--- Log opened Fri Oct 01 00:00:23 2021
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2021-10-01T00:14:40 < qyx>  Factory Lead Time:
2021-10-01T00:14:42 < qyx> 74 Weeks 
2021-10-01T00:14:51 < qyx> when did they say this is going to end?
2021-10-01T00:15:08 < catphish> octeber 4th i think
2021-10-01T00:15:22 < catphish> all parts will be available from then
2021-10-01T00:16:41 < kakium69> all shortage will end
2021-10-01T00:22:22 < catphish> prices will also fall 69%
2021-10-01T00:22:45 < karlp> nice
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2021-10-01T00:23:18 < kakium69> everything will be nice
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2021-10-01T00:55:49 < Steffanx> juupas
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2021-10-01T04:29:18 < jadew> "Success is like being pregnant, everyone congratulates you but no one knows how many times you've been fucked."
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2021-10-01T05:16:13 < aandrew> jadew: wow that's insightful
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2021-10-01T05:56:15 < steve__> jadew was just thinking along those lines.... who said that?  (ignoring that you've already quoted it XD)
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2021-10-01T08:47:13 < amstan> Hey guys, i'm banging my head over this: i can't figure out how to get any signs of like out of UART on the STM32H74
2021-10-01T08:47:16 < amstan> I know https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/cd00167594-stm32-microcontroller-system-memory-boot-mode-stmicroelectronics.pdf is relevant
2021-10-01T08:47:45 < amstan> and that usb connection matters, when usb is connected i do see the bootloader enumerate, but nothing out of UART (even with the cable disconnected from my nucleo board)
2021-10-01T08:51:54 < qyx>  I think stm32 bootloader doesn't output anything on UART
2021-10-01T08:52:03 < qyx> you have to send some control characters first
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 01 09:06:43 2021
--- Log opened Fri Oct 01 09:13:01 2021
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2021-10-01T11:45:40 < karlp> doh, left my trace plotting thing running over night. 16G data file and everything sluggish as hell :)
2021-10-01T11:46:12 < karlp> amstan: you need to use parity even.
2021-10-01T11:46:23 < karlp> and pretty sure it won't use uart and dfu at the same time.
2021-10-01T11:47:41 < zyp> I tend to have the same happen when I forget to stop a usb capture :)
2021-10-01T11:48:33 < karlp> yeah, firefox has "crashed" lots of tabs too, looks like "overnight" isabout as long as things can go before it all falls apart.
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2021-10-01T12:13:03 < kakium69> it's all in ram?
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2021-10-01T12:13:26  * karlp shrugs.  kst2 normally deals with big files pretty well, but it had crashed too,
2021-10-01T12:13:41 < karlp> I guess firefox felt ram pressure from somewhere and started crashing it's own tabs...
2021-10-01T12:13:46 < karlp> it offers to restore them?
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2021-10-01T12:41:36 < mawk> I have around 500 tabs on chrome and it never crashes karlp 
2021-10-01T12:42:46 < mawk> the only annoying thing is that the tabs disappear when you have too much
2021-10-01T12:42:50 < zyp> shame, maybe that'd help you get rid of some
2021-10-01T12:43:06 < mawk> so I navigate exclusively with Ctrl+pgup/pgdn until I find the right one
2021-10-01T12:43:51 < mawk> and ctrl-9 to go to the last tab
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2021-10-01T15:50:35 < Steffanx> Mawk has too much time
2021-10-01T15:50:50 < Steffanx> Stop using tabs as bookmarks 
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2021-10-01T16:39:05 < mawk> Steffanx :(
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2021-10-01T17:00:18  * GenTooMan stops using bookmarks for tabs.
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2021-10-01T17:08:18 < bitmask> Unlike particles like protons which are made up of electrons and quarks, 
2021-10-01T17:08:21 < bitmask> nice...
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2021-10-01T17:09:40 < bitmask> probably meant hadrons but terrible mistake
2021-10-01T17:09:46 < bitmask> oh even that is wrong
2021-10-01T17:09:48 < bitmask> nevermind
2021-10-01T17:10:08 < Steffanx> You probably read this in your C++ book
2021-10-01T17:10:41 < bitmask> yup
2021-10-01T17:11:23 < Steffanx> Hah
2021-10-01T17:15:51 < bitmask> how are you doing Steffanx 
2021-10-01T17:21:29 < bitmask> that good huh
2021-10-01T17:23:20 < Steffanx> Yeah fine fine. Preparing for my weekend 
2021-10-01T17:23:31 < bitmask> whatcha getting up to?
2021-10-01T17:23:37 < Steffanx> While finishing the last things at work 
2021-10-01T17:23:51 < Steffanx> Not much, but weekend is the most important part of the week
2021-10-01T17:24:48 < bitmask> that it is
2021-10-01T17:44:40 < Steffanx> There?
2021-10-01T18:23:54 < bitmask> who?
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2021-10-01T18:43:21 < MrBIOS> qyx re: 74 week lead time, it will _never_ end
2021-10-01T18:43:41 < MrBIOS> not until more wafer packaging facilities (and fabs) exist
2021-10-01T18:44:06 < MrBIOS> and maybe stupid US companies who make their wafers here in the US stop sending them to SE Asia to be packaged
2021-10-01T18:58:41 < Steffanx> You bitmask 
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2021-10-01T19:35:31  * karlp sprinkles 0.001 ohm resistors on his spice mix
2021-10-01T19:35:40  * karlp grumbles abotu ideal behaviours
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2021-10-01T20:25:49 < BrainDamage> the extra pro version is using capacitors
2021-10-01T20:26:36 < BrainDamage> because unlike resistors, the leak current will scale with the time step
2021-10-01T20:26:44 < BrainDamage> and will converge to 0 at dc
2021-10-01T20:26:48 < karlp> simulation now looks really good though, pity real world still lols at me :)
2021-10-01T20:26:57 < karlp> next week's problem :)
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2021-10-01T20:34:21 < kakium69> it's time to gaze at magic window
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2021-10-01T20:38:49 < kakium69> pictures of remote places and writings of numerous sources appear to the fireless light of this window without any apparent lever-action
2021-10-01T20:39:47 < BrainDamage> I was ok with the convoluted description of a monitor until you lost me with the lever
2021-10-01T20:40:07 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-01T20:42:23 < kakium69> youtube video idea: diy LCD display with gasoline lantern backlight
2021-10-01T20:42:51 < kakium69> I think someone has done PC with gasoline engine already
2021-10-01T20:42:59 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limelight
2021-10-01T20:43:09 < BrainDamage> if you want to go full hipster
2021-10-01T20:45:51 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk nissan leaf advert
2021-10-01T20:46:56 < BrainDamage> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/contacts/cnlabelcontactrelationyoungercousinmotherssiblingsdaughterorfatherssistersdaughter
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2021-10-01T20:50:11 < kakium69> I wouldn't mind with rugged computer to have fuel operated "range extender"
2021-10-01T20:50:36 < kakium69> rugged laptop*
2021-10-01T20:51:17 < BrainDamage> i have looked at fuel cells but they are stupidly expensive
2021-10-01T20:51:34 < kakium69> fill tank with ethanol, turn on fuel and press ignite
2021-10-01T20:52:11 < kakium69> stirling engine would do
2021-10-01T20:54:05 < kakium69> linear type without crankshaft
2021-10-01T20:54:22 < kakium69> spring driven
2021-10-01T20:55:38 < BrainDamage> that'd make fan noise irrelevant
2021-10-01T20:55:59 < kakium69> burner would need a small fan
2021-10-01T20:56:15 < kakium69> then there is vibration
2021-10-01T21:05:17 < kakium69> stirling would need big fan
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2021-10-01T23:20:13 < jadew> I managed to make a file that windows can't erase :/
2021-10-01T23:20:18 < jadew> not from explorer anyway
2021-10-01T23:20:31 < jadew> "something.txt     "
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 02 2021
2021-10-02T00:06:57 < mawk> use cmd.exe
2021-10-02T00:07:08 < mawk> or move it into a new directory then delete it
2021-10-02T00:07:11 < mawk> jadew 
2021-10-02T00:07:17 < mawk> is it a ntfs filesystem?
2021-10-02T00:07:30 < kakium69> I have done that
2021-10-02T00:07:42 < kakium69> I don't remember the solution
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2021-10-02T00:14:10 < karlp> thanks braindamage, today I learned about candoluminescence
2021-10-02T00:14:47 < karlp> you can't just click it and press delete? what?
2021-10-02T00:15:52 < kakium69> indeed you can't
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2021-10-02T00:29:00 < jadew> ntfs, yeah
2021-10-02T00:29:09 < jadew> I removed it from the linux subsystem
2021-10-02T00:29:11 < jadew> with rm
2021-10-02T00:29:27 < jadew> would have probably worked programatically too
2021-10-02T00:47:38 < kakium69> oh yes
2021-10-02T00:47:47 < kakium69> it's the exact trick I used too
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2021-10-02T01:14:54 < Steffanx> Next challenge jadew: have Windows complain about a file that doesn't exist while you just selected it in a file browser without deleting the file.
2021-10-02T01:15:41 < kakium69> delet system32
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2021-10-02T01:16:01 < kakium69> problem solved
2021-10-02T01:16:20 < Steffanx> Wrong answer 
2021-10-02T01:17:39 < jadew> hit refresh
2021-10-02T01:17:50 < Steffanx> My most fun bug is windows inserting control character into the explorer search field when you press win+e, win+f, win+v very quickly after each other 
2021-10-02T01:18:00 < Steffanx> I mean
2021-10-02T01:18:20 < Steffanx> Win+e, ctrl+f, ctrl+v
2021-10-02T01:19:29 < jadew> what happens when you do that?
2021-10-02T01:19:29 < Steffanx> The last one doesn't matter, but it will not paste your just copied text
2021-10-02T01:21:23 < Steffanx> I'll show tomorrow, or later today actually 
2021-10-02T01:29:54 < qyx> I can't do that in lunix
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2021-10-02T03:38:10 < jadew> I'm facing a weird problem...
2021-10-02T03:38:30 < jadew> I can't remember the password for one of my virtual machines
2021-10-02T03:38:54 < jadew> I am still logged in (as root too), but I can't seem to remember it
2021-10-02T03:39:15 < jadew> my fear is that someone might have hacked the box and changed it
2021-10-02T03:39:46 < jadew> suggestions?
2021-10-02T03:39:58 < jadew> I don't want to change the password, in case I remember it
2021-10-02T03:40:14 < jadew> if I don't, I'll assume the box was hacked, together with the rest of my network
2021-10-02T03:40:22 < jadew> and I don't want to make that assumption yet
2021-10-02T03:47:06 < jadew> I also made the mistake of trying one of my important passwords in it... realized what I've done right after I did it
2021-10-02T03:47:26 < jadew> so I guess right now I'm trying to figure out the password, if it's something I remember then the box is likely fine
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2021-10-02T04:31:57 < qyx> copy the shadow line and change it
2021-10-02T04:32:12 < qyx> you can guess later and offline
2021-10-02T04:32:34 < qyx> and not on a potentially hacked box
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2021-10-02T06:11:34 < jadew> qyx, yep, that's what I did
2021-10-02T06:11:47 < jadew> I still couldn't remember the password
2021-10-02T06:12:02 < jadew> however, instead of shutting down the VM, I saved it
2021-10-02T06:12:15 < jadew> so the changes didn't get merged with the existing VHD
2021-10-02T06:13:05 < jadew> that one hasn't been changed since almost 4 months ago
2021-10-02T06:13:19 < jadew> and I think my PC was on for less than 3
2021-10-02T06:13:36 < jadew> and that's when I last logged into that VM
2021-10-02T06:14:24 < jadew> the shadow from the unaltered vhdx is the same as the one I copied while logged in
2021-10-02T06:14:35 < jadew> so it's very possible I just forgot the password
2021-10-02T06:14:49 < jadew> which is a first
2021-10-02T06:14:59 < jadew> and worrying in itself
2021-10-02T06:15:01 < jadew> anyway
2021-10-02T06:15:29 < jadew> I'm off to bed now, I'll let hashcat chew at it over the weekend, maybe I'll get lucky
2021-10-02T06:15:59 < jadew> a bitcoin mining rig would come in handy right now
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2021-10-02T11:34:20 < invzim> AHA
2021-10-02T11:34:28 < invzim> this is where you guys have been hiding out :)
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2021-10-02T11:47:20 < Steffanx> Where have you been hiding invzim ?
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2021-10-02T11:48:18 < zyp> leenode
2021-10-02T11:51:20 < invzim> thought I had freenode issues, but discovered it was freenode that had issues :)
2021-10-02T11:53:14 < Steffanx> The sasl and shit?
2021-10-02T11:53:35 < invzim> yeah, couldn't even log onto the web thingie
2021-10-02T11:54:04 < Steffanx> Isnt freenode completely dead yet?
2021-10-02T11:56:53 < invzim> how's the chip/parts shortage treating everyone?  I had to source stm32's by calling avnet in Norway, then shipping it to the factory in China.  Latest issue I'm having is to source connectors from digi-key and sending them.
2021-10-02T11:57:02 < invzim> I miss the days of 'turn-key' where they could source everything
2021-10-02T11:58:50 < Steffanx> Personally I'm not affected to much, at work is terrible shitty though 
2021-10-02T11:58:57 < Steffanx> Too*
2021-10-02T12:04:17 < jpa-> i've given up on trying to source anything
2021-10-02T12:58:09 < Steffanx> So what is jpa- up to nowadays?
2021-10-02T13:02:26 < jpa-> coding and feeling bad about myself
2021-10-02T13:02:41 < sauce> big mood
2021-10-02T13:09:59 < Steffanx> Awh, winter is coming?
2021-10-02T13:11:52 < jpa-> maybe, not sure if it is related though
2021-10-02T13:12:02 < jpa-> been sleeping & feeling tired a lot
2021-10-02T13:12:24 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/M450.JPG  on the other hand this pink modelling board is lovely
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2021-10-02T13:55:52 < srk> indeed
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2021-10-02T15:57:00 < PaulFertser> Bought some sunflower seeds and got a live coccinelle as a bonus.
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2021-10-02T16:28:15 < Steffanx> PaulFertser is all into coccinelle lately?
2021-10-02T16:28:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I think that's a coincidence.
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2021-10-02T17:09:40 < jadew> NOT HACKED
2021-10-02T17:09:51 < jadew> jeez man... sleep did help
2021-10-02T17:10:18 < jadew> now I don't have to be suspicious about every PC in my network
2021-10-02T17:20:50 < Steffanx>  Now you still don't know they already hacked you
2021-10-02T17:21:52 < jadew> right, but I don't have reasons to believe they did either, so that's an improvement
2021-10-02T17:23:29 < jadew> the good thing is that the network is set up in such a way that most PCs can't talk to each other
2021-10-02T17:23:42 < jadew> so at least I had that going for me
2021-10-02T17:24:10 < jadew> the only PC the VM was able to talk to was my own machine, which is on windows (but configured for a home network - so some stuff still exposed)
2021-10-02T17:26:21 < jadew> I'll take this opportunity to update windows too
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2021-10-02T20:01:40 < bitmask> oh hell yea
2021-10-02T20:02:03 < bitmask> i didnt think i was gonna find it but i got the whole GPU Pro series (7 books)
2021-10-02T20:02:17 < bitmask> someone had it on their github account though
2021-10-02T20:12:07 < Steffanx> Thief.
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2021-10-02T20:56:59 < bitmask> shhhh
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2021-10-02T21:17:18 < kraiskil> (gdb) break 2349254 
2021-10-02T21:17:18 < kraiskil> Breakpoint 2 at 0x55555555c232: file /home/kraiskil/stuff/onnx2c_build/test/onnx_model_zoo/squeezenet11_0_generated.c, line 2349254.
2021-10-02T21:17:39 < kraiskil> I'm going to need a bigger mcu than my stm32f4 :|
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2021-10-03T01:07:05 < kakium007> Steffanx: guess which movie I saw today?
2021-10-03T01:16:47 < Steffanx> Backdoor Sluts volume 3?
2021-10-03T01:16:58 < kakium007> ?
2021-10-03T01:17:22 < kakium007> no steff
2021-10-03T01:17:40 < kakium007> see my nick
2021-10-03T01:17:53 < Steffanx> Oh, I missed the nick.
2021-10-03T01:18:02 < Steffanx> Was it any good?
2021-10-03T01:18:14 < Steffanx> Are we ready for a female 007 now?
2021-10-03T01:19:47 < kakium007> No
2021-10-03T01:21:37 < qyx> ##shortage32 I cannot source sama5d27 SoM
2021-10-03T01:21:50 < qyx> wtf happened to the world
2021-10-03T01:22:08 < kakium007> Steffanx: yeah it was nice cinema experience
2021-10-03T01:26:06 < qyx> hopefully nobody wants stm32mp1 in ballish BGAs
2021-10-03T01:26:22 < qyx> oh thanks god many in stock
2021-10-03T01:26:37 < qyx> so I need to finish the board and hope it works
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2021-10-03T01:48:24 < kakium007> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfu0nEiNYA meanwhile in englishman's farm?
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 03 07:16:29 2021
--- Log opened Sun Oct 03 07:16:37 2021
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2021-10-03T15:52:05 < Steffanx> Welcome.
2021-10-03T15:59:19 < mouseghost> Hello sir Steffanx.
2021-10-03T15:59:26 < Steffanx> Gooday mr mouseghost
2021-10-03T15:59:38 < mouseghost> Have a great Sunday, mr Steffanx
2021-10-03T15:59:54 < Steffanx> Nah, its very rainy and depressing today.
2021-10-03T16:00:44 < mouseghost> Hey, everything has upsides!
2021-10-03T16:01:05 < mouseghost> Steffanx, you can get yourself a blanket and a nice, warm cup of tea and lay and just relax :)
2021-10-03T16:01:44 < Steffanx> nah decided to clean the desk and the space around it a little.
2021-10-03T16:02:05 < englishman> steffy is more of a dirt bike and monster energy drink kind of guy
2021-10-03T16:02:24 < Steffanx> lolno, not even close.
2021-10-03T16:03:57 < mouseghost> yeah cleaning the desk is important too
2021-10-03T16:05:17 < mawk> it's raining too in fransse
2021-10-03T16:06:24 < mawk> I'm sitting under the rain
2021-10-03T16:06:29 < mawk> but I don't think it will stop anytime soon
2021-10-03T16:06:51 < mawk> it's time for a can of monster thanks for the reminder englishman 
2021-10-03T16:07:00 < mawk> mango or orange?
2021-10-03T16:07:20 < englishman> how about some oolong tea
2021-10-03T16:07:43 < mawk> it doesn't contain enough caffein
2021-10-03T16:07:48 < mawk> I need caffein to live
2021-10-03T16:08:03 < mawk> otherwise I fall asleep, even in the middle of a conversation
2021-10-03T16:08:11 < mawk> it's a small slightly annoying side effect of methadone
2021-10-03T16:08:14 < englishman> thats caffeine withdrawl
2021-10-03T16:08:23 < mawk> no it was like this even before
2021-10-03T16:08:30 < mawk> caffeine withdrawal is just migraine for me
2021-10-03T16:08:34 < englishman> thats lack of strenuous exercise and good sleep
2021-10-03T16:08:58 < mawk> well I think the high dose of a powerful painkiller has also to do with it
2021-10-03T16:09:01 < mawk> but yeah I don't exercise
2021-10-03T16:09:14 < mawk> it's bad for your health
2021-10-03T16:09:14 < mawk> you could injure yourself while running
2021-10-03T16:10:21 < mawk> I exercise my brain, which is a muscle according to some tabloid, so that's enough
2021-10-03T16:11:24 < mawk> to which angle should we rotate the parabola y = x² so that it intersects the x-axis at x = √2 ?
2021-10-03T16:11:35 < mawk> try it zyp it's loads of fun
2021-10-03T16:11:43 < mawk> better than the comic video you're currently watching
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2021-10-03T16:13:26 < Steffanx> Maybe some traum der suedsee tea, mawk https://shop.geelskoffiethee.com/media/image/46/66/1c/857-aromatisierter-schwarztee-traum-der-suedsee0lyJOm6VDfOSM.jpg
2021-10-03T16:13:50 < mawk> is it caffeinated?
2021-10-03T16:14:04 < mawk> maybe I should buy bulk caffeine powder to sprinkle in my coffee
2021-10-03T16:14:13 < Steffanx> it smells like strawberry bubble gum
2021-10-03T16:14:30 < mawk> my colleagues already find funny that I fill my cup to the brim with tight espressos at the coffee machine
2021-10-03T16:14:41 < mawk> they will love the caffeine sprinkles
2021-10-03T16:14:42 < Steffanx> its not decaffeinated..
2021-10-03T16:14:51 < mawk> yeah but tea has less than coffee
2021-10-03T16:14:55 < Steffanx> sure
2021-10-03T16:15:08 < Steffanx> i dont need more than whats already in there.
2021-10-03T16:15:16 < Steffanx> in stopped the coffee habbit
2021-10-03T16:15:30 < mawk> why
2021-10-03T16:16:18 < Steffanx> didnt make me feel good, especially in the weekend, after sleeping longer than usual.
2021-10-03T16:16:52 < mawk> well just keep drinking coffee in the weekend
2021-10-03T16:16:54 < mawk> easy fix
2021-10-03T16:17:33 < Steffanx> i feel much better and awake during the day, than i did when i started the day with coffee.
2021-10-03T16:20:24 < mawk> I don't really start the day with it
2021-10-03T16:20:32 < mawk> more like after lunch
2021-10-03T16:20:38 < mawk> until 6 or 7 pm
2021-10-03T16:20:42 < mawk> then I stop drinking it
2021-10-03T16:24:24 < Steffanx> Will you stay in france?
2021-10-03T16:47:15 < mawk> of course not
2021-10-03T16:47:19 < mawk> I'll come back next week
2021-10-03T16:47:23 < mawk> I'm dutchman now
2021-10-03T16:47:48 < mawk> I'm visiting the dying grandfather
2021-10-03T16:48:01 < mawk> he's got terminal cancer
2021-10-03T16:48:08 < mawk> but he still laughs when I tell jokes
2021-10-03T16:48:39 < mawk> I hope he dies before it gets even worse, a heart attack is cleaner than 1 year of hospital back and forth
2021-10-03T16:49:08 < mawk> especially with cancer the pain is stronger than all medication you could take
2021-10-03T16:51:11 < Steffanx> Or he just stops eating and drinking and calls it a day
2021-10-03T16:53:00 < Steffanx> That's what my grandma did
2021-10-03T16:53:03 < mawk> the nurse will force feed him
2021-10-03T16:53:10 < mawk> assisted suicide/euthanasia isn't legal
2021-10-03T16:54:41 < Steffanx> It's doing nothing, not assisting 😬
2021-10-03T16:54:50 < jpa-> time to visit grandson mawk who lives in the land of euthanasia
2021-10-03T16:55:47 < Steffanx> Euthanasia isn't THAT common here at all
2021-10-03T16:56:10 < jpa-> google just told me it is 4% of all deaths in netherlands
2021-10-03T16:56:29 < Steffanx> Google statistics 
2021-10-03T16:57:14 < jpa-> that's about as many as alcohol related deaths in finland, so it has to be a lot!
2021-10-03T16:59:11 < Steffanx> Anyway, I dont see it as a bad thing anyway. 
2021-10-03T16:59:20 < englishman> waffel overdose sounds like a good way to go.
2021-10-03T16:59:52 < Steffanx> Sounds painful
2021-10-03T17:00:07 < jpa-> euthanasia probably works ok there
2021-10-03T17:00:45 < jpa-> here if euthanasia was legal, public health facilities would start pressuring demented people to it so that they could stop exceeding their budgets
2021-10-03T17:01:17 < jpa-> they're already doing it with do-no-resuccitate orders and simialr
2021-10-03T17:01:24 < Steffanx> You'd think? Doesnt happen here.. not really. Dementia etc. makes it extremely difficult 
2021-10-03T17:01:45 < jpa-> yeah, as it should be
2021-10-03T17:11:14 < Steffanx> Such difficult subject. But in my case im totally fine with the decision of my grandma.
2021-10-03T17:14:42 < qyx> how did it end?
2021-10-03T17:16:46 < jpa-> my grandfather just kept doing his usual shenanigans with tractors and motor sawing etc. despite some relatives trying to get him to stop - finally hurt himself bad enough that he didn't recover, but i guess it was a fitting way to go
2021-10-03T17:24:11 < Steffanx> qyx: She stopped eating and drinking .. and died peacefully 
2021-10-03T17:38:55 < mawk> maybe she stopped because she was about to die
2021-10-03T17:38:58 < mawk> and not as a way to die
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2021-10-03T17:40:30 < mouseghost> yeah
2021-10-03T17:41:23 < Steffanx> Yes and no.
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2021-10-03T18:36:06 < catphish_> i was asking a couple of days ago how to correctly code: value = (value - 1) % n;
2021-10-03T18:36:13 < catphish_> the correct answer is in fact: value = (value + n - 1) % n;
2021-10-03T18:36:36 < catphish_> this eliminates the negative mess and works on unsigned counters :)
2021-10-03T18:44:17 < mawk> do you wear a koltun mouseghost ?
2021-10-03T18:44:23 < mouseghost> no mawk
2021-10-03T18:44:38 < mawk> yes catphish_ 
2021-10-03T18:45:35 < qyx> catphish_: uhm, is there any problem with value = (value - 1) % n; when both value and n are uint32_t for example?
2021-10-03T18:45:50 < qyx> oh yeah
2021-10-03T18:45:54 < qyx> when n != value
2021-10-03T18:46:22 < qyx> or better when n != UINT32_MAX
2021-10-03T18:46:34 < qyx> fukit, you know what I mean
2021-10-03T18:46:45 < catphish_> qyx: i hadn't even contemplated large value, in my case n is 6 :)
2021-10-03T18:50:45 < mawk> if you don't like overflow, do (value % n) - 1
2021-10-03T18:50:47 < mawk> then % n again
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2021-10-03T18:55:08 < mawk> +n-1 instead of -1 in C/C++ though
2021-10-03T18:55:14 < mawk> not needed in python
2021-10-03T18:55:59 < catphish_> this was specifically to address the problem in C when it goes negative
2021-10-03T18:56:30 < mawk> it's not a problem, it's perfectly consistent with Mathematics!
2021-10-03T18:56:48 < mawk> ((value % n) + (n-1))%n
2021-10-03T18:56:54 < mawk> ^that never overflows
2021-10-03T18:57:08 < mawk> or underflows
2021-10-03T18:57:46 < mawk> whenever I need to mod in C I do ((x % n) + n) % n to make it always positive
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2021-10-03T18:58:09 < mawk> but if probably equivalent to x >= 0 ? x % n : n + (x % n) in terms of CPU time
2021-10-03T18:58:27 < mawk> x % n is guaranteed to be between -n+1 and n-1
2021-10-03T19:00:04 < mawk> although the first thing is branchless, so maybe it's faster
2021-10-03T19:00:06 < mawk> and I like it better
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2021-10-03T19:11:03 < mawk> >everything in America is not bad for you. there is healthy food in every store and its affording. you have do do this thing called preparing it. sometimes you even have to cook something. you gotta apply heat in a controlled way. but seriously you're stupid. quit making excuses for being gluttonous. don't eat so much fucking dairy and fried junk. my family goes out for food once in a blue boon. there is this section in the market called "produce" 
2021-10-03T19:11:03 < mawk> right by where they sell raw meat. you should check it out and look at whats on sale, it typically has a special tag on it and it even tells you how much you save. and they got these recipes on the internet, videos and everything to help teach you how to prepare food. all you need to do after that is wash the dishes and shit in the fucking toilet, oh and wipe your own ass if you can. like and subscribe and hit that notification bell for more life 
2021-10-03T19:11:03 < mawk> hacks.
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2021-10-03T19:25:53 < jpa-> mawk: here in finland one can buy healthy, affordable just-stick-it-in-microwave food from stores also :)
2021-10-03T19:26:12 < mawk> lies
2021-10-03T19:26:26 < mawk> if you look at the list of ingredient with a magnifying glass you will read "carbohydrates: 130%"
2021-10-03T19:26:32 < mawk> it's always like this
2021-10-03T19:27:06 < mawk> not looking like junk food is not enough; industrials add sugar and shit everywhere even when we don't expect it
2021-10-03T19:27:30 < jpa-> that's improved a lot here over the past decade or two
2021-10-03T19:28:37 < jpa-> nowadays if one looks at the ingredients of premade food, it is basically the same stuff in same amounts as you would put at home
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2021-10-03T19:36:04 < mawk> I see
2021-10-03T19:36:05 < mawk> nice
2021-10-03T19:36:09 < mawk> in netherlands it's 100% junk food
2021-10-03T19:36:14 < mawk> and a potato aisle of course
2021-10-03T19:36:21 < mawk> maybe I don't visit the right store
2021-10-03T19:36:25 < Steffanx> ^
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2021-10-03T19:39:09 < jpa-> though apparently the most sold premade food in finland is liver casserole.. which tastes like junk but i guess isn't that terrible in terms of ingredients
2021-10-03T19:39:39 < mawk> do you eat potato 3 times a day Steffanx ?
2021-10-03T19:39:45 < mawk> in what store do you go
2021-10-03T19:39:45 < mawk> I just go to albert heijn because I like losing money on inflated prices
2021-10-03T19:39:46 < mawk> also because it's the cloest store
2021-10-03T19:39:46 < mawk> closest*
2021-10-03T19:40:34 < Steffanx> i dont eat pre-made food so often ;)
2021-10-03T19:40:52 < mawk> liver doesn't taste like junk
2021-10-03T19:40:55 < mawk> maybe junk liver
2021-10-03T19:41:03 < mawk> but good liver tastes good as the name implies
2021-10-03T19:41:11 < jpa-> i'm ok with liver paste and liver sausage, but not liver casserole
2021-10-03T19:41:15 < Steffanx> leverworst \o/
2021-10-03T19:41:19 < bitmask> gross
2021-10-03T19:41:22 < Steffanx> liver sausage on bread is good.
2021-10-03T19:41:37 < mawk> leverworst is fake processed stuff
2021-10-03T19:41:53 < mawk> I'm talking real liver fresh out of a beal
2021-10-03T19:41:54 < mawk> veal*
2021-10-03T19:42:03 < mawk> but leverworst is good yes, fake can be good
2021-10-03T19:42:10 < Steffanx> buy boerenleverworst at the local butcher
2021-10-03T19:42:16 < mawk> horse heart is good too
2021-10-03T19:42:18 < mawk> and liver
2021-10-03T19:42:26 < mawk> but dutch do not seem to enjoy horse so much
2021-10-03T19:42:38 < mawk> not on their plates anyway
2021-10-03T19:42:51 < Steffanx> no, im not sure why not.
2021-10-03T19:43:11 < mawk> there are no butchers in delft Steffanx 
2021-10-03T19:43:12 < mawk> there are like 10 inhabitants
2021-10-03T19:43:12 < mawk> or maybe I didn't look hard enough
2021-10-03T19:43:20 < Steffanx> a while back there was some scandal with horse meat sold as cow meat or something.. 
2021-10-03T19:43:24 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-03T19:43:25 < mawk> in lasagnas
2021-10-03T19:43:31 < bitmask> I stick to chicken pig and cow
2021-10-03T19:43:33 < mawk> it affected england too
2021-10-03T19:43:40 < mawk> and there horses are like cows in india
2021-10-03T19:43:41 < mawk> demigods
2021-10-03T19:43:57 < mawk> so a considerable amount of snob english ate horse without knowing it and they were pissed
2021-10-03T19:44:01 < Steffanx> and fish bitmask?
2021-10-03T19:44:07 < mawk> but they should be happy horse is more luxury than beef
2021-10-03T19:44:11 < bitmask> i like sushi but i dont like cooked fish
2021-10-03T19:44:12 < jpa-> brits will start eating their horses soon enough when they run out of gas to eat
2021-10-03T19:44:17 < mawk> lol
2021-10-03T19:44:24 < Steffanx> No salmon bitmask? Daaamn
2021-10-03T19:44:32 < Steffanx> baked salmon is great
2021-10-03T19:44:35 < mawk> salmon is full of heavy metals and radioactive japanese shit
2021-10-03T19:44:45 < mawk> unless you raised it by hand in your bathtub
2021-10-03T19:44:45 < bitmask> not cooked, cooking brings out the fishiness
2021-10-03T19:45:23 < mawk> you can do a half-baking bitmask 
2021-10-03T19:45:23 < bitmask> i mean i will eat cooked salmon but i dont fully enjoy it
2021-10-03T19:45:25 < mawk> with tuna it's very common
2021-10-03T19:45:29 < mawk> just cooked on the inside, raw on the inside
2021-10-03T19:45:44 < Steffanx> You should not over-cook salmon.. thats the key.
2021-10-03T19:45:58 < Steffanx> over-bake*
2021-10-03T19:46:03 < mawk> I prefer raw smoked salmon to cooked salmon
2021-10-03T19:46:13 < mawk> smoked salmon is always good, but you can fail cooking a salmon
2021-10-03T19:46:23 < mawk> also it makes you feel rich to eat smoked salmon
2021-10-03T19:46:34 < mawk> it's the stuff they always serve in rich people cocktails
2021-10-03T19:47:03 < Steffanx> what about some snails, bitmask?
2021-10-03T19:47:10 < bitmask> yuck
2021-10-03T19:47:14 < Steffanx> mawk can tell you all about those
2021-10-03T19:47:23 < mawk> you add some drops of lemon, a bit of pepper, a few salmon eggs, and you eat that on toast bread
2021-10-03T19:47:33 < mawk> I eat snail at every christmas with the family
2021-10-03T19:47:34 < mawk> why yuck
2021-10-03T19:47:39 < mawk> it tastes very good
2021-10-03T19:47:46 < mawk> with butter and parsley
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2021-10-03T19:49:11 < bitmask> i dont mind clams/mussels with a lot of butter, and lobster/crab legs the same although its usually not worth the effort. it was fun as a kid but spending 5 minutes getting to a tiny nibble of meat is annoying
2021-10-03T19:50:29 < mawk> so why not snails
2021-10-03T19:50:44 < bitmask> i just imagine the texture would be aweful
2021-10-03T19:50:51 < mawk> not really
2021-10-03T19:50:59 < mawk> it's a bit chewy but you don't feel the bits inside
2021-10-03T19:51:06 < mawk> it's just a solid block of black thing
2021-10-03T19:51:17 < mawk> the snailness disappeard, it's just like a mushroom after cooking
2021-10-03T19:51:23 < bitmask> yea chewy is what turns me off
2021-10-03T19:51:30 < mawk> a lot of seafood is
2021-10-03T19:51:39 < mawk> oysters are infinitely more weird in texture than snails
2021-10-03T19:51:47 < bitmask> never had an oyster actually
2021-10-03T19:51:50 < mawk> but a lot more people agree to eating oysters; because they're afraid of snail for no reaso
2021-10-03T19:52:08 < mawk> osyter is full of weird parts that breathe and bubble
2021-10-03T19:52:10 < mawk> you eat the thing still alive
2021-10-03T19:52:32 < mawk> even though you're supposed to cook it according to the CDC because oysters contain hepatitis A
2021-10-03T19:52:37 < mawk> but that's bs nobody cooks oysters
2021-10-03T19:52:43 < mawk> and you have effects from hepatitis A only if you have AIDS
2021-10-03T19:52:50 < mawk> they don't know how to enjoy things in USA
2021-10-03T19:53:15 < bitmask> how did you get me talking about food, im supposed to be reading
2021-10-03T19:53:19 < mawk> lol
2021-10-03T19:53:26 < Steffanx> You joined irc..
2021-10-03T19:53:31 < mawk> because I pasted a 4chan message I saw
2021-10-03T19:53:32 < mawk> and it was about food
2021-10-03T19:53:33 < bitmask> true
2021-10-03T19:53:43 < bitmask> well im always on irc
2021-10-03T19:53:52 < mawk> it was a reply to an american that said "I don't understand I weight 380lbs and I don't lose weight, what to do?"
2021-10-03T19:53:57 < Steffanx> but does mawk enjoy hutspot, boerenkoel, stampot andijvie yet?
2021-10-03T19:54:02 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-10-03T19:54:04 < mawk> I tried all of them
2021-10-03T19:54:17 < Steffanx> with a meat ball and a "kuiltje jus"?
2021-10-03T19:54:35 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-03T19:54:49 < mawk> with a gehaktballe, bieten en apelmos
2021-10-03T19:54:53 < PaulFertser> "The risk for symptomatic infection is directly related to age, with more than 80% of adults having symptoms compatible with acute viral hepatitis "
2021-10-03T19:54:55 < mawk> and jus everywhere
2021-10-03T19:55:19 < mawk> probably especially weak adults PaulFertser 
2021-10-03T19:55:29 < Steffanx> same as covid right?
2021-10-03T19:55:32 < mawk> I'm barely an adult and I eat a pack of 24 oysters are every christmas
2021-10-03T19:55:41 < mawk> and my liver is pristine; I know my liver is pristine because once I overdosed on paracetamol and didn't die
2021-10-03T19:55:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: being a weak adult must be common if 80 % of them develop symptoms :)
2021-10-03T19:56:01 < mawk> yeah these weak guys are everywhere
2021-10-03T19:56:28 < mawk> maybe they're all old
2021-10-03T19:56:51 < mawk> there are only like 10k deaths anually from hep A
2021-10-03T19:56:58 < mawk> and we know that oyster contains more or less always hep A
2021-10-03T19:57:14 < mawk> because they grow in water contaminated by sewage water coming from people with hep A
2021-10-03T19:57:23 < mawk> now that I said this phrase out loud I'm not sure I want to eat oysters again
2021-10-03T19:57:30 < jpa-> but what kind of idiot eats raw oysters
2021-10-03T19:57:36 < Steffanx> zhe french
2021-10-03T19:57:40 < mawk> the entirety of france
2021-10-03T19:57:43 < PaulFertser> Having " nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, jaundice, fever, " for 8 weeks is better than death but still no fun.
2021-10-03T19:58:01 < jpa-> oh, are those the same people who burn cars every time they are dissatisfied with something?
2021-10-03T19:58:27 < mawk> the people that do that burn their own cars it's so stupid
2021-10-03T19:58:38 < mawk> I mean they do it in their local neighborhood, among the same social class
2021-10-03T19:58:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: probably you already got it when you were a kid and gained immunity.
2021-10-03T19:58:48 < mawk> karim is burning the car that fatima needed to take the next morning to go to work at 5am
2021-10-03T19:58:53 < mawk> yeah PaulFertser 
2021-10-03T20:00:13 < mawk> actually I'm probably vaccinated PaulFertser 
2021-10-03T20:00:30 < mawk> but I'm not sure, my mother was quite antivax around when I was born; I think it's hepatitis B where I wasn't vaccinated
2021-10-03T20:00:49 < mawk> because some dummy on TV was vociferating about the dangers of the vaccine and how it makes people autistic
2021-10-03T20:00:55 < Steffanx> but you've got it.. all the needles and shit you re-used
2021-10-03T20:01:04 < mawk> I never used a needle Steffanx 
2021-10-03T20:01:16 < mawk> anyway it's hep C that transmits with needle, and it's much more dangerous than the other two
2021-10-03T20:01:24 < mawk> there's no vaccine, no cure; just liver transplant
2021-10-03T20:06:15 < Steffanx> lol ok mawk
2021-10-03T20:07:04 < mawk> I always preferred using the good old rolled euro bill Steffanx 
2021-10-03T20:07:20 < mawk> once I even had a 200€ bill dedicated for that
2021-10-03T20:07:37 < Steffanx> until you used that to get more?
2021-10-03T20:07:44 < mawk> yeah
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2021-10-03T22:38:24 < kakium007> sup night crew
2021-10-03T22:40:11 < kakium007> how is innovate?
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2021-10-03T23:10:06 < Steffanx> dead.
2021-10-03T23:10:17 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-10-03T23:10:51 < Steffanx> So now looking for a movie too watch. What about you mr kakium007?
2021-10-03T23:14:57 < kakium007> knifes out?
2021-10-03T23:21:19 < Steffanx> Already seen 8t
2021-10-03T23:21:20 < Steffanx> It
2021-10-03T23:21:26 < Steffanx> I settled on Nobody
2021-10-03T23:46:18 < Steffanx> If you're bored try Free Guy, kakium007 
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2021-10-03T23:47:08 < kakium007> worth paying 3.99eur?
2021-10-03T23:47:31 < Steffanx> Nah, not sure 
2021-10-03T23:47:46 < Steffanx> I paid a whopping 0.00 euro 
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--- Day changed Mon Oct 04 2021
2021-10-04T00:00:36 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804210713982926894/893643304074371082/image0.png
2021-10-04T00:16:53 < Steffanx> Ty...
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2021-10-04T05:18:17 < aandrew> jadew: you look like a completely new person, wow
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2021-10-04T12:42:07 < mawk> I've been misgendered by an old catholic priest
2021-10-04T12:42:21 < mawk> he called me miss, then told how beautiful I am
2021-10-04T12:42:29 < mawk> beautiful conjugated to the feminine gender, in frencj
2021-10-04T12:42:30 < mawk> french
2021-10-04T12:42:44 < mawk> I guess he missed his glasses and just saw long hair
2021-10-04T12:43:33 < catphish_> aww
2021-10-04T12:43:56 < mawk> he heard my voice thougj
2021-10-04T12:44:15 < mawk> maybe he thought I was a trans-fluid-genderschmilblick
2021-10-04T12:48:29 < catphish_> and you're not?
2021-10-04T12:48:47 < mawk> not really
2021-10-04T12:49:10 < mawk> I just have long hair
2021-10-04T12:49:28 < catphish_> that's the first step
2021-10-04T12:49:39 < mawk> :(
2021-10-04T12:49:50 < catphish_> soon you'll be comparing prices for top surgery
2021-10-04T12:50:18 < mawk> :((
2021-10-04T12:51:20 < catphish_> it could be worst, you could have spent 3 hours yesterday trying to debug CAN interface code, only to finally realise that you'd mounted the line driver chip upside down
2021-10-04T12:52:01 < mawk> lol
2021-10-04T12:52:17 < mawk> yeah I wouldn't want to be that person
2021-10-04T12:52:23 < mawk> how don't have a LA?
2021-10-04T12:52:27 < mawk> you*
2021-10-04T12:52:29 < zyp> I prefer mounting them diagonally https://bin.jvnv.net/file/onqan.jpg
2021-10-04T12:52:40 < mawk> lol zyp 
2021-10-04T12:52:56 < catphish_> wow
2021-10-04T12:53:22 < qyx> how did you manage to error it that way
2021-10-04T12:53:23 < catphish_> mawk: i do have a LA and a scope, this is how i finally solved it, but i wasn't expecting a hardware problem
2021-10-04T12:54:23 < zyp> qyx, I didn't design it
2021-10-04T12:54:48 < catphish_> on the plus side, i now have a stepper motor controlled by CAN :) https://imgur.com/a/AxDfSKq
2021-10-04T12:55:31 < mawk> did you thoroughly whip the designer when that happened zyp?
2021-10-04T12:59:33 < zyp> looking at the pinout, pins 1-4 are respectively TX, GND, VCC, RX, so I guess somebody made a schematic symbol going VCC, RX, TX, GND to have VCC on the top and GND on the bottom
2021-10-04T12:59:46 < zyp> and then had a brainfart and labelling them 1-4 in order
2021-10-04T13:00:06 < zyp> maybe even the datasheet had a symbol with that order
2021-10-04T13:01:10 < zyp> I reviewed the schematic before the boards were made, but I didn't check the pinout of every single component, so I didn't catch that
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2021-10-04T13:24:06 < catphish_> when i make symbols i just make all the pins first copying the name and number of each from the datasheet before i start positioning them
2021-10-04T13:26:26 < zyp> same
2021-10-04T13:26:53 < zyp> well, probably not always for small ones like that though
2021-10-04T13:27:52 < zyp> but for something large, absolutely: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nhWIw.png
2021-10-04T13:29:15 < catphish_> wow
2021-10-04T13:29:29 < catphish_> i wonder if kicad has a way to bulk add them like that
2021-10-04T13:29:44 < catphish_> i always have to manually add each one, they end up all over the place
2021-10-04T13:30:54 < zyp> how that symbol ended up: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/guBkA.png
2021-10-04T13:32:07 < qyx> last time I was super lazy to check any svd to symbol converter
2021-10-04T13:32:26 < qyx> so I grep/sed the svd and appended it to the kicad file
2021-10-04T13:34:18 < zyp> lattice got csv files of the pinouts and altium has a spreadsheet kind of view of pins for a symbol
2021-10-04T13:34:47 < zyp> so I can just open the csv in google docs, massage it and copypaste straight into altium
2021-10-04T13:55:52 < karlp> there'sa  spreadsheet pin editor in kicad too,it's handy.
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2021-10-04T14:40:46 < jadew> aandrew, haha, yeah, it's the vegan diet
2021-10-04T15:06:23 < jadew> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/04/britain-deploys-army-to-deliver-fuel-amid-panic-buying-and-shortages.html
2021-10-04T15:06:32 < jadew> what's going on in the UK?
2021-10-04T15:07:29 < jadew> are they turning into a shithole already or there's a bigger story there?
2021-10-04T15:08:02 < jadew> Pickering noted that panic buying could become a feature of the U.K. economy — which he described as “unnerving.”
2021-10-04T15:16:03 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJcUJMcSak4
2021-10-04T15:16:43 < jadew> $3250
2021-10-04T15:16:58 < jadew> the early bird special
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2021-10-04T16:45:11 < aandrew> yeah I saw that CNC, looks pretty nice but I don't know if it's $4000 nice
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2021-10-04T17:07:07 < jadew> aandrew, I agree
2021-10-04T17:07:15 < jadew> the spindle is not powerful enough
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2021-10-04T17:07:37 < jadew> I just got margin called
2021-10-04T17:07:41 < jadew> -6k :/
2021-10-04T17:08:04 < zyp> thanks for playing
2021-10-04T17:08:39 < jadew> yeah... I wouldn't have closed the position if it wasn't on margin
2021-10-04T17:09:35 < jadew> I'm sure that turd is going to bounce back this month
2021-10-04T17:09:55 < jadew> but I hope it's going to crash and burn instead, now that I'm out of it
2021-10-04T17:27:55 < aandrew> jadew: I have an actual like 4000kg bridgeport knee mill in my garage
2021-10-04T17:28:15 < aandrew> gotta throw a dc motor on it and moutning plate for the motor. it's full manual, no DRO or anything, but I'd rather invest in turning that into a CNC
2021-10-04T17:28:32 < jadew> oh, that's nice
2021-10-04T17:28:35 < aandrew> jadew: what were you margin called on?
2021-10-04T17:28:37 < jadew> wish I had the space for one
2021-10-04T17:28:41 < aandrew> I have $0 in investments. safest place to be
2021-10-04T17:28:43 < jadew> aandrew, on Alibaba
2021-10-04T17:28:45 < BrainDamage> big & sturdy alwayss win ... when you can fit it
2021-10-04T17:28:55 < aandrew> hm?
2021-10-04T17:29:17 < jadew> aandrew, alibaba = alibaba.com aliexpress, taobao, and much more
2021-10-04T17:29:51 < jadew> it went down because the chinese goverment passed some laws to regulate some sectors and the media piled in with the FUD
2021-10-04T17:30:20 < jadew> then to top it off, the govt. made them "donate" 15 billion dollars for the "common prosperity good"
2021-10-04T17:30:47 < jadew> that's pretty much the thing that solidified the downtrend of the entire chinese stock market
2021-10-04T17:32:02 < jadew> basically nobody knows how much chinese stocks are worth anymore - if anything
2021-10-04T17:32:32 < jadew> otherwise, based on fundamentals, alibaba is the best deal on the stock market right now
2021-10-04T17:33:08 < jadew> but again, its recovery is uncertain
2021-10-04T17:33:14 < jadew> anyway, I have to think about something else
2021-10-04T17:33:35 < aandrew> jadew: no I understand what alibaba is
2021-10-04T17:34:04 < aandrew> my question is wtf happened that you lost money on it? you had an order placed on some credit and they called it before the price dropped where you wanted?
2021-10-04T17:34:25 < jadew> I had a position opened that was worth 34k
2021-10-04T17:34:39 < jadew> but I bought in on margin, meaning I only put down 20% of that
2021-10-04T17:34:48 < aandrew> or you've got a short position on alibaba and your trading co called you
2021-10-04T17:34:52 < aandrew> ah
2021-10-04T17:35:02 < aandrew> ok not parts, but actual stock that makes much more sense
2021-10-04T17:35:15 < jadew> when the stock dropped, I lost money relative to the 34k
2021-10-04T17:35:39 < jadew> I did have some more free money in the account, so it could eat from while it's dropping, but I didn't anticipate such a big dip
2021-10-04T17:35:53 < aandrew> oh ok you weren't shorting, just a standard (margin) buy
2021-10-04T17:35:57 < jadew> yeah
2021-10-04T17:36:51 < jadew> I bought on the uptrend, thinking that it's finally starting to recover (and I think it was), but soon after the really bad news started to pile in and completely destroyed it
2021-10-04T17:36:52 < aandrew> that sucks
2021-10-04T17:37:05 < aandrew> yeah china is a really weird place to try to make money righ tnow. very risky
2021-10-04T17:37:06 < jadew> yeah, my biggest loss to date
2021-10-04T17:37:20 < jadew> the whole market is risky
2021-10-04T17:37:25 < jadew> this was the only stock that made sense
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2021-10-04T17:41:48 < jadew> aandrew, I think I saw a bridgeport to CNC conversion a while ago
2021-10-04T17:47:55 < jadew> regarding the CNC in the video, I think it's still cool for PCB production
2021-10-04T17:49:19 < jadew> especially for RF I think, just like Shahriar is demonstrating, because it allows you to test various components very fast
2021-10-04T17:49:41 < aandrew> oh yeah it's capable enough for small/light stuff which is what I'd be doing
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2021-10-04T19:22:23 < Steffanx> Ohno, what will we do? Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram are broken 😱😱😱😱
2021-10-04T19:22:59 -!- amstan [~amstan@2001:470:69fc:105::1e9] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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2021-10-04T19:40:01 < bitmask> the world has ended
2021-10-04T19:41:11 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@mob-194-230-148-202.cgn.sunrise.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T19:41:46 < qyx> for so long?
2021-10-04T19:42:39 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-10-04T19:45:18 < qyx> what will people do? look under their beds and pull out CB radios?
2021-10-04T19:47:50 < Steffanx> If CB means Chaturbate, then yes 
2021-10-04T19:48:38 < Steffanx> My sister is one of those facebook addicts. She just said "it's boring without fb and instagram" 😓
2021-10-04T19:49:27 < sauce> cybersex over hf is a concept i didnt need implanted in my head today thanks
2021-10-04T19:52:37 -!- Helmholtz [~leibnizma@2001:470:69fc:105::3124] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-10-04T19:53:42 < Steffanx> Haha, you're welcome sauce
2021-10-04T19:58:58 < Steffanx> Need more concepts implanted?
2021-10-04T20:00:21 -!- Helmholtz [~leibnizma@2001:470:69fc:105::3124] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T20:00:32 < sauce> join us friday nights for ft8 erotic roleplay on 40 metres
2021-10-04T20:00:37 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2604:3d08:937e:d600::8011] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T20:00:41 < machinehum> hi
2021-10-04T20:01:58 < BrainDamage> so ham contests are the equivalent of an orgy?
2021-10-04T20:10:06 < machinehum> BrainDamage: Yes
2021-10-04T20:10:08 < machinehum> They
2021-10-04T20:10:11 < machinehum> They're pretty dumb
2021-10-04T20:10:40 < Steffanx> Too bad I don't what it needs to participate
2021-10-04T20:10:56 -!- Coldberg [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T20:12:34 < machinehum> I can't think of a more useless hobby than ham
2021-10-04T20:12:37 < machinehum> I got my call sign
2021-10-04T20:12:56 < machinehum> And have not used it once
2021-10-04T20:13:18 < machinehum> If you wanna listen to old white men talk about mowing their lawns and fixing their cars ham is for you
2021-10-04T20:13:39 -!- Ikkepop [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-10-04T20:15:53 < qyx> you can build your multiwatt radios legally now
2021-10-04T20:16:10 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-04T20:35:34 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2021-10-04T20:41:49 < Steffanx> Milliwatt is A LOT qyx. You keep saying that all the time 
2021-10-04T20:42:37 < qyx> I said multiwatt, Steffanx 
2021-10-04T20:43:02 < Steffanx> Ooh
2021-10-04T20:43:04 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-10-04T20:43:14 < Steffanx> Reading is hard
2021-10-04T20:43:20 < qyx> your joke is void
2021-10-04T20:43:29 < Steffanx> I love telegram, you can edit your message there :D
2021-10-04T20:43:40 < Steffanx> I'm sorry qyx. Will you forgive me?
2021-10-04T20:43:53 < Steffanx> Can I send you a stm32 to make it up?
2021-10-04T20:44:01 < qyx> not today
2021-10-04T20:44:22 < Steffanx> Stroopwafels?
2021-10-04T20:44:38 < qyx> today is not the right day to forget and forgive, it is monday
2021-10-04T20:44:53 < Steffanx> blue monday for you?
2021-10-04T20:45:44 < qyx> I spent the whole night beaking about the backplane
2021-10-04T20:45:50 < qyx> I lost nearly 8 hours
2021-10-04T20:51:47 < Steffanx> So sleep 8 hours less and... fone
2021-10-04T20:51:49 < Steffanx> Done
2021-10-04T20:52:05 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T20:57:20 -!- LuminaxWk is now known as Luminax
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2021-10-04T21:01:41 < upgrdman> is there a chart/tool to see if two stm32 chips are pin-compatible and list the differences in periphs/sram/flash?
2021-10-04T21:03:42 < qyx> diff the svd files?
2021-10-04T21:03:54 < qyx> for pin differences at least
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2021-10-04T21:32:08 < kakium69> kokainium
2021-10-04T21:36:37 -!- catphish_ [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-10-04T21:36:45 < bitmask> drugs are bad... mkayyy
2021-10-04T21:39:05 < Steffanx> Are they?
2021-10-04T21:40:31 < bitmask> nope
2021-10-04T21:40:47 < kakium69> I cannot say
2021-10-04T21:42:40 < Steffanx> me neither, no personal experience
2021-10-04T21:45:46 < bitmask> i think its very dependent on the person.  they are bad for me
2021-10-04T21:46:33 < Steffanx> But hows your facebook, instagram and whatsapp withdrawal kakium69?
2021-10-04T21:46:56 < kakium69> it was bad during works
2021-10-04T21:47:13 < kakium69> how to spend time in works other than quick messaging
2021-10-04T21:48:43 < kakium69> but now I'm at ircs and the "rush hour" of quick messaging is over so no problems
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2021-10-04T22:39:10 < jadew> upgrdman, I made something that could do the second part a while ago, several years ago but it's not working anymore
2021-10-04T22:39:29 < jadew> I was going to revive the project, so I might have it online in a week or so
2021-10-04T22:39:39 < upgrdman> k
2021-10-04T22:49:10 < machinehum> I heard it's a really bad zeroday
2021-10-04T22:49:14 < machinehum> FB
2021-10-04T22:49:29 < jadew> I hope they never recover
2021-10-04T22:50:00 < jadew> their stupid AI banned by ads account
2021-10-04T22:50:25 < jadew> thought I'm trying to confuse the users with weird text
2021-10-04T22:50:32 < machinehum> What were you advertising jadew? Your IOT dildos?
2021-10-04T22:50:34 < Steffanx> Didn't you work there machinehum ?
2021-10-04T22:50:41 < jadew> machinehum, a LNA
2021-10-04T22:50:53 < machinehum> Steffanx: Yeah
2021-10-04T22:50:56 < machinehum> Currently actually
2021-10-04T22:50:59 < machinehum> Shit's hilarious
2021-10-04T22:51:09 < Steffanx> So big party?
2021-10-04T22:51:21 < jadew> the stupid bot got confused by the text (twice) and eventually locked me out completely
2021-10-04T22:51:24 < machinehum> lol yeah we're busting out the sunscreen and loading up
2021-10-04T22:51:25 < jadew> with no way of recourse
2021-10-04T22:51:32 < Steffanx> No secret insider info for us?
2021-10-04T22:52:34 < machinehum> Rumors are saying a zeroday
2021-10-04T22:52:45 < machinehum> But idk I don't even work for that part of the company
2021-10-04T22:53:04 < machinehum> https://vvazw1o18pf4bhdd434btzh7-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Mark-Zuckerberg-Spooks-the-Internet-With-Too-Much-Sunscreen-on-His-Face-in-Hawaii-01-1.jpg
2021-10-04T22:53:04 < Steffanx> But you still can work?
2021-10-04T22:53:04 < mouseghost> machinehum, u work at fb?
2021-10-04T22:53:13 < machinehum> I do
2021-10-04T22:53:24 < machinehum> Steffanx: Nah all the internal shit is all down
2021-10-04T22:53:27 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-04T22:53:35 < mouseghost> yeah i heard so that all the tools were based on that dns kinda lmao
2021-10-04T22:53:57 < machinehum> I don't even know how people can fix this shit all the VCS is integrated and down as well
2021-10-04T22:54:12 < machinehum> Like we can't push code
2021-10-04T22:54:17 < machinehum> So how fix code?
2021-10-04T22:54:31 < kakium69> they need super hacker dude
2021-10-04T22:54:42 < kakium69> that saves the day like in a movie
2021-10-04T22:54:53 < kakium69> accessing shits in 5seconds flat
2021-10-04T22:55:01 < machinehum> I immagine there's a bunch of nerd sliding keyboards out of racks right now working directly on the mainframe
2021-10-04T22:55:11 < jadew> who would do this tho?
2021-10-04T22:55:19 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-04T22:55:41 < machinehum> The social media platform we all know and love? Why would someone do something like this?
2021-10-04T22:55:52 < srk> :D:D
2021-10-04T22:55:58 < mouseghost> "ah of course, a mouse bit through the cable!"
2021-10-04T22:56:15 < jadew> seriously, if you're in the position in which you can do that, you have to have a really good reason to do it, or you have to be a moron to do it
2021-10-04T22:57:01 < jadew> why would you compromise your access to one of the biggest databanks in the world, without a good reason?
2021-10-04T22:57:07 < mouseghost> its zucc's kid that clicked something in the computer, i bet
2021-10-04T22:58:26 < machinehum> zucc spilt sunscreen on his keyboard
2021-10-04T22:58:34 < Steffanx> in wonder when the movie will be release. 
2021-10-04T22:58:36 < Steffanx> d
2021-10-04T22:58:46 < mawk> which moevie
2021-10-04T22:58:57 < mawk> mission impossible: mainframe thunder
2021-10-04T22:59:00 < machinehum> We have these internal meeting things with zucc, some people are so fucking vicious it's hilarious
2021-10-04T22:59:03 < Steffanx> yeah
2021-10-04T22:59:13 < jadew> let's see how long it lasts and what news we're missing because of it
2021-10-04T22:59:13 < mawk> agent 007: nibble of solace
2021-10-04T22:59:29 < kakium69> machinehum: you know zucc?
2021-10-04T22:59:37 < Steffanx> you know more about movies than i thought you did mawk
2021-10-04T22:59:39 < mouseghost> does he have a long tail???
2021-10-04T22:59:45 < mawk> why Steffanx 
2021-10-04T22:59:56 < machinehum> Once someone commented that "Zucc looks like someone pulled human skin over an alien"
2021-10-04T22:59:58 < Steffanx> math/meth are the two things in life.
2021-10-04T23:00:08 < mawk> nonsense Steffanx 
2021-10-04T23:00:10 < machinehum> He acknowledged it
2021-10-04T23:00:14 < mawk> I do a bunch of other things
2021-10-04T23:00:34 < mawk> and I don't even like meth
2021-10-04T23:00:39 < kakium69> he survived crash of a spacecraft by turning himself to power save mode?
2021-10-04T23:01:43 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-04T23:01:52 < Steffanx> the facebook stock is doing great though
2021-10-04T23:02:30 < kakium69> machinehum: are you using google cloud to communicate as your internal network is in shits?
2021-10-04T23:03:05 < jadew> Steffanx, went down 5%
2021-10-04T23:03:25 < Steffanx> i know => great
2021-10-04T23:03:44 < jadew> ah :)
2021-10-04T23:03:49 < machinehum> kakium69: Nah
2021-10-04T23:03:53 < machinehum> We use some google shit
2021-10-04T23:03:56 < machinehum> Drive
2021-10-04T23:04:08 < kakium69> why?
2021-10-04T23:05:18 < machinehum> Share files, work on shit
2021-10-04T23:05:26 < machinehum> idk, drive shit
2021-10-04T23:05:36 < kakium69> normal drive shit
2021-10-04T23:08:36 < kakium69> mouseghost: do you have a "connection" with mouse?
2021-10-04T23:09:13 < kakium69> I have a pet mouse
2021-10-04T23:09:26 < mouseghost> kakium69, what do you mean
2021-10-04T23:10:50 < kakium69> can you talk to mouse?
2021-10-04T23:11:24 < Steffanx> we just concluded drugs are baaad, kakium69...
2021-10-04T23:11:29 < Steffanx> talking to mice?
2021-10-04T23:11:49 < oz4ga> just like scotty in star trek IV :)
2021-10-04T23:11:50 < kakium69> :p
2021-10-04T23:13:01 < kakium69> my pet mouse is inside ceiling now trying to dig through
2021-10-04T23:15:08 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-10-04T23:31:32 < kakium69> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/21/10/03/1712218/why-chip-constrained-carmakers-cant-just-transition-to-newer-chips?sbsrc=md
2021-10-04T23:32:47 < zyp> as if newer chips have better availability
2021-10-04T23:33:42 < kakium69> obscure new chip yes
2021-10-04T23:34:02 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@12.69.225.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-10-04T23:35:19 < kakium69> slashdot comment about fb news: "Maybe the Internet is finally detected the problem and routing around it, as intended."
2021-10-04T23:40:15 < specing> they could transition back to no chips
2021-10-04T23:42:50 < kakium69> the new TDI with a mechanical pump!
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--- Day changed Tue Oct 05 2021
2021-10-05T00:07:48 < machinehum> How the shit do you manage a zephyr project
2021-10-05T00:08:00 < machinehum> Like I just want a simple fucking thing that does a thing
2021-10-05T00:10:33 < qyx> then zephyr is not for you
2021-10-05T00:12:51 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-05T00:14:22 < srk> xDD
2021-10-05T00:15:28 < jadew> oh upgrdman left
2021-10-05T00:15:33 < jadew> my shit is still working
2021-10-05T00:16:17 < jadew> should put it online, although it's not finished
2021-10-05T00:16:48 < jadew> I remember how excited I was about this project... don't know why I don't just finish things
2021-10-05T00:21:26 < qyx> you mean the temperature datalogger?
2021-10-05T00:22:16 < jadew> no, it's a tool to filter out through all the MCUs out there based on their properties, with better granularity than you get on online shops
2021-10-05T00:23:02 < qyx> where do you plan to get the data?
2021-10-05T00:23:05 < jadew> it only had STM and Atmel when I gave up on it, but it's working really nice
2021-10-05T00:23:06 < qyx> correct one I mean
2021-10-05T00:23:22 < BrainDamage> i have a solution for you: put it online anonymously
2021-10-05T00:23:33 < BrainDamage> then you won't care what people think about it
2021-10-05T00:23:54 < jadew> qyx, I don't remember, that was the biggest challenge, but at the time I had complete info on both atmel and st
2021-10-05T00:24:16 < jadew> BrainDamage, it's not about what people think, I just wanted it to be ready, and I moved on to other projects
2021-10-05T00:24:27 < jadew> I think that's when I decided to do the prescalers
2021-10-05T00:25:17 < BrainDamage> don't let the perfect be the enemy of good
2021-10-05T00:25:24 < jadew> picture incoming
2021-10-05T00:25:33 < karlp> it's jadew we're talking to remember?
2021-10-05T00:26:28 < jadew> http://5.12.176.43/stuff/sb.png
2021-10-05T00:26:45 < jadew> so basically a very good filtering tool
2021-10-05T00:27:28 < jadew> I wanted it to answer the following question: what MCU has this many IOs, and has the following peripherals and in these numbers:
2021-10-05T00:27:29 < machinehum> jadew: You made this?
2021-10-05T00:27:33 < jadew> machinehum, yeah
2021-10-05T00:28:21 < jadew> and it's superior to any selector you find on mouser/farnell/etc
2021-10-05T00:28:33 < machinehum> Decent
2021-10-05T00:28:45 < jadew> in the sense that the data is properly grouped and more complete
2021-10-05T00:28:48 < machinehum> How did you get all the data in there?
2021-10-05T00:29:05 < jadew> I think with Atmel I scraped their website
2021-10-05T00:29:12 < jadew> but they don't have it anymore
2021-10-05T00:29:25 < jadew> I also seem to have several GB of datasheets
2021-10-05T00:30:35 < jadew> I'm glad I got it working on windows because it wasn't last time I tried
2021-10-05T00:30:44 < machinehum> And what did you do with the datasheets?
2021-10-05T00:30:47 < machinehum> Scrape em?
2021-10-05T00:30:50 < jadew> yeah
2021-10-05T00:30:53 < jadew> I have them all
2021-10-05T00:30:54 < machinehum> damn
2021-10-05T00:31:05 < machinehum> So will you sell this?
2021-10-05T00:31:14 < jadew> I was planning to give it out for free
2021-10-05T00:31:18 < machinehum> lame
2021-10-05T00:31:26 < machinehum> Make some SAS model or some shit
2021-10-05T00:31:39 < machinehum> Monthly revenue
2021-10-05T00:32:17 < machinehum> Can you somehow get the cost in there?
2021-10-05T00:32:46 < jadew> yeah, I think that's what I was working on when I stopped
2021-10-05T00:33:31 < jadew> I'll have to look at my todo list, but it's one of the projects that got me excited, because I knew it would be really useful for me
2021-10-05T00:33:47 < jadew> so I was planning lots of cool stuff
2021-10-05T00:33:48 < kakium69> ad revenue
2021-10-05T00:34:15 < kakium69> from users that all use ublock though
2021-10-05T00:34:32 < jadew> eh, I'm sure it can be monetized somehow, without being a PITA
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2021-10-05T00:35:44 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXoZ6_YNTs toyota had enough of people calling their cars boring
2021-10-05T00:38:02 < GenTooMan> hmm I think it's much better to be boring than have sudden acceleration issues duh to software bugs in the ECU.
2021-10-05T00:39:23 < kakium69> why not have both?
2021-10-05T00:39:48 < kakium69> was it hyndae or something korean?
2021-10-05T00:42:44 < BrainDamage> toyota camry
2021-10-05T00:43:04 < GenTooMan> Yeah and they were found to be negligent as well.
2021-10-05T00:44:53 < jadew> oh, and it looks the comparison feature is already done
2021-10-05T00:44:58 < jadew> man... I did it so nice
2021-10-05T00:46:03 < jadew> ok, I'm back on this
2021-10-05T00:46:52 < jadew> will launch next week, as it is and will issue updates as I improve it, rather than just sit on it forever until I think it's ready
2021-10-05T00:49:36 < kakium69> BrainDamage: definitelly both
2021-10-05T00:51:11 < mawk> jadew https://youtu.be/CEgwg5I0qyM
2021-10-05T00:51:37 < mawk> you have to do it
2021-10-05T00:51:59 < jadew> just because the problem came from Romania it doesn't mean it's my fault :P
2021-10-05T00:52:04 < mawk> :(
2021-10-05T00:52:21 < mawk> you need to solve the problem to save the world
2021-10-05T00:53:29 < jadew> I can probably bruteforce it
2021-10-05T00:53:40 < mawk> I'm not sure about that
2021-10-05T00:53:47 < mawk> you need to find all such sequences
2021-10-05T00:53:52 < mawk> in the entire universe
2021-10-05T00:54:00 < jadew> oh
2021-10-05T00:56:03 < mawk> I think it's not too hard
2021-10-05T00:56:21 < mawk> if you try to see what a_1 + a_2 + … + a_n is
2021-10-05T00:56:36 < jadew> I don't have the mental state for math atm
2021-10-05T00:57:30 < jadew> down for losing money and looking for something to work on, so I can move on\
2021-10-05T00:59:11 < mawk> but your money is already lost since a week or so
2021-10-05T00:59:18 < mawk> you can stop thinking about it
2021-10-05T00:59:41 < kakium69> what happened week ago?
2021-10-05T00:59:45 < jadew> they margin called me today
2021-10-05T01:00:05 < kakium69> who?
2021-10-05T01:00:14 < jadew> brokers
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2021-10-05T01:02:08 < kakium69> whoa
2021-10-05T01:03:02 < jadew> on the upside, I don't have to pay any income tax next year for these activities
2021-10-05T01:03:29 < kakium69> there is nothing to pay tax for
2021-10-05T01:03:47 < jadew> yeah
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2021-10-05T06:21:54 < jadew> is there been a 3dhubs alternative yet?
2021-10-05T06:22:04 < jadew> I need some higher precision stuff printed
2021-10-05T06:37:05 < aandrew> I'm installing win95 in a vm
2021-10-05T06:37:10 < aandrew> fuck it's weird
2021-10-05T06:38:41 < aandrew> it's also stuck installing multimedia components
2021-10-05T06:54:54 < jadew> lol, I found out of a way of dealing with neighbours that get headaches and other health issues from HAM antennas
2021-10-05T06:55:31 < jadew> you install it and don't use for a couple of months haha
2021-10-05T06:56:41 < jadew> I could see this working with other types of antennas
2021-10-05T07:09:51 < aandrew> yep
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2021-10-05T08:59:06 < octorian> jadew, there's Craftcloud.  And they actually tell you which manufacturer your order is being placed with.
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2021-10-05T11:12:45 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Steffanx
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2021-10-05T11:46:12 < Steffanx> What's wrong with shapeways jadew  ?
2021-10-05T11:52:45 < invzim> damn chinese holidays
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2021-10-05T15:17:25 < jadew> octorian, Steffanx, thanks, I'll check them out
2021-10-05T15:34:51 < HelloShitty> Hello
2021-10-05T15:35:00 < HelloShitty> Where do we assist to ST webinars?
2021-10-05T15:35:25 < HelloShitty> There is going to be one in 30 mins, I guess, but I never attended any and I have no idea how to join it
2021-10-05T15:36:53 < tct> HelloShitty, usually you need to sign-up upfront
2021-10-05T15:37:01 < HelloShitty> yes, I already did
2021-10-05T15:37:18 < HelloShitty> but then it's in that same site? something event.on ?
2021-10-05T15:37:27 < tct> HelloShitty, then you should have received an invitation (link) or some "sorry, but nope".
2021-10-05T15:37:45 < HelloShitty> Hum, not yet
2021-10-05T15:38:03 < HelloShitty> just an email saying it starts in 1h or so
2021-10-05T15:39:28 < HelloShitty> When I click on the link sent to me by email
2021-10-05T15:39:45 < HelloShitty> I go to this event.on24.com site
2021-10-05T15:39:56 < Steffanx> karlp might know.
2021-10-05T15:40:38 < HelloShitty> and in the link itself, I can see an eventID, sessionID, key and eventuserID
2021-10-05T15:41:02 < tct> that sounds good
2021-10-05T15:41:16 < tct> no idea where you have to enter that tho, sorry. was there no link supplied with this information?
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2021-10-05T15:42:35 < HelloShitty> it was an email
2021-10-05T15:42:41 < HelloShitty> with a "Join" button
2021-10-05T15:42:52 < HelloShitty> which leads me to this event.on24.com site
2021-10-05T15:42:52 < catphish> morning
2021-10-05T15:43:36 < tct> I can't access event.on24.com
2021-10-05T15:45:27 < HelloShitty> well, I'll wait then
2021-10-05T15:49:21 < Steffanx> Hello tct. Long time no see
2021-10-05T15:49:32 < Steffanx> Are you being helpful?
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2021-10-05T15:51:57 < tct> Steffanx, I try to be, but not always successful.
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2021-10-05T16:00:38 < HelloShitty> tct: I think I'm in the right place
2021-10-05T16:00:48 < HelloShitty> The webinar is starting I guess in that site
2021-10-05T16:01:42 < tct> HelloShitty, alright - enjoy :)
2021-10-05T16:02:43 < ventyl> learning about pieces of silicon which won't be available
2021-10-05T16:04:51 < karlp> I just click the link and it works...
2021-10-05T16:05:12 < tct> cool - I get 403 Forbidden
2021-10-05T16:05:24 < tct> being TouchGFX competition I guess :D
2021-10-05T16:05:34 < tct> tct on ST's blacklists.
2021-10-05T16:05:38 < HelloShitty> thanks
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2021-10-05T16:35:43 < jpa-> meh, counter-productive feature of the day: XCode apparently has a static analyzer, which of course gives some false positives; and it has this nice easy option of "Send email about this warning to whoever is in git blame for this line"
2021-10-05T16:37:51 < tct> hah
2021-10-05T16:40:48 < zyp> haha
2021-10-05T16:54:05 < Steffanx> Time to install XCode.
2021-10-05T16:58:31 < BrainDamage> shouldn't even be a button, better make it integral and automatic part of the build process
2021-10-05T16:58:55 < BrainDamage> this way you can get thousands of email per warning
2021-10-05T17:04:41 < upgrdman> where's the fun in that. better to have a "spam my coworkers" button
2021-10-05T17:04:56 < upgrdman> "your code is bad and you should feel bad."
2021-10-05T17:07:41 < jpa-> if it was just coworkers..
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2021-10-05T17:10:37 < tct> coworkers? jpa extending business? :)
2021-10-05T17:22:23 < zyp> oh, good idea
2021-10-05T17:22:31 < zyp> I saw some of our work stuff uses nanopb
2021-10-05T17:22:35 < Steffanx> I dont think that's what jpa- meant, mr tct 
2021-10-05T17:23:22 < Steffanx> Unless you consider his kid to be a co-worker.
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2021-10-05T17:30:37 < bitmask> heyo
2021-10-05T17:33:11 < aandrew> hey bitmask 
2021-10-05T17:33:19 < aandrew> glad to see your heated jacket didn't roast you like a turkey
2021-10-05T17:33:20 < bitmask> how it goes
2021-10-05T17:33:27 < bitmask> heh yea i gotta make v3
2021-10-05T17:42:38 < Steffanx> Winter is coming bitmask 
2021-10-05T17:46:25 < bitmask> tis tis
2021-10-05T17:46:50 < bitmask> man i knew less c++ than i thought. I have never even heard of algorithms
2021-10-05T17:47:00 < tct> #include <algorithm>
2021-10-05T17:47:16 < tct> bitmask, there are some books specifically about algorithms & C++
2021-10-05T17:47:16 < bitmask> im about to be a pro though
2021-10-05T17:47:39 < bitmask> I think having a list of them is good enough which c++ primer does
2021-10-05T17:48:55 < bitmask> ive been reading the ebook because i didnt wanna pay $35 for it used. I bid on one for $20 including shipping not expecting to get it, im still the highest bidder with 11 hours to go though im not sure if anyone is waiting to snipe it
2021-10-05T17:49:18 < bitmask> not that 35 is a lot but i just didnt feel i really needed the physical book
2021-10-05T17:49:37 < bitmask> i really do prefer physical books to ebooks in any form though
2021-10-05T17:49:59 < bitmask> a kindle might be nice for a 1500 page book though, but i sold my tablet a year or two ago
2021-10-05T17:51:10 < bitmask> i just wanna read the last 9 chapters, i guess 'just' doesnt really apply since thats half the book but still
2021-10-05T17:55:15 < Steffanx> Agreed. For books like that I prefer real paper
2021-10-05T17:55:30 < Steffanx> It's also easier to go back a few pages.
2021-10-05T17:56:46 < bitmask> i really like to see progress and physically see how much i have to go for the next checkpoint (chapter, etc)
2021-10-05T17:57:33 < bitmask> and when you finish a book it feels so good to shut it and plop it down
2021-10-05T17:59:50 < Steffanx> Lol. No.. thats what I used to do when I was a very young Steffanx  .. no more
2021-10-05T17:59:56 < catphish> zyp: i have now sourced a my VX220 and a Tesla 200kW motor :)
2021-10-05T18:00:35 < Steffanx> Vroom Vroom.. 
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2021-10-05T18:01:51 < tct> catphish, how much did you have to lay down for the VX220 and the tesla motor (individually)?
2021-10-05T18:04:21 < catphish> tct: £9,000 GBP for the car, £2,500 for the motor, including inverter (that's built into the motor anyway) and drive shafts
2021-10-05T18:04:30 < tct> thanks
2021-10-05T18:09:38 < emeb> Someone's going to be spending some time in the garage with a welder and metalworking tools...
2021-10-05T18:15:02 < catphish> yep! luckily i have had a good offer of someone with workshop space and fabrication experience
2021-10-05T18:16:26 < catphish> i don't know how much of the 200kW motor's torque i'll actually be able to use, but hopefully lots :)
2021-10-05T18:16:43 < tct> catphish, what are you up to? what's the plan?
2021-10-05T18:18:47 < bitmask> yes that question
2021-10-05T18:26:25 < zyp> catphish, nice
2021-10-05T18:27:16 < zyp> catphish, where in the UK were you again? I'm considering driving to UK next year and it'd be fun to come visit and have a look :)
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2021-10-05T18:37:56 < catphish> zyp: Dorset, here https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blandford+Forum/@50.862838,-2.1745462,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x48724c265f6eb393:0x40e1dd125b93baa!8m2!3d50.856908!4d-2.165353
2021-10-05T18:38:34 < catphish> zyp: i'll let you know how i get on with it, i'm hoping to use open source stuff as far as possible
2021-10-05T18:45:36 < englishman> catphish: very cool project. which motor did you get?
2021-10-05T18:46:30 < englishman> model S is a good 40cm wider track than the opel i believe. that is going to be one awesome looking car.
2021-10-05T18:47:07 < catphish> englishman: it's a Model S "Small Drive Unit"
2021-10-05T18:47:15 < catphish> 193kW i think
2021-10-05T18:47:34 < englishman> looks like you got a great price https://evshop.eu/en/electric-motors/107-tesla-model-s-small-drive-unit-ready-to-run.html
2021-10-05T18:48:04 < catphish> oh yeah!
2021-10-05T18:48:49 < catphish> mine came with drive shafts and an open source inverter controller logic board, i look forward to playing with it
2021-10-05T18:49:12 < englishman> that is indeed pretty small compared to the RWD / performance / model 3 motors
2021-10-05T18:49:57 < catphish> yeah, it's dramatically smaller, fingers crossed it'll fit in the mid/read engine bay of the roadster
2021-10-05T18:50:19 < englishman> well i don't know about that part. have you seen how they are mounted in the tesla? they are very low to the ground.
2021-10-05T18:50:39 < catphish> i have not
2021-10-05T18:50:56 < catphish> but i don't think i need to match the tesla setup too closely
2021-10-05T18:51:04 < catphish> i'll just have to offer it up and hope for the best
2021-10-05T18:51:44 < englishman> good way to start
2021-10-05T18:51:58 < englishman> how are your welding skills
2021-10-05T18:52:03 < catphish> well maybe an expensive way to start, but can always sell on the motor if it doesn't work
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2021-10-05T18:52:39 < catphish> well i have never welded in my life, but i'm getting professional help with the mechanical aspects from someone who has made mounts for EV conversions before
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2021-10-05T19:33:56 < machinehum> Anyone doing this? https://www.oddengineer.com/join
2021-10-05T19:36:44 < zyp> a million indians?
2021-10-05T19:37:04 < jpa-> i didn't know zyp was into disaster tourism
2021-10-05T19:37:12 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-05T19:37:27 < machinehum> It appears they're trying to reduce the amount of Indians
2021-10-05T19:39:40 < karlp> forget msp430, you know what other legendary chips are in stock? pic24!
2021-10-05T19:40:16 < jpa-> every month i'm surprised there are still some STM32 models in stock
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2021-10-05T20:49:48 < catphish> englishman: this is the actual part: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133870269805?hash=item1f2b4a356d:g:7hAAAOSwplNhNzqy
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2021-10-05T20:51:22 < englishman> HC08 is in stock.
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2021-10-05T20:57:05 < englishman> nice, opensores inverter board in DesignSpark
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2021-10-05T20:58:56 < zyp> jpa-, how can I not drive over there in my electric car and laugh at the gas shortages?
2021-10-05T21:07:21 < qyx> englishman: hc11 too
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2021-10-05T21:35:00 < catphish> englishman: yeah, i think open sores is necessary for tesla re-use
2021-10-05T21:35:33 < catphish> i also need batteries and a charger, will find something suitable
2021-10-05T21:35:42 < catphish> and write some code to hook it all together
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2021-10-05T22:31:33 < machinehum> lol HC08
2021-10-05T22:31:48 < machinehum> More of an HC11 guy myself, the classic MCU I learnt on
2021-10-05T22:31:51 < machinehum> Assembly and shit
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2021-10-05T22:33:18 < qyx> same here, it was my first MCU
2021-10-05T22:33:31 < Steffanx> You guys are ooold
2021-10-05T22:33:36 < qyx> salvaged from some old benchtop measurement device
2021-10-05T22:33:39 < machinehum> I'm 27
2021-10-05T22:33:44 < qyx> 33 here
2021-10-05T22:33:46 < steve_> HC08 for me.  I'm not old but prof was XD
2021-10-05T22:33:54 < machinehum> lol yup^
2021-10-05T22:34:12 < machinehum> "If you can program an HC11, you can program anything"
2021-10-05T22:34:37 < Steffanx> machinehum: showed him his C compiler?
2021-10-05T22:34:39 < steve_> literally used his homespun edu kit same thing since the 90's, bet he still uses it today
2021-10-05T22:34:43 < machinehum> Little did he know there were like a million other things the HC11 doesn't have that are needed these days
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2021-10-05T22:35:06 < machinehum> Steffanx: C?
2021-10-05T22:35:13 < machinehum> Assembly
2021-10-05T22:35:50 < Steffanx> It was a comment on what you quoted
2021-10-05T22:36:24 < machinehum> Oh yeah, right.
2021-10-05T22:36:27 < machinehum> Exactly
2021-10-05T22:37:17 < machinehum> I think we did do a little bit of C, but the compiler was fucking cancer. It couldn't do some types of loops
2021-10-05T22:37:57 < catphish> i've never even heard of hc08 :'(
2021-10-05T22:39:14 < steve_> if I din't go to school I wouldnt' have either, not even a chance
2021-10-05T22:39:42 < steve_> not that you did or didnt
2021-10-05T22:40:25 < machinehum> I remember we did this crazy shit where we connected the address bus with a fuckton of and gates and latches some data from the databus. Write to that address and the data comes out on the latch
2021-10-05T22:40:34 < machinehum> Pretty nifty
2021-10-05T22:42:19 < steve_> classic
2021-10-05T22:43:22 < steve_> by crazy you mean canonical lol, "it's so standard and normal you wouldnt' believe it"
2021-10-05T22:43:54 < machinehum> The amount of and gates was crazy
2021-10-05T22:44:14 < machinehum> Like 20 gates or something
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2021-10-05T22:44:34 < steve_> lol 20
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2021-10-05T22:52:57 < machinehum>  /join #linux
2021-10-05T22:53:02 < machinehum> shit
2021-10-05T22:53:11 < Steffanx> language, machinehum.
2021-10-05T22:53:14 < catphish> don't do that
2021-10-05T22:53:29 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-05T22:53:39 < b-rex> i am extremely triggered right now
2021-10-05T22:53:47 < b-rex>  /join ##stm32-safespace
2021-10-05T22:53:57 < Steffanx> im trigged by your nick name b-rex.
2021-10-05T22:54:10 < kakium69> what is happening is laurence here?
2021-10-05T22:54:17 < Steffanx> who's laurence?
2021-10-05T22:54:37 < kakium69> who?
2021-10-05T22:54:55 < Steffanx> is the president of china
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2021-10-05T22:56:48 < octorian> Anyone here mess around with TinyUSB as a CDC device?
2021-10-05T22:57:17 < octorian> I'm running into somewhat odd behavior that feels like a bug, just not entirely sure where to go poking or if its known and has a workaround.
2021-10-05T22:58:13 < octorian> So if I have a terminal connected to the virtual com port that the CDC device presents, everything works normally.  My device can send data to the terminal, and receive data from it.
2021-10-05T22:58:36 < octorian> But if I disconnect the terminal, then have my device send something, then reconnect the terminal...  My device suddenly receives the data it just sent.
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2021-10-05T23:02:02 < catphish> i'm triggered by boobies
2021-10-05T23:02:37 < steve_> how dare you
2021-10-05T23:03:00 < Steffanx> Do mentits work for you too catphish?
2021-10-05T23:03:59 < catphish> Steffanx: no, tried touching my own, nothing
2021-10-05T23:04:12 < Steffanx> Good, im glad to hear that
2021-10-05T23:04:42 < catphish> really? seems somewhat disapointing to me. :'(
2021-10-05T23:20:58 < octorian> Well, I think I found the bug....  And its not what I expected.
2021-10-05T23:21:06 < octorian> The bug was...  HTerm is a POS.
2021-10-05T23:21:37 < octorian> I decided to actually sniff the USB traffic from my desktop, and discovered that the issue wasn't the fault of the device at all.
2021-10-05T23:21:56 < Steffanx> Der Hammer HTerm?
2021-10-05T23:22:13 < octorian> Yeah
2021-10-05T23:22:20 < Steffanx> That tool is perfect :P
2021-10-05T23:22:44 < octorian> When reconnecting to the device, it seemed to echo the first received line back to it, one character at a time.
2021-10-05T23:25:24 < qyx> ##shortage32: looks like Maxim parts are super obtainable, at least their switchers
2021-10-05T23:25:43 < qyx> now the question is if I am adventurous enough
2021-10-05T23:26:00 < Steffanx> So did you all upgrade to windows 11 yet?
2021-10-05T23:26:43 < brdb> any recommendations on a simple QFN for USB to UART or would something like the F413 just not need it and instead you can just use the USB periph to do something like this
2021-10-05T23:27:02 < qyx> cp2102 but you don't need it
2021-10-05T23:27:02 < brdb> i'm trying to balance code overhead vs. BOM count
2021-10-05T23:27:44 < kakium69> Steffanx: I believe winupdate does it automatically eventually
2021-10-05T23:27:50 < kakium69> no need to worry about it
2021-10-05T23:27:54 < brdb> XR21B1411 seems reasonable, though i've not seen anyone use this before and the datasheet is unclear on default operation vs. something plain jane like the FTDI FT232RL
2021-10-05T23:27:55 < Steffanx> i think what qyx is trying to say is: Dont buy cp2102 i need them all
2021-10-05T23:28:13 < Steffanx> i just downloaded the installer, kakium69
2021-10-05T23:30:42 < Steffanx> oh lol, it failed installing.
2021-10-05T23:37:23 < kakium69> without any details?
2021-10-05T23:42:03 < kakium69> speeddial Bill
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2021-10-05T23:48:57 < Steffanx> Yeah, just said.. failed. Wanna retry?
2021-10-05T23:49:07 < qyx> do you?
2021-10-05T23:49:20 < qyx> is BGA5 ok? 1x1.4 mm
2021-10-05T23:49:21 < Steffanx> Ofcourse 
2021-10-05T23:50:25 < kakium69> qyx: tell us how it went
2021-10-05T23:52:37 < upgrdman> the joys of SIMD programming, particularly when trying it out in java. sometimes its faster. sometimes is SO FUCKING SLOW. looking at the JIT'd code reveals that a lot of functionality is not implemented yet and falls back to scalar code.
2021-10-05T23:54:43 < kakium69> write in C
2021-10-05T23:54:45 < steve_> java JIT... is that with that newest jdk?  what's that again?  I wanted to try
2021-10-05T23:54:48 < upgrdman> 4 different attempts at vectorized code: https://pastebin.com/rVDrkeLK
2021-10-05T23:55:17 < upgrdman> steve_, java has had JIT compilers built in for a long tgime
2021-10-05T23:55:28 < steve_> for native?
2021-10-05T23:55:55 < upgrdman> you mean TO native? yes
2021-10-05T23:56:27 < upgrdman> you can use a tool like JITWatch to see the transformation from source code -> java bytecode -> intel assembly
2021-10-05T23:56:37 < steve_> huh, thought it was new and only on oraclejdk.  nevermind then
2021-10-05T23:56:51 < upgrdman> or ARM assembly i suppose, but i've never tried on an ARM processor
2021-10-05T23:57:16 < steve_> that's on openjdk?  I gotta try that
--- Day changed Wed Oct 06 2021
2021-10-06T00:03:37 < upgrdman> steve_, behold, really crappy vector code support in the JRE: https://imgur.com/a/2oomVWy
2021-10-06T00:05:15 < upgrdman> well, to be fair, what i want to do is not nicely SIMD'able. nothing is word aligned, etc.
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2021-10-06T00:07:33 < steve_> I don't know the first thing about SIMD.  I just want to write java and either target native, or convert bytecode to native.  Tried scala thinking I'd learn up to scala native, now I just want java native.  You're sure that's a thing now?  (I still havent' google it yet)
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2021-10-06T00:10:20 < upgrdman> well JIT != "target native"
2021-10-06T00:10:30 < upgrdman> do you mean you want to compile to an EXE?
2021-10-06T00:10:37 < steve_> upgrdman dude you're on java 18, that shit is barely out yet.  So I did hear correctly
2021-10-06T00:10:54 < upgrdman> if so, GraalVM has "native image" but it's not perfect
2021-10-06T00:11:07 < upgrdman> steve_, the JIT has been around since at least java 8
2021-10-06T00:11:14 < steve_> thaaats what I heard.  See why I asked, there was no chance I'd remember that name
2021-10-06T00:12:19 < upgrdman> if you want Java -> EXE, theres no easy perfect solution. when i need that, i build a JRE and fat jar into a SFX archive. double-click it to extract to a temp folder and run the program.
2021-10-06T00:12:34 < upgrdman> s/build/bundle
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2021-10-06T00:14:44 < steve_> ok, thanks for clarifying, need to read up,  maybe JIT usage can make java tolerable on low end systems.  The SFX idea works but is horrible.  As bad as Electron
2021-10-06T00:15:24 < steve_> unless JRE could be made a lot smaller
2021-10-06T00:16:57 < upgrdman> steve_, jlink can trim out the unused portions of the JRE. maybe down to 30MB. not great, but better than a full JRE/JDK
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2021-10-06T00:17:21 < steve_> damn you killin it dog, thanks
2021-10-06T00:17:44 < upgrdman> :)
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2021-10-06T01:47:02 < englishman> are there any internet of dicks devices that will send me an alert when a breaker blows?
2021-10-06T01:47:23 < englishman> im thinking of putting in a smart cam just for this but it's super overkill
2021-10-06T02:02:58 < zyp> I installed a breaker once that had remote monitoring and reset
2021-10-06T02:03:53 < zyp> mains breaker for a cellphone base station
2021-10-06T02:05:05 < zyp> shit like this https://www.hager.sg/energy-distribution/protection-devices/auto-reclosing-remote-control-auxiliary/3124.htm
2021-10-06T02:05:57 < englishman> if i changed out the panel i'd put in smart breakers, unfortunately the breakers that are in there now are all discontinued and getting hard to get. certainly noone is doing development on them
2021-10-06T02:07:52 < englishman> this one 125A breaker has a poor contact so it heats up and trips. with the breaker panel open, it cools enough so that it doesn't trip. i'm thinking of putting a little fan in there to cool it down, and to ostensibly blow the flames all around the house once it blows up.
2021-10-06T02:22:45 < emeb> so you've got some sort of weird breaker panel configuration that needs non-standard breakers that are unobtainium?
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2021-10-06T02:26:13 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-Lok
2021-10-06T02:26:30 < englishman> very typical in cheap ass canuck houses. save $5 to put unsafe garbage in your paper house
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2021-10-06T03:00:33 < Simon--> cheap stab-lok breakers in canuckland? yeahhh https://0x.ca/sim/tmp/flir1572.jpg
2021-10-06T03:02:58 < englishman> :)
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2021-10-06T05:04:35 < steve_> could get a cheap current transformer and check for zero current.  That would be cool though.  I have 3 killawatts covering most of my kit, remote control would be nice
2021-10-06T05:07:18 < steve_> they should standardize a powerline protocol for applicances ala. CAN for cars.
2021-10-06T05:12:30 < englishman> I already have a current monitor. Iotawatt. But it won’t check for an open breaker.
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2021-10-06T06:41:20 < steve_> hah that looks cool I might buy a kit ^
2021-10-06T06:41:54 < bitmask> oh boy, didnt really bid on this thinking I was gonna get it but guess I'm getting a used copy of c++ primer 5th edition
2021-10-06T06:42:04 < bitmask> and it was $22 with shipping compared to a min of $35 for all the buy it nows
2021-10-06T06:42:07 < steve_> sounds like you trust yourself more than your breaker anyway englishman
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2021-10-06T10:47:28 < jadew> https://www.pope2you.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Vatican-Throne-is-The-Resurrection.jpg
2021-10-06T11:19:13 < ventyl> iron throne is nothing compared to this
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2021-10-06T11:36:14 < kakium69> pope is dope
2021-10-06T12:07:11 < benishor> underrated comment ^
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2021-10-06T12:36:34 < karlp> steve_: even back in jdk 1.5 era java was jit'ed.
2021-10-06T12:38:51 < karlp> 21:14 <steve_> ok, thanks for clarifying, need to read up,  maybe JIT usage can make java tolerable on low end systems.  The SFX idea works but is horrible.  As bad as Electron
2021-10-06T12:39:09 < karlp> re that, past experiences were that it would be fine if yuou could get it started, but the startup time and mem costs were pretty harsh.
2021-10-06T12:41:32 < karlp> englishman: yech, those stab-lok sound nasty
2021-10-06T12:42:28 < karlp> englishman: I don't know of any really good breaker tripping shit,
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2021-10-06T12:43:56 < karlp> there's a few "our aloriddims cna detect the trip" from just watching the consumption,  both wiibee and smappee and I think a couple of others say that too, but it's always seemed fairly flaky and error prone.  you can do pretty well with just setting alerts on things that you know should never be zero, but  not always an option...
2021-10-06T12:44:18 < karlp> replacing that breaker really sounds like a far better option than internet of dicking.
2021-10-06T12:45:03 < karlp> if the 125A breaker only has like fridges or intermittent loads, you can be sneaky and move some lights on to it as well, so it never goes to zero unless it's ttripped, and get an alert that way...
2021-10-06T12:45:55 < karlp> and which ir camera is that one?
2021-10-06T12:46:13 < karlp> Simon--: that's your breaker panel?
2021-10-06T12:46:50 < karlp> going to guess a flir from the file name I guess.
2021-10-06T12:48:32 < karlp> Simon--: how do you like the rd6006?
2021-10-06T13:09:07 < englishman> 125A is the main furnace. 23kW. I was thinking of hooking up some internet of dicks thing like a light bulb or a camera so I can get a notification when the breaker trips.
2021-10-06T13:09:33 < englishman> ir cam is an ancient flir e4 back when you could hack them to e8
2021-10-06T13:10:40 < englishman> but hooking up a dummy load is a good idea. Grafana is able to alert me if iotawatt can’t do it itself. Via telegram too!
2021-10-06T13:12:32 < karlp> dummy loads cost energy of course, but it can be worth it, and way simpler than setting up new cameras.
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2021-10-06T14:27:46 < ventyl> englishman: if it is a furnace, temperature sensor is a no go?
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2021-10-06T14:52:53 < englishman> ventyl: it has a thermostat. A smart one, nest. But nest doesn’t tell you if the power is out, because it is a poorly thought out product and google is on its way out.
2021-10-06T14:59:07 < karlp> he means if the temperature drops because the thermostat lost power.
2021-10-06T14:59:27 < karlp> I'd think the thermal mass might be too high to get a robust "power tripped" detection like that though.
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2021-10-06T15:18:00 < ventyl> IDK what temperatures are reached, but maybe some thermocouple could be positioned such that it has reaction time better than simply sensing large mass objects
2021-10-06T15:20:47 < karlp> I think he should replace his breaker. 
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2021-10-06T16:17:57 < tct> O
2021-10-06T16:18:53 < tct> I'm trying to write a FindChibios.cmake to build ChibiOS in a cmake project. I have most things working but when linking it complains about undefinded reference to various symbols such as __ram0_init__, __data_base__, __main_stack_end__ and so on.
2021-10-06T16:19:01 < tct> any ideas?
2021-10-06T16:19:54 < tct> these symbols are defined in the linkerscript which gets passed to target_sources()
2021-10-06T16:20:47 < ventyl> you need to pass linker script to your target binary
2021-10-06T16:21:03 < ventyl> target_set_linker_options or something similar
2021-10-06T16:21:05 < ventyl> lemme check
2021-10-06T16:21:11 < tct> how do I do that? I have a cmake project with only ST CubeHAL and that works (no chibiOS)
2021-10-06T16:23:47 < tct> ventyl, something like:  target_link_options(${TARGET} PRIVATE   -T ${LINKER_SCRIPT})  ?
2021-10-06T16:23:58 < ventyl> exactly
2021-10-06T16:24:02 < ventyl> it took me some time to find it
2021-10-06T16:24:29 < tct> cool, now it only complains about __bss_start__ missing
2021-10-06T16:24:44 < tct> which might be a side effect - I'll investigate
2021-10-06T16:24:46 < tct> thanks vently
2021-10-06T16:25:32 < ventyl> _bss_start__ looks like something in linker script is #ifdef-ed
2021-10-06T16:26:39 < tct> yeah I just grep'd the chibios source tree and that only appears in linkerscripts for E200 (non-STM32 targets)
2021-10-06T16:28:06 < tct> ld: /usr/local/gcc-arm-embedded-10-2020-q4-major/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/10.2.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/crt0.o: in function `_mainCRTStartup':
2021-10-06T16:28:18 < tct> `_mainCRTStartup' doesn't exist anywhere in the chibios source tree
2021-10-06T16:28:28 < tct> am I missing some system/freestanding compiler/linker flags?
2021-10-06T16:28:47 < karlp> definitely :)
2021-10-06T16:28:57 < zyp> try without the underscore
2021-10-06T16:28:57 < karlp> you probably --freestanding or -lnosys or something.
2021-10-06T16:29:04 < ventyl> -specs=nano.specs
2021-10-06T16:29:08 < ventyl> or -nosys or whatever
2021-10-06T16:29:13 < karlp> nanospecs won't c hange looking for crt.
2021-10-06T16:29:43 < tct> what does CRT stand for again?
2021-10-06T16:29:50 < tct> core runtime something?
2021-10-06T16:30:06 < karlp> C runtime iirc.
2021-10-06T16:30:07 < ventyl> C runtime
2021-10-06T16:30:15 < ventyl> -nostartfiles may be a good start
2021-10-06T16:30:21 < ventyl> I pass this to the linker
2021-10-06T16:30:29 < ventyl> together with --specs=nano.specs
2021-10-06T16:30:36 < ventyl> and I use uclibc IIRC
2021-10-06T16:30:40 < ventyl> or newlib?
2021-10-06T16:30:41 < karlp> nostart and nosys are ~subtley different, you might want to look at what you really want to do :)
2021-10-06T16:30:45 < karlp> newlib...
2021-10-06T16:30:57 < ventyl> probably whatever comes with ARM toolchain
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2021-10-06T16:32:40 < tct> thanks guys
2021-10-06T16:32:45 < tct> much appreciated
2021-10-06T16:34:56 < englishman> karlp: you're right, I think it's time for a new, 400A panel, with modern breakers. A new panel will probably cost about the same as this, because Siemens breakers are MUCH cheaper: https://www.lumen.ca/en/Products/Detail/RlBMTkEyUDEyNQ%3D%3D
2021-10-06T16:37:16 < karlp> yeah, a whole panel replacement is ok, sure, intrustive, but it's not _that_ expensive, and it's straightforward, and you'll get off that stablok shit.
2021-10-06T16:38:06 < karlp> you're still on crazy north american breaker junk though right? no nice interchangeable din rail stuff?
2021-10-06T16:38:06 < zyp> american panels are weird
2021-10-06T16:38:16 < zyp> yeah, was about to say
2021-10-06T16:38:37 < zyp> a breaker panel here is a cabinet with din rails and din rail mounted breakers
2021-10-06T16:38:58 < karlp> aiui, even in america, you just replace the whole panel bit with the "correct" vendor rail system,
2021-10-06T16:39:15 < karlp> so it's still pretty straight forward, just electrician time, and N*breaker cost, 
2021-10-06T16:39:19 < karlp> but a full replace is "easy"
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2021-10-06T16:55:41 < englishman> never seen a din rail breaker panel
2021-10-06T16:55:54 < englishman> seems not very dense, from looking at zyp pix
2021-10-06T16:56:28 < englishman> i would need an electrician wouldn't i, plus the utility to come out and shut of the power. :/
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2021-10-06T17:02:21 < englishman> if an electrician and utility come out, they will probably want to replace the entire service. what a bag of worms
2021-10-06T17:02:55 < karlp> well, just keep pretending that a breaker that's known to be pretty shady that is reguarlly overheating and tripping, is "a-ok!"
2021-10-06T17:03:04 < englishman> now the breaker replacement is a $10k service and panel upgrade with renovations to the annex
2021-10-06T17:03:14 < englishman> well it's only dangerous in the cold season
2021-10-06T17:03:52 < karlp> I don't really see how "turn off mains, replace breakers with modern, turn on mains" is a $10k job, but ok.
2021-10-06T17:04:28 < karlp> shit gets complicated by local regs too of course.
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2021-10-06T17:07:08 < englishman> probably by seeing all the shit i've added (hot tub, 120 A circuit to the garage for car charging, 40 A circuit for basement greenhouse) and saying "i'm not going to install a 400 A panel on a 200 A service"
2021-10-06T17:07:58 < alan_o> yeah, but think about all the money you've saved by having an electric car. You should be way ahead.
2021-10-06T17:08:06 < englishman> but i could always stop whining and just call a sparky and see what they say
2021-10-06T17:15:47 < tct> ventyl, you still around?
2021-10-06T17:15:57 < ventyl> tct: ya
2021-10-06T17:16:33 < tct> ventyl, so you use target_link_options(), right? Did you ever feel like it doesn't behave the way you'd expect? eg. the old school add_link_options() works but adding the same line to target_link_options() doesn't?
2021-10-06T17:16:59 < zyp> englishman, it's not very dense, but I don't see why it should be either
2021-10-06T17:17:45 < tct> ventyl, also, things like  -mcpu=, -mfpu= and -mfloat-abi=, do I add those only to target_compile_options(), only to target_link_options() or actually both?
2021-10-06T17:17:46 < ventyl> tct: no, I didn't ever felt that way. maybe with some specific linker options you may feel like it because the order of options matters. but in such case I think you are crossing the line of what should and shouldn't be done
2021-10-06T17:18:28 < zyp> it's just sitting embedded in a wall somewhere, not like it's taking up valuable room I could use for something else
2021-10-06T17:19:20 < ventyl> tct: only compile definitions (actually, I add them globally) in toolchain file
2021-10-06T17:19:36 < tct> ventyl, compile _definitions_ ? not options?
2021-10-06T17:19:39 < zyp> and it could still be twice as dense if I had single module breakers, but we don't use those in norway
2021-10-06T17:19:56 < ventyl> but I know one specific toolchain, where you may need to add them as link options too. otherwise build will fail
2021-10-06T17:20:08 < tct> ventyl, would that by any chance be gcc-arm-embedded?
2021-10-06T17:20:12 < ventyl> tct: add_definitions(${ARCH_FLAGS})
2021-10-06T17:20:29 < zyp> tct, enjoying cmake?
2021-10-06T17:20:38 < ventyl> that's actually what opencm3's Makefile does
2021-10-06T17:20:55 < tct> zyp, stfu :p
2021-10-06T17:20:56 < ventyl> tct: nope
2021-10-06T17:20:59 < tct> zyp, :-D
2021-10-06T17:21:04 < ventyl> cmake is awesome
2021-10-06T17:21:54 < zyp> awful*
2021-10-06T17:22:03 < ventyl> tct: https://github.com/ventZl/FirmwareUtils
2021-10-06T17:22:37 < ventyl> there's cmake/LinkerConfig.cmake, it is pretty much rewrite of libopencm3's linker script generation stuff
2021-10-06T17:23:01 < ventyl> awful is awesomes GUI toolkit
2021-10-06T17:23:08 < tct> I am able to compile, run & debug a binary on an STM32F4, but once I enable the FPU by adding -mfpu and -mfloat-abi options to target_compile_options() I get these errors on link which I have never seen before:  https://pastebin.com/a4m18zqg
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2021-10-06T17:23:43 < zyp> tct, those are multilib error
2021-10-06T17:24:19 < zyp> you need the mcpu/mfpu/mfloat-abi flags to the linker as well so it can select the correct lib
2021-10-06T17:24:56 < tct> zyp, I tried that and I am getting the same errors .__.
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2021-10-06T17:25:22 < zyp> then you're not doing it right
2021-10-06T17:25:29 < ventyl> yeah
2021-10-06T17:25:36 < ventyl> you are missing some flag
2021-10-06T17:26:02 < ventyl> brb, meeting
2021-10-06T17:26:15 < tct> true
2021-10-06T17:26:17 < karlp> the only thing ghood abotu cmake is that it's got coloured nice progress reports
2021-10-06T17:26:26 < karlp> and it's not autohell.
2021-10-06T17:26:37 < tct> zyp, and what about the last one?  warning: cannot find entry symbol cs=nosys.specs; defaulting to 00000000080001e0
2021-10-06T17:26:47 < tct> zyp, what would this indicate?
2021-10-06T17:27:20 < zyp> are you linking with gcc or ld?
2021-10-06T17:27:38 < tct> gcc
2021-10-06T17:27:43 < tct> but I think I don't actually need the -specs=
2021-10-06T17:27:48 < zyp> ok, good
2021-10-06T17:27:49 < tct> at least chibios only does that in MSP430 demos
2021-10-06T17:27:57 < zyp> dunno
2021-10-06T17:29:37 < tct> so I removed -specs=, still have -nostartfiles and I can build successfully. But I still end up in the unhandled_exception handler when context switch occurs upon saving the FPU registers:       vpush   {s16-s31}
2021-10-06T17:29:52 < tct> -mcpu, -mfpu and -mfloat-abi  are all defined for both compiler & linker
2021-10-06T17:33:03 < karlp> does your startup files turn on the fpu?
2021-10-06T17:33:13 < karlp> (that should be in your existing code, so, I'd expect so....?)
2021-10-06T17:33:57 < tct> I'd expect so too. just using ChibiOS source tree with supplied demos.
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2021-10-06T17:35:09 < tct> karlp, thanks for asking that - working now. For some reason CORTEX_USE_FPU didn't get defined 
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2021-10-06T18:49:26 < karlp> any of you nerds know how to make css pad an element to the nearest whole pixels?  or something, variable width font icons turn out to be 13.4pixels, and then the loading spinner gif is a fixed 14pixels. so it jumps back and forth when switching between the font icon and the ani-gif
2021-10-06T18:51:43 < srk> A modern vehicle can have more than 70 ECUs that use CAN FD to exchange information over the CAN Bus when the engine is running or when the vehicle is moving. 
2021-10-06T18:52:34 < tct> 70 ECUs? ECU is engine control unit, right? you wouldn't need 70 of those? I get that you'd have 70 members on the CAN bus but surely not 70 ECUs?
2021-10-06T18:58:21 < qyx> ecu is a generic name
2021-10-06T18:58:57 < jpa-> it is electronic control unit or engine control unit, depending on manufacturer :)
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2021-10-06T19:00:33 < tct> oh
2021-10-06T19:01:06 < mouseghost> hi
2021-10-06T19:10:08 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/yIy2O8qXDJs?t=242
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2021-10-06T21:12:58 < Steffanx> Lo
2021-10-06T21:16:21 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-06T21:16:54 < catphish> my ridiculous car arrived, now i've got a lithium battery pack on my desk that appears to have a MCU on it, but no idea how to talk to it :(
2021-10-06T21:18:16 < mawk> probe it with your la
2021-10-06T21:19:47 < catphish> i certainly will, but i fear it won't do anything unless told to
2021-10-06T21:20:08 < catphish> so i may need to find an existing controller first
2021-10-06T21:21:38 < catphish> i guess if i'm lucky it might just spam data, but i doubt it
2021-10-06T21:22:03 < catphish> i think the person who gave it to me has some kind of central BMS, so might have to borrow that too to probe it
2021-10-06T21:22:23 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/jvGEwm0.jpg
2021-10-06T21:23:37 < catphish> that bulge on the top is doubtlessly a BMS "slave" with voltmeters for each cell and probably discharge loads
2021-10-06T21:23:40 < catphish> but no idea how to use it
2021-10-06T21:27:11 < mouseghost> mawk, whats la
2021-10-06T21:27:31 < mawk> logic analyzer
2021-10-06T21:30:40 < catphish> logic anal probe
2021-10-06T21:31:26 < catphish> i'll get a scope on there first, just in case it is alive
2021-10-06T21:31:46 < catphish> i suspect it won't do anything until it receives first though
2021-10-06T21:44:12 < srk> wondering how does this BMS work https://shop.gwl.eu/_d7508.html i.e. how it balances.. is there a smd resistor network on the back? :-D
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2021-10-06T21:50:25 < qyx> probably with the RGPR20 huge mosfet
2021-10-06T21:50:33 < qyx> huh lol it is actually an IGBT
2021-10-06T21:51:12 < srk> wasn't even able to find what's that heh
2021-10-06T21:51:31 < qyx> digikey has it in stock
2021-10-06T21:51:57 < srk> oh I see. IGBT.. even weirder
2021-10-06T21:56:41 < srk> power dissipation of 107W hmm :-D
2021-10-06T22:07:38 < catphish> i guess if you do it right you can dissipate in the IGBT, but that's really hard / unnecessary / dangerous, normally there's be a resistor so you can just saturate the mosfet
2021-10-06T22:09:23 < srk> exactly. like carefully shorting a battery to dissipate via IGBT hm
2021-10-06T22:10:16 < srk> maybe it is due to cost and size
2021-10-06T22:10:39 < srk> probably single sided as I wasn't able to find a pic of the other side
2021-10-06T22:11:53 < mouseghost> LGBT?
2021-10-06T22:13:39 -!- unmanbearpig [~unmanbear@user/unmanbearpig] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-10-06T22:14:09 < catphish> mouseghost: gay transistors?
2021-10-06T22:14:14 < mouseghost> seems so
2021-10-06T22:14:18 < catphish> lol
2021-10-06T22:15:17 < catphish> yeah i'm not buying that anyone would short a battery through an IGBT, seems like madness
2021-10-06T22:15:29 < catphish> must be more to it
2021-10-06T22:17:28 < srk> it looks similar to diyBMS v4 tho, like midi chain and attiny
2021-10-06T22:18:46 < srk> TIL Makita PINK and gay drill https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.1g0TDUivPuaMXm8fXc7YWQHaF5%26pid%3DApi&f=1
2021-10-06T22:23:09 < srk> and even some obscure limited edition of pink impact drivers, mmm
2021-10-06T22:28:52 < qyx> whats wrong with shorting a battery using transsitor?
2021-10-06T22:29:09 < qyx> it is self fusable, I see no problem
2021-10-06T22:31:44 < qyx> other than that, the current is intrinsically limited
2021-10-06T22:32:15 < qyx> to about 10 A if they use 3V3 as a gate voltage
2021-10-06T22:36:53 < catphish> well there was nothing on any of the pins of that battery, not surprised
2021-10-06T22:37:25 < catphish> so i'll probably need to find an existing BMS master unit and hook it up and probe it
2021-10-06T22:38:26 < catphish> i guess i could replace with open source BMS modules but hopefully not necessary
2021-10-06T22:41:35 < catphish> i think it's reasonable to assume that the 2-pin thing on the top of the battery is an optoisolated uart
2021-10-06T22:44:25 < qyx> someone dared to buy all 900 CAN transiceivers overnight
2021-10-06T22:44:39 < qyx> no more compatible transceivers in stock
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2021-10-06T22:45:07 < srk> try ebay :-D
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2021-10-06T22:50:34 < catphish> which ones?
2021-10-06T22:51:06 < qyx> mcp2562, tlt9251, tle9251 all in dfn8
2021-10-06T22:51:42 < catphish> oh fuck, my CAN transceiver is also all gone - ATA6561
2021-10-06T22:52:01 < catphish> this is getting ridiculous
2021-10-06T22:52:38 < srk> 70 ECUs!
2021-10-06T22:57:52 < srk> hah, just randomly checked the TJA1057GT I found today and no available ofc :-D F042 ditto
2021-10-06T22:58:27 < qyx> F042 is unobtainable since about Feb this year
2021-10-06T22:59:32 < srk> wild
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2021-10-06T23:03:57 < catphish> bad time to decide to get into car electronics :'(
2021-10-06T23:08:44 < zyp> aww
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2021-10-06T23:29:13 < catphish> is CAN literally going to be impossible soon? there were plenty of interface ICs last week, now all the alternatives are vanishing fast :'(
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2021-10-06T23:31:21 < zyp> availability still looks decent enough to me
2021-10-06T23:31:31 < zyp> e.g. sn65hvd232
2021-10-06T23:34:27 < catphish> that's a good start, i've moved at 5v though because i've given up on stm32 for now :'(
2021-10-06T23:34:49 < catphish> stm32 with CAN isn't happening for the foreseeable future
2021-10-06T23:36:41 < zyp> heh
2021-10-06T23:36:49 < catphish> i ordered some STM32L451RCT6 and STM32F334K6T7 about 2 weeks ago for prototypig, now both unavailable
2021-10-06T23:36:54 < catphish> so i gave up on the idea
2021-10-06T23:37:20 < zyp> do you need volumes?
2021-10-06T23:37:53 < catphish> not really
2021-10-06T23:38:07 < zyp> then don't worry about volume availability :)
2021-10-06T23:38:18 < catphish> you're right i suppose
2021-10-06T23:38:35 < catphish> but i like to have a part, know it, and know i can use it when i need to
2021-10-06T23:38:59 < zyp> it's not like not using stm32 is gonna guarantee you that
2021-10-06T23:39:20 < catphish> no, i suppose not
2021-10-06T23:39:58 < zyp> and it's not like the shortage is going to last forever
2021-10-06T23:40:04 < catphish> i ordered 5 of each of the above, in theory enough to build what i need to immediately
2021-10-06T23:40:16 < zyp> then go ahead and do that?
2021-10-06T23:41:15 < srk> demotivated due to stocks :-D
2021-10-06T23:42:06 < catphish> zyp: i suppose you're right, it's just that when i design, i like to at least pretend i could scale up and sell in bulk
2021-10-06T23:42:23 < catphish> and not being able to do so makes me weirdly uncomfortable
2021-10-06T23:42:42 < catphish> but for my own EV project, i should probably just use the parts i have in hand
2021-10-06T23:42:47 < catphish> and design right the first time :)
2021-10-06T23:44:44 < catphish> the goal right now is to build an EV management system for 2 DIY EVs (mine and a friend's), so do battery and charge management, and general information, maybe drive CAN gauge clusters
2021-10-06T23:45:17 < catphish> i'm quickly finding that EV projects are annoyingly bespoke, every car has a different combination of second hand parts :D
2021-10-06T23:45:31 < catphish> but i will indeed try to use the parts i have
2021-10-06T23:46:08 < catphish> but the person i'm working with wants to be able to standardize and convert in larger bulk
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2021-10-06T23:47:17 < zyp> I have offers of both F7 and H7 in 100-qty for a board I'm doing, a bunch of stuff can still be sourced if you ask around
2021-10-06T23:48:42 < catphish> that's good i guess
2021-10-06T23:49:17 < catphish> for me, pretty much any STM32 with CAN will work, so maybe i'll quit worrying, use what i have, and find stock as and when i need it
2021-10-06T23:49:34 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-06T23:49:40 < catphish> anyway, need to reverse engineer these batteries next
2021-10-06T23:49:54 < zyp> even if you can't find the exact same part, it's easy enough to port from one stm32 to another
2021-10-06T23:50:45 < catphish> yeah, that's fine really
2021-10-06T23:51:28 < catphish> but last i looked, ALL CAN STM32s were unavailable, so i paniced and started looking at SPI CAN controllers instead
2021-10-06T23:51:49 < zyp> eww
2021-10-06T23:52:16 < zyp> that said, if going that route, grab a combined controller/transceiver
2021-10-06T23:52:31 < catphish> i'd enjoy one of those actually
--- Day changed Thu Oct 07 2021
2021-10-07T00:00:19 < mawk> I've been tasting a small part of the struggle of a modern woman lately
2021-10-07T00:00:36 < mawk> a priest called me "miss" repeatedly, and now a friend sent me at least 10 dick pics
2021-10-07T00:00:54 < mawk> with various objects and rulers in the shot to emphasize the size probably
2021-10-07T00:04:03 < zyp> how do you rate it vs your own?
2021-10-07T00:04:11 < mawk> smaller
2021-10-07T00:04:22 < mawk> and he's circumcised, so it's ugly
2021-10-07T00:04:52 < zyp> got it, mawk likes big uncircumcised dicks
2021-10-07T00:05:09 < mawk> I've sent a dick pic only once, I was 14 I think; it was on a public channel and I got banned because of that
2021-10-07T00:05:18 < mawk> someone asked for it and I took it seriously so I sent it
2021-10-07T00:05:21 < mawk> apparently it was a joke
2021-10-07T00:05:25 < mawk> yes zyp
2021-10-07T00:19:16 < Steffanx> You like it. There is no shame in this mawk
2021-10-07T00:19:28 < mawk> :(
2021-10-07T00:19:57 < Steffanx> One like dicks, the other mentits. ##stm32 has many flavours.
2021-10-07T00:20:29 < catphish> mawk: how did you manage to solicit dick pics?
2021-10-07T00:20:41 < mawk> it's not solicited catphish 
2021-10-07T00:20:46 < catphish> i really thought one had to be a verified woman to get that!
2021-10-07T00:20:50 < mawk> he just thought I'd enjoyed it
2021-10-07T00:21:05 < mawk> yeah me too
2021-10-07T00:21:15 < mawk> but apparently gay people can be very horny too
2021-10-07T00:21:16 < catphish> and yes, being a woman sounds shit
2021-10-07T00:21:29 < mawk> he's not even gay anyway so I don't know why he sent it
2021-10-07T00:21:35 < catphish> lol
2021-10-07T00:21:36 < catphish> he's gay
2021-10-07T00:21:37 < mawk> maybe he wants a compliment
2021-10-07T00:21:54 < mawk> maybe yes, he doesn't want to admit it
2021-10-07T00:23:42 < catphish> 1 sec, i'll find a pic of my cock for you
2021-10-07T00:24:41 < mawk> a gallus gallus domesticus?
2021-10-07T00:24:42 < catphish> mawk: https://i.imgur.com/XWD7uWQ.jpg - i'd say it was fairly large
2021-10-07T00:24:52 < mawk> :(
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2021-10-07T00:24:54 < mawk> I'm disappointed
2021-10-07T00:25:07 < mawk> did you eat him?
2021-10-07T00:25:12 < mawk> a good coq au vin
2021-10-07T00:25:24 < catphish> no, i like him, he tries to murder me, but he's still my friend
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2021-10-07T00:26:00 < catphish> my wife wants a gallus gallus, apparently my cock isn't impressive enough for her
2021-10-07T00:26:14 < mawk> he's defending his harem?
2021-10-07T00:26:21 < catphish> mawk: yes
2021-10-07T00:26:41 < mawk> what does he do when you steal the eggs
2021-10-07T00:26:42 < catphish> especially if i pick up one of his hens, he really goes for me
2021-10-07T00:26:54 < catphish> he doesn't understand / care about eggs
2021-10-07T00:26:58 < mawk> he's brave
2021-10-07T00:27:01 < mawk> or stupid
2021-10-07T00:27:01 < mawk> ah
2021-10-07T00:27:10 < catphish> but yeah, he really thinks he can fight me
2021-10-07T00:27:16 < catphish> and tbh he can do some damage
2021-10-07T00:28:25 < catphish> he's a good bird :)
2021-10-07T00:29:50 < mawk> a tiny dinosaur
2021-10-07T00:30:26 < mawk> who likes the mantits Steffanx 
2021-10-07T00:34:30 < catphish> bonus photo with a couple of his ladyfriends https://i.imgur.com/woHifSm.jpg
2021-10-07T00:35:41 < catphish> bonus bonus photo: my ladyfriend https://i.imgur.com/AmzgfFo.jpg - like this one :)
2021-10-07T00:36:07 < karlp> that's not a chicken!
2021-10-07T00:36:11 < karlp> what's going on?!
2021-10-07T00:36:29 < karlp> do you ahve a tennis court in your own back garden?
2021-10-07T00:37:50 < catphish> alas not, this is a tennis court a couple of miles away
2021-10-07T00:38:12 < catphish> small annual charge covers its use :)
2021-10-07T00:38:27 < Steffanx> mawk:  catphish  :D
2021-10-07T00:39:59 < catphish> alas i'm not tennis court in the garden rich
2021-10-07T00:40:09 < mawk> I don't understand the tattoo
2021-10-07T00:40:18 < karlp> you don't need to, it's not yours
2021-10-07T00:40:35 < mawk> it's a dinosaur holding an oyster?
2021-10-07T00:40:38 < mawk> why karlp 
2021-10-07T00:40:41 < mawk> it's in public view
2021-10-07T00:41:00 < mawk> and I need to understand what I see
2021-10-07T00:41:37 < karlp> no, you don't :)
2021-10-07T00:41:59 < mawk> why not
2021-10-07T00:42:34 < mawk> only the fool is content with no explanation, and goes to sleep unquestioning and as ignorant as the day before
2021-10-07T00:42:49 < mawk> the highest pleasure in life is understanding
2021-10-07T00:43:17 < Steffanx> And dick pics 
2021-10-07T00:43:20 < mawk> yes
2021-10-07T00:43:37 < bitmask> what did i walk in on
2021-10-07T00:43:59 < karlp> chickens and roosters and tattoos and can transceivers and the options of the chipocalypse
2021-10-07T00:44:11 < zyp> bitmask, if you have a big uncircumcised dick, mawk would like to see it
2021-10-07T00:44:16 < mawk> :(
2021-10-07T00:44:27 < karlp> I was leaving that bit out :)
2021-10-07T00:44:33 < Steffanx> Maybe he likes gingers too
2021-10-07T00:44:40 < mawk> no
2021-10-07T00:44:46 < mawk> I like my own hair color, auburn
2021-10-07T00:45:04 < bitmask> uncut? yuck
2021-10-07T00:45:15 < mawk> totally not ginger
2021-10-07T00:45:33 < karlp> spot the american :)
2021-10-07T00:45:44 < bitmask> im ginger, thats why he said it
2021-10-07T00:46:07 < mawk> with freckles?
2021-10-07T00:46:34 < catphish> mawk: i don't think there's enough of that tattoo visible to understand it
2021-10-07T00:46:36 < bitmask> not very dark but yea
2021-10-07T00:46:39 < mouseghost> bitmask, are you cut?
2021-10-07T00:46:45 < bitmask> yes
2021-10-07T00:46:49 < mouseghost> uh
2021-10-07T00:46:49 < catphish> the bit one can see is just surrounding cherry blossom
2021-10-07T00:46:58 < mawk> a
2021-10-07T00:47:16 < mawk> mouseghost we should call it unmutilated but bitmask would probably disagree
2021-10-07T00:47:31 < mouseghost> mawk, or intact
2021-10-07T00:47:34 < mouseghost> for short
2021-10-07T00:47:44 < bitmask> im happy with it
2021-10-07T00:47:51 < mouseghost> mind showing?
2021-10-07T00:47:53 < catphish> mawk: her tattoos are just a mixed bunch of different things she likes though, it's not like there's a story told thre :)
2021-10-07T00:48:04 < mawk> I see catphish 
2021-10-07T00:48:20 < mawk> the guy that sent the dick pic has "better living through chemistry" on the inner lip
2021-10-07T00:48:24 < catphish> trying to find a better photo now
2021-10-07T00:48:29 < mawk> in short "BLTC"
2021-10-07T00:48:30 < catphish> lol
2021-10-07T00:48:57 < mouseghost> a tatoo inside of mouth?
2021-10-07T00:48:59 < Steffanx> Where you have that mawk?
2021-10-07T00:49:05 < mawk> yes mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:49:09 < mawk> what Steffanx 
2021-10-07T00:49:13 < Steffanx> Inner eye lid?
2021-10-07T00:49:14 < mouseghost> weirddd
2021-10-07T00:49:21 < Steffanx> The tattoo/text 
2021-10-07T00:49:23 < mawk> nowhere Steffanx I have no tattoo
2021-10-07T00:49:29 < mawk> my body is intact
2021-10-07T00:49:33 < mouseghost> mawk, good, then i can live with you
2021-10-07T00:49:36 < mawk> I even have my wisdom teeth
2021-10-07T00:49:41 < mawk> why mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:49:44 < mouseghost> so you are indeed very wise
2021-10-07T00:49:54 < mouseghost> who did heroin here, not you mawk?
2021-10-07T00:50:08 < mouseghost> or differently, who was from france
2021-10-07T00:50:09 < mawk> I don't know, who told that?
2021-10-07T00:50:16 < bitmask> im one of them
2021-10-07T00:50:17 < mawk> yes the french guy took heroin
2021-10-07T00:50:18 < mouseghost> i dont remember either
2021-10-07T00:50:21 < mawk> I don't know who he is
2021-10-07T00:50:26 < mouseghost> yeah, and you are not french, i see
2021-10-07T00:50:29 < Steffanx> Me neither 
2021-10-07T00:50:34 < mawk> totally not me, the dutch guy
2021-10-07T00:50:38 < mouseghost> ah
2021-10-07T00:50:39 < mawk> omelette du fromage
2021-10-07T00:50:47 < mawk> croissant baguette
2021-10-07T00:50:52 < catphish> https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/40371_419089094818_3565364_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=6sutSYOsDTwAX_wIIMq&_nc_oc=AQnbbQSKB8k20zkM3nqW1OjH556XJSVDka7kpPpGGQYghRq-K0AvvR_m2x-CUimk4eg&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=c38b735e50830c568597311a2f772c5a&oe=6183CFD2
2021-10-07T00:51:10 < catphish> wirdly can't find a photo of her other arm that has a naked woman tattoo'd on it lol
2021-10-07T00:51:27 < zyp> banned from facebook
2021-10-07T00:52:03 < mawk> demain dès l'aube, à l'heure où blanchit la campagne, je partirai
2021-10-07T00:52:09 < mouseghost> bitmask, whats so eww about an intact penis?
2021-10-07T00:52:15 < Steffanx> Are you back from France yet mr mawk?
2021-10-07T00:52:32 < mawk> no Steffanx I come back sunday
2021-10-07T00:52:42 < Steffanx> Good
2021-10-07T00:52:56 < bitmask> mouseghost its extra skin that is a pocket for gross stuff
2021-10-07T00:53:05 < mawk> why do you ask mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:53:15 < mawk> who took heroin, you want to start?
2021-10-07T00:53:21 < mouseghost> mawk, no, not at all
2021-10-07T00:53:35 < mawk> I'm not sure if it's a bad idea or not, but I think it's probably a bad idea
2021-10-07T00:53:50 < mouseghost> its just that Steffanx or someone said i could maybe go live with someone lol
2021-10-07T00:53:58 < mouseghost> oh yes its most probably a bad idea
2021-10-07T00:54:07 < bitmask> mouseghost how old are you?
2021-10-07T00:54:10 < Steffanx> Yeah, that was me mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:54:10 < mouseghost> bitmask, such as?
2021-10-07T00:54:21 < mouseghost> Steffanx, so who did you say that was?
2021-10-07T00:54:27 < mawk> nerve endings that make you feel good mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:54:29 < mouseghost> bitmask, im 18, why?
2021-10-07T00:54:31 < mawk> bitmask doesn't like them
2021-10-07T00:54:37 < mouseghost> awh
2021-10-07T00:54:40 < mawk> but you were 15 a few months ago mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:54:43 < mawk> did you time travel
2021-10-07T00:54:45 < bitmask> mouseghost i dunno, dead skin + liquids that are coming from that area, lint and dirt
2021-10-07T00:54:46 < mouseghost> no, not at all
2021-10-07T00:54:53 < Steffanx> I cannot say that with him being present at the moment, mouseghost 
2021-10-07T00:54:58 < mouseghost> i see
2021-10-07T00:55:08 < mawk> who
2021-10-07T00:55:15 < Steffanx> Idk
2021-10-07T00:55:18 < mawk> I have a feeling Steffanx is talking about me
2021-10-07T00:55:38 < Steffanx> Mouseghost wanted to study at the tu delft
2021-10-07T00:55:43 < mawk> ah
2021-10-07T00:55:48 < mawk> delft is expensive
2021-10-07T00:55:57 < mouseghost> the city or the uni?
2021-10-07T00:56:02 < mawk> I can rent my basement, it's a bit moldy but perfectly fine
2021-10-07T00:56:04 < mawk> the city
2021-10-07T00:56:07 < Steffanx> Not when you find someone who lives there and has a spare room.
2021-10-07T00:56:13 < mawk> yes like a hobo
2021-10-07T00:56:15 < bitmask> almost sent a dick pic to a 15 year old :P
2021-10-07T00:56:19 < mawk> I prefer my own place
2021-10-07T00:56:19 < Steffanx> And kicks his ex gf out in the process
2021-10-07T00:56:41 < mawk> lol
2021-10-07T00:56:47 < mouseghost> bitmask, well whats grosser: skin or a scar
2021-10-07T00:56:57 < Steffanx> Smell 
2021-10-07T00:57:08 < mawk> it doesn't smell if you shower everyday
2021-10-07T00:57:20 < Steffanx> 🤯
2021-10-07T00:57:21 < mawk> unless you have some kind of infection and your dick falls off
2021-10-07T00:57:25 < bitmask> its not like it looks like a scar
2021-10-07T00:57:42 < Steffanx> I think bitmask is trying to say he's jewish
2021-10-07T00:57:44 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i hope you dont fart
2021-10-07T00:57:50 < mawk> gangrene doesn't smell good
2021-10-07T00:57:53 < bitmask> nah not jewish
2021-10-07T00:58:00 < mawk> just American
2021-10-07T00:58:03 < bitmask> yup
2021-10-07T00:58:12 < mouseghost> farts also smell
2021-10-07T00:58:15 < mawk> with hygienist practice inherited from last century
2021-10-07T00:58:23 < bitmask> my farts almost never smell
2021-10-07T00:58:30 < mawk> and a few vague indications that it slows the spread of AIDS
2021-10-07T00:58:32 < Steffanx> Is it that common in the US?
2021-10-07T00:58:35 < mawk> so now it's widespread
2021-10-07T00:58:46 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-07T00:58:58 < mouseghost> mawk, i think they spread it because they think it is good and they seek any kind of explanation to continue the practice
2021-10-07T00:59:09 < mouseghost> re aids
2021-10-07T00:59:29 < mawk> also because saying it's not good and should be banned gets you conflict from the kippa men and the jellaba men
2021-10-07T00:59:34 < mouseghost> bitmask, so do you mean you cannot do a dutch oven?
2021-10-07T00:59:40 < mawk> and then you go to right wing jail
2021-10-07T01:00:00 < catphish> can right wing jail be a real thing?
2021-10-07T01:00:31 < mawk> we don't know what the USA are capable of
2021-10-07T01:00:37 < mawk> maybe in a few years
2021-10-07T01:00:38 < bitmask> i guess
2021-10-07T01:02:46 < catphish> i assume they'll just alternate every 4 years which of their 2 tribes are the criminals
2021-10-07T01:04:04 < catphish> 4 years will have right wing nazi jail, next 4 years will have left wing communist jail
2021-10-07T01:10:03 < bitmask> finally got my last c++ book, well aside from the one I just ordered yesterday :/
2021-10-07T01:10:08 < bitmask> so much to read
2021-10-07T01:15:22 < Steffanx> Last.. for now
2021-10-07T01:21:58 < mouseghost> goodnight
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2021-10-07T02:41:49 < catphish> i really should learn some c++
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2021-10-07T03:14:32 < upgrdman> pro tip: if you're flying with delta airlines, and they offer a free tier of wifi for "messaging only" ... you can get unlimited internet access if you use a vpn :) guessing they're whitelisting http/https for a few domains, but they forgot to block other protocols, haha
2021-10-07T03:15:01 < upgrdman> it's still slow, but very usable for normal web browsing
2021-10-07T03:18:14 < aandrew> yeah I often used iodine DNS proxy to get around many of these kinds of paid internet gateways. sometimes they forget to block external DNS and it's only slightly slower than normal wifi
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2021-10-07T04:12:17 < jadew> upgrdman, which chips did you want to compare?
2021-10-07T04:12:42 < upgrdman> huh?
2021-10-07T04:12:59 < jadew> a couple of days ago, you said you wanted to compare two chips
2021-10-07T04:13:06 < upgrdman> o
2021-10-07T04:13:41 < upgrdman> i designed a board for the stm32f730z8t6, and im looking for other f7's that are in stock and pin compatible and same or more periphs
2021-10-07T04:15:30 < jadew> I'll get back to you on that
2021-10-07T04:15:37 < upgrdman> cool thx
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2021-10-07T11:57:17 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, I set up iodined at home once to have it ready, but htne never got it to work properly when I needed it. was a bit dissapointed, I could verify with dig that I could make external dns queries.
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2021-10-07T14:44:35 < karlp> https://bridging-gap-protocol.com/
2021-10-07T14:50:09 < jpa-> is the subtitle "Facebook outages are negatively impacting young people's mental health"? ;)
2021-10-07T14:54:49 < specing> isnt facebook for old people?
2021-10-07T14:55:27 < tct> so how do I figure out which FPU a specific STM32 device uses? i.e.  "fpv4-sp-d16" 
2021-10-07T14:56:20 < karlp> magic.
2021-10-07T14:56:27 < tct> c'mon
2021-10-07T14:56:40 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/e1432cd2
2021-10-07T14:56:51 < karlp> (otherwise you have to read too much, in all the datasheets, it's tedious)
2021-10-07T14:57:06 < karlp> only one to really be careful abotu is f7/h7 that comes in both single and double versions.
2021-10-07T14:57:32 < karlp> (libopencm3 doesn't support both at present)
2021-10-07T14:58:09 < karlp> though I think the linker script generator will try, and then fail as the library wass't built correctly for the variant.
2021-10-07T14:58:42 < tct> yeah I'd be dealing with an h750
2021-10-07T14:59:09 < tct> regarding the datasheet: The ST devide datasheet? Or would I need to look this up in the ARM core datasheet?
2021-10-07T14:59:59 < karlp> the st datasheet normally has enough in it.
2021-10-07T15:00:56 < karlp> I don't have a fullset here, sorry, cna't be arsed downloading more of them
2021-10-07T15:01:25 < karlp> you take the basics from here: https://github.com/cbiffle/gcc-arm-embedded/blob/master/readme.txt
2021-10-07T15:01:33 < karlp> and then just adjust the single/double based on your part
2021-10-07T15:01:39 < jpa-> if you are desperate, you can check FPSID register
2021-10-07T15:01:52 < tct> alright, thanks guys!
2021-10-07T15:02:04 < karlp> (that's actualyl too old to have m7 in it it, but you can find the current readme.txt somewere in your own tree, that was just the first one I found)
2021-10-07T15:02:45 < karlp> the developer.arm.com ones don't have it online anymore, you ahve to download it first.
2021-10-07T15:03:15 < tct> that is a very helpful readme
2021-10-07T15:03:33 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/30203a05 is the current one
2021-10-07T15:03:39 < karlp> you have new options for specifiying it too.
2021-10-07T15:04:29 < tct> oh, is -mfpu no longer required?
2021-10-07T15:04:36 < karlp> depends how new your compiler is :)
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2021-10-07T15:06:04 < karlp> the you can see in that latest readme how to use --print-multi-lib to test things, and how -mfpu is still supported.
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2021-10-07T15:07:39 < tct> thanks karlp !
2021-10-07T15:08:17 < karlp> anytime.
2021-10-07T15:08:28 < karlp> saves me from opamping and spicing and cssing.
2021-10-07T15:08:56 < tct> css... meh. glad that I can just outsource that to my friend who really likes doing that for some reason
2021-10-07T15:12:08 < tct> what are you cssing?
2021-10-07T15:12:12 < tct> or rather: what are you NOT cssing? :p
2021-10-07T15:12:39 < karlp> nothing interesting I'm afraid.
2021-10-07T15:12:57 < tct> isn't that sort of implied when we talk about css? :x
2021-10-07T15:15:07 < tct> another question regarding STM32: I'm writing a FindChibios.cmake module to include ChibiOS in a cmake project. ChibiOS provides a custom HAL. As different STM32 devices have different "version" of peripherals (eg. I2Cv1, I2Cv2, ...), how do I figure out which version a particular device uses?
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2021-10-07T15:24:36 < karlp> magic :)
2021-10-07T15:24:57 < karlp> this is the hardwork of the all the library people before you....
2021-10-07T15:25:26 < tct> indeed. And I would like to understand how I can appreciate that hard work by figuring out which elements of their hard work I need to include ;-)
2021-10-07T15:28:12 < karlp> you can grep the makefiles for libopencm3, and there's a spreadsheet the rust guys put together that does a pretty good job too, I'm just trying to find it.
2021-10-07T15:29:42 < tct> hmm, I can obviously also just look at the makefile provided by chibios
2021-10-07T15:29:54 < karlp> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-R-AjYrMLL2_623G-AFN2A9THMf8FFMpFD4Kq-owPmI/edit#gid=0
2021-10-07T15:30:12 < jpa-> why do you bother cmakeing a perfectly good makefile project? just compile it to chibios.elf or something and link with your stuff
2021-10-07T15:30:32 < karlp> but yeah, chibi would do it too of course, anything trying to do a real hal would have it somewhere
2021-10-07T15:30:48 < tct> that spreadsheet goes straight to my notes, thanks karlp!
2021-10-07T15:31:56 < karlp> that's from someone on the rust-embedded matrix chat, can't remember the sourceexactly
2021-10-07T15:32:33 < karlp> I've only verified the bits i was using, but it seems pretyt legit
2021-10-07T15:36:46 < zyp> nice, that's convenient
2021-10-07T15:37:57 < srk> tct: it's also part of db/mcu/STM32blabla.xml in CubeMX
2021-10-07T15:39:05 < zyp> surprised all the USB is v1 though
2021-10-07T15:39:49 < zyp> from my perspective, stm32 got three versions of the USB peripheral now
2021-10-07T15:40:22 < zyp> but apart from buffer memory mapping, v2 is a strict superset of v1
2021-10-07T15:41:00 < zyp> and v3 also looks like a superset of v2 (adds host capability), but I haven't tried it yet
2021-10-07T15:41:08 < jpa-> chibios considers there to be "USBv1" and "OTGv1"
2021-10-07T15:42:07 < zyp> laks v1 has a _f1 and a _l0, based on which parts I first used with either
2021-10-07T15:42:27 < jpa-> i guess the idea is that different version is when it is easier to just rewrite the driver instead of #ifdef
2021-10-07T15:42:53 < zyp> maybe, I disagree with that
2021-10-07T15:44:02 < zyp> my rule of thumb is that if you need ifdefs, you've got different versions
2021-10-07T15:44:34 < mawk> use #if defined instead to bypass the zyp mental filter
2021-10-07T15:44:53 < zyp> I mean, until recently, laks just used ifdefs for gpio v1 vs v2
2021-10-07T15:45:53 < tct> lol mawk
2021-10-07T15:46:12 < zyp> until karlp prodded me to fix that a few weeks ago: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=d5fbedc
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2021-10-07T16:14:37 < karlp> re usb, there's dwc_otg, and st-usb-fs, and st-usb-fs has two options for memory aligment right? one of the Ls, and one of the densitys of the f3s uses the other one?
2021-10-07T16:14:45 < karlp> and that rust sheet doesn't capture that split.
2021-10-07T16:15:08 < karlp> oh, yeah, there's the power saving shits that are kinda what you mean by "strict superset"
2021-10-07T16:15:29 < karlp> is there a st-usb-fs peripheral with host too? what's that on?
2021-10-07T16:18:04 < karlp> there's quite a bit more here htat you can pull at your discretion zyp, f3, flash, py3 compat, and stuff...
2021-10-07T16:22:43 < karlp> it's all in https://github.com/karlp/laks/commits/karl-top1
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2021-10-07T18:14:54 < mawk> https://www.lkab.com/en/news-room/news/hybrit-sek-200-million-invested-in-pilot-plant-for-storage-of-fossil-free-hydrogen-in-lulea/
2021-10-07T18:14:56 < mawk> sweden goes boom
2021-10-07T18:15:07 < mawk> hinderburg style
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2021-10-07T18:57:38 < Steffanx> Did you turn down your natural gas based heater yet, mawk?
2021-10-07T18:58:19 < Steffanx> I mean, did you check the prices/m³ yet?
2021-10-07T19:02:09 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2021-10-07T19:02:20 < mawk> the ex gf lets the thermostat on 23°C all the time
2021-10-07T19:02:26 < mawk> I probably will pay a fortune next month
2021-10-07T19:02:31 < mawk> is electricity cheaper?
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2021-10-07T19:06:23 < Steffanx> Did she find a job yet? What else can she be doing all day?
2021-10-07T19:07:38 < Steffanx> If not, it must be your ex gf with benefits.
2021-10-07T19:10:53 < mawk> yes she gets benefits from the french state
2021-10-07T19:11:02 < mawk> but I don't get benfits from her
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2021-10-07T19:17:58 < Steffanx> Sounds like you made a bad deal, mawk
2021-10-07T19:18:53 < mawk> :(
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2021-10-07T19:21:54 < jadew> mawk, you live with your ex and you're polishing your own tools?
2021-10-07T19:22:13 < mawk> more or less jadew 
2021-10-07T19:22:23 < englishman> and paying for her rent and heat most likely
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2021-10-07T19:22:45 < mawk> I go to the hotel if I want to stay a bit with another girl
2021-10-07T19:23:08 < jadew> you should get the other girl home and invite your ex to join if she wants to
2021-10-07T19:23:18 < jadew> nothing to lose
2021-10-07T19:24:39 < jadew> is this the older girl or another gf?
2021-10-07T19:26:32 < jadew> I remember you were planning to stay together with that girl a while ago
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2021-10-07T19:27:29 < Steffanx> You sleep on the cough mawk?
2021-10-07T19:27:31 < mawk> not really
2021-10-07T19:27:35 < mawk> I was planning to live alone jadew 
2021-10-07T19:27:39 < mawk> no Steffanx in a bed
2021-10-07T19:27:42 < mawk> the couch is too small
2021-10-07T19:28:30 < jadew> hope you're not sharing the bed
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2021-10-07T19:29:20 < mawk> why jadew 
2021-10-07T19:29:34 < jadew> because it means it's torture
2021-10-07T19:29:38 < englishman> imagine heating your house with dinosaur farts when you could be heating your house with healthy natural coal-fired electricity used to mine buttcoins
2021-10-07T19:30:02 < jadew> haha, that's a good point englishman 
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2021-10-07T19:33:29 < mawk> why torture jadew 
2021-10-07T19:33:35 < mawk> it's only torture if you still fancy her
2021-10-07T19:33:55 < mawk> otherwise it's just a minor inconvenience that steals the cover in her sleep
2021-10-07T19:34:09 < mouseghost> whats a jadew without ad?
2021-10-07T19:34:23 < mawk> a cut guy
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2021-10-07T19:34:33 < mouseghost> lol
2021-10-07T19:35:07 < mawk> anyway I'm not that interested in sex compared to the average human with my age jadew
2021-10-07T19:35:18 < mawk> it's a side effect of my meds, loss of libido
2021-10-07T19:35:22 < mouseghost> mawk, i cant comprehend how they keep that "le tradition", whereas they dont even keep kosher or other shit in most of the cases; when i was reading different texts written by some people, at least...
2021-10-07T19:35:27 < mawk> a side effect that I welcome with open arms
2021-10-07T19:35:28 < jadew> mawk, ah...
2021-10-07T19:36:16 < mawk> because of its biblical importance I guess mouseghost 
2021-10-07T19:36:29 < mouseghost> kosher thing is not of bibilical importance?
2021-10-07T19:36:48 < mawk> when god wants to kill Moses' son because he's not circumcised
2021-10-07T19:37:04 < jadew> it's considered that if you chop your dick, it weighs enough that you can skip on other stuff
2021-10-07T19:37:12 < jadew> that's why they do it so early
2021-10-07T19:37:15 < mawk> kosher is still important, but the cutting thing is clearly depicted as necessary under penalty of death by god himself
2021-10-07T19:37:17 < jadew> upfront payment
2021-10-07T19:37:20 < mawk> lol
2021-10-07T19:37:44 < mawk> in Exodus 4:25 mouseghost 
2021-10-07T19:38:14 < mouseghost> weird
2021-10-07T19:38:15 < mawk> the wife of Moses cuts the foreskin and throws it at the feet of Moses so god spares the son
2021-10-07T19:38:21 < mawk> the whole book is weird
2021-10-07T19:38:47 < mouseghost> yeah in another book, david kills like 200 philistines and circumcises them, brings the foreskin as a proof of killing them
2021-10-07T19:38:54 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-07T19:39:48 < jadew> humanity is weird
2021-10-07T19:40:03 < jadew> I can't even imagine how it became a thing
2021-10-07T19:40:03 < mawk> yeah but people that write bibles are weirder
2021-10-07T19:40:17 < mouseghost> jadew, i can imagine, same with cutting females
2021-10-07T19:40:26 < mawk> well you have ritual scarification in many tribes around the world
2021-10-07T19:40:40 < mawk> circumcision is just one of these scarification/self-mutilation
2021-10-07T19:40:44 < mouseghost> i do not understand why people who hold some authority dont do anything with cutting dicks
2021-10-07T19:40:47 < jadew> hmm, think it was a substitute for sacrifice?
2021-10-07T19:40:55 < mawk> to engrave your belonging to the tribe
2021-10-07T19:40:57 < mouseghost> even though they are supposed to have a wider view
2021-10-07T19:40:58 < jadew> like a trade-off with god?
2021-10-07T19:41:15 < mouseghost> maybe they did it for funsies
2021-10-07T19:42:09 < mawk> probably jadew 
2021-10-07T19:42:15 < mawk> the old testament loves blood sacrifice
2021-10-07T19:42:30 < mawk> and circumcision in 2000 BC was probably shedding some blood
2021-10-07T19:43:05 < mouseghost> yeah in fact, if someone is cut, and wants to become one of em, they do some kind of blood-nick thing, iirc
2021-10-07T19:43:53 < mouseghost> bcuz what are they going to cut away if theres nothing to cut away
2021-10-07T19:44:06 < mawk> maybe they can cut a phalange out of a finger
2021-10-07T19:44:20 < mawk> like the ring finger, it's useless
2021-10-07T19:44:49 < mawk> or they can cut out an hemorrhoid or two out of their behinds
2021-10-07T19:44:50 < mouseghost> phalange?
2021-10-07T19:44:53 < mawk> the possibilities are limitless
2021-10-07T19:44:57 < karlp> hrm, I like the historians theory, that it was a safer way of emasculating captured enemies than castration.
2021-10-07T19:45:04 < mawk> a phalange is a section of your finger, between the articulations
2021-10-07T19:45:23 < mouseghost> mawk, have any photo?
2021-10-07T19:45:28 < PaulFertser> I wonder why you do not mention that it's apparently easier to keep your dick clean if you have no foreskin.
2021-10-07T19:45:37 < mawk> your fingers have 3 phalanges, except the thumb which has two
2021-10-07T19:45:42 < mouseghost> ah
2021-10-07T19:45:43 < mawk> of what mouseghost , hemorrhoids?
2021-10-07T19:45:49 < jadew> karlp, and how did the jews adopted it as their own thing?
2021-10-07T19:45:49 < mouseghost> no, phalange being cut
2021-10-07T19:45:56 < mouseghost> so i assume it would be shorter by one phallange?
2021-10-07T19:46:11 < PaulFertser> Also a way to prevent phimosis.
2021-10-07T19:46:14 < mawk> PaulFertser hygiene wasn't really a preoccupation in these times I guess
2021-10-07T19:46:17 < mawk> yes mouseghost 
2021-10-07T19:46:21 < mawk> something the mafia would do
2021-10-07T19:46:42 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, but its dumb to prevent it.
2021-10-07T19:46:43 < mawk> and to discover that, they had to be cutting dicks for another reason beforehand
2021-10-07T19:46:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: you think why the muslims must depilate their armpits?
2021-10-07T19:46:53 < mawk> the hygiene thing comes serendipitously
2021-10-07T19:46:56 < jadew> I recall reading that smegma is good for the penis
2021-10-07T19:47:03 < mouseghost> you can just cut it away or fix otherwise on demand, if you have phimosis
2021-10-07T19:47:07 < mawk> that's much further into history PaulFertser 
2021-10-07T19:47:18 < Steffanx> Oh dear. Is it this time of the day again 
2021-10-07T19:47:23 < jadew> in fact, I don't remember reading about any benefits of circumcision
2021-10-07T19:47:24 < mawk> we already made progress on sanitation in the first millennium
2021-10-07T19:47:32 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-10-07T19:47:41 < Steffanx> It's not even Friday yet
2021-10-07T19:47:41 < karlp> jadew: that likely was all corrupted much later?
2021-10-07T19:47:56 < karlp> my thing I was waiting on has finished, I'm back to work, not wiki :)
2021-10-07T19:48:02 < mouseghost> jadew, you could find some american sources citing that it decreases hiv, std and uti
2021-10-07T19:48:15 < PaulFertser> mawk: the old testament has plenty of rules apparently designed to provide some food and health safety.
2021-10-07T19:48:38 < mawk> many of them are true by chance I guess
2021-10-07T19:48:39 < jadew> PaulFertser, it should have said "wash your dick"
2021-10-07T19:48:46 < BrainDamage> I know it's widespread in the us because kelloggs ( yes, the one of the cereals ) has weird idea about the upbringing of kids
2021-10-07T19:48:58 < jadew> I bet most people would have preferred to wash their penises daily than to have their foreskin cut off 
2021-10-07T19:48:58 < mouseghost> yeah BrainDamage, i think it was to prevent masturbation
2021-10-07T19:49:00 < mawk> since the book says everything and its opposite, you can always find one verse that says what you want under the right angle
2021-10-07T19:49:36 < mawk> the book says that true believers are immune to poison, that's not really the case
2021-10-07T19:50:00 < jadew> it says that true believers can move mountains with their mind
2021-10-07T19:50:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm talking about the parts where it gives practical advice.
2021-10-07T19:50:13 < jadew> so if you try and you can't, you're not a true believer
2021-10-07T19:50:13 < mawk> that's practical advice PaulFertser 
2021-10-07T19:50:14 < PaulFertser> Readily applicable to everyday life.
2021-10-07T19:50:17 < mouseghost> same that there are some rules about specific kinds of meat
2021-10-07T19:50:20 < mawk> just believe, and you can't be poisoned
2021-10-07T19:50:53 < mawk> or yeah, don't mix veal with the milk of his mother or some stuff like that
2021-10-07T19:50:53 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: not eating pork in hot climate makes plenty of sense, it becomes dangerous too quickly.
2021-10-07T19:51:05 < mawk> that is practical advice too, and it doesn't increase food safety
2021-10-07T19:51:30 < PaulFertser> mawk: that's a good point, I agree sounds absolutely absurd.
2021-10-07T19:53:03 < englishman> is circumcision related to decreased sti rates because of the highly religious sects that practice circumcision also practice abstinence?
2021-10-07T19:53:34 < mouseghost> who knows
2021-10-07T19:53:52 < jpa-> or maybe sex just becomes less fun ;)
2021-10-07T19:54:02 < englishman> also
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2021-10-07T19:54:58 < kakium69> ##cuttinggenitals32
2021-10-07T19:55:34 < mawk> what I mean is that the bible got things right by chance PaulFertser
2021-10-07T19:55:43 < mawk> but yeah maybe things like pork were rooted in reality
2021-10-07T19:55:50 < mawk> they saw pork spoiled faster than the other meats
2021-10-07T19:56:00 < mawk> they hadn't invented salting yet
2021-10-07T19:56:39 < jpa-> could be trichinella also
2021-10-07T19:56:43 < PaulFertser> mawk: they also have rules about washing dishes thoroughly etc.
2021-10-07T19:56:59 < englishman> it does say if there are sick people around you that you should wear a mask
2021-10-07T19:57:29 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-07T19:57:32 < mawk> and torn clothes
2021-10-07T19:57:44 < mawk> half the sentence makes sense, so we forget the other half
2021-10-07T19:58:21 < englishman> usury is just as bad as adultery and murder, too
2021-10-07T19:58:33 < mawk> it says cover your face, wear torn clothes, live in the outskirts of the city
2021-10-07T19:58:43 < mawk> and maybe something like announce your arrival but I don't remember
2021-10-07T19:59:52 < jadew> call in first
2021-10-07T20:00:09 < mouseghost> dont have gay sex too
2021-10-07T20:01:12 < mouseghost> what, why are you all so silent
2021-10-07T20:01:13 < englishman> what does the bible say about going up in the air just 86km, with zero horizontal velocity and claiming you're an astronaut
2021-10-07T20:01:38 < mouseghost> englishman, they tried that with babel
2021-10-07T20:01:44 < jadew> lol
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2021-10-07T20:03:30 < jpa-> mouseghost: "don't lie with a man as one lies with a woman"   well duh, of course you need to do it a bit differently, but don't worry, you'll figure it out!
2021-10-07T20:04:04 < mouseghost> lying is bad, mkay
2021-10-07T20:04:52 < jadew> is everyone here a bible scholar?
2021-10-07T20:05:25 < kakium69> nerds read bible.. in hebrew and greek
2021-10-07T20:05:28 < jadew> ##bible32 read as bible trini two
2021-10-07T20:05:47 < mawk> I have a few at home
2021-10-07T20:05:53 < mawk> several different translations
2021-10-07T20:06:12 < jadew> I had it on audio tapes
2021-10-07T20:06:17 < mawk> I have the new world bible as well, from jeovah witnesses
2021-10-07T20:06:23 < jadew> it was a huge collection, listened to it several times
2021-10-07T20:07:59 < mawk> just have gay sex standing jpa- 
2021-10-07T20:08:00 < mawk> easy fix
2021-10-07T20:08:11 < mawk> you're not lying on the bed, so the verse doesn't apply
2021-10-07T20:08:48 < jpa-> better choose a mate with legs of the same length
2021-10-07T20:08:56 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-07T20:09:22 < mawk> or use a little stool
2021-10-07T20:09:38 < jpa-> eww, don't mess stool with sex
2021-10-07T20:09:42 < mawk> :(
2021-10-07T20:10:05 < jadew> not without a cup
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2021-10-07T20:14:07 < mawk> yes you must not let your seed touch the ground
2021-10-07T20:14:15 < mawk> so leave it in a cup to avoid the wrath of god
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2021-10-07T20:14:44 < mawk> just at the right moment catphish 
2021-10-07T20:14:51 < mawk> are you circumcised?
2021-10-07T20:17:21 < catphish> mawk: no
2021-10-07T20:17:39 < catphish> it's not very popular in UK
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2021-10-07T20:44:37 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337706779708489728/895727919496822824/unknown.png   this little quick project PCB is done i think....
2021-10-07T20:45:09 < kakium69> very cool
2021-10-07T20:45:31 < kakium69> but is it rgb light hub?
2021-10-07T20:45:50 < Mangy_Dog> kinda
2021-10-07T20:45:59 < kakium69> for comfuser?
2021-10-07T20:46:00 < Mangy_Dog> not a hub
2021-10-07T20:46:03 < Mangy_Dog> but is a controller
2021-10-07T20:46:09 < Mangy_Dog> but mainly its a hardware monitor
2021-10-07T20:46:11 < kakium69> conputer*
2021-10-07T20:46:45 < kakium69> why SD card?
2021-10-07T20:46:53 < Mangy_Dog> backup
2021-10-07T20:47:05 < Mangy_Dog> the main goal is to use the flash chip to store the LCD graphic assets onto
2021-10-07T20:47:13 < Mangy_Dog> but if i cant get it to work.... the sd card is backup
2021-10-07T20:48:16 < kakium69> SPI flash?
2021-10-07T20:48:23 < kakium69> NOR?
2021-10-07T20:48:38 < kakium69> should be a problem even for a kaki
2021-10-07T20:48:52 < Mangy_Dog> spi flash
2021-10-07T20:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> the thing is........
2021-10-07T20:49:32 < Mangy_Dog> the library is setup to use fat32 and assets stored in a gd2 file
2021-10-07T20:50:43 < Mangy_Dog> im planning on having a USB storage side to the main program. That will wxpose the flash chip. And i can put the file on there.......... and then switch the switch marked USB/FLASH back to USb and the program then ignores the usb storage option and treats the chip as spi flash, and then i need to figure out how to make the library use it like a SD card in SPi mode
2021-10-07T20:50:46 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
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2021-10-07T20:52:23 < Mangy_Dog> theres a non zero chance that ill have to totally rewrite the asset loading functions of the library... and its a bit iffy, if im capable of doing that
2021-10-07T20:52:34 < zyp> nah
2021-10-07T20:52:57 < zyp> that's the wrong layer to worry about
2021-10-07T20:53:14 < Mangy_Dog> oh?
2021-10-07T20:54:09 < zyp> both sd cards and spi flash are block devices, so you can just swap it out at the block layer and leave the filesystem layer
2021-10-07T20:55:16 < Mangy_Dog> yeah maybe
2021-10-07T20:55:25 < Mangy_Dog> thats the iffy part
2021-10-07T20:56:03 < Mangy_Dog> i dont knoe if simply swapping the device pin will make it appear like the same storage as an sd card
2021-10-07T20:56:06 < qyx> it would be iffy if you tried to use fat32 on a spi nor for writing
2021-10-07T20:56:08 < Mangy_Dog> for the library to then read correctly
2021-10-07T20:56:20 < qyx> but reading is izi-pizi
2021-10-07T20:56:24 < zyp> no, they are different protocols
2021-10-07T20:57:09 < zyp> qyx, I don't see how writing would be any harder than reading
2021-10-07T20:57:56 < qyx> because nor flash is not a block device per se, nor flash has the "flash semantics", ie. read/write/erase
2021-10-07T20:57:56 < zyp> IIRC SD cards expects you to do writes by 512B sectors
2021-10-07T20:58:25 < qyx> it would be the same if you did erase before any write
2021-10-07T20:58:33 < qyx> which is subpotimal
2021-10-07T20:58:43 < qyx> also, fakt table would wear off very quickly
2021-10-07T20:58:47 < qyx> *fat
2021-10-07T21:00:31 < Mangy_Dog> like i say.... iffy :D
2021-10-07T21:03:38 < Mangy_Dog> in the end its all just data....
2021-10-07T21:03:47 < Mangy_Dog> getting those 1s and 0s into the gpu ram
2021-10-07T21:04:01 < Mangy_Dog> how ill do that im not sure
2021-10-07T21:04:27 < Mangy_Dog> though i just remembered, im not actually going to use the gd2 file, ill be dealing with raw binary files of the assets now....
2021-10-07T21:04:36 < Mangy_Dog> that would at least make it a tad easier
2021-10-07T21:09:45 < aandrew> karlp: iodine was a bit of a trick to get set up, and at least on osx clients you have to manually screw with the routing table after the link is up, but I just ssh -D8080 iodined IP and socks my way through it. easier than messing with the table
2021-10-07T21:11:19 < BrainDamage> what kind of nazi firewall do you have to bypass to have to use iodine?
2021-10-07T21:11:38 < aandrew> BrainDamage: mostly just public pay-me-for-internet shit wifi hotspots
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2021-10-07T21:12:24 < BrainDamage> in my experience a run-out-the-mill vpn on port 443 is enough for 99% of the things
2021-10-07T21:12:51 < aandrew> but one company had a particuarly strict firewall, 80/443 only but that was bypassable with sslh
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--- Day changed Fri Oct 08 2021
2021-10-08T00:10:45 < qyx> so what do I need for a 100ball 0.5 mm pitch bga?
2021-10-08T00:10:58 < qyx> hm it should be doable without vias
2021-10-08T00:11:29 < qyx> so 0.1 mm trace/space + 0.2 mm pad?
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2021-10-08T01:38:52 < upgrdman> it's a fucking miracle. stm32 i need is back in stock. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STM32F730Z8T6/9453366
2021-10-08T01:39:22 < Steffanx> Better buy before you share links
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2021-10-08T01:43:36 < zyp> huh, nice
2021-10-08T01:47:27 < qyx> around 5 models appeared on mouser too
2021-10-08T01:47:34 < qyx> in 1000s qty
2021-10-08T01:47:53 < qyx> but two are unusable wlcsp
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2021-10-08T02:34:48 < upgrdman> placed my order. of course, the analog mux i need is sold out now, because fuck me. oh well, at least i can work on the firmware now.
2021-10-08T02:43:04 < aandrew> first time doing a ddr3l design. the fpga has hard ip core but layout and config are going to be interesting
2021-10-08T02:43:14 < aandrew> just a single chip thankfully
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2021-10-08T04:36:00 < aandrew> hahaha
2021-10-08T04:36:13 < aandrew> this woman's all over this cop, totally infatuated
2021-10-08T04:36:30 < aandrew> "could I have your number, you know, just in case something comes back to me later"
2021-10-08T04:36:41 < aandrew> "Sure... it's 9... 1... 1.  That's it."
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2021-10-08T06:13:21 < jadew> I designed something, sent it for production, and now I can't find the correct screw size :)
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2021-10-08T11:02:18 < c10ud> ever used STMPE811 touch screen controller? Is there any low effort replacement?
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2021-10-08T11:15:30 < c10ud> https://forum.digikey.com/t/s-touch-series-stmpe811qtr-alternative/13660 yeah thanks digikey, if only it was pin-to-pin
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2021-10-08T12:34:49 < mawk> I looked at government statistics Steffanx 
2021-10-08T12:34:54 < mawk> there are only 380 frenchies in delft
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2021-10-08T13:17:24 < Steffanx> Like real French or dual/triple passported mawk?
2021-10-08T13:24:14 < karlp> probably just people who felt the desire to report themselves.
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2021-10-08T14:25:59 < mawk> not many french have dual passport Steffanx 
2021-10-08T14:26:05 < mawk> unless you're talking about the ones from maghreb
2021-10-08T14:26:20 < mawk> but then this breed of french isn't found usually in Delft, I've never seen it
2021-10-08T14:26:26 < mawk> they go to amsterdam for weed and whores
2021-10-08T14:27:25 < mawk> almost every single time I heard french speaking in amsterdam it was a group of young scum smoking weed in the street and proclaiming loudly that they're going to visit the whores or whatever
2021-10-08T14:57:50 < ventyl> so, did ST buy Nordic or not?
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2021-10-08T16:11:32  * karlp never saw any more than rumours
2021-10-08T16:13:12 < jadew> tf... it's trading at a 95 PE
2021-10-08T16:13:27 < karlp> like PE means anything outside concrete...
2021-10-08T16:13:35 < jadew> it does
2021-10-08T16:15:28 < jadew> oh, it has nice growth tho
2021-10-08T16:18:03 < karlp> no, you assigned value to it.
2021-10-08T16:18:14 < karlp> you choose to assign different value to other investors :)
2021-10-08T16:18:28 < jadew> what do you mean?
2021-10-08T16:18:53 < karlp> what do you think PE should be? you clearly think 95 is "wrong" but current investors obviously think that's fine :)
2021-10-08T16:19:06 < jadew> current investors are retards
2021-10-08T16:19:39 < jadew> the PE is a function of how much you think the company is going to return to you in say a decade
2021-10-08T16:19:41 < karlp> you're the one here who lost on a margin call :)
2021-10-08T16:19:51 < karlp> no, PE is a literal expression of a balance sheet.
2021-10-08T16:19:52 < jadew> that was a misjudgement
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2021-10-08T16:20:06 < jadew> it is, but I'm talking about what it should be
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2021-10-08T16:20:11 < karlp> hahaha
2021-10-08T16:20:34 < jadew> the current PE is insane, because it expects this level of growth to continue for ever
2021-10-08T16:20:42 < jadew> that's unreasonable
2021-10-08T16:21:21 < jadew> also, regarding my margin call, the stupid shit bounced back
2021-10-08T16:21:59 < jadew> it recovered in one day, everything it lost in two weeks :/
2021-10-08T16:22:18 < jadew> that's further proof that the investors are retarded
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2021-10-08T16:24:29 < karlp> so you should understand that what you consider to be "truth" wrt PE isn't actualyl relevant to the market.
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2021-10-08T16:24:38 < karlp> and certainly not in tech stocks
2021-10-08T16:24:55 < jadew> karlp, tech stocks are stocks too, it's all about the earnings
2021-10-08T16:25:09 < karlp> right, and twitter PE is at 136. what's your point?
2021-10-08T16:25:34 < jadew> tech companies cannot grow infinitely, unlike what many people believe
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2021-10-08T16:25:46 < jadew> so the valuation is out of whack, hence the stupid PEs
2021-10-08T16:26:33 < jadew> the current price reflects future value, which means that growth is taken into account, but in many cases that growth is expected to INCREASE
2021-10-08T16:26:37 < jadew> like with TSLA
2021-10-08T16:27:21 < jadew> in this case, the growth is great, but you can't expect it to double in size each year
2021-10-08T16:28:18 < sauce> wait till you figure out that the entire economic system hinges on continuous exponential growth and the earth has a limited pool of resources to exploit
2021-10-08T16:28:48 < karlp> shush you....
2021-10-08T16:29:00 < karlp> bright side, we're not limited by finding more gold anymore :)
2021-10-08T16:29:11 < sauce> dyson sphere when
2021-10-08T16:29:18 < karlp> hahaha we're so far from that.
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2021-10-08T16:30:21 < jadew> we're about to get the opposite of a dyson sphere given how many satellites we're launching
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2021-10-08T16:31:35 < sauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LbxDZRgA4
2021-10-08T16:33:32 < karlp> jadew:lol, really? isn't it more like, "you actually have to consider that there might be something in orbit now" vs "lol yeet that thing into space dudes" ?
2021-10-08T16:36:23 < jpa-> jadew: you yourself engage in stock speculation pretty often, and then you are amazed that stock speculation on tech stocks inflates prices?
2021-10-08T16:36:58 < jadew> I'm not really amazed
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2021-10-08T16:41:38 < catphish> is anyone able to identify this IC? https://i.imgur.com/06ZgbSV.jpg
2021-10-08T16:41:57 < jpa-> looks shiny
2021-10-08T16:42:08 < catphish> is is unusually shiy
2021-10-08T16:42:12 < catphish> *shiny
2021-10-08T16:42:22 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/pmic-battery-management/713?s=N4IgTCBcDaIA4BsAsBWFIC6BfIA
2021-10-08T16:42:25 < jpa-> was pretty easy
2021-10-08T16:42:39 < jpa-> BQ76PL455
2021-10-08T16:43:43 < catphish> thank you!
2021-10-08T16:44:13 < jpa-> in general, picking part of the product code and sticking it into digikey or mouser search works pretty well
2021-10-08T16:44:15 < catphish> i was also expecting it to be a battery management chip :)
2021-10-08T16:44:25 < karlp> has that been coated?
2021-10-08T16:44:29 < catphish> i typed in various parts of what was written on there :(
2021-10-08T16:44:39 < catphish> clearly not the correct substring
2021-10-08T16:45:00 < jpa-> :)
2021-10-08T16:45:21 < jpa-> and yeah, looks like the whole board has some conformal coating
2021-10-08T16:45:32 < jpa-> annoying to probe such boards
2021-10-08T16:45:51 < catphish> so this is the monitoring board from an EV battery module
2021-10-08T16:46:23 < catphish> someone's asked me to reverse engineer it so they can use the batteries without having to replace the electronics
2021-10-08T16:46:38 < catphish> with the board and datasheet in hand it should be fairly easy
2021-10-08T16:46:39 < srk> :D fun
2021-10-08T16:46:56 < catphish> i love projects where the options are success or big fire
2021-10-08T16:48:10 < catphish> they're daisychanged with a 4 pin connector, should be pretty easy to figure out now
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2021-10-08T18:33:12 < PaulFertser> Pajero Owners are literally going round in circles trying to fix their orientation: http://www.pocuk.com/faq/resetcompass.htm
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2021-10-08T18:36:06 < mawk> for me I just do a 8 with the phone
2021-10-08T18:36:34 < jadew> my phone won't fix itself
2021-10-08T18:36:37 < jadew> I tried many times
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2021-10-08T19:23:43 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-10-08T20:36:35 < catphish> i don't even seem to be able to make this chip wake up :(
2021-10-08T20:48:05 < Steffanx> to wake something up it has to be asleep, is it asleep?
2021-10-08T21:46:27 < catphish> Steffanx: you'd think so, but conveniently the wakeup signal is also a reset signal :)
2021-10-08T21:46:45 < catphish> so i don't care if it's asleep, i just want to kick it into life
2021-10-08T21:49:09 < catphish> also, it's probbaly not working because i misread the frequency of the reset signal
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2021-10-08T22:30:03 < Steffanx> kakium69 why so late?
2021-10-08T22:30:15 < kakium69> late?
2021-10-08T22:30:20 < kakium69> early!
2021-10-08T22:32:51 < catphish> turns out 10khz is not the same as 100khz, hopefully i'll have more luck when i try again
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2021-10-08T22:40:28 < Steffanx> mawk:  today i learned about air duster addiction. something for you maybe?
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 09 2021
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2021-10-09T02:33:14 < aandrew> catphish> i don't even seem to be able to make this chip wake up
2021-10-09T02:33:25 < aandrew> there's a saying: you cannot wake someone who is only pretending to be asleep
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2021-10-09T02:37:05 < catphish> that's not a saying contained in this datasheet ;)
2021-10-09T02:37:15 < catphish> thouh it way be true, i haven't succeeded yet
2021-10-09T02:39:04 < catphish> i don't think i'm *supposed* to be interfacing with this IC in this way
2021-10-09T02:39:11 < catphish> but i'm gonna try anyway
2021-10-09T02:44:17 < aandrew> yeah I got a samd51 dev board to see how it's SWD behaves with blank/corrupted firmware 
2021-10-09T02:44:35 < aandrew> they don't have a ROM bootloader, but they do offer standardized bootloaders and the usual flash region protection
2021-10-09T02:44:42 < aandrew> not what I'd like, but whatev
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2021-10-09T03:04:12 < catphish> i'm kinda confused about how this battery monitoring IC is supposed to be used in a real application, it daisy chains, which is awesome, but the device at the bottom of the chain is supposed to be connected to a MCU, on a different port from the daisychain port
2021-10-09T03:04:51 < catphish> so if i have a bunch of identical batteries with these things installed in them, exposing only the daisychain port, how does the MCU ever connect
2021-10-09T03:05:00 < catphish> https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slusc51c/slusc51c.pdf?ts=1633691907593
2021-10-09T03:05:17 < catphish> page 1, application makes no sense, i'm not going to put the MCU inside the first battery module
2021-10-09T03:23:00 < catphish> the solution lies here https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-TLE9015QU-DataSheet-v01_10-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d46272e49d2a01734815250e0cd9
2021-10-09T03:37:46 < catphish> i can't find a TI version though
2021-10-09T03:40:18 < catphish> never mind, here it is :) https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq79600-q1.pdf?ts=1633675400164&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fsitesearch%252Fdocs%252Funiversalsearch.tsp%253FlangPref%253Den-US%2526searchTerm%253DDaisy-Chain%2BUART%2526nr%253D711
2021-10-09T03:40:30 < catphish> not that anyone cares, but information++ :)
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2021-10-09T15:05:12 < catphish> so is there a chance in hell of me sourcing one of these BQ79600-Q1 without paying £300 for the dev kit? 
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2021-10-09T15:14:05 < catphish> oh, china might have my back :)
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2021-10-09T15:55:32 < catphish> meh, if the project happens i'll just buy the dev board
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2021-10-09T18:50:20 < mawk> I'm back Steffanx 
2021-10-09T18:50:43 < mawk> I had my suitcase full of cancer pain medication I proposed to "dispose of"
2021-10-09T18:51:03 < mawk> and of course the fucking customs searched my train
2021-10-09T18:51:14 < mawk> first time it ever happens
2021-10-09T18:51:33 < mawk> but being a white guy helped I guess, they skipped me
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2021-10-09T18:56:30 < englishman> found actual pic of mawk https://i.ibb.co/MP7kG5F/Baquette-Pack-small.jpg
2021-10-09T18:56:42 < mawk> lol
2021-10-09T18:56:47 < mawk> I have long hair
2021-10-09T18:57:18 < englishman> right. copypaste fail. i meant this one of course https://odditymall.com/includes/content/baguette-bag-is-a-slim-tall-shoulder-bag-to-safely-transport-your-baguette-0.jpg
2021-10-09T19:00:08 < Steffanx> What about the bag with air duster mawk?
2021-10-09T19:00:10 < mawk> lol
2021-10-09T19:00:27 < mawk> which air duster Steffanx ?
2021-10-09T19:00:47 < Steffanx> I read air duster huffing is a thing to get high
2021-10-09T19:00:51 < mawk> ah
2021-10-09T19:01:00 < mawk> well it's just butane
2021-10-09T19:01:16 < mawk> you might as well breathe in a plastic bag and get high on hypoxia
2021-10-09T19:01:27 < mawk> and your own CO2
2021-10-09T19:03:36 < mawk> you need to learn to make the difference between good and bad things Steffanx 
2021-10-09T19:03:56 < mawk> whenever you see "pain medication" it means it's harmless and pleasurable
2021-10-09T19:04:16 < mawk> but when you see "huff random aerosol" you need to think brain damage and sudden cardiac arrest
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2021-10-09T19:04:44 < mawk> using this simple rule of thumb I stayed alive for 13 years
2021-10-09T19:05:55 < englishman> We got drank. We got kush. We got bars in this bitch. Bars in this bitch, bars in this bitch. We just tryna have a party, get retarded in this bitch. Party in this bitch, get retarded in this bitch. - mawk
2021-10-09T19:06:33 < mawk> that's a lot of people for a single bitch
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2021-10-09T19:16:33 < sauce> all the air dusters i've bought were difluoroethane
2021-10-09T19:16:49 < sauce> and enough bitterant to definitely not want to inhale it lol
2021-10-09T19:18:53 < mawk> maybe you mistake with party balloons Steffanx 
2021-10-09T19:18:59 < mawk> laughing gas
2021-10-09T19:19:13 < sauce> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00223-017-0305-0
2021-10-09T19:19:35 < mawk> nice
2021-10-09T19:19:47 < englishman> cool
2021-10-09T19:19:48 < mawk> the guy huffed so many halogenated shit that he got his own case study
2021-10-09T19:19:52 < mawk> I want mine too
2021-10-09T19:35:07 < Steffanx> No, mawk
2021-10-09T19:35:46 < Steffanx> It was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl2ustwRJ1Y
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2021-10-09T20:14:21 < catphish> well after 2 evenings of messing about, i cannot get this battery monitoring board to show any signs of life, i've never failed so hard at hacking anything :'(
2021-10-09T20:14:39 < catphish> i probably need to buy the official interface IC to talk to it
2021-10-09T20:26:14 < BrainDamage> that reminds me of the guy that got chronic bronchitis from breathing "butter flavoured" microwave popcorn 3 times a day
2021-10-09T20:26:27 < catphish> that sounds mildly unpleasant
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2021-10-09T20:58:11 < mawk> BrainDamage the bronchiolitis obliterans thing?
2021-10-09T20:58:29 < mawk> when you breathe diacetyl
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2021-10-09T21:31:53 < catphish> they really need to start releasing movies on streaming sooner, or make better dynamic range cinema rips
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2021-10-09T22:19:21 < Steffanx> kakium69: time for some 2003s music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZk6XKlhP8
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2021-10-09T22:20:52 < BrainDamage> mawk: yes
2021-10-09T22:21:51 < Steffanx> *2001
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2021-10-10T15:19:56 < englishman> Are all Stab-Lok panels bad?
2021-10-10T15:19:56 < englishman> No, not all FPE panels are bad. Some were never installed and as long as those panels remain undisturbed they are perfectly fine!
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2021-10-10T15:32:52 < karlp> lol
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2021-10-10T20:04:05 < catphish> today i'm having fun with a bidirectional serial communication line, so much fun when one host interrupts another ones transmission because it doesn't like it
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2021-10-10T22:25:31 < rgr> Im really confused with the user guide for my stm32f030r8. ld2 is supposed to by "pa5" but the table says pa5 is "spi1_sck". Help me get over this ;)
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2021-10-10T22:32:51 < mouseghost> huh?
2021-10-10T22:33:04 < mouseghost> rgr, maybe it depends on other bits
2021-10-10T22:33:08 < mouseghost> so called alternate function
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2021-10-10T22:57:12 < rgr> The docs are unfathomable. chicken and egg. "MODERy[1:0]". Where did "y" from from?!? I need to take a break. And as for what manual you find the info in... its like a lucky dip between user manual, reference manual and datasheet. horrendous.
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2021-10-10T23:24:59 < kakium69> hello ##dudes
2021-10-10T23:34:29 < mouseghost> hellllllllo kakium69
2021-10-10T23:34:51 < mouseghost> haha
2021-10-10T23:34:53 < kakium69> helloium
2021-10-10T23:34:53 < mouseghost> rgr weakling
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2021-10-10T23:41:51 < Steffanx> kakium69 hows the sauna?
2021-10-10T23:42:13 < kakium69> I need to ask you the same question
2021-10-10T23:43:26 < Steffanx> Saunaing is not a dutch thing. We have a oven and waffles 
2021-10-10T23:43:29 < Steffanx> An*
2021-10-10T23:43:38 < kakium69> is our statutory sauna been built yet steff?
2021-10-10T23:46:04 < Steffanx> I dont think I need a sauna
2021-10-10T23:51:50 < kakium69> fair enough
2021-10-10T23:52:28 < kakium69> you get a pass
2021-10-10T23:56:16 < Steffanx> Or maybe I do
2021-10-10T23:56:22 < Steffanx>  I like relaxing
2021-10-10T23:56:42 < kakium69> yes
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2021-10-11T03:45:43 < jadew> man... microchip sucks
2021-10-11T03:46:09 < jadew> it reeks of old corporate incompetence
2021-10-11T03:46:49 < jadew> their software was always poor quality shit, that looked like it had a lot of money behind it, but no actual skill or talent
2021-10-11T03:47:14 < jadew> and I keep getting this feeling no matter the interaction I have with them
2021-10-11T03:48:15 < jadew> you look for an IC click on the link, and it doesn't fucking work
2021-10-11T03:50:05 < karlp> microchip's awesome!
2021-10-11T03:50:15 < karlp> for hardware...
2021-10-11T03:50:59 < jadew> I never got to become particularly familiar with any of their MCUs because of the software side of things
2021-10-11T03:51:06 < jadew> there were better alternatives
2021-10-11T04:06:14 < karlp> oh, pics are nasty, but look at what they have now? 
2021-10-11T04:06:30 < karlp> look at all the smsc and micrel shit they own :)
2021-10-11T04:06:38 < karlp> and low low prices!
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2021-10-11T06:26:46 < aandrew> jadew: tell me about it. I'm being forced into a SAMD51 design and holy fuck mplab was shit in the win95 days and now it's just 10x worse with this harmony gui bullshit
2021-10-11T06:26:56 < aandrew> cubemx is a breath of fresh air compared to this horseshit
2021-10-11T06:27:29 < aandrew> however microchip does seem to have stock issues handled, possibly because nobody buys their shit
2021-10-11T06:27:44 < jadew> I remember atmel studio was pretty good
2021-10-11T06:27:47 < jadew> you can't use that?
2021-10-11T06:28:12 < aandrew> nope, it's all rolled into mplabx and harmony3 now it seems
2021-10-11T06:28:26 < aandrew> I don't want an IDE at all, I just want a pin config and project gen, I'll do the rest
2021-10-11T06:28:45 < aandrew> also samd doesn't seem to have internal high speed rc osc either, wtf
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2021-10-11T12:44:48 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32u5-series.html
2021-10-11T12:47:06 < mawk> "security certified" it says
2021-10-11T13:42:37 < jpa-> it also has "High integration and innovation"
2021-10-11T13:43:38 < mawk> yeah but that's marketing talk
2021-10-11T13:43:47 < mawk> the security certification is real stuff
2021-10-11T13:43:48 < mawk> I hope
2021-10-11T13:44:03 < jpa-> luls
2021-10-11T13:45:56 < mawk> "PSA" and "SESIP" certified
2021-10-11T13:45:56 < mawk> and some PCI requirements stuff
2021-10-11T13:46:19 < jpa-> does any of that mean anything to you?
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2021-10-11T14:14:48 < mawk> PCI yes jpa- 
2021-10-11T14:15:02 < mawk> I've had to put our servers up to something similar to one of the pci-dss specs
2021-10-11T14:15:29 < mawk> and running daily scans to see if any configuration deviated from the expected
2021-10-11T14:38:44 < mawk> when guys come from behind me on the street they often try to check me out
2021-10-11T14:38:51 < mawk> and then they realize I'm not a girl
2021-10-11T14:39:17 < mawk> some guys keep staring at me though
2021-10-11T15:02:52 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0oXY4nDxE
2021-10-11T15:11:27 < mawk> lol
2021-10-11T15:12:27 < mawk> is the gun a real gun or a metaphor
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2021-10-11T18:49:08 < Steffanx> Do you use hair washing products for female mawk?
2021-10-11T18:49:30 < Steffanx> And do you brush it hourly?
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2021-10-11T19:51:43 < mawk> no Steffanx just daily
2021-10-11T19:51:48 < mawk> for around 20mn
2021-10-11T19:52:08 < mawk> because I have a lot of hair
2021-10-11T19:52:22 < mawk> so it takes time
2021-10-11T19:53:29 < qyx> 20 minutes?
2021-10-11T19:53:43 < mawk> yes
2021-10-11T19:53:43 < mawk> why
2021-10-11T19:53:45 < mawk> there's a lot of knots
2021-10-11T19:54:03 < mawk> so I have to gently brush to remove knots without damaging the hair
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2021-10-11T20:22:29 < Steffanx> Time to go for 3mm mawk
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2021-10-11T21:13:39 < machinehum> https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/18650-battery/
2021-10-11T21:13:53 < machinehum> Is this telling me you can draw 20A cont. from an 18650?
2021-10-11T21:13:56 < machinehum> That seems bullshit
2021-10-11T21:14:13 < machinehum> I thought they were 1C, so like 2.5A
2021-10-11T21:22:56 < kakium69> ye generic ones yes
2021-10-11T21:23:06 < machinehum> https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/Sony_VTC6_Specification_Sheet.pdf
2021-10-11T21:23:36 < machinehum> I guess the vape industry has been disruptive in the 18650 market
2021-10-11T21:24:06 < kakium69> iirc there are 25 or 30A rated ones
2021-10-11T21:26:54 < kakium69> https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
2021-10-11T21:29:04 < machinehum> Nice link
2021-10-11T21:29:06 < machinehum> Thanks
2021-10-11T21:30:11 < kakium69> but normal high power brand 18650 usually easily handles 10 15amps
2021-10-11T21:31:34 < englishman> capacity is reduced quite a bit but you can certainly draw 20+ amps from some cells
2021-10-11T21:32:20 < kakium69> yes
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2021-10-11T21:32:25 < englishman> cool, that vtc6 actually gives capacity @ 10 A and it's quite good
2021-10-11T21:32:39 < kakium69> you don't get the highest amperage and highest capacity in the same package
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2021-10-11T21:36:54 < kakium69> but you can get lowest amperage and lowest capacity in the same package!
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2021-10-11T22:05:44 < machinehum> deal
2021-10-11T22:09:59 < kakium69> 1100mAh and maybe 500mA!
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2021-10-11T22:40:18 < zyp> karlp, did I merge all your laks stuff already, or did you add more since last I merged?
2021-10-11T22:47:58 < zyp> my next project at work is a one-off prototype, so I'm gonna throw laks v2 at it :)
2021-10-11T22:56:57 < catphish> i got some shampoo recently that seems crazy foamy, it's vegan, and even a small amount seems to form a huge lather crown in my moderately long hair, i love it, smells nice too
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2021-10-11T23:38:45 < zyp> I hate it when they put meat in my shampoo
2021-10-11T23:40:52 < Steffanx> i never tried it. maybe i like it.
2021-10-11T23:40:56 < Steffanx> Burger Shampoo.
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2021-10-11T23:48:15 < kakium69> shampoo is a scam
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2021-10-11T23:48:43 < catphish> a scam that cleans fibres very effectively
2021-10-11T23:50:40 < kakium69> remove grease -> irritate skin -> skin goes to full steam to produce grease -> grease
2021-10-11T23:51:18 < catphish> so, i would like help designing something, a transceiver for a bidirectional, differential, ac-coupled serial transmission line sending manchester encoded data at 2mbps at 10v p-t-p (0-5v per line)
2021-10-11T23:51:56 < kakium69> 10volts why
2021-10-11T23:52:38 < kakium69> or 5?
2021-10-11T23:52:46 < catphish> kakium69: not really my experience, i tried quitting shampoo for 2 weeks to see what would happen, hair got gradually greasier, use shampoo every couple of days, don't really notice grease or irritation, so works for m
2021-10-11T23:53:35 < catphish> kakium69: each line is driven between 0 and 5v, so the difference is 10v p-t-p (+/- 5v momentarily)
2021-10-11T23:53:52 < catphish> ie the extremes are 0v and 5v or 5v and 0v
2021-10-11T23:54:15 < kakium69> ah yes
2021-10-11T23:54:50 < catphish> one irritating part is that it idles at +5v, which means that after decoupling, there's an unpleasant -5v offset
2021-10-11T23:56:52 < catphish> this is roughly what it looks like (the negative spikes would be short bursts of data, but the result is much the same) https://tinyurl.com/yje75cn2
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2021-10-11T23:57:40 < catphish> the 1k resistor represents the receiver, which basically needs to be a comparator
2021-10-11T23:58:09 < catphish> it's also bidirectional, so i need to send data in the same manner
2021-10-11T23:58:29 < catphish> i'm thinking a RS485 transceiver might take care of this
2021-10-11T23:58:35 < catphish> but not sure how to bias it
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2021-10-12T00:09:20 < kakium69> I did sin Steffanx
2021-10-12T00:09:42 < Steffanx> Ohno, you went into the sauna with your pants on?
2021-10-12T00:10:19 < kakium69>  no I ate choclate then when it melted in my mouth
2021-10-12T00:10:28 < kakium69> potato chips go in
2021-10-12T00:11:29 < kakium69> salty crunchyness and melted choclate start a fusion
2021-10-12T00:11:54 < Steffanx> Oh, but fusions can be nice 
2021-10-12T00:12:32 < kakium69> it was so good - it was sinful
2021-10-12T00:13:13 < kakium69> I was inspired by stuff I saw in amsterdam
2021-10-12T00:13:30 < kakium69> they sold choclate covered burgers and pizza
2021-10-12T00:14:02 < Steffanx> I like cheese with chocolate paste. No hazelnut crap, but real chocolate.
2021-10-12T00:14:21 < kakium69> oh
2021-10-12T00:14:37 < kakium69> you have cheese and then butter it up with choc paste?
2021-10-12T00:15:14 < kakium69> that sounds like stuff to have a glass of red wine with
2021-10-12T00:15:53 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-10-12T00:16:16 < catphish> looks like one can probably just decouple both ends and stop worrying about DC offset https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/138/Solution-by-TI.png
2021-10-12T00:17:53 < catphish> i can only hope transceivers will dampen the initial -10v spike with internal tvs, though one could manually put a 5v tvs across the chip to be sure
2021-10-12T00:18:53 < kakium69> how much energy anyway will pass with one transient through that transformer?
2021-10-12T00:18:53 < catphish> everything suggests it'll be fine and i should stop worrying
2021-10-12T00:19:46 < catphish> well presumably "fuck all"
2021-10-12T00:23:05 < kakium69> what are the parameters for internal tvs?
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2021-10-12T00:25:46 < catphish> well i'm trying to guess what IC will successfully interface with this bus
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2021-10-12T00:26:19 < kakium69> not the one in example?
2021-10-12T00:27:10 < catphish> i didn't actually look at that IC, this is the one i'm thinking of using: https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2002060.pdf
2021-10-12T00:33:16 < catphish> seems like it'll be fine, just unclear if some external biasing network is a good idea
2021-10-12T00:36:34 < zyp> catphish, where does the line spec come from?
2021-10-12T00:36:46 < zyp> my first thought was also RS485 except with manchester encoding
2021-10-12T00:37:13 < zyp> also, what baudrate?
2021-10-12T00:37:52 < catphish> zyp: yeah, it's basically rs485 with manchester encoding, though specifically between 0v and 5v (though i assume the receiver doesn't need all of that), and ac coupled on both lines
2021-10-12T00:39:09 < catphish> zyp: it's a proprietary interface, the spec is here (page 32-33) https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slusc51c/slusc51c.pdf?ts=1633691907593
2021-10-12T00:39:36 < zyp> ah
2021-10-12T00:39:52 < zyp> why do you care about that?
2021-10-12T00:40:04 < catphish> zyp: i want to talk to this bus
2021-10-12T00:40:38 < zyp> isn't that what the tx/rx pins are for?
2021-10-12T00:41:07 < catphish> zyp: let me explain, this datasheet is for a battery cell monitoring IC, it's designed to be daisychained, with a microcontroller connected to tx/rx on the chip at one end
2021-10-12T00:41:24 < zyp> I know, I've looked at this stuff before
2021-10-12T00:41:52 < catphish> but here's the thing, i have a load of batteries that have these chips built in, they expose the daisychain connector on each side
2021-10-12T00:42:05 < zyp> the modules are daisychained with galvanic isolation to deal with the voltages, and you only connect to one of them to be able to talk to all of them
2021-10-12T00:42:11 < catphish> i have no idea how they intended a MCU to communicate
2021-10-12T00:43:02 < zyp> are rx/tx tied off and disconnected?
2021-10-12T00:43:11 < catphish> yes
2021-10-12T00:43:50 < catphish> now maybe... there is a special version of this battery that comes with a serial port on it, to put at one end of the chain
2021-10-12T00:44:04 < zyp> that's what I would expect
2021-10-12T00:44:05 < karlp> zyp: there's about a dozen or so extra ones in https://github.com/karlp/laks/commits/karl-top1
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2021-10-12T00:44:22 < zyp> karlp, thanks, I'll take a look tomorrow
2021-10-12T00:44:22 < catphish> but they're now being sold individually on the used market, so, that would be super messy
2021-10-12T00:44:35 < karlp> the "cal" and the "cortex- debug" are potentially dubios, the f3 and l1 stuff and more WB stuff is all pretty "just merge it yolo!"
2021-10-12T00:45:03 < zyp> catphish, could you put the chip down on a board and hook it to the end of the chain without having any local cells?
2021-10-12T00:45:06 < catphish> zyp: here's the battery i have https://i.imgur.com/jvGEwm0.jpg and this is the PCB https://i.imgur.com/st1fFK4.jpg
2021-10-12T00:45:20 < zyp> ah
2021-10-12T00:45:33 < catphish> zyp: the chip is powered by the cells, but yes, if i could source the chip, i could probably do that
2021-10-12T00:45:42 < catphish> by powering it separately
2021-10-12T00:46:18 < catphish> i actually really hope there isn't one battery in the pile i have that discretely has a uart interface on one side instead of a stacking port
2021-10-12T00:46:31 < catphish> even worse if there were 2 like that
2021-10-12T00:46:43 < zyp> TX/RX are TP144 and TP145 respectively, it looks like, they appear to be pulled up or down with 100k
2021-10-12T00:46:59 < zyp> have you considered just tapping into them on one battery?
2021-10-12T00:47:01 < catphish> so for now i'm 1) hoping they're all identical and 2) assuming i need to hack into the daisychain bus
2021-10-12T00:47:21 < zyp> is the bus protocol documented?
2021-10-12T00:47:27 < catphish> zyp: others have done that, but it seems really messy, compared to using the nice daisychain connector
2021-10-12T00:47:43 < zyp> I'd much rather deal with a documented uart protocol rather than an undocumented daisychain bus, even if the uart wiring is messier
2021-10-12T00:47:54 < catphish> zyp: the software protocol is, yes, and i've made it work by just connecting an arduino to it, sending commands, and watching the replies on my scope
2021-10-12T00:48:06 < catphish> zyp: it's well documented
2021-10-12T00:48:21 < zyp> okay, fair enough
2021-10-12T00:49:06 < zyp> the daisy chain bus is already cap coupled and presumably biased properly on the board side of it, so I'd just hook it directly to a rs485 transceiver
2021-10-12T00:49:33 < zyp> or maybe rs422, I see two pairs, are they unidirectional?
2021-10-12T00:49:51 < zyp> ah, no, one bidi, one unidirectional
2021-10-12T00:49:56 < catphish> zyp: it's bidirectional, the second pair is just for an everything-is-ok hearteat
2021-10-12T00:50:00 < zyp> so two rs485 transceivers if you want both
2021-10-12T00:50:28 < catphish> right, the board side is properly ac coupled and biased
2021-10-12T00:50:38 < karlp> funnily enough, rs485 transceivers come in dual packages for thsi sort of thing :)
2021-10-12T00:50:44 < catphish> so best case scenario i just connect up an rs485 chip and it works
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2021-10-12T00:54:55 < catphish> zyp: this is what happens when i send data with my arduino, blue is the arduino-battery link, yellow is the "upstream daisychain" out of the back of the battery
2021-10-12T00:55:50 < catphish> you can see that the arduino idles at 0v, then goes to +5v and -5v when sending data, the yellow upstream just passes through all data to the next module
2021-10-12T00:56:40 < catphish> and the reply, which only comes back on the arduino-battery link is ac coupled so just rides on top of whatever the voltage happened to be when the arduino went hi-z
2021-10-12T00:57:28 < catphish> the data rate is 2Mbps (4mbaud manchester encoding)
2021-10-12T00:58:20 < catphish> you can also see that the battery idles at +5v so its data is skewed negatively, i've been worrying about that, probably unnecessarily
2021-10-12T01:00:20 < catphish> if one only looks at the ac components, everything is beautiful https://i.imgur.com/MuWxGEf.jpg
2021-10-12T01:01:06 < catphish> i'll hook it up to a rs485 transceiver and add additional load resistors if needed, hopefully that'll be plenty
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2021-10-12T01:04:05 < catphish> the other thing i need to deal with here is actually decoding the signal, how many options do i have for receiving a manchester encoded byte (10 bits, 20 half bits) at 2Mbps?
2021-10-12T01:08:27 < catphish> i could potentially do it with an edge triggering a dma sequence on stm32, or with a pio on a rp2040
2021-10-12T01:09:09 < karlp> how continuous is it? doyou know?
2021-10-12T01:09:20 < karlp> like, is it busrty andyou can just capture and decode or what?
2021-10-12T01:26:30 < catphish> karlp: it's actually quite slow, it transmits 10 bits (1-8-1) at 2Mbaud, then sleeps for about 40us before the next byte
2021-10-12T01:26:59 < catphish> no idea why they made the bitrate so high
2021-10-12T01:28:44 < catphish> it's definitely capable of operating much faster, i can send commands with only one bit spacing between each byte and it still works, but responses and pleasantly slow
2021-10-12T01:47:30 < catphish> zyp: i just realised the datasheet shows 1000pf capacitors, 10R resitors and 5v zener diodes on the data lines, this will solve everything i was worried about if i just replicate it
2021-10-12T01:48:00 < qyx> how much zener voltage do you have today?
2021-10-12T01:48:14 < catphish> lots
2021-10-12T01:49:32 < qyx> enough of work today, tomorrow has come
2021-10-12T01:51:11 < catphish> it's still 10 minutes until tomorrow here
2021-10-12T01:51:33 < catphish> and i still have most of 2 electric vehicles to design
2021-10-12T02:08:22 < zyp> I picked up the new car today
2021-10-12T02:09:58 < zyp> posted up a for sale listing for the oldest car, and I just got three messages from what I believe is the same guy
2021-10-12T02:11:03 < zyp> I mean, messages from three users
2021-10-12T02:12:58 < zyp> I mean, I got messages from two users on the listing site, plus an SMS with an offer
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2021-10-12T02:13:33 < zyp> and both users claims they didn't send the SMS, despite one of the profiles having the same fucking phone number
2021-10-12T02:14:02 < zyp> I'm not sure what their endgame is
2021-10-12T02:15:03 < zyp> I posted up the car for 30k NOK, they offered 20k unseen, pickup tomorrow, which is not really a totally unreasonable offer
2021-10-12T02:19:53 < catphish> zyp: this happens a lot as far as i understand, usually insultingly low offers
2021-10-12T02:21:52 < catphish> you definitely can't advertise a car in the uk without people messaging offering half what you want for it, i assume they're just dealers and make money reselling
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2021-10-12T02:24:12 < zyp> I don't mind the offer itself at all, we're not expecting to get 30k for it and I wrote that price is open for discussion
2021-10-12T02:24:26 < zyp> bargaining is half the fun
2021-10-12T02:24:52 < catphish> frankly, if i were willing to accept 20,000, i wouldn't advertise something for 30,000
2021-10-12T02:25:22 < zyp> it's the part where I'm being contacted multiple times by the same person acting as somebody else that's bothering me
2021-10-12T02:25:28 < catphish> that seems like an unreasonable markup, and one likely to put off legitimate interest
2021-10-12T02:26:06 < catphish> and if i did advertise for 30k, i wouldn't accept the first offer i got that low :)
2021-10-12T02:27:07 < zyp> I didn't say I would accept it
2021-10-12T02:27:10 < catphish> zyp: tell the SMS guy that you have 2 other people interseted ;)
2021-10-12T02:27:11 < BrainDamage> zyp: maybe to estabilish a price impression?
2021-10-12T02:27:28 < BrainDamage> it's a bit dumb that they used the exact same value tho
2021-10-12T02:27:37 < zyp> and the same phone number :)
2021-10-12T02:27:46 < catphish> only one made the offer, right?
2021-10-12T02:28:26 < zyp> two offers for 20k, third one is trying to push me on how low I'm willing to go
2021-10-12T02:28:40 < catphish> but yeah, you can legitimately say you have 3 people interested :D
2021-10-12T02:28:47 < zyp> told third one that my bid is 30k and I'm waiting for a counterbid
2021-10-12T02:29:01 < zyp> nah, I called the bluff on the other account with the matching phone number
2021-10-12T02:29:21 < zyp> speaking of phone number, it's on the format xx00000x, which is suspicious in itself
2021-10-12T02:29:42 < catphish> i'd definitely say no to such a low offer in the first instance
2021-10-12T02:29:57 < zyp> but according to google it belongs to a family father in the next town over, with no visible connections to car dealers, or any other businesses for that matter
2021-10-12T02:30:01 < zyp> sure
2021-10-12T02:30:21 < catphish> well he could be legit, and just likes a bargain :)
2021-10-12T02:30:35 < catphish> but still, needs some negotiating
2021-10-12T02:30:40 < englishman> zyp, is that for the golf or the smaller thing?
2021-10-12T02:30:41 < catphish> and less lying :)
2021-10-12T02:30:43 < zyp> before I realized I were getting jerked around, I was planning to counteroffer 25k
2021-10-12T02:30:47 < englishman> $2300 usd for an electric car is very cheap
2021-10-12T02:30:48 < zyp> englishman, the peugeot ion
2021-10-12T02:31:25 < zyp> golf takes the role that the peugeot had, and we don't need a third car
2021-10-12T02:31:25 < catphish> fuck me, £2,500 for a EV?
2021-10-12T02:31:44 < englishman> they sold that here under the Smart brand
2021-10-12T02:31:52 < zyp> catphish, I told you like last week that you could have it that cheap if you wanted it
2021-10-12T02:31:53 < catphish> i've spent more than that on a motor alone
2021-10-12T02:32:12 < catphish> zyp: lol i suspect it would cost more than that to impoe
2021-10-12T02:32:14 < catphish> *import
2021-10-12T02:33:02 < zyp> if you pay the trailer rent, I'll put it on a trailer and drive it there for you
2021-10-12T02:33:07 < englishman> are they really that cheap? when i got the leaf, they were more expensive than the leaf for some reason. and they still are, starting at $10k CAD
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2021-10-12T02:33:15 < catphish> there are 3 for sale within 100 miles of me, the cheapest is £5,000
2021-10-12T02:33:33 < catphish> so your asking price is already a steal
2021-10-12T02:33:44 < zyp> we paid 65k NOK for it, 3.5 years ago
2021-10-12T02:33:50 < englishman> there is one i-miev for 6500 CAD here, 2012
2021-10-12T02:34:23 < catphish> my EV is going to cost £15k to £20k i suspect
2021-10-12T02:34:29 < englishman> that's amazingly cheap, your market must really be reaching EV saturation
2021-10-12T02:34:56 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/car/used/search.html?model=1.796.2000189&model=1.757.2000187&model=1.787.2000181&sort=PRICE_ASC
2021-10-12T02:34:57 < catphish> yeah thats amazingly cheap, it must have astonishingly shit batteries to be worth that little in batteries alone
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2021-10-12T02:35:16 < catphish> lol 0-60 is 16s :D
2021-10-12T02:35:31 < BrainDamage> rc-car engine
2021-10-12T02:35:36 < catphish> that is quite shit, but still very cheap
2021-10-12T02:36:05 < englishman> 16 kWh
2021-10-12T02:36:16 < englishman> still enough for 99% of daily use
2021-10-12T02:36:40 < zyp> car estimates 73km range
2021-10-12T02:37:06 < catphish> mine will only be 20kwh
2021-10-12T02:37:18 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=234955886
2021-10-12T02:37:19 < catphish> but that's enough to get to work and back for most people
2021-10-12T02:37:53 < englishman> looks mint
2021-10-12T02:38:11 < catphish> does indeed
2021-10-12T02:39:02 < catphish> the battery charger alone is probably worth half the cost of the car
2021-10-12T02:39:03 < englishman> is that an aux heater?
2021-10-12T02:39:11 < zyp> yeah, came with it
2021-10-12T02:39:16 < zyp> I think we've tried it once
2021-10-12T02:39:24 < zyp> too much hassle to bother with
2021-10-12T02:42:32 < zyp> and yeah, the car works great for the purpose it had, we're only selling it because we don't need three cars, and it doesn't really make sense to sell the golf instead
2021-10-12T02:52:00 < catphish> by the way, why golf and not id3? or is the latter more recent?
2021-10-12T02:52:29 < catphish> i love the golf, but the id3 looks like the better ev
2021-10-12T02:53:08 < zyp> because I bought it almost six years ago :)
2021-10-12T02:53:34 < zyp> the new car is a hyundai ioniq 5
2021-10-12T02:54:30 < zyp> considered the id4 as well, test drove both, decided I liked the ioniq better
2021-10-12T02:57:03 < zyp> I also test drove the id3, but that one was never relevant because I wanted towing capability
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2021-10-12T05:30:46 < aandrew> https://github.com/Const-me/LookupTables heh this is kind of interesting
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2021-10-12T07:04:29 < jpa-> aandrew: i wonder how it goes for ARM - especially on embedded ARM, even cortex-M7, i'd still expect LUT to be faster; but not so sure about cortex-A7
2021-10-12T07:04:59 < aandrew> yeah I think I want to run the benchmarks on a few
2021-10-12T07:08:30 < jpa-> i also wonder what assembly he got for   int i1 = int( floor( value ) );   in the LUT code, because floor() there casts to double and may even end up as a function call depending on optimization
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2021-10-12T09:09:06 < jadew> based on that benchmark, we can draw the conclusion that stdlib sucks
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2021-10-12T09:10:08 < jadew> but I guess it offers better precision than lookup and works on anything
2021-10-12T09:10:15 < jadew> *everything
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2021-10-12T09:21:57 < jpa-> and probably handles error conditions and denormal values etc.
2021-10-12T09:22:10 < jpa-> though simple polynomial approximation will handle them pretty well also
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2021-10-12T11:27:17 < jadew> my versioning server stopped working a couple of days ago (turned it off, then it wouldn't turn back on)
2021-10-12T11:27:47 < jadew> decided to fix it so I opened it up, and completely destroyed the case in the process (it was a tiny laptop)
2021-10-12T11:27:52 < srk> :( sounds like it needs versioning
2021-10-12T11:28:06 < jadew> guess what was broken... the stupid power brick
2021-10-12T11:29:29 < jadew> I guess I can power it from one of my lab PSUs until I get a proper power supply
2021-10-12T11:33:30 < jadew> lol, the knob on my tenma PSU is broken, so I could only set the current limit to a random value, I settled for 1.2A, although on the back of the laptop it says 3A
2021-10-12T11:33:55 < jadew> now it seems to fluctuate around 900 mA, so I'm praying it won't need more
2021-10-12T11:34:44 < jadew> since it's turned on, I can't adjust it anymore, because with that knob it could set it to 0 and turn it off
2021-10-12T11:35:46 < qyx> I prayed the same for my quad core odroid thing
2021-10-12T11:36:07 < qyx> I forgot my 3A one, used 1A instead
2021-10-12T11:36:28 < qyx> I wasnt able to send a single email, it powered off whenever I attempted to run thunderbird
2021-10-12T11:36:35 < jadew> haha
2021-10-12T11:36:52 < jadew> it booted up and it's using 600 mA now
2021-10-12T11:37:14 < jadew> I guess it won't get much worse than that
2021-10-12T11:37:36 < jadew> and I suppose I should fix the knob, I've been putting it off for at least two years
2021-10-12T11:39:39 < jadew> writing code without a versioning server feels like driving without a seatbelt
2021-10-12T11:40:19 < qyx> write at 1/5 the speed to reduce the risk
2021-10-12T11:42:34 < jadew> now that I look at the code, I didn't write too much
2021-10-12T11:44:23 < jadew> I pushed. It felt good.
2021-10-12T11:46:19 < srk> especially writing embedded code without version control :D
2021-10-12T11:47:31 < jpa-> no need for server to have version control, but it is a good idea to have a second place to store it :)
2021-10-12T11:50:40 < ventyl_> it definitely is
2021-10-12T11:50:51 < ventyl_> i've been storing my git folders on USB stick in wifi router
2021-10-12T11:50:56 < ventyl_> unsurprisingly it died
2021-10-12T11:51:29 < jadew> USB sticks are the worst
2021-10-12T11:52:07 < jadew> I only use USB sticks for storing the encrypted main backup, when I leave on vacation
2021-10-12T11:55:00 < ventyl_> kingston sticks are worst of the worst
2021-10-12T11:55:20 < drzacek> whats wrong with github and co.?
2021-10-12T11:55:57 < ventyl_> github => microsoft
2021-10-12T11:56:15 < drzacek> well there are others
2021-10-12T11:56:16 < jadew> I like microsoft, but I'm not an opensource hippie
2021-10-12T11:56:25 < ventyl_> gitlab is actually OK, but in the past there were limitations in place if your project wasn't public
2021-10-12T11:56:28 < drzacek> with private repositories
2021-10-12T11:56:46 < jadew> still, I would feel uneasy
2021-10-12T11:56:48 < drzacek> yeah, same for github, that's why we went for bitbucket
2021-10-12T11:57:11 < jadew> what's wrong with hosting your own server?
2021-10-12T11:57:12 < drzacek> ideally you would have own gitlab installed on your local server, and mirrored it to different locations
2021-10-12T11:57:17 < qyx> huh what github > gitlab >>>>>>>> bitbucket
2021-10-12T11:57:33 < qyx> now gitlab > github >>>>> bitbucket
2021-10-12T11:58:02 < drzacek> well my gitlab runs on rpi, so I have 0 trust in that system
2021-10-12T11:58:14 < jadew> lol
2021-10-12T11:58:38 < jadew> I have a friend who did that too and ended up regretting it
2021-10-12T11:58:41 < qyx> actually I consider using bitbucket worse than sending sources using email
2021-10-12T11:58:55 < qyx> but it improved probably since then
2021-10-12T11:59:30 < drzacek> no idea about security or trustworthiness (I think they are all the same?), but function/performance wise? its nice
2021-10-12T11:59:46 < drzacek> and the webUI control panel is much better than githubs
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2021-10-12T12:29:38 < jadew> I use gitolite
2021-10-12T12:29:48 < jadew> the UI is a text file
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2021-10-12T15:04:56 < ventyl_> well, you either have git-based solution and then doesn't matter much which one it is... or you are fucked up
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2021-10-12T18:00:05 < bitmask> good morning
2021-10-12T18:00:13 < bitmask> i feel like ive been dead for 2 days, how goes it
2021-10-12T18:02:24 < Steffanx> Why mr bitmask?
2021-10-12T18:03:11 < bitmask> crohns, couldnt focus on anything so i just laid in bed
2021-10-12T18:08:56 < BrainDamage> re: git, if you don't use bug tracking features, any storage will do
2021-10-12T18:09:26 < BrainDamage> I push stuff to dropbox with a stacked folder encryption
2021-10-12T18:09:42 < BrainDamage> it makes for nice collaboration too, i just share the folder
2021-10-12T18:16:36 < bitmask> i gotta get back to programming, just reading is driving me crazy
2021-10-12T18:27:36 < tct> regarding git bug tracking: I came across this the other day: https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug
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2021-10-12T18:45:17 < BrainDamage> i keep an eye on it every now & then, but it's still far from being sufficient
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2021-10-12T19:45:22 < bitmask> noice! just got a copy in the mail of c++ primer 5th edition and its in great condition for only $20
2021-10-12T19:58:11 < ventyl_> danger of printed programming books is that they may become outdated before they even ship
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2021-10-12T20:00:18 < bitmask> not exactly
2021-10-12T20:00:44 < bitmask> i guess may is a keyword but good books are always useful
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2021-10-12T20:07:30 < ventYl> well, with C++ there is a risk, that something which was true for decades will be deprecated in next release just because someone realized that printf and stream-based IO both suck
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2021-10-12T20:08:25 < bitmask> yes as long as you read modern c++ books as well then you should be ok
2021-10-12T20:09:23 < ventYl> how modern is modern enough?
2021-10-12T20:09:35 < ventYl> you have features introduced in C++11 which will be deprecated in C++20
2021-10-12T20:11:41 < bitmask> well just go in order, c++ primer goes up to c++11, then I have modern books which go up to 17 I believe, then i'll find a book on 20
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2021-10-12T21:05:51 < kakium69> hello early crew
2021-10-12T21:06:30 < ventYl> well, come
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2021-10-12T21:34:51 < kakium69> oh ventYl I didn't realise it's you. your nick has some stealth technology
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2021-10-12T21:48:55 < Steffanx> What happened with our blind french guy btw? Did you bully him kakium69 ?
2021-10-12T21:49:41 < aandrew> we had a blind french guy?
2021-10-12T21:50:20 < kakium69> french? guy?
2021-10-12T21:50:31 < kakium69> I think it was she
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2021-10-12T21:54:24 < kakium69> wasn't it like year ago or more
2021-10-12T21:55:39 < aandrew> leeloominai was scared off which sucks
2021-10-12T22:00:03 < englishman> that blind guy was pretty cool
2021-10-12T22:00:15 < englishman> Xogium ?
2021-10-12T22:00:34 < kakium69> aandrew: leeloo was she or he?
2021-10-12T22:01:30 < aandrew> she was a she
2021-10-12T22:01:37 < aandrew> she lives in my city
2021-10-12T22:02:14 < kakium69> memory check: pass
2021-10-12T22:02:21 < qyx> was shi frightened by random irc guys?
2021-10-12T22:02:26 < qyx> *she
2021-10-12T22:02:36 < qyx> englishman: yeah xogium
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2021-10-12T22:09:53 < aandrew> qyx: not really, but whenever she said anything here dongs would beat on her. I think she /ignored eventually but then others would talk to dongs she'd either be getting blowby or she'd be missing on tech bits since dongs is also pro. 
2021-10-12T22:10:06 < aandrew> either way, doesn't matter, just kind of sucks since she did know shit
2021-10-12T22:14:21 < kakium69> chats were cluttered
2021-10-12T22:21:39 < PaulFertser> aandrew: you can invite her back since dongs doesn't come here anymore
2021-10-12T22:29:15 < aandrew> she's disappeared off the face of IRC, no idea where she's at these days
2021-10-12T22:35:03 < Steffanx> I dont miss the code screenshots though :)
2021-10-12T22:35:39 < aandrew> that was kind of funny yes. I wonder if it was more to show off the colour schemes than the code
2021-10-12T22:35:52 < kakium69> I have some photos in drive
2021-10-12T22:36:02 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-12T22:37:02 < kakium69> actually I still do it
2021-10-12T22:37:22 < aandrew> I've noticed that ios15 will do OCR on text in pictures
2021-10-12T22:37:26 < kakium69> using my mobile phone camera to take a screenshot
2021-10-12T22:37:39 < aandrew> I take a picture of a box of food with ingredients listed on it and I can actually select the text in the ingredients
2021-10-12T23:02:33 < catphish> i just learned that you can charge EVs with 200A DC from public chargers!
2021-10-12T23:02:41 < catphish> that sounds kinda cool
2021-10-12T23:03:52 < kakium69> what you expected?
2021-10-12T23:04:50 < catphish> i didn't know it existed at all
2021-10-12T23:09:22 < kakium69> 200A?
2021-10-12T23:09:54 < catphish> that's what i read it can support
2021-10-12T23:15:38 < catphish> just need to work out how it works
2021-10-12T23:16:43 < englishman> yes CCS connectors are rated to 500 A i believe
2021-10-12T23:16:55 < kakium69> DC charging catphish?
2021-10-12T23:17:10 < englishman> some newer water-cooled ones may be higher, there were some pix posted in here a while ago
2021-10-12T23:18:15 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/u3I6DEv.jpg
2021-10-12T23:18:24 < catphish> englishman: i think the spec is 400A, 200A limited by current cables
2021-10-12T23:18:34 < englishman> see above $
2021-10-12T23:18:38 < englishman> ^
2021-10-12T23:18:43 < catphish> hmm maybe 500A then
2021-10-12T23:18:50 < englishman> i think that is the water cooled one
2021-10-12T23:19:09 < catphish> kakium69: yes DC charging, ie you plug your car's battery directly to a wall socket and it charges it for you
2021-10-12T23:19:17 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-12T23:19:45 < kakium69> battery connects directly to external inverter
2021-10-12T23:20:10 < englishman> the tesla connector is also 500A i believe while remaining svelte unlike a gas handle
2021-10-12T23:20:16 < catphish> this is quite an improvement on what the AC chargers in most cars can cope with
2021-10-12T23:20:27 < englishman> well they are a quite different architecture
2021-10-12T23:20:32 < catphish> kakium69: not inverter, but yes
2021-10-12T23:20:46 < englishman> and the car does not need to carry around the gigantic switchers that provide that DC
2021-10-12T23:20:47 < catphish> tesla's one is proprietary, i didn't look at that
2021-10-12T23:20:53 < englishman> so they do not need to optimize for weight
2021-10-12T23:21:07 < catphish> yeah the charger in most cars can handle 6-6kW
2021-10-12T23:21:11 < catphish> *6-7
2021-10-12T23:21:26 < englishman> a bit more these days but yeah more or less
2021-10-12T23:21:31 < catphish> which is ideal for a 32A 230V outlet at home
2021-10-12T23:21:40 < englishman> also fast charging all the time is not great for the battery
2021-10-12T23:22:06 < catphish> englishman: battery should be fine at 1C i think
2021-10-12T23:22:20 < qyx> nope
2021-10-12T23:22:34 < kakium69> 0.5?
2021-10-12T23:23:07 < qyx> it is not lead acid to charge at 0.1C but 1C is too much even for lithium
2021-10-12T23:23:27 < kakium69> it's nothing for high power flat cells
2021-10-12T23:24:17 < kakium69> I charge my RC plane batteries at max. 1C and it's concidered conservative
2021-10-12T23:24:23 < kakium69> *considered
2021-10-12T23:24:31 < catphish> i've always charged my lithium batteries at 1c
2021-10-12T23:25:13 < kakium69> round ones usually don't go anywhere near to 1C
2021-10-12T23:25:35 < catphish> though one has to consider degredation over time too, 1C is probably less than the label on the battery says :)
2021-10-12T23:26:59 < kakium69> high power round cells can do 1C without catastrophic failure
2021-10-12T23:27:10 < catphish> my car will be 60AH on paper, if i do get fast charging working, it'll rarely be used, so 50A should be okay
2021-10-12T23:27:29 < kakium69> if you have cooled battery
2021-10-12T23:27:31 < catphish> round cells? like teslas?
2021-10-12T23:27:43 < kakium69> otherwise no
2021-10-12T23:27:49 < catphish> my battery is water cooled
2021-10-12T23:28:03 < kakium69> like 18650
2021-10-12T23:28:07 < catphish> though will need to remember to turn on the pump when fast charging
2021-10-12T23:28:17 < catphish> yeah tesla uses 18650
2021-10-12T23:28:23 < catphish> i forgot the name :)
2021-10-12T23:29:03 < catphish> which is why i'm surprised they'd have inferior charging capability, but then teslas packs are huge
2021-10-12T23:29:07 < kakium69> turn on pump and monitor temperatures
2021-10-12T23:29:15 < catphish> kakium69: makes sense
2021-10-12T23:29:23 < catphish> can always alter current accordingly
2021-10-12T23:32:55 < kakium69> take thermal conductivity into account too
2021-10-12T23:34:17 < kakium69> surface can be 10K cooler than the interior - or more
2021-10-12T23:34:44 < aandrew> catphish: it sounds like you just need to buy two cargo vans, fill them up with batteries and then powr the house from one while you charge the other, then swap them out. eliminate your power bills with this one simple trick
2021-10-12T23:35:05 < kakium69> no
2021-10-12T23:35:07 < aandrew> and if you put comma.ai on both then you can automate the whole damn thing
2021-10-12T23:35:20 < kakium69> you need to charge it from your jubbs electric outlet
2021-10-12T23:35:33 < aandrew> no, I wfh
2021-10-12T23:35:34 < kakium69> then drive home and power your home with the battery inside the van
2021-10-12T23:36:54 < catphish> i finally designed something that i hope will let me talk to my batteries
2021-10-12T23:37:31 < kakium69> did you select ready made battery monitor boards?
2021-10-12T23:38:05 < kakium69> aah.. now I see why you were doing that bus thing
2021-10-12T23:38:15 < catphish> kakium69: my batteries have boards built in with ADC and bleed resistor per cell
2021-10-12T23:38:51 < catphish> so i need to talk to them, indeed the thing i've been doing
2021-10-12T23:39:01 < catphish> i'm hoping one of these will work https://imgur.com/a/tuNfTT9
2021-10-12T23:39:49 < kakium69> why not digital isolator like in teslas pack monitor boards?
2021-10-12T23:39:56 < kakium69> tesla's
2021-10-12T23:40:42 < catphish> sounds a lot more complicated
2021-10-12T23:40:46 < kakium69> not totally sure about the architecture as whole but I believe those are chained
2021-10-12T23:41:13 < catphish> some have an opto-isolator on each board, which is great
2021-10-12T23:41:42 < aandrew> looks like any RS485 chip
2021-10-12T23:41:47 < catphish> in this particular setup, they're not isolated at all, just ac-coupled, which is a little mad, but not a problem
2021-10-12T23:42:06 < qyx> catphish: been there, done that
2021-10-12T23:42:13 < qyx> no workyy
2021-10-12T23:42:15 < kakium69> are you chaining them?
2021-10-12T23:42:25 < qyx> although I tried CAN at 1 mbps
2021-10-12T23:42:44 < kakium69> what are the optos for catphish?
2021-10-12T23:43:15 < catphish> kakium69: in my setup the batteries will be chained, there's just a very short twisted pair cable between each, a differential serial interface, ac coupled
2021-10-12T23:43:40 < catphish> some setups use opto isolation between one battery and the next, but this setup does not
2021-10-12T23:44:15 < catphish> just a pair of high voltage capacitors, like this: https://i.imgur.com/CseZGiD.png
2021-10-12T23:44:20 < catphish> this works fine
2021-10-12T23:45:38 < catphish> but... in a car there are 2 power systems, 12v and high voltage, and they should be isolated, so my communication module will need the transformer since it'll be running from the 12v system
2021-10-12T23:46:01 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-12T23:46:14 < qyx> are you sure it works with 1n caps?
2021-10-12T23:46:20 < catphish> qyx: yes
2021-10-12T23:46:22 < qyx> at what bitrate?
2021-10-12T23:46:30 < kakium69> 2M
2021-10-12T23:46:41 < catphish> 4MHz (2Mbps)
2021-10-12T23:46:54 < qyx> manchester encoded?
2021-10-12T23:46:59 < catphish> yes
2021-10-12T23:47:03 < qyx> hmmm
2021-10-12T23:47:31 < catphish> nb. i didn't design any of this, TI did, and LG implemented it in this battery pack
2021-10-12T23:47:50 < catphish> what i'm designing is just a thing to stick on one end of the chain to convert it to CAN
2021-10-12T23:48:03 < kakium69> that's good
2021-10-12T23:48:19 < catphish> so i'm 100% sure it works
2021-10-12T23:48:45 < kakium69> what functions those boards have?
2021-10-12T23:48:47 < catphish> qyx: what i'm less sure about is getting that 4MHz through a transformer
2021-10-12T23:49:34 < BrainDamage> catphish: ethernet transformer pass 10MHz fine
2021-10-12T23:49:34 < catphish> kakium69: 16 x cell voltage moniroting, 16 x cell bleed load resistors, 2 x temperature probes, and various programmable error conditions that generate alerts
2021-10-12T23:49:44 < catphish> BrainDamage: good point
2021-10-12T23:50:04 < kakium69> 16S per one board?
2021-10-12T23:50:13 < catphish> kakium69: yes, they're 16S batteries
2021-10-12T23:50:19 < catphish> with a board internal to each
2021-10-12T23:50:53 < catphish> kakium69: this is the IC https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slusc51c/slusc51c.pdf?ts=1633691907593 - the batteries basically just contain the stackable reference design
2021-10-12T23:50:54 < kakium69> how is it implemented? 16S is too much for any battery monitor IC I know
2021-10-12T23:51:18 < kakium69> oh sweet 16S monitor :o
2021-10-12T23:51:22 < catphish> yeah :D
2021-10-12T23:51:38 < catphish> it's nice, apart from the fact that it's not CAN
2021-10-12T23:52:18 < catphish> i have no idea how you're supposed to connect the MCU in a real life setup
2021-10-12T23:52:45 < catphish> i guess embed it in your first battery
2021-10-12T23:52:49 < catphish> but in my case i'm reverse engineering the stacking protocol instead
2021-10-12T23:53:01 < catphish> and putting a stacking-protocol-to-can converter on one end
2021-10-12T23:53:25 < kakium69> and take it elsewhere?
2021-10-12T23:53:52 < catphish> well my converter will run from 12v and will connect straight to the vehicle's canbus
2021-10-12T23:54:28 < catphish> a BMS master elsewhere will talk to it and actually control the balancing, charging, etc
2021-10-12T23:54:46 < kakium69> intresting
2021-10-12T23:55:02 < zyp> catphish, isn't the stacking protocol already galvanically isolated in the battery? might not need to overthink it on your side then
2021-10-12T23:55:34 < catphish> zyp: it's ac coupled through a pair of high voltage capacitors
2021-10-12T23:55:44 < zyp> yes
2021-10-12T23:55:47 < catphish> does the insulator in the capacitor count as isolation?
2021-10-12T23:55:56 < kakium69> just mirror whatever is in monitor board and stick it into MCU?
2021-10-12T23:56:11 < zyp> catphish, isn't that the whole point of it?
2021-10-12T23:56:28 < catphish> kakium69: zyp: this design mirrors what's in the battery: https://i.imgur.com/dMoxtCV.png
2021-10-12T23:56:29 < zyp> what other role than isolation does the capacitor have?
2021-10-12T23:56:40 < catphish> and it'll work
2021-10-12T23:56:50 < zyp> fair enough
2021-10-12T23:56:54 < zyp> do that then :)
2021-10-12T23:57:06 < catphish> but i feel unsettled just having a tiny capacitor between my 400V system and my 12V system
2021-10-12T23:57:17 < zyp> why?
2021-10-12T23:57:37 < catphish> i've never thought a series capacitor qualifies as isolation
2021-10-12T23:57:52 < zyp> I mean, if you want another isolation barrier, use an isolated can transceiver and power supply for the translator
2021-10-12T23:58:32 < BrainDamage> it's not different from a gap in the pcb between tracess
2021-10-12T23:58:40 < catphish> sure, but then i'd have to power the MCU from the 400V battery pack :)
2021-10-12T23:58:42 < BrainDamage> and the cap actually has a voltage rating
2021-10-12T23:58:58 < zyp> no, I said isolated power supply
2021-10-12T23:58:58 < catphish> BrainDamage: yeah, that makes sense in theory
2021-10-12T23:59:06 < zyp> something like the ECE05 or whatever it was called
2021-10-12T23:59:09 < catphish> oh i see
2021-10-12T23:59:20 < catphish> yeah i could do that
2021-10-12T23:59:20 < zyp> ah, wrong one
2021-10-12T23:59:47 < catphish> isn't a transformer just as good though?
2021-10-12T23:59:55 < catphish> (feel free to say no)
2021-10-12T23:59:55 < zyp> maybe :)
--- Day changed Wed Oct 13 2021
2021-10-13T00:00:51 < zyp> transformer should be good enough, but I'm not sure the caps are any worse
2021-10-13T00:01:06 < zyp> hence isolated CAN would be a second barrier
2021-10-13T00:01:32 < catphish> that could work, but would only be meaningful with an isolated power supply too
2021-10-13T00:01:40 < catphish> things get expensive and complicated
2021-10-13T00:01:49 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-13T00:01:57 < zyp> NXJ1S is the one I meant
2021-10-13T00:02:05 < kakium69> is there any actual need?
2021-10-13T00:02:38 < catphish> i could actually buy an rj45 socket with integrated transformer, and use rj45/cat5 :)
2021-10-13T00:03:13 < zyp> this board has ECE05 for AC/DC, and then NXJ1S for isolated DC/DC: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CjtC8.png
2021-10-13T00:04:16 < BrainDamage> tangentially relatted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhsK5WExrnE
2021-10-13T00:06:02 < kakium69> catphish: any common mode chokes in the battery board?
2021-10-13T00:06:29 < zyp> catphish, board in action: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3825L.jpg
2021-10-13T00:07:02 < catphish> nice
2021-10-13T00:07:17 < catphish> you have so much cleverer distribution boards than us
2021-10-13T00:07:46 < catphish> i know one can put anything on a din rail
2021-10-13T00:08:05 < kakium69> and individual fuses and stuff
2021-10-13T00:08:10 < catphish> but one never sees anything cool on them in residential settings here
2021-10-13T00:08:22 < zyp> this was the first part of my homemade EV charging solution, board does power supply, relay outputs and power measurement
2021-10-13T00:08:24 < catphish> kakium69: i'm not sure
2021-10-13T00:08:30 < zyp> hooked up to another energy meter for reference
2021-10-13T00:08:37 < catphish> zyp: cool
2021-10-13T00:08:47 < kakium69> https://i.imgur.com/CseZGiD.png this has chokes
2021-10-13T00:08:48 < zyp> I never got around to make the second part that's actually talking to the car though
2021-10-13T00:09:07 < zyp> I made two revisions of the board, but never had either fabbed
2021-10-13T00:09:38 < catphish> just get an arduino, run a pwm with the right settings ;)
2021-10-13T00:09:45 < zyp> first: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/BKkr8.png, second: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png
2021-10-13T00:10:04 < catphish> nice
2021-10-13T00:10:27 < kakium69> catphish: https://i.imgur.com/dMoxtCV.png maybe add common mode choke to this and call it a day
2021-10-13T00:11:10 < catphish> kakium69: how does that help?
2021-10-13T00:11:26 < catphish> it's in the reference design, but i don't really understand what they do
2021-10-13T00:12:38 < kakium69> pass diff, reject common mode
2021-10-13T00:13:56 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-mode_signal
2021-10-13T00:14:26 < catphish> ah that makes sense
2021-10-13T00:22:48 < kakium69> it does not reject the DC part - but that's what those caps are for
2021-10-13T00:23:44 < kakium69> it's basically same thing for AC that those caps are for DC common mode signal
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2021-10-13T00:27:38 < catphish> yeah, rejecting ac common mode would be useful, though i feel like a transformer would do that better
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2021-10-13T00:30:13 < BrainDamage> a common modee chocke is a transformer
2021-10-13T00:30:29 < BrainDamage> it's  just not wired thee way you do it norrmally
2021-10-13T00:30:35 < catphish> lol true
2021-10-13T00:30:47 < kakium69> I just realized those ferrite things that are clamped to usb cables
2021-10-13T00:30:54 < kakium69> are common mode chokes
2021-10-13T00:31:03 < catphish> yep
2021-10-13T00:31:18 < BrainDamage> https://efficiencywins.nexperia.com/.imaging/mte/efficiencywins/text-image/dam/efficiencywins/articles/Effectively-protecting-super-speed-interfaces-against-EMI/Fig1-Common-choke-signal.jpg/jcr:content/Fig1%20Common%20choke%20signal.jpg
2021-10-13T00:31:35 < catphish> i'm trying to get my head around how that works
2021-10-13T00:31:47 < BrainDamage> see my link
2021-10-13T00:32:07 < kakium69> for diff signal coils kinda cancel each other out
2021-10-13T00:32:25 < kakium69> so no magnetic flux forms
2021-10-13T00:32:48 < kakium69> and common mode builds up flux
2021-10-13T00:32:53 < kakium69> flux requires energy
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2021-10-13T00:34:16 < catphish> i see, they wound in opposite directions, so a current in one side transfers some energy to the wire going the other way, in the opposite direction
2021-10-13T00:34:31 < catphish> for a loop this makes no difference, but for common mode, they block each other
2021-10-13T00:35:12 < catphish> also, a transformer does all this and more :)
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2021-10-13T00:35:51 < kakium69> no need for transformers
2021-10-13T00:36:04 < kakium69> texas instruments have figured it all out
2021-10-13T00:36:25 < catphish> https://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/faqs/faq_what_is_capacitive_isolation.html
2021-10-13T00:36:34 < catphish> it does seem that "capacitive isolation" is a valid thing
2021-10-13T00:36:59 < catphish> it also seems like the common mode choke is a good idea
2021-10-13T00:37:07 < catphish> so yeah
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2021-10-13T00:39:18 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation#Capacitor
2021-10-13T00:39:19 < catphish> nice
2021-10-13T00:39:35 < BrainDamage> the choke is gnerally a good idea regardless
2021-10-13T00:39:49 < BrainDamage> it's 'free' and you can slap them on cables always
2021-10-13T00:40:10 < BrainDamage> most EMI in fact couples as common mode
2021-10-13T00:40:14 < catphish> there's already one in this data path
2021-10-13T00:40:26 < kakium69> but is there?
2021-10-13T00:40:51 < catphish> even if there is, i'd like to block interference picked up along the way
2021-10-13T00:41:12 < catphish> though since it's a differential signal common mode interference should be moot
2021-10-13T00:41:36 < catphish> kakium69: i just checked, and yes: https://i.imgur.com/st1fFK4.jpg
2021-10-13T00:42:04 < catphish> each end of the board has 2 differential links, 4 capacitors and 2 chokes
2021-10-13T00:42:11 < catphish> nice layout
2021-10-13T00:42:17 < kakium69> that's very very nice board
2021-10-13T00:42:24 < catphish> yeah, i thought so
2021-10-13T00:42:43 < catphish> that's what clipped onto each battery
2021-10-13T00:43:08 < catphish> the other side has bleed resistors
2021-10-13T00:43:35 < kakium69> so symmetric and small and clutterless
2021-10-13T00:44:06 < kakium69> is there tranceivers or is it integrated?
2021-10-13T00:46:29 < kakium69> I mean front side has one chip doing the business and everything else is passives and discrete semiconductors
2021-10-13T00:46:35 < catphish> kakium69: external
2021-10-13T00:47:09 < catphish> kakium69: i couldn't remember, i didn't photograph the back, but the reference design uses external mosfets
2021-10-13T00:47:56 < kakium69> ah no tranceiver ic's?
2021-10-13T00:48:31 < catphish> kakium69: https://i.imgur.com/HEqnO34.png
2021-10-13T00:48:51 < catphish> kakium69: sorry, i totally misread your question
2021-10-13T00:49:09 < catphish> i thought you meant transistors for the bleed resistors
2021-10-13T00:49:23 < catphish> anyway, there are no external transceivers
2021-10-13T00:49:36 < catphish> just internal uart and proprietary daisychain thing
2021-10-13T00:49:37 < bitmask> hmmm does xcode not require saving anymore? 
2021-10-13T00:49:49 < bitmask> ie: auto save every 5 seconds
2021-10-13T00:49:54 < kakium69> man that's tidy design
2021-10-13T00:50:10 < catphish> kakium69: check page 112 https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slusc51c/slusc51c.pdf?ts=1633691907593
2021-10-13T00:50:20 < kakium69> really bringing that cost down
2021-10-13T00:50:44 < catphish> yeah its neat"
2021-10-13T00:50:44 < catphish> !
2021-10-13T00:52:31 < catphish> looks like my initial design should be good then, maybe with a choke thrown in
2021-10-13T00:52:45 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-13T00:53:13 < catphish> this is assuming the rs485 driver is strong enough
2021-10-13T00:53:16 < catphish> i think it will be
2021-10-13T00:57:11 < karlp> catphish: you need to be realllly careful reading datasheets for caps you're intending to use for series isolation like that...
2021-10-13T00:59:57 < kakium69> datasheet seems to tell even what parts to use
2021-10-13T01:00:13 < karlp> yeah, 15 years ago when the datasheet came out
2021-10-13T01:00:35 < kakium69> 6years
2021-10-13T01:04:35 < kakium69> oh wow TVS diode mentioned in the datasheet is out of stock
2021-10-13T01:04:39 < kakium69> a diode
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2021-10-13T01:05:51 < kakium69> luckily this datasheet even mentions what parameters are especially important
2021-10-13T01:06:55 < kakium69> The NXP PESD5V0U1UA is used on the reference design, which has a maximum Cd of
2021-10-13T01:06:56 < kakium69> 2.6 pF
2021-10-13T01:08:18 < catphish> ah interesting
2021-10-13T01:09:19 < kakium69> or them basically saying below this you all good
2021-10-13T01:09:39 < kakium69> "For dual common-mode filter applications, the TDK 100-μH, 5.8-kΩ choke (part number ACT45B-101-2P-TL003)
2021-10-13T01:09:40 < kakium69> and Wurth 470-μH, 2.2-kΩ (part number 744242471) are recommended. The total capacitance is approximately
2021-10-13T01:09:40 < kakium69> 40 pF."
2021-10-13T01:10:00 < kakium69> of wait this is dual for extra noisy
2021-10-13T01:10:24 < catphish> yeah i'm not going dual
2021-10-13T01:10:39 < kakium69> "For single common-mode filter applications, the TDK 51-μH, 2.8-kΩ choke (part number ACT45B-510-2P-TL003)
2021-10-13T01:10:39 < kakium69> is recommended. This device has an input capacitance of approximately 18 pF"
2021-10-13T01:11:10 < catphish> oh nice, i can just buy those :)
2021-10-13T01:11:17 < kakium69> maybe
2021-10-13T01:11:30 < catphish> https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/tdk-corporation/ACT45B-510-2P-TL003/1950642
2021-10-13T01:11:49 < catphish> i can buy nearly 17,000 of them at least
2021-10-13T01:14:17 < catphish> once i've confirmed the whole setup works on a breadboard with the rs485 driver, i'll build it using the recommended parts
2021-10-13T01:22:37 < catphish> nice https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/389/dm00755027-2042068.pdf
2021-10-13T01:24:11 < karlp> yeah, usb3 brought in some tasty stuff for low cap esd protection :)
2021-10-13T01:25:05 < kakium69> 0201
2021-10-13T01:25:14 < catphish> yeah neat eh :)
2021-10-13T01:26:29 < kakium69> planning to use that?
2021-10-13T01:30:12 < catphish> no probably not, too small!
2021-10-13T01:30:14 < qyx> are you going to use 0201s on a breadboard?
2021-10-13T01:30:19 < qyx> oh wait, that may actually work
2021-10-13T01:30:30 < qyx> you can stuff a few into a single hole
2021-10-13T01:30:32 < catphish> also, i need to better understand the specs
2021-10-13T01:30:56 < catphish> zeners are simple, but tvs diodes seem to have multiple voltage ratings
2021-10-13T01:31:36 < catphish> i thought i just needed a simple 5v zener, but i need to learn more :)
2021-10-13T01:33:30 < catphish> i'm prototyping on a breadboard first anyway with randomly selected parts, hopefully that'll work, 4mhz isn't crazy fast
2021-10-13T01:36:58 < catphish> the critical thing is whether the rs485 transceiver actually works
2021-10-13T01:40:44 < zyp> TVS diodes have different characteristics from zeners
2021-10-13T01:41:08 < catphish> yes indeed
2021-10-13T01:41:38 < catphish> i ordered a simple zener for testing, but should look at using a tvs per the recommendation of the datasheet instead
2021-10-13T01:41:57 < catphish> but unless i can buy the one they recommend i'll need to understand the specs
2021-10-13T01:42:11 < karlp> it's only protection anyway.... it's not necessary if everythings behaving well....
2021-10-13T01:42:42 < zyp> IIRC some have a foldback voltage curve, i.e. once they're past the breakdown voltage, the voltage drop lowers again to reduce dissipated power
2021-10-13T01:43:17 < catphish> karlp: no, it's not just protection, it actually does something important too
2021-10-13T01:43:34 < karlp> not if it's a tvs....
2021-10-13T01:43:37 < karlp> or it shouldn't be...
2021-10-13T01:44:07 < catphish> well, the problem is this: the transmitter idles at +5v
2021-10-13T01:44:55 < zyp> can't you bias it to 2.5V?
2021-10-13T01:46:08 < catphish> so when the first negative transition occurs, the receiver sees a spike of -10v
2021-10-13T01:46:30 < karlp> oh, that sounds awesome :)
2021-10-13T01:46:38 < zyp> hmm, I might misremember that foldback thing, I'm not finding anything on google to support what I thought I remembered :p
2021-10-13T01:48:27 < catphish> clamping that -10v differential to the -0v and 5v limits immediately sets up the correct bias
2021-10-13T01:49:04 < catphish> do -10v becomes -5v (ie the + line at 0v and the - line at 5v)
2021-10-13T01:49:22 < catphish> and the next rising edge is also where it should be, +5v
2021-10-13T01:49:36 < catphish> i hope that makes some sense...
2021-10-13T01:49:59 < zyp> yeah, but why do you not just bias your side to +5V as well then? just pull one line up and the other down
2021-10-13T01:50:22 < catphish> zyp: i considered that, and it's not an absurd recommendation
2021-10-13T01:50:30 < catphish> but its also not what TI suggest :)
2021-10-13T01:51:59 < catphish> the rs485 can actually cope with common mode between 12v and -7.5v
2021-10-13T01:55:34 < catphish> so a -10v difference (+5/-5) won't damage it, but it needs to be immediately re-biased so that the next positive edge ends on a positive differential
2021-10-13T01:56:15 < catphish> weak biasing to +5v really doesn't seem like a terrible idea at all
2021-10-13T01:59:03 < catphish> curse you people and your excellent assistance
2021-10-13T02:04:38 < catphish> this should be all good https://i.imgur.com/skA3ESm.png
2021-10-13T02:04:46 < catphish> once i choose a tvs anyway
2021-10-13T02:08:08 < qyx> my eyeballs
2021-10-13T02:08:13 < qyx> gnd upside down
2021-10-13T02:08:14 < catphish> i mean https://i.imgur.com/G237cqx.png
2021-10-13T02:08:28 < catphish> yeah gnd upside down bit me too
2021-10-13T02:08:32 < catphish> see modification
2021-10-13T02:09:32 < qyx> arent't your tvs redundant?
2021-10-13T02:09:50 < catphish> redundant how?
2021-10-13T02:09:57 < qyx> with such limited energy on the input (1n + 10R) internal limiting should suffice
2021-10-13T02:10:08 < qyx> or not?
2021-10-13T02:10:23 < qyx> also, many transceivers can work with a couple of tens of volts common mode
2021-10-13T02:10:31 < catphish> well, i'm really not sure
2021-10-13T02:10:39 < catphish> these allow +12 to -7.5
2021-10-13T02:10:42 < catphish> so not great
2021-10-13T02:11:08 < catphish> also, this may or may not work quite correctly, because my transmitter definitely isn't 5v, it's rs485 running at 3v3
2021-10-13T02:11:42 < catphish> but that shouldn't matter, as long as the 100k resistors re-bias things before the next received bit
2021-10-13T02:12:04 < catphish> i suspect the tvs *are* redundant
2021-10-13T02:12:12 < qyx> hm, what about termination?
2021-10-13T02:13:08 < catphish> unspecified
2021-10-13T02:14:02 < catphish> i can only guess
2021-10-13T02:14:25 < qyx> I mean, didn't you forget termination resistorS?
2021-10-13T02:14:40 < catphish> i wouldn't know what they should be
2021-10-13T02:15:36 < catphish> i can add a couple of hundred ohms and hope for the best
2021-10-13T02:16:10 < catphish> but there are none at the other end
2021-10-13T02:20:43 < catphish> i see no info about esd protection in the rs485 transceiver datasheet, but it's clearly designed to be connected directly to a noisy line, so i'd hope it has some integral protection
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2021-10-13T02:22:55 < catphish> well, anyway, parts will be here later in the week, i'll see what my scope says about the results, i still feel like the tvs or zener is a good idea, particularly where the remote end has the potentially to suddenly rise by hundreds of volts
2021-10-13T02:35:16 < catphish> very hacky initial test setup :) https://i.imgur.com/hbkIok5.jpg
2021-10-13T02:39:25 < catphish> friday i will test with proper biasing, rs485 transceiver, and rp2040 decode
2021-10-13T02:41:04 < catphish> i was going to look at the rp2040 pio code tonight, but i need to sleep now :)
2021-10-13T02:41:06 < catphish> thanks!
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2021-10-13T09:59:59 < Steffanx> Oh Xogium left after an encounter with R2COM -_- makes sense now 
2021-10-13T10:03:52 < amstan> Steffanx: lol, what?
2021-10-13T10:03:55 < amstan> who's r2com?
2021-10-13T10:04:00 < amstan> is he like flyback ?
2021-10-13T10:04:20 < Steffanx> Worse.
2021-10-13T10:04:22 < sauce> more functional and less personable
2021-10-13T10:04:36 < amstan> flyback: btw, you'll never guess where i spent this summer
2021-10-13T10:05:08 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 80 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 80 normal]
2021-10-13T10:05:22 < jpa-> for a moment i was actually worried there was a flyback in here
2021-10-13T10:05:45 < Steffanx> In my experience flyback just talks (or used to) shit. R2COM actually means it.
2021-10-13T10:06:09 < Steffanx> But jpa-  bullied him away :o
2021-10-13T10:06:15 < amstan> Steffanx: flyback's a cool guy actually, heh
2021-10-13T10:06:21 < Steffanx> Him = Mr. COM
2021-10-13T10:07:02 < jpa-> i still feel a bit bad for that :|
2021-10-13T10:07:35 < Steffanx> Lol that's a good joke jpa- 😁
2021-10-13T10:07:57 < amstan> let me see if i can get xogium back
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2021-10-13T10:10:49 < amstan> apparently someone hates linux here
2021-10-13T10:15:14 < sauce> perish the thought
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2021-10-13T10:16:18 < ventYl> i was wondering where Xogium is
2021-10-13T10:17:17 < amstan> he's quite sad about the situation
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2021-10-13T11:32:16 < ventYl> well, the situation has left the building
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2021-10-13T12:09:21 < Steffann> amstan it was R2COM. Havent seen that guy for months either ;)
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2021-10-13T12:14:51 < BrainDamage> r2com ran out of people to troll, so he trolled himself
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2021-10-13T12:48:34 < sauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZDiOzoq2Uc musicspam
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2021-10-13T13:43:55 < karlp> aretoocommie wsa the first person I actually ignored on irc, ever...
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2021-10-13T14:57:24 < tct> PaulFertser, ping
2021-10-13T14:58:00 < tct> I could use our OpenOCD-Hero services :D
2021-10-13T14:59:06 < tct> I am migrating some firmware from Makefiles to CMake. I get an *.ELF which runs on the discovery kit. Now I started migrating the actual firmware itself. I started with the linker script. Still getting a binary out but when trying to fire up OpenOCD I get this:
2021-10-13T14:59:08 < tct> Assertion failed: (run_size > 0), function flash_write_unlock_verify, file src/flash/nor/core.c, line 853.
2021-10-13T14:59:46 < ventYl> are you using same toolchain?
2021-10-13T15:00:02 < tct> well, before I used arm-none-eabi-gcc and now I use gcc-arm-embedded
2021-10-13T15:00:10 < tct> which I believe is mainly just different vendor/packaging
2021-10-13T15:00:10 < ventYl> let both build systems generate map files and compare them block by block
2021-10-13T15:00:27 < ventYl> yeah, my question was more like greenhills vs. gcc
2021-10-13T15:00:33 < tct> nah, is gcc both times.
2021-10-13T15:00:40 < ventYl> those generate map files in different format
2021-10-13T15:01:02 < ventYl> you can compare map files between stages of migration and see what is different
2021-10-13T15:02:18 < tct> indeed
2021-10-13T15:02:59 < ventYl> i did that once, map file was a great help. it will help you reveal missing symbols and stuff way ahead of application starting complaining about them missing
2021-10-13T15:03:16 < tct> so do you just diff the two or is there special tooling available?
2021-10-13T15:04:15 < ventYl> i processed them, depending on what detail I've been interested in. so, first I extracted information on compile modules present during linking. grep, sed and awk are your friends here. way quicker than any premade tool
2021-10-13T15:04:28 < ventYl> then you diff both extracts of map files and you have your information
2021-10-13T15:05:42 < ventYl> start at large scale objects, make sure all your compile units are there, optionally, if your linker script if fucked up a lot, make sure they are linked in the very same order (for me it did matter), then extract symbols, make sure all of them are present (sometimes defines and/or optimizations make some of them disappear)
2021-10-13T15:06:12 < ventYl> then as the very last step check that same symbol compiles to object of same size with same compiler switches. this may be optional for you if gcc version is different between toolchains
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2021-10-13T15:07:43 < jpa-> tct: arm-none-eabi-objdump -h foo.elf    both files and diff that
2021-10-13T15:07:56 < jpa-> less stuff to read than a full map file
2021-10-13T15:08:17 < tct> okay, thanks vently & thanks jpa- !
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2021-10-13T16:41:08 < tct> ventYl, what's up with the upper-case Y?
2021-10-13T16:46:13 < ventYl> tct: tbh dunno :) i am used to write it like that for almost two decades
2021-10-13T16:46:20 < ventYl> but I already forgot, why
2021-10-13T16:46:41 < tct> I could swear I have only seen your name with a lower case Y in here (at least the last few weeks/months)
2021-10-13T16:46:47 < ventYl> one reason might be, that this word is written as ventil in slovak language
2021-10-13T16:47:04 < tct> what does it mean?
2021-10-13T16:47:09 < ventYl> valve
2021-10-13T16:47:17 < tct> very german.
2021-10-13T16:47:43 < ventYl> Kaltlaufregler
2021-10-13T16:48:50 < ventYl> these days I connect from $200 laptop, which tends to have very poor wifi at this particular place in house. i get disconnected a lot and it resets back to default, which is derived from login name, which is all lowercase
2021-10-13T16:52:57 < tct> thank you for all these explanations
2021-10-13T16:53:00 < tct> I feel more complete now
2021-10-13T16:53:02 < tct> :)
2021-10-13T16:54:00 < ventYl> i gave the same feeling to boiler technician by explaining that you can convert pretty much any physical problem into an electrical circuit and solve it using Kichhoff's laws
2021-10-13T16:54:45 < tct> that doesn't seem far fetched. yet I am intrigued by the details themselves. how universal would this be?
2021-10-13T16:54:53 < ventYl> completely
2021-10-13T16:55:09 < ventYl> you just have to adapt domain you have to domain of electrical current
2021-10-13T16:55:39 < ventYl> a few years ago, i've seen university class slides where in list slide there was mapping table
2021-10-13T16:55:48 < ventYl> unfortunately I didn't save it and I can't find it anymore
2021-10-13T16:56:22 < ventYl> ofc, you'll be calculating ridiculously complicated circuit, so you either have to calculate subcircuits or fall into land of numeric methods
2021-10-13T16:56:31 < ventYl> latter is what FEM solvers do
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2021-10-13T16:58:49 < ventYl> take hydraulics as an example, it maps 1:1, flow ~ current, pressure ~ voltage, hydraulic resistance ~ electric resistance
2021-10-13T16:59:17 < tct> oh yeah, I am mainly interested in the " pretty much any physical problem" part. i.e. the extend
2021-10-13T16:59:22 < tct> which according to you is "completely" 
2021-10-13T16:59:38 < tct> so I'm trying to think of an example which would intuitively seem not to fall into that category
2021-10-13T17:00:27 < ventYl> in domain of mechanics it would be less intuitive
2021-10-13T17:00:30 < tct> thermodynamics, electromagnetism, kinematics, statics, ... those seem to be very doable/easy
2021-10-13T17:01:26 < ventYl> fluid dynamics is effectively just extended hydraulics
2021-10-13T17:01:32 < BrainDamage> anything that's not linear or a lumped element won't work well with circccuit equivalent
2021-10-13T17:01:51 < tct> wtf is "a lumped element" ?
2021-10-13T17:02:16 < ventYl> i assume something consisting of two or more parts with non-zero degrees of freedom
2021-10-13T17:02:31 < ventYl> hm, zero degrees of freedom
2021-10-13T17:02:50 < BrainDamage> take a resistor, its resistance is over a finite size, but for the sake of simpliccity you pretend all its charactristic are on a point
2021-10-13T17:03:41 < BrainDamage> so changing size doesn't change its value for example
2021-10-13T17:04:08 < BrainDamage> which is not true for real resistor, a longer resistor has more resistance
2021-10-13T17:04:30 < ventYl> well, suitability of circuit approach depends on what exactly are you trying to figure out
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2021-10-13T17:05:38 < tct> well, I asked about how universal it would be and your answer was "completely" :D
2021-10-13T17:05:38 < BrainDamage> it's not even true for a wire, but it has to be long enough compared to the wavelength of the wave
2021-10-13T17:06:09 < BrainDamage> 50% of the times, it works everytime
2021-10-13T17:06:30 < ventYl> tct: completely was meant in term of possible domains. you can map problem from any domain to electrical circuit as long as it provides results of sufficient granularity
2021-10-13T17:08:47 < ventYl> even in domain of electric circuits Kirchhoff's laws may be insufficient for stuff such as transient states
2021-10-13T17:10:05 < BrainDamage> the key thing is that you can only model a network of linear components
2021-10-13T17:11:02 < BrainDamage> anything else gets the FEM
2021-10-13T17:11:33 < BrainDamage> aka make the component count stupidly large, ideally infinite
2021-10-13T17:11:43 < ventYl> that would be IEM
2021-10-13T17:13:01 < ventYl> real FEM solvers don't use extremely large number of components, it slows the computation down considerably and usually gets only minor improvement of results
2021-10-13T17:13:21 < ventYl> with extreme >> 10k elements
2021-10-13T17:14:00 < BrainDamage> the two are equivalent
2021-10-13T17:14:33 < BrainDamage> also, real fem use non uniform mesh size and adaptive steps
2021-10-13T17:15:07 < BrainDamage> but you can always remap things to an equivalent linear one, just with slower convergence
2021-10-13T17:15:28 < ventYl> i know, i had to deal with nastran
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2021-10-13T17:20:38 < Steffanx> tct what happened to the vogels 
2021-10-13T17:20:47 < Steffanx> Vowels.. in your nick
2021-10-13T17:22:56 < tct> time happened
2021-10-13T17:23:02 < tct> I'm getting too old
2021-10-13T17:23:07 < tct> I feel like 68
2021-10-13T17:23:28 < tct> there wasn't a single day the last 3 years where I wasn't working q_q
2021-10-13T17:23:40 < tct> "luckily" I'm forced to go to dutchland this weekend.
2021-10-13T17:23:54 < tct> implicitly forced, of course. 
2021-10-13T17:28:07 < PaulFertser> Hope your work gave you enough money to retire already?
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2021-10-13T17:29:58 < ventYl> lets boot one last ancient computer
2021-10-13T17:30:19 < ventYl> hopefully it will contain remains of old sources I need now
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2021-10-13T17:31:42 < tct> hopefully it contains some STM32 that you can sell
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2021-10-13T17:36:45 < Steffanx> Dutchland is great. You know this, tct 
2021-10-13T17:36:56 < Steffanx> Dont forget to some Kanjers
2021-10-13T17:37:05 < tct> sure, and lets support ISIS too
2021-10-13T17:37:09 < tct> dutchland ^
2021-10-13T17:37:27 < Steffanx> Wut?
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2021-10-13T18:47:42 < englishman> Steffanx: the Dutch guy yesterday didn’t know what kanjers were
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2021-10-13T19:14:07 < qyx> apparently he was from Amsterdam
2021-10-13T19:34:26 < jadew> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804210713982926894/897721997038059560/x__antisocial_butterfly__x_1633645067366582.png
2021-10-13T19:45:10 < englishman> going to attend a seminar given by a competitior
2021-10-13T19:45:17 < englishman> signing up with real name and company
2021-10-13T19:45:43 < jadew> they'll call you in the day after
2021-10-13T19:46:12 < jadew> "oh, must have been a mistake"
2021-10-13T19:52:19 < Steffanx> You should send him some englishman 
2021-10-13T19:52:29 < englishman> haha
2021-10-13T19:52:38 < englishman> id have to order them from waffel.express first
2021-10-13T19:53:07 < Steffanx> stroop@waffle.express didnt do much business lately 
2021-10-13T19:58:10 < jadew> englishman, you should take your product with you at the seminar
2021-10-13T19:58:26 < jadew> show it to the other attendees
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2021-10-13T20:07:05 < englishman> industry lingo for directed-energy weapons: "distance welding"
2021-10-13T20:08:13 < ventYl> :>
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2021-10-13T20:36:40 < karlp> lol
2021-10-13T20:38:29 < ventYl> i am confused by my own source code
2021-10-13T20:38:43 < ventYl> I apparently have the newest version, but it lacks one file, which definitely was there
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2021-10-13T20:57:23 < qyx> Steffanx: oh noes covid countermeasures? did you ask for subsidy?
2021-10-13T20:57:47 < Steffanx> Lack of customers. 
2021-10-13T20:58:38 < qyx> probably all eat ivermectin instead
2021-10-13T20:58:58 < Steffanx> They all realized stroopwafels give you instant diabetus and obesity 
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2021-10-13T21:10:12 < kakium69> hello early
2021-10-13T21:14:34 < Steffanx> Gooday sir kakium69 
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2021-10-13T21:39:57 < ventYl> godday mr
2021-10-13T21:40:28 < Steffanx> Sir.
2021-10-13T21:41:16 < ventYl> hello sir. dis is Microsoft sapport. your computer miiiiight be infected.
2021-10-13T21:41:50 < Steffanx> I had the honour to call with the ms helpdesk a while back. Was awful
2021-10-13T21:42:28 < kakium69> actual ms?
2021-10-13T21:42:48 < Steffanx> Available: 24/7. After getting through the jungle of phone menu shit you they'll redirect you. ... "We are now closed"
2021-10-13T21:42:57 < Steffanx> Yeah. Actual microsoft 
2021-10-13T21:43:11 < Steffanx> -you
2021-10-13T21:43:36 < kakium69> imagine them visiting
2021-10-13T21:44:16 < BrainDamage> i had a fantastic experience with discord help desk
2021-10-13T21:44:47 < BrainDamage> they locked my account without reason or request from me, but to unlock I had to use the associated email
2021-10-13T21:44:57 < BrainDamage> but I've long lost the access to that email
2021-10-13T21:45:08 < BrainDamage> I even had 2FA auth setup
2021-10-13T21:45:40 < BrainDamage> I explained the problem, and I got told twice how to reset my pw
2021-10-13T21:45:50 < BrainDamage> it was starting to get embarassing
2021-10-13T21:46:11 < BrainDamage> the third time they finally understood and said they cannot unlock
2021-10-13T21:47:05 < BrainDamage> ticket left often with no reply
2021-10-13T21:47:14 < BrainDamage> 10/10, would engage again
2021-10-13T21:48:09 < BrainDamage> ( i replied, saying I had strong crypto proof of ownership, chat logs, whatever, but fell to deaf ears )
2021-10-13T21:50:04 < bitmask> ohh man, setting implicit conversions is fun :)
2021-10-13T21:55:58 < kakium69> how is projects bitmask?
2021-10-13T21:56:07 < bitmask> slow but fun
2021-10-13T21:56:11 < bitmask> and yourself?
2021-10-13T21:56:18 < kakium69> no progress
2021-10-13T21:56:33 < kakium69> I don't even know if I have any projects
2021-10-13T21:56:40 < bitmask> start new ones
2021-10-13T21:56:47 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-13T21:56:52 < bitmask> i have like 5 things i wanna work on but just sticking to one for now
2021-10-13T22:15:48 < jadew> if I assemble the PCBs in China and I do programming + some light soldering in Romania
2021-10-13T22:15:54 < jadew> can I still say Made in Romania?
2021-10-13T22:17:16 < kakium69> made in chimania
2021-10-13T22:17:46 < kakium69> norway seems to have happenings @ now
2021-10-13T22:17:55 < jadew> what happenings?
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2021-10-13T22:18:44 < kakium69> attack - multiple ded
2021-10-13T22:19:18 < jadew> link?
2021-10-13T22:20:30 < jadew> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/13/several-killed-bow-and-arrow-attack-norway
2021-10-13T22:21:46 < jadew> no information regarding this motivation
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2021-10-13T23:16:46 < emeb> WTF Norway? Mass archery murder?
2021-10-13T23:17:11 < emeb> If archery is outlawed, only outlaws will have bows & arrows.
2021-10-13T23:19:50 < qyx> we have some
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2021-10-13T23:37:44 < catphish> realised today i need to make a throttle-speed-torque map for each EV, this is not trivial as i had assumed
2021-10-13T23:39:29 < kakium69> just make throttle-torque some negative expo and add deadband and call it a day
2021-10-13T23:40:40 < kakium69> welcome back catphish
2021-10-13T23:40:47 < catphish> kakium69: i could just make it linear 0-100% forward and 0-50% in reverse, but there's a problem... regen
2021-10-13T23:41:03 < catphish> at 0% throttle you want some torque inverse to the motor speed
2021-10-13T23:41:33 < kakium69> okay
2021-10-13T23:41:47 < catphish> so one needs a 2d map, though i think it can be quite simple
2021-10-13T23:41:57 < catphish> and thank you, i am indeed back
2021-10-13T23:42:05 < kakium69> just add ramp up time and set negative torque or multiple options of negative torque?
2021-10-13T23:42:18 < catphish> spent the day getting an EV engine up and running :)
2021-10-13T23:42:24 < catphish> but now it needs some programming
2021-10-13T23:42:50 < kakium69> did you success with "hello world" for your motor?
2021-10-13T23:43:00 < kakium69> make it spin?
2021-10-13T23:43:05 < catphish> yes
2021-10-13T23:43:43 < catphish> it spins forwards and backwards with torque proportional to throttle, it precharges the inverter capacitor bank to an appropriate voltage
2021-10-13T23:44:01 < catphish> but plenty more to do :)
2021-10-13T23:44:04 < catphish> how was your day sir?
2021-10-13T23:44:53 < kakium69> doin shit
2021-10-13T23:45:15 < kakium69> in literal sense I was hauling cow poops
2021-10-13T23:46:29 < kakium69> had to throw dual wheels on
2021-10-13T23:46:57 < kakium69> field is flooded and soft
2021-10-13T23:48:19 < catphish> exciting
2021-10-13T23:50:57 < Steffanx> Youre using the open sores inverter board catphish ?
2021-10-13T23:52:28 < kakium69> yes it was exciting until I "threw" those dual wheels on. now I can pull the trailer even if it dives to mud and it's wheels stop turning
2021-10-13T23:52:40 < catphish> Steffanx: i have 2 projects, one it using an open source inverter board in a tesla engine, the other is using an open source board simply to instruct an OWM inverter
2021-10-13T23:53:51 < kakium69> what is the current motor option for your car catphish?
2021-10-13T23:54:07 < kakium69> did you upgrade from leaf motor to tesla drivetrain?
2021-10-13T23:55:47 < catphish> kakium69: yes
2021-10-13T23:55:53 < catphish> tesla small drive unit
2021-10-13T23:56:09 < kakium69> front unit?
2021-10-13T23:56:12 < catphish> yes
2021-10-13T23:56:30 < Steffanx> Two EV projects you mean, catphish ?
2021-10-13T23:56:53 < catphish> Steffanx: yes, the other car i'm working on (not mine) is using a gs450h hybrid gearbox
2021-10-13T23:56:54 < kakium69> catphish: there is one thing that makes it not so much fun
2021-10-13T23:57:16 < catphish> kakium69: what's that?
2021-10-13T23:57:20 < kakium69> it doesn't have locking diff
2021-10-13T23:57:35 < catphish> kakium69: lol true
2021-10-13T23:57:46 < catphish> all diffs are lockable if you can weld
2021-10-13T23:57:54 < kakium69> indeed
2021-10-13T23:58:23 < kakium69> but then you must choose if you want to turn always drifting or never drifting
2021-10-13T23:59:07 < catphish> lol quite
2021-10-13T23:59:15 < ventYl> you can always implement EDS if you want
2021-10-13T23:59:27 < catphish> and no, i'm not worried about that, i just want it to perform at least as well as the original car
2021-10-13T23:59:47 < catphish> i don't think losing rear traction will be hard with a tesla motor's torque anyway
2021-10-13T23:59:58 < ventYl> how much torque can it make?
--- Day changed Thu Oct 14 2021
2021-10-14T00:00:03 < catphish> all of it
2021-10-14T00:00:24 < ventYl> ok, I assume the original car was also FWD
2021-10-14T00:00:26 < catphish> that number is meaningless without knowing the gearing though
2021-10-14T00:00:35 < catphish> ventYl: it's all rwd
2021-10-14T00:00:51 < catphish> ventYl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Speedster
2021-10-14T00:01:16 < kakium69> interesting
2021-10-14T00:01:39 < ventYl> ummm
2021-10-14T00:01:50 < catphish> tesla small drive unit torque is 330Nm (243ftlb)
2021-10-14T00:02:00 < ventYl> that may be too much for front wheel drive
2021-10-14T00:02:29 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Speedster
2021-10-14T00:02:34 < catphish> oops
2021-10-14T00:02:38 < catphish> Single speed, 9.34:1, open differential
2021-10-14T00:03:40 < kakium69> ventYl: that car is lotus elise in opel wrapping
2021-10-14T00:03:59 < kakium69> rear wheel drive
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2021-10-14T00:04:15 < ventYl> hm ok, so even electric conversion will be RWD, then no problem
2021-10-14T00:04:27 < catphish> mines in "vauxhall" wrapping, because uk :)
2021-10-14T00:04:35 < catphish> ventYl: yes, will be rwd too
2021-10-14T00:04:57 < catphish> mid engine will become rear engine, and batteries will be in the middle
2021-10-14T00:05:25 < kakium69> the perfect balance
2021-10-14T00:05:43 < catphish> well it'll be rear heavy i suspect
2021-10-14T00:05:51 < catphish> but it'll code
2021-10-14T00:05:51 < ventYl> i would rebuild some ancient '90s car to EV if it was remotely legal where I live
2021-10-14T00:05:52 < catphish> *cope
2021-10-14T00:05:59 < kakium69> code it away
2021-10-14T00:06:20 < catphish> uk is very lenient on car modification and self build
2021-10-14T00:06:46 < kakium69> funland is better now too
2021-10-14T00:07:00 < catphish> self build requires an inspection, but with modification, almost anything goes, as long as it can still pass the annual inspection
2021-10-14T00:07:37 < kakium69> you can electrify newer than 1993 car now if you use parts from other EVs that have been certified for EMI shiets
2021-10-14T00:07:43 < ventYl> here self build is impossible, because there are no rules for inspection of such vehicle. and modifications are fined 2k eur :)
2021-10-14T00:08:18 < catphish> ventYl: wow that's shit
2021-10-14T00:08:29 < ventYl> even one small series car builder was exporting their cars for certification to nearby country and then importing them back once they were street-legal
2021-10-14T00:08:40 < kakium69> ventYl: USA?
2021-10-14T00:08:45 < catphish> ventYl: that's crazy, sorry to hear it
2021-10-14T00:08:53 < ventYl> kakium69: central europe
2021-10-14T00:09:36 < kakium69> TÜV?
2021-10-14T00:09:55 < ventYl> '90s cars from before CAN era would be stupid simple to rebuilt to EV while retaining all the functionality, because all the electronics pretty much doesn't give a damn about the rest of the car
2021-10-14T00:10:04 < catphish> i refuse to believe central europe is a real place, europe just tails off into russiachineland
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2021-10-14T00:10:17 < kakium69> certainly germany
2021-10-14T00:10:36 < ventYl> nope, slovakia here
2021-10-14T00:11:36 < kakium69> do you have TÜV there?
2021-10-14T00:12:00 < ventYl> only as one of providers of annual inspection service
2021-10-14T00:12:06 < ventYl> but they don't play any special role here
2021-10-14T00:27:53 < qyx> you can still build a EV john deere
2021-10-14T00:28:35 < kakium69> maybe small one for front loader applications
2021-10-14T00:28:52 < kakium69> for actual work you need power plant not power storage
2021-10-14T00:29:52 < qyx> I will work only one hour a day
2021-10-14T00:30:24 < kakium69> catphish: are you working with c55 - he had gs450h gearbox in his garage floor?
2021-10-14T00:30:45 < kakium69> waiting to become a project some day
2021-10-14T00:30:55 < catphish> kakium69: i am not
2021-10-14T00:31:08 < kakium69> what is cost of that gearbox?
2021-10-14T00:31:16 < catphish> no idea, sorry
2021-10-14T00:31:52 < catphish> that car isn't my project, i'm just doing the software
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2021-10-14T02:08:21 < catphish> you want buffer overflows? because this is how you get buffer overflows: https://github.com/damienmaguire/Lexus-GS450H-Inverter-Controller/blob/master/Software/gs450h_v7.ino#L341
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2021-10-14T02:18:04 < bitmask> what is allowed in an aggregate class? I thought overloading an operator would make it something else but still seems to be aggregate
2021-10-14T02:33:05 < Mangy_Dog> This monstrosity is now starting to take shape.... Ignore the silk screens theyre a total mess... Still need to organise some components but its starting to work... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337706779708489728/897989360476110878/unknown.png
2021-10-14T02:34:43 < catphish> oo much layered?
2021-10-14T02:34:56 < Mangy_Dog> just 
2021-10-14T02:34:56 < Mangy_Dog> 2
2021-10-14T02:35:31 < catphish> you seem to have pins through the board without drills (far right)
2021-10-14T02:35:48 < Mangy_Dog> its basically the new tricorder, but im redesigining the pcbs to make it easier to build and quicker to make, 
2021-10-14T02:35:54 < catphish> ah cool
2021-10-14T02:36:26 < Mangy_Dog> ive been having issues with the current design... and the only way to fix it when it goes wrong is to crack open the chassis... (liturally)
2021-10-14T02:36:30 < Mangy_Dog> to rewire
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2021-10-14T02:36:43 < catphish> well that looks neat
2021-10-14T02:36:57 < Mangy_Dog> the new design, apart from the stuff thats sealed in the door... I can now disasemble the main body properly... so i can pull the circuits out to fix without causing damage.
2021-10-14T02:37:03 < catphish> apart from the header pins rammed throgh undrilled board :)
2021-10-14T02:37:15 < Mangy_Dog> but more importantly... assemble it alot more easily
2021-10-14T02:37:42 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2021-10-14T02:37:44 < Mangy_Dog> thats rgb leds
2021-10-14T02:37:53 < Mangy_Dog> but the actual led has the blue pin chopped off
2021-10-14T02:38:01 < Mangy_Dog> so its a RG :D
2021-10-14T02:38:04 < catphish> oh ok :)
2021-10-14T02:40:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620760510983569429/897992083133063208/unknown.png
2021-10-14T02:40:21 < Mangy_Dog> slightly older version of the PCB before i shifted the busser around a bit....
2021-10-14T02:40:27 < Mangy_Dog> in cad
2021-10-14T02:40:43 < Mangy_Dog> to give an idea how tight this all is :D
2021-10-14T02:49:08 < catphish> oh yeah, neat
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2021-10-14T05:01:44 < jadew> pro tip: never make email addresses on domain names you don't intend to keep forever
2021-10-14T05:03:04 < jadew> pro tip 2: try to limit the number of email addresses to less than 3
2021-10-14T05:05:20 < catphish> i need to make myself a permanent, grown up, email address
2021-10-14T05:05:51 < catphish> i have my email address i made when i was 12, and one from an old employer, not ideal
2021-10-14T05:07:01 < jadew> I have a grown up one too
2021-10-14T05:07:08 < jadew> will keep that for ever
2021-10-14T05:07:31 < jadew> but I also have 26 other ones... including some grown up ones
2021-10-14T05:07:44 < jadew> reducing their number is going to be challenging
2021-10-14T05:08:05 < jadew> that's not even all of them... I want to purge the old ones too
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2021-10-14T09:22:49 < Jak_o_Shadows_> I have gmail aas my permanent one
2021-10-14T09:22:52 < Jak_o_Shadows_> which is not ideal
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2021-10-14T11:41:31 < kakium69> catphish: 
2021-10-14T11:41:45 < kakium69> .ino means it needs complete rewrite
2021-10-14T11:42:19 < kakium69> if any file has that suffix it needs total rewrite
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2021-10-14T12:00:26 < Steffanx> 26 email addresses is all your own doing jadew. Cant feel sorry for you :P
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2021-10-14T12:45:00 < catphish> kakium69: lol
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2021-10-14T13:37:59 < Steffanx> I dont like your negativity kakium69  
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2021-10-14T15:05:23 < karlp> jadew: yeah, I went through a rationalization of them a few years ago, I used to use "tickets@, news@, lists@, company-blah@ and then my name@" and I worked them all down to just everything being on name@domain.
2021-10-14T15:05:29 < karlp> much simpler.
2021-10-14T15:05:34 < karlp> no change in spam amounts anyway
2021-10-14T15:08:17 < Steffanx> But I bet jadew even has 26 separate domains for them. Setting up aliases for your "old" addresses is easy
2021-10-14T15:08:34 < Steffanx> But with 26 domains.. fun fun
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2021-10-14T15:27:21 < BrainDamage> use 1 domain and have it catch all emails
2021-10-14T15:27:38 < BrainDamage> then give a different email to every site
2021-10-14T15:27:47 < BrainDamage> this way you can filter away spam
2021-10-14T15:50:37 < srk> I mostly use user+something@..
2021-10-14T15:51:17 < srk> sometimes its not accepted as valid mail tho..
2021-10-14T15:52:09 < srk> recently I've discovered that dovecot can automatically filter/create folders for these
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2021-10-14T16:04:14 < jadew> karlp, yeah, I started doing that as well
2021-10-14T16:04:29 < jadew> Steffanx, just some are like that
2021-10-14T16:05:08 < jadew> the real problem is that there are domain names I don't want to keep anymore, which means I have to close all the accounts associated with those email addresses
2021-10-14T16:05:25 < jadew> otherwise whoever is going to buy the domaih name in the future, will keep receiving my mail
2021-10-14T16:06:02 < jadew> when I got my company domain, I kept receiving emails from g-suite
2021-10-14T16:06:27 < jadew> I could have recovered the account and could have accessed their emails if I wanted to
2021-10-14T16:27:25 < Steffanx> Why did your foolish brain do this, jadew?
2021-10-14T16:51:06 < karlp> BrainDamage: I tried that for a while, but it didn't really make any difference.
2021-10-14T16:51:11 < karlp> alos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvv6zwpDIvo
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2021-10-14T21:15:10 < jadew> Steffanx, I thought it would be good to have separate accounts for different things user@ trash@ electronics@ etc...
2021-10-14T21:15:45 < Steffanx> But that problem is easy to fix with catch-all or aliases...
2021-10-14T21:15:47 < jadew> Then, I also made new accounts for various domain names: contact@ webinars@
2021-10-14T21:16:11 < Steffanx> The shitload of domains was more dumb 😋
2021-10-14T21:16:38 < jadew> yeah, that's less of a problem than the emails on different domains, but even so, I would like to change the accounts I associated with them to use a single address
2021-10-14T21:16:55 < jadew> Steffanx, well, one of my domain names is dumb.ro :D
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2021-10-14T21:45:49 < jadew> check this out, I ordered something from aliexpress ($100), got tracking number
2021-10-14T21:46:01 < jadew> a month later: shipment canceled by seller
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2021-10-14T22:22:44 < Steffanx> Yeah, happened to me too, jadew
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2021-10-14T23:17:06 < catphish> my day of hacking :) https://i.imgur.com/rMaKL2f.jpg
2021-10-14T23:17:19 < catphish> large motor running nicely now
2021-10-14T23:18:47 < qyx> is it a 48 V motor?
2021-10-14T23:21:14 < catphish> no, it's a 600v motor
2021-10-14T23:21:25 < catphish> but it will run at 48v
2021-10-14T23:24:15 < catphish> 600v would really only be needed if you wanted full torque 60mph+ :)
2021-10-14T23:24:26 < kakium69> same uni-t than I have
2021-10-14T23:24:30 < catphish> definitely not needed for a no load bench test
2021-10-14T23:24:36 < kakium69> best bang for buck
2021-10-14T23:25:06 < catphish> i rewrote the control software today
2021-10-14T23:25:09 < kakium69> if you want milliampere range clamp DC AC
2021-10-14T23:25:42 < kakium69> catphish: for idle load you can just rectify 400v 3phase
2021-10-14T23:26:04 < kakium69> c55 did that
2021-10-14T23:26:13 < kakium69> no need for any batteries
2021-10-14T23:26:30 < catphish> i could rectify 240v, or i could just use the huge lithium battery pack i have on the bench nearby
2021-10-14T23:26:40 < kakium69> do you have all of them?
2021-10-14T23:26:42 < catphish> but 48v lead acid is ideal for bench testing
2021-10-14T23:27:15 < catphish> kakium69: for this car, there are 20 x 16s packs, i the workshop ready to go
2021-10-14T23:27:17 < catphish> but they're not mine
2021-10-14T23:27:22 < catphish> i'm just working on it
2021-10-14T23:27:28 < kakium69> you are progressin fast
2021-10-14T23:27:40 < kakium69> getting it done
2021-10-14T23:27:40 < catphish> this isn't for my car
2021-10-14T23:27:45 < kakium69> ah
2021-10-14T23:27:57 < catphish> i'm working on someone else's car first
2021-10-14T23:28:00 < qyx> yeah if it was, you would  not progress that fast :P
2021-10-14T23:28:03 < catphish> then they're gonna help me wiht mine
2021-10-14T23:28:33 < catphish> using same battery modules hopefully
2021-10-14T23:28:38 < catphish> but mine will have a tesla motor
2021-10-14T23:29:15 < kakium69> it's cool you have like a community
2021-10-14T23:29:34 < kakium69> not just solo grind
2021-10-14T23:29:56 < catphish> yeah it's how i'm able to proceed with this project after 2-3 years of it just being a dream :)
2021-10-14T23:30:23 < catphish> so, there's a guy nearby who has a classic car restoration business, he wants to get into EV conversion, but doesn't know much about electronics
2021-10-14T23:30:46 < catphish> so i'm helping him out, working on his cars, helping him put together standardized kits he can use
2021-10-14T23:31:02 < kakium69> is it a business?
2021-10-14T23:31:03 < catphish> and in exchange he's gonna let me use his workshop and help with with mechanical fabrication
2021-10-14T23:31:07 < catphish> yeah
2021-10-14T23:32:10 < catphish> though the EV stuff isn't really profit making yet, just tinkering / learning / planning / doing own vehicled
2021-10-14T23:35:01 < Steffanx> tinkering is more fun than doing it as a business anyway :)
2021-10-14T23:38:45 < kakium69> it's prefferable every time
2021-10-14T23:38:57 < kakium69> if money ain't a problem
2021-10-14T23:39:35 < kakium69> but eventually tinkering leads to loss of focus
2021-10-14T23:46:06 < Steffanx> Yeah and then you move on to new tinkering 
2021-10-14T23:46:10 < kakium69> one's own amusement becomes all the value project has
2021-10-14T23:46:44 < catphish> isn't that ultimately all that matters though?
2021-10-14T23:47:21 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-14T23:47:33 < kakium69> only the path changes
2021-10-14T23:57:40 < kakium69> case and point https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/10LMxFniB3d02mo_OcB5d5jQPvoPp9ffU?usp=sharing
--- Day changed Fri Oct 15 2021
2021-10-15T00:00:23 < kakium69> I went total crackhead mode
2021-10-15T00:02:03 < catphish> what is that?
2021-10-15T00:03:40 < kakium69> I started to design nand flash emulator that could replace on-board NAND
2021-10-15T00:04:36 < kakium69> with discrete logic + sram acting as buffer + LUT
2021-10-15T00:05:13 < catphish> how fun
2021-10-15T00:05:59 < catphish> i know a guy was making an eeprom emulator for classic came carts, not quite as complex, but more fun :)
2021-10-15T00:06:16 < kakium69> I ended up having like 70 chips of logic
2021-10-15T00:06:21 < catphish> wow
2021-10-15T00:07:07 < kakium69> so I did a simple board for ECP5 versa evaluation board (fpga)
2021-10-15T00:07:35 < kakium69> ordered it just because it was fine lookin
2021-10-15T00:08:04 < kakium69> I don't think I will ever build it
2021-10-15T00:08:09 < Steffanx> Put it in the box with dev boards where it still is?
2021-10-15T00:08:32 < kakium69> it's on my floor in pcbway box
2021-10-15T00:09:03 < kakium69> did also money flex pcbs just to try them
2021-10-15T00:11:03 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16MLR9VdTSus7f5enUoilZYySBMrGaGL9/view?usp=sharing
2021-10-15T00:12:11 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHvA0QFDoVY musics
2021-10-15T00:12:50 < catphish> i bought some fpga dev boards, they're a fun novelty but haven't found any application yet
2021-10-15T00:14:40 < kakium69> some things cannot be done without fast logic chips or fpga or custom logic IC
2021-10-15T00:16:16 < catphish> well that's true
2021-10-15T00:16:34 < catphish> i am looking forward to using the rp2040 PIO
2021-10-15T00:17:08 < catphish> it's really just a cpu core with gpio, but having a ton of mini cores dedicated to gpio is really cool
2021-10-15T00:17:41 < catphish> ideal for bit banging proprietary stuff
2021-10-15T00:23:54 < kakium69> whaa
2021-10-15T00:24:07 < kakium69> microcontroller from rpi foundation :o
2021-10-15T00:25:19 < catphish> it's pretty cool (and cheap)
2021-10-15T00:25:43 < catphish> also also PIO :)
2021-10-15T00:31:25 < kakium69> it looks like it could emulate nand
2021-10-15T00:31:31 < kakium69> without FPGA
2021-10-15T00:33:03 < catphish> basically it's a whole bunch of cores dedicated at bitbanging at 133mhz!
2021-10-15T00:35:22 < Steffanx> Whats this other mcu doing this again?
2021-10-15T00:37:00 < catphish> mp2040 you mean?
2021-10-15T00:38:17 < Steffanx> No there is this older many core mcu. 
2021-10-15T00:39:09 < Steffanx> Parallax Propellor I think
2021-10-15T00:39:17 < kakium69> yes parallax
2021-10-15T00:39:33 < kakium69> weird stuff
2021-10-15T00:41:50 < catphish> when is all stm32 back in stock?
2021-10-15T00:41:53 < catphish> i want stm32
2021-10-15T00:43:01 < karlp> xmos too
2021-10-15T00:44:18 < Steffanx> I was thinking of xmos, but propellor showed up first
2021-10-15T00:46:56 < kakium69> there is one dealbreaker emulating nand with that rpi chip - it would require usb3.0 or dram equivalent of the size of emulated nand
2021-10-15T00:49:08 < kakium69> because when nand is in ready state and there is a read command data needs to be clocked out
2021-10-15T00:50:49 < kakium69> idk. if there is possibility of using busy for reads basically none of datasheets I looked at mentions about it.. all nands start pushing data out when controller starts clocking it
2021-10-15T00:50:58 < kakium69> and why wouldn't they
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2021-10-15T01:08:18 < zyp> rather than the PIO stuff, I hope we get more microcontrollers with embedded fpgas
2021-10-15T01:10:22 < zyp> although one might argue you can just go for a regular fpga and throw a soft-cpu in it if that's what you want
2021-10-15T01:11:27 < ventYl> he left
2021-10-15T01:11:33 < ventYl> i've been playing with rp2040
2021-10-15T01:11:36 < ventYl> not good not bad
2021-10-15T01:12:28 < zyp> it looks like a fun toy, but not really something I'd want to use for a real project
2021-10-15T01:12:39 < ventYl> depends on "real project" definition
2021-10-15T01:12:51 < ventYl> PIO peripheral might be able to "bitbang" stuff like CAN
2021-10-15T01:12:56 < zyp> say product then
2021-10-15T01:13:08 < ventYl> well, i'd rather use r2040 than esp*
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2021-10-15T01:13:43 < ventYl> IME ESP* is utter crap, unstable, unreliable
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2021-10-15T01:14:23 < zyp> esp32-c3 seems interesting enough, picked up a couple of boards but I haven't had time to play with them yet
2021-10-15T01:14:58 < zyp> but i mean, the whole point of the esp* parts are the radio
2021-10-15T01:15:01 < ventYl> probably the weakest point in rp2040 is lack of peripherals
2021-10-15T01:15:17 < ventYl> and/or GPIO pins, it is comparable to atmels, maybe even worse
2021-10-15T01:15:31 < ventYl> on the other side, you have two PIO peripherals and two cores
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2021-10-15T01:16:16 < zyp> as far as I've seen, rp2040 has little io, since you end up using a bunch of pins for power and external flash
2021-10-15T01:16:39 < zyp> and then there's the odd combination of two m0 cores
2021-10-15T01:16:45 < ventYl> IIRC you still end up with up to 30 GPIOs
2021-10-15T01:16:52 < ventYl> maybe a bit less
2021-10-15T01:17:02 < ventYl> external flash is connected to GPIO"B"
2021-10-15T01:17:19 < zyp> datasheet says 30 GPIO plus six dedicated to flash
2021-10-15T01:17:40 < zyp> that's pretty poor for a 56-pin chip
2021-10-15T01:18:12 < ventYl> yeah, on the other side, all you have is some timer, spi, i2c and serial. maybe some analogue circuitry
2021-10-15T01:18:35 < zyp> correction, it's dual m0+, not m0
2021-10-15T01:18:50 < ventYl> yeah, it is m0+, it runs my creepy RTOS, which requires m0+
2021-10-15T01:19:53 < zyp> no divide instruction, divider as memory mapped peripheral instead, great fun
2021-10-15T01:20:20 < ventYl> still usable, lack of internal flash is a bit more problematic
2021-10-15T01:20:37 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-15T01:20:38 < ventYl> you rely on masked ROM bootloader being able to read flash you connect to it
2021-10-15T01:20:55 < zyp> I'm also not convinced by the usefulness of having two cores
2021-10-15T01:21:20 < zyp> I mean
2021-10-15T01:21:25 < ventYl> and, which is worse, unless you totally reconfigure CPU, some vectors are handled by ROM, which means you have to have debug symbols for it
2021-10-15T01:21:28 < ventYl> there are none out there
2021-10-15T01:21:35 < ventYl> and gcc 10 won't compile it anymore
2021-10-15T01:21:43 < zyp> what
2021-10-15T01:22:15 < ventYl> for some reason, binary built by gcc 10 is a tad bit larger than flash size, so build will fail
2021-10-15T01:22:19 < ventYl> you have to use gcc 9
2021-10-15T01:22:42 < kakium69> what mcu?
2021-10-15T01:22:50 < ventYl> Raspberry Pi RP2040
2021-10-15T01:23:14 < ventYl> well, after all, it is raspberry. it is not meant primarilly for serious production work anyway
2021-10-15T01:23:34 < ventYl> it is more like education / research / DIY stuff and I think it will perform well there
2021-10-15T01:27:52 < ventYl> and it is also reasonably open, despite I don't like their SDK
2021-10-15T01:28:46 < kakium69> is gcc10 broken some way?
2021-10-15T01:30:00 < zyp> nah, gcc10 is great
2021-10-15T01:30:29 < ventYl> IDK, didn't compare builds of primary bootloader done by gcc 9 with gcc 10. I expect that they optimized the code straight to the edge to suit gcc 9 which causes something to be underoptimized when using gcc 10
2021-10-15T01:30:47 < ventYl> the bootloader is like 90 bytes smaller than ROM even if built by gcc 9
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2021-10-15T01:36:10 < kakium69> ROM as in flash?
2021-10-15T01:40:20 < kakium69> ah no flash
2021-10-15T01:41:57 < ventYl> it has no internal flash, only maskrom
2021-10-15T01:44:53 < kakium69> it could compete with fx2 then
2021-10-15T01:45:23 < kakium69> kinda same format
2021-10-15T01:45:45 < kakium69> io fifos and shiet but isn't fx2 like usb2.0?
2021-10-15T01:46:06 < ventYl> dunno, never heard of it
2021-10-15T01:46:27 < ventYl> hm, rp2040 has usb 1.1 support
2021-10-15T01:46:36 < ventYl> maybe both device and controller
2021-10-15T01:47:09 < ventYl> nevermind, time to sleep
2021-10-15T01:48:19 < ventYl> zyp: one funny use of cortex-m0+ SMP on RP2040 is to run debuger on core1 while running application on core0
2021-10-15T01:48:51 < ventYl> for me, the more interesting opportunity is to write SMP scheduler
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2021-10-15T03:16:11 < jadew> wtf... I can't even connect to freenode anymore
2021-10-15T03:16:48 < jadew> certificate issue, and if I ignore that, it's telling me to log in via irc.com?
2021-10-15T03:19:37 < qyx> I've just lit a candle for freenode
2021-10-15T03:20:51 < kakium69> if all people go shopping at the same time
2021-10-15T03:21:28 < kakium69> there will not be enough for everybody at the same time
2021-10-15T03:21:40 < kakium69> prices go up
2021-10-15T03:22:27 < kakium69> and that is effectivelly inflation
2021-10-15T03:23:55 < kakium69> it's interesting
2021-10-15T03:24:07 < kakium69> it doesn't matter what causes the rise of prices
2021-10-15T03:31:20 < jadew> that's not inflation
2021-10-15T03:31:46 < jadew> inflation is when the purchasing power of the entire population lowers
2021-10-15T03:32:44 < jadew> and it's almost always a result of the government printing money
2021-10-15T03:33:15 < jadew> it's a tax, that varies however much the government wants, without actually calling it a tax
2021-10-15T03:33:51 < jadew> and it's a tax on savings
2021-10-15T03:34:24 < jadew> you're losing roughly 50% of your savings to it every 10 years
2021-10-15T03:34:50 < jadew> maybe a bit less but, still in that ballpark, depends on the time you live in
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2021-10-15T05:02:42 < jadew> how do you guys mount windows raid under linux?
2021-10-15T05:03:01 < jadew> it used to detect it automatically and show it as one disk, now it doesn't work anymore
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2021-10-15T05:40:07 < jadew> that's why linux sucks
2021-10-15T05:40:15 < jadew> this shit used to work - don't know why or how
2021-10-15T05:40:27 < jadew> now it doesn't, and I can't find any info on how to fix it
2021-10-15T06:30:48 < jadew> fucking shit man... managed to mount the raid but now windows doesn't see it anymore
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2021-10-15T06:58:18 < jadew> ok, solved
2021-10-15T06:58:36 < jadew> do not use mdadm on the disks directly, but on the partitions
2021-10-15T06:58:53 < jadew> otherwise it's going to assign the same ID to the disks and windows won't let them go back online
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2021-10-15T07:58:21 < jadew> can't calibrate my monitors
2021-10-15T07:58:44 < jadew> I wish microsoft did a linux desktop
2021-10-15T08:21:36 < octorian> I wonder why the L0 and L1 are the only models that have built-in EEPROM.
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2021-10-15T09:44:46 < zyp> octorian, the L-series have a completely different flash from everything else, and eeprom is implemented as part of it
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2021-10-15T10:10:28 < ventYl> jadew: omg, whatever but don't let microsoft touch linux desktop
2021-10-15T10:11:19 < jpa-> octorian: the L series eeprom writes pause code execution (AN4808), so it is quite annoying for many purposes - i think that may be part of the reason why they don't put it on newer chips
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2021-10-15T13:14:44 < zyp> hmm
2021-10-15T13:15:15 < zyp> brought up LTDC with laks on the f7 discovery, debating whether I should do the FMC as well so I've got somewhere to put the framebuffer
2021-10-15T13:18:18 < zyp> I think I'll just do an 8-bit framebuffer in SRAM, L8 should be enough to get me started, and I can switch to CLUT later
2021-10-15T13:36:48 < zyp> huh, the layer registers are not taking writes
2021-10-15T13:39:28 < zyp> ah, they are shadow registers that needs to be reloaded
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2021-10-15T16:37:09 < octorian> jpa-, thanks for that info. Might lead to me changing my EEPROM-write routines a bit.  Otherwise, since I'm just using the EEPROM for configuration values (infrequent write), it probably won't really cause me any headaches.
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2021-10-15T19:33:36 < machinehum> Hello STMers
2021-10-15T19:33:41 < machinehum> How is Cube?
2021-10-15T19:34:18 < jpa-> roundish
2021-10-15T19:34:28 < jpa-> how's the hum?
2021-10-15T19:34:36 < machinehum> Loud
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2021-10-15T22:36:52 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20211015212318173.png
2021-10-15T22:36:55 < mawk> pretty figure
2021-10-15T22:51:57 < machinehum> Very nice
2021-10-15T22:51:59 < machinehum> What is it?
2021-10-15T22:53:42 < Steffanx> methed math
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 16 2021
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2021-10-16T01:17:20 < catphish>     // If a gear shift is in progress, additional shenanigans are in order
2021-10-16T01:17:20 < catphish>     // here to ensure parts of the transmission dont end up in the road.
2021-10-16T01:25:18 < mawk> it's obviously a bunch of parabolas 
2021-10-16T01:25:18 < mawk> even Steffanx can see it
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2021-10-16T03:49:58 < Jak_o_Shadows_> I really want to do something with the FX2
2021-10-16T03:50:53 < Jak_o_Shadows_> Through I think I want 1000 Hz update rate for a USB HID, rather than what you can do with the stm32f1
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2021-10-16T04:56:23 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOELrGMn14
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2021-10-16T21:10:51 < zyp> 02:50:53 < Jak_o_Shadows_> Through I think I want 1000 Hz update rate for a USB HID, rather than what you can do with the stm32f1
2021-10-16T21:11:04 < zyp> stm32f1 can do 1000 Hz HID no problem
2021-10-16T21:11:20 < zyp> any stm32 with usb can
2021-10-16T21:12:36 < catphish> working with cars, i realised i rather like this rugged form factor https://imgur.com/a/ENHAxZK
2021-10-16T21:14:32 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-16T21:16:05 < jpa-> maybe he meant 8000 Hz HID
2021-10-16T21:16:07 < Steffanx> This module on pin headers though.....
2021-10-16T21:16:24 < catphish> fedex seem to have lost my mouser package :(
2021-10-16T21:16:54 < jpa-> no mice for cat today
2021-10-16T21:16:59 < zyp> just get them to send another then?
2021-10-16T21:17:41 < catphish> zyp: it's only a couple of days late, i'm sure it'll show up
2021-10-16T21:18:04 < catphish> it came from USA, landed in london on thursday and seems to have been stuck there since
2021-10-16T21:18:36 < catphish> they're usually super quick
2021-10-16T21:19:14 < Steffanx> But brexit happened.
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2021-10-16T21:33:34 < zyp> not like mouser is in EU though
2021-10-16T21:50:16 < catphish> zyp: unfortunately, leaving EU means not only tearing up treaties between UK and EU but also between UK-as-part-of-EU and rest of world
2021-10-16T21:51:00 < catphish> the noticeable impact is losing free trade status with EU though
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2021-10-16T21:56:08 < kakium69> Anyone know Billy Idol songs?
2021-10-16T21:58:32 < BrainDamage> kakium69: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1NrQYXjLU
2021-10-16T22:00:27 < kakium69> know any songs about a car?
2021-10-16T22:00:38 < kakium69> maybe it was not billy idol
2021-10-16T22:00:57 < PaulFertser> kakium69: highway star by Deep Purple
2021-10-16T22:01:07 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-16T22:01:15 < kakium69> Deep Purple
2021-10-16T22:02:15 < kakium69> instant knowledge
2021-10-16T22:02:30 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr9ie2J2690 here musics
2021-10-16T22:02:33 < kakium69> thanks PaulFertser
2021-10-16T22:03:50 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7PHolrHOck maybe better quality
2021-10-16T22:03:54 < PaulFertser> kakium69: :D
2021-10-16T22:04:17 < kakium69> we had insane night last night
2021-10-16T22:04:23 < kakium69> at karaoke bar
2021-10-16T22:05:25 < kakium69> friend 30yo
2021-10-16T22:09:03 < kakium69> at least 4 really good singers so delightful
2021-10-16T22:09:52 < kakium69> and a lot of rock'n'roll songs
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2021-10-16T22:48:40 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gluLOD_6HU new marcoreps video
2021-10-16T22:50:49 < aandrew> new who video?
2021-10-16T22:55:57 < Steffanx> you know him aandrew. i know you do
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 17 2021
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2021-10-17T01:46:46 < englishman> https://spaceflightnow.com/2015/01/04/photos-long-march-rocket-stage-falls-in-rural-china/
2021-10-17T01:46:49 < englishman> cool
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2021-10-17T01:51:47 < machinehum> wow
2021-10-17T01:51:49 < machinehum> That's nutes
2021-10-17T01:51:52 < machinehum> nutes
2021-10-17T01:51:55 < machinehum> nuts
2021-10-17T01:52:39 < machinehum> Speaking of Chinese
2021-10-17T01:52:46 < machinehum> Has anyone used one of these? https://tinyurl.com/4m428zxx
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2021-10-17T01:53:19 < machinehum> Oh can you reflow on that
2021-10-17T01:54:24 < machinehum> 350C... seems okay
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2021-10-17T02:10:34 < englishman> is that a referral link lol
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2021-10-17T02:21:25 < machinehum> Yeah if you guys use it you can get 10% off a janky Chinese SMD heater thing
2021-10-17T02:21:28 < machinehum> Thanks for the support
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2021-10-17T04:46:53 < jadew> that MCU selector thing, should have done it back when Atmel was still on its own
2021-10-17T04:47:30 < jadew> it's super difficult to get information from Microchip
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2021-10-17T07:28:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> zyp, as far as I could tell, 1000 Hz HID required a higher USB spec than the f1 has
2021-10-17T07:29:04 < Jak_o_Shadows> through maybe I did mean 8000 Hz
2021-10-17T07:29:54 < Jak_o_Shadows> Through TBH, I think the real solution to the problem I was having would be some sort of sync signal coming out of the computer
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2021-10-17T10:52:33 < zyp> Jak_o_Shadows, what problem?
2021-10-17T10:53:01 < Jak_o_Shadows> The idea was to make a bot for the racing game trackmania 2020
2021-10-17T10:53:21 < Jak_o_Shadows> and use a joystick HID to play back a sequence of commands
2021-10-17T10:53:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> but despite being able to restart the race (so you'd think setting to a consistent game state), the results aren't reproducible
2021-10-17T10:54:04 < Jak_o_Shadows> So 8000 Hz might do it - but probably better to be exporting frame times or something out of the game
2021-10-17T10:56:35 < jpa-> why would you do such a thing in hardware?
2021-10-17T10:57:35 < lemmi> Jak_o_Shadows: fwiw, the stm32f072 seemed to work fine with 1khz poll rate
2021-10-17T10:57:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> kemmi, yeah, I must've gotten confused
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2021-10-17T10:58:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> jpa-, I already had the skillset to make a USB HID joystick and play back sequence, so it was an easier option than hooking into the game
2021-10-17T10:58:36 < jpa-> 8kHz updates need USB high speed, which is available on some of the higher end STM32s
2021-10-17T10:58:53 < Jak_o_Shadows> and I kinda liked the idea of it being a) portable and b) maybe less detectable?
2021-10-17T10:58:57 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, the H7's?
2021-10-17T10:59:05 < jpa-> and some F4s and F7s
2021-10-17T11:00:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'm not sure it would fix it
2021-10-17T11:00:25 < Jak_o_Shadows> through the bit of extra power might help with getting the sync signal from a computer
2021-10-17T11:00:53 < jpa-> that game probably operates at timesteps/framerates of at most 100-200 Hz
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2021-10-17T11:01:11 < jpa-> and the problem of repeatability is probably due to variable frame timings
2021-10-17T11:01:29 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah
2021-10-17T11:01:36 < Jak_o_Shadows> It's interesting though, because it is deterministic
2021-10-17T11:01:53 < Jak_o_Shadows> they have a replay system, and people have developed a tool assisted system
2021-10-17T11:02:44 < Jak_o_Shadows> The replay files seem to only record inputs at 10 ms intervals
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2021-10-17T15:59:39 < karlp> machinehum: I have ~exactly that preheater.
2021-10-17T15:59:43 < karlp> it's great?
2021-10-17T16:00:16 < karlp> we've not had it long, but it made the difference between "completely unable to solder down LGA modules with hot air" to "everything just works now"
2021-10-17T16:02:01 < karlp> it's more "uniform" than some of the IR ones under a wire mesh, but probably less flexible in terms of double sided parts and shit?
2021-10-17T16:03:27 < karlp> mine was cheaper though: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32876049554.html
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2021-10-17T19:53:27 < machinehum> karlp: Thanks
2021-10-17T19:53:30 < machinehum> Yeah I bought it
2021-10-17T19:56:53 < jpa-> karlp: do you use it as a preheater or also reflow with it?
2021-10-17T20:01:22 < machinehum> I imagine you just reflow on it
2021-10-17T20:01:26 < machinehum> Like a hotplate
2021-10-17T20:01:50 < jpa-> yeah, i would expect it to work for that (i currently just use the kitchen stove)
2021-10-17T20:01:58 < jpa-> but "preheater" sounded like something comes after it :)
2021-10-17T20:02:27 < machinehum> I know lots of people preheat there boards just below the solder melting temp
2021-10-17T20:02:31 < machinehum> Makes rework really easy
2021-10-17T20:02:47 < machinehum> Hit it with a little bit of heat, do some work
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2021-10-17T22:08:05 < Mangy_Dog> im having a really bad idea and i need advise.... So i have a "small" project im begining to work on. A LCD based PC hardware monitor. Using the same hardware im using on my tricorder. Anyway using the stm32f103, the current original plan is to just use the stm32 in virtual serial mode to read the stream of data from the hardware monitor api running inside an app im developing for the PC...
2021-10-17T22:08:05 < Mangy_Dog> .  This would be simple and using my framed serial method ive made. It would work. But.... a part of me kinda feels like sending out old serial every second will cause some hold up on the host PC as its a rather slow method to send data. So heres the bad idea. Rather than send data on virtual serial. Make the monitor a USB peripheral and make a small simple driver to hook to it, and have my 
2021-10-17T22:08:05 < Mangy_Dog> app send data via that at the full speed available with minimal overhead?
2021-10-17T22:08:53 < Mangy_Dog> ive done a USB HID before on the stm32 using the available built in libraries for it. How hard will it be making a simple driver for this? Also can i make one and get around the whole windows driver signing issue?
2021-10-17T22:10:38 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: with virtual serial the speed isn't really limited by baud rate, it's limited by USB itself. And the PC won't waste any considerable resources sending the data, it's all DMA+IRQ driven.
2021-10-17T22:11:09 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: for Windows if your device implements USB HID in some specific way you can use it from userspace without any drivers AFAIK.
2021-10-17T22:11:10 < Mangy_Dog> ok so it wont cause any pc hicks or hangups 
2021-10-17T22:11:59 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
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2021-10-17T22:23:12 < kakium69> hellouium
2021-10-17T22:23:21 < mawk> find all the n for which we have 5ⁿ = 7 mod 11 ?
2021-10-17T22:30:14 < qyx> is this a class on cryptography
2021-10-17T22:32:04 < catphish> tonight's beer is 16 years past its "best before" date https://i.imgur.com/rh4OEke.jpg
2021-10-17T22:32:22 < Mangy_Dog> PaulFertser is the rawhid example what you were talking about?
2021-10-17T22:32:48 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/SSsEuqFm this
2021-10-17T22:34:15 < kakium69> catphish: it's just fine?
2021-10-17T22:34:48 < catphish> it's a little flat
2021-10-17T22:42:17 < kakium69> todays finance news: home prices falling
2021-10-17T22:43:11 < Steffanx> Lies.
2021-10-17T22:43:11 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I'm not sure, sorry, I just know windows sucks in strange ways, and that at least some HID devices can be used without drivers.
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2021-10-17T23:54:39 < karlp> jpa-: it allegedly goes high enough to reflow, but we've only used it for pre-heating so far.
2021-10-17T23:54:52 < karlp> we're onyl assembling a few protos, it's not seen much use.
2021-10-17T23:55:05 < karlp> paste, place, put on the heater, then hot air on top...
2021-10-17T23:56:46 < karlp> catphish: nice one! I'm well into "old" beer things like that.  how did the old peculiar hold up?
2021-10-17T23:59:12 < catphish> karlp: it was a bit flat, but tasted much like a new one
--- Day changed Mon Oct 18 2021
2021-10-18T00:00:16 < catphish> wtf fedex https://i.imgur.com/c6gj0Zf.png
2021-10-18T00:01:07 < catphish> my parcel is now 3 days late and traveling in circles
2021-10-18T00:13:11 < kakium69> they ran out of storage?
2021-10-18T00:13:26 < kakium69> so they keep it on wheels until they find someone to deliver it to you?
2021-10-18T00:14:43 < kakium69> storage of lean system is actually the transit
2021-10-18T00:26:06 < catphish> lol seems that way, driver shortage going on i guess :(
2021-10-18T00:27:36 < kakium69> maybe you could go to work for fedex until you deliver your own parcel
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2021-10-18T00:29:37 < catphish> lol that could work
2021-10-18T00:30:24 < kakium69> like a legend who applied for job just to fix a bug that annoyed him as a user then left
2021-10-18T00:31:04 < catphish> i worked as the head of technology for my own ISP for 6 months, they still don't have ipv6
2021-10-18T00:31:44 < kakium69> I don't have ipv6
2021-10-18T00:32:24 < catphish> ipv6 is the shit
2021-10-18T00:32:27 < catphish> but i have none :(
2021-10-18T00:32:50 < kakium69> you just casually did ISP?
2021-10-18T00:33:38 < kakium69> for yourself to have better internets?
2021-10-18T00:33:46 < catphish> i asked if i could be their CTO because, it seemed like a good idea at the time
2021-10-18T00:34:13 < catphish> i really couldn't have better internet tough (apart from the ipv6 thing)
2021-10-18T00:34:35 < catphish> i have gigabit ethernet to my house, and 10G ethernet to the street cabinet outside
2021-10-18T00:34:48 < kakium69> ah not your own(possession)
2021-10-18T00:35:06 < kakium69> but your own(subscription)
2021-10-18T00:35:12 < catphish> ah, no, not on my own
2021-10-18T00:35:19 < catphish> the ISP is a local company
2021-10-18T00:35:25 < catphish> i just worked there for a while
2021-10-18T00:38:19 < kakium69> what did you do as CTO?
2021-10-18T00:39:30 < catphish> i didn't actually get the CTO job i wanted, i did have the most senior technical job, but they weren't ready for another director so it wasn't technically CTO
2021-10-18T00:40:29 < kakium69> so what did your ISP job consist of?
2021-10-18T00:40:58 < catphish> i did a lot of different things in the end, at a high level, made decisions about what hardware to use for roadside cabinet / customer premises, assisted with network planning and configuration, planned projects
2021-10-18T00:41:23 < catphish> at a lower level, planned and configured installations for high value customers, did some 3rd line customer support
2021-10-18T00:41:37 < catphish> redeigned the VoIP system
2021-10-18T00:43:09 < catphish> in the end, i was doing too much and lost focus / energy, the senior network engineer who i really needed to collaborate with was almost impossible to work with, and it seemed like too much effort
2021-10-18T00:45:10 < catphish> the interesting part was designing the power systems for the distribution cabinets
2021-10-18T00:45:19 < catphish> but customer support, nonono
2021-10-18T00:45:54 < kakium69> customer support is fun
2021-10-18T00:46:04 < kakium69> said nobody - never
2021-10-18T00:47:08 < kakium69> was the senior network engineer competent?
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2021-10-18T00:53:51 < catphish> kakium69: yes, he was excellent at network engineering, he was just condescending, didn't speak very good english, and overconfident in areas where he wasn't as good
2021-10-18T00:55:00 < kakium69> oh.. bummer
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2021-10-18T01:00:12 < catphish> it was a cool place really, small ISP, on the weird bridge between small company and large company
2021-10-18T01:00:22 < catphish> so there was a lot to be done
2021-10-18T01:00:37 < catphish> and proably not enough engineers
2021-10-18T01:00:51 < catphish> which i suppose was technically my fault
2021-10-18T01:01:09 < catphish> i realised too late that my job probably should heve included hiring people
2021-10-18T01:02:17 < catphish> anyway working for an ISP in a way involves a lot of what you'd expect, building network, choosing hardware, getting customers online, making sure their home network does what it's supposed to do, negotiating transit
2021-10-18T01:02:41 < catphish> but probably more weighted towards customer support than i'd hoped
2021-10-18T01:02:59 < catphish> also, problems, annoying things like power outages, endless power outages
2021-10-18T01:20:47 < kakium69> any idea of why I have cloud service ip addresses in lan?
2021-10-18T01:21:59 < kakium69> I think it has something to do with network cameras
2021-10-18T01:23:12 < kakium69> ip's that belong to Akamai, Ripe NCC, Google
2021-10-18T01:23:17 < kakium69> in LAN
2021-10-18T01:23:34 < kakium69> man in the middle?
2021-10-18T01:26:45 < kakium69> these have only Rx bytes in Traffic Monitor
2021-10-18T01:41:50 < catphish> kakium69: hard to say without knowing exactly what you're seeing
2021-10-18T01:41:59 < kakium69> sure
2021-10-18T01:42:02 < kakium69> just a minute
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2021-10-18T01:43:31 < kakium69> those have been cleared from traffic view now
2021-10-18T01:46:03 < kakium69> I still have the IP's though
2021-10-18T01:46:11 < kakium69> also one Amazon IP
2021-10-18T01:48:27 < kakium69> do cloud services use any of their IP space in LAN?
2021-10-18T01:48:49 < kakium69> contrary to what cloud is
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2021-10-18T01:59:38 < m4t> hey, is there a way to use the internal pull-ups for hw i2c (sda+scl) on a blue pill w/the official 'STM32 MCU based boards' arduino package? i can't tell for sure but it appears that the pin settings are being cleared/restored during/after the i2c transaction. was trying e.g. pinMode(PB9, INPUT_PULLUP);
2021-10-18T02:00:24 < m4t> i understand they're weak, like 20k, but i imagine they'd work if they could remain active during the i2c transaction
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2021-10-18T02:14:11 < fenugrec> m4t, 20k is really not great for i2c. Expect horrible edges and maybe failure at even 100khz
2021-10-18T02:14:49 < m4t> yes i understand this
2021-10-18T02:14:57 < m4t> is there a way to use them?
2021-10-18T02:18:45 < m4t> i2c is actually more robust than people make it out to be ime. i've done 100khz through like 100ft of cat6. yes, the waveform looks horrible.
2021-10-18T02:20:19 < m4t> just as a test btw, the real usage clocks it down to 1khz and much less than 100ft
2021-10-18T02:21:17 < m4t> anyways i just wedged some resistors into the screw terminals here for the time being, still curious if it's possible to use the internal pullups
2021-10-18T02:21:48 < m4t> e.g. is it a limitation in the hardware or just the Wire implementation, or neither
2021-10-18T02:34:36 < fenugrec> I believe the weak PU is a characteristic of those pin's output driver structure, so it should work. "more special" pins like USB D+/D- possibly differ
2021-10-18T02:35:31 < fenugrec> see eg RM0008 chapter 9
2021-10-18T02:40:34 < m4t> with pinMode(..., INPUT_PULLUP), it was high before the transaction, sda+scl went low for the duration of the transaction, then went high again afterwards (per pulseview)
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2021-10-18T11:58:12 < Jak_o_Shadows> Mangy Dog (who is not here): I  have had decent rate using generic USB endpoints
2021-10-18T11:58:34 < Jak_o_Shadows> m4t, is it possibly a thing with your library?
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2021-10-18T18:30:09 < karlp> fecking, '&#160;' instead of '&nbsp;' wat why.
2021-10-18T18:30:21 < karlp> same number of bytes.
2021-10-18T18:30:27 < karlp> just way fucking harder to read 
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2021-10-18T19:05:27 < mawk> lol
2021-10-18T19:05:38 < mawk> easier to read for a machine maybe
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2021-10-18T19:17:31 < karlp> trying to google for it is fun...
2021-10-18T19:17:37 < karlp> google for &#160; is no results.
2021-10-18T19:17:47 < karlp> google for "&#160;" is converted to " " ....
2021-10-18T19:20:53 < karlp> found one source that said xml/xsl doesn't do html entity references, and must use &#160 insteadof &nbsp but no proof.
2021-10-18T19:22:49 < karlp> oh, so pure xml only allows &gt &lt &amp &quot and &apos.
2021-10-18T19:22:52 < karlp> fuck xml
2021-10-18T19:22:52 < mawk> ah that may be
2021-10-18T19:23:22 < karlp> any fucking DTD in use anywhere is going to use &nbsp.  (given that, in this context, it's for html output anyway)
2021-10-18T19:27:46 < mawk> yeah nobody cares about xml
2021-10-18T19:27:54 < mawk> all parsers will parse it correctly
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2021-10-18T23:13:08 < kakium69> catphish: innovations?
2021-10-18T23:13:18 < kakium69> you talk to battery modules yet?
2021-10-18T23:13:48 < catphish> kakium69: working on it right now, parts arrived today :)
2021-10-18T23:14:36 < kakium69> sweet
2021-10-18T23:14:41 < kakium69> pic of parts?
2021-10-18T23:14:50 < kakium69> I have not ordered parts for 2years now
2021-10-18T23:15:28 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/ThFdbpf.jpg
2021-10-18T23:15:46 < qyx> kakium69: john deere only?
2021-10-18T23:16:24 < kakium69> wym qyx?
2021-10-18T23:16:38 < kakium69> you mean just driving tractors all the time?
2021-10-18T23:20:24 < catphish> i'm learning how this rp2040 PIO api works
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2021-10-18T23:33:33 < ventYl> the SDK isn't the best one
2021-10-18T23:33:48 < ventYl> thet mixed MCU docs with SDK docs into one document
--- Day changed Tue Oct 19 2021
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2021-10-19T00:12:39 < kakium69> https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/7-foot-tall-harambe-statue-stares-down-wall-streets-charging-bull-which-is-now-covered-in-bananas/3330853/
2021-10-19T00:12:54 < catphish> not too painful https://paste.debian.net/1215907/
2021-10-19T00:14:05 < catphish> fixed comments https://paste.debian.net/1215911/
2021-10-19T00:18:10 < catphish> more improvements, if anyone cares for this assembly :) https://paste.debian.net/1215913/
2021-10-19T00:20:18 < kakium69> people who understand PIO assemby on this channel can be counted with fingers of one hand
2021-10-19T00:20:18 < mawk> if F_n is the n-th fibonacci number, then F_0 + F_1/2 + F_2/4 + F_3/8 + F_4/16 + F_5/32 + F_6/64 + ... = 2
2021-10-19T00:20:21 < mawk> prove it zyp 
2021-10-19T00:20:45 < Steffanx> 42
2021-10-19T00:20:50 < mawk> yes because nobody like rpi kakium69 
2021-10-19T00:21:00 < kakium69> are you on math again mawk?
2021-10-19T00:21:01 < mawk> no it's 2 I said Steffanx 
2021-10-19T00:21:23 < mawk> yes kakium69 why
2021-10-19T00:21:36 < catphish> kakium69: well i didn't understand it until an hour ago
2021-10-19T00:21:47 < catphish> and now i have a functional serial transmitter :)
2021-10-19T00:21:48 < catphish> so i'm happy
2021-10-19T00:21:48 < ventYl> it has like 9 instructions in total
2021-10-19T00:21:57 < catphish> yep
2021-10-19T00:22:06 < ventYl> and it is stupid enough, you can generate it using C preprocessor
2021-10-19T00:22:11 < catphish> they're kinda overloaded
2021-10-19T00:22:19 < catphish> lol
2021-10-19T00:22:27 < ventYl> RPI SDK actually can do that
2021-10-19T00:22:28 < ventYl> kinda
2021-10-19T00:22:41 < ventYl> because you can somehow send assembly via PIO FIFOs
2021-10-19T00:23:05 < ventYl> *that* is the real power of PIO
2021-10-19T00:24:37 < kakium69> making it extremelly flexible
2021-10-19T00:25:32 < kakium69> mawk: https://i.imgur.com/5iBfodf.jpg
2021-10-19T00:25:35 < catphish> you can sort of send code in fifos
2021-10-19T00:25:43 < catphish> but i don't think that's a particularly sane use of them
2021-10-19T00:27:00 < ventYl> i am not quite sure how PIO handles that but if you can send the code using FIFO and latch it somehow, you can get extremely powerful peripheral
2021-10-19T00:30:05 < mawk> try it kakium69 you'll like it
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2021-10-19T00:39:14 < catphish> have other poeple here actually used this?
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2021-10-19T00:41:30 < kakium69> I know how to get instant stress now
2021-10-19T00:43:28 < kakium69> trying to figure out what is happening @economy
2021-10-19T00:43:52 < ventYl> catphish: RP2040 PIO?
2021-10-19T00:44:12 < catphish> ventYl: yesh
2021-10-19T00:45:48 < ventYl> i've only read about it, didn't get that far to actually use it
2021-10-19T00:47:32 < ventYl> i have a bunch of rpi picos here
2021-10-19T00:47:44 < ventYl> and started initial support of rp2040 in libopencm3
2021-10-19T00:54:58 < Steffanx> Its fucked. Lets move on, kakium69 
2021-10-19T00:55:48 < kakium69> but but
2021-10-19T00:55:53 < kakium69> gains
2021-10-19T00:55:53 < ventYl> no
2021-10-19T00:56:22 < kakium69> I want to hop on gain train
2021-10-19T01:00:22 < Steffanx> Go watch Squid Game instead  kakium69 
2021-10-19T01:00:43 < kakium69> you assume i have not?
2021-10-19T01:12:16 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-10-19T02:06:24 < fenugrec> I opened a L1/L2 GPS antenna today. Cool preamp : https://ibb.co/pKK197F
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2021-10-19T02:15:16 < catphish> oh yes, climb abord my motherfucking boat https://i.imgur.com/11ryzv9.jpg
2021-10-19T02:15:44 < catphish> yellow is tx to the battery, blue is rx
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2021-10-19T04:13:41 < catphish> battery communication seemingly working
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2021-10-19T06:11:53 < upgrdman> ssh pros: im trying to run a gui program on a remote host, with the gui running on the REMOTE host (not funneled over the network)... if i run something like "nautilus" it seems to work, but with java programs i get an error about being headless. is there something i need to set to force gui's to run on the remote host?
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2021-10-19T06:16:32 < upgrdman> oh, export DISPLAY=:0
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2021-10-19T10:06:50 < Jak_o_Shadows> mawk, something something using the golden ratio definition of fibonacci numbers?
2021-10-19T10:10:20 < mawk> by doing that you can prove that the sum converges
2021-10-19T10:10:31 < mawk> because 2 > φ where φ is the golden ratio
2021-10-19T10:10:40 < mawk> but that's not enough to determine the value of the sum
2021-10-19T10:13:23 < mawk> at least I don't think it's enough, but maybe
2021-10-19T10:13:29 < mawk> if you do it right actually it might work
2021-10-19T10:15:02 < mawk> you split F_n as (φ^n - φ^*n)/sqrt(5), then Σ F_n/2^n = (1/(1-φ/2) - 1/(1-φ*/2))/sqrt(5)
2021-10-19T10:15:02 < mawk> = 2
2021-10-19T10:15:02 < mawk> yeah
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2021-10-19T10:17:00 < mawk> what about F_0 + F_2/4 + F_4/16 + F_6/64 + ... Jak_o_Shadows ?
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2021-10-19T10:34:35 < Jak_o_Shadows> Honestly, didn't try to figure it out
2021-10-19T10:34:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> that was just my guess on how to approach it
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2021-10-19T12:10:07 < mawk> I don't want excuses Jak_o_Shadows 
2021-10-19T12:10:26 < Jak_o_Shadows> I have a friend with a PhD who agrees that it's probably possible
2021-10-19T12:10:58 < mawk> what's possible
2021-10-19T12:11:05 < Jak_o_Shadows> proving it
2021-10-19T12:11:15 < mawk> yes
2021-10-19T12:11:21 < mawk> I showed how to do it here
2021-10-19T12:11:24 < mawk> 110227 <mawk> [09:15:01] you split F_n as (φ^n - φ^*n)/sqrt(5), then Σ F_n/2^n = (1/(1-φ/2) - 1/(1-φ*/2))/sqrt(5)
2021-10-19T12:11:24 < mawk> 110227 <mawk> [09:15:02] = 2
2021-10-19T12:11:34 < mawk> by using the golden ratio definition of F
2021-10-19T12:11:45 < Jak_o_Shadows> ah, ok
2021-10-19T12:11:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> yeah
2021-10-19T12:13:02 < mawk> in general F_0 + F_1x + F_2x^2 + … = x/(1-x-x²)
2021-10-19T12:13:09 < Jak_o_Shadows> yeah
2021-10-19T12:13:32 < mawk> why yeah
2021-10-19T12:13:36 < mawk> prove it
2021-10-19T12:13:59 < mawk> you're only allowed to say yeah if you can produce a rigorous proof from first principles
2021-10-19T12:14:06 < Jak_o_Shadows> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2021-10-19T12:14:08 < mawk> it's in the channel rules
2021-10-19T12:14:24 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'm not really a mathematician
2021-10-19T12:14:31 < Jak_o_Shadows> can you just put it into wolfram alpha?
2021-10-19T12:14:50 < mawk> if you know what to ask
2021-10-19T12:15:13 < mawk> "what is the generating function of the Fibonacci sequence?" maybe
2021-10-19T12:15:42 < Jak_o_Shadows> I did once see the proof for the closed form version of the fibonacci sequence
2021-10-19T12:16:45 < mawk> it's not incredibly hard
2021-10-19T12:17:39 < mawk> if you assume that a function that respects f(n+2) = f(n+1) + f(n) looks like x^n you simply solve for x
2021-10-19T12:17:41 < mawk> and x is the golden ratio
2021-10-19T12:17:45 < mawk> and his little brother
2021-10-19T12:17:58 < Jak_o_Shadows> yeah
2021-10-19T12:18:06 < Jak_o_Shadows> I think I saw it in the contet of optimisation
2021-10-19T12:30:03 < catphish> i have a electronics question. i have a setup with rs485 and a 3.3v MCU, i'm using a 3.3V RS485 driver, but i'd ideally like more drive strength (5v), what would be the best way to achieve this, i don't know if a dual voltage rs485 chip exists, if not, what's my best option for connecting a 5v 4MHz signal to a 3.3v MCU pin?
2021-10-19T12:31:58 < jpa-> use a 5V tolerant pin & a driver that has 3.3V compatible input levels?
2021-10-19T12:32:18 < catphish> there are no 5v tolerant pins :'(
2021-10-19T12:32:38 < jpa-> i smell a non-stm32 microcontroller!
2021-10-19T12:32:45 < catphish> yep!
2021-10-19T12:32:52 < catphish> i'm using rp2040 this week
2021-10-19T12:32:58 < jpa-> did you search for suitable transceivers?
2021-10-19T12:33:50 < catphish> yes and no, i tried, but i'm not sure *how* to search for a dual supply transceiver
2021-10-19T12:37:34 < jpa-> maybe TD041S485H? it is isolated but not that expensive, and has dual supply
2021-10-19T12:39:42 < catphish> i think "logic supply" is the keyword
2021-10-19T12:40:33 < catphish> 1.65V to 5.5V Logic Supply Pin (VL) for Flexible Digital Interface (LTC2865)
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2021-10-19T13:31:25 < karlp> what does "more drive" mean? rs485 drivers drive "unit loads" independent of their supply voltage?
2021-10-19T13:32:11 < karlp> and the outputs are differential, so, ... not really sure I follow?
2021-10-19T13:32:53 < karlp> the load they present to the bus is also defined in unit loads, and you can get 1/2, 1/4, even 1/8 load drivers so you can have more than 32 on a bus, but still....
2021-10-19T13:32:59 < karlp> it's "the same"
2021-10-19T13:35:44 < PaulFertser> I think catphish was thinking about noise immunity rather than drive, probably assuming the bigger the voltage swing the better the link in the close proximity of high currents from the car electric motor etc.
2021-10-19T13:36:30 < ventYl> isn't that immunity provided by differential drive and twisted-pair?
2021-10-19T13:37:33 < ventYl> achievement unlocked: spill one cup of coffee three times in row
2021-10-19T13:37:44 < karlp> nice one!
2021-10-19T13:39:05 < catphish> karlp: you may be correct, my inexpert assumption was that a greater differential voltage would be more immune to noise, and the thing i'm communicating with has a load designed for +/-5 5V
2021-10-19T13:39:25 < catphish> with that said, 3.3V does wrk fine
2021-10-19T13:39:30 < ventYl> what are my chances in using BLE 4.0 radio for talking to BT 1.x devices? I assume that this is impossible due to different freq hopping scheme, if not anything else in radio properties
2021-10-19T13:40:17 < catphish> my thought process was simply: the thing at the other end of this line outputs 5v, i probably should too
2021-10-19T13:40:51 < catphish> my understanding of transmission lines is "poor"
2021-10-19T13:41:49 < catphish> this is my setup, which works fine, but it's not really designed very deliberately :( https://i.imgur.com/sszUFop.png
2021-10-19T13:41:52 < karlp> yeah,  it doesn't matter.  your 3.3v transceiver will still say "inputs from -9 to +12" or whaatever it is, 
2021-10-19T13:42:10 < karlp> and the logcit outputs are defined by the difference between a and b being more or less than 0.5v or something.
2021-10-19T13:42:50 < catphish> right, the device at the other end transmits +/- 5v
2021-10-19T13:43:10 < catphish> and +/- 3v3 also works, but surely more is better?
2021-10-19T13:43:21 < karlp> you mean, "when I probe just one line, A or B, it has a 5V peak to peak range" ?
2021-10-19T13:44:08 < catphish> karlp: yes, and also when probing across both lines, i see 10v p-t-p
2021-10-19T13:44:35 < karlp> all that matters is the difference between them though.
2021-10-19T13:44:43 < karlp> you can't get taht by measuring across them 
2021-10-19T13:44:43 < catphish> yes, the difference is 5v
2021-10-19T13:44:58 < catphish> wait, what?
2021-10-19T13:45:00 < karlp> what?
2021-10-19T13:45:02 < karlp> you'
2021-10-19T13:45:04 < ventYl> :D
2021-10-19T13:45:15 < karlp> you need a reference.
2021-10-19T13:45:17 < catphish> surely measuring across then is *exactly* how you measure the difference
2021-10-19T13:45:25 < karlp> you're measuing the voltage betweent hem, not the difference
2021-10-19T13:45:38 < karlp> fuckin
2021-10-19T13:45:42 < catphish> i'm not following how that isn't the same thing
2021-10-19T13:45:47 < karlp> I mean, compared to ground.
2021-10-19T13:45:58 < karlp> rs485 is often talked about as 2 wire, but it's really 3, a/b/common.
2021-10-19T13:46:09 < catphish> so, this is where things get messy
2021-10-19T13:46:16 < catphish> i don't have a ground, this is a floating line
2021-10-19T13:47:14 < catphish> so i try to bias it: https://i.imgur.com/sszUFop.png
2021-10-19T13:47:20 < catphish> this works, but it really is guesswork
2021-10-19T13:47:21 < karlp> yeah, your line biasing should be fine.
2021-10-19T13:47:37 < karlp> 680ohm is common, you can wank on it for transmission line effects, 1k is probably fine too like in your schematic
2021-10-19T13:48:06 < catphish> anyway, the point is that when the outputs are 0v and 5v relative to ground (so 5v relative to each other)
2021-10-19T13:48:19 < catphish> when ac couples, this gives a 10v p-t-p ac signal
2021-10-19T13:48:37 < karlp> anywya, 10V is still within the range of -7 to +12 v common, like rs485 says,
2021-10-19T13:48:39 < karlp> so that's all fine
2021-10-19T13:48:51 < catphish> but... i'm only driving the lines at 0v and 3v3
2021-10-19T13:48:58 < karlp> but it's still onyl matters whether the difference is A-B >= 0.2V; or a-b <= -0.2V.
2021-10-19T13:49:07 < catphish> if that's the case, i should be fine
2021-10-19T13:49:10 < karlp> because that's what the transceivers are doing.
2021-10-19T13:49:24 < catphish> this value isn't defined (the transceiver at the other end is a black box)
2021-10-19T13:49:34 < catphish> but i suspect you're correct
2021-10-19T13:49:41 < catphish> they'd want to make it as sensitive as possble
2021-10-19T13:49:49 < karlp> no, that's just what rs485 says.
2021-10-19T13:49:55 < catphish> indeed
2021-10-19T13:49:56 < karlp> that's what ~all transceivers do.
2021-10-19T13:50:13 < karlp> it's bsically just a deadzone in the middle, then differential.
2021-10-19T13:50:41 < karlp> you can get a few transcieverfs that do some "safety" fallbacks in the deadzone, rather than "undefined" but that's about all that changes.
2021-10-19T13:50:44 < catphish> the device i'm communicating with isn't rs485, it just smells like rs485, its actual specs could be anything, but it's very likely that it is as you say
2021-10-19T13:51:20 < catphish> i suspect i will stick with this transceiver i'm using anyway, as it seems to work just fine
2021-10-19T13:51:34 < karlp> if it smells like rs485, it's going to be rs485, there's not going to be custom silicon for it.
2021-10-19T13:51:34 < catphish> i was having some instability, but adding the biasing resistors sorted it
2021-10-19T13:51:47 < karlp> biasing resistors are amaze for rs485, total shitstorm without them,
2021-10-19T13:51:59 < karlp> but you need to make sure you're only putting them in at one place.
2021-10-19T13:52:04 < karlp> normally the "master" end.
2021-10-19T13:52:31 < catphish> both ends need biasing, the line is AC coupled at both ends
2021-10-19T13:52:53 < karlp> oh right, you're not using a normal bus line :) so yeah.
2021-10-19T13:53:49 < catphish> yeah, i think i might make these 1n capacitors a little bigger (2n) https://i.imgur.com/sszUFop.png so they allow a little more signal through at my lower voltage
2021-10-19T13:54:04 < catphish> though it's not clear to me if that's necessary
2021-10-19T13:54:11 < karlp> you have got the "fast" transceiver, which may be unnecessary.
2021-10-19T13:54:29 < karlp> you can use slew rate limited ones, if your'e staying below ~500k or something, which are even easier to use.
2021-10-19T13:54:49 < catphish> i suspect it is, the bitrate is 4Mbps manchester (8MHz)
2021-10-19T13:55:00 < karlp> ok, yep, 
2021-10-19T13:55:06 < catphish> hence why this is such a delicate setup :(
2021-10-19T13:55:25 < catphish> now it's biased properly, it seems to be a lot more robust though
2021-10-19T13:55:32 < catphish> so i think i'm happy for now
2021-10-19T13:55:58 < karlp> I wouldn't try making any bigger voltages "just because" though.
2021-10-19T13:56:28 < catphish> well, i was only thinking to match the device at the other end
2021-10-19T13:56:46 < catphish> which transmits at 5v
2021-10-19T13:57:07 < catphish> much as my ac coupling network is just a copy of what's at the other end :)
2021-10-19T13:57:27 < catphish> (apart from the biasing, which is internal to the IC at the other end and guesswork at my end)
2021-10-19T13:58:22 < catphish> this is what i'm copying, the devce i'm talking to uses this setup https://i.imgur.com/CseZGiD.png
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2021-10-19T13:58:54 < catphish> and it defines COMMxx as being 5v levels
2021-10-19T13:59:10 < catphish> apart from that, i have no information :)
2021-10-19T13:59:13 < ventYl> does it have 5V as logic level too?
2021-10-19T13:59:13 < catphish> but it's all working
2021-10-19T14:00:22 < catphish> yes, everything at the other end is 5v
2021-10-19T14:00:39 < ventYl> maybe that's why they went with 5V at rs485 side
2021-10-19T14:00:42 < ventYl> it simplified IC design
2021-10-19T14:00:53 < catphish> that's very likely
2021-10-19T14:01:23 < ventYl> 5V logic, did you get that from time machine?
2021-10-19T14:04:28 < catphish> well it's an ADC designed to measure up to 4.something volts, so maybe that's why
2021-10-19T14:05:49 < catphish> it lives! https://imgur.com/a/HVFUEkx
2021-10-19T14:08:54 < ventYl> LOL, you did more work in a week than whole EV department of my ex-company in two years
2021-10-19T14:23:54 < catphish> lol i HAVE done a lot in the last week, i totally rewrote the firmware for https://openinverter.org/wiki/Lexus_GS450h_Inverter https://github.com/catphish/gs450h/
2021-10-19T14:24:24 < catphish> and engineered an interface for this stackable LG battery module
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2021-10-19T14:26:06 < bitmask> hey baby
2021-10-19T14:26:44 < catphish> i'm also working on some digital and analog gauges (that's someone elses project that i'm helping with) https://imgur.com/a/AxDfSKq and https://i.imgur.com/ug1ihDs.jpg
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2021-10-19T14:27:13 < catphish> the only thing i've not really done this week is slept
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2021-10-19T14:28:03 < catphish> on a political note, this is why we need universal basic income, this shit is way more valuable than sitting in an office doing nothing all day
2021-10-19T14:29:11 < catphish> i must perambulate my canine now
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2021-10-19T15:20:22 < specing> catphish: awesome
2021-10-19T15:20:46 < specing> (not as awesome that it's on github, given that it's proprietary)
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2021-10-19T15:54:53 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/k0tpu53cfeu71.png
2021-10-19T16:00:59 < fenugrec> englishman, good one
2021-10-19T16:09:38 < karlp> lol
2021-10-19T16:09:41 < karlp> sharing that one :)
2021-10-19T16:24:08 < ventYl> Current amount of dead PineTimes (or ruined bundled programming connectors) due to attempted soldering is 4 (update this number when suitable).
2021-10-19T16:24:11 < ventYl> :D
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2021-10-19T17:58:56 < Steffanx> What are you up to mr ventYl ?
2021-10-19T18:05:35 < bitmask> dear fellow scholars
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2021-10-19T18:31:34 < catphish> specing: not as awesome that it's on github?
2021-10-19T18:32:32 < specing> yes
2021-10-19T18:33:00 < catphish> what do you mean by that?
2021-10-19T18:33:13 < catphish> why would freely publishing my work be a bad thing?
2021-10-19T18:35:51 < catphish> though your comment makes me realise the licence has got lost in my fork
2021-10-19T18:37:29 < catphish> hopefully the code for the battery modules will follow soon
2021-10-19T18:37:33 < jpa-> specing: why would proprietary stuff on github be worse than elsewhere?
2021-10-19T18:38:31 < catphish> all my stuff is MIT, though sometimes i forget to publish the licence file
2021-10-19T18:39:23 < specing> catphish: I don't find it ethical to do libre software work on a proprietary platform
2021-10-19T18:39:43 < specing> especially when done in free time
2021-10-19T18:39:45 < catphish> specing: then you're in the wrong channel
2021-10-19T18:39:52 < catphish> stm32 is definitely not open
2021-10-19T18:40:18 < jpa-> isn't the whole hardware for that device proprietary anyway?
2021-10-19T18:40:28 < specing> catphish: lack of alternatives
2021-10-19T18:40:39 < jpa-> so by specing's rules, you shouldn't be doing it anyway - why do they care that it is published on proprietary platform
2021-10-19T18:40:42 < specing> for repository hosts there are libre alternatives, for mcus not really
2021-10-19T18:40:50 < jpa-> there is riscv
2021-10-19T18:40:52 < catphish> i mean, we all like open source, but sometimes (almost always) hardware is closed
2021-10-19T18:41:05 < specing> riscv is just an open ISA, the implementations are mostly proprietary
2021-10-19T18:41:06 < jpa-> not fully open, but at least more open than ARM :)
2021-10-19T18:41:32 < karlp> ranting against github is tilting at windmills. it's like complaining about an image hosting service.
2021-10-19T18:41:54  * specing is not ranting against github
2021-10-19T18:42:00 < specing> I just raised my concern, that is all
2021-10-19T18:42:07 < karlp> that was literealyl the first thing you said
2021-10-19T18:42:08 < catphish> similarly, it'd be lovely if this batter had an open source hardware module on it, but it's essentially just the reference implementation of a TI chip
2021-10-19T18:42:17 < karlp> you instantly complained about the domain of the sharing service that was used...
2021-10-19T18:42:25 < catphish> specing: oh, you mean you don't like publishing on github
2021-10-19T18:42:42 < catphish> i hadn't followed what you meant there
2021-10-19T18:43:42 < catphish> github is great though, i don't see any benefit in the service being open source
2021-10-19T18:44:16 < catphish> as someone who ran one of the largest competitors to github, i love it
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2021-10-19T18:46:54 < catphish> on a less technical note, i really need better seats for my new car, it's like driving a park bench
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2021-10-19T18:47:54 < englishman> wolfspeed is such an awful name
2021-10-19T18:49:50 < karlp> what, like "cree" was better?
2021-10-19T18:50:05 < englishman> i liked it
2021-10-19T18:50:26 < englishman> it's a race of indians from the west coast
2021-10-19T18:50:35 < englishman> very nice people
2021-10-19T18:50:50 < karlp> west coast?
2021-10-19T18:51:06 < karlp> west coast of the lakes maybe
2021-10-19T18:51:17 < karlp> east of the rockies still
2021-10-19T18:51:21 < englishman> according to wikipedo it looks like they got around
2021-10-19T18:52:14 < karlp> wolfspeed is probably a lot better at avoid bullshit search results :)
2021-10-19T18:52:43 < englishman> also got that nice WOLF ticker
2021-10-19T18:53:04 < karlp> better than jap names :)
2021-10-19T18:53:06 < karlp> https://www.ablic.com/en/semicon/news/2019/12/17/news/
2021-10-19T18:53:20 < englishman> they dont even make LEDs anymore ??
2021-10-19T18:53:40 < karlp> sold leds to on iirc
2021-10-19T18:53:57 < karlp> can't remmeber what they kept from cree, was in the press at the time
2021-10-19T18:55:14 < englishman> never heard of SMART Global Holdings before
2021-10-19T18:55:31 < englishman> who did they get spin off of?
2021-10-19T18:56:28 < englishman> hm, independent
2021-10-19T18:58:04 < karlp> looks like a bunch of military shit
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2021-10-19T23:11:56 < catphish> is there any way to make this into valid C? send_command({0x81,0x00,0x02,0x20}, 4);
2021-10-19T23:12:10 < catphish> i want to send a pointer to some literal bytes to a function
2021-10-19T23:14:20 < catphish> i feel like this should be possible, as it's just a string literal
2021-10-19T23:14:54 < mawk> (uint8_t *){0x81, ...}
2021-10-19T23:14:58 < mawk> with an explicit cast
2021-10-19T23:15:04 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-19T23:15:10 < mawk> ok catphish ?
2021-10-19T23:15:15 < mawk> in C++ I don't think it's allowed
2021-10-19T23:15:19 < mawk> I don't remember the rule explicitly
2021-10-19T23:15:21 < mawk> just try it
2021-10-19T23:15:50 < catphish> my compiler doesn't like that
2021-10-19T23:15:55 < mawk> why
2021-10-19T23:15:58 < mawk> your compiler sucks
2021-10-19T23:16:01 < mawk> is it gcc?
2021-10-19T23:16:17 < catphish> initialization of 'uint8_t *' {aka 'unsigned char *'} from 'int' makes pointer from integer without a cast
2021-10-19T23:16:25 < catphish> which suggests it's doing the wrong thin
2021-10-19T23:16:47 < catphish> ie trying to use the bytes *as* a pointer
2021-10-19T23:17:29 < catphish> it likes this though: (uint8_t[]){0x81,0x00,0x02,0x20}
2021-10-19T23:17:36 < mawk> ah I know
2021-10-19T23:17:41 < mawk> it's with a [] not * yes
2021-10-19T23:17:48 < catphish> which is actually a much more correct description of the data type :)
2021-10-19T23:17:50 < catphish> thanks
2021-10-19T23:18:48 < mawk> T [] is the same as T * anyway
2021-10-19T23:18:52 < mawk> all the rest is a lie
2021-10-19T23:19:46 < catphish> i always thought that, then i realised why that's entirely not the case
2021-10-19T23:19:50 < catphish> though i forget why
2021-10-19T23:20:14 < catphish> it definitely matters sometimes
2021-10-19T23:22:13 < ventYl> size of [] is known, size of data pointed to by * is not
2021-10-19T23:25:15 < catphish> i think the big difference is that pointers actually have memory allocated, arrays do not
2021-10-19T23:25:47 -!- kitzman [~kitzman@user/dekenevs] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-19T23:26:42 < catphish> ie a pointer actually exists in memory, whereas an array is just something the compiler hardcodes, the latter can't be modified, nor can you reference its address, modify it, etc
2021-10-19T23:27:00 < ventYl> that isn't true
2021-10-19T23:27:27 < catphish> ie a pointer to an array is just a pointer to its first value
2021-10-19T23:27:44 < catphish> but a pointer to a pointer points to the pointer itself, which exists in memory
2021-10-19T23:27:59 < ventYl> you can write char string[] = "string constant"; and it will be modifiable
2021-10-19T23:28:35 < catphish> in this case you can't do string = some_other_string
2021-10-19T23:28:54 < catphish> because string doesn't have its own memory, only the data it points to does
2021-10-19T23:29:49 < catphish> essentially string[] is a hardcoded pointer, rather then one you can change
2021-10-19T23:30:03 < ventYl> well, string literal doesn't have storage class in same way as numeric literal
2021-10-19T23:30:33 < ventYl> well, talk is cheap, hit vim, try it and prove yourself that this isn't true
2021-10-19T23:30:46 < catphish> all i'm saying that char* can be modified, char[] can not
2021-10-19T23:30:57 < catphish> in the latter case, only the data it points to can be modified
2021-10-19T23:31:39 < catphish> in the former case, you can change it to point to different data
2021-10-19T23:32:56 < ventYl> nope, you can also change the data it contains
2021-10-19T23:33:22 < ventYl> really the only difference is that [] type has size, while * doesn't
2021-10-19T23:33:26 < catphish> well "data data it contains" is the big difference then
2021-10-19T23:33:40 < catphish> * contains a pointer, [] contains the whole string
2021-10-19T23:34:10 < catphish> and in that way they're totally different :)
2021-10-19T23:34:14 < ventYl> and what else would you like to change?
2021-10-19T23:34:28 < ventYl> they are both equal
2021-10-19T23:34:36 < catphish> with with char* you often change the pointer itself
2021-10-19T23:34:47 < catphish> to point to something different
2021-10-19T23:34:50 < ventYl> ummmm
2021-10-19T23:35:04 < catphish> like *pointer++
2021-10-19T23:35:25 < ventYl> *pointer++ will change the data pointer points to
2021-10-19T23:35:29 < catphish> which will return the first character of the string that it points to, but also change the pointer to point to the next char
2021-10-19T23:35:49 < catphish> ventYl: *(pointer++) then, i forget the exact syntax
2021-10-19T23:35:54 < ventYl> ah, operator precende
2021-10-19T23:36:02 < ventYl> i am not 100% sure which has higher one
2021-10-19T23:36:09 < catphish> me neither
2021-10-19T23:36:26 < catphish> but the point is, this changes the pointer to point to something else (the next element)
2021-10-19T23:36:33 < catphish> you can't do that with an array
2021-10-19T23:36:46 < ventYl> but I wrote C compiler 10 years ago and I am pretty sure that array type and pointers behave the same internally
2021-10-19T23:36:52 < ventYl> well, you can't but you can do array[i]
2021-10-19T23:36:55 < catphish> because its address is hardcoded in the machine code
2021-10-19T23:37:02 < ventYl> which is the same as *(pointer + i)
2021-10-19T23:37:04 < catphish> unlike a pointer, which has its own memory
2021-10-19T23:37:33 < catphish> yeah, pointer[i] and array[i] are the same
2021-10-19T23:38:25 < catphish> but again, the pointer has its own memory, and you can change it, the array does not, it is just hardcoded to point to its data
2021-10-19T23:38:36 < ventYl> naturally, you can change the address pointer points to, because that's what pointers are for
2021-10-19T23:38:44 < catphish> right
2021-10-19T23:39:33 < ventYl> well, you've been fooled by reference (in)transparency of C
2021-10-19T23:40:13 < ventYl> pointers are referentially transparent. you know exactly when you are modifying the pointer and when you are modifying the data pointer points to
2021-10-19T23:40:23 < ventYl> other variables on the other hand are referentially opaque
2021-10-19T23:40:28 < ventYl> especially array type
2021-10-19T23:41:22 < ventYl> in all cases, variable names are symbols used in place of addresses
2021-10-19T23:41:24 < catphish> yes indeed, &array == array
2021-10-19T23:41:55 < ventYl> you can't change address of array in memory same as you can't change address of pointer in memory
2021-10-19T23:42:07 < ventYl> but you can change the address pointer points to, which is data contained in pointer
2021-10-19T23:42:08 < catphish> that's also true
2021-10-19T23:42:29 < catphish> yep, it's just messy that an array behaves like a pointer in other ways
2021-10-19T23:42:46 < ventYl> you can then dereference it and access different area of memory
2021-10-19T23:42:57 < ventYl> with other types, dereference is automatic
--- Day changed Wed Oct 20 2021
2021-10-20T00:02:58 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@S01065c7695200fb1.vn.shawcable.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-20T00:03:04 < machinehum> Hello STMers
2021-10-20T00:03:20 < machinehum> What's current limiting VBUS_!EN here https://imgur.com/a/hLmtTAK ?
2021-10-20T00:03:37 < machinehum> The PN junction? So it's basically a diode and lots of current will flow?
2021-10-20T00:05:25 < kakium69> weak pull-up?
2021-10-20T00:05:32 < kakium69> would it do?
2021-10-20T00:05:54 < kakium69> it's nasty nevertheless
2021-10-20T00:06:21 < kakium69> maybe pin current
2021-10-20T00:06:26 < machinehum> Yeah I messed that up
2021-10-20T00:07:27 < kakium69> where would that settle on the pin voltage/current graph?
2021-10-20T00:08:09 < kakium69> and would weak pullup do?
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2021-10-20T00:26:42 < Mangy_Dog>  important security news RE KiCad websites.... https://forum.kicad.info/t/warning-about-potentially-malicious-software/31521
2021-10-20T00:35:12 < catphish> how irritating
2021-10-20T00:46:36 < Steffanx> Shit happens 
2021-10-20T00:54:06 < sauce> machinehum: substitute an nfet
2021-10-20T00:54:31 < fenugrec> whoa reading the backlog I thought "crap how did I get on ##c ??"
2021-10-20T00:57:02 < machinehum> sauce: lol what?
2021-10-20T00:57:19 < sauce> replace q2 with an nfet
2021-10-20T00:57:29 < kitzman> sorry quite new to using stm32 without any ide. i'm trying to bootstrap a stm32f0discovery project. basically i copy/pasted a ld-script and wrote the startup code. the problem i'm not passing the __libc_init_array. the start address for looking for pointers is correct. however, the end address is wrong: when gdb'ing it, i noticed that at the beginning of the function, it finds the address, however it stores in the stack what finds at
2021-10-20T00:57:30 < kitzman> that address... i think there might be something wrong with my ld script. could somebody lend a hand if they think it's not gonna take long? 
2021-10-20T00:57:44 < machinehum> Oh right, I could
2021-10-20T01:01:00 < sauce> kitzman: post it
2021-10-20T01:14:47 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-10-20T01:15:55 < kitzman> https://bin.disroot.org/?f9ced4913d576376#8tvFDEuvrwev2uSD1dkdQjoLu73ndFKz7TgNKkGJhoEJ
2021-10-20T01:16:00 < kitzman>  https://bin.disroot.org/?e7c4da55e1ba2a30#FqNzYEaAqbgwC1ombL9dnzGq1LHmz5FkwReJ6pP2y3dj
2021-10-20T01:16:03 < kitzman>  https://bin.disroot.org/?29443a16e2919141#CvXx7GcR3g8CnXihVJgiAwF2JVQgpAFe3frN7FmGiKJC
2021-10-20T01:16:48 < kitzman> ugh, in the first one there's the startup, in the second one my ld script, and in the 3rd one what i think is the relevant gdb output.
2021-10-20T01:16:53 < sauce> first two are duplicates
2021-10-20T01:16:54 < zyp> you posted the linker script twice
2021-10-20T01:17:28 < kitzman> https://bin.disroot.org/?a446f14bf2fbadfb#8yNguY9HQTaVJL9tULBTqXZzUn1Be4TNatExaTPWmrPn
2021-10-20T01:17:32 < kitzman> my bad
2021-10-20T01:17:32 < zyp> linker script looks correct
2021-10-20T01:17:48 < zyp> oh, assembly
2021-10-20T01:17:56 < zyp> why are you not writing startup code in C?
2021-10-20T01:18:06 < zyp> cortex-m is specificly designed to allow it
2021-10-20T01:18:30 < kitzman> i'll try it. saw most examples either using this or using asm in c.
2021-10-20T01:18:56 < kitzman> but there was one instructing gcc to use O0 so the code does not go through some things
2021-10-20T01:19:26 < zyp> something like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/startup/entry.cpp
2021-10-20T01:20:01 < zyp> hmm, startup code is just calling library function, so that should be fine
2021-10-20T01:21:38 < kitzman> nice, i'll learn more about attributes this way.
2021-10-20T01:22:13 < zyp> I'm not sure it's entirely correct to declare it naked :)
2021-10-20T01:22:54 < kitzman> i'll look it up
2021-10-20T01:22:58 < kitzman> i tried debugging the CopyDataInit as well, but i think that also -seem- to work, but i guess i can check it again with more care.
2021-10-20T01:23:00 < kitzman> idk
2021-10-20T01:23:35 < zyp> it'd work the same in any case, the naked attribute just ensures it doesn't bother saving any callee-saved registers it uses, so it potentially saves a few words of stack
2021-10-20T01:24:03 < zyp> kitzman, what's your issue anyway?
2021-10-20T01:24:23 < kitzman> nice. i read somewhere at using O0 also makes the compiler avoid malloc or something.
2021-10-20T01:24:35 < zyp> nope, that's entirely unrelated
2021-10-20T01:24:52 < kitzman> well, __libc_init_array doesn't work. it tries to do __init_array_end - __init_array_start and the first one is wrong
2021-10-20T01:25:07 < zyp> wrong how?
2021-10-20T01:26:53 < zyp> according to your paste they look correct to me, start and end are respectively 8005fb0 and 8005fb8, so you've got two init functions there
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2021-10-20T01:28:56 < kitzman> yes it should be that - but the end is taken as some address from the ram (0x20000008)
2021-10-20T01:29:03 < zyp> the disassembly is incomplete, I can't tell what the function is expecting to grab from the constant pool
2021-10-20T01:29:33 < zyp> can you paste another disassembly of the whole function with constant pool and all?
2021-10-20T01:29:55 < zyp> (or just give me the .elf so I can disassemble it myself)
2021-10-20T01:30:00 < kitzman> i might be terribly wrong, but from what it looks like, the subs at +20 is https://github.com/eblot/newlib/blob/master/newlib/libc/misc/init.c#L33
2021-10-20T01:30:59 < zyp> maybe, but without the entire function I can't tell :)
2021-10-20T01:31:01 < sauce> is that the libc implementation youre using?
2021-10-20T01:31:46 < zyp> likely
2021-10-20T01:32:14 < kitzman> yes (actually newlib nano but i think the function would look the same , i'll check)
2021-10-20T01:32:14 < kitzman> https://upload.disroot.org/r/yeFWovTw#dxUkpf2DIw8reAmfIOP8jT7rcqTVf2Hk8+y6f55NY4w=
2021-10-20T01:32:23 < zyp> looking
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2021-10-20T01:33:16 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ET8AS
2021-10-20T01:34:12 < bitmask> https://usa.banggood.com/HT-201-Mini-Mobile-Phone-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-Thermal-Infrared-Imager-Thermal-Camera-p-1561116.html
2021-10-20T01:34:14 < bitmask> someone buy me that
2021-10-20T01:38:22 < zyp> hmm, it's not immediately obvious to me wtf this code is doing :)
2021-10-20T01:39:30 < zyp> it seems to be putting pc-relatve offsets in the constant pool which is also loaded pc-relative
2021-10-20T01:39:37 < zyp> are you building this with -fPIC or something?
2021-10-20T01:40:15 < kitzman> hm, yes i am.
2021-10-20T01:40:39 < zyp> then again, this is a library function that should be prebuilt
2021-10-20T01:40:40 < qyx> did I just read -fPIC
2021-10-20T01:43:28 < zyp> anyway, the copy loops are at the bottom, lines 29-33 for preinit and 34-38 for init
2021-10-20T01:44:30 < zyp> preinit loop expects start addr in r6 and index in r7
2021-10-20T01:44:58 < zyp> and count in r4
2021-10-20T01:46:24 < zyp> so yeah, you're right, line 12 and 13 is the subtraction to get the count
2021-10-20T01:47:08 < zyp> 12 subtracts and 13 divides by 4 since you're subtracting pointers to 4-byte elements
2021-10-20T01:50:41 < zyp> ah, right
2021-10-20T01:51:38 < zyp> the addresses it's deriving from the constant pool are ram addrs, so it's probably redirecting through pointers stored in .data
2021-10-20T01:52:01 < zyp> and if it doesn't work, it probably means you're not initializing .data correctly, so it ends up reading garbage
2021-10-20T01:52:35 < zyp> (I've managed to initialize .data with an offset before, you get lots of weird behavior when it's not reading what it's supposed to)
2021-10-20T01:58:14 < kitzman> hm, you're right - the data around that pointer seems weird as well. that's a good pointer, i'll look into it
2021-10-20T01:58:15 < zyp> not .data, it's doing lookups in .got
2021-10-20T01:58:32 < zyp> this is all PIC stuff that you're not handling properly at all
2021-10-20T01:58:42 < zyp> I suggest just turning off PIC
2021-10-20T01:58:59 < kitzman> hmm.
2021-10-20T01:59:23 -!- benishor [~benishor@scene.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-10-20T02:02:12 < zyp> I mean, you have .got stored in RAM, but nothing is initializing it, so I suppose it just happens to somewhat work because your debugger is initializing it, so it'll probably fail worse as soon as you power it on and try starting directly from flash :)
2021-10-20T02:08:50 < kitzman> hm, interesting, now it's thinking that there's no init array start.(or it's at 0xffetc)
2021-10-20T02:09:11 < kitzman> but i think that's a good pointer either way
2021-10-20T02:14:57 < kitzman> ah ^^ thank you. i'll look tomorrow more over the .data initialization and try to see what's happening there.
2021-10-20T02:15:08 < zyp> it's not .data initialization
2021-10-20T02:15:18 < zyp> it's .got that you're not initializing at all
2021-10-20T02:15:48 < zyp> unless you have a really good reason to build with -fPIC, turn it off and get rid of all the pointless complexity it adds :)
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2021-10-20T02:32:20 < kitzman> alright, i'll keep fPIC out ^^ thank you. i'll look more into the .got section tomorrow, i guess i'll just have to copy it on startup
2021-10-20T02:35:29 < kitzman> (i'll see)
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2021-10-20T13:47:32 < karlp> nice, digikey emails abotu new things.  zero stock of them, 52weeks lead time.
2021-10-20T13:47:35 < karlp> like, what was the point?!
2021-10-20T13:48:14 < qyx> mouser is the same
2021-10-20T13:48:21 < qyx> oh yeah L5 and U5
2021-10-20T14:05:38 < ventYl> karlp: marketing representatives are freaking out that they must. send. newsletters. yours digikey, with love <3
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2021-10-20T14:15:32 < jpa-> also every distributor has those google ads about "XYZ123 is in stock at Mouser!!!!" except it is not, has not been for months, and will not be in years
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2021-10-20T14:32:42 < drzacek> when do you guys think it will go back to normal?
2021-10-20T14:32:49 < drzacek> 2022 seems overly optimistic 
2021-10-20T14:33:19 < drzacek> some say that we might have problems with parts availability even till 2025.
2021-10-20T14:37:15 < jpa-> there have been problems with parts availability before the pandemic, there will be parts availability problems in the future also
2021-10-20T14:38:10 < qyx> we will use wire wound resistors, plate capacitors and vacuum tubes
2021-10-20T14:38:25 < qyx> or paper film caps
2021-10-20T14:38:56 < drzacek> but it was never as extreme, I think
2021-10-20T14:39:04 < englishman> it might last longer for automotive what with their ancient chips
2021-10-20T14:39:14 < drzacek> right now it seems like nothing is available. We have problems ordering phoenix contact stuff at work
2021-10-20T14:39:35 < englishman> even Andon has months of delays
2021-10-20T14:39:56 < qyx> pc is probably the result of electricity prices in .de
2021-10-20T14:40:03 < englishman> delays in coppe deliveries
2021-10-20T14:40:07 < englishman> copper
2021-10-20T14:40:09 < qyx> alu too
2021-10-20T14:40:13 < englishman> platinum
2021-10-20T14:40:28 < qyx> and heh, we are slowly stopping adblue production in .sk
2021-10-20T14:41:06 < englishman> time to innovate some def bypasses and sell them for $500
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2021-10-20T15:36:27 < ventYl> well, lack of automotive parts may speed up process of obsoleting processes
2021-10-20T15:37:17 < ventYl> get that fucking unsupported IBM clickely clicky click tool which you have to run in WinXP virtual machine away, you can't get MCU it would run on anyway
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2021-10-20T17:02:00 < drzacek> ventYl, but that would mean the companies would have to learn new stuff. and longtime workers don't like that. and it's costly
2021-10-20T17:03:01 < ventYl> drzacek: I know, I have recently left one such automotive company
2021-10-20T17:03:49 < ventYl> but they have, they are slowly losing track and it costs them moneyz, because some OEMs already renewed their processes and trying to catch up using 20yrs old processes almost universally means you'll spend more money than OEM is willing to pay
2021-10-20T17:04:44 < ventYl> you can quote one or two such projects to keep your name in the bussiness, but sooner or later you'll go into red numbers
2021-10-20T17:05:30 < fenugrec> heh component selection is no longer "best compromise of price, features, ease of use etc" but 99% "what will be in stock for the next X years"
2021-10-20T17:06:17 < ventYl> automotive was historically using "can we still get it for one or two model years" parts?
2021-10-20T17:07:22 < ventYl> VW/Audi/Blaupunkt/Bosch Chorus/Concert stereo. Using Motorolla MCU. First batch 1995. That MCU was EOL, not recommended for new designs since 1993
2021-10-20T17:07:32 < drzacek> fenugrec, given that what you have NOW might be gone in a month, it's hard
2021-10-20T17:08:15 < ventYl> project I've been working on the same. company was securing deliveries of EOL MCUs for our project and when they got nope from maker they even tried to make dog eyes, like "really? not even single year?"
2021-10-20T17:08:38 < drzacek> actually we are in similar situation :( 
2021-10-20T17:08:45 < ventYl> are you automotive?
2021-10-20T17:08:48 < fenugrec> drzacek, no doubt... happy to not be involved in any such
2021-10-20T17:08:49 < drzacek> we use legacy stuff to repair legacy machines
2021-10-20T17:08:57 < drzacek> ventYl, no, CNC machines
2021-10-20T17:09:30 < drzacek> but we don't build new electronics anymore (well, we do, but not in this case). A CNC controller has super old components, and there simply ISN'T anything that is compatible with ISA bus nowadays
2021-10-20T17:09:58 < ventYl> well, repair of legacy machines is completely different situation. you have something already in production, which still may be productive. lack of $2 part, which in turn means replacement of $1000 board is not a big deal
2021-10-20T17:10:01 < drzacek> so we also scrap small batches of what we can find. At some point we just gonna tell customers "we can't repair it, buy new one"
2021-10-20T17:10:27 < ventYl> couldn't you simply bitbang ISA? it should be trivial, shouldn't it?
2021-10-20T17:10:33 < drzacek> but buying new one would require to upgrade the motordrive, and that thing is expensive - usually would cost more than the machine is worth, so instead of upgrading they would just scrap it
2021-10-20T17:11:14 < drzacek> ventYl, no idea, not my field of competences. kinda
2021-10-20T17:11:33 < fenugrec> installing a new controller in an CNC is also a pain to reconfigure, downtime due to iron out bugs etc... 
2021-10-20T17:11:43 < tct> yes
2021-10-20T17:12:10 < fenugrec> fixed some old 90's VFDs just to avoid that, even though there are very affordable VFDs available
2021-10-20T17:14:08 < ventYl> ISA is like 16bit parallel shit, strobe, read/write/in/out. Shouldn't be that hard to make some ISA-to-whatever adaptor.
2021-10-20T17:14:42 < drzacek> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas-Chip this thing alone paid for my wage last few years
2021-10-20T17:15:46 < fenugrec> it also has IRQ, so you can't just software-bitbang it... sure FPGA etc, but it's a 5V (mixed 3.3V too ? I forget) ifc so you need level shifters etc. Not an afternoon project
2021-10-20T17:15:48 < ventYl> is that connected via one-wire?
2021-10-20T17:16:04 < fenugrec> drzacek, ah, the bane of all old Tek scopes : ))
2021-10-20T17:16:47 < fenugrec> honorable mention for NiCd battery-backed RAM holding irreplaceable firmware / calibration
2021-10-20T17:17:01 < drzacek> there were some attempts to replace them, or hack them, but they all were unreliable
2021-10-20T17:17:18 < ventYl> fenugrec: hm, IRQ is just one additional output signal going into IRQ handler chip
2021-10-20T17:17:35 < ventYl> and yeah, level shifters will probably be the most complicated part as they need to be bidirectional
2021-10-20T17:17:56 < drzacek> it's the CPU card that breaks, we're not gonna reinvent a PC to work with old ISA modules
2021-10-20T17:18:21 < ventYl> ah, I assumed that CPU part is ok
2021-10-20T17:18:26 < ventYl> then no, scrap it
2021-10-20T17:18:39 < drzacek> sticking to legacy stuff is pain
2021-10-20T17:18:47 < ventYl> ISA must be like late '80s
2021-10-20T17:18:57 < drzacek> stuff that is ancient in end-customer world is still active in industry
2021-10-20T17:18:59 < ventYl> pretty much where german automotive industry is nowadays
2021-10-20T17:19:14 < drzacek> german industry is "conservative" af
2021-10-20T17:19:24 < tct> that's okay.
2021-10-20T17:19:29 < drzacek> kinda hoped covid gonna hit them harder so they switch to homeoffice
2021-10-20T17:19:31 < drzacek> nope
2021-10-20T17:19:41 < ventYl> some of them did, at least partially
2021-10-20T17:19:42 < drzacek> still gotta come to work sitting in front of pc for few hours
2021-10-20T17:20:00 < ventYl> and legacy nature of german automotive industry can make me a shitload of money
2021-10-20T17:20:02 < tct> would you want your nuclear power plant to be operated by some node.js based electron packaged IoT device running python and systemd?
2021-10-20T17:20:06 < ventYl> if I get good drug dealer
2021-10-20T17:20:12 < tct> ah, we talk automotive, sorry
2021-10-20T17:21:09 < ventYl> tct: I would like to see it tested by something more sane than FMEA process used to make sure that pantofel won't hurt granddad due to remains of broken needle was forgot in it
2021-10-20T17:21:24 < tct> lol
2021-10-20T17:21:26 < ventYl> and also
2021-10-20T17:21:34 < ventYl> automotive doesn't know term security
2021-10-20T17:21:40 < ventYl> they fucking change it into safety
2021-10-20T17:21:59 < ventYl> thus, ISO standard describing security is called SOTIF - *Safety* of the intended functionality
2021-10-20T17:22:13 < fenugrec> drzacek, no luck with even daughtercard-style Dallas replacements ? IIRC some cypress ICs were compatible and acually available, BYO battery
2021-10-20T17:22:34 < karlp> I like how that page only exists in german.
2021-10-20T17:22:42 < ventYl> :>
2021-10-20T17:23:25 < drzacek> fenugrec, oh?
2021-10-20T17:23:41 < karlp> is that a rtc module with battery included inside the packaging, am I understanding it right?
2021-10-20T17:23:51 < drzacek> karlp, yes
2021-10-20T17:24:04 < drzacek> there were some product that tried to provide alternative with accessible battery
2021-10-20T17:24:07 < drzacek> but not compatible
2021-10-20T17:24:07 < tct> talking of that... yesterday I was in Elsdorf. That is one MASSIVE hole those germans dug...
2021-10-20T17:25:00  * drzacek hides
2021-10-20T17:25:07 < drzacek> thats dangerously closely to my location
2021-10-20T17:25:24 < tct> :>
2021-10-20T17:25:27 < tct> Aachen?
2021-10-20T17:25:27 < drzacek> seeing the garzweiler every day
2021-10-20T17:26:52 < tct> very nice.
2021-10-20T17:27:34 < ventYl> is it larger than that Russian diamond mine in Norilsk?
2021-10-20T17:28:52 < karlp> that's only famously deep right? it's not actualyl very big area wide?
2021-10-20T17:29:13 < ventYl> I'd expect it is at least twice as wide as deep
2021-10-20T17:29:17 < fenugrec> drzacek, can't find it anymore, and scambay sellers carefully hide the IC, but https://www.ebay.ca/itm/302913384290 . Possibly not compatible with all flavors of DSxxxx
2021-10-20T17:29:24 < ventYl> which would still make it ~2km wide
2021-10-20T17:29:24 < drzacek> https://github.com/necroware/nw12887 hmm
2021-10-20T17:30:05 < fenugrec> I remember definitely some Cy parts probably somewhere in https://www.cypress.com/products/nvsram-nonvolatile-sram , as well as some Bq** stuff like that nw12887
2021-10-20T17:30:08 < ventYl> Necroware, says it all
2021-10-20T17:30:40 < karlp> ventYl: found some sources that that diamond mine is only 3rd deepest, not even close to biggest sideways :)
2021-10-20T17:33:03 < ventYl> karlp: I think that it is interesting for how close to the city limits it is rather than for it's size. I can hear it: "Dima, don't even think about going to play into mine! And be back home before temperature drops below -20*C"
2021-10-20T17:34:03 < tct> ventYl, I think you might want to check out some satelite footage of Elsdorf if you're interested in "how close it is": 
2021-10-20T17:34:15 < tct> https://goo.gl/maps/CdUYkw7ZJ6ZWmxme8
2021-10-20T17:34:56 < ventYl> tct: I have checked satelite footage of that one flooded city. First photos only shown sunken village without details of where it sank. My bet was that it sank into mine. Later it turned out to be right bet.
2021-10-20T17:35:30 < ventYl> in 20 km radius from that sunken village, there was like dozen of other mines, one large having border of national part going straight through it
2021-10-20T17:35:54 < ventYl> s/part/reservation/
2021-10-20T17:36:05 < fenugrec> pff, this is better : mine is 1 street away : https://www.google.com/maps/@48.13163,-78.1273246,3108m/data=!3m1!1e3
2021-10-20T17:36:36 < tct> wtf fenugrec 
2021-10-20T17:37:04 < tct> "Val-d'Or" 
2021-10-20T17:37:05 < tct> I see...
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2021-10-20T17:38:05 < fenugrec> at least the commute must be pretty easy. 5 min walk
2021-10-20T17:38:43 < ventYl> tct: heh, that's it. in some map I've seen national park borders going straight through it
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2021-10-20T17:39:21 < ventYl> Burgewald Blatzheimer Buge
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2021-10-20T17:39:26 < ventYl> the fuck, nothing is saint
2021-10-20T17:39:27 < ventYl> *coal must flow*
2021-10-20T17:40:02 < karlp> it's not even good coal is it? it's just lignite?
2021-10-20T17:40:08 < ventYl> most probably
2021-10-20T17:40:21 < ventYl> but you can make gasoline out of it and power Messerschmitds
2021-10-20T17:40:26 < karlp> lol
2021-10-20T17:41:36 < drzacek> no no
2021-10-20T17:41:41 < drzacek> you see, germany wants to be green
2021-10-20T17:41:49 < drzacek> so they closed nuclear powerplants
2021-10-20T17:41:59 < drzacek> and let brown coal mines operate for another 20 years
2021-10-20T17:45:11 < ventYl> that sounds more like brown rather than green
2021-10-20T17:45:20 < ventYl> even poland goes other way around
2021-10-20T17:47:15 < drzacek> https://www.dw.com/en/poland-pm-defiant-after-eu-imposes-large-fine-over-coal-mine/a-59245380
2021-10-20T17:47:17 < drzacek> you sure?
2021-10-20T17:47:42 < tct> drzacek, I found it funny how you slaped wind turbines on every available spot around those coal mines - what a german thing to do :D
2021-10-20T17:47:48 < tct> "look at how much we want to be green"
2021-10-20T17:48:01 < drzacek> well it wasn't me
2021-10-20T17:48:18 < tct> so 1 PIMMEL
2021-10-20T17:48:23 < drzacek> I see it more as "okay, the coal might be gone soon, so we need to invest in other stuff to stay afloat/keep milking energy money in the future"
2021-10-20T17:48:36 < drzacek> or "government is gonna pay us 30% of the investition if we build them windmills"
2021-10-20T17:48:56 < tct> what's wrong with nuclear power plants? they are extremely reliable, especially if you prevent people from being stupid and IMHO they are amost the greeneast solutions we have.
2021-10-20T17:49:13 < drzacek> don't ask me, i'm all in for nucular
2021-10-20T17:49:27 < ventYl> drzacek: they plan to build nuclear power plant, I am sure
2021-10-20T17:49:29 < tct> but yeah, swissland is obviously doing the same thing (minus the coal, ofc). At least we have 70% hydro power (or something in that ball-park). I think my area is even >70%
2021-10-20T17:49:52 < drzacek> nice
2021-10-20T17:52:53 < karlp> heh, hydro being renewable is a bit of a scam of it's own of course, but that's not very popular....
2021-10-20T17:53:05 < tct> I assume if karlp gets a cold butt he simply spreads his cheeks over a geysir.
2021-10-20T17:53:57 < karlp> iirc, one here they even modelled only a ~70 year lifetime before it would silt over completely.
2021-10-20T17:54:01 < karlp> but sure, "renewabl"
2021-10-20T17:54:23 < tct> well, one would argue that solar energy isn't exactly renewable either :p
2021-10-20T17:54:27 < tct> but I get your point, ofc.
2021-10-20T17:54:47 < karlp> and the current claim here is that we should do any and all heavy industry that anyone wants to, and it's "iceland's duty" to do the heavy work here, using our "clean energy" 
2021-10-20T17:55:09 < karlp> well, solar's more "limitless" rather than "renewable" :)
2021-10-20T17:56:14 < drzacek> well solar energy is renewable, harvesting it is another thing
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2021-10-20T18:06:17 < qyx> are karlplanders gonna cool down the Earth?
2021-10-20T18:15:30 < karlp> what?
2021-10-20T18:15:55 < qyx> with pumping your icelandic free energy
2021-10-20T18:15:57 < karlp> oh, no, not even fucking close, it's just market spam from people trying to justify why they should build heavy industry here.
2021-10-20T18:16:33 < karlp> even if we dam every last river and every single proposed or talked about plant, it's still a drop int he water compared to even just germany's production alone
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2021-10-20T18:55:44 < ventYl> well, hydro is kinda renewable as long as you don't drain your glaciers
2021-10-20T18:56:15 < ventYl> i recently saw power bill, which locally states composition of sources used to procude electricity
2021-10-20T18:56:18 < ventYl> we are quite green
2021-10-20T18:57:01 < ventYl> 70%+ nuclear, 15-ish% hydro, 11% fossil, rest was biomass and photovoltaic, both around 1%
2021-10-20T19:23:21 < sauce> the environmental impact of hydroelectricity is quite significant
2021-10-20T19:23:36 < sauce> no co2 but it has a huge impact on watersheds and ecosystems
2021-10-20T19:35:20 < karlp> ventYl: no, the dams actualyl silt up.
2021-10-20T19:35:22 < karlp> they have a lifetime.
2021-10-20T19:36:09 < karlp> the construction impact is somehwat shared by many power plant constructions, though dams tend to have much mor efar reaching impacts in the ecosystem than a point plant.
2021-10-20T19:37:21 < karlp> wrt to glaciers melting, I read some papers on it here, wrt to specific topographies, and it's rather complex modelling.  you get more water as it melts away, but whether the final point is higher or lower is quite hard to predict, based on underlying groundshapes.
2021-10-20T19:37:41 < karlp> some of them modelled out here as ending up with _higher_ final product sans glacier, othyers noticeably less.
2021-10-20T19:38:00 < karlp> you've also trying to model how the presence of the glacier affects rain formation and catchment too.
2021-10-20T19:38:17 < karlp> but that's glaciers melting, not really what I was getting at with "hydro isn't entirely renewable..."
2021-10-20T19:38:50 < englishman> in the big picture of things, nothing is renewable
2021-10-20T19:39:21 < englishman> we only have 5 billion years left with this sun before we have to find another one.
2021-10-20T19:42:12 < ventYl> karlp: I mean, given the fact that communists built network of large dams, which totals at 15% of our consumption, it doesn't make sense to build any other smaller dams, because the yield will be minimal
2021-10-20T19:43:13 < sauce> and then how much longer till entropy takes over
2021-10-20T19:44:09 < ventYl> well, maybe the universe is already shrinking and heading towards great <whateverterm for shrink into single point>
2021-10-20T19:44:17 < ventYl> but due to the nature of entropy we will never learn
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2021-10-20T20:51:18 < catphish> can't we just ban the consumption of energy, then there's no need to worry about where it comes from
2021-10-20T20:54:29 < catphish> got my fibe re-installed today for neatness, gonna be nice once i mount my router on the wall https://i.imgur.com/6Y7qfJM.jpg
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2021-10-20T21:24:29 < kakium69> hello winter crew
2021-10-20T21:36:05 < ventYl> no winter yet
2021-10-20T21:41:43 < kakium69> yes winter
2021-10-20T21:41:58 < kakium69> for today
2021-10-20T21:42:03 < kakium69> tommorow back to autumn
2021-10-20T21:49:44 < ventYl> do you have snow?
2021-10-20T21:51:48 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-20T21:52:07 < ventYl> free cocaine
2021-10-20T21:52:17 < kakium69> 10-15cm
2021-10-20T21:53:06 < Steffanx> Time to get this ice glider out of the barn kakium69?
2021-10-20T21:54:10 < kakium69> I took volkswagium for a spin today after just letting it rot for the summer
2021-10-20T21:54:31 < ventYl> that's not proper tool for spinning
2021-10-20T21:54:38 < ventYl> you should get skoda
2021-10-20T21:55:00 < ventYl> RWD one
2021-10-20T21:55:33 < kakium69> just weld mid diff and remove front axles
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2021-10-20T21:59:12 < kakium69> maybe fun for summer
2021-10-20T21:59:27 < kakium69> but suboptimal for winter
2021-10-20T21:59:31 < ventYl> I am not sure if gearbox will survive that
2021-10-20T21:59:39 < ventYl> and/or if it is even possible with haldex
2021-10-20T22:00:03 < kakium69> torsen all the way
2021-10-20T22:00:13 < ventYl> ah, so it's passat
2021-10-20T22:00:22 < kakium69> ye
2021-10-20T22:00:39 < ventYl> that'll work
2021-10-20T22:00:46 < ventYl> but no need to do that
2021-10-20T22:00:52 < ventYl> somehow I assumed it is FWD
2021-10-20T22:00:57 < kakium69> man I regret not upgrading to 4litre v8
2021-10-20T22:01:07 < ventYl> it would be too heavy on front
2021-10-20T22:01:22 < kakium69> I think it's not that different
2021-10-20T22:01:32 < kakium69> it's W8
2021-10-20T22:01:57 < ventYl> even 2.0 16V vs. 2.3 10V in Audi makes difference, which can be felt
2021-10-20T22:02:41 < kakium69> 2.8 V6 vs 4.0 W8 can be felt through wallet
2021-10-20T22:05:28 < kakium69> buy it at 300k km just pull the engine out first and rebuild it
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2021-10-20T22:07:05 < ventYl> what finnish for "damn fucking window, why did you close?" ?
2021-10-20T22:07:55 < ventYl> no need to buy another car. I even got rid of one
2021-10-20T22:08:48 < kakium69> "vitun kirottu ikkuna, miksi sulkeuduit?"
2021-10-20T22:10:08 < Steffanx> no perkele satana?
2021-10-20T22:10:31 < Steffanx> vittu vittu
2021-10-20T22:12:33 < kakium69> :p
2021-10-20T22:13:47 < englishman> fenugrec: what is a cable gland in french? i dont fucking believe google when it says "presse-étoupe"
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2021-10-20T22:19:08 < zyp> englishman, in norwegian they are cable nipples
2021-10-20T22:19:40 < englishman> nice
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2021-10-20T22:30:15 < Steffanx> even phoenix calls it that in french mr englishman
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2021-10-20T22:30:33 < Steffanx> and wikipedia agrees "Presse-étoupes en électricité."
2021-10-20T22:31:11 < englishman> what do europeans know about french
2021-10-20T22:31:21 < zyp> me? nothing
2021-10-20T22:31:28 < zyp> what's the literal translation of that?
2021-10-20T22:31:39 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français!!
2021-10-20T22:31:42 < Steffanx> et toi?
2021-10-20T22:31:59 < englishman> étoupe is wick like for a cannon or fuse
2021-10-20T22:32:13 < englishman> so presse-étoupe is the seal used to keep your primer dry while you light the wick
2021-10-20T22:32:30 < Steffanx> What does an englishman know about french?
2021-10-20T22:32:31 < zyp> haha
2021-10-20T22:34:52 < Steffanx> Je voudrais deux croissants s'il vous plaît
2021-10-20T22:35:21 < englishman> 🥐🥐
2021-10-20T22:35:31 < qyx> oh croissants
2021-10-20T22:35:47 < qyx> much hunger
2021-10-20T22:36:13 < Steffanx> They tried to teach me french at high school. They didnt really succeed
2021-10-20T22:36:23 < qyx> same here with german
2021-10-20T22:36:39 < Steffanx> yes german too
2021-10-20T22:37:13 < ventYl> i tried german twice
2021-10-20T22:37:16 < ventYl> failed both attempts
2021-10-20T22:37:43 < kakium69> Steffanx: you can still impress people who don't know french at all
2021-10-20T22:38:04 < Steffanx> Dutch is more similar to Deutsch. Which is nice and sucks at the same time
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2021-10-20T22:38:25 < Steffanx> is finnish even similar to anything mr kakium69?
2021-10-20T22:39:22 < kakium69> no
2021-10-20T22:40:30 < ventYl> they tell, it is similar to hungarian
2021-10-20T22:40:31 < Steffanx> Except to gibberish :D
2021-10-20T22:40:32 < ventYl> but they lie
2021-10-20T22:40:36 < ventYl> Steffanx: :D
2021-10-20T22:42:01 < kakium69> okay I lied estonian is pretty similar
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2021-10-20T22:43:08 < kakium69> it sounds like ciphered finnish
2021-10-20T22:43:29 < kakium69> some words are same to throw you off
2021-10-20T22:43:45 < kakium69> when the meaning is something else
2021-10-20T22:44:50 < ventYl> isn't finnish ciphered by default?
2021-10-20T22:45:09 < ventYl> something like, let's say perl. the only computer language which looks the same before and after compilation into bytecode
2021-10-20T22:47:39 < kakium69> weird stuff
2021-10-20T22:50:09 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages#/media/File:Indo-European_Language_Family_Branches_in_Eurasia.png
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2021-10-20T23:05:23 < mawk> I have a weird phenomenon with my board
2021-10-20T23:05:37 < mawk> when I solder wires to some UART line between my mcu and my NB-IoT module, the whole thing stops working
2021-10-20T23:05:46 < mawk> even when the wires are left disconnected
2021-10-20T23:05:59 < mawk> I don't know what that means
2021-10-20T23:06:08 < mawk> are the uart lins almost floating and soldering something to them messes it up?
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2021-10-20T23:06:32 < mawk> when I desolder the wires the board starts working again
2021-10-20T23:07:18 < kakium69> does the MCU or the NB-IoT thing stop?
2021-10-20T23:08:08 < mawk> the mcu
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2021-10-20T23:08:31 < mawk> the whole board stops talking when something is soldered to these test pads
2021-10-20T23:09:51 < kakium69> what mcu
2021-10-20T23:09:53 < qyx> one problem is software not handling such case
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2021-10-20T23:13:31 < kakium69> it might be receiving noise
2021-10-20T23:14:19 < kakium69> uart throws interrupt that is not handled correctly and completelly
2021-10-20T23:15:12 < qyx> yes but that would mean RX line is not driven properly by the nbiot thing or there is a missing pullup or whatever
2021-10-20T23:15:28 < qyx> it should not float in any case
2021-10-20T23:15:37 < kakium69> ah ofc
2021-10-20T23:16:05 < qyx> thats the second problem I forgot to mention
2021-10-20T23:25:50 < mawk> stm32l1 or something kakium69 
2021-10-20T23:26:18 < mawk> qyx: even if there was garbage on the nbiot uart the software should still work
2021-10-20T23:26:31 < mawk> I checked if the board was working using its uart output on another test pad; I didn't try debugging it
2021-10-20T23:26:55 < mawk> mainly because the debug header is not accessible when the board is mounted (the board is a daughter board that needs to be plugged into another board)
2021-10-20T23:28:28 < mawk> but if something in the circuit changes because wires are soldered that could only mean pins are floating right?
2021-10-20T23:31:11 < qyx> if they are not connected to anything else, then probably yes
2021-10-20T23:33:47 < mawk> yeah not connected to anything
2021-10-20T23:33:51 < mawk> just floating around in the breeze
2021-10-20T23:33:59 < mawk> I tried shortening the length of these wires but it didn't change anything
2021-10-20T23:34:57 < qyx> what about adding pullups to both tx and rx
2021-10-20T23:35:29 < mawk> I don't think it's a software problem, more like an issue on the pcb
2021-10-20T23:36:26 < Steffanx> if wire can do it, then i wonder what your finger can do
2021-10-20T23:36:34 < mawk> the guy who designed it is on vacation
2021-10-20T23:36:49 < qyx> grab your soldering irong and play a bit
2021-10-20T23:37:11 < mawk> yes I'll try that
2021-10-20T23:37:13 < Steffanx> you can read schematics right, mawk?
2021-10-20T23:37:15 < mawk> it would be annoying if it's a bug on the pcb, we have thousands of this board already made
2021-10-20T23:37:22 < qyx> even a software guy should be able to solder some 5W 10k pullups
2021-10-20T23:37:35 < Steffanx> and read software
2021-10-20T23:37:39 < Steffanx> code
2021-10-20T23:37:50 < qyx> cannot you just enable pullups on the mcu?
2021-10-20T23:38:38 < Steffanx> lol mawk fire that guy.. not having the debug port accessible easily is a good reason to get fired
2021-10-20T23:38:58 < Steffanx> we had to do it because a client "forced" us once, was the most awful thing ever. 
2021-10-20T23:39:27 < Steffanx> also a stack of boards and when you were lucky you would pull all the smd pins from the board.
2021-10-20T23:39:38 < Steffanx> pin headers*
2021-10-20T23:42:46 < mawk> I have magic fingers Steffanx 
2021-10-20T23:42:59 < mawk> they're already enabled qyx 
2021-10-20T23:43:02 < mawk> so I assume the mcu just does not start at all
2021-10-20T23:43:20 < mawk> he's the manager I can't fire him
2021-10-20T23:43:53 < mawk> yes the same thing happens here
2021-10-20T23:43:55 < mawk> if you insert/remove it 2 or 3 times some pin headers end up detaching
2021-10-20T23:43:57 < mawk> and you need to solder new ones
2021-10-20T23:43:59 < mawk> best quality
2021-10-20T23:44:08 < steve__> stick that soldering iron in that guy's debug port
2021-10-20T23:44:50 < mawk> lol
2021-10-20T23:47:21 < mawk> why 5W pullup qyx 
2021-10-20T23:47:30 < mawk> that seems excessive
2021-10-20T23:49:31 < mawk> I'm not passing 220V through it
2021-10-20T23:50:30 < kakium69> maybe .5W
2021-10-20T23:50:58 < kakium69> that is the common THT size of resistors
2021-10-20T23:51:08 < steve__> 5ohm, that's what he meant
2021-10-20T23:51:39 < steve__> "ill be here all week"
2021-10-20T23:52:18 < qyx> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB12_s1b4GYBuNjy0Fnq6x5lpXaN/10pcs-7-Ohm-5W-Ceramic-Cement-Power-Resistors-5-Watt-7R.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
2021-10-20T23:52:26 < qyx> those are the best casual pullups
2021-10-20T23:53:47 < kakium69> did you know
2021-10-20T23:53:53 < kakium69> those are wirewound
2021-10-20T23:54:43 < kakium69> wirewound resistors do nasty stuffs
2021-10-20T23:55:08 < kakium69> I learned it in my first project ever
2021-10-20T23:55:25 < mawk> nasty how
2021-10-20T23:55:44 < kakium69> massive inductance
2021-10-20T23:58:54 < qyx> massive inductance blocks RF which is good for mawk
--- Day changed Thu Oct 21 2021
2021-10-21T00:00:31 < mawk> yes nobody likes RF
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2021-10-21T00:10:51 < Steffanx> Mawk, black magic is cool
2021-10-21T00:47:32 < Steffanx> Did your first project include sma, kakium69 ?
2021-10-21T00:47:52 < kakium69> heck no
2021-10-21T00:48:28 < kakium69> L293 or whatever and wirewound as shunt
2021-10-21T00:48:48 < kakium69> attiny2313 or something as MCU
2021-10-21T00:49:34 < kakium69> hall sensor to count rotations
2021-10-21T00:49:38 < Steffanx> Hah good old tiny 
2021-10-21T00:49:56 < kakium69> it was electric curtains
2021-10-21T00:50:13 < kakium69> connected to video projector
2021-10-21T00:52:22 < kakium69> it used shunt resistor to indicate top position
2021-10-21T00:52:57 < kakium69> "shunt"
2021-10-21T00:53:16 < kakium69> I think it was something quite large like ohms range
2021-10-21T00:53:37 < BrainDamage> when the shunt was too hot, the motor was stalling for too long so stop it?
2021-10-21T00:53:57 < BrainDamage> alternate idea: measure the noise of the gears grinding
2021-10-21T00:54:11 < kakium69> I didn't thought that :o
2021-10-21T00:54:13 < BrainDamage> when the noise is too loud, stop it
2021-10-21T00:54:25 < kakium69> it goes silent when it arrives to top
2021-10-21T00:54:42 < kakium69> maybe 8000hz burr from motor pwm
2021-10-21T00:56:21 < BrainDamage> then the supply was insufficient
2021-10-21T00:56:32 < kakium69> indeed
2021-10-21T00:56:58 < BrainDamage> everything should be on the verge of self destruction with firmware being the only mean of safety
2021-10-21T00:57:58 < kakium69> interesting perspective
2021-10-21T00:58:43 < BrainDamage> this way, when a project fails, it still succeeds in form of entertainment
2021-10-21T01:05:06 < jadew> https://media.tenor.co/videos/f8d014469e5fd13ca7c4a368814f4f56/mp4
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2021-10-21T01:08:02 < upgrdman> lunix pros: what's your favorite system monitor gui? gnome-system-monitor seems decent, but doesn't seem to have a gpu load widget
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2021-10-21T01:09:08 < jadew> upgrdman, I couldn't catch you online, but I looked into your request
2021-10-21T01:09:28 < jadew> there was a single other IC that was pin compatible
2021-10-21T01:09:33 < jadew> and it was out of stock
2021-10-21T01:10:04 < jadew> I don't remember the PN tho
2021-10-21T01:10:12 < upgrdman> jadew, digikey had my stm32 in stock for a day or two. i bought some :) thanks tho
2021-10-21T01:10:15 < jadew> I think it was 33
2021-10-21T01:10:23 < jadew> ah, cool
2021-10-21T01:10:43 < upgrdman> good thing i bought 10, cause they sold out quick, and have a 45 week lead time now haha
2021-10-21T01:11:20 < jadew> that's not bad
2021-10-21T01:11:36 < jadew> I'm still waiting on some orders I put in back in June
2021-10-21T01:12:03 < jadew> oh, 45 week
2021-10-21T01:12:07 < jadew> I thought that's days :)
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2021-10-21T01:12:27 < sauce> upgrdman: ksysguard
2021-10-21T01:13:39 < upgrdman> sauce, looks similar to the gnome one. can it show gpu load?
2021-10-21T01:13:52 < sauce> it's extensible so it can show whatever
2021-10-21T01:19:20 < kakium69> chip hoarding is in full steam
2021-10-21T01:19:42 < kakium69> everybody hoarding everything
2021-10-21T01:20:16 < sauce> upgrdman: also i've stopped using desktop tools like that for most use cases, and started using prometheus+grafana
2021-10-21T01:22:29 < kakium69> chips are being hoarded out of supply chain -TSMC
2021-10-21T01:22:55 < kakium69> meaning someone is warehousing stuff possibly to prolong the shortage
2021-10-21T01:28:07 < kakium69> oh it was simplier than I thought
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2021-10-21T01:48:42 < catphish_> interesting observation: there is a common CAN controller MCP2510, which is superseded by MCP2515, they're somewhat identical but... the commonly used arduino driver (which claims to be for the 2515) does this: https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-CAN/blob/master/src/MCP2515.cpp#L290 which is recommended against by the 2515 https://i.imgur.com/sGE2jpq.png but permitted by the 2510 https://i.imgur.com/QmthNtj.png
2021-10-21T01:50:53 < catphish_> oh, this is not a new observation. https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-CAN/pull/47/files#diff-322d7e32d691706ae8d301428f2a03d902595749c3c246835117e7e7256137c2
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2021-10-21T02:52:49 < rajkosto> can anyone tell me what kind of mixing algo does this ? https://pastebin.com/zKZcegxC its mostly just a shift right by 1 but it also flips some MSBs of the 2 halfwords sometimes
2021-10-21T03:04:28 < mawk> what's the >>1 column rajkosto 
2021-10-21T03:04:35 < mawk> it's not a right shift of the input column
2021-10-21T03:06:07 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/Nx3nE0Ey this works to emulate it but i doubt thats the actual algorithm
2021-10-21T03:06:51 < mawk> you got the >>1 backwards no?
2021-10-21T03:07:06 < mawk> for the first line, (f8ac8da9 >> 1) xor (7c5646d4) = 0
2021-10-21T03:07:28 < rajkosto> huh
2021-10-21T03:07:33 < rajkosto> >>1 is just InputID shifted right by one
2021-10-21T03:08:17 < mawk> yes sorry
2021-10-21T03:09:07 < mawk> but what's the xor then
2021-10-21T03:09:32 < mawk> 0xf8ac8da9 ^ (0xf8ac8da9 >> 1) is not 90006000
2021-10-21T03:09:33 < rajkosto> the difference between >>1 and the output of the algo
2021-10-21T03:09:40 < mawk> ah
2021-10-21T03:10:56 < mawk> so nextid is the real id
2021-10-21T03:10:59 < mawk> or what
2021-10-21T03:11:13 < mawk> how do you get that one
2021-10-21T03:12:38 < rajkosto> i have a sample size of values
2021-10-21T03:12:46 < rajkosto> output of the algo
2021-10-21T03:12:50 < rajkosto> trying to recreate it
2021-10-21T03:16:21 < rajkosto> what i have works with the sample size of values i have but looks wrong ? maybe doing it in half words would look better ?
2021-10-21T03:16:54 < rajkosto> i have more than 1000 sample size 
2021-10-21T03:17:19 < mawk> can you try to AND together the values that have the same xor ?
2021-10-21T03:17:25 < mawk> I think there's something with that
2021-10-21T03:17:40 < mawk> but not entirely sure
2021-10-21T03:26:49 < mawk> there is something going on byte by byte
2021-10-21T03:33:34 < mawk> I'd just try a bunch of xor schemes
2021-10-21T03:42:45 < mawk> I tried a bunch of xor but none match
2021-10-21T03:44:58 < mawk> inputid & (inputid >> 1) has a weird pattern
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2021-10-21T11:19:14 < jadew> I remember the main issue that was in the back of my mind when I was working on the MCU selector tool
2021-10-21T11:20:37 < jadew> I spent the bulk of the past week adding one additional field to the database with two more in the past two days
2021-10-21T11:21:27 < jadew> all that work, and then someone comes along and scrapes everything
2021-10-21T11:21:45 < Steffanx> Imagine what kind of amazing picologger clone you could have made in all this time.
2021-10-21T11:21:46 < Steffanx> :P
2021-10-21T11:21:54 < jadew> heh, indeed :)
2021-10-21T11:22:37 < jadew> I do wonder if this is something worth putting more time into, because the key aspect of it is the data
2021-10-21T11:22:49 < jadew> and that can be easily copied
2021-10-21T11:23:12 < jadew> and if I employ tactics that make it more difficult to copy, it also makes it less useful
2021-10-21T11:32:29 < jadew> and that's the reason I didn't think it's a good idea to release it until it's fully ready
2021-10-21T11:33:38 < jadew> oh well... it can't be worse than not releasing it at all
2021-10-21T11:36:07 < jadew> I kinda want to see a movie that goes well with this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYcp1bUb4lU
2021-10-21T11:36:15 < jadew> it reminds me of highschool
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2021-10-21T11:46:09 < karlp> ventYl: re building small dams and "making sense" you're forgetting the wonders of modern capitalism! it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense nationally, or environmentally, all that matters is if one business can manage to make money out of it or not :|
2021-10-21T11:47:24 < ventYl> karlp: I know, there was "green" idea to make dam on every single stream. even if did not make sense even economically, unless you donated it hugely
2021-10-21T11:48:16 < ventYl> the idea was that each village will have it's own dam and make it's own power
2021-10-21T11:48:57 < ventYl> in this way, it makes more sense to cover roofs of buildings by PV shingles. if not anything other, that surface is already occupied by something else
2021-10-21T11:49:25 < ventYl> more sense := less stupid idea
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2021-10-21T11:57:42 < karlp> we have a dam here that is being sold as "power reliability for region XXXX" when it actually builds it's own connection back to the main grid, cutting off that entire area, 
2021-10-21T11:58:04 < karlp> it does ~zero for reliability in that area, but it's being repeated all teh time, because that area _does_ have reliability concerns.
2021-10-21T11:58:30 < karlp> but heaven forbid actually building a ring system there instead of just one single line,  no no, better build a private interest dam instead...
2021-10-21T11:59:49 < karlp> we have a lot of smallish ~2-4MW projects being proposed, that are all "small enough to not need an environmental impact report" and that, given their size do absolutely nothing for any real energy demands, but with fixed buy in pricing will be cash machines for their owners.
2021-10-21T12:00:18 < qyx> 2-4 MW is not particularly small
2021-10-21T12:00:33 < karlp> it's small in the scheme of modern dam projects,
2021-10-21T12:00:35 < karlp> tiny even.
2021-10-21T12:00:36 < qyx> I consider small less than about 150 kW
2021-10-21T12:00:43 < qyx> uhm
2021-10-21T12:00:47 < karlp> sure, that sort of size is personal farm use.
2021-10-21T12:02:19 < karlp> no-ones going to make money running a 150kW plant though, so they want it as big as they can get away with, with the least possible oversight, and to make it as private as possible.
2021-10-21T12:02:25 < karlp> anyway, enough about that.
2021-10-21T12:07:07 < ventYl> that's carbon copy situation of photovoltaic farms here, and probably also everywhere else in europe
2021-10-21T12:07:24 < ventYl> there's 10, or maybe even 15 years of guarranteed buyout price
2021-10-21T12:07:34 < ventYl> without it, PV farms would be non-profitable
2021-10-21T12:07:53  * qyx will build a pumped storage micro hydro in the future
2021-10-21T12:08:22 < ventYl> and contracts are usually build so that once PV farm ceases operation, it is land owner's concern to dismount it
2021-10-21T12:09:27 < zyp> last I ran the numbers, I estimated <5 years to break even for rooftop PV on my house
2021-10-21T12:11:10 < ventYl> their situation is a bit different, they're selling electricity in bulk for market prices
2021-10-21T12:11:29 < ventYl> if PV provides electricity, it is usually very cheap, sometimes even sold for negative prices
2021-10-21T12:12:23 < zyp> why?
2021-10-21T12:13:09 < ventYl> negative soldout price reflects costs of disconnecting farm from grid and then reconnecting it back, if noone would buy that excess electricity for positive price
2021-10-21T12:13:31 < ventYl> you are effectively paying someone to burn it, so you can still be connected to the grid
2021-10-21T12:13:59 < zyp> yeah, I get that much, that's not what I asked
2021-10-21T12:14:29 < zyp> I'm asking why PV electricity wouldn't fetch more?
2021-10-21T12:14:40 < ventYl> like more money?
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2021-10-21T12:15:13 < zyp> yes
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2021-10-21T12:16:24 < ventYl> I assume that that's just an extension of above rule to situations, which are not so extreme. if sun is shining, it shines at many PV farms producing a lot of electricity. while consumption remains cylically constant, having sudden boom of production will lower prices
2021-10-21T12:17:14 < ventYl> you have usually almost zero possibility to control it's output, so PV farms cause a lot of fluctuation of market electricity prices
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2021-10-21T13:24:10 < englishman> Here it’s 100% hydro and home generation by hydro, solar or wind is purchased at the same rate that the hydro is sold. I can see less flexible grids having to pay less, and i could see in other regions where small renewable home generation would be subsidized by buying it at a higher price
2021-10-21T13:28:38 < englishman> Also theres no market as there is only one government utility
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2021-10-21T18:01:54 < catphish> daisychain is success :) https://i.imgur.com/FOSEcDQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6CVglO2.jpg
2021-10-21T18:02:32 < fenugrec> irn bru, lol
2021-10-21T18:02:51 < catphish> :)
2021-10-21T18:03:32 < catphish> now just need to finish my CAN code
2021-10-21T18:07:45 < qyx> wut are you using SPI can transceiver with rpi pico?
2021-10-21T18:08:48 < ventYl> THT one <3
2021-10-21T18:09:05 < ventYl> make PCBs big again!
2021-10-21T18:14:44 < catphish> qyx: i'm not totally sure what the question is in that sentence
2021-10-21T18:15:04 < catphish> but yes, i'm using a MCP2515 at 3v3
2021-10-21T18:20:36 < karlp> nice one!
2021-10-21T18:26:05 < qyx> sorry, I meant SPI CAN MAC
2021-10-21T18:27:10 < qyx> maybe I will be forced to do a postcovid 2021 design with AVR + SPI CAN controller
2021-10-21T18:27:22 < qyx> because no other MCUs with CAN are availeble
2021-10-21T18:28:01 < ventYl> ahy AVR if you use SPI CAN?
2021-10-21T18:29:46 < catphish> yeah with SPI can there's a lot more choice of MCU
2021-10-21T18:30:06 < catphish> including this raspberry thingemy :)
2021-10-21T18:41:37 < ventYl> for practical designs, the lack of flash is a limiting factor
2021-10-21T18:42:25  * qyx checking stm32 availability every day
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2021-10-21T18:43:36 < ventYl> fucking fuck
2021-10-21T18:43:41 < ventYl> who the fuck put VS code together?
2021-10-21T18:43:54 < Steffanx> Its open sores 
2021-10-21T18:44:08 < ventYl> fucking garbage
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2021-10-21T18:47:48 < karlp> it's pretty wonky
2021-10-21T18:48:11 < karlp> neat bits with the plugin stuff, but it's becomign eclipse again with the endless plugins
2021-10-21T18:48:17 < ventYl> like, there's debug button in status bar, which works
2021-10-21T18:48:24 < karlp> I had terrible luck with it's code navigation too
2021-10-21T18:48:37 < ventYl> and then there's debug button in debug pane, which complains, that I haven't set up debugging yet
2021-10-21T18:48:58 < ventYl> the what? damn fucking button in statusbar works. go get ask it how to start debugger
2021-10-21T18:49:21 < ventYl> yeah, code navigation has broken for me today. it worked up until now. today it stopped working
2021-10-21T18:49:39 < ventYl> but no surprise, intellisense was useless for me in Visual Studio for years
2021-10-21T18:49:57 < ventYl> actually plugins are starting being better
2021-10-21T18:50:15 < ventYl> a year or two ago you needed like two dozens of plugins just to make C++ with syntax highlighting working
2021-10-21T18:50:26 < ventYl> it was easier to make it working in vim
2021-10-21T18:50:33 < ventYl> now you need only about 10 of them
2021-10-21T18:50:38 < ventYl> still around 5 more than in vim
2021-10-21T18:50:52 < ventYl> and all the stuff from VScode works with vim, usually even better than in VScode
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2021-10-21T19:08:36 < fenugrec> whoa nice http://connectorbook.com/identification.html
2021-10-21T19:11:44 < catphish> that is nice
2021-10-21T19:11:54 < catphish> assuming it actually has a decent collection in there
2021-10-21T19:12:07 < fenugrec> it's convincing, so far
2021-10-21T19:12:17 < karlp> my first go wsan't so convincing :|
2021-10-21T19:12:27 < karlp> but still probably nice drillaround by pics at least
2021-10-21T19:12:44 < fenugrec> karlp, what oddball did you try looking up 
2021-10-21T19:13:15 < karlp> "europlug" ?
2021-10-21T19:13:27 < karlp> terminal blocks stuff
2021-10-21T19:13:40 < fenugrec> not euroblock ?
2021-10-21T19:14:11 < qyx> same here
2021-10-21T19:14:28 < qyx> apparently cage clamp terminal blocks are too new
2021-10-21T19:18:03 < fenugrec> eh, I still think it's cool.
2021-10-21T19:52:35 < bitmask> :(
2021-10-21T20:01:00 < Steffanx> no worries, be happy bitmask
2021-10-21T20:02:11 < bitmask> :)
2021-10-21T20:02:20 < bitmask> why are ozone sensors so expensive
2021-10-21T20:02:27 < bitmask> i dont wanna pay $50 to check something twice
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2021-10-21T20:05:24 < Steffanx> So buy a $15 MQ131 from ali and design the board yourself and also spend $50 :P
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2021-10-21T20:06:15 < bitmask> mq131 i think only does 10-1000 ppb? 10 ppb is about what outside is, i wanna know around that value so i need < 10 ppb too
2021-10-21T20:06:59 < bitmask> i bought a sharp plasmacluster unit, i dont think it produces a lot of ozone but id like to know
2021-10-21T20:07:28 < bitmask> and i dunno why it has 6 pins hah, i got it running on my second try though
2021-10-21T20:08:15 < bitmask> its happily clicking away at 0.5W
2021-10-21T20:08:29 < bitmask> i should put a fan on it though
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2021-10-21T21:32:25 < catphish> i just designed something thinking i'd never get the parts and it'd probably end up as a through-hole project, turns out jlcpcb have every part in stock as "basic", they even have rpi MCUs, but i'll probably be lazy and just hand solder dev boards rather than designing the supporting curcuitry
2021-10-21T21:35:38 < kakium69> what parts you dont get
2021-10-21T21:37:32 < catphish> i'm just looking at the pi pico schematic now
2021-10-21T21:37:38 < catphish> it's actually not very complicated
2021-10-21T21:39:57 < catphish> my design is basically a RP2040, 3v3 regulator, RS485, can controller, can PHY, and some passives, fuck it, i'll design it properly, i have nothing better to do with my life
2021-10-21T21:41:10 < Steffanx> i like your optimism catphish
2021-10-21T21:42:54 < catphish> Steffanx: works on the breadboard https://i.imgur.com/ziBVoUF.jpg
2021-10-21T21:43:16 < catphish> im just not sure whether to use preassembled pi picos
2021-10-21T21:44:31 < kakium69> does it have any more value than having a mcu
2021-10-21T21:45:04 < catphish> it comes with a usb port and pushbutton for programming, and a 3v3 regulator
2021-10-21T21:45:22 < catphish> none of those things are particularly hard to redo of course
2021-10-21T21:45:55 < kakium69> if you need all those things
2021-10-21T21:46:21 < kakium69> and the pi pico is available for reasonable price
2021-10-21T21:48:22 < catphish> i do, and it is
2021-10-21T21:48:53 < catphish> i even have enough in my own stock to finish this project
2021-10-21T21:48:57 < catphish> so seems the way to go
2021-10-21T21:50:22 < catphish> and handsoldering those castled boards looks fun :)
2021-10-21T21:51:41 < sauce> id just be throwing that shit on a perfboard and being done with it in an hour
2021-10-21T21:52:01 < sauce> or do you need more units
2021-10-21T21:53:56 < sauce> that mcu has kind of a neat architecture, too bad the peripherals are so limited
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2021-10-21T22:09:07 < Steffanx> i was meanly refering to the thing you said at the end of that sentence, catphish ;)
2021-10-21T22:11:15 < qyx> Steffanx: are you a pro ozone sensing inventor?
2021-10-21T22:11:58 < Steffanx> lol no
2021-10-21T22:12:21 < Steffanx> i just did what we all do. Ask google.
2021-10-21T22:16:08 < catphish> Steffanx: lol, well, this is my only job now :)
2021-10-21T22:16:24 < catphish> sauce: i need to build about 5 of them immediately
2021-10-21T22:24:31 < catphish> sauce: the peripherals are simultaneously limited and unlimited :)
2021-10-21T22:24:58 < qyx> no can, no play
2021-10-21T22:25:06 < catphish> i chose it specifically because i needed to implement a nonstandard uart
2021-10-21T22:25:46 < catphish> but yeah, external can controller, because implementing can in software would be infinitely more trouble than it would be worth
2021-10-21T22:36:32 < kitzman> yay i *almost* got my stm32 working with no ide. last time i was confused - apparently my gcc does not support compiling to this target without PIC (I think?). just adding the sections worked
2021-10-21T22:37:49 < qyx> whats the target?
2021-10-21T22:39:15 < kitzman> cortex-m0 with thumb-1
2021-10-21T22:39:32 < kitzman> i still get lds from pc-relative addresses
2021-10-21T22:39:53 < kitzman> ldr*
2021-10-21T22:47:14 < catphish> kitzman: if it helps, this is how i do it: https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/make.sh
2021-10-21T22:48:39 < catphish> here's a simper one with and without hard FPU https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/make.sh
2021-10-21T22:48:57 < catphish> i use the ST provided startup .s file
2021-10-21T22:49:30 < catphish> and indeed the provided flash .ld file
2021-10-21T22:50:07 < catphish> not sure how much of the wheel you need to reinvent, but my method suits me and no particular environment needed beyond GCC
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2021-10-21T22:51:25 < sauce> so what's the almost
2021-10-21T22:57:36 < catphish> ugh, how on earth do i choose a common mode filter, i was hoping jlc would have ACT45B-510-2P-TL003 but they don't, and i don't understand them at all to choose another one :(
2021-10-21T22:59:25 < qyx> for can?
2021-10-21T22:59:49 < catphish> no, for mystery differential serial protocol
2021-10-21T23:00:07 < qyx> oh idk
2021-10-21T23:00:11 < qyx> but this works for can https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Bourns/SRF3216-261Y?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduhNrfPMwCR7BG7cx2%2F6gxvdT77wGwgCfXWdZzNUBYV8fw%3D%3D
2021-10-21T23:01:21 < catphish> thanks
2021-10-21T23:01:58 < catphish> actually, the datasheet it quite specific about what to use Use an automotive grade 50–100 μH common-mode filter minimum for proper operation. To achieve the best performance in noisy environments, use dual common-mode filters (100 μH and 470 μH).
2021-10-21T23:02:35 < catphish> For single common-mode filter applications, the TDK 51-μH, 2.8-kΩ choke (part number ACT45B-510-2P-TL003) is recommended. This device has an input capacitance of approximately 18 pF.
2021-10-21T23:02:38 < qyx> SRF3216 are speficied in ohms attenuation at 100 MHz
2021-10-21T23:02:54 < catphish> yeah thats how most are specified
2021-10-21T23:02:54 < qyx> oh
2021-10-21T23:03:12 < catphish> 2.8k seems high
2021-10-21T23:03:35 < qyx> you are not pushing 100 MHz through it
2021-10-21T23:03:49 < catphish> i am pushing 8MHz through it
2021-10-21T23:04:39 < catphish> so the fact that it's specified as "2.8 kOhms @ 10 MHz" seems odd
2021-10-21T23:04:56 < qyx> 100
2021-10-21T23:06:08 < catphish> nope, the datasheet for the ACT45B-510-2P-TL003 clearly says 2.8k @ 10MHz
2021-10-21T23:06:32 < catphish> oh, that's common mode!
2021-10-21T23:06:50 < qyx> oh they really say 10 MHz
2021-10-21T23:06:52 < catphish> so yeah, i *want* high common mode impedance at 10MHz
2021-10-21T23:06:54 < qyx> yeah thats only common mode
2021-10-21T23:07:05 < qyx> diff is very low
2021-10-21T23:11:49 < catphish> jlc have ACT45B-101-2P-TL003 (same range, larger inductance) that seems like it'd be just fine
2021-10-21T23:19:42 < catphish> i do hate analog electronics
2021-10-21T23:20:42 < catphish> if i'd continued to read, i'd see this part is recommended too... For dual common-mode filter applications, the TDK 100-μH, 5.8-kΩ choke (part number ACT45B-101-2P-TL003) and Wurth 470-μH, 2.2-kΩ (part number 744242471) are recommended.
2021-10-21T23:20:45 < catphish> marvellous
2021-10-21T23:21:57 < mawk> why you hate analog electronics
2021-10-21T23:22:31 < catphish> thanks for listening :)
2021-10-21T23:23:20 < catphish> mawk: i just find it much less predictable, because i don't understand all aspects of it, digital is... simple
2021-10-21T23:23:36 < catphish> and being a programmer, i find it easy to control digital stuffs
2021-10-21T23:27:50 < Steffanx> digital filters blabla can be pretty damn mathy. At least when you want to know how it actually works.
2021-10-21T23:30:24 < catphish> that's true
2021-10-21T23:34:44 < mawk> what's wrong with that Steffanx 
2021-10-21T23:34:46 < mawk> we all like maths
2021-10-21T23:41:26 < Steffanx> If only I was better at it
2021-10-21T23:42:25 < mawk> you can get better at it Steffanx just do exercises
2021-10-21T23:43:12 < Steffanx> 1+1 = 
2021-10-21T23:43:24 < mawk> Steffanx: find the area of the triangle https://serveur.io/Triangle_square.svg
2021-10-21T23:43:26 < mawk> it's equilateral
2021-10-21T23:44:04 < Steffanx> Doing excercises is not enough for me to understand
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2021-10-21T23:49:58 < mawk> why Steffanx 
2021-10-21T23:50:02 < mawk> you just have to do enough
2021-10-21T23:50:10 < mawk> and look at lessons
2021-10-21T23:55:25 < mouseghost> whats the Steffanx's problem?
2021-10-21T23:57:00 < Steffanx> Lol what mouseghost ?
2021-10-21T23:57:45 < mouseghost> [21/10 22:44:04] <Steffanx> Doing excercises is not enough for me to understand
2021-10-21T23:59:39 < Steffanx> Thats was before mawk added. Lessons 😉
--- Day changed Fri Oct 22 2021
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2021-10-22T00:54:44 < kakium69> okay
2021-10-22T00:59:19 < qyx> mawk: 1.077
2021-10-22T00:59:44 < bitmask> hmm
2021-10-22T00:59:52 < bitmask> how much ozone should a device like this produce? https://i.imgur.com/Ns6QXyl.png
2021-10-22T01:00:04 < bitmask> its apparently a positive and negative ion generator
2021-10-22T01:00:41 < kakium69> not much
2021-10-22T01:00:46 < bitmask> if i put a multimeter probe a couple inches infront of the pins i get about +/- 0.4-0.7V
2021-10-22T01:01:07 < bitmask> its safe to run in a smallish room 24/7 right?
2021-10-22T01:01:15 < kakium69> sure
2021-10-22T01:01:15 < bitmask> as long as i dont smell any ozone
2021-10-22T01:01:29 < bitmask> i wanted to blast my car with ozone but this def wont cut it
2021-10-22T01:01:38 < kakium69> it wont
2021-10-22T01:01:55 < kakium69> cut the mustard
2021-10-22T01:01:59 < qyx> whats that, a step-up converter?
2021-10-22T01:02:11 < bitmask> buck/boost
2021-10-22T01:02:28 < qyx> I mean the white ion generator
2021-10-22T01:02:47 < bitmask> oh, yea it has a transformer inside, not sure what else its glued shut
2021-10-22T01:04:44 < bitmask> i saw the board it connects to uses a 100 ohm resistor, so i added one, maybe i should try without it and boost its output a bit :)
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2021-10-22T01:15:24 < kakium69> bitmask: for your car you need something that has corona discharge plates
2021-10-22T01:15:45 < bitmask> these have corona discharge but not plates
2021-10-22T01:15:57 < kakium69> nothing visible though?
2021-10-22T01:16:06 < bitmask> i was gonna check when it gets dark
2021-10-22T01:16:26 < bitmask> its  probably going to be faintly visible
2021-10-22T01:19:13 < BrainDamage> why do you want ozone?
2021-10-22T01:21:24 < bitmask> well i wanted it for my car because it smells like mildew or something, just wanted to try it
2021-10-22T01:21:55 < bitmask> its not enough but since i have it i might as well use it in my room to freshen the air during the winter :)
2021-10-22T01:22:45 < BrainDamage> concentrated ozone is an oxidizer, it'd be like spreading diluite bleach on all surfaces
2021-10-22T01:22:56 < BrainDamage> for all good and bad that bleach does
2021-10-22T01:24:08 < catphish> how do buck converters feel about being placed in parallel with another voltage source? will they just switch off and chill?
2021-10-22T01:24:42 < zyp> yes
2021-10-22T01:24:58 < zyp> I mean, that's how they regulate in the first place
2021-10-22T01:25:07 < catphish> yeah, that's what i was thinking
2021-10-22T01:25:08 < zyp> voltage too low? switch on, voltage too high? switch off
2021-10-22T01:25:26 < BrainDamage> it's like a curent pump to a capacito
2021-10-22T01:25:49 < zyp> then again, linear regs are similar, except they adjust up/down, not on/off
2021-10-22T01:26:15 < BrainDamage> the only thing they might get prissy about is if the output voltage is higher than supply
2021-10-22T01:26:21 < zyp> in general with two regs in parallel, whichever is higher will supply
2021-10-22T01:26:21 < catphish> the rpi pico has USB VBUS -> diode -> [place you are supposed to inject power] -> 3v3 regulator -> mcu
2021-10-22T01:26:23 < qyx> was about to say
2021-10-22T01:26:27 < zyp> and yeah
2021-10-22T01:26:33 < qyx> you need reverse current protection
2021-10-22T01:26:42 < qyx> otherwise your buck changes into magic smoke
2021-10-22T01:27:09 < zyp> nah, it just conducts in reverse
2021-10-22T01:27:20 < qyx> it may be problem with sync bucks
2021-10-22T01:27:29 < zyp> fair
2021-10-22T01:27:40 < zyp> not a big deal at all for linear regs
2021-10-22T01:27:42 < qyx> I smoked a fair amount of lm3671mf
2021-10-22T01:27:58 < qyx> it is enough to have a bit bigger cap on the output
2021-10-22T01:28:06 < qyx> when you disconnect your supply, it just pops
2021-10-22T01:28:30 < zyp> on orbtrace I've got a variable regulator that can supply target reference, had to take care so that target reference ends up powering the entire orbtrace in case that's unplugged
2021-10-22T01:28:40 < catphish> i'd like to place a 12v buck between a 12v rail and [place you are supposed to inject power]
2021-10-22T01:28:54 < catphish> either or both of vbus and 12v might be powered
2021-10-22T01:29:14 < zyp> which would you prefer to use if both are powered?
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2021-10-22T01:29:35 < zyp> but I mean, you've got tons of voltage to waste
2021-10-22T01:29:38 < qyx> pick parallelable ones or use a dual input power or controller
2021-10-22T01:29:44 < zyp> just add a diode after the buck
2021-10-22T01:29:48 < catphish> in this case usb will be used, becase it'll be at 4.5v, and the buck is only 3v3
2021-10-22T01:29:55 < zyp> then you'll have a plain diode OR into the 3.3V reg
2021-10-22T01:30:21 < zyp> nope
2021-10-22T01:30:33 < zyp> you're powering a 3.3V reg, you want to run a higher voltage
2021-10-22T01:30:36 < catphish> i could just put another diode in the buck path, but i wondered if i didn't need to
2021-10-22T01:30:47 < catphish> zyp: 3v3 reg is actually a buck-boost
2021-10-22T01:31:02 < catphish> it'll accept 5v5 down to 1v8 i think
2021-10-22T01:31:02 < zyp> you probably don't need to, unless you care about VBUS bleeding into unpowered 12V
2021-10-22T01:31:43 < zyp> wouldn't efficiency be better if you gave it a bit of headroom so it could operate as pure buck?
2021-10-22T01:31:58 < catphish> i suppose my only worry would be VBUS damaging the buck by powering 12v (which might be a large load if its not powered)
2021-10-22T01:32:06 < catphish> do maybe a diode is a good idea
2021-10-22T01:32:12 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-22T01:32:17 < zyp> doesn't hurt
2021-10-22T01:32:46 < catphish> 12v is a vehicle, it'll present a large load if its not powered, vbus is just a usb for programming
2021-10-22T01:33:03 < BrainDamage> you can use the usual p-mos trick in place of a diode
2021-10-22T01:33:04 < zyp> you could put the diode drop on the 12V side of the reg, less current there, so less power dissipated
2021-10-22T01:33:10 < BrainDamage> less power wasted
2021-10-22T01:33:29 < catphish> good point, power waste is my worry, this thing will be permanently battery powered
2021-10-22T01:33:58 < catphish> normal usage will be 12v car battery into the 12v buck, then into the pi pico
2021-10-22T01:34:13 < zyp> you'll have a buck permanently powered?
2021-10-22T01:34:19 < zyp> is that a good idea?
2021-10-22T01:34:20 < catphish> yes, probably
2021-10-22T01:34:24 < catphish> is it not?
2021-10-22T01:34:42 < catphish> isn't the whole point of a buck efficiency?
2021-10-22T01:34:43 < zyp> what's Iq for the reg?
2021-10-22T01:34:55 < zyp> yes
2021-10-22T01:35:28 < zyp> but for battery life Iq is generally more important than efficiency, assuming you're gonna spend most of the time asleep
2021-10-22T01:35:39 < catphish> that makes sense
2021-10-22T01:36:41 < zyp> then again, how much it matters depends on the size of the battery and the currents involved
2021-10-22T01:37:41 < BrainDamage> with a car battery it probably won't care if your Iq is 10mA
2021-10-22T01:37:44 < qyx> there are bucks with idle current less than 10 uA at 5-36 V inputs
2021-10-22T01:38:08 < qyx> ok actually there are not
2021-10-22T01:38:13 < catphish> this device sits between bms and battery cells, bms is permanently powered from lead acid battery i believe, so this probably needs to be too
2021-10-22T01:38:14 < qyx> not a single LMR33xxx on mouser
2021-10-22T01:39:35 < qyx> lmr36006 is even automotive wqalified
2021-10-22T01:39:58 < qyx> of course you cannot use things like lm2575 and similar chink derivatives
2021-10-22T01:40:37 < catphish> i've not seen those all in one devices, that might be ideal
2021-10-22T01:40:39 < BrainDamage> does it come with a record of its developers chanting 'misra, misra' ?
2021-10-22T01:41:03 < qyx> it doesn't come with anything now :>
2021-10-22T01:41:13 < catphish> oh, still needs an inductor
2021-10-22T01:42:08 < zyp> what do you mean all in one? it's just a plain sync buck
2021-10-22T01:42:21 < BrainDamage> here's your 2022 supply of silicon https://static.pexels.com/photos/260581/pexels-photo-260581.jpeg
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2021-10-22T01:42:49 < catphish> zyp: i just mean minimal external parts
2021-10-22T01:43:28 < zyp> looks fairly typical to me, unless you pick some bullshit with external compensation and whatever
2021-10-22T01:43:54 < zyp> or an async buck that needs an external diode
2021-10-22T01:45:48 < catphish> imagine what could happen if i used a non-automotive part in a car
2021-10-22T01:46:41 < qyx> like rpi pico
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2021-10-22T02:02:06 < kakium69> 10mA is not a problem
2021-10-22T02:02:15 < kakium69> but when every single thing does 10mA then it is
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2021-10-22T02:08:23 < mawk> yes qyx 
2021-10-22T02:08:42 < mawk> a fun fact is that the area of the triangle is exactly 1 + the area of the small triangle on top
2021-10-22T02:08:57 < qyx> that was the first thing I noticed
2021-10-22T02:09:10 < qyx> actually I was lazy to calculate it
2021-10-22T02:09:16 < qyx> I just measured the result in inkscape :>
2021-10-22T02:09:24 < mawk> because the two equilateral triangles are equal, one is inside the square and one is outside, so they cancel out
2021-10-22T02:09:24 < mawk> ah nice
2021-10-22T02:09:25 < mawk> it's a fun fact but it's useless to compute the area sadly
2021-10-22T02:09:25 < mawk> unless you found a super trick
2021-10-22T02:09:31 < mawk> :((((
2021-10-22T02:09:51 < mawk> I shouldn't have done a perfect drawing to scale as svg
2021-10-22T02:09:51 < mawk> I should've done a dirty doodle on a napkin
2021-10-22T02:09:52 < mawk> so nobody can cheat
2021-10-22T02:10:37 < qyx> thats not cheating, it is called creativity
2021-10-22T02:10:41 < mawk> lol
2021-10-22T02:11:21 < mawk> the rectangle triangle on the left has leftmost angle 60°, so its short side is 1×cot(60°)
2021-10-22T02:11:32 < mawk> so the big equilateral triangle has side length 1 + cot(60°)
2021-10-22T02:11:43 < mawk> so area is (1+cot(60°))² * sqrt(3)/4
2021-10-22T02:11:59 < BrainDamage> i've done integrals by printing on paper and weighting it
2021-10-22T02:11:59 < mawk> = 1/sqrt(3) + 1/2 = 1.0773502691896257
2021-10-22T02:12:04 < mawk> lol
2021-10-22T02:12:08 < BrainDamage> your napking has nothing on me
2021-10-22T02:12:13 < BrainDamage> -g
2021-10-22T02:12:25 < mawk> was it accurate?
2021-10-22T02:12:35 < qyx> BrainDamage: lol
2021-10-22T02:13:55 < BrainDamage> enough for what i needed, yes, and i could easily separate sections with a scissor
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2021-10-22T04:40:09 < fenugrec> TIL "boucherot cell" = zobel network
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2021-10-22T04:53:42 < octorian> So I want my device to be able to restart itself into the system bootloader. I think the best approach for me would be to set a flag somewhere, trigger a reset, then read that flag right at startup before anything is initialized and jump from there.  (possibly combined with checking the reset flags so this only happens on a software reset)
2021-10-22T04:54:12 < octorian> One thing I'm wondering, is where to put this flag.  I seem to have two options:  1) A reserved section of RAM.  2) The RTC "backup registers".
2021-10-22T04:54:18 < octorian> Any good argument for one versus the other?
2021-10-22T05:17:08 < m4t> i'm playing with the freertos port available as an arduino library on a blue pill. for some reason, it appears that millis() aren't quite right. 60000 millis = 62.289s, according to both pulseview (and the same is seen compared against gps pps pulses)
2021-10-22T05:18:33 < m4t> is this like a bug in the systick or? i saw a similar issue using arduino's standard millis ISR on another board with a 10mhz crystal (rather than 8mhz/16mhz), but that went away using a different millis impl (from MiniCore) that accounted for the clock correctly
2021-10-22T05:18:58 < m4t> the millis ISR issue i saw was on an avr board, btw, not stm32
2021-10-22T05:20:25 < m4t> pulseview https://imgur.com/a/M5z8ysG sample code https://paste.ee/p/dA3YZ (just vTaskDelay, but the millis diff printed to serial is exactly 60000)
2021-10-22T05:30:19 < octorian> This is where I'd checkout the source code of the STM32 port of Arduino and trace through to see exactly what millis()/getCurrentMillis() is actually doing.
2021-10-22T05:31:03 < m4t> it's calling the ST HAL function
2021-10-22T05:31:18 < m4t> it just uses HAL_GetTick
2021-10-22T05:31:21 < octorian> So then I'd see how the ST HAL systick is configured.
2021-10-22T05:32:38 < octorian> I know when using CubeMX to set things up, the configuration is different depending on whether or not you're using FreeRTOS.
2021-10-22T05:33:15 < m4t> exact same w/freertos out of the equation btw
2021-10-22T05:33:46 < m4t> (just ran the same thing with arduino+delay() rather than freertos+vTaskDelay())
2021-10-22T05:34:14 < octorian> And are the two giving the same time, or different times?
2021-10-22T05:34:16 < m4t> i wonder if it's using the internal 8mhz oscillator for some reason. that still seems waaay off though
2021-10-22T05:34:18 < m4t> exact same
2021-10-22T05:34:30 < m4t> same measured period in pulseview too
2021-10-22T05:34:31 < octorian> That's possible, I suppose.
2021-10-22T05:34:50 < m4t> 62.287 vs 62.289
2021-10-22T05:35:01 < octorian> Might be worth looking into redirecting the clock to a pin, or configuring a timer to toggle a pin automatically at some interval, and see what you get.
2021-10-22T05:35:58 < m4t> is the crystal selection done by the bootloader on stm32f103? e.g. starts on internal oscillator, bootloader says switch to xtal? or is it a fuse? or jumper?
2021-10-22T05:36:07 < m4t> s/jumper/strap pin. i guess i'll have to google...
2021-10-22T05:36:23 < octorian> Its a block of code that normally runs as part of the firmware at device startup.
2021-10-22T05:36:31 < octorian> But I have no idea how Arduino does it.
2021-10-22T05:36:42 < m4t> it's got the maple 2.0 dfu thinger on it
2021-10-22T05:36:50 < m4t> its been so long that idr how i even flashed these to begin with
2021-10-22T05:37:32 < m4t> openocd -f minimodule-swd.cfg -f stm32f103c8_blue_pill.cfg -c 'init' -c 'reset halt' -c 'stm32f1x unlock 0' -c 'reset halt' -c 'stm32f1x mass_erase 0' -c 'program /home/matt/devel/stm32/generic_boot20_pc13.bin 0x08000000 verify' -c 'reset halt' -c 'exit'
2021-10-22T05:37:34 < m4t> eh
2021-10-22T05:37:43 < m4t> that's my flash_maple.sh script anyways...
2021-10-22T05:38:12 < m4t> ./STM32duino-bootloader/binaries/generic_boot20_pc13.bin rev d20b2f1fd3c945296c0bbc0305f80efa32f773e1 from 2018
2021-10-22T05:43:07 < m4t> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/ac1d03ed4f1a81146c94fae8dc8ab649ab171171/variants/PILL_F103XX/variant.cpp#L105 it uses HSE aka external
2021-10-22T05:43:49 < m4t> oh, that's the old core though...
2021-10-22T05:44:59 < m4t> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/main/variants/STM32F1xx/F103C8T_F103CB(T-U)/variant_PILL_F103Cx.cpp#L95 is the current one i believe
2021-10-22T06:01:44 < fenugrec> octorian, I've done the former via a reserved RAM section specified in the ldscript. Probably more portable and flexible than something RTC-based, but may need more buildsys magic to get right
2021-10-22T06:06:54 < octorian> I've previously gone down the ldscript rabbit hole to embed a descriptor block /w checksum in my firmware images.  But those RTC registers actually seem like a pretty easy solution that looks like it just might work.
2021-10-22T06:08:15 < octorian> One thing I've seen exactly none of the online forum posts/comments on this ever mention, is actually checking the reset flags on start to ensure the device is actually booting due to a software reset.
2021-10-22T06:08:32 < octorian> To me, that seems kinda important, so I'm not accidentally reading garbage and trying to look for flags inside it.
2021-10-22T06:09:09 < fenugrec> I guess most public projects have simpler assumptions on reset causes? "everything is a hardreset" ...
2021-10-22T06:09:17 < fenugrec> s/most/many
2021-10-22T06:10:10 < octorian> Well, I don't know what the value of anything will be after a hard reset.  I'd assume random garbage until explicitly cleared.  But for those RTC registers, I'm not sure the docs tell you.
2021-10-22T06:10:34 < fenugrec> the docs should definitely say...
2021-10-22T06:10:36 < octorian> Its probably a "mostly safe" assumption that random bits won't match your explicit flag pattern, but it could still happen.
2021-10-22T06:11:09 < octorian> Okay, you're right.  The docs say the RTC backup registers are initialized to zero.
2021-10-22T06:11:16 < octorian> (but for RAM, I don't think you can make that assumption)
2021-10-22T06:11:36 < fenugrec> right, for RAM, all bets are off
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2021-10-22T08:05:50 < jpa-> octorian: you can combine your check with reset reason register in RCC, something like "if reset by software *and* this magic value in ram..."
2021-10-22T08:12:37 < m4t> i set TIM1 to toggle at 1Hz, and the intervals are actually 1038ms or so, which explains the 62.289s == 60000 millis() 
2021-10-22T08:13:08 < m4t> could the 8mhz crystal really be that far off? :( 
2021-10-22T08:15:07 < jpa-> how did you set it to 1Hz?
2021-10-22T08:16:05 < jpa-> and are you sure you are running on crystal and not the 8 MHz internal oscillator
2021-10-22T08:17:53 < m4t> 72mhz, 2000 prescaler, 3600 overflow. i'm not positive it's running from the xtal, but this is the clock config: https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/main/variants/STM32F1xx/F103C8T_F103CB(T-U)/variant_PILL_F103Cx.cpp#L95
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2021-10-22T08:18:31 < m4t> 1.038 * 60 = 62.28s. measured with vTaskDelay()/millis() without TIM1 (just systick) i got 62.289s
2021-10-22T08:18:49 < jpa-> you can just check the RCC registers to see what it is running from
2021-10-22T08:18:58 < m4t> i'll try dumping those
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2021-10-22T08:25:10 < m4t> RCC->CR is 0x03034983. if i'm reading it right, that means HSERDY, HSEON, HSIRDY, HSION are all 1
2021-10-22T08:27:00 < m4t> CFGR is 0x001D840A. trying to figure out what that means
2021-10-22T08:30:38 < m4t> PLLSRC appears to be 1, which i think means HSE
2021-10-22T08:33:09 < octorian> jpa-, Yeah, that part was easy to figure out.  The hard part, which I'm kinda stuck on now, is that apparently the system bootloader on my particular MCU line/revision doesn't go into DFU mode if you enter it programmatically and there's valid code in flash.
2021-10-22T08:33:48 < octorian> I've seen a couple posts talking about it, and a lot of comments from people trying to be "helpful" while assuming it behaves like whatever *other* MCU model they're using.
2021-10-22T08:38:49 < jpa-> so what are you using?
2021-10-22T08:39:14 < octorian> STML072KBU
2021-10-22T08:39:27 < octorian> Apparently this is a quirk of the new bootloader in Rev Z of the chip, which is what I have.
2021-10-22T08:39:38 < octorian> Older revisions don't behave the same way.
2021-10-22T08:39:54 < m4t> i guess i need to get a new crystal
2021-10-22T08:40:58 < m4t> i have another bluepill w/out headers on it (yet) that i'll try the same code on to see if it shows the same disparity
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2021-10-22T10:40:48 < qyx> octorian: the "valid code flag" requires power cycle in order to change, reset is not enough
2021-10-22T10:41:21 < qyx> so thats probably related
2021-10-22T10:44:35 < qyx> m4t: taskDelay(t) doesn't do exact timing, it delays up to t+1 ticks iirc
2021-10-22T10:44:52 < qyx> also, for 2000 prescaler, did you use 1999?
2021-10-22T10:45:01 < m4t> typo, 36000
2021-10-22T10:45:12 < m4t> none of this explains running 96% slow
2021-10-22T10:45:26 < m4t> 1 tick at 1000hz is 1ms
2021-10-22T10:46:15 < qyx> HSE cannot be 4% off either
2021-10-22T10:46:49 < qyx> even with wrong caps, if it starts it is only a few ppm off
2021-10-22T10:46:50 < m4t> i used timer.setPrescaleFactor(2000); timer.setOverflow(36000); and got the same drift as i did with delay(60000)
2021-10-22T10:47:07 < jpa-> qyx: don't underestimate what is possible with random chinese xtals :)
2021-10-22T10:47:31 < jpa-> m4t: does the crystal say 8 MHz?
2021-10-22T10:48:06 < m4t> 1038ms per second using those timer values (60 * 1.038 = 62.28s). delay(60000) was 62.28s
2021-10-22T10:48:37 < m4t> and, 60 timer intervals using those values was.... 62.28s per pulseview
2021-10-22T10:49:00 < m4t> running it alongside 1pps gps output, so i know it's not pulseview that's wrong
2021-10-22T10:49:54 < m4t> https://imgur.com/a/AdlHfDa
2021-10-22T10:51:29 < m4t> leaning towards random chinese xtals here
2021-10-22T10:51:47 < jpa-> what does the xtal look like?
2021-10-22T10:51:54 < qyx> can you check if HSE was selected as sysclk source?
2021-10-22T10:52:00 < qyx> *as pll source
2021-10-22T10:52:07 < jpa-> qyx: he did, register values are higher up in log
2021-10-22T10:52:08 < m4t> qyx: i did, see above
2021-10-22T10:52:30 < m4t> i may try changing it to HSI at runtime if it's possible
2021-10-22T10:52:35 < qyx> and can you can heating up the mcu a bit if it changes?
2021-10-22T10:53:12 < qyx> oh reading
2021-10-22T10:53:25 < m4t> crystal is HC-11 i think
2021-10-22T10:53:28 < m4t> 8.000
2021-10-22T10:53:38 < m4t> should read 7.6800 ;)
2021-10-22T10:53:52 < m4t> i dunno if it's the crystal or could a dud reject chip explain it?
2021-10-22T10:54:09 < jpa-> i wouldn't have been surprised to hear that some bluepills would have been assembled with random crystal, but reading 8.000 is at least partway right :)
2021-10-22T10:54:16 < qyx> there are 7.68 MHz crystals
2021-10-22T10:54:43 < qyx> and they seem to be common according to mouser stock status
2021-10-22T10:54:48 < m4t> maybe they filed them down and reetched 
2021-10-22T10:55:19 < m4t> anyhow, it's late, but i will try this other blue pill i got from the same source tomorrow
2021-10-22T10:55:34 < qyx> I would simply try replacing the crystal
2021-10-22T10:55:43 < m4t> yes, that will take a week though
2021-10-22T10:56:11 < qyx> borrow one from your microwave oven
2021-10-22T10:56:20 < jpa-> one possibility would be the difference between series vs. parallel resonant crystal
2021-10-22T10:56:37 < jpa-> but even that difference is usually only about 0.1%, not 3.8%
2021-10-22T10:57:28 < m4t> i could try measuring the crystal with a scope too. i have one of those fy6800's i could run into the second channel
2021-10-22T10:57:48 < m4t> oh, i was going to output HSE to the MCO pin(s) as well
2021-10-22T10:57:49 < jpa-> 3.8% is a bit high for the internal oscillator also, they are usually within +-1%
2021-10-22T10:58:11 < m4t> too fast for the logic analyzer i have though
2021-10-22T10:58:40 < qyx> hm, mco has a prescaler too
2021-10-22T10:58:59 < qyx> at least iirc
2021-10-22T10:59:04 < m4t> yes it does
2021-10-22T10:59:18 < m4t> a few different values from what i read
2021-10-22T11:00:00 < qyx> you could try using your dmm counter/Hz too
2021-10-22T11:00:09 < qyx> but I doubt a common dmm will count at 8 MHz
2021-10-22T11:00:23 < m4t> SYSCLK, HSI, HSE, PLL/2
2021-10-22T11:00:32 < m4t> nah it won't
2021-10-22T11:00:50 < m4t> but i can compare it to the fy6800 which is probably a lot more accurate
2021-10-22T11:01:05 < m4t> MCO in ch1, fy6800 ch2
2021-10-22T11:01:43 < m4t> i imagine both went through some form of QA unlike this $1 taobao special
2021-10-22T11:01:43 < qyx> I mean apart from the selecting mux it has /1 - /16 prescaler
2021-10-22T11:02:26 < m4t> yeah that's what i read as well, but a quick search for MCO in the datasheet didn't show that
2021-10-22T11:03:13 < m4t> ah i see it now i think
2021-10-22T11:04:36 < m4t> https://imgur.com/a/upsQLuB from the stm32f1 datasheet
2021-10-22T11:05:24 < m4t> maybe this one doesnt have a dedicated prescaler...not sure
2021-10-22T11:05:30 < m4t> i did read that but maybe it was for a different chip
2021-10-22T11:06:08 < m4t> no  reference to MCODIV there
2021-10-22T11:06:42 < m4t> bbl, thanks
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2021-10-22T13:17:49 < catphish> morning!
2021-10-22T13:20:28 < catphish> i apologise for being a leech, but would anyone be able to identify this connector? it says JST on it but they have a LOT of connectors, if it helps it connects to a PCB mounted socket https://imgur.com/a/8eSAjZP
2021-10-22T13:24:01 < karlp> nice fur :)
2021-10-22T13:24:18 < catphish> could be https://www.jst.co.uk/productSeries.php?pid=15859&cat=144 or https://www.jst.co.uk/productSeries.php?pid=16893&cat=144
2021-10-22T13:24:44 < catphish> something from this page at least https://www.jst.co.uk/products.php?cat=144&nm=
2021-10-22T13:25:39 < karlp> well, get the calipers out for starters :)
2021-10-22T13:25:43 < catphish> the cable is nice and fuzzy, this is fun but sadly unimportant
2021-10-22T13:26:33 < jadew> my bank is so stupid, when I make a transfer from the online interface it asks me who it is from...
2021-10-22T13:27:05 < catphish> lol
2021-10-22T13:29:55 < catphish> got it - i think - https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/JST-Automotive/04CPT-B1-2A?qs=XoGB3caz5%2Faex%2F45QotLjg%3D%3D
2021-10-22T13:38:19 < catphish> and yay, i can buy them - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connectors/1238228 https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connectors/1238261/ https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-terminals/1238233/?relevancy-data=7365617263685F636173636164655F6F726465723D31267365617263685F696E746572666163655F6E616D653D4931384E53656172636847656E65726963267365617263685F6C616E67756167655F757365643D656E267365617263685F6D617463685F6D6F64653D6D61746368616
2021-10-22T13:38:19 < catphish> C6C7061727469616C267365617263685F7061747465726E5F6D6174636865643D5E5B5C707B4C7D5C707B4E647D2D2C2F255C2E5D2B24267365617263685F7061747465726E5F6F726465723D313333267365617263685F73745F6E6F726D616C697365643D59267365617263685F726573706F6E73655F616374696F6E3D267365617263685F747970653D4B4559574F52445F53494E474C455F414C5048415F4E554D45524943267365617263685F7370656C6C5F636F72726563745F6170706C6965643D59267365617263685F77696C645F63617264696E675F6D6F64653D4E4F4E452
2021-10-22T13:38:20 < catphish> 67365617263685F6B6579776F72643D534350542D4130323147462D302E35267365617263685F6B6579776F72645F6170703D534350542D4130323147462D302E35267365617263685F636F6E6669673D3026&searchHistory=%7B%22enabled%22%3Atrue%7D
2021-10-22T13:38:25 < catphish> arfgh ooops
2021-10-22T13:38:47 < Steffanx> Good day to you too, catphish  
2021-10-22T13:38:58 < catphish> i meant to say... https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connectors/1238228 and https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connectors/1238261/ and https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-terminals/1238233
2021-10-22T13:39:06 < catphish> Steffanx: it is a fine day indeed :)
2021-10-22T13:39:11 < catphish> i may just go for a walk
2021-10-22T13:40:11 < catphish> this means i can hook up to these batteries with proper oem connectors :)
2021-10-22T13:44:14 < catphish> just need to lay out the board and all will be right with the world https://i.imgur.com/u7iDadO.png
2021-10-22T13:44:20 < catphish> how is everyone else this fine day?
2021-10-22T13:51:36 < Steffanx> Meh
2021-10-22T13:54:29 < zyp> had to add some hacks to my usb driver to make it work on stm32f7
2021-10-22T13:59:08 < karlp> hah
2021-10-22T13:59:12 < karlp> what in particular?
2021-10-22T14:00:18 < zyp> the changes around how vbus sensing is configured, as well as soft disconnect being enabled by default, plus the weird stuff where you don't get setup transaction complete events
2021-10-22T14:00:33 < karlp> yeah, that last one is the one that interests me.
2021-10-22T14:00:38 < karlp> or doesn't, ni a way.
2021-10-22T14:00:42 < zyp> yes
2021-10-22T14:00:44 < karlp> I'm so fucking over it.
2021-10-22T14:03:45 < zyp> another question; I've got a speed sensor hooked to a timer; what's the best way to measure speed? I figure I can either measure the time from edge to edge and inverse, or count the number of pulses in a given period; thoughts?
2021-10-22T14:06:10 < zyp> the latter seems preferable as long as the pulse rate is high enough
2021-10-22T14:07:38 < zyp> hmm, looks like the encoder is only sending 1ppr
2021-10-22T14:09:42 < jpa-> do both - count number of pulses *and* take into account the time of latest edge
2021-10-22T14:10:53 < zyp> not a bad idea, sounds like it might be a hassle though
2021-10-22T14:11:07 < jpa-> e.g. every 1 ms, get the number of pulses since last interrupt and get the time since latest edge, and the stored time from last interrupt; then you can calculate exactly how much time was taken by the X pulses
2021-10-22T14:11:14 < zyp> ah, no
2021-10-22T14:12:03 < jpa-> but i think that will need two timers, unless you are willing to fire an interrupt on every pulse
2021-10-22T14:12:11 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-22T14:12:35 < zyp> I'm gonna do some practical tests first, to check what pulse rates I'll actually be handling
2021-10-22T14:14:10 < englishman> in my old diy ecu it was a simple timer timing time between edges, with a timeout of course to raise an flag indicating a fault or a stopped motor. Pulse counting could be added as validation or smoothing but I’d use a second peripheral. Some filtering was done to the pulsewidth timer as in cars they are a little noisy, just a boxcar filter. Pulsewidth was enough and also allows you to have a
2021-10-22T14:14:11 < englishman> missing tooth gear for position
2021-10-22T14:16:52 < englishman> Pulse counting is how mechanical and old electrical dashboards work
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2021-10-22T14:17:56 < zyp> huh
2021-10-22T14:17:57 < englishman> i guess the tradeoff is how often you need the data to be valid vs the number of pulses
2021-10-22T14:18:35 < zyp> looks like 12 pulses per rotation, motor is geared 4:1, so encoder is 3ppr?
2021-10-22T14:18:35 < jpa-> averaging the pulse interval measurements gets close to taking into account both time and count
2021-10-22T14:18:37 < zyp> strange
2021-10-22T14:19:56 < jpa-> but that generally still requires getting quite frequent interrupts, though of course one can postpone them by taking out the data with DMA
2021-10-22T14:22:32 < catphish> i remember learning how to do usb, such pain
2021-10-22T14:25:40 < zyp> at 30% pwm and no load, the pulse rate is 45 Hz
2021-10-22T14:25:58 < zyp> so I don't really think an interrupt per pulse will be an issue, even flat out
2021-10-22T14:26:29 < jpa-> maybe: have a timer count up at constant frequency, have input capture & DMA copy the counter value to memory buffer on every rising edge; then when you want to get the pulse frequency, check how many samples there are in the buffer and mod-16 subtract the last from the first one
2021-10-22T14:26:52 < ventYl> that's an overkill
2021-10-22T14:26:53 < jpa-> then you have the time and the pulse count with single timer + single dma channel and O(1) time
2021-10-22T14:27:02 < zyp> jpa-, clever :)
2021-10-22T14:27:39 < jpa-> to keep it simple, you need to read it often enough that 16 bit timer doesn't overflow or the memory buffer wrap around
2021-10-22T14:28:44 < jpa-> (well wrap around is ok, but not multiple times because then the DMA index wouldn't tell the number of pulses)
2021-10-22T14:29:28 < jpa-> i guess you don't really need the memory buffer either, you can just have a single variable that the DMA writes to without MINC, because the DMA channel counter will work anyway
2021-10-22T14:35:18 < zyp> I think I'll just go with an interrupt per edge, because it looks unlikely to surpass 1 kHz anyway
2021-10-22T15:23:18 < zyp> looks like I'm topping out just below 200 Hz
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2021-10-22T18:49:49 < bitmask> so alec baldwin is a murderer
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2021-10-22T19:00:17 < jpa-> bitmask: does murder have a different definition where you live?
2021-10-22T19:00:57 < bitmask> i was joking
2021-10-22T19:01:13 < jpa-> haha, i didn't realize! that was fun
2021-10-22T19:12:33 < specing> bitmask: murder implies intent?
2021-10-22T19:13:00 < bitmask> i wasn't being serious
2021-10-22T19:14:04 < bitmask> just bringing up a crazy news story in a 'funny' way
2021-10-22T19:26:13 < Steffanx> The news bring it the same shitty clickbait way
2021-10-22T19:26:25 < Steffanx> Brings *
2021-10-22T19:27:04 < sauce> its annoying that that is the headline and not "the AD fucked things up so bad that someone died"
2021-10-22T19:28:57 < Steffanx> Exactly, but.. you also fell for it? Clicked?
2021-10-22T19:29:45 < sauce> well, film production mishaps are kinda relevant to my professional interests
2021-10-22T19:29:45 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-10-22T19:29:55 < sauce> i otherwise avoid the shit out of entertainment news
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2021-10-22T19:49:13 < englishman> Is this a good opportunity to promote your wireless camera? Safely direct while out of the line of fire!
2021-10-22T19:49:49 < englishman> Direct your next film on your living room couch!
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2021-10-22T19:57:50 < Steffanx> Lol englishman 
2021-10-22T20:08:53 < bitmask> The math teacher, sporting a faux Native American headdress, stomped her feet and waved her arms while repeatedly chanting “SohCahToa” in front of the class.
2021-10-22T20:11:55 < bitmask> alright, enough fb
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2021-10-22T21:15:45 < catphish> question: am i right in thinking that this datasheet wants a solder resist area larger than the copper area? if so, why? https://i.imgur.com/W8MfRya.png
2021-10-22T21:16:31 < catphish> or is that just totally normal?
2021-10-22T21:17:31 < jpa-> sounds normal to me
2021-10-22T21:18:08 < jpa-> difference between "copper defined pad" vs. "solder mask defined pad"; the first way where solder mask opening is wider than copper is much more common
2021-10-22T21:18:19 < catphish> this image explains it i think: https://pcbprime.com/pcb-tips/solder-mask/NSMD%20vs%20SMD%20Pad.png
2021-10-22T21:18:30 < catphish> yeah, i see now
2021-10-22T21:19:01 < catphish> i've never given this any thought before, i have always just defined them to be the exact same size
2021-10-22T21:19:30 < jpa-> and your PCB manufacturer has probably automatically increased the size
2021-10-22T21:24:34 < catphish> makes sense
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2021-10-22T23:28:23 < fenugrec> nice, mouser was expecting stock yesterday for some coax, aaaaand now it says "expected 2021-11-29"
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2021-10-22T23:31:27 < Steffanx> ohno, what will you do fenugrec?
2021-10-22T23:32:50 < jadew> speaking of coax... I need a source of cheap high frequency semi-rigid coax
2021-10-22T23:33:02 < fenugrec> Steffanx, spend a few days shopping for coax and matching connectors
2021-10-22T23:33:18 < PaulFertser> TIL ftdi-based JTAG adapters are no good for UART. Somehow FTDI decided to map UART Rx to JTAG TDI so the JTAG buffer is configuring it as output.
2021-10-22T23:33:19 < fenugrec> and then come back to see product back in stock unexpectedly early
2021-10-22T23:33:59 < PaulFertser> So what is the go-to 1.8 V UART adapter?
2021-10-22T23:35:30 < PaulFertser> (I worked it around by using the first (jtag-buffered) interface of ft2232h for transmitting and the second unbuffered for receiving, 1.8 V was high enough for it apparently.
2021-10-22T23:52:54 < octorian> qyx, [system bootloader] If the valid code flag is set on power-up, it makes me wonder if there's some way to deliberately change it from running code and then the soft-restart-to-bootloader might actually work.  But I'm just wondering blindly there.
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 23 2021
2021-10-23T00:09:10 < kakium69> hello night32
2021-10-23T00:09:38 < ventYl_> night64, it isn't 2001 anymore
2021-10-23T00:15:15 < qyx> octorian: I have read it can be changed, it is a required step after flashing the firmware to a pristine new chip if you want to avoid power cycling it
2021-10-23T00:15:39 < qyx> otherwise it repeatedly goes to the system bootloader
2021-10-23T00:15:47 < octorian> qyx, Is there information on this anywhere I can go dig into?
2021-10-23T00:16:18 < qyx> I wouild try the RM or AN2606 or whatever number is it
2021-10-23T00:16:21 < octorian> I'd love to have a software-triggered way to reboot my device into the system bootloader.  I can live without that, but I can make the "firmware update experience" more polished in the common case if I can do that.
2021-10-23T00:16:26 < qyx> the one describing the bootloader
2021-10-23T00:18:09 < octorian> Yeah, I've looked through AM2606 quite a bit.  But I have no idea how to actually use most of the info in there.  (beyond knowing the system memory address and the flowchart of behavior that's getting in my way)
2021-10-23T00:20:15 < qyx> PaulFertser: 9600 baud, open drain with pullup and a 3v3 adapter :P
2021-10-23T00:20:21 < qyx> used that in the past
2021-10-23T00:21:10 < qyx> also there are 3 kinds of cp2102, 20, 24 and 28 pin
2021-10-23T00:21:17 < qyx> one of them has Vddio
2021-10-23T00:25:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: but I'm thinking some common ready-made board should exist
2021-10-23T00:27:24 < karlp> for 1.8v, I ended up with an ft232 dongle frrom ali, with jumper selection of io voltages.
2021-10-23T00:27:48 < karlp> I've onyl got like one or two 1.8V targets though, never looked a lot at more options, just grabbed the first cheapest 1.8v one I found on ali
2021-10-23T00:29:48 < PaulFertser> karlp: for ft232h vccio is rated for 2.97 -- 3.63 V.
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2021-10-23T00:32:26 < PaulFertser> Probably something like https://aliexpress.com/item/1005001747159882.html
2021-10-23T00:32:59 < PaulFertser> Looks buffered so should be sane
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2021-10-23T00:33:48 < PaulFertser> Hm, no, those are LDOs
2021-10-23T00:34:28 < PaulFertser> ft232rl has wide vccio, so any will work, you just take vref from the target.
2021-10-23T00:36:15 < PaulFertser> The note about "originate from the same source as Vcc" is a bit discouraging.
2021-10-23T00:37:44 < octorian> qyx, Digging through RM0376, I found a blurb that basically said that I need to set the base addresses of bank0 and bank1 to zero to get into the bootloader code.  Since I'd like aborting the bootloader to be do-able just by a power cycle, I think I should give up and assume it's only going to be triggered via a physical BOOT0 button.
2021-10-23T00:40:38 < Ecco_> Hey guys
2021-10-23T00:40:53 < Ecco_> I'd like to buy a cheap multimeter
2021-10-23T00:40:59 < Ecco_> Any brand recommendation?
2021-10-23T00:41:01 < qyx> PaulFertser: oh I forgot, I am using nucleos regularly for 1v8 targets, works well even at 921600
2021-10-23T00:41:04 -!- Ecco_ is now known as Ecco
2021-10-23T00:44:26 < Ecco> Also, why would https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-101-Multimeter-Equipment-Industrial/dp/B01IB9S6WK/ this be a 10th of the price of this? https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-FLUKE-87-V-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0002YFD1K/
2021-10-23T00:44:39 < Ecco> Oh, the first one doesn't even do ammeter
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2021-10-23T00:56:34 < catphish> yay just about finished designing a thing https://i.imgur.com/KQvzCLp.png
2021-10-23T00:58:23 < kakium69> ventYl_: mercedes did 6litre V12 gasoline thats crazy
2021-10-23T00:58:35 < kakium69> like not that long time ago
2021-10-23T00:59:50 < kakium69> but hey so did bmw
2021-10-23T01:00:20 < qyx> catphish: whats that switcher? non sync huge inductor and ceramics only? doesn't compute
2021-10-23T01:01:29 < kakium69> v12 makes nice fart sounds
2021-10-23T01:02:06 < qyx> a single 0805 output cap for low freq switcher and 5 V output sounds hhighly insufficiemt
2021-10-23T01:02:49 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/G8FNIaE.png
2021-10-23T01:03:57 < catphish> more output caps might be a good idea though
2021-10-23T01:05:00 < qyx> also C5, that cap needs to be close to the boot pin and the inductor
2021-10-23T01:05:23 < catphish> ceramics are personal preference, i can stack more up if necessary, i'll check
2021-10-23T01:05:53 < kakium69> 47u?
2021-10-23T01:05:56 < qyx> feedback network should be at the opposite side of the switching node too
2021-10-23T01:06:00 < kakium69> what is this switcher?
2021-10-23T01:06:41 < ventYl_> BMW's 6litre V12 sucked
2021-10-23T01:06:55 < ventYl_> it was in E31 and it was the original engine with schizophrenia
2021-10-23T01:07:07 < qyx> kakium69: tps54331
2021-10-23T01:07:19 < catphish> at 12.6v in, 4.4v 50ma out, it'll run 66% efficiency, 570khz
2021-10-23T01:07:27 < catphish> according to ti
2021-10-23T01:07:40 < qyx> layout in their datasheet is quite shitty
2021-10-23T01:08:49 < kakium69> 47u is not sane number
2021-10-23T01:09:01 < catphish> why not?
2021-10-23T01:09:54 < qyx> usually the area used by input and output cap is larger than the inductor
2021-10-23T01:10:10 < kakium69> example circuit with 3v3 output has 6.8u
2021-10-23T01:10:11 < qyx> 0805 cap will not work at 12 V
2021-10-23T01:10:25 < qyx> it will have like 1u instead of 4u7
2021-10-23T01:11:05 < kakium69> capacitance derating by voltage?
2021-10-23T01:11:28 < qyx> for 12 input, I would use at least 4u7 25 V rated 1206
2021-10-23T01:11:39 < qyx> for output they say 2x47u
2021-10-23T01:12:03 < qyx> so four 22u/10/ 1206 sounds sane
2021-10-23T01:12:43 < qyx> you will not achieve reasonable output voltage ripple with a single 0805 whatever its rating and capacitance is
2021-10-23T01:13:33 < catphish> is that not entirely dependent on current draw?
2021-10-23T01:14:49 < catphish> qyx: 4u7 1206 will have more capacity at 12v then 22u 0805? :(
2021-10-23T01:15:05 < catphish> or did you mean 47u?
2021-10-23T01:15:13 < qyx> for high current you use low valued inductor, many small caps, high switching freq
2021-10-23T01:15:45 < qyx> 22u 0805? what voltage rating, 6v3?
2021-10-23T01:16:04 < qyx> yes it may easily be the case
2021-10-23T01:16:55 < catphish> the current input and output caps are identical: CL21A226MAQNNNE - 25v 22u X5R 0805
2021-10-23T01:17:10 < qyx> wtf
2021-10-23T01:17:53 < m4t> other blue pill i have gives 1000.0 ms for the same code, same bootloader afaik too
2021-10-23T01:17:58 < m4t> not 1038ms ...
2021-10-23T01:18:03 < catphish> this merely exceeds the suggested 10u input 22u output
2021-10-23T01:18:18 < catphish> but one must realise that i don't know what i'm doing
2021-10-23T01:18:39 < catphish> i just asked TI's calculator to give me a half-amp 5v supply
2021-10-23T01:18:57 < qyx> and they rexommended this cap?
2021-10-23T01:19:00 < qyx> x5r?
2021-10-23T01:19:32 < catphish> likely not, i will check, i probably disregarded the physical sizes
2021-10-23T01:19:53 < qyx> copy the thing 1:1 if you used ti webench
2021-10-23T01:20:15 < kakium69> x5r should do
2021-10-23T01:20:30 < kakium69> thing is not producing ton of heat
2021-10-23T01:20:47 < kakium69> probably hanging around 20-30C ?
2021-10-23T01:21:20 < catphish> it recommends 22uf x5r 0805 10v running at a derated 12u
2021-10-23T01:21:57 < catphish> like so https://webench.ti.com/appinfo/webench/scripts/SDP.cgi?ID=DB69348417F0D3D7
2021-10-23T01:22:09 < qyx> datasheet says at least two 33u ceramics are required
2021-10-23T01:22:22 < qyx> for 5V out
2021-10-23T01:22:32 < catphish> at what current?
2021-10-23T01:22:48 < kakium69> for full current ofc
2021-10-23T01:23:34 < kakium69> did that webench thing also recommend 47u inductor?
2021-10-23T01:23:49 < catphish> yes, see link if you can
2021-10-23T01:23:51 < kakium69> login wall
2021-10-23T01:23:52 < catphish> in case i'm being dumb
2021-10-23T01:23:54 < catphish> oh
2021-10-23T01:24:02 < qyx> idk I probably live in different reality
2021-10-23T01:24:35 < qyx> yeah they want login and my tablet doesn't know the pass
2021-10-23T01:24:39 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/nkH5Kyx.png
2021-10-23T01:25:00 < catphish> this thing is optimized for pretty low current
2021-10-23T01:25:21 < m4t> jpa-: btw ^^ must be bad chip or xtal
2021-10-23T01:25:30 < catphish> that could be why it looks odd, though 66% isn't that optimal :(
2021-10-23T01:26:50 < qyx> it is only a bit better than a ldo
2021-10-23T01:27:55 < kakium69> In general, inductor values for use with the
2021-10-23T01:27:56 < kakium69> TPS54331 device are in the range of 6.8 to 47 μH.
2021-10-23T01:28:08 < kakium69> okay it might be sane value
2021-10-23T01:28:26 < kakium69> I wonder why it's maxed though
2021-10-23T01:28:58 < catphish> my guess is because i'm running very low output current
2021-10-23T01:29:02 < qyx> because low current
2021-10-23T01:29:03 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T01:29:30 < kakium69> I dont think 22u even with derating is a problem
2021-10-23T01:30:12 < catphish> some 22u caps it recommends qty 2
2021-10-23T01:30:18 < catphish> so i'll triple check
2021-10-23T01:31:39 < kakium69> those additional parameters viewed in calculator are important
2021-10-23T01:32:56 < kakium69> ohms and stuffs
2021-10-23T01:39:33 < kakium69> catphish: how much you added margin for current?
2021-10-23T01:40:00 < kakium69> margin for input voltage?
2021-10-23T01:41:18 < catphish> i have no idea what the derating is, life is too short to calculate, i'm going to try to use one of the powerdesigner recommended caps as-is
2021-10-23T01:41:32 < catphish> seems the safer approach
2021-10-23T01:41:51 < catphish> i suspect the similar cap i tried is insufficient in 0805
2021-10-23T01:42:14 < kakium69> derating is that DC voltage makes ceramic capacitor capacitance to become derated
2021-10-23T01:44:30 < kakium69> and rule of thumb you need to at least double the operating voltage to get your ceramic capacitor rated voltage - for the better capacitors like X5R X7R
2021-10-23T01:45:50 < catphish> you mean operate it at half rated voltage?
2021-10-23T01:45:55 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T01:47:35 < catphish> i feel like X5R 47uF 16V 1210 should be enough
2021-10-23T01:47:58 < kakium69> does it meet the ESR parameter
2021-10-23T01:48:17 < kakium69> ohm thing
2021-10-23T01:48:23 < catphish> that's where i'm having trouble
2021-10-23T01:48:32 < catphish> by which i mean i have no idea
2021-10-23T01:48:39 < catphish> cap datasheets are hard to read :(
2021-10-23T01:49:08 < kakium69> weird frequency graphs and stuff
2021-10-23T01:51:47 < catphish> ah, found one that ti suggest that i can actually buy
2021-10-23T01:51:51 < catphish> everyone's happy
2021-10-23T01:52:07 < catphish> and i'll stick some more on the input just in case :)
2021-10-23T01:54:03 < kakium69> https://www.maximintegrated.com/content/dam/images/design/tech-docs/5527/5527fig01.gif
2021-10-23T01:54:26 < kakium69> it seems x5r and x7r have different voltage deratings
2021-10-23T01:54:45 < kakium69> x7r is like -40% at rated voltage
2021-10-23T01:54:57 < kakium69> x5r is more than -50%
2021-10-23T01:56:05 < kakium69> also interesting is the physical size has quite a lot of effect
2021-10-23T01:56:36 < qyx> yes
2021-10-23T01:57:21 < catphish> i now have a 47uf 1206 10v on the output
2021-10-23T01:57:53 < catphish> and 3 x 50V 4.7uF 1210 on the input, exact ti recommendations :)
2021-10-23T01:58:14 < kakium69> it sounds ok
2021-10-23T01:59:19 < kakium69> x5r?
2021-10-23T02:00:26 < kakium69> qyx: I didn't know physical size had that much of effect
2021-10-23T02:00:34 < catphish> x5 on the output, x7 on the input
2021-10-23T02:04:23 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg
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2021-10-23T02:16:56 < catphish> thanks all - more caps! https://i.imgur.com/UPxDWQ2.png
2021-10-23T02:17:28 < catphish> the output cap still looks skinny, i wonder if there's any harm in just adding another parallel one for good measure
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2021-10-23T02:28:51 < catphish> oh my derated capacitance is already at the high end of the recommendation, it'll be good :)
2021-10-23T02:30:17 < qyx> it may, some switchers, especially older ones, require some minimal ESR to work properly
2021-10-23T02:30:43 < qyx> adding paralel caps lowers the ESR
2021-10-23T02:32:28 < catphish> yeah, i just read up on  exactly that, i'll stick with copying one of the ti recommendations precisely, i don't know how good powerdesigner is, but it's better than my guesswork
2021-10-23T02:32:30 < catphish> thanks!
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2021-10-23T02:35:08 < machinehum> Hello STMers
2021-10-23T02:35:20 < machinehum> That hotplate is the bomb
2021-10-23T02:35:27 < machinehum> Works great
2021-10-23T02:35:56 < catphish> hotplate is fun
2021-10-23T02:40:45 < kakium69> I have electric cooker
2021-10-23T02:41:06 < kakium69> thing you put a pan on
2021-10-23T02:41:17 < machinehum> Yeah that works to
2021-10-23T02:41:34 < machinehum> I wish the hotplate would cool as well
2021-10-23T02:41:42 < kakium69> hysteresis is like 20celsius kelvins
2021-10-23T02:41:55 < kakium69> or 30 or 40
2021-10-23T02:42:01 < kakium69> nobody knows
2021-10-23T02:42:02 < machinehum> Since it's a conductive heating method the shit takes so long to cool down
2021-10-23T02:55:10 < catphish> ironically after all that talk of my inductor being too big, turns out i needed a bigger one for slightly lower resistance, again i just copied one straight from the TI designer
2021-10-23T02:56:06 < catphish> i feel like this power supply is overkill now, perhaps should have found something designed for lower power output, never mind, it'll work
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2021-10-23T02:59:13 < upgrdman> this morning: "i wonder what's on the front page of reddit" ... https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/qdcme2/im_getting_a_vagina_in_7_days/ ... lol
2021-10-23T02:59:54 < catphish> lol
2021-10-23T03:08:13 < machinehum> I know this trans person with a tattoo on her neck, it's a date
2021-10-23T03:08:38 < machinehum> I was nearly certain that's when she got her surgery done
2021-10-23T03:08:45 < machinehum> But I asked anyways
2021-10-23T03:08:58 < machinehum> It was the date she got lazer eye surgery lol
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2021-10-23T03:52:55 < upgrdman> a few days ago Fran Blanch posted a video and mentioned that she is openly "trans and queer" ... which explains a lot. And a couple months ago she also made a video complaining about all the old Ham Radio guys hitting on her, which is even more amusing now.
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2021-10-23T14:00:54 < kitzman> 0/join #openssl
2021-10-23T14:00:58 < kitzman> ah fml
2021-10-23T14:08:55 < Steffanx> Ohno, will you be alright kitzman ?
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2021-10-23T18:35:36 < catphish> i've spent a lot of time looking at power supplies, i'm really unclear whether anything i build is going to exceed the efficiency of a linear regulator at 20mA, the enourmous one from last night seems the best hope, but i'm not sure if it's worth it
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2021-10-23T19:47:04 < qyx> it is, you just need to use the right switcher
2021-10-23T19:47:52 < octorian> I need to figure out why my Segger J-Link doesn't reliably reset my STM32 board when I do a code download w/o attaching the debugger.  I think I'm getting similar weird behavior via the J-Link command interface and via STM32CubeIDE.  Gonna stick a probe on the reset pin later to see what's going on.
2021-10-23T19:48:01 < qyx> tps54240, tps62125, tps62175, lmr36006, all are good for light loads
2021-10-23T19:48:13 < octorian> (sending the commands to manually toggle the reset pin works fine, and the STLink-v3 also works fine)
2021-10-23T19:48:18 < qyx> lmr33620/30 too
2021-10-23T19:48:32 < octorian> (I suspect either its not actually toggling RESET, or there's some timing issue)
2021-10-23T19:49:46 < octorian> Whenever I need something in the ballpark of 500mA for something, I seem to always end up with parts from RECOM.  And for some reason, their thru-hole ones are actually the cheapest option.
2021-10-23T19:50:13 < catphish> qyx: hmm, yes, my search foo is improving, low current switchers seem to have better efficiency at low current
2021-10-23T19:51:03 < qyx> specifically look for switchers targetting i dustrial sensors
2021-10-23T19:51:27 < qyx> but those are optimised for about 50 mA
2021-10-23T19:51:56 < qyx> you need a bit higher peak current because of the CAN interface
2021-10-23T19:52:38 < qyx> iirc there were tps54060/61/62 but I may remember wrong
2021-10-23T19:52:53 < catphish> i'm not sure what peak current is
2021-10-23T19:52:55 < qyx> anyway, 99% of tps* are not obtainable now
2021-10-23T19:53:20 < catphish> yeah china is being unhelpful with the good TI chips
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2021-10-23T20:07:33 < octorian> And I just stumbled across a company  called "Alpha & Omega Semiconductor" with a line of products called EzBuck.
2021-10-23T20:08:28 < octorian> Whenever I revisit the next round of a device that needs decent-level 3.3V and 5V regulators, I really should see if I should just stick with RECOM or go to something else.  (maybe EMI is a concern with a less-integrated solution, not sure)
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2021-10-23T21:51:41 < catphish> i finally found a better SMPS design that's smaller and efficient at lower current https://i.imgur.com/US0EkQ6.png
2021-10-23T21:59:16 < aandrew> 62160, I've used that
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2021-10-23T22:09:27 < kakium69> catphish: 47u inductor is heckin massive
2021-10-23T22:09:45 < kakium69> and especially if you need it to pass any current without saturation
2021-10-23T22:10:17 < catphish> kakium69: i quite agree, by the time i got the necesary resistance, it took over my board :)
2021-10-23T22:10:37 < catphish> this one is quite a lot smaller, in part because it has a much lower maximum input voltage
2021-10-23T22:11:08 < catphish> anyway i'm copying the TI powerdesigner design as-is, i'm tired of this now, but this should do the job :)
2021-10-23T22:12:59 < kakium69> did you add any margin to your parameters of output current or input voltage?
2021-10-23T22:14:06 < catphish> yes, quite a lot
2021-10-23T22:14:23 < catphish> i'm a little tighter on input voltage now, but should be fine
2021-10-23T22:14:37 < kakium69> tighter?
2021-10-23T22:15:08 < catphish> well this design (and switch chip) supports up to 17v
2021-10-23T22:15:21 < kakium69> okay
2021-10-23T22:15:30 < kakium69> and how much bellow 12volts?
2021-10-23T22:15:45 < catphish> this is for a "12v" vehicle electrical system, it's pretty much alwys going to be between 12v and 14v
2021-10-23T22:16:14 < catphish> that's less margin than i usually enjoy, but i don't see a problem
2021-10-23T22:17:03 < catphish> minimum won't be an issue, i'm outputting 4-5v, so it'll destroy the lead acid battery before it fails
2021-10-23T22:17:32 < catphish> which in itself is less than ideal (no undervoltage cutoff in this chip)
2021-10-23T22:17:56 < kakium69> if it has lead acid battery in it concider 10volts being empty battery
2021-10-23T22:18:08 < catphish> but from my experience, people who design vehicle electrinics don't care about draining the battery
2021-10-23T22:18:47 < catphish> 10v would be a VERY empty lead acid battery
2021-10-23T22:18:54 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T22:18:54 < kakium69> empty empty
2021-10-23T22:18:57 < catphish> anyway, this will be fine at that voltage
2021-10-23T22:18:58 < PaulFertser> catphish: ISO 16750 part 2 lists requirements for automotive equipment. 
2021-10-23T22:19:32 < catphish> PaulFertser: that's cool, i feel like i should read that, eventually
2021-10-23T22:19:55 < kakium69> idk. cars I have seen have battery drain in single milliamps average
2021-10-23T22:20:09 < kakium69> after sitting about 10minutes
2021-10-23T22:20:23 < PaulFertser> 10 V you can see while starter motor is working.
2021-10-23T22:20:35 < kakium69> or less
2021-10-23T22:20:50 < catphish> this particular vehicle will have a VERY stable 12v supply
2021-10-23T22:21:15 < octorian> catphish, I should remember to go back to the TI Power Designer the next time I want to figure this out.  Of course its not like anything it recommends is actually available right now.
2021-10-23T22:21:18 < catphish> owing to being electric, it'll really only have 2 states, float, and very-little-draw
2021-10-23T22:21:24 < PaulFertser> 16 V is the maximum that the ISO talks about so if your chip is up to 17 V it's fine.
2021-10-23T22:21:28 < octorian> Can't wait to get past this cursed chip shortage.
2021-10-23T22:21:34 < catphish> PaulFertser: excellent, thanks
2021-10-23T22:22:11 < catphish> octorian: i agree, i've spend maybe 4 hours tabbing between TI and JLCPCB trying to find just one part that matches
2021-10-23T22:22:24 < catphish> (well, set of parts)
2021-10-23T22:22:28 < catphish> but i think i'm there now
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2021-10-23T22:40:41 < kakium69> how to play chesss?
2021-10-23T22:41:39 < PaulFertser> How not to hate motor biking when it's 3 C and raining?
2021-10-23T22:42:53 < kakium69> just ride faster and push harder
2021-10-23T22:44:17 < PaulFertser> In a traffic jam?.. Also, the engine tends to stall in conditions like that. No problems for the whole summer in any rain, but now it's just unstable :/
2021-10-23T22:44:56 < kakium69> have you noticed that it's more slippery in 3C than 20C rain
2021-10-23T22:45:32 < PaulFertser> tbh, not sure
2021-10-23T22:50:06 < kakium69> it is
2021-10-23T22:50:52 < kakium69> motorcycle tyre rubber compounds have been optimized for +20C or so
2021-10-23T22:50:58 < PaulFertser> Well, obviously it must be, the question is whether you can easily feel it.
2021-10-23T22:51:50 < PaulFertser> I usually skid the rear wheel by breaking hard at the beginning of a ride at low speed to learn what is the minimum traction I can count on.
2021-10-23T22:52:10 < kakium69> had to lift at 100kmh because of wheel spin after 1->2 upshift
2021-10-23T22:53:01 < catphish> kakium69: i'm hoping for some more unnecessary wheelspin when i have a tesla motor on the go
2021-10-23T22:53:30 < kakium69> unnecessary wheelspin is the bestest
2021-10-23T22:54:25 < kakium69> but my hands were so frozen it would have taken like a second to even apply clutch or brake so I lifted
2021-10-23T22:55:05 < PaulFertser> What does lifted mean?
2021-10-23T22:55:13 < kakium69> lift the throttle
2021-10-23T22:56:14 < catphish> lifting the throttle doesn't always work in my car
2021-10-23T22:56:32 < kakium69> wym?
2021-10-23T22:56:41 < catphish> "rev hang"
2021-10-23T22:56:56 < catphish> some emissions control thing that doesn't allow instant off-throttle
2021-10-23T22:57:02 < kakium69> I hate that
2021-10-23T22:57:05 < catphish> it's actually dangerous occasionally, but not very
2021-10-23T22:57:15 < kakium69> it messes with shifting
2021-10-23T22:57:20 < catphish> very much so
2021-10-23T22:57:29 < catphish> my car has a LOT of it, so i've learned to live with it
2021-10-23T22:57:40 < catphish> but it means i have to let off a little early to shift
2021-10-23T22:57:54 < catphish> just like 1/4 of a second before hitting the clutch
2021-10-23T22:58:25 < kakium69> electronic throttle valve nothing but headache
2021-10-23T22:59:10 < catphish> one thing i'm *really* looking forward to in my EV is tuning the throttle response
2021-10-23T22:59:16 < kakium69> actually it doesn't mess with my upshifting anymore catphish
2021-10-23T22:59:33 < catphish> what car?
2021-10-23T22:59:39 < kakium69> I keep it floored and bang the shifter and dump clutch
2021-10-23T22:59:54 < catphish> kakium69: lol that's always tempting
2021-10-23T23:00:44 < kakium69> when there is massive flywheel and engine is slow response
2021-10-23T23:01:27 < kakium69> passat 2.8 v6
2021-10-23T23:01:38 < catphish> ooo big
2021-10-23T23:01:47 < kakium69> mid size
2021-10-23T23:02:00 < kakium69> or small
2021-10-23T23:02:32 < catphish> passat is huge! i'm british
2021-10-23T23:02:43 < kakium69> I thought you meant engine
2021-10-23T23:02:54 < catphish> 2.8l is huge. i'm british
2021-10-23T23:03:09 < kakium69> yes it's too big
2021-10-23T23:03:20 < catphish> pretty much ALL engines are 2.0t now anyway
2021-10-23T23:03:28 < kakium69> 1600kg of fun stopping mass
2021-10-23T23:03:45 < catphish> mine is a 2012 golf mk6 gti
2021-10-23T23:04:19 < kakium69> so 1380kg or something?
2021-10-23T23:04:40 < catphish> i'm not sure, they're needlessly heavy iirc
2021-10-23T23:04:55 < catphish> did you see my project car?
2021-10-23T23:05:00 < kakium69> opel thing?
2021-10-23T23:05:03 < catphish> yeah
2021-10-23T23:05:14 < kakium69> only wikipedia page
2021-10-23T23:05:48 < catphish> actual car: https://imgur.com/a/VWmeGLX
2021-10-23T23:06:43 < kakium69> that is best looking opel i have ever seen
2021-10-23T23:07:25 < kakium69> wait
2021-10-23T23:07:29 < catphish> it's a lotus elise really
2021-10-23T23:07:45 < catphish> just has an opel badge :)
2021-10-23T23:10:06 < kakium69> is it yours now?
2021-10-23T23:10:17 < catphish> yes
2021-10-23T23:10:28 < catphish> it's sitting on my drive
2021-10-23T23:10:52 < catphish> i'm drivng it with its 2.2l petrol engine for now
2021-10-23T23:11:06 < kakium69> anything special that engine?
2021-10-23T23:11:21 < kakium69> high rev high compression ratio anything?
2021-10-23T23:12:14 < catphish> no
2021-10-23T23:12:28 < catphish> it's the most basic 2.2l engine possible, NA, 145hp
2021-10-23T23:13:15 < catphish> the best thing that can be said about it is that it's unlikely to break before the fibreglass body does :)
2021-10-23T23:17:18 < bitmask> 2.8L is huge? jeez :)
2021-10-23T23:17:23 < bitmask> mine is 3.2
2021-10-23T23:17:35 < kakium69> it's mid - small
2021-10-23T23:17:59 < catphish> lol you guys have stupid big engines
2021-10-23T23:18:03 < kakium69> and small in americas
2021-10-23T23:18:16 < kakium69> probably the smallest
2021-10-23T23:18:28 < catphish> i bought a 350hp porsche earlier in the year, even that was only 2.5l l4
2021-10-23T23:18:55 < bitmask> mine is 260HP but its pretty heavy for a sedan
2021-10-23T23:19:36 < catphish> we've always had small engines, so modern emissions standards aren't hugely impactful here
2021-10-23T23:19:48 < catphish> they keep just tuning the turbos better
2021-10-23T23:19:56 < bitmask> how do you get 350hp from a 2.5L I4?
2021-10-23T23:20:02 < bitmask> oh turbo right
2021-10-23T23:20:03 < bitmask> :)
2021-10-23T23:20:21 < kakium69> it has some boost
2021-10-23T23:20:45 < bitmask> i mean, turbos increase emissions too
2021-10-23T23:21:28 < bitmask> so you save weight by having a smaller engine but its probably not environmentally friendlier
2021-10-23T23:23:10 < kakium69> it is when car is used for cruising
2021-10-23T23:24:44 < qyx> does crusing over mountain passes at 100 kmh count?
2021-10-23T23:25:03 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T23:27:47 < kakium69> actually idk
2021-10-23T23:27:57 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO2vC_iMTI this guy knows
2021-10-23T23:28:33 < catphish> bitmask: much turbo
2021-10-23T23:28:58 < bitmask> what spins up a turbo? i know exhaust gasses but what produces more gas, RPM?
2021-10-23T23:29:36 < catphish> a combination of open throttle and rpm
2021-10-23T23:30:21 < bitmask> so cruising is done at lower rpm so boost would be less so id think kaki is right, i dont care enough to watch the vid though :P
2021-10-23T23:31:03 < catphish> bitmask: if you're cruising at low rpm with the throttle only open 20%, the turbo will be somewhat idle
2021-10-23T23:31:10 < bitmask> right
2021-10-23T23:31:17 < catphish> when you open the throttle, more gas will pass, and it will spin up
2021-10-23T23:31:28 < catphish> this is what is called turbo lag
2021-10-23T23:31:37 < bitmask> thats what im saying, kaki is right in that cruising will be more friendly
2021-10-23T23:31:48 < catphish> after half a second or so, you get a big increase in torque
2021-10-23T23:32:04 < catphish> but if rpm is too low, it won't work, and if rpm is high enough, the lag is minimal
2021-10-23T23:32:19 < qyx> and a big black cloud
2021-10-23T23:32:22 < kakium69> and that is why 5.8litre v8 is economic engine option
2021-10-23T23:32:27 < catphish> lol
2021-10-23T23:32:54 < catphish> i'm quite enjoying trying to get 100% out of my 145hp engine
2021-10-23T23:33:15 < bitmask> i used to drive a 1990 nissan sentra, had 95hp
2021-10-23T23:33:22 < catphish> they say driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow, and that's extra true when the slow car weighs nothing :)
2021-10-23T23:33:46 < kakium69> I used to drive car with 84hp and 1400kg weight
2021-10-23T23:33:59 < kakium69> not anymore
2021-10-23T23:34:23 < bitmask> i love driving my car, sucks it needs high octane gas though
2021-10-23T23:34:53 < Steffanx> Cars, fuck cars.
2021-10-23T23:34:59 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T23:35:01 < qyx> get a 20hp bike
2021-10-23T23:35:04 < bitmask> steffans, fuck steffans
2021-10-23T23:35:27 < Steffanx> The EGR valve was replaced yesterday and now shit is al lfucked up
2021-10-23T23:36:01 < kakium69> aaw shieet
2021-10-23T23:36:22 < kakium69> gasoline or diesel?
2021-10-23T23:36:54 < Steffanx> diesel
2021-10-23T23:37:07 < qyx> we had broken egr
2021-10-23T23:37:12 < qyx> it fixed itself
2021-10-23T23:37:55 < kakium69> Steffanx: lack of power?
2021-10-23T23:37:57 < Steffanx> its almost like its choking at low rpm sometimes. 
2021-10-23T23:38:06 < Steffanx> not always, sometimes
2021-10-23T23:38:59 < kakium69> fuel filter or MAF could be not related fault to that EGR
2021-10-23T23:39:11 < kakium69> with the colder weather
2021-10-23T23:39:19 < qyx> Steffanx: same here it was
2021-10-23T23:39:25 < Steffanx> fuell filter was replaced recently.
2021-10-23T23:39:26 < qyx> it stopped after a month or so
2021-10-23T23:39:40 < kakium69> any 0C weather steff?
2021-10-23T23:39:41 < qyx> during accelerating mainly
2021-10-23T23:39:44 < Steffanx> Nope
2021-10-23T23:40:09 < Steffanx> but its super annoying.  Shifting from 1 to 2, push the trottle and pretty much nothing happens for a second or 2
2021-10-23T23:40:10 < kakium69> leaking vacuum line
2021-10-23T23:40:28 < kakium69> leaves vacuum system without vacuum and drops boost
2021-10-23T23:40:29 < Steffanx> but only sometimes
2021-10-23T23:40:45 < kakium69> egr valve vacuum operated?
2021-10-23T23:40:53 < Steffanx> it is like this after the egr was changed, so i wonder what they fucked up.i
2021-10-23T23:40:58 < qyx> I had a leaking vacuum line too, it is much different
2021-10-23T23:41:02 < Steffanx> i didnt do it myself, the garage did.
2021-10-23T23:41:23 < kakium69> qyx: what does it do?
2021-10-23T23:41:37 < kakium69> I have only everything vacuum related leaking in my gasoline car
2021-10-23T23:41:45 < kakium69> not in diesel one
2021-10-23T23:41:59 < qyx> you push the throttle pedal and nothing happens, you are snailing at 30 km/h not able to overtake trucks uphill
2021-10-23T23:42:35 < kakium69> Steffanx: VAG?
2021-10-23T23:42:43 < bitmask> INA
2021-10-23T23:43:28 < kakium69> qyx: black smoke and smell of burning candle?
2021-10-23T23:43:37 < qyx> no, nothing
2021-10-23T23:43:54 < qyx> as if the 110 kW engine was replaced with a 10 kW one
2021-10-23T23:43:58 < kakium69> I had that 30kmh and black smoke it was MAF
2021-10-23T23:44:21 < kakium69> Steffanx: black smoke and smells or not?
2021-10-23T23:45:15 < Steffanx> Nope
2021-10-23T23:45:32 < Steffanx> It smelled before it was replaced a bit.
2021-10-23T23:46:16 < kakium69> MAF is okay then
2021-10-23T23:46:20 < Steffanx> Its a fiat. Multijet 1.3 something 
2021-10-23T23:50:06 < kakium69> it might actually be electric valve
2021-10-23T23:50:22 < kakium69> I cannot see any small hoses or vacuum bell in the photos
2021-10-23T23:51:09 < kakium69> did it work actually better with broken valve?
2021-10-23T23:51:48 < kakium69> Steffanx
2021-10-23T23:51:50 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-10-23T23:52:16 < Steffanx> It was stuck some fixed position 
2021-10-23T23:53:28 < Steffanx> Ill just go back and have them fix it
2021-10-23T23:53:32 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-23T23:53:55 < Steffanx> Unless my trip tomorrow to work fixes it magically
2021-10-23T23:54:01 < Steffanx> I mean monday
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2021-10-23T23:59:58 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKWjBkRGItdldNQ0U/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-xHZ2Hqoyb-fv1GJBo0poVA EGR related maintenance
--- Day changed Sun Oct 24 2021
2021-10-24T00:01:38 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-10-24T00:12:24 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/user/JustFeedMePieDammit/favorites/folder/839313/bears/QjyiuU4 meanwhile in russia
2021-10-24T00:15:38 < Steffanx> Cant open..
2021-10-24T00:16:51 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/QjyiuU4
2021-10-24T00:18:47 < kakium69> every time someone posts imgur link I will browse imgur for 1hour minimum
2021-10-24T00:20:15 < kakium69> it's a law of physics
2021-10-24T00:22:50 < specing> kakium69: it's mind manipulation
2021-10-24T01:00:19 < catphish> new more sanely sized psu https://i.imgur.com/M0I3LKC.png
2021-10-24T01:02:35 < kakium69> transient protection?
2021-10-24T01:03:17 < kakium69> is that that 47uH coil?
2021-10-24T01:03:28 < kakium69> it's quite small
2021-10-24T01:06:57 < qyx> catphish: looks much better
2021-10-24T01:08:50 < catphish> kakium69: no, that's a 2.2u coil!
2021-10-24T01:09:08 < kakium69> what happend?
2021-10-24T01:09:27 < catphish> found a supply designed for lower current, lower input voltage, it's standard design uses 2u2 coil and 22u cap
2021-10-24T01:09:38 < catphish> it's much saner for my current levels
2021-10-24T01:09:42 < kakium69> that's actually sane inductance value
2021-10-24T01:09:50 < catphish> lets hope so
2021-10-24T01:10:11 < catphish> the problem previously was that i was using a large switch at the limits of its low-current efficiency
2021-10-24T01:10:29 < qyx> what swither is this?
2021-10-24T01:10:31 < catphish> this one is much smaller / better sized for the application
2021-10-24T01:10:53 < catphish> TPS62160
2021-10-24T01:11:57 < catphish> it's still 1A capable, but seems to have much better properties at low current usage
2021-10-24T01:12:02 < kakium69> 2Mhz switching thats fast
2021-10-24T01:12:04 < kakium69> modern
2021-10-24T01:12:24 < catphish> Typically 17-μA Quiescent Current
2021-10-24T01:12:28 < catphish> much more better
2021-10-24T01:13:25 < kakium69> that's pretty low for it not saying in title "micropower"
2021-10-24T01:13:45 < kakium69> it actually is micropower
2021-10-24T01:17:41 < kakium69> I have used that chip
2021-10-24T01:18:52 < catphish> cool
2021-10-24T01:19:51 < kakium69> only the 0.5A variant
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2021-10-24T18:09:10 < mawk> o
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2021-10-24T18:17:47 < mouseghost> a
2021-10-24T18:18:14 < Steffanx> u
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2021-10-24T18:18:54 < mouseghost> smol pp Steffanx
2021-10-24T18:19:17 < Steffanx> smul pp mouseghost
2021-10-24T18:19:43 < mouseghost> did you know that on average, american penis is smaller than any other penis? its because american penis lacks the skin
2021-10-24T18:20:10 < Steffanx> Did you know I don't care? I have no plans to touch yankee penis.
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2021-10-24T18:20:43 < mawk> are you sure?
2021-10-24T18:21:00 < Steffanx> Yes, no plans
2021-10-24T18:21:26 < PaulFertser> You're late mouseghost . Male circumcision was discussed here at length few weeks ago already.
2021-10-24T18:21:37 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, i think i was here at that time
2021-10-24T18:21:48 < mouseghost> Steffanx, yeah yankee penis is eww
2021-10-24T18:21:52 < mouseghost> no wonder
2021-10-24T18:23:27 < PaulFertser> btw, I did some reading about the milk+meat rule. Apparently this was part of some pagan rituals and the jews wanted to be clearly distinguished from that, so this prohibition should be more about PR and politics than rationale or usefulness.
2021-10-24T18:31:10 < Steffanx> mouseghost to be more clear: Touching none, except my own.
2021-10-24T18:31:19 < PaulFertser> Are you a yankee?
2021-10-24T18:31:31 < mouseghost> hm
2021-10-24T18:31:50 < mouseghost> isnt Steffanx a brit
2021-10-24T18:31:58 < PaulFertser> BTW, you do not need to have plans to do that. They say it's more fun when spontaneous.
2021-10-24T18:32:31 < PaulFertser> Dutch
2021-10-24T18:32:40 < PaulFertser> btw, mouseghost , have you read Milan Kundera?
2021-10-24T18:32:46 < mouseghost> not yet
2021-10-24T18:32:50 < mouseghost> i need to read handmaids tale asap
2021-10-24T18:33:35 < PaulFertser> Hm, guess I should too.
2021-10-24T18:35:08 < mouseghost> for school
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2021-10-24T18:37:27 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: a Polish school?
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2021-10-24T19:02:13 < qyx> PaulFertser: interesting, we were taugh to not drink milk while eating meat too
2021-10-24T19:02:30 < qyx> if you meant this by milk+meat rule
2021-10-24T19:03:50 < PaulFertser> qyx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_and_meat_in_Jewish_law
2021-10-24T19:04:13 < PaulFertser> qyx: since christians use the same Book they are kinda expected to follow it too.
2021-10-24T19:05:16 < PaulFertser> “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
2021-10-24T19:05:37 < PaulFertser> For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
2021-10-24T19:05:52 < PaulFertser> And by the Law Christ mean the judaism law.
2021-10-24T19:05:57 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, international baccalaureate
2021-10-24T19:06:08 < mouseghost> dp
2021-10-24T19:06:20 < englishman> https://youtu.be/3CwHISOKIrY?t=31
2021-10-24T19:06:43 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I see. Was surprised because Polish is kind of a rather backwards, almost ultra-conservative country recently it seems.
2021-10-24T19:07:03 < mouseghost> yeah no way it was in regular school
2021-10-24T19:07:12 < mouseghost> i doubt regular school even has english reading list
2021-10-24T19:12:25 < PaulFertser> Few years ago the russian ministry of education published an interesting list of various books, songs and films supposed to provide some guidance for giving cultural background depending on age. It included plenty of real classics as well as rock and other popular music and several Miyazaki films too. Guess what, in a week or two they pulled it out from the net and said it was a mistake and they
2021-10-24T19:12:31 < PaulFertser> do not recommend any of that.
2021-10-24T19:12:33 < PaulFertser> fuck russia :(
2021-10-24T19:21:31 < catphish> thanks for all the help with the dc-dc converter, i'm not sure i learned much, but i have ordered some boards, fingers crossed it works
2021-10-24T19:21:39 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@37-33-27-8.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-24T19:21:48 < kakium69> chill.exe
2021-10-24T19:22:06 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn9WY1e7pJQ
2021-10-24T19:22:59 < catphish> so far the only mistake i've found in my design after finishing it is that i didn't protrude the connectors over the edge of the board, so they won't come flush with a housing
2021-10-24T19:24:09 < kakium69> what is it you are designing atm?
2021-10-24T19:24:43 < catphish> kakium69: it's an interface board between CAN and some batteries
2021-10-24T19:25:36 < catphish> the batteries have a proprietary TI daisychain interface, and i want to talk to them (to a chain of them) so i designed a thing that sits at the end of the chain and converts the data to CAN messages
2021-10-24T19:25:41 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-24T19:25:50 < kakium69> show the boardds!
2021-10-24T19:26:04 < kakium69> it's judgement time
2021-10-24T19:26:11 < catphish> i dislike sharing designs after i've placed orders :)
2021-10-24T19:26:30 < catphish> but here: https://i.imgur.com/vrOGXSB.png
2021-10-24T19:26:45 < kakium69> neat
2021-10-24T19:26:57 < catphish> it has a 12v to 5v SMPS, a RS485 interface with AC coupling for the battery interface, and a CAN interface
2021-10-24T19:27:17 < catphish> U2 is a Pi Pico, because i couldn't be bothered to reinvent that wheel
2021-10-24T19:27:29 < kakium69> were the chokes in that orientation in the battery?
2021-10-24T19:27:36 < kakium69> I don't remember anymore
2021-10-24T19:28:02 < catphish> this is what's in the battery https://i.imgur.com/CseZGiD.png
2021-10-24T19:28:48 < catphish> i just realised i've actually reversed the choke and the isolating caps, i assume / hope this doesn't matter
2021-10-24T19:29:05 < kakium69> oof
2021-10-24T19:29:13 < kakium69> it doesn't
2021-10-24T19:29:14 < catphish> lol
2021-10-24T19:29:49 < catphish> for bonus points, an enclosure: https://i.imgur.com/M4pg1f2.png
2021-10-24T19:30:05 < kakium69> L1 looks weird
2021-10-24T19:30:25 < kakium69> should the traces just go straight from one side and come out straight from other side
2021-10-24T19:30:39 < catphish> annoyingly no, one side has to be reversed
2021-10-24T19:30:55 < kakium69> good
2021-10-24T19:31:25 < kakium69> nice connectors
2021-10-24T19:31:31 < catphish> yeah those are lovely
2021-10-24T19:31:59 < catphish> https://www.jst.co.uk/productSeries.php?pid=12722
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2021-10-24T19:34:52 < catphish> nb. i was completely wrong about the choke, fuck knows what happened there, it won't work as-is
2021-10-24T19:36:51 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/ptAtAkE.png
2021-10-24T19:36:56 < catphish> clearly i had a stroke
2021-10-24T19:37:35 < catphish> v1 will have no choke i guss
2021-10-24T19:39:42 < Steffanx> Yes, im dutch, mr mouseghost  
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2021-10-24T19:40:54 < kakium69> just do exactly as on battery pcb catphish
2021-10-24T19:42:04 < catphish> that was my intention
2021-10-24T19:54:41 < catphish> i'll see if i can change it :)
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2021-10-24T19:58:52 < catphish> kakium69: non-fucking-retard version: https://i.imgur.com/iywuGAg.png
2021-10-24T19:59:25 < kakium69> lookin good
2021-10-24T19:59:37 < catphish> better indeed
2021-10-24T19:59:47 < catphish> i'm hoping i can actually make the change
2021-10-24T19:59:56 < catphish> otherwise i'll just have to do without the choke
2021-10-24T20:01:00 < kakium69> or just bodge it
2021-10-24T20:01:18 < kakium69> solder it sideways throw some wires into it
2021-10-24T20:02:15 < catphish> lol perhaps
2021-10-24T20:02:18 < catphish> brb
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2021-10-24T22:00:28 < catphish> i wonder is jlc will acquiesce to my request for a late order cancellation :)
2021-10-24T22:01:21 < kakium69> hello catphish
2021-10-24T22:01:26 < catphish> hello again :)
2021-10-24T22:01:27 < kakium69> I thought you had a meltdown
2021-10-24T22:01:32 < catphish> haha
2021-10-24T22:01:38 < kakium69> just left
2021-10-24T22:01:56 < Steffanx> catphish, why such "huge" traces with such tiny via?
2021-10-24T22:02:04 < catphish> my laptop's had a meltdown, i rebooted it and forgot to reconnect
2021-10-24T22:02:14 < catphish> Steffanx: *shrug* i default via
2021-10-24T22:02:53 < catphish> you're right though, i make traces as wide as will reasonably fit, because why not, but never give much thought to vias
2021-10-24T22:02:58 < Steffanx> what you do to your laptop that you have a meltdown?
2021-10-24T22:03:30 < catphish> Steffanx: USB host controller crashed, dunno why
2021-10-24T22:03:48 < catphish> no external usb devices detected
2021-10-24T22:04:30 < kakium69> always use the smallest via(allowed by manuf) as default
2021-10-24T22:04:39 < kakium69> for more current more vias
2021-10-24T22:05:32 < catphish> vias look saner in design view https://imgur.com/LNSWsd8
2021-10-24T22:05:35 < kakium69> do using bigger vias have even any upsides?
2021-10-24T22:05:53 < catphish> you need less of them, i guess :)
2021-10-24T22:06:19 < catphish> yea i don't think they're tiny
2021-10-24T22:06:21 < kakium69> per area you need more of them
2021-10-24T22:06:34 < kakium69> more of area
2021-10-24T22:07:24 < catphish> dramatically better design: https://i.imgur.com/t95tLPz.png
2021-10-24T22:08:07 < catphish> i moved the connectors off the board a little, and tidied up some traces by rearranging the pin order on the plug (i forgot those were trivially changed)
2021-10-24T22:08:24 < catphish> oops, need ot change the labels on them accordingly ;)
2021-10-24T22:09:00 < catphish> i really am just dumb at times
2021-10-24T22:09:08 < catphish> how is your day mr kakium69?
2021-10-24T22:09:11 < kakium69> add some via for coil
2021-10-24T22:09:23 < kakium69> boring
2021-10-24T22:09:58 < catphish> via for coil?
2021-10-24T22:10:08 < catphish> oh, cooling L2?
2021-10-24T22:10:29 < kakium69> I assume that fill is GND
2021-10-24T22:10:51 < catphish> yes it is
2021-10-24T22:11:14 < catphish> oh wait, the one on the left isn't
2021-10-24T22:11:29 < kakium69> ah
2021-10-24T22:11:33 < catphish> the one on the left is 5v with L2
2021-10-24T22:11:43 < catphish> it's not gonna get hot at 20mA though
2021-10-24T22:12:18 < kakium69> if it produces any noticeable heat something is wrong
2021-10-24T22:12:25 < catphish> the entire power consumption of this project is 100mW
2021-10-24T22:16:45 < kakium69> how about those labels for +12v and gnd
2021-10-24T22:18:38 < catphish> kakium69: lol see my comment above
2021-10-24T22:18:53 < catphish> <catphish> i moved the connectors off the board a little, and tidied up some traces by rearranging the pin order on the plug (i forgot those were trivially changed)
2021-10-24T22:18:53 < catphish> <catphish> oops, need ot change the labels on them accordingly ;)
2021-10-24T22:18:53 < catphish> <catphish> i really am just dumb at times
2021-10-24T22:19:03 < kakium69> ah good
2021-10-24T22:19:08 < kakium69> you caught it
2021-10-24T22:22:00 < catphish> so many iterations, i'm actually exhausted! https://i.imgur.com/QCGtqd5.png
2021-10-24T22:34:05 < catphish> non-pretty version - https://i.imgur.com/EJJZev3.png
2021-10-24T22:36:01 < catphish> on a related note, i just spent ages wondering why my can transmitter wouldn't transmit today after working fine yesterday, turns out CAN has an acknowledgement process, if nothing is listening, transmissions will be detected as failed, useful, once you know :)
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2021-10-24T23:08:59 < kakium69> any fun economic gasoline / petrol cars under 1300kg and used costs like couple of k?
2021-10-24T23:11:12 < Steffanx> maluch pre 1985 imported from poland.
2021-10-24T23:12:21 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-24T23:12:25 < kakium69> just like that car
2021-10-24T23:13:11 < kakium69> thing with that old cars is that those cost more than newer ones just about to rust away
2021-10-24T23:13:29 < kakium69> because someone didn't allow it to rust away
2021-10-24T23:13:54 < kakium69> didn't put the kilometers in it
2021-10-24T23:13:59 < kakium69> kept it inside
2021-10-24T23:16:23 < Steffanx> nah, you can get them for 300 euro
2021-10-24T23:16:45 < Steffanx> but then it is rusting away
2021-10-24T23:17:04 < Steffanx> but even for 2k restored one.
2021-10-24T23:18:26 < Steffanx> and for you poland is close, so you buy one there and drive it home.
2021-10-24T23:18:36 < kakium69> is it 2stroke?
2021-10-24T23:18:42 < Steffanx> I know a Belgian guy that did that.
2021-10-24T23:20:03 < Steffanx> dont know
2021-10-24T23:20:27 < kakium69> it's fiat 126?
2021-10-24T23:20:31 < Steffanx> yeah
2021-10-24T23:20:37 < Steffanx> aka Polski Fiat 126p
2021-10-24T23:21:05 < Steffanx> maybe have mouseghost find one for you
2021-10-24T23:21:11 < kakium69> I could pull the engine from my moped
2021-10-24T23:21:15 < kakium69> drop it in that car
2021-10-24T23:22:46 < mouseghost> fiat 126p is expensive tho
2021-10-24T23:23:04 < Steffanx> no way, i can find on for 300-2k on the interwebs
2021-10-24T23:23:08 < kakium69> 1 fiat 126 available here
2021-10-24T23:23:09 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-10-24T23:23:13 < kakium69> 0 maluch
2021-10-24T23:23:36 < Steffanx> From 99% rust to restored well.
2021-10-24T23:23:41 < kakium69> that fiat has quite bad paint and 2kiloeuro
2021-10-24T23:25:23 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ztg-B6v6rQ good use for moped engine for winter
2021-10-24T23:25:52 < kakium69> I think for winter even my R6 engine would be too much
2021-10-24T23:27:45 < Steffanx> i wouldnt want to crash with such car though
2021-10-24T23:28:17 < kakium69> thing with winter is that if you don't have the same track width as other vehicles you ded
2021-10-24T23:29:00 < kakium69> because of deep grooves in ice or fresh snow
2021-10-24T23:29:31 < kakium69> maybe it's better to be totally different than slightly different
2021-10-24T23:30:38 < kakium69> slightly different is all the time trying to lock to grooves
2021-10-24T23:30:52 < kakium69> but 1meter wide car makes it's own tracks
2021-10-24T23:31:56 < catphish> kakium69: lots of hot hatches i suspect
2021-10-24T23:32:35 < catphish> kakium69: clio 172/182
2021-10-24T23:32:47 < catphish> kakium69: 1021kg!
2021-10-24T23:33:11 < kakium69> let's see the prices
2021-10-24T23:33:41 < catphish> https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177483345?model=Clio&make=Renault&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&postcode=dt110pp&aggregatedTrim=Renaultsport&include-delivery-option=on&radius=100&sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1
2021-10-24T23:33:49 < catphish> £1,995
2021-10-24T23:34:23 < catphish> that's barely heavier than my vx220!
2021-10-24T23:36:25 < kakium69> 4keuros the cheapest one
2021-10-24T23:36:37 < catphish> shame
2021-10-24T23:37:00 < kakium69> if I have 4keuros I just make it 5-6keuros and get 1.8t bex
2021-10-24T23:37:30 < catphish> corsa opc?
2021-10-24T23:37:51 < catphish> i had one of those brand new in 2010 :)
2021-10-24T23:43:36 < kakium69> https://img2.auto.cz/img/29/normal690/6564826_fiat-126-fiat-v0.jpg?v=0
2021-10-24T23:43:58 < qyx> ##shortage32 lead times are shortening
2021-10-24T23:44:31 < catphish> yay
2021-10-24T23:44:58 < catphish> the guy i'm working with on EV conversions has an EV fiat 126
2021-10-24T23:50:55 < kakium69> I think 126 would do if I can get it done for 2k
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2021-10-24T23:53:48 < kakium69> it has rear wheel drive and rear engine
2021-10-24T23:54:06 < kakium69> it has sports car specs
--- Day changed Mon Oct 25 2021
2021-10-25T00:02:30 < Steffanx> So hitchhike to poland, buy one and drive back, kakium69 
2021-10-25T00:02:34 < Steffanx> Or maybe italy
2021-10-25T00:04:15 < kakium69> poland
2021-10-25T00:04:42 < kakium69> have you seen how italians drive with little cars like that
2021-10-25T00:06:33 < catphish> kakium69: what are you plotting?
2021-10-25T00:06:44 < kakium69> budget fun car
2021-10-25T00:06:50 < kakium69> personal fun economic
2021-10-25T00:07:19 < catphish> i see
2021-10-25T00:08:00 < qyx> will you feed it with a fermented corn?
2021-10-25T00:08:21 < catphish> when i was younger i used to like fiat puntos, this was my first: https://i.imgur.com/LCSoPmU.jpg
2021-10-25T00:09:12 < qyx> did you use it before or after that incident?
2021-10-25T00:10:02 < kakium69> catphish: very good photo
2021-10-25T00:10:05 < catphish> exclusively before
2021-10-25T00:10:35 < catphish> that incident marked the end of my driving it :)
2021-10-25T00:11:04 < qyx> I am asking because here it is the start for some people
2021-10-25T00:11:08 < qyx> playing with metalwork
2021-10-25T00:25:44 < BrainDamage> how did you manage to get it to flip like that?
2021-10-25T00:26:04 < BrainDamage> did you accelerate into the ditch?
2021-10-25T00:55:54 < Steffanx> What the hell catphish 
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2021-10-25T00:57:21 < catphish> BrainDamage: i was driving too fast in icy conditions, a bend was muddy from farm vehicles, and the mud was partially frozen, i braked on it, spun the car, hit the grass bank and flipped over, through the hedge
2021-10-25T00:57:26 < Steffanx> I still drive a punto. The last edition they made. Its a ok car. Until my EGR issues -_-
2021-10-25T00:57:53 < Steffanx> Not mine, but the car's 
2021-10-25T00:59:19 < catphish> i was 18 at the time, the landing was lucky, it landed backwards so the seat took 100% of my weight, i was not injured until i cut myself climbing through the hedge to get out
2021-10-25T00:59:24 < specing> catphish: was it totaled or still driveable after that? 
2021-10-25T01:00:39 < catphish> specing: there's no way it would have been economically sane to try to fix it, to i just got it towed straight from there, never tried to drive it again
2021-10-25T01:00:46 < catphish> *so i
2021-10-25T01:01:20 < specing> hehe :D
2021-10-25T01:01:44 < catphish> also, someone came in the night and stole the audio kit out of it :(
2021-10-25T01:02:11 < catphish> in the morning it was upside down with no speakers
2021-10-25T01:02:52 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-10-25T01:03:07 < Steffanx> I think it was drunk you
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2021-10-25T01:05:28 < specing> Lol
2021-10-25T01:09:18 < catphish> 3 hours until china wake up and i find out if they're gonna let me rework my order
2021-10-25T01:09:20 < catphish> too much stress
2021-10-25T01:10:17 < catphish> if they've laid it out on a board with a load of other assembly orders, they might tell me to get bent :)
2021-10-25T01:12:05 < zyp> jlc?
2021-10-25T01:12:34 < catphish> yeah
2021-10-25T01:13:03 < zyp> ah, assembly, not just pcb?
2021-10-25T01:13:08 < catphish> yeah assembly
2021-10-25T01:13:17 < zyp> did it pass review already?
2021-10-25T01:13:21 < catphish> i don't really care if they bill me for the PCB and bin it
2021-10-25T01:13:28 < catphish> but the components are expensive
2021-10-25T01:13:35 < catphish> yes it did :(
2021-10-25T01:13:40 < zyp> ah
2021-10-25T01:13:53 < catphish> they reviewed it on a sunday!
2021-10-25T01:14:00 < zyp> it's china
2021-10-25T01:15:37 < catphish> well fingers crossed i can rework it and not have to pay for the parts and shipping at least
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2021-10-25T01:16:03 < catphish> much annoyed about screwing up the pin assignments for my filter
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2021-10-25T01:16:45 < catphish> on the plus side, my first commercial electronics job seems to have been successful, customer liked my layout and it worked
2021-10-25T01:17:09 < machinehum> What did it do?
2021-10-25T01:17:36 < catphish> i'm actually not really sure
2021-10-25T01:18:45 < machinehum> nice
2021-10-25T01:18:54 < catphish> knowledge of its purpose was surprisingly unimportant to its layout (which is all i was doing), i was just told which bits were analog and to keep them away from the digital stuff
2021-10-25T01:20:22 < machinehum> Fair enough
2021-10-25T01:20:35 < machinehum> Yeah I've written three proposals with little luck
2021-10-25T01:20:45 < machinehum> Luck with one
2021-10-25T01:23:19 < catphish> i'm not sure where i'd go looking for electronics work, but my family already has an electronics business, so i can do stuff supervised for their customers if i want
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2021-10-25T01:47:24 < catphish> my mind is blown, car wheel size doesn't really affect tyre diameter
2021-10-25T01:49:39 < catphish> or rather, it can, but not necessarily, tyres come in many profiles
2021-10-25T01:49:42 < kakium69> no
2021-10-25T01:49:54 < kakium69> but it sure sets the minimum tyre diameter
2021-10-25T01:50:07 < catphish> it does
2021-10-25T02:07:33 < catphish> i just did some physics, my new car should pull away at 23mph/s :)
2021-10-25T02:07:55 < catphish> friction will quickly screw me, but that sounds fast
2021-10-25T02:16:36 < kakium69> what are these units
2021-10-25T02:17:21 < catphish> units that mean something to british peoples lol
2021-10-25T02:18:01 < kakium69> you used metric to get that result
2021-10-25T02:18:13 < kakium69> ofc with conversion
2021-10-25T02:18:19 < kakium69> ?
2021-10-25T02:18:23 < zyp> so a bit over 10m/s^2?
2021-10-25T02:18:44 < catphish> kakium69: yes
2021-10-25T02:18:59 < catphish> actually i just used this website https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/force.php
2021-10-25T02:19:08 < catphish> 9723N / 950kg
2021-10-25T02:19:56 < catphish> 10.23 m/s^2
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2021-10-25T02:20:53 < catphish> that's actually more than g :)
2021-10-25T02:22:16 < ventYl> you'll most probably twist your shafts off
2021-10-25T02:24:23 < catphish> well the issue there will be the 3082.2 NM of torque
2021-10-25T02:24:56 < ventYl> that's roughly 10x what stock shafts usually sustain
2021-10-25T02:25:11 < ventYl> also, your tyres will slip 100% of time
2021-10-25T02:25:19 < ventYl> it won't be drivable without ESP
2021-10-25T02:25:35 < catphish> you're taking all the fun outa my crazy car
2021-10-25T02:25:35 < kakium69> it can be
2021-10-25T02:25:53 < kakium69> with very good throttle pedal
2021-10-25T02:26:18 < catphish> clearly the tesla shafts can take that much
2021-10-25T02:26:48 < kakium69> doesn't cars spin wheel before braking shaft?
2021-10-25T02:27:09 < ventYl> if you have them, then ok
2021-10-25T02:27:09 < catphish> kakium69: you'd think so
2021-10-25T02:27:26 < kakium69> until shafts brake
2021-10-25T02:27:31 < kakium69> break
2021-10-25T02:27:38 < ventYl> kakium69: short term yes, long term shaft components will break
2021-10-25T02:27:39 < catphish> ventYl: i do, but... that's not that usful, they'll need to be welded to my oem shafts
2021-10-25T02:27:53 < ventYl> that's delicate operation
2021-10-25T02:28:04 < catphish> i believe you
2021-10-25T02:28:15 < catphish> i'm not the expert in such matters
2021-10-25T02:28:38 < catphish> i don't know how much my tyres will take without spinning, clearly not that much
2021-10-25T02:29:43 < ventYl> well, it is rotary part, so you want it to be perfectly aligned
2021-10-25T02:30:01 < ventYl> welding in it's nature tends to cause very slight material bend during cooling
2021-10-25T02:30:53 < catphish> i think it involves a heavy sleeve over the 2 shafts
2021-10-25T02:31:02 < catphish> but i'll have to find out
2021-10-25T02:31:46 < catphish> i'm trying to find out how fast a regular family car accelerates
2021-10-25T02:31:51 < catphish> for compares
2021-10-25T02:32:41 < ventYl> for tyres, it is matter of diameter, thread width, torque and weight per wheel
2021-10-25T02:33:43 < ventYl> rubber has some friction resistance, dimensions and weight will give you pressure, torque will give you force, at some given amount of <something> tyre will start slipping
2021-10-25T02:33:52 < ventYl> this ofc depends also on the other surface
2021-10-25T02:35:57 < ventYl> 3kNm will certainly make slip every tyre you would potentially get and fit
2021-10-25T02:36:37 < catphish> ideal
2021-10-25T02:37:12 < ventYl> 600Nm in RX7 make it slip at racing circuit in 3rd gear regardless of ground speed
2021-10-25T02:37:35 < ventYl> I don't remember what tyres are fitted, but rim is no narrower than 10"
2021-10-25T02:37:42 < catphish> it's unlikely i'll ever program that much torque, but that's what it's capable of :)
2021-10-25T02:39:21 < ventYl> I normally hate automotive processes, but make sure to design safety critical parts of SW and HW according to ASIL C
2021-10-25T02:41:15 < catphish> seems sane
2021-10-25T02:41:33 < catphish> i found a buffer overflow in someone else's torque control code last week :)
2021-10-25T02:42:14 < ventYl> in malloc-ed buffer?
2021-10-25T02:43:21 < catphish> nothing so fancy
2021-10-25T02:44:06 < catphish> https://github.com/damienmaguire/Lexus-GS450H-Inverter-Controller/blob/master/Software/gs450h_v7.ino#L341
2021-10-25T02:44:32 < catphish> this (imo) incredibly obviously dangerous line of code
2021-10-25T02:44:50 < kakium69> .ino
2021-10-25T02:45:09 < ventYl> jesus, that code looks afwul
2021-10-25T02:45:25 < catphish> i basically rewrote it
2021-10-25T02:45:26 < ventYl> go buy that guy new keyboard, his space bar certainly has issues
2021-10-25T02:46:26 < catphish> my version is hopefully safer, not necessarily perfect, but i'm happier https://github.com/catphish/gs450h/blob/master/gs450h-v10/gs450h-v10.ino#L288
2021-10-25T02:48:32 < catphish> my space bar nearly wore out making that fork
2021-10-25T02:49:20 < ventYl> indent tool could probably fix that for you
2021-10-25T02:49:50 < ventYl> it can add/remove whitespace at certain places
2021-10-25T02:49:57 < ventYl> it looks much better
2021-10-25T02:50:00 < ventYl> and makes more sense
2021-10-25T02:53:51 < ventYl> one general complaint anyway: control loop is not ridig. if serial fails, control loop will be blocked by waiting for it indefinitely potentially doing unwanted things
2021-10-25T03:02:10 < catphish> yes and no, it never blocks waiting for serial data
2021-10-25T03:02:24 < catphish> but it also doesn't really do anything except when receiving serial data
2021-10-25T03:05:08 < catphish> this was another substantial improvement i made in fact, instead of using blocking reads, it only reads serial data when it's actually available, when it's not it spins the main loop anyway, most notably pulsing pin_inv_req which requests the serial data
2021-10-25T03:06:46 < catphish> if no serial data is received, something is *very* wrong, it should probably freak out at some point and power cycle the inverter it's controlling
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2021-10-25T03:58:15 < catphish> jlc cancelled my order, yay
2021-10-25T04:06:24 < englishman> you're probably better off having custom shafts turned for the correct inner and outer cv joints and the geometry
2021-10-25T04:06:45 < englishman> welding the two together will work for fitment and testing
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2021-10-25T04:28:02 < catphish> thanks, i'll inquire
2021-10-25T04:29:22 < catphish> turns out the reason i fucked up this pcb was that i chose the wrong footprint entirely for a part, jlcpcb spotted it but approved it anyway for some reason, luckily they were happy to cancel it
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2021-10-25T04:51:44 < catphish> i'll find out about making up shafts, it does seem like the most dangerous part of the operation
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2021-10-25T12:58:05 < catphish> morning humans
2021-10-25T13:00:47 < jpa-> morning fishy
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2021-10-25T13:03:22 < kakium69> catphish: pcbfab doesn't give a crap
2021-10-25T13:04:53 < catphish> kakium69: about what?
2021-10-25T13:05:05 < catphish> oh, about errors
2021-10-25T13:05:21 < catphish> looks like they're happy to try regardless
2021-10-25T13:06:06 < catphish> funnily enough, they *still* think the footprint is wrong, despite it now following the datasheet precisely, i'm confident it'll work though
2021-10-25T13:08:14 < jpa-> kakium69: PCB fab usually checks footprints if they are doing assembly also
2021-10-25T13:08:18 < catphish> this is the pcb land pattern, according to the datasheet, with the component superimposed over it, you can see that the component contacts don't actually fit within the land pattern, no idea why it's designed this way https://i.imgur.com/3u5LFhM.png
2021-10-25T13:08:51 < jpa-> datasheets sometimes have errors also
2021-10-25T13:09:01 < jpa-> but yeah, should work
2021-10-25T13:09:22 < catphish> actually, the edge perfectly aligns with my solder mask edge
2021-10-25T13:10:04 < catphish> i just measured it, it's *exacty* on the edge, they're gonna solder it anyway, i'm sure it'll be fine
2021-10-25T13:10:08 < ventYl> do you realize, that prototyping factories are literally factories for failures?
2021-10-25T13:10:31 < catphish> well indeed
2021-10-25T13:10:41 < catphish> they do a good job of replicating my failues though ;)
2021-10-25T13:11:12 < catphish> well fingers crossed my design works
2021-10-25T13:11:29 < catphish> if not, i'll just kill everyone
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2021-10-25T14:01:16 < catphish> nothing to do now but raytrace things https://i.imgur.com/d0PdWxv.png
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2021-10-25T19:45:01 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg
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2021-10-25T19:58:45 < englishman> Tsla approaching $1k lol
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2021-10-25T21:32:33 < englishman> now at $1026 lol
2021-10-25T21:32:42 < englishman> amazing
2021-10-25T21:32:58 < englishman> now a trillion dollar company
2021-10-25T21:33:28 < catphish> that's pretty good
2021-10-25T21:35:24 < englishman> if i spent 50k on TSLA instead of a Tesla it'd be worth 640k now
2021-10-25T21:35:35 < englishman> nov 2019
2021-10-25T21:45:42 < kakium69> you dumdum englishman
2021-10-25T21:45:57 < kakium69> always all the money into TSLA
2021-10-25T21:46:06 < kakium69> not into Tesla
2021-10-25T21:50:40 < kakium69> every money
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2021-10-25T22:21:38 < catphish> lol
2021-10-25T22:22:15 < catphish> i'll make do with my £2,500 small drive unit
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2021-10-25T22:41:30 < catphish> i hope i don't have too much money on TSLA bubble
2021-10-25T22:41:30 < mawk> all money into btc englishman 
2021-10-25T22:41:39 < mawk> the only thing you should bet on
2021-10-25T22:41:49 < mawk> close your eyes and click "open position"
2021-10-25T22:42:21 < englishman> yeah no thanks i'm not a gambling addict
2021-10-25T22:42:38 < englishman> and not really into get rich quick schemes
2021-10-25T22:42:56 < mawk> why
2021-10-25T22:43:04 < mawk> btc isn't an ICO token or something like that
2021-10-25T22:43:10 < mawk> if btc is get rich quick, what are ICOs
2021-10-25T22:43:14 < mawk> get rich at the speed of light?
2021-10-25T22:43:14 < englishman> especially ones that benefit chinese drug dealers
2021-10-25T22:43:22 < mawk> it's not only chinese
2021-10-25T22:43:24 < englishman> stay poor at the speed of light
2021-10-25T22:43:25 < machinehum> mawk: Get poor quick
2021-10-25T22:43:30 < mawk> it benefits drug dealers from all around the world
2021-10-25T22:43:38 < mawk> but drug dealers don't use btc anymore anyway
2021-10-25T22:43:40 < machinehum> Monero
2021-10-25T22:43:42 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-25T22:43:45 < machinehum> People don't use btc
2021-10-25T22:43:45 < mawk> they all use monero
2021-10-25T22:43:57 < mawk> so your argument is moot englishman 
2021-10-25T22:44:01 < mawk> you will invest in btc tomorrow
2021-10-25T22:44:21 < machinehum> Oh fuck it's up
2021-10-25T22:44:27 < mawk> it only goes up
2021-10-25T22:44:36 < machinehum> If ETH goes to 10k I'll quit my job
2021-10-25T22:44:54 < catphish> 0.226% of my money is in TSLA
2021-10-25T22:45:28 < machinehum> $.226?
2021-10-25T22:45:36 < catphish> so i won't be getting rich quick
2021-10-25T22:47:42 < catphish> englishman: you have a model 3?
2021-10-25T22:48:31 < machinehum> tsla broke 1T mkt cap lol
2021-10-25T22:48:44 < machinehum> I love anyone still buying this stock
2021-10-25T22:48:58 < machinehum> tsla to 10T mkt cap! LETS GO!
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2021-10-25T22:50:39 < catphish> a trillian dollars is more money than my brain can understand
2021-10-25T22:50:46 < catphish> how does a company be worth that much
2021-10-25T22:52:00 < machinehum> Everyone in the world buys $126 USD of tsla catphish 
2021-10-25T22:52:47 < catphish> that's... a lot
2021-10-25T22:52:58 < machinehum> I think that math makes sense
2021-10-25T22:53:39 < catphish> "makes sense" is a strong phrase here
2021-10-25T22:56:27 < specing> catphish: look, its simple
2021-10-25T22:56:45 < specing> that valuation assumes that everyone can just immidiatelly sell all TSLA shares for $1k 
2021-10-25T22:56:54 < specing> which isn't possible
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2021-10-25T22:59:20 < catphish> well, clearly if someone is willing to pay $1k for one share, it's worth $1k, but... why would someone pay that much for such a small share in the company
2021-10-25T23:00:48 < catphish> one assumes people are paying that much because either 1) they've estimated long term dividends will exceed a couple of % of $1000 or 2) everyone is just speculating
2021-10-25T23:00:56 < catphish> (on being able to resell their share)
2021-10-25T23:01:38 < englishman> catphish: yes
2021-10-25T23:01:45 < catphish> if there's a trillion dollars in it, surely it must be the former, because speculative retail investors don't *have* a trillion dollars
2021-10-25T23:11:59 < englishman> i have chatted on irc in the tesla at high speeds
2021-10-25T23:12:25 < englishman> * may not be considered high speed in germany
2021-10-25T23:19:25 < machinehum> sick
2021-10-25T23:20:40 < catphish> i hope you weren't driving it :)
2021-10-25T23:21:45 < englishman> no it was driving itself
2021-10-25T23:23:30 < catphish> does any country allow that setup?
2021-10-25T23:23:45 < catphish> (self driving car with nobody concentrating)?
2021-10-25T23:23:58 < catphish> certainly not allowed here yet
2021-10-25T23:24:07 < englishman> none
2021-10-25T23:24:27 < englishman> i think in phoenix they have empty cars with a real person watching remotely
2021-10-25T23:25:17 < specing> englishman: whats the point of that? It's still someone watching
2021-10-25T23:25:37 < englishman> idk
2021-10-25T23:25:51 < englishman> maybe they hire $3/day pakis
2021-10-25T23:36:58 < specing> oh
2021-10-25T23:37:20 < specing> that would indeed make sense
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2021-10-26T02:55:14 < machinehum> https://t.co/edJtgVBMSU
2021-10-26T02:55:16 < machinehum> ;p;
2021-10-26T02:55:18 < machinehum> lol*
2021-10-26T03:25:20 < fenugrec> englishman, wasn't DK freeship at 100CAD ? seems its @ 100USD now
2021-10-26T03:26:05 < englishman> are you on .com?
2021-10-26T03:26:48 < englishman> or .ca in USD currency?
2021-10-26T03:27:00 < fenugrec> .ca. huh it's set to USD
2021-10-26T03:27:33 < fenugrec> lol so freeship if "subtotal is >= 100 units-of-currency"
2021-10-26T03:28:22 < englishman> you know what's a real kick in the teeth
2021-10-26T03:28:27 < englishman> free shipping to japan is at $50
2021-10-26T03:28:56 < fenugrec> if you're in JP there's probably better places to order from I would think
2021-10-26T03:29:20 < englishman> and it probably doesnt arrive in 17 hours
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2021-10-26T03:53:47 < fenugrec> I almost bought some Wurth components, but just for their dumbass part numbering system, I'll buy a more expensive part
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2021-10-26T12:12:49 < karlp> returns nil if everything went ok.  returns true if we need to restart things.
2021-10-26T12:12:57 < karlp> who uses logic like that.
2021-10-26T12:13:10 < karlp> and the function isn't "is_not_ok()"
2021-10-26T12:13:36 < karlp> digikeyis 30€ to .is regardless of how much I order.
2021-10-26T12:13:41 < karlp> mouser is freeshipping over 50€
2021-10-26T12:14:03 < karlp> fenugrec: oh shit yeah, I hate wurth's numbering :)
2021-10-26T12:14:18 < karlp> so wildly inhuman.
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2021-10-26T13:52:35 < bitmask> so its been 6 weeks and my vulkan engine does less than it did at week 1
2021-10-26T13:53:53 < ventYl> that's typical turn of events. you have to break most of functionality to add some more
2021-10-26T13:54:07 < bitmask> :)
2021-10-26T13:54:33 < bitmask> its my second time rewriting it, i think im happy with how its going this time
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2021-10-26T13:55:00 < bitmask> and yea the first one wasnt customizable at all, it was all in one class too
2021-10-26T13:55:14 < srk> are you on c++21 yet?
2021-10-26T13:55:42 < bitmask> 20
2021-10-26T13:55:50 < ventYl> graphics engines simply have stages, where amount of working features declines nearly to zero to implement something new
2021-10-26T13:56:02 < bitmask> i still havent read most of the books i got
2021-10-26T13:56:07 < bitmask> i got bored of not coding
2021-10-26T13:56:11 < ventYl> i've been there several times and never pushed myself past this tage
2021-10-26T13:56:33 < bitmask> this is my first attempt at an engine
2021-10-26T13:56:33 < ventYl> but then, when I try to use some ready-made engine, I realize, it is full of fuck
2021-10-26T13:56:45 < bitmask> ive barely used opengl or directx before
2021-10-26T13:58:01 < srk> ventYl: like when you compare current ready made engines with quake 3 one :D
2021-10-26T13:58:04 < srk> unity /o\
2021-10-26T13:58:49 < ventYl> yeah, current engines are either full of fuck, or completely weird
2021-10-26T13:59:30 < srk> maybe godot but idk. I prefer lower level as well
2021-10-26T14:00:29 < ventYl> godot is actually OK, but I am not searching for an engine for game
2021-10-26T14:00:42 < bitmask> godot?
2021-10-26T14:00:44 < bitmask> gal?
2021-10-26T14:00:47 < ventYl> I need some 3D rendering abilities, but without gaming bells and whistles
2021-10-26T14:01:06 < ventYl> primarilly for 3D visualization and very primitive editinig
2021-10-26T14:01:21 < ventYl> threejs turned out to be best-suited for this :/
2021-10-26T14:01:32 < bitmask> i like making the engine because im learning how vulkan works quicker. its def not noob friendly
2021-10-26T14:01:54 < srk> ventYl: same :) not at editing stage yet tho
2021-10-26T14:02:41 < bitmask> i'll have to look at godot, never heard of it before
2021-10-26T14:03:45 < bitmask> im wondering if i wanna have it be 2D as well as 3D
2021-10-26T14:03:54 < bitmask> i think i will
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2021-10-26T14:06:30 < ventYl> godot isn't miracle and you can pretty easilly break it's performance
2021-10-26T14:06:40 < ventYl> but it's quite nice compared to unity
2021-10-26T14:06:55 < bitmask> yea i just wanna see how its set up
2021-10-26T14:07:31 < srk> proly mountains of objects
2021-10-26T14:07:36 < srk> :D
2021-10-26T14:08:09 < bitmask> I'm creating a ton of objects just to use the destructors
2021-10-26T14:08:13 < bitmask> maybe not tons...
2021-10-26T14:08:19 < bitmask> but i am just beginning
2021-10-26T14:08:40 < srk> add a factory so it creates em for you
2021-10-26T14:08:53 < bitmask> I'm up to 26 classes
2021-10-26T14:09:08 < ventYl> I'm hungry
2021-10-26T14:09:18 < bitmask> I'm not
2021-10-26T14:09:53 < bitmask> though my drugs are starting to kick in :)
2021-10-26T14:10:49 < bitmask> should I read books, read vulkan stuff online, or just code... i think im gonna code for now
2021-10-26T14:11:45 < ventYl> depends on how good you understand how graphics stuff works
2021-10-26T14:11:45 < bitmask> i wanna get my engine back to displaying a rotating model
2021-10-26T14:11:47 < ventYl> end-to-end
2021-10-26T14:13:29 < bitmask> I'm getting there.  After i finish this last class or two I should have it back to where I was with the rotating object.  Then I'll do more reading to better understand loading multiple objects and having more options to choose from depending on game status and importantly a memory loader
2021-10-26T14:13:37 < bitmask> memory manager is more accurate
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2021-10-26T14:15:15 < bitmask> with vulkan you cant just create tons of buffers, one for each object. you gotta create a buffer and subdivide it yourself
2021-10-26T14:15:26 < ventYl> that's why I would probably go first with OpenGl. it takes a lot less SLOC to get things moving. you can grasp the details easier and then just throw in vulkan stuff. possibly with rewrite of stuff which is not optimal if carried over from opengl to vulkan
2021-10-26T14:15:48 < bitmask> SLOC?
2021-10-26T14:15:57 < ventYl> but if you understand how this works, then don't waste your time with doing something you've already done
2021-10-26T14:16:01 < ventYl> source lines of code
2021-10-26T14:16:07 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-10-26T14:16:16 < bitmask> theres no point to starting with opengl
2021-10-26T14:16:28 < ventYl> well, using tons of buffers isn't prefferred way of handling things even in OpenGL
2021-10-26T14:16:32 < bitmask> ive learned pretty well in the last few months how vulkan works
2021-10-26T14:16:40 < ventYl> you have to change context, which slows rendering down
2021-10-26T14:17:26 < bitmask> i dont see a point in learning something old just because its slightly easier
2021-10-26T14:17:56 < bitmask> maybe not just slightly easier but still worth the trouble
2021-10-26T14:18:47 < srk> you still use glsl with vulkan?
2021-10-26T14:19:07 < bitmask> you write the shaders in glsl (or something else) and compile it to spir-v
2021-10-26T14:22:23 < srk> well that sounds like an improvement compared to gl where drivers implement compilers 
2021-10-26T14:22:34 < srk> is it easier to debug? :D
2021-10-26T14:22:54 < bitmask> shaders or vulkan itself?
2021-10-26T14:23:11 < srk> vulkan.. like are there good tools for that?
2021-10-26T14:23:25 < srk> like RenderDoc
2021-10-26T14:23:41 < bitmask> vulkan has these things called validation layers, theres no error checking in vulkan itself but you can enable validation layers and it will help you find problems, then when you are ready to compile for release you disable them and it runs faster
2021-10-26T14:23:42 < srk> oh it even supports vulcan now.. ofc
2021-10-26T14:23:55 < bitmask> yea renderdoc ive seen before, havent tried it though
2021-10-26T14:24:35 < srk> validation is useless if you have types and actually use them :)
2021-10-26T14:25:17 < bitmask> im not sure what validation layers check but its helped me before, i just dont remember what it was
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2021-10-26T14:45:08 < bitmask> my favorite part of c++20 is initializing a struct with named references inside curly braces
2021-10-26T14:45:21 < bitmask> its also the only thing i really know :P
2021-10-26T14:50:26 < specing> And also the part you hate the most
2021-10-26T14:51:12 < specing> Hmm, I haven't done Ada on stm32 for quite a while (or anything related to stm32)
2021-10-26T14:51:19  * specing fires up gnatstudio
2021-10-26T14:52:20 < srk> bitmask: it don't understand curly braces as initializers :/
2021-10-26T14:53:00 < bitmask> it dont? you dont?
2021-10-26T14:53:05 < srk> I
2021-10-26T14:53:20 < srk> like it's just a style thing available in c++11?
2021-10-26T14:53:21 < bitmask> you dont know how it works or you dont understand why its an option
2021-10-26T14:53:31 < bitmask> oh, one sec
2021-10-26T14:53:32 < srk> b) I guess
2021-10-26T14:54:35 < bitmask> https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/xejiferija.cpp
2021-10-26T14:54:38 < bitmask> like that
2021-10-26T14:55:03 < bitmask> just looks nicer than writing allocInfo.    over and over
2021-10-26T14:55:29 < srk> ah, ok
2021-10-26T14:55:33 < bitmask> not c++11 i think it just came out in 2-
2021-10-26T14:55:35 < bitmask> 20
2021-10-26T14:56:22 < karlp> oh yeah, that was the fucking bullshit that c++ didnt' alloow for decades, while C did.
2021-10-26T14:56:33 < karlp> made me want to throw c++ out the window.
2021-10-26T14:57:22 < bitmask> C did?
2021-10-26T14:57:47 < bitmask> interesting
2021-10-26T14:57:49 < karlp> it's since c99
2021-10-26T14:58:50 < karlp> and only c++20 or later.
2021-10-26T14:59:31 < bitmask> yup
2021-10-26T14:59:44 < bitmask> xcode just upgraded to c++20 last months
2021-10-26T14:59:46 < karlp> depending ohow well I've read, c++ still requires them to be in struct defn order too, which is not required in C.
2021-10-26T15:00:05 < bitmask> oh yea? good to know, i usually try to do that anyway
2021-10-26T15:00:44 < karlp> well, I expect it will fail to compile if you get it wrong, so hopefully no big deal
2021-10-26T15:03:16 < bitmask> xcode doesnt check before compiling and i cant really compile right now to check  that
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2021-10-26T15:40:45 < mawk> GNU C++ extensions allowed to give names to the identifiers in a struct initialization in C++
2021-10-26T15:40:48 < mawk> ...but still not to reorder them
2021-10-26T15:40:54 < mawk> but it allows you to leave gaps though 
2021-10-26T15:47:38 < qyx> huh isn't it in c99
2021-10-26T15:48:02 < qyx> oh c++ lags apparently
2021-10-26T15:48:13 < qyx> anyway who even uses c++
2021-10-26T15:48:48 < qyx> oh karlp was the first to rage
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2021-10-26T16:15:23 < karlp> cute: https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/10/26/usb-board-emulates-cr2032-or-cr2016-coin-cell-battery/
2021-10-26T16:21:51 < qyx> I though it measures current and sends it over usb
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2021-10-26T17:09:09 < karlp> could/should do that too, but no...
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2021-10-26T18:13:44 < ventYl> oho, Intel was trying to acquire SiFive
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2021-10-26T21:05:12 < catphish> hello everyone!
2021-10-26T21:06:20 < catphish> i would like to share a little bit of my day with you all!
2021-10-26T21:06:40 < catphish> this is a tesla small drive unit: https://i.imgur.com/8z27EhC.jpg
2021-10-26T21:06:52 < catphish> this is its inverter: https://i.imgur.com/z24zhTz.jpg
2021-10-26T21:07:16 < catphish> and this is its inverter with an open source stm32 logic board installed: https://i.imgur.com/hi0NVs5.jpg
2021-10-26T21:16:04 < aandrew> ooooooh
2021-10-26T21:16:45 < aandrew> barf at tag-connect, but also in awe that you have stock of stm32 somewhere
2021-10-26T21:18:04 < catphish> aandrew: this is f103, which is actually still available at jlcpcb amazingly, if you're happy to use old part and pay $$$$
2021-10-26T21:18:56 < catphish> one benefit of f103 i guess, ubiquity
2021-10-26T21:20:21 < Steffanx> for some reason that rf module like that makes me cringe.. is it even secured in anyway, catphish?
2021-10-26T21:21:43 < aandrew> catphish: is openinverter you, or just something you like to play with?
2021-10-26T21:23:04 < catphish> Steffanx: no, it's literally just held in by 8 pin headers :|
2021-10-26T21:23:36 < catphish> aandrew: no, i didn't design that, openinverter is someone else's project that various people contribute to
2021-10-26T21:24:52 < catphish> i like tag-connect by the way, though i've never used it myself
2021-10-26T21:24:57 < catphish> i like the idea of it at least
2021-10-26T21:25:52 < Steffanx> i dont hate it, i dont like it. im not sure what i think about it
2021-10-26T21:26:18 < catphish> the rf module is a crime against humanity though
2021-10-26T21:26:37 < Steffanx> yes
2021-10-26T21:26:38 < catphish> i don't know how it's supposed to not fall out when it's literally inside a vehicle motor
2021-10-26T21:26:53 < catphish> i might add some hot glue
2021-10-26T21:26:59 < catphish> hot glue fixes everything
2021-10-26T21:29:18 < catphish> i don't consider myself an expert by any stretch, but i am surprised by some of the low quality engineering that goes into these DIY vehicles
2021-10-26T21:30:38 < catphish> speaking of which, my battery interface boards are coming along nicely at jlc :)
2021-10-26T21:40:12 < ventYl> well
2021-10-26T21:40:25 < ventYl> I'd know one company which would probably employ you
2021-10-26T21:44:17 < BrainDamage> catphish: take a plastic pen, cut a V notch, and use to punt the rf module on the metal container wall
2021-10-26T21:45:05 < BrainDamage> also, is that really a rf module with internal antenna inside a giant metal shell?
2021-10-26T21:46:14 < englishman> catphish>	i like tag-connect by the way, though i've never used it myself
2021-10-26T21:46:25 < englishman> yes tag-connect is great
2021-10-26T21:46:26 < englishman> UNTIL YOU USE IT
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2021-10-26T21:50:28 < aandrew> exactly
2021-10-26T21:50:32 < aandrew> it's a great idea in theory
2021-10-26T21:50:59 < aandrew> nothing you can't replicate cheaper to get the pogo pin press to program, and a regular old box connector (which I see it also has) for debugging
2021-10-26T21:55:58 < catphish> BrainDamage: lol yes, it's really only for config / tuning though, it works well enough
2021-10-26T21:56:47 < catphish> aandrew: i've always wondered what pads would be good for programming small production runs
2021-10-26T21:57:00 < catphish> tag-connect seems like it *should* be ideal
2021-10-26T21:57:06 < catphish> ventYl: who's that?
2021-10-26T21:59:59 < BrainDamage> I hope also the interface has some form of authentication
2021-10-26T22:00:19 < BrainDamage> otherwise you risk random people fucking with your car
2021-10-26T22:00:43 < catphish> only WPA2-PSK, which is almost definitely good enough
2021-10-26T22:01:03 < BrainDamage> yeah, good enough
2021-10-26T22:02:05 < catphish> it's cool being able to tune stuff with a simple wifi connection thouhg
2021-10-26T22:02:13 < ventYl> catphish: my ex-employer. they are failing to develop battery management system for years
2021-10-26T22:02:42 < kakium69> why
2021-10-26T22:02:53 < ventYl> does it have CAN? if yes, then use something like BT<=>CAN converter and talk to it via CAN
2021-10-26T22:03:04 < ventYl> kakium69: because they are stupid stubborn germans
2021-10-26T22:03:07 < kakium69> is this early BEV era?
2021-10-26T22:03:15 < kakium69> or something recent
2021-10-26T22:07:23 < catphish> ventYl: i see, it doesn't really seem that hard to me
2021-10-26T22:08:26 < ventYl> well, it has to be ASIL D, so you have to make sure your measurement equipment is OK by performing validation measurements
2021-10-26T22:08:28 < catphish> this thing does have CAN, i don't know why they decided an integrated wifi module was a better way to configure it than CAN
2021-10-26T22:08:47 < catphish> ventYl: ah, that's indeed more complicated
2021-10-26T22:09:07 < ventYl> but those are transient effects and stupid germans only realized transient nature, when it kicked master switch off due to Battery-on-fire alarm
2021-10-26T22:09:22 < catphish> i'm lucky, the batteries i'm buying have an integrated board with ADC and bleed resistors, so they just need to be told what to do
2021-10-26T22:09:32 < catphish> the difficult precision engineering is done by the battery maker
2021-10-26T22:09:35 < catphish> so i suppose i'm cheating
2021-10-26T22:10:29 < catphish> this module i've been working on the last 2 weeks translates messages between proprietary battery interface and CAN for that purpose
2021-10-26T22:10:42 < BrainDamage> catphish: oh, and I forgot, if you go for the punt solution, drill a matching shallow hole in the case, so it won't slide
2021-10-26T22:19:54 < kakium69> not cheating
2021-10-26T22:20:07 < kakium69> it's just being generally smart about it
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2021-10-26T22:26:54 < kakium69> besides battery monitor would be just grunt work to do yourself
2021-10-26T22:27:15 < kakium69> pay more, use time more, but get the same result
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2021-10-26T22:33:26 < kakium69> and what kind of battery pack you get without monitor?
2021-10-26T22:37:18 < catphish> i'd say most betteries designed to be used as part of larger packs don't have integrated monitoring
2021-10-26T22:37:51 < catphish> because the monitor can't do much unless it has an external device to coordinate anyway
2021-10-26T22:38:17 < catphish> easier just to expose taps for each cell, and let the customer choose their own BMS solution
2021-10-26T22:38:43 < catphish> i'm very happy with these devices i have though, i just need to create the central controller
2021-10-26T22:44:45 < kakium69> but you need 400volts basically every time
2021-10-26T22:45:04 < kakium69> and you can only monitor up to 16 cells per one IC
2021-10-26T22:46:54 < catphish> that's the problem
2021-10-26T22:47:35 < catphish> so one needs a central controller to gather data and make wider decisions
2021-10-26T22:48:32 < kakium69> is it?
2021-10-26T22:48:47 < catphish> well yes
2021-10-26T22:48:53 < kakium69> in what sense?
2021-10-26T22:49:25 < catphish> well, to balance, something nees to work out the lowest voltage in the whole back, then balance down to that voltage
2021-10-26T22:49:32 < catphish> *whole pack
2021-10-26T22:49:40 < catphish> so an individual battery module can't do that on its own
2021-10-26T22:50:34 < catphish> this is a problem, but only in so much as that one needs another device to be involved
2021-10-26T22:51:06 < catphish> my interface board communicates with up to 16 battery modules (16 * 16 cells), in theory it could do the management, but i decided to make it a dumb CAN interface instead
2021-10-26T22:55:19 < kakium69> https://youtu.be/C5a6zHLJ84o?t=581
2021-10-26T22:55:28 < kakium69> 250hp
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2021-10-26T22:58:36 < kakium69> catphish: you don't need to balance all the way from empty
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2021-10-26T23:03:12 < catphish> kakium69: well one needs to choose a specific point to balance at, another reason why some kind of external controller is needed
2021-10-26T23:06:22 < kakium69> too early and the lowest voltage "cell" will pass the higher voltage ones
2021-10-26T23:06:35 < kakium69> as it's the lowest capacity
2021-10-26T23:06:49 < kakium69> too late and you need to limit current
2021-10-26T23:09:19 < kakium69> it can be done way more complex too
2021-10-26T23:11:10 < catphish> IMO the simplest way is just to charge until one cell hits full charge, then initiate balance to bring all cells in line
2021-10-26T23:11:17 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-26T23:11:37 < catphish> that way you always balance at the same point
2021-10-26T23:12:13 < catphish> no magic needed, and because it's an EV, you aren't trying to charge to 100%, so no need for repeating the process
2021-10-26T23:12:13 < kakium69> you may need to limit current but you basically have full battery by then
2021-10-26T23:13:00 < catphish> nothing so complex just charge to a set voltage (it won't be 100% charge anyway) then balance at that point, do that every time, and they shouldn't get far out of balance
2021-10-26T23:13:15 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-26T23:14:47 < kakium69> it's different story if you try to get highest safe voltage for all cells and arrive to highest safe voltage all cells at once
2021-10-26T23:15:24 < catphish> well, the theory goes... balance them all at top voltage, charge and repeat until they're all there
2021-10-26T23:15:32 < catphish> then next time, they should all get there at the same time
2021-10-26T23:15:40 < kakium69> eventually
2021-10-26T23:16:12 < catphish> as long as you balance occasionally at that max voltage, they should all hit it at the same time
2021-10-26T23:16:17 < catphish> (i think)
2021-10-26T23:16:25 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-26T23:16:51 < catphish> the other option is bottom balancing, but i've never seen the appeal
2021-10-26T23:17:04 < kakium69> it doesn't even make sense
2021-10-26T23:17:24 < catphish> it's really not that different, balance at minimum voltage, then they should all reach empty at the same time
2021-10-26T23:17:34 < catphish> the overall range should end up the same
2021-10-26T23:18:09 < kakium69> ah
2021-10-26T23:18:21 < kakium69> lowest capacity cell is always the limit
2021-10-26T23:18:22 < catphish> to me, it makes sense to balance at whatever point the voltage per coulomb of charge is the most
2021-10-26T23:18:35 < catphish> then you can get the most accurate result
2021-10-26T23:19:19 < catphish> but ultimately, your total capacity is the capacity (max v to min v) of the smallest cell, no matter what point you balance at
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2021-10-26T23:20:26 < catphish> the point is just to make sure you use the complete range of the smallest cell, without any of the others exceeding their limits
2021-10-26T23:20:29 < catphish> that's it :)
2021-10-26T23:20:41 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-26T23:21:16 < catphish> at least this is my understanding, it doesn't matter at what voltage you balance, as long as it's consistent
2021-10-26T23:21:25 < catphish> i would choose top balance, and do it after each charge
2021-10-26T23:24:51 < kakium69> it's true
2021-10-26T23:25:17 < catphish> by only using a limited range of charge (like 15% to 85% it should be easy to look after the cells and maximize battery life, this is my plan
2021-10-26T23:25:41 < catphish> i don't plan to drive far
2021-10-26T23:28:32 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-26T23:28:56 < kakium69> plan is good
2021-10-26T23:31:45 < catphish> marvellous
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2021-10-26T23:42:33 < Steffanx> So, they replaced the EGR valve again and now all is fine, kakium69 . Not sure what they fucked up, but they did.
2021-10-26T23:44:41 < kakium69> did you pay one or two egr valve changes
2021-10-26T23:45:30 < Steffanx> Hah, just 1. For now.
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2021-10-26T23:54:42 < Steffanx> Got some spare time kakium69 ?
2021-10-26T23:55:16 < Steffanx> Maybe you can drive to dutchland and replace the timing chain of my car, for less than 800 euro bucks.
2021-10-26T23:55:36 < kakium69> how much are the parts?
2021-10-26T23:57:14 < kakium69> if I drive my passat there it will cost me more than 800euro - per direction - only the cost of gasoline
2021-10-26T23:57:25 < kakium69> I'd rather fly
2021-10-26T23:57:54 < Steffanx> 80e or something 
2021-10-26T23:58:10 < Steffanx> But apparently its a time consuming job 
2021-10-26T23:58:23 < kakium69> how about auxiliary belt and rollers?
--- Day changed Wed Oct 27 2021
2021-10-27T00:01:14 < Steffanx> No clue 
2021-10-27T00:02:05 < kakium69> usually changed with timing belt but as you have timing chain maybe not
2021-10-27T00:02:23 < kakium69> how many kilometers you have clocked to your odometer?
2021-10-27T00:02:30 < Steffanx> 200k
2021-10-27T00:03:07 < kakium69> why are you planning to change timing chain?
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2021-10-27T00:03:29 < Steffanx> Because its adviced to do so, they do tend to break. 
2021-10-27T00:03:30 < qyx> I changed at 250k
2021-10-27T00:03:51 < Steffanx> Too many "horror" stories on the web
2021-10-27T00:04:08 < qyx> it was about 130e for parts and 200e for work
2021-10-27T00:04:13 < Steffanx> What car did/do you have?
2021-10-27T00:04:27 < qyx> together with all brakes with discs it was 590 iirxc
2021-10-27T00:04:28 < Steffanx> Dutchland rates are much higher I bet
2021-10-27T00:04:35 < kakium69> belt usually does like 100k - 150k
2021-10-27T00:05:00 < qyx> Steffanx: astra 1.9tdi
2021-10-27T00:05:09 < catphish> change it to electric, simples
2021-10-27T00:05:36 < Steffanx> Ah good family car :D
2021-10-27T00:06:10 < qyx> astra h actually
2021-10-27T00:06:39 < catphish> astra is a sane car, opc is cool :)
2021-10-27T00:07:21 < catphish> i nearly bought an astra opc, but went with golf instead because i don't like electric parking brake
2021-10-27T00:08:08 < Steffanx> I never use my parking brake.
2021-10-27T00:08:17 < Steffanx> Ok, hardly use it
2021-10-27T00:10:23 < kakium69> I don't use parking brake because winter has taught me
2021-10-27T00:10:59 < kakium69> to leave it to 1st gear
2021-10-27T00:11:27 < kakium69> instead
2021-10-27T00:12:14 < kakium69> Steffanx: so did they fail to implement timing chain propperly?
2021-10-27T00:12:38 < Steffanx> Who? 
2021-10-27T00:12:43 < Steffanx> Fiat?
2021-10-27T00:12:44 < kakium69> fiat
2021-10-27T00:13:41 < kakium69> all timing chain unkillable machines that I know go moon and back without chain replace
2021-10-27T00:13:53 < Steffanx> Idk. Its also a proper maintenance thing. And bad luck maybe 
2021-10-27T00:14:17 < Steffanx> But yeah, maybe also a fuck up by fiat
2021-10-27T00:15:24 < catphish> kakium69: i leave my car in gear too, but i use parking brake automatically when i stop
2021-10-27T00:15:27 < Steffanx> And there is something with wear of the tensioners.
2021-10-27T00:15:28 < catphish> so it's on anyway
2021-10-27T00:16:26 < Steffanx> Its on automagically or you do it automagically?
2021-10-27T00:16:56 < catphish> i guess that's why i don't like electric parking brakes, i use the brake always when i stop, i use it for hill starts, even though this is automated in modern cars, just the way i was taught to drive and it's stuck
2021-10-27T00:20:26 < kakium69> Steffanx: it's always the tensioner failing
2021-10-27T00:21:46 < catphish> kakium69: with a chain?
2021-10-27T00:21:51 < kakium69> ye
2021-10-27T00:23:16 < ventYl> many chain tensioners have braindead stupid design
2021-10-27T00:23:24 < ventYl> especially early VW ones
2021-10-27T00:23:35 < catphish> i didn't know timing chains *ever* failed
2021-10-27T00:23:58 < ventYl> surprisingly, they were able to design bulletproof chain tensioner for V8 in late '80s
2021-10-27T00:24:11 < ventYl> catphish: HTP engines from VW/Skoda are well known for this
2021-10-27T00:24:28 < qyx> uh hill startusing a parking brake
2021-10-27T00:24:41 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MybsY3D4eYFLKmFcEVU8CR4AXbc0kjbF/view?usp=sharing 2018 the sled had bad tensioner oopsie
2021-10-27T00:24:55 < ventYl> also many motorcycle timing chains can "jump" if tensioner is in last 30% of it's travel
2021-10-27T00:25:06 < kakium69> no compression as you see
2021-10-27T00:25:28 < catphish> qyx: it's easy if you learned that way :)
2021-10-27T00:25:46 < kakium69> there was bulletin from yamaha for bad tensioners
2021-10-27T00:26:22 < ventYl> and honda, and suzuki and kawasaki, as at one period of time, they all been using same tensioners with lack of tension
2021-10-27T00:26:24 < kakium69> unfortunatelly I found it after the engine bent the valves
2021-10-27T00:27:26 < catphish> i once bought a car that i think had been repaired after a timing belt failure
2021-10-27T00:28:06 < ventYl> why do you think so?
2021-10-27T00:28:19 < zyp> I once had the timing belt snap while I were in the middle of a long trip
2021-10-27T00:28:33 < catphish> it was a long time ago, but i think that's what they told me when i bought it
2021-10-27T00:29:58 < catphish> anyway, it was good for 18 months, then the bracket that connects the piston to the shaft snapped off and was fired through the sump, that was messy
2021-10-27T00:30:17 < zyp> I do like electric parking brake, absolutely don't want to go back to manual :p
2021-10-27T00:30:29 < ventYl> better than the case which neighbour was dealing with
2021-10-27T00:30:54 < catphish> "rod cap" i think it's called, flew off, punched a hole on the sump, and dumped all my oil onto the hot exhust :)
2021-10-27T00:30:57 < ventYl> he was servicing hydraulic valve clearence devices on very neglected engine
2021-10-27T00:31:12 < catphish> smokey mess :)
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2021-10-27T00:31:38 < ventYl> he managed to put cams into engine incorrectly, so he wasn't able to fire the engine for about a week
2021-10-27T00:32:10 < ventYl> then he put it together correctly, returned car to the customer and then customer damaged engine whilst driving without oil pressure
2021-10-27T00:32:17 < ventYl> after three days
2021-10-27T00:32:20 < catphish> i found the rod cap in the road afterwards, near the smear of oil
2021-10-27T00:33:04 < ventYl> catphish: this stuff usually doesn't fall off suddenly, your connecting rod probably snapped, rotated and punctured sump
2021-10-27T00:33:16 < ventYl> which ultimately led to crack in rod cap, which then flew off
2021-10-27T00:33:50 < catphish> ventYl: sounds plausible, i really don't know the root cause, only that the sump was punctured, and the cap was lying in the road
2021-10-27T00:33:52 < zyp> my old volvo had a non interference engine, so after the timing belt snapped, it was just a matter of putting on a new before it was good to go
2021-10-27T00:34:11 < catphish> zyp: nice :)
2021-10-27T00:34:37 < catphish> there's really so much less to go wrong with an EV motor
2021-10-27T00:34:38 < zyp> the bad part was that it happened in the middle of winter, so I had to wait three hours in -25C to get picked up :p
2021-10-27T00:35:18 < catphish> nothing in an EV motor has much scope for failure, just worn bearings
2021-10-27T00:35:21 < ventYl> you could set your volvo in fire
2021-10-27T00:35:37 < zyp> haha
2021-10-27T00:36:07 < kakium69> how old volvo has non-interference engine?
2021-10-27T00:36:14 < zyp> 92
2021-10-27T00:36:44 < zyp> btw, we sold the old EV on sunday, even drove it 130-something km to the new buyer
2021-10-27T00:36:44 < ventYl> that's not old car
2021-10-27T00:36:48 < zyp> had to stop three times to charge
2021-10-27T00:36:51 < kakium69> "box volvos" are getting more expensives here
2021-10-27T00:36:58 < kakium69> rear wheel drive
2021-10-27T00:36:59 < zyp> yeah, here too
2021-10-27T00:37:03 < kakium69> inline 5
2021-10-27T00:37:04 < catphish> zyp: that's generous of you!
2021-10-27T00:37:06 < zyp> kinda wish I kept it
2021-10-27T00:37:23 < kakium69> then that inline 5 in turbocharged to maximum
2021-10-27T00:37:39 < catphish> my EV is more expensive than yours and it doesn't even have a motor yet :(
2021-10-27T00:37:51 < ventYl> is that inline 5 descendant of VW inline 5, or is it some different inline 5 engine?
2021-10-27T00:37:52 < zyp> catphish, guy was supposed to pick it up last week, but couldn't find anybody to drive him here
2021-10-27T00:37:58 < zyp> and I wanted it gone
2021-10-27T00:38:05 < catphish> fair enough
2021-10-27T00:38:28 < kakium69> ventYl: I think lolvo did all their engines themselfs back then
2021-10-27T00:38:37 < kakium69> *by themselfs
2021-10-27T00:38:38 < zyp> but I think it's probably a good thing
2021-10-27T00:38:57 < catphish> the guy i bought my VX220 from offered to drive it to me, then i messed him about, and got the car cheaper in an ebay auction, and he was busy moving house, so i had to pay someone to transport it
2021-10-27T00:38:58 < Steffanx> 130km.. 3 stops? Joy :)
2021-10-27T00:39:02 < catphish> still saved money overall :)
2021-10-27T00:39:07 < zyp> you're probably not gonna love EVs if your first time driving one is a charging hell :p
2021-10-27T00:39:46 < catphish> i think my 950kg car is gonna be efficient on charging at least
2021-10-27T00:40:01 < ventYl> kakium69: I don't know lolvo history. and the one, I plan to buy if my current car breaks anytime soon has japanese engine
2021-10-27T00:40:03 < zyp> young guy, wanted it because he was commuting 15km to school on an electric scooter, and that was getting cold this time of the year :p
2021-10-27T00:40:11 < catphish> small battery, fast charge, low weight
2021-10-27T00:40:18 < catphish> lol
2021-10-27T00:40:28 < catphish> amazing that a student can already afford an EV
2021-10-27T00:40:36 < ventYl> catphish: how many Wh were you able to fit into it? and how heavy the batpack is?
2021-10-27T00:40:37 < zyp> I don't think you're gonna find a cheaper car to commute 15km with
2021-10-27T00:41:11 < kakium69> catphish: small battery -> small nominal amperage
2021-10-27T00:41:12 < qyx> zyp: the vw one?
2021-10-27T00:41:17 < zyp> no, the peugeot ion
2021-10-27T00:41:26 < qyx> or the other I can't remember
2021-10-27T00:41:30 < zyp> we're keeping the egolf
2021-10-27T00:41:31 < kakium69> how much amps you can pull nominally catphish?
2021-10-27T00:41:31 < qyx> oh wifecar
2021-10-27T00:41:35 < zyp> yeah
2021-10-27T00:41:55 < ventYl> I would consider an EV for commuting, but right now, I am not even commuting
2021-10-27T00:42:06 < ventYl> so it makes no sense to buy another spacehogger for 10k
2021-10-27T00:42:09 < kakium69> not commuting is the bestest option
2021-10-27T00:42:12 < catphish> ventYl: the battery modules i'm using are 1,800 WH, i will likely fit 12 of them in my car
2021-10-27T00:42:43 < zyp> 21.6 kWh? that's less than the egolf :)
2021-10-27T00:42:48 < catphish> so, 21,600 WH
2021-10-27T00:43:05 < zyp> how fast are you expecting to charge them?
2021-10-27T00:43:05 < ventYl> yeah, but egolf probably weights twice as much as this
2021-10-27T00:43:08 < catphish> yes, it will be a very small pack, but the goal is lightweight performance, not range :)
2021-10-27T00:43:28 < kakium69> how much amps?
2021-10-27T00:44:56 < zyp> < Steffanx> 130km.. 3 stops? Joy :)
2021-10-27T00:45:11 < zyp> yeah, my wife were like «it's good we made this trip, now I'm not gonna miss this car»
2021-10-27T00:46:04 < catphish> it'll be 96s, so 365V nominal, so 21,600 means 60A at 1C, it'll have a 6.6kW charger, which is 27A at 240V, so 2h for a full charge
2021-10-27T00:46:23 < zyp> car has like 70-something km of range at this time of the year, it's just that charging speed is dropping off so fucking early
2021-10-27T00:46:51 < zyp> wat?
2021-10-27T00:47:05 < zyp> two hours of 6.6kW is 13.2kW
2021-10-27T00:47:39 < catphish> zyp: so it is, something in my maths is retard
2021-10-27T00:47:50 < kakium69> no battery heating ofc zyp?
2021-10-27T00:47:59 < zyp> idk
2021-10-27T00:48:16 < zyp> anyway, glad to be rid of it
2021-10-27T00:48:29 < zyp> ended up selling it for 20k NOK, i.e. 2k EUR
2021-10-27T00:48:36 < mawk> kWh you mean
2021-10-27T00:48:41 < zyp> yes
2021-10-27T00:48:43 < mawk> a
2021-10-27T00:48:54 < mawk> NOK sounds like a lame currency
2021-10-27T00:48:59 < mawk> why don't you use € like everyone else
2021-10-27T00:49:06 < kakium69> catphish: how much amps you can give to inverter?
2021-10-27T00:49:06 < catphish> oh, i calculated the battery voltage as 240V, i'm a tard :)
2021-10-27T00:49:11 < zyp> we're not part of EU
2021-10-27T00:49:15 < mawk> ah yes
2021-10-27T00:49:23 < mawk> what a weird thing to do
2021-10-27T00:49:40 < ventYl> not really, if you don't follow the UK example
2021-10-27T00:50:09 < catphish> but yeah, the calculation is trivial, 6.6kW charger into 21.6kW battery is 3.3 hours
2021-10-27T00:50:28 < catphish> ventYl: i'm offended, UK is best country
2021-10-27T00:50:51 < catphish> we are so much superior to EU we don't need membership, duh
2021-10-27T00:51:37 < zyp> catphish, so when you're out on a trip and run out of battery, you're gonna just sit down and wait for three and a half hours?
2021-10-27T00:52:20 < catphish> zyp: no, my intention is not to exceed battery range from home
2021-10-27T00:52:29 < kakium69> it's not exactly a trip car
2021-10-27T00:52:38 < zyp> I did that once, when I were driving north five years ago, was a stretch between two fast chargers that I couldn't make on a charge
2021-10-27T00:52:42 < kakium69> if it's 21kwh
2021-10-27T00:52:44 < catphish> this is a sports car, not a touring car :)
2021-10-27T00:53:02 < zyp> so I stopped at a restaurant, plugged in, ate dinner, took a walk
2021-10-27T00:53:11 < zyp> waited a bit more
2021-10-27T00:53:20 < zyp> and then I could go
2021-10-27T00:53:35 < catphish> with that said, if i go anywhere with a charger, i will charge, even an hour is a substantial boost
2021-10-27T00:54:12 < ventYl> catphish: my congratulations to your offense
2021-10-27T00:54:15 < zyp> and then the day after I encountered a fast charger that didn't work, with no alternatives around, so I ended up waiting for another four hours there
2021-10-27T00:55:00 < catphish> zyp: i'm wondering if it's worth adding a DC charging interface too
2021-10-27T00:55:13 < catphish> i've never seen a DC charger though
2021-10-27T00:55:24 < zyp> catphish, I'm not sure I understand the purpose of your car, what fun is a car you can't drive much? :p
2021-10-27T00:55:45 < SystemError> catphish> aren't most chargers rectify AC anyway?
2021-10-27T00:56:37 < catphish> SystemError: there are 2 types of charging sockets, one is just an AC supply where the charger is in the car, the other is a DC supply, where the charger is in the building
2021-10-27T00:57:07 < zyp> I also tried charging the new car on sunday: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ty36S.jpg
2021-10-27T00:57:10 < ventYl> DC is probably only usable for large currents
2021-10-27T00:57:12 < catphish> all cars have an AC to DC charger in them, but it's fairly low power
2021-10-27T00:57:39 < ventYl> will you be able to accept more current, than 3x25A @ 240V gives you?
2021-10-27T00:57:45 < catphish> but some cars also have a DC plug (direct path the the battery) and can charge faster using a high power charger in the building it's plugged into
2021-10-27T00:58:14 < zyp> ventYl, with a DC charger? that's the point
2021-10-27T00:58:20 < zyp> see the picture I posted :)
2021-10-27T00:58:40 < ventYl> zyp: 1) I am asking catphish 2) I am asking for battery side, not charger side
2021-10-27T00:59:01 < zyp> the battery? probably
2021-10-27T00:59:34 < catphish> ventYl: yes, as mentioned earlier, batteries are 21,000 WH, charger in the vehicle will be 6.6kWH, that means batteries can take more than the charger can supply at 1C
2021-10-27T00:59:56 < ventYl> without negative effect on lifetime?
2021-10-27T01:00:01 < zyp> EV batteries tends to do 2-3C
2021-10-27T01:00:13 < catphish> ventYl: yes and no, 1C is pretty safe, but slower is always better
2021-10-27T01:00:25 < ventYl> then I'd probably go with DC charger too. it probably isn't complicated anyway
2021-10-27T01:00:29 < ventYl> except of huuuuuuuuuuuuuge wires
2021-10-27T01:00:47 < catphish> adding the DC charger should be easy enough, so seems worthwhile
2021-10-27T01:00:48 < zyp> I disagree
2021-10-27T01:01:01 < zyp> the comms with the charger is the complicated part
2021-10-27T01:01:06 < catphish> and in my case, it's only 60A, so not crazy wiring
2021-10-27T01:01:31 < catphish> comms can't be that hard, right?
2021-10-27T01:01:46 < zyp> hard enough that compatibility issues are a thing
2021-10-27T01:01:49 < catphish> i haven't looked into the protocols yet
2021-10-27T01:02:21 < catphish> the protocol for AC charging is simple at least
2021-10-27T01:02:32 < zyp> CCS is some xml stuff over IP over powerline comms :)
2021-10-27T01:02:55 < zyp> chademo is can based, but I don't know how the layers above are
2021-10-27T01:03:03 < catphish> really? REALLY?!
2021-10-27T01:03:27 < zyp> CCS? yes
2021-10-27T01:03:37 < catphish> who the fuck uses XML for an open standard, for a power connection, in this century?
2021-10-27T01:03:47 < zyp> european carmakers
2021-10-27T01:03:56 < zyp> or whoever started the CCS standard
2021-10-27T01:04:24 < catphish> but what do i know, after a week of moderate sobriety, i'm enjoying copious quantities of rum tonight
2021-10-27T01:04:29 < zyp> either way, CCS is the european standard, 
2021-10-27T01:04:38 < catphish> i do need to read up on CCS though
2021-10-27T01:04:49 < catphish> because commercial implementations are really expensive
2021-10-27T01:04:58 < zyp> chademo is still common, but seems to be just kept around for the benefit of legacy cars now
2021-10-27T01:05:33 < zyp> from a user perspective, CCS is very much preferable
2021-10-27T01:07:24 < ventYl> I can understand XML usage
2021-10-27T01:07:34 < qyx> fuck xml
2021-10-27T01:07:51 < ventYl> it's actually one of better stuff automotive is using
2021-10-27T01:08:36 < ventYl> they could easilly be firing some binary garbage
2021-10-27T01:08:51 < ventYl> that's probably what the other one does
2021-10-27T01:09:06 < ventYl> UDS over CanOpen or something
2021-10-27T01:13:11 < qyx> oh chademo soumnds like a great and generic concept
2021-10-27T01:13:39 < qyx> it is actually bidir
2021-10-27T01:13:51 < qyx> and has smart grid capabilities
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2021-10-27T01:20:46 < SystemError> catphish> do you implement charger yourself?
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2021-10-27T01:41:00 < kakium69> it wouldn't make any sense
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2021-10-27T01:45:04 < catphish> zyp: ccs does seem to be the prevailing option
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2021-10-27T01:45:45 < catphish> SystemError: charger is several things implemented by several systems annoyingly
2021-10-27T01:46:20 < catphish> hopefully i won't need to implement any of it myself, but it depends what's available
2021-10-27T01:47:02 < SystemError> catphish> I wonder.. that screen listed like 700V - is it "direct" batt voltage like that? Or dcdc input?
2021-10-27T01:47:29 < catphish> ventYl: IMO binary garbage is the correct solution, assuming properly documented
2021-10-27T01:47:51 < catphish> SystemError: where?
2021-10-27T01:48:33 < SystemError> someone here posted https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ty36S.jpg screen
2021-10-27T01:49:03 < catphish> DC charging means the charger needs to match battery voltage, people use some pretty high voltages
2021-10-27T01:49:06 < SystemError> p.s. xml over ip in charger... what a batshit
2021-10-27T01:49:33 < catphish> so yeah, 700v isn't unreasonable
2021-10-27T01:49:52 < catphish> one of the cars i'm working on right now is 650V DC
2021-10-27T01:51:45 < zyp> SystemError, battery voltage
2021-10-27T01:52:07 < SystemError> ah so it direct link w/o dcdc on the way?
2021-10-27T01:53:21 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-27T01:54:26 < zyp> the dcdc is in the cabinet with the screen :)
2021-10-27T01:55:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JNGkr.jpg
2021-10-27T01:56:50 < SystemError> logical to some extent - but if that really uses xml, oh gods...
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2021-10-27T02:07:16 < upgrdman> chrome just updated something, and now the "star" button to bookmark a page pop's up a menu instead of instantly creating a bookmark. anyone know how to disable that shit and get back to one-click-to-bookmark?
2021-10-27T02:17:51 < fenugrec> "warms everyone who works at night, so careful" - ??? https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImage/A1DS_131896598063519282Gn8SqyM0Lk.jpg
2021-10-27T02:29:08 < karlp> Steffanx: you don't use a parking brake because you live in holland...
2021-10-27T02:38:04 < karlp> xml is just json from the before times, perfectly fine....
2021-10-27T02:38:28 < karlp> problem ios that people think xml is just angles, and then pretend to not know about namespaces and schemas :|
2021-10-27T02:38:37 < karlp> so much bad work done in teh soap world :(
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2021-10-27T02:43:01 < kakium69> fenugrec: I have 2 of those
2021-10-27T02:43:13 < kakium69> like 1eur shipped from china
2021-10-27T02:43:30 < kakium69> now I have backlit keyboard
2021-10-27T02:45:34 < kakium69> which I have disabled because of the most annoying flicker I have ever seen
2021-10-27T02:53:20 < fenugrec> kakium69, you have the bendy light crap or the USB hub ? that photo is actually in the ad for the hub
2021-10-27T02:53:44 < kakium69> light of
2021-10-27T02:53:51 < kakium69> it also is warm
2021-10-27T02:54:18 < kakium69> for the amount of light it produces it gets pretty warm
2021-10-27T02:56:52 < fenugrec> wonder if they stuck an incandescent in there
2021-10-27T02:56:55 < fenugrec> but that would not flicker
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2021-10-27T03:07:02 < kakium69> no
2021-10-27T03:07:17 < kakium69> my keyboard flickers
2021-10-27T03:07:23 < kakium69> not that usb thing
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2021-10-27T03:45:37 < m4t> should 1000 micros() always equal 1 millis()? like, are they full synchronized. on stm32f103 w/ st arduino core
2021-10-27T03:46:08 < m4t> i'm modifying the Time library to have gettimeofday/settimeofday and use micros() instead of millis() as the basis for seconds... just wondering if there's going to be some inherent inaccuracy due to that
2021-10-27T03:46:41 < m4t> beyond the fact that it may take some microseconds to call various functions
2021-10-27T03:53:20 < m4t> some 'SysTick control and status register' vs HAL_GetTick() per hardware/stm32/2.1.0/libraries/SrcWrapper/src/stm32/clock.c in the ~/.arduino15 package dir
2021-10-27T04:04:27 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/hxL1vI7.png
2021-10-27T04:04:28 < bitmask> heehee
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2021-10-27T08:33:16 < jpa-> m4t: dunno on stm32 arduino core, but on AVR the millis() is totally stupid and sometimes goes 2 ticks and sometimes 1 tick because of some divider silliness
2021-10-27T08:33:40 < m4t> yeah, i ran into that on an atmega328 board with 10mhz crystal
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2021-10-27T08:33:53 < m4t> switching to MiniCore fixed it
2021-10-27T08:34:10 < m4t> (millis() impl with other clock freqs accounted for)
2021-10-27T08:34:35 < m4t> it seems to be accurate afaict
2021-10-27T08:34:50 < jpa-> my guess is that STM32 millis() comes from a counter incremented by systick interrupt, while micros() would come from the hardware counter
2021-10-27T08:35:04 < jpa-> so that they are synchronized as long as you have interrupts enabled
2021-10-27T08:35:25 < m4t> it's matching up precisely to a hardware timer anyways
2021-10-27T08:36:01 < m4t> i do, most of the time
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2021-10-27T08:36:54 < jpa-> e.g. looping for long time inside an interrupt handler, you would probably see micros() ticking around but millis() being frozen
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2021-10-27T08:40:24 < m4t> i'm actually indirectly measuring drift (pulse every 1s via hardware timer), and system time based on micros()
2021-10-27T08:41:23 < m4t> there's a task that corrects the pulse timer based on system time drift. doesn't seem to be anything major, but the threshold of the monitor is set to 200us currently
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2021-10-27T14:04:31 < srk> hmm. new accucell 6 charger comes with USB and should be able to log data over uart but when plugged there's no tty but input: SILICON LABORATORIES C8051F3xx Development Board
2021-10-27T14:12:24 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: HelloShitty, steve__, c4017w
2021-10-27T14:12:32 < srk> looks like vm & wireshark time 
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2021-10-27T14:15:56 < karlp> button stuck down and it's in some bootloader mode?
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2021-10-27T14:37:33 < srk> yeah first I thought that it either lacks firmware for USB converter or is using some weird pid/vid but looks like it just works on windows xD
2021-10-27T14:37:58 < srk> MEGAWIN MA84G564
2021-10-27T14:38:06 < srk> 80C51 clone :D
2021-10-27T14:39:25 < srk> how hard it could be .. :(
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2021-10-27T21:07:19 < bitmask> thank you #pragma clang diagnostic push/pop
2021-10-27T21:07:31 < bitmask> for getting rid of 2086 warnings
2021-10-27T21:10:30 < Steffanx> You're welcome
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2021-10-27T21:51:44 < bitmask> I'm such a loon
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2021-10-27T22:12:37 < kakium69> hello dope32
2021-10-27T22:13:26 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffppiF5v-U here is some insane ambient for you
2021-10-27T22:16:38 < kakium69> good for dreaming
2021-10-27T22:17:06 < ventYl> don't dream and drive
2021-10-27T22:21:51 < kakium69> last night I was falling asleep when a video "A MILLION MPH" had this track. had to look up the soundtracks
2021-10-27T22:25:37 < Steffanx> time for more similarish music then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbWmzoL4FwM
2021-10-27T22:26:52 < kakium69> nah
2021-10-27T22:27:00 < kakium69> ambient doesn't have orchestra
2021-10-27T22:27:23 < Steffanx> doesnt matter its semi related to your driving music :P
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2021-10-27T22:28:00 < kakium69> I don't listen ambient and drive
2021-10-27T22:28:11 < kakium69> it's not safe
2021-10-27T22:30:31 < kakium69> I listen mainly tacky pop songs in car
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2021-10-27T22:30:47 < Steffanx> you mean awful modern pop?
2021-10-27T22:30:53 < kakium69> and older pops
2021-10-27T22:32:22 < kakium69> trance, lounge, eurodance from 90's, italo from 80's
2021-10-27T22:32:39 < kakium69> 2000s pops
2021-10-27T22:33:26 -!- alan_o [~alan@2600:1700:b420:54b8:8860:a523:6ad5:8234] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-10-27T22:34:37 < kakium69> house from 90's
2021-10-27T22:36:57 < Steffanx> So time for "Inspiring Pop Builds" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZXuD75fPFo :P
2021-10-27T22:42:58 < kakium69> sounds almost like generic advert musics
2021-10-27T22:43:13 < kakium69> step up your game steff
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2021-10-27T22:44:08 < Steffanx> it IS  exactly that kakium69 :P
2021-10-27T22:44:38 < kakium69> are you music trolling me now?
2021-10-27T22:45:04 < Steffanx> maybe
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2021-10-27T22:46:09 < Steffanx> More random music then kakium69: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OzyIfPCEEo
2021-10-27T22:46:18 < kakium69> lets see
2021-10-27T22:47:39 < Steffanx> apparently so random that it is only 6 days old (this "original mix")
2021-10-27T22:48:09 < kakium69> first 3seconds are promissing at least, has that synth and xylofon thing
2021-10-27T22:48:51 < kakium69> some 90s style clap sound effects
2021-10-27T22:49:09 < catphish> morning
2021-10-27T22:49:11 < kakium69> like from midi sounds
2021-10-27T22:49:35 < Steffanx> Gooday mr catphish. We can we do for you today?
2021-10-27T22:49:52 < catphish> i quite like your music :)
2021-10-27T22:50:26 < kakium69> Steffanx: is this your musics?
2021-10-27T22:50:39 < catphish> Steffanx: you can start by feeling great about yourself :)
2021-10-27T22:50:59 < catphish> i assume its not his own music
2021-10-27T22:51:14 < catphish> if it is, i'm most envious
2021-10-27T22:51:33 < kakium69> steff sekritly composes musics with psyedonyms
2021-10-27T22:51:45 < kakium69> little known fact about steff
2021-10-27T22:51:47 < Steffanx> lol no kakium69. im not greek
2021-10-27T22:52:45 < kakium69> yeah that song was good but not fav'd though
2021-10-27T22:53:15 < kakium69> if there was like thing like radio but from internets that plays this musics 247
2021-10-27T22:53:25 < kakium69> I would maybe tune in time to time
2021-10-27T22:53:33 < Steffanx> It was shazam that told me about this song when i asked it to tell me.
2021-10-27T22:53:36 < Steffanx> i bet there is kakium69
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2021-10-27T22:54:14 < kakium69> were you in kebab restaurant Steffanx?
2021-10-27T22:54:29 < kakium69> wait.. they would know better to not play greek music
2021-10-27T22:55:58 < Steffanx> nope, i dont remember. Might even have been some random internet stream or video
2021-10-27T22:56:28 < kakium69> kebab restaurants play all these turkish bangers from internets radio or youtubes
2021-10-27T22:56:38 < Steffanx> i only remember it wasnt a kebab restaurant.
2021-10-27T22:59:43 < catphish> today i bought a very expensive cable https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203673916292
2021-10-27T23:00:59 < Steffanx> joy..
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2021-10-27T23:13:48 < kakium69> catphish: with sealed connector system not so bad
2021-10-27T23:14:43 < kakium69> friend c55 just sealed aluminum hammond box to cover the connector holes
2021-10-27T23:15:36 < ventYl> catphish: XML vs. binary garbage depends on how the binary garbage is designed
2021-10-27T23:15:56 < ventYl> but almost always, if there is no single authority on format, XML is better than any binary garbage
2021-10-27T23:43:30 < catphish> ventYl: personally i think xml is the worst possible option, i prefer almost any proprietary binary format over XML
2021-10-27T23:44:06 < ventYl> XML isn't that bad. it's just verbose
2021-10-27T23:44:22 < catphish> i like json when using high level languages, but for MCUs, binary protocols tend to be easier to parse, because they're designed for that kind of simple low level environment
2021-10-27T23:44:48 < catphish> i can't even imagine trying to parse XML in a MCU, compared with simple fixed width binary
2021-10-27T23:44:59 < ventYl> if you have 1MB of flash and 100+ kB of RAM, MCU is no excuse!
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--- Day changed Thu Oct 28 2021
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2021-10-28T00:13:28 < bitmask> jesus christ
2021-10-28T00:13:56 < kakium69> xml hard to parse :D
2021-10-28T00:15:19 < bitmask> i just wasted an hour, all of a sudden my code stopped compiling saying it couldn't find OpenGL/gl.h for the window manager or whatever I'm using. i created a new project with just a basic hello world vulkan project and same thing. I finally quit xcode and reopened it and figured out why, it asked me to install additional components... it does that everytime it updates. I auto updated and doesnt tell you. 
2021-10-28T00:15:22 < bitmask> fucked everything up
2021-10-28T00:16:03 < BrainDamage> kakium69: just use regexp :J
2021-10-28T00:16:53 < ventYl> XML isn't regular language
2021-10-28T00:17:11 < ventYl> s/language/grammar/
2021-10-28T00:17:58 < kakium69> bitmask: how many hours of work?
2021-10-28T00:18:32 < bitmask> oh my code is fine now, i just meant the update fucked everything up until i restarted
2021-10-28T00:18:47 < ventYl> XCode sucks
2021-10-28T00:18:51 < bitmask> yea i know
2021-10-28T00:18:52 < kakium69> ah
2021-10-28T00:18:59 < ventYl> it's way the worst IDE ever burned electricity on this planet
2021-10-28T00:19:14 < kakium69> but anyways you didn't lose your progress
2021-10-28T00:19:26 < kakium69> you are annoyed
2021-10-28T00:19:42 < ventYl> not even combined powers of all Eclipse OEM-specific versions multiplied by fuckery of Visual Studio reach lands where XCode operates
2021-10-28T00:20:23 < bitmask> yes
2021-10-28T00:20:32 < ventYl> XCode is *the* IDE which made me using vim
2021-10-28T00:20:37 < vit> <Steffanx> the last youtube video is good music
2021-10-28T00:21:07 < ventYl> you see it and think "i can't believe someone invented something as bad as this"
2021-10-28T00:21:19 < ventYl> and then *BAM* new XCode lands and it is even more fucked up than previous version
2021-10-28T00:21:29 < Steffanx> Then you opened keil uvision 
2021-10-28T00:21:36 < kakium69> I don't know what xcode is
2021-10-28T00:21:40 < Steffanx> And cried 
2021-10-28T00:21:46 < kakium69> let's keep it that way
2021-10-28T00:22:00 < vit> <Steffanx> try this music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuaQ1QhJOkc i think this is good too
2021-10-28T00:22:05 < ventYl> Steffanx: not even GreenHills stuff is as bad as XCode
2021-10-28T00:22:08 < BrainDamage> ventYl: :J is a smug trolling smiley
2021-10-28T00:22:15 < bitmask> omg i tried keil once, jesus was that aweful
2021-10-28T00:22:21 < Steffanx> Dont you want to develop for apples kakium69 ?
2021-10-28T00:22:47 < kakium69> no
2021-10-28T00:23:06 < kakium69> my loss?
2021-10-28T00:23:44 < Steffanx> ill try tomorrow vit
2021-10-28T00:24:33 < vit> <Steffanx> ok
2021-10-28T00:24:59 < ventYl> uVision looks like a mix of ancient visual studio which was wrecked by Java 6 runtime
2021-10-28T00:26:36 < ventYl> does keil still develop their own compiler, or they finally gave up?
2021-10-28T00:27:59 < Steffanx> its still better than gcc i heard 
2021-10-28T00:28:38 < ventYl> ah, they infested llvm with their own backend
2021-10-28T00:29:39 < ventYl> I wouldn't be surprised if comparison was made using some ancient version of GCC supplied by the manufacturer of chip
2021-10-28T00:34:48 < ventYl> BrainDamage: in fact, i've been "parsing" XML and HTML using regular expressions from BASH shellscript
2021-10-28T00:35:20 < BrainDamage> you can parse xml only if the structure is rigid
2021-10-28T00:35:42 < BrainDamage> you can't parse arbitrary xml, but a specific schema is np
2021-10-28T00:36:35 < ventYl> if you only need to dig some information, which is well recognizable, you can essentially ignore schema and get what you want
2021-10-28T00:36:59 < ventYl> that was also first approach I've used to parse automotive XMLs, it was actually proposed by my then-coleague
2021-10-28T00:37:11 < ventYl> and worked quite well to get past "fuck this shit" phase
2021-10-28T00:41:08 < BrainDamage> ignoring schema or saying you dig out a specific info is equivalent
2021-10-28T00:41:29 < BrainDamage> or saying you fix the schema
2021-10-28T00:41:49 < BrainDamage> also, mandatory link https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/
2021-10-28T00:43:10  * kakium69 *laughts*
2021-10-28T01:04:49 < Steffanx> Hehe
2021-10-28T01:15:11 < kakium69> can we find regex exploit from ev charge port?
2021-10-28T01:15:48 < karlp> BrainDamage: classic :)
2021-10-28T01:16:54 < ventYl> I bet you'd find something using fuzzer
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2021-10-28T01:57:10 < BrainDamage> oh and i forgot
2021-10-28T01:57:28 < BrainDamage> if you wan to ruin someone's day, you can always use asn.1
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2021-10-28T02:05:13 < kakium69> nice
2021-10-28T02:21:45  * karlp snorts
2021-10-28T02:22:24 < karlp> did corba use asn1 internally? I can't remember, or did they just do their serialization as well?
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2021-10-28T03:11:47  * jadew just came back from Disneyland - biggest snot fest I've seen in a while
2021-10-28T03:12:53 < kakium69> wat
2021-10-28T03:13:20 < kakium69> france?
2021-10-28T03:13:24 < jadew> yeah
2021-10-28T03:14:07 < jadew> also much more crowded than in previous years
2021-10-28T03:14:18 < jadew> it's like people are catching up with having fun
2021-10-28T03:14:37 < kakium69> waiting makes it only sweeter
2021-10-28T03:14:44 < kakium69> unless it's packed
2021-10-28T03:15:36 < jadew> the queue? it's always packed
2021-10-28T03:15:52 < jadew> they did separate it with acrylic windows
2021-10-28T03:16:49 < jadew> so it's the usual maze, but you share breathing air only with a couple of people
2021-10-28T03:17:30 < jadew> also, acceptance into the park now requires a covid green pass, on top of the metal detector / x-ray stuff
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2021-10-28T03:19:37 < jadew> and they also track all the places you eat at, for contact tracing I think
2021-10-28T03:19:54 < jadew> anyway, I'm off to bed
2021-10-28T03:19:55 < jadew> night
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2021-10-28T03:44:39 < aandrew> jadew: a friend is asking if you have a limiter that can go down to DC
2021-10-28T03:44:45 < aandrew> also, I don't see the limiter on your web site
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2021-10-28T07:14:33 < m4t> any thoughts on what's going on here? using the st-provided freertos arduino library w/st arduino core on stm32f1: https://paste.ee/p/oQ5PD
2021-10-28T07:15:08 < m4t> i've seen weirdness with printf before e.g. on early versions of esp8266 rtos sdk. solution there at the time was to use a standalone printf impl
2021-10-28T07:15:20 < m4t> its newlib nano, everything is called in the same function sequentially
2021-10-28T07:16:45 < m4t> there shouldn't be any funny business with threads, nothing else is calling printf family of functions, nor any interrupts (it's pretty consistently fubar)
2021-10-28T07:18:14 < m4t> also, i tried giving the thread a lot more stack and it didn't make a difference either
2021-10-28T07:18:29 < m4t> i suppose i could make it even larger... it was doing it with 4x min stack size before
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2021-10-28T07:20:35 < m4t> also, a couple different heap implementations didnt make a difference either per configMEMMANG_HEAP_NB
2021-10-28T07:21:52 < m4t> yeah no difference with 8x min stack size :/
2021-10-28T08:06:07 < m4t> hrm i wonder if time_t is actually an int64
2021-10-28T08:06:32 < m4t> that might explain why it appears to be skipping over/rearranging variables
2021-10-28T08:08:19 < m4t> doh, casting to (long) fixed it :D
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2021-10-28T11:00:43 < catphish> you're welcome :)
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2021-10-28T12:01:29 < srk> https://techexplorations.com/blog/kicad/kicad-6-review-new-and-improved-features/
2021-10-28T12:01:34 < srk> s-expressions ^^
2021-10-28T12:02:05 < karlp> only you would care about that
2021-10-28T12:02:16 < karlp> the rest of are just "is it doing what it needs?"
2021-10-28T12:02:42 < srk> karlp: good morning karlp!
2021-10-28T12:02:48 < karlp> good morning :)
2021-10-28T12:03:19 < karlp> had better mornings honestly, but s-expressions aren't to blame for that.  (stacked my bike on some ice coming into work, hadn't switched to studded tires yet)
2021-10-28T12:03:57 < srk> karlp: I care because I fucked with raw formats before. the article also mentions it will embed symbols into schemas which is cool
2021-10-28T12:04:48 < karlp> yeah, kicad6 is good kicad. 
2021-10-28T12:05:00 < karlp> we've been using it at work for months and moths
2021-10-28T12:08:43 < srk> ^^
2021-10-28T12:26:26 < Steffann> Kicad 6 is coming... [1 year later]
2021-10-28T12:30:46 < tct> I really dislike library management in KiCAD
2021-10-28T12:30:50 < tct> LibrePCB looks more promising there
2021-10-28T12:35:41 < Steffann> Idk why, but forking a project and calling it "libre[whatever]" makes me dislike it
2021-10-28T12:36:05 < Steffann> Time for libregfx 
2021-10-28T12:36:08 < tct> AFAIK LibrePCB is a standalone thing, no fork
2021-10-28T12:36:44 < Steffann> Oh I recall was kicad, but..
2021-10-28T12:37:27 < Steffann> But maybe its not
2021-10-28T12:39:04 < tct> also, LibrePCB dude is swisser :p
2021-10-28T12:44:08 < Steffann> Yeah, bummer...
2021-10-28T12:44:26 < tct> Putten
2021-10-28T12:44:44 < Steffann> Yeah, bummer 
2021-10-28T12:45:12 < Steffann> I guess I was wrong, it just looks like kicad. No libre forking 
2021-10-28T12:46:05 < tct> exactly.
2021-10-28T12:50:49 < Steffann> I bet you loved Putten btw
2021-10-28T12:51:05 < Steffann> Felt like home
2021-10-28T12:51:09 < tct> was pretty homey
2021-10-28T12:51:11 < tct> lol, yes
2021-10-28T12:51:24 < tct> the dutch people I was with were constantly complaining about it - I was quite okay with it.
2021-10-28T13:19:39 < englishman> Already ice on the roads… we just got first frost this week
2021-10-28T13:20:57 < englishman> What else out there competes with imx6ull?
2021-10-28T13:21:06 < englishman> that isnt chinese
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2021-10-28T13:42:51 < Steffann> Read this blog about cheap lunix supporting boards. It had them all 
2021-10-28T13:43:07 < Steffann> CPU/MCUs*
2021-10-28T13:43:42 < Steffann> Zypsnips must have it 
2021-10-28T13:45:35 < zyp> englishman, for what purpose?
2021-10-28T13:47:14 < englishman> Basically a lunix tablet, currently using imx6q. This would be for a cheaper version of the same without ethernet, smaller screen. Only need usb host and device and a couple uarts really
2021-10-28T13:49:51 < englishman> Imx series has good longevity, this thing will be available for 10+ years which is why no china parts
2021-10-28T13:52:06 < zyp> I don't think you'll find anything reputable beating imx6ull on price
2021-10-28T13:52:46 < zyp> the previous project I did was based on this: https://www.variscite.com/product/system-on-module-som/cortex-a7/dart-6ul-freescale-imx-6ul/
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2021-10-28T14:04:18 < englishman> Imx6ull is indeed very well priced
2021-10-28T14:04:38 < englishman> yes have some bits from variscite and technexion here
2021-10-28T14:05:07 < srk> tct: how does librepcbs library management work?
2021-10-28T14:15:32 < jadew> aandrew, hey, I removed it from my offer because it was too difficult to make and had a poor yield (properly closing the enclosure being the issue)
2021-10-28T14:16:20 < jadew> I have a better limiter design now, but I haven't explored it 100%
2021-10-28T14:18:01 < jadew> I can't get them down to actual DC, because then the biasing limit would be practically 0 VDC, but I can probably get it very close
2021-10-28T14:19:07 < jadew> give me a bit more details on what DC really means in this case and the limiting requirements and I
2021-10-28T14:19:12 < jadew> and I'll look into it
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2021-10-28T16:31:56 < aandrew> jadew: will do, thanks
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2021-10-28T18:56:51 < kakium69> hello innovators32
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2021-10-28T19:48:39 < Steffann> Gooday and goodbye sir kakium69 
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2021-10-28T20:06:01 < mawk> the grandfather decided it was time to go
2021-10-28T20:07:37 < mawk> which isn't too soon, last days he was thinking that I'm his nephew and that we're in 1934
2021-10-28T20:07:51 < mawk> better to go before turning into a demented vegetable
2021-10-28T20:10:36 < Steffann> What does this mean mawk?
2021-10-28T20:11:12 < mawk> what Steffann 
2021-10-28T20:11:36 < Steffann> Euthanasia isnt a thing in france is it?
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2021-10-28T20:14:43 < mawk> no Steffann 
2021-10-28T20:14:51 < mawk> he just died in his sleep normally
2021-10-28T20:14:57 < mawk> after a stroke yesterday
2021-10-28T20:15:21 < mawk> his immanent self decided it was time to go
2021-10-28T20:15:27 < mawk> his worldly self was already gone
2021-10-28T20:25:50 < Steffann> Aah, so he decided to go that way 
2021-10-28T20:27:01 < Steffann> I can say sorry for your loss, but.. I got the idea you lost him a while back.
2021-10-28T20:32:25 < Steffann> So will you go back to france mawk?
2021-10-28T20:32:59 < mawk> yeah I guess
2021-10-28T20:33:06 < mawk> unless they keep him in the fridge
2021-10-28T20:33:21 < mawk> maybe they will incinerate this weekend
2021-10-28T20:45:49 < Steffann> When you go, you will go for alkaline hydrolysis dont you mawk?
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2021-10-28T21:27:41 < upgrdman> jeez. i guess im becoming a real youtube influencer. a couple days ago i posted a review video of a ras pi display case (which i was given for free) and today another chinese company is asking me to review some ras pi tablet thing (display case with internal battery, etc.)
2021-10-28T21:28:29 < upgrdman> guess i'm moving up the ladder. a couple years ago i got offers to review ~$15 stuff for free. now i get offers for ~$150-200 stuff for free.
2021-10-28T21:37:36 < Steffann> fancy
2021-10-28T21:37:54 < Steffann>  You're finally upgrding.
2021-10-28T21:38:02 < upgrdman> indeed
2021-10-28T21:38:35 < upgrdman> maybe in a decade i get a free car or something
2021-10-28T21:38:54 < upgrdman> "hi everyone. in today's video i'll be looking at a ... tesla"
2021-10-28T21:44:32 < englishman> pretty sure you have to be a minority
2021-10-28T21:45:36 < upgrdman> fwiw, a ras pi display case has turned out to be super useful.
2021-10-28T21:45:52 < Steffann> for some people.
2021-10-28T21:45:54 < upgrdman> im kinda tempted to buy a second one
2021-10-28T21:46:06 < upgrdman> but today i got offered a similar thing for free :)
2021-10-28T21:46:14 < upgrdman> ya
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2021-10-28T21:47:01 < upgrdman> i guess it's totally worth it for the manufacturers ... the prices are high, but pi people keep buying
2021-10-28T21:55:12 < machinehum> Guess I work for meta now
2021-10-28T21:55:19 < machinehum> That's dumb
2021-10-28T21:57:43 < machinehum> Any STM's to buy?
2021-10-28T22:14:52 < mawk> no Steffann 
2021-10-28T22:15:05 < mawk> I want my carbon to go in the atmosphere
2021-10-28T22:15:24 < upgrdman> start farting?
2021-10-28T22:15:32 < mawk> if I can give lung cancer to at least one leftist my life will not have been in vain
2021-10-28T22:15:47 < mawk> no upgrdman methane is too mild
2021-10-28T22:15:58 < mawk> besides it's bacteria's carbon when you fart
2021-10-28T22:16:02 < mawk> it's cheating
2021-10-28T22:25:58 < bitmask> grrr
2021-10-28T22:26:03 < bitmask> why wont this work :(
2021-10-28T22:26:34 < bitmask> im starting to get desperate and my code is getting messy
2021-10-28T22:54:04 < mawk> what bitmask 
2021-10-28T22:59:18 < bitmask> refactored all my code and cant figure out a bug
2021-10-28T22:59:44 < Steffann> my code.. the magic machine code?
2021-10-28T22:59:51 < bitmask> im gonna stop trying to guess and just go through it
2021-10-28T22:59:59 < bitmask> magic machine?
2021-10-28T23:01:03 < Steffann> You im just as clueless as you are.
2021-10-28T23:01:06 < Steffann> *yes
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2021-10-28T23:30:30 < Steffann> Lol bitmask 
2021-10-28T23:30:36 < bitmask> ?
2021-10-28T23:30:36 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
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2021-10-28T23:41:55 < Steffann> That youre just as vague. Whats this code doing?
2021-10-28T23:42:03 < Steffann> Or is it the 3d magic?
2021-10-28T23:49:07 < bitmask> yea vulkan stuffs
2021-10-28T23:49:17 < bitmask> :)
--- Day changed Fri Oct 29 2021
2021-10-29T00:04:33 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-29T00:04:39 < catphish> g'day
2021-10-29T00:09:20 < Steffann> Gooday Sir catphish  
2021-10-29T00:09:32 < Steffann> What brings you here at this late hour?
2021-10-29T00:10:09 < catphish> only just got round to logging in
2021-10-29T00:10:21 < catphish> i'm rarely thinking about sleepng this early :)
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2021-10-29T00:34:46 < Steffann> Oh I finally understand why you work for Meta now, machinehum 
2021-10-29T00:37:59 < catphish> jlcpcb worked fast this week, the boards i orderd on sunday night were finished (assemble) this moening
2021-10-29T00:47:14 < ventYl> this moaning
2021-10-29T00:49:20 < kakium69> catphish: did they send pcbporn?
2021-10-29T00:49:46 < kakium69> I remember back in the days I got photos of the boards
2021-10-29T00:50:03 < kakium69> so I could get more pumped up
2021-10-29T00:51:22 < catphish> kakium69: sadly not
2021-10-29T00:51:51 < catphish> i think they should do snapshots of every stage of production automatically, sadly they don't
2021-10-29T00:53:45 < machinehum> Steffann: Why do I work for meta?
2021-10-29T00:54:37 < catphish> you don#t
2021-10-29T00:57:08 < Steffann> Because Mark machinehum 
2021-10-29T01:02:19 < kakium69> I wonder if Mark has any fans
2021-10-29T01:02:42 < kakium69> all billionares have fans
2021-10-29T01:05:46 < catphish> i wish i was a billionaire, i could afford the £1.3M house i want :(
2021-10-29T01:06:06 < englishman> 14:55	<machinehum>	Guess I work for meta now
2021-10-29T01:06:09 < englishman> maybe that's why ?
2021-10-29T01:16:06 < kakium69> catphish: price of standard house nowdays right?
2021-10-29T01:16:46 < kakium69> in England
2021-10-29T01:19:27 < catphish> kakium69: average house price is about £250,000, but that escalates fast if you live in a desirable part of the country and want any land at all
2021-10-29T01:19:48 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-29T01:20:53 < kakium69> let's see if there is any abbandoned cabins available for me>
2021-10-29T01:20:57 < catphish> i have a 3-bedroom semi-detached in a desirable rural location with a decent garden, about 500k
2021-10-29T01:21:20 < kakium69> what gives?
2021-10-29T01:21:32 < catphish> but to upgrade to a detached house with similar setup would be 1M :(
2021-10-29T01:22:28 < catphish> a cabin would be nice, as long as it can has internet
2021-10-29T01:25:10 < machinehum> Steffann: true
2021-10-29T01:25:45 < machinehum> I got a thing for aliens with human skin pulled over
2021-10-29T01:26:19 < catphish> i prefer native humans
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2021-10-29T04:21:33 < m4t> is it too late to adjust the overflow for the current timer period, from within the overflow ISR? i.e. call timer3->setOverflow(N) from timer3's overflow ISR https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/main/cores/arduino/HardwareTimer.cpp#L479-L503
2021-10-29T04:23:09 < m4t> i realized at least that when doing "timer3->pause(); timer3->setOverflow(100); timer3->resume(); timer3->setOverflow(200". the last setting (200) doesn't take effect until the currently running interval overflows at 100
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2021-10-29T07:31:16 < bitmask> hellz yea
2021-10-29T07:43:14 < m4t> i think i want setPreloadEnable actually
2021-10-29T07:43:18 < m4t> reading about "shadow regs"
2021-10-29T07:52:20 < m4t> which are kind of annoying when you're trying to make immediate changes to a running timer's overflow value
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2021-10-29T08:28:22 < m4t> ->setPreloadEnable(true) did do what i wanted btw. calling setOverflow in the ISR did not affect the current interval though
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2021-10-29T17:12:25 < mawk> I think I'm sick
2021-10-29T17:12:46 < mawk> but I only ate shitty supermarket food last days and didn't go outside
2021-10-29T17:13:08 < mawk> maybe the supermarket food was contaminated
2021-10-29T17:13:17 < mawk> I should sue Jumbo and become rich
2021-10-29T17:21:17 < catphish> yes, of course
2021-10-29T17:29:56 < Steffann> You got covided 
2021-10-29T17:37:50 < mawk> I don't cough Steffann 
2021-10-29T17:48:38 < Steffann> Maybe you got no-cough covid 
2021-10-29T17:49:49 < ventYl> nocovid
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2021-10-29T18:20:12 < mawk> I don't have any symptoms Steffann 
2021-10-29T18:20:25 < mawk> except vomiting my guts out as soon as I drink anything
2021-10-29T18:20:41 < jpa-> sounds like rabies
2021-10-29T18:20:49 < mawk> it's been three times I'm trying to take a magic anti-nausea pill but I keep vomiting it out
2021-10-29T18:20:52 < jpa-> time to apply for euthanasia
2021-10-29T18:20:58 < mawk> I should've bought anti nausea suppositories instead
2021-10-29T18:21:03 < mawk> jpa- :(
2021-10-29T18:33:42 < mawk> Steffann how do you say "stop selling me quack medicine" in dutch
2021-10-29T18:33:56 < mawk> everytime I go to the pharmacy they insist on selling me plants
2021-10-29T18:34:05 < mawk> and they never give me real medication
2021-10-29T18:39:11 < mawk> so I ask for "misselijkheid medicatie"
2021-10-29T18:39:26 < mawk> I had a dutch exam 3 days ago Steffann 
2021-10-29T18:39:34 < mawk> now I'm certified "A1"
2021-10-29T18:39:42 < mawk> and I start A2 class
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2021-10-29T18:45:00 < Steffann> So we can praten Nederlands nu, mawk ?
2021-10-29T18:52:01 < mawk> ja Steffann 
2021-10-29T18:52:31 < mawk> we pouvons praten nederlands
2021-10-29T18:54:25 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-10-29T18:54:51 < jpa-> förstås, vi ska prata finskdutch
2021-10-29T19:01:20 < PaulFertser> What language is https://youtu.be/jbYer7L-Rmk starting from 5:35 ?
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2021-10-29T19:03:22 < machinehum> Sounds like Hindi
2021-10-29T19:03:32 < machinehum> I was expecting to see a programming lang PaulFertser 
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2021-10-29T19:04:06 < machinehum> 4x4x4
2021-10-29T19:04:08 < machinehum> lol what
2021-10-29T19:04:25 < PaulFertser> It has way too many Germanic roots and some obviously English words. What kind of a language literally has "four seasons" sounding exactly like in English?
2021-10-29T19:04:51 < machinehum> Dude have you ever heard people speak hindi?
2021-10-29T19:04:58 < machinehum> They don't have a word for truck
2021-10-29T19:05:31 < PaulFertser> Truck as in pickup SUV or as in lorry?
2021-10-29T19:05:42 < machinehum> When the internet was invested a bunch of people in France got in a room and decided the French word for it, India is like... the opposite
2021-10-29T19:05:51 < machinehum> pickup
2021-10-29T19:07:20 < machinehum> You also have to remember India was a British colony for a bit
2021-10-29T19:07:34 < PaulFertser> Hm, that would kinda explain it, thanks!
2021-10-29T19:08:21 < machinehum> When I'm in the car with my Indian friend and he gets a call from his wife I know exactly what they're talking about
2021-10-29T19:08:25 < machinehum> lol
2021-10-29T19:10:38 < mawk> the intern pharmacist gave me too much medication
2021-10-29T19:10:44 < mawk> and I said nothing
2021-10-29T19:11:04 < mawk> she will maybe get fired at the next inventory
2021-10-29T19:12:08 < mawk> I don't know the french word for internet machinehum 
2021-10-29T19:12:35 < machinehum> Yeah idk someone told me that once might have been bullshit
2021-10-29T19:12:41 < machinehum> What did you get?
2021-10-29T19:13:07 < mawk> I know the french word for many internet related stuff but not internet itself
2021-10-29T19:13:11 < mawk> I don't think it exists
2021-10-29T19:13:23 < mawk> the intern gave me 9 too many methadone pills
2021-10-29T19:13:40 < mawk> that's 100-150€ on the black market
2021-10-29T19:14:17 < mawk> the french invented the minitel before internet was a thing
2021-10-29T19:14:28 < mawk> it's more or less a nationwide BBS
2021-10-29T19:14:41 < mawk> using terminals given for free to every french household
2021-10-29T19:14:46 < mawk> it got decommissioned some years ago
2021-10-29T19:15:44 < machinehum> used to treat Opioid Use Disorder
2021-10-29T19:16:21 < machinehum> Take that with morphine?
2021-10-29T19:16:30 < mawk> why with?
2021-10-29T19:16:33 < mawk> you take it alone
2021-10-29T19:16:48 < mawk> it cancels the effect of other opiates anyway
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2021-10-29T19:17:12 < machinehum> It's a pain killer?
2021-10-29T19:17:20 < mawk> yes it's just like morphine
2021-10-29T19:17:28 < mawk> they give it when you're addicted to heroin or what
2021-10-29T19:17:36 < mawk> so that you get addicted to methadone instead
2021-10-29T19:17:42 < machinehum> Nice
2021-10-29T19:17:47 < mawk> which is much better for a number of reasons
2021-10-29T19:18:03 < mawk> it lasts for 2 days, it doesn't get you high, it's well tolerated
2021-10-29T19:18:18 < machinehum> Oh
2021-10-29T19:18:21 < mawk> so instead of shooting smack you just take a pill a day and go on with your normal life
2021-10-29T19:18:46 < machinehum> What's your pain caused by?
2021-10-29T19:18:55 < mawk> I don't have any pain
2021-10-29T19:19:06 < machinehum> Fair
2021-10-29T19:19:09 < mawk> I just get very sick when I don't take opiates
2021-10-29T19:19:19 < mawk> so I take opiates to not get sick from not taking them
2021-10-29T19:19:41 < machinehum> hmm
2021-10-29T19:19:48 < PaulFertser> mawk: minitel story seems to be rather interesting. The wikipedia article doesn't seem to list any interesting hacks/diy enhancements with the terminals though.
2021-10-29T19:20:09 < mawk> yeah I don't know about hacks
2021-10-29T19:20:17 < mawk> but it was quite open for a state run network
2021-10-29T19:20:23 < mawk> not much censorship
2021-10-29T19:20:26 < mawk> porn was allowed
2021-10-29T19:20:46 < PaulFertser> I mean with so many "free" terminals there must have been some homebrew going with them.
2021-10-29T19:21:07 < mawk> that's how Xavier Niel made his fortune and went on to influence politicians and found a big telecom company
2021-10-29T19:21:15 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-29T19:21:24 < mawk> but it was probably illegal to modify them
2021-10-29T19:21:43 < mawk> just like you can't modify mail stamping machines lent by the post office
2021-10-29T19:21:58 < mawk> or bank cards or whatever
2021-10-29T19:23:53 < PaulFertser> Hm, apparently they were just dumb terminals. But they still could be made to show some minimalistic games I guess.
2021-10-29T19:24:05 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-29T19:24:18 < mawk> with a real server somewhere else
2021-10-29T19:24:41 < PaulFertser> https://spectrum.ieee.org/from-trash-to-treasure-how-to-resurrect-a-minitel-terminal and it has a link for the book
2021-10-29T19:24:44 < mawk> you didn't call a phone number but a special 4 digit + 4 letter code 
2021-10-29T19:24:51 < mawk> 3615 ULLA for the pink minitel
2021-10-29T19:24:57 < mawk> to talk to "hot "women""
2021-10-29T19:25:22 < mawk> probably just greasy men behind a keyboard
2021-10-29T19:25:52 < mawk> do you understand machinehum ?
2021-10-29T19:26:24 < machinehum> understand what?
2021-10-29T19:27:34 < mawk> nice article PaulFertser 
2021-10-29T19:27:47 < mawk> how opiate substitution treatment works machinehum 
2021-10-29T19:28:57 < mawk> it goes like this: first machinehum is a happy heroin addict; then machinehum discovers all his money is eaten by it and wishes to not have started, but he can't stop; then last step, machinehum visits an addiction clinic where he gets prescribed methadone or buprenorphine for the rest of his life to get him off heroin
2021-10-29T19:29:15 < mawk> and machinehum is happy again
2021-10-29T19:30:09 < mawk> they should've hired a french translator PaulFertser 
2021-10-29T19:31:39 < machinehum> Seems reasonable
2021-10-29T19:32:00 < machinehum> Big Pharma makes bank?
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2021-10-29T19:35:56 < mawk> not in france machinehum 
2021-10-29T19:36:02 < mawk> the state manufactures the methadone itself
2021-10-29T19:36:12 < mawk> the Paris hospitals do it 
2021-10-29T19:36:23 < mawk> which is a state group
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2021-10-29T19:37:08 < mawk> in Netherlands it's a private company, but it's cheap
2021-10-29T19:37:10 < mawk> more or less
2021-10-29T19:37:18 < mawk> 30€/month
2021-10-29T19:37:59 < machinehum> The state, makes the pills?
2021-10-29T19:38:03 < ventYl> Czechoslovakia was last producer or "legal" heroine in the world
2021-10-29T19:38:09 < mawk> yes machinehum 
2021-10-29T19:38:15 < machinehum> Cool
2021-10-29T19:38:15 < mawk> we still use legal heroin ventYl 
2021-10-29T19:38:24 < mawk> for very high pain
2021-10-29T19:38:24 < machinehum> how pays for R&D?
2021-10-29T19:38:33 < mawk> what R&D?
2021-10-29T19:38:41 < mawk> the synthesis of methadone is known since decades
2021-10-29T19:38:41 < ventYl> heroine? not morfium?
2021-10-29T19:38:54 < machinehum> Research and Development
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2021-10-29T19:39:02 < mawk> you just give a monkey a pot and reagants and he makes the methadone
2021-10-29T19:39:03 < machinehum> Like inventing new types of drugs
2021-10-29T19:39:07 < mawk> yes I know what R&D is
2021-10-29T19:39:13 < mawk> I mean it's not necessary
2021-10-29T19:39:20 < mawk> since there's nothing to invent
2021-10-29T19:39:24 < machinehum> Fair
2021-10-29T19:39:27 < mawk> yes ventYl diamorphine
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2021-10-29T19:40:06 < mawk> also the state makes it but that doesn't mean it's free machinehum 
2021-10-29T19:40:12 < mawk> it was around 130€/month for me
2021-10-29T19:40:19 < mawk> but social security paid 66% of it
2021-10-29T19:40:24 < mawk> and my insurance the rest
2021-10-29T19:40:32 < PaulFertser> "Télic-Alcatel Minitel 1B. For example, mine is equipped with an 8052 microcontroller with internal ROM, while others have an 8032 (fully compatible with the 8052 but lacking an internal ROM) and a daughterboard which holds a ROM" http://vtrm.net/elec/minitel/en the guy made a light pen and plenty of programs for it.
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2021-10-29T19:40:56 < mawk> ah nice PaulFertser 
2021-10-29T19:40:59 < mawk> so it's not that dumb
2021-10-29T19:41:21 < ventYl> isn't 8052 a parallel port driver?
2021-10-29T19:41:31 < mawk> only in hospital setting ventYl , using an iv pump
2021-10-29T19:41:39 < mawk> typically for femur bone breakage
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2021-10-29T19:41:50 < mawk> since it's slightly painful and even morphine isn't enough
2021-10-29T19:41:53 < ventYl> or some other IO chip from early '80s ?
2021-10-29T19:41:57 < jpa-> 8052 is a container truck
2021-10-29T19:43:02 < mawk> 8052 is a pretty whorish number
2021-10-29T19:43:14 < mawk> he gets divided by many numbers
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2021-10-29T19:43:17 < jpa-> looks like avalability of 8052 microcontrollers is better than STM32s at the moment
2021-10-29T19:43:40 < mawk> while superior numbers keep their pants on and are not so easily divided
2021-10-29T19:43:53 < mawk> so what's your next 8052 project jpa- ?
2021-10-29T19:44:27 < ventYl> ah, that;s 8255
2021-10-29T19:44:54 < ventYl> screw it, i am gonna feed the dog by my broken bones
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2021-10-29T19:59:35 < machinehum> mawk: There isn't a way you can wean off it all somehow?
2021-10-29T19:59:44 < machinehum> I know shit all about this stuff
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2021-10-29T20:01:15 < mawk> yes sure machinehum 
2021-10-29T20:01:22 < mawk> by decreasing slowly over several years
2021-10-29T20:01:26 < mawk> but I don't want to
2021-10-29T20:01:39 < mawk> why would I want to stop my unlimited government drug supply
2021-10-29T20:02:39 < Steffann> Because when you forget your shit you go into panic mode.
2021-10-29T20:02:45 < PaulFertser> Because if you do not get high then all is left is a dependency, and it might get uncomfortable at times.
2021-10-29T20:03:43 < mawk> that depends what you do PaulFertser 
2021-10-29T20:03:50 < mawk> you don't get high if you keep the dose constant
2021-10-29T20:04:01 < mawk> but if you take less monday then more Tuesday you get high for free
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2021-10-29T20:04:39 < mawk> yes Steffann that's why I'm building an organic chemistry lab so it never happens again
2021-10-29T20:04:43 < Steffann> Addict logic ^^
2021-10-29T20:04:48 < mawk> I will DIY a lifetime methadone supply
2021-10-29T20:05:05 < mawk> it's not addict logic, it's just a good trick to get high Steffann 
2021-10-29T20:05:36 < mawk> people do sports and sweat and get in pain for the reward of feeling good afterwards
2021-10-29T20:05:40 < mawk> every human being does it
2021-10-29T20:05:46 < mawk> I just do it more efficiently
2021-10-29T20:05:58 < Steffann> Whatever 
2021-10-29T20:06:02 < mawk> using the feel good chemicals themselves and not some useless sports stuff
2021-10-29T20:06:56 < mawk> you're jealous of my endless high-getting possibilities Steffann 
2021-10-29T20:07:13 < Steffann> Not even closs
2021-10-29T20:07:15 < mawk> I can even take less monday AND tuesday, and take it all wednesday
2021-10-29T20:07:16 < Steffann> Close 
2021-10-29T20:07:21 < mawk> but you shouldn't get too greedy
2021-10-29T20:07:41 < mawk> otherwise you end up falling asleep while eating or walking and stuff like that
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2021-10-29T20:10:07 < mawk> the grandfather will have the funeral in a cathedral Steffann 
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2021-10-29T20:10:10 < mawk> it's very classy
2021-10-29T20:10:17 < mawk> I want my funeral in a cathedral too
2021-10-29T20:10:23 < mawk> I'll go to france this weekend
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2021-10-29T21:42:05 < kakium69> I
2021-10-29T21:42:12 < kakium69> 'm suprised
2021-10-29T21:42:31 < kakium69> there is availibility for stuff
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2021-10-29T21:48:27 < Steffann> Cathedral and incineration is something I cannot match, mawk :P
2021-10-29T21:48:33 < Steffann> Or will he burn in hell after?
2021-10-29T21:50:09 < kakium69> welcome catphish
2021-10-29T21:53:13 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@a94-132-168-30.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2021-10-29T21:53:40 < kakium69> welcome spacebyte
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2021-10-29T21:56:44 < catphish> thanks
2021-10-29T21:56:55 < catphish> anyone making anything fun?
2021-10-29T21:57:54  * kakium69 *looks at catphish*
2021-10-29T21:58:44 < kakium69> maybe I should take one for team and order the shits for my shit
2021-10-29T21:58:50 < qyx> GAULLE CEDEX FR Delay beyond our control
2021-10-29T21:58:55 < qyx> is it snow in .fr yet?
2021-10-29T21:59:02 < catphish> kakium69: is anyone *else* making anything cool :)
2021-10-29T21:59:27 < kakium69> qyx ofc
2021-10-29T21:59:40 < kakium69> he has massive projects
2021-10-29T22:00:15 < mawk> no he was a good catholic Steffann 
2021-10-29T22:00:27 < mawk> why can't you match it? just die near a cathedral
2021-10-29T22:00:30 < mawk> it's easy enough
2021-10-29T22:00:40 < kakium69> mawk: who?
2021-10-29T22:03:52 < kakium69> qyx: probably just some strike or so
2021-10-29T22:04:18 < Steffann> Because catholics get burried, mawk 
2021-10-29T22:04:40 < mawk> not always Steffann 
2021-10-29T22:04:45 < mawk> they can get incinerated
2021-10-29T22:05:04 < Steffann> Keep the body intact etc.
2021-10-29T22:05:12 < mawk> they're not jeovah witnesses
2021-10-29T22:05:19 < mawk> they won't get out of the grave at armaggedon
2021-10-29T22:05:31 < mawk> they go to heaven intact with a new body
2021-10-29T22:06:26 < Steffann> Maybe the fanatics are more strict here. Idk 
2021-10-29T22:07:08 < Steffann> I dont care 
2021-10-29T22:07:53 < kakium69> is steff planning his death?
2021-10-29T22:09:00 < kakium69> or after ded
2021-10-29T22:09:36 < kakium69> in here you can choose to become ash or be buried in wooden box
2021-10-29T22:10:02 < mawk> the grandfather kakium69 
2021-10-29T22:10:24 < kakium69> I'm sorry
2021-10-29T22:20:09 < mawk> don't worry
2021-10-29T22:21:11 < kakium69> who's granpa?
2021-10-29T22:21:31 < mawk> mine
2021-10-29T22:21:45 < mawk> cedex is high speed mail delivery for companies qyx
2021-10-29T22:22:23 < kakium69> was he dope?
2021-10-29T22:24:47 < mawk> yeah
2021-10-29T22:33:12 < Steffann> Mine too, but I never met any of my grandpas 
2021-10-29T22:45:38 < Steffann> Hows kakium69 senior?
2021-10-29T22:46:01 < kakium69> grandmas holdin strong
2021-10-29T22:46:12 < kakium69> granpas passed
2021-10-29T22:48:03 < kakium69> one grandma lives next door
2021-10-29T22:50:20 < Steffann> Next door is 5km away right?
2021-10-29T22:50:56 < kakium69> next door as in house is build right next to this house
2021-10-29T22:51:02 < kakium69> so 500meters
2021-10-29T22:53:39 < kakium69> technically a neighbour but considered more as extended courtyard
2021-10-29T22:54:14 < kakium69> because how close it is
2021-10-29T22:54:44 < jadew> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804210713982926894/902220539848982528/1635168647519.jpg
2021-10-29T22:55:09 < catphish> haha
2021-10-29T22:55:23 < kakium69> you know you have one in chamber jadew
--- Day changed Sat Oct 30 2021
2021-10-30T00:10:37 < catphish> just got an invite to a christmas party, "Dress code: Smart smart, dresses, suits etc. Please no jeans, work boots or trainers." how about fuck off.
2021-10-30T00:15:43 < specing> "smart smart"?
2021-10-30T00:21:25 < catphish> in brexit land we have "smart casual" and "smart smart"
2021-10-30T00:21:41 < catphish> the latter does not permit jeans and clean trainers :)
2021-10-30T00:21:54 < catphish> and is not something i will attend
2021-10-30T00:28:49 < kakium69> I can attend for you
2021-10-30T00:30:36 < catphish> i already declined on behalf of both of us
2021-10-30T00:39:53 < catphish> my boiler is leaking quite profusely, i don't like this
2021-10-30T00:41:09 < mawk> just add a bucket
2021-10-30T00:41:14 < mawk> and it will stop leaking
2021-10-30T00:41:24 < mawk> say the bucket is an "overflow reservoir" like it's intended
2021-10-30T00:41:41 < catphish> i have added a bucket, it will stop leaking eventully :)
2021-10-30T00:41:53 < catphish> i have also ordered a new boiler
2021-10-30T00:42:31 < catphish> it's not coming for 2 weeks though
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2021-10-30T02:41:56 < bitmask> hmmm, what causes: Explicitly defaulted copy assignment operator is implicitly deleted (C++)
2021-10-30T02:44:57 < mawk> your copy assignment operator has been deleted because you need to write it yourself bitmask
2021-10-30T02:45:17 < bitmask> yea i figured it out :)
2021-10-30T02:45:19 < mawk> for some reason like const shit in your parameters
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2021-10-30T04:32:46 < aandrew> jadew: lol
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2021-10-30T07:54:18 < englishman> i miss laurenceb
2021-10-30T07:54:50 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2021-10-30T07:55:00 -!- mode/##stm32 [-b *!~Laurenceb@*.plus.net] by englishman
2021-10-30T07:55:01 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2021-10-30T07:55:07 < englishman> i guess that explains why he hasnt been thru
2021-10-30T07:55:32 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2021-10-30T07:55:38 -!- mode/##stm32 [-b *!*@124.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by englishman
2021-10-30T07:55:42 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2021-10-30T07:56:05 < englishman> start the timer for the next ban
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2021-10-30T11:58:25 < ventYl> why, oh why? too much gringy hyperloop stuff?
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2021-10-30T12:45:55 < Steffann> Too much shit.
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2021-10-30T14:30:06 < BrainDamage> signal to blaxter ratio
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2021-10-30T15:13:47 < mawk> poor blaxter
2021-10-30T15:19:22 < Steffann> Lol blaxter-ratio. Long time ago since I heard that one 😁
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2021-10-30T16:45:13 < jadew> https://www.twitch.tv/aleatoriu
2021-10-30T16:45:19 < jadew> I need some suggestions
2021-10-30T16:47:00 < jadew> what information would you like to gain access to if you click on the part number?
2021-10-30T16:47:54 < jadew> I have more information that visible in the table, but I'm not sure how useful that is
2021-10-30T16:48:50 < jadew> also, I don't want it to make it easy for bots to scrape all of it
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2021-10-30T19:17:58 < Ecco> Hi guys
2021-10-30T19:18:12 < Ecco> Do you know who is/are the maintainers of https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm ?
2021-10-30T19:18:34 < Ecco> They don't offer a build for arm64 macOS
2021-10-30T19:18:42 < Ecco> And I just made one (needed quite a few patches)
2021-10-30T19:18:51 < Ecco> I'd like to share it with the rest of the community
2021-10-30T19:19:07 < ventYl> ARM itself probably
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2021-10-30T19:24:17 < PaulFertser> Ecco: you might want to talk to Linaro folks.
2021-10-30T19:24:28 < PaulFertser> I think they have an IRC channel.
2021-10-30T19:28:03 < Ecco> Thanks
2021-10-30T19:32:12 < Ecco> They don't seem to be answering over at #linaro
2021-10-30T19:33:44 < PaulFertser> I think they might be just slow to answer, iirc I had some meaningful conversation with them once.
2021-10-30T19:33:54 < Ecco> ok :)
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2021-10-30T22:10:16 < kakium69> catphish: do you have mixers for water?
2021-10-30T22:10:41 < kakium69> or still doin that thing with separate hot and cold?
2021-10-30T22:11:03 < kakium69> is it even legal to have mixers
2021-10-30T22:18:27 < mawk> how hard would it be to make a uart to sd logger thing that works at 921600 bauds
2021-10-30T22:18:39 < mawk> for some reason that's the baud rate of the debug port of my nb-iot module
2021-10-30T22:18:48 < mawk> regular "openlog" crap doesn't work at that speed
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2021-10-30T22:59:51 < Steffann> clickery click something together in the cube mawk :P
2021-10-30T23:08:17 < mawk> yes Steffann but are sd card fast enough?
2021-10-30T23:10:27 < qyx> yes
2021-10-30T23:10:37 < Steffann> its like 100 kilobyte/s ?
2021-10-30T23:10:42 < qyx> I did LA once
2021-10-30T23:10:46 < qyx> on F407
2021-10-30T23:10:50 < Steffann> And you got your answer from the master himself, so.. yes :P
2021-10-30T23:10:55 < qyx> managed to same at a average rate of 150 KB/s
2021-10-30T23:11:08 < mawk> what class sd is needed?
2021-10-30T23:11:14 < mawk> class 10 or whatever?
2021-10-30T23:11:18 < Steffann> and was that SDIO or SPI qyx?
2021-10-30T23:11:30 < qyx> it doesn't depend on the class but on the buffer size
2021-10-30T23:11:45 < qyx> I mean, even class 4 is able to do 100 KB/s  write
2021-10-30T23:11:53 < qyx> Steffann: sdio
2021-10-30T23:12:17 < mawk> why qyx
2021-10-30T23:12:19 < qyx> I needed 150 KB buffer for the card I was using
2021-10-30T23:12:25 < mawk> if the uart outputs continuously
2021-10-30T23:12:29 < mawk> buffer doesn't matter
2021-10-30T23:12:39 < mawk> sd is the limiting factor
2021-10-30T23:12:44 < qyx> it matters because the SD may stall up to about one second
2021-10-30T23:12:51 < mawk> yes
2021-10-30T23:13:01 < mawk> but if the sd is lame a buffer won't save it
2021-10-30T23:13:17 < mawk> no?
2021-10-30T23:13:19 < qyx> thats not about laming the SD, it is a fact
2021-10-30T23:13:24 < qyx> live with it
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2021-10-30T23:13:36 < qyx> you cannot get a SD to continuously write a stream of data
2021-10-30T23:13:43 < mawk> yes
2021-10-30T23:14:01 < mawk> I mean even with a big buffer the sd needs to be the proper class
2021-10-30T23:14:16 < qyx> yes but it is an unrelated problem
2021-10-30T23:14:25 < kakium69> I wonder how fast did fx2 capture with 2channels?
2021-10-30T23:14:28 < Steffann> just get a proper card that doesnt do this 
2021-10-30T23:15:32 < qyx> idk I tried many and all behave similarly, even the internet is full of ardweeners cmplaining about it
2021-10-30T23:15:52 < mawk> ic
2021-10-30T23:16:09 < mawk> so ardweeners complaining about class for the openlog is because it doesn't have a good buffer
2021-10-30T23:16:15 < mawk> because there's no cap on the board probably
2021-10-30T23:16:31 < qyx> even finding an answer to the question "how much should I wait to be sure the data is written correctly before cutting th power" is quite hard
2021-10-30T23:16:41 < kakium69> I got 16gig SLC card for rasp
2021-10-30T23:16:59 < kakium69> very predictable perfomance
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2021-10-31T03:11:00 < catphish> kakium69: we have both
2021-10-31T03:11:45 < catphish> kakium69: my kitchen has a mixer, but all bathroom basins and bath are separate
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2021-10-31T14:10:49 < Steffann> Good morning kakium69 . You're early 
2021-10-31T14:34:45 < mawk> I'm going to France Steffann 
2021-10-31T14:34:50 < mawk> do you want macarons?
2021-10-31T14:36:22 < Steffann> non, merci.
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2021-10-31T15:13:48 < bitmask> why did i enable os x's new feature called screen time
2021-10-31T15:13:52 < bitmask> i dont wanna see that shit
2021-10-31T15:14:59 < Steffann> ok
2021-10-31T15:15:07 < bitmask> ok
2021-10-31T15:15:32 < Steffann> thanks
2021-10-31T15:15:53 < bitmask> bless you
2021-10-31T15:19:19 < Steffann> Achoo
2021-10-31T15:28:08 < karlp> hrm, mySTB is getting an OTA update this week, that will apparently enable usage of it over wifi, not just ethernet.
2021-10-31T15:28:21 < karlp> I wonder how long that hardware has been sitting there waiting for this update?
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2021-10-31T15:32:33 < karlp> heh, my mum has just been published (plant stuff) and it just has her home address, as she's not part of any institution
2021-10-31T15:33:27 < karlp> Anthoceros Palssoniae
2021-10-31T15:39:17 < mawk> your name goes to posterity karlp 
2021-10-31T15:41:01 < karlp> nah, mum's does :)
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2021-10-31T16:51:57 < Steffann> Damn it, why this nrf stuff is such mess? Im just trying to start a project. and the shit gives me is AWFUL
2021-10-31T16:52:22 < Steffann> vs code shit doesnt work. segger studio projects give me some zephyr SHIT i dont want. 
2021-10-31T16:52:35 < Steffann> did i say its shit yet?
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2021-10-31T16:53:08 < ventYl> there is opencm3 fork which has *some* support for *some* nrf
2021-10-31T16:53:17 < ventYl> so far I know it can be built
2021-10-31T16:56:51 < PaulFertser> ventYl: related: free software BLE stack for them https://github.com/apache/mynewt-nimble
2021-10-31T16:57:49 < ventYl> PaulFertser: I know, I already have pinetime and infinitime is using this
2021-10-31T16:58:09 < PaulFertser> Great :)
2021-10-31T16:58:30 < ventYl> hope to mate my RTOS with nRF opencm3 fork and port nimble on top of that
2021-10-31T16:59:08 < Steffanx> hmm, lets check that out PaulFertser. i dont need that much. like a few buttons, low power and ble
2021-10-31T16:59:42 < ventYl> Steffanx: search for unicore-mx
2021-10-31T16:59:55 < ventYl> mynewt looks like nothing amazing to me
2021-10-31T17:00:01 < PaulFertser> ventYl: what's wrong with mynewt for your purposes?
2021-10-31T17:00:09 < ventYl> yet another freertosoid
2021-10-31T17:01:14 < ventYl> PaulFertser: personal interest in exploration of RTOS internals
2021-10-31T17:01:30 < PaulFertser> ventYl: noble goal
2021-10-31T17:02:34 < ventYl> I wonder how high can I aim before I fail miserably
2021-10-31T17:06:23 < Steffanx> ventYl i dont see how this really helps me. I dont seen anything BLE related.
2021-10-31T17:11:06 < ventYl> Steffanx: that's just hal, but you can put that nimble stuff on top of it, without draggning mynewt in
2021-10-31T17:11:34 < PaulFertser> InifiniTime is using FreeRTOS + nimble.
2021-10-31T17:12:02 < ventYl> + nrf sdk
2021-10-31T17:18:47 < catphish> woo pcbs are in germany :) won't be long now
2021-10-31T17:20:31 < PaulFertser> Gents, beware of chinese automotive fuses. A part which is supposed to be rated for 20 A can withstand 50 A for enough seconds to melt wires :(
2021-10-31T17:22:38 < PaulFertser> http://offroad38.ru/pics/tuning/electrica/006.jpg
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2021-10-31T17:24:10 < catphish> oh dear
2021-10-31T17:24:54 < catphish> i bought this rather beautiful cable last week https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/oAwAAOSwS7xheX-l/s-l1600.jpg
2021-10-31T17:25:10 < catphish> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mK8AAOSwVqZheX-p/s-l1600.jpg
2021-10-31T17:27:54 < PaulFertser> Wished I knew that before it damaged 4+ long wires in a cable on my bike after I made a mistake of forgetting to attach horn :(
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2021-10-31T17:35:21 < mawk> Steffan use the old style sdk 
2021-10-31T17:35:25 < mawk> it provides makefile and gcc examples
2021-10-31T17:35:29 < mawk> just copy one and build from thay
2021-10-31T17:35:43 < mawk> it also provides a java thingie to enable the relevant libs in the config.h
2021-10-31T17:35:49 < mawk> that's how I do it
2021-10-31T17:36:07 < mawk> or use the zephyr shit yes but that's like 2h of setting up boilerplate
2021-10-31T17:37:31 < mawk> you get more than double the intensity for the same price, you should rejoice PaulFertser 
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2021-10-31T17:54:25 < Steffanx> oh, i see. i even downloaded that. i missed the makefiles and stuff
2021-10-31T17:54:27 < Steffanx> thanks mr mawk
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2021-10-31T18:08:07 < ventYl> PaulFertser: Some of them "work" in a way, that metal portion of fuse will withstand the current, but plastic carrier will melt
2021-10-31T18:08:35 < PaulFertser> ventYl: it's not work if they're not protecting when the current gets too high, that's the problem.
2021-10-31T18:08:53 < ventYl> yeah, on top of that, fuse itself imposes fire hazard
2021-10-31T18:09:26 < ventYl> first time ever, i have resolved SSL problem while showering
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2021-10-31T18:10:27 < PaulFertser> Shower helps me concentrate sometimes, so I'm not surprised.
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2021-10-31T18:42:39 < octorian> I'm finding myself tempted to see how small I can cram a UF2 bootloader for my project.  Most likely forking the code from TinyUF2 and building something with a more "standalone" source tree and customizations for my device.
2021-10-31T18:43:28 < octorian> I like having the built-in USB-DFU option, but its not as easy to wrap up as something for end-users (mostly because I'd need to package dfu-util with a friendly front-end, and that whole process just seems more difficult on an OS that isn't Linux).
2021-10-31T18:44:28 < octorian> Was worried I wouldn't have the space, but it looks like I can now justify the 16kb it'll hopefully fit inside (based on building that stack for the F4).
2021-10-31T18:44:54 < octorian> My main firmware is close to filling up the remainder, but I still have a bunch of things I could do to cut down on its code size if necessary.
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2021-10-31T21:08:07 < onio> Hello
2021-10-31T21:11:13 < onio> Is my post visible?
2021-10-31T21:12:53 < PaulFertser> onio: what post?
2021-10-31T21:14:51 < onio> Thanks PaulFertser, I just wanted to know if my message to the channel was visible as I am been having problem logging on
2021-10-31T21:15:22 < PaulFertser> But IRC doesn't require any kind of logging on.
2021-10-31T21:18:33 < onio> I was using HexChat client which I believe was using freenode. I must confess I am not sure how on IRC works. I found a website that said to use irc.libera.chat which seems to have help me log in 
2021-10-31T21:19:10 < ventYl> yeah, freenode is... abandonned
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2021-10-31T21:23:14 < kakium69> hello early
2021-10-31T21:24:06 < onio> I was hoping that someone can help point me in the right direction. I have a board with an STM32F405 microcontroller on board. I am trying to debug the board with VSCode and openocd.  
2021-10-31T21:25:04 < kakium69> what is the problem?
2021-10-31T21:25:15 < onio> I can debug fine (step,next, continue) using the a gdb -tui on a linux terminal but not with vscode
2021-10-31T21:26:00 < onio> using vscode it simply stops in the assembly code and does not continue
2021-10-31T21:26:30 < kakium69> did you find guide how to configure vscode to use openocd?
2021-10-31T21:29:41 < kakium69> you added some json file to .vscode?
2021-10-31T21:30:02 < onio> I did find one and followed it, I was instructed to create a "launch.json" and a "c_cpp_properties.json"
2021-10-31T21:30:47 < onio> I am trying to log into Ubuntu paste to share my json files but having problem logging in
2021-10-31T21:34:52 < onio> This is my launch.json: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RBHgYtfb4c/
2021-10-31T21:35:49 < PaulFertser> And is there any log with messages or errors?
2021-10-31T21:37:14 < kakium69> prelaunch commands look a bit lacking?
2021-10-31T21:37:39 < kakium69> it should have resets and halts and stuff?
2021-10-31T21:38:00 < PaulFertser> No, "load" does all that.
2021-10-31T21:38:17 < onio> no I can not see any error https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HtH3y3fFWS/
2021-10-31T21:38:42 < PaulFertser> That's just the build log. And you do not really need bin or ihex files.
2021-10-31T21:39:13 < kakium69> it doesn't matter to have them or not though
2021-10-31T21:39:14 < onio> I know PaulFertser, it is the elf that is used
2021-10-31T21:39:46 < kakium69> is there any debug log tab?
2021-10-31T21:40:00 < kakium69> "GDB" or so
2021-10-31T21:40:32 < onio> I have a DEBUG CONSOLE tab but it is clear
2021-10-31T21:41:20 < kakium69> should this thing start openocd?
2021-10-31T21:41:29 < onio> yes
2021-10-31T21:41:59 < onio> I can start openocd manually and connect using gdb -tui 
2021-10-31T21:42:29 < kakium69> I don't see enough stuff to start openocd in this
2021-10-31T21:42:31 < onio> and this works. I can single step and run manually as well
2021-10-31T21:43:08 < kakium69> assuming vscode doesn't know anything about openocd and using this file it should start
2021-10-31T21:44:43 < kakium69> and this is in windows
2021-10-31T21:44:52 < onio> openocd is in my path so from a command line I start as follows:  openocd -f st_nucleo_f4.cfg while in the right directory where the nucleo_f4.cfg is stored
2021-10-31T21:45:20 < onio> no this is Ubuntu 20.04
2021-10-31T21:46:45 < kakium69> you can have vscode in linux?
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2021-10-31T21:47:15 < onio> kakium69: yes, I am using vscode in linux
2021-10-31T21:47:29 < kakium69> https://gist.github.com/janjongboom/51f2edbee8c965741465fa5feefe4cf1
2021-10-31T21:47:41 < kakium69> 2nd google result
2021-10-31T21:47:45 < kakium69> much more complex
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2021-10-31T21:48:44 < onio> this is my c_cpp_properties.json https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pB3jZhyWYW/
2021-10-31T21:49:39 < kakium69> it seems to have nothing debug related
2021-10-31T21:53:20 < onio> kakium69: I thought that vscode would do that with the "Cortex-Debug" plugins
2021-10-31T21:53:37 < kakium69> ah
2021-10-31T21:57:03 < kakium69> https://lonesometraveler.github.io/2020/03/27/debug.html
2021-10-31T21:59:05 < onio> cool thanks
2021-10-31T21:59:32 < kakium69> https://higaski.at/vscode-arm-cortex-m-debugging/
2021-10-31T22:00:06 < kakium69> https://github.com/Marus/cortex-debug/wiki those links are from here
2021-10-31T22:04:56 < onio> I believe openocd is working fine. I just noticed this message in vscode OUTPUT tab. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qt6yty3KGM/
2021-10-31T22:06:29 < onio> I thought gdb server should be started on 3333
2021-10-31T22:07:11 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T22:07:27 < onio> This is the message that I see when I start manually https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hxqh9cqGmJ/
2021-10-31T22:07:28 < kakium69> did cortex plugin change it?
2021-10-31T22:07:54 < onio> that is something I have to try and find out. 
2021-10-31T22:08:15 < kakium69> onio: nothing is attached to that openocd?
2021-10-31T22:08:20 < kakium69> first one
2021-10-31T22:08:48 < kakium69> it says something when client is attached
2021-10-31T22:09:53 < onio> the first one I sent was the openocd started by vscode, the second one is me starting openocd manually from command line
2021-10-31T22:10:58 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T22:11:16 < kakium69> both have no gdb client attached right?
2021-10-31T22:11:16 < onio> on the vscode version I expected the debugger to connect to the server but it does not. On the command line version I intentionally did not connect but just wanted to see the openocd message for compare
2021-10-31T22:12:11 < onio> right. I was expecting cortex-debug to do the connection unless my understanding is wrong
2021-10-31T22:12:41 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T22:12:52 < kakium69> gdb client never attaches
2021-10-31T22:15:23 < onio> yes the vscode never attaches, that seems to be the problem. I am expecting that when it tries to attach it would try and use port 50000 as expected by the listen 
2021-10-31T22:18:53 < kakium69> you have gdb-arm-none-eabi installed?
2021-10-31T22:19:04 < kakium69> etc
2021-10-31T22:19:05 < onio> yes.
2021-10-31T22:21:10 < onio> I can debug using command line without any issue. I issue arm-none-eabi-gdb -tui build/STM32LORA.elf and this would start the debugger at which point I can then attach to the debug server
2021-10-31T22:21:24 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T22:23:00 < kakium69> I wonder if in linux you can listen stdio of child processes
2021-10-31T22:23:34 < kakium69> or see args
2021-10-31T22:23:39 < kakium69> of child processes
2021-10-31T22:24:29 < onio> I added the "runToMain": true, to launch.json and it seems to have connected to openocd but did not run to main()
2021-10-31T22:25:42 < onio> see logs from vscode OUTPUT tab: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jcpvfKXgFS/
2021-10-31T22:26:32 < ventYl> ah vscode
2021-10-31T22:26:38 < kakium69> what debug probe you have?
2021-10-31T22:27:15 < onio> do you been like st-link? I have v3
2021-10-31T22:28:54 < onio> kakium69: it looks like I am debugging now :)
2021-10-31T22:29:05 < kakium69> runToMain?
2021-10-31T22:29:11 < onio> yes
2021-10-31T22:29:14 < onio> wow
2021-10-31T22:29:18 < kakium69> interesting
2021-10-31T22:29:18 < onio> hurray
2021-10-31T22:29:21 < kakium69> that was easy
2021-10-31T22:29:35 < kakium69> try restart
2021-10-31T22:29:37 < kakium69> does it work
2021-10-31T22:29:50 < kakium69> some example had restart commands
2021-10-31T22:29:52 < onio> okay let me bite the bullet and try restart
2021-10-31T22:34:03 < onio> okay a bit weird but works I have to do the following (1) click the plugin debug button (2) it launches debug icons (3) click restart on debug icon 
2021-10-31T22:34:32 < onio> and followed by the continue button.
2021-10-31T22:37:24 < catphish> happy halloween all! https://i.imgur.com/9tftdZk.jpg
2021-10-31T22:38:46 < kakium69> nice pumpkin
2021-10-31T22:38:54 < catphish> thanks!
2021-10-31T22:39:09 < kakium69> is it real pumpkin?
2021-10-31T22:39:15 < catphish> yes, we grow them
2021-10-31T22:40:16 < kakium69> I have never seen pumpkin
2021-10-31T22:40:29 < onio> Thanks kakium69 and PaulFertser, I can now continue with my real project. as I created a simple blinky led project to prove my configurations as real project is big and under development  
2021-10-31T22:40:35 < catphish> where are you that doesn't have pumpkins?
2021-10-31T22:40:40 < catphish> they're super easy to grow
2021-10-31T22:40:50 < kakium69> keep us updated onio
2021-10-31T22:40:50 < catphish> though they don't taste great
2021-10-31T22:41:07 < kakium69> we like to hear about innovating
2021-10-31T22:41:27 < kakium69> catphish: still in funland
2021-10-31T22:41:53 < catphish> is that near finland?
2021-10-31T22:42:04 < kakium69> very close
2021-10-31T22:42:17 < catphish> *nod*
2021-10-31T22:42:46 < Steffanx> fony pumpkins grown in finland kakium69?
2021-10-31T22:42:51 < Steffanx> Dont you have green houses?
2021-10-31T22:42:55 < Steffanx> *dont
2021-10-31T22:43:22 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T22:43:41 < Steffanx> but
2021-10-31T22:43:47 < kakium69> exotic things like cucumbers and tomatoes are grown in greenhouses
2021-10-31T22:44:07 < kakium69> in summer mainly
2021-10-31T22:44:38 < Steffanx> You can eat pumpkin soup. and pancake pie is a thing too ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buTowr2lvrI )
2021-10-31T22:45:05 < kakium69> neighbour grows cucumbers and tomatoes in winter too in greenhouse
2021-10-31T22:45:26 < kakium69> 700kw of lights
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2021-10-31T22:51:30 < kakium69> Steffanx: only pumpkin thing I have tasted is pumpkin flavour coffee
2021-10-31T22:51:45 < kakium69> in yankeeland
2021-10-31T22:56:47 < kakium69> I ate reindeer again steff
2021-10-31T22:57:14 < catphish> i assume reindeer tastes much like regular deer
2021-10-31T22:57:58 < kakium69> red deer is very similar
2021-10-31T22:58:44 < kakium69> but reindeer is the bestest
2021-10-31T22:59:12 < catphish> we don't have reindeer here
2021-10-31T22:59:17 < catphish> not in the wild anyway
2021-10-31T22:59:46 < kakium69> you cannot unless you fly in food for reindeer
2021-10-31T23:00:03 < kakium69> fukkers eat only lichen
2021-10-31T23:01:25 < catphish> well that's a stupid diet
2021-10-31T23:01:40 < catphish> i don't know what normal deer eat, grass maybe
2021-10-31T23:01:59 < kakium69> yes
2021-10-31T23:02:53 < kakium69> in here around 63-64 north you cannot practically have reindeer because not enough lichen
2021-10-31T23:03:26 < kakium69> but somewhere above 65 it's everywhere
2021-10-31T23:03:46 < kakium69> no grass just lichen
2021-10-31T23:04:08 < kakium69> and moss
2021-10-31T23:04:19 < kakium69> eventually no even trees
2021-10-31T23:04:25 < kakium69> just lichen and moss
2021-10-31T23:04:48 < catphish> "Deer are browsers, and feed primarily on foliage of grasses, sedges, forbs, shrubs and trees, secondarily on lichens in northern latitudes during winter"
2021-10-31T23:05:48 < kakium69> ah reindeer can eat grass
2021-10-31T23:07:23 < kakium69> but during winter it's stomach goes into 2-stroke mode basically
2021-10-31T23:08:02 < catphish> *nod*
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2021-10-31T23:11:30 < kakium69> actually it seems reindeer eat anything
2021-10-31T23:11:49 < catphish> lol, it did sound like deer aren't very fussy
2021-10-31T23:12:00 < catphish> yay PCBs in London now, such excite
2021-10-31T23:13:28 < kakium69> grass, twigs, small trees, wetlands stuff, mushrooms, bush, moss, lichen
2021-10-31T23:14:30 < kakium69> I have heard reindeer even eat amanita muscarias
2021-10-31T23:17:02 < kakium69> after reindeer removed most of liver popping poisons the pee was drank
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 01 00:00:02 2021