--- Log opened Tue Feb 01 00:00:56 2022
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2022-02-01T07:37:02 < fenugrec> TIL there exists mosfets in DIP-4 package... that should be illegal, dip4 is for optocouplers
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2022-02-01T09:31:43 < benishor> finally got the multiple events per button work ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxGF45FkyuU&ab_channel=AdrianScripc%C4%83
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2022-02-01T12:28:45 < bitmask> "How and why is it that some worm could produce such uniform and wonderfully-shaped feces is remarkable to me," he said.
2022-02-01T12:29:41 < Steffann> Laurenceb is that you?
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2022-02-01T12:58:25 < bitmask> damn internet! didnt recognize you without the x Steffanx 
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2022-02-01T13:03:18 < Steffanx> Are you rob235 or Laurenceb?
2022-02-01T13:14:10 < qyx> who is rob
2022-02-01T13:15:57 < jpa-> i'm not it
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2022-02-01T13:27:29 < bitmask> psh
2022-02-01T13:28:08 < bitmask> very insulted by the question, it was funny the first time :P
2022-02-01T13:28:17 < bitmask> i am rob
2022-02-01T13:29:12 < bitmask> gotta run, be back in an hour
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2022-02-01T14:17:18 < jpa-> lol, lattice sent me email "Hey buy our fancy FPGAs!", i replied "When can I buy *any* of your FPGAs?", got reply: "Dunno, we hope maybe end of this year."
2022-02-01T14:19:54 < jadew> "Great, can I make a preorder @ full price?"
2022-02-01T14:22:13 < jadew> did you guys get all your preorders from last year?
2022-02-01T14:23:01 < jpa-> i made no preorders last year
2022-02-01T14:23:49 < jadew> I had some, but I think they were all fullfilled
2022-02-01T14:24:00 < jadew> can't tell for sure, cuz I don't even remember what I bought
2022-02-01T14:24:25 < jpa-> how are your shorts doing?
2022-02-01T14:24:33 < jadew> I lost all my money
2022-02-01T14:24:46 < jadew> so not good
2022-02-01T14:24:48 < jadew> :)
2022-02-01T14:25:36 < jadew> actually the shorts did great
2022-02-01T14:25:51 < jadew> I placed a bad order of the wrong size
2022-02-01T14:25:56 < jadew> wiped my account in minutes
2022-02-01T14:26:23 < jpa-> :D
2022-02-01T14:28:16 < jadew> motivated me to get back to work on other stuff
2022-02-01T14:28:30 < jadew> I'll get back into the stock market after the crash
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2022-02-01T14:36:38 < karlp> saw some coinbro transfer to the wrong address, wiped them out too :)
2022-02-01T14:37:19 < mawk> I put 200€ on bitcoin
2022-02-01T14:37:31 < jadew> now you have 100?
2022-02-01T14:37:31 < mawk> since I'm poor I can't put more
2022-02-01T14:37:33 < mawk> lol
2022-02-01T14:37:38 < mawk> no I did it today
2022-02-01T14:37:42 < mawk> now that's the dip is over
2022-02-01T14:38:00 < ventYl> is it?
2022-02-01T14:38:14 < mawk> it gained a few % last days 
2022-02-01T14:38:15 < mawk> so maybe
2022-02-01T14:38:22 < mawk> I don't have a technical analysis diploma 
2022-02-01T14:38:26 < mawk> I just saw a nice curve
2022-02-01T14:38:36 < ventYl> so the price is like $25k ?
2022-02-01T14:38:41 < mawk> no idea
2022-02-01T14:38:43 < mawk> I trade euros
2022-02-01T14:39:01 < mawk> neinundneunzig luftballons
2022-02-01T14:39:27 < jadew> bitcoin, or any other coin has value only as long as other people want it
2022-02-01T14:39:39 < mawk> like any useless shiny metal
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2022-02-01T14:39:53 < jadew> not really, metals are bought for a purpose
2022-02-01T14:40:07 < jadew> you can't build microchips with crypto
2022-02-01T14:40:35 < mawk> that's why I said useless metal
2022-02-01T14:41:07 < mawk> you can heat your flat with mining 
2022-02-01T14:41:25 < jadew> that's actually something that makes sense, yeah
2022-02-01T14:41:50 < karlp> saw a company making heaters for people, they'd give you "a cut" of the earnings :)
2022-02-01T14:41:59 < mawk> lol
2022-02-01T14:42:40 < karlp> actaulyl multiple, and neither of these are ones I saw first: https://heatbit.com/ and https://bitcoinminingheater.com/
2022-02-01T14:43:27 < jadew> yeah, sounds like a good idea
2022-02-01T14:43:38 < jadew> if other people are willing to pay for your heat, let them
2022-02-01T14:44:21 < karlp> NRE must be chunky but, yeah, it's "good" in as far as coin shitz are ever good.
2022-02-01T14:44:40 < jadew> what's NRE?
2022-02-01T14:45:36 < karlp> non-recoverable expenses, in this case, developing a entire consumer electronics product 
2022-02-01T14:45:42 < karlp> non-recurring sorry
2022-02-01T14:46:02 < karlp> works out the same :)
2022-02-01T14:47:04 < jadew> yeah, definitely a good product, but only if you're after a heater
2022-02-01T14:47:42 < jadew> the moment you start worrying about efficiency, it doesn't make sense anymore
2022-02-01T14:47:49 < qyx> why
2022-02-01T14:48:08 < jadew> because if you want a miner, you build a miner
2022-02-01T14:48:24 < jadew> that you can potentially upgrade, and it's much more flexible configuration wise
2022-02-01T14:48:25 < qyx> oh i though you are referring to the heating efficiency
2022-02-01T14:48:30 < qyx> that one should be quite good
2022-02-01T14:48:40 < jadew> yeah, that's going to be 100%
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2022-02-01T14:48:55 < zyp> heating efficiency of 1 isn't really all that good
2022-02-01T14:49:01 < jadew> haha
2022-02-01T14:49:02 < jpa-> pretty crappy compared to 400%
2022-02-01T14:49:06 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-01T14:49:11 < zyp> or more
2022-02-01T14:49:20 < zyp> isn't around 5 typical for a heat pump?
2022-02-01T14:49:23 < qyx> time to design a bitcoin pump
2022-02-01T14:49:30 < jpa-> depends on outdoor temperature
2022-02-01T14:49:37 < zyp> yes, but average
2022-02-01T14:49:43 < zyp> depends on location, sure
2022-02-01T14:49:46 < jpa-> yeah :)
2022-02-01T14:49:52 < qyx> but thats not efficiency of the device
2022-02-01T14:49:54 < jadew> like those heat exchange things?
2022-02-01T14:49:58 < zyp> and whether you average across summer while running as AC as well :p
2022-02-01T14:50:00 < jadew> where you have pipes in the ground?
2022-02-01T14:50:12 < zyp> jadew, all kinds
2022-02-01T14:50:12 < qyx> it is a virtual efficiency heat gain vs. electricity
2022-02-01T14:50:14 < jpa-> i think 4 is about average over a year in finland for air-to-air heat pump
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2022-02-01T14:50:26 < zyp> could be
2022-02-01T14:51:06 < zyp> I bet that when I get one, I'll use as much power for cooling in summer as I save on heating during winter :p
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2022-02-01T14:53:24 < ventYl> zyp: heatpump efficiency depends on shitload of parameters
2022-02-01T14:53:39 < ventYl> but >2 is fairly good expectation
2022-02-01T14:53:42 < ventYl> >>2 is doable
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2022-02-01T15:30:41 < benishor> heh, got a small oled and encoder working properly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twtVLhxZwro&ab_channel=AdrianScripc%C4%83
2022-02-01T15:30:48 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osyi-zAqqus&ab_channel=AdrianScripc%C4%83
2022-02-01T15:30:58 < benishor> bye bye, mbed
2022-02-01T15:38:55 < karlp> what are you using now?
2022-02-01T15:46:22 < fenugrec> benishor, losing pulses on the enc ?
2022-02-01T15:49:06 < benishor> fenugrec: nope, doing it on purpose, I have a fractional counter behind the scenes
2022-02-01T15:49:22 < benishor> that gets incremented and only when a full unit exists, I increment the values
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2022-02-01T15:49:56 < benishor> fenugrec: I was pissed off that one pulse on cheap chinese encoders is too easy to obtain
2022-02-01T15:50:00 < benishor> karlp: HAL
2022-02-01T15:52:16 < karlp> heh, decided to stop headbutting walls, right down a new plan, read the rest of the docs.  I've probablybeen running into problems with my low power modes because I'm not doing the "enter; wfi; exit" inside a crit section...
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2022-02-01T15:53:09 < karlp> also shit like this not being in the reference manual: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EBCbh.png
2022-02-01T15:56:26 < karlp> still not entirely sure how my non-ble demos werent' behaving consistently either, but so be it.
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2022-02-01T16:23:27 < bitmask> fukin' vulkin'
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2022-02-01T16:50:15 < tct> I´m debugging an STM32H7 system which first runs code from the internal FLASH and then jumps to code located in an external QSPI. I see that the PC gets initialized to the correct address but the system crashes afterwards. I try to step through the code but once I make the jump to the external flash memory GDB does not have any debugging information of that code there. can I somehow give GDB more than one ELF? so the one of the internal flash and the one of the
2022-02-01T16:50:22 < tct>  external one?
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2022-02-01T16:53:41 < karlp> you can just issue new "file" command whenever you like
2022-02-01T16:53:50 < karlp> I've done that when stepping frombootloader through into app
2022-02-01T16:54:34 < tct> so I fire up GDB with my bootloader.elf, step through code, when it made the jump, I stop stepping, do `file app.elf` and then I can step again?
2022-02-01T16:59:43 < karlp> that was enough fo rme, yes
2022-02-01T17:00:23 < tct> that seems to work reasonably well
2022-02-01T17:00:25 < tct> thank you Sir :)
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2022-02-01T17:18:03 < Steffanx> Don't you use Pro tools tct? Like SEGGER Ozone
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2022-02-01T17:30:26 < tct> hmm, could do that I guess
2022-02-01T17:36:11 < jpa-> and for low level debugging like that, display /i $pc and stepi is always a good option
2022-02-01T17:36:16 < jpa-> symbols are for newbies
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2022-02-01T19:11:11 < tct> so the CPU successfully jumps to code located in external QSPI. it then resets the clocks, switches back to HSI successfully but then crashes here:
2022-02-01T19:11:12 < tct> RCC->HSICFGR   = 0x40000000U;            /* HSICFGR Reset value.         */
2022-02-01T19:11:29 < tct> stepping that instructions then leads to:
2022-02-01T19:11:30 < tct> 0xdeadbeee in ?? ()
2022-02-01T19:11:40 < tct> and no backtrace: Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
2022-02-01T19:11:44 < tct> how would one go about debugging this?
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2022-02-01T19:27:25 < qyx> it may be broken
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2022-02-01T19:40:57 < jpa-> tct: you would do   display /i $pc   and then    stepi   to actually see why it ends up there
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2022-02-01T19:41:28 < jpa-> unless you have 0xdeadbeef  in your vector table as interrupt handler
2022-02-01T19:41:37 < tct> I certainly don´t :p
2022-02-01T19:42:22 < jpa-> checking vecstate after the weird jump would confirm whether it is in an exception handler
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2022-02-01T19:52:10 < tct> jpa-, I feel like I´m not really getting any more information out of this: 
2022-02-01T19:52:10 < tct> <Steffanx> Don't you use Pro tools tct? Like SEGGER Ozone
2022-02-01T19:52:22 < tct> !@#$% IRC client paste shizzl
2022-02-01T19:52:31 < tct> jpa-: https://pastebin.com/4ni79N9w
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2022-02-01T20:10:44 < tct> IBUSERR in BFSR is set to 1
2022-02-01T20:12:15 < karlp> is 0x9xxxx wehre the external flash is meant to be?
2022-02-01T20:13:22 < tct> yep
2022-02-01T20:13:28 < tct> 0x90000000 is the start address
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2022-02-01T20:15:22 < Steffanx> What happening to your irc skills tct
2022-02-01T20:15:27 < Steffanx> Whats*
2022-02-01T20:18:55 < karlp> so, are you trying to run from it before it's enabled?
2022-02-01T20:19:24 < karlp> like, pc went to 0x90009cb4 which it didn't like...
2022-02-01T20:19:53 < fenugrec> shouldn't that PC be an odd address
2022-02-01T20:19:54 < karlp> do you have ram at 0x20001fd8 ? is that expected?
2022-02-01T20:20:07 < fenugrec> or is that something else than M0/thumb
2022-02-01T20:20:10 < karlp> fenugrec: eh, that's probably just a display issue,
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2022-02-01T20:20:54 < fenugrec> ya, just something random to keep in mind
2022-02-01T20:23:17 < tct> 0x20001fd8 is the DTCM section which holds my vectors
2022-02-01T20:31:43 < jpa-> tct: have you checked if the external flash access is working at all?
2022-02-01T20:32:02 < jpa-> or actually
2022-02-01T20:32:09 < jpa-> it works until you start fiddling with RCC
2022-02-01T20:32:21 < jpa-> so maybe writing to RCC->CR breaks your flash access
2022-02-01T20:32:47 < jpa-> by e.g. disabling some clock it needs
2022-02-01T20:34:26 < tct> jup, that is my current hunch as well
2022-02-01T20:35:23 < jpa-> what clock are you running quadspi from?
2022-02-01T20:36:34 < tct> PLL1.Q
2022-02-01T20:37:54 < tct> stuff seems to work as intended if I don´t re-initialize clocks indeed
2022-02-01T20:40:03 < jpa-> yeah, writing   RCC->CR      = RCC_CR_HSION;   turns off all PLLs
2022-02-01T20:40:53 < tct> that is reasonable
2022-02-01T20:41:39 < jpa-> the STM32H7 bus matrix is pretty unforgiving when you do that, often it also locks up the debugger interface - getting IBUSERR is actually a pretty easy error indication :)
2022-02-01T20:42:17 < Steffanx> Sounds like mr jpa- has been there
2022-02-01T20:44:02 < tct> yeah, H7 debugging is a PITA
2022-02-01T20:44:55 < jpa-> "2021-04-09T17:27:41 < jpa-> i'm beginning to understand why they include MDMA every time you buy STM32H7xx"
2022-02-01T20:45:07 < tct> haha, yeah
2022-02-01T20:46:39 < jpa-> tct: so, when are you giving birth to your baby?
2022-02-01T20:47:56 < tct> jpa-, probably once my gf stops yelling at me for not wanting to make one.
2022-02-01T20:48:24 < Steffanx> I always thought it was mr tct not wanting
2022-02-01T20:48:28 < Steffanx> What's happening 
2022-02-01T20:48:40 < tct> yes, that.
2022-02-01T20:48:48 < tct> she´s yelling at me for me not wanting to make one.
2022-02-01T20:48:56 < Steffanx> Aah yes I misread it
2022-02-01T20:48:57 < jpa-> i thought you outsourced babymaking to your sister
2022-02-01T20:49:12 < jpa-> but nice to hear that you have a yelling gf
2022-02-01T20:49:14 < tct> yeah, that one should be ejected within the next 16 days or so
2022-02-01T20:49:22 < tct> jpa-, dutch gf. 
2022-02-01T20:49:25 < jpa-> maybe she'll fix you up
2022-02-01T20:49:30 < tct> lol
2022-02-01T20:50:29 < BrainDamage> is the difficulty in just not wanting the baby, or not wanting the sex entirely?
2022-02-01T20:50:46 < BrainDamage> are you comparing all your gf to steffanx?
2022-02-01T20:50:59 < jpa-> maybe yelling turns tct off
2022-02-01T20:51:04 < Steffanx> Yes our sexy times were the best. 
2022-02-01T20:51:16 < jpa-> steffie could give some tips to tct's gf
2022-02-01T20:51:26 < tct> I´m generally okay with regards to performing the act of sexual intercourse. but it does loose it´s appeal if the purpose is to craft a tiny human.
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2022-02-01T20:51:55 < tct> maybe Steffann was that guy from Zwolle my gf was dating
2022-02-01T20:52:05 < Steffanx> Unlikely
2022-02-01T20:52:46 < Steffanx> I wouldnt date a future tct-gf
2022-02-01T20:52:52 < fenugrec> Steffanxxx
2022-02-01T20:52:56 < tct> <3
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2022-02-01T20:57:18 < tct> tct is going to the train museum
2022-02-01T20:58:03 < zyp> is dutch gf an earlier stage of dutch wife?
2022-02-01T20:58:19 < tct> that was the idea, yeah.
2022-02-01T20:58:26 < jpa-> dutch wife needs an dutch oven
2022-02-01T20:58:30 < qyx> was?
2022-02-01T20:58:50 < tct> last time I was in .nl I used a gas stove the first time. holy shit that is so much nicer than electric
2022-02-01T20:59:00 < tct> put pan on, put fire on, instant heat.
2022-02-01T20:59:08 < tct> but we don´t really do that in .ch
2022-02-01T20:59:08 < jpa-> you don't have induction stove?
2022-02-01T20:59:12 < tct> nope
2022-02-01T20:59:15 < tct> cheap ass shit here
2022-02-01T20:59:17 < zyp> wat
2022-02-01T20:59:23 < jpa-> why does tct have cheap ass shit?
2022-02-01T20:59:27 < tct> rented apartment.
2022-02-01T20:59:29 < jpa-> i thought you were a millionaire
2022-02-01T20:59:35 < tct> nah, far from it
2022-02-01T20:59:37 < zyp> just get an induction stove?
2022-02-01T20:59:39 < tct> especially since $covid
2022-02-01T20:59:47 < zyp> that's what I did in the last apartment I rented :p
2022-02-01T20:59:56 < tct> yeah, that is on the ToDo list indeed :p
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2022-02-01T21:02:35 < jpa-> it's also safer once your baby learns to reach to the stovetop
2022-02-01T21:08:12 < Steffanx> Unlearn it..
2022-02-01T21:08:24 < qyx> haha
2022-02-01T21:09:17 < Steffanx> https://www.amazon.com/PetSpy-P620-Vibration-Rechargeable-Waterproof/dp/B074TC962J
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2022-02-01T21:14:34 < bitmask> plowing through snow instead of shoveling is much better
2022-02-01T21:15:12 < Steffanx> Is your heated jacket still alive?
2022-02-01T21:15:51 < bitmask> nope, i mean it could be but i havent needed it, turns out i just needed a decent coat
2022-02-01T21:16:09 < bitmask> i coulda used it today but it was mainly my hands cause I forgot my gloves
2022-02-01T21:16:41 < Steffanx> How cold is it in bitmaskland?
2022-02-01T21:17:38 < bitmask> right now its 2C
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2022-02-01T21:18:47 < bitmask> oh its gonna be 7C with rain on thur/fri so the snow should go bye bye I hope
2022-02-01T21:19:44 < bitmask> do you get a lot of snow? or any
2022-02-01T21:19:57 < Steffanx> Not a lot, just some.
2022-02-01T21:20:02 < Steffanx> but nothing this winter, so far.
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2022-02-01T21:20:24 < bitmask> this is maybe the 3rd time its snowed but first time its lasted more than 2-3 days
2022-02-01T21:20:52 < jpa-> we also have only 50cm or so of snow
2022-02-01T21:22:45 < bitmask> I wonder when the last time we had ~1/3rd of a meter was
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2022-02-01T22:48:04 < kakium69> night pumps
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2022-02-01T22:51:48 < BrainDamage> I read that as 50 Ohms of snow somehow
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2022-02-01T22:55:28 < bitmask> ohhhh what to do
2022-02-01T22:56:23 < englishman> i wonder if different snowpacks have different impedances/resistances
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2022-02-01T22:57:20 < karlp> one would assume so...
2022-02-01T22:57:26 < qyx> they do have different permittivities
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2022-02-01T23:00:18 < BrainDamage> impedance depends on velocity factor, which in turn is more or less proportional to the material's density
2022-02-01T23:00:38 < BrainDamage> so packing snow tighter will make it approach the same velocity factor as ice
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2022-02-01T23:08:02 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1cRGVaJF7Y
2022-02-01T23:08:18 < kakium69> musics
2022-02-01T23:08:24 -!- steve__ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-01T23:09:04 < kakium69> I have seen them live but.. I don't remember much
2022-02-01T23:10:14 < kakium69> I don't know if I heard them first time then
2022-02-01T23:15:49 < bitmask> go to sleep
2022-02-01T23:19:36 < kakium69> why though
2022-02-01T23:22:04 < kakium69> it would ruin night pumps
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2022-02-01T23:38:05 < kakium69> hello Kerr
2022-02-01T23:44:51 < bitmask> i thought you said you were going to sleep before
2022-02-01T23:45:02 < bitmask> oh no you didnt
2022-02-01T23:45:05 < bitmask> i misread hah
2022-02-01T23:51:09 < kakium69> no im night pumpin
2022-02-01T23:51:19 < kakium69> not night night
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--- Day changed Wed Feb 02 2022
2022-02-02T00:15:02 < englishman> doesn't your model assume continuity between snowflakes
2022-02-02T00:15:12 < englishman> surely there is a variable air-barrier and limited contact surface
2022-02-02T00:15:29 < qyx> thats what my show pit profiler does
2022-02-02T00:15:33 < englishman> the type of snow and density of snow would change those factors
2022-02-02T00:15:34 < qyx> except it is not built yet
2022-02-02T00:16:20 < qyx> there was not enough snow to even span a single 200 mm module since I started working on it
2022-02-02T00:16:36 < qyx> I need to go to *the mountains*
2022-02-02T00:16:45 < jpa-> what kind of show will you have in your pit?
2022-02-02T00:17:06 < qyx> "snow pit profile" is a thing
2022-02-02T00:17:32 < jpa-> just making fun of typo :)
2022-02-02T00:18:13 < qyx> oh I didn't notice
2022-02-02T00:18:20 < qyx> lol
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2022-02-02T02:41:27 < jadew> ok - cancel or cancel - ok?
2022-02-02T02:41:46 < jadew> stupid windows ruined me in this regard
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2022-02-02T02:50:49 < zyp> isn't that platform dependent?
2022-02-02T02:51:03 < zyp> use a toolkit that handles platform conventions :)
2022-02-02T02:51:06 < jadew> it is, but what do you do about websites?
2022-02-02T02:51:15 < zyp> oh, fuckit, do what you want
2022-02-02T02:51:48 < jadew> I will, but it takes a little getting used to, I'm going to go for cancel - ok
2022-02-02T02:51:59 < jadew> Windows is doing it the other way around
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2022-02-02T03:44:13 < bitmask> zyp: you're using moltenvk right?
2022-02-02T03:44:32 < bitmask> how the hell did you get imgui working?
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2022-02-02T04:02:52 < bitmask> wow, I think i might have figured it out
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2022-02-02T08:57:46 < bitmask> finally! https://i.imgur.com/JQhD5rH.png
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2022-02-02T09:01:25 < zyp> bitmask, nice
2022-02-02T09:01:44 < bitmask> not really, i cant believe it took 3 days to get imgui up and running
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2022-02-02T09:01:49 < bitmask> :P
2022-02-02T09:03:02 < bitmask> main problems were not adding the cpp files for the backend implementations and only #include the headers, and then had to switch to recording new commandbuffers each frame, ive been using pre-recorded CBs until now
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2022-02-02T13:01:19 < benishor> karlp: I ended up on an old post of yours regarding viewing swo logs on linux
2022-02-02T13:01:41 < benishor> I tried to run swopy/hack.py but I get no module named usb.core
2022-02-02T13:01:49 < benishor> not sure what dependency I am missing
2022-02-02T13:02:18 < karlp> you've got significantly better options this decade :)
2022-02-02T13:02:29 < benishor> karlp: which are? :)
2022-02-02T13:02:38 < benishor> this is my first interaction with swo
2022-02-02T13:02:56 < karlp> something like "tpiu config internal :3443 uart off 32000000 2000000
2022-02-02T13:03:17 < karlp> in you ropenocd config where 32 is your cpu clock, and 2 is your stlink or similar max clock 
2022-02-02T13:03:23 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-02T13:03:43 < karlp> and then https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/ for the interpretation
2022-02-02T13:04:14 < karlp> build that and then "orbcat -c0,%c" witll connect to port 3443 by defualt and decode channel 0 as characters
2022-02-02T13:04:44 < karlp> there's a gdb init file in orbuculum that's kinda heavily targetted to BMP, but you can see what you can do to enable pc tracing as well,
2022-02-02T13:05:05 < karlp> then youc an use orbtop -e your.elf as well and get some nice profiling too
2022-02-02T13:07:06 < benishor> I'm lost. I need some time to digest that :)
2022-02-02T13:07:43 < zyp> fwiw usb.core comes from pyusb
2022-02-02T13:07:51 < zyp> but I agree with karlp 
2022-02-02T13:09:15 < benishor> karlp: so I wrote a simple test using ITM_SendChar on stm32f103c8t, configured trace async sw in mx, connected swo pin to stlink's pin 13
2022-02-02T13:09:19 < benishor> and now what
2022-02-02T13:10:17 < zyp> now 12:02:56 < karlp> something like "tpiu config internal :3443 uart off 32000000 2000000
2022-02-02T13:10:20 < zyp> 12:03:17 < karlp> in you ropenocd config where 32 is your cpu clock, and 2 is your stlink or similar max clock 
2022-02-02T13:11:41 < karlp> (I guarantee you don't really want to use my old hacking directly on usb trace reading out of stlink by hand, that was before some ST people started sidechanneling api docs to openocd, it was pure reveng at the time)
2022-02-02T13:12:26 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/rtKSMj1Y
2022-02-02T13:12:38 < benishor> but no output on the console
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2022-02-02T13:13:32 < zyp> that's an old openocd
2022-02-02T13:13:38 < zyp> might want to update that
2022-02-02T13:13:42 < karlp> absolutely.
2022-02-02T13:14:33 < benishor> would 0.11.0-rc2 do? that's what's in the ubuntu repos
2022-02-02T13:14:36 < karlp> you can actually do stuff, but you need to have it write to a file instead of the ":3443" bit, and then do some dancing with tail and/netcat and other tools, and really, just updating openocd is much easier.
2022-02-02T13:14:56 < karlp> they have rc2 in a repo? what pseudo ubuntu do you hve?
2022-02-02T13:15:00 < karlp> but yeah, rc2 is probably fine.
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2022-02-02T13:17:32 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/jZdL6cN5
2022-02-02T13:17:40 < benishor> should I get traces in the console?
2022-02-02T13:18:46 -!- m5zs7k [aquares@web10.mydevil.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-02-02T13:18:51 < karlp> now you need the next two lines I typed :)
2022-02-02T13:19:00 < karlp> 11:03 <karlp> and then https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/ for the interpretation
2022-02-02T13:19:02 < karlp> 11:04 <karlp> build that and then "orbcat -c0,%c" witll connect to port 3443 by defualt and decode channel 0 as characters
2022-02-02T13:19:15 < benishor> oh, ok, sorry I skimmed that
2022-02-02T13:19:22 < karlp> openocd is handling reading the trace buffer out of the stlink capture, and making it available for "any consumers"
2022-02-02T13:19:39 < karlp> orbuculum package is good, and has a variety of different tools.
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2022-02-02T13:19:48 < benishor> got it
2022-02-02T13:20:07 < karlp> orbcat is the basic one that can take channels and printf formatting
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2022-02-02T13:21:04 < karlp> so if you have "itm_send(12, valu); itm_send(13, time)" you can do orbcat -c "12,My value is :%d\n" -c "13,timing report: %f\n" sort of thing
2022-02-02T13:22:00 < karlp> and if you've done something like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/yN1Cu to retarget printf, you can just do "orbcat -c0,%c"
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2022-02-02T13:24:33 < benishor> ➜  ofiles git:(main) ./orbcat -c0,%c
2022-02-02T13:24:34 < benishor> Could not connect
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2022-02-02T13:25:14 < karlp> check your syntax in your config file
2022-02-02T13:25:25 < karlp> you seem to have a print of the tpiu config?
2022-02-02T13:25:30 < karlp> yhou should get a line like "Info : Listening on port 3443 for tpiu_swo_trace connections"
2022-02-02T13:25:44 < karlp> karlp | something like "tpiu config internal :3443 uart off 32000000 2000000
2022-02-02T13:25:58 < karlp> that line was meant to have quotes around it, not imply that the line should just start with a "
2022-02-02T13:26:09 < karlp> I think you're just echoing a string at the end of your config file.
2022-02-02T13:26:17 < benishor> sorry, I was being a bit retarded
2022-02-02T13:26:21 < benishor> yes
2022-02-02T13:26:24 < benishor> just a sec
2022-02-02T13:26:28 < karlp> it's ok, there's a lot of bullshit incantations going around
2022-02-02T13:26:52 < benishor> should I put it in the interface config or the target?
2022-02-02T13:27:01 < benishor> interface I presume
2022-02-02T13:27:03 < karlp> it's not part of either...
2022-02-02T13:27:27 < karlp> it's application specific, so it goes either a) as an extra -c command at the end if you're masochistic, or just an extra line in your project openocd.cfg
2022-02-02T13:28:14 < karlp> like here's my current openocd.cfg https://paste.centos.org/view/2f38a187
2022-02-02T13:28:27 < karlp> (the other tpiu config is some hate shit, don't pay too much attention to it right now)
2022-02-02T13:28:43 < benishor> thanks for sharing
2022-02-02T13:29:10 < karlp> if you name it openocd.cfg, openocd will load it by default from the current dir...
2022-02-02T13:29:30 < zyp> hate shit? :)
2022-02-02T13:30:49 < benishor> so much voodoo
2022-02-02T13:31:10 < benishor> but luckily I progressed: Info : accepting 'armv7m_trace' connection on tcp/3443
2022-02-02T13:31:15 < benishor> and orbcat doesn't complain anymore, it connects
2022-02-02T13:32:26 < karlp> from gdb do "mon itm port 0 on" just in case, it used to be default, I can't rememeber whether it's still automatically enabled or not.
2022-02-02T13:35:15 < benishor> hurray! first connection test works! I managed to send a byte
2022-02-02T13:35:28 < benishor> thank you, karlp! I wouldn't have done it without you
2022-02-02T13:35:58 < benishor> any tips on idiomatic swo tracing?
2022-02-02T13:37:00 < zyp> what are you tracing?
2022-02-02T13:38:04 < benishor> generic debugging 
2022-02-02T13:38:19 < zyp> like mentioned earlier, you can either use it as a print channel or use different ITM channels for different values
2022-02-02T13:39:00 < zyp> and then you can also do cool stuff like enabling DWT sampling and running orbtop on that
2022-02-02T13:39:51 < benishor> that's for profiling?
2022-02-02T13:40:09 < zyp> yeah, orbtop is a form of sample profiling
2022-02-02T13:40:25 < benishor> awesome, but let me get the basics first
2022-02-02T13:40:40 < benishor> thank you guys for help, much appreciated!
2022-02-02T13:43:25 < benishor> any easy way to redirect printf to channel 0?
2022-02-02T13:44:03 < zyp> I believe you hook in a write() stub for newlib
2022-02-02T13:44:28 < benishor> osom
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2022-02-02T13:48:44 < zyp> karlp, came to think of when you talked about swo speed changing with sleep modes, so I just went to check availability of sync trace in wb55
2022-02-02T13:49:12 < zyp> pins are only available on the wlcsp and ufbga, but the wb5b got them readily broken out
2022-02-02T13:49:17 < zyp> wb5m*
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2022-02-02T13:56:09 < karlp> sync trace isn't any good for me anyway..... no hardwre right? ;)
2022-02-02T13:56:48 < karlp> I mean, when it gets that far I'll try and be a good boy and break them out, but right now the nucleo board is doing sufficiently...
2022-02-02T13:57:53 < karlp> benishor: even in hal world, there's often a _write implementation, and in the WB hal shits, there's evenjust config options to make it to go ITM as well sometimes?
2022-02-02T13:58:01 < benishor> what is your typical cubeide run configuration? do you use a standalone openocd? started by cube?
2022-02-02T13:58:45 < karlp> I don't have one, I ctrl-click around cube to rip out code, but I hate working there
2022-02-02T14:00:06 < zyp> karlp, working on it :)
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2022-02-02T14:01:06 < benishor> karlp: so what do you use?
2022-02-02T14:01:16 < benishor> I'm more into clion and vscode
2022-02-02T14:02:29 < karlp> I use netbeans normally.
2022-02-02T14:02:42 < karlp> I don't have a clion license, thought I'm a heavy intellij/pycharm user.
2022-02-02T14:03:41 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2022-02-02T14:08:53 < benishor> I bit the bullet and bought the jetbrains toolbox five years ago since I used many of their ides
2022-02-02T14:09:08 < benishor> so now I pay less per year
2022-02-02T14:10:43 < karlp> yah, I don'tuse enough of the pro features, and clion (still?) only supports cmake projects 
2022-02-02T14:11:25 < karlp> I had a pay license for 5 or somthing when I did java for $job, and there was no community version
2022-02-02T14:12:06 < benishor> karlp: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/clion/makefiles-support.html
2022-02-02T14:12:46 < benishor> and here's the overview of the approach https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2020/06/makefile-projects-in-clion/
2022-02-02T14:12:57 < karlp> about fucking time.
2022-02-02T14:13:14 < karlp> oh, I think I read the 2020/06 post and thought it was nowhere near ready yet,
2022-02-02T14:13:17 < karlp> maybe it's continued to improve
2022-02-02T14:13:22 < karlp> nowadays I want scons anyway
2022-02-02T14:13:32 < karlp> netbeans has had first class make/autohell/cmake/scons since ~forever
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2022-02-02T14:37:14 < benishor> hmmm .. openocd keeps reconnecting and I I can't tell why
2022-02-02T14:37:40 < benishor> it seems pure random
2022-02-02T14:38:22 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/tSZd8Qsz
2022-02-02T14:38:53 < benishor> I can't see a pattern on when it's reconnecting
2022-02-02T14:39:28 < karlp> sleeping? bad wires? can't say
2022-02-02T14:42:56 < karlp> schweet, 220F supercaps
2022-02-02T14:42:58 < benishor> none. If I connect st-trace for instance it doesn't do that
2022-02-02T14:45:12  * karlp shrugs
2022-02-02T14:45:19 < karlp> try a newer openocd? might have been the reason for the rc?
2022-02-02T14:45:29 < karlp> no clue sorry, but that doesn't look to be trace related?
2022-02-02T14:53:47 < benishor> no, it's not trace related. I was just mentioning that st-trace works just fine
2022-02-02T14:53:56 < benishor> thanks for all your help, karlp
2022-02-02T14:55:09 < benishor> one more question on the subject though: what's the performance impact on printing stuff to ITM?
2022-02-02T14:55:59 < karlp> "very low"
2022-02-02T14:56:08 < karlp> the pritnf portion is bigger.
2022-02-02T14:56:34 < benishor> very nice! and I assume it's even less if no swo viewer is connected, right?
2022-02-02T14:58:25 < karlp> doesn't atually matter
2022-02-02T14:58:45 < karlp> you're itm write can either a) jsut write the data to the port, regardless,
2022-02-02T14:58:59 < karlp> b) check whether the channel is enabled first
2022-02-02T14:59:14 < karlp> c) check whether the port is free, to avoid overrunning
2022-02-02T14:59:18 < karlp> or any combination of them
2022-02-02T15:00:02 < karlp> if you do c) you _may_ slow down your program while you wait for data to write out, but not meaninguflly IME,  and if you do c) you may like to do b) to avoid that if the channel is disabled.
2022-02-02T15:00:23 < karlp> you can also just go with "blast it! yolo" and get some overruns sometimes, depends whether that matters to you or not.
2022-02-02T15:00:34 < karlp> that's the least impact on app code.
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2022-02-02T15:01:08 < karlp> but really, learning ot use "itm_out(chan, value)" and formatting on the orbcat side is much better for performance than using printf() targetting to channel 0
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2022-02-02T15:05:46 < benishor> speaking of orbcat, how can I format strings coming on channel 0?
2022-02-02T15:06:03 < karlp> same as any other channel
2022-02-02T15:06:07 -!- Alexer [~alexer@alexer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-02T15:06:08 < benishor> -c0,%c shows gibberish
2022-02-02T15:06:25 < karlp> what are you writing with itm?
2022-02-02T15:06:33 < karlp> chars? or something else?
2022-02-02T15:06:42 < benishor> chars, a string with printf()
2022-02-02T15:06:52 < benishor> st-trace correctly displays that
2022-02-02T15:07:47 < karlp> do you ahve multiple things running at the same time trying to talk to like stlink-server or something silly?
2022-02-02T15:07:54 < benishor> nein
2022-02-02T15:08:00 < karlp> are you saying that other channels work but not zero?
2022-02-02T15:08:10 < benishor> I'm not trying others channels, just 0 for now
2022-02-02T15:08:21 < benishor> and channel 0 displays fine when using st-trace
2022-02-02T15:08:26 < jpa-> can be also tpiu on/off setting difference
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2022-02-02T15:08:40 < karlp> hrm, might be tpiu shits, yeah, fuck that waste of data
2022-02-02T15:09:06 < karlp> switching back and forth between oocd and stlink stuff might be doing weird things to unexpected debug registers
2022-02-02T15:09:19 < karlp> power cycle, openocd, orbcat?
2022-02-02T15:10:14 < karlp> oh, this probably also changed in orbculum at one poitn I'm on the dev branch
2022-02-02T15:10:23 < karlp> orbcat -h? is there a help option about tpiu on or off?
2022-02-02T15:11:33 < benishor> gibberish: https://imgur.com/a/ROP3Gqf
2022-02-02T15:12:16 < benishor> I added a second image there with st-trace output
2022-02-02T15:12:17 < karlp> eh, I just rebuilt orb shits from main and it's working here.
2022-02-02T15:12:50 < jpa-> could also be wrong baudrate
2022-02-02T15:13:03 < jpa-> what's in your openocd_config?
2022-02-02T15:13:11 < karlp> yeh, if your sysclock isn't actually at 72mhz like you told it, shit wil be fucked up
2022-02-02T15:14:17 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/zy9b7cZR
2022-02-02T15:14:31 < benishor> that's my config
2022-02-02T15:14:41 < benishor> I don't get why st-trace is working though
2022-02-02T15:16:04 < karlp> sorry, never used it, clocks not being what you think is a good idea though
2022-02-02T15:16:39 < karlp> I mena, your sttrace says it's expecting 151Mhz clock though?
2022-02-02T15:16:48 < jpa-> you could check with scope to see if it is pushing stuff out at 2MHz
2022-02-02T15:17:03 < benishor> oh shit
2022-02-02T15:17:05 < benishor> you are right
2022-02-02T15:17:15 < karlp> with 20meg of flash too, whatever it's talkingabout
2022-02-02T15:17:59 < karlp> is st-trace from texane?
2022-02-02T15:18:06 < karlp> that smells like texane
2022-02-02T15:18:27 < benishor> https://github.com/stlink-org/stlink
2022-02-02T15:18:56 < karlp> yeah, texane.
2022-02-02T15:19:16 < benishor> karlp, jpa-: yup, that was it
2022-02-02T15:19:27 < benishor> stupid me was sure I had the clock set at 72MHz
2022-02-02T15:19:31 < benishor> but it was at 48MHz
2022-02-02T15:19:36 < benishor> sorry for wasting your time
2022-02-02T15:19:42 < benishor> orbcat works a treat naw
2022-02-02T15:19:47 < jpa-> .. and that is why st-trace works at 151MHz, ok, makes sense ;)
2022-02-02T15:20:10 < benishor> =)))
2022-02-02T15:20:17 < karlp> like I said, that sort of stuff was smelling like texane ;)
2022-02-02T15:20:39 < jpa-> i wish stlink just had autobaud for SWO
2022-02-02T15:20:48 < karlp> tell me about it, so stupid.
2022-02-02T15:20:57 < karlp> especially when there's a fucking literal bit pattern
2022-02-02T15:21:05 < karlp> it won't even do it if you enable sync frames
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2022-02-02T15:22:04 < karlp> man, I'm building armbian in docker, and it's .... _incredibly_ slow.
2022-02-02T15:22:43 < benishor> run it on a nvme
2022-02-02T15:22:48 < karlp> I am...
2022-02-02T15:22:52 < benishor> ouch
2022-02-02T15:23:05 < karlp> there's clearly something totally busted, but I can't see what it is.
2022-02-02T15:23:06 < qyx> I wonder if you want to receive some additional questions to increase your blood pressure
2022-02-02T15:24:14 < jpa-> karlp: now that you are channel's resident C++ expert, what is your favourite way to explicitly initialize objects that are in static storage?
2022-02-02T15:24:29 < karlp> lol
2022-02-02T15:24:44 < karlp> I barely know how to initailize thigns as they are.
2022-02-02T15:24:57 < benishor> static Class object{...}?
2022-02-02T15:25:03 < karlp> static auto hatred = blah() vs blah{} wat
2022-02-02T15:25:14 < karlp> yeah, I don't have a fucking clue on that :)
2022-02-02T15:25:57 < karlp> I wonder if I'm in some pit of docker/podman networking being shit.
2022-02-02T15:26:00 < jpa-> so far i have   1) global constructors, can't control when it gets initialized   2) instead of constructor, just have .initialize() or similar    3) placement new   4) static storage inside a function scope
2022-02-02T15:26:19 < benishor> jpa-: tried the singleton antipattern?
2022-02-02T15:26:21 < karlp> what's placement new?
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2022-02-02T15:26:37 < benishor> initializing an object in a given memory location
2022-02-02T15:26:39 < benishor> iirc
2022-02-02T15:26:42 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-02T15:26:46 < jpa-> static uint8_t g_buffer[sizeof(Foo)];   void init() { new (g_buffer) Foo(my args); }
2022-02-02T15:27:02 < jpa-> but then alignment is wrong etc.
2022-02-02T15:27:04 < benishor> jpa-: I would go with RAII, singleton
2022-02-02T15:27:16 < benishor> initialize on first use
2022-02-02T15:27:26 < zyp> for what?
2022-02-02T15:27:44 < zyp> singletons are generally bad, and you don't want that on an mcu
2022-02-02T15:27:46 < jpa-> the class is for hardware interface, i have a specific point in time when i want to initialize it and also arguments i want to give it
2022-02-02T15:27:52 < benishor>  <jpa-> so far i have   1) global constructors, can't control when it gets initialized   2) instead of constructor, just have .initialize() or similar 
2022-02-02T15:28:15 < benishor> then an .Init() should do it
2022-02-02T15:28:30 < benishor> if you have a precise point in time in which you are initializing
2022-02-02T15:28:42 < jpa-> sure, it works - but i don't know if i should like it or not
2022-02-02T15:28:59 < benishor> you could even make it a static class
2022-02-02T15:29:14 < zyp> for regular application code that's messy, but I do that in microcontroller C++
2022-02-02T15:29:32 < benishor> because I bet you won't have more instances of that
2022-02-02T15:29:41 < jpa-> annoying thing about .init() is that you can't have references as member variables
2022-02-02T15:29:52 < zyp> my USB stack classes are using the constructors to initialize members, but have init member functions to actually start doing stuff
2022-02-02T15:29:57 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-02T15:29:59 < jpa-> like   class MyFancyChip { private: SPIDriver &m_spi; }   doesn't work with .init()
2022-02-02T15:30:02 < zyp> hence the split
2022-02-02T15:30:23 < zyp> constructor stores the reference, but it's not accessed before init()
2022-02-02T15:30:23 < benishor> constructor private and make a static factory method
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2022-02-02T15:30:49 < jpa-> i'm not sure if   std::optional   might work
2022-02-02T15:31:23 < zyp> ah, yeah, that might be a good solution
2022-02-02T15:31:47 < zyp> never tried std::optional as a global, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't work
2022-02-02T15:31:48 < jpa-> other option i've been considering is making some own template class that wraps placement new
2022-02-02T15:32:02 < zyp> nah, optional should do
2022-02-02T15:32:11 < zyp> then you call emplace() to call the constructor
2022-02-02T15:32:14 < benishor> what is it that you want to achieve though?
2022-02-02T15:32:25 < karlp> hrm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1332440 looks suspicious...
2022-02-02T15:32:28 < zyp> and reset() to call the destructor
2022-02-02T15:32:31 < zyp> huh
2022-02-02T15:32:32 < zyp> I like that
2022-02-02T15:35:34 < qyx> 14:29 < benishor> because I bet you won't have more instances of that
2022-02-02T15:35:41 < qyx> I heard that multiple times in the past
2022-02-02T15:35:43 < jpa-> for simple stuff     int main() { static SPIDriver spi(SPI1, 100000); static ChipDriver chip1(spi, nss_pin); static ChipDriver chip2(spi, nss2_pin); ... }  is also quite ok, but gets weird when done across modules
2022-02-02T15:36:07 < zyp> hmm
2022-02-02T15:36:48 < zyp> not really impressed by the code generated from std::optional: https://godbolt.org/z/h5jhEbjqq
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2022-02-02T15:39:41 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, and looks like it doesn't compile if Foo is not default-constructible (contains reference)
2022-02-02T15:40:10 < zyp> oh, my bad, I didn't provide a destructor
2022-02-02T15:40:12 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/PcvYW3q9K
2022-02-02T15:40:22 < jpa-> no it does
2022-02-02T15:40:29 < jpa-> i just messed up also
2022-02-02T15:40:33 < zyp> :)
2022-02-02T15:41:08 < jpa-> hmm, looks reasonable actually
2022-02-02T15:41:13 < zyp> yeah, reference works nicely
2022-02-02T15:42:02 < zyp> apart from putting shit in .fini_array that's probably never getting called, it's fairly reasonable
2022-02-02T15:42:33 < jpa-> that doesn't happen either if you just leave out the ~Foo() {}  line altogether
2022-02-02T15:42:53 < zyp> right
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2022-02-02T15:43:46 < karlp> I like how you can read https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/optional and have no idea that's the wya you're meant to use emplace.
2022-02-02T15:43:51 < karlp> c++is so welcoming
2022-02-02T15:44:22 < zyp> emplace() is «construct in place» for all the container types as well
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2022-02-02T15:51:07 < karlp> great, so my container mounts a volume and it can't read it.
2022-02-02T15:51:50 < zyp> so this week, docker is the thing to get angry at?
2022-02-02T15:52:59 < karlp> nah, just trying to do soemthing different to let my brain relax or change gears
2022-02-02T15:53:11 < karlp> I suspect this is just a "you're holding it wrong"
2022-02-02T15:53:27 < karlp> because I'm using podman instead of docker on fedora when the only "supported" method is using docker itself.
2022-02-02T15:54:13 < karlp> but it seems odd that just a -v/home/karlp/src/armbian-build-root:/root/armbian wouldn't work, when there's other -v commands that work jsut fine.
2022-02-02T16:01:02 < jadew> tf is going on? is the chip shortage still a thing?
2022-02-02T16:01:19 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-02T16:01:50 < jpa-> jadew: STM32 is expected to be available in 2027
2022-02-02T16:01:59 < jadew> wow...
2022-02-02T16:02:13 < jadew> I thought the whole thing was over by now
2022-02-02T16:02:15 < jadew> damn...
2022-02-02T16:02:57 < jadew> I'm out of voltage regulators
2022-02-02T16:03:48 < zyp> huh, mouser is out of stm32wb5m
2022-02-02T16:03:52 < zyp> they had 7k yesterday
2022-02-02T16:03:58 < karlp> they did?
2022-02-02T16:04:03 < jadew> someone snatched them all?
2022-02-02T16:04:04 < karlp> they had none a week or two ago,
2022-02-02T16:04:05 < jpa-> https://community.st.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/renditionDownload?rendition=ORIGINAL_Png&versionId=0683W00000FBwfs&operationContext=CHATTER&contentId=05T3W00000nm6en
2022-02-02T16:04:15 < karlp> I bought 10 from arrow to have a few on hand for first serious protos
2022-02-02T16:04:17 < jadew> you'll be able to buy them at 10x the price in a couple of days, from ebay
2022-02-02T16:04:27 < karlp> just going to assume it's all sorted out later...
2022-02-02T16:05:03 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-02T16:05:04 < zyp> they had like 10k on order for 31st, we ordered a couple for a project and they arrived a week early
2022-02-02T16:05:38 < zyp> and there were still 7k showing as in stock monday or yesterday
2022-02-02T16:06:09 < jadew> this crap is really annoying
2022-02-02T16:06:36 < jadew> guess I'll have to find an alternative
2022-02-02T16:06:59 < karlp> zyp: so when ar eyou going to fix up my low power wb stuff in laks ? :)
2022-02-02T16:07:13 < karlp> or is someone else doing it all in cube?
2022-02-02T16:08:05 < zyp> yeah, some students are doing a bachelor's thesis with us
2022-02-02T16:08:13 < zyp> not gonna push them to use laks :)
2022-02-02T16:09:43 < zyp> we're mostly a nrf52 shop, but uni uses stm32, so I think the idea is that we might port it to nrf52 later
2022-02-02T16:10:27 < zyp> I'm mostly working the non-nrf projects :p
2022-02-02T16:14:10 < karlp> so I just needed https://www.tutorialworks.com/podman-rootless-volumes/ which comes down to "add :Z to the volume definiton"
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2022-02-02T16:16:04 < karlp> man, this thing went to the effort of apt installing gcc arm stuff, 
2022-02-02T16:16:19 < karlp> then promptly goes and downloads tarballs of them again
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2022-02-02T16:29:27 < bitmask> good morning
2022-02-02T16:47:53 < benishor> hey bitmask
2022-02-02T16:48:05 < bitmask> hows it going
2022-02-02T16:48:12 < benishor> good. sort of
2022-02-02T16:48:30 < benishor> I don't know what I did but my stm32 performs only when I press reset after powering it up
2022-02-02T16:49:42 < benishor> nevermind, it was a missing oled init delay
2022-02-02T16:50:04 < bitmask> glad I could help!
2022-02-02T16:50:06 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask, how's the day?
2022-02-02T16:50:23 < bitmask> good so far, still waking up before I start coding
2022-02-02T16:50:30 < bitmask> hows about yourself?
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2022-02-02T17:07:52 < bitmask> I'm not a huge fan of this guy but he does have some interesting stuff: https://youtu.be/byUo4EagXu0
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2022-02-02T17:34:50 < kakium69> cancel
2022-02-02T17:35:34 < bitmask> I wonder how many times life was created before it could reproduce...
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2022-02-02T17:36:21 < kakium69> bitmask: deep
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2022-02-02T17:44:13 < kakium69> multicell life happened in just the right time
2022-02-02T17:44:49 < bitmask> why do you say that
2022-02-02T17:45:34 < kakium69> there is time windows
2022-02-02T17:47:14 < kakium69> just a narrow time window for multicell life to appear
2022-02-02T17:47:20 < kakium69> and it did
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2022-02-02T17:47:47 < benishor> just did a blinky in clion with cubemx
2022-02-02T17:48:01 < benishor> omg how awesome is clion compared to cubeide
2022-02-02T17:48:41 < Steffanx> Did you pay for it mr benishor ?
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2022-02-02T17:48:57 < benishor> Steffanx: yes, for the last 5 years. got a toolbox subscription
2022-02-02T17:48:57 < kakium69> what is clion
2022-02-02T17:49:10 < Steffanx> Some code editor
2022-02-02T17:49:10 < benishor> kakium69: just the most awesome c/c++ ide
2022-02-02T17:49:12 < kakium69> yet another thingy thing
2022-02-02T17:50:27 < kakium69> in 2022 I finally have enough power in my confuser to run eclipse smoothly
2022-02-02T17:50:48 < Steffanx> Eclipse.
2022-02-02T17:56:05 < benishor> clion is some order of magnitude faster than eclipse
2022-02-02T17:56:17 < benishor> not to mention the beauty of jetbrains' intellisense
2022-02-02T17:56:25 < benishor> it's as if it knows what's in your mind when writing
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2022-02-02T18:04:11 < kakium69> zyp: did I understand correctly if I use constexpr in constructor the constructor is never called but instead values are set in startup?
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2022-02-02T18:06:09 < jpa-> depends on where the object is allocated, but yeah, you can use constexpr to initialize objects that reside entirely in ROM
2022-02-02T18:08:43 < kakium69> how about if I pass &PORTA as parameter to constructor is it fine?
2022-02-02T18:08:56 < kakium69> in avr8 world
2022-02-02T18:09:42 < kakium69> jpa-: and it doesn't do it automatically if I omit constexpr?
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2022-02-02T18:12:25 < jpa-> it may do it, depending on optimization level, but i think usually compilers don't go very deep down the path of "can i do this at compile time"
2022-02-02T18:14:04 < jpa-> also for some stupid reasons, constexpr constructors are more limited than constexpr functions until C++20 or something
2022-02-02T18:14:45 < jpa-> so with earlier versions   constexpr Foo make_foo() { ... }    constexpr Foo foo = make_foo();  may work while the same code in Foo constructor doesn't
2022-02-02T18:16:05 < kakium69> yes I read about it
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2022-02-02T18:17:50 < Guest96> if you ever tread on my or my wifes son ever again I will refuse to buy your products
2022-02-02T18:20:00 < qyx> wat
2022-02-02T18:20:49 < Xogium> the hell
2022-02-02T18:21:04 < Xogium> qyx: see ? I completed your sentence
2022-02-02T18:28:51 < kakium69> Guest96: ?
2022-02-02T18:32:16 < jpa-> Guest96: you can't buy stm32 now anyway
2022-02-02T18:32:30 < jpa-> but i can understand that cube may be giving you trouble, it has some sharp corners
2022-02-02T18:33:09 < jpa-> we are not official ST representatives, we are the peer support group for people traumatized by stm32
2022-02-02T18:36:00 < Xogium> I like st anyway. I can't say for mcu but for their first mpu, I think they did fairly good
2022-02-02T18:37:21 < ventYl> wadda wadda
2022-02-02T18:37:38 < ventYl> today I had a call with one of teachers on my university
2022-02-02T18:37:50 < ventYl> I ended up with offer to make a lecture on how cool RPi Pico is
2022-02-02T18:38:05 < kakium69> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/815dbaae/ is this how I should proceed with legacy avr8 gpiopin? or should I do nested class thing like in zyps code? idea of nesting there is that gpio port pointers are stored only once?
2022-02-02T18:39:03 < PaulFertser> ventYl: will you be using the word "broadcrap" in that lecture? ;)
2022-02-02T18:39:08 < Xogium> ventYl: huh huh. Is is it really ? Cool, that is
2022-02-02T18:39:41 < Xogium> PaulFertser: wait do they use broadcrap hardware still ? I thought they had made their own chip
2022-02-02T18:40:13 < jpa-> kakium69: can you even store avr8 io register pointers as uint8_t*?
2022-02-02T18:41:13 < jpa-> hmm, looks like you can, with modern avr-gcc
2022-02-02T18:41:13 < ventYl> PaulFertser: RPi Pico isn't using broadcom silicon, is it?
2022-02-02T18:41:36 < jpa-> kakium69: you could just store the 8-bit IO address though
2022-02-02T18:41:45 < jpa-> look into sfr_defs.h
2022-02-02T18:42:22 < kakium69> I know those ports are in low address numbers
2022-02-02T18:42:26 < ventYl> Xogium: kinda is. I will use that opportunity to perform a bit of Arduino shaming
2022-02-02T18:42:57 < ventYl> like, it is probably as close as you can get to real embedded development using DIY-class consumer HW as possible
2022-02-02T18:43:10 < PaulFertser> ventYl: hm, I was sure Broadcom designed it for them. Do you know who was behind all the ASIC work there if not them?
2022-02-02T18:43:32 < kakium69> jpa-: why I couldn't store in uint8_t *?
2022-02-02T18:43:47 < jpa-> well, it is a volatile uint8_t* to begin with
2022-02-02T18:44:01 < jpa-> and IIRC it is accessed with different instruction than RAM is - though maybe i remember wrong
2022-02-02T18:44:11 < kakium69> oh
2022-02-02T18:44:29 < kakium69> never had any problem
2022-02-02T18:44:58 < jpa-> yeah, avr-gcc nowadays does a lot of magic transparently - sometimes that results in overhead though
2022-02-02T18:45:48 < ventYl> PaulFertser: if that lecture makes at least one individual to go away from Arduino, then I don't even care that it was made by broadcom
2022-02-02T18:46:05 < Xogium> fair point
2022-02-02T18:46:34 < PaulFertser> ventYl: :)
2022-02-02T18:48:39 < Xogium> but to be honest arduino didn't make much sense to me… I mean
2022-02-02T18:49:11 < Xogium> I don't understand why people thinks it's easy to get started when you've never coded either way, you still have to write some code
2022-02-02T18:49:29 < Xogium> so how's that different from other mcu doing things with rtos or bare metal ?
2022-02-02T18:49:51 < jpa-> kakium69: ah no, i remembered wrong - AVR has the registers both memory mapped and available with "out" instruction
2022-02-02T18:50:19 < kakium69> did you confuse it with something else?
2022-02-02T18:50:29 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/WMh747Gcc   much shorter with in/out
2022-02-02T18:50:48 < jpa-> and also if you cast away the volatile, some of your GPIO writes get optimized away
2022-02-02T18:51:39 < jpa-> if i were doing that for AVR, i would make the class a template and have the GPIO port and pin as template arguments, to get it to use the efficient "out" format instead of using memory mapping and 16-bit pointers
2022-02-02T18:52:06 < jpa-> something like   https://www.tablix.org/~avian/blog/archives/2019/10/specializing_c_templates_on_avr_pins/
2022-02-02T18:53:27 < kakium69> ah.. internets
2022-02-02T18:53:48 < kakium69> I should have just googled a thing people have done thousands times before
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2022-02-02T19:11:44 < Steffanx> Who released Guest96 aka Laurenceb?
2022-02-02T19:12:03 < Guest96> lol I'm busted
2022-02-02T19:12:09 -!- Guest96 is now known as Laurenceb
2022-02-02T19:12:11 < Steffanx> bitmask: you now understand why I called you Laurenceb?
2022-02-02T19:12:35 < Steffanx> Join; Post some shit. > Laurenceb  
2022-02-02T19:12:39 < bitmask> heh
2022-02-02T19:13:06 < jpa-> huh, are we so unpopular now that Laurenceb is the only one who even bothers to troll this channel?
2022-02-02T19:13:18 < Laurenceb> https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--FgbvDyhX--/t_Preview/b_rgb:ffffff,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1486251282/production/designs/1181836_1.jpg
2022-02-02T19:14:03 < Steffanx> jpa-: it's because zypsnips still points to freenode 
2022-02-02T19:21:09 < ventYl> Xogium: arduino originally wasn't intended for programming audience. it had to be used as a Q&D tool for adding motion to art and help people to learn (embedded) programming
2022-02-02T19:21:22 < ventYl> but then it got wrong and people got stuck in arduino ecosystem
2022-02-02T19:21:38 < ventYl> which is wrong, because arduino becomes useless the moment, you learn it
2022-02-02T19:22:21 < Xogium> hmm well I mean you might as well learn another programming language right from the start, right ?
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2022-02-02T19:35:11 < kakium69> interestings how best course of action is do a template that does per pin functions like you would do in plain C
2022-02-02T19:35:36 < kakium69> and it results in smallest ROM and RAM use
2022-02-02T19:36:14 < jpa-> when the code you want to generate is literally only a single instruction to start with, no matter how many templates you add, it will not get smaller
2022-02-02T19:43:20 < kakium69> Sadly, this does not work. Behind the scenes, PORTB is a macro that casts a constant integer to the PORT_t struct via a pointer:
2022-02-02T19:43:37 < kakium69> #define PORTB    (*(PORT_t *) 0x0620)
2022-02-02T19:43:53 < kakium69> this must be for non-legacy AVR
2022-02-02T19:57:06 < jpa-> what is legacy AVR and what is non-legacy?
2022-02-02T19:57:40 < jpa-> but i don't see how that's gonna stop you
2022-02-02T19:57:45 < kakium69> it wont
2022-02-02T19:57:47 < jpa-> just do &PORTB as usual
2022-02-02T19:58:23 < kakium69> idk if the difference is only in io?.h
2022-02-02T19:58:29 < kakium69> use on PORT_t
2022-02-02T19:58:43 < kakium69> *of
2022-02-02T19:59:04 < ventYl> is there any non-legacy AVR?
2022-02-02T19:59:59 < kakium69> new xmegas
2022-02-02T20:00:14 < ventYl> what is non-legacy on them?
2022-02-02T20:01:20 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATtiny_microcontroller_comparison_chart
2022-02-02T20:01:53 < kakium69> debug interface, core, peripherals, header files
2022-02-02T20:02:46 < jpa-> are xmegas now attinys or why did you paste attiny chart?
2022-02-02T20:03:09 < kakium69> some attinys are xmegas
2022-02-02T20:03:19 < kakium69> oh it's tinys only chart
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2022-02-02T20:04:57 < kakium69> avrmegas are all avr? cores
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2022-02-02T20:08:07 < ventYl> probably yes
2022-02-02T20:08:18 < ventYl> well, it is still 8-bit MCU with tiny RAM
2022-02-02T20:08:29 < ventYl> and core with barely any features
2022-02-02T20:08:38 < ventYl> so even the newest avr will be legacy
2022-02-02T20:08:44 < ventYl> moreover, it's current owner hates it
2022-02-02T20:09:38 < jpa-> does it?
2022-02-02T20:09:52 < jpa-> some of the new attinys have gotten pretty nice analog peripherals
2022-02-02T20:10:24 < jpa-> i actually planned to use attiny424 for one project, but didn't get around to it
2022-02-02T20:11:12 < kakium69> if you see iotn212.h or so you can see difference
2022-02-02T20:12:16 < ventYl> jpa-: because STMs are out of stock? :)
2022-02-02T20:12:40 < jpa-> ventYl: because it is small, cheap, simple and has pretty good analog capabilities
2022-02-02T20:13:14 < jpa-> it's mostly out of stock also, because what isn't
2022-02-02T20:13:29 < ventYl> jpa-: newer ATtinys aren't really that tiny
2022-02-02T20:13:44 < ventYl> very few of them are available in 8- or even 14- pin packages
2022-02-02T20:14:07 < ventYl> my impression was, that new attinys are not really tinys and new atmegas are not really that mega
2022-02-02T20:14:40 < ventYl> because yeah, something like oldschool attiny45 which can run at 20MHz is pretty cool
2022-02-02T20:14:49 < qyx> meh G0/L0, no avr anymore
2022-02-02T20:15:13 < qyx> and G0 in SOIC8 is still available
2022-02-02T20:16:04 < ventYl> does ESP32 have any debugging abilities?
2022-02-02T20:16:17 < ventYl> or is it just a very fat ancient AVR?
2022-02-02T20:16:42 < kakium69> ventYl: QFN20?
2022-02-02T20:16:46 < jpa-> it has jtag
2022-02-02T20:17:22 < kakium69> what is problem of using QFN.. way smaller than so8
2022-02-02T20:17:22 < octorian> Okay, just got two boards up and running (assembled them yesterday) and loaded some test firmware.  Both of them are reporting the exact same unique ID!
2022-02-02T20:17:46 < jpa-> octorian: how are you reading the unique id? pastebin the code
2022-02-02T20:17:51 < qyx> are they chink cloned f103?
2022-02-02T20:18:03 < jpa-> did you buy your chips from Mangy_Dog?
2022-02-02T20:18:32 < Mangy_Dog> >.>
2022-02-02T20:19:15 < Mangy_Dog> i deny everything
2022-02-02T20:19:17 < octorian> jpa-, I tried reading the UID address from the datasheet directly using STM32CubeProgrammer and got the same results (albeit in a different byte order).
2022-02-02T20:19:47 < jpa-> .. so different answers?
2022-02-02T20:19:56 < jpa-> 010203 is not same as 030201
2022-02-02T20:20:04 < octorian> jpa-, Chips are from the same tray of parts, a fresh batch of STM32L072KZT6 MCUs ordered from Mouser.
2022-02-02T20:20:15 < jpa-> the unique id is the chip coordinates on the wafer
2022-02-02T20:20:19 < Mangy_Dog> if theyre from mouser
2022-02-02T20:20:22 < Mangy_Dog> theyre not clones
2022-02-02T20:20:34 < jpa-> so you might very well have same wafer id and just a different row and column coordinates
2022-02-02T20:20:37 < Mangy_Dog> unless stm32 are dishing out clones from there own distributers
2022-02-02T20:20:50 < octorian> There's a good chance they're from the same wafer.
2022-02-02T20:21:16 < octorian> I read both with my code and with STM32CubeProgrammer.
2022-02-02T20:21:33 < jpa-> so, what are the values you got?
2022-02-02T20:22:04 < octorian> STM32CubeProgrammer spits out "10473132 33323934 00000011" for both.
2022-02-02T20:22:11 < octorian> My code spits out "323147103439323311000000" for both.
2022-02-02T20:22:28 < octorian> Same values in different byte order.
2022-02-02T20:22:38 < octorian> Just an artifact of how its being printed.
2022-02-02T20:23:11 < qyx> are they hex?
2022-02-02T20:23:25 < jpa-> they are ascii, usually
2022-02-02T20:23:42 < octorian> Those numbers are hex.
2022-02-02T20:23:47 < jpa-> but yeah, looks like quite typical ST unique id, weird that you would have a duplicate
2022-02-02T20:24:10 < jpa-> have you checked them carefully, the difference may be only in single digit?
2022-02-02T20:25:15 < octorian> Yes. I'm pasting them into a text editor that highlights matching contents. Stop blaming this on "you're reading the numbers wrong"
2022-02-02T20:25:37 < qyx> do you have more chips?
2022-02-02T20:25:52 < jpa-> if you don't want us to check the things *you* might have done wrong, what do you want us to do? blame ST with you?
2022-02-02T20:26:18 < octorian> My last two prototypes used a different STM32L072 variant, and the Unique ID numbers were different.
2022-02-02T20:26:27 < octorian> (from each othr)
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2022-02-02T20:28:06 < jpa-> octorian: are you reading them at offsets 0x00, 0x04 and 0x14?
2022-02-02T20:28:22 < qyx> https://false.ekta.is/2013/09/stm32-unique-id-register-not-so-unique/
2022-02-02T20:28:24 < qyx> lol karlp 
2022-02-02T20:28:32 < jpa-> because a very common mistake of "reading the numbers wrong" is reading at 0x00, 0x04 and 0x08 like would be logical to people outside ST
2022-02-02T20:28:45 < qyx> UPDATE: This post is WRONG! See updated information here
2022-02-02T20:29:01 < qyx> However, I had foolishly assumed that on the L1 the Unique ID register was three contiguous 32 bit registers, as it is on the F0, F1, F2, F3 and F4. (The base address changes, but that’s normal and expected)
2022-02-02T20:29:05 < qyx> haha
2022-02-02T20:30:03 < qyx> octorian: can you confirm? ^
2022-02-02T20:30:29 < octorian> Interesting....  That's probably the issue. So easy to miss something like that.
2022-02-02T20:31:55 < karlp> qyx: yes.... I are smrat...
2022-02-02T20:32:06 < Steffanx> Smrat :)
2022-02-02T20:32:16 < qyx> smrat?
2022-02-02T20:32:17 < karlp> I had to type that carefully to get it like that :)
2022-02-02T20:32:34 < jpa-> smrats are nice pets
2022-02-02T20:33:17 < jpa-> hmm, smrat is apparently "secured moonrat token".. everything is a cryptocurrency now
2022-02-02T20:33:42 < qyx> smrad is smell
2022-02-02T20:34:33  * karlp installed 50MB of perl again.
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2022-02-02T20:35:00 < karlp> I love taking a break frrom embedded means headbashing on linux instead of headbashing on st ref mans...
2022-02-02T20:35:31 < qyx> have you also timemachined to 2010?
2022-02-02T20:35:58 < karlp> no, buildroot.
2022-02-02T20:36:15 < karlp> it might involve perl but it doesn't require docker or root or vagrant or ubuntu
2022-02-02T20:36:36 < qyx> earlier today I was about to ask why the hell the docker part
2022-02-02T20:36:52 < karlp> trying to do an armbian build 
2022-02-02T20:37:33 < karlp> think it's probably easier to spin up ubuntu 20 something on libvirt and pretend to be "native" tahn all the hoops they have for vagrant and docker.
2022-02-02T20:37:49 < octorian> Can't believe I never realized the 3 words of the Unique ID aren't contiguous. Sorry.
2022-02-02T20:37:57 < karlp> octorian: yeah, join the party ;)
2022-02-02T20:37:58 < octorian> I wonder if other variants don't have this oddness.
2022-02-02T20:38:05 < karlp> no, it's a soup on all the parts
2022-02-02T20:38:19 < sauce> karlp: highly recommend archlinuxarm
2022-02-02T20:38:21 < karlp> even within the same family different densities put some of the registers at different places too
2022-02-02T20:38:43 < karlp> sauce: I've never used arch anywhere, I'm not going to start now.... sorry
2022-02-02T20:38:58 < sauce> you can easily construct a rootfs across architectures using its standard tooling
2022-02-02T20:39:04 < karlp> I've used buildroot and openwrt, and I've _used_ armbian
2022-02-02T20:39:09 < octorian> I guess I've never used two parts from the same wafer before, so I never noticed.
2022-02-02T20:39:24 < karlp> I just wanted to try and make my own armbian, and unlike buildroot/openwrt, wher eyou just ... do that.  armbian makes it complicated
2022-02-02T20:39:30 < qyx> you can do that on all debian based distros too
2022-02-02T20:40:04 < ventYl> karlp: I wouldn't bash arch straight away. I got it on my ARM notebook and it is... well, fairly good. less hostile than anything debian
2022-02-02T20:40:04 < karlp> look, buildroot is already running happily, I just hadn't run it on this installation of my desktop before, so I had ot install a bunch of perl :)
2022-02-02T20:40:32 < karlp> ventYl: oh, I'm no debian fan boi, don't worry.
2022-02-02T20:40:45 < qyx> fuk you two, debian ftw
2022-02-02T20:41:00 < karlp> but if I'm giving a linux environment to customers to run their own apps in, it's going to be ubuntu based, 
2022-02-02T20:41:40 < ventYl> we went harcode, we shipped custom build gentoo image :>
2022-02-02T20:41:49 < ventYl> s/build/built/
2022-02-02T20:42:31 < karlp> I may even just hve openwrt running an ubuntu container for "users" ....
2022-02-02T20:42:47 < karlp> so I can keep my existing web ui and shit from openwrt, but... that's getting crazy
2022-02-02T20:44:30 < sauce> it does sound like a viable use case for lxc or docker
2022-02-02T20:44:47 < karlp> well, that's _after_ I build my image...
2022-02-02T20:45:24 < karlp> right now I just wanted to rebuild a tweaked armbian to test a bit more, but... pain.  so I'm just doing a plain buildroot to test out instead.
2022-02-02T20:46:13 < karlp> nice. buidlroot is checking out the entire linux history from my local fork.
2022-02-02T20:46:23 < karlp> I love how that works.. disk space is cheap though right..
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2022-02-02T20:52:42 < qyx> hm LT3652 is actually still in stock
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2022-02-02T20:52:51 < qyx> the biggest trash is avaialble
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2022-02-02T22:13:32 < benishor> what's annoying with clion+stm32 is that the build flags they use generate much larger code size than cubeide
2022-02-02T22:13:49 < benishor> and here I am, hunting them down like a slave one by one
2022-02-02T22:32:45 < catphish> i don't think you're allowed to use the phrase "hunting them down like a slave one by one"
2022-02-02T22:36:05 < Steffanx> Why not? It's perhaps an accurate historical activity..
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2022-02-02T22:51:46 < bitmask> hah hmm I need to work on my UI skills https://i.imgur.com/nr7P055.png
2022-02-02T22:52:07 < kakium69> nice
2022-02-02T22:52:09 < kakium69> vulkan?
2022-02-02T22:52:16 < bitmask> yup
2022-02-02T22:52:49 < kakium69> firefox 4GB brb>
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2022-02-02T22:57:12 < karlp> benishor: so, IMO, you should hve your command line build, and the IDe should import that
2022-02-02T22:57:22 < karlp> having to chase settings around different guis is a disaster IMO
2022-02-02T23:00:01 < catphish> bitmask: nice dog
2022-02-02T23:00:27 < bitmask> hope you dont think I modeled it hah
2022-02-02T23:00:38 < catphish> i've been playing with godot recently
2022-02-02T23:00:57 < catphish> it's so easy to make interactive 3d stuff in it
2022-02-02T23:01:08 < catphish> no vulkan though :)
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2022-02-02T23:26:30 < catphish> ugh, why can't we have universal basic income, the UK recently introduced "universal credit", it's not universal at all, in order to get it you have to commit to looking for paid work or increasing your income
2022-02-02T23:41:16 < josuah> catphish: I am currently in this dilemna
2022-02-02T23:41:37 < josuah> I am not looking for a job *now*, I want to be able to handle GPIO of an STM32 before going to embedded job market
2022-02-02T23:41:50 < josuah> that sounds reasonable to me, but doing so is delaying the moment where I "actively look for a job"
2022-02-02T23:42:16 < josuah> so this disqualifies me for the grants
2022-02-02T23:42:34 < josuah> on my case, it is fine, I have savings to cover a whole year, not the case of everyone though
2022-02-02T23:43:00 < josuah> oh, yeah, I'm lame, I am stuck at even the mere GPIO handling of a GD32 :P
2022-02-02T23:44:19 < Xogium> I'm bad at handling gpio too :p not for the same reason, but heh
2022-02-02T23:44:30  * josuah hopes he does not waste its luck
2022-02-02T23:44:42 < Xogium> the only gpio I can handle are the ones on my stm32mp157f-dk2 board
2022-02-02T23:45:58 < Xogium> but even then I need visual help to figure the pinout of whatever I want to attach still, even if I can then attach it fine on my own
2022-02-02T23:50:27 < catphish> josuah: training is acceptable, you basically have to persuade a moronic government official that your learning is actually going to get you a job :)
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2022-02-02T23:53:13 < Laurenceb> arggg
2022-02-02T23:53:39 < Laurenceb> irl train guys want an MVB interface on muh control module
2022-02-02T23:53:52 < Laurenceb> horrible https://www.daube.ch/ddd/files/mvb_kit_c2.pdf
2022-02-02T23:56:05 < Steffanx> Didn't you sell your company etc. ? Do you even need this income catphish ?
2022-02-02T23:56:29 < Laurenceb> I think this can be done with advanced control timers and spi....
2022-02-02T23:56:56 < Laurenceb> I wonder if 10/100 ethernet transformers would break it
2022-02-02T23:57:39 < catphish> Steffanx: i don't, but not working has made me realise how much other people could benefit from this
2022-02-02T23:58:20 < Laurenceb> inb4 "hundreds dead in train crash"
2022-02-02T23:58:47 < Laurenceb> main traction controllers are on the same bus...
--- Day changed Thu Feb 03 2022
2022-02-03T00:00:15 < Laurenceb> I'll probably put it onto ethernet tbh, but tempted to haxor MVB
2022-02-03T00:11:27 < josuah> catphish: thanks :]
2022-02-03T00:23:56 < catphish> josuah: good luck anyway!
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2022-02-03T00:44:53 < karlp> well, buildroot happily works, as expected.
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2022-02-03T01:07:42 < karlp> annnnd armbian finally finished and doesn't boot. yay.
2022-02-03T01:07:48 < karlp> ok, killing people time.
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2022-02-03T10:53:18 < benishor> lol, cubeide's embedded gcc (9-2020-q2-update.linux64_2.0.0.202105311346) produces smaller size code with the same flags than the latest 10.3-2021.10
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2022-02-03T10:56:55 < zyp> have you told it to optimize for size or optimize for speed though? smaller code isn't necessarily faster
2022-02-03T10:59:20 < benishor> "same flags" ^
2022-02-03T10:59:32 < benishor> -Os for both
2022-02-03T11:00:47 < zyp> okay
2022-02-03T11:00:54 < zyp> how much smaller are we talking?
2022-02-03T11:01:06 < zyp> as in, what's the before/after numbers?
2022-02-03T11:01:23 < ventYl> zyp: I've seen that too
2022-02-03T11:01:46 < ventYl> Rpi2020 ROM bootloader is compiled with something like 9-2020 and fits into 16kB region
2022-02-03T11:02:08 < ventYl> I tried to compile it with 2021.10 and it was larger by several dozens of bytes
2022-02-03T11:02:47 < jpa-> by less than a percent? heh, yeah, i wouldn't be surprised
2022-02-03T11:03:05 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-03T11:03:38 < zyp> sucks if you're right up at the limit or something
2022-02-03T11:03:53 < zyp> but I find speed generally matters more than size
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2022-02-03T11:04:02 < jpa-> happens with fpga tools all the time, optimize until you pass timing, upgrade, no longer passes timing
2022-02-03T11:04:18 < benishor> actually my test was flawed. new one produced smaller sized code. 34576 (gcc 10.3-2021.10) vs 35196 (gcc 9-2020-q2-update.linux64_2.0.0.202105311346)
2022-02-03T11:05:19 < benishor> vs 38120 (gcc 9.2.1 20191025)
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2022-02-03T11:07:33 < Steffanx> But does it actually run? ;)
2022-02-03T11:07:45 < ventYl> yeah, rpi2040 bootloader is just a few bytes under the limit
2022-02-03T11:08:39 < ventYl> what is even worse, need to compile it is.. well, ill
2022-02-03T11:10:07 < benishor> Steffanx: it does. surprisingly :)
2022-02-03T11:10:39 < benishor> default clion flags gave me 110K :D
2022-02-03T11:10:56 < benishor> which naturally wouldn't fit my poor 64k flash
2022-02-03T11:27:11 < ventYl> that's no surprise
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2022-02-03T14:01:38 < Steffanx> It's not that hard to find out the difference in flags. It's not that the cube uses 30000 flags
2022-02-03T14:08:17 < benishor> is there an easy way to find out how much ram is available at runtime?
2022-02-03T14:09:26 < benishor> Steffanx: done that part and now I'm happily using clion and openocd + orbcat
2022-02-03T14:09:34 < jpa-> you can fill your RAM with 0xdeadbeef and count how many words remain that
2022-02-03T14:09:51 < benishor> jpa-: nice trick
2022-02-03T14:11:25 < Steffanx> Or keep track of the stack pointer? The other wham use should be rather static right? Unless you use heap and dynamic mem allocation 
2022-02-03T14:12:32 < qyx> if you use heap it is even easier
2022-02-03T14:13:44 < ventYl> if you use heap, you are straight fucked up
2022-02-03T14:13:50 < karlp> lol
2022-02-03T14:14:00 < karlp> go eat your misra lunch auto dweeb
2022-02-03T14:18:27  * ventYl nom nom
2022-02-03T14:21:39 < jpa-> Steffanx: how do you keep track of the stack pointer? especially the maximum stack usage is difficult to find out without memory filling
2022-02-03T14:26:22 < mawk> what do you mean jpa- 
2022-02-03T14:26:24 < mawk> it's in a register
2022-02-03T14:27:41 < jpa-> mawk: and it changes on every function call
2022-02-03T14:27:53 < mawk> yes
2022-02-03T14:28:09 < jpa-> so how would reading the register tell you what is the maximum stack usage, it only tells the current usage
2022-02-03T14:28:10 < Steffanx> Sample it periodically to get some estimation. 
2022-02-03T14:28:23 < Steffanx> Perhaps with external tools. 
2022-02-03T14:28:30 < karlp> painting ram is wayyyy easier...
2022-02-03T14:28:31 < Steffanx> It's still runtime 😋
2022-02-03T14:28:52 < karlp> paint once in reset handler, scan whenever you feel like, either from app or from debugger.
2022-02-03T14:28:55 < ventYl> jpa-: you can get rough idea by using gcc instrumentation. then recording lowest value of stack frame address
2022-02-03T14:28:56 < qyx> compile time computation is not precise?
2022-02-03T14:29:00 < jpa-> sounds pretty complex to get right, especially as the maximum usage could be something like temporary buffer that is used only for short time
2022-02-03T14:29:22 < Steffanx> Yeah, that what I would try first qyx
2022-02-03T14:29:59 < jpa-> one way is also to put your stack at beginning of ram instead of end, and lower the allocated size until it crashes
2022-02-03T14:30:04 < Steffanx> The deadbeef magic is also just a maximum. Unless you do the trick periodically as well.
2022-02-03T14:30:20 < jpa-> it is exactly a maximum, what else would you want to know?
2022-02-03T14:30:32 < benishor> the maximum should do
2022-02-03T14:30:51 < benishor> in order to get a feeling of how much more you can spend at runtime
2022-02-03T14:31:09 < qyx> try gcc first
2022-02-03T14:31:16 < Steffanx> Then your tooling should be able to tell it..
2022-02-03T14:31:17 < qyx> you may not catch your maximum during runtime
2022-02-03T14:31:28 < qyx> unless you have full test suite
2022-02-03T14:31:52 < jpa-> that's true also
2022-02-03T14:32:23 < benishor> indeed
2022-02-03T14:32:31 < jpa-> does gcc do call tree analysis yet, or is it still just per-function?
2022-02-03T14:32:39 < Steffanx> Idk why you would want that jpa-   but people have reasons sometimes 
2022-02-03T14:33:25 < jpa-> i usually call people out on their weird nonsense reasons to do stupid things, instead of enabling them ;)
2022-02-03T14:33:51 < mawk> [13:32:32] <jpa-> does gcc do call tree analysis yet, or is it still just per-function?
2022-02-03T14:33:56 < mawk> with LTO it probably does it globally
2022-02-03T14:34:55 < Steffanx> Naaah jpa-  . If people ask for a hammer I give them a hammer, even if they want to cut down  a tree 
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2022-02-03T14:43:33 < catphish> i'm with Steffanx, too many people on IRC try to second guess people's motivations instead of answering their questions
2022-02-03T14:44:25 < Steffanx> Haha, I'm not. I like to know people's motivation usually, the  2nd guess
2022-02-03T14:44:31 < Steffanx> Then.
2022-02-03T14:45:59 < Steffanx> But the worst is when people ask a question, get an answer and then  start to update the requirements with each answer they get 
2022-02-03T14:46:03 < zyp> why not both
2022-02-03T14:46:36 < zyp> I like weird nonsense, but I also like proper solutions
2022-02-03T14:47:55 < jpa-> i just want to assume everyone else it stupid, and then prove myself right
2022-02-03T14:48:51 < Steffanx> You assume everyone else is stupid?
2022-02-03T14:49:03 < jpa-> i want to
2022-02-03T14:49:16 < jpa-> some people are too smart, but fortunately there are plenty of idiots on the net
2022-02-03T14:49:35 < Steffanx> I know, I'm sorry.
2022-02-03T14:49:58 < jpa-> Steffanx: sorry, i didn't mean you!
2022-02-03T14:50:25 < Steffanx> 🙋🏻‍♂️ idiot
2022-02-03T14:50:29 < Steffanx> Hah
2022-02-03T14:52:33 < jadew> https://nypost.com/2022/02/01/mom-opens-up-about-being-virtually-gang-raped-in-metaverse/
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2022-02-03T14:53:06 < Steffanx> Hi jadencb  
2022-02-03T14:53:12 < jadew> haha
2022-02-03T14:54:00 < jadew> btw, facebook is down 22%
2022-02-03T14:54:00 < Steffanx> + an "e" somewhere 
2022-02-03T14:54:40 < jadew> apple made a privacy change that screws with their tracking and it shaves off 30
2022-02-03T14:54:50 < jadew> 30% of their yearly revenue
2022-02-03T14:55:42 < jadew> which, if true, should make it drop harder
2022-02-03T14:55:53 < Steffanx> Facebook is dead anyway. 
2022-02-03T14:56:00 < jadew> yeah
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2022-02-03T14:56:26 < jadew> they were poorly run anyway
2022-02-03T14:56:41 < Steffanx> I'm not into it, but the 14 year old intern for a week here said no one of his age used Facebook (not in his class at least)
2022-02-03T14:56:55 < Steffanx> If you say you have Facebook they laugh at you.
2022-02-03T14:57:05 < Steffanx> I believed him.
2022-02-03T14:57:05 < jadew> blocking advertisers left and right with AI bots that misinterpreted the ads
2022-02-03T14:57:14 < jadew> no way to appeal or contact support
2022-02-03T14:57:33 < jadew> yeah, I heard that too
2022-02-03T14:57:45 < jadew> Facebook is for millenials 
2022-02-03T14:58:06 < jadew> gen whatever-the-fuck they are, are into even more retarded shit
2022-02-03T14:58:14 < karlp> you hve 14yo interns?
2022-02-03T14:58:41 < jpa-> i thought facebook is for my mom's generation
2022-02-03T14:58:55 < zyp> work experience week in middle school?
2022-02-03T14:58:57 < Steffanx> Karlp: It's not really an intern, it just a someone who walks around for a while to see what people do here.
2022-02-03T14:59:05 < zyp> we had that
2022-02-03T14:59:14 < jadew> that's pretty cool
2022-02-03T14:59:35 < jpa-> training to be leader for north korea - solid experience in looking at people do thing
2022-02-03T14:59:53 < zyp> haha
2022-02-03T15:01:37 < Steffanx> Your optimism is great jpa-  
2022-02-03T15:02:07 < Steffanx> A true sunshine 🌞  in all the ##stm32 darkness 
2022-02-03T15:02:30 < jpa-> no problem
2022-02-03T15:07:27 < Steffanx> :)
2022-02-03T15:13:48 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzuEq4dMG4M
2022-02-03T15:14:00 < qyx> I did that too when I was 14y old
2022-02-03T15:14:09 < qyx> with land surveyors
2022-02-03T15:21:58  * qyx pulled out an induction stove
2022-02-03T15:22:19 < qyx> sun is shining, slowly approaching 30 kWh net energy gain today
2022-02-03T15:22:57 < qyx> season of the lpg cooktop ends soon
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2022-02-03T15:48:18 < Steffanx> Lol windows  
2022-02-03T15:48:28 < Steffanx> Have some windows share with an upper case name.
2022-02-03T15:49:03 < Steffanx> When you go to the share using an all upper case hostname it will turn it into a lower case folder 
2022-02-03T15:49:38 < Steffanx> When you non-capitals in the hostname will show the share/folder in upper case
2022-02-03T15:49:50 < Steffanx> When you have*
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2022-02-03T22:18:06 < bitmask> \o/
2022-02-03T22:18:45 < Steffanx> Hiyo Rob235. Welcome to ##stm32.
2022-02-03T22:18:55 < bitmask> whats up
2022-02-03T22:19:02 < Steffanx> Not much 
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2022-02-03T23:29:02 < octorian> Does anyone know where (in the official docs) I can find out what the "erased" value of flash memory is supposed to be?
2022-02-03T23:29:42 < octorian> I saw some random online comments indicating its 1 on some parts and 0 on others. Lost in the reference manual for mine trying to figure out the correct answer for my part. 
2022-02-03T23:30:59 < qyx> 0xff is erased except on some exotic parts doing exotic ECC and/or EEPROM emulation
2022-02-03T23:31:09 < qyx> eg. L1 afaik
2022-02-03T23:32:07 < qyx> I would say in the onchip flash memory section in the RM
2022-02-03T23:38:04 < octorian> I'm on an L0, so I suspect I may also have such a part.
2022-02-03T23:38:33 < octorian> Just want to confirm, and if it is in the reference manual its obscured in the middle of some paragraph and not 100% obvious.
2022-02-03T23:38:49 < qyx> but it is easy to check
2022-02-03T23:39:10 < qyx> do chip erase & read using the debugger
2022-02-03T23:40:37 < octorian> Yeah, good idea.  Gonna do it out-of-band with debugger tools.
2022-02-03T23:41:06 < octorian> Yep, all zeros.
2022-02-03T23:41:28 < octorian> This would be my second issue in two days caused by a "most parts do it this way, but yours does it differently".
2022-02-03T23:41:29 < qyx> hm, wtf st
2022-02-03T23:42:05 < octorian> Frankly, I'm surprised it took me this long to catch this specific issue given where in my stack its manifesting.  Unless I was running into it before, but thought it was something else and never dug deep enough to notice.
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--- Day changed Fri Feb 04 2022
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2022-02-04T00:38:56 < zyp> pretty sure L0 is erase to 0 like L1
2022-02-04T00:39:30 < zyp> as you already found…
2022-02-04T00:43:36 < qyx> if I were a flash filesystem developer, I would kill them instantly
2022-02-04T00:43:50 < zyp> haha
2022-02-04T00:44:19 < qyx> another thrilling feature is 64bit wide ECC
2022-02-04T00:44:44 < zyp> I bet it's not as fun as the one in TI RM4
2022-02-04T00:45:12 < qyx> TI is not fun anymore, TI is dead
2022-02-04T00:47:51 < zyp> TI Hercules parts have a jtag access protection thing with a 128-bit key, stored with 64-bit ECC in uneraseable memory
2022-02-04T00:48:36 < zyp> so they've selected a default key that has a valid ECC with as many unwritten bits as possible
2022-02-04T00:49:05 < zyp> except they fucked up
2022-02-04T00:49:16 < Xogium> mm hmm. TI sure isn't fun. Beagle bone black ethernet phy issue, anyone ? Honestly I got one bbb that I've put into storage and never use anymore. TI had years to fix this with a hardware rev, and they didn't so far as I'm concerned
2022-02-04T00:49:42 < zyp> the default key was picked for the big endian hercules parts (TMS570), and they forgot to change it for little endian parts (RM4)
2022-02-04T00:50:14 < zyp> leaving it with less unprogrammed bits in the key ECC
2022-02-04T00:50:30 < Xogium> ... yecch
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2022-02-04T03:13:05 < Laurenceb> argg systemd
2022-02-04T03:13:19 < Laurenceb> it resets system time to the most recent compilation date
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2022-02-04T11:31:03 < karlp> good conversation there...
2022-02-04T11:35:58 < Steffanx> Got some more for us karlp?
2022-02-04T11:40:39 < ventYl> well, enjoy the silence
2022-02-04T11:41:31 < Steffanx> Awh
2022-02-04T11:42:24 < ventYl> I expect that next two hours will be noisy
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2022-02-04T12:39:53 < karlp> yeah, yaml is gross?
2022-02-04T12:40:08 < karlp> I cna't make pyyaml make the yaml style that kicad uses for some footprint generators
2022-02-04T12:40:13 < karlp> ended up using string templating...
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2022-02-04T14:38:57 < karlp> ada is dead, long live rust? https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/adacore-teams-for-safety-critical-rust-toolchain/
2022-02-04T14:40:07 < mawk> don't say that to specing 
2022-02-04T14:45:50 < specing> mawk: old news, we talked about it in #ada three days ago
2022-02-04T14:46:46 < mawk> :(
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2022-02-04T15:39:08 -!- Guest96 [~Guest96@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-04T15:39:23 -!- Guest96 is now known as Laurenceb
2022-02-04T15:39:37  * Laurenceb is trying to break out of NAT using hole punching
2022-02-04T15:40:05 < Laurenceb> sudo stunclient --protocol udp --localport 22 stun.12connect.com
2022-02-04T15:40:06 < Laurenceb> Binding test: success
2022-02-04T15:40:06 < Laurenceb> Local address: 10.104.0.2:22
2022-02-04T15:40:07 < Laurenceb> Mapped address: 185.104.136.20:18190
2022-02-04T15:40:07 < Laurenceb> pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo stunclient --protocol udp --localport 22 stun.12connect.com
2022-02-04T15:40:08 < Laurenceb> Binding test: success
2022-02-04T15:40:08 < Laurenceb> Local address: 10.104.0.2:22
2022-02-04T15:40:08 < Laurenceb> Mapped address: 185.104.136.20:1760
2022-02-04T15:40:10 < Laurenceb> wtf
2022-02-04T15:40:17 < PaulFertser> Glory hole punching
2022-02-04T15:40:44 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-02-04T15:41:10 < Laurenceb> udp packets got put on a different port the second time wtf?
2022-02-04T15:41:28 < PaulFertser> Are you doing those two calls without waiting much in-between?
2022-02-04T15:41:36 < Laurenceb> yeah about 500ms
2022-02-04T15:41:48 < PaulFertser> Probably this NAT you're behind is just too nasty.
2022-02-04T15:42:26 < PaulFertser> I would also suggest to try some other source address just in case, something like 1022.
2022-02-04T15:42:27 < Laurenceb> hmm it seems to cycle between a handful of ports
2022-02-04T15:42:51 -!- System_Error [~SystemErr@user/systemerror] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2022-02-04T15:43:14 < ventYl> not all NAT implementations actually work with hole punching
2022-02-04T15:43:19 < PaulFertser> Yep
2022-02-04T15:43:19 < Laurenceb> yeah about 8 different mapped ports which slowly cycle (after about ten reuses they are dropped)
2022-02-04T15:43:31 < specing> Laurenceb: is it possible that the second stunclient just opened another mapping?
2022-02-04T15:43:46 < specing> can you now use the mapped address mapping to communicate?
2022-02-04T15:43:46 < ventYl> also in case of huge networks, even "reliable" NAT may start reusing outbound ports
2022-02-04T15:44:05 < Laurenceb> specing: well its using udp to same url
2022-02-04T15:44:12 < specing> and?
2022-02-04T15:44:25 < specing> That's just the stun server, no?
2022-02-04T15:44:31 < Laurenceb> how would the NAT know to open another mapping?
2022-02-04T15:44:41 < specing> nat doesen't, stunclient does
2022-02-04T15:44:48 < Laurenceb> ok wut
2022-02-04T15:44:51 < specing> (never used stunclient btw)
2022-02-04T15:44:53 < Laurenceb> I forced the local port
2022-02-04T15:45:08 < Laurenceb>  --localport
2022-02-04T15:45:15 < Laurenceb> to avoid that issue
2022-02-04T15:45:18 < ventYl> is that local inbound, or outbound port?
2022-02-04T15:45:39 < ventYl> oh, probably outbound
2022-02-04T15:45:41 < ventYl> stupid question
2022-02-04T15:45:45 < ventYl> try high port number
2022-02-04T15:45:53 < ventYl> 22 is reserver range, so it may behave weirdly
2022-02-04T15:45:59 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: try --mode full, what does it say?
2022-02-04T15:46:20 < ventYl> I'd try something well above 10k, definitely above 1024
2022-02-04T15:47:15 < PaulFertser> Yes, 1022 wasn't that good of a suggestion, safer bet would be > 1024 just in case.
2022-02-04T15:47:16 < Laurenceb> Behavior test: success
2022-02-04T15:47:16 < Laurenceb> Nat behavior: Address and Port Dependent Mapping
2022-02-04T15:47:17 < Laurenceb> Filtering test: success
2022-02-04T15:47:17 < Laurenceb> Nat filtering: Address and Port Dependent Filtering
2022-02-04T15:47:20 < Laurenceb> thats bad right?
2022-02-04T15:48:11 < PaulFertser> Let me test on my NAT.
2022-02-04T15:48:28 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: where did you get stunclient from?
2022-02-04T15:48:57 < Laurenceb> debian repos
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2022-02-04T15:49:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: it's turnutils_stanclient there?
2022-02-04T15:49:37 < PaulFertser> stun
2022-02-04T15:50:04 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-04T15:50:52 < PaulFertser> It has different options, hm
2022-02-04T15:54:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: stun.12connect.com has many servers, so probably your NAT tracks that and it's indeed depending on destination address.
2022-02-04T15:54:25 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2022-02-04T15:54:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: why are you behind a NAT in the first place? What kind of UDP payload are you going to have there over the clear Internet?
2022-02-04T15:54:58 < Laurenceb> none, I want to see if I can haxor ssh login to my devices
2022-02-04T15:55:09 < Laurenceb> when they are behind NAT
2022-02-04T15:55:30 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: ssh doesn't work over UDP come on
2022-02-04T15:55:44 < PaulFertser> mosh does though
2022-02-04T15:55:51 < Laurenceb> I know, I wanted to try manually hacking udp hole punching to get ssh to run
2022-02-04T15:56:05 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: ssh can't use UDP
2022-02-04T15:56:21 < Laurenceb> I know but I might be able to punch a hole for it
2022-02-04T15:56:26 < Laurenceb> looks unlikely tho
2022-02-04T15:56:27 < PaulFertser> For UDP!
2022-02-04T15:56:34 < BrainDamage> ssh can't use udp, but you can forward tcp packets inside udp
2022-02-04T15:56:35 < PaulFertser> Even if that worked it would be for _UDP_
2022-02-04T15:56:43 < BrainDamage> eg using socat
2022-02-04T15:57:09 < Laurenceb> well atm I cant even ping my desktop with udp from the units...
2022-02-04T15:57:12 < PaulFertser> mosh is nice
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2022-02-04T15:58:09 < BrainDamage> why not just reverse the relation?
2022-02-04T15:58:18 < BrainDamage> have the clients connect to the server
2022-02-04T15:58:31 < PaulFertser> For that a server is needed :)
2022-02-04T15:58:56 < PaulFertser> Yes, with autossh you can have ssh always having a channel to your server and you can have a reverse tunnel via it easily.
2022-02-04T15:59:14 < BrainDamage> well, a server can be his desktop
2022-02-04T15:59:15 < PaulFertser> But why limit yourself to ssh if you can have wireguard VPN?
2022-02-04T15:59:26 < BrainDamage> just have a dynamic dns associated to it
2022-02-04T16:00:16 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: on a "good" NAT device I get: Nat behavior: Endpoint Independent Mapping
2022-02-04T16:00:19 < Laurenceb> ok I've got a script sending udp to my desktop from the pi, but nothing seen.. disabled firewall
2022-02-04T16:01:12 < Laurenceb> Nat behavior: Endpoint Independent Mapping
2022-02-04T16:01:13 < Laurenceb> Filtering test: success
2022-02-04T16:01:13 < Laurenceb> Nat filtering: Address and Port Dependent Filtering
2022-02-04T16:01:18 < Laurenceb> ^at desktop end
2022-02-04T16:01:26 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: yes, that could work for hole punching.
2022-02-04T16:01:27 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-04T16:01:39 < PaulFertser> And of course I get same port each time.
2022-02-04T16:01:47 < Laurenceb> should I try to ping the full 16bit address space from my desktop?
2022-02-04T16:02:01 < PaulFertser> ventYl: OpenWrt consistently gives me port 22 there :)
2022-02-04T16:02:24 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you should try to stop doing whatever you're doing, it's some insanity...
2022-02-04T16:02:33 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-02-04T16:03:01 < Laurenceb> I'll try a script to ping on all 2^15 ports
2022-02-04T16:03:05 < Laurenceb> *2^16
2022-02-04T16:04:31 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: I can't believe you haven't heard about nmap.
2022-02-04T16:04:50 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: I really hope you're not abusing substances.
2022-02-04T16:11:17 < ventYl> :>
2022-02-04T16:11:29 < ventYl> all I can see is Alf
2022-02-04T16:11:46 < Laurenceb> nmap just finds TR-069
2022-02-04T16:11:50 < Laurenceb> thats my router
2022-02-04T16:14:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: if you want your devices to be always accessible, create a VPN for all of them. Use some public-accessible server for that. Wireguard should be easy to setup. What's to discuss here really?
2022-02-04T16:14:36 < PaulFertser> Or you can use OpenVPN if you're more familiar with it.
2022-02-04T16:15:55 < PaulFertser> Or if you only need ssh you can do what BrainDamage suggests, have your devices always run an ssh client to your server. autossh is handy for that. And talk to them via the reverse tunnel.
2022-02-04T16:24:54 < sauce> torn between recommending tinc and not wanting to be on the hook to support it as a result of my recommendation
2022-02-04T16:27:33 < Steffanx> Laurenceb i heard sauce recommends tinc. Try it.
2022-02-04T16:28:27 < BrainDamage> sauce: same reason why I kept quiet about it
2022-02-04T16:28:28 < Steffanx> No worries sauce. Laurenceb will not listen an go his own probably broken way.
2022-02-04T16:28:34 < Steffanx> *and
2022-02-04T16:29:26 < Laurenceb> wait my firwall was actually on, its working now
2022-02-04T16:30:49 < Steffanx> You who wants a firewall these days?
2022-02-04T16:30:54 < Laurenceb> heh
2022-02-04T16:31:02 < Laurenceb> wtf each packet is from a different port
2022-02-04T16:49:41 < Laurenceb> hmm how do I stop netcat from blocking?
2022-02-04T17:17:07 < mawk> PaulFertser: how do I use a stlink as jtag probe using openocd? I can't figure it out
2022-02-04T17:17:18 -!- hiovoltage [~hiovoltag@78.186.68.182] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-02-04T17:17:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: easy answer: not anyhow unless you reflash stlink to jlink or vsllink.
2022-02-04T17:24:28 < Laurenceb> ok got socat running now
2022-02-04T17:24:38 < Laurenceb> no putty wont connect...
2022-02-04T17:26:31 < karlp> lol, ST: "RTC Wakeup timer through EXTI line 20 interrupt" in one document, "RTC wakeup interrupt through EXTI[19]"
2022-02-04T17:26:41 < karlp> so, yes, those are they same, but they sure don't read the same way :)
2022-02-04T17:28:00 < Laurenceb> hmm I need to enable port forwarding in putty...
2022-02-04T17:28:13 < Laurenceb> would help if I knew how local and remote were defined
2022-02-04T17:31:39 < mawk> PaulFertser :(
2022-02-04T17:31:47 < Laurenceb> where the hell did port 5901 come from?? https://phoenixnap.com/kb/ssh-port-forwarding
2022-02-04T17:31:49 < mawk> I tried to reflash a stlink OB to jlink OB but it still doesn't want
2022-02-04T17:31:55 < mawk> it says "Error: Selected transport is not supported by the device."
2022-02-04T17:33:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: don't you have a better jtag adapter?
2022-02-04T17:33:38 < PaulFertser> stlink ob lacks enough signals routed to work as jtag.
2022-02-04T17:33:59 < Steffanx> Have the boss buy something useful mr mawk
2022-02-04T17:34:18 < mawk> I lost the jlink
2022-02-04T17:34:19 < PaulFertser> mawk: you can use an ftdi 232h board or even some raspberrypi.
2022-02-04T17:34:27 < mawk> ah yes a rpi good idea
2022-02-04T17:34:54 < Steffanx> Lost as in sold for drugs?
2022-02-04T17:35:11 < mawk> lol no
2022-02-04T17:35:15 < mawk> it's probably in the other office
2022-02-04T18:05:29 < Laurenceb> kek my aunt discovered RT comments sections
2022-02-04T18:05:43 < Laurenceb>  "I'm worried that not all of the trolls are unironic"
2022-02-04T18:05:55 < Laurenceb> *ironic
2022-02-04T18:07:04 < Laurenceb>  "I lolled, but then I wondered if some of them weren't just shitposting..."
2022-02-04T18:08:24 < BrainDamage> that's a pretty normal reaction for a normal human being
2022-02-04T18:08:35 < mawk> but I don't get it PaulFertser stlink is supposed to do jtag
2022-02-04T18:08:39 < mawk> why doesn't it work
2022-02-04T18:08:44 < BrainDamage> unlike you, that enjoy that content so much you have to produce it daily
2022-02-04T18:09:02 < BrainDamage> mawk: standalone stlink or discovery stlink?
2022-02-04T18:09:08 < mawk> standalone
2022-02-04T18:11:19 < BrainDamage> standalone has a standard 20 pin jtag
2022-02-04T18:13:00 < PaulFertser> mawk: big stlink can do jtag with cortex-a/m targets only.
2022-02-04T18:13:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: and even there it's probably limited to the target being first in the chain or some such.
2022-02-04T18:13:25 < PaulFertser> mawk: ST just doesn't want their stlinks to be good tools.
2022-02-04T18:13:42 < PaulFertser> mawk: stlinkv3 can be reflashed to cmsis-dap firmware.
2022-02-04T18:14:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yes but firmware limits its use :(
2022-02-04T18:14:54 < PaulFertser> At least now with stlink having "dap" mode support it can work with ST Cortex-A targets...
2022-02-04T18:15:03 < PaulFertser> (via SWD)
2022-02-04T18:15:14 < mawk> hm
2022-02-04T18:15:15 < BrainDamage> I've never tried the jtag with non stm targets, I guess that's why I haven't hit the limitation
2022-02-04T18:15:18 < mawk> it's esp32 target
2022-02-04T18:15:28 < mawk> I guess I'll find where I misplaced the jlink then
2022-02-04T18:15:34 < mawk> bug my boss to buy more
2022-02-04T18:15:45 < BrainDamage> I guess they did it because early on it was sold at loss
2022-02-04T18:15:59 < BrainDamage> and didn't want to finance competitors
2022-02-04T18:16:05 < mawk> I flashed a stlink ob to jlink ob also
2022-02-04T18:16:10 < mawk> but it didn't work with jtag either
2022-02-04T18:16:18 < mawk> not enough pins you said I guess
2022-02-04T18:16:59 < PaulFertser> You can use GPIOs of a SBC to bitbang jtag.
2022-02-04T18:17:29 < BrainDamage> in the end, that's really the only flexible choice
2022-02-04T18:17:41 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-04T18:17:43 < BrainDamage> since many things have their own jtag extensions
2022-02-04T18:17:45 < PaulFertser> I like ftdi-based JTAG adapters.
2022-02-04T18:18:27 < mawk> my boss makes me work with arduino shit on esp32 crap
2022-02-04T18:18:29 < BrainDamage> ( many years ago I had to pay 50 bucks for a jtag clone of a xilinx jtag, from olimex )
2022-02-04T18:18:33 < mawk> everything I hate and more
2022-02-04T18:18:40 < mawk> with a topping of platformio
2022-02-04T18:18:49 < BrainDamage> the original jtag would've been 200 bucks ....
2022-02-04T18:19:04 < mawk> it was a custom jtag protocol?
2022-02-04T18:19:07 < mawk> or what
2022-02-04T18:19:14 < BrainDamage> extensions for fpga shit
2022-02-04T18:19:19 < mawk> ah 
2022-02-04T18:19:56 < BrainDamage> the core protocol is nearly always the same, but people extend it, so you end up having to have their adapters for anything past common features
2022-02-04T18:19:58 < Xogium> meh, olimex… They don't want you to buy for someone in another country now. They even tell you so. I asked the support if I wanted to offer a gift to someone, what should I do ? They never replied
2022-02-04T18:20:39 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/RadioOperator/CMSIS-DAP_for_STLINK-V3MINI
2022-02-04T18:20:42 < BrainDamage> 50 bucks was also stupidly overrated, I bet I can do with 5€ now
2022-02-04T18:21:02 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@user/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-02-04T18:22:31 < Xogium> so olimex kinda dropped very low in my respect list
2022-02-04T18:28:24 < PaulFertser> Olimex shared schematics under free hardware license though.
2022-02-04T18:28:42 < PaulFertser> Their FTDI-based JTAG adapters are quite nice, used them a lot at work.
2022-02-04T18:29:23 < PaulFertser> I guess for Xilinx the idea is to be compatible with their FPGA tools for some features like monitoring signals inside the FPGA on live board etc.
2022-02-04T18:29:45 < PaulFertser> For just uploading the configuration to flash any JTAG adapter + openocd or urjtag can be used.
2022-02-04T18:30:14 < BrainDamage> yep, basic flash uploading you can use any jtag
2022-02-04T18:30:29 < BrainDamage> it's the whole point of the standard
2022-02-04T18:31:49 < Xogium> yeah but I couldn't even buy something for myself with my paypal
2022-02-04T18:32:06 < Xogium> my paypal is canadian, olimex went like, no way
2022-02-04T18:32:24 < PaulFertser> Paypal is a bitch
2022-02-04T18:35:40 < Xogium> you guys ever seen a usb c hub with additional usb c ports ? For the life of me I can't find one
2022-02-04T18:36:34 < Xogium> the only ones I can find have only one usb c port… Which leaves you no better than at the start, you take out one usb c port on your machine, only to just get it back on a hub
2022-02-04T18:37:34 < Xogium> I mean sure they give you more usb type a ports and even ethernet sometimes, but I don't care about that… I want usb c
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2022-02-04T18:57:52 < Steffanx> What are your needs Xogium? Just a usbc to usb c hub? Or also "normal" usb ports?
2022-02-04T18:59:20 < Xogium> Steffanx: just usb c ports
2022-02-04T18:59:26 < PaulFertser> Xogium: what's the usecase?
2022-02-04T18:59:35 < Steffanx> And pd + display and things?
2022-02-04T19:00:00 < Xogium> probly… Not sure. Coud be good to have
2022-02-04T19:00:20 < Xogium> PaulFertser: so I can charge my phone at the same damn time as using the st dev kit ;p
2022-02-04T19:00:28 < Xogium> among other things
2022-02-04T19:00:32 < BrainDamage> I thought to have one too in principle, but then you have all sort of complexity
2022-02-04T19:00:46 < BrainDamage> like, per port power negotiation, otg modes, etc etc
2022-02-04T19:00:52 < Xogium> I'm kinda annoyed at having just one usb c port on my tower
2022-02-04T19:01:06 < PaulFertser> Xogium: why does your st dev kit require type c?
2022-02-04T19:01:15 < BrainDamage> what if two devices plugged in the hub want to be hosts?
2022-02-04T19:01:39 < Xogium> PaulFertser: because none of my crap usb type a cable can push enough current
2022-02-04T19:01:46 < Xogium> like type a to c
2022-02-04T19:02:16 < Xogium> the only good cable I have for that seems to be the usb c cable that came packaged with it
2022-02-04T19:02:23 < PaulFertser> Xogium: how much current is that?
2022-02-04T19:02:34 < BrainDamage> pd requires a c to c cable
2022-02-04T19:02:46 < BrainDamage> or a welded to c cable
2022-02-04T19:02:49 < PaulFertser> Xogium: yes, the idea to have many Type-C downstream ports seems to contradict something about USB specs.
2022-02-04T19:03:34 < Xogium> I'm not 1000% sure but the speakers I hooked up to it can consume 1A of power to themselves at max volume, also not sure how much power the lcd panel draws, or how much power the wifi dongle I've got on it can consume
2022-02-04T19:03:47 < BrainDamage> 1A is within usb3 specs
2022-02-04T19:03:57 < BrainDamage> if it's at 5V
2022-02-04T19:03:59 < PaulFertser> Xogium: how is the devkit called?
2022-02-04T19:04:08 < Xogium> stm32mp157f-dk2
2022-02-04T19:04:12 < Xogium> st recommends up to 3A
2022-02-04T19:04:27 < Xogium> but I never consumed that much, probably with all the gpios and usb ports in use and etc
2022-02-04T19:04:55 < PaulFertser> https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881 is a hub with one PD port and 3 data ports, all Type-C.
2022-02-04T19:05:22 < Xogium> damn, either I did bad researches, or I just totally missed it…
2022-02-04T19:05:24 < PaulFertser> 3A should be fine for a reasonable Type-A cable.
2022-02-04T19:06:28 < Xogium> yeah… I reckon I only have crap cables here, because it's not even enough to power the dev kit and android tells me slow charging when I use it
2022-02-04T19:06:39 < PaulFertser> CN-386 sounds like what you want.
2022-02-04T19:06:54 < PaulFertser> Xogium: slow charging might mean something else.
2022-02-04T19:07:07 < PaulFertser> Xogium: not that the cables are crap.
2022-02-04T19:07:39 < Xogium> it takes like 10 to 12 hours to charge my phone from 10% to 90% battery with that crappy cable
2022-02-04T19:07:53 < Xogium> or whatever it is
2022-02-04T19:08:35 < PaulFertser> Xogium: to charge using what?
2022-02-04T19:08:42 < Xogium> with the usb c to c cable it takes about 2 hours, if that. Android says fast charging. Consuming 900 mA
2022-02-04T19:08:53 < Xogium> PaulFertser: usb 3 ports on my tower
2022-02-04T19:09:10 < PaulFertser> Xogium: why are you charging from a tower and not a charger?
2022-02-04T19:09:16 < BrainDamage> that's because they are comforming to usb 3 specs
2022-02-04T19:09:31 < BrainDamage> if you used a standalone charger, you can negotiate higher currents
2022-02-04T19:09:39 < Xogium> cause I don't own one, and also lacking sockets
2022-02-04T19:09:45 < PaulFertser> Xogium: usually smartphones are either using PD or trying a QC procedure to negotiate a higher current or voltage.
2022-02-04T19:09:58 < Xogium> and also quite nervous about getting crappy chargers that could be dangerous :D
2022-02-04T19:10:07 < PaulFertser> Xogium: over type A only QC is possible but obviously USB hosts do not support QC.
2022-02-04T19:10:10 < BrainDamage> chargers are kinda ubiquious
2022-02-04T19:10:12 < Xogium> I don't know what's good or bad
2022-02-04T19:10:25 < BrainDamage> you can get a decent one for 10 bucks
2022-02-04T19:10:25 < PaulFertser> Xogium: so the phone can't know it's allowed to draw more than 500 mA or some such.
2022-02-04T19:11:04 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: regarding decency, can you be sure buying a charger in Italy that it has real Y capacitor inside?
2022-02-04T19:11:48 < Xogium> I've seen so many stories about crappy chargers causing issues it made me uneasy and unsure if I want to get one
2022-02-04T19:12:02 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: you know you cannot ever be sure, but even a crappy charger has low issues of severe malfunction
2022-02-04T19:12:05 < PaulFertser> I'd trust a charger bought in Ikea probably.
2022-02-04T19:12:08 < BrainDamage> it can output noise
2022-02-04T19:12:36 < BrainDamage> but overheating is already unlikely, as long as you go for a store bought one
2022-02-04T19:12:44 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I'm worried after reading articles about chargers killing people via headphones.
2022-02-04T19:13:19 < BrainDamage> that's the thing, store bought are 'tested' by the masses
2022-02-04T19:13:32 < Xogium> yeah like… I dunno. I guess I get stressed over tiny things. But I had a very bad experience with electricity and since then I've always been jumpy and on edge with this sort of things
2022-02-04T19:13:39 < BrainDamage> so if one would have such horrible defects, it'd get recalled
2022-02-04T19:13:58 < Xogium> capacitor in a bran new psu for my laptop started boiling
2022-02-04T19:14:01 < PaulFertser> It's a rare case when you need to be using such a charger and you get lightning strike nearby and it's not properly protected and you're listening in wired headphones etc.
2022-02-04T19:16:33 < Xogium> that honestly scared me half to death. My friend said he saw a blue bolt of electricity when I plugged the psu in, then the thing started hissing like an angry snake and getting real hot and smelly
2022-02-04T19:17:17 < PaulFertser> Xogium: that's an interesting story. A brand new PSU from a reputable vendor?
2022-02-04T19:17:22 < Xogium> yep
2022-02-04T19:18:11 < Xogium> I suppose I'm lucky I didn't kill the laptop with it at the time…
2022-02-04T19:18:33 < PaulFertser> Not working PSU I can imagine. Blue bolt is fine and expected when you plug it in, that's normal. But having some internal failure leading to overheating is quite unlikely.
2022-02-04T19:18:58 < Xogium> I didn't know the capacitor was boiling inside back then but when I brought it to the repair shop and the folks opened it, they said that I was lucky anbd
2022-02-04T19:19:08 < Xogium> you don't want to try out a psu with no more capacitor left
2022-02-04T19:20:44 < Xogium> yeah, I've not a clue what happened… and I've been on edge ever since :p
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2022-02-04T19:21:40 < PaulFertser> That's rather rare if we're talking about reputable vendors.
2022-02-04T19:21:40 < Xogium> I know it's probably dumb, but it's hard to not feel so much on edge
2022-02-04T19:22:05 < PaulFertser> Probably it was fake?
2022-02-04T19:22:18 < Xogium> could be, yeah
2022-02-04T19:22:49 < Xogium> or maybe it didn't handle either 240v or 50hz while claiming it did
2022-02-04T19:23:19 < Xogium> but I mean, if it was that, that should have triggered the breaker shouldn't it
2022-02-04T19:23:47 < BrainDamage> not necessarily
2022-02-04T19:24:12 < BrainDamage> eg here the curve is so that for a 3kW user supply, you can draw 13.9kW for 2 mins, without breaking
2022-02-04T19:24:25 < BrainDamage> and 14kW are plenty to melt things
2022-02-04T19:24:33 < Xogium> yeah, no kidding
2022-02-04T19:24:41 < BrainDamage> however, if you exceed 14kW, it'll detach in 1s
2022-02-04T19:25:14 < BrainDamage> so if you don't get a complete short, you can have the breaker kick in late ... or never
2022-02-04T19:25:25 < Xogium> yikes no fun
2022-02-04T19:25:31 < BrainDamage> you only need few douzens W to make capacitors boil
2022-02-04T19:25:43 < BrainDamage> well within normal operation
2022-02-04T19:25:57 < Xogium> right
2022-02-04T19:26:13 < Xogium> that's one hell of a scary sound
2022-02-04T19:27:19 < Xogium> angry snake is probably not the correct analogy… Hmm. The sound it makes when you put a hot pan you just finished cooking in under cold water ? Yeah, more like that, except it never died down
2022-02-04T19:28:20 < Xogium> at any rate it was instant. Plug in, not half a second later it was making that noise
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2022-02-04T20:53:27 < englishman> i also find it weird there aren't more USB-C hubs
2022-02-04T20:53:54 < englishman> even the USB-C docks have few C ports if any
2022-02-04T20:54:01 < Xogium> englishman: isn't it, eh ?
2022-02-04T20:54:35 < Xogium> its like usb c took off for phones and tablets and the likes, but no freaking thing for pc
2022-02-04T20:54:59 < englishman> except the 1 or maybe 2 ports built into a laptop (macbook pro innovating with 3!!!!! ports)
2022-02-04T20:56:09 < Xogium> yeah
2022-02-04T20:56:17 < Xogium> my mobo has like only one single port
2022-02-04T20:57:03 < Xogium> but if I could, I'd pick usb c over usb type a any day
2022-02-04T20:57:24 < Xogium> if only for the fact you don't need to bloody struggle with the damn things to figure out which way they plug in
2022-02-04T20:57:45 < englishman> seems ideal for the visually impaired
2022-02-04T20:57:54 < Xogium> yeah
2022-02-04T20:58:25 < Xogium> tbh, I don't even understand why type a isn't like this. I mean, the plug sure feels identical on both sides
2022-02-04T21:00:51 < Xogium> but I guess it all has to do with the connector and how it's made on the inside
2022-02-04T21:02:25 < ventYl> type C isn't that good in fact
2022-02-04T21:02:39 < ventYl> there are still some features, which only work if you plug it in one side and not another
2022-02-04T21:03:55 < Xogium> huh huh… I've never hit that yet
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2022-02-04T21:14:17 < ventYl> typically it happens with video over USB-C
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2022-02-04T21:18:50 < Xogium> ah… strange. I never used that yet, maybe why why I never noticed
2022-02-04T21:19:06 < ventYl> well I can see the reason why you don't need this feature
2022-02-04T21:19:13 < Xogium> ;)
2022-02-04T21:19:38 -!- steve__ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-04T21:19:49 < Xogium> it's nice to have portsd and cables that can handle it tough, just in case it is needed one day
2022-02-04T21:19:54 < Xogium> *ports
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2022-02-04T21:23:28 < jpa-> ventYl: what features? on a correctly implemented device or just on crappy devices?
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2022-02-04T21:57:25 < Laurenceb> hmm Lunix keyboard has broken
2022-02-04T21:57:30 < Laurenceb>  [drm] HPD interrupt storm detected on connector DP-2: switching from hotplug detection to polling
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2022-02-04T22:01:42 < upgrdman> anyone ever had the windows graphics driver crash sometimes when invoking Task View? not always, but maybe 10% of the time. happens on my xps 17 with intel + nvidia graphics. updated windows and both graphics drivers. still happens sometimes.
2022-02-04T22:02:03 < upgrdman> and updated bios and all other dell stuff
2022-02-04T22:02:10 < upgrdman> still happens though
2022-02-04T22:07:47 < Laurenceb> hmm power cycling doesnt fix it
2022-02-04T22:07:49 < Laurenceb> not good
2022-02-04T22:08:07 < Laurenceb> the HPD interrupt storm corresponded to it failing
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2022-02-04T22:15:21 < Laurenceb> reinstalling graphics driver fixed it, weird
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2022-02-04T22:29:53 < mawk> Xogium: comment tu dis bricolage en anglais?
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2022-02-04T22:35:53 < Xogium> mawk: euh bonne question haha
2022-02-04T22:36:05 < mawk> hardware work?
2022-02-04T22:36:07 < mawk> maybe
2022-02-04T22:36:39 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-04T22:36:42 < Xogium> mawk: dépend du contexte probablement
2022-02-04T22:39:09 < Xogium> mawk: je vois souvent DIY
2022-02-04T22:40:05 < mawk> ouais mais là c'est du vrai bricolage
2022-02-04T22:40:17 < mawk> genre j'ai réparé le pas de vis d'une poignée pour une porte
2022-02-04T22:40:35 < mawk> en diluant de la pâte à bois avec de l'acétone, puis en l'injectant à la seringue dans le pas de vis 
2022-02-04T22:40:40 < mawk> et ensuite je revisse dedans et ça tient
2022-02-04T22:40:45 < mawk> c'est la cheville du pauvre
2022-02-04T22:41:08 < Xogium> mawk: ah ouais… j'avoue là je sais pas
2022-02-04T22:41:34 < mawk> repair work
2022-02-04T22:41:35 < mawk> I guess
2022-02-04T22:41:52 < Xogium> yeah likely
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2022-02-04T22:52:48 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français, et toi?
2022-02-04T22:55:01 < Xogium> Steffanx: I guess you know the answer to that question :p
2022-02-04T22:59:43 < mawk> Steffanx: et vous*
2022-02-04T22:59:46 < mawk> please be polite
2022-02-04T22:59:50 < mawk> == en u?
2022-02-04T22:59:58 < mawk> instead of "en jij?"
2022-02-04T23:00:54 < Xogium> mawk: oh stop being so formal
2022-02-04T23:00:57 < Xogium> :D
2022-02-04T23:02:45 < mawk> lol
2022-02-04T23:16:16 < Steffanx> Je ne care pas at all 
2022-02-04T23:19:18 < bitmask> fuck off
2022-02-04T23:20:17 < Steffanx> Va te faire foutre, bitmask 
2022-02-04T23:20:24 < Xogium> lol
2022-02-04T23:25:35 < karlp> Laurenceb: 5900 is the start of vnc ports, probably random at the top, and then plus 1 for each display after that?
2022-02-04T23:25:39 < bitmask> haha
2022-02-04T23:26:04 < bitmask> i love you Steffanx 
2022-02-04T23:27:04 < bitmask> hmm i gotta finish my camera/transform classes
2022-02-04T23:28:33 < mawk> yes fuck off Steffanx 
2022-02-04T23:28:36 < mawk> you need to be polite
2022-02-04T23:28:53 < mawk> to be a good dutchie
2022-02-04T23:31:35 < Steffanx> I dont recall we're known to be polite mawk
2022-02-04T23:31:50 < Steffanx> "They" always say we're so direct.
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2022-02-04T23:36:03 < toadtoad> dutch people imho and experience tend to have a god complex
2022-02-04T23:37:03 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-04T23:39:24 < Steffanx> You're confused with americans 
2022-02-04T23:40:27 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@ip72-201-138-188.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-04T23:42:04 < toadtoad> it’s possible it’s because the dutch secrectly envy america
2022-02-04T23:42:26 < Steffanx> Unlikely
2022-02-04T23:43:08 < toadtoad> an answer for everything eh Steffanx
2022-02-04T23:43:51 < Steffanx> Ofcourse. I have to defend my fellow country mates.
2022-02-04T23:45:59 < Steffanx> And how are you toadtoad ?
2022-02-04T23:47:23 < toadtoad> the same countryman you’ll call a prick to his face and then go for a beer after, anyway
2022-02-04T23:47:30 < toadtoad> i’m interested in stm32 talk
2022-02-04T23:48:48 < karlp> ventYl: have you heard of new stuff onyl working one way up on usb-c? I knew there was a problem in the controller in an early google phone or chromebook or something, and there's always shitty hardware designs, but I didn't know this was still something that was happening.
2022-02-04T23:56:25 < toadtoad> Recently got an STM32F091RC but run out of ideas of what to do with it
2022-02-04T23:56:41 < toadtoad> Could anyone recommend a project I can pursue?
--- Day changed Sat Feb 05 2022
2022-02-05T00:14:24 < machinehum> yo
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2022-02-05T00:14:40 < machinehum> jlcpcb inner layer trace width == 0.09mm?
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2022-02-05T00:32:21 < karlp> they litereally have a table of this on their own website, why ar eyou asking here?
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2022-02-05T00:44:31 < josuah> toadtoad: an mp3 player?
2022-02-05T00:44:58 < toadtoad> I like it josuah
2022-02-05T00:45:13 < josuah> I wonder if one can use pwm to generate ok-ish sound...
2022-02-05T00:47:02 < josuah> I can get GPIO to blink a led bare metal stm32l0 (iirc some cortex m0+ like stm32f0 but low-power), good
2022-02-05T00:47:13 < josuah> I turn it off and on again, the led stops blinking
2022-02-05T00:47:33 < josuah> how bad did I screw up? :P
2022-02-05T00:49:18 < josuah> I mean, I try to plug SWD to it, as soon as I can watch the registers and step through assembly with GDB, I see:
2022-02-05T00:49:46 < josuah>  1) reset_handler (good) 2) usagefault_interrupt 3) it's dead now
2022-02-05T00:50:16 < josuah> well make sure to call me if you need some developer for crashing your chips
2022-02-05T00:50:50 < josuah> let's see if I am as good at solving heisenbugs as causing them
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2022-02-05T00:56:43 < catphish> such lens flare :) https://i.imgur.com/IWwoxSh.jpg
2022-02-05T00:57:17 < catphish> electric motor now two thirds of the way to being mounted in the car https://imgur.com/a/SyHtokv
2022-02-05T00:57:55 < Xogium> josuah: heisenbugs are a complete nightmare
2022-02-05T00:59:20 < josuah> catphish: that some heavy duty soldering! that led sure wont fall this time!
2022-02-05T01:01:42 < catphish> josuah: i was pretty impressed by the welding skills :)
2022-02-05T01:02:47 < josuah> a welding one's life depends on! for it is a car...
2022-02-05T01:03:36 < josuah> Xogium: I'll have to take the waraxe to fight it then
2022-02-05T01:05:28 < Xogium> josuah: heh, definitely… The fact they alter their behaviour when you try to study them is the most horrible aspect
2022-02-05T01:05:28 < catphish> i hope to do some welding myself soon, but since this is the main motor mount that has to take serious forces, i thought i'd better leave it to the expert
2022-02-05T01:06:11 < josuah> catphish: maybe that is also what the expert said until he realizes other experts around are doing worse
2022-02-05T01:07:04 < josuah> what is hard to tell if: if I try, will I be that "worse expert around" or "the one figuring out he's not doing so bad by looking around"
2022-02-05T01:07:14 < josuah> s/if:/is:/
2022-02-05T01:09:18 < catphish> only way to become the expert is to do it badly 100 times :)
2022-02-05T01:09:35 < catphish> but not with life depentent things
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2022-02-05T01:17:45 < Laurenceb> wtf
2022-02-05T01:17:59 < Laurenceb> this shit is useless https://www.kali.org/tools/pwnat/
2022-02-05T01:18:13 < Laurenceb> it "works" but only in cases where I could connect anyway
2022-02-05T01:19:26 < Laurenceb> lol https://github.com/samyk/pwnat/issues/18
2022-02-05T01:19:29 < Laurenceb> busted
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2022-02-05T01:36:26 < mawk> when a stm32 is in level 2 protection I cannot even put my own code on it, right PaulFertser ?
2022-02-05T01:36:40 < mawk> wasn't there some sort of exploit that could be done
2022-02-05T01:36:50 < mawk> it's a STM32L051
2022-02-05T01:37:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm not aware of exploits for L0
2022-02-05T01:37:36 < mawk> :(
2022-02-05T01:37:51 < mawk> let's hope it's not level 2 then
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2022-02-05T01:38:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: hm, seems it applies: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/woot19-paper_schink.pdf
2022-02-05T01:39:33 < PaulFertser> But not to level 2 I'm afraid.
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2022-02-05T01:52:33 < machinehum> karlp: I can't read
2022-02-05T01:53:43 < machinehum> I remember a while ago their inner layer trace thickness and clearance was different from the outer layer
2022-02-05T01:53:53 < machinehum> But I can't find mention of that anywhere
2022-02-05T01:54:02 < machinehum> So I need the good people of #stm32 to validate me
2022-02-05T01:54:20 < machinehum> Is ascii porn a thing?
2022-02-05T01:54:51 < machinehum> Oh, yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII_porn
2022-02-05T01:56:06 < machinehum> NSFW: https://pastebin.com/raw/yP3MhUzb
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2022-02-05T01:58:18 < catphish> lol
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2022-02-05T02:57:49 < Laurenceb> damn this guy is good
2022-02-05T02:57:51 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/samyk/slipstream
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2022-02-05T03:42:47 < steve__> ^ that is gnarly
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2022-02-05T04:20:24 < machinehum> Nuts
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2022-02-05T05:44:40 < machinehum> Plus 10 Korean mama
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2022-02-05T08:49:01 < ventYl> karlp: yes, it happens still. cheap HW does not always have muxs for everything and sometimes. If two such pieces of HW meet, certain features only work one way. Pinebook usually gives you DP alternate only one way with most of USB-C hubs
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2022-02-05T11:08:59 < karlp> machinehum: looks like they actually have removed that limitation?
2022-02-05T11:09:02 < karlp> ventYl: that sucks :)
2022-02-05T11:20:35 < karlp> qyx: switch to a7? https://www.microchipdirect.com/product/SAMA7G54-V/4HB?productLoaded=true
2022-02-05T11:21:09 < karlp> it's been in linux for almost a year, there's board support coming in openwrt, it's in octopart and microchip shop, but _nothing_ on microchip's website themselves
2022-02-05T11:21:20 < karlp> mchp's webshop link to product details is just dead :)
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2022-02-05T11:22:37 < ventYl> karlp: IIRC it is the same for some phones
2022-02-05T11:22:50 < karlp> sure, but this isn't really a phone soc,
2022-02-05T11:22:54 < ventYl> haven't tried with my desktop. it probably doesn't even have DP-alternate
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2022-02-05T11:23:00 < karlp> this is just an a7 version of the a5...
2022-02-05T11:23:05 < karlp> oh, you're talkingabout usb-c still
2022-02-05T11:23:10 < ventYl> yeah
2022-02-05T11:23:21 < ventYl> i am switching between mining and irc
2022-02-05T11:23:36 < karlp> mining?
2022-02-05T11:24:01 < ventYl> yeah, I wanted to renew living room furniture
2022-02-05T11:24:09 < ventYl> ended up digging out 30cm layer of floor
2022-02-05T11:24:17 < ventYl> (that escallated quickly)
2022-02-05T11:24:45 < karlp> fucking uboot and bitbake got sama7g5ek-sd board support dec 2020.
2022-02-05T11:24:51 < karlp> still no fucking docs on mchp web
2022-02-05T11:25:00 < karlp> I wonder if it has killer errata...
2022-02-05T11:25:36 < Xogium> or noone wrote the doc
2022-02-05T11:25:43 < ventYl> qyx has been using some SAMA7
2022-02-05T11:25:47 < ventYl> but IDK which
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2022-02-05T11:31:27 < karlp> no,he was using sama5
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2022-02-05T11:39:54 < Steffanx> It got lost when merging atmel and microchip.
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2022-02-05T11:48:11 < ventYl> ah right
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2022-02-05T15:23:54 < qyx> karlp: sam7s256 too
2022-02-05T15:23:59 < qyx> but that was arm7tdmi
2022-02-05T15:25:45 < qyx> but but Order now, can ship on 10-Mar-2023 
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2022-02-05T15:59:25 < josuah> Yesterday I had some trouble with executing a bare-metal blinky on a stm32, and libopencm3 helped me getting rid of that heisenbug!
2022-02-05T15:59:31 < Laurenceb> silly idea of the day: ip tunnel via an irc server using base64 encoding
2022-02-05T15:59:36 < josuah> so, thanks and congrats \o/
2022-02-05T15:59:44 < Laurenceb> well done
2022-02-05T16:23:32 < karlp> josuah: how did it help if I may ask?
2022-02-05T16:40:42 < josuah> karlp: by working
2022-02-05T16:40:58 < josuah> karlp: then I can swap piece by piece the content of libopencm3 with my library, until it stops working
2022-02-05T16:41:08 < josuah> and then I probably am on spot on what I need to change on my library
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2022-02-05T16:41:56 < Laurenceb> hmm systemd has broken
2022-02-05T16:42:07 < Laurenceb>  systemd[378]: raspi-config.service: Failed to connect stdout to the journal socket, ignoring: Connection refused
2022-02-05T16:43:22 < josuah> karlp: by having a set of compilation flag, linker script... and using my code and headers it works reliably, so I know I can stop debugging my .c and .h (and save a couple of days of work!)
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2022-02-05T16:48:19 < josuah> libopencm3 is much better work than mine, but I wanted to try by myself as well as touch to RISC-V, AVR, maybe some ESP32 some day too
2022-02-05T16:58:34 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/QWT3Pxl.png
2022-02-05T16:58:39 < mawk> ISO 3200 picture 
2022-02-05T16:58:49 < mawk> of Dracula's castle in Steffanx land
2022-02-05T17:26:35 < Laurenceb>  systemd-timedated.service: Failed to connect stdout to the journal socket, ignoring: Connection refused
2022-02-05T17:26:54 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
2022-02-05T17:28:09 < Steffanx> wtf Laurenceb
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2022-02-05T17:36:03 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/ML0fkG8u
2022-02-05T17:42:21 < Laurenceb> aha
2022-02-05T17:42:22 < Laurenceb>  systemd-journald[112]: Assertion 'clock_gettime(map_clock_id(clock_id), &ts) == 0' failed at ../src/basic/time-util.c:55, function now(). Aborting.
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2022-02-05T17:42:33 < Laurenceb> first error, probably the source of this issue?
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2022-02-05T17:53:04 < englishman> Laurenceb i read today that google loon had finally closed and thought of you.
2022-02-05T17:53:10 < englishman> how is the roccoon?
2022-02-05T17:54:14 < Steffanx> In the same state as his lunix installation atm 
2022-02-05T17:54:21 < Steffanx> Failing and aborted.
2022-02-05T17:54:31 < englishman> guten morgen sir stefs
2022-02-05T17:55:12 < englishman> how is the family
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2022-02-05T18:01:42 < Steffanx> Good afternoon  sir engishs.  They're all fine. 
2022-02-05T18:02:06 < Steffanx> And the cat is sleeping so deep it's like she's dead .
2022-02-05T18:02:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org/msg68712.html
2022-02-05T18:02:21 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
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2022-02-05T18:23:36 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2022-02-05T18:23:38 < Laurenceb>  awk
2022-02-05T18:23:38 < Laurenceb> -bash: /usr/bin/awk: No such file or directory
2022-02-05T18:23:50 < Laurenceb> its there but its a symlink to mawk
2022-02-05T18:25:29 < Steffanx> You mawk.. now you're lost
2022-02-05T18:25:35 < Steffanx> Yeah mawk*
2022-02-05T18:28:15 < Laurenceb> hmm wtf
2022-02-05T18:28:43 < Laurenceb> -bash: /usr/bin/mawk: No such file or directory
2022-02-05T18:28:43 < Laurenceb> pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls -l /usr/bin | grep "mawk"
2022-02-05T18:28:43 < Laurenceb> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root         94500 Apr  8  2012 mawk
2022-02-05T18:29:00 < Laurenceb> how is that possible
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2022-02-05T18:32:01 < Laurenceb> aha fixed it
2022-02-05T18:32:17 < Laurenceb> it was an x86 binary that had ended up on my system
2022-02-05T18:39:56 < Laurenceb> Job for systemd-timedated.service failed because a fatal signal was delivered 
2022-02-05T18:40:00 < Laurenceb> still not working tho
2022-02-05T18:42:19 < Laurenceb> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70427929/timedatectl-and-systemd-timesyncd-services-fail-to-set-time
2022-02-05T18:42:23 < Laurenceb> looks like my issue
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2022-02-05T19:27:31 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: fyi vanilla Debian works on bananapi and cubietruck (allwinner a20) so both armhf and systemd-timesync works out of the box and syncs the time properly.
2022-02-05T19:30:08 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2022-02-05T19:30:33 < Laurenceb> looks like it only occurs on upgraded rpi kernels and when network is down and rtc takes time to boot
2022-02-05T19:36:23 < Xogium> I'd bet my money on dnssec. If your system time is wrong by even a few hours… you can't sync the time because the system time is wrong and dnssec thus fails, which causes a very annoying infinite loop
2022-02-05T19:37:26 < Laurenceb> Xogium: NTP etc all works fine
2022-02-05T19:37:42 < Xogium> ah I thought you couldn't sync over ntp
2022-02-05T19:37:52 < Laurenceb> its just that system time is in 1970 for a couple of seconds during boot, before the rtc driver loads
2022-02-05T19:38:00 < Laurenceb> problem is that kills half of systemd
2022-02-05T19:38:16 < Xogium> how so ?
2022-02-05T19:38:37 < Xogium> systemd should even detect that the time is off, and advance the system clock to at the very least the release date
2022-02-05T19:38:40 < Laurenceb> clock_gettime returns -1
2022-02-05T19:38:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-05T19:38:51 < Laurenceb> wtf
2022-02-05T19:39:10 < Xogium> I'm not sure what's going on, I never saw this malfunctioning before
2022-02-05T19:40:01 < Xogium> granted my rtc driver is built-in and isn't a module so kernel sets the system time way faster here… but on board that doesn't have a rtc it always behaved okay
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2022-02-05T19:40:26 < Laurenceb> yeah I've got issues anyway, I need my application code to be able to know if the time is valid
2022-02-05T19:40:35 < Laurenceb> systemd advancing the clock will break everything
2022-02-05T19:40:39 < Laurenceb> anyway
2022-02-05T19:40:41 < Laurenceb>  2.402928] systemd[1]: System time before build time, advancing clock.
2022-02-05T19:40:50 < Xogium> yeah
2022-02-05T19:41:01 < Laurenceb>     3.363112] systemd-journald[122]: Assertion 'clock_gettime(map_clock_id(clock_id), &ts) == 0' failed
2022-02-05T19:41:03 < Xogium> wait, your app runs earlier than systemd ?
2022-02-05T19:41:05 < Laurenceb> wtf you were right
2022-02-05T19:41:25 < Laurenceb> no afterwards, but it needs to know if the time is correct, e.g. what if the rtc breaks
2022-02-05T19:41:32 < Xogium> ah right
2022-02-05T19:41:53 < Xogium> you could have it wait on, et what was it again
2022-02-05T19:41:53 < Laurenceb> ok so clock_gettime returns -1 after systemd resets the clock, wtf
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2022-02-05T19:42:27 < Xogium> have it wait on time-sync.target I believe it was
2022-02-05T19:42:41 < Xogium> and ensure systemd-time-wait-sync runs
2022-02-05T19:42:59 < Xogium> that would make your apply start only when the system time is really synced
2022-02-05T19:43:14 < PaulFertser> Xogium: btw, this dnssec-ntp dependency is broken properly in default OpenWrt config.
2022-02-05T19:43:16 < Xogium> er your app, not apply lol sorry tired
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2022-02-05T19:44:14 < Laurenceb> systemd-time-wait-sync is a module?
2022-02-05T19:44:19 < Xogium> PaulFertser: yeah… systemd finally fixed it too… Better late than never, I guess ? In 249 I think that was
2022-02-05T19:44:28 < Xogium> Laurenceb: its a service
2022-02-05T19:45:23 < Laurenceb> sudo systemctl start systemd-time-wait-sync
2022-02-05T19:45:26 < Laurenceb> ?
2022-02-05T19:46:00 < Xogium> I'd enable on boot
2022-02-05T19:46:01 < Xogium> systemd-time-wait-sync is a system service that delays the start of units that are ordered after time-sync.target (see systemd.special(7) for details) until the system time has been synchronized with an accurate remote reference time source by systemd-timesyncd.service.
2022-02-05T19:46:05 < Xogium> systemd-timesyncd.service notifies systemd-time-wait-sync about successful synchronization.  systemd-time-wait-sync also tries to detect when the kernel marks the system clock as synchronized, but this detection is not reliable and is intended only as a fallback for compatibility with alternative NTP services that can be used to synchronize time (e.g., ntpd, chronyd).
2022-02-05T19:46:38 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
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2022-02-05T19:47:01 < Laurenceb> somehow I dont think this will fix it
2022-02-05T19:47:03 < Xogium> might mean your app would start later, but at least the time should be good by then
2022-02-05T19:47:11 < Laurenceb> thats not the problem
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2022-02-05T19:47:18 < Laurenceb> something is breaking systemd itself
2022-02-05T19:47:49 < Laurenceb> clock_gettime should not return -1
2022-02-05T19:48:44 < Xogium> hmm I don't know how to debug that tbh
2022-02-05T19:49:42 < Laurenceb> yeah its a tricky one
2022-02-05T19:49:56 < Laurenceb> I might just have to leave it, my application code doesnt use systemd
2022-02-05T19:50:07 < Laurenceb> it just makes logging in and out a pain
2022-02-05T19:50:21 < Laurenceb> have to wait for timedatectl to timeout at each login
2022-02-05T19:51:00 < Laurenceb> also my application cant use systemd to determine if the clock is valid, but I'm not convenced that would work anyway
2022-02-05T19:51:06 < mawk> which clock did you request time from Laurenceb 
2022-02-05T19:51:12 < Laurenceb> I'm not even sure how to detect an invalid clock
2022-02-05T19:51:22 < Laurenceb> mawk: I dunno it'd be inside the systemd source
2022-02-05T19:51:46 < Laurenceb> mawk: that error is from systemd as it starts up
2022-02-05T19:52:32 < Laurenceb> mawk: error occurs after systemd advanced the system time from 1970 to compilation date
2022-02-05T19:52:45 < Laurenceb> so the system clock should be valid
2022-02-05T19:52:53 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: pastebin journalctl -b
2022-02-05T19:56:17 < Laurenceb> no entries as journald fails
2022-02-05T19:57:11 < BrainDamage> I feel like this is another consequence of your insane experiments, you end up with the most crazy failure modes
2022-02-05T19:58:17 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/src/basic/time-util.c#L55
2022-02-05T19:59:58 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: on OpenBMC I saw systemd failing in a way that journalctl didn't work and everything was extremely slow until the time was set to something reasonable.
2022-02-05T20:00:34 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: and I could attach GDB and do some debugging but I didn't come to any conclusion.
2022-02-05T20:01:37 < Xogium> woah weird
2022-02-05T20:01:50 < Xogium> do you remember which systemd version that was ?
2022-02-05T20:03:28 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I didn't take notes so no. But it was really that nasty. I could log in over serial and everything systemd-related just hanged, and 100 % CPU was used. And it was immediately starting to work after "date -s .." command.
2022-02-05T20:03:46 < PaulFertser> And there was nothing experimental about that system.
2022-02-05T20:04:05 < karlp> josuah: were you using the libopencm3-miniblink test repo? or some other examples or what? (just curious which bits are working well, which less so)
2022-02-05T20:04:58 < Xogium> wow damn. I've never seen such a thing before
2022-02-05T20:05:09 < Xogium> I don't doubt that it could happen, just haven't seen it ever
2022-02-05T20:05:15 < karlp> 16:32:17   Laurenceb | it was an x86 binary that had ended up on my system
2022-02-05T20:05:21 < karlp> lolrence lolrencing again I see...
2022-02-05T20:06:35 < PaulFertser> I'd like to know how that happened.
2022-02-05T20:06:45 < karlp> scp'ing shit to "fix" things I bet.
2022-02-05T20:07:05 < Laurenceb> maybe I should reinstall systemd
2022-02-05T20:07:06 < karlp> but yeaa, ending up with x86 mawk in usr/bin on a pi is pretty special lolrence grade destruction.
2022-02-05T20:07:27 < mawk> I feel violated
2022-02-05T20:07:34 < Laurenceb> looks like CLOCK_REALTIME or MONOTOMIC is used
2022-02-05T20:07:36 < karlp> you're the one who picked the mawk name.
2022-02-05T20:08:17 < mawk> :(
2022-02-05T20:08:24 < mawk> it's not related to the awk flavor
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2022-02-05T20:15:44 < jpa-> the fix is obviously to apt-get install qemu-user-binfmt so that it can run x86 binaries
2022-02-05T20:15:59 < Xogium> :D
2022-02-05T20:17:02 < jpa-> it's actually pretty funny, i have that installed on my desktop and sometimes i've accidentally tried to run some embedded firmware and got a segfault :)
2022-02-05T20:17:51 < BrainDamage> I'm impressed it did run, iirc it tries to match elf headers
2022-02-05T20:18:51 < jpa-> seems to invoke qemu-arm just fine, it probably would even work if i wouldn't poke all kinds of crazy registers
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 06 2022
2022-02-06T00:02:48 < qyx> any STM32L5 experience yet?
2022-02-06T00:25:21 < Steffanx> What is STM32?
2022-02-06T00:27:17 < qyx> you sound like a dutchlander asking what is a hill
2022-02-06T00:35:18 < Laurenceb> argg freaking lunix
2022-02-06T00:35:40 < Laurenceb> there doesnt seem to be any non mad way to find out if it has any idea what the time is
2022-02-06T00:38:04 < mawk> you type "date" Laurenceb 
2022-02-06T00:38:07 < mawk> here's your time
2022-02-06T00:38:15 < mawk> also the time, but there are several clocks
2022-02-06T00:38:23 < Laurenceb> what if systemd reset the clock to its compilation date
2022-02-06T00:38:25 < mawk> it's not linux fault's for telling you what the hardware knows
2022-02-06T00:38:33 < mawk> what if, yes?
2022-02-06T00:38:36 < mawk> what's that question
2022-02-06T00:38:57 < Laurenceb> its badly in need of metadata
2022-02-06T00:39:03 < Laurenceb>  "how it knows the time"
2022-02-06T00:39:08 < Laurenceb> inb4 sjw
2022-02-06T00:39:28 < Laurenceb>  "check ur time shitlord"
2022-02-06T00:39:40 < Laurenceb>  "alternative ways of knowing the time"
2022-02-06T00:40:07 < Laurenceb> but seriously , "how do you know what time it is" is useful metadata
2022-02-06T00:40:19 < mawk> I don't get what you're trying to do
2022-02-06T00:40:26 < mawk> if you want the time, use clock_gettime with clock CLOCK_REALTIME for instance
2022-02-06T00:40:31 < mawk> it will tell you the rtc time
2022-02-06T00:40:50 < mawk> and any adjustements from ntp 
2022-02-06T00:42:30 < Steffanx> We have hills qyx.
2022-02-06T00:42:43 < Steffanx> Do you have STM32s?
2022-02-06T00:44:05 < Laurenceb> is realtime specifically the RTC?
2022-02-06T00:44:10 < mawk> I saw an artificial ski slope on the way to Drachten Steffanx 
2022-02-06T00:44:11 < mawk> no Laurenceb 
2022-02-06T00:44:16 < mawk> rtc is just one of the ways to set it
2022-02-06T00:44:31 < mawk> if you want the rtc specifically go look in /proc/driver/rtc
2022-02-06T00:44:40 < mawk> it's a simple text file
2022-02-06T00:44:46 < mawk> it's updated every second
2022-02-06T00:45:03 < Laurenceb> oh cool
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2022-02-06T00:45:59 < Laurenceb> mawk: this might help me, hwclock -r is rage inducing as it blocks for up to ~750ms and sometimes fails
2022-02-06T00:46:14 < Laurenceb> it tries to wait for a tick
2022-02-06T00:46:45 < Laurenceb> this should be fast
2022-02-06T00:47:06 < Laurenceb> does ntpd try to set rtc as soon as it first syncs if rtc isnt already set?
2022-02-06T00:47:16 < qyx> Steffanx: you bet I have
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2022-02-06T00:49:29 < BrainDamage> no, in fact if there's more than 15 mins deltaT ntp will bail out on setting it
2022-02-06T00:49:38 < BrainDamage> ntpd*
2022-02-06T00:51:59 < Laurenceb> really?! pretty sure I tested that a while back
2022-02-06T00:52:12 < Laurenceb> iirc it worked with a few hours of delta
2022-02-06T00:53:14 < BrainDamage> default is 1000s
2022-02-06T00:53:18 < Laurenceb> but thats a slightly different case anyway - Lunix detects if the RTC lost battery
2022-02-06T00:53:21 < BrainDamage> you can pass -g to ignore that ONCE
2022-02-06T00:53:22 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2022-02-06T00:54:48 < Laurenceb> I should read the sores... if I can find them...
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2022-02-06T01:05:52 < Laurenceb> oh I see, init.d restarts a quitted ntpd
2022-02-06T01:37:30 < octorian> TIL that attempting to refresh an uninitialized IWDG causes the FLASH-SR's write protect error bit to get set.
2022-02-06T01:40:44 < octorian> (at least on the STM32L072 that I'm using)
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2022-02-06T02:06:20 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2022-02-06T02:06:22 < Laurenceb> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/time/ntp.c#L660
2022-02-06T02:06:27 < Laurenceb> sores
2022-02-06T02:07:33 < Laurenceb> I dont get it
2022-02-06T02:07:47 < Laurenceb> timer runs once then nothing if there is no ntp sync at boot?
2022-02-06T02:08:05 < Laurenceb> here ->  https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/time/ntp.c#L507
2022-02-06T02:08:45 < mawk> what's surprising?
2022-02-06T02:10:42 < qyx> isn't it a one time sntp sync only?
2022-02-06T02:11:38 < qyx> but doesn't look soo
2022-02-06T02:13:39 < Laurenceb> mawk: what if system has not ntp when it boots
2022-02-06T02:13:45 < Laurenceb> then it will never get the time ever
2022-02-06T02:15:11 < mawk> it gets it from rtc
2022-02-06T02:29:06 < Laurenceb> sure but it will never set the rtc
2022-02-06T02:32:24 < Laurenceb> this cant be right, I must have misunderstood something
2022-02-06T02:34:47 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe this ntp code shuts down and restarts if clock is unsynchronised or something...
2022-02-06T02:35:32 < Laurenceb> the timer is never initialised, but its static, so I'm guessing it starts as zero and runs the callback immediately
2022-02-06T02:38:52 < mawk> the system can set the rtc Laurenceb 
2022-02-06T02:38:56 < mawk> it's called hardware clock
2022-02-06T02:40:44 < Laurenceb> sure but ntp should set it automatically
2022-02-06T02:42:14 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2022-02-06T02:42:15 < Laurenceb> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/time/ntp.c#L354
2022-02-06T02:42:24 < Laurenceb> this code should break itself as soon as it starts
2022-02-06T02:42:35 < Laurenceb> theres got to be something I missed
2022-02-06T02:44:57 < Laurenceb> aha I think I found the missing link
2022-02-06T02:44:59 < Laurenceb> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/time/timekeeping.c#L2444
2022-02-06T02:45:20 < Laurenceb> it gets kicked from the rest of the kernel
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2022-02-06T02:47:03 < Laurenceb> oh cool
2022-02-06T02:47:24 < Laurenceb> so this runs as soon as Lunix gets a new time
2022-02-06T02:48:06 < Laurenceb> so if ntp is unsynched at boot then gets network connection I think it sets RTC immediately, then every 11 minutes or so after that
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2022-02-06T02:52:46 < Laurenceb> adjtimex is a syscall, could be called from god knows where...
2022-02-06T02:53:04 < Laurenceb> presumably when ntpd goes to synchronised state it calls it
2022-02-06T02:54:13 < Laurenceb> ok this is pretty cool, so /proc/driver/rtc will be a reliabile indicator of valid time... unless there is an rtc hardware failure
2022-02-06T02:56:03 < Laurenceb> presumably it will dissapear if that happens?
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2022-02-06T03:17:52 < mawk> https://serveur.io/000031b.JPG
2022-02-06T03:17:54 < mawk> https://serveur.io/000032b.JPG
2022-02-06T03:17:59 < mawk> analog pictures of an antivax protest in France
2022-02-06T03:18:11 < mawk> I tried to fix the exposure, they were a bit underexposed
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2022-02-06T03:57:09 < mawk> https://serveur.io/000041_2.JPG https://serveur.io/000040.JPG
2022-02-06T03:57:11 < mawk> roads and cars
2022-02-06T03:57:22 < mawk> place de la république: https://serveur.io/000043.JPG
2022-02-06T03:57:25 < mawk> gare du nord: https://serveur.io/000041.JPG
2022-02-06T04:00:48 < Laurenceb> keeekkkk https://www.selfdefenseguides.info/black-dragon/ripping-out-the-throat.html
2022-02-06T04:00:55 < Laurenceb> the larp level is strong here
2022-02-06T04:01:17 < Laurenceb> >It should be recalled also that this "underhanded" attack was the very method used by Roman soldiers to kill hundreds on the battlefield
2022-02-06T04:01:23 < Laurenceb> kekkk cool story bro
2022-02-06T04:09:59 < Laurenceb> silly idea: relay ip over irc using base64 encoding
2022-02-06T04:10:24 < Laurenceb> udptunnel via literal irc shitposts
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2022-02-06T04:12:13 < Laurenceb> gets around the problem of no free turn servers
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2022-02-06T14:49:02 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzJmhVLlpl4
2022-02-06T14:49:16 < kakium69> cat
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2022-02-06T15:10:29 < Steffanx> Arent you more into Cats like this kakium69 :
2022-02-06T15:10:31 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/vLNayfMsNoI
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2022-02-06T15:41:55 < kakium69> Steffanx: if I had mining permits - yes
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2022-02-06T17:19:35 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/zPUvTP4m
2022-02-06T17:20:43 < Laurenceb> I think I worked it out
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2022-02-06T17:44:50 < Laurenceb> lol found my friend from school on linked
2022-02-06T17:47:53 < Laurenceb> brogrammer at https://www.theaccessgroup.com/en-gb/
2022-02-06T17:47:57 < Laurenceb> absolute cancer
2022-02-06T17:49:00 < Steffanx> inb4 he finds about the shit you produce.
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2022-02-06T22:45:24 < kakium69> how is inverter Laurenceb?
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2022-02-06T23:06:06 < mawk> is there a thing like pcbite but actually not expensive?
2022-02-06T23:07:13 < mawk> I tried to solder tap wires to the "leads" of a tiny qfn32 and I couldn't do it after many attempts
2022-02-06T23:07:19 < mawk> as I'm a shaky junkie
2022-02-06T23:08:39 < qyx> you should do more drugs
2022-02-06T23:09:10 < mawk> why
2022-02-06T23:09:18 < mawk> that will make me shake more
2022-02-06T23:09:25 < mawk> unless it's betablockers
2022-02-06T23:09:27 < mawk> good idea
2022-02-06T23:09:33 < mawk> let's find some propranolol 
2022-02-06T23:09:44 < mawk> it's what sharpshooters use for doping to shake less
2022-02-06T23:11:09 < BrainDamage> benzos
2022-02-06T23:11:17 < BrainDamage> they use benzos
2022-02-06T23:25:00 < kakium69> mawk: smart
2022-02-06T23:25:00 < qyx> oh we have some
2022-02-06T23:26:02 < kakium69> that mawk guy can use chemicals to alter his physical condition to suit purpose
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2022-02-06T23:47:45 < Steffanx> Persuade your employer to invest in tools for you mr mawk
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2022-02-06T23:55:51 < mawk> what BrainDamage 
2022-02-06T23:55:51 < mawk> no
2022-02-06T23:56:16 < mawk> propranolol to lower heart rate and reduce shaking
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--- Day changed Mon Feb 07 2022
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2022-02-07T00:08:39 < kakium69> heart actually shakes the whole body
2022-02-07T00:08:42 < kakium69> constantly
2022-02-07T00:08:45 < kakium69> wild
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2022-02-07T01:07:32 < mawk> yeah kakium69 
2022-02-07T01:07:47 < mawk> it's for muh hobby Steffanx 
2022-02-07T01:07:54 < mawk> I'm trying to hack the ikea nfc lock
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2022-02-07T01:08:17 < mawk> I soldered wires to uart and swd, but I couldn't to spi of the nfc chip because too small
2022-02-07T01:09:05 < mawk> the chip is probably locked to level 3 so I'll maybe swap it out with a pin compatible one to put whatever I want on it
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2022-02-07T01:09:19 < mawk> then I have a readymade pcb with lock motor driver and PCB antenna 
2022-02-07T01:09:24 < mawk> NFC antenna*
2022-02-07T01:10:00 < mawk> I built a wooden box to attach the lock to and put secret stuff in
2022-02-07T01:10:09 < mawk> metal box would've been better but it blocks the nfc magic
2022-02-07T01:13:46 < qyx> what will you hide inside
2022-02-07T01:13:59 < mawk> super secret stuff 
2022-02-07T01:14:06 < mawk> like the letters my mistress sent me
2022-02-07T01:17:33 < mawk> maybe I can hide the nfc antenna outside the metal box under paint
2022-02-07T01:17:46 < mawk> but what if someone connects wires to it
2022-02-07T01:18:06 < mawk> and shocks my tiny pcb, or tries nfc keys at the speed of light 
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2022-02-07T01:22:20 < mawk> I broke some traces on the nfc antenna so I bodged some wire to repair it and it amazingly still works 
2022-02-07T01:22:25 < mawk> I thought RF was mega sensitive 
2022-02-07T01:23:45 < qyx> yeah I would glue it from the outside
2022-02-07T01:23:59 < qyx> but that doesn't mean it will work
2022-02-07T01:24:03 < mawk> https://imgur.com/a/V9IFEUb
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2022-02-07T01:28:01 < mawk> the lock uses switches for motor position feedback
2022-02-07T01:28:08 < mawk> to know if it's stuck or something 
2022-02-07T01:28:25 < mawk> and when batteries die it unlocks
2022-02-07T01:28:27 < mawk> normally 
2022-02-07T01:28:33 < mawk> as there's no key override
2022-02-07T01:29:20 < qyx> you could put them from the bottom
2022-02-07T01:30:53 < mawk> what do you mean
2022-02-07T01:30:57 < mawk> have external batteries?
2022-02-07T01:31:13 < mawk> the lock is inside the box
2022-02-07T01:31:46 < mawk> hidden, and you wave a card around some part of the box and it unlocks 
2022-02-07T01:45:25 < qyx> yes externally accessible
2022-02-07T01:48:51 < jadew> I have covid
2022-02-07T01:49:24 < jadew> already 1 or two days in, not sure exactly
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2022-02-07T01:58:09 < mawk> what incubator period jadew ?
2022-02-07T01:58:14 < mawk> incubation
2022-02-07T01:59:43 < jadew> unclear
2022-02-07T02:00:02 < jadew> either 3 to 5 days or 1
2022-02-07T02:00:15 < mawk> more likely 3 to 5
2022-02-07T02:00:20 < mawk> it can't be 1 day
2022-02-07T02:00:30 < mawk> if it's 3 it's likely Omicron 
2022-02-07T02:01:24 < jadew> I think it is beacause my son had the red eyes
2022-02-07T02:01:32 < jadew> *because
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2022-02-07T02:03:07 < mawk>  wait you have a son?
2022-02-07T02:03:10 < mawk> since when
2022-02-07T02:03:22 < mawk> if your son had red eyes it's because he was smoking weed
2022-02-07T02:03:34 < jadew> he's 8
2022-02-07T02:03:51 < jadew> and he knows drugs are bad
2022-02-07T02:05:39 < mawk> wait 4 more years
2022-02-07T02:05:41 < mawk> and he will start
2022-02-07T02:06:04 < mawk> it only takes a bit of curiosity and bad timing 
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2022-02-07T02:54:45 < Laurenceb> keeekk wtf
2022-02-07T02:54:56 < Laurenceb> >Milo Yiannopolous has kids
2022-02-07T02:55:09 < Laurenceb> Darwin moar liek Darfail 
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2022-02-07T03:04:40 < jadew> Laurenceb, I heard he's ex-gay
2022-02-07T03:04:50 < jadew> and doing some sort of rehabilitation
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2022-02-07T03:09:34 < jadew> anyone has the omnivise?
2022-02-07T03:25:37 < jadew> I ordered one, I'll know what it's like in about 6 weeks
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2022-02-07T03:49:55 < kakium69> nope
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2022-02-07T08:13:05 < benishor> jadew: have a speedy recovery
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2022-02-07T08:27:11 < benishor> what a waste of resources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sdw_YPblws&t=21s&ab_channel=VolosProjects
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2022-02-07T10:49:56 < steve__> in kicad, is a .lib and .mod kinda the same thing?
2022-02-07T10:50:53 < jpa-> .lib is for schematic, .mod is for pcb
2022-02-07T10:51:35 < jpa-> nowadays (kicad 6) .lib is called .kicad_sym and .mod is called .kicad_mod
2022-02-07T10:52:25 < steve__> kicad is confusing to me in that there is no strong single point of truth for symbols/footprints.  a schematic file or pcb file will show all the detail, like it's somehow cached in the file.
2022-02-07T10:54:49 < steve__> is the common pattern to do a $PROJECT/libs directory, which is filled with .lib and .mod ?
2022-02-07T10:55:52 < jpa-> yes, i usually make a kicad_libs directory where i add any project-specific libraries
2022-02-07T10:56:21 < jpa-> with kicad 6 the symbols and footprints are also stored in the .kicad_sch and .kicad_pcb files so that you can transfer them to other computers easily
2022-02-07T10:56:50 < jpa-> (and also so that if you edit a symbol in your library, it doesn't automatically update and break all your old schematics)
2022-02-07T10:57:35 < steve__> yeah I see the benefit of that, but it can be very confusing, eg. multiple people working on the same project
2022-02-07T10:58:04 < jpa-> what's confusing about it?
2022-02-07T10:58:46 < jpa-> but in general, kicad does not have great tools for simultaneously editing the same files - while the files are somewhat mergeable, it gets messy
2022-02-07T10:58:51 < steve__> why do they even have .mod and .lib files when there's a copy of it in the sch and pcb files anyway.  it's a useless layer of indirection
2022-02-07T10:59:20 < jpa-> how else would you add a new part to your schematic, if there is nothing to select it from?
2022-02-07T10:59:37 < jpa-> the library is the newest versions, the schematic and board files are the version it was when you added it
2022-02-07T11:00:03 < steve__> you would  add/select it from a specified file, and if that file is not there then the project is broken
2022-02-07T11:00:23 < jpa-> yeah, that was how kicad 5 worked for schematics, and it totally sucks
2022-02-07T11:01:08 < jpa-> especially for the system-wide libraries - they could never be updated in non-compatible way because otherwise every schematic would break
2022-02-07T11:01:28 < steve__> ok, i'll have to think more.  I'm thinking of it from a software/systems perspective, moreso than as a EE guy
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2022-02-07T11:02:28 < steve__> system-wide libraries doesnt make sense to me... system as in root file system on some host?
2022-02-07T11:02:39 < jpa-> system as in those that come with kicad
2022-02-07T11:02:51 < jpa-> thousands of parts ranging from resistors to ICs
2022-02-07T11:03:14 < steve__> one of the first things i did was get all that noise out of my way, and look at the "project specific libraries" tab there
2022-02-07T11:03:35 < jpa-> you mean you redraw even resistor symbols yourself? :D
2022-02-07T11:03:54 < steve__> not in that case, because the symbol can be copied over
2022-02-07T11:04:50 < steve__> i "created" libraries basically just by copying symbols and footprints, which takes nonzero timee but it's clean, it's only the project specifics and nothing else
2022-02-07T11:04:55 < jpa-> and just a few lines above you said you don't like the copying of symbols :D
2022-02-07T11:05:16 < steve__> not the same copying ; )
2022-02-07T11:05:24 < jpa-> exactly same copying IMO
2022-02-07T11:05:41 < jpa-> except with kicad 6 it happens automatically so there is no reason to waste your time on it
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2022-02-07T11:07:05 < steve__> copying a 0603 from SnapEDA or the pre-baked-libs, into a "collection" that I maintain myself.  is not the same thing as the fact that a .kicad_sch and a .kicad_pcb file somehow have copies of all the symbol/footprint they reference.  totally different things
2022-02-07T11:08:02 < jpa-> weird way to do things, but if it suits you, go ahead
2022-02-07T11:08:32 < jpa-> are all the other people you work with doing it the same way?
2022-02-07T11:09:31 < steve__> haha i'd say the same to you.  no, I can only speak for myself.  I'll consider any approach
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2022-02-07T11:10:36 < jpa-> AFAIK the normal way is just to let the kicad-provided libraries be there and use them :)
2022-02-07T11:11:39 < steve__> i do firmware moreso than EE, I literally just started using kicad (6) from eagle a month ago.. i haven't picked up the patterns yet
2022-02-07T11:12:08 < steve__> but i can say eagle does not work that way.  in eagle, if the library file is not there, the project is broken
2022-02-07T11:12:33 < jpa-> yeah, and so was kicad 5 - which lead to workarounds like you describe
2022-02-07T11:13:08 < jpa-> though usually the approach was to just copy  myproject-cache.lib  to   myproject.lib   after the schematic is mostly done, and use that as the project library then
2022-02-07T11:13:21 < jpa-> but with kicad 6 i see no reason to do that either
2022-02-07T11:13:24 < steve__> but I like that the project breaks in that case.  i'd prefer that over having an ambiguity between a footprint in a separatte file vs the one in the .pcb file
2022-02-07T11:14:02 < jpa-> kicad allows editing footprints per-footprint anyway, and has done so for a long time - they were always stored in the pcb file
2022-02-07T11:14:19 < steve__> yeah see I don't like that lol
2022-02-07T11:14:35 < jpa-> i don't think there is ambiguity, the footprints and symbols are now *always* in the schematic/pcb file
2022-02-07T11:14:53 < jpa-> you can think of the "add symbol" dialog as "copy symbol from system library to my project"
2022-02-07T11:14:55 < steve__> then what is the point of .lib and .mod files?
2022-02-07T11:15:02 < jpa-> they are the place you copy symbols from
2022-02-07T11:16:46 < steve__> ok I see some value in that.  it works out bettter when symbols/footprints are static, never updatd by yourself
2022-02-07T11:17:51 < steve__> that is a totally different paradigm to me, hah
2022-02-07T11:18:24 < jpa-> there is also "update symbol from library" and "update all symbols from libraries" dialogs
2022-02-07T11:19:00 < jpa-> which will show what symbols were updated so you can double-check what changed
2022-02-07T11:19:20 < steve__> yeah, I think I get it now, i thoughtt it was doing something else, but somehow still got the results I wanted 
2022-02-07T11:20:05 < steve__> so "update symbol from library" et. al. , will modify the kicad_sch and kicad_pcb files?
2022-02-07T11:20:50 < steve__> lol its funny how off I was but it still worked fine
2022-02-07T11:26:15 < jpa-> yeah
2022-02-07T11:26:34 < jpa-> update symbol is same as if you were to re-add the symbol from the library to the same place in schematic/pcb
2022-02-07T11:26:56 < jpa-> (well that, and it keeps the name & other settings of course)
2022-02-07T11:42:22 < steve__> thanks brah
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2022-02-07T11:43:53 < ventYl> did you notice?
2022-02-07T11:47:04 < steve__> your hair?
2022-02-07T11:54:42 < ventYl> nope, lolrence came and there was no cringe
2022-02-07T11:55:02 < ventYl> my hair is increasingly hard to be noticed
2022-02-07T12:02:56 < benishor> I use git submodules with libraries
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2022-02-07T12:03:47 < benishor> so far I haven't had problems with this approach. it allows you to pull lib updates at your liking
2022-02-07T12:04:15 < benishor> or even have branches which depend on other library branches
2022-02-07T12:04:31 < benishor> you know, the usual goodies git submodules bring to the table
2022-02-07T12:05:00 < jpa-> like, breaking everything when the other repository is removed? :)
2022-02-07T12:05:40 < benishor> not if you control it :)
2022-02-07T12:05:44 < benishor> which you should
2022-02-07T12:05:56 < jpa-> yeah, sounds like spending a lot of time with no benefit
2022-02-07T12:06:12 < benishor> and you don't break everything when the other repository is removed; you can simply upload your local tree to a different remote
2022-02-07T12:06:22 < benishor> but I may be biased since I was a git trainer
2022-02-07T12:06:29 < steve__> kicad libraries?
2022-02-07T12:06:46 < benishor> anyways, I use git to work on common kicad projects with a friend and so far it worked out
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2022-02-07T12:07:07 < benishor> custom kicad libraries, yes
2022-02-07T12:08:30 < steve__> benishor do you have an example to share?  filetree, .gitignore, etc
2022-02-07T12:09:42 < steve__> what is the workflow when your friend pushes a commit to a library-submodule?
2022-02-07T12:10:11 < benishor> steve__: nothing fancy really
2022-02-07T12:10:15 < benishor> .gitignore: https://pastebin.com/FSASKnCe
2022-02-07T12:10:47 < benishor> create a normal kicad project and in the project root: git submodule add https://github.com/user/librepo.git libs/librepo
2022-02-07T12:11:05 < benishor> workflow is exactly the same as with any other git project with submodules
2022-02-07T12:11:20 < benishor> you update the code (symbols/footprints in this case), you make a commit, you push it to remote
2022-02-07T12:11:35 < benishor> making sure you either rebase or merge before you push
2022-02-07T12:11:48 < benishor> so that you will integrate any new changes you haven't fetched yet
2022-02-07T12:12:10 < benishor> once you updated the lib submodule, you need to make git aware that you want to use the new version
2022-02-07T12:12:19 < benishor> so you simply add it to the staging area: git add libs/librepo
2022-02-07T12:12:30 < benishor> and commit/push that
2022-02-07T12:12:41 < steve__> in kicad tho.  friend pushes, you merge, then in kicad you..... tools -> update symbols from library ?
2022-02-07T12:12:51 < benishor> sure
2022-02-07T12:13:03 < benishor> if he happens to change existing symbols
2022-02-07T12:13:26 < benishor> and that's where communication and descriptive commit messages help
2022-02-07T12:13:39 < benishor> not stuff like "qqqq" or "stuff"
2022-02-07T12:14:15 < steve__> yeah that sounds good to me.  at first glance it seems like kicad files are nearly human readable, ie. git would be good at it
2022-02-07T12:14:20 < benishor> I also choose to ignore from git the kicad backups folder too
2022-02-07T12:14:26 < benishor> yes, text files are awesome
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2022-02-07T12:14:55 < benishor> one problem you may run into is to view diffs in a semantic manner
2022-02-07T12:15:06 < benishor> but there are some ways around those
2022-02-07T12:15:29 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMC0USSsbDE&ab_channel=LeandroHeck
2022-02-07T12:15:30 < steve__> i'll take that over non-diffable binaries every time
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2022-02-07T12:16:10 < benishor> https://cadlab.io/ also does a good job at viewing diffs for both schematics and layouts
2022-02-07T12:16:31 < benishor> but then you need to share your project
2022-02-07T12:17:01 < steve__> is that yours?
2022-02-07T12:17:04 < benishor> afair kicad has meaningful diff in their plan
2022-02-07T12:17:08 < benishor> cadlab.io? not mine
2022-02-07T12:17:19 < benishor> I just tried it out for a bit
2022-02-07T12:17:31 < steve__> you are not Mr. Heck
2022-02-07T12:17:52 < benishor> no, just an obscure romanian coder
2022-02-07T12:18:12 < benishor> I assume you were thinking of ben heck :)
2022-02-07T12:18:28 < steve__> no the video
2022-02-07T12:18:38 < benishor> ah, no no. that's not me
2022-02-07T12:18:58 < benishor> although I like his gnome desktop and choice of colors
2022-02-07T12:19:35 < benishor> but really, kicad has gone a long way and exciting things will come
2022-02-07T12:21:18 < steve__> yes, good positive thinking
2022-02-07T12:22:55 < steve__> now... is there a way to change a property of multiple like-elements...
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2022-02-07T12:24:17 < benishor> check the edit submenu
2022-02-07T12:24:38 < benishor> edit text and graphics or change symbols
2022-02-07T12:24:56 < benishor> if that doesn't serve you, I'm sure guys in #kicad can help out
2022-02-07T12:40:24 < jpa-> the "edit symbol fields" grid button on toolbar is also useful for some edits
2022-02-07T12:41:10 < jpa-> (also in "Tools" menu)
2022-02-07T13:02:13 < benishor> this channel is pretty awesome. filled with savvy people
2022-02-07T13:02:17 < benishor> big up
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2022-02-07T13:22:21 < karlp> we just keep all projects and libraries and models in one hw repo.
2022-02-07T13:22:48 < steve__> just a bunch of dongs in here really
2022-02-07T13:23:23 < karlp> so hw/3d has a (currently flat) pile of custom/non-shareably licensed step files, 
2022-02-07T13:23:35 < karlp> h2/eagle has a bunch of old cam/dru/lbr/scr shits
2022-02-07T13:23:40 < karlp> s/h2/hw/
2022-02-07T13:24:05 < karlp> hw/kicad has company symbols and footprints
2022-02-07T13:24:23 < steve__> all that in one repo?
2022-02-07T13:24:25 < karlp> hw/freecad has templates and shit, hw/spice has any models,
2022-02-07T13:24:37 < karlp> and hw/hw/project-1..1000
2022-02-07T13:24:39 < karlp> sure.
2022-02-07T13:25:01 < karlp> it's only like half a gig.
2022-02-07T13:25:37 < steve__> no separation per-project, per-client, etc?
2022-02-07T13:25:53 < karlp> and that's not even all in git, because that's just "du" so it includesbackups and temp gerbers and any other shit
2022-02-07T13:26:10 < karlp> per client no, we're our own company doing work for ourselves
2022-02-07T13:26:24 < karlp> per project can be kept in the project itself, but... to what end?
2022-02-07T13:26:39 < karlp> adding a new symbol or a footprint can just go into the company library.
2022-02-07T13:26:49 < karlp> why would I want to fragment that?
2022-02-07T13:27:07 < steve__> i agree monolith is good if all work falls under that umbrella
2022-02-07T13:27:08 < karlp> make it harder to track, harder to find the "latest" version, 
2022-02-07T13:27:16 < steve__> flat monolith
2022-02-07T13:27:28 < karlp> the only downside is that in theory, our repo could get "big"
2022-02-07T13:27:35 < karlp> but really, git can handle that just fine
2022-02-07T13:27:41 < srk> how do you handle compatibility? i.e. new kicad
2022-02-07T13:27:53 < karlp> srk: company policy to change together :)
2022-02-07T13:28:19 < karlp> so we're currently on 6.0, and will stay there for a while.
2022-02-07T13:28:25 < srk> so you update all footprints and older projects?
2022-02-07T13:28:46 < karlp> no, we've been on 5.99 for long enough that, as jpa said earlier, sch/pcb are self contained,
2022-02-07T13:28:55 < srk> ah, cool
2022-02-07T13:28:57 < karlp> and kicad is happy to open old stuff,
2022-02-07T13:30:05 < srk> my things done in 4 were bit broken with 5, always getting compatibility dialog. so I've skipped 5..
2022-02-07T13:38:50 < benishor> even big companies like google go with monorepo
2022-02-07T13:39:06 < benishor> it's a matter of context and taste
2022-02-07T13:39:53 < benishor> people who don't like submodules sometimes opt for subtree
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2022-02-07T13:44:49 < karlp> yeah, my colleague is very much a "I can sort of sometimes make github desktop do the right thing" so submodules were no gain for us.
2022-02-07T13:47:16 < jpa-> i've always found submodules cumbersome even in things they are supposed to be good at, such as updating the submodules or committing to upstream from a submodule
2022-02-07T13:47:31 < qyx> interesting, I like them
2022-02-07T13:47:50 < karlp> I like them more than having an env var or a "library must be in ../some/path"
2022-02-07T13:48:09 < karlp> but yeah, especially when you're working actively on the submodule at the same time as the "main" project it can sometimes be a pain...
2022-02-07T13:48:30 < karlp> but, better than the alternatives...
2022-02-07T13:48:48 < qyx> the submodule itself doesn't cause the pain
2022-02-07T13:48:58 < qyx> the pain is caused by the compination of submodules, github and pull requests
2022-02-07T13:49:23 < qyx> if you have main git repo and a submodule git repo, you can work on both and commit and push and all that
2022-02-07T13:50:18 < qyx> the first issue is authentication, you want submodules to be fetchable over http/s
2022-02-07T13:50:29 < qyx> but you cannot push over https
2022-02-07T13:50:37 < karlp> yes you can...
2022-02-07T13:50:42 < karlp> lurn to git...
2022-02-07T13:50:47 < qyx> yes you can
2022-02-07T13:51:11 < qyx> I called it an issue
2022-02-07T13:51:54 < qyx> or you have some clever way of managing password auth and all that shit without hassle?
2022-02-07T13:52:08 < karlp> you can have it just save it in your git config...
2022-02-07T13:52:33 < karlp> or just use git@ why do you need https anyway?
2022-02-07T13:52:44 < karlp> I don't get the "submodules must be over https"
2022-02-07T13:52:58 < qyx> also github removed password auth afaik
2022-02-07T13:53:15 < karlp> yeah, but they added "tokens" so .... same thing.
2022-02-07T13:53:56 < qyx> because you don't want a public repo to fetch submodules with git@
2022-02-07T13:56:07 < qyx> I am just grumpy today
2022-02-07T13:57:33 < steve__> submodules isn't actually a thing.  it's a tiny key-value store, that tracks commit SHAs of other repos.  one could easily get the exact result DIY
2022-02-07T13:58:05 < karlp> yes, but it's easier to use the submodule commands than manually cloning things int oplace...
2022-02-07T13:58:21 < steve__> right. it's merely a convenience
2022-02-07T13:58:37 < benishor> qyx: you can do url rewrites in git
2022-02-07T13:58:39 < karlp> submodules or "using multiple overlaid repos" is ~identical as far as comparing agsinst monorepo.
2022-02-07T13:58:39 < jpa-> i usually just pull my hair out and despair whenever my project has a dependency, then proceed to just include that in the tree
2022-02-07T13:58:48 < benishor> and force all https:// repo links to go through ssh
2022-02-07T13:59:35 < steve__> yes of course, if you're committed to monorepo, go all the way and enjoy those benefits
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2022-02-07T14:05:47 < steve__> a branch on a monorepo is effectively the same as a submodule
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2022-02-07T14:11:19 < karlp> for some uses I guess maybe?
2022-02-07T14:11:35 < karlp> I onyl see a submodule as useful if it's being used in mutiple disparate places, 
2022-02-07T14:12:02 < karlp> if it's just "logical separation" then just monorepo...
2022-02-07T14:25:43 < steve__> exactly, the definition of monorepo is that it's all there, not in multiple other places
2022-02-07T14:31:45 < benishor> one more distinction: in a monorepo you always use the latest of any module
2022-02-07T14:32:21 < benishor> submodules allow you to depend on older revisions of a module if such a need exists
2022-02-07T14:38:05 < zyp> hrm, writing pre-C++20 C++ is almost worse than writing C
2022-02-07T14:38:24 < zyp> because parts of STL I'm used to having are not added yet
2022-02-07T14:38:35 < steve__> if you're careful/follow the rules, you can get that level of flexibility with a monorepo
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2022-02-07T20:07:14 < octorian> So I'm working on making my device handle USB suspend correctly, which means it needs to be able to go into (and out of) a very low power "suspended" mode.  But I'm also using a watchdog, for when its running (currently IWDG) which presents a problem.  Right now, it seems like there are two solutions:
2022-02-07T20:07:45 < jpa-> 1) reboot before you go to sleep
2022-02-07T20:07:52 < jpa-> 2) periodically wake up to reset watchdog
2022-02-07T20:08:04 < qyx> thanks
2022-02-07T20:08:20 < octorian> 1) Use a low-power not-exactly-suspended mode like LPRUN (I'm on an L0), which would take a fair bit of work to make sure I shut down and start up peripherals correctly.
2022-02-07T20:08:55 < octorian> 2) Switch to the WWDG and just stop/suspend.  Though the WWDG has a much shorter maximum timeout, which I'd need to be able to deal with.
2022-02-07T20:09:35 < jpa-> can you even turn off L0 IWDG without reboot?
2022-02-07T20:09:42 < octorian> No
2022-02-07T20:09:43 < qyx> no
2022-02-07T20:09:46 < jpa-> yeah
2022-02-07T20:09:54 < qyx> we said no
2022-02-07T20:10:15 < jpa-> and if your device is bus-powered, why bother with watchdog anyway? user will just disconnect and reconnect if it crashes
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2022-02-07T20:10:32 < qyx> I like jpa's second solution, thats not that much of a hassle
2022-02-07T20:10:58 < qyx> and also the last one
2022-02-07T20:11:17 < octorian> jpa's second solution isn't really any better than my first solution, if I want to make sure I never exceed my current budget when "suspended".
2022-02-07T20:12:38 < qyx> your host will not even notice if your supply is properly decoupled and you make a very short wakeup
2022-02-07T20:13:45 < qyx> just wakeup by lptim or rtc and go back to sleep after reseting the watchdog
2022-02-07T20:14:05 < jpa-> but it remains true that you need to turn off peripherals to get sleep current low
2022-02-07T20:14:38 < jpa-> sometimes rebooting is the easiest way to do that :)
2022-02-07T20:17:15 < jpa-> but yeah, one of the <200kHz LPRUN modes is pretty equivalent to sleep modes in supply current, as far as USB goes
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2022-02-07T20:18:33 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.1d4.us/pic/media%2FFK-3IPMXMAY8IZv.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-02-07T20:18:39 < Laurenceb_> virgin versus chad
2022-02-07T20:18:49 < Laurenceb_> but the chad is also an asshole
2022-02-07T20:18:53 < karlp> l4 on my desk is doing ~120uA average with lptim based tickless idle freertos, using lpsleep, so things can keep running.
2022-02-07T20:18:55 < octorian> I think the benefit of "stop" or "standby" mode is that it basically shuts everything down for me, and it all comes back once I get the USB wakeup interrupt.
2022-02-07T20:19:19 < jpa-> octorian: hmm, i don't think it does that
2022-02-07T20:19:23 < karlp> if stop modes work, then yeah, use them, lprun/lpsleep is more for when you need periphs that stop working in those modes.
2022-02-07T20:19:32 < jpa-> well, standby does bring things back, because it forces a reset
2022-02-07T20:21:27 < octorian> Yeah, I've had a lot of luck with "stop" mode and it does do that.
2022-02-07T20:21:35 < jpa-> octorian: but the easy way to just shut down everything is to do NVIC_SystemReset() and then at start of your main(), check some flag to see if you should go to standby/stop
2022-02-07T20:22:11 < jpa-> if stop mode does that for you, you can just set up RTC to wake you up from stop mode periodically
2022-02-07T20:22:56 < qyx> karlp: did you do a custom sleep magic?
2022-02-07T20:23:06 < qyx> you mentioned something working out of box earlier
2022-02-07T20:23:30 < jpa-> something has worked out-of-box for karlp? that's news!
2022-02-07T20:24:28 < karlp> well, I've got all the pieces building back up one by one,
2022-02-07T20:24:34 < karlp> and got some uninterrupted time...
2022-02-07T20:24:53 < karlp> so I've now got the stop modes and the lptimer freertos impl working I got off the ninterwebnet, 
2022-02-07T20:24:54 < qyx> uninterrupted time is only half of the success
2022-02-07T20:25:22 < karlp> so now all that's left is too port it back to the wb, and see what's still missing for cpu2....
2022-02-07T20:25:27 < BrainDamage> mawk: NFC is 10 MHZ, and pretty much not RF, in fact, NFC is explicitly not in the condition of what most people call RF ( size comparable with wavelength )
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2022-02-07T20:26:58 < karlp> I'm pretty sure I shoudl perhaps try and let the lpuart fifo drain, but yolo, that's just some garbage trailer
2022-02-07T20:27:48 < qyx> heh
2022-02-07T20:28:24 < karlp> stop mode with lptimer seems to work too, but i'd hve to tweak the tasks a little to be able to see it stably...
2022-02-07T20:29:46 < octorian> Another oddity I've run into is that when I do to into "stop", my device's current drops to 0.35mA, but if I press any button on it (toggling a GPIO that it otherwise won't respond to) the current consumption jumps to 0.9mA.  I think I also saw this behavior with standby mode.
2022-02-07T20:31:08 < karlp> is it still running properly? or has it lost it's mind?
2022-02-07T20:31:20 < karlp> failing ot restore clocks properly can do weird things.
2022-02-07T20:31:28 < karlp> like you've woken, but not actually running properly.
2022-02-07T20:31:44 < karlp> and you need to unplug/plug to make sure the debug chunks are properly powered off.
2022-02-07T20:33:48 < octorian> It might be NVIC related.  Just added code to explicitly disable the relevant EXTI IRQs before going into "stop", and now the jump is only 0.1mA.  Might be more chunks I need to explicitly toggle to catch the rest of it.
2022-02-07T20:36:13 < karlp> it can be infuriating chasing it allll
2022-02-07T20:36:46 < karlp> ok. dinner time, I guess tonight's project is to try and move it back to wb again...
2022-02-07T20:39:52 < jpa-> it's also very fragile, you add new peripheral usage in one place, and have to remember to deinit it for sleeping
2022-02-07T20:40:06 < jpa-> if you don't have a huge amount of state to keep, it is much easier to go the reset route
2022-02-07T20:40:32 < karlp> ^^
2022-02-07T20:40:36 < karlp> same for bootloaders.
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2022-02-07T20:41:27 < octorian> I am curious how much power I'd draw if I did wake up just long enough to poke a register.  Might be worth measuring.
2022-02-07T20:41:52 < jpa-> datasheet gives you wakeup time, multiply that by the current
2022-02-07T20:42:15 < octorian> Well, from the outside of the device (given that it has capacitors, regulators, etc)
2022-02-07T20:42:44 < octorian> With going the reset route, I'm wondering if there's a risk of a race condition if USB "un-suspends" between the reset being triggered and the peripheral being reinitialized.
2022-02-07T20:43:10 < jpa-> current * time = coloumbs, divide that by your capacitance and you get volts, divide that by input resistance and you get current
2022-02-07T20:43:42 < jpa-> yeah, not sure about that
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2022-02-07T20:54:58 < octorian> Okay, I think I'm understanding better what was happening with that GPIO nonsense I mentioned.
2022-02-07T20:55:52 < octorian> I think its actually waking the thing up from STOP mode, but with very slow clocks so power is still really low.  That means if I used the RTC or LPTIM to periodically kick the IWDG and return to stop, I might be okay on power.  I'll still test that to be sure, but this is promising.
2022-02-07T20:56:02 < octorian> I guess the next question is whether to use the RTC or the LPTIM.
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2022-02-07T23:01:38 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/smof92/the_netherlands_for_beginners/
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2022-02-07T23:19:11 < Steffanx> Idk.
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2022-02-07T23:41:50 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/nM0b41A.jpeg
2022-02-07T23:41:57 < mawk> photo taken with lomochrome purple film
--- Day changed Tue Feb 08 2022
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2022-02-08T00:09:24 < karlp> UsageFault due to executing an undefined instruction
2022-02-08T00:09:26 < karlp> doh
2022-02-08T00:10:16 < karlp> getting it sometimes on starting freertos.
2022-02-08T00:10:58 < Steffanx> Nice Italian flag, mawk 
2022-02-08T00:11:08 < karlp> should shelve this, even though g4 is already ~mostly working :)
2022-02-08T00:12:03 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: irish
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2022-02-08T00:12:53 < Steffanx> It could be red as well 
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2022-02-08T00:44:28 < karlp> nice, ported the l4 and g4 to wb, 1mA, instead of 100uA
2022-02-08T00:44:53 < karlp> but at least now I'm happy that the general frame of it is correct, now it's just the cpu2 dancing.... I hope...
2022-02-08T00:48:19 < karlp> not going to try and crush this tonight, will justmake me unhappy again I think :)
2022-02-08T00:49:11 < zyp> same code draws ten times as much on wb as on l4 or g4?
2022-02-08T00:49:12 < karlp> octorian: rtc wakeup/alarm is pretty well documented by st, andworks into lowest modes, and is available ~everywhere, but you can't really easily tell how long you actually slept..
2022-02-08T00:49:20 < karlp> 10 times as much on wb as on l4. :(
2022-02-08T00:49:47 < karlp> I've not explicitly requested cpu2 to boot, so I'm a bit annoyed that I have to deal with it, but presumably it's preventing low power modes.
2022-02-08T00:49:59 < octorian> Yeah, I'm going down the RTC route for now.  Making good progress, but not completely done yet.
2022-02-08T00:50:27 < karlp> lptimer you can read it's actual counter value and see how long you realyl slept for, so it's what I've got, 
2022-02-08T00:50:33 < octorian> I think the fiddly part is going back into STOP after an RTC wakeup interrupt.  Unless I'm missing something, the only low-power mode you can return to from inside an ISR is sleep.
2022-02-08T00:50:34 < karlp> but, as you can tell, it's not .... all... workignyet ;)
2022-02-08T00:50:37 < zyp> weird, it'd make sense for it to just start with everything disabled
2022-02-08T00:50:52 < karlp> zyp: yeah, it's why I've been having so many headaches with the wb low power.
2022-02-08T00:51:01 < karlp> st demo code will happily do <100uA with BTLE running
2022-02-08T00:51:27 < octorian> So I think I need to put the code to re-enter stop mode in a loop that runs outside of an ISR, which the related USB wakeup ISR will flip a flag to break the loop of.
2022-02-08T00:51:30 < octorian> (or something like that)
2022-02-08T00:51:40 < karlp> but, now I have happy/solid l4 code, I'm prepared to go back into it again, see what I'm missing.
2022-02-08T00:52:13 < karlp> zyp: g4 kidna works withmy tree, but I was getting some weird exceptions and not entirely reliable behaviour, so I shelved it.
2022-02-08T00:52:31 < karlp> zyp: I'm concerned about how wordy it is to maintain the memory size variations with the current laks yaml style too.
2022-02-08T00:53:11 < karlp> I started hacking on the l4 tree, to make it load different stubs for different variants, and then re-load a shared memory map/rcc shits, but it was getting gross quickly
2022-02-08T00:53:31 < karlp> Ikinda miss the devices.data in locm3, which _just_ handles the mem sizes...
2022-02-08T00:53:48 < karlp> anywya, I reckon it's time for something else...
2022-02-08T00:54:23 < zyp> there's probably room for improvement
2022-02-08T00:55:40 < karlp> yah, Idecided I was yak shaving and avoiding my actual work, so shelved it :)
2022-02-08T00:56:09 < karlp> was pondering doing a "proper" separation so you could have different rcc enable bits and things, but it was looking like a lot of work.
2022-02-08T00:56:27 < karlp> also, I'd kinda like aliases for registers.
2022-02-08T00:56:47 < karlp> like, RTC-v3 is _almost_ name compatible with v2, even thought he memory map is totally different.
2022-02-08T00:56:47 < zyp> aliases how?
2022-02-08T00:56:56 < karlp> most of the bits are the same, in the "same" registers
2022-02-08T00:57:08 < karlp> but v3 calls one ICSR and v2 calls it ISR for instance.
2022-02-08T00:57:20 < zyp> ah
2022-02-08T00:57:29 < zyp> you could union that
2022-02-08T00:57:43 < zyp> anonymous union should do what you want
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2022-02-08T00:57:58 < karlp> like that: even just staying with microchip, samD, samE would
2022-02-08T00:58:04 < zyp> like SPIx->DR vs SPIx->DR8
2022-02-08T00:58:05 < karlp> no, like #include <pwr/pwr.h>
2022-02-08T00:58:08 < karlp> wat
2022-02-08T00:58:15 < karlp> where's my paste buffer?!
2022-02-08T00:58:18 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/l2-rtc-wakeup/blob/main/src/main.cpp#L174-L184
2022-02-08T00:58:21 < karlp> like that.
2022-02-08T00:58:48 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-08T00:59:10 < zyp> different UART versions have annoyances like that as well, DR vs TDR/RDR
2022-02-08T00:59:20 < karlp> yeh.
2022-02-08T00:59:51 < karlp> it's also a tradeoff of things like, "this type is a super set, but it offers peoples regs that aren't really there..... and is that a problem?"
2022-02-08T01:00:26 < zyp> the other way of handling it is abstracting away the differences in the wrapper
2022-02-08T01:00:32 < karlp> like I was printingout *$mmio_ptr(EXTI) on g4, and it was showing me all sorts of set bits, but... they were in regs that aren't defined on g4, but I declared it to be l4 style, which is a superset...
2022-02-08T01:00:47 < karlp> yeah, I was starting to just hink about where to put some of this stuff
2022-02-08T01:00:55 < karlp> currently, ~zero wrappers, just register definitions :)
2022-02-08T01:02:41 < zyp> e.g. NVIC and CLIC both have compatible enable() methods
2022-02-08T01:03:11 < zyp> and then there's GPIO v1 vs v2, of course
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2022-02-08T01:11:51 < zyp> karlp, did you check the errata sheet? if you're using stop2 mode, apparently the HSE might accidentally turn on
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2022-02-08T05:22:19 < octorian> Well, I think I got that crazy IWDG+STOP+RTC_WakeUp nonsense from this morning all working.  And something I did may have dropped the STOP-mode current even lower than I was seeing then.  Next step is to take my rig over to the bench, plug the current monitor into the o'scope, and see what the graph during the RTC wakeup actually looks like.
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2022-02-08T06:29:05 < octorian> And while monitoring my tinyCurrent (uCurrent clone) on the o'scope is a bit noisy, I absolutely can see the RTC wakeup event peaks :-)
2022-02-08T06:30:07 < octorian> Seems to jump by ~0.5mA for about 160us with the current implementation.  Given that the peak is still nowhere near my limit, I think this looks good.
2022-02-08T06:32:56 < octorian> But that ugly issue, where toggling a GPIO (via button press) while in stop mode causes a small current increase, has returned :-(
2022-02-08T06:33:11 < octorian> And AFAIK, I am disabling the relevant EXTI IRQs.  So its gotta be something less obvious.
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2022-02-08T08:46:57 < jpa-> octorian: leakage through pull-up/pull-down resistors maybe?
2022-02-08T08:48:08 < octorian> Maybe, but its weird.  Press one button, the current jumps a bit and stays there.  Press it again, or press any others, and current doesn't change further.
2022-02-08T08:48:30 < jpa-> hm
2022-02-08T08:48:47 < octorian> I'm going to have to experiment a bit more with various peripheral configurations.  Its like I'm inadvertently turning something on, just a little bit.
2022-02-08T08:49:21 < octorian> I'll dig into it more tomorrow.
2022-02-08T08:49:47 < octorian> Just glad my "mess of tinker code" from a day ago is now starting to solidify into something that works and isn't as messy.
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2022-02-08T10:00:14 < jadew> benishor, thanks
2022-02-08T10:00:28 < benishor> yw. how is it going?
2022-02-08T10:00:37 < jadew> rough
2022-02-08T10:00:57 < benishor> sorry to hear that. I thought the worse was gone
2022-02-08T10:01:02 < benishor> worst
2022-02-08T10:01:34 < jadew> last couple of days were pretty bad, with fever, being unable to sleep, muscle aches and for the past 24 hours sore throat
2022-02-08T10:01:58 < jadew> and head aches too
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2022-02-08T10:06:01 < benishor> hang in there buddy, it will pass
2022-02-08T10:06:12 < benishor> any treatment you're taking?
2022-02-08T10:07:14 < jadew> thanks
2022-02-08T10:07:37 < jadew> no, I took one ibuprofen yesterday and another one today so I could eat
2022-02-08T10:07:50 < jadew> other than that, I just take vitamin D and zinc
2022-02-08T10:08:07 < benishor> did you do a pcr?
2022-02-08T10:08:39 < jadew> no, there was an outbreak at my son's school, he brought it home (we had him tested)
2022-02-08T10:09:01 < jadew> then wife developed symptoms - she tested herself, and a day after I developed symptoms
2022-02-08T10:09:32 < jadew> I didn't test myself tho, but it's clear what it is
2022-02-08T10:12:01 < jadew> I will get officially tested tho, because I want the QR code
2022-02-08T10:16:10 < Steffann> Farewell jadew
2022-02-08T10:34:52 < qyx> no 5G QR code?
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2022-02-08T11:23:05 < benishor> jadew: what's your vaccination status?
2022-02-08T11:24:21 < drzacek> qr code? for wifi?
2022-02-08T11:24:31 < benishor> qr code for green passport
2022-02-08T11:24:38 < drzacek> huh?
2022-02-08T11:24:45 < benishor> vaccination passport, it's a thing in UE
2022-02-08T11:25:41 < benishor> s/passport/certificate
2022-02-08T11:27:12 < drzacek> ue?
2022-02-08T11:27:42  * drzacek was hiding under a rock, knows nothing about passports
2022-02-08T11:29:16 < qyx> covid pass across the eu
2022-02-08T11:37:29 < drzacek> like, the app on my phone that holds the QR codes for vaccinations?
2022-02-08T11:37:51 < drzacek> what does testing have to do with it?
2022-02-08T11:38:42 < jpa-> you can get it for various combinations of X vaccines + Y confirmed infections
2022-02-08T11:38:53 < drzacek> ah
2022-02-08T11:39:03 < drzacek> okay, kinda makes sense, I guess
2022-02-08T11:39:31 < qyx> idk i have the QR on a paper
2022-02-08T11:39:50 < qyx> because my 2007 sony ericsson cannot run modern fancy apps
2022-02-08T11:40:02 < drzacek> I mean, it's just a picture?
2022-02-08T11:40:06 < qyx> yes
2022-02-08T11:40:11 < qyx> no
2022-02-08T11:40:13 < drzacek> if it can display the picture in proper resolution, should work?
2022-02-08T11:41:16 < PaulFertser> https://hackernoon.com/how-to-decode-your-own-eu-vaccination-green-pass-with-a-few-lines-of-python-9v2c37s1
2022-02-08T11:41:44 < jadew> benishor, two doses, Pfizer
2022-02-08T11:42:55 < jadew> I had my vaccination passport as a PDF on my phone
2022-02-08T11:43:30 < PaulFertser> In contrast to that, russian QR codes are just linking to a government operated website which has first letters of your name and surname, date of birth and some parts of passport ID number. So you show that code and your passport and a person can verify it without any special app, just a web browser to access an https website.
2022-02-08T11:44:45 < jpa-> PaulFertser: does the person scanning it know to verify the url well enough?
2022-02-08T11:44:52 < jadew> the whole passport thing is absolute insanity
2022-02-08T11:45:09 < jadew> I'm not convinced that all the measures that have been taken have amounted to anything
2022-02-08T11:45:44 < jadew> in the end, everyone seems to get covid anyway
2022-02-08T11:46:04 < jpa-> the passport thing was a failure since omicron
2022-02-08T11:46:20 < jpa-> probably will be forgotten soon enough
2022-02-08T11:46:48 < jadew> let's hope so, they intend to prohibit us from traveling from country to country without it
2022-02-08T11:46:51 < PaulFertser> jpa-: either that or a special app can be used. Of course there're many fake websites available which look similar, guess that threat is supposed to be a good enough trade-off. There's also an official app that verifies the URL but it's not like there's a strong mandate on using it.
2022-02-08T11:47:00 < jadew> meaning that every 6 months, you'll have to get a vaccine
2022-02-08T11:47:18 < drzacek> only working solution would be national databases and subdermal rfid modules. you would scan the rfid & take blood sample for reference and check it up in database
2022-02-08T11:47:58 < jpa-> lol, you have funny definition of "working"
2022-02-08T11:48:12 < ventYl> jadew: if adverse effects of infection will decline, I see no reason for that
2022-02-08T11:48:27 < jadew> ventYl, even if they don't
2022-02-08T11:48:29 < PaulFertser> drzacek: so it's like russian solution is closer to your working one :)
2022-02-08T11:48:44 < jadew> as long as the measures don't seem to protect anyone in practice, then they're just a hinderance 
2022-02-08T11:48:58 < PaulFertser> drzacek: just differs in that with paper passport used for authentication it can be really working in real life.
2022-02-08T11:49:21 < ventYl> jadew: yeah, but as long as there is threat you can point a finger on, there will be a group of people, which can be convinced that measures are for their good
2022-02-08T11:49:43 < drzacek> you are missing the big picture here
2022-02-08T11:50:08 < drzacek> someone get to make an app and gets money from it, and I think it's beautifuel
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2022-02-08T13:07:04 < karlp> zyp: yeah, but hSE is "only" +200uA, and I'm actually using the lpsleep modes, stop2 on l4 goes even lower.  Anywya, will look at it, but I hav ea good base to work from now I believe.
2022-02-08T13:07:53 < karlp> octorian: I saw some notes that if you use the gpio config lock bits, it reduces current in stop modes...
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2022-02-08T13:42:52 < qyx> maybe hse+reset+debug? that is about 900 uA on L4
2022-02-08T13:43:11 < qyx> or hse+debug
2022-02-08T13:43:14 < qyx> whatever
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2022-02-08T13:49:10 < karlp> tomorrow's problem :)(
2022-02-08T13:49:14 < karlp> today I'm in the office freecadding
2022-02-08T13:50:05 < qyx> did you pull out youtubers from the lake yet?
2022-02-08T13:50:52 < karlp> I think they might try tomorrow?
2022-02-08T13:50:59 < karlp> we had a pretty major storm here yesterday
2022-02-08T13:51:02 < karlp> might try today.
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2022-02-08T15:12:12 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2022-02-08T15:12:21 < Mangy_Dog> PA10 and PA9 are 5V tollorant
2022-02-08T15:12:31 < Mangy_Dog> tolerant
2022-02-08T15:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> Yet
2022-02-08T15:12:54 < Mangy_Dog> i still feel uneasy using them to detect lipo battery level voltage directly
2022-02-08T15:13:20 < Mangy_Dog> I dont mean as in analogue... just a button thats pressing battery level voltage to the pin to read HIGH or LOW
2022-02-08T15:13:25 < Mangy_Dog> as part of the power on system
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2022-02-08T15:14:33 < qyx> connect 10k in series and you are fine
2022-02-08T15:15:03 < qyx> but you are going to read H even if your battery is drained and dead at 1V8
2022-02-08T15:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> thats fine
2022-02-08T15:17:51 < Mangy_Dog> its just i need to be able to detect when the power button is pressed beyowned the startup phase 
2022-02-08T15:19:23 < qyx> and why are you feeding the button directly?
2022-02-08T15:20:36 < Mangy_Dog> Its the button that pulls the battery out of shipping mode and powers up the system line (controlled by the battery managment chip) Its a logic button, no real current...
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2022-02-08T15:22:16 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/940598382542610472/unknown.png
2022-02-08T15:22:22 < Mangy_Dog> schematic if youre interested
2022-02-08T15:28:49 < drzacek> Mangy_Dog, sup
2022-02-08T15:28:52 < drzacek> whats that?
2022-02-08T15:29:20 < Mangy_Dog> part of the power on system for tricorder 2.5
2022-02-08T15:30:01 < drzacek> I see usb in, battery charge and boost 
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2022-02-08T15:30:11 < drzacek> usb only for charger control?
2022-02-08T15:34:00 < Mangy_Dog> yeah usb charge but I use the USB to put the sound files into the sound chip
2022-02-08T15:34:24 < Mangy_Dog> but the charge controller also uses USB to negotiate higher current
2022-02-08T15:43:10 < Mangy_Dog> close call https://www.reuters.com/business/softbanks-66-bln-sale-arm-nvidia-collapses-ft-2022-02-08/
2022-02-08T15:44:05 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: remember that 5V tolerant pins are not 5V tolerant when the MCU is not powered
2022-02-08T15:44:21 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-08T15:44:29 < Mangy_Dog> would the 10K protect it?
2022-02-08T15:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> while its still in off - power up stage?
2022-02-08T15:45:12 < jpa-> no, 5V tolerant pins have 0mA limit for positive injection
2022-02-08T15:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2022-02-08T15:45:28 < Mangy_Dog> need to devide it then
2022-02-08T15:46:01 < Mangy_Dog> or a diode with a large voltage drop
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2022-02-08T15:46:27 < jpa-> or diode to VDD
2022-02-08T15:47:55 < Mangy_Dog> id need a diode with a 1v drop to go to vdd
2022-02-08T15:47:58 < zyp> don't you need a pulldown to sense the value anyway? the pulldown and a series resistor will form a divider
2022-02-08T15:48:14 < Mangy_Dog> could do that
2022-02-08T15:48:58 < Mangy_Dog> like i say need to devide it :D
2022-02-08T15:49:02 < zyp> «5V tolerant» pins are actually «Vdd+4V tolerant»
2022-02-08T15:49:42 < Mangy_Dog> ill just add a pulldown its fine
2022-02-08T15:52:30 < jpa-> interestingly gd32 datasheet allows positive injection for 5V-tolerant pins, not sure if documentation error or different structure
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2022-02-08T15:58:01 < Mangy_Dog> id bet safe and go with error
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2022-02-08T17:08:04 < karlp> man, freecad with spreadsheets is pretty rad.
2022-02-08T17:24:03 < srk> yep. I only wish tab completion would work a bit better
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2022-02-08T18:34:13 < bitmask> fuck you
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2022-02-08T18:42:20 < octorian> karlp, jpa-, I think I've made some progress...  If I set the button GPIO pins to analog before going into stop mode, they don't have side-effects if I push them while in stop mode.  But if I leave them in their normal interrupt configuration, even if I explicitly disable the relevant IRQs, they cause something in the MCU to wake up if I push them. (not enough to actually wake it up, just enough to increase current draw by ~0.3mA)
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2022-02-08T18:48:58 < octorian> There are notes in the ref manual about SEVONPEND and WFE mode letting something like this happen, but I don't have SEVONPEND set and I'm doing WFI mode.
2022-02-08T18:50:33 < BrainDamage> this is quite a smart idea, using schlirien photograpy to view airflow and heat in a board, not as accurate as a thermal camera but it's cheap to diy https://youtu.be/NeQH__XVa64?t=237
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2022-02-08T19:52:52 < Steffann> Wlcm kakium69 
2022-02-08T19:53:18 < kakium69> welcomium
2022-02-08T19:55:48 < jpa-> octorian: so are you disabling just the EXTI IRQ, or also the EXTI edge sensitivity?
2022-02-08T19:56:16 < octorian> jpa-, At this point, it looks like I need to do both.
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2022-02-08T20:00:12 < jpa-> looking at the EXTI block diagram in reference manual, it seems it has some direct wakeup connection even before normal interrupt processing
2022-02-08T20:00:26 < octorian> Yeah, seems like it.
2022-02-08T20:00:59 < octorian> But the docs imply this only matters if you set SEVONPEND and WFE, neither of which I'm doing.
2022-02-08T20:01:05 < octorian> (unless I misread something)
2022-02-08T20:01:22 < jpa-> also "All NVIC interrupts will wakeup the MCU, even the disabled ones. Only enabled
2022-02-08T20:01:24 < jpa-> NVIC interrupts with sufficient priority will wakeup and interrupt the MCU."
2022-02-08T20:01:48 < jpa-> which is different than what i remembered
2022-02-08T20:01:52 < octorian> Where's that a quote from?
2022-02-08T20:02:06 < jpa-> reference manual, 5.3.3 Exiting low power mode
2022-02-08T20:03:01 < jpa-> though again it is a bit confusing whether that applies to WFI or WFE only
2022-02-08T20:03:44 < octorian> I'm reading a different reference manual than you.  In mine, the equivalent quote is: "If the WFI instruction or Return from ISR was used to enter the low-power mode, any peripheral interrupt acknowledged by the NVIC can wake up the device. This includes EXTI lines and any GPIO toggle."
2022-02-08T20:04:14 < bitmask> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MxH1sfJLBQ
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2022-02-08T20:38:23 < catphish> as i discovered last week, it's rather useful that disabled interrupts wake the MCU from WFI but don't interrupt it
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2022-02-08T21:18:58 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4&ab_channel=JoeGrand
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2022-02-08T21:46:51 < Steffann> There is waaaaaay to much blabla in that video machinehum.. daaamn
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2022-02-08T22:52:14 < Steffann> *too
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2022-02-08T23:05:34 < kakium69> what are GPIOR? in legacy avr mcus?
2022-02-08T23:05:53 < kakium69> something general purpose but nothing else in datasheet
2022-02-08T23:06:29 < kakium69> it has something to do with mem ranges and special instructions?
2022-02-08T23:10:49 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-08T23:14:12 < kakium69> for storing global variables and
2022-02-08T23:14:17 < kakium69>  status flags
2022-02-08T23:14:23 < kakium69> especially
2022-02-08T23:14:39 < kakium69> I bet GCC doesn't utilize those?
2022-02-08T23:44:08 < karlp> fuck, I'm out text editing to restore kicad to a 6.0 pcbfile after usign the nightly for a few days past the 6.0 release as they merged a mountain of new shit
2022-02-08T23:48:10 < kakium69> hmm
2022-02-08T23:48:31 < kakium69> I did that nightly thing for a time
2022-02-08T23:48:50 < kakium69> better just install stable once and roll with it
2022-02-08T23:51:03 < kakium69> is there word or verb for what & operator does to one variable
2022-02-08T23:51:19 < kakium69> pointerization?
2022-02-08T23:52:52 < kakium69> reference something
2022-02-08T23:53:39 < kakium69> denotate
2022-02-08T23:55:01 < kakium69> denoted
2022-02-08T23:55:28 < qyx> http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cheung/Courses/561/Syllabus/3-C/ref-deref.html
2022-02-08T23:58:21 < kakium69> denoted is fine verb in past tense for that reference operation?
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2022-02-08T23:59:24 < kakium69> I'm writing commentary
--- Day changed Wed Feb 09 2022
2022-02-09T00:01:23 < karlp> lol, I've just converted my pcb file back to kicad 6.x with regexp
2022-02-09T00:01:37 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-02-09T00:01:42 < karlp> then updating my local branch of footprints, and they went and re-saved everyt single footprint again :)
2022-02-09T00:01:52 < karlp> just as well I have very few _customizations_ and mostly just additions
2022-02-09T00:13:57 < upgrdman> kakium69, afaik "&" is the "address of" operator
2022-02-09T00:14:33 < kakium69> address of is not a verb
2022-02-09T00:14:54 < kakium69> I need verbs for my commentary rambles
2022-02-09T00:16:42 < upgrdman> hmm, i wonder is some shit like "int* foo = &bar & baz;" is valid c? would be a nice way to torture coworkers, etc with syntax fuckery
2022-02-09T00:19:28 < karlp> well, fuck that was uninspiring, but I have a kicad 6.99 project back to 6.x and now no longer anyu desire to work on it :)
2022-02-09T00:22:27 < kakium69> upgrdman: leave spaces out then it's interesting
2022-02-09T00:22:32 < kakium69> or just one space
2022-02-09T00:22:40 < upgrdman> hmm ya
2022-02-09T00:22:53 < kakium69> &bar &baz
2022-02-09T00:23:23 < kakium69> but it's the same
2022-02-09T00:29:35 < qyx> kakium69: I would say referencing and dereferencing
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2022-02-09T00:40:30 < kakium69> double L
2022-02-09T00:41:58 < Steffann> Triple D
2022-02-09T00:54:59 < kakium69> 3D
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2022-02-09T01:28:24 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zCfGBxgyYM musics
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2022-02-09T01:37:12 < machinehum> lol
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2022-02-09T01:58:12 < catphish> what the hell is wrong with sending post from UK to Finland? i send someone a package about a month ago, it didn't arrive, so i re-sent, tracked, 7 days ago, it still hasn't arrived in Finland, it's supposed to be 3-5 days delivery
2022-02-09T01:58:28 < kakium69> nah
2022-02-09T01:58:53 < kakium69> a week minimums
2022-02-09T01:59:12 < kakium69> c55?
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2022-02-09T02:00:05 < catphish> well it's been 7 days, and hasn't showed up on posti tracking yet, but hopefully this one isn't lost yet
2022-02-09T02:00:09 < catphish> c55?
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2022-02-09T02:37:43 < kakium69> hmm
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2022-02-09T03:22:08 < kakium69> can I feed macros to templates does macros expand correcly?
2022-02-09T03:22:54 < kakium69> static const int PORTB_ADDR = (int) &PORTB;
2022-02-09T03:22:54 < kakium69> DIO<PORTB_ADDR, PIN4_bm> dio1;
2022-02-09T03:24:39 < kakium69> so can I just DIO<(int)&PORTB,PIN4_bm> dio1;?
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2022-02-09T03:28:30 < kakium69> Double L
2022-02-09T03:30:13 < kakium69> macro expands correctly but template only accepts constant-expression
2022-02-09T03:34:16 < kakium69> int or enum
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2022-02-09T13:33:04 < Steffann> Wtf is double l kakium69  
2022-02-09T13:33:25 < Steffann> Oh Laurance quit join
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2022-02-09T15:16:05 < karlp> fucking weirdos sending me a pro forma invoice password protected "for mutual protection" and I have to reply saying I got it and they send the password
2022-02-09T15:16:09 < karlp> wtf is this protecting me from?
2022-02-09T15:16:15 < karlp> seeing their bank details? 
2022-02-09T15:16:20 < karlp> what's the thinking even?
2022-02-09T15:27:57 < Steffann> I'll send the email for you. No worries karlp 
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2022-02-09T16:46:14 < englishman> better than sending a password protected fax
2022-02-09T16:47:10 < BrainDamage> qr code with the encrypted data through fax
2022-02-09T17:00:55 < karlp> these are not helpful answers :)
2022-02-09T17:01:06 < karlp> so. TXS0108 is used as level translator on the stm32wb nucleo board.
2022-02-09T17:01:15 < karlp> says 1.5uA supply current on VDD-A side.
2022-02-09T17:01:30 < karlp> if I disconenct VDD-A, my current consumption drops from 1000uA to ~500uA.
2022-02-09T17:02:30 < karlp> and if I take off the swdio jumper it goes down another 100uA.
2022-02-09T17:02:31 < BrainDamage> karlp: if the person sending the form and the person sending the pw are not the same it might make sense somehow
2022-02-09T17:02:42 < BrainDamage> but it's horribly convoluted
2022-02-09T17:03:21 < karlp> BrainDamage: yeah, it's the same person though, same company, literaly, "here's an offer" "ok, we accept" "ok, here's a proforma that is the same, but has our bank despoit details on it, and is password protected"
2022-02-09T17:03:43 < karlp> "ok, I eceived it, now email me the password" "sure, abcd1234"
2022-02-09T17:03:48 < karlp> just makes no sense.
2022-02-09T17:03:52 < karlp> like this wb board...
2022-02-09T17:04:01 < BrainDamage> ok, they just don't understand encryption
2022-02-09T17:04:20 < karlp> yeah, someone obviously sold them "a solution"
2022-02-09T17:04:36 < karlp> "ATTENTION! Please note that the attached document FPF is password protected. For the sake of mutual security, and above all to protect the document against interception (and / or exchange), we will send the password to this document in a separate, next e-mail only after receiving a return e-mail from you confirming receipt of this message."
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2022-02-09T17:32:07 < jpa-> it kind of protects against sending documents to wrong email address.. but poorly at that
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2022-02-09T18:01:34 < karlp> rabbit holes on rabbit holes.
2022-02-09T18:02:07 < karlp> tryingt o use cube programmer to check option bytes to check whether I can use dfu and avoid the stlink portion entirely, and it segfaults trying to connect.
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2022-02-09T18:10:23 < kakium69> idk man
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2022-02-09T18:10:51 < kakium69> how about jlink?
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2022-02-09T18:22:47 < karlp> lol, "(gdb) mon help mww 0x58004008 0x45670123
2022-02-09T18:22:52 < karlp>  no wonder things weren't working..
2022-02-09T18:23:55 < kakium69> mon help mww
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2022-02-09T19:02:19 < kakium69> englishman: how is convoy?
2022-02-09T19:05:11 < englishman> honk!
2022-02-09T19:05:25 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDzHtBZO5wE
2022-02-09T19:07:18 < kakium69> did that guy has snus?
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2022-02-09T19:08:48 < kakium69> *slurps*
2022-02-09T19:09:48 < kakium69> american snus it has whiskey barrel taste and it's juicy
2022-02-09T19:10:01 < kakium69> and smoke taste
2022-02-09T19:10:12 < mawk> send me snus kakium69 
2022-02-09T19:10:14 < mawk> it's illegal here
2022-02-09T19:10:20 < mawk> I can't buy it
2022-02-09T19:10:28 < englishman> libarté!
2022-02-09T19:10:41 < mawk> :(
2022-02-09T19:10:44 < mawk> I'm in netherlands currently
2022-02-09T19:11:01 < kakium69> mawk: which one of us is breaking the law if I send some?
2022-02-09T19:11:14 < mawk> I don't think it's illegal to exchange between individuals
2022-02-09T19:11:17 < mawk> it's just not allowed to sell
2022-02-09T19:11:32 < kakium69> in here exchange distribution any kind illegal
2022-02-09T19:11:36 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-09T19:11:52 < mawk> where do you get it then
2022-02-09T19:12:06 < kakium69> :p
2022-02-09T19:12:12 < kakium69> sweden
2022-02-09T19:12:19 < mawk> hmm hmm
2022-02-09T19:12:24 < mawk> I had some in czechia
2022-02-09T19:12:27 < mawk> I should've bought more
2022-02-09T19:13:21 < kakium69> but it means even giving snus for free is illegal "hey gib me one of those" "I cannot it's illegal to gib you one"
2022-02-09T19:14:56 < kakium69> but if I send it to you then I think it might be out of scope of the law
2022-02-09T19:15:46 < kakium69> and it's to recepiant to deal with
2022-02-09T19:15:50 < kakium69> bbl>
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2022-02-09T20:18:11 < Steffann> I hope you'll keep working from home mawk.
2022-02-09T20:18:34 < mawk> why Steffann 
2022-02-09T20:18:48 < Steffann> Smelly snus user
2022-02-09T20:20:58 < mawk> :(
2022-02-09T20:21:04 < mawk> you never smelled a snus user
2022-02-09T20:21:07 < mawk> it's illegal in dutchlandia
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2022-02-09T20:32:12 < sauce> smell aside, getting to enjoy the spit bottles they leave lying around is the best
2022-02-09T20:32:54 < mawk> https://www.reddit.com/r/medical/comments/sogv3z/i_quit_my_risperdal_medicine_suddenly_the_other/
2022-02-09T20:32:58 < mawk> this sounds like a joke
2022-02-09T20:33:00 < mawk> I want blue snow too
2022-02-09T20:33:17 < BrainDamage> that's ok, in china's impolite to blow your nose, so they have plenty of spittoons
2022-02-09T20:34:57 < BrainDamage> mawk: if you're unlucky you can get schizophrenia from hallucinogens
2022-02-09T20:35:10 < mawk> if you were latent schizophrenic to begin with
2022-02-09T20:35:11 < BrainDamage> go and sample until you find the right one's for you
2022-02-09T20:35:18 < mawk> with a damoclès sword over your head
2022-02-09T20:35:58 < BrainDamage> I posit you can offset that with just a more massive dose and prolonged usage
2022-02-09T20:36:24 < BrainDamage> you just have to fuck up your neurotransmitters 24/7 until you exit homeostasis
2022-02-09T20:36:34 < mawk> maybe
2022-02-09T20:36:38 < mawk> I didn't succeed in doing that
2022-02-09T20:36:43 < mawk> I tried really hard
2022-02-09T20:37:17 < BrainDamage> I never heard you about hallucinogens, only stimulants and opioids
2022-02-09T20:37:31 < mawk> yeah because I stopped them long ago
2022-02-09T20:37:41 < mawk> now if I try them again I have panic attacks
2022-02-09T20:38:03 < mawk> I stopped stimulants also, I'm only 65kg I don't want to lose weight
2022-02-09T20:38:11 < mawk> the only stimulant I use is caffeine
2022-02-09T20:39:31 < Xogium> I find the taste of that too bitter
2022-02-09T20:39:42 < mawk> you can take caffeine pills if you prefer
2022-02-09T20:39:49 < mawk> or snort caffeine powder like a real man
2022-02-09T20:39:55 < Xogium> oh god
2022-02-09T20:40:04 < mawk> but it's hygroscopic so if you leave it open to the air it becomes hard like rock and burns your nose
2022-02-09T20:40:08 < mawk> I don't recommend
2022-02-09T20:40:58 < BrainDamage> are you speaking from direct experience?
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2022-02-09T20:41:25 < Xogium> would it have prevented me from dropping a glass in a very… stupid way ? Probably not hehe
2022-02-09T20:41:32 < Xogium> its hard to not live alone
2022-02-09T20:41:45 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHQXBAjkmOQ
2022-02-09T20:42:07 < Xogium> especially with someone who's not used yet to you not seeing a thing and leaving their glass on the very edge of the counter and… CRASH ! Ah shit
2022-02-09T20:43:26 < Xogium> the worse is I had enough time to realize it would fall and I went from annoyed to resigned in the space of whatever time it took to fall
2022-02-09T20:43:58 < BrainDamage> just like when you stub your toe on a furniture's corner
2022-02-09T20:44:16 < BrainDamage> you have just the time to realize you fucked up before the pain arrives
2022-02-09T20:44:22 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2022-02-09T20:44:37 < Xogium> yep exactly like that
2022-02-09T20:44:40 < mawk> I saw a video of a guy smoking carolina reaper in a bong, then snorting a line
2022-02-09T20:44:48 < mawk> it wasn't staged I think, he seemed in a lot of pain afterwards
2022-02-09T20:45:10 < BrainDamage> ... but why
2022-02-09T20:45:21 < mawk> he probably thought it would make a good youtube video
2022-02-09T20:45:33 < mawk> it's the frat boy spirit
2022-02-09T20:45:38 < BrainDamage> I hope the ads cover the medical costs
2022-02-09T20:45:55 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-09T20:46:01 < BrainDamage> you can even get chemical burns if the capsaicin content gets too high
2022-02-09T20:46:05 < mawk> I wonder if it actually does any damage, or if it's just pain
2022-02-09T20:46:07 < mawk> ah right
2022-02-09T20:46:16 < BrainDamage> maybe they should start using pepper sprays
2022-02-09T20:46:51 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-09T20:47:10 < mawk> ah no it wasn't in a bong, it was in a vape
2022-02-09T20:47:14 < mawk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rerj92ZPuV4
2022-02-09T20:47:28 < Xogium> damn, too bad I wasn't recording when I broke that glass, would have at least gotten something out of that
2022-02-09T20:47:47 < mawk> do you record stuff?
2022-02-09T20:47:51 < mawk> and have an AI read back what it sees
2022-02-09T20:47:53 < Xogium> yeah
2022-02-09T20:47:59 < Xogium> well
2022-02-09T20:48:04 < Xogium> I mean audio recording
2022-02-09T20:48:32 < Xogium> I recorded a bunch of blank mortar shots in world war 2 reconstitution, boy that was loud
2022-02-09T20:49:22 < Xogium> from like 15 meters away it still apparently managed to turn the led to warn for near distorted audio on my tascam
2022-02-09T20:49:57 < mawk> the carolina reaper vaper speaks a bit like donald trump when he says "I'm a trained professional"
2022-02-09T20:50:11 < Xogium> it flashed yellow though, not red. At least that
2022-02-09T20:50:28 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-02-09T20:52:02 < mawk> at around 4:50 he starts vaping it
2022-02-09T20:52:05 < Xogium> but jeez that recording was hard to recover… I tried my best, but this was just an entry-level recorder… Ok for tascam it's already not half bad, honest. But for that kind of sound, it was just not good enough
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2022-02-09T20:53:12 < Xogium> especially the self-noise and preamp were decent, for the price range
2022-02-09T20:53:56 < Xogium> but I kinda prefer my high-end recorder where it records the same audio twice at once, with a 12 db difference in the second file, should the first one get distorted
2022-02-09T20:56:01 < mawk> ah and he stuffs a bit in his eyes also BrainDamage I forgot that part
2022-02-09T20:56:05 < mawk> a triple-feature like he says
2022-02-09T20:56:34 < BrainDamage> might as well put it on a dildo and shove it up his ass
2022-02-09T20:57:03 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-09T20:57:10 < mawk> maybe there are less receptors down there to feel the good pain
2022-02-09T20:57:34 < mawk> that's a nice feature Xogium 
2022-02-09T20:58:40 < Xogium> mawk: oh yeah I absolutely love it. Saved a recording a lot of times already… It can also manage to switch from the depleted internal battery to the couple of AA batteries you put in and somehow not interrupt the recording in any way doing that
2022-02-09T20:58:52 < Xogium> same thing if you have the external battery pack
2022-02-09T21:01:11 < Xogium> there was a video of someone taking onfe of these apart to see what made it tick… A lower level in the product range but still
2022-02-09T21:02:09 < Xogium> thing came equiped with a 128 MB spi flash, 128 MB of ram, I forget what was the main SoC… And also a cs42l52 from cirrus logic as a sound codec
2022-02-09T21:03:00 < Xogium> makes me wonder what the high-end model is using
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2022-02-09T21:12:19 < Steffann> i must verify my age to watch that mawk.. can you verifiy?
2022-02-09T21:24:22 < BrainDamage> Steffann: use yt-dlp and you get the direct url
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2022-02-09T22:23:44 < kakium69> sauce: where you?
2022-02-09T22:23:51 < sauce> eh
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2022-02-09T22:26:35 < kakium69> little night codes>
2022-02-09T22:29:21 < bitmask> hi
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2022-02-09T22:30:50 < kakium69> evenings
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2022-02-09T22:35:30 < Steffann> Double K ..
2022-02-09T22:36:42 < mawk> Steffann: caca?
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2022-02-09T22:54:05 < bitmask> anyone know why some chemical formulas repeat oxygen instead of just saying the count with a subscript? like acetate being CH3COO? I guess it has to do with the bonds since the carbon is repeated as well just not in order
2022-02-09T22:55:51 < karlp> because it implies the structure.
2022-02-09T22:56:07 < karlp> you'll only see this in organic chem
2022-02-09T22:57:24 < bitmask> k
2022-02-09T22:57:25 < mawk> bitmask: CH3COOH isn't a raw formula
2022-02-09T22:57:34 < mawk> yes as karlp says it says something about the structure
2022-02-09T22:57:51 < bitmask> figured as much, doesnt really make sense any other way
2022-02-09T22:57:51 < mawk> -COOH is a carboxyl group for instance
2022-02-09T22:57:53 < karlp> and if your'e getting into organoic chem, abandon all hope ;)
2022-02-09T22:58:00 < mawk> if you say CO2H you lose that info
2022-02-09T22:58:26 < mawk> so CH3COOH is ethanoic acid, or vinegar
2022-02-09T22:58:42 < karlp> you'll see it sometimes in inorganic, when you have hydrated salts and shit, but meh
2022-02-09T22:59:04 < bitmask> ethanoic? you mean acetic?
2022-02-09T22:59:08 < bitmask> or just another name for it
2022-02-09T22:59:08 < mawk> and CH3COO- is the ethanoate ion; CH3COO is nothing
2022-02-09T22:59:12 < mawk> it's the same thing bitmask 
2022-02-09T22:59:15 < bitmask> k
2022-02-09T22:59:16 < mawk> ethanoic is the standardized name
2022-02-09T22:59:20 < karlp> inorganinc prefers to do things like "Fe2(III)O3" and "Fe(II)O2) shits.
2022-02-09T22:59:22 < mawk> acetic is the vernacular name
2022-02-09T22:59:44 < karlp> just add more roman for states...
2022-02-09T23:00:36 < bitmask> heh i was gonna look up oxidation states but i dont feel like going down a chem rabbit hole right now
2022-02-09T23:00:49 < mawk> just like HCOOH is formic acid, or methanoic acid, bitmask 
2022-02-09T23:01:02 < bitmask> i see
2022-02-09T23:01:06 < mawk> it has several names, and methanoic acid is the standardized one
2022-02-09T23:01:25  * karlp suspects frnech people might use "standard" names more than the rest of the world ;)
2022-02-09T23:01:39 < mawk> :(
2022-02-09T23:02:48 < mawk> we say ethanol but acetic acid, and acetaldehyde; it's not consistent
2022-02-09T23:03:01 < mawk> ethanol, ethanoic acid, ethanal => all makes sense
2022-02-09T23:03:52 < mawk> also ethyne instead of acetylene
2022-02-09T23:04:09 < mawk> standardization makes everything simple
2022-02-09T23:05:24 < karlp> yes yes. everyone agrees, but you know it goes with rules being handed down 
2022-02-09T23:05:46 < Steffann> Time to learn the dutch names mawk. Ethaanzuur. Methaanzuur.
2022-02-09T23:05:57 < kakium69> which gcc output artifact has assembly listing?
2022-02-09T23:06:09 < karlp> kakium69: nothing unless you add it...
2022-02-09T23:06:40 < mawk> don't make gcc output assembly kakium69 
2022-02-09T23:06:51 < mawk> but build with debug mode, and then use as to extract annotated assembly listing
2022-02-09T23:07:08 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-09T23:07:22 < mawk> let me find the command
2022-02-09T23:07:34 < mawk> then you get assembly interspersed with C code and it's easy to read
2022-02-09T23:10:05 < mawk> kakium69: -Wa,-alhnd=code.lst,-L
2022-02-09T23:10:09 < mawk> add this switch to gcc
2022-02-09T23:10:19 < mawk> and it will put the annotated assembly listing in code.lst
2022-02-09T23:10:29 < mawk> when you compile a .c file
2022-02-09T23:10:53 < mawk> you can look up the flags of "as" to have more or less things in the listing
2022-02-09T23:13:01 < mawk> I was wrong it's not extract the listing, it's make gcc output artifact like you said
2022-02-09T23:14:08 < karlp> you can also just use objdump -S and see it interleaved on demand, if youbuild with -g...
2022-02-09T23:15:40 < mawk> yeah that works too
2022-02-09T23:16:27 < mawk> it might be in a different order, and maybe mixed with libc support functions and all; but you can ask for a symbol in particular
2022-02-09T23:17:28 < kakium69> objdump ofc
2022-02-09T23:17:56 < mawk> well try it
2022-02-09T23:17:59 < mawk> you will see the difference
2022-02-09T23:18:19 < mawk> using the assembler will output assembly specifically  for the .c file you are compiling
2022-02-09T23:18:25 < mawk> instead of having mixed around as the linker saw fit
2022-02-09T23:18:54 < kakium69> yep
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2022-02-09T23:59:14 < qyx> did you drink much methaanzuur Steffann?
--- Day changed Thu Feb 10 2022
2022-02-10T00:03:03 < kakium69> mawk: it didn't produce that file
2022-02-10T00:03:31 < kakium69> wait let me try again
2022-02-10T00:04:29 < kakium69> ah it did
2022-02-10T00:04:39 < kakium69> but it's in project root
2022-02-10T00:05:56 < Steffann> Never tried it qyx.
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2022-02-10T00:06:53 < kakium69> no it's in output directory but the IDE needs to be informed somehow to add it to the solution explorer
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2022-02-10T00:10:26 < kakium69> -MF "$(@:%.o=%.d)" -MT"$(@:%.o=%.d)" -MT"$(@:%.o=%.o)"  do you understand that template syntax in this gcc command?
2022-02-10T00:14:31 < karlp> makes .os depend on .ds.
2022-02-10T00:17:04 < kakium69> how do I use that syntax for? -Wa,-alhnd=code.lst,-L
2022-02-10T00:20:22 < kakium69> oh that syntax doesn't even have project name but file name
2022-02-10T00:20:50 < kakium69> it's rather fine
2022-02-10T00:21:46 < kakium69> -MF "main.d" -MT"main.d" -MT"main.o"
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2022-02-10T01:04:20 < bitmask> hmmm, where did my silicon steel go
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2022-02-10T01:12:43 < kakium69> metglass?
2022-02-10T01:13:23 < bitmask> wtf is metglass
2022-02-10T01:14:12 < kakium69> type of silicon steel
2022-02-10T01:14:22 < kakium69> used in magnetic cores
2022-02-10T01:14:42 < kakium69> it's rolled to 50micrometer thickness or someshit
2022-02-10T01:15:46 < bitmask> oh, nope just a rod
2022-02-10T01:15:56 < kakium69> "This material is a metallic glass prepared by pouring molten alloy onto a rotating cooled wheel, which cools the metal at a rate of about one megakelvin per second, so fast that crystals do not form. Amorphous steel is limited to foils of about 50 µm thickness"
2022-02-10T01:15:59 < bitmask> and I was wrong I have the silicon steel im missing the soft iron rod
2022-02-10T01:16:13 < kakium69> megakelvin per second
2022-02-10T01:16:16 < bitmask> damn
2022-02-10T01:17:51 < bitmask> if only i knew how magnetism worked... does the length of the rod affect the field strength? like if I have a 30cm rod with the coil at the very end and measure the field there will it be different than if the rod was only the length of the coil?
2022-02-10T01:18:48 < kakium69> certainly
2022-02-10T01:19:02 < kakium69> it's way lower flux there
2022-02-10T01:19:40 < bitmask> i just measured the strength with a 6mm diameter rod 30cm length (silicon steel) and the strength was 16mT, then I tried a nickel iron rod that was 3mm diameter and about the same length and the strength and it read 27mT.   is that because the volume of metal is less?
2022-02-10T01:20:20 < bitmask> i guess i need to read the basics
2022-02-10T01:20:56 < BrainDamage> bitmask: the metal bends the flux lines
2022-02-10T01:21:23 < bitmask> ok so length makes sense then i guess, what about the diameter?
2022-02-10T01:21:25 < BrainDamage> imagine the flux lines like they want to get back into a looopy shape through the coil
2022-02-10T01:21:31 < bitmask> is it just that its concentrated on a smaller area?
2022-02-10T01:21:57 < BrainDamage> if the rod is too long, it'll try to keep them straight, instead of bending back around the coil
2022-02-10T01:22:07 < BrainDamage> so it'll reduce the effect a bit
2022-02-10T01:22:07 < bitmask> i see
2022-02-10T01:22:44 < bitmask> im curious how accurate this probe is but i guess it doesnt really lmatter
2022-02-10T01:22:59 < bitmask> as long as I get relative readings thats prob all i need
2022-02-10T01:23:07 < kakium69> smaller diameter = higher flux ?
2022-02-10T01:23:28 < bitmask> are you asking me? yes thats what happened
2022-02-10T01:23:36 < BrainDamage> inductance is directly proportional to the radius
2022-02-10T01:23:53 < kakium69> I did one magnetic core at jubb
2022-02-10T01:23:56 < BrainDamage> however, too large of a radius and then you end up with edge effects
2022-02-10T01:24:27 < kakium69> it was physically constrained by manuf cap. and device size
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2022-02-10T01:24:39 < kakium69> tried it and it worked
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2022-02-10T01:24:54 < BrainDamage> for the normal formulas, as long as length >> diameter, they should work
2022-02-10T01:24:57 < bitmask> im attempting to make/play with a laser galvo
2022-02-10T01:25:20 < BrainDamage> it's not like a coil with diameter comparable to length doesn't work btw, it just needs different formulas
2022-02-10T01:26:14 < kakium69> bitmask: so you are trying to make an actuator?
2022-02-10T01:26:21 < kakium69> and very fast one too?
2022-02-10T01:26:24 < bitmask> its amazing how crappy air cores are, with the 3mm rod int he 6mm hole it was 27mT, with nothing it was 2
2022-02-10T01:26:43 < bitmask> trying, this is just day 1, playing
2022-02-10T01:26:57 < bitmask> if it doesnt work i dont care, just seems fun
2022-02-10T01:26:58 < kakium69> directly driving the mirror?
2022-02-10T01:27:05 < bitmask> yup
2022-02-10T01:27:25 < kakium69> location feedback?
2022-02-10T01:27:41 < kakium69> optical?
2022-02-10T01:27:45 < bitmask> yea optical
2022-02-10T01:30:15 < bitmask> the annoying thing is getting rods/diametric magnets that are small, I mean rods are fine, cant find silicon steel under like 5-6mm but thats fine because the smallest magnets I could find that are diametric hollow cylinders are like 12mm x 6mm
2022-02-10T01:30:16 < BrainDamage> bitmask: ur for most ferromagnetic materials can be in the order of 100-1000
2022-02-10T01:30:33 < BrainDamage> so if you fit a proper core, you can get 100x the mag field
2022-02-10T01:31:47 < bitmask> once I cut these silicon steel rods and nickel rods I'll get a better sense of how much better they are
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2022-02-10T01:33:33 < kakium69> how do you plan to do the mechanics of the mirror?
2022-02-10T01:33:45 < kakium69> flexible center pivot?
2022-02-10T01:33:53 < kakium69> double mirror?
2022-02-10T01:34:11 < bitmask> not sure what you mean
2022-02-10T01:34:25 < bitmask> to control both axes?
2022-02-10T01:35:04 < kakium69> how are mirror(s) suspended? 1 or 2 mirrors?
2022-02-10T01:37:18 < bitmask> im not 100% on how this is gonna work yet, something like the rod with permanent magnets around it on the enclosed end, a couple bearings holding it in place and a mirror on the other end of the rod
2022-02-10T01:38:15 < bitmask> i prob have a pic of what im basically copying from what I can understand one sec
2022-02-10T01:41:53 < bitmask> maybe not
2022-02-10T01:42:23 < kakium69> doing both axis on one mirror would be interestings.. there would be gyroscopic precession to deal with
2022-02-10T01:42:36 < bitmask> def not doing both axes on one
2022-02-10T01:48:53 < sauce> whats the application here?
2022-02-10T01:49:24 < bitmask> laser projector type thing? i dunno, really just playing around
2022-02-10T01:49:50 < sauce> you know laser galvos are available off the shelf for cheap right
2022-02-10T01:50:20 < bitmask> cheap? no i didnt, but also just wanted to make one
2022-02-10T01:50:24 < kakium69> how cheap?
2022-02-10T01:50:36 < sauce> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/224600781779
2022-02-10T01:57:02 < sauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELxDGtESMI did this with a similar one
2022-02-10T01:57:28 < sauce> (and an stm32f4 driving it naturally)
2022-02-10T01:59:15 < bitmask> what are those other lines floating up?
2022-02-10T01:59:24 < sauce> IR flare
2022-02-10T01:59:45 < bitmask> ah
2022-02-10T01:59:46 < sauce> cheap and dangerous dpss laser
2022-02-10T02:00:07 < bitmask> yea
2022-02-10T02:00:07 < sauce> does a nice effect with the rolling shutter though
2022-02-10T02:01:19 < BrainDamage> replace laser with uv light and make a tan tattoo system
2022-02-10T02:02:24 < kakium69> cancer tattoo
2022-02-10T02:03:03 < sauce> if you want to diy one i'd suggest doing a single axis, and using a polygonal mirror from a laser printer for the other axis
2022-02-10T02:04:09 < bitmask> as a rasterizer?
2022-02-10T02:04:17 < sauce> yeah or oscillogram style effect
2022-02-10T02:04:26 < bitmask> is that cube rasterized?
2022-02-10T02:04:33 < sauce> nope
2022-02-10T02:04:43 < bitmask> ok
2022-02-10T02:04:56 < BrainDamage> normally the beam is always on
2022-02-10T02:05:08 < bitmask> i do have a mirror system from a laser printer but I dunno if iw anna do that
2022-02-10T02:05:10 < BrainDamage> and you just paint using persistance
2022-02-10T02:05:26 < bitmask> i know the options, just wasnt sure what he used
2022-02-10T02:06:04 < sauce> the cheap laser drivers i have don't seem to be very fast. couple khz max
2022-02-10T02:06:40 < sauce> not hard to diy a faster one but lasers are kinda fragile
2022-02-10T02:07:09 < bitmask> fragile how
2022-02-10T02:07:24 < BrainDamage> dvd burner lazors can be chopped fast
2022-02-10T02:07:33 < bitmask> turning on/off?
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2022-02-10T02:08:10 < BrainDamage> yes, they are pretty delicate thermally-wise
2022-02-10T02:08:15 < bitmask> hmm
2022-02-10T02:08:49 < BrainDamage> 10 years ago I had a blue-ray laser, at 55°C it had a lifespan of 8h
2022-02-10T02:09:05 < BrainDamage> at 50°C 80h
2022-02-10T02:09:08 < BrainDamage> etc
2022-02-10T02:09:34 < BrainDamage> so even few degrees of thermal energy was significantly breaking it, that kind of fragile
2022-02-10T02:10:11 < BrainDamage> now you plan to continously vary the power, you can imagine this puts extra stress on it, even if it just sees the average
2022-02-10T02:10:35 < BrainDamage> ( bright pic vs dark pic )
2022-02-10T02:10:49 < bitmask> what about pwm
2022-02-10T02:11:01 < bitmask> isnt that more common
2022-02-10T02:11:14 < BrainDamage> changes nothing about what I said
2022-02-10T02:11:18 < kakium69> BrainDamage: how about 40C?
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2022-02-10T02:11:27 < kakium69> 8000h?
2022-02-10T02:11:39 < BrainDamage> kakium69: I don't remember every point of a datasheet I've read 10 years ago
2022-02-10T02:11:50 < BrainDamage> I just remember those 2 because they were remarkable
2022-02-10T02:12:14 < kakium69> did it have integrated thermal sensor?
2022-02-10T02:12:19 < BrainDamage> no
2022-02-10T02:12:19 < bitmask> i know temperature is temperature but it soudned like sauce was saying fast = bad so i dont understand how the two relate
2022-02-10T02:12:31 < bitmask> unless it draws more power on startup for some reason
2022-02-10T02:12:46 < BrainDamage> bitmask: you're changing the temperature when you change the power, through pwm or not
2022-02-10T02:12:47 < sauce> no i was just too much of a wuss to diy a driver because i know how easy it is to burn them with overcurrent or esd
2022-02-10T02:13:13 < bitmask> yea im not talking about temperature
2022-02-10T02:13:37 < BrainDamage> I used a shitty lm317, didn't burn
2022-02-10T02:14:09 < BrainDamage> just measure the current before wiring the diode
2022-02-10T02:19:24 < sauce> id certainly be up to it now, dont think i even had a digital scope at that point
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2022-02-10T02:34:22 < englishman> well the drivers are included in the galvos and they work fine. it's a fine goal but i hate duplication of effort
2022-02-10T02:36:25 < bitmask> ive seen those before I just didnt think they were fast enough
2022-02-10T02:36:42 < bitmask> so maybe im doing more excessive work than I expected
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2022-02-10T02:58:53 < kakium69> I have teams interview tommorow
2022-02-10T02:59:19 < kakium69> maybe I should shed some of my wizard beard
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2022-02-10T12:14:53 < karlp> lol, ali trolling again.  1 unit, 3.65, free shipping. 2 units, 4.23 shipping...
2022-02-10T12:16:13 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-10T12:16:40 < Steffann> And when you order 2 separately they'll ship them together. At least that's what happens here lately. 
2022-02-10T12:16:52 < Steffann> Even ordered from two different sellers
2022-02-10T12:20:54 < karlp> sshipping date estimated may 15....
2022-02-10T12:20:57 < karlp> more trolling
2022-02-10T12:22:23 < karlp> fucking now I have to find usb-c cables that have all the pins too, 
2022-02-10T12:24:02 < karlp> "standard usb 3.0, about 480Mbps" so that's usb2.0...
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2022-02-10T12:30:53 < c10ud> looks like stm32h7 is trolling me with full duplex spi at 20mhz
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2022-02-10T12:32:00 < c10ud> even doing what the errata is saying i sometimes get locks i.e. not reading data correctly and/or the mcu not enabling the peripheral even if the procedure is quite simple...
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2022-02-10T12:32:48 < c10ud> looks like it's speculating on instructions lol
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2022-02-10T12:37:55 < c10ud> now, how in the actual fuck is supposed to lock in here
2022-02-10T12:37:56 < c10ud> https://nopaste.net/nIziHU6DgO
2022-02-10T12:38:06 < c10ud> with SPE = 0
2022-02-10T12:38:39 < c10ud> at the last byte of n_bytes
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2022-02-10T12:40:17 < zyp> karlp, «all the pins» as in a regular usb3 usb-c cable?
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2022-02-10T12:41:07 < ventYl> c10ud: i wasn't able to make that working no matter what
2022-02-10T12:41:26 < c10ud> full duplex spi on h7?
2022-02-10T12:41:28 < ventYl> IIRC, when I did that, SCK gone wild
2022-02-10T12:41:32 < c10ud> at high freqs?
2022-02-10T12:41:36 < ventYl> transfer size 0
2022-02-10T12:41:41 < c10ud> ah ok
2022-02-10T12:41:58 < c10ud> yes in fact i was just about to try putting back eot 
2022-02-10T12:42:09 < c10ud> even if i'm not using it
2022-02-10T12:42:11 < c10ud> duh
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2022-02-10T12:43:27 < ventYl> and oh, there are three revisions of h7 with three different erratas
2022-02-10T12:43:46 < c10ud> oh, nice
2022-02-10T12:43:56 < c10ud> is there any bulletproof method?
2022-02-10T12:44:20 < ventYl> of what? identifying revision? yeah, it is encoded in PN
2022-02-10T12:44:34 < karlp> zyp: yeah, lots of c-c cables on ali are advertising as being 100W, 65W, and then later in the description, "fast transfer 480Mbps!"
2022-02-10T12:44:40 < c10ud> no I mean of setting registers so that spi works as expected
2022-02-10T12:44:52 < karlp> and you need to find ones explicitly labeleld as usb3.1 or 3.2 or 4 
2022-02-10T12:44:55 < zyp> sure
2022-02-10T12:45:03 < zyp> power and speed are orthogonal
2022-02-10T12:45:10 < c10ud> because spi enable/disable didn't work for me, and the TSIZE=0 neither
2022-02-10T12:45:16 < karlp> I know, I just searched for usb-c to usb-c first :)
2022-02-10T12:45:38 < c10ud> I have a simple function wait txp; tx; wait rxp; rx 
2022-02-10T12:45:54 < ventYl> c10ud: wait a second, i'll check my source code
2022-02-10T12:46:03 < c10ud> 20Mhz with sysclk=400
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2022-02-10T12:46:15 < zyp> I think I still only own a grand total of two usb3 c-c cables
2022-02-10T12:46:39 < zyp> one that's 15cm that came with the docking station, and another that's 1m that I usually use with the docking station instead
2022-02-10T12:47:14 < zyp> and then I have another couple at work that came with the monitors
2022-02-10T12:48:04 < zyp> IIRC the monitors came with hdmi and usb-c cables, but not actually the displayport cables that I needed
2022-02-10T12:48:30 < ventYl> c10ud: was it working for you at slower speeds?
2022-02-10T12:49:20 < c10ud> i am using a bunch of spi uarts, it does work even at full speed provided there's no tight traffic
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2022-02-10T12:49:55 < c10ud> ie. it locks spi transfers when a uart-rx is available as soon as a tx is done
2022-02-10T12:50:20 < c10ud> but it's not because i mess up with the spi...every function runs in its own task
2022-02-10T12:50:42 < c10ud> interrupts just set flags then the spi thing is done inside tasks
2022-02-10T12:51:25 < c10ud> as soon as I do the uart loopback it fucks up the spi peripheral
2022-02-10T12:51:29 < c10ud> i will try at lower speeds tho
2022-02-10T12:55:17 < c10ud> ventYl, looks like it's fucked up even at lower speeds (eg. 150khz)
2022-02-10T12:59:54 < ventYl> c10ud: i don't remember this kind of lock up
2022-02-10T13:00:05 < ventYl> but this peripheral was indeed behaving weirdly
2022-02-10T13:00:52 < c10ud> the behaviour is indeed different when transfer size is set or not, and affects the txp/rxp registers
2022-02-10T13:01:45 < ventYl> my behavior was that when I set txsize to 0 and sent just one byte, SCK was still clocking bits even if there was no data in txp
2022-02-10T13:02:06 < ventYl> maybe it even started clocking TXP straight without even me sending a byte
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2022-02-10T13:05:36 < c10ud> my issue looks like eot being set after 1st byte is transmitted
2022-02-10T13:06:14 < c10ud> nah not really
2022-02-10T13:10:27 < karlp> so zyp, how insane do you think this is? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kisqb/usb-c-rs485-hack1.pdf
2022-02-10T13:11:03 < karlp> using usb-c-c cables for daisy chaining rs485, and still allowing "plain" usb to the first device if you plug straight in...
2022-02-10T13:11:34 < karlp> I _believe_ this is legal without having to do PD alt mode negotiation as I'm not taking over the HS lanes...
2022-02-10T13:13:08 < zyp> first of all, it's not legal to unconditionally power a receptacle
2022-02-10T13:14:21 < zyp> but as far as usb-c hacks go, this doesn't look bad
2022-02-10T13:16:09 < karlp> I know i'm not _meant_ to power a receptacle, I saw that, 
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2022-02-10T13:16:19 < karlp> in theory I'm meant to have a switch on the vbus DFP right?
2022-02-10T13:16:36 < karlp> seems pretty minor violation, but also wouldn't be hard to do properly really.
2022-02-10T13:16:56 < zyp> yeah, you're only supposed to output vbus once you've detected a DFP
2022-02-10T13:17:40 < karlp> given that it's not pd capable source anyway, can probably be donewith discretes to switch it,
2022-02-10T13:17:46 < zyp> the spec says something about allowed voltage ranges for pins when unnegotiated
2022-02-10T13:18:01 < karlp> wouldn'ðt reallllly like to have power down the daisychain depending on the software of every device...
2022-02-10T13:18:05 < zyp> as long as the RS485 signal is not violating it for SBU, I'd say you're good
2022-02-10T13:18:33 < karlp> well, I'd only be using 3.3v transceivers anyway, so I _think_ it's pretty good :)
2022-02-10T13:18:37 < zyp> inline switch in every device sounds like a pointless voltage drop in your case
2022-02-10T13:18:43 < zyp> you might be :)
2022-02-10T13:19:03 < karlp> eh, the DFP bit would only be used if you were doing this daisy chaining anwyay,
2022-02-10T13:19:14 < zyp> OTOH I don't think the usb2 cables got SBU, and it sounds kinda overkill to require full featured cables
2022-02-10T13:19:27 < karlp> the "real usb" would be a proper host to the UFP only.
2022-02-10T13:19:33 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-10T13:19:54 < karlp> yeah, but looking around, full featured isn't actually meaningfully more expensive anyway, ifyou "accept" "only" 60W usb3 cables...
2022-02-10T13:20:45 < karlp> but yes, given the idea is both a) commodity compact cables and b) compact connectors, requiring "special" cables is... a concern, but not really a big deal if we would be selling them with our shit anyway..
2022-02-10T13:20:47 < zyp> I'd be tempted to just mux RS485 on the data pins and use a nonstandard pullup on the DFP to signal RS485 mode
2022-02-10T13:21:13 < zyp> then sense UFP CC to mux between RS485 or USB
2022-02-10T13:21:16 < karlp> yeah, I thought about the way audio accesory mode works, and just take over the dm/dp pins
2022-02-10T13:21:21 < zyp> yes
2022-02-10T13:21:26 < karlp> that seemed like it might need a little more smarts,
2022-02-10T13:21:58 < zyp> nah, you'll need a mux between USB and RS485, but you don't need the orientation mux you got now
2022-02-10T13:22:08 < zyp> and you already got the sensing, so it's all there
2022-02-10T13:22:21 < karlp> and given how many devics and shit out there do badly with broken/nonstandard CC pulls, it seemed risky.
2022-02-10T13:22:33 < zyp> that might be
2022-02-10T13:23:25 < zyp> but still, what's the worst issue of hooking USB to the RS485 bus? :)
2022-02-10T13:23:37 < karlp> probbaly nothing really.
2022-02-10T13:23:42 < karlp> rs485 won't care at least,
2022-02-10T13:23:59 < karlp> and no sane DFP will give me more than 5V without PD, so should be pretty safe really.
2022-02-10T13:24:04 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-10T13:24:53 < karlp> think I might callthis "feasible" andshelve it until it gets to this point.
2022-02-10T13:25:40 < karlp> doing muxes on the DM/DP pins needs "proper" usb muxes, 
2022-02-10T13:25:55 < karlp> except, I'd only be doing usb-fs anywya, so probably "yolo, whatever switches switches" is fine too.
2022-02-10T13:26:27 < benishor> hmm ... how the heck do I get to piggyback in an pwm interrupt with HAL?
2022-02-10T13:30:14 < karlp> now, two canon .cr2 files, different md5sums.  look "the same" in a viewer, exiftool says only difference is path and inode change time...
2022-02-10T13:30:21 < karlp> why do they have different md5s?
2022-02-10T13:30:30 < karlp> which one is _really_ corrupt...
2022-02-10T13:30:47 < karlp> I have my suspicions of coursse, as why else was I looking at this... but... wat?
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2022-02-10T14:04:38 < benishor> found it. it was HAL_TIM_PWM_PulseFinishedCallback
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2022-02-10T15:52:37 < karlp> alright, stop2 modes on l4 and wb both work, on same code at least...
2022-02-10T15:52:49 < karlp> lpsleep seems busted on wb still, it's way higher.
2022-02-10T15:53:12 < karlp> stop2 is l4:wb-> 27:3.7, lpsleep is 60:400
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2022-02-10T18:35:42 < benishor> so, I'm trying to use ADC with HAL. if I manually poll, I get the expected readings, however DMA seems to be quite a bitch to configure
2022-02-10T18:37:17 < benishor> I configured ADC with right alignment, regular conversion launched by sw, 1 conversion and added a dma channel
2022-02-10T18:38:00 < benishor> I configured the DMA request with half word data width as I'm trying to read a uint16_t
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2022-02-10T18:38:55 < benishor> I then issue a HAL_ADC_Start_DMA(&hadc1, (uint32_t*)&data, 1);
2022-02-10T18:39:07 < benishor> data is a uint16_t
2022-02-10T18:39:45 < benishor> I do get the HAL_TIM_PWM_PulseFinishedCallback called, but the data is nowhere near what I expected
2022-02-10T18:39:48 < benishor> what am I doing wrong?
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2022-02-10T19:21:54 < benishor> now it's working. sort of. I get 255 as max value instead of 4095
2022-02-10T19:22:10 < benishor> we're talking about an stm32f103xx
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2022-02-10T19:41:43 < bitmask> anyone use tasmota?
2022-02-10T19:44:37 < qyx> bitmask: there is a config register for setting data format, 8/12 bit, left/right adjusted
2022-02-10T19:44:59 < bitmask> ?
2022-02-10T19:51:29 < jpa-> qyx: there are characters to distinguish bitmask from benishor 
2022-02-10T19:53:46 < qyx> sor
2022-02-10T19:53:56 < qyx> I always use tab
2022-02-10T19:53:57 < bitmask> :)
2022-02-10T19:53:58 < qyx> benishor: ^
2022-02-10T19:54:05 < qyx> sor<tab>
2022-02-10T19:54:18 < qyx> no worky
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2022-02-10T19:57:54 < bitmask> do any big websites care if you ping them a lot? can I ping google every 3 minutes indefinitely to check for active internet connection?
2022-02-10T19:58:12 < benishor> qyx: I used cubemx for that
2022-02-10T19:58:29 < benishor> actually cubemx doesn't let me set the resolution for stm32f103
2022-02-10T20:00:00 < jpa-> bitmask: you can, but i think i've seen 8.8.8.8 drop pings sometimes just randomly
2022-02-10T20:00:21 < bitmask> ok
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2022-02-10T21:45:31 < mawk> you can have several maybe bitmask 
2022-02-10T21:45:47 < mawk> 1.1.1.1, 1.2.3.4, 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, 9.9.9.9
2022-02-10T21:45:52 < bitmask> yea
2022-02-10T21:45:55 < mawk> if one fails the other won't
2022-02-10T21:46:09 < mawk> you can ping my server also if you want, then if it stops pinging you know I'm dead
2022-02-10T21:46:13 < mawk> 62.210.190.71
2022-02-10T21:46:21 < bitmask> heh
2022-02-10T21:46:39 < bitmask> not sure I want my internet depending on your internet :P
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2022-02-10T22:23:15 < Laurenceb_> its a trap
2022-02-10T22:23:22 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1491867911056732175
2022-02-10T22:23:26 < Laurenceb_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson
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2022-02-10T22:54:23 < karlp> zyp: TPS25821 would be "drop in" to "do it right" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/h7FD7.png
2022-02-10T22:54:32 < karlp> I've not looked fora  china part,
2022-02-10T22:54:49 < karlp> there's actually 120 of them in stock even :)
2022-02-10T23:06:30 < karlp> fuck me this is cheap though: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-ICs_CoreChips-SL2-1s_C2684433.html
2022-02-10T23:27:01 < Laurenceb_> https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=20772601&cid=62256409
2022-02-10T23:30:44 < karlp> this looks like kicad I think: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/RpyKQ.png
2022-02-10T23:33:38 < qyx> how dare you draw the ref resistor that way
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2022-02-10T23:37:27 < karlp> what do yuou want me to do with it?
2022-02-10T23:37:44 < karlp> give it it's own little gnd symbol like a precious snowflake?
2022-02-10T23:37:54 < karlp> this is a pretty fucking raw ideas schematic,
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2022-02-10T23:42:20 < Steffanx> Lol grumpy much?
2022-02-10T23:45:43 < karlp> I'm excited,
2022-02-10T23:45:49 < karlp> I'm proud of my crazy child.
2022-02-10T23:57:37 < Steffanx> OK 😅
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2022-02-11T01:25:31 < zyp> karlp, fun fun
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2022-02-11T01:44:31 < machinehum> You can't stick a 0.4/0.8mm via in a BGA pad right?
2022-02-11T01:45:01 < zyp> that would be a really coarse pitch bga
2022-02-11T01:45:54 < zyp> the diameter of a bga pad is usually half the pitch or so
2022-02-11T01:46:24 < machinehum> 0.8mm pitch
2022-02-11T01:47:35 < zyp> you generally don't want vias in bga pads at all unless you pay to have them filled
2022-02-11T01:47:53 < zyp> otherwise the hole will wick away your solder and fuck up the joint
2022-02-11T01:49:45 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2022-02-11T01:50:44 < zyp> the usual way to fan out a bga on a cheap process is to place the vias diagonally between the pads
2022-02-11T01:53:06 < zyp> I usually think of a bga footprint in terms of rings, e.g. a 16x16 bga256 has 8 rings
2022-02-11T01:55:25 < zyp> the theoretical way to escape signals is then outer two rings on the top layer (signals from second ring passes between pads for first ring, and then another layer escapes rings 3 and 4 (ring 4 signals can pass between ring 3 vias
2022-02-11T01:56:41 < zyp> and for each ring past the first four you need another layer, since you now still need to pass between the already placed vias
2022-02-11T01:58:19 < zyp> in practice there might be footprint tricks to make it easier or more considerations that makes it harder
2022-02-11T01:59:10 < zyp> but four-five rings of signals and a bunch of gnd/power in the center is doable on 4L, especially if you don't need all signals
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2022-02-11T02:39:15 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7uJsOAtFE
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2022-02-11T04:47:43 < machinehum> zyp: Yeah
2022-02-11T04:47:46 < machinehum> That's what I did before
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2022-02-11T08:10:02 < benishor> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umarell
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2022-02-11T08:50:05 < benishor> what must I configure in order to get ADC + DMA to trigger continuously?
2022-02-11T09:08:34 < jpa-> set CONT bit in ADC
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2022-02-11T09:46:08 < benishor> thanks jpa-, I'll do it by hand, hal doesn't seem to work for some reason
2022-02-11T09:53:37 < jpa-> it probably works if you give it correct arguments, but HAL usually just makes things more difficult
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2022-02-11T10:22:54 < benishor> lol, impossibru problem: ADC + DMA, regular conversion into an uint16_t variable. after a conversion ends, the variable contains the 8 bit variant of the conversion, whereas ADC1->DR contains the 12bit value. creating a new project with just the ADC+DMA reading (same code), returns the expected 12bit value
2022-02-11T10:23:08 < benishor> I have no idea what causes it and it pisses me off
2022-02-11T10:38:35 < mawk> alignment maybe
2022-02-11T10:39:00 < mawk> use the new project and paste your old code bit by bit to see what is wrong
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2022-02-11T11:03:42 < mawk> the fabricator left fluxes on our boards
2022-02-11T11:03:48 < mawk> conductive flux
2022-02-11T11:04:01 < mawk> and it drained the battery of a thousand sensors
2022-02-11T11:04:09 < mawk> before they could even be installed
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2022-02-11T11:51:28 < benishor> mawk: I finally got it to work but I have no idea why it works. what I did: I created a new project and configured the very same cubemx setup, then generated code and overwrote the existing Core and Drivers
2022-02-11T11:51:59 < ventYl> isn't there any different in any relevant part of project?
2022-02-11T11:53:35 < benishor> possibly a cubemx difference. the initial project I created from CLion which has its own embedded mx whereas the new project I created with cubeide with yet another mx version
2022-02-11T11:53:45 < benishor> although the versions look close
2022-02-11T11:53:54 < benishor> fuck knows what happened
2022-02-11T11:54:34 < benishor> the weird part is that I then took the "new" .ioc file, placed it in my CLion project, generated code from it from within CLion's mx and it works
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2022-02-11T12:28:28 < benishor> damn how costly _printf_float is
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2022-02-11T12:44:05 < karlp> trace, and/or printf("lol floats: %d", (int)myfloat*1000)
2022-02-11T12:44:20 < karlp> are you sure you're using nano specs?
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2022-02-11T12:49:44 < mawk> benishor: it requires malloc and all
2022-02-11T12:49:46 < mawk> so quite costly
2022-02-11T12:49:52 < mawk> so don't use it directly
2022-02-11T12:49:56 < mawk> do what karlp says, or use rounding maybe
2022-02-11T12:50:15 < mawk> or whatever precision you want
2022-02-11T12:57:00 < benishor> karlp: I did that already, but I missed the point
2022-02-11T12:57:13 < benishor> and yes, I am using nano specs. what should have happened?
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2022-02-11T14:24:21 < karlp> ooh sneaky,gd32 in qfn28 is 0.4mm pitch, that's a little tight :)
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2022-02-11T14:41:19 < karlp> heh, cheapest usb capable micro, in stock on lcsc, that's cortex/riscv (aint no body got time for 8051 shits) is esp32c3..
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2022-02-11T14:45:19 < karlp> ah, of course, it's the ones without flash
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2022-02-11T16:02:57 < kakium69> is "connected to internets" nothing more but ping to dns?
2022-02-11T16:03:10 < kakium69> anything more*
2022-02-11T16:03:24 < kakium69> in windows ie.
2022-02-11T16:11:10 < karlp> schweet, wb low power bluetooth finally working
2022-02-11T16:11:24 < karlp> looks like I was missing a clause about wakeup clock _must_ be hsi
2022-02-11T16:17:46 < mawk> if dns or ping work you can assume internet works karlp 
2022-02-11T16:17:47 < mawk> kakium69: *
2022-02-11T16:18:04 < mawk> because there is no one true test anyway, you would need to check all protocols on all routes to know if you have full "internet" access
2022-02-11T16:18:18 < kakium69> that is why I ask
2022-02-11T16:18:46 < kakium69> does win10 do some more trickery to determine state of connection?
2022-02-11T16:19:02 < mawk> it does a tcp request to some windows server if I remember correctly
2022-02-11T16:19:05 < mawk> http probably
2022-02-11T16:19:14 < mawk> chrome does the same to detect if internet is there or if it's a captive portal
2022-02-11T16:19:14 < karlp> there's actually a lot of probing done.
2022-02-11T16:19:27 < karlp> all sort sof magic domains for captive portal shits too yeah
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2022-02-11T16:32:37 < drzacek> hello there
2022-02-11T16:33:05 < drzacek> I'm using stm32cubeide. Created new project, set it to be c++. BUT! IT still generates .c files instead of .cpp
2022-02-11T16:33:32 < drzacek> wouldn't care too much, but it decides if it should use c or c++ compiler solely based on the filename extension
2022-02-11T16:34:18 < drzacek> sooo a way to make it generate proper c++, or force it to use c++ compiler regardless of the filename? Renaming is not an option, cause new generating after changing something in .ioc makes .c files again
2022-02-11T16:35:57 < mawk> [15:33:32] <drzacek> wouldn't care too much, but it decides if it should use c or c++ compiler solely based on the filename extension
2022-02-11T16:36:02 < mawk> yes that's what compilers do
2022-02-11T16:36:08 < mawk> leave the cube-generated files in .c
2022-02-11T16:36:12 < mawk> and write your own code in .cc files
2022-02-11T16:36:16 < mawk> both C and C++ can inter-operate
2022-02-11T16:36:31 < drzacek> with those ugly extern thingies
2022-02-11T16:36:35 < mawk> for all functions meant to be called from C you have to prefix them with extern "C"
2022-02-11T16:36:36 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-11T16:36:41 < mawk> but the interface functions should be just a few
2022-02-11T16:36:45 < mawk> like your IRQ handlers or callbacks or whatever
2022-02-11T16:36:52 < mawk> the rest can be in C++ only
2022-02-11T16:36:54 < drzacek> well I *COULD*, but why does it offer me to make a c++ project in the first place?
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2022-02-11T16:37:21 < mawk> I'm not sure what that is for, maybe just allow you to build C++ files 
2022-02-11T16:37:38 < mawk> the code generated by cube is C but it's not a big problem, it's not a lot of code
2022-02-11T16:37:54 < mawk> go find the main() or whatever generated by cube, and call your C++ main from it
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2022-02-11T16:38:20 < drzacek> okay
2022-02-11T16:38:26 < drzacek> if that's how they want. I just found it confusing
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2022-02-11T16:40:08 < karlp> feck, and now it's failing, just when I dleeted comments.
2022-02-11T16:40:12 < karlp> bah
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2022-02-11T16:52:13  * GenTooMan checks parts lead times because it's like watching paint dry.
2022-02-11T16:54:18 < kakium69> 27years?
2022-02-11T16:55:05 < drzacek> but
2022-02-11T16:55:13 < drzacek> if I want to use spi and hal functions
2022-02-11T16:55:26 < drzacek> I need to go back to extern C. ah fuck, it's gonna be ugly
2022-02-11T16:59:00 < mawk> why drzacek 
2022-02-11T16:59:02 < karlp> you'rein bog standard "I'm planning on mixing c and c++ in my project" land... yes.
2022-02-11T16:59:03 < mawk> you don't need that
2022-02-11T16:59:19 < mawk> you can use C functions from C++ without the need for extern "C" in your C++
2022-02-11T16:59:19 < karlp> but the C decls are hopefully already extern "C" {}'d
2022-02-11T16:59:24 < mawk> extern "C" goes in the bits that C++ is calling
2022-02-11T16:59:26 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-11T16:59:34 < mawk> if they're not, it's just a matter of adding them around the #include
2022-02-11T16:59:41 < mawk> extern "C" { #include <crap.h> }
2022-02-11T16:59:49 < mawk> or in the file directly if you're not a dirty pig
2022-02-11T17:00:11 < karlp> ok, so sometimes, nrf connect fails to connect now that I'm in low power modes.
2022-02-11T17:00:15 < karlp> but efr connect always works :)
2022-02-11T17:00:19 < drzacek> I naively expected it to be completely in c++ (and the required c parts to be already handled and shielded from me), since it offers me c++ as option when creating
2022-02-11T17:00:27 < karlp> I'm betting there's some events the demo apps and I aren't handling properly...
2022-02-11T17:00:30 < drzacek> like, why bother anyway, this option didn;t changed anything
2022-02-11T17:00:42 < karlp> the c/c++ options is probably a default from eclipse...
2022-02-11T17:00:55 < mawk> drzacek: it doesn't matter that the standard lib is in C, you can call it from C++ without any magic
2022-02-11T17:00:57 < karlp> you should use laks if you want to use c++ :)
2022-02-11T17:01:03 < karlp> or mbed, or arduino...
2022-02-11T17:01:38 < drzacek> hate arduino
2022-02-11T17:01:46 < drzacek> karlp, thats the point. I wanna use c++
2022-02-11T17:02:03 < mawk> try laks then
2022-02-11T17:02:11  * drzacek googles laks
2022-02-11T17:02:18  * karlp wonders if that evenworks :)
2022-02-11T17:02:22 < drzacek> looks like a big red fish
2022-02-11T17:03:26 < drzacek> okay then, I'm creating something like cppmain.cpp/.hpp, include it in the main.c, call the cppmain() function from there, and gonna handle my stuff from there
2022-02-11T17:03:41 < drzacek> *I'm gonna make my own main(), with blackjack and hookers!*
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2022-02-11T17:40:49 < karlp> starting to wonder if lprun is even possible
2022-02-11T17:40:58 < karlp> seems odd that stop is allowed, but not lprun?
2022-02-11T17:44:06 < mawk> is it legal to cook pasta in a pressure cooker BrainDamage ?
2022-02-11T17:44:16 < karlp> hah it's not
2022-02-11T17:44:20 < karlp> fuck
2022-02-11T17:44:24 < karlp> what a waste of time
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2022-02-11T17:48:06 < karlp> rekt: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/y5YsL/stm32wb-no-radio-plus-adc-plus-lowpower.png
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2022-02-11T18:26:01 < c10ud> ltdc is leaking some red through my rgb666 connected display
2022-02-11T18:26:07 < c10ud> even if i'm running it at 565
2022-02-11T18:26:20 < c10ud> i have a parallel-to-lvds converter in between
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2022-02-11T19:15:45 < kakium69> hello evening
2022-02-11T19:19:40 < kakium69> it's good evenings
2022-02-11T19:24:11 -!- brdb [~alarm@24.61.226.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-11T19:24:25 < hiovoltage> goog evening kakium69
2022-02-11T19:25:09 < kakium69> how is weekend hiovoltage?
2022-02-11T19:25:56 -!- brdb [~alarm@24.61.226.255] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-11T19:32:22 < hiovoltage> i resigned from my job, just chilling
2022-02-11T19:32:28 < hiovoltage> how is yours?
2022-02-11T19:34:45 < Steffanx> I resigned for the weekend as well.
2022-02-11T19:35:14 < Steffanx> Are you retired now, hiovoltage ?
2022-02-11T19:36:24 < mawk> why are you all old
2022-02-11T19:36:31 < mawk> am I the youngest here
2022-02-11T19:36:37 < mawk> besides mouseghost who's 16
2022-02-11T19:36:50 < mawk> how old is zyp
2022-02-11T19:45:32 < BrainDamage> mawk: legal is legal, I question the gain you'll get
2022-02-11T19:46:02 < BrainDamage> also, the risk of overcooking is high
2022-02-11T19:46:30 < BrainDamage> if you want fast pasta, do like the restaurants, cook it halfway then dump in cold/freezing water
2022-02-11T19:46:54 < BrainDamage> then freeze it
2022-02-11T19:47:02 < BrainDamage> then have a constantly boiling pot of water where you dump the pasta to finish cooking 2 min and take it out
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2022-02-11T19:47:29 < englishman> fresh pasta isn't that tough to make and cooks in 30s - 1min
2022-02-11T19:47:44 < BrainDamage> most of the time you waste when cooking pasta is bringing water to a boil, with pressure cooker you make that time even longer
2022-02-11T19:47:51 < BrainDamage> since it has to reach 130°C or so
2022-02-11T19:48:20 < BrainDamage> pasta itself takes 10 min when dry
2022-02-11T19:49:01 < sauce> arrested for pasta crimes
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2022-02-11T19:51:57 < kakium69> hiovoltage: resigned recently? tell more
2022-02-11T19:52:25 < kakium69> me: I'm in a flow now
2022-02-11T19:52:34 < kakium69> this project is done in no time
2022-02-11T20:00:11 < Steffanx> What is kakium69  up to?
2022-02-11T20:00:46 < kakium69> I'll show you later
2022-02-11T20:01:34 < Steffanx> Does it involve AVR?
2022-02-11T20:04:10 < kakium69> ye
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2022-02-11T20:20:48 < mawk> thanks BrainDamage 
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2022-02-11T21:11:25 < machinehum> Guys I have a problem
2022-02-11T21:12:06 < BrainDamage> being in this channel, I know, it's a common one at least
2022-02-11T21:12:40 < Steffanx> same-same.
2022-02-11T21:13:05 < Steffanx> Are you pregnant machinehum?
2022-02-11T21:13:23 < machinehum> I'm fat
2022-02-11T21:13:41 < machinehum> common?
2022-02-11T21:17:49 < Steffanx> hmm
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2022-02-11T22:11:38 < kakium69> machinehum: that's very rare condition
2022-02-11T22:11:51 < machinehum>  *phat
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2022-02-11T22:21:20 < Steffanx> so what will you do about it mr machinehum?
2022-02-11T22:24:13 < machinehum> snort diuretics
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2022-02-11T22:48:18 < Steffanx> Sounds fun. 
2022-02-11T22:48:48 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-11T22:51:21 < qyx> does it work?
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2022-02-11T23:00:55 < jadew> has everyone gone fucking insane?
2022-02-11T23:01:10 < jpa-> i have, have you?
2022-02-11T23:01:22 < jadew> why is the price of tungsten cubes so freaking high?
2022-02-11T23:01:31 < jadew> 200 EUR for a stupid 1kg cube?
2022-02-11T23:07:44 < machinehum> What you using that for?
2022-02-11T23:07:52 < jadew> paper weight
2022-02-11T23:08:22 < jadew> my fume extractor likes to topple down
2022-02-11T23:08:31 -!- MrBIOS [~textual@2603:3024:1435:b100:a53f:94b9:db50:1bc0] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-11T23:08:38 < jadew> and I always use my pliers as a weight, but then I can't use my pliers :)
2022-02-11T23:08:48 -!- hiovoltage [~hiovoltag@176.88.87.168] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-02-11T23:09:18 < jadew> so I figured I could fix it with 1 kg of tungsten or gold
2022-02-11T23:09:41 < jadew> it's a flipcoin really
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2022-02-11T23:11:01 < machinehum> I see
2022-02-11T23:11:21 < jadew> guess I'll have to let it topple
2022-02-11T23:11:29 < Steffanx> Buy a rock, zyp has rocks
2022-02-11T23:11:32 < jadew> I'm not paying 200 EUR for a cube
2022-02-11T23:11:45 < jadew> I have rocks too, but I wanted something compact
2022-02-11T23:11:52 < jpa-> glue it to table
2022-02-11T23:12:07 < jadew> :)
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2022-02-11T23:12:19 < machinehum> Freeze water
2022-02-11T23:12:22 < machinehum> Use that
2022-02-11T23:12:31 < kakium69> depleted uranium would be heavy and maybe cheap too
2022-02-11T23:12:48 < jpa-> lead is cheap also
2022-02-11T23:12:57 < kakium69> hmm
2022-02-11T23:13:01 < kakium69> and less poisonous
2022-02-11T23:13:45 < kakium69> you don't get gulf war syndrome with lead
2022-02-11T23:27:09 < kakium69> can I make a variable in c++ that had address assigned to it? not a pointer but a variable
2022-02-11T23:30:07 < kakium69> maybe a gcc attribute?
2022-02-11T23:32:35 < kakium69> if I want status flag to be in IO mem and get benefit of quick access
2022-02-11T23:33:19 < machinehum> I had a teacher show me how to do this once
2022-02-11T23:33:23 < machinehum> Let me check
2022-02-11T23:33:56 < kakium69> really it's possible??
2022-02-11T23:34:01 < machinehum> Maybe
2022-02-11T23:34:05 < machinehum> One sec
2022-02-11T23:34:08 < machinehum> Maybe not
2022-02-11T23:36:12 < kakium69> maybe I just use macro define #define status_flag GPIOR0
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2022-02-11T23:40:03 < kakium69> I have never seen AVR C startup.. I wonder where it is
2022-02-11T23:40:28 < jadew> nowhere
2022-02-11T23:40:50 < jadew> ah you mean for setting up the stack?
2022-02-11T23:41:21 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-11T23:41:35 < kakium69> I mean something
2022-02-11T23:41:48 < karlp> ahh delightful.  simplicity studio still refuses to run on wayland...
2022-02-11T23:42:20 < kakium69> what you doing with silabser karlp?
2022-02-11T23:42:30 < karlp> considering how quickly I can port shit from wb :)
2022-02-11T23:43:14 < kakium69> wb?
2022-02-11T23:43:47 < kakium69> I have one silabs chip there in a bag
2022-02-11T23:44:00 < jadew> I checked some of my ASM code for AVR and there's no setup
2022-02-11T23:44:10 < jadew> you just jump to main from the reset handler and that's it
2022-02-11T23:44:24 < kakium69> where is reset handler :o
2022-02-11T23:44:29 < jadew> 0
2022-02-11T23:44:44 < kakium69> I mean what file has default handlers
2022-02-11T23:44:50 < jadew> it starts with event table
2022-02-11T23:45:10 < jadew> in C, you define the handlers wherever you want
2022-02-11T23:45:19 < jadew> but in the code, they're going to be at address 0
2022-02-11T23:45:33 < jadew> you have the jump table first, then whatever else you want
2022-02-11T23:47:38 < kakium69> does it jump to main or start from certain address?
2022-02-11T23:47:56 < jadew> first instruction is a jump to main
2022-02-11T23:48:50 < kakium69> I wonder if gcc emits that jump instruction
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2022-02-11T23:49:36 < jadew> if it didn't, it wouldn't work
2022-02-11T23:52:08 < jadew> looks like I made a DHT11 to one-wire protocol conversion firmware that would fit in 700 bytes
2022-02-11T23:52:32 < karlp> are dht11 even rmeotely cost effective anymore?
2022-02-11T23:52:44 < jadew> don't know, this is kinda old
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2022-02-11T23:53:11 < jadew> attiny13 was the smallest AVR you could get at the time
2022-02-11T23:53:36 < karlp> oh, you didn't make this now? you used a tiny13 to connect to the jumbotron dht11?
2022-02-11T23:54:11 < jadew> no, didn't make it now
2022-02-11T23:54:42 < jadew> it looks like I made the tiny13 behave like a regular one-wire device, but it was actually querying the DHT11
2022-02-11T23:55:41 < jadew> not sure why I didn't just talk the DHT protocol directly
2022-02-11T23:56:00 < jadew> (from the main whatever project it was)
2022-02-11T23:56:12 < jadew> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2022-02-11T23:56:50 < karlp> maybe you had other one wire devices on the one wire?
2022-02-11T23:57:03 < jadew> most likely
2022-02-11T23:57:24 < kakium69> you made dht11 into 1-wire device?
2022-02-11T23:57:28 < jadew> yeah
2022-02-11T23:57:32 < kakium69> have that in git?
2022-02-11T23:57:32 < karlp> one shitty protocol into another...
2022-02-11T23:57:44 < karlp> in atttiny13 asm? what are going to do with it?
2022-02-11T23:57:44 < jadew> I don't do opensource
2022-02-11T23:57:49 < karlp> you'd need to re-write it
2022-02-11T23:57:50 < kakium69> understandable
2022-02-11T23:58:04 < jadew> but yeah, in attiny13 asm
2022-02-11T23:58:09 < kakium69> ah asm
2022-02-11T23:59:02 < jadew> hah! I signed myself:
2022-02-11T23:59:08 < jadew> ;; jadew @ irc://irc.freenode.org/#avr           ;;
2022-02-11T23:59:26 < jadew> it's from 2012
2022-02-11T23:59:56 < kakium69> hmm UINT8_MAX doesn't work with c++
--- Day changed Sat Feb 12 2022
2022-02-12T00:00:05 < jadew> it's 255
2022-02-12T00:00:16 < kakium69>  hmm
2022-02-12T00:00:34 < kakium69> :p
2022-02-12T00:00:37 < jadew> :)
2022-02-12T00:00:59 < kakium69> 255 is hard to get wrong
2022-02-12T00:01:31 < kakium69> maybe I will let it slide
2022-02-12T00:02:10 < jadew> make a different #define if you feel it's important
2022-02-12T00:02:36 < kakium69> it's not
2022-02-12T00:02:49 < BrainDamage> subtract 1 from 0 and let it underflow
2022-02-12T00:02:59 < kakium69> :o
2022-02-12T00:03:20 < kakium69> (uint8_t)(0-1) ?
2022-02-12T00:03:36 < jadew> more like (uint8_t)(0) - 1
2022-02-12T00:03:57 < jadew> more like (uint8_t)(0) - (uint8_t)(1)
2022-02-12T00:04:10 < jadew> I would have nightmares from this
2022-02-12T00:04:36 < BrainDamage> it's perfectly legit in two's complement
2022-02-12T00:05:17 < kakium69> (uint8_t)(-1)
2022-02-12T00:05:25 < BrainDamage> probably casting -1 to uint would work too
2022-02-12T00:05:25 < kakium69> why not this?
2022-02-12T00:05:35 < BrainDamage> depends how smart the compiler is
2022-02-12T00:05:52 < kakium69> I replaced _max with 255
2022-02-12T00:05:59 < kakium69> it's dones
2022-02-12T00:06:40 < BrainDamage> once I didn't know what floating point mantissa size a thing had, so I made it sum 1 until the result would yield the same
2022-02-12T00:06:56 < jadew> numeric_limits<uint8_t>::max()
2022-02-12T00:07:00 < BrainDamage> dumb, but worked perfectly
2022-02-12T00:08:18 < kakium69> jadew: aah
2022-02-12T00:08:21 < kakium69> c++ way
2022-02-12T00:08:32 < kakium69> I will never use that
2022-02-12T00:08:44 < jadew> would solve your problem
2022-02-12T00:09:01 < kakium69> that thing is template thing
2022-02-12T00:09:06 < kakium69> too
2022-02-12T00:09:10 < jadew> then you could make everything into a template and be like numeric_limits<ArchT>::max()
2022-02-12T00:09:35 < jadew> so you could swap architectures easily and work with the optimum int size :P
2022-02-12T00:09:58 < kakium69> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/numeric_limits
2022-02-12T00:10:03 < kakium69> interestings
2022-02-12T00:12:49 < karlp> lol /home/karlp/Downloads/SimplicityStudio_v5/developer/toolchains/gnu_arm/10.2_2020q4/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/10.2.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld:/home/karlp/SimplicityStudio/SDKs/gecko_sdk//protocol/bluetooth/lib/EFR32BG22/GCC/binapploader.o:1: syntax error
2022-02-12T00:12:54 < karlp> out of the box...
2022-02-12T00:12:56 < jadew> instead of getting a stupid cube, I could get another omnivise
2022-02-12T00:13:02 < jadew> it also weights 1 kg
2022-02-12T00:13:11 < kakium69> limits: no such file or directory
2022-02-12T00:13:55 < jadew> kakium69, you have to switch to c++ probably, but watch your program size
2022-02-12T00:14:17 < kakium69> I have c++
2022-02-12T00:14:33 < kakium69> but I don't need that thing
2022-02-12T00:14:37 < kakium69> for now
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2022-02-12T00:22:08 < karlp> oh wow, the binapploader.o on disk contains text about bing part of git-lfs and has shas in it, and expected sizes.
2022-02-12T00:22:49 < karlp> I suspect simplicity studio failed to "install" properly...
2022-02-12T00:25:53 < karlp> right, known issue: https://docs.silabs.com/simplicity-studio-5-users-guide/latest/ss-5-users-guide-overview/known-issues 76584
2022-02-12T00:28:51 < kakium69> silabser has stock of chips?
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2022-02-12T00:34:12 < hiovoltage> Steffanx: no, i will open my own company and keep working
2022-02-12T00:34:52 < hiovoltage> It is very difficult to be a salaried employee in our country.
2022-02-12T00:35:13 < karlp> yeah, plenty: https://www.digikey.com/short/4wn20p4w
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2022-02-12T00:50:09 < Steffanx> What country is that hiovoltage  ?
2022-02-12T00:50:51 < hiovoltage> Turkiye
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2022-02-12T10:39:34 < Steffanx> You meant Turkey, hiovoltage  ;)
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2022-02-12T10:41:39 < ventYl> i guess that turkiye is their local name for their own country
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2022-02-12T11:26:42 < Steffanx> VentYl: its what their president wants us to call Turkey. He tried to have the international name changed.
2022-02-12T11:26:52 < Steffanx> I thought it was a meme, but its real.
2022-02-12T11:27:58 < Xogium> god I saw a guy doing one of the stupidest thing ever… Filling an ultrasonic bath with isopropyl alcohol
2022-02-12T11:28:05 < Xogium> a regular ultrasonic bath
2022-02-12T11:28:14 < Xogium> not a blast-proof one
2022-02-12T11:39:43 < Steffanx> I wouldnt be surprised a lot of people do that Xogium 
2022-02-12T11:41:57 < hiovoltage> yeap we are trying to change it's international name. Turkiye is local name
2022-02-12T11:48:59 < Xogium> Steffanx: that's like… Beyond dangerous
2022-02-12T11:49:21 < Xogium> one tiny spark of ESD I bet, and it would go off with a bang
2022-02-12T11:50:40 < zyp> I believe the trick is to put the object in a plastic bag along with a tiny amount of IPA, and then stick the bag in a regular ultrasonic cleaner
2022-02-12T11:51:00 < Xogium> tbh even blast-proof cleaners sound like they are super dangerous, there's very strict instructions to follow like to not use other machines nearby that could cause sparks that could ignite the gas in the air, having a badass fume extractor, all that stuff
2022-02-12T11:52:17 < Xogium> zyp: hmm nop that sounds dangerous because if the bag is totally sealed then pressure inside it as the IPA expands when evaporating into gas will make it explode
2022-02-12T11:52:43 < zyp> much less dangerous than filling up the entire cleaner bath with IPA
2022-02-12T11:53:07 < Xogium> at least, I'd say. I'm not an expert. But I'd say same reason they tell you to never tightly hut glass containers used in these
2022-02-12T11:53:20 < Xogium> *tightly shut
2022-02-12T11:53:39 < Xogium> you need to shut them sure, but enough so the gas can escape
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2022-02-12T11:54:56 < Xogium> but yeah, it probably is less dangerous than filling the entire bath, sure
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2022-02-12T12:00:19 < Xogium> what do you guys use in your ultrasonic baths anyway ?
2022-02-12T12:00:29 < zyp> I don't have one
2022-02-12T12:00:33 < Xogium> I thought deionized water but don't know if that's a good or bad idea
2022-02-12T12:00:45 < Steffanx> Don't have one either 
2022-02-12T12:01:22 < Xogium> hmm really ? Who was it… Someone here has one but I forget who
2022-02-12T12:01:46 < Steffanx> Someone like jadew probably 
2022-02-12T12:02:57 < Xogium> luckily for me I need one but not to clean stuff like a pcb… Just to get dirt off the braille pins
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2022-02-12T12:25:25 < IanW> No point in using DI water, as it will be contaminated instantly. Regular water with a mild detergent, there are special detergents for some applications.
2022-02-12T12:28:06 < Xogium> yeah… I saw about that
2022-02-12T12:28:37 < Xogium> detergent, I mean. I just don't want them to leave a gunk I then would have to remove with IPA anyway after the cleaning :p
2022-02-12T12:29:15 < IanW> If you need a solvent, say IPA, the tank is still filled with water, the solvent and part goes into a beaker and place the beaker into the water, this couples the untrasonics but stops the solvent overheating.
2022-02-12T12:29:46 < Xogium> right, but it still sounds kind of risky since you'll still get gas
2022-02-12T12:30:11 < IanW> Indeed, ventilation is required.
2022-02-12T12:32:34 < Xogium> I just need something simple in my case to get rid of durt and clean the rods that have braille display dots attached to their tips
2022-02-12T12:32:47 < Xogium> I think those are made from ceramic, with a metal dot
2022-02-12T12:32:58 < Xogium> *dirst I meant
2022-02-12T12:33:03 < Xogium> **dirt, damng
2022-02-12T12:33:24 < Xogium> either that or they are full metal
2022-02-12T12:34:24 < IanW> The detergent just stops the dirt removed from the part floating on the surface of the water, it keeps the dirt in suspension. After ultrasoniv cleaning you rinse the part, that would benifit from DI water.
2022-02-12T12:34:28 < Xogium> but problem is that finger oil and dust and stuff get to obstruct the hole where they go in when lowered, so at one point they can't move anymore. But most of that gunk holds onto the rod itself
2022-02-12T12:37:31 < Xogium> so the guy that sent me display explained how to open it up and get the braille pins out of there so I can clean them
2022-02-12T12:37:52 < Xogium> and he said the best way was with an ultrasonic bath, so I've been trying to get informed on these
2022-02-12T12:38:50 < Xogium> I don't want to mess it up more than it currently is, but since noone is near and willing to clean it, I'll have to learn
2022-02-12T12:40:20 < Xogium> payed 250 euros for the old display which was honestly a gift at that price. But it's still worth a couple thousands I'd say given the inflation rate of the euro and the fact that germany still was using their own money when it was produced
2022-02-12T12:40:30 < Xogium> it was worth about 8000 back then apparently
2022-02-12T12:43:20 < Xogium> probably going to require a good clean once every year or so to keep it in shape
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2022-02-12T15:30:02 < tct> Steffanx <3
2022-02-12T15:38:34 < Steffanx> Gooday sir tct
2022-02-12T15:41:45 < tct> hey there
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2022-02-12T16:04:25 < Steffanx> Much good in tctland?
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2022-02-12T16:15:57 < qyx> Xogium: we were using IPA for ultrasonic cleaning
2022-02-12T16:16:13 < Xogium> qyx: scary
2022-02-12T16:16:15 < qyx> never caught fire :P
2022-02-12T16:16:51 < Xogium> qyx: oh no the IPA itself wouldn't, but the gas that it evaporates to certainly can ignite at the tiniest spark
2022-02-12T16:17:45 < qyx> once I was playing with a small IPA burner design
2022-02-12T16:17:53 < qyx> I can say it is really hard to ignite
2022-02-12T16:18:00 < qyx> even heated gases
2022-02-12T16:18:19 < Xogium> strange
2022-02-12T16:18:27 < Xogium> the flash point itself is rather low
2022-02-12T16:23:33 < BrainDamage> Xogium: any non foaming soap will work with the ultrasonic bath
2022-02-12T16:24:28 < Xogium> BrainDamage: hmm yeah ? It's the quantities would I need ? That's what I struggle with
2022-02-12T16:24:32 < Xogium> measuring is hard
2022-02-12T16:25:03 < BrainDamage> just a couple of drops
2022-02-12T16:25:17 < BrainDamage> my cleaner doesn't even fit 1L
2022-02-12T16:25:30 < BrainDamage> if it was a larger bath, i'd just scale linearry
2022-02-12T16:25:58 < Xogium> do you clean pcb with this ?
2022-02-12T16:26:27 < BrainDamage> only the crusty ones
2022-02-12T16:26:38 < BrainDamage> a toothbrush and ipa works for the rest
2022-02-12T16:27:12 < Xogium> heh
2022-02-12T16:27:15 < Xogium> figured so
2022-02-12T16:28:04 < Xogium> friend of mine had a rpi 1 and he  found some weird goop under a bunch of capacitors
2022-02-12T16:28:28 < Xogium> white blob of goop that were not crusty but like  flexible
2022-02-12T16:28:32 < Xogium> like some kind of glue
2022-02-12T16:28:54 < Xogium> visible only with a microscope
2022-02-12T16:29:09 < BrainDamage> it likely was just that - glue
2022-02-12T16:29:32 < Xogium> that did sound yucky
2022-02-12T16:30:07 < BrainDamage> some instead of reflowing faces with solder with diff temps just glue components
2022-02-12T16:30:10 < Xogium> and its funny because the very first thing people told him when he posted pics of this was that it looked like semen
2022-02-12T16:30:25 < Xogium> which is just not logical
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2022-02-12T17:49:37 < Steffanx> so did you tell your gf to go back to dutchland yet, mawk?
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2022-02-12T19:21:40 < Laurenceb> If it wasnt for rapists, none of us would be alive today, since if you look back far enough in any family tree, which expands exponentially, theres got to be at least 1 rape that led to pregnancy
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2022-02-12T19:30:19 < jpa-> If it wasn't for Laurenceb, there wouldn't be any quality chats on this channel. If you look up any month in log when quality chats happened, there was also Laurenceb posting crap.
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2022-02-12T19:58:32 < specing> Laurenceb: this is a good thought
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2022-02-12T20:12:15 < Laurenceb> sheet dolphinsex.com is no more, another source of quality copypasta bits the dust
2022-02-12T20:13:29 < Mangy_Dog> :(
2022-02-12T20:13:37 < Mangy_Dog> goatsx still around?
2022-02-12T20:13:45 < Mangy_Dog> (im not googling for it)
2022-02-12T20:17:37 < Steffanx> There must be mirrors around 
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2022-02-12T22:05:29 < kakium69> evenings
2022-02-12T22:25:08 -!- CatCow [~wtf_over@c-73-96-109-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
2022-02-12T22:34:26 < Steffanx> Lo
2022-02-12T22:43:55 < kakium69> had my first 3 item restaurant dinner today
2022-02-12T22:44:41 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-02-12T22:45:26 < kakium69> or is it 3-part?
2022-02-12T22:49:13 < Steffanx> 3-course
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2022-02-12T23:23:52 < kakium69> https://itnext.io/c-20-modules-complete-guide-ae741ddbae3d wat dis
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 13 2022
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2022-02-13T00:35:04 < bitmask> bahhh
2022-02-13T00:36:01 < bitmask> should I have my smart plug email me when it fixes the internet?
2022-02-13T00:37:35 < BrainDamage> no
2022-02-13T00:37:53 < bitmask> why not
2022-02-13T00:38:01 < BrainDamage> if you had an interruption, you know it already, if you don't know, do you care it happened?
2022-02-13T00:38:23 < BrainDamage> the only thing that might interest you is some statistics on how often it happens
2022-02-13T00:38:24 < bitmask> I guess I just wanna make sure its working at first
2022-02-13T00:38:32 < bitmask> right
2022-02-13T00:38:58 < bitmask> I guess i should know anyway if its working or not :)
2022-02-13T00:39:36 < bitmask> I'll keep a permanent variable that stores how many times it does it so I can check when I want, that makes more sense
2022-02-13T00:40:09 < BrainDamage> or a list of timestamps
2022-02-13T00:41:02 < bitmask> I dont have the filesystem enabled so I can't store it on the device and doing it another way will require more effort than its worth
2022-02-13T00:41:13 < bitmask> but that would be nicer
2022-02-13T00:41:25 < bitmask> i'll just keep a count and the timestamp of the last time it happened
2022-02-13T00:41:46 < BrainDamage> can you do a http request to a server you control?
2022-02-13T00:41:52 < BrainDamage> the server will log the request
2022-02-13T00:41:57 < bitmask> oh actually I have 16 permanent variables I can use, thats prob more than enough
2022-02-13T00:42:33 < bitmask> I mean I have an AWS account but i dont feel like setting something like that up
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2022-02-13T00:42:40 < bitmask> maybe later
2022-02-13T00:43:49 < bitmask> If I decide to get all into home automation stuff maybe i'll go crazy but this one thing doesn't seem wroth it
2022-02-13T00:44:21 < bitmask> im just making excuses cause im lazy right now, wrong time to ask
2022-02-13T00:45:51 < bitmask> script is self explanatory enough, think this will be sufficient? https://mystb.in/PublicationsAnatomyIncl
2022-02-13T00:46:17 < bitmask> I guess the variables are weird cause you can't name em
2022-02-13T00:47:01 < bitmask> var1 to var4 are delayMin, delayMax, delayFactor (how much to multiply the current delay by so you arent cycling the relay every 3 minutes), and delayCurrent
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2022-02-13T15:06:29 < Steffanx> Done watching ice hockey kakium69 ?
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2022-02-13T15:45:08 < kakium69> yes'
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2022-02-13T19:46:41 < benishor> trying to measure VDDA on a stm32f103. I read from VREFINT but what next?
2022-02-13T19:47:30 < benishor> I don't know how to throw the adc cal value in the mix
2022-02-13T19:55:52 < jpa-> IIRC the reference manual gives a formula
2022-02-13T19:57:17 < jpa-> http://www.efton.sk/STM32/STM32_VREF.pdf  or maybe this
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2022-02-13T20:05:53 < qyx> what the hell is efton.sk
2022-02-13T20:06:50 < jpa-> http://efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/  it's the slovakian zypsnips
2022-02-13T20:07:06 < qyx> http://efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/ whats that
2022-02-13T20:07:07 < qyx> lol
2022-02-13T20:07:57 < benishor> I don't seem to find in the stm32f1xx rm `vcal`
2022-02-13T20:08:29 < benishor> jpa-: nice collection of info there
2022-02-13T20:08:31 < benishor> thanks
2022-02-13T20:08:51 < qyx> benishor: select VDDA as reference, measure your Vrefint using VDDA
2022-02-13T20:09:03 < qyx> read the calibration value according to the DS
2022-02-13T20:09:26 < qyx> the calib value says how many counts ADC reads when measuring Vrefint at 3V3/3V0/other VDDA
2022-02-13T20:09:34 < qyx> apply some math magic to calculate VDDA
2022-02-13T20:10:53 < karlp> then use _that_ to correct your temperature readings, the use that to re-calcualte the vrefint readings... _then_ use that to calibrate your actual sensor readings themselves...
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2022-02-13T20:12:25 < jpa-> http://efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/g72.html  "No DMA to/from GPIO in 'L0/'G0"   is this true?
2022-02-13T20:13:01 < karlp> sounds weird, but I've not tried to say either way
2022-02-13T20:13:15 < jpa-> reference manual seems to agree that they are on separate interface to cpu
2022-02-13T20:13:52 < qyx> weird
2022-02-13T20:13:59 < qyx> I only tried F4 and L4 iirc
2022-02-13T20:14:09 < jpa-> i bet they're just gaming the  for(;;) { gpio_on(); gpio_off(); }   benchmark that some people use :D
2022-02-13T20:14:17 < benishor> qyx: VDDA *is* the reference unfortunately on stm32f1xx with < 100 pins
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2022-02-13T20:15:28 < benishor> I read from vrefint and the channel I want to sample. I use vrefint value to obtain vdda and then I use that to get the absolute value of the channel I'm interested in
2022-02-13T20:15:44 < benishor> prior to that, on power up, I issue an adc calibration through HAL
2022-02-13T20:16:31 < benishor> problem is on subsequent resets I get different offsets of 0-50mV compared to the "real" absolute value
2022-02-13T20:16:57 < benishor> not sure where the adc calibration value comes into play
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2022-02-13T20:17:28 < benishor> so HAL_ADCEx_Calibration_Start(&hadc1); after which the reference manual says:
2022-02-13T20:17:34 < benishor> "The calibration codes are stored in the ADC_DR as soon as the calibration phase ends."
2022-02-13T20:17:49 < benishor> so I take that but what's the meaning of that value?
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2022-02-13T21:08:33 < qyx> benishor: somethng along the lines of https://paste.jvnv.net/view/L9t8w
2022-02-13T21:09:55 < qyx> the result after the calibration is probably some offset with inputs shorted
2022-02-13T21:11:05 < benishor> qyx: will that work for stm32f1xx as well?
2022-02-13T21:11:10 < benishor> I mean the 0x1fff7a2a
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2022-02-13T21:12:17 < qyx> no
2022-02-13T21:12:24 < qyx> every single family has different position
2022-02-13T21:12:35 < qyx> this is an old #yolo code
2022-02-13T21:13:02 < qyx> you can find the exact address in the datasheet
2022-02-13T21:13:07 < qyx> (not RM)
2022-02-13T21:13:51 < benishor> did not find it so far
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2022-02-13T22:13:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.annunaki.org/who-are-the-reptilians/
2022-02-13T22:15:56 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2022-02-13T22:23:55 < Laurenceb> What would this super advanced race want with a lot of lowly humans? Well, what would we want with an inferior race that was easy to manipulate? Just as human beings love power, so do reptilians. The reptilian race are here in order to mine for monatomic gold (with the aid of human slaves), which apparently can boost the power of their nervous systems. This is how they are able to shapeshift, 
2022-02-13T22:23:56 < Laurenceb> cross dimensions, and so on. They also derive energy from human suffering.
2022-02-13T22:24:17 < Laurenceb> it all makes sense now
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2022-02-13T23:05:55 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFLd5zPGaAAIb0Jp.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-02-14T02:05:44 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1493005778369794051
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2022-02-14T02:18:12 < kakium69> you have all those parts?
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2022-02-14T02:18:15 < kakium69> :o
2022-02-14T02:22:53 < Mangy_Dog> most of them
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2022-02-14T02:39:29 < kakium69> which one you dont have?
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2022-02-14T03:37:19 < kakium69> planning to tune rc oscillator 10%
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2022-02-14T04:09:29 < Laurenceb_> arg wtf
2022-02-14T04:09:35 < Laurenceb_> lunix window manager has died
2022-02-14T04:09:47 < Laurenceb_> and I dont know what window manage I need to run
2022-02-14T04:10:46 < kakium69> died?
2022-02-14T04:11:02 < kakium69> usually it's X that fails
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2022-02-14T04:53:52 < Laurenceb_> top bars of windows dont work
2022-02-14T04:58:50 < Laurenceb_> alt-f2 r maybe
2022-02-14T04:58:56 < Laurenceb_> heres where i lose my work
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2022-02-14T05:03:15 < kakium69> ctrl-s
2022-02-14T05:04:41 < Laurenceb_> shit this is going to shit
2022-02-14T05:04:51 < Laurenceb_> cant control any of my indows
2022-02-14T05:07:17 < Laurenceb_> sheeet
2022-02-14T05:07:42 < Laurenceb_> alt-f2 is an epic failure
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2022-02-14T05:57:42 < Laurenceb_> its not the window manager
2022-02-14T05:57:51 < Laurenceb_> firefox is stealing the mouse
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2022-02-14T09:59:04 < jadew> stupid compiler...
2022-02-14T09:59:12 < jadew> it's been bugging me with this shit for years
2022-02-14T09:59:30 < jadew> some crap in the windows SDK #includes "rpc.h"
2022-02-14T09:59:44 < jadew> and the stupid shit includes the rpc.h from my project...
2022-02-14T10:01:05 < jadew> the result is that I'm compiling an unrelated file and for baffling reasons (at the first sight), it complains about shit in places that are not included
2022-02-14T10:02:23 < jpa-> yeah, file name collisions are annoying.. i tend to prefix my header names with something project specific, even though it feels stupid also
2022-02-14T10:03:56 < jadew> I don't think it should be an issue TBH
2022-02-14T10:04:18 < jadew> the "" means local - no?
2022-02-14T10:04:43 < jpa-> local to what?
2022-02-14T10:04:50 < jadew> local to the SDK, is definitely not my project
2022-02-14T10:05:18 < jpa-> "" only looks in the same directory of the file that is including it
2022-02-14T10:05:47 < jpa-> when you have a library that has public header that includes "rpc.h" or "debug.h" or other such crap, it is game over
2022-02-14T10:05:59 < jpa-> no amount of messing with compiler include paths makes it work well
2022-02-14T10:06:19 < jpa-> it's fine to have such files in private includes inside .c of the SDK, but having them in the public .h is not ok
2022-02-14T10:07:17 < jadew> sorry, had to go afk
2022-02-14T10:07:29 < jadew> what do you mean in public .h?
2022-02-14T10:07:50 < jadew> if I have #include "whatever.h" in a public include, I expect the "" to still be respected
2022-02-14T10:08:06 < jadew> it means local to whichever file I'm doing this from
2022-02-14T10:08:25 < jadew> it definitely doesn't mean local to the project, local to the originating include file or anything of the sorts
2022-02-14T10:08:47 < jadew> so the windows SDK include "" is fine, what's not fine is the way it is being handled
2022-02-14T10:09:20 < jadew> the way it is being handled is that it's looking in my project folder
2022-02-14T10:09:57 < jadew> so #include <Windows.h> => c:/program files/sdk/include/Windows.h
2022-02-14T10:10:07 < jadew> and in there there's #include "rpc.h"
2022-02-14T10:10:42 < jadew> and that somehow makes the compiler "you know what? I should look in the calling file's folder first."
2022-02-14T10:10:44 < jadew> that's BS
2022-02-14T10:12:17 < jpa-> but where is the rpc.h really?
2022-02-14T10:12:33 < jadew> there's a local one, in my project's folder
2022-02-14T10:12:44 < jadew> and the windows SDK has one of its own
2022-02-14T10:12:49 < jpa-> is it in same directory with Windows.h?
2022-02-14T10:12:55 < jadew> there's one there too
2022-02-14T10:13:11 < jadew> the one the Windows SDK is looking for
2022-02-14T10:13:12 < jpa-> because that scheme breaks down as soon *either* your program or the SDK headers are divided to multiple directories
2022-02-14T10:15:21 < jadew> I'll probably have to change my file's name, cuz this crap is being bugging me for literally years
2022-02-14T10:15:47 < jadew> (this is a library itself)
2022-02-14T10:17:05 < jadew> grr... it's forcing me do things I don't want
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2022-02-14T10:18:35 < jpa-> another way that works is not to have your library headers directly in include path, but instead use   #include "jadews_secret_lib/rpc.h"  everywhere
2022-02-14T10:18:55 < jadew> that's how they are
2022-02-14T10:19:38 < jadew> it uses the folder of the file being compiled I think
2022-02-14T10:20:04 < jadew> the include clash only happens when I'm compiling something in that folder
2022-02-14T10:21:20 < jpa-> so something is forcing the current directory to your include path?
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2022-02-14T10:22:30 < jadew> I would assume that it's already added to the include path, but for the files in that folder only
2022-02-14T10:23:05 < jadew> I guess that's the problem
2022-02-14T10:23:16 < jadew> not sure how it could be solved
2022-02-14T10:24:29 < jadew> probably by restricting the available include paths to everything that follows an <> include
2022-02-14T10:25:13 < jadew> so the project folder's is never made available to something that branches off from a library inclusion
2022-02-14T10:25:57 < jadew> oh well, won't get fixed today, so I'll just change the file name
2022-02-14T10:26:42 < jadew> added an underscore, that should do it
2022-02-14T10:27:12 < jadew> it compiles now
2022-02-14T10:27:39 < jadew> but I feel dirty
2022-02-14T10:31:30 < jpa-> i have seen some build systems add the source code directory to include path, but that is usually configurable
2022-02-14T10:51:57 < rkta> dq
2022-02-14T10:56:41 < Steffanx> Iddqd ?
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2022-02-14T14:25:09 < mawk> in a sim card ICCID number, the last digit is a checksum number
2022-02-14T14:25:11 < mawk> how is it computed
2022-02-14T14:28:59 < Steffanx> Google knows.
2022-02-14T14:47:48 < mawk> :(
2022-02-14T14:47:51 < mawk> I don't like him
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2022-02-14T14:55:07 < Steffanx> It doesnt look that hard 😋
2022-02-14T14:55:32 < Steffanx> Easy math for you mawk 
2022-02-14T15:17:53 < ventYl> s/ma/me/
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2022-02-14T16:33:27 < qyx> ventYl: lol
2022-02-14T16:45:56 < ventYl> shit, I should stop jumping from one unfinished project to another project I don't manage to finish, because I'll have to jump to yet-another-project
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2022-02-14T16:55:05 < karlp> qyx: what steps did you want me to take to try low power on this h3?
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2022-02-14T16:56:40 < qyx> karlp: boot into ramdisk, no interfaces active (usb, ethernet, hdmi, etc.), ideally uart only, wait for shell prompt, measure
2022-02-14T16:57:09 < qyx> then echo "mem" > /sys/power/state
2022-02-14T16:57:10 < qyx> measure
2022-02-14T16:57:17 < qyx> if you have some spare time
2022-02-14T16:57:28 < karlp> hrm, that might be trickier than I want.  I've got a usb connected wifi module that's hardpowered, specced at around 300mW idle.
2022-02-14T16:57:36 < karlp> let me try one thing
2022-02-14T16:57:45 < karlp> 1.308W now...
2022-02-14T16:57:46 < qyx> the suspend to mem should enter one of the stop modes with DDR self-refreshing
2022-02-14T16:58:11 < qyx> idk which one specifically, it is configurable on sama5d27 and stm32mp1
2022-02-14T16:58:31 < karlp> that took it down to 0.708W.
2022-02-14T16:58:50 < qyx> is it possible to put the modem to suspend?
2022-02-14T16:59:02 < karlp> probably... but I didn't look much into it.
2022-02-14T16:59:14 < qyx> hm, k, thanks
2022-02-14T16:59:16 < karlp> allegedly it responds to standard usb requests...
2022-02-14T16:59:21 < qyx> but huh, still too much
2022-02-14T16:59:34 < karlp> yeah, but there's still emmc and sdcard and shit here.
2022-02-14T16:59:46 < karlp> I'm not sure this is a great example system.
2022-02-14T16:59:53 < qyx> emmc and sd is sub-mA
2022-02-14T16:59:55 < qyx> when idle
2022-02-14T17:00:27 < karlp> there's no hdmi in devicetree even so it _should_ be off...
2022-02-14T17:00:38 < qyx> I would say the usb controller alone is about 200-300 mW
2022-02-14T17:01:13 < karlp> yeah, if you hvae commands to turn that off overall, let me know, I can run shit, but I don't have a lot of time to go exploring how to do things for you 
2022-02-14T17:01:15 < qyx> I'll probably order that neo cube h3 awesome thing
2022-02-14T17:01:35 < qyx> neo core lts
2022-02-14T17:01:42 < qyx> and experiment a bit
2022-02-14T17:01:46 < karlp> aight.
2022-02-14T17:02:06 < qyx> or the CAN enabled one, A20 or A31 iirc
2022-02-14T17:02:08  * karlp returns to freecad...
2022-02-14T17:02:13 < qyx> good luck
2022-02-14T17:02:17 < karlp> lol.
2022-02-14T17:02:18 < qyx> thaks
2022-02-14T17:02:25 < ventYl> motherfucking DP alternate patches are not working again
2022-02-14T17:02:31 < karlp> I've learnt a lot of 3d, but it just makesyou want/need more...
2022-02-14T17:02:53 < karlp> now it's "how to make snap locks" and "how to make snap guides for pcbs" and "how to do assemblies"
2022-02-14T17:03:10  * ventYl is almost convinced UEFI on ARM is a good thing. Then he sees 25 critical vulnerabilities in UEFI Tier1 codebase
2022-02-14T17:13:11 < Xogium> careful though that on stm32mp1 suspend on linux by default is, far as I know, standby mode. That means all power to the a7 core(s) stopped, all power to the m4 stopped, however retram and backup sram and rtc are still all receiving power
2022-02-14T17:13:44 < Xogium> I know that because I've been trying to provide a source for the 3v vbat pin to keep the rtc going
2022-02-14T17:15:01 < Xogium> that's for the SoC itself mind you. I don't know if things like sdram would consume much power
2022-02-14T17:16:12 < Xogium> there's an even lower power mode for it, but I don't think it's doable in linux
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2022-02-14T19:20:38 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask 
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2022-02-14T19:41:51 < octorian> I keep going back and forth on my project on whether to use "float" or libfixmath's fix16_t for calculations and/or saved configuration values in my project.
2022-02-14T19:42:07 < octorian> I'm on an L0, so no hardware FPU, but performance isn't really a concern with any of this code.
2022-02-14T19:42:27 < octorian> The flash size needed for the soft FPU code was a concern, but I have enough flash now that it probably isn't.
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2022-02-14T19:42:37 < tomeaton17> hi
2022-02-14T19:58:40 < jpa-> octorian: as the "maintainer" of libfixmath, i would say don't use libfixmath for anything
2022-02-14T19:59:01 < qyx> lol
2022-02-14T19:59:46 < jpa-> there are still reasons to use fixed point math, but i don't think libfixmath is a particularly useful implementation of that
2022-02-14T20:07:18 < octorian> So are there other implementations I should keep in my toolkit?
2022-02-14T20:07:46 < octorian> Though I am glad that right now I'm no longer worried about not having enough "flash budget" for soft FPU.
2022-02-14T20:10:20 < octorian> (Still have concerns related to code size and, more importantly, unexpected stack usage when I want to format strings containing floats, but that's a separate issue I've dealt with for now)
2022-02-14T20:10:55 < jpa-> are you using C or C++?
2022-02-14T20:11:04 < octorian> C
2022-02-14T20:11:28 < jpa-> yeah, i don't know of any better alternatives; i usually just write fixed point math manually with int32_t
2022-02-14T20:11:32 < octorian> (keep feeling like I should try embedded C++, but the motivation always comes up too late in a project to actually do it, and I forget when the next project comes along)
2022-02-14T20:14:25 < jpa-> for C++ this is pretty nice: https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/fixed_point
2022-02-14T20:15:06 < jpa-> though in some cases using a 10 base fixed point representation is nice also, especially for CPUs with divider
2022-02-14T20:15:27 < specing> Just use Ada, it has fixed-point built-in
2022-02-14T20:15:34 < octorian> But yeah, since thankfully I don't have performance concerns, the biggest float-related issues I have are string formatting and serialization.
2022-02-14T20:16:20 < octorian> For serialization, I just use the binary representation as-is, with care to make sure endian'ness is consistent.
2022-02-14T20:16:47 < octorian> Though round-tripping unchanged values without bit-level changes is always a concern.
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2022-02-14T21:26:00 < Steffanx> jpa- at least that c++ guy has the guts to deprecate the lib :P 
2022-02-14T21:26:05 < Steffanx> Notice: This library is deprecated. Please consider switching to CNL, the successor to fixed_point for many new features and improvements.
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2022-02-14T21:51:58 < bitmask> wanna hear the sexiest start to valentines day?
2022-02-14T21:52:05 < bitmask> i just spent 3 hours unclogging a toilet
2022-02-14T21:53:20 < mawk> lol
2022-02-14T21:53:24 < mawk> did you clog it bitmask ?
2022-02-14T21:53:32 < bitmask> i may have :P
2022-02-14T21:53:52 < boB_K7IQ> Buffer overflow !  :)
2022-02-14T21:53:53 < bitmask> a plunger probably would have helped but a toilet brush is usually enough as a replacement
2022-02-14T21:54:26 < bitmask> i ended up using baking soda + vinegar followed 15 min later by a pot of almost boiling water
2022-02-14T21:54:30 < bitmask> that did the trick
2022-02-14T21:54:49 < bitmask> i doubt the baking soda reaction even helped but whatever
2022-02-14T21:59:57 < mawk> I use flushing with hot water
2022-02-14T22:00:11 < mawk> and if it's really bad I use concentrated drain cleaner
2022-02-14T22:01:08 < Steffanx> awesome, did you record it bitmask? To show your gf how awesome previous valentines day was when she complains.
2022-02-14T22:01:11 < Steffanx> in the future.
2022-02-14T22:01:31 < bitmask> :)
2022-02-14T22:01:48 < bitmask> I have lye but I didnt want to use it
2022-02-14T22:02:19 < bitmask> thought of trying HCl or sulfuric too but i didnt want to use harsh chemicals
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2022-02-14T22:04:51 < mawk> why not using lye
2022-02-14T22:04:54 < mawk> it's perfect for the job
2022-02-14T22:07:12 < bitmask> because its corrosive
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2022-02-14T22:48:38 < kakium69> evening pumps
2022-02-14T22:51:02 < kakium69> trudeau invoked emergency act
2022-02-14T22:53:48 < kakium69> ah.. is about to invoke*
2022-02-14T22:55:35 < qyx> what for
2022-02-14T22:55:42 < qyx> truck drivers?
2022-02-14T23:09:13 < kakium69> people hanging out in ottawa
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2022-02-14T23:12:54 < kakium69> emergency act apparently has never been used
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2022-02-14T23:37:23 < machinehum> Does anyone know where I could find a huge matrix of camera modules?
2022-02-14T23:37:27 < upgrdman> what does the e act do kakium69 
2022-02-14T23:37:40 < machinehum> Looking for a RGB global shutter with decent documentation
2022-02-14T23:38:15 < kakium69> usually emergency law is to override constitution and other laws
--- Day changed Tue Feb 15 2022
2022-02-15T00:01:57 < karlp> heh, I think the cap is a bit too big :)
2022-02-15T00:03:38 < karlp> oh,  https://bin.jvnv.net/file/D3Dzp.png ws important to go with that..
2022-02-15T00:10:02 < kakium69> what is dat+
2022-02-15T00:13:58 < kakium69> more pics
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2022-02-15T00:17:08 < karlp> just a big cap, too big for the case
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2022-02-15T00:23:21 < Steffanx> It's a cap with a USB c connector?
2022-02-15T00:24:37 < karlp> yep
2022-02-15T00:24:46 < karlp> very special
2022-02-15T00:25:08 < Xogium> huh speaking pf usb c… could I modify this thing easily so that I could use it with a 12v psu ? With something to downstep the voltage
2022-02-15T00:25:13 < Xogium> *of
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2022-02-15T00:25:27 < englishman> kakium69: emergency act has never been used because its name changed in 1988. it was previously used by trudeau's father to quell a terrorist sect that assassinated a politician.
2022-02-15T00:25:40 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-15T00:25:47 < englishman> now it will be used to tow 100 trucks
2022-02-15T00:25:49 < Xogium> https://www.adafruit.com/product/4536
2022-02-15T00:26:09 < englishman> and importantly - seize funds without a court order
2022-02-15T00:26:25 < kakium69> englishman: and stop supporters getting there physically
2022-02-15T00:26:41 < englishman> so all those company owned trucks will have their bank accounts zeroed shortly
2022-02-15T00:27:12 < englishman> it didn't work in trudeau's time - the terrorists handed themselves in.
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2022-02-15T01:14:38 < machinehum> Has anyone worked with BT.656/ITU.R/CCIR656 shit?
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2022-02-15T08:29:36 < benishor> are there dedicated tools for working with st's rom bootloader?
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2022-02-15T08:35:50 < benishor> apparently there's stm32flash for linux
2022-02-15T08:36:07 < benishor> but duh, that would need an usb to serial adapter for F1xx :(
2022-02-15T08:39:14 < benishor> I need a real small (either dfu or vcp based) bootloader. any suggestions?
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2022-02-15T08:46:21 < jpa-> Steffanx: lol
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2022-02-15T08:53:21 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEpKcBkkVMY
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2022-02-15T10:14:25 < benishor> I am pulling my hair out
2022-02-15T10:14:50 < benishor> I wrote a very quick and dirty bootloader which simply jumps to 0x8001000 
2022-02-15T10:15:28 < benishor> made a blinky in stm32cubeide, set ORIGIN = 0x8001000 in linker, compiled, flashed, it works
2022-02-15T10:15:43 < benishor> did the same in CLion, does not work
2022-02-15T10:16:04 < benishor> took the very same sources which the stm32cubeide generated, imported in CLion, compiled, flashed, still no workie
2022-02-15T10:16:22 < benishor> attempted to use the very same flags that cubeide uses, compiled, flashed -> no workie
2022-02-15T10:16:27 < benishor> what the flying fuck
2022-02-15T10:17:05 < qyx> are you flashing using the same tool?
2022-02-15T10:17:16 < benishor> yes, tried both st-flash and openocd
2022-02-15T10:17:48 < qyx> I would take the two elves and compare
2022-02-15T10:17:53 < qyx> senctions, listings, etc.
2022-02-15T10:18:52 < benishor> I am not sure what causes the code to not be relocatable
2022-02-15T10:18:59 < jpa-> and just traditional debugging: step through and see why it doesn't work
2022-02-15T10:19:34 < benishor> jpa-: not sure how to step through if it's relocated
2022-02-15T10:20:34 < jpa-> the same way as usual?
2022-02-15T10:20:43 < benishor> now for instance I *somehow* got it to work, but the clock seems funked up
2022-02-15T10:21:19 < jpa-> in confusing cases, it usually helps to step through in assembler; use either   layout asm   or   display /i $pc  and then   stepi
2022-02-15T10:21:41 < benishor> how do I specify the target flash address in openocd.cfg?
2022-02-15T10:22:10 < jpa-> why would you need to, addresses are part of the .elf file
2022-02-15T10:22:40 < jpa-> the programmer and debugger tools don't need to be told it, they'll get it from .elf
2022-02-15T10:23:02 < jpa-> (unless you are using .bin for some weird reason)
2022-02-15T10:23:36 < benishor> I was writing the bin, not the elf file
2022-02-15T10:23:47 < benishor> not sure why
2022-02-15T10:24:26 < benishor> when writing a bootloaded app, do I need to change anything else aside linker flash origin?
2022-02-15T10:24:48 < benishor> should vector table also be relocated?
2022-02-15T10:27:01 < qyx> yes
2022-02-15T10:27:10 < qyx> SCB->VTOR
2022-02-15T10:28:14 < benishor> in the case of mx I guess VECT_TAB_OFFSET in system_stm32fxxx.c would be enough?
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2022-02-15T10:38:36 < Xogium> you guys ever did resistance soldering ?
2022-02-15T10:39:10 < Xogium> I wonder if this couldn't be easier to use for someone blind, sort of… I mean, since you can technically position the iron when it's still cold
2022-02-15T10:40:25 < Xogium> and the tweezers style sounds like it would make it at least relatively easy to grip on a pin to solder it
2022-02-15T10:40:45 < Xogium> plus the foot pedale control, that leaves both of your hands free
2022-02-15T10:41:59 < Xogium> those are bloody expensive though, so if I honestly wanted to try it, that could be a bit complicated
2022-02-15T10:42:39 < BrainDamage> I've never heard those used for electronics, you have the risk that any common mode voltage will result in the device frying components
2022-02-15T10:42:58 < BrainDamage> or if you touch the wrong points of a circuit
2022-02-15T10:43:01 < Xogium> hmm really ?
2022-02-15T10:43:33 < Xogium> the one I saw did list soldering through-hole components on pcb as a possible application
2022-02-15T10:43:50 < Xogium> but heh I believe you more than a possible marketing talk
2022-02-15T10:43:57 < BrainDamage> I guess for through hole it's much more viable
2022-02-15T10:44:10 < BrainDamage> but you'll have  to be super sure to never touch any side trace
2022-02-15T10:44:32 < Xogium> how do you make sure of that ? I suppose visually it must be easy
2022-02-15T10:45:13 < BrainDamage> i guess since you'll limit yourself to through hole, you can leave the terminals long
2022-02-15T10:45:26 < BrainDamage> and grab the terminal at some distance from the pcb
2022-02-15T10:45:49 < BrainDamage> and hope the induced voltage by the device on the traces is small
2022-02-15T10:45:53 < Xogium> I never had any hope to do more than through-hole, tbh. I mean, being able to do these would open a ton of previously locked doors to me
2022-02-15T10:47:03 < Xogium> it would probably be much slower than you guys can solder, but as long as I could do it safely, I wouldn't really mind, that would be a big step forward already
2022-02-15T10:47:47 < Xogium> those irons apparently cool down relatively fast after they are used, so if I have to wait only like, a minute before positioning it for the next pin, that's fine by me
2022-02-15T10:48:33 < BrainDamage> I guess if you also use solder paste you can pre-apply it on the pads without having to feed wire
2022-02-15T10:48:51 < Xogium> hmm yeah
2022-02-15T10:48:53 < BrainDamage> that'll also take one hand off the equation
2022-02-15T10:49:28 < Xogium> though I think that having solder wrapped around the carbon rods would be helpful, as I could then hold a length of it in hand and feel when it starts to melt
2022-02-15T10:49:44 < Xogium> which I couldn't do with the paste
2022-02-15T10:50:35 < Xogium> at the very least these don't seem to require being constantly wet with solder
2022-02-15T10:51:57 < BrainDamage> what you care is the temperature of the pad, not the temperature of the solder
2022-02-15T10:52:18 < BrainDamage> solder doesn't stick to cold surfaces
2022-02-15T10:52:25 < Xogium> either way since those are super expensive I'd need to try it before even buying :D
2022-02-15T10:52:28 < BrainDamage> sorry, soldering iron
2022-02-15T10:52:53 < Xogium> hmm
2022-02-15T10:52:56 < Xogium> right
2022-02-15T10:53:11 < Xogium> but I can't exactly verify that temperature
2022-02-15T10:53:42 < BrainDamage> sighted individuals get direct feedback when feeding the wire, because the wire starts to melt
2022-02-15T10:53:53 < Xogium> I mean, I guess since they pretty much instantly heat up, then I wouldn't need to worry about having it warming up for a few minutes before using, all that
2022-02-15T10:54:13 < BrainDamage> if you can manage to hold the wire against the pad, it'll start digging in once it's hot
2022-02-15T10:54:35 < BrainDamage> it's actually pretty noticeable in terms of hand movements
2022-02-15T10:55:09 < BrainDamage> but that requires that you have the wire against the right pad beforehand
2022-02-15T10:55:15 < Xogium> I'd of course try all of this with blank proto boards and basic pin strips, not on real hardware first
2022-02-15T10:55:40 < BrainDamage> also, wrt heating, it's more of a tip size vs soldering iron power
2022-02-15T10:55:53 < BrainDamage> modern soldering irons are temp controlled instead of constant power
2022-02-15T10:55:59 < BrainDamage> so they throw max power until hot
2022-02-15T10:56:08 < BrainDamage> so they warm up in 10-20s max
2022-02-15T10:56:14 < Xogium> yeah, that could be a bit tricky… I mean, to me, through-hole is absurdly small. I know there's smd that's near down microscopic, but yeah that seems  already very small to me
2022-02-15T10:57:47 < Xogium> true… the cooling down is the most annoying part, I guess. That, and having to keep the tip wet with solder to avoid oxidation
2022-02-15T10:58:16 < BrainDamage> chrome plated tips are a thing since 2 decades
2022-02-15T10:58:31 < BrainDamage> you won't get oxidation, but you'll get poor heat transfer if the tip is dry
2022-02-15T10:58:40 < Xogium> right
2022-02-15T10:58:52 < BrainDamage> because liquid solder will fill the gaps and stick to the surfaces
2022-02-15T10:59:01 < Xogium> I suppose carbon transfers heat better than these
2022-02-15T10:59:14 < BrainDamage> better than metal? absolutely not
2022-02-15T10:59:38 < BrainDamage>  carbon is a thermal insulator but an electrical conductor
2022-02-15T10:59:43 < Xogium> hmm then why do those resistance ones use carbon rods ?
2022-02-15T10:59:58 < BrainDamage> exactly because of this
2022-02-15T11:00:08 < Xogium> oh… right
2022-02-15T11:00:13 < BrainDamage> the idea is having the piece heating up, not the soldering iron
2022-02-15T11:00:30 < Xogium> it generates heat by heating up electrically ?
2022-02-15T11:00:35 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-02-15T11:00:53 < Xogium> makes sense
2022-02-15T11:01:23 < Xogium> and I can see why with anything else than through-hole it could be quite a bit of a problem
2022-02-15T11:01:52 < BrainDamage> if you touch 2 points of the circuit the current will flow there also besides the tips
2022-02-15T11:02:00 < BrainDamage> and your components will go poof
2022-02-15T11:02:16 < BrainDamage> if not even the traces themselves, depending
2022-02-15T11:02:30 < Xogium> yeah, that seems quite tricky
2022-02-15T11:03:01 < BrainDamage> you can buy soldering tweezers that heat up normally with their internal heating element
2022-02-15T11:03:21 < BrainDamage> they are normally for smd, but nothing forbids you using for through hole
2022-02-15T11:03:44 < Xogium> hmm yeah but they will be very slow to cool down, yes ?
2022-02-15T11:04:12 < Xogium> like, you can't really set them up when the tip is still cold ?
2022-02-15T11:04:39 < BrainDamage> you can set when the the tip is cold, but it'll take a while to cool down
2022-02-15T11:04:43 < benishor> note to self: fix st-* tools incorrectly reporting flash size by deleting all chips info files in /usr/local/stlink/chips/
2022-02-15T11:05:19 < BrainDamage> if you can get your hands on a metcal soldering iron, those heat just the tip using rf, but they are megaexpensive
2022-02-15T11:05:32 < BrainDamage> since the volume to heat is small, they heat fast and cool fast
2022-02-15T11:05:41 < BrainDamage> few seconds to heat and few seconds to cool
2022-02-15T11:06:47 < Xogium> hmm
2022-02-15T11:07:07 < Xogium> how much is 'megaexpensive'?
2022-02-15T11:07:58 < BrainDamage> 500-800 bucks
2022-02-15T11:09:03 < Xogium> that's about the same price as low-end resistance iron
2022-02-15T11:12:14 < BrainDamage> to cool  down the tip of a soldering iron btw you could just touch a large metal piece
2022-02-15T11:12:24 < BrainDamage> to act as heatsink
2022-02-15T11:12:39 < BrainDamage> that will work even with a 30 bucks iron
2022-02-15T11:13:21 < Xogium> hmm
2022-02-15T11:13:33 < BrainDamage> buy a copper heatsink, flip it and touch the base with the iron
2022-02-15T11:13:38 < BrainDamage> don't need to be accurate
2022-02-15T11:14:49 < BrainDamage> i have to go
2022-02-15T11:15:25 < Xogium> thanks :) you already gave me plenty to think about, by the way
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2022-02-15T11:19:30 < benishor> jpa-: how does one typically write an .elf with openocd?
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2022-02-15T11:35:57 < karlp> benishor: I use this sort of thing: https://paste.centos.org/view/bde9c725
2022-02-15T11:36:13 < karlp> which is more complicated than you need, but has options you may not have thought about
2022-02-15T11:36:18 < karlp> the simplest, most interactive way is
2022-02-15T11:37:01 < karlp> openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32xxxxxxxxxxx.cfg; (another terminal) gdb blah.elf; tar ext :3333; load;
2022-02-15T11:37:12 < karlp> run;
2022-02-15T11:37:26 < karlp> and then you're already in gdb ready to go...
2022-02-15T11:38:34 < benishor> karlp: thanks. I'm trying to put some order in my head's mess
2022-02-15T11:40:37 < benishor> karlp: and once I'm in gdb, how can I put a breakpoint and reset the beast?
2022-02-15T11:40:45 < karlp> break main;
2022-02-15T11:40:47 < karlp> run
2022-02-15T11:41:08 < karlp> once openocd is running, you sould be able to connect to it frrom clion anyway I would hope.
2022-02-15T11:41:17 < benishor> run fails with exec format error: /home/benny/work/stm32/clion-projects/blinky5/cmake-build-debug/blinky5.elf
2022-02-15T11:41:19 < karlp> otherwise, again, clion is still terribly lakcing for embedded.
2022-02-15T11:41:32 < karlp> did you do "tar ext :3333" ?
2022-02-15T11:41:35 < benishor> yes
2022-02-15T11:41:40 < karlp> did it succeed?
2022-02-15T11:41:49 < karlp> oh,  do you have a proper multi arch gdb?
2022-02-15T11:41:54 < karlp> you might need arm-non-eabi-gdb
2022-02-15T11:42:04 < benishor> ah crap, that's it
2022-02-15T11:42:39 < benishor> `warning: while parsing target description (at line 4): Target description specified unknown architecture "arm"`
2022-02-15T11:42:51 < karlp> ok, back the fuck up.
2022-02-15T11:42:58 < karlp> what century is your openocd from?
2022-02-15T11:43:07 < karlp> and what century is your arm-none-eabi-gdb from?
2022-02-15T11:43:11 < benishor> Open On-Chip Debugger 0.11.0-rc2
2022-02-15T11:43:19 < benishor> I don't have arm-none-eabi-gdb
2022-02-15T11:43:32 < benishor> it appears it doesn't come with the rest of the arm-none-eabi-* tools
2022-02-15T11:43:48 < karlp> it should have.... but ok, you're going to need it, because your gdb isn't multiarch
2022-02-15T11:44:05 < benishor> not with gdb-multiarch either
2022-02-15T11:44:28 < karlp> if you just installed something called gdb-multiarch, then you can just use gdb  I would presume...
2022-02-15T11:44:33 < karlp> what system are you on?
2022-02-15T11:45:15 < benishor> ubuntu 21.10
2022-02-15T11:45:27 < karlp> where did your arm tools come from?
2022-02-15T11:45:40 < karlp> apt or downloads.arm?
2022-02-15T11:46:08 < benishor> main repo
2022-02-15T11:46:08 < karlp> if it came from apt, you might have a different package for gdb.
2022-02-15T11:46:13 < benishor> apt
2022-02-15T11:46:38 < karlp> I would have thought that by 2021 ubuntu could pacakge cross toosl, but in the past the apt packaged cross tools were horribly broken.
2022-02-15T11:46:40 < karlp> ymmv
2022-02-15T11:46:56 < benishor> is there a way to get the latest and bestest?
2022-02-15T11:47:13 < karlp> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm
2022-02-15T11:47:18 < qyx> it is 2022 already
2022-02-15T11:47:26 < karlp> that will include gdb.
2022-02-15T11:47:51 < karlp> you choose how to spend your time, but having badly confused local tooling is going to keep coming to bite you
2022-02-15T11:48:10 < benishor> karlp: what's the other option?
2022-02-15T11:48:25 < benishor> I can't seem to find arm gdb in the repositories
2022-02-15T11:49:02 < benishor> `apt-file find arm-none-eabi-gdb` returns nothing
2022-02-15T11:49:39 < qyx> he sent you a link
2022-02-15T11:52:14 < benishor> (currently downloading)
2022-02-15T11:52:21 < benishor> and isntalling
2022-02-15T11:52:35 < benishor> s/isn/ins
2022-02-15T11:55:27 < jpa-> karlp, benishor: nowadays you can just do this:   openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32xxx.cfg -c 'program firmware.elf verify reset exit'
2022-02-15T11:58:58 < benishor> when installing gcc-arm-*, do I only need to invoke the binaries from bin/ ? or do I need to do something with the ./lib and ./share too?
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2022-02-15T12:01:17 < qyx> no, export PATH or any alternative magic and you are done
2022-02-15T12:02:15 < benishor> done, I'm currently in the debugger, set a breakpoint for main
2022-02-15T12:02:30 < benishor> Breakpoint 1 at 0x80016be: file /home/benny/work/stm32/clion-projects/blinky5/Core/Src/main.c
2022-02-15T12:02:35 < benishor> offset is correctly recognised
2022-02-15T12:02:47 < benishor> but it never gets there
2022-02-15T12:07:57 < jpa-> so press ctrl-c and see where it is?
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2022-02-15T12:23:11 < benishor> finally, arm-none-eabi-gdb blinky-bootloaded.elf; tar ext:3333; load
2022-02-15T12:23:12 < benishor> I got it
2022-02-15T12:23:21 < benishor> I set a breakpoint in main
2022-02-15T12:23:57 < benishor> but it doesn't seem to know how to run it: Don't know how to run.  Try "help target".
2022-02-15T12:27:17 < karlp> tar ext <space> :3333
2022-02-15T12:27:24 < karlp> that means "extended remote"
2022-02-15T12:27:34 < karlp> and if you don't k now how to run, it still hasnt' connected to anything.
2022-02-15T12:27:41 < karlp> you must be getting other errors...
2022-02-15T12:27:52 < karlp> also, please try this toolchain _without_ bootlaoder chains first ...
2022-02-15T12:27:53 < benishor> indeed
2022-02-15T12:29:23 < benishor> it worked when first running gdb and only then specifying tar ext :3333 from within
2022-02-15T12:29:55 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used autossh?
2022-02-15T12:30:02 < benishor> I did
2022-02-15T12:30:08 < benishor> it kept reconnecting nicely
2022-02-15T12:30:13 < Laurenceb> I want to use a pre shared public/private key pair but dont know how to load them
2022-02-15T12:30:34 < Laurenceb> I have two key files, not sure how to use them with autossh...
2022-02-15T12:31:04 < benishor> try to add -i path-to-key
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2022-02-15T12:32:44 < Laurenceb> yeah I have that
2022-02-15T12:33:02 < benishor> you need to put the private key there
2022-02-15T12:33:20 < benishor> stuff like ~/.ssh/id_rsa
2022-02-15T12:33:22 < benishor> or what have you
2022-02-15T12:34:03 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-15T12:34:26 < benishor> if it's the default key then you shouldn't have to specify it, it should be picked up by default
2022-02-15T12:34:39 < Laurenceb> debug1: Trying private key: /home/pi/Tst_private.key
2022-02-15T12:34:39 < Laurenceb> Load key "/home/pi/Tst_private.key": invalid format
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2022-02-15T12:34:50 < benishor> what format is that key?
2022-02-15T12:35:05 < benishor> does it have a header?
2022-02-15T12:35:13 < benishor> how did you get that key? putty generated?
2022-02-15T12:39:45 < benishor> karlp: I have this happening: bootloader and a blinky loaded (both compiled and uploaded through cubeide), works ok. I start openocd, gdb the elf, tar ext :3333, load
2022-02-15T12:40:05 < benishor> I can set breakpoints, set layout, continue/next
2022-02-15T12:40:18 < Laurenceb> generated with gpg
2022-02-15T12:40:21 < benishor> but whenever I run the program from the beginning, it fails to set the clock, it ends up in the error handler
2022-02-15T12:40:33 < Laurenceb> -----BEGIN PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-----
2022-02-15T12:40:39 < benishor> Laurenceb: well, you should be using a ssh key
2022-02-15T12:41:07 < benishor> pgp keys are for signing stuff
2022-02-15T12:41:15 < benishor> ssh keys are for authorization
2022-02-15T12:43:05 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2022-02-15T12:43:37 < Laurenceb> thanks
2022-02-15T12:43:51 < Xogium> you can sort of sign with ssh keys too by the way
2022-02-15T12:44:03 < qyx> I was about to say
2022-02-15T12:44:38 < benishor> sort of
2022-02-15T12:44:43 < benishor> karlp: https://pastebin.com/zCBcVJur
2022-02-15T12:44:49 < benishor> here it fails
2022-02-15T12:45:00 < qyx> but I would expect Laurenceb to know pgp != ssh
2022-02-15T12:45:13 < Laurenceb> heh *fail*
2022-02-15T12:45:31 < Laurenceb> I know the two arent the same, just thought the key would work
2022-02-15T13:01:54 < karlp> benishor: that's your code to debug... :)
2022-02-15T13:02:49 < karlp> if you are using "run" on a second stage file are you expecintg your bootloader to have already set things up?
2022-02-15T13:02:53 < karlp> that's risky in general.
2022-02-15T13:05:12 < benishor> karlp: no, I make a complete setup in the bootloaded app
2022-02-15T13:05:24 < benishor> but setting the clock seems to fail when under the debugger
2022-02-15T13:05:36 < benishor> I made some progress on the bin vs elf issue
2022-02-15T13:06:25 < benishor> it appears that whenever I write the elfs, they write over 0x08000000 instead of 0x08001400
2022-02-15T13:08:23 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/pscfhtwt
2022-02-15T13:10:13 < benishor> even though the entry point is specified as being in the expected range, writing those elfs with openocd -f ... -c "program blinky.elf verify reset exit", overwrites the bootloader
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2022-02-15T13:34:29 < karlp> then you have a busted elf
2022-02-15T13:35:23 < karlp> see how your load addr is still 8000000?
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2022-02-15T13:36:58 < mawk> stop elf and gnome violence
2022-02-15T13:37:19 < benishor> karlp: yes, but I don't know why. even cubeide generates it that way
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2022-02-15T13:46:06 < benishor> so there are two issues: 1) ELF's load address not being properly generated
2022-02-15T13:46:31 < benishor> 2) CLion and CubeIDE generated code behaving different
2022-02-15T13:46:53 < benishor> the test project is a blinky with a HAL_Delay(1000) between toggling
2022-02-15T13:47:23 < benishor> the cubeide compiled one behaves as it should whereas the CLion compiled one's delay seems 10 times shorter
2022-02-15T13:47:44 < benishor> (same source code)
2022-02-15T14:03:22 < benishor> fucking finally, got it
2022-02-15T14:04:06 < benishor> I butchered the CLion generated CMakeLists.txt to do more or less what cubeide did
2022-02-15T14:05:30 < BrainDamage> both gpg keys and ssh keys can both sign and encrypt
2022-02-15T14:05:42 < BrainDamage> because it's the same algo, working on the same things
2022-02-15T14:05:54 < BrainDamage> and in fact you can even convert one into the other
2022-02-15T14:06:53 < qyx> but not all
2022-02-15T14:07:08 < qyx> ssh-keygen sometimes defaults to ed25519 nowadays
2022-02-15T14:07:53 < qyx> not very good algo to encrypt with
2022-02-15T14:08:37 < BrainDamage> gpg doesn't use rsa for encryption either
2022-02-15T14:08:58 < BrainDamage> it generates a symmetric key, encrypts the content with it, then encrypts the symmetric key with rsa
2022-02-15T14:09:27 < BrainDamage> normally the content is encrypted using aes
2022-02-15T14:09:44 < BrainDamage> and it ships the content and the encrypted symmetric key along
2022-02-15T14:09:50 < qyx> yes indeed, but dsa, including eddsa, doesn't allow encryption
2022-02-15T14:10:09 < qyx> it is signing algo only
2022-02-15T14:10:36 < qyx> so you cannot encrypt the symmetric key
2022-02-15T14:10:37 < BrainDamage> true, I forgot that dsa is digital signature algo ._.
2022-02-15T14:18:22 < Laurenceb> I broke my raspberry pi
2022-02-15T14:18:46 < Laurenceb> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
2022-02-15T14:18:47 < Laurenceb>  libc6-dev : Depends: libc6 (= 2.28-10+rpt2+rpi1) but 2.33-1 is to be installed
2022-02-15T14:18:47 < Laurenceb>              Depends: libc-dev-bin (= 2.28-10+rpt2+rpi1) but it is not going to be installed
2022-02-15T14:26:09 < ventYl> well, debian
2022-02-15T14:26:28 < ventYl> you just paid your fine for trying to compile something
2022-02-15T14:26:31 < ventYl> you are going to hell
2022-02-15T14:27:48 < qyx> he probably tried something
2022-02-15T14:27:54 < qyx> it always ends like that
2022-02-15T14:28:47 < Laurenceb> argg
2022-02-15T14:28:48 < Laurenceb> WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
2022-02-15T14:28:48 < Laurenceb> This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
2022-02-15T14:28:56 < Laurenceb> ^if I try to force the version
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2022-02-15T14:33:01 < BrainDamage> 90% of his problems are self-inflicted for attempting to abuse a tool not intended for one pourpose
2022-02-15T14:33:18 < BrainDamage> like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail, it works, but ...
2022-02-15T14:36:16 < Laurenceb> hmm it fails anyway
2022-02-15T14:36:21 < Laurenceb> might have to reimage it
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2022-02-15T14:40:42 < Laurenceb> nope its dead
2022-02-15T14:40:46 < Laurenceb> rip rpi
2022-02-15T14:45:47 < Laurenceb> hopefully I can solder on a usb cable to recover the eMMC, as it has important keys onboard
2022-02-15T14:48:48 < BrainDamage> why
2022-02-15T14:48:53 < BrainDamage> that's insane
2022-02-15T14:49:12 < BrainDamage> just insert a sdcard with a working os and mount the emmc
2022-02-15T14:54:28 < Laurenceb> its a CM4 using eMMC
2022-02-15T14:54:46 < Laurenceb> there is a header for USB that allows you to access the eMMC as mass storage
2022-02-15T14:58:11 < BrainDamage> ok, next time buy a motherboard like https://media.ibertronica.es/products/RA-PLMA05_00001.jpg
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2022-02-15T15:29:33 < benishor> any of you guys managed to generate an elf with "proper" load address?
2022-02-15T15:32:27 < kakium69> what is the benefit
2022-02-15T15:32:50 < kakium69> of buying that instead of just RPI?
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2022-02-15T15:33:16 < BrainDamage> you can integrate it in a system better
2022-02-15T15:33:52 < BrainDamage> instead of having usb cables, etc, you have a proper bus connector with high mechanical resilience and high density
2022-02-15T15:34:10 < BrainDamage> the motherboard would be just for development, before you design the pcb
2022-02-15T15:34:12 < Xogium> someone knows a good usb components tester  and usb tester that would not have a, excuse my french, freaking annoying lcd only display ?
2022-02-15T15:34:27 < Xogium> I mean, what the hell, why they don't just output over serial ?
2022-02-15T15:35:16 < BrainDamage> if you mean the usb itself, because then the usb tester would need to contain a hub, or have a separate port for reading
2022-02-15T15:35:54 < Xogium> like this stuff
2022-02-15T15:35:55 < Xogium> https://www.adafruit.com/product/4232
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2022-02-15T15:37:32 < Xogium> it looks very nice… but it just has a display
2022-02-15T15:38:12 < Xogium> I've seen bunch of these, sometimes with just lcd, sometimes over bluetooth, but then that requires some proprietary app for android or windows, and I have no idea how accessible that app would even be
2022-02-15T15:39:52 < srk> FNB48 has bluetooth 
2022-02-15T15:40:50 < karlp> benishor: you should just need to set your rom start address in your linker script...
2022-02-15T15:40:51 < srk> not sure if it needs proprietary app, such protocol should be easy to reverse if you want to log on PC
2022-02-15T15:41:27 < karlp> unless you're trying to be tricky with a high bootloader, your nomally need to relink apps for with/without bootloader locations
2022-02-15T15:41:41 < Xogium> I honestly wouldn't have the slightest clue where to begin in that
2022-02-15T15:43:50 < srk> or maybe the other way around, get one which already has a reversed one :D https://github.com/kolinger/rd-usb https://github.com/sebastianha/um34c
2022-02-15T15:45:51 < Xogium> hmm
2022-02-15T15:46:10 < Xogium> that sounds like the best I could get away with, yeah
2022-02-15T16:03:22 < benishor> karlp: what I mean is that I set the address in the linker script but that does not reflect in the resulting .elf
2022-02-15T16:03:39 < karlp> show  me how you're editing the linker script?
2022-02-15T16:03:41 < benishor> karlp: I pasted a proof above
2022-02-15T16:03:51 < karlp> are you trying to set "entry poitn" by hand?
2022-02-15T16:04:11 < benishor> karlp: https://pastebin.com/9z61B05m
2022-02-15T16:04:15 < benishor> check flash origin
2022-02-15T16:04:21 < benishor> that;s the only thing I changed
2022-02-15T16:04:36 < karlp> are you actualyl _using_ that linker script?
2022-02-15T16:04:49 < benishor> well, yes
2022-02-15T16:05:05 < karlp> and you're using that only for the -app_ right?
2022-02-15T16:05:19 < benishor> yes
2022-02-15T16:05:53 < benishor> it's easy to check: just change the flash origin, recompile and check resulting elf's headers
2022-02-15T16:06:04 < karlp> (at some point y ou need to adjust your _length_ but that's not your problem right now)
2022-02-15T16:06:14 < benishor> (yeah)
2022-02-15T16:06:24 < karlp> so when you check the elf headers, earlier, they were always still 0800000000, are you saying they're actually hcanging now?
2022-02-15T16:07:04 < qyx> very unsuitable question, is your linker script included in dependency tracking?
2022-02-15T16:07:05 < benishor> no
2022-02-15T16:07:19 < benishor> qyx: I cleaned and rebuilt
2022-02-15T16:07:25 < qyx> did the project actually relink when the lcd was changed?
2022-02-15T16:07:30 < qyx> s/lcd/ld
2022-02-15T16:08:08 < benishor> as I said, it's very easy to test. just make a simple project
2022-02-15T16:08:12 < benishor> and change the flash origin
2022-02-15T16:08:20 < qyx> yes, it works
2022-02-15T16:08:21 < benishor> check the resulting elf headers
2022-02-15T16:08:40 < benishor> qyx: what framework did you use?
2022-02-15T16:08:47 < benishor> and what linker version?
2022-02-15T16:09:13 < benishor> (not that the framework has anything to do with it)
2022-02-15T16:09:42 < qyx> I mean, it worked in the past for my projects
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2022-02-15T16:12:56 < karlp> if you're chaning flash start and relinking and still showing 0x8000000 as start, you are either a) not using your linker script or b) not looking at the right headers or c) some other bullshit crazyness.
2022-02-15T16:13:05 < karlp> but that's literally all "we" are doing.
2022-02-15T16:14:22 < benishor> readelf -Wl program.elf
2022-02-15T16:14:36 < karlp> ahh. ok.
2022-02-15T16:14:38 < benishor> isn't that the way to read the headers?
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2022-02-15T16:15:31 < karlp> so I went and looked at one of my own working projets adn those load addresses are still showing 0x080000 in _that_ sectin
2022-02-15T16:15:45 < karlp> but .text has the correct address in the upper section
2022-02-15T16:16:02 < karlp> using readelf -e
2022-02-15T16:16:28 < karlp> so you might have been ok?
2022-02-15T16:16:29 < benishor> yup, same here now
2022-02-15T16:16:31  * karlp shrugs
2022-02-15T16:16:55 < karlp> if you are still just dealing with clocks not working in your app, you're probably not properly counting for some assumption of what your bootloader did/didn't do.
2022-02-15T16:17:00 < benishor> *but* then why does openocd -f ... -c "program program.elf verify reset exit" write it all over?
2022-02-15T16:17:18 < qyx> does it?
2022-02-15T16:17:23 < karlp> I don't know abotu that, using load in gdb it only loads my own section,
2022-02-15T16:17:23 < qyx> whats your target again
2022-02-15T16:17:41 < benishor> I solved the clocks thing (I forgot to uncomment #define USER_VECT_TAB_ADDRESS in system_stm32f1xx.c)
2022-02-15T16:17:43 < karlp> when I've been using openocd for bootloader stuff I've done combining of bootloader+app into a bin and flashed the combined image.
2022-02-15T16:18:00 < qyx> f1? joking?
2022-02-15T16:18:01 < benishor> target = stm32f103c8
2022-02-15T16:18:02 < karlp> so, now you might want to go back and re-test your "rewriting everything" tests?
2022-02-15T16:18:13 < benishor> qyx: no, just milking everything out of it
2022-02-15T16:18:16 < karlp> qyx: at least they're not expecting help with some weird arduino port for f1
2022-02-15T16:19:27 < benishor> qyx: it's good to get the basics right before jumping higher. my F746 projects wait patiently
2022-02-15T16:19:43 < benishor> karlp: how does one combine bootloader and app into a bin?
2022-02-15T16:19:59 < qyx> how big is your bootloader?
2022-02-15T16:20:06 < qyx> does it fit within a single sector?
2022-02-15T16:20:18 < benishor> qyx: it's ~5K 
2022-02-15T16:20:25 < benishor> a sector is 1K on that F103
2022-02-15T16:20:35 < karlp> benishor:https://paste.centos.org/view/90dd93bf
2022-02-15T16:20:41 < qyx> aren't you using chip erase before programming?
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2022-02-15T16:21:09 < benishor> qyx: if I were, I would have to write the bootloader over again, no?
2022-02-15T16:21:21 < benishor> karlp: thanks!
2022-02-15T16:22:06 < benishor> but that still translates into a bin, I can write bins and place them at the needed address, I was just intrigued that elfs do not work out of the box
2022-02-15T16:22:15 < benishor> surely, I must not be the only one to have ran into this
2022-02-15T16:22:25 < benishor> *have run*
2022-02-15T16:23:42 < benishor> so: if I write bootloader.bin at 0x8000000 and app.bin at 0x8001400, it works. If I write bootloader.bin at 0x800000 and then app.elf without specifying address, it does not work
2022-02-15T16:24:00 < benishor> writing app.elf overwrites the bootloader
2022-02-15T16:24:33 < benishor> I made tests: a) erased chip, wrote bootloader, dumped chip to file, wrote app.bin to desired address, dumped chip to file
2022-02-15T16:24:54 < benishor> b) erased chip, wrote bootloader.bin, wrote app.hex, dumped chip to file
2022-02-15T16:25:24 < benishor> I then compared the chip dumps and I saw that the bootloader got overwritten 
2022-02-15T16:25:56 < karlp> well, elfs work for me, I still don't know why you're elfs are apparently replacing each other.
2022-02-15T16:26:23 < karlp> hex? how did you make that?
2022-02-15T16:26:33 < karlp> hex's include weird addresses and padding
2022-02-15T16:26:54 < benishor> app.elf, sorry
2022-02-15T16:28:43 < karlp> if you readelf -e on your app.elf, does it have any sections at 0x08000000?
2022-02-15T16:30:42 < benishor> karlp: https://pastebin.com/nmMxTBmT
2022-02-15T16:32:49 < karlp> and you say that you use openocd program towrite the bootloader, 
2022-02-15T16:33:02 < karlp> then use openocd program to write that blinky-dfu.elf?
2022-02-15T16:33:13 < benishor> openocd -c "program blinky-dfu.elf verify reset exit"
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2022-02-15T16:33:28 < karlp> PaulFertser: that doesn't sound expected to me, ideas?
2022-02-15T16:33:51 < karlp> can you try openocd to write the bootloader
2022-02-15T16:33:58 < karlp> then use gdb load to load the app?
2022-02-15T16:34:09 < karlp> does that trample the bootloader too?
2022-02-15T16:34:19 < karlp> I can't see anything that looks wrong at least.
2022-02-15T16:37:01 < benishor> no, that does not trample the bootloader
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2022-02-15T16:37:50 < benishor> if I write the app first and then the bootloader, the blinky works albeit much faster than configured
2022-02-15T16:38:18 < benishor> I'm confused beyond all recognition
2022-02-15T16:38:27 < benishor> I can share the projects, they are but simple tests
2022-02-15T16:41:00 < benishor> https://github.com/benishor/stm32-bootloader-issue
2022-02-15T16:46:06 < karlp> you _definitely_ hav ebad assumptions about reset state and clocks if things are working faster dependingon the order you flash them
2022-02-15T16:46:52 < jpa-> order of flashing sounds like the main program is overwriting the bootloader
2022-02-15T16:47:07 < benishor> thing is, if I download both the bootloader and the app from the cubeide, it works perfectly
2022-02-15T16:47:16 < benishor> it uses STM32CubeProgrammer
2022-02-15T16:47:26 < benishor> and it correctly identifies the start address
2022-02-15T16:47:40 < karlp> you might also have older apps lying in flash ;)
2022-02-15T16:50:05 < benishor> oh shit, I just notived the bootloader is larger than I thought
2022-02-15T16:52:56 < jpa-> if you use a sensible linker script, you should be getting an error about that
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2022-02-15T18:38:40 < kakium69> hello evening
2022-02-15T18:41:51 < kakium69> I have seen some codes that have source codes written in header
2022-02-15T18:45:23 < kakium69> why would you or would not do that?
2022-02-15T18:47:43 < kakium69> and should I ever do that?
2022-02-15T18:48:14 < Thorn> only with c++ templates or static inline c functions
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2022-02-15T18:59:20 < kakium69> how about c++ class
2022-02-15T18:59:40 < kakium69> is it concidered a source code
2022-02-15T19:00:03 < kakium69> *source
2022-02-15T19:00:38 < BrainDamage> class definition or implementation?
2022-02-15T19:00:43 < kakium69> definition
2022-02-15T19:01:23 < bitmask> hi hi
2022-02-15T19:01:27 < BrainDamage> then it's pretty normal because it describes the interface that the other functions / classes see
2022-02-15T19:01:41 < Thorn> kakium69 if you define methods inside the class { }; they will be considered inline
2022-02-15T19:02:00 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-15T19:02:03 < BrainDamage> and if you add the implementation, it's indeed inline
2022-02-15T19:02:36 < bitmask> oh boy, i havent used fusion360 in like a year, lets hope its like riding a bike
2022-02-15T19:02:48 < kakium69> and if I define methods outside the class {} ?
2022-02-15T19:02:57 < Thorn> the most important thing isn't inline per se but the fact that you won't get duplicate definition errors if you include that header into multiple TUs
2022-02-15T19:03:02 < BrainDamage> then they aren't part of the class
2022-02-15T19:03:12 < Thorn> kakium69 then you put them into a separate .cpp
2022-02-15T19:03:20 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-15T19:03:36 < BrainDamage> unless you mean it's an implementation, then it's just a normal cpp
2022-02-15T19:03:45 < BrainDamage> with class::function()
2022-02-15T19:04:15 < kakium69> let's say I have one source file and I do methods inside class {} vs I do methods outside class {}
2022-02-15T19:04:39 < kakium69> does it have any effect to end result?
2022-02-15T19:04:50 < BrainDamage> it's quite unclear what you mean with doing methods, do you mean declaration or implementation?
2022-02-15T19:05:17 < kakium69> implementation
2022-02-15T19:06:04 < BrainDamage> if you add implementations in the class declaration in the header you're inlining them, it makes the compilation slower since they'll be recompiled in every file they are included to, but yield performance gains in some cases
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2022-02-15T19:08:08 < kakium69> understood
2022-02-15T19:08:11 < BrainDamage> it's common for getters/setters because the overhead of function call gets reduced
2022-02-15T19:08:36 < BrainDamage> because it removes a layer of indirection
2022-02-15T19:08:50 < kakium69> good to know
2022-02-15T19:08:54 < BrainDamage> it makes sense mostly for small things
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2022-02-15T19:09:24 < BrainDamage> once a function does something noteworthy, the function call overhead is negligible and you won't notice a difference
2022-02-15T19:10:07 < kakium69> but I will notice difference in size
2022-02-15T19:11:01 < Thorn> if you're trying to fit a lot of code into a small mcu you need to be *very* careful with inlining and template instantiation
2022-02-15T19:11:27 < kakium69> tru
2022-02-15T19:11:41 < kakium69> 2Kilos of flash
2022-02-15T19:11:51 < machinehum> 0.65mm BGA you need uVias and shit right?
2022-02-15T19:13:07 < kakium69> machinehum: I think it might depend on the grid size
2022-02-15T19:13:17 < kakium69> 2x2 grid - no
2022-02-15T19:14:11 < Thorn> machinehum iirc you can avoid microvias if you can do < 0.1mm traces
2022-02-15T19:14:41 < Thorn> which is also often classified under HDI with the corresponding price increase
2022-02-15T19:15:06 < kakium69> if you use BGA and need a via it must be microvia?
2022-02-15T19:15:32 < kakium69> lets say I need only one via
2022-02-15T19:16:11 < kakium69> I have 3x3 grid and I need that center pin
2022-02-15T19:17:18 < kakium69> oh.. it's the annular ring that is the problem
2022-02-15T19:17:55 < machinehum> What do you mean 2x2 grid?
2022-02-15T19:18:09 < kakium69> 4pad BGA
2022-02-15T19:19:26 < machinehum> Still lost
2022-02-15T19:19:32 < machinehum> Oh
2022-02-15T19:19:39 < machinehum> Like the part only has 4 pads on it?
2022-02-15T19:19:42 < machinehum> Right
2022-02-15T19:19:48 < machinehum> Nah this is like a 450 pad monster
2022-02-15T19:20:04 < kakium69> yeah you need microvias
2022-02-15T19:20:07 < kakium69> and layers
2022-02-15T19:20:23 < machinehum> Probably at least 8
2022-02-15T19:20:35 < machinehum> Depending on how many pins actually need to be fanned out
2022-02-15T19:21:47 < kakium69> what chip?
2022-02-15T19:21:57 < machinehum> Allwinner V5
2022-02-15T19:22:11 < machinehum> It's a BGA552 to be exact
2022-02-15T19:25:03 < kakium69> ambitious
2022-02-15T19:25:24 < machinehum> I want to make a SOM from it
2022-02-15T19:25:34 < machinehum> People can use it for MV/AI shit
2022-02-15T19:26:13 < machinehum> I wanted to use the A33, which is a much smaller BGA250, and I've already made a working board with it
2022-02-15T19:26:31 < machinehum> But it only have one CSI lane, and stereo is a must
2022-02-15T19:26:36 < machinehum> has
2022-02-15T19:27:16 < kakium69> pics
2022-02-15T19:27:48 < machinehum> https://interruptlabs.ca/images/portfolio/wifi_nff.jpg
2022-02-15T19:27:49 < kakium69> ?
2022-02-15T19:28:00 < machinehum> wait pics of what?
2022-02-15T19:28:17 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-15T19:28:25 < kakium69> nice board
2022-02-15T19:28:31 < machinehum> Thanks
2022-02-15T19:28:48 < jpa-> machinehum: where are you walking?
2022-02-15T19:29:08 < machinehum> Home
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2022-02-15T19:29:49 < machinehum> I actually got away with a 4 layer for that guy hand assembled
2022-02-15T19:30:28 < Steffanx> No more meta/fb for machinehum  ?
2022-02-15T19:30:42 < machinehum> Still work there
2022-02-15T19:31:21 < machinehum> I just have a small site to show people if they want to pay me $50-$300 for some engineering task lol
2022-02-15T19:33:02 < kakium69> show us
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2022-02-15T19:35:14 < machinehum> interruptlabs.ca
2022-02-15T19:35:30 < jpa-> no prices and looks expensive, won't buy!
2022-02-15T19:36:16 < machinehum> My services cost $50-$300 all in, regardless of the amout of work
2022-02-15T19:36:44 < machinehum> I mainly based it upwork, freelancer
2022-02-15T19:36:50 < machinehum> You know, fair pay
2022-02-15T19:37:07 < jpa-> $50-$300 per hour?
2022-02-15T19:37:22 < machinehum> jpa-: Per Project!
2022-02-15T19:37:32 < machinehum> lol
2022-02-15T19:37:36 < jpa-> that's too little, has to be a scam :)
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2022-02-15T19:39:27 < jpa-> honestly, based on the website & experience list alone, i would guess you charge $100 or more per hour
2022-02-15T19:39:50 < jpa-> so if you are cheaper than that, it might make sense to make it known to potential clients
2022-02-15T19:40:06 < englishman> yes i would hope so
2022-02-15T19:40:23 < englishman> some of the projects are a little make:ry but the A33 has some weight to it
2022-02-15T19:40:46 < kakium69> make:ry in resourceful way though
2022-02-15T19:40:55 < englishman> also it would be helpful to put the end product and not just your portion of it (the pcb)
2022-02-15T19:41:03 < machinehum> Yeah I'm ~$100/hr
2022-02-15T19:41:27 < machinehum> My issue is all the hard shit I've done was for a previous consulting company
2022-02-15T19:41:49 < machinehum> So I can't publicly advertise that
2022-02-15T19:42:10 < jpa-> can you advertise that you have worked X years at company Y?
2022-02-15T19:42:32 < machinehum> I have a capabilities doc that's 6 different projects that I "share screen" on video call disclosing some of that stuff
2022-02-15T19:42:44 < machinehum> But I can't let that pdf get out
2022-02-15T19:43:00 < machinehum> jpa-: Maybe
2022-02-15T19:43:35 < jpa-> for me clients haven't been particularly interested in what i have done before, just how i would do their thing
2022-02-15T19:43:49 < machinehum> Makes sense
2022-02-15T19:44:13 < machinehum> I guess a lot of that comes from proposal writing and understanding a PRD
2022-02-15T19:44:41 < jpa-> maybe, if you have a very organized client
2022-02-15T19:45:06 < jpa-> a lot of time it comes down to writing understandable and concise emails that make the client feel like you have a solution
2022-02-15T19:54:05 < kakium69> do you use .h or .hpp extension for c++ headers?
2022-02-15T19:54:22 < jpa-> sometimes .h, sometimes .hh
2022-02-15T19:54:38 < ventYl> mostly .h
2022-02-15T19:54:51 < ventYl> I tend not to mix C and C++ in one project unless completely unavoidable
2022-02-15T19:54:55 < ventYl> it makes compilers sad
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2022-02-15T19:56:12 < kakium69> hh ?
2022-02-15T19:56:17 < duude__> o/
2022-02-15T19:56:28 < kakium69> anything goes though?
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2022-02-15T19:58:08 < duude__> I'd like to ask you guys for an advice
2022-02-15T19:58:27 < duude__> Total novice at STM32, I learn the best through projects and books
2022-02-15T19:58:54 < duude__> Decided to do for my first project an usb audio card (going to write drivers for it) as well
2022-02-15T20:00:06 < duude__> (the samples will be generated artifically, just a sinewave or anything). The goal is basically to connect it to my computer, have it register as an audio card and then I can use a recording software to capture it's output 
2022-02-15T20:00:17 < duude__> Basically as if I bought a cheap audio card from china and used that
2022-02-15T20:00:42 < jpa-> you can just implement usb audio class, then you don't have to write drivers
2022-02-15T20:00:47 < duude__> Do you have any tips where to start? :D I'm at the moment just making a concise plan of learning, just so that I don't wander all around
2022-02-15T20:01:14 < kakium69> there is soundcard demo for some stm32 disco boards
2022-02-15T20:01:27 < kakium69> or at least audio playback
2022-02-15T20:01:45 < kakium69> iirc
2022-02-15T20:01:47 < ventYl> yeah, I was just writing the same as jpa- pointed out. use USB audio class - no need to write useless driver for it
2022-02-15T20:01:58 < jpa-> you can either start by using STM32 Cube or start by uninstalling STM32 Cube - that will determine how the rest of your life will go
2022-02-15T20:02:03 < ventYl> then you need to consider analog part so your audio input / output won't be a potato
2022-02-15T20:02:22 < ventYl> and then software part so you get the timing right, again in order to avoid sound being a potato
2022-02-15T20:02:44 < ventYl> well, he can first install cube and later uninstall it
2022-02-15T20:02:52 < machinehum> Start by blinking an LED w/ cube, w/o cube
2022-02-15T20:03:38 < kakium69> https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/x-cube-usb-audio.html I wonder if cube could do the whole software by just clicking some checkboxes
2022-02-15T20:04:23 < kakium69> jpa-: which one is the right way to go?
2022-02-15T20:04:38 < kakium69> I have been here for like 7years and still not know
2022-02-15T20:05:10 < machinehum> jpa-: I've only have one organised client in the history of my life
2022-02-15T20:06:36 < duude__> jpa-: I ser
2022-02-15T20:06:49 < duude__> I see*
2022-02-15T20:07:06 < duude__> kakium69: oh nice :) 
2022-02-15T20:07:16 < duude__> I was actually planning to use the cheapest one heh
2022-02-15T20:07:24 < duude__> The dreaded f103
2022-02-15T20:09:24 < kakium69> those should be available still
2022-02-15T20:09:29 < duude__> So errm, jpa-, you said stm32cube, be vary if I decide to use it
2022-02-15T20:09:37 < duude__> Should I not? 
2022-02-15T20:09:39 < machinehum> Yes, depopulate from blue pills
2022-02-15T20:10:08 < Xogium> aren't bluepills clones and not genuine stm32 ?
2022-02-15T20:10:21 < machinehum> I was joking lol
2022-02-15T20:10:22 < duude__> Indeed they are 
2022-02-15T20:10:29 < machinehum> Nah they're not
2022-02-15T20:10:50 < Xogium> oh really ?
2022-02-15T20:10:50 < duude__> Well, depends who you get them from :p
2022-02-15T20:11:06 < machinehum> f103 that were incorrectly made the rom said 64k, the actually had 256k or something
2022-02-15T20:11:13 < machinehum> Ended up in a Chinese dumpster
2022-02-15T20:11:24 < duude__> Lol
2022-02-15T20:11:45 < duude__> Oh by the way, is stm32cube windows only? 
2022-02-15T20:11:53 < duude__> I was hoping to do development on debian 
2022-02-15T20:11:59 < Steffanx> its not
2022-02-15T20:12:05 < duude__> Awesome :) 
2022-02-15T20:12:06 < Xogium> there is a linux port, not a clue what its worth though
2022-02-15T20:12:15 < duude__> I see
2022-02-15T20:12:15 < machinehum> I've used it, workds fine
2022-02-15T20:12:20 < machinehum> works
2022-02-15T20:12:23 < duude__> I could always run it in wine
2022-02-15T20:12:30 < duude__> Or spin up a quick win10 VM
2022-02-15T20:12:35 < machinehum> I think you might need to install a bunch of java stuff
2022-02-15T20:13:32 < Xogium> a real shame that its not very much usable with a screen reader though. The main interface seems good, but things get complicated as soon as you try and launch a new project
2022-02-15T20:13:52 < Xogium> you get stuck in the new project dialog, on the cancel button. I can't move away from it lol
2022-02-15T20:14:36 < Xogium> though maybe by doing OCR on the screen, hm
2022-02-15T20:18:42 < duude__> ventYI: so, usb audio class it is. No need to write drivers I hope :) 
2022-02-15T20:18:53 < duude__> I'm gonna install it a bit later and report back how it went hah
2022-02-15T20:19:07 < duude__> Shouldn't be hard I hope :) 
2022-02-15T20:23:20 < ventYl> cube itself isn't hard. it is weird and quite fucked up, but the hard part is to learn embedded development
2022-02-15T20:24:26 < duude__> ventYI: weird and fucked up in a bad way? 
2022-02-15T20:29:11 < machinehum> What's the normal move for camera into CSI? I have a bus that looks like this https://imgur.com/a/fn1BQdS it's an old format called CCIR656 which is synonymous for Rec.656, BT.656, ITU.R
2022-02-15T20:29:41 < machinehum> Looking through cameras there a zillion different sensor output types
2022-02-15T20:34:26 < qyx> duude__: after several years of experience I would not dare to call "audio over usb on a f103" being easy or "not that hard"
2022-02-15T20:34:45 < qyx> oh debian, cubemx
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2022-02-15T20:35:32 < qyx> I would put my left hand onto a stove instead
2022-02-15T20:37:06 < machinehum> Do people usually convert the signal, use an IC or something, or just pick a sensor that works with your phy
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2022-02-15T20:44:43 < bitmask> are there any rules for bearings? like are there discrete steps like resistors or do you just gotta browse the sizes and see whats there
2022-02-15T20:46:10 < qyx> machinehum: aandrew is a camera pro
2022-02-15T20:46:58 < duude__> qyx: what would you reccomend for both? 
2022-02-15T20:47:06 < duude__> Stick with debian or switch to windows 
2022-02-15T20:47:27 < machinehum> duude__: Debian is fine
2022-02-15T20:47:29 < machinehum> I did it
2022-02-15T20:47:33 < duude__> And the audio project, shouldn't be impossible yeah? 
2022-02-15T20:48:10 < duude__> I was originally thinking about writing my own driver, but ventYI said USB audio class could be used instead 
2022-02-15T20:48:29 < jpa-> bitmask: https://www.bearingworks.com/bearing-sizes/
2022-02-15T20:48:38 < bitmask> neat thanks
2022-02-15T20:49:34 < bitmask> whats the series number
2022-02-15T20:49:36 < bitmask> ?
2022-02-15T20:50:16 < jpa-> it's kind of the aspect ratio of the bearing usually, e.g. 6200 is wider & stronger than 6000
2022-02-15T20:50:23 < bitmask> ahh ok
2022-02-15T20:51:51 < jpa-> then after the size there can be suffixes like 2RS for dual side seal
2022-02-15T20:52:23 < machinehum> aandrew: Help mucho appriciated
2022-02-15T20:52:34 < machinehum> Never done anything with CSI before
2022-02-15T21:03:48 < zyp> duude__, the basics of USB audio is pretty easy, it's just a couple of descriptors to tell the host you're an audio device and what format to use and so on, and then you just push data over an isochronous pipe
2022-02-15T21:04:10 < zyp> the hard part is if you need to deal with clock sync
2022-02-15T21:05:44 < zyp> if you're just making a sine wave generator and pushing data to the host you don't need to deal with that, in that case you just run the generator at the same rate that usb consumes data
2022-02-15T21:07:11 < kakium69> if I want to use
2022-02-15T21:07:14 < zyp> the hard part is when you're bridging between usb and an external audio chip running from its own clock and you have to deal with discrepancies between the two
2022-02-15T21:07:28 < kakium69> templates to pass board functions
2022-02-15T21:07:34 < kakium69> it works?
2022-02-15T21:08:06 < kakium69> pass board functions to higher level function
2022-02-15T21:09:49 < zyp> duude__, here's usb audio in <300 lines: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/main.cpp
2022-02-15T21:09:49 < bitmask> damn, its nice finding bearings in your collection that will work
2022-02-15T21:10:01 < duude__> zyp: yeh, gonna do exactly that. Just a plain old sine generator just to see I'm actually pushing something haha
2022-02-15T21:10:12 < duude__> Noooo I don't wanna open it :(
2022-02-15T21:10:16 < duude__> It feels like cheating haha
2022-02-15T21:10:48 < zyp> it's audio output, using the i2s chip on the stm32f4 discovery
2022-02-15T21:11:27 < zyp> it doesn't solve the sync issue, it has usb and i2s working on the same ringbuffer at slightly different rates, so you get periodic audio artifacts when the read and write pointers overlap :)
2022-02-15T21:11:50 < srk> lol I remember that
2022-02-15T21:12:06 < zyp> for input you'd do roughly the same, just feeding data in reverse and editing descriptors to tell the host so
2022-02-15T21:12:38 < srk> this thing has the periodic artifact http://tjaekel.com/DiscoveryUSB/index.html :D
2022-02-15T21:13:22 < srk> produced a fun effect every couple hours
2022-02-15T21:13:37 < zyp> mine is like once a minute IIRC
2022-02-15T21:13:52 < zyp> but it depends on the size of the buffer and the rate difference
2022-02-15T21:15:48 < duude__> Thanku :) 
2022-02-15T21:16:56 < catphish> seriously, what moron thought it would be a good idea for the uk to leave the eu, who votes to pay more duty on trade :|
2022-02-15T21:17:28 < zyp> a lot of british morons?
2022-02-15T21:19:30 < BrainDamage> if you don't mind cheating a bit, you can use 48kHz sampling rate on i2s, and 44.1 on usb and continously resample on the usb clock
2022-02-15T21:20:35 < zyp> I think part of my issue was that I couldn't run i2c exactly at 48kHz
2022-02-15T21:20:39 < zyp> i2s*
2022-02-15T21:26:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Uklc3.png
2022-02-15T21:27:12 < zyp> I'm running at 48000 with mclk enabled, using that config, so 0.0186% error
2022-02-15T21:32:07 < duude__> I see. Thanks :) 
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2022-02-15T23:26:59 < kakium69> please remind me in what operations on 8bit mcu I needed to use atomic?
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2022-02-15T23:28:09 < kakium69> only when copying 16bit or larger variables?
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2022-02-15T23:38:52 < specing> kakium69: look into instruction set reference manual
2022-02-15T23:40:21 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2022-02-15T23:42:50 < kakium69> i use 1byte size variables for now
2022-02-15T23:46:13 < kakium69> shieet.. I did something dumb
2022-02-15T23:48:02 < kakium69> or maybe not
2022-02-15T23:48:52 < kakium69> my design choise just presents a technical challenge
--- Day changed Wed Feb 16 2022
2022-02-16T00:06:06 < kakium69> let's drink some coding milk
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2022-02-16T00:20:24 < mawk> oh no the old nordic sdk is deprecated
2022-02-16T00:20:32 < mawk> now they want me to use their zephyr stuff
2022-02-16T00:22:10 < Steffanx> Is it for real?
2022-02-16T00:27:46 < mawk> I suppose
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2022-02-16T00:43:04 < Steffanx> They are pushing zephyr yes, but can't imagine they'll stop with the old sdk
2022-02-16T00:43:24 < Steffanx> Or the old new old compatible layer whatever SDK they have now
2022-02-16T01:19:15 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/fi4duZB
2022-02-16T01:20:28 < bitmask> time to print this and watch it fail miserably
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2022-02-16T01:31:16 < kakium69> static variable in ISR or global volatile?
2022-02-16T01:31:21 < kakium69> or just global?
2022-02-16T01:31:37 < kakium69> used only in ISR
2022-02-16T01:32:06 < kakium69> storing values into array for averaging and this variable is the index
2022-02-16T01:33:02 < aandrew> kakium69: static inside of subroutine
2022-02-16T01:33:21 < aandrew> I try to keep variables as tightly scoped as possible
2022-02-16T01:34:21 < aandrew> although depending on how fancy I felt, I might throw the variables into a queue and when the average count was met, wake up a data processing thread
2022-02-16T01:34:33 < aandrew> straight averages though with base 2 counts, ISR would be fine
2022-02-16T01:34:55 < aandrew> er log 2 not base 2
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2022-02-16T01:37:59 < kakium69> array is global
2022-02-16T01:38:32 < kakium69> there is function that calculates average on-demand
2022-02-16T01:38:40 < kakium69> otherwise it's not calculated
2022-02-16T01:39:06 < kakium69> ISR just cycles through
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2022-02-16T01:41:29 < kakium69> I have done this before with array and index in global
2022-02-16T01:41:49 < kakium69> it had dozens of samples and weighted averaging
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2022-02-16T01:45:07 < kakium69> maybe it was not global even
2022-02-16T01:46:13 < kakium69> averaging read of certain number of samples
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2022-02-16T02:13:30 < bitmask> whats best way to turn a 24V AC power adapter into a bipolar supply 
2022-02-16T02:14:47 < bitmask> if its not center tapped is it not even helpful that its an AC supply?
2022-02-16T02:15:16 < bitmask> oh
2022-02-16T02:15:17 < bitmask> duh
2022-02-16T02:15:37 < bitmask> I must be able to get ground
2022-02-16T02:15:44 < bitmask> or can i?
2022-02-16T02:16:05 < bitmask> wtf am i doing
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2022-02-16T02:47:09 < kakium69> how powerful bipolar supply?
2022-02-16T02:48:30 < qyx> turn ATX power supply into a bipolar one
2022-02-16T02:51:08 < kakium69> if this AVR thing doesn't have startup code
2022-02-16T02:51:20 < kakium69> how are global variables initialized?
2022-02-16T02:54:46 < bitmask> maybe an amp?
2022-02-16T02:54:52 < bitmask> around +- 20V
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2022-02-16T04:30:38 < bitmask> well I ordered a 2x25V 120VA toiroid
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2022-02-16T05:56:25 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/9HZS4EG
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2022-02-16T06:57:12 < Xogium> er… what the ? Can someone explain what the hell is up with these numbers ? They claim this board can be powered over usb, then say the input voltage recommended is 7 to 12 volts, then say the limit is 6 to 20 ?
2022-02-16T06:57:17 < Xogium> https://www.arduino.cc/en/pmwiki.php?n=Main/ArduinoBoardMicro
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2022-02-16T07:12:04 < rajkosto> they generate 5V via NPC1117-5
2022-02-16T07:12:25 < rajkosto> if you provide VIN, it needs to be higher than 5V for it to LDO it
2022-02-16T07:12:33 < rajkosto> otherwise, its idle and VUSB is used to make 5V
2022-02-16T07:12:58 < Xogium> .. oh
2022-02-16T07:13:11 < Xogium> I didn,t know there was vin pin
2022-02-16T07:13:24 < Xogium> I thought only usb so I was like… what the ? I though usb is always 5v
2022-02-16T07:13:27 < rajkosto> NCP1117-5, 6-20V since maximum dropout voltage is 1.2V
2022-02-16T07:14:19 < rajkosto> VIN is pin 3 of the header
2022-02-16T07:14:48 < rajkosto> you should have checked the schematic
2022-02-16T07:15:21 < Xogium> I can't check schematics if my eyes don't work
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2022-02-16T07:26:57 < rajkosto> well it's on the page too, under the "Power" heading
2022-02-16T07:27:50 < Xogium> hrm. I see
2022-02-16T07:27:53 < Xogium> thanks :)
2022-02-16T07:28:14 < Xogium> I still think having added the fact that it could powered 2 ways in the spec table would have been better but…
2022-02-16T07:28:17 < Xogium> yeah
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2022-02-16T10:27:57 < Steffanx> Xogium: you do know how to confuse people, because a few days ago you said something like "I've seen a video about people using IPA in an ultrasonic cleaner" 😉
2022-02-16T10:34:48 < Xogium> Steffanx: heh reflexive talk I guess
2022-02-16T10:34:58 < Xogium> everyone around me say that so I talk the same
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2022-02-16T10:55:07 < zyp> I also noticed that, but decided not to comment
2022-02-16T10:56:44 < Steffanx> Hah, same, but now I had to 
2022-02-16T10:56:47 < BrainDamage> yeah, I assume the idioms are hardly ingrained in all of us
2022-02-16T10:57:04 < BrainDamage> like when you write that you heard about x, when you've read it
2022-02-16T10:57:12 < BrainDamage> etc
2022-02-16T10:59:02 < Steffanx> But thats because newspapers talk "the newspaper said... "
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2022-02-16T11:04:39 < Steffanx> Anyway, back to getting zapped by this high voltage psu.
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2022-02-16T11:07:19 < qyx> I want one too
2022-02-16T11:07:32 < qyx> to test my innovative input protection
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2022-02-16T11:24:03 < qyx> lol I just realised I submitted out-of-specs PCB to aisler
2022-02-16T11:24:39 < qyx> they shouldn't be able to do 4/4 but the board already hit manufacturing
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2022-02-16T11:45:57 < karlp> Steffanx: how hi voltage?
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2022-02-16T11:52:45 < Steffanx> 750V to 2kV or so, but I dont know much about the hardware, is a blackbox for me.
2022-02-16T11:53:00 < Steffanx> The current is also very low
2022-02-16T12:01:20 < mawk> black blocs?
2022-02-16T12:01:23 < mawk> Steffanx = antifa
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2022-02-16T17:52:18 < benishor> https://i.imgur.com/DDLQ2lp.jpeg
2022-02-16T17:53:22 < benishor> PaulFertser: am I allowed to use a modified version of your stm32-tx-hid-bootloader for my purposes?
2022-02-16T18:00:11 < PaulFertser> benishor: hi
2022-02-16T18:00:35 < PaulFertser> benishor: I think it's under GPL
2022-02-16T18:00:44 < PaulFertser> Not my code
2022-02-16T18:01:09 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-02-16T18:03:51 < benishor> ah, ok, thanks!
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2022-02-16T18:17:02 < bitmask> o/
2022-02-16T18:25:41 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/FjE45WG6
2022-02-16T18:25:47 < Laurenceb> does that look sane?
2022-02-16T18:26:09 < Laurenceb> first version bricked my pi, I've now swapped lines 12 and 13
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2022-02-16T18:33:26 < ventYl> some partitioning tool can "persist" and "reload" partition settings
2022-02-16T18:33:34 < ventYl> I guess, that this is what you really want here
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2022-02-16T18:53:01 < mawk> I'm trying to jtag a piece of esp32 crap
2022-02-16T18:53:27 < mawk> there's no reset pin broken out on the board, so it kinda works when I plug in the board and in the same second I launch openocd, but it's a bit flaky
2022-02-16T18:53:33 < mawk> I should find and connect the reset pin
2022-02-16T18:55:49 < mawk> there is no nTRST pin on the esp32, there is only a nRST pin I think
2022-02-16T19:10:47 < Steffanx> nTRST is overrated anyway 
2022-02-16T19:14:50 < mawk> why Steffanx 
2022-02-16T19:20:06 < mawk> the 5V output pin on the jlink doesn't seem to work
2022-02-16T19:22:53 < bitmask> why wont my nose stop running
2022-02-16T19:23:00 < bitmask> its been over a month
2022-02-16T19:23:15 < Xogium> alergy ?
2022-02-16T19:23:28 < bitmask> i dont think so but cant be sure
2022-02-16T19:23:56 < Xogium> something's clearly bothering that poor nose though
2022-02-16T19:24:15 < bitmask> i thought it was a sinus infection but the length of time is strange
2022-02-16T19:24:40 < Steffanx> Did you enable it mawk?
2022-02-16T19:24:42 < bitmask> i read if it lasts longer than a week its most likely bacterial and I took antibiotics
2022-02-16T19:25:28 < Steffanx> Did you get the covid again, bitmask?
2022-02-16T19:25:37 < bitmask> it hasnt gone away
2022-02-16T19:25:40 < Xogium> yeah that's what they gave to me when I got sick with a sinus inffection that went all the way to my ears and caused both runny nose and earache
2022-02-16T19:25:43 < bitmask> its the same thing
2022-02-16T19:26:01 < bitmask> my ears are affected too
2022-02-16T19:26:05 < bitmask> crackling and stuff
2022-02-16T19:26:15 < Xogium> yep this ain't good
2022-02-16T19:26:18 < Steffanx> Still covidded? Damn
2022-02-16T19:27:17 < bitmask> i have to sleep with tissue in my nose some nights so I dont wake up with a pool of thick nasty snot on my pillow
2022-02-16T19:27:30 < Xogium> darn wow this is bad
2022-02-16T19:28:00 < Xogium> but at least your nose isn't completely stuffed :p
2022-02-16T19:28:12 < Xogium> as in you just can't breath
2022-02-16T19:29:04 < Xogium> sounds like you should go make another trip to the doctor though
2022-02-16T19:29:15 < bitmask> it is completely stuffed sometimes but its only my left nostril. i guess it has to be an infection if its only affecting one side
2022-02-16T19:29:49 < Xogium> well, depends, it might just not have gotten to the other side yet
2022-02-16T19:30:24 < bitmask> what could migrate besides an infection though
2022-02-16T19:30:38 < jpa-> mawk: the jlink power output is switched by software
2022-02-16T19:30:45 < mawk> a
2022-02-16T19:30:54 < mawk> that may explain things 
2022-02-16T19:31:07 < Steffanx> That's why I asked if you enable it 😅
2022-02-16T19:31:16 < Xogium> hmm yeah, probably an inffection. But maybe it would be possible with a virus as well
2022-02-16T19:31:33 < mawk> it's normal bitmask 
2022-02-16T19:31:41 < mawk> that only one nostril is stuffed
2022-02-16T19:31:48 < jpa-> (the reason for the power switch is probably exactly what you are doing: connecting without reset pin)
2022-02-16T19:31:49 < mawk> and over a few hours it can switch sides 
2022-02-16T19:31:55 < mawk> it's a natural body mechanism
2022-02-16T19:32:08 < bitmask> mawk its been over a month
2022-02-16T19:32:20 < bitmask> still same side
2022-02-16T19:32:29 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-16T19:32:39 < Steffanx> But one day and it can be on the other side ;)
2022-02-16T19:32:44 < bitmask> heh
2022-02-16T19:32:55 < Steffanx> Few  hours*
2022-02-16T19:33:30 < Xogium> I guess it does that so you don't end up with both completely stuffed
2022-02-16T19:33:44 < Steffanx> Does mawk have a REAL jewlink?
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2022-02-16T19:38:13 < bitmask> hmm, this is never gonna work, i gotta start over :( https://imgur.com/a/9HZS4EG
2022-02-16T19:38:24 < bitmask> i over complicated it
2022-02-16T19:41:44 < jpa-> diametrically magnetized magnets?
2022-02-16T19:43:25 < bitmask> yea
2022-02-16T19:44:25 < bitmask> the air gap is way too big. I designed it to put some nickel/iron rods through the middle and get those as close to the magnets as possible but then I heard hysteresis is a thing/problem
2022-02-16T19:45:15 < bitmask> I also dont know if that design would work as intended, i dont know anything about magnets
2022-02-16T19:46:15 < bitmask> would that work? i the first pic with the coils wound, see the 3 holes in the 'bobbin' part? I was gonna cut pieces of the rod and stick em in there
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2022-02-16T19:49:53 < Steffanx> I'm not even sure what this is supposed to be, bitmask  ..
2022-02-16T19:50:06 < bitmask> a laser galvo
2022-02-16T19:50:11 < bitmask> single axis
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2022-02-16T19:51:02 < jpa-> probably quite inefficient when you don't have any iron core
2022-02-16T19:51:21 < bitmask> agreed but most seem to be aircore
2022-02-16T19:51:56 < bitmask> I might just try what most of em do and have the magnet basically sitting inside the coil
2022-02-16T19:51:59 < jpa-> hmm yeah, hysteresis is probably a problem for accurate control
2022-02-16T19:52:21 < jpa-> i would just steal the mechanism from a harddrive, where they have iron core for the permanent magnets and a moving coil
2022-02-16T19:52:48 < bitmask> id rather a moving magnet than moving coil
2022-02-16T19:52:53 < jpa-> why?
2022-02-16T19:53:37 < bitmask> seems simpler, there is a real reason I think, i just dont know/remember it
2022-02-16T19:54:37 < jpa-> seems like magnets & metal axis etc. is just a lot of extra mass to slow things down
2022-02-16T20:00:06 < bitmask> what are you actually saving though? you still need a metal axis, its just magnets vs some wire
2022-02-16T20:00:35 < jpa-> you don't need a metal axis that is thick enough to transmit any torque
2022-02-16T20:01:02 < jpa-> just mount the coil to the back of the mirror and have some needle bearings for it to swing around
2022-02-16T20:01:44 < jpa-> err, not needle roller bearing, but something like jewel bearing
2022-02-16T20:01:54 < jpa-> instead of bulky and heavy ball bearing
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2022-02-16T20:04:20 < bitmask> positioning system needs some strength
2022-02-16T20:04:45 < bitmask> its gotta extend all the way
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2022-02-16T20:49:47 < benishor> where do you guys get mcus nowadays?
2022-02-16T20:50:48 < qyx> mouser
2022-02-16T20:51:24 < benishor> anything in stock?
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2022-02-16T20:52:27 < Steffanx> esp32
2022-02-16T20:52:45 < qyx> avr
2022-02-16T21:01:50 < qyx> no joking
2022-02-16T21:04:41 < benishor> el lol
2022-02-16T21:04:42 < benishor> I meant stm32
2022-02-16T21:05:16 < qyx> plenty of L0, L1, L4 in stock
2022-02-16T21:05:50 < qyx> also WL, WB
2022-02-16T21:06:08 < Steffanx> Unless you want CAN, then good luck 
2022-02-16T21:06:54 < benishor> I was more into Fs
2022-02-16T21:07:17 < qyx> no Fs, zero F0, zero F1, sometimes F2/F4
2022-02-16T21:07:46 < qyx> also G0 in stock and sometimes G4, but I like G4 so I grab them whenever there are any
2022-02-16T21:11:34 < benishor> it's like we live in a scifi movie for the last couple of years
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2022-02-16T21:14:40 < qyx> karlp: hows your stackable usb hub design
2022-02-16T21:15:36 < qyx> I need something to steal and put inside those legrand socket ducting
2022-02-16T21:16:36 < qyx> hm, ideally integrated into a null-socket-cover
2022-02-16T21:16:39 < qyx> like https://www.legrand.com/ecatalogue/079394-double-usb-socket-mosaic-5.html
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2022-02-16T21:53:33 < karlp> well, that's "just buy the double stack host-a part"
2022-02-16T21:53:48 < karlp> no hub required there...
2022-02-16T21:55:36 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_Jing-Extension-of-the-Electronic-Co-907-111A1022D10200_C12049.html for cheap, https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/w%C3%BCrth-elektronik/61400826021/2060603 for expensive
2022-02-16T21:58:45 < Laurenceb> does anyone know if I could raw access past the end of a partition in Lunix using /dev/mmcblk0p<x>  ?
2022-02-16T21:59:03 < Laurenceb> wondering if I could ever corrupt other partitions by accident
2022-02-16T22:00:12 < benishor> I see chinese have a lot of STM32Fs to sell, all "new original IC"
2022-02-16T22:00:28 < benishor> too afraid to buy though
2022-02-16T22:01:14 < Laurenceb> heh yeah, there are loads of Nucleo boards on ebay
2022-02-16T22:01:19 < Laurenceb> just at 2x the stock price
2022-02-16T22:01:47 < Laurenceb> ok question answered https://askubuntu.com/questions/969176/can-dd-overwrite-adjacent-partitions
2022-02-16T22:02:08 < karlp> man, blender is super more complicated than I thought
2022-02-16T22:02:18 < Laurenceb> its awful
2022-02-16T22:02:19 < karlp> I was like, "I'll just import in blender, throw some text on a face, hit render"
2022-02-16T22:02:23 < Laurenceb> freecad ftw
2022-02-16T22:02:35 < karlp> well, freecad straight up doesn't do text on faces nicely,
2022-02-16T22:02:41 < Laurenceb> only Pixar need blender
2022-02-16T22:02:44 < karlp> and I was told "that's not really what you do in freecad"
2022-02-16T22:02:52 < karlp> but blender is differently weird.
2022-02-16T22:03:04 < karlp> also, export stl from freecad, 53mm wide.
2022-02-16T22:03:11 < karlp> blender says it's 53m wide.
2022-02-16T22:04:15 < Laurenceb> yeah theres a unit setting in freecad
2022-02-16T22:06:03 < qyx> karlp: yeah but I want like 3-4 such double sockets on the table, hubbed one by one
2022-02-16T22:06:36 < karlp> so images and text I wanted to put on top are now wildly
2022-02-16T22:07:01 < karlp> qyx: youc an just take https://github.com/karlp/hubbish and finish it? :)
2022-02-16T22:07:14 < karlp> I've been working way too much on work work haven't had energy for more shits
2022-02-16T22:07:28 < karlp> it's mostly just laziness, you're a layout wiz, should be no problem to finish now.
2022-02-16T22:07:49 < karlp> plan is to just 3d print via the internet a case now, fuck trying to make it fit something off the shelf.
2022-02-16T22:08:31 < karlp> Laurenceb: in what world would a cad package say something's in one unit and then just _not_ export in the same units? that's just wildly buggy IMO
2022-02-16T22:10:09 < qyx> karlp: I promised ventyl to do some work first, so FIFO, I may look at it
2022-02-16T22:10:12 < qyx> v6 though
2022-02-16T22:11:11 < karlp> you betcha.
2022-02-16T22:11:32 < karlp> I sitll want to finish it, I want to do the switcher design, I've never done one that big, but it's also.... _work_
2022-02-16T22:11:41 < karlp> I bought the parts for it while it was in stock though so... :)
2022-02-16T22:11:45 < karlp> that wsa meant to motivate me
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2022-02-16T22:56:54 < ds2> always assume there maybe a factor of 254 difference in cad files :(
2022-02-16T23:08:10 < karlp> turns out this is apparently a blender side issue.
2022-02-16T23:08:37 < karlp> but fuck me, all I wanted to do was nicely get text "stuck" on faces, simlating labels and branding, but noooooo
2022-02-16T23:13:32 < qyx> karlp: convert text to paths -> dxf -> import as sketch -> pad to 0.1 mm, move to the face
2022-02-16T23:14:26 < karlp> yeah, the whole "make it 3d" is just fuckingabsurd.
2022-02-16T23:15:02 < karlp> watchingblender tutorials I understand how people do gnarly shit, but fuck, there's gotta be abetter way for some things :)
2022-02-16T23:15:11 < karlp> so burnt out on it :)
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2022-02-16T23:18:18 < ds2> blender is a 3d animator tool not cad
2022-02-16T23:18:43 < karlp> it was advised by freecad discord for "adding text and graphics to a finished 3d model"
2022-02-16T23:18:51 < karlp> I'm all ears if there's somethingbetter.
2022-02-16T23:19:28 < karlp> svg image plane in freecad appears with ~zero resolution all blurry, and the render potions of freecad don't allow y ou to include the image plane.s
2022-02-16T23:19:54 < karlp> so you can "make them 3d" by engraving them all to 0.1mm or something garbage, but that just seem so wildly wrong.
2022-02-16T23:20:02 < ds2> for cheap tools, I'd start with inkscape and export a DXF; then import DXF and extrude and place
2022-02-16T23:20:13 < karlp> though perhaps correct if you're really trying to "make a sticker" I guess...
2022-02-16T23:20:15 < ds2> or corel
2022-02-16T23:20:32 < karlp> so yeah, your method is "make it 3d" :9
2022-02-16T23:20:49 < ds2> make it 3d in most CAD is extrude
2022-02-16T23:21:04 < ds2> free form stuff like Rhino is a bit different
2022-02-16T23:21:34 < ds2> the overall path is - convert font to a path, use path to extrude
2022-02-16T23:21:52 < qyx> yeah, I mentioned that, karlp doesn't like it
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2022-02-16T23:22:03 < karlp> you can't keep coloured logos and shit like that,
2022-02-16T23:22:10 < ds2> some of the slight expensive tools will do it all for you
2022-02-16T23:22:11 < karlp> it's .... ok, but it's still shit IMO
2022-02-16T23:22:22 < ds2> color? what are you using this for? most CAD systems don't really do color
2022-02-16T23:22:35 < karlp> because, like I said, this is to be "labels" on a case.
2022-02-16T23:23:00 < ds2> as in a mock up case or a physical case?
2022-02-16T23:23:19 < karlp> and freecad goes, "no no no, out of scope" and you guys are like, "just turn it into a 3d shape!" and blender is like "here's a tool for making a movie, that can do any imaginable sequence of texture mapping, if you know how to use it"
2022-02-16T23:23:29 < ds2> color is done on the CAM end
2022-02-16T23:23:37 < karlp> upwell, the freecad is the "actual" case, but I want to put stickers on to make a mock 
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2022-02-16T23:23:55 < karlp> which to me sounds _extremely_ reasonable and a commondesire, but apparently I'm crazy
2022-02-16T23:24:32 < ds2> oh like that... freecad may not support that... maybe render the sticker to a image and apply it as a texture in those animation packages like blender?
2022-02-16T23:25:00 < karlp> .... :)
2022-02-16T23:25:07 < karlp> and that's why I was in blender :)
2022-02-16T23:25:17 < ds2> thought you were making a real physical case mockup
2022-02-16T23:25:47 < karlp> I already have the physical case model in freecad, my issue is that it's no good for marketting and promo like that.
2022-02-16T23:26:19 < ds2> 3 print and paint? :D
2022-02-16T23:26:29 < karlp> and then what, take a fucking photo?
2022-02-16T23:26:38 < ds2> *nod* 
2022-02-16T23:26:45 < karlp> this is what the tools are  meant to be for, IMO :9
2022-02-16T23:43:43 < Xogium> ... that moment where you buy a psu for something then realize you picked the wrong size of barrel jack
2022-02-16T23:45:30 < Xogium> I have no idea what the original psu used as barrel jack, I simply assumed standard 2.5mm for internal and 5.5 mm external
2022-02-16T23:45:46 < Xogium> I can't measure the size of the hole :p
2022-02-16T23:46:08 < Xogium> at any rate 5.5 mm is wrong because it won't even fit
2022-02-16T23:47:42 < Xogium> of course original psu has 0 details on what diameter it uses
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2022-02-16T23:49:52 < Xogium> you guys have any tips on how to deal with that ?
2022-02-16T23:51:30 < Xogium> trying to replace the psu for my external hard drive actually. Thing came with a 2 prong US plug, and the US to EU plug adapters are, honestly dangerous business. They barely hold the US plug tight enough because they are so tiny, which means you can easily disconnect it from the adapter… which still transmit 240v
2022-02-16T23:51:57 < Xogium> I could more or less stick my finger in one of the sockets
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2022-02-16T23:52:45 < Xogium> I know its 12v 1.5a center positive, but that is all
2022-02-16T23:52:50 < karlp> this is (one of) the reasons why I hate barrel jacks :|
2022-02-16T23:52:55 < karlp> soooooo many bullshit variants
2022-02-16T23:53:00 < Xogium> oh, yes. Most definitely
2022-02-16T23:53:45 < Xogium> I mean, I don't hate them as much if the vendor actually bothers providing the info about diameters, center positive or negative
2022-02-16T23:53:52 < Xogium> but… yeah, wd did not
2022-02-16T23:55:32 < Xogium> could I somehow make an educated guess based on the original psu ? Is there at least a way to measure the external diameter ?
2022-02-16T23:56:39 < qyx> I would say a PCB ruler with holes would work for you
2022-02-16T23:57:00 < Xogium> qyx: what is that ?
2022-02-16T23:57:28 < qyx> some PCB fabs send PCB rulesr with warious.. things on them
2022-02-16T23:57:34 < qyx> footprints, slots, holes, etc.
2022-02-16T23:57:38 < qyx> of different sizes
2022-02-16T23:57:55 < qyx> or simply a ruler with holes, we used to have such things in school to draw circles
2022-02-16T23:58:01 < Xogium> oh
2022-02-16T23:58:36 < qyx> so you can check which hole is big enough for anything and determine the size by its position
2022-02-16T23:58:43 < qyx> *for the connector
2022-02-16T23:58:50 < Xogium> cause then I'm guessing like, wonderful if I find the outer diameter ! But I need to find the iner diameter too, or the plug might fit in but not get to the pin in the connector
--- Day changed Thu Feb 17 2022
2022-02-17T00:00:08 < ds2> access to a metrology lab with a gage pin set?
2022-02-17T00:00:19 < Xogium> lol, I wish
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2022-02-17T01:28:03 < upgrdman> c/c++ pros: you know how visual studio will show a graph of memory usage while debugging? is there an easy way for a program to query this programmatically, to help check for memory leaks?
2022-02-17T01:29:31 < upgrdman> in other words, i'd like to query memory usage at the start and end of a function call, to check for leaks
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2022-02-17T02:50:24 < bitmask> wow, this air core electromagnet I wound, was it really readying 0.27 mG before adding a little 2-3mm nickel/iron rod to the middle of it and 5mG after? 
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2022-02-17T11:42:15 < josuah> hello all! I wonder: where is the FTDI hate rooted from?
2022-02-17T11:42:59 < josuah> I see a lot of rant in the lines of "this chip caused too much brain damage already and need to go away for good"
2022-02-17T11:43:25 < josuah> along with "it is the easiest way for a board maker to get that MCU working with OpenOCD
2022-02-17T11:43:44 < Xogium> josuah: not sure. I didn,t know people even hated ftdi chip
2022-02-17T11:43:57 < Xogium> I personally find it very neat to use for serial communication
2022-02-17T11:44:09 < Xogium> at any rate, a LOT better than ch341
2022-02-17T11:44:15 < mawk> josuah: they pushed a driver update that bricked all counterfeit FTDI chips
2022-02-17T11:44:18 < mawk> intentionally
2022-02-17T11:44:23 < rajkosto> isnt it because everyone used it for serial comms to make the arduinos USB 
2022-02-17T11:44:29 < josuah> https://hackaday.com/2017/01/05/hands-on-with-the-first-open-source-microcontroller/
2022-02-17T11:44:34 < rajkosto> so the chinese cloned it, and everyone kept using the clones
2022-02-17T11:44:37 < qyx> and according to some it didn't work under windwos
2022-02-17T11:44:40 < rajkosto> and FTDI got wise to it and bricked all the clones in a driver update
2022-02-17T11:44:42 < josuah> mawk: wait what?!
2022-02-17T11:44:42 < qyx> as expected
2022-02-17T11:44:48 < josuah> ah the clones
2022-02-17T11:44:59 < mawk> it's still a dick move
2022-02-17T11:45:05 < josuah> hahahahahaha
2022-02-17T11:45:06 < Xogium> what's wrong with just using the genuine chip :p
2022-02-17T11:45:19 < rajkosto> too expensive
2022-02-17T11:45:23 < josuah> what a bunch of savages
2022-02-17T11:45:23 < mawk> you could have a product using fake ftdi you don't know is using fake ftdi
2022-02-17T11:45:25 < rajkosto> uart to usb is a commodity IP, anyone can clone it
2022-02-17T11:45:26 < mawk> and now it's bricked
2022-02-17T11:45:45 < qyx> you shall not destroy anything you are not owning
2022-02-17T11:45:49 < qyx> being fake or legit
2022-02-17T11:45:59 < josuah> it is a dick move because it affects the users
2022-02-17T11:46:22 < josuah> a master move would have been affecting the fake chip vendor without affecting the users
2022-02-17T11:46:28 < qyx> also, expensive, also, unavailable
2022-02-17T11:46:46 < ventYl> qyx: my FDTI converter does silly things even under masox
2022-02-17T11:46:57 < josuah> so... windows users hate FTDI chips? :P
2022-02-17T11:47:07 < Xogium> hmm dunno, for me they just worked I guess
2022-02-17T11:47:07 < rajkosto> why ? its got good drivers under windows
2022-02-17T11:47:11 < qyx> idk never had a single issue on lunices
2022-02-17T11:47:13 < rajkosto> unlike say cp2102 or whatever it is
2022-02-17T11:47:21 < ventYl> pl2302?
2022-02-17T11:47:26 < rajkosto> that old nokia usb cable one no longer supported
2022-02-17T11:47:30 < rajkosto> since windows xp
2022-02-17T11:47:35 < Xogium> cp210x is awefull
2022-02-17T11:47:39 < tkoskine> I had some Arduino clones and "FTDI" JTAG adapters, which were using "fake"/clone FTDI chips. After FTDI's driver update, they were soft-bricked and unusable on Windows.
2022-02-17T11:47:42 < qyx> works too
2022-02-17T11:48:06 < josuah> rajkosto: because I suppose by "updating the driver to brick the fake chips" was done by submitting a new driver to Windows
2022-02-17T11:48:15 < Xogium> I have a board where if I leave the cp210x attached but not plugged via usb on my machine, it stops the boot process at u-boot and hangs until I plug it in
2022-02-17T11:48:22 < josuah> as for other operating systems, drivers would be done by the OS's authors
2022-02-17T11:48:28 < Xogium> my ftdi converter doesn't do such nonsense
2022-02-17T11:48:32 < josuah> (Linux, Mac OS, the BSDs, ...)
2022-02-17T11:48:32 < rajkosto> Xogium, you need a pullup on one of the uart lines then
2022-02-17T11:48:53 < qyx> Xogium: thats an implementation problem if the chip is unpowered
2022-02-17T11:48:58 < qyx> as rajkosto says
2022-02-17T11:49:28 < qyx> failed the same in the past
2022-02-17T11:49:33 < Xogium> it keeps happening with all my cp210x converters so I replaced them all with ftdi :D
2022-02-17T11:50:55 < Xogium> still didn't know it was that problem
2022-02-17T11:51:57 < Xogium> and then in linux you get even more fun things if you're blind
2022-02-17T11:52:20 < Xogium> sometimes brltty will try and grab your usb to serial adapter because it thinks it is a braille display
2022-02-17T11:53:50 < Xogium> I had to go and remove an udev rule that made brltty blindly try to grabv at any device id that matched ch341 uart converter
2022-02-17T11:53:59 < Xogium> will you please leave my poor dev board alone
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2022-02-17T11:55:52 < Xogium> which makes me kind of wonder how someone with a braille display that happened to use this uart chip would manage to work with a board that's also got one of these…
2022-02-17T11:56:03 < karlp> Xogium: that "holding the board in boot" is a usb2uart dongle design issue, not a ftdi vs silabs issue.
2022-02-17T11:56:29 < karlp> ftdi used to be realyl expensive too,
2022-02-17T11:56:37 < karlp> ft230x is much cheaper though these days.
2022-02-17T11:56:47 < Xogium> karlp: I figured as much… Just that every usb converter I ever got that were cp210x had this problem
2022-02-17T11:57:53 < karlp> eh well, you can also say it's a board design issue on the target too :)
2022-02-17T11:58:10 < Xogium> could be it…
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2022-02-17T11:58:19 < Xogium> but I never knew for sure
2022-02-17T11:58:22 < Xogium> orange pi zero
2022-02-17T11:58:38 < rajkosto> i have one of those, it sucks
2022-02-17T11:58:43 < Xogium> and now have no real way of ever checking because the damn thing almost blew up
2022-02-17T11:58:50 < rajkosto> mine did blow up
2022-02-17T11:59:43 < qyx> the pi did?
2022-02-17T11:59:52 < rajkosto> yeah it doesnt do anything more than heat up now
2022-02-17T11:59:53 < qyx> what happened?
2022-02-17T11:59:56 < zyp> zero or zero plus?
2022-02-17T12:00:09 < rajkosto> the H2 one with the bad wifi
2022-02-17T12:00:32 < Xogium> I honestly have no clue what happened. Like. I wasn't able to even think what might have gone wrong. Board ran fine for all my testing over 3 weeks. One morning, I plug it in, and while I wait for it to boot I go check on something else. I came back 30 secons later in the room to smell a weird smell I never had before. Try and try and try to find what that was… Burned my hand on the orange pi board 
2022-02-17T12:00:38 < Xogium> because it was trying to melt through its case. Ah… Melting plastic and frying electronic. Got it
2022-02-17T12:00:59 < rajkosto> the dc2dc on mine just gets real hot now, no other activity
2022-02-17T12:01:00 < zyp> I think I've got one of each, IIRC the zero was shit and the zero plus is ok and have been running for some years
2022-02-17T12:01:20 < qyx> reminds me the first odroid I got
2022-02-17T12:01:21 < Xogium> I still have the scar in the plm of my left hand
2022-02-17T12:01:28 < Xogium> *palm
2022-02-17T12:01:31 < qyx> some sama-something-g45
2022-02-17T12:02:06 < qyx> if you run it without a LCD attached, the step-up converter was pushing full power to a voltage limiting zener
2022-02-17T12:02:14 < zyp> I have the zero plus hooked up to some serial shit that it feeds commands to and events from, bridged to mqtt
2022-02-17T12:02:19 < Xogium> I mean, to leave a scar, I gather a burn would have to be quite high wouldn't it
2022-02-17T12:02:48 < mawk> that depends how you treat the wound afterwards also
2022-02-17T12:03:04 < mawk> but yeah I guess it has to be 2nd degree maybe
2022-02-17T12:03:44 < Xogium> but in the first few minutes, I couldn't even feel the pain. My body was so high on stress that I just could barely acknowledge that the thing was bloody hot somewhere in the back of my mind
2022-02-17T12:03:53 < Xogium> after that though ? FUCK that hurts
2022-02-17T12:05:35 < Xogium> the bottom of the plastic case was as soft as warm butter
2022-02-17T12:05:51 < mawk> did you spread some on bread?
2022-02-17T12:05:55 < Xogium> hehe
2022-02-17T12:06:04 < Xogium> no, but I'm fairly sure I could have done it
2022-02-17T12:07:45 < Xogium> I suppose it must have been a short of some kind
2022-02-17T12:08:18 < Xogium> but thing is that I change absolutely nothing to how I worked with the board, so I'm puzzled as to how it got so bad so fast
2022-02-17T12:08:42 < Xogium> typical stuff micro usb on board, other end in my pc… who knows really
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2022-02-17T12:52:57 < mawk> I haxxored google authenticator
2022-02-17T12:53:19 < mawk> I decoded its obfuscated qrcode it generates when you click "export keys to another google authenticator instance"
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2022-02-17T13:04:21 < jpa-> mawk: wasn't it already decoded? http://qistoph.blogspot.com/2020/09/google-authenticator-export-format.html
2022-02-17T13:04:44 < jpa-> seems like just a basic protobuf message
2022-02-17T13:05:09 < mawk> ah maybe
2022-02-17T13:05:12 < mawk> I didn't look very hard
2022-02-17T13:05:20 < mawk> yeah it's protobuf I guess
2022-02-17T13:05:37 < mawk> I found the key is in type 10 field
2022-02-17T13:05:47 < mawk> then I didn't decode the other fields but I don't need them
2022-02-17T13:06:03 < Steffanx> I'm still proud of you mawk 
2022-02-17T13:06:15 < mawk> :(
2022-02-17T13:06:28 < Steffanx> :( ? It's a compliment 
2022-02-17T13:06:37  * mawk cries
2022-02-17T13:06:48 < mawk> they interpret the key as base32 and put the key in binary, so it was a bit hard to find in the first place
2022-02-17T13:06:54 < mawk> since I didn't know the keys had to be valid base32
2022-02-17T13:07:12 < Steffanx> You prefer negative reinforcement? 
2022-02-17T13:07:19 < mawk> noooo
2022-02-17T13:21:52 < Steffanx> So what will you do now with this info mr mawk?
2022-02-17T13:26:06 < josuah> hack the nasa of course!
2022-02-17T13:26:11 < josuah> always hack the nasa
2022-02-17T13:45:51 < mawk> export my keys somewhere else Steffanx 
2022-02-17T13:51:05 < Steffanx> Somewhere else = share them publicly in ##stm32 ?
2022-02-17T13:53:57 < mawk> no :(
2022-02-17T13:53:59 < mawk> put in lastpass
2022-02-17T13:54:01 < mawk> lostpass
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2022-02-17T14:00:01 < englishman> funny, i didnt use google auth specifically because you could never get your keys out, so if you lost your phone or your assdroid crashed, you’d be locked out of everything. Years later and it still isn’t as good as authy but at least they tried!
2022-02-17T14:12:29 < qyx> https://eleshop.eu/uni-t-utg962e-function-generator.html
2022-02-17T14:12:34 < qyx> y/n?
2022-02-17T14:12:38 < qyx> looks cute and small
2022-02-17T14:12:45 < qyx> but uni-t and too cheap
2022-02-17T14:14:04 < BrainDamage> wow, that's insanely cheap
2022-02-17T14:14:15 < BrainDamage> also, lateral bnc looks odd
2022-02-17T14:14:22 < BrainDamage> I'd rather have them on the back
2022-02-17T14:14:54 < BrainDamage> I guess with some T connector to bring them to the front/back
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2022-02-17T14:22:06 < mawk> the esp32 uses some of the JTAG pins as "strapping pins"
2022-02-17T14:22:25 < mawk> so if jlink is asserting something on the jtag pins during a reset it will mess up the module
2022-02-17T14:22:29 < mawk> nice
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2022-02-17T14:26:09 < mawk> can I scramble openocd so it uses the 5V supply pin to reset the board, instead of using the nRST pin?
2022-02-17T14:26:44 < BrainDamage> you're sounding like laurenceb right now
2022-02-17T14:26:44 < ventYl> probably yes
2022-02-17T14:27:04 < ventYl> disable nrst entirely and write tcl script which handles reset for you
2022-02-17T14:28:59 < mawk> BrainDamage :(
2022-02-17T14:29:45 < qyx> hm, how is filter response commonly measured, input white noise -> spectrometer
2022-02-17T14:29:59 < qyx> or a sweeping sine -> power detector, any meter, scope?
2022-02-17T14:30:24 < jpa-> i usually do sweeping sine -> scope & DFT/goertzel detector
2022-02-17T14:30:37 < BrainDamage> sweeping sine is most common method
2022-02-17T14:30:45 < jpa-> gets better dynamic range in presence of noise
2022-02-17T14:31:08 < BrainDamage> comb generator / white noise is when you want a qualitative fast characterization
2022-02-17T14:33:23 < qyx> I could measure the overall resposne if I script the thing
2022-02-17T14:33:26 < qyx> ok then
2022-02-17T14:33:57 < jpa-> with scope, you'll probably want to use a second channel as reference also
2022-02-17T14:34:11 < jpa-> that allows you to get the phase angle of output & compensate for any inaccuracy in frequency generator
2022-02-17T14:34:58 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/DS1054_BodePlotter/blob/master/dft.py
2022-02-17T14:36:12 < BrainDamage> the narrow you can filter on the sine's freq, the better dyn range you can have
2022-02-17T14:36:30 < BrainDamage> generally that trades off in measurement time, having to sweep slower and slower
2022-02-17T14:39:19 < qyx> jpa-: didn't you try to access owon scope over usb/eth?
2022-02-17T14:39:34 < jpa-> i don't have owon scope
2022-02-17T14:39:43 < jpa-> i have owon multimeter
2022-02-17T14:45:23 < karlp> oh, willsemi got aquired byomnivision, and now it's all NRND?!
2022-02-17T14:46:40 < karlp> fucking the page is sitll there, how do I stop the redirect?!
2022-02-17T14:47:03 < karlp> oh shit, it's in reverse, will semi bought omnivision!
2022-02-17T14:47:12 < karlp> still, where's allthe will semi parts now?
2022-02-17T14:49:30 < qyx> onsemi?
2022-02-17T14:49:46 < qyx> willsemi?
2022-02-17T14:49:49 < qyx> wtf is willsemi
2022-02-17T14:51:52 < karlp> they made a bunch of cheap opamps and shits in china.
2022-02-17T14:55:29 < karlp> damn I wish lcsc had better parametric data
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2022-02-17T14:56:27 < qyx> re: 5 -> 3V3 switching regulators
2022-02-17T14:56:42 < qyx> going back to LM3671MF I used 5 years ago
2022-02-17T14:56:47 < qyx> nothing else is available
2022-02-17T14:57:02 < ventYl> what now?
2022-02-17T14:57:08 < ventYl> scalpers or wtf?
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2022-02-17T15:14:11 < mawk> when I use hot glue I always use hot air afterwards to remelt it in a nicely shaped puddle 
2022-02-17T15:14:35 < mawk> I prefer good looking blobs to ugly blobs
2022-02-17T15:14:57 < BrainDamage> i wish the extruders would be a bit less simplcistic than just pushing the stick in the gun
2022-02-17T15:15:12 < BrainDamage> even a small motor with a screw drive would give way better control
2022-02-17T15:15:16 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-17T15:20:25 < karlp> but then how would it dribble all over everything?!
2022-02-17T15:21:00 < karlp> heh, omnivision replied, "I’m sorry but due to the current extremely tight capacity constraints we are unfortunately unable to support your project at this time.  It would be unfair to move forward together at this time when we currently do not have the parts available."
2022-02-17T15:21:27 < karlp> not sure she really understood the question, but looks like all the existing will semiconductor parts are just instan EOL'd
2022-02-17T15:22:06 < qyx> are you integrating a cam to your meters?
2022-02-17T15:31:39 < Mangy_Dog> is a 1.6M / 1M voltage devider too slow to charge a gpio?
2022-02-17T15:31:44 < Mangy_Dog> for a button
2022-02-17T15:32:17 < Mangy_Dog> from a 8v source
2022-02-17T15:36:50 < qyx> I am not sure how do you want to use it
2022-02-17T15:38:59 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1dcj9/Screenshot_2022-02-17_14-38-43.png
2022-02-17T15:39:00 < qyx> ?
2022-02-17T15:41:18 < Mangy_Dog> nods like that, or button just before the devider line
2022-02-17T15:41:47 < Mangy_Dog> ie still between the resistors but on the positive side
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2022-02-17T15:42:26 < qyx> yes the latter one would work
2022-02-17T15:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/943864971111063602/unknown.png
2022-02-17T15:42:44 < Mangy_Dog> just realised it also needs to charge a mosfet gate
2022-02-17T15:43:59 < Mangy_Dog> anyway a million ohm + resistors... wont be too slow?
2022-02-17T15:44:04 < Mangy_Dog> to charge them up?
2022-02-17T15:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> or is it just about potential rather than current
2022-02-17T15:48:46 < jpa-> what is "PB-"?
2022-02-17T15:48:59 < Mangy_Dog> power bank negative
2022-02-17T15:49:04 < jpa-> if it is not the same as microcontroller GND, that thing is probably not going to do what you expect it to do
2022-02-17T15:49:08 < Mangy_Dog> on the battery side of the main mosfet switch
2022-02-17T15:49:27 < Mangy_Dog> it will be
2022-02-17T15:49:33 < Mangy_Dog> as it powers the mosfet on
2022-02-17T15:49:58 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/943866838796881930/unknown.png
2022-02-17T15:50:09 < mawk> JTAG scan chain interrogation failed: all zeroes
2022-02-17T15:50:12 < mawk> what does that mean
2022-02-17T15:50:28 < mawk> it can find the "jtag tap" stuff now that I connected reset
2022-02-17T15:50:32 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: your circuit looks strange to me
2022-02-17T15:50:54 < Mangy_Dog> how so?
2022-02-17T15:51:29 < jpa-> is this a charger or a device that drains the battery?
2022-02-17T15:51:37 < Mangy_Dog> both
2022-02-17T15:52:09 < jpa-> so what is that GND mosfet supposed to do? it certainly doesn't turn the device off, as the parasitic diode is forward biased
2022-02-17T15:52:56 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2022-02-17T15:53:11 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/943867650252107827/unknown.png
2022-02-17T15:53:37 < Mangy_Dog> Its for powering on the circuit and connecting the battery....
2022-02-17T15:53:42 < Mangy_Dog> Two ways turn on the circuit...
2022-02-17T15:54:12 < jpa-> the circuit looks like it will always be on, with either the full battery voltage or -0.7V
2022-02-17T15:54:15 < Mangy_Dog> The button charges the mosfet and powers it on. Allowing system ground to reach battery... THen the MCU turns on and takes over the mosfet control. keeping it on
2022-02-17T15:54:23 < Mangy_Dog> Or. THe PSU is plugged in.
2022-02-17T15:54:24 < jpa-> you do know about mosfet parasitic diodes, right?
2022-02-17T15:54:27 < Mangy_Dog> turns on the mosfet
2022-02-17T15:55:46 < Mangy_Dog> the mcu detects the adapter is plugged in... and displays a charging message while not allowing the main function to turn on... IE the studio light....
2022-02-17T15:56:08 < Mangy_Dog> how do you mean? I thought the internal diode was to force one way?
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2022-02-17T15:56:41 < qyx> I think you are complicating things
2022-02-17T15:56:48 < qyx> for charging detection, use the STAT output
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2022-02-17T15:57:03 < qyx> BQ usually has also a AC_OK output so you can check if the adaptor is present
2022-02-17T15:57:14 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: the internal diode is a diode - if you connect it in forward direction in series with a battery bank, the mosfet will not turn fully off
2022-02-17T15:57:35 < qyx> the BATFET (Q5) together with tha charging loginc/NVDC logic takes care of connecting your SYSTEM voltage to the battery
2022-02-17T15:57:53 < Mangy_Dog> jpa so i need a resistor to drain the gate to battery-?
2022-02-17T15:57:58 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: no
2022-02-17T15:58:08 < qyx> you need a back-to-back mosfet
2022-02-17T15:58:09 < jpa-> the diode will be there, no matter what you put on gate
2022-02-17T15:58:26 < jpa-> back-to-back mosfet or just think whether you really need to prevent *charging* when there is no charger connected anyway
2022-02-17T15:58:42 < qyx> what do you want to acieve again?
2022-02-17T15:58:47 < jpa-> i.e. maybe you might be better off with a p-mosfet and high side switching to get the diode in a reasonable direction
2022-02-17T15:59:23 < Mangy_Dog> qyx isolate the battery and turn off the system fully
2022-02-17T15:59:31 < mawk> I added delays here and there and now it almost connects
2022-02-17T15:59:35 < mawk> but it says "Warn : Not full dbg stub table 1 of 2"
2022-02-17T15:59:48 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: for what purpose?
2022-02-17T16:00:10 < Mangy_Dog> adding a "shipping mode" that this charger doesnt have
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2022-02-17T16:00:14 < BrainDamage> Mangy_Dog: attach a voltage generator in place of the battery, draw the current as it's sinked by the circuit, then confront with the diode's direction
2022-02-17T16:00:29 < Mangy_Dog> seemed to make sence to me at the time to use that setup for mcu power control
2022-02-17T16:00:36 < BrainDamage> if it's the same, the mos won't open
2022-02-17T16:01:04 < BrainDamage> as in, will let the current through the internal diode, no matter the control signal
2022-02-17T16:01:10 < qyx> if you ship the thing, you will probably need to fully remove the battery
2022-02-17T16:01:21 < Mangy_Dog> thats not what shipping mode is just for
2022-02-17T16:01:25 < Mangy_Dog> its also a fully turned off state
2022-02-17T16:07:18 < Mangy_Dog> so what should i do?
2022-02-17T16:08:08 < jpa-> turn the mosfet around, for a start
2022-02-17T16:08:27 < jpa-> not sure if it will really work then either, but at least it makes a tiny bit more sense
2022-02-17T16:09:12 < Mangy_Dog> The ground you see on the 1 pin... Thats system ground... thats still the input to the mosfet.... 5 going to the battery minus pin... So thats the true ground
2022-02-17T16:10:25 < jpa-> yes, and if you think about the direction of the parasitic diode, it will always let the battery drain
2022-02-17T16:10:40 < jpa-> there is nothing "true" about one ground or other
2022-02-17T16:10:45 < jpa-> just direction of current
2022-02-17T16:11:01 < BrainDamage> replace with a npn bjt and it'll work if you keep the schottcky diode
2022-02-17T16:11:10 < jpa-> and current comes from BAT+ and wants to go back to BAT- and that diode is happy to allow it
2022-02-17T16:11:20 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2022-02-17T16:11:33 < Mangy_Dog> the gate closing allows the current to pass through
2022-02-17T16:11:39 < Mangy_Dog> oposite of the diode
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2022-02-17T16:11:48 < jpa-> BrainDamage: not with the megaohm resistors, and a BJT would waste 0.2V anyway and mess up li-ion charging
2022-02-17T16:12:00 < BrainDamage> true
2022-02-17T16:12:01 < BrainDamage> the gate is a red herring here
2022-02-17T16:12:09 < BrainDamage> forget the mos, leave just the diode
2022-02-17T16:12:09 < qyx> btw, you have electrolytic caps in the sch, I am pretty sure this BQ requires ceramics
2022-02-17T16:12:21 < Mangy_Dog> they are ceramic
2022-02-17T16:12:29 < Mangy_Dog> ive just not changed the symbols yet
2022-02-17T16:12:41 < Mangy_Dog> its atrange the example schematic for the chip uses polarised caps
2022-02-17T16:12:46 < Mangy_Dog> even though its not needed at all
2022-02-17T16:12:56 < Mangy_Dog> well polerised symbols
2022-02-17T16:13:00 < Mangy_Dog> even though it calls for ceramics
2022-02-17T16:13:04 < qyx> and I would say a single 10u on the input is not enough
2022-02-17T16:13:10 < Mangy_Dog> in the break down
2022-02-17T16:13:33 < Mangy_Dog> theres another 20u on the system line
2022-02-17T16:13:41 < Mangy_Dog> and its 20 u on the battery out
2022-02-17T16:34:36 < kakium69> what is ISR()?
2022-02-17T16:34:45 < kakium69> is it a macro or what
2022-02-17T16:36:07 < jpa-> where?
2022-02-17T16:36:13 < kakium69> in my code
2022-02-17T16:36:18 < jpa-> ...
2022-02-17T16:36:26 < jpa-> we didn't write your code
2022-02-17T16:36:28 < zyp> if it's your code, you should know
2022-02-17T16:36:30 < kakium69> i wrote it there
2022-02-17T16:36:44 < kakium69> I know what it does and how to use it
2022-02-17T16:36:49 < kakium69> sorry
2022-02-17T16:36:54 < kakium69> I know how to use it
2022-02-17T16:37:11 < kakium69> but I don't know exacly what ISR() is
2022-02-17T16:37:30 < kakium69> is it a macro defined somewhere
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2022-02-17T16:39:51 < kakium69> monkey see monkey does
2022-02-17T16:40:04 < kakium69> is it C++ thing that ISR()
2022-02-17T16:40:19 < kakium69> AVR thing maybe
2022-02-17T16:41:03 < jpa-> you can just grep from the headers you include
2022-02-17T16:41:41 < karlp> fucking forgot to order all my lm1117s again
2022-02-17T16:42:48 < kakium69> ah yes I need to include avr/interrupt.h
2022-02-17T16:43:11 < kakium69> this editor is weird it doesn't complain if I write non-included stuffs
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2022-02-17T17:18:50 < Steffanx> Avrlibc avr/interrupt.h kakium69  
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2022-02-17T17:19:08 < Steffanx> Oh scrolled up, you already found it
2022-02-17T17:19:11 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-17T17:19:24 < Steffanx> Good
2022-02-17T17:19:45 < kakium69> how is coding steff?
2022-02-17T17:20:46 < Steffanx> Not so much coding atm
2022-02-17T17:20:55 < Steffanx> More debugging code I did not write
2022-02-17T17:21:26 < Steffanx> And messing with this ADC issue, funniness
2022-02-17T17:23:34 < kakium69> ADC fun
2022-02-17T17:26:24 < kakium69> is it soft issue or hard issue? or softhard issue?
2022-02-17T17:28:22 < Steffanx> Or both.
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2022-02-17T17:37:10 < karlp> heh, "The exact number of reset cycles before failure varies due to process variations and oper-
2022-02-17T17:37:12 < karlp> ating temperature but would typically range between 50,000 and 200,000 cycles."
2022-02-17T17:37:55 < Steffanx> What's this?
2022-02-17T17:38:06 < karlp> some changelog entry for the silabs secure bootloader
2022-02-17T17:38:13 < kakium69> hmm
2022-02-17T17:38:28 < karlp> in some particular combination of flash erasing -and_ 50k plus resets, it can get stuck unbootable.
2022-02-17T17:38:37 < kakium69> while developing you could burn that chip in couple of minutes
2022-02-17T17:39:49 < karlp> 50k resets?
2022-02-17T17:40:04 < karlp> you'd have to be trying
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2022-02-17T18:01:16 < kakium69> loop?
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2022-02-17T18:02:56 < Steffanx> Why would you?
2022-02-17T18:03:12 < Steffanx> Except when youre trying to hack it or something 
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2022-02-17T18:55:47 < bitmask> ...
2022-02-17T18:56:25 < bitmask> just got some 1/4x1" N52 magnets in the mail, gave em to my gf to show her how strong they were, she cracked one right away
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2022-02-17T19:14:29 < karlp> man, even after working around shit for wayland, simplicity studio is still just busted.
2022-02-17T19:14:35 < karlp> like, can't use text forms.
2022-02-17T19:14:43 < karlp> how does someone fuck that shit up so badly.
2022-02-17T19:15:06 < karlp> anyway, restart fedora on xorg for a while I ugess.
2022-02-17T19:23:42 < Steffanx> Is it complain o'clock?
2022-02-17T19:23:58 < karlp> I guess, but this is a success story :)
2022-02-17T19:24:21 < karlp> I was going to try and just run ubuntu in a vm make sure I wasnt going insane.
2022-02-17T19:24:47 < karlp> but you know what, just switching my desktop environment to xorg is fine too.
2022-02-17T19:26:18 < BrainDamage> the downsides of sticking with xorg is tearing when moving windows, keyloggers, and some performance loss
2022-02-17T19:26:43 < BrainDamage> the downsides of wayland is that if something isn't accounted beforehand in the design, it won't work at all
2022-02-17T19:27:00 < BrainDamage> so imma stick with xorg
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2022-02-17T19:45:31 < karlp> yeah, I've had enough tilting at windmills on wayland not working shit.
2022-02-17T19:46:07 < Steffanx> Laurenceb found you on the internets: https://www.dumpert.nl/?selectedId=100022794_a23420a3
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2022-02-17T20:07:32 < karlp> hehe, silabs has a "SLC-CLI" tool that is a python blob, includes a requirements.txt file and things....
2022-02-17T20:07:38 < karlp> except they didn't list all their requirements in it...
2022-02-17T20:11:07 < qyx> are you checking silabs waters too?
2022-02-17T20:11:21 < karlp> well, silabs was very close to being chosen earlier,
2022-02-17T20:11:39 < karlp> and if you didnt' see, i got rekt by missing a run level problem with adcs and radios on WB.
2022-02-17T20:11:57 < karlp> wb only has radio in run/stop mode,s and adc only in run/lprun modes.
2022-02-17T20:12:05 < qyx> I am much awaiting the day karlp starts grumping about zephyr
2022-02-17T20:12:15 < karlp> so you _can't_ have any sort of constant adc and have low power
2022-02-17T20:12:23 < karlp> oh, I've already grumbled abotu zephyr a couple of years ago :)
2022-02-17T20:12:36 < qyx> did I miss that?
2022-02-17T20:14:47 < karlp> man, silabs CLI config tool seems totally busted.
2022-02-17T20:16:22 < jpa-> i think i ran into a similar ADC & low power issue with nrf52
2022-02-17T20:16:33 < karlp> ok, works with ython3 -m venv --system-site-packages
2022-02-17T20:16:40 < karlp> doesn't work with out system-site-packages
2022-02-17T20:17:01 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, nrf52 datasheet straight up said, "adc power consumption: 2-3mA" 
2022-02-17T20:17:07 < karlp> so I just threw it out of consideration.
2022-02-17T20:17:36 < karlp> stm32wb I just naiively assumed that if the radio ran in stop modes, it would of course work in "just" lprun/lpsleep modes...
2022-02-17T20:17:56 < qyx> no?
2022-02-17T20:18:19 < qyx> what do you mean, radio works in stop, but not in lprun/lpsleep?
2022-02-17T20:18:25 < karlp> just that...
2022-02-17T20:18:39 < karlp> you _may not_ enter lprun/lpsleep if you want the radio to do anything useful.
2022-02-17T20:18:41 < jpa-> radio is driven by closed binary blob, blob doesn't like lprun
2022-02-17T20:18:42 < karlp> it's an unsupported config.
2022-02-17T20:19:01 < qyx> may I expect WL to be the same?
2022-02-17T20:19:05 < karlp> no idea.
2022-02-17T20:19:08 < karlp> check the datasheet :)
2022-02-17T20:19:13 < qyx> hm but there are actually single core versions of WL
2022-02-17T20:19:17 < karlp> RM sorry, it's in a big table of allowed run modes,
2022-02-17T20:19:23 < karlp> I just missed it, spread across multiple pages
2022-02-17T20:19:44 < qyx> I was about to buy WL nucleo but not spare time for such joys
2022-02-17T20:19:49 < qyx> s/not/no
2022-02-17T20:20:22 < qyx> I also got that pine64 wifi/ble module
2022-02-17T20:20:30 < karlp> heh, generated makefile uses /bin/arm-none-eabi-gcc hardcoded, 
2022-02-17T20:20:36 < karlp> whatevs I can fix that
2022-02-17T20:20:49 < karlp> CC      = "$(ARM_GCC_DIR)/bin/arm-none-eabi-gcc"
2022-02-17T20:20:55 < karlp> thanks for that silabs. clever
2022-02-17T20:24:35 < jpa-> my experience with silabs was mostly positive, though i never ended up finishing the project
2022-02-17T20:24:42 < Xogium> heh speaking of adc… I just realized, rpi boards don't even have adc
2022-02-17T20:24:48 < Xogium> I was like… what the ?
2022-02-17T20:25:18 < Xogium> even stuff like allwinner a10 and a20 have i2c, most arduino too
2022-02-17T20:25:24 < jpa-> the silabs bootloader chain is weird though, i ended up stripping it all away because it failed to boot all the time
2022-02-17T20:25:35 < Xogium> er
2022-02-17T20:25:40 < Xogium> I meant adc not i2c
2022-02-17T20:25:43 < Xogium> sorry, tired
2022-02-17T20:34:30 < srk> tv set-top box chips
2022-02-17T20:35:03 < srk> https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/ mentioned here in What about Raspberry Pi section
2022-02-17T20:35:56 < srk> you can add i2c/spi adc but they are expensive so you can just add mcu if you can buy one
2022-02-17T20:36:39 < Xogium> yeah, expensive as hell
2022-02-17T20:37:17 < Xogium> I found a through-hole chip that would work on breadboard and such, but yep. 10 euros :D
2022-02-17T20:39:34 < BrainDamage> you can get dev boards with single row pin header strips that will just plug into a breadboard
2022-02-17T20:39:52 < srk> with mcu you get additional uarts/spi/i2cs at the cost of having to write firmware and comms protocol for it
2022-02-17T20:40:14 < srk> with like i2c adc you can just add it to the device tree
2022-02-17T20:40:22 < Xogium> yea
2022-02-17T20:40:44 < Xogium> honestly I'd probably not use a rpi if I wanted to do a project that would use adc
2022-02-17T20:42:00 < jpa-> microchip's spi adcs are just 1-2 eur
2022-02-17T20:42:22 < Xogium> jpa-: huh, really ? Through-hole ?
2022-02-17T20:42:51 < jpa-> of course not, but you can buy ready assembled breakouts
2022-02-17T20:43:14 < Xogium> darn must have been unlucky that the first examples of "breadboard friendly" chips I found were from maxim integrated
2022-02-17T20:43:35 < BrainDamage> maxim stuff works, but it's $$$
2022-02-17T20:43:43 < Xogium> indeed
2022-02-17T20:46:04 < Xogium> through-hole isn't made specifically for breadboard, I know that, but most of those chips can work good with a breadboard if you do it right. Far as I know anyway
2022-02-17T20:48:32 < Xogium> the first breadboard I got honestly, I didn't pay much attention to the tech specs of it. But it seems like a pretty decent one, rated at 36v 2a max, and it even has some tape at the back you can peal off the plastic off, to stick the breadboard on a surface
2022-02-17T20:48:43 < Xogium> not as good as a perma proto board but…
2022-02-17T20:51:27 < Xogium> at first I was even afraid I couldn't properly work with one lol. I was like god, 2.54 mm holes, that's tiny, how am I going to count the holes and make sure of where I am ? But then I realized it feels a bit like braille… Just that instead of being raised, its going down, and braille dots are about that pitch too, even tinier if I'm not mistaken
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2022-02-17T21:03:39 < mawk> how much butter do you put in your stamppot Steffanx 
2022-02-17T21:04:10 < mawk> I looked my father do it and he put the whole bar of it
2022-02-17T21:04:13 < mawk> 250g
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2022-02-17T21:46:32 < Steffanx> Stamppot what mawk?
2022-02-17T21:47:30 < Steffanx> There are a lot of stamppots 
2022-02-17T21:49:34 < zyp> is stamppot dutch for stew?
2022-02-17T21:50:03 < zyp> or mashed potatoes?
2022-02-17T21:53:24 < Steffanx> Stew, pretty much
2022-02-17T21:55:47 < mawk> Steffanx: boerenkool
2022-02-17T21:55:51 < mawk> with rookwors
2022-02-17T21:55:52 < mawk> t
2022-02-17T21:56:05 < mawk> et paaataaaat
2022-02-17T21:56:27 < Steffanx> I don't put butter in there, maybe some jus
2022-02-17T21:57:09 < Steffanx> No gehaktbal mawk?
2022-02-17T21:57:14 < Steffanx> And a kuiltje jus
2022-02-17T21:57:54 < mawk> no, next time for gehaktballen
2022-02-17T21:59:03 < Steffanx> Did you freeze the boerenkool for at least a night?
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2022-02-17T22:00:28 < mawk> no, why?
2022-02-17T22:00:45 < Steffanx> They say kale tastes better when it was frozen
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2022-02-17T22:21:53 < kakium69> they say kaki taste better when it was roasted
2022-02-17T22:35:46 < mawk> cat in a corridor: https://i.imgur.com/XAvlysi.jpg
2022-02-17T22:35:50 < mawk> cat on a bench: https://i.imgur.com/LsibdWN.jpg
2022-02-17T22:36:01 < mawk> look at my pussies Steffanx 
2022-02-17T22:38:38 < kakium69> very nice cats
2022-02-17T22:43:06 < Steffanx> Time to get a little closer mawk
2022-02-17T22:43:13 < Steffanx> Pussy closeups are the best 
2022-02-17T22:43:17 < mawk> :(
2022-02-17T22:43:24 < mawk> the first cat was running away
2022-02-17T22:46:56 < Steffanx> still didnt find a proper way to keep your negatives dust free mawk? Still no nose grease for you?
2022-02-17T22:47:12 < mawk> that was dust on the lense Steffanx 
2022-02-17T22:47:14 < mawk> not the negative
2022-02-17T22:47:14 < Steffanx> to fill the statches or wahtever it was for
2022-02-17T22:47:18 < mawk> no nose grease
2022-02-17T22:47:21 < mawk> forbidden
2022-02-17T22:48:08 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/UmPh68q all scratches?
2022-02-17T22:48:46 < mawk> that's on the lense
2022-02-17T22:48:51 < mawk> I'm pretty sure
2022-02-17T22:48:58 < mawk> there wasn't anything on the negative
2022-02-17T22:49:03 < Steffanx> Yes, im pixel peeping your grainy photos :D
2022-02-17T22:49:13 < mawk> :(
2022-02-17T22:49:20 < mawk> it's all yummy grain
2022-02-17T22:49:23 < mawk> ISO 3200 film
2022-02-17T22:49:30 < mawk> it's ilford delta
2022-02-17T22:49:53 < Steffanx> You should get to the beach tomorrow
2022-02-17T22:49:58 < mawk> why
2022-02-17T22:50:00 < Steffanx> another bigger storm is coming
2022-02-17T22:50:04 < mawk> lol
2022-02-17T22:50:14 < mawk> tomorrow I have a meetingz with the other french employee
2022-02-17T22:50:20 < mawk> she does sales in frankrijk
2022-02-17T22:50:32 < mawk> I translated our website just for her
2022-02-17T22:50:38 < mawk> it was mega annoying
2022-02-17T22:50:44 < mawk> 1700 phrases to translate
2022-02-17T22:51:12 < mawk> and she's still not happy so she will give some french feedback about it
2022-02-17T22:51:19 < karlp> there must be close to zero users of the silabs command line processing tools.
2022-02-17T22:51:26 < Steffanx> better check again then all i get is "404 pagina niet gevonden"
2022-02-17T22:51:30 < karlp> it generates errors and has incomplete help and there's not even bug reports :)
2022-02-17T22:51:38 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2022-02-17T22:53:20 < Steffanx> dont even havea dutch website anymore?
2022-02-17T22:55:18 < Steffanx> lol what kind of template did you guys steak mawk? half of think on the bottom dont even work
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2022-02-17T23:03:40 < mawk> it's not that website that I translated Steffanx 
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2022-02-17T23:03:50 < mawk> the one you're one is just a shitty vitrine website
2022-02-17T23:03:57 < mawk> I think I never visited it
2022-02-17T23:04:21 < mawk> 100% of the things you mean lol
2022-02-17T23:04:25 < mawk> except the up arrow
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2022-02-17T23:04:42 < mawk> do you speak french kraiskil 
2022-02-17T23:04:58 < mawk> kraiskil please tell me
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2022-02-17T23:53:09 < karlp> lol simplicitiy commander CLI doesn't understand elfs.
2022-02-17T23:53:18 < karlp> wants hex/s37 or bins with manual addressing
2022-02-17T23:55:52 < karlp> heh, -gdwarf-2, what decade is this silabs?!
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--- Day changed Fri Feb 18 2022
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2022-02-18T00:07:38 < karlp> doesn't run anyway, Iguess there's a bootloder config problem like jpa said, I seem to recall having that issue in the past
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2022-02-18T01:10:38 < kakium6943> new dune was nice
2022-02-18T01:11:13 < kakium6943> ending was 0/5 though
2022-02-18T01:11:28 < kakium6943> new matrix was not that bad
2022-02-18T01:12:35 < Steffanx> It was
2022-02-18T01:12:47 < Steffanx> Fucking love story 
2022-02-18T01:13:50 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1494448697291198475
2022-02-18T01:14:15 < Mangy_Dog> i couldlnt help but be utterly disapointed in the new film
2022-02-18T01:14:35 < Mangy_Dog> i really wanted to like it
2022-02-18T01:14:39 < Mangy_Dog> but it was .... bad
2022-02-18T01:14:45 < Mangy_Dog> soo soo soooooo bad on so many levels
2022-02-18T01:15:15 < Mangy_Dog> weak story and plot, to utterly awful action and set peices
2022-02-18T01:15:21 < Mangy_Dog> pieces
2022-02-18T01:15:42 < Mangy_Dog> none of the style or skill that made the matrix great was in this film
2022-02-18T01:15:42 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2022-02-18T01:16:05 < Mangy_Dog> if the action was cool... rather than genric hollywood fight stuff
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2022-02-18T01:22:51 < kakium6943> Steffanx: tru
2022-02-18T01:30:06 < catphish> morning noobs
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2022-02-18T01:42:30 < kakium6943> morning sire
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2022-02-18T03:34:34 < machinehum> I was too drunk in the movie theatre to understand dune
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2022-02-18T04:05:08 < kakium6943> machinehum: I think it was basically for people who had read the book
2022-02-18T04:05:24 < kakium6943> or read the book and seen the original movie
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2022-02-18T04:28:17 < catphish> i'm doing something fun: http://www.helicopting.de/
2022-02-18T04:28:40 < catphish> this bastardization should allow me to hook up a cheap powerline adapter to a V2G (powerline green phy) network
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2022-02-18T05:14:35 < kakium6943> hmm
2022-02-18T05:15:17 < kakium6943> !!
2022-02-18T05:16:16 < kakium6943> I have couple of those wall bricks
2022-02-18T05:25:23 < catphish> it's handy that the model being hacked is nice and common
2022-02-18T05:25:58 < catphish> i have some other ones that are much more tricky with multiple sandwiched boards, so ordered some of the ones he hacked, hopefully they'll do the job
2022-02-18T05:26:05 < catphish> sleep now :)
2022-02-18T05:29:42 < kakium6943> I bet you can use almost any of those
2022-02-18T05:30:18 < kakium6943> PSU will just separate power and signal
2022-02-18T05:32:00 < kakium6943> remove components, provide DC, hook into CMC with signal line
2022-02-18T05:32:24 < kakium6943> in this case leave that cap and what appears to be a fuse
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2022-02-18T05:39:11 < bitmask> trying to locate a datasheet is siemens still around?
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2022-02-18T08:24:14 < Xogium> what's your opinion on analog devices ? As in, the brand
2022-02-18T08:24:33 < Xogium> I read that a lot of their stuff is crap
2022-02-18T08:26:37 < Xogium> I also notice that a lot of it seems to be even more expensive than maxim integrated :p
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2022-02-18T08:48:24 < jpa-> karlp: i just replaced the linker script with my own, starting the real app at 0 https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/bletalk/blob/master/src/bgm113a256v2_nobtldr.ld
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2022-02-18T11:17:24 < Steffanx> Code red, Code red, mawk.
2022-02-18T11:17:52 < Steffanx> Welcome Laurenceb . How's the storm?
2022-02-18T11:28:05 < karlp> jpa-: which of their bootloader models were you having problems with?
2022-02-18T11:28:15 < karlp> they sell it well, and how long ago were you using it?
2022-02-18T11:28:50 < karlp> 3 years by the look of it.
2022-02-18T11:29:00 < karlp> oh right, and sdk2.x as well.
2022-02-18T11:29:15 < karlp> there seems to have been major changes in 3.x and I'm now on gecko 4.x
2022-02-18T11:29:20  * karlp shrugs, maybe fixed?
2022-02-18T11:29:46 < karlp> which silabs app code was badly licensed?
2022-02-18T11:30:23 < jpa-> back then it was all under some kind of NDA thingy i needed to accept before download
2022-02-18T11:30:51 < jpa-> and it had like 3 bootloaders chained, one in rom, one in some special reprogrammable system area and one at 0x0000
2022-02-18T11:33:27 < karlp> oh, ok, yeah, _most_ of the example code is SPDX: Zlib, but some of it has this weird "only silabs!" MSLA shit license.
2022-02-18T11:34:48 < karlp> whee, C startup files, yay silabs
2022-02-18T11:36:10 < catphish> wow, such storm
2022-02-18T11:36:51 < karlp> yeah, you made the news here :)
2022-02-18T11:37:55 < catphish> of course, like all british "storms", it's just "a bit blowy out"
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2022-02-18T11:38:04 < catphish> but it's certainly more impressie than usual
2022-02-18T11:41:09 < mawk> code red Steffanx 
2022-02-18T11:41:18 < mawk> I didn't receive a code red on my phone Steffanx why is that
2022-02-18T11:41:23 < mawk> does the government want me to die?
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2022-02-18T11:44:14 < ventYl> it took vscode some 90 seconds to make me sad
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2022-02-18T11:48:24  * karlp lols
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2022-02-18T11:52:41 < Xogium> jeez, is that whole bunch of wind in britany a side effect of that storm or what
2022-02-18T11:52:50 < ventYl> is there any less retarded option how to integrate bare gcc/gdb into something which isn't straight awful
2022-02-18T11:52:53 < ventYl> ?
2022-02-18T11:54:18 < benishor> does anybody have a proper usb descriptor for hid keyboards supporting more than 101 keys?
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2022-02-18T11:54:52 < benishor> I'm trying to send F23 key events but not really succeeding. my linux box only sees the F1-F12 range that I send
2022-02-18T11:56:27 < jpa-> ventYl: no, nothing that will satisfy you in 90 seconds
2022-02-18T11:56:56 < ventYl> jpa-: all I want is that it won't make me sad in 90 seconds
2022-02-18T11:58:44 < jpa-> it's hard for a piece of software to be responsible for your emotions
2022-02-18T11:58:58 < jpa-> i'm sometimes sad for months at a time but i still manage to use vscode
2022-02-18T11:59:42 < ventYl> my sadness comes from the fact that bare vim + gdb in console is actually much more usable combination than vscode
2022-02-18T12:00:20 < jpa-> everyone has their own preferences, if you prefer that, why not use it?
2022-02-18T12:00:36 < jpa-> i also use plain gdb instead of graphical debuggers
2022-02-18T12:01:11 < ventYl> well, i am going to have a presentation mostly for high school teachers on ARM debugging. I feel that neovim + gdb could be a bit harsh approach there
2022-02-18T12:01:53 < ventYl> I wanted to avoid Arduino IDE, so my options pretty much boil down to Eclipse, VS Code and who knows what else
2022-02-18T12:02:04 < jpa-> why do you want to avoid arduino?
2022-02-18T12:02:17 < jpa-> it's probably what they would use in a school environment anyway
2022-02-18T12:02:23 < ventYl> I want to have one IDE which can do both native and embedded
2022-02-18T12:02:55 < mawk> ventYl: emacs
2022-02-18T12:03:03 < ventYl> as there was a suggestion to show a comparison of how debugging looks on plain hosted PC binary vs. what is different when you debug remote target
2022-02-18T12:03:07 < mawk> and commandline gdb with tui, it's good enough
2022-02-18T12:03:41 < ventYl> and my aim is to show, that once you set it up, there is really very little of difference, speaking generally
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2022-02-18T12:04:53 < ventYl> aaaand also, I'd like to send a message, that Arduino IDE is not something magical, you *have* to use; that you actually have choice
2022-02-18T12:06:13 < jpa-> for that, showing the distinction between text editor, build system and debugger as separate programs might be useful
2022-02-18T12:06:37 < jpa-> you can pick a more approachable text editor than vim
2022-02-18T12:06:55 < benishor> ventYl: clion
2022-02-18T12:07:05 < ventYl> benishor: hm, will check that
2022-02-18T12:07:10 < benishor> granted you don't do funky stuff
2022-02-18T12:07:23 < benishor> it's good for presentation purposes
2022-02-18T12:07:45 < ventYl> i only want to compile simple binary with bug, step through it, then do the same with binary flashed into rpi pico
2022-02-18T12:08:32 < ventYl> jpa-: my idea was that a text editor with sticker "IDE" (such as vscode) will be accepted better
2022-02-18T12:10:22 < ventYl> uh oh
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2022-02-18T12:18:36 < karlp> benishor: clion's price tag is a problem....
2022-02-18T12:18:46 < karlp> and your own woes the last few weeks haven't been selling it to us :)
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2022-02-18T12:19:52 < mawk> just pretend you're a student karlp 
2022-02-18T12:19:55 < mawk> I got all jetbrains products for free
2022-02-18T12:19:59 < benishor> karlp: well, for simple things it works :)
2022-02-18T12:20:44 < benishor> unless you want size optimized code, you don't get that out of the box, you need to tamper with the cmake
2022-02-18T12:20:55 < karlp> what does size optimized have to do with it?
2022-02-18T12:21:19 < benishor> thing is it doesn't start with a sane default of compiler/linker flags
2022-02-18T12:21:30 < jpa-> what i like most about vscode is that extensions are available for pretty much any programming language
2022-02-18T12:21:32 < benishor> so when you compare the default output to stm32cubeide, you are at loss
2022-02-18T12:21:38 < jpa-> no need to learn new IDE when switching projects
2022-02-18T12:22:39 < benishor> clion (and all jetbrains ides) are much faster than eclipse based crap and have exquisite refactorings and code inspections
2022-02-18T12:22:48 < benishor> it makes working in them a pleasure
2022-02-18T12:23:38 < mawk> stop with the sex talk benishor 
2022-02-18T12:25:14 < benishor> I cannot help it, I'm addicted
2022-02-18T12:25:38 < benishor> hard not to love small things like having a good looking gui *and* being able to change the editor font line height
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2022-02-18T12:27:01 < benishor> ventYl: apparently it's free for classroom assistance: https://www.jetbrains.com/clion/buy/#discounts
2022-02-18T12:37:52 < karlp> hey look, I've been an intellij user since like v5, I love their stuff
2022-02-18T12:38:03 < karlp> I'm just still a bit unhappy with how clion has gone.
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2022-02-18T12:39:29 < benishor> karlp: what exactly do you dislike about it?
2022-02-18T12:39:39 < benishor> I am (on the contrary) happy with how it turns out
2022-02-18T12:39:57 < benishor> I've been paying for the jetbrains toolbox for the last 6 years
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2022-02-18T12:46:01 < karlp> that it 's still so heavily cmake first, and the the way they gdb remote is still so much a second class citizen
2022-02-18T12:46:14 < karlp> I can't keep trying it all the time, sometimes I have to actually work
2022-02-18T12:46:24 < karlp> especially when I have to pay for it.
2022-02-18T12:53:01 < benishor> well, it's much better than it used to be and since my main line of work is not in mcus, I'm pretty happy with it
2022-02-18T12:53:54 < benishor> as for being cmake centered, I like that but that is an acquired taste. lately it started also supporting makefiles
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2022-02-18T13:09:58 < karlp> yeah, if it's ont he desktop, I don't use C, that's a mugs game, so clionbeing great at c++ on desktops isn't really very interesting to me :)
2022-02-18T13:12:13 < benishor> so why isn't it good at c++ on embedde?
2022-02-18T13:12:16 < benishor> embedded?
2022-02-18T13:12:38 < qyx> TIL mug's game
2022-02-18T13:12:44 < benishor> qyx: yeah, me too
2022-02-18T13:12:47 < benishor> not a native english speaker here
2022-02-18T13:13:09 < benishor> I'm using c++ for my mcu projects. I delegate from main.c to an extern "C" function from where I start all my c++ stuff
2022-02-18T13:13:50 < benishor> granted, I'm not sure the complexity of our projects match, as in I'm doing only hobbyist stuff
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2022-02-18T13:50:44 < tkoskine> Clion is kind of clumsy with CMake. I usually use CMake with IAR and it is kind of nightmare to try to configure everything to work from Clion.
2022-02-18T13:50:59 < tkoskine> For example overriding assembler or linker requires some hacks.
2022-02-18T13:52:33 < karlp> yeah, i think their idea of using cmake as the project file was pretty misguided.
2022-02-18T13:52:54 < karlp> they admit that you can't always just use your existing cmakelists
2022-02-18T13:53:21 < karlp> I mean, they don't try and use pom.xml as the project file, why would they try and use an existing external project definition as the idea project file?! 
2022-02-18T13:53:30 < ventYl> that's not what cmake was intended to be
2022-02-18T13:53:35 < karlp> indeed.
2022-02-18T13:53:43 < ventYl> it didn't work well 10 years ago in Kdevelop / Qt Creator
2022-02-18T13:54:08 < karlp> qtcreator at least these days is more like netbeans aiui, understands make/cmake/scons, keeps things on it's own.
2022-02-18T13:55:21 < BrainDamage> it's funny that one of the points cmake was invented for was setup crosscompilation, but it's still kind of painful
2022-02-18T13:55:31 < ventYl> VSCode JSON hell combined with it's rapid development and thus rapid obsolescence of all the howtos is shortcut to hell
2022-02-18T13:55:37 < ventYl> I hate when this happens
2022-02-18T13:56:11 < ventYl> BrainDamage: for me it works nice
2022-02-18T13:56:44 < karlp> I tried drining the cmake koolaid, cant say I really felt like a winner at the end of it.
2022-02-18T13:56:52 < karlp> waslike, ok.... this is better than autohell?
2022-02-18T13:57:17 < BrainDamage> better than autofools is a pretty low bar
2022-02-18T13:58:20 < ventYl> I think that if you aim for universal tool, ending up in complete mess is inevitable
2022-02-18T13:58:57 < ventYl> I like that you can hide ugly procedural stuff aside and pretend that main part is declarative-only
2022-02-18T13:59:00 < ventYl> and it works
2022-02-18T13:59:20 < ventYl> downside is that the procedural part of project is then really really ugly
2022-02-18T14:00:07 < qyx> the same aplies to scons
2022-02-18T14:00:10 < qyx> +p
2022-02-18T14:01:00 < ventYl> maybe it is just scons-based projects which I've seen were completely wrongly written, but my impression was that it is just a bare python script with some salt provided by scons module
2022-02-18T14:01:14 < ventYl> and it is mostly procedural from top all towards the end
2022-02-18T14:05:04 < karlp> BrainDamage: yeah, that's why I was kinda non-plussed by cmake.
2022-02-18T14:06:38 < tkoskine> For me, CMake + Ninja combination (from cli) has worked pretty well. Once you have figured out its quirks, it allows you to do pretty complex stuff.
2022-02-18T14:06:45 < tkoskine> Using CMake I have build cross-platform (Windows + Linux host) with multibootloader + app project with image signing and other gimmicks like more or less transparent support for GCC&IAR compiler families.
2022-02-18T14:06:55 < tkoskine> I also tweaked ctest to run unit tests on IAR's ARM simulator.
2022-02-18T14:07:11 < ventYl> yeah, it is powerful
2022-02-18T14:07:48 < ventYl> I had same code compiling using one more-less innocent cmake build system both using greenhills for embedded and mingw for native
2022-02-18T14:08:13 < ventYl> and one didn't need spare bucket to catch puke to be safe when looking at the stuff
2022-02-18T14:19:18 < karlp> huh, silabs OTA "reliable" is 10 times slower than "fast" 
2022-02-18T14:19:28 < karlp> I wonder how much more reliable it really is.
2022-02-18T14:20:38 < ventYl> 10 times
2022-02-18T14:21:39 < karlp> heh, looked like it was failing, but no, it was phonebrowser not really liking downloading the same file twice :)
2022-02-18T14:22:11 < karlp> it agreed to do it, downloaded http://192.168.88.124:8000/applicaiton.gbl twice, but it didn't _actually_ download it twice, it just saved it twice, as best as I can tell.
2022-02-18T14:22:20 < karlp> (I switched the webserver in the background)
2022-02-18T14:29:51 < karlp> heh, I love this, in the Bluetooth SIG's official "linux and bluetooth guide" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Yi2X8/bluetooth-is-rad.png
2022-02-18T14:32:24 < ventYl> this thing is mess
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2022-02-18T15:02:44 < Laurenceb> anyone know if its possible to run screen within screen on Lunix?
2022-02-18T15:02:59 < Laurenceb> it keeps going weird and goofy every time I try nested screen sessions
2022-02-18T15:03:48 < ventYl> it is
2022-02-18T15:03:55 < ventYl> I've already did that
2022-02-18T15:04:06 < Laurenceb> hmm ok I'll try again
2022-02-18T15:04:26 < ventYl> bindings are then one-A-nested
2022-02-18T15:04:28 < Laurenceb> looked like it bumps me out of the lower screen session 
2022-02-18T15:04:32 < Laurenceb> oh
2022-02-18T15:04:33 < ventYl> like C-A C becomes C-A A C
2022-02-18T15:04:47 < Laurenceb> I dont follow, what is the C and A about?
2022-02-18T15:04:48 < ventYl> or maybe C-A C-A C, IDK
2022-02-18T15:04:56 < ventYl> C-A stands for Ctrl+A
2022-02-18T15:05:09 < ventYl> Ctrl+A, C will kill current screen window
2022-02-18T15:05:19 < ventYl> oh, not kill, create
2022-02-18T15:05:22 < mawk> yes it's possible Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T15:05:29 < mawk> you double the C-a to talk to the inner screen
2022-02-18T15:05:33 < mawk> or you can change the prefix, it's easier
2022-02-18T15:05:37 < mawk> make it C-b for the inner screen
2022-02-18T15:05:43 < mawk> why are you not using tmux though?
2022-02-18T15:05:46 < mawk> screen is so 1990
2022-02-18T15:05:55 < ventYl> so is Laurenceb
2022-02-18T15:06:04 < mawk> lol
2022-02-18T15:06:33 < mawk> instead of ctrl-a you do ctrl-a ctrl-a, to talk to inner screen, Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T15:06:34 < mawk> that's all
2022-02-18T15:08:32 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2022-02-18T15:08:39 < Laurenceb> this is all automated with scripts
2022-02-18T15:09:02 < Laurenceb> the inner screen session is for logging errors from the outer session
2022-02-18T15:09:16 < ventYl> now it starts being wtf
2022-02-18T15:09:34 < Laurenceb> yeah it seems to break when i test it
2022-02-18T15:10:27 < Laurenceb> I know, i'll start the inner screen from the main session
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2022-02-18T15:16:21 < Laurenceb> hmm its as if the output goes to both screen sessions, weird
2022-02-18T15:16:42 < ventYl> why the fuck are you using screen to capture logs?
2022-02-18T15:17:06 < ventYl> will I mail you some nuclear warheads so you can deal with ants once spring comes?
2022-02-18T15:18:04 < Laurenceb> I have to writeable storage
2022-02-18T15:18:07 < Laurenceb> *no
2022-02-18T15:19:44 < mawk> wtf Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T15:19:50 < mawk> why are you using screen for thazt
2022-02-18T15:19:54 < mawk> you are clinically insane
2022-02-18T15:20:06 < mawk> >using nested screen in a script
2022-02-18T15:20:17 < mawk> not even humans use nested screens, and now you put it in a script
2022-02-18T15:20:28 < qyx> to log messages
2022-02-18T15:20:31 < qyx> to LOG
2022-02-18T15:20:32 < Laurenceb> and the sub screen is left attached
2022-02-18T15:20:34 < qyx> without writing
2022-02-18T15:20:40 < mawk> yes of course qyx 
2022-02-18T15:20:42 < mawk> makes sense
2022-02-18T15:20:49 < qyx> totally
2022-02-18T15:21:06 < Steffanx> Lol 
2022-02-18T15:21:23 < qyx> Laurenceb: did you hear about the redirection operator ">" and a tmpfs?
2022-02-18T15:21:29 < qyx> and nohup, tee and friends?
2022-02-18T15:21:34 < ventYl> now I want to hear one that the shit doesn't have any ethernet or goddamn serial you can run remote syslogd over
2022-02-18T15:22:09 < qyx> or yeah, syslog, systemd journal or wtf
2022-02-18T15:22:27 < qyx> even systemd-journal is probably less aids than screen in screen to log
2022-02-18T15:23:13 < mawk> lol
2022-02-18T15:23:17 < Steffanx> Maybe its time for a laurenceb's Lunix adventures blog
2022-02-18T15:24:10 < Laurenceb> ok maybe I could use a fifo then a screen session from a script started at the top level
2022-02-18T15:24:18 < Laurenceb> I didnt design the screen stuff
2022-02-18T15:24:29 < mawk> yes but you have a voice
2022-02-18T15:24:43 < mawk> that you can use to say "I don't want to work on that screen bullshit, let's make a proper logging system"
2022-02-18T15:25:27 < Steffanx> But as a junior engineer your voice is irrelevant mawk
2022-02-18T15:25:40 < mawk> that depends on the company
2022-02-18T15:25:44 < mawk> people listen to me here
2022-02-18T15:25:52 < mawk> especially if it's about linux or networking
2022-02-18T15:28:44 < Laurenceb> ok fifo seems to work
2022-02-18T15:28:56 < Laurenceb> nested screens started from a script def breaks
2022-02-18T15:33:20 < mawk> be careful with fifo
2022-02-18T15:33:26 < mawk> if you start writing before there is a reader it crashes
2022-02-18T15:33:41 < mawk> yes Laurenceb screen needs a tty
2022-02-18T15:33:47 < mawk> unless you start it in background mode
2022-02-18T15:33:49 < mawk> did you do that?
2022-02-18T15:34:10 < qyx> and such software is going to transport people?
2022-02-18T15:34:13 < mawk> lol
2022-02-18T15:34:27 < mawk> Laurenceb is preparing the new Therac-25
2022-02-18T15:34:59 < qyx> muh screen died, give hthem a full throttle
2022-02-18T15:35:06 < mawk> lol
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2022-02-18T15:43:37 < Laurenceb> hmm this isnt realiable
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2022-02-18T15:43:56 < Laurenceb> while loop doing "cat fifo"
2022-02-18T15:44:04 < Laurenceb> then echo "blah" > fifo 
2022-02-18T15:44:09 < Laurenceb> in another terminal
2022-02-18T15:44:23 < Laurenceb> works only ~80% of the time, otherwise the data is lost
2022-02-18T15:45:14 < mawk> I told you Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T15:45:22 < mawk> don't start writing before you have a reader
2022-02-18T15:45:46 < mawk> create the fifo, open it for reading, then start writing stuff
2022-02-18T15:45:53 < mawk> or, you know, use a real log system in tmpfs
2022-02-18T15:46:06 < mawk> log in a regular file in memory
2022-02-18T15:51:07 < BrainDamage> you can try to write, you just won't be able to
2022-02-18T15:51:17 < BrainDamage> it's a design feature, not a defect
2022-02-18T15:51:41 < BrainDamage> if you want to be able to write without a listener, don't use a pipe
2022-02-18T15:54:04 < mawk> well it just fails when you open it for writing yeah
2022-02-18T15:54:16 < mawk> unless it's non-blocking
2022-02-18T15:54:27 < mawk> ah no
2022-02-18T15:54:34 < mawk> it blocks when blocking, and fails when non-blocking
2022-02-18T15:59:31 < Laurenceb> got it to work
2022-02-18T15:59:43 < Laurenceb> exec 3< fifotst
2022-02-18T16:00:01 < mawk> what
2022-02-18T16:00:04 < Laurenceb> if read -r -u line; then
2022-02-18T16:00:07 < mawk> are you listening to what we wrote Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T16:00:08 < Laurenceb> echo $line
2022-02-18T16:00:08 < Laurenceb> etc
2022-02-18T16:00:14 < Laurenceb> shrug it works now
2022-02-18T16:00:20 < mawk> yes you open the fifo for reading
2022-02-18T16:00:25 < mawk> so you can write early
2022-02-18T16:00:31 < mawk> but the data you write early will be lost if no-one reads it
2022-02-18T16:00:36 < Laurenceb> sure
2022-02-18T16:00:49 < mawk> open the fifo read-write from the beggining
2022-02-18T16:00:49 < mawk> it's easier
2022-02-18T16:01:08 < mawk> mkfifo /dick; exec 1<>/dick 2>&1
2022-02-18T16:01:13 < mawk> then stdout/stderr is redirected to the fifo
2022-02-18T16:01:17 < mawk> and you can directly write to it
2022-02-18T16:01:28 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-18T16:04:29 < Laurenceb> loooll millenium dome just got trashed
2022-02-18T16:04:42 < mawk> where is that
2022-02-18T16:04:46 < mawk> in london?
2022-02-18T16:06:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-18T16:06:44 < HelloShitty> Hello
2022-02-18T16:07:00 < qyx> ohai
2022-02-18T16:07:12 < HelloShitty> Anyone knows how to create a breakpoint in gdb, if the code is not actually where I need it to be?
2022-02-18T16:07:18 < HelloShitty> I'll try to explain better
2022-02-18T16:08:15 < HelloShitty> I am running a code, and the code eventuallt jumps to other files and it hangs there. So, I need to create a breakpoint at the beginning of the code (main() function) so that I can step through it and try to see why it is hanging
2022-02-18T16:08:28 < HelloShitty> but if I create a breakpoint with: b 104
2022-02-18T16:08:53 < HelloShitty> it will create the breakpoint where the code is hanging and not at my main() function source file
2022-02-18T16:09:47 < HelloShitty> In this case, if I do: b 104, it will create a breakpoint in a file called rcc.c and I want the breakpoint in line 104 in my main() functio source file, not it rcc.c
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2022-02-18T16:12:55 < jpa-> HelloShitty: maybe "b main" or "b main.c:104"
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2022-02-18T16:32:54 < ventYl> 6 hours later I managed to build hello world using arm-none-eabi-gcc from within CMake
2022-02-18T16:33:03 < ventYl> inside VSCode
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2022-02-18T16:54:46 < HelloShitty> jpa-: ok, will try
2022-02-18T16:55:16 < HelloShitty> I just reloaded the code and before running it, the code is at main() so I set the breakpoint that this point
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2022-02-18T18:13:46 < qyx> so fellow stm32ers, anyone tried the new stm32 called esp32-c3?
2022-02-18T18:14:01 < qyx> iirc zyp tried something..?
2022-02-18T18:14:37 < Steffanx> englishman:  
2022-02-18T18:14:48 < Steffanx> Farewell mawk  
2022-02-18T18:15:20 < englishman> that's the riscV one?
2022-02-18T18:16:29 < qyx> yes
2022-02-18T18:16:50 < qyx> reading this https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/esp32c3/get-started/index.html
2022-02-18T18:16:55 < qyx> it looks like the tooling is the same
2022-02-18T18:25:04 < qyx> https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/b66cc63c413a3b012f8cce9213dcb7ca281501d2/examples/peripherals/twai/twai_network/twai_network_slave/main/twai_network_example_slave_main.c
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2022-02-18T18:25:07 < qyx> very ez
2022-02-18T18:25:28 < qyx> freertos support out of box, batteries included
2022-02-18T18:25:30 < qyx> no cubes
2022-02-18T18:25:39 < qyx> I like it so far
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2022-02-18T18:32:17 < mawk> the government sent an alert: https://i.imgur.com/MC1SYF6.png
2022-02-18T18:32:20 < mawk> isn't it cool?
2022-02-18T18:32:40 < mawk> died jou reciev itt Steffanx ?
2022-02-18T18:34:20 < qyx> It is recommended
2022-02-18T18:34:20 < qyx> to add a 0.1 µF filter capacitor between pins and ground when using the ADC function.
2022-02-18T18:34:23 < qyx> A
2022-02-18T18:34:26 < qyx> Please note that ADC2 is not factory-calibrated. We recommend using ADC1.
2022-02-18T18:34:27 < mawk> a
2022-02-18T18:34:32 < qyx> ok we are at the ardweeno level
2022-02-18T18:34:34 < mawk> lol
2022-02-18T18:35:27 < qyx> Currently, the ESP32-C3 family firmware only supports 40 MHz crystal.
2022-02-18T18:36:58 < mawk> nice
2022-02-18T18:37:13 < mawk> they hardcoded shit on the silicon
2022-02-18T18:37:24 < mawk> in the verilog
2022-02-18T18:40:46 < benishor> Live long, and may the force be with you, Harry. -- Saruman
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2022-02-18T18:56:54 < Steffanx> Yes, I did mawk
2022-02-18T19:04:48 < mawk> lies benishor 
2022-02-18T19:06:39 < Steffanx> Lol benishor  
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2022-02-18T19:56:47 < Laurenceb> hmf
2022-02-18T19:56:56 < Laurenceb> I cant make bash reads from named pipes block
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2022-02-18T20:21:11 < mawk> what Laurenceb 
2022-02-18T20:21:13 < mawk> show your code
2022-02-18T20:21:30 < mawk> the wind almost threw me to the floor Steffanx 
2022-02-18T20:21:34 < mawk> I held to a lamppost
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2022-02-18T20:34:31 < Xogium> er… ok it seems like supercaps was a bad idea after all
2022-02-18T20:35:09 < Xogium> takes eons to charge for one and 2 makes psu get real host real fast
2022-02-18T20:35:16 < Xogium> *real hot, even
2022-02-18T20:36:32 < Xogium> like not burning hot but noticeably hot
2022-02-18T20:37:21 < Xogium> I was told that can be cause by the psu considering the supercap as a short until it is fully charged
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2022-02-18T21:09:11 < mawk> where did you put the supercap Xogium 
2022-02-18T21:09:22 < mawk> yes almost a short Xogium 
2022-02-18T21:09:30 < mawk> you can put a 1Ω resistor if you want
2022-02-18T21:11:49 < qyx> *if you want to bake your finger
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2022-02-18T21:14:10 < Xogium> mawk: I connected it to the board using the vbat battery connector st provides
2022-02-18T21:17:58 < Laurenceb> mawk: https://pastebin.com/SxjG3JuF
2022-02-18T21:22:30 < Steffanx> Lol mawk. You were warned
2022-02-18T21:24:34 < Xogium> looks like there are 2 resistors on the SoC for charging… You choose which one to use based on… cpu register ? Wait what
2022-02-18T21:24:40 < Xogium> 1k and 5k resistors
2022-02-18T21:26:14 < Xogium> I might just… Y'know use an external resistor for that
2022-02-18T21:26:43 < Xogium> those give like… 3mA I think. Would take a while to charge up my cap and no wonder
2022-02-18T21:28:37 < Xogium> so then, why is my psu doing that…
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2022-02-18T21:36:28 < mawk> I don't think it charges directly through these Xogium 
2022-02-18T21:36:35 < mawk> it's probably just to program the charger
2022-02-18T21:36:48 < Xogium> hrm possible
2022-02-18T21:36:57 < mawk> you don't charge supercqps through a 1kΩ resistor
2022-02-18T21:37:16 < qyx> no?
2022-02-18T21:37:38 < mawk> you can do it if you want
2022-02-18T21:37:44 < mawk> if you insist
2022-02-18T21:37:58 < Xogium> wel lthese are 1k and 5k not 1 or 5 ohm
2022-02-18T21:38:02 < Xogium> but… yeah
2022-02-18T21:38:11 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wGGBt/Screenshot_2022-02-18_20-37-59.png
2022-02-18T21:38:36 < mawk> oh no what did you do qyx 
2022-02-18T21:38:39 < mawk> that's illegal
2022-02-18T21:38:59 < mawk> is 0.022F a supercap?
2022-02-18T21:39:14 < qyx> yes a small one
2022-02-18T21:39:19 < Xogium> tiny
2022-02-18T21:39:25 < qyx> also wrong sch, it is 2.8V
2022-02-18T21:39:27 < Xogium> this one's much bigger
2022-02-18T21:39:28 < Xogium> 10f
2022-02-18T21:39:30 < qyx> so I just put a 2V7 zener there
2022-02-18T21:39:32 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-18T21:39:39 < qyx> to not overcharge it
2022-02-18T21:39:52 < Xogium> I ran away screaming when I saw adafruit single one single supercap of… 700f
2022-02-18T21:40:37 < qyx> oh it is really a 5V5 one
2022-02-18T21:40:43 < qyx> idk why did I do it that way
2022-02-18T21:40:50 < mawk> so in your little thing τ = 22s
2022-02-18T21:41:11 < mawk> maybe 2V8 wasn't in stock
2022-02-18T21:41:21 < mawk> one minute to charge to 95%
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2022-02-18T22:21:40 < kakium69> evenings
2022-02-18T22:23:33 < karlp> wow, bluetooth is rad.  get a connection error, dbus loses it's mind until I unplug/replug teh adapter.
2022-02-18T22:24:12 < karlp> and if I thought "reliable" mode on android was slow, this tool/demo from silabs is even slower, https://github.com/SiliconLabs/host_utilities/tree/feature/bluetooth_ota_python_bleak/bluetooth_ota_python_bleak
2022-02-18T22:24:28 < karlp> still, glad they provided it, it's simpler than having to hack it up myself, though I thinkk i sitll will.
2022-02-18T22:30:16 < qyx> what does it mean being slow?
2022-02-18T22:30:39 < qyx> do I get it right you are trying to update your device from PC or android?
2022-02-18T22:30:49 < qyx> and it takes too long to upload the new firmware?
2022-02-18T22:33:51 < karlp> well, mostly just trying to use desktop software instead of the android apps
2022-02-18T22:34:09 < karlp> the android apps work well, but a) gotta get the files there, and b) sooner or later, gotta work it out from linux
2022-02-18T22:34:41 < karlp> andman, dbus/bluez is wild.... soooo flaky, caching things, not expectingthings to hcange names, permissions problems...
2022-02-18T22:34:43 < qyx> how long does it take?
2022-02-18T22:34:56 < karlp> oh, on android, it was reasonably fast.
2022-02-18T22:35:08 < karlp> but it was ~minute or two on linux, the one time I've had it working so far.
2022-02-18T22:35:12 < karlp> bleak.exc.BleakDBusError: [org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply] Remote peer disconnected
2022-02-18T22:35:15 < karlp> bleak.exc.BleakDBusError: [org.bluez.Error.Failed] Operation failed with ATT error: 0x0e (Connection Rejected Due To Security Reasons)
2022-02-18T22:35:22 < karlp> Imean, that sort of shit is just "wat" ?
2022-02-18T22:35:36 < qyx> a minune or two is okay I would say
2022-02-18T22:35:52 < karlp> dbus is "correct" so that it can be shared, but man, the price seems really high vs using raw hci and having predictable behaviour
2022-02-18T22:36:01 < karlp> at the expense of having to completely own it.
2022-02-18T22:36:06 < karlp> oh, it's like 10 seconds on android
2022-02-18T22:37:24 < karlp> 350ish kbpss it says, 
2022-02-18T22:38:33 < karlp> and using the bluetooth sig software, which "correctly" polls dbus for both known and new devices, after ~any error, it just pretends nothing's wrong, but won't ever show me any scan results again.
2022-02-18T22:38:45 < karlp> unplug/replug the bluetooth dongle => works again :)
2022-02-18T22:39:14 < karlp> I'm starting to feel like not having a power switch on vbus to my module was a horrrrrible idea :)
2022-02-18T22:40:40 < karlp> it's ok, at least this is _progress_ vs blender and mechanical design :)
2022-02-18T22:42:36 < qyx> meh, I am grumpy all day because nothing works as expected
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2022-02-18T22:56:00 < HelloShitty> Hi. I have here an stm32f101rft6 chip but this guy hace 2 circles in opposite corners of the surface. How do I make sure which one marks pin 1?
2022-02-18T22:57:28 < karlp> lol, hello f1 problems
2022-02-18T22:57:37 < karlp> you can check the datasheet packaging information
2022-02-18T22:59:42 < HelloShitty> ok, let me give that a try
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2022-02-18T23:03:00 < karlp> qyx: ok, got timing in my linux one, and got it to work again, android: ~45kBps, linux: ~1kBps
2022-02-18T23:03:15 < karlp> that's, IMO, unreasonably slower.
2022-02-18T23:07:38 < qyx> imotoo
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2022-02-18T23:08:01 < karlp> ok, bluetoothctl power off; power on works instead of unplugging replugging, that's good to know at least :)
2022-02-18T23:08:30 < karlp> there's some device here called "Bluetooth RCU demo" and it's not mine :)
2022-02-18T23:11:38 < zyp> hah
2022-02-18T23:17:04 < karlp> I don't think bleak/bluez likes the device rebooting? into the apploader 
2022-02-18T23:18:09 < karlp> Feb 18 21:18:06 beros kernel: Bluetooth: hci0: link tx timeout
2022-02-18T23:18:11 < karlp> wheee, 
2022-02-18T23:20:46 < karlp> ok, this "security" thing seems to be when ti reboots into the bootloader, or when we try and write to a char that doesn't exist (yet) as it's not finished booting into the bootloader...
2022-02-18T23:20:52 < karlp> this is starting to come together
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2022-02-18T23:22:16 < karlp> ok, nearly doubled the speed by getting rid of a fixed delay and using reliable writes...
2022-02-18T23:28:25 < karlp> ok, up to 4kBps, only 10 times slower now, instead of 44 times slower :)
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2022-02-19T01:50:37 < Mangy_Dog> SOOOoooooooo
2022-02-19T01:50:54 < Mangy_Dog> Can an H7 or F4 work as an audio player?
2022-02-19T01:50:59 < Mangy_Dog> a high quality audio player?
2022-02-19T01:51:47 < zyp> define audio player
2022-02-19T01:52:46 < Mangy_Dog> for playing back MP3s flacs with a 16 or 24bit DAC output?
2022-02-19T01:53:31 < Mangy_Dog> im trying to do some basic brain concepting for a audio player
2022-02-19T01:54:30 < zyp> F4 has I2S support, and the newer families also have a SAI peripheral that can talk more digital audio formats
2022-02-19T01:54:47 < zyp> you'll want an external DAC chip hooked up to either of those
2022-02-19T01:54:51 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-02-19T01:56:07 < zyp> i.e. hardware wise it's all about the DAC chip, mcu just feeds it a digital data stream
2022-02-19T01:56:35 < Mangy_Dog> so all the audio quality is in the DAC... thats easy enough to spec for
2022-02-19T01:56:53 < zyp> software wise, it's a matter of decoding performance, but I would expect a modern mcu to be fast enough
2022-02-19T01:56:54 < Mangy_Dog> I know the teensy mcus can do it, but theyre harder to find than stm32s
2022-02-19T01:56:59 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2022-02-19T01:57:37 < Mangy_Dog> but is there dedicated decoders that would be better to use?
2022-02-19T01:57:46 < zyp> also, this would be really easy to prototype since a bunch (most?) of the discovery boards for the highend parts come with audio DACs
2022-02-19T01:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2022-02-19T01:58:07 < zyp> I can't say, I don't have any experience with that
2022-02-19T01:58:21 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-02-19T01:58:43 < Mangy_Dog> Anyway i might have mentioend it before... But i have in the back of my mind a physical winamp playwer
2022-02-19T01:58:43 < zyp> I would expect that the example projects for said discovery boards include audio decoder examples, so I suggest having a look at what already exists
2022-02-19T01:58:59 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-02-19T01:59:09 < Mangy_Dog> i doubt i could write my own decoder from the ground up
2022-02-19T02:02:11 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/data_brief/x-cube-audio.pdf
2022-02-19T02:03:44 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
2022-02-19T02:04:18 < qyx> you can glue some libs together
2022-02-19T02:04:36 < qyx> I have used opus, speexs and codec2
2022-02-19T02:05:00 < qyx> opus can decode i like 30 MHz or so and 50K of SRAM iirc
2022-02-19T02:05:05 < qyx> but it was long ago
2022-02-19T02:05:29 < qyx> there is helix mp3 decoder many people used in the past
2022-02-19T02:06:08 < Mangy_Dog> can f4 get expandable ram?
2022-02-19T02:06:27 < qyx> depends
2022-02-19T02:06:35 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-19T02:06:41 < zyp> yes
2022-02-19T02:06:54 < zyp> but varies between variants
2022-02-19T02:06:58 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-19T02:07:12 < qyx> some don't havbe external memory controller
2022-02-19T02:07:26 < zyp> some have FSMC, some have FMC
2022-02-19T02:07:34 < Mangy_Dog> is it the SDRAM I/F tick in the F4 table?
2022-02-19T02:07:43 < zyp> that's FMC
2022-02-19T02:08:04 < zyp> f427 is effectively a f407 plus dram controller
2022-02-19T02:08:07 < Mangy_Dog> i must ask whats FMC?
2022-02-19T02:08:17 < Mangy_Dog> fsmc too
2022-02-19T02:08:18 < zyp> FSMC plus dram controller
2022-02-19T02:08:29 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2022-02-19T02:08:30 < qyx> lol rexursive zyp
2022-02-19T02:08:41 < zyp> they are both external memory controllers, FSMC only does sram, FMC does both sram and dram
2022-02-19T02:08:49 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2022-02-19T02:08:56 < qyx> flexible static memory controller
2022-02-19T02:09:02 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2022-02-19T02:09:07 < qyx> the second one omits static
2022-02-19T02:09:42 < zyp> that said, if I were designing something that needed more ram, I'd strongly consider getting one of the newer parts with OCTOSPI support, because that can use hyperram
2022-02-19T02:10:36 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2022-02-19T02:11:02 < zyp> hyperram gives you 8MB ram or so with an interface only requiring 11 signals or so
2022-02-19T02:11:16 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2022-02-19T02:11:17 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2022-02-19T02:12:10 < zyp> should be less hassle than wiring a traditional sram or dram to the FMC
2022-02-19T02:13:11 < qyx> but prepare yourself for bga
2022-02-19T02:13:19 < Mangy_Dog> damn
2022-02-19T02:13:20 < zyp> yeah, it comes in bga24
2022-02-19T02:13:25 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2022-02-19T02:13:34 < zyp> it's nice and easy 1mm pitch, so no big deal
2022-02-19T02:13:48 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2022-02-19T02:15:04 < zyp> I pulled one off by accident when soldering next to it, reballed it and put it back on, and still worked at first try, even though that was my first time hotairing bga, so I have to say it's easy to work with :p
2022-02-19T02:15:23 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2022-02-19T02:15:34 < Mangy_Dog> im not sure ive done a bga before or not
2022-02-19T02:15:42 < qyx> oh fuck the mordor has lit
2022-02-19T02:15:43 < Mangy_Dog> i do know my current stock of solder is crap though
2022-02-19T02:15:56 < qyx> such shine
2022-02-19T02:15:57 < zyp> I've only oven reflowed bga before
2022-02-19T02:17:01 < qyx> (an oil refinery burner on the horizon in the distance)
2022-02-19T02:17:32 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2022-02-19T02:17:35 < qyx> reminds me I need to finish my preheater
2022-02-19T02:18:10 < qyx> I have pid controller and some power resistors, a solid piece of metal is still missing
2022-02-19T02:18:21 < zyp> just buy a mhp30, aren't the shit you design so small you can fit the entire board on it anyway? :p
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2022-02-19T02:19:12 < qyx> I want to make some use of that crap
2022-02-19T02:19:29 < Mangy_Dog> HOLY FUCKING CUNT BUBBLES BATMAN https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003909177085.html the scalping prices on that
2022-02-19T02:20:31 < qyx> h7 is in stock now
2022-02-19T02:20:37 < qyx> for a reasonable price
2022-02-19T02:20:38 < Mangy_Dog> where?
2022-02-19T02:20:43 < zyp> I got a full tray of h730 lying around somewhere
2022-02-19T02:20:47 < Mangy_Dog> i just want to see what kind of prices it goes for
2022-02-19T02:20:49 < qyx> mouser, one or two models only
2022-02-19T02:21:03 < qyx> 10-15e
2022-02-19T02:21:15 < qyx> h730 is even less
2022-02-19T02:21:20 < qyx> zyp: hmmm
2022-02-19T02:21:31 < qyx> what for?
2022-02-19T02:21:43 < Mangy_Dog> ahhh only 128kb flash
2022-02-19T02:22:02 < Mangy_Dog> on that chip
2022-02-19T02:22:05 < zyp> sorry, typo, that was f730
2022-02-19T02:22:19 < qyx> yes h730 is the access line designed to run from external quad/octo spi flash
2022-02-19T02:22:31 < zyp> but I think I have a standing offer for a tray of h7s as well
2022-02-19T02:22:39 < zyp> unless that expired :)
2022-02-19T02:22:44 < Mangy_Dog> oh you can have external program flash?#
2022-02-19T02:23:00 < zyp> yeah, on cortex-m7 that's feasible since it got cache
2022-02-19T02:23:20 < qyx> yes, quadspi is memory mappable and the penalty is not even a percent or two
2022-02-19T02:23:44 < zyp> you can technically execute from external memories on good old f4 as well, but the penalty is worse
2022-02-19T02:23:54 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-19T02:24:05 < Mangy_Dog> well external flash would be good
2022-02-19T02:24:11 < Mangy_Dog> means i can store graphic assets in code
2022-02-19T02:24:57 < Mangy_Dog> id ask how does it work but i expect it really isnt going to be as simple as flashing the mcu through an stlink
2022-02-19T02:24:57 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2022-02-19T02:25:04 < qyx> I must say I like your trays zyp
2022-02-19T02:25:21 < qyx> yes it is
2022-02-19T02:25:34 < qyx> external quadspi can be flashed using the debugger
2022-02-19T02:25:39 < zyp> qyx, they are for trace example boards to be sold with orbtrace
2022-02-19T02:25:59 < Mangy_Dog> "would be a shame if a try just went missing" :p
2022-02-19T02:26:01 < qyx> openocd needs some little help, segger could do it out of box
2022-02-19T02:26:07 < zyp> since there's not a whole lot of cheap boards with trace brought out
2022-02-19T02:26:18 < qyx> :(
2022-02-19T02:26:45 < Mangy_Dog> wait?
2022-02-19T02:26:55 < Mangy_Dog> stilnk would just offload the program into the external flash?
2022-02-19T02:27:04 < Mangy_Dog> as if it was offloading into the mcu flash?
2022-02-19T02:27:11 < qyx> yes it can
2022-02-19T02:27:12 < zyp> yes
2022-02-19T02:27:18 < Mangy_Dog> or is it like just sending to a different flash address?
2022-02-19T02:27:22 < zyp> stlink doesn't care, it's just a debugger bridge
2022-02-19T02:27:50 < zyp> how to write flash is all software, and as long as the software (i.e. openocd) is told about the external flash, it can write it
2022-02-19T02:27:51 < Mangy_Dog> well i mean the tools im used to using either stlink util or aghh what ever that thing is called when i upload in sloeber
2022-02-19T02:27:58 < qyx> your flashing tool uploads a little stub to communicate with the external flash
2022-02-19T02:28:23 < Mangy_Dog> ok so kinda like a boot loader goes into internal flash that basically says... RUN THIS FLASH OVER HERE?
2022-02-19T02:28:31 < zyp> nope
2022-02-19T02:28:34 < zyp> goes into ram
2022-02-19T02:28:41 < zyp> same happens when you write internal flash
2022-02-19T02:29:40 < zyp> also, the stub part is just an optimization
2022-02-19T02:30:36 < Mangy_Dog> what type of flash does this need?
2022-02-19T02:30:47 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming more than the typical ws25 stuff
2022-02-19T02:30:54 < zyp> qspi nor
2022-02-19T02:31:08 < zyp> ws25? or w25?
2022-02-19T02:31:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-19T02:31:20 < Mangy_Dog> W25 sorry
2022-02-19T02:31:28 < Mangy_Dog> i think
2022-02-19T02:31:34 < zyp> yeah, that's winbond's qspi nor line, it'll do nicely
2022-02-19T02:31:48 < Mangy_Dog> oh that cheap stuff is fast enough?
2022-02-19T02:32:15 < zyp> fast enough for what? that's up to you to decide
2022-02-19T02:32:25 < Mangy_Dog> to run a program from
2022-02-19T02:33:00 < zyp> looking at w25q128jv datasheet, it runs up to 133MHz
2022-02-19T02:33:19 < qyx> isn't the 1V8 version even faster?
2022-02-19T02:33:27 < zyp> maybe
2022-02-19T02:33:30 < qyx> but you'll be limited by stm32
2022-02-19T02:33:35 < qyx> there is also a dual-qspi mode
2022-02-19T02:33:50 < qyx> using two flash chips side by side, 8 bit bus
2022-02-19T02:33:54 < zyp> yeah, aren't the mcu io buffers limited to like 100 MHz?
2022-02-19T02:34:00 < qyx> 104 iirc
2022-02-19T02:34:14 < qyx> idk actually
2022-02-19T02:34:30 < Mangy_Dog> Soooooo how much slower would it be to run the program from this than internal flash?
2022-02-19T02:34:35 < Mangy_Dog> im a bit confused
2022-02-19T02:34:52 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, there's no lower limit of how fast a flash need to be to run a program, your program would just run slower when the flash can't keep up
2022-02-19T02:35:04 < zyp> anyway, keyword is cache
2022-02-19T02:35:17 < zyp> you know what a cache is and how it works?
2022-02-19T02:35:45 < Mangy_Dog> its the memory thats directly tied on the dies processor holding the bytes being worked on
2022-02-19T02:36:39 < Mangy_Dog> how it works in relation to the program storage im not so sure on
2022-02-19T02:36:47 < Mangy_Dog> or the flow it pulls the program
2022-02-19T02:37:01 < zyp> a cache is fast temporary storage
2022-02-19T02:37:56 < zyp> when you're fetching memory (e.g. code to run), and there's a copy in the cache memory, you can just grab that rather than wait to fetch it from slower flash
2022-02-19T02:38:23 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2022-02-19T02:39:23 < zyp> which means that if you have a loop that does a thousand iterations, you can run it those thousand times but only take the penalty of fetching it from slow flash once
2022-02-19T02:39:35 < Mangy_Dog> right
2022-02-19T02:40:55 < zyp> this also makes it impossible to tell how much a slower flash will slow down your performance, since it depends a lot on the access pattern of your software
2022-02-19T02:41:08 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-02-19T02:41:20 < Mangy_Dog> but would it be... humanly noticable?
2022-02-19T02:41:38 < qyx> no
2022-02-19T02:41:38 < Mangy_Dog> is 100mhz still pretty damn fast?
2022-02-19T02:42:13 < zyp> if it spends most of the time executing from cache, you won't notice much, but if you're doing a lot of different stuff it can matter
2022-02-19T02:42:50 < Mangy_Dog> well, audio decoding off storage.... so reading and streaming data.... as well as running various audio effects and EQ...
2022-02-19T02:43:08 < Mangy_Dog> and then theres the visualisation graphs and ui stuff
2022-02-19T02:43:31 < qyx> on h7 you have a plenty of SRAM
2022-02-19T02:43:38 < zyp> depends how big your batches are, I figure
2022-02-19T02:43:44 < qyx> those flash-less versions have 1MB and more
2022-02-19T02:43:54 < qyx> so you can copy critical routines to SRAM
2022-02-19T02:43:55 < zyp> but anyway, you'll probably want to keep the executable code in internal flash anywa
2022-02-19T02:44:05 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-02-19T02:44:22 < Mangy_Dog> i very much doubt i can keep it inside 64kb
2022-02-19T02:44:45 < zyp> did you decide on a chip with only 64k internal flash? I missed that part
2022-02-19T02:45:04 < Mangy_Dog> you mentioned the f730
2022-02-19T02:45:08 < Mangy_Dog> i was looking at that
2022-02-19T02:45:14 < Mangy_Dog> ive not settled on anything just concepting
2022-02-19T02:45:17 < qyx> oh there are chips with 2MB
2022-02-19T02:45:23 < zyp> yeah
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2022-02-19T02:46:41 < Mangy_Dog> the f730 is 64kb
2022-02-19T02:46:46 < Mangy_Dog> flash
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2022-02-19T02:49:31 < Mangy_Dog> h730 has 128kb ram
2022-02-19T02:49:39 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2022-02-19T02:49:40 < Mangy_Dog> flash
2022-02-19T02:52:12 < Mangy_Dog> but its insainly OTT for IO :D
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2022-02-19T03:09:01 < qyx> nah I should start a python job tomorrow
2022-02-19T03:09:35 < qyx> I haven't done anything serious in python since 2015
2022-02-19T03:09:55 < Mangy_Dog> ive never done python at all
2022-02-19T03:10:54 < Mangy_Dog> anyway i really shoudl go to bed now
2022-02-19T03:10:55 < Mangy_Dog> gone 1
2022-02-19T03:15:36 < qyx> gn
2022-02-19T03:15:57 < Mangy_Dog> nn:)
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2022-02-19T14:04:24 < mawk> my roof lost a ton of tiles Steffanx 
2022-02-19T14:04:32 < mawk> did you take them?
2022-02-19T14:09:25 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChmUC0OysoU
2022-02-19T14:09:40 < Steffanx> Hah, mawk. 😆
2022-02-19T14:10:07 < Steffanx> And that's exactly what I heard BrainDamage  
2022-02-19T14:17:05 < Steffanx> Good luck finding them mawk
2022-02-19T14:18:11 < mawk> :(
2022-02-19T14:19:01 < mawk> notre maison brûle, et nous regardons ailleurs
2022-02-19T14:19:15 < mawk> our house is on fire, and we're looking the other way
2022-02-19T14:19:43 < mawk> quote of Jacques Chirac, beloved alcoholic groper french camembert-eating president
2022-02-19T14:20:19 < mawk> Jacques inspired his wife Bernadette to declare "old age is like a sinking ship"
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2022-02-19T14:59:02 < Steffanx> So did you call the house owner yet, mawk?
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2022-02-19T15:35:03 < kakium69> BrainDamage: I didn't remember this song existed :o
2022-02-19T15:35:18 < kakium69> you big BHG fan?
2022-02-19T15:37:45 < Steffanx> Arent we all, kakium69? 
2022-02-19T15:37:55 < kakium69> indeed
2022-02-19T15:38:06 < mawk>  he already fixed it Steffanx 
2022-02-19T15:39:20 < BrainDamage> kakium69: nope, it was just a famous song and I have a stupidly good memory for songs
2022-02-19T15:39:49 < kakium69> songs from the era
2022-02-19T15:39:50 < Steffanx> Are you also one of those persons that knows ALL lyrics ?
2022-02-19T15:40:04 < kakium69> from the good times?
2022-02-19T15:40:09 < Steffanx> i wonder if there is a single song i know the entire lyrics of.
2022-02-19T15:40:34 < Steffanx> except for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hswHOEQfj8
2022-02-19T15:46:36 < Laurenceb> WW3 tomorrow
2022-02-19T15:46:54 < Laurenceb> based Putin btfo's west hopefully
2022-02-19T15:47:54 < kakium69> hasn't it been WW3 tommorow for like a month already
2022-02-19T15:48:01 < kakium69> WW3 next week trust me bro
2022-02-19T15:48:14 < Laurenceb> cleansing nuclear fire
2022-02-19T15:48:56 < mawk> the russians are dancing around the invasion, which makes the US claim the invasion is tomorrow everyday
2022-02-19T15:49:08 < mawk> and when everyone is tired of Biden crying wolf, they will invade
2022-02-19T15:49:28 < kakium69> I have inside source bro they are polishing their nuclear warheads right now
2022-02-19T15:49:32 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T15:49:41 < mawk> with chamois clothes
2022-02-19T15:49:43 < qyx> inb4 russians lose ice hockey tomorrow and invade
2022-02-19T15:49:47 < mawk> better have the nuke shining 
2022-02-19T15:49:51 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T15:50:02 < Laurenceb> supposedly they invade immediately after the Olympic closing ceremony 
2022-02-19T15:50:05 < Laurenceb> lulzy if true
2022-02-19T15:50:07 < kakium69> qyx: that is actually possible
2022-02-19T15:50:19 < qyx> kakium69: it happened when they acquired crimea
2022-02-19T15:50:43 < kakium69> who are they playing against?
2022-02-19T15:50:48 < mawk> lol acquired
2022-02-19T15:51:05 < mawk> they made the fortuitous acquisition of Crimea 
2022-02-19T15:51:16 < qyx> kakium69: you
2022-02-19T15:51:55 < BrainDamage> naahh, they just exerted the autodetermination principle of a country where when most people inside it declare to be autonomous / part of x, it changes its borders
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2022-02-19T15:52:07 < BrainDamage> nvm that they did it after invading
2022-02-19T15:52:10 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T15:52:31 < BrainDamage> 100% legit
2022-02-19T15:52:32 < kakium69> qyx: damn
2022-02-19T15:53:01 < BrainDamage> tangentially related: fuck google
2022-02-19T15:53:10 < BrainDamage> they made a fucking buildsystem in java
2022-02-19T15:53:11 < mawk> what did they do
2022-02-19T15:53:14 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T15:53:22 < kakium69> qyx: I was about to say whoever plays against russia should just take a fall
2022-02-19T15:53:23 < mawk> sure
2022-02-19T15:53:44 < kakium69> but funland must win ice hockey
2022-02-19T15:54:06 < mawk> whatever price it takes
2022-02-19T15:54:34 < kakium69> ice hockey gold medal > stability of europe
2022-02-19T15:55:24 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-02-19T15:56:35 < BrainDamage> https://bazel.build/
2022-02-19T15:56:59 < kakium69> but idk it's not sweden the main rule of finnish ice hockey is that "as long sweden loses"
2022-02-19T16:01:08 < mawk> yes it's the android shit BrainDamage 
2022-02-19T16:01:26 < BrainDamage> except here's being used for other things
2022-02-19T16:01:38 < mawk> that should be illegal 
2022-02-19T16:01:45 < BrainDamage> still a google sponsored project, buuut
2022-02-19T16:01:50 < mawk> I'm going do drachten Steffanx come see me
2022-02-19T16:01:59 < BrainDamage> if the sponsoring comes at the price of using insane tools
2022-02-19T16:02:00 < mawk> to*
2022-02-19T16:02:38 < BrainDamage> the best part is that when I try executing it,  it fails as if it was compiled for a different architecture
2022-02-19T16:02:42 < BrainDamage> a java program
2022-02-19T16:02:48 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T16:02:51 < mawk> nice
2022-02-19T16:03:39 < BrainDamage> I think they do something megastupid like including some binary libs in the package, but I reaaaalllly don't want to know
2022-02-19T16:03:56 < BrainDamage> some things are best left undisturbed, lest they cast their curse on you
2022-02-19T16:05:22 < Steffanx> no ty mawk
2022-02-19T16:08:24 < mawk> :()
2022-02-19T16:08:26 < mawk> :((
2022-02-19T16:08:31 < mawk> why Steffanx 
2022-02-19T16:08:37 < mawk> I'm an adorable human being
2022-02-19T16:08:49 < mawk> I won't get you arrested 
2022-02-19T16:08:57 < mawk> it's safe to see me
2022-02-19T16:11:16 < Laurenceb> typical russian recreational activity
2022-02-19T16:11:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkwEfbIBnDU
2022-02-19T16:13:53 < mawk> out of all the irc people I saw: 2 ended in my bed, I took drugs with 2 of them, went to party with 2 of them, just drank a coffee with 1 of them, and went to a computer security seminar with another one
2022-02-19T16:14:03 < mawk> and I ended working with 1 of them for a month also
2022-02-19T16:14:09 < mawk> and none got arrested or died
2022-02-19T16:16:40 < Steffanx> yet.
2022-02-19T16:16:49 < Steffanx> You went for a slow killer
2022-02-19T16:18:17 < kakium69> Laurenceb: do they even have masks on?
2022-02-19T16:18:40 < mawk> I'm an angel Steffanx 
2022-02-19T16:21:24 < Steffanx> Covid wasnt hot yet in 2016 kakium69
2022-02-19T16:22:24 < BrainDamage> mawk: so except for the seminar, all others involved drugs in some way
2022-02-19T16:22:51 < mawk> why BrainDamage 
2022-02-19T16:22:52 < BrainDamage> serotonin, various recreational drugs, caffeine, ethanol, etc
2022-02-19T16:22:52 < mawk> no
2022-02-19T16:23:00 < mawk> I never drink alcohol
2022-02-19T16:23:10 < mawk> and I worked with one I said
2022-02-19T16:23:17 < mawk> computer stuff
2022-02-19T16:24:59 < mawk> party means listen to hard techno on a couch in the apartment of a guy you met 10 minutes ago
2022-02-19T16:25:10 < mawk> no alcohol involved 
2022-02-19T16:25:37 < mawk> I cannot say for other things though 
2022-02-19T16:25:58 < BrainDamage> no adidas tracksuit, tri poloski and sunflower seeds?
2022-02-19T16:26:04 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T16:26:47 < mawk> I like sunflower seeds though 
2022-02-19T16:27:25 < BrainDamage> great, now teach yourself to squat for extended time
2022-02-19T16:27:44 < mawk> I know half the cyrillic alphabet
2022-02-19T16:28:37 < BrainDamage> also, forgot to mention one thing about bazel
2022-02-19T16:28:39 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/JK4pUIG.png
2022-02-19T16:28:46 < BrainDamage> 10/10 web design skills
2022-02-19T16:29:04 < mawk> lol
2022-02-19T16:29:14 < mawk> it says aspect_ratio in the middle there
2022-02-19T16:29:18 < mawk> very à propos
2022-02-19T16:29:37 < mawk> perché la bazel?
2022-02-19T16:29:45 < mawk> perché means high in french
2022-02-19T16:29:59 < mawk> bazel is coked out
2022-02-19T16:47:38 < qyx> kakium69: svk:swe 2:0
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2022-02-19T16:53:29 < Steffanx> I met enough irc people for the next 10 years mawk.
2022-02-19T16:53:51 < Steffanx> Mr. BD was one of them
2022-02-19T16:54:07 < mawk> yes but you never met one as entertaining as me
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2022-02-19T17:01:43 < Laurenceb> does lunix perror access a stack of error numbers or just a single "last error" global?
2022-02-19T17:02:15 < jpa-> just errno
2022-02-19T17:02:19 < mawk> there is an array of error messages
2022-02-19T17:02:31 < mawk> indexed by the errno number
2022-02-19T17:02:40 < mawk> that's what perror returns
2022-02-19T17:03:01 < mawk> it's not a stack; it's a single global last error
2022-02-19T17:03:31 < Laurenceb> so whats the point of the array then?
2022-02-19T17:03:39 < mawk> to store the error messages
2022-02-19T17:03:47 < mawk> how else would you do it
2022-02-19T17:04:19 < mawk> ["permission error", "i/o error", "socket error", …] is the array
2022-02-19T17:04:41 < mawk> then if error number is 2 perror will return array[2] which has for instance "i/o error"
2022-02-19T17:04:45 < mawk> it's straightforward 
2022-02-19T17:05:23 < Laurenceb> oh you mean a lookup to see what they mean, ok
2022-02-19T17:05:26 < mawk> yes
2022-02-19T17:05:42 < mawk> and the error number is stored in the global variable errno
2022-02-19T17:06:47 < Laurenceb> ok well I call perror twice following an error and the second time I get "Invalid argument"
2022-02-19T17:07:25 < mawk> invalid argument is an errno message yes
2022-02-19T17:07:54 < mawk> you did something between the two perror calls that set errno to EINVAL
2022-02-19T17:08:26 < jpa-> or the first perror call gave an error for some reason
2022-02-19T17:08:41 < mawk> yeah, if the argument to perror wasn't NULL and was a bad pointer 
2022-02-19T17:08:53 < mawk> but I'd expect a segfault instead
2022-02-19T17:12:47 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/uFinnTgP
2022-02-19T17:13:36 < jpa-> Laurenceb: so, you call fclose(), maybe it gives an error
2022-02-19T17:13:37 < Laurenceb> when the network goes down, line 69 runs as expected
2022-02-19T17:13:40 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-19T17:14:21 < jpa-> do you initialize f to null?
2022-02-19T17:15:14 < jpa-> also, is your keyboard broken or something? there are way more whitespace than usual
2022-02-19T17:15:28 < Laurenceb> f is initialised to NULL, yeah
2022-02-19T17:17:53 < benishor> is there an idiomatic way of counting passed microseconds?
2022-02-19T17:18:18 < jpa-> benishor: lot's of people use DWT->CYCCNT for that
2022-02-19T17:18:36 < benishor> jpa-: what resolution does that have?
2022-02-19T17:18:41 < jpa-> 1 cpu cycle
2022-02-19T17:18:53 < benishor> awesome, thank you!
2022-02-19T17:19:07 < jpa-> works fine until some library decides they want to reset it
2022-02-19T17:19:24 < benishor> gah
2022-02-19T17:19:26 < jpa-> if everyone just reads it and (uint32_t) subtracts previous value, everyone is happy
2022-02-19T17:19:33 < benishor> of course, minding the overflows
2022-02-19T17:20:01 < benishor> as for reseting it, trespassers should be shot. survivors should be shot again
2022-02-19T17:20:08 < jpa-> no need to mind them if you just cast the result to (uint32_t)
2022-02-19T17:20:35 < benishor> you're right
2022-02-19T17:20:53 < benishor> thank you, jpa-
2022-02-19T17:22:00 < jpa-> np
2022-02-19T17:23:00 < qyx> kakium69: lol 4:0 in swedish powerplay
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2022-02-19T17:24:19 < Steffanx> Only bronze..
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2022-02-19T17:24:31 < qyx> better than nothing
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2022-02-19T20:28:38 < Laurenceb> >Mike McCulloch is now a "proud father"
2022-02-19T20:28:46 < Laurenceb> Darwin fails yet again
2022-02-19T20:28:57 < Laurenceb> emdrive form babby
2022-02-19T20:29:13 < Steffanx> You missed the video of you i found on the internet Laurenceb
2022-02-19T20:29:14 < Steffanx> https://www.dumpert.nl/?selectedId=100022794_a23420a3
2022-02-19T20:30:46 < Laurenceb> wtf
2022-02-19T20:31:01 < Laurenceb> where did you find that video of my dad
2022-02-19T20:31:21 < Steffanx> haha, i wouldnt be surprised if you're not even joking
2022-02-19T20:32:02 < Steffanx> dumpert.nl is the dutch random shit on the web dump website
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2022-02-19T20:58:05 < Laurenceb> keeek Mike is an antivaxxer
2022-02-19T21:10:37 < Laurenceb> vaxxines are a conspiracy by dark matter
2022-02-19T21:11:44 < Steffanx> Ok
2022-02-19T21:33:52 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@37-33-16-236.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-19T21:40:06 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/Austen/status/1439453601580011525#m
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2022-02-19T21:45:46 < bitmask> hi hi
2022-02-19T21:54:41 < Steffanx> Lo lo 
2022-02-19T21:54:48 < Steffanx> Welcome to the club rob235 
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2022-02-19T22:07:12 < kakium69> hello night shift
2022-02-19T22:11:20 < Steffanx> pretty early night then
2022-02-19T22:11:25 < Steffanx> Hows AVRing sir kakium69?
2022-02-19T22:11:38 < kakium69> not yet started today
2022-02-19T22:11:56 < kakium69> it takes much longer time than expecteds
2022-02-19T22:13:59 < kakium69> my pwm code is like 1000lines already
2022-02-19T22:14:17 < kakium69> it's rather sophisticated system
2022-02-19T22:14:18 < Steffanx> must be some very special kind of pwm then
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2022-02-19T22:15:32 < kakium69> I mean I could have done it in 10lines
2022-02-19T22:15:39 < kakium69> like everybody does
2022-02-19T22:16:20 < jpa-> it's 1024 lines of    if (pwm == 1) { delay(1); digitalWrite(5, 1); delay(1023); digitalWrite(5, 0);}
2022-02-19T22:16:38 < Steffanx> lol, i was about the write something similar :D
2022-02-19T22:16:44 < Steffanx> to write*
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2022-02-19T22:25:26 < kakium69> how does internal oscillator like if I calibrate it to it's limit
2022-02-19T22:25:36 < kakium69> does it run "rough"
2022-02-19T22:26:07 < kakium69> limit in this case is downwards limit
2022-02-19T22:26:23 < kakium69> so EEPROM and FLASH operations should be fine
2022-02-19T22:27:05 < kakium69> I just wonder if it causes increased jitter, power consumption etc.
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2022-02-19T22:27:44 < kakium69> how does such calibration even work?
2022-02-19T22:27:53 < kakium69> what makes it change frequency
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 20 2022
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2022-02-20T00:22:17 < kakium69> everybodi sleep now?
2022-02-20T00:23:00 < Steffanx> Kyllä
2022-02-20T00:27:57 < catphish> i'm not asleep :)
2022-02-20T00:28:39 < Steffanx> Are you sure?
2022-02-20T00:30:56 < kakium69> silmät kiinni Steffan
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2022-02-20T00:33:30 < catphish_> 96% sure
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2022-02-20T00:34:53 < kakium69> how is projects catphish?
2022-02-20T00:35:42 < kakium69> your car is still hanging on ceiling?
2022-02-20T00:36:18 < kakium69> did your boards work nicelly?
2022-02-20T00:36:45 < catphish> kakium69: the body shell is indeed still hanging from the ceiling, project is going quite well, motor is mounted, designing battery mounts now, battery management PCBs seem to work well
2022-02-20T00:39:38 < kakium69> did you weld motor mount yourself?
2022-02-20T00:40:46 < kakium69> it's tube frame mount?
2022-02-20T00:40:56 < kakium69> or something more advanced
2022-02-20T00:41:06 < kakium69> steel I assume
2022-02-20T00:50:32 < catphish> kakium69: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/vx220-with-tesla-sdu.205616/page-4#post-1085746
2022-02-20T00:51:06 < catphish> i have a friend who is doing the welding for me at the moment
2022-02-20T00:51:29 < catphish> the motor mount is a combination of OEM motor mount at the back and home made motor mount at the front
2022-02-20T00:51:53 < catphish> DIY motor mount, steel: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.diyelectriccar.com/attachments/pxl_20220204_154128981-jpg.127368/
2022-02-20T00:51:59 < kakium69> welding straight retangles requires skill
2022-02-20T00:52:14 < kakium69> I have done it once from similar profiles
2022-02-20T00:52:21 < kakium69> it needed to be also flat
2022-02-20T00:52:35 < catphish> the first link above is actually about the battery box mount, which sits about the motor
2022-02-20T00:52:49 < catphish> my friend is a extremely competent welder
2022-02-20T00:53:07 < kakium69> thing just visibly bends every time glue is applied
2022-02-20T00:53:26 < catphish> this is the battery box mounting frame, which site above the motor: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/attachments/pxl_20220216_152531468-jpg.127665/
2022-02-20T00:53:45 < catphish> i'm pretty happy with all this
2022-02-20T00:54:13 < kakium69> I don't know if I like the lever action that motor mount has
2022-02-20T00:54:41 < catphish> the forces on that are only vertical (i hope)
2022-02-20T00:55:23 < kakium69> well the motor also wants to turn over
2022-02-20T00:55:44 < catphish> vertical, though :)
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2022-02-20T00:56:39 < catphish> we'll have to see, luckily the mount that takes the majority of the force is a very strong OEM mounting point
2022-02-20T00:56:48 < kakium69> what is the unit you have there?
2022-02-20T00:57:16 < catphish> this photo shows the 2 motor mounts better https://www.diyelectriccar.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.diyelectriccar.com/attachments/pxl_20220204_161041749-jpg.127370/
2022-02-20T00:57:41 < catphish> the one on the left is nearest the axles and will have the majority of the torque on it
2022-02-20T00:57:55 < catphish> that's a tesla small drive unit
2022-02-20T00:58:09 < kakium69> brah
2022-02-20T00:58:16 < kakium69> is it bolted to aluminium?
2022-02-20T00:58:28 < catphish> yes
2022-02-20T00:58:49 < catphish> (on the right)
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2022-02-20T01:01:12 < catphish> kakium69: detail: https://i.imgur.com/Q7m3vwC.jpg - don't blame me, this is how lotus designed the car
2022-02-20T01:01:40 < catphish> all i did was extend the OEM engine mount upwards a few inches
2022-02-20T01:02:51 < kakium69> original engine was mounted in such lever in aluminium beam?
2022-02-20T01:03:25 < catphish> yes, this is the OEM mount, before i extended it: https://i.imgur.com/P71BhpH.jpg
2022-02-20T01:05:35 < catphish> the OEM engine also had mounts higher up to support the weight of the engine itself, but these are the points that counter the torque the engine produces
2022-02-20T01:06:22 < kakium69> isn't the torque translated to all the mounts
2022-02-20T01:07:24 < kakium69> all the mounts outside line of output shaft
2022-02-20T01:07:55 < catphish> you're right, to an extent they will all take some of the torque
2022-02-20T01:09:08 < catphish> the tesla motor has 3 mounts, but the third one is almost in line with the output shaft and is definitely only indended to support the weight of the motor
2022-02-20T01:09:17 < catphish> another photo: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.diyelectriccar.com/attachments/pxl_20220214_173521125-jpg.127586/
2022-02-20T01:09:58 < catphish> the support on the right (currently hanging with a strap) is useless, so i absolutely need to support the other 2 as well as possible
2022-02-20T01:10:54 < catphish> i have a decent amount of faith in that aluminium cross piece, but i could potentially link it to the bar i've added above for a little more strength
2022-02-20T01:13:12 < kakium69> I think it could take any vertical load you throw at it
2022-02-20T01:14:25 < catphish> i'm sure, it's just the lever that's the concern, though not a huge one i hope
2022-02-20T01:14:36 < kakium69> you could calculate it
2022-02-20T01:16:32 < catphish> i could, but i probably won't
2022-02-20T01:16:36 < kakium69> if you put weight on the motor or lift it
2022-02-20T01:16:41 < kakium69> do you see any flexing
2022-02-20T01:16:43 < kakium69> any motion
2022-02-20T01:16:47 < kakium69> feel anything
2022-02-20T01:17:37 < kakium69> you could try it with hydraulic jack
2022-02-20T01:17:52 < catphish> i'll double check, but from my memory, no movement at all with the current setup, i'll jack up the motor, and see how much the mount moved
2022-02-20T01:17:55 < catphish> *moves
2022-02-20T01:18:36 < catphish> it should be possble to lift the whole car by lifting the motor, but i've not wanted to test this :)
2022-02-20T01:19:02 < kakium69> it should not be any problem to lift the rear up from motor
2022-02-20T01:19:15 < kakium69> and mounts should not flex
2022-02-20T01:19:37 < kakium69> with batteries.. maybe not
2022-02-20T01:20:20 < catphish> batteries are a pretty substantial portion, indeed
2022-02-20T01:21:06 < catphish> the car without drivetrain should be about 800kg, so about 400 in the rear, the batteries will add 200 to that
2022-02-20T01:23:11 < catphish> this week i'm taking a week off mechanical engineering and looking at hacking the CCS charging system
2022-02-20T01:23:40 < kakium69> how much rear wheels will have weight?
2022-02-20T01:24:03 < kakium69> on them
2022-02-20T01:24:12 < catphish> i really don't know 
2022-02-20T01:24:24 < kakium69> 500kg
2022-02-20T01:25:01 < catphish> i didn't weigh the car before i started, what i do know is that that car is supposed to be about 1000kg, equally distributed 500/500 originally
2022-02-20T01:25:46 < kakium69> more than 500kg to rear then?
2022-02-20T01:25:56 < catphish> i'm removing approx 200kg engine, and replacing with 300kg motor+batteries, in a similar configuration in front of the rear axl
2022-02-20T01:26:16 < kakium69> 600kg
2022-02-20T01:26:25 < catphish> so i'd say perhaps 600kg rear
2022-02-20T01:28:35 < kakium69> just by eyeballing the ratios of mounting points and tyre diameters I think that motor mount will pull upwards with at least force of 400kg
2022-02-20T01:29:12 < kakium69> like.. minimum 400kg but likelly more
2022-02-20T01:31:22 < kakium69> in static condition without weight shifting etc.
2022-02-20T01:35:11 < catphish> i calculated the torque, i'll look it up
2022-02-20T01:39:51 < catphish> 3,232 NM at the axle, so assuming the mount is 500mm from the axle, 650kg at the mount, assuming it's taking 100% of the force
2022-02-20T01:42:15 < kakium69> 3232 is a torque limiter?
2022-02-20T01:42:31 < kakium69> or rubber maximum?
2022-02-20T01:42:34 < qyx> hey zyp, did you use flask?
2022-02-20T01:43:17 < catphish> that's the torque of the motor at max rated current apparently
2022-02-20T01:43:56 < catphish> according to https://stealthev.com/product/tesla-low-power-rear-drive-unit/
2022-02-20T01:44:01 < catphish> that's the "max torque"
2022-02-20T01:44:24 < catphish> ie presumably its torque at its max current of 650 amps
2022-02-20T01:44:59 < catphish> i doubt i'll run it this hard, but makes sense to use that number
2022-02-20T01:46:31 < catphish> in any case, your estimate seems surprisingly accurate
2022-02-20T01:47:05 < kakium69> my estimate is from rubber maximum
2022-02-20T01:47:16 < catphish> rubber maximum?
2022-02-20T01:47:43 < kakium69> when it starts smoking tyres
2022-02-20T01:47:57 < kakium69> instead of pushing hard
2022-02-20T01:48:15 < catphish> tyres have no chance at 3,232 NM
2022-02-20T01:48:40 < catphish> i'll probably be software limiting it to something my tyres can take
2022-02-20T01:48:41 < kakium69> friction thing.. it can push forward like 1.15x the force that pushes wheels down
2022-02-20T01:49:16 < catphish> surely that depends on the width of the tyres
2022-02-20T01:49:54 < kakium69> premium road tyres are something like 1.2x
2022-02-20T01:50:32 < kakium69> extra sticky race tyres 2x?
2022-02-20T01:51:24 < catphish> but.... that ratio makes no sense without a width, does it?
2022-02-20T01:51:57 < catphish> i mean, if the tyre was twice the width, wouldn't be be able to create twice the friection, with the same downward force
2022-02-20T01:52:09 < kakium69> ofc not
2022-02-20T01:52:34 < catphish> why not?
2022-02-20T01:53:47 < catphish> well the weight on my rear wheels is 6000N, so an acceleration force of 720N? seems a bit arbitrary to me
2022-02-20T01:54:48 < kakium69> there is optimum width or patch size that has the highest friction coefficient
2022-02-20T01:55:50 < kakium69> too large -> not enought pressure
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2022-02-20T01:56:30 < catphish> that ratio actually doesn't provide a result too different from what i expected
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2022-02-20T01:57:08 < catphish> 7200N / 1100kg = 6.5m/s^2
2022-02-20T01:58:09 < kakium69> thats quick
2022-02-20T01:58:57 < catphish> that represends a 0-60 of almost exactly 4.0s which is what i'm hoping for with this monstrosity :)
2022-02-20T01:59:24 < catphish> i guess adding weight to the rear has its benefits
2022-02-20T01:59:52 < kakium69> in rear wheel drive yes
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2022-02-20T02:02:34 < kakium69> by looking at the motor mount photos I think it has lever ratio of 1.5:1 or 2:1
2022-02-20T02:04:57 < kakium69> in addition to vertical force it would push bolts above forward in that ratio and pull bolts bellow backwards in that ratio
2022-02-20T02:09:33 < catphish> *nod*
2022-02-20T02:10:31 < kakium69> I don't see how that beam would survive such beating unless it's really well fixed to the structure
2022-02-20T02:12:03 < catphish> the beam is going to have to be tough, perhaps i should add some steel to help reinforce it, the best bet might just be to couple the motor mount to the steel beam i added above it
2022-02-20T02:12:25 < catphish> or i could just add steel in parallel with it along the bottom
2022-02-20T02:13:18 < kakium69> could you add some steel to the mount and connect it to another point in the car?
2022-02-20T02:15:23 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-20T02:16:43 < catphish> that aluminium cross piece connects to the aluminium chassis on eash side of the car
2022-02-20T02:17:09 < catphish> so all one can do is reinfirce it with more of the same
2022-02-20T02:18:10 < kakium69> is it bolted to the wall in front?
2022-02-20T02:18:17 < kakium69> welded, glued?
2022-02-20T02:18:24 < catphish> i'm currently enjoying a power outage at my house, been 2 days so far, estimated time to fix is one more day
2022-02-20T02:18:38 < kakium69> shieet
2022-02-20T02:18:50 < kakium69> storm?
2022-02-20T02:18:54 < catphish> the wall in front is just plastic, not going to support anything
2022-02-20T02:19:27 < kakium69> yaiks
2022-02-20T02:20:57 < kakium69> I thought it had steel or aluminum wall and the beam was bolted to it
2022-02-20T02:21:06 < catphish> this car is basically an aluminium chassis, consisting of a strong tube down each side, and several cross pieces, then a fibreglass shell on top
2022-02-20T02:21:40 < catphish> everything that isn't that aluminium chassis is basically plastic or fibreglass
2022-02-20T02:22:10 < catphish> hence 1000kg :)
2022-02-20T02:23:42 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/IyxYEak.jpg looking at this, there *is* some aluminium wall above the beam before it turns to plastic
2022-02-20T02:24:07 < catphish> i wouldn't want to rely on it for much though
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2022-02-20T02:32:39 < catphish> ugh, why is "the west" so keen on a war with russia :(
2022-02-20T02:33:01 < catphish> slightly inflamatory headline here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60448162
2022-02-20T02:35:49 < qyx> uh, keen?
2022-02-20T02:36:33 < kakium69> catphish: https://drive.google.com/file/d/164MrIChZkBso9wBHxVzXqJYyA95TrhCt/view?usp=sharing
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2022-02-20T02:36:37 < qyx> I am not really sure what other attitude should they have
2022-02-20T02:37:19 < kakium69> catphish: you mean fear mongering?
2022-02-20T02:37:21 < kakium69> it sells
2022-02-20T02:37:39 < catphish> maybe i'm wrong, but my interpretation of the news (propaganda) is that we're being prepared to enter a war, rather than to sit back while while other countries have one
2022-02-20T02:37:45 < qyx> thats probably better name for it
2022-02-20T02:38:07 < qyx> oh
2022-02-20T02:38:18 < catphish> my view is that the USA, and by extension, Britian, *want* to get involved in this conflict
2022-02-20T02:38:35 < kakium69> or they want putin to think they want in it
2022-02-20T02:38:50 < qyx> for sure, otjerwise mr puitin will extent his borders more to the west
2022-02-20T02:39:00 < catphish> why do we care?
2022-02-20T02:39:01 < kakium69> 4D chess
2022-02-20T02:39:50 < catphish> lol
2022-02-20T02:40:00 < qyx> and even that's questionable, when crimea happened, the west did nothing
2022-02-20T02:40:49 < qyx> it will bne like the same this time
2022-02-20T02:40:52 < qyx> fucking android
2022-02-20T02:41:10 < qyx> it will likely be the same..
2022-02-20T02:41:37 < catphish> i realise that nobody wants any one country to conquor the whole world, but when one country who isn't an ally invades another country who isn't an ally, i kinda wish we could just spend our money on health care instead
2022-02-20T02:42:37 < kakium69> geopolitics matter
2022-02-20T02:42:44 < qyx> the problem in this particular case is europe's green energy politics going mad
2022-02-20T02:43:04 < qyx> we are bnasically fully dependent on russia's resources
2022-02-20T02:43:22 < catphish> if green energy policies were mad, we'd all be using our own solar and wouldn't care abou russia
2022-02-20T02:43:25 < qyx> the xonflict started escalating whem the nordstream2 was stopped
2022-02-20T02:43:59 < qyx> fuckijg solar
2022-02-20T02:44:09 < qyx> photovoltaics is not going to work
2022-02-20T02:44:10 < kakium69> you drunk
2022-02-20T02:44:15 < catphish> my point is, it's not *our* conflict, we don't need to spend money on it
2022-02-20T02:44:33 < qyx> we need because we need the gas
2022-02-20T02:44:44 < catphish> i love me some PV cells
2022-02-20T02:44:44 < qyx> but that's our fault
2022-02-20T02:45:05 < catphish> PV + hydro = winning imo
2022-02-20T02:45:11 < qyx> we are shutting down nukes, because bad
2022-02-20T02:45:21 < qyx> the wind is not cooperating
2022-02-20T02:45:25 < qyx> etx.
2022-02-20T02:45:35 < kakium69> it's corruption
2022-02-20T02:45:53 < catphish> nuclear is a perfect interrim soltion
2022-02-20T02:46:02 < qyx> so many countries are forced to use gas
2022-02-20T02:46:15 < catphish> i'll take nuclear while we're into rimming
2022-02-20T02:46:18 < catphish> *interrimming
2022-02-20T02:46:22 < kakium69> somebody in power is getting pay when use of gas or coal increases
2022-02-20T02:47:05 < qyx> idk how much is russia needing to sell its gas
2022-02-20T02:47:08 < catphish> on the other hand, my house has no power at all right now, so meh
2022-02-20T02:47:14 < qyx> but probably it gives them some money
2022-02-20T02:47:23 < kakium69> qyx: they need to
2022-02-20T02:47:38 < kakium69> but they can survive not selling for a while
2022-02-20T02:47:46 < qyx> anyway
2022-02-20T02:47:47 < catphish> spic storm in UK means i have a (estimated) 72 hour power outage
2022-02-20T02:47:57 < qyx> the whole kremling should have died of covid
2022-02-20T02:48:05 < qyx> -g
2022-02-20T02:48:17 < kakium69> it's not just kremling
2022-02-20T02:48:22 < catphish> qyx: are you doing drugs right now?
2022-02-20T02:48:38 < qyx> catphish: no, writing on a tablet in bed
2022-02-20T02:48:42 < catphish> ah
2022-02-20T02:48:50 < catphish> you should do some drugs, they're good
2022-02-20T02:48:57 < qyx> heh
2022-02-20T02:49:36 < catphish> i've moved to my parents house for the weekend, they have nice alcohols :)
2022-02-20T02:49:52 < kakium69> chill catphish
2022-02-20T02:50:15 < qyx> how mane households are without electricity in uk now?
2022-02-20T02:50:40 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/164MrIChZkBso9wBHxVzXqJYyA95TrhCt/view?usp=sharing what do you think of this force diagram catphish?
2022-02-20T02:51:16 < catphish> this is the power line into my village: https://i.imgur.com/Qm6gfio.jpg
2022-02-20T02:51:33 < catphish> (it's not supposed to be lying in the road)
2022-02-20T02:51:54 < kakium69> translate torque to mounting point into force that pushes battery frame and have tension struts from back corners of battery frame
2022-02-20T02:52:43 < qyx> I would not dare walking that close
2022-02-20T02:53:47 < catphish> kakium69: i think you've misunderstood the distance between the motor mount and the frame above it, it's essentially all vertical
2022-02-20T02:54:13 < qyx> also, I hate airborne power cables
2022-02-20T02:54:30 < qyx> they have stolen our env and nature
2022-02-20T02:54:41 < catphish> kakium69: the rotating force on the shaft will result in a vertical force on the mount, the mount is almost directly below the frame
2022-02-20T02:55:00 < kakium69> aah
2022-02-20T02:56:36 < catphish> kakium69: https://i.imgur.com/PhO1V3q.jpg
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2022-02-20T02:58:41 < catphish> qyx: i actually stepped right over the cables, they're literally on the ground, i couldn't provide a better path to ground :)
2022-02-20T02:59:47 < catphish> they're probably de-dnergized at this point, but i wasn't going to touch them to check
2022-02-20T03:00:07 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-20T03:00:46 < kakium69> but always do not assume
2022-02-20T03:01:00 < catphish> indeed
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2022-02-20T03:01:32 < kakium69> in dry weather it might not activate circuit breaker
2022-02-20T03:02:21 < kakium69> sometimes there is tree branches on mid-voltage line
2022-02-20T03:03:12 < catphish> indeed, a tree branch has torn it down, i assume it would have shorted to ground, it's wet here today, but wouldn't want to assume
2022-02-20T03:03:32 < kakium69> breaker does this sequence 1sec off - test - 2sec off - test - 4sec off - test - darkness
2022-02-20T03:03:34 < catphish> in any case, i hope they come and fix it soon, i like electricity
2022-02-20T03:06:02 < kakium69> once in adsl era I just fixed the line myself
2022-02-20T03:06:14 < kakium69> the phone line
2022-02-20T03:07:18 < kakium69> took a roll of some random wire and used it to connect ends of telephone line laying on ground
2022-02-20T03:07:27 < kakium69> then went back to internets
2022-02-20T03:08:03 < kakium69> somebody supposedly fixed it propper some day after dat
2022-02-20T03:12:39 < catphish> fixing phone line is probably pretty easy compared with 11kV+ power line :)
2022-02-20T03:12:45 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-20T03:13:17 < kakium69> those power lines need all kinds of tools to get it up there
2022-02-20T03:13:41 < kakium69> I have ladder and 2 strong hands doesn't cut it
2022-02-20T03:16:08 < kakium69> but if you don't have option
2022-02-20T03:21:30 < qyx> catphish: it is unsafe to go near high voltage cables lying on ground, idk how is it called properly in english, but the voltage potential between your two legs can kill you when you walk towards them or away
2022-02-20T03:22:19 < kakium69> it tingles
2022-02-20T03:23:16 < qyx> you should always jump away with the legs kept together
2022-02-20T03:23:39 < qyx> at least all emergency guides list that, I didn't try myself
2022-02-20T03:24:07 < catphish> qyx: that makes sense, i'd certainly be more worried if i were near an exposed conductor, and not wearing insulated shoes
2022-02-20T03:24:16 < qyx> we even have such guide for agriculture workers
2022-02-20T03:24:35 < catphish> but yes, i was still concerned and cuatious, but seeminly, safe :)
2022-02-20T03:24:37 < qyx> apparently it happens they drag some cables down
2022-02-20T03:25:42 < qyx> but yeah, yolo
2022-02-20T03:25:54 < qyx> you don't see such thick cables everyday
2022-02-20T03:26:00 < qyx> I would go look too
2022-02-20T03:27:10 < kakium69> did you know
2022-02-20T03:27:34 < kakium69> long transmission lines can electrocute you even when not energized
2022-02-20T03:27:58 < catphish> i didnt' know that
2022-02-20T03:28:00 < kakium69> just the static electricity
2022-02-20T03:29:14 < kakium69> wind blows a bit and you have 100kV charge sitting there
2022-02-20T03:29:38 < catphish> fun
2022-02-20T03:30:07 < kakium69> this is in case there is line that is connected to nothing
2022-02-20T03:31:28 < kakium69> massive capacitor effectivelly
2022-02-20T03:42:29 < kakium69> not only all phases need to be shorted together but all those phases need to be connected to sturdy earthing pole
2022-02-20T03:42:37 < kakium69> then it's rather safe
2022-02-20T03:44:24 < kakium69> you would think seeing all 3 lines in one pile on tarmac it's safe it's not sparking and shit
2022-02-20T03:47:58 < kakium69> proceed to touch dem and get zapped to another realm
2022-02-20T03:49:30 < catphish> yeah i wouldn't get closer than "stepping over" (about 500mm)
2022-02-20T03:50:04 < catphish> and only because they were insulated and touching the ground
2022-02-20T03:52:58 < kakium69> usually I think the transformers have earth connection
2022-02-20T03:53:57 < Laurenceb> keekkkk
2022-02-20T03:54:00 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/51196.0/2024372.jpg
2022-02-20T03:54:36 < kakium69> you were banned from twitter?
2022-02-20T03:54:59 < kakium69> about time
2022-02-20T03:55:23 < Laurenceb> lmao
2022-02-20T03:55:56 < Laurenceb> just from emdrive guys twitter
2022-02-20T03:56:02 < Laurenceb> for trolling him
2022-02-20T03:56:19 < Laurenceb> also he has autism face
2022-02-20T03:57:57 < Laurenceb> keeek wut https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/51196.0/2086072.jpg
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2022-02-20T03:58:16 < Laurenceb> never go full timecube
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2022-02-20T04:03:56 < kakium69> how is highspeedtrains Laurenceb?
2022-02-20T04:04:35 < kakium69> did you rewrite that SPI mess?
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2022-02-20T09:31:25 < jpa-> such hybrid warfare - russia loses hockey, destabilizes finnish society
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2022-02-20T10:30:49 < Steffanx> Live report from the streets jpa-  ?
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2022-02-20T10:39:40 < catphish> morning
2022-02-20T10:41:58 < Steffanx> Youre up early...
2022-02-20T10:58:27 < catphish> quite!
2022-02-20T10:58:54 < catphish> i'm staying with my parents because they have electricity!
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2022-02-20T12:05:26 < qyx> jpa-: lold
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2022-02-20T12:31:43 < Steffanx> Time to put the cables IN the ground, catphish  
2022-02-20T12:32:07 < catphish> at least my internet cables are in the ground
2022-02-20T12:32:21 < Steffanx> OK our HV cables aren't in the ground either, but the lower voltage ones are.
2022-02-20T12:33:36 < ventYl> surprisingly, digikey has fairly usable howto on using vscode with cortex-m via openocd
2022-02-20T12:41:26 < catphish> handy
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2022-02-20T17:09:44 < Laurenceb> hmm I have weird errors in muh logs
2022-02-20T17:10:08 < Laurenceb> looks like fopen was failing for a while on a ramfs
2022-02-20T17:10:16 < Laurenceb> then the problem went away again... wtf
2022-02-20T17:10:41 < Laurenceb> nothing in dmesg
2022-02-20T17:19:15 < Laurenceb> I'll add some better debug to grab errno
2022-02-20T17:19:39 < Laurenceb> looks like fopen was returning NULL... but then later it wasnt.. wtf
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2022-02-20T22:41:25 < kakium69> jpa-: where is destabilization?
2022-02-20T22:41:42 < kakium69> I have been outside loop today
2022-02-20T22:41:49 < kakium69> apparently
2022-02-20T22:44:11 < kakium69> nothing on news
2022-02-20T22:47:07 < Steffanx> but how many people have you seen outside kakium69?
2022-02-20T22:47:18 < kakium69> 2
2022-02-20T22:47:21 < Steffanx> :D
2022-02-20T22:47:32 < Steffanx> yourself in the mirror and ..
2022-02-20T22:47:41 < kakium69> idk if there is people in city
2022-02-20T22:48:05 < kakium69> lets see some street cameras
2022-02-20T22:56:05 < Steffanx> isnt finland asleep by now?
2022-02-20T22:56:30 < kakium69> asleep or drunk as hell
2022-02-20T22:57:48 < kakium69> usually hockey final is in afternoon local time so people go to city center immediatelly if team wins
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2022-02-20T23:40:20 < kakium69> if I have atomic blocks one after another
2022-02-20T23:40:49 < kakium69> should I throw some nop between them
2022-02-20T23:42:43 < Laurenceb> is it possible to open the same file twice using fopen in lunix?
2022-02-20T23:43:59 < kakium69> depends on parameters
2022-02-20T23:44:53 < kakium69> I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to read-only same file arbitrary number or times
2022-02-20T23:45:00 < kakium69> *of
2022-02-20T23:46:05 < kakium69> you need 2 seeks or what?
2022-02-20T23:46:19 < Laurenceb> I have lots of threads accessing same file
2022-02-20T23:46:28 < Laurenceb> sometimes they try to write
2022-02-20T23:46:47 < kakium69> sounds like you need a system thingy
2022-02-20T23:46:55 < kakium69> that manages file access
2022-02-20T23:47:41 < kakium69> multiple fopens with write flag doesn't sound good
--- Day changed Mon Feb 21 2022
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2022-02-21T00:08:52 < kakium69> mutex semaphore something
2022-02-21T00:09:08 < kakium69> for controlling which thread can write
2022-02-21T00:09:09 < kakium69> idk.
2022-02-21T00:09:12 < kakium69> never done such thing
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2022-02-21T00:19:11 < kakium69> how did I convert divider(power of two) into number of bitshifts required
2022-02-21T00:19:39 < kakium69> divider is constant
2022-02-21T00:20:00 < kakium69> my brain is slowing down for the day
2022-02-21T00:20:29 < rajkosto> log2 of the divider
2022-02-21T00:21:38 < kakium69> thanks
2022-02-21T00:22:29 < mawk> the fastest way to compute it is to just try it
2022-02-21T00:22:41 < mawk> in a loop, divider >>= 1 until divider is 0
2022-02-21T00:22:44 < mawk> and you get how many you need
2022-02-21T00:22:57 < mawk> if you call log2() you need floating point
2022-02-21T00:23:01 < rajkosto> just use a calculator to test it out
2022-02-21T00:23:02 < mawk> kakium69: 
2022-02-21T00:23:05 < kakium69> it's constant
2022-02-21T00:23:08 < mawk> a
2022-02-21T00:23:11 < kakium69> I want it done compile time
2022-02-21T00:23:14 < rajkosto> enter the divisor you want
2022-02-21T00:23:18 < mawk> then use your pen and paper
2022-02-21T00:23:20 < rajkosto> click rshift
2022-02-21T00:23:28 < mawk> I don't think the compiler can do it
2022-02-21T00:23:30 < mawk> unless it's C++
2022-02-21T00:23:33 < kakium69> it is
2022-02-21T00:23:36 < rajkosto> enter amount you think bitshift should be
2022-02-21T00:23:40 < rajkosto> if its 1, you guessed correct
2022-02-21T00:23:48 < mawk> then maybe template magic can compute a log2 using the loop method I just told
2022-02-21T00:23:51 < mawk> recursive template
2022-02-21T00:23:52 < rajkosto> 2 >> 2 = 1
2022-02-21T00:24:01 < rajkosto> he just wants to do it manually lol
2022-02-21T00:24:22 < rajkosto> which is silly cuz the compiler will do it for you
2022-02-21T00:24:23 < mawk> no he said compile time
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2022-02-21T00:25:07 < mawk> maybe with a lookup table template you can do it
2022-02-21T00:25:23 < mawk> what's the max divider kakium69 
2022-02-21T00:25:43 < mawk> let's say 2048, then your template checks if number is greater than 1024, then 512, then 256, etc
2022-02-21T00:25:57 < mawk> and each time either recurse or stop and give the log
2022-02-21T00:26:01 < mawk> have fun
2022-02-21T00:26:18 < kakium69> constexpr
2022-02-21T00:26:32 < kakium69> no template bs
2022-02-21T00:26:46 < mawk> then no
2022-02-21T00:26:51 < mawk> what's wrong with template?
2022-02-21T00:26:54 < mawk> it's compile time, and it's in C++
2022-02-21T00:26:58 < mawk> it's not bs
2022-02-21T00:27:06 < kakium69> so is constexpr?
2022-02-21T00:27:09 < mawk> no
2022-02-21T00:27:12 < mawk> you can't do it with constexpr
2022-02-21T00:27:20 < mawk> the result of the template can be constexpr yes if you want
2022-02-21T00:27:26 < rajkosto> constexpr if
2022-02-21T00:29:09 < kakium69> https://stackoverflow.com/a/18232687
2022-02-21T00:29:24 < mawk> that sounds a lot like a template kakium69 
2022-02-21T00:29:26 < mawk> I thought it was bs
2022-02-21T00:29:56 < mawk> yes you can do a constexpr function also
2022-02-21T00:30:04 < mawk> but that's not the same as a single expression
2022-02-21T00:30:20 < mawk> there is a recursion limit though, I'm not sure how much
2022-02-21T00:30:39 < mawk> a template works everywhere
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2022-02-21T00:33:16 < kakium69> 512 recursive calls
2022-02-21T00:33:30 < kakium69> plenty
2022-02-21T00:34:17 < kakium69> but better have no limits
2022-02-21T00:34:50 < rajkosto> you cant bitshift with more than 64 anyway
2022-02-21T00:45:46 < Steffanx> So you survived a
2022-02-21T00:45:57 < Steffanx> Another day of frysk, mawk
2022-02-21T00:46:07 < Steffanx> Speak frysk yet?
2022-02-21T00:50:12 < mawk> nee
2022-02-21T00:50:13 < mawk> never
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2022-02-21T01:29:54 < kakium69> can I have static variables inside ISR?
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2022-02-21T01:42:44 < kakium69> yes
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2022-02-21T02:19:11 < Laurenceb> openssl question: if I reuse sessions, I get a new session id at each connection event
2022-02-21T02:19:33 < Laurenceb> is it okay to use that session id in a new session before the first session is closed?
2022-02-21T02:21:36 < kakium69> back to work apparenly. Laurenceb
2022-02-21T02:22:47 < kakium69> are you doing work work?
2022-02-21T02:33:08 < catphish> Laurenceb: i think you can use that session as much as you like
2022-02-21T02:33:45 < catphish> Laurenceb: i don't quite understand why you're getting new session IDs though, i thought the point of reusing sessions was you didn't get new sessions (and hence session IDs)
2022-02-21T02:37:55 < kakium69> he has some problem with those IDs and sessions
2022-02-21T02:39:52 < catphish> sounds like it
2022-02-21T02:40:20 < catphish> not all servers allow session reuse, but it's not clear what the problem is here
2022-02-21T02:41:41 < catphish> anyway i need to go find a banknote so i can look at the queen and imagine her 50 years younger so i can masturbate, have a nice evening all
2022-02-21T02:42:24 < kakium69> it's the late night hitting the wall coding
2022-02-21T02:44:21 < kakium69> catphish: :O  wtf
2022-02-21T02:45:14 < kakium69> it's the brittish way?
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2022-02-21T03:53:02 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1495577120730456069
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2022-02-21T18:05:23 < karlp> fuck me I'd forgotten how painful conda/miniconda shit was.
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2022-02-21T18:11:54 < qyx> lol
2022-02-21T18:13:13 < BrainDamage> I stick to distro packages and write my own if they are missing
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2022-02-21T18:13:28 < BrainDamage> it's often way less pain than dealing with pip, conda & co
2022-02-21T18:13:28 < karlp> this is reinstalling cadquery again
2022-02-21T18:13:48 < karlp> "I'll just knock up some models for you, no problem, it's easy parametrics"
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2022-02-21T19:00:39 < karlp> well, have it running again, and the shipped things in the kicad 3d generator repo are a) busted and b) don't even run without massaging :)
2022-02-21T19:08:52 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1495807472153600008
2022-02-21T19:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> karlp? you mean the models missing?
2022-02-21T19:09:26 < Mangy_Dog> ive been told its mostly playholder file names till they get them modeled
2022-02-21T19:09:38 < Mangy_Dog> ive been using grabcad a lot for the various bits
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2022-02-21T19:19:41 < mawk> do you live under the angry volcano BrainDamage ?
2022-02-21T19:20:10 < mawk> on a vu souvent rejaillir le feu de l'ancien volcan que l'on croyait trop vieux
2022-02-21T19:20:27 < mawk> ne me quitte pas
2022-02-21T19:20:37 < BrainDamage> I'm the farthest possible within italy from all volcanoes
2022-02-21T19:20:44 < mawk> ah nice
2022-02-21T19:20:51 < mawk> no fried brain for dinner
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2022-02-21T19:22:41 < BrainDamage> also, there's not just 1 active volcano here, there's like 5-6
2022-02-21T19:22:54 < BrainDamage> however, most of them are in their own islands
2022-02-21T19:24:51 < BrainDamage> https://worldinmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/volcano-world-map.jpg
2022-02-21T19:24:57 < BrainDamage> you're closer to a volcano than I am
2022-02-21T19:28:57 < jpa-> karlp: aren't there prebuilt package of cadquery nowadays?
2022-02-21T19:29:30 < jpa-> or pip install
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2022-02-21T19:40:34 < karlp> eh, I did a new miniforge and shit, and it's all working again.
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2022-02-21T20:34:25 < mawk> listen to this heavenly music https://youtu.be/_LpYzzYa3VI
2022-02-21T20:34:38 < mawk> especially you karlp I know you are a fine connoisseur of electronic music
2022-02-21T20:34:53 < mawk> there's even hapsichord in it it's almost Mozart
2022-02-21T21:14:18 < Steffanx> The boom boom is pretty standard.. 
2022-02-21T21:14:36 < Steffanx> im not impressed
2022-02-21T21:16:21 < mawk> what
2022-02-21T21:16:26 < mawk> it's not standard at all
2022-02-21T21:16:30 < Steffanx> Yes it is
2022-02-21T21:16:32 < mawk> have you heard the distorsion
2022-02-21T21:16:36 < mawk> it's not common
2022-02-21T21:16:39 < Steffanx> Yes, pretty standard shit
2022-02-21T21:16:46 < mawk> no
2022-02-21T21:16:58 < Steffanx> Yes
2022-02-21T21:16:58 < mawk> you haven't clicked on it I'm sure
2022-02-21T21:17:22 < mawk> zcrkch zcrkch zcrkch is not regular boem boem boem
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2022-02-21T21:18:34 < Steffanx> but all those guys with a subwoofer in the trunk of their vw golf play shit like this.
2022-02-21T21:18:48 < mawk> in a double-controlled blind study, 10 out of 10 people say it's not standard boom boom
2022-02-21T21:19:19 < mawk> noooo
2022-02-21T21:19:25 < BrainDamage> once it goes through a shitty '10kW' car stereo the added distortion makes it undistunguishable
2022-02-21T21:19:41 < mawk> lol
2022-02-21T21:20:16 < Steffanx> true that
2022-02-21T21:20:21 < mawk> I have a 300W subwoofer
2022-02-21T21:20:28 < mawk> it's enough for all purposes
2022-02-21T21:20:31 < Steffanx> poor cat.
2022-02-21T21:20:34 < mawk> but I can't use it, I have neighbors 
2022-02-21T21:20:44 < mawk> so I have intra-auricular headphones 
2022-02-21T21:21:39 < Xogium> those hurt my ears
2022-02-21T21:21:53 < mawk> yeah it can get uncomfortable 
2022-02-21T21:21:55 < Xogium> and they always fall out anyway lol
2022-02-21T21:22:17 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-02-21T21:22:32 < Xogium> so I have beyerdynamic dt700 pro x
2022-02-21T21:23:31 < mawk> looks comfortable
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2022-02-21T21:45:52 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: no, I mean that some of the scripts like https://gitlab.com/kicad/libraries/kicad-packages3D-generator/-/tree/master/Capacitor_THT/cq_models simply don't run (anymore?) 
2022-02-21T21:46:37 < karlp> wtf is that volcano in northern europe?! /me looks at more maps
2022-02-21T21:50:33 < karlp> BrainDamage: what is that map of yours trying to point to near the german/&french border?
2022-02-21T21:53:10 < BrainDamage> karlp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mounts_of_Cantal
2022-02-21T21:53:31 < BrainDamage> it's been quiet since looong time
2022-02-21T21:54:10 < karlp> huh, I found cantal, and also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puy_de_D%C3%B4me but neither of them really felt like they were in the right place.
2022-02-21T22:12:24  * karlp tries not to get triggered by cadquery generating an extra assembly layer in the treee.
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2022-02-21T23:12:26 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/128MfO5nh6yfOvUFSI6MnCA-tA3x3pn1X/view?usp=sharing such battery charge limit appeared to dell uefi setup
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2022-02-21T23:18:19 < Steffanx> i dont recall seeing something like that for mine.
2022-02-21T23:18:44 < Steffanx> what fancy dell did mr kakium69 get?
2022-02-21T23:19:04 < kakium69> 7930
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2022-02-21T23:20:02 < kakium69> Steffanx: did you update your uefi?
2022-02-21T23:20:38 < Steffanx> yeah,  but its also a little less fancy
2022-02-21T23:21:23 < Steffanx> fancy enough for the touchscreen to work though
2022-02-21T23:22:52 < Steffanx> oh, i can set something similar
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2022-02-21T23:45:45 < kakium69> recommended to set stop charge to max 90%
2022-02-21T23:46:14 < kakium69> some rock with as low as 80%
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2022-02-21T23:46:57 < kakium69> also stop%-start% being as high as possible limits cycling
2022-02-21T23:54:34 < Steffanx> It's defaulted to 50-90% here
2022-02-21T23:56:40 < kakium69> :o
--- Day changed Tue Feb 22 2022
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2022-02-22T00:18:09 < Steffanx> Problem with Dell uefi/bios updates is that it takes even longer than Windows updates to install 
2022-02-22T00:18:21 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2022-02-22T00:18:35 < Steffanx> Now it's even updating the usb pd controller
2022-02-22T00:19:00 < kakium69> multiple usb controllers
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2022-02-22T00:24:59 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAYXjnqGkU musics
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2022-02-22T00:29:16 < catphish> i keep my laptop set to 60-80
2022-02-22T00:29:57 < catphish> 80% is plenty for my needs and this should dramatically improve battery lifetime
2022-02-22T00:30:21 < catphish> root@charlie-ThinkPad-T14:~# cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_control_end_threshold
2022-02-22T00:30:21 < catphish> 80
2022-02-22T00:31:40 < kakium69> thinkpad Ts have had that feature for decades
2022-02-22T00:31:43 < kakium69> or so
2022-02-22T00:32:40 < catphish> yeah i've always set it up on my thinkpads
2022-02-22T00:33:01 < catphish> i think my dell xps15 had it too
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2022-02-22T01:28:42 < Laurenceb> https://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video-c.php?v=wshh8Ins90v4v07e9A0E
2022-02-22T01:33:57 < Laurenceb> oh hell yeah
2022-02-22T01:33:59 < Laurenceb> based putin
2022-02-22T01:43:02 < kakium69> should anyone click that link
2022-02-22T01:43:19 < kakium69> yt link plz
2022-02-22T01:44:37 < Steffanx> It shitty kakium69 
2022-02-22T01:44:42 < Steffanx> And fake. As usual
2022-02-22T01:45:19 < kakium69> it always has been
2022-02-22T01:45:32 < kakium69> Laurenceb: how is openssl?
2022-02-22T01:52:03 < Laurenceb> kind of working
2022-02-22T01:52:08 < Laurenceb> I need multithreaded now
2022-02-22T01:52:26 < Laurenceb> multiple sockets at once, with stack of persistent sessions to use
2022-02-22T01:53:26 < kakium69> how does this make trains go fast?
2022-02-22T01:53:48 < kakium69> how is inverter project?
2022-02-22T01:56:27 < Laurenceb> autist simulink guy is working on invertor for now
2022-02-22T01:59:52 < kakium69> good
2022-02-22T02:00:07 < kakium69> I guess
2022-02-22T02:14:55 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/CleverName5378/status/1495627552525799424#m
2022-02-22T02:21:04 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-22T02:23:54 < kakium69> wtf is nitter
2022-02-22T02:24:30 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-22T02:25:15 < srk> like twitter but for previous generation of computers
2022-02-22T02:27:03 < srk> just a twitter frontend tho
2022-02-22T02:34:08 < kakium69> a
2022-02-22T02:34:14 < kakium69> c64?
2022-02-22T02:35:00 < kakium69> I'm finally getting the idea of c++
2022-02-22T02:35:03 < kakium69> I love it
2022-02-22T02:35:18 < kakium69> it can make everything clean
2022-02-22T02:35:42 < kakium69> by abstraction
2022-02-22T02:43:25 < kakium69> also got the idea of constexpr
2022-02-22T02:43:36 < kakium69> it wasn't there last time I did c++
2022-02-22T02:43:41 < kakium69> that was in 2009
2022-02-22T02:48:51 < kakium69> #include <limits>
2022-02-22T02:48:57 < kakium69> why doesnt this work
2022-02-22T02:49:40 < kakium69> fufuuu
2022-02-22T02:49:44 < kakium69> Laurenceb: help
2022-02-22T02:50:02 < zyp> doesn't work how?
2022-02-22T02:51:54 < kakium69> no such file or directory
2022-02-22T02:52:29 < kakium69> I made c++ project in microchip studio(atmel studio(visual studio))
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2022-02-22T03:19:02 < kakium69> hmm toolchain seems to not have limits.h
2022-02-22T03:20:21 < kakium69> for arm and avr32 there is include/c++/tr1
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2022-02-22T03:24:33 < kakium69> ah those are just headers with #include <tr1/climits>
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2022-02-22T03:25:46 < zyp> sounds like outdated shit
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2022-02-22T03:25:57 < kakium69> okay the filename is "limits"
2022-02-22T03:26:10 < kakium69> avr8 toolchain doesn't have one
2022-02-22T03:26:19 < kakium69> but isn't those like standard shit
2022-02-22T03:26:29 < kakium69> *aren't
2022-02-22T03:26:34 < kakium69> same shit for everything
2022-02-22T03:27:01 < kakium69> could I just copy one
2022-02-22T03:27:04 < kakium69> into my project
2022-02-22T03:28:22 < kakium69> version of the toolchain is 5.4.0
2022-02-22T03:29:14 < kakium69> https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/include-c-toolchain-atmel-studio-70
2022-02-22T03:29:19 < kakium69> okay okay
2022-02-22T03:30:42 < kakium69> finally answers
2022-02-22T03:30:57 < kakium69> hows life zyp?
2022-02-22T03:34:24 < kakium69> "Standard STL Is full of dynamic allocation (often considered ill-advised on emmbedded systems with little RAM) and exception handling (which isn’t implemented by  the compiler.)"
2022-02-22T03:35:47 < kakium69> such statement confirms I'm about to peek into a rabbit hole
2022-02-22T03:36:32 < kakium69> maybe I should avoid using parts that do dynamic allocation
2022-02-22T03:36:56 < kakium69> exceptions hmm.. I think even numeric_limits uses them
2022-02-22T03:47:04 < kakium69> this could work.. it checks __EXCEPTIONS
2022-02-22T03:47:40 < kakium69> damn STL is a beast
2022-02-22T03:47:43 < kakium69> like endless files
2022-02-22T03:55:16 < kakium69> hmm these files are from 1999
2022-02-22T03:55:25 < kakium69> no constexpr
2022-02-22T03:56:49 < kakium69> I just do nasty thing and write out the few things I need straight to my main.cpp
2022-02-22T04:16:32 < kakium69> or make a mini std header
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2022-02-22T12:10:40 < jadew> did you guys know youtube made a tiktok clone?
2022-02-22T12:12:39 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-22T12:12:46 < mawk> it's annoying it keeps popping up
2022-02-22T12:12:48 < jadew> it's full of tiktok trash
2022-02-22T12:12:53 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-22T12:12:56 < mawk> look https://bpa.st/JTOQ
2022-02-22T12:13:01 < mawk> I made a base32 encoder in python
2022-02-22T12:13:03 < jadew> never popped up for me, I found it by browsing reddit
2022-02-22T12:13:12 < mawk> maybe you need to use youtube on mobile
2022-02-22T12:13:18 < mawk> witness the magnificience of bitwise operations
2022-02-22T12:14:18 < jadew> looks rather long
2022-02-22T12:14:29 < jadew> but I don't know python
2022-02-22T12:14:40 < mawk> it's the perfect size
2022-02-22T12:14:44 < mawk> base conversion is a tricky topic
2022-02-22T12:14:59 < jadew> not if it's a multiple of 8
2022-02-22T12:15:07 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-22T12:15:38 < mawk> a multiple of 256 you mean
2022-02-22T12:15:44 < jadew> yeah, you're right
2022-02-22T12:15:45 < mawk> base32 means 32 bits per character
2022-02-22T12:15:48 < jadew> base 32 sounds trickier
2022-02-22T12:15:54 < qyx> youtube shorts?
2022-02-22T12:15:56 < qyx> I have seen that
2022-02-22T12:16:01 < jadew> qyx, yeah, that's the one
2022-02-22T12:16:14 < qyx> mawk: do you know there already are some?
2022-02-22T12:16:24 < jadew> mawk, base32 would be 32 digits
2022-02-22T12:16:31 < jadew> not bits
2022-02-22T12:16:31 < mawk> yeah there are 32 digits jadew 
2022-02-22T12:16:36 < mawk> and 5 bits
2022-02-22T12:16:45 < mawk> sorry I misspoke, it's not 32 bits per character
2022-02-22T12:16:48 < mawk> it's 5 bits per character
2022-02-22T12:16:50 < mawk> 32 characters total
2022-02-22T12:17:00 < mawk> the 26 letters of the alphabet and a couple of digits
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2022-02-22T12:17:10 < mawk> yes qyx but I didn't want to import any in my pristine code
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2022-02-22T12:17:27 < qyx> it is in base64 iirc
2022-02-22T12:17:31 < qyx> base64.base32
2022-02-22T12:17:37 < mawk> yeah I noticed that after I was done
2022-02-22T12:17:47 < qyx> but idk if their alphabet matches
2022-02-22T12:17:51 < qyx> there are two dialects
2022-02-22T12:17:56 < mawk> yeah it's the rfc whatever alphabet that they use, same as mine
2022-02-22T12:17:57 < qyx> the zeroMQ one and all the others one
2022-02-22T12:18:00 < mawk> lol
2022-02-22T12:18:39 < mawk> jadew: so what the code does is slice up the input data into 5 bits chunk, and encode them as a base32 character
2022-02-22T12:18:50 < mawk> and since 5 is not a multiple of 8 then you have some characters that span 2 bytes in the input
2022-02-22T12:18:55 < mawk> which is why the code looks complicated
2022-02-22T12:19:13 < jadew> yeah, makes sense
2022-02-22T12:19:26 < jadew> I wonder how short it can be made in c++
2022-02-22T12:19:47 < mawk> probably the same size, + a few more lines for all the ugly { }
2022-02-22T12:21:18 < qyx> I have seen an impl using a 40 bit buffer, adding 5 new chars when it is empty and shifting outs 8 five-bit numbers at once
2022-02-22T12:21:42 < mawk> ah nice
2022-02-22T12:22:01 < mawk> yeah that helps making the padding at the end
2022-02-22T12:22:10 < mawk> the padding is useless though we can infer it from the size
2022-02-22T12:22:23 < jadew> I'm implementing it too, to see what it takes
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2022-02-22T12:29:44 < jadew> is this ok? https://pastebin.com/RfmTHF63
2022-02-22T12:34:02 < qyx> and if the value is 100 byte long array?
2022-02-22T12:38:03 < jadew> if you want to deal with arrays, you have to specialize it
2022-02-22T12:40:47 < mawk> does it work jadew ?
2022-02-22T12:40:56 < jadew> give me some test values
2022-02-22T12:41:01 < mawk> ah but you expect value to be an integer
2022-02-22T12:41:19 < mawk> well try it with 0xAABBCCDD
2022-02-22T12:41:29 < mawk> but it will explode if the value is 100 bytes long as qyx says
2022-02-22T12:41:46 < jadew> on the phone atm, brb
2022-02-22T12:43:02 < jadew> back
2022-02-22T12:43:12 < jadew> I can make it deal with arrays too
2022-02-22T12:43:18 < jadew> let's see the number you gave me
2022-02-22T12:43:32 < jadew> 2LBNJ6T
2022-02-22T12:50:23 < qyx> oh yes it is ez for a single integer in python
2022-02-22T12:50:32 < mawk> I guess you have to align the number in some way to get the same result I get with bytes
2022-02-22T12:50:34 < qyx> maybe even a one-liner
2022-02-22T12:53:07 < jadew> ok, I'll try an array one too
2022-02-22T12:53:18 < jadew> LSB on the right, right?
2022-02-22T13:16:58 < jadew> the array one is at the bottom: https://pastebin.com/Ec669gJD
2022-02-22T13:17:27 < jadew> I was verbose in the coding style, but I think it's simpler than the python implementation
2022-02-22T13:18:22 < jadew>  uint8_t test[] = { 0xAA, 0xBB, 0xCC, 0xDD };
2022-02-22T13:18:24 < jadew>  cout << base32(0xAABBCCDD) << endl;
2022-02-22T13:18:26 < jadew>  cout << base32(test, sizeof(test)) << endl;
2022-02-22T13:18:37 < jadew> result is 2LBNJ6T for both
2022-02-22T13:21:29 < jadew> c++ > python?
2022-02-22T13:22:21 < jadew> I wish I could edit it, there's a new line on the wrong line
2022-02-22T13:22:37 < jadew> it's below value >>= 5 (it's because I copy pasted from the previous function)
2022-02-22T13:22:41 < jadew> should be above it
2022-02-22T13:23:51 < jadew> you like?
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2022-02-22T13:30:17 < jadew> https://www.reuters.com/technology/trumps-truth-social-app-launches-apple-app-store-2022-02-21/
2022-02-22T13:30:27 < jadew> Trump's the new Zukerberg
2022-02-22T13:31:31 < jadew> it's not available in my country
2022-02-22T13:32:00 < mawk> the result doesn't appear to be valid jadew 
2022-02-22T13:32:08 < mawk> you can't compute it byte by byte
2022-02-22T13:32:15 < mawk> 5 isn't a multiple of 8
2022-02-22T13:32:21 < jadew> I know
2022-02-22T13:32:25 < mawk> or a divider of 8
2022-02-22T13:32:25 < jadew> why isn't it valid?
2022-02-22T13:32:31 < jadew> what should it be?
2022-02-22T13:32:37 < mawk> I checked with the python base32 function 
2022-02-22T13:32:45 < jadew> you're using different digits tho
2022-02-22T13:32:54 < jadew> I'm using 0-9A-V
2022-02-22T13:32:58 < mawk> I use A-Z2-7
2022-02-22T13:33:01 < mawk> try with these
2022-02-22T13:33:12 < jadew> why tho?
2022-02-22T13:33:14 < mawk> it's the official alphabet in the rfc
2022-02-22T13:33:18 < jadew> is that standard?
2022-02-22T13:33:20 < jadew> ok
2022-02-22T13:33:21 < mawk> designed to minimize input error
2022-02-22T13:33:22 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-22T13:33:40 < mawk> no 0 that can be confused with a O, no 1 that can be confused with a I
2022-02-22T13:33:47 < jadew> CVLXTG5
2022-02-22T13:33:55 < jadew> is this correct?
2022-02-22T13:33:57 < mawk> and what does python say?
2022-02-22T13:34:02 < mawk> I'm not on my computer anymore
2022-02-22T13:34:08 < jadew> I can't run the python one
2022-02-22T13:34:47 < mawk> do __import__('base64').b32encode(b'\xDD\xCC\xBB\xAA')
2022-02-22T13:34:52 < mawk> in any python shell 
2022-02-22T13:34:58 < jadew> ok
2022-02-22T13:35:09 < mawk> you reversed the bytes though no?
2022-02-22T13:35:17 < mawk> maybe reverse the bytes in what I wrote
2022-02-22T13:35:38 < jadew> how do I get an interactive shell?
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2022-02-22T13:35:47 < mawk> type python3
2022-02-22T13:35:50 < mawk> in your bash
2022-02-22T13:36:11 < mawk> and try with different lengths also
2022-02-22T13:36:13 < jadew> VK54ZXI=
2022-02-22T13:36:19 < jadew> wtf is =?
2022-02-22T13:36:24 < mawk> padding
2022-02-22T13:36:33 < mawk> to end on a byte boundary
2022-02-22T13:36:46 < jadew> I'm pretty sure my algorithm is fine
2022-02-22T13:36:54 < jadew> it must be the dictionary
2022-02-22T13:37:04 < mawk> well it surely does something, but if it's not the same output it's not base32
2022-02-22T13:37:15 < mawk> when operating on bytes you can't reuse your code that works on integers
2022-02-22T13:37:23 < mawk> it has to have at least a few ugly bitwise operations
2022-02-22T13:37:37 < mawk> especially to cross the boundary between two adjacent bytes for instance 
2022-02-22T13:38:11 < jadew> mawk, you didn't read the code, it accounts for everything
2022-02-22T13:38:49 < jadew> problem is that this base32 encoding doesn't seem to be the same with base32 conversion, which is what I thought it was
2022-02-22T13:40:41 < jadew> how come 1 become AE?
2022-02-22T13:40:53 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base32
2022-02-22T13:40:59 < jadew> it says E is 4
2022-02-22T13:41:16 < jadew> my code spits out AB, which is what I would expect
2022-02-22T13:41:43 < jadew>  __import__('base64').b32encode(b'\x01');
2022-02-22T13:41:45 < jadew> b'AE======'
2022-02-22T13:42:03 < jadew> cout << base32((uint8_t)1) << endl;
2022-02-22T13:42:05 < jadew> AB
2022-02-22T13:42:24 < jadew> looks like python is broken
2022-02-22T13:43:38 < jadew> I guess the first dictionary I used was also ok, it's called the Electrologica
2022-02-22T13:45:38 < jadew> sorry, it's called Triacontakaidecimal
2022-02-22T13:46:58 < jadew> I think RFC 4648 is stupid
2022-02-22T13:47:20 < jadew> they call it base32hex
2022-02-22T13:48:04 < jadew> like... wouldn't you naturally extend bases like that?
2022-02-22T13:48:31 < jadew> it sounds to me like RFC 4648 should call its shit definition base32rfc4648
2022-02-22T13:48:52 < jadew> and release the claim on base32 meaning whatever the shit they defined it to be
2022-02-22T13:57:38 < qyx> you two are overcomplicating things
2022-02-22T13:57:59 < qyx> there is one or two dialects in wide use, there is no point doing that academically based on various sources
2022-02-22T13:58:03 < qyx> there are test vectors
2022-02-22T13:58:33 < jadew> still, I can't explain the output from python
2022-02-22T13:58:37 < jadew> how could 1 be 4?
2022-02-22T13:58:46 < qyx> I never saw any other names than base32
2022-02-22T13:58:51 < qyx> idk, it works
2022-02-22T13:58:59 < jadew> if they're following the RFC dictionary, it should be AB, like my version put out
2022-02-22T13:59:29 < qyx> https://cryptii.com/pipes/base32
2022-02-22T13:59:44 < qyx> do you mean "1"?
2022-02-22T13:59:51 < jadew> no, I mean 1
2022-02-22T13:59:53 < jadew> the number 1
2022-02-22T14:00:03 < jadew> it encodes it as AB
2022-02-22T14:00:06 < jadew> AE
2022-02-22T14:00:11 < jadew> which means 04
2022-02-22T14:00:23 < jadew> AB would be 01
2022-02-22T14:00:45 < qyx> the number 1 ascii? so a single byte 0x31?
2022-02-22T14:01:02 < jadew> no, 0x01
2022-02-22T14:01:22 < jadew> according to the dictionary in the RFC, it should be encoded as AB
2022-02-22T14:01:33 < jadew> python's implementation spits it out as AE
2022-02-22T14:01:39 < jadew> my implementation spits it out as AB
2022-02-22T14:01:58 < qyx> apparently the rfc has two encodings
2022-02-22T14:02:03 < qyx> one normal and the other one called hex
2022-02-22T14:02:06 < qyx> whatever itmeans
2022-02-22T14:02:11 < qyx> also, look at that page I pasted
2022-02-22T14:02:20 < jadew> the hex one is what I used initially
2022-02-22T14:02:44 < jadew> because I came up with it intuitively
2022-02-22T14:03:28 < jadew> I did look and my implementation spits out: KRUGKIDROVUWG2ZAMJZG653OEBTG66BANJ2W24DTEBXXMZLSEB2GQZJANRQXU6JAMRXWOLQA
2022-02-22T14:03:38 < jadew> the only difference seems to be the A at the end
2022-02-22T14:03:49 < jadew> which means 0
2022-02-22T14:04:01 < jadew> and it's instead padding in the one there
2022-02-22T14:04:34 < jadew> so definitely my implementation is correct and the python one is shit, as expected
2022-02-22T14:05:39 < jadew> side by side comparison between mine and the online version you posted:
2022-02-22T14:05:42 < jadew> KRUGKIDROVUWG2ZAMJZG653OEBTG66BANJ2W24DTEBXXMZLSEB2GQZJANRQXU6JAMRXWOLQ=
2022-02-22T14:05:44 < jadew> KRUGKIDROVUWG2ZAMJZG653OEBTG66BANJ2W24DTEBXXMZLSEB2GQZJANRQXU6JAMRXWOLQA
2022-02-22T14:07:38 < jadew> mawk, see? you can process it byte by byte too :P
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2022-02-22T14:08:34 < ventYl> hmm, i am watching FOSDEM22 recordings
2022-02-22T14:11:39 < jadew> interestingly enough, the python one spits out the same thing for that input
2022-02-22T14:11:56 < jadew> but for \x01 it spits out AE - which is wrong
2022-02-22T14:12:27 < jadew> the online one spits out AE too...
2022-02-22T14:14:08 < mawk> the last byte has to be left aligned jadew 
2022-02-22T14:14:12 < mawk> yes it's not impossible that you find a better implem
2022-02-22T14:14:31 < jadew> so if you have just the one byte, what happens with it?
2022-02-22T14:14:32 < mawk> but it's still possible to copy paste it into python and be the same amount of lines or less of less 
2022-02-22T14:14:37 < jadew> ah!
2022-02-22T14:14:40 < jadew> wait...
2022-02-22T14:14:50 < mawk> the last group of 5 bits I mean
2022-02-22T14:14:56 < mawk> it has to be left-aligned
2022-02-22T14:15:01 < jadew> so if you have [12345][123]
2022-02-22T14:15:06 < mawk> it can be 5 bits or less
2022-02-22T14:15:10 < jadew> it becomes [12345][123xx]
2022-02-22T14:15:12 < jadew> ?
2022-02-22T14:15:26 < mawk> 8*len(input) mod 5
2022-02-22T14:15:31 < jadew> that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard
2022-02-22T14:15:50 < mawk> that's how many bits you're left with at the end after you process all groups of 5 bits
2022-02-22T14:15:50 < jadew> those fuckers were fucking stoned when they wrote that RFC
2022-02-22T14:15:52 < jadew> I think you're right
2022-02-22T14:16:02 < mawk> so you left align that single group
2022-02-22T14:16:12 < mawk> so if it's 3 bits, you left shift by 2
2022-02-22T14:16:22 < mawk> so that its length is 5 bits in the end
2022-02-22T14:16:36 < mawk> and then you add = for padding until the output string length is a multiple of 8
2022-02-22T14:16:56 < mawk> but padding isn't mandatory it can be inferred from the size
2022-02-22T14:17:30 < mawk> left alignment isn't surprising, it's that way so all bits are contiguous 
2022-02-22T14:18:18 < mawk> you have (8*len(input))/5 groups of 5 bits, each is a base32 char
2022-02-22T14:18:24 < jadew> ok, I get it now and I understand the results
2022-02-22T14:18:38 < mawk> then you're left with 8*len(input) % 5 lone bits
2022-02-22T14:18:40 < jadew> I still maintain whoever wrote that RFC was stoned
2022-02-22T14:19:01 < jadew> why would you left align... it makes 0 sense
2022-02-22T14:19:17 < mawk> so all bits stay contiguous 
2022-02-22T14:19:36 < jadew> they already are
2022-02-22T14:19:59 < mawk> like if the last group is 101 and you don't left align it, it's like encoding 00101, but you want to be encoding 10100
2022-02-22T14:20:02 < jadew> and we naturally pad with however many zeroes we want, when everything is right aligned
2022-02-22T14:20:07 < mawk> so the 101 is contiguous with bits on the left
2022-02-22T14:20:10 < jadew> because that's how math works
2022-02-22T14:20:15 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-22T14:20:22 < mawk> but computer is usually little endian
2022-02-22T14:20:28 < mawk> so it's in the other direction 
2022-02-22T14:20:53 < jadew> why would you want the last group to be 10100?
2022-02-22T14:20:56 < jadew> that makes no sense
2022-02-22T14:21:19 < jadew> the moment you do that, you change its value
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2022-02-22T14:27:22 < jadew> if I add the stupid padding I get the same result
2022-02-22T14:27:28 < jadew> I'm disappointed
2022-02-22T14:30:38 < jadew> line 9 fixes this: https://pastebin.com/HXzSV2ut
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2022-02-22T14:30:56 < jadew> I almost puked in my mouth when I hit submit
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2022-02-22T14:34:52 < mawk> lol
2022-02-22T14:42:55 < qyx> jadew: it is not that stupid, because if you convert bytestream to a bitstream and cut it into 5 bit slices, you get exactly that
2022-02-22T14:43:01 < qyx> the last one is left aligned
2022-02-22T14:46:55 < jadew> only if you start cutting from the MSB
2022-02-22T14:47:04 < jadew> from a mathematical standpoint it's absolutely bonkers
2022-02-22T14:50:32 < jadew> my original algorithm(s) did actual base conversion
2022-02-22T14:50:49 < jadew> if this is about encoding stream data, than I can eat that
2022-02-22T14:51:48 < jadew> maybe...
2022-02-22T14:52:08 < jadew> I mean... if you receive data one by one, why not consider those the LSB
2022-02-22T14:52:26 < jadew> and right align the last one, as being the MSB
2022-02-22T14:52:49 < jadew> see... no matter how I look at it, they still fucked up
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2022-02-22T15:34:17 < karlp> vendor vs cadquery: https://imgur.com/a/vic5MdF
2022-02-22T15:44:52 < jadew> https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1356897969l/17191271.jpg
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2022-02-22T16:50:01 < kakium69> hello early shift
2022-02-22T16:52:25 < kakium69> is typename a type?
2022-02-22T16:52:30 < kakium69> in c++?
2022-02-22T16:52:58 < jpa-> no, it is a keyword
2022-02-22T16:53:21 < jadew> it's used for disambiguation
2022-02-22T16:53:44 < jadew> you're telling the compiler you're expecting something to be a type (when working with templates)
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2022-02-22T16:56:24 < kakium69> can I constexrp a type?
2022-02-22T16:56:53 < jadew> how could a type not be const?
2022-02-22T16:57:34 < kakium69> so if I have done stuff like #define usethistype_t uint8_t
2022-02-22T16:58:03 < jpa-> uh, use a typedef
2022-02-22T16:58:18 < kakium69> ah yes
2022-02-22T16:59:51 < mawk> why a typedef
2022-02-22T16:59:53 < mawk> it's C++
2022-02-22T16:59:54 < mawk> use "using"
2022-02-22T17:00:03 < mawk> like a pr0
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2022-02-22T17:07:34 < jadew> (NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP4hxg20-n4
2022-02-22T17:07:49 < jadew> they are considering adding this to the olympics
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2022-02-22T17:09:44 < jadew> so maybe in a year or so we'll have gold medalist strippers
2022-02-22T17:09:52 < kakium69> jadew has suddenly become sports fan
2022-02-22T17:09:58 < jadew> haha
2022-02-22T17:13:54 < jadew> oh, it has already been approved for 2024
2022-02-22T17:14:35 < jadew> ah, stupid clickbait article
2022-02-22T17:14:51 < jadew> breakdancing was approved for 2024...
2022-02-22T17:15:06 < jadew> so the olympics has officially gone downhill
2022-02-22T17:16:18 < kakium69> I wonder if audience is allowed to throw bank notes to competitors
2022-02-22T17:16:53 < jadew> is it not better to pay backstage, so they know who the money is from?
2022-02-22T17:17:09 < kakium69> then it's counted and who gets the most moneys wins gold
2022-02-22T17:17:22 < jadew> ah, I see what you mean
2022-02-22T17:17:44 < jadew> too easy to rig, and difficult to control for variables
2022-02-22T17:18:04 < kakium69> yes you could buy a win
2022-02-22T17:21:17 < BrainDamage> that's a feature, not a con
2022-02-22T17:25:03 < jadew> https://youtu.be/dihQuwrf9yQ
2022-02-22T17:25:37 < jadew> cool part at 6 minutes
2022-02-22T17:25:49 < jadew> there it is: https://youtu.be/dihQuwrf9yQ?t=359
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2022-02-22T17:29:15 < BrainDamage> jadew: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DovunOxlY1k
2022-02-22T17:29:22 < BrainDamage> old as fuck, still rocks
2022-02-22T17:29:42 < jadew> oh, I know that one
2022-02-22T17:29:47 < jadew> yeah, very nice
2022-02-22T17:30:21 < jadew> I just liked the flaming tube showing the standing waves :)
2022-02-22T17:30:33 < jadew> also this part is nice: https://youtu.be/dihQuwrf9yQ?t=659
2022-02-22T17:30:40 < kakium69> bell labs and at&t made a modern day
2022-02-22T17:30:58 < jadew> yeah, they're probably making the modern day of tomorrow still
2022-02-22T17:31:26 < kakium69> idk
2022-02-22T17:31:33 < jadew> as far as I know, they're still in the business of making interesting things
2022-02-22T17:31:44 < jadew> and they have lots of secret knowledge
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2022-02-22T17:32:13 < kakium69> well they are into wiretapping for sure
2022-02-22T17:32:33 < englishman> pulsejet is the best jet
2022-02-22T17:33:26 < kakium69> RPDE is the best jet
2022-02-22T17:35:05 < kakium69> rotating pulse detonation engine - like pulse detonation engine but with constant detonation front(s) travelling in circle
2022-02-22T17:37:08 < BrainDamage> pulsejets have no moving parts
2022-02-22T17:37:13 < BrainDamage> and are loud as fuck
2022-02-22T17:37:32 < BrainDamage> and you can even make a pulsejet that transitions to ramjet as airspeed increases
2022-02-22T17:37:34 < jadew> how do they work?
2022-02-22T17:37:39 < BrainDamage> resonance
2022-02-22T17:37:46 < jadew> interesting
2022-02-22T17:38:08 < BrainDamage> you have the combustion aligned with the pressure wave
2022-02-22T17:38:20 < BrainDamage> so that you get influx of oxygen, fuel and heat combined
2022-02-22T17:38:30 < BrainDamage> which make the fuel detonate
2022-02-22T17:38:56 < BrainDamage> they can be very efficient, but they are loud as fuck
2022-02-22T17:39:28 < BrainDamage> v1 rockets were valved pulsejets
2022-02-22T17:40:43 < BrainDamage> sorry, to be clear: valved pulsejets are efficient, valveless not
2022-02-22T17:40:57 < BrainDamage> but it's 1 valve for a whole engine
2022-02-22T17:43:44 < sauce> emdrive is just a vacuum vuvuzela
2022-02-22T17:43:53 < jadew> lol
2022-02-22T17:44:13 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_Eh0J_4_s RDE
2022-02-22T17:52:17 < englishman> i have a hobbyking pulsejet i never got to ignite :/
2022-02-22T17:52:22 < englishman> need a leafblower or something
2022-02-22T17:54:10 < kakium69> haven't bought anything from hobbyking for like 10years
2022-02-22T17:54:37 < kakium69> used to get ARF kits for like 80eur
2022-02-22T17:54:49 < englishman> yes same
2022-02-22T17:54:55 < englishman> i think that jet was one of the last things i purchased
2022-02-22T17:55:06 < englishman> still have a bixler or two around here somewhere
2022-02-22T17:55:13 < kakium69> now some basic ARF kit is 200eur or so
2022-02-22T17:55:22 < kakium69> batteries got harder to get
2022-02-22T17:55:45 < kakium69> needed separate order from NL and so much non-stock stuff
2022-02-22T17:55:58 < englishman> whats wrong with that https://hobbyking.com/en_us/h-king-bixler-1-1-epo-1400mm-glider-pnf-v2.html
2022-02-22T17:56:45 < englishman> i guess shipping will be 60eur right
2022-02-22T17:57:13 < kakium69> I have trouble opening that link
2022-02-22T17:57:19 < kakium69> I also have a bixler
2022-02-22T17:59:22 < kakium69> englishman: it appears to be free shipping
2022-02-22T17:59:26 < englishman> nice
2022-02-22T18:00:05 < kakium69> from NL warehouse
2022-02-22T18:00:56 < kakium69> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/h-king-bixler-1-1-replacement-fiberglass-spar.html I think I need this
2022-02-22T18:01:35 < englishman> you can get carbon tubes at local hobbyshoppes, i know i've replaced my dixler spar at least once
2022-02-22T18:02:48 < kakium69> such a hassle
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2022-02-22T18:03:42 < kakium69> it's 60km from here and the hobby section has been dying off for ages
2022-02-22T18:03:52 < kakium69> bought my first plane from there though
2022-02-22T18:04:12 < kakium69> it was delta winged edf fiberglass/balsa
2022-02-22T18:04:27 < kakium69> it went like way fast
2022-02-22T18:04:55 < kakium69> like too fast ^ 2
2022-02-22T18:05:22 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's kinda weird, china gave a strong boost to hobby community at first, but then I guess the widespread availability ready made kits made people lose the enjoyment in the hobby
2022-02-22T18:05:54 < englishman> also it became illegal for a 5 year old to fly a stupid foam plane in a park below tree level
2022-02-22T18:06:09 < englishman> punishable with $10k fine
2022-02-22T18:06:21 < englishman> thanks, china
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2022-02-22T18:07:33 < BrainDamage> true
2022-02-22T18:08:01 < BrainDamage> also people were aware of lithium battery fires, but then the legislation went from too lax to too strict
2022-02-22T18:10:27 < kakium69> how to start rc-plane hobby: get the fastest thing possible, setup rates and expos during first flight
2022-02-22T18:10:53 < kakium69> crash hard
2022-02-22T18:11:47 < kakium69> I still cannot understand how 400g plane can displace kilograms of soil
2022-02-22T18:12:26 < kakium69> and basically survive
2022-02-22T18:13:05 < kakium69> made a new nose from foam though
2022-02-22T18:14:16 < zyp> that's probably exactly why it survived, energy went into throwing soil rather than crushing plane
2022-02-22T18:15:18 < zyp> energy of the plane is the same regardless of what you hit, try with solid concrete instead and it'll fare worse
2022-02-22T18:23:46 < bitmask> hi ppl
2022-02-22T18:24:55 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/inside-project-tinman-pelotons-plan-to-conceal-rust-in-its-exercise-bikes/
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2022-02-22T18:55:33 < englishman> nice
2022-02-22T18:56:13 < englishman> related to horrible execs https://www.blackwellscap.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/BW_Peloton_Presentation_Feb072022.pdf
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2022-02-22T19:20:08 < jadew> in fairness, all stocks are going down
2022-02-22T19:20:24 < jadew> we reached the top of the hill
2022-02-22T19:21:43 < Steffanx> Putain.
2022-02-22T19:22:04 < b-rex> poutine
2022-02-22T19:22:25 < b-rex> poutine pro-v. good shampoo. i'd use it if i still had hair.
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2022-02-22T21:56:39 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/PrinceVogel/status/1495558164544200704#m
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2022-02-22T22:09:55 < kakium69> Canada is the testing ground
2022-02-22T22:10:08 < kakium69> how do I make poutine englishman?
2022-02-22T22:11:42 < englishman> Do you have fresh cheese curds available?
2022-02-22T22:11:54 < Xogium> *the* cheese
2022-02-22T22:12:28 < Xogium> if there's not that cheese in the poutine, then it isn't poutine
2022-02-22T22:13:15 < Xogium> oh and never store it in the fridge if you can help it, makes the squeak squeak stop :(
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2022-02-22T22:16:20 < Xogium> there's one place in france where they make real poutine and it tastes exactly like in canada
2022-02-22T22:16:46 < Xogium> the guy is canadian and knows how to make his own cheese for it
2022-02-22T22:21:02 < kakium69> englishman: cottage cheese?
2022-02-22T22:21:05 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-22T22:21:08 < englishman> no
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2022-02-22T22:21:14 < englishman> nonono
2022-02-22T22:22:42 < Xogium> does canada even export that cheese ?
2022-02-22T22:23:20 < Xogium> I figure it isn't fresh anymore when it arrives whereever… I mean they probably have to keep it cool or it would spoil
2022-02-22T22:23:31 < Xogium> which takes half of the fun away, no squeaks :(
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2022-02-22T22:52:58 < kakium69> englishman: is it squeky cheese when you bite it raw?
2022-02-22T22:53:14 < kakium69> but turns into like liquid when heated?
2022-02-22T22:54:14 < kakium69> leipäjuusto is baked curdled cheese
2022-02-22T22:54:53 < kakium69> is it feta?
2022-02-22T22:56:28 < kakium69> I googled in finnish how to make poutine but it just says to butt chease on it
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2022-02-22T22:56:33 < kakium69> cheese
2022-02-22T22:57:00 < kakium69> heated normal cheese turns hard and dry so no
2022-02-22T23:03:57 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-02-22T23:06:44 < Steffanx> No way. Or did you mean grilled or something?
2022-02-22T23:08:10 < kakium69> just baked
2022-02-22T23:08:24 < kakium69> or grilled in microwave
2022-02-22T23:08:58 < Xogium> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_curd
2022-02-22T23:10:12 < kakium69> there might be something in the same shelf that has mozzarella
2022-02-22T23:10:38 < kakium69> never had closer look of what different things there are
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2022-02-22T23:18:48 < kakium69> how do I get number of values that type can has?
2022-02-22T23:18:56 < kakium69> uint8_t being 256
2022-02-22T23:19:36 < zyp> in what sense?
2022-02-22T23:20:07 < kakium69> I need to accumulate timer overflows into period and types have been set in by template
2022-02-22T23:20:31 < qyx> UINT8_MAX + 1?
2022-02-22T23:20:37 < kakium69> template
2022-02-22T23:20:48 < kakium69> but yes
2022-02-22T23:20:49 < karlp> usbids fialing me again.  reporting my ch582m dev board as a "248a:8367 Maxxter Telink Wireless Receiver"
2022-02-22T23:20:51 < karlp> great one...
2022-02-22T23:21:13 < kakium69> std::numeric_limits<uint8_t>::max()+1
2022-02-22T23:21:17 < qyx> where did you get ch-something?
2022-02-22T23:21:26 < karlp> lcsc
2022-02-22T23:21:41 < karlp> this is a "boring" cortex-m with bluetooth I thought I'd give myself more projects with...
2022-02-22T23:21:46 < zyp> kakium69, any reason you can't just do that?
2022-02-22T23:21:55 < kakium69> I do that
2022-02-22T23:22:10 < zyp> so what's the issue?
2022-02-22T23:22:12 < kakium69> and that is why I asked.. answer was too simple
2022-02-22T23:22:47 < kakium69> just a stupid question - continue
2022-02-22T23:23:37 < zyp> the other obvious method would be something like 1 << (sizeof(T) * 8), which only works for unsigned types
2022-02-22T23:25:17 < kakium69> yeas I was about to do something like that but I asked instead
2022-02-22T23:25:49 < zyp> karlp, have you done anything about getting support into laks yet?
2022-02-22T23:26:07 < zyp> I ordered a ch569 devboard the other day that I'm intending to add support for
2022-02-22T23:26:40 < karlp> I pasted a bunch of stuff into one tree, one sec
2022-02-22T23:27:41 < zyp> it'll be interesting to see how much harder usb3 is to bring up than usb2 :)
2022-02-22T23:28:06 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/tree/ch58x has two commits for wch and riscv
2022-02-22T23:28:17 < karlp> and yah, this is one of the riscv ones after all
2022-02-22T23:28:24 < karlp> despite having the "swd" labels on the board
2022-02-22T23:28:38 < karlp> I thought I might have chicked out and gotten one of them instead.
2022-02-22T23:29:40 < zyp> «WCH riscv v3 or v4 core»
2022-02-22T23:30:00 < zyp> what's that?
2022-02-22T23:30:03 < mawk> isn't swd IP of arm?
2022-02-22T23:30:07 < zyp> yep
2022-02-22T23:30:17 < zyp> hence despite
2022-02-22T23:30:54 < karlp> this one is v4 from teh sheets
2022-02-22T23:31:06 < zyp> what does v4 refer to?
2022-02-22T23:31:07 < karlp> iirc, I only bought dev boards for v4 cores,
2022-02-22T23:31:15 < karlp> it's the (shitty) name of their own riscv core.
2022-02-22T23:31:20 < zyp> ah
2022-02-22T23:31:32 < zyp> any idea what ch569 got?
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2022-02-22T23:31:52 < karlp> I could go look it up for you, but I wasn't really looking at the usb3 stuff :)
2022-02-22T23:33:15 < karlp> looks like 569 has the v3a?
2022-02-22T23:33:46 < zyp> ah, yeah, datasheet says something about «RISC-V3A»
2022-02-22T23:34:00 < karlp> yeah, thats how I've been reading it.
2022-02-22T23:34:09 < zyp> also got PFIC, which at first glance looks like another NVIC clone
2022-02-22T23:34:48 < karlp> yah, now that I'm not just connecting an stlink to this board it might go back in the box tonight, I have 20 other windows open anway, was just trying to force myself to do "not work" for a change
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2022-02-22T23:35:34 < karlp> but I have a gd32vf103c-start board too, which apparently has a "gdlink" which should be useful?
2022-02-22T23:36:12 < zyp> IIRC I used a ft232h breakout with openocd to program the gd32v
2022-02-22T23:36:19 < karlp> yeah, I don't hvae one of them.
2022-02-22T23:36:40 < karlp> I theoretically have an old jlink somewhere, and a couple of jlink-obs on silabs gear with 1.27mm headers
2022-02-22T23:36:44 < zyp> but blackmagic supposedly also got some risc-v support now that I haven't found time to test yet
2022-02-22T23:37:46 < karlp> gdlink turns up as just cmsis-dap, so that's probabyl good enough if I can get the pins off
2022-02-22T23:39:06 < karlp> gah, opening up netbeans to look at the laks riscv shit I was hacking is just painful memories of stm32wb :)
2022-02-22T23:39:13 < zyp> haha
2022-02-22T23:56:57 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/LKjEzXg 
2022-02-22T23:58:14 < machinehum> Wow nice
2022-02-22T23:58:51 < Mangy_Dog> wish kicad could render out like that :d
2022-02-22T23:59:06 < machinehum> What was that from?
2022-02-22T23:59:07 < Mangy_Dog> was a pain having to setup the whole scene in max and rework all the materials and make fake solder
2022-02-22T23:59:21 < machinehum> ph 3dsmax?
2022-02-22T23:59:24 < machinehum> oh*
2022-02-22T23:59:32 < Mangy_Dog> yep
2022-02-22T23:59:44 < machinehum> Can blender render like that?
2022-02-22T23:59:56 < Mangy_Dog> pretty much
--- Day changed Wed Feb 23 2022
2022-02-23T00:00:15 < Mangy_Dog> vray had a slightly better rendering systme
2022-02-23T00:00:22 < Mangy_Dog> but blender is pretty damn good
2022-02-23T00:02:10 < mawk> what are you blending
2022-02-23T00:02:16 < kakium69> how should I pass board level functions to class that does higher level stuff?
2022-02-23T00:04:23 < Mangy_Dog> its a rgbw studio light project
2022-02-23T00:04:24 < Mangy_Dog> 27w peak
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2022-02-23T00:49:08  * karlp personally wishes people would stop trying to get kicad to do better for photo render bullshit and more to support proper mcad.
2022-02-23T00:49:22 < karlp> steps as first class citizens instead of fucking vrml files would be a fucking great start.
2022-02-23T00:49:46 < karlp> but that's still getting refused "because vrml contains materials so it's better for rendering!"
2022-02-23T00:50:35 < machinehum> lol
2022-02-23T00:50:43 < machinehum> Yeah fuck vrml
2022-02-23T00:50:54 < zyp> I prefer fabbing pcbs over rendering them
2022-02-23T00:50:54 < machinehum> It's super compatable with nothing
2022-02-23T00:51:44 < karlp> zyp: correct!
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2022-02-23T01:23:54 < kakium69> good code pastebin?
2022-02-23T01:24:03 < kakium69> I mean the bin is good
2022-02-23T01:24:07 < kakium69> not the code
2022-02-23T01:24:34 < zyp> huh?
2022-02-23T01:25:24 < kakium69> were to paste codes for view
2022-02-23T01:25:27 < kakium69> where
2022-02-23T01:25:44 < zyp> you mean like https://paste.jvnv.net/ ?
2022-02-23T01:25:57 < zyp> or the code behind it?
2022-02-23T01:26:21 < kakium69> like that
2022-02-23T01:26:21 < zyp> in the latter case: https://cgit.jvnv.net/pastepy/
2022-02-23T01:27:33 < kakium69> does it expire pastes?
2022-02-23T01:27:38 < zyp> no
2022-02-23T01:30:22 < kakium69> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cn6px what do you think of my timer capture service?
2022-02-23T01:30:54 < zyp> that I hate your formatting :p
2022-02-23T01:31:09 < kakium69> okay that is something
2022-02-23T01:31:15 < kakium69> one thing I wanted to hear
2022-02-23T01:31:21 < kakium69> I just "invented" it
2022-02-23T01:31:30 < kakium69> like right before pasting
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2022-02-23T01:33:39 < kakium69> do you have more comments?
2022-02-23T01:34:37 < zyp> I think I might have preferred using std::chrono types
2022-02-23T01:35:56 < kakium69> this chip has 2kilos of flash
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2022-02-23T01:37:20 < zyp> also, I'm not sure what the whole point of this code is, can you give an example?
2022-02-23T01:37:52 < kakium69> it's just calculates and stores periods between timer captures
2022-02-23T01:38:04 < kakium69> into array
2022-02-23T01:38:19 < zyp> also, the use of static variables is awful
2022-02-23T01:38:27 < kakium69> how so?
2022-02-23T01:39:28 < kakium69> scold me
2022-02-23T01:40:26 < zyp> well, you spend a lot of effort templating this thing to make it reusable, and then you keep state in static vars which means you only have one set of state
2022-02-23T01:41:48 < zyp> the reasonable solution would be to make it a class that stores state in member vars so you can have multiple instances
2022-02-23T01:42:12 < zyp> if it's written to inline, the code will reduce to the same anyway
2022-02-23T01:42:48 < kakium69> if I need multiple instances I make just another instance of the whole "motorspeed"
2022-02-23T01:43:43 < zyp> the whole what?
2022-02-23T01:43:48 < kakium69> I have not created the class yet though
2022-02-23T01:44:57 < kakium69> it should be a class that has stuff for controlling rpm of a motor
2022-02-23T01:45:35 < zyp> anyway, the point stands in any case, in C++ you generally don't want static function variables except for some rare special cases
2022-02-23T01:46:08 < kakium69> okay
2022-02-23T01:46:51 < kakium69> what do you think of naming conventions?
2022-02-23T01:47:31 < zyp> dunno
2022-02-23T01:47:57 < kakium69> good
2022-02-23T01:48:05 < kakium69> what are the special cases for static variables?
2022-02-23T01:48:18 < zyp> I think you're invoking blahblah::max() too many times, I'd calculate it once and store it in a variable
2022-02-23T01:48:31 < kakium69> true
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2022-02-23T01:48:44 < kakium69> it doesn't change the binary size
2022-02-23T01:48:48 < zyp> first one that comes to mind is singleton creation, but singletons in general are often discouraged
2022-02-23T01:49:09 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-23T01:49:43 < zyp> hmm, I think that can also be a static member var, so maybe not that even
2022-02-23T01:50:07 < kakium69> so it's nono
2022-02-23T01:50:52 < zyp> yeah, static function variables are effectively globals hidden somewhere in a function namespace
2022-02-23T01:51:46 < zyp> and while embedded code tends to use a lot of globals to avoid heap use, it's still good to make it explicit
2022-02-23T01:52:01 < kakium69> okay
2022-02-23T01:52:10 < zyp> on pc software, you generally avoid globals
2022-02-23T01:52:42 < kakium69> I have done a lot of globals
2022-02-23T01:52:44 < kakium69> a lot
2022-02-23T01:52:57 < zyp> completely reasonable on embedded
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2022-02-23T01:53:34 < kakium69> and when doing C
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2022-02-23T01:54:49 < kakium69> how do I make compile-time error out of template typename parameter not being integer or one integer type being larger than another type? can you point me to direction?
2022-02-23T01:55:34 < kakium69> brb>
2022-02-23T01:55:37 < zyp> static_assert(sizeof(blah) < sizeof(cock));
2022-02-23T01:56:13 < zyp> and probably some trait shit for integer
2022-02-23T01:56:51 < kakium69> damn
2022-02-23T01:56:59 < zyp> or there's probably a concept for it
2022-02-23T01:57:03 < kakium69> I like c++ very much now
2022-02-23T01:58:06 < kakium69> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/numeric_limits/is_integer
2022-02-23T01:58:17 < kakium69> this should do?
2022-02-23T01:58:31 < zyp> probably
2022-02-23T01:58:48 < kakium69> just ! that
2022-02-23T01:59:26 < zyp> this stuff is cooler: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/constraints
2022-02-23T01:59:34 < zyp> but it's new enough I haven't used it much yet
2022-02-23T02:00:07 < kakium69> that's like borderline supported features
2022-02-23T02:00:10 < zyp> but you could effectively make an IntegerType concept and just have the template argument only accept that
2022-02-23T02:00:22 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-23T02:01:00 < kakium69> I'm thinking if avr gcc supports c++11
2022-02-23T02:01:14 < zyp> the problem with C++20 is that once you've started getting used to it, it gets annoying to write code that has to build with older compilers
2022-02-23T02:01:21 < zyp> is it gcc10 or newer?
2022-02-23T02:01:28 < kakium69> no
2022-02-23T02:01:28 < zyp> C++20 support came in gcc10
2022-02-23T02:01:34 < kakium69> it's 5.4
2022-02-23T02:01:38 < kakium69> 5.4.0
2022-02-23T02:02:12 < zyp> the stuff I'm currently doing at work is using an older yocto distribution with a gcc that supports C++17 as the newest
2022-02-23T02:03:02 < kakium69> 5.4.0 is like 2016?
2022-02-23T02:03:21 < zyp> and I keep finding myself missing simple but super useful stuff like std::span
2022-02-23T02:03:22 < kakium69> so you must go back to stone age?
2022-02-23T02:04:00 < kakium69> idk how people even used c++ before c++11
2022-02-23T02:04:49 < zyp> like, I had a function that created a std::vector and passed that into another function that would fill it with some data
2022-02-23T02:06:16 < zyp> and then I added caching of the generated data, moving ownership of the buffer from the calling function to the generator
2022-02-23T02:07:34 < kakium69> moving ownerships hmm
2022-02-23T02:07:43 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-23T02:07:54 < kakium69> I don't even know what that means
2022-02-23T02:08:21 < zyp> the old generating function was someting like status_t generate(std::vector<uint8_t>& buffer)
2022-02-23T02:08:30 < zyp> so it only got a buffer reference, and filled it
2022-02-23T02:09:27 < kakium69> okay
2022-02-23T02:09:41 < zyp> but for it to be able to cache the data it needed to store the buffer, not just get a reference
2022-02-23T02:10:07 < kakium69> k
2022-02-23T02:10:16 < zyp> and so to avoid copying, it should instead return a reference to the buffer, but return was already occupied by status_t
2022-02-23T02:11:03 < zyp> so I ended up changing the API to status_t generate(const std::vector<uint8_t>** ppBuffer);
2022-02-23T02:11:53 < kakium69> was that the final solution?
2022-02-23T02:12:01 < zyp> that.
2022-02-23T02:13:18 < kakium69> that is the stone age way?
2022-02-23T02:13:21 < zyp> but yeah, the point is that with C++20 I could have made it status_t generate(std::span<uint8_t>& buffer) instead
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2022-02-23T02:16:14 < kakium69> if I only knew
2022-02-23T02:16:21 < kakium69> thanks for the tips zyp
2022-02-23T02:17:08 < zyp> the thing is that a std::vector is a container, which means that copying it copies the entire contents
2022-02-23T02:17:28 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-23T02:17:33 < kakium69> and span is more like a pointer
2022-02-23T02:17:49 < kakium69> or set of pointers and stuffs
2022-02-23T02:17:49 < zyp> yeah a std::span is effectively just a wrapper for a pointer and a size
2022-02-23T02:18:41 < zyp> the size can be part of the type, in which case it's only a pointer wrapped in a fancy type
2022-02-23T02:19:12 < zyp> in either case it's small and cheap to pass around
2022-02-23T02:20:40 < kakium69> hmm so c++20 has thing that can hold all type, pointer and size
2022-02-23T02:20:51 < zyp> there's also https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/ranges in the same vein but which I haven't used at all
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2022-02-23T02:52:08 < Laurenceb> Z is Cryllic for Q
2022-02-23T02:52:16 < Laurenceb> thats what the Russians are marking
2022-02-23T02:53:12 < kakium69> where?
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2022-02-23T07:37:14 < Xogium> yikes
2022-02-23T07:37:18 < Xogium> https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete
2022-02-23T07:37:29 < Xogium> screw tech, for once
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2022-02-23T07:52:26 < Xogium> I'm sure not gonna trust 'em to mess about in my brain given that lol
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2022-02-23T09:31:26 < mawk> you can repair it yourself Xogium don't worry
2022-02-23T09:33:09 < mawk> why are you up at 6 am
2022-02-23T09:33:48 < Xogium> mawk: sleep pattern going rogue
2022-02-23T09:34:04 < mawk> bad Xogium 
2022-02-23T09:34:16 < Xogium> more like bad brain
2022-02-23T09:34:19 < Xogium> :p
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2022-02-23T12:44:50 < rajkosto> how do i interface with T24C64A eeprom
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2022-02-23T12:56:25 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
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2022-02-23T14:05:10 < mawk> I made a DIY lithium-ion charger with a bench power supply and some electrical tape
2022-02-23T14:05:12 < mawk> safety first
2022-02-23T14:05:22 < mawk> I put a current limit, nothing bad should happen
2022-02-23T14:07:18 < BrainDamage> yep, current limit at low voltages and voltage limit nearing full charge
2022-02-23T14:07:28 < BrainDamage> just make sure the values are right
2022-02-23T14:07:42 < mawk> it's a 2S battery pack, so I put it at constant voltage of 8.4V
2022-02-23T14:07:48 < mawk> and a current limit of 300mA
2022-02-23T14:07:56 < mawk> it's charging at 12mA currently
2022-02-23T14:15:54 < qyx> I am charging too
2022-02-23T14:15:58 < qyx> PV1 0.33 V / 0.00 A, PV2 16.89 V / 0.20 A, BAT 3.66 V / 0.732 A, NTC1 4093.0, NTC2 4095.0
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2022-02-23T17:14:21 < mawk> how to make openocd enable this PaulFertser Linux GPIO bitbang through libgpiod     no
2022-02-23T17:14:36 < mawk> ah maybe with libgpiod-dev
2022-02-23T17:15:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: right, you need the .pc file for it
2022-02-23T17:15:45 < mawk> and I also passed --enable-bcm2835gpio but it's not in the listing after I run configure
2022-02-23T17:15:47 < mawk> I suppose it's still enabled
2022-02-23T17:16:08 < mawk> I'll figure it out after build
2022-02-23T17:18:27 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/XP0R0xA
2022-02-23T17:19:02 < karlp> bcm2835gpio is via raw mem writes, no libgpiod
2022-02-23T17:24:16 < mawk> emoji icons
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2022-02-23T18:53:38 < qyx> openocd gpio bitbang without bcm shit and libgpiod flashes at about 1 kB/s
2022-02-23T18:53:47 < qyx> I tried that on f1c100s
2022-02-23T18:54:40 < qyx> not sure if it is linux fault or f1c100s's though
2022-02-23T19:38:33 < mawk> how is segger embedded studio
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2022-02-23T22:03:47 < karlp> qyx: that sounds like whatever was the flash impl for f1c100s?
2022-02-23T22:04:05 < karlp> I didn't know oocd had any direct support for the f1cx00 shits?
2022-02-23T22:04:29 < karlp> I mean, the libgpiod isn't super fast, but iirc, it's better than 1kB/sec on stm32s at least?
2022-02-23T22:14:54 < qyx> I mean f1c100s as a master running openocd, stm32 was the target
2022-02-23T22:16:10 < qyx> I was lazy to try enabling/adding libgpiod in buildroot
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2022-02-23T22:17:48 < kakium69> evening pump
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2022-02-23T23:09:04 < kakium69> catphish: progress?
2022-02-23T23:12:22 < Laurenceb> the thot
2022-02-23T23:12:24 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKLS6QM6Xco
2022-02-23T23:12:25 < Laurenceb> also
2022-02-23T23:12:30 < Laurenceb> >appointed person
2022-02-23T23:12:52 < Laurenceb> keekk this is almost as bad as "licensed door supervisor"
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2022-02-23T23:14:26 < catphish> kakium69: i'll tell you if you come back
2022-02-23T23:14:45 < Laurenceb> ywlts PhD door supervisor
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2022-02-23T23:41:14 < kakium69> it's good idea to not use diesel for just lifting things up and down
2022-02-23T23:42:37 < kakium69> are you my c++ mentor tonight Laurenceb?
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2022-02-23T23:44:33 < Steffanx> Just Boost it, kakium69 
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2022-02-23T23:46:45 < kakium6933> wow.. my confuser bluescreened
2022-02-23T23:46:52 < kakium6933> it's been a while
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2022-02-23T23:48:59 < kakium6933> FltMgr.sys
2022-02-23T23:49:04 -!- kakium6933 is now known as kakium69
2022-02-23T23:49:15 < kakium69> lets see if that destroyed my project
2022-02-23T23:52:34 < kakium69> no
2022-02-23T23:52:38 < kakium69> project is there
--- Day changed Thu Feb 24 2022
2022-02-24T00:01:39 < HelloShitty> Hi. I'm learning about STM32L412 ADC block and how to program it. When looking in its alternate functions, I can only find pins ADC1_IN5, ADC1_IN6 and so on. Apparently there are no ADC1_IN1, ADC1_IN2, ..., ADC1_IN4. Why is this? Why don't people start counting from 1 (or maybe 0)?
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2022-02-24T00:20:12 < mawk> I guess other models have more channels HelloShitty 
2022-02-24T00:20:26 < mawk> or other packages
2022-02-24T00:26:21 < specing> yes
2022-02-24T00:26:26 < specing> good explanation
2022-02-24T00:36:04 < qyx> HelloShitty: are you sure? what's on PA0?
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2022-02-24T00:55:20 < HelloShitty> Sorry, I missed the tags
2022-02-24T00:55:25 < HelloShitty> let me chack for PA0
2022-02-24T00:56:47 < HelloShitty> qyx: on PA0 it's ADC1_IN5
2022-02-24T01:01:41 < HelloShitty> sleep time
2022-02-24T01:03:30 < qyx> hm, maybe they are shifted for some reason
2022-02-24T01:03:41 < qyx> usually PA0 is the first one
2022-02-24T01:04:02 < qyx> are you sure there is no ADC12_PA0, ADC12_PA1, etc?
2022-02-24T01:04:37 < qyx> yes there is at PC0, 1, 2, 3...
2022-02-24T01:04:44 < qyx> there are your missing inputs
2022-02-24T01:04:56 < qyx> ADC12 means the input is shared between ADC1 and ADC2
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2022-02-24T01:49:55 < kakium69> instead of making const variables out of type maximums
2022-02-24T01:50:38 < kakium69> I could use "namespace"
2022-02-24T01:50:52 < kakium69> making them calls shorter
2022-02-24T01:51:35 < kakium69> namespace or using namespace or using
2022-02-24T01:51:38 < kakium69> not sure
2022-02-24T02:02:22 < machinehum> How would something like this work? https://www.robotshop.com/ca/en/arducam-8mp-synchronized-stereo-camera-bundle-kit-for-raspberry-pi.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA09eQBhCxARIsAAYRiyk58XKuXFtpCMcrvzolA_htOKfHuPtMx8LxwlYJU-8uY5nLG4viAmkaAj_3EALw_wcB
2022-02-24T02:02:35 < machinehum> It's getting two cameras into one bus
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2022-02-24T02:10:17 < bitmask> well then... went out to get a concrete paver for my printer 5 hours ago and just got home, wasnt expecting that
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2022-02-24T02:32:59 < BrainDamage> machinehum: you interleave the frames
2022-02-24T02:33:22 < BrainDamage> frame 1 camera A, frame 2 camera B, frame 3 camera A, etc
2022-02-24T02:34:06 < machinehum> So that Ic with a sticker on top is an FPGA acting as a a mipi device
2022-02-24T02:34:27 < machinehum> and reading the data from the cameras and doing the interleaving?
2022-02-24T02:34:37 < machinehum> I guess that makes sense
2022-02-24T02:35:28 < machinehum> There's no chips anywhere so I'm just scrapping this project anyways
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2022-02-24T02:44:56 < qyx> mipi csi itself supports 4 independent streams afaik
2022-02-24T02:46:19 < qyx> arduchip what the hell
2022-02-24T02:46:34  * qyx making a qyxchip qc001
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2022-02-24T08:54:05 < jpa-> russia attacks
2022-02-24T08:54:07 -!- potato [~potato@216.197.220.176] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-24T08:54:25 < jpa-> now the world will have a reason to be suspicious of them for another 50 years
2022-02-24T08:55:35 < potato> anybody has played around with bluenrg here?
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2022-02-24T10:56:11 < zyp> BrainDamage, you could also concatenate the frames, i.e. make one frame twice the width from two input frames
2022-02-24T11:05:31 < Steffanx> Lol at the product photo. When you take product photos at least fit the flat cable properly or close the connector properly...
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2022-02-24T11:44:00 < karlp> hrm, so, my phone died overnight.  I seem to remember turninf off the screen off timeout, so maybe that.
2022-02-24T11:44:27 < karlp> but it's not turning on anymore.  I had it on it's normal charger for "ages" and then the one it actually came with, easily 40 minutes on each.
2022-02-24T11:45:02 < karlp> Ive now plugged in a usb monitor, and it was "charging" for a while at ~900ma, but it's slowly tapering off, was down to 600mA, now down to ~440mA
2022-02-24T11:45:40 < karlp> it still says it's charged in 140mAh so far, plus whatver would have gone in earlier, but it's still not responding to buttons at all...
2022-02-24T11:46:46 < Xogium> doesn,t sound too good
2022-02-24T11:46:56 < mawk> is it still on maybe karlp ?
2022-02-24T11:46:59 < mawk> and just frozen
2022-02-24T11:47:06 < mawk> how long have you tried to hold the power button
2022-02-24T11:47:23 < karlp> ahhha
2022-02-24T11:47:24 < karlp> not enough
2022-02-24T11:47:28 < karlp> I thought like 5-10 was enough
2022-02-24T11:47:33 < karlp> it's turning on now with like 20secs
2022-02-24T11:47:37 < mawk> ah nice
2022-02-24T11:47:40 < karlp> and charge rate has gone up
2022-02-24T11:47:42 < karlp> thanks!
2022-02-24T11:48:05 < karlp> yeah, now it's out of dead battery mode it's back to 1.2A charging too
2022-02-24T11:48:09 < karlp> whee thanks mawk
2022-02-24T11:48:21 < Xogium> mine tells you it is powering up with a short vibration
2022-02-24T11:48:23 < karlp> I must havebeen like a second short or something earlier
2022-02-24T11:48:37 < karlp> yeah, this one too, I just didn't hold it _quite_ long enough
2022-02-24T11:48:52 < mawk> good that there is this long press override to restart, you can't remove the battery easily nowadays
2022-02-24T11:48:59 < karlp> heh, and yeah, it charged to 99% while it ws off on the cahrges earlier :)
2022-02-24T11:51:26 < Xogium> that explains the trickling charge speed
2022-02-24T11:51:39 < karlp> yeah :)
2022-02-24T11:51:44 < karlp> easy to understand in hindsight  :)
2022-02-24T11:52:42 < karlp> in other news, the only thing I've noticed switching from wayland back to xorg to keep simplicitity studio happy, is that screens take _quite a bit_ longer to return after suspend
2022-02-24T11:54:30 < ventYl> karlp: I see that in recent years this "hold power button for 5 seconds" was stretched ridiculously long even for PCs
2022-02-24T11:54:55 < Xogium> hm
2022-02-24T11:54:57 < ventYl> last week my friend's laptop windows decided to not start and I had to hold power button for like 30 seconds to force and unexpected shutdown
2022-02-24T11:55:07 < karlp> glad I'm not the only one then :|
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2022-02-24T12:22:41 < karlp> imagine making the datasheet for your product, talking about how it's low pwoer, bluetooth, and just not including a single power figure in the promo sheet.
2022-02-24T12:23:03 < karlp> and then you look in the mirror and see that your name is renesas, and it all becomes clear again.
2022-02-24T12:24:48 < karlp> in the same dream you launch a whole new product line with both m4 and m33 parts in the same family, at the same clock speed,
2022-02-24T12:24:59 < karlp> because, yes, that's absolutey something your customers are going to choose on
2022-02-24T12:25:10 < Xogium> avoid renesas, noted
2022-02-24T12:25:15 < Xogium> :p
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2022-02-24T12:30:25 < karlp> 1.6-5.5V and -40 to +125C operation though, they love their automotive
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2022-02-24T13:12:59 < karlp> qyx: skip your lte shit, straight up to space! lolrence can fuck off with lora now too! https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/first-fully-integrated-soc-for-direct-to-satellite-iot/
2022-02-24T13:25:33 < ventYl> karlp: I thought that renesas is absofuckinglutely irrelevant outside of automotive
2022-02-24T13:25:57 < karlp> eh, I keep peeking at what they're doing, but yeah, so far :)
2022-02-24T13:26:04 < karlp> it all seems like, meh, and more $
2022-02-24T13:26:13 < karlp> and weirder packages and less stock anywhere.
2022-02-24T13:26:28  * karlp shrugs
2022-02-24T13:26:48 < ventYl> renesas manufactures at TSMC, so they are also affected by shortage
2022-02-24T13:26:49 < karlp> even maxim has "generic" cortex-m mcu's
2022-02-24T13:27:08 < ventYl> and automotive is willing to pay in order to complete their cars sitting on parking lots near production plants
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2022-02-24T14:33:46 < Laurenceb> concentration camp for cutie
2022-02-24T14:35:20 < Laurenceb> uamap is down
2022-02-24T14:35:25 < Laurenceb> sheeet
2022-02-24T14:35:47 < mawk> why do m33 and m4 not belong together
2022-02-24T14:36:05 < mawk> there is my ukrainian mistress in kyiv
2022-02-24T14:36:07 < mawk> maybe she got bombed
2022-02-24T14:40:08 < Laurenceb> sheeet
2022-02-24T14:40:13 < Laurenceb> flightradar24 down
2022-02-24T14:40:16 < Laurenceb> everything down
2022-02-24T14:40:32 < mawk> it's the rossians
2022-02-24T14:40:47 < Laurenceb> ywlts what ww3 is liek: back to victorian level of info
2022-02-24T14:40:56 < mawk> https://liveuamap.com/
2022-02-24T14:41:00 < mawk> this is not down
2022-02-24T14:41:07 < Laurenceb> aha loading slowly
2022-02-24T14:43:33 < BrainDamage> remember that any news site is going to risk to be labeled as political sided if their information could be classified as useful intelligence
2022-02-24T14:43:58 < BrainDamage> not to mention, targeted attacks
2022-02-24T14:45:24 < Laurenceb> wew its loaded
2022-02-24T14:45:33 < Laurenceb> lol USAF have run away to Poland
2022-02-24T14:47:20 < Steffanx> Time to go Ukraine and get your mistress out of there mawk?
2022-02-24T14:51:22 < mawk> maybe I will avoid going there in the next few days
2022-02-24T14:51:32 < mawk> but she can come back here if she wants
2022-02-24T14:51:37 < mawk> although I'm not sure Rutte will give her a visa
2022-02-24T14:51:41 < mawk> she's not refugee material yet
2022-02-24T14:52:37 < Laurenceb> https://liveuamap.com/pics/2022/02/24/22397484_0.jpg
2022-02-24T14:52:40 < Laurenceb> sheeeet
2022-02-24T14:53:16 < mawk> that's just peasants it's fine Laurenceb 
2022-02-24T14:54:06 < Steffanx> Like this British crazy gut that went to Afghanistan 
2022-02-24T14:54:10 < Steffanx> Guy
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2022-02-24T14:55:07 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-24T14:55:21 < kakium69> flightradar estimated queue 20minutes
2022-02-24T14:56:12 < BrainDamage> it's likely dosed by both legit traffic and iilegit ddos
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2022-02-24T14:59:29 < kakium699> winter storm causes electricity to drop like every 10minutes.. it's a little bit unnerving in day like this
2022-02-24T15:00:14 < Steffanx> What you expect to see one flightradar24.com kakium699 ?
2022-02-24T15:00:26 < kakium699> nato activity
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2022-02-24T15:00:53 < BrainDamage> they'll likely turn off the public transponders
2022-02-24T15:02:39 < Laurenceb> wew https://twitter.com/ASLuhn?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496734064593674240%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fliveuamap.com%2Fen%2F2022%2F24-february-video-of-a-missile-hitting-an-airport-reportedly
2022-02-24T15:05:09 < Laurenceb> https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1645705982139.webm
2022-02-24T15:06:21 < kakium699> in funland a lot of air force turboprops on air and I see some dassault falcons some unregistered flying north-south direction
2022-02-24T15:13:42 < kakium699> weird stuff 0 planes with transponders in ukraine flying currently
2022-02-24T15:17:49 < karlp> heh, disconnected the silabs devboard (while debugging) => simplicitiy studio errors out and goes to 100% cpu (multicore!)
2022-02-24T15:20:51 < Laurenceb> keeek the 4chan background sounds
2022-02-24T15:21:18 < Laurenceb> twf chans are the only way to get news
2022-02-24T15:22:13 < BrainDamage> well, real news sources need to confirm news
2022-02-24T15:22:29 < BrainDamage> while tweet and chan posting can regurgit rumors and anything
2022-02-24T15:23:14 < BrainDamage> it's also quite possible that several of these posts are fake, from either side of the conflict
2022-02-24T15:23:34 < ventYl> most probably
2022-02-24T15:24:01 < ventYl> it was the case back in 2014
2022-02-24T15:27:29 < sauce> disinformation on imageboards? perish the thought
2022-02-24T15:28:43 < Laurenceb> I think of it as a more amusing version of reality
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2022-02-24T15:31:35 < sauce> yeah. I'd just caution that there is a collapse of that personal or community context in the resharing / amplification process (which is the point)
2022-02-24T15:31:40 < sauce> same thing that happens with "irony"
2022-02-24T15:32:27 < mawk> >Laurenceb ironically a femboy
2022-02-24T15:32:33 < mawk> >Laurenceb on HRT a year later
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2022-02-24T15:36:29 < BrainDamage> https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-as-hard-to-escape-an-echo-chamber-as-it-is-to-flee-a-cult
2022-02-24T15:36:32 < BrainDamage> this is very relevant
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2022-02-24T16:15:01 < mawk> I'm trying zephyr on nrf52
2022-02-24T16:15:07 < mawk> I like device trees
2022-02-24T16:21:54 < Xogium> mawk: was that ironic ? About device trees
2022-02-24T16:22:06 < Xogium> I can't tell if it was or not
2022-02-24T16:23:27 < mawk> no Xogium I like them
2022-02-24T16:23:31 < mawk> it's not ironic
2022-02-24T16:25:11 < Xogium> I like them too
2022-02-24T16:26:47 < mawk> I'm using segger embedded studio for now but I don't think I will stay with it
2022-02-24T16:26:52 < mawk> I'll try vscode
2022-02-24T16:27:17 < Xogium> does it give you visual representation of dt ?
2022-02-24T16:27:35 < mawk> no
2022-02-24T16:27:38 < mawk> I use the text file
2022-02-24T16:27:41 < mawk> and write overlays
2022-02-24T16:27:46 < Xogium> oh
2022-02-24T16:27:48 < mawk> there's not a lot to modify anyway
2022-02-24T16:27:58 < mawk> I just have a custom unsupported board so I defined where are the LEDs, where are the buttons, and that'sit
2022-02-24T16:28:06 < mawk> it's like 10 lines in an dt overlay
2022-02-24T16:28:07 < Xogium> yeah I see
2022-02-24T16:28:28 < Xogium> was about the same when I ported stm32mp157c odyssey from seeed to mainline kernel
2022-02-24T16:30:23 < Xogium> oh god the jumper wire kit I got is solid wire
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2022-02-24T16:30:32 < Xogium> not the more flexible one
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2022-02-24T16:30:57 < mawk> I prefer solid wires
2022-02-24T16:31:03 < Xogium> really ?
2022-02-24T16:31:12 < Steffanx> Segger embedded studio. Meh
2022-02-24T16:31:41 < Xogium> I find them rather unflexible and difficult to reposition on a breadboard
2022-02-24T16:31:42 < BrainDamage> Xogium: for breadboards: absolutely solid core
2022-02-24T16:32:56 < Xogium> BrainDamage: those are always make to male though, aren't they ?
2022-02-24T16:32:59 < mawk> you don't liek it Steffanx ?
2022-02-24T16:33:01 < Xogium> er, male to male
2022-02-24T16:33:08 < Steffanx> I'm not a fan no
2022-02-24T16:33:09 < mawk> no you can have all varieties
2022-02-24T16:33:15 < mawk> what do you use Steffanx 
2022-02-24T16:33:18 < mawk> eclipse??????
2022-02-24T16:33:38 < BrainDamage> Xogium: yes, while f to f is normally stranded
2022-02-24T16:33:47 < Xogium> how do you know if a wire like this is male or female ?
2022-02-24T16:33:54 < BrainDamage> there's m to m stranded, where they solder to a solid core
2022-02-24T16:34:03 < Xogium> I'm used to the flexible kind with the tiny plastic connector at the end
2022-02-24T16:34:13 < mawk> dupont
2022-02-24T16:34:16 < Steffanx> Mawk even eclipse is better than SES.
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2022-02-24T16:34:30 < BrainDamage> that's it, the end point is a square peg with the same hollow cavity as a breadboard
2022-02-24T16:34:37 < mawk> why is SES not free then Steffanx 
2022-02-24T16:34:40 < BrainDamage> while m has a pointy end
2022-02-24T16:34:46 < mawk> if it's not free it must be good
2022-02-24T16:35:00 < Xogium> fhmm
2022-02-24T16:35:12 < Xogium> so they hold better than the flexible wires ?
2022-02-24T16:35:21 < Xogium> even on pin headers ?
2022-02-24T16:35:30 < Steffanx> Its free if you ignore the warning mawk
2022-02-24T16:35:35 < Steffanx> Or have a jlink
2022-02-24T16:36:03 < Xogium> I never had solid wires before
2022-02-24T16:36:03 < Steffanx> Many segger ware is free when you ignore the warnings 😋
2022-02-24T16:36:32 < mawk> lol
2022-02-24T16:36:57 < Xogium> but I can see why they are better… Damn they hold very tightly in this breadboard
2022-02-24T16:37:34 < Steffanx> And the "intellisense" of SES is a pain
2022-02-24T16:38:18 < Xogium> so when you want to remove one of these, do you just like grab onto theinsulated part of the wire about in the midle and tug ?
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2022-02-24T16:48:53 < Xogium> I think all of those I got are male to male
2022-02-24T16:53:26 < Xogium> yeah male to male only, afaik
2022-02-24T16:53:36 < Xogium> https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Global-Specialties/WK-1?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsvbV9l%252Bnr01Oo0k%252BXJDjel
2022-02-24T16:55:27 < Xogium> meh I guess I'll have to hook them up to cheaper wires if I need m-f
2022-02-24T16:58:27 < benishor> https://twitter.com/Intel_sky/status/1496859930082508800
2022-02-24T17:01:22 < ventYl> I would call that "shit hit the fan"
2022-02-24T17:10:13 < benishor> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-russian-forces-enter-chernobyl-26320432
2022-02-24T17:10:15 < benishor> this is even more shit
2022-02-24T17:10:49 < ventYl> why?
2022-02-24T17:11:21 < benishor> because radioactive waste?
2022-02-24T17:11:31 < benishor> I live in romania
2022-02-24T17:11:36 < benishor> next to ukraine that is
2022-02-24T17:11:58 < ventYl> i am some 100 km northwise
2022-02-24T17:12:02 < benishor> when chernobil exploded back in the 80s, we were given anti radioactive treatment
2022-02-24T17:12:30 < benishor> ventYl: where exactly?
2022-02-24T17:12:40 < ventYl> east of slovakia
2022-02-24T17:13:21 < benishor> howdly nearly-neighbour
2022-02-24T17:14:02 < ventYl> I am not sure that in Chernobyl is anything of immediate use in war
2022-02-24T17:15:00 < ventYl> there is long term storage being built but IIRC it is not in operation yet. and digging anything out of reactor would be bat shit crazy
2022-02-24T17:15:10 < benishor> that's what I'm afraid of
2022-02-24T17:15:24 < benishor> blowing up the reactor on purpose
2022-02-24T17:15:44 < ventYl> ummm
2022-02-24T17:17:51 < karlp> cmon, to what end?
2022-02-24T17:18:42 < karlp> "in chernobyl" is just because they have to drive past it, the mirror is just a shitty newspaper for eventrying to  make a link
2022-02-24T17:19:30 < karlp> it's like _maybe_ 10k from the belarus border?
2022-02-24T17:21:32 < ventYl> karlp: i am not sure why, byt apparently russians are not just coming by
2022-02-24T17:25:03 < ventYl> s/coming/passing/
2022-02-24T17:26:08 < Steffanx> Wait for the wind to blow west and blow it.
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2022-02-24T17:57:00 < BrainDamage> seizing the reactor to blow it up would be stupid
2022-02-24T17:57:08 < BrainDamage> you bomb it from afare
2022-02-24T17:57:28 < BrainDamage> and mostly, you don't bomb it while your troops fill the region
2022-02-24T18:03:07 < Steffanx> True. 
2022-02-24T18:04:26 < BrainDamage> they might rig it with explosive and blow it up after they retreat, if they retreat
2022-02-24T18:04:32 < BrainDamage> as retaliatory measure
2022-02-24T18:04:45 < BrainDamage> but it seems to me that putin plans to stay
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2022-02-24T18:38:11 < bitmask> o/
2022-02-24T18:38:18 < bitmask> how hard is it to drill into concrete?
2022-02-24T18:41:48 < BrainDamage> you want a percussive drill
2022-02-24T18:42:22 < BrainDamage> it's one that makes the drill bit jackhammer back and forth as you press against the material
2022-02-24T18:42:31 < BrainDamage> otherwise it gets stupidly hard
2022-02-24T18:42:49 < bitmask> hmm
2022-02-24T18:42:52 < bitmask> does mine do that?
2022-02-24T18:42:57 < bitmask> i forgets
2022-02-24T18:43:09 < BrainDamage> there's usually a switch to toggle it
2022-02-24T18:43:27 < BrainDamage> and a pretty distinctive trrrrrr sound when it's on
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2022-02-24T18:44:55 < bitmask> is that what an impact driver is?
2022-02-24T18:44:58 < bitmask> i think thats what mine has
2022-02-24T18:45:01 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-02-24T18:45:04 < bitmask> ok cool
2022-02-24T18:45:46 < bitmask> do regular drill bits work?
2022-02-24T18:46:06 < bitmask> I have cobalt ones but not the expensive kind :)
2022-02-24T18:46:20 < BrainDamage> here there's no such thing as 'regular', you have masonry, wood, metal
2022-02-24T18:46:26 < BrainDamage> masonry bits will work
2022-02-24T18:46:46 < BrainDamage> as in, the shape of the drill bit
2022-02-24T18:46:49 < bitmask> true
2022-02-24T18:47:01 < bitmask> i'll get a new bit for this
2022-02-24T18:47:25 < bitmask> masonry (or at least ceramic tile) is usually carbide i think
2022-02-24T18:47:25 < BrainDamage> wood and metal bits will likely just shatter
2022-02-24T18:47:49 < BrainDamage> since they are not built to withstand the hammer action
2022-02-24T18:48:03 < bitmask> gotcha
2022-02-24T18:48:04 < BrainDamage> masonry have a reinforced triangle tip
2022-02-24T18:49:28 < karlp> I've heard of people using metal bits on ceramic going slowly with oil, but aintnobodygottimeforthat.gif just buy a masonry bit.
2022-02-24T18:49:54 < karlp> though, I've normalyl used a masonrybit _without_ hammer to grind through the tile first.
2022-02-24T18:49:59 < karlp> oh shit, I read ceramic not concrete
2022-02-24T18:50:02 < bitmask> its not tile at least, tile sucks to drill through
2022-02-24T18:50:07 < karlp> yeah, masonrbit+hammer, all the way
2022-02-24T18:52:58 < bitmask> the paver is 46mm thick, maybe I should look for concrete anchors that dont need that length?  do they have short anchors like that?
2022-02-24T18:54:05 < englishman> impact driver isn't the same as a hammer drill
2022-02-24T18:55:00 < bitmask> oh?
2022-02-24T18:55:47 < bitmask> maybe I should just try setting the printer on the concrete before attempting to secure them together
2022-02-24T18:56:34 < BrainDamage> oh, I thought they were the same
2022-02-24T18:56:41 < BrainDamage> sorry for the confusion
2022-02-24T18:56:49 < BrainDamage> but yes, hammer is mandatory for concrete
2022-02-24T18:57:06 < BrainDamage> you don't so much drill concrete as chip away small bits
2022-02-24T18:57:33 < BrainDamage> if you try to drill it, it just abrades your tip to a cylinder
2022-02-24T18:58:00 < bitmask> makes sense
2022-02-24T18:58:57 < bitmask> ahh impact driver applies the 'hammer force' rotationally, not in the direction I want
2022-02-24T19:10:50 < benishor> planning to drill a hole in the reactor?
2022-02-24T19:18:50 < karlp> schweet, I got characteristic format descriptors working
2022-02-24T19:18:58 < karlp> silabs really could document that a little btter!
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2022-02-24T19:20:40 < karlp> efr connect doesn't know how to decode them though, but nrf connect does :)
2022-02-24T19:21:31 < mawk> last time it was the reverse
2022-02-24T19:21:37 < mawk> nrf connect didn't understand your thing
2022-02-24T19:21:39 < karlp> yeah, they both do different things.
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2022-02-24T19:39:38 < karlp> I like how bt assigned numbers has 16 bits for units, so they just went and tossed in yard, foot, mile, inch, angstrom, nautical mile, parsec.
2022-02-24T19:39:52 < karlp> that sounds like a committee gave up on something.
2022-02-24T19:40:35 < mawk> lol
2022-02-24T19:40:57 < karlp> ~most of the rest of them are plain SI and SI derived, but no, not those few
2022-02-24T19:41:30 < jpa-> https://github.com/ETLCPP/etl/issues/495#issuecomment-1049934393    i hope russians don't bomb platformio founder out of existence
2022-02-24T19:42:26 < karlp> I mean, I can sort of figure that if you wanted to reduce bits on the "wire" that you might want a different unit than meter, sometimes, but wow... having all the fucking iperioal shit too. just... 
2022-02-24T19:42:56 < jpa-> if you want to display stuff reasonably, it makes sense to be able to pass the native unit
2022-02-24T19:43:49 < karlp> to a point, sure,
2022-02-24T19:44:06 < karlp> but there's no unit for farenheit...
2022-02-24T19:44:21 < karlp> or any of the other imperial shit units.
2022-02-24T19:44:28 < karlp> so not entirely sure I buy  it.
2022-02-24T19:45:33 < karlp> I can only see it that your AFM or SEV microscope shits want to use 1 byte charactersitics with an angstrom unit and not have exponents hurting their precicision vs 2 or three byte charactersistics in meters?
2022-02-24T19:45:41  * karlp shrugs
2022-02-24T19:47:20 < karlp> jpa-: how's pio treating you in general?
2022-02-24T19:48:22 < jpa-> pretty well as an user, but somewhat annoying as library publisher
2022-02-24T19:49:44 < catphish_> what kind of MCU might i want to reach for do to Ethernet+IPv6+TCP
2022-02-24T19:50:43 < jpa-> catphish_: one with more than network_latency * datarate of RAM
2022-02-24T19:51:35 < catphish_> *nod* - i'm probably going to cheat for now and use a Linux SoC
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2022-02-24T21:16:17 < kakium69> evenings ##war32
2022-02-24T21:16:53 < mawk> hi kakium69 
2022-02-24T21:17:06 < mawk> my russian mistress is in kyiv, I hope she's not ded
2022-02-24T21:17:23 < kakium69> doing FSB stuff there?
2022-02-24T21:17:24 < mawk> if she stays home no big russian is going to make holes in her I hope
2022-02-24T21:17:36 < mawk> yes
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2022-02-24T21:31:44 < Laurenceb> fuck 
2022-02-24T21:31:57 < kakium69> the duck
2022-02-24T21:31:59 < Laurenceb> looks line an-255 might be fucked
2022-02-24T21:32:32 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-24T21:32:49 < mawk> you spent your day tracking planes Laurenceb ?
2022-02-24T21:33:02 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-24T21:33:52 < kakium69> an-255 is the biggest transport plane in the world
2022-02-24T21:34:04 < kakium69> operated by ukranian company
2022-02-24T21:35:57 < kakium69> only one unit exist
2022-02-24T21:36:00 < srk>  *was
2022-02-24T21:36:07 < mawk> now zero
2022-02-24T21:36:34 < zyp> aww
2022-02-24T21:36:46 < kakium69> blown into pieces?
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2022-02-24T21:37:17 < zyp> https://www.key.aero/article/antonov-an225-reported-safe says otherwise
2022-02-24T21:37:28 < zyp> might of course have changed since
2022-02-24T21:38:59 < mawk> putin vowed to not harm civilians 
2022-02-24T21:39:03 < mawk> and we all trust his words
2022-02-24T21:40:42 < BrainDamage> as if war doesn't cause massive amounts of accidental casualties
2022-02-24T21:41:15 < BrainDamage> roads, hospitals, airports, trains
2022-02-24T21:41:31 < BrainDamage> all of those are necessary to keep people alive
2022-02-24T21:41:57 < BrainDamage> food and water don't distribute themselves for example
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2022-02-24T21:45:29 < catphish_> off topic question because i'm confused - are russia invading *all* of ukraine, or just parts that they're recognising the independence of? because what i've read seem to paint it both ways
2022-02-24T21:45:59 < englishman> kyiv is pretty far from donetsk
2022-02-24T21:46:19 < catphish_> some sources say "peacekeeping in disputed regions", others say "marching on capital"
2022-02-24T21:46:43 < catphish_> only one of those can be objectively true
2022-02-24T21:47:11 < kakium69> doubt
2022-02-24T21:47:34 < Steffanx> I'm pretty sure they are on their way to the capital.
2022-02-24T21:47:54 < kakium69> marching on capital atm. means green men have landed to strategic places
2022-02-24T21:48:24 < Steffanx> And trying to take control of some airstrip "nearby"
2022-02-24T21:48:42 < mawk> they say they want the east, but they're disabling the entire Ukrainian army 
2022-02-24T21:49:02 < kakium69> no east
2022-02-24T21:49:03 < kakium69> all of it
2022-02-24T21:49:10 < mawk> they want to free these mysterious new republics 
2022-02-24T21:49:16 < catphish_> simple legal solution: pass a law against ordering an invasion of your country, request extradition of leader who broke that law
2022-02-24T21:49:23 < mawk> I said it's what they say kakium69 
2022-02-24T21:49:29 < mawk> I didn't say it's the truth 
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2022-02-24T21:50:07 < kakium69> it's Estonias independence day btw.
2022-02-24T21:50:12 < Steffanx> Ok
2022-02-24T21:50:21 < kakium69> coincidence? no
2022-02-24T21:52:36 < catphish_> kakium69: morning
2022-02-24T21:52:57 < kakium69> morgon
2022-02-24T21:53:10 < catphish_> kakium69: to answer your question, progress slow, designing engine mount, battery mount, and battery enclosure seems like never ending task
2022-02-24T21:53:59 < kakium69> battery enclosure is just cage made out of steel tubes and lined with thick polycarbonate plates?
2022-02-24T21:54:20 < kakium69> have one end open so that you get your terminals connected
2022-02-24T21:55:11 < catphish_> kakium69: basically yes - this is where i am so far https://imgur.com/a/jP3Hz1h
2022-02-24T21:55:22 < kakium69> oh yes I forgot you use prismatic cells
2022-02-24T21:55:37 < catphish_> motor mostly mounted, support frame build, battery enclosure design in progress
2022-02-24T21:55:43 < catphish_> *built
2022-02-24T21:56:47 < catphish_> basically a steel frame, i'll add some kind of outer plates, and there's space down each side for pipes / cables
2022-02-24T21:57:18 < catphish_> also, if you look closely, you see the rightmost motor mount isn't mounted, so i need to build that
2022-02-24T21:57:47 < catphish_> getting there, haven't done any fab the last 7 days though because my friend who has done this before and knows how to weld is on holiday
2022-02-24T21:58:57 < BrainDamage> where are you going to store the batteries?
2022-02-24T22:08:21 < kakium69> he needs to make box(es) on that steel frame
2022-02-24T22:08:31 < Laurenceb> >ongoing battle at the radioactive waste storage site
2022-02-24T22:08:50 < Laurenceb> lmao
2022-02-24T22:09:15 < kakium69> maybe it's strategic
2022-02-24T22:11:09 < kakium69> surelly it makes a great map for next call of duty
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2022-02-24T22:14:27 < Steffanx-> Wb kakium69
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2022-02-24T22:18:23 < kakium69> for board functions required I can make a class that has function pointers?
2022-02-24T22:18:34 < kakium69> but all the board functions are inlined
2022-02-24T22:20:48 < BrainDamage> as rule of thumb, if you're using pointers, you're likely doing it wrong
2022-02-24T22:21:17 < BrainDamage> the whole point of c++ is avoiding to deal with pointers explicitly, so you pass references, use inheritance and virtual classes, etc
2022-02-24T22:23:21 < kakium69> how do I pass unique inlined board functions to my shit class?
2022-02-24T22:23:25 < catphish_> BrainDamage: the green cuboids are the batteries, they sit within that steel frame, there will be some kind of outer shell, but only for water / fire protection
2022-02-24T22:23:47 < catphish_> there will be 15, the 5 shown plus 10 more in parallel with the initial 5
2022-02-24T22:24:03 < kakium69> I just make template for class that has like 50 template parameters
2022-02-24T22:25:55 < catphish_> the batteries look like this: https://i.imgur.com/ys79gUz.jpg
2022-02-24T22:26:20 < catphish_> that was a very early concept for the box, the shape has changed somewhat
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2022-02-24T22:26:52 < BrainDamage> why are they inlined itfp ...
2022-02-24T22:27:09 < BrainDamage> and you add an abstract interface class that the implementation inherit
2022-02-24T22:27:48 < BrainDamage> catphish_: you should add a quick detach mechanism on the bottom, controlled through bowden wires
2022-02-24T22:28:07 < BrainDamage> you pull a lever and disseminate a carpet of lithium batteries on the road
2022-02-24T22:28:19 < catphish_> lol
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2022-02-24T22:36:44 < kakium69> catphish_: you need more structure under the floor plate
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2022-02-24T22:38:31 < kakium69> or some thick honeycomb floor plate
2022-02-24T22:39:36 < kakium69> or some more structure and medium thickness honeycomb
2022-02-24T22:40:23 < kakium69> there are some plastic honeycombs that sandwich aluminum honeycomb between sheets of plastic
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2022-02-24T22:44:14 < Laurenceb> know why Putin is invading?
2022-02-24T22:44:24 < Laurenceb> because of his toxic masculinity
2022-02-24T22:44:34 < kakium69> also white male
2022-02-24T22:44:41 < kakium69> priviledge
2022-02-24T22:45:14 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-02-24T22:45:24 < Laurenceb> we need to defend fashy femboys
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2022-02-24T22:52:54 < karlp> jpa-: do you use pio command line, or any of it's IDE generated stuff? do you use it's testing and debugging stuff as well, or just library selection and building?
2022-02-24T22:55:00 < kakium69> catphish_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPQ3sFPuB6c CF skin + aluminum honeycomb
2022-02-24T22:56:01 < catphish_> kakium69: that does look cool
2022-02-24T22:57:00 < catphish_> though 30cm of it was bending when he stood on it with only ~80kg
2022-02-24T22:57:35 < kakium69> it's 10cm wide
2022-02-24T22:57:40 < kakium69> or less?
2022-02-24T22:58:12 < kakium69> imagine it 50cm wide
2022-02-24T22:59:00 < catphish_> indeed
2022-02-24T22:59:35 < catphish_> i intend to use steel sheet to fill in the bottom and sides of that box
2022-02-24T22:59:51 < kakium69> it should do
2022-02-24T22:59:56 < catphish_> but at the bottom, it won't be taking any weight, the weight will be supported by the angle
2022-02-24T23:00:10 < kakium69> why not aluminum sheets?
2022-02-24T23:00:20 < kakium69> save the weight
2022-02-24T23:00:40 < catphish_> if i can, i will use aluminium for both the angle and the sheets
2022-02-24T23:00:53 < catphish_> just need to check my welding friend can weld it
2022-02-24T23:01:14 < kakium69> you can mig weld aluminum
2022-02-24T23:01:25 < catphish_> if so, that'll be absolutely fine
2022-02-24T23:01:52 < kakium69> idk is it hard
2022-02-24T23:01:57 < catphish_> i can make that frame from aluminium, add aluminium sheet on all 6 sides, and that should be done
2022-02-24T23:02:13 < catphish_> i'll ask him next week when he's not skiing
2022-02-24T23:02:33 < kakium69> you plan to have vertical grid / walls?
2022-02-24T23:02:38 < kakium69> separators
2022-02-24T23:03:26 < catphish_> kakium69: probably not
2022-02-24T23:04:25 < catphish_> my preference would be all the modules just butted directly together, but i think some spacing will be needed to make room for those supporting angles underneath
2022-02-24T23:04:55 < catphish_> a vertical aluminium sheet would be easy enough to add for fire protection benefit though i guess
2022-02-24T23:05:11 < kakium69> nah
2022-02-24T23:05:24 < catphish_> my first priority is actually getting it all to fit :)
2022-02-24T23:05:46 < kakium69> in case of fire aluminum doesn't provide anything
2022-02-24T23:06:00 < kakium69> it turns into butter in 300C
2022-02-24T23:06:18 < catphish_> ideally i'd just have a grid of box section below, and a simple box on top
2022-02-24T23:06:28 < catphish_> but i don't have much height to spare
2022-02-24T23:06:42 < catphish_> so i think the frame i've designed will work nicely
2022-02-24T23:09:00 < catphish_> a few tweaks still to do
2022-02-24T23:09:32 < catphish_> i might make each row of 5 modules its own frame, then bolt those into the larger box
2022-02-24T23:18:03 < kakium69> those prismatic cells have some sort of mounting system?
2022-02-24T23:18:09 < kakium69> threaded holes?
2022-02-24T23:18:31 < kakium69> index holes?
2022-02-24T23:18:40 < kakium69> clamping surfaces?
2022-02-24T23:28:09 < bitmask> fuckity fuck fuck
2022-02-24T23:29:09 < kakium69> sup
2022-02-24T23:29:48 < karlp> zyp: does this "nuclei"  https://doc.nucleisys.com/nmsis/introduction/introduction.html mean anything to you? it's apparently applicable to gd32vf103 at least, but they've got ~zero other boards listed?
2022-02-24T23:29:53 < bitmask> oh nothing
2022-02-24T23:31:06 < catphish_> kakium69: it's not really clear to me how they're supposed to be mounted, i'm just going to support them underneath clamp gently from the top, and hope for the best
2022-02-24T23:31:28 < catphish_> there's no mounting holes or similar, just flat surfaces
2022-02-24T23:31:38 < kakium69> so it's clamped
2022-02-24T23:32:00 < catphish_> as far as i can tell, that's the correct approach
2022-02-24T23:32:39 < kakium69> you can use rubber sheets to add friction and even out pressure
2022-02-24T23:32:58 < catphish_> my friend build a pack of these, he took each set of 5, put a rectangular frame and flay sheet underneath, then clamped from above, it seems good
2022-02-24T23:33:15 < zyp> karlp, I seem to recall the name «nuclei» at least
2022-02-24T23:33:25 < catphish_> yeah, i'll look at add rubber between the clamp at the top at least, to increase friction
2022-02-24T23:33:43 < kakium69> then it requires less pressure
2022-02-24T23:33:48 < karlp> zyp: I thought gd32v was "bumblebee" ?
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2022-02-24T23:34:01 < karlp> I wonder if this is an attempt to make it standard that just hasn't gone anyway
2022-02-24T23:34:13 < karlp> it's ~99.99% same structure and everythign as cmsis.
2022-02-24T23:34:20 < karlp> dsp and nn extensions as well,
2022-02-24T23:34:24 < zyp> I think it's called Nuclei Bumblebee :)
2022-02-24T23:34:48 < kakium69> catphish_: clamp bar running across those 5 cells?
2022-02-24T23:34:55 < zyp> ah
2022-02-24T23:34:56 < karlp> trying to find the sch of this gd32 start board so I can see if I can use it's "gdlink" (cmsis-dap) to program the wch parts.
2022-02-24T23:35:04 < zyp> https://doc.nucleisys.com/nuclei_spec/ I remember I went through this
2022-02-24T23:35:22 < catphish_> kakium69: yes, with a post at each end
2022-02-24T23:35:31 < zyp> IIRC my impression is that the bumblebee core appears to be an older revision not fully compliant with that spec
2022-02-24T23:35:38 < kakium69> and a thread with winged nut?
2022-02-24T23:35:56 < catphish_> kakium69: not winged, but yes, that's how my friend did it
2022-02-24T23:36:42 < catphish_> winged is probably better for hand torqueing
2022-02-24T23:36:49 < zyp> https://www.nucleisys.com/product/rvipes/lcxp/
2022-02-24T23:37:01 < zyp> «GD32VF103, a 32-bit general-purpose microcontroller, is based on the RISC-V core with an impressive balance of  processing power, reduced power consumption and peripheral set. The insided RISC-V core, named Bumblebee, is  developed by Nuclei.»
2022-02-24T23:37:08 < kakium69> just make one big frame it takes less space and is stiffer catphish_?
2022-02-24T23:37:09 < catphish_> so i might make 3 individual trays of 5, each with a bottom frame, a top frame,  and a threaded bat between the two
2022-02-24T23:37:13 < kakium69> with 5rows
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2022-02-24T23:37:57 < kakium69> separate clamps for each 5row
2022-02-24T23:38:08 < catphish_> the problem with 3 individual trays is that then the have to go in a box, and the box itself would need to be strengthened, so a pointless doubling of strangthening parts
2022-02-24T23:38:39 < catphish_> so instead, my current design is a single bottom frame, then i will add a separate top clamp for each row of 5
2022-02-24T23:38:46 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-24T23:38:52 < kakium69> that is what I meant
2022-02-24T23:38:59 < kakium69> makes sense
2022-02-24T23:38:59 < catphish_> i think this makes the most sense
2022-02-24T23:39:18 < catphish_> or... i jut duplicate the bottom frame, and make it into a single top clamping frame
2022-02-24T23:39:46 < catphish_> the problem with that is that the top frame probably needs to support the side walls
2022-02-24T23:40:09 < catphish_> so i'll probably stick wit making the outer frame completely static, then just adding 3 top inner clamping bars
2022-02-24T23:40:33 < kakium69> and then a lid?
2022-02-24T23:40:54 < catphish_> i've been round in circles, but the static frame here is where i keep ending up: https://i.imgur.com/JBkqB2a.png
2022-02-24T23:41:16 < Laurenceb> any good livestreams from ukraine
2022-02-24T23:41:29 < catphish_> so in addition to the frame pictured there, there will need to be 6 flat sheets
2022-02-24T23:41:55 < catphish_> the to flat sheet could be called a lid, and could be removeable, while the other 5 can be welded / riveted on
2022-02-24T23:42:24 < catphish_> and (as mentioned) 3 x top clamping bars
2022-02-24T23:42:36 < kakium69> structurally it's best to have those 5 fixed
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2022-02-24T23:42:57 < karlp> zyp: so, there's no riscv stuff that actually has swd right? ?
2022-02-24T23:43:03 < catphish_> yeah i think they can just be welded to the outside of the frame :)
2022-02-24T23:43:11 < zyp> karlp, not that I'm aware of, no
2022-02-24T23:43:37 < karlp> ok, this gd32vf103c-start has an header blcok with silk saying, "unusable"
2022-02-24T23:43:49 < zyp> my understanding is that there's a jtag standard for risc-v debug with a couple of versions
2022-02-24T23:44:06 < karlp> and it's apparently connected to swdio/clk on the gd32_nonv_f103 that runs the "gdlink" and then there's "normal" jtag pins going over to the gd32v target
2022-02-24T23:44:13 < karlp> so yeah, it's "unusable" kinda.
2022-02-24T23:44:17 < zyp> I hope most risc-v silicon implements that and not custom bullshit
2022-02-24T23:44:41 < karlp> but this fucking wch  ch582m board has a "SWD" header an no onboard debugger.
2022-02-24T23:44:51 < karlp> so kinda curiouis wtf is going on there :)
2022-02-24T23:48:31 < kakium69> catphish_ how much does one cell weight?
2022-02-24T23:50:26 < karlp> ohdea, swdio goes to a pin called "TIO" and SWDCLK goes to a pin called "TCK" that's looking very non-jtag...
2022-02-24T23:50:43 < zyp> maybe they cloned SWD
2022-02-24T23:51:46 < kakium69> do they have spot welder? if frame was made from steel just a 1mm or thinner steel sheet would be ideal, but welding is problematic because of heat generated and hardening makes sheet brittle around welds
2022-02-24T23:52:15 < kakium69> heat generated = warping and tensions
2022-02-24T23:53:59 < kakium69> I would use 0.8mm or so steel and wrap it all around from top to side to bottom to side to top
2022-02-24T23:54:59 < kakium69> use longer welds on top and tack through to frame on sides and bottom
2022-02-24T23:55:07 < karlp> geh, ok, where does one start... gd32v, miniblink, using riscv-openocd? then try same using laks?
2022-02-24T23:55:23 < karlp> that tests toolchain, interface and gd32v, 
2022-02-24T23:55:36 < karlp> then might have a groundwork feasible to go to wch insansity?
2022-02-24T23:55:44 < karlp> I'm not installing these chinese windows tools...
2022-02-24T23:55:45 < zyp> perhaps
2022-02-24T23:55:56 < zyp> I skipped miniblink and went straight for laks
2022-02-24T23:56:20 < karlp> yeah, you already have gd32v, so I guess that's ready enough.
2022-02-24T23:56:31 < karlp> did yo build your own riscv toolchain?
2022-02-24T23:56:37 < zyp> fuck no
2022-02-24T23:56:38 < zyp> :)
2022-02-24T23:56:42 < karlp> or is this someting platformio can help with
2022-02-24T23:56:42 < catphish_> kakium69: 12kg per battery "module"
2022-02-24T23:56:45 < karlp> yeah, i didn't want to eithe :)
2022-02-24T23:57:07 < catphish_> kakium69: they have tig and mig welders, and can do spot welding :)
2022-02-24T23:57:24 < karlp> are you using bmp with riscv patches or what?
2022-02-24T23:57:58 < zyp> no, I haven't tried that yet, I'm not sure that existed yet when I dicked around with gd32v, or at least I weren't aware of it at the time
2022-02-24T23:58:11 < zyp> but next time I'm touching risc-v I'm intending to give that a go
2022-02-24T23:58:27 < kakium69> spot welding is the bestest for steel to steel thin sheet joint just bang bang and there is very little heat
2022-02-24T23:58:50 < karlp> so, which toolchain did you end up using?
2022-02-24T23:59:00 < zyp> I apparently got some riscv64-unknown-elf- toolchain with gcc 10.2, not sure exactly where I got it from, maybe a sifive build or something
--- Day changed Fri Feb 25 2022
2022-02-25T00:00:03 < zyp> ah, probably from https://github.com/riscv-collab/riscv-gnu-toolchain
2022-02-25T00:02:19 < karlp> ok, that's the one I was just looking at.
2022-02-25T00:02:40 < karlp> sifive is referred to sometimes, but they dont' seem to have anything downloadable without signin anymore
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2022-02-25T00:09:15 < kakium69> zyp: can I throw static assert to class body?
2022-02-25T00:09:27 < kakium69> or does it need to be inside method
2022-02-25T00:09:39 < kakium69> this is for template checking
2022-02-25T00:09:40 < zyp> it can be anywhere
2022-02-25T00:09:44 < kakium69> good
2022-02-25T00:09:48 < kakium69> thanks
2022-02-25T00:09:55 < zyp> if you're checking template arguments, it can be anywhere in the template
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2022-02-25T00:14:18 < kakium69> good good I placed it in first in class body
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2022-02-25T00:35:50 < upgrdman> how in going in europe... wonder if ww3 is incubating
2022-02-25T00:36:01 < upgrdman> *how's it...
2022-02-25T00:36:17 < upgrdman> maybe r2com was deployed to ukraine
2022-02-25T00:37:30 < karlp> he's basement dwelling in the bay area isn't he?
2022-02-25T00:37:45 < upgrdman> orly? lol
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2022-02-25T00:39:26 < karlp> zyp: did you put laks/rv/miniblink anywhere in your repos?
2022-02-25T00:39:34 < karlp> or wsa that "trivial" :) ?
2022-02-25T00:42:33 < zyp> I think this is what I tested: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Z30Xj
2022-02-25T00:42:38 < karlp> I wonder if I should just buy one of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32944486685.html
2022-02-25T00:42:50 < zyp> but I also ran the coro stuff on gd32v
2022-02-25T00:43:26 < zyp> also, if I didn't add this to laks yet, you need this as well: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/14lMz
2022-02-25T00:43:28 < karlp> i wentthrogh a pile of boxes for "whatmight be a feasible jtag dongle" and came up with an old ti-icdi, an old kitprog, some cmsis-dap that I'd need to solder and fiddle pins and a couple of SBCs 
2022-02-25T00:43:45 < karlp> how about you just add that to laks then ;)
2022-02-25T00:44:55 < zyp> yeah, I will, next time I dick around with risc-v
2022-02-25T00:45:06 < zyp> for now just stick it in a .cpp and link it in
2022-02-25T00:46:29 < zyp> for ftdi, I like this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264
2022-02-25T00:46:52 < zyp> although I got the older with microusb
2022-02-25T00:47:00 < karlp> hrm, that's the single port one, and you still need to pin it all  but yeah, not a bad option
2022-02-25T00:47:32 < karlp> i mean, ideallllly you'd dfu flash "something" to one of these other WCH parts ;)
2022-02-25T00:47:39 < zyp> yes, it is, I figure if I wanted two ports I'd just get two of those
2022-02-25T00:47:41 < karlp> chyna number 1 ;)
2022-02-25T00:48:20 < karlp> attraction of that board is you get no surprises with what can actually be done, but no esd/levels at all 
2022-02-25T00:48:36 < karlp> ali has, which is the raw double too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015646715.html
2022-02-25T00:48:48 < zyp> stupid connector
2022-02-25T00:48:49 < karlp> I'd vastly prefer that with a fuckingmicro-b though, instead of  male-a
2022-02-25T00:48:57 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-25T00:49:27 < zyp> usb-c > micro b > b > fuckin a plug
2022-02-25T00:50:23 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/imd1f.jpg mine is currently mounted to the orbtrace testjig
2022-02-25T00:50:39 < zyp> so I should probably order a few more to have loose ones
2022-02-25T00:51:46 < zyp> and before you ask, yes, I'm working on getting orbtrace out
2022-02-25T00:52:17 < karlp> nah it's ok, got enough on my own plate right now.
2022-02-25T00:52:27 < karlp> pretending to have enough time to look at riscv tonight is already silly.
2022-02-25T00:52:42 < zyp> currently working on putting together a store
2022-02-25T00:54:35 < zyp> when I looked at ecommerce stuff, the only thing that looked nice was saleor, which in itself is just an apiserver, perfect for automation since I'm lazy
2022-02-25T00:55:21 < zyp> only issue is that the storefront is just an example, and it's built on a tech stack I have no intention to learn enough to beat it into shape
2022-02-25T00:55:29 < zyp> so I'm writing my own from scratch instead
2022-02-25T00:56:21 < zyp> although I hate web dev :)
2022-02-25T00:56:24 < karlp> you're going to run it all on an m7 or something that you used orbtrace on to makeit peformantenough right ;)
2022-02-25T00:56:31 < zyp> haha
2022-02-25T00:56:33 < zyp> nah
2022-02-25T00:58:26 < zyp> still looks like shit, but I got product browsing and cart interface working: https://store-dev.home.zyp.no/
2022-02-25T00:58:43 < zyp> been working on the checkout interface today, but that's not published yet
2022-02-25T00:59:16 < karlp> bra!
2022-02-25T00:59:22 < karlp> flot(t)
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2022-02-25T01:00:44 < zyp> so yeah, I fucking hate web dev, but there's some neat stuff in all the shit
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2022-02-25T01:03:29 < karlp> ok, scons errors on "using freertos with riscv" so that's progress...
2022-02-25T01:03:34  * karlp turns off freertos...
2022-02-25T01:03:41 < zyp> haha
2022-02-25T01:04:31 < karlp> (copying other stuff and merging with your stuff)
2022-02-25T01:05:52 < karlp> did you try this before or after you went and did dev_v2?
2022-02-25T01:06:13 < zyp> riscv is all v2
2022-02-25T01:06:47 < karlp> guess it's pebkac then.
2022-02-25T01:07:16 < karlp> ah.
2022-02-25T01:07:17 < karlp> hrm.
2022-02-25T01:07:30 < karlp> extern/laks/rcc/rcc_enums.h:7:17: error: expected identifier before numeric constant
2022-02-25T01:07:31 < karlp>     7 |                 0 = 1 << DMA1,
2022-02-25T01:07:36 < karlp> that sort of shit is stuff I asked for...
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2022-02-25T01:07:45 < karlp> but riscv toolchain seems a little unhappy with it?
2022-02-25T01:08:05 < karlp> oh, no, that's gd32v yaml not converted to support new style
2022-02-25T01:08:05 < zyp> ah
2022-02-25T01:08:06 < karlp> duh
2022-02-25T01:08:08 < zyp> yep
2022-02-25T01:08:09 < karlp> ok, I can work on that.
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2022-02-25T01:08:24 < karlp> that should probably fix..... msot of these then.
2022-02-25T01:08:31 < karlp> extern/laks/rcc/rcc_reg.h:246:18: error: 'enable' is not a member of 'rcc'; did you mean 'enable'?
2022-02-25T01:08:33 < karlp> I love that though
2022-02-25T01:08:46 < karlp> "a" is not ok, did you mean "a" ?
2022-02-25T01:09:13 < zyp> hah
2022-02-25T01:10:50 < karlp> what's gdb-add-index?
2022-02-25T01:11:46 < zyp> what's what?
2022-02-25T01:12:07 < karlp> oh, there's a riscv64-unknown-elf-gdb and a riscv64-unknown-elf-gdb-add-index
2022-02-25T01:12:10 < karlp> never seen that before
2022-02-25T01:12:17 < zyp> idk
2022-02-25T01:12:26 < karlp> seems it'ssome dwarf5 indexing shit.
2022-02-25T01:12:29  * karlp ignores it
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2022-02-25T01:22:37 < kakium69> zyp: if I have constexpr constructor can I use it to set non-const variables too?
2022-02-25T01:23:09 < zyp> of course
2022-02-25T01:23:20 < kakium69> yeaas
2022-02-25T01:23:32 < zyp> or idk, not sure about the specific details around that
2022-02-25T01:24:50 < zyp> but I mean, constexpr implies that the function itself can be part of a constant expression, i.e. for a constructor that calculating initial values can be done at compile time
2022-02-25T01:26:12 < kakium69> I have consts in my class
2022-02-25T01:26:28 < kakium69> so only way to initialize those is constexpr constructor
2022-02-25T01:26:29 < kakium69> ?
2022-02-25T01:27:02 < zyp> nope, normal constructors can too, but you have to use initializers
2022-02-25T01:28:00 < kakium69> something = parameter thing?
2022-02-25T01:28:51 < zyp> Foo() : asdf(123) {}
2022-02-25T01:29:59 < karlp> elf64-littleriscv' does not match `elf32-littleriscv
2022-02-25T01:30:01 < karlp> bah
2022-02-25T01:30:11 < karlp> one doc said "you can use riscv64 to do riscv32.
2022-02-25T01:30:14 < karlp> guess it was wrong.
2022-02-25T01:30:22 < zyp> works for me
2022-02-25T01:30:51 < karlp> yeah, it probably _should_
2022-02-25T01:31:38 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/b9aTq
2022-02-25T01:31:49  * karlp downloads a riscv32 from the same place just for fun...
2022-02-25T01:34:52  * karlp start committing to laks again ;)
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2022-02-25T01:35:31 < zyp> appreciate it :)
2022-02-25T01:35:59 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/0d286613aea5f9be9e2fa13933cdc30f8329d357
2022-02-25T01:37:40 < karlp> well, freertos for riscv soudns a _lot_ more involved :)
2022-02-25T01:37:48 < karlp> I might have to actually think :)
2022-02-25T01:38:00 < karlp> ok, this is downloading too slowly. fuck waiting on this now
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2022-02-25T01:45:43 < karlp> v32-unknown-elf/lib/libc_nano.a(lib_a-memset.o): can't link double-float modules with soft-float modules
2022-02-25T01:45:45 < karlp> more fun :)
2022-02-25T01:52:23 < tct> o/
2022-02-25T01:52:25 < tct> hello people
2022-02-25T01:53:39 < zyp> hello tct
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2022-02-25T02:48:52 < Laurenceb> looks like russians getting pwnd
2022-02-25T02:48:55 < Laurenceb> paper tiger
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2022-02-25T03:08:08 < kakium69> apparently they have encountered some resistance
2022-02-25T03:11:37 < kakium69> solders have low morale most of them are just thrown into action
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2022-02-25T08:04:07 < jpa-> karlp: mostly i use pio command line, to start build / tests / debugger; for now i'm mostly using it for downloading libs & building & include path management, but i've tried the test stuff and it seems pretty ok also
2022-02-25T08:04:31 < jpa-> of the IDE stuff i do use platformio to automatically configure vscode
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2022-02-25T08:29:28 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/W1mTEpw.png
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2022-02-25T12:38:04 < karlp> I take it you didn't want it to hit into the honeycomb?
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2022-02-25T12:52:02 < invzim> goddamnit elfa distrelec, sent me the wrong connectors :(
2022-02-25T12:53:50 < invzim> ordered JST S5B-EH and got some SMT thing instead, I hope they actually have the right part in stock
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2022-02-25T14:48:28 < tct> hello people
2022-02-25T15:30:01 < invzim> blergh, elfa is out of stock like veryone else it seems, anyone got a bag/reel of JST S5B-EH laying about? :)
2022-02-25T15:32:54 < jpa-> aren't quite many 2.5mm pitch headers compatible with JST EH series?
2022-02-25T15:34:35 < jpa-> though looks like quite many of them are out of stock also
2022-02-25T15:36:37 < Steffanx> Hello fellow people person tct
2022-02-25T15:37:06 < Steffanx> How's life in the safe mountains of swisserland?
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2022-02-25T15:44:21 < invzim> jpa-: EH housing/cable has to fit, there is something on aliexpress though
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2022-02-25T15:49:16 < tct> Steffanx, well
2022-02-25T15:49:42 < tct> Steffanx, I mean ¨well....¨ (as in, not having much to say - not as in ¨live is well¨
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2022-02-25T15:49:59 < tct> although I do guess most of us here are not in a position to complain.
2022-02-25T15:50:56 < ventYl> that statement might be a subject of temporality
2022-02-25T16:00:46 < tct> certainly
2022-02-25T16:02:12 < jpa-> tct: was your baby born yet?
2022-02-25T16:03:50 < tct> three days ago
2022-02-25T16:03:57 < tct> male
2022-02-25T16:04:00 < tct> slightly over 4kg
2022-02-25T16:04:49 < jpa-> have you been changing diapers yet?
2022-02-25T16:05:37 < tct> nah, I leave that part to my sister and her husband
2022-02-25T16:05:53 < tct> I have yet to figure out how to interact with a baby
2022-02-25T16:07:48 < benishor> tct: in the first day I brought mine home, I was scared af while sleeping next to him
2022-02-25T16:07:55 < benishor> actually it's fair to say I didn't sleep at all
2022-02-25T16:08:09 < benishor> fresh born babies tend to make a lot of noises and have tachycardia
2022-02-25T16:08:19 < tct> benishor, hello & welcome (don´t recall having seen your nick here before)
2022-02-25T16:08:32 < benishor> as they adapt to conditions outside the womb
2022-02-25T16:08:33 < tct> benishor, just to clarify as you might not know the backstory: itś not my baby, it´s my sister´.
2022-02-25T16:08:43 < benishor> tct: hi back, I'm merely a traveler :)
2022-02-25T16:08:48 < tct> :)
2022-02-25T16:08:50 < benishor> tct: ah, ok :)
2022-02-25T16:09:06 < benishor> then you're all good
2022-02-25T16:09:23 < tct> benishor, the essence here being that I think that I´m grossely underqualified for being a father.
2022-02-25T16:10:02 < benishor> I was shit scared when I became one. I don't think there's anyone who's ready
2022-02-25T16:10:59 < benishor> but once you become one, there's no other way than to just go along with it :)
2022-02-25T16:11:24 < tct> that particular aspect I´m aware of which is why I try to avoid it
2022-02-25T16:27:14 < tct> I strongly prefer not to do something than doing it poorly.
2022-02-25T16:33:14 < karlp> lol
2022-02-25T16:33:23 < karlp> if it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing poorly.
2022-02-25T16:34:43 < tct> I´m coming more from the side of everything worth doing is worth doing right.
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2022-02-25T16:42:56 < benishor> nothing prepares you for that :)
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2022-02-25T17:08:27 < jpa-> tct: are you actually able to follow that principle?
2022-02-25T17:11:06 < jpa-> i generally find that when i do things, i learn things, and figure out that i didn't do things "right"
2022-02-25T17:11:24 < jpa-> so that leaves the options of either not doing anything in first place (and not learning), or just repeating same thing over and over uselessly
2022-02-25T17:11:39 < ventYl> ever tried? ever failed? no matter! try again! fail again! fail better!
2022-02-25T17:27:45 < tct> jpa-, I get what you mean - I agree with that.
2022-02-25T17:28:08 < tct> anyway, I guess I´m not gonna sell any µGFX licenses to russians any time soon
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2022-02-25T17:36:55 < karlp> lol, silabs tooling uses 'os.path.join(file, "..") + "/" + "extra bit"'
2022-02-25T17:37:00 < karlp> .... you were so close!
2022-02-25T17:37:29 < karlp> I wonder if I can submit this too them..
2022-02-25T17:38:37 < tct> I´m currently working with some NDA´d chipset of AnalogDevices. They shared their host drivers as part of that. All seemed fine until I was spotting an   #include <windows.h>   in one of the driver files :D
2022-02-25T17:38:50 < tct> they reported back earlier that it was a silly mistake on their side and that they will release a fix ASAP
2022-02-25T17:39:08 < tct> host driver -> MCU stuff.
2022-02-25T17:39:34 < ventYl> I've heard that a lot of weird comes out of AD these days
2022-02-25T17:39:47 < ventYl> s/weird/\0 shit/
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2022-02-25T17:44:28 < Steffanx> Tct: Russians will just take the sores. Like they care about the license.
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2022-02-25T17:47:23 < jpa-> i get weird includes in my files also sometimes when some IDE suggests some header that happens to have a define :D
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2022-02-25T19:29:54 < benishor> teh fuck
2022-02-25T19:30:00 < benishor> russians threatened .fi?
2022-02-25T19:30:03 < benishor> and .se?
2022-02-25T19:33:16 < jpa-> we have an entire shelf in library about books where russia gets angry because finland contemplates joining NATO
2022-02-25T19:37:04 < benishor> yes, but I mean the last instance
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2022-02-25T21:10:48 < kakium69> hello ##warroom32
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2022-02-25T21:22:03 < kakium69> Laurenceb: war report plz
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2022-02-25T21:42:47 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8xU7Au9goM okay cat videos then
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2022-02-25T21:49:03 < benishor> lol https://twitter.com/YourAnonTV/status/1497273131567828992
2022-02-25T21:49:22 < Steffanx> Apparently this crazy brit is on the way to Kiev kakium69  
2022-02-25T21:49:55 < Steffanx> First in Afghanistan, then south Sudan and more, now Ukraine 
2022-02-25T21:50:44 < kakium69> that white boy summer thing?
2022-02-25T21:51:11 < Steffanx> Yeah
2022-02-25T21:51:21 < kakium69> as an observer?
2022-02-25T21:52:30 < Steffanx> https://twitter.com/LordVesconte
2022-02-25T21:53:55 < kakium69> it's good he found his passion
2022-02-25T21:56:48 < kakium69> he roasts some CNN chick in his twitter
2022-02-25T21:56:55 < kakium69> based
2022-02-25T21:59:33 < kakium69> some people with hard war boner actually leave their countries and pass as civilians to east europe right now
2022-02-25T22:00:37 < kakium69> it's interesting there are such people that just go to war where ever the war is
2022-02-25T22:08:29 < kakium69> can class has multiple publics and privates
2022-02-25T22:08:31 < kakium69> ?
2022-02-25T22:09:06 < kakium69> nevermind good practices
2022-02-25T22:10:57 < Steffanx> ;)
2022-02-25T22:11:39 < kakium69> I just wonder
2022-02-25T22:12:00 < Steffanx> Don't forget about protected
2022-02-25T22:12:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-02-25T22:12:34 < Steffanx> No
2022-02-25T22:12:45 < kakium69> musics?
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2022-02-25T22:16:40 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/wpV-gGA4PSk
2022-02-25T22:18:55 < kakium69> :)
2022-02-25T22:19:18 < kakium69> somebody had fun with this
2022-02-25T22:39:13 < bitmask> and shouldnt have
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2022-02-25T22:41:16 < catphish> wow, energy prices have gone mad https://i.imgur.com/uE81dZO.png
2022-02-25T22:43:48 < karlp> lol
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2022-02-25T22:45:36 < specing> What's standing charge?
2022-02-25T22:46:52 < kakium69> catphish: rather reasonable given the situation
2022-02-25T22:48:57 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-02-25T22:49:08 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/1497291728080060418?cxt=HHwWhIC-lZm5uccpAAAA
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2022-02-25T22:56:54 < karlp> zyp: the riscv-collab release is single arch by default, so I'm just building a multilib from scratch instead of searchinf for another one.
2022-02-25T22:57:04 < karlp> specing: per day charge, just for having a connection
2022-02-25T22:57:32 < catphish> specing: standing charge is what you have to pay them just to be connected, basically a fuck you fee
2022-02-25T22:58:04 < catphish> i guess it covers maintenance of unused infrastructure
2022-02-25T22:59:03 < catphish> kakium69: the situation isn't reasonable :)
2022-02-25T23:01:42 < kakium69> it haven't been for a while now
2022-02-25T23:02:40 < catphish> the annoying (but lucky i guess) part is that the UK has a perfectly good energy supply of its own, but of course we have to bit for our own energy on the international market
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2022-02-25T23:03:00 < kakium69> it goes for market price anyways
2022-02-25T23:03:10 < kakium69> else the companies are leaving money on the table
2022-02-25T23:04:28 < zyp> catphish, huh, you're paying a fixed rate per kWh?
2022-02-25T23:04:37 < zyp> is that the norm there?
2022-02-25T23:05:21 < karlp> it's same here, 
2022-02-25T23:05:22 < catphish> zyp: yes, how do you do it?
2022-02-25T23:05:46 < karlp> in .au it was split tarrif for "off peak" but it had a physically separate meter that only operated during certain hours
2022-02-25T23:05:51 < karlp> not sure what it's like these days.
2022-02-25T23:06:07 < kakium69> dual meter would be nice
2022-02-25T23:06:10 < zyp> I pay market rate, varies by the hour
2022-02-25T23:06:29 < catphish> zyp: isn't that dangerous? they did that in USA and people ended up getting bankrupt, is it capped?
2022-02-25T23:06:34 < zyp> here's last week: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2PTTo.jpg
2022-02-25T23:06:41 < zyp> nope
2022-02-25T23:06:46 < karlp> they did that in _texas_ which is totally separate from the rest of the us grid
2022-02-25T23:06:51 < kakium69> here spot price or fixed rate
2022-02-25T23:06:57 < catphish> yeah that texas thing sucked
2022-02-25T23:06:59 < zyp> yeah, this is spot price
2022-02-25T23:07:05 < bitmask> inside a lack table: https://i.imgur.com/W1mTEpw.png
2022-02-25T23:07:09 < kakium69> you can choose the product what you want
2022-02-25T23:07:10 < catphish> but yeah, it's fixed price here, the government caps it
2022-02-25T23:07:29 < karlp> bitmask: that's frrom this morning?
2022-02-25T23:07:43 < catphish> in the UK you can choose to have split day/night rates, traditionally this was done with dual meters, but now it's done with electronic "smart" meters
2022-02-25T23:07:48 < zyp> there are fixed price agreements here too, but they are usually more expensive in the long run
2022-02-25T23:08:11 < kakium69> bitmask: planning to hide something in there?
2022-02-25T23:08:41 < bitmask> karlp yea or last night, it was around midnight?
2022-02-25T23:08:54 < bitmask> kakium69 yea a 16x16" concrete paving stone
2022-02-25T23:09:02 < bitmask> to rest my printer on
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2022-02-25T23:09:12 < kakium69> I thought money and drugs
2022-02-25T23:09:25 < bitmask> i wish
2022-02-25T23:09:31 < kakium69> I wish too
2022-02-25T23:09:41 < Laurenceb> Pornhub has introduced sanctions against a lot of Russian young ladies
2022-02-25T23:10:07 < bitmask> how can I cut this pool noodle evenly... I really dont want to make a hot wire cutter
2022-02-25T23:10:21 < machinehum> Box cutter
2022-02-25T23:10:26 < machinehum> Extend the blade real long
2022-02-25T23:10:43 < bitmask> im using a saw, its still impossible to cut straight
2022-02-25T23:10:48 < bitmask> i need guides of some sort
2022-02-25T23:11:04 < machinehum> How straight?
2022-02-25T23:11:12 < machinehum> A box cutter with long blade should be fine
2022-02-25T23:11:16 < bitmask> maybe add some thin wood sheets into my vice to hold it in and cut along the sheets
2022-02-25T23:11:21 < catphish> i refurbished a borrowed chainsaw today, best get some wood cut up :)
2022-02-25T23:11:55 < qyx> catphish: preparing for a no-gas future?
2022-02-25T23:11:56 < bitmask> i just want it to be the same height everywhere, i dont want the concrete paver going on it to be uneven at all
2022-02-25T23:12:13 < bitmask> i think im overthinking this haha
2022-02-25T23:12:30 < bitmask> i guess any unevenness will be evened out the weight of the paver
2022-02-25T23:13:56 < kakium69> you think that table will hold?
2022-02-25T23:14:07 < catphish> qyx: seems sane to be extra ready for next winter, if only to be frugal :)
2022-02-25T23:14:43 < kakium69> europe will be a mess
2022-02-25T23:15:03 < kakium69> sooner rather than later
2022-02-25T23:15:20 < bitmask> kakium69 yea
2022-02-25T23:15:34 < bitmask> it will be fine vertically, it just cant handle anything horizontally
2022-02-25T23:15:41 < bitmask> a strong wind will collapse it :P
2022-02-25T23:16:09 < catphish> i'm happy with my island
2022-02-25T23:16:18 < bitmask> by the way, im putting this cut up table ontop of an uncut up table
2022-02-25T23:16:31 < bitmask> without the legs
2022-02-25T23:16:41 < bitmask> so its two tabletops supporting it
2022-02-25T23:17:00 < kakium69> ah
2022-02-25T23:17:08 < kakium69> yeah that is what I was asking
2022-02-25T23:33:47 < kakium69> in c++ int16_t is std::int16_t
2022-02-25T23:35:28 < karlp> fucking looks like half the time of this toolchain build is git cloning and packing.
2022-02-25T23:36:12 < karlp> gonna jus tlet it do it's thing, but I feel like the default should have had a few --depth=1 options in the auto submodule checkouts :)
2022-02-25T23:40:30 < mawk> you can still use int16_t in C++
2022-02-25T23:40:32 < mawk> don't have to use the ugly std::
2022-02-25T23:41:40 < kakium69> good
2022-02-25T23:41:49 < kakium69> I don't have cstdint anyways
2022-02-25T23:43:03 < BrainDamage> bitmask: get a shitty knife and heat it on the stove
2022-02-25T23:43:27 < kakium69> can I make one line comments to open paretheses?
2022-02-25T23:43:35 < kakium69> multiline open paretheses
2022-02-25T23:43:37 < mawk> what does that mean
2022-02-25T23:43:48 < kakium69> void function(
2022-02-25T23:43:58 < mawk> the whitespace doesn't count in C++, you can do whatever you want
2022-02-25T23:44:04 < mawk> yes you can
2022-02-25T23:44:06 < kakium69> type parameter,      //hello
2022-02-25T23:44:08 < kakium69> ...
2022-02-25T23:44:10 < mawk> the comments are stripped from the source before compilation
2022-02-25T23:44:10 < kakium69> ...
2022-02-25T23:44:12 < kakium69> )
2022-02-25T23:44:27 < BrainDamage> you can put it anywhere
2022-02-25T23:44:35 < BrainDamage> just not in the mid of code
2022-02-25T23:44:48 < kakium69> it wont be stripped from there?
2022-02-25T23:44:49 < BrainDamage> you can even do
2022-02-25T23:44:52 < BrainDamage> int hi
2022-02-25T23:44:55 < mawk> yes it works here kakium69 
2022-02-25T23:45:01 < BrainDamage>  //comment
2022-02-25T23:45:03 < BrainDamage> ;
2022-02-25T23:45:08 < BrainDamage> in 3 lines
2022-02-25T23:45:44 < BrainDamage> what you obviously can't do is int hi //comment;
2022-02-25T23:45:50 < BrainDamage> because the ; gets commented
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2022-02-25T23:46:18 < BrainDamage> but int hi //comment
2022-02-25T23:46:19 < BrainDamage> ;
2022-02-25T23:46:21 < BrainDamage> works
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2022-02-25T23:49:35 < kakium69> so //removes everything including itself until the newline
2022-02-25T23:49:55 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-02-25T23:50:17 < karlp> fucking built a riscv toolchain without c++?! 
2022-02-25T23:50:28 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2022-02-25T23:50:35 < karlp> and fucking autofail can't tell me wha tthe feature options available are, just "use --enable-FEATURE" to turn it on!
2022-02-25T23:51:27 < mawk> lol
2022-02-25T23:51:32 < mawk> you can grep in configure.ac
2022-02-25T23:51:39 < mawk> user-friendliness 20/20
2022-02-25T23:52:40 < karlp> yeah, already tried finding it in configure.ac.
2022-02-25T23:52:49 < karlp> I feel like it must have failed on some dep, but not told me...
2022-02-25T23:53:42 < karlp> it built stage 1 with --enable-languages=c,c++
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--- Day changed Sat Feb 26 2022
2022-02-26T00:03:59 < karlp> extern/laks/mmio/mmio.h:3:10: fatal error: cstdint: No such file or directory
2022-02-26T00:04:11 < karlp> this is why we fucking hate building our own toolchain
2022-02-26T00:04:27 < karlp> wasn't kaks just fighting the same header?
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2022-02-26T00:10:18 < kakium69> not even fighting
2022-02-26T00:11:50 < kakium69> I don't have std
2022-02-26T00:12:09 < kakium69> it's not a sort of problem I'm ready to fight atm.
2022-02-26T00:12:38 < kakium69> what riscv you are doing?
2022-02-26T00:16:32 < Steffanx> I'm glad to hear you have no std kaki 
2022-02-26T00:16:41 < karlp> gd32vf103 just to test I've got things working, then ch582
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2022-02-26T00:53:40 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/s8zY9cA.jpeg
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2022-02-26T01:46:07 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497308650725122049%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=
2022-02-26T01:46:09 < Laurenceb> sheeetttt
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2022-02-26T02:07:46 < Laurenceb> ww3 about to start and my car is broken
2022-02-26T02:08:34 < jadew> where the hell would you go with it? the war is coming from the east and there's nothing west of you
2022-02-26T02:09:14 < BrainDamage> russia can do as it pleases exactly because nobody wants ww3
2022-02-26T02:09:22 < jadew> yeah
2022-02-26T02:10:15 < jadew> also, any sanctions on russia is a sanction on everyone else too
2022-02-26T02:11:48 < aandrew> jadew: how are things in .ro? my wife's pretty anxious for her family
2022-02-26T02:12:13 < jadew> aandrew, we're only in danger if ww3 breaks out
2022-02-26T02:12:28 < catphish> maybe it did
2022-02-26T02:12:29 < jadew> so we're hoping that won't happen
2022-02-26T02:12:40 < jadew> catphish, maybe it did, yeah... hopefully not
2022-02-26T02:12:41 < catphish> world wars aren't declared all at once
2022-02-26T02:12:47 < catphish> lets hope not
2022-02-26T02:13:21 < jadew> currently there's no indication that the war could spill out of Ukraine
2022-02-26T02:14:32 < catphish> ^ this - no cause to worry
2022-02-26T02:16:30 < jadew> I just hope it's an economic play, and that old style conquering is behind us
2022-02-26T02:17:02 < BrainDamage> they could also limit themselves to wreck the country
2022-02-26T02:17:08 < BrainDamage> as a showoff
2022-02-26T02:17:22 < jadew> it doesn't seem like that's their intention, at least not yet
2022-02-26T02:20:05 < BrainDamage> one thing is sure tho, putin is the asshole, but we've failed ukraine by handing it
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2022-02-26T02:22:07 < jadew> I just hope the conflict ends quick, with minimal loss of life
2022-02-26T02:22:55 < emeb_mac> ^this
2022-02-26T02:23:17 < emeb_mac> also surprised there's shit going down where US isn't #1 asshole.
2022-02-26T02:23:51 < BrainDamage> refreshing? :P
2022-02-26T02:24:18 < catphish> lol nice for a different superpower to be invading for once :)
2022-02-26T02:25:09 < jadew> what I found very weird was that all men are prohibited to leave Ukraine
2022-02-26T02:25:21 < BrainDamage> conscription
2022-02-26T02:25:27 < BrainDamage> and sexism
2022-02-26T02:25:30 < emeb_mac> well, men 18-60
2022-02-26T02:25:39 < catphish> conscription seems plausible, sane even
2022-02-26T02:25:45 < emeb_mac> but they had 80yo dude show up for service
2022-02-26T02:26:02 < catphish> of course, people will seek refuge elsewhere anyway
2022-02-26T02:26:13 < catphish> i saw that photo
2022-02-26T02:26:17 < catphish> propaganda much :)
2022-02-26T02:26:23 < BrainDamage> yeah, but conscription shouldn't be limited to guys, if anything, to give a chance to the women to have training
2022-02-26T02:26:24 < aandrew> my concern is less Ukraine and more Taiwan
2022-02-26T02:26:30 < aandrew> China's just waiting to see what is happenning
2022-02-26T02:26:35 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's a bad precedent
2022-02-26T02:26:51 < catphish> aandrew: both seem equally worrying, it's just that russia moved first
2022-02-26T02:26:52 < emeb_mac> TSMC halting shipments to .ru
2022-02-26T02:26:53 < BrainDamage> if russia can get away with it, so other countries can
2022-02-26T02:27:12 < emeb_mac> .tw in sympathy with ukraine?
2022-02-26T02:27:18 < jadew> *so can equally large countries :)
2022-02-26T02:27:19 < catphish> interesting that USA doesn't dispute any territory with neighbours like other large powers
2022-02-26T02:27:36 < jadew> emeb_mac, probably, their situation is similar, except with China
2022-02-26T02:27:45 < emeb_mac> jadew: yes, that.
2022-02-26T02:28:06 < emeb_mac> catphish: yeah - we've only got two neighbors and we get along OK with them.
2022-02-26T02:28:08 < catphish> i guess USA already largey won war with mexico
2022-02-26T02:28:26 < catphish> california was the disputed territory
2022-02-26T02:28:31 < catphish> and USA already took it
2022-02-26T02:28:42 < BrainDamage> canada burned the white house once
2022-02-26T02:28:43 < emeb_mac> although our right-wingers love sending monies to canadian truckers.
2022-02-26T02:29:05 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_California
2022-02-26T02:29:29 < catphish> USA took all important lands and managed to hang onto them :)
2022-02-26T02:30:05 < jadew> left he arid stuff to mexicans and the frozen land to canadians?
2022-02-26T02:30:34 < catphish> weird that USA kept that cold bit in the north
2022-02-26T02:30:53 < BrainDamage> not too wrong if you consider that the majority of canadian population lives at the border with the us
2022-02-26T02:30:58 < emeb_mac> nah - Mexico has plenty of nice land. AZ and NM are pretty dry and dusty.
2022-02-26T02:31:04 < jadew> catphish, probably wanted to be close to russia :)
2022-02-26T02:31:27 < BrainDamage> altough there's the thing that being close also allows better commerce
2022-02-26T02:31:33 < BrainDamage> along avoiding the cold tundra
2022-02-26T02:32:33 < jadew> I wonder how they decided where the US ends and where Canda begins... it's like they drew a straight line
2022-02-26T02:32:49 < emeb_mac> and US "bought" Gadsden purchase from Mexico which forms part of Arizona.
2022-02-26T02:33:15 < catphish> china is way more confusing
2022-02-26T02:34:07 < emeb_mac> why is china confusing?
2022-02-26T02:34:52 < catphish> well, mostly the territorial claims of PRC and ROC, and my lack of understanding of the status of hong kong
2022-02-26T02:35:24 < catphish> and iird other places in that region where maps vary according to who published them
2022-02-26T02:35:31 < catphish> *iirc
2022-02-26T02:36:33 < emeb_mac> yup - then there's that whole Tibet thing
2022-02-26T02:37:21 < Laurenceb> keeek russians are too busy raiidng mcdonalds to fight
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2022-02-26T02:39:21 < emeb_mac> get some of those sweet, sweet french fries.
2022-02-26T02:40:07 < Laurenceb> oh sheeeeettt
2022-02-26T02:40:08 < Laurenceb> keeek
2022-02-26T02:40:21 < Laurenceb> Lord Miles has entered the battlefield
2022-02-26T02:40:48 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/LordVesconte?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497330105118597121%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
2022-02-26T02:43:19 < Laurenceb> oh shit ahahaha
2022-02-26T02:43:27 < Laurenceb> he's gunna get conscripted
2022-02-26T02:43:35 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2022-02-26T02:43:51 < Laurenceb> epic prank bro
2022-02-26T02:46:47 < BrainDamage> at least Laurenceb's safe from conscription, all he needs is some copy of his chat logs to get waived off for extreme mental disturbances
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2022-02-26T02:49:02 < catphish> i'm thinking of having my wife confined for mental health evaluation, tonight we had reheated pizza for dinner, she specifically asked me not to reheat hers in the oven so that she could microwave it instead :
2022-02-26T02:49:22 < catphish> this can't be the actions of a sane person
2022-02-26T02:49:58 < jadew> I never considered reheating pizza in the oven, that's brilliant
2022-02-26T02:50:20 < jadew> it's like... new pizza
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2022-02-26T02:51:33 < catphish> i always feared it would dry out or burn, but it doesn't, it's just like fresh pizza again
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2022-02-26T02:52:03 < jadew> I will give it a try tomorrow
2022-02-26T02:52:27 < catphish> i give it 9 minutes
2022-02-26T02:54:32 < catphish> good luck
2022-02-26T03:19:27 < Laurenceb> >when u enter a battlezone for an epic prank but end up getting conscripted
2022-02-26T03:26:51 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/ELINTNews/status/1497378435890618368#m
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2022-02-26T03:39:45 < jadew> https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/ukrainian-women-say-russian-troops-are-flirting-with-them-on-tinder/
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2022-02-26T03:56:23 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2022-02-26T03:56:25 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.eu/pic/media%2FFMeFaNEWYAQ125d.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-02-26T03:56:38 < Laurenceb> tactical thots have been unleashed
2022-02-26T03:58:39 < Laurenceb> they will take your virginity and your life
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2022-02-26T04:15:15 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/PMYfnwc.png?1
2022-02-26T04:15:21 < bitmask> fits poifectly
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2022-02-26T04:56:46 < ColdKeyboard> Does STM32G031 support I2C slave mode? I assume yes but I'm looking at Cube MX to generate a starting point and can't figure out how it will configure interrupts and stuff when I2C packet is received
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2022-02-26T08:29:28 < ColdKeyboard> Also, how do you configure the PF2 to be the reset pin? Can't find where is that mentioned in the ref manual
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2022-02-26T13:50:05 < Laurenceb> idea for Ukies: QR codes and smartphone app to verify that fighters are legit
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2022-02-26T14:29:01 < specing> call it the european red pass
2022-02-26T14:29:56 < BrainDamage> red piss
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2022-02-26T16:51:58 < mawk> I'm making ecig liquid
2022-02-26T16:53:07 < Steffanx> Again?
2022-02-26T16:53:14 < mawk> what do you mean again
2022-02-26T16:53:27 < mawk> I go through like 5-10mL/day
2022-02-26T16:53:30 < mawk> so I need to make some regularly
2022-02-26T16:53:40 < mawk> today I will mix menthol and grapefruit flavor
2022-02-26T16:54:35 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-26T16:54:52 < mawk> then I'll install my brand new router
2022-02-26T16:54:55 < BrainDamage> do you like, buy industrial insecticide?
2022-02-26T16:55:13 < mawk> I guess yes BrainDamage 
2022-02-26T16:55:18 < mawk> I buy concentrated nicotine
2022-02-26T16:55:24 < mawk> but they say it's safe for human consumption
2022-02-26T16:55:27 < mawk> so it should be fine
2022-02-26T16:55:40 < mawk> I used to buy it at a website that sold it explicitly to be used in ecigarettes
2022-02-26T16:55:42 < Steffanx> You should enjoy this wonderful sunny maskless day, mawk
2022-02-26T16:55:49 < mawk> but they shut down after the US law changed on exportation of nicotine
2022-02-26T16:55:53 < mawk> I have to find a new website
2022-02-26T16:56:03 < mawk> yes Steffanx I will go outside later to finish my roll of film
2022-02-26T16:57:08 < mawk> I want to keep the masks on Steffanx 
2022-02-26T16:57:21 < mawk> it's warm, and it hides my face for maximum privacy
2022-02-26T16:57:37 < mawk> and it prevents cholera-ridden dutch people from coughing on my face
2022-02-26T16:58:03 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2022-02-26T16:59:42 < mawk> hmm my menthol isn't actually menthol
2022-02-26T16:59:51 < Steffanx> I hate the masks. Makes my glasses foggy 
2022-02-26T17:00:13 < mawk> it is: l-carvone, methyl cinnamate, furaneol
2022-02-26T17:00:17 < mawk> sounds nice and chemical
2022-02-26T17:00:26 < mawk> it tastes like mint chewing gum
2022-02-26T17:00:29 < mawk> ah you wear glasses Steffanx 
2022-02-26T17:00:36 < mawk> why? aren't you happy with the eyes god gave you?
2022-02-26T17:02:03 < Steffanx> No, God gave me bad eyes
2022-02-26T17:02:09 < mawk> bad god
2022-02-26T17:02:58 < Steffanx> And bad mucous membranes too
2022-02-26T17:03:23 < Steffanx> And dry eyes.
2022-02-26T17:06:31 < mawk> that sucks
2022-02-26T17:06:40 < mawk> have your gf break your heart, your eyes will moisten
2022-02-26T17:06:57 < Steffanx> That's only temporary 
2022-02-26T17:07:06 < mawk> pain is eternal
2022-02-26T17:07:09 < Steffanx> And if she's a bitch I probably won't care
2022-02-26T17:07:12 < mawk> lol
2022-02-26T17:07:19 < mawk> you have no gf currently??
2022-02-26T17:09:01 < mawk> I'll install my router now
2022-02-26T17:09:06 < mawk> if I don't come back it means I'm a bad sysadmi 
2022-02-26T17:09:07 < mawk> n
2022-02-26T17:09:11 < mawk> or it means I'm dead
2022-02-26T17:11:23 < Steffanx> No such thing here mawk.
2022-02-26T17:11:53 < Steffanx> No I'm not interested in your French ex gf 😋
2022-02-26T17:12:27 < mawk> lol
2022-02-26T17:12:35 < mawk> do you have a bf then maybe?
2022-02-26T17:13:34 < Steffanx> Currently I'm not interested in boyfriends, I'm worry mawk
2022-02-26T17:13:37 < Steffanx> Sorry*
2022-02-26T17:14:22  * specing read that as "I'd marry mawk"
2022-02-26T17:15:33 < mawk> :(
2022-02-26T17:15:47 < mawk> I forgot which ip I gave to my switch
2022-02-26T17:17:03 < BrainDamage> why do you have a managed switch?
2022-02-26T17:17:29 < mawk> my current router is a raspberry pi, and it has only 1 ethernet port
2022-02-26T17:17:43 < mawk> so to give it both a WAN port and a LAN port I used a managed switch with vlan magic to make a "virtual" ethernet port
2022-02-26T17:17:52 < BrainDamage> ._.
2022-02-26T17:17:56 < mawk> what
2022-02-26T17:17:59 < mawk> it works perfectly well
2022-02-26T17:18:06 < mawk> but the pi doesn't have very good wifi perf so I'm replacing it
2022-02-26T17:18:11 < englishman> when i had a managed switch, i bought it because buying used cisco equipment was cheaper than buying a new, 16-port desktop switch
2022-02-26T17:18:11 < BrainDamage> yeah, but super prone to misconfiguration
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2022-02-26T17:18:20 < mawk> why BrainDamage 
2022-02-26T17:18:26 < mawk> it's not misconfigured, I hope
2022-02-26T17:18:53 < mawk> and it's simply tagging one vlan to go out of one port, you can't mess this up
2022-02-26T17:19:16 < mawk> I found the ip of my switch, but now I forgot the password
2022-02-26T17:19:18 < mawk> perfect
2022-02-26T17:19:55 < mawk> ah no I found now
2022-02-26T17:41:19 < mawk> it seems to have worked, at least for ipv4
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2022-02-26T18:54:51 < mawk> and ipv6 works now too
2022-02-26T18:55:08 < mawk> but it's kinda a shitty router, I can't configure anything
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2022-02-26T18:55:37 < mawk> even my isp router back in france was able to route out part of the /60 to certain clients
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2022-02-26T20:29:32 < catphish> wow JLC charging £27 for a STM32 now! and it's still not a bad option
2022-02-26T20:36:08 < Steffanx> Yes it is, because next time you'll be even more screwed because they won't have any.
2022-02-26T20:36:23 < Steffanx> Esp32 on the other hand is readily available 
2022-02-26T20:39:08 < catphish> ESP32 is not STM32 though :'(
2022-02-26T20:46:59 < mawk> for which stm32
2022-02-26T20:50:00 < qyx> hopefully there will be enough stm32 soon
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2022-02-26T21:08:32 < catphish> F103
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2022-02-26T21:29:28 < Steffanx> F103.... who uses that in 2022?
2022-02-26T21:31:13 < Steffanx> With something L/Gxxx you're in more luck. Unless you need CAN
2022-02-26T21:31:35 < Steffanx> Or smaller F0.
2022-02-26T21:44:44 < Mangy_Dog> k>.>
2022-02-26T21:44:49 < Mangy_Dog> <.<
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2022-02-26T22:13:34 < catphish> i'm just building someone elses (old) design
2022-02-26T22:13:54 < catphish> and F103 still works great, no matter how old it is :)
2022-02-26T22:30:33 < Steffanx> Maybe, but its also one of those VERY hard to get
2022-02-26T22:30:46 < Steffanx> unless you go for a "clone"
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2022-02-26T22:43:52 < catphish> how do people cut down trees without dying? i'm cutting down a couple in my garden, i've had one large branch land on my head, and the chainsaw knocked in unexpected directions twice
2022-02-26T22:44:18 < catphish> i clearly need to learn to do this better :)
2022-02-26T22:46:51 < Steffanx> Try to be safe catphish, we cant lose you
2022-02-26T22:46:57 < mawk> you need to hire someone to die for you catphish 
2022-02-26T22:46:59 < mawk> that's how it works
2022-02-26T22:47:20 < Steffanx> hire mawk
2022-02-26T22:47:35 < mawk> :(
2022-02-26T22:47:56 < Steffanx> lol
2022-02-26T22:51:22 < catphish> Steffanx: i think you'd do just fine without me :)
2022-02-26T22:51:52 < catphish> on the other hand, i quite enjoy living, and i don't think my wife would be happy
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2022-02-26T22:53:07 < englishman> i usually start with splinter netting, face and ear protection, gloves, chainsaw-proof pants, a clear work area and mother on speed-dial
2022-02-26T22:54:13 < catphish> my first mistake was to work in a t-shirt with no PPE and the floor littered with fallen branches
2022-02-26T22:54:52 < catphish> but that wasn't really as much of a problem as just not knowing how to correctly cut branches so they fall safely
2022-02-26T22:54:58 < catphish> i'm largely uninjured though
2022-02-26T22:57:05 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-26T22:57:10 < BrainDamage> were you strapped on the tree or were you standing on the ground?
2022-02-26T23:00:51 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-02-26T23:11:35 < catphish> BrainDamage: on the ground
2022-02-26T23:12:05 < karlp> well, blink works then.
2022-02-26T23:12:34 < karlp> jtag is slow as shit on this thing.
2022-02-26T23:12:40 < BrainDamage> how about bing then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GM4Lt5k24s
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 27 2022
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2022-02-27T00:29:21 < mawk> https://www.radarspots.com/oligarchs-flee-russia/
2022-02-27T00:29:34 < mawk> instead of being on flightradar for laughs that's what laurenceb should have done
2022-02-27T00:36:55 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-02-27T00:37:03 < Steffanx> There he is
2022-02-27T00:37:44 < mawk> Laurenceb: 
2022-02-27T00:37:46 < mawk> [23:29:21] <mawk> https://www.radarspots.com/oligarchs-flee-russia/
2022-02-27T00:37:57 < mawk> this is what you should've done on uamap and flightradar
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2022-02-27T01:41:24  * Laurenceb has repaired his common rail injectors with biro refills
2022-02-27T01:41:27 < Laurenceb> bad idea?
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2022-02-27T02:04:51 < englishman> yeah
2022-02-27T02:05:14 < englishman> injecting dead dinosaurs for personal propulsion is never a good idea
2022-02-27T02:10:00 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-02-27T02:10:18 < Laurenceb> biro refills are HDPE which should be ok right... ?
2022-02-27T02:24:32 < Steffanx> Proper ones are metal..
2022-02-27T02:25:35 < Steffanx> Time for a new car Laurenceb ?
2022-02-27T02:25:52 < Steffanx> Still the same shitty vauxhall?
2022-02-27T02:27:14 < Steffanx> If you need money, you can always get a dog Laurenceb 
2022-02-27T02:27:16 < Steffanx> https://omni.pet/blogs/news/you-can-get-paid-5-000-to-sniff-your-dog-s-poop
2022-02-27T02:31:05 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-02-27T02:54:07 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-02-27T02:54:30 < Laurenceb> >I posted up thread that Putin's toad-like features could be the result of heart or kidney problems causing him to retain water. Someone else replied that steroids have this effect
2022-02-27T02:54:57 < Laurenceb> >Roid Rage may go some way to explaining Putin's aggression.
2022-02-27T02:55:01 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
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2022-02-27T05:27:14 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone has a C driver for ssd1608? These things + random vendors slapping who knows what setup on the eink display is so wild
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2022-02-27T12:37:19 < jpa-> heh, lidl hot glue gun charges with USB-C; but manual says to only use the USB-C cable they supplied and indeed it doesn't seem to work with every USB-C cable
2022-02-27T12:37:36 < jpa-> looks like they are doing some kind of USB 2.0 battery charging stuff but with USB-C connector
2022-02-27T12:38:20 < jpa-> and possibly without the pulldown resistors and whatever
2022-02-27T12:39:27 < catphish> my guess: "USB 2.0 over USB C, but we forgot the CC resistors"
2022-02-27T12:39:50 < Steffanx> Joy..
2022-02-27T12:39:51 < catphish> but in that case, it should work with any USB A to C cable
2022-02-27T12:40:03 < jpa-> for some reason it doesn't like the gopro USB 3.0 A to C cable either
2022-02-27T12:40:53 < catphish> that one i can't explain, such a cable should do nothing but connect the 4 pins
2022-02-27T12:41:41 < catphish> i don't know how the fast charge stuff works though, so maybe something more complicated, or maybe it just doesn't plug in properly :)
2022-02-27T12:43:05 < jpa-> usb3 cable certainly connects more than 4 pins
2022-02-27T12:43:35 < jpa-> but yeah, i don't know why it doesn't work either, maybe the gopro cable has something funny
2022-02-27T12:47:00 < catphish> i meant an A to C cable only connects 4 pins, USB C needs at least 6, but i'd expect a cable to have more
2022-02-27T12:47:56 < jpa-> usb 3.0 A to C cable connects more than 4 pins
2022-02-27T12:52:41 < catphish> oh, you're right, i always forget 3.0 A exists
2022-02-27T12:53:33 < jpa-> USB 3.0 A is actually a pretty nice connector, has compatibility unlike the other 3.0 crap
2022-02-27T13:01:53 < catphish> yeah, 3.0 B is pretty rare, and micro-B even more rare
2022-02-27T13:02:08 < catphish> but A is a convenient backward compatible upgrade
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2022-02-27T15:04:38 < Steffanx> so which hot glue gun does mr jpa- have? https://imgur.com/a/HyMQxE2 ?
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2022-02-27T15:34:39 < Laurenceb> In Soviet Russia, comrade, suicide commits YOU! 
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2022-02-27T16:06:30 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, that one
2022-02-27T16:06:43 < jpa-> apart from the charging, it is actually pretty nice
2022-02-27T16:06:46 < jpa-> heats up in 15 sec
2022-02-27T16:06:51 < jpa-> and doesn't drip
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2022-02-27T17:47:47 < jpa-> PaulFertser: how is it in russia these days?
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2022-02-27T18:20:39 < Steffanx> PaulFertser has been awfully quiet lately..
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2022-02-27T18:30:59 < jpa-> active somewhere else though, so at least internet has not been cut off yet
2022-02-27T18:32:38 < Xogium> mm thought of mentioning him yesterday but I didn't dare
2022-02-27T18:33:16 < Xogium> have a blind friend living there, and he can't leave
2022-02-27T18:44:20 < Steffanx> Where?
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2022-02-27T18:44:30 < Steffanx> Russialand?
2022-02-27T18:44:34 < Xogium> yes
2022-02-27T18:49:07 < jpa-> "Russia has criminalised as “treason” any act it deems to be supportive of Ukraine, with the crime carrying a punishment of 20 years imprisonment, the Interfax news agency has reported."    may have good reasons to be silent
2022-02-27T18:50:16 < Xogium> what I think too
2022-02-27T18:51:13 < Xogium> still worried about them both
2022-02-27T18:51:35 < Xogium> PaulFertser is nice with everyone around here
2022-02-27T18:52:23 < jpa-> yeah, sucks to be in either country currently
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2022-02-27T19:14:01 < LikWidChz> Hi good morning, is there anyone around that might be able to help me troubleshoot an STM32 usb bootloader oddity? Im thinking its something pretty simple
2022-02-27T19:15:05 < jpa-> you may have yo actually ask your question before we can answer it
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2022-02-27T19:18:17 < LikWidChz> good point, when you flash on the usb bootloader onto the stm32 the first time prior to the first sketch being uploaded, what device shows up in device manager when plugging in USB?
2022-02-27T19:18:50 < jpa-> "the usb bootloader"?
2022-02-27T19:19:12 < jpa-> if it is a custom one (and not the built-in DFU bootloader), it will have the VID/PID specified in the bootloader source code
2022-02-27T19:19:58 < LikWidChz> JPA Im following this guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myon8H111PQ 
2022-02-27T19:20:16 < LikWidChz> notice 6 minutes 42 seconds in
2022-02-27T19:20:22 < jpa-> so, you use https://github.com/Serasidis/STM32_HID_Bootloader ?
2022-02-27T19:21:00 < LikWidChz> lemme see exactly
2022-02-27T19:21:35 < jpa-> then you should get "1209:BEBA STM32F HID Bootloader"
2022-02-27T19:22:30 < LikWidChz> Yes thats the one, okay I should see that in windows after I flash the bootloader, move the jumper, then attach usb prior to the first sketch being uploaded?
2022-02-27T19:22:49 < jpa-> i would assume so
2022-02-27T19:24:00 < LikWidChz> I have 3 of these that are being a pain, let me get one setup and ill screenshot
2022-02-27T19:26:15 < LikWidChz> ... sometimes I just hate windows whys it so hard to figure out what was just plugged in. 
2022-02-27T19:27:10 < jpa-> try usbtreeview  https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html
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2022-02-27T19:29:14 < LikWidChz> good call, peep this https://imgur.com/a/HNxBFCY
2022-02-27T19:30:25 < PaulFertser> jpa-: not much changed in russia yet, those who feel like it go to city centre and get arrested and then fined or 10-15 days of jail.
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2022-02-27T19:31:03 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I'm personally shocked, devastated.
2022-02-27T19:31:08 < jpa-> LikWidChz: ok, "failed enumeration" so it has the pull-up resistor working but not responding to USB communications
2022-02-27T19:31:41 < LikWidChz> I have 3 of these problem children, one of them shows up as STM32F HID Bootloader so that one appears to work
2022-02-27T19:32:06 < LikWidChz> jumping ahead a tad, this one should be in the correct state to flash blink sketch correct?
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2022-02-27T19:32:23 < jpa-> sometimes bluepills have wrong pull-up resistor (should be 1.5 kohm) or otherwise messed up connections or wrong crystal frequency
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2022-02-27T19:32:36 < jpa-> but yeah, go ahead and try the one that appears to work :)
2022-02-27T19:32:40 < LikWidChz> I had heard that in one of the videos
2022-02-27T19:32:59 < jpa-> did the flashing work without error messages?
2022-02-27T19:33:36 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I think the madman is comitting a suicide taking plenty of lives along. And it's not yet clear how many exactly.
2022-02-27T19:33:50 < LikWidChz> well the blink sketch on the arduino ide just says "Flashing Firmware" then no blink sketch uploaded, when I unplug and replug the PC13 led is flashing rapidly just like after flashing the USB Bootloader
2022-02-27T19:34:19 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah - i doubt he'll be let to continue it too much longer though
2022-02-27T19:34:46 < jpa-> LikWidChz: have you selected the correct flashing method and device in the arduino menus?
2022-02-27T19:34:48 < PaulFertser> jpa-: also, feeling lack of any way to anyhow affect the horrible events. Like total lack of strength.
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2022-02-27T19:35:15 < LikWidChz> JPA, yes pretty sure. I have a known working good one next to me nothing has changed
2022-02-27T19:35:42 < PaulFertser> jpa-: and of course even if we live I feel like the country is going to be much more like Iran or probably even North Korea.
2022-02-27T19:36:07 < LikWidChz> like I wonder if there is a way to perhaps flash blink sketch on a known good stm32 THEN use the STLINK to pull ALL the code off including the bootloader, flash on a bin and attack it that way?
2022-02-27T19:36:41 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah, russia is quickly becoming north korea class of joke of "mostly ridiculous, but has nuclear bombs"
2022-02-27T19:36:48 < LikWidChz> Its like windows or something is goofy going on when the stm32 is in the bootloader mode the arduino IDE doesn't want to play nice with it
2022-02-27T19:37:06 < PaulFertser> jpa-: not only the bombs, unfortunately. Plenty of relatively advanced means of delivery those.
2022-02-27T19:37:59 < jpa-> LikWidChz: yeah - hard to say what; usb drivers on windows are often a mess, and bluepills are sometimes of very questionable quality also
2022-02-27T19:38:07 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: please make a pastebin of dfu-util trying to flash the device.
2022-02-27T19:38:29 < Xogium> PaulFertser: don't want to sound rude asking this but… could you leave ?
2022-02-27T19:38:30 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: you can also manually run Zadig to ensure WinUSB driver is used for the bootloader device.
2022-02-27T19:38:31 < LikWidChz> I haven't tried the DFU util thats the other method of attempting to flash the usb bootloader yes?
2022-02-27T19:38:32 < jpa-> PaulFertser: i think they are not using a DFU bootloader but some weird HID one
2022-02-27T19:38:58 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I could but I wasn't motivated enough, and also my parents (and even two grandmothers) are here...
2022-02-27T19:39:23 < PaulFertser> jpa-: oh heh, weird choice of a bootloader then
2022-02-27T19:39:40 < jpa-> i think the whole purpose of HID bootloaders is to avoid the driver mess on windows
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2022-02-27T19:39:55 < jpa-> though nowadays they could just make a proper DFU bootloader and put the winusb stuff in the descriptors
2022-02-27T19:39:59 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: get an stlink clone for like five bucks and stop worrying about bootloaders.
2022-02-27T19:40:10 < LikWidChz> yeah I have one of them
2022-02-27T19:40:16 < Xogium> PaulFertser: nothing you can do I guess ? I so wish I could help you and my other friend
2022-02-27T19:40:18 < PaulFertser> Then you do not need bootloaders
2022-02-27T19:40:22 < jpa-> yeah, and a STM32 discovery is much more reliable platform that a bluepill anyway
2022-02-27T19:40:37 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I feel completely devoid of any force
2022-02-27T19:40:45 < LikWidChz> its just I need usb programming for how this project is in my case also, I love them even though this headache and questionable quality of cheepies.
2022-02-27T19:41:35 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: I use a DFU bootloader on a bluepill, works fine.
2022-02-27T19:41:54 < Xogium> I've not been well for the past week, both from that whole mess and from the fact my father is getting in serious trouble, with a CVA, a lot of his veins and arteries being blocked with thick blood despite all the meds he's been taking to help with that, and a cancer in his throat
2022-02-27T19:42:29 < LikWidChz> paul, so the DFU bootloader vs the HID bootloader are two different items?
2022-02-27T19:42:47 < PaulFertser> Xogium: oh, that sounds really horrible too. Hope the meds get him better eventually.
2022-02-27T19:43:38 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: different protocols. DFU is standard. HID is just a generic word to mean protocols for different input devices (like keyboards and mice) and some companies (ab)use it for flashing because windows has oddities with drivers and it's a bit easier with HID-based protocols.
2022-02-27T19:44:39 < LikWidChz> well I have 3 of these chips that are giving me trouble and would like to figure out if they have been broken a while or I broke them or if they are just throw it in the bin.
2022-02-27T19:45:11 < Xogium> PaulFertser: yeah me too… But I know what you mean by feeling drained of all strength, for sure
2022-02-27T19:45:12 < LikWidChz> in general the only chips that seem to work fine without issue are the clone nanos
2022-02-27T19:45:13 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: I just did https://github.com/paulfertser/stm32-tx-hid and it worked nicely
2022-02-27T19:45:51 < LikWidChz> lol kind of funny I am also working on a generic transmitter
2022-02-27T19:46:12 < Xogium> PaulFertser: just want you to know I'm all with you over this… Maybe not the right words, but…
2022-02-27T19:46:19 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: this particular firmware is meant to turn a transmitter into something different though
2022-02-27T19:46:26 < PaulFertser> Xogium: thank you for the support
2022-02-27T19:46:40 < LikWidChz> 6 rotary encoders, 4 switches, 6 pots, i2c oled screen, mpu6040 yada yada, oh yeah and a handful of ws2812 leds
2022-02-27T19:46:43 < PaulFertser> Xogium: gnom here is from Ukraine, surely he needs much more of it.
2022-02-27T19:47:05 < Xogium> and I know I'm not family or close friend but… if you need to talk about anything really, just pm me
2022-02-27T19:47:28 < Xogium> oh, is he ? I don't think I've seen him talk
2022-02-27T19:49:15 < Xogium> either way I look at this, its not good for either countries, so far as I'm concerned, you both need the support
2022-02-27T19:49:33 < LikWidChz> any end in sight?
2022-02-27T19:50:22 < jpa-> mainly if oligarks in russia decide to displace putin
2022-02-27T19:50:23 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: there're supposed to be some negotiations atm... But with the madman giving orders I do not have much hope. Probably the russian oligarchs can find a way...
2022-02-27T19:51:04 < LikWidChz> well hopefully it ends soon, the last two years in general for like everyone have been a complete shit show.
2022-02-27T19:51:35 < PaulFertser> DEFCON 2 isn't something I could expect...
2022-02-27T19:52:00 < PaulFertser> Damn, wished I could do anything but alas...
2022-02-27T19:55:32 < jpa-> it's funny how all russian military vehicles seem to be running out of fuel - i bet corrupted officers have sold off the reserves and pocketed the money
2022-02-27T19:56:23 < PaulFertser> We're all just tiny sand grains for the galaxy anyway.
2022-02-27T19:56:35 < LikWidChz> Do either of you know a way to use an stlink to pull off ALL code off a working stm32 then flash it back to the device including the booatloader?
2022-02-27T19:56:46 < LikWidChz> trying to cheat here.
2022-02-27T19:56:57 < jpa-> LikWidChz: uh, sure? about every flashing tool has a button or switch for that
2022-02-27T19:57:10 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: yes, using stlink you can "dump_image" and then "program" it back.
2022-02-27T19:57:15 < PaulFertser> (with openocd)
2022-02-27T19:57:28 < LikWidChz> what about with the software the stm32 cube IDE?
2022-02-27T19:57:50 < jpa-> probably, but i haven't used it - what does the manual say?
2022-02-27T19:57:53 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I think it's also a matter of carrying the fuel. Looks like vehicles to transfer it are less armored, so an easier target.
2022-02-27T19:58:58 < LikWidChz> ill do the google thing and figure out how to use the cli tool to do that
2022-02-27T20:03:55 < LikWidChz> why is it that when you read out the chip you start at 0x8xxxxx address and not 0x0 ?
2022-02-27T20:06:05 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: reference manual has a memory map to show that
2022-02-27T20:06:35 < PaulFertser> LikWidChz: stm32 usually maps internal flash to 0x08000000
2022-02-27T20:07:35 < LikWidChz> I see well I was able to upload blink sketch on a working device, read the bin off have a 32k file, now trying to write it back to a bad one and .... throw some darts at the wall here.
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2022-02-27T20:10:09 < LikWidChz> ... this is weird, I can read off fine, but not sure the syntax to write the data look at this https://blog.katastros.com/a?ID=01800-259412d1-e075-427a-b4d9-912db0f0f5c6
2022-02-27T20:11:06 < LikWidChz> *ignore that 
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2022-02-27T20:11:27 < jpa-> write:   -w foo.bin 0x08000000   read: 0x08000000 0x10000
2022-02-27T20:11:33 < jpa-> * -r
2022-02-27T20:12:33 < LikWidChz> well hot damn, that fixed it
2022-02-27T20:16:08 < LikWidChz> Allright as a recap on what I did. I used a known good stm32 with blink sketch on it including the usb bootloader, read that out via command line with the stm32command line tool. Saved off that 32k bin, and flashed that onto bad stm32s not playing nice with windows.
2022-02-27T20:16:25 < LikWidChz> Thank you for the help folks. I kind of love it when its something stupid.
2022-02-27T20:18:42 < LikWidChz> Gahhh so dumb.
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2022-02-27T21:41:19 < Steffanx> what kind of screen calibrator do you have mr jadew?
2022-02-27T21:41:38 < mawk> why are you calibrating screens Steffanx 
2022-02-27T21:41:40 < mawk> you're not a pixar animator
2022-02-27T21:43:45 < Steffanx> maybe im becoming one
2022-02-27T22:00:16 < englishman> glad to hear you are safe and well PaulFertser 
2022-02-27T22:01:53 < PaulFertser> englishman: thank you, and I'm really sorry so many other people are not. Can only hope the madman won't have desire or means to launch nukes.
2022-02-27T22:02:21 < BrainDamage> I want to hope if he tries the rest will refuse
2022-02-27T22:03:28 < PaulFertser> So do I...
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2022-02-27T22:46:25 < mawk> you're not drafted PaulFertser ?
2022-02-27T22:46:35 < mawk> is the russian army a professionnal army
2022-02-27T22:46:39 < mawk> i.e. no drafting
2022-02-27T22:50:59 < PaulFertser> mawk: it's supposed (mandated by law currently) that only people on contract can take part into real military operations
2022-02-27T22:51:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: there were reports that some drafted people were forced into signing a contract though
2022-02-27T22:51:56 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-02-27T22:52:15 < mawk> in france there's no drafting at all, it's been replaced by a single field day where you learn CPR and get propaganda to join the army
2022-02-27T22:52:31 < BrainDamage> back when italy had drafting, it was the same rules
2022-02-27T22:52:54 < BrainDamage> if you sign a contract, you go to war in case of aggression, if you're drafted, only on defence
2022-02-27T22:53:00 < BrainDamage> which has some basic of sense
2022-02-27T22:55:06 < specing> russia is fighting a defensive war from their perspective
2022-02-27T22:55:30 < mawk> the AN-225 is kaput
2022-02-27T22:55:33 < mawk> Laurenceb is sad
2022-02-27T22:56:27 < mawk> a defensive preventive war, it's a special concept
2022-02-27T22:56:45 < mawk> they have some precogs out of minority report in the kremlin basement maybe
2022-02-27T22:57:26 < specing> well, they said that they would not tolerate the expansion of nato towards them
2022-02-27T22:57:43 < specing> and now have a new defensive allience with the separatists
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--- Day changed Mon Feb 28 2022
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2022-02-28T00:18:44 < kakium69> night pump
2022-02-28T00:19:55 < Steffanx> Gooday sir.
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2022-02-28T00:20:57 < Steffanx> Semi-relevant music for kakium69 
2022-02-28T00:20:59 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/sonLd-32ns4
2022-02-28T00:22:12 < kakium69> just don't get direct hit from nuke Steffanx
2022-02-28T00:24:22 < mawk> putin doesn't know where netherlands is on the map don't worry kakium69 
2022-02-28T00:24:26 < mawk> Steffanx and me are safe
2022-02-28T00:24:32 < mawk> do you have a bunker in your basement though Steffanx ?
2022-02-28T00:24:34 < mawk> it's time to invite me
2022-02-28T00:24:43 < kakium69> in grandmas basement
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2022-02-28T00:26:31 < kakium69> basement is good because of the gamma burst
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2022-02-28T00:28:16 < mawk> my basement has toxic mold all over
2022-02-28T00:28:20 < mawk> it's healthier to keep out of it
2022-02-28T00:28:28 < mawk> maybe with a respirator
2022-02-28T00:29:28 < kakium69> inpropper drainage, heating or venting
2022-02-28T00:29:49 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-28T00:29:56 < mawk> it's in the netherlands and below ground level
2022-02-28T00:30:00 < mawk> so probably lots of water
2022-02-28T00:30:02 < mawk> and no ventilation
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2022-02-28T01:23:22 < Steffanx> No basement mr mawk
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2022-02-28T01:24:24 < Steffanx> Just a crawl space, mr mawk
2022-02-28T01:25:30 < Steffanx> And its probably wet and moldy 
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2022-02-28T02:16:29 < tct> sup
2022-02-28T02:16:36 < tct> what am I reading? Steffanx is getting hit directly by a nuke?
2022-02-28T02:16:38 < tct> oh noes
2022-02-28T02:16:42 < tct> steffanx come back to switzerland
2022-02-28T02:16:54 < tct> I will assure you you´ll have a better time than that shit timing last time.
2022-02-28T02:17:19 < Laurenceb> wew RT is 403ing everyone outside russia it seems
2022-02-28T02:18:16 < tct> I´m outside russia and rt works just fine
2022-02-28T02:18:26 < tct> all the propaganda right on my screen
2022-02-28T02:20:12 < tct> I think it´s because you left the EU, Laurenceb 
2022-02-28T02:20:57 < kakium69> RT is being DDOS'd
2022-02-28T02:22:07 < kakium69> Steffanx: you don't need a basement just a trench
2022-02-28T02:28:08 < catphish> rt comes and goes for me
2022-02-28T02:41:57 < kakium69> internets says that putin has been isolating 2years in a bunker
2022-02-28T02:42:32 < kakium69> now I understand the 12meters long table
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2022-02-28T04:36:43 < LikWidChz> Anyone have much experience with rotary encoders? its kickin my keister at the moment.
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2022-02-28T05:49:54 < emeb_mac> LikWidChz: what kind of encoder? optical, mechanical, etc.
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2022-02-28T07:02:31 < ColdKeyboard> Any good example for STM32 working as a I2C slave device with interrupts?
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2022-02-28T09:53:16 < Xogium> er… stupid question probably… but are diodes esd sensitive ?
2022-02-28T09:53:31 < jpa-> slightly, but not as sensitive as FETs
2022-02-28T09:53:40 < Xogium> oh
2022-02-28T09:53:57 < Xogium> this explains probably why mouser shipped in esd bag but didn't bother for the resistors
2022-02-28T09:55:04 < jpa-> i've received ESD protection diodes shipped in ESD bags, which i considered a bit funny :)
2022-02-28T09:55:19 < Xogium> lol yes
2022-02-28T09:56:06 < Xogium> also I have storage boxes that are normally for smd components… basic plastic boxes from adafruit
2022-02-28T09:56:19 < Xogium> but those are most likely not esd safe
2022-02-28T09:57:04 < Xogium> so I wondered, is it a bad idea unpacking esd sensitive stuff in there, knowing that I'd only handle them at my desk, wearing my esd wrist strap and on esd mat ?
2022-02-28T09:57:34 < jpa-> probably fine for diodes and bipolar transistors, but i would avoid it for ICs and FETs
2022-02-28T09:57:39 < Xogium> could they get stray esd just being in those storage boxes, I mean
2022-02-28T09:58:20 < jpa-> the risky moment is when you pick up the component from the box - it may be charged because the box does not dissipate, and then it will discharge too quickly through you or tweezers
2022-02-28T09:58:56 < Xogium> oh
2022-02-28T09:59:01 < jpa-> i guess dumping the parts onto ESD mat should be pretty safe
2022-02-28T09:59:03 < Xogium> even with the wrist strap ?
2022-02-28T09:59:27 < jpa-> yeah, because the wrist wrap just keeps you discharged, it doesn't stop the the part in a plastic box being charged itself
2022-02-28T09:59:41 < Xogium> hmm
2022-02-28T09:59:50 < jpa-> and your fingers conduct too well - ESD mat has enough resistance that it shouldn't shock the parts
2022-02-28T09:59:54 < Xogium> oh, right. So they could charge themselves moving around in the box ?
2022-02-28T09:59:58 < jpa-> yeah
2022-02-28T10:00:24 < Xogium> makes sense
2022-02-28T10:00:52 < Xogium> yeah… my boxes are too small to store the chips I got in a bag inside said box
2022-02-28T10:01:32 < Xogium> been using google len to label my things, god its slow
2022-02-28T10:03:11 < Xogium> those boxes are perfect to store resistors though
2022-02-28T10:03:18 < Xogium> I mean, the through-hole kind, it also works
2022-02-28T10:05:34 < Xogium> do you guys use IPA to remove the remains of tape on your components ? Or other things ?
2022-02-28T10:08:06 < jpa-> for through-hole, i just cut the leads shorter
2022-02-28T10:09:43 < Xogium> ah yes they have long leads
2022-02-28T10:09:52 < Xogium> but how do you know how much to cut or not
2022-02-28T10:11:19 < jpa-> if they are in a tape, cut next to the tape
2022-02-28T10:12:26 < Xogium> yeah they are but erk… I can't manage to cut straight
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2022-02-28T10:44:31 < mawk> Xogium: I use IPA if it works, but it doesn't work on all adhesive
2022-02-28T10:44:36 < mawk> otherwise I use naphtha
2022-02-28T10:44:54 < mawk> there are naphtha fractions specially made for removing adhesive, it's called "Essence F" in France you can buy it easily
2022-02-28T10:45:29 < mawk> don't spill it out and lit fire to it, then your local environment might get a bit hot
2022-02-28T10:46:14 < Xogium> lol noted
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2022-02-28T11:25:24 < Steffanx> You do that with IPA, mawk?
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2022-02-28T11:40:13 < zyp> hrm
2022-02-28T11:40:21 < zyp> https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/x-cube-mcsdk.html fucking blob of windows bullshit
2022-02-28T11:44:35 < mawk> yes Steffanx why
2022-02-28T11:45:24 < mawk> isn't it java zyp ?
2022-02-28T11:46:04 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-02-28T11:47:31 < zyp> bunch of .exe and .dll files
2022-02-28T11:48:22 < mawk> maybe it works out of the box in wine
2022-02-28T11:48:39 < zyp> libgcc and a bunch of qt dlls, so it probably wouldn't have been that fucking hard to make portable
2022-02-28T11:48:40 < mawk> wine can passthrough serial port
2022-02-28T11:48:44 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-28T11:52:29 < zyp> nah, fuck this shit
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2022-02-28T11:54:56 < jpa-> IIRC i didn't like the code either when i reviewed it for a project once
2022-02-28T11:55:04 < jpa-> ended up wasting a lot more time by writing custom one
2022-02-28T11:56:28 < zyp> I just need to get the evalboard running
2022-02-28T11:56:50 < mawk> time to install windoz
2022-02-28T11:57:13 < zyp> this is workshit so I don't have time to dick around writing my own motor control code, otherwise I would :p
2022-02-28T11:57:37 < zyp> and yeah, windows in virtualbox or something is probably the easiest solution
2022-02-28T11:57:42 < mawk> in qemu
2022-02-28T11:57:46 < mawk> who uses virtualbox in 2022
2022-02-28T11:57:57 < zyp> idk, I've never ran a windows vm on linux
2022-02-28T11:58:09 < jpa-> i use virtualbox for everything
2022-02-28T11:58:13 < mawk> your mind sayed pure this all time
2022-02-28T11:58:15 < jpa-> i just love oracle so much
2022-02-28T11:58:18 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T11:58:22 < mawk> I use virt-manager it's a frontend for qemu/kvm
2022-02-28T11:58:33 < mawk> it has the most configurability of all things I've found
2022-02-28T11:58:52 < mawk> if you need a quick peek into the filesystem you can do it into a few commandlines to mount the windows fs on your linux system
2022-02-28T11:59:01 < mawk> but it's a GUI don't worry
2022-02-28T11:59:04 < zyp> I normally use vmware to run windows on macos, I just want something that works with as little bullshit as that
2022-02-28T11:59:22 < mawk> if you click the right buttons in the right order virt-manager should work
2022-02-28T11:59:39 < zyp> that sounds like bullshit
2022-02-28T11:59:44 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T11:59:46 < mawk> no
2022-02-28T11:59:51 < mawk> there is a new VM install wizard
2022-02-28T12:00:02 < mawk> you give the HDD size, how much RAM, you give the .iso of windows, and that's it
2022-02-28T12:00:11 < mawk> by default it uses NAT for network so you don't have to configure it
2022-02-28T12:01:09 < mawk> it can also manage LXC containers
2022-02-28T12:01:15 < mawk> and connect to remove SPICE vms
2022-02-28T12:01:25 < ventyl> i don't like virt-manager, i use bare qemu instead
2022-02-28T12:01:31 < jpa-> hmh, i fail at C++ templates again; i have     template <typename T1, typename T2 = T1> class BaseClass { virtual T1 convert(T2 &x) { return x; } }   and I want that default implementation only when T1 = T2 (because it won't compile if they are not)
2022-02-28T12:01:37 < mawk> yes but that will break the bullshit-o-meter ventyl 
2022-02-28T12:01:40 < mawk> using qemu directly
2022-02-28T12:02:06 < mawk> use SFINAE stuff then jpa- ?
2022-02-28T12:02:17 < jpa-> mawk: maybe - but how
2022-02-28T12:02:24 < mawk> template <typename T1, typename T2, typename = std::enable_if<...>>
2022-02-28T12:02:33 < jpa-> i can barely understand SFINAE but i'm failing to apply it here
2022-02-28T12:03:07 < mawk> if the content of std::enable_if_t<> is a boolean that eval to false then your whole template won't be considered and you don't have compile errors
2022-02-28T12:03:11 < mawk> at least it's what I would try
2022-02-28T12:03:29 < zyp> s
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2022-02-28T12:05:24 < jpa-> i think this is related  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6972368/stdenable-if-to-conditionally-compile-a-member-function
2022-02-28T12:06:20 < mawk> yeah they say to put it in the template directly like I said
2022-02-28T12:06:25 < mawk> so I suppose that's the best way then
2022-02-28T12:08:15 < mawk> template <typename T1, typename T2, typename std::enable_if_t<std::is_same_type_v<T1, T2>> = 0
2022-02-28T12:08:23 < mawk> you might not have the _t and _v variants if you have an old C++ standard
2022-02-28T12:11:39 < jpa-> but if i put that template<T1,T2> thing on the function, it won't match the template of the class; and if i put enable_if on whole class, won't that mean i have to repeat the whole class for the alternatives?
2022-02-28T12:11:54 < mawk> it goes on the whole class yes
2022-02-28T12:12:06 < mawk> if you want to put it on the function I'm not sure
2022-02-28T12:12:18 < mawk> default arguments aren't part of the template of the class signature, so you can still use it on member functions I think
2022-02-28T12:12:48 < jpa-> i only have this single method i want to specialize; i know i could separate that to a different class that i inherit but then the default implementation can't access stuff defined in the main class etc.
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2022-02-28T12:22:20 < zyp> okay, virt-manager actually seems fairly decent
2022-02-28T12:22:49 < mawk> you have the windows iso already?
2022-02-28T12:23:05 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-28T12:23:06 < mawk> you can activate it with a $5 license
2022-02-28T12:23:14 < mawk> or not activate it
2022-02-28T12:23:28 < zyp> not gonna worry about activation now
2022-02-28T12:24:09 < zyp> when I have time for that, I'll try to get it to activate with the actual license that came with this computer :p
2022-02-28T12:24:16 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-02-28T12:24:21 < mawk> unless it's a EOM license
2022-02-28T12:24:22 < mawk> OEM
2022-02-28T12:24:28 < zyp> probably is
2022-02-28T12:24:40 < zyp> IIRC it's stored in the hardware
2022-02-28T12:24:53 < zyp> IIRC there should be some tricks to map the hardware key into a VM
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2022-02-28T12:25:14 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-02-28T12:25:28 < mawk> spoof the HWID of the vm then
2022-02-28T12:25:48 < zyp> but I don't have time to dick around with that now
2022-02-28T12:25:59 < jpa-> https://superuser.com/a/1545015/117985  this worked with virtualbox for me
2022-02-28T12:26:38 < zyp> nice
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2022-02-28T12:32:20 < Steffanx> You are really everywhere jpa-  ..
2022-02-28T12:32:43 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T12:32:45 < zyp> okay, I think that's the quickest windows install I've ever done
2022-02-28T12:32:51 < Steffanx> Googling something about disk encryption and find some jpa guy on stackexchange..I 
2022-02-28T12:33:02 < zyp> ten minutes from booting the iso to ready desktop is pretty decent
2022-02-28T12:33:17 < mawk> you have a quick computor
2022-02-28T12:33:36 < zyp> well, yeah, it's my work computer
2022-02-28T12:48:47 < karlp> zyp: my go to is the ms ie edge vm images https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
2022-02-28T12:49:03 < karlp> (I actually convert them to run with virt-manager, but it's pretty painless to just use virtualbox.
2022-02-28T12:49:22 < karlp> (up to you and your work if you want to ignore the personal use part of virtual box to actually have usb and shit working though....)
2022-02-28T12:50:28 < mawk> my work saw me use my personal jetbrains license they weren't happy
2022-02-28T12:50:34 < mawk> they preferred to pay to give me a new one
2022-02-28T12:50:59 < mawk> it's a single educational license I'm milking for 7 years since I still have my uni email address
2022-02-28T12:51:06 < karlp> looks like you're all sorted out  now anyway, nvm.
2022-02-28T12:56:20 < Steffanx> What jetbrains tools you use mawk
2022-02-28T12:56:37 < mawk> the edu license is for all of them Steffanx 
2022-02-28T12:56:49 < mawk> but I use webstorm, pycharm, phpstorm, datagrip
2022-02-28T12:56:51 < Steffanx> That doesn't answer my question 
2022-02-28T12:56:56 < mawk> yes it does
2022-02-28T12:56:57 < Steffanx> That does
2022-02-28T12:57:01 < mawk> you just need dutch patience
2022-02-28T12:57:03 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T12:57:22 < mawk> also clion
2022-02-28T12:57:24 < mawk> but not recently
2022-02-28T12:57:29 < Steffanx> In my php time I liked phpstorm 
2022-02-28T12:57:48 < mawk> I need to have plugins to make it work correctly with laravel
2022-02-28T12:59:35 < Steffanx> Hm
2022-02-28T13:00:08 < mawk> webstorm is for nodejs crap
2022-02-28T13:00:14 < mawk> at least as I use it
2022-02-28T13:06:19 < zyp> mawk, so, can I get usb or serial devices into my virt-manager VM?
2022-02-28T13:07:50 < mawk> yeah you do usb passthrough
2022-02-28T13:08:01 < mawk> if you have an external usb to tty converter that's the easiest
2022-02-28T13:08:22 < zyp> I can passthrough the entire stlink on the evalboard
2022-02-28T13:09:27 < zyp> but how? :)
2022-02-28T13:09:54 < zyp> hmm, I think I found the right button
2022-02-28T13:10:30 < mawk> it's on the menu bar if I remember correctly
2022-02-28T13:10:37 < mawk> the thing on the top file "file" "edit" ... usually
2022-02-28T13:11:08 < zyp> yeah
2022-02-28T13:13:38 < zyp> looks like I might be able to just generate a whole motor control firmware with a predefined serial protocol
2022-02-28T13:13:53 < zyp> that would be great, would mean I won't have to touch the cube code at all
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2022-02-28T14:12:32 < jadew> https://twitter.com/BlackdiasporaV1/status/1498071219597299715
2022-02-28T14:14:44 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T14:15:36 < jadew> not sure how much that's about racism and how much it's about prioritizing children and women
2022-02-28T14:16:23 < jadew> Ukranian men cannot leave, so it kinda makes sense that other nationality men are stuck behind
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2022-02-28T14:31:31 < Steffanx> So what screen calibration tool/hw you use jadew?
2022-02-28T14:31:43 < zyp> hmm, one of the utilities is just exiting without an error message or anything
2022-02-28T14:32:15 < zyp> suspect it's because it's trying to initialize some 3d graphics that's not supported by the virtualized gpu
2022-02-28T14:32:42 < Steffanx> Time to start virtualbox
2022-02-28T14:32:56 < zyp> hmm, maybe not
2022-02-28T14:33:04 < mawk> you can change which vgpu you use if you want
2022-02-28T14:33:12 < zyp> apparently webgl works, so it can't be all that terrible
2022-02-28T14:33:20 < mawk> you install the virtio drivers and then use virtio gpu
2022-02-28T14:33:49 < mawk> this: https://fedorapeople.org/groups/virt/virtio-win/direct-downloads/archive-virtio/virtio-win-0.1.215-2/virtio-win.iso
2022-02-28T14:33:56 < mawk> download it into the vm, mount it, and install relevant drivers
2022-02-28T14:34:00 < mawk> then you can change the vm gpu to be virtio
2022-02-28T14:34:05 < mawk> but I don't know if it will improve or not
2022-02-28T14:34:16 < mawk> it's just what I do to have maximum perf, short of doing gpu passthru
2022-02-28T14:34:32 < mawk> you can also change the virtualized GPU to another one than virtio, without having to install these drivers
2022-02-28T14:37:36 < zyp> ah, it's using qxl by default
2022-02-28T14:39:17 < zyp> okay, let's give virtio a try
2022-02-28T14:39:42 < mawk> you need the drivers first tho zyp I think
2022-02-28T14:39:51 < mawk> although it can work without drivers at low res probably
2022-02-28T14:39:52 < zyp> currently downloading
2022-02-28T14:39:54 < mawk> and then install them
2022-02-28T14:39:57 < mawk> ah good
2022-02-28T14:40:13 < mawk> there also are drivers for disk and network
2022-02-28T14:40:16 < mawk> to have maximum speed for both
2022-02-28T14:40:25 < mawk> it's all in the .iso
2022-02-28T14:40:35 < zyp> not having an issue with those at the moment
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2022-02-28T14:48:39 < zyp> hmm, didn't help
2022-02-28T14:48:46 < mawk> maybe it's not gpu related
2022-02-28T14:48:51 < mawk> you had a error message?
2022-02-28T14:49:07 < zyp> no, shit just exits before spawning any windows
2022-02-28T14:50:10 < mawk> if you run it from terminal you may have error message to look at
2022-02-28T14:50:20 < zyp> tried that, got nothing
2022-02-28T14:50:22 < mawk> :(
2022-02-28T14:50:40 < mawk> maybe the errors would show up in the windows event log, but I don't know enough windows to be sure
2022-02-28T14:52:33 < zyp> I could fire it up under IDA or something, but I'm not sure I want to spend more time on that vs just figuring out the protocol and talking to the board directly
2022-02-28T14:55:30 < mawk> yeah
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2022-02-28T16:15:05 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMnIzDSXwAESfKd.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-02-28T16:37:31 < jadew> Steffanx, Spyder-X Pro
2022-02-28T16:37:54 < jadew> or Elite, not sure... whichever is the best
2022-02-28T16:38:29 < Steffanx> Elite I guess
2022-02-28T16:38:43 < Steffanx> Big munny 💰 jadew
2022-02-28T16:39:00 < jadew> maybe I don't have the Elite one, was just reading on it and I don't know if I would have selected that one
2022-02-28T16:39:08 < jadew> let me check mine
2022-02-28T16:40:37 < jadew> it's the Elite one
2022-02-28T16:40:52 < jadew> planning on getting one?
2022-02-28T16:41:13 < jadew> I would look for some comparisons between this and other products too
2022-02-28T16:41:24 < jadew> I'm not extremely happy with it
2022-02-28T16:42:16 < jadew> I managed to get the monitors to a usable point, pictures do look similar between them, but I still had to manually adjust the white point a little so they would match a little better
2022-02-28T16:42:50 < jadew> maybe if you have the same type of backlighting, it works better
2022-02-28T16:45:53 < Steffanx> I have 2 equal displays.
2022-02-28T16:47:27 < jadew> and they don't look the same by default?
2022-02-28T16:47:55 < Steffanx> Maybe I watch such tool for other reasons 😉
2022-02-28T16:49:02 < jadew> I don't think it's the best if that's what you want to know
2022-02-28T16:49:08 < jadew> there must be something better
2022-02-28T16:54:58 < Steffanx> I read the software is so-so and works even better with some open sores tool
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2022-02-28T16:55:16 < jadew> I tried the opensores tool, it's not better with it
2022-02-28T16:55:17 < Steffanx> Better for the price.
2022-02-28T16:55:27 < Steffanx> ?
2022-02-28T16:55:38 < jadew> takes longer to calibrate and the result is worse
2022-02-28T16:55:40 < Steffanx> I'll ask Google 
2022-02-28T17:04:08 < jadew> let me know what you get
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2022-02-28T18:30:30 < tct> Steffanx still safe? <3
2022-02-28T18:48:25 < Steffanx> Yes, I'm alright. No nukes yet
2022-02-28T18:48:39 < Steffanx> Lol that almost autocorrected to nudes. 
2022-02-28T18:53:27 < qyx> are you sure
2022-02-28T18:53:50 < tct> something tells me that Steffanx could handle nukes better than nudes
2022-02-28T18:59:32 < Steffanx> Send nudes, tct
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2022-02-28T19:03:07 < bitmask> o/
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2022-02-28T19:15:10 < Steffanx> You're just in time for the nudes bitmask  
2022-02-28T19:15:18 < bitmask> umm?
2022-02-28T19:15:29 < Laurenceb> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/daca_images/simgad/14029799801513015331
2022-02-28T19:16:01 < bitmask> oh
2022-02-28T19:16:50 < bitmask> why wouldnt you be safe? where are you
2022-02-28T19:19:44 < PaulFertser> With the madman near the button can you feel safe anywhere?
2022-02-28T19:21:13 < bitmask> meh, i dont think hes gonna push the button, i aint worried
2022-02-28T19:21:18 < bitmask> (famous last words)
2022-02-28T19:21:56 < Steffanx> I just assume he's not THAT crazy
2022-02-28T19:21:57 < PaulFertser> bitmask: did anyone think he could have started full-scale invasion for real?..
2022-02-28T19:22:31 < bitmask> theres still a huge step between that and nukes
2022-02-28T19:22:42 < Steffanx> Yes, why not? If the US can do it, why not Russia?
2022-02-28T19:22:55 < Steffanx> And its not entirely the first time
2022-02-28T19:23:02 < Steffanx> In the last 20 years
2022-02-28T19:23:04 < PaulFertser> we, as victims of aggression, as martyrs, will go to heaven.
2022-02-28T19:23:05 < PaulFertser> "They will simply die
2022-02-28T19:23:09 < PaulFertser> https://news.yahoo.com/russians-heaven-event-nuclear-war-putin-153648833.html
2022-02-28T19:26:16 < octorian> So I'm trying to figure out the best strategy for ADC sampling the internal temperature sensor my STM32L0 to get a "stable enough" reading that I can follow in relation to other stuff.
2022-02-28T19:26:28 < octorian> A few strategies come to mind, and I'm not sure which is best.
2022-02-28T19:26:36 < Steffanx> I'll still put that in the context of the article about being attacked with nuclear weapons, paul
2022-02-28T19:26:43 < octorian> 1) Periodically sample in some sort of loop, then average.
2022-02-28T19:26:43 < Steffanx> PaulFertser *
2022-02-28T19:27:12 < octorian> 2) Use DMA to quickly take a large'ish batch of readings, then average them when the buffer is full, and use that.
2022-02-28T19:27:18 < octorian> 3) Some combination of the two approaches.
2022-02-28T19:28:14 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMrw_VDXEAAcV5X.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig
2022-02-28T19:30:05 < tct> stop shitposting man
2022-02-28T19:30:08 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you know I'm not sure about anything anymore :( and I have a feeling often times what putins says is what he really thinks inverted.
2022-02-28T19:30:37 < bitmask> octorian I'm no pro but I think a simple window filter or whatever its called would be good. id wait for a better response though
2022-02-28T19:31:06 < bitmask> seriously, Laurenceb havent you learned your lesson? stfu
2022-02-28T19:32:21 < tct> that ^
2022-02-28T19:33:30 < tct> PaulFertser, I don´t care what putin says or does (I mean overall, I of course care a lot on what´s actually happening) I see you as one of us. engineering doesn´t know borders nor national politics.
2022-02-28T19:35:29 < octorian> bitmask, looks like the oversampling feature of the ADC peripheral may be a good starting point to read up on for a way to do this.
2022-02-28T19:36:06 < bitmask> yea i was gonna ask if there was an option for oversampling, then you dont need to dma a bunch of values and average yourself
2022-02-28T19:36:56 < ventyl> Steffanx: well, if that published and later unpublished article about Russia uniting with Ukraine after conquer, which was planned to be done by friday evening is legit, then Putin is now in bad situation as his plan failed
2022-02-28T19:37:14 < bitmask> so i would just set oversampling to max and do a small window filter, i dont know how often you are reading the value but save like 5-9 readings and just sort and use the middle value
2022-02-28T19:37:22 < ventyl> and if he steps back from what he is asking for now, he will be seen as weak from outside and inside
2022-02-28T19:37:33 < ventyl> thus, Putin has to bark loud and louder
2022-02-28T19:39:15 < jpa-> clown vs. comedian
2022-02-28T19:39:24 < tct> :D
2022-02-28T19:40:12 < tct> meanwhile very heated discussions in .ch regarding ´neutrality´
2022-02-28T19:40:30 < bitmask> hey! he played a president on tv, what more could you want?
2022-02-28T19:40:33 < jpa-> are you voting about it yet?
2022-02-28T19:40:47 < jpa-> bitmask: i would want him to play piano on stage with his dick
2022-02-28T19:40:59 < bitmask> i dont get the reference
2022-02-28T19:41:05 < bitmask> if there is one
2022-02-28T19:41:10 < jpa-> https://twitter.com/AmySpiro/status/1498085663786344452
2022-02-28T19:41:20 < Steffanx> Didn't you already say yes to the sanctions, tct?
2022-02-28T19:41:39 < Steffanx> And you were never entirely neutral. I still want my gold back 😆
2022-02-28T19:41:46 < bitmask> hah wtf
2022-02-28T19:42:34 < Steffanx> They still have a lot of the Jewish gold that was confiscated in WWII
2022-02-28T19:42:42 < tct> Steffanx, it´s a bit of a political shit show here at the moment. 
2022-02-28T19:43:07 < bitmask> why is red phosphor so expensive
2022-02-28T19:44:03 < Steffanx> $60 for 100 gr. ?
2022-02-28T19:44:26 < bitmask> $60 for 5-10g
2022-02-28T19:45:50 < Steffanx> https://www.chemdirect.com/p/ChemD-27-141055-100G-7723-14-0/phosphorus-powder-red-100-mesh-amorphous-99-trace-metals-basis-100g-11901 ? 
2022-02-28T19:46:00 < Steffanx> Or is this something else
2022-02-28T19:46:09 < Steffanx> Are you going to make meth?
2022-02-28T19:46:26 < bitmask> thats red phosphorous
2022-02-28T19:46:33 < bitmask> i want a red phosphor
2022-02-28T19:46:44 < Steffanx> Lol my English isn't good enough to know the difference:P
2022-02-28T19:46:44 < tct> Steffanx chemical knowledge debunked
2022-02-28T19:47:01 < bitmask> ie: hit it with 450nm royal blue light and it emits red light
2022-02-28T19:47:48 < bitmask> UV excited red phosphor is probably cheap but i want the 450nm one
2022-02-28T19:49:23 < Laurenceb> lolll
2022-02-28T19:49:29 < Laurenceb> diy war crimes
2022-02-28T19:49:35 < Steffanx> Oh I know my confusion, phosphorous is called "fosfor" in dutch.
2022-02-28T19:49:49 < bitmask> :)
2022-02-28T19:49:49 < Steffanx> Which is the chemical element.
2022-02-28T19:49:50 < Laurenceb> inb4 someone making zyklon-b
2022-02-28T19:50:06 < Laurenceb> phosgene is quite easy to make
2022-02-28T19:50:28 < Steffanx> I would never have guessed phosphor != fosfor.
2022-02-28T19:51:29 < bitmask> yea i dont know what the connection is, it is confusing, is phosphorous phosphorescent?
2022-02-28T19:52:00 < jpa-> most languages call it "stuff that lights up" or similar, english is just silly
2022-02-28T19:52:01 < Steffanx> Tct did you know? 😋
2022-02-28T19:52:23 < mawk> phosphore
2022-02-28T19:52:27 < mawk> in french
2022-02-28T19:52:35 < mawk> which gave the dutch fosfor which looks like a child wrote it
2022-02-28T19:52:41 < tct> mawk, are you ready to surrender already?
2022-02-28T19:52:49 < mawk> no
2022-02-28T19:52:53 < tct> most thing in dutch looks like a child wrote it.
2022-02-28T19:53:08 < mawk> it's even worse in turk
2022-02-28T19:53:16 < jpa-> apparently french phosphore means *both* phosphorus and phosphor
2022-02-28T19:53:22 < mawk> what's the difference
2022-02-28T19:53:26 < mawk> phosphore is the element
2022-02-28T19:53:29 < mawk> and its various forms
2022-02-28T19:53:32 < Steffanx> Let's  not talk about this gibberish language you talk, tct :P
2022-02-28T19:53:40 < jpa-> one is chemical element, other one is any stuff that lights up when excited with light of a shorter wavelength
2022-02-28T19:53:41 < mawk> phosphore is elemental P
2022-02-28T19:53:43 < mawk> ah
2022-02-28T19:53:45 < tct> Steffanx I have no idea what you´re talking about :p
2022-02-28T19:53:47 < mawk> then the second is phosphorescent
2022-02-28T19:53:57 < jpa-> that's an adjective
2022-02-28T19:53:59 < mawk> or fluorescent, or scintillant, depending on the method of excitation and the duration 
2022-02-28T19:54:10 < mawk> yeah, which describes stuff that lights up
2022-02-28T19:54:17 < mawk> you can say "matière phosphorescente" as a noun
2022-02-28T19:54:18 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor   is the noun in english
2022-02-28T19:54:21 < tct> tell me more about the methods of excitation, mawk
2022-02-28T19:54:25 < mawk> just "phosphore" is only the element P
2022-02-28T19:54:39 < mawk> only english is crazy and has the same word for both
2022-02-28T19:54:42 < bitmask> apparently phosphorus isnt phosphorescent its chemiluminiscent
2022-02-28T19:54:48 < jpa-> google translate says also   "le luminophore"
2022-02-28T19:55:02 < mawk> maybe yeah
2022-02-28T19:55:06 < mawk> but that's a word I never heard
2022-02-28T19:55:09 < mawk> probably ancient
2022-02-28T19:55:11 < jpa-> which i assume is again "stuff that lights up"
2022-02-28T19:55:19 < Steffanx> Loisteaine. Perfect.
2022-02-28T19:55:19 < mawk> yeah
2022-02-28T19:55:35 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/real_lord_miles/status/1498290414780133380?cxt=HHwWiMC99bTM_8opAAAA
2022-02-28T19:55:37 < Laurenceb> kjeeekkkk
2022-02-28T19:55:47 < bitmask> I ordered some cheap yellow Cerium YAG phosphor, $15 for 10g
2022-02-28T19:55:52 < Laurenceb> >soy and seed oil consumption is near 0, global elites seething
2022-02-28T19:55:55 < Laurenceb> orbital sides
2022-02-28T19:56:09 < bitmask> its probably gonna end up being a very cold white
2022-02-28T19:56:27 < bitmask> so I wanted some red to warm it up but its not worth the price for playing around
2022-02-28T19:57:43 < Steffanx> What are you going to do with?
2022-02-28T19:58:26 < bitmask> i was curious what it would look like if i mixed it with epoxy or maybe even silicone and molded some stuff and lit from below or inside
2022-02-28T20:00:00 < bitmask> it would be really neat to have a bunch of colors and make different parts different colors then you just gotta light up with one led and get multiple colors of light 
2022-02-28T20:01:24 < Steffanx> Hm
2022-02-28T20:01:47 < Laurenceb> maybe Putin will pay haxors to code a proper integrated command system for him
2022-02-28T20:01:52 < bitmask> im not sure how much of the blue would get through the red phosphor though, if it just makes a purplish color thats boring
2022-02-28T20:02:10 < Laurenceb> also needs to try disctributed mimo based peer to peer noise radar
2022-02-28T20:02:16 < Laurenceb> I cant spell
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2022-02-28T20:38:23 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMs6TSTX0AghiCl.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-02-28T20:41:17 < mawk> lol
2022-02-28T20:41:22 < mawk> I saw it on /r/russia
2022-02-28T20:41:31 < mawk> there 100% of posts are drinking the moscow propaganda like holy words
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2022-02-28T22:57:55 < PaulFertser> Namecheap tells me they'll stop delegating my domain on 7th March.
2022-02-28T22:59:34 < qyx> restrictions?
2022-02-28T22:59:52 < PaulFertser> Yes, their new policy decisions.
2022-02-28T23:01:12 < catphish> what is this steel nonsense, why does angle iron comes in 3mm or 5mm thickess, but if you want unequal angles, it only comes in 4mm :|
2022-02-28T23:03:51 < karlp> PaulFertser: can we help with that at all? 
2022-02-28T23:04:27 < karlp> does wireguard et al still work for you? do you have or need endpoints?
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 01 00:00:29 2022