--- Log opened Sun Aug 01 00:00:08 2021
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2021-08-01T03:01:16 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ 1billion!
2021-08-01T03:01:56 < kakium69> idk if I have seen other video with such views
2021-08-01T03:18:36 < Steffanx> Even 1.8 million replies.. damn
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2021-08-01T03:20:53 < Steffanx> There one with 9 billion views, kakium69 
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2021-08-01T07:10:34 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292727720876703744/871228292001312789/7-12-2019_387554.mp4
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2021-08-01T07:50:58 < GenTooMan> It looks like ST in the latest STMcube IDE broke the market place so people can't install things like subversion and git tools. etc.
2021-08-01T07:52:19 < GenTooMan> I mean can't easily install
2021-08-01T07:52:50 < jpa-> cube has market place now?
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2021-08-01T08:37:54 < octorian> Cube is just Eclipse.
2021-08-01T08:40:16 < octorian> Okay, yeah, Marketplace isn't working anymore in the latest update.
2021-08-01T08:40:48 < octorian> Thankfully all Marketplace does is help adding update sites for various packages, so my existing install still works fine.
2021-08-01T08:40:58 < octorian> But I can see how it would really harm the new setup experience.
2021-08-01T08:42:33 < octorian> Looking at the errors, it seems like maybe something with the URL or auth for Marketplace broke.
2021-08-01T08:43:26 < octorian> Okay, its not STM32CubeIDE's fault...
2021-08-01T08:43:39 < octorian> Just tried my "regular" Eclipse installation, and got the same error.
2021-08-01T08:43:45 < octorian> Maybe Marketplace is just broken right now.
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2021-08-01T10:04:39 < ventyl> nah
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2021-08-01T15:12:47 < GenTooMan> slight update looks like the eclipse market place web sight might be having issues. The scheduled maintenance on July 29 was completed and it is reporting the website is down for eclipse market place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39du_5Cz1M&pp=sAQA <-- updates 
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2021-08-01T15:22:08 < GenTooMan> this is of course problematic if you want to install anything that uses eclipse* URLs 
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2021-08-01T15:35:08 < Steffanx> Not the first time..
2021-08-01T15:37:58 < kakium69> did you know
2021-08-01T15:38:37 < kakium69> only 12% of copper in use is "virgin"
2021-08-01T15:39:21 < kakium69> everything else is recycled copper
2021-08-01T15:40:29 < BrainDamage> as if that matters for chemistry
2021-08-01T15:42:08 < kakium69> it doesn't
2021-08-01T15:42:33 < kakium69> but it affects how copper markets work
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2021-08-01T15:42:59 < BrainDamage> the more surprising thing is that a decent fraction of steel is mildly radioactive
2021-08-01T15:43:16 < BrainDamage> because they throw nuclear waste in the steel processing cycle
2021-08-01T15:45:09 < kakium69> some steel
2021-08-01T15:46:31 < kakium69> copper price is all time high now
2021-08-01T15:47:39 < specing> > because they throw nuclear waste in the steel processing cycle
2021-08-01T15:47:41 < specing> wat
2021-08-01T15:47:45 < specing> [citation needed]
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2021-08-01T15:49:18 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_radiation_accidents
2021-08-01T15:49:57 < kakium69> usually radiation sources are stolen or found and taken to local recycling for few quick bucks
2021-08-01T15:50:51 < kakium69> usually people involved die before stuff gets to steel cycle
2021-08-01T15:51:09 < kakium69> not always
2021-08-01T15:51:37 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal pick from them from wikipedia citation list
2021-08-01T15:54:58 < ventyl> ah, so it is not intentional
2021-08-01T15:55:21 < BrainDamage> well, it's intentional, just not by the legit recyclers
2021-08-01T15:56:01 < BrainDamage> it can be thrown there as a cheap illegal disposal method
2021-08-01T16:00:17 < BrainDamage> mind you, legit recyclers still do it, but at least ensure that the dilution among the scrap is enough to make it irrelevant
2021-08-01T16:00:39 < BrainDamage> ie for decommissioned reactors' steel
2021-08-01T16:00:55 < BrainDamage> see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306454919308096
2021-08-01T16:20:15 < kakium69> it far different than throwin cobalt60 in the mix
2021-08-01T16:23:49 < BrainDamage> fo' sho'
2021-08-01T16:37:28 < kakium69> reactor vessel is buried in the ground?
2021-08-01T16:37:51 < kakium69> I assume the whole primary side
2021-08-01T16:38:16 < ventyl> it is enclused in concrete containment
2021-08-01T16:45:51  * GenTooMan avoids saying "just add salt" to that.
2021-08-01T16:48:03 < kakium69> has any production nuclear reactors been yet fully decomisioned?
2021-08-01T16:50:29 < kakium69> *decommissioned
2021-08-01T16:51:53 < kakium69> ah it's 50year process
2021-08-01T16:52:46 < ventyl> there were some in USA and Canada, which are now completely restored and there is no sign of NPP being there before
2021-08-01T16:54:44 < kakium69> tsernobyl is interesting decommissioning
2021-08-01T17:08:30 < aandrew> wtf, why am I signed up to the https://primaria-calimanesti.ro/ mailing list?
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2021-08-01T17:15:19 < BrainDamage> jadew pulling a prank on you?
2021-08-01T17:19:08 < aandrew> that was kind of my guess too but could be my wife doing it 
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2021-08-01T18:48:01 < R2COM> aandrew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIYGFSONKbk&t=3s
2021-08-01T18:48:06 < R2COM> proud of your country?
2021-08-01T19:00:41 < jadew> lol aandrew, planning some water therapy?
2021-08-01T19:03:36 < jadew> R2COM, aandrew is not from the US
2021-08-01T19:09:18 < aandrew> R2COM: ... I'm not American
2021-08-01T19:10:17 < aandrew> this looks like modern gi joe
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2021-08-01T20:12:55 < kakium69> R2COM is most unpatriotic american
2021-08-01T20:14:59 < R2COM>  i just don't understand how the fuck is the video which supposed to be a US Army recruiting video be able to motivate young healthy guys to join the military by presenting a story about some little girl raised by two lesbian moms... this country is a complete joke now
2021-08-01T20:21:13 < kakium69> it's not
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2021-08-01T20:22:56 < jpa-> it's probably supposed to motivate young sexually insecure whatever-their-genders to join the military to satisfy their american need to shoot people, instead of going to nearest school to shoot people
2021-08-01T20:22:56 < kakium69> it's not intended to motivate anyone join but rather it's public image stunt
2021-08-01T20:23:00 < mawk> I use emacs or pycharm or jupyter R2COM 
2021-08-01T20:23:10 < mawk> lol jpa- 
2021-08-01T20:23:22 < kakium69> jpa- :o
2021-08-01T20:23:59 < kakium69> how many liters of suspension oil my 43mm kyb forks need?
2021-08-01T20:24:03 < R2COM> i wish there was a clown face icon in irc so i could paste it now
2021-08-01T20:24:12 < mawk> there is
2021-08-01T20:24:17 < kakium69> you can sens unicode emojis
2021-08-01T20:24:28 < mawk> 🤡
2021-08-01T20:24:30 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-01T20:25:00 < R2COM> oh cool
2021-08-01T20:25:04 < mawk> 🍆🤏
2021-08-01T20:25:18 < kakium69> oh yeah
2021-08-01T20:25:19 < kakium69> bbl>
2021-08-01T20:25:23 < mawk> lol
2021-08-01T20:26:40 < R2COM> mawk i managed to setup neovim under freebsd with all autocomplete, tree tag, dir browser and other cool stuff.. and even after highly pimped vim, i still feel that vscode is superior... just feels better dunno
2021-08-01T20:26:47 < ventyl> kakium69: doesn't workshop manual mention that?
2021-08-01T20:26:58 < mawk> in what way R2COM ?
2021-08-01T20:27:05 < mawk> I never used vim anyway
2021-08-01T20:27:37 < R2COM> for example... mouseover events over the lines connecting code blocks..the way how they dynamically highlight etc.. you see? its hard to describe it..but it just feels so much more modern in vscode
2021-08-01T20:27:56 < R2COM> minimap is really cool... i mean...everything
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2021-08-01T20:29:32 < R2COM> so i moved back my stm32 development to win10... and kicad stuff will be in win10 as well
2021-08-01T20:29:41 < R2COM> although i got working setup in freebsd
2021-08-01T20:29:59 < R2COM> dunno...even when all works, ...it just feels more comfortable here in win10
2021-08-01T20:30:40 < R2COM> mawk you use emacs with vim keymode?
2021-08-01T20:30:49 < mawk> no
2021-08-01T20:30:52 < mawk> just emacs
2021-08-01T20:31:02 < R2COM> never used emacs.. 
2021-08-01T20:31:14 < R2COM> can it do shit like... "press r and then character, and character changed" etc?
2021-08-01T20:31:18 < R2COM> or cc to change line fast
2021-08-01T20:31:24 < R2COM> like...is it productive even
2021-08-01T20:56:22 < mawk> of coursz
2021-08-01T20:56:37 < mawk> all cli utilities in linux use emacs shortcuts R2COM 
2021-08-01T20:56:52 < mawk> ctrl-a ctrl-e alt-a alt-e and so on
2021-08-01T20:56:59 < mawk> all of this is from emacs
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2021-08-01T21:25:22 < Steffanx> Hmm
2021-08-01T21:28:03 < BrainDamage> the problem is that emacs doesn't stop at few shortcuts and it ends up with chords
2021-08-01T21:28:19 < BrainDamage> 3rd and 4th tier modifiers
2021-08-01T21:29:00 < BrainDamage> I'm ok with shortcuts for most common operations, but past that i just resort to command palette
2021-08-01T21:33:05 < ventyl> R2COM: did you at least found out if there is any way to go to virtual desktop directly?
2021-08-01T21:36:36 < kakium69> ventyl: too lazy to change irc to desktop and open the manual
2021-08-01T21:37:46 < ventyl> kakium69: i'd expect somewhere around 800ml each. mine 38 accept ~500ml
2021-08-01T21:38:11 < kakium69> so I need to buy 2x 1litres
2021-08-01T21:38:41 < ventyl> well, one definitely won't be enough
2021-08-01T21:39:08 < ventyl> unless you have some funky hi-tech new fork, which contains extremely small amount of oil
2021-08-01T21:39:12 < BrainDamage> use the rest for oil wrestling
2021-08-01T21:39:18 < ventyl> mine's from mid '80s
2021-08-01T21:41:23 < kakium69> https://vapor95.com/collections/brand-new/products/going-online-tee?variant=39584186269744
2021-08-01T21:46:33 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5L3JwHiGp0
2021-08-01T21:48:11 < kakium69> ventyl: 476cm3 per side
2021-08-01T21:48:21 < kakium69> they have it figured out
2021-08-01T21:48:34 < kakium69> just pour half of bottle to one and half to another
2021-08-01T21:50:11 < ventyl> kakium69: in mine, there's and aid, that if fork is fully extended, then oil should reach some 105mm below the top of the fork
2021-08-01T21:50:27 < kakium69> 107mm
2021-08-01T21:51:19 < kakium69> Level (from the top of the innertube, with the inner tube fullycompressed, and without thefork spring)
2021-08-01T21:51:22 < Steffanx> 106mm
2021-08-01T21:51:44 < ventyl> yeah, something like that
2021-08-01T21:52:18 < kakium69> do I need special tools like rod holders and pullers and shit
2021-08-01T21:52:30 < kakium69> I figured I need the seal press tool
2021-08-01T21:53:03 < ventyl> and I fooled you, bandit has 41mm tube
2021-08-01T21:53:37 < kakium69> misinformation
2021-08-01T21:54:15 < ventyl> I didn't use any special tube besides seal press "tool"
2021-08-01T21:54:34 < ventyl> s/tube/tool/
2021-08-01T21:55:45 < ventyl> hm, you may need rod holder if you are going to remove inner tube
2021-08-01T21:56:15 < kakium69> am I?
2021-08-01T21:56:20 < kakium69> I have leaking seal
2021-08-01T21:56:27 < kakium69> and one tube probs empty
2021-08-01T21:56:36 < kakium69> it was wet as I bought it
2021-08-01T21:56:39 < ventyl> which seal?
2021-08-01T21:58:06 < kakium69> dust seal is broken
2021-08-01T21:58:21 < kakium69> and I assume the seal bellow it is too
2021-08-01T21:58:53 < ventyl> hm, for this job you don't need rod holder, IIRC
2021-08-01T21:58:58 < kakium69> brake rotor on that side is clogged that is sign of oil
2021-08-01T21:59:16 < ventyl> you'd need it only if you wanted to disassemble inner tube further
2021-08-01T21:59:37 < kakium69> can I flush the tube clean somehow
2021-08-01T21:59:46 < kakium69> of any water etc
2021-08-01T22:01:03 < ventyl> I used brake cleaner and let them sit for some time to dry it off
2021-08-01T22:01:28 < ventyl> and yeah, no tools, it took me like 10 minutes to remove and disassemble them
2021-08-01T22:01:43 < kakium69> you pulled inner tubes?
2021-08-01T22:01:47 < ventyl> I don't have any besides hammer and chisel
2021-08-01T22:02:47 < ventyl> well, it is worth to remove dust lip first and then hammer oil seal with slider ring by reverse hammering inner tube out
2021-08-01T22:02:59 < ventyl> you want to buy kit, which has those new
2021-08-01T22:05:09 < kakium69> https://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/9828495/SKF-etuhaarukan-oljytiiviste-ja-polysuoja-musta-KAYABA-mm-43
2021-08-01T22:05:22 < kakium69> 2x this
2021-08-01T22:07:48 < ventyl> these are just seals, if fork is dry, you might need to replace slider rings too
2021-08-01T22:07:57 < ventyl> as they will be worn out
2021-08-01T22:07:58 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-01T22:08:14 < kakium69> it's not completelly dry
2021-08-01T22:08:32 < kakium69> but it's getting there
2021-08-01T22:09:06 < kakium69> it's not like it has been without oil for 15years
2021-08-01T22:09:12 < ventyl> and yeah, on top of oil seal, there's wir circlip
2021-08-01T22:09:23 < ventyl> don't forget to remove it :)
2021-08-01T22:09:27 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-01T22:11:36 < ventyl> haven't you sold one bike earlier this year because it is not worth of riding it during two-month summer?
2021-08-01T22:13:23 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-01T22:13:40 < kakium69> because it's not worth repairing during 2month summer
2021-08-01T22:13:51 < kakium69> also I had my eye at 1000cc
2021-08-01T22:14:04 < kakium69> but suddenly 20% and more price increases
2021-08-01T22:16:16 < ventyl> stuff I have my eye on still holds the same price
2021-08-01T22:16:59 < kakium69> so did R6
2021-08-01T22:17:51 < ventyl> the problem is more like there are no bikes to be bought
2021-08-01T22:18:37 < kakium69> very limited supply
2021-08-01T22:20:47 < ventyl> 979 EUR
2021-08-01T22:20:56 < ventyl> price the same, but only one available for sale
2021-08-01T22:21:45 < kakium69> waas
2021-08-01T22:21:54 < kakium69> what is so inexpensives
2021-08-01T22:22:54 < ventyl> 1995 Suzuki RF400RV
2021-08-01T22:23:22 < ventyl> but I am not sure if the offer is even up to date. web has (c) 2004
2021-08-01T22:24:21 < kakium69> cool bike
2021-08-01T22:24:44 < kakium69> is it 2stroke?
2021-08-01T22:24:48 < ventyl> hah
2021-08-01T22:25:14 < ventyl> 4 stroke inline 4 / 16 valve with variable valve timing
2021-08-01T22:25:37 < kakium69> variable valve timing waas
2021-08-01T22:26:29 < ventyl> exhaust cam can change profile
2021-08-01T22:26:56 < kakium69> why this bike?
2021-08-01T22:27:03 < ventyl> for bandits, it was an option from MY1993, RF400s have it by default
2021-08-01T22:27:15 < kakium69> economy?
2021-08-01T22:27:27 < ventyl> well, I like the styling of Suzuki RF
2021-08-01T22:27:56 < ventyl> and as I am slightly disabled, I need light bike
2021-08-01T22:31:30 < kakium69> my R6 is lighter
2021-08-01T22:31:47 < kakium69> couple of kilos but anyway
2021-08-01T22:32:12 < ventyl> yeah, bikes with aluminium frames tend to be a bit lighter
2021-08-01T22:32:24 < kakium69> 181 dry
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2021-08-01T22:32:50 < ventyl> bandit is like 176 dry?
2021-08-01T22:32:57 < kakium69> bandit is light
2021-08-01T22:33:06 < ventyl> not all of them
2021-08-01T22:33:15 < ventyl> early 600s were heavy as fuck
2021-08-01T22:33:17 < ventyl> >200
2021-08-01T22:36:26 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R7
2021-08-01T22:36:34 < kakium69> 1999!
2021-08-01T22:36:37 < kakium69> look at that thing
2021-08-01T22:37:50 < kakium69> r7 is back now I noticed
2021-08-01T22:37:56 < kakium69> 2021 model
2021-08-01T22:38:06 < ventyl> neighbour owns FZX750
2021-08-01T22:38:13 < ventyl> it will probably have the same engine
2021-08-01T22:38:57 < ventyl> I don't particularly like styling of faired motorbikes, RF is the only one I like
2021-08-01T22:39:14 < kakium69> new r7 has same engine than MT-07
2021-08-01T22:39:15 < ventyl> it reminds me of Ferrari 512Tr
2021-08-01T22:40:22 < kakium69> is it normal that my R6 wont pull wheelie with just throttle?
2021-08-01T22:40:40 < ventyl> probably not
2021-08-01T22:40:58 < ventyl> in very ideal conditions, I can pull wheelie with just throttle on bandit
2021-08-01T22:41:04 < PaulFertser> On what gear and speed?
2021-08-01T22:41:14 < kakium69> PaulFertser: 1st
2021-08-01T22:41:21 < kakium69> full acceleration
2021-08-01T22:41:46 < PaulFertser> kakium69: are you sure clutch is not slipping?
2021-08-01T22:41:51 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-01T22:42:11 < kakium69> ventyl: bandit is upright riding position?
2021-08-01T22:42:53 < kakium69> my ex R6 had upright configuration and reduced gears
2021-08-01T22:42:54 < ventyl> kakium69: depends on handlebar type. it is possible to fit clip-ons
2021-08-01T22:43:07 < ventyl> but default riding pos is upright
2021-08-01T22:43:19 < kakium69> it did pull wheelie
2021-08-01T22:43:44 < kakium69> also noticed that with full tank it pulled wheelie even easier
2021-08-01T22:44:21 < ventyl> well, once or twice I managed to feel front wheel to loose contact with road I was leaned toward the front to make the bike more agile
2021-08-01T22:44:44 < ventyl> yet with 43kW you can to wheelie only on 1st and only until rev limiter cuts you off
2021-08-01T22:45:02 < ventyl> which is at like 60km/h
2021-08-01T22:46:17 < kakium69> R6 is supposed to have 106hp at rear wheel
2021-08-01T22:46:40 < ventyl> are you sure, that the figure is wheel HP?
2021-08-01T22:47:23 < kakium69> 79.7 kW (106.9 hp) @ 12,500 rpm (rear wheel)[20]
2021-08-01T22:48:14 < kakium69> wait.. how fast does bandit go on first gear ventyl?
2021-08-01T22:48:45 < ventyl> 60km/h at most
2021-08-01T22:48:55 < ventyl> maybe even less
2021-08-01T22:49:53 < kakium69> I think R6 goes like 100kmh
2021-08-01T22:51:24 < kakium69> usually I get unintended wheelie when I upshift 1->2
2021-08-01T22:52:13 < kakium69> when I do it hastly without lifting throttle
2021-08-01T22:55:30 < mawk> well it's the same in the end BrainDamage 
2021-08-01T22:55:39 < mawk> learning a command and learning the right modifiers
2021-08-01T22:56:24 < mawk> also you can always do M-x and type your command in full name in emacs
2021-08-01T22:59:41 < BrainDamage> mawk: it isn't, a command can have multiple aliases and fuzzy completion on the palette
2021-08-01T23:00:09 < BrainDamage> and i can search by cathegory too using successive search
2021-08-01T23:01:06 < ventyl> kakium69: gearing commander says, that max. is like 68.5 when rev limiter kicks in
2021-08-01T23:01:10 < mawk> yeah I guess
2021-08-01T23:01:37 < kakium69> I did calculations and R6 is pretty much ~100kmh
2021-08-01T23:01:41 < kakium69> 1st
2021-08-01T23:02:26 < ventyl> https://www.gearingcommander.com/index.htm
2021-08-01T23:07:06 < kakium69> interesting
2021-08-01T23:07:25 < kakium69> maximum power at 80kmh
2021-08-01T23:07:55 < kakium69> it takes a bit power to power wheelie at 80kmh
2021-08-01T23:08:22 < ventyl> well, you have to rotate like 300kg
2021-08-01T23:08:34 < ventyl> on ~1.5 m lever
2021-08-01T23:09:21 < ventyl> which gives you roughly 4500Nm of torque required
2021-08-01T23:09:53 < ventyl> it will be much less, because of weight distribution
2021-08-01T23:10:21 < kakium69> cg at 1.5meter height?
2021-08-01T23:10:51 < ventyl> no, distance from rear wheel axle
2021-08-01T23:11:08 < ventyl> because during wheelie, you are rotating the whole bike around it
2021-08-01T23:11:45 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-01T23:12:10 < ventyl> hm, it will come together as vectors, so the calculation is not so simple
2021-08-01T23:12:16 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-01T23:12:18 < mawk> what are you tryiing to compute
2021-08-01T23:12:25 < kakium69> pulling power wheelies
2021-08-01T23:12:28 < mawk> I like vectors and I like calculations
2021-08-01T23:12:30 < mawk> tell me
2021-08-01T23:12:32 < mawk> ah
2021-08-01T23:12:34 < mawk> what's a wheelie
2021-08-01T23:12:38 < mawk> standing on one wheel?
2021-08-01T23:12:48 < mawk> and power is when you put gas in addition to being on one wheel?
2021-08-01T23:12:55 < ventyl> calculate, how much kakium has to pull his bike in order to crash the bike doing wheelie
2021-08-01T23:13:13 < ventyl> wheelie is riding the bike on rear wheel
2021-08-01T23:13:21 < mawk> and power?
2021-08-01T23:13:31 < kakium69> power wheelie = pulling wheelie without clutch kick
2021-08-01T23:13:37 < kakium69> *clutch bomb
2021-08-01T23:13:49 < ventyl> fucking raspberry
2021-08-01T23:13:50 < kakium69> *clutch dump
2021-08-01T23:13:54 < mawk> well now I have to ask what is a clutch, so I will rather go on youtube and look for "power wheelie"
2021-08-01T23:13:57 < ventyl> i finally managed to make GPIO work
2021-08-01T23:15:10 < mawk> clutch = embrayage ?
2021-08-01T23:15:17 < mawk> wikipedia says yes
2021-08-01T23:15:18 < mawk> ok
2021-08-01T23:15:32 < mawk> so the wheel isn't free that's what it means kakium69 ?
2021-08-01T23:15:35 < ventyl> clutch = that thing muricans don't know how to use
2021-08-01T23:15:38 < mawk> lol
2021-08-01T23:15:46 < mawk> the thing in manual cars
2021-08-01T23:15:57 < ventyl> and soviet cars
2021-08-01T23:16:13 < kakium69> we can forget the clutch and focus on engine power
2021-08-01T23:16:42 < BrainDamage> mawk: when you accelerate you want the weight shifted on the wheels that are applying power, to increase friction and prevent skidding
2021-08-01T23:16:51 < mawk> yes
2021-08-01T23:17:17 < kakium69> yes that is why people must wheelie
2021-08-01T23:17:30 < PaulFertser> mawk: clutch wheelie is possible because with the clutch disengaged you can get high revs and then drop the clutch fast, so all the torque is there to lift the front up.
2021-08-01T23:17:47 < ventyl> or to damage the clutch :>
2021-08-01T23:18:03 < BrainDamage> since that's the rear wheel universally for a motorbike, by lifting the front wheel you ensure all weigh is applied on the back
2021-08-01T23:18:19 < kakium69> :O
2021-08-01T23:18:22 < BrainDamage> and with higher angles, the more the force it has to load on the vertical
2021-08-01T23:18:32 < mawk> I see
2021-08-01T23:19:18 < BrainDamage> the problem is that you have the aerodynamic drag in play
2021-08-01T23:19:30 < mawk> let's not add the air yet
2021-08-01T23:19:33 < mawk> too complex
2021-08-01T23:19:35 < mawk> friction is enough
2021-08-01T23:20:17 < kakium69> I think CG getting raised higher is more problematic in any sane speeds
2021-08-01T23:22:28 < ventyl> changing CG may ruin bikes ability to corner properly
2021-08-01T23:22:41 < ventyl> but IMO the higher it is, the better bike corners
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2021-08-01T23:23:14 < BrainDamage> the higher it is, the easier it is to swing it like an inverted pendulum
2021-08-01T23:23:23 < BrainDamage> but also the more unstable it is
2021-08-01T23:23:38 < ventyl> you can tame stability by front fork geometry
2021-08-01T23:23:40 < BrainDamage> because any small solecitation from the bottom will make higher swings on the top
2021-08-01T23:24:06 < ventyl> and then with most bikes you have gyroscopic effect of rotating engine
2021-08-01T23:24:47 < kakium69> mawk: 80kw, 80kmh, mass of 300kg is 1.5meters front of contact at height of 0.8meters
2021-08-01T23:24:58 < mawk> I'd say just do dimensional analysis kakium69 
2021-08-01T23:25:01 < mawk> it usually works
2021-08-01T23:25:29 < PaulFertser> https://xkcd.com/687/
2021-08-01T23:25:30 < BrainDamage> that one is a bit misunderstood, the gyroscopic effect is what steers the front handbar/fork and that one in turn keeps it stable
2021-08-01T23:25:54 < BrainDamage> lock the front handlebar and it'll crash no matter the speed
2021-08-01T23:26:02 < mawk> lol PaulFertser 
2021-08-01T23:27:41 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: btw, I did a test on a push bike, added a rod to make it impossible to turn handlebar to the left (from the centre position). And even low-speed right turns became really problematic.
2021-08-01T23:28:40 < kakium69> I wonder if they set the bike just about to wheelie
2021-08-01T23:29:02 < kakium69> in order to make it easy and efficient to accelerate as fast as possible
2021-08-01T23:29:33 < kakium69> as the point of front wheel skimming the road is when acceleration is highest
2021-08-01T23:31:31 < kakium69> and that is what it does usually
2021-08-01T23:31:47 < kakium69> front wheel is bouncing between road and air
2021-08-01T23:32:22 < ventyl> PaulFertser: even twist of the wrist demonstrates that (as a matter of busting the myth that it is sufficient to transfer CG to corner the bike)
2021-08-01T23:32:37 < PaulFertser> Do you have a nicely functioning handlebar damper kakium69 ?
2021-08-01T23:32:50 < kakium69> no dampers
2021-08-01T23:33:01 < kakium69> fully organic
2021-08-01T23:33:20 < PaulFertser> ventyl: well, one thing is looking at some old video with a motor bike, and another is an easily reproducible test that anyone can do in no time to feel that it's true even for low speeds.
2021-08-01T23:33:21 < ventyl> bouncing wheel w/o damper would result in crash
2021-08-01T23:33:40 < kakium69> it doesn't
2021-08-01T23:33:40 < PaulFertser> kakium69: it's year 2021, please do the right thing and install it.
2021-08-01T23:34:37 < BrainDamage> unstable crotch rocket
2021-08-01T23:34:47 < kakium69> well balanced bike doesn't need such things
2021-08-01T23:35:04 < zyp> rip kakium69 
2021-08-01T23:35:15 < PaulFertser> kakium69: one day it's all fine and another your front has not enough tyre pressure or your bearings got looser.
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2021-08-01T23:35:29 < kakium69> I have never seen a tank slapper
2021-08-01T23:35:32 < PaulFertser> Or just the luck is not on your side and tank slappers get more furious than usual.
2021-08-01T23:35:46 < kakium69> my R6 has 0 tank slapper
2021-08-01T23:36:50 < PaulFertser> You said your fork is now lacking oil so not enough damping there too.
2021-08-01T23:37:08 < kakium69> still superb
2021-08-01T23:37:21 < kakium69> aestethics
2021-08-01T23:37:52 < kakium69> I don't think that translates to tank slappers
2021-08-01T23:38:00 < kakium69> it's about rotational masses
2021-08-01T23:38:32 < PaulFertser> Don't be silly, there's a reason all new road legal sportbikes have factory dampers.
2021-08-01T23:39:45 < kakium69> ebay.com?
2021-08-01T23:39:56 < kakium69> shipped from china
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2021-08-01T23:43:55 < kakium69> I have tried to induce steering oscillations
2021-08-01T23:44:18 < kakium69> no oscillations available at my speed ranges
2021-08-01T23:44:23 < ventyl> well, they are not there, until they are
2021-08-01T23:44:30 < ventyl> and then it is too late to be sorry
2021-08-01T23:44:43 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-WXR-0vLw
2021-08-01T23:45:13 < kakium69> bad tyre job is what I know to cause bike to go weird
2021-08-01T23:45:19 < kakium69> from experience
2021-08-01T23:45:29 < PaulFertser> Bumpy road and when your front wheel touches the ground at a slightly wrong is usually what starts that.
2021-08-01T23:46:46 < PaulFertser> slightly wrong angle
2021-08-01T23:46:59 < ventyl> in my case it was bad bearing
2021-08-01T23:47:17 < ventyl> found out post mortem
2021-08-01T23:50:25 < kakium69> that video is really good explanation
2021-08-01T23:53:02 < kakium69> PaulFertser: if bike is perfectly balanced and a-ok it's the rider interaction that starts it
2021-08-01T23:53:18 < kakium69> or sustains it
2021-08-01T23:54:19 < kakium69> trying to counter it makes it worse
2021-08-01T23:56:46 < kakium69> I rather spend the moneys to getting suspension fixed first
2021-08-01T23:58:44 < PaulFertser> kakium69: but can you be sure your bike is perfectly balanced at all times?
--- Day changed Mon Aug 02 2021
2021-08-02T00:09:15 < kakium69> how do you know if your bike is jacked up with damper to hide it?
2021-08-02T00:10:39 < kakium69> I surelly feel there is something wrong with how my bike rides now
2021-08-02T00:10:58 < kakium69> I think I need to check tyre pressures
2021-08-02T00:12:10 < kakium69> it feels a bit less nimble to turn than earlier
2021-08-02T00:14:24 < kakium69> front dampening also doesn't seem correct
2021-08-02T00:15:39 < kakium69> front brake has reduced power and cause was visually concluded yesterday as I saw clogged rotor
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2021-08-02T00:20:41 < kakium69> this one also doesn't have loose head like last one had
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2021-08-02T00:34:36 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M99i2Fu3OpjHhas4Celoo_N5P0mbsE-H/view?usp=sharing there it is
2021-08-02T00:35:26 < kakium69> I know my bike is not a-ok
2021-08-02T00:36:04 < kakium69> but because of my last bike I know what things are not a-ok
2021-08-02T00:45:11 < kakium69> only thing I have yet to experience is wheel bearing failure
2021-08-02T00:53:48 < Steffanx> So get it a-ok kakium69 
2021-08-02T00:57:59 < qyx> I am going a-sleep now
2021-08-02T01:11:34 < Steffanx> Have a-good sleep, qyx
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2021-08-02T02:06:17 < ventyl> > Failed to write memory and, additionally, failed to find out where
2021-08-02T02:20:28 < kakium69> openocd
2021-08-02T02:20:31 < kakium69> rite
2021-08-02T02:21:40 < ventyl> gdb
2021-08-02T02:21:57 < kakium69> rite
2021-08-02T02:22:03 < ventyl> i am trying to boot secondary cpu on rp2040, no luck
2021-08-02T02:22:11 < ventyl> it doesn't give fuck
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2021-08-02T02:36:49 < kakium69> openocd?
2021-08-02T02:39:39 < ventyl> rp2040
2021-08-02T02:39:45 < ventyl> but I managed to do that
2021-08-02T02:39:50 < ventyl> so, GN for today
2021-08-02T02:48:47 < kakium69> that message is for sure from openocd
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2021-08-02T03:58:45 < Laurenceb_> holy fucking shit
2021-08-02T03:59:06 < Laurenceb_> chris chan just got arrested on livestream for livestreaming himself fucking his mum
2021-08-02T04:07:35 < Laurenceb_> or maybe I got rused by 4chan
2021-08-02T04:07:41 < octorian> I have absolutely no idea who that is.  Probably a good thing. 
2021-08-02T04:11:09 < Laurenceb_> yeah apparently its real and there is video, not clicking that shit
2021-08-02T04:11:15 < Laurenceb_> internet drama went too far
2021-08-02T04:12:02 < Laurenceb_> >if he goes to jail there will be no more episodes of sonichu
2021-08-02T04:14:00 < octorian> I'm far more concerned right now with the great MCU shortage. (and some related parts too, but those might be easier to get)
2021-08-02T04:14:45 < Laurenceb_> https://encyclopediadramatica.online/Chris-chan
2021-08-02T04:15:07 < octorian> I'm currently in the prototype/firmware-dev phase of a project that's using the STM32L052K8, and I feel like I want to switch to the STM32L072 to get a USB DFU bootloader and a little more headroom.  But I can't really buy *either* right now, beyond what I currently have in my parts bin.
2021-08-02T04:18:31 < octorian> (I'd consider other parts too, but no idea if they'd actually be a better choice...  Anything beyond the L0 line might require an I2C EEPROM and an external crystal, among other things)
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2021-08-02T04:26:55 < octorian> If availability is likely to be similar once sanity returns, I wonder if I should attempt to procure some of those MCUs at "gouge" prices for my next prototype revision. (though I have no idea where is safe to do that from)
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2021-08-02T05:44:08 < R2COM> <ventyl> R2COM: did you at least found out if there is any way to go to virtual desktop directly?
2021-08-02T05:44:32 < R2COM> not with official win10, have to install some custom soft, ill pass for now
2021-08-02T05:53:08 < R2COM> do not overbuy parts
2021-08-02T05:53:24 < R2COM> one of the things which makes chip shortage worse is faggots overbuying parts
2021-08-02T05:53:29 < R2COM> and companies cant keep up
2021-08-02T05:53:38 < R2COM> buy as many as you need, no more
2021-08-02T06:05:51 < R2COM> so i looked at emacs, i dont feel like i like its keybindings
2021-08-02T06:06:00 < R2COM> i think vim is superior and more productive
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2021-08-02T11:14:28 < mawk> PaulFertser: is openocd abandoned or something?
2021-08-02T11:15:31 < mawk> the main page redirects to a malware site
2021-08-02T11:15:41 < mawk> or maybe you already knew
2021-08-02T11:16:44 < jpa-> just hacked probably
2021-08-02T11:17:51 < mawk> subpages still work
2021-08-02T11:18:15 < jpa-> if you disable javascript, front page will work also
2021-08-02T11:18:20 < jpa-> it has   <script>window.location.replace("https://maawretdowdoorkphocu.tk/help/?15131619432237");window.location.href = "https://maawretdowdoorkphocu.tk/help/?15131619432237";</script>   in beginning
2021-08-02T11:18:43 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-02T11:18:48 < jpa-> i'll report it to sourceforge as apparently it is hosted there
2021-08-02T11:21:08 < mawk> no other site hosted on sf seems affected it seems
2021-08-02T11:21:27 < mawk> someone found write credentials to the site repo
2021-08-02T11:21:57 < ventyl> maybe not just to site repo and there will be juicy rootkit embedded wich each download of openocd
2021-08-02T11:22:25 < jpa-> or just some broken script at the webserver; but yeah, i wouldn't trust the downloads from that webserver
2021-08-02T11:23:47 < ventyl> hackers embedded it for us, so slashdot doesn't have to bother and try it on its own anymore
2021-08-02T11:24:02 < jpa-> the openocd site is running WordPress 3.3.2, released in 2012 :)
2021-08-02T11:24:30 < mawk> lol
2021-08-02T11:24:33 < ventyl> oh
2021-08-02T11:24:51 < ventyl> so the right question is: why did it take them so long?
2021-08-02T11:24:57 < mawk> I downloaded the source from https://repo.or.cz/w/openocd.git
2021-08-02T11:25:53 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Quit: The sky is falling.]
2021-08-02T11:26:25 < mawk> whose last commit is by mister tarek
2021-08-02T11:26:34 < mawk> but that doesn't say anything, git history can be rewritten
2021-08-02T11:33:58 < mawk> I had to add "examples.api/Makefile" to .git/info/exclude in the jimctl submodule otherwise the openocd version string contained "dirty" and I don't like dirty things
2021-08-02T11:34:41 < jpa-> mawk: don't lie, we've all seen the video of you and your dirty things
2021-08-02T11:34:54 < mawk> :((
2021-08-02T11:58:49 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-08-02T12:23:16 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-08-02T12:23:56 < tct> suuuuup
2021-08-02T12:28:42 < jpa-> looks like openocd.org is fixed now
2021-08-02T12:32:41 < mawk> I hate eclipse
2021-08-02T12:32:46 < tct> you should
2021-08-02T12:33:38 < mawk> I just spent around 2 hours trying to get eclipse/sw4stm32 take in the newest openocd and gcc
2021-08-02T12:34:14 < Laurenceb> tfw latest sonichu drama is too cringe to watch
2021-08-02T12:34:51 < tct> mawk, just don´t use eclipse.
2021-08-02T12:34:56 < tct> mawk, just use clion or something else.
2021-08-02T12:35:04 < ventyl> mawk: is there any benefit of using sw4stm32 over, let's say, notepad++ ?
2021-08-02T12:35:45 < tct> clion works great
2021-08-02T12:36:06 < Laurenceb> holy shit nick want cringeee https://twitter.com/FLF_Nick/status/1400348139895365632
2021-08-02T12:36:09 < Laurenceb> *went
2021-08-02T12:36:54 < tct> who´s nick
2021-08-02T12:37:05 < Laurenceb> I guess fusion was gay from the start - furiously colliding two Hydrogen nuclei is pretty homo
2021-08-02T12:37:30 < Laurenceb> tct: some guy I used to talk to about weird energy schemes, he has now launched a company based on the idea
2021-08-02T12:38:26 < Laurenceb> >Founder, CEO and CTO 
2021-08-02T12:38:26 < Laurenceb>  @FLFusion . (he/they)
2021-08-02T12:38:28 < tct> how is this related to secuallity?
2021-08-02T12:38:32 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-08-02T12:38:36 < Laurenceb> >he/they 
2021-08-02T12:38:43 < Laurenceb> wait wtf
2021-08-02T12:39:02 < Laurenceb> >when ur half trans
2021-08-02T12:40:38 < mawk> no ventyl 
2021-08-02T12:40:42 < mawk> but that's what my boss wants me to use
2021-08-02T12:40:48 < mawk> we don't use cmake tct 
2021-08-02T12:42:19 < ventyl> ah, if boss pays for two hours of fucking with gcc, then ok
2021-08-02T12:42:52 < ventyl> in such case it is `your stupid choice will cost you moneyz`
2021-08-02T12:42:55 < Laurenceb> kek if real https://twitter.com/IOPPublishing/status/1409880243926601731
2021-08-02T12:43:05 < Laurenceb> but its almost certainly fake
2021-08-02T12:43:25 < Laurenceb> >when u get 4chan to review ur paper
2021-08-02T12:44:11 < tct> mawk, CLion has Makefile support for like a year
2021-08-02T12:44:20 < mawk> lies
2021-08-02T12:44:25 < tct> no
2021-08-02T12:44:34 < mawk> hmm
2021-08-02T12:44:40 < tct> https://www.jetbrains.com/help/clion/makefiles-support.html
2021-08-02T12:44:45 < tct> https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2020/06/makefile-projects-in-clion/
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2021-08-02T12:45:32 < mawk> nice
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2021-08-02T12:47:44 < tct> yeah, I know my clion shit
2021-08-02T12:47:49 < tct> :p
2021-08-02T12:48:21 < ventyl> so, it was modern and then it degraded to support legacy shit, right?
2021-08-02T12:49:45 < tct> I wouldn´t say that but I understand why you do.
2021-08-02T12:49:48 < tct> I disagree firmly
2021-08-02T12:53:36 < ventyl> at least there is no autohell
2021-08-02T13:01:39 < jpa-> using NTCs as high-bandwidth digipot by having another resistor heat them up - ridiculous or awesome idea?
2021-08-02T13:02:06 < Laurenceb> keeek I found PC physics https://twitter.com/kareem_carr/status/1414775432096927748
2021-08-02T13:02:24 < Laurenceb> worse than emdrive
2021-08-02T13:02:36 < tct> jpa-, what kind of advantage do you see in that?
2021-08-02T13:03:09 < jpa-> tct: higher bandwidth than digipot chips & isolated from the control circuit
2021-08-02T13:03:39 < tct> I´m intrigued
2021-08-02T13:03:44 < tct> might run some tests
2021-08-02T13:03:57 < tct> or did you already do that? :p
2021-08-02T13:04:16 < jpa-> no, i came up with the idea 5 minutes ago and decided to ask the experts
2021-08-02T13:04:30 < tct> ok, lets reach out to stvn then
2021-08-02T13:04:41 < Laurenceb> keeekkk why did I know this was coming https://twitter.com/afrittspenniman/status/1412530870955642886
2021-08-02T13:05:34 < tct> is anyone in here actually interested and/or clicking on the content provided by Laurenceb? I´m just asking because if that is not the case we could just tell Laurenceb to stop posting this kind of stuff in here.
2021-08-02T13:05:51 < Laurenceb> sorry I'll shut up and head back to 4chan
2021-08-02T13:06:09 < tct> as long as you don´t head back to the EU
2021-08-02T13:06:30 < tct> why did you leave again?
2021-08-02T13:06:30 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-08-02T13:07:39 < tct> it was an honest question.
2021-08-02T13:11:27 < ventyl> whee, cmake can now create self-extracting packages on its own
2021-08-02T13:18:12 < tct> ventyl, couldn´t cpack do that for a very long time?
2021-08-02T13:18:24 < tct> ventyl, maybe not - link? I am interested in this.
2021-08-02T13:19:38 < ventyl> tct: it seems to be undocumented, but if you set CPACK_GENERATOR to STGZ, it will create self-extracting shellscript
2021-08-02T13:22:25 < tct> ventyl, I indeed don´t see it in the official docs but somehow it shows up here: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v2.8.12/cpack.html#gen:STGZ
2021-08-02T13:23:05 < ventyl> ok, so that's why I thought it is a new feature
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2021-08-02T13:56:00 < PaulFertser> mawk: what page?
2021-08-02T13:56:14 < BrainDamage> jpa-: re ntc, it was done in the past, but suffer from nonlinearity, a more popular solution was led + ldr, you can look for similar tricks in audio compressor feedback circuits
2021-08-02T13:57:32 < PaulFertser> mawk: looks like it was SF.net issue?
2021-08-02T13:58:24 < jpa-> BrainDamage: yeah, i've seen LDRs being used but the cadmium ban has made them disappear
2021-08-02T13:58:40 < jpa-> BrainDamage: do you mean nonlinearity relative to temperature, or relative to signal voltage?
2021-08-02T13:58:53 < BrainDamage> yes :p 
2021-08-02T13:59:16 < BrainDamage> mostly temp, but voltage to a lesser degree
2021-08-02T13:59:22 < jpa-> hmm, good to know
2021-08-02T13:59:36 < BrainDamage> you'd need to strongly bias to a high temp to avoid the latter
2021-08-02T14:00:09 < BrainDamage> a common trick to linearize them is to put a regular resistor in parallel
2021-08-02T14:00:32 < BrainDamage> but if your application uses a micro, I guess you could slap the curve in the mcu and precompensate
2021-08-02T14:01:44 < BrainDamage> I think as idea is doable, but it might take a bit of tweaking to get a satisfactory perf
2021-08-02T14:02:54 < BrainDamage> you could also take a page from optocouplers and sandwitch the heating resistor between two ntc and put one in a feedback network to linearize the behaviour
2021-08-02T14:03:44 < BrainDamage> high bias + parallel resistor should take care of signal's nonlinearity, and high bias + feedback for control signal
2021-08-02T14:04:21 < BrainDamage> the feedback would also help you ignore environment variations, since ambient temp impacts your values
2021-08-02T14:04:32 < BrainDamage> as in directly sums
2021-08-02T14:05:54 < BrainDamage> mmm, actually, if you make the other arm of the pot another ntc, ambient temp will be auto compensated, and signal's self heating compensated to at least a 1st degree
2021-08-02T14:06:31 < BrainDamage> so scratch what I said, you might be able to get it right 1st time without fiddling
2021-08-02T14:09:20 < mawk> it was the main page PaulFertser 
2021-08-02T14:09:22 < mawk> /
2021-08-02T14:09:40 < jpa-> heh, takes half a watt to heat a tiny 3x3 mm PCB island to 80°C
2021-08-02T14:10:13 < jpa-> but thermal time constant is promisingly small, it gets between 60°C and 80°C in less than 10 seconds
2021-08-02T14:10:15 < mawk> island = isolated by fiberglass and air on all sides?
2021-08-02T14:10:50 < mawk> PaulFertser: it was redirecting to https://maawretdowdoorkphocu[donotclick].tk/help/?15131619432237
2021-08-02T14:11:27 < jpa-> mawk: cutout (= air) on all sides except narrow traces out
2021-08-02T14:11:41 < mawk> I see
2021-08-02T14:11:50 < mawk> if you drown it in epoxy maybe it will improve
2021-08-02T14:12:53 < jpa-> i'm not sure which direction would be improvement (more insulation or more conduction)
2021-08-02T14:13:06 < jpa-> because i kind of want it to be adjustable faster than the user falls asleep
2021-08-02T14:13:27 < mawk> you can use either normal epoxy or thermal epoxy for either direction
2021-08-02T14:17:44 < BrainDamage> you might get better thermal constants if you abuse pcb cutouts and make the island sectioned away by milling
2021-08-02T14:18:19 < jpa-> that's exactly how it is
2021-08-02T14:18:49 < BrainDamage> ah sorry, misread you
2021-08-02T14:19:59 < PaulFertser> mawk: nasty, thanks for letting know
2021-08-02T14:20:05 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210802_141847.jpg
2021-08-02T14:20:14 < BrainDamage> i would say thermal epoxy to start, that'll equalize temp in all the sections, and increase suraace area for dissipation
2021-08-02T14:20:31 < BrainDamage> and you have too much loss, then add reg epoxy on top of that
2021-08-02T14:20:39 < BrainDamage> as sort of double layer
2021-08-02T14:21:28 < jpa-> yeah, but at that point it becomes a manufacturability nightmare
2021-08-02T14:22:47 < jpa-> it's a promising concept at least
2021-08-02T14:22:52 < BrainDamage> you could also add a fan, more power wasted, but also higher losses towards env
2021-08-02T14:22:59 < jpa-> but i think i might get by with regular digipots
2021-08-02T14:23:26 < BrainDamage> I wonder if there's smd peltiers
2021-08-02T14:23:44 < jpa-> at least there are those tiny 5x5 mm ones
2021-08-02T14:23:45 < BrainDamage> those would let you heat and cool at the rate you want
2021-08-02T14:23:49 < jpa-> with wires
2021-08-02T14:24:27 < jpa-> maybe one day there will be a MEMS chip with integrated resistor and peltier
2021-08-02T14:25:21 < BrainDamage> technically quite doable, no idea if anyone tried already
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2021-08-02T15:09:39 < Laurenceb> holy shit wew
2021-08-02T15:09:48 < Laurenceb> >sonichu drama is now in uk newspapers
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2021-08-02T15:10:31 < Laurenceb> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15754683/who-chris-chan/
2021-08-02T15:12:14 < b-rex> Laurenceb: You have an unhealthy infatuation with the reddit moderator waifu wallpaper anime avatar gender pronoun protected class individuals.
2021-08-02T15:12:24 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-08-02T15:12:40 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna save that description as a copypasta, thanks
2021-08-02T15:19:27 < Laurenceb> if I open /dev/sda2 in c, is there a way to find the size of the partition?
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2021-08-02T15:20:07 < ventyl> lseek64(SEEK_END, 0) should return end offset, shouldn't it?
2021-08-02T15:21:10 < jpa-> BLKGETSIZE64 iotcl
2021-08-02T15:21:11 < jpa-> *ioctl
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2021-08-02T15:22:42 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-02T15:22:53 < Laurenceb> and that will work on partitions?
2021-08-02T15:23:13  * Laurenceb is planning to use a raw partition with no filesystem as a huge circular data buffer
2021-08-02T15:23:40 < Laurenceb> hyperloop "black box recorder"
2021-08-02T15:26:22 < specing> Not a bad idea, except...
2021-08-02T15:26:37 < specing> you have to erase some of the last entries to append the new one
2021-08-02T15:26:58 < jpa-> isn't that the point of a circular buffer :)
2021-08-02T15:26:59 < specing> I'd use a big eeprom, but that's another part...
2021-08-02T15:27:26 < specing> jpa-: what if catastrophic failure occurs while erasing to append?
2021-08-02T15:27:53 < jpa-> what "erasing to append" are you talking about?
2021-08-02T15:28:12 < jpa-> the stuff that the harddrive/ssd does by itself?
2021-08-02T15:28:14 < specing> jpa-: flash is read-modify-write
2021-08-02T15:28:46 < specing> though I suppose it'd happen before the tin can explodes/implodes
2021-08-02T15:28:51 < jpa-> i guess some ssds might lose data when power is lost in middle of the write, but i would assume better ones will write to a new sector before erasing old one
2021-08-02T15:29:00 < jpa-> because they do wear leveling anyway
2021-08-02T15:29:54 < jpa-> and i think most PC users wouldn't be happy with potentially corrupting old, unrelated files when power cuts out
2021-08-02T15:30:53 < specing> It happens, though
2021-08-02T15:32:35 < jpa-> https://www.kingston.com/finland/en/solutions/servers-data-centers/ssd-power-loss-protection   but it's not hard to buy a drive that protects against it
2021-08-02T15:35:49 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: why not use one of the existing log-structured filesystems?
2021-08-02T15:37:02 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: trying to keep it simple
2021-08-02T15:37:17 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: I can see how less complexity in the structure can be beneficial from log recovery point of view.
2021-08-02T15:37:25 < Laurenceb> going to use a binary search to find the head of the log
2021-08-02T15:37:52 < Laurenceb> then just start writing, each packet will have a crc to protect against corruption
2021-08-02T15:38:34 < PaulFertser> Each packet of fixed size which will be enough for all the current and future purposes?
2021-08-02T15:40:29 < ventyl> fucking autohell
2021-08-02T15:41:49 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: packets will be variable length
2021-08-02T15:42:21 < ventyl> how will binary search work on such structure without having an index?
2021-08-02T15:42:30 < jpa-> how are you going to find start of packet in your binary search?
2021-08-02T15:42:40 < ventyl> jpa-: quicker :-
2021-08-02T15:42:44 < jpa-> you could subdivide the packets to fixed-length blocks with some indexing
2021-08-02T15:43:21 < zyp> you could do a linear search from the binary search point to find the nearest packet preamble :p
2021-08-02T15:43:34 < zyp> but that would be dumb as fuck
2021-08-02T15:44:32 < zyp> fixed size and fragmentation of larger messages would be the way to go
2021-08-02T15:44:36 < jpa-> or you could, irrespective of packets, every X kilobytes write out a struct that gives byte offset to start of current packet
2021-08-02T15:44:38 < ventyl> right
2021-08-02T15:45:02 < jpa-> and then just skip those structs when reading out the packets and interleave them when writing out packets
2021-08-02T15:45:26 < jpa-> then you could move those every X kB structs to a separate area of the partition
2021-08-02T15:45:52 < jpa-> and so you have two ring buffers, one of fixed size packet metadata and another of variable sized packet data
2021-08-02T15:46:19 < jpa-> then you could call those packets "files" and maybe add some kind of hierarchical structure to organize them
2021-08-02T15:47:10 < jpa-> then get linus to mainline the lolrencefs that is very efficient but starts removing your oldest files when the buffer wraps over
2021-08-02T15:49:12 < zyp> murderfs
2021-08-02T15:49:22 < ventyl> we already have that one
2021-08-02T15:49:35 < ventyl> alias murderfs=reiserfs
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2021-08-02T16:22:49 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-08-02T16:23:02 < Laurenceb> yeah binary search combined with linear search to find packet headers
2021-08-02T16:23:12 < Laurenceb> simples
2021-08-02T16:44:20 < mawk> linear binary quadratic sub-supra-exponential search
2021-08-02T16:44:22 < mawk> © Laurenceb 2021
2021-08-02T16:44:41 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-08-02T16:44:57 < mawk> nothing
2021-08-02T16:50:54 < BrainDamage> just write packets of fixed size and have an incremental id to tell which file it belongs to 
2021-08-02T16:51:07 < BrainDamage> then real serially until the packet id changes
2021-08-02T16:51:19 < BrainDamage>  * then real serially until the file id changes
2021-08-02T16:52:03 < BrainDamage> storage is cheap and you don't really care about read speed in a black box
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2021-08-02T16:52:09 < BrainDamage> you just want data integrity
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2021-08-02T16:54:08 < BrainDamage> in the case of a power loss you can detect the write point by binary search where there's a discontinuity in file ids if there's more than one overwrite cycle or empty space
2021-08-02T16:56:13 < BrainDamage> if you want to ensure that the file is correct you can write two checksums, one for the block and one for the file
2021-08-02T16:57:42 < BrainDamage> the first thing that's gonna be done to that monstruosity anyway is going to be multiple image dumps
2021-08-02T16:57:52 < BrainDamage> and then read from them with all leisure time in the world
2021-08-02T17:03:35 < BrainDamage> is there such thing as teflon duct tape? I have two plastic surfaces i want to slide on eachother and the clearance is too small for rollers
2021-08-02T17:08:36 < ventyl> there are rolls of teflon
2021-08-02T17:08:48 < ventyl> but those I've seen were several milimeters thick
2021-08-02T17:12:13 < emeryth> how about dry teflon lube?
2021-08-02T17:12:49 < jpa-> BrainDamage: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tapecase/1-2-5-204-3/14293529
2021-08-02T17:15:53 < BrainDamage> thanks @ both
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2021-08-02T18:51:34 < englishman> neato
2021-08-02T18:53:21 < englishman> annoying that it doesn't give you the length
2021-08-02T18:54:40 < englishman> or the width. though you can kind of tell it's 1/2 of something by the part number
2021-08-02T18:55:18 < englishman> if i order that will i get a 1/2 swimming pool wide tape that's 5 empire state buildings tall long?
2021-08-02T19:09:17 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-08-02T19:10:47 < Steffanx> Google says 5 yard, englishman 
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2021-08-02T19:22:24 < tct> does anyone else in here use clion for STM32 development?
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2021-08-02T20:07:23 < Steffanx> No, its outside my hobby budget 😋
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2021-08-02T20:33:09 < englishman> i have a dmm that has selectable input resistance in voltage measurement mode, 10 M or >10 G. when the dmm is in ammeter mode, which resistance is expected across these terminals?
2021-08-02T20:33:15 < englishman> agilent 34461A.
2021-08-02T20:36:00 < BrainDamage> neither
2021-08-02T20:36:22 < BrainDamage> a good current reader tries to have the lowest possible resistance
2021-08-02T20:36:31 < BrainDamage> it'll be in the order of milliohm
2021-08-02T20:42:07 < englishman> i mean, resistance across the voltage measurement terminals, when the dmm is in ammeter mode
2021-08-02T20:43:13 < englishman> the resistance across the ammeter terminals is dependent on the scale, and can be much higher for example the 34461A 1mA scale is 100 ohm
2021-08-02T20:44:36 < englishman> separate question, are there DMMs that have a high-impedance mode for the ammeter terminals when you aren't using them
2021-08-02T20:44:51 < englishman> what i want to do is take both voltage and current measurements without manipulation
2021-08-02T20:45:10 < englishman> i have a programmable decade box, when i want to take a current measurement, it will go high-impedance
2021-08-02T20:45:26 < englishman> when i want to take a voltage measurement, it will go to the appropriate resistance so i can measure voltage across it
2021-08-02T20:45:48 < englishman> but i can't short the ammeter and voltmeter terminals together, because the ammeter terminal is always low impedance
2021-08-02T20:49:40 < Steffanx> Heh, the perfect job for englishman  was just on TV. A mailmen by airplane. 
2021-08-02T20:50:06 < englishman> my job is great now
2021-08-02T20:50:13 < englishman> and will be even better in Jan
2021-08-02T20:50:34 < englishman> next year i will probably go to: san francisco, munich, shanghai and tokyo
2021-08-02T20:50:39 < Steffanx> Ah, fancy
2021-08-02T20:50:56 < englishman> yes i can't wait to visit lockheed, sandia, LLNL etc
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2021-08-02T21:06:33 < steverrrr> sup broze
2021-08-02T21:10:14 < Steffanx> Tha sky moite 
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2021-08-02T21:16:17 < upgrdman> anyone used their phone as a usb mic? did it end up working nicely?
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2021-08-02T21:35:24 < englishman> hurr durr i can just connect the ammeter in series
2021-08-02T21:36:36 < englishman> https://i.ibb.co/brSx2vR/image.png
2021-08-02T21:37:15 < englishman> variable resistor goes down to 0.1 ohm
2021-08-02T21:40:27 < karlp> as opposed to... what?
2021-08-02T21:41:03 < karlp> nvm, wasn't reading this in contex of your decade box
2021-08-02T21:46:37 < englishman> if i measure the voltage across the ammeter terminals while the dmm is in voltmeter mode, i get a very low voltage, so the dmm is smartly put into a high scale that has a low resistance 
2021-08-02T21:47:30 < BrainDamage> fun related bit, put two dmmone in volt another in current mode in auto scale
2021-08-02T21:47:35 < BrainDamage> then connect them to eachother
2021-08-02T21:47:45 < BrainDamage> the reaction delay makes them oscillate
2021-08-02T21:48:46 < BrainDamage> sorry, one in ohm, another in current
2021-08-02T22:21:57 < mawk> I tried for a bit tct why?
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2021-08-02T22:32:29 < englishman> https://i.ibb.co/VMjT71V/image.png
2021-08-02T22:32:33 < englishman> this seems to work
2021-08-02T22:33:18 < mawk> bananas
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2021-08-02T23:26:45 < kakium69> "When motorcycle wobbles it's trying to right itself"
2021-08-02T23:52:09 -!- Guest83 [~Guest83@147.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-02T23:52:11 < Guest83> sonichu is a motherfucking comic
2021-08-02T23:54:10 < Steffanx> Who are you quoting, mr kakium69 
2021-08-02T23:54:44 < kakium69> random youtube video where motogp riders ride through wobbles like nothing
2021-08-02T23:59:11 < kakium69> narator basically tells that they just let it wobble
--- Day changed Tue Aug 03 2021
2021-08-03T00:00:15 < kakium69> I just realized what the deal is with my moped
2021-08-03T00:00:30 < kakium69> last owner bought it at 80k kilometers
2021-08-03T00:00:51 < kakium69> had it for a couple of years did 5k
2021-08-03T00:01:20 < ventyl> well yes, machine will find it's way through the road
2021-08-03T00:01:39 < kakium69> anyone guess what kind of service yamaha needs at 80k kilometers?
2021-08-03T00:01:56 < Steffanx> Full rebuild
2021-08-03T00:02:31 < kakium69> valve adjustment(with shims)
2021-08-03T00:03:45 < kakium69> that alone is 600eurs at moped repair man
2021-08-03T00:04:21 < PaulFertser> kakium69: why can't you just measure and buy shims you need via the Internet?
2021-08-03T00:04:43 < kakium69> you know where the shims are inside the engine?
2021-08-03T00:04:51 < PaulFertser> kakium69: the cam rockers
2021-08-03T00:05:00 < kakium69> under lifter cups
2021-08-03T00:05:03 < kakium69> under cams
2021-08-03T00:05:05 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-08-03T00:05:10 < kakium69> under cams!
2021-08-03T00:05:24 < PaulFertser> But you do not need to disassemble the engine to get there.
2021-08-03T00:05:39 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-03T00:05:42 < kakium69> only cams
2021-08-03T00:06:01 < PaulFertser> So looks doable without a "moped repair" shop.
2021-08-03T00:06:11 < kakium69> I have done it before
2021-08-03T00:08:03 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uPwW5MEAK43QI2sq8lsG_EQbZ_hlPhZH/view?usp=sharing
2021-08-03T00:08:06 < kakium69> made this
2021-08-03T00:09:30 < kakium69> so in order to buy shims old shims need to be measured
2021-08-03T00:10:21 < PaulFertser> Of course
2021-08-03T00:11:27 < qyx> mittaustaulukko.pdf such finnish
2021-08-03T00:11:32 -!- Kamilion [~kvirc@user/kamilion] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-08-03T00:14:48 < kakium69> mitta = measure, mittaus = measurement, taulukko = table, chart
2021-08-03T00:15:12 < ventyl> absofuckinglutely
2021-08-03T00:16:44 < kakium69> taulu = board(on the wall), painting(on the wall)
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2021-08-03T00:23:38 < kakium69> -kko means like multiple of
2021-08-03T00:30:17 < octorian> If I want to get certain STM32 parts, which are obviously unobtainable on Mouser/Digi-Key, and am willing to pay higher-than-list prices (as its for prototyping), are there any good options?
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2021-08-03T00:31:19 < Laurenceb> on eMMC, do you have to wipe entire 512byte sectors at a time?
2021-08-03T00:31:55 < kakium69> I assume it's per chip type Laurenceb like in nands
2021-08-03T00:32:20 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: eMMC in my netbook sometimes didn't allow reading from certain 512 B sectors and it was fixable only by writing 0s to whole 4096 that contained it.
2021-08-03T00:32:37 < Laurenceb> nasty
2021-08-03T00:32:42 < qyx> wipe block on emmc?
2021-08-03T00:32:50 < Laurenceb> maybe I will need a filesystem
2021-08-03T00:33:06 < qyx> wat, emmc includes FTL, you don't usually wipe anything
2021-08-03T00:33:09 < Laurenceb> qyx: I'm planning to access /dev/sda2 on RPi directly
2021-08-03T00:33:21 < ventyl> Laurenceb: first sane thing you wrote today
2021-08-03T00:33:34 < ventyl> it only took you 22 and half hours to do so
2021-08-03T00:33:36 < ventyl> :>
2021-08-03T00:34:00 < qyx> sda is a common block device, no need for special filesystems
2021-08-03T00:34:20 < qyx> you can dd it
2021-08-03T00:34:24 < qyx> or whatever you want to do
2021-08-03T00:34:31 < Laurenceb> qyx: so its guaranteed to be 512byte?
2021-08-03T00:34:50 < ventyl> from application perspective yes
2021-08-03T00:34:57 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-03T00:34:57 < qyx> why should it be?
2021-08-03T00:35:00 < ventyl> physically it can be like 4k
2021-08-03T00:35:11 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-03T00:35:17 < ventyl> but most probably not in size ranges of typical eMMCs
2021-08-03T00:35:18 < Laurenceb> what happens if I call sync?
2021-08-03T00:35:30 < ventyl> buffers will be flushed
2021-08-03T00:35:44 < Laurenceb> would it cause write amplification?
2021-08-03T00:36:06 < ventyl> probably not in your use case
2021-08-03T00:36:25 < Laurenceb> how come?
2021-08-03T00:37:00 < kakium69> write amplification?
2021-08-03T00:37:22 < ventyl> you write whole blocks, if your write size will be the same as solid state page size, you will never call sync multiple times during writing one full page
2021-08-03T00:37:47 < ventyl> and also, I am not sure if sync guarrantees flushing of HW buffers, most probably not
2021-08-03T00:37:56 < ventyl> as some of them may be invisible to the OS
2021-08-03T00:38:41 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-03T00:39:27 < Laurenceb> I should prob read RPi eMMC datasheet
2021-08-03T00:40:41 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you can also use "flashbench" to determine it and check performance.
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2021-08-03T00:42:41 < qyx> ventyl: there are situations/devices, when you cannot write in 512 B blocks and interwebs seem to confirm
2021-08-03T00:42:46 < qyx> http://www.oeey.com/2014/10/invalid-argument-directio-4kn.html
2021-08-03T00:43:31 < qyx> also, for sd/mmc writing in blocks smaller than the physical write block size gives suboptimal write performance
2021-08-03T00:43:54 < PaulFertser> And flashbench shows that, so you can determine the real size.
2021-08-03T00:45:25 < Laurenceb> looks like 512byte sectors from the size / sector count
2021-08-03T00:45:59 < PaulFertser> Better check with flashbench.
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2021-08-03T06:36:13 < R2COM> uh what a week
2021-08-03T06:36:38 < R2COM> gotta get vacation soon and need to finish large pcb with pcie and ddr4... 
2021-08-03T06:36:45 < R2COM> in a shittiest software on earth
2021-08-03T06:39:31 < R2COM> MSVC has some nice code tracing feature... but i really wanted to find some OSS solution to code analyzis
2021-08-03T06:39:40 < R2COM> like..the one which can draw diagrams of what calls what etc
2021-08-03T06:39:51 < R2COM> on a huge map which you can navigate...
2021-08-03T06:39:52 < R2COM> hmm
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2021-08-03T10:25:30 < mawk> #define _CLOCK(port) RCC_AHBPeriph_ ## port
2021-08-03T10:25:31 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-08-03T10:25:39 < mawk> #define CLOCK(port) _CLOCK(port)
2021-08-03T10:25:40 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-08-03T10:25:49 < mawk> and eclipse says "invalid use of macro pasting in macro _CLOCK" why?????
2021-08-03T10:25:54 < mawk> this code works perfectly
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2021-08-03T10:26:13 < mawk> CLOCK(some define) gives the right name
2021-08-03T10:27:18 < mawk> I could do this: #ifndef __CDT_PARSER__ /* macro magic */ #else /* dummy macro */ #endif
2021-08-03T10:27:21 < mawk> but my colleagues won't lik eit
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2021-08-03T11:40:29 < Steffanx> Educate your colleagues mawk 
2021-08-03T11:44:45 < jpa-> "Welcome to my presentation. Today you will learn: 1. Eclipse is shit  2. We use Eclipse  3. Now our code will be full of shit also"
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2021-08-03T12:13:33 < Steffanx> Is this weird ass edition even using an up to date eclipse, mawk?
2021-08-03T12:25:46 < Helmholtz>  jpa- You use Eclipse foe embedded?
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2021-08-03T12:55:00 < ventyl> that's done fairly often
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2021-08-03T14:50:49 < Mangy_Dog> i use eclipse :(
2021-08-03T14:50:53 < Mangy_Dog> i agree
2021-08-03T14:50:56 < Mangy_Dog> its shit
2021-08-03T14:51:00 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont know any better
2021-08-03T14:51:18 < Mangy_Dog> id really love to get visual studio setup for embedded stuff
2021-08-03T14:51:22 < Mangy_Dog> and work with roger clarks core too
2021-08-03T14:51:35 < Mangy_Dog> While letting me start delving into other core libraries
2021-08-03T14:53:04 < ventyl> it is simple IMO
2021-08-03T14:53:39 < ventyl> but may be just my view, as I almost always refuse to use IDE of choice (R) of any particular project and use vim instead 
2021-08-03T14:55:50 < Helmholtz> ventyl, is your dotfiles public?
2021-08-03T14:56:41 < ventyl> not yet, and oh, I'm using neovim, just in case
2021-08-03T14:57:19 < Helmholtz> and CoC?
2021-08-03T14:58:32 < ventyl> neoclide/coc.nvim
2021-08-03T14:59:36 < Steffanx> Eclipse most of the time works fine for me. I wouldnt call it shit.
2021-08-03T15:00:37 < Steffanx> What kind of issues you have, you can say is 100% not your doing Mangy_Dog  ?
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2021-08-03T15:05:49 < Laurenceb> autist kids just cant catch a break
2021-08-03T15:05:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-58064188
2021-08-03T15:05:56 < Laurenceb> >88 in url
2021-08-03T15:08:01 < Laurenceb> diagnosis: terminal autism
2021-08-03T15:09:58 < Laurenceb> hes gunna form the worlds most powerful terrorist group.. but first hes gunna try to lurn to tie his shoelaces
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2021-08-03T15:29:07 < karlp> btsig all aboard the annoy r2commy train: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rLYr7.png
2021-08-03T15:32:19 < karlp> no changes in security or anything that I can see.
2021-08-03T15:33:10 < Mangy_Dog> With eclipse Steffanx?
2021-08-03T15:33:19 < Mangy_Dog> It has strange querks
2021-08-03T15:34:03 < Mangy_Dog> every so oftern i have to refresh the project by going into the project properties and select the mcu and settings over, as randomly it would start failing to build correctly
2021-08-03T15:34:20 < Mangy_Dog> its utterly fragile as an ide
2021-08-03T15:34:37 < Mangy_Dog> various things would just stop working for no reason what so ever
2021-08-03T15:34:41 < Steffanx> I wonder how much of that is caused by your doing or maybe some plugin you use
2021-08-03T15:34:56 < Mangy_Dog> and sometimes it feels like im fixing eclipse more than im using eclipse
2021-08-03T15:35:05 < Mangy_Dog> might be a plugin but certainly not my doing
2021-08-03T15:35:05 < Steffanx> Since selecting some mcu is not a default eclipse feature
2021-08-03T15:35:13 < Mangy_Dog> might be sloeber
2021-08-03T15:35:24 < Steffanx> I wouldnt be surprised 
2021-08-03T15:35:29 < Mangy_Dog> devstyle would also randomly brake on occation
2021-08-03T15:35:49 < Mangy_Dog> indexer and linker wont always kick in
2021-08-03T15:35:54 < Mangy_Dog> without a restart of the program
2021-08-03T15:36:44 < Steffanx> Fuck that karlp. Im not against not using the master-slave termology, but.. changing it is only confusing 
2021-08-03T15:36:44 < Mangy_Dog> oh and of course the latest one for me... the debug platform that i had help setting up here
2021-08-03T15:36:50 < Mangy_Dog> has utterly randomly decided to stop working now
2021-08-03T15:36:55 < Mangy_Dog> again nothing changed
2021-08-03T15:36:57 < Mangy_Dog> just stopped
2021-08-03T15:37:06 < Mangy_Dog> cant run my projects in debug mode any more
2021-08-03T15:37:57 < Steffanx> I dont remember I ever had eclipse do random things that were not causes by something I did. 
2021-08-03T15:38:16 < Steffanx> Ok, once.
2021-08-03T15:38:29 < Mangy_Dog> one posibility for some of it is installing visual studio and c++ packs
2021-08-03T15:38:37 < Mangy_Dog> might have over written something in the eclipse builders
2021-08-03T15:38:41 < Mangy_Dog> that broke something up the chain
2021-08-03T15:39:06 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know how centralised gdc? is
2021-08-03T15:39:14 < Mangy_Dog> forgot what the builders were called
2021-08-03T15:39:21 < karlp> Steffanx: eh, it's no biggy if you're updating it anyway.
2021-08-03T15:39:40 < karlp> it definitely doesn't seem like as big an update as 5.1 and 5.2 were though
2021-08-03T15:42:29 < Steffanx> Anyway, I wouldnt be surprised if most of the eclipse "shit" people experience is causes by shitty custom terrible outdated vendor editions 
2021-08-03T15:42:35 < Steffanx> Or buggy plugins 
2021-08-03T15:42:46 < Steffanx> Especially when  they mess with the project itself
2021-08-03T15:43:33 < Steffanx> And people that depend of having the tools they need in the "PATH"
2021-08-03T15:43:41 < Steffanx> on*
2021-08-03T15:43:58 < Mangy_Dog> steeanx maybe
2021-08-03T15:44:05 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx
2021-08-03T15:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> im not going to brake anything just yet though
2021-08-03T15:44:19 < Mangy_Dog> finishing this tricorder project first
2021-08-03T15:44:24 < Mangy_Dog> then putting together a new machine
2021-08-03T15:44:34 < Mangy_Dog> ill try latest eclipse then and try to get thing workign in it
2021-08-03T15:44:53 < Steffanx> Install in a vm and make a snapshot when it works 😋
2021-08-03T15:45:00 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2021-08-03T15:45:10 < Mangy_Dog> tbh like i say though
2021-08-03T15:45:13 < Mangy_Dog> id like to move away from eclipse
2021-08-03T15:45:17 < Mangy_Dog> oh yeah
2021-08-03T15:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> and some how
2021-08-03T15:45:46 < Steffanx> Or that. Go for vim (lol)
2021-08-03T15:45:51 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse some times causes ASUS Ai suite 9motherboard controller) to start getting a graphic error memory leak that loads multiple 
2021-08-03T15:46:07 < Mangy_Dog> error messages like the old late 90s internet explorer dialogue popup spam
2021-08-03T15:46:22 < Mangy_Dog> it took me ages to realise its eclipse causing it
2021-08-03T15:46:33 < Steffanx> Wut..
2021-08-03T15:46:38 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i know.... shouldnt be possible
2021-08-03T15:46:57 < Mangy_Dog> might be asus suite being badly coded and having bad memory limits
2021-08-03T15:46:58 < Mangy_Dog> but still
2021-08-03T15:47:08 < Mangy_Dog> when it happens i now know to kill eclipse and it stops
2021-08-03T15:47:16 < Mangy_Dog> and i can reopen eclipse after and it be fine for a while
2021-08-03T15:47:21 < Mangy_Dog> maybe a few days
2021-08-03T15:47:31 < Mangy_Dog> but will happen again at some point
2021-08-03T15:47:37 < Steffanx> Sounds like this ai suite is shit
2021-08-03T15:47:52 < Mangy_Dog> well if it was JUST asus... why would only eclipse be the cause
2021-08-03T15:48:40 < Steffanx>  maybe eclipse triggers it, but is not the issue. :P
2021-08-03T15:48:46 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2021-08-03T15:49:30 < Laurenceb> keeek the "central"
2021-08-03T15:49:44 < Laurenceb> because the terminology wasnt confusing enough already
2021-08-03T15:50:06 < Laurenceb> as a descended of serfs I feel unrepresented 
2021-08-03T15:51:12 < karlp> central/peirpheral was used in other parts already, 
2021-08-03T15:57:36 < englishman> it's quite confusing
2021-08-03T15:57:40 < bitmask> oh my god i paid for a program on the mac app store
2021-08-03T15:57:41 < englishman> making Central a noun like that
2021-08-03T15:58:19 < englishman> they couldn't have said Controller or maybe Whip
2021-08-03T15:58:27 < englishman> master/slave => whip/chain
2021-08-03T15:58:58 < englishman> the Whip, of course, being the parliamentary position of telling political party members what to do
2021-08-03T15:59:59 < englishman> Whip/Member
2021-08-03T16:01:31 < Steffanx> englishman/wifeman
2021-08-03T16:02:28 < englishman> i like Whip/Member, adds a phallic element
2021-08-03T16:07:11 < sauce> top/bottom
2021-08-03T16:21:10 < Helmholtz> The ridiculous thing is branch of git...I was creating a repo on gitlab and I forgot to uncheck "Make a default Readme" . It make the branch name `main`.
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2021-08-03T16:27:34 < karlp> people complained about "master" not being "trunk" too.
2021-08-03T16:27:37 < karlp> it's just a default name
2021-08-03T16:27:43 < karlp> who cares if it's master or main
2021-08-03T16:28:08 < GenTooMan> what happens if you already had a main / master?
2021-08-03T16:33:44 < ventyl> nothing
2021-08-03T16:33:48 < ventyl> it only affects new repos
2021-08-03T16:34:09 < ventyl> and you can configure it to be master even for new repos, if you live outside of US
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2021-08-03T17:13:30 < Laurenceb> lolwut hyperloop private github is still called master
2021-08-03T17:13:37 < Laurenceb> we must be bigots
2021-08-03T17:17:22 < qyx> I still have all repositories with masters
2021-08-03T17:17:30 < specing> qyx: same
2021-08-03T17:17:38 < qyx> sjw hype
2021-08-03T17:18:30 < BrainDamage> let them scream and get their phyrric victories, as long as they do the work I'm ok with it
2021-08-03T17:19:12 < BrainDamage> at least they are busying themselves with bs and not pestering people
2021-08-03T17:30:07 < Laurenceb> starship not looking so hawt right now
2021-08-03T17:30:18 < Laurenceb> shaping up to be another musk photoop
2021-08-03T17:30:48 < Laurenceb> fake fins are fake, cracked tiles are cracked
2021-08-03T17:30:54 < englishman> how is your rockoon doing laurent
2021-08-03T17:31:04 < englishman> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7fEAKSWQAEnWtX?format=jpg&name=large
2021-08-03T17:31:09 < englishman> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7zARpUWEAI65OI?format=jpg&name=small
2021-08-03T17:31:14 < englishman> looks better than rockoon imo
2021-08-03T17:32:05 < englishman> rockoon is so early in development it can't even crash and burn
2021-08-03T17:32:21 < englishman> it's not even good enough to fail.
2021-08-03T17:33:50 < specing> lol, I heard musk got the europa clipper mission, instead of it being given to SLS
2021-08-03T17:34:02 < specing> I wonder how long before they just write off the whole SLS thing
2021-08-03T17:35:12 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54439.msg2271649#msg2271649
2021-08-03T17:35:17 < Laurenceb> nice mix of transport
2021-08-03T17:37:09 < Laurenceb> keeekkk https://games.slashdot.org/story/21/08/03/140231/blizzards-president-is-stepping-down-amid-culture-scandal
2021-08-03T17:37:23 < Laurenceb> >sued by the state of California for being a frat boy
2021-08-03T17:37:36 < Laurenceb> enjoy ur freedumz
2021-08-03T17:38:35 < Laurenceb> https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=19470419&cid=61650581
2021-08-03T17:38:43 < Laurenceb> lol I'm gunna start saying just that
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2021-08-03T17:49:41 < Laurenceb> keek https://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/
2021-08-03T17:50:48 < Laurenceb> wonder what happen with his phd student
2021-08-03T17:58:16 < ventyl> mocking of C code in tests sucks
2021-08-03T17:59:17 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-08-03T18:00:28 < karlp> unit testing c sucks, kidna period...
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2021-08-03T18:11:53 < aandrew> I fucking hate unit testing. I haven't found a decent framework yet
2021-08-03T18:12:10 < aandrew> and I am convinced it's just a poor idea in general, although theoretically great
2021-08-03T18:12:25 < aandrew> they all need you to do top-down design
2021-08-03T18:13:28 < ventyl> it is good idea, it is just expensive
2021-08-03T18:13:51 < ventyl> and may get ridiculously expensive, if your contact surface is large
2021-08-03T18:14:12 < ventyl> = many external interfaces / API calls and small amount of layers
2021-08-03T18:23:21 < karlp> I've used it a lot for capturing existing behaviour of black box shit that I had to pick up,
2021-08-03T18:23:37 < karlp> and it's been great for shit that I know has lots of edge cases, but most stuff I don't bother.
2021-08-03T18:24:01 < karlp> and there's lots of ways of building code that make it really hard to unit test, and require lots of "mocks" and that normally gets out of hand quick smart.
2021-08-03T18:29:09 < MrMobius> do you unit test the mocks too?
2021-08-03T18:30:00 < karlp> personally, if the unit test library won't let me specify mock return values, and requires _real_ mock shits, then I'ðm not using it :)
2021-08-03T18:30:21 < karlp> but yeah, this is why any sort of mocking gets batshit crazy quickly
2021-08-03T18:38:37 < bitmask> ugh, where is my stlink v3 mini, i cant debug with my v2 clone because it needs to be updated and pretty sure that will brick it
2021-08-03T18:40:08 < karlp> why does it need to be updated?
2021-08-03T18:41:18 < bitmask> dunno, first it asks i want to update it, i say no, then it says update required
2021-08-03T18:41:54 < karlp> what tooling is asking taht?
2021-08-03T18:42:20 < bitmask> cube ide
2021-08-03T18:42:22 < bitmask> :)
2021-08-03T18:43:27 < bitmask> and i didnt add any status leds or other outputs broken out on this stupid board
2021-08-03T18:43:53 < bitmask> oh shit there are pins i can use nvm
2021-08-03T18:44:11 < bitmask> not the best way to debug but all i have atm
2021-08-03T18:44:42 < bitmask> cause this isnt working at all :/
2021-08-03T19:09:16 < Steffanx> You can do it bitmask \o/
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2021-08-03T19:12:25 < bitmask> i give up, im never stm'ing again
2021-08-03T19:12:29 < bitmask> (not really_
2021-08-03T19:13:21 < mawk> I started stming again me
2021-08-03T19:13:27 < bitmask> i did cut everything out except for initializing a gpio pin and looping with a toggle, and it just stays low :P
2021-08-03T19:13:34 < mawk> with stm32l1
2021-08-03T19:13:46 < bitmask> mines an f030 (i wanted a tssop)
2021-08-03T19:13:55 < mawk> but my boss makes me use old obsolete stdperiph
2021-08-03T19:14:04 < mawk> so I'm trying to convince him to use at least hal
2021-08-03T19:14:16 < mawk> so I can cube all the way
2021-08-03T19:14:27 < bitmask> this is my first time cubin'
2021-08-03T19:15:38 < Steffanx> like HAL makes you happy mawk..
2021-08-03T19:15:59 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-08-03T19:16:03 < mawk> I've always liked hal
2021-08-03T19:16:04 < Steffanx> Bye mawk
2021-08-03T19:16:33 < mawk> :(((
2021-08-03T19:17:11 < karlp> but, do you like it as much as you like ukraine? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKDXxNKfu9M
2021-08-03T19:19:56 < mawk> lol
2021-08-03T19:21:00 < karlp> favourite old esc song (well, one of them) by favourite new esc group
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2021-08-03T19:31:25 < Steffanx> or do you use HAL's LL code mawk?
2021-08-03T19:33:06 < mawk> no Steffanx never tried yet
2021-08-03T19:33:15 < mawk> hal is mostly fine
2021-08-03T19:33:26 < mawk> sometimes I have to modify its code
2021-08-03T19:33:31 < mawk> or snoop inside the internals
2021-08-03T19:33:34 < mawk> but that's fine
2021-08-03T19:33:35 < ventyl> too fat and too verbose
2021-08-03T19:33:45 < Steffanx> sometimes I have to modify its code<=
2021-08-03T19:33:52 < Steffanx> That is just awful :P
2021-08-03T19:33:54 < mawk> lol
2021-08-03T19:33:55 < ventyl> HAL made me to put nucleo away for one year and go back to Atmel
2021-08-03T19:34:05 < mawk> ?¿
2021-08-03T19:34:05 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-03T19:34:11 < mawk> don't do that ventyl 
2021-08-03T19:34:14 < mawk> stay strong
2021-08-03T19:34:23 < ventyl> that was like one and half year ago
2021-08-03T19:34:35 < Steffanx> You dont tell me ASF is great, or wahtever its called nowadays
2021-08-03T19:34:44 < mawk> ?bite=dick
2021-08-03T19:34:44 < xnand> Done
2021-08-03T19:34:48 < mawk> ?bite
2021-08-03T19:34:48 < xnand> bite is dick
2021-08-03T19:34:51 < ventyl> ASF?
2021-08-03T19:35:03 < mawk> sauce I taught some french to your bot
2021-08-03T19:35:06 < Steffanx> What did you use on your microchip ic?
2021-08-03T19:35:14 < sauce> its not my bot
2021-08-03T19:35:16 < Steffanx> its not sauce's bot.
2021-08-03T19:35:24 < mawk> whose bot is it
2021-08-03T19:35:29 < ventyl> Steffanx: plain avr-libc
2021-08-03T19:35:43 < Steffanx> oh, you can do that on stm32 too..
2021-08-03T19:35:58 < Steffanx> i knew who it was mawk. it wasnt srk i think.
2021-08-03T19:36:09 < mawk> hmm
2021-08-03T19:36:30 < ventyl> Steffanx: well, I do use libopencm3 now
2021-08-03T19:36:43 < mawk> anyway the bot is french now
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2021-08-03T19:37:37 < Steffanx> but better :P
2021-08-03T19:37:47 < Steffanx> not sure who else cannot talk now though
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2021-08-03T19:38:39 < mawk> :( leave my compatriot alone
2021-08-03T19:38:49 < Steffanx> oh, it was srk
2021-08-03T19:39:02 < mawk> isn't srk already french?
2021-08-03T19:39:14 < mawk> he sent me some music some time ago
2021-08-03T19:39:20 < mawk> and there was french talk in it
2021-08-03T19:39:29 < Steffanx> cz i guess
2021-08-03T19:39:43 < mawk> he's behind 14 proxies
2021-08-03T19:39:59 < Steffanx> Hmm
2021-08-03T19:40:19 < Steffanx> I read wireguard will run in kernel mode on windows soon
2021-08-03T19:40:34 < Steffanx> totally random semi related note
2021-08-03T19:41:20 < bitmask> alright sweet, just made a new project that toggles an IO and it works
2021-08-03T19:41:27 < bitmask> so i can fix this
2021-08-03T19:41:52 < mawk>  yes Steffanx 
2021-08-03T19:45:25 < ventyl> ah shit
2021-08-03T19:45:50 < mawk> sieben sieben ein zwei drei karlp 
2021-08-03T19:46:38 < karlp> you bet. this is the original if you didn't recognize it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE
2021-08-03T19:47:35 < mawk> oh no
2021-08-03T19:48:05 < kakium69> the bestest
2021-08-03T19:49:13 < karlp> everybody loves verka
2021-08-03T19:50:53 < ventyl> eurovision produces a lot of weird content
2021-08-03T19:51:12 < ventyl> I wonder who is even consuming it so it is worth of the money poured in
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2021-08-03T19:59:41 < kakium69> maybe it's time to measure valve clearances
2021-08-03T20:00:04 < kakium69> I have the cover open already
2021-08-03T20:01:10 < kakium69> did you know engine thermostat is a wax motor?
2021-08-03T20:02:34 < kakium69> bbl>
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2021-08-03T20:06:23 < karlp> this is the correct way to finish the day right? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/W8pZy.png
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2021-08-03T20:10:58 < qyx> wut is it
2021-08-03T20:13:56 < qyx> what did I just see
2021-08-03T20:14:45 < Steffanx> some year of eurovision dutchland wasnt part of i think
2021-08-03T20:15:10 < qyx> I have never see a single EV song
2021-08-03T20:15:16 < qyx> *seen
2021-08-03T20:15:30 < qyx> except that verka
2021-08-03T20:16:02 < ventyl> didn't you see epic sax guy?
2021-08-03T20:16:27 < ventyl> there's even 1 hr long version of him
2021-08-03T20:16:28 < ventyl> :>
2021-08-03T20:16:31 < karlp> or the mega car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7-dxzp6Jvs
2021-08-03T20:16:59 < ventyl> TIL you can create file named *
2021-08-03T20:17:02 < karlp> brmm brmmmm
2021-08-03T20:17:07 < ventyl> GL & HF deleting it
2021-08-03T20:17:18 < karlp> just more ' right?
2021-08-03T20:17:22 < Steffanx> Come on, you missed this qyx? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84LBjXaeKk4
2021-08-03T20:17:42 < ventyl> karlp: if you realize it :)
2021-08-03T20:18:04 < ventyl> i've already had rm -f * written
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2021-08-03T20:37:47 < bitmask> hmm, so everything is looking pretty good, but my dma TC callback isnt being called, do I have to do anything aside from calling registerCallback?
2021-08-03T20:44:38 < bitmask> oh i think my callback param is wrong
2021-08-03T20:47:32 < bitmask> or not
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2021-08-03T20:55:38 < bitmask> grrr
2021-08-03T21:03:58 < Steffanx> for bitmask only https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6UvgWV5O6k
2021-08-03T21:04:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: Steffanx: http://openocd.org now using Pelican static generator.
2021-08-03T21:05:23 < bitmask> heh
2021-08-03T21:05:38 < bitmask> im just not sure what im doing wrong
2021-08-03T21:05:43 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/9PfTGpZ dont know about you, but .. for me that is hardly readable PaulFertser :P
2021-08-03T21:05:48 < Steffanx> the "2nd" menu
2021-08-03T21:06:27 < Steffanx> but probably much improved (technically) over super old world press
2021-08-03T21:06:30 < Steffanx> word
2021-08-03T21:06:46 < bitmask> in my dma init function I have tried both: hdma_spi1_tx.XferCpltCallback = DMA_TxComplete; and HAL_DMA_RegisterCallback(&hdma_spi1_tx, HAL_DMA_XFER_CPLT_CB_ID, DMA_TxComplete);
2021-08-03T21:06:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I use automatic dark theme in chromium :)
2021-08-03T21:07:11 < bitmask> and in the same file I have: void DMA_TxComplete(DMA_HandleTypeDef *hdma) { while (1); }
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2021-08-03T21:12:08 < Steffanx> so, set a break point in the interrupt and see where it ends.. if it ever gets called, bitmask
2021-08-03T21:12:46 < bitmask> i cant, im waiting on a legit st link, this clone wont let me debug without updating it and i really doubt i can update it
2021-08-03T21:12:53 < Steffanx> and last time i used something like this i just used the function that is declared as "weak". No explicit call back registering
2021-08-03T21:12:55 < bitmask> i dont know why cube ide is making me update it
2021-08-03T21:13:08 < bitmask> yea i should try that
2021-08-03T21:15:49 < bitmask> hmm, cant seem to find the weak reference
2021-08-03T21:15:54 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: simple tweaks to CSS are appreciated.
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2021-08-03T21:32:02 < Laurenceb> keeek the absolute state
2021-08-03T21:32:27 < Laurenceb> >thought I'd read based and redpilled demonic cummings blog
2021-08-03T21:32:34 < Laurenceb> >you have to pay per article
2021-08-03T21:32:39 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2021-08-03T21:33:47 < sauce> Laurenceb: i am revoking your cringeposting privileges
2021-08-03T21:33:49 < zyp> who registered this chan on libera? can I have op so I can kick Laurenceb when he spouts bullshit?
2021-08-03T21:34:27 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o zyp] by ChanServ
2021-08-03T21:34:35 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by zyp [thanks]
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2021-08-03T21:35:17 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o zyp] by zyp
2021-08-03T21:44:42 < specing> demonic cummings lmao
2021-08-03T21:51:23 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: set height for "nav" to 120px, probably should be "okish" now.
2021-08-03T21:52:08 < bitmask> zyp: so anytime hes typing?
2021-08-03T21:54:13 < PaulFertser> We were fruitfully discussing log-structured filesystems yesterday, so I guess no.
2021-08-03T21:57:37 < Steffanx> the page number on the home page is also a bit weird, but the menu was/is most annoying, PaulFertser
2021-08-03T21:57:54 < PaulFertser> You millenials please tell me. How to find a sane Pelican theme, something which wouldn't have anything measured in "px" dammit?
2021-08-03T21:58:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: what's weird about the page number?
2021-08-03T21:58:44 < ventyl> fuck themes, drop CSS, brutalism FTW
2021-08-03T21:59:04 < PaulFertser> ventyl: easy, disable CSS in your web browser
2021-08-03T21:59:15 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/IiRwsJX 
2021-08-03T21:59:17 < Steffanx> @ PaulFertser
2021-08-03T21:59:48 < ventyl> PaulFertser: nobody cares about non-css layout anymore, vast majority of webs turns into garbage without css
2021-08-03T21:59:58 < Steffanx> i dont care about non-css
2021-08-03T22:00:30 < Steffanx> Not going to support this 0.0001% of some possible visitor that does that.
2021-08-03T22:00:50 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: this is a "blog" so page number to move to older posts, what's weird?
2021-08-03T22:01:01 < Steffanx> its totally out of .. alignment
2021-08-03T22:01:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's just that the last post is so long that nothing else fits on the page.
2021-08-03T22:01:20 < PaulFertser> Hm, alignment.
2021-08-03T22:01:31 < PaulFertser> So what should be done about it?
2021-08-03T22:02:34 < Steffanx> center it more like the rest of the page? 
2021-08-03T22:03:39 < PaulFertser> Honestly no idea how :)
2021-08-03T22:04:26 < Steffanx> there is also a </ol> and <section> that was never openend, but im not triggered by that ;)
2021-08-03T22:04:33 < Steffanx> *</section>
2021-08-03T22:06:05 < PaulFertser> :))
2021-08-03T22:06:27 < PaulFertser> I thought Pelican was great and all.
2021-08-03T22:06:45 < PaulFertser> But apparently it can be buggy in silly ways too.
2021-08-03T22:06:58 < PaulFertser> At least can't be attacked like the stupid wordpress.
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2021-08-03T22:08:23 < Steffanx> adding something like adding margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto: width:760px to the pagination class should at least put it below the contact.
2021-08-03T22:08:30 < Steffanx> but im not css expert really :P
2021-08-03T22:09:11 < Steffanx> *auto;
2021-08-03T22:09:16 < Steffanx> and no idea what else it might break
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2021-08-03T22:18:23 < Steffanx> oh, thats what you said. on the other pages its is "correct" except that it moves around based on the content length. Great.
2021-08-03T22:18:27 < Steffanx> i love web dev *not*
2021-08-03T22:20:39 < englishman> zyp: you have +o so you can op yourself
2021-08-03T22:20:57 < zyp> yeah, I do bow
2021-08-03T22:20:59 < zyp> now*
2021-08-03T22:21:04 < englishman> ah
2021-08-03T22:23:41 < bitmask> oh dma, how i hate you
2021-08-03T22:25:11 < englishman> BrainDamage: you have ops now too
2021-08-03T22:26:18 < qyx> opfest ongoing
2021-08-03T22:26:38 < englishman> you too
2021-08-03T22:26:56 < ventyl> Steffanx: well, that was an attempt for irony. apparently I have failed
2021-08-03T22:27:19 < qyx> fuk moderating irc and botnets and takeovers and stuff
2021-08-03T22:27:26 < qyx> but thx
2021-08-03T22:27:37 < englishman> so far the only moderating on stm32-liberia has been kicking laurent
2021-08-03T22:28:35 < englishman> http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/temp.php
2021-08-03T22:28:38 < englishman> out of stock everywhere
2021-08-03T22:28:42 < englishman> another victim of the shortage
2021-08-03T22:28:53 < englishman> the production dept. is absolutely wrecked, they have no idea what to do
2021-08-03T22:31:23 < Steffanx> ventyl, yeah.. because you strike me as a person would actually do it ;)
2021-08-03T22:32:59 < ventyl> englishman: smack avr-usb with bitbanged dallas onto some atmega and profit?
2021-08-03T22:35:46 < englishman> i started moving cheap things like this to FT4232 type things, with no firmware inside
2021-08-03T22:35:49 < englishman> one less thing to manage
2021-08-03T22:53:14 < Steffanx> with some desktop software control the uart/io englishman?
2021-08-03T22:56:36 < englishman> one software specifically
2021-08-03T22:56:38 < englishman> that is well-loved
2021-08-03T22:56:50 < englishman> you may have heard of it
2021-08-03T22:56:51 < ventyl> hm, putting shim under RTOS will improve my chances to unit test RTOS kernel
2021-08-03T22:57:18 < ventyl> englishman: one, scientists love to develop in?
2021-08-03T22:57:31 < englishman> they do indeed love it
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2021-08-03T23:29:03 < fenugrec> englishman, this harvest features high dynamic range https://ibb.co/D1pRK2M , how's yours ?
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2021-08-03T23:41:14 < kakium69> hello 69ers
2021-08-03T23:41:25 < Steffanx> if you say labview, i will cry englishman
2021-08-03T23:43:40 < qyx> don't dare to
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2021-08-03T23:48:47 < bitmask> hmmm i bought these tiny batteries and i completely forget what they are for
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2021-08-03T23:49:38 < bitmask> ohhh jesus, stupid loupe lights
2021-08-03T23:49:51 < Steffanx> Jesus. Where?
2021-08-03T23:50:22 < bitmask> hah
2021-08-03T23:59:12 < bitmask> he's giving it to your mom right now, up the pooper
--- Day changed Wed Aug 04 2021
2021-08-04T00:01:33 < qyx> BrainDamage: re 1/f noise, it is there even when PGA inputs are shorted using 1R resistor and biased in the middle using 1M bridge
2021-08-04T00:14:20 < englishman> what else could it possibly be steffy steff
2021-08-04T00:14:33 < englishman> fenugrec: wow very nice
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2021-08-04T00:56:03 < octorian> I can't believe I somehow managed to order a handful of STML072KBU chips from Mouser this morning.  And somehow their website is still showing the same number in stock as it showed before I ordered.
2021-08-04T00:56:12 < octorian> (and my order is already marked as shipped)
2021-08-04T00:56:21 < octorian> er, STM32L072KBU
2021-08-04T00:56:52 < octorian> I really want to move to this MCU from the STM32L052 for the next revision of my current project, so its good to know that I'm actually going to be able to do that now.
2021-08-04T01:01:44 < bitmask> heh went a little crazy ordering barrel jack cables: https://i.imgur.com/p2EoTRK.jpg
2021-08-04T01:02:17 < bitmask> I havent used any L series, its low power right?
2021-08-04T01:03:11 < ventyl> yes
2021-08-04T01:04:37 < qyx> low power and awesome
2021-08-04T01:07:29 < octorian> Last time I needed a cable for something external (and it wasn't power), I ended up going with mini-DIN.  Felt a little weird buying PS/2 cables and slicing them in half, but I couldn't find a better choice.
2021-08-04T01:08:45 < bitmask> 2 gallons of water RO filtered, what next, guess I should bring some unused stuff to the attic
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2021-08-04T01:17:23 < sauce> bitmask: good move tbh, i havent found a reasonably priced barrel connector that doesnt suck to hand assemble
2021-08-04T01:31:14 < bitmask> yea i used to just get those shitty ends that you have to solder to but they were aweful. this way I get good quality ends with 2 conductor cables and not just two separate wires hangin out
2021-08-04T01:33:05 < bitmask> i mean if i could find better quality ones it wouldnt have been so bad but these are just terrible: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124524682340
2021-08-04T01:54:17 < bitmask> cleaned up a bit, time to try and figure out this dma again
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2021-08-04T05:16:57 < R2COM> this Dear ImGui looks cool, but it just basically C code with some templates and namespace... its not real "c++" gui
2021-08-04T05:17:18 < R2COM> massive code with all stuff stacked in namespaces...
2021-08-04T05:17:21 < R2COM> namespace*
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2021-08-04T06:58:04 < jpa-> R2COM: what makes code "real c++"?
2021-08-04T06:58:16 < jpa-> if classes, templates and namespaces are not enough
2021-08-04T07:00:19 < jpa-> if you want retained objects for each widget, then *immediate* mode gui is probably not what you want
2021-08-04T07:01:35 < ds2> there is i (for physics guys) or j (for EEs)? :D
2021-08-04T07:01:51 < ds2> thre is NO
2021-08-04T07:08:39 < R2COM> its not using classes, it uses very basic template absolute simplest one and just basic namespace
2021-08-04T07:08:50 < R2COM> its not using anything from any modern or even c++11
2021-08-04T07:09:28 < R2COM> jpa- i did not say that i need other gui, i do need immediate gui
2021-08-04T07:09:50 < R2COM> what im saying is, latest c++ packs lots of neat stuff, which could have been used
2021-08-04T07:09:59 < R2COM> but code is just huge coollections of functions in namespace
2021-08-04T07:10:01 < R2COM> nothing fancy
2021-08-04T07:10:08 < R2COM> oh..
2021-08-04T07:10:14 < R2COM> it even says it in comments haha
2021-08-04T07:10:16 < jpa-> ah, so it should be fancy to be "real c++" :)
2021-08-04T07:10:47 < R2COM> "C++: this is a very C-ish codebase: we don't rely on C++11,"
2021-08-04T07:10:49 < R2COM> lol
2021-08-04T07:10:55 < R2COM> of course
2021-08-04T07:11:33 < R2COM> im not going to use 70s fiat as a daily driver, although technicall it could do the job of getting me to work and back
2021-08-04T07:12:38 < R2COM> im trying to grasp more of c++ these days
2021-08-04T07:12:55 < jpa-> true, you would use a bicycle like any modern climate-conscious being
2021-08-04T07:13:48 < R2COM> my work is 40 miles (multiply by 1.6 to get km) away, and ... uh... where was that clown face mawk gave me other day
2021-08-04T07:13:55 < R2COM> i need to save it so i can paste it here whenever needed
2021-08-04T07:27:56 < R2COM> where the fuck is dongs?
2021-08-04T07:28:59 < R2COM> lo
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2021-08-04T08:15:10 < zyp> imagine wasting that much of your life having to commute 40 miles and back every day
2021-08-04T08:15:18 < zyp> even by car
2021-08-04T08:18:07 < jpa-> maybe driving around with locked doors feels safer than sitting at home holding your gun in case robbers come
2021-08-04T08:21:33 < R2COM> 🤡
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2021-08-04T11:23:33 < Steffanx> Lol jpa- achievement unlocked.
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2021-08-04T12:44:17 < qyx> oh nice https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/xdm2041/digitalne-multimetre-stacionarne/owon/
2021-08-04T12:44:26 < qyx> 4.5 digi only though
2021-08-04T12:44:32 < qyx> with data logging and stuff
2021-08-04T12:44:51 < jpa-> qyx: lol don't buy
2021-08-04T12:44:57 < qyx> nope?
2021-08-04T12:45:01 < jpa-> http://essentialscrap.com/owon_fix/index.html
2021-08-04T12:48:17 < jpa-> and no fancy graphs or anything.. the hardware would be capable but the firmware seems to be made intentionally featureless
2021-08-04T12:49:18 < qyx> so whats the resolution here, are we going to make ##stm32 opensauce dmm with usb?
2021-08-04T12:49:47 < jpa-> you could make ##stm32 firmware for xdm2041 and send it to me
2021-08-04T12:51:05 < qyx> so if I get it right, wrong crystal frequency positioned the 50 Hz filter notch elsewhere
2021-08-04T12:51:24 < jpa-> not really, they haven't even tried to get it right
2021-08-04T12:51:53 < qyx> tweaking oversampling ration should help too if they wanted, shouldn't it?
2021-08-04T12:52:14 < jpa-> yeah, though it is only 2^n dividers so they would have to set it to lowest and downsample in software
2021-08-04T12:52:32 < jpa-> but yeah, it would be entirely fixable in software if they wanted
2021-08-04T12:55:55 < qyx> ok, not buying anything
2021-08-04T12:56:01 < qyx> I'll fix my noise first
2021-08-04T12:58:08 < jpa-> the UT8802E is a reasonable alternative, logging etc. is easier done on PC anyway
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2021-08-04T13:27:29 < englishman> GD32 inside, nice
2021-08-04T13:29:20 < englishman> nice work there jpa
2021-08-04T13:31:08 < Mangy_Dog> Thats a thought, how much of a drop in replacment is the GD32?
2021-08-04T13:31:11 < Mangy_Dog> for f103?
2021-08-04T13:31:20 < Mangy_Dog> does it just work?
2021-08-04T13:31:26 < Mangy_Dog> or are there other considerations needed?
2021-08-04T13:47:43 < qyx> karlp: no swo init needed? https://github.com/karlp/blog-code-samples-swo/blob/master/swo-1-printf/main.c
2021-08-04T13:48:11 < qyx> except _write and trace_send_blocking
2021-08-04T13:50:18 < karlp> not in the target code.  debugger host should do all that.
2021-08-04T13:50:52 < qyx> k, copypasted your code
2021-08-04T13:50:54 < karlp> (IMO)
2021-08-04T13:50:59 < qyx> now try to persuade openocd
2021-08-04T13:51:29 < karlp> just add "tpiu config internal swo.dump.log uart off 32000000"  (that's sysclok in hz)
2021-08-04T13:51:47 < karlp> (for stlink at least)
2021-08-04T13:52:58 < qyx> SWO frequency is not suitable. Please choose a different frequency.
2021-08-04T13:53:07 < qyx> no worky
2021-08-04T13:53:16 < karlp> what?
2021-08-04T13:53:25 < qyx> > tpiu config internal - uart off 32000000
2021-08-04T13:53:25 < qyx> SWO frequency is not suitable. Please choose a different frequency.
2021-08-04T13:53:46 < qyx> (it is running using 32M MSI)
2021-08-04T13:53:52 < karlp> never seen that error before.
2021-08-04T13:54:08 < karlp> what version of oocd are you on? brand new master actually went and mangled all this config.
2021-08-04T13:54:15 < qyx> anything other than 168 000 000 doesn't work
2021-08-04T13:54:31 < PaulFertser> stlink can't capture over 4 MHz SWO or some such
2021-08-04T13:54:32 < karlp> um, poke paul? 
2021-08-04T13:54:47 < qyx> this is stlink v3
2021-08-04T13:54:51 < qyx> I tried 4 MHz too
2021-08-04T13:54:59 < karlp> PaulFertser: the parameter isn't the swo clock, it's meant to be the sysclock, so it knows what dividers to use.
2021-08-04T13:55:05 < karlp> never tried a stlinkv3 sorry.
2021-08-04T13:55:12 < PaulFertser> karlp: heh, little do I know :)
2021-08-04T13:55:39 < karlp> I'd suspect wonky v3 impleentation?
2021-08-04T13:55:42 < qyx> this is Open On-Chip Debugger 0.11.0-rc1-snapshot (2020-12-10-11:15)
2021-08-04T13:55:46 < qyx> I can try v2.1
2021-08-04T13:55:50 < qyx> one moment
2021-08-04T13:57:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: you can see if that message is emitted because the prescaler needed is too big or if it's due to the 3 % freq deviation limit.
2021-08-04T13:58:19 < PaulFertser> stlinkv3 should be able to do up to 24 MHz capture.
2021-08-04T13:58:56 < qyx> works with Info : STLINK V2J27M15 (API v2) VID:PID 0483:374B
2021-08-04T13:59:09 < qyx> at least it doesn't show the error
2021-08-04T13:59:12 < qyx> no output though
2021-08-04T13:59:19 < qyx> oh I need to connect SWO
2021-08-04T14:01:45 < PaulFertser> qyx: guess I can see how the code makes it bad if you rely on autoselection for the SWO frequency.
2021-08-04T14:05:20 < PaulFertser> BTW, the way to configure TPIU changed, see the current manual for "tpiu create" etc. There you can set explicit SWO frequency with "-pin-freq" and then the appropriate divider will be calculated (it currently tries the maximum freq instead, but you can't divide 32 to 24, hence the error).
2021-08-04T14:08:12 < qyx> no output on the scope
2021-08-04T14:12:26 < PaulFertser> Notified the developer: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/5908/2/src/jtag/drivers/stlink_usb.c@3018
2021-08-04T14:14:41 < qyx> oh so you are saying it should work wg. with 48 MHz clock?
2021-08-04T14:14:53 < qyx> or any other multiple of max trace clk?
2021-08-04T14:15:35 < PaulFertser> qyx: I'd expect it to.
2021-08-04T14:16:02 < PaulFertser> Or if you set SWO to 16M
2021-08-04T14:16:41 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: AFAIK it is mostly compatible in code, but code timing is a bit different because the flash interface is different
2021-08-04T14:17:01 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: also the GD32F103 I2C does not have all of the bugs that we love about STM32F103
2021-08-04T14:17:10 < Mangy_Dog> all the bugs? :
2021-08-04T14:17:12 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2021-08-04T14:17:19 < Mangy_Dog> does it program with a stlink?
2021-08-04T14:17:28 < Mangy_Dog> can freertos run on it?
2021-08-04T14:18:32 < jpa-> yeah, works with stlink, freertos runs like on STM32F103
2021-08-04T14:18:52 < jpa-> it's the same CPU and mostly compatible peripherals
2021-08-04T14:18:53 < PaulFertser> qyx: just try adding 16000000 after your 32000000
2021-08-04T14:19:20 < qyx> I just tried tpiu config internal swo.out uart off 32000000 4000000
2021-08-04T14:19:23 < qyx> and it works
2021-08-04T14:19:35 < qyx> with 16e6 too
2021-08-04T14:19:50 < Mangy_Dog> nods im just wondering about getting some gd32f103s as a cheaper maybe more available alternative to the stm32s....
2021-08-04T14:20:04 < Mangy_Dog> but they do need to be drop in replacments 
2021-08-04T14:20:15 < Mangy_Dog> running on same code
2021-08-04T14:20:35 < jpa-> you can certainly make the same code to run on both, but i wouldn't be surprised if you need to make small changes
2021-08-04T14:20:47 < Mangy_Dog> what kind of changes?
2021-08-04T14:21:17 < jpa-> like, different timing may expose some bug that didn't happen before; or if there is some small difference in how some peripheral works, you may need to adjust code so that it can handle both
2021-08-04T14:21:28 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-08-04T14:22:03 < Mangy_Dog> One thing i did have to do iwith the rogerclarks core is change a couple of GPIO perfs so i could use the pins as raw gpio
2021-08-04T14:22:13 < Mangy_Dog> otherwisded they default to something else
2021-08-04T14:26:44 < PaulFertser> qyx: so you got data now? What was wrong?
2021-08-04T14:28:41 < qyx> fuk it works now
2021-08-04T14:28:47 < qyx> are you curious?
2021-08-04T14:29:01 < qyx> #if DEBUG_SEMIHOSTING .. printf(..
2021-08-04T14:29:01 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-08-04T14:29:13 < ventyl> :D
2021-08-04T14:29:49 < qyx> also itm port 0 on
2021-08-04T14:29:55 < PaulFertser> Isn't it default?
2021-08-04T14:30:33 < qyx> oh it is
2021-08-04T14:30:37 < qyx> works without it too
2021-08-04T14:30:57 < qyx> 16 MHz gives garbage
2021-08-04T14:31:35 < qyx> 8 MHz too sometimes, a char is missing every couple of lins
2021-08-04T14:31:39 < qyx> 4 MHz looks reliable
2021-08-04T14:34:46 < PaulFertser> I can imagine 16 MHz needing proper wiring.
2021-08-04T14:35:08 < qyx> I have the properest original stlink v3 wiring
2021-08-04T14:36:55 < qyx> oh yeah the MCU runs at 1V8
2021-08-04T14:39:54 < PaulFertser> Sounds like a hw issue with signal integrity.
2021-08-04T14:47:13 < qyx> any idea why it puts a 0x01 before every char?
2021-08-04T14:47:25 < qyx> is the data in a specific format?
2021-08-04T14:47:50 < PaulFertser> qyx: sure
2021-08-04T14:48:15 < PaulFertser> qyx: contrib/itmdecode.c is a dumb parser for it
2021-08-04T14:48:21 < PaulFertser> orbtrace is a much smarter one
2021-08-04T14:48:38 < PaulFertser> And there're e.g. Perl libraries and other solutions to interpreting the data.
2021-08-04T14:49:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: even with just ITM you still have many channels and your debugger software can enable or disable reporting of those needed.
2021-08-04T14:58:00 < karlp> orbcat -c 4,"my hurdur channel data: %d" -c 5,"%x microPaddocks/nonago" etc....
2021-08-04T14:58:07 < karlp> format host side...
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2021-08-04T16:34:56 < bitmask> yet another day has come
2021-08-04T16:34:58 < bitmask> hello
2021-08-04T16:41:33 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2021-08-04T16:52:24 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask. 
2021-08-04T16:52:33 < bitmask> how you do
2021-08-04T16:57:39 < Steffanx> Fine. Good. Something like that.
2021-08-04T16:57:44 < qyx> PaulFertser: you need that itm port 0 on
2021-08-04T17:00:39 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-04T17:02:55 < jpa-> heh, dialog semiconductors is cold calling people with "Hey, replace all your missing chips with GreenPAK, we have stock!"
2021-08-04T17:17:32 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-04T17:19:47 < Steffanx> Are you people, jpa- ?
2021-08-04T17:20:57 < zyp> jpa-, do they have greenpak with cortex-m now?
2021-08-04T17:22:49 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2021-08-04T17:28:25 < jpa-> zyp: no, but i hear you only need 5000 greenpak chips to synthetize one that runs at 100kHz
2021-08-04T17:53:26 < zyp> haha
2021-08-04T17:53:37 < zyp> that's only ten reels :)
2021-08-04T18:46:15 < tct> hard fault on FMC usage - welcome back, old days. I missed you.
2021-08-04T18:46:25 < tct> s/on/during/g
2021-08-04T18:49:16 < mawk> g
2021-08-04T18:49:28 < mawk> #decide 42
2021-08-04T18:49:28 < xnand> 42
2021-08-04T18:49:31 < mawk> #decide a b c
2021-08-04T18:49:32 < xnand> a b c
2021-08-04T18:49:34 < mawk> :(((
2021-08-04T18:54:06 < Steffanx> #decide a | b | c
2021-08-04T18:54:06 < xnand> c
2021-08-04T18:58:33 < englishman> #decide keepban | unban
2021-08-04T18:58:33 < xnand> keepban 
2021-08-04T18:58:37 < englishman> yes sir
2021-08-04T19:03:51 < b-rex> #decide #decide | #decide | #decide
2021-08-04T19:03:51 < xnand> #decide
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2021-08-04T19:25:00 < Steffanx> Haha, lol
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2021-08-04T21:33:44 < tct> I can´t get the PLL3 on an STM32H750 to initialize. it eventually calls RCCEx_PLL3_Config() which sets up the PLL. There´s a while() loop waiting for __HAL_RCC_GET_FLAG(RCC_FLAG_PLL3RDY) but it never reports to be ready so eventually it returns HAL_TIMEOUT
2021-08-04T21:33:46 < tct> any ideas?
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2021-08-04T21:34:18 < qyx> does H750 even has PLL3?
2021-08-04T21:34:27 < qyx> *have
2021-08-04T21:34:28 < tct> according to CubeMX yes
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2021-08-04T21:47:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: http://openocd.org/ OK now?
2021-08-04T21:53:09 < tct> yes
2021-08-04T22:01:06 < Steffanx> Si señor PaulFertser. Es muy bueno.
2021-08-04T22:01:21 < Steffanx> Maybe the menu is a bit high now, but much better than before.
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2021-08-04T22:25:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: thank you :)
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2021-08-04T22:37:23 < ventyl> is there any affordable* barebone HW with STM32 x3/4/7 available anywhere in europe?
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2021-08-04T22:37:43 < ventyl> something like blue/black pill
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2021-08-04T22:47:31 < englishman> looks like tme has some nucleos
2021-08-04T22:50:16 < ventyl> I'd like F/G4 and x7 in form factor of nucleo-F303K8
2021-08-04T22:50:24 < ventyl> so it won't take up a lot of space
2021-08-04T22:51:14 < qyx> what is x7?
2021-08-04T22:51:29 < ventyl> F7/H7
2021-08-04T22:52:32 < qyx> you can get F7 in a stlink v3 mini :>
2021-08-04T22:53:17 < englishman> ^^
2021-08-04T22:53:37 < ventyl> that's indeed compact form factor
2021-08-04T22:55:37 < Mangy_Dog> jesus decided to take a look at the GD32 clone
2021-08-04T22:55:44 < Mangy_Dog> its still roughly 5 quid per chip
2021-08-04T22:55:50 < Mangy_Dog> for a sodding fake stm32
2021-08-04T22:55:59 < Mangy_Dog> clone whatever
2021-08-04T22:58:29 < Steffanx> its because everyone and his mother wants this chip now
2021-08-04T22:59:29 < Mangy_Dog> what i dont get is, why cant stm32f103 pump out more chips?
2021-08-04T22:59:42 < Mangy_Dog> its in a high yeild high nm wafer
2021-08-04T23:00:03 < Mangy_Dog> why are simple basic mcus still getting stuck right now
2021-08-04T23:00:11 < qyx> I would not dare to touch f103 anymore
2021-08-04T23:00:22 < Mangy_Dog> (simple and basic in a relitive term)
2021-08-04T23:00:23 < ventyl> if demand is higher, it may take 50+ weeks to obtain more capacities
2021-08-04T23:01:19 < Mangy_Dog> qyx because of supply or something else?
2021-08-04T23:01:43 < qyx> because it is old
2021-08-04T23:03:21 < Mangy_Dog> but still very capable
2021-08-04T23:03:27 < Mangy_Dog> and before covid
2021-08-04T23:03:30 < Mangy_Dog> very affordable
2021-08-04T23:05:03 < qyx> for the same reason you don't use MH7400 from Tesla Piestany anymore in 2021
2021-08-04T23:05:24 < qyx> despite having boxes full of them in the basement
2021-08-04T23:05:32 < Mangy_Dog> for a simular form factor qfn48
2021-08-04T23:05:37 < Mangy_Dog> whats your go to for most projects now?
2021-08-04T23:05:56 < Steffanx> esp32 since stm32 is unobtanium
2021-08-04T23:06:15 < Mangy_Dog> my biggest issue with esp32 is lack of io
2021-08-04T23:06:26 < Mangy_Dog> also isnt the program stored in external flash?
2021-08-04T23:06:33 < Mangy_Dog> like pico?
2021-08-04T23:07:05 < englishman> gd32 aren't cloned
2021-08-04T23:07:12 < englishman> gigadevice is a legit arm licensee
2021-08-04T23:07:29 < englishman> they even fix stm32's bugs
2021-08-04T23:07:30 < specing> legit clone
2021-08-04T23:09:47 < Mangy_Dog> sheesh
2021-08-04T23:10:03 < Steffanx> Hows your phd going specing?
2021-08-04T23:10:03 < Mangy_Dog> even from lscs 7.6 dollars for gd32f103cb
2021-08-04T23:10:56 < ventyl> pico cost like 3 euros
2021-08-04T23:10:58 < ventyl> maybe less
2021-08-04T23:11:30 < Mangy_Dog> not going to lie... the pico is interesting
2021-08-04T23:11:44 < qyx> it doesn't have all the pro tools
2021-08-04T23:11:44 < Mangy_Dog> im not convinced a pi own brand mcu is ....
2021-08-04T23:11:46 < qyx> like CubeMX
2021-08-04T23:11:51 < Mangy_Dog> trustworthy
2021-08-04T23:12:02 < Mangy_Dog> i dont use cubemx admitidly
2021-08-04T23:12:28 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: I am playing with it and so far it is consistent. datashit is crappy yet
2021-08-04T23:12:37 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhmm
2021-08-04T23:13:06 < Mangy_Dog> is there a freertos for it?
2021-08-04T23:13:26 < Mangy_Dog> im also curious how you split tasks across two cores though
2021-08-04T23:13:40 < ventyl> I made initial support for locm3
2021-08-04T23:13:46 < ventyl> and ported my creepy RTOS onto it
2021-08-04T23:13:53 < ventyl> so freertos should be doable too
2021-08-04T23:13:57 < Steffanx> someone must have ported it already
2021-08-04T23:14:12 < ventyl> after all, it is just stock Cortex-M0+
2021-08-04T23:14:23 < ventyl> you can ignore secondary core if you with
2021-08-04T23:14:25 < ventyl> wish
2021-08-04T23:14:37 < ventyl> or boot two independent instances of freertos
2021-08-04T23:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> might as well use it if its there
2021-08-04T23:14:46 < ventyl> it should work
2021-08-04T23:14:57 < Mangy_Dog> esp as my projects are getting stupidly complicated these days
2021-08-04T23:15:08 < Mangy_Dog> this tricorder is really pushing the limits of the f103 i think
2021-08-04T23:15:28 < Mangy_Dog> ive not really notice any real slow downs or hickups
2021-08-04T23:15:35 < Mangy_Dog> just.... a feeling!
2021-08-04T23:15:36 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2021-08-04T23:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2021-08-04T23:16:22 < Steffanx> https://github.com/FreeRTOS/FreeRTOS-Kernel/tree/smp 
2021-08-04T23:16:32 < Mangy_Dog> i think most of my project work is fine on f103. and maybe the only real big benifit of putting it on a newer chip would be better power efficancy 
2021-08-04T23:17:16 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2021-08-04T23:17:21 < Mangy_Dog> so its been ported alreayd
2021-08-04T23:17:23 < ventyl> oh... this is awful
2021-08-04T23:18:57 < Steffanx> what is mr ventyl
2021-08-04T23:19:08 < ventyl> FreeRTOS is
2021-08-04T23:19:19 < Steffanx> if you say so
2021-08-04T23:19:29 < ventyl> it's naming conventions are meh
2021-08-04T23:19:29 < Mangy_Dog> ive got on ok with it
2021-08-04T23:19:39 < Mangy_Dog> though ive not gone toooo deep into it yet
2021-08-04T23:19:42 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2021-08-04T23:19:43 < ventyl> I rather wrote my own RTOS than dealing with it
2021-08-04T23:19:49 < Mangy_Dog> xthread fthread blah
2021-08-04T23:19:52 < Mangy_Dog> confusing as fuck tbh
2021-08-04T23:19:56 < ventyl> ^^^
2021-08-04T23:20:03 < Mangy_Dog> i have to have the website open to keep track
2021-08-04T23:20:10 < Mangy_Dog> the docs
2021-08-04T23:20:33 < Steffanx> That's what docs are for. I really have no real issues with the naming convention
2021-08-04T23:21:01 < Mangy_Dog> question about the RP2040...
2021-08-04T23:21:12 < Mangy_Dog> so the program is stored on the external flash
2021-08-04T23:21:26 < Mangy_Dog> but you got to use USB to upload the binary?
2021-08-04T23:21:35 < ventyl> that's an option
2021-08-04T23:21:36 < Mangy_Dog> and the flash is fat32 or something?
2021-08-04T23:21:43 < Mangy_Dog> or can you just run a programmer on it?
2021-08-04T23:21:53 < ventyl> you can use swd, there's support in openocd (unofficial)
2021-08-04T23:21:54 < ventyl> yet!
2021-08-04T23:21:59 < Mangy_Dog> as the first suggests that theres some kind of perminant bootloader on the mcu
2021-08-04T23:22:02 < ventyl> you need multidrop SWD support in your probe
2021-08-04T23:22:23 < ventyl> so stlink is out of game, so is vast majority of other probes
2021-08-04T23:22:31 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2021-08-04T23:22:43 < ventyl> interestingly, rpi-pico can be used as SWD adapter for rpi-pico :)
2021-08-04T23:23:00 < ventyl> alternatively you can use GPIO on rpi, if you have one, it also has multidrop support
2021-08-04T23:23:33 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-08-04T23:23:44 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-08-04T23:24:08 < ventyl> gdb load command / openocd flash infrastructure then uses routines in bootrom to write program into external flash
2021-08-04T23:24:12 < ventyl> it is transparent for you
2021-08-04T23:24:38 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-08-04T23:25:53 < specing> Steffanx: there's no phd lol, ain't got the willpower for that
2021-08-04T23:26:05 < specing> Steffanx: imagine me ending up like Laurenceb_ lol
2021-08-04T23:26:27 < Mangy_Dog> wait wtf hell?
2021-08-04T23:26:39 < Mangy_Dog> so your flash chip to store the program on uses the qspi
2021-08-04T23:26:54 < Mangy_Dog> but using that qspi for your program flash chip leaves you with zero hardware spi
2021-08-04T23:27:05 < ventyl> there are two SPIs
2021-08-04T23:27:08 < ventyl> or maybe three
2021-08-04T23:27:27 < Mangy_Dog> not according to the datasheet pin out
2021-08-04T23:27:36 < Mangy_Dog> it looks like the qspi is the 2 spi hardwares
2021-08-04T23:27:50 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-08-04T23:28:02 < ventyl> nope, there is SPI peripheral and SSI peripheral, which is used to implement QSPI
2021-08-04T23:28:13 < ventyl> SPI lives in bank 0, QSPI has it's own bank
2021-08-04T23:28:37 < ventyl> you can load your software from flash into RAM, disconnect flash and use QSPI for your own purposes if you want
2021-08-04T23:28:47 < ventyl> if SPI in bank0 is not sufficient for you
2021-08-04T23:28:56 < Mangy_Dog> id say this though
2021-08-04T23:29:05 < Mangy_Dog> SPI TX SPI RX
2021-08-04T23:29:08 < Mangy_Dog> uuughhhh!
2021-08-04T23:29:49 < Mangy_Dog> ok found the other 2 spis
2021-08-04T23:29:55 < Mangy_Dog> yeah they are on other pins
2021-08-04T23:30:19 < ventyl> it has rather capable cross-bar, so you can locate SPI on pretty much any pin you wish
2021-08-04T23:30:43 < Mangy_Dog> sooooo TX is MOSI, RX is MISO ?
2021-08-04T23:30:46 < ventyl> but I didn't get that far
2021-08-04T23:30:50 < ventyl> it seems
2021-08-04T23:31:10 < Mangy_Dog> ahhh thats what crossbar means....
2021-08-04T23:31:20 < ventyl> one interesting feature of external flash and the way how it is supported is, that reset isn't complete
2021-08-04T23:31:23 < Mangy_Dog> so nearly liturally any pin can be routed to hardware ports
2021-08-04T23:31:39 < ventyl> yeah, there are some limitations, but it is rather flexible
2021-08-04T23:31:45 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2021-08-04T23:37:18 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-209-81.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-04T23:37:42 < Steffanx> mawk: 
2021-08-04T23:39:17 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5L3JwHiGp0 stay pure
2021-08-04T23:40:29 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-04T23:41:56 < Steffanx> Enough internet for today kakium69 
2021-08-04T23:42:17 < kakium69> I just started
2021-08-04T23:42:30 < Steffanx> specing: for some reason I got the idea you had plans in this way. 
2021-08-04T23:43:07 < englishman> apparently dialight isn't making components anymore ?!?
2021-08-04T23:43:25 < englishman> everything is obsolete and you can't even find datasheets on their fucking website
2021-08-04T23:43:35 < Mangy_Dog> omfg lol
2021-08-04T23:43:46 < Mangy_Dog> im about as unpure and unclean as it gets
2021-08-04T23:44:16 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: https://github.com/ventZl/libopencm3/tree/rp2040 fyi
2021-08-04T23:44:55 < Mangy_Dog> i do want to learn libopencm3
2021-08-04T23:45:52 < ventyl> not that this has broad support
2021-08-04T23:48:25 < Mangy_Dog> today ive done absolutly nothing on trying to figure out how to make some scrolling text
2021-08-04T23:48:40 < Mangy_Dog> well not quite true done some work
2021-08-04T23:48:45 < Mangy_Dog> but no where near as much as id like to have
2021-08-04T23:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> maybe 10 minutes worth at most
2021-08-04T23:49:11 < ventyl> there are days like this
2021-08-04T23:49:31 < Mangy_Dog> how well do you know star trek voyager?
2021-08-04T23:50:03 < ventyl> not much
2021-08-04T23:50:17 < Mangy_Dog> The effect im trying to make is tryign to copy something as seen on some of the lcars
2021-08-04T23:50:19 < ventyl> I'd know more about DS9, even more about TNG and something about originals
2021-08-04T23:50:23 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2021-08-04T23:50:36 < Mangy_Dog> ok in some displays theres columns of text (numbers)
2021-08-04T23:50:50 < Mangy_Dog> each column scrolls indipendantly
2021-08-04T23:51:08 < Mangy_Dog> sooo im going to make a class for the colume and just make objects for each column of text easy!
2021-08-04T23:51:11 < Mangy_Dog> ok tricky bit
2021-08-04T23:51:41 < ventyl> depends on how much abstract you can afford it to be
2021-08-04T23:52:07 < Mangy_Dog> the effect is ... column scrolls and settles at a point, then the text colour drops down like a selector... Again fairly easy... but mix in some random black scroll downs as well to that
2021-08-04T23:52:16 < Mangy_Dog> like memory fragmenttaion
2021-08-04T23:52:36 < Mangy_Dog> its a nice looking effect but its complicated
2021-08-04T23:53:05 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the first stage is simple getting a generated columb of numbers to scroll correctly... I wanted to get that done today
2021-08-04T23:53:09 < Mangy_Dog> but its been a wasted day
2021-08-04T23:53:12 < Mangy_Dog> just not had it in me
2021-08-04T23:53:19 < Mangy_Dog> and also had to go out to the benifit office today
2021-08-04T23:53:42 < Mangy_Dog> and have an argument to the jobsworth about how im not doing enough to find a job..... When ive applied to 20 jobs this last week
2021-08-04T23:54:13 < Mangy_Dog> but thats a rant for another day
2021-08-04T23:54:18 < Mangy_Dog> anyway its wasted the day for me
2021-08-04T23:54:19 < ventyl> how can anyone capable of doing MCU coding problem to find a job?
2021-08-04T23:54:31 < Mangy_Dog> part of the issue is where i live
2021-08-04T23:54:35 < Mangy_Dog> there isnt that many techy roles in norfolk
2021-08-04T23:54:38 < Mangy_Dog> loads in cambridge
2021-08-04T23:54:46 < Mangy_Dog> but they have a revolving door direct off the campas
2021-08-04T23:55:10 < ventyl> today you can work fully remotely
2021-08-04T23:55:20 < Mangy_Dog> in the last 3 or 4 years ive applied to well ocer 800 jobs
2021-08-04T23:55:20 < kakium69> ventyl: yes
2021-08-04T23:55:28 < Mangy_Dog> over
2021-08-04T23:55:38 < kakium69> if you don't have masters in any uni
2021-08-04T23:55:43 < Mangy_Dog> ^^
2021-08-04T23:55:51 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have any formal qualifications
2021-08-04T23:55:53 < Mangy_Dog> im self taught
2021-08-04T23:56:03 < Mangy_Dog> its part of the reason i do a youtube channel on my stuff
2021-08-04T23:56:07 < Mangy_Dog> to double as a portfolio
2021-08-04T23:56:22 < kakium69> it limits possibilities by factor of.. 10?
2021-08-04T23:56:24 < Mangy_Dog> this tricorder projects going to get a big video on how it was developed
2021-08-04T23:56:30 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: i'd say that if you have any track record of doing development for moneyz, formal education doesn't matter anymore
2021-08-04T23:57:07 < kakium69> if you cannot do embedded linux - and that in certain flavour they preffer - limit possible positions by factor of 10
2021-08-04T23:57:25 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know embedded linux either
2021-08-04T23:57:33 < Mangy_Dog> just mcu level stuff
2021-08-04T23:57:34 < ventyl> my ex-coworker from 10 years ago only formal education was CRT TV repairman. he is one of the best developers I was working with and nowadays he gets offers every now and then
2021-08-04T23:57:40 < Mangy_Dog> and mostly in arduino like enviroments 
2021-08-04T23:57:51 < Mangy_Dog> but am willing to learn what ever enviroment the company runs in
2021-08-04T23:58:06 < Mangy_Dog> but i do want to broaden my horizons... hense libopencm3
2021-08-04T23:58:14 < ventyl> I'd say that embedded linux doesn't really exist as a stuff
2021-08-04T23:58:38 < ventyl> it is just plain linux stuff, you just have to know how to bring up your cross-compiler
2021-08-04T23:58:58 < kakium69> if they want linux guy
2021-08-04T23:59:23 < kakium69> they want someone who casually writes drivers and tinker with kernel
2021-08-04T23:59:42 < ventyl> this happens sometimes, but certainly not all the time
2021-08-04T23:59:54 < ventyl> now I have linux embedded contract, no kernel work at all
--- Day changed Thu Aug 05 2021
2021-08-05T00:00:24 < ventyl> they all ask for kernel stuff, just in case
2021-08-05T00:00:34 < kakium69> :o
2021-08-05T00:00:38 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-05T00:00:44 < kakium69> but they need that guy
2021-08-05T00:01:04 < kakium69> they always need that guy
2021-08-05T00:01:14 < ventyl> they think they need that guy
2021-08-05T00:01:35 < Mangy_Dog> and the thing is im a maker too
2021-08-05T00:01:47 < Mangy_Dog> so i also bring chassis design and prototyping to the table 
2021-08-05T00:01:56 < kakium69> ventyl: you work at application level?
2021-08-05T00:02:02 < Mangy_Dog> as well as juniour-intermediate electronics design and PCB design
2021-08-05T00:02:08 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2021-08-05T00:02:15 < kakium69> same same Mangy_Dog
2021-08-05T00:02:17 < ventyl> kakium69: I am creep. I put my filthy hands everywhere. sooner or later.
2021-08-05T00:02:33 < ventyl> I do everything from bare metal to network distributed shit
2021-08-05T00:03:06 < ventyl> sometimes I fix stuff everyone says is unfixable
2021-08-05T00:04:15 < kakium69> you are the problem solver
2021-08-05T00:05:00 < ventyl> I am just curious, and curiosity leads to interesting knowledge which sometimes has useful applications
2021-08-05T00:14:04 < ventyl> satellite + linux
2021-08-05T00:14:06 < ventyl> well done
2021-08-05T00:14:25 < ventyl> kakium69: here we come, embedded linux job, no sign of kernel hacking so far
2021-08-05T00:21:41 < kakium69> how did you get the jubb
2021-08-05T00:21:47 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-05T00:21:47 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-05T00:22:04 < ventyl> this is just an offer
2021-08-05T00:22:17 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-05T00:22:17 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-05T00:22:26 < ventyl> it is pretty much sufficient to open linkedin and you have at least one daily
2021-08-05T00:22:51 < kakium69> yaiks
2021-08-05T00:22:52 < Steffanx> Especially when you say you're available 
2021-08-05T00:23:01 < Steffanx> Ill endorse your irc skills kakium69 
2021-08-05T00:23:14 < ventyl> IME that doesn't make much differnce
2021-08-05T00:23:16 < Steffanx> I have mine endorsed. 🥳
2021-08-05T00:23:25 < kakium69> "he is completelly normal guy. not weird at all"
2021-08-05T00:23:56 < ventyl> recruiters are desperate, so they will send pretty much any jobspec to anyone who matches right keywords
2021-08-05T00:24:11 < kakium69> the key is not to apply
2021-08-05T00:24:19 < kakium69> but be recruited
2021-08-05T00:24:21 < kakium69> !
2021-08-05T00:25:01 < kakium69> recruiters have set of criteria though ventyl
2021-08-05T00:25:11 < kakium69> some keyword match doesn't fly
2021-08-05T00:25:27 < ventyl> I assume I could find a job in less than 60 seconds if I wanted
2021-08-05T00:25:31 < kakium69> in this case I mean masters at uni
2021-08-05T00:25:56 < Steffanx> I HATE recruiters
2021-08-05T00:26:02 < kakium69> you have masters degree ventyl?
2021-08-05T00:26:15 < ventyl> I do
2021-08-05T00:26:57 < kakium69> that explains - you match criteria
2021-08-05T00:27:50 < Steffanx> Did you REALLY tried to get a job in the IT/EE world lately kakium69 ?
2021-08-05T00:28:05 < kakium69> last year
2021-08-05T00:28:22 < ventyl> kakium69: experience of my ex-coworker, who doesn't have any university degree would disagree
2021-08-05T00:28:37 < Steffanx> But, how many tries kakium69 ?
2021-08-05T00:28:49 < ventyl> after certain amount of years of work experience university degree becomes irrelevant
2021-08-05T00:29:05 < Steffanx> I can imagine where you live there isn't that much EE-ing going on
2021-08-05T00:29:27 < kakium69> ventyl: yes.. maybe 3years and you are set for carreer
2021-08-05T00:29:38 < ventyl> I'd say 10-ish
2021-08-05T00:29:43 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-05T00:30:03 < kakium69> you are not set for carreer then. You have a carreer
2021-08-05T00:30:09 < ventyl> it is quite some time someone dared to ask me for my education
2021-08-05T00:32:00 < ventyl> kakium69: well, I do one thing, people ask me a lot about
2021-08-05T00:32:24 < kakium69> motorcycling?
2021-08-05T00:32:25 < ventyl> I often change sub-industries rather extremely. so essentially every time I change job I get junior position
2021-08-05T00:32:51 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-05T00:37:10 < qyx> cat breeder yesterday, linux kernel hacker today, plumber tomorrow
2021-08-05T00:37:22 < kakium69> cat breeding
2021-08-05T00:37:33 < kakium69> it's my calling
2021-08-05T00:38:02 < Steffanx> You only get it wet
2021-08-05T00:38:08 < Steffanx> Poor kitty
2021-08-05T00:38:13 < ventyl> here companies sometimes want you to fill in knowledge assesment
2021-08-05T00:38:23 < ventyl> in last company where I got one I fixed a bug in it
2021-08-05T00:39:34 < kakium69> it was the test ventyl
2021-08-05T00:39:39 < qyx> we did cognitive capabilities and psychology assessment in the last company
2021-08-05T00:39:39 < kakium69> find the bug
2021-08-05T00:39:40 < Steffanx> kakium69, you can always come to dutchland and take my job
2021-08-05T00:39:49 < qyx> there were only two of us who passed
2021-08-05T00:39:50 < Steffanx> Im willing to give it to you
2021-08-05T00:39:59 < kakium69> Steffanx: why and why?
2021-08-05T00:40:03 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-08-05T00:40:08 < qyx> I would say, both of us were quite.. problematic
2021-08-05T00:40:13 < kakium69> you move to funland in a cabin?
2021-08-05T00:40:17 < Steffanx> Then I can move on, kakium69
2021-08-05T00:40:18 < ventyl> kakium69: nope, but it became a test since I fixed it. later I learned, that they put it in there, because they were relying on that behavior. despite the fact that linter was bitching about it
2021-08-05T00:40:21 < Steffanx> Yeah, kakium69 
2021-08-05T00:41:14 < Steffanx> Did qyx write the code, ventyl ?
2021-08-05T00:41:26 < kakium69> move on as in?
2021-08-05T00:41:43 < ventyl> Steffanx: qyx wasn't working there. he would probably set the place in fire
2021-08-05T00:41:53 < kakium69> carreer, change whole profession, home place?
2021-08-05T00:41:57 < kakium69> country?
2021-08-05T00:42:02 < kakium69> retire?
2021-08-05T00:42:19 < Steffanx> kakium69: find a new job (not like I cannot do that now) 
2021-08-05T00:43:36 < Steffanx> Retirement would be nice too, if I could do that fincially ;(
2021-08-05T00:43:36 < kakium69> you have a weakness of being conciderate of others
2021-08-05T00:44:27 < Steffanx> Oh no, I dont care about that. 
2021-08-05T00:44:45 < kakium69> why you stay?
2021-08-05T00:45:01 < kakium69> slash don't apply for another jubb
2021-08-05T00:45:18 < kakium69> before there is replacement-kaki in your place?
2021-08-05T00:45:22 < Steffanx> Because its not terrible, but a change would be nice one day
2021-08-05T00:45:34 < ventyl> heh, last time I left like 6 days before release
2021-08-05T00:45:50 < kakium69> last time I left
2021-08-05T00:45:54 < ventyl> we didn't even have buildable binary three days before I left
2021-08-05T00:46:41 < qyx> deadlines are volatile
2021-08-05T00:46:54 < ventyl> this one was moving, to the left
2021-08-05T00:46:54 < Steffanx> The nice thing about my current job is the variation of clients and products.
2021-08-05T00:46:54 < kakium69> I finished my shit and came back when they changed hw and it didn't work anymore
2021-08-05T00:47:30 < qyx> Steffanx: do you sell kärchers?
2021-08-05T00:47:34 < qyx> or was it karlp 
2021-08-05T00:47:39 < Steffanx> Nope
2021-08-05T00:47:42 < kakium69> steff is EE
2021-08-05T00:47:43 < ventyl> I also managed to compare my boss's boss reasoning to Gestapo
2021-08-05T00:47:43 < Steffanx> We sell nothing. 
2021-08-05T00:47:58 < kakium69> you sell engineering
2021-08-05T00:48:01 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-08-05T00:48:45 < Steffanx> Which goes from medical stuff, to agriculture sensor stuff, to whatever someone comes up with 
2021-08-05T00:49:05 < kakium69> sometimes turnkey service?
2021-08-05T00:49:24 < kakium69> turn-key
2021-08-05T00:49:56 < kakium69> as in you figure out production and all
2021-08-05T00:50:16 < kakium69> local company does such
2021-08-05T00:50:29 < kakium69> sometimes client wants the design and engineering
2021-08-05T00:50:55 < kakium69> sometimes they just want the product
2021-08-05T00:51:49 < Steffanx> Yeah exactly 
2021-08-05T00:52:39 < ventyl> sometimes they are just bat shit crazy
2021-08-05T00:52:45 < ventyl> and everyone is incompetent
2021-08-05T00:52:51 < Steffanx> Or bat shit lazy 
2021-08-05T00:53:45 < ventyl> our client, while I was in automotive, was fucking crazy cheater
2021-08-05T00:54:00 < Steffanx> But the most annoying things are when they have something, that does something, but I want a remake that does the same something but with some more features 
2021-08-05T00:54:00 < ventyl> they cheated rules they made for themselves
2021-08-05T00:54:12 < Steffanx> Oh and yeah, we dont have the old design or source files
2021-08-05T00:56:03 < qyx> been there done that
2021-08-05T00:56:11 < qyx> never more
2021-08-05T00:56:43 < Steffanx> I have serious trouble with things like that ventyl. Like cheating EMC tests by lowering some RF output power, but after its done increasing it again. "Client says yes, so we do it".
2021-08-05T00:57:11 < ventyl> Steffanx: well, this was at different stage.
2021-08-05T00:57:14 < Steffanx> Luckily it was "before my time" I would have refuses
2021-08-05T00:57:17 < Steffanx> Refused.
2021-08-05T00:57:45 < ventyl> design and development of new car model is roughly 5 year iterative process
2021-08-05T00:58:01 < ventyl> in this particular case it was a bit longer, like 7 years
2021-08-05T00:58:35 < ventyl> they had internal rule, that whole design has to be frozen some 2 or three years before planned start of production
2021-08-05T00:59:39 < ventyl> if they sticked to this rule, car would be garbage, because design was full of fuck at that time
2021-08-05T01:00:19 < ventyl> so with many components they told their suppliers: listen, next model year contains your component too and there are no major changes so MY X+1 component will be backwards compatible with MY X
2021-08-05T01:00:40 < ventyl> we will continue changing design for MY X+1 and you will supply these parts for MY X already
2021-08-05T01:01:43 < ventyl> one MY didn't give them enough room to fix the garbage and in the end they were changing design until, and in some cases even beyond start of production date
2021-08-05T01:03:39 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-209-81.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2021-08-05T01:04:35 < Steffanx> Oh, but.. thats not really your issue right.
2021-08-05T01:04:36 < Steffanx> ?
2021-08-05T01:04:36 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-05T01:05:09 < ventyl> well, while no-one refused to cooperate in this, it was
2021-08-05T01:05:48 < ventyl> I was formally working on MY 2023 part which ended up in MY 2020 cars and it's requirements were changing all the time
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2021-08-05T01:06:40 < ventyl> so amount of work was increasing, but deadline didn't move
2021-08-05T01:06:45 < Steffanx> Oh, yeah. Requirement payment are the best. Especially when the "management" doesnt have the guts to make them pay for those changes
2021-08-05T01:06:52 < Steffanx> And that.
2021-08-05T01:07:02 < ventyl> well, at least we did that
2021-08-05T01:07:38 < ventyl> but the gossip was, that other suppliers took single flatrate payment for all the work including whatever amount of change requests and model years
2021-08-05T01:09:01 < ventyl> but this added work didn't yield any additional payment, because the work was already scheduled. just the rules of the game changed
2021-08-05T01:09:44 < ventyl> we were doing work we agreed to do at timeframe we expected in pace we expected. just the delivery date of it was shifted towards left
2021-08-05T01:10:23 < ventyl> it was grey zone and ended up in complete mess
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2021-08-05T01:11:07 < kakium69> was the car any good?
2021-08-05T01:11:30 < ventyl> NTHSA almost revoked it's certification
2021-08-05T01:11:35 < Steffanx> Hah. Sounds like fun.. and then ventyl left the company 
2021-08-05T01:12:10 < ventyl> due to series of bugs here and there we managed to stop production plant for significant amount of time
2021-08-05T01:12:25 < ventyl> nobody wanted to touch the problem, because it wasn't clear, what the problem really is
2021-08-05T01:13:48 < ventyl> it took me one and half month to unfold several entagled bugs, which was the point I told myself, that once this is done, I will leave
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2021-08-05T01:14:42 < ventyl> I managed to stay one month longer, which after adding 60 days of leaving notice shifted my last day 5 days before release of next model year SW
2021-08-05T01:15:25 < ventyl> which was originally planed to be in development for 8 months, but due to negligence at both sides and this one issue with halted plant shrinked time available for development down to three months
2021-08-05T01:15:58 < ventyl> fortunately, it was only some initial testbench release
2021-08-05T01:18:43 < ventyl> kakium69: well, you'd probably want to own it. but in fact it is complete trash even in form in which it entered production.
2021-08-05T01:19:28 < ventyl> significant amount of units didn't even pass EOL tests
2021-08-05T01:22:02 < kakium69> american, european or asian car brand?
2021-08-05T01:22:12 < ventyl> american
2021-08-05T01:27:07 < ventyl> but in the end it doesn
2021-08-05T01:27:10 < ventyl> 't matter
2021-08-05T01:27:32 < ventyl> there is nothing like american car, kind of neither asian car
2021-08-05T01:27:50 < ventyl> software and large part of electronics is european
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2021-08-05T01:55:10 < GenTooMan> no surprise US corporations have become a fairly twisted bunch
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2021-08-05T14:27:20 < karlp> I wonder how / if they intend to do billing for this: https://www.eenewsautomotive.com/news/siemens-conti-join-forces-overhead-power-trucks/page/0/1?fnid=139572
2021-08-05T14:38:22 < Steffanx> A train with out tracks. The innovation.
2021-08-05T14:41:33 < karlp> I think it's kinda reasonable though, electrify a few big heavy use sections, they can charge there while they're on the mainline, then they just drive off the branch routes on their freshly charged batteries?
2021-08-05T14:42:09 < karlp> fucking, finally getting around to this 40minute video on EMC from altium, and we're 10 minutes in and we're still talking about credentials and covid.
2021-08-05T14:44:03 < tct> similar things happening here
2021-08-05T14:57:34 < karlp> "if you're in the aerospace industry, just add a couple of layers" :)
2021-08-05T14:57:52 < karlp> (on layer stackups for EMC that might make it harder to route as you have less signal layers)
2021-08-05T15:01:39 < ventyl> aerospace must be fucking pain in the ass compared to automotive
2021-08-05T15:02:06 < fenugrec> yea, but if it flies you can charge 10x for it
2021-08-05T15:04:24 < ventyl> enogh spare money for drugs for engineers
2021-08-05T15:04:53 < tct> alert mawk
2021-08-05T15:05:05 < ventyl> :>
2021-08-05T15:05:07 < mawk> yes?
2021-08-05T15:05:12 < Steffanx> Drugs.
2021-08-05T15:05:17 < mawk> :(
2021-08-05T15:05:22 < mawk> I don't do them
2021-08-05T15:05:28 < mawk> who do you think I am
2021-08-05T15:05:31 < Steffanx> Me neither.
2021-08-05T15:06:48 < tct> Damit guys... I still don´t have the LTDC running on this STM32H750. Well, the LTDC is running, I can see in the debugger how the current vertical & horizontal positions in LxWHPCR and LxWVPCR are constantly changing so LTDC itself is enabled, but nothing shows up on the screen. all white. SDRAM was not cleared so I expect garbage (debugger confirms that the FB address is loaded with garbage)
2021-08-05T15:06:56 < tct> I must be missing something really basic here...
2021-08-05T15:07:05 < ventyl> my ex-coleague was responsible for power and propulsion design of Airbus A220
2021-08-05T15:07:27 < mawk> what is LTDC tct 
2021-08-05T15:07:49 < tct> mawk, integrated TFT (display) controller found in some STM32 devices
2021-08-05T15:08:01 < Spirit532> tct, what is the ltdc source set to?
2021-08-05T15:08:17 < Spirit532> make sure the controller can read the memory from the address you're pointing it to
2021-08-05T15:08:41 < tct> Spirit532, the framebuffer address of layer 1 is set to 0xd0000000 - that is where FMC maps the SDRAM
2021-08-05T15:08:51 < Spirit532> and SDRAM is accessible?
2021-08-05T15:08:54 < tct> Spirit532, I am able to read & write the SDRAM correctly from the CPU.
2021-08-05T15:08:59 < Spirit532> okay
2021-08-05T15:09:01 < karlp> nice discussion of the trace widths... https://www.signalintegrityjournal.com/articles/2104-should-you-worry-about-90-degree-bends-in-circuit-board-traces
2021-08-05T15:09:23 < Spirit532> did you start ltdc, manually give it the address?
2021-08-05T15:09:41 < Spirit532> poke the oscope at the lines, see what's alive and what's not
2021-08-05T15:10:15 < tct> Spirit532, yes. Using HAL_LTDC_SetAddress(). Using the debugger I see that the FB address was loaded correctly. the enable bit is also on and as mentioned I see in the debugger how the LTDC is moving the current horizontal and vertical positions.
2021-08-05T15:10:17 < fenugrec> karlp, their first graph is suspicious... [Hz] ?? surely they mean at least M if not GHz
2021-08-05T15:10:29 < Spirit532> fill sdram with random
2021-08-05T15:10:35 < Spirit532> then see if there's stuff on the data bits
2021-08-05T15:11:15 < tct> Spirit532, this is an STM32H750-DK (discovery kit). Unfortunately, I couldn´t find ANY sources regarding display panel timings etc. I took the same as the one from the STM32F746 as I believe itś the same display panel. but even if timings would be off, I´d still see something other than just a blank (white) screen
2021-08-05T15:11:30 < tct> Spirit532, the SDRAM is already filled with random. I see it in the memory view through the debugger
2021-08-05T15:11:41 < tct> Spirit532, then I ad some magic values here and there and they show up in the debugger as well.
2021-08-05T15:11:48 < karlp> fenugrec: figure 4 is described as being in GHz in the text, but yes, the image has Hz
2021-08-05T15:12:45 < Spirit532> does the DK come with an LTDC demo?
2021-08-05T15:12:46 < fenugrec> yea that makes more sense. i.e. below 1GHz is == DC as far as 90deg bends are concerned
2021-08-05T15:12:48 < Spirit532> it should
2021-08-05T15:13:27 < tct> Spirit532, apparently only with pre-compiled ones (which run)
2021-08-05T15:13:41 < Spirit532> there should definitely be source code
2021-08-05T15:14:08 < tct> Spirit532, I couldn´t locate anything specific to the STM32H750-DK :<
2021-08-05T15:14:15 < tct> Spirit532, I am thankful for any help/inputs/ideas.
2021-08-05T15:14:39 < Spirit532> I can't remember much else that I did to make LTDC run
2021-08-05T15:14:43 < Spirit532> except play with clocks
2021-08-05T15:14:45 < Spirit532> lowering it should work
2021-08-05T15:14:54 < tct> Spirit532, I went down all the way to 4 MHz :(
2021-08-05T15:14:57 < Spirit532> :(
2021-08-05T15:15:19 < tct> Spirit532, I can´t remember having had these problems with LTDC before either. usually something shows up rather quickly but often garbage due to wrong timings and shit - but this is just solid white (backlight is on)
2021-08-05T15:16:04 < Spirit532> maybe the display has some enable crap
2021-08-05T15:16:57 < tct> Spirit532, it´s literally just an RGB interface :/
2021-08-05T15:17:41 < englishman> karlp: vancouver had fully electric busses with overhead wires for decades. they are principally powered by the wires for the majority of the time, but can go offroad for a few hundred m to transfer between routes or if there is a problem or something. worked well but the idiots ripped all the shit out because people thought it was ugly and replaced all the busses with diesels
2021-08-05T15:18:00 < englishman> offroad.... offline
2021-08-05T15:18:17 < tct> englishman, lol - progressing to diesel because of esthetics, nice.
2021-08-05T15:18:22 < englishman> awful.
2021-08-05T15:18:29 < tct> englishman, I´m sure you got more tourists as it looks nicer now.
2021-08-05T15:18:43 < englishman> vancouver has lots of tourists i suppose
2021-08-05T15:18:56 < englishman> but the overhead lines made it quaint, like san francisco
2021-08-05T15:19:18 < tct> Spirit532, have you used the ST HAL with LTDC?
2021-08-05T15:19:43 < englishman> has anyone purchased from TTI? they sound familiar
2021-08-05T15:19:58 < Spirit532> I use HAL with LTDC exclusively
2021-08-05T15:20:01 < Spirit532> haven't done anything else
2021-08-05T15:20:23 < fenugrec> nice, got some mouser parts, with wrong part in the bag
2021-08-05T15:20:46 < tct> Spirit532, spotting anything fishy here? https://pastebin.com/mWiFTGra
2021-08-05T15:21:00 < tct> Spirit532, it´s all straight out of CubeMX + added SDRAM command initialization
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2021-08-05T15:21:27 < Spirit532> yeah not sure
2021-08-05T15:21:29 < Spirit532> it should work
2021-08-05T15:22:13 < tct> I´m especially astonished as I see LTDC doing its thing via the debugger (looping through all the pixels)
2021-08-05T15:22:38 < Steffanx> No demo codes from st that works and do a little comparison?
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2021-08-05T15:23:10 < tct> Steffanx, I honestly couldn´t spot any for the STM32H750-DK - would not mind if you can find any :p
2021-08-05T15:23:18 < tct> they have precompiled demos on the website
2021-08-05T15:23:42 < tct> and refer to CubeMX for everything else - where they have a template for the board but no running examples with source.
2021-08-05T15:23:56 < tct> at least not specific to that board.
2021-08-05T15:28:09 < tct> Spirit532, I just notice that the TERRIF bit is set to one in LTDC_ISR which is a transfer error interrupt flag
2021-08-05T15:29:05 < tct> Transfer error interrupt: generated when an AXI bus error occurs during data transfer
2021-08-05T15:30:12 < zyp> TERRIF_IED
2021-08-05T15:30:21 < tct> :D
2021-08-05T15:31:01 < tct> how to figure out what triggers the AXI bus error?
2021-08-05T15:32:01 < tct> Spirit532, LTDC doesn´t need DMA to be setup for basic functionality, right?
2021-08-05T15:32:22 < Spirit532> nope, it should just run once you start it
2021-08-05T15:32:31 < tct> Spirit532, any idea on the bus error?
2021-08-05T15:32:37 < Spirit532> might be inaccessible memory
2021-08-05T15:32:41 < Spirit532> check the AXI bus matrix
2021-08-05T15:32:45 < Spirit532> er, AHB
2021-08-05T15:32:55 < Spirit532> the LTDC controller can explicitly _not_ see some parts
2021-08-05T15:33:40 < tct> Spirit532, Why AHB? The reference manual specifically mentions AXI in the section about TERRIF
2021-08-05T15:33:55 < Spirit532> AXI/AHB is interlinked
2021-08-05T15:34:13 < tct> ok
2021-08-05T15:34:32 < tct> can somebody outline the process of tracking this down? there´s literally nothing enabeld other than RCC, NVIC, GPIO, LTDC and FMC
2021-08-05T15:34:54 < Spirit532> are you enabling fmc before ltdc?
2021-08-05T15:35:03 < tct> yes.
2021-08-05T15:35:12 < tct> I can read & write to/from the SDRAM before any LTDC stuff happens
2021-08-05T15:35:19 < tct> the code structure is as generated by MrCube
2021-08-05T15:35:35 < Spirit532> it's got bugs
2021-08-05T15:36:19 < tct> It does HAL_Init(), the MX_FMC_INIT(), then I send the config commands to the SDRAM, then MX_LTDC_Init()
2021-08-05T15:39:02 < tct> FUIF (FIFO underrun interrupt flag) is also set
2021-08-05T15:39:05 < tct> interesting
2021-08-05T15:49:41 < tct> Spirit532, interesting... as mentioned before I fill my SDRAM (at address 0xD0000000 - which is where Layer1 of the LTDC reads fron) with 0xaa55aa55 and I am able to read back the data (and also see it in the mem-view of the debugger). However, once I am in the while(1) loop the debugger reports the area as being filled with zero.
2021-08-05T15:50:04 < Spirit532> try putting the buffer into micro's ram
2021-08-05T15:50:20 < tct> the reset to zero actually happens when I call HAL_LTDC_SetAddress() o.O
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2021-08-05T15:51:37 < tct> any subsequent writes to the SDRAM afterwards don´t modify the SDRAM contents according to the debugger
2021-08-05T15:51:50 < tct> Spirit532, I tried that earlier on - will try again as I fixed a few other things in the meantime
2021-08-05T15:55:32 < tct> Spirit532, FB in main RAM didn´t change anything. still getting the interrupts and white screen.
2021-08-05T15:55:49 < Spirit532> that's not supposed to happen
2021-08-05T15:55:55 < tct> I agree
2021-08-05T16:01:37 < mawk> did you forget to plug in your board?
2021-08-05T16:01:46 < tct> staph it, mawk :D
2021-08-05T16:01:52 < mawk> :(
2021-08-05T16:05:15 < tct> Spirit532, correction: When having the FB in the MCU´s main RAM I don´t get the FIFO underflow interrupt flag - only the transfer error interrupt flag (TERRIF)
2021-08-05T16:05:40 < Spirit532> never had that issue
2021-08-05T16:09:27 < mawk> TERRIble
2021-08-05T16:09:52 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/a6DVy/Screenshot_2021-08-05_15-09-37.png
2021-08-05T16:09:54 < qyx> my watchlist
2021-08-05T16:09:57 < tct> I said staph it, mawk! :D
2021-08-05T16:10:01 < qyx> only a single notifation was sent
2021-08-05T16:10:06 < qyx> *notification
2021-08-05T16:22:34 < tct> the erratas are getting longer
2021-08-05T16:31:56 < Steffanx> Whats this watchlist qyx
2021-08-05T16:32:06 < Steffanx> October?
2021-08-05T16:32:10 < Steffanx> Octopart. 
2021-08-05T16:32:46 < qyx> yeah
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2021-08-05T17:06:23 < mawk> what are you doing with H7 qyx 
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2021-08-05T17:16:06 < qyx> kawaii acceleration sensors
2021-08-05T17:16:38 < qyx> because I have been thinking it was a good idea
2021-08-05T17:16:45 < qyx> not that much, in a retrospective
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2021-08-05T17:26:08 < karlp> huh, jlc specifies 0.2mm pad to track spacing, but much less than that for track to track.
2021-08-05T17:26:20 < karlp> aisler is 0.1mm for track to track _and_ pad to track.
2021-08-05T17:26:51 < karlp> (jlc is 0.09 for outer layers 1oz, and 0.127 for inner half oz)
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2021-08-05T17:51:35 < qyx> karlp: I used 0.1 pad to track with jlc and it was ok (bga)
2021-08-05T17:54:33 < jpa-> the 0.2mm spec seems to be for pads with holes
2021-08-05T17:55:18 < jpa-> but it seems superfluous, the 0.33 mm from hole to track-in-different-net seems more relevant
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2021-08-05T18:12:14 < Steffanx> This isnt good enough for what you want to try mr tct? https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeH7/tree/master/Projects/STM32H750B-DK/Examples/LTDC 
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2021-08-05T18:34:48 < karlp> this are pads with holes unfortuntaely.
2021-08-05T18:35:14 < karlp> 0.33m from hole to track is ~same when you account for annular ring.
2021-08-05T18:35:36 < karlp> still, it makes like a 20% difference in how I can pack this shit, so won't be made at jlc I guess :)
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2021-08-05T19:14:51 < jpa-> karlp: sounds difficult to solder THT pads that are that close together
2021-08-05T19:16:45 < karlp> no intention of soldering them :)
2021-08-05T19:16:56 < karlp> this is magic pcb transformer shitz
2021-08-05T19:17:27 < jpa-> so more like vias?
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2021-08-05T19:17:57 < karlp> correct.
2021-08-05T19:18:17 < karlp> but via/tht pad is still "drill plus annular ring" so a "hole" ?
2021-08-05T19:18:37 < jpa-> dunno, for some reason they have different specs for vias than other holes
2021-08-05T19:18:53 < karlp> hrm, jlc has "via to track" of 0.254, but from the inside, not with the annular ring.
2021-08-05T19:18:56 < karlp> weird.
2021-08-05T19:18:58 < jpa-> i assume that HASL would bridge exposed copper easily, but that wouldn't be problem with tented vias
2021-08-05T19:19:26 < jpa-> though shouldn't be a problem to tracks either, unless they mess up the soldermask alignment
2021-08-05T19:20:40 < karlp> hrm, looks like via to track becomes 0.13 then, which isn't sooo bad.
2021-08-05T19:20:45 < karlp> fucking trickzy shits though
2021-08-05T19:21:08 < jpa-> let's see if i have actually followed that..
2021-08-05T19:22:18 < jpa-> i have used 0.10 mm via to track, haven't had problems
2021-08-05T19:22:42 < karlp> drill size tolerance: +.13/-0.06, on a 0.2mm drill is.... quite a bit :)
2021-08-05T19:23:43 < karlp> hrm, jlc says min via is 0.2, with min via diameter 0f 0.4, but min annular ring is 0.13, which would be 0.46...
2021-08-05T19:23:49 < karlp> I love consistent numbers
2021-08-05T19:24:11 < jpa-> looks like my smallest vias have been 0.5 diameter with 0.2 mm hole
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 06 2021
2021-08-06T00:51:45 < bitmask> damnn v3 mini is tiny
2021-08-06T00:52:41 < bitmask> (st link)
2021-08-06T00:54:17 < zyp> it's cute, but orbtrace-mini is cuter :)
2021-08-06T00:58:14 < Steffanx> I agree
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2021-08-06T01:41:30 < bitmask> link?
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2021-08-06T02:16:14 < machinehum> Where would I find a decent example cutout for a USB-A
2021-08-06T02:16:18 < machinehum> https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/io_connectors/0676430910
2021-08-06T02:16:50 < machinehum> What size should I make the plastic hole
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2021-08-06T03:17:22 < octorian> The package of STM32 microcontrollers I ordered from Mouser on Tuesday just arrived!
2021-08-06T03:17:42 < octorian> (Yes, I know that's kinda a major accomplishment these days)
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2021-08-06T04:11:02 < aandrew> heh
2021-08-06T04:11:02 < aandrew> yes it is
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2021-08-06T04:25:59 < octorian> Its probably going to be a few weeks before I'm able to actually use these chips, but I'm very glad I now have that option.
2021-08-06T04:26:38 < octorian> I want to bump from the L052 to the L072 for the next rev of my project, to get more headroom and a USB DFU bootloader.  Kinda wish it was a drop-in replacement, but they seem to have moved a few pins around.
2021-08-06T04:27:49 < octorian> Gonna need to do a lot more reading, and maybe some experimentation with a Nucleo board, to make sure I actually get the bootloader selection bit implemented correctly.
2021-08-06T04:28:32 < octorian> Guessing my options are to either have a special button to trigger it, or a "secondary user bootloader" that sits in flash and polls some GPIOs on started to decide whether to trigger it.
2021-08-06T04:29:34 < octorian> A potential benefit of that approach could be pushing some sort of indicator to the display before going into DFU mode, but only if I can crunch the code for that down really small.
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2021-08-06T12:38:30 < tct> still no luck with the LTDC on an STM32H7 :(
2021-08-06T12:39:11 < zyp> aww
2021-08-06T12:39:15 < zyp> what's wrong?
2021-08-06T12:41:58 < tct> Still getting TERRIF (transfer error). The RM mentions that this indicates an AXI bus error occurring during data transfer
2021-08-06T12:42:01 < tct> how would I go about debugging this?
2021-08-06T12:44:01 < zyp> ah
2021-08-06T12:44:34 < zyp> which memory are you transferring from?
2021-08-06T12:45:02 < tct> at the beginning from SDRAM via FMC. By now I just have a 4*50*40 bytes buffer in the primary SRAM
2021-08-06T12:45:16 < zyp> bus error suggests the memory is either inaccessible or you've got the address wrong
2021-08-06T12:45:43 < zyp> testing both SDRAM and SRAM should rule out the first, so I'd check how you configure the address/area
2021-08-06T12:45:48 < tct> uint32_t fb[4*50*50];  HAL_LTDC_SetAddress(&hltdc, (uint32_t)fb, LTDC_LAYER_1);   (returns HAL_OK)
2021-08-06T12:46:15 < zyp> which H7 is this?
2021-08-06T12:46:22 < tct> STM32H750B
2021-08-06T12:46:32 < tct> STM32H750-DK specifically (the discovery kit)
2021-08-06T12:48:57 < c10ud_> did you setup the layer correctly?
2021-08-06T12:49:35 < tct> c10ud_, I think so, yeah. I checked that many times. 
2021-08-06T12:50:18 < tct> https://pastebin.com/0Y95KexK
2021-08-06T12:50:22 < tct> main() in line 79
2021-08-06T12:50:32 < tct> layer setup in line 213
2021-08-06T12:51:17 < tct> line 123 & 125 were added to limit the window to ensure that it doesn´t read outside the smaller FB located in SRAM
2021-08-06T12:51:19 < c10ud_>   pLayerCfg.FBStartAdress = 0;
2021-08-06T12:51:58 < tct> c10ud_, yeah, check line 121. there I set the FB address using HAL_LTDC_SetAddress()
2021-08-06T12:52:37 < c10ud_> but you told stm32 you had a 480x272 layer
2021-08-06T12:52:46 < c10ud_> and you're feeding it a very small buffer
2021-08-06T12:52:57 < tct> See line 123 and 125, I limit the window size there
2021-08-06T12:53:16 < tct> I tried directly setting a smaller window in the layer config - same result. 
2021-08-06T12:54:48 < zyp> but when is LTDC DMA turned on?
2021-08-06T12:55:08 < tct> zyp, that shouldn´t be necessary for basic operation, no? 
2021-08-06T12:55:18 < zyp> what do you mean?
2021-08-06T12:55:36 < tct> ah, well DMA2D is at least not necessary
2021-08-06T12:56:10 < c10ud_> __HAL_LTDC_ENABLE, I think
2021-08-06T12:56:14 < zyp> not talking about DMA2D, I'm talking about when LTDC starts grabbing data from FBStartAdress
2021-08-06T12:56:43 < tct> zyp, fair point. time to investigate that. I take it that CubeMX / HAL_LTDC does not set that up
2021-08-06T12:56:45 < tct> ?
2021-08-06T12:56:45 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
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2021-08-06T12:57:11 < tct> zyp, I though that LTDC does not need regular DMA
2021-08-06T12:57:29 < zyp> I'm not talking about regular DMA
2021-08-06T12:57:43 < tct> are you talking about DMA2D?
2021-08-06T12:57:51 < zyp> no
2021-08-06T12:57:59 < tct> can you be more specific then? :p
2021-08-06T12:58:00 < zyp> do you know what DMA means?
2021-08-06T12:58:07 < tct> Direct Memory Access  ?
2021-08-06T12:58:13 < zyp> yes, do you know what that means?
2021-08-06T12:58:27 < tct> the basics, yeah, I´d say so.
2021-08-06T12:58:57 < tct> zyp, so?
2021-08-06T12:59:11 < zyp> any peripheral with a memory master port is DMA-capable
2021-08-06T12:59:21 < tct> section 32.6 ´LTDC programming procedure´ in the RM does not talk about any additional DMA setup. Basically just setting the FB addr and enabling the LTDC.
2021-08-06T12:59:26 < tct> zyp, so what exactly do you think I am missing?
2021-08-06T12:59:51 < zyp> I didn't say you're missing anything
2021-08-06T13:00:00 < zyp> presumably enabling LTDC enables the internal DMA engine
2021-08-06T13:00:14 < zyp> what I'm saying is that I don't see where it's happening
2021-08-06T13:01:01 < zyp> one possibility then is of course that it's not happening at all
2021-08-06T13:01:11 < zyp> but you're getting a transfer error, right?
2021-08-06T13:01:44 < zyp> so what I suspect is that it's happening before you set the address, so it's attempting to read from an invalid addr
2021-08-06T13:02:09 < zyp> which might result in it getting stuck in an error or whatever
2021-08-06T13:02:32 < zyp> try pointing line 254 at a valid buffer
2021-08-06T13:03:21 < tct> I get your thinking - good point.
2021-08-06T13:03:37 < tct> so let´s put the fb[] array outside of main() and have    pLayerCfg.FBStartAdress = (uint32_t)fb;   ?
2021-08-06T13:03:39 < zyp> also, have you tried clearing the transfer error? does it get set again immediately?
2021-08-06T13:03:49 < zyp> you can do that
2021-08-06T13:06:44 < tct> I tried that already - just did it again. Also set the smaller window parameters directly in the config struct again.
2021-08-06T13:07:01 < tct> now I get a TERRIF, then it goes away but TERRIE (the enable bit for TERRIF) is cleared by something o.O
2021-08-06T13:07:44 < zyp> are you even setting TERRIE?
2021-08-06T13:07:50 < tct> yes.
2021-08-06T13:07:51 < jpa-> tct: can you dump LTDC registers from debugger, to see what actual values the hal crap is setting?
2021-08-06T13:08:12 < tct> zyp, I see how TERRIE is set to 1, then once we reach the while(1) loop in main it becomes 0
2021-08-06T13:08:24 < tct> jpa-, yeah I am doing that all the time. I see all the register values.
2021-08-06T13:08:31 < jpa-> can we see them too?
2021-08-06T13:09:17 < tct> certainly: https://pastebin.com/jHfvSD2h
2021-08-06T13:10:48 < jpa-> L1CFBAR = 0x20000458   isn't that in DTCM which is not connected to LTDC?
2021-08-06T13:11:00 < c10ud_>  i would just try to set up a single layer, no window, 480x272x3 bytes and then initializing the ltdc with __HAL_LTDC_ENABLE
2021-08-06T13:11:25 < c10ud_> and yes also what jpa- said
2021-08-06T13:12:25 < zyp> yup
2021-08-06T13:13:26 < zyp> LTDC can only access the AXI SRAM region, not the others
2021-08-06T13:13:41 < tct> that makes sense...
2021-08-06T13:13:53 < tct> mmh, what is the correct way of getting that internal FB into a valid region?
2021-08-06T13:14:10 < zyp> just point it at 0x24000000
2021-08-06T13:14:22 < zyp> as long as you're not using that for anything else
2021-08-06T13:14:53 < tct> well, LTDC will do read-only from there anyway, right?
2021-08-06T13:14:57 < c10ud_> depends on your compiler, just set the absolute address on the array or cage it into a region
2021-08-06T13:15:12 < zyp> sure
2021-08-06T13:15:28 < tct> arm-none-eabi-gcc here
2021-08-06T13:15:52 < tct> okay, setting the FB addr to 0x24000000 makes the TERRIF go away. still a white screen tho.
2021-08-06T13:16:10 < zyp> you might want to put something into the memory too
2021-08-06T13:16:16 < tct> the memory view shows ´garbage´ at 0x24000000
2021-08-06T13:16:24 < tct> ie. non-zero values.
2021-08-06T13:16:24 < jpa-> also you can probe your pins to see if it is generating sync pulses
2021-08-06T13:16:27 < ventyl> nah, cura is broken. I might not like rolling distributions anymore
2021-08-06T13:16:39 < jpa-> remember that often you need to initialize the display controller through I2C also
2021-08-06T13:16:57 < tct> jpa-, LTDC is the display controller.
2021-08-06T13:17:06 < tct> jpa-, this is an STM32H750-DK (discovery kit)
2021-08-06T13:17:14 < tct> as far as I can tell there is no additional controller in the panel.
2021-08-06T13:17:30 < jpa-> hmm, which panel is that?
2021-08-06T13:17:52 < jpa-> pretty much always there is something that converts the RGB bus signals to the display scan signals
2021-08-06T13:18:02 < tct> jpa-, good question. I literally could not find any information on that. at one point I just assumed it´s the same display as on the STM32F746 discovery kit
2021-08-06T13:18:07 < jpa-> but it can either have fixed in-rom config or require config through i2c
2021-08-06T13:19:18 < tct> I had troubles finding any of that info for the STM32H750-DK
2021-08-06T13:19:32 < zyp> https://mikrocontroller.bplaced.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/RK043FN48H-CT672B-V1.0.pdf
2021-08-06T13:19:35 < zyp> this shit, apparently
2021-08-06T13:20:00 < tct> yeah, that is the same one as the STM32F746-dk has
2021-08-06T13:20:20 < c10ud_> well usually there's a working example with evals, maybe not trivial to find though
2021-08-06T13:20:25 < zyp> ah, my bad, that might be where I got it from
2021-08-06T13:20:31 < zyp> yeah
2021-08-06T13:20:43 < c10ud_> anyway are you enabling the ltdc? I'd remove the window thing for clarity so you access a whole fb
2021-08-06T13:21:37 < tct> c10ud_, yeah enabel bit is 1 and I see CPSR changing accordingly (it reports the current pixel position)
2021-08-06T13:22:03 < tct> c10ud_, by removing the window thing you mean just setting it to full size? there is as far as I know no way to just ´not use windows´
2021-08-06T13:22:16 < jpa-> that does have I2C pins though, and the OTA5180A can be configured through I2C; but no info whether that particular panel ships with the controller preprogrammed
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2021-08-06T13:24:05 < tct> not a bad lead tho
2021-08-06T13:24:24 < jpa-> but to start with, probe the sync pins to see if the LTDC is doing things now
2021-08-06T13:25:37 < tct> time to take the DK apart then :p
2021-08-06T13:25:50 < tct> that was not fun last time I did it - pretty well taped together.
2021-08-06T13:26:45 < jpa-> oh, bga fun
2021-08-06T13:27:05 < c10ud_> I don't remember if the LTDCEN wasn't enough, I added the __HAL_LTDC_ENABLE just like the example did, probably for reloading purposes (?)
2021-08-06T13:27:37 < jpa-> but yeah, STM32H750-DK schematics say that the TFT is RK043FN48H-CT672B and it does show that the I2C is hooked up to I2C4
2021-08-06T13:27:50 < Steffanx> Did tct even try/read the ltdc example that comes with the cubeh7?
2021-08-06T13:27:54 < tct> c10ud_, __HAL_LTDC_ENABLE is called - and I see the enable bit being set to 1 as well as the current pos registers changing
2021-08-06T13:28:17 < tct> Steffanx, please show an CubeMX example for the H750-DK that is specific to that hardware.
2021-08-06T13:28:29 < Steffanx> H750b-dk?
2021-08-06T13:28:37 < Steffanx> I linked it yesterday 
2021-08-06T13:29:08 < tct> a cube example? I must have missed that - please re-link
2021-08-06T13:29:29 < Steffanx> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeH7/tree/master/Projects/STM32H750B-DK/Examples
2021-08-06T13:30:38 < jpa-> at least that does nothing with I2C so probably the controller autoconfigs
2021-08-06T13:31:17 < Steffanx> The readme talks about the disco though -_-
2021-08-06T13:31:50 < jpa-> if you cannot probe the sync pins, you can print GPIOI->IDR repeatedly from debugger to see if bits 9, 12 and 14 are toggling
2021-08-06T13:33:22 < tct> jpa-, just did that, all of those are toggling around
2021-08-06T13:33:33 < c10ud_> reading the example:   gpio_init_structure.Pin       = GPIO_PIN_7;     /* LCD_DISP pin has to be manually controlled */
2021-08-06T13:34:40 < jpa-> tct: that's promising, what about the lowest two bits (LCD_G5 and LCD_G6), are they garbagey enough?
2021-08-06T13:35:29 < tct> jpa-, yep, they jump all over the place, sometimes remain the same, sometimes one changes, sometimes the other, sometimes both - just as expected
2021-08-06T13:37:56 < tct> interesting, the CubeMX template for the board sets PD7 to input mode. as c10ud_ mentioned they use it as an output pin
2021-08-06T13:38:32 < tct> Can´t set it to anything other than InputMode in CubeMX tho
2021-08-06T13:39:25 < jpa-> is it high or low when you check IDR?
2021-08-06T13:39:37 < jpa-> high = normal operation, low = standby
2021-08-06T13:40:08 < jpa-> LCD_RST on PB12 may be of interest also
2021-08-06T13:40:34 < c10ud_> i'd just copy over from the example so all relevant pins are set
2021-08-06T13:40:41 < tct> jpa-, LCD_DISP pin´s IDR is 0 all the time. will look into that, also into LCD_RST
2021-08-06T13:40:52 < tct> c10ud_, I expected cubemx to do that - might have been too naiive there.
2021-08-06T13:41:15 < tct> it comes with a template for all relevant pins like the LEDs and user button(s) and also sets up the other LTDC pins
2021-08-06T13:41:28 < tct> I am very thankful for your input, guys.
2021-08-06T13:42:24 < Steffanx> Success?
2021-08-06T13:43:00 < tct> lol yes, just got garbage on the display
2021-08-06T13:43:04 < tct> was indeed LCD_DISP q__q
2021-08-06T13:43:14 < tct> all I wanted to see was garbage
2021-08-06T13:43:16 < jpa-> *and* it was your ram address also
2021-08-06T13:43:23 < tct> true
2021-08-06T13:43:48 < jpa-> now you'll need to find some nice graphics library for it
2021-08-06T13:44:40 < Steffanx> ST recommends TouchGFX
2021-08-06T13:44:59 < Steffanx> Modern C++. Even Are2Commie will recommend
2021-08-06T13:45:27 < tct> hah :p
2021-08-06T13:48:58 < ventyl> modern C++ is cool
2021-08-06T13:50:20 < tct> hell yeah
2021-08-06T13:51:35 < tct> Steffanx, thanks for linking that example btw <3
2021-08-06T13:52:05 < Steffanx> It was a terrible reference to something R2 said. And then jpa- made him leave.
2021-08-06T13:52:39 < tct> r2commie is busy experiencing the glory of FreeBSD
2021-08-06T13:53:15 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'm surprised he actually left for good :D
2021-08-06T13:53:34 < tct> wait, wut?
2021-08-06T13:53:38 < tct> what happened?
2021-08-06T13:54:04 < jpa-> i was being mean again and no-one banned me because the moderation of this channel is crap
2021-08-06T13:54:30 < Steffanx> A bitchy jpa-  is the best jpa-  
2021-08-06T13:55:00 < jpa-> yeah, it only goes worse from there
2021-08-06T14:04:19 < tct> jpa-, did you make new children?
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2021-08-06T14:06:33 < ventyl> jpa-: R2 set meaninness standard way too high
2021-08-06T14:06:54 < tct> who the fuck is ventyl btw? Was he/she already around on freenode?
2021-08-06T14:07:21 < ventyl> i am a creep
2021-08-06T14:07:25 < ventyl> i am a widow
2021-08-06T14:07:34 < tct> when I read ´vently´ I just think of ´dirk gently´
2021-08-06T14:08:47 < jpa-> tct: not sure; wife lost her periods after getting the 5G shot, but apparently that should get back to normal in 8 months or so
2021-08-06T14:09:11 < tct> more tiny jpa´s incoming
2021-08-06T14:09:39 < BrainDamage> a lot of people decided to fork themselves during the pandemic
2021-08-06T14:09:53 < BrainDamage> either due to boredom or driven by survival instinct
2021-08-06T14:10:09 < tct> well, having a baby goes a long way of not staying alive when shit goes down
2021-08-06T14:10:27 < tct> lootin´ with the 4yrs old
2021-08-06T14:11:55 < jpa-> one baby has enough calories to last two weeks
2021-08-06T14:13:08 < tct> the energy that goes into making one and keeping it alive until you need the nutrition seems like a no-go
2021-08-06T14:14:57 < jpa-> why? hoarding at its finest, and it keeps better than raw meat without fridge
2021-08-06T14:15:05 < Spirit532> ST recommends TouchGFX
2021-08-06T14:15:11 < Spirit532> But TouchGFX is OOP garbage
2021-08-06T14:15:22 < Spirit532> I recommend LVGL, which is easy to get working and is fast
2021-08-06T14:15:54 < jpa-> customizing lvgl has felt a bit intense and it also feels a bit bloat at times
2021-08-06T14:16:02 < jpa-> with the overly complex style system etc.
2021-08-06T14:16:08 < Spirit532> yeah the style system is a bit annoying
2021-08-06T14:16:14 < Spirit532> but it's quick to set up
2021-08-06T14:16:16 < jpa-> but at least the license is sane
2021-08-06T14:17:36 < Spirit532> I want imgui but for microcontrollers
2021-08-06T14:18:18 < tct> Spirit532, what´s your opinion on ugfx (disclaimer: author here)
2021-08-06T14:18:31 < tct> not that that should influence your opinion :p
2021-08-06T14:18:35 < Spirit532> money
2021-08-06T14:18:37 < Spirit532> money = no
2021-08-06T14:18:40 < tct> :D
2021-08-06T14:18:56 < Spirit532> otherwise quite ok, I didn't play with it enough to form an opinion
2021-08-06T14:18:58 < Spirit532> (because money)
2021-08-06T14:19:06 < tct> well I have been handing out plenty of licenses for free if it ever comes to that.
2021-08-06T14:19:30 < Spirit532> I happen to be working on a very cool project that needs a very custom UI
2021-08-06T14:19:34 < Spirit532> I'll take a license :P
2021-08-06T14:19:51 < jpa-> Spirit532: why not just use imgui on microcontroller?
2021-08-06T14:20:13 < Spirit532> it's raster based and not very optimized for micros
2021-08-06T14:20:47 < tct> feel free to get in touch
2021-08-06T14:23:48 < BrainDamage> new channel mascotte? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/438360283514404875/873162278554435634/Abrupttapir_6f88eb_8740198.png
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2021-08-06T14:45:39 < c10ud_> problem I had with lvgl is that api kept changing with the v7 <-> v8 transition
2021-08-06T14:46:12 < c10ud_> so, I cannot really track bleeding edge stuff daily..
2021-08-06T14:58:40 < karlp> man, yet more weird pcb fab properties I've never run into before: min drill size scales with board thickness.
2021-08-06T14:58:51 < karlp> I mena, sure, I get it, but man, makes my maths silly
2021-08-06T14:59:32 < karlp> BrainDamage: I love it!
2021-08-06T15:01:05 < karlp> I lvoe convergent evolution too.
2021-08-06T15:18:52 < englishman> i like it bd. right down to the awful jpeg artifacts
2021-08-06T15:19:33 < englishman> yes karl there is a min asspect ratio to drills
2021-08-06T15:19:59 < englishman> that's how you get those blind microdrills so small, they only go thru 0.2mm
2021-08-06T15:20:07 < fenugrec> at least the screenshot has the imgur url readable, https://imgur.com/a/bXolN
2021-08-06T15:21:32 < englishman> chickens are much more efficient than humans
2021-08-06T15:21:47 < englishman> and they produce food without killing them
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2021-08-06T15:49:27 < karlp> englishman: yeah, I get it, just ... hadn't had to deal with it before.
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2021-08-06T16:51:01 < jpa-> karlp: but if you do blind vias, the holes can be smaller even on a thick board :)
2021-08-06T16:55:12 < englishman> i didn't think you were mean jpa
2021-08-06T16:55:16 < englishman> but i agree the mods are terrible here
2021-08-06T17:01:13 < karlp> so I just ask for blind vias that line up with each other right? ;)
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2021-08-06T17:15:57 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, or you can ask for buried vias on layer pairs 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 at the same coordinates
2021-08-06T17:16:09 < karlp> yeah, that's what I meant.
2021-08-06T17:16:14 < karlp> not going to though
2021-08-06T17:16:25 < karlp> this level of optimization can wait til a final vendor is determined for it, 
2021-08-06T17:16:35 < karlp> calibration will automagically do the right thing later... 
2021-08-06T17:17:14 < jpa-> is this for your energy measurement? pcb coils and you just run cable through the hole? :)
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2021-08-06T17:32:23 < karlp> ssshh
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2021-08-06T17:41:39 < karlp> scriptastical: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dY2uA.png
2021-08-06T17:43:11 < jadew> lmfao, Robinhood is trading at a PE of 15k
2021-08-06T17:46:29 < karlp> jpa-: huh, news here was women _kept_ bleeding after 5G shots, not stopped bleeding...
2021-08-06T17:47:37 < karlp> lol at expecting PE to mean anything at all ona  tech stock...
2021-08-06T17:47:56 < karlp> at least it's positive? :)
2021-08-06T17:53:32 < tct> karlp doing swastika-pcb-art?
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2021-08-06T19:48:29 < Steffanx> Lol aandrew  
2021-08-06T19:59:19 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/u5aa6tX.mp4  finished the scrolling part now.... And fek me this took all day to get to this stage... I had to deal with some strange graphic glitches that were coming from 1, the image format holding the font. L4 caused really strange glitches when I put a stencil for the boundaries. L8 would work. But not if i used the text API built into the chip. I had to write a function 
2021-08-06T19:59:19 < Mangy_Dog> that duplicated what the API did, and add kerning to the text as well. Which i had to manually work out... Its taken me ALL DAY to get to this stage! ugguughhhh! 
2021-08-06T19:59:44 < englishman> he's just celebrating the canucks winning gold in soccer, steffy
2021-08-06T20:01:48 < englishman> Md, ive seen you post that project a lot, what does it do?
2021-08-06T20:01:51 < englishman> it's very pretty
2021-08-06T20:02:07 < Mangy_Dog> it mostly looks pretty :p
2021-08-06T20:02:10 < Mangy_Dog> does some beeping
2021-08-06T20:02:16 < Mangy_Dog> flashes leds
2021-08-06T20:02:20 < Mangy_Dog> its basically a toy
2021-08-06T20:02:24 < Mangy_Dog> prop replica
2021-08-06T20:02:30 < englishman> cool!
2021-08-06T20:02:37 < englishman> looks better than in the show
2021-08-06T20:02:51 < Mangy_Dog> yep#
2021-08-06T20:03:00 < Mangy_Dog> im going way way way too over board with this
2021-08-06T20:03:17 < englishman> it is permitted
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2021-08-06T20:12:43 < Steffanx> Will some crazy fan buy this for crazy money, Mangy_Dog?
2021-08-06T20:12:51 < Mangy_Dog> well
2021-08-06T20:12:56 < Mangy_Dog> not crazy crazy money
2021-08-06T20:13:03 < Mangy_Dog> but im selling one for 1000 quid
2021-08-06T20:13:11 < Mangy_Dog> and a second for 1400 quid
2021-08-06T20:13:14 < Steffanx> lol i saw the shoot out of that soccer match englishman. it was cry worthy
2021-08-06T20:13:22 < Mangy_Dog> with a potential third and maybe forth buyer
2021-08-06T20:13:39 < Steffanx> That is crazy to me already Mangy_Dog :)
2021-08-06T20:13:42 < Mangy_Dog> but money that will pay for my new computer and maybe two new monitors and a new chair
2021-08-06T20:13:57 < Mangy_Dog> tbh for all the work i put into these..... im really under pricing it
2021-08-06T20:14:00 < englishman> what is there to cry about steffy
2021-08-06T20:14:01 < BrainDamage> how many hours did you spend developing it?
2021-08-06T20:14:03 < Mangy_Dog> but thats the limit i think thee props can go for
2021-08-06T20:14:10 < Steffanx> they missed like over 50% englishman
2021-08-06T20:14:10 < Mangy_Dog> braindamage............ too many
2021-08-06T20:14:12 < englishman> an icy wasteland beat every country that cares about soccer
2021-08-06T20:14:20 < Mangy_Dog> been workign on and off the project for about 2 years
2021-08-06T20:14:27 < Mangy_Dog> full time since january
2021-08-06T20:14:35 < englishman> i probably would have missed 100%
2021-08-06T20:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> hardware was completed around april may
2021-08-06T20:14:47 < Mangy_Dog> theres about 8000 lines of code written so far
2021-08-06T20:14:54 < Mangy_Dog> mostly UI command scripts
2021-08-06T20:15:06 < Mangy_Dog> and a whole fuck ton of core system stuff
2021-08-06T20:15:19 < Mangy_Dog> its really really really ott
2021-08-06T20:15:38 < Mangy_Dog> im also hoping to use it as a porfolio for trying to get an actual job
2021-08-06T20:15:45 < Mangy_Dog> i cant carry on being pennyless
2021-08-06T20:16:20 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention just to build the hardware takes about 3 or so weeks worth of time
2021-08-06T20:18:05 < BrainDamage> 1k$ is way underselling it
2021-08-06T20:18:19 < BrainDamage> unless you can sell at least 20 or so
2021-08-06T20:19:39 < jpa-> though, if you enjoy it and learn something..
2021-08-06T20:20:33 < BrainDamage> yeah, but the goal shifted from hobby to gain substenance
2021-08-06T20:22:06 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: is getting an actual job really so difficult there? it seems you have a bunch of skill
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2021-08-06T20:22:19 < Mangy_Dog> it really is :/
2021-08-06T20:22:25 < Mangy_Dog> at the very least for me
2021-08-06T20:22:52 < Mangy_Dog> part of it is where i live
2021-08-06T20:22:55 < Mangy_Dog> im in norfolk
2021-08-06T20:23:05 < Mangy_Dog> not tons of developer jobs around here
2021-08-06T20:23:20 < Mangy_Dog> one big issue is chicken and the egg... 
2021-08-06T20:23:27 < Mangy_Dog> theyre even asking for 5 years experience for juniour roles
2021-08-06T20:23:36 < Mangy_Dog> its really hard to get that foot in the door
2021-08-06T20:37:46 < englishman> guys here learned about altium hierarchical design
2021-08-06T20:37:50 < englishman> now there's one component per schematic
2021-08-06T20:38:21 < mawk> the purest form of design
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2021-08-06T22:20:37 < bitmask> why does nothing work
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2021-08-06T22:26:41 < Steffanx> You can do it bitmask 
2021-08-06T22:27:52 < bitmask> ahh i had to power the board before st link would connect, thats weird
2021-08-06T22:28:20 < bitmask> lets see if debugging works now
2021-08-06T22:28:57 < bitmask> ok cool
2021-08-06T22:29:00 < bitmask> success
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2021-08-06T22:32:43 < Steffanx> Told you
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2021-08-06T22:47:58 < bitmask> hmm, it actually loses connection after uploading, probably need the reset line connected huh
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2021-08-06T23:51:17 < zyp> bitmask, why is it weird that you have to power stuff for it to work?
2021-08-06T23:51:45 < bitmask> i thought it would be able to power itself from the Vcc pin on the st link
2021-08-06T23:52:20 < zyp> have you turned on power out on the st-link then?
2021-08-06T23:53:23 < bitmask> i didnt know that was a thing, never used a st link before
2021-08-06T23:53:43 < zyp> me neither, I've only used the onboard st-link on discovery boards
2021-08-06T23:54:42 < zyp> but generally a debugger won't output power unless explicitly told to, you generally don't want to go feeding power into a rail on the target board from a different source than the regulator that usually feeds it
2021-08-06T23:55:22 < zyp> the main purpose of that pin is to act as an input to the debugger, e.g. as a reference voltage for voltage translating buffers
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2021-08-06T23:56:38 < bitmask> i see
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2021-08-06T23:58:19 < zyp> not sure what the capabilities of the st-link are, but the orbtracemini has a configurable regulator so that it can both be sourced from the target, or provided at a selectable voltage
2021-08-06T23:59:09 < Steffanx> is the orbtracemini even real yet?
2021-08-06T23:59:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XHzyw.jpg
--- Day changed Sat Aug 07 2021
2021-08-07T00:00:18 < Steffanx> but just on your hands.
2021-08-07T00:00:37 < Steffanx> or a tiny select group of people.
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2021-08-07T00:02:13 < zyp> I'll have ~150 of them soon
2021-08-07T00:03:02 < bitmask> oh the orbtrace is your project?
2021-08-07T00:03:51 < Steffanx> ah cool
2021-08-07T00:04:56 < zyp> bitmask, yeah, the pcb is my design, but the gateware is a collaboration
2021-08-07T00:05:14 < bitmask> you have a site for buying them?
2021-08-07T00:05:26 < zyp> not yet, working on it
2021-08-07T00:07:56 < Steffanx> What does it actually "run" some softcore + logic or .. 
2021-08-07T00:09:34 < zyp> either
2021-08-07T00:11:25 < zyp> the gateware is modular, currently it got both a full HS USB stack, trace pipeline and CMSIS-DAP implementation in HDL, i.e. no softcore needed, but it also fits a risc-v next to that
2021-08-07T00:15:00 < zyp> eventually I expect the softcore will either run a port of BMP or a similar self-contained gdbserver
2021-08-07T00:42:27 < Steffanx> aha
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2021-08-07T00:48:59 < c4017w__> Does anyone have an SVD containing core debug registers (DHCSR) for m4?
2021-08-07T00:54:48 < c4017w__> ah I finally found it again https://github.com/memfault/interrupt/blob/master/example/cortex-m-fault-debug/cortex-m4-scb.svd
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2021-08-07T01:09:39 < dodo__> Hello, I have an RTC (MCP7940) connected to a I2C bus in a custom board (based on NUCLEO_L152RE). I'm using stm32duino. The RTC works fine until another part of my program crashes and the watchdog restart the firmware. Some times the restart goes fine, but other times the I2C hangs. seems like Wire lib can't reset propery the I2C. Is there a low level register that I can set to solve my problem?
2021-08-07T01:10:35 < dodo__> properly*
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2021-08-07T01:35:04 < c4017w__> Anyone ever experienced a case where systick interrupt is pending but won't execute? My app runs in RAM. The first time I load it after powering up, works fine. If I restart the debug session I run into this problem. Only solution is to power cycle
2021-08-07T01:37:32 < c4017w__> dodo__, when it hangs, are either of the I2C lines stuck low?
2021-08-07T01:40:15 < dodo__> c4017w__: I'm checking this right now with a digitalRead
2021-08-07T01:40:40 < dodo__> What should I do if the are stuck low?
2021-08-07T01:44:12 < c4017w__> If it's low it would indicate that either the RTC is busy or the STM got reset while it was in the middle of I2C communication. Probably the best thing you can do is send a stop condition after setting up the I2C
2021-08-07T01:44:51 < c4017w__> dodo__, which part of the code hangs? I2C initialization or later when you communicate with the RTC?
2021-08-07T01:45:16 < dodo__> c4017w__: I2C initialization
2021-08-07T01:45:42 < c4017w__> Can you track down where exactly it hangs?
2021-08-07T01:46:53 < dodo__> Oh, sorry, the lib that manages the RTC is starting the I2C, so I don't know if it is the I2C initialization or the comunication. I will use gdb to debug
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2021-08-07T02:04:24 < dodo__> c4017w__: It is not stepping into the if, as it is not detecting RTC address. returns False, code here  http://paste.debian.net/1206845/
2021-08-07T02:08:05 < c4017w__> dodo__, I would check the state of the I2C lines with a voltmeter just before Wire.beginTransmission. They should both be high. I guess you don't have a scope or logic analyzer?
2021-08-07T02:08:40 < dodo__> yes, I have
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2021-08-07T02:11:33 < c4017w__> Then you can capture the clock and data lines as it runs through begin and endTransmission and see what's going wrong
2021-08-07T02:12:00 < c4017w__> dodo__, If you can post a picture of the scope capture that would help
2021-08-07T02:12:13 < dodo__>  c4017w__: SCL is HIGH, and SDA is LOW right before  Wire.beginTransmission
2021-08-07T02:12:28 < dodo__> ok, I will attach the logic analyzer
2021-08-07T02:13:16 < c4017w__> Are you able to detach the RTC (or remove its power) or is it soldered on? 
2021-08-07T02:13:27 < c4017w__> I wonder if it's the RTC or the STM that is pulling SDA low
2021-08-07T02:14:41 < dodo__> It's soldered to the PCB. I have the schematic if you want to take a look
2021-08-07T02:18:24 < c4017w__> Just looking at the Wire library now. It's unlikely the STM is pulling it low. Most likely your watchdog expires during a transmission which leaves the RTC holding SDA low
2021-08-07T02:18:56 < c4017w__> If you could manually send an I2C stop condition after Wire.begin() I bet it would fix it
2021-08-07T02:19:13 < c4017w__> but the library doens't expose that function...
2021-08-07T02:20:19 < c4017w__> uh assuming you're using this one anyway  https://github.com/DFRobot/STM32/tree/master/libraries/Wire
2021-08-07T02:21:05 < dodo__> I'm using stm32duino, so it should be this one: https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/tree/master/libraries/Wire
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2021-08-07T02:41:08 < Steffanx> lol, joy.. its 1.40 AM and someone is playing on his keyboard with speakers on max volume. And i thought i lived in a small peaceful village.
2021-08-07T02:44:52 < c4017w__> dodo__, not sure with that library. easiest option is probably to set the pins up as GPIO and bitbang a stop condition before setting up the wire library. Something like this: https://github.com/DFRobot/STM32/blob/master/libraries/Wire/Wire.cpp#L57
2021-08-07T02:51:51 < dodo__> Ok. I just found the logic analyzer.
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2021-08-07T04:58:43 < dodo__> c4017w__: https://i.imgur.com/MvEf5V6.png
2021-08-07T05:01:33 < dodo__> it then stays like that. After the reboot, Wire.begin() and Wire.beginTransmission(MCP7940_ADDRESS) doesn't move the SDA and SCL lines
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2021-08-07T19:43:57 < Mangy_Dog> Having another odd maths issue... Im trying to reorder an array by offset. I got it mostly working but the first value is getting corrupted.  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/873607013022715964/unknown.png . scrollCurr is a value of the offset, also used for my line movment rendering. Im basically tryign to capture each data entry that was offseted by the scroll effect. 
2021-08-07T19:43:57 < Mangy_Dog> And put it into a new version of that array...
2021-08-07T19:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> struggling to explain
2021-08-07T19:44:53 < mouseghost> me no understand
2021-08-07T19:45:03 < Mangy_Dog> yeah sorry
2021-08-07T19:45:08 < Mangy_Dog> im not doing a good job explaining
2021-08-07T19:45:15 < mouseghost> can you show array pre and post?
2021-08-07T19:46:13 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/u5aa6tX.mp4  
2021-08-07T19:46:16 < Mangy_Dog> right
2021-08-07T19:46:20 < Mangy_Dog> take a look at that video
2021-08-07T19:46:30 < Mangy_Dog> the data in those columns are stored in a simple array
2021-08-07T19:46:34 < Mangy_Dog> random generated numbers
2021-08-07T19:46:39 < mouseghost> ooo fancy
2021-08-07T19:46:49 < Mangy_Dog> As they scroll up and down, its reading off array 1
2021-08-07T19:47:08 < Mangy_Dog> in my code numData
2021-08-07T19:47:16 < Mangy_Dog> and its just offsetting the location of that text box
2021-08-07T19:47:26 < Mangy_Dog> Im reaching the next stage of the effect no
2021-08-07T19:47:27 < Mangy_Dog> now
2021-08-07T19:47:46 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-07T19:48:00 < Mangy_Dog> And to make it simpler, I want to reorganise that data back into numData but with the data now offset back to 0123456789
2021-08-07T19:48:12 < Mangy_Dog> to make it simpler for me to animate the next stage
2021-08-07T19:48:42 < Mangy_Dog> So
2021-08-07T19:48:45  * mouseghost more confused
2021-08-07T19:48:56 < mouseghost> i understand that you want to kinda carousel the numbers?
2021-08-07T19:49:26 < Mangy_Dog> yes but i want to remove the need for offsetting
2021-08-07T19:49:28 < mouseghost> idk maybe u offset it by one or something
2021-08-07T19:49:55 < Mangy_Dog> so i want what evers in [4] to go to [0]. [5] to go to [1] ect
2021-08-07T19:50:07 < Mangy_Dog> depending on the offset of course
2021-08-07T19:50:49 < Mangy_Dog> its mostly working
2021-08-07T19:50:50 < Mangy_Dog> but
2021-08-07T19:50:57 < Mangy_Dog> [0] is getting corrupted data
2021-08-07T19:51:18 < Mangy_Dog> or an over flow from somewhere
2021-08-07T19:51:45 < mouseghost> Mangy_Dog, your i is uint
2021-08-07T19:51:46 < mouseghost> so
2021-08-07T19:51:47 < mouseghost> idk
2021-08-07T19:51:47 < mouseghost> buty
2021-08-07T19:51:48 < mouseghost> but
2021-08-07T19:52:00 < mouseghost> maybe..
2021-08-07T19:52:05 < mouseghost> you could try making it int..
2021-08-07T19:52:05 < mouseghost> idk
2021-08-07T19:52:24 < Mangy_Dog> i shouldnt make any difference
2021-08-07T19:52:28 < Mangy_Dog> thats always a positive number
2021-08-07T19:52:37 < Mangy_Dog> its generated by the loop
2021-08-07T19:52:47 < mouseghost> ye but
2021-08-07T19:52:52 < mouseghost> theres i + scrollcurr
2021-08-07T19:52:55 < mouseghost> idk if it matters
2021-08-07T19:53:01 < Mangy_Dog> it shouldnt
2021-08-07T19:53:04 < mouseghost> probably shouldnt... ye...
2021-08-07T19:53:06 < Mangy_Dog> because i is always a positive number
2021-08-07T19:53:55 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2021-08-07T19:53:56 < Mangy_Dog> didnt work
2021-08-07T20:00:40 < mouseghost> and shuffoffset is what
2021-08-07T20:00:50 < mouseghost> *scrollcur
2021-08-07T20:03:02 < Mangy_Dog> is the offset value to read the original array from
2021-08-07T20:03:20 < Mangy_Dog> correcting for when it goes out of range against the for loop i
2021-08-07T20:07:40 < mouseghost> well shit idk
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2021-08-07T20:12:04 < kraiskil> maybe time to dust off the debugger? :D
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2021-08-07T20:26:39 < PaulFertser> kraiskil: Mangy_Dog doesn't like using a debugger, probably because some arduino IDE doesn't support it or something like that.
2021-08-07T20:27:01 < Mangy_Dog> i do like a debugger
2021-08-07T20:27:08 < Mangy_Dog> its just stopped working on this project
2021-08-07T20:27:17 < kraiskil> :p
2021-08-07T20:27:29 < PaulFertser> And despite that Mangy_Dog creates super-awesome artistic projects which look and feel just fine.
2021-08-07T20:27:29 < Mangy_Dog> sorry did some one reply to me when my net was down?
2021-08-07T20:27:40 < Mangy_Dog> only just
2021-08-07T20:27:49 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2021-08-07T20:28:25 < kraiskil> How does a debugger *stop* working :D
2021-08-07T20:28:32 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know :(
2021-08-07T20:28:38 < Mangy_Dog> its been a pain
2021-08-07T20:28:41 < Mangy_Dog> i had help setting it up
2021-08-07T20:28:45 < kraiskil> except maybe repurposing of the jtag GPIOs
2021-08-07T20:28:46 < Mangy_Dog> got it working
2021-08-07T20:28:53 < Mangy_Dog> and then suddenly it failed to start running
2021-08-07T20:29:01 < Mangy_Dog> i had some help trying to get it working again
2021-08-07T20:29:04 < kraiskil> what is the target processor?
2021-08-07T20:29:07 < Mangy_Dog> but we couldnt get it running
2021-08-07T20:29:10 < Mangy_Dog> f103
2021-08-07T20:29:31 < kraiskil> wow. That is an achievemet to get the debugger failing on that :D
2021-08-07T20:29:50 < kraiskil> although, I should have gotten a clue from the name of the channel, tbh...
2021-08-07T20:30:00 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: are you using OpenOCD? You never asked me to explain the failures with it, and I usually can do that.
2021-08-07T20:30:13 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2021-08-07T20:30:19 < kraiskil> PaulFertser, :)
2021-08-07T20:30:29 < kraiskil> You've saved me several times :p
2021-08-07T20:30:50 < PaulFertser> Glad to hear :)
2021-08-07T20:31:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/873619378451677204/unknown.png  
2021-08-07T20:31:43 < Mangy_Dog> heres the error i get when tryign to run the debugger now
2021-08-07T20:31:50 < PaulFertser> Not pressing a link containing the d-word
2021-08-07T20:32:04 < Mangy_Dog> its just a screen shot
2021-08-07T20:32:07 < Mangy_Dog> of eclipse
2021-08-07T20:32:11 < Mangy_Dog> with all the errors and consols open
2021-08-07T20:32:19 < PaulFertser> Yes, please paste it to some other site, I'll take a look right away.
2021-08-07T20:32:25 < Mangy_Dog> dont like discord?
2021-08-07T20:32:37 < PaulFertser> Feel offended every time I see it mentioned even.
2021-08-07T20:33:03 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/WuyKmzx
2021-08-07T20:33:05 < Mangy_Dog> odd but ok
2021-08-07T20:33:12 < PaulFertser> OpenBMC project switched to it from IRC, now I can't talk to them other than by mailing list and Gerrit comments.
2021-08-07T20:33:26 < PaulFertser> I probably wouldn't care if not that.
2021-08-07T20:34:42 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: are you using FreeRTOS for this project?
2021-08-07T20:35:55 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: even if you do, the first step would be to omit $_TARGETNAME configure -rtos command altogether from the config.
2021-08-07T20:36:28 < Mangy_Dog> yeah using freertos
2021-08-07T20:36:54 < Mangy_Dog> where wpild i find that ?
2021-08-07T20:36:57 < Mangy_Dog> would
2021-08-07T20:37:16 < kraiskil> Second step would be to omit freertos from the project
2021-08-07T20:37:18  * kraiskil ducks
2021-08-07T20:37:19 < PaulFertser> Because this error you show might be related to "load" failing. The debugger itself is connecting to the target nicely, then it tries to assume your project is using FreeRTOS to be able to show you threads and everything, and that falis because your project doesn't include the necessary symbol. The OpenOCD user manual has specific instructions on how to add that symbol to a FreeRTOS project if
2021-08-07T20:37:25 < PaulFertser> you need the "rtos" functionality.
2021-08-07T20:37:44 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: in the OpenOCD config. How is OpenOCD started? There must be either some command line options or a config file passed to it.
2021-08-07T20:38:14 < Mangy_Dog> no idea
2021-08-07T20:38:41 < kraiskil> eclipse-magic...
2021-08-07T20:38:58 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: OpenOCD can work with your project if you disable RTOS awareness. Or you need to add that additional file described in the manual to the project to make rtos awareness working..
2021-08-07T20:39:31 < Mangy_Dog> which manual?
2021-08-07T20:39:38 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: the OpenOCD User Manual.
2021-08-07T20:39:51 < PaulFertser> It comes along with the OpenOCD binary.
2021-08-07T20:42:28 < Mangy_Dog> what file#
2021-08-07T20:42:30 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2021-08-07T20:42:30 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-07T20:42:35 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: if you prefer offline manuals you can buy it too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Openocd-Open-On-Chip-Debugger-Reference-Manual-by-Openocd-Team-English-Paper-/361555769684 but that would be for an old version I'm afraid.
2021-08-07T20:43:12 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: openocd.info  openocd.info-1  openocd.info-2
2021-08-07T20:43:14 < Mangy_Dog> im looking at the folder with the openocd.exe and theres no h files
2021-08-07T20:44:01 < Mangy_Dog> yeah dont have those files anywhere in my openocd
2021-08-07T20:44:11 < PaulFertser> I didn't say it's in the same directory as the binary. But whoever is creating the package is supposed to always pack the online manual inside (unless the target is space-constrained such as OpenWrt targets). 
2021-08-07T20:44:39 < PaulFertser> All other distros but OpenWrt package manual and place it in /usr/share/info where all Info browsers expect to find it.
2021-08-07T20:45:07 < Mangy_Dog> why does this debugger have to be so complicated
2021-08-07T20:45:21 < PaulFertser> Ahem, how do you find manuals for the other software you're using, e.g. for GDB?
2021-08-07T20:45:37 < Mangy_Dog> GDB?
2021-08-07T20:46:31 < Mangy_Dog> ok thats part of the debugger?
2021-08-07T20:46:34 < Mangy_Dog> again
2021-08-07T20:46:38 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: regarding this error specifically, to be able to implement thread awareness OpenOCD needs to know the compile-time constant used when building the project using OpenOCD. And since some version FreeRTOS stopped to include that as a separate variable so there's no practical way for OpenOCD to get this info from anywhere, and without it the in-memory structures can't be parsed reliably.
2021-08-07T20:46:39 < Mangy_Dog> I had help setting the thing up
2021-08-07T20:46:41 < Mangy_Dog> so i have no idea
2021-08-07T20:46:53 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I mean where do you get manuals for any software you use?
2021-08-07T20:47:03 < jpa-> PaulFertser: generally nowadays, people find manuals by google, or they do not find them
2021-08-07T20:47:07 < PaulFertser> For me it's either the man pages or the info manuals, and they're always at the expected place.
2021-08-07T20:47:15 < Mangy_Dog> well yes i google 
2021-08-07T20:47:19 < PaulFertser> Or in /usr/share/doc/ if it's in some other format.
2021-08-07T20:47:39 < jpa-> http://openocd.org/doc/html/index.html   in case of openocd, they don't find it ;)
2021-08-07T20:47:45 < PaulFertser> jpa-: when using google what would be an easy way to make sure the manual found corresponds to the version used?
2021-08-07T20:47:47 < Mangy_Dog> but i also spent a week trying to figure out how to setup openocd outside of linux. its a pain in the arse and i gave u
2021-08-07T20:47:49 < Mangy_Dog> up
2021-08-07T20:47:54 < Mangy_Dog> after spending a week trying to
2021-08-07T20:48:07 < Mangy_Dog> thats when i had help from some one to set it up in windows
2021-08-07T20:48:14 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: OpenOCD has nothing Linux specific (if you do not count the drivers for GPIO bitbanging)
2021-08-07T20:48:29 < jpa-> PaulFertser: that is the problem of the writers of the manual, the users won't check
2021-08-07T20:48:44 < Mangy_Dog> apart from openocd being mostly compiled for linux and had to first spend a while trying to get a windows version that just happened to work
2021-08-07T20:48:48 < PaulFertser> jpa-: should the manuals mention the version on each and every page?
2021-08-07T20:49:24 < jpa-> PaulFertser: probably won't help - mentioning specific differences at important points sometimes works, but generally the best is just to have only newest version manuals online
2021-08-07T20:49:28 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: one of ST Microelectronics developers cared to make Github auto-build a full windows package for every released and unreleased version.
2021-08-07T20:49:54 < jpa-> notes like "Added in version 1.2.3" are useful for big differences
2021-08-07T20:49:56 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2021-08-07T20:49:58 < Mangy_Dog> right now
2021-08-07T20:50:05 < Mangy_Dog> I dont want to be trying to fix my tools
2021-08-07T20:50:11 < Mangy_Dog> i need to get on with this project
2021-08-07T20:50:20 < kraiskil> :D
2021-08-07T20:50:25 < Mangy_Dog> im going to be rebuilding windows soon as im done
2021-08-07T20:50:26 < Mangy_Dog> i can fix it then
2021-08-07T20:50:27 < PaulFertser> jpa-: why don't people use the real online manuals instead? It's so natural, just type "man openocd", it tells you to refer to Info, you quit and type "info openocd" and you can be sure you're reading the right version, plus you have search integrated. Why not this obvious way?
2021-08-07T20:50:31 < Mangy_Dog> starting off fresh on everything
2021-08-07T20:50:54 < Mangy_Dog> id rather just have a second pair of eyes telling me what im doing wrong thats causing the first entry in the array to get corrupted
2021-08-07T20:50:59 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: in this particular case the problem is clear. You ask OpenOCD for FreeRTOS support but do not provide it with the necessary data.
2021-08-07T20:51:04 < Mangy_Dog> given i dont trust my own basic maths
2021-08-07T20:51:27 < Mangy_Dog> then why was it workign with freertos before?
2021-08-07T20:51:32 < Mangy_Dog> it worked fine for ages
2021-08-07T20:51:36 < Mangy_Dog> then suddenly stopped
2021-08-07T20:51:47 < PaulFertser> Probably your project had the data? Probably you didn't ask it for freertos support?
2021-08-07T20:52:00 < kraiskil> how about reverting back to the working version?
2021-08-07T20:52:09 < Mangy_Dog> im not keeping verioning
2021-08-07T20:52:13 < PaulFertser> Probably the newer version started to behave slightly different in the absence of the needed data.
2021-08-07T20:52:14 < Mangy_Dog> versioning
2021-08-07T20:52:24 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention it stopped working months ago
2021-08-07T20:52:27 < PaulFertser> But it's easy to fix, just do not demand what OpenOCD can't provide.
2021-08-07T20:52:51 < Mangy_Dog> and how do i do that??
2021-08-07T20:53:00 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know what its asking for
2021-08-07T20:53:04 < Mangy_Dog> let alone wha ti need to turn off
2021-08-07T20:53:09 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: how do you even start OpenOCD?
2021-08-07T20:53:14 < Mangy_Dog> I DONT
2021-08-07T20:53:18 < Mangy_Dog> its a one button thing
2021-08-07T20:53:20 < Mangy_Dog> in eclipse
2021-08-07T20:53:27 < PaulFertser> So you press the eclipse button with the bug?
2021-08-07T20:53:31 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-08-07T20:53:54 < PaulFertser> Isn't there some downwards facing triangle there that you can press and then select "configure debug tools" or something like that?
2021-08-07T20:54:04 < PaulFertser> Or do the same by using the menu.
2021-08-07T20:54:18 < PaulFertser> Configure hardware debugging settings etc.
2021-08-07T20:54:47 < PaulFertser> IIRC last time I tried Eclipse it was relatively straightforward, I clicked around a bit and saw the right configuration menu.
2021-08-07T20:55:09 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/a/IbxDftN
2021-08-07T20:55:10 < Mangy_Dog> that?
2021-08-07T20:55:51 < PaulFertser> Yes. Please pastebin the contents of stm32f1x.cfg file.
2021-08-07T20:56:21 < PaulFertser> I suspect it was edited from the stock.
2021-08-07T20:57:33 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/USt94nMf
2021-08-07T20:58:37 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: in line 56 remove "-rtos FreeRTOS" and retry starting debug.
2021-08-07T20:59:14 < Mangy_Dog> still failing
2021-08-07T20:59:29 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: with exactly the same error?
2021-08-07T20:59:34 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-08-07T20:59:59 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: then either the file wasn't saved or there's the same file you didn't edit elsewhere.
2021-08-07T21:00:14 < Mangy_Dog> deffo was saved
2021-08-07T21:00:18 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: this line 56 clearly asks for FreeRTOS support, and without it OpenOCD won't be mentioning it.
2021-08-07T21:00:36 < PaulFertser> Or the file was modified again by some tool. Easy to check it again.
2021-08-07T21:00:54 < Mangy_Dog> nope was saved
2021-08-07T21:01:18 < PaulFertser> And yet OpenOCD still tells something about FreeRTOS?
2021-08-07T21:01:26 < PaulFertser> Then it means the real file is elsewhere.
2021-08-07T21:01:32 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-08-07T21:01:37 < Mangy_Dog> it never said anythign about freertos
2021-08-07T21:01:54 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: https://i.imgur.com/WuyKmzx.png isn't this your screenshot?
2021-08-07T21:02:04 < Mangy_Dog> oh that bit
2021-08-07T21:02:05 < Mangy_Dog> ignore that
2021-08-07T21:02:09 < Mangy_Dog> look at the dialogue box
2021-08-07T21:02:35 < Mangy_Dog> those two lines are no longer in the console
2021-08-07T21:02:37 < PaulFertser> I can't ignore, it is a real error and it might affect flashing.
2021-08-07T21:02:50 < PaulFertser> Then I need to see all the new output etc.
2021-08-07T21:03:08 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/a/QXiq7Tr
2021-08-07T21:05:31 < Mangy_Dog> this is why i hate eclipse
2021-08-07T21:05:35 < Mangy_Dog> its a converluted mess
2021-08-07T21:05:46 < Mangy_Dog> stupidly fragile that breaks at the slightest sneeze
2021-08-07T21:05:49 < Steffanx> No, youre doing it wrong
2021-08-07T21:06:05 < kraiskil> That's real helpful :D
2021-08-07T21:06:20 < Steffanx> You cannot blame eclipse for wrong configuration by the user.
2021-08-07T21:06:52 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: can you check the full path in that error message, the one starting with F:\workspace really carefully?
2021-08-07T21:07:10 < Mangy_Dog> no but i can blaim it for randomly refusing to build a project, throw random errors from the build only to start building correctly again if i go back into the projects properties and click "ok" and come out again or just restart the program
2021-08-07T21:07:10 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: is it really full path to an ELF file you have available?
2021-08-07T21:07:33 < Steffanx> Sounds like your sloeber shit, Mangy_Dog
2021-08-07T21:07:40 < Mangy_Dog> it might be sloeber too
2021-08-07T21:07:41 < Mangy_Dog> who knows
2021-08-07T21:07:44 < Mangy_Dog> really... WHO KNOWS
2021-08-07T21:08:31 < Steffanx> Anyway, i would try to LISTEN and not go "shit that, shit this". PaulFertser is trying to help you ;)
2021-08-07T21:08:40 < Mangy_Dog> i am listening
2021-08-07T21:09:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/V7ZQ4l2.png
2021-08-07T21:09:08 < Mangy_Dog> the elf is there
2021-08-07T21:09:28 < Mangy_Dog> im just tired of eclipse breaking all the time
2021-08-07T21:09:39 < Steffanx> There might be more output windows with information about what goes wrong. Do you see more output windows?
2021-08-07T21:11:07 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-08-07T21:11:22 < Mangy_Dog> the 2 conoles regarding debug are shown in that screen shot
2021-08-07T21:13:24 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: can you start openocd.exe manually from a shell with the same arguments as in your configuration screenshot? And then in another shell arm-none-eabi-gdb.exe (you have full path to it in screenshots)
2021-08-07T21:14:04 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming you mean windows powershell? and not cmd?
2021-08-07T21:14:18 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: doesn't matter, whatever you prefer
2021-08-07T21:15:50 < Mangy_Dog> where is arm-none-eabi-gdb.exe ?
2021-08-07T21:16:02 < Mangy_Dog> o nm
2021-08-07T21:16:03 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2021-08-07T21:17:03 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/QlZXa8y.png
2021-08-07T21:17:27 < kraiskil> Great Success!
2021-08-07T21:18:27 < Mangy_Dog> is it?
2021-08-07T21:18:47 < kraiskil> it works, so yea
2021-08-07T21:19:01 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: now in gdb prompt type "tar ext :3333"
2021-08-07T21:19:24 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: and then if it doesn't complain about anything try "load F:\\workspace\\" (path to that ELF).
2021-08-07T21:22:12 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/c3NriUn.png
2021-08-07T21:23:00 < Steffanx> use \\ not \
2021-08-07T21:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> i did
2021-08-07T21:23:11 < Mangy_Dog> see second attempt
2021-08-07T21:23:14 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: try "mon reset halt" and then rerun the load command (you can press arrow up to bring it from history).
2021-08-07T21:23:27 < Steffanx> ah
2021-08-07T21:23:58 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/uYzpPZM.png
2021-08-07T21:24:58 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I see the size of your .text section (so binary code for the firmware) is 85052, is that correct?
2021-08-07T21:25:36 < Mangy_Dog> 91988kb
2021-08-07T21:25:40 < Mangy_Dog> the bin size
2021-08-07T21:25:53 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: but your STM32F103 is detected as one having 64 kiB flash.
2021-08-07T21:25:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so it doesn't fit.
2021-08-07T21:26:04 < Mangy_Dog> well
2021-08-07T21:26:16 < Mangy_Dog> its one of those spcial f103c8s
2021-08-07T21:26:21 < Mangy_Dog> special
2021-08-07T21:26:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: is that your intention to use the undocumented special memory?
2021-08-07T21:26:33 < Mangy_Dog> the ones that are just binned cbs
2021-08-07T21:26:44 < Mangy_Dog> well for now yes
2021-08-07T21:27:19 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: ok then, in your stm32f1x.cfg on line 30 set it to 131072 instead of 0.
2021-08-07T21:27:45 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: then quit the running OpenOCD (you can press Ctrl-C for that)
2021-08-07T21:28:16 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: then try starting debugging the way you did it before (pressing the bug button in Eclipse).
2021-08-07T21:28:17 < Mangy_Dog> its working!
2021-08-07T21:28:37 < Mangy_Dog> i had a feeling it might have been that tbh
2021-08-07T21:28:53 < Steffanx> DAMN why didnt Eclipse do this all for you? Such terrible IDE.
2021-08-07T21:28:54 < PaulFertser> And it explains why it was working before.
2021-08-07T21:28:59 < Mangy_Dog> as it was aroudn the time i was testing to see if the chip would accept a bin bitter than 64k
2021-08-07T21:29:13 < Mangy_Dog> what error said that?
2021-08-07T21:30:48 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I saw GDB saying that it's loading the .text section and then failing right away. I saw no other errors, both OpenOCD and GDB were silent. Never saw this before but decided to check the size of .text just in case since it was the only meaningful thing printed right before the failure. And I spotted OpenOCD detects flash as 64 kiB right at the moment I was looking at your very first
2021-08-07T21:30:54 < PaulFertser> screenshot.
2021-08-07T21:31:16 < Mangy_Dog> ah
2021-08-07T21:31:27 < Mangy_Dog> so the error itself didnt specifically say what the issue was
2021-08-07T21:31:28 < Mangy_Dog> just
2021-08-07T21:31:34 < Mangy_Dog> you saw the spec show up
2021-08-07T21:31:39 < Steffanx> Doesnt openocd come with some more verbose mode that actually shows this went wrong, PaulFertser?
2021-08-07T21:31:48 < Mangy_Dog> that would be nice
2021-08-07T21:32:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I think in this case GDB didn't even try to flash because OpenOCD passed it a memory map which was smaller than .text needed.
2021-08-07T21:32:19 < Mangy_Dog> 131072 is that KB?
2021-08-07T21:32:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: so probably OpenOCD didn't receive anything at all from GDB.
2021-08-07T21:32:37 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: makes sense
2021-08-07T21:32:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: 131072 is bytes, same number as 128 kiB.
2021-08-07T21:32:57 < Mangy_Dog> so are 124KB actually 131KB?
2021-08-07T21:33:15 < Mangy_Dog> umm 128 i mean :D
2021-08-07T21:33:17 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: 128 kiB is actually just about 131 KB, yes.
2021-08-07T21:33:24 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2021-08-07T21:33:31 < Steffanx> im actually pretty sure there is some window in eclipse where you can see the commands sent to gdb.
2021-08-07T21:33:31 < Mangy_Dog> KiB?
2021-08-07T21:33:33 < kraiskil> so why didn't eclipse show the gdb error that was visible on the gdb terminal?
2021-08-07T21:34:28 < Mangy_Dog> oh gah
2021-08-07T21:34:33 < Steffanx> You mean other errors than "load failed"  kraiskil?
2021-08-07T21:34:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: we saw it on screenshot, it was just "load F:\\..."
2021-08-07T21:34:46 < Mangy_Dog> KiB is just shorthand for KB but rounded off
2021-08-07T21:34:47 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: no, kiB
2021-08-07T21:34:58 < Steffanx> no, another window PaulFertser. Window as in dialog
2021-08-07T21:35:02 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: no, kiB means kibibytes
2021-08-07T21:35:13 < PaulFertser> kB means kilobytes
2021-08-07T21:35:34 < Steffanx> But maybe its just CubeIDE that has this additional dialog/output/whatever you want to call it
2021-08-07T21:35:34 < kraiskil> Steffanx, the "loading .text of size >> 64k" 
2021-08-07T21:35:42 < Mangy_Dog> So when STM are advatising 128KB flash they really meant KiB flash
2021-08-07T21:35:58 < PaulFertser> Yes, "kiB"
2021-08-07T21:36:07 < PaulFertser> Same about RAM
2021-08-07T21:36:18 < Mangy_Dog> so theres actually a little more ram than it first seems then
2021-08-07T21:36:18 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2021-08-07T21:36:22 < Mangy_Dog> bonus :p
2021-08-07T21:37:10 < PaulFertser> Hm, I was wrong, in case of kibibytes and kilobytes it should be capital K.
2021-08-07T21:37:16 < Mangy_Dog> that actually explains why there seems to be a lot more than 1kb of flash after putting my 1kb of epprom at what i thought was the last kb in the table
2021-08-07T21:37:44 < PaulFertser> Hah, no, kilobyte should be kB while kibibyte can be KiB.
2021-08-07T21:37:49 < kraiskil> PaulFertser, capital K is Kelvin, kilo is lower case
2021-08-07T21:38:09 < Mangy_Dog> im glad im not hte only one confuse by kiB:p
2021-08-07T21:38:15 < PaulFertser> kraiskil: I'm reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte#Multiple-byte_units
2021-08-07T21:38:16 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2021-08-07T21:38:18 < Mangy_Dog> Pual
2021-08-07T21:38:21 < Mangy_Dog> THANK YOU!
2021-08-07T21:38:24  * Mangy_Dog hgus
2021-08-07T21:38:26  * Mangy_Dog hugs
2021-08-07T21:39:01 < Mangy_Dog> its one less hassle
2021-08-07T21:39:09 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
2021-08-07T21:39:09 < kraiskil> <Mangy_Dog> I dont want to be trying to fix my tools
2021-08-07T21:39:09 < kraiskil> <Mangy_Dog> i need to get on with this project
2021-08-07T21:39:15 < kraiskil> :D
2021-08-07T21:39:22 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah i guess i can now try and figure out why the arrap[0] is getting errored data
2021-08-07T21:39:23 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: welcome :)
2021-08-07T21:39:52 < Mangy_Dog> kraiskil you have to admit... this was awkward and a pain...
2021-08-07T21:39:55 < Mangy_Dog> and like i say
2021-08-07T21:40:02 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse always seems to breaking
2021-08-07T21:40:02 < Steffanx> The next time Mangy_Dog complains about his tools i will remember him of this day. 7th of August 2021
2021-08-07T21:40:34 < Mangy_Dog> a broken tool via obsfucation(spelling) is still a broken tool
2021-08-07T21:40:45 < kraiskil> Programming always is an awkward pain.
2021-08-07T21:40:51 < kraiskil> If not, its called scripting :p
2021-08-07T21:41:04 < Steffanx> What openocd plugin do you use Mangy_Dog?
2021-08-07T21:41:14 < Mangy_Dog> tbh programming is a pain... and i must rather be focusing on that one than the fixing the tools bit
2021-08-07T21:41:20 < Mangy_Dog> uuuuhhhh
2021-08-07T21:41:26 < Mangy_Dog> its just called openocd
2021-08-07T21:41:31 < Steffanx> or is this sloeber again?
2021-08-07T21:41:36 < Mangy_Dog> actually
2021-08-07T21:41:37 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-08-07T21:41:41 < Mangy_Dog> not from sloeber
2021-08-07T21:42:06 < Mangy_Dog> it might have even been built by the guy who helped me set it up
2021-08-07T21:42:08 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt build it
2021-08-07T21:42:25 < Mangy_Dog> i still dont know how to build stuff like this for windows :/
2021-08-07T21:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> (or linux)
2021-08-07T21:42:45 < Mangy_Dog> even my embedded stuff all teh makefile and compiling stuff is taken care of for me
2021-08-07T21:42:52 < Mangy_Dog> ie through the arduino like tools
2021-08-07T21:43:01 < Mangy_Dog> something.... I REALLY NEED TO LEARN TO DO MY SELF
2021-08-07T21:44:46 < kraiskil> it would make programming less of a pain ;)
2021-08-07T21:44:57 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2021-08-07T21:45:09 < Mangy_Dog> or just something else for me to get wrong and break
2021-08-07T21:46:29 < kraiskil> That's the problem with IDEs IMHO. They give you everything (including problems) up front. Whereas compiling from source, feeds you the problems piecemeal
2021-08-07T21:47:38 < PaulFertser> In this particular case I can't blame IDE, it's really GDB underreporting most probably.
2021-08-07T21:48:06 < PaulFertser> It might be OpenOCD's fault but I would need to see its -d3 output for this case to say for sure.
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2021-08-07T21:52:59 < kraiskil> I dunno. It didn't get a clue until I saw gdb failing just after loading .text - on the command line. Was that visible in Eclipse?
2021-08-07T21:53:32 < kraiskil> But yeah, more verbosity would be nice.
2021-08-07T21:54:59 < PaulFertser> "Load failed" is visible here: https://i.imgur.com/zY7flkQ.png
2021-08-07T22:01:10 < PaulFertser> Sent http://openocd.zylin.com/6416 to fix units. I can take a look at the issue of insufficient flash size when trying to "load" from GDB too if someone shows me -d3 log for this case.
2021-08-07T22:01:37 < Steffanx> btw Mangy_Dog, in your console, dont you have this little thingy?
2021-08-07T22:01:57 < Steffanx> https://i.imgur.com/Pl5k0QG.png
2021-08-07T22:02:42 < Steffanx> one of them is something something gdb traces, with all the commands and errors.
2021-08-07T22:06:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: isn't that the lower pane here: https://i.imgur.com/WuyKmzx.png ?
2021-08-07T22:07:11 < kraiskil> PaulFertser, precisely what I meant :) The GUI gets in the way of itself, and the full gdb log is hidden
2021-08-07T22:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx i dont know
2021-08-07T22:07:53 < kraiskil> Also, Mangy_Dog how did you flash in the new binary when openocd was failing?
2021-08-07T22:08:09 < Mangy_Dog> sloeber has a program and upload button
2021-08-07T22:08:11 < Mangy_Dog> much like arduino
2021-08-07T22:08:42 < kraiskil> you mean a HW button?
2021-08-07T22:09:00 < Mangy_Dog> upload sketch 
2021-08-07T22:09:02 < Mangy_Dog> it calls it
2021-08-07T22:09:21 < kraiskil> you mean a button in the GUI then?
2021-08-07T22:09:23 < Steffanx> Yes and no PaulFertser. Part of it is missing in the screenshot
2021-08-07T22:09:26 < Mangy_Dog> it runs the same build and stlink upload commands as roger clarks building tools does
2021-08-07T22:09:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: right, that's odd.
2021-08-07T22:09:45 < kraiskil> oh, so not openocd :D
2021-08-07T22:10:04 < Steffanx> maybe not odd, i think Mangy_Dog didnt screenshot the entier window
2021-08-07T22:10:10 < Mangy_Dog> im cooking so mostl afk
2021-08-07T22:10:22  * kraiskil has never head of sloerber or roger clark's building tools 
2021-08-07T22:10:31 < Steffanx> you dont want to know kraiskil
2021-08-07T22:10:33 < Mangy_Dog> tbh steffanx the ui layout is a big screwed at the mo needs resetting
2021-08-07T22:10:36 < kraiskil> :p
2021-08-07T22:10:46 < kraiskil> how can I resist googling it now??
2021-08-07T22:10:47 < Mangy_Dog> bit
2021-08-07T22:10:51 < Steffanx> its arduino related.
2021-08-07T22:10:58 < Mangy_Dog> ^^^^^^^^
2021-08-07T22:11:05 < Steffanx> ^ enough to resist it now kraiskil?
2021-08-07T22:11:13 < kraiskil> I like the arduino *HW*
2021-08-07T22:11:15 < Mangy_Dog> its both a blessing and a curse
2021-08-07T22:11:20 < Mangy_Dog> blessing got me into stm32
2021-08-07T22:11:26 < Mangy_Dog> curse its arduino and got me stuck on f103
2021-08-07T22:11:42  * kraiskil caves in
2021-08-07T22:12:24 < kraiskil> Well, its a belgian beer
2021-08-07T22:12:28 < kraiskil> so it can't be all bad
2021-08-07T22:13:46 < Mangy_Dog> sloeber plugin is a plugin and build of eclipse for arudino dev
2021-08-07T22:13:52 < Mangy_Dog> its far from perfect
2021-08-07T22:14:04 < Mangy_Dog> but means i had a better ide than arduino ide to work in :p
2021-08-07T22:14:14 < Mangy_Dog> i keep saying i want to move away from arduino like stuff
2021-08-07T22:14:21 < Mangy_Dog> to "professional" stuff
2021-08-07T22:14:25 < Mangy_Dog> or what ever it is
2021-08-07T22:14:26 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2021-08-07T22:14:43 < kraiskil> "vim" ;)
2021-08-07T22:15:16 < kraiskil> though, arduino is very much used in the industry
2021-08-07T22:15:50 < kraiskil> when you need a throw-away gpio toggling thingy, arduino a very fast way to get it done
2021-08-07T22:27:59 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2021-08-07T22:40:23 < kraiskil> though I still prefer the command-line arduino-mk makefile package for my arduino projects :)
2021-08-07T22:43:15 < Mangy_Dog> well
2021-08-07T22:43:24 < Mangy_Dog> i have discovered one issue with my scolling text code
2021-08-07T22:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> the number digits are in a back to front order :D
2021-08-07T22:51:23 < kraiskil> was this because of the debugger :p
2021-08-07T22:51:50 < Steffanx> it was eclipse .. duh
2021-08-07T22:52:44 < kraiskil> :p
2021-08-07T22:53:32 < mouseghost> pf
2021-08-07T22:53:38 < mouseghost> Steffanx, solar?
2021-08-07T22:53:47 < Steffanx> no, Eclipse.
2021-08-07T23:00:07 < mouseghost> solar eclipse?
2021-08-07T23:00:14 < mouseghost> brain fog?
2021-08-07T23:22:00 < kakium69> ventyl: new spark plugs it pulls like crazy now and starts without choke
2021-08-07T23:22:10 < kakium69> 100% smooth idle
2021-08-07T23:22:29 < kakium69> *IRIDIUM spark plugs
2021-08-07T23:22:43 < mouseghost> you sure it doesnt choke on 69 kakium69
2021-08-07T23:23:08 < kakium69> yes I always drive 69
2021-08-07T23:23:22 < kakium69> it doesn't choke
2021-08-07T23:23:47 < PaulFertser> kakium69: was there anything wrong with the old plugs that one can visually detect?
2021-08-07T23:24:38 < kakium69> one had carbon pieces
2021-08-07T23:24:55 < kakium69> but those could be blown away so it was not permanently so
2021-08-07T23:28:17 < PaulFertser> Sucks when you can only diagnose by swapping different parts :/
2021-08-07T23:32:25 < kakium69> I believe it's the IRIDIUM magic
2021-08-07T23:32:37 < kakium69> twice the price must mean something
2021-08-07T23:34:36 < PaulFertser> Are you serious now?
2021-08-07T23:36:28 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-07T23:37:38 < kakium69> I read a forum post where somebody told IRIDIUM has better arc and smaller electrode means better
2021-08-07T23:38:07 < kakium69> and 4x service interval
2021-08-07T23:38:24 < PaulFertser> 4x service interval I can believe. Other claims only if you compare to worn out regular plugs.
2021-08-07T23:38:41 < PaulFertser> You mention choke, does it mean you have carbs?
2021-08-07T23:38:46 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-07T23:38:53 < kakium69> 2003 with carbs
2021-08-07T23:39:19 < kakium69> basically if I buy parts I need to select 2002 model
2021-08-07T23:40:20 < PaulFertser> For me starting with or without choke depends on air temperature a lot, and whether I ride every day or skip few days.
2021-08-07T23:40:58 < kakium69> it lits at once when I press start
2021-08-07T23:40:59 < PaulFertser> But when I guess it right, it starts literally with a single kick.
2021-08-07T23:41:28 < kakium69> without choke also without throttle
2021-08-07T23:42:16 < PaulFertser> I wonder if that doesn't mean your normal idle is too rich.
2021-08-07T23:44:25 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-07T23:46:18 < kakium69> the forum post also hyped the flow around electrode and said something about high cruise rpms and heat load
2021-08-07T23:47:45 < PaulFertser> Why would you use high rpm for cruising?
2021-08-07T23:47:55 < kakium69> because it is
2021-08-07T23:48:21 < kakium69> 6krpm for 100kmh
2021-08-07T23:48:22 < PaulFertser> (for my bike it's a necessity, it's about 8k on 5th when I go 90 km/h lol)
2021-08-07T23:49:05 < PaulFertser> 6k isn't high for an engine that revs up to 15k or so.
2021-08-07T23:49:08 < kakium69> my 125 had 13krpm redline
2021-08-07T23:49:14 < kakium69> 4stroke
2021-08-07T23:49:33 < kakium69> so I always had 10k at least
2021-08-07T23:54:42 < kakium69> fine wire spark plug requires 20% less voltage PaulFertser
2021-08-07T23:55:02 < kakium69> I think that it the biggest benefit
2021-08-07T23:55:20 < PaulFertser> kakium69: but if your coils are rated for regular spark plugs that means they have enough voltage.
2021-08-07T23:55:34 < kakium69> unless there is some detoriation
2021-08-07T23:55:37 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-08-07T23:56:10 < kakium69> luckily those coils are 125eur a pop
--- Day changed Sun Aug 08 2021
2021-08-08T00:00:52 < kakium69> it can be wire harness ground oxidation
2021-08-08T00:01:04 < kakium69> wire harness problem etc.
2021-08-08T00:01:19 < kakium69> but if there is 4 x 13,90eur solution
2021-08-08T00:01:42 < kakium69> heck I couldn't be bothered
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2021-08-08T00:24:52 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OqpYK6JevyONvzHwnR0aJzIJtTYlpAKj/view?usp=sharing idle and shitty pants
2021-08-08T00:25:39 < kakium69> LOUDNESS WARNING
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2021-08-08T01:12:07 < mouseghost> maybe you need diapers if you have shitty pants
2021-08-08T01:12:39 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-08T01:15:11 < kakium69> also for riding
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2021-08-08T01:24:41 < mouseghost> kakium69, dont need to stop on those nasty gas stations then
2021-08-08T01:25:47 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-08T01:26:53 < kakium69> it's for casuals
2021-08-08T01:27:03 < mouseghost> stopping? yeah
2021-08-08T01:27:11 < kakium69> that reminds me
2021-08-08T01:27:50 < mouseghost> of?
2021-08-08T01:28:16 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9SgI39Lbnc
2021-08-08T01:28:25 < kakium69> video ol as jesus
2021-08-08T01:28:48 < kakium69> advert
2021-08-08T01:29:35 < mouseghost> weh
2021-08-08T01:30:50 < kakium69> see that MPEG-1 compression in that video?
2021-08-08T01:30:52 < kakium69> it's that old
2021-08-08T01:32:38 < kakium69> idk if mpeg1 has any distinctive artifact or if it's just low bitrate, resolution and parameters
2021-08-08T01:32:53 < mouseghost> old style really
2021-08-08T01:33:51 < mouseghost> kakium69, so are we rating diapers now
2021-08-08T01:34:15 < kakium69> yeah
2021-08-08T01:34:19 < kakium69> but no
2021-08-08T01:34:55 < kakium69> I need to take a whizz though>
2021-08-08T01:35:54 < kakium69> you know what one irc dude says every time I say that?
2021-08-08T01:36:32 < kakium69> "don't be silly. you have pants don't you?"
2021-08-08T01:40:05 < mouseghost> kakium69, whats whizz
2021-08-08T01:40:17 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-08T01:40:20 < kakium69> sound of pee
2021-08-08T01:40:36 < mouseghost> so did you take it
2021-08-08T01:40:46 < kakium69> not yet
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2021-08-08T01:44:15 < kakium69> now
2021-08-08T01:44:21 < kakium69> it's done
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2021-08-08T02:17:59 < Steffanx> Does he say you're weird too, kakium69?
2021-08-08T02:18:18 < kakium69> actually yes
2021-08-08T02:18:30 < kakium69> and he is finnish
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2021-08-08T02:51:15 < upgrdman> the ftdi ft601 is an easy way to transfer ~3.2Gbps via usb3.0 ... anyone know of a similar device but faster (usb3.1 or thunderbolt) ?
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2021-08-08T11:45:59 < ventyl> kakium69: if carb bike starts without choke cold, then it is way too rich on jets
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2021-08-08T14:16:57 < Steffanx> Hows your Eclipse doing today  Mangy_Dog  ?
2021-08-08T14:19:39 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2021-08-08T14:19:45 < Mangy_Dog> well it didnt explode yet
2021-08-08T14:25:53 < Steffanx> Ok, just checking 
2021-08-08T14:27:40 < kakium69> ventyl: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PJPHLXZdZEMqSZPhOIPIeDvpWATnVCrt/view?usp=sharing but if choke increases revs then no
2021-08-08T14:34:08 < kakium69> it was a bit more hesitant to start today without choke
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2021-08-08T20:05:21 < kakium69> https://therecord.media/dell-patches-12-year-old-driver-vulnerability-impacting-millions-of-pcs/
2021-08-08T20:06:40 < kakium69> nice to know your pc vendor delivers bios drivers that can escalate your codes to kernel-level
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2021-08-08T20:07:20 < kakium69> Looked that up when Dell update gave me DBUtil removal utility
2021-08-08T20:08:01 < kakium69> sounds like anti-malware "removal utility"
2021-08-08T20:09:11 < kakium69> * anti-malware = "removal utility"
2021-08-08T20:11:02 < mouseghost> does it remove dbutil
2021-08-08T20:11:02 < mouseghost> or
2021-08-08T20:11:42 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-08T20:11:59 < kakium69> dell bios utility / dell bios driver
2021-08-08T20:12:15 < kakium69> maybe replaces it with fixed one
2021-08-08T20:14:13 < kakium69> you didn't stay for my whizz situation update last night mouseghost
2021-08-08T20:14:23 < mouseghost> kakium69, did you pee your pants?
2021-08-08T20:15:24 < kakium69> after you left I implied I may have or may not have then I realized you left
2021-08-08T20:15:42 < kakium69> it was in vain
2021-08-08T20:16:33 < kakium69> where are you from mouseghost?
2021-08-08T20:17:02 < mouseghost> kakium69, pl
2021-08-08T20:17:12 < kakium69> nice
2021-08-08T20:19:21 < kakium69> my friends told that best part of motorcycling trip to germany was riding through poland
2021-08-08T20:20:08 < kakium69> cheap beer and accomodation and nice villages and nice people
2021-08-08T20:22:42 < mouseghost> fuck at least not "cheap women" lol
2021-08-08T20:22:48 < mouseghost> kakium69, was he from russia or something
2021-08-08T20:22:53 < mouseghost> were they
2021-08-08T20:23:14 < kakium69> no
2021-08-08T20:23:42 < kakium69> just finns
2021-08-08T20:29:17 < kakium69> they stayed in some sort of guesthouses. didn't speak common language with host etc. sound like an adventure
2021-08-08T20:29:44 < mouseghost> nice
2021-08-08T20:30:24 < mouseghost> my uncle went on an hitchhiking trip to norway or finland like that
2021-08-08T20:30:57 < kakium69> I just realized
2021-08-08T20:31:18 < kakium69> covid killed hitchhiking
2021-08-08T20:31:32 < mouseghost> oh idk i think it was very dangerous before anywyas
2021-08-08T20:31:35 < kakium69> I have not seen anyone hitchhiking for like 2 years
2021-08-08T20:32:11 < mouseghost> true..
2021-08-08T20:32:45 < kakium69> usually there was some sort of hippie festivals etc. that flooded hitchhikers to surrounding highways etc.
2021-08-08T20:34:15 < kakium69> sometimes there was propper trekkers hitchhiking in middle of nowhere at night at rain with enought gear to stay 1week in forrest
2021-08-08T20:34:24 < mouseghost> tbh i never was on any festival and stopping on a highway here is illegal
2021-08-08T20:34:50 < kakium69> yes but hippies don't know that
2021-08-08T20:35:08 < mouseghost> too much weed
2021-08-08T20:36:03 < kakium69> no drivers licence
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2021-08-08T22:01:18 < Laurenceb> supppp trolls
2021-08-08T22:02:07 < kakium69> sup Lorence
2021-08-08T22:03:02 < Laurenceb> does anyone know if eMMC has brownout detection built in?
2021-08-08T22:03:49 < kakium69> what would such detection do?
2021-08-08T22:08:31 < ventyl> kakium69: R U sure about it?
2021-08-08T22:08:46 < kakium69> no
2021-08-08T22:09:54 < Laurenceb> kakium69: flush internal buffers
2021-08-08T22:10:17 < PaulFertser> kakium69: btw, do you ride much in rain? How do you keep your feet warm and dry?
2021-08-08T22:10:41 < ventyl> my old and shitty bike clocked 50000km today
2021-08-08T22:10:48 < kakium69> I do and I don't PaulFertser
2021-08-08T22:11:19 < PaulFertser> Congrats ventyl 
2021-08-08T22:12:01 < kakium69> my shoes are full of water if I ride in heavy rain PaulFertser
2021-08-08T22:12:33 < PaulFertser> kakium69: is it ok if you have to do that for few hours? And what if you e.g. go to work and then you arrive there full of water?
2021-08-08T22:12:49 < kakium69> don't go to works like that
2021-08-08T22:13:12 < kakium69> there are things for feet
2021-08-08T22:13:16 < kakium69> kind of bags
2021-08-08T22:13:25 < ventyl> PaulFertser: if you ride in rain for hours, you will get wet no matter what
2021-08-08T22:13:28 < ventyl> sooner or later
2021-08-08T22:13:46 < ventyl> if you have to ride for hours to commute to work, then you are doing something wrong
2021-08-08T22:13:54 < kakium69> indeed
2021-08-08T22:14:02 < PaulFertser> ventyl: well, my regular commute would be an hour one way.
2021-08-08T22:14:08 < PaulFertser> 30 km through city
2021-08-08T22:14:22 < kakium69> so quite slow pace
2021-08-08T22:14:54 < kakium69> you cannot use relative speed to change rain direction
2021-08-08T22:14:58 < PaulFertser> Traffic
2021-08-08T22:15:07 < kakium69> from vertical to horizontal
2021-08-08T22:15:38 < ventyl> there's one thing worse than riding in rain
2021-08-08T22:15:57 < ventyl> PaulFertser: moscow?
2021-08-08T22:16:42 < PaulFertser> ventyl: yep
2021-08-08T22:17:22 < ventyl> I'd assume that for cities over some size public transportation is way the best way of transportation. doesn't that work in moscow too?
2021-08-08T22:19:14 < PaulFertser> ventyl: depends on the route, unfortunately, and local conditions. E.g. I usually plan for up to 30 minutes to get 5 km on a bus from home to the nearest metro station, it rarely takes less than 15 minutes.
2021-08-08T22:21:57 < ventyl> kakium69: btw, yes, it makes does 60km/h on 1st gear until rev limiter kills ignitiono
2021-08-08T22:22:18 < kakium69> math works
2021-08-08T22:24:37 < ventyl> well, you also have to remember what chain kit did you put in
2021-08-08T22:24:47 < ventyl> btw, how many kms you do on aftermarket chain kits?
2021-08-08T22:25:47 < kakium69> idk
2021-08-08T22:26:12 < kakium69> until chain whips a leg off
2021-08-08T22:26:49 < kakium69> then pulls secondary drive axle out of block
2021-08-08T22:32:25 < ventyl> rapid unscheduled disassembly
2021-08-08T22:33:40 < kakium69> both things do happen
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2021-08-08T22:44:33 < ventyl> I only disassemble bikes by hitting different object on them
2021-08-08T22:44:40 < ventyl> still not very effective
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2021-08-08T23:44:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.embeddedarm.com/assets/preventing-filesystem-corruption-in-embedded-linux
2021-08-08T23:44:12 < Laurenceb> interesting if true
2021-08-08T23:44:19 < Laurenceb> write reliability mode looks useful
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2021-08-08T23:52:43 < Laurenceb> should fseek work on a block device under lunix?
2021-08-08T23:52:49 < Laurenceb> like /dev/sda2  ?
2021-08-08T23:53:00 < Laurenceb> I'm guessing it will round to the nearest sector?
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2021-08-09T01:07:13 < ventyl> Laurenceb_: access to block device isn't limited to sector-aligned block sizes, maybe except of O_DIRECT flag
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2021-08-09T01:20:04 < zyp> I'd expect you can seek to whatever byte and the OS will just read the whole sector and discard the part before where you started reading
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2021-08-09T02:24:01 < fenugrec> any ZFS / bind mount pros here ? wondering how I can force some bind mounts to happen after a certain ZFS pool becomes available
2021-08-09T02:30:05 < fenugrec> nm
2021-08-09T02:30:43 < BrainDamage> noauto,x-systemd.automount,
2021-08-09T02:31:49 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, thanks. I found x-systemd.requires=zfs-mount.service to explicitly depend on zfs
2021-08-09T02:32:30 < BrainDamage> you can pass a filesystem path iirc for even specific dirs
2021-08-09T02:32:38 < BrainDamage> but it needs to be escaped weirdly
2021-08-09T02:32:52 < BrainDamage> use systemd-escape for that
2021-08-09T02:33:03 < BrainDamage> you can see the mount paths also in systemctl's report
2021-08-09T02:33:43 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, you mean, to specify a certain zfs pool to depend on ? won't be a problem, this is a babby server with only 1 zfs mount
2021-08-09T02:34:09 < BrainDamage> as solution for the general problem
2021-08-09T02:34:22 < BrainDamage> passing a fs path works errywhere, not just for zfs
2021-08-09T02:34:33 < BrainDamage> it's useful for remote fs, etc etc
2021-08-09T02:36:16 < fenugrec> oh, e.g. x-systemd.requires=/mnt/garbage/misc ?
2021-08-09T02:37:32 < BrainDamage> x-systemd.requires=mnt-garbage-misc.mount
2021-08-09T02:37:55 < fenugrec> ah yes, with mount-style escaping
2021-08-09T02:38:04 < fenugrec> systemd-escaping I mean
2021-08-09T02:39:06 < BrainDamage> it works inside units, timers, etc too
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2021-08-09T12:19:37 < qyx> hello pros
2021-08-09T12:19:51 < qyx> I hope you had a great start of the work week
2021-08-09T12:21:20 < srk> yeah, pretty much done for the day
2021-08-09T12:58:43 < jpa-> why spikes in proto 3, no spikes in proto 2.5 :|
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2021-08-09T22:26:35 < kakium69> Stef69
2021-08-09T22:26:49 < kakium69> good evenings
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2021-08-09T22:49:39 < Steffanx> Gooday kakium69 
2021-08-09T22:49:46 < kakium69> morgon
2021-08-09T22:50:08 < mouseghost> hi
2021-08-09T22:51:24 < kakium69> hello
2021-08-09T22:56:59 < mawk> is tct_ dead
2021-08-09T22:57:48 < kakium69> statistically it's a posibility
2021-08-09T22:58:15 < mawk> :(
2021-08-09T22:59:31 < kakium69> I remember one school teacher sometimes had "deep talks" to class
2021-08-09T22:59:32 < PaulFertser> Do you touch asphalt with your knee slider often kakium69 ?
2021-08-09T22:59:47 < kakium69> knee what?
2021-08-09T23:00:40 < kakium69> kneecap?
2021-08-09T23:00:52 < kakium69> no
2021-08-09T23:00:57 < PaulFertser> Kneecap would be a part of your body. I mean the part of your pants.
2021-08-09T23:01:11 < kakium69> no
2021-08-09T23:01:22 < kakium69> I buy 1 pants a year or so
2021-08-09T23:01:34 < kakium69> rather keep them intact
2021-08-09T23:01:47 < mawk> what kind of deep talk kakium69 ?¿
2021-08-09T23:02:44 < PaulFertser> kakium69: it's replaceable, you're not supposed to ruin the pants: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=knee%20slider%20motorcycle&tbs=imgo:1
2021-08-09T23:03:46 < kakium69> so teacher talked us statistically projecting death age and cause statistics to our class demography
2021-08-09T23:03:59 < PaulFertser> I bet the teacher was "teaching life" by preaching some shallow bullshit.
2021-08-09T23:04:32 < kakium69> he was teaching life
2021-08-09T23:06:09 < kakium69> for immortal teenagers with no to little grip of reality of adults
2021-08-09T23:09:20 < PaulFertser> kakium69: so how deep do you really lean when cornering?
2021-08-09T23:09:48 < kakium69> idk did pretty deep leans today
2021-08-09T23:10:02 < kakium69> adjusted wheel pressures it made bike feel confident
2021-08-09T23:10:05 < PaulFertser> I think you can install a smartphone app to log that.
2021-08-09T23:10:35 < kakium69> usually you can lean more than you think
2021-08-09T23:10:35 < PaulFertser> If you fix it to tank or something.
2021-08-09T23:10:53 < kakium69> unless you ride like a psycho all the time
2021-08-09T23:11:17 < kakium69> then there is still margin left after it starts feel scary
2021-08-09T23:14:16 < kakium69> did you know engine revs go up when you lean deep into turn?
2021-08-09T23:14:37 < PaulFertser> I have an impression statistical data rarely impresses adults too. When something happens to somebody you personally know that has a much larger impact even when it's in general not quite likely. 
2021-08-09T23:14:49 < PaulFertser> kakium69: no, why?
2021-08-09T23:15:07 < kakium69> wheel radius
2021-08-09T23:15:19 < PaulFertser> Hah
2021-08-09T23:15:42 < kakium69> radius is bigger at the middle of wheel
2021-08-09T23:15:49 < PaulFertser> Same speed, smaller circumference needs higher revs indeed.
2021-08-09T23:16:05 < kakium69> than right next to wheel sidewall
2021-08-09T23:16:32 < kakium69> just some motogp trivia I picked up from youtubes
2021-08-09T23:17:06 < kakium69> they upshift when leaning into corners
2021-08-09T23:17:14 < PaulFertser> Are motogp riders ever corner with constant speed? I thought it's either braking or accelerating all the time.
2021-08-09T23:17:45 < kakium69> yeah
2021-08-09T23:17:49 < kakium69> but hear this
2021-08-09T23:18:05 < kakium69> then they leave the corner without changing the gear
2021-08-09T23:18:36 < kakium69> as the angle of bike is reduced they get more "gear ratio"
2021-08-09T23:18:57 < PaulFertser> Fancy
2021-08-09T23:20:10 < kakium69> they even can hang on one side of the bike to control the bike angle but that is more about having more grip when bike is upright but you are still turning
2021-08-09T23:20:42 < PaulFertser> I think they always hang on one side of the bike when turning.
2021-08-09T23:20:48 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-09T23:21:00 < kakium69> but when they are leaving the turn
2021-08-09T23:21:02 < kakium69> corner
2021-08-09T23:21:21 < kakium69> they streighten up the bike first while still cornering
2021-08-09T23:22:57 < kakium69> basically same reason why the rider stays in turn side as close to ground as possible while keeping bike more upright
2021-08-09T23:22:57 < PaulFertser> Cool. Do you ever go to track days to practice yourself?
2021-08-09T23:23:04 < kakium69> never
2021-08-09T23:23:25 < PaulFertser> Why not? Moneyz?
2021-08-09T23:23:33 < kakium69> moneyz
2021-08-09T23:23:36 < kakium69> timeys
2021-08-09T23:24:04 < kakium69> no tracks close by
2021-08-09T23:25:20 < PaulFertser> What about reasonably sized carting tracks?
2021-08-09T23:26:35 < kakium69> run off areas are pretty insufficient if you do other than casual ride practicing
2021-08-09T23:27:02 < kakium69> or idk
2021-08-09T23:27:15 < PaulFertser> kakium69: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=BJfzOroHETA example
2021-08-09T23:27:16 < kakium69> carting cars can be really fast
2021-08-09T23:27:54 < kakium69> nice sounds
2021-08-09T23:29:47 < kakium69> notice how he stays at one side of bike all the time
2021-08-09T23:29:59 < kakium69> keeping bike as upright as possible
2021-08-09T23:33:16 < kakium69> or prepairing for turn
2021-08-09T23:33:42 < kakium69> as there is no high speed part where he would need to duck for aero
2021-08-09T23:36:41 < PaulFertser> Yeah
2021-08-09T23:40:35 < kakium69> my bike is not in such condition that even if I learned to ride it at edge
2021-08-09T23:40:55 < kakium69> that is would reliably repeat those results
2021-08-09T23:41:54 < kakium69> those track bikes are meticulously maintained
2021-08-09T23:42:09 < kakium69> for every track day
2021-08-09T23:42:26 < kakium69> and during the day
2021-08-09T23:43:00 < kakium69> new set of slicks for every track day
2021-08-09T23:43:39 < kakium69> when they get home they atomize the bike
2021-08-09T23:44:27 < kakium69> check every bolt every tolerance
2021-08-09T23:45:31 < kakium69> of you can casually ride on track but it doesn't really work it's just a cruise on closed circuit
2021-08-09T23:46:01 < kakium69> ofc
2021-08-09T23:46:34 < PaulFertser> Closed and controlled so you know there's no sand inside the turn, no obstacles etc.
--- Day changed Tue Aug 10 2021
2021-08-10T00:12:25 < kakium69> I need direct shift gearbox
2021-08-10T00:12:46 < kakium69> right from 6th to 1st or 2nd
2021-08-10T00:16:53 < kakium69> they say you can downshift raw
2021-08-10T00:16:59 < kakium69> should I try this
2021-08-10T00:17:21 < mawk> aeaeae
2021-08-10T00:17:36 < mawk> I'm bored
2021-08-10T00:17:52 < mawk> do you know about signal processing BrainDamage ? like digital filters and such
2021-08-10T00:18:01 < mawk> I have a very important question
2021-08-10T00:18:30 < BrainDamage> you're faster asking the question without preamble
2021-08-10T00:18:31 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-08-10T00:18:48 < mawk> say I have a mystery filter I want to characterize, so I ran it on an unit impulse to get a nice graph
2021-08-10T00:18:51 < mawk> and now I want to det
2021-08-10T00:18:59 < qyx> 64 alternating bits of "may I" and "may I not"?
2021-08-10T00:18:59 < mawk> and now I want to determine things such as cutoff frequency and phase shift and so on
2021-08-10T00:19:21 < BrainDamage> the time response is literally the filter's coefficieents
2021-08-10T00:19:31 < BrainDamage> so just fft it
2021-08-10T00:19:37 < mawk> yes that's what I did
2021-08-10T00:19:46 < mawk> so that's the unit response: https://serveur.io/smoothing.png
2021-08-10T00:19:53 < mawk> and that's the absolute value of the fft: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_2021080909381613.png
2021-08-10T00:20:04 < mawk> so that's the right way to do it you agree?
2021-08-10T00:20:30 < mawk> but the issue is that when I look at the phase shift (which should be the complex argument of the fft, right?) the graph is crazy so I thought I did something wrong
2021-08-10T00:20:37 < BrainDamage> if you want an analythical solution, you can usee the z transform
2021-08-10T00:20:55 < BrainDamage> on the filter's coefficients
2021-08-10T00:20:59 < mawk> yes
2021-08-10T00:21:16 < mawk> but then from a z-transform to a frequency response we substitute z = exp(jω) right?
2021-08-10T00:21:16 < BrainDamage> why does it sound crazy?
2021-08-10T00:21:22 < mawk> and that's the same as doing a fft?
2021-08-10T00:21:44 < BrainDamage> a fft also discretizes the freq response
2021-08-10T00:21:54 < mawk> well the phase shift graph is basically filling up the whole screen with random points all over the place
2021-08-10T00:22:08 < BrainDamage> also, since a fft goes from n bins in time to n bins in freq, it's not exactly the same
2021-08-10T00:22:14 < mawk> ah
2021-08-10T00:22:15 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T00:22:25 < mawk> but then how do I get from the z-transform to a frequency response?
2021-08-10T00:22:39 < mawk> or, from a z-transform to a characterisation of the filter (eg cutoff frequency, phase shift)
2021-08-10T00:23:00 < BrainDamage> you're missing the sampling rat in your conveersion
2021-08-10T00:23:25 < mawk> what do you mean?
2021-08-10T00:23:28 < mawk> ah
2021-08-10T00:23:51 < mawk> yeah I didn't do any conversion yet, I just did the FFT
2021-08-10T00:24:13 < BrainDamage> because the Z transform deals with samples
2021-08-10T00:24:24 < BrainDamage> a frequency response deals with time / frequency
2021-08-10T00:24:35 < BrainDamage> the units don't match wihout the sampling rate
2021-08-10T00:24:35 < mawk> the phase shift: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210809232429045.png
2021-08-10T00:24:52 < mawk> ah
2021-08-10T00:24:54 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T00:25:27 < BrainDamage> the z transforms projects to a base where freq is normalized to 1
2021-08-10T00:25:44 < qyx> mawk: what was the cool octave/matlab alternative in python?
2021-08-10T00:25:45 < BrainDamage> that thing looks out of whack
2021-08-10T00:25:50 < mawk> qyx: sagemath
2021-08-10T00:25:53 < qyx> oh thx
2021-08-10T00:26:06 < BrainDamage> are you plotting it properly?
2021-08-10T00:26:15 < qyx> oh it looks like from 1990
2021-08-10T00:26:22 < mawk> it's pretty modern qyx 
2021-08-10T00:26:32 < mawk> BrainDamage: the graph I showed earlier was plotting abs(the fft), and for this graph I just replaced abs by angle
2021-08-10T00:26:37 < mawk> so I think yes
2021-08-10T00:26:37 < BrainDamage> remember that since the freq content is up to fck/2, many libs stuff the other info in thee other part of the spectrum
2021-08-10T00:26:51 < mawk> I used real fft
2021-08-10T00:27:31 < BrainDamage> real fft doesn't mean anything to me
2021-08-10T00:27:50 < mawk> it's regular fft but the negative frequency half is ommitted
2021-08-10T00:28:01 < mawk> since for real input the fft output is hermitian
2021-08-10T00:28:04 < BrainDamage> ok, unilateral
2021-08-10T00:28:23 < mawk> maybe my filter is just very stupid, that's a possibility
2021-08-10T00:28:39 < mawk> what I did is take each sample, and replace it by the average of its two neighbors
2021-08-10T00:28:46 < mawk> x[i] ← (x[i-1] + x[i+1])/2
2021-08-10T00:28:50 < mawk> then I repeated it n times
2021-08-10T00:29:07 < BrainDamage> that's a standard fir
2021-08-10T00:29:28 < BrainDamage> I think what you're seeing in your plot is linear phase
2021-08-10T00:29:36 < BrainDamage> as in, your filter has a constant delay
2021-08-10T00:29:41 < mawk> yes it's mod 2π so that's why it's discontinuous
2021-08-10T00:29:44 < mawk> ah
2021-08-10T00:30:03 < BrainDamage> and a constant delay in freq is a slope that increases with freq linearry
2021-08-10T00:30:12 < BrainDamage> and then yes, you have the mod 2pi rollover
2021-08-10T00:30:21 < mawk> hmm
2021-08-10T00:30:23 < BrainDamage> so yes, 2 samples delay, and linear phase
2021-08-10T00:30:26 < BrainDamage> looks rightt
2021-08-10T00:30:52 < mawk> I mean I repeated the averaging n times; like I do the average for all the samples, then I do it again, and again, n times
2021-08-10T00:30:54 < BrainDamage> minus the horrible plot of overloading 5 different n values
2021-08-10T00:30:58 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T00:30:59 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T00:32:58 < cluelessperson> Question
2021-08-10T00:33:16 < cluelessperson> how do I program the stm32 without having to make an account with some company online?
2021-08-10T00:33:19 < mawk> thanks BrainDamage , I'll try to understand this constant delay in freq thing
2021-08-10T00:33:32 < mawk> are you on linux cluelessperson ?
2021-08-10T00:33:38 < cluelessperson> yes.
2021-08-10T00:33:39 < mawk> what is your stm32? you have a nucleo board?
2021-08-10T00:33:57 < BrainDamage> mawk: one important thing of fft btw
2021-08-10T00:34:01 < mawk> if it's nucleo you can plug in to your computer, and drag'n'drop a file to program into the fake usb mass storage device that appears when you plug in the board
2021-08-10T00:34:04 < cluelessperson> I have this thing: https://www.seeedstudio.com/LoRa-E5-mini-STM32WLE5JC-p-4869.html
2021-08-10T00:34:11 < cluelessperson> that I intend to making into my own pcb later
2021-08-10T00:34:19 < BrainDamage> since a fft deals with finite samples in time, this is equivalent to multiplying your signal by a rect in time
2021-08-10T00:34:30 < BrainDamage> or convolve the signal with a sinc in freq
2021-08-10T00:34:43 < BrainDamage> hence the result is kinda wacky on its own
2021-08-10T00:34:47 < mawk> hmm
2021-08-10T00:34:57 < cluelessperson> (STM32WLE5JC)
2021-08-10T00:35:11 < mawk> but my time data is already going to 0 on its edges BrainDamage 
2021-08-10T00:35:17 < mawk> so multiplying by a rect is a no-op
2021-08-10T00:35:24 < BrainDamage> so to compensate it, you predistort your signal with another function, in order to reduce the effect
2021-08-10T00:35:39 < BrainDamage> which is called windowing
2021-08-10T00:35:47 < mawk> yes
2021-08-10T00:35:51 < BrainDamage> mawk: you're taking a finite sample count
2021-08-10T00:36:08 < BrainDamage> unless your pc can handle infinite zeros, it's still not the same thing
2021-08-10T00:36:33 < mawk> well the time signal goes to like 10^(-60) on its edges
2021-08-10T00:36:37 < mawk> it's like it's already windowed, no?
2021-08-10T00:36:38 < BrainDamage> also because the fft definition will make your signal act as if it was periodic
2021-08-10T00:36:45 < mawk> I tried to multiply with a blackmann window and it didn't change the result at least
2021-08-10T00:36:55 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T00:37:18 < BrainDamage> yes, but the operation doesn't come without costs
2021-08-10T00:37:28 < BrainDamage> for one, you get the phase of the sinc mixed in too
2021-08-10T00:37:38 < BrainDamage> as well as the amplitude distortion
2021-08-10T00:37:56 < BrainDamage> you can make it small, but it's still there
2021-08-10T00:37:59 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T00:38:08 < cluelessperson> I stand firmly against having to rely on shitty gui programs
2021-08-10T00:38:23 < mawk> why is it shitty cluelessperson ? have you tried it?
2021-08-10T00:38:33 < mawk> ST's programs mostly work
2021-08-10T00:38:41 < BrainDamage> cluelessperson: do you have a proper programmer/debugger?
2021-08-10T00:38:42 < mawk> and if you're beggining with stm32 you may want to use stm32cube
2021-08-10T00:38:46 < mawk> mx
2021-08-10T00:38:58 < mawk> I assume not, and they want to use UART programming
2021-08-10T00:39:02 < BrainDamage> as in hw device
2021-08-10T00:39:02 < cluelessperson> can stm32cubemx be used as a programmer?
2021-08-10T00:39:08 < mawk> cubemx is a code generator
2021-08-10T00:39:10 < BrainDamage> you can use openocd
2021-08-10T00:39:13 < cluelessperson> BrainDamage, I'm not familiar yet.
2021-08-10T00:39:20 < mawk> openocd works with uart bootloader?
2021-08-10T00:39:28 < PaulFertser> No, stm32flash does
2021-08-10T00:39:50 < PaulFertser> OpenOCD needs some SWD hardware, but can also bitbang SBC's GPIOs for that.
2021-08-10T00:40:22 < mawk> or even a pc parallel port
2021-08-10T00:40:26 < mawk> which is kinda cool
2021-08-10T00:40:37 < BrainDamage> cluelessperson: you have 2 paths, you either get a real debugger/flasher, which i wholeheartly recommend, or use the serial bootloader to flash it
2021-08-10T00:41:05 < PaulFertser> That chip is supported since c999fcef3e96fbdb5226b0913bddf29365566ce8
2021-08-10T00:41:18 < mawk> cluelessperson: if you had one account to create in your life on a "shitty gui website" I'd recommand to do it for ST programs: using stm32cubeMX you can generate all the tedious initialization code you need, and you can also use it to download the SDK/HAL for your board
2021-08-10T00:41:29 < PaulFertser> mawk: parport driver doesn't support SWD, only JTAG
2021-08-10T00:41:32 < mawk> or if you're really reluctant to do it, ask me and I download this for you
2021-08-10T00:41:36 < mawk> PaulFertser: ah :(
2021-08-10T00:42:27 < BrainDamage> cluelessperson:  the min setup is a serial port, a lib with the registers or the ref manual, and a compiler
2021-08-10T00:42:51 < PaulFertser> Or assembler ;)
2021-08-10T00:42:55 < mawk> or hex editor
2021-08-10T00:42:56 < mawk> you probably have a raspberry pi cluelessperson right? you can use it as a programmer/debugger like PaulFertser just said
2021-08-10T00:43:23 < BrainDamage> the less trivial version would need a hw debugger and a more serious lib
2021-08-10T00:43:51 < BrainDamage> stm32timecube can still be useful for stuff like pin planning
2021-08-10T00:44:10 < mawk> yes
2021-08-10T00:44:12 < mawk> and clock
2021-08-10T00:44:26 < BrainDamage> ah yes, the clock tree planning is also painful
2021-08-10T00:44:28 < mawk> it even has clock solver to find out automatically how to do the frequencies you require in the pll
2021-08-10T00:45:06 < BrainDamage> except for timecube, no program requires gui, and timecube is optional
2021-08-10T00:45:21 < BrainDamage> and you can just run it a couple of times per project
2021-08-10T00:45:32 < mawk> the website directed them to use "stm32cube programmer" to program I think, that's the GUI mentioned
2021-08-10T00:45:37 < mawk> but stm32flash from CLI works as well
2021-08-10T00:46:38 < cluelessperson> I have this board: https://www.seeedstudio.com/LoRa-E5-mini-STM32WLE5JC-p-4869.html
2021-08-10T00:46:49 < cluelessperson> pretty sure it has a usb thing built in
2021-08-10T00:47:13 < mawk> yes it's the same thing as UART bootloader
2021-08-10T00:47:19 < mawk> replace UART by USB in what we said
2021-08-10T00:47:34 < BrainDamage> you need to put it in dfu mode and you can just replace the words
2021-08-10T00:47:51 < cluelessperson> "replace the words"
2021-08-10T00:47:59 < mawk> replace UART by USB
2021-08-10T00:48:15 < cluelessperson> ah
2021-08-10T00:48:27 < mawk> try either the GUI program they recommand, or stm32flash
2021-08-10T00:48:47 < BrainDamage> but really, you should invest in a real programmer
2021-08-10T00:48:50 < mawk> or another
2021-08-10T00:48:52 < BrainDamage> a stlink clone is few bucks
2021-08-10T00:49:13 < mawk> a jlink edu is like $15
2021-08-10T00:49:17 < mawk> min
2021-08-10T00:49:18 < mawk> i
2021-08-10T00:49:47 < mawk> it doesn't do VCP but it does everything a full jlink does
2021-08-10T00:51:58 < mawk> https://www.newark.com/segger/8-08-91-j-link-edu-mini/j-link-edu-mini-rohs-compliant/dp/78AC8471
2021-08-10T00:52:47 < qyx> real stlink is 15e too
2021-08-10T00:52:51 < qyx> v3 mini
2021-08-10T00:53:14 < mawk> yeah but it's locked down right?
2021-08-10T00:53:24 < mawk> or is it supported to flash other cores now?
2021-08-10T00:53:36 < qyx> who cares for 15e
2021-08-10T00:53:47 < PaulFertser> v3 not recommended as it's locked to not support any non-ST parts.
2021-08-10T00:53:53 < mawk> well since it's the same price you might as well take the one that supports everything
2021-08-10T00:53:58 < kakium69> jlink edu no complaints
2021-08-10T00:54:05 < kakium69> jlink any day
2021-08-10T00:54:11 < kakium69> all other is trash
2021-08-10T00:54:13 < cluelessperson> BrainDamage, I'm trying to figure out how to get this thing to work at all
2021-08-10T00:54:20 < PaulFertser> There's a way to reflash v3 but so far nobody found a way to patch the firmware to remove the locking shit.
2021-08-10T00:54:31 < mawk> what have you tried yet cluelessperson ?
2021-08-10T00:54:34 < cluelessperson> and preferably in a fashion that I can automate
2021-08-10T00:54:44 < cluelessperson> I don't have the software because their site wants me to sign up first
2021-08-10T00:54:45 < mawk> have you downloaded the program we recommended?
2021-08-10T00:54:47 < PaulFertser> cluelessperson: what's wrong with usign stm32flash?
2021-08-10T00:54:50 < mawk> https://sourceforge.net/p/stm32flash/wiki/Home/
2021-08-10T00:55:06 < PaulFertser> Should be available in distro repos too.
2021-08-10T00:55:35 < cluelessperson> ooh neat
2021-08-10T00:55:39 < mawk> I'd suggest putting aside your convictions for a few minutes in order to download the useful software from ST website
2021-08-10T00:55:41 < mawk> but you do what you want
2021-08-10T00:55:52 < PaulFertser> Fuck ST and their stupid rules
2021-08-10T00:56:06 < kakium69> jlink
2021-08-10T00:56:17 < kakium69> get one
2021-08-10T00:56:41 < kakium69> PaulFertser: have you seen any rad leather jackets?
2021-08-10T00:56:50 < mawk> who says rad in 2021 except kakium69 
2021-08-10T00:56:58 < cluelessperson> I just want this thing to work
2021-08-10T00:57:18 < cluelessperson> preferably without strings attached like getting spam emails from some company
2021-08-10T00:57:23 < PaulFertser> kakium69: hm, no? I bought a textile jacket from Clover years ago, it still holds some rain nicely.
2021-08-10T00:57:42 < kakium69> I want good looking leather jacket
2021-08-10T00:57:50 < kakium69> that is not riding jacket
2021-08-10T00:57:55 < kakium69> but can be
2021-08-10T00:58:13 < PaulFertser> Shouldn't you be always riding in a riding jacket?
2021-08-10T00:59:44 < PaulFertser> I wouldn't be using anything leather just for the looks, that's for sure! I'm a vegeterian.
2021-08-10T01:00:25 < BrainDamage> cluelessperson: the next step is to look where the boot pin is mapped on your board
2021-08-10T01:00:53 < cluelessperson> BrainDamage, there's a button on the board that says "boot"
2021-08-10T01:00:56 < cluelessperson> I probably just press that
2021-08-10T01:01:06 < PaulFertser> And then apply power
2021-08-10T01:01:16 < BrainDamage> hold it and plug it in
2021-08-10T01:01:20 < mawk> you let it pressed, then plug in the cable
2021-08-10T01:01:21 < BrainDamage> see if you get a serial port
2021-08-10T01:03:12 < cluelessperson> yup, I get /dev/ttyUSB0
2021-08-10T01:03:14 < cluelessperson> easy enough
2021-08-10T01:04:05 < cluelessperson> if I receive any further emails from ST, I'm reporting them as unauthorized spam
2021-08-10T01:04:48 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T01:04:50 < mawk> just click "unsubscribe"
2021-08-10T01:04:58 < mawk> what are they doing different than the entirety of other companies?
2021-08-10T01:05:25 < mawk> BrainDamage: for the phase plot, what's the formula exactly? the graph shows something like arg(H) = aω right? and what does that mean for the time domain, what happens to sin(ωt) for instance, it gets mapped to |H|(ω) sin((ω+a)t) ?
2021-08-10T01:08:04 < cluelessperson> mawk, the fact that they thought it was okay to extort me for my email so they could advertise to me in the first place, and waste my time, shows to me their stance in ethics.
2021-08-10T01:08:22 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T01:08:25 < mawk> right
2021-08-10T01:08:36 < cluelessperson> I haven't gotten spam yet from them though
2021-08-10T01:08:41 < cluelessperson> we'll see.
2021-08-10T01:08:50 < mawk> so what are you talking about when you say they advertise to you?
2021-08-10T01:08:55 < mawk> and ethics and so on
2021-08-10T01:09:02 < mawk> that's prejudice
2021-08-10T01:09:14 < mawk> ST is a lovely company
2021-08-10T01:09:21 < cluelessperson> I'm asking why do I have to make an account with them to download this software?
2021-08-10T01:09:22 < mawk> they can only be lovely, since they're french
2021-08-10T01:09:29 < cluelessperson> Why isn't it just a download?
2021-08-10T01:09:36 < mawk> yeah it's not very convenient
2021-08-10T01:09:51 < cluelessperson> why do I need specialty software to flash software to a chip at all?
2021-08-10T01:10:03 < mawk> it's not specialty software, we gave you an open source alternative
2021-08-10T01:10:17 < cluelessperson> I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. :P
2021-08-10T01:10:22 < mawk> and also because you flash it through a specialty bootloader made by ST themselves
2021-08-10T01:10:40 < mawk> so it's normal that ST (and opensource hackers) provide the software to use it
2021-08-10T01:10:57 < mawk> but you don't have to use this bootloader, you can use industry-standard tools to flash it as well; but you need hardware for that
2021-08-10T01:13:18 < mawk> (a raspberry pi would work)
2021-08-10T01:15:00 < cluelessperson> mawk, also, to answer further questions about my concerns
2021-08-10T01:15:07 < cluelessperson> I don't like installing random shit on my computer
2021-08-10T01:15:17 < mawk> yeah in general that's a good thing
2021-08-10T01:15:26 < mawk> but in particular ST is a big established company
2021-08-10T01:15:31 < mawk> they make chips, not rootkit
2021-08-10T01:15:33 < cluelessperson> their software doesn't handle font of screen scaling correctly either, so on my 4k screen their software is hard to read
2021-08-10T01:15:44 < mawk> their program may be buggy, but it's not malware
2021-08-10T01:15:50 < mawk> it doesn't leave auto-updaters or stuff like this
2021-08-10T01:15:56 < cluelessperson> yet
2021-08-10T01:16:01 < mawk> why yet?
2021-08-10T01:16:15 < mawk> they just don't do it
2021-08-10T01:16:27 < mawk> you can't hold them responsible for something they might do in the future
2021-08-10T01:16:27 < cluelessperson> if it can just be a CLI application/menu, do that instead of having a gui.
2021-08-10T01:17:12 < mawk> well you have the opensource one if you want CLI
2021-08-10T01:17:23 < mawk> or get your raspberry pi and use SWD
2021-08-10T01:17:34 < mawk> by the way, do not play with "readout protection" in the flashing software cluelessperson 
2021-08-10T01:17:58 < mawk> otherwise you will wipe the AT command bootloader thing seeed studio put on that board and you can't put it back
2021-08-10T01:18:06 < mawk> because it's a proprietary binary blob or something
2021-08-10T01:18:06 < cluelessperson> "1. Factory AT Firmware is programmed with RDP(Read Protection) Level 1, developers need to remove RDP first with STM32Cube Programmer. Note that regression RDP to level 0 will cause a flash memory mass to erase and the Factory AT Firmware can't be restored again."
2021-08-10T01:18:11 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-10T01:18:20 < cluelessperson> yeah, so I'm wiping that out
2021-08-10T01:18:25 < cluelessperson> I don't want it
2021-08-10T01:18:27 < mawk> why?
2021-08-10T01:18:29 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T01:18:31 < steve_> You can build and flash a STM32 without downloading anything from ST's site.
2021-08-10T01:18:47 < mawk> do you know what it is cluelessperson ?
2021-08-10T01:19:22 < cluelessperson> their proprietary firmware that I'm not going to use or need that I'm not allowed to even read
2021-08-10T01:19:28 < cluelessperson> no thanks
2021-08-10T01:19:36 < cluelessperson> opensource is the way to go.
2021-08-10T01:19:39 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T01:19:41 < mawk> sure
2021-08-10T01:19:56 < mawk> but you might want to wait a bit, maybe you want to test it first and then wipe it, I don't know
2021-08-10T01:20:03 < mawk> you can't go back
2021-08-10T01:20:36 < cluelessperson> I have 2 more of these dev boards. :P
2021-08-10T01:20:42 < cluelessperson> I need to learn how to program it
2021-08-10T01:20:48 < cluelessperson> don't care about their nonsense
2021-08-10T01:21:22 < steve_> lol
2021-08-10T01:24:54 < mawk> before trying to program it you need to write software first cluelessperson 
2021-08-10T01:25:01 < mawk> now that you have a ST account, download STM32CubeMX
2021-08-10T01:25:13 < mawk> then set up a project for your chip, you can put Makefile as target
2021-08-10T01:25:16 < cluelessperson> have it
2021-08-10T01:25:19 < mawk> since you like opensource tools
2021-08-10T01:25:35 < mawk> you have choice between boards and bare chips at startup, you need to chose bare chip since your board isn't an official one
2021-08-10T01:26:21 < mawk> then if you have buttons or LEDs on your board, configure them accordingly with the right pins in cubeMX
2021-08-10T01:26:32 < mawk> then choose makefile project in the settings and click generate
2021-08-10T01:26:37 < mawk> and you have your code skeleton
2021-08-10T01:26:40 < mawk> and you can write C
2021-08-10T01:46:46 < mawk> if I do mod π on the phase graph I get a nice linear graph BrainDamage 
2021-08-10T01:46:51 < mawk> but I don't understand why I have to do mod π
2021-08-10T02:02:09 < Steffanx> i would  mod π/2 mawk
2021-08-10T02:02:29 < mawk> what
2021-08-10T02:03:33 < Steffanx> twee patat.
2021-08-10T02:04:24 < Steffanx> Time for the more important questions i life mawk. is it "pata"  or "friet" ?
2021-08-10T02:04:27 < Steffanx> *in
2021-08-10T02:04:33 < Steffanx> *patat
2021-08-10T02:04:40 < Steffanx> Damn it, typing is hard.
2021-08-10T02:06:15 < kakium69> are you talking about potatoes
2021-08-10T02:06:37 < Steffanx> Fries. yes
2021-08-10T02:10:50 < mawk> Steffanx: patat
2021-08-10T02:11:28 < kakium69> potaatti
2021-08-10T02:11:32 < kakium69> pottu
2021-08-10T02:11:32 < mawk> nooo
2021-08-10T02:11:47 < mawk> pataat
2021-08-10T02:11:50 < mawk> paataat
2021-08-10T02:12:26 < Steffanx> Ty mawk 
2021-08-10T02:13:02 < Steffanx> You are officially ingeburgerd now 
2021-08-10T02:13:13 < kakium69> potaatti
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2021-08-10T13:12:09 < englishman> in exchange for my email st has invited me to 3 seminars where i got about $600 of free hardware and a hat
2021-08-10T13:12:20 < englishman> lunch included
2021-08-10T13:13:39 < ventyl> in exchange for ST software I fed 10minutemail.com e-mail address in there
2021-08-10T13:13:45 < englishman> sounds like a fair trade for an inconsequential string of letters with an @ in the middle
2021-08-10T13:14:24 < englishman> $600 of hardware probably worth $1600 now
2021-08-10T13:14:33 < specing> WOw
2021-08-10T13:14:52 < englishman> rare and expensive chips like f072
2021-08-10T13:15:11 < specing> Hah. I have one of those framed
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2021-08-10T17:20:10 < bitmask> hi...
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2021-08-10T18:28:48 < mawk> hi... bitmask 
2021-08-10T18:30:07 < Steffanx> Lo... mawk 
2021-08-10T18:30:19 < mawk> :(
2021-08-10T18:30:38 < bitmask> :)
2021-08-10T18:30:50 < mawk> I found a free mathematical statistics textbook at a "minibieb" at TU delft Steffanx 
2021-08-10T18:30:54 < mawk> so I'm reading it
2021-08-10T18:30:58 < mawk> in 2 weeks I'm stats pro
2021-08-10T18:31:08 < mawk> or maybe 2 years
2021-08-10T18:31:11 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-182c2aa4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-10T18:31:11 < Steffanx> Will you R too?
2021-08-10T18:34:01 < mawk> no
2021-08-10T18:34:03 < mawk> python forever
2021-08-10T18:34:30 < bitmask> hmm, so why would my st link lose connection after uploading?
2021-08-10T18:34:47 < bitmask> i thought it was cause i didnt have the reset pin connected but just tried it with it and didnt work
2021-08-10T18:35:49 < qyx> after uploading? do you use low power modes? (stop 0 and lower)
2021-08-10T18:35:54 < qyx> do you disable SWD port?
2021-08-10T18:36:00 < qyx> or reconfigure as AF or whatever
2021-08-10T18:36:16 < bitmask> no to all i believe
2021-08-10T18:36:26 < bitmask> definitely the last
2021-08-10T18:36:54 < bitmask> Download verified successfully 
2021-08-10T18:36:54 < bitmask> Debugger connection lost.
2021-08-10T18:37:01 < bitmask> thats all it says
2021-08-10T18:37:08 < qyx> whats that, cube?
2021-08-10T18:37:13 < bitmask> yea
2021-08-10T18:37:16 < qyx> idk then
2021-08-10T18:37:18 < bitmask> using st link v3 mini
2021-08-10T18:57:45 < bitmask> got it workin
2021-08-10T18:57:47 < bitmask> woo
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2021-08-10T19:03:50 < ventyl> it sometimes happens
2021-08-10T19:04:05 < ventyl> like, stlink gets an idea: wtf did I just see, dude?
2021-08-10T19:08:52 < Steffanx> So what was it mr rob235?
2021-08-10T19:09:05 < bitmask> a reset setting was wrong
2021-08-10T19:10:11 < bitmask> now i gotta figure out why my spi line is flat
2021-08-10T19:12:11 < bitmask> i get a transfer complete interrupt over and over so it seems like it should be working
2021-08-10T19:12:47 < ventyl> which MCU?
2021-08-10T19:14:05 < bitmask> f030
2021-08-10T19:14:16 < bitmask> actually i think i found something, brb
2021-08-10T19:15:09 < ventyl> with H7 I haven't had luck transmitting if transmit length was set to infinite. SPI either clocked regardless of FIFO content, or stayed silent
2021-08-10T19:16:41 < bitmask> i have a length set
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2021-08-10T19:24:04 < Spirit532> I have an odd issue
2021-08-10T19:24:28 < bitmask> __HAL_LINKDMA(hspi, hdmatx, hdma_spi1_tx);
2021-08-10T19:24:30 < bitmask> thats right isnt it?
2021-08-10T19:25:22 < Spirit532> I can connect to an STM32F411CEU6 with STM32CubeProgrammer - I'm only using CLK/DIO/GND, no reset or 3.3 reference. I can read and erase the chip, twiddle option bits, no problem. But when I try to program it with STM32CubeIDE, I get "CM4 Failed to read all registers" and "FAILED to REGISTER Values from the target" after that.
2021-08-10T19:25:27 < Spirit532> Wtf is this?
2021-08-10T19:25:39 < Spirit532> Why does it work but also not work? I'm not swapping hardware with every button press...
2021-08-10T19:28:38 < qyx> do you use low power modes? (stop 0 and lower)
2021-08-10T19:29:13 < Spirit532> the chip is completely virgin, no fw
2021-08-10T19:29:38 < qyx> so what are you programming?
2021-08-10T19:29:40 < qyx> you said that
2021-08-10T19:29:59 < Spirit532> a brand new chip
2021-08-10T19:30:00 < Spirit532> trying to
2021-08-10T19:30:05 < Spirit532> and not succeeding 
2021-08-10T19:30:33 < qyx> so it fails before it actually programs anything?
2021-08-10T19:30:40 < Spirit532> yes, but only through cubeide
2021-08-10T19:30:47 < Spirit532> cubeprogrammer can open it up and write
2021-08-10T19:31:28 < karlp> cube ide might think it has a reset line or something
2021-08-10T19:32:25 < Spirit532> nope
2021-08-10T19:34:28 < Spirit532> flashed firmware just fine over cubeprogrammer
2021-08-10T19:34:33 < Spirit532> but cubeide still can't do anything
2021-08-10T19:35:10 < qyx> what karlp says is legit
2021-08-10T19:35:20 < Spirit532> I tried all 3 modes
2021-08-10T19:35:25 < Spirit532> none, under reset, software reset
2021-08-10T19:35:28 < Spirit532> that's all the options I get
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2021-08-10T20:01:56 < karlp> heh, my favourite local has just annouced happy hour prices all the time now for people who are vaxed.
2021-08-10T20:04:40 < qyx> here they are still deciding if it is "positive discrimination" or not
2021-08-10T20:05:34 < qyx> anyone encountered a precise (not necessarily MEMS) inclinometer sensor IC?
2021-08-10T20:05:54 < qyx> murata makes some but not much wow
2021-08-10T20:06:48 < jpa-> you may want to put numbers to your spec
2021-08-10T20:07:14 < jpa-> (and whether it is precision (resolution?), initial accuracy, noise or long-term stability that you want)
2021-08-10T20:07:32 < qyx> ~20 Hz BW, +- 5deg, around 0.001deg accuracy
2021-08-10T20:07:49 < qyx> the biggest problem is temperature dependency
2021-08-10T20:08:02 < qyx> ±0.005°/℃ for murata's one is too much
2021-08-10T20:08:39 < qyx> absolute accuracy is of no interest since it is going to be calibrated for zero after mounting
2021-08-10T20:08:46 < jpa-> put it in oven :)
2021-08-10T20:11:13 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/en/mems-and-sensors/iis2iclx.html  looks to have pretty much same stability but with Embedded Machine Learning Core!
2021-08-10T20:11:42 < qyx> yeah considered that
2021-08-10T20:11:54 < qyx> but I tested iis3dhhc with similar specs and either I did something wrong
2021-08-10T20:11:58 < qyx> or it is not goot at all
2021-08-10T20:12:05 < qyx> I may git iis3dhhc another chance
2021-08-10T20:12:08 < qyx> *give
2021-08-10T20:12:34 < jpa-> isn't iis3dhhc 5x higher drift?
2021-08-10T20:12:49 < qyx> fuk fingers still typing git git git, then I make typos like goot, git
2021-08-10T20:13:05 < englishman> perseids tonight (tomorrow morning)
2021-08-10T20:13:15 < jpa-> goot sounds like norwegian
2021-08-10T20:13:47 < qyx> lets check iis2iclx again
2021-08-10T20:14:05 < qyx> I am curious if fusion of multiple sensors actually helps
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2021-08-10T20:14:22 < qyx> and/or sensors mounted on both sides of the PCB
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2021-08-10T20:17:54 < qyx> uhm, iis2iclx is out of stock, surprise
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2021-08-10T20:24:32 < englishman> heh
2021-08-10T20:24:57 < jpa-> oh, esden is here also :)
2021-08-10T20:24:59 < englishman> im using iis2dlpc and got the last remaining reels
2021-08-10T20:29:43 < qyx> maybe the problem with my results was the PCB was mounted in an alu enclosure and it bent with temperature changes
2021-08-10T20:30:51 < qyx> I could try using some silicone adhesive to mount the pcb to minimise the effect
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2021-08-10T20:34:24 < jpa-> qyx: the emdrive bug :)
2021-08-10T20:35:45 < qyx> really? tell me about it
2021-08-10T20:35:56 < qyx> I should avoid any emdrive bugs
2021-08-10T20:54:32 < englishman> qyx: have you fucked with the "machine learning core" in that thing?
2021-08-10T20:57:02 < qyx> nope
2021-08-10T20:57:23 < qyx> I don't actually care, I only need X, Y angles
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2021-08-10T21:24:54 < mawk> machine learning is for losers englishman 
2021-08-10T21:24:57 < mawk> don't fall into the trap
2021-08-10T21:25:38 < englishman> i know a brogrammer here who could probably whip up some cool stuff with it
2021-08-10T21:25:46 < mawk> who
2021-08-10T21:25:52 < englishman> like if you tap it 3 times then spin around with it, it boots into DOOM instead of the app
2021-08-10T21:25:59 < mawk> lol
2021-08-10T21:27:07 < englishman> qyx: why'd you choose that one?
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2021-08-10T21:35:04 < qyx> englishman: low noise and super precision and 0.5g range
2021-08-10T21:35:17 < qyx> it has 15 ug/rtHz
2021-08-10T21:38:51 < englishman> huh neato
2021-08-10T21:40:01 < mawk> what is rt
2021-08-10T21:41:12 < englishman> i chose iis2dlpc for its low power, and sure enough, it uses the same power while reading at 50Hz as the iclx does in powerdown, lol
2021-08-10T21:42:17 < qyx> sqrt(Hz)
2021-08-10T21:42:29 < Steffanx> √
2021-08-10T21:42:45 < englishman> √
2021-08-10T21:43:07 < englishman> if you press penguin+. do you get an emoji/special character picker in lunix
2021-08-10T21:45:00 < Steffanx> Thanks, I have no penquin 
2021-08-10T21:51:49 < kakium69> why not have a penquin
2021-08-10T21:52:45 < Spirit532> Welp, I've progressed further
2021-08-10T21:52:54 < Spirit532> Added a hardware reset line, got cube to program/debug
2021-08-10T21:53:01 < Spirit532> except it now crashes at __HAL_RCC_PLL_ENABLE();
2021-08-10T21:53:09 < Spirit532> CM4 Failed to read fpu registers
2021-08-10T21:53:09 < Spirit532> FAILED to REGISTER Values from the target
2021-08-10T21:53:48 < Spirit532> I thought it was VCORE, so I replaced the 33nF + 10uF electrolytic with 33nF(much closer to the pin) with a 2uF low esr 1206 ceramic
2021-08-10T21:53:50 < englishman> i just assume every lunix user puts a penguin sticker over the windows key to win their own personal battle
2021-08-10T21:54:17 < Spirit532> why does it just _die_ when I try to enable PLL?
2021-08-10T21:54:20 < englishman> what are you working on?
2021-08-10T21:54:34 < Spirit532> STM32F411CEU6 + CubeMX dying at random fucking points
2021-08-10T21:54:38 < qyx> idk I use opensauce tools that mostly work
2021-08-10T21:55:08 < qyx> incl. F411CEU6
2021-08-10T21:55:09 < englishman> put a breakpoint in the hardfault handler
2021-08-10T21:55:11 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/4wX8K.png
2021-08-10T21:55:17 < Spirit532> here's my clocks
2021-08-10T21:55:33 < englishman> actually if your clocks are fucked it'll kill swd won't it
2021-08-10T21:55:47 < Spirit532> that's the issue
2021-08-10T21:56:07 < Spirit532> as soon as it hits __HAL_RCC_PLL_ENABLE(); the debugger just dies
2021-08-10T21:56:12 < qyx> what about trying without touching the pll
2021-08-10T21:56:26 < Spirit532> I mean I played with it
2021-08-10T21:56:32 < Spirit532> lowered clocks, increased divider
2021-08-10T21:56:42 < Spirit532> I thought it was something to do with instability but it reliably just dies there
2021-08-10T21:56:53 < englishman> it'll run fine at 16 MHz
2021-08-10T21:57:01 < Spirit532> going to bet it won't
2021-08-10T21:57:04 < Spirit532> setting to 16
2021-08-10T21:57:04 < englishman> ...
2021-08-10T21:57:15 < qyx> disable the pll
2021-08-10T21:57:29 < qyx> why does the thing even enables pll
2021-08-10T21:57:39 < qyx> you don't need 96 MHz to program the chip
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2021-08-10T21:58:25 < Spirit532> but I do need it for the actual operation
2021-08-10T21:58:26 < qyx> and I don't quite get why the *programmer* touches clock control
2021-08-10T21:58:31 < Spirit532> it doesn't
2021-08-10T21:58:33 < Spirit532> why would it?
2021-08-10T21:58:39 < Spirit532> this is AFTER programming, debugging it
2021-08-10T21:58:57 < qyx> it sounded like you progressed further in programming
2021-08-10T21:59:16 < Spirit532> yes, it programs fine now
2021-08-10T21:59:17 < qyx> and not like you successfully programmed the thing and it now fails in the firmware
2021-08-10T21:59:30 < Spirit532> I successfully programmed the thing and it fails in the firmware
2021-08-10T21:59:35 < Spirit532> how, I don't know
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2021-08-10T21:59:44 < qyx> in the PLL!
2021-08-10T21:59:46 < englishman> that's why you have a debugger
2021-08-10T22:00:02 < qyx> yeah a dead one
2021-08-10T22:00:06 < Spirit532> THAT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK
2021-08-10T22:00:10 < englishman> unless you are good enough to write code with no bugs
2021-08-10T22:00:15 < fury> printf() is my favorite debugger
2021-08-10T22:00:29 < Spirit532> I killed the PLL, running it at 16MHz directly from HSI, it runs fine
2021-08-10T22:00:37 < Spirit532> as soon as I enable PLL, it shits itself
2021-08-10T22:00:43 < englishman> the debugger works fine if it has a clock
2021-08-10T22:00:47 < fury> add a print statement, if it makes it work, ship it
2021-08-10T22:00:57 < qyx> so try to enable the PLL but don't set it as sysclk
2021-08-10T22:01:01 < qyx> to keep your debugger going
2021-08-10T22:01:04 < Steffanx> Flash wait states issues?
2021-08-10T22:01:14 < qyx> and check state with the debugger
2021-08-10T22:02:54 < Spirit532> it's not running from external flash
2021-08-10T22:03:07 < Spirit532> it's the bare chip, some peripherals connected but inactive
2021-08-10T22:04:27 < qyx> still applies
2021-08-10T22:04:52 < qyx> with > 26 MHz or so you need non-zero wait states to access the internal flash
2021-08-10T22:05:00 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Pjgy0.png
2021-08-10T22:05:08 < Spirit532> here's the schematic if there's something really stupid
2021-08-10T22:06:03 < qyx> wheres your vdda
2021-08-10T22:06:18 < Spirit532> package doesn't have it
2021-08-10T22:06:40 < Spirit532> I think
2021-08-10T22:06:41 < qyx> huh, it has vssa but no vdda?
2021-08-10T22:06:54 < qyx> probably it is pin9
2021-08-10T22:07:11 < qyx> nothing extraordinary stupid, missing the recommended cap from NRST to ground
2021-08-10T22:07:17 < qyx> and no analol part filtering
2021-08-10T22:07:21 < qyx> despite you are using ADC
2021-08-10T22:07:29 < qyx> so your results are going to be noisy
2021-08-10T22:07:44 < qyx> a bit
2021-08-10T22:09:09 < Spirit532> that doesn't matter yeah
2021-08-10T22:18:48 < Spirit532> yeah no idea what's causing this
2021-08-10T22:19:11 < Spirit532> just a bunch of "CM4 Failed to read all registers" and "FAILED to REGISTER Values from the target"
2021-08-10T22:22:18 < kakium69> how it's powered?
2021-08-10T22:22:43 < Spirit532> 3.35V from a DC-DC, with 10uF electrolytic
2021-08-10T22:23:08 < kakium69> what kind of DC-DC?
2021-08-10T22:23:14 < Spirit532> the cheap kind
2021-08-10T22:23:19 < Spirit532> but it can provide enough power lol
2021-08-10T22:23:40 < kakium69> you would think
2021-08-10T22:23:54 < kakium69> 10uf for sure can
2021-08-10T22:24:17 < kakium69> you have required bypass caps too?
2021-08-10T22:24:45 < Spirit532> see above
2021-08-10T22:25:38 < kakium69> mkay
2021-08-10T22:25:43 < kakium69> should do
2021-08-10T22:25:45 < Spirit532> I will try to bolt on some extra low impedance ground paths
2021-08-10T22:25:53 < Spirit532> maybe I did something really dumb
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2021-08-10T22:26:21 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-08-10T22:26:41 < kakium69> sup lorenc
2021-08-10T22:27:06  * Laurenceb is looking at cables
2021-08-10T22:27:10  * qyx too
2021-08-10T22:27:23 < Laurenceb> is it sane to run CAN and power down a twisted quad cable?
2021-08-10T22:27:40 < Laurenceb> crosstalk int as bad as I first thought, but it seems like a bad idea
2021-08-10T22:28:00 < ventyl> what about PoE?
2021-08-10T22:28:15 < kakium69> twisted quad?
2021-08-10T22:28:25 < kakium69> where do you get twisted quad?
2021-08-10T22:28:28 < kakium69> and why
2021-08-10T22:29:02 < Laurenceb> kakium69: it seems fairly common
2021-08-10T22:29:11 < Laurenceb> and its available and cheap...
2021-08-10T22:29:21 < kakium69> are you doing testing or production
2021-08-10T22:29:27 < kakium69> and how long are the cable runs
2021-08-10T22:29:43 < Laurenceb> 20m long
2021-08-10T22:29:47 < kakium69> and is it allowed to be half-assed
2021-08-10T22:29:59 < qyx> Laurenceb: yes it is done, see canopen, devicenet
2021-08-10T22:30:09 < qyx> there are quad cables for it
2021-08-10T22:30:47 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-08-10T22:30:54 < qyx> much standard thing
2021-08-10T22:30:59 < qyx> quite wow sometimes
2021-08-10T22:31:10 < Laurenceb> I'd worry about the power noise coupling to the CAN
2021-08-10T22:31:16 < qyx> lapp and helukabel both have special cables, purple
2021-08-10T22:31:39 < kakium69> qyx: twisted pair of twisted pairs or twisted quad?
2021-08-10T22:32:10 < qyx> two twisted pairs or a single quad, I hav also seen the latter
2021-08-10T22:32:15 < Laurenceb> https://infosys.beckhoff.com/english.php?content=../content/1033/bc5250
2021-08-10T22:32:25 < Laurenceb> thats two twisted with shields
2021-08-10T22:32:49 < Steffanx> that doesnt show anything
2021-08-10T22:33:08 < kakium69> laurencer: just make power smooth!
2021-08-10T22:33:16 < Laurenceb> lol kakium
2021-08-10T22:33:21 < kakium69> then you don't need to worry about it
2021-08-10T22:34:17 < kakium69> have filters for power
2021-08-10T22:34:23 < qyx> Laurenceb: helukabel can-bus 2x2 cable works ok with 250k CAN, over 75 m at least
2021-08-10T22:34:36 < qyx> power was mildly filtered 12 V output of a SMPS
2021-08-10T22:35:12 < qyx> it looked pretty good on the scope
2021-08-10T22:36:08 < kakium69> it's 2x2
2021-08-10T22:36:45 < Laurenceb> qyx: interesting, thanks
2021-08-10T22:36:54 < Laurenceb> but yeah thats not twisted quad
2021-08-10T22:37:15 < kakium69> why you want twisted quad anyway laurencer?
2021-08-10T22:37:18 < kakium69> price?
2021-08-10T22:37:40 < Laurenceb> yeah and availability and standards compliance for fire resistance
2021-08-10T22:40:03 < Laurenceb> people ask: how many twisted are in a twisted pair cable?
2021-08-10T22:40:08 < Laurenceb> my sides at google
2021-08-10T22:40:44 < qyx> do you want to use those red fire prevention system cables?
2021-08-10T22:40:54 < qyx> or fire detection or whatever is it
2021-08-10T22:44:51 < Laurenceb> I dont think so...
2021-08-10T22:47:29 < kakium69> anyways laurencer just make some dope filters for power
2021-08-10T22:47:54 < kakium69> and you are set to run power in the same twist
2021-08-10T22:47:59 < kakium69> set for*
2021-08-10T23:11:09 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe star quad isnt so bad after all
2021-08-10T23:11:35 < Laurenceb> but 2X2 with independent shields is gunna pwn it
2021-08-10T23:16:50 < Spirit532> I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this thing
2021-08-10T23:17:03 < Spirit532> I covered it in caps, put fucking busbars for ground all around
2021-08-10T23:17:13 < Spirit532> the 3.3 supply is clean as a whistle
2021-08-10T23:17:24 < Spirit532> why does it just randomly die while being debugged
2021-08-10T23:17:38 < qyx> you said it is not random
2021-08-10T23:18:14 < qyx> if it is random, then long wires || ground loop || fast clock
2021-08-10T23:18:28 < qyx> the debug cable, I mean
2021-08-10T23:18:57 < Spirit532> it's 180mm long, but I've been using it for years and had no issues
2021-08-10T23:20:22 < Spirit532> maybe the j-link can do better...
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2021-08-10T23:26:49 < bitmask> i gotta stop giving myself haircuts, i regret it every time :P
2021-08-10T23:29:44 < mawk> show pici
2021-08-10T23:29:46 < mawk> pic*
2021-08-10T23:29:53 < kakium69> I dont give or take haircuts
2021-08-10T23:30:18 < bitmask> hah no pics, it doesnt really come out bad or anything but its so messy and to get to an acceptable level takes hours
2021-08-10T23:30:35 < bitmask> hate cleaning up after
2021-08-10T23:33:32 < bitmask> is kaki bald or a bum
2021-08-10T23:34:21 < mawk> both
2021-08-10T23:34:31 < mawk> kakium69 is a bald bum
2021-08-10T23:34:38 < mawk> with a hairy bum
2021-08-10T23:34:45 < Spirit532> this is suuuuuuuuuuuuch bullshit
2021-08-10T23:34:49 < Spirit532> the jlink works just fine
2021-08-10T23:34:56 < Spirit532> halt, start, stop, break, step
2021-08-10T23:35:03 < mawk> and not the stlink?
2021-08-10T23:35:05 < kakium69> mawk: even worse
2021-08-10T23:35:05 < mawk> or what
2021-08-10T23:35:06 < Spirit532> yes!
2021-08-10T23:35:14 < Spirit532> did I literally just wear my... years old cable?
2021-08-10T23:35:32 < Spirit532> I need tag-connect.
2021-08-10T23:42:11 < Spirit532> well that was short lived
2021-08-10T23:42:17 < Spirit532> it still dies, even with the j-link
2021-08-10T23:51:54 < cluelessperson> so I have stm programmer installed and I'm trying to connect to and erase the chip/board I have connected by usb
2021-08-10T23:52:06 < cluelessperson> it opens the serial port but fails to connect
2021-08-10T23:54:32 < Spirit532> okay, yeah, I don't understand this at all now
2021-08-10T23:54:47 < Spirit532> twiddled the clocks a bit, set back to 100MHz(max for this chip), and it works fine now
2021-08-10T23:54:56 < Spirit532> I'll just give up and take a nap.
--- Day changed Wed Aug 11 2021
2021-08-11T00:11:51 < cluelessperson> I'm trying to follow these instructions
2021-08-11T00:11:51 < cluelessperson> https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/LoRa_E5_mini/#21-erase-factory-at-firmware
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2021-08-11T02:10:19 < cluelessperson> mawk, I'm stuck, stm32 programmer can't seem to connect to my thingy
2021-08-11T02:25:50 < qyx> at which point did you fail?
2021-08-11T02:27:10 < qyx> or better, what did you do?
2021-08-11T02:31:48 < cluelessperson> qyx, I go into the programmer gui,   set to USB, hit connect with the appropriate baud rate, get an error
2021-08-11T02:32:04 < cluelessperson> Error: Activating device: KO. Please, verify the boot mode configuration and check the serial port configuration
2021-08-11T02:43:35 < qyx> I am curious because your link doesn't describe how to program the thing using internal bootloader
2021-08-11T02:43:55 < qyx> it says how to connect with SWD under reset
2021-08-11T02:44:00 < qyx> using stlink debugger
2021-08-11T02:44:47 < cluelessperson> qyx, I'm not sure how to approach this.
2021-08-11T02:44:52 < Steffanx> Boot0 isnt even accessible
2021-08-11T02:45:01 < qyx> theres a button
2021-08-11T02:45:19 < qyx> cluelessperson: hold down boot0 button, press reset button, release boot0 button
2021-08-11T02:45:50 < qyx> and try again with your programmer
2021-08-11T02:45:56 < cluelessperson> qyx, yup, same thing
2021-08-11T02:46:29 < Steffanx> Qyx im pretty sure you looked at this module before and mentioned the boot0 thing. Its not is not available 
2021-08-11T02:46:32 < qyx> which programmer gui are you using?
2021-08-11T02:47:04 < qyx> Steffanx: now I remember, thats pretty interesting as the dev board has a button marked boot0
2021-08-11T02:47:37 < Steffanx> Boot or boot0? 
2021-08-11T02:47:42 < Steffanx> The photo says boot 
2021-08-11T02:47:44 < cluelessperson> qyx, https://i.imgur.com/rZOSuNq.mp4
2021-08-11T02:48:00 < cluelessperson> STM32CubeProgrammer
2021-08-11T02:48:11 < qyx> The "PB13/SPI_SCK/BOOT" pin on the LoRa-E5 module is just a normal GPIO, not the "BOOT0" pin of the MCU. This "PB13/SPI_SCK/BOOT" pin is used in the bootloader of the Factory AT firmware, to decide to jump to APP or stay in bootloader(for DFU). The real "BOOT0" pin doesn't pinout to the module, so users need to be careful when developing the low-power applications.
2021-08-11T02:48:17 < qyx> those fucks
2021-08-11T02:48:26 < qyx> noice why it doesn't work
2021-08-11T02:48:37 < qyx> cluelessperson: don't even try, you need a SWD debugger
2021-08-11T02:49:01 < cluelessperson> qyx, I don't understand that "those fucks" comment, could you explain?
2021-08-11T02:49:40 < Steffanx> Using usb wouldnt work anyway. Dont all stm32 only do dfu over usb?
2021-08-11T02:49:58 < Steffanx> So, if it shows up as some serial port its not the stm32 bootloader
2021-08-11T02:50:09 < qyx> theres a cp2102, so serial bootloader/stm32flash should work
2021-08-11T02:50:32 < Steffanx> Ah
2021-08-11T02:50:42 < qyx> cluelessperson: all stm32 (nearly all) have a boot0 pin which allows you to use the internal bootloader to flash your firmware
2021-08-11T02:50:43 < Steffanx> I didnt look that far -_-
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2021-08-11T02:51:06 < qyx> cluelessperson: what did they do is they didn't make it available, instead they used another GPIO for their boot switch
2021-08-11T02:51:14 < qyx> so you can't use the internal bootloader
2021-08-11T02:51:43 < qyx> boot0 is probably hardwired to H so the thing always boot from flash where the AT firmware with their custom bootloader resides
2021-08-11T02:53:04 < Steffanx> You should be able to use their bootloader, but I dont see how to use it. Except for "its dfu" 
2021-08-11T02:53:14 < qyx> so you either have to find out how to use their custom bootloader (using seeed's custom software of some sort) or use a SWD debugger to erase the thing as the tutorial explains
2021-08-11T02:53:31 < qyx> but how can it be DFU when there is a usb-serial bridge
2021-08-11T02:54:14  * cluelessperson isn't sure if he's hearing that this chip is a shitty waste of money
2021-08-11T02:54:30 < qyx> no you just need a proper debugger
2021-08-11T02:55:07 < Steffanx> You want a proper debugger anyway;)
2021-08-11T02:57:32 < cluelessperson> makes sense. thank you for holding my hand
2021-08-11T02:58:29 < qyx> check stlink, v3 is < 15e
2021-08-11T02:58:34 < qyx> v3 mini, that is
2021-08-11T02:58:45 < Steffanx> ./nick lesscluelessperson 
2021-08-11T02:58:55 < qyx> or buy a nucleo board, the cheapest ones cost around 10-12e
2021-08-11T02:59:03 < qyx> and include a stlink v2.x
2021-08-11T02:59:11 < qyx> which you can use to program other boards
2021-08-11T02:59:28 < qyx> or buy a jlink china clone as some suggested
2021-08-11T03:00:04 < qyx> or use your raspberry pi as a debugger together with openocd
2021-08-11T03:01:51 < mawk> did you do the boot pin thing we talked about cluelessperson ?
2021-08-11T03:02:10 < mawk> ah right
2021-08-11T03:02:16 < mawk> BOOT0 isn't routed out
2021-08-11T03:02:33 < mawk> no other suggested a real jlink edu mini qyx 
2021-08-11T03:02:37 < mawk> because it's the vastly superior option
2021-08-11T03:02:39 < cluelessperson> so uh,  what programmer do you suggest? :P
2021-08-11T03:02:43 < mawk> even kaki69 agreed
2021-08-11T03:02:53 < mawk> https://www.newark.com/segger/8-08-91-j-link-edu-mini/j-link-edu-mini-rohs-compliant/dp/78AC8471
2021-08-11T03:03:07 < mawk> that's the educational edition of an expensive programmer, but since it's educational it's cheaper
2021-08-11T03:03:21 < mawk> you can find it a bit cheaper elsewhere probably, down to $15
2021-08-11T03:03:42 < mawk> although if you get a nucleo board you get another stm32 and you get a builtin programmer for free
2021-08-11T03:03:57 < mawk> the nucleo boards feature a programmer on the board
2021-08-11T03:04:51 < mawk> <qyx> The "PB13/SPI_SCK/BOOT" pin on the LoRa-E5 module is just a normal GPIO, not the "BOOT0" pin of the MCU. This "PB13/SPI_SCK/BOOT" pin is used in the bootloader of the Factory AT firmware, to decide to jump to APP or stay in bootloader(for DFU). The real "BOOT0" pin doesn't pinout to the module, so users need to be careful when developing the low-power applications.
2021-08-11T03:04:58 < mawk> but that means the boot gpio pin is still read by the AT firmware
2021-08-11T03:05:08 < mawk> and can put the chip in DFU
2021-08-11T03:05:21 < mawk> but then when you flash your program you can't remove the bootloader I guess
2021-08-11T03:05:24 < mawk> so fuck that
2021-08-11T03:06:27 < cluelessperson> I'm confused
2021-08-11T03:07:02 < cluelessperson> I'd expect that the entire chip should be writable, bootloader + application, easily by any usb connection
2021-08-11T03:07:25 < qyx> yeah but did you see the schematic?
2021-08-11T03:07:27 < cluelessperson> mawk, what is this sort of pgorammer called?
2021-08-11T03:07:30 < qyx> there is no usb
2021-08-11T03:07:33 < cluelessperson> is it an SWD programmer?
2021-08-11T03:07:44 < qyx> it is only a usb-serial bridge
2021-08-11T03:08:03 < cluelessperson> AH
2021-08-11T03:08:08 < cluelessperson> okay, I get it now
2021-08-11T03:08:18 < qyx> Steffanx: also thx for reminding me that unfortunate misfeature
2021-08-11T03:08:30 < qyx> cluelessperson: it wouild be okay even with serial
2021-08-11T03:08:34 < cluelessperson> USB-serial -> Chip with custom AT application that can maybe flash with serial
2021-08-11T03:08:35 < bitmask> why did i just buy so much underwear
2021-08-11T03:08:41 < qyx> if they allowed you to toggle boot0
2021-08-11T03:08:43 < bitmask> anyone want some?
2021-08-11T03:08:53 < mawk> cluelessperson: yes but forget about the "maybe", you will need a programmer that hooks directly to SWD pins
2021-08-11T03:08:58 < mawk> the programmer will be USB of course
2021-08-11T03:09:09 < cluelessperson> mawk, what is this standard called?
2021-08-11T03:09:13 < cluelessperson> I have some programmers sitting around
2021-08-11T03:09:16 < mawk> SWD ?
2021-08-11T03:09:17 < cluelessperson> mainly AVR though
2021-08-11T03:09:18 < qyx> swd
2021-08-11T03:09:28 < mawk> serial wire debugging
2021-08-11T03:09:32 < mawk> or JTAG too
2021-08-11T03:09:49 < mawk> maybe you have jtag stuff
2021-08-11T03:10:00 < cluelessperson> ah, I have ISP stuff
2021-08-11T03:10:11 < mawk> ISP is serial 
2021-08-11T03:10:14 < mawk> for arduino
2021-08-11T03:10:17 < mawk> do you have a raspberry pi ?
2021-08-11T03:12:01 < cluelessperson> I do have raspberry pis, and esps
2021-08-11T03:12:12 < cluelessperson> I have ISP, BDP, and PDI programmers
2021-08-11T03:12:46 < mawk> if you have raspberry pi you can use it as SWD programmer
2021-08-11T03:12:52 < mawk> you're in luck
2021-08-11T03:13:04 < mawk> you just need a few GPIOs and that's it
2021-08-11T03:13:09 < mawk> and the openocd program
2021-08-11T03:14:00 < cluelessperson> that's easy enough, but it would add some time delay between flashing and testing
2021-08-11T03:14:20 < mawk> the delay could be millisecond
2021-08-11T03:14:25 < mawk> or at most seconds
2021-08-11T03:14:28 < mawk> if you use ssh
2021-08-11T03:14:38 < mawk> or maybe not even ssh, but network
2021-08-11T03:14:42 < mawk> openocd runs as a server
2021-08-11T03:15:06 < mawk> with some imagination you can have a seamless and fast flow
2021-08-11T03:15:37 < mawk> like nfs or sshfs to let the pi access your binaries, then you just use the openocd server over the network to flash your program
2021-08-11T03:15:47 < mawk> as a bonus your board is electrically isolated from your computer
2021-08-11T03:15:52 < cluelessperson> ooh, sounds pretty mature
2021-08-11T03:15:57 < mawk> yeah
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2021-08-11T03:17:46 < mawk> thank PaulFertser for this
2021-08-11T03:18:02 < cluelessperson> yee?   https://www.amazon.com/Comimark-Debugger-Programmer-Downloader-Replace/dp/B07V2CKG19/  
2021-08-11T03:18:14 < mawk> he's a dev of openocd
2021-08-11T03:18:31 < mawk> yes that's a counterfeit of a jlink
2021-08-11T03:18:52 < mawk> it's half the price of the real one, so unless money is very tight I'd take the real one myself
2021-08-11T03:19:38 < mawk> uh the real one is $30 on amazon, but cheaper on other sites anyway
2021-08-11T03:19:44 < mawk> https://www.amazon.com/Segger-J-Link-EDU-mini-Debugger/dp/B0758XRMTF/
2021-08-11T03:19:52 < mawk> but you can start with the raspberry pi in the meantime, it really works
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2021-08-11T03:24:55 < englishman> can't you tweezer boot0 to hi/lo
2021-08-11T03:25:25 < mawk> it's some kind of module
2021-08-11T03:25:30 < mawk> I think the pin is under a shield
2021-08-11T03:25:35 < mawk> or under some bga shit
2021-08-11T03:25:42 < englishman> Factory AT Firmware is programmed with RDP(Read Protection) Level 1, developers need to remove RDP first with STM32Cube Programmer. 
2021-08-11T03:25:43 < englishman> rip
2021-08-11T03:25:50 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-11T03:25:57 < mawk> so you can program it once
2021-08-11T03:25:57 < englishman> not exactly developer-friendly
2021-08-11T03:25:57 < mawk> lol
2021-08-11T03:26:14 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-11T03:26:18 < englishman> cluelessperson: what are you trying to do and why?
2021-08-11T03:26:42 < cluelessperson> englishman, program this board I have.
2021-08-11T03:26:47 < englishman> why?
2021-08-11T03:26:57 < cluelessperson> why not?
2021-08-11T03:27:06 < englishman> just wasting time for fun?
2021-08-11T03:27:09 < cluelessperson> I'm thinking of making my own custom pcbs with it
2021-08-11T03:27:21 < cluelessperson> in pursuit of lora mesh networking fun
2021-08-11T03:28:00 < englishman> if you'd like to do development, you're probably better off getting a cheap development board and soldering the module to it, or making a little breakout
2021-08-11T03:28:06 < qyx> oh radio stacks are always fun
2021-08-11T03:28:11 < qyx> been there done that
2021-08-11T03:28:20 < mawk> I think there's a nucleo with the stm32 lora thing cluelessperson 
2021-08-11T03:28:28 < mawk> and you wouldn't need this custom user-unfriendly module
2021-08-11T03:28:33 < qyx> yeah export restricted
2021-08-11T03:28:35 < mawk> the nucleo has builtin programmer
2021-08-11T03:28:36 < englishman> that way you can start with blinky.c and get your development tools working
2021-08-11T03:28:38 < mawk> ah
2021-08-11T03:28:38 < mawk> lol
2021-08-11T03:28:44 < englishman> before jumping head-first into reverse engineering
2021-08-11T03:28:52 < mawk> SWD port is exposed englishman 
2021-08-11T03:29:00 < mawk> no RE is needed, just $$$
2021-08-11T03:29:05 < englishman> he didnt know what that was
2021-08-11T03:29:10 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-11T03:29:23 < englishman> a $10 devboard would have that in the user manual
2021-08-11T03:29:23 < mawk> ind€€d
2021-08-11T03:29:55 < englishman> i dont see any schematics on that site
2021-08-11T03:29:58 < cluelessperson> I am an idiot right now
2021-08-11T03:30:01 < englishman> so there would be reverse engineering
2021-08-11T03:30:05 < englishman> noone thinks that
2021-08-11T03:30:08 < englishman> you're just new
2021-08-11T03:30:22 < englishman> big difference
2021-08-11T03:31:31 < cluelessperson> well I'm considering using this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/LoRa-E5-Wireless-Module-p-4745.html
2021-08-11T03:31:36 < cluelessperson> the actual module
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2021-08-11T11:22:30 < Spirit532> So I got the thing to program and debug successfully, but at some point the j-link fails like this:
2021-08-11T11:22:32 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/0dFwE.txt
2021-08-11T11:22:37 < Spirit532> Any idea what could be causing it?
2021-08-11T11:24:17 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: what about OpenOCD?
2021-08-11T11:24:27 < Spirit532> I don't think openocd can do jlink
2021-08-11T11:24:46 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: not sure what you mean?
2021-08-11T11:26:25 < Spirit532> I'm in cubeide, there's no option to run openocd with jlink
2021-08-11T11:26:28 < Spirit532> only stlink
2021-08-11T11:27:02 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: this sounds too odd. It's just interface/jlink.cfg instead of interface/stlink.cfg.
2021-08-11T11:27:23 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/rYn1j.png
2021-08-11T11:27:24 < Spirit532> dunno
2021-08-11T11:28:23 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: OpenOCD supports plenty of debug adapters
2021-08-11T11:28:49 < Spirit532> yes, but cube does not
2021-08-11T11:29:29 < PaulFertser> Can't you start OpenOCD manually?
2021-08-11T11:30:29 < Spirit532> cube doesn't support running jlink via openocd
2021-08-11T11:30:35 < Spirit532> even if I start the thing in the background
2021-08-11T11:31:00 < Spirit532> but it doesn't fail immediately, it fails like 30 seconds after I start debugging
2021-08-11T11:31:03 < Spirit532> I can step through things, etcf
2021-08-11T11:32:12 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: probably your target firmware goes to sleep mode at that moment?
2021-08-11T11:32:21 < Spirit532> it's blank and never touches sleep mode
2021-08-11T11:32:28 < Spirit532> just running a while loop with a hal delay
2021-08-11T11:33:05 < PaulFertser> With OpenOCD I know how to get more info about what's happening, with proprietary jlink server, no clue.
2021-08-11T11:34:56 < Spirit532> it's definitely not related to clock speed
2021-08-11T11:35:00 < Spirit532> as it was before
2021-08-11T11:35:13 < Spirit532> running it directly from the 16MHz HSI has the same results
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2021-08-11T11:37:44 < Spirit532> could it be segger doing something shitty and breaking jlink clones?
2021-08-11T11:37:56 < Spirit532> this is a clone, and it does come up with "this j-link is defective" because of the blank serial number
2021-08-11T11:38:55 < ventyl> Spirit532: what about throwing cube ide, where it belongs?
2021-08-11T11:39:05 < Spirit532> in my start menu?
2021-08-11T11:39:05 < Spirit532> yes
2021-08-11T11:39:27 < ventyl> i meant more like trashcan
2021-08-11T11:39:49 < Spirit532> I prefer convenience while you dig yourself deeper into command line hell
2021-08-11T11:40:17 < ventyl> well, dealing with malfunctioning debugger for about a day doesn't sound much like convenience
2021-08-11T11:40:24 < Spirit532> never had the problem before
2021-08-11T11:48:52 < Spirit532> It seems to not care what I do with the debugger, and more to be time based
2021-08-11T11:49:10 < Spirit532> If I just let it sit at HAL_Init(); while halted, it still dies around 30 seconds later
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2021-08-11T13:22:58 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN2OVPzo_rI
2021-08-11T13:23:58 < qyx> it looks like as if he holds the soldering iron for the first time
2021-08-11T13:28:42 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@124.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-11T13:28:43 < Laurenceb> keeekkkk
2021-08-11T13:28:44 < Laurenceb> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/aug/08/sales-funnels-and-high-value-men-the-rise-of-strategic-dating?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1628536530
2021-08-11T13:28:59 < Laurenceb> >PUA bullshit is epin when its wamman doing it
2021-08-11T13:29:23 < jpa-> qyx: how so?
2021-08-11T13:29:44 < ventyl> lolrence, how goes brexit?
2021-08-11T13:29:50 < Laurenceb> very good
2021-08-11T13:29:54 < Laurenceb> >I got to age 34 and woke up one Christmas morning on a fold-out bed in the garage of some friends of my parents and was like, ‘I don’t want to live the rest of my life like this,
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2021-08-11T13:30:01 < Laurenceb> keeekk literally female incels
2021-08-11T13:30:15 < Laurenceb> this is hilarious
2021-08-11T13:30:52 < jpa-> lb's new girlfriend? match made in 4chan
2021-08-11T13:30:56 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-08-11T13:31:08 < Laurenceb> >Gruniad discovers female incels exist
2021-08-11T13:31:14 < Laurenceb> >wtf I love incels now
2021-08-11T13:33:33 < Laurenceb> keekk now I'm reading her shit in the "chateau autiste" voice
2021-08-11T13:35:08 < jpa-> so, there seems to be a whole subreddit dedicated for strategies on how to avoid ending up on a date with Laurenceb
2021-08-11T13:35:16 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-08-11T13:35:28 < zyp> Laurenceb didn't discover FDS until now?
2021-08-11T13:35:44 < Laurenceb> basically a whole subreddit where they copypasta incels.co and swap the gender
2021-08-11T13:36:00 < Laurenceb> zyp: nah I dont follow reddit drama
2021-08-11T13:36:20 < zyp> thought it'd be right up your alley
2021-08-11T13:36:30 < Laurenceb> the funniest thing is swapping genders makes gruniad love it
2021-08-11T13:39:24 < jpa-> by a cursory look, the themes in the content seem a bit different though
2021-08-11T13:41:17 < jpa-> though i guess it is a kind of gender swap to go from "i'm gonna rape those women because they don't give the sex i need" to "some dude raped a woman because he thought he deserved sex"
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2021-08-11T14:56:42 < tct_> this feels awfully off-topic.
2021-08-11T14:57:47 < tct_> I came here to learn about stm32
2021-08-11T15:03:40 < Steffanx> Good bye tct_ 
2021-08-11T15:03:57 < Steffanx> Try ##stm32 telegram 
2021-08-11T15:12:30 < tct_> I don´t think I will
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2021-08-11T16:07:05 < bitmask> guten mañana
2021-08-11T16:08:28 < bitmask> what is txxfercount? is it a countdown as its transmitting?
2021-08-11T16:09:16 < bitmask> or possibly count up that just gets reset at the end
2021-08-11T16:09:52 < bitmask> oh other code shows while > 0
2021-08-11T16:09:58 < bitmask> so guess the first was correct
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2021-08-11T16:45:52 < Steffanx> Buenos días señor bitmask  
2021-08-11T16:46:20 < bitmask> howdy
2021-08-11T16:46:36 < bitmask> wassssssup
2021-08-11T16:48:15 < bitmask> sooo tired
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2021-08-11T17:00:29 < Steffanx> ¿Muy cansado? ¿Por que, bitmask?
2021-08-11T17:06:02 < bitmask> yo no se
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2021-08-11T17:52:26 < Laurenceb> sheeeetttt
2021-08-11T17:52:27 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4679997,-0.5998085,3a,15y,4.73h,88.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqFcEkLV8-SRS25Gc53cR2g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
2021-08-11T17:52:48 < Laurenceb> there goes my plan to raid frogmore cottage
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2021-08-11T18:01:36 < Steffanx> Only Laurenceb and his autism know what it is about..
2021-08-11T18:01:45 < Laurenceb> the ginger bastards house
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2021-08-11T18:42:23 < karlp> mawk: you don't need to let openocd have access to the binaries, you just use gdb locally, and connect to "target ext oocd-server-ip:3333" and use "load" like normal....
2021-08-11T18:42:46 < karlp> if you try and use oocd without gdb, then yes, itneeds access to the files to load directly.
2021-08-11T18:51:58 < mouseghost> oooooooooooooooooocd
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2021-08-11T19:22:30 < cluelessperson> mawk,   yup, I just got an email advertising STmicroelectronics "Power Efficient AI Applications to the Edge" webinar.
2021-08-11T19:26:08 < mawk> ah yes karlp I forgot about that
2021-08-11T19:26:58 < mawk> it's free cluelessperson 
2021-08-11T19:27:00 < mawk> is it advertisement?
2021-08-11T19:27:06 < mawk> they also offer invitations to workshop
2021-08-11T19:27:10 < mawk> and they give you free stuff when you go
2021-08-11T19:27:38 < mawk> I almost went to one and got an unlock stm32wb nucleo like zyp has, but I was too lazy to go
2021-08-11T19:28:05 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-11T19:29:10 < mawk> but you can click "unsubscribe" at the end of the email or something
2021-08-11T19:33:44 < Steffanx> poor cluelessperson
2021-08-11T19:33:48 < Steffanx> end of the world
2021-08-11T19:34:52 < qyx> they should rather publish sane app notes instead of doing long and void webinars
2021-08-11T19:36:00 < englishman> Same for every mfg
2021-08-11T19:36:19 < englishman> the cypress USB-pd one was super cringey
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2021-08-11T19:54:18 < mawk> what is mfg
2021-08-11T19:54:23 < mawk> motherfogger
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2021-08-11T19:55:06 < ventyl> menschfachgruppe
2021-08-11T19:55:24 < mawk> hmm hmm
2021-08-11T19:55:32 < ventyl> same for ftl
2021-08-11T19:55:47 < ventyl> it may stand for faster-than-light or fachteamleider
2021-08-11T19:56:35 < mawk> I did C unit tests Steffanx 
2021-08-11T19:56:37 < mawk> do you like it?
2021-08-11T19:56:52 < ventyl> I see you like doing them
2021-08-11T19:56:57 < mawk> it starts with #include "shit.c" if you want to unit test shit.c
2021-08-11T19:57:01 < mawk> totally standard C
2021-08-11T19:57:01 < ventyl> you can make ones for my creepy RTOS
2021-08-11T19:57:09 < mawk> I used cmock for mocking
2021-08-11T19:57:12 < mawk> and unity for running the tests
2021-08-11T19:57:16 < mawk> but I forked cmock to modify it
2021-08-11T19:57:21 < mawk> to suit better my needs
2021-08-11T19:57:48 < ventyl> cmock to me seemed just as polished fart with no real added value
2021-08-11T19:58:08 < ventyl> but that might be just an impression after seeing slide deck
2021-08-11T19:58:18 < mawk> it's for mocking C code
2021-08-11T19:58:21 < mawk> how else would you mock C code?
2021-08-11T19:58:27 < mawk> cmock works very well for that purpose
2021-08-11T19:58:49 < ventyl> can it do something more than just creating a dummy to make linker happy?
2021-08-11T19:59:05 < mawk> what do you mean?
2021-08-11T19:59:17 < mawk> cmock will provide mocked versions of whatever you want to mock
2021-08-11T19:59:23 < mawk> and you can assert that the mocks were called with such or such arguments
2021-08-11T19:59:27 < mawk> like, basic unit testing
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2021-08-11T19:59:34 < mawk> how else would you do that without cmock or another lib like it?
2021-08-11T19:59:34 < ventyl> quite often I need mock to do something useful which is determined by what exactly test does
2021-08-11T20:00:18 < mawk> if you don't use mocks you have to do dependency injection and it's often not possible, or if it is possible it requires a full code rewrite if you don't already do that
2021-08-11T20:00:27 < mawk> using mocks allows you do test your code without having to have the code adapt to the tests
2021-08-11T20:00:33 < mawk> the tests should adapt to the code and that's it
2021-08-11T20:00:47 < ventyl> that's right
2021-08-11T20:01:17 < ventyl> as an example, let's say I have a piece of code, which performs "select next thread suitable for running"
2021-08-11T20:01:31 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-11T20:01:37 < ventyl> it calls something external to scheduler and it changes it's behavior based on what that external component returns
2021-08-11T20:01:46 < ventyl> so I need my mock to behave depending on what exacly I test
2021-08-11T20:01:51 < mawk> yes
2021-08-11T20:01:55 < mawk> so cmock can do that
2021-08-11T20:01:58 < ventyl> if I want to test scenario "nothing runnable" I need mock to return NULL
2021-08-11T20:02:03 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-11T20:02:06 < mawk> well you can do that
2021-08-11T20:02:10 < ventyl> elsewhere I might need to return pointer to thread
2021-08-11T20:02:20 < mawk> you can provide a static value that the mock will return, or you can do something more fancy and have a custom function run when the mock is called
2021-08-11T20:02:24 < Mangy_Dog> http://imgur.com/gallery/JRGz0BG. This one done!
2021-08-11T20:02:30 < ventyl> can it do this in more comfortable way compared to manually written function?
2021-08-11T20:02:39 < Steffanx> no oidio Mangy_Dog?
2021-08-11T20:02:45 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2021-08-11T20:02:46 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-11T20:03:01 < mawk> ?=ok
2021-08-11T20:03:02 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-11T20:03:39 < mawk> yes ventyl you just do yourfunction_ExpectAndReturn(thevaluetoreturn, ...);
2021-08-11T20:03:50 < mawk> and then when "yourfunction" is called thevaluetoreturn will be returned
2021-08-11T20:03:55 < mawk> and you can test whether yourfunction has been called or not
2021-08-11T20:04:20 < ventyl> hm, that's worth of like 15 lines of C macro
2021-08-11T20:04:35 < mawk> https://github.com/ThrowTheSwitch/CMock/blob/master/docs/CMock_Summary.md
2021-08-11T20:04:40 < ventyl> (which is what I actually am doing right now)
2021-08-11T20:04:41 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: looks so nice!
2021-08-11T20:04:44 < qyx> you shall not write multiline C macros
2021-08-11T20:05:01 < Mangy_Dog> thanks :D
2021-08-11T20:05:03 < ventyl> MISRA-C approves!
2021-08-11T20:11:19 < Steffanx> i meant: where is the audio, Mangy_Dog ;)
2021-08-11T20:12:14 < Mangy_Dog> aaaahhh
2021-08-11T20:12:20 < Mangy_Dog> muted for now :p
2021-08-11T20:13:00 < ventyl> is this submission into tricorder contest?
2021-08-11T20:15:33 < Mangy_Dog> naa
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2021-08-11T20:16:20 < Steffanx> too easy to win?
2021-08-11T20:18:27 < ventyl> mawk: BTW, I used to mock my shit manually using some C++ template magic, because the shit was too complex to be mocked by anything readilly available
2021-08-11T20:19:07 < mawk> not even gtest?
2021-08-11T20:19:14 < mawk> that's what we use for the c++
2021-08-11T20:19:19 < ventyl> gtest is good for C++ API
2021-08-11T20:19:23 < ventyl> but my API was C internally
2021-08-11T20:19:50 < ventyl> implementing mocks in C++ while exposing C API gave me some additional strength and made tests looking pretty
2021-08-11T20:21:48 < ventyl> I assume that using templates I could create allmighty mock very easilly
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2021-08-11T20:22:04 < mawk> yeah
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2021-08-11T20:29:26 < Steffanx> Your rtos is still closed sores isnt it ventyl?
2021-08-11T20:29:51 < ventyl> it is more like garbage source rather than closed source, Steffanx
2021-08-11T20:30:09 < mawk> lol
2021-08-11T20:33:17 < Steffanx> both then
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2021-08-11T20:33:47 < ventyl> mostly, I want to clean the source up before publishing it
2021-08-11T20:34:15 < ventyl> right now it is just a bunch of ifdefs to make it run on a few micros I've been running it on
2021-08-11T20:36:46 < mawk> micro macros
2021-08-11T20:37:11 < ventyl> Steffanx: there is a bunch of docs available
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2021-08-11T21:14:21 < mawk> calm down dobson 
2021-08-11T21:14:22 < mawk> dogukan: *
2021-08-11T21:14:40 < dogukan> oh sorry, was trying to set up my IRC client
2021-08-11T21:15:03 < mawk> ah that's fine
2021-08-11T21:15:13 < mawk> which client did you pick
2021-08-11T21:15:16 < mawk> I hope weechat
2021-08-11T21:15:38 < dogukan> Konversation
2021-08-11T21:15:54 < mawk> a
2021-08-11T21:20:12 < Steffanx> "a" is not really a word you use to show your (dis)approval, mawk
2021-08-11T21:22:40 < mawk> why
2021-08-11T21:22:46 < mawk> if I do it then it's valid
2021-08-11T21:23:36 < Steffanx> Now your french arrogance is showing, dont do that. :P
2021-08-11T21:23:57 < mawk> :(
2021-08-11T21:29:31 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-08-11T21:56:45 < mawk> :((
2021-08-11T21:56:52 < mawk> my tests run perfectly now
2021-08-11T21:56:59 < mawk> and it generates a junit .xml file that jenkins can read
2021-08-11T21:57:05 < mawk> it's like I'm doing pro work or something
2021-08-11T21:57:47 < mawk> I just had to write a giant makefile and hack a few scripts in ruby which I didn't know anything about
2021-08-11T21:57:59 < mawk> why can't they do stuff in python like normal people
2021-08-11T21:59:05 < qyx> because python and ardweeno is for 8y old
2021-08-11T21:59:09 < qyx> don't you remember?
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2021-08-11T22:07:14 < mawk> :(
2021-08-11T22:07:30 < qyx> have you seen plotly recently?
2021-08-11T22:07:39 < mawk> who's that
2021-08-11T22:07:55 < qyx> a sci graphing lib/suite for py & friends
2021-08-11T22:07:59 < qyx> *science
2021-08-11T22:08:10 < mawk> it looks very enterprisey
2021-08-11T22:08:14 < qyx> they are transforming themselves to dash or how do they call that
2021-08-11T22:08:20 < qyx> looks promising
2021-08-11T22:09:35 < mawk> I hope it's more useable than matplotlib
2021-08-11T22:10:39 < mawk> https://plotly.com/python/plotly-express/
2021-08-11T22:10:39 < mawk> fancy
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2021-08-11T23:04:07 < cluelessperson> mawk, advertising is done because it makes profit.
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2021-08-11T23:35:59 < Steffanx> Tervetuloa kakium69
2021-08-11T23:36:23 < kakium69> Kiitän Stef
2021-08-11T23:36:36 < kakium69> Hyvää iltaa
2021-08-11T23:36:50 < kakium69> Vihdoinkin puhumme samaa kieltä
2021-08-11T23:37:38 < kakium69> Oli jo aikakin opetella suomen kieli
2021-08-11T23:40:02 < Steffanx> Ei ei ei.
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2021-08-11T23:42:52 < kakium69> Kyllä vain!
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 12 2021
2021-08-12T00:19:37 < kakium69> Elokuvasuosituksia Stef?
2021-08-12T00:19:46 < kakium69> Steffanx
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2021-08-12T02:15:24 < mawk> it's not an evil company cluelessperson 
2021-08-12T02:15:28 < mawk> and it's not even american
2021-08-12T02:15:48 < mawk> it's french and italian, publicly traded in the euronext stock exchange in amsterdam
2021-08-12T02:17:04 < cluelessperson> mawk, I doubt it's an evil company, but I'm absolutely angrily against companies collecting my contact info and then contacting me for advertisement against my will.
2021-08-12T02:17:41 < mawk> it's not exactly against your wil
2021-08-12T02:18:06 < mawk> and it's the exact same company that you gave the email to that is sending you emails
2021-08-12T02:18:08 < mawk> so they didn't sell it
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2021-08-12T02:18:28 < mawk> but yeah when you sign up they warn you
2021-08-12T02:19:06 < mawk> go to your ST account on the website and you can disable all email communication
2021-08-12T02:19:15 < mawk> including the "weekly update" newsletter
2021-08-12T02:21:36 < englishman> or you can go to a free seminar and get some devboards, lunch and meet your local FAE
2021-08-12T02:22:23 < cluelessperson> mawk, Manufactured consent is not consent.
2021-08-12T02:22:51  * cluelessperson is arguing on principle here, he's not particularly angry with this company, but he resents this behavior in general.
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2021-08-12T03:14:52 < mawk> are you speaking finnish now Steffanx ??????
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2021-08-12T05:18:56 < Steffanx>  Lolno mawk
2021-08-12T05:26:50 < jpa-> dear dr. Steffanx, my throat is sore; do i have corona?
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2021-08-12T09:39:05 < mawk> open one of your local fermented fish delicacy and smell it jpa- 
2021-08-12T09:39:19 < mawk> if you can't smell it you have corona
2021-08-12T09:43:34 < jpa-> i can smell, but my eyelid is twitching
2021-08-12T09:43:40 < jpa-> at this point i'm pretty sure it is corona
2021-08-12T09:43:47 < jpa-> the 5g shot must have failed
2021-08-12T09:43:56 < mawk> :(
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2021-08-12T10:02:53 < Steffanx> What 5g shot did you get jpa- 
2021-08-12T10:03:27 < jpa-> corminaty
2021-08-12T10:03:48 < jpa-> though only got one so far, so i guess i'm at 4.5g
2021-08-12T10:04:02 < zyp> kakimirnaty
2021-08-12T10:04:43 < Steffanx> AH
2021-08-12T10:05:11 < Steffanx> So better get that coronizzle tested?
2021-08-12T10:24:54 < Steffanx> Farewell jpa- 
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2021-08-12T10:52:17 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/esd_tester.jpg  such ESD, much IEC-61000-4-2
2021-08-12T10:52:30 < jpa-> but now i'm too scared to zap my prototypes, what if they break?!
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2021-08-12T11:43:54 < benishor> jpa-: isn't that the point though?
2021-08-12T11:46:11 < jpa-> they didn't break, that is what i wanted
2021-08-12T11:47:10 < benishor> grate
2021-08-12T11:47:18 < benishor> did you have any esd diodes in place?
2021-08-12T11:48:07 < jpa-> yes
2021-08-12T12:32:58 < PaulFertser> Has anyone seen an optocoupler LED going short-circuit and then open? I have a device here with a typical TOP224 flyback and the current limiting resistor for the feedback optocoupler LED (560 Ohm 0805) is fried.
2021-08-12T12:36:06 < jpa-> what resistance does the resistor measure now?
2021-08-12T12:36:31 < jpa-> it would sound much more likely that there was overvoltage on input that damaged both LED and resistor
2021-08-12T12:37:18 < jpa-> considering optocoupler LEDs usually drop only 1.5V or so, the small difference wouldn't fry the resistor
2021-08-12T12:37:57 < PaulFertser> jpa-: the resistor has its metal pads off, and the PCB damaged. Bare resistor was still kinda measuring 560.
2021-08-12T12:40:10 < PaulFertser> NEC PS2501 says 80 mA absolute maximum
2021-08-12T12:40:25 < qyx> could it be that the regulation failed on the primary side raising the secondary voltage
2021-08-12T12:40:28 < qyx> and frying the resistor?
2021-08-12T12:40:45 < jpa-> considering the parts have failed from heat, it is not surprising that they could change from short to open when cooling down
2021-08-12T12:41:11 < PaulFertser> qyx: might be but now the secondary rises only to 10 V and the primary switches off apparently.
2021-08-12T12:41:36 < PaulFertser> And the device itself seems to be working fine if I feed 12 V from a "lab psu".
2021-08-12T12:41:38 < qyx> optocoupler may be happy with 80 mA but 560 ohm resistor not
2021-08-12T12:42:27 < qyx> but that would be ~40 V
2021-08-12T12:42:31 < PaulFertser> The LED doesn't seem to be working anymore.
2021-08-12T12:45:00 < PaulFertser> Hm, so if a voltage surge in mains caused too high secondary voltage and it blew the resistor and LED but then LDO + capacitors saved the rest. Plausible.
2021-08-12T12:47:40 < jpa-> the fact that it shuts down now seems to indicate it might fail-safe with a broken optocoupler, but it could still be that the comparator or some other part is faulty and caused voltage rise due to lack of regulation
2021-08-12T13:02:08 < PaulFertser> Yep
2021-08-12T13:02:09 < qyx> those regulators I have been working with all shut down/stop switching when the feedback loop is open
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2021-08-12T13:58:20 < englishman> did they continue to function normally without interruption from the operator
2021-08-12T13:59:37 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-08-12T14:00:29 < englishman> congratulations you have achieved category A esd immunity
2021-08-12T14:00:40 < englishman> please continue to radiated immunity
2021-08-12T14:01:28 < qyx> put it in microwave oven
2021-08-12T14:04:01 < englishman> hmm, it would only be off by an order of magnitude. only one frequency tho
2021-08-12T14:06:16 < qyx> is radiated immunity tested with 100 W or so?
2021-08-12T14:06:42 < englishman> 3 V/m or 10 V/m depending on standard and frequency
2021-08-12T14:06:50 < qyx> but evenly from all sides!
2021-08-12T14:06:58 < englishman> evenly from 6 sides
2021-08-12T14:08:03 < englishman> cant stop looking at this butthole nebula https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
2021-08-12T14:25:28 < Steffanx> Nice background for your new iPhone, englishman  
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2021-08-12T15:56:35 < englishman> Steffanx: aktchually i have a nice photo of the pillars of creation that my pal took from his backyard
2021-08-12T15:58:47 < englishman> For the configure the desired I/O in analog mode in the GPIOx_MODER register and configure the required function in the registers.
2021-08-12T15:58:52 < englishman> fucking ST docs, man
2021-08-12T15:59:29 < Steffanx> Dont you have people to read the docs for you?
2021-08-12T15:59:37 < Steffanx> People = minions 
2021-08-12T16:00:01 < englishman> minions can't get f302 adc multi-channel conversion working today
2021-08-12T16:00:56 < qyx> did they check libopencmš examples?
2021-08-12T16:01:14 < qyx> where did you steal f302
2021-08-12T16:02:31 < englishman> firmware update for existing hardware
2021-08-12T16:02:33 < englishman> and, china.
2021-08-12T16:03:06 < englishman> does the adc need anything dumb like throwing away first sample after conversion
2021-08-12T16:03:33 < englishman> ADC_RegularChannelConfig(ADC1, channel, 1, ADC_SampleTime_7Cycles5);
2021-08-12T16:03:34 < englishman> ADC_StartConversion(ADC1);
2021-08-12T16:03:38 < englishman> while(ADC_GetFlagStatus(ADC1, ADC_FLAG_EOC) == RESET);
2021-08-12T16:03:41 < englishman> return ADC_GetConversionValue(ADC1);
2021-08-12T16:04:06 < englishman> says he's getting noise for all channels except the first
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2021-08-12T16:06:18 < qyx> is that all
2021-08-12T16:06:27 < qyx> how that code handles multiple channels?
2021-08-12T16:06:34 < englishman> channel argument
2021-08-12T16:07:02 < qyx> so he is what, calling the routinne multiple times?
2021-08-12T16:07:08 < englishman> yeah once for each measurement
2021-08-12T16:07:12 < englishman> nothing fast
2021-08-12T16:07:13 < qyx> instead of configuring and sampling all at once?
2021-08-12T16:07:27 < englishman> well this is test code
2021-08-12T16:07:42 < englishman> irl we need channel 1 repeatedly, 2+3 just once on boot and 4 occasionally
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2021-08-12T16:09:42 < qyx> and what happens if only channel 2 is sample regularly?
2021-08-12T16:09:57 < englishman> he says, noise
2021-08-12T16:10:17 < Laurenceb> the demiurge !
2021-08-12T16:10:24 < qyx> so the problem is not in that he cannot get multiple channels working
2021-08-12T16:10:38 < qyx> but he cannot get any channel besides the first to sample properly
2021-08-12T16:10:41 < englishman> right
2021-08-12T16:10:45 < englishman> so i'm looking at init code
2021-08-12T16:10:45 < qyx> hm
2021-08-12T16:11:02 < Laurenceb> https://66.media.tumblr.com/36d140ea146a9ca098b467de24155818/tumblr_pr0jwsDbwN1r22kze_400.jpg
2021-08-12T16:11:25 < Steffanx> Quality is so bad.. cant even read it.
2021-08-12T16:11:45 < Steffanx> And its probably boring anyway
2021-08-12T16:12:28 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2021-08-12T16:12:31 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@124.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by englishman
2021-08-12T16:12:31 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [Laurenceb]
2021-08-12T16:12:36 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2021-08-12T16:13:00 < qyx> but ot, a chinagirl on linkedin posted a pic showing they have some F413 to sell
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2021-08-12T16:33:02 < englishman> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/OuRRUs52.html
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2021-08-12T16:34:33 < englishman> If I change the adc sample time, I will get widely different values for all the measurements except ADC_channel_1, which is the pulse measurement channel. I added some comments regarding what I measure when I set the sample time to 7.5 cycles with the ADC sample clock set to 12MHz. That setup gives the best values, even though they are not all correct.
2021-08-12T16:36:33 < specing> englishman: wth is demiurge?
2021-08-12T16:36:50 < mouseghost> isnt that some old fart greek philosophy god
2021-08-12T16:36:54 < englishman> don't know / don't care
2021-08-12T16:37:13 < specing> and that thing LB posted has unreadable text
2021-08-12T16:37:23 < mawk> poor lawrence
2021-08-12T16:37:29 < specing> I don't get it
2021-08-12T16:37:32 < specing> what did he do wrong
2021-08-12T16:37:32 < mouseghost> lavwence
2021-08-12T16:37:39 < mawk> he memed too hard specing 
2021-08-12T16:37:45 < mawk> for too long
2021-08-12T16:37:53 < specing> So what
2021-08-12T16:38:04 < specing> everyone knows that all stm32 conversation has moved to ##pic
2021-08-12T16:38:05 < mawk> britishman doesn't like memes
2021-08-12T16:38:07 < specing> get on with the times
2021-08-12T16:38:10 < mawk> lol
2021-08-12T16:41:41 < qyx> englishman: oh aren't the two other channels high impedance?
2021-08-12T16:42:02 < englishman> not really
2021-08-12T16:42:47 < englishman> adc2 is a thermistor, adc3 is a straight pullup 100k, adc4 is a divider, 22k pullup and 100k pulldown
2021-08-12T16:42:52 < englishman> impedances too high?
2021-08-12T16:43:47 < mouseghost> i dont understand
2021-08-12T16:44:00 < englishman> vbat measurement is also off
2021-08-12T16:44:17 < mouseghost> wahts wroooong
2021-08-12T16:44:19 < mouseghost> i want to help
2021-08-12T16:44:35 < englishman> oh i pasted the link just before you joined
2021-08-12T16:44:39 < englishman> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/OuRRUs52.html
2021-08-12T16:44:47 < englishman> stm32f302c8
2021-08-12T16:46:46 < aandrew> englishman: what is up with your usDelay function
2021-08-12T16:47:25 < mouseghost> funny code
2021-08-12T16:49:06 < mouseghost> im not sure how adc works, does it drain the electrons at read?
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2021-08-12T16:54:05 < mouseghost> englishman, is vbat connected directly to vdd?
2021-08-12T16:54:14 < englishman> Yes
2021-08-12T16:54:34 < Steffanx> Time to read about how a sample and hold adc works, mouseghost 
2021-08-12T16:54:47 < Steffanx> And then the other ADCs 
2021-08-12T16:57:10 < mouseghost> Steffanx, so basically time measurement
2021-08-12T16:57:28 < mouseghost> or wait no
2021-08-12T16:58:20 < mouseghost> "Sample and hold circuits are used in linear systems. In some kinds of analog-to-digital converters, the input is compared to a voltage generated internally from a digital-to-analog converter (DAC). The circuit tries a series of values and stops converting once the voltages are equal, within some defined error margin" aha!
2021-08-12T16:58:31 < mouseghost> so a dac and a comp.
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2021-08-12T17:04:51 < karlp> englishman: does your source allow 7.5 cycle sampling times? thats pretty short.
2021-08-12T17:07:56 < karlp> heh. love the GPIOn + GPIOm style... equivalent, just... will cause surprises later when they eep trying to add definitions :)
2021-08-12T17:09:59 < englishman> yeah i'm not sure what other sampling times he's tried. channel1 is very low impedance output from an opamp but the others are resistance based. except vbat of course that is connected directly
2021-08-12T17:11:33 < englishman> hmm if that is his real code he doesn't init the pll or anything so it would be much slower than 12 MHz
2021-08-12T17:14:48  * karlp shrugs
2021-08-12T17:15:05 < karlp> I jus tknow that I found it to be _really_ sensiitve to getting the sampling time right.
2021-08-12T17:15:32 < karlp> depending on platform, adc runs on it's own 16Mhz clock anywa....
2021-08-12T17:15:41 < karlp> there's a lot of adc clocking options, not up on what f302 does.
2021-08-12T17:16:46 < englishman> i'll ask about all that first
2021-08-12T17:16:49 < englishman> 32MHz xtal
2021-08-12T17:18:55 < englishman> does he have to clear EOC/EOS in software
2021-08-12T17:19:23 < englishman> EOS flag is cleared by the software either by writing 1 to it.
2021-08-12T17:19:26 < englishman> fucking ST docks
2021-08-12T17:19:40 < karlp> no clue, those flags vary a lot based on modes too
2021-08-12T17:19:56 < englishman> EOC flag is cleared by the software either by writing 1 to it or by reading ADCx_DR.
2021-08-12T17:20:11 < mouseghost> adc cock
2021-08-12T17:20:15 < mouseghost>  clock*
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2021-08-12T17:27:25 < qyx> englishman: 100k is quite much for 7u5 sampling
2021-08-12T17:27:52 < englishman> i agree
2021-08-12T17:28:51 < englishman> datasheet says 100k input impedance plus 5pF cap
2021-08-12T17:30:22 < qyx> so it makes a 1:1 divider masuring half the value, doesn't it?
2021-08-12T17:30:40 < englishman> depends on where it wants to float to
2021-08-12T17:30:49 < englishman> for the pullup it should still read 3V, no?
2021-08-12T17:31:06 < qyx> probably, there is an AN for it
2021-08-12T17:31:16 < englishman> oyea?
2021-08-12T17:31:24 < qyx> something like getting the bestest adc accuracy out of stm3ľ adc
2021-08-12T17:31:32 < englishman> AN2834
2021-08-12T17:31:58 < qyx> AN2834
2021-08-12T17:32:01 < qyx> yes
2021-08-12T17:32:38 < qyx> mouseghost: I recommend ^ useful info about the internal ADC
2021-08-12T17:32:59 < mouseghost> thank
2021-08-12T17:33:17 < mouseghost> but im going to sleep now i think and the thing is not my problem
2021-08-12T17:33:25 < mouseghost> so goodnight
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2021-08-12T17:35:14 < qyx> idk I only noticed you were asking too
2021-08-12T17:35:19 < qyx> gn
2021-08-12T17:35:32 < englishman> its 4pm in poland
2021-08-12T17:36:01 < mouseghost> thanks qyx
2021-08-12T17:36:15 < mouseghost> englishman, it is but i have holidays and this is a lazy week and im sleepy
2021-08-12T17:36:34 < mouseghost> soo
2021-08-12T17:36:44 < mouseghost> im going to nap
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2021-08-12T17:37:20 < englishman> well the time constant is 1us
2021-08-12T17:37:35 < englishman> so yeah nanosecond sampling time is 2$hort
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2021-08-12T17:41:53 < englishman> what is it again, negtaive ln of the thingy divided by the other thing
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2021-08-12T18:01:13 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-08-12T18:01:18 < mawk> my manager goes on a 3 weeks vacation
2021-08-12T18:01:26 < mawk> that means 3 weeks vacation for me too
2021-08-12T18:21:42 < Steffanx> Party time
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2021-08-12T19:14:09 < Spirit532> What am I doing wrong here?
2021-08-12T19:14:10 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/jh8To.png
2021-08-12T19:14:22 < Spirit532> I want to start the ADC once and just get samples in my buffer with DMA
2021-08-12T19:14:52 < Spirit532> I've set up a circular peripheral to memory request, then I launch it with HAL_ADC_Start_DMA(&hadc1, ADCSamples, 6);
2021-08-12T19:15:00 < Spirit532> it just runs once and doesn't continue
2021-08-12T19:29:26 < Spirit532> ah for fuck's sake, STUPID BROKEN CUBE
2021-08-12T19:29:41 < Spirit532> it put DMA init *way* after ADC init... so the ADC init code was just calling into the void.
2021-08-12T19:31:04 < zyp> < Spirit532> What am I doing wrong here?
2021-08-12T19:31:07 < zyp> you're using cube
2021-08-12T19:31:15 < Spirit532> listen here you little sh-
2021-08-12T19:31:35 < zyp> you know I'm right
2021-08-12T19:31:42 < Spirit532> there's nothing better
2021-08-12T19:31:52 < Spirit532> and I'm not going back to manually writing HAL or, *shudders*, LL
2021-08-12T19:33:26 < jpa-> registers FTW
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2021-08-12T19:43:48 < qyx> 18:31 < Spirit532> listen here you little sh-
2021-08-12T19:43:58 < qyx> ouch
2021-08-12T19:44:10 < Spirit532> just because he's right doesn't mean he's right
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2021-08-12T19:47:08 < qyx> o what, L5 in stock, hurry hurry
2021-08-12T19:47:51 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KgAxB/Screenshot_2021-08-12_18-47-37.png
2021-08-12T19:55:58 < qyx> looks like L4+ with added security stuff
2021-08-12T19:56:29 < qyx> not even super low power
2021-08-12T20:03:53 < englishman> Lol qty
2021-08-12T20:04:28 < englishman> Isn’t it m33
2021-08-12T20:07:38 < englishman> Secure SysTick
2021-08-12T20:09:24 < englishman> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-M How come this page says m4 has no tcm? Is tcm different from com?
2021-08-12T20:09:41 < englishman> ccm
2021-08-12T20:13:49 < qyx> so if I sum qtys of all L4 on mouser, it is around 600 pieces
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2021-08-12T20:16:31 < qyx> is gd32e230 any good?
2021-08-12T20:16:48 < qyx> mhm M23
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2021-08-12T20:59:27 < englishman> while(ADC_GetFlagStatus(ADC1, ADC_FLAG_EOC) == RESET);
2021-08-12T20:59:32 < englishman> shouldnt that be SET
2021-08-12T20:59:33 < englishman> hehe
2021-08-12T21:01:48 < qyx> idk what RESET means but you should wait until EOC is set
2021-08-12T21:01:57 < qyx> so while EOC is not set
2021-08-12T21:04:00 < englishman> shit right
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2021-08-12T21:05:27 < qyx> but hey isn't there EOS and EOC?
2021-08-12T21:05:42 < englishman> yeah, he was checking only EOC, and also not checking either before starting conversion
2021-08-12T21:06:04 < englishman> or rather, not checking that the ADC is available before changing channel/starting conversion
2021-08-12T21:06:12 < englishman> probably not that but a good idea to add anyway
2021-08-12T21:07:10 < qyx> but in this way of using it it should be enough to check EOC only
2021-08-12T21:10:12 < qyx> checking my code, doing the same, set regular sequence to contain only a single channel
2021-08-12T21:10:15 < qyx> strart the conversion
2021-08-12T21:10:17 < qyx> wait for eoc
2021-08-12T21:10:20 < qyx> and read the result
2021-08-12T21:10:33 < qyx> eoc is reset automatically when reading the data register
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2021-08-12T21:22:26 < englishman> to enable/disable the VBAT/temp sensor channels etc. the ADC has to be off, apparently
2021-08-12T21:22:40 < englishman> ikr? should be e z
2021-08-12T21:22:53 < englishman> he said even with long sampling times, he sometimes had 0 counts
2021-08-12T21:22:58 < englishman> so im guessing software problem
2021-08-12T22:09:05 < Steffanx> PEBKAC. ID10T etc.
2021-08-12T22:09:41 < aandrew> yeah good idea to check that EOC is set (and clear it if not automatic) before setting the go bit and watching for EOC again
2021-08-12T22:09:52 < aandrew> one second, I'll paste my shitty ADC code
2021-08-12T22:10:59 < bitmask> anyone play with bismuth before? I bought a kilo to mess around with :P
2021-08-12T22:13:42 < aandrew> https://pastebin.com/T8ZEjrR3
2021-08-12T22:17:00 < aandrew> the explicit nops in there are just there for be to break on when debugging, they're not otherwise useful
2021-08-12T22:18:01 < aandrew> this worked very well though, selecting channels on an external mux then also grabbing the IC temp and battery voltage, grabbing a bunch of samples of each and averaging before moving to the next, until the list was done, then waiting for the next time
2021-08-12T22:20:16 < aandrew> lmk if you want the ADC_Init and MSPInit functions, I don't think you need them 
2021-08-12T22:30:25 < qyx> Zinc–air batteries cannot be used in a sealed battery holder since some air must come in; the oxygen in 1 liter of air is required for every ampere-hour of capacity used. 
2021-08-12T22:30:33 < qyx> I though they need way more than that
2021-08-12T22:30:49 < qyx> so 1 Ah * 1.45 V
2021-08-12T22:31:52 < qyx> so about 1 m^3 of air for a 1.5 kWh battery
2021-08-12T22:32:00 < englishman> is that for f3 aandrew ?
2021-08-12T22:32:12 < aandrew> englishman: it is... (checking)
2021-08-12T22:32:48 < aandrew> englishman: G071
2021-08-12T22:33:00 < englishman> you clear the ADC ready flag?
2021-08-12T22:33:10 < aandrew> so that's what, M0+
2021-08-12T22:33:53 < aandrew> englishman: in adc_start() I actually stop the ADC, clear the endf sample flag, enable interrupts and start it
2021-08-12T22:34:05 < englishman> yeah i think that is safer
2021-08-12T22:34:07 < englishman> just reset everything
2021-08-12T22:34:17 < aandrew> and after the conversion complete interrupt fires, I just call Start_IT() again
2021-08-12T22:34:36 < englishman> i asked him to do it, the f3 RM states that the vbus/internal temp lines can't be changed while the adc is on
2021-08-12T22:34:39 < englishman> so i have reason
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2021-08-13T00:03:25 < karlp> is there any reason to use mousebites for a panel if v-cuts work?
2021-08-13T00:03:38 < karlp> is it only because the shape is so wonky you _couldn't_ get vcuts to work?
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2021-08-13T00:16:03 < aandrew> generally yes, or you want a nice milled edge 
2021-08-13T00:18:19 < karlp> just wondering if there was anything non-obvious that was a downside of vcuts
2021-08-13T00:18:30 < karlp> they seem superior in eveyrway to mouse bites.
2021-08-13T00:24:39 < karlp> speaking of panelizing things... or.. not...
2021-08-13T00:24:59 < karlp> can you get, the opposite of castellated edge holes?
2021-08-13T00:25:13 < karlp> like, outward protuding bumps with plating.
2021-08-13T00:26:02 < karlp> can be pointy, or circuluar, just looking to mate two pcbs edge on, and connectors are awkward.
2021-08-13T00:26:28 < karlp> you can get hard gold edge connectors, so should be feasible, just a matter of talking to the fab about how small feature son the edge can be right?
2021-08-13T00:26:42 < karlp> though edge connects aren't plated on the sides.
2021-08-13T00:26:47 < karlp> I really want side plating on a pcb
2021-08-13T00:27:51 < karlp> heh, for instance, "This precludes V-cutting scores on plates that require edge plating."
2021-08-13T00:33:14  * karlp decides to jus send the fab a fucking email and ask like a grown up
2021-08-13T00:41:47 < Steffanx> Im proud of you karlp  :P
2021-08-13T00:42:51 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-08-13T00:49:43 < karlp> now I can just drink beer and watch nitflix like a normal quarantine person right?
2021-08-13T00:49:48 < karlp> I've done one thing productive for the day?
2021-08-13T00:50:38 < Steffanx> Iceland is in quarantaine still?
2021-08-13T00:51:04 < Steffanx> Or have you been travelling or have you met jpa- ?
2021-08-13T00:51:25 < karlp> nah, someone in my youngest's kindergatan class got it, so she got put in isolation,
2021-08-13T00:51:52 < karlp> so me and her have moved to the summer house for a week, while wife and elder daughter get to keep living
2021-08-13T00:53:05 < Steffanx> Ah joy
2021-08-13T00:53:07 < karlp> hah, edge plating is like plus 50% pcb cost.
2021-08-13T00:53:36 < karlp> Tick "Yes" to agree PCBGOGO to replace "HASL" to "ENIG" randomly because
2021-08-13T00:53:38 < karlp> of factory fabrication requirments. 
2021-08-13T00:53:46 < karlp> who would ever say no to getting enig back instead of hasl?
2021-08-13T00:53:57 < karlp> (it defaults to _no_)
2021-08-13T00:54:47 < karlp> halogen free pcbs adds a bunch too.
2021-08-13T00:54:56 < karlp> why isn't that fucking standard? what mutant factory is this
2021-08-13T00:58:58 < qyx> hm, I have seen recently that .is have somewhat stronger 3rd wave
2021-08-13T01:00:06 < karlp> we're calling it the fourth, but yes,
2021-08-13T01:00:38 < karlp> and it's just... kinda just happening now, as all the "adults" are vaxed, so we just kinda watched delta develop overseas, and went, "let's.... just do nohting"
2021-08-13T01:00:51 < karlp> remains to be seen is this is actually a good idea.
2021-08-13T01:00:55 < karlp> I'mnot really much of a fan.
2021-08-13T01:03:10 < zyp> karlp, you can obviously get whatever plating you're prepared to pay for, question is what's affordable :)
2021-08-13T01:03:56 < karlp> zyp: on that page at least, it's for "say yes, to allow us ot give you enig instead of the hal you asked for and paid for"
2021-08-13T01:04:00 < karlp> and it defaults to no.
2021-08-13T01:04:19 < zyp> as I understand, in the standard process, plating happens before milling
2021-08-13T01:05:19 < zyp> so plated edges after milling would obviously drive up costs
2021-08-13T01:07:23 < karlp> yeah, it's ok, just glad to konw I'v ealready found what I need.
2021-08-13T01:07:32 < karlp> 99% this will solve my concerns re space, and paying is ok.
2021-08-13T01:07:52 < zyp> :)
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2021-08-13T01:11:30 < englishman> karlp: vcuts have to run the entire length of the pcb normally. if you have shit at angles or weirdly shaped, mousebites to the rescue. also some fabs charge for it. there are some fabs that can do vgroove milling so it doesnt have to go the length of the panel but they will def charge for that
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2021-08-13T01:12:21 < zyp> assembly constraints might also make vcuts impractical
2021-08-13T01:12:39 < zyp> if you've got connectors overhanging the edges
2021-08-13T01:13:08 < englishman> you would have to mill that out anyway no?
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2021-08-13T01:14:11 < zyp> no, I mean, if you have a connector protruding from the edge it'll protrude into the next board
2021-08-13T01:15:10 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G0etN.jpeg <- orbtrace panels are vcut on two sides and routed on the other two partly because of the usb connector protruding, it'd hit parts on the opposing board if they were back to back
2021-08-13T01:15:28 < zyp> and partly because of the rounded corners
2021-08-13T01:17:09 < englishman> yeah but you still could have done mousebites instead of vgroove
2021-08-13T01:17:41 < zyp> yes, of course, but the question was about reasons not to do vcut
2021-08-13T01:18:16 < zyp> if you have connectors on multiple sides, it gets harder to do the half routed half vcut trick as well
2021-08-13T01:18:35 < zyp> could probably do a spacer with vcuts on both sides though, but idk
2021-08-13T01:18:52 < zyp> personally I very much prefer vcuts
2021-08-13T01:32:26 < cluelessperson> mawk, I ordered the SWD off amazon, it should arrive by the 14th.
2021-08-13T01:32:42 < cluelessperson> SWD programmer*
2021-08-13T01:33:32 < karlp> yeah, I know theres places where you _can't_ do vcuts, I was mor ecurous if there was ever a place where you would choose mousebites when you _could_ have vcuts
2021-08-13T01:33:54 < zyp> I wouldn't
2021-08-13T01:34:04 < mawk> cool cluelessperson , which one?
2021-08-13T01:34:07 < mawk> the counterfeit?
2021-08-13T01:34:10 < mawk> the one I recommended?
2021-08-13T01:34:48 < mawk> 14th I get my 2nd covid shot
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2021-08-13T02:08:18 < Steffanx> Dont die mawk 
2021-08-13T02:09:05 < Steffanx> My colleague got pretty sick from the 2nd dose. Must have been  a glitch in the 5G activation system
2021-08-13T02:09:47 < qyx> it is interesting how zyp manages to make such series of his toys
2021-08-13T02:11:12 < qyx> but I am curious what chips will he use to populate those baords
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2021-08-13T03:16:17 < cluelessperson> mawk, not the counterfeit, definitely the one you suggested.
2021-08-13T03:16:49 < cluelessperson> mawk, and congrats on your vaccination.    I was recently looking up how the new ones worked at the behest of some vaccine skeptic asking me a lot of questions.
2021-08-13T03:17:11 < cluelessperson> tldr:  skeptics dont have a leg to stand on.
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2021-08-13T03:26:30 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg
2021-08-13T03:34:25 < jadew> jbc on the cheap it seems
2021-08-13T03:42:25 < mawk> yeah cluelessperson 
2021-08-13T03:42:52 < mawk> I've heard "it mutates your dna" "mrna research is very recent" "you shed spike protein"
2021-08-13T03:43:21 < mawk> it's also a JTAG probe cluelessperson , you can use it for way more than just stm32
2021-08-13T03:43:26 < mawk> you can use it for basically everything embedded
2021-08-13T03:43:36 < mawk> if we forget about obsolete shit like avr or pic
2021-08-13T03:43:43 < mawk> specing will agree
2021-08-13T03:44:13 < englishman> mrna vaccines are pretty fucking amazing
2021-08-13T03:44:44 < mawk> cluelessperson: have you read this? https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
2021-08-13T03:45:45 < cluelessperson> mawk, what I haven't seen explained well, is to the spike proteins contain further mrna?
2021-08-13T03:46:21 < cluelessperson> or is it just a one off dose of some mrna that causes sterilized spike proteins to be made?
2021-08-13T03:46:22 < mawk> what do you mean?
2021-08-13T03:46:29 < mawk> yes, the latter
2021-08-13T03:46:44 < cluelessperson> That's what I figured.
2021-08-13T03:47:01 < mawk> the vaccine hijacks the closest cell protein printer to print a load of viral spike protein for a few hours
2021-08-13T03:47:09 < cluelessperson> mawk, the skeptic however linked me a paper that spike proteins themselves can do biological damage
2021-08-13T03:47:14 < cluelessperson> but I'm extremely doubtful.
2021-08-13T03:47:16 < mawk> and unlike a virus, it doesn't replicate, so once all the mRNA in the vaccine has been used, it stops
2021-08-13T03:47:27 < cluelessperson> ribosomes, right?
2021-08-13T03:47:35 < cluelessperson> yeah makes senes
2021-08-13T03:47:44 < mawk> yeah ribosome is the printer
2021-08-13T03:47:45 < cluelessperson> I imagine it like a recursive function
2021-08-13T03:47:51 < cluelessperson> except the recursion has been stripped
2021-08-13T03:47:54 < mawk> yeah I've heard that spike protein toxicity thing, but yeah I'm a bit skeptical too
2021-08-13T03:48:02 < mawk> given the low amount of people getting ill from the vaccine
2021-08-13T03:48:17 < mawk> yeah well it's the idea of a virus, except it stops at the first recursion step indeed
2021-08-13T03:48:32 < cluelessperson> well you know it's fine when your largest issue is, "some people have allergies"
2021-08-13T03:50:15 < specing> mrna vaccines may cause myocarditis/pericarditis
2021-08-13T03:50:21 < mawk> may
2021-08-13T03:50:24 < mawk> and anyway that's nothing
2021-08-13T03:50:27 < mawk> the clinical outcome is very good
2021-08-13T03:50:37 < mawk> it's not like it's a deadly side effect
2021-08-13T03:50:53 < specing> It's listed as a very rare side effect by EMA
2021-08-13T03:50:58 < mawk> yes
2021-08-13T03:50:59 < specing> yeah
2021-08-13T03:51:10 < mawk> not only it's rare, but also it's not lethal
2021-08-13T03:51:31 < specing> viral vector ones cause thrombocitopenia or whatever it's spelled (lethal) and GBS (cripple for life and lethal)
2021-08-13T03:51:42 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-13T03:51:44 < specing> may cause*
2021-08-13T03:51:52 < mawk> but still very rarely
2021-08-13T03:51:56 < mawk> and anyay nobody uses that anymore since everyone got scared
2021-08-13T03:52:00 < mawk> now it's all pfizer/moderna
2021-08-13T03:52:05 < specing> haha yeah
2021-08-13T03:58:33 < englishman> you can get pericarditis by eating spicy food
2021-08-13T04:08:25 < qyx> you can get dead by touching live wires
2021-08-13T04:09:32 < qyx> and mawk with his mathematic apparatus will agree it is more probable than dying after getting mrna'd
2021-08-13T04:15:22 < mawk> lol
2021-08-13T04:15:30 < mawk> yes
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2021-08-13T04:39:59 < cluelessperson> specing, myocarditis/pericarditis are in response to the immune system becoming inflamed.  That sounds like a pre-existing issue and no a vaccine issue. :P
2021-08-13T04:40:44 < cluelessperson> I like touching live wires
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2021-08-13T05:15:22 < mawk> with rubber shoes and the other hand behind your back?
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2021-08-13T07:18:21 < jpa-> karlp: bending out v-cuts can cause damage to components, though there are special scissors for that also
2021-08-13T07:32:40 < c4017> you can also sneak traces between mousebites, for example to connect jtag chain of the entire panel
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2021-08-13T10:48:40 < jadew> mawk, the fact that the spike protein is damaging means close to nothing
2021-08-13T10:49:56 < jadew> with a real vaccine cells do get infected, unlike with mRNA and they get terminated by antibodies, yielding basically the same effect
2021-08-13T10:50:24 < jadew> the same thing happens when you get the virus, only at a much much higher rate
2021-08-13T10:57:50 < tct> freakin´ A/C no longer worky-worky properly
2021-08-13T10:58:06 < jpa-> sweaty tct
2021-08-13T10:58:16 < tct> sweaty server room.
2021-08-13T10:58:18 < tct> fuck tct
2021-08-13T10:58:22 < tct> the servers man
2021-08-13T10:58:36 < tct> 3kW in a small window-less room.
2021-08-13T10:59:37 < jpa-> what are they serving?
2021-08-13T11:00:10 < tct> customers
2021-08-13T11:00:45 < jpa-> such business
2021-08-13T11:02:14 < tct> not really anymore since covid
2021-08-13T11:02:28 < tct> stuff changed
2021-08-13T11:02:49 < jpa-> so now customers but no business
2021-08-13T11:05:01 < zyp> qyx, parts are already sourced, picked parts that were still available
2021-08-13T11:05:43 < zyp> although I suspect they might not be next run, depending on how fast the first sells
2021-08-13T11:06:25 < jpa-> where can we buy them?
2021-08-13T11:06:49 < zyp> store.zyp.no, eventually
2021-08-13T11:07:02 < jpa-> :)
2021-08-13T11:07:09 < jpa-> have you decided a price yet?
2021-08-13T11:07:38 < tct> attn ##stm32 (that also means Steffanx): tct has some baby incoming.
2021-08-13T11:08:09 < zyp> cool
2021-08-13T11:08:16 < zyp> congrats
2021-08-13T11:08:26 < tct> my sister was so kind to take that burden off of me.
2021-08-13T11:08:32 < tct> so now parents get to do the grand parents thing
2021-08-13T11:08:36 < zyp> wat
2021-08-13T11:08:36 < tct> and I get to not having to have a child
2021-08-13T11:09:00 < jpa-> lul wut, must be the weirdest definition of "tct has baby incoming" :D
2021-08-13T11:09:32 < tct> babies and things related to them are inherently weird.
2021-08-13T11:09:43 < jpa-> your Direct Baby Access is on the wrong bus, the baby will be tightly coupled to your sister
2021-08-13T11:10:13 < tct> exactly!
2021-08-13T11:10:25 < zyp> jpa-, probably on the order of 100€ or so
2021-08-13T11:10:42 < zyp> order of magnitude less than a j-trace :)
2021-08-13T11:10:52 < jpa-> zyp: sounds reasonable, does that include lifetime software support when i'm too dumb to get it to work?
2021-08-13T11:11:04 < zyp> haha
2021-08-13T11:11:47 < jpa-> i assume it should be possible to make it work for fast SWO decoding also (like 100 MHz manchester coding)?
2021-08-13T11:12:23 < zyp> yes, swo is not implemented yet, but it's on the roadmap
2021-08-13T11:12:30 < jpa-> sounds good
2021-08-13T11:18:07 < zyp> not sure how fast we'll be able to push it though
2021-08-13T11:18:51 < jadew> zyp, is that a j-trace alternative?
2021-08-13T11:18:56 < zyp> yes
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2021-08-13T11:21:25 < jadew> nice
2021-08-13T11:22:09 < jpa-> zyp: it would also be cool if the PLLs can be used to support weird baudrates; often i run into that FT232H could do 16 Mbaud but the SWO dividers do not work out 
2021-08-13T11:23:59 < zyp> the problem with the PLLs is that the divisors are not dynamically adjustable without reloading the fpga
2021-08-13T11:24:21 < zyp> so the most realistic solution is a fast clock with a fractional divisor
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2021-08-13T11:28:54 < Steffanx> Yay tct. So it stops with a dog for you :D
2021-08-13T11:29:06 < jpa-> zyp: oh, that's annoying
2021-08-13T11:31:30 < tct> Steffanx, not according to $gf
2021-08-13T11:34:40 < jpa-> but if you make it run at 3477.6 GHz, integer divider will get you all the common STM32 clock frequencies ;)
2021-08-13T11:35:17 < zyp> I figure it should be possible to run a DDR register at 150 MHz or so to oversample at 300 MHz
2021-08-13T11:38:06 < zyp> not sure how much oversampling you need to reliably recover manchester
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2021-08-13T15:04:53 < karlp> jpa-: thanks, mousebites would have to be "cut" rather than bent off too though right? 
2021-08-13T15:05:16 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, though usually the amount of bending needed for mouse bites is smaller
2021-08-13T15:05:28 < jpa-> but they tend to be quite ugly when bent so i would cut them also
2021-08-13T15:06:23 < karlp> c4017: sure I guess, I've normally thought of the testing jigs being individual, so you can test the finished product, but could do panel wide too I guess for some products
2021-08-13T15:06:38 < jpa-> cutting them is easier with random crappy side cutters, v-score cutting is somewhat difficult in my experience and careful bending is easier but somewhat risky
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2021-08-13T15:09:49 < jpa-> most common damage is to MLCCs https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/mlccflexcrackcountermeasuressolutionguide.pdf
2021-08-13T15:19:53 < karlp> nic eread thanks.
2021-08-13T15:25:00 < englishman> i had one board that would tear up nearby vias when breaking mousebites
2021-08-13T15:25:14 < englishman> the inside of the barrel would crack
2021-08-13T15:27:11 < englishman> MEGACAP wow i like it, switching to tdk just for that
2021-08-13T15:55:56 < englishman> wtf dialight, they have completely stopped making components
2021-08-13T15:56:12 < englishman> what is an industrial designer to do
2021-08-13T16:48:41 < karlp> just acquired or what?
2021-08-13T16:48:50 < karlp> I thought they were a pretty big player?
2021-08-13T16:55:20 < englishman> going to industrial lighting
2021-08-13T16:55:30 < englishman> you cant even get component datasheets on their website anymore
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2021-08-13T16:56:55 < englishman> https://www.dialight.com/led-indicator-lights/
2021-08-13T17:12:36 < karlp> website has a link for "signals and components" at the bottom that goes to a new domain? http://www.dialightsignalsandcomponents.com/
2021-08-13T17:16:46 < englishman> :o ok they still have some stuff
2021-08-13T17:17:00 < englishman> they discontinued pretty much everything that i use...
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2021-08-13T20:03:49 < jpa-> meh, no corona
2021-08-13T20:03:56 < jpa-> did i get my nose probed for nothing :<
2021-08-13T20:05:19 < Steffanx> pcr jpa-?
2021-08-13T20:05:22 < Steffanx> now you can travel to dutchland \o/
2021-08-13T20:07:13 < Steffanx> I only did it once and it wasnt as bad as i expected.
2021-08-13T20:07:25 < Steffanx> the nose probing that is.
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2021-08-13T20:14:06 < jpa-> yeah, i'm starting to enjoy it
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2021-08-13T20:19:16 < Steffanx> how often did you get it so far mr jpa-?
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2021-08-13T20:32:15 < jpa-> this was second time
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2021-08-13T22:02:22 < catphish> long time no see sirs
2021-08-13T22:06:41 < qyx> second time jpa-?
2021-08-13T22:07:50 < qyx> I stopped counting the papers after about 10th probing
2021-08-13T22:08:05 < qyx> then they started to send sms instead
2021-08-13T22:08:13 < qyx> about 15 in total it was
2021-08-13T22:20:08 < Steffanx> welcome catphish hows life?
2021-08-13T22:39:15 < mawk> /unban laurenceb
2021-08-13T22:39:23 < mawk> where were you catphish
2021-08-13T22:40:00 < mawk> Steffanx: I got it around 10 times
2021-08-13T22:40:11 < mawk> and around 3 times myself with antigen test
2021-08-13T22:40:42 < mawk> because I like it
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2021-08-13T22:41:40 < Steffanx> fuck the blax, mawk
2021-08-13T22:41:43 < mawk> :(
2021-08-13T22:41:44 < mawk> I like him
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2021-08-13T22:45:15 < catphish> hey, i got a new job in january, has been keeping me a bit too busy
2021-08-13T22:45:28 < mawk> too busy to start irc
2021-08-13T22:45:32 < mawk> I don't buy it
2021-08-13T22:45:34 < mawk> you've been in jail
2021-08-13T22:45:43 < mawk> which government did you topple catphish 
2021-08-13T22:45:53 < catphish> jail would have been more relaxing
2021-08-13T22:52:39 < englishman> whats a general purpose, cheap and available ideal diode or reverse current/voltage limiting IC for 2.8-5.2V, <100mA
2021-08-13T22:52:44 < englishman> i feel like there should be a lot of these
2021-08-13T22:53:00 < englishman> USB ORing basically with some shitty 2.8V source thrown in
2021-08-13T22:53:45 < englishman> LM66100 lets see what that does
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2021-08-13T22:55:52 < englishman> hmm its one of those things that doesnt block reverse current when VIN is unpowered
2021-08-13T22:56:19 < englishman> ooh yes it does
2021-08-13T22:56:38 < englishman> nice
2021-08-13T22:59:25 < englishman> Similar to the Dual Ideal Diode circuit, the Status Output can also be used to control a discrete P-Channel
2021-08-13T22:59:25 < englishman> MOSFET
2021-08-13T22:59:35 < englishman> oh this will simplify the rest of the circuit too
2021-08-13T22:59:36 < englishman> nice
2021-08-13T23:00:14 < englishman> pretty much cheaper than a diode and plenty in stock
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2021-08-13T23:34:08 < zyp> I looked at that, but went with the maxim one instead
2021-08-13T23:34:19 < zyp> max40200
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2021-08-13T23:43:00 < zyp> but I don't do ORing, I do reverse current blocking
2021-08-13T23:48:21 < zyp> catphish, welcome to the new job club
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2021-08-13T23:58:28 < Steffanx> How did you find us when you havent been on irc since januari, catphish ? Still people on freenode?
--- Day changed Sat Aug 14 2021
2021-08-14T00:06:11 < catphish> Steffanx: i called sherlock holmes, he managed to track you guys to this server
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2021-08-14T00:28:37 < Steffanx> Ah great
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2021-08-14T00:44:52 < englishman> yes i guess it is not ORing it is safe ANDing :-)
2021-08-14T00:45:16 < englishman> i'm afraid to use any maxim part
2021-08-14T00:45:36 < englishman> especially as this crap has a 10y+ product lifecycle
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2021-08-14T01:11:44 < qyx> englishman: lm66100
2021-08-14T01:12:22 < qyx> and my new replacement for tps2595 efuse/hot swap controller is STEF05
2021-08-14T01:13:02 < englishman> ty for independent confirmation that LM66100 is awesome
2021-08-14T01:15:21 < qyx> I just ordered some
2021-08-14T01:18:26 < qyx> on a slightly different topic
2021-08-14T01:18:56 < qyx> I am still not quite decided what xonnectors should I use on a DAQ-like bnoard
2021-08-14T01:19:31 < qyx> it should be high density and probably field wireable
2021-08-14T01:19:39 < englishman> xonnectors is the gender neutral term i take it
2021-08-14T01:20:40 < englishman> field wireable as in crimps then
2021-08-14T01:20:54 < qyx> I want it to be poka yoke, so ideally no discrete wire clamps
2021-08-14T01:21:32 < qyx> yeah it looks like idc/crimped type may be reasonable
2021-08-14T01:22:49 < qyx> it is very sad that RJ11 looks feasible
2021-08-14T01:23:56 < englishman> cheap and waterproof
2021-08-14T01:24:40 < qyx> wut
2021-08-14T01:25:22 < qyx> in what universe is RJ11 waterproof
2021-08-14T01:25:30 < qyx> or was taht sarcasm
2021-08-14T01:27:32 < englishman> well there are waterproof ones but the contacts aren't waterproof
2021-08-14T01:30:37 < karlp> why is it sad that rj11 is na option?
2021-08-14T01:32:49 < qyx> because I don't like them
2021-08-14T01:33:17 < qyx> and I am not confident enough they are going to survive some vibration
2021-08-14T01:33:51 < qyx> and single contact only
2021-08-14T01:35:09 < qyx> but otherwise ok, IDC, cheap tools, cheap connectors, crimps including the cable sheath
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2021-08-14T01:39:53 < qyx> DSUB it will be, it is field wireable with soldering iron
2021-08-14T01:41:27 < karlp> man, rj11 way before dsub field soldiering
2021-08-14T01:41:31 < karlp> fuck dsub
2021-08-14T01:41:39  * karlp is just as biased
2021-08-14T01:41:40 < qyx> the whole german type industry is glued together using dsub, m8, m12, cable ties and heatshrinks
2021-08-14T01:41:53 < englishman> not just german
2021-08-14T01:41:54 < karlp> yeah, fuck the metal m8/m12 shit too.
2021-08-14T01:42:04 < karlp> I mena, ok, "robust" 
2021-08-14T01:42:06 < karlp> but. fuck....
2021-08-14T01:42:16 < karlp> splatter that shit everywhere
2021-08-14T01:42:31 < qyx> I like them all, they never fail
2021-08-14T01:42:33 < karlp> instead of cable tie hooks for installations that actuall need it
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2021-08-14T01:43:11 < karlp> "guaranteed to surive 10000000 mating cycles" "99.95 of installations mated less than 5 times..."
2021-08-14T01:44:12 < englishman> designed to be spun around by the cable at high speed then slammed into concrete at the speed of sound as the stoned hungover intern technician installing the shit lets go
2021-08-14T01:45:16 < qyx> I would not laugh, those people manage to do surprising things
2021-08-14T01:46:23 < karlp> mawk presents from iceland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo2OP5P7tp8
2021-08-14T01:47:54 < qyx> I'll wait for zyp, he will agree M12 are great
2021-08-14T01:49:15 < englishman> so if you have an industrial thing with 12-24V power supply and 0-12V analogue output, and you power it with 12V, how close to 12V do you expect that analogue output to get
2021-08-14T01:49:28 < karlp> M12: for when it looks like it might mate, but you hav eno fucking clue until you start counting terminals and reading manuals to check what they wired where this time round
2021-08-14T01:49:42 < karlp> englishman:lol
2021-08-14T01:49:44 < karlp> nice question
2021-08-14T01:49:55 < englishman> :)
2021-08-14T01:49:56 < karlp> you rewrite the specs to 0..10V out
2021-08-14T01:50:05 < englishman> that is what it was before
2021-08-14T01:50:11 < englishman> sales+marketing demanded 12V
2021-08-14T01:50:16 < karlp> why?
2021-08-14T01:50:20 < qyx> wat
2021-08-14T01:50:23 < englishman> reasons
2021-08-14T01:50:31 < qyx> to be incompatible with anything other?
2021-08-14T01:50:34 < karlp> you normally only see 0..5, 0..10 or 0--20mA, 4--20mA?
2021-08-14T01:50:42 < karlp> 12Vwhat?
2021-08-14T01:50:50 < englishman> well the limits/scales are settable by programming the thing
2021-08-14T01:50:56 < englishman> but apparently someone wanted 12V output
2021-08-14T01:51:03 < englishman> this is why i am becoming product manager
2021-08-14T01:51:16 < qyx> filter out that someone
2021-08-14T01:51:25 < englishman> yes
2021-08-14T01:51:30 < englishman> ill sell you an external opamp
2021-08-14T01:51:32 < englishman> for $500
2021-08-14T01:51:44 < englishman> but the product will be 10 V
2021-08-14T01:53:23 < b-rex> i'll sell you a 555 for $495 you can use it as an op amp. it works at 5-15V which is still a better product than the crap englishman is hawking, despite not being advertised specifically as an opamp.
2021-08-14T01:53:31 < englishman> anyway the guy that did that 12V output of course yolo'd the external supply directly into the opamp, and of course used a shitty opamp that clips like 400mV from the rail
2021-08-14T01:53:45 < karlp> and then you use 24V instead..... ?
2021-08-14T01:53:51 < karlp> and the opamp blows up at 15?
2021-08-14T01:53:59 < karlp> yeah, fuck that spec, drop it.
2021-08-14T01:54:09 < englishman> no, but if you wire it up backwards or something, rip $8000 device
2021-08-14T01:55:01 < englishman> i agree, but it is not engineering's choice to make
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2021-08-14T01:58:11 < mawk> nice track karlp 
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2021-08-14T02:31:20 < mawk> with some acid vibes
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2021-08-14T03:40:47 < cluelessperson> mawk, countdown.  My package is out for delivery right now. :D
2021-08-14T03:55:56 < cluelessperson> mawk, my package has arrived!
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2021-08-14T04:16:11 < mawk> nice cluelessperson !
2021-08-14T04:16:19 < mawk> so now without blowing everything up you can wire it up
2021-08-14T04:16:39 < mawk> you need to connect SWD, SWO, ground, possibly VDD_APP
2021-08-14T04:16:43 < mawk> maybe reset line
2021-08-14T04:16:52 < mawk> most important are the first three
2021-08-14T04:17:32 < cluelessperson> they couldn't be bothered with a breakout board.
2021-08-14T04:18:09 < mawk> what do you mean breakout board?
2021-08-14T04:18:17 < mawk> you just connect the pins to your board
2021-08-14T04:18:23 < mawk> they are already broken out
2021-08-14T04:18:38 < mawk> it's like this right cluelessperson ? https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/1200x900/3571-05.jpg
2021-08-14T04:18:43 < mawk> you just need to connect the pins on the left
2021-08-14T04:19:16 < cluelessperson> mawk, yes it is
2021-08-14T04:19:30 < cluelessperson> I'm looking up the pinouts and such.
2021-08-14T04:20:07 < mawk> do you have cables small enough for the pins?
2021-08-14T04:21:09 < mawk> if you want you can buy https://www.adafruit.com/product/1675 and https://www.adafruit.com/product/2094 or https://www.adafruit.com/product/2743 (and then solder 2.54mm headers yourself)
2021-08-14T04:22:26 < mawk> you didn't receive any cable with the programmer though? I'm surprised
2021-08-14T04:23:27 < cluelessperson> I received two cables
2021-08-14T04:23:50 < mawk> one usb and one small cable like the first I just linked?
2021-08-14T04:24:25 < cluelessperson> er, 3
2021-08-14T04:24:47 < cluelessperson> micro usb,  the small one like you linked, and a slightly wider ribbon cable as well
2021-08-14T04:24:54 < mawk> ah
2021-08-14T04:25:12 < mawk> the third one has 2.54mm pitch female connector on one side, and goes into the programmer on the other side?
2021-08-14T04:25:16 < mawk> I suppose that'd be the one you need
2021-08-14T04:26:12 < cluelessperson> nope
2021-08-14T04:26:30 < mawk> what does it look like?
2021-08-14T04:27:42 < cluelessperson> just an extra wide version of what you linked
2021-08-14T04:27:42 < cluelessperson> https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31bI7f7bEIL._AC_.jpg
2021-08-14T04:27:49 < cluelessperson> no 2.54mm stuff
2021-08-14T04:27:57 < cluelessperson> I'm not even familiar with this size.
2021-08-14T04:28:44 < mawk> ah right
2021-08-14T04:28:49 < mawk> it's the same pitch, but 20 pins instead of 10
2021-08-14T04:28:56 < mawk> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/j-link-edu-mini/#package-content
2021-08-14T04:29:22 < cluelessperson> hm, it's 1.27mm apparently.
2021-08-14T04:29:27 < mawk> so this thing will convert to 2.54mm and you can use regular dupont wires: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2094
2021-08-14T04:29:34 < mawk> if you don't already have tiny wires that would fit
2021-08-14T04:29:55 < cluelessperson> I can probably make my own by clipping some strands off something I have
2021-08-14T04:30:03 < cluelessperson> but also order the breakout off amazon
2021-08-14T04:31:12 < mawk> the same off amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Adafruit-1-27mm-Cable-Breakout-ADA2743/dp/B01GQFVGXW/
2021-08-14T04:31:30 < cluelessperson> yeah
2021-08-14T04:31:34 < cluelessperson> this stuff should come bundled.
2021-08-14T04:31:38 < cluelessperson> annoying
2021-08-14T04:31:46 < mawk> yeah
2021-08-14T04:32:04 < mawk> they assume people will use it with boards that have this small "cortex" 2×5 pins connector
2021-08-14T04:32:12 < mawk> as they often do
2021-08-14T04:32:17 < cluelessperson> makes sense
2021-08-14T04:32:17 < mawk> but most of the time don't
2021-08-14T04:43:43 < mawk> my beautiful debugging setup: https://serveur.io/IMG_20210813_142535.jpg
2021-08-14T04:43:49 < mawk> see I have this 2×5 pins connector on the board I'm doing cluelessperson 
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2021-08-14T05:01:25 < cluelessperson> nice
2021-08-14T05:01:34 < cluelessperson> mawk, did you make that?
2021-08-14T05:01:48 < c4017> karlp, depends on production scale. For some of our smaller PCBs, we test them before depanallizing. Another use case is when a single product consists of several PCBs. They can all be panelized and tested together before breaking them apart and assembling
2021-08-14T05:02:29 < mawk> not me personnally cluelessperson but the company I work at yes
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2021-08-14T13:21:25 < jpa-> zapb_: Do you happen to know any exploits in GD32F103 serial bootloader that could bypass readout protection? The SWD-based method works fine, but we need this to read out factory calibration on XDM2041 before flashing custom firmware, so serial port would be more readily accessible.
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2021-08-14T13:31:45 < Steffanx> Hehe cant resist the temptation to work on custom fw, jpa-  
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2021-08-14T15:07:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: actually i found other people who are interested in that also, so i don't have to do it all :)
2021-08-14T15:07:43 < jpa-> reversing has yielded some interesting discoveries, like they've accidentally crossed D+ and D- and that is probably why it has only RS232 even though the pcb has places for USB :)
2021-08-14T15:10:33 < Steffanx> jpa-: any public place where this is discussed?
2021-08-14T15:11:18 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/owon-xdm2041-info/  has something
2021-08-14T15:14:20 < englishman> can't wait for a dmm to come out with nanopb and it becomes so popular it becomes an industry standard feature so jpa is mentioned in the about screen of every dmm made after 2025
2021-08-14T15:16:38 < PaulFertser> optoisolation for SPI can be surprising
2021-08-14T15:16:45 < jpa-> maybe we'll figure out such a great open source DMM firmware that it will become popular by its own merits ;)
2021-08-14T15:17:05 < Streaker> an exploit that bypasses readout protection would be worth a lot of $$$ to the wrong people, would it not? 
2021-08-14T15:17:21 < Steffanx> It has already been done Streaker  
2021-08-14T15:17:35 < jpa-> yeah, it is readily available, but the common method needs to connect the SWD pins
2021-08-14T15:17:50 < jpa-> works well, but it would be nice to be able to get the factory calibration info without having to solder anything
2021-08-14T15:18:02 < Streaker> only GD32 or STM32 as well?
2021-08-14T15:18:13 < jpa-> https://github.com/JohannesObermaier/f103-analysis  them all ;)
2021-08-14T15:19:10 < PaulFertser> Streaker: subscribe to https://blog.zapb.de/ , they might produce some other great content in the future
2021-08-14T15:19:58 < Streaker> RSS?
2021-08-14T15:20:38 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-08-14T15:20:53 < jpa-> if GD32F103 serial bootloader does not have obvious holes, it might be possible to find some buffer overrun or similar in the XDM2041 original firmware
2021-08-14T15:21:50 < PaulFertser> With optocouplers for spi you get MISO delivered with a phase delay, and it can be too big depending on the speed and parts used.
2021-08-14T15:21:55 < englishman> oh wow, gigadevice cloned the readout bug?
2021-08-14T15:23:18 < jpa-> englishman: no, they are actually the only clone maker that didn't clone the exact same bug
2021-08-14T15:23:24 < jpa-> but they have a bit different DMA bug
2021-08-14T15:23:35 < englishman> oh, neato
2021-08-14T15:24:30 < jpa-> also, i took a look at the GD32F103 cube, it actually looks reasonably clean and worthy of using
2021-08-14T15:24:42 < jpa-> which is weeeeird
2021-08-14T15:25:51 < englishman> well they cloned stdperiphlib did they not
2021-08-14T15:26:11 < englishman> they have made some smart decisions
2021-08-14T15:26:22 < jpa-> kind-of, but without as much crazy useless wrappers
2021-08-14T15:29:59 < jpa-> e.g. gpio_init(GPIOA, GPIO_MODE_OUT_PP, GPIO_OSPEED_50MHz, 1)   instead of five lines of GPIO_InitTypeDef GPIO_InitStruct = {0}; GPIO_InitStruct.Pin = 1; GPIO_InitStruct.Mode = GPIO_MODE_OUTPUT_PP; etc.
2021-08-14T15:34:29 < jpa-> PaulFertser: good point, looks like there is about 50 µs of delay from SCK -> MISO at the microcontroller side
2021-08-14T15:34:57 < jpa-> i guess that explains why they have only 2 kHz clock rate for the SPI bus
2021-08-14T15:48:41 < qyx> englishman: they cloned libopencmn3 afaik
2021-08-14T15:48:59 < englishman> oh, that makes sense then
2021-08-14T15:49:23 < englishman> is it time for libopencm3 to change names? surely it works on m4, m33 etc
2021-08-14T15:49:27 < Steffanx> The were inspired by libopencm3 
2021-08-14T15:51:41 < qyx> yeah insiper it is called
2021-08-14T15:51:52 < qyx> *insipred
2021-08-14T15:52:00 < qyx> close enough
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2021-08-14T16:35:14 < Spirit532> this is odd
2021-08-14T16:35:31 < Spirit532> I'm getting like 100mV positive offset on one of the ADC channels of an stm32f411
2021-08-14T16:35:49 < Spirit532> the input is 2085mV, I'm getting 2922mV readings
2021-08-14T16:36:02 < Spirit532> it's a simple voltage divider
2021-08-14T16:37:54 < mawk> how sure are you of your resistor values Spirit532 ?
2021-08-14T16:37:59 < mawk> what's the tolerance
2021-08-14T16:38:27 < Spirit532> I'm literally measuring 2805mV
2021-08-14T16:38:31 < Spirit532> not 2085, fatfingers
2021-08-14T16:38:36 < mawk> ah
2021-08-14T16:38:44 < mawk> the adc is 12 bit right
2021-08-14T16:38:56 < Spirit532> yes
2021-08-14T16:39:41 < mawk> so it's like 2mV of accuracy in theory
2021-08-14T16:39:47 < mawk> more or less
2021-08-14T16:40:02 < Spirit532> -100mV
2021-08-14T16:40:08 < mawk> yes
2021-08-14T16:40:13 < mawk> but I mean it should be around 2mV
2021-08-14T16:40:13 < Spirit532> which is wrong
2021-08-14T16:40:15 < mawk> and it isn't
2021-08-14T16:40:32 < mawk> it's your own board?
2021-08-14T16:40:40 < mawk> is AGND same as GND?
2021-08-14T16:42:15 < Spirit532> no currents floating around to offset
2021-08-14T16:42:30 < jpa-> qyx: oh, yeah, i can see the similarities now
2021-08-14T16:42:31 < Spirit532> but this is DGND/AGND
2021-08-14T16:44:02 < jpa-> qyx: maybe someone should copy gigadevice's library as a new libopencm3, to finally rid it of lgpl
2021-08-14T16:44:38 < mawk> what's wrong with lgpl
2021-08-14T16:44:52 < Spirit532> infectious
2021-08-14T16:45:00 < jpa-> mawk: it's a hard sell to paying customers in consulting business
2021-08-14T16:45:09 < jpa-> nothing wrong for hobby projects
2021-08-14T16:45:38 < jpa-> eg. chibios is fine, because there is a choice of paid license
2021-08-14T16:59:37 < mawk> but the point of lgpl versus gpl is to be able to do commercial stuff
2021-08-14T16:59:44 < mawk> as long as you can relink
2021-08-14T17:00:08 < mawk> which may not be ideal after all
2021-08-14T17:07:21 < jpa-> which is crazy difficult to arrange in embedded world
2021-08-14T17:10:03 < PaulFertser> You just provide source code for the whole project but prohibit it redistribution, modification etc. So make it "open source" but not free software.
2021-08-14T17:10:12  * karlp lols at expanding gd32's world backwards :)
2021-08-14T17:10:13 < karlp> I like it.
2021-08-14T17:10:51 < karlp> lgpl is a large part of my increasing reluctance to spend any time on locm3
2021-08-14T17:19:49 < karlp> the people who were always most vocally on the gpl end of it refusing any hint of a linking exception have completely stopped contributing, so a bit annoying.
2021-08-14T17:27:20 < PaulFertser> Why providing obfuscated source code is not a solution for commercial customers?
2021-08-14T17:28:45 < jpa-> 1) why would anyone go to that trouble when they can just pick another library, libopencm3 is not that much better than the alternatives
2021-08-14T17:29:08 < jpa-> 2) it would make copying firmware to other devices easier
2021-08-14T17:30:12 < PaulFertser> But if it's illegal it shouldn't matter much if easy or not.
2021-08-14T17:30:19 < jpa-> :D
2021-08-14T17:30:47 < jpa-> maybe if the company making it has bazillions of dollars to spend on lawyers
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2021-08-14T18:12:11 < englishman> lgpl requires you to release binaries? what don't i understand? i thought you can use unmodified libraries as you wish, with disclosure and link to the project.
2021-08-14T18:13:01 < englishman> obfuscated source code...?
2021-08-14T18:13:24 < Steffanx> You have to be able to relink the library (or something)
2021-08-14T18:13:53 < englishman> that kind of makes it useless no?
2021-08-14T18:14:19 < englishman> i thought you can just publish modified source/link to original source if unmodified
2021-08-14T18:17:35 < englishman> so libopencm3 should be compiling linkable binaries
2021-08-14T18:18:08 < englishman> sounds like a headache
2021-08-14T18:18:21 < englishman> looks like i completely misunderstood LGPL
2021-08-14T18:19:05 < jpa-> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LGPLStaticVsDynamic
2021-08-14T18:19:43 < englishman> that's not so bad for us, but i can see it being a killer for people who encrypt their binaries
2021-08-14T18:19:47 < englishman> which we might do eventually
2021-08-14T18:22:05 < jpa-> yeah, your understanding would be "gpl3 with linking exception" which would make much more sense
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2021-08-14T18:23:23 < mawk> englishman lgpl mandates you to allow users to relink with the lgpl'd lib as they want
2021-08-14T18:23:45 < mawk> under linux that means be able to swap out a .so which is easy enough
2021-08-14T18:23:52 < mawk> but if it's static link it's harder
2021-08-14T18:24:41 < mawk> theoretically you'd provide your code pre-link-step as a single .o and users can finalize linking with their version of the lgpl'd lib
2021-08-14T18:24:44 < englishman> yes like in embedded
2021-08-14T18:25:02 < englishman> im sure many meetings with the VPs will be had
2021-08-14T18:25:07 < englishman> to explain all the technical details
2021-08-14T18:25:12 < mawk> but it has security implications in embedded
2021-08-14T18:25:13 < englishman> or you can just not do that
2021-08-14T18:25:24 < mawk> if you allow to swap out the scheduler for instance
2021-08-14T18:25:33 < mawk> then a user can use it to extract secrets or something
2021-08-14T18:31:37 < karlp> gpl with linking exception would arguably have been a better choice than lgpl.  the library had originally been gpl, and lgpl was the (shitty) compromise.
2021-08-14T18:33:40 < karlp> providing a .o/bin of "your" code and "some script of some sort" that relinks the "new, user improved/fixed" lgpl library is one way.
2021-08-14T18:34:06 < karlp> just making your own app open source is another.
2021-08-14T18:35:14 < karlp> another option is :https://imgflip.com/i/5jlc0w
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2021-08-14T18:40:42 < englishman> i can't really see any sane company doing that
2021-08-14T18:41:07 < englishman> imagine having to release a script to compile your own libopencm3 linked to juicero binaries
2021-08-14T18:41:32 < karlp> well, remember you dont actually _have_ to, you just have ot promise to provide it on request ....
2021-08-14T18:41:52 < karlp> and of course, the copyright notices in the literature with the promise...
2021-08-14T18:43:29 < karlp> but yes, I don't imagine there's much legit corporate use of locm3.
2021-08-14T18:46:09 < sauce> yeah simply not complying with the requirements of the gpl for a firmware distribution is extremely typical
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2021-08-14T18:55:07 < sauce> also if the firmware is not user-upgradeable i am pretty sure there is still ambiguity as to whether shipping a device with it constitutes distribution at all
2021-08-14T18:55:34 < sauce> there is a difference in language between gplv2 and v3 on that point as well
2021-08-14T18:56:30 < sauce> the fsf has demonstrated repeatedly that they don't give a shit about blobs that aren't user-facing
2021-08-14T18:57:52 < karlp> defining user upgradeable is fun too...
2021-08-14T18:59:21 < sauce> well i was referring to whether an image is provided for download on a webpage or whatever in which case it's definitely distributed
2021-08-14T18:59:45 < sauce> but yeah i guess if the device phones home itself, particularly with authentication it could be a different story
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2021-08-14T20:01:05 < aandrew> lol juicero
2021-08-14T20:01:06 < qyx> karlp: what would you like instead? bsd-style?
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2021-08-14T20:03:33 < qyx> oh reading now
2021-08-14T20:08:36 < jpa-> gd32cube is bsd-licensed
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2021-08-14T20:14:08 < englishman> interesting scales on that owon
2021-08-14T20:14:34 < englishman> 50mV scale with 0.1% +10% accuracy...
2021-08-14T20:14:47 < englishman> 500uA scale with 20% accuracy...
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2021-08-14T20:15:50 < englishman> oh of range
2021-08-14T20:16:02 < englishman> still that's... weird
2021-08-14T20:17:26 < englishman> a 100mV measurement would be +- 25 mV
2021-08-14T20:18:33 < englishman> 10 mA measurement +- 10 mA
2021-08-14T20:19:43 < englishman> not sure your calibration info will be very important
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2021-08-14T21:36:18 < aandrew> ugh
2021-08-14T21:36:39 < Steffanx> Cant be right
2021-08-14T21:36:44 < aandrew> I think anyone who writes about themselves as "a creative" should probably self-immolate
2021-08-14T21:38:03 < aandrew> https://mega.nz/file/8dNBHABR#ULLTMvNmnqFaXrzVOrOniRL58i1gXNu6kLCwCkX44XA
2021-08-14T21:38:09 < aandrew> wow, an entire book on PWM
2021-08-14T21:43:48 < Steffanx> arent you a creating aandrew?
2021-08-14T21:43:51 < Steffanx> *creative
2021-08-14T21:45:53 < aandrew> nope
2021-08-14T21:46:01 < aandrew> and I certainly never ever refer to myself as one
2021-08-14T21:46:46 < Steffanx> whokay, i can't be bothered by it
2021-08-14T21:50:59 < englishman> it’s from the data sheet stefs
2021-08-14T21:51:37 < Steffanx> i know englishman
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2021-08-14T21:55:43 < Steffanx> not sure how you get to 25 mV though.
2021-08-14T21:55:59 < Steffanx> oh nevermind. i misread something
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2021-08-14T22:48:53 < qyx> so, does anyone have a gd32 example using OSS tools?
--- Day changed Sun Aug 15 2021
2021-08-15T00:09:58 < Steffanx> No
2021-08-15T00:10:51 < karlp> qyx: definitely bsd2, mit, isc or apache2 if I had my way.  lgpl or gpl with linking exception owuld be acceptable.  for _me_ that is :)
2021-08-15T00:19:06 < qyx> Steffanx: you are not being helpful today
2021-08-15T00:19:54 < Steffanx> How helpful were you today?
2021-08-15T00:22:03  * qyx just checked if he was grumpy today
2021-08-15T00:24:58 < Steffanx> And.. yes?
2021-08-15T00:25:27 < qyx> no, neutral on my side
2021-08-15T00:35:26 < zyp> qyx, I've got some gd32v code for laks :p
2021-08-15T00:36:02 < zyp> but you presumably want something using gd32 vendor libs?
2021-08-15T00:55:28 < qyx> I basically need to get a rtos working with spi, can, gpio and a unch of other stuff
2021-08-15T00:56:15 < qyx> I'll check vendor libs, hopefully they work with arm-gcc
2021-08-15T00:56:38 < qyx> mhm and freertos
2021-08-15T00:56:56 < qyx> but I have no idea where to start
2021-08-15T00:57:09 < qyx> gd32e230 is available on tme
2021-08-15T00:58:55 < zyp> personally I'd start by making a device definition for gd32e230 for laks and call it a day
2021-08-15T00:59:20 < qyx> wait waht it is $4.50 on lcsc
2021-08-15T00:59:33 < qyx> around 1e on tme
2021-08-15T01:00:12 < qyx> fuk those prices, are they nuts
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2021-08-15T01:05:59 < mawk> you tried zephyr qyx ?
2021-08-15T01:11:59 < qyx> yes I gave it one day of my precious time
2021-08-15T01:12:37 < kakium69> englishman: you call traffic lights robots?
2021-08-15T01:14:33 < mawk> was it worth it qyx ??
2021-08-15T01:15:41 < Steffanx> Ofcourse kakium69  .
2021-08-15T01:17:40 < kakium69> interesting
2021-08-15T01:18:44 < Steffanx> He loved it, mawk.
2021-08-15T01:20:32 < Steffanx> So yes
2021-08-15T01:22:08 < qyx> mawk: no.
2021-08-15T01:25:52 < mawk> :(
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2021-08-15T01:38:25 < karlp> I was not impressed with zephyr either.
2021-08-15T01:38:38 < karlp> it all _sounds_ good
2021-08-15T01:38:53 < karlp> but the minute you leave the reservation it became very much the wild west.
2021-08-15T01:39:11 < karlp> and a lot of "what do you mean, you arne't using one of the boards we'r eusing internally here at mbed?"
2021-08-15T01:46:50 < zyp> some of the stuff at work is using zephyr
2021-08-15T01:47:03 < zyp> haven't been involved in it yet, but I probably will soon
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2021-08-15T02:22:29 < jadew> jeez, Haiti got hit by a 7.2 quake
2021-08-15T02:23:23 < mawk> our main product is transitionning to mbed too karlp 
2021-08-15T02:23:30 < mawk> and yeah we lacked a lot of drivers and support for stuff
2021-08-15T02:24:07 < PaulFertser> So why mbed then?
2021-08-15T02:24:07 < mawk> so we started making PRs for zephyr to add stuff like deepsleep/tickless kernel or RTC support or whatever
2021-08-15T02:24:59 < mawk> oooooooo
2021-08-15T02:25:00 < mawk> not mbed
2021-08-15T02:25:02 < mawk> mbed is for kids
2021-08-15T02:25:05 < mawk> I mean zephyr
2021-08-15T02:25:17 < PaulFertser> Zephyr makes sense, yes. I was surprised about mbed :)
2021-08-15T02:25:22 < mawk> I read mbed somewhere and my brain mixed it up
2021-08-15T02:27:09 < PaulFertser> So what RTOS was used before Zephyr and what did you find so nice about the latter that it was worth the additional effort to extend it?
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2021-08-15T02:45:10 < aandrew> I’ve taken no time to look at zephyr, what advantage does it have over regular old freertos?
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2021-08-15T08:41:11 < qyx> aandrew: zephyr wants to be a full blown os/framework, freertos is just scheduler and a bunch of optional middleware
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2021-08-15T15:45:49 < karlp> aandrew: just comes from a diferent team :) and it's not written in polish style so some people just instantly go "oh, this code is better"
2021-08-15T15:46:44 < karlp> also they use "device trees" so some people htink that's perfect, but it's not the _same_ device trees as linux, so you're just learning another indirection layer, that onyl matters if the person writing theoretical multi platform zephyr apps, instead of building a product that you need an rtos for...
2021-08-15T15:47:08 < karlp> also.... if you thought hal had layers.....
2021-08-15T15:47:27 < karlp> zephyr driver layers use hal internally...
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2021-08-15T16:54:58 < mawk> Steffanx- 
2021-08-15T16:55:06 < mawk> I haxxored the coronacheck app
2021-08-15T16:55:12 < mawk> to get the qrcode before the 2weeks after the shot
2021-08-15T16:55:31 < mawk> I bypassed the date check with advanced techniques
2021-08-15T16:55:40 < mawk> also known as changing the date on my phone
2021-08-15T16:57:05 < specing> hahaah
2021-08-15T16:57:26 < specing> But, isn't the date also in the qr code?
2021-08-15T16:57:34 < specing> along with a signature that you cannot forge?
2021-08-15T16:57:36 < mawk> probably
2021-08-15T16:57:44 < mawk> so that's why it's stupid they don't show it earlier
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2021-08-15T17:12:41 < Steffanx-> I know this mawk
2021-08-15T17:12:51 < Steffanx-> Now download:
2021-08-15T17:13:40 < Steffanx-> Corona scanner and check it
2021-08-15T17:14:11 < Steffann> You can do it mawk.
2021-08-15T17:14:46 < jpa-> which one of you is the nice twin and which one is the evil one?
2021-08-15T17:15:11 < Steffanx-> jpa- is my hero
2021-08-15T17:18:31 < Steffann> All of me are nice, jpa-  
2021-08-15T17:19:48 < qyx> how is it possible Microchip cortices are much more available than stm32
2021-08-15T17:20:23 < qyx> "samd" on mouser gives 147 models in stock out of aboit 470
2021-08-15T17:20:33 < jpa-> maybe they have more models that no-one wants
2021-08-15T17:22:19 < Steffann> And how much stock is there qyx? 1-2?
2021-08-15T17:25:41 < kraiskil> samd always makes me think arduino. I can't remember samd being used in anything except in that.
2021-08-15T17:26:37 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/microchip-technology/ATSAMD21G18A-AUT/ATSAMD21G18A-AUTCT-ND/4878879  but the arduino atsamd is out of stock
2021-08-15T17:30:15 < kraiskil> with a one year lead time :D
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2021-08-15T18:11:49 < qyx> Steffann: many
2021-08-15T18:12:12 < qyx> 200-500 per model
2021-08-15T18:12:52 < qyx> with stm32 you get singles, and even those are wlcsp or 0.5mm bga
2021-08-15T18:13:39 < qyx> no kidding, I'll start using esp32
2021-08-15T18:13:59 < qyx> because CAN, wifi, much ram, cheap, available
2021-08-15T18:40:22 < zyp> I got a couple of those riscv esp32s the other day, need to find some time to play with them
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2021-08-15T19:29:44 < qyx> are there riscv esp32?
2021-08-15T19:29:57 < qyx> weren't they gd32v?
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2021-08-15T19:43:42 < jpa-> heh, there is now an insurance i can buy in case i get cyber bullied
2021-08-15T19:44:09 < jpa-> it will cover psychiatric treatment when tct makes me cry
2021-08-15T19:47:22 < specing> does it cover PTSD by laurencer?
2021-08-15T19:48:25 < jpa-> hmm, probably not if it is not targeted
2021-08-15T19:49:45 < t4nk_fn> jpa-, YOU LOOK FUNNY!!! freak!
2021-08-15T19:50:32  * t4nk_fn packs his toothbrush, ready to go to jail
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2021-08-15T20:07:45 < Steffann> Welcome tct
2021-08-15T20:07:55 < Steffann> You're not being helpful
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2021-08-15T21:07:35 < karlp> esp32 is a ratherdiltured brand name now, somewhat like stm32 i guess
2021-08-15T21:23:17 < karlp> well, probably a good brand name, but diluted compard to when it used to be a chip name...
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2021-08-15T21:24:49 < BrainDamage> maybe the 32 is the magic part, and we'll see in future chips that are 64 bit and have 32 in the name
2021-08-15T21:27:08 < zyp> qyx, yes: https://www.espressif.com/en/products/socs/esp32-c3
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2021-08-15T22:15:57 < qyx> veverak: any idea what pcb manufacturers in .cz currently offer the pool service? (besides pragoboard)
2021-08-15T22:16:10 < qyx> zyp: oh, I didn't know
2021-08-15T22:16:20 < zyp> they are pretty new
2021-08-15T22:16:52 < zyp> saw they were available on aliexpress recently, so I got a couple of boards on my desk now, but I haven't had time to play with them yet
2021-08-15T22:20:32 < qyx> I need to find a reasonable replacement for my DAQ thing
2021-08-15T22:20:42 < qyx> with CAN
2021-08-15T22:21:20 < qyx> I am not very happy with redoing the design every time I manage to get some stm32
2021-08-15T22:21:32 < qyx> different model every time I order them
2021-08-15T22:22:14 < qyx> I may stil bit bang CAN on AVR though
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2021-08-15T22:35:34 < veverak> qyx: gatema
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2021-08-15T22:38:37 < cluelessperson> question, I'm using openocd to program a stm32,  what would be the command to remove RDP?
2021-08-15T22:44:02 < kakium69> it's pitch dark outside wtf
2021-08-15T22:45:16 < kakium69> it's insane how it can be totally dark in the night
2021-08-15T22:45:44 < kakium69> at night*
2021-08-15T22:47:51 < cluelessperson> no moon?
2021-08-15T22:47:58 < kakium69> no moon
2021-08-15T22:54:21 < qyx> no sun?
2021-08-15T22:54:26 < qyx> veverak: thanks
2021-08-15T22:56:44 < kakium69> yeah
2021-08-15T22:56:48 < kakium69> where is the sun
2021-08-15T22:56:50 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-15T23:06:47 < Steffann> Where is kakium69 ?
2021-08-15T23:06:55 < kakium69> here
2021-08-15T23:07:24 < kakium69> usually I am where I am
2021-08-15T23:22:14 < kakium69> should I be there?
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2021-08-15T23:55:21 < Steffann> Yes, like the sun and the moon kakium69 
2021-08-15T23:55:36 < Steffann>  🌑 
2021-08-15T23:56:53 < emeb_mac> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnPHvOchr4
2021-08-15T23:58:56 < Steffann> What to say emeb_mac .
2021-08-15T23:59:18 < emeb_mac> November
2021-08-15T23:59:54 < Steffann> Spotify. 
--- Day changed Mon Aug 16 2021
2021-08-16T00:02:52 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgFN5ohct4k some finnish musics
2021-08-16T00:03:07 < kakium69> psytrance kinda
2021-08-16T00:04:27 < kakium69> artist name translates as "organic acid"
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2021-08-16T00:28:26 < emeb_mac> psytrance very
2021-08-16T00:29:44 < emeb_mac> other finnish music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsyxXNBf7vQ
2021-08-16T00:30:21 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-16T00:30:33 < kakium69> you posted this once
2021-08-16T00:30:40 < emeb_mac> I guess I did. 
2021-08-16T00:30:44 < emeb_mac> ancient stuff
2021-08-16T00:30:50 < kakium69> it was on some collection cd you had
2021-08-16T00:30:55 < emeb_mac> yep
2021-08-16T00:31:01 < emeb_mac> barramundi 3
2021-08-16T00:34:20 < emeb_mac> got a lot of Lackluster/Esa Ruoho too
2021-08-16T00:35:48 < emeb_mac> I guess that's ancient now too.
2021-08-16T00:37:40 < karlp> nice art of noise link emeb, perfection.gif
2021-08-16T00:39:11 < karlp> 77 vies on that nemesis track. that's pretty out there
2021-08-16T00:39:30 < karlp> barramundi sampler sounds like an australian production
2021-08-16T00:41:51 < karlp> hrm belgium apparently
2021-08-16T00:43:49 < emeb_mac> karlp: there was a time when I was buying lots of electronic music CDs. lots of collections like that.
2021-08-16T00:51:33 < karlp> lots of them were pretty mediocre iirc from my own time
2021-08-16T00:51:58 < karlp> occasional gems from an name that was unknown, pre-ish-internet and no wya to find any more
2021-08-16T00:52:14 < karlp> back whe na record label name might be enough to go an dbuy something :)
2021-08-16T00:57:51 < emeb_mac> yup - lots of garbage, lots of dead ends.
2021-08-16T01:07:40 < karlp> this might suit, a couple of years later, but like all good things, theft from the late 60s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo2OP5P7tp8
2021-08-16T01:07:56 < karlp> oh, I already pasted it for mawk though, sorry about the repost
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2021-08-16T01:09:17 < karlp> maybe this is more era appropriate, cos that was alsothe era of infinite house remixes of anything popular... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmVLdH4S42Q
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2021-08-16T01:17:55 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHTQ8r9pQU
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2021-08-16T02:06:45 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.imgur.com/idvdwfY.mp4  nearing the end of this perticular never ending nightmare!
2021-08-16T02:21:22 < kakium69> nice
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2021-08-16T02:23:46 < kakium69> Mangy_Dog: when the ship is ready for trials?
2021-08-16T02:25:17 < Mangy_Dog> eventually :p
2021-08-16T02:32:11 < kakium69> you need to hope for break through in emdrive project
2021-08-16T02:32:22 < kakium69> you need couple big units
2021-08-16T02:34:47 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2021-08-16T02:38:32 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHAPXlVq5lk have you seen this star trek fan film slash parody?
2021-08-16T02:39:45 < Mangy_Dog> yep
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2021-08-16T10:03:52 < jpa-> hmm, so now all my projects are based on unavailable parts
2021-08-16T10:04:19 < jpa-> i wonder if this is really go on until 2023 or who knows how long
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2021-08-16T11:56:15 < Steffann> Time to do what qyx does: redesign  it, to find out those new parts will be unavailable by the time youre done 🤐
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2021-08-16T13:25:25 < sauce> kinda hard to redesign something without any decoupling caps
2021-08-16T13:33:06 < Steffann> I think jpa- has great decoupling capacity 
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2021-08-16T14:44:19 < mawk> calm down Steffann 
2021-08-16T14:44:47 < mawk> jpa- wants to decouple in the privacy of his bedroom, you shouldn't out him like that
2021-08-16T14:47:44 < jpa-> our bedroom hasn't had privacy in years
2021-08-16T15:05:24 < Steffann> Mawk: this is what I think. Not what I know ;)
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2021-08-16T16:47:21 < englishman> qyx: so Ircb, the reverse threshold current of LM66100 is 0.5 A
2021-08-16T16:47:29 < englishman> doesnt that seem a little high
2021-08-16T16:57:38 < qyx> wwat
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2021-08-16T17:07:37 < jpa-> englishman: that can be adjusted by adding an external series resistor between CE and VOUT
2021-08-16T17:07:49 < jpa-> but yeah, it gets less ideal then :)
2021-08-16T17:08:07 < englishman> i mean, the properties of CE should turn off the fet well before 0.5A is possible
2021-08-16T17:08:26 < englishman> i wonder why Ircb is even given as a spec
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2021-08-16T17:09:10 < englishman> if Vin is allowed to float up to Vout will it ever turn off?
2021-08-16T17:09:31 < englishman> i don't want my connectors to be charged up
2021-08-16T17:10:21 < jpa-> it turns off when there is 80mV difference between Vin and CE; the internal switch has 80 milliohms; thus the max. 1A reverse threshold spec
2021-08-16T17:11:57 < aandrew> weird. I have three different TPS799xx LDOs connected to the same 3.3V incoming power (2.8V, 1.8V, 1.2V) -- all three are reading low but no significant current draw on any of the rails
2021-08-16T17:12:19 < aandrew> 2.8 is reading ~2.4V, 1.8 is 1.3ish, 1.2 is 0.9
2021-08-16T17:12:36 < jpa-> maybe your meter is broken or your other probe is connected to 0.3V rail
2021-08-16T17:12:38 < aandrew> all three have 10uF bulk capacitance on the output, board cleaned well, nothing getting warm
2021-08-16T17:13:06 < aandrew> heh yeah thought it might have been ground, but meter is good (Fluke 89) and reads 3.3V just fine
2021-08-16T17:13:19 < aandrew> I wonder if they're doing something funny at no load
2021-08-16T17:13:32 < aandrew> I should put 100R on each of them
2021-08-16T17:14:19 < jpa-> spec says up to 5% drift if output current less than 500µA, but you are getting 20% drift
2021-08-16T17:14:48 < jpa-> did you measure that the regulator ground pins read 0?
2021-08-16T17:15:50 < jpa-> and that EN pin is not floating by any chance
2021-08-16T17:19:14 < englishman> so i can really only use this LM66100 if my power supplies are of quite different voltages
2021-08-16T17:19:22 < englishman> with CE connected to VOUT
2021-08-16T17:23:50 < jpa-> well, 80mV different voltages; but if they cannot sink current, it will never detect reverse current
2021-08-16T17:27:48 < englishman> if they can't sink current, then there is no problem with reverse current
2021-08-16T17:28:15 < englishman> i just dont want my connectors floating up to 5V
2021-08-16T17:28:29 < jpa-> yeah, but if the voltages have large differences, you could burn things out with minimal currents
2021-08-16T17:29:01 < jpa-> why not just normal schottky diodes?
2021-08-16T17:29:20 < englishman> too much drop, it's some crappy complex ORing
2021-08-16T17:29:33 < englishman> which is already way simpler than what the last guy did
2021-08-16T17:29:39 < jpa-> bunch of fets and a greenpak to wiggle them :)
2021-08-16T17:29:54 < englishman> because it has to charge a battery as well, but also deal with other stuff etc etc boring
2021-08-16T17:30:17 < englishman> so TI calls this an ideal diode but their ideal diode could conduct 1A in reverse
2021-08-16T17:31:03 < jpa-> as i understand it, it is mainly for reverse polarity protection
2021-08-16T17:35:27 < jpa-> you would really need some kind of solution where conduction is normally through a schottky, and only when forward voltage is >= 80mV, it starts conducting; instead of that LM66100 which conducts until backward voltage is >= -80mV
2021-08-16T17:35:29 < englishman> LM73100 looks much better
2021-08-16T17:36:13 < englishman> no stock lololo
2021-08-16T17:37:21 < jpa-> > 2021
2021-08-16T17:37:26 < jpa-> > expects to be able to buy parts
2021-08-16T17:37:45 < jpa-> i thought every EE discussion is just a thought experiment at this point
2021-08-16T17:38:00 < englishman> AP22916
2021-08-16T17:38:06 < englishman> lots 'o' stock
2021-08-16T17:38:22 < englishman> Truly Reverse Current Blocking (TRCB)
2021-08-16T17:39:06 < englishman> i previously used DPS1133 which was one of the only switches i found (24V) that still did reverse current/voltage blocking with Vin at 0V. plenty of shit only works with Vin at 5V or higher. wtf
2021-08-16T17:39:27 < englishman> so of course the inputs drift up
2021-08-16T17:39:33 < englishman> then you have 20V on your usb port
2021-08-16T17:40:35 < aandrew> jpa-: EN is absolutely not floating, but I will verify GND pin, good point
2021-08-16T17:47:00 < englishman> TXS0102, only DCT available lol
2021-08-16T18:23:47 < qyx> englishman: oh wait, power oring with lm66100 is quite complex, there were some weird requirements wrt power supply voltages
2021-08-16T18:24:06 < englishman> yeah.
2021-08-16T18:24:09 < qyx> or the relation thereof
2021-08-16T18:24:47 < qyx> I ended using lm66100 + a single mosfet
2021-08-16T18:41:30 < englishman> i'll get a demoboard and fuck with it
2021-08-16T18:41:33 < englishman> or better yet
2021-08-16T18:41:41 < englishman> hand it off to a lackey
2021-08-16T18:44:34 < aandrew> englishman: actually I have an alternate
2021-08-16T18:48:47 < aandrew> englishman: PI4ULS3V302XVEX is a pin-compatible replacement
2021-08-16T18:49:14 < englishman> oh neato
2021-08-16T18:49:21 < aandrew> yeah there are two popular pinouts
2021-08-16T18:49:42 < aandrew> from what I could find, only this Pericom one and the TXS0102 share this one, and all the others have a different one
2021-08-16T19:02:21 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/D6oOYrk nearly done with UIs... one more after this before i do the EMRG sequince. And still got some more code refinement and some controls like volume... Tiny worried. I only have 20k of program space left.!
2021-08-16T19:07:10 < aandrew> that's pretty cool, I never could make UIs
2021-08-16T19:08:21 < Mangy_Dog> uis are...... easyish
2021-08-16T19:23:55 < Steffann> For you.
2021-08-16T19:24:12 < mawk> just do JAVA
2021-08-16T19:24:17 < mawk> and make pretty UIs
2021-08-16T19:24:20 < mawk> like ST
2021-08-16T19:24:24 < Mangy_Dog> well my background is graphics
2021-08-16T19:24:28 < Mangy_Dog> so UI feels natural
2021-08-16T19:24:47 < Mangy_Dog> in the end UIs is just visual scripting
2021-08-16T19:28:31 < qyx> englishman: tps25940 is another one I used, ot has true reverse block
2021-08-16T19:28:35 < qyx> but unobtainable now
2021-08-16T19:31:07 < mawk> weather is stormy Steffanx- 
2021-08-16T19:33:51 < Steffann> Yes, dutch weathet
2021-08-16T19:33:53 < Steffann> R
2021-08-16T19:40:12 < jpa-> though UIs that just look cool is a bit different than UIs that are actually useful
2021-08-16T19:42:05 < Steffann> Im very good at telling you something is wrong, not nice etc. But cannot tell you how to fix it.
2021-08-16T19:42:26 < jpa-> but do you know when they are right?
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2021-08-16T19:42:30 < qyx> jpa-: which category contains JAVA UIs?
2021-08-16T19:42:48 < jpa-> qyx: neither
2021-08-16T19:42:52 < Steffanx> When it "feels" right jpa-. 
2021-08-16T19:43:15 < Steffanx> What is a JAVA UI?
2021-08-16T19:43:39 < jpa-> stm32cube
2021-08-16T19:43:41 < qyx> the swt/swing thing or how is that called
2021-08-16T19:43:46 < qyx> yeah for example
2021-08-16T19:45:38 < Steffanx> Thats a swt/swing UI. Not JAVA.
2021-08-16T19:45:57 < qyx> k then
2021-08-16T19:46:01 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-08-16T19:46:04  * karlp lols
2021-08-16T19:46:15 < Steffanx> Youre not being useful today, qyx 
2021-08-16T19:46:38 < karlp> what other java gui toolkits are even used?
2021-08-16T19:46:53 < qyx> all my positive energy was consumed by picking up the right (tm) ideal diode
2021-08-16T19:46:54 < karlp> and ar etheynot all wrappers on top anyway?
2021-08-16T19:47:27 < qyx> you may argue Android's UI thing is JAVA too despite not being swt/swing
2021-08-16T19:48:19 < qyx> englishman: tps25210 is cool too, now deciding if 500 uA Iq is too much or not
2021-08-16T19:48:39 < Steffanx> Are you all picking some ideal diode this week?
2021-08-16T19:52:05 < qyx> yeah 500 uA is too much for a battery powered device
2021-08-16T19:52:23 < qyx> but I can shutdown it
2021-08-16T19:52:53 < qyx> time to investigate stm32 alarm outputs
2021-08-16T19:52:59 < qyx> if there are any
2021-08-16T19:53:06 < qyx> or better, check gd32 or esp3ľ first
2021-08-16T19:54:20 < mawk> first and last ideal diode I chose was something from maxim
2021-08-16T19:54:31 < mawk> isn't that helpful??
2021-08-16T19:55:55 < Steffanx> Yes, unobtanium for sure.
2021-08-16T19:56:00 < Steffanx> Maybe try LT next
2021-08-16T19:56:30 < Steffanx> (Or analog ;) )
2021-08-16T19:58:32 < qyx> adi/lt is hard to get too
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2021-08-16T19:59:42 < Steffanx> Hah  yes
2021-08-16T20:00:02 < Steffanx> Time to start IRC EE semiconductors 
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2021-08-16T20:13:34 < englishman> Maybe I’ll just find some damn low vf shittkeys
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2021-08-16T20:35:07 < Steffanx> So when i ever need a functional fancy UI i call you, Mangy_Dog?
2021-08-16T20:35:21 < Mangy_Dog> yep
2021-08-16T20:35:29 < Mangy_Dog> i need the work :D
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2021-08-16T20:46:12 < mawk> use a indian that you package into the pcb to flick the switch at the right time qyx
2021-08-16T20:46:20 < mawk> best ideal diode you can do
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2021-08-16T21:27:19 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iicFG/Screenshot_2021-08-16_20-27-05.png
2021-08-16T21:27:20 < qyx> haha
2021-08-16T21:27:26 < qyx> TI added ti.com inventory
2021-08-16T21:28:53 < mawk> aren't they just selling samples
2021-08-16T21:29:18 < mawk> "1ku" what is this weird language
2021-08-16T21:29:26 < mawk> kilo-unit?
2021-08-16T21:30:11 < qyx> they literally have only trash available
2021-08-16T21:30:31 < qyx> I need to do lipo->5V and nothing reasonable is obtainable
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2021-08-16T21:36:11 < veverak> how many of them? and do you need voltage cutoff?
2021-08-16T21:37:01 < englishman> tps61222 is at digijew
2021-08-16T21:37:24 < englishman> haha ti.com page says 2k in stock, digikey page says 126
2021-08-16T21:37:26 < englishman> order now!!
2021-08-16T21:39:30 < qyx> no voltage cutoff, I can do that on the companion MCU
2021-08-16T21:39:45 < qyx> but ideally 3-4 A of output
2021-08-16T21:40:38 < qyx> LT8337 in stock!
2021-08-16T21:49:20 < mawk> put 2 lipos in series qyx 
2021-08-16T21:49:23 < mawk> problem solved
2021-08-16T21:49:43 < mawk> digijood
2021-08-16T21:49:46 < mawk> where is dongs
2021-08-16T21:49:51 < mawk> why isn't he here anymore
2021-08-16T21:50:00 < englishman> he didnt switch
2021-08-16T21:50:09 < englishman> he never was here
2021-08-16T21:50:18 < Steffanx> he was pretty much gone on freenode already.
2021-08-16T21:50:22 < qyx> antivaxxer
2021-08-16T21:50:27 < Steffanx> Around the time when he lost his nick.
2021-08-16T21:50:35 < englishman> not like you can blame him for hating freenode opers
2021-08-16T21:50:59 < Steffanx> you're on telegram too right, mr mawk?
2021-08-16T21:51:53 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-08-16T21:56:31 < qyx> time for dutch musics
2021-08-16T21:56:45 < mawk> qyx: https://youtu.be/7RABpCKLpvQ
2021-08-16T21:56:53 < mawk> ask and ye shall receive
2021-08-16T21:57:51 < qyx> what about no
2021-08-16T21:58:11 < mawk> :(
2021-08-16T21:58:12 < mawk> plz listen
2021-08-16T21:58:13 < mawk> it's good
2021-08-16T22:06:21 < Steffanx> its awful
2021-08-16T22:07:21 < Steffanx> maybe qyx needs some of this dutch quality music? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGC73UciQfY
2021-08-16T22:09:05 < Steffanx> Hows your dutch progressing mawk?
2021-08-16T22:09:52 < mawk> heel goed
2021-08-16T22:09:57 < mawk> echt prima
2021-08-16T22:10:49 < Steffanx> Geweldig!
2021-08-16T22:11:01 < mawk> ja
2021-08-16T22:11:29 < mawk> ik verstand nederlands een beetje goed
2021-08-16T22:11:36 < mawk> maar ik spreek het slecht
2021-08-16T22:11:40 < Steffanx> verstand?
2021-08-16T22:11:43 < Steffanx> versta?
2021-08-16T22:11:44 < mawk> verstande
2021-08-16T22:11:49 < mawk> ich verstehe
2021-08-16T22:11:56 < Steffanx> versta
2021-08-16T22:12:04 < mawk> vertsaan
2021-08-16T22:12:06 < mawk> yes
2021-08-16T22:12:10 < mawk> verstathing
2021-08-16T22:12:13 < Steffanx> Ik versta geen frans.
2021-08-16T22:12:31 < mawk> ja jij doen
2021-08-16T22:12:57 < Steffanx> une petit. or something
2021-08-16T22:13:04 < mawk> un petit peu
2021-08-16T22:13:17 < mawk> it means "a little little bit"
2021-08-16T22:13:41 < mawk> aujourd'hui means today but literally "on the day of today"
2021-08-16T22:17:25 < Steffanx> I dont want to learn french.
2021-08-16T22:17:37 < mawk> yes you do
2021-08-16T22:18:03 < Steffanx> non
2021-08-16T22:18:20 < mawk> :(
2021-08-16T22:18:23 < mawk> ah I remember the verb
2021-08-16T22:18:25 < mawk> ik begrijp
2021-08-16T22:18:36 < mawk> ik begrijp een beetje nederlands, maar ik spreeh het niet heel goed
2021-08-16T22:18:42 < mawk> spreek*
2021-08-16T22:23:58 < Steffanx> there is progress \o/
2021-08-16T22:25:16 < mawk> ja
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2021-08-16T22:37:30 < zyp> «jeg begriper en del nederlansk, men jeg snakker ikke så godt»
2021-08-16T22:37:31 < zyp> I guess
2021-08-16T22:37:57 < zyp> except in norwegian you'd use «forstår» rather than «begriper»
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2021-08-16T22:42:32 < Steffanx> you can say "verstaan" and "begrijpen" are two different things
2021-08-16T22:43:47 < zyp> yeah, they are close, but you wouldn't freely interchange them
2021-08-16T22:43:58 < mawk> jeg = first person ?
2021-08-16T22:44:00 < Steffanx> in dutch you maybe would
2021-08-16T22:44:01 < mawk> weird
2021-08-16T22:44:27 < zyp> mawk, yes, AFAIK the norwegian variant of «ik»
2021-08-16T22:45:21 < mawk> ic
2021-08-16T22:45:57 < Steffanx> i think it might even sound a bit similar.
2021-08-16T22:46:08 < mouseghost> IK
2021-08-16T22:46:13 < mouseghost> are netherlands people mouse people
2021-08-16T22:46:18 < mouseghost> because eek is what mice do
2021-08-16T22:46:21 < mawk> iik iik iiiik
2021-08-16T22:46:33 < mouseghost> mawk, is that a pig?
2021-08-16T22:46:44 < mawk> een vark
2021-08-16T22:46:49 < mawk> do we say vark for uncooked pigs Steffanx ?
2021-08-16T22:47:03 < Steffanx> varken
2021-08-16T22:47:09 < mawk> varken in singular???
2021-08-16T22:47:12 < mawk> ??????????
2021-08-16T22:47:19 < mawk> dutch is too weird, I quit
2021-08-16T22:47:20 < Steffanx> Si senor
2021-08-16T22:47:26 < mawk> you're lying
2021-08-16T22:47:28 < mawk> 1 vark, 2 varken
2021-08-16T22:47:31 < Steffanx> 1 varken, two varkens.
2021-08-16T22:47:40 < mouseghost> signior
2021-08-16T22:47:51 < mawk> varkens?????????
2021-08-16T22:47:53 < mawk> nonsense
2021-08-16T22:48:02 < ventyl> two citronas
2021-08-16T22:48:03 < mawk> twee varkens
2021-08-16T22:48:04 < Steffanx> 1 kind, 2 kinderen.
2021-08-16T22:48:09 < mawk> yes kinderen makes sense
2021-08-16T22:48:14 < mawk> or kinden
2021-08-16T22:48:21 < Steffanx> 1 ei, 2 eieren.
2021-08-16T22:48:21 < mawk> but not kindens
2021-08-16T22:48:25 < mawk> it's like a mix of two plurals
2021-08-16T22:48:29 < Steffanx> it used to be kinder and eier, more like german
2021-08-16T22:48:30 < mawk> yes ei eieren makes sense too
2021-08-16T22:48:42 < mawk> german is always -en for plural
2021-08-16T22:48:43 < mawk> I think
2021-08-16T22:48:54 < mouseghost> do you have lots of secksen
2021-08-16T22:48:57 < mawk> yes
2021-08-16T22:49:03 < mawk> lots and lots of it
2021-08-16T22:49:04 < mawk> all day long
2021-08-16T22:49:08 < mawk> with Steffanx my lover
2021-08-16T22:49:52 < Steffanx> if your dutch is good enough, you must watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-jrj9BTgPA mawk
2021-08-16T22:50:01 < mawk> wait I have to cook
2021-08-16T22:50:02 < ventyl> mawk: zwei autos
2021-08-16T22:50:04 < mawk> I'll watch later
2021-08-16T22:50:09 < mawk> ik ga koeken
2021-08-16T22:50:10 < ventyl> nerabotajet
2021-08-16T22:50:19 < mawk> is it good Steffanx ??
2021-08-16T22:50:22 < mawk> ik ga koeken
2021-08-16T22:50:23 < Steffanx> koken.
2021-08-16T22:50:28 < mawk> ik ga een gerecht makken
2021-08-16T22:50:31 < mawk> ah
2021-08-16T22:50:32 < Steffanx> maken.
2021-08-16T22:50:34 < mawk> ik ga koken
2021-08-16T22:50:35 < Steffanx> bereiden.
2021-08-16T22:50:42 < mawk> ik ga een gerecht maken
2021-08-16T22:50:44 < qyx> I was about to say ľaľa ho papľuha, ogrcal mi krpce, but ventyl came
2021-08-16T22:50:52 < mawk> met rijst en rundvlees en saus
2021-08-16T22:50:59 < Steffanx> rijst, meh
2021-08-16T22:51:03 < mawk> what
2021-08-16T22:51:12 < mawk> rijst is goed met ching chong gerecht
2021-08-16T22:51:12 < Steffanx> Not a big fan of rice
2021-08-16T22:51:20 < mawk> gerechten
2021-08-16T22:51:23 < mawk> gerechts
2021-08-16T22:51:43 < Steffanx> Did you try pindasaus yet?
2021-08-16T22:51:54 < mawk> of course
2021-08-16T22:51:56 < Steffanx> and kroepoek?
2021-08-16T22:51:57 < mawk> I have some in my closet right now
2021-08-16T22:52:04 < mawk> yes but I don't like kroepoek
2021-08-16T22:52:06 < mawk> it's a funny word
2021-08-16T22:52:20 < mouseghost> whos, hehe, topping?
2021-08-16T22:52:33 < mawk> lol
2021-08-16T22:52:37 < mawk> depends on the day
2021-08-16T22:52:50 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-16T22:52:56 < mawk> I did bami some dayzz ago Steffanx 
2021-08-16T22:52:59 < mawk> are you proud of me
2021-08-16T22:53:03 < mouseghost> whats bami
2021-08-16T22:53:06 < mouseghost> did you mean bambi
2021-08-16T22:53:10 < mouseghost> why did you cook bambi
2021-08-16T22:53:11 < mouseghost> noooooooooo
2021-08-16T22:53:13 < mawk> ben jij trots op mij
2021-08-16T22:53:13 < mouseghost> bambi
2021-08-16T22:53:20 < mawk> no mouseghost 
2021-08-16T22:53:29 < mawk> it's large pasta with peanut butter sauce
2021-08-16T22:53:39 < mawk> bami
2021-08-16T22:53:39 < Steffanx> im not a fan of bami either, mawk
2021-08-16T22:53:46 < mouseghost> im not either
2021-08-16T22:53:56 < mawk> mouseghost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mie_goreng
2021-08-16T22:53:59 < mawk> Steffanx: why???
2021-08-16T22:54:02 < mawk> and nasi?
2021-08-16T22:54:02 < Steffanx> idk.
2021-08-16T22:54:04 < Steffanx> nope
2021-08-16T22:54:11 < mouseghost> mawk, are you indonesian
2021-08-16T22:54:18 < Steffanx> the entire fake chinese/indian restaurant isnt for me.
2021-08-16T22:54:29 < Steffanx> indonesian
2021-08-16T22:54:31 < mawk> no mouseghost but indonesia got democracy'd by netherlands some time ago
2021-08-16T22:54:34 < mawk> so we have some of their dishes
2021-08-16T22:54:37 < mouseghost> aha
2021-08-16T22:54:40 < mouseghost> they stole our flag
2021-08-16T22:54:42 < mouseghost> yknow
2021-08-16T22:54:46 < Steffanx> mouseghost the fake chinese/indoneasian restaurant business is big in dutchland
2021-08-16T22:54:56 < mawk> it's not fake
2021-08-16T22:54:59 < mawk> it's 100% genuine
2021-08-16T22:55:00 < Steffanx> and then written properly.
2021-08-16T22:55:07 < mawk> impossible for steffie
2021-08-16T22:55:13 < mouseghost> ching chang restaurant
2021-08-16T22:55:22 < mawk> chong*
2021-08-16T22:55:28 < mawk> ching chong
2021-08-16T22:55:36 < mouseghost> Steffanx, tbh im not a fan of the "wooo foreign dishes" either
2021-08-16T22:55:45 < mawk> nonsense
2021-08-16T22:55:47 < mawk> if it's good it's good
2021-08-16T22:55:47 < mouseghost> though i do admit i did eat a fairly cheap viet meal in berlin
2021-08-16T22:55:50 < mawk> we don't care where it comes from
2021-08-16T22:55:53 < mouseghost> and it was very nice and good
2021-08-16T22:55:54 < mawk> that's a genetic fallacy
2021-08-16T22:56:07 < mawk> you're committing fallacies and that's a capital offence and you should be hanged
2021-08-16T22:56:10 < Steffanx> i dont like spicy food at all
2021-08-16T22:56:13 < mouseghost> noo
2021-08-16T22:56:21 < mawk> I put no spiciness in my bami Steffanx 
2021-08-16T22:56:23 < mawk> now what
2021-08-16T22:56:30 < Steffanx> then it tastes like nothing
2021-08-16T22:56:36 < mawk> nonsense
2021-08-16T22:56:41 < mawk> there's the pindasaus
2021-08-16T22:56:45 < mawk> lots of taste
2021-08-16T22:56:48 < mouseghost> pindasaus??
2021-08-16T22:56:49 < mouseghost> lmao haha
2021-08-16T22:56:57 < mouseghost> pinda is a pop word for cunt here
2021-08-16T22:57:00 < Steffanx> ill not repeat what i said a few times before now.. because the same applies to pindasaus
2021-08-16T22:57:35 < mouseghost> meh i kinda miss my old wikipedia cloak
2021-08-16T22:57:44 < mouseghost> but im too lazy to get it here
2021-08-16T22:57:51 < Steffanx> https://www.myhappykitchen.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/IMG_4485.jpg .. thats what it looks like mouseghost. Righter after your explosive diarrhea
2021-08-16T22:58:10 < mouseghost> Steffanx, is that a toilet in dutchland
2021-08-16T22:58:34 < mouseghost> i mean, i probably wouldnt eat it without anything harder in it, but it doesnt look thaaat bad
2021-08-16T22:59:57 < Steffanx> Thats why "sate" is commonly eaten with it.
2021-08-16T23:00:04 < Steffanx> where were you from again mr mouseghost? poland?
2021-08-16T23:00:06 < mouseghost> the hell is sate
2021-08-16T23:00:09 < mouseghost> yes poland Steffanx
2021-08-16T23:00:51 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satay mouseghost
2021-08-16T23:02:03 < mouseghost> i must say that i do quite like our food here
2021-08-16T23:02:29 < mouseghost> looks like szaszłyk or rats on a stick
2021-08-16T23:02:59 < mouseghost> Shashlik
2021-08-16T23:04:37 < qyx> we have raznici instead https://receptik.interez.sk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/raznici.jpg
2021-08-16T23:04:42 < qyx> no šašlik here
2021-08-16T23:06:09 < mouseghost> qyx, did you kill shrek
2021-08-16T23:06:12 < mouseghost> because i can see onion
2021-08-16T23:06:15 < mouseghost> and shrek is like onion
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2021-08-16T23:10:41 < zyp> jpa-, would you like some 168Mbaud SWO? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DwLan.png
2021-08-16T23:11:40 < zyp> the uart decoder in my scope doesn't wanna attempt more than 20Mbaud :'(
2021-08-16T23:13:53 < Steffanx> what fancy rigol is this?
2021-08-16T23:13:59 < zyp> mso5k
2021-08-16T23:14:56 < qyx> replace its crystal
2021-08-16T23:14:58 < Steffanx> cheapest one haxored to the most expensive one?
2021-08-16T23:15:06 < zyp> yes
2021-08-16T23:15:48 < zyp> didn't I do enough blogging about it months ago?
2021-08-16T23:15:59 < Steffanx> i dont know
2021-08-16T23:18:45 < zyp> it's nice, I like it
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2021-08-16T23:42:22 < GenTooMan> I'm sure there is a reason for communication at 20M baud async, but I seem to lack the clue as to why. Timing variation could be interesting.
2021-08-16T23:45:25 < jadew> zyp, I must have missed that, how much did you pay for it?
2021-08-16T23:45:35 < jadew> I need a better scope too
2021-08-16T23:46:16 < zyp> 809 for the scope plus 299 for the digital pod
2021-08-16T23:46:26 < jadew> wow, that's really good
2021-08-16T23:46:39 < jadew> as much as I did for the 1000Z when I got it
2021-08-16T23:46:44 < zyp> and 218 for the sensepeek probe set, and 38 in shipping
2021-08-16T23:46:48 < zyp> (EUR)
2021-08-16T23:47:06 < jadew> what's the sensepeek probe?
2021-08-16T23:47:23 < zyp> https://www.batronix.com/shop/measurement/pcb-holder/sensepeek/4019-PCBite-kit-SP200.html
2021-08-16T23:47:41 < zyp> they're awesome, way more convenient than the regular probes
2021-08-16T23:47:45 < jadew> that's awesome
2021-08-16T23:47:47 < jadew> yeah
2021-08-16T23:48:58 < jadew> I wish I could get more than 350 MHz tho
2021-08-16T23:49:08 < jadew> can it be hacked to something higher than that?
2021-08-16T23:49:47 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8RMaq.jpg <- this is how I'm getting that swo capture
2021-08-16T23:50:19 < jadew> neat
2021-08-16T23:51:02 < zyp> on probe performance: https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1325868223653314560
2021-08-16T23:53:09 < jadew> you really need a springy ground connection
2021-08-16T23:53:15 < jadew> otherwise it's a PITA to work with it
2021-08-16T23:54:12 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
--- Day changed Tue Aug 17 2021
2021-08-17T00:05:59 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-17T00:07:49 < mouseghost> guys
2021-08-17T00:07:50 < mouseghost> are you gay
2021-08-17T00:15:54 < PaulFertser> I think ##stm32 promotes pansexuality.
2021-08-17T00:16:18 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-08-17T00:16:53 < jadew> if you're gay, you're ok
2021-08-17T00:18:55 < Steffanx> We accept you no matter what mouseghost 
2021-08-17T00:18:58 < Steffanx> Ok thats a lie
2021-08-17T00:19:38 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-17T00:20:05 < PaulFertser> I miss our favourite gay nigger.
2021-08-17T00:20:40 < Steffanx> Mr dongs?
2021-08-17T00:21:19 < PaulFertser> Yep
2021-08-17T00:22:15 < specing> I miss our favourite memer
2021-08-17T00:22:43 < Steffanx> Favourite. My arse
2021-08-17T00:27:15 < specing> you have another favourite?
2021-08-17T00:33:51 < kakium69> inv dongs
2021-08-17T00:34:28 < mouseghost> goodnight
2021-08-17T00:34:31 < mouseghost> sweethearts
2021-08-17T00:36:13 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-08-17T00:38:09 < Steffanx> You, specing 
2021-08-17T00:38:32 < Steffanx> I remember you being our channel SJW back in the time 
2021-08-17T00:38:33 < specing> Me? I hardly say anything here
2021-08-17T00:38:40 < specing> What, really?
2021-08-17T00:38:43 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-08-17T00:38:48 < Steffanx> Yeaaars ago
2021-08-17T00:40:00 < jadew> Satan was the first to want equality!
2021-08-17T00:41:49 < jadew> benishor, I remember you got some new tweezers too, which one were they?
2021-08-17T00:42:00 < jadew> got feedback?
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 17 01:00:58 2021
--- Log opened Tue Aug 17 01:01:05 2021
2021-08-17T01:01:05 -!- jpa- [jpa@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-17T01:01:05 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 71 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 71 normal]
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2021-08-17T01:07:50 < jadew> the only bearable movies on netflix are in the horror category
2021-08-17T01:08:04 < jadew> everything else is some sort of propaganda shit
2021-08-17T01:09:47 < jadew> started watching a show with witches, first episode there was a priest condemning a woman for witchcraft and was reading from his book about how "we don't like women who think"
2021-08-17T01:12:33 < Steffanx> Horror is the worst kind.
2021-08-17T01:13:15 < Steffanx> Predictable bullshit horror is AWFUL
2021-08-17T01:13:18 < jadew> it almost seems like it's the only untouched genre
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2021-08-17T01:14:05 < jadew> what are you watching?
2021-08-17T01:14:06 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-08-17T01:14:57 < Steffanx> I only watch horror when the imdb score is higher than 6. Maybe 7
2021-08-17T01:15:01 < Steffanx> Depends on my mood
2021-08-17T01:15:25 < Steffanx> But usually its 3-5 so that's good
2021-08-17T01:15:33 < Steffanx> For me to not watch it
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2021-08-17T01:15:52 < jadew> I just needed something to play in the background, so far it was a good pick (Hostel - I'm at min. 24)
2021-08-17T01:16:42 < jadew> it's like a 10 on the boob scale so far
2021-08-17T01:16:49 < Steffanx> Last horror I've seen was the conjuring 3 or something 
2021-08-17T01:17:17 < jadew> was it good?
2021-08-17T01:17:43 < Steffanx> A little I watched it after 1&2
2021-08-17T01:17:51 < jadew> sounds like the kind of movie that makes you feel funny when you go to bed
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2021-08-17T01:19:15 < Steffanx> Hereditary was ok too
2021-08-17T01:20:05 < jadew> I think I saw it, but I can't remember it
2021-08-17T01:20:49 < Steffanx> Naked people in a tree house
2021-08-17T01:20:59 < Steffanx> The end
2021-08-17T01:21:01 < jadew> oh, sounds good
2021-08-17T01:21:10 < jadew> how long are they naked? :)
2021-08-17T01:21:26 < jadew> I'll have to check it out
2021-08-17T01:21:51 < Steffanx> Not so long
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2021-08-17T02:53:32 < karlp> I'm watching travellers on netflix and really nejoying it.
2021-08-17T03:22:09 < jadew> I'll give it another go, not sure what turned me off about that one
2021-08-17T03:22:20 < jadew> I think I only saw the first episode, maybe I forgot I was watching it
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2021-08-17T07:48:33 < jpa-> zyp: nice :)
2021-08-17T07:50:30 < jpa-> putting ferrite on the ground lead also cuts down on ringing, if one cannot use a shorter ground
2021-08-17T07:52:45 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/cable_input_ferrite_near_amp.png   ferrite (yellow) vs. no ferrite (blue) on my diff amp project when using 10cm input cables
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2021-08-17T10:00:26 < cluelessperson> karlp, I really liked Travellers
2021-08-17T10:00:45 < cluelessperson> enjoyed it anyway
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2021-08-17T10:40:14 < qyx> Laurenceb's hyperloop
2021-08-17T10:40:16 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9b0J29OzAU
2021-08-17T10:50:00 < jpa-> no wonder he is getting so much EMI
2021-08-17T11:06:07 < qyx> interesting, mouser still have 41x of G491CCU6 in stock after I ordered 25 last week
2021-08-17T11:21:24 < qyx> Please enter your e-mail address, if you want a 10 Euro coupon code for your next order
2021-08-17T11:21:51 < qyx> aisler gives coupons for answering their questionaire
2021-08-17T11:24:55 < ventyl> I have broken gcc or something
2021-08-17T11:28:59 < ventyl> oh, it is broken by default
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2021-08-17T12:19:48 < qyx>  ADS1278-SP - Radiation Hardened 24-Bit 8-Ch Simultaneous-Sampling Delta-Sigma ADC - Hi-Rel 
2021-08-17T12:19:56 < qyx> €12,954.372
2021-08-17T12:26:53 < jpa-> quick, buy them all before they are out of stock
2021-08-17T12:26:53 < jadew> suitable for use in japan
2021-08-17T12:33:05 < Streaker> and Nevada
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2021-08-17T13:59:19 < cluelessperson> so question
2021-08-17T13:59:37 < cluelessperson> how do you flip pins of a microcontroller in C++?
2021-08-17T13:59:54 < cluelessperson> are the pins typically just registers that you flip, and write a function for that?
2021-08-17T14:01:24 < qyx> cluelessperson: google "zyp laks" or ask zyp for laks, he would like your c++ interest
2021-08-17T14:02:39 < cluelessperson> qyx, dunno who that is
2021-08-17T14:03:04 < cluelessperson> or what that is
2021-08-17T14:03:07 < cluelessperson> and there's no readme
2021-08-17T14:04:05 < jpa-> cluelessperson: yes, GPIOs have registers, GPIOA->ODR for example
2021-08-17T14:04:49 < cluelessperson> I mean to say, is how people flip pins just by accessing the registers directly or just by wrapping them with a function?
2021-08-17T14:05:08 < jpa-> both ways are common
2021-08-17T14:05:25 < qyx> we are just using functions, not writing them ourselves
2021-08-17T14:05:26 < jpa-> wrapping in a function can make it easier to change pin assignments, though one can also use macros for that
2021-08-17T14:05:46 < jpa-> and yeah, premade wrapper functions are common also
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2021-08-17T15:19:18 < englishman> wow the f302 clocktree is quite restrictive
2021-08-17T15:19:33 < Streaker> cluelessperson: a pin is a location in memory. all you have to do is write to that memory location. That's literally one single instruction in C++.
2021-08-17T15:19:33 < englishman> im not even sure how the adc clock is ever going to be 12 MHz
2021-08-17T15:21:43 < englishman> if sysclk is going to also be at 72 MHz
2021-08-17T15:22:16 < englishman> cluelessperson: which chip exactly
2021-08-17T15:26:19 < zyp> englishman, IIRC the F3 RCC is pretty much identical to F1
2021-08-17T15:26:37 < englishman> it's this async mode that has me confused
2021-08-17T15:26:42 < englishman> back to the rm
2021-08-17T15:28:23 < englishman> alright got it
2021-08-17T15:29:49 < zyp> cluelessperson, I do it this way: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gpio/gpio.h#n126
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2021-08-17T16:26:27 < mawk> <Streaker> cluelessperson: a pin is a location in memory. all you have to do is write to that memory location. That's literally one single instruction in C++.
2021-08-17T16:26:29 < mawk> it depends
2021-08-17T16:26:34 < mawk> sometimes it's a whole bank of pins
2021-08-17T16:27:03 < mawk> why are you writing C++ cluelessperson 
2021-08-17T16:37:39 < englishman> so i started up a brand new stm32 project with hal and cubeIDE
2021-08-17T16:37:42 < englishman> which is pretty nice
2021-08-17T16:37:49 < englishman> but i'm getting the same weird adc results
2021-08-17T16:38:34 < englishman> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/LIFa5843.html
2021-08-17T16:39:18 < englishman> adc1 should be 0, adc2 and adc3 are pulled up, adc4 should be about 3685 counts, inttemp/vrefint/vbat etc should read something
2021-08-17T16:39:35 < englishman> 1 reads 170-200, 4 reads 2240, all the rest read zero
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2021-08-17T16:47:03 < englishman> slowed down adc to 1 MHz, now all zero except adc4 that reads the same value
2021-08-17T16:51:30 < englishman> ok I start to get stuff on inttemp/vrefint/vbat channels if i deinit ADC before changing channels...
2021-08-17T16:51:57 < englishman> ...but still incorrect values
2021-08-17T16:56:30 < jpa-> > cubeIDE  > pretty nice   indeed, englishman must have incorrect values
2021-08-17T16:57:03 < englishman> it's just eclipse, the most beloved IDE of opensores
2021-08-17T17:07:08 < Steffanx> Most eclipse issues are user issues. Right Mangy_Dog ?
2021-08-17T17:07:17 < Mangy_Dog> >.>
2021-08-17T17:07:17 < Steffanx> Or crappy plugins 
2021-08-17T17:07:24 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2021-08-17T17:07:25 < Mangy_Dog> sometimes
2021-08-17T17:07:39 < Mangy_Dog> im still leaning on eclipse being very fragile though
2021-08-17T17:08:16 < ventyl> if all your IDE has are crappy plugins, then how useful IDE itself is?
2021-08-17T17:08:34 < ventyl> like if I compare VS with VScode
2021-08-17T17:08:50 < ventyl> VS is quite limited to one/two compilers and one buildsystem, but it just works
2021-08-17T17:09:10 < ventyl> VScode can probably do whatever you want, but you'll run out of useful lifetime before you figure it out
2021-08-17T17:11:01 < jpa-> vscode works pretty well for me
2021-08-17T17:11:34 < ventyl> it works
2021-08-17T17:11:51 < ventyl> but I personally find it more complicated to set up compared to vim
2021-08-17T17:11:59 < ventyl> if not more complicated, then at least equally complicated
2021-08-17T17:12:08 < ventyl> you have to stuff it with dozen of plugins to be actually usable
2021-08-17T17:13:36 < Mangy_Dog> is eclipse still written in java and running within a vm?
2021-08-17T17:13:48 < Mangy_Dog> or did they go away from that long ago?
2021-08-17T17:14:20 < ventyl> java now runs jit-ted, so it is schrodinger's kind of a VM
2021-08-17T17:14:24 < ventyl> but it is still written in java
2021-08-17T17:15:51 < Mangy_Dog> Is it really a VM if you dont look inside the box to see if its a VM kind of thing? :p
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2021-08-17T17:17:19 < ventyl> that's probably implementation dependant
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2021-08-17T17:18:22 < ventyl> IIRC, ti is not possible to satisty JRE spec without actually having VM doing some stuff, but it probably is possible to "inline" a lot of it into method preambles
2021-08-17T17:18:42 < ventyl> you still need GC and allocator and stuff
2021-08-17T17:26:30 < Steffanx> Lol ventyl much triggered 
2021-08-17T17:31:46 < ventyl> i am not triggered :)
2021-08-17T17:39:23 < Steffanx> Slightly then
2021-08-17T17:39:50 < ventyl> not even slightly
2021-08-17T17:40:06 < ventyl> just my experience is that once some project is using eclipse loaded with plugins, it sucks a lot
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2021-08-17T18:13:01 < englishman> uh oh
2021-08-17T18:13:07 < englishman> i ran the same program on old hardware and it worked
2021-08-17T18:19:14 < bitmask> hi hi hi
2021-08-17T18:26:21 < englishman> hmm nevermind that hardware was all broken. it doesn't work on old working hardware
2021-08-17T18:26:34 < englishman> this is super weird, we have been using adc1 ch1 on this hw for years
2021-08-17T18:26:49 < englishman> now we go to use ch2-4 and nothing works
2021-08-17T18:58:21 < qyx> englishman: which stm32?
2021-08-17T18:59:06 < englishman> Stm32f302c8
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2021-08-17T19:03:15 < qyx> did you enable vrefint?
2021-08-17T19:04:03 < qyx> cannot see it in the code
2021-08-17T19:04:35 < qyx> also the code is fucking unreadable
2021-08-17T19:05:25 < qyx> I understand it is test code but different indentation levels kill my OCPD
2021-08-17T19:05:46 < Steffanx> Poor qyx 
2021-08-17T19:09:59 < Mangy_Dog> why do i get the dreaded feeling im never going to be able to buy an stm32 micro ever again :/
2021-08-17T19:10:11 < Mangy_Dog> certainly not a stm32f103
2021-08-17T19:10:21 < Steffanx> You dont want that anyway
2021-08-17T19:10:23 < Mangy_Dog> but even the other chips
2021-08-17T19:10:32 < Steffanx> Wait a year or 2
2021-08-17T19:10:33 < Steffanx> 1
2021-08-17T19:10:37 < Steffanx> 2
2021-08-17T19:10:43 < Mangy_Dog> not sure i can wait that long D:
2021-08-17T19:10:52 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have loads of chips left
2021-08-17T19:11:11 < Mangy_Dog> though
2021-08-17T19:11:14 < Mangy_Dog> might as well ask
2021-08-17T19:11:20 < Mangy_Dog> whats a good alt for the f103?
2021-08-17T19:11:48 < qyx> f401 for example
2021-08-17T19:11:53 < qyx> cheap low cost
2021-08-17T19:12:08 < Mangy_Dog> where from though?
2021-08-17T19:12:16 < Mangy_Dog> thats low cost
2021-08-17T19:12:45 < qyx> G0 is low cost too, mouser has some in stock
2021-08-17T19:14:38 < englishman> Yes let me upload latest code in a bit
2021-08-17T19:14:54 < englishman> turns out Hal can’t enable vrefint etc
2021-08-17T19:14:59 < qyx> :D
2021-08-17T19:15:00 < Mangy_Dog> FUCK ME
2021-08-17T19:15:08 < Mangy_Dog> £5 PER CHIP?
2021-08-17T19:15:13 < Mangy_Dog> 401cb
2021-08-17T19:15:22 < qyx> is that bad?
2021-08-17T19:15:26 < Mangy_Dog> very?
2021-08-17T19:15:29 < qyx> I would sa, quite a low cost
2021-08-17T19:15:38 < Mangy_Dog> at its cheapest the f103cb/c8 were about 50p
2021-08-17T19:16:11 < englishman> In singles? Clones maybe
2021-08-17T19:16:27 < Mangy_Dog> na legit
2021-08-17T19:16:30 < Mangy_Dog> ligit
2021-08-17T19:16:38 < qyx> I would say expensive if they ask 20€ for L4 or whatever
2021-08-17T19:16:38 < Mangy_Dog> actually legit was wrong
2021-08-17T19:16:41 < Mangy_Dog> write
2021-08-17T19:16:52 < ventyl> how many MCUs do you need? I have some very low end L0s at home, which I probably won't use
2021-08-17T19:16:56 < Mangy_Dog> buyt yeah c8 not cb was 50p off lscs before the shortage
2021-08-17T19:18:51 < ventyl> oh, nevermind, you live in not-in-eu-anymore kingdom
2021-08-17T19:18:58 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2021-08-17T19:19:46 < Mangy_Dog> though also
2021-08-17T19:19:47 < Mangy_Dog> i admit
2021-08-17T19:19:51 < ventyl> i have only 10 pcs, that's not worth the effort
2021-08-17T19:19:52 < Mangy_Dog> it was 50p if i got 30+
2021-08-17T19:20:06 < Mangy_Dog> i bloody wish i got them while i could
2021-08-17T19:20:39 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah i have about 10 maybe 15 good f103s left
2021-08-17T19:20:58 < Mangy_Dog> im rationing myself with them :/
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2021-08-17T20:32:22 < englishman> qyx: http://bcas.tv/paste/results/qPOXo711.html
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2021-08-17T20:33:05 < Steffanx> LL <3
2021-08-17T20:34:18 < sauce> mixed spaces and tabs, you monster
2021-08-17T20:36:03 < sauce> cargo culted volatiles
2021-08-17T20:36:13 < sauce> excuse me while i critique everything unrelated to the problem
2021-08-17T20:56:35 < englishman> vcc is 3.0V and shit is going down like vbat reading 273 counts
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2021-08-17T21:02:48 < englishman> think i got it
2021-08-17T21:03:25 < englishman> PA4 has a 10k pulldown to -2.5V to give a negative output to the DAC for a true zero
2021-08-17T21:03:41 < englishman> *negative bias
2021-08-17T21:06:03 < qyx> wat
2021-08-17T21:06:57 < qyx> is it fighting with the output impedance of the DAC to pull the output few mV to VSSA?
2021-08-17T21:07:04 < qyx> when the dac outputs 0 counts?
2021-08-17T21:07:45 < qyx> how is it related to ADC measurement? Do you use PA4 for ADC somehow?
2021-08-17T21:14:15 < englishman> in my test, dac wasn't even enabled
2021-08-17T21:14:23 < englishman> i think there is a current leak from that pin
2021-08-17T21:14:32 < englishman> so the internal comparators will be fucked
2021-08-17T21:15:24 < englishman> because i pulled off that resistor and everything works
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2021-08-17T21:19:03 < qyx> so you are not using ADC only but messing with comparators and dac too
2021-08-17T21:19:19 < qyx> there are sections in the RM saying you cannot use those pins for anything if some of the peripherals are enabled
2021-08-17T21:19:21 < aandrew> <sauce> [13:36:13] excuse me while i critique everything unrelated to the problem
2021-08-17T21:19:26 < aandrew> This is the way, lol
2021-08-17T21:20:06 < englishman> nice, errors in the LL DAC section
2021-08-17T21:20:13 < englishman> qyx: where?
2021-08-17T21:20:47 < aandrew> englishman: are you sure your negative bias isn’t causing the protection diodes to conduct a little?
2021-08-17T21:22:19 < qyx> idk where exactly but I have read that
2021-08-17T21:23:07 < qyx> like using DAC and feeding it to opamp input or comp input
2021-08-17T21:23:09 < qyx> renders PA4/5 unusable despite being unconfigured for analog
2021-08-17T21:23:12 < qyx> or something like that
2021-08-17T21:23:30 < qyx> there were a couple of such pins
2021-08-17T21:23:33 < englishman> aandrew: yes i suspect it was that
2021-08-17T21:26:45 < englishman> i'm setting up the dac and buffer to see if that makes a difference when the bias is applied
2021-08-17T21:29:18 < englishman> nothing in errata
2021-08-17T21:30:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/zrijfHC This ones finished :D 
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2021-08-17T21:36:10 < englishman> ok, when the DAC and buffer are on, even with teh DAC at 0 and a small negative volage on that pin, all the adc readings are OK
2021-08-17T21:39:56 < englishman> hooray, fixed in software
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2021-08-17T21:51:00 < Steffanx> lol
2021-08-17T21:53:53 < qyx> so what was the actual problem
2021-08-17T21:54:05 < qyx> pulling DAC output low while being disabled?
2021-08-17T21:57:42 < englishman> yes
2021-08-17T21:58:05 < englishman> also the adc needs a quite long integration time to correctly sample a 100k pullup :)
2021-08-17T21:59:16 < englishman> 72 MHz with /256 prescaler, 600 clock period sample time, error = 0.22%
2021-08-17T21:59:30 < englishman> 72 MHz with /64 prescaler, 600 clock period sample time, error = 6.74%
2021-08-17T22:08:00 < qyx> a small parallel cap
2021-08-17T22:08:03 < qyx> tried
2021-08-17T22:08:04 < qyx> you?
2021-08-17T22:08:18 < englishman> too late, hardware is done
2021-08-17T22:09:11 < qyx> piggyback it on the pullup
2021-08-17T22:09:26 < qyx> it shouldn't matter if it is connected to ground or vdd
2021-08-17T22:09:34 < englishman> true
2021-08-17T22:09:50 < qyx> and follow all your internal processes
2021-08-17T22:09:54 < qyx> make a note
2021-08-17T22:09:56 < englishman> actually it has a nonplaced pulldown
2021-08-17T22:09:59 < englishman> can just put a cap there
2021-08-17T22:09:59 < qyx> add it to the errata of the current revision
2021-08-17T22:10:02 < qyx> prepare a change request
2021-08-17T22:10:04 < qyx> etc etc
2021-08-17T22:10:05 < qyx> you know
2021-08-17T22:10:16 < englishman> ECO filled out and signed in triplicate
2021-08-17T22:10:18 < englishman> on paper
2021-08-17T22:10:33 < englishman> faxed to japan
2021-08-17T22:10:45 < englishman> where they take a cameraphone pic and email it to their computer
2021-08-17T22:10:47 < qyx> good then
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2021-08-17T23:35:14 < bitmask> anyone play with bismuth? I'm about to see if my hot plate will get hot enough
2021-08-17T23:36:15 < qyx> karlp: re mqtt, I did a web UI using only mqtt to communicate with the backend.. and the backend uses mqtt broker to store its configuration in retained messages
2021-08-17T23:37:04 < qyx> so far, I like it, because the web UI knows state of the app, backend services get their config when they subscribe and I can share the state between multiple devices (tablet, phone) which control the thing
2021-08-17T23:41:18 < karlp> :+1:
2021-08-17T23:42:25 < karlp> meh, my micro sim push-push socket got EOL'd
2021-08-17T23:42:42 < karlp> though, iirc, I picked that one as it had lots of clone footprints.
2021-08-17T23:43:02 < qyx> what is :+1:
2021-08-17T23:43:22 < qyx> https://emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%91%8D/
2021-08-17T23:43:23 < qyx> aha.
--- Day changed Wed Aug 18 2021
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2021-08-18T00:05:11 < bitmask> nice the bismuth is melting
2021-08-18T00:05:42 < bitmask> what i just realized though is that i dont have a second stainless steel container to use :P
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2021-08-18T00:46:09 < karlp> 👍
2021-08-18T00:46:15 < karlp> will do that next time.
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2021-08-18T02:26:10 < bitmask> haha wtf
2021-08-18T02:26:26 < bitmask> this company just sent me my previous order for a second time, months later
2021-08-18T02:26:44 < bitmask> i received the last one just fine, never said anything like i havent received it
2021-08-18T02:27:08 < bitmask> if only i ordered more expensive stuff!
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2021-08-18T09:31:34 < qyx> surprisingly enough, BQ25720 doesn't have such retarded I2C/smbus proto as other BQ parts
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2021-08-18T12:48:33 < Steffann> Aaah the joy, today I get to work with my all time favourite Eclipse flavour.  Code Composer Studio 5
2021-08-18T12:51:48 < ventyl> sauce it a bit more by adding IBM rational team concert plugin
2021-08-18T12:52:11 < ventyl> which actually is usually distributed in inverse. they distribute eclipse as a plugin to RTC plugin
2021-08-18T12:56:34 < Steffann> This is based on eclipse 3.7 (2012) 🥳🥳
2021-08-18T12:56:53 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2021-08-18T12:57:08 < Steffanx> I like legacy projects
2021-08-18T12:57:24 < emeryth> it's not like eclipse changed much in a decade...
2021-08-18T13:00:44 < ventyl> that's exactly the reason why projects sholudn't ever be bound to IDE
2021-08-18T13:00:52 < ventyl> that idea is fundamentally wrong
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2021-08-18T13:14:10 < Steffanx> Its wonderful 
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2021-08-18T13:43:30 < Spirit532> How can I run multiple timer channels via DMA?
2021-08-18T13:43:56 < Spirit532> I have 4 independent channels that I'd like to generate 4 out of phase sine waves on
2021-08-18T13:44:56 < Spirit532> Here's my setup:
2021-08-18T13:44:57 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/t26DM.png
2021-08-18T13:45:05 < qyx> maybe use 4 DMA channels?
2021-08-18T13:45:14 < Spirit532> can't
2021-08-18T13:45:15 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/n4ili.png
2021-08-18T13:45:17 < qyx> trieggered by a fifth timer
2021-08-18T13:45:25 < qyx> why can't
2021-08-18T13:45:26 < englishman> msp420 steffy?
2021-08-18T13:45:26 < Spirit532> it only has this weird multi channel thing
2021-08-18T13:45:28 < Spirit532> see above
2021-08-18T13:45:37 < Spirit532> but if I run this
2021-08-18T13:45:43 < Spirit532> HAL_TIM_PWM_Start_DMA(&htim1, TIM_CHANNEL_1, buffer, bufsize);
2021-08-18T13:45:51 < Spirit532> I get NOTHING on the output, except that 50% duty square wave
2021-08-18T13:46:19 < qyx> ok this is cube, I'm out
2021-08-18T13:46:27 < Spirit532> just look at the thing
2021-08-18T13:47:18 < Steffanx> No, some DSP englishman  
2021-08-18T13:47:47 < qyx> what should I see, on the first picture it is obvious it doesn't generate anything because you have 0 in the compare register
2021-08-18T13:48:06 < Spirit532> well yeah, I want to DMA the values into the compare register
2021-08-18T13:48:19 < Steffanx> TMS320C6xxx something
2021-08-18T13:48:42 < Spirit532> 3126/1563 gives me 50% PWM, but it just stays there at 50% duty PWM
2021-08-18T13:48:53 < Spirit532> it's completely ignoring DMA transfers, if they are even happening
2021-08-18T13:49:02 < qyx> I understand what do you want to do but I am not sure you can do it with a single DMA channel
2021-08-18T13:49:23 < Spirit532> what _should_ I do here?
2021-08-18T13:49:37 < qyx> do you use timer 1 for the actual PWM generation?
2021-08-18T13:49:51 < Spirit532> yes, I want to generate 4 individual PWM outputs with varying duty cycles
2021-08-18T13:50:11 < Spirit532> to make 4 sines(after filtering), each offset
2021-08-18T13:50:14 < qyx> you need to trigger the DMA somehow at the rate timer 1 reloads
2021-08-18T13:50:21 < qyx> there are multiple options
2021-08-18T13:50:27 < Spirit532> isn't that what circular supposed to do on its own?
2021-08-18T13:50:28 < qyx> update event is one of them
2021-08-18T13:51:37 < Spirit532> what I don't get is why DMA simply _doesn't work_ for CH1 even though I'm starting it in circular mode
2021-08-18T13:51:54 < Spirit532> the output of CH1 is just the 50% duty thing set by the pulse/ccr register
2021-08-18T13:52:48 < qyx> did you read the DMA section of the RM?
2021-08-18T13:52:57 < Spirit532> no
2021-08-18T13:53:05 < qyx> so start there
2021-08-18T13:53:17 < qyx> and don't assume things
2021-08-18T13:53:29 < Spirit532> very helpful answer
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2021-08-18T13:54:17 < qyx> it is hard to seek help with this attitude
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2021-08-18T13:56:38 < Spirit532> "go read the manual" isn't exactly help
2021-08-18T13:57:11 < Spirit532> especially when you don't even specify which one
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2021-08-18T14:04:31 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Pqkvy.png
2021-08-18T14:04:53 < Spirit532> To experiment, I changed it to a single timer channel being driven by just one DMA channel
2021-08-18T14:05:31 < Spirit532> Then I run HAL_TIM_PWM_Start_DMA(&htim1, TIM_CHANNEL_1, tim1_buf, tim1_bufsize);
2021-08-18T14:05:51 < Spirit532> and this is tim1_buf
2021-08-18T14:05:52 < Spirit532> __attribute__((aligned(4))) uint32_t tim1_buf [tim1_bufsize] = { 1833, 2096, 2343, 2566, 2758, 2914, 3029, 3100, 3124, 3100, 3029, 2914, 2758, 2566, 2343, 2096, 1833, 1562, 1290, 1027, 781, 557, 365, 209, 94, 23, 0, 23, 94, 209, 365, 557, 780, 1027, 1290, 1562 };
2021-08-18T14:06:04 < Spirit532> and the output just stays at the 50% duty value in the init.
2021-08-18T14:41:29 < zyp> how the fuck do you expect people tell you which manual to read when you haven't even specified which chip you're using?
2021-08-18T14:42:51 < Spirit532> y'know, "reference manual" or something
2021-08-18T14:43:14 < Spirit532> but the issue I'm having shouldn't be relevant to the chip
2021-08-18T14:43:46 < zyp> qyx said reference manual…
2021-08-18T14:44:02 < Spirit532> DMA into CCR is just Not Working
2021-08-18T14:45:03 < zyp> that suggests that either the DMA job is not configured correctly, or it's not getting triggered correctly
2021-08-18T14:45:12 < zyp> I would guess the latter
2021-08-18T14:45:20 < zyp> have you turned on dma requests?
2021-08-18T14:45:49 < zyp> also, since you haven't specified which chip you've got, does it have a DMAMUX or not?
2021-08-18T14:48:26 < Spirit532> it's an F4, no DMAMUX
2021-08-18T14:49:31 < Spirit532> I found the issue... or at least a symptom - it seems to be refusing to work in center-aligned mode
2021-08-18T14:49:40 < Spirit532> if I set it count up, it works fine
2021-08-18T14:50:36 < Spirit532> ... why would it not be working in center aligned mode?
2021-08-18T15:00:03 < ventyl> maybe because it is buggy?
2021-08-18T15:00:24 < Spirit532> maybe
2021-08-18T15:00:30 < Spirit532> I'm sure not going to investigate it any further
2021-08-18T15:03:46 < ventyl> nobody is
2021-08-18T15:07:44 < jpa-> center aligned mode may need a different way of triggering the DMA request
2021-08-18T15:07:51 < jpa-> because it is not overflowing
2021-08-18T15:08:06 < Spirit532> where should I go to figure out how quickly DMA is actually cycling the data, mathematically?
2021-08-18T15:08:27 < jpa-> what does that mean?
2021-08-18T15:08:39 < qyx> it means he is lazy to check the RM
2021-08-18T15:08:45 < jpa-> sure, that much is clear
2021-08-18T15:08:50 < Spirit532> the goal here is to use 4 channels(arrays of CCR values) to make 2 sine waves with 90 degrees of phase offset
2021-08-18T15:09:35 < Spirit532> each channel is responsible for half the wave
2021-08-18T15:10:17 < Spirit532> so I need to do some math to change both the frequency of the sine and its amplitude
2021-08-18T15:11:04 < Spirit532> amplitude I get, that's just scaling the CCR values, but I'm not sure how to figure out how fast DMA will transfer the array, to calculate how many values I need in the array for the desired frequency
2021-08-18T15:11:15 < jpa-> DMA just transfers the specified amount of data each time you give it the trigger
2021-08-18T15:11:24 < jpa-> it depends entirely on the trigger you configure it to use
2021-08-18T15:11:30 < Spirit532> I start it in circular mode
2021-08-18T15:11:35 < jpa-> that is not the trigger
2021-08-18T15:11:37 < qyx> it doesn't matter
2021-08-18T15:11:46 < Spirit532> well, I start it whenever I start it
2021-08-18T15:12:15 < jpa-> i mean "DMA request" or whatever the ref man calls it, the trigger for each item
2021-08-18T15:12:31 < Spirit532> I feel like I'm missing something obvious here
2021-08-18T15:12:45 < jpa-> DMA transfers data each time it gets a DMA request
2021-08-18T15:12:58 < jpa-> if DMA requests come at 100 kHz, data is transferred at 100 kHz
2021-08-18T15:13:01 < Spirit532> what's triggering those requests in this case?
2021-08-18T15:13:11 < jpa-> whatever you have configured to
2021-08-18T15:13:37 < jpa-> probably the timer, but even the timer can be configured in many ways, in the DMA & Interrupt Enable Register (TIMx->DIER)
2021-08-18T15:14:13 < Spirit532> I think cube abstracts some of this away
2021-08-18T15:14:56 < jpa-> cube makes newbies even dumber than they'd be otherwise
2021-08-18T15:15:06 < ventyl> not much and in very wrong way
2021-08-18T15:15:28 < Spirit532> in the DMA request settings, I only see stuff related to data size, fifo, mode, and increment
2021-08-18T15:15:54 < Spirit532> but setting it to circular mode and starting it once keeps it running indefinitely, and continuously
2021-08-18T15:16:00 < jpa-> STM32 DMA is funny in that the DMA request source is configured at the peripheral that sends the trigger, not at the DMA controller
2021-08-18T15:16:21 < Spirit532> yep, and it tells me nothing about what's triggering this
2021-08-18T15:16:38 < jpa-> well, you have configured all the peripherals, you should know :)
2021-08-18T15:16:39 < Spirit532> with the ADC peripheral it at least gives me the courtesy of telling me it'll trigger itself 
2021-08-18T15:16:40 < ventyl> > The program no longer exists.
2021-08-18T15:16:43 < ventyl> thanks gdb
2021-08-18T15:16:59 < jpa-> check the timer DIER register and compare against ref man
2021-08-18T15:17:28 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Si6hn.png
2021-08-18T15:17:33 < Spirit532> at best all I see is this
2021-08-18T15:17:43 < jpa-> i mean, with a debugger
2021-08-18T15:17:50 < jpa-> not some cube trash
2021-08-18T15:18:10 < Spirit532> and I wanted to avoid that so much :P
2021-08-18T15:18:25 < karlp> faster than asking other people to do it :)
2021-08-18T15:18:45 < jpa-> you avoid using a tool that actually solves your problems, and want to use a tool that creates more problems?
2021-08-18T15:19:10 < jpa-> that's a weirdly complex way not to get things done
2021-08-18T15:19:25 < Spirit532> I prefer to do things as quickly as possible because I hate writing code
2021-08-18T15:19:28 < Spirit532> it leads to this sometimesd
2021-08-18T15:19:46 < ventyl> so, please relax and enjoy fruits of your approach
2021-08-18T15:19:55  * karlp hands out refreshments
2021-08-18T15:20:14 < jpa-> go use arduino, it does a much better job of abstracting away the hardware than cube
2021-08-18T15:20:21 < Spirit532> arduino sucks
2021-08-18T15:20:30 < jpa-> sure, and so does cube, if you haven't noticed already
2021-08-18T15:20:47 < Spirit532> at least cube sucks a lot less
2021-08-18T15:20:57 < jpa-> i don't agree
2021-08-18T15:21:15 < Spirit532> if something in arduino doesn't work, you have to dig into badly written C++ abstraction hell
2021-08-18T15:21:32 < Spirit532> if something here doesn't work, you can at least proceed to walking out the window right away
2021-08-18T15:21:40 < jpa-> if something in cube doesn't work, you have to dig into three layers of badly written C "abstraction" hell
2021-08-18T15:21:59 < englishman> cube has a debugger
2021-08-18T15:22:04 < Spirit532> at least I can just keep hitting "step into" and then googling the lowest level of hell here
2021-08-18T15:22:15 < Spirit532> 99% of the time it works 75% of the time
2021-08-18T15:25:09 < Spirit532> well, I've solved this problem empirically, and found an extra cycle that doesn't belong there
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2021-08-18T15:25:55 < Spirit532> HAL_TIM_PWM_Start_DMA(&htim1, TIM_CHANNEL_1, buf, 3); with buf[] = {100%, 0, 0, 0...} gets me 50% PWM... 
2021-08-18T15:26:53 < ventyl> Spirit532: so, if I understand it correctly, you have your DMA running freely at whatever pace and you recalculate content of DMA buffer to get period you want?
2021-08-18T15:27:12 < Spirit532> size
2021-08-18T15:27:41 < ventyl> how do you drive period then if DMA is running freely?
2021-08-18T15:27:50 < Spirit532> well, size and content, since I need to change both the frequency of the waveform and its amplitude
2021-08-18T15:27:54 < Spirit532> derive, you mean?
2021-08-18T15:28:00 < ventyl> *drive
2021-08-18T15:28:14 < ventyl> DMA stuffs DAC with data at some arbitrary pace
2021-08-18T15:28:20 < Spirit532> no DAC here
2021-08-18T15:28:24 < Spirit532> DMA -> CCR
2021-08-18T15:28:26 < ventyl> how do you get the period you want?
2021-08-18T15:28:28 < ventyl> well, whatever
2021-08-18T15:29:07 < Spirit532> I guess I'm going to have to set up another timer to trigger the DMA and do timing that way
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2021-08-18T15:29:43 < Spirit532> the issue is I don't know how "long" each value in the buffer is
2021-08-18T15:31:16 < englishman> jpa-: were you kidding about gd32cubemx btw
2021-08-18T15:34:19 < jpa-> englishman: kidding in the sense that it is not called "cube" and it has no fancy gui; but not kidding in the sense that the GD32 vendor library code appears cleaner and better designed than ST's libraries
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2021-08-18T15:35:07 < englishman> ah, but they don't yet have a java code generator written by french interns?
2021-08-18T15:36:29 < jpa-> i hope they never will :)
2021-08-18T15:38:28 < jpa->  /* rajout vendredi */   like some unknown french colleague left as the only comment in code
2021-08-18T15:41:50 < englishman> haha
2021-08-18T15:42:08 < englishman> might as well leave a bunch of TODO: lying around 
2021-08-18T15:42:57 < ventyl>  /* Fuck me gently with the chainsaw */
2021-08-18T15:43:54 < mawk> "going to add the rest friday"
2021-08-18T15:44:04 < mawk> did he add the rest friday jpa- ?
2021-08-18T15:45:05 < mawk> don't badmouth ST that's illegal
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2021-08-18T15:45:35 < jpa-> mawk: the code sure looks like he did!
2021-08-18T15:45:39 < englishman> Some guy from st wants me to add him on dickedin
2021-08-18T15:45:50 < englishman> should I ask him about stocks
2021-08-18T15:46:31 < mawk> délit d'initié
2021-08-18T15:46:35 < mawk> englishman in jail
2021-08-18T15:47:30 < jpa-> ask him why lattice is +700% but ST -50% compared to stock market index
2021-08-18T15:53:01 < aandrew> stepping through HAL is *trivial* compared to dicking around in C++ hell
2021-08-18T15:53:14 < Steffanx> Julien, englishman ?
2021-08-18T15:53:31 < englishman> that doesnt appear to be true jpa
2021-08-18T15:53:34 < Steffanx> The terrier dog.
2021-08-18T15:53:44 < englishman> oh was he spamming steffs
2021-08-18T15:54:06 < aandrew> englishman: jpa's not lying about GD32's library not being bad at all
2021-08-18T15:54:06 < ventyl> aandrew: language is irrelevant here. I guess that arduino is barely using virtual methods excessively, so C++ boils down to syntactic sugar
2021-08-18T15:54:12 < aandrew> and it's WAAAAY smaller
2021-08-18T15:54:21 < Steffanx> I think he liked our IRC skills, englishman  
2021-08-18T15:55:14 < englishman> both lattice and st have outperformed spy in 5y, 2y, 1y periods
2021-08-18T15:55:57 < aandrew> ventyl: is your PWM DMA function really taking % PWM? I haven't used DMA mode but the PWM stuff I did was all taking counts, not %
2021-08-18T15:56:38 < ventyl> aandrew: wrong destination :)
2021-08-18T15:56:53 < jpa-> englishman: oh, i may have mislooked 438% as 43%.. well, small mistakes
2021-08-18T15:57:10 < aandrew> ventyl: ah that's Spirit532, sorry
2021-08-18T15:57:18 < aandrew> coffee level is 0% at this moment
2021-08-18T15:57:34 < Spirit532> aandrew, I'm dumbing it down
2021-08-18T15:57:37 < Spirit532> it obviously takes counts
2021-08-18T15:57:43 < ventyl> which isn't bad idea after all
2021-08-18T15:57:58 < aandrew> Spirit532: when you're describing a problem to a group not working on your code, it's not obvious at all
2021-08-18T15:58:15 < aandrew> it'd be a simple mistake to make too
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2021-08-18T15:59:20 < Spirit532> I'm not sure whether it's actually this simple or not
2021-08-18T16:00:13 < Spirit532> if I divide the measured PWM frequency(accounting for clock drift) by the time each byte "lasts" in the CCR register when I transfer 10 bytes, I get almost exactly(down to cycles) 11
2021-08-18T16:01:49 < Spirit532> so that leads me to believe that DMA is triggered at Timer Frequency / (number of bytes + 1)
2021-08-18T16:03:49 < jpa-> are you actually transferring bytes? because the registers are 16-bit..
2021-08-18T16:06:51 < Spirit532> words, 32 bit
2021-08-18T16:06:59 < Spirit532> brain no worky well
2021-08-18T16:07:16 < Spirit532> 10 transfers of 32 bit words
2021-08-18T16:08:37 < Spirit532> since TIM1->CCRx in my case are all u32
2021-08-18T16:16:30 < jpa-> Spirit532: if you are using the TIMx->DMAR for updating all CCR registers with one DMA stream, the number of words per burst is configured in TIMx->DCR; 11 is one of the possible values, so maybe you've set it to 11?
2021-08-18T16:16:55 < Spirit532> using one dma stream per channel
2021-08-18T16:17:21 < Spirit532> doing it with multiple channels works the same
2021-08-18T16:19:43 < jpa-> so you are using 4 DMA streams? how are you getting triggers for them all? usually a single timer does not have that many dma requests assigned to it
2021-08-18T16:20:34 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/27Np1.png
2021-08-18T16:20:40 < Spirit532> autogenerated by cube, seems to work fine
2021-08-18T16:21:22 < Spirit532> but if I do this
2021-08-18T16:21:23 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/llsew.txt
2021-08-18T16:21:28 < Spirit532> I get a 50% square wave
2021-08-18T16:23:54 < jpa-> hmm ok, so TIM1 has that many requests, nice
2021-08-18T16:24:23 < Spirit532> setting length to 2 gets me the output I think I want
2021-08-18T16:24:42 < Spirit532> so... DMA counts to an equivalent of <= instead of <?
2021-08-18T16:25:55 < jpa-> no idea what cube abstracts that as, but length is usually length and not -1
2021-08-18T16:26:50 < Spirit532> well it seems to be -1
2021-08-18T16:27:10 < Spirit532> if I do len=3 and 1/0/1/0, I get 50% slower PWM
2021-08-18T16:27:12 < Spirit532> as expected
2021-08-18T16:28:58 < Spirit532> well that's weird
2021-08-18T16:29:12 < Spirit532> it works as expected, until len=1, when it just dies
2021-08-18T16:29:18 < Spirit532> ah well, I won't be needing less than that, so it's ok.
2021-08-18T16:30:09 < jpa-> i now understand better why so many codebases are total crap
2021-08-18T16:30:19 < jpa-> just trying random things "it works now, why bother understanding anything"
2021-08-18T16:30:59 < Spirit532> yeah I don't want to dig into the manual to find out why
2021-08-18T16:31:05 < Spirit532> this is a bad prototype, not a serious thing
2021-08-18T16:33:22 < ventyl> there are multiple levels of badness
2021-08-18T16:34:30 < Spirit532> this is the worst one
2021-08-18T16:36:22 < karlp> a wonderful foundaton to build on.
2021-08-18T16:36:52 < Spirit532> there will be no building
2021-08-18T16:36:58 < Spirit532> once this thing is done, it is done
2021-08-18T16:37:09 < ventyl> reminds me of me being ~7 and playing with basic
2021-08-18T16:37:10 < Spirit532> I will have walked away more bitter and questionably more wise
2021-08-18T16:37:21 < ventyl> not understanding why weird shit is happening and hacking it around
2021-08-18T16:37:41 < ventyl> i learned that basic effectively ignores very long variable names silently only more than decade later
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2021-08-18T19:29:16 < englishman> mawk: I learned a new word: potron-minet
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2021-08-18T20:23:46 < qyx> karlp: not satisfied anymore, python's paho mqtt is slow as fuk
2021-08-18T20:23:54 < qyx> mosquitto broker too
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2021-08-18T21:02:25 < zyp> I've only used hbmqtt and emq
2021-08-18T21:02:36 < zyp> haven't really benchmarked those though
2021-08-18T21:02:45 < zyp> I believe emq would be decent, dunno about hbmqtt
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2021-08-18T21:17:32 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-08-18T21:17:35 < Laurenceb> https://wnksensor1.en.alibaba.com/product/60744506246-805696616/WNK_21_I2C_OEM_Small_Ceramic_Capacitive_Industrial_Air_Pressure_Sensor_Pressure_Transducer.html
2021-08-18T21:17:44 < Laurenceb> anyone got any ideas what that IC might be?
2021-08-18T21:29:37 < Steffanx> Stm8 
2021-08-18T21:31:56 < Laurenceb> its a 24bit capacitance to digital convertor with analogue output
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2021-08-18T21:51:13 < Laurenceb> they say its a custom ASIC but I dont believe them
2021-08-18T21:56:24 < qyx> sounds like NE555
2021-08-18T21:56:43 < qyx> very custom
2021-08-18T21:58:29 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-08-18T21:58:58 < Laurenceb> I doubt large scale china manufacturer would bother with tssop-20 for a custom ic, they would wire bond it straight onto the pcb
2021-08-18T21:59:27 < Laurenceb> also their documentation is completely lacking and their other sensors use off the shelf signal conditioning ICs
2021-08-18T22:00:56 < Steffanx> Stm8.
2021-08-18T22:01:17 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: wrong markings unless its a china clone
2021-08-18T22:01:28 < Steffanx> Or custom markings.
2021-08-18T22:01:53 < Laurenceb> 24bit adc is too good for virtually any micro
2021-08-18T22:02:00 < Steffanx> So buy one, get some pin out
2021-08-18T22:02:35 < Laurenceb> already have, but that wont tell me what its full capabilities are
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2021-08-18T22:37:52 < kakium69> nooooo
2021-08-18T22:38:58 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-18T22:40:05 < kakium69> yess
2021-08-18T22:41:54 < kakium69> we had sauna night yesterday steff
2021-08-18T22:42:12 < kakium69> or party-- just me and my friend
2021-08-18T22:42:32 < kakium69> sauna and then we played NES that had only one game
2021-08-18T22:42:39 < Laurenceb> no homo
2021-08-18T22:42:55 < kakium69> yes no
2021-08-18T22:43:08 < ventyl> so, if you perform minimal install of ubuntu, it will deploy full install onto disk and then uninstall a bunch of packages
2021-08-18T22:43:20 < kakium69> likelly yes
2021-08-18T22:43:27 < kakium69> because it's an image nowdays
2021-08-18T22:43:38 < kakium69> it just dumps it to drive
2021-08-18T22:44:01 < ventyl> i am probably doing it wrong, there shall be some minimalistic image for virtual machines
2021-08-18T22:44:04 < kakium69> but you can get that server version
2021-08-18T22:44:23 < ventyl> I need desktop VM
2021-08-18T22:44:24 < kakium69> if you go to downloads and shit and find that "server" image
2021-08-18T22:44:41 < ventyl> hm, but I could promote server image to bare desktop
2021-08-18T22:44:48 < ventyl> nevermind, this one is already downloaded
2021-08-18T22:44:51 < Steffanx> i just install ubuntu in a vm and consider it minimal enough
2021-08-18T22:45:06 < kakium69> then just aptitude install ubuntu-desktop or whatever
2021-08-18T22:45:19 < Steffanx> Eclipse makes it damn large anyway.
2021-08-18T22:45:32 < ventyl> i want to test ubuntu with crappy cisco VPN
2021-08-18T22:45:41 < ventyl> because slackware seems to be way too new for it
2021-08-18T22:45:51 < ventyl> it starts and breaks itself immediately
2021-08-18T22:46:07 < kakium69> why not debian or mint?
2021-08-18T22:46:33 < kakium69> I have not personally touched ubuntu for like.. 10years
2021-08-18T22:46:46 < ventyl> ubuntu has better chance to be supported by corporate tool
2021-08-18T22:46:53 < PaulFertser> Just installed Debian 11 on the server, everything's working fine and predictable.
2021-08-18T22:47:14 < kakium69> and they still deliver .deb
2021-08-18T22:47:19 < kakium69> or not
2021-08-18T22:47:34 < PaulFertser> There's OpenConnect for cisco VPN.
2021-08-18T22:47:38 < ventyl> they deliver automagic .sh
2021-08-18T22:47:44 < ventyl> that's it
2021-08-18T22:47:47 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-18T22:47:53 < kakium69> there is script in there
2021-08-18T22:47:55 < PaulFertser> You do not need proprietary software, OpenConnect is in teh repos.
2021-08-18T22:48:04 < kakium69> you can troubleshoot easily why it's not working
2021-08-18T22:48:19 < PaulFertser> If you do need properitary software for VPN, fuck that VPN, fuck for real!
2021-08-18T22:48:43 < ventyl> that's customer network, not my choice
2021-08-18T22:48:45 < kakium69> maybe he is doing corporate shits?
2021-08-18T22:48:51 < kakium69> ^
2021-08-18T22:48:57 < kakium69> there
2021-08-18T22:49:05 < PaulFertser> I'd delegate shit work someone else :)
2021-08-18T22:49:14 < ventyl> and customer is way to paranoid about source code
2021-08-18T22:49:38 < PaulFertser> I know about proprietary huawei vpn. But cisco should be possible with openconnect.
2021-08-18T22:49:54 < ventyl> so it is ok for it to be on my unencrypted hard drive, but network-wise it can only live inside their heavilly armored servers and be transfered over heavily armored, yet defunct VPN
2021-08-18T22:50:44 < ventyl> well, if I manage to make it working with proprietary client, I can try to make it working with openconnect later
2021-08-18T22:51:40 < ventyl> I've been using this cisco VPN before while working in automotive corpo, so I know it is shit by definition
2021-08-18T22:51:55 < PaulFertser> I was told at work to use that huawei shit to work from home, I just said no. And they gave me OpenVPN access.
2021-08-18T22:52:38 < ventyl> actuallly, Cisco and IBM are trying their best to make Microsoft software looking good
2021-08-18T22:53:20 < PaulFertser> Talking about corporates, was pleasantly surprised with Cumulate Linux.
2021-08-18T22:53:48 < PaulFertser> Hm, no, some other name
2021-08-18T22:54:00 < PaulFertser> Cumulus
2021-08-18T22:54:12 < ventyl> Cumulohumus
2021-08-18T22:54:19 < PaulFertser> Owned by NVidia.
2021-08-18T22:54:47 < ventyl> i've just seen Linus' photo with middle finger :)
2021-08-18T22:55:02 < PaulFertser> Pretty close to upstream Debian, they reused Debian configuration ways as much as reasonably possible for a multi-port high performance switch.
2021-08-18T22:55:54 < PaulFertser> And I downloaded Linux sources and compiled additional modules for a UMTS modem _right on the switch_. And now this switch serves as a masquerading router :)
2021-08-18T22:55:58 < ventyl> is debian still filled with non-upstreamed patches these days?
2021-08-18T22:56:34 < PaulFertser> I wasn't bitten by any lately.
2021-08-18T22:56:43 < ventyl> their presence was my main reason I don't like Debian
2021-08-18T22:56:51 < ventyl> it is also quite hostile to developers
2021-08-18T23:02:19 < kakium69> Laurenceb: we have had many sauna parties and I couldn't help to notice my friend has way bigger peepee than me not that I lookd but with my peripheral vision.. I once complemented him for having big  peepee and he took the complement too
2021-08-18T23:02:43 < Laurenceb> no homo intensifies
2021-08-18T23:02:53 < kakium69> but never talk to strangers in sauna about their privates
2021-08-18T23:08:29 < kakium69> I'm not trying to normalize this we are friends way back. When you go to sauna Laurenceb you don't generally start comparing sizes and complementing each other
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2021-08-18T23:20:01 < kakium69> https://external-preview.redd.it/k1yw2odU8jc0exOV8ilmv0OaiQ5pQCzOvEeiJROtEdg.jpg?auto=webp&s=d26f809b97d0adf5c44e04eda2679bb098c47dbe
2021-08-18T23:22:22 < ventyl> ok, it seems, that VPN doesn't work simply because my account is misconfigured
2021-08-18T23:25:07 < Steffanx> we all know this kakium69. Close in the sauna, large distances at the bust stop
2021-08-18T23:25:52 < kakium69> it's shoulder to shoulder in sauna
2021-08-18T23:26:13 < kakium69> but it's your gang
2021-08-18T23:27:18 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/ycG8SCh indeed
2021-08-18T23:30:08 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/XKtEInp wow steff
2021-08-18T23:30:22 < kakium69> big brain stuff here
2021-08-18T23:33:48 < kakium69> wholesome stuff
2021-08-18T23:41:31 < Steffanx> it happens, but its actually not THAT common
2021-08-18T23:45:01 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-18T23:45:22 < kakium69> it's an exception
2021-08-18T23:45:29 < qyx> inteesting idea
2021-08-18T23:46:38 < kakium69> it's not unheard of in here neather for elderly people to give a room for student in need
2021-08-18T23:46:46 < kakium69> neither*
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2021-08-18T23:48:38 < kakium69> for little or no rent
2021-08-18T23:49:27 < kakium69> usually there is rules too to follow
2021-08-18T23:51:03 < kakium69> but the link implies there is a system in place for it in neatherlands
2021-08-18T23:51:30 < kakium69> something money benefits etc. are tied to it
--- Day changed Thu Aug 19 2021
2021-08-19T00:03:04 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgmAfTf8TaY we played this game
2021-08-19T00:03:28 < kakium69> it's also maybe the first pc game I have ever played
2021-08-19T00:03:40 < kakium69> 1994 pc release
2021-08-19T00:04:33 < aandrew> hah I remember paperboy
2021-08-19T00:06:29 < kakium69> it's still a fine game
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2021-08-19T00:38:43 < kakium69> Steffanx: talking about nakedness makes laurencer to /part
2021-08-19T00:39:48 < kakium69> has he behaived well latelly?
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2021-08-19T00:53:41 < Steffanx> Idk
2021-08-19T01:00:43 < qyx> so this old LT3652 is parallelable according to datasheet
2021-08-19T01:01:02 < qyx> but I searched all the interwebs
2021-08-19T01:01:16 < qyx> three times at least
2021-08-19T01:01:28 < qyx> I couldn't find anyone actually doing that
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2021-08-19T02:03:25 < karlp> qyx: what is "slow" meant to you? and are you using mqtt over websockets or tcp? 
2021-08-19T02:05:11 < qyx> I am dumping raw LED data over it in realtime, about 150 messages per second
2021-08-19T02:05:19 < qyx> tcp over localhost
2021-08-19T02:05:29 < qyx> websockets too, but thats not the part which is slow
2021-08-19T02:07:19 < karlp> so... what is the problem?
2021-08-19T02:07:36 < qyx> only if I knew
2021-08-19T02:08:06 < qyx> the problem is python is consuming about 30% of RPi CPU
2021-08-19T02:08:14 < qyx> when I start to send about 20 messages per second
2021-08-19T02:08:29 < qyx> if it "idles" at about 5/s, the cpu usage is low
2021-08-19T02:09:12 < qyx> but other than that, I would expect most of the delays and slowness is caused by network congestion (localhost), all round trip delays and whatever
2021-08-19T02:09:45 < qyx> which would be noticed as the "slowness", but the system will be idling
2021-08-19T02:10:32 < karlp> you're pubbing at 150/sec, and subbing how many copies? with what qos?
2021-08-19T02:11:09 < qyx> subscribed 3 times, tried even qos=0
2021-08-19T02:11:22 < qyx> using qos=1 normally, but thats doesn't change things
2021-08-19T02:11:35 < karlp> we were subbing at a a decent rate with paho years ago, and the mqtt-malaria shit was pubbing a lot, but honeslt,y  I just don't need to care any more.
2021-08-19T02:11:47 < karlp> I run a broker on our edge device, it performs more than well enough.
2021-08-19T02:12:00 < karlp> I have reports from scalabiity testing, but they're like 8 years old
2021-08-19T02:12:09 < karlp> what sort of message rate are you hoping for?
2021-08-19T02:12:46 < qyx> 16*25, so about 400 per second the worst case
2021-08-19T02:13:03 < qyx> on a rpi 3b
2021-08-19T02:13:07 < qyx> +
2021-08-19T02:14:55 < karlp> I was getting 400 per sec plus back in 2013, you should have no fucking problem, 
2021-08-19T02:15:17 < karlp> subscribe to the $SYS tree and find the queued messages counter and the drop counter,
2021-08-19T02:15:22 < karlp> make sure they're not increasing.
2021-08-19T02:15:33 < karlp> areyou using durable subscribers so they're queueing those qos for later?
2021-08-19T02:16:02 < karlp> you can "forget" about a durable client id sometimes, and end up having messages queued that will never be delievered
2021-08-19T02:16:17 < karlp> particularly if you ahve tuned your max queued messages knobs
2021-08-19T02:17:03 < qyx> websocket clients have random ID but they are not subscribed to all topics
2021-08-19T02:17:10 < qyx> and they are the only thing that works reasonably well
2021-08-19T02:17:20 < qyx> other clients on localhost have static client IDs
2021-08-19T02:17:43 < karlp> do they subscribe with clean session?
2021-08-19T02:17:53 < qyx> yes
2021-08-19T02:17:59 < karlp> all of them?
2021-08-19T02:18:03 < qyx> I am only interested in retained messages
2021-08-19T02:18:04 < qyx> yes
2021-08-19T02:18:19 < karlp> just an easy thing that can cause the amoutn of messages processed to be far more than you think...
2021-08-19T02:18:33 < qyx> I'll double check
2021-08-19T02:18:34 < karlp> how big are you messages?
2021-08-19T02:18:44 < qyx> under 10 bytes
2021-08-19T02:18:57 < qyx> usually just a html color identifier
2021-08-19T02:19:10 < qyx> so #000000, or "black", or "rgb(0, 100, 100)"
2021-08-19T02:20:13 < qyx> thanks for the hints, I'll check the thing again tomorrow
2021-08-19T02:20:18 < qyx> uhm, today
2021-08-19T02:20:27 < karlp> hassle me in #mqtt later, there's others around too.
2021-08-19T02:20:52 < qyx> okay
2021-08-19T02:21:09 < qyx> from other news, 25 pieces of G4 are coming from mouser
2021-08-19T02:21:20 < karlp> but skimming my old reports, I was getting 500msgs per sec, at 500 bytes per message, across about 100-1000 clients publishing, with a single subscriber, with around 20% cpu on an old aws t1 micro, on old mosquitto 1.3
2021-08-19T02:21:29 < karlp> there's been a lot of perf improvements since then.
2021-08-19T02:21:58 < qyx> so my aim should be easily achievable then
2021-08-19T02:23:37 < karlp> for giggles, this is how you can see an aws .micro instance enter cpu throttling mode :) https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WgGHH/collected-ip-172-31-9-55-output.log.2013-11-05.103852.png
2021-08-19T02:25:52 < karlp> and you could... sort of, with a bit of luck, use this to reproduce that sort of thing: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/NsP3Y
2021-08-19T02:27:43 < karlp> and/or https://github.com/etactica/mqtt-malaria/blob/master/README-swarm.md
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2021-08-19T14:58:57 < Laurenceb> top fucking keeekkkk
2021-08-19T14:59:31 < Laurenceb> >nasaspaceflight users are voluntarily pixelating parts of ""starship"" to keep Musk happy
2021-08-19T14:59:39 < Laurenceb> absolutely cucked
2021-08-19T15:00:09 < Laurenceb> its not even the mods censoring shit
2021-08-19T15:00:20 < PaulFertser> Why is Musk happy when certain parts are pixelated?
2021-08-19T15:00:34 < Laurenceb> so the secrets arent revealed
2021-08-19T15:00:44 < PaulFertser> Where the photos are from then?
2021-08-19T15:00:48 < PaulFertser> Not public place?
2021-08-19T15:00:59 < Laurenceb> yeah public land at side of the site
2021-08-19T15:01:17 < jpa-> newest starship is modeled after musk's dick, but he's a bit shy about it
2021-08-19T15:01:21 < Laurenceb> lul
2021-08-19T15:02:25 < Laurenceb> keeekkk apparently musk threatened to report them to the fbi
2021-08-19T15:03:28 < Laurenceb> Musk is a jerk, hes just less of one than Bezos
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2021-08-19T15:46:22 < ventyl> 3 hour-long tour through facility doesn't fit this
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2021-08-19T16:04:37 < karlp> musk is less openly a jerk?
2021-08-19T16:05:20 < karlp> so, how come no-one told me 2.5mm TRS sockets were so nice and cute and small?!
2021-08-19T16:24:29 < jpa-> how didn't you know it?
2021-08-19T16:40:55 < karlp> no idea.
2021-08-19T16:41:11 < karlp> think I was fixated on the idea of a segmented mate-n-lok style thing
2021-08-19T16:41:25 < karlp> but 2.5mm trs sockets are only 5mm wide
2021-08-19T16:41:37 < karlp> hooray through hole. fuck ya surface mount
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2021-08-19T17:04:26 < karlp> ok, nextpcb order in, let's see how they look, specs ar enice prices reasonable.
2021-08-19T17:04:36 < karlp> webstore... a little slow and wonky wording...
2021-08-19T17:12:59 < qyx> what are you going to use them for
2021-08-19T17:13:13 < qyx> current measurement coils?
2021-08-19T17:17:07 < karlp> tossing up between https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/pcb_headers/2125280200 and some little 2.5mm trs sockets, yeah
2021-08-19T17:18:19 < qyx> I would go for microfit because of locking but it mates a bit hard, unmates even harder
2021-08-19T17:18:25 < qyx> and you cannot rotate the cable/strain relief
2021-08-19T17:20:31 < qyx> I still don't know what to use to connect sensors to alu front panels, NI uses mini-XLR and mini D-SUB/MDR, idk if they were that desperate
2021-08-19T17:21:12 < qyx> avoiding mini-XLR, I am not gonna use those
2021-08-19T17:21:19 < karlp> yeah, I don't think the latching is really all that important, you get latching on TRS too, and it's not carrying any weight.
2021-08-19T17:21:45 < karlp> I'm pretty sure I can get nicer cable assemblies with 2.5mm trs as well, rather than the microfit.
2021-08-19T17:23:42 < jpa-> i guess it is not a problem for you, but i was unpleasantly surprised with the poor behavior at >= 1 MHz of the PVC insulation in shielded TRS cable assemblies
2021-08-19T17:24:57 < qyx> I would be surprised by if there were any shielding
2021-08-19T17:26:35 < karlp> yeah, not really a problem for me.
2021-08-19T17:26:44 < qyx> (in molded assemblies)
2021-08-19T17:26:51 < jpa-> audio stuff is commonly shielded
2021-08-19T17:27:15 < karlp> also, this will be the exising cabling rfom the vendor that was coming as bare wires (inside shield) and we'll just ask them to put on the 2.5mm jack
2021-08-19T17:28:14 < karlp> microfit stuff is hard to get heatshrink aroudn the outside nicely, whereas 2.5mm plug stuff has the shrouding all built in
2021-08-19T17:33:15 < qyx> jpa-: like this? https://retro-access.com/blogs/news/why-75-ohm-coax-cabling-is-the-best-cable-for-video-signals
2021-08-19T17:33:34 < qyx> I usually encounter this type of shielding
2021-08-19T17:48:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog's motor bike display concept is soo cool. Wished I had one.
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2021-08-19T18:44:20 < Mangy_Dog> thank you
2021-08-19T18:44:28 < Mangy_Dog> ill be revisiting it at some point in the nearish future
2021-08-19T18:44:36 < Mangy_Dog> projects to do list
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2021-08-19T19:07:40 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: have you studied art professionally?
2021-08-19T19:07:50 < Mangy_Dog> na
2021-08-19T19:07:56 < Mangy_Dog> just self taught
2021-08-19T19:08:29 < Mangy_Dog> my background is graphics and vfx before i got into embedded
2021-08-19T19:09:53 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I have an impression you are really talented in the visual aspect of it. All those colours, gradients, spacings. I can't even imagine how you make it all match so well.
2021-08-19T19:14:22 < Mangy_Dog> guided luck id sayt
2021-08-19T19:14:30 < Mangy_Dog> theres an element of luck
2021-08-19T19:15:05 < Mangy_Dog> but you put in the ideas and work that helps make the project lean to the goal where luck just helps it come together
2021-08-19T19:15:06 < PaulFertser> That font of yours has an interesting slightly confusing digit "1". While everything is sans serif and "6" is even lacking the upper horizontal line digit 1 has plenty of them :)
2021-08-19T19:16:14 < Mangy_Dog> i cant remember which font i used in that... (was a few years ago)
2021-08-19T19:16:30 < Mangy_Dog> but usually i do my concept and as look concept in photoshop
2021-08-19T19:16:38 < Mangy_Dog> and i cycle through loads of fonts till i find one that fits
2021-08-19T19:17:54 < PaulFertser> btw, an idea about lean angles: you're not supposed to look at the dash while actually leaning but you might want to know how far it was right after, so probably something like a "peak detector" can be added there.
2021-08-19T19:19:41 < Mangy_Dog> hehe indeed probebly wasnt the smartest idea
2021-08-19T19:22:36 < PaulFertser> Also would probably make the first and the last gears different colour so that you could easily detect with a side vision that there's no previous/next.
2021-08-19T19:22:54 < Steffann> What thingy of Mangy_Dog  is PaulFertser talking?
2021-08-19T19:22:57 < Steffann> About
2021-08-19T19:23:27 < Mangy_Dog> an old bike speedometer project i never finished
2021-08-19T19:23:27 < Steffann> The thing on imgur somewhere?
2021-08-19T19:23:44 < PaulFertser> Steffann: yes, in the beginning somewhere
2021-08-19T19:23:57 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/Gd7v6aOUmMA
2021-08-19T19:24:19 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/c2FyogFpNzA
2021-08-19T19:24:34 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/QtLtihhfuvk
2021-08-19T19:24:59 < Steffann> What did you use for this?
2021-08-19T19:25:02 < MrMobius> Mangy_Dog, what were you using or going to use to sense wheel revolutions?
2021-08-19T19:25:29 < Mangy_Dog> well when i revisit the project, ill be using the built in sensor on the bike
2021-08-19T19:25:36 < Steffann> Oh its a video, nothing "real"
2021-08-19T19:25:37 < MrMobius> ah
2021-08-19T19:25:41 < Mangy_Dog> yeah nothing real yet
2021-08-19T19:25:45 < Mangy_Dog> i will make it though :p
2021-08-19T19:25:51 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2021-08-19T19:25:53 < PaulFertser> Modern bikes have OBD II
2021-08-19T19:26:00 < Mangy_Dog> the ui isnt a video the ui is code
2021-08-19T19:26:04 < MrMobius> im working on one myself and got a reed relay instead of a reed switch which is what i should have gotten
2021-08-19T19:26:12 < Mangy_Dog> my bike uses kline not obd
2021-08-19T19:26:23 < Mangy_Dog> but the speed is a pulse signal
2021-08-19T19:26:36 < Mangy_Dog> so ill have to figure out how many pulses per rev
2021-08-19T19:26:45 < Mangy_Dog> the rpm... i think is data
2021-08-19T19:26:51 < Mangy_Dog> i need to check the wire out again
2021-08-19T19:27:28 < PaulFertser> What's your annual mileage?
2021-08-19T19:27:32 < Mangy_Dog> The gear isnt even a physical gear detection on my bike... it uses a mixture of speed and rev to aproximate what gear its in
2021-08-19T19:27:42 < Mangy_Dog> on my bike? a couple thousand miles 
2021-08-19T19:28:04 < Mangy_Dog> if i had a job to commute to, it would be a good deal more
2021-08-19T19:29:05 < Steffann> Cant go back in the gfx business or wont?
2021-08-19T19:29:24 < Steffann> Sounds like something that can  be done online perfectly
2021-08-19T19:29:29 < Mangy_Dog> i dont live in london any mroe and no longer have any contacts
2021-08-19T19:29:38 < mawk> where do you live
2021-08-19T19:29:44 < Mangy_Dog> ive tried to go back but its hard to find a way back in now
2021-08-19T19:29:46 < Mangy_Dog> uk
2021-08-19T19:30:26 < Steffann> Where do you live, mawk 
2021-08-19T19:31:54 < mawk> in a weird country
2021-08-19T19:34:30 < Steffann> I feel your pain
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2021-08-19T20:15:39 < qyx> london doesn't want immigrants?
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2021-08-19T21:43:10 < sauce> goodness me look at the time
2021-08-19T21:43:14 < sauce> it's musicspam o'clock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQq3Jwz0bDQ
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2021-08-19T22:29:20 < kakium69> ventyl
2021-08-19T22:29:24 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S2H01Q8WVQDKuij3AYgBSEETCT7Y6yaz/view?usp=sharing
2021-08-19T22:29:58 < mawk> music is never spam sauce 
2021-08-19T22:30:02 < mawk> except if it's dubstep
2021-08-19T22:31:10 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHTQ8r9pQU
2021-08-19T22:31:14 < kakium69> mawk
2021-08-19T22:31:39 < mawk> lol
2021-08-19T22:52:17 < Steffann> Imagine the guy being your neighbour kakium69 . 
2021-08-19T22:52:33 < Steffann> Music must be pretty damn loud in that case
2021-08-19T22:52:38 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-19T22:52:49 < kakium69> my walls are vibrating
2021-08-19T22:53:06 < kakium69> there is no sound outside
2021-08-19T22:53:19 < kakium69> they have so large subwoofer it makes infrasounds
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2021-08-20T02:18:32 < Laurenceb> cuck 4 musk
2021-08-20T02:18:53 < Laurenceb> hes not gunna be the worlds richest unless you lend him ur support
2021-08-20T02:19:17 < Laurenceb> why not launder some money for him, that way he can dodge some more tax
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2021-08-20T02:22:27 < kakium69> can I do dumb shit?
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2021-08-20T10:04:37 < qyx> ##windows32 question: a device is using either CDC-ACM or something other to access a UART to USB bridge, it appears as COM5
2021-08-20T10:05:03 < qyx> now there are two problems, the thing is unstable, USB disconnects and when it reconnects, it appears as random COMx
2021-08-20T10:05:52 < qyx> my win-fu is not strong enough
2021-08-20T10:20:25 < mawk> you can fix the COM in the device manager panel iirc qyx 
2021-08-20T10:20:59 < mawk> otherwise see this: https://aticleworld.com/get-com-port-of-usb-serial-device/
2021-08-20T10:21:10 < mawk> they provide shitty WIN32API C code to autodetect the COM number
2021-08-20T10:21:14 < mawk> qyx: 
2021-08-20T10:21:57 < qyx> I would rather set it to be static based on serial or whatever
2021-08-20T10:23:22 < mawk> I'm not sure that's possible
2021-08-20T10:23:28 < mawk> but I think it is
2021-08-20T10:23:41 < mawk> go into the device manager and see the options you have in the "COM device" or whatever tab
2021-08-20T10:23:44 < mawk> for your device
2021-08-20T10:23:50 < mawk> win+x device manager
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2021-08-20T10:39:09 < Steffann> Doesn't windows prefer to stick to the same comport?
2021-08-20T10:40:11 < Steffann> I tested 40 boards and each time windows would do comport+2
2021-08-20T10:40:24 < mawk> that depends
2021-08-20T10:40:36 < mawk> if the board just flashes quickly because of a shitty cable or something, I don't think it takes the same COM port
2021-08-20T10:49:18 < ventyl> COM99:
2021-08-20T10:49:22 < ventyl> System error
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2021-08-20T11:40:08 < Fleck> so, stm32h743vit6, hal,  SPI6, missing first bit when receiving if prescale is less than 128, 128 works, 64 and less is not working while logic analyzer shows correct data, ideas?
2021-08-20T11:42:16 < Fleck> upper 4 bytes are what I receive, and first 4 bytes what they should be...: https://pasteboard.co/KgJDKTE.png
2021-08-20T11:42:38 < ventyl> h7 spi...
2021-08-20T11:42:45  * ventyl shivers
2021-08-20T11:43:20 < zyp> hang on, it's probably the usual SPI errata
2021-08-20T11:43:59 < ventyl> Fleck: which revision chip it is? h7 has afaik 3 or 4 revisions. first one or two are kind of unusable trash
2021-08-20T11:44:22 < Fleck> ventyl: no clue
2021-08-20T11:44:40 < ventyl> can you check package and then consult the errata?
2021-08-20T11:45:12 < ventyl> IIRC, last letter in 3rd line (X, Y, V, ...) denotes revision
2021-08-20T11:45:24 < zyp> hmm, no, errata sheet for that chip doesn't list the issue I'm thinking of
2021-08-20T11:45:38 < ventyl> H7 has completely different SPI than previous chips
2021-08-20T11:45:58 < zyp> I don't see any points about losing first bit
2021-08-20T11:46:39 < Fleck> last letter in 3rd line is Q
2021-08-20T11:46:41 < jpa-> Fleck: is it SPI slave or SPI master?
2021-08-20T11:46:45 < Fleck> master
2021-08-20T11:46:56 < jpa-> so it generates clock correctly, but fails in receiving bits?
2021-08-20T11:46:58 < ventyl> I didn't see this kind of problems, but H7 SPI acted weirdly
2021-08-20T11:46:59 < Fleck> receiving data from slave, slave is MAX31865 chip
2021-08-20T11:47:30 < Fleck> jpa-: yeah, LA shows correct values at least...
2021-08-20T11:47:44 < jpa-> are the MISO and SCK signals well-aligned and correct phase relationship on logic analyzer? because there is always some delay on SCK -> MISO, and if it is too much compared to SCK speed, things start to fail
2021-08-20T11:47:48 < Fleck> and if set to 128 - also H7 shows the same values
2021-08-20T11:48:33 < zyp> maybe MISO is rising too slowly
2021-08-20T11:48:55 < zyp> I'd check with scope rather than LA
2021-08-20T11:50:38 < ventyl> wouldn't that cause undeterministic garbage being received rather than first bit missing?
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2021-08-20T11:52:22 < Fleck> yeah and why is LA working OK even with prescaler 16
2021-08-20T11:52:45 < jpa-> ventyl: first bit missing is a subset of undeterministic garbage
2021-08-20T11:52:59 < ventyl> but very deterministic subset
2021-08-20T11:53:11 < jpa-> (and if the MISO delay is constant, it is not strange to get quite deterministic garbage
2021-08-20T11:53:33 < Fleck> revision is V
2021-08-20T11:53:42 < ventyl> that's third revision
2021-08-20T11:53:56 < ventyl> that's mostly okaish
2021-08-20T11:54:05 < Fleck> for LQFP100 it was 2nd line last letter
2021-08-20T11:54:30 < ventyl> mine's BGA, part no had to be split into two lines
2021-08-20T11:55:37 < jpa-> Fleck: oh, and have you configured the SCK GPIO to high speed output?
2021-08-20T11:55:53 < Fleck> jpa-: no but I tried that - did not help! :)
2021-08-20T11:56:00 < Fleck> I can try again tho...
2021-08-20T11:56:02 < jpa-> because if it is slow speed, the SCK signal that gets to slave and that you see on logic analyzer will be delayed, but the SPI block will use the internal signal that is not delayed :)
2021-08-20T11:57:14 < Fleck> http://p.rullz.lv/iwufabacis.cpp
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2021-08-20T12:05:29 < Fleck> how to go - peal some potatoes, thank you guys for ideas,and your time!
2021-08-20T12:13:23 < jpa-> Fleck: it appears you have SPI in CPOL=0, CPHA=0 mode while MAX31865 datasheet specifies CPHA=1
2021-08-20T12:14:22 < Fleck> hmm, no, LA is in CPHA 1 and CPOL 1 mode, wuuut?
2021-08-20T12:14:30 < Fleck> what am I missing
2021-08-20T12:17:03 < Fleck> if I set LA to CPHA 0 then I get errors in LA...
2021-08-20T12:17:25 < mawk> disable the SPI mode of your LA and just look at the trace
2021-08-20T12:17:38 < mawk> then you confirm polarity and clock phase
2021-08-20T12:19:34 < Fleck> well, I did that, I can clealry see my clock line being HIGH while idling...
2021-08-20T12:20:04 < mawk> what about the phase?
2021-08-20T12:21:12 < mawk> so you see the clock falling edge on the middle of the data pulse
2021-08-20T12:26:01 < jpa-> Fleck: well that's probably why you also get errors in STM32H7 SPI when it is set to CPHA 0..
2021-08-20T12:27:16 < jpa-> hmm, your code appears to set   hspi.Init.CLKPolarity = SPI_NSS_POLARITY_LOW;   which is obviously wrong, but should be equivalent to  SPI_POLARITY_LOW
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2021-08-20T12:33:35 < Fleck> LOL how did that happen, thanks jpa-, thats obv. wrong...
2021-08-20T12:33:38 < karlp> don't suppose anyone knows how to force weechat to rehash nicks for nick colouring after editing the weechat.color.chat_nick_colors setting?
2021-08-20T12:34:59 < karlp> nvm: https://github.com/weechat/weechat/issues/457
2021-08-20T12:35:38 < jpa-> karlp: what color did you give me?
2021-08-20T12:35:47 < Fleck> jpa-: yep, thats fixed! works with prescaler 16 now, doooh, thanks a lot!!! dunno after how many days I would notice that error... now CPOL = HIGH and CPHA = 2EDGE
2021-08-20T12:35:49 < Fleck> works!
2021-08-20T12:36:00 < jpa-> :)
2021-08-20T12:37:51 < karlp> jpa-: I didn't give anyone colours explicitly, just expanded the list of what colours could be used.
2021-08-20T12:38:11 < karlp> it's actually.... fixed. when people spoke again it used a new colour, just he scrollback is wonky.
2021-08-20T12:38:33 < karlp> that's ok, can live with that.
2021-08-20T12:38:43 < karlp> now just need to lear a few new colours I guess.
2021-08-20T12:38:48 < karlp> better than all the overlaps it used to have
2021-08-20T12:39:06 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FGxwY.png
2021-08-20T12:41:24 < jpa-> karlp: i guess i'll need to hilight you on every line to get that cute purple
2021-08-20T12:45:04 < karlp> well, anyone who highlights gets the purple...
2021-08-20T12:45:59 < karlp> heh, pcb place just got back with questions....
2021-08-20T12:46:35 < karlp> never had that before, I guess that happens when yuou do weird shit and go right up to the process limits
2021-08-20T12:52:39 < jpa-> jlcpcb often gets back to me with weird questions
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2021-08-20T12:58:01 < karlp> guess we don't make all that many pcbs either I guess.
2021-08-20T12:58:48 < qyx> jlcpcb never did that to me
2021-08-20T12:59:00 < ventyl> you're not weird enough
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2021-08-20T13:03:19 < Steffann> Me neither. Yay
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2021-08-20T13:21:24 < kakium69> ventyl: did you see my link?
2021-08-20T13:22:09 < ventyl> apparently not
2021-08-20T13:23:24 < qyx> me neither because it didn't work
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2021-08-20T13:24:30 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S2H01Q8WVQDKuij3AYgBSEETCT7Y6yaz/view?usp=sharing
2021-08-20T13:26:42 < ventyl> Y U no USD forks?
2021-08-20T13:26:59 < kakium69> usd?
2021-08-20T13:32:22 < kakium69> ventyl: does damper rod have hydraulics inside?
2021-08-20T13:33:00 < kakium69> because there is one adjustment in the cap bolt at top
2021-08-20T13:33:16 < kakium69> another one is at bottom of fork
2021-08-20T13:34:16 < kakium69> oil was heavily contaminated so I'm thinkin if I need further disassembly to ensure there is no damage / glogging
2021-08-20T13:37:39 < ventyl> kakium69: USD fork = upside down fork
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2021-08-20T13:38:00 < ventyl> kakium69: there are usually damper plates with rebound and/or compression adjustment based
2021-08-20T13:38:37 < ventyl> alternatively, there can be preload setting, which is usually done by screw at the upper end of fork
2021-08-20T13:38:51 < kakium69> I'm just wondering how little screw at top of fork adjust dampening
2021-08-20T13:39:21 < kakium69> there is only like.. rod that connects to damper
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2021-08-20T13:43:19 < ventyl> usually it works in a way, that it preloads spring pressing onto bypass valve for hydraulics
2021-08-20T13:43:50 < ventyl> so part of fluid has to go through damping plates on damper rod and part of fluid goes through bypass valve
2021-08-20T13:44:07 < kakium69> it moves the rod up and down?
2021-08-20T13:44:42 < kakium69> we are not talkin about the spring?
2021-08-20T13:44:50 < kakium69> but some damper spring thing
2021-08-20T13:44:58 < ventyl> there is valve hidden somewhere
2021-08-20T13:45:16 < kakium69> there is clearly a valve inside damper
2021-08-20T13:45:38 < ventyl> where, that depends on construction of damper, I don't have one myself and the only damper having one I've seen had damping cartridge mounted at one end, which contained all the valves
2021-08-20T13:45:53 < kakium69> I pumped the rod and every time I pumped some valve opened and fluid came out
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2021-08-20T13:47:33 < Laurenceb> I have seen the technology work.  Its brilliant.  And like all great new technology it was like seeing magic.  Watching Meredith Perry convert her vision into working technology and watching her a assemble a team of extraordinary talent to work alongside of her has been a privilege.  She is a brilliant founder whose innovation and creativity is
2021-08-20T13:47:33 < Laurenceb> likely to create massive value for all of us who have invested.  And I am pretty confident that we will see a lot more innovation out of her in the coming years.  Count me on the long list of those ready to back her!
2021-08-20T13:49:23 < karlp> doh, 74avc2t245 is 2 bit, 2 direction control pins.
2021-08-20T13:49:44 < karlp> fxl2t245 (on semi, instead of ti) is 2 bit, with _1_ direction control pin, which ti calls 2t45...
2021-08-20T13:51:13 < karlp> ah, nexperia to the rescue
2021-08-20T13:51:31 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-20T13:52:31 < kakium69> nxp has the bestest portfolio of those small logic things
2021-08-20T13:52:50 < kakium69> and newest tech
2021-08-20T13:57:06 < kakium69> and every chip has like 4 different small package options
2021-08-20T13:57:43 < kakium69> newest tech meaning like early 2000s
2021-08-20T14:00:37 < kakium69> - check cap o-ring for damage -> replace
2021-08-20T14:01:03 < kakium69> - always use new cap o-ring
2021-08-20T14:01:19 < kakium69> there is some contradicting statements in this manual
2021-08-20T14:02:28 < kakium69> ventyl ah there is another rod inside the rod
2021-08-20T14:02:50 < kakium69> just a loose rod that comes out if cap is removed
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2021-08-20T14:12:57 < ventyl> kakium69: cap should have spring, which is preloaded by the little screw on the top. and it will have valve-ish something at the other end
2021-08-20T14:13:55 < kakium69> is there any o-rings inside the damper?
2021-08-20T14:14:13 < ventyl> piston should have one
2021-08-20T14:14:16 < ventyl> or maybe two
2021-08-20T14:14:29 < kakium69> some of the gunk looked like rubberish
2021-08-20T14:14:33 < ventyl> then cap may also have some
2021-08-20T14:15:14 < kakium69> bbl>
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2021-08-20T14:50:50 < Laurenceb> keeek onlyfans cucked
2021-08-20T14:50:55 < Laurenceb> what a time to be alive
2021-08-20T14:51:16 < Laurenceb> >porn studios leverage radfems to btfo the thots and protect their business model
2021-08-20T14:52:05 < Laurenceb> inb4 stm32 based monero card
2021-08-20T14:52:13 < sauce> hi
2021-08-20T14:52:55 < Steffann> Hello
2021-08-20T14:53:33 < Steffann> Apparently you can still share your nudes Laurenceb . No wanking.
2021-08-20T14:53:44 < Laurenceb> loll 
2021-08-20T14:53:47 < Steffann> Did you make a lot of money Laurenceb ?
2021-08-20T14:53:49 < Laurenceb> >he does it for free
2021-08-20T14:55:32 < Laurenceb> tfw https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.vDnkjT6tcsdtjlGhKLGYZQHaHc?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
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2021-08-20T14:56:25 < Steffann> Back to work Laurenceb . 
2021-08-20T14:56:39 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-08-20T14:57:01 < Laurenceb> I flashed a bunch of thots on the way to work, and not only did they not pay me, but they called the police
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2021-08-20T17:25:45 < karlp> did I share this here? https://godbolt.org/z/x5M4Ezs7Y
2021-08-20T17:25:49 < karlp> stupid legacy warnings
2021-08-20T17:28:40 < englishman> interesting, but expected
2021-08-20T17:28:58 < englishman> aside, i also love weechat, especially with glowing-bear
2021-08-20T17:30:27 < englishman> char is not a proper type to index an array, int is, but it is not the compiler's problem that c is not strongly typed, would the compiler throw an error if you call ok_even_if_negative passing a char type?
2021-08-20T17:31:35 < englishman> do other compilers throw an error when indexing with int type?
2021-08-20T17:34:33 < englishman> not any of the ones in godbolt but they are all gcc/clang
2021-08-20T17:35:06 < karlp> why is char "not a proper type" to index with?
2021-08-20T17:35:12 < karlp> what makes int "more proper" ?
2021-08-20T17:37:21 < karlp> you can do the literal "myarr[-4]" which is whta the "char might be signed!" warning is trying ot save you from, but you don't get even a warning on that explicit negative use
2021-08-20T17:37:39 < englishman> i always figure char to be numberless. even if it's something in my head.
2021-08-20T17:37:50 < englishman> a literal representation of the binary, instead of a numerical representation
2021-08-20T17:38:10 < sauce> its definitely a numeric type lol
2021-08-20T17:38:27 < englishman> because you can perform math on it?
2021-08-20T17:39:38 < englishman> idk, in my head, char the index of the ascii lookup table, and not a number. you can do math on the index, but it's not a number, yes it's binary. that's just how i think of it
2021-08-20T17:41:10 < sauce> what if you had a typedef called s8
2021-08-20T17:41:11 < karlp> bear in mind, if char was guaranteed to be unsigned, they would have the warning...
2021-08-20T17:41:28 < karlp> so "int" which is singed, is "a-ok!" but _might_ be signed, is "better warn"
2021-08-20T17:42:19 < englishman> maybe because i have never done a lot of 8-bit c programming
2021-08-20T17:42:29 < karlp> you don't have to....
2021-08-20T17:42:34 < sauce> char is explicitly an integer type as per the spec
2021-08-20T17:42:51 < karlp> perhaps... char my_letter = 'e'; /* for englishman */
2021-08-20T17:43:01 < englishman> nice.
2021-08-20T17:43:07 < englishman> isnt char signed on avr
2021-08-20T17:43:25 < karlp> if (isalpha(my_letter)) {  // <<< error, isalpha internally uses and array index op....
2021-08-20T17:43:40 < karlp> that's where this comes from by the way...
2021-08-20T17:46:05 < MrMobius> 8 bit indexes can be much faster on 8 bit chips where the index register is only 8 bits
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2021-08-20T18:01:00 < sauce> karlp: the really funny part is that i[myarr] works fine
2021-08-20T18:01:15 < sauce> and *(myarr+i) etc
2021-08-20T18:01:53 < sauce> i suspect that error actually violates the spec
2021-08-20T18:03:13 < sauce> (oh duh -Werror)
2021-08-20T18:03:16 < karlp> well, it's a _warning_ you get with -Wall.
2021-08-20T18:03:22 < sauce> yeah small brain moment
2021-08-20T18:03:33 < karlp> I think it's a bad warning though.
2021-08-20T18:03:46 < karlp> I don't think it should be in Wall
2021-08-20T18:04:55 < sauce> "This is a common cause of error, as programmers often forget that this type is signed on some machines."
2021-08-20T18:06:33 < karlp> but no warning for using a definitely signed type.
2021-08-20T18:06:38 < sauce> yeaah
2021-08-20T18:10:01 < karlp> jadew: thanks for the yin yin, it's pretty  chill
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2021-08-20T18:19:26 < mawk> ublox gps finds 0 satellites after 10 minutes of searching using a giant antenna, but my phone can find 4380948309483094 satellites in seconds with its puny antenna
2021-08-20T18:19:33 < mawk> I think something is wrong
2021-08-20T18:23:35 < englishman> cold start is cold?
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2021-08-20T18:30:19 < PaulFertser> englishman: no, cold start was relevant only when gps receivers had very limited amount of correlators so they weren't able to be trying to decode the signal from all the sats at the same time.
2021-08-20T18:30:44 < PaulFertser> englishman: even ublox4 had enough to listen to all GPS birds.
2021-08-20T18:31:32 < karlp> it still has to wait for the almanac to download though if it's cold, surely.
2021-08-20T18:31:42 < PaulFertser> karlp: what is almanac useful for?
2021-08-20T18:31:43 < karlp> and that is just straight up bw limited isn't it?
2021-08-20T18:31:48 < karlp> if you're actually cold?
2021-08-20T18:31:57 < karlp> ie, you have no idea where you are, and no almanac at all
2021-08-20T18:31:58 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes
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2021-08-20T18:33:20 < PaulFertser> karlp: it takes 25 minutes to go through full cycle on old L1 GPS. But you do not need any of that data for coordinates. Every sat transmits its precise ephemeris in 30 seconds, that's enough for calculations.
2021-08-20T18:34:42 < PaulFertser> karlp: the only real gotcha about those 25 minutes is that it's just once in that period when UTC-TAI offset is transmitted. So you might be off few seconds when checking NMEA time as its UTC.
2021-08-20T18:35:09 < mawk> karlp: it had 1.5km accuracy
2021-08-20T18:35:15 < mawk> isn't that enough wrt knowing where you are
2021-08-20T18:35:25 < mawk> it had this accuracy, then it stopped finding any satellite
2021-08-20T18:37:45 < PaulFertser> Almanac was used along with the previous location and current time to make a guess about what sattelites are visible right at the moment at the place so that if you had just 5 correlators you'd know which codes to try decoding. That's why old GPS receivers had faster fix if you just ride around and slow fix the first time after you landed in another country. But if you can decode all the signals
2021-08-20T18:37:51 < PaulFertser> at the same time it's no longer relevant.
2021-08-20T18:38:36 < PaulFertser> Almanac is really just approximate ephemeris for all the sats, and every sat transmits it (data for all the sats).
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2021-08-20T18:46:44 < karlp> fair enough
2021-08-20T19:19:11 < jadew> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/onlyfans-bans-sexually-explicit-content.html
2021-08-20T19:19:15 < jadew> karlp, what yin yin?
2021-08-20T19:20:41 < karlp> nvm, it was from sauce,  this was abotu the time I got sick of you and them both having the same virtually illegible dark blue on black nick, of the same length, and I went and updated weecaht color lists... :)
2021-08-20T19:21:36 < jadew> ah, that was the issue hehe
2021-08-20T19:21:59 < jadew> you're all look the same to me
2021-08-20T19:22:00 < karlp> yeah, there were a few too many people in a few too many places who'd hashed to the same colour on the short default list.
2021-08-20T19:22:17 < karlp> when you get used to having differnet colours for differnt people it's hard to go back :)
2021-08-20T19:22:21 < jadew> *you all
2021-08-20T19:22:37 < jadew> yeah, I know, I think I had that at one point too
2021-08-20T19:27:16 < jadew> "Just when I decided to get back into the dating scene OF goes and bans "sexual content" now I'm gonna have to compete with all these bad b!tches that need their bills paid. 
2021-08-20T19:27:18 < jadew> When's gon' be my time lord, when?
2021-08-20T19:27:20 < jadew> "
2021-08-20T19:28:36 < aandrew> heh all y'all are gray on black to me unless you highlight me
2021-08-20T19:28:52 < aandrew> jadew: lol
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2021-08-20T19:32:13 < karlp> should bear in mind that it's really mastercard banning it....
2021-08-20T19:33:34 < jadew> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2021-08-20T19:33:56 < jadew> the result is probably going to be the same
2021-08-20T19:34:07 < jadew> onlyfans alternative will take off
2021-08-20T19:35:07 < karlp> not for long, mastercard will come in again with their puritans.
2021-08-20T19:36:13 < jadew> this could be a good use for crypto
2021-08-20T19:36:27 < jadew> this is crypto's chance to gain some intrinsic value
2021-08-20T19:38:56 < karlp> lol
2021-08-20T19:44:49 < srk> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28243554
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2021-08-20T19:47:35 < mouseghost> smh why cant i turn on pull-up on i2c lines in the pubemx wizard?
2021-08-20T19:50:21 < mawk> it's there by default no?
2021-08-20T19:50:27 < mawk> that's how i2c works
2021-08-20T19:53:59 < mouseghost> mawk, is it?
2021-08-20T19:54:00 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-20T19:54:06 < mouseghost> hm maybe it is
2021-08-20T19:57:11 < Steffann> Add external ones.. easy done
2021-08-20T20:00:00 < mawk> ?¿
2021-08-20T20:00:05 < mawk> what are you talking about
2021-08-20T20:00:15 < mawk> the st i2c master peripheral does it by itself
2021-08-20T20:00:23 < mawk> it's part of the protocol as a master
2021-08-20T20:00:26 < mawk> you can't not have pullups
2021-08-20T20:00:34 < jpa-> mawk: are you sure?
2021-08-20T20:00:56 < mawk> probably
2021-08-20T20:01:04 < mawk> since I never had to do such thing to use i2c master
2021-08-20T20:01:06 < jpa-> on th STM32's i've used, you have to enable the internal pull-ups explicitly for I2C pins if you want them - and usually they are too weak so you need external ones anyway
2021-08-20T20:01:44 < mawk> isn't it a bit in a i2c periph register?
2021-08-20T20:01:51 < jpa-> also on many models, you need to explicitly configure GPIO as open-drain, otherwise you'll get conflicts on SDA pin
2021-08-20T20:01:59 < jpa-> mawk: which bit?
2021-08-20T20:02:42 < mawk> no idea
2021-08-20T20:02:49 < mawk> I can't check right now
2021-08-20T20:03:08 < mawk> but in any case I believe cube is smart enough to do the right gpio config by default
2021-08-20T20:03:22 < mawk> when you enable i2c peripheral
2021-08-20T20:03:33 < mawk> since it already sets AF mode and so on automatically
2021-08-20T20:08:28 < mawk>  hmm no indeed I don't find any special bit
2021-08-20T20:08:38 < mawk> for l4
2021-08-20T20:10:11 < mawk> or maybe it's not in the i2c periph itself
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2021-08-20T20:10:27 < Laurenceb> ON Semiconductor is Now onsemi
2021-08-20T20:10:28 < Laurenceb> Intelligent Technology. Better Future.
2021-08-20T20:10:36 < Laurenceb> keeek did the chinese buy it or something
2021-08-20T20:10:46 < Laurenceb> >BETTER FUTURE
2021-08-20T20:10:55 < Laurenceb> >ME LOVE U LONG TIME
2021-08-20T20:12:19 < jpa-> no, talibans bought it so they can sell chips on their semi  https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021-08-15T091526Z_1065911199_RC2J5P9LLEE9_RTRMADP_3_AFGHANISTAN-CONFLICT.jpg
2021-08-20T20:12:55 < mawk> ah, in syscfg there's a magic bit to drive i2c with more strength, but it's not about the pull-up
2021-08-20T20:13:03 < mawk> I don't know what I remembered
2021-08-20T20:13:43 < Steffann> Is jpa- alright? Do you know?
2021-08-20T20:14:18 < mawk> that's a afghan soldier jpa- no?
2021-08-20T20:14:25 < mawk> unless talibans stole their outfits already
2021-08-20T20:14:40 < jpa-> who knows
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2021-08-20T20:18:06 < englishman> Toyota announces 40% worldwide production cut in order to route enough vehicles to the Taliban
2021-08-20T20:18:37 < Laurenceb> https://www.onsemi.com/products/sensors/photodetectors-sipm-spad/silicon-photomultipliers-sipm/j-series-sipm
2021-08-20T20:18:40 < Laurenceb> DO WANT
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2021-08-20T20:20:10 < karlp> srk: lol, thanks
2021-08-20T20:20:24 < Laurenceb> oh wait they just bought up sensl
2021-08-20T20:20:25 < Laurenceb> fail
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2021-08-20T20:24:19 < mouseghost> am i supposed to modify usbd_cdc_if.c?
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2021-08-20T20:58:29 < mouseghost> Error: Fail reading CTRL/STAT register. Force reconnect
2021-08-20T20:58:29 < mouseghost> Error: failed to restore 60 bytes of working area at address 0x20000000
2021-08-20T20:58:31 < mouseghost> uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
2021-08-20T21:02:55 < mouseghost> ok nvm
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2021-08-20T21:20:01 < mawk> https://youtu.be/1N7y_5fGejU
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2021-08-20T22:06:32 < mouseghost> wtf how did i manage to screw up goldpins so badly
2021-08-20T22:06:36 < mouseghost> b akaWolf
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2021-08-20T22:50:47 < mouseghost> ehhh
2021-08-20T22:50:59 < mouseghost> either i have soldered something wrong or i fried the ic or i dont know
2021-08-20T22:55:14 < mawk> it's hard to fry ICs mouseghost 
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2021-08-20T23:05:03 < bitmask> easier when they aren't soldered in as far as i know but still hard
2021-08-20T23:34:33 < mouseghost> then idk what problem :((
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--- Day changed Sat Aug 21 2021
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2021-08-21T01:00:07 < t4nk_fn> hard to fry ics????
2021-08-21T01:01:29 < t4nk_fn> the world today has one less tmc2209.
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2021-08-21T06:38:58 < octorian> So I'm wondering whether it makes more sense to use the built-in USB DFU bootloader on the MCU I'm planning to use in the next rev of my project, or if I'm better off trying to cram my own DFU bootloader into a corner of flash.
2021-08-21T06:40:12 < octorian> Having my own in flash seems to only have a few benefits: I can show something on the display when its in that mode, I don't need a BOOT0 connected button to trigger it, and I can perhaps have a more obvious USB device name pop up when connected.
2021-08-21T06:41:15 < octorian> Using the built-in one means I have more flash available for program code, but I'll need the extra hidden button and maybe more annoying "how to update the firmware" instructions.
2021-08-21T06:42:02 < octorian> I kinda wish you could simply "configure" the built-in bootloader with some magic bytes in the right part of the device's memory map, but I've seen absolutely nothing mentioning if that's possible.
2021-08-21T06:42:46 < octorian> (because having a "first stage" bootloader in flash that just spits an image to the display, then jumps to the built-in DFU code would be best... but not if the user could wipe it out by fumbling a command)
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2021-08-21T08:51:41 < PaulFertser> octorian: you can jump to rom bootloader from your firmware too
2021-08-21T08:52:41 < octorian> Yeah, but I'm not sure I can prevent the ROM dfu bootloader from overwriting whatever small piece of flash does the jump.
2021-08-21T08:53:19 < PaulFertser> octorian: to make it more reliable in case of a failed flash?
2021-08-21T08:54:26 < octorian> Yeah.  A bad firmware update shouldn't be able to bork the device and prevent fixing with a good firmware update.
2021-08-21T08:54:53 < octorian> Maybe I'll just sneak in that BOOT0 button anyways, and decide later whether its the "normal way" to do DFU, or the "backup" if something breaks.
2021-08-21T08:55:07 < PaulFertser> octorian: btw, are you that tight on flash? A DFU implementation fits in 8 KiB
2021-08-21T08:55:43 < octorian> Which DFU implementation?  ST's with all the compiler optimizations turned on, or something 3rd party?
2021-08-21T08:56:35 < PaulFertser> octorian: dapboot from github, libopencm3-based.
2021-08-21T08:57:29 < octorian> Looks like that only works with the F1, so I'd need to port it.  (using an L0)
2021-08-21T08:57:48 < octorian> But I did some quick tests, and I can get ST's to be almost that small with the right optimization flags, I think.
2021-08-21T08:57:52 < PaulFertser> But the size should be about the same.
2021-08-21T08:58:15 < octorian> Also curious about tinyUSB's, but I think they just added DFU very recently.
2021-08-21T08:59:09 < octorian> Though I'd still more likely need to reserve closer to 16k for there to be a point to this. (since the only reason to really use my own bootloader is so I can have some code that displays something on the device telling the user that its in DFU mode)
2021-08-21T09:04:50 < jpa-> boot0 trigger can be made in many ways, like holding down some existing button on boot or shining light on a phototransistor or disconnecting and reconnecting power cable quickly
2021-08-21T09:05:17 < jpa-> i always prefer built-in bootloader because there is less things that i can mess up :)
2021-08-21T09:05:48 < octorian> Yeah, I want to design with the assumption that I'm using the built-in bootloader, where doing my own becomes a completely optional value-add.
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2021-08-21T12:16:45 < zyp> octorian, I prefer doing my own
2021-08-21T12:18:03 < zyp> partly because as you say, you can do custom bootloader triggers and you can indicate that it's in bootloader mode
2021-08-21T12:18:27 < zyp> and partly because it can use a more user friendly protocol than dfuse
2021-08-21T12:20:22 < PaulFertser> What is more user friendly?
2021-08-21T12:20:31 < zyp> e.g. I've made a couple of windows-oriented products using HID as the bootloader transport to avoid the need for driver binding and other bullshit, all the user has to do is run a selfcontained .exe that finds and flashes the device
2021-08-21T12:21:45 < zyp> another option would be UF2, but I haven't done that myself yet
2021-08-21T12:22:04 < zyp> and then there's plain dfu without the dfuse extensions
2021-08-21T12:23:39 < PaulFertser> What do you think about webdfu?
2021-08-21T12:24:22 < zyp> haven't tried it yet, but webusb in general looks interesting
2021-08-21T12:30:23 < qyx> extending web exploits to your embedded devices
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2021-08-21T13:30:25 < jpa-> i would use MTP for bootloader, allows dragging the file but in a saner way than the usual MSC + FAT emulation
2021-08-21T13:31:05 < PaulFertser> Is that a joke or are you serious?
2021-08-21T13:32:18 < qyx> me too
2021-08-21T13:32:40 < qyx> MSC is a more serious joke than MTP
2021-08-21T13:32:47 < jpa-> PaulFertser: why would it be a joke?
2021-08-21T13:33:33 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I have very bad user experience with MTP
2021-08-21T13:33:56 < jpa-> it has worked fine for me for years now
2021-08-21T13:34:10 < jpa-> in the early 2010s there used to be trouble
2021-08-21T13:34:12 < qyx> the other possibility is OBEX over CDC-ACM
2021-08-21T13:34:25 < qyx> :>
2021-08-21T13:34:28 < jpa-> oh no, not OBEX :D
2021-08-21T13:34:35 < PaulFertser> I think it's still problematic, just see how many different MTP implementations are there, and how many quirks are documented in their sources.
2021-08-21T13:35:03 < jpa-> every USB class driver is full of quirks
2021-08-21T13:35:06 < PaulFertser> IMHO the only sane way is SCP over CDC-ECM/RNDIS
2021-08-21T13:35:17 < jpa-> lol, RNDIS? :D
2021-08-21T13:35:30 < jpa-> the amount of quirks there is crazy
2021-08-21T13:35:32 < PaulFertser> Well, it works out of the box with GNU/Linux so why not.
2021-08-21T13:35:42 < jpa-> so does MTP
2021-08-21T13:35:45 < PaulFertser> And doesn't require any special userspace.
2021-08-21T13:36:02 < jpa-> scp *is* special userspace for 90% of PC users
2021-08-21T13:36:28 < qyx> o we are back to cdc-ecm and a web interface
2021-08-21T13:36:54 < jpa-> and after two years, openssh invents yet another encryption and you'll need to pass --really-im-insecure-and-like-it-that-way to connect to your device
2021-08-21T13:41:34 < zyp> I think I'd rather do UF2/MSC than anything MTP
2021-08-21T13:42:00 < qyx> what do you mean, chacha20+poly1305?
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2021-08-21T15:17:59 < mouseghost> halp, so si4012 i have doesnt respond :( at allllll. idk if i have fried it during soldering or what anymore X_X
2021-08-21T15:21:07 < Steffann> Have schematics etc.? Its i2s right? Did you probe your signals (to see what it actually looks like). What have you done so far mr mouseghost?
2021-08-21T15:21:52 < mouseghost> mr Steffann its just connected directly, without any schematics or anything. it technically is smbus, but i am using i2c, yes. i did, can send the pics.
2021-08-21T15:22:52 < mouseghost> https://a.uguu.se/iyCQdZBn.jpg
2021-08-21T15:22:54 < mouseghost> https://a.uguu.se/JenohhKY.jpg
2021-08-21T15:24:05 < Steffann> Got your pullups right? Sure you're using the right address?
2021-08-21T15:24:16 < mouseghost> i have 10k, sir
2021-08-21T15:24:31 < mouseghost> well, i just typed what was there in the datasheet
2021-08-21T15:24:42 < mouseghost> The SMBus interface is implemented as a bidirectional 2-wire interface (SCL, SDA) with the host configured as
2021-08-21T15:24:42 < mouseghost> master and the Si4012 configured as slave. Both standard (100 kbps) and fast (400 kbps) modes are supported
2021-08-21T15:24:42 < mouseghost> with 7-bit addressing. The default device address is 1110000x, where x is the R/W bit.
2021-08-21T15:25:59 < mouseghost> i do have a spare one, so i technically could change this one to that one, but i dont really believe in that being the case...
2021-08-21T15:26:13 < mouseghost> i did tickle it with 5V once for a second tho lol
2021-08-21T15:27:26 < Steffann> Also checked whater or not you have to "preshift" your address or not? Some libaries/mcus want the 7 bit address shifted to the left
2021-08-21T15:27:38 < Steffann> im not sure what stm32 wants.
2021-08-21T15:27:41 < mouseghost> ye
2021-08-21T15:27:49 < mouseghost> but i mean, the scope says its all right
2021-08-21T15:27:57 < mouseghost> i did shift it
2021-08-21T15:29:06 < Steffann> alright
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2021-08-21T15:35:26 < mouseghost> X_X
2021-08-21T15:35:28 < mouseghost> but it no work!
2021-08-21T15:36:37 < mouseghost> eh X_X
2021-08-21T15:36:41 < mouseghost> :c 
2021-08-21T15:36:43 < mouseghost> me sad cat
2021-08-21T15:36:55 < jpa-> i thought you were a mouse
2021-08-21T15:38:35 < mouseghost> depends on my mood
2021-08-21T15:38:43 < mouseghost> can say that cats make ghosts of mice
2021-08-21T15:39:42 < mouseghost> do you disconnect all your probes and hide them when not using the scope for some hours?
2021-08-21T15:40:33 < jpa-> not for hours, but i try to clean up my desk a couple of times per week
2021-08-21T15:40:39 < zyp> no, I let them stay on the desk and get buried under more recent mess
2021-08-21T15:41:45 < Steffann> ^
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2021-08-21T15:44:09 < Steffann> You try to, how often you succeed, jpa-?
2021-08-21T15:44:19 < jpa-> maybe twice a week
2021-08-21T15:44:34 < mouseghost> i was more wondering if its possible to damage them that way or something
2021-08-21T15:44:40 < mouseghost> jpa-, come to my room 
2021-08-21T15:44:52 < Steffann> ofcourse that is possible
2021-08-21T15:45:27 < jpa-> if you leave them below accumulating crap on your desk, you can damage the cable; if you store them in a shredder, they get damaged also; if you are careless in disconnecting the BNC connector, maybe it gets damaged
2021-08-21T15:46:11 < mouseghost> hm, might have also had the temperature too high... i think i was round 370C...
2021-08-21T15:46:36 < mouseghost> jpa-, more like, magic wizard comes and destroys them while they are connected to the scope just like that
2021-08-21T15:47:25 < jpa-> if that better aligns with your worldview, sure, it is magic wizard
2021-08-21T15:47:37 < mouseghost> ohno thats bad, then
2021-08-21T15:49:20 < mouseghost> tho looping cables neatly might also damage them
2021-08-21T15:49:23 < mouseghost> why is everything against me
2021-08-21T15:49:33 < Steffann> did you solder it on some break out board or what mr mouseghost?
2021-08-21T15:49:40 < mouseghost> yes Steffann exactly
2021-08-21T15:49:43 < mouseghost> my hand made one
2021-08-21T15:49:49 < Steffann> we need pics
2021-08-21T15:49:57 < mouseghost> sure
2021-08-21T15:51:27 < Steffann> Since grumpy cat died. is there a contest in ##stm32 to see who gets to replace him?
2021-08-21T15:52:23 < mouseghost> Steffann, https://a.uguu.se/NrWbdLol.jpg
2021-08-21T15:53:10 < mouseghost> but i really should get some done profesionally, for cheaper uhh
2021-08-21T15:53:29 < mouseghost> maybe i finally should design them and send to jlc
2021-08-21T15:53:35 < mouseghost> soo
2021-08-21T15:53:37 < mouseghost> how do you rate it
2021-08-21T15:53:39 < mouseghost> do you like it
2021-08-21T15:54:23 < Steffann> could be worse
2021-08-21T15:55:21 < mouseghost> :((
2021-08-21T15:55:32 < mouseghost> so you dont like it
2021-08-21T15:55:47 < Steffann> thats not what i said
2021-08-21T16:09:20 < mouseghost> :/
2021-08-21T16:09:22 < mouseghost> but you didnt say it was nice
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2021-08-21T16:58:16 < mouseghost> File review will be completed in 10-60 mins when business hours.
2021-08-21T16:58:22 < mouseghost> yay finally ordered my first one @ jlc
2021-08-21T17:10:27 < mouseghost> what the fuck
2021-08-21T17:10:36 < mouseghost> i misconnected SDN 
2021-08-21T17:10:39 < mouseghost> and it was that
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2021-08-21T17:25:13 < Steffann> Hehe, mouseghost 
2021-08-21T17:25:18 < Steffann> Shit happened 
2021-08-21T17:25:20 < Steffann> S
2021-08-21T17:25:27 < mouseghost> X_X
2021-08-21T17:25:38 < mouseghost> i didnt even think it would matter
2021-08-21T17:28:21 < mouseghost> now a real question
2021-08-21T17:28:37 < mouseghost> is it better to shit your pants or debug some shitty thing for a day
2021-08-21T17:30:08 < jpa-> why not do both?
2021-08-21T17:30:24 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-21T17:30:26 < mouseghost> true
2021-08-21T17:36:27 < Steffann> Why would this make you shit your paints?
2021-08-21T17:36:37 < Steffann> Pull your hair out sure, but..
2021-08-21T17:37:55 < mouseghost> nah
2021-08-21T17:37:56 < mouseghost> not like that
2021-08-21T17:38:03 < mouseghost> its just: what is worse, Steffann
2021-08-21T17:38:11 < mouseghost> besides, you could shit your pants because of overthinking
2021-08-21T17:38:16 < mouseghost> overfocusing
2021-08-21T17:38:20 < Steffann> Never happened to me
2021-08-21T17:38:41 < Steffann> Wasting a day or more on some issue, yeah that happened 
2021-08-21T17:41:15 < mouseghost> idk its more of a joke thing i guess
2021-08-21T17:43:54 < Steffann> I hope so
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2021-08-21T18:35:04 < mouseghost> how is the typical chinese latin-alphabet font called?
2021-08-21T18:36:30 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/xadoyuyeti.shell << so, after few days, mcu got stack, this is what I get when, while crashed I check backtrace... ideas how to fix?
2021-08-21T18:38:33 < Fleck> *stuck
2021-08-21T18:39:33 < mouseghost> after a few days of running?
2021-08-21T18:39:40 < Fleck> yep
2021-08-21T18:40:43 < mouseghost> you doing dynamic memory? Fleck
2021-08-21T18:41:18 < Fleck> well, not me, but I use some libs that might :D
2021-08-21T18:41:49 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-08-21T18:42:33 < octorian> PaulFertser, zyp, speaking of bootloaders... The MCU I'm currently using (L052) only has 64k which I'm kinda hitting the limit on.  The one I'm switching to (L072) has 128k and a built-in DFU bootloader.  Having 128k should be plenty for my program needs, though it remains to be seen how much of that I'll use once I "uncap" myself on what I can do.
2021-08-21T18:42:47 < octorian> I've also seen a project out there for a HID-based bootloader that's tiny.
2021-08-21T18:43:16 < octorian> I feel like I should add a BOOT0 button to the next rev, and plan to start with just using the system DFU bootloader for updates. But in the future, if I have the space, I might cram something of my own in there.
2021-08-21T18:43:45 < octorian> Worst case, I then either don't populate the button, or use the button as a "failsafe" that doesn't get used often.
2021-08-21T18:44:44 < octorian> This is the sort of device where I don't expect firmware updates to be frequent, once its "final", but where there probably will be a bunch when its "in evaluation and testing" by beta users.
2021-08-21T18:47:40 < octorian> On a different project of mine (using an F411 /w 512k of flash) I actually implemented a USB host on the device. So for that, I wrote a bootloader that can update the main firmware directly from a thumbdrive. But that's for a device I don't expect to be used near a computer, and I had the headroom for it.
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2021-08-21T21:17:06 < qyx> octorian: whoa I want usb host with MSC
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2021-08-21T21:17:46  * qyx is making a note on his to-do list, currently at year 2027
2021-08-21T21:20:42 < octorian> For the USB host side, I'm using ST's USB host library.  I kinda wish host support wasn't an afterthought with tinyUSB.
2021-08-21T21:20:56 < octorian> (my USB device project is using tinyUSB, FWIW)
2021-08-21T21:21:47 < octorian> The main gripe with ST's USB host library is that its not all that fancy, and I needed to do a bit of hacking on it to be able to support multiple USB<->Serial adapter chips as connected devices.
2021-08-21T21:22:27 < octorian> But as far as I can tell, my choices in this area are basically just ST's libraries or tinyUSB, unless I want to license a proprietary stack (which I don't).
2021-08-21T21:38:24 < zyp> octorian, one of my projects is also using L052, with a HID bootloader that fits in 8k
2021-08-21T21:39:05 < zyp> IIRC it can be reduced to 4k if I strip it down to the minimums
2021-08-21T21:40:40 < zyp> the bootloader base works with both HID and DFU frontends
2021-08-21T21:41:02 < zyp> because it's much the same process anyway
2021-08-21T21:41:23 < octorian> So this is the HID-based bootloader I stumbled across a while back: https://github.com/kcuzner/led-watch/tree/master/bootloader
2021-08-21T21:41:49 < octorian> Are there more out there I should be bookmarking for reference?
2021-08-21T21:42:43 < zyp> here's mine for l052: https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp
2021-08-21T21:42:56 < zyp> it's a port from this for f303: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp
2021-08-21T21:44:30 < octorian> I keep telling myself I should switch from C to C++ for my projects, but for some reason I haven't yet.
2021-08-21T21:44:50 < octorian> Probably because things were far enough along when I saw some presentations that finally made me interested, and I didn't feel like rewriting stuff.
2021-08-21T21:46:09 < zyp> I've written quite a few bootloaders and they all tend to follow the same prepare/write/finish pattern
2021-08-21T21:46:47 < zyp> it's nice and simple and can be mapped to pretty much whatever transport frontend you've got
2021-08-21T21:47:39 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp?id=9a09653#n114 <- here's a DFU frontend that's a direct swap in for the HID frontend
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2021-08-21T22:09:57 < mouseghost> yay
2021-08-21T22:10:07 < mouseghost> so now i have a transmitter which does whatever frequency i tell it
2021-08-21T22:12:44 < Steffanx> \o/
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2021-08-21T22:15:35 < mouseghost> \o/
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2021-08-21T22:29:55 < kakium69> what you doin mouseghost?
2021-08-21T22:30:18 < mouseghost> kakium69, for school. will test penetration of radio waves in different materials.
2021-08-21T22:30:54 < kakium69> ah you are not making a radio thingy
2021-08-21T22:30:56 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-21T22:31:13 < kakium69> are you EE student?
2021-08-21T22:31:17 < mouseghost> whats EE
2021-08-21T22:31:19 < mouseghost> nahh
2021-08-21T22:31:22 < mouseghost> im in high school
2021-08-21T22:31:23 < kakium69> electronics engineer
2021-08-21T22:31:33 < mouseghost> well, ive just made a transmitter
2021-08-21T22:31:36 < mouseghost> kinda made
2021-08-21T22:31:40 < mouseghost> well, connected one ic to another
2021-08-21T22:31:43 < mouseghost> and communicated them lol
2021-08-21T22:31:58 < kakium69> did you use a module?
2021-08-21T22:32:10 < mouseghost> ive made the thing that allows me to type in a frequency and get it on the air
2021-08-21T22:32:22 < mouseghost> kakium69, not really. just ezradio from silabs; si4012
2021-08-21T22:32:28 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-21T22:32:29 < mouseghost> well, kinda module, kinda not
2021-08-21T22:32:41 < mouseghost> technically its in an ic packaging ;x
2021-08-21T22:33:03 < mouseghost> but it does auto tune and i get -50dBm or so on a breadboard with a shitty loop-sque antenna 
2021-08-21T22:33:08 < mouseghost> "antenna"
2021-08-21T22:33:18 < mouseghost> good enough for me
2021-08-21T22:33:28 < mouseghost> i did read about matching, though
2021-08-21T22:33:36 < mouseghost> if you wanted to hire me...
2021-08-21T22:35:12 < Steffanx> high school, then you must be by far the youngest here.
2021-08-21T22:35:22 < Steffanx> i think your eyes shouldnt even see some things posted here :P
2021-08-21T22:35:27 < mawk> lol
2021-08-21T22:35:36 < mawk> lawrence's links maybe
2021-08-21T22:35:58 < kakium69> still wet behind the ears
2021-08-21T22:36:31 < kakium69> I'm at age I can say something like that about people in high school
2021-08-21T22:36:49 < mawk> lol
2021-08-21T22:37:25 < mouseghost> whats wet behind the ears?
2021-08-21T22:37:26 < kakium69> mouseghost: that's impressive for high school project
2021-08-21T22:37:32 < mouseghost> kakium69, why ;-;
2021-08-21T22:37:38 < mouseghost> probably shouldnt be doing that then ://
2021-08-21T22:37:45 < kakium69> mouseghost: from being born
2021-08-21T22:37:48 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-21T22:38:08 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: what was the issue, why weren't you able to communicate with that IC earlier today?
2021-08-21T22:38:19 < kakium69> mouseghost: no no.. keep doin
2021-08-21T22:38:35 < kakium69> why to be mediocre
2021-08-21T22:39:33 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, yea. turns out SDN (shutdown) pin needs to be grounded if not used; i thought i did it in the process of troubleshooting, just to be sure, but it turned out i connected the pin next to it (off by one) and instead grounded interrupt line.
2021-08-21T22:39:36 < mouseghost> kakium69, true
2021-08-21T22:39:54 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: great you figured it out finally :)
2021-08-21T22:40:14 < mouseghost> yeah indeed. when someone asked me about that pin, i thought that maybe i should recheck it :D
2021-08-21T22:40:18 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: so essentially you're trying an I2C transaction but the slave was sleeping?
2021-08-21T22:40:25 < mouseghost> yep
2021-08-21T22:40:31 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: do you have an LA?
2021-08-21T22:40:38 < mouseghost> whats an LA?
2021-08-21T22:40:44 < PaulFertser> Logic Analyser
2021-08-21T22:40:46 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-21T22:40:47 < mouseghost> yeah
2021-08-21T22:40:48 < mouseghost> and a scope
2021-08-21T22:40:59 < mouseghost> i mean, it was clear that the ic was unresponsive
2021-08-21T22:41:20 < Steffanx> `what siglent do you have mr mouseghost?
2021-08-21T22:41:20 < mouseghost> but the reason for that...
2021-08-21T22:41:29 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: you're all set then :) You see the master doing the right thing and the host doing exactly nothing as if it's not connected at all or not powered or something, so you first check power, then I2C lines, then all the other pins.
2021-08-21T22:41:36 < mouseghost> Steffanx, 1104x-e
2021-08-21T22:41:47 < Steffanx> hacked to 1204x-e?
2021-08-21T22:41:58 < mouseghost> actually i havent hacked it yet
2021-08-21T22:42:37 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, yep. though i kinda guessed that the IC was powered on, because the power draw was similar to one shown in the datasheet -- but it turns out it wasnt..
2021-08-21T22:43:29 < mouseghost> Steffanx, and whats your scope?
2021-08-21T22:43:34 < Steffanx> same
2021-08-21T22:43:37 < mouseghost> oh
2021-08-21T22:43:39 < mouseghost> did you hack yours?
2021-08-21T22:43:47 < mawk> Steffanx is a serial scope hacker
2021-08-21T22:44:01 < Steffanx> tak tak, mouseghost
2021-08-21T22:44:10 < mouseghost> Steffanx, is that in indonesian?
2021-08-21T22:44:26 < Steffanx> polish i hope
2021-08-21T22:44:35 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-21T22:44:47 < Steffanx> or should i have said, "kurwa mac, tak tak" because that makes it more polish.
2021-08-21T22:44:59 < PaulFertser> What does tak tak mean?
2021-08-21T22:45:01 < mouseghost> yeah, then its certainly polish
2021-08-21T22:45:05 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, "yes" in polish
2021-08-21T22:45:07 < Steffanx> "yes yes"
2021-08-21T22:45:15 < mouseghost> "no" in indonesian
2021-08-21T22:45:29 < mouseghost> mine is for single "tak"
2021-08-21T22:45:46 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: in Ukrainian too
2021-08-21T22:46:30 < mouseghost> i would never thought so, tbh
2021-08-21T22:46:33 < mouseghost> in russian its "da"
2021-08-21T22:47:25 < mouseghost> very interesting
2021-08-21T22:49:16 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@13.47.147.147.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-08-21T22:49:27 < mawk> ja wöhl
2021-08-21T22:51:52 < PaulFertser> na khui
2021-08-21T22:52:09 < mouseghost> https://static.plus.net/content/dam/plusnet/images/hero-banner/564-600/564x600-fibre-50-reward-card-pink-roundal.png
2021-08-21T22:53:43 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: what will you be measuring the received signal strength with?
2021-08-21T22:54:04 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, tinySA; a small spectrum analyzer
2021-08-21T22:55:12 < mouseghost> at the beginning i wanted to roll my own solution, but then i just ordered that alongside nanoVNA; both will help me later with radio work, so..
2021-08-21T22:55:24 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: sounds like you're not lame at all ;)
2021-08-21T22:55:29  * mouseghost eyes
2021-08-21T22:55:58 < mouseghost> t-thanks, i guess?
2021-08-21T22:56:17 < Steffanx> haha, mouseghost
2021-08-21T22:56:24 < mouseghost> Steffanx, what do i say
2021-08-21T22:57:02 < Steffanx> Im just laughing because i can understand why PaulFertser said that
2021-08-21T22:57:04 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-21T22:57:36 < bitmask> anyone know a good design for a an automatic coil winder?
2021-08-21T22:57:45 < mouseghost> explain X_X
2021-08-21T22:58:06 < bitmask> for winding electromagnet coils
2021-08-21T22:58:30 < bitmask> i have an idea for one, probably overly complex though
2021-08-21T22:58:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: actually, not fully. I'm a long-time participant in a "CanSat" competition for high-schoolers and every year I was meeting plenty of students with varying degrees of understanding MCU programming, EE and radio communication.
2021-08-21T22:59:33 < Steffanx> ah, i thought you were mainly referring to mouseghost being a bit odd (or whatever to call it0 in the past :P
2021-08-21T22:59:44 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-21T22:59:49 < mouseghost> am still odd
2021-08-21T22:59:56 < Steffanx> maybe.
2021-08-21T23:00:01 < mouseghost> but so are you
2021-08-21T23:00:03 < qyx> even yourself
2021-08-21T23:00:05 < Steffanx> ##stm32 can deal with odd.
2021-08-21T23:00:13 < mouseghost> odd is good b)
2021-08-21T23:00:15 < mouseghost> B)
2021-08-21T23:00:20 < mawk> am I odd Steffanx ?
2021-08-21T23:00:24 < Steffanx> TOTALLY
2021-08-21T23:00:36 < qyx> no you are semi dutch
2021-08-21T23:00:38 < mouseghost> bitmask, you mean like toroidal ones?
2021-08-21T23:00:40 < Steffanx> 1) Taste in music.
2021-08-21T23:00:48 < bitmask> no, nothing that fancy
2021-08-21T23:00:57 < kakium69> when I was in high school I just ordered some random electronics parts to my collection and never used them
2021-08-21T23:01:18 < mawk> Steffanx: my taste in music means I am the perfectest human in this channel
2021-08-21T23:01:51 < mawk> I can hear through the noise with my third eye
2021-08-21T23:02:31 < kakium69> you trippin mawk
2021-08-21T23:02:37 < qyx> I was about to say
2021-08-21T23:02:43 < mawk> :(
2021-08-21T23:02:43 < qyx> substances don't count
2021-08-21T23:04:13 < bitmask> what conversation did i walk in on
2021-08-21T23:05:43 < kakium69> we are admiring mouseghost's high school project and bringing mawk back to reality
2021-08-21T23:06:11 < bitmask> thats a big undertaking
2021-08-21T23:06:21 < bitmask> whats the hs project
2021-08-21T23:07:16 < qyx> is it this one? 21:52 < mouseghost> https://static.plus.net/content/dam/plusnet/images/hero-banner/564-600/564x600-fibre-50-reward-card-pink-roundal.png
2021-08-21T23:07:29  * qyx reading backlog
2021-08-21T23:07:30 < mouseghost> qyx, no i thought that was laurence
2021-08-21T23:07:55 < mouseghost> penetration of radio waves through different materials
2021-08-21T23:08:00 < mouseghost> ^ thas the project
2021-08-21T23:08:03 < bitmask> ahh
2021-08-21T23:08:24 < qyx> oh with si4012?
2021-08-21T23:08:29 < qyx> tell me about that si
2021-08-21T23:08:36 < qyx> I have a couple of projects with that transmitter
2021-08-21T23:08:44 < qyx> but never managed to program them
2021-08-21T23:08:58 < mawk> but it's EZRadio
2021-08-21T23:09:01 < mouseghost> ye with si4012 as transmitter
2021-08-21T23:09:01 < mawk> it says it in the name
2021-08-21T23:09:06 < mouseghost> well, its easy, as mawk says ;v
2021-08-21T23:09:08 < qyx> e-z?
2021-08-21T23:09:13 < mouseghost> ezpay
2021-08-21T23:09:28 < mawk> >Proprietary EZRadio Sub-GHz Wireless ICs
2021-08-21T23:09:30 < mouseghost> https://www.southparkstudios.com/video-clips/nua0wz/south-park-dropping-the-z-from-ez-pay
2021-08-21T23:10:08 < mouseghost> qyx, wdym never managed? no time?
2021-08-21T23:11:20 < mouseghost> ive also ordered some breakout pcbs from jlc to try out efm32zg i have
2021-08-21T23:11:37 < qyx> no time, they are some sensors for our garden
2021-08-21T23:11:47 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-21T23:11:54 < qyx> and not cool enough, LoRa is much hype nowadays instead
2021-08-21T23:12:08 < mouseghost> done lora as well..
2021-08-21T23:12:14 < mouseghost> but isnt lora a bit more expensive?
2021-08-21T23:12:22 < qyx> a much more
2021-08-21T23:12:29 < qyx> but but
2021-08-21T23:12:37 < qyx> stm32wl5e!
2021-08-21T23:13:10 < qyx> for the price of L4 you get half-assed L4 + Sx1262 or what exactly is it
2021-08-21T23:13:54 < qyx> but I didn't tried it yet as mouser thinks it is export restricted
2021-08-21T23:15:06 < mouseghost> aw
2021-08-21T23:15:51 < mouseghost> oh it is a great price
2021-08-21T23:16:10 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-08-21T23:16:12 < kakium69> what is up with export restrictions
2021-08-21T23:16:40 < mouseghost> qyx, regarding garden sensors, if you want to fiddle or something, theres also something called "backscattering" and all.
2021-08-21T23:16:42 < qyx> stm32wle5, sorry
2021-08-21T23:16:45 < mouseghost> yeah i figured
2021-08-21T23:16:56 < qyx> what is backscattering?
2021-08-21T23:16:58 < kakium69> it has some crypto hardware therefore illegal to export?
2021-08-21T23:17:07 < mawk> but ST is french
2021-08-21T23:17:08 < mouseghost> i paid similar price for my lora modules
2021-08-21T23:17:09 < mawk> and produces in china
2021-08-21T23:17:12 < mawk> who is export restricting it
2021-08-21T23:17:15 < mawk> are you an american qyx ??????
2021-08-21T23:17:17 < specing> USA
2021-08-21T23:17:21 < qyx> no it is not frequency limited for the correct ITU region
2021-08-21T23:17:25 < specing> they ship to USA and cant ship it out
2021-08-21T23:17:25 < mawk> ah
2021-08-21T23:17:28 < kakium69> yankeeland from shipping it out from yankeeland
2021-08-21T23:17:36 < mawk> why are you buying it from there
2021-08-21T23:17:45 < qyx> because I usually buy from mouser
2021-08-21T23:17:48 < mouseghost> qyx, im not an expert, but i think that if you have a radio wave incident, then the device might reflect it back by differing amounts or something
2021-08-21T23:17:50 < mawk> buy local, like your lettuce
2021-08-21T23:17:56 < mouseghost> let me just link you to some article ive read
2021-08-21T23:18:23 < kakium69> I think in works I ordered some restricted parts!
2021-08-21T23:18:27 < mouseghost> http://daskalakispiros.com/projects.html
2021-08-21T23:18:28 < qyx> our lettuce is from spain
2021-08-21T23:18:38 < mawk> :(
2021-08-21T23:18:45 < kakium69> it had some option button thing I needed to go through
2021-08-21T23:19:05 < mouseghost> the important picture http://daskalakispiros.com/images/Backscatter/2.jpg
2021-08-21T23:19:26 -!- Coldberg [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-21T23:19:37 < Coldberg> Hello
2021-08-21T23:19:42 < Coldberg> I have a quick question
2021-08-21T23:19:48 < kakium69> proceed
2021-08-21T23:19:59 < Coldberg> Does anyone know if I need pull-ups for connecting an sdcard to STM32
2021-08-21T23:20:07 < Coldberg> using the builtin sdmmc interface
2021-08-21T23:20:21 < Coldberg> I can't seem to find any info in the datasheet/manual
2021-08-21T23:20:27 < mouseghost> i wish i could explain how it works... but basically you differ the reactance with some frequency and it is supposed to work somehow?? though hm, it makes much more sense to do it if you are harvesting the energy instead of using a cell, too
2021-08-21T23:21:08 < mouseghost> nfc works in a similar way
2021-08-21T23:21:12 < mouseghost> afaik
2021-08-21T23:21:25 < kakium69> Coldberg: check application notes
2021-08-21T23:21:31 < kakium69> separate pdfs
2021-08-21T23:22:07 < mouseghost> that the device gives some energy through EM waves to the passive tag (that doesnt have any kind of battery or anything), and the passive thing then sends something back using this energy
2021-08-21T23:22:42 < Coldberg> I'll have a squizz
2021-08-21T23:22:45 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-21T23:22:52 < Coldberg> would I look for "STM32 sdmmc app notes" ?
2021-08-21T23:23:19 < kakium69> ye or open the particular mcu page and browse through pdf titles
2021-08-21T23:23:52 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-254-117-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-08-21T23:25:19 < mouseghost> but in the presented project, they use ambient radio waves instead of using some kind of special device
2021-08-21T23:25:22 < qyx> mouseghost: looks very interesting
2021-08-21T23:25:36 < Coldberg> sometimes I wish someone could just make a board for me, but alas i'm too poor to hire anyone :D
2021-08-21T23:25:37 < mouseghost> yeah i know :3
2021-08-21T23:26:18 < mouseghost> theres also a paper http://daskalakispiros.com/files/daskalakis_mtt_2015.pdf
2021-08-21T23:26:20 < kakium69> Coldberg see if you find discovery board with sdmmc
2021-08-21T23:26:26 < kakium69> or your chip
2021-08-21T23:26:30 < kakium69> then open schematics
2021-08-21T23:26:33 < kakium69> then copy
2021-08-21T23:26:33 < Coldberg> oh good idea
2021-08-21T23:27:52 < Coldberg> I was thinking of just copying from some other design but i kept finding all sorts of variations
2021-08-21T23:28:05 < Coldberg> I thought maybe some document could specify this exactly
2021-08-21T23:29:17 < mouseghost> sometimes they just say "do this or that we dont care you need to satisfy yourself, yourself", like with si4012 -- because it has internal pullups, and the stm32 also has them afaik, but an external pullup deuglified the traces
2021-08-21T23:32:33 < Coldberg> ok found a some reference design thingy
2021-08-21T23:32:40 < Coldberg> and it seems to use 47k pullups
2021-08-21T23:32:51 < Coldberg> guess I'll add em then
2021-08-21T23:33:31 < Coldberg> wonder what about SPI
2021-08-21T23:33:36 < Coldberg> does SPI also need pull ups :S
2021-08-21T23:38:25 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-21T23:39:08 < mawk> I don't think so no Coldberg 
2021-08-21T23:39:13 < mawk> I2C needs them because of how it works
2021-08-21T23:40:56 < qyx> mouseghost: thanks, reading
2021-08-21T23:41:03 < mouseghost> :3
2021-08-21T23:41:56 < Coldberg> thanks mawk
2021-08-21T23:42:14 < Coldberg> what about the chip select line
2021-08-21T23:42:22 < Coldberg> the reference design thingy has a 10k on that
2021-08-21T23:42:23 < kakium69> Coldberg: you might want to condition SS/SE/similar lines externally
2021-08-21T23:42:40 < mawk> Coldberg: that depends what the master does I suppose
2021-08-21T23:43:03 < mawk> but you can put a pulldown if you want the pin to always be low even when the master isn't here
2021-08-21T23:43:17 < mawk> or if the pin is floating for whatever reason
2021-08-21T23:43:23 < kakium69> everything is floating for the period from start to pin initialization
2021-08-21T23:43:37 < mouseghost> CS should be high if not used
2021-08-21T23:43:46 < mouseghost> afaik
2021-08-21T23:43:53 < mawk> yes probably mouseghost 
2021-08-21T23:43:57 < mawk> then put a pullup
2021-08-21T23:43:57 < mouseghost> because otherwise the chip waits for data
2021-08-21T23:44:00 < mouseghost> ye
2021-08-21T23:44:02 < Coldberg> i guess putting down a pullup there woun't hurt
2021-08-21T23:44:44 < Coldberg> ok... what else
2021-08-21T23:44:57 < Coldberg> USB
2021-08-21T23:45:02 < Coldberg> the most simplest USB
2021-08-21T23:45:06 < Coldberg> 2.0 low speed
2021-08-21T23:45:13 < Coldberg> does that need any external components
2021-08-21T23:45:14 < Coldberg> ?
2021-08-21T23:45:56 < mawk> not with the chips I've tried
2021-08-21T23:46:03 < Coldberg> from what I found seems like it doesn't but I want to make sure
2021-08-21T23:46:07 < mouseghost> but i think the traces/cables might need special treatment
2021-08-21T23:46:10 < mawk> ethernet will sometimes require external components
2021-08-21T23:46:40 < Coldberg> mouseghost, with slow speeds I'm pretty sure it's not that sensitive to noise or skew
2021-08-21T23:46:40 < kakium69> Coldberg: good practice is to add external usb TVS diode
2021-08-21T23:47:19 < mouseghost> Coldberg, isnt usb speed fixed?
2021-08-21T23:47:33 < Coldberg> I mean the 12mbit version
2021-08-21T23:47:34 < mawk> you have lots of different speeds
2021-08-21T23:47:38 < mawk> it's not fixed
2021-08-21T23:47:42 < Coldberg> usb 2.0 has two speeds
2021-08-21T23:47:50 < Coldberg> 12mbps and 480 mbps
2021-08-21T23:48:05 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-21T23:48:11 < mawk> yes but it's retro-compatible with previous protocols right
2021-08-21T23:48:13 < mawk> so you can go lower
2021-08-21T23:48:27 < mawk> like 1.5mbps of usb1.1
2021-08-21T23:48:34 < mouseghost> Coldberg, if you have long conductors then you need to take extra care to match the source and load
2021-08-21T23:48:42 < mouseghost> and high frequency, that is
2021-08-21T23:48:46 < mouseghost> depending on the length
2021-08-21T23:49:00 < mouseghost> (not re any protocol)
2021-08-21T23:49:08 < Coldberg> I think 12mbps is not too picky
2021-08-21T23:49:12 < Coldberg> from what I'v seen
2021-08-21T23:50:03 < mawk> 12MHz is like DC anyway??
2021-08-21T23:50:36 < mawk> you don't need anything special, just let software guys fix it
2021-08-21T23:51:15 < Coldberg> lol I am the software guy XD
2021-08-21T23:51:19 < mouseghost> after all, my lora module worked without an antenna at some meters
2021-08-21T23:51:21 < Coldberg> and this is just a prototype
2021-08-21T23:52:27 < mawk> more seriously I don't think 12MHz warrant impedance adaptation mouseghost 
2021-08-21T23:52:44 < mouseghost> i think it all depends on the length of a conductor
2021-08-21T23:52:51 < mouseghost> and that wasnt to usb, really
2021-08-21T23:53:01 < mouseghost> it was more of a, general statement... since Coldberg said "what else"
2021-08-21T23:53:14 < Coldberg> I'v never seen usb 2 treated with care 
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2021-08-21T23:53:22 < Coldberg> like it would be routed out to simple pin headers
2021-08-21T23:53:26 < Coldberg> and connected by very basic wires
2021-08-21T23:53:29 < Coldberg> to a part
2021-08-21T23:53:32 < Coldberg> *port
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2021-08-21T23:53:39 < Coldberg> (talking about most PCs)
2021-08-21T23:54:23 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-21T23:54:23 < mouseghost> kay
2021-08-21T23:54:42 < Coldberg> not so for something like USB2
2021-08-21T23:54:47 < Coldberg> *USB3
2021-08-21T23:55:11 < Coldberg> that was always soldered on to the motherboard and connected with a thick selfcontained cable
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2021-08-21T23:55:43 < Coldberg> I think I should be good without impedance matching 
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2021-08-21T23:56:38 < Coldberg> another thing
2021-08-21T23:56:52 < mouseghost> yeah i guess you arent going to pull 1km of a cable or something
2021-08-21T23:56:55 < Coldberg> the STM32 design guide thingy suggests an ungodly ammount of capacitors
2021-08-21T23:56:56 < mouseghost> usb doesnt have enough power for that
2021-08-21T23:57:01 < Coldberg> I plopped them down
2021-08-21T23:57:06 < Coldberg> but it just seems like absolute overkill
2021-08-21T23:57:11 < mouseghost> why ungodly?
2021-08-21T23:57:16 < Coldberg> when using a powerplain
2021-08-21T23:57:21 < mouseghost> how much caps is that?
2021-08-21T23:57:29 < kakium69> every power pin needs one
2021-08-21T23:57:33 < Coldberg> like 100n for each VCC pin
2021-08-21T23:57:38 < Coldberg> then an extra 1u there
2021-08-21T23:57:44 < Coldberg> an extra 4.7u there
2021-08-21T23:57:45 < Coldberg> etc etc
2021-08-21T23:57:52 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-21T23:58:53 < kakium69> you would think that trace or powerplane could just deliver instant energy to pin when power is needed
2021-08-21T23:58:53 < mouseghost> filtering
2021-08-21T23:59:02 < mouseghost> ye and that i guess
2021-08-21T23:59:22 < Coldberg> https://pasteboard.co/KgXTUAx.png
2021-08-21T23:59:26 < Coldberg> now that I put them all onm
2021-08-21T23:59:31 < Coldberg> it just seems ridiculous
2021-08-21T23:59:32 < Coldberg> :/
2021-08-21T23:59:51 < Coldberg> i got a power and ground plane
--- Day changed Sun Aug 22 2021
2021-08-22T00:00:17 < Coldberg> (4 layer board)
2021-08-22T00:00:26 < Coldberg> are these still nescassary
2021-08-22T00:00:27 < Coldberg> ?
2021-08-22T00:00:42 < kakium69> who knows?
2021-08-22T00:01:01 < Coldberg> well maybe you people do, that's why I'm asking
2021-08-22T00:01:03 < Coldberg> :P
2021-08-22T00:01:07 < kakium69> it's overengineered to give you no problems
2021-08-22T00:01:22 < Coldberg> it gives my BOM problems
2021-08-22T00:04:01 < kakium69> I think that 4.7uF is a bit excess
2021-08-22T00:04:02 < mouseghost> Coldberg, what are you making?
2021-08-22T00:04:27 < Coldberg> optical disc emulator
2021-08-22T00:04:53 < mouseghost> Coldberg, for fun, for yourself, commercialy or what
2021-08-22T00:04:55 < Coldberg> I am trying to make one, not Idea if it will work
2021-08-22T00:05:10 < Coldberg> well for fun mostly
2021-08-22T00:05:23 < Coldberg> but If it works maybe I'll sell 5 or so
2021-08-22T00:05:23 < mouseghost> then why do you care about these caps so much hm
2021-08-22T00:05:29 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-22T00:05:29 < mouseghost> then idk
2021-08-22T00:05:42 < Coldberg> well I want to work
2021-08-22T00:05:52 < Coldberg> spinning boards is expensive
2021-08-22T00:05:57 < mouseghost> spinning boards?
2021-08-22T00:06:04 < Coldberg> well I mean getting them made
2021-08-22T00:06:07 < Coldberg> and assembled
2021-08-22T00:06:16 < mouseghost> why expensive
2021-08-22T00:06:41 < Coldberg> well it is , I mean maybe some people don't hold 60-70$ alot of money
2021-08-22T00:06:45 < Coldberg> but once you do it a few times
2021-08-22T00:06:49 < Coldberg> it eats into your pocket
2021-08-22T00:07:06 < kakium69> I have never got board made
2021-08-22T00:07:07 < Coldberg> I'm no rich man
2021-08-22T00:07:29 < Coldberg> assembling by hand is not much cheaper either
2021-08-22T00:07:38 < Coldberg> last board I did was 100$ in total
2021-08-22T00:07:39 < kakium69> true
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2021-08-22T00:07:50 < Coldberg> +- 
2021-08-22T00:07:54 < kakium69> and usually it makes sense to buy more than needed
2021-08-22T00:08:13 < mouseghost> Coldberg, you can always place pads and then just leave them empty
2021-08-22T00:08:21 < kakium69> or at least it feels like it
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2021-08-22T00:08:37 < mouseghost> if they are filtering caps
2021-08-22T00:08:39 < Coldberg> i'm planning to get all the passives placed in the factory
2021-08-22T00:08:49 < Coldberg> as I have no patience for it
2021-08-22T00:08:50 < mouseghost> if you have resistors then you can place 0R there
2021-08-22T00:08:52 < mouseghost> ah okay
2021-08-22T00:09:04 < kakium69> Coldberg: 100n caps with 25v ratings cost nothing last time I checked?
2021-08-22T00:09:14 < kakium69> 0603
2021-08-22T00:09:26 < mouseghost> oh yeah i have plenty of caps for cheap
2021-08-22T00:09:43 < Coldberg> depends on where you buy I guess
2021-08-22T00:10:05 < Coldberg> getting them placed in china is cheaper then buying them from mouser
2021-08-22T00:10:18 < kakium69> so you are anxious about the bigger caps?
2021-08-22T00:10:32 < Coldberg> no I'm just wondering ar all of them nescassary
2021-08-22T00:10:38 < Coldberg> just seems like overkill
2021-08-22T00:10:40 < mouseghost> i come form a perspective that the first one is a prototype anyways, and ill always fuck something up, so
2021-08-22T00:10:45 < Coldberg> and it looks ugly
2021-08-22T00:10:52 < mouseghost> Coldberg, well, you placed them
2021-08-22T00:10:56 < kakium69> I think 4.7uF is something you don't need locally
2021-08-22T00:11:05 < Coldberg> I was just following the datasheet
2021-08-22T00:11:13 < kakium69> Couple of 1uF should do
2021-08-22T00:11:18 < kakium69> and every pin 100n
2021-08-22T00:11:22 < Coldberg> *design guide
2021-08-22T00:11:41 < Coldberg> guess i'll leave em
2021-08-22T00:11:55 < kakium69> you can leave em and not place em
2021-08-22T00:11:57 < Coldberg> I'll try to get them off if I ever try to redesign the board
2021-08-22T00:12:28 < kakium69> get 100nFs placed
2021-08-22T00:12:30 < zyp> I've got 55 100nF caps on a board around 20cm2
2021-08-22T00:12:51 < zyp> they're basically free, who cares if they are necessary or not
2021-08-22T00:14:38 < zyp> all 55 of them costs 4.4 cents in total
2021-08-22T00:14:51 < kakium69> what rating zyp?
2021-08-22T00:15:03 < mouseghost> 6.9420V
2021-08-22T00:15:24 < kakium69> what size zyp?
2021-08-22T00:15:39 < zyp> 0402
2021-08-22T00:15:44 < kakium69> the bestest
2021-08-22T00:15:51 < kakium69> easiest to solder by hand
2021-08-22T00:15:59 < kakium69> takes little space too
2021-08-22T00:16:19 < zyp> you think I'm gonna solder thousands of them by hand?
2021-08-22T00:16:28 < mouseghost> yes
2021-08-22T00:19:37 < kakium69> Coldberg: there is no powerplane sturdy enough to make per pin bypass unnecessary even if it can deliver 1000amps it cannot deliver instantly to the pin
2021-08-22T00:19:56 < Steffanx> mouseghost says yes.. for now.
2021-08-22T00:20:26 < Coldberg> kakium69, but how near do you need to get them to the pin then
2021-08-22T00:20:32 < Coldberg> because ones you start laying them down
2021-08-22T00:20:35 < Coldberg> you just run out of room
2021-08-22T00:20:37 < zyp> kakium69, yeah, decoupling caps are about reducing impedance, not resistance
2021-08-22T00:20:52 < zyp> Coldberg, closer is better, obviously
2021-08-22T00:21:03 < kakium69> as close as rules let you
2021-08-22T00:21:21 < kakium69> also do you have 0402 selected?
2021-08-22T00:21:22 < Coldberg> yeah but like there are 3 power pins like right next to each other
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2021-08-22T00:21:30 < Coldberg> and one cap basically blankets them all
2021-08-22T00:21:32 < Coldberg> with one pad
2021-08-22T00:21:33 < zyp> yeah, they can share one
2021-08-22T00:21:53 < Coldberg> and then i try to place 3
2021-08-22T00:21:58 < zyp> nah, fuck that
2021-08-22T00:22:00 < Coldberg> and I have to rote the power 
2021-08-22T00:22:11 < kakium69> place 2 instead of 3
2021-08-22T00:22:14 < Coldberg> it seems pretty dumb
2021-08-22T00:22:19 < kakium69> see how many you can fit there
2021-08-22T00:22:43 < zyp> reducing impedance is a matter of reducing distance, a single cap works just as well as two placed right next to each other
2021-08-22T00:22:55 < kakium69> oh
2021-08-22T00:23:11 < kakium69> I have used like 1cap for 2 pins
2021-08-22T00:23:22 < zyp> I mean, don't take me too literally
2021-08-22T00:23:22 < kakium69> that are next to each other
2021-08-22T00:23:34 < zyp> but still, getting one cap close to the pins is what counts
2021-08-22T00:23:54 < zyp> the improvement from having two is fairly negligible in comparison
2021-08-22T00:24:12 < kakium69> Coldberg: leave via hole outside the footpad
2021-08-22T00:24:34 < kakium69> or just where the soldermask covers it
2021-08-22T00:24:50 < kakium69> I mean capacitor footpad
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2021-08-22T00:26:14 < kakium69> use 0402 caps and 0.3mm via holes(should be available for standard price)
2021-08-22T00:27:14 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png <- here's how I typically do it on a single sided board
2021-08-22T00:27:37 < zyp> the cap that covers three pins close together is the one above the 4-pin crystal on the right side of the stm32
2021-08-22T00:28:32 < Coldberg> do you place caps and the chip on different sides too ?
2021-08-22T00:28:40 < Coldberg> I tried to do it on a single side
2021-08-22T00:28:45 < Coldberg> and it was impossible to route
2021-08-22T00:28:52 < Coldberg> they would cover up all the traces
2021-08-22T00:28:57 < Coldberg> i mean all the pins
2021-08-22T00:28:58 < zyp> depends if the design as a whole calls for double sided assembly or not
2021-08-22T00:29:14 < Coldberg> only way I was able to route it 
2021-08-22T00:29:17 < zyp> the last one I did was, but that one has bga components
2021-08-22T00:29:23 < Coldberg> was putting the bypasses on the other side
2021-08-22T00:29:43 < kakium69> it's what you usually need to do
2021-08-22T00:30:06 < zyp> see https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xPod5/orbtrace_mini.pdf
2021-08-22T00:30:12 < zyp> last pages have layout plots
2021-08-22T00:30:54 < zyp> that's the one with 55 100nFs
2021-08-22T00:34:57 < kakium69> what dis zyp?
2021-08-22T00:36:28 < kakium69> is if fpga?
2021-08-22T00:37:48 < zyp> yes
2021-08-22T00:38:14 < kakium69> ECP5
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2021-08-22T00:38:24 < zyp> yes
2021-08-22T00:38:30 < kakium69> you did it
2021-08-22T00:38:59 < kakium69> did you build it?
2021-08-22T00:39:26 < zyp> had the prototypes for a couple of months, will have production units for sale soon
2021-08-22T00:40:47 < kakium69> LA?
2021-08-22T00:40:58 < kakium69> breakout board?
2021-08-22T00:41:15 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace
2021-08-22T00:41:38 < zyp> dedicated hardware for it
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2021-08-22T00:48:52 < kakium69> you have buyers lining up?
2021-08-22T00:48:59 < kakium69> so that you can run a batch?
2021-08-22T00:49:24 < zyp> yeah, wanna get in line? check issue #1 on the repo
2021-08-22T00:50:59 < kakium69> I don't even have chips that use trace
2021-08-22T00:51:05 < kakium69> :O
2021-08-22T00:51:38 < kakium69> some old lpc maybe
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2021-08-22T00:52:24 < kakium69> lpc1769
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2021-08-22T00:57:19 < zyp> all stm32 with cortex-m3 and up and enough IOs to bring out the trace signals are trace capable
2021-08-22T00:57:41 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-22T00:58:00 < zyp> only reason I haven't put trace connectors on anything so far is that I didn't have a j-trace or whatever
2021-08-22T00:58:25 < zyp> with trace hardware becoming available much cheaper, there's a reason to start bringing it out
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2021-08-22T01:00:06 < zyp> in practice I'm probably gonna use https://www.tag-connect.com/product/tc2030-ctx-etm
2021-08-22T01:00:22 < zyp> I'm already putting the TC2030 footprint for debug on most of what I do
2021-08-22T01:00:45 < zyp> adding a TC2050 footprint for trace is zero cost as long as the pins are available
2021-08-22T01:01:26 < zyp> barring that, I'm also intending to add fast SWO capture
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2021-08-22T01:03:02 < kakium69> fast meaning you set SWO to clock out as fast it can and the probe with capture it effortlessly?
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2021-08-22T01:03:36 < zyp> yes
2021-08-22T01:03:58 < kakium69> what SWO speeds there are out there?
2021-08-22T01:04:03 < zyp> here's 168 Mbaud SWO probed at the fpga input: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DwLan.png
2021-08-22T01:04:18 < kakium69> hmm
2021-08-22T01:04:29 < kakium69> that is fastest you found?
2021-08-22T01:04:53 < kakium69> your scope makes it funky?
2021-08-22T01:05:00 < zyp> it's a f4 with 168MHz sysclock, with swo divider set to /1
2021-08-22T01:05:35 < kakium69> ah not even some high speed arm
2021-08-22T01:06:05 < kakium69> but those may not have SWO
2021-08-22T01:06:23 < kakium69> if we talk about arm processors or socs
2021-08-22T01:06:37 < zyp> orbtrace is cortex-m oriented
2021-08-22T01:07:09 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-22T01:07:50 < zyp> and what do you mean funky? that's a pretty nice looking signal, considering it's 168 Mbaud captured with a 200 MHz rated probe :p
2021-08-22T01:09:11 < zyp> unsure how fast I can get the FPGA to capture it though, haven't attempted that yet
2021-08-22T01:11:12 < kakium69> few hundreds my guess
2021-08-22T01:12:52 < upgrdman> anyone know if stm32 chips are really going to be sold out for 1 year?
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2021-08-22T01:22:07 < Steffanx-> Possibly 
2021-08-22T01:22:28 < Steffanx-> I think no one really knows 
2021-08-22T01:22:35 < upgrdman> shit
2021-08-22T01:22:55 < Steffanx-> The market is batshit crazy
2021-08-22T01:23:03 < upgrdman> anyone know of a product containing the f730z8t6? i'm willing to desolder and reuse an mcu :/
2021-08-22T01:23:12 < upgrdman> ya no kidding
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2021-08-22T01:26:14 < upgrdman> hmm
2021-08-22T01:26:32 < upgrdman> is there a stm doc outline pin compatible chips?
2021-08-22T01:27:01 < upgrdman> f7 nucleo has an lqfp144 f7, might be able to use it in place of the f730z8t6
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2021-08-22T01:42:51 < karlp> octorian: dapboot works on l1 as well, and it's just libopencm3 based so it works  on ~anything else as well, just needs the board level bits, which are straightforward.  (even I could manage it)
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2021-08-22T01:43:54 < karlp> webusb is going to be a chrome only solution as far as I can see.... that may or may not bother people :)
2021-08-22T01:44:29  * qyx is in those 3% of firefox
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2021-08-22T01:50:20 < qyx> what's the saying about never stepping into the same river twice
2021-08-22T01:50:32 < qyx> I am going to use a BQxxx charger
2021-08-22T01:58:20  * karlp adds 50 colours to weechat, still ends up with two people with the same colour... at least they're not the same length as last time :)
2021-08-22T01:58:32 < mawk> who
2021-08-22T02:04:54 < karlp> kakium69: you can actually get https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/3/3m/embedded-capacitance-material-ecm to use as a layer in your pcb, if you reallllly don't want to mount caps :)  (but you're gonna want to just use caps....)
2021-08-22T02:05:27 < mawk> nice
2021-08-22T02:05:51 < mawk> for a filtering cap between ground layer and vcc layer?
2021-08-22T02:06:04 < mawk> or with that size even more than filtering, like storage or whatever
2021-08-22T02:06:13 < kakium69> bypass
2021-08-22T02:06:17 < kakium69> definitelly
2021-08-22T02:06:24 < kakium69> it's just a film
2021-08-22T02:06:30 < mawk> it says 0.1µF max
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2021-08-22T02:20:54 < mouseghost> goodnight
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2021-08-22T02:27:27 < karlp> any opninons on wifi vs bt for led strips?
2021-08-22T02:28:05 < mawk> what kind of wifi, an AP on the led strip?
2021-08-22T02:28:08 < mawk> that you connect to from a phone
2021-08-22T02:28:27 < karlp> I'm inclined to go with bt, as it will be easier for other people to just install the app, and with enough geeking out, apparnetly you can talk to them with gatttool on a pc
2021-08-22T02:28:27 < mawk> if it's that, it's not very ergonomic, bluetooth is better
2021-08-22T02:28:36 < mawk> yes
2021-08-22T02:28:47 < karlp> yeah, apparently, they can then be used to connect to a home's wifi as a client, but yeah, I'm inclined to go with bt.
2021-08-22T02:28:48 < mawk> in any case BT will be easier for the end user, less configuration/manipulation
2021-08-22T02:29:05 < karlp> none of us are going to be alexa/et al asking the lights to do things anyway.
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2021-08-22T02:34:12 < karlp> hrm, apparently you can get 12v and 24v systems
2021-08-22T02:34:19 < karlp> I guess that only matters if you're trying to extend them...
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2021-08-22T06:31:53 < ColdKeyboard> Any suggestions on how to trigger touch screen with a micro? :)
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2021-08-22T08:16:19 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: mount a touch screen pen on a 3D printer
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2021-08-22T08:27:33 < ColdKeyboard> That's one option. I was thinking of something less robotic and more solid state
2021-08-22T08:28:03 < ColdKeyboard> I was playing with some copper tape and triggering touch screen by pulling the "copper" LOW or letting it float. It kind of works :)
2021-08-22T08:28:53 < ColdKeyboard> Touch should be detecting changes in E-Field, so I thought there is already some whitepaper or DIY jig that does this by manipulating E-field... so far couldn't find much
2021-08-22T08:34:18 < qyx> capacitive touch is detecting changes in permittivity
2021-08-22T08:34:20 < jpa-> AFAIK touchscreens are specifically designed not to be affected by external electric fields (such as electrostatic charge on users body), but only relative capacitance between electrodes
2021-08-22T08:35:07 < qyx> so anything that changes fringing capacitance of one-end-opened electrodes
2021-08-22T08:35:18 < qyx> as jpa- said
2021-08-22T08:36:21 < jpa-> but that understanding does not explain why most touchscreens do not detect a copper tape that is not touched by used
2021-08-22T08:36:37 < qyx> hm true
2021-08-22T08:38:54 < jpa-> theoretically low capacitance transistors could be used to switch a grid of electrodes
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2021-08-22T08:48:32 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- I have something like that working. 
2021-08-22T08:48:55 < ColdKeyboard> I was just curious if there is a more "scientific" method or something that people already used
2021-08-22T08:49:19 < ColdKeyboard> Copper tape or PCB next to screen doesn't get detected by the phone. But if you pull the pad to GND it will trigger the touch screen
2021-08-22T08:49:41 < ColdKeyboard> Mostly empirical observation, so I'm not sure how to improve on it :)
2021-08-22T08:59:09 < jpa-> do you actually have the transistors figured out?
2021-08-22T09:23:43 < qyx> I have read a bit about the scattered radio mouseghost mentioned yesterday
2021-08-22T09:23:50 < qyx> I actually find it quite useful
2021-08-22T09:24:29 < qyx> range needs to be improved a bit but otherwise it is a working concept
2021-08-22T09:24:52 < qyx> ideally suited for eg. greenhouses, where you can have transmitter on one side, sensors in the middle and receiver on the other
2021-08-22T09:25:05 < qyx> time to use some stm32 to try it out
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2021-08-22T10:02:05 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/xadoyuyeti.shell << so, after few days, mcu got stuck, this is what I get when, while crashed, I check backtrace... ideas how to fix? Is there a way I can check how much is malloc`ated ? :D or smthn
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2021-08-22T10:20:30 < jpa-> Fleck: use armv7m macro 'vecstate' to check the hardfault reason (i assume this is a hardfault and you just don't have a hardfault handler)
2021-08-22T10:21:38 < Fleck> yeah I guess so, thanks, will vecstate!
2021-08-22T10:24:54 < Fleck> I have to wait few days tho :D
2021-08-22T11:04:55 < qyx> reminds me, is there any way of doing "coredumps" including the processor state?
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2021-08-22T11:10:36 < qyx> looks legit https://community.nxp.com/t5/CodeWarrior-Development-Tools/Performing-a-core-stack-dump-on-a-Cortex-M4-MCU/td-p/338928
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2021-08-22T11:26:39 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, i've done it from hardfault handler, dump registers & save ram
2021-08-22T11:27:45 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/debug.c  here is my implementation, it stores the registers in a global variable so that it goes as part of the ram dump
2021-08-22T11:30:54 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/gdb_debug_memory_dump.txt  and this is what i used to debug in gdb simulator target; apparently i've been lazy and not restored all registers :)
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2021-08-22T12:04:05 < mouseghost> HELLO
2021-08-22T12:37:52 < Steffann> Gooday 
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2021-08-22T21:42:11 < Fleck> so I am trying different ways to hardfault stm32, did `return *(volatile uint32_t *)0xbadcafe;` in a function, this got me to here, but, how can I now tell, how I got there (if for example I didn't know): https://p.rullz.lv/kebevukeju.shell
2021-08-22T21:42:51 < mawk> the arm manual says in which register you have to look
2021-08-22T21:43:04 < mawk> or use the magic gdb startup file karlp or someone made
2021-08-22T21:43:54 < Fleck> can you be more specific?
2021-08-22T21:44:03 < Fleck> which ARM manual? :D
2021-08-22T21:44:10 < mawk> the one pertaining to your cpu
2021-08-22T21:44:24 < mawk> it's probably in the list of manuals on the st page for your chip
2021-08-22T21:45:15 < mawk> it's the manual for the arm cpu itself, not the manual of the mcu
2021-08-22T21:45:36 < Fleck> aha, so programming manual I guess?
2021-08-22T21:45:40 < Fleck> st calls them
2021-08-22T21:46:34 < mawk> maybe yes
2021-08-22T21:49:07 < PaulFertser> The magic script is at https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips
2021-08-22T21:50:36 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb
2021-08-22T21:50:59 < Fleck> my paste was vecstate return...
2021-08-22T21:51:21 < PaulFertser> You're on m3/m4, not on m0?
2021-08-22T21:52:41 < Fleck> h743
2021-08-22T21:52:59 < Fleck> m7
2021-08-22T21:53:34 < PaulFertser> Fleck: lines 10-11 were supposed to show your full proper backtrace.
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2021-08-22T21:55:05 < Fleck> yeah, but they don't :/
2021-08-22T21:55:38 < mawk> is it the same arm version for h7?
2021-08-22T21:55:44 < Fleck> I guess I need HardFault_Handler to save some info or smth
2021-08-22T21:56:04 < mawk> you don't need anything for that script to work
2021-08-22T21:56:12 < mawk> you just need to not mess up the registers
2021-08-22T21:57:58 < PaulFertser> Yes, in case you're using the script you should just "b $" or whatever you call it to loop in your Handler, do exactly nothing.
2021-08-22T22:02:07 < mawk> b .
2021-08-22T22:02:31 < mawk> ie the default handler
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2021-08-22T22:57:32 < Fleck> I have default handler, but dunno why I don't end up there, it has inf. loop there
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2021-08-22T23:33:18 < karlp> Fleck: it's possible the vecstate script needs amending for some different m7 register stacking? 
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2021-08-22T23:36:18 < Fleck> idk karlp, my knowledge is not great about ARM core principles :/
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2021-08-22T23:37:20 < karlp> so, I mean, at least look at what lr points to,
2021-08-22T23:37:40 < karlp> 0x08000372 is the arm float shits, but what's 080003b5 ?
2021-08-22T23:37:49 < karlp> nm or objdump or whatever will find you that in your own code.
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2021-08-22T23:38:10 < karlp> stupid ali cart I setup last night is 25% more expensive today now that the measurements have been confirmed... :|
2021-08-22T23:38:40 < karlp> normally, seeing broken back traces  like that mean that the stack has been trampled,
2021-08-22T23:38:58 < karlp> so it's attempted to decode as per the ABI register stacking, but ran into apparent garbage.
2021-08-22T23:43:58 < Fleck> thanks karlp, more things to learn about! :)
2021-08-22T23:44:42 < karlp> https://github.com/PX4/PX4-Autopilot/blob/master/platforms/nuttx/Debug/ARMv7M
2021-08-22T23:44:51 < karlp> damnit
2021-08-22T23:45:00 < karlp> pretty sure this is the "original" upstream source: you can see if there have been any updates, but I cna't see any at quick glance of the logs: https://github.com/PX4/PX4-Autopilot/blob/master/platforms/nuttx/Debug/ARMv7M
2021-08-22T23:59:24 < Fleck> 080003b5 seems to be in .text section
--- Day changed Mon Aug 23 2021
2021-08-23T00:04:05 < Fleck> OK that helped karlp objdump -S shows 2 lines before I call my hardfaulting code function, thats a start at least...
2021-08-23T00:04:24 < Fleck> 080003b5 I mean...
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2021-08-23T00:23:26 < karlp> I'd suspect that's a bug in vecstate if you want to fix it :)
2021-08-23T00:23:42 < karlp> you'd have to read a bit more about the bus error (precise) and what's meant ot be where :)
2021-08-23T00:26:04 < Fleck> precise error I am making intentional
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2021-08-23T00:28:36 < Fleck> I have this project, that uses all kinds of libs, and after few days it hardfaults, need to learn how to find what's causing this, bt is pretty useless, thats why I hardfault my MCU and try to understand things how to debug, get info where are we comming from etc...
2021-08-23T00:31:57 < karlp> there's a few good appntoes, from ti, and also from st, and silabs iirc, "understanding hardfaults on cortex m" or something
2021-08-23T00:32:09 < karlp> it basicalyl steps you though the process that the vecstate script does.
2021-08-23T00:32:21 < karlp> beyond that you're looking into the armv7m manuals to see what it all means :)
2021-08-23T00:33:04 < Fleck> OK, thanks...
2021-08-23T00:33:15 < qyx> it is ridicuolus no moderately good TI/Analol/LT part are available
2021-08-23T00:33:26 < qyx> only old/legacy things
2021-08-23T00:33:46 < qyx> no high power, super efficient, low Iq parts
2021-08-23T00:34:20 < qyx> I'll need to use some china cloned MC33063
2021-08-23T00:41:14 < Steffann> Lol its your daily rage about the shortage moment qyx? :P
2021-08-23T00:42:07 < Steffann> Need some f042 or G491? Lqfp 48 (I think) . I was cleaning some boxes and found some gold.
2021-08-23T00:42:30 < qyx> wat do you have F042?
2021-08-23T00:42:58 < Steffann> Only 2. 
2021-08-23T00:43:04 < qyx> nah
2021-08-23T00:43:09 < Steffann> Lol
2021-08-23T00:44:56 < qyx> is using Maxim switcher desperate enough?
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2021-08-23T01:13:13 < karlp> what do you reckon, would the "aux" port on this bt+wired headset: https://denver.eu/products/audio/head-earphones/denver-bth-205/c-1024/c-1168/p-2847 include the mic? ie, trrs? or would "aux" be _only_ headphones?
2021-08-23T01:14:55 < zyp> my sennheisers only got aux input, but my boses are inout
2021-08-23T01:15:14 < zyp> so it could go either way
2021-08-23T01:15:44 < karlp> fucking headset I use for ps4 has a detachable mic, and went to plug it in the other day to play with a friend, and all sounds fine, but.... just no signal.
2021-08-23T01:15:59 < karlp> tedious finding a replacement.  fucking things are overly expensive IMO
2021-08-23T01:17:06 < zyp> manual doesn't mention mic out, so I would assume input only
2021-08-23T01:17:28 < karlp> seems reasonable.
2021-08-23T01:18:59 < karlp> lol.  Just went and tried plugging and unplugging and checking the cable again.  kids have flicked the mute switch.
2021-08-23T01:19:01 < karlp> ffs.
2021-08-23T01:19:19 < karlp> I never touch it.
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2021-08-23T01:28:13 < Steffann> Lol kids
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2021-08-23T06:56:45 < jpa-> kids are awesome scapegoat for stuff like that
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2021-08-23T12:19:21 < karlp> well, I let them play with stuff, and it's all pretty tough stuff, I thought they might have broken something inside dropping them or something, but ther ewas no rattle or anything
2021-08-23T12:19:37 < karlp> never even thought to look at the switch I never need/use half way down the cable :)
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2021-08-23T12:33:24 < jadew> dell monitors are shit
2021-08-23T12:33:39 < jadew> I just saw static for the first time on an LCD
2021-08-23T12:33:57 < jadew> like it was some out of tune TV
2021-08-23T12:34:22 < jadew> I turned off a mains fan and it went into statics mode
2021-08-23T12:34:55 < jadew> this is the same monitor that takes 4 minutes to turn off when the PC goes to sleep
2021-08-23T12:38:14 < ventyl> aren't all monitors using essentially the same controllers?
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2021-08-23T12:46:55 < englishman> dell monitors generally are shit
2021-08-23T12:46:59 < englishman> but they have the best panels
2021-08-23T12:49:21 < karlp> isn't the panel the defining quality of a ... panel? surely that means dell monitors are... good?
2021-08-23T12:49:42 < karlp> funky bug of the day: https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/9012
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2021-08-23T13:17:12 < englishman> the panel is good, the rest is utter garbage
2021-08-23T13:17:59 < englishman> opacity problem?
2021-08-23T13:18:49 < karlp> don't really care, was just playing with the colour picker, hadn't ever needed it before, just thought it was cute and gave it a try
2021-08-23T14:03:05 < ventyl> jesus, TIL that my ex-company, which started transition to CI-friendly processes somewhere in december 2019 is still not there
2021-08-23T14:13:49 < ventyl> s/company/employer/
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2021-08-23T14:26:56 < jpa-> they are using the constant transition process now
2021-08-23T15:11:38 < jpa-> does anyone happen to know of a chip that would contain I/Q-demodulator suitable for 1-50 MHz frequency range? i have a sensor excited with a AC signal and i would want to get the phase & amplitude of the response while filtering out other frequencies
2021-08-23T15:13:19 < jpa-> i could build it out of analog switches and lowpass filters, but that gets a bit cumbersome; and direct sampling at 200+ MSps seems excessive when the actual sensor data is about 100 Hz
2021-08-23T15:21:12 < jpa-> something like SA602A but quadrature
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2021-08-23T16:57:58 < Laurenceb> wew this coronavirus news
2021-08-23T16:58:03 < Laurenceb> looks like it was GM'd
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2021-08-23T17:00:45 < englishman> of course it was
2021-08-23T17:01:49 < englishman> china is the only place that has a lackadaisical attitude towards the ethics of gain-of-function virology development, and also poor procedural barriers against propagation
2021-08-23T17:02:23 < englishman> even my phd immunologist says there's about a 50% chance it was part of some legit research and 50% it mutated from an animal
2021-08-23T17:02:44 < englishman> miss the word pal in there
2021-08-23T17:09:58 < Laurenceb> https://uktechnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NO-FEE-VRAI-MIN-HUMPHREYS-JB8-1-1-2048x1365.jpg
2021-08-23T17:10:01 < Laurenceb> what the ...
2021-08-23T17:10:11 < Laurenceb> what a strange group of characters
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2021-08-23T17:26:47 < karlp> I'd still say it's ~zero that it was deliberately released as part of a test though.
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2021-08-23T17:32:27  * karlp puts the stm32 ont he table and wonders how this works again
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2021-08-23T17:46:37 < mawk> why strange Laurenceb 
2021-08-23T17:46:56 < mawk> they're obviously french and it means "true"
2021-08-23T17:47:00 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-08-23T17:47:16 < Laurenceb> that explains why they are weird
2021-08-23T17:47:53  * Laurenceb is trying to identify equpment
2021-08-23T17:48:29 < Laurenceb> I have I2C running over a connector, then _something_ will be bolted to the equipment, and the I2C lead will plug into it
2021-08-23T17:49:05 < Laurenceb> at the moment I've found some Dallas parts (expensive), microchip, and onsemi making i2c unique id devices
2021-08-23T17:49:11 < Laurenceb> anyone know of any others?
2021-08-23T17:49:29 < Laurenceb> atm I'm going for N24S64, but its 128bit ID which is annoyingly long
2021-08-23T17:50:14 < ventyl> 9 out of 10 qyxes wouldn't recommend running I2C through connectors
2021-08-23T17:50:38 < ventyl> I run I2C through lowest possible grade ghetto style bolt-on connectors
2021-08-23T17:50:45 < karlp> do you just mean 24aa shit eeproms with unique ids?
2021-08-23T17:51:01 < karlp> you should be able to get that from china too.... for certain versions of unique...
2021-08-23T17:57:35 < Laurenceb> karlp: it could be, but then there needs to be infrastructure for loading unique ids onto them
2021-08-23T17:57:41 < Laurenceb> not just "buy this part"
2021-08-23T17:57:52 < mawk> you're the i2c slave so Laurenceb ?
2021-08-23T17:58:01 < mawk> ah
2021-08-23T17:58:09 < mawk> well you can ask the chinese to load the id probably
2021-08-23T17:59:16 < aandrew> Laurenceb: yeah 24AAxxE48 or E64 are available
2021-08-23T17:59:17 < aandrew> I use those
2021-08-23T17:59:18 < karlp> lol, no. 24aa shit is i2c eeprom that has a page pre-burned with unique ids
2021-08-23T17:59:33 < Laurenceb> oh
2021-08-23T17:59:36 < karlp> fucking buying eeproms and manually writing ids to them are you insane?
2021-08-23T17:59:39 < aandrew> no
2021-08-23T17:59:45 < karlp> 24aa<howmuch eepromdo you want as a bonus>
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2021-08-23T17:59:51 < aandrew> the E48 and E64 have read-only pages with unique IDs
2021-08-23T17:59:56 < karlp> ON semi, mchp, cheap and readily available.
2021-08-23T18:00:07 < aandrew> I just bought qty100 of the latter because I love them
2021-08-23T18:00:40 < aandrew> cheap, SOT23-6, gives me unique ID and a bit of space for other data (MPN, serial, key, cal data, whatever)
2021-08-23T18:01:13 < Laurenceb> yeah I saw the microchip stuff
2021-08-23T18:01:37 < Laurenceb> just wondered if anyone else makes similar part, I have very limited space as it has to fit inside a plug
2021-08-23T18:01:42 < karlp> n24s64 looks ~same really.
2021-08-23T18:01:58 < karlp> has a few more features maybe, but same idea, eeprom with some preburnt shit
2021-08-23T18:02:20 < Laurenceb> N24S64 is the only really small thing I've found so far, but 128bit is a pain, unless I just use 64bits and count on it not colliding 
2021-08-23T18:02:51 < karlp> what's teh impact of a collision?
2021-08-23T18:03:25 < Laurenceb> prob makes the datalogging database go mad
2021-08-23T18:03:51 < Laurenceb> but it wouldnt harm any of the other datasets
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2021-08-23T18:05:07 < karlp> at21cs comes in a tiny package, same thing...
2021-08-23T18:05:30 < karlp> take your pick: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/memory/serial-eeprom/mac-address-and-unique-id-eeproms
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2021-08-23T18:08:20 < karlp> can get them in a 0.4mm pitch 4ball WLCSP....
2021-08-23T18:11:50 < Laurenceb> nice, but its single wire, not i2c
2021-08-23T18:14:09 < aandrew> Laurenceb: it's trivial to hash it down to whatever width you want
2021-08-23T18:14:51 < aandrew> I was hashing the STM32's unique ID (basically lot + x + y on die) to 32-bits using the hardware CRC32 and then flipping a few bits to make a valid MAC
2021-08-23T18:15:10 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-08-23T18:15:59 < Laurenceb> I'll prob go with N24S64, looks like avnet have 15M in stock
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2021-08-23T18:20:10 < mawk> my company uses board resistors for uid
2021-08-23T18:20:19 < mawk> apparently randomized at assembly or something
2021-08-23T18:21:17 < Laurenceb> yeah I suggested that...
2021-08-23T18:21:28 < Laurenceb> it didnt go down too well
2021-08-23T18:22:38 < mawk> what's wrong with the builtin stm32 id
2021-08-23T18:22:42 < mawk> like aandrew says
2021-08-23T18:23:54 < mawk> compute probability of collision
2021-08-23T18:24:15 < Laurenceb> I'm not going to stick a stm32 in the plug lol
2021-08-23T18:24:37 < Laurenceb> but yeah CRC/hash of the 128bit id down to 64bit or 32bit should have ~0 chance of collision
2021-08-23T18:24:41 < mawk> what's into the main connector then?
2021-08-23T18:25:14 < Laurenceb> there is a unit that plugs in, but its a standard unit that is swappable
2021-08-23T18:25:29 < Laurenceb> the plug holds the info on where it actually is physically
2021-08-23T18:26:54 < mawk> it's birthday paradox probability, 1 - N!/(N^n (N-n)!) with N number of possible IDs and n the number of devices
2021-08-23T18:27:06 < mawk> ah
2021-08-23T18:30:57 < mawk> for n >> N we can simplify as 1-exp(n(n+1)/(2N)) the probability of collision
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2021-08-23T18:31:39 < aandrew> http://mixdown.ca/dump/frame-2104x1560-mono16bit.raw
2021-08-23T18:32:36 < aandrew> That is not a "raw" format file - that is literally 3.2 million 10-bit pixels arranged as 1560 lines of 2104 pixels each - do any of you have a program that can take that as input and NOT try to be smart about it?
2021-08-23T18:32:53 < aandrew> literally say "this blob should be arranged as 2104x1560" and let you play with the encodings of the pixels?
2021-08-23T18:34:52 < mawk> so if we want p < 0.0001 then n ~= √(2N*0.0001) basically
2021-08-23T18:35:10 < mawk> so if you're going to use a 32 bit id, you're very safe for around 300 devices Laurenceb 
2021-08-23T18:35:32 < mawk> then you can ajdust the probability of collision as you like
2021-08-23T18:35:42 < Laurenceb> ok thanks
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2021-08-23T18:36:37 < mawk> each bit is a pixel aandrew ?
2021-08-23T18:36:40 < mawk> a bw pixel
2021-08-23T18:36:49 < mawk> ah no sorry
2021-08-23T18:36:51 < Laurenceb> yeah I have up to a few thousand devices, but my code can support 64bit ids
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2021-08-23T18:37:17 < aandrew> each 16-bits is a pixel
2021-08-23T18:37:20 < mawk> so what's 2 bytes inside this file aandrew , does it contain just 1 pixel? or does it contain 1.6 pixels
2021-08-23T18:37:22 < mawk> ah
2021-08-23T18:37:24 < mawk> right
2021-08-23T18:37:49 < karlp> (I also hash the stm32 uuid down to make serials)
2021-08-23T18:38:25 < mawk> I'd just do a quick python notebook and that's it aandrew 
2021-08-23T18:38:40 < mawk> you can use the struct module to extract uint16s
2021-08-23T18:38:46 < mawk> or array module
2021-08-23T18:38:51 < mawk> yes array module would be very useful
2021-08-23T18:38:58 < mawk> you could modify immediately the pixels
2021-08-23T18:50:57 < aandrew> basically the image sensor is told to emit a standard colorbar pattern instead of whatever the array sees
2021-08-23T18:51:42 < mawk> I mean the module "array" in python std lib
2021-08-23T18:52:21 < aandrew> yeah I'm python stupid, I wonder if I can do that
2021-08-23T18:54:04 < aandrew> e.g. the start of the blob is ff 03 ff 03 ff 03 which are the first three pixels, each with value 3ff
2021-08-23T18:58:59 < Laurenceb> maybe covid 19 vaccine nanochips have a unique id
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2021-08-23T18:59:46 < Laurenceb> then we could combine emdrive powered coronavirus with solar roadways
2021-08-23T19:00:30 < c10ud> aandrew, iirc irfanview had a viewer for raw
2021-08-23T19:01:34 < karlp> oy
2021-08-23T19:01:35 < c10ud> but you may be better off writing your own tiny c app for it and just convert to bmp
2021-08-23T19:01:42 < mawk> if you wait a few hours I can try it for you aandrew 
2021-08-23T19:01:45 < karlp> he said it's not "raw" like that...
2021-08-23T19:01:47 < mawk> the python script
2021-08-23T19:02:06 < mawk> what operation do you want to do with the data exactly?
2021-08-23T19:02:17 < mawk> convert to another format?
2021-08-23T19:02:31 < c10ud> karlp, what did you make assume I intended 'raw' as in digital camera raw?
2021-08-23T19:02:40 < karlp> when you said irfan view could do it?
2021-08-23T19:03:03 < c10ud> I might be wrong, but I remember it had a raw-raw viewer
2021-08-23T19:03:09 < c10ud> as in, raw bytes
2021-08-23T19:03:22 < mawk> so the data is little endian uint16_t
2021-08-23T19:03:40 < mawk>  https://docs.python.org/fr/3/library/array.html
2021-08-23T19:05:41 < mawk> f = open('file.raw', mode='rb'); a = array.array('H', f.read())
2021-08-23T19:06:26 < mawk> then a[2104*line + column]
2021-08-23T19:06:35 < mawk> to get the pixel at (line; column)
2021-08-23T19:06:40 < mawk> that's just it aandrew 
2021-08-23T19:07:55 < karlp> image magick _might_ be able to be convinced to eat it as is...
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2021-08-23T19:08:53 < mawk> yes
2021-08-23T19:08:57 < mawk> or pcm file format
2021-08-23T19:09:06 < mawk> just add the right header
2021-08-23T19:09:12 < mawk> I think it's pcm
2021-08-23T19:09:42 < mawk> also do you know the palette aandrew ?
2021-08-23T19:10:13 < aandrew> no, imagemagick is garbage for this, I've been playing with it for like 3 days
2021-08-23T19:11:16 < aandrew> reading it as rgb it thinks it's 16*3 bits per pixel, as grayscale it is doing osmething real screwy thinking that the file isn't big enough (doesn't produce partial output), doing real goofy shit to interpret as RGB565 doesn't work...
2021-08-23T19:11:33 < aandrew> it should be grayscale
2021-08-23T19:11:46 < aandrew> although what it actually does for test pattern output I'm not sure
2021-08-23T19:11:49 < aandrew> but this sensor has no bayer layer
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2021-08-23T19:17:14 < Steffanx> Why you no write something mr aandrew ?
2021-08-23T19:17:31 < Steffanx> That doesnt take 3 days 
2021-08-23T19:28:24 < karlp> well, raw file size calcs says that your 2104x1560 x 16bpp greyscale is wrong.
2021-08-23T19:29:05 < karlp> is it really meant to be greyscale or what?
2021-08-23T19:30:42 < karlp> if you have an offset in the file or something that's cool, just let us know...
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2021-08-23T19:35:37 < karlp> this is what I get: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ei3HO/out_normal.png
2021-08-23T19:35:42 < karlp> looks... "colour bar" ish?
2021-08-23T19:35:48 < karlp> convert -size 2112x1560 -depth 16 -endian MSB gray:frame-2104x1560-mono16bit.raw  out_normal.png
2021-08-23T19:39:20 < karlp> truncating either the front or the end to get your "2104" results in garbage torn slopy shit.
2021-08-23T19:42:16 < jpa-> yeah, looks colour bar before bayer interpolation
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2021-08-23T19:47:56 < upgrdman> wow, this is a cool r/c car robot thinggy https://i.imgur.com/6b2ivt6.gifv
2021-08-23T19:49:08 < karlp> you can add a "-define quantum:format=signed" there ifyou like.... it kinda just flips it at the moment, but might be correct for you?
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2021-08-23T19:53:10 < karlp> upgrdman: neat :)
2021-08-23T19:53:28 < upgrdman> ya
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2021-08-23T20:11:53 < karlp> my debayer attempt failed badly...
2021-08-23T20:13:13 < karlp> can't be too far off though: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/y1EsT/out_colour_hoho_1032.png
2021-08-23T20:14:01 < karlp> ok, enough of this distraction...
2021-08-23T20:16:50 < bitmask> is there a stepper motor between the nema6/8 and the 28byj-48
2021-08-23T20:25:28 < englishman> aandrew: karlp doesnt it have to be debayerized, which means you need to know the arrangement of the bayer filter
2021-08-23T20:27:27 < englishman> oh yeah looks like karl made an attempt, i wonder which filter he assumed is being used
2021-08-23T20:27:49 < karlp> I used whatever that pðage said, but it's clearly never going to be correct without actually knowing, or experimenting further.
2021-08-23T20:27:57 < karlp> but it's 5:30 here now, so... not doing that :)
2021-08-23T20:28:45 < englishman> 🍺
2021-08-23T20:29:13 < karlp> http://im.snibgo.com/procbay.htm#artif is probably handy, except for the gross windows bat file syntax
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2021-08-23T20:48:37 < aandrew> karlp: there is no bayer layer, it's a grayscale sensor
2021-08-23T20:49:01 < aandrew> thank you, that is interesting
2021-08-23T20:49:38 < karlp> well, you definitely have something going on there...
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2021-08-23T21:01:06 < englishman> Image sensors don’t always spit out data left to right top to bottom
2021-08-23T21:01:13 < englishman> in fact many dont
2021-08-23T21:01:24 < englishman> have you checked that 
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2021-08-23T22:00:41 < Laurenceb> just when you thought freenode count get more cancerous
2021-08-23T22:00:48 < Laurenceb> *couldnt
2021-08-23T22:00:58 < Laurenceb> weird registration shit required
2021-08-23T22:01:23 < Laurenceb> >please give ur passport to mossad
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2021-08-23T22:18:51 < Steffanx-> Laurenceb, your lagging behind
2021-08-23T22:18:54 < Steffanx-> youre
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2021-08-23T23:01:37 < bitmask> well damn, im glad I didnt buy one of those riden psus
2021-08-23T23:02:15 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/ddll7TTJTow?t=577
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2021-08-24T01:04:45 < Laurenceb> the demiurge!
2021-08-24T01:05:44 < Laurenceb> holy shit wew
2021-08-24T01:05:57 < Laurenceb> China has totally poisoned google with their fake conspiracy shit
2021-08-24T01:06:12 < Laurenceb> muh fort whateverthefuckitscalled
2021-08-24T01:14:57 < kakium69> ventyl: new oils are in forks
2021-08-24T01:15:05 < kakium69> there is an issue
2021-08-24T01:15:24 < kakium69> I didn't close caps yet
2021-08-24T01:15:39 < kakium69> wanted to play with settings and try dampping
2021-08-24T01:16:00 < kakium69> rebound is matching between fork legs
2021-08-24T01:16:29 < kakium69> compression is way off.. 3 clicks out in one matches 7 clicks out in another
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2021-08-24T10:37:48 < jpa-> usually selecting "Only in stock" makes it easier to find reasonable chips.. nowadays it just finds chips that are weird shit that no-one would use
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2021-08-24T10:56:42 < jadew> karlp, there is a much higher than zero chance that it was intentionally released
2021-08-24T10:57:21 < jadew> remember that back then HK was at the brink of civil war
2021-08-24T10:58:39 < jadew> but China's enemies could have done it just as well
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2021-08-24T11:01:22 < jadew> also, the gain of function research in wuhan was being funded by the USA, because they didn't want to do it on US soil
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2021-08-24T11:03:48 < jadew> there's a video of Fauci getting questioned in front of the senate, and while he tries to deny it, that's what further questioning concludes
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2021-08-24T11:54:09 < karlp> well, they're doing it on us soil right now :)
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2021-08-24T15:28:06 < bitmask> anyone using solidworks for makers?
2021-08-24T15:28:22 < jadew> is that free?
2021-08-24T15:31:34 < bitmask> o
2021-08-24T15:31:35 < bitmask> no
2021-08-24T15:31:40 < bitmask> $99 a year i believe
2021-08-24T15:31:47 < jadew> ah, fuck that
2021-08-24T15:32:05 < jadew> fusion is free for personal use
2021-08-24T15:32:13 < bitmask> thats not bad if its decent, but not sure what limitations there are and theres a debate going if its online only in a browser but i think it installs locally
2021-08-24T15:32:27 < jadew> have you used it before?
2021-08-24T15:32:29 < bitmask> nope
2021-08-24T15:32:37 < jadew> have you used fusion before?
2021-08-24T15:32:41 < bitmask> yea thats what i use
2021-08-24T15:32:49 < jadew> yeah, you're going to hate solidworks
2021-08-24T15:33:02 < bitmask> i thought it would take some getting used to but would be better
2021-08-24T15:33:23 < bitmask> how do fusion simulations work? do you have to pay?
2021-08-24T15:33:43 < jadew> I don't know, I never ran any simulations, I only do 3D modeling
2021-08-24T15:33:48 < bitmask> im trying to see if i can determine the smallest stepper i can get based on its rated forces
2021-08-24T15:33:53 < bitmask> same here
2021-08-24T15:34:32 < mouseghost> theres also a differnt thing for 3d modelling hm
2021-08-24T15:34:32 < bitmask> guess i'll just have to buy some and see
2021-08-24T15:37:27 < ventyl> bitmask: you have to get credits, but it is possible, that you get some promo credits on account creation
2021-08-24T15:37:36 < bitmask> hmm ok
2021-08-24T15:37:52 < bitmask> well i gotta model this project up anyway so thats gonna take a while
2021-08-24T15:38:17 < ventyl> fusion has rather good import toolkit, so it is possible, that you'll be able to import pretty much anything
2021-08-24T15:38:22 < ventyl> without much trouble
2021-08-24T15:38:39 < bitmask> ive been using fusion for years
2021-08-24T15:39:01 < bitmask> not that im great at it but i understand it
2021-08-24T15:39:43 < bitmask> what do you guys use for project bases? wood? some kinda plastic sheet?
2021-08-24T15:40:02 < bitmask> its gonna be at least half a shoebox size
2021-08-24T15:41:45 < ventyl> i used to be fusion dev, so I know a bit about it's internals 
2021-08-24T15:42:42 < bitmask> neat
2021-08-24T15:47:25 < ventyl> it actually looks extermely similar to freecad
2021-08-24T16:11:30 < Steffanx> Freecad. Meh
2021-08-24T16:11:39 < bitmask> meh indeed
2021-08-24T16:12:57 < mouseghost> theres also openscad
2021-08-24T16:13:02 < mouseghost> and solvespace
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2021-08-24T16:17:21 < jadew> ventyl, you no longer work for autodesk or you switched projects?
2021-08-24T16:18:08 < ventyl> jadew: I left autodesk* almost 4 years ago
2021-08-24T16:18:20 < jadew> why?
2021-08-24T16:18:24 < ventyl> it was boring
2021-08-24T16:18:45 < jadew> got hired somewhere else or started your own thing?
2021-08-24T16:19:09 < ventyl> i switched industries completely and got hired by automotive tier1
2021-08-24T16:19:24 < ventyl> served three years long sentence there and then started my own thing
2021-08-24T16:20:39 < jadew> I heard more stories like these (mine is similar, except I skipped the second job)
2021-08-24T16:20:51 < jadew> I wonder if that's the natural progression of a programmer
2021-08-24T16:21:29 < mouseghost> do you make enough on your own thing?
2021-08-24T16:21:31 < mouseghost> how is it?
2021-08-24T16:21:32 < mouseghost> was it hard?
2021-08-24T16:21:56 < ventyl> jadew: probably it is, at least for that portion, which thrives for personal growth
2021-08-24T16:22:18 < mouseghost> are you freelancing, doing outsourcing, or have your own products?
2021-08-24T16:22:31 < ventyl> mouseghost: as this is my first year, I am barely doing minimal wage on average. but that's mostly due to my incompetency in securing contracts :)
2021-08-24T16:23:00 < ventyl> it's a mix of all three
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2021-08-24T16:25:21 < jadew> ventyl, sounds a lot like my problem when it comes to consulting
2021-08-24T16:26:14 < ventyl> so far the biggest problem is that "we need someone ASAP" usually translates to two-month-long period of waiting for client to come back with <something>
2021-08-24T16:26:56 < ventyl> long delays, but still better than those in automotive
2021-08-24T16:27:32 < bitmask> those bastards lied, i bought these "expensive" v groove bearings and the picture doesn't show an indentation groove where the V meets but it does
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2021-08-24T16:28:47 < Steffanx> Poor bitmask
2021-08-24T16:28:52 < bitmask> i know, the horrors
2021-08-24T16:29:12 < ventyl> bitmask: wasn't there any cross-section drawing of bearing?
2021-08-24T16:29:20 < jadew> ventyl, you're doing freelance programming jobs now?
2021-08-24T16:29:26 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NLK1GM3
2021-08-24T16:29:28 < bitmask> doesnt show the groove
2021-08-24T16:30:05 < bitmask> this one does show it for reference: https://www.amazon.com/Letool-LV202-40-Groove-Pulley-Bearing/dp/B07ZH2C219
2021-08-24T16:30:16 < ventyl> jadew: depends on where exactly lies the border between freelance programming and outsourcing. but mostly yes
2021-08-24T16:30:45 < bitmask> think i can fill the groove with something? Im worried its gonna scratch the enamel off magnet wire
2021-08-24T16:30:49 < jadew> ventyl, sounds like what I'm doing
2021-08-24T16:31:02 < jadew> I'm having trouble find clients as well
2021-08-24T16:33:10 < ventyl> bitmask: you mean the groove at outer face? wouldn't it be possible to put something like papier "insulation" in between bearing and wiring for mounting purposes?
2021-08-24T16:33:37 < bitmask> no, the center of the bearing, the bottom of the V
2021-08-24T16:33:55 < bitmask> its not just a V shape, it has this small square cutout
2021-08-24T16:34:07 < ventyl> jadew: the problem is that in fact, in C/C++ world, freelance is effectively non-existent. many projects simply require so much involvement, that freelancer is useless
2021-08-24T16:34:37 < jadew> ventyl, all serious programming is like that
2021-08-24T16:34:49 < ventyl> true
2021-08-24T16:35:14 < jadew> the problem I'm facing is that most people expect fiverr level pricing for proper programming
2021-08-24T16:35:30 < jadew> that's because they're either just starting up or don't know what they're doing
2021-08-24T16:35:38 < ventyl> fiverr?
2021-08-24T16:36:00 < jadew> the challenge is finding those companies that are willing to pay what the job is worth
2021-08-24T16:36:04 < ventyl> IDK if that's typo or a word I don't know yet :)
2021-08-24T16:36:24 < jpa-> fiverr.com, the place where you go to get proper programming jobs
2021-08-24T16:36:28 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/QKtmJQa.png
2021-08-24T16:36:29 < jadew> fiver is a platform for cheap labor (for small jigs)
2021-08-24T16:36:40 < ventyl> ah
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2021-08-24T16:37:18 < ventyl> I absolutely don't have clue what my work is really worth of
2021-08-24T16:37:42 < ventyl> and on top of this, if I want to take local customer, I have to lower the price to actually get the job
2021-08-24T16:37:45 < jadew> neither the employers - and that's the problem
2021-08-24T16:38:00 < jpa-> what it is worth depends on a lot of things, like the project and what client wants you to do; so the price is random
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2021-08-24T16:38:16 < jadew> jpa-, well, it's about one's time
2021-08-24T16:38:19 < jpa-> one way is just to pick a price and have something else to do when you don't have projects
2021-08-24T16:38:24 < jadew> the project might be doable for less
2021-08-24T16:38:39 < jpa-> like, biting your nails and looking at decreasing account balance
2021-08-24T16:38:40 < jadew> but if you want to work with a particular person, that person could command a higher price doing something else
2021-08-24T16:38:44 < jadew> so you have to pay the premium
2021-08-24T16:39:00 < ventyl> I usually feed random number generator with factors of how much disgusting the project is and/or how much interesting it is for me
2021-08-24T16:39:36 < jadew> jpa-, you can do other stuff that are more valuable in the time when you're not getting projects at the price you set
2021-08-24T16:40:53 < ventyl> jadew: one factor which kind of calms me down is, that very often requirements of clients are quite specific and almost always rule out like 99% of people I know. so I know that if they don't accept the price now, they'll have to accept it later or give up on their goals
2021-08-24T16:42:04 < ventyl> like automotive right now, they'd like to employ hundreds of skilled embedded software developers, who are also extremely fluent in C++17 and ideally have hands-on experience with something exotic, like Infineon's automotive-exclusive MCUs/SoCs
2021-08-24T16:42:10 < jpa-> the chip shortage is starting to show up though, hard to get parts even for prototypes
2021-08-24T16:45:48 < jadew> jpa-, you finally have a reason to try some of those off-brand MCUs from china that are 5c a piece
2021-08-24T16:46:59 < Steffanx> My have a talk with my q y x, jpa- 
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2021-08-24T16:47:02 < Steffanx> Mr*
2021-08-24T16:47:08 < Laurenceb> that my name
2021-08-24T16:47:16 < jpa-> no, it was not your name
2021-08-24T16:47:24 < Laurenceb> >reports of unmarried women cowering in their homes in some parts of the country, under threat of being forcibly married to militants.
2021-08-24T16:47:27 < Steffanx> Maybe. Damnit. Im having issues 
2021-08-24T16:47:33 < Laurenceb> Incels need to join the Taliban
2021-08-24T16:47:48 < jpa-> i thought incels *were* the taliban?
2021-08-24T16:47:52 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-08-24T16:47:54 < Steffanx> So what you need this time jpa- ?
2021-08-24T16:47:58 < Laurenceb> literal beta uprising
2021-08-24T16:48:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: SI5351
2021-08-24T16:48:15 < Steffanx> Maybe some ##stm32 has a spare component for you
2021-08-24T16:48:21 < jpa-> but that won't help
2021-08-24T16:48:38 < jpa-> i need to have them enough in stock that client is convinced that they are available enough
2021-08-24T16:48:52 < jpa-> (enough in stock at mouser or whatever)
2021-08-24T16:49:21 < jpa-> otherwise i could just buy a devboard and desolder
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2021-08-24T16:50:22 < Steffanx> Lol expected: 18-3-2022
2021-08-24T16:50:49 < Steffanx> But youre last in line, so 8-11-2020 
2021-08-24T17:00:32 < mouseghost> embrace communism
2021-08-24T17:00:53 < jadew> speaking of shortages, mouser just notified me of a shipment for something I ordered back in March
2021-08-24T17:01:20 < jadew> it was a surprise, because their original estimate was much later this year
2021-08-24T17:01:49 < ventyl> I assume that estimates were based on worst case scenarios of various kinds
2021-08-24T17:02:03 < ventyl> I find it impossible that some parts won't be available for more than 18 months
2021-08-24T17:02:12 < jadew> possibly
2021-08-24T17:02:31 < jadew> thing is, I already found a cheaper solution
2021-08-24T17:02:49 < jadew> (and implemented that in my design)
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2021-08-24T17:03:03 < ventyl> that's one factor which makes chip shortage an uncomfortable event even for chipmakers
2021-08-24T17:03:26 < ventyl> people find out that they don't need the best, newest, shiniest and rather expensive chip, but can live with something cheaper and more simple
2021-08-24T17:03:56 < ventyl> eventually, that those chinesium clones aren't that bad and are available
2021-08-24T17:06:18 < jadew> well, what I'm using are not chinisium clones tho, they're just slightly less expensive components
2021-08-24T17:06:43 < mouseghost> meow
2021-08-24T17:06:53 < jadew> the problem is that I invested a lot of time into testing them and figuring out a way of getting the results I wanted out of them, and I'm unlikely to repeat that for the same product
2021-08-24T17:06:59 < jadew> maybe when I'll need better performance.
2021-08-24T17:08:25 < Steffanx> Poor mouseghost needs attention?
2021-08-24T17:08:33 < mouseghost> Steffanx, yes! how did you know!
2021-08-24T17:08:51 < Steffanx> I have a cat
2021-08-24T17:08:58  * mouseghost plays with the cat
2021-08-24T17:09:12 < mouseghost> ive seen some fat cats that, when flopped, looked like turtles lmao
2021-08-24T17:09:29 < mouseghost> they were almost like "aaaa help me up help me up"
2021-08-24T17:09:35 < ventyl> if you flip my cat, it looks like a cactus
2021-08-24T17:09:59 < mouseghost> why cactus
2021-08-24T17:10:25 < ventyl> flipping him over triggers play mode, which means you'll end up scratches as if you were hugging a cactus
2021-08-24T17:10:38 < ventyl> scratched*
2021-08-24T17:10:43 < mouseghost> ah!
2021-08-24T17:13:18 < mouseghost> is it hard to land a programming job without having any notable experience in some firm? at most freelance work?
2021-08-24T17:14:26 < ventyl> what do you mean by notable experience?
2021-08-24T17:15:15 < ventyl> I have experience in several 10k+ employee companies and barely anyone knew them. So unless you have an experience in that given industry or in Fortune500 company, it is not of much relevance IMHO
2021-08-24T17:15:39 < mouseghost> ventyl, idk like on the cv, that you worked a year at a specific company
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2021-08-24T17:16:05 < mouseghost> not only that you did some projects like this like that, "see this see that"
2021-08-24T17:16:23 < ventyl> it still applies, I have never experienced a reaction like "OMG OMG OMG you were working at autodesk, fusion is my most favourite CAD tool!"
2021-08-24T17:17:58 < mouseghost> nah more like "uhh sorry we cant offer you this position because you dont have a visible experience"
2021-08-24T17:18:21 < ventyl> this happens sometimes
2021-08-24T17:18:32 < karlp> fucking telegram is popping focus whenever a chat arrives.
2021-08-24T17:18:45 < ventyl> IMO mostly as a net effect of severe brain damage of individual, who puts candidate requirements together
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2021-08-24T17:18:56 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-24T17:19:52 < mouseghost> i just dont want to be excluded at the beginning due to the fact that ive never really worked :_: especially that its something id like to do when studying, ideally... meh, too many dreams..
2021-08-24T17:19:52 < ventyl> like one automotive company wanted all their candidates have hands on experience with rather specific line of SoCs for ADAS implementation
2021-08-24T17:20:53 < ventyl> which effectively constrained them to try to steal devs from competition and that implies higher salaries
2021-08-24T17:21:18 < mouseghost> uhu
2021-08-24T17:21:21 < mouseghost> weird requirement
2021-08-24T17:22:09 < ventyl> company i've been working at once considered PhD a requirement for all new hires
2021-08-24T17:23:13 < ventyl> originator of this idea probably got a lecture on how increasing candidate requirements won't help to fix the problem of hiring 150+ more devs of which only like 20 were hired due to shortage of skilled people on job market
2021-08-24T17:25:54 < ventyl> mouseghost: well, there are still jobs where you can work without any prior job experience. and once you gain some, market opens quite a lot
2021-08-24T17:26:07 < mouseghost>  yeah i figure..
2021-08-24T17:26:07 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-24T17:28:55 < ventyl> I personally started working at companies which (ab)used student work. It was mutually beneficial. They didn't have almost any candidate expectations and on the other hand provided quite a lot of freedom for students.
2021-08-24T17:29:13 < ventyl> so I've already had some experience in my CV after I finished school
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2021-08-24T17:33:54 < mouseghost> i see
2021-08-24T17:33:59 < mouseghost> what kind of school, though?
2021-08-24T17:34:01 < mawk> at my company the students get the coolest projects
2021-08-24T17:34:05 < mawk> it's super annoying
2021-08-24T17:34:13 < mouseghost> the problem i have rn is that i dont really have time for full time
2021-08-24T17:34:23 < mawk> it doesn't have to be full time
2021-08-24T17:34:51 < ventyl> mouseghost: local unimportant university, which doesn't even issue recognizable degrees :)
2021-08-24T17:34:53 < mouseghost> i hope it wont x-x
2021-08-24T17:34:58 < mouseghost> oh
2021-08-24T17:35:16 < mouseghost> ive got a fulltime c++ telco offer
2021-08-24T17:35:22 < ventyl> like my degree is Ing. which is something like MSc, but nobody really knows what does it stand for
2021-08-24T17:35:25 < mouseghost> maybe for erricson O:::? cause scandinavian
2021-08-24T17:35:39 < Steffanx> Weren't you a high school guy mouseghost ?
2021-08-24T17:35:39 < mouseghost> isnt ing. like bsc?
2021-08-24T17:35:43 < mouseghost> i am, Steffanx
2021-08-24T17:35:48 < Steffanx> Like .. 17/18 yo?
2021-08-24T17:35:51 < mouseghost> yep
2021-08-24T17:35:52 < mouseghost> exactly
2021-08-24T17:35:53 < mouseghost> why
2021-08-24T17:36:00 < Steffanx> Just wondering 
2021-08-24T17:36:34 < ventyl> no, I got BSc, then after two more years I got Ing, if I did three additional years, I'd get PhD
2021-08-24T17:36:37 < mawk> do you have big baby cheeks mouseghost 
2021-08-24T17:36:42 < ventyl> so it is presumably something like MSc
2021-08-24T17:36:51 < mawk> mine is something like this as well ventyl 
2021-08-24T17:36:57 < mawk> "engineer degree"
2021-08-24T17:37:01 < Steffanx> You shouldn't ask me why, most of my questions come from curiousity. So there is not really a "why?"
2021-08-24T17:37:24 < ventyl> interestingly, in germany, you'll get Ing. title if you finish any technical high school
2021-08-24T17:37:32 < ventyl> so there's a lot of confusion :)
2021-08-24T17:37:42 < ventyl> as their equivalent of MSc is Dipl. Ing.
2021-08-24T17:38:52 < ventyl> mouseghost: and it doesn't have to be fulltime job. there are two things nobody will bother about: if your job was full or part-time and what was actual grade you finished your school with
2021-08-24T17:39:04 < ventyl> it is boolean: job / no job. degree / no degree
2021-08-24T17:39:15 < ventyl> even degree is not that much important
2021-08-24T17:39:29 < ventyl> and loses almost all of it's importance after about 10 years
2021-08-24T17:40:02 < englishman> here Ing. is a protected title where you need 1) bachelor's degree in engineering 2) 2 years apprenticeship 3) pass some exams and be a current member of the engineering order
2021-08-24T17:40:19 < karlp> fuck protected titles
2021-08-24T17:40:20 < englishman> whereas in USA there is no protection at all so you can be a Sanitation Engineer (cleaning toilets)
2021-08-24T17:40:26 < karlp> fucking baker is a protected title here.
2021-08-24T17:41:28 < ventyl> englishman: it is somewhat protected here too. You can't claim you are Ing. without having diploma. IIRC it is some kind of criminal offense
2021-08-24T17:41:42 < englishman> i should have my Ing sometime early next year
2021-08-24T17:41:52 < englishman> it does absolutely nothing, but the company is paying for it
2021-08-24T17:42:02 < ventyl> but there is no prerequisite, that you need to have it in order to perform certain jobs
2021-08-24T17:42:07 < karlp> I could pay to have membership and be allowed to call myself, but fuck that right off.
2021-08-24T17:42:16 < englishman> there is here, but just for automotive/aviation/civil
2021-08-24T17:42:16 < ventyl> karlp: a baker?
2021-08-24T17:42:32 < karlp> iceland has job title protection for (amongst other thigns) bakers.
2021-08-24T17:43:23 < mouseghost> ventyl, hmmm
2021-08-24T17:43:25 < karlp> I personally could go thruogh the fee paying process and sending in my work experience and degree to IEaust and have the "correct" qualifications to call my self an engineer here in iceland
2021-08-24T17:43:26 < ventyl> englishman: there are some jobs, such as electricians, civil engineers and such, which usually require state exam according to some compliance act
2021-08-24T17:43:35 < karlp> but I just do it anyway, and fuck anyone who tries to say otherwise.
2021-08-24T17:43:43 < Steffanx> Professor isnt a protected title either here (is it anywhere?) So call my Professor Steffanx please.
2021-08-24T17:43:50 < Steffanx> Me*
2021-08-24T17:44:10 < mouseghost> here you get inż. if you have a bsc from an engineering degree/uni.
2021-08-24T17:44:14 < ventyl> Steffanx: here it is. in schrodinger's cat sense
2021-08-24T17:44:29 < mouseghost> Steffanx, its protected here as well, kinda
2021-08-24T17:44:35 < mouseghost> president gives it
2021-08-24T17:44:50 < mouseghost> but an university might decide that someone is a professor on that university
2021-08-24T17:44:53 < ventyl> there are professors, who usually are high school teachers. and there are professors, who are people who did some additional science / education work on top of their PhD / whatever degree they already have
2021-08-24T17:45:13 < mouseghost> oh we call the former "mr" or "mrs" lmao
2021-08-24T17:45:32 < mouseghost> tho we have some teachers who have phds ;o
2021-08-24T17:45:56 < ventyl> our school system is screwed, as post-communist country we have people with weird degrees, such as CSc. still alive
2021-08-24T17:46:11 < mouseghost> thats CSc.
2021-08-24T17:46:13 < mouseghost> ventyl, what country you
2021-08-24T17:46:28 < ventyl> CSc. stands for Candidate of Science
2021-08-24T17:46:39 < mouseghost> mawk, it depends 
2021-08-24T17:46:40 < ventyl> and is *above* MSc
2021-08-24T17:46:46 < mouseghost> weird
2021-08-24T17:46:50 < ventyl> mouseghost: check my ident, slovakia
2021-08-24T17:46:56 < mouseghost> oh
2021-08-24T17:47:00 < mouseghost> really
2021-08-24T17:47:16 < Steffanx> BSc of science is such great title.
2021-08-24T17:47:18 < mouseghost> hello from the other side
2021-08-24T17:47:28 < ventyl> other side of what?
2021-08-24T17:47:33 < mouseghost> ventyl, border
2021-08-24T17:47:49 < ventyl> well, we have 5 of them :)
2021-08-24T17:47:55 < Steffanx> .pl
2021-08-24T17:47:59 < mouseghost> the north one with mountains
2021-08-24T17:48:03 < ventyl> so, czesc
2021-08-24T17:48:08 < mouseghost> cześć :)
2021-08-24T17:48:12 < mouseghost> ahoj
2021-08-24T17:48:24 < ventyl> or, as I've learned, more appropriately, czesc kurwa
2021-08-24T17:48:32 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-08-24T17:48:47 < mouseghost> kurwa mordo, co tam u ciebie?
2021-08-24T17:48:47 < Steffanx> What? Isnt mouseghost supposed to be polish.
2021-08-24T17:48:56 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i am, why?
2021-08-24T17:49:05 < Steffanx> You confirmed a few days ago
2021-08-24T17:49:49 < mouseghost> but i am polish
2021-08-24T17:49:55 < mouseghost> whats weirding you out?
2021-08-24T17:50:18 < Steffanx> Ooh  cresc is polish. Not czech is some language 
2021-08-24T17:50:33 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-08-24T17:50:52 < Steffanx> Cześć
2021-08-24T17:51:09 < mouseghost> Cześć
2021-08-24T17:51:20 < mouseghost> ahoj is czech i think
2021-08-24T17:51:23 < mouseghost> idk what its in slovak ventyl
2021-08-24T17:51:39 < mouseghost> also, it seems
2021-08-24T17:51:42 < ventyl> same here
2021-08-24T17:52:03 < mouseghost> i was actually near the border recently
2021-08-24T17:52:26 < ventyl> in Tatras?
2021-08-24T17:52:43 < mouseghost> Beskids
2021-08-24T17:53:37 < mouseghost> idk dont ask me i dont know anything
2021-08-24T17:54:14 < mouseghost> in the first polish "invasion" east from the tri-border PL-CZ-SK
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2021-08-24T17:55:03 < ventyl> that's just a bit more western than Tatras
2021-08-24T17:55:36 < mouseghost> ye
2021-08-24T17:56:27 < Steffanx> So hows transmitting waves going mr mouseghost ?
2021-08-24T17:56:38 < bitmask> not very impressive but here are my first bismuth crystals: https://i.imgur.com/uPGMAb4.png
2021-08-24T17:57:06 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i have a break from that
2021-08-24T17:57:14 < mouseghost> i need to think of a nice way of wording it so it makes sense
2021-08-24T17:57:18 < mouseghost> im writing an essay alongside, so
2021-08-24T17:57:23 < ventyl> bitmask: lovely!
2021-08-24T17:57:39 < ventyl> looks a bit like molten terminator
2021-08-24T17:57:51 < bitmask> i was trying the geode method which failed but i was able to pick these off before the fail
2021-08-24T17:58:30 < mouseghost> bitmask, looks nice!
2021-08-24T17:58:36 < bitmask> thanks
2021-08-24T17:58:38 < mouseghost> so did you find it or did you make it?
2021-08-24T17:58:51 < mouseghost> i suppose the latter?
2021-08-24T17:58:52 < bitmask> bought bismuth metal online and made the crystals
2021-08-24T17:58:56 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-24T17:58:58 < mouseghost> nice!!
2021-08-24T17:59:08 < bitmask> was just my first attempt so im sure i'll get better
2021-08-24T17:59:12 < mouseghost> so you needed to heat it?
2021-08-24T17:59:15 < bitmask> yea
2021-08-24T17:59:23 < mouseghost> nice
2021-08-24T17:59:26 < bitmask> just used a hot plate with a butane torch to speed things along
2021-08-24T17:59:36 < mouseghost> im thinking of making crystals out of chemicals. i have ferricyanide or something
2021-08-24T18:00:06 < bitmask> i wanted to make a nice big copper sulphate/sulfate crystal but it takes too long :P
2021-08-24T18:00:27 < mouseghost> just leave it ;p
2021-08-24T18:00:36 < mouseghost> need to be patient
2021-08-24T18:00:44 < bitmask> yea you gotta keep an eye on it and refilter the water fairly frequently and stuff
2021-08-24T18:01:00 < bitmask> filter the "water" hah
2021-08-24T18:01:07 < bitmask> well ig uess it mostly is
2021-08-24T18:01:53 < bitmask> gonna take a break to try some airbrushing
2021-08-24T18:01:57 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-24T18:04:48 < Steffanx> Will you show us your paintbrush skills as well bitmask ?
2021-08-24T18:04:57 < Steffanx> Airbrush*
2021-08-24T18:06:28 < Steffanx> Can you recommend me some drug to be more focused, mawk? I think I need some
2021-08-24T18:10:25 < mawk> drink more coffeeee
2021-08-24T18:10:42 < ventyl> caffeine is not effective
2021-08-24T18:10:52 < mouseghost> amphetamine?
2021-08-24T18:10:59 < mouseghost> dont adhd meds have it?
2021-08-24T18:11:03 < ventyl> you need to increase dose fairly quickly and you'll get immune eventually
2021-08-24T18:11:19 < bitmask> Steffanx no i have no skills
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2021-08-24T18:29:11 < mawk> omg there's a furry in the channel
2021-08-24T18:30:29  * specing calls animal control
2021-08-24T18:30:40 < ventyl> jadew: btw, how long do you do your consulting bussiness?
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2021-08-24T18:51:33 < bitmask> i thought i broke my expensive airbrush after only 1 use
2021-08-24T18:51:39 < bitmask> butttt i got it workin
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2021-08-24T19:02:09 < Steffanx> I need something stronger mawk. See all my typos (and partially incorrect auto correct)
2021-08-24T19:02:34 < mawk> I tried it so you don't have to
2021-08-24T19:02:45 < mawk> I ended up a month in psychiatric hospital
2021-08-24T19:02:49 < mawk> after taking stimulants
2021-08-24T19:02:55 < mawk> now I stick to caffeine
2021-08-24T19:03:04 < Steffanx> Does fentanyl work?
2021-08-24T19:03:15 < BrainDamage> switch to carfentanyl
2021-08-24T19:03:40 < specing> mawk: wut
2021-08-24T19:03:48 < specing> which stimulants
2021-08-24T19:03:51 < mawk> no Steffanx unless you consider "working" to have a weird meaning
2021-08-24T19:03:55 < mawk> MDPV specing 
2021-08-24T19:04:10 < Steffanx> Or maybe have some ritalin left?
2021-08-24T19:05:24 < Steffanx> specing: a better question would be: what not
2021-08-24T19:05:55 < mawk> I don't take ritalin it makes me insomniac
2021-08-24T19:06:00 < mawk> and anorexic
2021-08-24T19:06:08 < mawk> also sweaty I hate sweating
2021-08-24T19:06:53 < karlp> man, cubemx update fails because IO error No appropriate protocol (protocol is disabled or cipher suites are inappropriate)
2021-08-24T19:07:05 < karlp> which sounds like realyl dumb java and legacy tls shit at st's end. :|
2021-08-24T19:11:30 < jadew> ventyl, about 3 years
2021-08-24T19:11:42 < jadew> maybe 4?
2021-08-24T19:11:58 < jadew> I don't really remember, it was supposed to be something temporary :P
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2021-08-24T19:21:50 < Steffanx> But luckily jadew now has time enough to work on this picologger clone with uber GUI
2021-08-24T19:22:02 < karlp> ;)
2021-08-24T19:22:19 < jadew> I don't... I need to give up on some of the projects
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2021-08-24T19:22:33 < jadew> or wrap them up
2021-08-24T19:22:39 < Steffanx> ( I will not forget, jadew 😜)
2021-08-24T19:22:52 < jadew> yeah, I figured that by now :P
2021-08-24T19:24:30 < karlp> wtf, why does cubeide need to ship a custom version of make?!
2021-08-24T19:25:10 < jadew> version dependency?
2021-08-24T19:27:39 < karlp> they're shipping a custom version, not just a pinned upstream version.
2021-08-24T19:28:04 < jadew> maybe they fixed a bug
2021-08-24T19:28:53 < jadew> couldn't be arsed to bother with pull requests and the hassle around that
2021-08-24T19:29:31 < Steffanx> Yeah sure
2021-08-24T19:29:54 < jadew> I've done that in the past with some libraries
2021-08-24T19:29:59 < jadew> it's never a good idea
2021-08-24T19:30:30 < jadew> you eventually end up with an out of date library or you have to keep porting your changes to the new version
2021-08-24T19:32:00 < jpa-> karlp: at least it is not cygwin make that is run with wine, like altera quartus used to do :)
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2021-08-24T19:39:14 < ventyl> `gnu make doesn't really have any dependencies, just a C compiler
2021-08-24T19:40:03 < mawk> make itself doesn't even need a compiler
2021-08-24T19:40:05 < mawk> it's standalone
2021-08-24T19:40:37 < jpa-> but "version dependency" means "depending on a particular version of make"
2021-08-24T19:40:39 < ventyl> I mean build time dependency
2021-08-24T19:41:06 < jpa-> while makefiles are a lot more backwards- and forwards compatible than e.g. sconscripts
2021-08-24T19:41:32 < ventyl> I am aware only of one incompatible change in makefiles in last... 10 years?
2021-08-24T19:41:32 < mawk> cygwin make run with wine
2021-08-24T19:41:35 < mawk> seriously?
2021-08-24T19:51:35 < bitmask> musou black is awesome
2021-08-24T19:52:33 < mawk> paint?
2021-08-24T19:52:54 < Steffanx> Must be
2021-08-24T19:53:05 < Steffanx> Show us your non-skills bitmask 
2021-08-24T19:55:31 < bitmask> when im done playing
2021-08-24T19:56:34 < Steffanx> So, never.
2021-08-24T19:57:19 < mawk> what are you playing bitmask 
2021-08-24T20:00:09 < ventyl> jadew: ok, so I can expect that it will suck for quite a few years
2021-08-24T20:00:40 < jadew> ventyl, don't know, I'm not great at networking, maybe you are
2021-08-24T20:01:48 < jadew> the reason I'm still doing consulting work is because my electronics stuff hasn't really taken off
2021-08-24T20:02:35 < ventyl> I am not EE in first place, I am SW guy, just as a matter of fact I can pursue MCUs to do interesting stuff
2021-08-24T20:03:45 < jadew> I'm not an EE either (I dropped out)
2021-08-24T20:03:58 < bitmask> mawk: playing with my airbrush
2021-08-24T20:04:06 < mawk> a
2021-08-24T20:04:13 < mawk> you wear a mask when you use it?
2021-08-24T20:04:56 < ventyl> I don't have any idea on what HW could be required by people out there, so I am not going to design any
2021-08-24T20:05:18 < ventyl> even the SW I put together seems to be way to ahead and noone wants to use it
2021-08-24T20:05:24 < ventyl> too*
2021-08-24T20:05:51 < mawk> what's wrong with being salaried
2021-08-24T20:06:05 < jadew> mawk, nothing, as long as you're earning a shit ton
2021-08-24T20:06:28 < jadew> enough to make up for the compound effect you get from building your own business
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2021-08-24T20:06:43 < mawk> who wants their own business
2021-08-24T20:06:48 < mawk> it sounds too annoying
2021-08-24T20:06:54 < ventyl> my main reason for quitting job was that there were long periods of me being idle, but having to be available for duty on call.
2021-08-24T20:06:59 < ventyl> that was just a waste of time for me
2021-08-24T20:07:02 < mawk> and the nanny state has nothing to offer for bosses
2021-08-24T20:07:08 < jadew> it is, but presumably that's the alternative to being salaried
2021-08-24T20:07:09 < ventyl> now when there's nothing to do, I can freely do whatever I want
2021-08-24T20:07:26 < mawk> you just needed a better job
2021-08-24T20:08:05 < ventyl> well, it turns out that my choice of jobs tends to suck and when I change, the change is to worse. wonder how decision to change from job to bussiness fits into this schema
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2021-08-24T20:08:13 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-58315826
2021-08-24T20:08:38 < Laurenceb> they need to look on irc
2021-08-24T20:09:08 < jadew> did you sign up?
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2021-08-24T20:19:17 < bitmask> mawk yea i wear a mask
2021-08-24T20:19:32 < bitmask> damn, this primer doesnt fill cracks well so I laid it on real thick, gonna take forever to dry
2021-08-24T20:19:40 < bitmask> guess i'll move on to something else for a while
2021-08-24T20:20:35 < bitmask> and i think i need to learn to clean the airbrush better between colors because i went through tons of cleaner today
2021-08-24T20:21:06 < bitmask> thats the most annoying part, changing colors
2021-08-24T20:21:35 < mawk> what solvent you use for cleaning?
2021-08-24T20:22:20 < bitmask> using acetone might help but im just using this medea airbrush cleaner, its just soapy water i think
2021-08-24T20:23:09 < bitmask> i have a 500ml bottle but i just went through like 50ml today
2021-08-24T20:24:02 < karlp> definitely remember that being tedious when I was a teenager airbrushing models 
2021-08-24T20:28:54 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/BLVokZa.png
2021-08-24T20:30:15 < ventyl> well, it turns out that my choice of jobs tends to suck and when I change, the change is to worse. wonder how decision to change from job to bussiness fits into this schema
2021-08-24T20:30:23 < ventyl> nah, bad bad touchpad
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2021-08-24T21:13:16 < zyp> my past few jobs have been increasingly interesting
2021-08-24T21:18:54 < PaulFertser> Please do share
2021-08-24T21:24:10 < zyp> don't wanna go into detail, just making a counterpoint to ventyl changing to worse jobs
2021-08-24T21:28:15 < qyx> my biggest positive job change is going to be when I start grazing sheep
2021-08-24T21:29:00 < qyx> and chicken and ducks like englishman 
2021-08-24T21:29:25 < englishman> surely it will be the sheep that do the grazing
2021-08-24T21:30:22 < qyx> wut
2021-08-24T21:31:39 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-08-24T21:36:29 < englishman> oh, til the usage of grazing as a transitive verb
2021-08-24T21:36:43 < englishman> He grazed his livestock in the pastures.
2021-08-24T21:36:44 < Steffanx> I heard mailman is a dreamjob for some
2021-08-24T21:36:59 < sauce> no hes going to practice the art of almost hitting animals
2021-08-24T21:37:32 < englishman> woosh
2021-08-24T21:37:54 < Steffanx> Will you put bluetooth sensors in your sheep, qyx?
2021-08-24T21:38:31 < Steffanx> We actually did that at work -_- 
2021-08-24T21:38:50 < englishman> in the sheep
2021-08-24T21:38:50 < Steffanx> Ok not actually. It was meant for cows, but same thing 
2021-08-24T21:38:50 < englishman> É
2021-08-24T21:38:53 < englishman> ?
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2021-08-24T21:41:03 < englishman> https://i.ibb.co/x51LmX7/image.png
2021-08-24T21:41:17 < sauce> the least we can do is uplift them
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2021-08-24T21:45:29 < BrainDamage> 🎴
2021-08-24T21:45:32 < BrainDamage> ups
2021-08-24T21:45:35 < BrainDamage> ignore that
2021-08-24T21:49:39 < Steffanx> 🪤
2021-08-24T22:00:33 < qyx> Steffanx: no, radio backscattering sensors
2021-08-24T22:01:07 < qyx> with ears acting as a dipole
2021-08-24T22:01:47 < qyx> englishman: lol
2021-08-24T22:04:54 < Steffanx> Oh real innovation 
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2021-08-24T22:09:36 < kakium69> ventyl: can I remove front axle oil seals without braking them+
2021-08-24T22:10:48 < ventyl> kakium69: front axle oil seals?
2021-08-24T22:10:54 < ventyl> you mean front fork oil seals?
2021-08-24T22:11:01 < kakium69> no
2021-08-24T22:11:11 < kakium69> front wheel seals
2021-08-24T22:11:29 < ventyl> wuz
2021-08-24T22:11:38 < ventyl> what is there to be sealed?
2021-08-24T22:11:54 < ventyl> bearing seals?
2021-08-24T22:12:03 < kakium69> bearings
2021-08-24T22:12:15 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-24T22:12:16 < ventyl> simply throw new bearings in
2021-08-24T22:12:25 < kakium69> not have
2021-08-24T22:12:30 < ventyl> go buy
2021-08-24T22:12:38 < kakium69> no
2021-08-24T22:12:42 < ventyl> NTT KOYO 6xx0 C3
2021-08-24T22:12:43 < kakium69> nonono
2021-08-24T22:13:20 < kakium69> bearings are fine
2021-08-24T22:13:23 < ventyl> but, that rubber seal is removable
2021-08-24T22:13:34 < ventyl> without damage
2021-08-24T22:13:35 < kakium69> seals are very dirty
2021-08-24T22:14:05 < ventyl> it is possible to wash them and feed them with new grease
2021-08-24T22:14:29 < kakium69> is the whole hub filled with grease?
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2021-08-24T22:14:40 < kakium69> from right to left
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2021-08-24T22:21:20 < sauce> i think you have to disassemble the whole bearing for that process
2021-08-24T22:21:27 < sauce> do you have an arbor press or something?
2021-08-24T22:22:56 < kakium69> no
2021-08-24T22:23:27 < kakium69> maybe I'll leave those seals and bearings alone
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 25 2021
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2021-08-25T00:59:27 < kakium69> evenings
2021-08-25T00:59:31 < kakium69> 69ers
2021-08-25T01:13:45 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UFp8RfskI3ciI1rYVnKTRZbPdJ-sZRig/view?usp=sharing fork 10year overhauled and calibers dipped in ultrasonic
2021-08-25T01:14:49 < kakium69> also learned that front and rear tyre have opposing pattern and front wheel is not symmetric
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2021-08-25T01:16:21 < kakium69> luckily caliber didn't have bolt right at line with fork when I pulled 72Nm to axle bolt
2021-08-25T01:16:29 < kakium69> *brake disk didn
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2021-08-25T03:11:19 < flyback> wtf happen to dongs
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2021-08-25T03:16:28 < sauce> too cool for irc
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2021-08-25T03:41:28 < aandrew> karlp: did you see I got it working?
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2021-08-25T03:42:08 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/92j61qi
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2021-08-25T05:17:29 < bitmask> printed some bobbins to try some e-magnets
2021-08-25T05:17:30 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/ldKozqI.png
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2021-08-25T05:33:26 < sauce> what is the permeability of pla
2021-08-25T05:35:16 < bitmask> 5000
2021-08-25T05:35:58 < bitmask> its petg anyway
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2021-08-25T12:50:22 < karlp> aandrew: sweer!  what did you use in the end?
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2021-08-25T14:01:29 < mouseghost> meow
2021-08-25T14:01:32 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i need attention
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2021-08-25T14:21:39 < Steffanx> Ok. Ask mawk 
2021-08-25T14:25:44 < mawk> yes mouseghost ?
2021-08-25T14:25:46 < mawk> Steffanx I just saw the psychiatrist and the doctor
2021-08-25T14:25:58 < mawk> the doctor could still not speak English so she did nothing except renew the prescription
2021-08-25T14:26:01 < mouseghost> mawk, what did the psychiatrist tell you?
2021-08-25T14:26:07 < mouseghost> also, isnt a psychiatrist a doctor?
2021-08-25T14:26:08 < mawk> and the psychiatrist legit spent the half hour talking about crypto
2021-08-25T14:26:16 < mawk> yes
2021-08-25T14:26:51 < mawk> the psych said "so I'm holding ethereum, cardano, safemoon, do you think safemoon will go up? if it does I can quit my job"
2021-08-25T14:27:01 < mawk> all of this because I said I work with computers
2021-08-25T14:27:45 < mouseghost> was that a psychiatrist or a psychologist
2021-08-25T14:28:12 < mawk> a psychiatrist
2021-08-25T14:28:15 < mawk> why
2021-08-25T14:28:20 < mouseghost> idk
2021-08-25T14:28:23 < mouseghost> i never had such talks
2021-08-25T14:28:24 < mawk> the doctor is a specialized addiction doctor
2021-08-25T14:28:30 < mawk> and the psychiatrist is just a psychiatrist
2021-08-25T14:28:32 < mouseghost> never departed from my topic with a psychiatrist
2021-08-25T14:28:48 < mawk> I talked about how to order drugs online with my old psychiatrist
2021-08-25T14:28:57 < mawk> because he had a medical student attending the session
2021-08-25T14:29:02 < mawk> so I wanted to scare the kid
2021-08-25T14:29:08 < mouseghost> one psychologist i went to told me how doctors commit suicide
2021-08-25T14:29:10 < Steffanx> Ohno, mouseghost are you alright, mouseghost 
2021-08-25T14:29:21 < mouseghost> but after 5 secs of research it has proven to be a dumb way
2021-08-25T14:29:27 < karlp> any pros have a opc-ua client they like using?
2021-08-25T14:29:27 < mawk> how was it?
2021-08-25T14:29:32 < mouseghost> Steffanx, yes kind of... not really, lonely
2021-08-25T14:29:52 < mouseghost> mawk, wdym? the suicide? he told me that they overdose insulin or something
2021-08-25T14:29:57 < mouseghost> but that sounds very dumb
2021-08-25T14:30:03 < Steffanx> Awh mouseghost 
2021-08-25T14:30:31 < mouseghost> so far i think a train is the most reliable option
2021-08-25T14:31:25 < mouseghost> mawk, how to order drugs online?
2021-08-25T14:32:54 < Steffanx> OPC-UA isnt something I used. Ever. 
2021-08-25T14:33:19 < Steffanx> I think you are most pro in this matter karlp :P
2021-08-25T14:33:40 < karlp> nah, I've never actually used it, just know a little bit about it, but wondering what it would take to add
2021-08-25T14:37:33 < ventyl> Steffanx: hah, that's the response my consultant gave me to my diploma thesis
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2021-08-25T14:54:04 < mawk> mouseghost: with monero and tor
2021-08-25T14:54:13 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-25T14:54:19 < mawk> buy your moneros on https://www.kraken.com/
2021-08-25T14:54:21 < mawk> or buy them from me
2021-08-25T14:54:52 < mawk> if it's not illegal drugs (for instance if you need viagra) you can buy them normally on internet with bitcoin
2021-08-25T14:57:01 < zyp> karlp, haven't used it, just heard bad stuff about it :p
2021-08-25T14:57:28 < karlp> yeah, that's been my expericens from each time I've glanced at it.
2021-08-25T14:57:33 < karlp> looks abotu as wordy and fun as snmp.
2021-08-25T14:58:27 < mawk> snmp is very fun yes
2021-08-25T14:58:36 < zyp> the modbus shit I work with talks to some stuff that apparently talks OPC-UA to other stuff and I was told I should be happy I only have to deal with modbus :p
2021-08-25T14:58:56 < zyp> not that I enjoy that very much, but still
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2021-08-25T15:06:32 < karlp> well, sample code works: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/txWoO.png that's always a plus when the docs compile and work
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2021-08-25T15:10:23 < aandrew> karlp: in the end I used your superior knowledge of imagemagick: convert -size 4208x3118 -depth 16 -endian MSB gray:frame.raw frame.png
2021-08-25T15:10:50 < karlp> that's a very different image size :)
2021-08-25T15:10:53 < aandrew> the RGB/gray importer in IM is *very* picky and will bomb if there are too many/too few bytes
2021-08-25T15:11:18 < aandrew> karlp: well yes, this is full res. I was using 1/4 res before but it looks like it bumps the horizontal resolution up a tad at 1/4 res
2021-08-25T15:11:19 < karlp> yeah, you can use XXxYY+offset_in_bytes if you like, but that's it
2021-08-25T15:11:56 < aandrew> I'd by far prefer if it just took the array of pixels and arranged it in the format you ask up to however many are in the file, leaving the rest blank, but whatever
2021-08-25T15:12:22 < aandrew> once I got the clocking scheme correct (on both imx258 and rpi) I was able to get full res out of only two lanes
2021-08-25T15:13:18 < karlp> sure, being able to say 5000x  or x3000 and having it consume what it can to match that dimension might be nice, 
2021-08-25T15:13:36 < karlp> it does that sort of thing in lots of other places, I'd say it's just never been implemented in the decoder, becasue it's prettttttty niche :)
2021-08-25T15:14:13 < aandrew> for sure, I know i'm not doing "normal" processing
2021-08-25T15:14:31 < karlp> like resize -size ">500x" will do a resize to 500 in x, preserve aspect ratio, and not enlarge.
2021-08-25T15:14:55 < aandrew> bleh, have to go into the office today
2021-08-25T15:14:59 < aandrew> this is bs
2021-08-25T15:15:11 < Steffanx> No you are sick today 
2021-08-25T15:15:23 < aandrew> heh
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2021-08-25T15:24:55 < mawk> why aandrew 
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2021-08-25T15:36:00 < englishman> mawk: lol @ a specialized addiction doctor with a gambling problem
2021-08-25T15:38:47 < mawk> lol
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2021-08-25T15:58:57 < jadew> zyp, do you still have your tesla stock?
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2021-08-25T16:01:50 < zyp> never owned any
2021-08-25T16:02:03 < jadew> oh, I thought you had some since it was super cheap
2021-08-25T16:02:12 < zyp> nope, not me
2021-08-25T16:02:20 < jadew> maybe it was bitcoin then
2021-08-25T16:02:47 < jadew> I see, I was wondering if you're still holding :)
2021-08-25T16:02:54 < zyp> I bought some bitcoin at $8 and sold it at $30
2021-08-25T16:03:07 < jadew> that's still a good return
2021-08-25T16:03:47 < jadew> did you guys see this? https://youtu.be/rmkFrv80b7Y?t=644
2021-08-25T16:04:15 < zyp> meh
2021-08-25T16:04:38 < jadew> he got so annoyed by that question lol
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2021-08-25T16:06:30 < jpa-> jadew: do you still have your tesla & bitcoin shorts?
2021-08-25T16:06:48 < jadew> never did, I shorted a different crypto and lost $300
2021-08-25T16:06:58 < jadew> decided not to short anything else after that
2021-08-25T16:07:02 < jpa-> heh
2021-08-25T16:07:24 < jpa-> i've been surprisingly lucky in my silly speculations
2021-08-25T16:07:40 < jadew> it obviously crashed a few weeks later, but it would have taken out my entire account if I kept the position
2021-08-25T16:08:04 < jadew> me too, but I think it's because the market is in a serious up-trend
2021-08-25T16:08:08 < jadew> so it's a bit difficult to lose
2021-08-25T16:08:30 < jadew> I did exit PFE before it bubbled tho :/
2021-08-25T16:09:54 < jpa-> in finland one can avoid capital gain taxes if stock sales in a calendar year are less than 1000 EUR; it puts a convenient limit to gambling :)
2021-08-25T16:10:24 < jadew> I'll have to look into the legislation here - I haven't done that yet
2021-08-25T16:10:25 < mouseghost> i wish i could do stock exchange :(
2021-08-25T16:10:38 < jadew> mouseghost, what's stopping you?
2021-08-25T16:10:42 < mouseghost> jadew, age
2021-08-25T16:10:51 < jadew> you're too young?
2021-08-25T16:10:53 < mouseghost> yep
2021-08-25T16:11:06 < jadew> ask you parents for an account and some money
2021-08-25T16:11:25 < zyp> jpa-, in norway you can open a «stock savings account» that you can use to buy and sell stocks, and you don't have to pay capital gain taxes before you actually withdraw gains from it
2021-08-25T16:11:54 < jpa-> we have that same here, but it is limited only to finnish stocks
2021-08-25T16:11:57 < jadew> I think it's similar here
2021-08-25T16:12:02 < mouseghost> jadew, X_X
2021-08-25T16:12:04 < mouseghost> im shy
2021-08-25T16:12:10 < jadew> with your parents? :)
2021-08-25T16:12:13 < mouseghost> yeah..
2021-08-25T16:12:15 < mouseghost> i do have a bank account and some money
2021-08-25T16:12:30 < jadew> don't risk it all tho
2021-08-25T16:12:34 < mouseghost> yeah i know
2021-08-25T16:12:44 < jadew> just a tiny tiny bit until you understand what's happening
2021-08-25T16:13:03 < mouseghost> i knooow
2021-08-25T16:13:10 < zyp> jpa-, I don't think it has that restriction here
2021-08-25T16:13:26 < jadew> I'll find out next year
2021-08-25T16:13:27 < mouseghost> so far ive only did something on bitcoin exchange, but thats too volatile for prolonged periods of time and day trading=loss
2021-08-25T16:13:41 < mouseghost> imo
2021-08-25T16:13:41 < mouseghost> idk
2021-08-25T16:13:47 < mouseghost> ive lost all my 8 dollars in bitcoin
2021-08-25T16:13:50 < jadew> crypto is gamble
2021-08-25T16:14:07 < mouseghost> i had more, but i have them all locked in eth chain without way to pay for fees
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2021-08-25T16:14:10 < jadew> if you know how to trade hype, you could make some money, otherwise it's like throwing a dice
2021-08-25T16:14:24 < jpa-> yeah, it is a silly restriction; one can get the same tax benefits by having a company, but the amount of paperwork just makes it not worth it for small amounts
2021-08-25T16:14:56 < mouseghost> jadew, trade hype? 
2021-08-25T16:15:10 < jadew> jpa-, my accountant advised me to do all the investing as a private person, rather than via the company
2021-08-25T16:15:37 < jadew> mouseghost, yeah, crypto is like meme stocks
2021-08-25T16:15:47 < mouseghost> uhum
2021-08-25T16:15:50 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-08-25T16:15:52 < jadew> only worse, because it doesn't really have any value, it can actually go to 0
2021-08-25T16:15:56 < mouseghost> i do have $50 on ethereum blockchain
2021-08-25T16:16:16 < jpa-> jadew: did they have a reason for that advice?
2021-08-25T16:16:44 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, paperwork + slightly higher taxes
2021-08-25T16:17:03 < jpa-> yep
2021-08-25T16:17:24 < jadew> he said it's only worth doing it like that if you're dealing with lots of money and you have other clients too
2021-08-25T16:18:02 < jpa-> yeah, getting paid through the company and investing excess directly pre-income-tax could work
2021-08-25T16:18:11 < jadew> the reason I wanted to do it like that was because if I did it via the company I could access the company's money quicker
2021-08-25T16:18:37 < jpa-> quicker than what?
2021-08-25T16:18:44 < jadew> than paying myself dividends
2021-08-25T16:19:08 < jadew> currently I've never paid myself
2021-08-25T16:20:23 < jpa-> i don't have a company (as in separate legal entity), this private entrepreneurship is delightfully simple in paperwork & money transactions
2021-08-25T16:20:50 < mouseghost> the hell are these ethereum fees?
2021-08-25T16:21:04 < jadew> ah, we have that thing too
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2021-08-25T16:42:29 < mawk> my phone can record calls
2021-08-25T16:43:14 < jadew> is it made in china?
2021-08-25T16:43:18 < Steffanx> Can it  now?
2021-08-25T16:43:34 < mawk> then if people lie and say they never say something on the phone I can't be gaslit
2021-08-25T16:43:46 < mawk> it's a Google pixel jadew 
2021-08-25T16:43:59 < mawk> but I r00ted it
2021-08-25T16:44:01 < jadew> then  s/can/is/
2021-08-25T16:44:19 < jadew> I did that for a while
2021-08-25T16:44:23 < mawk> it records every call
2021-08-25T16:44:32 < jadew> it's very useful if you forget stuff
2021-08-25T16:44:46 < mawk> then you have to endure hearing your own voice
2021-08-25T16:44:46 < jadew> and yes, you can then rub it into people's faces when they say they never said that
2021-08-25T16:44:55 < jadew> that's how I stopped talking to my dad
2021-08-25T16:45:03 < mawk> lol
2021-08-25T16:45:07 < mawk> what happened
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2021-08-25T16:45:58 < jadew> I don't remember, he said something stupid, I got gaslit, we had a fight, then he tried to say he didn't say that and I told him I can refer him to our conversation
2021-08-25T16:46:01 < jadew> and that was the end of it
2021-08-25T16:46:22 < mawk> is he too proud to admit it
2021-08-25T16:47:30 < jadew> don't know, we have a very tense relationship
2021-08-25T16:48:44 < jadew> mainly because I fended for myself my whole life and I don't need his talking-to's in my 30s
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2021-08-25T17:01:08 < Steffanx> Its not that you to be the most easy person yourself, jadew ;)
2021-08-25T17:01:34 < jadew> oh, I'm aware of that
2021-08-25T17:01:55 < Steffanx> Ah alright 
2021-08-25T17:06:23 < mawk> now fight
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2021-08-25T17:52:58 < englishman> mouseghost: i bought my first stonks when i was 10, parents opened a kids brokerage account, no prob
2021-08-25T17:53:09 < mouseghost> kids brokerage account?
2021-08-25T17:53:21 < karlp> any rust pros here?
2021-08-25T17:53:24 < mouseghost> but was it in their name or what... and youve been given access? or what? englishman
2021-08-25T17:53:31 < mouseghost> karlp, ##rust or something? aks, just aks
2021-08-25T17:53:44 < englishman> it was my account with a cosigner or something, some special account for kids
2021-08-25T17:54:14 < englishman> i bought a bunch of kid shit, apple, disney, mattel, broderbund
2021-08-25T17:54:33 < englishman> i kept it all, apple grew 115,000%
2021-08-25T17:55:05 < englishman> time in the market is the most important thing, if you start saving young you do much better
2021-08-25T17:55:59 < englishman> and so i recommend "Little Book of Common Sense Investing" by john bogle who popularized this one type of investing
2021-08-25T17:56:14 < karlp> figured it out. needed to rip of another platform to see how this wsa normally done.
2021-08-25T17:57:04 < karlp> didn't nkow how to do this: https://paste.centos.org/view/7c34f6e9
2021-08-25T17:57:40 < mouseghost> englishman, are you a millionaire now
2021-08-25T17:58:04 < englishman> a million dollars isnt much anymore
2021-08-25T17:58:18 < englishman> it wont even buy the small house i grew up in
2021-08-25T17:58:33 < PaulFertser> englishman: how did you know to buy apple back then as a kid?
2021-08-25T17:58:41 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, a fun logo, maybe
2021-08-25T17:58:42 < englishman> i liked their computers.
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2021-08-25T17:58:56 < mouseghost> englishman, come to poland
2021-08-25T17:59:24 < mouseghost> i bet you could live off 1 mil dorrar here
2021-08-25T17:59:58 < englishman> PaulFertser: in 1995 steve jobs came back to lead apple and sent a letter to all the shareholders, that he was sorry their little fruit company that was only a few years old lost 1 billion dollars that year. and that it would never happen again. i still have that letter
2021-08-25T18:00:03 < mouseghost> but maybe youve spent it all on drugs already
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2021-08-25T18:01:12 < englishman> i went to gdansk and gdynia in 2014 it was very nice
2021-08-25T18:01:54 < mouseghost> did you see like some kind of strike museum or something
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2021-08-25T18:05:42 < englishman> no but i liked the stark contrast in architecture between these two nearby cities
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2021-08-25T18:29:30 < Laurenceb> supppppp
2021-08-25T18:35:43 < Laurenceb> the British pedo-f-Isles, also known as the UK
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2021-08-25T18:38:15  * Laurenceb is bored and watching brasseye
2021-08-25T18:40:16 < karlp> sweet, got a rust demo doing btle shits on the stm32wb.
2021-08-25T18:40:27 < karlp> this may not be completely insane to just do that.
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2021-08-25T19:04:48 < machinehum> Has anyone designed with Mediatek parts?
2021-08-25T19:09:30 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-25T19:10:52 < machinehum> Because it seems impossible
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2021-08-25T20:41:22 < MrBIOS> Hi folks, I asked this over in ##electronics, and they sent me here. There's a small, open source hardware project that's (ab)using an low end STM32 MCU, with no buffering/transceivers. The STM32F103 has a current rating limit of 25mA per pin, according to its datasheet. Table 7 (Current characteristics) of the STM32F103 datasheet  I assume it's safe to presume this will cause damage to the MCU eventually, but can anyone comment
2021-08-25T20:41:22 < MrBIOS>  on how quickly?  The STM32F103 chip being used has a limit of 25mA per pin. 2 terminators @ 2.85V through 110ohms is twice that.
2021-08-25T20:43:28 < PaulFertser> MrBIOS: is it not an option to combine several pins to share the current load?
2021-08-25T20:43:42 < PaulFertser> MrBIOS: what's the project btw, can you share a link?
2021-08-25T20:45:40 < PaulFertser> In the datasheet you can see the rating is given not only for individual pin but also for the port as a whole.
2021-08-25T20:46:00 < PaulFertser> By combining several pins you can probably fit the energetic bill.
2021-08-25T20:47:51 < PaulFertser> You also have to take into account that these days there're plenty of stm32f103 clones and they might have different physical limits.
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2021-08-25T20:51:07 < MrBIOS> PaulFertser yes I'm aware there are plenty of clones, I have some. There aren't extra pins to use, in this case.
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2021-08-25T21:38:39 < qyx> MrBIOS: cheap rs485 driver is not an option?
2021-08-25T21:38:49 < qyx> or a common push-pull buffer
2021-08-25T21:39:00 < MrBIOS> qyx I didn't design the board, so that's the wrong question to be asking.
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2021-08-25T21:42:33 < qyx> ah
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2021-08-25T21:50:13 < MrMobius> MrBIOS, you might have to buy a whole bunch of them and test if st hasnt done that for you yet
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2021-08-25T22:18:08 < mawk> MrBIOS: so you're planning to go above 25mA/pin?
2021-08-25T22:18:15 < mawk> and you're asking how long will it take to damage it?
2021-08-25T22:18:34 < mawk> I'm pretty sure nothing bad would happen, but the voltage will drop
2021-08-25T22:18:35 < MrBIOS> mawk it's not my project, and they _are_ exceeding the 25mA threshold
2021-08-25T22:18:40 < mawk> by how much?
2021-08-25T22:18:44 < mawk> there's also a global threshold
2021-08-25T22:18:48 < mawk> summing the current of all pins
2021-08-25T22:18:52 < mawk> but I forgot how much it is
2021-08-25T22:19:48 < mawk> you did it yourself karlp ?
2021-08-25T22:19:52 < mawk> you know rust??
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2021-08-25T22:30:22 < kakium69> indeed
2021-08-25T22:30:43 < kakium69> usually pins cannot reach maximum allowed current by themselfs
2021-08-25T22:31:11 < kakium69> but you can exceed it by forcing current into them
2021-08-25T22:32:17 < kakium69> ie: you have some digital input from 12v signal
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2021-08-25T22:34:56 < kakium69> and your input circuit (just a resistor for minimum, resistor+zener/tvs or resistor divider) is miscalculated or shorted
2021-08-25T22:35:06 < kakium69> boom
2021-08-25T22:35:41 < kakium69> for what GPIO pin can pump into load you must look from those graphs
2021-08-25T22:36:43 < kakium69> usually it's just a few milliamps realistically
2021-08-25T22:37:03 < kakium69> unless hi-current pin
2021-08-25T22:56:34 < mouseghost> absinthe bought 
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2021-08-25T23:15:33 < qyx> what for
2021-08-25T23:15:42 < qyx> isn't it wednesday
2021-08-25T23:19:38 < kakium69> what for
2021-08-25T23:21:10 -!- Drek45 [~jrept371@129.59.122.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-08-25T23:21:21 < mouseghost> for one guy's 18th birthday
2021-08-25T23:21:27 < mouseghost> qyx, kakium69
2021-08-25T23:23:32 < Steffanx> happy birthday mr mouseghost
2021-08-25T23:23:39 < mouseghost> no no, not mine, Steffanx
2021-08-25T23:23:52 < Steffanx> aah
2021-08-25T23:24:10 < kakium69> mouseghost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etj6fPjmuaY
2021-08-25T23:24:27 < mouseghost> im from october
2021-08-25T23:24:31 < mouseghost> what month are you from, Steffanx?
2021-08-25T23:25:31 < Steffanx> november sir mouseghost
2021-08-25T23:25:37 < mouseghost> okay sir
2021-08-25T23:25:46 < mouseghost> how about you, mr qyx and mr kakium69
2021-08-25T23:26:01 < kakium69> sept
2021-08-25T23:26:22 < Steffanx> will you buy me absinthe too mouseghost?
2021-08-25T23:26:34 < mouseghost> Steffanx, its pretty expensive
2021-08-25T23:26:50 < Steffanx> im worht it
2021-08-25T23:27:33 < kakium69> my "film has snapped" only once
2021-08-25T23:27:40 < kakium69> it was absinthe
2021-08-25T23:28:55 < mouseghost> does it cause hallucinations, kakium69?
2021-08-25T23:29:01 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i must get to know you mroe
2021-08-25T23:29:02 < kakium69> not for me
2021-08-25T23:29:15 < kakium69> but it's the part of absinthe that is not legal here
2021-08-25T23:30:04 < kakium69> so absinthe here is just 80% sprit basically or something
2021-08-25T23:30:42 < mouseghost> ah
2021-08-25T23:30:44 < kakium69> real absinthe has some flower thing or something in it that has poison stuff
2021-08-25T23:30:48 < mouseghost> here its legal lmao
2021-08-25T23:30:49 < mouseghost> yeah!
2021-08-25T23:30:59 < mouseghost> EU has a regulation on the maximum level of that
2021-08-25T23:31:48 < mouseghost> 10mg/l
2021-08-25T23:32:41 < kakium69> is it enough?
2021-08-25T23:32:53 < kakium69> for real absinthe experience
2021-08-25T23:33:02 < mouseghost> i have no idea!
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2021-08-25T23:41:50 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-25T23:41:52 < kakium69> it's enough
2021-08-25T23:42:22 < kakium69> you need to do that ritual too with the absinthe spoon and sugar bit
2021-08-25T23:42:32 < kakium69> sugar cube
2021-08-25T23:42:39 < kakium69> and ice water
2021-08-25T23:42:41 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-25T23:42:50 < kakium69> I think we drank it just raw
2021-08-25T23:42:59 < kakium69> then washed it down with ice water
2021-08-25T23:43:28 < kakium69> then ate the sugar
2021-08-25T23:44:16 < kakium69> we did them as shots
2021-08-25T23:44:35 < kakium69> but apparently it's not meant to be drank like that
2021-08-25T23:45:06 < mouseghost> mom told me tequilla has a similar ritual
2021-08-25T23:45:09 < mouseghost> with salt and lemon
2021-08-25T23:46:39 < kakium69> ah when I drank absinthe it was illegal
2021-08-25T23:46:44 < kakium69> "absinthe"
2021-08-25T23:47:01 < kakium69> ban has been lifted in 2013 or so
2021-08-25T23:50:58 < qyx> mouseghost: May here but no ethanol intake experienced ever
2021-08-25T23:51:56 < mouseghost> qyx, you never drank alcohol?
2021-08-25T23:57:04 < qyx> nope
2021-08-25T23:59:35 < mouseghost> hm
--- Day changed Thu Aug 26 2021
2021-08-26T00:03:29 < kakium69> not a lot of drinkers here mouseghost
2021-08-26T00:03:33 < mouseghost> i see
2021-08-26T00:03:48 < mouseghost> i mean, i dont drink much or frequently. but i did have alcohol in my mouth
2021-08-26T00:03:59 < Steffanx> Time to ship qyx some stroopwafel liqueur.
2021-08-26T00:04:22 < kakium69> booze stroopwafels
2021-08-26T00:06:18 < kakium69> mouseghost: are you an amateur radio operator?
2021-08-26T00:06:34 < mouseghost> no, why? kakium69
2021-08-26T00:06:39 < kakium69> in here those guys are the heaviest drinkers
2021-08-26T00:06:42 < qyx> but there are many drinkers among southern mouseghost's neighbors
2021-08-26T00:06:44 < mouseghost> i thought of getting a license, but i cant be arsed 
2021-08-26T00:06:57 < mouseghost> theres a lot of drinkers here overall
2021-08-26T00:07:11 < kakium69> they have summer meeting every summer
2021-08-26T00:07:31 < kakium69> it's heavy drinking
2021-08-26T00:07:44 < englishman> That stroopwafl liqueur was good in coffee
2021-08-26T00:08:31 < kakium69> "if it doesn't have pieces of sausage in it - it was just a burp"
2021-08-26T00:09:14 < qyx> do they do beero-over-IP?
2021-08-26T00:09:24 < kakium69> I heard that from amateur radio operator
2021-08-26T00:09:25 < qyx> or better over AX25 or whatever is it
2021-08-26T00:10:36 < kakium69> most likelly
2021-08-26T00:13:23 < englishman> I got to deprecate a rs485 product today
2021-08-26T00:13:28 < englishman> feeling good
2021-08-26T00:13:43 < englishman> product = managed
2021-08-26T00:13:48 < englishman> managed to get it in the trash
2021-08-26T00:13:54 < englishman> >:-)
2021-08-26T00:17:00 < qyx> so, has anyone done a discrete solution for cell balancing?
2021-08-26T00:17:31 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with rs485 mr englishman 
2021-08-26T00:18:12 < Steffanx> Just put a usb-c connector on it and do rs485 over usb-c
2021-08-26T00:18:21 < englishman> Modbugs
2021-08-26T00:18:26 < mouseghost> qyx, is the cell balancing discrete or continous?
2021-08-26T00:18:41 < mouseghost> cant you use like a comparator or something?
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2021-08-26T00:19:25 < qyx> yeah I am curious if a resistor divider buffered with a single op-amp with its output connected to the middle will do any good
2021-08-26T00:20:08 < englishman> it probably won’t be cheaper or easier than an ic
2021-08-26T00:20:15 < mouseghost> oh i have no idea about opamps...
2021-08-26T00:20:19 < mouseghost> also ye, what englishman says
2021-08-26T00:20:24 < englishman> and your comparator will be just as out of stock 
2021-08-26T00:20:50 < qyx> but op-amp is a generic device compared to a BQ shit with 200 registers
2021-08-26T00:20:58 < qyx> and mighty software for configuration
2021-08-26T00:21:21 < qyx> I am trying to avoid balancing altogether
2021-08-26T00:21:25 < mouseghost> why do you want to buffer the resistor divider?
2021-08-26T00:21:52 < qyx> but sourcing 40 W to a 1S pack is quite challenging
2021-08-26T00:22:04 < qyx> to not consume power when balanced
2021-08-26T00:22:22 < mouseghost> hm
2021-08-26T00:24:57 < karlp> mawk: no, ran someone else's demo, but it buitl and worked, and gives me (probbly misguided) confidence that it's viable...
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2021-08-26T00:28:06 < kakium69> qyx: how many cells you have in series?
2021-08-26T00:29:14 < kakium69> or intended to have
2021-08-26T00:29:25 < kakium69> what is your voltage input range
2021-08-26T00:29:54 < mouseghost> how to look at op-amp back-feeds etc? can i look at it in time series or something?
2021-08-26T00:33:54 < kakium69> i did weird thing
2021-08-26T00:34:12 < Steffanx> That suites you kakium69 
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2021-08-26T01:57:18 < karlp> fecking micro sd crds, never can find some when I want them
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2021-08-26T02:51:17 < kakium69> just buy 10
2021-08-26T02:51:25 < kakium69> then scatter them around
2021-08-26T02:55:45 < karlp> yah, I've already done that twice .)
2021-08-26T03:15:22 < karlp> ecking 4g router doesn't seem to allow any port forwarding
2021-08-26T03:15:32  * karlp needs to call the damn vendor in the morning. wooo
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2021-08-26T03:25:51 < kakium69> are you trying to forward ISP blocked ports?
2021-08-26T03:26:11 < karlp> I suspect that might be thecase
2021-08-26T03:26:25 < kakium69> what port?
2021-08-26T03:26:37 < karlp> I've tried 2222 4022 8022 to get a redir to port 22
2021-08-26T03:26:43 < karlp> none of them seem to get through
2021-08-26T03:27:01 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-26T03:27:41 < karlp> bit tedious, do I really have to got and work aroudn that further? seems like a fucking pain
2021-08-26T03:28:03 < kakium69> it shouldn't be the case then
2021-08-26T03:28:23 < karlp> yeah, shouldnt be.
2021-08-26T03:28:25 < kakium69> usually it's those low port numbers that get blocked by isp
2021-08-26T03:28:31 < karlp> wasn't really expecting a problem, bt....
2021-08-26T03:28:52 < kakium69> my connection has 2 possible APNs
2021-08-26T03:29:02 < kakium69> one is like propper internets
2021-08-26T03:29:16 < kakium69> one is via ISP nat
2021-08-26T03:30:44 < kakium69> you might want to check that too
2021-08-26T03:31:00 < kakium69> if there is multiple apn configurations
2021-08-26T03:31:06 < karlp> not that I'm aware of.
2021-08-26T03:31:19 < kakium69> that you have one with public ip
2021-08-26T03:32:11 < karlp> well, it appears to be... yes.
2021-08-26T03:32:22 < karlp> but not really convinced of that :)
2021-08-26T03:33:19 < kakium69> did you get the box from ISP?
2021-08-26T03:33:34 < kakium69> with ISP sodomized firmware?
2021-08-26T03:33:52 < karlp> box from isp, box appears unbranded, and all three major isp's here use the same box...
2021-08-26T03:34:08 < kakium69> unbranded :o
2021-08-26T03:34:35 < kakium69> pics
2021-08-26T03:35:18 < karlp> I mena, it's a huawei b818...
2021-08-26T03:35:27 < karlp> but it's not been branded by each local ISP, is what I mean.
2021-08-26T03:36:26 < karlp> aight, out of time
2021-08-26T03:38:18 < kakium69> upgrade firmware
2021-08-26T03:39:05 < karlp> yeah, pretttttty sure it's an isp issue.
2021-08-26T03:39:26 < kakium69> most likelly
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2021-08-26T10:20:09 < c10ud_> so, I have this > 10yrs design that in this production lot fucks up reads in fsmc
2021-08-26T10:21:06 < c10ud_> so, I sometimes get fails reading back data (the bus is shared between mac and a couple of srams)
2021-08-26T10:21:37 < c10ud_> however, reading memory with the jtag probe shows correct data, duh
2021-08-26T10:32:40 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-08-26T10:33:50 < c10ud_> weird thing is it's almost always reading back 0x0088 as the 16bit (wrong) value, when fault occurs
2021-08-26T10:34:03 < c10ud_> (or 0x0080)
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2021-08-26T10:38:36 < ventyl> is it possible to hook up logic analyzer?
2021-08-26T10:40:53 < c10ud_> too difficult..i suspect some electrical noise/loading issue
2021-08-26T10:41:09 < c10ud_> (it's 26bit addr 16data)
2021-08-26T10:41:39 < ventyl> well, it seems that nowadays some suppliers are very vague on QC and some of your parts may be well... out of spec
2021-08-26T10:42:27 < c10ud_> i notice that putting my finger onto the traces (maybe it reaches the vias) fucks up as expected
2021-08-26T10:42:48 < c10ud_> but not putting anything should lead to correct behaviour...which is not always the case
2021-08-26T10:43:09 < c10ud_> hence is why I'm suspecting more excessive load vs noise
2021-08-26T10:43:51 < c10ud_> but still, i don't get why I always read back the same fucked up data (ie. 0x0088 or 0x0080) 
2021-08-26T10:44:42 < c10ud_> ventyl, i also fear that I may have got some unknown-origin parts, but I would like to understand if it could be the pcb before cutting down components
2021-08-26T10:45:55 < ventyl> I am not a pro here, I have just seen some parts being well out of specs
2021-08-26T10:46:08 < ventyl> companies are trying to sell whatever they have in this chip shortage
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2021-08-26T12:24:49 < kakium69> ventyl: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VCGpEbJ4UykUph5Lk3NiIIatCoqjladN/view?usp=sharing
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2021-08-26T12:32:17 < jpa-> c10ud_: do you know what is the correct data at that point?
2021-08-26T12:37:54 < c10ud_> yup
2021-08-26T12:38:06 < c10ud_> I think I just found the culprit though
2021-08-26T12:39:15 < c10ud_> nor flash (on the same data/addr lines) control signals (CEn and/or rstn) being not initialized when the sram/mac tests were being executed
2021-08-26T12:40:02 < c10ud_> and IC being changed in the last batch with a "pin-to-pin compatible" one 
2021-08-26T12:40:36 < c10ud_> looks like this one is very sensitive to its ctrl signals, when compared with the old one
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2021-08-26T14:14:48 < karlp> rustastical: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/GD7jAjYs54BQ9zj
2021-08-26T14:17:48 < Steffanx> How many lines of rust did you write for this?
2021-08-26T14:18:27 < karlp> 660 lines of rust, 
2021-08-26T14:18:42 < karlp> the rest is the stm32wb library, the bluetooth hci library
2021-08-26T14:18:52 < karlp> I was just trying to estimate how much code is the cubemx version 
2021-08-26T14:19:01 < karlp> but it's splatted across a mountain of files.
2021-08-26T14:19:22 < karlp> I've got to make sure how low power it can go, but man, that was a lot fucking easier than I expected.
2021-08-26T14:25:58 < karlp> https://github.com/etactica/stm32wb55/blob/examples-update/examples/eddystone_alt.rs
2021-08-26T14:26:05 < karlp> most of that is boilerplate still.
2021-08-26T14:36:44 < srk> :-)
2021-08-26T15:35:20 < englishman> what does everyone use for USB port protection? this is a usb-c doing simple 5v sink only. i think just a series diode and esd is plenty but what do you guys do
2021-08-26T15:36:43 < englishman> on another product with PD and 20V/3A i used TPD6S300A plus a fuse and DPS1133 but this is a simpler product and doesn't need much
2021-08-26T15:39:20 < karlp> I've used the usblc6 stuff for usb2, but none of it has been tested in any real way, just protos, "doing the right thing"
2021-08-26T15:42:04 < Steffanx> usblc6 here too. And tested.
2021-08-26T15:48:12 < zyp> same on the orbtrace
2021-08-26T15:48:31 < zyp> but not tested :)
2021-08-26T15:49:53  * karlp grins
2021-08-26T15:50:15 < srk> neato https://hackaday.io/project/181065-modular-differential-probe
2021-08-26T15:50:52 < srk> especially the pcb tweezers!
2021-08-26T16:00:54 < jpa-> at least someone appreciates it, instead of wanting more LDOs ;)
2021-08-26T16:05:05 < srk> heh, I see https://hackaday.io/project/181065-modular-differential-probe/log/197133-power-supply-filtering 
2021-08-26T16:05:11 < srk> interesting
2021-08-26T16:08:59 < englishman> so just ESD then, no OVP/OCP or anything?
2021-08-26T16:09:28 < englishman> not even with USBC?
2021-08-26T16:11:28 < englishman> i have one old product where the guy put beads on VBUS and D+/D- plus 100p AND 10p caps before and after the beads. plus ESD and a protection diode
2021-08-26T16:11:36 < karlp> well, I've not done any usbc stuff, no :|
2021-08-26T16:13:22 < karlp> nice compiler errors in rust: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FsDli.png
2021-08-26T16:25:22 < zyp> fun
2021-08-26T16:26:42 < karlp> that suggestion wasn't actually very good though, it might hav ebeen "correct" but just ".len() as u8"  was more appropriate here.
2021-08-26T16:27:19 < karlp> I'm also a bit confused as to how it didn't know.  .len() of that constant should be constant and range checkable as far as I can tell.
2021-08-26T16:27:36 < karlp> guess it's not _super_ magical
2021-08-26T16:27:49 < ventyl> Do I smell embedded MCU side Rust?
2021-08-26T16:28:05 < zyp> ventyl, that's all the rage nowadays
2021-08-26T16:28:20 < ventyl> I am not raging, I am genuinely curious
2021-08-26T16:28:32 < ventyl> unlike Go, I find Rust an interesting language
2021-08-26T16:28:59 < zyp> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/be-all-the-rage
2021-08-26T16:29:31 < ventyl> TIL some new phrase :)
2021-08-26T16:29:46 < zyp> :)
2021-08-26T16:37:24 < Steffanx> Better not start using it, its confusing ;)
2021-08-26T16:38:01 < Steffanx> Although we do use it in dutch as well. Same word, same meaning 
2021-08-26T16:46:38 < ventyl> i am surely not going to use it in dutch
2021-08-26T16:55:00 < Steffanx> Who knows. 
2021-08-26T16:55:32 < Steffanx> Find yourself a dutch gf/bf and join the rage.
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2021-08-26T16:59:47 < karlp> ventyl: yeah, lunch yesterday I had the idea of at least checking where the stm32wb support was at in rust, I knew general stuff _should_ work, and now, ~a day later, I've got similar level demos as I have with cubemx working.
2021-08-26T17:00:19 < karlp> and I've done ~zero rust before.  
2021-08-26T17:01:06 < karlp> so pretty happy so far.
2021-08-26T17:01:35 < karlp> cant' say the whole cascaded dependency tree is _realllly_ my idea of a good time, but...
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2021-08-26T17:53:14 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-08-26T17:53:30 < Laurenceb> anyone here used mcp2515 CAN transceiver?
2021-08-26T17:54:28 < Laurenceb> I have a board thats being weird, tx data from the mcp2515 has correct bitrate, but is malformed, with >5bits in a row without transitions
2021-08-26T18:08:47 < ventyl> Laurenceb: i suppose qyx did
2021-08-26T18:16:43 < englishman> hey Laurenceb do you remember when you said spacex would never land a rocket
2021-08-26T18:16:53 < englishman> and then remember later when you said they would never reuse a rocket
2021-08-26T18:17:06 < englishman> and then later remember when you said falcon heavy wouldn't work
2021-08-26T18:17:12 < englishman> and the later you said starlink wouldnt work
2021-08-26T18:17:17 < englishman> how's roccoon going?
2021-08-26T18:17:35 < karlp> lol
2021-08-26T18:19:33 < emeb> owche
2021-08-26T18:23:00 < ventyl> no predictions about heart of stainless steel?
2021-08-26T18:28:29 < Laurenceb> no because I never said those things
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2021-08-26T18:31:22 < Laurenceb> nope this isnt going to work
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2021-08-26T19:00:04 < bitmask> oh boy, this is gonna be grossly satisfying... I ordered one of those ear cleaner otoscope/endoscope things and its 1 stop away from being delivered
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2021-08-26T19:11:06 < Steffanx> Enjoy probing, bitmask 
2021-08-26T19:11:25 < Steffanx> No need for pics this time
2021-08-26T19:13:45 < bitmask> haha no worries
2021-08-26T19:13:51 < bitmask> that aint happening
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2021-08-26T20:04:30 < veverak> anybody any tips for PCIe -> USB3 chip? want to try to design carrier board for Rpi CM4
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2021-08-26T20:39:23 < jpa-> looks like i've discovered new rule of life:  1. publish blog post about owon dmm  2. become the internet's #1 owon support resource  3. ???   4. i don't think there is gonna be profit here
2021-08-26T20:39:39 < zyp> enjoy
2021-08-26T20:44:06 < Steffanx> im proud of you jpa-
2021-08-26T20:48:06 < bitmask> so it turns out my ears are very hairy but pretty damn clean
2021-08-26T20:48:35 < jpa-> bitmask: where is your earcam livestream?
2021-08-26T20:48:45 < bitmask> haha no way thats going up
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2021-08-26T20:51:33 < englishman> haha
2021-08-26T20:51:34 < Steffanx> no, the scope is supposed to go up.
2021-08-26T20:51:50 < englishman> does it really have 20% precision
2021-08-26T20:55:52 < jadew> the scope has 20% precision?
2021-08-26T20:56:01 < englishman> the owon dmm
2021-08-26T20:56:02 < Steffanx> no the owon meter
2021-08-26T20:56:06 < Steffanx> ^ 
2021-08-26T20:56:16 < jadew> must be broken then
2021-08-26T20:56:23 < Steffanx> the specs are weird
2021-08-26T20:56:31 < PaulFertser> I wonder how they're contacting you about those owon issues, via personal e-mail? The blog post has just 6 comments.
2021-08-26T20:57:08 < englishman> which owon model is it again
2021-08-26T20:57:44 < PaulFertser> englishman: https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/owon-xdm2041-info
2021-08-26T20:58:01 < englishman> http://www.owon.com.hk/products_4_1%7C2_digits__bench-type_xdm2041_digital_multimeter
2021-08-26T20:58:10 < englishman> yeah it is weird they say like 0.1% + 10
2021-08-26T20:58:14 < englishman> they probably mean 10 counts
2021-08-26T20:59:36 < jpa-> PaulFertser: email yeah
2021-08-26T21:00:25 < jpa-> englishman: yeah, must be counts even though the heading says % of range
2021-08-26T21:02:21 < Helmholtz> Do embedded devs/electrical engs even exist in these surveys? https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#overview
2021-08-26T21:02:50 -!- Drek45 [~jrept371@129.59.122.18] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-26T21:04:06 < jpa-> Helmholtz: there is "Developer, embedded applications or devices" listed
2021-08-26T21:05:12 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-26T21:07:49 < englishman> so lets see
2021-08-26T21:08:01 < englishman> if the 0.1%+10 counts is correct it's much more realistic
2021-08-26T21:08:17 < englishman> so a 10 mV measurement would be +-20 uV
2021-08-26T21:08:30 < englishman> where on a 34461a it would be +- 4 uV
2021-08-26T21:08:34 < englishman> so pretty damn good for the price
2021-08-26T21:08:37 -!- c4017w [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-08-26T21:10:18 < jpa-> the manual calls it "% of reading + LSB" which i guess makes a bit more sense, though it does not display bits
2021-08-26T21:11:52 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-26T21:12:32 < jpa-> my 2.048V +- 0.02% reference shows up as 2.0478V
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2021-08-26T21:20:41 < englishman> nice
2021-08-26T21:22:11 < englishman> 4.5 digits is what
2021-08-26T21:22:13 < englishman> 14.5 bits
2021-08-26T21:22:49 < englishman> sounds realistic
2021-08-26T21:23:17 < englishman> very good for the price
2021-08-26T21:23:25 < englishman> especially with the connectivity
2021-08-26T21:24:10 < jadew> probably 12 bits
2021-08-26T21:24:46 < jadew> the + 10 LSB really means 10 counts for sure
2021-08-26T21:27:47 < jadew> ah, I think 4.5 is 14 bits, yeah
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2021-08-26T21:46:53 < englishman> is there a rs232 transceiver that is both 1) instock and popular and 2) not gigant0r tssop16
2021-08-26T21:48:01 < englishman> https://www.ti.com/product/TRSF3232E TRSF3232EIRGT instock and cheap
2021-08-26T21:49:42 < mouseghost> the chip shortage is just like communism here :((
2021-08-26T21:49:46 < mouseghost> nothings in
2021-08-26T21:49:49 < mouseghost> just vinegar
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2021-08-26T22:07:50 < srk> gotta wait hours in line to get your brand new f7s?
2021-08-26T22:12:43 < englishman> TRS3221E is single channel my mistake
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2021-08-26T23:30:55 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-08-26T23:30:58 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-08-26T23:31:09 < Laurenceb> I just discovered why muh MCP2515 wont work
2021-08-26T23:31:17 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/jewmerchant/MCP2515-linux-driver/blob/master/can%20driver
2021-08-26T23:31:21 < Laurenceb> ^can you spot it?
2021-08-26T23:32:33 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2021-08-26T23:32:35 < Steffanx> Not going to read 1k lines
2021-08-26T23:33:23 < kakium69> 1094 lines with no highlight colouring
2021-08-26T23:33:46 < kakium69> cannot even read a single line
2021-08-26T23:35:10 < kakium69> fixme?
2021-08-26T23:35:11 < Laurenceb> wooosh
2021-08-26T23:35:21 < kakium69> incomplete?
2021-08-26T23:35:21 < Laurenceb> check the username of the guy who wrote it
2021-08-26T23:35:41 < kakium69> yes it's in the url already
2021-08-26T23:35:45 < kakium69> what is wrong with the code?
2021-08-26T23:35:49 < Laurenceb> looks like I got jewed
2021-08-26T23:36:48 < Laurenceb> I dunno whats wrong with the codez
2021-08-26T23:40:18 < kakium69> what does it do wrong?
2021-08-26T23:40:25 < kakium69> did you check FIXME?
2021-08-26T23:40:31 < Laurenceb> hmm good plan
2021-08-26T23:40:37 < Laurenceb> I'm not sure whats wrong 
2021-08-26T23:40:49 < Laurenceb> it initialises according to dmesg
2021-08-26T23:41:23 < Laurenceb> but when I try to send can data I get corrupted data with the correct bit timing then "can0 bus off" on dmesg
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2021-08-26T23:43:11 < kakium69> corrupted how?
2021-08-26T23:43:14 < kakium69> partially?
2021-08-26T23:43:16 < kakium69> completelly?
2021-08-26T23:43:28 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-26T23:44:56 < kakium69> code uses goto
2021-08-26T23:45:02 < kakium69> this guy is oldschool
2021-08-26T23:49:27 < kakium69> Laurenceb: totally, partially, inverted, noise?
2021-08-26T23:49:50 < Laurenceb> no its not inverted
2021-08-26T23:49:59 < Laurenceb> its just that the data makes no sense
2021-08-26T23:50:24 < Laurenceb> seemingly random data with the correct bit spacing but >5 consecutive 0 or 1, which shouldnt happen
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2021-08-26T23:51:48 < kakium69> in middle part of data?
2021-08-26T23:52:01 < kakium69> does it start at some point?
2021-08-26T23:52:33 < Laurenceb> all the data it seems
2021-08-26T23:52:35 < Laurenceb> bbl
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2021-08-26T23:58:17 < kakium69> Laurenceb: have you probed into SPI yet?
2021-08-26T23:58:35 < Laurenceb> no I need a logic analyser 
2021-08-26T23:58:57 < kakium69> wym
2021-08-26T23:59:04 < Laurenceb> I'll try that tomorrow, first I'll remove the CAN transceiver and short TX to RX to emulate loopback
--- Day changed Fri Aug 27 2021
2021-08-27T00:00:04 < Laurenceb> looks from the source like "successful boot init" doesnt actually test it very well
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2021-08-27T00:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/hKAdUVh
2021-08-27T00:16:29 < Steffanx> How you convert your animations to this ftdi IC you use, Mangy_Dog ?
2021-08-27T00:16:52 < Mangy_Dog> i create a image asset with the frames set as cell tiles
2021-08-27T00:17:20 < Mangy_Dog> in the code you set the image size, and if you set the height smaller than the image, it automatically changes the tile based on the cell number in the draw command
2021-08-27T00:17:48 < Steffanx> Hm
2021-08-27T00:17:52 < Mangy_Dog> im currently using gameduinos own asset converter to make the asset file
2021-08-27T00:18:06 < Mangy_Dog> but ill be usint ftdi/bridgetecks own one in a near future project
2021-08-27T00:18:19 < Mangy_Dog> the gameduino one makes a whole asset dump in one file 
2021-08-27T00:18:38 < Mangy_Dog> but the ftdi/bridgetech one makes individual bin files for each asset
2021-08-27T00:18:52 < Mangy_Dog> ill need to make a new asset loading code to work it that way
2021-08-27T00:29:49 < Laurenceb> maybe I should tell the ADL about Lunix
2021-08-27T00:30:04 < Laurenceb> antisemiticOS
2021-08-27T00:30:54 < Laurenceb> grrrr someone has surely seen this error before
2021-08-27T00:31:08 < Laurenceb> xtal must be running as the bit timing is correct
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2021-08-27T00:42:27 < karlp> englishman: if you're doing rs232, you don't get to complain about tssop16  ;)
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2021-08-27T00:42:53 < kakium69> complain about tssop16?
2021-08-27T00:42:55 < kakium69> too big?
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2021-08-27T00:43:37 < Laurenceb> I get bus off error when it fails
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2021-08-27T01:26:45  * jadew is exploring the tax system
2021-08-27T01:27:33 < zyp> exploiting*
2021-08-27T01:27:37 < jadew> haha
2021-08-27T01:28:03 < jadew> well, I am looking for the cheapest path to my money
2021-08-27T01:28:18 < jadew> I was very close to going back to school
2021-08-27T01:28:44 < zyp> have you considered getting a job?
2021-08-27T01:29:07 < jadew> I have, but then the tax would be higher than if I didn't have one
2021-08-27T01:29:24 < jadew> turns out it's slightly less expensive to just work for free and then pay yourself dividends
2021-08-27T01:29:32 < jadew> not by much, but it adds up
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2021-08-27T01:31:04 < jadew> and if I pay myself below the minimum wage, I can scrape off another 10%
2021-08-27T01:31:19 < zyp> yeah, that's how it is here too, but you also miss out on some social benefits if you go that way
2021-08-27T01:31:30 < jadew> yep
2021-08-27T01:31:43 < zyp> so what I'd do is pay me enough of a salary to max out social benefits, and then the rest as dividends
2021-08-27T01:31:48 < jadew> not sure I want them tho... I could probably get better insurance for that money
2021-08-27T01:32:16 < zyp> tax on the salary is also progressive
2021-08-27T01:32:20 < zyp> tax on dividends is not
2021-08-27T01:32:31 < jadew> in here it's fixed, but they're different
2021-08-27T01:33:07 < jadew> and on a salary, you pay the healthcare stuff as a percentage of what you make, while with dividends you pay it on the minimum wage
2021-08-27T01:33:41 < zyp> doesn't work like that here
2021-08-27T01:34:36 < jadew> there's more, if I hire myself as a programmer, I can shake off the income tax (17%), but then I pay the healthcare stuff from the actual salary
2021-08-27T01:35:00 < jadew> (not from the minimum wage)
2021-08-27T01:35:39 < zyp> I did this a while ago: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/708999306933305377/859791293642047498/unknown.png
2021-08-27T01:35:40 < jadew> but for that I would have to go back to school, because I dropped out, and that would add 1k EUR per month to my expenses
2021-08-27T01:35:43 < jadew> it would still make sense tho
2021-08-27T01:36:10 < zyp> total tax rate in % vs income in 1M NOK
2021-08-27T01:36:11 < jadew> tax graph?
2021-08-27T01:36:25 < jadew> got it, that's nice
2021-08-27T01:36:36 < jadew> I should make one too
2021-08-27T01:36:54 < jadew> your tax system looks more complicated
2021-08-27T01:38:17 < jadew> I was planning my retirement and figured out I need more money lol
2021-08-27T01:38:29 < zyp> this is how normal employee income is taxed, there's a social tax, general income tax and a step tax with four steps
2021-08-27T01:38:37 < kakium69> norway like only oil country that plays like it doesn't have the oil
2021-08-27T01:39:05 < jadew> zyp, yeah, we don't have the step tax
2021-08-27T01:39:32 < zyp> it's to make it more progressive
2021-08-27T01:40:04 < kakium69> why did you make the graph?
2021-08-27T01:40:15 < kakium69> you tried to optimize your salary?
2021-08-27T01:40:33 < zyp> here's tax in NOK vs income: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/708999306933305377/859791763610009620/unknown.png
2021-08-27T01:40:34 < kakium69> just bellow the elbow
2021-08-27T01:40:39 < zyp> nah
2021-08-27T01:40:54 < kakium69> vs income
2021-08-27T01:41:00 < kakium69> what was the first one+
2021-08-27T01:41:08 < zyp> there's no point on the graph where you'll get less money by earning more
2021-08-27T01:41:36 < zyp> both are same X axis, first one is tax %, second one is tax in NOK
2021-08-27T01:41:40 < kakium69> ah first one was percentage
2021-08-27T01:44:27 < zyp> I made the graph to get a better idea of how the distribution is
2021-08-27T01:46:33 < zyp> especially around how it ramps up 
2021-08-27T01:48:57 < zyp> IIRC the social tax is something like «X%, but never more than Y% of the income above Z», so it starts at 60k something NOK and ramps up fairly quckly
2021-08-27T01:49:50 < zyp> the regular income tax is «22% of income minus this discount and minus this other discount that's X% of your salary but never more than Y»
2021-08-27T01:51:17 < zyp> so that starts ramping up once you're above the minimum discount, slows down a bit and once you hit the maximum discount it ramps up a bit more again
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2021-08-27T01:52:02 < zyp> step taxes are easy, they're all «X% of income between Y and Z» where Z is infinite for the last step
2021-08-27T01:52:27 < zyp> but the first step looks super useless, it's like 1k NOK in total
2021-08-27T01:53:37 < zyp> and there's not much of a difference between steps 3 and 4 either
2021-08-27T02:03:08 < jadew> what's the blue region in the first graph?
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2021-08-27T02:05:49 < jadew> ok, now that I understand our tax system, it doesn't seem that bad
2021-08-27T02:06:26 < Laurenceb> hmm ok so Bus off is an error recovery state
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2021-08-27T02:15:20 < zyp> jadew, the bottom part? social tax
2021-08-27T02:16:45 < jadew> I see
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2021-08-27T02:45:53 < machinehum> PaulFertser: Will this be upstreamed? https://github.com/linino/openocd-nrf9160
2021-08-27T02:46:37 < machinehum> Also has anyone used it? The Nordic flashing shit is a cancerous mess
2021-08-27T02:50:45 < karlp> if anyone tries upstreaming it...
2021-08-27T02:50:58 < karlp> oocd people don't have time to go searching in random forks for potentially upstreamable code.
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2021-08-27T03:48:42 < machinehum> Fair enough
2021-08-27T03:53:04 < machinehum> I wonder if I can just take the nrf9160.cfg
2021-08-27T04:01:52 < karlp> heh, went to one of my test boards for porting some example code to rust.
2021-08-27T04:01:59 < karlp> it uses L1, "obviously"
2021-08-27T04:02:10 < karlp> that's _not_ a well supported target in rust :)
2021-08-27T04:06:15 < englishman> rs232 is used everywhere tho
2021-08-27T04:06:27 < englishman> well I’ll be happy with a 3x3mm transceiver 
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2021-08-27T08:45:48 < PaulFertser> machinehum: feel free to send patches to upstream
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2021-08-27T12:24:44 < ventyl> kakium69: do you have spikes on your tires?
2021-08-27T12:24:58 < kakium69> no
2021-08-27T12:25:10 < Steffanx> there is no ice on the road today?
2021-08-27T12:25:32 < ventyl> there's already snow in Tatras
2021-08-27T12:26:11 < ventyl> POLLHUP is rather retarded notification
2021-08-27T12:30:16 < kakium69> Tatras?
2021-08-27T12:30:29 < ventyl> a piece of not completely flat land around
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2021-08-27T12:51:54 < karlp> we have our first weather warning today, but it's still warm.
2021-08-27T12:52:06 < karlp> certainly haven't put the spikes on yet, fuck me, it's still august!
2021-08-27T13:01:22 < jpa-> i'd expect to put winter tires on in late october or in november
2021-08-27T13:01:48 < Steffanx> winter tires on your bicycle?
2021-08-27T13:02:22 < jpa-> yeah, and parrot's mobile
2021-08-27T13:02:41 < Steffanx> Will you ever go for your drivers license?
2021-08-27T13:03:05 < kakium69> I have stud tyres for bicycle though
2021-08-27T13:03:56 < jpa-> Steffanx: maybe if i get some reason why i can't bike anymore
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2021-08-27T13:38:11 < Steffanx> ah
2021-08-27T13:38:20 < Steffanx> two kids on the bicycle, sounds fun jpa- :P
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2021-08-27T13:38:36 < Steffanx> or will the first one be self-driving?
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2021-08-27T14:01:10 < karlp> one on the front, one on the back.
2021-08-27T14:01:21 < karlp> by the time the one on the front is too big, the one on the back is on their own bike...
2021-08-27T14:01:55  * karlp has only ever had one kid on the bike, to be fair, but there's a couple of others here that have two on a "normal" bike, and more than few with various cargo bike arrangements
2021-08-27T14:06:51 < zyp> my kid is growing out of the front seat, kinda tempted to get some sort of cargo bike with a larger seat up front
2021-08-27T14:07:47 < zyp> seems more enjoyable than a back seat with my ass taking up most of the view
2021-08-27T14:08:51 < ventyl> cant back seat be turned reverse?
2021-08-27T14:09:04 < ventyl> so he can show middle fingers to all slower riders you'll pass?
2021-08-27T14:18:06 < karlp> I've had both girls on a back seat, they still enjoy it.
2021-08-27T14:18:17 < karlp> (they never had a front seat to compare to though...)
2021-08-27T14:18:24 < karlp> cargo bikes are just so pricy
2021-08-27T14:21:03 < Steffanx> i know, one on the back, one on the front, but that is something i wouldnt do on a icey road, karlp
2021-08-27T14:21:05 < Steffanx> an
2021-08-27T14:25:43 < zyp> pricy, heavy and big
2021-08-27T14:26:21 < zyp> and also a bit overkill
2021-08-27T14:45:08 < karlp> Steffanx: studded tires are phenomenal honestly.
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2021-08-27T15:45:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: we use a bike trailer anyway, a double width trailer is not much different
2021-08-27T15:45:55 < jpa-> but yeah, first kid cycles pretty well himself already
2021-08-27T15:46:47 < jpa-> and regarding second child, got some error flag and status register is back to zero
2021-08-27T15:54:26 < karlp> ah well, happens.
2021-08-27T15:54:45 < karlp> sucks though
2021-08-27T15:56:12 < jpa-> yeah, fortunately was early and no complications
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2021-08-27T16:37:57 < tct> jpa-, congratz on differential probe
2021-08-27T16:38:18 < aandrew> jpa-: took forever for my (then 8yo) son to learn to ride
2021-08-27T16:38:23 < aandrew> my 17yo daughter also had a hell of a time getting it
2021-08-27T16:38:47 < aandrew> the rest of them had no issues whatsoever, the now-20yo just picked up a bike at 4 and started riding without training wheels
2021-08-27T16:38:56 < aandrew> sorry not 4, 5
2021-08-27T16:39:24 < aandrew> he was also the kid who didn't say a word until 4 though, then out of the blue during a conversation I was having with a friend, looked at me and said "... I just don't know what to say!" and then went back to playing with his train
2021-08-27T16:39:41 < aandrew> so he was a little weird from the start
2021-08-27T16:39:56 < aandrew> the other three were pretty normal, training wheels etc etc
2021-08-27T16:48:10 < jpa-> my kid was very enthustiastic pushbiker, going around forests since 2 years or something; then learned pretty easily to bike with pedals and no training wheels at 4 years old
2021-08-27T16:53:21 < karlp> yeah, fuck training wheels, just makes it worse.
2021-08-27T16:53:48 < karlp> what a ridiculous idea, let's stop the bike from tilting, like it's meant to, that will definitely teach people how to ride.
2021-08-27T16:54:35 < englishman> my dad learned to ride a bike by being pushed down a hill, falling off then being beaten by nuns until he couldn't move
2021-08-27T16:55:29 < aandrew> karlp: well you don't put the training wheels so the bike is perfectly vertical
2021-08-27T16:55:30 < englishman> glad to hear you dads are using more modern techniques
2021-08-27T16:55:45 < aandrew> you put them up about 1/4 to 1/2" so the bike wobbles and you make it a game to keep the trainign wheels from making noise
2021-08-27T16:56:25 < aandrew> as they get more proficient you move them up higher until they're not needed
2021-08-27T16:58:02 < karlp> nope, never a good idea.
2021-08-27T16:58:16 < karlp> even an inch up isn't enough clearance, 
2021-08-27T16:58:29 < karlp> you can ge tpushed over by a sloping surface even not letting you ride normally
2021-08-27T16:58:42 < karlp> they do nothing but encourage bizarre leaning and unnatural positions
2021-08-27T16:58:58 < karlp> use a balance bike, add pedals, done..
2021-08-27T17:03:30 < jadew> ^ yep, that works extremely well
2021-08-27T17:03:58 < jadew> it's almost as if they already know how to ride a balance bike
2021-08-27T17:05:29 < jadew> when my kid got his balance bike, he just got on it and started riding... I was running within a couple of minutes
2021-08-27T17:11:10 < jpa-> we did use training wheels for a short while to practice how to spin pedals, but yeah, does not work for learning balance
2021-08-27T17:11:40 < jadew> we used protective gear for that :)
2021-08-27T17:13:09 < zyp> we got the kid a balance bike for her birthday
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2021-08-27T17:35:45 < mawk> https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931
2021-08-27T17:35:54 < mawk> bloot clot more likely with covid than with taking the vaccine
2021-08-27T17:43:50 < Steffanx> Bloot. Are you bloot, mawk?
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2021-08-27T17:49:34 < mawk> blooooooood
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2021-08-27T18:29:34 < bitmask> gud murning
2021-08-27T18:29:41 < tct> Guten Tag
2021-08-27T18:31:35 < Steffanx> Hallo
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2021-08-27T18:40:36 < Steffanx> Ça va?
2021-08-27T18:56:31 < ventyl> i have just spent three hours debugging "nasty ciphersuite error" which boiled down to typo in config file
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2021-08-27T19:26:20 < Laurenceb> keeek someone has put crackpot anti lockdown posters all round the city center
2021-08-27T19:26:40 < Laurenceb> >first they lie to you, then they make you wear the fake masks, then they gas the black people
2021-08-27T19:26:58 < Laurenceb> now it all makes sense
2021-08-27T19:29:27 < Laurenceb> >put that nazi mask away
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2021-08-27T21:09:08 < octorian> Anyone try to combine RESET and BOOT0 into one button?  I've seen some circuits that do this, but they seem way too complex for me to justify.
2021-08-27T21:09:44 < octorian> Though it would be nice if the user didn't need to perform two actions at once (e.g. pushing in the BOOT0 button and plugging in power) to put my device into programming mode.
2021-08-27T21:11:04 < mawk> honestly I don't know what the target demographic of the boot0 bootloader is octorian 
2021-08-27T21:11:06 < mawk> just use swd
2021-08-27T21:11:45 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2021-08-27T21:12:01 < mawk> and if it's the target user of your own device and you insist on having programming support through the st bootloader, well you can reboot in it at any time from your code
2021-08-27T21:12:09 < mawk> you don't need external dedicated button
2021-08-27T21:13:10 < octorian> That brings up another option...  Connect the button to both BOOT0 and a GPIO input.  So if its pressed at runtime, it'll trigger a reboot into the bootloader.  But if the firmware is broken, it can still be pressed at power-up.
2021-08-27T21:13:34 < octorian> Pretty much the same thing I'd get by connecting it to both BOOT0 and RST, except it depends on functional firmware to work.
2021-08-27T21:14:00 < mawk> expose test pads and let users find their own way to pull these pins
2021-08-27T21:26:18 < qyx> am I wrong or is boot0 shared with a gpio and perfectly accessible from the firmware?
2021-08-27T21:26:51 < octorian> BOOT0 is shared with a GPIO on some parts, but not all.
2021-08-27T21:30:12 < kakium69> it's just the default mode of the pin
2021-08-27T21:30:14 < kakium69> at boot
2021-08-27T21:31:47 < octorian> On the part I'm working with (STM32L072KBU), I don't believe there's any way to read the BOOT0 pin like a GPIO after startup.
2021-08-27T21:40:48 < kakium69> if it's not BOOT0/GPIO in pin listing
2021-08-27T21:40:57 < kakium69> if it's only BOOT0
2021-08-27T21:41:04 < kakium69> then it's no GPIO
2021-08-27T21:41:27 < kakium69> but you might have a register somewhere.. it's stm32 after all
2021-08-27T21:41:50 < kakium69> where you can read BOOTx pin states
2021-08-27T21:43:00 < kakium69> octorian: just ctrl-f the technical reference manual
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2021-08-27T22:36:30 < octorian> kakium69, I think the pin is only sampled to set that register on reset.
2021-08-27T22:36:48 < kakium69> did you ctrl-f the TRM pdf?
2021-08-27T22:36:56 < kakium69> aa
2021-08-27T22:36:58 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-27T22:37:04 < kakium69> makes sense
2021-08-27T22:38:49 < octorian> Okay, its sampled on reset, and on exit from standby.
2021-08-27T22:39:36 < kakium69> just use standby as your sampling method
2021-08-27T22:40:36  * kakium69 *chuckles*
2021-08-27T22:41:00 < kakium69> dwm.exe 19.13GBytes
2021-08-27T22:41:00 < octorian> I wasn't originally planning to bother with standby for this device...  Though I could see going into standby after a long (to a human) timeout period.
2021-08-27T22:41:32 < kakium69> 19.14GBytes
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2021-08-27T22:42:02 < kakium69> let's see what happens if I terminate that task
2021-08-27T22:42:30 < octorian> So if I do tie a switch to both BOOT0 and a GPIO, I can see 3 ways to use that: 1) Press-on-powerup, go to STM bootloader.  2) Short press-and-release at runtime, reset/jump into own firmware update thingie.  3) Long press at runtime, trigger reset that ends up in the STM bootloader because the button is still held down.
2021-08-27T22:42:56 < octorian> (with option #2 being optional in the short term)
2021-08-27T22:46:52 < octorian> Of course #2 and #3 can technically be triggered by more user-visible stuff, so maybe there's still no point in connecting this to a GPIO.
2021-08-27T22:49:29 < kakium69> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000058381/graphics/graphics-for-8th-generation-intel-processors.html thanks intel
2021-08-27T22:49:53 < kakium69> 30MB process is now 19gigs
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2021-08-27T22:50:31 < kakium69> reboot requireds
2021-08-27T22:50:32 < kakium69> >
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2021-08-27T22:53:41 < octorian> So the more I think about this, combining BOOT0 with RST does make sense from a user-convenience perspective.  But if that's way too complex to actually implement, then I might as well not bother doing anything special with RST.  Because routing this through a GPIO doesn't actually give me anything I can't get via some other method.
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2021-08-27T22:54:21 < octorian> http://acheronproject.com/reset_article/principle.html :: Interesting stuff, but way too much effort for a seldom-used nice-to-have.
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2021-08-27T22:56:00 < octorian> Makes me wonder if someone makes an MCU supervisor IC that can do all that stuff in one component.
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2021-08-27T23:04:25 < kakium69> weird transistor
2021-08-27T23:09:54 < kakium69> you should avoid using weird transistor and go for generic transistor
2021-08-27T23:10:17 < kakium69> even when it would require one or so more passives
2021-08-27T23:29:46 < octorian> In any case, I'm also now wondering why the L072K has so many more power/ground pins than the L052K
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2021-08-27T23:54:06 < kakium69> ore IO?
2021-08-27T23:54:12 < kakium69> more*
--- Day changed Sat Aug 28 2021
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2021-08-28T00:08:06 < Steffanx>  Moar 
2021-08-28T00:09:49 < kakium69> moooar
2021-08-28T00:13:36 < kakium69> 21H1>
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2021-08-28T01:12:26 < kakium69> I wonder if laurencer is recharging
2021-08-28T01:12:40 < kakium69> he had some sass last night
2021-08-28T01:14:43 < karlp> so, I've got "carrier grade nat" on this LTE connection apparently.  the "wan" ip address is 100.64.blah, so that's obviously unreachable for any outside port forwards.
2021-08-28T01:15:18 < karlp> but there's a wan v6 address as well,
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2021-08-28T01:15:50 < karlp> which resolves to this nova-mobile-t.cpe.novanet.is which looks like a virtual cgnat outside border, not my lte modem at all.
2021-08-28T01:16:22 < kakium69> and the twist?
2021-08-28T01:16:26 < kakium69> you need to pay
2021-08-28T01:16:34 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-28T01:16:53 < karlp> curl icanhazip gives me a _different_ v6 address, which gets one hop further, but again, doesn't trigger any port forwards for me.
2021-08-28T01:17:02 < karlp> they said "we're not blocking any inbound ports"
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2021-08-28T01:17:09 < karlp> and offered me a static ip,
2021-08-28T01:17:22 < karlp> but fuck, I have to pay for a static ip monthly to be able to have any services?!
2021-08-28T01:17:26 < karlp> what sort of internet is this?!
2021-08-28T01:21:00 < kakium69> what is your apn?
2021-08-28T01:21:14 < kakium69> "internet"?
2021-08-28T01:23:37 < kakium69> my LTE gives natted connection with "internet"
2021-08-28T01:23:53 < karlp> yeah.
2021-08-28T01:24:00 < karlp> they only mention one APN 
2021-08-28T01:24:12 < karlp> I might just pay for a staic ip.
2021-08-28T01:24:26 < karlp> I'm on contract for six months to get the router cheaper, then I can just move.
2021-08-28T01:24:38 < karlp> I was going to switch to their monthly plan then, but I wasn't expecting this sort of shit.
2021-08-28T01:24:53 < kakium69> have you googled "(your isp) apn settings"
2021-08-28T01:25:27 < kakium69> if there is any non-official sources even
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2021-08-28T01:28:11 < kakium69> see apn settings for that static ip connection too
2021-08-28T01:28:18 < kakium69> if there i more apn options
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2021-08-28T01:30:44 < kakium6946> I should try different apn
2021-08-28T01:31:20 < kakium6946> I think this one might be incorrect as there is different apn for older subscriptions
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2021-08-28T01:35:57 < kakium69> karlp: try net.nova.is
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2021-08-28T01:37:11 < kakium69> also try blank apn
2021-08-28T01:38:03 < kakium69> internet.nova.is?
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2021-08-28T01:39:53 < kakium69> your currency is weird
2021-08-28T01:40:09 < kakium69> internets costs tens of thousands a month
2021-08-28T01:40:22 < kakium69> phones cost hundred of thousands
2021-08-28T02:00:42 < karlp> we'v been at school for a week and there's two infections already. this is going to be tedious
2021-08-28T02:06:16 < englishman> once more unto the breach
2021-08-28T02:07:25 < englishman> I’m starting school completely remote. Not very stimulating
2021-08-28T02:07:58 < englishman> but the school has both zoom and office 364 with teams. Very modern
2021-08-28T02:09:32 < englishman> First assignment is to read creativity inc. by ed catmull. That part is stimulating.
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2021-08-28T02:13:59 < kakium69> you school?
2021-08-28T02:14:30 < kakium69> also jobb?
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2021-08-28T02:22:13 < karlp> typical mba ;)
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2021-08-28T02:39:29 < englishman> Yepp :)
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2021-08-28T04:44:50 < karlp> sweet, added my own characteristics to the btle rust.
2021-08-28T04:45:07 < karlp> there's still big chunks of rust I just don't know how to do, but I can spaghetti my way to glory :)
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2021-08-28T06:21:23 < mawk> we're losing karlp to the rust devil
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2021-08-28T07:51:46 < jpa-> mawk: don't worry, we'll be the cobol masters of future - people will look up/down/sideways to us and wonder "how on earth can anyone write code in C++, and where would we be without them?"
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2021-08-28T15:24:24 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-58341330
2021-08-28T15:24:31 < Laurenceb> typical britbong activities
2021-08-28T15:24:54 < Laurenceb> >smoke ur nans yard
2021-08-28T15:25:14 < Laurenceb> irl kekking
2021-08-28T15:47:15 < Steffanx> Ok thanks 
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2021-08-28T19:02:44 < Laurenceb> http://crackingtheenigma.blogspot.com/2011/10/many-faces-of-autism.html
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2021-08-28T22:11:52 < upgrdman> anyone know of a tool for windows that will MITM a serial port and let you corrupt things (to help test the robustness of your code) ? for example: drop a byte, insert a byte, replace a byte, etc.
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2021-08-28T22:26:34 < jpa-> upgrdman: i haven't used it, but this says "noised line emulation"  https://sourceforge.net/projects/com0com/
2021-08-28T22:30:31 < upgrdman> k
2021-08-28T22:52:18 < mawk> lol jpa- yeah
2021-08-28T22:53:48 < qyx> is karlp our SoC and WiFi pro yet?
2021-08-28T22:54:45 < qyx> any good 802.11ac chip/module out there?
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2021-08-28T23:08:03 < Steffanx> Even a signed driver for win10?
2021-08-28T23:08:44 < zyp> qyx, 8devices got some interesting looking stuff
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2021-08-28T23:11:54 < qyx> just found u-blox Jody-W3
2021-08-28T23:12:06 < qyx> using sdio though
2021-08-28T23:12:27 < qyx> may be actually better than usb
2021-08-28T23:16:49 < qyx> yeah mango from 8devices looks promising
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2021-08-28T23:43:56 < kakium69> hello cool
2021-08-28T23:57:25 < kakium69> innocool
2021-08-28T23:57:30 < kakium69> how is innovation today?
--- Day changed Sun Aug 29 2021
2021-08-29T00:07:43 < kakium69> laurencer banned?
2021-08-29T00:14:50 < Steffanx> Maybe 
2021-08-29T00:24:04 < upgrdman> i was also look for a 802.11ac or ax module. i wonder if a pi4 would be usable... some way to get lots of data through the pin header, and setup an sd card to forward data between the pin header and wifi
2021-08-29T00:24:37 < upgrdman> or maybe the camera headers would be better for shuffling lots of data in/out of the pi4
2021-08-29T00:35:00 < kakium69> :o
2021-08-29T00:36:07 < kakium69> you crazy
2021-08-29T00:36:11 < kakium69> how?
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2021-08-29T00:39:48 < kakium69> fpga?
2021-08-29T00:40:47 < aandrew> wtf the amazon vendor cancelled my rpi compute module order without explanatio
2021-08-29T00:42:48 < kakium69> they didn
2021-08-29T00:42:52 < kakium69> have any
2021-08-29T00:43:43 < kakium69> karlp: have you played with APN settings net.nova.is and internet.nova.is?
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2021-08-29T01:26:31 < mawk> for what kakium69 NB-IoT ???
2021-08-29T01:27:13 < mawk> Steffanx: go ask zx2c4 on #wireguard 
2021-08-29T01:27:25 < mawk> he did a signed driver for wireguard for windows
2021-08-29T01:27:30 < mawk> he will be happy to answer questions
2021-08-29T01:28:04 < mawk> tell him you're a friend of mawk
2021-08-29T01:37:42 < kakium69> friendoffriend
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2021-08-29T03:35:23 < jadew> did my accounting for the first time...
2021-08-29T03:35:49 < jadew> it looks like I'm losing more money with the electronics stuff than I thought I would
2021-08-29T03:36:02 < jadew> and that doesn't take into account my time
2021-08-29T03:36:53 < jadew> it looks like I spent 10k more than I made this year
2021-08-29T03:37:13 < jadew> not even sure on what...
2021-08-29T03:45:40 < mawk> tell him you're a friend of mawk
2021-08-29T03:45:42 < mawk> oops
2021-08-29T03:45:51 < mawk> Multispeed internal RC oscillator (MSI), trimmable by software, able to generate 12 frequencies from 100 kHz to 48 MHz. When a 32.768 kHz clock source is available in the system (LSE), the MSI frequency can be automatically trimmed by hardware to reach better than ±0.25% accuracy. In this mode the MSI can feed the USB device. The MSI can supply a PLL. 
2021-08-29T03:46:00 < mawk> how do I enable this trimming?
2021-08-29T03:46:04 < mawk> on L432KC
2021-08-29T03:46:17 < mawk> I've enabled CRS but it seems it's for the HSI48 clock and not for the MSI clock
2021-08-29T03:46:32 < mawk> and I don't see any bit in RCC or CRS about this trimming
2021-08-29T03:46:40 < mawk> is it automatic as soon as LSE is enabled?
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2021-08-29T04:34:31 < mawk> hmm it's possible to disable mass storage mode of the stlink now apparently
2021-08-29T04:34:37 < mawk> it's pretty useless so I'll disable it
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2021-08-29T09:19:23 < Steffanx> Mawk, why should ask that guy? Was just wondering if this project jpa- linked has it 
2021-08-29T09:20:17 < jpa-> Steffanx: it does claim "full windows 10 support" on the website
2021-08-29T09:20:38 < Steffanx> Ah
2021-08-29T09:20:47 < jpa-> and has a folder called "Signed drivers" on the download page
2021-08-29T09:20:55 < Steffanx> Maybe I should try then :P
2021-08-29T09:21:17 < jpa-> https://sourceforge.net/projects/signed-drivers/files/com0com/   but hmm, signed only for windows 7&8?
2021-08-29T09:22:48 < Steffanx> And The notes below 
2021-08-29T09:23:06 < Steffanx> So turn off secure boot..
2021-08-29T09:27:41 < jpa-> signed but not signed enough
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2021-08-29T10:43:44 < Steffanx> Hm
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2021-08-29T14:10:54 < jpa-> lols, decided to "Request Stock Notification" on digikey, just in case the parts would suddenly appear.. but apparently there is a global stock notice shortage also: "This feature is temporarily unavailable. We are working diligently to get this fixed. Thank you for your patience."
2021-08-29T14:25:47 < srk> :D:D
2021-08-29T14:27:49 < zyp> haha
2021-08-29T15:10:52 < Steffanx> lol
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2021-08-29T16:09:31 < aandrew> jpa-: lol
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2021-08-29T16:36:18 < aandrew> karlp: fucking lol
2021-08-29T16:36:25 < karlp> :)
2021-08-29T16:36:43 < karlp> bad day at the office?
2021-08-29T16:37:02 < karlp> kakium69: yeah, net.nova.is doens't work at all.
2021-08-29T16:37:34 < karlp> qyx: I don't really look for wifi6/11ac shits, that's too mcuh money/power/net for me.
2021-08-29T16:38:05 < karlp> well, I guess
2021-08-29T16:38:25 < karlp> rtl8821cu is "ac" but only 1x1, and it's usb, and works otu of the box...
2021-08-29T16:39:02 < karlp> but that's a combined wifi+bt chipset, which is what I wanted.  I've really not looked at the wifi only solutions/options
2021-08-29T16:42:26 < karlp> qyx: 8devices is pretty solid, can recommend.
2021-08-29T16:56:07 < Steffanx> Yeah, farewell aandrew. Dont forget to make a great recording.
2021-08-29T16:56:15 < Steffanx> livestream on facebook?
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2021-08-29T23:41:54 < kakium69> karlp: how about internet.nova.is?
--- Day changed Mon Aug 30 2021
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2021-08-30T00:19:45 < kakium69> how long since you guys have surf'd internets?
2021-08-30T00:20:50 < kakium69> how to even surf internets today?
2021-08-30T00:21:48 < kakium69> everybody used to have a home page and home page had links page
2021-08-30T00:21:52 < kakium69> then just follow links
2021-08-30T00:24:08 < Steffanx> Read twatter.
2021-08-30T00:24:22 < Steffanx> Get rss feeds
2021-08-30T00:25:38 < kakium69> aah
2021-08-30T00:25:46 < kakium69> twitter is modern surfing
2021-08-30T00:27:35 < Steffanx> Or get in touch with Laurenceb 
2021-08-30T00:28:16 < kakium69> unban
2021-08-30T00:28:25 < kakium69> let's enjoy it together
2021-08-30T00:28:36 < kakium69> :o
2021-08-30T00:30:54 < kakium69> but how to surf twitter?
2021-08-30T00:31:23 < kakium69> it's not like you get nothing but front page unless someone posts url to something
2021-08-30T00:32:52 < Steffanx> Register twakium69, follow people, get some links 
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2021-08-30T00:33:10 < kakium69> ah
2021-08-30T00:33:15 < kakium69> you need to follow people?
2021-08-30T00:33:42 < Steffanx> Just don't look follow aandrew . He is about to commit suicide by lava. 
2021-08-30T00:33:44 < kakium69> you mean like Elon dude?
2021-08-30T00:33:59 < Steffanx> No, just some guys that look interesting maybe 
2021-08-30T00:34:36 < Steffanx> Lol idk. I hardly look on twatter.
2021-08-30T00:35:00 < Steffanx> But sometimes something interesting shows up 
2021-08-30T00:35:35 < Steffanx> But also too much he/she/them/whatever woke sjw shit 
2021-08-30T00:35:58 < kakium69> aandrew is getting baked by lava to enlarge his internet peepee?
2021-08-30T00:36:38 < aandrew> no
2021-08-30T00:36:53 < Steffanx> He wanted to jump into an active vulcano 
2021-08-30T00:37:14 < kakium69> you have musics steff?
2021-08-30T00:37:55 < Steffanx> Not today
2021-08-30T00:39:37 < Steffanx> Random piano music maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOSTEouYCs
2021-08-30T00:39:49 < kakium69> I still very like your Earth & Fire recommend
2021-08-30T00:40:09 < kakium69> Steffanx: nah
2021-08-30T00:43:44 < Steffanx> Random sound track/movie music ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWHbWac-QhY
2021-08-30T00:44:54 < kakium69> if artist name is Jean-Pierre it must be good
2021-08-30T00:45:38 < kakium69> what is this film?
2021-08-30T00:45:50 < Steffanx> The divide.
2021-08-30T00:46:30 < qyx> the what
2021-08-30T00:46:31 < kakium69> have not seen
2021-08-30T00:46:53 < qyx> Steffanx: don't you like woke sjw shit?
2021-08-30T00:47:13 < Steffanx> Fuck no, dont bother me with that
2021-08-30T00:47:34 < qyx> I am sorry, excuse me
2021-08-30T00:50:11 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi53_WqZFMU here is sleep musics for you steff. Encore
2021-08-30T00:50:16 < Steffanx> kakium69: Its not a super great movie, but.. watchable if you like "fucked up" bad movies
2021-08-30T00:50:23 < kakium69> no
2021-08-30T00:51:32 < kakium69> and it seems to follow the madness in a closed space theme what I gather from trailer
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2021-08-30T00:51:48 < kakium69> my quota for those movies is full
2021-08-30T00:52:24 < Steffanx> Do you enjoy that shit, mr qyx?
2021-08-30T00:52:58 < kakium69> mr?
2021-08-30T00:54:53 < qyx> Steffanx: not at all
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2021-08-30T00:55:49 < kakium69> okay tried to make a joke but I don't know any other but mister and missis
2021-08-30T00:56:41 < Steffanx> Lol kakium69 
2021-08-30T00:57:13 < kakium69> that is why we need laurencer to green text us
2021-08-30T00:57:25 < kakium69> the madness
2021-08-30T00:58:31 < Steffanx> Hes around once in a while
2021-08-30T00:58:57 < Steffanx> Like yesterday 
2021-08-30T00:59:14 < kakium69> I want to hear how he fixed the canbus driver
2021-08-30T01:02:32 < Steffanx> Ill ask him when hes around 
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2021-08-30T03:25:00 < mawk> I found why stm32cubeIDE supplies their own version of make/gcc
2021-08-30T03:25:04 < mawk> I forgot who was talking about it
2021-08-30T03:25:27 < mawk> they patched make to do «Fix for long path issues on Windows»
2021-08-30T03:26:08 < mawk> «Windows has a limit of the number of characters in paths to files. This fix allows up to 248 characters in paths to GCC tool chain binaries and up to 4096 chars for all files processed by the GCC tools. Without the patch the latter limit is about 150 characters.»
2021-08-30T03:26:26 < mawk> was it you PaulFertser 
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2021-08-30T03:26:52 < mawk> they also rebuilt newlib with -Os instead of -O2 so it takes 30% less size
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2021-08-30T03:27:51 < mawk> list of patches: https://serveur.io/gnu-tools-for-stm32_patches.pdf
2021-08-30T03:28:38 < steve__> is there a software that is used to make diagrams and tables that look like the ones in datasheets?  they all look the same to an extent...
2021-08-30T03:28:51 < mawk> dot?
2021-08-30T03:28:55 < mawk> tikz?
2021-08-30T03:29:03 < mawk> MS WOrd
2021-08-30T03:29:18 < steve__> dot was my guess but can't any evidence that there is some kind of standard or pattern
2021-08-30T03:30:46 < steve__> tikz does look familiar.  thanks
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2021-08-30T04:28:47 < aandrew> What was wrong with the can driver?
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2021-08-30T05:56:01 < steve__> With a .elf or .map, I'm able to see the sizes of input sections, and I can see the sizes of memory regions eg flash.  Is there a tool to see how much flash is used?  ie. the total of all the sections that go in flash?  somehow the linker knows internally if too much flash is used.  I could add up the output sections but there may be lots
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2021-08-30T06:06:44 < steve__> seems the info is not there.. the elf and map only cares about address, not the name of the memory region defined in the linker script.
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2021-08-30T08:46:56 < zyp> steve__, quickest trick is probably to just use the standard objcopy command to make a .bin and look at the size of the resulting file
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2021-08-30T09:27:50 < jpa-> for me, size -t has worked fine; but i have stuff that goes to flash named .text.*
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2021-08-30T10:03:21 < ventyl> steve__: linker cares about sections internally, it knows which bytes should go into which section and what address region is reserved for that section
2021-08-30T10:04:30 < ventyl> steve__: you can simply assume, that .data occupies .data section from map, but there is no such tool, simply because you can mangle with organization a lot making generic implementation impossible
2021-08-30T10:04:46 < ventyl> automotive guys could tell their part here
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2021-08-30T10:28:43 < benishor> https://how-i-experience-web-today.com/
2021-08-30T10:37:38 < drzacek> benishor, on point
2021-08-30T10:38:52 < drzacek> in a perfect world, we would get this https://suckless.org/sucks/web/
2021-08-30T10:39:18 < ventyl> heh, recently I've seen one such ad for paid account "Browse this web without ads, and much more snappier just for xy EUR"
2021-08-30T10:39:58 < drzacek> create problem, provide solution
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2021-08-30T12:49:14 < benishor> ads are cancer
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2021-08-30T15:25:25 < Laurenceb> supppp
2021-08-30T15:27:33 < ventyl> lolrence
2021-08-30T15:30:55 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/518610865520377856/881732884937982002/200px-Eye_Glasses_For_Chickens.png
2021-08-30T15:31:13 < Laurenceb> >shitscord
2021-08-30T15:31:19 < tct_> stm32
2021-08-30T15:32:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.northernparrots.com/images/blogs/blog_dot_feather_plucking2580w.jpg
2021-08-30T15:33:22 < jadew> ripped his shirt off in the heat of the battle
2021-08-30T15:35:01 < Laurenceb> >The Parrot chooses its favourite human and in frustration at the non-consummation of the relationship may get aggressive or pluck its own feathers. This sexual plucking is often marked with Cockatoos.
2021-08-30T15:35:07 < Laurenceb> keeek Parrotcels
2021-08-30T15:36:30 < jpa-> better consummate
2021-08-30T15:36:50 < Laurenceb> kek
2021-08-30T15:39:04 < Laurenceb> big black parrots, from africa
2021-08-30T15:43:33 < Laurenceb> anyone here used setitimer in lunix?
2021-08-30T15:44:08 < Laurenceb> can it be "turned off" by passing argument of zero once its started?
2021-08-30T15:44:16 < ventyl> yes
2021-08-30T15:44:57 < ventyl> it is stated in it's manpage
2021-08-30T15:45:55 < Laurenceb> derp, cool
2021-08-30T15:46:29 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to keep muh eMMC up to date without loads of writes
2021-08-30T15:47:02 < Laurenceb> plan is to write current sector after ~2s even if the data content hasnt got to 512bytes
2021-08-30T15:47:27 < ventyl> are you aware of kernel cache, right?
2021-08-30T15:47:36 < ventyl> or you sync() after every write?
2021-08-30T15:47:48 < Laurenceb> I'm bypassing the filesystem
2021-08-30T15:48:11 < ventyl> i think that device itself still has some cache, unless you open it in raw mode
2021-08-30T15:48:38 < ventyl> not cache, buffer
2021-08-30T15:48:39 < Laurenceb> yeah its in raw mode, and from the datasheet it has 512byte hardware level sectors
2021-08-30T15:49:13 < Laurenceb> my other question is how the eMMC tracks unused sectors for wear levelling
2021-08-30T15:49:18 < qyx> and you know emmc may wait unspecified time until the data is actually written
2021-08-30T15:49:20 < Laurenceb> I dont quite get it...
2021-08-30T15:49:38 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah but I cant do anything about that right ?
2021-08-30T15:49:47 < qyx> idk if it is possible to bypass that too
2021-08-30T15:51:01 < Laurenceb> is it literally a case of the number of written sectors? 
2021-08-30T15:51:11 < Laurenceb> and the eMMC does all levelling at a lower level?
2021-08-30T15:52:45 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you can ask all the same questions about SD cards.
2021-08-30T15:53:13 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: different vendors do different shit. Probably for some eMMC this behaviour is specified in part datasheet, probably not.
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2021-08-30T16:11:01 < Laurenceb> yeah its undocumented
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2021-08-30T16:11:35 < ventyl> that means you shouldn't assume any specific behavior
2021-08-30T16:11:45 < ventyl> even less any behavior suiting your use-case
2021-08-30T16:12:15 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm just trying to work out how to calculate expected life
2021-08-30T16:12:29 < Laurenceb> e.g. if I have a 1GB partition on a 8GB card
2021-08-30T16:13:47 < Laurenceb> do I increase lifetime by a factor of 8
2021-08-30T16:19:19 < qyx> lifetime on a flash media is usually specified as a TBW (terabytes written)
2021-08-30T16:19:25 < qyx> regardles of partitioning etc.
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2021-08-30T16:20:34 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-30T16:20:59 < ventyl> hm, std::string and std::vector are surprisingly useful with POSIX read()
2021-08-30T16:21:01 < qyx> you are not going to look up memory technology, multiply by number of P/E cycles, assume some wear levelling algos and then surprise-predict the lifetime
2021-08-30T16:21:29 < qyx> just read how the manufacturer specifies lifetime and calculate using that value
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2021-08-30T16:25:39 < Laurenceb> aiui for the Samsung eMMC on RPi, erase block size is very large, but write takes place over 512byte sectors
2021-08-30T16:26:08 < Laurenceb> also it uses copy before erase, so if it loses power it should only ever lose <512bytes
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2021-08-30T16:30:33 < Laurenceb> anyway looks like I should just get a larger card to get more lifetime, even if the log partition size remains unchanged
2021-08-30T16:31:13 < ventyl> IIRC, then TBW/size increases with size
2021-08-30T16:31:57 < Laurenceb> interesting, because of more efficient wear levelling?
2021-08-30T16:32:04 < tct_> stm32
2021-08-30T16:32:29 < Laurenceb> mainline lunix now supports stm32, so this is ontopic n00b
2021-08-30T16:33:13 < ventyl> maybe just marketing expects, that smaller devices will be pushed to the limits more often with wear leveling failing it's purpose killing device sooner
2021-08-30T16:33:15 < tct_> I don´t care
2021-08-30T16:33:28 < tct_> Laurenceb, wut, like official Cortex-M support?
2021-08-30T16:33:43 < ventyl> apparently something like that
2021-08-30T16:33:47 < tct_> oh boy
2021-08-30T16:33:51 < tct_> why?
2021-08-30T16:34:01 < tct_> more because they can or serious reasons?
2021-08-30T16:34:02 < Laurenceb> yeah, with adc drivers and everything, looks hawt
2021-08-30T16:34:27 < tct_> also on M4 or only M7?
2021-08-30T16:34:32 < ventyl> I'd say that it is pure marketing stuff. I wouldn't use it for anything serious
2021-08-30T16:34:38 < qyx> I tried M4
2021-08-30T16:34:40 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/iio/adc/stm32-adc.c
2021-08-30T16:34:43 < qyx> tct_: it worked.. somehow
2021-08-30T16:34:44 < tct_> qyx, how was the experience?
2021-08-30T16:35:10 < qyx> it paniced after trying to execute any shell script
2021-08-30T16:35:15 < qyx> including init :>
2021-08-30T16:35:20 < tct_> lol
2021-08-30T16:35:32 < tct_> so what´s next? display with X? q__q
2021-08-30T16:35:39 < qyx> probably some busybox mmu-less incompatibility or something other
2021-08-30T16:35:50 < tct_> wasn´t busybox DOS shiet?
2021-08-30T16:35:58 < qyx> thats dosbox
2021-08-30T16:36:09 < tct_> oh lol - brain.
2021-08-30T16:37:22 < Laurenceb> I was thinking about how I could use lunix for hyperloop
2021-08-30T16:37:51 < Laurenceb> then I realised: use PPP over RS485 - each stm32 can have its own ip address
2021-08-30T16:38:02 < Laurenceb> could even use network boot lmao
2021-08-30T16:47:48 < Laurenceb> nevar forget  https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cpus/linux-atmel-microcontrollers/1/
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2021-08-30T17:07:46 < Steffanx> Laurenceb, are you awake?
2021-08-30T17:07:56 < Steffanx> Did you solve your lunix CAN issue?
2021-08-30T17:08:14 < Steffanx> If yes, how?
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2021-08-30T17:38:21 < mawk> you need a large coffee tct_ 
2021-08-30T17:39:13 < mawk> ventyl: only in C++17 you can use std::string wiht read() iirc
2021-08-30T17:39:18 < mawk> otherwise you have no guarantee that the memory is contiguous
2021-08-30T17:39:26 < mawk> but std::vector is always fien
2021-08-30T17:39:29 < mawk> fine
2021-08-30T17:39:37 < tct_> mawk, on it
2021-08-30T17:40:15 < mawk> is a touchscreen expensive?
2021-08-30T17:40:23 < mawk> like 256×128 or something small like this
2021-08-30T17:40:27 < tct_> no
2021-08-30T17:40:35 < mawk> how much is no
2021-08-30T17:40:40 < mawk> 40€ per piece?
2021-08-30T17:40:41 < tct_> < 10$
2021-08-30T17:40:42 < mawk> or 4€
2021-08-30T17:40:43 < mawk> ah
2021-08-30T17:40:43 < mawk> good
2021-08-30T17:40:54 < tct_> you can even get IPS panels for similar price tags
2021-08-30T17:40:55 < mawk> but it will be like a shitty resistive touchscreen at that price no?
2021-08-30T17:41:00 < mawk> how much for capacitive
2021-08-30T17:41:16 < tct_> usually not that much more expensive
2021-08-30T17:41:25 < mawk> good
2021-08-30T17:41:27 < tct_> are you talking single units or quantites?
2021-08-30T17:41:32 < mawk> single units
2021-08-30T17:41:35 < tct_> interface?
2021-08-30T17:42:05 < tct_> 320x240 is very common
2021-08-30T17:42:33 < tct_> shiet like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909074960.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7f214b81oYZ7PN&algo_pvid=4f3deb70-56ed-45a9-a41e-258d629c188a&algo_exp_id=4f3deb70-56ed-45a9-a41e-258d629c188a-0
2021-08-30T17:42:39 < tct_> that one is a resistive one tho
2021-08-30T17:42:50 < tct_> and parallel interface
2021-08-30T17:42:59 < tct_> you can directly drive that through F(S)MC tho
2021-08-30T17:43:32 < mawk> spi maybe
2021-08-30T17:43:33 < tct_> cheaper stuff often comes just with SPI: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000056270428.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7f214b81oYZ7PN&algo_pvid=4f3deb70-56ed-45a9-a41e-258d629c188a&algo_exp_id=4f3deb70-56ed-45a9-a41e-258d629c188a-11
2021-08-30T17:43:57 < mawk> ah nice
2021-08-30T17:43:57 < tct_> depending on what you wanna do you might want to get a display controller that can do hardware fills as that sucks over SPI.
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2021-08-30T17:44:11 < mawk> I need a refresh rate of like 0.00001Hz
2021-08-30T17:44:18 < mawk> I just want to display stuff that doesn't change very often
2021-08-30T17:44:18 < tct_> well then fuck that.
2021-08-30T17:44:23 < tct_> just any old SPI display will do.
2021-08-30T17:46:00 < tct_> not sure if worth going for capacitive touch then tho
2021-08-30T17:46:11 < tct_> cheap resistive pannels work quite well to be honest and costs shit
2021-08-30T17:50:57 < Steffanx> Will you use ugfx mawk?
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2021-08-30T18:15:57 < mawk> yes Steffanx
2021-08-30T18:16:01 < mawk> if tct_ sends me gummy bears
2021-08-30T18:16:10 < mawk> like würth elektronik they always send gummy bears so I like them
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2021-08-30T18:19:54 < Mangy_Dog> can some one help me... Whats the properway to set an array size within a class, when i create the object? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/881918896557396038/unknown.png 
2021-08-30T18:19:59 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/881919682062467132/unknown.png
2021-08-30T18:20:02 < Mangy_Dog> isnt it
2021-08-30T18:21:00 < mawk> what do you mean Mangy_Dog ?
2021-08-30T18:21:13 < mawk> ah
2021-08-30T18:21:21 < mawk> well no you can't do that
2021-08-30T18:21:37 < mawk> you can do it using a template Mangy_Dog 
2021-08-30T18:21:47 < mawk> or using dynamically allocated numData and numCol arrays
2021-08-30T18:21:59 < mawk> but since the values are apparently known compile-time, use a template
2021-08-30T18:22:58 < mawk> think about it Mangy_Dog , what would be sizeof(numScroll) ?
2021-08-30T18:23:01 < mawk> it needs to be constant
2021-08-30T18:23:11 < mawk> if you have VLA arrays inside it cannot be constant
2021-08-30T18:25:18 < Mangy_Dog> but i though memory was allocated when an object was created?
2021-08-30T18:25:24 < Mangy_Dog> not at compile time
2021-08-30T18:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> which is why im thinking there must be a way to set that value when the obect is created
2021-08-30T18:27:58 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2021-08-30T18:28:05 < Mangy_Dog> im declaring my class wrong arent i
2021-08-30T18:34:27 < Mangy_Dog> the thing is im not wantting to create a vector or dynamic array size
2021-08-30T18:34:36 < Mangy_Dog> its set when the class object is created
2021-08-30T18:34:41 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-08-30T18:43:13 < mawk> yes
2021-08-30T18:43:33 < mawk> you can't have a dynamic size class like this Mangy_Dog 
2021-08-30T18:43:36 < mawk> use a template
2021-08-30T18:43:45 < Mangy_Dog> whats a template?
2021-08-30T18:43:56 < mawk> this is C++ right?
2021-08-30T18:44:02 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-08-30T18:44:07 < Mangy_Dog> ive not heard fo a template before
2021-08-30T18:44:11 < mawk> so a C++ template
2021-08-30T18:44:12 < mawk> ah
2021-08-30T18:44:19 < mawk> well it's a big part of the C++ language
2021-08-30T18:44:29 < mawk> it doesn't require stdlib so you can use it here
2021-08-30T18:44:58 < mawk> you put template <size_t someShit> before the class keyword
2021-08-30T18:45:27 < mawk> then you use the class as YourClass<42>
2021-08-30T18:45:42 < mawk> and someShit will have value 42 inside the class definition
2021-08-30T18:45:49 < mawk> and you can use it for array size
2021-08-30T18:45:58 < mawk> since someShit will be a compile time constant
2021-08-30T18:46:27 < Mangy_Dog> Its not a dynamic size though
2021-08-30T18:46:30 < Mangy_Dog> its a fixed size
2021-08-30T18:46:36 < Mangy_Dog> just set when the class is created
2021-08-30T18:46:44 < Mangy_Dog> i really dont see why that should be so difficult
2021-08-30T18:46:44 < qyx> templates are like goto
2021-08-30T18:46:57  * qyx hides
2021-08-30T18:47:36 < Mangy_Dog> i dont want to resize an array
2021-08-30T18:47:43 < Mangy_Dog> i just want to set the size when i create the class object
2021-08-30T18:47:47 < mawk> it's dynamic
2021-08-30T18:47:50 < Mangy_Dog> like you sould any other array
2021-08-30T18:47:50 < mawk> it's not fixed
2021-08-30T18:47:59 < mawk> what is the size of the class?
2021-08-30T18:48:09 < mawk> the size of your class cannot be known at compile time
2021-08-30T18:48:16 < mawk> therefore, not fixed
2021-08-30T18:48:32 < Mangy_Dog> again
2021-08-30T18:48:38 < mawk> what is sizeof(numScroll) ?
2021-08-30T18:48:45 < Mangy_Dog> how is that any different to creating an array within a function? or in global?
2021-08-30T18:48:57 < mawk> an array within a function is a special case
2021-08-30T18:49:00 < mawk> it's called a VLA
2021-08-30T18:49:10 < mawk> it works for arrays allocated on the stack
2021-08-30T18:49:14 < mawk> but that's it
2021-08-30T18:49:17 < mawk> it doesn't work for classes
2021-08-30T18:49:27 < mawk> because classes have global definitions, they need a fixed size
2021-08-30T18:49:34 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-08-30T18:49:35 < mawk> you can't have a class of unknown size
2021-08-30T18:49:49 < mawk> how would you pass an instance of the class to a function?
2021-08-30T18:49:51 < mawk> you can't
2021-08-30T18:50:19 < Mangy_Dog> the same way as youd pass any varable
2021-08-30T18:50:37 < mawk> so what would the compiler do, put the variable on the stack?
2021-08-30T18:50:42 < mawk> but what size is the variable?
2021-08-30T18:50:57 < mawk> the compiler needs to know the size to allocate the space on the stack for the argument
2021-08-30T18:50:59 < Mangy_Dog> again what size is a array
2021-08-30T18:51:02 < Mangy_Dog> an
2021-08-30T18:51:09 < mawk> you don't pass arrays to functions
2021-08-30T18:51:12 < mawk> you pass pointers
2021-08-30T18:51:18 < Mangy_Dog> ok fair
2021-08-30T18:51:26 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say you create them
2021-08-30T18:51:26 < mawk> but you can pass class instances to functions
2021-08-30T18:51:32 < Mangy_Dog> myarray[10]
2021-08-30T18:51:39 < Mangy_Dog> why cant i ahve it myclass[10]
2021-08-30T18:51:42 < Mangy_Dog> or something
2021-08-30T18:51:46 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2021-08-30T18:51:47 < mawk> use a template
2021-08-30T18:51:47 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-08-30T18:51:51 < mawk> that's exactly what it's for
2021-08-30T18:52:05 < Mangy_Dog> not mylcass[10] dont want to create 10 instances of the class ill fast run out of memory :p 
2021-08-30T18:52:19 < mawk> template <size_t size> class C { char array[size]; };
2021-08-30T18:52:25 < mawk> like this
2021-08-30T18:52:38 < mawk> then you instantiate like C<50> myVariable;
2021-08-30T18:53:03 < mawk> read up a bit on templates first
2021-08-30T18:53:28 < Mangy_Dog> its the scrolling effect in one of my UIs... i need to make it a bit more transportable 
2021-08-30T18:53:42 < mawk> templates are standard C++
2021-08-30T18:53:47 < Mangy_Dog> i just want to change the size of how much data is being stored when i create each instance
2021-08-30T18:53:49 < mawk> why is it not transportable?
2021-08-30T18:54:00 < mawk> use a dynamic array then
2021-08-30T18:54:13 < Mangy_Dog> cant do that in mcu level stuff
2021-08-30T18:54:18 < Mangy_Dog> thats limited to full size pcs
2021-08-30T18:54:21 < mawk> what's not transportable about templates?
2021-08-30T18:54:28 < mawk> no, that's not limited to that
2021-08-30T18:54:33 < mawk> nothing forbids you to use malloc
2021-08-30T18:54:39 < mawk> or even your own little heap 
2021-08-30T18:54:52 < mawk> anyway you don't have a choice
2021-08-30T18:54:58 < mawk> you can't have VLAs in class body
2021-08-30T18:57:10 -!- tct_ is now known as tct
2021-08-30T18:58:39 < mawk> a template is exactly what you need for 175347 <Mangy_Dog> i just want to change the size of how much data is being stored when i create each instance
2021-08-30T18:58:49 < mawk> then each instance can have a different size
2021-08-30T18:58:59 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-08-30T18:59:07 < Mangy_Dog> im trying to reat up on templates
2021-08-30T18:59:10 < Mangy_Dog> read
2021-08-30T18:59:38 < mawk> they don't need special support from the stdlib, and they don't incur real runtime cost
2021-08-30T18:59:40 < mawk> so it's all good
2021-08-30T19:00:23 < ventyl> mawk: I am reading into vector and then copying data into string. not effective, but who cares. Dynamically resizing buffer would probably be of similar overhead.
2021-08-30T19:00:34 < ventyl> and I am limited to C++11 due to gcc 4.something
2021-08-30T19:00:43 < ventyl> there isn't even full C++11 ABI
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2021-08-30T19:03:34 < Mangy_Dog> mawk https://pastebin.com/xT4JaA60
2021-08-30T19:03:40 < Mangy_Dog> this is the current class in full
2021-08-30T19:04:03 < Mangy_Dog> im reading on templates but im still confused how to use it
2021-08-30T19:04:34 < Mangy_Dog> currently numdata and numcol is set to 15 as a fixed maximum and im just using lineNum to set how much of it to use... but
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2021-08-30T19:04:48 < Mangy_Dog> how do i use a template to make that 15 a number that can be set when i create the object?
2021-08-30T19:05:10 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@161.97.231.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-08-30T19:05:20 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: prepend it by template <int T>
2021-08-30T19:05:26 < ventyl> and then use T in place of 15
2021-08-30T19:05:41 < ventyl> but there's a gotcha! each template instance is a type on it's own
2021-08-30T19:06:19 < Mangy_Dog> so id have to make multiple class declirations for each different type?
2021-08-30T19:06:23 < Mangy_Dog> thats no good
2021-08-30T19:06:43 < ventyl> nope
2021-08-30T19:07:03 < ventyl> you'll have your template <int T> class numScroll { .... }
2021-08-30T19:08:00 < ventyl> and when you instance the class, you'll instance it like numScroll<X> variable(); where X is intended value in place of 15
2021-08-30T19:08:10 < ventyl> I might have syntax wrong, but you can research this on your own
2021-08-30T19:08:30 < ventyl> the trick is, that you can't create, let's say std::vector<numScroll>
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2021-08-30T19:27:51 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/881938256797790229/unknown.png
2021-08-30T19:27:56 < Mangy_Dog> so how am i meant to declare this?
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2021-08-30T19:47:01 < tct> why sharing screenshots instead of pastes?
2021-08-30T19:47:03 < tct> this is PITA
2021-08-30T19:47:39 < steve__> zyp that is a good idea (generate the .bin), atleast for flash but RAM info is important too.  I think I can make a tool that knows the bounds of memory regions and can scan and add everything up.  ventyl can you give an example of such mangling that would complicate this?
2021-08-30T19:47:52 < tct> from what I can see: I´d say create a constructor for numScrol which accepts an initializer list so you can just do numScroll scroll1 = {109, 28, 140, ... }
2021-08-30T19:49:04 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-08-30T19:49:08 < tct> Mangy_Dog, ^
2021-08-30T19:51:41 < Mangy_Dog> tct i did post a pastebin of the whole class
2021-08-30T19:52:00 < tct> ok
2021-08-30T19:52:32 < Mangy_Dog> what do you mean create a constructor?
2021-08-30T19:52:46 < Mangy_Dog>  numScroll(uint16_t _x, uint16_t _y, uint8_t _digitNum)//, uint8_t _lineNum)  was it i thought
2021-08-30T19:52:52 < Mangy_Dog> but that wasnt valid
2021-08-30T19:53:11 < tct> I have zero idea what youŕe doing / what you want but from the last screenshot line 276 it would seem like you want to create an object of type numScroll and initialize it with a bunch of static data. Initializer lists are your friend.
2021-08-30T19:53:47 < tct> also, don´t use #defines in (modern) C++. Use stuff like constexpr, static or whatever is suitable.
2021-08-30T19:54:00 < mawk> tct: Mangy_Dog wants to do a VLA inside the class definition
2021-08-30T19:54:05 < mawk> which is super mega forbidden
2021-08-30T19:54:09 < tct> oh lol
2021-08-30T19:54:16 < Mangy_Dog> i dont want to do vlas though
2021-08-30T19:54:17 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-08-30T19:54:17 < mawk> so I suggested a template instead
2021-08-30T19:54:20 < Mangy_Dog> i keep saying that
2021-08-30T19:54:35 < mawk> yes you do, VLA is exactly the dynamic-sized array you wanted to do
2021-08-30T19:54:36 < Mangy_Dog> the array size is fixed within the instance of the class
2021-08-30T19:54:42 < mawk> ..within the instance
2021-08-30T19:54:44 < Mangy_Dog> not dynamically changing within the instance
2021-08-30T19:54:44 < mawk> so it's not fixed
2021-08-30T19:54:46 < mawk> so it's a VLA
2021-08-30T19:54:51 < mawk> it doesn't matter if it's not dynamically changing
2021-08-30T19:54:55 < mawk> VLA isn't dynamically changing either
2021-08-30T19:55:07 < tct> Mangy_Dog, is the template parameter the size of the array? If so, you probably want to use std::size_t instead.
2021-08-30T19:55:09 < mawk> what matters is that the size isn't fixed a tcompile time
2021-08-30T19:55:14 < Mangy_Dog> vectors are dynamically changing
2021-08-30T19:55:14 < tct> (if this is STL crappery)
2021-08-30T19:55:21 < Mangy_Dog> reszizing an array
2021-08-30T19:55:25 < mawk> this is not about vector or resizing
2021-08-30T19:55:32 < mawk> the size isn't fixed at compile time
2021-08-30T19:55:52 < mawk> you could do numScroll(user_input()); and have the user input something random at runtime
2021-08-30T19:56:02 < mawk> that's not fixed at compile time
2021-08-30T19:56:21 < mawk> so, it's not allowed; classes have to have a fixed size at the time of their definition
2021-08-30T19:56:46 < mawk> template is the only answer
2021-08-30T19:57:01 < Mangy_Dog> but would that end up doubling the code at compile?
2021-08-30T19:57:01 < mawk> or stop using classes
2021-08-30T19:57:05 < mawk> why?
2021-08-30T19:57:08 < mawk> no
2021-08-30T19:57:40 < mawk> the code would be the regular size; template is just like macro
2021-08-30T19:58:08 < mawk> a class template is like a class macro, you can define template parameters that will be replaced by actual numbers at compile time
2021-08-30T19:58:09 < Mangy_Dog> im really strugglign to understand why an array size has to be identical in each instance of the class.... its just a array...
2021-08-30T19:58:24 < mawk> the class has to be fixed size, Mangy_Dog 
2021-08-30T19:58:29 < mawk> do you agree?
2021-08-30T19:58:30 < tct> templates are basically just a glorified copy-paste code generator with placeholders (templates is a very good, self explaining name actually). The compiler will just generate code from you whenever you use a template.
2021-08-30T19:58:42 < Mangy_Dog> so yes
2021-08-30T19:58:47 < Mangy_Dog> it would just double the code 
2021-08-30T19:58:48 < mawk> so yes what
2021-08-30T19:58:50 < mawk> ?
2021-08-30T19:58:51 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-30T19:58:54 < mawk> no, it wouldn't
2021-08-30T19:59:05 < Mangy_Dog> what TCT just said, says as much
2021-08-30T19:59:10 < mawk> no, that doesn't say that
2021-08-30T19:59:21 < mawk> you're not in the place of saying what templates do or don't do lol you just learnt about them 20 minutes ago
2021-08-30T19:59:36 < Mangy_Dog> its liturally what he just said
2021-08-30T19:59:39 < mawk> the code size won't change
2021-08-30T19:59:43 < mawk> no, that's not what he said
2021-08-30T19:59:51 < mawk> templates don't multiply your code size
2021-08-30T20:00:08 < Mangy_Dog> <tct> templates are basically just a glorified copy-paste code generator with placeholders (templates is a very good, self explaining name actually). The compiler will just generate code from you whenever you use a template.
2021-08-30T20:00:12 < Mangy_Dog> copy and paste
2021-08-30T20:00:15 < Mangy_Dog> macro
2021-08-30T20:00:16 < mawk> it's an image
2021-08-30T20:00:18 < mawk> for you to understand
2021-08-30T20:00:29 < mawk> it has nothing to do with the final binary size
2021-08-30T20:00:39 < mawk> nor it has anything to do with the code you will read and write in the .cc file
2021-08-30T20:01:03 < mawk> the code you will write has the same size as the invalid code you wanted to write
2021-08-30T20:01:41 < mawk> anyway you don't have a choice, either you use templates or you stop using classes
2021-08-30T20:01:50 < mawk> classes have to be fixed size, there is no way around that
2021-08-30T20:02:06 < mawk> all instances of a same class have to refer to the same definition, with the same size
2021-08-30T20:02:18 < mawk> they have to have the same memory layout
2021-08-30T20:02:24 < mawk> there's no way around that
2021-08-30T20:02:59 < Mangy_Dog> fine templates.... so i added the template decliration before the class.... how do i now create my object?
2021-08-30T20:03:06 < Mangy_Dog> numScroll scroll1 = numScroll(251, 52, 6); being hte old way
2021-08-30T20:03:24 < mawk> numScroll<template parameters go here> scroll1;
2021-08-30T20:03:38 < Mangy_Dog> doesnt work
2021-08-30T20:03:47 < mawk> that's not very descriptive
2021-08-30T20:04:15 < Steffanx> mawk doesnt work <= very descriptive.
2021-08-30T20:04:19 < mawk> lol
2021-08-30T20:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> missing template argument before ( token
2021-08-30T20:04:27 < Mangy_Dog> numScroll<10> scroll1 = numScroll(251, 52, 6);
2021-08-30T20:04:32 < mawk> well what are the template parameters you've defined Mangy_Dog ?
2021-08-30T20:04:55 < mawk> you didn't do what I said Mangy_Dog 
2021-08-30T20:05:07 < mawk> you replaced all occurences of numScroll by numScroll<10>
2021-08-30T20:05:14 < mawk> you need to replace all occurences of numScroll by numScroll<10> *
2021-08-30T20:05:21 < mawk> numScroll<10> scroll1 = numScroll<10>(251, 52, 6);
2021-08-30T20:05:30 < mawk> but that's ugly, use a new-style constructor
2021-08-30T20:05:37 < mawk> numScroll<10> scroll1{251, 52, 6};
2021-08-30T20:06:10 < Mangy_Dog> new style constructor?
2021-08-30T20:07:25 < mawk> with {}
2021-08-30T20:07:26 < mawk> nevermind
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2021-08-30T20:08:18 < mawk> you can use auto to not repeat the type
2021-08-30T20:08:34 < mawk> auto scroll1 = numScroll<10>(251, 52, 6);
2021-08-30T20:08:52 < mawk> so you get it Mangy_Dog , you need to replace all occurences of the class name by numScroll<10> now
2021-08-30T20:08:59 < mawk> because numScroll<10> is the class
2021-08-30T20:09:05 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2021-08-30T20:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> i get that much
2021-08-30T20:09:15 < mawk> numScroll alone is the name of the template
2021-08-30T20:09:16 < Mangy_Dog> its compiling and working
2021-08-30T20:09:54 < Mangy_Dog> id still like to know how you setup the "new style" constructor though
2021-08-30T20:10:45 < mawk> well you know you can do Class obj(1, 2, 3);
2021-08-30T20:10:51 < mawk> instead of Class obj = Class(1, 2, 3);
2021-08-30T20:11:02 < Mangy_Dog> thats what id like to do
2021-08-30T20:11:11 < tct> or Class obj = { ... }
2021-08-30T20:11:12 < mawk> well the first form is ambiguous in some cases, because it can look like a function prototype
2021-08-30T20:11:16 < mawk> so you use { } instead of ( )
2021-08-30T20:11:22 < mawk> yes tct but that has special semantics in some cases
2021-08-30T20:11:28 < tct> mawk, I´m aware :p
2021-08-30T20:11:31 < mawk> C++ is annoying with all the edge cases
2021-08-30T20:11:33 < mawk> that's why I do C
2021-08-30T20:11:41 < tct> mawk, these days one would be doing  Class obj{ }; as you mentioned
2021-08-30T20:11:49 < mawk> it's never ambiguous, always does what it says
2021-08-30T20:12:42 < Steffanx> mawk also always does as he says?
2021-08-30T20:12:56 < mawk> yes Steffanx always
2021-08-30T20:13:01 < mawk> you can ask my mother
2021-08-30T20:14:26 < Steffanx> ill ask your brother
2021-08-30T20:14:33 < mawk> :(
2021-08-30T20:15:07 < tct> ask me.
2021-08-30T20:16:31 < Steffanx> so does he brother tct?
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2021-08-30T20:17:53 < Steffanx> Welcome brother rob235
2021-08-30T20:18:08 < tct> omg I forgot about rob
2021-08-30T20:19:08 < Steffanx> How can you forget about ginger rob?
2021-08-30T20:20:13 < tct> I never really got who he is
2021-08-30T20:20:15 < tct> what he does
2021-08-30T20:20:24 < tct> I think for a few years I even thought he was r2com
2021-08-30T20:38:59 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-08-30T20:39:07 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-08-30T20:59:09 < mawk> who's rob235
2021-08-30T20:59:11 < mawk> tell me Steffanx 
2021-08-30T21:09:01 < Steffanx> The mask.
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2021-08-30T21:21:30 < ventyl> hm, r2com, i haven't heard any whining lately. is he okay?
2021-08-30T21:21:40 < ventyl> or is it just me not paying enough attention?
2021-08-30T21:21:54 < Steffanx> He did a rage quit after jpa- bullied him
2021-08-30T21:22:26 < ventyl> how long will it last?
2021-08-30T21:28:04 < mawk> he still hangs out in the offtopic channel ventyl 
2021-08-30T21:28:12 < mawk> but even cracki doesn't really like him
2021-08-30T21:28:12 < mawk> lol
2021-08-30T21:29:14 < qyx> cracki is not that hardcore
2021-08-30T21:29:33 < mawk> you say that because you haven't listened closely enough
2021-08-30T21:33:10 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has quit []
2021-08-30T21:33:33 < Steffanx> Offtopic on freenode mawk
2021-08-30T21:33:35 < Steffanx> ?
2021-08-30T21:33:36 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-08-30T21:33:51 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2021-08-30T21:33:51 -!- xnand was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [xnand]
2021-08-30T21:33:58 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2021-08-30T21:34:01 < mawk> no here
2021-08-30T21:34:43 < qyx> oh, how was the harvest day, did you have a good day, englishman?
2021-08-30T21:34:50 < englishman> omg yes
2021-08-30T21:34:54 < qyx> :>
2021-08-30T21:35:24 < englishman> zucchini, tomatoes, garlic, onions, carrots, peppers
2021-08-30T21:35:36 < englishman> basically eating tabbouleh all week
2021-08-30T21:35:58 < Steffanx> Great..
2021-08-30T21:35:58 < qyx> carrots?
2021-08-30T21:36:05 < qyx> isn't it too late for them?
2021-08-30T21:36:28 < englishman> no we harvest them right into december / jan or whenever we can't find them under the snow
2021-08-30T21:36:37 < englishman> and the ones we don't find make seeds the 2nd year
2021-08-30T21:37:10 < qyx> hm, haven't seen that here
2021-08-30T21:37:48 < mawk> tabouleh is good
2021-08-30T21:37:55 < mawk> I'm proud of you englishman 
2021-08-30T21:38:11 < mawk> you're not eating disgusting food and you're not french
2021-08-30T21:38:16 < englishman> of course i dont have any pix, just cat pix
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2021-08-30T22:37:25 < srk> sorta https://github.githubassets.com/images/email/welcome-email/welcometocat.png
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2021-08-30T22:58:33 < kakium69> evening69
2021-08-30T22:59:33 < englishman> hello kaku
2021-08-30T23:00:10 < qyx> have you ever seen a FO LC connector cable gland?
2021-08-30T23:00:18 < kakium69> kakukaku
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2021-08-30T23:01:31 < qyx> oh googlol knows https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61CQ+hJROHL._AC_SX450_.jpg
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2021-08-30T23:06:44 < kakium69> did laurencer join?
2021-08-30T23:07:08 < Steffanx> i tried to ask for you but... no luck kakium69
2021-08-30T23:07:15 < kakium69> he was here?
2021-08-30T23:07:38 < Steffanx> si señor
2021-08-30T23:08:36 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmdcsDLHnqQ
2021-08-30T23:10:05 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326447-arm-china-seizes-ip-relaunches-as-an-independent-company  errrrrr
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2021-08-30T23:16:09 < kakium69> I just wonder
2021-08-30T23:16:14 < kakium69> how it took so long
2021-08-30T23:16:34 < kakium69> everything they build in china has arm core
2021-08-30T23:17:31 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2021-08-30T23:20:08 < kakium69> but apparently ARM china is totally separate company
2021-08-30T23:20:10 < kakium69> ?
2021-08-30T23:20:27 < kakium69> with their own IP and projects and shiet
2021-08-30T23:20:38 < kakium69> explain Mangy_Dog
2021-08-30T23:21:15 < Mangy_Dog> is it though?
2021-08-30T23:21:41 < Mangy_Dog> i thought ARM was the main company and the chiniese company was basically... a broker of the lisences for the local fabs
2021-08-30T23:21:55 < Mangy_Dog> while also developing lisences
2021-08-30T23:22:55 < kakium69> so they have the whole ARM ip?
2021-08-30T23:23:17 < Mangy_Dog> theyd least have the techincal documents
2021-08-30T23:23:54 < mawk> can I debug a nucleo-32 with an external stlink/jlink ?????
2021-08-30T23:24:11 < mawk> I think I can but I have to break the builtin stlink and mess up a bunch of solder bridges
2021-08-30T23:24:12 < mawk> annoying
2021-08-30T23:24:15 < kakium69> why not
2021-08-30T23:25:06 < kakium69> you mean jumper footprints meant to be cut with carpetry knife?
2021-08-30T23:27:41 < kakium69> ah they have break line for the board
2021-08-30T23:28:02 < kakium69> I had one NXP dev board
2021-08-30T23:28:20 < kakium69> I cut the debugger off with dremel disk cutter
2021-08-30T23:28:54 < kakium69> mawk: if debugger has buffers
2021-08-30T23:29:08 < kakium69> then you might possibly can just connect another debugger
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2021-08-30T23:30:04 < Laurenceb> >Did you solve your lunix CAN issue?
2021-08-30T23:30:25 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: yeah it was the simulink board at the other end being weird
2021-08-30T23:30:43 < Laurenceb> then Lunix giving weird errors due to the mad behaviour
2021-08-30T23:31:01 < kakium69> no need to rewrite driver?
2021-08-30T23:31:04 < Laurenceb> Lunix board was talking to a custom board made by the other team that runs simulink
2021-08-30T23:31:38 < Laurenceb> nah the driver is good enough I guess, but it would help if there were more error codes and they were  more clear
2021-08-30T23:32:56 < kakium69> make lunix the bestest by adding some error codes
2021-08-30T23:33:52 < Steffanx> Ah lol Laurenceb 
2021-08-30T23:36:47 < Laurenceb> I expected the simulink codez to work, apparently not
2021-08-30T23:37:00 < Laurenceb> which makes it even more of an insane choice
2021-08-30T23:37:04 < kakium69> lunix was without fault after all
2021-08-30T23:40:48 < ventyl> fucking
2021-08-30T23:40:50 < ventyl> simulink
2021-08-30T23:40:54 < Laurenceb> lunix is less fail than simulink
2021-08-30T23:41:06 < ventyl> i hate it so much
2021-08-30T23:41:28 < Laurenceb> heh the other team make the board at the other end of the can
2021-08-30T23:41:31 < Laurenceb> not my problem
2021-08-30T23:41:52 < ventyl> they tend to use simulink to model software at automotive
2021-08-30T23:42:16 < ventyl> stupid voltage monitor w/ voltage dip detection can very easilly occupy half of available flash
2021-08-30T23:42:58 < ventyl> with ADAS they soon realized, that if they generate their shitty software from simulink models using targetlink, they soon run out of MCUs having sufficient capacity of flash
2021-08-30T23:43:14 < ventyl> to now, they are employing people rewriting those shitty simulink models into C
2021-08-30T23:43:20 < ventyl> drone job
2021-08-30T23:43:47 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-08-30T23:44:10 < Laurenceb> their problem is current draw
2021-08-30T23:44:19 < ventyl> if it happens to you, that you have to rewrite some brain-dead model written by some senior model whatever specialist, which contains such exotic stuff as state machine defined by bit field with no protection against being in two states at one time...
2021-08-30T23:44:30 < ventyl> you can start snorting cocaine
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2021-08-30T23:45:22 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-08-30T23:45:41 < Laurenceb> they run cpu at 250MHz all the time with no sleep mode and all peripherals clocked
2021-08-30T23:45:50 < Laurenceb> then wonder why it is drawing a lot of power
2021-08-30T23:46:03 < Laurenceb> simulink doesnt support sleep modes properly
2021-08-30T23:46:18 < ventyl> i doubt simulink knows about sleep modes at all
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2021-08-30T23:46:51 < kakium69> simulink is MCU application?
2021-08-30T23:46:52 < ventyl> it probably relies on something like OSEK waitForEvent and sendEvent or Autosar RTE event handlers
2021-08-30T23:46:59 < ventyl> simulink is matlab module
2021-08-30T23:47:09 < ventyl> mostly for modeling of regulators & stuff
2021-08-30T23:47:46 < ventyl> if you push simulink model into targetlink, it will vomit extremely nasty unreadable and ineffective source code doing the same as does that simulink model
2021-08-30T23:48:23 < Laurenceb> now we have to shell out big bucks for a 40W approved high reliability DC-DC to power the whole system
2021-08-30T23:48:27 < ventyl> and I believe, that "we code in labview" kind of "developers" invented a way how to control MCU directly from simulink model without even compiling it as a native code
2021-08-30T23:49:29 < ventyl> Laurenceb: srsly, hypercraft is some kind of -motive, aren't you using any industry standard solutions?
2021-08-30T23:49:42 < ventyl> no Vektor stack, no dSpace tooling?
2021-08-30T23:49:59 < ventyl> no overpriced automotive certified passives?
2021-08-30T23:50:21 < Laurenceb> supposedly simulink is industry standard
2021-08-30T23:50:32 < Laurenceb> simulink runs on the traction controllers
2021-08-30T23:50:36 < ventyl> it is, but on top of either OSEK or Autosar
2021-08-30T23:50:58 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-08-30T23:51:10 < ventyl> nobody is stupid enough to run simulink bare metal
2021-08-30T23:51:11 < Laurenceb> I'm coding the raspberry pi that they all talk to over can
2021-08-30T23:51:13 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-08-30T23:51:18 < Laurenceb> thats what they are doing
2021-08-30T23:51:42 < ventyl> heh, OSEK is like... 11 "syscalls"
2021-08-30T23:52:11 < ventyl> and not really much more than that, it must run on PIC8
2021-08-30T23:53:11 < Laurenceb> off the shelf private LTE -> WAN box ->switch with passenger wifi coming off as well as raspberry pi -> can -> traction controllers
2021-08-30T23:54:28 < ventyl> does raspi control those traction controllers, or does it just provide telemetry capability?
2021-08-30T23:55:38 < Laurenceb> just telemetry and firmware upgrade over vpn connection
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2021-08-30T23:57:30 < ventyl> and what protocol does raspi talk to those traction controllers?
2021-08-30T23:57:31 < Laurenceb> supposedly the switch gives hardware level isolation so passengers cant hack stuff
2021-08-30T23:57:33 < ventyl> random binary garbage?
2021-08-30T23:57:36 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-08-30T23:57:43 < kakium69> is simulink overkill for traction control?
2021-08-30T23:57:58 < ventyl> so no ISO 14229-1?
2021-08-30T23:58:04 < Laurenceb> lolno
2021-08-30T23:58:32 < ventyl> why would you bother, if it is an off-the-shelf solution, right?
2021-08-30T23:59:18 < Laurenceb> I dunno.. its their "legacy format"
2021-08-30T23:59:50 < ventyl> are they a company from '90, so they can have any legacy format?
--- Day changed Tue Aug 31 2021
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2021-08-31T00:00:23 < ventyl> pretty much any legacy stuff vanished by 2010 and most of car makers is running OBD2/UDS duo
2021-08-31T00:00:37 < ventyl> latter usually with smaller/larger amount of company-specific hacks
2021-08-31T00:03:33 < Laurenceb> well the legacy system its based on was for trams
2021-08-31T00:04:08 < ventyl> that would probably be something based on canopen
2021-08-31T00:05:21 < kakium69> what is UDS?
2021-08-31T00:05:38 < kakium69> unified diagnosis system?
2021-08-31T00:06:17 < ventyl> yeah
2021-08-31T00:06:25 < ventyl> ISO 14229-1
2021-08-31T00:06:51 < kakium69> did I get it right?
2021-08-31T00:06:59 < ventyl> mostly
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2021-08-31T00:55:49 < Laurenceb> https://www.flightradar24.com/MOOSE94/28f87f57
2021-08-31T00:55:53 < Laurenceb> last one out
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2021-08-31T01:57:03 < mawk> tct: 
2021-08-31T01:57:04 < mawk> tct: 
2021-08-31T01:57:04 < mawk> tct: 
2021-08-31T01:57:15 < mawk> give me the spi touchscreen link back plz
2021-08-31T01:57:16 < mawk> plz plz
2021-08-31T01:57:25 < mawk> I don't have enough baklog
2021-08-31T01:58:37 < mawk> ah no nvm I found it
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2021-08-31T02:15:00 < qyx> hm STM32G491CCU6 mouser's stock is still increasing despite the fact I ordered 25 last week
2021-08-31T02:15:22 < qyx> it is one of the only two G4 available
2021-08-31T02:15:42 < qyx> have they managed to make it manufactured?
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2021-08-31T02:16:58 < qyx> ufbga169 H7 in stock too
2021-08-31T02:17:09 < qyx> others H7 are gone
2021-08-31T02:17:16 < qyx> ok, not all, 14 pieces left
2021-08-31T02:19:31 < qyx> F3, G0 gone
2021-08-31T02:20:45 < qyx> F7, F4 too
2021-08-31T02:21:39 < qyx> but lots of L0 in stock
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2021-08-31T02:26:22 < mawk> I heard the chip shortage is ending qyx 
2021-08-31T02:26:34 < qyx> yeah?
2021-08-31T02:27:00 < mawk> maybe not in the next days, but it's maybe normalized next year
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2021-08-31T02:27:33 < qyx> aha, and what am I going to do until next year comes?
2021-08-31T02:28:06 < mawk> hibernate like a marmot
2021-08-31T02:28:20 < qyx> no gd32 available either
2021-08-31T02:28:42 < mawk> there's a gd32 in my pulse oximeter
2021-08-31T02:29:03 < mawk> gd32 uart bootloader is mostly compatible with the one of st
2021-08-31T02:29:07 < mawk> it's weird
2021-08-31T02:30:17 < qyx> plenty of atmega8 in stock
2021-08-31T02:30:23 < mawk> noooooo
2021-08-31T02:30:32 < mawk> stay faithful
2021-08-31T02:30:50 < mawk> I have a rgb screen now, what kind of font I put in it?
2021-08-31T02:30:50 < qyx> other microchip parts too
2021-08-31T02:30:58 < qyx> minecraftia
2021-08-31T02:31:01 < mawk> I suppose some truetype shit with anti-aliasing so it's retty
2021-08-31T02:31:05 < mawk> pretty*
2021-08-31T02:31:17 < mawk> I mean what kind of font engine, I suppose I can't just use a bitmap font and expect it to be pretty
2021-08-31T02:31:33 < mawk> minecraftia as bitmap looks cool though
2021-08-31T02:32:46 < mawk> https://www.freetype.org/
2021-08-31T02:32:49 < mawk> I think I can use this thing
2021-08-31T02:32:54 < mawk> it looks pretty cool
2021-08-31T02:42:49 < qyx> fukit I am gonna use esp32
2021-08-31T02:43:21 < mawk> no
2021-08-31T02:43:27 < mawk> don't do that
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2021-08-31T12:44:58 < Laurenceb> muh turtle ships
2021-08-31T12:46:40 < Steffann> Are you still into Ninja Turtles?
2021-08-31T12:46:49 < Laurenceb> lolno
2021-08-31T12:50:59 -!- C-Man [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-31T13:04:16 < Laurenceb> loll incel hyperloop guy is marrying his mail order wife
2021-08-31T13:04:20 < Laurenceb> lulz
2021-08-31T13:04:22 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-31T13:05:25 < Laurenceb> disgenics
2021-08-31T13:10:10 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@15.1673005,120.587363,3a,16.1y,166.19h,85.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4sgVWDuQcr956lm1a26XaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
2021-08-31T13:11:17 < mouseghost> yaaawn hello, misters
2021-08-31T13:11:43 < Laurenceb> is that you on the photo?
2021-08-31T13:15:34 < Laurenceb> looks like how I imagine typical IRC users
2021-08-31T13:15:40 < mouseghost> what photo? Laurenceb
2021-08-31T13:15:46 < Laurenceb> streetview
2021-08-31T13:16:04 < Laurenceb> posting from hotel with three hookers lined up in a row
2021-08-31T13:16:36 < Laurenceb> the IRC lifestyle
2021-08-31T13:16:37 < mouseghost> lmao
2021-08-31T13:20:46 < jadew> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-collision-alerts-on-the-rise
2021-08-31T13:25:36 < Laurenceb> >getting the hookers to line up for their "job interview"
2021-08-31T13:26:31 < jadew> how do you know they're hookers?
2021-08-31T13:27:00 < jadew> They could be waiting for customers to walk them to their tables.
2021-08-31T13:27:05 < Laurenceb> lol you are so innocent
2021-08-31T13:33:26 < Laurenceb> kek the sign and tourists
2021-08-31T13:33:28 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@15.1668143,120.5849882,3a,20.1y,188.88h,85.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4rdINCfmbZNIq8QoAJCv-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
2021-08-31T13:33:35 < Laurenceb> sex pest central
2021-08-31T13:34:56 < ventyl> jadew: I'd expect that there will soon be a ban on another megaconstellation, at least in western world, that's why OneWeb desperately tried to save their FCC license
2021-08-31T13:35:26 < Laurenceb> ventyl: its all quite low altitude so should decay rapidly
2021-08-31T13:35:57 < ventyl> on the other side, low altitude means high velocity and very dense space occupied, among other stuff, by people
2021-08-31T13:36:32 < ventyl> high velocity will produce high velocity debris and ISS orbit isn't that far from those 500km-ish orbits
2021-08-31T13:37:16 < ventyl> also, i've been watching that long walkaround through texas site
2021-08-31T13:37:21 < ventyl> Musk looked scary there
2021-08-31T13:37:42 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-08-31T13:38:11 < Laurenceb> actually yeah wtf he has the frankenstein/warewolf body type
2021-08-31T13:38:23 < Laurenceb> really weird giant torso
2021-08-31T13:38:30 < specing> ventyl: no problem, they'll get permission in russia or france or china
2021-08-31T13:38:43 < ventyl> that, and also the sight of crazy man looking into infinity
2021-08-31T13:38:58 < Laurenceb> at least hes doing something useful
2021-08-31T13:39:00 < ventyl> he musta have been in some kind of trance
2021-08-31T13:39:20 < Laurenceb> he treats his workers like shit, but at least hes not Bezos or Branson
2021-08-31T13:39:29 < Laurenceb> or.. Ellison
2021-08-31T13:39:34 < ventyl> well, they have results. I assume that rocket launch is something, which simply cannot be faked.
2021-08-31T13:39:48 < ventyl> we'll see if their results are good or bad later
2021-08-31T13:40:18 < karlp> mawk: why would you _want_ to debug a nuc32 with external debug tools?
2021-08-31T13:40:31 < karlp> you'll definitely be into solder bridges and hacking territory, not a lot of space on those boards.
2021-08-31T13:41:00 < jadew> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/869794549667627051/880442404220600320/0xtdvynie6c71.jpg
2021-08-31T13:41:01 < ventyl> specing: that might be useless if you don't get permission to run ground radio equipment anywhere in the western world
2021-08-31T13:41:22 < ventyl> maybe not in case of china. but china will take care of this on their own
2021-08-31T13:41:45 < Laurenceb> kek Michael Jackson Musk
2021-08-31T13:43:11 < specing> ventyl: is that permission tied to a permission for having a constellation?
2021-08-31T13:43:28 < ventyl> specing: no, but in fact it is
2021-08-31T13:43:38 < specing> hmm
2021-08-31T13:44:01 < ventyl> you may have problem to launch it from US by US rocket
2021-08-31T13:44:20 < ventyl> then you'll be left with Soyuz and whatever chineese / indian rocket you'll be able to source
2021-08-31T13:46:04 < jadew> They should only allow geosynchronous satellites
2021-08-31T13:46:14 < jadew> and have them all fly over Musk's house
2021-08-31T13:46:20 < ventyl> I'd also expect, that US involves into starlink building and they order separation of starlink from spacex
2021-08-31T13:46:56 < ventyl> their position is extremely unfair, while spacex lets their competition to pay for rocket construction and then uses it hapilly essentially for free
2021-08-31T13:48:36 < jadew> spacex is not publicly traded?
2021-08-31T13:48:43 < ventyl> nope
2021-08-31T13:48:52 < jadew> that would be a fun stock to watch
2021-08-31T13:49:14 < jadew> people would watch the launches with the mouse over the close position button
2021-08-31T13:49:27 < ventyl> i assume that any IPO of space-oriented company, which already reached orbit is a good long-term investition
2021-08-31T13:49:38 < jadew> whoever sees the explosion first, gets to keep his money
2021-08-31T13:49:44 < ventyl> :D
2021-08-31T13:50:49 < ventyl> this can be proven, RocketLab is publicly traded since this August. if this effect exists, then it must be observable by amount of people watching live broadcasts of launches
2021-08-31T13:51:43 < jadew> my broker doesn't have them
2021-08-31T13:52:33 < jadew> what a stupid title: "Now, August is good for stocks"
2021-08-31T13:52:47 < jadew> they published it today
2021-08-31T13:52:56 < jadew> at the end of August...
2021-08-31T13:53:03 < jadew> great forecasting bro
2021-08-31T13:53:51 < jadew> can't find rocketlab on yahoo finance either
2021-08-31T13:55:14 < ventyl> that doesn't surprise me
2021-08-31T13:55:37 < ventyl> banks are probably the worst functioning institution in the world, even worse than government offices of most countries in the world
2021-08-31T13:56:27 < jpa-> which banks?
2021-08-31T13:57:27 < jpa-> jadew: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RKLB/
2021-08-31T13:57:36 < ventyl> all of them
2021-08-31T13:57:42 < jadew> their search sucks
2021-08-31T13:57:45 < ventyl> essentially, probably the whole financial bussiness
2021-08-31T13:57:48 < jadew> thanks
2021-08-31T13:57:59 < jpa-> yahoo has never managed to make a decent search :)
2021-08-31T13:58:15 < jpa-> ventyl: in what way does every bank suck?
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2021-08-31T13:58:36 < jadew> oh, they've been publicly traded only since November
2021-08-31T13:59:00 < jpa-> jadew: only few days as rocketlab https://www.barrons.com/articles/rocket-lab-spac-listing-nasdaq-51629898019
2021-08-31T14:01:48 < ventyl> jpa-: they are extremely rigid (as un-flexible) lacking behind common needs
2021-08-31T14:01:53 < jadew> they had a failure in May, but the stock didn't go down much lower than it already was
2021-08-31T14:02:09 < jpa-> ventyl: which needs?
2021-08-31T14:02:54 < ventyl> jpa-: it could be commonly named as meaningful services, probably
2021-08-31T14:02:57 < jadew> needs that require flexibility
2021-08-31T14:03:15 < ventyl> like, locally, it was impossible to obtain virtual debit card in meaningful way up until recently
2021-08-31T14:03:37 < jpa-> sounds like a problem with your bank, not every bank
2021-08-31T14:03:49 < ventyl> they instead offered bullshit services, one which would be completely useless if it was possilble to get virtual one immediately
2021-08-31T14:03:50 < jadew> what's a virtual debit card?
2021-08-31T14:03:57 < jadew> why can't you get a real one?
2021-08-31T14:04:11 < jpa-> jadew: basically one-time-use prepaid card number
2021-08-31T14:04:16 < jpa-> to combat card fraud
2021-08-31T14:04:18 < jadew> ah
2021-08-31T14:04:20 < jadew> neat
2021-08-31T14:04:21 < ventyl> jadew: essentially just a number working as credit card number bound to an account with separately configurable limit
2021-08-31T14:04:40 < ventyl> which you can obtain and dispose of quickly
2021-08-31T14:04:55 < ventyl> jpa-: that was just an example I could come up from the top of my head
2021-08-31T14:05:32 < jpa-> ventyl: so you barely come up with one example, yet are convinved that each bank on the planet is *the* worst functioning institution?
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2021-08-31T14:06:31 < jadew> local banks are like taxis... soon to be replaced by Uber, Lyft and anyone else willing to do a better job and disregard regulations
2021-08-31T14:07:41 < jpa-> maybe for small transactions like buying crap online
2021-08-31T14:07:59 < jadew> well, I prefer Wise for big transactions too
2021-08-31T14:08:12 < jadew> because they're cheap
2021-08-31T14:08:14 < jpa-> like, for getting a mortgage and buying a house?
2021-08-31T14:08:21 < ventyl> jpa-: i could come up with others, what about clearing time. it's 2021, it can't take hours to send moneyz
2021-08-31T14:08:42 < jadew> jpa-, don't know about that
2021-08-31T14:08:57 < qyx> jpa-: I experienced 3 banks, 2 of them 1. have bugs in their apps or internet banking affecting functionality, 2. you are unable to get the thing done (tm) (paperwork, neet to visit the office, etc) 3. high fees while they are constantly generating earnings 4. process errors, like losing your re-issued cards, etc. 5. misunderstanding of high availability which is essential for banks (random outages), etc etc
2021-08-31T14:09:32 < qyx> and what ventyl says, why the hell could they not send money in minutes and you have to wait until next business day
2021-08-31T14:09:51 < jadew> right, that's the worst thing
2021-08-31T14:10:26 < jpa-> yeah, the slow transfers are a real problem
2021-08-31T14:10:31 < jadew> they're built on top of an old system and the processes put in place are from the old world
2021-08-31T14:10:40 < jpa-> if that was fixed, we wouldn't need all this credit card crap anyway
2021-08-31T14:10:42 < qyx> jpa-: one bank reissued my credit card 3 times, it was lost 3 times, they were not able to deliver it by post office, neither to a close by bank office
2021-08-31T14:10:50 < jpa-> just pay the bill and the order gets released within minutes
2021-08-31T14:10:53 < ventyl> then, this year I obtained credit card. I asked if it can pay itself automatically, if there is enough money to do so. So I don't have to go and click "Pay credit card" once a month. Yes, there is such service, it costs 10 EUR per month.
2021-08-31T14:10:54 < qyx> and when I asked, they were not even able to tell me where the card is
2021-08-31T14:11:02 < qyx> (meanwhile the old one expired so I was unable to pay)
2021-08-31T14:11:22 < ventyl> i told the guy in bank office to tell the guy who invented that fee to go fuck himself
2021-08-31T14:12:50 < ventyl> we could go deeper with credit card industry itself, which is inherently insecure
2021-08-31T14:13:14 < qyx> the problem with our banks is probably well defined by "a corporate accessible by common people"
2021-08-31T14:13:24 < ventyl> it is only patched by shitworx, like 3d secure instead overhauling it and make it secure by design
2021-08-31T14:13:34 < qyx> corporations are all fukd up but hardly anybody is able to see it
2021-08-31T14:13:59 < qyx> but banks are examples of corporations providing service to common people
2021-08-31T14:14:07 < qyx> not to other corporations as is mostly common
2021-08-31T14:14:29 < qyx> so all this shit is unveiled and visible
2021-08-31T14:14:39 < srk> they diguise it as a service for common people to make money on liquidity provided by them :)
2021-08-31T14:14:46 < ventyl> well, common people are not of an interest of banks
2021-08-31T14:15:19 < qyx> no, hence they have no importance and no willingness to solve their problems
2021-08-31T14:15:23 < mouseghost> hello gays
2021-08-31T14:15:27 < srk> sup
2021-08-31T14:16:02 < qyx> 13:14 < qyx> not to other corporations as is mostly common
2021-08-31T14:16:06 < qyx> I meant "not only to.."
2021-08-31T14:33:58 -!- C-Man [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2021-08-31T14:35:27 < Laurenceb> maybe I should travel to the Philippines to become a sex offender
2021-08-31T14:36:48 < karlp> maybe you should keep those plans inside your head?
2021-08-31T14:37:15 < Laurenceb> lol
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2021-08-31T15:14:45 < con3> So I'm looking at writing a custom bootloader for the stm32. Will most likely use the CAN peripheral, but wanted to check whether anyone had some good resources on understanding the startup process and coding of said bootloader :3
2021-08-31T15:18:05 < ventyl> probably nothing special. you'll modify linker script so the bootloader is linked where it belongs (if even applicable) and then just before you jump into application, you have to put MCU into some known good state (register values, cortex state and probably can peripheral)
2021-08-31T15:21:38 < karlp> last step is optional but recommended ;)
2021-08-31T15:24:03 < zyp> I've written several bootloaders for various applications
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2021-08-31T15:24:33 < con3> I've never touched any of that, so time to start googling.
2021-08-31T15:25:38  * con3 thanks everyone for inputs
2021-08-31T15:25:45 < zyp> there's several ways to go about it, depending on your design goals
2021-08-31T15:25:49 < con3> zyp: mind sharing how you got started with it?
2021-08-31T15:26:06 < ventyl> simply treat it as yet another application
2021-08-31T15:26:21 < ventyl> which, once is done, will jump to some known address
2021-08-31T15:26:34 < con3> zyp: at this point if I could just flash the device with new software via the CANBUS and maybe pull some data from it like software version,etc.
2021-08-31T15:26:56 < ventyl> depending on chip you'll use, you may end up copying some part of bootloader code into RAM
2021-08-31T15:27:09 < zyp> not on stm32
2021-08-31T15:27:56 < zyp> maybe you would for stm32l, but not really the others
2021-08-31T15:28:17 < qyx> is L special?
2021-08-31T15:28:59 < zyp> different flash controller, word writes are pretty slow, and IIRC you can't do page writes while executing from flash
2021-08-31T15:29:38 < zyp> my stm32l bootloader does it the slow way, so it's not strictly necessary, but probably preferable
2021-08-31T15:30:05 < qyx> interesting, I don't remember if I did one for L4 or they were all F4
2021-08-31T15:30:39 < zyp> I should note I'm talking about L0, which I believe is very similar to L1, haven't used L4 yet
2021-08-31T15:30:46 < zyp> L4 might be different
2021-08-31T15:32:00 < ventyl> my L0 died before I managed to try writing into flash
2021-08-31T15:33:59 < zyp> con3, the easiest way is to treat the bootloader as a separate application, which at startup decides whether to run itself or jump to the main application
2021-08-31T15:34:09 < zyp> that's the usual way
2021-08-31T15:34:53 < zyp> then when you want to perform an upgrade, you tell the device to reset and switch to bootloader mode, do all the upgrade stuff, then reset and switch back to main application
2021-08-31T15:35:01 < ventyl> in fact it is nothing more than that
2021-08-31T15:35:39 < zyp> the advantage is that that decouples the bootloader completely from the application, although having an automated way to switch modes is convenient
2021-08-31T15:36:15 < zyp> the disadvantage is that bootloader mode is a special mode that needs to replicate any functionality and communication stack required to work
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2021-08-31T15:37:16 < srk> on some mcus, you have two flash banks, so you can rewrite one from app itself I think
2021-08-31T15:37:19 < zyp> the alternative is building some of it into the main application, so the application itself can receive a new firmware while it's running normally
2021-08-31T15:38:01 < zyp> yep, that is made easy with a dual bank flash, because you can just have the banks rewrite each other, I wrote a bootloader like that for a customer a few months ago
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2021-08-31T15:38:12 < zyp> e.g. stm32g4 can do that
2021-08-31T15:38:28 < srk> cool, I was just toying with that on l4 iirc
2021-08-31T15:38:36 < srk> how would you do that w/o dual banks?
2021-08-31T15:38:51  * con3 is taking notes and hopes he doesnt brick his f4
2021-08-31T15:39:39 < zyp> without dual bank, you'd receive and store the new firmware somewhere else, and then have an offline bootloader that runs after reset and goes and grabs the new firmware and writes it to main flash
2021-08-31T15:40:42 < srk> I see, neat
2021-08-31T15:40:58 < zyp> that is a more complicated solution, and lacks a convenient way to recover from a bad firmware
2021-08-31T15:41:42 < zyp> you could always force a standalone bootloader to enter bootloader mode, or a dual bank solution to revert to the other bank
2021-08-31T15:41:56 < qyx> whats the problem with keeping the new firmware in the other half of the flash?
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2021-08-31T15:42:07 < qyx> besides position independent code
2021-08-31T15:42:18 < qyx> and remapping VTOR
2021-08-31T15:42:28 < srk> its size typically :-D
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2021-08-31T15:42:57 < zyp> qyx, have you tried doing PIC?
2021-08-31T15:43:13 < zyp> I haven't, but I get the impression that it's not really feasible
2021-08-31T15:44:10 < srk> pcb pr0n https://shop.iflight-rc.com/Beast-H7-V2-55A-AIO-MPU6000-25.5-25.5-pro1588
2021-08-31T15:44:26 < qyx> zyp: tried
2021-08-31T15:44:58 < zyp> srk, that looks like some qyx level density
2021-08-31T15:45:10 < qyx> I gave the thing a hour of two of love, it didn't work
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2021-08-31T15:45:41 < zyp> qyx, then you've got a more precise answer to your own question than me :)
2021-08-31T15:46:59 < ventyl> why it is problematic?
2021-08-31T15:47:03 < ventyl> i wanted to play with it
2021-08-31T15:47:04 < srk> mad board.. 6S 55A, H7
2021-08-31T15:47:40 < qyx> meh that huge SOIC
2021-08-31T15:47:48 < qyx> or TSSOP or whatever is it
2021-08-31T15:48:29 < qyx> and blind/buried vias
2021-08-31T15:51:11 < srk> old school analog video OSD thingie
2021-08-31T15:52:09 < Laurenceb> >invensense
2021-08-31T15:52:21 < Laurenceb> bet there are emi issues too
2021-08-31T15:52:22 < zyp> ventyl, because some of the PIC mechanisms rely on patching in the addresses once they are known
2021-08-31T15:53:11 < zyp> and for an application that executes from XIP flash, that means before writing the flash
2021-08-31T15:54:02 < Laurenceb> the fortior controller looks interesting tho
2021-08-31T15:54:04 < ventyl> ok, so it isn't really position independent
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2021-08-31T15:57:58 < zyp> in theory you could use PC-relative adressing for anything in flash and absolute for ram
2021-08-31T15:58:23 < zyp> which should allow flash content to be placed arbitrarily
2021-08-31T15:58:31 < zyp> but I'm not sure how feasible that is
2021-08-31T15:58:53 < zyp> I think risc-v is supposed to be better at it
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2021-08-31T16:04:01 < qyx> so again
2021-08-31T16:04:07 < qyx> 15:02 < qyx> re pic: it is possible to do true PIC for code without patching anything
2021-08-31T16:04:10 < qyx> 15:03 < qyx> for PIC data, a register must be filled with a data segment/GOT table offset iirc
2021-08-31T16:04:43 < qyx> but not for this use case, data memory always starts at the same adress
2021-08-31T16:05:20 < qyx> so the overall problem is how to persuade the linker you want position independent code while still having position independent data
2021-08-31T16:05:29 < qyx> without generating GOT tables
2021-08-31T16:05:41 < qyx> (which you would need to load too otherwise)
2021-08-31T16:06:02 < qyx> *while still having data at the same position
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2021-08-31T16:45:44 < bitmask> “Planning ahead helps, but nothing will prepare you for German,” he said. “German destroys your best laid plans. German will defeat you. That text field you thought would only ever need a single 10-20 character word? Nope. German has a unique word for that and it’s a hundred and twelve characters long. 
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2021-08-31T16:53:49  * karlp gets stuck metaprogramming rust
2021-08-31T16:55:06 < ventyl> bitmask: in last company i've had german lessons and we took exams. once, everything was written in German except of "multiple choice answer". Someone asked lecturer, why is it in English and he replied, that "Papier isn't wide enough to state it in German on single line"
2021-08-31T16:56:18 < bitmask> ha
2021-08-31T16:56:29 < bitmask> what were they thinking
2021-08-31T16:57:01 < bitmask> encryption to the uninitiated
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2021-08-31T16:57:15 < ventyl> A4 was apparently originally intended to be used in landscape mode by Germans
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2021-08-31T17:21:24 < tct> malloy v0.1 released: https://github.com/tectu/malloy
2021-08-31T17:22:33 < Steffann> Does it do graphics?
2021-08-31T17:22:38 < tct> no
2021-08-31T17:22:47 < tct> but µGFX v3.0 is almost complete :>
2021-08-31T17:23:05 < englishman> how is it better than esp32?
2021-08-31T17:23:44 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@194.38.147.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2021-08-31T17:23:59 < Steffann> Isnt ugfx a myth tct?
2021-08-31T17:24:29 < PaulFertser> Cool, tct is digging modern C++ now for real :)
2021-08-31T17:24:42 < tct> PaulFertser, yeah :>
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2021-08-31T17:29:00 < karlp> fucking bt sig.
2021-08-31T17:29:16 < karlp> there's 16bits for appearances right, and it's 10 bits category, 6 bits specifics.
2021-08-31T17:29:33 < karlp> so there's a category for "glucose meter" with no specifics assigned, just "generic"
2021-08-31T17:29:49 < karlp> so recently they added a new "continuous glucose meter", again with no specifics..
2021-08-31T17:30:04 < Steffann> Can I find the spaceship in malloy yet, tct?
2021-08-31T17:30:18 < Steffann> Every modern c++ app needs it
2021-08-31T17:31:22 < karlp> though I guess compared to this insanity, two categories isn't so bad: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MxAAr/bt-sig-appearance-multipasssss.png
2021-08-31T17:32:15 < Steffann> Lol
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2021-08-31T17:32:47 < bitmask> anyone do 3d desktop stuff? directx 11, 12, opengl, vulkan?
2021-08-31T17:33:23 < srk> a bit of gl
2021-08-31T17:33:44 < bitmask> is it worth learning something newer like dx12 or vulcan?
2021-08-31T17:33:53 < bitmask> or is gl gonna still be around for a long time
2021-08-31T17:33:56 < srk> it depends! vulcan is certainly nice
2021-08-31T17:33:57 < srk> yes
2021-08-31T17:34:08 < bitmask> i never heard of vulcan until today
2021-08-31T17:34:28 < qyx> isn't dx dead yet?
2021-08-31T17:34:50 < bitmask> from what i read dx12 is just like vulcan so it looks like they are on a new trajectory
2021-08-31T17:34:57 < srk> I'm sticking with gl for now due to portability, the pipeline is madly flexible and I barely use all it has to offer
2021-08-31T17:34:58 < bitmask> not sure how widely its used though
2021-08-31T17:35:13 < bitmask> alright i think i'll do the same, i was leaning towards GL anyway
2021-08-31T17:35:35 < srk> also many good tutorials and also ##OpenGL
2021-08-31T17:35:40 < bitmask> do you use physics engines and possibly other engines or do it yourself
2021-08-31T17:36:23 < bitmask> do you like to, do it yourself?
2021-08-31T17:36:36 < bitmask> (40 yo virgin) sorry
2021-08-31T17:37:11 < srk> depends :) you don't have to.. I use haskell for everything so I can't really give good advice :-D
2021-08-31T17:37:21 < bitmask> heh
2021-08-31T17:37:22 < bitmask> k
2021-08-31T17:37:23 < srk> what's the project?
2021-08-31T17:37:43 < bitmask> nothing in mind, just wanna learn, ive messed around with it in the past but its been a long time
2021-08-31T17:38:38 < srk> modern gl is mostly about shaders so you can even play with shadertoy 
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2021-08-31T17:38:57 < bitmask> ok cool
2021-08-31T17:39:16 < zyp> vulkan is basically next gen gl
2021-08-31T17:39:41 < zyp> if I were to pick anything today, I'd go with vulkan
2021-08-31T17:39:46 < bitmask> grr
2021-08-31T17:39:48 < bitmask> you ruined it
2021-08-31T17:39:50 < bitmask> :)
2021-08-31T17:41:00 < zyp> and I'm partially biased by macos not supporting opengl past 4.1, but vulkan seems well supported through moltenvk
2021-08-31T17:41:42 < bitmask> ok im on mac so that might be my answer as well
2021-08-31T17:42:08 < zyp> in theory it should be possible to use zink to translate newer opengl to vulkan and run that via moltenvk, but that weren't supported last I checked :)
2021-08-31T17:42:38 < srk> neat
2021-08-31T17:44:35 < bitmask> alright vlukan it is
2021-08-31T17:44:40 < bitmask> and also vulkan
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2021-08-31T17:57:34 < bitmask> what would you doooohoooohoooo
2021-08-31T17:57:38 < bitmask> for a klondike bar
2021-08-31T17:58:40 < bitmask> guess my airbrush filter doesnt work very well, theres paint on the window screen where it hooks up
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2021-08-31T18:05:04 < bitmask> hmm how strong is 5.7oz.in
2021-08-31T18:07:12 < ventyl> bitmask: main advantage of opengl, especially opengl es is, that you can run it pretty much on anything, you'd bother to turn on
2021-08-31T18:07:18 < ventyl> not the case with vulkan
2021-08-31T18:07:31 < bitmask> k
2021-08-31T18:08:10 < ventyl> vulkan disadvantage is, that you get a lot of extra performance at cost of a lot of more code
2021-08-31T18:08:19 < ventyl> but the API is, once you get used to it, pretty good
2021-08-31T18:08:39 < bitmask> im gonna start to use vulkan and maybe gl after that just to see the difference
2021-08-31T18:09:01 < bitmask> incase i need it for compatibility but vulkan will probably be available everywhere by that point :P
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2021-08-31T18:48:35 < zyp> ventyl, is the difference between gl4 and vulkan really that big?
2021-08-31T18:49:02 < ventyl> in terms of code density yes
2021-08-31T18:49:26 < ventyl> you may need hundreds of lines of code to just draw a coloured triangle
2021-08-31T18:49:29 < bitmask> i know vulkan more corresponds to the gpu hardware of today than gl does
2021-08-31T18:49:42 < ventyl> that's not true
2021-08-31T18:49:49 < bitmask> ?
2021-08-31T18:49:50 < ventyl> vulkan *doesn't* correspond to hardware
2021-08-31T18:50:00 < ventyl> GL had some assumptions on HW, on what is fast, what is slow
2021-08-31T18:50:05 < ventyl> this is changing over time
2021-08-31T18:50:10 < ventyl> vulkan doesn't assume anything
2021-08-31T18:50:21 < ventyl> and gets rid of useless layers
2021-08-31T18:50:30 < bitmask> i heard it was all about being closer to the rendering pipeline of how gpus work nowadays
2021-08-31T18:50:33 < ventyl> therefore you have to do a lot of stuff, GL would do for you, on your own
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2021-08-31T18:50:57 < zyp> amount of code needed to «just draw a coloured triangle» is not a very good measure of complexity
2021-08-31T18:51:20 < ventyl> it gives you much more control, unlike GL, which gives you a lot of unification. unification comes at a price of performance, because drivers have to translate
2021-08-31T18:51:20 < zyp> and my understanding is that you need a bunch in gl as well as soon as you ditch the old fixed function pipeline
2021-08-31T18:51:56 < ventyl> zyp: with vulkan it continues, pretty much anything requires at least 3x the amount of code
2021-08-31T18:52:23 < zyp> I'll have to take your word for it :)
2021-08-31T18:52:25 < ventyl> which is not a bad thing if you are working on an engine and you can use those 50% more performance you (maybe) get
2021-08-31T18:52:42 < ventyl> but may be a bit of burden if anyone is just starting with 3D
2021-08-31T18:53:11 < ventyl> while concepts are essentially the same, just GL is more abstract and vulkan is raw, I'd start with GL, transition shouldn't be that problematic
2021-08-31T18:53:13 < bitmask> i think i have enough gl/dx experience from decades ago to get by
2021-08-31T18:53:44 < ventyl> decades ago = fixed pipelines, no buffer objects and that?
2021-08-31T18:53:54 < bitmask> i dont remember tbh
2021-08-31T18:54:02 < zyp> haha
2021-08-31T18:54:11 < ventyl> GL has changed a lot between gl 1 and 2
2021-08-31T18:54:19 < ventyl> it essentially adopted whole DX9
2021-08-31T18:54:29 < ventyl> first as extensions, then they put it into core
2021-08-31T18:55:24 < bitmask> vulkan-tutorial.com seems to be a good source so i'll start there
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2021-08-31T19:11:18 < bitmask> hmm, apparently theres a lot of middleware engines to simplify the process
2021-08-31T19:11:48 < bitmask> though id rather have done it myself so maybe that will be my first project
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2021-08-31T20:39:04 < qyx> yesterday I mentioned stm32g491ccu6 in stock, it is gone now :>
2021-08-31T20:39:21 < qyx> I should have kept that for myself
2021-08-31T20:43:31 < englishman> do you need some? i got the last ones.
2021-08-31T20:43:34 < englishman> $50
2021-08-31T20:45:22 < qyx> heh
2021-08-31T20:45:37 < qyx> really?
2021-08-31T20:46:01 < qyx> I managed to get 25
2021-08-31T20:46:13 -!- fury [uid193779@id-193779.helmsley.irccloud.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2021-08-31T20:47:02 < englishman> no, but for 50/chip ill get some for you
2021-08-31T20:48:05 -!- fury [uid193779@id-193779.helmsley.irccloud.com] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-31T20:50:06 < qyx> thank you sir, your snake will bite your capitalism
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2021-08-31T22:15:42 < bitmask> any chance the part with the red wire running through is enough to straighten it? https://i.imgur.com/tVO5iBf.png
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2021-08-31T22:17:16 < bitmask> not sure if the turn before doing the second axis will cause any rotation in the wire and end up straightening the same axis twice or something
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2021-08-31T22:20:55 < qyx> you said you are starting with vulkan
2021-08-31T22:21:08 < bitmask> who me? i do 10 things at the same time
2021-08-31T22:21:11 < qyx> it doesn't look like a rotating cube
2021-08-31T22:21:16 < qyx> oh
2021-08-31T22:21:49 < bitmask> i just wanted to get a little bit done of my base coil winder idea before i started reading
2021-08-31T22:22:01 < bitmask> actually im probably gonna sweep/mop first
2021-08-31T22:22:08 < bitmask> too much to do
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2021-08-31T22:28:41 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/p74v2o2
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2021-08-31T22:30:34 < bitmask> what did you make the case out of?
2021-08-31T22:30:44 < bitmask> well not out of, but from
2021-08-31T22:30:49 < bitmask> what process
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2021-08-31T22:52:54 < mawk> karlp: to have RTT debug output
2021-08-31T22:53:04 < mawk> but maybe I can do it with the builtin stlink
2021-08-31T22:53:33 < mawk> <srk> on some mcus, you have two flash banks, so you can rewrite one from app itself I think
2021-08-31T22:53:37 < mawk> you can do that with even just one bank
2021-08-31T22:53:48 < karlp> what does rtt have to do with what?
2021-08-31T22:53:56 < mawk> well it's a segger thing karlp 
2021-08-31T22:54:01 < karlp> no?
2021-08-31T22:54:02 < mawk> so I'd think it only works with jlink
2021-08-31T22:54:08 < karlp> it's in probe-rs, and it's in openocd too...
2021-08-31T22:54:10 < mawk> why no
2021-08-31T22:54:12 < mawk> they invented it
2021-08-31T22:54:12 < mawk> ah
2021-08-31T22:54:19 < karlp> it's pretty standard docs...
2021-08-31T22:54:20 < Mangy_Dog> bitmask its resin printed
2021-08-31T22:54:25 < bitmask> ahh nice
2021-08-31T22:54:32 < mawk> is probe-rs related to rust?
2021-08-31T22:54:36 < mawk> how much are they paying you
2021-08-31T22:54:41 < Mangy_Dog> the face is a seporate part and the display is sandwitched in
2021-08-31T22:54:48 < mawk> I'll try with openocd then, thanks
2021-08-31T22:54:53 < Mangy_Dog> I may slightly redesign it to make it easier
2021-08-31T22:54:58 < karlp> https://openocd.org/doc-release/html/General-Commands.html#index-rtt-setup
2021-08-31T22:55:09 < Mangy_Dog> even though this is already redesigned to make easier ive been figuring out new problems to solve :p
2021-08-31T22:55:10 < mawk> ah but I remember I tried already
2021-08-31T22:55:12 < karlp> up to you to set up your target side though.
2021-08-31T22:55:13 < mawk> it was annoying
2021-08-31T22:55:16  * karlp shrugs.
2021-08-31T22:55:30 < mawk> but I made it work in the end, I should have written some docs somewhere if I were smart
2021-08-31T22:56:05 < mawk> and ANSI terminal colors were working nicely since the output was in a regular terminal
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2021-08-31T23:04:00 < ColdKeyboard> Are there any STM boards that can do I2S to USB and there are working examples?
2021-08-31T23:04:20 < ColdKeyboard> These chip shortages are getting out of hand
2021-08-31T23:04:27 < mawk> you mean st chips?
2021-08-31T23:04:30 < mawk> not stm32
2021-08-31T23:04:48 < mawk> if you mean stm32, I guess that depends on the program you write, and then you just need to select a chip that can do both usb and i2s
2021-08-31T23:04:50 < mawk> and both are common
2021-08-31T23:04:58 < mawk> but you write the code yourself
2021-08-31T23:07:55 < ColdKeyboard> I assumed you could do it. I was wondering if there is a working example with STM32
2021-08-31T23:08:00 < bitmask> think this guy is food safe (for drinking water): https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=134156
2021-08-31T23:08:54 < mawk> no idea ColdKeyboard , but usually you can find it on google if it exists
2021-08-31T23:09:14 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, look at stm32f4discovery examples
2021-08-31T23:09:26 < mawk> PET is foodsafe bitmask 
2021-08-31T23:09:27 < mawk> but I'd worry about that lid
2021-08-31T23:09:27 < mawk> is there a gasket? and if yes, is it greased?
2021-08-31T23:09:40 < mawk> ah they say >EPDM gasket
2021-08-31T23:09:40 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, it has an onboard i2s dac, so there's examples using it
2021-08-31T23:10:10 < ColdKeyboard> zyp Oh interesting. Thanks!
2021-08-31T23:10:15 < zyp> I hacked up my own code for it once, but it doesn't handle rate matching :)
2021-08-31T23:10:24 < bitmask> oh just watched a video, says lid is not fda approved
2021-08-31T23:10:55 < mawk> not fda approved doesn't mean not safe bitmask 
2021-08-31T23:10:59 < zyp> bitmask, what do you need it for?
2021-08-31T23:10:59 < bitmask> oh
2021-08-31T23:11:11 < bitmask> zyp, storing water after filtering it
2021-08-31T23:11:12 < mawk> but yeah, EPDM doesn't seem to be used for food contact stuff
2021-08-31T23:11:26 < bitmask> i think i'll just get a pressurized tank
2021-08-31T23:11:31 < bitmask> meant for these systems
2021-08-31T23:11:52 < mawk> google says there are some EPDM plastics that are FDA-approved
2021-08-31T23:12:00 < mawk> or rubbers rather, it's not plastic
2021-08-31T23:12:10 < mawk> but it depends on how they cured it
2021-08-31T23:12:45 < mawk> or, just remove the gasket
2021-08-31T23:12:49 < mawk> you're storing water not petrol
2021-08-31T23:12:56 < mawk> it won't evaporate 
2021-08-31T23:12:59 < ColdKeyboard> zyp stm32f4discovery is discontinued :\
2021-08-31T23:13:10 < ColdKeyboard> Also did you have any luck running i2s to usb examples? :)
2021-08-31T23:13:15 < mawk> no it's not
2021-08-31T23:13:18 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32f4discovery.html
2021-08-31T23:13:22 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, oh, well, some of the newer ones also have i2s stuff
2021-08-31T23:13:24 < mawk> >ACTIVE
2021-08-31T23:13:58 < mawk> they just swaped the mcu on it, but they still make the board
2021-08-31T23:15:33 < zyp> bitmask, any store stocking stuff for homebrewing will have food safe containers
2021-08-31T23:16:40 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/APEC-TANK-4-Residential-Pre-Pressurized-Water/dp/B00LU28SHE
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2021-08-31T23:16:52 < bitmask> pressurized would be a nice addition
2021-08-31T23:17:13 < kakium69> hello69
2021-08-31T23:17:31 < bitmask> is it time to 69?
2021-08-31T23:17:45 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: f4discovery afaik
2021-08-31T23:18:02 < qyx> it has a microphone and there was an example for that
2021-08-31T23:18:06 < bitmask> my first stm was the f4 disco, still have it
2021-08-31T23:18:17 < ColdKeyboard> Found the board on digikey. I'll order couple to play around :)
2021-08-31T23:18:39 < mawk> time to learn C ColdKeyboard 
2021-08-31T23:18:41 < mawk> quick quick
2021-08-31T23:18:56 < kakium69> we do pressurized 69
2021-08-31T23:19:03 < mawk> lol
2021-08-31T23:19:54 < kakium69> ColdKeyboard: you are warming up your keyboard?
2021-08-31T23:20:09 < mawk> kakium69 is feeling sassy69 tonight
2021-08-31T23:21:30 < kakium69> don't mind me I just needed to exhaust now I need to enjoy tubes
2021-08-31T23:22:36 < mawk> what tubes
2021-08-31T23:23:46 < kakium69> 8)
2021-08-31T23:23:57 < ColdKeyboard> mawk I was born in C, molded by it. I didn't see Python until I was a grown man. :P
2021-08-31T23:24:16 < mawk> tell me kakium69 what is the tube
2021-08-31T23:24:26 < kakium69> I started wth c++
2021-08-31T23:24:30 < zyp> bitmask, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/m3rdK.jpg
2021-08-31T23:24:37 < mawk> I started with C
2021-08-31T23:24:40 < mawk> like all normal children
2021-08-31T23:25:09 < kakium69> I wanted to make gayms so I read that C++ is the bestest game programming language
2021-08-31T23:25:31 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2021-08-31T23:25:36 < mawk> I wanted to make GUIs, so I learnt C++ and Qt
2021-08-31T23:25:55 < mawk> none of my friends found it cool that I could make GUIs with buttons and tabs and all kinds of things
2021-08-31T23:25:57 < mawk> then I stopped having friends
2021-08-31T23:26:14 < kakium69> you did like the most useful things
2021-08-31T23:26:41 < mawk> did you do a gaym?
2021-08-31T23:26:47 < kakium69> no
2021-08-31T23:26:56 < mawk> with my C++ knowledge I modded the game http://sauerbraten.org/
2021-08-31T23:27:09 < mawk> I made a laser shotgun by shuffling around the C++ code in a dirty way
2021-08-31T23:27:39 < kakium69> I think I have played that gaym like a decade ago?
2021-08-31T23:28:29 < kakium69> it was for linux when I had my bubuntu period
2021-08-31T23:29:43 < kakium69> mawk: is it quake3 based?
2021-08-31T23:30:17 < mawk> hmm no it's written from scratch iirc
2021-08-31T23:30:50 < mawk> but it's quake-like I'd say
2021-08-31T23:31:23 < kakium69> yes I recall it was make from scratch
2021-08-31T23:35:48 < mawk> bubuntu
2021-08-31T23:35:52 < mawk> are you on windoze now?
2021-08-31T23:36:15 < kakium69> ye
2021-08-31T23:36:25 < kakium69> and mint on desktop
2021-08-31T23:36:32 < kakium69> and windows
2021-08-31T23:36:48 < kakium69> no dual boot shiets but 2 drive setup
2021-08-31T23:38:02 < kakium69> I did some setups that it doesn't mess the bios clock and also I have the mint drive attached to virtual machine in windows if I don't care to reboot
2021-08-31T23:38:40 < mawk> a
2021-08-31T23:38:47 < mawk> why does it mess up the bios clock
2021-08-31T23:40:07 < kakium69> windows and lunix have different default clock things
2021-08-31T23:40:27 < kakium69> how to store time in bios clock
2021-08-31T23:40:48 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2021-08-31T23:46:59  * mawk doubts
2021-08-31T23:47:05 < mawk> they usually do not change time in bios
2021-08-31T23:47:09 < mawk> they just take it and apply offset to it
2021-08-31T23:47:25 < mawk> but even if it's the case, linux has a setting to say if the bios time is absolute or not
2021-08-31T23:47:26 < mawk> it asks at setup
2021-08-31T23:47:39 < kakium69> yes
2021-08-31T23:47:59 < kakium69> bios time in UTC checkbox?
2021-08-31T23:48:21 < kakium69> windows stores in local time
2021-08-31T23:48:42 < kakium69> operating systems do change bios time!
2021-08-31T23:49:34 < mawk> yes windows I suppose
2021-08-31T23:50:49 < mawk> or maybe linux
2021-08-31T23:50:54 < mawk> I didn't know about it
2021-08-31T23:51:08 < mawk> but anyway yes there is le magic checkbox to tell linux in which timezone the hardware clock is
2021-08-31T23:51:20 < mawk> and then it will stop changing
2021-08-31T23:51:30 < mawk> or just tell linux to never change the hardware clock and only rely on NTP, for instance
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2021-08-31T23:52:19 < kakium69> that is what I did
2021-08-31T23:52:32 < kakium69> it can read hardware clock
2021-08-31T23:52:37 < kakium69> but not change it
2021-08-31T23:54:41 < mawk> so time for >>dual boot<<
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 01 00:00:41 2021