--- Log opened Tue Mar 01 00:00:29 2022
--- Day changed Tue Mar 01 2022
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2022-03-01T00:19:25 < machinehum> Anyone tried the RP2040?
2022-03-01T00:19:33 < machinehum> 25k of them on digikey
2022-03-01T00:21:30 < Steffanx> catphish: ^
2022-03-01T00:22:12 < catphish> i use them :)
2022-03-01T00:24:10 < machinehum> And?
2022-03-01T00:24:13 < machinehum> The no flash sucks
2022-03-01T00:24:24 < catphish> i'd never recommend that anyone else use them, i want them to stay in stock
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2022-03-01T00:24:48 < Steffanx> Let's but all 25k without using them;)
2022-03-01T00:25:18 < machinehum> catphish: How do you modify the contents of flash?
2022-03-01T00:25:32 < catphish> i love them because 1) there's a single variant, in good supply, so there's no worrying about which parts are compatible, or finding stock
2022-03-01T00:25:37 < machinehum> Also does it load the flash into RAM on boot and run from there?
2022-03-01T00:25:37 < catphish> 2) they're cheap
2022-03-01T00:25:48 < machinehum> YEah
2022-03-01T00:25:59 < machinehum> I like single varient shit, I think it's the future
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2022-03-01T00:26:21 < machinehum> God only knows why companies build thousands of different VERY SIMILAR parts
2022-03-01T00:26:33 < catphish> 3) the PIO is *awesome* you can bitbang at clock speed, if that's something you need
2022-03-01T00:27:01 < catphish> 4) the SDK is really simple and doesn't require some godawful IDE
2022-03-01T00:27:36 < catphish> obvious disadvantage: fairly small, barely any peripherals
2022-03-01T00:27:55 < catphish> obvious disadvantage: external flash
2022-03-01T00:28:32 < qyx> not that obvious at all
2022-03-01T00:28:45 < qyx> the latter one
2022-03-01T00:29:15 < catphish> there's a ROM bootloader with USB support, afaik you just connect the flash, power on with the boot pin high, then push a program by USB
2022-03-01T00:30:18 < catphish> qyx: not obvious it's missing, or not obviously a disadvantage?
2022-03-01T00:32:19 < catphish> yeah, the USB bootloader is in ROM, so you write the flash by booting in "ROM bootloader" mode, activated by a pin, then just upload by USB, i don't know if it supports non-usb options like uart or not, but if you have USB, it's really easy
2022-03-01T00:35:25 < catphish> machinehum: i don't know if it loads flash into RAM, i would assume not, but not certain
2022-03-01T00:37:40 < catphish> "External Flash is accessed via the QSPI interface using the execute-in-place (XIP) hardware. This allows an external flash memory to be addressed and accessed by the system as though it were internal memory."
2022-03-01T00:38:11 < catphish> so i assume, the answer is no, at least normally, code runs from the external flash
2022-03-01T00:39:19 < catphish> there's a bit in the datasheet about XIP and caching that i don't fully understand :)
2022-03-01T01:09:46 < zyp> machinehum, I haven't used them, but my impression is that they're a cute toy
2022-03-01T01:10:25 < zyp> one could argue that the reason they have good availability is that nobody wants them for anything serious :p
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2022-03-01T01:22:17 < karlp> lol
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2022-03-01T02:16:02 < HelloShitty> Hello peeps
2022-03-01T02:16:26 < HelloShitty> I dodn't understand something from the refman of my stm32l412 chip
2022-03-01T02:16:42 < HelloShitty> it's about the left and right alignment of data in ADC_DR register
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2022-03-01T02:17:47 < HelloShitty> I understand that when left alignment is selected
2022-03-01T02:18:00 < HelloShitty> we have, for instance, for the 6 bit resolution
2022-03-01T02:18:55 < HelloShitty> 9 MSB for sign representation in case we have offset enabled
2022-03-01T02:19:03 < HelloShitty> plus 6 bit for the data
2022-03-01T02:19:14 < HelloShitty> and then we have a 0 at the LSB
2022-03-01T02:19:24 < HelloShitty> What is this 0 for? Why is it there?
2022-03-01T02:20:43 < HelloShitty> And also, why do we have 9 bit for signed data representation for 6 bit resolution and only 1 bit for signed data representation in case of 8 bit resolution and the 7 LSB filled with zeroes?
2022-03-01T02:21:12 < HelloShitty> I'm on this doc:
2022-03-01T02:21:14 < HelloShitty> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/rm0394-stm32l41xxx42xxx43xxx44xxx45xxx46xxx-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2022-03-01T02:21:23 < HelloShitty> page 413
2022-03-01T02:24:22 < machinehum> catphish: Thanks
2022-03-01T02:25:56 < machinehum> So it fetched instructions from flash at clock speed
2022-03-01T02:26:04 < machinehum> I wonder if there is a prefetch buffer
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2022-03-01T02:26:42 < machinehum> afaik highspeed stm's need a prefetch buffer to run at native clockspeed because they can't read from their internal flash at native clock speeds
2022-03-01T02:27:05 < machinehum> Which is why if you inline everything and avoid jsr your shit will be way faster
2022-03-01T02:27:14 < catphish> machinehum: there's definitely a cache, i assume it fetches large blocks
2022-03-01T02:27:28 < machinehum> inline everything within reason
2022-03-01T02:27:33 < machinehum> Hmm
2022-03-01T02:27:55 < machinehum> cache is something different
2022-03-01T02:28:22 < machinehum> Well I guess it's a more generic word
2022-03-01T02:28:58 < machinehum> I just bought a little board from Jeff lets see how this goes
2022-03-01T02:29:18 < catphish> see https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp2040/rp2040-datasheet.pdf page 150
2022-03-01T02:29:41 < catphish> if you read and understand that, you know more than i do
2022-03-01T02:30:08 < catphish> but it's reasonable to assume it reads the flash in blocks, and inlining will improve performance
2022-03-01T02:33:11 < machinehum> Yeah
2022-03-01T02:33:16 < machinehum> It's doing a prefetch
2022-03-01T02:33:32 < machinehum> idk that's cool, what a flash chip? like 50 cents?
2022-03-01T02:33:36 < HelloShitty> You guys can't explain me about the alignment thing? :)
2022-03-01T02:33:43 < machinehum> You can upgrade it if required
2022-03-01T02:35:00 < catphish> machinehum: so far i've only use the pi pico, haven't made my own board
2022-03-01T02:35:35 < machinehum> I wonder if it's a bitch to route the qspi
2022-03-01T02:35:38 < machinehum> Probably not
2022-03-01T02:35:51 < machinehum> Just normal SD card routing type thing
2022-03-01T02:35:54 < machinehum> HelloShitty: No clue
2022-03-01T02:36:18 < catphish> i was going to, but by the time i'd taken care of the MCU, flash, cryatal, and USB, it didn't seem worth the hassle, the dev board is nicely casteld
2022-03-01T02:36:35 < machinehum> hmm
2022-03-01T02:36:49 < machinehum> I bought this https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09NMLRS3T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2022-03-01T02:36:56 < machinehum> Have you used JTAG/SWD or just USB?
2022-03-01T02:37:03 < catphish> only USB
2022-03-01T02:37:11 < machinehum> Any debugging?
2022-03-01T02:37:19 < machinehum> Over USB that is
2022-03-01T02:37:29 < catphish> why would you spend $25 on a clone of a board that costs $3
2022-03-01T02:37:35 < HelloShitty> oki tanks
2022-03-01T02:37:42 < machinehum> lol now I've done it
2022-03-01T02:37:48 < HelloShitty> tomorrow I'll asak agaian. Maybe someone else can help
2022-03-01T02:38:34 < catphish> machinehum: that board gets points for having USB C at least
2022-03-01T02:39:00 < catphish> machinehum: anyway, no, i'm kind of a "printf" debugger
2022-03-01T02:39:20 < catphish> so i'm not sure what debugging is possible over USB
2022-03-01T02:40:33 < Laurenceb> wew
2022-03-01T02:40:44 < Laurenceb> github b& ukraine it army accounts
2022-03-01T02:40:50 < Laurenceb> based and redpilled
2022-03-01T02:41:45 < catphish> ukraine open source is bad?
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2022-03-01T02:44:19 < catphish> i did read something earlier about ukraine running botnets :(
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2022-03-01T03:07:22 < tct> so things are about to get serious
2022-03-01T03:09:29 < catphish> i think that happened last week
2022-03-01T03:10:06 < tct> well I hate to be the party pooper but there are levels of seriousness that are hard to come back from
2022-03-01T03:14:10 < catphish> quite. invading a country without provocation and killing civilians is about 8.5/10 on that scale i'd say
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2022-03-01T03:14:54 < catphish> that's about 1.5 points away from genocide :)
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2022-03-01T03:18:11 < Laurenceb> >an-225 trashed
2022-03-01T03:18:14 < Laurenceb> absolute state
2022-03-01T03:18:36 < Laurenceb> >energia is dead, buran trashed, now an-225 trashed
2022-03-01T03:19:09 < Laurenceb> all the decent soviet achievements destroyed by post soviet russia
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2022-03-01T04:27:21 < ColdKeyboard> So how are you supposed to receive unknown number of bytes as slave on STM32 via interrupt?
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2022-03-01T05:04:16 < LikWidChz> Hi folks running into uncharted territory at the moment. Using a rotary encoder someone suggusted I do port manipulation , port reads in one go.. I have the following pin configurations PB12 as common, then PB13, PB13, PB15, PA8, PA9, PA10, 8 rotary encoders with all using a common A pin.. is there a painless way to do this?
2022-03-01T05:04:38 < LikWidChz> *sorry 6 encoders
2022-03-01T05:09:13 < ColdKeyboard> LikWidChz You can read ports in one go but if they are split across different ports ie. PORTA and PORTB, then you willd have to read both of them, or move them to the same port
2022-03-01T05:10:15 < LikWidChz> Hi Cold, thanks for that call out. are all the PBxx numbers one port and PAxx numbers another port?
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2022-03-01T05:16:14 < ColdKeyboard> Essentially the entire port is 32bit location that reflects port status (I think)
2022-03-01T05:17:27 < ColdKeyboard> ie. if you look at you MCUs definition you will have something like this
2022-03-01T05:17:28 < ColdKeyboard> #define GPIOA               ((GPIO_TypeDef *) GPIOA_BASE)
2022-03-01T05:17:51 < ColdKeyboard> Then you will find that base is defined something like this
2022-03-01T05:17:51 < ColdKeyboard> #define GPIOA_BASE            (IOPORT_BASE + 0x00000000UL)
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2022-03-01T05:19:30 < ColdKeyboard> Assuming you are using HAL, look how your HAL_GPIO_ReadPin() is working. It essentially bitmasks the entire port and checks if result is 0 or 1 and that's how it tells you if the pin is high/low.
2022-03-01T05:21:45 < LikWidChz> ill have to rtfm a .. quite a bit. But what Im thinking I can just output the pin state to the serial terminal and watch the values change.. See I think in order for this plan to work I would really need to put all my rotary encoders on the same port
2022-03-01T05:22:44 < LikWidChz> I guess I realize that wont work I have too much shit connected ha, craps.
2022-03-01T05:25:09 < LikWidChz> Thanks for the assistance, need to step away.
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2022-03-01T07:18:56 < ColdKeyboard> Is there an internal counter for I2C? I2cHandle->XferCount is always 0 even after receiving 50 bytes...
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2022-03-01T12:09:33 < Xogium> hmm interesting. Some of my capacitors are packed in esd bags and some are not
2022-03-01T12:10:29 < Xogium> oh 50v. That's probably why
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2022-03-01T12:20:00 < Xogium> I'm not sure if I should store them in the adafruit box or not…
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2022-03-01T12:24:50 < mawk> it's probably fine anywhere
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2022-03-01T12:26:00 < Xogium> mawk: then why pack them in a esd bag ?
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2022-03-01T12:26:12 < Xogium> 50v were packed that way, but 25v wasn't
2022-03-01T12:26:15 < Xogium> weirds me out
2022-03-01T12:26:28 < karlp> rmemeber that it's just an army of people packing things by picking
2022-03-01T12:26:49 < Xogium> true
2022-03-01T12:27:10 < Xogium> but I read that capacitors have increased esd sensitivity the more voltage they have
2022-03-01T12:27:38 < Xogium> but I don't know
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2022-03-01T12:42:45 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmm curious
2022-03-01T12:43:00 < Mangy_Dog> So the 100 quid order of stm32f103cb/c8 i ordered turned up
2022-03-01T12:43:18 < Mangy_Dog> looking at them with my eyes! they look fake
2022-03-01T12:43:23 < Mangy_Dog> the C is smooth
2022-03-01T12:43:27 < Mangy_Dog> not cornered
2022-03-01T12:43:46 < karlp> oh noes.
2022-03-01T12:43:57 < Mangy_Dog> but does show up in stlink correctly and programes filling up the memory and varifyes corretly
2022-03-01T12:44:20 < ventyl> wtf is quid?
2022-03-01T12:44:31 < Mangy_Dog> great british pounds
2022-03-01T12:44:38 < karlp> a legacy currency still used in one or two islands...
2022-03-01T12:44:46 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2022-03-01T12:45:01 < Mangy_Dog> wer havent evolved into euros or dollars yet
2022-03-01T12:45:18 < ventyl> ah, you have to call it quid, because in imperial system, everything else is pound
2022-03-01T12:45:36 < karlp> no, some of them are stones.
2022-03-01T12:45:40 < ventyl> pound-mass, pound-force, pound-sterling
2022-03-01T12:46:03 < karlp> pound-town.
2022-03-01T12:48:19 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/879434766296952875/948169725651845150/IMG_20220301_104723.jpg
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2022-03-01T12:50:39 < karlp> pretty happy with this for a morning's work: https://github.com/karlp/jlink-aem
2022-03-01T12:50:51 < Mangy_Dog> wow even pases the acetone test
2022-03-01T12:51:05 < Mangy_Dog> i cearly cant tell fake from real any more when the real looks fake :o
2022-03-01T12:59:00 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003742225081.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dKSBwXo
2022-03-01T12:59:04 < Mangy_Dog> the listing if anyones interested
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2022-03-01T13:01:15 < josuah> Mangy_Dog: why not digikey/mouser? it is only 8 euro more (free shipping) https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STM32F103C8T6/1646338
2022-03-01T13:03:09 < josuah> mouser ones are only 17 cents more expensive: https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F103C8T6?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsjJi7B1kCaqUwZarfWFigI
2022-03-01T13:08:11 < Steffanx> 0 stock josuah ? ;)
2022-03-01T13:11:34 < mawk> that's a detail Steffanx 
2022-03-01T13:13:28 < Mangy_Dog> yeah lack of stock is pretty key
2022-03-01T13:14:30 < Mangy_Dog> also i think the price has gone up since i ordered
2022-03-01T13:14:34 < Mangy_Dog> on that ali store
2022-03-01T13:14:59 < Mangy_Dog> ohh yeah they have quite considerably
2022-03-01T13:15:32 < Mangy_Dog> the C8 was £22.92 when i ordered it, its now £38
2022-03-01T13:16:01 < Mangy_Dog> 30 for the CB now 39
2022-03-01T13:16:16 < jpa-> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontroller-Units-MCUs-MPUs-SOCs_GigaDevice-Semicon-Beijing-GD32F103TBU6_C94537.html   cheaper and less buggy if you insist on outdated chips :)
2022-03-01T13:16:27 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2022-03-01T13:16:58 < jpa-> and with better cube! at least almost, they don't seem to have heard about "const"
2022-03-01T13:17:39 < Mangy_Dog> thats a TB not a CB
2022-03-01T13:17:57 < Mangy_Dog> less IO
2022-03-01T13:18:08 < Mangy_Dog> id need a drop in replacment for the CB at the moment
2022-03-01T13:18:29 < Mangy_Dog> but i agree thats a decent chip and price
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2022-03-01T13:21:10 < Mangy_Dog> oohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
2022-03-01T13:21:29 < Mangy_Dog> you know that moment you suddenly realise something you should have known for a long time
2022-03-01T13:21:39 < Mangy_Dog> Just looking at the datasheet for the gd it shows the memory map
2022-03-01T13:21:47 < Mangy_Dog> it also shows the ports for the IO
2022-03-01T13:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> it just twigged thats the direct port manipulation is to edit the bit in the memory
2022-03-01T13:22:16 < Mangy_Dog> flips the said port
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2022-03-01T13:24:22 < Mangy_Dog> or maybe its just the memory location for those registers
2022-03-01T13:24:23 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2022-03-01T13:24:28 < Mangy_Dog> my brain pinged :p
2022-03-01T13:24:48 < jpa-> :)
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2022-03-01T14:51:27 < mawk> I swapped a "pin compatible I swear" version of my nbiot module on my board
2022-03-01T14:51:32 < mawk> and now there's a short circuit 
2022-03-01T14:51:43 < mawk> is it my fault or ublox's fault
2022-03-01T14:52:21 < jpa-> be more proactive - don't focus on whose fault it is
2022-03-01T14:52:25 < jpa-> instead focus on who you can blame
2022-03-01T14:52:29 < mawk> lol
2022-03-01T14:53:04 < mawk> look it's nice and toasty https://serveur.io/IR000403.JPG
2022-03-01T14:53:16 < mawk> if I leave it long enough maybe the faulty component will desolder itself
2022-03-01T14:53:19 < mawk> and fix my problem
2022-03-01T14:54:30 < zyp> nice
2022-03-01T14:55:11 < jpa-> i bet you made that short-circuit just to play around with thermal camera
2022-03-01T14:55:17 < mawk> lol no
2022-03-01T14:55:33 < mawk> I already played with it enough
2022-03-01T14:55:53 < mawk> look a thermal selfie: https://serveur.io/IR000401.JPG
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2022-03-01T15:15:58 < Steffanx> Turns out you're not who hot after all, mawk
2022-03-01T15:16:01 < Steffanx> I'm disappointed 
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2022-03-01T15:32:41 < mawk> :(
2022-03-01T15:32:49 < mawk> it was through a mirror
2022-03-01T15:32:52 < mawk> it messed with the ir
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2022-03-01T15:49:03 < karlp> I love how installing python matplotlib pulls in tex and perl
2022-03-01T15:51:46 < mawk> of course
2022-03-01T15:59:13 < jpa-> need to format the units, tex is the only way to typeset µ
2022-03-01T15:59:35 < mawk> yeah well matplotlib has tex support for its labels and legens
2022-03-01T15:59:38 < mawk> you can use $$ directly
2022-03-01T15:59:40 < mawk> I use it all the time
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2022-03-01T16:43:50 < bitmask> hi hi
2022-03-01T16:44:19 < jpa-> 11
2022-03-01T16:49:23 < Steffanx> Welcome sir bitmask  
2022-03-01T16:49:50 < bitmask> howdie do
2022-03-01T16:51:04 < bitmask> a ruble is worth less than a US penny? what did it used to be?
2022-03-01T16:52:22 < karlp> it's pretty hard to say what a ruble is really worth at the moment, not really much of a market :)
2022-03-01T16:52:53 < bitmask> true
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2022-03-01T16:54:11 < karlp> but it was around 4 isk, when my wife lived there it was around 2 isk when the isk was strongest, it's gone well below 1 now.
2022-03-01T16:55:02 < ventyl> it seems that exchange rate is somehow "fixed" now
2022-03-01T16:55:45 < karlp> it reminds me of when the isk stopped getting traded in 2008, you could see price spreads of easily 100%
2022-03-01T16:56:00 < karlp> I was on holidays at the time and had ~20% spreads in excahnge rate on my ccard within a week.
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2022-03-01T17:06:36 < qyx> what do you have now?
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2022-03-01T17:18:21 < karlp> to what? ruble? no idea, no market...
2022-03-01T17:18:39 < karlp> you mean spreads on the krona within a week? well less than a 1%
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2022-03-01T17:36:45 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/5dPbxcc
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2022-03-01T17:43:03 < ColdKeyboard> Why would HAL_I2C_SlaveTxCpltCallback() never get called after HAL_I2C_Slave_Seq_Transmit_IT? Only the error callback is called :\
2022-03-01T17:44:22 < tct> ventyl, they won´t be able to keep that up for long. with reserves estimates would have suggested about a year. with the freezing of foreign assets that will most likely just be a few weeks/months.
2022-03-01T17:44:37 < tct> and yes I´m of course a financial expert like everybody else.
2022-03-01T17:44:52 < karlp> aight, silabs wins.  multicahnnel adc + bluetooth at under 200uA.
2022-03-01T17:45:01 < ventyl> tct: freely-floating value of currency is simply just one of the options
2022-03-01T17:45:04 < karlp> almost an order of magnitude better than stm32wb ;)
2022-03-01T17:45:25 < tct> karlp, yeah, stm32wb is kinda known for ´poor´ low-power performance
2022-03-01T17:45:37 < karlp> it's actually really good, as long asyou don't want the adc at the same time...
2022-03-01T17:45:44 < tct> I replaced an stm32wb part with a nordic nRF part some time ago for that reason
2022-03-01T17:45:54 < karlp> well, nordic is even worse if you want to use the adc at the same time :)
2022-03-01T17:46:13 < tct> did not use adc so just ignore the statement I guess 
2022-03-01T17:46:25 < tct> or are you spreading propaganda? ;-)
2022-03-01T17:46:46 < ventyl> those parts are buggy AF :(
2022-03-01T17:47:38 < ventyl> if refman wasn't so verbose, then errata would probably be much longer than the manual
2022-03-01T18:07:40 < Steffanx> Did you enjoy using the soft device tct?
2022-03-01T18:08:11 < tct> Steffanx, wasn´t really my thing but I can see the appeal that might exist in some situations.
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2022-03-01T18:30:38 < qyx> karlp: do you still habe isk? eur?
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2022-03-01T18:36:36 < ColdKeyboard> Damn HAL_I2C_SlaveTxCpltCallback() never getting called...
2022-03-01T19:10:24 < Steffanx> You still live at the same place tct? I still have to ship you a ' key
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2022-03-01T19:37:46 < Laurenceb> keeekkk
2022-03-01T19:37:47 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1498706268697071616?cxt=HHwWgMC4habavMwpAAAA
2022-03-01T19:42:33 < machinehum> lol
2022-03-01T19:42:43 < machinehum> What do you think they got?
2022-03-01T19:42:56 < machinehum> Cheese buns
2022-03-01T20:11:36 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-98-59.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-01T20:12:02 < kakium69> can pros
2022-03-01T20:12:11 < kakium69> hello ##can32
2022-03-01T20:20:36 < kakium69> vp1050 vs ?1042
2022-03-01T20:22:28 < kakium69> vp1050 replacement with ?1042 good idea?
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2022-03-01T20:39:35 < Laurenceb> anyone know what could cause tcp/ip incorrect checksum errors?
2022-03-01T20:39:49 < catphish> Laurenceb: packets with incorrect checksums
2022-03-01T20:39:59 < Laurenceb>  10.104.0.2.41166 > 46.101.78.95.https: Flags [P.], cksum 0x87a4 (incorrect -> 0xa1cd), seq 379:459, ack 242, win 501, options [nop,nop,TS val 4190034973 ecr 597449287], length 80
2022-03-01T20:40:10 < Laurenceb> I'm not sure how to interpret this 
2022-03-01T20:40:10 < catphish> Laurenceb: that's caused by TCP offload
2022-03-01T20:40:23 < Laurenceb> 10.104.0.2 sent packet with incorrect checksum?
2022-03-01T20:40:27 < Laurenceb> what is offload?
2022-03-01T20:40:28 < catphish> no
2022-03-01T20:40:42 < catphish> Laurenceb: the NIC/driver merged multiple packets together into one larger fake packet
2022-03-01T20:40:51 < Laurenceb> oh
2022-03-01T20:40:52 < catphish> it didn't bother to uptdate the checksum accordingly
2022-03-01T20:41:21 < Laurenceb> is this a problem or not?
2022-03-01T20:41:35 < catphish> it could be a genuinely corrupt packet, but it's MUCH more likely to be offload
2022-03-01T20:41:42 < Laurenceb> I wasnt getting this a few weeks ago and the amount of data being exchanged seems to have increased...
2022-03-01T20:41:46 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-01T20:41:55 < Laurenceb> also speed has reduced
2022-03-01T20:42:07 < catphish> no, it's not a problem, the checksum has already been checked, then the NIC hardware has merged the packets, the OS sees an invalid checksum, but it doesn't need to care
2022-03-01T20:42:18 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-01T20:42:45 < catphish> if you want to be sure, disable TCP offload and see if the errors go away
2022-03-01T20:42:53 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2022-03-01T20:43:16 < catphish> FWIW i hate TCP offload, in my experience, it's not needed because modern CPUs are more than fast enough for it not to be necessary, and it causes more confusion and problems than good
2022-03-01T20:43:40 < Laurenceb> is it done by Linux?
2022-03-01T20:44:01 < catphish> but the idea is that rather than having to handle 10 individual packets, the NIC hardware merges packets in the buffer into one huge packet, then there only has to be one interrupt
2022-03-01T20:44:25 < catphish> well it's done by the NIC hardware, the OS just understands it
2022-03-01T20:44:33 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-01T20:44:38 < catphish> you can control it in linux with ethtool
2022-03-01T20:45:29 < catphish> "ethtool -k eth0" will show the settings
2022-03-01T20:46:09 < catphish> your issue is likely caused by tso (tcp-segmentation-offload) or gso (generic-segmentation-offload)
2022-03-01T20:46:20 < catphish> err, or gro (generic-receive-offload)
2022-03-01T20:46:27 < catphish> i never quite know which one does which packets
2022-03-01T20:47:12 < catphish> but usually they're all enabled, the result being less cpu load, seemingly invalid chcecksums, and weirdly large packets appearing to arrive
2022-03-01T20:49:29 < Laurenceb> ok.. my packets seem weirdly small
2022-03-01T20:50:32 < catphish> well, hard to know to what extend TCP offload is in play then
2022-03-01T20:50:38 < catphish> *extent
2022-03-01T20:50:49 < Laurenceb> tx-scatter-gather: on
2022-03-01T20:51:06 < Laurenceb> generic-segmentation-offload: on
2022-03-01T20:51:19 < Laurenceb> generic-receive-offload: on
2022-03-01T20:51:27 < Laurenceb> those are the only things that are set to on
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2022-03-01T21:41:48 < ventyl> catphish: well, if you are doing real work on your CPU, then burden of generating and checking CRCs for let's say 100Gbit of traffic may be a tad bit too much
2022-03-01T21:44:41 < catphish> Laurenceb: GSO and GRO could definitely mess with the checksums
2022-03-01T21:44:59 < catphish> ventyl: true, once you get to those levels
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2022-03-01T22:14:19 < tomeaton17> hi
2022-03-01T22:20:44 < Steffanx> Lo
2022-03-01T22:20:49 < Steffanx> Long time no see
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2022-03-01T22:26:08 < machinehum> Who knows shit about flash
2022-03-01T22:26:13 < machinehum> https://docs.zephyrproject.org/latest/reference/peripherals/flash.html
2022-03-01T22:27:39 < machinehum> flash_write and flash_read don't mention anything about pages
2022-03-01T22:28:06 < machinehum> You can only erase one page at a time right? That's how a page is defined?
2022-03-01T22:28:28 < bitmask> hmm i think i wanna get back into copper electroplating
2022-03-01T22:28:33 < bitmask> what should i make
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2022-03-01T22:28:56 < tomeaton17> Steffanx yes I actually graduated by now but I couldnt get a job so im doing a masters
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2022-03-01T22:56:21 < Steffanx> How can you not get a job in these times tomeaton17 ?
2022-03-01T22:59:51 < tomeaton17> Steffanx well I didn't really try that hard, I got an offer for MSc at imperial so I took that instead. But graduate market very competitive for area I want to go into
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2022-03-01T23:39:09 < Steffanx> kakium69: musics https://youtu.be/6C3QKHDK-Og
2022-03-01T23:39:25 < Steffanx> CS, tomeaton17  ?
2022-03-01T23:39:30 < kakium69> hello steff
2022-03-01T23:39:46 < kakium69> how is war psychosis?
2022-03-01T23:40:03 < kakium69> from 0-10?
2022-03-01T23:41:21 < Steffanx> Yeah I don't know, I should stop watching the crazy footage though
2022-03-01T23:41:30 < kakium69> hey.. same same
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2022-03-01T23:42:02 < Steffanx> Or lack of a foot in some cases 😬😬
2022-03-01T23:42:25 < jadew> I've been stuck analyzing the situation too
2022-03-01T23:42:28 < tomeaton17> Steffanx well I am doing machine learning masters ideally I want to go into research so I might do phd
2022-03-01T23:42:41 < jadew> it's very difficult to figure out where things are going because you can't trust any of the information out there
2022-03-01T23:42:58 < Steffanx> Yet some footage is crazy. Like the bombing.
2022-03-01T23:43:02 < kakium69> there is a lot of bots and propaganda flying around
2022-03-01T23:43:28 < ventyl> tomeaton17: ML is wanted a lot in automotive right now.
2022-03-01T23:43:38 < jadew> yeah, same footage with different and conflicting backstory, can't make much of it
2022-03-01T23:44:06 < tomeaton17> ventyl self driving or other areas?
2022-03-01T23:44:35 < ventyl> tomeaton17: ADAS in general, self-driving, lane assist, dead angle, you name it
2022-03-01T23:45:54 < ventyl> but any use of ML in automotive is one-fancy-slideshow away. they are crazy after the buzzword without having any real use cases for it often
2022-03-01T23:48:43 < tomeaton17> ventyl sounds interesting. Yes, often people want to use it for tasks when it is really not required.
2022-03-01T23:49:21 < ventyl> I guess that many people think that ML is magic pill for problems which cannot be solved algorithmically
--- Day changed Wed Mar 02 2022
2022-03-02T00:01:26 < Steffanx> Yet.
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2022-03-02T00:01:58 < catphish> it kinda is :)
2022-03-02T00:02:36 < catphish> of course, those things can be solved agrorithmically, you just need ML to figure out what the algorithm is
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2022-03-02T00:37:18 < kakium69> jadew: Steffanx: apparently ukraine had massive amount of natural gas
2022-03-02T00:37:54 < jadew> kakium69, I wonder if it's worth the cost
2022-03-02T00:38:09 < jadew> or maybe it's seen as something that offsets some of the cost
2022-03-02T00:38:27 < kakium69> it's cheaper to deliver to europep
2022-03-02T00:39:59 < kakium69> that means Russia's natural gas business fails
2022-03-02T00:41:29 < kakium69> and oil and gas is 60% of GDP
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2022-03-02T00:50:00 < kakium69> damn it took me long to realize it's about oil/gas yet again
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2022-03-02T01:24:36 < machinehum> Can JLC do mousebites?
2022-03-02T01:25:06 < machinehum> Not a panalised board, two different boards separated with lil mouse nibbles
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2022-03-02T02:24:07 < jadew> well, it looks like a global crisis every 2 years is the new norm
2022-03-02T02:24:26 < jadew> we should buy stocks in psychology departments
2022-03-02T02:31:18 < Laurenceb> hmm muh code isnt working
2022-03-02T02:31:40 < Laurenceb> #define Send_Condition(t_new,t_old,timeout) (t_old && ((t_new-t_old)>(timeout>>1)) && ((t_new/timeout)>(t_old/timeout)))
2022-03-02T02:32:10 < Laurenceb> t_new is unix time in millis
2022-03-02T02:33:03 < Laurenceb> timeout is meant to be a tick that aligns to clock time....
2022-03-02T02:34:16 < Laurenceb> sort of works but theres some sort of rounding error
2022-03-02T02:34:38 < jadew> is your spacebar sticky or something?
2022-03-02T02:35:54 < jadew> hard to judge the code without knowing what it's supposed to do
2022-03-02T02:37:23 < jadew> so if the time between then and now, is bigger than half of the timeout
2022-03-02T02:37:43 < jadew> and now divided by timeout > then divided by timeout
2022-03-02T02:37:49 < jadew> wtf?
2022-03-02T02:39:40 < jadew> is the first condition necessary?
2022-03-02T02:40:06 < jadew> it seems like the second condition makes sure that at least _timeout_ time has passed since _then_
2022-03-02T02:40:16 < jadew> so, there's no point in having the first condition
2022-03-02T02:40:25 < jadew> which checks weather at least half of _timeout_ has passed
2022-03-02T02:40:40 < jadew> so get rid of that...
2022-03-02T02:41:13 < jadew> I would then make that into a function, inline it if you want
2022-03-02T02:41:53 < jadew> that way you can at least control the types, so you can ensure things get rounded the way you expected them to
2022-03-02T02:42:48 < jadew> I'm off to bed
2022-03-02T02:42:53 < jadew> hope there's peace when I wake up
2022-03-02T02:43:00 < jadew> night
2022-03-02T02:43:49 < bitmask> later
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2022-03-02T03:32:18 < Laurenceb> hmm I _think_ I spotted the issue, its not there, its where I set the "timeout"
2022-03-02T03:36:17 < Laurenceb> also #defined functions need to have arguments passed carefully...
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2022-03-02T04:53:14 < machinehum> You guys ever quote fixed price?
2022-03-02T04:53:25 < machinehum> I got a pretty simple little project client wants fixed
2022-03-02T04:53:45 < machinehum> I'm pretty on the fense because that sounds terrifying
2022-03-02T04:54:40 < LikWidChzz> lol that sounds horrible
2022-03-02T04:55:11 < LikWidChzz> whats the person want built?
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2022-03-02T05:01:10 < machinehum> Some electronics
2022-03-02T05:01:11 < machinehum> Small screen
2022-03-02T05:01:15 < machinehum> Basic shit
2022-03-02T05:01:17 < machinehum> Encoder
2022-03-02T05:01:40 < LikWidChzz> custom pcb?
2022-03-02T05:01:52 < machinehum> Yeah
2022-03-02T05:01:55 < machinehum> Super simple though
2022-03-02T05:01:59 < LikWidChzz> have you done all this before?
2022-03-02T05:02:06 < machinehum> Yeah like a billion times
2022-03-02T05:02:27 < LikWidChzz> whats something typically like that go for?
2022-03-02T05:02:37 < machinehum> What do you mean? The services?
2022-03-02T05:02:43 < LikWidChzz> yeah 
2022-03-02T05:03:01 < LikWidChzz> some one off widget and only one of them
2022-03-02T05:03:05 < machinehum> Well you add up the time is takes, then multiply that by a number, then add a buffer
2022-03-02T05:03:18 < machinehum> I actually don't know I'm just quoting on how long I think it will take me
2022-03-02T05:03:24 < LikWidChzz> heh well I was looking for a number in US Currancies.
2022-03-02T05:03:31 < machinehum> 5k maybe
2022-03-02T05:03:44 < LikWidChzz> that person willing to pay that?
2022-03-02T05:04:07 < machinehum> Well that's the game of consulting
2022-03-02T05:04:18 < machinehum> You can't just point blank ask how much money they have
2022-03-02T05:04:39 < LikWidChzz> true, but if YOU know what your time is worth, then quote high
2022-03-02T05:04:52 < machinehum> Yeah
2022-03-02T05:05:08 < machinehum> Well especially for a fixed price
2022-03-02T05:05:58 < LikWidChzz> I mean one of these guys wanted me to design/3d print some plugs, measure shit on someone elses car and in the end he was like "it sounds like you don't want to do this" im like thinking in my head... "Are you high? I don't want to do anything, but if you pay me for it ill do it. Do you go to work every day because you want to? or do you go because they pay you"
2022-03-02T05:08:57 < LikWidChzz> Its also one of those things you can just say thats not how I work, thank you for your consideration and move on. Nothing wrong with knowing your worth.
2022-03-02T05:10:45 < LikWidChzz> 5k seems like a lot of $$ for a widget! gah I built something for someone and should have charged a crap load more $$ for that work.
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2022-03-02T09:11:11 < jpa-> finland is shipping 5000 nokia phones as ammunition to ukraine, putin is preparing to surrender  https://d1yb6h7rvkcay2.cloudfront.net/78/01/dc/f3/d2/b3/4e/11/a2/60/78/96/f3/e1/0d/3c/7801dcf3-d2b3-4e11-a260-7896f3e10d3c-large::r:0.jpg
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2022-03-02T11:40:42 < mawk> colleagues bug me everyday so I clean up my desk
2022-03-02T11:40:43 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/7NgI7lR.jpeg
2022-03-02T11:40:49 < mawk> that looks tidy to me
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2022-03-02T13:35:47 < Steffanx> Looks fine to me, mawk
2022-03-02T13:36:30 < Steffanx> You should release your test hardware mawk
2022-03-02T13:36:33 < Steffanx> The box says ao
2022-03-02T13:36:34 < Steffanx> So
2022-03-02T13:38:08 < Steffanx> But where is your ESD stuff?
2022-03-02T13:39:38 < jadew> ESD is mostly BS
2022-03-02T13:42:03 < jadew> the type of chair you have is very important tho
2022-03-02T13:43:24 < jadew> if you don't find yourself getting electrostatically charged when you stand up, then you don't really need anything
2022-03-02T13:43:48 < jadew> if you do, then wrist strap is all you need
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2022-03-02T14:04:26 < jpa-> i find esd mat most convenient
2022-03-02T14:04:39 < jpa-> but yeah, chair and shirt materials matter also
2022-03-02T14:05:28 < jadew> I have one too, but its main use is to protect the bench from burns, rather than ESD protection
2022-03-02T14:06:35 < jadew> thing is, even with an ESD mat, if you don't have a wrist strap, you can still damage stuff
2022-03-02T14:06:59 < jadew> ESD mats are largely useless, other than for the physical protection they offer
2022-03-02T14:07:27 < jadew> in fact, they might make things worse
2022-03-02T14:08:18 < jadew> if you're charged, I think a floating DUT would be more protected than one firmly held at ground potential
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2022-03-02T14:09:42 < jpa-> when i work on my ESD mat, my hands touch the mat quite often
2022-03-02T14:10:02 < jadew> I kind of avoid that
2022-03-02T14:10:09 < jadew> cuz dirty :P
2022-03-02T14:10:18 < jpa-> you or the mat? :D
2022-03-02T14:10:24 < jadew> haha
2022-03-02T14:10:27 < jadew> the mat
2022-03-02T14:10:50 < jpa-> and the mat surface to sub-surface resistance is pretty large so stuff that is on the mat are definitely not "firmly held at ground potential", there is 10 Mohm or more there
2022-03-02T14:10:52 < jadew> I touch it often too, but I don't like to
2022-03-02T14:12:29 < jpa-> mat also discharges tools like screwdrivers 
2022-03-02T14:13:53 < jadew> how much charge could a screwdriver have? you're the biggest reservoir of charge
2022-03-02T14:14:19 < jadew> if anything, an ESD rug would be great
2022-03-02T14:14:34 < jpa-> true, and conductive tools will be at same potential as person holding them
2022-03-02T14:15:27 < jadew> yeah, most of them are isolated tho, so I'm not sure how charged they can get
2022-03-02T14:15:38 < jadew> I don't think the charge travels that easily on the surface of a screwdriver - no?
2022-03-02T14:15:48 < jpa-> very hard to say
2022-03-02T14:16:01 < jpa-> even gigaohm discharges ESD quickly
2022-03-02T14:16:28 < jadew> hmm... so it might travel
2022-03-02T14:16:46 < karlp> qyx: yes, we still have isk :)
2022-03-02T14:17:00 < jadew> is that EVE online money?
2022-03-02T14:23:32 < karlp> is is that as well, yes.. they made a nice play on words there back in the day
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2022-03-02T14:53:23 < Steffanx> So use that wristband and mat and you're pretty safe, jadew.
2022-03-02T14:54:23 < jadew> personally I stay barefoot and my chair doesn't charge me when I get up, so I don't normally use the wristband
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2022-03-02T15:02:43 < jadew> they made the arrows brown lol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_European_migrant_crisis#/media/File:Map_of_the_European_Migrant_Crisis_2015.png
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2022-03-02T15:08:20 < specing> jadew: our government two years ago: "we are against migrant quotas, we will not accept migrants"
2022-03-02T15:08:45 < specing> jadew: our government a few days ago: "we are ready to accept 200000 ukrainians"
2022-03-02T15:09:17 < jadew> it's a cultural thing
2022-03-02T15:09:44 < jadew> Ukranians share similar values with the rest of eastern europe
2022-03-02T15:09:49 < specing> the distance to syria and eastern ukraine is about the same, but yeah
2022-03-02T15:10:26 < specing> there's also the fact that from ukraine it's mostly women and children fleeing, while from the middle east it's mostly young men
2022-03-02T15:10:38 < jadew> that too
2022-03-02T15:11:14 < jadew> they are recognized as actual refugees, which was not the case in the migrant crisis of 2015+
2022-03-02T15:11:24 < specing> though I believe that we should shelter those young men from war, as otherwise they'll be drafted and forced to fight in a stupid war
2022-03-02T15:11:38 < specing> at least the ones from syria
2022-03-02T15:12:43 < jadew> that's debatable, the geneva convention recognizes the status of refugee only in the first country where they can find safety
2022-03-02T15:12:58 < jadew> that said, countries which are willing to accept them as refugees are free to do so
2022-03-02T15:14:21 < specing> jadew: that is true, and the EU did make monetary deals with turkey to retain those
2022-03-02T15:15:22 < jadew> I miss the times when I didn't care about politics
2022-03-02T15:15:33 < specing> I think the EU should have sanctioned and/or twisted the arms of the stable middle eastern states into accepting these people
2022-03-02T15:16:07 < jadew> I agree, but I believe those in power wanted this to happen
2022-03-02T15:17:30 < specing> stable/rich
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2022-03-02T15:22:13 < jpa-> are there stable middle eastern states? ;)
2022-03-02T15:36:35 < jpa-> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM1e-jeX0AAJAGT?format=png&name=small
2022-03-02T15:37:33 < jadew> lol
2022-03-02T15:37:57 < Xogium> so if esd is a fake thing, what about all these esd damages ? All fake to get more money too ?
2022-03-02T15:38:18 < jadew> ESD damage is real, but an ESD mat won't help you much
2022-03-02T15:38:38 < jadew> what helps you a wristband, if you actually need it
2022-03-02T15:38:44 < jadew> and that costs $2
2022-03-02T15:39:12 < Xogium> but what about giving it all a common ground ?
2022-03-02T15:39:25 < jadew> give to what a common ground?
2022-03-02T15:39:35 < jpa-> giving yourself a common ground is what is most important
2022-03-02T15:39:40 < jadew> yeah
2022-03-02T15:40:23 < jpa-> but the effectiveness of ineffectiveness of ESD mats is quite debatable, i keep my mat clean so it's fine to touch it :D
2022-03-02T15:40:32 < jadew> hehe
2022-03-02T15:40:46 < jadew> I keep mine clean too, but I keep thinking about all the crap I spill on it
2022-03-02T15:41:05 < Xogium> say you have a common ground by using your pc case, hook it up to the mat, then hook up the wrist strap to it, wouldn't that make stable and mostly equal everywhere ?
2022-03-02T15:41:19 < jadew> it would
2022-03-02T15:41:59 < jadew> I guess my point was that you don't need to spend lots of money on mats
2022-03-02T15:42:04 < Xogium> oh
2022-03-02T15:42:28 < jadew> and that sometimes you don't even need a wristband
2022-03-02T15:42:57 < Xogium> I don't know if I payed much for mine or not, honestly… but 15 euros for a 90x60 cm mat made of recycled materials didn't seem too bad a compromise
2022-03-02T15:43:34 < jadew> also, wristbands are a problem if you have to move from one bench to another
2022-03-02T15:43:41 < Xogium> definitely
2022-03-02T15:43:46 < jadew> in that case you would want ESD rugs
2022-03-02T15:43:55 < englishman> or wireless wristbands
2022-03-02T15:43:56 < Xogium> maybe you should get a wireless one ? Ha ha ha
2022-03-02T15:44:09 < Xogium> such scam
2022-03-02T15:44:21 < jadew> personally, when I work with something sensitive/expensive, I hold on to a grounded terminal when I sit up and when I stand
2022-03-02T15:44:33 < englishman> here there are esd trays for going between stations or just put it in an esd bad
2022-03-02T15:44:35 < englishman> Bag
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2022-03-02T16:08:16 < karlp> I just yolo and go "sensitive components? what are those?"
2022-03-02T16:08:32 < karlp> the esd mat sees most use as a heat shield for the bench :)
2022-03-02T16:10:19 < jadew> that's pretty much my policy too
2022-03-02T16:10:50 < jadew> but I do take care if I'm working on something irreplaceable
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2022-03-02T17:57:09 < ColdKeyboard> What could cause STM32G031 to hard-fault when you try to run something like addressvalue = (*(__IO EE_ELEMENT_TYPE*)(pageaddress + varidx)) ?
2022-03-02T17:57:29 < ColdKeyboard> I'm trying to use eeprom_emul from STM but for some reason it's hard faulting
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2022-03-02T18:24:00 < karlp> I would guess you trampled your variables and left memory...
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2022-03-02T20:30:03 < catphish> either you calculated the address wrong, or the memory you're trying to access isn't configured correctly, can't guess which
2022-03-02T20:36:48 < jpa-> SCB->CFSR and SCB->BFAR are the usual things to check after a hardfault
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2022-03-02T21:42:31 < ColdKeyboard> I copied the 32G072 config example that they provided but I'm using 32G031...
2022-03-02T21:43:05 < ColdKeyboard> Maybe the start page address is wrong, I'll have to check that
2022-03-02T21:43:32 < mawk> yeah check all the constants
2022-03-02T21:43:33 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- I can't see CFSR and BFAR in the SCB register
2022-03-02T21:43:53 < mawk> do you have the docs ColdKeyboard ?
2022-03-02T21:43:55 < mawk> it's ARM stuff
2022-03-02T21:44:47 < mawk> so in the programming manual
2022-03-02T21:45:08 < mawk> ah it's a M0+
2022-03-02T21:45:48 < mawk> these registers don't exist on M0+
2022-03-02T21:46:11 < mawk> look in the DFSR register it still has some info ColdKeyboard 
2022-03-02T21:46:57 < ColdKeyboard> DFSR shows 0x1, so just HALTED is set
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2022-03-02T21:48:23 < ColdKeyboard> I have the ref manual but mawk you say I should look at programming manual for the right address?
2022-03-02T21:49:01 < mawk> I guess the addresses of ARM registers are in the arm arm manual
2022-03-02T21:49:19 < mawk> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0419/latest
2022-03-02T21:49:20 < mawk> this
2022-03-02T21:49:29 < mawk> then "memory model" or whatever
2022-03-02T21:49:32 < mawk> and you have all the addresses
2022-03-02T21:49:40 < mawk> and definitions
2022-03-02T21:49:55 < mawk> are you looking at DFSR from the hardfault handler ColdKeyboard ?
2022-03-02T21:50:01 < mawk> look at it before it does a double fault
2022-03-02T21:50:04 < mawk> maybe
2022-03-02T21:51:08 < kakium69> anyone know cheapest rp1210 gateway: usb2.0 connected and with canbus support?
2022-03-02T21:51:23 < kakium69> danfoss cg150 is 430eur
2022-03-02T21:51:30 < kakium69> any cheaper ones?
2022-03-02T21:54:19 < mawk> you need to be under debug to have any info apparently ColdKeyboard 
2022-03-02T21:54:25 < mawk> on M0+
2022-03-02T21:55:24 < mawk> and DFSR doesn't have much info at all so I don't know 
2022-03-02T21:58:26 < ColdKeyboard> Yeah before hard fault I can just see that it has breakpoint set and afterwards the bits flip and fault is set
2022-03-02T21:58:51 < ColdKeyboard> I'm not sure but probably the memory address isn't right or something...
2022-03-02T21:59:00 < ColdKeyboard> I'll give it another look and compare with the docs
2022-03-02T21:59:05 < ColdKeyboard> thanks mawk
2022-03-02T22:00:14 < mawk> there are other debug registers with a bit more info
2022-03-02T22:00:33 < mawk> in section C1.6
2022-03-02T22:03:02 < mawk> apparently under debug when you are in hardfault you can read the fault status register to get the origin of the exception
2022-03-02T22:03:28 < mawk> that's what the doc say but it's not extra clear
2022-03-02T22:03:44 < mawk> >The corresponding FSR shows the primary cause of the exception.
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2022-03-02T22:05:25 < mawk> actually there is no such FSR on M0+
2022-03-02T22:05:27 < mawk> make up your mind, doc
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2022-03-02T22:08:12 < ColdKeyboard> lol, I can't figure out what would be the right memory address based on the datasheet
2022-03-02T22:08:32 < ColdKeyboard> In the example they provide it as START_PAGE_ADDRESS      0x08010000U
2022-03-02T22:08:47 < mawk> 0x08000000 is the start of the flash
2022-03-02T22:08:54 < mawk> well you can use the address you want
2022-03-02T22:08:57 < mawk> but it has to fit in the flash
2022-03-02T22:08:58 < ColdKeyboard> And from the datasheet that would be Bank1 page 2
2022-03-02T22:09:23 < mawk> is it dual bank?
2022-03-02T22:09:37 < mawk> how much flash do you have
2022-03-02T22:09:56 < mawk> your start address is wrong, ColdKeyboard 
2022-03-02T22:10:03 < ColdKeyboard> It's a 32G031K6 so I should have 32K flash
2022-03-02T22:10:04 < mawk> it's too high, you have top 64KiB of flash
2022-03-02T22:10:07 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-02T22:10:21 < mawk> so, how much eeprom do you want? 1K?
2022-03-02T22:10:57 < ColdKeyboard> Yeah, for start that should be enough
2022-03-02T22:11:00 < mawk> put it at 0x8007C00 for instance
2022-03-02T22:11:05 < mawk> that's 1K below the max of the flash
2022-03-02T22:11:43 < ColdKeyboard> Bingo! Thanks mawk!
2022-03-02T22:11:52 < mawk> nice
2022-03-02T22:13:20 < ColdKeyboard> I'm a dummy, I tried bumping the address up and down but was too lazy to actually calculate it
2022-03-02T22:13:49 < ColdKeyboard> The one they use in the example has 64K flash
2022-03-02T22:14:18 < mawk> do it in python
2022-03-02T22:14:19 < mawk> '0x'+'{:08X}'.format(0x08000000 + 32*1024 - 1024)
2022-03-02T22:14:31 < mawk> well even for 64K of flash it's too much
2022-03-02T22:14:35 < mawk> 0x08010000U starts at 64K
2022-03-02T22:14:41 < mawk> or does the address grow down?
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2022-03-02T22:14:56 < mawk> try with 0x08008000 see what happens
2022-03-02T22:15:16 < mawk> but I doubt it
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2022-03-02T22:18:06 < ColdKeyboard> Still works
2022-03-02T22:18:16 < ColdKeyboard> I guess hey use that as top and then subtract page numbers
2022-03-02T22:18:21 < ColdKeyboard> *they
2022-03-02T22:18:52 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-02T22:19:10 < mawk> or your chip has more flash than expect
2022-03-02T22:24:09 < ColdKeyboard> Free realestate :)
2022-03-02T22:24:35 < ColdKeyboard> Btw, am I crazy or uint8_t arr[n] = {0x53}; should initialize the entire array to 0x53, not just the first element?
2022-03-02T22:25:41 < qyx> no
2022-03-02T22:25:52 < ColdKeyboard> Actually no, that makes sense
2022-03-02T22:26:00 < ColdKeyboard> I'm missing [...]=0x53 part
2022-03-02T22:26:01 < ColdKeyboard> nevermind
2022-03-02T22:26:10 < qyx> {0} is special
2022-03-02T22:26:46 < qyx> huh wut is [...]=?
2022-03-02T22:27:08 < qyx> isn't it gnu extension?
2022-03-02T22:28:24 < ColdKeyboard> I believe so http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Designated-Inits.html
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2022-03-02T22:28:40 < ColdKeyboard> Designated initializers
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2022-03-02T22:57:30 < ColdKeyboard> Fun. Now I'm getting EE_WRITE_ERROR when initializing the flash
2022-03-02T23:00:39 < mawk> yes it's gnu extension qyx 
2022-03-02T23:00:45 < mawk> maybe the address isn't really backwards then ColdKeyboard 
2022-03-02T23:00:50 < mawk> try to bring it back to see what happens
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2022-03-02T23:06:33 < ColdKeyboard> It's failing at /* In case no active page is found, set page after last valid page to active state */
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2022-03-02T23:08:40 < mawk> did you change the base address ColdKeyboard ?
2022-03-02T23:08:47 < ColdKeyboard> Seems as soon as I write to a page, next time it tries to write it fails
2022-03-02T23:09:06 < ColdKeyboard> mawk yes I did. Tried multiple of them and same behavior. Read works fine but write doesn't
2022-03-02T23:09:09 < mawk> well that's how eeprom works
2022-03-02T23:09:11 < mawk> you can't write twice
2022-03-02T23:09:19 < mawk> you need to clear
2022-03-02T23:09:27 < mawk> if I'm not mistaken
2022-03-02T23:11:21 < ColdKeyboard> But it fails on init, does that make sense?
2022-03-02T23:13:37 < ColdKeyboard> Hmmm, is this even the right way to do what I'm trying to do?
2022-03-02T23:14:24 < ColdKeyboard> Essentially, once in a while the MCU will get a new config, ie. new i2c address, PWM values etc. Then I want to store them in non volatile memory so that on reset/reboot MCU would reload them.
2022-03-02T23:26:31 < qyx> you can overwrite flash as long as you only change 1 to 0
2022-03-02T23:26:42 < qyx> but not always
2022-03-02T23:27:06 < qyx> if your MCU has ECC on the flash, no further writes are allowed
2022-03-02T23:27:46 < qyx> also on L1 and L0, the logic is reversed for some reason
2022-03-02T23:28:37 < qyx> if you want to overwrite with arbitrary data, you habe to erase the whole block/sector
2022-03-02T23:29:37 < qyx> for saving config you pronanly want an eeprom emulation layer (working on top of flash)
2022-03-02T23:30:08 < qyx> eeprom allows you to change bits in both directions without prior erase cycle
2022-03-02T23:31:09 < ColdKeyboard> I think I found what went wrong. I was playing around with start address but didn't wipe the entire flash
2022-03-02T23:31:18 < mawk> ah
2022-03-02T23:31:26 < ColdKeyboard> Once I did mass erase it started working fine
2022-03-02T23:31:27 < mawk> well you at least need to clear the page/halfpage you want to write to
2022-03-02T23:31:31 < mawk> you don't need mass erase
2022-03-02T23:31:38 < mawk> you can do localized erase
2022-03-02T23:31:41 < mawk> but; you don't have to emulate eeprom to do what you want to do
2022-03-02T23:31:44 < ColdKeyboard> I have to make sure my makefile has script to do a masserase
2022-03-02T23:31:47 < mawk> you can store config just fine in flash
2022-03-02T23:32:17 < mawk> eeprom emulation is done to have byte-wise write/erase functions
2022-03-02T23:32:21 < mawk> per opposition to page-wise
2022-03-02T23:32:26 < mawk> (or halfpage)
2022-03-02T23:32:42 < qyx> yes if you alwaus erase before writing the new config
2022-03-02T23:32:46 < ColdKeyboard> That's what I was trying to do with HAL but was failing. I might go back to that since I'm pretty sure now I was using the wrong address :)
2022-03-02T23:35:38 < qyx> also the usual naming is page = maximum readable/writable chunk of data, sector/block = minimum amount of bytes erasable
2022-03-02T23:35:48 < qyx> some have half-sectors
2022-03-02T23:36:09 < qyx> you cannot erase a single page
2022-03-02T23:38:02 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks. I've used the 25MX external flashes before so I'm somewhat familiar with that
2022-03-02T23:48:32 < Laurenceb> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Russian-Tank-T72-/265575569490
2022-03-02T23:52:05 < catphish> i worry this might be stolen
2022-03-02T23:54:24 < englishman> better have a full tank of fuel
2022-03-02T23:54:25 < ColdKeyboard> What delivery options are available...
2022-03-02T23:56:18 < catphish> "To be picked up from Ukraine"
2022-03-02T23:56:58 < mawk> what do you mean you can't erase a single page qyx 
2022-03-02T23:57:19 < catphish> though the listing has "Royal Mail 1st Class", it seems astonishing that someone put so little effort into this listing
2022-03-02T23:57:30 < mawk> you can erase pages, at least with ColdKeyboard 's chip
--- Day changed Thu Mar 03 2022
2022-03-03T00:01:32 < kakium69> jadew: romanian mig-21 lost to black sea?
2022-03-03T00:01:36 < kakium69> fact?
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2022-03-03T00:18:18 < mawk> fact
2022-03-03T00:18:23 < mawk> ¿
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2022-03-03T00:25:14 < kakium69> rip jadew
2022-03-03T00:26:19 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2022-03-03T00:35:25 < mawk> jadew deaded
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2022-03-03T00:40:32 < Steffanx> No, i saw jadew today. He was driving in this truck on the highway
2022-03-03T00:41:07 < Steffanx> it said RO on the loicense plate
2022-03-03T00:41:08 < mawk> lol
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2022-03-03T00:58:37 < qyx> mawk: how so?
2022-03-03T00:58:56 < qyx> maxronix mx25u?
2022-03-03T00:59:08 < qyx> macronix
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2022-03-03T01:16:27 < mawk> who is macronix
2022-03-03T01:16:40 < mawk> qyx: he has STM32G031
2022-03-03T01:16:45 < mawk> and the doc say you can erase pages
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2022-03-03T02:53:05 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFM24xsEXMAUetB8.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-03-03T03:12:21 < machinehum> Does anyone know how tf to find the base for this https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/apex-tool-group/T0052921799N/4525642
2022-03-03T03:12:34 < machinehum> The power thing the iron plugs into, that you plug into the wall
2022-03-03T03:17:34 < machinehum> Oh found it
2022-03-03T03:17:44 < machinehum> Guess I picked the most expensive iron
2022-03-03T03:23:07 < jadew> kakium69, mawk, Steffanx, true, but it was because of weather
2022-03-03T03:23:36 < jadew> at least that's the official position
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2022-03-03T05:27:11 < ColdKeyboard> Damn HAL, damn I2C clock streching and damn STMs support for I2C slave device...
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2022-03-03T06:06:31 < jadew> I have $100 to buy something for myself, what do I get?
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2022-03-03T06:36:54 < bitmask> a cheap hooker
2022-03-03T06:37:13 < bitmask> i love that news sites have no idea how to hide behind paywalls
2022-03-03T06:37:23 < jadew> never had a hooker, wouldn't know how to behave
2022-03-03T06:37:42 < bitmask> me neither, im more of a rub n tug guy
2022-03-03T06:37:56 < bitmask> which i guess is similar but still diff
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2022-03-03T08:19:10 < Alexer> hrm. the reference manual for STM32F407 says (wrt. DMA with differing source/destination data width) "This packing/unpacking procedure may present a risk of data corruption when the operation is interrupted before the data are completely packed/unpacked. So, to ensure data coherence, the stream may be configured to generate burst transfers" (Section 10.3.10)
2022-03-03T08:20:36 < Alexer> ...any idea what kind of interruptions that might refer to?
2022-03-03T08:22:00 < jpa-> Alexer: turning off the DMA channel enable bit
2022-03-03T08:22:44 < Alexer> ah, thanks. that doesn't sound too bad, then.
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2022-03-03T10:28:37 < Xogium> so who was it that told me about solid jumper wires that could be male to female the other day ? Trying to find some online
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2022-03-03T10:37:01 < Steffanx> I dont know about solid, only know about male to female "dupont" jumper cables which are quite flexible. Except for the "dupont" part
2022-03-03T10:37:44 < Xogium> yeah I suppose these are solid to dupont
2022-03-03T10:37:54 < Xogium> but I don't know
2022-03-03T10:39:10 < Steffanx> Me neither 
2022-03-03T10:40:22 < Xogium> I kinda like the solid kind though…
2022-03-03T10:40:33 < Xogium> fits much better in a breadboard
2022-03-03T10:41:10 < mawk> me I guess Xogium 
2022-03-03T10:41:26 < mawk> the solid core have a tendency to break if you flex them too much though
2022-03-03T10:41:44 < mawk> and solid core or flexible core it doesn't matter, the part that goes in the breadboard is still solid in both cases
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2022-03-03T10:42:13 < Xogium> yeah but… they seem to hold better in place… might just be an illusion though
2022-03-03T10:45:04 < Xogium> it might also be because the flexible kind I got are very long like 10 or 20 cm I forget which
2022-03-03T10:45:12 < Xogium> seem a bit wiggly
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2022-03-03T10:59:48 < mawk> yeah there are smaller
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2022-03-03T11:13:02 < karlp> strandes of wire from cat5 cables work pretty well in breadboards too...
2022-03-03T11:13:45 < mawk> dupont de nemours
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2022-03-03T13:49:48 < mawk> I'm trying zephyr on nrf52
2022-03-03T13:49:56 < mawk> let's see how long it takes to get usb cdc-acm
2022-03-03T13:55:48 < Steffanx> Does it still use the soft device or does it use the zephyr ble stack?
2022-03-03T13:56:19 < Steffanx> (I recall zephyr has its own.. but might be wrong)
2022-03-03T14:08:59 < mawk> I'm not sure Steffanx 
2022-03-03T14:09:02 < mawk> probably both
2022-03-03T14:09:05 < mawk> the softdevice is like the HAL
2022-03-03T14:09:12 < mawk> with zephyr you still need to have a HAL for your device
2022-03-03T14:09:16 < mawk> if zephyr guys didn't write it yet
2022-03-03T14:09:46 < mawk> Steffanx: https://youtu.be/E_KfAEtbq18
2022-03-03T14:09:51 < mawk> it's german quality music
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2022-03-03T14:11:59 < Steffanx> Yeah no thanks
2022-03-03T14:12:03 < mawk> why
2022-03-03T14:12:04 < mawk> it's true
2022-03-03T14:12:06 < mawk> you need to try it
2022-03-03T14:12:14 < mawk> there's no boom boom
2022-03-03T14:12:43 < Steffanx> I tried, listened for 10 seconds and closed it.
2022-03-03T14:13:04 < mawk> 10s is not enough
2022-03-03T14:13:06 < mawk> you need more
2022-03-03T14:13:10 < mawk> to get in the proper mindset
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2022-03-03T14:19:18 < Steffanx> I can and will never be able to get the proper mindset for this
2022-03-03T14:20:24 < mawk> :(
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2022-03-03T15:10:08 < Laurenceb> The International Feline Federation has banned Russian-owned cats from competing in its shows, stating that it 'cannot just witness these atrocities and do nothing.' 
2022-03-03T15:10:18 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk we are in full clown world
2022-03-03T15:10:30 < Laurenceb> no cats bred in Russia can be imported and registered in a FIFe pedigree book.
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2022-03-03T16:10:42 < josuah> I F*CKING DID IT! An USART driver for a simple ARM board (Atmel SAM D09)
2022-03-03T16:11:19 < josuah> it is the beginner, entry-level challenge, and it took me a 3 monthes, trying on multiple boards
2022-03-03T16:11:40 < jpa-> congrats
2022-03-03T16:11:55 < josuah> you ain't gonna have your driver written any time soon if you give that task to me, I'm still waay too overpriced for the poor work I am doing, hahah!
2022-03-03T16:12:11 < josuah> but I'm happy of my tiny progress, I am patient :)
2022-03-03T16:12:15 < josuah> thanks jpa-
2022-03-03T16:13:52 < mawk> bitbanging josuah ?
2022-03-03T16:13:59 < mawk> or driver of USART peripheral
2022-03-03T16:14:28 < josuah> ok, good, now, I2C... https://paste.josuah.net/lbKf80HZKrir3FqzzMn1/Ghost-in-the-Shell-Arise-Original-Soundtrack-01-Opening-Title.mp3
2022-03-03T16:14:39 < josuah> mawk: of course for the driver for USART peripheral, I'm not a savage :)
2022-03-03T16:15:16 < josuah> without DMA, without interrupts for now (WIP)
2022-03-03T16:16:00 < mawk> are you doing this on baremetal?
2022-03-03T16:16:02 < mawk> or under a rtos
2022-03-03T16:16:11 < mawk> dma is hard
2022-03-03T16:16:19 < mawk> or maybe I didn't try hard enough
2022-03-03T16:17:45 < josuah> bare metal, I thought it was best to get familiar with hardware this way
2022-03-03T16:19:24 < benishor> daisy seed looks like a mighty little board
2022-03-03T16:20:10 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-03T16:20:14 < mawk> nice
2022-03-03T16:20:23 < josuah> here is seesaw from adafruit: https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-seesaw-atsamd09-breakout/
2022-03-03T16:20:45 < josuah> lady ada seems to like these Atmel SAM, and use them whenever she needs a small thing
2022-03-03T16:21:13 < mawk> I'm playing with this: https://makerdiary.com/collections/prototyping/products/pitaya-go
2022-03-03T16:21:14 < josuah> crazy fact that the Raspberry Pico is muc cheaper (and includes an FPGA-like PIO feature)
2022-03-03T16:21:17 < mawk> which is an overpriced version of https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Development-hardware/nrf52840-dongle
2022-03-03T16:21:19 < mawk> but with wifi chip and NFC
2022-03-03T16:21:22 < josuah> benishor: let's have a look :)
2022-03-03T16:22:01 < josuah> I feared Nordic's SoftDevice and let my gifted micro:bit sleep on a shelf for now
2022-03-03T16:22:14 < josuah> but maybe it is funnier than it looks
2022-03-03T16:23:49 < mawk> nordic isn't that hard
2022-03-03T16:24:02 < mawk> you don't have to use the softdevice if you don't want to do bluetooth
2022-03-03T16:24:19 < mawk> and using it just means loading a binary blob and that's it, you can use its functions
2022-03-03T16:24:26 < josuah> 
2022-03-03T16:24:29 < mawk>  
2022-03-03T16:25:24 < mawk> their newest sdk works with zephyr, and surprisingly it's not hard to set up
2022-03-03T16:25:41 < mawk> even with the custom board I have, I just clicked "make new board" and defined which pins are used for what, and that's it
2022-03-03T16:25:51 < mawk> and then you click "make new application from example" and choose the example you want
2022-03-03T16:25:54 < josuah> benishor: that thing? https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy/daisy
2022-03-03T16:26:01 < josuah> (sorry, network lattency causing glitches)
2022-03-03T16:27:58 < josuah> zephyr looks like widely present OS for embedded, yet not over-complicated as I'd expect from Linux Foundation
2022-03-03T16:28:10 < josuah> thankfully less legacy than the venerable Linux
2022-03-03T16:28:24 < josuah> maybe it was the point, having not a Linux--, but a bare-metal++
2022-03-03T16:30:27 < karlp> benishor: a friend has a daisy seed, it apparently has some attrociously poor power supply decoupling, he has lots of audio noise on it, 
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2022-03-03T17:02:18 < qyx> jpa-: a single F103
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2022-03-03T17:27:55 < karlp> doh, gatt max attribute length is 512...
2022-03-03T17:28:03 < karlp> wasn't expecting that.
2022-03-03T17:29:26 < karlp> I guess obex or something gets layered on top for "big" data
2022-03-03T17:31:59 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-03T17:35:30 < karlp> or your own magic too I guess. huh.
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2022-03-03T17:39:26 < benishor> karlp: ah , so I need to change those
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2022-03-03T17:40:14 < benishor> other than the mcu is quite powerful and the codec looks decent
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2022-03-03T17:42:42 < jpa-> karlp: for BLE firmware updates it seems to be quite common to just write-without-response blocks of data and then confirm CRC or similar afterwards before writing to flash
2022-03-03T17:43:28 < jpa-> if you exceed the maximum characteristic size, it probably makes more sense to send only as much as fits in a single packet at a time (20 bytes IIRC) instead of having two layers of fragmentation
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2022-03-03T17:48:55 < karlp> yeah, was just reading how that worked,
2022-03-03T17:49:28 < karlp> I did a send with ATT_MTU-1 and it said "clienht will keep reading if it gets max" and it stopped after the third, couldn't work out why at first.
2022-03-03T17:49:47 < karlp> I see your bletalk and https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_BLE_File_Transfer and similar all just made up their own custom framing on top basically.
2022-03-03T17:50:53 < karlp> looks like the other ones that already exist don't really work on ble or something.
2022-03-03T17:51:15 < karlp> I was just trying to use this for debug, dumpbing some buffers to the host, 
2022-03-03T17:51:21 < karlp> starting to ahve to "real" code now :)
2022-03-03T17:51:38 < jpa-> for my stuff, one gsm frame nicely fits in a characteristic :)
2022-03-03T17:52:30 < karlp> I'd still like to know why I need to do bluetoothctl power off && bluetoothctl power on
2022-03-03T17:52:50 < karlp> between everyone python host side call, but that will hopefully become apparent eventually.
2022-03-03T17:53:13 < jpa-> which of the terribly bad python bluetooth libraries are you using? :)
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2022-03-03T18:31:26 < Alexer> < mawk> dma is hard
2022-03-03T18:31:32 < Alexer> it isn't that bad, really
2022-03-03T18:33:15 < Alexer> (of course, it probably depends on what exactly you want to do, but for the simple things at least, it's pretty simple in the end)
2022-03-03T18:39:53 < josuah> Alexer: what hardware did you get DMA working on? STM32?
2022-03-03T18:40:08 < josuah> I was outrageous enough to talk about something not STM32 on #stm32 :P
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2022-03-03T18:49:08 < Alexer> josuah, yeah, STM32 (I think I've used in on F4 (for USART, at least), and on F0 (for multiplexing a led matrix completely hands-off))
2022-03-03T19:32:34 < mawk> nobody likes BLE
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2022-03-03T19:49:09 < bitmask> wow never order used server fans, this thing is disgusting
2022-03-03T19:49:10 < bitmask> what a waste of money
2022-03-03T19:58:14 < Steffanx> Uh what?
2022-03-03T19:59:38 < bitmask> i bought a 'nice' fan recommended for 3d printing, it was like $60+ so I ordered a used one thinking it would be fine, but its gross
2022-03-03T20:00:04 < mawk> clean it
2022-03-03T20:00:26 < bitmask> im gonna try
2022-03-03T20:04:49 < bitmask> i guess its not too bad if it spins ok
2022-03-03T20:04:50 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/d42sQEn.png
2022-03-03T20:05:02 < bitmask> blades are clean if not new
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2022-03-03T20:50:46 < karlp> jpa-: oh gosh, yes, they're all so fucking weirdly half complete.
2022-03-03T20:50:52 < karlp> I'm using bleak, 
2022-03-03T20:51:20 < karlp> kinda... wanted to use one of the things that was on top of bluez, instead of one of the ones that thinks it knows better and tries to take over HCI layer completely.
2022-03-03T20:54:19 < karlp> there's some bluetooth sig linux training that talks about just doing it via python+dbus directly, which ... sounds differently shitty
2022-03-03T20:56:58 < jpa-> i used https://github.com/getsenic/gatt-python
2022-03-03T20:57:20 < jpa-> which is kind of wrapper over dbus it appears
2022-03-03T21:04:57 < karlp> yay, another one, I may have ignore that one at the time as it appears dead
2022-03-03T21:07:23 < karlp> I'd also tried bleson and bluepy as well, all sucking differently.
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2022-03-03T21:23:15 < BrainDamage> I've used bluepy with some moderate success
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2022-03-03T22:57:44 < HelloShitty> Hello. I'm aving a small problem with a code I'm trying to write. I need to include the adc.h header file and I'm doing so like: #include <libopnecm3/stm32/adc.h>. However, when I try to compile, I get an error saying that his file doesn't exist.
2022-03-03T22:58:02 < HelloShitty> Ten, I search for this file in my project folder, and I can find it in:
2022-03-03T22:58:10 < karlp> you need to spell the include properly first...
2022-03-03T22:58:16 < upgrdman> you're probably missing some gcc flag telling the compiler where the "libopencm3" folder is
2022-03-03T22:58:30 < upgrdman> oh ya, lol, what karlp said
2022-03-03T22:58:34 < HelloShitty> ./libopencm3/include/libopencm3/stm32/l4/adc.h
2022-03-03T22:58:52 < HelloShitty> if I add that '/l4' part, I still get the same error
2022-03-03T22:59:01 < HelloShitty> I have other includes and they all work
2022-03-03T22:59:08 < upgrdman> dont use <> around local headers
2022-03-03T22:59:11 < upgrdman> use ""
2022-03-03T22:59:20 < HelloShitty> And I'm using a make file from libopencm3 github examples
2022-03-03T22:59:21 < karlp> no fuck that, use <> for library headers, "" for project ones.
2022-03-03T22:59:35 < upgrdman> karlp, but its in his project folder
2022-03-03T22:59:42 < HelloShitty> yeah, I use <> for header files that should come with the system, so to speak
2022-03-03T22:59:44 < karlp> no..... :)
2022-03-03T22:59:59 < upgrdman> ok fine. well, then you need to tell gcc where it is
2022-03-03T23:00:20 < HelloShitty> gcc should know from default because this is the default include subdir, I guess
2022-03-03T23:00:27 < karlp> if it works with "other" headers, but not that one, then please check your spelling...
2022-03-03T23:00:29 < HelloShitty> at least gcc knows about the other "default include"
2022-03-03T23:00:54 < HelloShitty> ok, fuck me, sorry
2022-03-03T23:01:16 < HelloShitty> I have a disease I invented a couple of months ago
2022-03-03T23:01:20 < karlp> did you just not read what I said first? :)
2022-03-03T23:01:22 < HelloShitty> called fingertip dislexia
2022-03-03T23:01:40 < HelloShitty> so, I swapp chars very often while typing
2022-03-03T23:02:00 < karlp> your compiler did everything it could to tell you, but you do need to read whta it said...
2022-03-03T23:02:05 < HelloShitty> I did read, but I wanted to finish what I was typing and then, I end up not check spelling
2022-03-03T23:02:30 < karlp> it's ok, we've all done it,
2022-03-03T23:02:37 < karlp> but remember this one :)
2022-03-03T23:03:03 < HelloShitty> I hate myself for this
2022-03-03T23:03:11 < HelloShitty> like, you spotted it in less than a second
2022-03-03T23:03:14 < HelloShitty> I just couldn't
2022-03-03T23:03:25 < HelloShitty> and this hhappens all the fucking time with me
2022-03-03T23:03:30 < HelloShitty> ask PaulFertser 
2022-03-03T23:04:01 < HelloShitty> he has been helping me for ages and I repeat this behaviour so many times and I hate it! :|
2022-03-03T23:04:10 < HelloShitty> thanks anyway
2022-03-03T23:06:49 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2604:3d08:937e:d600::eaa6] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4]
2022-03-03T23:11:06 < upgrdman> it'd be kinda neat if compilers would check for typos like that. like have it query the filesystem for "similar" files/paths, and print something like "couldn't find mysiht.h, did you mean myshit.h?"
2022-03-03T23:11:23 < karlp> some IDEs do it..
2022-03-03T23:11:31 < upgrdman> cool
2022-03-03T23:13:34 < HelloShitty> I'm using no ide
2022-03-03T23:13:42 < HelloShitty> I'm using vim, openocd and gdb
2022-03-03T23:14:38 < upgrdman> are you into s&m?
2022-03-03T23:15:13 < HelloShitty> I also have this in my vim, but it causes no problems: >> 22 #include <libopencm3/stm32/rcc.h>  --> 'libopencm3/stm32/rcc.h' file not found
2022-03-03T23:15:19 < HelloShitty> but this causes no problems at all
2022-03-03T23:15:28 < HelloShitty> s&m? no idea what that is
2022-03-03T23:15:35 < upgrdman> nm, was a joke
2022-03-03T23:16:05 < HelloShitty> I think I understood the joke. I just didn't believe you meant it
2022-03-03T23:16:24 < HelloShitty> that is some self inflicted pain related shit, no?
2022-03-03T23:16:44 -!- witx [~witx@a94-132-168-30.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-03T23:16:50 < HelloShitty> IS that becase I'm using libopencm3, openocd and gdb?
2022-03-03T23:16:59 < upgrdman> just seems kinda masochistic to code in vim. ide's make life so much nicer
2022-03-03T23:17:22 < upgrdman> at least you're not coding with notepad.exe
2022-03-03T23:17:22 < HelloShitty> For what I do, I think it makes no difference
2022-03-03T23:17:38 < HelloShitty> I'm in Debian. no .exe whatsoever
2022-03-03T23:18:03 < upgrdman> at least you're not coding with $wine notepad.exe
2022-03-03T23:18:12 < HelloShitty> hehe
2022-03-03T23:18:19 < HelloShitty> No Wine either xD
2022-03-03T23:18:23 < HelloShitty> only in the bottle
2022-03-03T23:21:45 < upgrdman> windows pros: is there any way to do something like "mount a tar file" in windows? i currently use a self-expanding archive to deploy some software as a single EXE, but i dont need compression. it's be faster and more efficient to just "mount" the uncompressed contents instead of expanding it to a temp folder at run time
2022-03-03T23:22:09 < upgrdman> obvious it would need to mount as read-only, which is fine in my case
2022-03-03T23:25:36 < HelloShitty> :)
2022-03-03T23:25:55 < HelloShitty> What means when I get this in gdb: SWD DPIDR 0x2ba01477... Like tons of these lines with the same thing ?
2022-03-03T23:27:51 < HelloShitty> I got this now too:
2022-03-03T23:27:53 < HelloShitty> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
2022-03-03T23:27:53 < HelloShitty> rcc_set_hpre (hpre=hpre@entry=10) at rcc.c:322
2022-03-03T23:30:32 < mawk> who's going to access the files upgrdman ?
2022-03-03T23:30:34 < mawk> your own code?
2022-03-03T23:30:59 < mawk> I'm pretty sure you can mount a virtual disk on windows, but it's more overhead than a tar archive
2022-03-03T23:33:00 < upgrdman> mawk, my code is one of the files, so yes
2022-03-03T23:33:15 < mawk> https://github.com/lowleveldesign/fsmemfs
2022-03-03T23:33:20 < mawk> maybe this, but it doesn't look very well tested
2022-03-03T23:33:27 < upgrdman> i just want a way to map some uncompressed shit directly to the filesystem, without having to extract the file (which wastes ~1 second)
2022-03-03T23:33:38 < mawk> oh maybe this https://github.com/hasse69/rar2fs
2022-03-03T23:33:46 < mawk> you can set the rar file with no compression
2022-03-03T23:33:52 < mawk> but you might need to install some kernel driver or whatever
2022-03-03T23:34:05 < mawk> which isn't unexpected given you basically want to do something like FUSE
2022-03-03T23:35:19 < upgrdman> ya. i was hoping something like that was built into win32 so a small wrapper could make it work
2022-03-03T23:37:15 < mawk> there is the virtual disk thing that is built into win32
2022-03-03T23:37:26 < mawk> the .vhd files
2022-03-03T23:37:35 < mawk> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/disk-management/manage-virtual-hard-disks
2022-03-03T23:38:08 < mawk> but it's a bit heavy for the purpose
2022-03-03T23:38:29 < upgrdman> thx. will see if i can find some wrapper that automated mounting of a VHD and running some script inside the VHD
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 04 2022
2022-03-04T00:08:13 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-04T00:22:00 < HelloShitty> guys, I am confused with something I just found while reading through the code of libopencm3 and I'm not following it
2022-03-04T00:22:23 < HelloShitty> For instance, when we want to use some mcu pin for some purpose, we have to set it to that purpose
2022-03-04T00:22:27 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-04T00:22:41 < HelloShitty> and most of the pins have their alternate functions, right?
2022-03-04T00:23:09 < HelloShitty> so, when we use something like this:
2022-03-04T00:23:12 < HelloShitty> gpio_mode_setup(GPIOA, GPIO_MODE_AF, GPIO_PUPD_PULLDOWN, GPIO8);
2022-03-04T00:23:45 < HelloShitty> why we use GPIO_MODE_AF, and not AF1 or AF6 or whatever directly?
2022-03-04T00:24:10 < upgrdman> probably so they can use one function to configure any gpio
2022-03-04T00:24:38 < upgrdman> instead of gpio_as_af() gpio_as_input() gpio_as_output() etc
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2022-03-04T00:24:55 < kakium69> hello night crew
2022-03-04T00:26:22 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2022-03-04T00:26:22 < HelloShitty> hum, ok
2022-03-04T00:26:27 < upgrdman> anyone know of a windows dev channel? #windows is not, sadly
2022-03-04T00:26:32 < HelloShitty> hello kakium69 
2022-03-04T00:27:14 < HelloShitty> I have no idea about winows channels in libera.chat
2022-03-04T00:27:55 < Laurenceb> reeeee
2022-03-04T00:28:02 < Laurenceb> Putin violated the NAP!!
2022-03-04T00:28:27 < Laurenceb> Ukranian wifes son is fighting back
2022-03-04T00:32:25 < HelloShitty> I have another question. Ref Man says that ADC calibration must be done while ADC is disabled. This means that the ADC must be powered of or that the ADC clock must be disabled? I'm a bit confused about the wording
2022-03-04T00:32:46 < HelloShitty> Because the only thing I see in the code, useing the word enable/disable is the ADC clock
2022-03-04T00:33:11 < HelloShitty> but it would make more sense to be when the ADC is powered off instead
2022-03-04T00:34:12 < HelloShitty> but at the same time, there is an example in libopencm3 github where the calibration is performed after the ADC is powered on
2022-03-04T00:34:50 < kakium69> is ADC calibration done by ROM routines?
2022-03-04T00:35:43 < HelloShitty> I don't even understand what that means... I'm using a built in function from libopencm3
2022-03-04T00:35:56 < HelloShitty> dc_calibrate(ADC1);
2022-03-04T00:35:59 < HelloShitty> adc_calibrate(ADC1);
2022-03-04T00:36:21 < upgrdman> HelloShitty, adc power on / clock on, just not sampling while you calibrate
2022-03-04T00:36:41 < Laurenceb> irl troll idea: "you deserve rape" sign but it says "you deserve Putin"
2022-03-04T00:37:05 < HelloShitty> upgrdman: but refman says different
2022-03-04T00:37:08 < upgrdman> HelloShitty, here's my old f0 code: https://github.com/farrellf/Balancing_Robot_Firmware/blob/master/f0lib/f0lib_adc.c?ts=4#L19
2022-03-04T00:39:48 < HelloShitty> ok, so this means the rf man is kinda poorly choosing wording or what? Like, the ref man is my only source of "information". If I don't follow it, or if it is not properly described, then I'll have even more issues
2022-03-04T00:40:37 < HelloShitty> kakium69: asked me something but I was unable to properly answer, so I guess he's not anything further.
2022-03-04T00:40:54 < HelloShitty> My last resort is brute-force/trial & error
2022-03-04T00:41:08 < upgrdman> adc disabled just means the enable bit is off. doesn't mean unpowered or unclocked
2022-03-04T00:41:27 < HelloShitty> hum ok
2022-03-04T00:41:28 < HelloShitty> I see
2022-03-04T00:41:43 < kakium69> it's not sampling or set to be triggered
2022-03-04T00:41:43 < upgrdman> and ya, it's "fun" figuring out how shit works
2022-03-04T00:42:10 < HelloShitty> ok ok... It's me that didn't understood it properly
2022-03-04T00:42:14 < HelloShitty> thanks
2022-03-04T00:42:24 < upgrdman> and iirc, clocked == powered, no other way to cut power to a periph
2022-03-04T00:42:38 < upgrdman> sure, no problem.
2022-03-04T00:42:47 < HelloShitty> And also, why this doesn't work: gpio_set_af(GPIOA, AF0, GPIO8);... I rather need to use gpio_set_af(GPIOA, 0, GPIO8);
2022-03-04T00:42:59 < HelloShitty> AF0 is mapped in the source code
2022-03-04T00:43:17 < upgrdman> i dont know the ocm3 lib
2022-03-04T00:43:47 < HelloShitty> about the clocked == powered... I'm not sure about it because I have rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_ADC1); and adc_power_on(ADC1);
2022-03-04T00:44:02 < HelloShitty> that's why I was confused about the "enable" word
2022-03-04T00:44:18 < HelloShitty> the only thing I could see with "enable", was the ADC clock funciton
2022-03-04T00:44:20 < upgrdman> what does power_on do?
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2022-03-04T00:45:16 < HelloShitty> sets this bit ADC_CR_ADEN in ADC_CR
2022-03-04T00:45:55 < upgrdman> lol, so power_on() should be called enable()
2022-03-04T00:46:11 < HelloShitty> yeah, maybe you're right
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2022-03-04T00:49:36 < HelloShitty> ok, one last question for today. I'm trying to setup the ADC to read temperatures from a pin. I mean, I have a thermistor connected to this pin and I want to read the value from this thermistor a few times every second, for instance
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2022-03-04T00:49:56 < HelloShitty> Is this the candidate for continuous mode for the ADC?
2022-03-04T00:50:14 < HelloShitty> I'm still not absolutely about the channels, the continuous mode, single mode, etc
2022-03-04T00:50:14 < upgrdman> is that your only use for the adc?
2022-03-04T00:50:22 < HelloShitty> For now yes
2022-03-04T00:50:33 < upgrdman> then ya, cont mode is probably when you want
2022-03-04T00:50:53 < HelloShitty> My goal was to start learning about how to setup clocks, ADC and eventually USART
2022-03-04T00:51:03 < HelloShitty> ok
2022-03-04T00:52:42 < catphish> anyone know how to turn a 3d box into a flattened 2d sheet metal dxf?
2022-03-04T00:54:04 < kakium69> https://wiki.freecadweb.org/SheetMetal_Workbench
2022-03-04T00:54:29 < upgrdman> there's gotta be an easy way. but using a tool like Blender to "unwrap" a UV texture might do the trick. not easy tho
2022-03-04T00:56:03 < kakium69> idk if sheetmetal workbench takes the strech of the metal into account
2022-03-04T00:56:20 < kakium69> but it's a factor
2022-03-04T01:07:33 < kakium69> catphish: project?
2022-03-04T01:07:45 < kakium69> progress?
2022-03-04T01:13:38 < catphish> kakium69: thanks, i was thinking freecad, i have never been able to understand how to use that, but perhaps i should learn
2022-03-04T01:14:10 < Laurenceb> how will Ukraine recover from Putins toxic masculinity?
2022-03-04T01:14:13 < catphish> kakium69: project progress has been very very slow the last 2 weeks, mostly been working out how i'm going to design my battery box
2022-03-04T01:14:14 < kakium69> did you draw those battery frames?
2022-03-04T01:14:14 < Laurenceb> A: it wont lmao
2022-03-04T01:15:19 < catphish> kakium69: yeah, i finally decided today, i won't bother with the steel frame, instead i'm going to build a simple box from 3mm aluminium
2022-03-04T01:15:57 < kakium69> could work
2022-03-04T01:16:11 < catphish> kakium69: like so: https://i.imgur.com/YKyauKh.png
2022-03-04T01:16:22 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-04T01:16:34 < mawk> my usb cdc-acm with zephyr on the nrf52 is working
2022-03-04T01:16:36 < mawk> almost first try
2022-03-04T01:16:39 < mawk> nice stuff
2022-03-04T01:16:53 < kakium69> internal walls need to be connected to floor and sides then it's strong catphish
2022-03-04T01:17:00 < mawk> I can get DTR signal detection to work though
2022-03-04T01:17:20 < catphish> kakium69: that was exactly my conclusion, if all edges are welded, it should be plenty
2022-03-04T01:18:29 < kakium69> you should ask the welder if he wants slots or something
2022-03-04T01:19:08 < kakium69> you have some sort of jet cutter that makes arbitrary shapes easy?
2022-03-04T01:19:22 < kakium69> *to make
2022-03-04T01:19:41 < catphish> kakium69: he said he prefers open corners, and that welding edged inside a box is a pain in the ass, he didn't mention slots, but i'll ask
2022-03-04T01:19:50 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-04T01:20:08 < catphish> kakium69: these sheets will be laser or jet cut by a third party
2022-03-04T01:20:38 < catphish> i think we have a water jet cutter, but i don't think it's very big
2022-03-04T01:21:10 < catphish> my fabrication friend gets such aluminium sheets laser cut by senidng dxf
2022-03-04T01:21:13 < kakium69> it doesn't make sense to have big one if it's not running frequently
2022-03-04T01:21:21 < kakium69> waste of floor space
2022-03-04T01:22:10 < catphish> so i need to 1) cut holes for power cables and cooling 2) convert this to 2D DXF
2022-03-04T01:22:48 < catphish> in related news, after wasting a ton of money on new radiators, i decided to use my car's original radiator, just need to machine some smaller inlet pipes for it
2022-03-04T01:23:29 < catphish> and managed to get a high voltage PTC heating element to fit in the heater in place of the radiator that normally lives in there
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2022-03-04T01:27:24 < kakium69> catphish: welder wants all sides bent?
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2022-03-04T01:28:01 < kakium69> or just one axis bends?
2022-03-04T01:32:32 < catphish> there are no bends in this design
2022-03-04T01:33:12 < catphish> i suggested bending the internal walls, but he didn't seem to think that was worth it
2022-03-04T01:40:17 < mawk> I got the DTR pin working
2022-03-04T01:41:22 < kakium69> you could go full 2d cad catphish
2022-03-04T01:41:26 < kakium69> qcad trial
2022-03-04T01:44:45 < catphish> i think i'll look up some freecad tutorial videos
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2022-03-04T02:52:34 < Laurenceb> oh sheeetttt
2022-03-04T02:52:36 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8
2022-03-04T02:52:40 < Laurenceb> shit just got real
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2022-03-04T03:00:19 < catphish> some might argue it was real last week too
2022-03-04T03:00:34 < catphish> what am i looking at?
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2022-03-04T07:53:46 < sparkyPotato> Has anybody worked with bluetooth?
2022-03-04T07:55:15 < sparkyPotato> Im having issues using the aci_gatt_read_using_char_uuid  functio with BlueNrg1 specifically
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2022-03-04T10:25:00 < jpa-> hmm, funny, GD32F2 seems to have the same second DMA AHB/APB double-read corruption bug as STM32F2
2022-03-04T10:25:32 < jpa-> i wonder if it is somehow architectural, seems weird it would be cloned :)
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2022-03-04T10:47:07 < mawk> how do you trigger it
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2022-03-04T11:04:53 < jpa-> when i use DMA1 to transfer to gpio, my SDIO transfers break
2022-03-04T11:26:56 < jpa-> hmm no, this is something different
2022-03-04T11:27:13 < jpa-> when interrupt occurs in middle of issuing SDIO command, it re-issues the previous command instead
2022-03-04T11:29:47 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sdio_wrong_command.png   weeeird
2022-03-04T11:38:19 < Laurenceb> Yes after 36 straight hours of fighting I was the only one that can open the food.
2022-03-04T11:38:19 < Laurenceb> They call me the 'can opener of Kyiv'
2022-03-04T11:39:05 < benishor> jpa-: what's that software?
2022-03-04T11:39:09 < benishor> Laurenceb: you in kyiv?
2022-03-04T11:39:42 < benishor> Laurenceb: how are you guys dealing with the loss of electricity?
2022-03-04T11:40:17 < benishor> jpa-: it doesn't look like saleae's software
2022-03-04T11:41:25 < ventyl> that's because it isn't
2022-03-04T11:41:50 < jpa-> benishor: pulseview
2022-03-04T11:42:02 < benishor> looks nice, gotta give it a try
2022-03-04T11:45:35 < benishor> https://streamable.com/oyeas1?fbclid=IwAR3ObicnLyTaSX7FY5synYMXeAoQvziRiGWNzObph9LMASF5m1WyRwca_qw
2022-03-04T11:45:56 < josuah> jpa-: What is SDIO good for? Is it that protocol born from SD-card connector? I am curious about it.
2022-03-04T11:47:45 < josuah> benishor: I love russians, we need more of them
2022-03-04T11:47:53 < josuah> and less of them sent at war against Ukraine, that too
2022-03-04T11:48:16 < josuah> > I won't comment on that as I do not want to believe it
2022-03-04T11:48:49 < jpa-> josuah: SDIO is good for accessing SD cards
2022-03-04T11:49:01 < benishor> we need more of them russians for what?
2022-03-04T11:49:29 < karlp> jpa-: given how many arm arch errata workaround handlers there are in linux kernel config, it wouldn't surprise me if there are similar ones in smaller cortexes...
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2022-03-04T11:52:22 < josuah> benishor: I liked this TV interview. Instead of provocative statement to make the other react, sentences that give you no way to react, and yet they keep going just fine
2022-03-04T11:52:44 < qyx> re dma bug, maybe they are trying to maintain bug compatibility!
2022-03-04T11:53:16 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sdio_wrong_command2.png   definitely interrupt related; but looks like the correct value is getting into SDIO->CMDCTL, so maybe there is some weird race condition in gigadevice's SDIO driver
2022-03-04T11:53:33 < jpa-> at that point it isn't even using DMA, so that was a false lead
2022-03-04T11:53:41 < karlp> HelloShitty: re gpio mode setup, because that's the way st designed teh peripheral...
2022-03-04T11:54:09 < josuah> (to the presenter) "I will not say anything" -> what to say then, nothing? reaction from presenter: "yes we all lost our words [kept going with the questions]"
2022-03-04T11:54:09 < karlp> you can certainly argue there should be super simply high level primitives, but you can also use mbed/arduino...
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2022-03-04T11:56:49 < josuah> (to the presenter, on a stock market news channel) "I am drinking fizzy water to the death of stock market" -> insulting everyone watching this? reaction from presenter: "I will just skip what you said [keeps going]"
2022-03-04T11:57:02 < karlp> HelloShitty: if "gpio_set_af(GPIOA, AF0, GPIO8);" doesn't work, and "gpio_set_af(GPIOA, 0, GPIO8)" does, then a) it's because you got a compiler error and you need to use GPIO_AF0? or b) you were shortcutting and typing by hand, in which case b) you need to re-evaluate how you define "works"  because GPIO_AF0 is #defined as... 0....
2022-03-04T11:58:09 < josuah> jpa-: ah right, the actual protocol on top of SPI. do you have a peripheral for it or building it up from GPIO?
2022-03-04T11:58:22 < karlp> re, reading a thermistor a few times a second, I would say that continuous mode is a horrrrrible solution, but it will _work_....
2022-03-04T11:59:05 < karlp> "normal" IMO would be  a timer (either rtos task or real timer) triggering the adc at the desired rate, or even just doing a blocking single conversion on that timer...
2022-03-04T11:59:56 < jpa-> josuah: no, SDIO is quite different than SPI
2022-03-04T12:00:10 < jpa-> and yes, i'm using the GD32F205 SDIO peripheral
2022-03-04T12:01:30 < jpa-> looks like the GD32 code never clears the "command state machine enable" bit, and then it rewrites the CMDCTL registers in multiple operations.. normally the peripheral ignores multiple writes if a command is already being transmitted, but if interrupt occurs in between, the previous command has completed transmit and their register twiddling reissues the command
2022-03-04T12:07:51 < benishor> jpa-: regarding pulseview, what's the type of your saleae? I'm trying to connect logic 8 pro to it and it can't seem to find it
2022-03-04T12:10:40 < josuah> it looks like SDIO has more data pins than SPI, maybe offering higher throughput
2022-03-04T12:11:05 < karlp> benishor: you don't need to have a saleae anything :)
2022-03-04T12:12:03 < benishor> karlp: but I have one and I wanted to connect to it with pulseview :)
2022-03-04T12:12:05 < benishor> I can't seem to
2022-03-04T12:12:17 < karlp> there's some nice bits of footage here, but fuck tthey talk too much and sretch everything out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WUxgmMDts4
2022-03-04T12:12:30 < josuah> there is some effort for making the raspberry pi pico send data to pulseview
2022-03-04T12:12:39 < karlp> benishor: I know a while ago the newer pro serie wasn't supported,  not sure if it is now, 
2022-03-04T12:12:40 < josuah> using the PIO for having enough throughput
2022-03-04T12:12:58 < karlp> josuah: where "enough" means "fuck all compared to a real LA" and with ~zero buffer.
2022-03-04T12:13:03 < karlp> it's a toy project :)
2022-03-04T12:13:17 < karlp> there's similar examples of using ~any dev board as a basic LA frontend.
2022-03-04T12:13:59 < benishor> karlp: they list drivers for "logic 16" and "logic pro" but no cigar
2022-03-04T12:14:04 < josuah> even stupid-ass FTDIs >_>
2022-03-04T12:14:27 < karlp> benishor: yeah, I see that they hve logic pro, no idea.
2022-03-04T12:14:31 < josuah> let's screw it all, set clock rate to 1Hz, and use pen-and-paper plotting
2022-03-04T12:14:38 < karlp> what does "not work" mean anyway?
2022-03-04T12:14:56 < karlp> are you just having basic "can't have usb device open in saleae software at the same time" sort of thing?
2022-03-04T12:15:01 < jpa-> benishor: if you are on windows, you may need to mess with zadig
2022-03-04T12:15:10 < jpa-> my logic analyzer is just some cheap chinese thingy
2022-03-04T12:15:15 < karlp> and what pulseview do you have, how old and from where?
2022-03-04T12:15:40 < benishor> karlp: doesn't detect it when I scan for devices
2022-03-04T12:15:55 < benishor> ubuntu 21.10 here, freshly installed pulseview
2022-03-04T12:15:58 < jpa-> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Saleae_Logic_Pro_8  if it is this, it is not supported yet
2022-03-04T12:16:38 < benishor> yeah, that one, jpa-
2022-03-04T12:16:44 < benishor> fuck a duck :|
2022-03-04T12:16:47 < jpa-> or actually it says there is some experimental support
2022-03-04T12:16:48 < ventyl> benishor: you have to extract drivers from salea SW in order to make it work
2022-03-04T12:17:14 < ventyl> as Logic's FPGA downloads firmware over USB
2022-03-04T12:17:36 < ventyl> also, only some of them are supported. older logic 16 and it's clones
2022-03-04T12:17:38 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, that wiki seems oddly outdated, the code is in https://sigrok.org/wiki/Saleae_Logic for a few years?
2022-03-04T12:17:40 < karlp> nmot thatone
2022-03-04T12:17:45 < karlp> https://github.com/sigrokproject/libsigrok/tree/master/src/hardware/saleae-logic-pro that one
2022-03-04T12:18:15 < benishor> ventyl: got a link?
2022-03-04T12:18:34 < benishor> meh, I'll just use saleae's sw for now
2022-03-04T12:18:44 < karlp> benishor: on the bottom of the wiki page jpa linked it says how to extract it, and where it goes...
2022-03-04T12:19:10 < benishor> thank you guys
2022-03-04T12:23:41 < benishor> Error: 'gLogic16HexFileLinesCount'
2022-03-04T12:23:47 < benishor> when trying to extract the firmware
2022-03-04T12:23:56 < benishor> I had to unpack the appimage to get the main binary
2022-03-04T12:24:01 < karlp> I'm guessing you missed the "Note that sigrok-util (commit 20e302a2) only works Saleae Logic software up to 1.2.10 !" perhaps?
2022-03-04T12:24:12 < benishor> but the sigrok-fwextract-saleae-logic16 tool seems b0rken
2022-03-04T12:24:17 < benishor> ah crap
2022-03-04T12:24:23 < benishor> you're right karlp
2022-03-04T12:24:29 < karlp> and again, if you keep readin the wiki, youcan find a link to the last version....
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2022-03-04T12:26:04 < benishor> finally got the firmwares
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2022-03-04T12:26:30 < jpa-> karlp: sigrok as a project has been a bit stalled, seems like many of the core people have lost interest / have too much else to do; they've been having trouble even keeping the website up
2022-03-04T12:26:52  * karlp ponders if the abrasive nature of some of the maintainers might have perchance had something to do with it....
2022-03-04T12:27:08 < benishor> not sure where to put the firmwares though
2022-03-04T12:27:17 < jpa-> heh, i didn't find much problem with sigrok maintainers :)
2022-03-04T12:27:19 < benishor> page says /usr/share/sigrok-firmware but no such folder
2022-03-04T12:27:34 < jpa-> if you installed under /usr/local, it will be there
2022-03-04T12:27:52 < karlp> benishor: you can run sigrok-cli in verbose mode and it will show you the paths it tries to look in..
2022-03-04T12:27:52 < jpa-> or if you are using some appimage, who knows :)
2022-03-04T12:28:57 < benishor> I simply installed pulseview from the official repository
2022-03-04T12:29:08 < benishor> it didn't drag sigrok as a dependency
2022-03-04T12:29:26 < karlp> then inside pulseview in the help there's a path thing iirc.
2022-03-04T12:29:39 < karlp> can't remember, been a while, don't have it installed on this computer again (yet)
2022-03-04T12:30:42 < benishor> karlp: you're right, it says in the "about" dialog
2022-03-04T12:33:00 < benishor> still no workie though
2022-03-04T12:33:17 < benishor> too bad, it looked like nice ux
2022-03-04T12:38:14 < karlp> it has it's ups and downs....
2022-03-04T12:38:32 < karlp> I _love_ being  able to make stacked decoders easily, for new things on top of spi and so on.
2022-03-04T12:42:33 < benishor> how does it compare to saleae's sw?
2022-03-04T12:43:01 < jpa-> sometimes a bit slower, IMO nicer to use and more features
2022-03-04T12:43:06 < jpa-> lacking in analog stuff
2022-03-04T12:43:41 < benishor> I'll just have to live without it
2022-03-04T12:43:46 < benishor> thanks again for all your help, guys
2022-03-04T12:50:33 < karlp> why the fuck does IEEE 11073 have it's own float format?!
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2022-03-04T13:58:24 < karlp> heh, silabs gecko sdk includes cmsis-dsp, but it's an ollllld version of it.
2022-03-04T13:58:28 < karlp> nice updates silabs!
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2022-03-04T14:04:57 < karlp> great, its old enough to be full of warnings too, yay.
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2022-03-04T14:35:21 < jadew> https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/10/woman-spent-90-3-hour-trip-tinder-date-called-fat-10716140/
2022-03-04T14:37:53 < jadew> TL;DR: fat chick makes 280 GBP in proffits
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2022-03-04T15:00:26 < specing> >  three hours to complete the 82-mile trip 
2022-03-04T15:00:30 < specing> 1st world
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2022-03-04T15:38:45 < benishor> jadew: how's covid treating you?
2022-03-04T15:40:58 < karlp> cute, silabs staff on their community, "nah, no event, you need to push data into the outbound buffers as often as you can, and when you getan "out of memory" error back from the stack, you know to back off..."
2022-03-04T15:42:36 < ventyl> I had that approach out in production once. There was no means to actually check for media timestamps being pushed through the decoder. So there was one empiric rule: hold buffer at 28% and everything will be fine
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2022-03-04T16:07:40 < jadew> benishor, all the symptoms are gone
2022-03-04T16:07:56 < benishor> jadew: well done. how long did it mess with your system?
2022-03-04T16:08:23 < jadew> ~3 weeks
2022-03-04T16:08:52 < jadew> maybe 4, until the cough fully cleared
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2022-03-04T16:25:51 < benishor> ouch, glad you're ok now
2022-03-04T16:26:10 < jadew> thank you
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2022-03-04T17:27:05 < kakium69> I will have struct in a class
2022-03-04T17:27:12 < kakium69> class is templated
2022-03-04T17:27:37 < kakium69> struct is passed to class constructor
2022-03-04T17:28:11 < kakium69> how do I use that struct if it's templated?
2022-03-04T17:28:37 < kakium69> *the class in which it's defined in is templated
2022-03-04T17:29:13 < kakium69> plan is to make all const variables into a struct
2022-03-04T17:30:36 < jadew> MyClass<type>::Struct var;
2022-03-04T17:31:10 < jadew> obviously, from within MyClass you can just say Struct var;
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2022-03-04T17:35:05 < jadew> wtf is a wire fee?
2022-03-04T17:35:16 < kakium69> for wiring money?
2022-03-04T17:35:27 < jadew> I'm being charged by fairview $40 as a wire fee
2022-03-04T17:36:04 < jadew> (I'm supposed to send them money by bank transfer)
2022-03-04T17:36:25 < kakium69> they want money for receiving your money
2022-03-04T17:36:33 < jadew> sounds like it
2022-03-04T17:36:49 < kakium69> in top of that you pay money they ask they want that extra
2022-03-04T17:37:05 < kakium69> it's pretty common nowdays
2022-03-04T17:37:18 < kakium69> especially billing fees
2022-03-04T17:37:41 < jadew> kind of annoying...
2022-03-04T17:38:01 < jadew> I'll end up paying about $700 for 3.5 meters of cable :/
2022-03-04T17:38:16 < jadew> (customs taxes included)
2022-03-04T17:38:24 < jadew> actually, slightly more than that
2022-03-04T17:38:46 < kakium69> the fuq you buying?
2022-03-04T17:38:53 < jadew> coaxial cable :P
2022-03-04T17:38:57 < kakium69> some high precision microwave conduict?
2022-03-04T17:39:06 < jadew> yeah
2022-03-04T17:39:33 < kakium69> hand made by rf-monks
2022-03-04T17:39:51 < jadew> which are also virgins
2022-03-04T17:39:54 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-04T17:52:29 < kakium69>         typedef enum {Motor_Pwm_Control, Motor_Rpm_Control} Motorspeed_Control_t;
2022-03-04T17:52:29 < kakium69>         typedef enum {Motor_Power_Off, Motor_Run, Motor_Startup} Motorspeed_State_t;
2022-03-04T17:52:56 < kakium69> can I force these into uint8_t?
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2022-03-04T17:53:06 < kakium69> and is typedef enum propper c++?
2022-03-04T17:54:55 < jadew> why not enum Motorspeed_Control_t { whatever }
2022-03-04T17:54:57 < jadew> ?
2022-03-04T17:55:25 < jadew> I think the syntax for that is enum Name : uint8_t
2022-03-04T17:56:49 -!- hackkitten [~hackkitte@94.31.104.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-04T17:56:59 < jadew> I'm happy today and I couldn't figure out why
2022-03-04T17:57:17 < jadew> I think it's because the nuclear disaster has been averted
2022-03-04T17:57:31 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
2022-03-04T17:57:35 < jadew> for now at least...
2022-03-04T18:02:24 < jadew> https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-explosion
2022-03-04T18:02:36 < jadew> a good read for everyone these days
2022-03-04T18:03:21 < jadew> "If you are experiencing a medical emergency, call 9-1-1 and let the operator know if you have, or think you might have, COVID-19."
2022-03-04T18:04:44 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-04T18:05:44 < jadew> what's this about? "Try to maintain a distance of at least six feet between yourself and people who are not part of your household."
2022-03-04T18:06:02 < jadew> oh shit... this is about covid lol
2022-03-04T18:06:09 < jadew> they
2022-03-04T18:06:18 < jadew> they're still pushing that shit in case of a nuclear detonation
2022-03-04T18:06:25 < fenugrec_> 10 points if anybody can find a PDF copy of this doc, which clearly exists somewhere since some dude was printing + selling on ebay... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9VkAAOSwVsRcS-mw/s-l1600.png  "TM-2205A Miller xmt 300 technical manual"
2022-03-04T18:06:34 -!- fenugrec_ is now known as fenugrec
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2022-03-04T18:17:21 < jadew> I found two owner's manuals: http://manuals.chudov.com/Miller/Miller-XMT-300-CC-CV.pdf
2022-03-04T18:17:26 < jadew> https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O2205_MIL.pdf
2022-03-04T18:17:41 < fenugrec> jadew, thanks, already have those. Not the same doc unfortunately
2022-03-04T18:17:46 < jadew> this also showed up in my searches: https://i.iplsc.com/poznaj-nasza-subiektywna-liste-najlepszych-darmowych-gier/0007TWL6RRLMBRV5-C122-F4.jpg
2022-03-04T18:18:05 < jadew> not sure if related
2022-03-04T18:18:10 < fenugrec> that's about the face I would make if I found that doc
2022-03-04T18:20:58 < jadew> can't find it
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2022-03-04T18:35:09 < kakium69> do you ever use structs without typedef?
2022-03-04T18:35:55 < josuah> kakium69: I have always a split opinion between typedef or not
2022-03-04T18:36:14 < kakium69> I have never used struct without typedef
2022-03-04T18:36:33 < josuah> when I typedef, I go with "typedef struct some_thing some_thing_t;" or "typedef struct SomeThing SomeThing;"
2022-03-04T18:36:34 < fenugrec> kakium69, I almost never use typedefs. My brain likes to be reminded that it's dealing with a struct or struct *
2022-03-04T18:36:46 < josuah> but currently I do not
2022-03-04T18:37:33 < kakium69> isn't struct keyword also difference in how class and struct differ?
2022-03-04T18:38:11 < josuah> sorry not enough C++ to tell
2022-03-04T18:38:43 < karlp> struc tvs class in c++ is just whether members are public or private by default iirc.
2022-03-04T18:38:48 < josuah> but I remember something about both "struct" and "class" usable interchangably
2022-03-04T18:39:32 < kakium69> when you are dealing with class you don't need to be reminded that you are dealing with class
2022-03-04T18:39:40 < kakium69> ?
2022-03-04T18:39:50 < fenugrec> I don't c++ either
2022-03-04T18:44:37 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-03-04T18:50:22 < qyx> kakium69: yes, there are quite strict distinction
2022-03-04T18:51:09 < qyx> use typedef struct if your intention is to hide the details of the implementation and user of your code is never intended to access individual members within the typedef'd struct
2022-03-04T18:51:47 < qyx> use bare struct (without typedef) if the user of your code is meant to access individual struct members, eg.:
2022-03-04T18:52:07 < qyx> struct message { const char *topic, uint8_t len, etc... }
2022-03-04T18:52:39 < qyx> struct message msg = {"meh", 3, etc. }; send(&msg);
2022-03-04T18:54:29 < qyx> as fenugrec says, I want to clearly see and be reminded if something is wanting to behave like a struct
2022-03-04T18:56:34 < qyx> unrelated, is there any active emergency/disaster recovery wifi mesh project active nowadays?
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2022-03-04T19:35:26 < bitmask> not being able to get ICs is really fucking annoying
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2022-03-04T20:09:56 < Steffann> I can get you some IC bitmask  
2022-03-04T20:10:15 < bitmask> did they fall off a truck?
2022-03-04T20:10:32 < Steffann> Is that relevant?
2022-03-04T20:11:33 < bitmask> not at all
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2022-03-04T20:29:40 < qyx> set all your samd on fire for greater good Steffann 
2022-03-04T20:30:22 < Steffann> Hah,  no we might actually have to use them, qyx
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2022-03-04T21:34:29 < josuah> qyx, Steffann: what about samd and fire?
2022-03-04T21:35:27 < josuah> <qyx> unrelated, is there any active emergency/disaster recovery wifi mesh project active nowadays?
2022-03-04T21:35:39 < josuah> is https://freifunk.net/ what you mean?
2022-03-04T21:36:15 < qyx> yes but no, something like servalmesh
2022-03-04T21:36:19 < qyx> but basically yes
2022-03-04T21:36:27 < qyx> also feuerfunk or how is it called in .at
2022-03-04T21:38:57 < qyx> I mean something like a sparse ipv6 network parallel to the main internet infrastructure with distributed routing, not purposedly built for internet access but for communication when the internet is not available
2022-03-04T21:42:25 < josuah> qyx: I have seen that on some hackerspaces
2022-03-04T21:42:31 < josuah> not by my own eyes though
2022-03-04T21:42:55 < josuah> ah, DN42
2022-03-04T21:43:45 < josuah> the well-known DN42, with some actual hardware here and there that is plugged to DN42 but not Internet
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2022-03-04T21:47:24 < qyx> basically
2022-03-04T21:47:28 < qyx> but including physical links
2022-03-04T21:47:40 < qyx> this looks like a purely overlay network
2022-03-04T21:59:25 < Steffann> Idk what qyx is rambling about regarding setting things on fire josuah 
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2022-03-04T22:06:48 < josuah> Steffann: well I'll try then, maybe the smoke it produce is flashy pink or electric blue (#genderrevealparty)
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2022-03-04T22:44:23 < karlp> hey look, there's a usb-hs isolator at last! https://www.ti.com/product/ISOUSB211
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2022-03-04T22:53:03 < upgrdman> 5.7kV iso... nice
2022-03-04T22:53:17 < upgrdman> that'd be useful for medical shit, which often needs >4kV
2022-03-04T22:55:36 < karlp> yeah, first thing I checked was "is it >4kv" :)
2022-03-04T22:55:38 < qyx> isn't medical shit about super low leakage?
2022-03-04T22:55:53 < qyx> ..too
2022-03-04T22:56:03 < upgrdman> qyx, yes
2022-03-04T22:56:15 < upgrdman> well, leakage to the patient
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2022-03-04T23:25:15 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/_x45d
2022-03-04T23:31:06 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/einherjarvalk/status/1498803573240565763#m
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 05 2022
2022-03-05T00:02:16 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2600:380:8738:c299:fb6b:6e41:a042:6498] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-05T00:02:27 < machinehum> yoy
2022-03-05T00:02:30 < machinehum> o
2022-03-05T00:02:35 < machinehum> What is up ##stm32?
2022-03-05T00:03:11 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-05T00:04:36 < machinehum> hello?
2022-03-05T00:04:54 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@10.121.104.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2022-03-05T00:05:25 < Steffanx> It's me.
2022-03-05T00:05:41 < machinehum> Steffanx: hello
2022-03-05T00:05:50 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2022-03-05T00:06:19 < Steffanx> Not much is up
2022-03-05T00:06:35 < machinehum> Me neither
2022-03-05T00:06:38 < machinehum> I'm on a bus
2022-03-05T00:07:12 < machinehum> Should I crack a beer
2022-03-05T00:07:23 < machinehum> Full hobo style
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2022-03-05T00:11:05 < Steffanx> Lol byw
2022-03-05T00:11:09 < Steffanx> Bye.
2022-03-05T00:11:41 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-03-05T00:16:28 < Alexer> karlp, nice! only 10 years after we got isolated usb superspeed (...and yet, you still can't buy VIA's VO510 chips anywhere, except inside finished products)
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2022-03-05T02:11:15 < catphish> i've spend the entire evening trying to work out how to design a metal box consisting of individual metal sheets
2022-03-05T02:11:47 < catphish> i can't seem to work out how to use any available tool to design a 3d box then export the sides as flat drawings
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2022-03-05T02:12:44 < catphish> freecad seems like it should definitely be able to do this, but it's taking me a while to work out how!
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2022-03-05T02:34:12 < srk> tried https://wiki.freecadweb.org/SheetMetal_Workbench ?
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2022-03-05T02:36:33 < srk> don't have freecad on hand but you can make a 2D sketch, extrude it and use Drawing workbench to create views
2022-03-05T02:36:57 < srk> techdraw now
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2022-03-05T03:26:42 < catphish> srk: yep, i think you're right about the process, he sheet metal workbench seems to only be useful for bending
2022-03-05T03:27:55 < catphish> i'm still getting used to the general hierarchy of things, my "part" is actually lots of separate, unconnected sheets, designed together, which confuses things
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2022-03-05T03:59:46 < srk> catphish: there are couple of assembly workbenches you can use to create complex parts and probably make drawings of that, not sure tho
2022-03-05T03:59:49 < srk> assembly4
2022-03-05T04:00:33 < srk> or a2plus, you can also ask on #freecad .. hm, nvm :)
2022-03-05T04:00:51 < catphish> :)
2022-03-05T04:00:57 < catphish> thanks, i'm getting there
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2022-03-05T06:20:17 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw this is how Russia works
2022-03-05T06:22:16 < kakium69> subtitles available
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2022-03-05T13:30:09 < Laurenceb> keeek femcels are even worse than incels
2022-03-05T13:30:17 < Laurenceb> https://preview.redd.it/7zwyqb0gydl81.jpg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2e187853871d7e54803ffd928af6b677a1cd8b8
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2022-03-05T14:33:08 < Laurenceb> does anyone know if there is a way to create pipes with handles in bash?
2022-03-05T14:33:26 < Laurenceb> so not named pipes, but pipes I can access using handles like in c?
2022-03-05T14:34:36 < BrainDamage> how would that even work
2022-03-05T14:35:50 < BrainDamage> a fifo passes the data as it receives, there's no global state you can address
2022-03-05T14:36:28 < BrainDamage> s/fifo/pipe/
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2022-03-05T15:43:06 < jadew> what's that cheap PSU that works with any input voltage?
2022-03-05T16:03:08 < kakium69> where?
2022-03-05T16:03:39 < Steffanx> Who
2022-03-05T16:04:00 < kakium69> doctor who
2022-03-05T16:16:05 < karlp> jadew: are you thinking of rd6006 family?
2022-03-05T16:17:07 < karlp> Alexer: vo510 is totalyl different IMO, not even comparable usecases.
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2022-03-05T16:55:28 < jadew> that's the one karlp, thanks
2022-03-05T16:58:04 < jadew> I'm thinking of getting one for the car
2022-03-05T16:58:12 < jadew> as general purpose charger
2022-03-05T16:59:15 < jadew> is it buck/boost or just buck?
2022-03-05T17:08:40 < karlp> pretttty sure it's just buck
2022-03-05T17:08:52 < karlp> iirc their older rdsxxxx series was buck/boost, but it's "not as good" ?
2022-03-05T17:09:03 < karlp> a charger?
2022-03-05T17:09:06 < karlp> for charging what?
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2022-03-05T17:20:30 < jadew> karlp, for anything really
2022-03-05T17:20:45 < jadew> laptop for example
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2022-03-05T18:05:30 < karlp> IMO, by _far_ the simplest vehicle option for charging "stuff" is a basic 12V->240V inverter of say 300W or so, and a regular power strip.
2022-03-05T18:05:34 < karlp> just plug in your normal chargers.
2022-03-05T18:05:56 < karlp> efficiency doesn't matter when yuo're running off a car anyway, 
2022-03-05T18:06:29 < karlp> and the convenience and "just works" factor is enormous vs having to construct all the wiring interchange formats and manually dial select voltages on a single output bench supply.
2022-03-05T18:07:11 < qyx> there are those caravan power bricks
2022-03-05T18:07:30 < qyx> which charge from a cigarette lighter socket or solar or 230 V
2022-03-05T18:07:48 < qyx> have soma battery capacity and outputs 12 V, usb and 50-100 W of 230 V
2022-03-05T18:09:15 < karlp> yeah, same sort of thing, kinda "pick your wattage" 
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2022-03-05T18:31:40 < karlp> fucking shell script quoting is so fucked sometimes.
2022-03-05T18:36:11 < BrainDamage> just sometimes? I always fail it
2022-03-05T18:36:22 < karlp> oh it's fucked, normally I can "just throw more quotes at it"
2022-03-05T18:37:52 < karlp> but I'v got some stuff that is either spawning openocd or running netcat to talk to a running one, andit uses $* to autochop some args, and then openocd has this _fantastic_ "default to jtag" 
2022-03-05T18:38:25 < karlp> so you need this godforsaken '-c "transport select swd"' inserted all over the place and I can't for the life of me make it quote properly in my context.
2022-03-05T18:39:03 < BrainDamage> can you show it?
2022-03-05T18:39:08 < karlp> I _kinda_ wish it could just "do what I mean" instead of "do only what I'm explicitly told to do"
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2022-03-05T18:40:55 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/067d8e6e is the script, and https://paste.jvnv.net/view/gk1TL is what it does, but I'm out of time right now honestly, the kids need attention
2022-03-05T18:46:47 < BrainDamage> you could try echo'ing into xargs
2022-03-05T18:47:06 < BrainDamage> echo 'ls -la' | xargs -I{} sh -c {}
2022-03-05T18:47:20 < BrainDamage> so that xargs does the splitting
2022-03-05T18:47:34 < karlp> probably better than the $* yeah,
2022-03-05T18:47:44 < karlp> that script keeps getting bigger and grosser over time :)
2022-03-05T18:57:21 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWEY0dh1sgU musics
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2022-03-05T19:10:51 < Steffanx> Got some ics bitmask 
2022-03-05T19:11:01 < mawk> ice cream sandwich ?
2022-03-05T19:11:12 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/UiQL4v_pss0
2022-03-05T19:11:23 < mawk> it's high quality 
2022-03-05T19:11:26 < bitmask> meet you around back in the alley in 10 min
2022-03-05T19:11:26 < Steffanx> ICs
2022-03-05T19:12:01 < qyx> no ics can be got
2022-03-05T19:12:03 < mawk> karlp what context?
2022-03-05T19:12:08 < mawk> you can double escape it also
2022-03-05T19:13:04 < mawk> like '\\"\'"' or something like this
2022-03-05T19:13:10 < mawk> I forget how exactly 
2022-03-05T19:13:42 < mawk> bash is so nice
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2022-03-05T20:32:25 < catphish> some progress being made on battery box design https://imgur.com/a/kUnMC2Q kakium69
2022-03-05T20:32:40 < kakium69> nice
2022-03-05T20:32:44 < kakium69> you picked up freecad?
2022-03-05T20:32:56 < catphish> kakium69: yeah i think so
2022-03-05T20:33:56 < catphish> i'm sad because i'd love to put a single bus bar across the bottom of those 3 fuses, but there's no way to get it in there
2022-03-05T20:55:28 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/kBhCsyg let's save a doggo
2022-03-05T20:55:50 < kakium69> catphish? why not
2022-03-05T20:56:03 < kakium69> leave a hole across the walls
2022-03-05T20:56:20 < kakium69> avoid pointy corners
2022-03-05T20:56:46 < kakium69> use insulation material on top of the busbar
2022-03-05T20:57:00 < kakium69> are you using traditional fuses?
2022-03-05T20:57:13 < catphish> kakium69: it's the hole in the walls that's the problem
2022-03-05T20:57:19 < kakium69> why
2022-03-05T20:57:33 < catphish> kakium69: for the bar to be able to be inserted, the holes / cutouts would have to be huge
2022-03-05T20:57:41 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-05T20:58:06 < kakium69> run the busbar ouside the wall?
2022-03-05T20:58:07 < catphish> (because of the angle it would need to be inserted at)
2022-03-05T20:58:21 < kakium69> why not leave it open all the way?
2022-03-05T20:58:32 < kakium69> no angles just linear motion
2022-03-05T20:58:44 < catphish> open all the way to the top?
2022-03-05T20:59:05 < kakium69> to side
2022-03-05T20:59:09 < kakium69> wall
2022-03-05T20:59:22 < catphish> but the side wall isn't open...
2022-03-05T20:59:34 < kakium69> you are connecting 3 series into one?
2022-03-05T20:59:42 < catphish> 3 parallal
2022-03-05T21:00:05 < catphish> those 3 fuses sit at the positive end of each parallel cell group
2022-03-05T21:00:41 < catphish> top of the fuse goes to positive battery terminal, bottom of each fuse connects together, and to the main relay
2022-03-05T21:00:54 < catphish> and yes, they're traditional fuses (though pretty hardcore ones)
2022-03-05T21:01:53 < kakium69> just make an opening to side wall?
2022-03-05T21:02:20 < catphish> i don't understand :(
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2022-03-05T21:07:07 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gqUjuIDwSEUJ4E19AFFjsg_4guSzavoM/view?usp=sharing
2022-03-05T21:08:38 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/molex/2076025013/10459057  or use flexible busbar (not 1 meter long but you get the idea)
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2022-03-05T21:12:21 < kakium69> I don't see any problem getting solid busbar there
2022-03-05T21:13:42 < kakium69> run it through the walls
2022-03-05T21:13:46 < catphish> kakium69: oh, a hole in *that* side wall, i understand now, i was confused (not your fault) i consider that to be the back of the box, not the side!
2022-03-05T21:14:20 < kakium69> yes I have bad communication today
2022-03-05T21:14:25 < catphish> kakium69: i think that will work, i can buy a plug to seal the hole after the bar is inserted
2022-03-05T21:14:34 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-05T21:14:57 < kakium69> how about separators to keep it from wall and hold fuses in place?
2022-03-05T21:15:03 < catphish> the other side of the box will have the exact same setup, but with no fuses
2022-03-05T21:15:37 < catphish> the fuses are mounted on these standoffs https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403484749005
2022-03-05T21:15:56 < kakium69> hmm sexy
2022-03-05T21:16:14 < catphish> the bus bar can be mounted on the same bolts as the bottom of the fuses
2022-03-05T21:17:38 < catphish> i have a lot of work still to do on this file, will post when it's all finished :)
2022-03-05T21:19:09 < catphish> need to work out how to bend tubes in openscad (and real life) as much to my annoyance, the coolant inlets of the batteries sit below the level of the frame this box will sit in
2022-03-05T21:20:27 < catphish> or i could just use flexible pipe and a grommet :)
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2022-03-05T21:24:07 < kakium69> you could use slotting in top of the walls
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2022-03-05T21:24:32 < kakium69> I mean in lid you could use slotting
2022-03-05T21:24:46 < kakium69> and have maching "fingers" raising from the walls
2022-03-05T21:26:31 < kakium69> fingers could be also welded on ouside the wall
2022-03-05T21:28:00 < kakium69> kind of mechanical connection that keeps walls from waving from middle
2022-03-05T21:32:00 < catphish> i hadn't given much thought to how the lid will attach, fingers sound cool though
2022-03-05T21:32:57 < catphish> the lid might need to be at an angle (to let water run off it) so that's another fun hassle to consider a little later
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2022-03-05T21:39:17 < catphish> finger joints in metal might not be awesome for waterproofing, i'll have to give that more serious thought
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2022-03-06T01:21:43 < catphish> looking better :) https://i.imgur.com/sODZdlZ.png
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2022-03-06T01:32:54 < jadew> stupid coaxial connectors... why can't they make a single one
2022-03-06T01:33:16 < jadew> trying to mod this USB dongle and I don't have a cable for the connector it has
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2022-03-06T01:52:24 < kakium69> catphish: maybe just box lid thing that overlaps sides
2022-03-06T01:53:11 < kakium69> you could add "indexers" to the bottom of the lid that keep walls straight
2022-03-06T01:54:21 < catphish> despite it looking nice, i think i'm going to lose the bus bar and just use cable, it feels safer since it'll flex in a collision rather than just being forced into the aluminium box edge
2022-03-06T01:55:59 < catphish> yes i think it makes sense to try to make the lid with at least some shallow slots machined into its bottom face
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2022-03-06T02:42:01 < Alexer> karlp, huh, why? (wrt. vo510) - I mean, yes, it's intended for making optical cables, but if you just stick two of them on the same pcb with isolated power, you get isolated superspeed?
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2022-03-06T02:50:02 < LikWidChz> Rando q, is there a limit to how many INPUT_PULLUP's you can define on the stm32?
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2022-03-06T02:57:50 < catphish> no
2022-03-06T02:58:20 < catphish> though you'll have trouble if you define more pullups than actual pins :)
2022-03-06T02:58:31 < LikWidChz> Is there an issue using a pullup on PA10 and PA11? heh nice.
2022-03-06T02:58:56 < qyx> no?
2022-03-06T02:59:01 < qyx> should there be?
2022-03-06T02:59:09 < LikWidChz> I see PA11 is USB 
2022-03-06T02:59:17 < LikWidChz> USB-
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2022-03-06T03:24:19 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
2022-03-06T03:24:21 < Laurenceb> literally
2022-03-06T03:24:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60632949
2022-03-06T03:25:00 < LikWidChz> Alright I am stumped! https://pastebin.com/3HFLPJTi // When I enable line 47, 63, 64 and 97 rotary 3 fails to work. but rotary 6 works fine.
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2022-03-06T03:26:30 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4636/production/_123547971_hi074345705.jpg
2022-03-06T03:26:42 < fenugrec> depending what device this is, sometimes SWD shares pins with USB
2022-03-06T03:27:38 < fenugrec> also, internal pullup is very weak compared to what typical rotary encs want
2022-03-06T03:27:58 < LikWidChz> Hi fenugrec , not using those pins. I guess is it possible that the weak pullup fails when you enable too many?
2022-03-06T03:28:03 < fenugrec> no
2022-03-06T03:28:10 < LikWidChz> that would have been an easy answer.
2022-03-06T03:28:34 < fenugrec> grab a DMM and measure the voltage on the pins as you slowly turn ?
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2022-03-06T03:28:54 < LikWidChz> I do not use voltage they are all pullups only 3 wires per rotary encoder
2022-03-06T03:29:15 < LikWidChz> .. I should say, I do not use 5v/3.3v to them.
2022-03-06T03:29:27 < fenugrec> so ? you can measure voltage on PB8/9 etc, no ?
2022-03-06T03:29:42 < LikWidChz> I can do that, between ground and it?
2022-03-06T03:29:42 < fenugrec> i.e. make sure they're valid logic levels
2022-03-06T03:29:48 < LikWidChz> sure. sure, one momento
2022-03-06T03:30:00 < fenugrec> I didn't scroll back to see if you posted a schem
2022-03-06T03:33:45 < LikWidChz> the plan is to use 6 rotary encoders on the stm32 blue pill. Rotary1 = PB12, PB13 // Rotary2 = PB14, PB15 // Rotary 3 = PA8, PA9 // Rotary 4 = PA10, PA11 // Rotary 5 = PA12, PA15 // Rotary 6 = PB8, PB9 
2022-03-06T03:34:29 < LikWidChz> when I enable the first 3 they work, when I enable the 4th, 4 doesnt work and 3 stops working, its voodoo.
2022-03-06T03:36:51 < fenugrec> does rotary 4,5,6 work individually
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2022-03-06T03:37:17 < fenugrec> if so, then electrically you're probably ok. I'd look into what "simplerotary" does
2022-03-06T03:37:39 < LikWidChz> I have not tried that yet, let me give that a try. good idea.
2022-03-06T03:39:28 < fenugrec> (btw the ref manual usually has a simplified diagram that shows the internal pullup. And the datasheet will have more specs; on F042 it's "equivalent" to a 25 to 55k resistor
2022-03-06T03:40:55 < LikWidChz> so I compiled it again with only 4 , 5, 6 // 6 works just fine 5 works but when I turn the knob I can see my usb hub blink as its powered by USB now. also R4 doesn't do anything
2022-03-06T03:41:30 < fenugrec> how did you wire this thing
2022-03-06T03:42:01 < LikWidChz> all the A/B pins go directly to the micro and the common pin is tied to ground.
2022-03-06T03:42:15 < LikWidChz> the pins are defined as pullups.
2022-03-06T03:42:45 < fenugrec> and you're sure you didn't enable the USB peripheral, or set PA11 to the usb alternate function ?
2022-03-06T03:43:23 < LikWidChz> .... break that down into two parts, how do I disable the usb peripherial? btw im using the usb bootloater and not programming via SWD
2022-03-06T03:44:46 < fenugrec> I don't know how the F103 works. But if you have code that enables the usb peripheral, then it may take control of the USBD+/- pins
2022-03-06T03:44:49 < fenugrec> i.e. a bootloader
2022-03-06T03:45:06 < fenugrec> depending how it passes over control to your user code
2022-03-06T03:47:20 < LikWidChz> I think I figured it out. A weak solder joint ... the best of us the best of us.. lemme re troubleshoot now that I found this
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2022-03-06T04:09:07 < LikWidChz> well nutz, that wasnt it.
2022-03-06T04:16:11 < qyx> wwwwat, you have connected your rotary encoder to PA11 AND you are using USB at the same time?
2022-03-06T04:16:41 < qyx> it is even physically connected to the hub?
2022-03-06T04:16:46 < qyx> how do you expect it to work?
2022-03-06T04:16:53 < LikWidChz> yes but I have stopped because it was doing weird ish.
2022-03-06T04:17:37 < LikWidChz> Im somewhat new to using these chips so its a bit of a learning experience.
2022-03-06T04:19:52 < qyx> thats a common sense, if a pin is connected to something else and you didn't do any provisions for proper function sharing, you should expect weirdness
2022-03-06T04:20:16 < qyx> if a bluepill or whatever it is uses PA11/PA12 for USB, you simply cannot use those pins for anything else
2022-03-06T04:20:41 < qyx> even if you disable USB, because they are probably still connected to the hub
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2022-03-06T10:20:36 < qyx> https://twitter.com/the6p4c/status/1499079170814808065
2022-03-06T10:20:44 < qyx> attn zyp
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2022-03-06T10:23:50 < jpa-> great, another incompatible standard, just what the world needs
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2022-03-06T11:13:14 < Steffanx> We know you love it, jpa- 
2022-03-06T11:13:21 < Steffanx> Purr purr
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2022-03-06T12:06:23 < Alexer> hm, any idea if there's some nice way to stop the ADC (on STM32F407) when doing continuous scan mode with circular DMA, so it'd finish the current scan before stopping? or rather, a nice way to detect when it has stopped - it'll stop nicely like that if you just clear the CONT bit, but I haven't been able to think of an easy way to figure out when it has finally finished (I guess using a timer would work, 
2022-03-06T12:06:30 < Alexer> but it'd be nice if there was something simpler)
2022-03-06T12:06:32 < Alexer> (the EOC flag seems to be useless for this, since the DMA seems to clear it when it reads the data - and even if you disabled the DMA and read the last few samples manually, it seems you'd need EOCS to know when to read each one, and I don't see how you'd be able to tell which one was the last conversion then, without using a timer or something)
2022-03-06T12:13:28 < qyx> I would use single shot mode instead continuous
2022-03-06T12:13:34 < qyx> and trigger the scan with a timer
2022-03-06T12:13:42 < qyx> *instead of
2022-03-06T12:14:32 < qyx> that way you can just disable the trigger timer and then deal with other things when the scan is finished (EOS?)
2022-03-06T12:15:16 < qyx> there should be two flags, end of conversion and and of sequence, cannot you just use the latter one?
2022-03-06T12:16:05 < Alexer> theres only an EOC flag, and EOCS selects if it's set at end of single conversion, or at end of scan
2022-03-06T12:16:45 < Alexer> ie. I think that'd suffer from the exact same problem?
2022-03-06T12:17:17 < Alexer> (and DMA eats the EOC flag anyway)
2022-03-06T12:17:45 < qyx> idk it is some time I did ADC+DMA last and it was on F3, which is newer
2022-03-06T12:19:04 < Alexer> ah
2022-03-06T12:21:01 < Alexer> but yeah, I can go with timers, but it'd just feel a bit weird that there wouldn't be some easier way to detect it, that I'm just missing
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2022-03-06T13:00:56 < jpa-> Alexer: why do you want to finish the current scan?
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2022-03-06T13:33:07 < Alexer> ... OCD? :D
2022-03-06T13:34:33 < Alexer> yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter
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2022-03-06T15:20:40 < catphish> this is going to be a TIGHT fit, but it'll be amazing i it works https://i.imgur.com/I2LlOVD.png
2022-03-06T15:21:23 < catphish> i just need to make sure it's physically possible to assemble it, if done in the right order :)
2022-03-06T15:22:37 < catphish> bent insulated bus bars will definitely be needed, but fingers crossed :)
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2022-03-06T16:11:54 < jpa-> sounds like annoying to fix :)
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2022-03-06T19:51:21 < fenugrec> arg, dealing with some conformal coat that isn't impressed by isopropyl alcohol. Not sure I want to dunk the whole board in acetone... probably wouldn't work anyway
2022-03-06T19:52:15 < jpa-> why do you want to impress it?
2022-03-06T19:52:46 < fenugrec> to bend it to my will
2022-03-06T19:53:27 < jpa-> conformal coatings will conform to your will, it is in their nature - you just need to be conformative, not impressive
2022-03-06T19:53:30 < fenugrec> also to remove an IC without gumming up my vacuum desolder gun
2022-03-06T19:53:41 < fenugrec> heh
2022-03-06T19:54:03 < catphish> i didn't know it was possible to remove that stuff
2022-03-06T19:54:30 < fenugrec> https://www.vaniman.com/ultimate-conformal-coating-removal-guide/  the takeaway is "if isopropyl doesn't work, good luck"
2022-03-06T19:54:33 < jpa-> it varies.. some conformal coatings you can pull off like plasti-dip, some will dissolve in chemicals, and others sit there like cured epoxy
2022-03-06T19:56:11 < fenugrec> I have something between eezy-peel and rock solid epoxy. Sometimes it can come off in small flakes but generally good adhesion
2022-03-06T19:57:23 < mawk> what's wrong with trying acetone fenugrec 
2022-03-06T19:57:30 < mawk> at worst it doesn't work and you wait 30s til it all evaporates
2022-03-06T19:57:32 < catphish> i needed to remove some from a tesla board, that was absolutely rock solid, didn't try chemicals though
2022-03-06T19:57:36 < mawk> and you will have lost 1mL of acetone and 30s of your life
2022-03-06T19:58:01 < catphish> might dig out the board and try some chemicals to make it easier next time
2022-03-06T19:58:14 < fenugrec> mawk, 30s in acetone was not enough, I tried. Drowning it for longer periods needs more time investment for a proper sealed container
2022-03-06T19:58:19 < mawk> a
2022-03-06T19:58:38 < mawk> you have other chemicals?
2022-03-06T19:58:46 < fenugrec> also tried toluene and xylene for short periods, yes
2022-03-06T19:59:04 < fenugrec> and for longer immersion periods I'd also be worried about other components
2022-03-06T19:59:13 < karlp> Alexer: if you think "just stick two" on is "comparable product" then sure, enjoy living in your world :) also, as far as I can tell, you don't actually _get_ any isolation frrom those parts with two back to back, _unless_ you actually use it's optical interface to drive optics. and placing a chunk of fibre inside a product with both ends is _wildly_ different frrom "here's an isolation product"
2022-03-06T19:59:15 < karlp> IMO.
2022-03-06T19:59:54 < mawk> DCM maybe fenugrec 
2022-03-06T20:00:04 < mawk> and scrubbing while it's immersed
2022-03-06T20:00:25 < mawk> but you need to watch out that the solvent doesn't make the fiberglass expand
2022-03-06T20:00:28 < fenugrec> that is very difficult to find here. I do have some brake cleaner which claims to contain some. Good idea, sometimes DCM is just different enough to work
2022-03-06T20:01:00 < mawk> I think DCM will be fine, as it's often used to remove flux? but maybe not with total immersion, I'm not sure
2022-03-06T20:01:54 < fenugrec> I'll try first on some scraped-off coating. If it doesn't work I won't risk the pcb
2022-03-06T20:02:33 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:02:47 < bitmask> dcm is an organic solvent right? does that mean dcm itself is organic or that its better at dissolving organic things
2022-03-06T20:02:53 < mawk> I have some glue on a pcb I'm trying to remove, so I used specialized naphtha
2022-03-06T20:02:56 < mawk> but I think that's specific to glue
2022-03-06T20:03:05 < mawk> both, bitmask 
2022-03-06T20:03:09 < bitmask> ok
2022-03-06T20:03:32 < mawk> well I guess "dissolving organic things" is too broad
2022-03-06T20:04:02 < mawk> it's good at dissolving polar tuff
2022-03-06T20:04:03 < mawk> stuff
2022-03-06T20:04:06 < bitmask> ok
2022-03-06T20:05:27 < mawk> it's a good solvent for many things
2022-03-06T20:09:29 < fenugrec> the chlorine in it makes it Special
2022-03-06T20:09:58 < fenugrec> eh, I was wrong, my brake cleaner has TCE and not DCM. Left a bit of coating to soak for a minute
2022-03-06T20:10:11 < mawk> well that's even more chlorine
2022-03-06T20:10:13 < mawk> the more chlorine the merrier
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2022-03-06T20:13:03 < mawk> maybe heat can speed up things also
2022-03-06T20:13:06 < mawk> but don't set fire to it
2022-03-06T20:19:00 < bitmask> well damn, i didnt think humira affected the common cold, ive had a sinus infection for almost 2 months
2022-03-06T20:19:36 < mawk> you take it for crohn?
2022-03-06T20:19:39 < bitmask> yea
2022-03-06T20:19:44 < mawk> ah that sucks
2022-03-06T20:20:01 < mawk> do you have just a runny nose, or is it more
2022-03-06T20:20:37 < bitmask> really bad sinus headaches when it started but don't have those anymore, my nose just wont stop running
2022-03-06T20:20:44 < bitmask> and its just one side
2022-03-06T20:20:48 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-06T20:20:55 < mawk> in winter my nose never stops running either
2022-03-06T20:21:02 < mawk> and I don't take many medication that could affect it
2022-03-06T20:22:03 < bitmask> unless its from dryness or something i dont really know what else it could be
2022-03-06T20:22:35 < mawk> do you take anything vasoconstrictant?
2022-03-06T20:22:51 < mawk> and aren't you in opiate withdrawals? that makes runny nose too
2022-03-06T20:22:51 < bitmask> nope
2022-03-06T20:22:59 < mawk> like if your dose fluctuates
2022-03-06T20:23:10 < bitmask> no my dose is fine
2022-03-06T20:23:50 < bitmask> chills and hot flashes are the first symptoms of withdrawals i get and i dont have those
2022-03-06T20:23:58 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-06T20:24:05 < mawk> for me it starts with runny nose
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2022-03-06T20:25:18 < bitmask> if it is a cold its viral because i took antibiotics after the first week
2022-03-06T20:25:35 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:25:48 < mawk> and is it green or anything? that would indicate it's an infection
2022-03-06T20:25:56 < mawk> if it's runny but clear it could be just the cold
2022-03-06T20:26:00 < mawk> I mean the cold as in low temperature
2022-03-06T20:26:03 < qyx> or just covid!
2022-03-06T20:26:07 < mawk> lol
2022-03-06T20:26:24 < qyx> (I have a clear running nose now, covid pos)
2022-03-06T20:26:30 < bitmask> its not as thick and colored as it used to be but its still thick and yellow and also very watery, a combo of the two
2022-03-06T20:27:02 < bitmask> like watery to the point i dont even notice it until its dripping out of my nose hah
2022-03-06T20:27:07 < mawk> lol
2022-03-06T20:27:19 < bitmask> but then when i blow my nose the thick stuff comes out
2022-03-06T20:27:51 < mawk> sounds like the regular cold
2022-03-06T20:27:58 < mawk> is your immune system okay
2022-03-06T20:27:58 < bitmask> just very long lasting
2022-03-06T20:28:04 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:28:12 < bitmask> thats why i mentioned the humira, it affects your immune system
2022-03-06T20:28:25 < bitmask> other than that its fine so it must be the humira
2022-03-06T20:28:32 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:29:00 < mawk> it will hopefully disappear in spring
2022-03-06T20:29:02 < mawk> until next winter
2022-03-06T20:29:17 < bitmask> i sleep with tissue up my nose, its very annoying :P
2022-03-06T20:29:38 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-06T20:29:49 < mawk> maybe you can have drugs that prevent your nose from running
2022-03-06T20:29:53 < mawk> but then you will drown in mucus
2022-03-06T20:30:22 < bitmask> i took sudafed two days ago and it was so much worse
2022-03-06T20:30:26 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:30:31 < mawk> sudafed makes it worse
2022-03-06T20:30:32 < catphish> i took my box right back to basics, decided the relays can go outside (in an attached child box) https://imgur.com/a/sxicz6i - i'm much happier with this - just need to design the relay / distribution box now
2022-03-06T20:30:38 < mawk> you need a vasodilator to prevent running nose
2022-03-06T20:30:42 < mawk> the inverse of sudafed
2022-03-06T20:30:46 < bitmask> yea
2022-03-06T20:30:49 < mawk> is yohimbine OTC in your country? you could try it
2022-03-06T20:30:54 < mawk> it was legal a few years ago in france but not anymore
2022-03-06T20:31:01 < mawk> it's from a tree, you can maybe get it from the plant directly
2022-03-06T20:31:04 < mawk> yohimbe tree or something
2022-03-06T20:31:11 < bitmask> isnt that the bark that people use for ED?
2022-03-06T20:31:11 < bitmask> hah
2022-03-06T20:31:15 < mawk> I guess yeah
2022-03-06T20:31:24 < mawk> it didn't make me hard when I took it
2022-03-06T20:32:44 < bitmask> i have a bluechew cialis leftover from when i tried it, but that only works on specific body parts and i doubt the nose is one of them
2022-03-06T20:33:00 < mawk> are you sure it's just some body parts?
2022-03-06T20:33:02 < catphish> sounds like it's so useless it's not banned in UK, just sold (rarely) as a food suppliment
2022-03-06T20:33:07 < mawk> I wouldn't think vasodilatator are specific
2022-03-06T20:33:26 < bitmask> i thought i read it was a long time ago, could be wrong i'll look now
2022-03-06T20:33:28 < mawk> but it couldn't be good to take it everyday
2022-03-06T20:33:53 < bitmask> cialis in low doses is meant for everyday but still just one day of relief would be nice
2022-03-06T20:34:01 < mawk> ah yea
2022-03-06T20:34:19 < mawk> well you could try yeah I suppose, if your doctor prescribed it and is fine with your current meds
2022-03-06T20:34:57 < bitmask> stuffy nose is a side effect of cialis, im taking it
2022-03-06T20:35:13 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:35:17 < mawk> makes sense
2022-03-06T20:35:24 < mawk> but your nose will be stuffed most likely
2022-03-06T20:35:29 < mawk> I don't know if that's worse than runny or not
2022-03-06T20:35:35 < bitmask> guess i'll find out
2022-03-06T20:35:47 < mawk> but it makes veins in the nose bigger so mucus cannot pass
2022-03-06T20:36:02 < mawk> could also make only one nostril stuffed and not the other, as your body naturally tries to regulate it
2022-03-06T20:36:04 < bitmask> crap but then i might just get a headache
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2022-03-06T20:36:16 < mawk> maybe, I don't know
2022-03-06T20:36:21 < mawk> I wouldn't expect it
2022-03-06T20:36:49 < mawk> have some paracetamol with it
2022-03-06T20:36:52 < bitmask> im on the verge of a sinus headache as it is
2022-03-06T20:36:57 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-06T20:37:37 < mawk> better than sinus arrhythmia
2022-03-06T20:37:51 < bitmask> as in the heart?
2022-03-06T20:38:12 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-06T20:38:20 < bitmask> weird transition but ok :)
2022-03-06T20:38:41 < Steffanx> lol
2022-03-06T20:38:54 < mawk> lol
2022-03-06T20:38:57 < mawk> they both say sinus
2022-03-06T20:39:31 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-06T20:40:10 < bitmask> The name sinus comes from the Latin word sinus, which means a bay, a curve, or a hollow cavity.
2022-03-06T20:40:20 < mawk> sinueux
2022-03-06T20:54:04 < bitmask> im gonna try to make an el panel
2022-03-06T20:56:23 < bitmask> i always wanna try these stupid projects
2022-03-06T21:03:06 < fenugrec> make an Apollo DSKY panel
2022-03-06T21:03:32 < bitmask> done too many times
2022-03-06T21:04:14 < bitmask> though im using ben's (im assuming thats where you got the idea) info
2022-03-06T21:04:27 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-06T21:04:58 < fenugrec> I did see ben (from applied science iirc ?)'s video, but I saw the panel initially on curiousmarc' channel
2022-03-06T21:05:43 < bitmask> yea applied science, my fav ytube channel
2022-03-06T21:06:01 < bitmask> dont know curiousmarc though i'll have to look it up
2022-03-06T21:06:17 < fenugrec> I don't understand where he gets the funding + time to do all that stuff. "why yes of course, perfect project for my x-ray machine / mass spectrometer at home"
2022-03-06T21:06:18 < bitmask> im watching stuffmadehere's latest vid
2022-03-06T21:06:35 < bitmask> who ben or this marc guy
2022-03-06T21:06:38 < fenugrec> ben
2022-03-06T21:06:39 < fenugrec> well both
2022-03-06T21:06:59 < bitmask> yea he works for valve i think and buys all his tools used, so i think most of his extra money just goes into this stuff
2022-03-06T21:07:21 < bitmask> time though? that im at a loss for
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2022-03-06T21:48:30 < Laurenceb> Women flee to safety while men forced to stay and fight. Women most affected
2022-03-06T21:55:36 < karlp> if you're dead you're not affected anymore.
2022-03-06T21:55:47 < karlp> also, ffs, what is wrong with you?
2022-03-06T21:56:02 < bitmask> no one will ever figure it out
2022-03-06T21:57:37 < jpa-> uk has a multi-generational secret study project: shake babies, then as adults make them design baby shaking equipment and see what happens
2022-03-06T21:57:51 < jpa-> results were worse than brexit
2022-03-06T21:58:50 < mawk> Laurenceb: if men have to be forced, that means they would do like women if they could
2022-03-06T21:58:59 < mawk> so that doesn't say anything about men vs women
2022-03-06T21:59:16 < mawk> both like being alive
2022-03-06T22:02:53 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-03-06T22:27:37 < kakium69> I think ben has worked for silicon valley tech companies or something
2022-03-06T22:28:47 < kakium69> but is most likelly now just youtuber / freelancer
2022-03-06T22:31:09 < mawk> which ben
2022-03-06T22:31:11 < mawk> ben eater?
2022-03-06T22:33:50 < bitmask> last i heard he worked for valve
2022-03-06T22:34:10 < bitmask> no not ben eater
2022-03-06T22:34:15 < bitmask> ben from applied science
2022-03-06T22:34:41 < mawk> ah
2022-03-06T22:34:41 < bitmask> oh wait or was it with the oculus, now i forget
2022-03-06T22:34:50 < mawk> so faceboon?
2022-03-06T22:34:54 < mawk> facebook*
2022-03-06T22:34:59 < bitmask> i dont remember now
2022-03-06T22:35:09 < bitmask> maybe it was valve with the vive, not sure why im thinking vr headset
2022-03-06T22:37:09 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-06T22:38:18 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-06T22:38:26 < mawk> a
2022-03-06T22:40:47 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-06T22:57:16 < Steffanx> bitmask: Verily, Google, Valve,
2022-03-06T22:57:28 < Steffanx> but  valve was like 8 years ago
2022-03-06T22:57:45 < bitmask> oh oops
2022-03-06T23:00:27 < Steffanx> and regarding the "where does he get the time" He only posts like every 2 months
2022-03-06T23:00:37 < Steffanx> i would rather want to know, where he gets the motivation :P
2022-03-06T23:01:03 < Steffanx> because my motivation is like none-existent
2022-03-06T23:33:48 < kakium69> ^ that
2022-03-06T23:36:48 < kakium69> PaulFertser: are you ready for alternative internets?
2022-03-06T23:37:53 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-06T23:38:14 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFNMGOt9XoAE-438.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-03-06T23:39:58 < kakium69> this is?
2022-03-06T23:41:25 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-06T23:42:33 < Laurenceb> searches for <country name>+x in Korea
2022-03-06T23:43:52 < kakium69> interesting
2022-03-06T23:44:14 < kakium69> funland is like this welfare magnet thing
2022-03-06T23:44:23 < kakium69> even in korea
2022-03-06T23:45:22 < qyx> PaulFertser: are you in .ru?
2022-03-06T23:48:49 < fenugrec> i believe he's in .cccp now
2022-03-06T23:51:22 < kakium69> interesting thing there was suffix for cccp for a short moment once
2022-03-06T23:51:32 < fenugrec> i was wondering the same thing, heh
--- Day changed Mon Mar 07 2022
2022-03-07T00:02:48 < HelloShitty> Hi. Would anyone be able to check a snipet to see if I'm missing anything obvious to get my ADC calibrated? I get stuck in the calibration process
2022-03-07T00:02:51 < HelloShitty> https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2266264
2022-03-07T00:21:59 < HelloShitty> I guess I'm not gonna get lucky
2022-03-07T00:22:47 < HelloShitty> So, if I do this: ADC_CR &= ~ADC_CR_ADCALDIF; , I'll set this ADC_CR_ADCALDIF in ADC_CR to 0, right?
2022-03-07T00:25:56 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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2022-03-07T00:26:53 < mawk> you are depressed Steffanx 
2022-03-07T00:33:22 < LikWidChz> Hi folks the stm32 bluepill, basic q, when powering the device from a battery can you run this directly into the 5v pin? im trying to power before it hits the vreg that drops it down to 3.3v
2022-03-07T00:38:37 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-07T00:40:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/1646601648000-png.645191/
2022-03-07T00:42:28 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-03-07T00:48:20 < Steffanx> Who knows, mawk 
2022-03-07T01:12:23 < b-rex> we miss you mawk. come back to beyond the wall with the wildlings. we have great food and conversation, and you never get banned.
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2022-03-07T03:21:32 < catphish> kakium69: if you still care - i did a load more on my box today, simplified the internals a lot, moved the relays to the outside, they can be enclosed independently https://imgur.com/a/sCNXucW
2022-03-07T03:21:54 < kakium69> im here
2022-03-07T03:23:26 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@176-93-24-47.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-03-07T03:23:32 < catphish> lol
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2022-03-07T03:28:50 < catphish> this is the file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jH96EwyKuM7HLeo843e8PFWUwWHBCybG/view?usp=sharing - it's probably a mess, but i'm getting there
2022-03-07T03:34:00 < catphish> anyway, best sleep, tomorrow is back to hands on mechanical jiggery, installing electric heater in fan, machining radiator pipework
2022-03-07T03:34:48 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFNJGXhyUYAAfLIh.png%3Fname%3Dorig
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2022-03-07T09:26:39 < PaulFertser> kakium69: qyx: yes, not ready at all
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2022-03-07T10:31:57 < qyx> PaulFertser: any plans? I assume you will not be reachable soon
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2022-03-07T10:37:04 < PaulFertser> qyx: I can't have any plans, nobody knows what's going to happen
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2022-03-07T10:38:39 < qyx> :/
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2022-03-07T13:08:24 < Laurenceb> https://whatsnew2day.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Russian-gymnast-sparks-outrage-after-wearing-national-WAR-symbol-on.jpg
2022-03-07T13:08:37 < Laurenceb> kek "Z" is the new swastika
2022-03-07T13:12:30 < mawk> lol
2022-03-07T13:15:42 < jpa-> ieee is already in progress of updating all impedance formulas with the less offensive form of  卐 = U / I
2022-03-07T13:16:46 < qyx> inb4 zfs and zram are being renamed
2022-03-07T13:17:12 < qyx> zvs and zcs switching are renamed to "no voltage switching" and "no current switching" respectively
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2022-03-07T14:07:33 < englishman> the funny part is he lost to a ukranian
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2022-03-07T15:00:18 < kakium69> hello ##warroom32
2022-03-07T15:27:29 < mawk> >Attention dear customers. Due to the prevailing "plague" we have small staff problems, so we apologize for any delays and we ask for your understanding.
2022-03-07T15:31:57 < Alexer> kakium69, you say that, but one programming channel I'm on has turned into a total #wartracker - like 99% of the discussion is about the war now :P
2022-03-07T15:33:04 < kakium69> everyone is a war expert now
2022-03-07T15:36:06 < BrainDamage> jaden hasn't been panicking about that one, didn't he?
2022-03-07T15:36:18 < BrainDamage> or maybe he's too busy shivering with fear in a bunker
2022-03-07T15:38:34 < jpa-> he's crying after his lost shorts
2022-03-07T15:38:46 < mawk> where is he
2022-03-07T15:39:07 < mawk> tonight my dutch class start again, vacation is over
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2022-03-07T15:55:43 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna do it
2022-03-07T15:55:48 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna say it
2022-03-07T15:55:52 < Laurenceb> Z
2022-03-07T15:57:39 < Laurenceb> meme to reality lag is now down to 1 day
2022-03-07T16:06:36 < Mangy_Dog> errrr?
2022-03-07T16:12:23 < mawk> don't say Z
2022-03-07T16:12:26 < mawk> say 卐
2022-03-07T16:12:30 < mawk> be respectful of the dead 
2022-03-07T16:24:14 < fenugrec> i was wondering the same thing, heh
2022-03-07T16:24:18 < fenugrec> ops
2022-03-07T16:24:19 < fenugrec> wrong paste
2022-03-07T16:29:26 < sauce> could we not
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2022-03-07T19:16:57 < mawk> look muh raspberry-pi-based make:r ware: https://imgur.com/a/heGeCDb
2022-03-07T19:18:36 < karlp> two usb devices? what are you doing?
2022-03-07T19:18:49 < karlp> using ftdi parts as IO expanders?
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2022-03-07T19:19:13 < karlp> nice super pro usb mini-b there bro, what decade is it?
2022-03-07T19:19:24 < mawk> lol
2022-03-07T19:19:28 < qyx> lol
2022-03-07T19:19:32 < mawk> it's just ftdi stuff for uart
2022-03-07T19:19:35 < mawk> to add more uarts to the pi
2022-03-07T19:19:56 < mawk> mini-b is nice and sturdy
2022-03-07T19:20:01 < qyx> fuck mini-b
2022-03-07T19:20:05 < karlp> ^^ 
2022-03-07T19:20:08 < qyx> it is worse than micro-b
2022-03-07T19:20:12 < mawk> also it will never ever get disconnected after we connect it, so the connector doesn't matter
2022-03-07T19:20:13 < qyx> and wears out faster
2022-03-07T19:20:14 < mawk> it could even be soldered
2022-03-07T19:20:15 < karlp> also, really? _two_ usb ports to get _two_ uarts?!
2022-03-07T19:20:22 < karlp> dude, did you even try and part search?!
2022-03-07T19:20:29 < mawk> lol
2022-03-07T19:20:32 < mawk> I didn't design it
2022-03-07T19:20:36 < mawk> there are more things wrong
2022-03-07T19:20:52 < qyx> is it some super pro industrial switching matrix for test&measurement?
2022-03-07T19:20:53 < mawk> all these relays to switch signals for instance, I'm sure something with transistors could've been workable
2022-03-07T19:21:08 < mawk> it's a super pro industrial switching matrix that we did ourselves
2022-03-07T19:21:17 < mawk> no measurement, the relays just switch on and off various signals and power
2022-03-07T19:21:26 < qyx> yeah you will not make career with anything other than relays then
2022-03-07T19:21:30 < mawk> and the thing does jtag also, through the pi with openocd bitbanging
2022-03-07T19:21:43 < mawk> why
2022-03-07T19:21:46 < mawk> it's noisy
2022-03-07T19:21:49 < mawk> and pumps power
2022-03-07T19:22:05 < karlp> pi header doens't have usb on it does it? they went all in on 5V and i2c and spi and uart, and nothing useful?
2022-03-07T19:22:05 < qyx> because industry of the deutschland type doesn't approve anything else
2022-03-07T19:22:06 < mawk> I like solid state parts that smell like new millenium
2022-03-07T19:22:22 < karlp> that's why we see all these fucking dual right angle usb shit for connecting expansion boards righgt?
2022-03-07T19:22:30 < qyx> also, I would use spi-gpio expanders for relays
2022-03-07T19:22:46 < qyx> instead of doing usb-uart-mcu-relays
2022-03-07T19:22:56 < qyx> but hey, not being grumpy today
2022-03-07T19:23:30 < mawk> yeah no usb on the pi header karlp 
2022-03-07T19:23:59 < mawk> the relays aren't controlled by the uart
2022-03-07T19:24:03 < mawk> there's no mcu on that board
2022-03-07T19:24:06 < qyx> karlp: you are a silabs and other labs pro now, do they have CAN enabled MCUs?
2022-03-07T19:24:11 < mawk> all is controlled by the pi
2022-03-07T19:24:20 < mawk> karlp is not a stm32 pro anymore??
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2022-03-07T19:24:47 < karlp> qyx: you shoudl rememember frrom my stm32 days, I don't do shit with can :)
2022-03-07T19:24:52 < karlp> never even looked sorry.
2022-03-07T19:26:08 < Steffanx> CAN enabled mcus do not exist in 2022
2022-03-07T19:26:32 < mawk> do you like my test controller Steffanx 
2022-03-07T19:26:45 < mawk> do you recognize the great smartness in using USB-UART connected to usb ports of the pi?
2022-03-07T19:26:46 < qyx> k ordering esp32
2022-03-07T19:26:54 < mawk> don't do that qyx 
2022-03-07T19:27:08 < mawk> we don't want to lose you to the concurrents
2022-03-07T19:27:13 < mawk> look harder for a arm can mcu
2022-03-07T19:29:16 < qyx> 50pcs of ESP32-C3FN4 should be enough
2022-03-07T19:29:25 < qyx> for the price of 3 stm32
2022-03-07T19:30:09 < mawk> :(
2022-03-07T19:30:11 < mawk> don't do it
2022-03-07T19:30:22 < karlp> https://www.silabs.com/mcu/32-bit-microcontrollers/efm32-giant-gecko-gg11 has can apparently?
2022-03-07T19:30:29 < Steffanx> Yes, wonderful, but what karlp said, mawk
2022-03-07T19:31:30 < mawk> what Steffanx 
2022-03-07T19:31:43 < mawk> the ftdi stuff is a well known part, and the pi has unused usb ports
2022-03-07T19:31:50 < mawk> it's not unusual to connect stuff with usb internally
2022-03-07T19:32:02 < mawk> the cables are a bit long, I'm looking for shorter right-angle cables
2022-03-07T19:32:51 < Steffanx> Just use spi and a shift register 
2022-03-07T19:32:56 < mawk> why
2022-03-07T19:32:56 < Steffanx> Or i2c ioexpander
2022-03-07T19:33:02 < mawk> why ioexpander
2022-03-07T19:33:05 < mawk> I want literally uart
2022-03-07T19:33:13 < mawk> so I use a uart chip
2022-03-07T19:33:29 < mawk> and its interface is usb, which is a very respectable and fast interface
2022-03-07T19:33:41 < Steffanx> Oh you also use uart
2022-03-07T19:33:53 < mawk> the chips connected by usb are ftdi uart chips
2022-03-07T19:34:05 < karlp> whats on the other end of the uart again?
2022-03-07T19:34:10 < mawk> the board under test
2022-03-07T19:34:21 < mawk> that is connected through a ribbon cable or whatever cable
2022-03-07T19:34:21 < Steffanx> Assumed you use your ftdis as gpio
2022-03-07T19:34:24 < mawk> it's not in the picture
2022-03-07T19:35:08 < karlp> qyx: looks like giant gecko s1 is the only silabs part with can from a quick skim
2022-03-07T19:35:35 < karlp> as opposed to https://www.silabs.com/mcu/32-bit-microcontrollers/efm32-giant-gecko which is apparently series 0...
2022-03-07T19:37:24 < qyx> hm but nearly nothing stocked
2022-03-07T19:37:30 < qyx> ESP32-C3 it is then
2022-03-07T19:37:33 < qyx> 1€ and CAN
2022-03-07T19:37:43 < qyx> and riscv \o/
2022-03-07T19:38:56 < karlp> go for it!
2022-03-07T19:39:18  * karlp tries to remember if he got a c3 yet or not...
2022-03-07T19:39:52 < karlp> desk at the moment has MCUs from four different vendors on it.
2022-03-07T19:40:20 < karlp> two M3's, an M33, an M4 dualcore, and two different riscv parts.
2022-03-07T19:40:39 < qyx> chich riscv?
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2022-03-07T19:41:10 < karlp> a wch "v4a" and a gigadevices "bumblebee"
2022-03-07T19:41:28 < qyx> hm
2022-03-07T19:41:40 < karlp> very very early days with them yet :)
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--- Log opened ma maalis 07 20:25:16 2022
2022-03-07T20:25:16 -!- jpa- [jpa@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-07T20:25:16 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 78 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 78 normal]
2022-03-07T20:25:35 < englishman> go up in freq and double check availability
2022-03-07T20:25:36 -!- Irssi: Join to ##stm32 was synced in 29 secs
2022-03-07T20:26:32 < qyx> higher freqs are more expensive in 3225
2022-03-07T20:26:37 < qyx> 40 MHz specifically
2022-03-07T20:26:51 < qyx> 16 MHz in 3225 is super cheap
2022-03-07T20:33:46 < englishman> right
2022-03-07T20:36:16 < Steffanx> So how are the relays controlled mr mawk?
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2022-03-07T20:52:29 < mawk> with gpios Steffanx 
2022-03-07T20:52:38 < mawk> of the roastberrypi
2022-03-07T20:53:04 < mawk> like I type « raspi-gpio set 5 op pn dh » and CLIC there is power to the board under test
2022-03-07T20:54:36 < qyx> op huh oh
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2022-03-07T20:55:29 < Steffanx> oh ok mr mawk
2022-03-07T20:56:26 < mawk> yes qyx it's user-friendly syntax
2022-03-07T20:56:27 < qyx> found a F042
2022-03-07T20:56:34 < qyx> I found a F042
2022-03-07T20:56:37 < Steffanx> i have some F042s somewhere
2022-03-07T20:56:51 < qyx> how many Steffanx 
2022-03-07T20:56:56 < Steffanx> 3 or so :P
2022-03-07T20:57:07 < qyx> although I am not using them anymore
2022-03-07T20:57:30 < Steffanx> Need some samd21G18As? :P
2022-03-07T20:57:37 < qyx> the only thing I need them for are my sun blinds controllers
2022-03-07T20:58:00 < qyx> last two are missing, so I need to find one more F042
2022-03-07T20:58:01 < Steffanx> aliexpress.
2022-03-07T20:58:13 < Steffanx> buy new sunblind controllers
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2022-03-07T21:02:08 < Steffanx> Are you happy with this solution mawk?
2022-03-07T21:06:56 < mawk> what is sunblind controller
2022-03-07T21:07:42 < qyx> those window curtains, sunblinds
2022-03-07T21:08:04 < qyx> I have 5 controllers on a can bus for moving them up and down
2022-03-07T21:08:16 < qyx> one is missing on the kitchen
2022-03-07T21:08:32 < Steffanx> diy?
2022-03-07T21:08:43 < qyx> yeah, super pro
2022-03-07T21:08:48 < mawk> a
2022-03-07T21:08:53 < Steffanx> Now we, me, need nicks.
2022-03-07T21:08:56 < Steffanx> pics
2022-03-07T21:08:57 < Steffanx> damn
2022-03-07T21:09:01 < Steffanx> not sure how i wrote that
2022-03-07T21:09:02 < mawk> dicks?
2022-03-07T21:09:11 < mawk> pics thereof
2022-03-07T21:09:15 < mawk> great idea Steffanx 
2022-03-07T21:09:16 < Steffanx> no ty
2022-03-07T21:09:19 < mawk> :(
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2022-03-07T21:12:08 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xnWdU/Screenshot_2022-03-07_20-11-39.png
2022-03-07T21:12:12 < qyx> Steffanx: cannot find a photo right now
2022-03-07T21:12:37 < Steffanx> take on with your super pro camera?
2022-03-07T21:12:51 < qyx> only some relays + current transformers for feedback
2022-03-07T21:13:03 < qyx> I couldn't use SSRs because of possible lockups
2022-03-07T21:13:13 < Steffanx> You repurposed some existing hw?
2022-03-07T21:13:14 < qyx> the manufacturer explicitly says they cannot be controlled using SSRs
2022-03-07T21:13:52 < Steffanx> Your wife is happy with you wiring the house with a CANbus?
2022-03-07T21:14:07 < Steffanx> Some cant even get a wifi app on the ceiling.
2022-03-07T21:14:19 < Laurenceb> keeek "international legion" first photos released https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNQ85P_WUAE5s93?format=png&name=small
2022-03-07T21:14:22 < Laurenceb> autism quad
2022-03-07T21:14:37 < qyx> Steffanx: I have a rpi + touchscreen prepared for control
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2022-03-07T21:15:11 < qyx> and she knows those things, she is a telco/it/ee
2022-03-07T21:15:42 < Steffanx> Now i understand how you get your pcbs done so fast, you have her do it
2022-03-07T21:15:55 < qyx> lold
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2022-03-07T21:55:36 < Laurenceb> is c=~c valid in c for uint64_t c   ?
2022-03-07T21:56:09 < qyx> why shouldn't it be?
2022-03-07T21:56:34 < qyx> but I know nothing about programming so I may be wrong
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2022-03-07T22:02:08 < catphish> morning folks!
2022-03-07T22:02:51 < Laurenceb> hmm something is weird
2022-03-07T22:03:00 < Laurenceb> maybe elsewhere in muh code
2022-03-07T22:03:16 < catphish> today i did heating and cooling stuff: https://imgur.com/a/hWAiUI9
2022-03-07T22:04:26 < catphish> replace water heating matrix with electric heating element, replace huge radiator pipes with smaller ones
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2022-03-07T23:05:04 < Laurenceb> https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Fimageserver%2Fimage%2F%252Fmethode%252Ftimes%252Fprod%252Fweb%252Fbin%252F11ca4e48-9ba9-11ec-8194-a993851c15ba.jpg%3Fcrop%3D1447%252C790%252C69%252C3%26resize%3D1533&hash=88077eaaabfacada4035ed727c655268
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2022-03-07T23:19:04 < Laurenceb> keeek /pol/ at work
2022-03-07T23:19:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8418867,-1.4983667,3a,75y,217.74h,89.22t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOJJ0R0KXlrcLkC2YN_wsfqq4o4CsmLuJU-6A3-!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOJJ0R0KXlrcLkC2YN_wsfqq4o4CsmLuJU-6A3-%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya71.09617-ro-0-fo100!7i6080!8i3040
2022-03-07T23:22:15 < catphish> that job looks danger :)
2022-03-07T23:22:27 < Steffanx> ous
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--- Day changed ti maalis 08 2022
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2022-03-08T00:23:49 < karlp> qyx: what case does that blind controller fit into? those cutouts are really odd looking
2022-03-08T00:24:15 < karlp> 19:14 <Steffanx> Some cant even get a wifi app on the ceiling.
2022-03-08T00:24:17 < karlp> lol
2022-03-08T00:24:19 < karlp> tell me about it.
2022-03-08T00:24:40 < Steffanx> I was referring to you \actually :D
2022-03-08T00:24:46 < Steffanx> -\
2022-03-08T00:25:00 < karlp> won't entertain the idea of the hideous thing on the ceiling, then 3 months later points at a smoke detector and asks, "what's that and how long has it been there?!" "since a week after we moved in..."
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2022-03-08T01:04:32 < catphish> i'm a little confused about something, hoping someone can fill me in. i have some vehicle gauges with CAN connection, the documentation claims they support "U.S.A GMC CAN (J1979) protocol" - i'm a little confused about this, i see it has a request-response mechanism when used over CAN, is that likely to be what the gauges are using? i'd have expected a broadcast!
2022-03-08T01:06:23 < catphish> these fellas: https://speedhut.com/categories/gauge-application/freedom-can-bus-for-gm.html
2022-03-08T01:13:41 < fenugrec> j1979 usually means you "start a diagnostic session" before you start querying stuff
2022-03-08T01:14:06 < fenugrec> some parameters may not be broadcast all the time in normal operations
2022-03-08T01:14:18 < fenugrec> j1979 == OBD2
2022-03-08T01:15:45 < catphish> so, what i fan find is there is no "broadcast" and these gauges need to actively request the data
2022-03-08T01:16:31 < catphish> *can find
2022-03-08T01:20:33 < catphish> this is a hassle for me, i'd assumed the gauges would just accept raw broadcast data
2022-03-08T01:21:03 < catphish> but instead i'm going to have to add another MCU to cache the broadcasts and provide an OBD2 interface, eww
2022-03-08T01:21:30 < fenugrec> unless you can reprogram the gauges
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2022-03-08T01:36:48 < catphish> *nod*
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2022-03-08T03:19:14 < catphish> quiet in here today!
2022-03-08T03:23:02 < fenugrec> was going to work on some stm stuff today, but I'm hoping future me will be more motivated
2022-03-08T03:35:40 < catphish> i hang out here but i'm a fraud, i haven't used an stm for about a year
2022-03-08T03:36:04 < catphish> i do car thing and RP2040 instead :)
2022-03-08T03:37:05 < catphish> i hope i'm almost done designing this thing https://imgur.com/a/2X99HWf - 3 days of learning freecad, but i think it's finally workable
2022-03-08T03:40:36 < catphish> 10 consecutive hours on my feet in the workshop today, this probably isn't a big deal, but my body isn't used to it :)
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2022-03-08T04:07:32 < machinehum> catphish: My RPI2040 came in
2022-03-08T04:08:59 < machinehum> Do you have to hold the boot and plug in EVERY FLASH?
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2022-03-08T05:52:12 < machinehum> https://github.com/raspberrypi/openocd/issues/58
2022-03-08T05:52:14 < machinehum> Booo
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2022-03-08T09:14:32 < Steffanx> Lol look who helped you machinehum 
2022-03-08T09:14:41 < Steffanx> Hes EVERYWHERE
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2022-03-08T11:11:57 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, i'm just here clicking on all links on lines that don't start with LaurenceB
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2022-03-08T11:22:54 < Ecco> Hi :)
2022-03-08T11:23:04 < Ecco> Is this a compiler bug?
2022-03-08T11:23:04 < Ecco> https://godbolt.org/z/bs1nGfPfn
2022-03-08T11:23:19 < Ecco> I mean, it sure looks like one, but it's also so simple that I can't believe it is
2022-03-08T11:26:07 < jpa-> Ecco: no, it is undefined behavior in C
2022-03-08T11:26:47 < jpa-> "An iteration statement whose controlling expression is not a constant expression,156) that performs no input/output operations, does not access volatile objects, and performs no synchronization or atomic operations in its body, controlling expression, or (in the case of a for statement) its expression-3, may be assumed by the implementation to terminate.157)"
2022-03-08T11:27:12 < jpa-> i guess more accurately, implementation defined - the implementation may assume that such loop must terminate
2022-03-08T11:29:02 < Ecco> damn you're good
2022-03-08T11:36:19 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFNEtdUFVEAQrM1c.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-03-08T11:41:34 < qyx> huh but this looks like a perfectly valid code
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2022-03-08T11:42:32 < qyx> if you add asm("nop"); inside it does what is expected
2022-03-08T11:43:10 < qyx> in what category does nop fall?
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2022-03-08T11:44:43 < jpa-> sometimes compilers optimize asm("nop"); away too, but IIRC GCC is trying to avoid it because it annoys people
2022-03-08T11:45:25 < jpa-> if (halt) { while (1); } is valid and well-defined in C11 and later
2022-03-08T11:45:36 < jpa-> while (halt); is not
2022-03-08T11:47:04 < qyx> interesting, i am curious what was the motivation for it
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2022-03-08T12:00:39 < Steffanx> It seems gcc 11.2 with -Os and C (instead of C++) actually compiles it into that jpa- 
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2022-03-08T12:02:46 < jpa-> qyx: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1528.htm  provides some background on the rationale
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2022-03-08T12:27:47 < catphish> machinehum: you can hold boot and flash the reset line, for some weird reason, !reset is called "run"
2022-03-08T12:29:00 < catphish> machinehum: i don't know about using the debug lines, i always flash with USB
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2022-03-08T12:42:03 < Laurenceb> with the Ukrainian men dead, soon it will be time to repopulate the country...
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2022-03-08T15:39:53 < fenugrec> Heh, using AI to generate new paint colors; https://www.aiweirdness.com/new-ai-paint-colors/ most of these make about as much sense as actual color names
2022-03-08T15:41:36 < Ecco> Dumb question: apparently there is no spread-spectrum on STM32 H7
2022-03-08T15:42:29 < Ecco> I'm using an SPI Flash, and I have emission peaks at harmonics of my SPI memory
2022-03-08T15:42:32 < Ecco> How can I avoid this?
2022-03-08T15:48:41 < qyx> series termination resistors?
2022-03-08T15:49:08 < qyx> shorter traces
2022-03-08T15:49:24 < qyx> slope control, how did you set your GPIO?
2022-03-08T15:49:30 < qyx> there is that "speed" parameter
2022-03-08T15:49:39 < qyx> maybe try lowering it a bit
2022-03-08T15:50:39 < Ecco> Oh, interesting
2022-03-08T15:50:51 < Ecco> My traces are *super* short
2022-03-08T15:50:59 < Ecco> the SPI Flash is pretty much right next to the STM32
2022-03-08T15:52:54 < qyx> #define GPIO_OSPEED_2MHZ		0x0
2022-03-08T15:52:54 < qyx> #define GPIO_OSPEED_25MHZ		0x1
2022-03-08T15:52:54 < qyx> #define GPIO_OSPEED_50MHZ		0x2
2022-03-08T15:52:54 < qyx> #define GPIO_OSPEED_100MHZ		0x3
2022-03-08T15:53:10 < qyx> (those are libopencm3 defs)
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2022-03-08T16:01:53 < Ecco> ok :)
2022-03-08T16:02:15 < Ecco> Well, but then, wouldn't I need to use the 100MHz one all the time anyway?
2022-03-08T16:02:27 < Ecco> (The SPI Flash runs at 104 MHz)
2022-03-08T16:04:19 < qyx> are you executing code from it?
2022-03-08T16:04:39 < Ecco> Yes
2022-03-08T16:04:53 < qyx> uhm then idk
2022-03-08T16:05:09 < Ecco> What if I wasn't?
2022-03-08T16:05:10 < qyx> unfortunate
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2022-03-08T16:05:26 < qyx> if you weren't, you can run it at eg. 10 MHz :P
2022-03-08T16:05:40 < zyp> you still can :p
2022-03-08T16:06:37 < qyx> but you can try the 50 MHz setting, maybe it will be okish and the emmissions will be lower
2022-03-08T16:09:36 < Ecco> Actually, I read the datasheet from my part
2022-03-08T16:09:41 < Ecco> and the rule are a bit more complex
2022-03-08T16:09:43 < Ecco> rules
2022-03-08T16:09:55 < Ecco> There are 4 "speed modes"
2022-03-08T16:10:25 < Ecco> Each one does indeed correspond to a max frequency, BUT this frequency also depends on the Vdd voltage and the line capacitance
2022-03-08T16:10:35 < Ecco> Dumb question: how do I measure this line capacitance?
2022-03-08T16:11:24 < Ecco> so for example, mode 0 (slowest) can be up to 15 MHz if you have a low Vdd and a high line capacitance
2022-03-08T16:11:59 < Ecco> or up to 110 MHz if you have a high Vdd (more than 2.7V) and a low load capacitance (10 pF)
2022-03-08T16:12:33 < qyx> set it to the slowest and try if it works
2022-03-08T16:12:39 < qyx> scope the signal
2022-03-08T16:12:56 < qyx> and make an educated guess, do you like the shape?
2022-03-08T16:13:08 < qyx> if yes, you are done, if too smooth, use a higher setting
2022-03-08T16:13:11 < qyx> rinse and repeat
2022-03-08T16:14:44 < Ecco> Makes perfect sense
2022-03-08T16:15:25 < Ecco> How would I technically measure the line capacitance though?
2022-03-08T16:17:21 < qyx> hm never did that, BrainDamage should know
2022-03-08T16:17:45 < qyx> you could probably compute it
2022-03-08T16:18:35 < qyx> https://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~amoss/java/microstrip.htm
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2022-03-08T16:23:30 < kakium69> hello ##warroom32
2022-03-08T16:26:32 < catphish> morning kakium69
2022-03-08T16:26:40 < kakium69> morgon
2022-03-08T16:26:43 < catphish> i made much progress yesterday!
2022-03-08T16:26:56 < catphish> and i got to play with a lathe :)
2022-03-08T16:27:01 < kakium69> I have made none
2022-03-08T16:27:06 < kakium69> just warroom247
2022-03-08T16:27:34 < kakium69> maybe back to coding now
2022-03-08T16:27:39 < kakium69> today
2022-03-08T16:27:46 < catphish> probably for the best
2022-03-08T16:27:52 < catphish> why warroom?
2022-03-08T16:28:48 < kakium69> memes are too good
2022-03-08T16:28:55 < catphish> i made an electric heater, and some new inlets for my radiatorhttps://imgur.com/a/hWAiUI9 and think i finally finalized my battery box design (subject to tidying and checking every measurement) https://imgur.com/a/2X99HWf
2022-03-08T16:30:14 < catphish> i stripped down the rest of my OWM battery pack and have a nice set of relays and fuses ready https://i.imgur.com/3BvQINe.jpg
2022-03-08T16:30:35 < kakium69> so many relays
2022-03-08T16:30:41 < kakium69> for heatings and stuff?
2022-03-08T16:31:09 < catphish> well, that's just what came out of the OEM battery box, i doubt i'll use it all
2022-03-08T16:32:21 < kakium69> why did OEM box have ton of relays?
2022-03-08T16:32:48 < kakium69> parallel configuration?
2022-03-08T16:33:02 < qyx> are you using those amphenol super high amp renewable DC 1-pin connectors?
2022-03-08T16:33:02 < kakium69> instead of one big relay?
2022-03-08T16:33:15 < catphish> it had 3 strings of cells in parallel, each string had its own fuse, pos and neg relay, precharge relay, and currnt sensor
2022-03-08T16:33:33 < catphish> then i think it had 2 inverters, so 2 large relays for each
2022-03-08T16:33:55 < catphish> or maybe one pair of those is for fast charging
2022-03-08T16:33:58 < qyx> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSO3MfQbLTBQ4sI-dDEmy3jiphhSLuzYvRV9Q&usqp=CAU
2022-03-08T16:34:07 < qyx> amp e-mobility battery connector
2022-03-08T16:34:20 < catphish> qyx: yes
2022-03-08T16:34:31 < qyx> do you have them already?
2022-03-08T16:34:34 < qyx> are they good?
2022-03-08T16:34:34 < catphish> qyx: no
2022-03-08T16:34:45 < catphish> i haven't bought them yet, so no idea
2022-03-08T16:37:52 < catphish> i'm not 100% about using that connector yet, the current rating is a a bit close for comfort
2022-03-08T16:38:22 < catphish> but it looks really nice to use
2022-03-08T16:41:31 < catphish> i will use 2 of the larger relays for the positive and negative to the main inverter, will have plenty left over for the heater, DC-DC converter, and things i might have forgotten
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2022-03-08T17:15:23 < bitmask> hi!!!
2022-03-08T17:18:57 < bitmask> fine
2022-03-08T17:18:59 < bitmask> be that way
2022-03-08T17:29:09 < bitmask> nema 8 steppers are so adorable
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2022-03-08T18:00:55 < Steffanx> Helloooo rob235
2022-03-08T18:03:01 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-08T18:03:59 < bitmask> thats more like it
2022-03-08T18:04:17 < bitmask> whats up Steffanx 
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2022-03-08T18:32:12 < machinehum> Steffanx: Who? I don't know either of those people
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2022-03-08T18:47:16 < catphish_> new office nearly finished, desk arrived today :) https://i.imgur.com/AJi5u2a.jpg
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2022-03-08T18:54:15 < sauce> what network appliance is that?
2022-03-08T18:54:53 < mawk> a switchyswitch
2022-03-08T18:55:05 < mawk> with sfp ports
2022-03-08T18:55:13 < mawk> maybe a router though
2022-03-08T18:55:24 < mawk> we will never know
2022-03-08T18:55:47 < qyx> I like the garden
2022-03-08T19:03:19 < Steffanx> machinehum:  it's the nick he used before becoming bitmask . 
2022-03-08T19:03:41 < bitmask> ;)
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2022-03-08T19:04:14 < machinehum> I see
2022-03-08T19:04:20 < machinehum> Thanks for your help I got it working
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2022-03-08T19:20:26 < catphish_> sauce, mawk, it's a SRX300
2022-03-08T19:20:49 < Steffanx> Or were you referring to your openocd question machinehum  
2022-03-08T19:21:05 < Steffanx> Then one of the persons is  j p a - . You know him ;)
2022-03-08T19:21:11 < catphish_> technically it's a "firewall", but i use it as a home router+switch
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2022-03-08T19:34:46 < mawk> how do you say "I'm almost there" in dutch Steffanx 
2022-03-08T19:34:53 < mawk> I'm late to dutch class
2022-03-08T19:39:59 < BrainDamage> in bed or what?
2022-03-08T19:42:21 < qyx> hjalp pythoners
2022-03-08T19:42:47 < qyx> I am putting into a queue.Queue, but from another thread, I cannot get anything, qsize is always 0
2022-03-08T19:42:50 < qyx> what the hell
2022-03-08T19:43:09 < qyx> qsize after the put() is increasing
2022-03-08T19:43:19 < zyp> sounds like you've got two different queues
2022-03-08T19:43:29 < qyx> <queue.Queue object at 0xb6a55028>
2022-03-08T19:43:33 < qyx> they are the same objects
2022-03-08T19:43:40 < qyx> I though the same
2022-03-08T19:44:13 < zyp> and you're certain you've got threads and haven't just forked the whole process?
2022-03-08T19:44:49 < qyx> of course I did
2022-03-08T19:44:55 < qyx> fuck
2022-03-08T19:45:12 < qyx> those subtle details
2022-03-08T19:45:18 < Steffanx> Ik ben er bijna, mawk 
2022-03-08T19:45:37 < Steffanx> 11 minutes late
2022-03-08T19:47:42 < zyp> catphish_, nice view to the trashcan
2022-03-08T19:49:09 < qyx> zyp: thanks
2022-03-08T19:49:13 < qyx> works :>
2022-03-08T19:49:55 < zyp> :)
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2022-03-08T20:15:00 < catphish_> zyp: lol i have no idea why that's dumped there :)
2022-03-08T20:15:28 < catphish_> zyp: that's a bin for garden waste, it gets composted, i guess my wife was gardeing and abandoned it outside my office window :)
2022-03-08T20:31:50 < zyp> I built a stand for my trashcans the other day, and then I got some leftover wood so I built a table for the kid as well: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iVPHD.jpg
2022-03-08T20:32:53 < BrainDamage> weird choice for the garden, here people try to maximize the grass over asphalt area
2022-03-08T20:32:54 < zyp> and yeah, the motivation for building the stand was because I needed somewhere to mount the new EV charger :p
2022-03-08T20:33:07 < jpa-> nice table
2022-03-08T20:33:16 < jpa-> around here people usually have a roof over their trash cans
2022-03-08T20:33:28 < zyp> BrainDamage, nah, fuck that, I specificly opted for no grass in my garden
2022-03-08T20:34:16 < jpa-> also, your kid looks big now - is time going as fast in norway as it does here?
2022-03-08T20:34:57 < zyp> jpa-, roof seems pretty pointless to me, but I added hooks to keep the cans from falling over during strong winds
2022-03-08T20:35:17 < jpa-> i guess not as much snowfall there :)
2022-03-08T20:35:57 < zyp> eh, it'd blow in under the roof anyway
2022-03-08T20:36:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FYl2Y.jpg
2022-03-08T20:37:11 < jpa-> https://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload/13-3-5308545  finland is like this now :)
2022-03-08T20:37:18 < zyp> already had one windy day after I assembled this where several neighbors' cans fell over, so I'm pretty happy about that feature
2022-03-08T20:37:31 < zyp> fun
2022-03-08T20:37:53 < zyp> snow doesn't tend to stick around for long here
2022-03-08T20:38:27 < qyx> huh too much colors, bio, other, plastics, paper, glass?
2022-03-08T20:38:52 < zyp> yeah, you even got the order right
2022-03-08T20:38:59 < qyx> same as here
2022-03-08T20:39:05 < qyx> sometimes we aven have red for metals
2022-03-08T20:39:14 < qyx> but usually those are collected with plastics
2022-03-08T20:39:16 < zyp> ah, glass/metals are combined here
2022-03-08T20:39:32 < jpa-> here we have bio, plastics, paper, cardboard, metal, glass, other/mixed
2022-03-08T20:41:45 < zyp> jpa-, and yeah, time flies
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2022-03-08T20:43:25 < josuah> TIL status registers of peripherals
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2022-03-08T20:44:09 < josuah> I must read'em when I got a bug, like "uint32_t volatile reg = [...]->STATUS;" and inspect the complete value of `reg`
2022-03-08T20:45:06 < jpa-> you can also just inspect them directly from debugger
2022-03-08T20:45:07 < josuah> then be surprised: "oh, an error flag... I happen to not be able to get it working, what a coincidence!"
2022-03-08T20:45:30 < josuah> jpa-: oh? such as SWD+GDB lets me read any region of memory?
2022-03-08T20:45:35 < jpa-> yes
2022-03-08T20:45:38 < josuah> yay! :D
2022-03-08T20:45:43 < josuah> I'll look that up.
2022-03-08T20:45:57 < jpa-> and you can also write to them, to see if some config changes would help
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2022-03-08T20:46:12 < jpa-> stuff like     p SPI1->CR  = 0x1234    or p /x SPI1->SR
2022-03-08T20:46:16 < josuah> directly touching memory with figners! Muahahaha
2022-03-08T20:46:42 < josuah> hey! is that not cheating if you can even the structure names?
2022-03-08T20:46:49 < josuah> there got to be a bit of challenge left
2022-03-08T20:47:06 < josuah> ok, agreed, there is plenty of challenge left for solving the actual problem
2022-03-08T20:48:24 < jpa-> fortunately it does not decode the status register to bit names, you need some external program for that
2022-03-08T20:51:03 < Laurenceb> maybe zombie hitler could kill putler
2022-03-08T20:52:18 < jpa-> why not you?
2022-03-08T21:01:19 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/CityBureaucrat/status/1499796107076980750#m
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2022-03-08T21:16:19 < steve__> discord and spotify down... anything else down?
2022-03-08T21:20:03 < Laurenceb> >things that matter
2022-03-08T21:20:22 < steve__> (insert mom joke)
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2022-03-08T21:43:23 < kakium69> 2.042eur gas filled the tank whole way
2022-03-08T21:43:34 < qyx> yay python recursive generators
2022-03-08T21:43:50 < Steffanx> 2.4 here kakium69
2022-03-08T21:43:59 < kakium69> noice
2022-03-08T21:44:06 < zyp> enjoy
2022-03-08T21:44:09 < Steffanx> 2 is the diesel price.
2022-03-08T21:44:24 < qyx> zyp: wait a bit, electricity will go up too
2022-03-08T21:44:34 < specing> 1.55 eur gasoline & 1.6+ diesel here
2022-03-08T21:44:54 < qyx> idk now but the last week it was 1.499 for diesel
2022-03-08T21:44:56 < zyp> qyx, electricity has been up for months already
2022-03-08T21:45:04 < qyx> zyp: how much for kWh?
2022-03-08T21:45:06 < kakium69> specing: nice.. that's liek 2014 prices
2022-03-08T21:45:46 < Steffanx> its like 60c/kwh here
2022-03-08T21:46:04 < specing> kakium69: yep, that were the prices in 2014
2022-03-08T21:46:17 < kakium69> Steffanx: wtf
2022-03-08T21:46:21 < qyx> Steffanx: wtf
2022-03-08T21:46:34 < zyp> qyx, so far december was the most expensive, at 2.16 NOK/kWh
2022-03-08T21:46:49 < Steffanx> so 22 euro cent
2022-03-08T21:46:59 < qyx> not that much, quite ok
2022-03-08T21:47:15 < qyx> around 0.15€ here now
2022-03-08T21:47:15 < zyp> but there's some subsides as well so in reality it's cheaper
2022-03-08T21:47:43 < kakium69> is it too late to start new energy startups?
2022-03-08T21:47:55 < Steffanx> Yeah, it used to be around 22 here too, in 2020. Now with the crazy natural gas prices its electricity is crazy expensive
2022-03-08T21:48:06 < Steffanx> -its
2022-03-08T21:48:48 < zyp> IIRC the state will cover 80% of the electricity cost above 0.875 NOK/kWh now
2022-03-08T21:48:50 < qyx> better blow into your turbines
2022-03-08T21:49:48 < Steffanx> Yeah
2022-03-08T21:49:50 < specing> are those electricity figures before or after tax?
2022-03-08T21:49:56 < Steffanx> here, after.
2022-03-08T21:49:58 < zyp> electricity here is mainly hydroelectric so gas prices doesn't matter directly, it's just export demand that's driving the price up
2022-03-08T21:49:59 < specing> and is static fee included or not?
2022-03-08T21:50:01 < zyp> after tax
2022-03-08T21:50:07 < Steffanx> and the tax and fee included.
2022-03-08T21:50:13 < Steffanx> so 60c.
2022-03-08T21:50:16 < specing> after tax it's 0.14 or 0.17 / kWh
2022-03-08T21:50:19 < zyp> static fee?
2022-03-08T21:50:52 < qyx> after
2022-03-08T21:50:58 < zyp> my numbers are energy cost only, I also pay to have it delivered :p
2022-03-08T21:51:33 < qyx> oh I am always talking the end numbers
2022-03-08T21:51:45 < qyx> with all static and delivery costs minus subsidy
2022-03-08T21:52:05 < zyp> energy and delivery are separate bills here
2022-03-08T21:52:08 < qyx> fuck costs without delivery, what are those for
2022-03-08T21:52:12 < Steffanx> subsidy ?!
2022-03-08T21:52:24 < zyp> yeah
2022-03-08T21:52:38 < karlp> I understand why they're separate, but if you're talking about retail prices for comparison, you'd better include it...
2022-03-08T21:52:40 < specing> zyp: static fee = the right to be plugged into the grid, billed per kW here
2022-03-08T21:52:54 < zyp> per kW or per kWh?
2022-03-08T21:52:55 < qyx> we have static fee per A of the main breaker
2022-03-08T21:52:57 < specing> zyp: kW
2022-03-08T21:52:59 < karlp> per peak kW? ie, per max amp incoming?
2022-03-08T21:53:02 < qyx> so per kW
2022-03-08T21:53:05 < specing> karlp: yeah
2022-03-08T21:53:19 < karlp> here static fee is per day, then usage is per kWh.
2022-03-08T21:53:44 < karlp> bigger A hookup just means you paid teh electrician more at setup time...
2022-03-08T21:54:41 < zyp> here I get one bill for energy that's a monthly fee plus usage per kWh, and then I get another bill for delivery that's also a monthly fee plus usage per kWh
2022-03-08T21:55:34 < zyp> the latter comes from whoever owns the grid where I live, but I get to choose who I buy the energy from
2022-03-08T21:56:15 < zyp> and the grid rates are pretty much fixed and only updated yearly anyway, so I tend to not care about them
2022-03-08T21:56:21 < sauce> that sounds suspiciously sensible
2022-03-08T21:56:53 < zyp> it's kinda silly to be honest
2022-03-08T21:57:18 < qyx> same here
2022-03-08T21:57:18 < zyp> it's the same power I'm buying anyway, only difference is the route the money is funneled
2022-03-08T21:57:35 < qyx> it is silly because there is only one grid owner :P
2022-03-08T21:57:44 < qyx> but they probably needed to implement some EU policy
2022-03-08T21:58:03 < zyp> only one for the whole country
2022-03-08T21:58:04 < zyp> ?
2022-03-08T21:58:34 < karlp> it was an eu directive yes, unbundling distributioin from retail, it makes sense, but the end result for retail is confusing two bills.
2022-03-08T21:59:08 < zyp> we've got a bunch of grid owners with varying rates, but I don't get to choose apart from choosing where I want to live
2022-03-08T21:59:09 < karlp> it was _particualrly_ related to countries that were doing the "national" grid, and defacto monopoly retail.
2022-03-08T21:59:39 < qyx> zyp: yes, but they split it into west-distributon, east-distribution and the middle-distribution
2022-03-08T21:59:39 < karlp> the grid/distrib rates here are government set,
2022-03-08T21:59:44 < qyx> zyp: all are state-owned
2022-03-08T21:59:48 < kakium69> https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statement-of-the-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-poland-in-connection-with-the-statement-by-the-us-secretary-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine
2022-03-08T22:00:04 < sauce> there is some shit unfolding here with solar subsidies which is bringing the economics and regulatory frameworks and utility monopoly all into contention
2022-03-08T22:00:05 < kakium69> based Poland!
2022-03-08T22:00:29 < karlp> zyp: regardless, pretendign your energy cost is _only_ the final retail bill price is disingenuous :)
2022-03-08T22:00:43 < zyp> yeah, I'm digging up the other invoice
2022-03-08T22:01:50 < qyx> TIL disingenuous
2022-03-08T22:03:49 < zyp> okay, grid owner haven't invoiced me for feb yet, so here's january numbers: 2097 kWh, 3774 NOK for energy, 874 NOK for grid and 1481 NOK in subsides, for a grand total of 1.51 NOK/kWh
2022-03-08T22:05:29 < zyp> december was 2044 kWh, 4453 NOK for energy, 1058 NOK for grid and 447 NOK in subsides, for a grand total of 2.48 NOK/kWh
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2022-03-08T22:17:12 < zyp> but yeah, with gas prices >20 NOK/l, EVs are still cheaper by a good margin
2022-03-08T22:21:35 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFNTJOk-WUAUuyTQ.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-03-08T22:23:19 < BrainDamage> here the static cost is proportional to the power you're alloted 
2022-03-08T22:23:27 < BrainDamage> and it's quite small compared to the other countries
2022-03-08T22:24:06 < zyp> here too
2022-03-08T22:24:51 < zyp> they're planning to switch to a model where it'll be based not on the breaker size, but on peak hourly consumption per month
2022-03-08T22:25:24 < zyp> originally from the beginning of this year, but postponed
2022-03-08T22:26:53 < karlp> fucking git update decided to just break shit
2022-03-08T22:27:01 < karlp> thanks.  says there's a default, doesn't actually do it.
2022-03-08T22:27:28 < zyp> with my old consumption pattern, I would have ended up at the 5-10kW rate every month, which is pretty much the same as I pay today
2022-03-08T22:27:44 < zyp> but now I just put up a three phase EV charger :p
2022-03-08T22:28:22 < karlp> zyp: did they not finish rolling out the meteres that depends on? :)
2022-03-08T22:28:51 < zyp> that should have been finished years ago
2022-03-08T22:29:07 < karlp> they're doing their second full roll of meters here.  someone basically absconded with a pile of money as far as I can tell, we put in "smart meters" less than 10 years ago, that as far as I can tell are simply digital readout.
2022-03-08T22:29:13 < BrainDamage> here's more than a decade, if not two that there's smart meters
2022-03-08T22:29:45 < karlp> so they're going round again with actually useful meters that do AMI properly, and have a "HAN" port and and can report peak power stuff properly.
2022-03-08T22:30:11 < zyp> right, yeah
2022-03-08T22:30:13 < BrainDamage> they have remote reading, programmable setpoint, but the setpoint has to be programmed with a irda
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2022-03-08T22:31:20 < zyp> when I worked as an electrician 15 years ago, we were installing digital meters with remote readout and whatever, but they still got replaced with the shit that does hourly reporting
2022-03-08T22:31:59 < zyp> okay, my peak hourly consumption so far in march was 14.5 kW
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2022-03-08T22:34:16 < zyp> when they decide to introduce the planned new pricing, I'm gonna limit the charger power so that total hourly average stays just below 10kW
2022-03-08T22:36:08 < zyp> or rather, it's a feature I expect it'll have by the time it'll be needed
2022-03-08T22:36:49 < zyp> charger is already able to tie into the HAN stuff to avoid overloading the mains breaker
2022-03-08T22:37:13 < zyp> which is why I decided to install a 3x32A charger circuit on a 3x40A mains :p
2022-03-08T22:38:15 < specing> zyp: what tech do those meters use for remote readout?
2022-03-08T22:38:18 < BrainDamage> here the standard home supply limit is at 3.5kW
2022-03-08T22:39:17 < zyp> BrainDamage, sounds like you don't live in a cold country where the primary heating source is electric :)
2022-03-08T22:39:50 < BrainDamage> primary heating here used to be gasoline, then we switched to natural gas
2022-03-08T22:40:45 < BrainDamage> it gets to -5 in the winter, so nothing absurd
2022-03-08T22:40:54 < fenugrec> gasoline 1?
2022-03-08T22:41:00 < fenugrec> *!
2022-03-08T22:41:13 < fenugrec> sounds sketchy
2022-03-08T22:41:37 < BrainDamage> why, you could smell the shit hundreds of m away when there was a refuel
2022-03-08T22:49:47 < kakium69> gasoline primary heating wtf
2022-03-08T22:50:28 < BrainDamage> some places even used coal
2022-03-08T22:51:03 < kakium69> I have never heard about using gasoline for heating
2022-03-08T22:51:11 < qyx> me neither
2022-03-08T22:51:16 < qyx> coal was very common though
2022-03-08T22:51:27 < qyx> also, 3.5 kW home limit?
2022-03-08T22:51:47 < zyp> specing, I think it varies
2022-03-08T22:51:48 < qyx> standard home here is 3x25 A, standard flat 1x25 A or 1x32 A
2022-03-08T22:51:59 < qyx> and you are limited only by the main breaker
2022-03-08T22:53:33 < karlp> BrainDamage: huh, I know lots of places still use kerosene for heating, but actual gasoline? like what you run your car on? or are we running a terminology problem here?
2022-03-08T22:54:07 < BrainDamage> oh, sorry, the names here are used interchangably
2022-03-08T22:54:11 < karlp> ok :)
2022-03-08T22:54:15 < BrainDamage> no, not the stuff your car runs on
2022-03-08T22:54:22 < karlp> didn't reallllly sound like what you would be using for heating :)
2022-03-08T22:54:35 < fenugrec> ah, makes sense. heating with 87 octane doesn't sound like a good plan !
2022-03-08T22:54:53 < BrainDamage> yeah, you use the bottom-of-the barrel of the distilling column to heat
2022-03-08T22:55:25 < karlp> turkey was full of roof mounted gravity feed kerosene tanks for heating.
2022-03-08T22:55:42 < BrainDamage> here they tend to be buried
2022-03-08T22:55:44 < karlp> I don't rememember them so visibly in italy, but might not have been looking int he right places
2022-03-08T22:55:59 < karlp> well, then yu need to _pump_!
2022-03-08T22:56:08 < karlp> up side, accidents don't result in a flammable house...
2022-03-08T22:57:28 < BrainDamage> gas stovetops are super common, and every now and then a house blows up
2022-03-08T22:59:20 < karlp> do you have municpal/piped gas?
2022-03-08T22:59:24 < karlp> or tanks in every house?
2022-03-08T23:00:38 < qyx> with those prices for heating it may as well be feasible to drill a 1000m borehole :S
2022-03-08T23:01:20 < BrainDamage> piped gas in most of the places, altough not as pervasive 20 years ago, eg at my grandmother's place they used to use tanks
2022-03-08T23:01:36 < BrainDamage> 50L for cooking and a giant ones for heating
2022-03-08T23:01:52 < BrainDamage> like 3x2m giant
2022-03-08T23:02:43 < zyp> specing, my meter is a kamstrup omnipower, which supports a bunch of different communication modules, but I believe it uses what they simply call «RF mesh»
2022-03-08T23:04:19 < zyp> probably some sort of gateway on the substation for the neighborhood to collect and relay the information
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2022-03-08T23:10:57 < specing> zyp: so mesh-net among meters and they find a route to substation?
2022-03-08T23:11:28 < zyp> apparently, yeah
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2022-03-08T23:55:41 < catphish_> i almost feel like i'm getting good at freecad :) https://imgur.com/a/1C3Yxki
2022-03-08T23:58:42 < BrainDamage> not enough sma
--- Day changed ke maalis 09 2022
2022-03-09T00:01:28 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/a3KDZyo :P
2022-03-09T00:01:38 < bitmask> z probe dock...
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2022-03-09T00:04:40 < sauce> id dock my probe there
2022-03-09T00:04:47 < sauce> if you know what i mean
2022-03-09T00:05:17 < bitmask> ha
2022-03-09T00:05:37 < bitmask> wtf am i doing
2022-03-09T00:05:50 < bitmask> time to waste some more time with useless projects
2022-03-09T00:06:00 < bitmask> gonna revisit the cloud chamber
2022-03-09T00:06:21 < zyp> good luck
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2022-03-09T00:06:37 < bitmask> i got a second closed loop water cooler, i dont think i can fail this time :/
2022-03-09T00:06:40 < bitmask> famous last words
2022-03-09T00:07:42 < bitmask> also switched from a 2mm copper plate to a 0.8mm (both 100x100) so much less copper to cool
2022-03-09T00:07:51 < bitmask> probably coulda just done that
2022-03-09T00:08:49 < catphish_> bitmask: that looks nice, though i have no idea what it is
2022-03-09T00:09:45 < mawk> PaulFertser: what is bcm2835gpio_speed_coeffs exactly?
2022-03-09T00:09:52 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-09T00:10:03 < mawk> I found it to be approximately 162.4477777777778 * clock speed
2022-03-09T00:10:04 < mawk> but not sure
2022-03-09T00:10:23 < bitmask> catphish_ a way to pick up a magnetic 3d printer z probe (just a micro switch) here is an example: https://github.com/jaysuk/SlideSwipe/blob/master/Images/putBack.gif
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2022-03-09T00:11:35 < bitmask> you need to slide it off since its connected by strong magnets and without connecting it to my 3d printer heat bed i can only move in the x axis with the print head so theres no way to slide it off with the limited room i have. so this not only hides the dock when not in use but gives me a motion to slide the magnets off
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2022-03-09T00:12:30 < catphish_> bitmask: that looks awesomely overengineered :)
2022-03-09T00:13:23 < bitmask> i like the animated gif one i showed you a lot better than mine but with a bed flinger (Y axis moves the whole bed instead of the bed just moving up and down in Z) i dont have many options
2022-03-09T00:14:57 < BrainDamage> bitmask: a paint bucket worth of water has approx the same thermal resistance of a cpu heatsink
2022-03-09T00:15:06 < BrainDamage> then a 5$ aquarium pump will work
2022-03-09T00:16:28 < bitmask> after adding up all the heat block/tubing/connectors/pump etc the closed loop cooler was much more attractive due to its size and having everything contained. i didnt realize id need a second one 
2022-03-09T00:17:00 < bitmask> a paint bucket is big
2022-03-09T00:17:53 < bitmask> i dunno if you saw my first try
2022-03-09T00:17:54 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/Q99KRKk
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2022-03-09T00:24:06 < upgrdman> helloworld with visual studio, in cpp, compiled in release mode... results in an 11KB exe. is this normal for vs? would gcc/msys/cygwin etc be smaller? seems kinda weird to use 11000 bytes to call printf and return 0.
2022-03-09T00:25:43 < BrainDamage> upgrdman: libcs are big
2022-03-09T00:26:14 < upgrdman> ya but wouldnt it just be a call to some DLL?
2022-03-09T00:26:17 < BrainDamage> bitmask: I meant as a cheap prototype system
2022-03-09T00:26:40 < bitmask> oh
2022-03-09T00:27:12 < BrainDamage> a 5$ setup that will give you as performance as a 50$, it's just inconveniently large
2022-03-09T00:27:19 < BrainDamage> but good for testing
2022-03-09T00:27:54 < BrainDamage> upgrdman: in the case of c++, not so much
2022-03-09T00:28:19 < BrainDamage> upgrdman: c++ abi isn't much of a thing, so you either interface with a c-api, or inline things
2022-03-09T00:29:09 < upgrdman> isnt printf part of stdio.h, which is part of the c api?
2022-03-09T00:29:26 < BrainDamage> printf is stdio.h, yes
2022-03-09T00:30:30 < BrainDamage> just out of curiosity, if you do #include <iostream> and std::cout << "hello world" < std::endl(); which size does it take?
2022-03-09T00:30:30 < upgrdman> so it should just be a CALL, right?
2022-03-09T00:30:37 < upgrdman> i'll check
2022-03-09T00:32:59 < upgrdman> ~same size
2022-03-09T00:33:27 < qyx> I need to generate UUID on stm32, any ideas?
2022-03-09T00:34:22 < BrainDamage> so what gets linked there is not simple stdlib, but extra junk like manifests, etc, I would say to objdump it
2022-03-09T00:35:25 < upgrdman> ya
2022-03-09T00:35:26 < upgrdman> wtf
2022-03-09T00:35:40 < upgrdman> int main() {return 69;} is allow 11KB... lol
2022-03-09T00:35:46 < upgrdman> s/allow/also
2022-03-09T00:35:53 < qyx> is 11K too much?
2022-03-09T00:35:57 < josuah> upgrdman: how large is crt.o?
2022-03-09T00:36:14 < josuah> what does the .map file says?
2022-03-09T00:36:44 < upgrdman> qyx, just surprised that even RETURN n; with no includes... is more than a few dozen bytes
2022-03-09T00:37:54 < qyx> including headers should not generate any code, so this should not matter
2022-03-09T00:38:13 < qyx> in normal world which ended using static shit in headers
2022-03-09T00:38:29 < qyx> probably as josuah says
2022-03-09T00:53:24 < octorian> Hey, has anyone heard of the STM32C0 line yet?  Seems like the latest CubeMX/CubeIDE updates added support for it, but its not otherwise mentioned *anywhere* yet.
2022-03-09T00:54:23 < qyx> no, sounds like risc-v
2022-03-09T00:55:51 < sauce> m0+ according to some random docs, no further details
2022-03-09T00:56:15 < qyx> I have found nothing
2022-03-09T00:56:40 < qyx> only a wrongly OCR'd PDF, it should have been G031 probably instead of C031
2022-03-09T01:00:09 < Steffann> You need better google-fu qyx
2022-03-09T01:01:40 < Steffann> AN2606 mentions it as well. 2nd hit on the Google 
2022-03-09T01:02:34 < sauce> probably wont announce it till they have a tapeout date
2022-03-09T01:02:38 < sauce> so, couple years
2022-03-09T01:02:49 < BrainDamage> that would the opposite of recent trend
2022-03-09T01:03:22 < qyx> Steffann: better find me a rpi rs232 hat on TME
2022-03-09T01:03:25 < qyx> with yur google fu
2022-03-09T01:04:56 < Steffann> One that is actually in stock I assume 
2022-03-09T01:05:43 < qyx> even a usb-rs232
2022-03-09T01:05:44 < qyx> find
2022-03-09T01:05:45 < qyx> cannot I
2022-03-09T01:05:48 < qyx> even
2022-03-09T01:05:49 < qyx> fuck yoda
2022-03-09T01:06:17 < qyx> writing faster than I am able to finish the sentence in my brain
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2022-03-09T01:07:44 < josuah> qyx: if no raspberry pi hat, it might be much possible to use any rs232 <-> UART breadboard and put it on the pi somehow
2022-03-09T01:09:24 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/mikroe-222/prislusenstvo-k-vyvojovym-sadam/mikroelektronika/max232/
2022-03-09T01:09:28 < qyx> found this, should be good
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2022-03-09T01:11:29 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1501334281473429505
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2022-03-09T01:15:28 < qyx> flowing
2022-03-09T01:19:22 < Mangy_Dog> :p
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2022-03-09T01:58:23 < machinehum> catphish_: You use a RTOS on this thing?
2022-03-09T02:00:22 < catphish_> machinehum: nope, just simple single threaded stuff
2022-03-09T02:00:35 < machinehum> I found the multicore folder with all the examples
2022-03-09T02:00:42 < machinehum> Looks simple enough
2022-03-09T02:01:26 < machinehum> It looks like they're implemented some sync stuff as well
2022-03-09T02:02:19 < catphish_> oh yeah, it has 2 cores, i never tried firing up the second one
2022-03-09T02:02:48 < machinehum> That's the coolest part of this part
2022-03-09T02:03:02 < machinehum> You can have one core dedicated to blinking your LED
2022-03-09T02:03:43 < machinehum> Seems like the zephyr people have some basic stuff running, no duel core anything yet or PIO
2022-03-09T02:03:44 < BrainDamage> that's a quote grab worthy sentence
2022-03-09T02:03:55 < machinehum> lol
2022-03-09T02:04:26 < machinehum> One both cores are going on zephyr and PIO can be implemented makes sense to switch over
2022-03-09T02:05:50 < catphish_> machinehum: i've never had any interest in RTOS personally, i just write my own simple event handling loop as needed
2022-03-09T02:06:02 < catphish_> but i'm sure there are reasons to use one in more complex systems
2022-03-09T02:07:02 < catphish_> this CAD project is amusingly like doing a PCB layout, at first it seems impossible, then as time goes on it seems to get neater and simpler
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2022-03-09T02:23:33 < kakium69> qyx: or 3000m
2022-03-09T02:24:32 < kakium69> borehole x2
2022-03-09T02:24:45 < kakium69> then fracking
2022-03-09T02:25:19 < kakium69> catphish_: if you plan to run such unsupported busbar you might have resonance
2022-03-09T02:26:34 < englishman> what’s the key to a high quality user manual?
2022-03-09T02:26:36 < catphish_> kakium69: it would sit on top of the batteries, but you're still right
2022-03-09T02:26:49 < kakium69> then no resonance
2022-03-09T02:27:01 < kakium69> if it has contact to battery surface
2022-03-09T02:27:14 < catphish_> no resonance indeed, maybe some vibration upwards only
2022-03-09T02:27:56 < kakium69> actually there could be
2022-03-09T02:28:05 < catphish_> kakium69: in any case, i'm not too comfortable with the bus bars at all, i've stipped back the design again with a view to using cables where possible, and possibly not bothering to cross the box like that at all, just let + and - exit on opposite sides
2022-03-09T02:28:07 < kakium69> if it bounces from battery tops
2022-03-09T02:29:04 < kakium69> yeah it looks a bit sketchy
2022-03-09T02:29:48 < kakium69> it could actually form waves that travel from center to ends
2022-03-09T02:30:41 < kakium69> unless damped with rubber or similar
2022-03-09T02:31:12 < kakium69> small waves but after all everything is vibrating in automotive use
2022-03-09T02:33:08 < catphish_> newly simplified https://imgur.com/a/g6RiSkB
2022-03-09T02:33:46 < catphish_> the interconnects can be cabled, i just need to decide where the main external connections will happen, perhaps on each side rather than the same side
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2022-03-09T02:34:46 < catphish_> this is simple to assemble now too
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2022-03-09T02:36:17 < catphish_> final decision is whether to use detachable sockets, or just run cables straight in, crimp them, and gland them, that is seeming like it's going to be better, despite being a bit ore DIY
2022-03-09T02:36:42 < catphish_> i'll do a final CAD tomorrow with the cables in
2022-03-09T02:37:01 < catphish_> and the rather boring precharge circuit
2022-03-09T02:42:52 < kakium69> remember to leave corners open
2022-03-09T02:42:57 < kakium69> as your welder said
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2022-03-09T02:43:57 < catphish_> yeah, they are :)
2022-03-09T02:44:38 < catphish_> so the simplest way to finalize this is juts to drill a hole next to each of the 2 relays, one on each side, and bring the cable straight in :) https://i.imgur.com/4x5mtKI.png
2022-03-09T02:45:57 < catphish_> fully open corners :) https://i.imgur.com/BjKs56f.png
2022-03-09T02:46:03 < catphish_> that part at least, was easy
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2022-03-09T02:48:22 < kakium69> aah
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2022-03-09T02:51:04 < catphish_> anyway, i really hope i'm nearly there, really trying to keep it simple now so i have a chance of actually being able to built it safely
2022-03-09T02:54:44 < catphish_> it's getting pretty tedious now, and the last part will be the most boring, making sure all measurements are correct, and everything is parameterized properly
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2022-03-09T03:18:54 < machinehum> When you're building a cmake project is there a general rule for when to delete the build folder?
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2022-03-09T09:24:52 < benishor> machinehum: why delete it?
2022-03-09T09:25:18 < benishor> if you delete it you will always have to rebuild everything
2022-03-09T09:25:32 < benishor> just make sure you ignore the build folder from your versioning system
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2022-03-09T11:09:29 < Ecco> Dumb question: what do the MHz of a scope refer to? If I want to view the "quality" of a supposedly square 100MHz signal, how fast of a scope do I need?
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2022-03-09T11:13:00 < Ecco> I'm trying to find the appropriate OSPEED setting for a SPI Flash
2022-03-09T11:13:16 < Ecco> and I'd like to "view" the signal on the SPI CLK pin for example
2022-03-09T11:13:39 < Ecco> In theory, it should be a square-ish signal whose frequency is 100MHz
2022-03-09T11:13:59 < Ecco> IIRC, that means a base 100MHz sine wave with a bunch of higher frequencies harmonics
2022-03-09T11:14:40 < lemmi> i think it's easer to look up the required rise/fall times and go from that to judge what frequency you need 
2022-03-09T11:14:44 < Ecco> Now most scope I see being sold are 100 MHz. Does that mean I would only see the base sine wave, and therefore have no way to gauge if the square signal is good?
2022-03-09T11:15:21 < Ecco> lemmi: You mean by reading the datasheet? Well, yeah, I did that. I did the "theory". Now I'd like to measure it in practice, because, well, I'd rather be safe.
2022-03-09T11:15:35 < Ecco> So I'm very curious at this point: 100MHz doesn't seem crazy high for a digital signal
2022-03-09T11:15:52 < Ecco> How are we supposed to "look" at the shape of those in a circuit?
2022-03-09T11:17:34 < lemmi> 100MHz scope is useless for a 100MHz "square" wave
2022-03-09T11:18:02 < Ecco> Yeah, that's my understanding too
2022-03-09T11:21:14 < qyx> did you fail EMC or what's the reason you are dealing with the SPI?
2022-03-09T11:21:36 < Ecco> qyx: spot on
2022-03-09T11:21:40 < Ecco> I did
2022-03-09T11:21:48 < qyx> also did you try lowering your OSPEED to 50 MHz?
2022-03-09T11:22:04 < Ecco> qyx: We agree that "50MHz" is not a very accurate name, right?
2022-03-09T11:22:09 < Ecco> But yeah, that's my next step
2022-03-09T11:22:17 < Ecco> I'll lower it as much as possible until the device crashes
2022-03-09T11:22:39 < qyx> it is like "something lower than the max"
2022-03-09T11:22:39 < Ecco> currently, there are 4 speeds (0 to 3, 3 being fastest), and it crashes at 0 and seems to work at 1. I used to be at 3.
2022-03-09T11:22:55 < Ecco> So I'll try EMC again at 1 and hope for the best
2022-03-09T11:23:06 < Ecco> but I'm kind of curious at this point and would like to "see" things
2022-03-09T11:23:27 < Ecco> And therefore I wonder how I'm supposed to look at a supposedly-squareish 100MHz signal
2022-03-09T11:23:28 < qyx> you can ask the EMC guys to measure it and make a screenshot
2022-03-09T11:23:48 < qyx> in the time domain, not frequency domain
2022-03-09T11:23:51 < Ecco> Oh
2022-03-09T11:24:02 < Ecco> Yeah, I guess they have some gear
2022-03-09T11:24:13 < lemmi> Ecco: again, i'd look at the flash datasheet and see what the requirements for the rise and fall times are
2022-03-09T11:24:45 < Ecco> lemmi: Yeah I totally did the "theoretical" part :)
2022-03-09T11:24:49 < lemmi> from that you can sort of judge a minimum frequency that's needed to achieve them. 
2022-03-09T11:25:08 < lemmi> and then you add a little margin for your scope
2022-03-09T11:25:17 < Ecco> Part of the problem is that the actual speed achieved by a OSPEED setting depends on the line capacitance
2022-03-09T11:25:23 < Ecco> which I don't know how to measure either
2022-03-09T11:26:56 < qyx> it won't help you either
2022-03-09T11:27:10 < qyx> it is not like the 50 MHz setting would pass 49 MHz and not 51 MHz
2022-03-09T11:27:48 < qyx> in the end it is all empirical
2022-03-09T11:28:42 < lemmi> i didn't have a lot of luck with that setting on an stm32f0. didn't seem to change anything. it's probably better to enforce the maximum frequency with a low pass
2022-03-09T11:29:05 < lemmi> or at least an in-line resistor if you know the capacitance of the trace
2022-03-09T11:29:13 < Ecco> qyx: Yeah, I agree. Which is kind of why I would want to "see" the signal
2022-03-09T11:29:43 < Ecco> I guess to have a "gut" feeling in terms of "well, ok, that looks reasonnably like a square signal" or "holy crap, how can this even work??"
2022-03-09T11:31:13 < mawk> Ecco: the mcu can set a drive strength also
2022-03-09T11:32:17 < mawk> which makes sharper edges in presence of line capacitance
2022-03-09T11:32:37 < mawk> I mean, smaller rise/fall time
2022-03-09T11:35:21 < lemmi> Ecco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYUYOXmo9UU minute 43 has some points about "square" waves. 
2022-03-09T11:36:28 < lemmi> but you probably need to watch a little more to make sense
2022-03-09T11:37:22 < qyx> Ecco: just curious, could you post a cutout of your layout with stm32+flash?
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2022-03-09T11:48:05 < karlp> I guess stm32c series is what mr thorn was alluding to.
2022-03-09T11:49:50 < zyp> stm32c?
2022-03-09T11:50:59 < karlp> new family :)
2022-03-09T11:51:10 < karlp> it's in the cube updates and the bootloader doc already
2022-03-09T11:51:27 < zyp> huh
2022-03-09T11:51:48 < karlp> that's all I know at least...
2022-03-09T11:52:10 < karlp> borneo hasn't put it into openocd yet, though he may be sitting on patches
2022-03-09T11:52:30 < zyp> right, AN2606 a C0 series with C011 and C031 parts, sounds pretty lowend
2022-03-09T11:52:49 < zyp> +lists
2022-03-09T11:53:08 < qyx> cannot select it in the cube, hm
2022-03-09T11:53:29 < karlp> kinda curious what the idea is, I mean, G was all about cost down, simplified, what are they taking out or adding to not just be a G series?
2022-03-09T11:53:44 < karlp> and U, why was that not Gx as well?
2022-03-09T11:53:46  * karlp shrugs
2022-03-09T11:53:54 < karlp> never try and understand marketing I guess.
2022-03-09T11:53:57 < qyx> isnt U more like L5?
2022-03-09T11:54:01 < qyx> G4 is not low power
2022-03-09T11:54:12 < zyp> C0 bootloader only supports uart and i2c, so I guess no USB
2022-03-09T11:54:21 < benishor> I hate most of chinese stm32 breakout boards for not providing a way to safely use external power and connect the usb at the same time
2022-03-09T11:54:28 < benishor> it only costed 2 diodes ffs
2022-03-09T11:54:30 < qyx> hence I am willing to believe it will be risc-v :P
2022-03-09T11:54:37 < karlp> simple solution: stop supporting them benishor
2022-03-09T11:54:46 < karlp> they keep making shit designs because people keep buying them
2022-03-09T11:54:48 < benishor> karlp: good idea
2022-03-09T11:54:56 < benishor> but they're even cheaper than the chips
2022-03-09T11:55:12 < karlp> "I hate x" "stop that" "no...." ok then...
2022-03-09T11:55:37 < zyp> hmm, I wonder if C0 is m23
2022-03-09T11:55:51 < karlp> someone up in the logs said it was m0+ from the cube downloads
2022-03-09T11:55:57 < karlp> but yeah, getting an m23 mightmake sense.
2022-03-09T11:56:01 < karlp> l5 is m33
2022-03-09T11:56:06 < karlp> u5 is too isn't it?
2022-03-09T11:56:20 < zyp> I think so
2022-03-09T11:56:44 < zyp> but yeah, it talks about «securable memory area»
2022-03-09T11:56:56 < zyp> so a lowend armv8m could make sense
2022-03-09T11:58:01 < zyp> nah, disregard that, G0 also mentions that
2022-03-09T11:59:06 < zyp> maybe it's just supposed to be smaller/simpler/cheaper than G0
2022-03-09T11:59:36 < karlp> so, lies then :)
2022-03-09T11:59:58 < karlp> or did someone convince them pdip8 was important or something
2022-03-09T12:00:08 < zyp> G0 bootloader supports two uarts and two i2c periphs, C0 bootloader only supports one of each
2022-03-09T12:00:25 < zyp> idk
2022-03-09T12:00:25 < zyp> On WLCSP12, SO8N, TSSOP20 and UFQFN20 packages USART1 PA9/PA10 IOs are
2022-03-09T12:00:26 < zyp> remapped on PA11/PA12.
2022-03-09T12:00:30 < karlp> that might just reflect g0 having a range of densities though...
2022-03-09T12:00:35 < karlp> so8, yay....
2022-03-09T12:00:47 < qyx> still no X2SON
2022-03-09T12:00:51 < karlp> thatswhat, same actual size as tssop 20 that you can get g0 in already?
2022-03-09T12:00:57 < zyp> yeah
2022-03-09T12:01:11 < qyx> G0 also has tssop14 and so8, doesn't it?
2022-03-09T12:01:25 < karlp> tssop 14 yeah, didn't know they did an so8?
2022-03-09T12:01:28 < zyp> ufqfn20 sounds new, g0 got ufqfn28
2022-03-09T12:01:42 < qyx> they did, mouser is full of so8 shit
2022-03-09T12:02:11 < zyp> I've considered using the so8, but tssop20 or whatever seemed to have better availability last I checked
2022-03-09T12:02:26 < qyx> then they got around 50kpcs of so8
2022-03-09T12:02:33 < qyx> there are still some leftovers
2022-03-09T12:02:42 < karlp> ah no, tssop14 is ~identical to so8, thought it was tssop20
2022-03-09T12:03:25 < karlp> what pitch is the qfn20?
2022-03-09T12:03:33 < zyp> it'd be a good fit for shit like syzygy dna, only needs i2c and one adc input
2022-03-09T12:04:32 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gGe0J.png so8, tssop14, qfn20@0.4mm qfn20 @0.5mm
2022-03-09T12:04:49 < karlp> dna is their "board id system" ?
2022-03-09T12:05:14 < zyp> yeah, it's effectively an i2c eeprom with address defined by a resistor value, hence adc input
2022-03-09T12:06:29 < qyx> LEd drivers may be another application
2022-03-09T12:06:33 < qyx> single button, single PWM
2022-03-09T12:07:35 < zyp> I wonder how the wlcsp12 is laid out, I assume 3x4 grid, so there's only two center balls inaccessible on a cheap pcb
2022-03-09T12:08:08 < qyx> I have seen 4x4 without center 4 balls
2022-03-09T12:08:14 < qyx> but idk what it was
2022-03-09T12:08:17 < zyp> that'd be even better
2022-03-09T12:09:23 < karlp> there's also this one: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/D1geL.png
2022-03-09T12:09:41 < karlp> which looks pretty easy to use
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2022-03-09T12:10:12 < qyx> whats the pitch?
2022-03-09T12:10:25 < karlp> 0.4
2022-03-09T12:10:40 < karlp> that's one that was in kicad under wlcsp-12, not sure the source honestly :)
2022-03-09T12:10:41 < qyx> the ball is 0.2?
2022-03-09T12:10:46 < karlp> just sticking things down :)
2022-03-09T12:11:00 < karlp> kicad says it's from bosch?
2022-03-09T12:11:08 < qyx> meh work is waiting to be done
2022-03-09T12:11:22 < karlp> yeah, shouldn't be looking at this shit realllly
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2022-03-09T12:34:59 < mawk> did you answer yesterday PaulFertser ? I had to go away
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2022-03-09T12:51:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: no, I didn't.
2022-03-09T12:51:46 < mawk> ah sorry
2022-03-09T12:52:30 < PaulFertser> mawk: it's just a busy-wait loop to add delay, and the two coefficients are offset and factor of a straight line approximating the delay from number of cycles or something like that.
2022-03-09T12:52:59 < mawk> hmm
2022-03-09T12:53:05 < mawk> and do you know how it was computed?
2022-03-09T12:53:21 < mawk> I found values over the internet for many revisions of raspberry pi, but not for the 3B+
2022-03-09T12:53:25 < mawk> which has clock speed 1400MHz
2022-03-09T12:53:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: for the raspberrypi1 I measured it with an old 5 MHz scope.
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2022-03-09T12:53:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: on an idle board running just OpenOCD
2022-03-09T12:53:45 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-09T12:54:08 < PaulFertser> Assuming the time depends linearly from the number of busy-wait cycles.
2022-03-09T12:54:16 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-09T12:54:20 < mawk> I used the same proportionality factor to go from the other clock speeds to 1400MHz
2022-03-09T12:54:29 < mawk> since other clock speeds seem to be matching that anyway
2022-03-09T12:54:52 < mawk> but it's still not enough, I had to lower adapter speed or it wouldn't work
2022-03-09T12:55:00 < mawk> from 300kHz to 100kHz
2022-03-09T12:55:58 < mawk> for RPI1 at 700MHz clock you measured factor of 146203 and offset of 28
2022-03-09T12:57:14 < PaulFertser> mawk: that might be also due to impedance mismatch. Do you have series termination resistors on data lines?
2022-03-09T12:57:33 < PaulFertser> mawk: iirc current code uses maximum drive strength and it's not changeable without recompiling.
2022-03-09T12:57:52 < mawk> I'm not sure, I need to look the schematic
2022-03-09T12:58:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: there was also some bug report about certain versions of rpi having odd internal synchro issues, I suggest you search gerrit for message:bcm2835gpio
2022-03-09T12:59:26 < mawk> no, it doesn't look like there's any series resistor, it just goes straight from the pi to the mcu
2022-03-09T12:59:33 < mawk> thanks
2022-03-09T13:01:10 < mawk> can I scope the swd line and then I adjust the coefficients until I get the right period ? is that what you did?
2022-03-09T13:01:44 < mawk> the doc says the calculation is coeff/kHz - offset, so if coeff is 146203 and offset is 28 and kHz is 300 then that value is around 460
2022-03-09T13:01:48 < mawk> but I don't understand which unit it is
2022-03-09T13:03:39 < mawk> it's a number of busy loops then maybe
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2022-03-09T13:04:52 < karlp> so, when you say 100khz or 300, what do you get ont he lines?
2022-03-09T13:04:58 < karlp> you're at work, look at it on the scope?
2022-03-09T13:05:15 < mawk> I didn't scope it, it just crashes inexplicably at 300kHz, and works perfectly at 100kHz
2022-03-09T13:05:20 < mawk> I'll get the scope maybe yeah
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2022-03-09T14:10:31 < PaulFertser> mawk: you should just scope it and see, if there's visible ringing then it's a drive strength/termination issue.
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2022-03-09T14:17:05 < mawk> yes PaulFertser I'll scope it
2022-03-09T14:17:11 < mawk> but I still don't get how the formula was computed
2022-03-09T14:17:19 < mawk> what is supposed to be coeff/khz - offset ?
2022-03-09T14:22:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think number of empty loops to perform after each GPIO transition.
2022-03-09T14:23:44 < jpa-> https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb/issues/763    "Your email has been received" :D
2022-03-09T14:23:45 < mawk> hmm
2022-03-09T14:23:48 < mawk> I see, thanks
2022-03-09T14:25:42 < mawk> is it like an assembly loop that does NOPs after each GPIO transition?
2022-03-09T14:25:56 < mawk> and you scoped the delay between 
2022-03-09T14:26:01 < mawk> and fit a line to it
2022-03-09T14:29:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes
2022-03-09T14:29:57 < PaulFertser> mawk: probably without nop
2022-03-09T14:35:01 < Steffann> Lol jpa-  
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2022-03-09T15:23:31 < karlp> lol, I think I'm out of ram already onthis part.
2022-03-09T15:34:17 < karlp> fucking 20k in bss. thanks silabs
2022-03-09T15:36:23 < karlp> docs say you get about 18kB used statically by bluetooth, plus about another 7k or so dynamic, by default.
2022-03-09T15:36:42 < karlp> and there's onyl 32k ram total, ever, no matter how big a part you choose (only options are 384k or 512k flash)
2022-03-09T15:37:47 < jpa-> yeah, i found that weird also
2022-03-09T15:38:43 < karlp> WB is 96k/128K/256K ram options
2022-03-09T15:38:49 < karlp> quite.... a difference.
2022-03-09T15:39:20 < karlp> kinda wasteful too when the dma can only do peripheral to ram in byte or word, so 12bit adc samples take up 32bits per sample....
2022-03-09T15:46:21 < fenugrec> englishman, why, are you making a user manual ?
2022-03-09T15:46:48 < englishman> the company has tons of them
2022-03-09T15:47:54 < englishman> covering a bunch of things, warranty, specs, basic instructions, api, tech tips
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2022-03-09T16:02:44 < jpa-> englishman: latex, of course
2022-03-09T16:03:45 < englishman> in an ideal world yes, but in reality ms word
2022-03-09T16:04:29 < fenugrec> in the best of worlds : msword doc, with manual formatting using linefeeds, comic sans everywhere, and then as the export step just screenshot every page as a jpg then collate to pdf. China-level
2022-03-09T16:06:29 < fenugrec> bonus points if html is used as an intermediate step before screenshotting
2022-03-09T16:07:51 < qyx> mspaint a watermark rotated by 45° on top of the jpg before creating pdf
2022-03-09T16:08:00 < qyx> CONFIDIENTAL
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2022-03-09T16:12:41 < mawk> lol
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2022-03-09T16:30:49 < josuah> IIRC there is a ghostscript command that does just that
2022-03-09T16:31:04 < josuah> maybe a long one involving raw postscript
2022-03-09T16:31:05 < englishman> sounds like some lunix pdf workflow
2022-03-09T16:31:55 < karlp> word with a template is perfectly fine.
2022-03-09T16:32:07 < karlp> it even knows how to make properly indexed exported pdfs directly,
2022-03-09T16:32:29 < karlp> just use the right classes for the headings so word knows how to keep the ToC updated
2022-03-09T16:32:38 < josuah> karlp: but what about all filling all these registers addresses?
2022-03-09T16:33:25 < josuah> making sure there is no overlap, maybe generating it from some kind of text document
2022-03-09T16:34:08 < karlp> that's completely independent...
2022-03-09T16:34:21 < karlp> also, nothing english said was about auto generating regiser lists...
2022-03-09T16:34:44 < karlp> IMO, that sort of stuff goes into the SDK package, as just a .h or something anyway :)
2022-03-09T16:35:04 < englishman> similar kind of thing with the api table i guess
2022-03-09T16:35:06 < josuah> karlp: then is there no risk of writing a wrong address in the document?
2022-03-09T16:35:28 < englishman> but it’s all written by hand no autogeneration
2022-03-09T16:35:56 < josuah> I see tons of tiny mistakes in some reference manuals, and filling the table one cell at a time, duplicated paragraphs
2022-03-09T16:36:14 < josuah> that could happen in any format though
2022-03-09T16:36:48 < karlp> your choices as I've seen it are horrific design, entirely autogenerated, or beautiful, but manually updated, or spending many many many hours doign magic.
2022-03-09T16:36:56 < karlp> your api should be stable anyway right? :)
2022-03-09T16:37:04 < josuah> if one ever wants to publish an .svd file, and an sdk, and a document, that is putting the same information at three places by hand
2022-03-09T16:37:28 < karlp> the svd or similar should be in the sdk, and that should be automatica, so it's only ever one place by hand, int he "pretty" user docs
2022-03-09T16:37:50 < karlp> and you just say "this is how to use things, explicits may have changed in the release you're using, see the sdk for specifics"
2022-03-09T16:37:58 < josuah> and human writing by hand would require checking 10 times every value to get it right, while it could all be avoided by having a single complete document?
2022-03-09T16:37:59 < karlp> ify ou reallllly have things that are changing that much.
2022-03-09T16:38:20 < josuah> yes in the end, hardware is not supposed to change
2022-03-09T16:38:29 < josuah> once its shipped, it will not change
2022-03-09T16:38:38 < karlp> if you're retyping tables by hand, you're already doing it wrong, at most you're reformatting a copy/paste.
2022-03-09T16:39:13 < karlp> englishman: I've seen doxygen/etal to generate from code, then copy/paste from there to get ~close to useful formatted into word.
2022-03-09T16:39:33 < karlp> and you just sya "this documentatio based on sdk rev blah"
2022-03-09T16:40:36 < josuah> changing would rather fix an error and propagate the change on the SDK and the SVD files and the Datasheet and the Reference Manual and everything else ever published
2022-03-09T16:41:16 < josuah> not changing the actual hardware, sure
2022-03-09T16:41:35 < karlp> that's down the path of "spending lots of man hours on it"
2022-03-09T16:41:54 < karlp> you've got to do it _a lot_ before manual is better.
2022-03-09T16:42:24 < karlp> you can spend a ton of money on a process control system from ibm or similar too and have it all fed in, if you have 20 people working in tech writing....
2022-03-09T16:42:30 < josuah> I was thinking most about missing a spot
2022-03-09T16:43:01 < josuah> but maybe in practice it's fine
2022-03-09T16:43:34 < josuah> as anything used that do not match the actual hardware may quickly (hopefully :P) be reported, or at least noticed
2022-03-09T16:44:09 < josuah> looking how suddenly the SVD files are getting fixups due to the Rust community trying to catch-up with the long-winged incremental fixups of the .h-defined registers
2022-03-09T16:44:35 < fenugrec> I find most autogenerated docs-from-code lack the kind of top-level overview and explanations that an oldschool "user manual" would have. I.e. I think there's place for two docs, one nice human-written, and leave the error-prone copypasta / updating to automated tools ?
2022-03-09T16:44:35 < josuah> I understand better why it is all done by hand
2022-03-09T16:45:39 < josuah> fenugrec: sure! instead of spitting the end of a MySQL pipe formatted into pdf to the developper's face, have an human points where the start button is feels better
2022-03-09T16:46:13  * josuah collects these koans in case he would have to generate doc: figure out something to avoid mistakes, but keep it a basic document, whichever format works best
2022-03-09T16:49:00 < fenugrec> This, to me, is a pretty well-made API doc : https://www.ixxat.com/docs/librariesprovider8/ixxat-general-documents/dell/4-02-0250-20012-c-softwaredesignguide-v2-1-en.pdf?sfvrsn=59f71d7_6
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2022-03-09T16:50:54 < fenugrec> Proper TOC, internal hyperlinks, searchable, overview sections at the beginning, possible error codes for each function (not "here's a list of 13598 possible E_XYZ return codes. Good luck"
2022-03-09T16:53:51 < josuah> I see a lot of distaste for the PDF format, and I was on that side too, but I learned to like it much more after discovering postscript
2022-03-09T16:54:19 < josuah> PDF is the end of a long chain for putting things onto a screen (or paper)
2022-03-09T16:54:40 < josuah> it lacks a bit of structure, but the document upstream may have the structure
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2022-03-09T16:55:59 < josuah> and no matter how much level of compmlexity there is in the upstream format, the end reader only gets simple commands for placement of text and lines
2022-03-09T16:56:45 < josuah> whereas the popular laternative (HTML) ships you the content, the formatting rules, and the entire document toolchain (MathJax for instance) in a virtual machine (the web browser)
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2022-03-09T17:14:48 < jpa-> hmm, russia is jamming GPS in eastern finland
2022-03-09T17:15:47 < fenugrec> just the gps constellation or egnos/galileo too ?
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2022-03-09T17:16:27 < jpa-> the frequency
2022-03-09T17:16:35 < jpa-> so all of them are affected
2022-03-09T17:19:16 < englishman> Got a news source?
2022-03-09T17:22:02 < jpa-> https://yle.fi/news/3-12350028  it's mentioned here at least, didn't find english version of the main news
2022-03-09T17:22:14 < jpa-> some old ones from 2018 though
2022-03-09T17:26:40 < fenugrec> there are active aviation notices about it;, https://ais.fi/ais/bulletins/envfra-fr.htm
2022-03-09T17:26:51 < englishman> So it happens from time to time?
2022-03-09T17:29:15 < jpa-> yeah
2022-03-09T17:29:19 < jpa-> not sure who they try to jam
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2022-03-09T17:58:09 < mawk> PaulFertser: is it necessary to give high priority to openocd to measure that delay? or to make that delay consistent?
2022-03-09T17:58:46 < mawk> I made a little program in assembly to scope the delay on the gpio line, but I suppose if it gets preempted it will mess up results
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2022-03-09T18:07:29 < PaulFertser> mawk: I never bothered much, it's not like more delay should harm communication.
2022-03-09T18:07:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: don't you have an oscilloscope there?
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2022-03-09T18:13:58 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-09T18:14:08 < mawk> but I was busy with something else, I haven't tried yet
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2022-03-09T18:28:30 < karlp> josuah: where are you seeing svd files being updated by vendors?
2022-03-09T18:28:55 < karlp> rust was trying for ages, but most of the rust places I saw ended up just patching them, because they couldn't get any changes upstream to vendors?
2022-03-09T18:29:09 < karlp> if they're getting changes now, nwo they've got even more shit to deal with, having multiple svds around :|
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2022-03-09T18:34:17 < kakium69> jpa-: it's most likelly russians but I could be play from the west side too
2022-03-09T18:41:32 < mawk> the delay is wildly inconsistent
2022-03-09T18:41:44 < mawk> I did like gpio_set(); for (int i = 0; i < STUFF; i++) nop(); gpio_clear();
2022-03-09T18:41:49 < mawk> and on the scope it varies a lot
2022-03-09T18:41:54 < mawk> even with realtime scheduling
2022-03-09T18:42:05 < mawk> ugly
2022-03-09T18:42:57 < mawk> the delay is mostly at one value, but sometimes it's way less
2022-03-09T18:44:45 < mawk> then I take the lower bound I suppose
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2022-03-09T18:47:58 < josuah> <karlp> josuah: where are you seeing svd files being updated by vendors?
2022-03-09T18:48:01 < josuah> actually yes, for esp32-c3! but that is the only place I saw it https://github.com/espressif/svd/issues/14#issuecomment-1050302200
2022-03-09T18:49:42 < josuah> it is their cheaper chip, (cheaper than ARM ones) and a new toy on the market that everyone wants to try out, so maybe that is the only reason
2022-03-09T18:50:07 < karlp> yeh, so, basically none of the other vendors have ~ever bothered to update svds since launch :)
2022-03-09T18:52:12 < josuah> in the end, if the single and only place where registers are defined *ever* is a single reference manual, including the internal design (that says "check the reference manual for actual register addresses")
2022-03-09T18:52:37 < josuah> then everything is only declared at one place only
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2022-03-09T19:07:41 < kakium69> PaulFertser: did you escape?
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2022-03-09T19:47:03 < catphish_> now this is a nice connector :) https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Technical-Products/PL082X-301-10D8?qs=GtmDRopnxzp37PMWjbolSQ%3D%3D
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2022-03-09T20:01:08 < PaulFertser> kakium69: I was and still am in russia
2022-03-09T20:01:46 < jpa-> do you still have food in markets?
2022-03-09T20:01:58 < PaulFertser> Yes, no shortage of food.
2022-03-09T20:02:02 < kakium69> PaulFertser: just pinging..
2022-03-09T20:02:12 < PaulFertser> ATMs work, visa works inside the country etc.
2022-03-09T20:02:57 < PaulFertser> But there's no doubt we're going to face extremely serious economics issues.
2022-03-09T20:04:00 < specing> no stms for you
2022-03-09T20:04:11 < PaulFertser> Likely so.
2022-03-09T20:05:46 < kakium69> is there even stms for anybody?
2022-03-09T20:05:48 < kakium69> :P
2022-03-09T20:07:52 < catphish_> PaulFertser: can you pressure gov.ru to stop the war please?
2022-03-09T20:08:31 < PaulFertser> catphish_: wished I could do anything at all. Guess you didn't read much about living in a totalitarian/authoritarian state...
2022-03-09T20:10:27 < PaulFertser> Even the oligarchs do not seem to be able to do anything about it.
2022-03-09T20:10:28 < catphish_> PaulFertser: i still can't get my head around it, .ru is a republic, this means people must be choosing to get off their couch and vote for the government they claim is authoritarian
2022-03-09T20:10:45 < machinehum> or else
2022-03-09T20:10:47 < kakium69> PaulFertser: they are all in
2022-03-09T20:11:01 < fenugrec> if holding a sign and protesting in the street can get your ass arrested, it makes things a bit more... challenging
2022-03-09T20:11:06 < PaulFertser> kakium69: they are all losing plenty of money and future.
2022-03-09T20:11:56 < qyx> he basically managed to do turn russia into north korea in two weeks, way more than Kim achieved
2022-03-09T20:11:57 < PaulFertser> catphish_: the government controls TV and the list of parties and candidates. So with this and enough propaganda they always choose themselves.
2022-03-09T20:12:34 < kakium69> they can be speak against it but as they are all in their interest speaks differently
2022-03-09T20:12:39 < catphish_> PaulFertser: you mean the people vote for who they're told to vote for, i know it's not that simple, but i still lack sympathy
2022-03-09T20:12:42 < PaulFertser> catphish_: of course I never voted for them but plenty of people did.
2022-03-09T20:13:25 < qyx> PaulFertser: can you even be sure your vote was properly counted for?
2022-03-09T20:13:39 < catphish_> qyx: that's a less pleasant matter, indeed
2022-03-09T20:14:05 < machinehum> Proposal: Kill putin
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2022-03-09T20:14:15 < PaulFertser> qyx: no, there were plenty of decent proofs the counting wasn't accurate. But it doesn't seem to be exactly the Belarus case where they draw arbitrary numbers.
2022-03-09T20:14:23 < catphish_> i dutifully go out every 4 years and vote for a candidate i know will lose, i believe in democracy, regardless of hard facts to the contrary :)
2022-03-09T20:15:48 < catphish_> machinehum: in all seriousness, they could just... not vote for him
2022-03-09T20:16:00 < PaulFertser> At least you have a candidate to vote for. In russia all independent candidates are not admitted.
2022-03-09T20:16:23 < Steffann> PaulFertser:  did you know EU blocks RT.com and Sputnik?
2022-03-09T20:16:35 < catphish_> killing him only makes him a martyr and strengthens whoever controls him
2022-03-09T20:16:41 < qyx> US defense official denies Russian claims, says "majority" of Ukrainian air fleet "still intact and operable"
2022-03-09T20:16:48 < qyx> I hope it is not the Slovakian case
2022-03-09T20:16:48 < Steffann> It's a joke imho. Everyone should be able to read what they want
2022-03-09T20:16:58 < qyx> we have mig-29 intact because they are probably unable to fly
2022-03-09T20:17:05 < PaulFertser> Steffann: yes, and that's quite unfortunate. facebook.com is already blocked in russia thanks to that, and probably youtube is next.
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2022-03-09T20:17:18 < qyx> a speaking of majority with "" is accurate when we have 11 of them or so :>
2022-03-09T20:17:32 < catphish_> PaulFertser: err, putin *is* independent
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2022-03-09T20:17:50 < PaulFertser> catphish_: I'm talking about any alternative
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2022-03-09T20:18:30 < PaulFertser> catphish_: you know they tried to kill navalny? And now he's in jail. There's just no way to vote for anybody else, they cut each possibility.
2022-03-09T20:19:12 < catphish_> PaulFertser: it seems there were 3 candidates in the last presidential election, and putin wiped the floor with the other 2
2022-03-09T20:19:19 < catphish_> PaulFertser: clearly people like something he's doing
2022-03-09T20:19:28 < mawk> if you trust the numbers
2022-03-09T20:19:46 < PaulFertser> catphish_: yes, many do, brainwashed by media all controled from a single place.
2022-03-09T20:19:54 < mawk> in equatorial guinea the regime wins the election with near 100%
2022-03-09T20:20:00 < mawk> do you think his people love the guy
2022-03-09T20:20:00 < PaulFertser> catphish_: didn't you read 1984 ?
2022-03-09T20:20:34 < catphish_> PaulFertser: that much i can believe, even in countries with free media, people can be pretty brainwashed
2022-03-09T20:20:41 < kakium69> PaulFertser: I personally believe what Putin said.. if they wanted him dead - he dead
2022-03-09T20:20:55 < mawk> he went pretty close to dying
2022-03-09T20:21:04 < PaulFertser> catphish_: at least they get several different kinds of brainwashing.
2022-03-09T20:21:06 < mawk> and only because his death was botched by incompetents he survived
2022-03-09T20:22:20 < PaulFertser> catphish_: they recently unlawfully closed the most popular radio station which was working for 30+ years and was the last professional one.
2022-03-09T20:22:45 < BrainDamage> re: brainwashing masses, this article is extremely on point https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-as-hard-to-escape-an-echo-chamber-as-it-is-to-flee-a-cult
2022-03-09T20:23:01 < PaulFertser> catphish_: and they forced "novaya gazeta" (that recently got a Nobel prize) to delete and stop writing anything at all about the war conflict.
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2022-03-09T20:24:20 < mawk> if you want to send a message and want the person to survive you don't use nerve agents; navalniy is alive only thanks to his luck and the incompetence of his killers
2022-03-09T20:24:24 < PaulFertser> catphish_: all journalists either went silent on the topic or left the country because otherwise they face up to 15 years of prison time.
2022-03-09T20:24:48 < PaulFertser> I agree with mawk , that seems to be the most likely explanation.
2022-03-09T20:25:04 < catphish_> BrainDamage: i find self-inflicted brainwashing to be a really interesting thing
2022-03-09T20:26:04 < mawk> it's patriotism
2022-03-09T20:26:37 < catphish_> BrainDamage: i sometimes go and force myself to read /r/conservative or RT, or the daily mail, for a dose of views that i find offensive or at least make me ask "why are they saying such dumb things"
2022-03-09T20:26:38 < mawk> it can get blinding
2022-03-09T20:27:19 < BrainDamage> catphish_: the article gives an extremely interesting explanation, because it allows people to remain rational and absorb the content
2022-03-09T20:27:49 < catphish_> luckily my wife also isn't as insanely liberal as me, so keeps me from falling into a rut of believing my own nonsense
2022-03-09T20:28:03 < PaulFertser> catphish_: you probably can't imagine what it feels like to be on a train on direct route to hell, the train that kills plenty of people on the tracks, without any way to stop it or to flee it. I'm literally shaking every morning these days...
2022-03-09T20:28:30 < kakium69> it's going to get worse
2022-03-09T20:29:00 < catphish_> PaulFertser: it certainly sounds like once power gets concentrated, it gets increasingly impossible to unwind, and certainly right now russia and china sound pretty unpleasant
2022-03-09T20:29:58 < kakium69> if we look at where the war is geopolically
2022-03-09T20:30:04 < catphish_> PaulFertser: this is one reason why i take every opportunity i can to discourage the way the UK is headed for a single party rule, with the media increasingly fosucing on internal party politics rather than external division
2022-03-09T20:30:38 < kakium69> it's a general area of almost half of worlds grain production
2022-03-09T20:30:45 < catphish_> clearly this isn't comparable, but it's my fear
2022-03-09T20:31:10 < mawk> catphish_: my ex gf is a literal nazi, so it's perfect to balance out the political mix of the household
2022-03-09T20:31:22 < kakium69> wheat will double by summer
2022-03-09T20:31:33 < mawk> nobody eats russian wheat
2022-03-09T20:31:38 < mawk> not even russian people I hope
2022-03-09T20:32:29 < BrainDamage> ukranian wheat
2022-03-09T20:32:45 < kakium69> it's the same fields across the border in russian side too
2022-03-09T20:33:19 < mawk> so the same amount of lead contamination?
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2022-03-09T20:33:29 < mawk> if it's the case that wheat wasn't entering the UE in the first place
2022-03-09T20:33:57 < kakium69> lead in bullets is not a problem
2022-03-09T20:34:31 < mawk> I didn't say it's from bullets
2022-03-09T20:34:37 < mawk> I say the russian wheat is full of lead already
2022-03-09T20:34:46 < mawk> and it's not entering EU
2022-03-09T20:35:06 < kakium69> it's sold to south I think
2022-03-09T20:35:07 < qyx> mawk: the one from ukraine or the one you live with?
2022-03-09T20:35:22 < mawk> the one I live with qyx 
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2022-03-09T20:35:28 < mawk> the one from ukraine is in ukraine, I'm not sure where
2022-03-09T20:35:33 < mawk> I hope she left and is safe
2022-03-09T20:35:42 < qyx> thats the one with igor? :>
2022-03-09T20:35:46 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-09T20:35:49 < mawk> but she left igor
2022-03-09T20:35:58 < qyx> and you too
2022-03-09T20:36:01 < mawk> or vice-versa, I'm not sure
2022-03-09T20:36:05 < mawk> well kinda
2022-03-09T20:36:10 < mawk> her visa expired, so she had to go
2022-03-09T20:36:18 < mawk> and long distance things suck
2022-03-09T20:36:28 < qyx> now in these favorable times, she can safely return
2022-03-09T20:36:29 < BrainDamage> you mean the opposite
2022-03-09T20:36:35 < BrainDamage> don't suck
2022-03-09T20:36:38 < mawk> lol
2022-03-09T20:36:47 < mawk> lol qyx 
2022-03-09T20:36:55 < qyx> bad joke sorry
2022-03-09T20:36:57 < mawk> she returned a few months ago already, but maybe she can come back now that there is a war
2022-03-09T20:37:06 < mawk> I think she's alive
2022-03-09T20:38:04 < catphish_> mawk: lol literal nazi - sounds interesting
2022-03-09T20:38:35 < mawk> at least when I first knew her
2022-03-09T20:38:48 < mawk> then at my contact it degraded from literal nazi to regular alt right
2022-03-09T20:38:56 < mawk> and she no more hated the juden
2022-03-09T20:39:24 < PaulFertser> catphish_: btw, putin tells russians that the army is actually helping ukrainians to get rid of the nazis. Unironically.
2022-03-09T20:40:06 < machinehum> No fucking way
2022-03-09T20:40:12 < PaulFertser> Yes way :(
2022-03-09T20:40:24 < machinehum> PaulFertser: How many people in Russia know what's going on?
2022-03-09T20:40:25 < PaulFertser> That's one side of propaganda, the "humanitarian".
2022-03-09T20:40:25 < mawk> and that they are not killing civilians, they are just there to fight evil nazi nationalists
2022-03-09T20:40:44 < mawk> and that it's a defensive war, to prevent ukraine from launching a dirty bomb or genociding russian people
2022-03-09T20:40:51 < PaulFertser> Another, the "geopolitical" is that it's "necessary" to protect russia from NATO.
2022-03-09T20:41:40 < PaulFertser> machinehum: it's impossible to tell, no independent media can work or poll be performed, remember?
2022-03-09T20:41:55 < machinehum> I mean from people you know
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2022-03-09T20:42:13 < machinehum> How many completely uninformed people do you know?
2022-03-09T20:42:29 < fenugrec> man I hope stms get back in stock soon, reading depressing geopolitical ircs is depressing
2022-03-09T20:42:36 < PaulFertser> machinehum: I do not know many people, those I know are mostly informed. But that's a very biased selection obviously.
2022-03-09T20:42:43 < catphish_> i really don't think it's that hard to convince people that a war is defensive, when it isn't
2022-03-09T20:43:03 < catphish_> the UK could invade a small country tomorrow, and of gov.uk said that country was a threat, we'd probably believe it
2022-03-09T20:43:14 < machinehum> uhh
2022-03-09T20:43:18 < machinehum> really?
2022-03-09T20:43:26 < machinehum> I feel like that's a bit of a stretch
2022-03-09T20:43:37 < catphish_> i mean, sure, some people would be anti-war
2022-03-09T20:43:50 < catphish_> but we'e invaded plenty of countries in the last 10 years that were no threat to us
2022-03-09T20:43:52 < PaulFertser> machinehum: to access independent news sources people have to actively use different workarounds as they're all blocked by now.
2022-03-09T20:43:58 < mawk> in 2001 everyone many people believed the us
2022-03-09T20:44:03 < mawk> except france and jacques chirac 
2022-03-09T20:44:13 < mawk> "sorry we'll wait for the official investigation"
2022-03-09T20:44:33 < catphish_> iraq, kosovo, iraq, am i missing any?
2022-03-09T20:45:09 < catphish_> we were told "the US was getting rid of the bad men, and we have to help" and everyone was like "okay then"
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2022-03-09T20:45:42 < catphish_> it's really not hard to go to war and have people not care, and that's with totally free media
2022-03-09T20:45:59 < PaulFertser> mawk: that said, it looks pretty much like the russian army really trying to not harm civilians. It could have been much worse if not that.
2022-03-09T20:46:04 < machinehum> Yeah fair
2022-03-09T20:46:10 < mawk> yeah I guess PaulFertser 
2022-03-09T20:46:15 < mawk> they probably don't want to be there
2022-03-09T20:46:47 < catphish_> ukraine is doing pretty great in the propaganda war
2022-03-09T20:47:07 < catphish_> the world is seeing russian soldiers who don't want to fight, giving up, being treated well
2022-03-09T20:47:10 < qyx> BrainDamage: sorry tl;dr, I got to the middle
2022-03-09T20:47:36 < PaulFertser> Before it all started I had a pretty solid opinion that the russian oligarchs can't allow it to happen. Now I'm not sure about anything anymore.
2022-03-09T20:48:31 < catphish_> i hope london finance sector comes down hard on russian finance there, because i imagine that's where a decent amount of power lies
2022-03-09T20:48:58 < PaulFertser> Probably not anymore, putin has showed his independence from money apparently.
2022-03-09T20:49:12 < catphish_> that's a shame, and from sanity it seems
2022-03-09T20:49:28 < catphish_> someone should tell him only homos start wars
2022-03-09T20:50:22 < PaulFertser> catphish_: you know he was raised on the Leningrad streets? He knows well that "if you can't avoid the fight, strike first."
2022-03-09T20:50:43 < catphish_> i see
2022-03-09T20:51:56 < mawk> do you think he couldn't avoid the fight there PaulFertser ?
2022-03-09T20:52:08 < mawk> i.e. that nato would've struck at some point
2022-03-09T20:52:26 < catphish_> so, do i spend £££ on these connectors, or do i just put cables through glands...? https://www.amphenol-industrial.de/en/PL00X-301-10D8/Powerlok-300-single-way-receptacle-with-HVIL-contacts-X-coded/p9919
2022-03-09T20:52:35 < mawk> glans??
2022-03-09T20:52:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: I personally do not have that impression.
2022-03-09T20:52:47 < catphish_> mawk: lol glans
2022-03-09T20:52:58 < mawk> that's what gland means in french catphish_ 
2022-03-09T20:53:05 < mawk> it also means acorn
2022-03-09T20:53:39 < catphish_> it also happens to mean these lovely boys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_gland
2022-03-09T20:54:03 < mawk> I see
2022-03-09T20:54:04 < qyx> catphish_: whats the rated current?
2022-03-09T20:54:10 < mawk> for water protection?
2022-03-09T20:54:49 < catphish_> qyx: 250A - water protection preferred but not required to any specific standard
2022-03-09T20:55:36 < qyx> hm, what will you use for 250 A? sounds like 35mm2 required at least
2022-03-09T20:56:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: btw, in the late 90s russia wanted to join NATO but apparently not allowed to.
2022-03-09T20:56:10 < catphish_> ip44+ would be nice - and yes, 35mm2 cable
2022-03-09T20:56:55 < catphish_> i really don't know for sure what current rating i need, but i'm using 35mm cable, and 250A relays, so that kind of ballpark
2022-03-09T20:57:00 < fenugrec> 35mm2 for 250A !?? what is the expected average current ?
2022-03-09T20:57:27 < catphish_> fenugrec: well, this is where things get tricky, i don't really know, but tesla use 35mm cable, so i'm using 35mm cable :)
2022-03-09T20:57:29 < qyx> 10mm2 is good for almost 70A
2022-03-09T20:57:39 < qyx> IEC mandates 16mm2 for 63A iirc
2022-03-09T20:58:13 < qyx> 1 have 10 mm2 for 45 A and it barely gets warm
2022-03-09T20:58:21 < catphish_> the motor is rated for about 90A continuous, and up to about 500A for short periods
2022-03-09T20:58:27 < fenugrec> depends on allowable temp rise, of course, but a chart I have pinned here has "90C : 130A@ for 2ga (33mm2)
2022-03-09T20:58:53 < catphish_> the relays i'm using are 250A continuous, and 500A up to 120 seconds
2022-03-09T20:58:53 < qyx> wat
2022-03-09T21:00:13 < catphish_> i have no idea how you rate for something so bursty, but tesla use 35mm cable, so it makes sense to use stuff that's designed to be matched with 35mm cable, which is usually about 250A continuous
2022-03-09T21:02:20 < fenugrec> ok, well I don't know either tbh. That just seems like some massive current for continous ratings
2022-03-09T21:02:26 < mawk> I guess american public opinion wouldn't like it that much PaulFertser 
2022-03-09T21:03:16 < qyx> catphish_: what insulation does tesla use?
2022-03-09T21:03:17 < catphish_> fenugrec: the actual "continuous" rated power of the load is about 100A
2022-03-09T21:04:04 < catphish_> qyx: i don't know exactly, it's 2 layers of insuation with a shield between, obviously rated for 500V+
2022-03-09T21:04:33 < catphish_> these are basically the 2 options: https://imgur.com/a/lecUbIs
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2022-03-09T21:11:30 < catphish_> actual relay: https://i.imgur.com/pvy4QeO.jpg
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2022-03-09T21:13:12 < qyx> but it cannot disconnect under load, can it?
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2022-03-09T21:15:21 < catphish_> wow, this relay recommends 150mm cable :|
2022-03-09T21:16:38 < catphish_> qyx: it can break 2,500A... once
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2022-03-09T21:17:05 < catphish_> qyx: of course this should never happen unless something is "totally fucked"(TM)
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2022-03-09T21:18:39 < catphish_> it can break 400A, 100 times, which is really quite impressive, but again, if this happens even once, the inverter is unlikely to survive
2022-03-09T21:19:00 < qyx> is there a series fuse?
2022-03-09T21:19:10 < qyx> or the relay is a safety disconnect?
2022-03-09T21:20:14 < sauce> verging into the territory where they start being called contactors
2022-03-09T21:20:43 < catphish_> qyx: yes there's a series fuse
2022-03-09T21:21:43 < catphish_> some people call them contactors, i don't think there's any technical differentiation
2022-03-09T21:24:16 < catphish_> the fact that the holes on the connectors and the relays don't line up is a small but realy irritating problem that will require some creative bus bar wrangling https://i.imgur.com/HhiVguW.png
2022-03-09T21:26:47 < BrainDamage> if it's copper bus bars, you could apply a torch and bend them while hot
2022-03-09T21:31:37 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-09T21:31:57 < kakium69> catphish_: did you learn to use cc3d models?
2022-03-09T21:32:10 < kakium69> sorry..
2022-03-09T21:32:13 < kakium69> 3dcc
2022-03-09T21:32:22 < kakium69> https://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
2022-03-09T21:32:26 < kakium69> free stuff
2022-03-09T21:32:37 < catphish_> kakium69: nope, i'll check it out
2022-03-09T21:34:44 < catphish_> that does look cool
2022-03-09T21:34:52 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENyxseq59YQ musics
2022-03-09T21:40:31 < catphish_> looks like tesla's conectors are rated at 275A, so i'm barking up the correct tree :)
2022-03-09T21:55:56 < upgrdman> win32 pros: why would someone use HealAlloc() instead of malloc()? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/heapapi/nf-heapapi-heapalloc
2022-03-09T21:56:39 < upgrdman> *HeapAlloc()
2022-03-09T21:58:25 < zyp> presumably because you can choose which heap to allocate from
2022-03-09T21:59:23 < upgrdman> why would a process have >1 heap?
2022-03-09T21:59:31 < upgrdman> 1 per thread?
2022-03-09T21:59:40 < zyp> that's one reason
2022-03-09T22:00:01 < zyp> could also be heaps for specific purposes
2022-03-09T22:00:28 < upgrdman> any idea why? like why would you want that
2022-03-09T22:00:52 < zyp> create a heap, allocate a bunch of stuff from it, and once you're done with it, just destroy the whole heap (by freeing the pages) rather than each individual allocation
2022-03-09T22:01:18 < upgrdman> interesting. ok, thx
2022-03-09T22:01:34 < zyp> could also be heaps optimized for specific allocation sizes or patterns
2022-03-09T22:02:10 < upgrdman> oh ya, i think i read about GC'd languages often have a "young" heap and an "old" heap
2022-03-09T22:02:30 < zyp> according to HeapCreate() docs, there's a flag to select whether the heap pages should have the NX bit set or not (HEAP_CREATE_ENABLE_EXECUTE)
2022-03-09T22:03:22 < zyp> generally you want NX set on pure data allocations, but if you're doing any sort of JIT you might need to allocate memory without the NX bit set
2022-03-09T22:06:44 < upgrdman> zyp, do you know about about the win32 api?
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2022-03-09T22:07:19 < zyp> not much
2022-03-09T22:07:21 < upgrdman> im trying to programmatically mount an ISO or VHD, but the file is embedded inside my EXE, so i can't just give it a path, i need some way to feed it a path + offset 
2022-03-09T22:07:25 < upgrdman> ok :(
2022-03-09T22:07:58 < zyp> what call do you use for that?
2022-03-09T22:08:22 < ds2> linux losetup has offset support
2022-03-09T22:08:40 < zyp> I don't think that's very relevant :p
2022-03-09T22:08:47 < upgrdman> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/virtdisk/nf-virtdisk-openvirtualdisk?redirectedfrom=MSDN
2022-03-09T22:09:08 < ds2> if you want to mount it... 
2022-03-09T22:09:09 < upgrdman> it takes a c-string path
2022-03-09T22:09:32 < zyp> oh, so not a file descriptor or whatever the equivalent is
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2022-03-09T22:10:23 < upgrdman> im trying to make a portable app. normally you do it as an SFX (self-expanding archive) but i dont want to waste time copying files (even if not compressed) so i'd like a way to "mount" it instead. figure an ISO/VHD/etc should be easy enough, but any image type is fine with me
2022-03-09T22:10:50 < upgrdman> ya. i was hoping for something like a descriptor
2022-03-09T22:10:55 < zyp> not sure how paths work and if you could create a path to a virtual file
2022-03-09T22:12:04 < upgrdman> i found a freeware program that seems to do the trick, and im trying to reverse engineer it now. making slow progress with Ghidra + API Monitor (because this is my first time trying to RE)
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2022-03-09T22:14:09 < BrainDamage> tangentially related: https://justine.lol/ape.html
2022-03-09T22:14:14 < zyp> so according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660#Top_level an .iso starts with 32k of unused area; could you put the PE header there?
2022-03-09T22:14:20 < BrainDamage> kinda cursed, but interesting approach
2022-03-09T22:14:27 < BrainDamage> esp the zip container
2022-03-09T22:14:46 < zyp> IIRC zip has header at the end so you can append it to whatever
2022-03-09T22:14:58 < BrainDamage> yup
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2022-03-09T22:15:34 < upgrdman> zyp, nice find. might be worth a try
2022-03-09T22:17:18 < upgrdman> wonder why they did that.
2022-03-09T22:17:56 < zyp> presumably same reason MBR starts with an empty area before the partition table
2022-03-09T22:18:00 < zyp> to fit a bootloader
2022-03-09T22:18:12 < zyp> which is kinda what you're doing
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2022-03-09T22:19:02 < upgrdman> ya
2022-03-09T22:19:03 < upgrdman> nice
2022-03-09T22:23:03 < upgrdman> hmm, 7zip can't make isos. that's surprising
2022-03-09T22:36:53 < catphish_> it's free, you can't expect it to be good
2022-03-09T22:37:10 < upgrdman> thanks dongs
2022-03-09T22:38:45 < mawk> mkisofs
2022-03-09T22:38:49 < mawk> winrar is worse catphish_ 
2022-03-09T22:39:25 < catphish_> mawk: maybe you only used the free trial and not the proper paid version
2022-03-09T22:40:14 < upgrdman> mawk, im not on linux
2022-03-09T22:41:22 -!- ventyl [~ventyl@adsl-dyn135.91-127-122.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-09T22:42:34 < mawk> you should, upgrdman 
2022-03-09T22:42:52 < qyx> nobody uses that
2022-03-09T22:43:17 < upgrdman> i prefer linux, but i use windows more often because i need to get work done, and lots of pro shit doesnt work on linux or only works with hacks like wine
2022-03-09T22:43:21 < qyx> is winrar that thing we used on win3.11 25 years ago?
2022-03-09T22:44:36 < qyx> seeing winrar today I have the same feeling as when someone tells me he is using total commander
2022-03-09T22:45:37 < qyx> nah, but enough of dumb comments today, shit works
2022-03-09T22:45:45 < qyx> let's go sleep for 2 hours and I can start commiting
2022-03-09T23:01:28 < bitmask> pretty sure im gonna have to beef up the arm and i hope the motor is strong enough but not a bad start (sorry for the shitty video, i was trying to hold the camera and type in console commands on my laptop) :P
2022-03-09T23:01:30 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/19aeKse87mM
2022-03-09T23:05:27 < bitmask> damn, this motor isnt even close to strong enough
2022-03-09T23:05:33 < bitmask> im gonna have to switch to a servo
2022-03-09T23:12:50 < karlp> jpa-: where's the openocd pyuthon module here? https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/bletalk/blob/master/utils/logread.py
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2022-03-09T23:17:24 < Steffann> Talking about ble, i finally picked up my ble camera remote again. It works, but after one shot it seems the camera hangs. -_-
2022-03-09T23:17:37 < Steffann> Cant even turn it off, except for removing the battery :D
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2022-03-09T23:24:38 < Steffann> Quality jappy software
2022-03-09T23:27:23 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
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2022-03-09T23:47:42 < zyp> qyx, I have coworkers using total commander
2022-03-09T23:49:16 < catphish_> i finally made a decision, just gonna use cable and glans for everything https://imgur.com/a/4nteTl6
2022-03-09T23:50:02 < catphish_> hopefully adding auxiliary stuff like charger cable entry and precharge will be trivial :)
2022-03-09T23:53:33 < mawk> lol
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2022-03-09T23:56:19 < fenugrec> any recommendations for a not-too-shitty adjustable PSU for up to 100V output, at least 500W preferably 1-1.5kw ? main criterion is to not self-destruct , like one that I have here spewing its guts on my bench
2022-03-09T23:57:00 < mawk> for bench?
2022-03-09T23:57:10 < zyp> RD6018 doesn't do 100V, but maybe worth a look anyway
2022-03-09T23:57:54 < fenugrec> mawk, yep, can be gnarly, open-frame, whatever... just don't want to spend more than 1$/kw
2022-03-09T23:58:11 < zyp> oh, there's even a RD6024 now
2022-03-09T23:58:18 < fenugrec> zyp, thanks, I thought those needed an external power source
2022-03-09T23:58:42 < zyp> they do, you stuff it in a box with a fixed AC/DC
2022-03-09T23:58:56 < zyp> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S1ba24b7ad69f48c986a3fadf011835a14.png
2022-03-09T23:59:01 < fenugrec> oh yea ok. Well I still need a source for >100V@1kw then P)
2022-03-09T23:59:29 < zyp> maybe get two and hook them in series? :p
2022-03-09T23:59:55 < fenugrec> yes, that's an option I'm considering with various other 48v-nominal supplies which are dfeinitely more common
--- Day changed to maalis 10 2022
2022-03-10T00:00:20 < sauce> whats the application? how shitty is too shitty
2022-03-10T00:00:24 < mawk> so max $1 fenugrec ?
2022-03-10T00:00:47 < fenugrec> mawk, math skillz in action. meant 1$/w of course P)
2022-03-10T00:00:53 < mawk> o
2022-03-10T00:00:55 < fenugrec> sauce, charging battery pack
2022-03-10T00:01:09 < mawk> like directly?
2022-03-10T00:01:15 < mawk> or it has a battery charger integrated
2022-03-10T00:01:48 < fenugrec> directly. So CC/CV mode needed.
2022-03-10T00:02:08 < zyp> the RDwhatever ones have some charging logic built in
2022-03-10T00:02:11 < sauce> i was gonna suggest a variac lol, guess thats out
2022-03-10T00:02:25 < zyp> no option to split the battery?
2022-03-10T00:02:42 < fenugrec> yes, but very inconvenient. That's plan C or D
2022-03-10T00:03:29 < zyp> 60V or so is the limit for the low voltage directive, so stuff above tends to be speciality shit
2022-03-10T00:03:54 < fenugrec> I've thought of stacking server PSUs (usually 12V @ crazy amps) in series but research shows they need a bit of internal hacks to insulate them from chassis, and 100V @ 93A is beyond my tolerance level for this kind of dumb plan
2022-03-10T00:04:25 < zyp> what chemistry is this? lithium?
2022-03-10T00:04:34 < zyp> 93A? so 9.3kW?
2022-03-10T00:04:35 < fenugrec> some flavor of Li, yes. LTO
2022-03-10T00:05:07 < zyp> not familiar with those
2022-03-10T00:05:35 < fenugrec> (93A is from a populer server psu, 12V@93A, and while the cells should take it I'm not at the 10kW step yet : ))
2022-03-10T00:05:48 < zyp> ah, heh
2022-03-10T00:06:18 < zyp> have you looked at off the shelf chargers for emobility shit?
2022-03-10T00:06:19 < zyp> https://www.pmbatterychargers.com/900W-1008V-4A-6A-8A-current-adjustable-digital-display-partial-charge-lithium-li-ion-battery-charger-for-100V-gotway-free-shipping-p2952584.html
2022-03-10T00:06:43 < sauce> isnt charging that many cells in series without a bms a bad idea in general
2022-03-10T00:07:00 < zyp> I would assume there is a bms already
2022-03-10T00:07:08 < zyp> otherwise, absolutely
2022-03-10T00:07:12 < fenugrec> zyp, I did waste quite a bit of time on alibob/AE trying to get a quote for a 100V charger, and got zero confidence-inspiring replies
2022-03-10T00:07:33 < fenugrec> yes, BMS, fuse, contactor
2022-03-10T00:07:42 < zyp> what's the purpose of the pack?
2022-03-10T00:08:06 < zyp> it kinda falls between ebike stuff and EV stuff
2022-03-10T00:08:13 < fenugrec> 100V is sortof between areas for cheap ebike stuff, and high voltage automotive stuff 
2022-03-10T00:08:15 < fenugrec> heh
2022-03-10T00:08:22 < zyp> :)
2022-03-10T00:08:44 < fenugrec> EV project I've been working on
2022-03-10T00:09:01 < zyp> you should probably compare notes with catphish_ 
2022-03-10T00:09:21 < fenugrec> yea, he's closer to the automotive high-volume-for-cheap sector : )
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2022-03-10T00:10:34 < zyp> well, you're not gonna drive and charge at the same time, so maybe you should just split the pack for charging
2022-03-10T00:10:45 < specing> 100V is well above cheap ebike stuff
2022-03-10T00:10:56 < specing> not sure if I've seen more than 48V there
2022-03-10T00:11:01 < fenugrec> some power-tools are getting close to that though
2022-03-10T00:11:11 < fenugrec> IIRC 80V lawnmowers
2022-03-10T00:11:14 < zyp> I believe some of the 800V EVs have a split pack that can either connect in parallel or in series
2022-03-10T00:11:54 < catphish_> i don't know much about <150v systems
2022-03-10T00:12:04 < zyp> but I don't think mine does, I believe it got some sort of DC/DC stepup for charging from a 400V charger
2022-03-10T00:12:42 < zyp> I believe battery lawnmowers and the likes tend to use two packs that are charged separately
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2022-03-10T00:13:04 < fenugrec> very likely, indeed
2022-03-10T00:13:59 < zyp> I looked at a battery snowblower that actually looked usable and it had two 36V packs IIRC
2022-03-10T00:14:59 < zyp> ah, two 56V packs actually
2022-03-10T00:15:07 < zyp> this shit: https://egopowerplus.com/two-stage-snow-blower-snt2400/
2022-03-10T00:15:33 < englishman> attn fenugrec https://i.redd.it/tlk1tssel2m81.jpg
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2022-03-10T00:15:47 < fenugrec> Haaah
2022-03-10T00:15:56 < fenugrec> is it his birthday
2022-03-10T00:16:34 < englishman> haha
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2022-03-10T00:19:41 < qyx> fenugrec: gwl has some LTO chargers
2022-03-10T00:19:48 < qyx> how many series cells?
2022-03-10T00:20:04 < fenugrec> 38
2022-03-10T00:20:09 < qyx> *1.8?
2022-03-10T00:20:25 < qyx> or 2.4 max or whatever, not too much
2022-03-10T00:20:30 < fenugrec> *2.6
2022-03-10T00:22:04 < qyx> hm no 60 V max they have
2022-03-10T00:22:17 < qyx> but they are fully isolated
2022-03-10T00:22:24 < qyx> so maybe two in series?
2022-03-10T00:22:56 < qyx> https://shop.gwl.eu/Chargers-6V-to-36V/MEAN-WELL-3-stage-switching-mode-battery-charger-54-4V-6-25A-360W.html?cur=1
2022-03-10T00:23:07 < qyx> I have two such meanwells
2022-03-10T00:24:30 < fenugrec> I could go all in with a meanwell DPU-3200
2022-03-10T00:25:11 < fenugrec> 48V though
2022-03-10T00:26:18 < fenugrec> anway. riden gadget could work, maybe I can stack a fixed-output 48V bulk psu in series with a 60V riden thing
2022-03-10T00:26:34 < qyx> oh fenugrec is an adventurer
2022-03-10T00:26:41 < qyx> those meanwells can be adjusted
2022-03-10T00:26:53 < qyx> 48 V supply can usually go from about 43 to 56 V
2022-03-10T00:27:10 < qyx> there is a pot for that
2022-03-10T00:27:19 < fenugrec> yes
2022-03-10T00:27:27 < qyx> hm it is even in the datasheet 47.5 ~ 58.8V
2022-03-10T00:27:30 < fenugrec> I have tabs open for meanwell RST, RSP, UHP series
2022-03-10T00:27:45 < qyx> but not all of them have CC
2022-03-10T00:28:58 < qyx> which cells do you have?
2022-03-10T00:29:14 < fenugrec> can't remember, pretty beefy
2022-03-10T00:29:21 < qyx> the common 40 Ah ones?
2022-03-10T00:29:30 < fenugrec> something like that yea
2022-03-10T00:30:32 < zyp> I'd rather add a center tap and charge both halves independently
2022-03-10T00:30:48 < zyp> less potential for fuckups
2022-03-10T00:31:41 < qyx> get catphish_'s 250 A relay
2022-03-10T00:32:08 < fenugrec> then I need more wiring and connectors. yes, I can, but would rather not
2022-03-10T00:37:36 < catphish_> the final step is to choose a precharge resistor, despite being convenient, i don't much like the aluminium ones, don't trust the isolation, or how close the terminals are to the chassis they mount to
2022-03-10T00:38:03 < catphish_> maybe i can 3d print a mount for a bladed ceramic resistor
2022-03-10T00:39:43 < fenugrec> I wouldn't be worried with the alu ones if they have a proper rating
2022-03-10T00:40:48 < catphish_> this will probably be better: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/chassis-mount-resistors/7028024
2022-03-10T00:41:30 < catphish_> with the aluminium ones, i'm uncomfortable with how close the terminals are to the chassis
2022-03-10T00:41:51 < catphish_> i guess they'll be insulated when assembled, but i'd prefer the blade terminals :)
2022-03-10T00:42:12 < fenugrec> catphish_, this is inside a welder that's been running for 30y in a dusty environment, rectified 600V https://ibb.co/GpQzXgb
2022-03-10T00:42:47 < catphish_> jebus
2022-03-10T00:42:49 < fenugrec> they're just snubbers but they still get hammered with full rail voltage
2022-03-10T00:42:55 < catphish_> that is exactly what i don't want in my car :)
2022-03-10T00:43:41 < fenugrec> which part, the dust, the exploded IGBT, or just unshielded stuff ?
2022-03-10T00:43:47 < fenugrec> heh
2022-03-10T00:44:27 < catphish_> "yes"
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2022-03-10T01:25:35 < bitmask> https://twitter.com/i/status/1490210759238123521
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2022-03-10T02:02:32 < LikWidChz> On the STM32 there appears to be 3 labels for SPI pins what do you need to do to utilize PA15, PB3, PB4 and PB5? any special tricks
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2022-03-10T02:09:40 < qyx> what?
2022-03-10T02:10:02 < LikWidChz> I guess I should have said the stm32 bluepill.
2022-03-10T02:10:32 < qyx> in the datasheet of your MCU there is a pin alternate function table
2022-03-10T02:11:02 < qyx> but as the bluepill probably has f103 which is at least 15 years old, I can't help you more
2022-03-10T02:11:28 < LikWidChz> well ill look for that datasheet.
2022-03-10T02:11:32 < qyx> I haven't seen f103 since 2012
2022-03-10T02:11:40 < mouseghost> LikWidChz, alternate function 
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2022-03-10T02:35:29 < upgrdman> does cpp support anonymous structs? e.g. pass in a struct literal to a function
2022-03-10T02:39:17 < mouseghost> upgrdman, what for?
2022-03-10T02:45:59 < upgrdman> so i dont need to declare it outside the call
2022-03-10T02:46:11 < upgrdman> s/declare/create
2022-03-10T02:47:30 < englishman> yo upgrdman i am in san diego it is very nice here you live in a nice place
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2022-03-10T02:48:01 < upgrdman> englishman, im in part of LA, but ya, so call tends to be ok
2022-03-10T02:48:08 < upgrdman> so cal*
2022-03-10T02:48:13 < englishman> oh i thought you were down here
2022-03-10T02:48:29 < upgrdman> i drove to SD once for an altium seminar :) but that's it
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2022-03-10T08:27:09 < jpa-> karlp: looks like it is this one  https://github.com/zmarvel/python-openocd
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2022-03-10T11:54:12 < Steffanx> Damn.. I was googling for some display driver for lunix. 2nd hit or so was a blog post about it
2022-03-10T11:56:34 < Steffanx> While reading this post my Internet stopped working. Turns out I unvolutary part of a ddos attack on russian websites.
2022-03-10T11:57:07 < Steffanx> Only realized after I took a look in the firewall logs which showed someone was opening thousands of connections to russian ip addresses
2022-03-10T11:58:32 < jpa-> so uh, someone is launching a ddos attack to russia from your network? or your router is suspectible to be used as a proxy in amplification attacks? or someone is spoofing your address as the source?
2022-03-10T12:12:26 < qyx> got a banana pi R64
2022-03-10T12:12:35 < qyx> it seems it is not trivial to get debian running on it from emmc
2022-03-10T12:12:44 < qyx> at least it is not a 5 minute process
2022-03-10T12:16:37 < Steffanx> It's the browser doing the requests in the background to russian domains, jpa- 
2022-03-10T12:16:52 < Steffanx> Apparently Firefox accepts this (by default)
2022-03-10T12:17:16 < Steffanx> Checked with the Firefox Web developer tools and I can see it doing the requests
2022-03-10T12:17:33 < qyx> on a specific page?
2022-03-10T12:18:15 < qyx> oh a blog post
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2022-03-10T12:29:12 < Steffanx> Sudonull.com ..but when I visit the home page I get the idea it might be a fake website with random shit.
2022-03-10T12:30:13 < Steffanx> It was a specific post on that website. Didn't check if the homepage does it as well
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2022-03-10T13:21:35 < karlp> jpa-: thanks.  it looks nice, and I should know not to look under the covers, but it always bugs me seeing someone run nm in a process and regexp... :)
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2022-03-10T19:36:47 < qyx> karlp: any idea why openwrt overlay is not persistent, sometimes?
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2022-03-10T20:29:51 < karlp> wat?
2022-03-10T20:30:27 < karlp> um, I think I've heard of that happening when there's nto enough actual space for the overlay properly
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2022-03-10T20:30:33 < karlp> is this jffs2 over squashfs?
2022-03-10T20:30:42 < karlp> or are you on on a newer platform with ubifs?
2022-03-10T20:30:49 < karlp> and how much flash?
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2022-03-10T20:41:31 < kakium69> what was the naming convention of minimum types in c?
2022-03-10T20:43:23 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2022-03-10T20:46:48 < kakium69> ah it was least
2022-03-10T20:47:02 < kakium69> no wonder I didn't find anything with min
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2022-03-10T20:49:24 < qyx> karlp: f2fs on emmc, but I found the problem, there is this small button right next to the power connector
2022-03-10T20:49:41 < qyx> let's guess what happens when you press "reset"
2022-03-10T20:59:03 < ventyl> for me it did nothing, if held during boot, it started tftp server for reflashing
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2022-03-10T21:29:13 < kakium69> what would you think if I used centiseconds as a unit?
2022-03-10T21:29:20 < kakium69> in my codes
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2022-03-10T21:31:36 < englishman> be sure to label them improperly and you should be fine
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2022-03-10T21:35:38 < kakium69> yes
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2022-03-10T21:49:37 < kakium69> lurencer
2022-03-10T21:49:48 < kakium69> our favourite britt
2022-03-10T22:02:17 < Steffanx> Laurence the Mute.
2022-03-10T22:11:01 < bitmask> finally get to use this laser tachometer i bought forever ago
2022-03-10T22:18:04 < Steffanx> Measuring hand up/down movements?
2022-03-10T22:18:09 < Steffanx> *sprrf
2022-03-10T22:18:24 < Steffanx> *speed
2022-03-10T22:18:25 < Steffanx> lol
2022-03-10T22:25:01 < Steffanx> i mean welcome bitmask. Hows your day
2022-03-10T22:25:25 < bitmask> haha
2022-03-10T22:25:30 < bitmask> you figgered me out
2022-03-10T22:27:11 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/w8OFcB6.jpg
2022-03-10T22:27:22 < bitmask> spin coater
2022-03-10T22:28:08 < BrainDamage> you might want to put a cap on the motor
2022-03-10T22:28:16 < BrainDamage> the shit splatters errywhere
2022-03-10T22:28:23 < bitmask> true
2022-03-10T22:29:11 < bitmask> will the liquid have any lift? or should it only hit the walls at the level it starts at or below
2022-03-10T22:29:13 < Steffanx> What are you into? Splattering shit around?
2022-03-10T22:29:23 < Steffanx> *up to
2022-03-10T22:29:28 < Steffanx> or maybe both
2022-03-10T22:29:29 < bitmask> yes, shit
2022-03-10T22:29:58 < bitmask> hmm, i forgot i dont know how im gonna power this
2022-03-10T22:30:08 < BrainDamage> the droplets slam against the walls and will scatter in ~all directions, but mostly below
2022-03-10T22:30:11 < bitmask> lets see what psus i have
2022-03-10T22:30:28 < bitmask> BrainDamage oh right, collision splatters...
2022-03-10T22:30:54 < BrainDamage> the faster you spin, the more uniform your coat, but the more splatter you get
2022-03-10T22:30:57 < bitmask> oh good i have a 12v 30A right here
2022-03-10T22:31:11 < bitmask> yea i was gonna just put this whole thing in a cardboard box or something
2022-03-10T22:31:25 < bitmask> but covering the motor is a good idea
2022-03-10T22:31:42 < BrainDamage> mostly because the motor is the only moving part
2022-03-10T22:31:46 < BrainDamage> so it can get clogged
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2022-03-10T22:32:42 < bitmask> i can just cut out a piece of cardboard 
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2022-03-10T22:33:08 < Steffanx> or print a piece of plastic
2022-03-10T22:33:12 < BrainDamage> yup, no need to get fancy
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2022-03-10T22:58:17 < karlp> qyx: I'm not aware of any f2fs in upstream openwrt, so you'r eon your own :)
2022-03-10T22:59:47 < karlp> but what is the issue? what does that button do? what board is this?
2022-03-10T23:03:36 < qyx> it probably revers to default config erasin the overlay
2022-03-10T23:03:51 < qyx> it happened 3 times, always after I pressed the thing
2022-03-10T23:03:55 < qyx> it is snapshot
2022-03-10T23:04:04 < qyx> bpi r64
2022-03-10T23:10:52 < karlp> a few systems, not sure if it's default, ahve a button that is "click reboot" and "hold for x (5?) seconds to factory reset"
2022-03-10T23:10:57 < karlp> which throws out the overlay basically.
2022-03-10T23:12:30 < qyx> I am still a bit frustrated by the multitude of different LTE configurations, most of them don't work
2022-03-10T23:12:52 < qyx> finally I reverted to AT command debug and found out the SIM is not active anymore
2022-03-10T23:12:59 < qyx> so 4 hours well spent
2022-03-10T23:13:41 < karlp> different lte configurations in what?
2022-03-10T23:19:21 < qyx> qmi, ncm, rndis, old ppp, etc.
2022-03-10T23:21:52 < karlp> oh yeah, that shit is a train wreck
2022-03-10T23:22:02 < karlp> most dongles only support one or two though, aiui?
2022-03-10T23:22:23 < karlp> my quacktel worked out of the box, but to be honest, I've not run it from openwrt yet ;)
2022-03-10T23:22:34 < karlp> I'm still running armbian on some desk protos.
2022-03-10T23:22:46 < karlp> the openwrt image wrangling I've not got around to yet
2022-03-10T23:23:49 < karlp> what's cortex-m55?
2022-03-10T23:24:33 < karlp> hrm, st's got something cooking with it at least.
2022-03-10T23:27:16 < qyx> not even excited, not even a bit
2022-03-10T23:27:30 < qyx> they promised L5 to be obtainable, the same was with U5
2022-03-10T23:27:33 < karlp> no, probably m33+AI shits by the look of it.
2022-03-10T23:29:32 < qyx> 76 models in stock on mouser, it was never that low
2022-03-10T23:29:45 < qyx> the last half a year it was 95-110
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2022-03-10T23:42:41 < karlp> const TickType_t xDelay = pdMS_TO_TICKS(TOOGLE_DELAY_MS);;
2022-03-10T23:42:49 < karlp> I love automatic code with typos in it :)
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--- Day changed pe maalis 11 2022
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2022-03-11T00:19:21 < karlp> by my estimates, about 1 company per day has gone throught e process of requesting a bluetooth sig company id.
2022-03-11T00:25:16 < karlp> I wonder how many of the bt sig companies are dead, compared to usb vids.
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2022-03-11T00:27:27 < karlp> so, for giggles, you can ask for an an actual 16bit "uuid" assignement for your company frm bt sig. this costs like 10k, 
2022-03-11T00:27:57 < karlp> you can also be freely assigned (if yu've done the free paperwork) a 16bit company id, (that can't be used in the same places, but ... whatever9
2022-03-11T00:28:06 < karlp> so.. google, ok, plenty of money
2022-03-11T00:28:19 < karlp> has _20_ assigned 16bit paid uuids.
2022-03-11T00:28:26 < karlp> and none of them are sequential
2022-03-11T00:28:38 < karlp> so either a) they've gone to the effort of rebranding them after aqcuisistions
2022-03-11T00:28:57 < karlp> or, they just bought a new one when they did a new project without even trying to check if one was already availabel
2022-03-11T00:30:17 < karlp> in other news, nuvoton has regisered a free one, maybe they're going to make bt parts tooo
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2022-03-11T00:33:06 < qyx> nuvoton is the thing I like to try instead of f1c100s
2022-03-11T00:36:03 < karlp> huh, I didn't know they have something similar
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2022-03-11T00:36:38 < karlp> where are you going? sama5d and stm32mp and bpi r64 are pretty different platforms to f1cx00s
2022-03-11T00:39:26 < qyx> r64 is for a different project, grid powered
2022-03-11T00:40:03 < qyx> nuvoton and f1c100s is for a picture grabber, so basically a bunch of DRAM and mjpeg/h264 codec and CSI interface
2022-03-11T00:40:37 < qyx> sama5d and stm32mp is for the main board for datalogging, which needs CAN/CAN-FD and a reasonable amount of DRAM + eMMC
2022-03-11T00:41:14 < qyx> + ieee1588 is a plus
2022-03-11T00:42:20 < karlp> what nuvoton part are you looking at?
2022-03-11T00:42:35 < karlp> got asked about thread shit again today
2022-03-11T00:42:40 < karlp> fucking industry cock gobbling
2022-03-11T00:42:43 < qyx> something980
2022-03-11T00:42:57 < karlp> who manaaged to re-sell this 802.15.4 alsoran as a new contended?
2022-03-11T00:43:14 < qyx> NUC980
2022-03-11T00:43:24 < karlp> I was hot on 802.15.4 10 years ago, but  now? what are you offering that bt isn't?!
2022-03-11T00:44:07 < karlp> right, nuc980 looks ~identical to f1c[12]00s
2022-03-11T00:44:22 < qyx> yeah I said earlier 802.15.4 is basically dead imho
2022-03-11T00:44:57 < karlp> I thought it was, but apparently these thread people have amnaged to ressurect it, somehow.
2022-03-11T00:45:26 < karlp> I kinda feel it's like, bt(le) just does steady advancements forever, because consumer electronics
2022-03-11T00:45:43 < karlp> and 802.15.4 does large, but very step gains, based on generations of huge industry shits
2022-03-11T00:46:07 < karlp> I mean, thread is just 6lowpan rebranded
2022-03-11T00:46:19 < karlp> and the radios haven't changed much
2022-03-11T00:46:37 < karlp> btle gives me ~half the power consumption, 
2022-03-11T00:46:52 < qyx> don't you use the same radio for both nowadays?
2022-03-11T00:46:59 < karlp> if you have the latest shit, yes.
2022-03-11T00:47:03 < qyx> si it is basically a matter of software?
2022-03-11T00:47:30 < karlp> some of them don't hav ethe blobs available for all platforms though :)
2022-03-11T00:47:32 < Steffanx> Zigbee isnt dead...
2022-03-11T00:47:51 < qyx> stafun plz
2022-03-11T00:47:52 < karlp> so, if it can do 802.15.4, it can do zibee/thread with blobs, if provided, and enough ram is available.
2022-03-11T00:48:10 < karlp> but not all radios can do multiproto 802.15.1 and 802.15.4 at the same time.
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2022-03-11T00:48:33 < Steffanx> Que Y Ex. What's up?
2022-03-11T00:49:09 < karlp> anywya, if I want to do thread+btle, the comparable silabs part to what I have now uses twice the power,
2022-03-11T00:49:22 < karlp> or I have to use the just announced part, which unobtainium
2022-03-11T00:49:29 < qyx> tell them you may consider it in the next revision
2022-03-11T00:49:30 < karlp> but still, "roadmap available"
2022-03-11T00:49:35 < karlp> correct :)
2022-03-11T00:49:52 < karlp> had someone asking me today, "can we configure your system via modbus-tcp" ?
2022-03-11T00:49:53 < qyx> keep the current concept and goals!
2022-03-11T00:49:57 < karlp> like, please fucking no.
2022-03-11T00:50:10 < karlp> but yes, if you reallly fucking want to pay me for that, we could arrange something
2022-03-11T00:51:06 < karlp> was such a dissonance.  first was, "do you use something like mdns or upnp to allow network discover" "yes, cool, you guys are nice and modern" then "so we want to use modbus tcp to do remote config" "ok, you guys ar efucking nuts...."
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2022-03-11T02:02:53 < upgrdman> anyone know if there is a #pragma that will force visual studio to NOT generate debugging symbols? i want to make sure it's compiled in "Release" mode, note debug mode.
2022-03-11T02:06:49 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1502073266596458501
2022-03-11T02:13:10 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-11T02:13:59 < upgrdman> also, anyone know an easy way to overwrite the beginning of a file with the contents of another file? like if FilaA = 0xAABB and FileB = 0x0011223344556677, i want FileB = 0xAABB223344556677
2022-03-11T02:14:05 < upgrdman> with dos ideally :)
2022-03-11T02:14:12 < upgrdman> or powershell
2022-03-11T02:14:17 < fenugrec> srec_cat
2022-03-11T02:14:19 < fenugrec> from srecord
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2022-03-11T03:24:07 < bitmask> hah damn this motor only goes a min of 3k rpm powered by 12V
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2022-03-11T10:48:49 < benishor> howdy folks
2022-03-11T10:49:11 < benishor> any recommendation for a 20MSPS SPI DAC? is there even such a thing?
2022-03-11T10:52:03 < jpa-> benishor: connected by what? 160 MHz SPI?
2022-03-11T10:52:11 < jpa-> at the very least you would need QSPI
2022-03-11T10:52:23 < benishor> gah
2022-03-11T10:52:41 < benishor> I have a 20MSPS parallel DAC which I'd like to write to at full speed
2022-03-11T10:52:56 < benishor> but not sure how to go about it, I can't seem to be able to use DMA
2022-03-11T10:53:38 < jpa-> DMA can manage about Fcpu/6 speed to GPIO on most STM32
2022-03-11T10:53:50 < jpa-> how many bit DAC is it?
2022-03-11T10:54:47 < benishor> 12 bit
2022-03-11T10:55:43 < benishor> I plan to use an F746
2022-03-11T10:55:54 < jpa-> maybe tft peripheral?
2022-03-11T11:00:11 < benishor> how fast can it go?
2022-03-11T11:00:59 < benishor> damn, one of these days I will have to get started to fpga, but I'm a complete noob
2022-03-11T11:01:12 < benishor> I don't even know where to start from
2022-03-11T11:10:14 < jpa-> where is your data coming from?
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2022-03-11T11:36:57 < benishor> jpa-: I want to generate it
2022-03-11T11:37:15 < benishor> outputing waveform
2022-03-11T11:38:36 < jpa-> IIRC there are some arbitrary waveform chips that have internal memory you can load the waveform to
2022-03-11T11:38:37 < benishor> I wonder if I can do it with a parallel DAC and DMA 
2022-03-11T11:39:17 < benishor> but it should be running at a constant rate
2022-03-11T11:39:33 < benishor> jpa-: got a part name perhaps?
2022-03-11T11:39:55 < jpa-> yes, F746 can probably DMA out over GPIO at 30 MHz or more
2022-03-11T11:40:01 < jpa-> no, i don't
2022-03-11T11:40:39 < benishor> what if I use an external 20MHz signal to trigger an interrupt and set the DAC input in the handler?
2022-03-11T11:40:49 < benishor> would that be feasible?
2022-03-11T11:40:53 < jpa-> if you DMA to GPIO, there will be phase jitter, but either the DAC will have a clock input or you can put a flipflop in front of it
2022-03-11T11:41:18 < benishor> but then I would lose the DMA
2022-03-11T11:41:22 < jpa-> benishor: no, interrupt handler will take more than 200 ns to execute
2022-03-11T11:41:30 < benishor> fuckaduck
2022-03-11T11:41:36 < jpa-> benishor: why would you lose DMA?
2022-03-11T11:41:58 < benishor> what need would there be for DMA in that scenario?
2022-03-11T11:42:07 < jpa-> in what scenario?
2022-03-11T11:42:25 < benishor> if I get an external interrupt at 20MHz, I can simply set the output ports in that and call it a day
2022-03-11T11:42:27 < benishor> no need for DMA
2022-03-11T11:42:40 < jpa-> you can't get interrupt handler to execute at 20 MHz rate on a 200 MHz cpu
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2022-03-11T11:42:57 < benishor> unfortunately not, as you told me
2022-03-11T11:43:10 < benishor> then perhaps I can use a faster mcu
2022-03-11T11:43:19 < jpa-> or just DMA into GPIO, because that works?
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2022-03-11T11:44:06 < benishor> jpa-: but how do I get a stable samplerate?
2022-03-11T11:44:17 < jpa-> by triggering the DMA with a timer, obviously?
2022-03-11T11:44:50 < benishor> ah, I didn't think of that
2022-03-11T11:49:45 < benishor> can you expand on the phase jitter please?
2022-03-11T12:01:40 < benishor> hmmm.. the parallel dac I am looking at needs the data latched so that would make it weird for the DMA to GPIO
2022-03-11T12:02:30 < benishor> I would need two transfers per sample: one with the data and one to latch it
2022-03-11T12:10:12 < jpa-> why, just connect the latch to the timer output
2022-03-11T12:10:29 < jpa-> and the latch will eliminate phase jitter also (system bus traffic causes a variable delay for DMA transfers)
2022-03-11T12:23:44 < benishor> let me see if I got this right: suppose I have an array with samples. I configure a DMA to write to GPIO and I trigger it with a timer set for 20MHz. I use another timer channel at the same frequency to latch the DAC?
2022-03-11T12:24:02 < benishor> but that would require an interrupt 
2022-03-11T12:24:57 < karlp> no, just use the original timer output channel
2022-03-11T12:25:07 < karlp> you can have it both trigger dma _and_ toggle pins...
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2022-03-11T12:27:37 < benishor> the latch doesn't need to be toggled once but twice for each data sample to make it to the dac
2022-03-11T12:28:04 < benishor> the data is transfered on the rising edge
2022-03-11T12:28:23 < karlp> pretty sure you can manage that, potentailly with a second channel, but you can dig into the timer ref man section to figure that out.
2022-03-11T12:29:10 < karlp> pretty sure it's a "normal" type feature to get a pulse on timer match,
2022-03-11T12:29:45 < jpa-> just configure the channel to PWM mode
2022-03-11T12:30:51 < jpa-> it will be high until it matches the compare value, then it will trigger DMA transfer and set output low, and then at timer overflow there will be the rising edge that latches the data to DAC
2022-03-11T12:31:21 < karlp> that's the one, new it had to be something built in
2022-03-11T12:31:35 < jpa-> if you set the pulse to be at start on timer period, it will have the maximum time for the DMA transfer to complete
2022-03-11T12:32:26 < benishor> it sounds just like what I need
2022-03-11T12:32:36 < benishor> need to wrap my mind around it
2022-03-11T12:32:47 < jpa-> AN4666 may be useful
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2022-03-11T12:34:07 < benishor> thank you, jpa- and karlp!
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2022-03-11T13:48:56 < karlp> anyone know how to use jlinkgdbserver and get swo out?
2022-03-11T13:49:40 < karlp> "mon SWO EnableTarget clkspeed 0 <channels> 0" says "SWO enabled successfully" but... that's it?
2022-03-11T14:07:06 < zyp> is 0 a reasonable clock speed?
2022-03-11T14:08:06 < karlp> 0 is "auto" apparently 
2022-03-11T14:08:14 < karlp> oh, I put the actual clkspeed where clkspeed is.
2022-03-11T14:26:34 < ventyl> nobody wants to work at ASML. no more chips :(
2022-03-11T14:34:13 < Steffanx> Apply for a job there ventyl  
2022-03-11T14:34:31 < Steffanx> They have a quite a few vacancies. 
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2022-03-11T15:30:33 < ventyl> Steffanx: no need to, I was given an offer. But I don't want to relocate
2022-03-11T15:39:26 < Steffanx> Aah
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2022-03-11T15:41:27 < Mangy_Dog> Soooooo
2022-03-11T15:41:33 < Mangy_Dog> i made a little mistake on my pcb
2022-03-11T15:41:39 < Mangy_Dog> forgot to put pullups on the i2c
2022-03-11T15:42:26 < Mangy_Dog> some one mentioned and i think i should ask.. Is it possible to set the internal gpio pullups on the i2c pins and use them at teh same time as using the i2c transiver?
2022-03-11T15:42:37 < jpa-> if you have gpiov2, you can use internal pull-ups with the i2c peripheral
2022-03-11T15:43:21 < Mangy_Dog> does f103 have that?
2022-03-11T15:43:22 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2022-03-11T15:43:40 < jpa-> no, it has gpiov1; but it has the buggy i2c anyway so you might as well just bitbang it
2022-03-11T15:43:59 < Mangy_Dog> buggy how?
2022-03-11T15:44:02 < Mangy_Dog> ive not had any issues with it
2022-03-11T15:44:03 < Mangy_Dog> so far
2022-03-11T15:44:23 < jpa-> a lot of errata that the i2c driver has to work around
2022-03-11T15:45:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-03-11T15:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> how much effort is bitbanging i2c?
2022-03-11T15:45:33 < Mangy_Dog> and how much extra program space does that take?
2022-03-11T15:45:39 < Mangy_Dog> the door mcu is a c6
2022-03-11T15:45:42 < jpa-> you have to steal code from zyp or wikipedia
2022-03-11T15:46:00 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2022-03-11T15:46:01 < Steffanx> Maybe sloeber already has it.
2022-03-11T15:46:22 < Steffanx> Or whatever arduino lib that might be compatible 
2022-03-11T15:48:29 < jpa-> the i2c bitbang i use on f205 in one project is 470 bytes
2022-03-11T15:49:17 < jpa-> but if you are fine with the i2c peripheral and just need to solder one extra resistor, that's definitely the easiest way
2022-03-11T15:49:44 < jpa-> SCL you can drive in push-pull mode if you don't need clock stretching
2022-03-11T15:57:25 < mawk> Error: access denied / write protected
2022-03-11T15:57:27 < mawk> gjfdgjfdiogjfdiogjofdigjifdo
2022-03-11T16:12:30 < Mangy_Dog> yeah probebly just have to hack on a resistor
2022-03-11T16:12:32 < Mangy_Dog> pain though
2022-03-11T16:13:35 < jpa-> why pain?
2022-03-11T16:14:43 < jpa-> just solder a resistor to any of your VDD bypass caps so it stays in place, and solder a wrap wire to a via after scratching the solder mask off
2022-03-11T16:15:04 < jpa-> even without via, soldering to trace or pin is not that much effort
2022-03-11T16:24:00 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KEOIbzQtcg
2022-03-11T16:24:14 < Mangy_Dog> na its just awkwad as i have to do it 15 times :(
2022-03-11T16:25:42 < jpa-> your first proto otherwise works?
2022-03-11T16:27:13 < Mangy_Dog> yeah but ive changed the micro on there
2022-03-11T16:27:26 < Mangy_Dog> and as i went from atmega to stm32 i got rid of the logic shift i had going on
2022-03-11T16:27:30 < Mangy_Dog> which had its own pullup
2022-03-11T16:27:43 < Mangy_Dog> forgot to add the pullup after making the change
2022-03-11T16:28:15 < Mangy_Dog> just me being stupid
2022-03-11T16:28:15 < jpa-> if the pin next to SDA is unused, you can also enable pull-up there and short them
2022-03-11T16:28:28 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhmhmhmmhmmmm
2022-03-11T16:28:30  * Mangy_Dog checks
2022-03-11T16:28:36 < mawk> is there any reasonthis shouldn't work?
2022-03-11T16:28:49 < mawk> openocd -c 'stm32lx mass_erase 0'
2022-03-11T16:29:04 < mawk> assuming I gave the proper -f for using my jlink and for stm32l1x.cfg target
2022-03-11T16:29:17 < jpa-> you may need -c 'init' somewhere before that
2022-03-11T16:29:22 < Mangy_Dog> sods law
2022-03-11T16:29:30 < Mangy_Dog> using the pins next to the i2c :D
2022-03-11T16:29:42 < jpa-> because by default -c happens before openocd connects to the device
2022-03-11T16:32:28 < karlp> internal stm32 pullups are pretty weak by i2c standards anyway, they might work for some devices, but wont work for all.
2022-03-11T16:32:42 < jpa-> true
2022-03-11T16:33:09 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-03-11T16:33:20 < Mangy_Dog> ill just have to scrape off solder mask over the traces
2022-03-11T16:33:27 < Mangy_Dog> and solder two resistors on
2022-03-11T16:33:33 < Mangy_Dog> 15 tiems
2022-03-11T16:33:34 < Mangy_Dog> times
2022-03-11T16:33:46 < Mangy_Dog> .3mm traces
2022-03-11T16:33:49 < Mangy_Dog> soooo not terrible
2022-03-11T16:33:57 < karlp> what's at the other end?
2022-03-11T16:34:12 < Mangy_Dog> mcu
2022-03-11T16:34:14 < BrainDamage> if china can mass supply products with greenwires in, so can you
2022-03-11T16:34:18 < Mangy_Dog> or tiny qfn mpr121
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2022-03-11T20:03:14 < jpa-> does any of you have x-ray vision? i would like to know what the mounting holes on the opposite side of this look like  https://eur.vevor.com/spindle-motor-c_10130/cnc-3kw-square-air-cooled-spindle-motor-er20-milling-grind-4-bearings-high-speed-p_010379405863
2022-03-11T20:14:25 < Steffanx> There is a photo in the reviews, but its a different spindle.. 
2022-03-11T20:14:49 < Steffanx> Or no..
2022-03-11T20:14:54 < Steffanx> It's not
2022-03-11T20:15:37 < jpa-> yeah, weirdly they have the reviews of them all mixed together
2022-03-11T20:15:59 < zyp> probably something like this: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H099bc69e41ba4e6089b07b50d3951e83L.jpg
2022-03-11T20:16:00 < jpa-> the 2.2kW model has the mounting holes on the sides, but i have a narrow space where i would like to mount it
2022-03-11T20:16:10 < jpa-> zyp: wow, thanks!
2022-03-11T20:16:29 < zyp> not sure that's the same, just found something looking similar
2022-03-11T20:16:39 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003021117256.html
2022-03-11T20:17:02 < jpa-> probably at least close
2022-03-11T20:17:23 < Steffanx> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122189394344
2022-03-11T20:17:37 < zyp> I'm considering getting an ISO20 spindle for my robot arm
2022-03-11T20:17:44 < zyp> assuming I can get the arm to work :)
2022-03-11T20:18:58 < Steffanx> Photo 10 on zhe ebay
2022-03-11T20:19:27 < jpa-> if the 88mm width reading is correct, those screw holes are far enough from the edge that i can just screw on an adapter plate and get it to fit in the 80 mm wide mounting area i have
2022-03-11T20:19:30 < jpa-> Steffanx: <3
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2022-03-11T20:27:16 < bitmask> anyone know of a bldc driver than can control the motor at slower speeds than a standard ESC does?
2022-03-11T20:27:49 < bitmask> maybe like half the speed
2022-03-11T20:27:58 < jpa-> bitmask: with sensorless motor?
2022-03-11T20:28:02 < bitmask> yea
2022-03-11T20:28:06 < jpa-> vesc is quite good at it
2022-03-11T20:28:16 < jpa-> but if you really want good torque at low speeds, add the sensors
2022-03-11T20:28:17 < bitmask> heh i was gonna build one
2022-03-11T20:28:30 < bitmask> but i was hoping i could buy something premade for cheapish
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2022-03-11T20:28:38 < jpa-> fsesc is cheap version of vesc
2022-03-11T20:29:05 < jpa-> though looks like even they are quite expensive now
2022-03-11T20:29:07 < bitmask> i only need like 10A too, actually it runs at 1/2 an amp
2022-03-11T20:29:19 < jpa-> used to be $50, now it looks to be more than $100
2022-03-11T20:29:50 < bitmask> i guess i'll just build a vesc with different pads for different mosfets
2022-03-11T20:30:53 < jpa-> you can also hack a regular ESC to drive the FETs with lower supply voltage and change the feedback voltage divider to have it more sensitive to low backemf voltages
2022-03-11T20:30:53 < bitmask> how does having sensors allow increased torque?
2022-03-11T20:31:21 < jpa-> by letting the driver know the accurate position of the motor, instead of trying to estimate it from backemf
2022-03-11T20:31:30 < bitmask> i see
2022-03-11T20:31:55 < jpa-> once the error in estimated orientation is more than 60 degrees, the motor loses sync and stops spinning
2022-03-11T20:32:44 < jpa-> and at low speeds the backemf voltage is lower, but if your supply voltage is the same as usual the ripple from switching noise will disturb the backemf measurement
2022-03-11T20:34:12 < bitmask> of course the mcu isn't available that it uses
2022-03-11T20:34:18 < bitmask> when is this damn chip shortage gonna be over
2022-03-11T20:34:33 < jpa-> never
2022-03-11T20:34:34 < bitmask> looks like i gotta modify a bunch of stuffs
2022-03-11T20:34:42 < jpa-> we'll just have a lot more shortages also
2022-03-11T20:34:59 < jpa-> is your load constant or variable?
2022-03-11T20:35:11 < bitmask> constant
2022-03-11T20:35:32 < jpa-> then you can probably just flash simonk firmware on the cheap ESC you now have and hack it a bit to get the speed you want
2022-03-11T20:36:10 < jpa-> even running in open loop mode, if the backemf sensing doesn't work at all
2022-03-11T20:43:23 < bitmask> i got it down to 2.5k rpm running it at 8.75V, lowest it would run at, im just gonna try it at that speed
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2022-03-11T21:02:01 < bitmask> alright all this for nothing, i dont need slower
2022-03-11T21:02:04 < bitmask> :)
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2022-03-11T21:05:14 < bitmask> can you thin out pva with ethyl alcohol?
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2022-03-11T21:05:56 < bitmask> yes
2022-03-11T21:08:03 < jpa-> why not with water?
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2022-03-11T21:08:57 < bitmask> dries too slow
2022-03-11T21:09:18 < bitmask> i'll try both though
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2022-03-11T22:04:55 < karlp> this for your spin coating?
2022-03-11T22:07:27 < karlp> lol, just discoverd I have a pyocd git clone,
2022-03-11T22:07:41 < karlp> it has WIP commits for stlink support I was doing in 2013....
2022-03-11T22:07:47 < karlp> guess that can all be binned :)
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2022-03-11T22:58:15 < sauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahH6OJx5xU real musicspam hours
2022-03-11T22:58:35 < kakium69> musicspamming you said?
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2022-03-11T22:59:21 < Steffanx> Yeah, not my kinda of spam
2022-03-11T22:59:43 < evidlo> anyone use stm32loader with stlinkv2?  It's not showing up in /dev when I plug in the programmer
2022-03-11T23:00:09 < kakium69> sauce: sounds good
2022-03-11T23:00:19 < Steffanx> lies kakium69
2022-03-11T23:00:37 < sauce> it's quite a varied album give it a chance
2022-03-11T23:01:41 < kakium69> first it's like progressive but then it's synthpop
2022-03-11T23:02:05 < kakium69> punk
2022-03-11T23:05:44 < kakium69> interesting but I don't find any song that is a killer
2022-03-11T23:10:42 < kakium69> *synthrock rather
2022-03-11T23:18:45 < Steffanx> the enthusiasm of ##stm32 is booming again
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2022-03-11T23:32:24 < kakium69> make ##stm32 great again
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2022-03-11T23:46:15 < Steffanx> Where is mawk  
2022-03-11T23:49:44 -!- ventyl [~ventyl@adsl-dyn135.91-127-122.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-11T23:55:26 < kakium69> joined the foreign legion
2022-03-11T23:57:18 < mawk> :(
2022-03-11T23:57:32 < mawk> I took a piece of DIN rail then cut it a bit and bent it
2022-03-11T23:57:35 < mawk> and put in a box
2022-03-11T23:57:41 < mawk> now I have a box with a DIN rail in it
2022-03-11T23:57:57 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/TuC9N7N.jpeg
2022-03-11T23:58:12 < kakium69> interesting bend
2022-03-11T23:59:15 < mawk> I had to remove some metal around the bend so it wouldn't damage my precious rail
2022-03-11T23:59:26 < mawk> it's very bendy metal
2022-03-11T23:59:48 < kakium69> what is purpose of that bend?
--- Day changed la maalis 12 2022
2022-03-12T00:00:16 < mawk> to be able to screw it into my box
2022-03-12T00:00:22 < mawk> and have a vertical din rail in the box
2022-03-12T00:00:29 < mawk> then I can slide din stuff 
2022-03-12T00:00:54 < mawk> instead of hotgluing everything 
2022-03-12T00:01:12 < kakium69> you know you don't install din stuff by sliding
2022-03-12T00:01:39 < mawk> that depends how much you've damaged your rail
2022-03-12T00:02:59 < kakium69> also if you can just slide stuff it means you also need din-stopper
2022-03-12T00:03:21 < kakium69> or any din part that will not slide
2022-03-12T00:04:25 < kakium69> there are such solid plastic din pieces that stick to the rail
2022-03-12T00:05:51 < kakium69> "din rail end clamp"
2022-03-12T00:07:41 < kakium69> https://www.phoenixcontact.com/fi-fi/tuotteet/end-block-clipfix-35-3022218
2022-03-12T00:13:36 < mawk> ah nice
2022-03-12T00:14:58 < kakium69> there are many types.. some made from steel with a screw to apply clamping
2022-03-12T00:17:23 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hZGVDzQmoI musics. encore
2022-03-12T00:17:51 < mawk> should you ground your rail
2022-03-12T00:18:03 < BrainDamage> yes, even moreso with yours
2022-03-12T00:18:07 < mawk> lol
2022-03-12T00:18:13 < mawk> what's wrong with mine
2022-03-12T00:18:17 < kakium69> mawk: if you have mains there
2022-03-12T00:18:24 < mawk> yes
2022-03-12T00:18:33 < BrainDamage> because the user can almost touch it
2022-03-12T00:18:43 < mawk> it's in the box and the box is closed
2022-03-12T00:18:48 < mawk> if the user touches the rail the user is suicidal
2022-03-12T00:19:06 < mawk> although I should maybe have a kill switch accessible from the outside, I don't know
2022-03-12T00:20:50 < bitmask> wasted a lot of pedot:pss
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2022-03-12T00:20:58 < bitmask> boo
2022-03-12T00:21:49 < kakium69> mawk: "din terminal block yellow green"
2022-03-12T00:21:51 < Spirit532> I have an interesting problem. I, it appears, flashed something very wrong to the chip. No clock on the crystal, program isn't running(?), and SWD is completely dead. When I power the chip up in reset, it consumes a few mA more(which was how it behaved blank). As soon as I release reset, the chip goes catatonic, and power consumption drops. This
2022-03-12T00:21:51 < Spirit532> may have something to do with the fact that I'm feeding it an external 1.8 and 3.3v, disabling the internal SMPS/LDO.
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2022-03-12T00:22:00 < Spirit532> The kicker is: I can't touch BOOT0, and it's stuck at GND.
2022-03-12T00:22:21 < kakium69> mawk: yellow green terminals have contact posts to din rail
2022-03-12T00:22:30 < Spirit532> I've tried hot plug, under reset, etc - the stlink doesn't hold reset low, so it automatically fucks it as soon as I power it on.
2022-03-12T00:22:35 < kakium69> other colors don't have
2022-03-12T00:22:41 < Spirit532> Question: Wtf do I do? I have a jlink if that may be of use.
2022-03-12T00:23:30 < kakium69> did you play with oscillator / clocks?
2022-03-12T00:24:04 < Spirit532> Yes, the firmware is set to match real hw
2022-03-12T00:24:24 < mawk> ah kakium69 I didn't notice the contact
2022-03-12T00:24:25 < mawk> good then
2022-03-12T00:25:19 < Spirit532> This is an STM32H7B3LIH6Q if that's of any help
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2022-03-12T00:29:37 < kakium69> you need such sequence that uses physical reset ofc
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2022-03-12T00:30:20 < Spirit532> Well, I'm not fast enough to do it by hand
2022-03-12T00:30:29 < kakium69> indeed
2022-03-12T00:30:38 < kakium69> jlink should be able to do it
2022-03-12T00:30:54 < kakium69> or even stlink?
2022-03-12T00:30:59 < Spirit532> how?
2022-03-12T00:31:56 < kakium69> "Connect under reset"
2022-03-12T00:32:02 < Spirit532> doesn't hold it low
2022-03-12T00:32:19 < Spirit532> as soon as(?) reset goes high, the chip dies
2022-03-12T00:32:41 < Spirit532> I enabled CSS, which is one of the suspects here - it might just be sitting in NMI and ignoring everything including SWD
2022-03-12T00:32:48 < kakium69> it needs to be also halted
2022-03-12T00:33:08 < Spirit532> yeah, pulling reset low *after* it's released doesn't do anything
2022-03-12T00:34:15 < kakium69> can you roll back firmware do you have last working firmware available?
2022-03-12T00:34:30 < Spirit532> no, I have no firmware at all
2022-03-12T00:34:32 < Spirit532> just a blank cube project
2022-03-12T00:34:47 < Spirit532> configured all the peripherals, tried to flash, and this happensa
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2022-03-12T00:36:56 < kakium69> did you do any configs that affect SWD?
2022-03-12T00:37:08 < kakium69> or SWD pins
2022-03-12T00:37:32 < Spirit532> enabled swd
2022-03-12T00:39:44 < kakium69> "stm32 bricked recover"
2022-03-12T00:39:45 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: hackkitten, brdb, Mangy_Dog, bitmask, c4017w__, drfff, ds2, alan_o, tkoskine
2022-03-12T00:41:16 < kakium69> Spirit532: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/204996/stm32-st-link-cannot-connect-to-mcu-after-successful-programming
2022-03-12T00:41:45 < kakium69> I have never used stlink but there is something
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2022-03-12T00:42:21 < Spirit532> yeah no shit, I tried all that
2022-03-12T00:42:35 < Spirit532> it either ends up at: cannot connect, or me being physically unable to access boot0
2022-03-12T00:42:53 < kakium69> try jlink
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2022-03-12T00:44:15 < Spirit532> can it *keep* it under reset while idle?
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2022-03-12T00:45:38 < kakium69> I think it's not meant to keep it under reset
2022-03-12T00:45:53 < Spirit532> in a normal situation, it's not
2022-03-12T00:45:58 < kakium69> just connect under reset
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2022-03-12T00:46:10 < Spirit532> the reset pin
2022-03-12T00:46:10 < kakium69> you need to have it to halt too
2022-03-12T00:46:13 < Spirit532> does absolutely nothing
2022-03-12T00:46:16 < Spirit532> after it's released once
2022-03-12T00:46:25 < kakium69> interesting
2022-03-12T00:47:07 < kakium69> it shouldn't latch like that
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2022-03-12T00:47:15 < kakium69> voltages good?
2022-03-12T00:47:17 < Spirit532> yes
2022-03-12T00:47:42 < Spirit532> 3.276, 1.8003
2022-03-12T00:47:46 < kakium69> just use jlink
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2022-03-12T00:55:19 < kakium69> first step of solving debugging problem is to use jlink
2022-03-12T01:14:17 < Spirit532> I did
2022-03-12T01:14:18 < Spirit532> nothing
2022-03-12T01:14:27 < Spirit532> r0 sets reset low and keeps it there
2022-03-12T01:14:35 < Spirit532> but I don't know how to sequence r0, connect, and erase quickly
2022-03-12T01:15:02 < upgrdman> windows pros: is there something like a "hardlink" in windows? not just a symbolic link
2022-03-12T01:15:14 < upgrdman> some api im using doesnt seem to like symbolic links
2022-03-12T01:16:34 < upgrdman> oh shit, there's CreateHardLink. lol, nm
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2022-03-12T02:44:38 < upgrdman> zyp, msft is trolling me :/ ... i wrote that wrapper that wraps an ISO with a EXE to automatically mount it on windows. it works. but for some stupid reason, their api REQUIRES the iso file to end with ".iso" so i can't just give it the exe. but if i copy the .exe to an .iso, it work. or if i mark a hard link it works. symbolic link doesn't work. but if i make a hard link, i cant delete the link because it's locked until my process exits, since it's a 
2022-03-12T02:44:38 < upgrdman> hard link to the exe. ugh....
2022-03-12T02:45:25 < upgrdman> so i either have to waste time copying the file, or i have to manually delete the hard link after the .exe closes :(
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2022-03-12T03:07:16 < kakium69> LINX ceases services for Megafon and Rostelecom. Effective immediatelly :o
2022-03-12T03:07:55 < upgrdman> wuts linx
2022-03-12T03:08:22 < kakium69> https://www.linx.net/
2022-03-12T03:09:34 < kakium69> doing some internets provisioning
2022-03-12T03:15:32 < kakium69> idk what that means.. their traffic is priorized lower than others?
2022-03-12T03:15:58 < kakium69> maybe there is other provisioning agencies
2022-03-12T03:27:05 < mawk> they do interconnects
2022-03-12T03:27:17 < mawk> so these two ISPs will have to be connected to the outside world in another way
2022-03-12T03:44:26 < catphish> LINX is a large infrastructure in london that ISPs use to interconnect with each other, it carries a HUGE amount of UK traffic, but it's not anyone's primary connection
2022-03-12T03:45:59 < catphish> i have no idea what legal restrictions are on UK busiess with russia right now
2022-03-12T03:47:07 < catphish> oh, i think we've just boycotted companies owner by specific people
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2022-03-12T03:50:16 < kakium69> that
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2022-03-12T03:53:47 < catphish> ugh, redesigned... again. https://imgur.com/a/bnEwvIb
2022-03-12T03:54:35 < catphish> simple steel frame
2022-03-12T04:02:03 < fenugrec> do i see an alu power resistor in there
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2022-03-12T04:26:07 < catphish> fenugrec: yes, but it's only a placeholder, i haven't chosen a resistor yet
2022-03-12T04:27:37 < catphish> most likely i'll use a ceramic, just need to find a secure way to mount it
2022-03-12T04:27:58 < fenugrec> alu's have those nice mounting holes already ! hehe
2022-03-12T04:42:16 < mawk> do I need to connect ground to protective earth if there's 230VAC on my pcb?
2022-03-12T04:42:20 < mawk> or should it stay isolated
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2022-03-12T05:03:02 < catphish> mawk: that's really up to you / application specific
2022-03-12T05:05:28 < catphish> the high voltage should be properly isolated from the low voltage ground, so the short answer is that there shouldn't be any need to connect them
2022-03-12T05:05:35 < catphish> but i like connecting GND to PE anyway
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2022-03-12T12:23:16 < Laurenceb> sup
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2022-03-12T15:14:51 < mawk> .ua kraken users can get free crypto from kraken
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2022-03-12T15:25:28 < Steffanx> Ok
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2022-03-12T15:29:29 < specing> mawk: how much? And how hard is it to get?
2022-03-12T15:29:34 < specing> hi Laurenceb 
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2022-03-12T16:07:38 < mawk> $1k of btc apparently 
2022-03-12T16:07:45 < mawk> you have to be ukrainian
2022-03-12T16:08:04 < mawk> they have to had checked your passport 
2022-03-12T16:19:57 < specing> whoa, that's a lot
2022-03-12T16:25:31 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-12T16:25:45 < mawk> it's their response to calls to ban Russian users 
2022-03-12T16:25:52 < mawk> they don't want to, nor seize their coins
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2022-03-12T16:26:01 < mawk> so to appease public relations they do that, I guess
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2022-03-12T16:37:52 < specing> it'd suck to be russian these days
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2022-03-12T17:18:13 < Steffanx> How's it like to be specing ?
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2022-03-12T17:39:35 < fenugrec> what is ##stm32's fav waterproof multipin (~2-10) connector ? ampseal , metripack, DT ?
2022-03-12T17:42:19 < qyx> what for? M12
2022-03-12T17:43:14 < fenugrec> automotive / EV crap
2022-03-12T17:43:19 < catphish> i'm going to need a waterproof mulltipin connector very soon too
2022-03-12T17:44:01 < catphish> i've used ampseal a little, seems to work well, so will prob go with that if it's available
2022-03-12T17:44:14 < fenugrec> yea I did like M8/M12 esp. since they have panelmount options, but for wire-to-wire seemed a bit less ideal
2022-03-12T17:46:52 < catphish> fenugrec: what are you building again?
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2022-03-12T18:04:50 < bitmask> wtf
2022-03-12T18:06:36 < bitmask> i started watching the newest spider-man and realized i didnt remember the previous one at all so i watched that instead.  it featured mysterio and i was curious about his real story so i just looked up the wikipedia page. just read the second paragraph under the heading Guardian Devil and death
2022-03-12T18:06:36 < bitmask> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysterio
2022-03-12T18:12:55 < mawk> lol bitmask 
2022-03-12T18:13:00 < mawk> that's not for kids
2022-03-12T18:15:09 < englishman> fenugrec: accept only the best https://www.glenair.com/space-grade-connector-and-interconnect-cable-solutions/index.htm
2022-03-12T18:17:05 < englishman> automotive grade, if your auto is being attacked by russians https://www.glenair.com/military-defense-connector-and-cable-solutions/index.htm
2022-03-12T18:21:47 < qyx> you can always use the bestest RC model stuff!
2022-03-12T18:24:42 < catphish> wow tough
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2022-03-12T18:27:52 < qyx> I hate ampseal type stuff
2022-03-12T18:28:14 < qyx> cabling in cars should be proper, double insulated with connectors with strain reliefs
2022-03-12T18:28:26 < qyx> and not the discrete wire wannabe waterproof shit
2022-03-12T18:30:08 < fenugrec> englishman, heh, mil grade sealed USB
2022-03-12T18:30:14 < qyx> this is the worst of all https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1WjyFbEGF3KVjSZFvq6z_nXXat/Manufacturer-4-Pin-Way-Sealed-Waterproof-Electrical-Wire-Auto-Connector-Plug-Set-New-Car-Part-Automotive.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
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2022-03-12T18:30:21 < fenugrec> gotta be able to charge your cellphone anywhere
2022-03-12T18:31:01 < fenugrec> qyx, that's a metriplack clone, I'm sure
2022-03-12T18:31:35 < fenugrec> but pretty sure major automotive mfgs use ampseal-type stuff (discrete wires bundled / wrapped together)
2022-03-12T18:33:32 < fenugrec> *still use
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2022-03-12T18:34:04 < fenugrec> all the cars I've owned/seen are built exactly that way. even ECU harness is just taped
2022-03-12T18:34:53 < karlp> turns out auto doesnt need quite the specs they sometimes believe they do? :)
2022-03-12T18:35:32 < fenugrec> venty probably has opinions on that too P )
2022-03-12T18:36:21 < fenugrec> still impressive that a lot of cars here (north am) deal with winter road salt and rarely have wiring-related issues even after 15 years
2022-03-12T18:37:08 < fenugrec> everything turns into rust way before the "discrete wire wannabe waterproof shit" starts to deteriorate
2022-03-12T18:37:16 < karlp> :)
2022-03-12T18:37:38 < karlp> also, splashin and spray is massively differentthan immersion.
2022-03-12T18:48:23 < englishman> fenugrec / aandrew https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/03/new-pixar-movie-details-fantastical-story-of-being-able-to-afford-living-in-toronto/
2022-03-12T18:59:45 < fenugrec> can't tell if that is satire
2022-03-12T19:00:53 < fenugrec> also screw toronto. couldn't pay me to live there
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2022-03-12T20:12:55 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzAfich6mow I think that experimental tilt sensor is made by someone here?
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2022-03-12T21:27:10 < kakium69> englishman: how is life in canuckstan now as world looks the other way?
2022-03-12T21:27:38 < kakium69> did it cool down?
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2022-03-12T21:31:32 < englishman> kakium69: you have to wear a flimsy piece of cloth over your mouth from time to time while running errands, basically fascism
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2022-03-12T21:31:52 < kakium69> indeed
2022-03-12T21:40:25 < catphish> lol
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2022-03-12T22:01:35 < bitmask> sam zeloof is the man
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2022-03-12T22:58:34 < qyx> kakium69: what tilt sensor?
2022-03-12T22:58:52 < kakium69> did you watch the video?
2022-03-12T22:58:56 < qyx> I did mems only for structural health monitoring
2022-03-12T22:58:59 < qyx> no
2022-03-12T22:59:03 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-12T22:59:21 < kakium69> they use tilt sensors with antenna in fences that capture falling rocks
2022-03-12T22:59:43 < kakium69> some low energy thing ofc
2022-03-12T23:04:18 < qyx> oh I saw only the beginning, the anderson piano
2022-03-12T23:04:46 < qyx> yeah I have protos for rockfall detection
2022-03-12T23:05:20 < qyx> and a friend of mine has a company which detects rock fallen on the railway using sound
2022-03-12T23:05:28 < qyx> among other things
2022-03-12T23:07:35 < qyx> the problem is that there is not enough demand for such systems
2022-03-12T23:09:05 < Laurenceb> holy sheet the price of fuel
2022-03-12T23:09:09 < Laurenceb> its literally doubled
2022-03-12T23:14:17 < Laurenceb> based putin tbh
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2022-03-12T23:17:16 < Laurenceb> Greta <3 Putin
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2022-03-12T23:29:19 < Steffanx> And what you pay not Laurenceb ?
2022-03-12T23:29:46 < Steffanx> Per litre 
2022-03-12T23:29:50 < Steffanx> Now*
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--- Day changed su maalis 13 2022
2022-03-13T00:01:38 < qyx> here it was 1.55e yesterday
2022-03-13T00:01:50 < qyx> for diesel
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2022-03-13T00:17:08 < kakium69> >2eur
2022-03-13T00:17:44 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUpvJEbGz8w musics
2022-03-13T00:18:52 < Laurenceb> Taffs did 9/11 !!
2022-03-13T00:20:03 < Steffanx> So how much Laurenceb ?
2022-03-13T00:20:34 < kakium69> ##diesel32
2022-03-13T00:20:44 < invzim> EV ftw
2022-03-13T00:21:07 < kakium69> will see
2022-03-13T00:23:37 < kakium69> ev is the future
2022-03-13T00:25:01 < Steffanx> Here it was 2.15 qyx 
2022-03-13T00:25:42 < zyp> invzim, absolutely
2022-03-13T00:25:44 < kakium69> samesame Steffanx
2022-03-13T00:25:53 < kakium69> future is here
2022-03-13T00:25:55 < invzim> If you thought RU and Saudi was bad now, imagine how it will be when nobody wants their oil - on second thought, that probably goes for Norway as well :)
2022-03-13T00:26:14 < Steffanx> Diesel is 2.15 in Finland too kakium69 ?
2022-03-13T00:26:17 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-13T00:26:29 < Steffanx> And the gasoline?
2022-03-13T00:26:33 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-13T00:26:38 < kakium69> 2.15 yes
2022-03-13T00:26:43 < kakium69> both
2022-03-13T00:26:46 < Steffanx> Lol
2022-03-13T00:26:48 < Steffanx> Ok
2022-03-13T00:27:09 < Steffanx> I think it was 2.35 or something here
2022-03-13T00:27:14 < Laurenceb> £2/L in UK
2022-03-13T00:27:20 < Laurenceb> keeek
2022-03-13T00:27:35 < Laurenceb> >video of pro Putin trolls forming Z with tiki torches
2022-03-13T00:27:39 < Laurenceb> collision of memes
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2022-03-13T00:33:34 < qyx> any rfid hacking pros?
2022-03-13T00:34:39 < qyx> zyp maybe
2022-03-13T00:35:09 < qyx> is it enough to sniff SPI to the transceiver to get the locking key?
2022-03-13T00:35:24 < qyx> or is some magic involved?
2022-03-13T00:36:31 < zyp> what key?
2022-03-13T00:36:56 < qyx> the key is transmitted apparently XORed with a random number which must be read from the tag
2022-03-13T00:37:01 < qyx> so suspicious
2022-03-13T00:37:08 < zyp> I haven't dicked much with secure stuff
2022-03-13T00:37:14 < qyx> data block write lock
2022-03-13T00:37:51 < zyp> apparently the pro shit uses a secure element to handle keys and whatever
2022-03-13T00:37:58 < qyx> icode slix from nxp is the tag
2022-03-13T00:37:59 < zyp> but I don't know much about it
2022-03-13T00:38:16 < qyx> this is not pro, half pro only
2022-03-13T00:38:47 < qyx> something on the mifare level
2022-03-13T00:39:39 < qyx> considering the key is 32bit, I would not dare to call it pro
2022-03-13T00:41:33 < qyx> hm, tag to transceiver direction is load modulated, isn't it?
2022-03-13T00:41:40 < qyx> so hard to sniff
2022-03-13T00:42:22 < qyx> maybe that's the reason for XORing the key with a random numbver from  the tag
2022-03-13T00:42:41 < qyx> to make passive sniffing attacks harder
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2022-03-13T00:58:21 < fenugrec> or just an extra layer of "security" by obscurity, for good measure
2022-03-13T00:59:25 < qyx> the ridiculous thing is the random number is 16bit only
2022-03-13T00:59:39 < qyx> so you concatenate two..
2022-03-13T01:02:04 < fenugrec> I've bruteforced a few simple algos that worked on 32-bit seed/keys, and that is very bruteforceable. 16 bits is... amusing
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2022-03-13T01:13:21 < mawk> qyx: there are lists of keys online that you can use to bruteforce a tag
2022-03-13T01:13:32 < mawk> because apparently manufacturer tend to reuse the same keys
2022-03-13T01:13:39 < mawk> that's how I cloned the rfid tag that opened my building in paris
2022-03-13T01:13:45 < mawk> in took ~20 minutes to bruteforce the key
2022-03-13T01:17:30 < qyx> this is so niche it won't be there probably
2022-03-13T01:18:44 < qyx> did you clone the id too?
2022-03-13T01:19:15 < qyx> this shit doesn't have its ID writable
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2022-03-13T01:41:18 < Steffanx> What mifare shit is it? Our public transportation used mifare classic i recall. And it was already cracked by some germans before the new system was launched 
2022-03-13T01:41:57 < Steffanx> Took a while before they decided to pay a little more for better encryption 
2022-03-13T01:48:51 < bitmask> can you buy ito powder and mix it into a conductive ink like with graphite?
2022-03-13T01:56:03 < Laurenceb> https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRENDnet-TI-SG104-Industrial-Gigabit/dp/B07KM85VDL/ref=sr_1_50?crid=BIO44P5FQE9D&keywords=802.3at%2B24v%2Bsplitter&qid=1647129111&s=electronics&sprefix=802.3at%2B24v%2Bspitter%2Celectronics%2C47&sr=1-50&th=1
2022-03-13T01:56:14 < Laurenceb> anyone know where to buy something like this at a sane price?
2022-03-13T02:06:29 < Laurenceb> ideally I need 24V @ 1A
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2022-03-13T03:12:44 < Laurenceb> wew
2022-03-13T03:12:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/brainboxes/PW-323/15908200?utm_adgroup=Miscellaneous&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Networking%20Solutions&utm_term=&productid=15908200&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsrS2-PPB9gIVJeLmCh2i1gXgEAQYASABEgK1tPD_BwE
2022-03-13T03:12:51 < Laurenceb> digikey pwnd amazon
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2022-03-13T05:18:52 < LikWidChz> Any of you peeps ever use https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/970x728/512-04.jpg ?? I am noticing that at the outer extent of the sticks dont work, it seems only like maybe ~70% of the range towards the center is what these do.. is that anyone elses experience?
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2022-03-13T14:16:45 < qyx> Steffann: it is not mifare, it is nxp icode slix
2022-03-13T14:19:51 < Steffann> Oh you already said that. I missed that part somehow 
2022-03-13T14:34:33 < mawk> I don't remember having had to clone the id
2022-03-13T14:34:38 < mawk> it was mifare classic
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2022-03-13T19:11:16 < karlp> kakium69: thanks for that imatran voima, nice change
2022-03-13T19:11:49 < kakium69> some 2000s sound
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2022-03-13T20:14:07 < jpa-> "Pb-free lead plating"
2022-03-13T20:14:21 < fenugrec> heh
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2022-03-13T20:21:04 < kakium69> pb-free lead
2022-03-13T20:21:28 < kakium69> about that
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2022-03-13T20:22:32 < kakium69> where to buy special solder alloys in europe?
2022-03-13T20:22:47 < jpa-> tme
2022-03-13T20:22:51 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-13T20:22:54 < kakium69> ofc
2022-03-13T20:22:58 < kakium69> thanks
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2022-03-13T21:57:50 < kakium69> no special solders there
2022-03-13T21:58:48 < Steffann> hm
2022-03-13T21:58:54 < Steffann> what will you do about it kakium69?
2022-03-13T21:59:07 < kakium69> nothing
2022-03-13T22:01:33 < Steffann> what kind of special solder?
2022-03-13T22:02:37 < kakium69> something specific to alu&copper joints
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2022-03-13T22:03:40 < kakium6970> it's more like workshop soldering stuff maybe
2022-03-13T22:04:02 < qyx> there are fluxes for alu
2022-03-13T22:04:16 < qyx> or you can try soldering with mineral oil
2022-03-13T22:04:33 < qyx> google for mineral oil alu soldering
2022-03-13T22:06:28 < kakium6970> it's about removing oxidation inside mineral oil
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2022-03-13T22:07:42 < qyx> yes
2022-03-13T22:11:33 < kakium6970> mechanically
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2022-03-13T22:28:12  * farmr is intrigued by THAT!
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--- Day changed ma maalis 14 2022
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2022-03-14T00:22:49 < Laurenceb> any windozer 10 users here?
2022-03-14T00:22:52 < Laurenceb> I cant get email to work at all with thunderbird
2022-03-14T00:22:55 < Laurenceb> something seems wrong
2022-03-14T00:22:59 < Laurenceb> maybe a firewall or something?
2022-03-14T00:26:00 < fenugrec> hmmm. it's tricky replacing obsolete mosfets... modern parts have way way better specs
2022-03-14T00:26:28 < Laurenceb>  "connection was lost in the middle of the transaction"
2022-03-14T00:26:29 < Laurenceb> wtf
2022-03-14T00:26:36 < Laurenceb> same settings work fine in Lunix
2022-03-14T00:28:33 < Laurenceb> something is badly screwed with windozer network
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2022-03-14T00:40:18 < fenugrec> especially when circuit seems to defy comprehension https://ibb.co/FD4qcSt
2022-03-14T00:52:46 < BrainDamage> you put the cursor in a really unfortunate place
2022-03-14T00:52:56 < Laurenceb> hmm something is badly screwed
2022-03-14T00:53:07 < Laurenceb> I'm going to try some other email program
2022-03-14T00:53:25 < Laurenceb> Lunix "just works"
2022-03-14T00:54:44 < mawk> Laurenceb: which mail provider
2022-03-14T00:55:21 < zyp> fenugrec, uh, is that really ±24V, or 24V and ground?
2022-03-14T00:55:34 < mawk> I don't see any cursor BrainDamage 
2022-03-14T00:55:51 < zyp> mawk, the cross, overlapping some vertical connections
2022-03-14T00:55:54 < zyp> and C101
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2022-03-14T00:57:32 < mawk> I am blind
2022-03-14T00:57:34 -!- vit is now known as Guest8508
2022-03-14T00:57:37 < mawk> or is it on the + of C101?
2022-03-14T00:57:51 < mawk> the + seems to be longer on the right than the left
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2022-03-14T00:58:31 < BrainDamage> no, the black cross is the cursor
2022-03-14T00:58:44 < BrainDamage> the giant black cross spanning the whole pic
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2022-03-14T00:59:22 < mawk> ah yes
2022-03-14T00:59:24 < BrainDamage> it's done in programs where you want to find the cursor asap and not have the eye wander to find it
2022-03-14T00:59:39 < mawk> on windoz I push ctrl twice and it does some wavy thing around the cursor
2022-03-14T01:00:30 < zyp> so is this some sort of blinker relay or some shit?
2022-03-14T01:01:18 < BrainDamage> yeah, the RC gives about ~4.7s
2022-03-14T01:01:32 < zyp> Q9 looks like a current limiter
2022-03-14T01:03:03 < mawk> the RC of 470kΩ and 10nF ?
2022-03-14T01:03:08 < mawk> yeqh
2022-03-14T01:05:31 < mawk> what is D40
2022-03-14T01:05:33 < mawk> I don't get the symbol
2022-03-14T01:05:36 < mawk> is it zener diode?
2022-03-14T01:05:44 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-14T01:06:26 < zyp> hmm, I don't get how the left half works, there's no power source
2022-03-14T01:06:44 < zyp> unless it relies on leakage through D41 and Q11
2022-03-14T01:07:09 < mawk> yes I don't get that part either
2022-03-14T01:08:45 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, yes, that cursor is dumb, sorry - I didn't notice until now. Diode D1 at the top only goes to Q11 drain
2022-03-14T01:09:27 < mawk> maybe through the gate of Q11 zyp ye
2022-03-14T01:09:31 < mawk> that seems the most plausible
2022-03-14T01:09:41 < zyp> are you sure polarity of D41 is correct?
2022-03-14T01:09:54 < fenugrec> D40 is a large 2-3W zener. +/-24V I'm fairly certain. Intent is on powerup, to detect if voltage is below "nominal" and if so, activate autolink relay to change windings on pri transformer
2022-03-14T01:10:14 < fenugrec> but reverse leakage on a 4148 is nanoamps, that would only give millivolts accross R191
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2022-03-14T01:10:58 < fenugrec> same circuit without dumb crosshair https://ibb.co/j8psXtZ
2022-03-14T01:10:59 < BrainDamage> if you take +-24V with no gnd it's like you have a single supply of 48V
2022-03-14T01:11:05 < fenugrec> yes
2022-03-14T01:11:24 < fenugrec> (I haven't measured by assume D46 is a 24v zener)
2022-03-14T01:12:33 < mawk> so are you sure about D41 fenugrec ?
2022-03-14T01:12:38 < BrainDamage> the part on the left essentially has ~0V across it
2022-03-14T01:12:41 < mawk> Q11 is a n-fet, I don't see how it would feed the left part of the circuit
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2022-03-14T01:12:56 < BrainDamage> if Q11 is on, the drain is at ~gnd
2022-03-14T01:13:36 < mawk> and if it's off it's at the voltage of the zener?
2022-03-14T01:13:54 < fenugrec> I checked the board twice, but just pulled it out again to double check. I know I re-checked D41 more than once
2022-03-14T01:14:30 < mawk> have you checked both sides
2022-03-14T01:15:43 < zyp> I still think it's more likely that D46/R192 forms a current limiter
2022-03-14T01:15:55 < mawk> why
2022-03-14T01:15:58 < fenugrec> D41 is absolutely connected that way. Continuity checked
2022-03-14T01:16:10 < mawk> D46 is a zener
2022-03-14T01:16:15 < zyp> yes
2022-03-14T01:16:26 < mawk> it's used to give a lower voltage than 24V to the base of the bipolar transistor no?
2022-03-14T01:16:51 < mawk> why use a zener if it's just to limit current
2022-03-14T01:18:41 < mawk> and it's not a zener fenugrec ?
2022-03-14T01:18:47 < mawk> that would make things easier to explain
2022-03-14T01:19:12 < BrainDamage> if D41 is a zener, it may work
2022-03-14T01:19:16 < zyp> because V_D46 = V_Q9_BE + V_R192
2022-03-14T01:19:22 < fenugrec> (yes Q9 is really a NPN) I agree it looks like a current source, maybe the figured with the coil resistance to make sure it would turn on when V(pri) is wrong and therefore there's +19V
2022-03-14T01:20:11 < zyp> makes sense to have a current source to drive the coil if the voltage is varying
2022-03-14T01:21:05 < fenugrec> D41 is a small glass diode and I can read "148" hence my assumption (all other zeners on this board are axial opaque with a bit thicker leads, DO-41 etc), but yea I should remove it to double-check
2022-03-14T01:21:09 < BrainDamage> yes, that's a current limiter, it may also act as a all-or-nothing undervoltage to current switch given the application
2022-03-14T01:22:13 < mawk> zyp: so the zener is there because 24V can be varying
2022-03-14T01:22:37 < zyp> mawk, D46 is there to act as a reference for the current
2022-03-14T01:23:31 < mawk> yes
2022-03-14T01:24:07 < mawk> to have iC ~ V_zener/68
2022-03-14T01:24:10 < zyp> V_D46 = V_Q9_BE + V_R192 = V_Q9_BE + R192 * I_R192 => I_R192 = (V_D46 - V_Q9_BE) / R192
2022-03-14T01:24:22 < mawk> but if the 24V supply was really constant you could have a simple resistor there, or am I wrong
2022-03-14T01:25:16 < fenugrec> mawk, yes, but it's unregulated - just rectified + filtered, otherwise it would be impossible to "know" the voltage applied on the primary
2022-03-14T01:25:26 < mawk> I see
2022-03-14T01:26:50 < fenugrec> this area of the board has only 4 traces leading into it : +/-24, and the two-pin connector for the relay 
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2022-03-14T01:28:40 < mawk> is it multilayer?
2022-03-14T01:28:42 < fenugrec> I was hoping for a +0 going somewhere near Q10, but nop
2022-03-14T01:28:48 < fenugrec> 2-layer, through-hole
2022-03-14T01:28:48 < mawk> maybe there are things you don't see
2022-03-14T01:28:50 < mawk> ah
2022-03-14T01:29:47 < fenugrec> holy 
2022-03-14T01:29:58 < fenugrec> I just tilted the flashlight differently and might have found the missing link. standby...
2022-03-14T01:30:14 < mawk> between apes and humans?
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2022-03-14T01:30:45 < fenugrec> if I'm the ape, maybe
2022-03-14T01:31:45 < fenugrec> of course. I thought that was suspicious... the node with RD40, R190 and R193 is +24. There's the time constant on Q10 gate, and D41 is correct - allows Q11 to latch on
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2022-03-14T01:33:43 < mawk> ah yes
2022-03-14T01:33:54 < mawk> what is D41 for though
2022-03-14T01:34:40 < mawk> the right side of D41 is always lesser voltage than its left side, so current couldn't flow either way
2022-03-14T01:34:42 < mawk> or am I mistaken
2022-03-14T01:34:48 < fenugrec> so Q10 doesn't turn on from the current going through D46/R192 
2022-03-14T01:35:11 < mawk> ah yes
2022-03-14T01:35:42 < fenugrec> corrected schem : https://ibb.co/5Fzn69R
2022-03-14T01:35:43 < mawk> hm no I still don't get it, how can current come from D46 and go left
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2022-03-14T01:35:47 < mawk> as it's always less than 24V
2022-03-14T01:36:06 < fenugrec> D46 is not necessarily a 24V zener
2022-03-14T01:36:06 < mawk> ah ok nevermind
2022-03-14T01:36:08 < fenugrec> could be 4V
2022-03-14T01:36:11 < fenugrec> for all I know
2022-03-14T01:36:15 < mawk> I thought the left of D41 was connected to 24V
2022-03-14T01:36:24 < fenugrec> aah
2022-03-14T01:36:50 < fenugrec> Thanks for brainstorming with me zyp, BrainDamage and mawk
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2022-03-14T01:37:37 < mawk> which fet do you need to replace in there?
2022-03-14T01:38:17 < fenugrec> Q10 or Q11. For some odd reason they have custom numbering although I really don't see what critical parameter or binning they could possibly require
2022-03-14T01:38:45 < qyx> what are we reverse engineering?
2022-03-14T01:38:57 < mawk> the specs of Q10 will affect the blinking period I'm pretty sure
2022-03-14T01:39:03 < mawk> an automotive blinker apparently qyx 
2022-03-14T01:39:06 < fenugrec> I hope it doesn't blink !
2022-03-14T01:39:10 < qyx> lol
2022-03-14T01:39:11 < fenugrec> it's a welder control board
2022-03-14T01:39:13 < mawk> is it not a blinker?
2022-03-14T01:39:31 < fenugrec> nono - it's to select the proper primary winding on a transfo
2022-03-14T01:39:35 < qyx> k a little bit more current then
2022-03-14T01:39:39 < qyx> but same thing
2022-03-14T01:39:47 < mawk> what's the RC stuff for then
2022-03-14T01:40:25 < fenugrec> RC is needed because +24/-24 rails won't reach their nominal instantaneously. i.e. the decision must be made with a delay
2022-03-14T01:40:28 < fenugrec> as I understand
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2022-03-14T01:40:48 < fenugrec> qyx, yea, I guess the beefy IGBTs do a kind of "blinking" too : )
2022-03-14T01:41:01 < mawk> I see
2022-03-14T01:41:11 < mawk> well then the specs of Q10 will affect the delay most likely
2022-03-14T01:41:17 < mawk> but it's probably not critical
2022-03-14T01:41:32 < fenugrec> yea, Vgs_th is all I see. But not critical, so maybe they just binned them for Vgs to get the reliability right
2022-03-14T01:42:12 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-14T01:43:05 < fenugrec> but yea, one of the two is good so I can install it instead of Q10
2022-03-14T01:43:12 < fenugrec> Q11 is easy
2022-03-14T01:43:47 < mawk> Q11 doesn't need particular Vgs matching I suppose
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2022-03-14T01:53:08 < mawk> I'm not sure I understand the whole circuit, when Q11 is on the relay is on; and Q11 is on when Q10 is off, right?
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2022-03-14T01:53:55 < mawk> but when the capacitor on Q10 is charged, then Q10 will be on
2022-03-14T01:53:59 < mawk> I am missing something
2022-03-14T01:54:05 < fenugrec> hm if rails are +-24, Q10 is on, which hard turns off Q11 , no relay
2022-03-14T01:54:23 < fenugrec> if rails are low, Q11 will turn on, relay activates
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2022-03-14T02:02:44 < Laurenceb> hi, anyone any good with windows 10?
2022-03-14T02:03:21  * Laurenceb is still trying to get thunderbird email to work
2022-03-14T02:03:27 < emeb> being good w/ Win 10 is unpossible.
2022-03-14T02:03:35 < Laurenceb> outlook works with the same server
2022-03-14T02:03:49 < Laurenceb> I added thunderbird the the firewall whitelist but its still broken
2022-03-14T02:04:07 < Laurenceb> it says its connect to the mailserver, then it locks up and eventually times out
2022-03-14T02:04:13 < Laurenceb> *connected
2022-03-14T02:04:38 < mawk> I need to simulate it to be sure
2022-03-14T02:04:40 < mawk> I asked you a question Laurenceb 
2022-03-14T02:04:42 < mawk> which email provider
2022-03-14T02:04:44 < mawk> also which settings did you use for authentication, which port, which protocol
2022-03-14T02:04:46 < mawk> so it's the imap part not working?
2022-03-14T02:05:26  * specing grabs debian install DVD
2022-03-14T02:05:34 < specing> Yes I'm good with windows 10, who needs help?
2022-03-14T02:06:06 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-72-120-245.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2022-03-14T02:06:29 < specing> mawk: don't forget to ask for username & password
2022-03-14T02:06:35 < Laurenceb> specing: been there done that, works fine in debian
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2022-03-14T02:06:46 < specing> they're required for successful simulation
2022-03-14T02:06:56 < specing> Laurenceb: so what's the problem? Just stay in debian
2022-03-14T02:07:09 < mawk> lol
2022-03-14T02:07:50 < Laurenceb> mawk: its plusnet, weird uk isp
2022-03-14T02:08:05 < Laurenceb> specing: its a wurk project, has to run on win10
2022-03-14T02:08:11 < mawk> try to find detail logs of thunderbird
2022-03-14T02:08:17 < mawk> and play around with auth settings
2022-03-14T02:08:19 < Laurenceb> hmm good plan
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2022-03-14T02:08:38 < mawk> different port/protocol, and different auth method (ie PLAIN or CRAM-MD5) or whatever 
2022-03-14T02:08:55 < mawk> protocol I mean TLS or STARTTLS
2022-03-14T02:09:04 < mawk> I hope you're not using bare port 25
2022-03-14T02:09:08 < mawk> as ISPs often block it
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2022-03-14T02:09:30 < Laurenceb> I'm suing SSL/TLS, works fine on debian and with outlook
2022-03-14T02:09:37 < mawk> on which port
2022-03-14T02:09:40 < Laurenceb> also runs on raspberry pi ok
2022-03-14T02:09:42 < Laurenceb> 993
2022-03-14T02:09:43 < mawk> 465?
2022-03-14T02:09:47 < specing> Laurenceb: use virtualbox to run it in debian
2022-03-14T02:09:51 < specing> Laurenceb: then it works on windows
2022-03-14T02:09:57 < Laurenceb> the server uses no standard ports
2022-03-14T02:09:59 < Laurenceb> lol specing
2022-03-14T02:10:03 < Laurenceb> *non
2022-03-14T02:10:04 < mawk> yes 993 indeed 
2022-03-14T02:10:10 < mawk> and what auth method did you put
2022-03-14T02:10:22 < mawk> try other ones
2022-03-14T02:10:25 < Laurenceb>  "normal password"
2022-03-14T02:10:30 < mawk> or just read the log and see what happens
2022-03-14T02:10:31 < mawk> ah
2022-03-14T02:10:33 < Laurenceb> encrypted gives a connection error
2022-03-14T02:10:59 < Laurenceb> normal says "connected", then nothing before timing out
2022-03-14T02:11:31 < Laurenceb> lol I just got it to run on a discovery board
2022-03-14T02:11:42 < Laurenceb> using cube shit
2022-03-14T02:12:09 < Laurenceb> too easy, apart from when its windoze
2022-03-14T02:15:42 < Laurenceb> I see there is an error console in thunderbird, might be useful
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2022-03-14T02:59:09 < kakium69> do you dream of peace?
2022-03-14T03:04:28 < kakium69> it's been couple of weeks and my doomscrolling is getting out of control 8)
2022-03-14T03:06:32 < kakium69> I have relapsed into some weird state
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2022-03-14T03:44:52 < fenugrec> hah, haven't listened to this in a long time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L1sxibr8IA Ratatat - Lex
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2022-03-14T04:14:50 < englishman> fenu what are your thoughts on charest
2022-03-14T04:15:14 < fenugrec> corrupt turncoat coming back for more dirty pies
2022-03-14T04:16:37 < englishman> do you think he will win the leadership or the PM
2022-03-14T04:16:59 < fenugrec> if enough people forget he was plq for the long time, it's crazy enough it could work
2022-03-14T04:17:06 < fenugrec> *longest time
2022-03-14T04:17:13 < englishman> i agree
2022-03-14T04:17:22 < englishman> i think he will win PM
2022-03-14T04:18:36 < fenugrec> hmm dunno, pcc will need to get their shit together. I wish people would stop voting for either of those two gangrened parties
2022-03-14T04:19:15 < englishman> yes i think he will be able to draw some people back from PPC which will be needed
2022-03-14T04:19:58 < englishman> and an anglophone quebecois has this strange advantage over both domains
2022-03-14T04:20:40 < fenugrec> yea, he's probably still too french for many provinces
2022-03-14T04:20:52 < fenugrec> IMO
2022-03-14T04:20:57 < englishman> heh
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2022-03-14T04:21:28 < fenugrec> so maybe the prairies are going to be the ones to thank for digging up dirt on him... we'll see
2022-03-14T04:21:47 < englishman> that's the thing tho, i don't think it really matters what corrupt shit he has done
2022-03-14T04:21:59 < fenugrec> that is true
2022-03-14T04:22:00 < englishman> trudeau has done all that and more, and not 10 years ago. he's doing it right now
2022-03-14T04:22:52 < englishman> and so the cycle continues
2022-03-14T04:23:01 < fenugrec> also true, I'm sure we don't know the half of it (yet). harper was no better, etc etc. Just rotten to the core. I'm disgusted
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2022-03-14T05:29:33 < shadow3d> Hello, does anyone know how to install the openocd at ubuntu20, thank you~
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2022-03-14T09:05:36 < Xogium> how would you guys debug a software issue that is causing nonsense values on ADC on arduino ? I mean, is there even a way to find why and how software can mess up ADC on that kind of board, using jtag or something ?
2022-03-14T09:06:48 < Xogium> its really weird… That code was made with arduino nano in mind but friend's been trying to adapt to arduino micro and only that program behaves crazily with ADC
2022-03-14T09:08:22 < Xogium> like connecting another wire would sometimes change the value of another wire
2022-03-14T09:08:50 < Xogium> and this code's also a mess of about 6000 lines :p
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2022-03-14T09:23:06 < jpa-> part of the challenge in designing software is making it easy to debug and fix when it doesn't work
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2022-03-14T09:29:13 < Xogium> aye
2022-03-14T09:29:25 < Xogium> but this is a mess
2022-03-14T09:33:04 < Xogium> its also unfortunately the only code we found on internet to do what I wanted, or might as well be. Every other project based on that one, so they all use some mutation of that code or another
2022-03-14T09:33:36 < jpa-> so, create a new better one
2022-03-14T09:33:57 < Xogium> I have no idea how :/
2022-03-14T09:34:28 < Xogium> you'd think it wouldn't be that hard… but apparently it must be if people all reuse that code over and over
2022-03-14T09:34:40 < Xogium> all I was trying to make was a components tester
2022-03-14T09:34:47 < Xogium> that would print over serial in plain text
2022-03-14T09:35:30 < Xogium> printing over serial was easy, software already did that. But printing good values ? Nightmare. This code is partly in german and full of abreviations
2022-03-14T09:38:39 < Xogium> everyone based themselves off the transistor tester from website called microcontroller.net or some such
2022-03-14T09:40:12 < Xogium> also arduino micro is just weird compared to nano/uno or whatever, because of the 32u4 instead of 328p… they removed some ADC, specifically ADC2 and 3
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2022-03-14T09:40:21 < Xogium> so not the same pinout either
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2022-03-14T09:43:28 < jpa-> Xogium: so why trying to port?
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2022-03-14T09:44:22 < Xogium> because we didn't know that arduino micro wouldn't be compatible and this is the one I bought
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2022-03-14T12:54:15 < Laurenceb> mawk: I found my thunderbird issue from yesterday
2022-03-14T12:54:39 < Laurenceb> latest thunderbird on windows tries to open two TLS sockets to the server at once
2022-03-14T12:54:49 < Laurenceb> the server doesnt like that and stops responding
2022-03-14T12:54:55 < mawk> ah
2022-03-14T12:54:56 < mawk> weird
2022-03-14T12:55:06 < Laurenceb> outlook and linux/older thunderbird jut opens one and it runs fine
2022-03-14T12:55:10 < mawk> anyway the server should support it
2022-03-14T12:55:16 < mawk> it's a bug from the server
2022-03-14T12:55:27 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-03-14T12:55:37 < Laurenceb> I managed to grab the connection with wireshark
2022-03-14T12:56:28 < Laurenceb> hopefully there is some option in thunderbird to disable this
2022-03-14T12:57:54 < Laurenceb> aha there is cool
2022-03-14T12:58:08 < Laurenceb> too lazy to boot windozer 10 now tho...
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2022-03-14T13:18:04 < karlp> kakium69: thanks for that imatran voima, nice change
2022-03-14T13:18:51 < karlp> sorry about that old buffer
2022-03-14T13:18:55 < kakium69> yw again
2022-03-14T13:19:16 < kakium69> putty goes brr?
2022-03-14T13:20:25 < karlp> clicking in the wrong windows
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2022-03-14T15:41:48 < Laurenceb> ok wtf Thunderbird still not working
2022-03-14T15:41:58 < Laurenceb> now it never sends client hello
2022-03-14T15:42:36 < Laurenceb> just dns lookup and initial tcp handshake, but it tcp handshakes with two servers at once...
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2022-03-14T15:50:22 < kakium69> check your dns is fine?
2022-03-14T15:53:45 < Laurenceb> yeah maybe but how come outlook works...
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2022-03-14T17:11:27 < karlp> fucking silabs ssv5 updated the sdk, it uses git and git lfs.
2022-03-14T17:11:33 < karlp> they didn't fetch the new tag,
2022-03-14T17:11:43 < karlp> they just recloned the whole fucking thing again in a new dir and left the old one...
2022-03-14T17:12:00 < karlp> 3.2GB of it...
2022-03-14T17:13:42 < mawk> lol
2022-03-14T17:13:55 < mawk> storage is free
2022-03-14T17:13:56 < mawk> it's 2022
2022-03-14T17:27:17 < kakium69> is there compiler preprocessor define for 8bit system?
2022-03-14T17:27:44 < kakium69> if I want to make code that uses atomic operations only in 8bit system
2022-03-14T17:27:49 < kakium69> *atomic blocks
2022-03-14T17:34:39 < kakium69> any single define that could indicate 16bit calculations are not atomic?
2022-03-14T17:40:00 < mawk> probably yes
2022-03-14T17:40:06 < mawk> there are a ton of defines
2022-03-14T17:40:17 < mawk> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Common-Predefined-Macros.html
2022-03-14T17:40:19 < mawk> search in there kakium69 
2022-03-14T17:41:26 < kakium69> __SIG_ATOMIC_WIDTH__
2022-03-14T17:41:51 < mawk> maybe __GCC_ATOMIC_SHORT_LOCK_FREE
2022-03-14T17:42:12 < mawk> you have also __SIG_ATOMIC_TYPE__ which tells you which type is atomic
2022-03-14T17:42:15 < mawk> apparently
2022-03-14T17:42:24 < mawk> on my machine it says int
2022-03-14T17:42:24 < kakium69> thanks
2022-03-14T17:42:49 < mawk> but SHORT_LOCK_FREE is specifically for 16 bits I think, if you verify that a short is 16 bits
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2022-03-14T17:45:03 < kakium69> what does SIG mean?
2022-03-14T17:45:08 < kakium69> significant?
2022-03-14T17:45:19 < mawk> good question
2022-03-14T17:45:20 < mawk> maybe signal
2022-03-14T17:45:26 < mawk> the doc doesn't say
2022-03-14T17:47:58 < mawk> there is probably a better way
2022-03-14T17:48:09 < mawk> ah
2022-03-14T17:48:09 < mawk> hmm
2022-03-14T17:48:11 < mawk> I found it
2022-03-14T17:48:16 < mawk> but it's a runtime call I think
2022-03-14T17:48:23 < mawk> bool __atomic_is_lock_free (size_t size, void *ptr)
2022-03-14T17:48:26 < mawk> it's a gcc builtin, kakium69 
2022-03-14T17:48:32 < mawk> it will tell you if a type is lock free
2022-03-14T17:48:43 < mawk> but you can achieve the same with some preprocessor magic and the define I told you, __GCC_ATOMIC_SHORT_LOCK_FREE
2022-03-14T17:49:01 < mawk> atomic lock free = type is atomic without lock, i.e. atomic as you want
2022-03-14T17:49:14 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-14T17:49:18 < kakium69> thank you
2022-03-14T17:50:04 < mawk> or apparently __atomic_always_lock_free is better for compile time
2022-03-14T17:50:11 < mawk> it says the result is always a compile time constnat
2022-03-14T17:50:22 < mawk> so you call it like __atomic_always_lock_free(2, (void *)0) and it will be true if uint16_t is atomic
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2022-03-14T18:02:49 < fenugrec> kakium69,  if you're on gcc, atomics are broken on M0
2022-03-14T18:03:20 < fenugrec> other archs may also be broken
2022-03-14T18:03:45 < mawk> who broke it
2022-03-14T18:03:57 < mawk> here it's not using atomics, it's verifying that a type is atomic
2022-03-14T18:04:03 < mawk> so it should be fine
2022-03-14T18:04:20 < fenugrec> the _is_lock_free doesn't return the right value either on M0, leading to a false sense of security
2022-03-14T18:04:48 < mawk> weird
2022-03-14T18:04:54 < mawk> it's just a bunch of defines that depend on the machine
2022-03-14T18:04:55 < fenugrec> https://answers.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+question/265649
2022-03-14T18:04:57 < mawk> it would be easy to fix them
2022-03-14T18:05:04 < fenugrec> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+bug/1764595
2022-03-14T18:05:09 < fenugrec> "confirmed" since ~2018
2022-03-14T18:05:50 < mawk> they say they're going to fix it, in 2016
2022-03-14T18:05:51 < mawk> maybe it's fixed
2022-03-14T18:06:06 < fenugrec> it wasn't in july 2021. I doubt it's fixed.
2022-03-14T18:06:16 < mawk> it says for types smaller than 32 bits it's not broken
2022-03-14T18:06:21 < mawk> at least the last message does
2022-03-14T18:06:47 < fenugrec> yea I didn't investigate beyond that, didn't seem worth the effort. 
2022-03-14T18:08:20 < mawk> ~/gcc-arm-none-eabi-10.3-2021.10/bin/arm-none-eabi-cpp -dM -march=armv6-m </dev/null | fgrep -i atomic
2022-03-14T18:08:26 < mawk> the define says that uint16_t is atomic
2022-03-14T18:08:30 < mawk> but I don't know how much it can be trusted
2022-03-14T18:39:48 < kakium69> I have used atomic like 2 times on 32bit platform
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2022-03-14T19:13:49 < bitmask> blah blah blah
2022-03-14T19:17:09 < jpa-> blaah haalb
2022-03-14T19:17:25 < bitmask> that too
2022-03-14T19:17:32 < jpa-> the quality of chats is up 500% for the past 3 lines
2022-03-14T19:18:03 < bitmask> agreed
2022-03-14T19:18:40 < Steffann> Send nudes, bitmask 
2022-03-14T19:19:26 < bitmask> done
2022-03-14T19:19:35 < jpa-> Send money, Steffann
2022-03-14T19:27:54 < qyx> WLCSP stm32s in stock for all adventurers
2022-03-14T19:29:03 < bitmask> never even heard of that
2022-03-14T19:29:09 < bitmask> sounds fun to solder
2022-03-14T19:29:23 < jpa-> is that 0.4mm pitch?
2022-03-14T19:29:25 < bitmask> I think i can get my soldering iron in there 
2022-03-14T19:30:28 < bitmask> i bought an ITO sputtering target for $15, I wonder what its really made of
2022-03-14T19:30:38 < bitmask> i know its trash, i just had to see
2022-03-14T19:42:12 < Steffann> Accept cash, jpa-  ?
2022-03-14T19:43:01 < jpa-> Steffann: yes
2022-03-14T19:43:06 < jpa-> not rubbles
2022-03-14T19:43:19 < Steffann> Ah I might have some rubbles 
2022-03-14T19:43:45 < Steffann> But also other worthless coins 
2022-03-14T19:44:07 < bitmask> speaking of nudes, i was attempting to organize my pictures yesterday. I have like 5 folders of various backups with lots of duplicates and most of them aren't in albums and most can be deleted because i take like 10 pictures of everything and choose the best. moral of the story? I take too many nudes
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2022-03-14T19:44:44 < bitmask> deleted most of them, gotta keep a few :P
2022-03-14T19:47:05 < jpa-> when you see one nude of steffann, you've seen them all
2022-03-14T19:47:39 < Steffann> I only share them with tct 
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2022-03-14T19:48:52 < Laurenceb> keeeek wtf
2022-03-14T19:49:11 < Laurenceb> bbc just said that Putin came from the sewers of St Petersburg 
2022-03-14T19:49:15 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
2022-03-14T19:50:11 < Laurenceb> keeek found the original source https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putins-early-evil-baby-faced-26462473
2022-03-14T19:50:30 < Laurenceb> think they took this then added more lulzy exaggerations 
2022-03-14T19:50:32 < Laurenceb> dat url
2022-03-14T19:50:40 < Laurenceb> >evil babby
2022-03-14T19:51:00 < kakium69> he literally hunted rats to stay alive as a kid
2022-03-14T19:51:04 < jpa-> where was the shaker when the world needed it
2022-03-14T19:51:05 < Laurenceb> keekkkk
2022-03-14T19:51:36 < kakium69> I'm not kiddin.. times were tough apparently
2022-03-14T19:53:43 < kakium69> OL3 nuclear plant is in grid now
2022-03-14T19:53:47 < kakium69> ramping up
2022-03-14T19:53:53 < kakium69> 317MW atm.
2022-03-14T19:54:24 < Laurenceb> finally
2022-03-14T19:54:31 < Laurenceb> >reactor finally starts 
2022-03-14T19:54:39 < Laurenceb> >gets hit by russian cruise missile
2022-03-14T19:54:49 < kakium69> probs
2022-03-14T20:05:38 < bitmask> who invents a shaver that you cant leave on the charger or it will overcharge
2022-03-14T20:09:41 < mawk> my shaver won't shave on charge
2022-03-14T20:09:49 < mawk> because it doesn't want you to be electrocuted or something
2022-03-14T20:09:54 < mawk> even though it's DC12V
2022-03-14T20:15:22 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2022-03-14T20:25:34 < bitmask> what would be a cool 3d print that glows with EL. I want to try a non flat surface
2022-03-14T20:33:22 < Steffann> Buttplug ?
2022-03-14T20:38:44 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzxkJETW7lg spark plugs?
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2022-03-14T20:52:48 < karlp> my shaver just charges one every few months, 
2022-03-14T20:53:04 < karlp> I'd like it to have a slightly wider head, but it's battery life is amazing.
2022-03-14T20:56:06 < bitmask> i just got a third shaver.  my braun face shaver that has different attachments, a regular haircut type trimmer/shaver, and now i just got a manscaped pube shaver
2022-03-14T20:58:33 < karlp> I have this one: https://mt.remington-europe.com/products/MB4200-Endurance-Groomer
2022-03-14T20:58:36 < karlp> highl recommended
2022-03-14T21:02:21 < qyx> my shaver doesn't charge anymore
2022-03-14T21:02:33 < qyx> and also has failed wall brick
2022-03-14T21:02:39 < qyx> so I modded it a bit
2022-03-14T21:03:13 < bitmask> the manscaped has a ceramic blade which ive never seen before, as long as it doesnt break, hopefully it stays sharper longer
2022-03-14T21:03:14 < qyx> a braun whatever it is 10y old
2022-03-14T21:42:04 < kakium69> PaulFertser: online?
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2022-03-14T22:16:10 < PaulFertser> kakium69: yep
2022-03-14T22:18:46 < kakium69> internets work?
2022-03-14T22:38:53 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-14T22:40:00 < PaulFertser> kakium69: yes; facebook and instagram blocked.
2022-03-14T22:40:09 < kakium69> nothing of value was lost
2022-03-14T22:40:34 < kakium69> but the freedom of expression
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2022-03-14T23:30:25 < Laurenceb> anyone know how accurate setitimer should be in Lunix?
2022-03-14T23:31:09 < mawk> it's down to microsecond
2022-03-14T23:31:20 < mawk> there are other functions that go down to ns
2022-03-14T23:31:37 < mawk> like clock_nanosleep
2022-03-14T23:31:52 < mawk> why are you using itimer though Laurenceb 
2022-03-14T23:31:56 < mawk> it's old style shit using signals
2022-03-14T23:33:11 < Laurenceb> hmm I'm seeing ~2.5s errors
2022-03-14T23:34:41 < Laurenceb> over approx 150s intervals
2022-03-14T23:34:58 < mawk> what timer are you using
2022-03-14T23:35:05 < mawk> ITIMER_REAL ?
2022-03-14T23:35:42 < mawk> use timerfd combined with poll to be more precise
2022-03-14T23:35:48 < mawk> I wouldn't use signals
2022-03-14T23:36:01 < mawk> timerfd_create() to create a timerfd then you poll() on it
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2022-03-14T23:47:43 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-14T23:47:50 < Laurenceb> I'm using ITIMER_REAL
2022-03-14T23:48:11 < Laurenceb> ok it looks like this delay is a ~linear function of the interval
2022-03-14T23:48:29 < mawk> that's not a good idea Laurenceb 
2022-03-14T23:48:32 < mawk> use a real thing
2022-03-14T23:48:33 < mawk> try timerfd
2022-03-14T23:48:36 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-14T23:48:44 < mawk> the delay might not be linear on other machines
2022-03-14T23:48:50 < Laurenceb> I need it to stay aligned to real time tho
2022-03-14T23:48:54 < mawk> and even if you compensate for it you might have unexpected jitter sometimes
2022-03-14T23:48:54 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-14T23:48:58 < mawk> you can do that with timerfd
2022-03-14T23:49:03 < Laurenceb> guess I could have a "time server"
2022-03-14T23:49:04 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-14T23:49:07 < mawk> give it the CLOCK_REALTIME
2022-03-14T23:49:27 < mawk> or CLOCK_BOOTTIME if you expect the system to go to sleep
2022-03-14T23:49:32 < Laurenceb> ok
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2022-03-14T23:49:53 < Laurenceb> I'll have a little more of a got at this first, something seems off, it shouldn't be this bad
2022-03-14T23:49:59 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-14T23:50:04 < mawk> try increasing the priority of your processus maybe
2022-03-14T23:50:12 < mawk> sudo chrt 95 yourcommand
2022-03-14T23:50:14 < mawk> something like this
2022-03-14T23:50:20 < mawk> don't put 99 or you will crash the system
2022-03-14T23:50:43 < mawk> also having a preemptible kernel helps with timing
2022-03-14T23:50:46 < mawk> or even a semi-preemptible kernel
2022-03-14T23:51:01 < mawk> if you use debian/ubuntu you can just apt-get the rt kernel and reboot
2022-03-14T23:51:05 < Laurenceb> hmm I wouldn't expect that to be off by 2s
2022-03-14T23:51:14 < mawk> 150s is a long time to sleep
2022-03-14T23:51:19 < mawk> but yeah I don't know why it's so large for you
2022-03-14T23:52:00 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/VuNXm86s
2022-03-14T23:52:22 < Laurenceb> changing hertz (a float) makes the alignment shift
2022-03-14T23:52:46 < Laurenceb> its supposed to "tick" aligned to wall clock 
2022-03-14T23:53:09 < Laurenceb> lines 6 to 14 hertz doesnt even appear... wtf
2022-03-14T23:53:37 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm just experimenting, there is a linear offset effect with the rate in hertz
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2022-03-14T23:58:10 < Laurenceb> hertz at top line isnt actually hertx, its 1.0/hertz
--- Day changed ti maalis 15 2022
2022-03-15T00:02:25 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah this makes zero sense
2022-03-15T00:02:33 < Laurenceb> I might just swap to another way of doing it
2022-03-15T00:02:51 < Laurenceb> I could add a linear fudge factor to correct it...
2022-03-15T00:04:43 < qyx> you mean a second
2022-03-15T00:08:36 < mawk> have you heard of the space key Laurenceb 
2022-03-15T00:13:57 < Laurenceb> I only need ~1s accuracy over a few minutes
2022-03-15T00:14:03 < Laurenceb> atm its not quite good enough
2022-03-15T00:15:22 < mawk> try timerfd
2022-03-15T00:15:28 < mawk> maybe it will solve your problem
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2022-03-15T00:52:57 < Steffann> He won't do it mawk. 
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2022-03-15T00:55:16 < mawk> apparently
2022-03-15T00:55:24 < mawk> it would be too easy to solve his problem without an ugly kludge
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2022-03-15T01:05:14 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2022-03-15T01:05:27 < Laurenceb> I kill/respawn the processes and it all works perfectly
2022-03-15T01:08:08 < Laurenceb> Lunix intensifies
2022-03-15T01:09:46 < specing> Laurenceb: if you want to get your audio working, just kill pulseaudio daemon
2022-03-15T01:11:54 < Laurenceb> its not audio, its some packet data over can
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2022-03-15T01:17:42 < specing> Laurenceb: just saying (tm)
2022-03-15T01:19:46 < Laurenceb> heh
2022-03-15T01:19:58 < Laurenceb> hmm I'm wondering if this is a ""feature""
2022-03-15T01:20:26 < Laurenceb> the code is booted with a cronjerb, looks like it boots before network comes up
2022-03-15T01:20:45 < Laurenceb> maybe the processor is v heavily loaded, so it reduces timer accuracy
2022-03-15T01:21:03 < Laurenceb> the timer is allowed to run slower than specified
2022-03-15T01:21:29 < Laurenceb> when I log in and run it ~1min after boot it all works perfectly
2022-03-15T01:21:53 < Laurenceb> the % error is only ~0.5%
2022-03-15T01:27:53 < Laurenceb> wait I have a plan, I could measure and correct the time continally
2022-03-15T01:32:11 < Laurenceb> looks like this is some sort of weird lunix "feature", probably "fixable" with a ~20s delay at boot
2022-03-15T01:40:49 < mawk> use timerfd
2022-03-15T01:41:07 < mawk> timer accuracy doesn't depend on processor load
2022-03-15T01:41:11 < mawk> if you choose the right timer
2022-03-15T01:46:03 < catphish> is chip shortage over yet?
2022-03-15T01:47:36 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-15T01:48:03 < BrainDamage> you can't buy snacks at the supermarket?
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2022-03-15T02:00:36 < catphish> lol @ chinese advert https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Ha38b544e467048aaa10e14da3a614385d.jpg
2022-03-15T02:23:07 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4Auwi7_FA ukraine btr-4 in action
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2022-03-15T02:25:12 < kakium69> interesting truck
2022-03-15T02:29:27 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-4#/media/File:171201-Z-EL858-193.jpg
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2022-03-15T02:44:10 < kakium69> they have 200 of those vans
2022-03-15T02:44:38 < kakium69> 20confirmed loss/captured
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2022-03-15T02:52:45 < Laurenceb> ok after further testing, looks like timers are only inaccurate when started at reboot from a cronjob
2022-03-15T02:52:55 < Laurenceb> and they do meet the spec as they only ever run slow
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2022-03-15T12:08:14 < karlp> heh, cute, it's a lithium battery that looks like a cap, so you can pretend you don't have any lithium batteries: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cornell-dubilier-electronics-cde/VMF306M3R8/13665383
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2022-03-15T13:40:59 < catphish_> that's a weird little thing
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2022-03-15T13:48:09 < karlp> whee, convinced silabs to do 16bit dma instead of 32bit dma, halved my ram usage
2022-03-15T13:48:29 < karlp> had to manually construct dma descriptors, no helpers available for it.
2022-03-15T13:53:53 < jpa-> i wonder if silabs dma descriptor stuff has latency when switching them; the latency for loading new dma descriptor on STM32H7 is quite annoying
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2022-03-15T13:56:39 < karlp> hrm, I'm just setting up a permanent one, so doens't really bother me :)
2022-03-15T13:56:52 < karlp> I'm more annoyed by ssv5/eclipse not being able to understand the syntax...
2022-03-15T13:57:39 < jpa-> what syntax?
2022-03-15T13:57:43 < jpa-> isn't it just structs
2022-03-15T13:57:54 < karlp> both forms happily compile, but no completion of members, and the tooltip just says "syntax error" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/F3XBH.png
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2022-03-15T13:59:40 < jpa-> what if you write the name of the struct before opening {
2022-03-15T14:00:25 < karlp> yeah, I had (LDMA_Descriptor_t) ther ebefore the {} and it marked it in red as unknown, but would still happily control click to the definition.
2022-03-15T14:00:36 < karlp> just feels like busted eclipse shit really,
2022-03-15T14:02:33 < karlp> tried turning the dialect up to c++17 and c11, to see if that made it happier with designated initializers in c++, but now I just get "warning: ISO C++17 does not allow 'register' storage class specifier" :)
2022-03-15T14:02:38 < karlp> in cmsis_gcc.h so that's great
2022-03-15T14:04:48 < karlp> I think it' sunhappy with the union being a union of anon structs.
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2022-03-15T14:31:15 < Steffanx> What the actual warning/error in the question mark?
2022-03-15T14:31:27 < Steffanx> Or !
2022-03-15T14:31:32 < Steffanx> Idk where the error is 😋
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2022-03-15T15:11:54 < karlp> the ? just says "Syntax error"
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2022-03-15T16:09:51 < Steffanx> Oh
2022-03-15T16:10:13 < Steffanx> And nothing in the errors tab/dialog below?
2022-03-15T16:10:30 < Steffanx> Nevermind 
2022-03-15T16:10:38 < Steffanx> I dont want to know 😋
2022-03-15T16:18:24 < catphish> Powerlok 200, or Powerlok 300? :)
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2022-03-15T16:23:35 < Steffanx> 500
2022-03-15T16:25:48 < catphish> that's a lot of powerlok
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2022-03-15T16:37:21 < karlp> heh, tried turning down the tunables for the bluetooth stack.  get hangs now :)
2022-03-15T16:37:34 < karlp> guess I can't turn them down much...
2022-03-15T16:48:17 < Steffanx> What are you even up to karlp? Just messing around with all kinds of ble mcus?
2022-03-15T16:48:25 < karlp> nah, work work :)
2022-03-15T16:48:35 < karlp> bit of hobby overlapping of course.
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2022-03-15T17:00:45 < kakium69> karlp: interestings
2022-03-15T17:02:16 < bitmask> herro
2022-03-15T17:02:52 < kakium69> how is lyfe bitmask?
2022-03-15T17:03:03 < bitmask> not too bad, yourself?
2022-03-15T17:03:05 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2022-03-15T17:03:30 < bitmask> i applied for a job yesterday
2022-03-15T17:03:34 < Steffanx> What would too bad look like, bitmask?
2022-03-15T17:03:55 < kakium69> bitmask: what kind of works?
2022-03-15T17:04:27 < bitmask> stomach hurting too much to get out of bed? gf screaming? :P
2022-03-15T17:04:41 < bitmask> some kinda coding job i dunno, trying not to be picky
2022-03-15T17:04:50 < bitmask> just looking for anything entry level
2022-03-15T17:05:06 < bitmask> so i can get some experience and then choose what i wanna do
2022-03-15T17:05:27 < Steffanx> :)
2022-03-15T17:05:49 < bitmask> my stomach only kinda hurts today and my nose is only a little faucet like 
2022-03-15T17:06:33 < bitmask> i wonder if i can ever fight this sinus infection off or if antibiotics are necessary
2022-03-15T17:07:17 < BrainDamage> so you're saying the pattern is a sine? :P
2022-03-15T17:07:38 < bitmask> booo
2022-03-15T17:08:15  * BrainDamage waves ~~
2022-03-15T17:08:19 < Steffanx> Deja vu
2022-03-15T17:08:38 < bitmask> hmm wheres muh n-butyl acetate
2022-03-15T17:08:41 < bitmask> hasnt shipped yet
2022-03-15T17:08:47 < Steffanx> Sniffed it?
2022-03-15T17:09:11 < bitmask> injected it
2022-03-15T17:10:23 < Steffanx> Get some Red Delicious apples.
2022-03-15T17:10:25 < bitmask> and should i try to get into electroplating again? I would just need phosphoric acid to electropolish
2022-03-15T17:10:28 < bitmask> i have everything else
2022-03-15T17:10:38 < bitmask> eww, those are the worst apples
2022-03-15T17:10:59 < kakium69> bitmask: omicron
2022-03-15T17:11:17 < kakium69> not even kidding
2022-03-15T17:11:17 < bitmask> i think id be dead
2022-03-15T17:11:51 < Steffanx> Me too
2022-03-15T17:12:30 < bitmask> its gotta be a sinus infection, its only on one side and i have no other symptoms
2022-03-15T17:13:13 < bitmask> and sinus infections that dont go away seem pretty common for people taking humira
2022-03-15T17:13:13 < Steffanx> Imagine you had people to help you find out what's wrong 
2022-03-15T17:13:25 < bitmask> i hate my doctor though
2022-03-15T17:13:32 < bitmask> shes a condescending cunt
2022-03-15T17:13:40 < bitmask> and usually wrong
2022-03-15T17:13:48 < Steffanx> Can't visit another one?
2022-03-15T17:13:58 < bitmask> thats a lot of work :P
2022-03-15T17:14:20 < bitmask> really though i am gonna visit the dr
2022-03-15T17:14:24 < bitmask> i'll make an appt today
2022-03-15T17:14:25 < Steffanx> I dont visit a doctor very often. But I hate her as well. Her first question: "what do you think it is?"
2022-03-15T17:15:05 < bitmask> i went to the dr a week after i got this infection and she mocked me for wanting an antibiotic for a sinus headache and a runny nose
2022-03-15T17:16:14 < Steffanx> Did she make the "sine" joke as well?
2022-03-15T17:16:47 < bitmask> no, i didnt say sinus i dont think and neither did she
2022-03-15T17:17:31 < bitmask> but shes a bitter bitch that i could never see even attempting a joke
2022-03-15T17:17:53 < Steffanx> Awh
2022-03-15T17:18:03 < Steffanx> Time to find another doctor 
2022-03-15T17:18:09 < bitmask> she really not THAT bad but shes not good either
2022-03-15T17:18:17 < bitmask> i think i will switch
2022-03-15T17:18:39 < bitmask> im gonna ask her if shes always going to be condescending and rude and see what she has to say
2022-03-15T17:21:41 < Steffanx> Don't forget to film it
2022-03-15T17:21:50 < bitmask> meh
2022-03-15T17:25:41 < kakium69> what if I wanted wrapper for atomic block
2022-03-15T17:26:38 < kakium69> such wrapper that takes type
2022-03-15T17:27:01 < kakium69> and if type is non-atomic on the platform
2022-03-15T17:27:09 < kakium69> it does atomic block
2022-03-15T17:28:00 < kakium69> it should be compile time
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2022-03-15T18:11:28 < catphish> i *thnk* i'm decided on my battery box design!! https://imgur.com/a/JXlGePE - just need to add some supporting / retaining structures and the lid, but those no longer affect the main body of the box
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2022-03-15T18:17:44 < bitmask> do as you oughta, add acid to watah
2022-03-15T18:27:57 < karlp> well,this is fun.  if I include calls to xTaskGetTickCOunt() or what it seems to be undernath, the sl_sleeptimer_get_tick_count() the app will hang, pretty quickly, even after throwing out stuff to let it have all the ram it asks for.
2022-03-15T18:28:12 < kakium69> catphish: are you planning to beef up the substructure under that box?
2022-03-15T18:28:34 < karlp> the reason I was _using_ those calls, is because running int the debugger, it seems to be running 53ms loops (I expect ~50) and if you press reset, it gives you ~80ms loops
2022-03-15T18:28:46 < karlp> so that's fun....
2022-03-15T18:29:59 < catphish> kakium69: yes, unfortunately i'm *very* height constrained, so my plan is now to add additional structure *under* the box, by adding angles both to the tray the box sits on top of, and to the underisde of the box itself
2022-03-15T18:30:41 < kakium69> underside the box is da importance
2022-03-15T18:30:50 < catphish> it is for lifting the thing
2022-03-15T18:31:03 < catphish> once its in place on the platform it doesn't much matter
2022-03-15T18:44:10 < catphish> kakium69: thusly: https://imgur.com/a/eujr8cK (and probably some angle vertically on the outside of the corners too for lifting
2022-03-15T18:44:34 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-15T18:45:00 < catphish> this has a minor benefit that the angle at the bottom can mate with the angle on the car
2022-03-15T18:45:38 < catphish> nb. i don't love it, i'd much rather the box has a complete bottom frame
2022-03-15T18:46:06 < catphish> but... i just don't have the extra 6mm, things came in insanely close
2022-03-15T18:46:47 < catphish> i'm relying on the fact that the base will fully support it once installed, that's when it really matters
2022-03-15T18:51:11 < bitmask> im retarded
2022-03-15T18:51:21 < catphish> we know
2022-03-15T18:51:58 < catphish> i got a new access point today, now my internet is even sillier fast
2022-03-15T18:52:34 < bitmask> more than you know
2022-03-15T18:52:44 < bitmask> i just touched a hot hotplate
2022-03-15T18:52:56 < bitmask> burned the crap out of my hand
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2022-03-15T19:34:40 < aandrew> touching hot things iwth your hands is not advisable
2022-03-15T19:36:15 < bitmask> nope
2022-03-15T19:36:32 < bitmask> its gonna suck while it takes forever to heal
2022-03-15T19:37:19 < Steffanx> Got some free blisters?
2022-03-15T19:37:42 < bitmask> the skin was kinda hangin off in one spot, im sure there are blisters now but i have it wrapped up
2022-03-15T19:38:19 < Steffanx> And did you cool for a proper long time?
2022-03-15T19:38:43 < bitmask> ran it under cold water for a minute
2022-03-15T19:39:17 < bitmask> oh filtering is done, now i can finally heat up what i meant to heat u[
2022-03-15T19:39:29 < Steffanx> 10-20 min is what they advise here ;)
2022-03-15T19:39:30 < bitmask> cant type with my fingers wrapped up :P
2022-03-15T19:39:36 < bitmask> seriously? why?
2022-03-15T19:39:40 < bitmask> what could that do
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2022-03-15T19:47:16 < fenugrec> give you 10-minutes to reflect on your hubris
2022-03-15T19:49:51 < Steffanx> Lol
2022-03-15T19:50:06 < bitmask> heh
2022-03-15T19:50:44 < bitmask> people are assholes, this guy rated something on amazon (thiourea) 1 star because he thought it was thiourea dioxide and ordered the wrong thing
2022-03-15T20:00:10 < bitmask> this guy is an idiot, for miralax he first typed mirlax then mirax, to say the word cathode he says cath-rod (repeatedly)
2022-03-15T20:04:07 < jpa-> hmm.. i put 200 W to a 0603 10 ohm resistor; it is broken now but got no fancy sparks or smoke :|
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2022-03-15T20:06:06 < Steffanx> Hmm .
2022-03-15T20:06:25 < fenugrec> jpa reverse polarity tantalum caps would give better results
2022-03-15T20:06:51 < mawk> cath-rd
2022-03-15T20:06:53 < jpa-> have to try that next, good tip
2022-03-15T20:07:19 < mawk> I have LiSOCl2 batteries, but I looked on youtube and they don't make a nice fireball
2022-03-15T20:07:22 < jpa-> though i never remember whether the tantalum stripe is positive or negative, so it may take two tries
2022-03-15T20:07:24 < mawk> I tried shorting one and it just got warm
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2022-03-15T20:07:49 < fenugrec> tants, for an unfathomable reason, has the stripe on the "wrong" side, positive
2022-03-15T20:08:06 < mawk> why don't they just write + or -
2022-03-15T20:08:09 < mawk> we would be done with it
2022-03-15T20:08:09 < fenugrec> I wonder if there is an actual historical reason for that
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2022-03-15T20:17:34 < jpa-> in research lab somewhere: "look, i invented a new capacitor type; only downside is that it exploded if connected wrong way around" "you know what would be a fun joke?"
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2022-03-15T20:26:39 < fenugrec> "what, you mean like write '+' on the wrong side ?" -"no no, just a stripe. Sortof like russian roulette"
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2022-03-15T21:51:59 < bitmask> ugh, evaporation takes forever
2022-03-15T21:52:33 < bitmask> i should probably just purify this whole jar of root killer while im at it
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2022-03-15T22:01:06 < Steffanx>  Sniff it.
2022-03-15T22:02:12 < bitmask> ok weirdo
2022-03-15T22:04:23 < Steffanx> Lol bitmask  
2022-03-15T22:05:02 < bitmask> :)
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2022-03-15T22:05:24 < Steffanx> I love you too
2022-03-15T22:08:10 < qyx> mawk: shorting lisocl2 may cause socl2 vent
2022-03-15T22:08:21 < qyx> on oberdischarge
2022-03-15T22:08:41 < qyx> which will kill you either instantly or after a while
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2022-03-15T22:10:36 < Steffanx> *snorting .. gotta stay ontopic
2022-03-15T22:13:56 < bitmask> oh boy, halfway there with batch 1 of 3 (hopefully), 900ml down to 600
2022-03-15T22:26:43 < kakium69> what you guyise are sniffing?
2022-03-15T22:27:16 < bitmask> copper sulfate
2022-03-15T22:29:18 < kakium69> harmless
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2022-03-15T23:09:17 < karlp> only 20V? that almost sounds too easy jpa
2022-03-15T23:29:11 < karlp> lol, end user device with usb-a female on it. what fucking moron thought that was good idea: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003633194941.html
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2022-03-15T23:46:41 < zyp> karlp, typical chinese garbage
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--- Day changed ke maalis 16 2022
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2022-03-16T00:17:21 < bitmask> all sulfate filtered, just gotta evap now
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2022-03-16T14:24:54 < benishor> anyone got a proper openocd.cfg for stm32f411?
2022-03-16T14:25:43 < benishor> I get a weird behaviour when simply using interface/stlink.cfg and target/stm32f4x.cfg: run works, debug dies when trying to set the system clock
2022-03-16T14:27:16 < jpa-> the debug block uses the same clock as the rest of the system, so if you mess up the system clock in your code, debug stops working also
2022-03-16T14:27:36 < karlp> yeah, there's nothing f411 specific you'd need 
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2022-03-16T14:32:57 < benishor> I don't understand how I mess it up though. I do nothing special
2022-03-16T14:33:26 < benishor> and I think I wasn't clear: debug works. I can set breakpoints, inspect, etc
2022-03-16T14:33:40 < karlp> that's pretty different from "debug dies" ?
2022-03-16T14:33:41 < benishor> SystemClock_Config() fails when running in debug mode
2022-03-16T14:34:08 < benishor> <karlp> that's pretty different from "debug dies" ? <- sometimes my english is terrible
2022-03-16T14:34:18 < benishor> sorry about that
2022-03-16T14:34:49 < karlp> well, you can use your (functional ;) debugge to step into system clock config then right?
2022-03-16T14:34:51 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/FUNaBPUg
2022-03-16T14:35:09 < benishor> line 21 fails and gets me to ErrorHandler()
2022-03-16T14:35:21 < benishor> but only when debugging
2022-03-16T14:35:23 < karlp> and waht is the error from?
2022-03-16T14:35:37 < benishor> if (HAL_RCC_OscConfig(&RCC_OscInitStruct) != HAL_OK)
2022-03-16T14:36:08 < karlp> well, duh, I mean, hal reports why it will fail you...
2022-03-16T14:36:30 < karlp> you can step into too..
2022-03-16T14:37:20 < karlp> why do you have __ function calls, those look suspicious.
2022-03-16T14:37:25 < benishor> HAL_ERROR
2022-03-16T14:37:42 < benishor> that's what my cubemx generates
2022-03-16T14:37:52 < karlp> pretty sure you should set your flash latency _before_ you try and turn uyp the clocks too...
2022-03-16T14:38:19 < karlp> though if hal doesn't change to the clock until line 34, probably handled ok
2022-03-16T14:38:21 < karlp> not a hal user.
2022-03-16T14:38:33 < karlp> but step into hal_rcc_oscconfig....
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2022-03-16T14:42:19 < benishor> it fails when it checks the PLL
2022-03-16T14:44:04 < jpa-> pretty much no-one here can figure out HAL problems by just description, you need to yourself figure out what HAL is doing until you get to the level of the registers described in the reference manual
2022-03-16T14:44:15 < benishor> https://hq.scene.ro/clock-fail.png
2022-03-16T14:44:33 < jpa-> once you have "When I set CLKCFG1 to 0x1234 and I expect CLKSTATUS3 bit 4 to be set, it is not!" we can have guesses
2022-03-16T14:45:07 < benishor> jpa-: you're right. I will hunt for more info
2022-03-16T14:45:25 < jpa-> like in that case, it sounds like one of the PLLN and PLLM etc. values may be outside the allowed range
2022-03-16T14:45:43 < jpa-> are you saying that it works without debugger connected?
2022-03-16T14:47:39 < jpa-> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/issues/17   google also gives this but i don't even want to understand that mess
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2022-03-16T14:48:17 < jpa-> benishor: to me it seems like you already are running on PLL as the system clock source, and that's why it is stopping you from modifying PLL configuration
2022-03-16T14:48:32 < karlp> yeah, sounds ilke it's an error to re-do it, if it's not the same.
2022-03-16T14:48:32 < jpa-> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/blob/2f3b26f16559f7af495727a98253067a31182cfc/Drivers/STM32F4xx_HAL_Driver/Src/stm32f4xx_hal_rcc.c#L464
2022-03-16T14:48:51 < karlp> oh, hm, I wonder if oocd is turning on pll to be able to flash faster?
2022-03-16T14:48:56 < benishor> fml
2022-03-16T14:49:03 < jpa-> karlp: "run" should reset it in any case
2022-03-16T14:49:23 < karlp> it might use pll on hsi, but yeah, "run" should be resetting properly, otherwise everyone would have been reporting this for years
2022-03-16T14:51:49 < ventyl> 3 email accounts in my phone.. what have I done?
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2022-03-16T15:04:11 < benishor> karlp, jpa-: problem solved
2022-03-16T15:04:26 < benishor> I found some hints in an eevblog thread and it made sense
2022-03-16T15:04:40 < benishor> openocd messes with the pll before debugging
2022-03-16T15:04:52 < benishor> and the HAL code checks if the PLL is already set
2022-03-16T15:05:10 < benishor> if already set, it doesn't set it anymore and checks if the current settings match the desired ones
2022-03-16T15:05:13 < benishor> if not -> error
2022-03-16T15:05:51 < benishor> fix was to disable pll and switch to hsi between HAL_Init() and SystemClock_Config()
2022-03-16T15:06:03 < benishor> this will allow HAL to set the PLL correctly
2022-03-16T15:06:36 < benishor> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/stm32-clock-gets-modified-when-debugger-is-connected/msg3306944/#msg3306944
2022-03-16T15:06:51 < benishor> this is quite funked up
2022-03-16T15:13:21 < karlp> orrrrr, can you say a bit more about how you are running with the debugger?  
2022-03-16T15:13:42 < karlp> because "run" or any of the normal forms are resetting first, so this shouldn't matter...
2022-03-16T15:14:14 < jpa-> "continue" after "load" does have funny effects
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2022-03-16T15:14:16 < karlp> if you're running with gdb and just doing "load" and then "c"ontinue
2022-03-16T15:14:23 < karlp> then you're insane, and it's your own fucking fault.
2022-03-16T15:14:35 < ventyl> does that even work properly?
2022-03-16T15:14:39 < karlp> no :)
2022-03-16T15:14:39 < benishor> again using clion. I don't know what it does underneath in its integration with openocd
2022-03-16T15:14:41 < jpa-> yes, it sometimes even makes sense
2022-03-16T15:14:47 < jpa-> for example when loading test code to RAM
2022-03-16T15:14:58 < benishor> I didn't find a verbose flag 
2022-03-16T15:14:58 < karlp> sure, if you're loading some section manuallly,
2022-03-16T15:15:04 < ventyl> like, I can find corner cases, when I *don't* want MCU to be reset
2022-03-16T15:15:17 < karlp> ventyl: not normally after a _load_ though.
2022-03-16T15:15:25 < karlp> I mean, oocd absolutely doesn't reset by defualt,
2022-03-16T15:15:27 < benishor> I looked for the embedded plugin sources but it seems that is closed source
2022-03-16T15:15:47 < karlp> clion made of win then I guess...
2022-03-16T15:16:01 < benishor> the behaviour was fucked up anyways since cubeide worked ok by using stlink debugger
2022-03-16T15:16:12 < benishor> but clion using openocd failed 
2022-03-16T15:16:25 < ventyl> karlp: also, in 99% of cases, I do load while being stopped at random place in code, which would lead to corrufucked up state in two or three instructions anyway
2022-03-16T15:16:26 < benishor> so I would consider it an openocd fault
2022-03-16T15:16:41 < karlp> you can, but it's probably a cliion fault IMO
2022-03-16T15:16:51 < karlp> cubeide can use oocd too remember
2022-03-16T15:16:56 < benishor> karlp: might be. too bad I don't have the sources
2022-03-16T15:17:01 < karlp> well, neither do we :)
2022-03-16T15:17:03 < benishor> I would have to reverse engineer
2022-03-16T15:17:16 < karlp> more made of win then.
2022-03-16T15:17:19 < jpa-> it's quite clearly an usability issue, but for usability issues i would blame tools that actually try to cater to people who don't know what is going on
2022-03-16T15:17:23 < jpa-> gdb is not one of those tools
2022-03-16T15:17:27 < jpa-> and neither is openocd
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2022-03-16T15:18:08 < benishor> jpa-: ok, so clion is at fault
2022-03-16T15:18:15 < karlp> you can probably tell openocd to run more verbose and try and capture what clion is sending, but if it's using "remote" instead of "extended-remote" and just doing a continue, then it's totally a clion thing.
2022-03-16T15:18:19 < jpa-> i usually run "mon reset halt" before load also, because otherwise there may be weird DMA and whatever messing things up
2022-03-16T15:18:26 < benishor> I'll put a ticket if I ever get the time
2022-03-16T15:18:44 < karlp> (these days, oocd does the halt before load for you correctly, because that's a usability issue even for oocd)
2022-03-16T15:18:56 < jpa-> (nice)
2022-03-16T15:19:06 < jpa-> (does it reset also?)
2022-03-16T15:19:09 < karlp> (as long as it _can_ halt.... looking at you cortex-m33....)
2022-03-16T15:19:19 < PaulFertser> It does "reset init" actually, that is, halt and then the init event handler which can configure PLL for faster loading.
2022-03-16T15:19:33 < karlp> there's teh man who would know :)
2022-03-16T15:19:37 < karlp> good to see you PaulFertser 
2022-03-16T15:19:37 < jpa-> :)
2022-03-16T15:20:39 < PaulFertser> It was me who added "reset init" to default gdb-erase event handler. And gdb does erase as the first step of "load".
2022-03-16T15:21:23 < karlp> it was a very useful useability step to avoid needing to use monitor commands as standard 
2022-03-16T15:25:47 < mawk> so reset init is still haling in the end?
2022-03-16T15:26:26 < jpa-> reset init is halting at the beginning, and setting stuff by direct writes from debugger to AHB bus
2022-03-16T15:26:35 < jpa-> it doesn't run code on the target CPU
2022-03-16T15:26:40 < mawk> I see
2022-03-16T15:32:49 < Laurenceb> typical Russian family http://www.ugr.es/~gesi/Islam-Rusia4.jpg
2022-03-16T15:33:10 < mawk> e
2022-03-16T15:38:50 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WLtJDKXMCE musics
2022-03-16T15:41:43 < kakium69> Detroit techno sound
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2022-03-16T16:07:31 < Laurenceb> kekking @ captured russia army soldiers
2022-03-16T16:07:35 < Laurenceb> literal incel army
2022-03-16T16:14:45 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-16T16:17:59 < mawk> american techno doesn't exist
2022-03-16T16:18:02 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-03-16T16:18:06 < mawk> it's british and dutch
2022-03-16T16:18:11 < mawk> and maybe french on good days
2022-03-16T16:22:58 < kakium69> you are saying detroit sound doesn't exist?
2022-03-16T16:24:27 < mawk> yes
2022-03-16T16:24:48 < fenugrec> https://music.ishkur.com/images/detroittechno.jpg
2022-03-16T16:26:56 < benishor> put your hands up
2022-03-16T16:27:05 < benishor> Laurenceb: how are things over there?
2022-03-16T16:27:29 < benishor> or are you not in russia anymore?
2022-03-16T16:31:14 < Laurenceb> >Some topics on this subreddit have been known to attract problematic users. As such, limits to participation have been set
2022-03-16T16:31:22 < Laurenceb> top keeek the state of reddit
2022-03-16T16:31:34 < kakium69> bot wars
2022-03-16T16:32:38 < Laurenceb> >alert: a problematic user has entered the room
2022-03-16T16:33:11 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna change my name to "problematic_user"
2022-03-16T16:33:58 < Laurenceb> I feel stupider after reading reddit :(
2022-03-16T16:34:15 < Laurenceb> 4chan is also stupid but at least its ironic
2022-03-16T16:34:25 < ventyl> Laurenceb: how many engineers were already fried by your megawatt-class inverter?
2022-03-16T16:47:43 < qyx> :>
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2022-03-16T16:55:41 < tomeaton17> Laurenceb which subreddit?
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2022-03-16T17:21:55 < kakium69> https://pastebin.com/1qNAPt17 how do I get divident to constant fold? c. is a constant set by initializer
2022-03-16T17:22:00 < kakium69> *dividend
2022-03-16T17:23:53 < catphish> wifi really is getting good https://www.speedtest.net/result/12903705257
2022-03-16T17:24:40 < kakium69> I envy your latency
2022-03-16T17:28:28 < catphish> that 2ms is actually my wifi latency, the latency from my wired network to my ISP's speedtest server is actually 0ms
2022-03-16T17:29:22 < catphish>   64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=116 time=5.70 ms
2022-03-16T17:29:37 < catphish> that's my latency wifi + round trip to london
2022-03-16T17:30:37 < PaulFertser> kakium69: do you use SQM to fight latency under load?
2022-03-16T17:31:03 < catphish> 802.11ax to my router, gigabit ethernet to the street cabinet, 10Gbit Ethernet about 5 miles to the distribution point, 100Gbps to London, 10Gbps to LINX
2022-03-16T17:31:15 < kakium69> PaulFertser: I dont use anything
2022-03-16T17:31:31 < kakium69> it is what it is
2022-03-16T17:31:33 < kakium69> 40ms
2022-03-16T17:31:37 < PaulFertser> kakium69: SQM really helps as it's an advanced way to eradicate bufferbloat.
2022-03-16T17:31:58 < PaulFertser> kakium69: does it not go up when you're downloading at full speed?
2022-03-16T17:32:21 < kakium69> it rather goes down
2022-03-16T17:32:31 < kakium69> or stabilizes
2022-03-16T17:32:35 < kakium69> to 40ms or so
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2022-03-16T18:05:27 < kakium69> zyp, karlp: can I get dividend to constant fold compile time https://pastebin.com/1qNAPt17 ?
2022-03-16T18:07:15 < karlp> don't ask me c++ questions :)
2022-03-16T18:08:02 -!- witx [~witx@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-03-16T18:15:28 < kakium69> I'll wait for zenpai then
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2022-03-16T18:41:01 < karlp> PaulFertser: according to oocd docs, if you start in jtag mode without any taps, it will autoprobe,
2022-03-16T18:41:10 < karlp> but if you start in swd mode, you just get nothing? 
2022-03-16T18:47:20 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes
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2022-03-16T18:57:53 < catphish> what are the chances that these melt at the first sign of electricity? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002916359087.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5b4c26b3NuU9ZQ&algo_pvid=2d80ec3f-7292-476f-97cc-fe95f46916ea&aem_p4p_detail=202203160957174770662418896920059231231&algo_exp_id=2d80ec3f-7292-476f-97cc-fe95f46916ea-9&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000022865135697%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B26.63%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BGBP%3Bsearch-mainSearch
2022-03-16T18:59:32 < kakium69> nylon
2022-03-16T18:59:55 < kakium69> idk their contact looks super interesting
2022-03-16T19:00:22 < kakium69> looks like silver by color
2022-03-16T19:00:45 < catphish> that weird spiral contact is interesting, the connectors on my tesla motor have the same pattern
2022-03-16T19:01:09 < kakium69> it's like spring that clamps around the pole
2022-03-16T19:01:15 < kakium69> or something
2022-03-16T19:01:32 < kakium69> what do you plan to use only 200amps for?
2022-03-16T19:01:33 < catphish> either that, or a way to maximize contact area
2022-03-16T19:01:50 < catphish> 200A is a number i pulled out of my arse
2022-03-16T19:02:41 < catphish> the motor is rated for 100A continuous, 600A peak, the cabe is 35mm^2
2022-03-16T19:02:50 < catphish> now you know everything i do about the application :)
2022-03-16T19:03:13 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-16T19:03:15 < catphish> the OEM tesla connectors are rated for 250A
2022-03-16T19:03:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-16T19:04:14 < kakium69> that connector looks like legit stuff
2022-03-16T19:04:25 < catphish> ideally i want to use https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/654-PL00X-301-10M8 and https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/654-PL28X-301-35
2022-03-16T19:04:30 < catphish> but it's just not funny how expensive those are
2022-03-16T19:05:08 < catphish> £127 for 2 sockets and 2 plugs
2022-03-16T19:09:27 < kakium69> I need to reboot my browser gdamn
2022-03-16T19:10:03 < catphish> enjoy
2022-03-16T19:10:03 < kakium69> firefox just idk. builds up shit until it just lags all the time
2022-03-16T19:10:10 < kakium69> brb>
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2022-03-16T19:13:39 < kakium69> i'm bäck
2022-03-16T19:16:34 < fenugrec> catphish, why not go Murican with anderson SB175 
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2022-03-16T19:16:42 < fenugrec> unsealed though
2022-03-16T19:16:55 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/paddyisyoung/status/1503704042941333510?cxt=HHwWjICy7YW3nd4pAAAA
2022-03-16T19:18:41 < catphish> fenugrec: i need right angle, in fact the amphenol isn't tight enough angle
2022-03-16T19:18:48 < fenugrec> a
2022-03-16T19:19:26 < fenugrec> gtg, wind is good for kiting
2022-03-16T19:19:43 < catphish> i suspect this is what the chinese are cloning: https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Technical-Products/RL00801-35?qs=HwcZ7FPCDhpMnbUVFhoy7g%3D%3D
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2022-03-16T19:20:21 < catphish> only 150A though, which is a more common rating for stuff with 35mm cable
2022-03-16T19:21:19 < bitmask> now those are some crystals: https://i.imgur.com/XReIlyZ.png
2022-03-16T19:21:27 < catphish> ooo pretty
2022-03-16T19:23:30 < catphish> oh, i can just go up to 50mm cable and get a wide variety of 200A stuff like https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Technical-Products/RL00801-50?qs=HwcZ7FPCDhr2Zm%252B5MP0C9Q%3D%3D
2022-03-16T19:23:38 < catphish> that's much more winning
2022-03-16T19:25:32 < kakium69> bitmask: nice. why?
2022-03-16T19:25:52 < kakium69> what is use for copper sulphate?
2022-03-16T19:27:08 < bitmask> electroplating
2022-03-16T19:40:05 < catphish> i think i have a winner: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-vehicle-connectors/1243907 and https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-vehicle-connectors/1243948
2022-03-16T19:40:20 < catphish> i'll have to use 50mm cable for this part of the build, but that won't hurt
2022-03-16T19:42:07 < catphish> it's still going to cost £75, but more reasonable, and i trust it slightly more than the china branded version
2022-03-16T19:46:19 < karlp> how does that attach to the cable?
2022-03-16T19:46:30 < karlp> have you got a suitable crimper already?
2022-03-16T19:46:46 < catphish> yes, i have a hydraulic crimper
2022-03-16T19:47:32 < catphish> i think that's hot most cables this big get attached
2022-03-16T19:47:52 < karlp> well the first one you linked is for bus bar connections via bolts
2022-03-16T19:48:39 < karlp> looks like that part is in 35mm² as well?
2022-03-16T19:54:04 < catphish> karlp: the first part is the panel connector, it connects to a bus bar, the fact it says 35m,50mm in the space is nonsense afaik, because it's not for cable at all
2022-03-16T19:54:22 < catphish> the second part is the plug, afaik there's on 35mm^2 version of that
2022-03-16T19:54:41 < catphish> at least, not with the 200A 8mm contact
2022-03-16T19:55:14 < catphish> https://docs.rs-online.com/5da6/0900766b81542d88.pdf
2022-03-16T19:56:25 < catphish> oh, maybe there is... it would be SLP P B 35 BSO
2022-03-16T19:57:39 < catphish> yep https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-vehicle-connectors/1243944
2022-03-16T19:58:46 < catphish> it's only rated for 150A in 35mm^2, but since the actual socket is the same, that's probably moot
2022-03-16T19:59:05 < catphish> ooo it's IP67 too, yay
2022-03-16T20:00:12 < catphish> if it melts, i can always upgrade to 50mm
2022-03-16T20:01:38 < catphish> thanks
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2022-03-16T20:21:02 < kakium69> c++ pros
2022-03-16T20:25:48 < zyp> kakium69, why wouldn't it?
2022-03-16T20:26:13 < kakium69> c. is const
2022-03-16T20:26:20 < kakium69> it will constant fold as is?
2022-03-16T20:26:48 < kakium69> without any constexpr etc. stuff
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2022-03-16T20:29:52 < Steffanx> write it check the assembly and see what it does kakium69?
2022-03-16T20:29:59 < Steffanx> + compile ofcourse
2022-03-16T20:30:04 < kakium69> this is not ready at all
2022-03-16T20:30:16 < Steffanx> then compile unready code :P
2022-03-16T20:47:00 < catphish> how does one know if a relay needs / wants a reduced holding voltage (economizer)?
2022-03-16T20:47:30 < kakium69> if it has economizer it doesn't require reduced holding voltage
2022-03-16T20:48:02 < catphish> well yes, if it has one, it doesn't need one, i get that much
2022-03-16T20:48:28 < kakium69> you can measure the voltage and current when active
2022-03-16T20:48:40 < kakium69> see if it makes any sense to input that power constantly
2022-03-16T20:49:01 < catphish> i guess if i graph the current i'll see if it drops off sufficiently
2022-03-16T20:50:14 < catphish> the relay is rated as "4W (*Inrush current : 2.5A for 12V)"
2022-03-16T20:50:40 < kakium69> see if it is 4W when active
2022-03-16T20:51:07 < kakium69> 4W sounds like plausable power
2022-03-16T20:51:11 < catphish> so if it's pulling 300mA at 12v when active it's fine
2022-03-16T20:51:21 < catphish> if it continues to draw 2.5A then it needs a driver
2022-03-16T20:51:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-16T20:51:32 < kakium69> and CC driver rather than CV
2022-03-16T20:52:06 < catphish> why's that?
2022-03-16T20:52:30 < catphish> i mean, i realise CC is ideal, but doesn't ohm's law apply?
2022-03-16T20:52:35 < kakium69> it does
2022-03-16T20:52:59 < catphish> well i'll hook it up to a power supply, i'll quickly find out :)
2022-03-16T20:53:20 < catphish> my suspicion is that the controller is integrated
2022-03-16T20:53:48 < kakium69> it's just an auxiliary contact that alters coiling
2022-03-16T20:54:29 < catphish> oh, that makes sense
2022-03-16T20:56:25 < kakium69> you might want to have external flyback diode
2022-03-16T20:56:40 < kakium69> sorry* freewheel diode
2022-03-16T20:56:47 < catphish> isn't that the same thing?
2022-03-16T20:56:53 < kakium69> I think so
2022-03-16T20:57:48 < catphish> i actually have something better (or at least different)
2022-03-16T20:58:33 < catphish> https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/ncv8402-d.pdf
2022-03-16T20:58:57 < catphish> it's got some kind of magic for inductive loads
2022-03-16T20:59:04 < kakium69> yes its fine
2022-03-16T21:00:54 < kakium69> it's not magic it's just active clamping
2022-03-16T21:01:10 < kakium69> like virtual zener diode
2022-03-16T21:01:28 < catphish> indeed
2022-03-16T21:01:57 < catphish> the final challenge is finding the plugs for these relays, or i can just cut the harness that were connected to before and join the wires
2022-03-16T21:03:19 < catphish> oh ebay ftw https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5PC-MG651026-/164385767199
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2022-03-16T22:27:51 < specing> https://i.redd.it/gl32dcc2dcn81.jpg
2022-03-16T22:27:59 < specing> Damn, where is laurencer
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2022-03-16T22:29:28 < bitmask> I think I'm cursed
2022-03-16T22:41:07 < catphish> lol
2022-03-16T22:45:44 < bitmask> a liter of boiling copper sulfate solution exploded on me
2022-03-16T22:45:56 < bitmask> not actually on me but you know
2022-03-16T22:46:13 < bitmask> that was fun to clean, im actually still putting things away but i needed a break
2022-03-16T22:47:08 < bitmask> i think the most surprising thing is that with all the tons of stuff i have around here, i dont think anything was permanently damaged, only possibility is a switching psu
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2022-03-16T22:47:29 < bitmask> and im tossing the hot plate because i dont want to clean it
2022-03-16T22:49:55 < Steffanx> how you make it explode bitmask?
2022-03-16T22:50:54 < qyx> bitmask: superheated? without boiling chips?
2022-03-16T22:51:07 < bitmask> i must have damaged the glass getting the old batch of crystals out... after like 20 min on the hotplate the bottom just cracked off and it all leaked out
2022-03-16T22:51:25 < qyx> oh it just leaked
2022-03-16T22:51:42 < bitmask> leaked isnt the right word
2022-03-16T22:51:52 < bitmask> the liquid was out within a second
2022-03-16T22:52:21 < bitmask> but no it didnt actually explode
2022-03-16T23:12:21 < mawk> why is there a voltage drop over my fuse
2022-03-16T23:12:29 < mawk> is it mean it is half tripped?
2022-03-16T23:12:35 < mawk> does*
2022-03-16T23:13:08 < mawk> a 0603 250mA slow acting fuse
2022-03-16T23:13:10 < mawk> I believe 
2022-03-16T23:13:24 < mawk> I already replaced it three times, I keep shorting stuff
2022-03-16T23:18:34 < qyx> snorting you mean?
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2022-03-16T23:18:55 < qyx> this guy never stops
2022-03-16T23:22:00 < mawk> :(
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2022-03-16T23:22:48 < mawk> thanks qyx I almost forgot what time it is
2022-03-16T23:22:54 < mawk> it's line o'clock
2022-03-16T23:33:25 < Steffanx> wireshark
2022-03-16T23:33:32 < Steffanx> oops, better use the right window
2022-03-16T23:38:14 < mawk> are you wirespying on your neighbor Steffanx ?
2022-03-16T23:39:24 < Steffanx> im wirespying some ble device
2022-03-16T23:40:07 < Steffanx> works like a charm with nrf fw and some pythons.
2022-03-16T23:40:12 < mawk> o
2022-03-16T23:40:16 < mawk> which pythons
2022-03-16T23:40:19 < mawk> royal python?
2022-03-16T23:40:50 < Steffanx> much hated by mr dongs python
2022-03-16T23:40:59 < Steffanx> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fug_sniffer_ble%2FUG%2Fsniffer_ble%2Finstalling_sniffer.html that stuff
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2022-03-16T23:45:01 < Steffanx> Works pretty well to see whats going on https://imgur.com/a/u8pCvM9
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--- Day changed to maalis 17 2022
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2022-03-17T00:12:10 < Steffanx> Did go out and vote today, mawk?
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2022-03-17T00:26:02 < Laurenceb> today I drove a London Underground train
2022-03-17T00:26:05 < Laurenceb> funtimes
2022-03-17T00:26:17 < kakium69> damn
2022-03-17T00:26:39 < kakium69> you drove it like.. you were the train driver?
2022-03-17T00:27:13 < Steffanx> Cant get his proper driver's license, is allowed to drive a train. Something is wrong there :P
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2022-03-17T01:10:07 < kakium69> he probs stole the train?
2022-03-17T01:10:21 < kakium69> I mean borrowed
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2022-03-17T01:20:08 < Laurenceb> its ok there were no passengers onboard
2022-03-17T01:20:18 < Laurenceb> just going between depots 
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2022-03-17T01:27:43 < kakium69> this is for referrence to UX design of bullet train?
2022-03-17T01:32:56 < mawk> I forgot Steffanx 
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2022-03-17T02:00:23 < Laurenceb> kakium69: just testing some onboard hardware, a hyperloop side project
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2022-03-17T03:31:19 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/9iNDDP5.png
2022-03-17T03:31:21 < bitmask> nice phosphor
2022-03-17T03:31:46 < bitmask> its a blue light behind it
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2022-03-17T10:47:17 < benishor> I have a dilemma. I would like to persist some configuration data in a stm32f411ce, somewhere around 1K worth of data. but the sectors are huge and I feel bad for wasting a full sector for that. on the other hand I wouldn't want to add an external eeprom or nvram. any advices?
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2022-03-17T10:53:16 < ventyl> use some form of flash-filesystem. you will use full sector capacity and implement wear-leveling
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2022-03-17T10:59:46 < benishor> ventyl: where can I find more info on that?
2022-03-17T11:05:21 < benishor> it looks like some candidates are LittleFS and SpiFFS. will check those out
2022-03-17T11:05:34 < ventyl> benishor: while IDK your stack, start by googling something like "flash write wear leveling"
2022-03-17T11:07:09 < Xogium> I've toyed a bit with littlefs v2 and honestly it isn't too bad. They also explain the design very nicely
2022-03-17T11:07:38 < Xogium> I could even expose it to linux with a fuse filesystem, and copy files onto my board, and remove some
2022-03-17T11:10:16 < ventyl> that's cool
2022-03-17T11:10:33 < benishor> thank you for the info, guys
2022-03-17T11:18:59 < karlp> benishor: i2c eeproms are super cheap too fwiw...
2022-03-17T11:19:13 < karlp> or, switch to L series, that all have eeprom built in.
2022-03-17T11:19:54 < benishor> karlp: that's a good idea, thanks
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2022-03-17T11:30:26 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/EEPROM_FMD-Fremont-Micro-Devices-FT24C32A-ETR-B_C417364.html for instance
2022-03-17T11:31:17 < karlp> or https://lcsc.com/product-detail/EEPROM_ROHM-Semicon-BR24T08FJ-WE2_C123061.html
2022-03-17T11:32:54 < karlp> https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/M24C08-FMN6TP is even on brand...
2022-03-17T11:34:27 < benishor> damn they're cheap
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2022-03-17T11:34:48 < karlp> yeah, it can really be like, "fuck writing softwware, just plonk one down..."
2022-03-17T11:35:29 < karlp> the common footprints are also all pin compatible too.
2022-03-17T11:35:48 < karlp> if you want to get into silly packages, you can get them in like 4ball wlcsp's from people too :)
2022-03-17T11:36:16 < benishor> nah, I'm good with sop :)
2022-03-17T11:37:00 < karlp> the large variation in part naming is things like supply current, and operating voltage ranges...
2022-03-17T11:37:33 < karlp> not entirely relevant for stm32, that all have uniquedis, but you can also buy ones that have a preprogrammed section with OUI64's and shit
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2022-03-17T11:49:35 < benishor> not for me
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2022-03-17T13:13:16 < josuah> <karlp> i2c eeproms [...]
2022-03-17T13:13:27 < josuah> did you mean SPI?
2022-03-17T13:15:02 < josuah> > Two-Wire Serial [...] I²C Bus [...]
2022-03-17T13:15:14 < josuah> looks like I²C that's right
2022-03-17T13:15:22 < josuah> I learned something new
2022-03-17T13:15:49 < benishor> there are both i2c and spi eeprom/flash/sram/nvram/etc chips
2022-03-17T13:16:10 < karlp> you can ataully get them in one wire, microwire, i2c, spi, spi half duplex, pretty much any interface you can imagine.
2022-03-17T13:16:11 < benishor> spi would give you faster speeds, whereas i2c would give you convenience
2022-03-17T13:16:39 < karlp> spi is more wires, really, ifyou're talking about an eeprom at least :)
2022-03-17T13:16:54 < karlp> you might get faster _transfers_ but you are still limited by the eeprom's speed itself really.
2022-03-17T13:18:19 < benishor> ^
2022-03-17T13:18:45 < benishor> I was refering to a more general picture 
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2022-03-17T13:24:55 < karlp> diodes.com still down... 
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2022-03-17T14:22:51 < josuah> http://web.archive.org/web/diodes.com to the rescue? cannot place an order ofc, but works for browsing and preparing links to item
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2022-03-17T14:52:56 < karlp> more just kinda funny hwo long it's been down now already :)
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2022-03-17T18:25:23 < kakium69> Putin has announced the purge to begin
2022-03-17T18:28:19 < Xogium> kakium69: meaning ?
2022-03-17T18:30:01 < mawk> purging traitors among the russian population
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2022-03-17T18:32:28 < Xogium> charming
2022-03-17T18:32:41 < Xogium> yeah I'm completely sarcastic
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2022-03-17T19:34:39 < mawk> I should start a medical recycling company to get all the rejects from pillz factory
2022-03-17T19:34:52 < mawk> the guys are cyclamed are probably getting high all day
2022-03-17T19:35:05 < mawk> that's my life plan from now on
2022-03-17T19:55:22 < machinehum> Route 0.7mm ball pitch w/o hdi?
2022-03-17T19:55:44 < machinehum> Onsemi is actually decent I got into their portal pretty fast
2022-03-17T19:55:48 < machinehum> Access to all their sensors
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2022-03-17T20:22:09 < Steffanx> soo did you do your duty yesterday mawk?
2022-03-17T20:25:41 < mawk> so Steffanx it was too late when I rememberd
2022-03-17T20:28:17 < Steffanx> Rutty will take your dutchness
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2022-03-17T20:38:14 < mawk> :(((
2022-03-17T20:38:18 < mawk> it's fine Steffanx 
2022-03-17T20:38:25 < mawk> I didn't use to vote in french elections either
2022-03-17T20:38:32 < mawk> it's too annoying to go outside and wait in line
2022-03-17T20:38:37 < mawk> I voted only on the presidential election
2022-03-17T20:38:40 < mawk> for Marine Le Pen of course
2022-03-17T20:38:43 < mawk> Xogium's favorite
2022-03-17T20:41:44 < Xogium> ha ha ha
2022-03-17T21:15:55 < PaulFertser> I knew a pharmacy owner who returned a pack of pills to the seller telling them because the drug addicts regulars complained the new pills were no good for their chemical processes.
2022-03-17T21:17:13 < mawk> lol
2022-03-17T21:17:28 < mawk> yeah if you add gelatine or shit you can't separate it doesn't work anymore
2022-03-17T21:17:48 < mawk> and the chemical process my very well be a "remove paracetamol" process, i.e. something they need to do to not die from taking it
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2022-03-17T21:32:02 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFOD2wyIVIAcdOlm.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-03-17T21:44:49 < Laurenceb> Vladimir Putin never called me incel!
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2022-03-17T21:47:46 < jpa-> Laurenceb: are you actually in celibacy or just otherwise incel-level cringe?
2022-03-17T22:04:36 < Laurenceb> I'm just a shitposter
2022-03-17T22:04:37 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFOCqN16aMAgzXX8.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig
2022-03-17T22:06:06 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFOCrgYkXoAE3nWL.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-03-17T22:06:11 < Laurenceb> ^orbital sides
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2022-03-17T22:43:12 < qyx> machinehum: lpddr3 is 0.8x0.65 and it was fine, I assume 0.7 mm is ok too
2022-03-17T22:43:33 < qyx> 0.2/0.4 via, 0.1/0.1 track/clearance
2022-03-17T23:01:06 < Laurenceb> they are on to me https://www.cbsnews.com/news/incel-threat-secret-service-report/
2022-03-17T23:02:02 < machinehum> qyx: Are those specs not hdi?
2022-03-17T23:04:15 < tct> hmpf... I´m looking for a compute module for a project. but something that is more proper industrial from a proper company and not RaspberryPi. any recommendations?
2022-03-17T23:04:26 < tct> ideally something Cortex-A based
2022-03-17T23:05:46 < Xogium> tct: what kind of specs ?
2022-03-17T23:06:14 < Xogium> as in, would 512 mb ram be good ?
2022-03-17T23:06:15 < machinehum> tct: Have you considered using a Raspberry PI?
2022-03-17T23:06:34 < tct> Xogium, none really. just something that is designed to run 24/7 in 0C to 50C type deals. something basic capable of running something like Yocto with 1 to 4GB of RAM
2022-03-17T23:06:42 < machinehum> https://www.acmesystems.it/
2022-03-17T23:06:43 < tct> Xogium, 512mb might actually cut it too, yes.
2022-03-17T23:06:59 < tct> machinehum, I hope you were trolling with the RPI question :D
2022-03-17T23:07:24 < Xogium> tct: hmmm
2022-03-17T23:07:34 < jpa-> what's wrong with rpi cm?
2022-03-17T23:08:02 < Xogium> maybe this ?
2022-03-17T23:08:04 < Xogium> https://www.seeedstudio.com/Seeed-SoM-STM32MP157C-p-4500.html
2022-03-17T23:08:24 < tct> might need something that comes with certs and typical industrial business stuff like 10 year delivery contracts
2022-03-17T23:08:40 < tct> I´m more looking for something like this: https://www.enclustra.com/en/products/system-on-chip-modules/
2022-03-17T23:08:56 < tct> but then ideally with just a Cortex-A 
2022-03-17T23:08:57 < Xogium> or this one
2022-03-17T23:08:59 < Xogium> https://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd32mp15x/
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2022-03-17T23:09:23 < Xogium> you don't really need to use the cortex m4 in there but… yeah
2022-03-17T23:09:27 < tct> Xogium, thanks mate. I´m looking for something more beefy in terms of computational capabilities. need to run Linux.
2022-03-17T23:09:33 < Xogium> don't really know many SoM or SiP
2022-03-17T23:09:39 < Xogium> it does
2022-03-17T23:09:41 < tct> ooh
2022-03-17T23:09:43 < jpa-> ok, 10 year availibilty could be pretty limiting spec
2022-03-17T23:09:49 < tct> Xogium, I see now - an A7.
2022-03-17T23:10:04 < machinehum> What was that company that copackaged ram and SoC and shit
2022-03-17T23:10:06 < tct> jpa-, yeah. this is just initial scouting. never used compute modules before so need to get a feel 
2022-03-17T23:10:08 < machinehum> Octavia or something?
2022-03-17T23:10:16 < tct> machinehum, yeah Xogium just linked them
2022-03-17T23:10:28 < tct> Xogium, that might actually be a very viable solution from the tech specs.
2022-03-17T23:10:37 < machinehum> Yeahhhh that guy
2022-03-17T23:10:46 < machinehum> I've never used it, looks decent
2022-03-17T23:10:51 < Xogium> worth noting the first one I sent is reall a SoM that fits with pins so if you are concerned about vibrations it might be better to ghet the SiP instead
2022-03-17T23:10:51 < englishman> Yes octavo is good like that tectu
2022-03-17T23:11:04 < tct> englishman, do you have personal experience with them?
2022-03-17T23:11:09 < machinehum> Ball pitch 1mm is nice
2022-03-17T23:11:11 < englishman> Commercial temp only but the rest is good
2022-03-17T23:11:17 < englishman> Talked to a salesman.
2022-03-17T23:11:25 < Xogium> mmh no they have industrial temp too
2022-03-17T23:11:27 < tct> Xogium, not concerned about vibration. this will eventually be mounted on a DIN rail in a distribution box
2022-03-17T23:11:44 < tct> englishman, did you actually use it in the end?
2022-03-17T23:11:44 < englishman> I forget if they have longevity but the ST core does.
2022-03-17T23:11:49 < machinehum> https://octavosystems.com/octavosystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/C-SiP_demo.jpg
2022-03-17T23:12:00 < tct> lol that ^
2022-03-17T23:12:00 < Xogium> though I don't think seeed's has industrial temp
2022-03-17T23:12:04 < machinehum> tct: deadbug you're entire project
2022-03-17T23:12:11 < tct> machinehum, thatś awesome too
2022-03-17T23:12:15 < machinehum> Don't be a pussy
2022-03-17T23:12:20 < machinehum> Industrial rated for sure
2022-03-17T23:12:22 < tct> I might give them a call
2022-03-17T23:13:15 < tct> alternatively I was opting for something like an Intel Cyclone V. but we just got an order of Cyclone III devices cancelled that was on back-order for months. cancellation reason: increased demand by the US defense ministry. go figure.
2022-03-17T23:13:21 < jpa-> you voluntarily talk on phone? o_O
2022-03-17T23:13:28 < Xogium> but yeah there are 2 version of that SiP from octavo, the one that has
2022-03-17T23:13:49 < tct> does anybody have some pricing info on that octavo solution/
2022-03-17T23:14:07 < Xogium> OSD32MP157C-512M-BAA is commercial grade temp and OSD32MP157C-512M-IAA is industrial iirc
2022-03-17T23:14:08 < tct> oh, mouser & digikey carries some of them
2022-03-17T23:14:40 < machinehum> Good thing they're OUT OF STOCK
2022-03-17T23:14:51 < tct> of course they are...
2022-03-17T23:15:40 < Xogium> they migtht be out of stock on mouser or such but… I'd still try to reach octavo ;)
2022-03-17T23:15:49 < Xogium> and I can't type today
2022-03-17T23:16:27 < Xogium> also st has made a new chip in that mp1 family -- how'd I know that ? I found the initial upstreaming work for linux in 5.16 :D
2022-03-17T23:16:39 < Xogium> the SoC hasn't even yet been put out on the market
2022-03-17T23:17:09 < Xogium> stm32mp13
2022-03-17T23:17:26 < machinehum> what
2022-03-17T23:17:29 < Xogium> seems a bit less powerful. I think, at least. They seem to have a single cortex-a core
2022-03-17T23:17:44 < Xogium> but 2 ethernet ports, and some other stuff
2022-03-17T23:18:43 < machinehum> I hate all these cunty companies that don't upstream their drivers
2022-03-17T23:18:51 < Xogium> heh
2022-03-17T23:18:54 < Xogium> as do I
2022-03-17T23:18:59 < machinehum> Onsemi as one, you email them. Oh here's the driver
2022-03-17T23:19:15 < Xogium> kind of why I try and stick with st as much as I can these days
2022-03-17T23:19:18 < machinehum> Well why don't you cunts put it upstream so more people will buy your parts
2022-03-17T23:20:02 < Xogium> indeed
2022-03-17T23:20:09 < machinehum> I has a guy in from Freescale the other day he was all confused why people didn't use their chips because their 4.5Gb visual Studio fork worked great
2022-03-17T23:20:21 < machinehum> I told their their SW had aids and he just looked at me
2022-03-17T23:20:37 < machinehum> "the other day" is not correct, this was about 3 years ago
2022-03-17T23:20:56 < machinehum> I guess it was NXP
2022-03-17T23:21:22 < tct> well, this was all helpful information - thank you guys!
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2022-03-17T23:29:54 < qyx> machinehum: aisler did that, jlcpcb is able to do too
2022-03-17T23:29:57 < qyx> so not much HDI
2022-03-17T23:31:55 < machinehum> o
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2022-03-17T23:32:56 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/PfaM0gI
2022-03-17T23:33:09 < machinehum> Track width
2022-03-17T23:33:14 < machinehum> 0.2mm :(
2022-03-17T23:33:21 < tct> fucking hell... can´t even get a simple FPGA these days.
2022-03-17T23:33:44 < josuah> tct: which chip do you target?
2022-03-17T23:33:45 < BrainDamage> 2022 is the year of discrete cpus
2022-03-17T23:34:29 < tct> josuah, I´m still looking for options. I was hoping to get a SoC with a Cortex-A and an FPGA fabric. something like a Cyclone V
2022-03-17T23:34:39 < tct> BrainDamage <3
2022-03-17T23:35:03 < josuah> tct: I was interested in small things for experimenting, and here are my findings: https://tinyvision.ai/products/upduino-v3-0 (ICE40 ~25 USD) - https://fomu.im/ (ICE40 ~50 USD) - https://www.tindie.com/products/Folknology/blackice-mx/ (ICE40 ~65 USD) - https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/seeed-technology-co-ltd/102991314/10667532 (GoWin ~10 USD) - https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/474-DEV-16527 
2022-03-17T23:35:10 < josuah> (Artix 7 ~100 USD) - https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/842-LFE5UM5G-85F-EVN (ECP5 - ~90USD) - https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/474-DEV-17273 (EOS S3 - ~40 USD)
2022-03-17T23:35:26 < tct> thank you josuah - much appreciated
2022-03-17T23:35:32 < josuah> but you look like after something higher-end
2022-03-17T23:35:45 < tct> this is a project I wanted to get started for a year now. but always getting screwed by stocks
2022-03-17T23:35:58 < machinehum> Welcome to the club
2022-03-17T23:36:00 < tct> josuah, yeah but I´m comparably flexible. still in the conceiving phase
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2022-03-17T23:36:20 < tct> I spend the last three years consulting/contracting for large corp customers so they brought their own stocks to the table.
2022-03-17T23:36:31 < tct> doesn´t help for in-house projects.
2022-03-17T23:36:35 < machinehum> Most people here just hangout, talk about lack of stm32's and talk aboue the ukrane
2022-03-17T23:36:48 < machinehum> Maybe some people are building things
2022-03-17T23:36:50 < tct> lol
2022-03-17T23:37:02 < tct> I´ve been here since 2009. just been very quiet the last 5 years or so
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2022-03-17T23:47:08 < Steffanx> Who is tct?
--- Day changed pe maalis 18 2022
2022-03-18T00:00:37 < Laurenceb> Its no use deliberately targeting a hospital with a single bomb - that misses. What kind of self-respecting war crime is that? Bomber Harris would laugh at such amateurishness!
2022-03-18T00:01:18 < Laurenceb> I want to see a sustained attack that leaves it a smoking pile of rubble. Furthermore I'm not impressed by reporters telling me that "Some people must have been killed", I want to see them all killed!
2022-03-18T00:02:11 < Laurenceb> RT trolls are epin
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2022-03-18T00:12:18 < mawk> Steffanx: probably a russian spy
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2022-03-18T00:14:03 < tct> Steffanx :-*
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2022-03-18T13:26:51 < Laurenceb> https://encyclopediadramatica.online/VolunteersForUkraine
2022-03-18T13:36:27 -!- mode/##stm32 [+q *!*@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by ChanServ
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2022-03-18T13:53:57 < specing> Laurenceb: loooool
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2022-03-18T14:15:26 < Steffanx> Are you alright specing? Did spending too much time on the Internet fuck you up? The current specing isn't the specing from a few years ago.. 
2022-03-18T14:15:36 < Steffanx> What happened 
2022-03-18T14:15:57 < Steffanx> I remember the old specing  
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2022-03-18T15:53:59 < jpa-> most chatters here are on the top 10 happies countries list; finally an explanation for the blatant optimism and cheery mood around here!
2022-03-18T15:56:05 < englishman> as the newly crowned happiest chatter, how will you spread cheer and amusement to the surly chatters?
2022-03-18T15:56:55 < jpa-> i'll try to find something to complain about, so you'll feel like my life isn't that great either and it makes you feel better about yourself
2022-03-18T16:06:26 < BrainDamage> is that a consequence of the suicide rates being pretty high? the unhappy ones remove themselves?
2022-03-18T16:08:18 < karlp> used the silabs command line tooling to make a project that can be built with makefiles, so I can do some headless builds, and mayhbe share things nicer,
2022-03-18T16:08:23 < karlp> ok, works, 
2022-03-18T16:08:33 < karlp> but... you can't get it back into ssv5 to do anything graphical
2022-03-18T16:08:56 < karlp> it's completely detached from all the ssv5 functionality now.
2022-03-18T16:09:09 < karlp> I think I'm just going to ahve to "add a makefile later"
2022-03-18T16:10:03 < BrainDamage> is the format completely incompatible?
2022-03-18T16:11:28 < karlp> well, they generate just a raw makefile, and it works, but I tried a bunch of different methods of importing that into ssv5 again, and after lots of fucking with "natures" and "builders" I can at least make it _build_ in ssv5, but I can't debug,
2022-03-18T16:12:05 < karlp> I seem to be staring at what I hate, of having two parallel project builds one from the IDE and one from the CLI, that are _not_ the same thing.
2022-03-18T16:12:12 < karlp> and punting this to be a "solve it later" problem.
2022-03-18T16:13:43 < jpa-> i just ditched the IDE immediately :)
2022-03-18T16:14:03 < karlp> yeah, well, I still need it to debug, because I haven't fixed openocd support yet, 
2022-03-18T16:14:22 < karlp> and I still would _like_ to be able to use their component shits, because I don't have infinte time to redo everything from scratch.
2022-03-18T16:14:49 < karlp> just gotta not get upset by not having a proper plan for automated building
2022-03-18T16:15:13 < BrainDamage> automate ui interactions >.>
2022-03-18T16:15:42 < karlp> nah, that's worse.
2022-03-18T16:16:10 < karlp> I kinda just hope that by the time I actually want/need automated builds, I might be famliar enough with the rest of it to not need the IDE as much anymore anyway,
2022-03-18T16:17:16 < jpa-> https://www.tellerreport.com/tech/2022-03-18-aeg-combi-microwave-unusable-after-update--device-thinks-it-is-a-steam-oven.Bkxu7Aa-z9.html   i wonder what they would update remotely in a microwave oven? the newest coolest recipes?
2022-03-18T16:19:38 < karlp> yeah, a friend has one, and he actualyl likes it, and is currently glad that he never let it connect to wifi.
2022-03-18T16:22:08 < BrainDamage> so they made a trans oven
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2022-03-18T16:36:28 < fenugrec> why the f would anyone want their appliance to connect to the internet is beyond me
2022-03-18T16:38:11 < BrainDamage> remote control isn't per se a horrible idea, but a oven doesn't have a lot of uses for it
2022-03-18T16:38:34 < BrainDamage> eg remote control for hvac is plenty useful, you can pre-heat or pre-cool home when you're away
2022-03-18T16:39:31 < fenugrec> starting an appliance remotely is a horrible idea IMO. they control vast amounts of water and heat; I barely trust them when I'm near. I've seen at least 2 dishwashers, 2 washers and one heater failing in a horrible mess. Would not want to have that happen over wifi
2022-03-18T16:40:17 < fenugrec> oh, and I had a toilet explode too. I don't think they make internet-of-toilets yet though, thank goodness
2022-03-18T16:40:35 < BrainDamage> dishwasher and washing machines have very little use for remote control
2022-03-18T16:40:45 < BrainDamage> you need to load/unload them manually anyway
2022-03-18T16:40:52 < fenugrec> I'm sure they still make them wifi-enabled anyway "just because"
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2022-03-18T16:48:30 < karlp> one of the things was to be able to turn on and off the oven remotely for "load the oven in the morning, turn on via app during the day, arrve home to dinner"
2022-03-18T16:48:52 < karlp> they very much make iotoilets already
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2022-03-18T16:54:40 < BrainDamage> unless it's vegetables only, that doesn't sound very healthy, you'd be leaving meat at room temp for several hours
2022-03-18T16:56:53  * karlp shrugs. I don't use thsi sort of thing
2022-03-18T16:57:21 < karlp> other than decay while it's sitting there, what's still going to be hazardous after you've then cooked it though?
2022-03-18T16:57:44 < BrainDamage> not all toxins are removed by high temps
2022-03-18T16:57:57 < BrainDamage> so the bacterias might be gone, but not the shit they leave in
2022-03-18T16:58:14 < PaulFertser> Same about fungi
2022-03-18T17:08:04 < jpa-> theoretically yeah, but probably the practical risk is pretty small for a few hours if there isn't a lot of bacteria to start with
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2022-03-18T17:15:00 < fenugrec> unless they do a cook cycle early in the day, and just keep warm for a few hours
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2022-03-18T17:26:07 < kakium69> are you guise talking about food poisoning now
2022-03-18T17:42:08 < kakium69> what was that instruction etc. that ensures that 2 operations are not optimized into 1?
2022-03-18T17:42:28 < kakium69> I could make variable volatile though
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2022-03-18T17:45:31 < karlp> do you mean dsb/isb?
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2022-03-18T17:51:19 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-18T17:51:49 < kakium69> thanks
2022-03-18T18:03:54 < bitmask> no
2022-03-18T18:03:57 < bitmask> your welcome
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2022-03-18T18:04:58 < bitmask> sorry
2022-03-18T18:05:00 < bitmask> :)
2022-03-18T18:05:18 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-18T18:05:21 < kakium69> thanks
2022-03-18T18:05:58 < bitmask> so i got an ito sputtering target in the goal of powdering it up and possibly spray painting a slightly translucent conductive coating... this thing is hard as a rock it feels like a slab of metal
2022-03-18T18:06:42 < bitmask> i still dont know for sure what it is although it is conductive
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2022-03-18T18:57:29 < jpa-> how to finish stuff?
2022-03-18T18:58:34 < mawk> stop doing other stuff and do the stuff instead
2022-03-18T18:59:12 < jpa-> what if lazy
2022-03-18T18:59:34 < bitmask> just give up
2022-03-18T19:00:15 < jpa-> sounds good
2022-03-18T19:00:31 < bitmask> :)
2022-03-18T19:08:46 < Steffanx> Lazy or lack of motivation?
2022-03-18T19:09:07 < Steffanx> I always say I'm lazy while it also might be lack of motivation.
2022-03-18T19:10:03 < jpa-> probably both
2022-03-18T19:10:23 < mawk> what's the difference
2022-03-18T19:10:30 < mawk> are you depressed jpa- ?
2022-03-18T19:10:44 < mawk> what do you do instead of finishing stuff typically
2022-03-18T19:10:49 < mawk> starting new stuff?
2022-03-18T19:13:11 < jpa-> doing nothing
2022-03-18T19:13:21 < mawk> daydreaming?
2022-03-18T19:13:26 < mawk> browsing ze internet?
2022-03-18T19:13:26 < jpa-> not really
2022-03-18T19:13:51 < fenugrec> recursive projects ?
2022-03-18T19:20:06 < BrainDamage> bitmask: make a ball mill
2022-03-18T19:20:17 < bitmask> yea, already planned on it
2022-03-18T19:20:36 < BrainDamage> I made one out of a 2L soda bottle and a small motor
2022-03-18T19:20:59 < BrainDamage> the indentations in the bottom are perfect to grab and release the ball bearings
2022-03-18T19:21:12 < bitmask> looking for a solvent for ITO. looks like HCl but id prefer something less acidic
2022-03-18T19:21:31 < BrainDamage> HF >.>
2022-03-18T19:21:35 < bitmask> riiiiight
2022-03-18T19:21:50 < bitmask> and i guess if it can dissolve the ito then i dont need a ball mill
2022-03-18T19:21:58 < bitmask> unless i just use a carrier
2022-03-18T19:27:58 < bitmask> methanol, hmm
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2022-03-18T19:41:22 < bitmask> or not, why is there so little information
2022-03-18T19:41:47 < fenugrec> what are you doing again ? 
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2022-03-18T19:50:18 < kakium69> bitmask: are you solving energy crisis?
2022-03-18T19:51:46 < bitmask> always
2022-03-18T19:52:08 < bitmask> im just seeing if i can make a semi transparent conductive coating
2022-03-18T19:52:18 < bitmask> comparable to PEDOT:PSS
2022-03-18T19:52:53 < BrainDamage> ITO is what's used in lcd for transparent conductive traces
2022-03-18T19:52:59 < bitmask> i know what it is
2022-03-18T19:53:22 < bitmask> i just dont know if it will work without vapor deposition or sputtering
2022-03-18T19:53:27 < bitmask> as like an ink
2022-03-18T19:55:16 < BrainDamage> I was telling others, I assumed you knew :P
2022-03-18T19:55:21 < bitmask> oh heh
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2022-03-18T19:57:00 < BrainDamage> iirc ito has a pretty high annealing and melting point
2022-03-18T19:57:11 < BrainDamage> so you can't even sinter it
2022-03-18T19:58:53 < bitmask> i can coat it in a lacquer or something after as long as its conductive as a powder film
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--- Day changed la maalis 19 2022
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2022-03-19T00:27:21 < karlp> 10 commits ahead of upstream already on a programming tool and I've not even tried programming anything yet....
2022-03-19T00:28:43 < mawk> are you going to make a PR?
2022-03-19T00:29:04 < karlp> yeah, 
2022-03-19T00:29:41 < karlp> think I now need to try and grab the simplest blink shit on this board I can find, but the vendor demos are all for this windows only IDE..
2022-03-19T00:30:27 < mawk> you can maybe boot once into windows, try to build the project so it generates its makefile or whatever, and keep that makefile for linux
2022-03-19T00:31:09 < karlp> well, right now I'm downloading the windows ide in a vm, will try and get one or two blinky examples I can rip out
2022-03-19T00:32:07 < karlp> so, theyv'e got a binary openocd with no source that at least works, and https://github.com/MarsTechHAN/ch552tool looks like it will work for ~all wch parts too by the look of things so far...
2022-03-19T00:33:59 < karlp> man i hate windows though
2022-03-19T00:37:34 < mawk> what are you doing with these 8-bit things
2022-03-19T00:38:00 < mawk> tiny mcu
2022-03-19T00:38:44 < fenugrec> put 4 in parallel to get a 32-bit mcu
2022-03-19T00:39:02 < karlp> ch552tool is originally for the bootloader on wch 8051s, yes.
2022-03-19T00:39:17 < fenugrec> oo, 8051, bring back the 90s
2022-03-19T00:39:32 < karlp> but it's _also_ talkingt ot he bootloader on their bigger modern rsciv parts
2022-03-19T00:39:49 < karlp> which is all I'm planning on using it with
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2022-03-19T00:40:40 < fenugrec> hahaha even that repo's readme says "Tool setup .... As for windows, oh no ... :("
2022-03-19T00:41:06 < karlp> thankfuck it was sensible pyusb
2022-03-19T00:41:23 < karlp> there was another similar one that was in raw libusb on c, and was also less featureful
2022-03-19T00:41:36 < karlp> zero reason for this sort of thing to be in C.
2022-03-19T00:42:36 < karlp> need a bunch more usb-a/c cables now though
2022-03-19T00:45:38 < kakium69> 8051 still relevant
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2022-03-19T01:00:45 < fenugrec> I wonder if there will be a USB-C++ standard. that would be perfect nomenclature
2022-03-19T01:05:42 < karlp> yay, Ih ave a blinky on ch32v307...
2022-03-19T01:07:15 < emeb> Nice
2022-03-19T01:08:16 < karlp> the vendor code looks very very cube like again.
2022-03-19T01:08:24 < karlp> gd32 is mor elike libopencm3 style..
2022-03-19T01:08:55 < emeb> I suspect that WCH tries to stick very closely to STM32 style in all things.
2022-03-19T01:09:06 < emeb> don't wanna scare off the customers.
2022-03-19T01:09:14 < karlp> yar, until we get to the bluetooth parts I suspect
2022-03-19T01:09:25 < karlp> they still a super weird company :)
2022-03-19T01:09:48 < emeb> heh. so I hear.
2022-03-19T01:09:58 < karlp> it still sounds like they re-did swd and are jsut not calling it that.
2022-03-19T01:10:22 < karlp> it's onyl two wires debug, from their "wch-link" not 4 wire jtag...
2022-03-19T01:10:27 < emeb> I don't think the tech is patented, just the name?
2022-03-19T01:10:33 < emeb> (trademarked)
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2022-03-19T01:13:10  * karlp shrugs
2022-03-19T01:13:15 < karlp> gd32v stuff is jtag only,
2022-03-19T01:13:35 < karlp> and I'm not sure yet whether you can actually use existing swd hardware to talk to them or not.
2022-03-19T01:13:45 < karlp> wanted to get some stuff working before I tried crazy shits
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2022-03-19T01:15:28 < emeb_mac> I was thinking of messing with those too, but was too late to get one of their devboards
2022-03-19T01:15:44 < karlp> hrm, their openocd private fork seemed nice at first, but it's flakey when you start actually doing things :)
2022-03-19T01:16:12 < emeb_mac> shocking!
2022-03-19T01:17:20 < emeb_mac> karlp: did you get one of their wch-link pods or does the devboard have it built-in like nucleos?
2022-03-19T01:17:47 < karlp> the black ch32v307 has a buitl in on, very nucleo style, ardui headers and all the works.
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2022-03-19T01:18:16 < karlp> the ch582 riscv+bluetooth board doesn't, just has headers for "swdio" and "swdclk"
2022-03-19T01:18:39 < karlp> but the "wch-link" on the other board has headers for external use similar to nucleo style as I understand it.
2022-03-19T01:18:54 < karlp> the aliexpress wch-link sounds like it could be risky choices,
2022-03-19T01:19:10 < karlp> there's "wch-link arm" and "wch-link riscv"
2022-03-19T01:19:29 < karlp> and I _think_  you can reflash between them but I'm not sure yet...
2022-03-19T01:20:49 < emeb_mac> Sounds like the black board is the one to get then. Wonder if LCSC will have more.
2022-03-19T01:24:11 < karlp> the black board is the one they're doign the promo with, I expect it will be well supported in lots of places.
2022-03-19T01:24:52 < karlp> also, usb-hs on board, and a gigabit mac, and a 10meg phy is a fun mix...
2022-03-19T01:25:44 < karlp> ok, two functionally different blinkies, back to the python hackery to extend the bootloader tools.
2022-03-19T01:26:01 < karlp> then it's laks miniblink without this big pile of vendor shit
2022-03-19T01:28:24 < karlp> worth havingbehind your ear, the onboard leds aren't wired up out of the box.
2022-03-19T01:28:39 < karlp> you have to externall connect a gpio to the "LEDn" pins on the headers.
2022-03-19T01:29:59 < karlp> this makes a very unexpected and odd claim that y ou can "choose your ram/flash balance" https://programmer.ink/think/risc-v-mcu-development-tutorial-ch32v307-configuring-flash-and-ram.html
2022-03-19T01:31:36 < fenugrec> didn't know WCH makes riscv too
2022-03-19T01:32:22 < fenugrec> ah yes, CH32V103 . So a clone of f103 periphs, with a RV core ? i wonder
2022-03-19T01:32:26 < karlp> yeah, fairly recently, it's the only reason I'm kinda looking at it.
2022-03-19T01:32:41 < karlp> yeah,there's a ch32v103, which is the generic f103 bullshit
2022-03-19T01:32:51 < karlp> but they have more interesting parts that aren't straight clones.
2022-03-19T01:33:28 < fenugrec> yea, 32V203 doesn't sound familiar. CAN + USB_FS
2022-03-19T01:34:10 < fenugrec> no engrigh docs though
2022-03-19T01:34:37 < karlp> yeah, they do actually
2022-03-19T01:34:42 < karlp> just not easily navigable website
2022-03-19T01:35:07 < fenugrec> I keep getting linked to zh_cn pages
2022-03-19T01:35:31 < fenugrec> eh whatever. I don't need more projects
2022-03-19T01:35:59 < karlp> https://github.com/openwch/ch32v307/tree/main/Datasheet ghas english refman
2022-03-19T01:46:38 < karlp> schweet, can use the "not quite DFU" as well.
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2022-03-19T01:52:35 < emeb_mac> karlp: WRT to the RAM/Flash balance - consensus is that the CH32 parts have no on-chip flash, just all RAM and the system ROM loads into RAM from a separate flash die in the pkg and then write protects it. The straps let you choose how much.
2022-03-19T01:53:37 < karlp> interesting. 
2022-03-19T01:54:12 < karlp> that's similar to something I saw about a gd32 or someting that got decapped and found a ~so8 spi flash die inside sort of thing
2022-03-19T01:54:17 < karlp> and yeah, it was all handled by "rom"
2022-03-19T02:04:21 < emeb_mac> karlp: ISTR hearing that too. Would be interesting to find out if the comm port between the MCU and flash die is accessible and one could use the flash for additional storage.
2022-03-19T02:04:56 < karlp> lol
2022-03-19T02:05:37 < emeb_mac> lots of hacking potential. If system ROM isn't protected then just dump it and throw into Ghidra to figure out where everything is.
2022-03-19T02:05:46 < karlp> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiq18Kg8ND2AhUWi1wKHXRzDoAQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usenix.org%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fwoot20-paper-obermaier.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0YHlG_9-6t2-i3LLx8IYhs
2022-03-19T02:05:50 < karlp> oh fffs google
2022-03-19T02:06:06 < karlp> zapb's hacking shit has die shots, and yeah, gd32f103 and another are separate parts at least.
2022-03-19T02:06:46 < karlp> also here, https://zeptobars.com/en/read/GD32F103CBT6-mcm-serial-flash-Giga-Devices
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2022-03-19T02:20:14 < emeb_mac> Nice die photos.
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2022-03-19T02:33:47 < karlp> ok, wch-link on v307 board can talk to the other board too.
2022-03-19T02:34:01 < karlp> or at least, their private oocd can open it and doesn't complain.
2022-03-19T02:34:03 < karlp> good enough for now
2022-03-19T02:34:12 < karlp> PR sent for "not dfu" shit
2022-03-19T02:34:16 < karlp> good fucking friday.
2022-03-19T02:35:13 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1504978264347062276
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2022-03-19T02:50:44 < fenugrec> no bezier curve fitting ? disappointing
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2022-03-19T03:35:32 < englishman> emeb, check out the thank you line at the bottom.
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2022-03-19T04:12:07 < emeb_mac> englishman: lol @ dongs reference.
2022-03-19T04:12:19 < emeb_mac> wonder what he's up to now
2022-03-19T04:12:39 < englishman> he chats all the time on the telegram we have.
2022-03-19T04:12:48 < englishman> didn’t make the switch from freenode
2022-03-19T04:13:02 < englishman> pm me if you want the link
2022-03-19T04:15:13 < emeb_mac> englishman: thx - maybe later. not doing telegram yet and not looking for yet another social thing. 
2022-03-19T04:15:32 < englishman> yeah i get it
2022-03-19T04:16:22 < englishman> why can’t everyone just use icq?
2022-03-19T04:16:43 < emeb_mac> lol
2022-03-19T04:16:49 < emeb_mac> or a BBS!
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2022-03-19T04:18:41 < kakium69> just telnet each other
2022-03-19T04:19:39 < englishman> AOL still has 5,600 employees.
2022-03-19T04:22:17 < emeb_mac> That is not dead which can eternal lie. And through strange aeons even death may die.
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2022-03-19T05:01:41 < mawk> I hacked a wii I found in a closet
2022-03-19T05:01:43 < mawk> welcome to 2006
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2022-03-19T05:28:51 < emeb_mac> closets are now a more reliable source of semiconductors than Digi-Key
2022-03-19T05:41:48 < englishman> better interface too
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2022-03-19T14:55:54 < catphish> morning humans
2022-03-19T14:57:05 < Steffanx> Gooday cat and phish. 
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2022-03-19T15:06:39 < catphish> so, i have this battery box, and i need to install fuses, bus bars and relays down each side like so: https://i.imgur.com/juwCo4s.png
2022-03-19T15:07:20 < catphish> do i 1) just bolt them to the outdide of the box, simple and fiddly or 2) try to create an insert that holds everything then just drops in from the top
2022-03-19T15:07:42 < catphish> i obviously much prefer (2) but i have no idea how to form such a thing
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2022-03-19T18:48:30 < kakium69> zyp: is there a way to get one size bigger type in c++?
2022-03-19T18:48:46 < kakium69> if template says uint8_t
2022-03-19T18:48:55 < kakium69> then uint16_t
2022-03-19T18:52:45 < mawk> you can make your own template to do that
2022-03-19T18:52:50 < mawk> it's not too hard
2022-03-19T18:53:27 < mawk> make a template that maps sizes to types, and then you call it like T<sizeof(U)+1>::type
2022-03-19T18:53:36 < mawk> or sizeof(U)*2 rather
2022-03-19T18:55:28 < BrainDamage> catphish: something like this? https://i.imgur.com/kr6l7Lu.png
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2022-03-19T18:58:45 < mawk> kakium69: https://www.ideone.com/OeXgJO
2022-03-19T18:58:46 < mawk> like this
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2022-03-19T18:59:20 < mawk> actually the first template should be called size_to_type
2022-03-19T18:59:21 < mawk> but whatever it works
2022-03-19T19:00:22 < kakium69> mawk: you just created that?
2022-03-19T19:00:25 < mawk> yes
2022-03-19T19:00:30 < kakium69> damn
2022-03-19T19:00:49 < mawk> line 14 to 35 is just copy-pasted line 7-13 with changing the numbers
2022-03-19T19:01:47 < mawk> there's also uint128_t on modern pc
2022-03-19T19:01:51 < mawk> but I suppose you're using this on embedded
2022-03-19T19:02:12 < mawk> which goes only up to uint64_t, and even that is using gcc magic because the processor doesn't support it 
2022-03-19T19:06:03 < kakium69> thanks
2022-03-19T19:06:47 < mawk> anyway since it's template, even if you mention uint64_t it won't explode
2022-03-19T19:07:02 < mawk> unless you actually require a uint64_t type and then it will say something at compilation if it's not supported
2022-03-19T19:07:08 < mawk> (hopefully)
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2022-03-19T19:12:28 < cristian_c> hi
2022-03-19T19:12:53 < cristian_c> where I can get help about stm8 boards?
2022-03-19T19:13:03 < cristian_c> Any ideas?
2022-03-19T19:13:18 < mawk> here, probably
2022-03-19T19:13:21 < mawk> but why
2022-03-19T19:14:22 < cristian_c> I started to play with this board in order to communicate via swim
2022-03-19T19:14:46 < cristian_c> *can I
2022-03-19T19:14:54 < mawk> probably yes
2022-03-19T19:14:55 < mawk> why not?
2022-03-19T19:14:58 < mawk> you have a stlink?
2022-03-19T19:15:03 < cristian_c> yeah
2022-03-19T19:15:09 < mawk> then just do it
2022-03-19T19:15:11 < englishman> yes swim is the debug interface
2022-03-19T19:15:24 < mawk> you can use this to generate code to send to the board: https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm8cubemx.html
2022-03-19T19:15:26 < cristian_c> I've followed some tutorials/guides, installed sdcc, and compiled stm8flash
2022-03-19T19:15:33 < mawk> if you don't know what you're doing yyet
2022-03-19T19:15:37 < mawk> ah
2022-03-19T19:16:01 < mawk> even knowing what I'm doing (relatively) I still use cubemx, but don't tell other users in this channel
2022-03-19T19:16:17 < englishman> nothing wrong with cube
2022-03-19T19:16:18 < cristian_c> then I tried to run stm8flash with blinky.ihx and BLINK.ihx
2022-03-19T19:16:28 < mawk> where did you get this blinky thing
2022-03-19T19:16:33 < mawk> did you compile it yourself for your target board?
2022-03-19T19:16:36 < cristian_c> (after compiled .c files)
2022-03-19T19:18:18 < cristian_c> i.e. I've cloned sdcc-examples-stm8 repo
2022-03-19T19:19:10 < mawk> but was it made for your board?
2022-03-19T19:19:15 < mawk> you can't take any random example
2022-03-19T19:19:18 < mawk> as far as I know
2022-03-19T19:19:29 < mawk> if you want something that will probably work first time, try cubemx
2022-03-19T19:19:39 < mawk> it's a tool that generates the right bootstrap code for your board/chip
2022-03-19T19:19:43 < cristian_c> and I've run stm8flash -c stlinkv2 -p stm8s103f3 -w blinky.ihx
2022-03-19T19:19:47 < mawk> then you take its output and put your code in it
2022-03-19T19:19:57 < mawk> yes but I mean the .c files have to be made for your board cristian_c 
2022-03-19T19:20:15 < mawk> otherwise anything can be off, like the flash base address, flash size, clocks, peripheral address, etc
2022-03-19T19:20:18 < cristian_c> in the second case, it should be
2022-03-19T19:22:48 < mawk> can you show from which repo you found the .c files?
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2022-03-19T19:23:16 < cristian_c> I mean, BLINK.ihx, I've got the .c code from a tutorial using stm8s103f3 board: https://blog.junix.in/2018/01/05/program-stm8s-development-board/
2022-03-19T19:23:31 < cristian_c> the board in the photo is oretty the same as mine
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2022-03-19T19:23:57 < mawk> so it's using internal clock I guess
2022-03-19T19:24:00 < mawk> as I don't see clock on the board
2022-03-19T19:24:10 < mawk> if it's the same chip it should work; but then verify that the LED is on the same pin
2022-03-19T19:24:27 < mawk> look at the datasheet/description of where you bought your board to check on which pin the LED is
2022-03-19T19:25:01 < mawk> in their example it's PB5
2022-03-19T19:25:03 < mawk> check for yours
2022-03-19T19:25:11 < cristian_c> mawk: ok,  I link the url from the first case: https://github.com/vdudouyt/sdcc-examples-stm8
2022-03-19T19:25:32 < mawk> bad code
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2022-03-19T19:25:43 < mawk> why is it 0x80
2022-03-19T19:25:46 < mawk> then you don't know which pin it is
2022-03-19T19:26:29 < mawk> 0x80 is 1<<7, write 1<<7 so you know which pin it is
2022-03-19T19:26:51 < mawk> so it this code it is PE7 pin?
2022-03-19T19:26:55 < mawk> apparently
2022-03-19T19:27:08 < mawk> so check on your board where the LED is
2022-03-19T19:27:10 < cristian_c> my board is stm8s103f3p6
2022-03-19T19:27:21 < mawk> that's the chip name, not the board
2022-03-19T19:27:28 < mawk> the LED can be on any pin of that chip
2022-03-19T19:27:43 < mawk> look on your board it's maybe written, or test it with a multimeter, or look online where you bought the board
2022-03-19T19:28:10 < cristian_c> yes, sorry, I've made a mistake
2022-03-19T19:28:49 < englishman> welcome to programming
2022-03-19T19:29:02 < mawk> lol
2022-03-19T19:29:04 < englishman> sometimes there is some innovation that shows up between mistakes
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2022-03-19T19:29:11 < catphish> BrainDamage: i'm not clear what i'm looking at :(
2022-03-19T19:30:18 < cristian_c> there are two leds on the board, btw
2022-03-19T19:30:35 < mawk> one is for power, probably
2022-03-19T19:30:37 < mawk> and you don't control it
2022-03-19T19:30:46 < mawk> it's just solid red when power is applied
2022-03-19T19:31:45 < cristian_c> I think blinky should be edited (0x80 and not onpy)
2022-03-19T19:32:11 < BrainDamage> catphish: it's a side view
2022-03-19T19:32:31 < BrainDamage> there's a cover that goes on the side, and clamps on top with a bolt
2022-03-19T19:33:11 < catphish> oh i see, i did consider making the sides removeable, but it's a nightmare for water ingress protection
2022-03-19T19:33:34 < catphish> BrainDamage: so instead i need to work out a way to insert into an already sealed box
2022-03-19T19:33:43 < mawk> cristian_c: you need to replace 0x80 by 1<<N, with N the pin 
2022-03-19T19:33:56 < mawk> but it's maybe not the PE gpio bank, you need to look on your board
2022-03-19T19:34:03 < mawk> you won't be able to guess it, you need to look it up
2022-03-19T19:34:08 < mawk> do you have a multimeter?
2022-03-19T19:34:12 < cristian_c> until now, I've only noticed just blue led, both cases (when connecting  srm8s board to usb port directly, and when connectd to stlinkv2 programmer via swim, gnd, 3v3 and nrst)
2022-03-19T19:35:22 < cristian_c> yes, 0x80 is in blinky.c from sdcc-exampls repo, but probably blink.c from junix blog doesn't need much more changes/fixes to the code
2022-03-19T19:35:44 < cristian_c> mawk: yes, I've got a multimeter
2022-03-19T19:35:52 < mawk> then use it to figure out on which pin your LED is
2022-03-19T19:36:01 < mawk> you need to know where the LED is connected if you ever hope to blink it
2022-03-19T19:36:54 < cristian_c> (btw, stm8s microcotrollr, not he board) is a bit too little and smd pins are too close between themselves
2022-03-19T19:38:26 < mawk> yeah it can be hard to solder if you're not used to
2022-03-19T19:39:41 < cristian_c> I've got some previous bad expericens with tssop(?) smd chips soldering
2022-03-19T19:40:21 < cristian_c> maybe, just coil thin wire (without insulation) could be helpful
2022-03-19T19:41:56 < mawk> you can try hot air
2022-03-19T19:41:58 < mawk> or hot plate
2022-03-19T19:42:07 < mawk> in the meantime, use your multimeter in continuity mode and find out on which pin the LED is
2022-03-19T19:42:12 < mawk> or you will never be able to blink it
2022-03-19T19:42:33 < mawk> find out which pin of the LED is ground, then with one probe on the other pin of the LED, browse all pins of the STM8 until you hear beep
2022-03-19T19:42:42 < mawk> and then you will have found on which pin of the STM8 the LED is connected
2022-03-19T19:46:23 < englishman> is there a reason you are using stm8? Have you considered something more geared towards beginners like arduino?
2022-03-19T19:49:49 < cristian_c> mawk: yeah, the method is simple, just the difficult is touching a single smd pin with multimeter probe since they are much close and  thin
2022-03-19T19:50:15 < mawk> don't touch the smd pins
2022-03-19T19:50:18 < mawk> you have pins all around the board
2022-03-19T19:50:21 < mawk> they are connected to the stm8
2022-03-19T19:50:24 < mawk> aren't they labeled?
2022-03-19T19:50:25 < cristian_c> englishman: it's about to communicate with electronic devices via swim for debugging
2022-03-19T19:50:38 < mawk> where did you buy the board? do you have an url?
2022-03-19T19:51:05 < cristian_c> mawk: ah, sorry, I thought you was meaning the stm8s smd pins instead of board pins
2022-03-19T19:51:09 < cristian_c> sorry :D
2022-03-19T19:51:10 < mawk> well they are the same
2022-03-19T19:51:13 < mawk> they are connected to one anotehr
2022-03-19T19:51:22 < cristian_c> yeah, if that's a breakout board
2022-03-19T19:52:06 < cristian_c> and yes they are labeled, if you look at url I've linked (blog.junix.in) the board in the photo is pretty he same
2022-03-19T19:52:26 < mawk> it needs to be the exact same
2022-03-19T19:52:28 < cristian_c> I mean, BLINK.ihx, I've got the .c code from a tutorial using stm8s103f3 board: https://blog.junix.in/2018/01/05/program-stm8s-development-board/
2022-03-19T19:52:31 < mawk> where did you buy it?
2022-03-19T19:52:42 < mawk> well if they are labeled it's perfect, did you find which pin is the led?
2022-03-19T19:52:47 < mawk> not the power led, the other one
2022-03-19T19:53:20 < cristian_c> I don't remember exactly, it has been a while since then, maybe ebay (since I don't use amazon) or maybe banggood
2022-03-19T19:53:36 < mawk> right
2022-03-19T19:53:46 < cristian_c> I make the tedt since now
2022-03-19T19:53:47 < mawk> well find the pin using the multimeter then, and then you can modify the .c file to put the proper pin
2022-03-19T19:53:48 < mawk> and it will blink
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2022-03-19T19:53:53 < cristian_c> ok
2022-03-19T19:55:55 < cristian_c> btw, I'm looking at informstion about stm8cube on st official website
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2022-03-19T19:56:25 < cristian_c> *stm8cubemx
2022-03-19T19:58:16 < mawk> you need to register an account to downloa dit
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2022-03-19T20:00:05 < bitmask> o/
2022-03-19T20:00:12 < mawk> hoi
2022-03-19T20:00:15 < mawk> Steffanx: what does tokkie mean
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2022-03-19T20:03:02 < bitmask> damn, i just realized i dont know the purity of this n-butyl acetate i ordered
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2022-03-19T20:05:09 < bitmask> cant find an sds either, oh well, at least im not following a recipe
2022-03-19T20:10:10 < mawk> why did you buy this
2022-03-19T20:10:14 < mawk> for polymer crap?
2022-03-19T20:10:29 < bitmask> EL
2022-03-19T20:16:27 < Steffanx> Cant explain it better mawk: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokkie
2022-03-19T20:16:58 < mawk> electroluminescent bitmask ?
2022-03-19T20:17:03 < bitmask> yes
2022-03-19T20:17:15 < bitmask> needed an organic solvent
2022-03-19T20:17:40 < bitmask> looked at the lumilor sds sheets and it seems the main ingredients are n-butyl acetate and i think xylene
2022-03-19T20:17:49 < bitmask> figured id try just the n-butyl acetate
2022-03-19T20:18:07 < mawk> lol the poor guys named Tokkie Steffanx 
2022-03-19T20:18:24 < mawk> xylene is easier to obtain I think bitmask 
2022-03-19T20:18:26 < mawk> and it smells nice
2022-03-19T20:18:28 < mawk> like flower
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2022-03-19T20:18:40 < bitmask> n-butyl acetate is fruity
2022-03-19T20:18:47 < bitmask> i already have the nba
2022-03-19T20:18:52 < bitmask> it came today
2022-03-19T20:19:08 < bitmask> i think i can get xylene at home depot
2022-03-19T20:20:08 < mawk> a
2022-03-19T20:20:11 < mawk> maybe
2022-03-19T20:21:53 < bitmask> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Xylol-Xylene-QXY24/202310295
2022-03-19T20:22:08 < bitmask> a quart for 12 bucks
2022-03-19T20:23:48 < bitmask> sds shows it has ethylbenzene which lumilor has too
2022-03-19T20:24:56 < mawk> I guess ethylbenzene is quite similar to xyelen
2022-03-19T20:26:14 < bitmask> i ran out of copper sulfate so I hope i have enough solution, its enough for small objects at least, 2 quarts of electroplating and 1.75 quarts of electroforming
2022-03-19T20:31:56 < Steffanx> I mainly applies to their behaviour mawk
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2022-03-19T22:01:33 < Steffanx> It*
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2022-03-19T22:06:46 < mawk> Steffanx: what does "lol" mean in dutch
2022-03-19T22:06:48 < mawk> like "een lol"
2022-03-19T22:06:56 < mawk> I just saw that in subtitles of some series
2022-03-19T22:07:07 < mawk> I hope it doesn't mean lol
2022-03-19T22:18:28 < Steffanx> It doesn't mean "LOL".
2022-03-19T22:18:56 < Steffanx> "Lol hebben" is like "having fun"
2022-03-19T22:19:21 < Steffanx> If I say "lol" I probably mean it like "heh" "hah"
2022-03-19T22:21:31 < mawk> oh no
2022-03-19T22:21:33 < mawk> so it really means lol
2022-03-19T22:21:38 < mawk> what has the dutch language become
2022-03-19T22:21:44 < mawk> we are doomed
2022-03-19T22:23:35 < qyx> hebe du lol?
2022-03-19T22:23:57 < qyx> hebst sorry
2022-03-19T22:24:10 < qyx> hast sorry
2022-03-19T22:24:44 < mawk> heeft u lol?
2022-03-19T22:24:55 < qyx> close enough
2022-03-19T22:25:03 < mawk> when do you drop the t Steffanx ? I forgot
2022-03-19T22:25:11 < mawk> heb je? hebt u? hebt hij?
2022-03-19T22:25:16 < mawk> is it when you use "je" ?
2022-03-19T22:25:19 < mawk> but not with "u"
2022-03-19T22:25:23 < mawk> Steffanx Steffanx Steffanx Steffanx Steffanx Steffanx 
2022-03-19T22:27:45 < mawk> there are two forms qyx , heeft and hebt
2022-03-19T22:27:53 < mawk> I don't know which one is the one snobs use
2022-03-19T22:27:57 < mawk> maybe it depends on region
2022-03-19T22:38:00 < Steffanx> Hebt hij sounds incorrect. Always,mawk 
2022-03-19T22:38:47 < Steffanx> It drops when it drops, mawk
2022-03-19T22:39:08 < mawk> :(
2022-03-19T22:39:09 < mawk> but when
2022-03-19T22:39:17 < mawk> is it for "je"???
2022-03-19T22:39:30 < Steffanx> Great example:
2022-03-19T22:39:34 < Steffanx> Je hebt.
2022-03-19T22:39:37 < Steffanx> Heb je?
2022-03-19T22:39:46 < mawk> so it's only for je
2022-03-19T22:39:47 < Steffanx> It drops when it drops 😆
2022-03-19T22:39:51 < mawk> :(
2022-03-19T22:40:08 < mawk> so it's "heeft hij"
2022-03-19T22:40:15 < mawk> and "heeft u" ?
2022-03-19T22:40:19 < mawk> and "heb je"
2022-03-19T22:40:24 < mawk> Steffanx Steffanx 
2022-03-19T22:40:35 < Steffanx> Heeft hij? Yes
2022-03-19T22:40:39 < Steffanx> Heeft u? Yes
2022-03-19T22:40:44 < Steffanx> Heb je? Yes
2022-03-19T22:40:48 < mawk> good
2022-03-19T22:40:52 < mawk> so it drops only for je/jij
2022-03-19T22:40:58 < Steffanx> Or ik
2022-03-19T22:41:05 < Steffanx> Heb ik?
2022-03-19T22:41:07 < mawk> ah
2022-03-19T22:41:13 < mawk> nobody asks questions with "ik"
2022-03-19T22:41:18 < mawk> unless it's a shakespeare play
2022-03-19T22:41:43 < mawk> te zijn of niet te zijn
2022-03-19T22:41:49 < Steffanx> You ask it all the time. Heb ik nog drugs?
2022-03-19T22:41:59 < mawk> lol
2022-03-19T22:42:11 < mawk> ik heb veel drugs
2022-03-19T22:42:29 < mawk> de postman was leuk
2022-03-19T22:42:39 < mawk> en de apotheek ook
2022-03-19T22:43:12 < Steffanx> but then there is imperative mawk
2022-03-19T22:43:20 < mawk> yes
2022-03-19T22:43:28 < Steffanx> which usually drops the t as well
2022-03-19T22:43:37 < mawk> kom
2022-03-19T22:45:11 < Steffanx> Sometimes dutch is complicated enough for me.. 
2022-03-19T22:45:30 < mawk> that's why you need to learn french
2022-03-19T22:46:25 < Steffanx>  its "Meld u bij de balie" but apparently in a slightly differently form its "Meldt u zich bij de balie"
2022-03-19T22:46:55 < mawk> because it's different when the verb is reflexive?
2022-03-19T22:47:31 < mawk> zich melden vs melden
2022-03-19T22:47:37 < Steffanx> yeah
2022-03-19T22:47:43 < mawk> weird
2022-03-19T22:47:59 < mawk> burn dutch dictionaries and use french instead
2022-03-19T22:48:16 < Steffanx> its about the subject and shit
2022-03-19T22:48:24 < mawk> but it's u in both cases
2022-03-19T22:48:33 < Steffanx> but then it comes to  sentence parsing and i've always been terrible in that
2022-03-19T22:48:53 < emeb_mac> "burn dutch dictionaries and use french instead" <- sounds like a Belgian civil war
2022-03-19T22:49:17 < mawk> belgian is a fake state
2022-03-19T22:49:23 < mawk> it should be split up and given to france and netherlands
2022-03-19T22:49:42 < Steffanx> When you ask me about Belgium i always think of the flemish part emeb_mac. 
2022-03-19T22:49:46 < Steffanx> wallonia is irrelevant
2022-03-19T22:49:53 < mawk> :(
2022-03-19T22:50:05 < emeb_mac> I was looking at the .nl/.be border and it's hilarious
2022-03-19T22:50:36 < Steffanx> Why?
2022-03-19T22:50:42 < emeb_mac> the way it zigzags thru neighborhoods. how some isolated houses are from the other side
2022-03-19T22:51:37 < emeb_mac> no way you could put a beautiful wall thru that mess. :P
2022-03-19T22:51:38 < Steffanx> The most weird part is tiny belgium in dutchland: baarle hertog
2022-03-19T22:51:52 < emeb_mac> exactly
2022-03-19T22:52:45 < Steffanx> We should split up belgium and give it back to france and the netherlands.
2022-03-19T22:52:55 < Steffanx> oh and a tiny part to the germans
2022-03-19T22:52:58 < emeb_mac> heh
2022-03-19T22:53:13 < mawk> the germans don't deserve it
2022-03-19T22:53:19 < emeb_mac> The US/CA border has a bit o' weirdness - Pt Roberts: https://goo.gl/maps/6jP1UYkTUQSagDv88
2022-03-19T22:53:33 < Steffanx> its really fucked up. They have to do EVERYTHING in french, dutch and i recall german as well
2022-03-19T22:53:49 < mawk> why german
2022-03-19T22:53:53 < mawk> I thought only french and vlaams
2022-03-19T22:53:58 < mawk> françois et flamand
2022-03-19T22:53:59 < Steffanx> because there's a german part
2022-03-19T22:54:01 < mawk> lies
2022-03-19T22:54:04 < mawk> germans don't exist
2022-03-19T22:54:28 < mawk> they're all russians now
2022-03-19T22:55:39 < Steffanx> heh someone refused to move the ruler a few inches down emeb_mac?
2022-03-19T22:55:57 < emeb_mac> Steffanx: Yep - that was a dark time.
2022-03-19T22:56:23 < mawk> the cat paws work on the touchpad
2022-03-19T22:56:27 < mawk> she keeps clicking everywhere
2022-03-19T22:56:32 < mawk> and hijacking the cursor
2022-03-19T22:56:39 < emeb_mac> "Fifty-four forty or fight"
2022-03-19T22:56:48 < Steffanx> Heh only google streetview in the canadian part
2022-03-19T22:57:17 < mawk> what do I eat tonight Steffanx 
2022-03-19T22:57:20 < mawk> I want juicy mcdonalds
2022-03-19T22:57:24 < Steffanx> escargot.
2022-03-19T22:57:28 < mawk> but my credit card my refuse, I'm already at -400€
2022-03-19T22:57:34 < mawk> I'll be paid in 8 days
2022-03-19T22:57:44 < mawk> might refuse*
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2022-03-19T22:58:10 < emeb_mac> shake crumbs out of your keyboard
2022-03-19T22:59:29 < Steffanx> nothing left in the fridge
2022-03-19T22:59:33 < Steffanx> and mcdonalds.. meh
2022-03-19T22:59:37 < Steffanx> dont have a burgerking or something near?
2022-03-19T22:59:42 < Steffanx> much better
2022-03-19T23:00:09 < emeb_mac> Steffanx: WRT moving the ruler -> https://www.sos.wa.gov/archives/timeline/detail.aspx?id=188
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2022-03-19T23:03:58 < Steffanx> that website doenst seem to work
2022-03-19T23:05:40 < Steffanx> so hows dutch class meneer mawk?
2022-03-19T23:08:44 < mawk> very goed
2022-03-19T23:08:52 < mawk> still zes uur per week
2022-03-19T23:18:35 < cristian_c> mawk: just an update: I get very weird results
2022-03-19T23:18:44 < mawk> what do you mean?
2022-03-19T23:18:50 < mawk> have you determined on which pin the LED is?
2022-03-19T23:20:21 < cristian_c> if the board is completely disconnected, touching one  pin of 'test' led , the red led turs on when the other probe touches gnd, 5v and 3v3 pins
2022-03-19T23:20:36 < cristian_c> but at the same time multimeter doesn't detect continuity
2022-03-19T23:20:38 < cristian_c> weird
2022-03-19T23:22:12 < cristian_c> by the other side, if one prob touches the other led pin,  I still get no continuity for all he pins, aad in this case, the red led never turn on
2022-03-19T23:22:19 < cristian_c> for all the pins
2022-03-19T23:22:55 < cristian_c> mawk: so, it's difficult to get information by this test
2022-03-19T23:23:58 < mawk> have you done it on the other led cristian_c ?
2022-03-19T23:24:01 < mawk> you told there are two leds
2022-03-19T23:24:08 < mawk> and I told you one of the leds is only for power 
2022-03-19T23:24:12 < mawk> and you can only control the second lezd
2022-03-19T23:24:37 < cristian_c> mawk: when the  red test led  turns on touching gnd, 5v and 3v3 pins, I thought there was some shorts between these soldering pins but fortuntely not, because if I touch these pins with the probes between themselves, there is never continuity
2022-03-19T23:25:01 < cristian_c> mawk: I've triied with test led, not with thenpower led
2022-03-19T23:25:21 < cristian_c> I think I can control just only the test led
2022-03-19T23:25:40 < cristian_c> so, I've tried just with the test led
2022-03-19T23:26:27 < cristian_c> mawk: I mean, on he pcb i can read he text 'TEST' and 'PWR' near the leds
2022-03-19T23:26:50 < cristian_c> i tested just only the led near 'TEST' tedt
2022-03-19T23:26:58 < cristian_c> *text
2022-03-19T23:28:29 < cristian_c> mawk: coukd you confirm muktuneter testing  doesn't need the board connected to usb power source
2022-03-19T23:28:34 < cristian_c> ?
2022-03-19T23:29:22 < cristian_c> In this case, I cannot get information about the test led, I can try to repeat the test with the 'pwr' led, btw
2022-03-19T23:37:10 < cristian_c> mawk: ok,weird result for 'PWR' led too. IwhenI touch one pin on pwr led with one probe,  and I touch the gnd pin on the board, here is continuity
2022-03-19T23:39:50 < cristian_c> when I touch the other pin of the pwr led with one probe, there is continuity with none of the board pins
2022-03-19T23:39:52 < cristian_c> weird
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2022-03-19T23:44:56 < catphish> the benefit of computers is they do EXACTLY what they're told... https://i.imgur.com/GLF4AJw.png
2022-03-19T23:45:11 < catphish> interlocking parts ftw
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2022-03-19T23:54:51 < Steffanx> I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but it doesn't look right 
2022-03-19T23:55:41 < catphish> it is not
2022-03-19T23:55:48 < catphish> those parts are supposed to interlock
2022-03-19T23:55:58 < catphish> instead they are clearly nonsense
2022-03-19T23:58:49 < fenugrec> looks like wood joinery
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2022-03-19T23:59:14 < catphish> works with any material, but yes
--- Day changed su maalis 20 2022
2022-03-20T00:00:17 < catphish> the problem is that this software doesn't seem to understand the concept of joining 2 pieces that are parallel rather than perpendicular
2022-03-20T00:01:15 < fenugrec> is that fusion360 a.k.a dumpsterfire
2022-03-20T00:01:44 < catphish> freecad
2022-03-20T00:01:56 < catphish> but they're all different kinds of dumpster fire
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2022-03-20T00:02:06 < fenugrec> making assemblies in freecad ? you must be mad
2022-03-20T00:02:18 < catphish> it's working well so far
2022-03-20T00:02:38 < catphish> though i might go back to my trusty openscad for this
2022-03-20T00:02:43 < fenugrec> are there still 3-4 incompatible assembly plugins in various states of incompleteness
2022-03-20T00:02:59 < catphish> i'm not actually using the "assembly" tools
2022-03-20T00:03:10 < catphish> i just place parts manually
2022-03-20T00:03:59 < catphish> on the hole, it's working well
2022-03-20T00:19:45 < srk> catphish: openscad workbench? :)
2022-03-20T00:25:43 < catphish> srk: i just tried that, it didn't make sense, didn't seem to be any way to have a persistent scad code in there
2022-03-20T00:26:08 < catphish> the only tool seemed to be one-shot
2022-03-20T00:28:11 < srk> I see, never used that
2022-03-20T00:28:44 < srk> I think assembly4 is mostly positioning w/o constraint solving
2022-03-20T00:29:26 < catphish> i have no shame: https://i.imgur.com/hiEHXOT.png
2022-03-20T00:29:41 < catphish> you'd think i'd use a loop, but no
2022-03-20T00:30:43 < srk> :D
2022-03-20T00:31:28 < srk> corner cases too hard?!
2022-03-20T00:32:15 < catphish> i'll solve the corners shortly :)
2022-03-20T00:34:33 < catphish> actually they are hard :)
2022-03-20T00:35:29 < mawk> make them out of foam, they will be soft
2022-03-20T00:36:44 < catphish> lol
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2022-03-20T01:18:58 < cristian_c> mawk: I've made changes to blinky.c code
2022-03-20T01:20:38 < cristian_c> mawk: https://pastebin.com/fNtYUQdk
2022-03-20T01:31:09 < mawk> so you checked and the LED is on PB5?
2022-03-20T01:31:13 < mawk> and now it blinks?
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2022-03-20T01:45:48 < cristian_c> mawk: I checked as I said. Unfortunately, checking does not give enough informatikn. Btw, I've found this board uses PB5 for test led
2022-03-20T01:47:00 < cristian_c> mawk: I mean, I can't flash blinky.ihx because I get always swim error 0x04
2022-03-20T01:47:17 < cristian_c> whatever address and port i use in the code
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2022-03-20T01:54:10 < mawk> which commandline do you use?
2022-03-20T01:58:31 < cristian_c> mawk: stmflash -c stlinkv2 -p stm8s103f3 -w blinky.ihx
2022-03-20T01:58:42 < cristian_c> mawk: stm8flash -c stlinkv2 -p stm8s103f3 -w blinky.ihx
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2022-03-20T02:01:47 < cristian_c> I get such messages:
2022-03-20T02:02:04 < cristian_c> Determine FLASH area
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2022-03-20T02:03:29 < cristian_c> STLink: v2, JTAG: v17, SWIM: v4, VID: 8304, PID: 4837
2022-03-20T02:03:44 < cristian_c> SWIM error 0x04
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2022-03-20T04:45:32 < mawk> is it a real stlink cristian_c ?
2022-03-20T04:45:47 < mawk> is stm8f103f3 your exact chip? can you read that number off the chip on your board?
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2022-03-20T07:43:43 < ColdKeyboard> Any recommendation for a .bmp to C array converter?
2022-03-20T07:44:13 < ColdKeyboard> I can't find one that converts the image for "vertical" output (8 bits go vertically top-down, left-right)
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2022-03-20T08:26:15 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: can't you just transpose/rotate the image first?
2022-03-20T08:26:39 < jpa-> for custom formats, a custom python script is often easiest
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2022-03-20T10:08:05 < BrainDamage> when I want to embed jraphics, xpm format is quite nice and many programs support it, it's palette based
2022-03-20T10:24:51 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: xxd -i
2022-03-20T10:24:57 < qyx> or gimp
2022-03-20T10:25:01 < qyx> or as BrainDamage says
2022-03-20T10:25:28 < qyx> but idk for vertical output, you can flip/rotate beforehand
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2022-03-20T16:51:45 < karlp> huh, emeb's fifty four forty or fight hsa more meaning than I though
2022-03-20T16:51:57 < karlp> I knew this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpSzvlgQjc0 but had never realyl thought much about what it might mean.
2022-03-20T16:51:59 < karlp> TIL
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2022-03-20T17:33:35 < LikWidChz> anyone have experiences using analog sticks and dealing with some of them that are not so accurate? 
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2022-03-20T18:35:17 < kakium69> evenings
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2022-03-20T19:10:02 < bitmask> afternoons
2022-03-20T19:12:09 < Steffanx> Gooday
2022-03-20T19:15:56 < qyx> what is an analol stick?
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2022-03-20T19:27:37 < jpa-> accurate how?
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2022-03-20T19:46:16 < kakium69> analol as in potentiometer qyx? stick as in joystick?
2022-03-20T19:46:42 < karlp> they mean this dual pot based thing they got frrom aidsfruti
2022-03-20T19:47:14 < karlp> this wch-link is kinda neat, ground tx0 on power up, it toggles modes between cmsis-dap compatible for arm cortex, or "wchlink" special for riscv...
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2022-03-20T20:08:27 < karlp> neat the newest vendro tool allows you to configure your ram/flash split : https://bin.jvnv.net/file/75AR2.png
2022-03-20T20:10:08 < qyx> that's interesting
2022-03-20T20:10:24 < qyx> I wonder what is cheaper to make, sram or flash
2022-03-20T20:14:25 < mawk> I think flash
2022-03-20T20:14:45 < mawk> sram is complicated
2022-03-20T20:15:13 < mawk> there are more transistors per cell than in flash
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2022-03-20T20:47:54 < qyx> pros, how do I validate my DTS in u-boot?
2022-03-20T20:48:18 < qyx> make doesn't print any error while doing make -f ./scripts/Makefile.build obj=dts dtbs
2022-03-20T20:48:43 < qyx> but then it fails checking if the resulting *.dtb is present
2022-03-20T20:48:56 < mawk> what do you mean by validate
2022-03-20T20:48:59 < mawk> if it builds it's good
2022-03-20T20:49:37 < mawk> do make V=1 to get the exact commandline, then type it yourself
2022-03-20T20:49:48 < mawk> and see what errors you get when compiling the .dts files
2022-03-20T20:50:18 < srk> dt-schema?
2022-03-20T20:50:24 < qyx> FATAL ERROR: Unable to parse input tree
2022-03-20T20:51:40 < qyx> it said check dtb.pre.tmp for errors, I cannot see anything inside
2022-03-20T20:51:54 < qyx> oh there is a line number
2022-03-20T20:51:58  * qyx @ launrenceb mode
2022-03-20T20:52:08 < srk> dt is shitshow
2022-03-20T20:52:49 < qyx> this is the problem gpios = <&gpioa 13 GPIO_ACTIVE_LOW>;
2022-03-20T20:52:56 < qyx> I only modified the pin number
2022-03-20T20:57:59 < srk> for sanity checks you can use dtc
2022-03-20T21:02:30 < qyx> interrupts = <IT_OCP_BOOST 0>;
2022-03-20T21:02:35 < qyx> this line is problematic for example
2022-03-20T21:02:58 < qyx> I copied it from a devboard dts
2022-03-20T21:03:18 < qyx> actually, all interrupt lines
2022-03-20T21:05:54 < srk> same uboot versions?
2022-03-20T21:07:55 < qyx> cloned uboot, copied, modified, make, fail
2022-03-20T21:10:05 < mawk> try a make megaclean
2022-03-20T21:12:51 < qyx> #include <dt-bindings/gpio/gpio.h>
2022-03-20T21:12:57  * qyx dumb
2022-03-20T21:15:52 < mawk> was it the problem?
2022-03-20T21:16:02 < mawk> that it couldn't find the name GPIO_ACTIVE_LOW and then explode
2022-03-20T21:20:49 < qyx> yes
2022-03-20T21:22:25 < mawk> ah nice
2022-03-20T21:22:27 < mawk> it happened to me before
2022-03-20T21:23:38 < Steffanx> is dts really that bad in giving proper errors?
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2022-03-20T21:25:38 < qyx> if it said "hey you missed to define it" or "wtf is this"
2022-03-20T21:25:50 < qyx> instead of syntax error, I would have at least a clue
2022-03-20T21:25:56 < qyx> and not hunting for missing ;
2022-03-20T21:26:02 < Steffanx> exactly
2022-03-20T21:26:20 < qyx> also, missing ; makes a syntax error too instead of "you missed a semicolon after }"
2022-03-20T21:28:43 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-20T21:28:52 < mawk> well it's because new lines and spaces are ignored
2022-03-20T21:29:05 < mawk> that makes error reporting quite hard
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2022-03-20T21:29:31 < mawk> clang is getting better at it, but there's only so much they can do when the spec doesn't care about newlines
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2022-03-20T21:32:11 < Steffanx> like its hard to say "No clue what GPIO_ACTIVE_LOW is moite"
2022-03-20T21:32:36 < Steffanx> on line 11235
2022-03-20T21:33:28 < qyx> 	aliases {
2022-03-20T21:33:32 < qyx> 		i2c3 = &i2c4;
2022-03-20T21:33:33 < qyx> thanks.
2022-03-20T21:35:05 < srk> what do you expect when there's a C preprocessor step :D
2022-03-20T21:35:14 < mawk> yeah
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2022-03-20T21:41:01 < cristian_c> mawk: I can read 8s\03f3p6 on the chip
2022-03-20T21:42:45 < cristian_c> mawk: about stlinkv2 programmer, it is using stm32f103c8t6 as core
2022-03-20T21:43:28 < mawk> yeah that's normal
2022-03-20T21:43:39 < mawk> so your chip is stm8s0f3p6
2022-03-20T21:43:49 < mawk> or what
2022-03-20T21:44:07 < cristian_c> mawk: I can read 8s103f3p6 on the chip
2022-03-20T21:44:13 < mawk> STM8S003F3P6
2022-03-20T21:44:18 < cristian_c> no
2022-03-20T21:44:22 < mawk> STM8S103F3P6
2022-03-20T21:44:24 < mawk> sorry
2022-03-20T21:44:28 < cristian_c> yeah
2022-03-20T21:45:04 < mawk> can you use ST's official tool to program?
2022-03-20T21:45:14 < mawk> to rule out that your other tool isn't working properly
2022-03-20T21:45:53 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stvp-stm8.html
2022-03-20T21:46:18 < cristian_c> mawk: I'veminstalled stm8cubemx
2022-03-20T21:46:26 < cristian_c> *I've installed
2022-03-20T21:46:31 < Steffanx> mawk did you know your favourite frysian again man died today?
2022-03-20T21:47:26 < cristian_c> mawk: I don't  understand exactly what I should test using cubemx
2022-03-20T21:47:43 < mawk> who Steffanx ????
2022-03-20T21:47:58 < cristian_c> mawk: I've made a tedt also with arduino ide too, getting a weird result
2022-03-20T21:47:58 < mawk> cristian_c: cubemx is different from what I just linked
2022-03-20T21:48:02 < Steffanx> mawk: Piet Paulusma
2022-03-20T21:48:09 < mawk> what I just linked is to flash programs on the chip
2022-03-20T21:48:16 < mawk> cubemx is to generate code that works with your board
2022-03-20T21:48:24 < cristian_c> mawk: ok, I'm talking about what you suggested me yestrrday
2022-03-20T21:48:27 < mawk> poor piet
2022-03-20T21:48:48 < Steffanx> Every dutch guy knows who Piet is/was
2022-03-20T21:48:57 < mawk> using cubemx you select your chip, then you configure the pins by telling it where is the LED, where is the button
2022-03-20T21:49:05 < mawk> then you tell cubemx to generate the source code
2022-03-20T21:49:15 < cristian_c> mawk: I try to look at stvp-stm8, btw
2022-03-20T21:49:21 < mawk> you can select Makefile type project
2022-03-20T21:49:29 < mawk> yes that's for programming the board
2022-03-20T21:49:34 < mawk> you need it in addition to cubemx
2022-03-20T21:49:42 < cristian_c> mawk: I made some tests selecting my chip in cubemx
2022-03-20T21:49:42 < mawk> can you try to flash blinky.hex with it?
2022-03-20T21:49:51 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-20T21:49:58 < cristian_c> ok, I try
2022-03-20T21:50:15 < mawk> then a window opens where you can select what peripheral on which pins, in cubemx; you can select the clock speeds, and a lot of stuff in general
2022-03-20T21:50:28 < mawk> then you can generate the code, and you can open and modify the generated code, then compile it and flash it
2022-03-20T21:50:29 < mawk> and voilà
2022-03-20T21:50:44 < Steffanx> I used stm8 once, but i was lazy and used this weird french compiler/ide
2022-03-20T21:50:50 < mawk> cubemx generates the right code for the right chip, taking care of all the annoying low-level initialization that you would otherwise have to do yourself
2022-03-20T21:50:56 < mawk> sdcc Steffanx ?
2022-03-20T21:51:02 < Steffanx> stdv or something?
2022-03-20T21:51:06 < mawk> s d c c
2022-03-20T21:51:06 < Steffanx> stvd
2022-03-20T21:51:13 < mawk> :(
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2022-03-20T21:51:21 < mawk> no
2022-03-20T21:51:24 < Steffanx> Yeah stvd
2022-03-20T21:51:27 < mawk> stvd is the IDE of st
2022-03-20T21:51:33 < Steffanx> no 
2022-03-20T21:51:36 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stvd-stm8.html
2022-03-20T21:51:42 < mawk> look it says ST and it says STVD
2022-03-20T21:51:42 < Steffanx> or maybe it is now
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2022-03-20T21:51:56 < mawk> >Cosmic and Raisonance C compilers
2022-03-20T21:52:01 < mawk> maybe cristian_c can use it
2022-03-20T21:52:02 < cristian_c> mawk: irc client crashed
2022-03-20T21:52:05 < Steffanx> oh just the compiler then
2022-03-20T21:52:37 < mawk> yes cristian_c 
2022-03-20T21:52:41 < cristian_c> mawk: can I recover channel log somewhere?
2022-03-20T21:52:52 < cristian_c> (since I've lost that now)
2022-03-20T21:52:52 < mawk> I can send them
2022-03-20T21:52:54 < Steffanx> At the time Cosmic C was better for stm8. i think stm8 sdcc support is better now (?)
2022-03-20T21:53:00 < mawk> which logs do you want cristian_c ? just today?
2022-03-20T21:53:10 < cristian_c> mawk: last minutes
2022-03-20T21:53:13 < Steffanx> http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/2022-03.log
2022-03-20T21:53:21 < cristian_c> ok, thabis
2022-03-20T21:53:24 < mawk> cristian_c: https://bpa.st/IGRQ
2022-03-20T21:53:26 < cristian_c> *thanks
2022-03-20T21:53:26 < mawk> oh no
2022-03-20T21:53:28 < Steffanx> jpa- is everywhere, he even logs this channel.
2022-03-20T21:53:30 < mawk> steffie is fasterie
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2022-03-20T23:13:14 < Xogium> well crap. I had not noticed the price of that osd32mp15 SiP went from 39 euros to 62
2022-03-20T23:13:34 < qyx> syntax error again
2022-03-20T23:13:46 < qyx> Xogium: I am playing with stm32mp153 too now
2022-03-20T23:13:57 < Xogium> oh really ?
2022-03-20T23:14:13 < qyx> hardware apparently works, fighting with u-boot
2022-03-20T23:14:14 < Xogium> in SiP / SoM or just the SoC with your external ram and etc ?
2022-03-20T23:14:24 < qyx> discrete SoC + LPDDR3 + eMMC
2022-03-20T23:14:31 < Xogium> nice nice
2022-03-20T23:14:37 < Xogium> what's wrong with u-boot ?
2022-03-20T23:14:41 < Xogium> maybe I can help
2022-03-20T23:14:49 < qyx> syntax errors in device tree
2022-03-20T23:14:56 < Xogium> oh darn those are horrible
2022-03-20T23:14:59 < qyx> I am stuck again
2022-03-20T23:15:07 < Xogium> you know why ? Because dtc never reports them right
2022-03-20T23:15:26 < qyx> yeah we were talking about that a hour or two ago
2022-03-20T23:15:28 < Xogium> may I have a look at that dt or is it confidencial ?
2022-03-20T23:16:12 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/vMa3Q
2022-03-20T23:16:25 < qyx> Error: arch/arm/dts/stm32mp15-u-boot.dtsi:6.1-2 syntax error
2022-03-20T23:16:31 < qyx> I didn't touch that one
2022-03-20T23:16:39 < qyx> so I suppose the problem is before the #include
2022-03-20T23:16:50 < Xogium> hmm I'll see if I can spot something
2022-03-20T23:16:50 < qyx> but there is nothing
2022-03-20T23:20:32 < Xogium> this is sure a weird one…
2022-03-20T23:21:07 < Xogium> did you always have this error, or… did it start happening after you tried something ?
2022-03-20T23:21:48 < Xogium> the only thing that confuses me and my friend also remarked on, is does dtc supports // to indicate commands
2022-03-20T23:21:58 < Xogium> er
2022-03-20T23:22:01 < Xogium> comments sorry
2022-03-20T23:22:05 < Xogium> getting tired lol
2022-03-20T23:22:11 < qyx> yes replaced by /* */ and still the same
2022-03-20T23:23:16 < zyp> did you check dt-bindings/clock/stm32mp1-clksrc.h ?
2022-03-20T23:24:09 < qyx> I came to a conclusion it fucks with me
2022-03-20T23:24:17 < qyx> I commented out everything the the error is till there
2022-03-20T23:24:24 < zyp> haha
2022-03-20T23:25:41 < qyx> https://forum.digikey.com/t/debian-getting-started-with-the-stm32mp157/12459/1
2022-03-20T23:25:58 < qyx> this pro says I should compile u-boot with the DTS not ending with "*-u-boot"
2022-03-20T23:26:06 < Xogium> is it me or you're lacking the main / {
2022-03-20T23:26:10 < Xogium> maybe I missed it
2022-03-20T23:26:12 < qyx> make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=${CC} DEVICE_TREE=stm32mp157a-dk1 all
2022-03-20T23:26:39 < qyx> Xogium: there is one
2022-03-20T23:27:22 < qyx> but re: the tutorial, when I set no-u-boot DTS, it complains by DTS doesn't have binman section, which is expected
2022-03-20T23:27:42 < qyx> if I use -u-boot DTS with the proper binman and DDR settings, I get that syntax error
2022-03-20T23:28:17 < Xogium> hrmm
2022-03-20T23:28:49 < Xogium> is that dtsi custom ? The u-boot one ? I don't see it anywhere here
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2022-03-20T23:29:28 < Xogium> are you using upstream u-boot or st one by the way ?
2022-03-20T23:29:52 < qyx> upstream, last one from 2022
2022-03-20T23:29:58 < Xogium> ah
2022-03-20T23:30:01 < qyx> the dtsi is unmodified
2022-03-20T23:33:36 < Xogium> okay this is super weird. I haven't seen anything quite like this before
2022-03-20T23:36:07 < qyx> compiling now for the default devboard
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2022-03-20T23:36:39 < qyx> works.
2022-03-20T23:37:13 < Xogium> so its something your dt is doing… but what
2022-03-20T23:38:58 < Xogium> I'd try and remove things from the dt, and readd them one by one, see when it does it again
2022-03-20T23:39:11 < Xogium> well not remove but comment out
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2022-03-20T23:39:57 < Xogium> but yeah device trees are awesome. Except when dtc tells you nonsense
2022-03-20T23:41:01 < qyx> oh I have a possible suspect
2022-03-20T23:41:13 < Xogium> oh really ?
2022-03-20T23:41:23 < Xogium> the usual suspect, like in the movie ? ;p
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2022-03-20T23:42:47 < Xogium> honestly dtc is… really meh. The other day it threw syntax error at me on a totally unrelated line, because I forgot a } at one place
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2022-03-20T23:43:13 < Xogium> it said like 64, when there were nothing like { near to it, and the error was on line 23
2022-03-20T23:43:56 < qyx> so the problem was suffix of the file
2022-03-20T23:44:02 < Xogium> huh ?
2022-03-20T23:44:03 < qyx> it must be *.dtsi and not *.dts
2022-03-20T23:44:21 < Xogium> but… there are dts
2022-03-20T23:44:44 < Xogium> dtsi are files you have to include in your main board's… Like
2022-03-20T23:45:06 < Xogium> like the stm32mp15xx-dkx.dtsi gets included in even stm32mp157f-dk2.dts
2022-03-20T23:45:14 < qyx> yes but I didn'tcatch this because the *.u-boot.dtsi is included automatically
2022-03-20T23:45:37 < Xogium> so… you work on a dtsi for that board, and will make the dts later ?
2022-03-20T23:45:50 < Xogium> I thought it was dts you were working on
2022-03-20T23:45:58 < qyx> the board have a dts and then an unrelated dtsi
2022-03-20T23:46:10 < qyx> related, but
2022-03-20T23:46:36 < qyx> as I understand it there are dts used both by u-boot and linux kernel (and, ATF)
2022-03-20T23:46:43 < Xogium> so really, what differenciates a dts from a dtsi ?
2022-03-20T23:46:49 < Xogium> yes
2022-03-20T23:46:50 < qyx> and there are dtsi used by u-boot
2022-03-20T23:47:10 < Xogium> and kernel and atf too
2022-03-20T23:47:12 < qyx> apparently it expected it to be dtsi so it failed to include it properly at the beginning
2022-03-20T23:47:35 < qyx> idk really, it works now
2022-03-20T23:47:44 < qyx> I mean, it throws a different error now :P
2022-03-20T23:49:34 < qyx> whoa it compiled
2022-03-20T23:50:02 < Xogium> https://bootlin.com/pub/conferences/2013/elce/petazzoni-device-tree-dummies/petazzoni-device-tree-dummies.pdf
2022-03-20T23:50:10 < Xogium> on page 16, device tree inclusion
2022-03-20T23:50:27 < Xogium> maybe helps you understand why this was required
2022-03-20T23:50:56 < qyx> now I need to shrink uboot to < 256 K
2022-03-20T23:51:51 < Xogium> only the spl needs to be 256kb or less, by the way
2022-03-20T23:53:00 < Xogium> though if your spl is ATF you don't need to shrink u-boot
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2022-03-20T23:54:29 < Xogium> ATF itself is needing 256 kb or less, but bl33 which can be u-boot and which is combined in a fip image doesn't need to be limited like that
2022-03-20T23:54:55 < qyx> I don't want to deal with secure boot or anything related now
2022-03-20T23:55:02 < qyx> and don't need ext4, networking, etc
2022-03-20T23:55:07 < Xogium> right so spl it is for u-boot
2022-03-20T23:55:19 < qyx> so either spl or less than 256 K
2022-03-20T23:55:43 < Xogium> well I mean, either way you need spl afaik. Unless you want to use falcon mode
2022-03-20T23:55:58 < Xogium> then you'd need only spl and no main u-boot
2022-03-20T23:57:22 < Xogium> but boot rom always wants a partition on micro sd labled fsbl1 and fsbl2, or if you have a very recent ATF you could stick in the boot0/boot1 partition of eMMC, if you use that
2022-03-20T23:57:42 < Xogium> https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/STM32MP15_ROM_code_overview
2022-03-20T23:58:11 < qyx> I have a NOR flash for boot
2022-03-20T23:58:28 < qyx> which will contain all bootloaders and the kernel
2022-03-20T23:58:46 < qyx> emmc will contain only the root filesystem
2022-03-20T23:59:02 < qyx> at least that's the plan
2022-03-20T23:59:47 < Xogium> ah
--- Day changed ma maalis 21 2022
2022-03-21T00:00:03 < Xogium> The ROM code looks for FSBL1 at offset LBA0 and FSBL2 at offset LBA512.
2022-03-21T00:00:07 < Xogium> for spi nor
2022-03-21T00:00:37 < qyx> only the first one needs to be valid?
2022-03-21T00:00:59 < Xogium> I believe so but if it isn't, rom will try to load the second
2022-03-21T00:01:07 < qyx> I didn't check all the docs in details yet
2022-03-21T00:01:23 < Xogium> let me read again
2022-03-21T00:01:32 < Xogium> The NOR Flash contains two copies of FSBL. The ROM code tries to load and launch the first copy. In case of failure, it then tries to load the second copy.
2022-03-21T00:01:58 < Xogium> so it might at most yell at you for not having a second copy
2022-03-21T00:05:31 < Xogium> god spi-nand is way more complicated than spi nor :
2022-03-21T00:05:42 < Xogium> needs all these offset and block size settings
2022-03-21T00:10:32 < qyx> I better paid 8 € for a 64 MB SPI NOR
2022-03-21T00:13:03 < Xogium> wow
2022-03-21T00:13:10 < Xogium> pricy
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2022-03-21T00:29:30 < catphish> i enjoy this oddly specific specification: "Shall not become detached or loosened when placed at 750mm and dropped to concrete eight times"
2022-03-21T00:31:25 < mawk> nice
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2022-03-21T00:43:02 < catphish> i find buying connectors insanely time consuming
2022-03-21T00:43:30 < catphish> you need to work out all the different parts needed to assemble the connector
2022-03-21T00:43:38 < catphish> then find no supplier has the full set, then start over
2022-03-21T00:45:38 < qyx> you can open a Harting catalog for a better spent night
2022-03-21T00:56:21  * catphish looks
2022-03-21T00:56:48 < Steffanx> Sounds like perfect literature for during the toilet visits
2022-03-21T00:57:40 < Steffanx> Didnt you play with nrf and zephyr lately mr mawk?
2022-03-21T00:58:41 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1s5PWNqj7Y musics
2022-03-21T01:00:10 < catphish> i basically just want a 12 pin panel mount connector, like this https://www.amphenol-sine.com/AT04-12PA-BL05-12-Position-Receptacle-Flange-Mount-Connector-Pin-Gray-Keyed-A-Enhanced-Key-with-Endcap-Comparable-to-PN-DT04-12PA-BL05_p_9742.html
2022-03-21T01:00:22 < catphish> finding a full set of parts is challenging
2022-03-21T01:00:23 < karlp> woop woop
2022-03-21T01:00:33 < karlp> zyp: laks miniblink on ch32v307 :)
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2022-03-21T01:05:50 < Steffanx> kakium69 i was going to give you some terrible shitty music in return, but instead this was in the youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pa9x9fZBtY
2022-03-21T01:06:41 < Steffanx> Ok here you have the shitty music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwgJJ7HdPpI (i once knew that guy and .. he's pretty serious about his music)
2022-03-21T01:07:55 < karlp> wat am I listening to and looking at?!
2022-03-21T01:08:35 < Steffanx> a guy doing a banjo solo. or whatever it supposed to be
2022-03-21T01:09:06 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2022-03-21T01:09:54 < Steffanx> Maybe mawk can explain how much drugs you need to enjoy it
2022-03-21T01:12:40 < qyx> liebe damen, I am out of ideas on how to load anything to the stm32mp15x
2022-03-21T01:13:27 < qyx> uart boot works, but runs nothing and I have no console, SWD doesnt work with cube programmer, SD cannot be used, because romcode doesn't support loading from SDMMC3
2022-03-21T01:13:31 < kakium69> Steffanx: virtuoso
2022-03-21T01:13:32 < catphish> ah yay, found the document that at least tells me what parts i need
2022-03-21T01:15:24 < kakium69> Steffanx: you can tell from the way he improvise he is very skilled
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2022-03-21T01:16:59 < Steffanx> He better starts using those skills kakium69 
2022-03-21T01:19:04 < catphish> me? :D
2022-03-21T01:26:15 < Steffanx> Idk about you catphish  :P
2022-03-21T01:26:17 < mawk> yes I did Steffanx 
2022-03-21T01:26:23 < mawk> why that
2022-03-21T01:26:31 < catphish> omg praise to this ebay seller https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143785309507?hash=item217a45b543:g:IK0AAOSwaHlfhab1
2022-03-21T01:27:02 < mawk> are you still looking for GLANS?
2022-03-21T01:27:17 < catphish> yes
2022-03-21T01:27:27 < mawk> dirty
2022-03-21T01:28:29 < catphish> i need several: 200A single pole, found, 12 pin low power (this one i'm just looking for a seller of), and a 4 pin 22A+ connector (not looked yet)
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2022-03-21T01:38:07 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvUSLKB9UMs musicsvideo Steffanx
2022-03-21T01:38:11 < qyx> weipu sp21 for the last one
2022-03-21T01:38:25 < qyx> hm but the 4 pole version is not 22 A rated probably
2022-03-21T01:39:57 < catphish> actually it might only need to be 2 poles
2022-03-21T01:40:41 < catphish> qyx: it's 25A in 4 pole, thanks
2022-03-21T01:40:42 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2022-03-21T01:41:01 < catphish> also, right angle connector is a huge plus, which they have
2022-03-21T01:41:33 < qyx> they also have 3+2
2022-03-21T01:41:44 < qyx> 2 poles are 32 A and the rest is lower
2022-03-21T01:42:07 < catphish> i'm looking at the crimp versions
2022-03-21T01:42:27 < catphish> which are 25A for 2,3,4 pole
2022-03-21T01:44:35 < catphish> i'm building a battery enclosure, it has 2 x 1-pole 200A connectors for the main motor output, 4-pole 22A for charger and DC-DC converter, then a 12-pole connector for low voltage (BMS power supply, CAN, relay drive lines)
2022-03-21T01:45:43 < catphish> SP21 is lovely, 500VAC rated too
2022-03-21T01:45:59 < catphish> and crimpable
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2022-03-21T01:53:45 < catphish> though i can't seem to buy crimp ones
2022-03-21T01:53:55 < catphish> solder will be fine
2022-03-21T01:58:03 < catphish> i think the specs are somewhat dependent on who you buy your SP21 from, these will do me though, screw or solder mount https://docs.rs-online.com/1509/A700000007156338.pdf
2022-03-21T01:58:10 < catphish> thanks again
2022-03-21T01:58:42 < catphish> interestingly, these come in 12 pin too, so might use them for my 12 pin connector :)
2022-03-21T02:06:13 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-21T02:08:31 < catphish> this one looks wonderfully evil, it's not suitable at all, i just like the photo https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-circular-connectors/1797944
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2022-03-21T02:19:57 < specing> catphish: nice, what is the battery going to power?
2022-03-21T02:21:26 < qyx> half assed software, die
2022-03-21T02:22:16 < qyx> apparently nobody maintains u-boot configurations and tools in upstream for mp15xx
2022-03-21T02:22:56 < specing> catphish: I bought some andersons from china, silver plated copper they say.... well, they don't stick to magnets so there's some hope to those claims being correct
2022-03-21T02:23:53 < catphish> specing: my car :)
2022-03-21T02:25:02 < specing> catphish: was it originally electric or is it your conversion?
2022-03-21T02:25:55 < catphish> specing: my conversion
2022-03-21T02:26:09 < specing> catphish: nice
2022-03-21T02:26:11 < catphish> yay for someone i haven't already bored with this :)
2022-03-21T02:26:15 < specing> catphish: which car is it?
2022-03-21T02:26:56 < specing> catphish: are you active on endless sphere?
2022-03-21T02:27:25 < catphish> VX220. TLDR: https://i.imgur.com/WgfaL9a.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3vwJD8d.jpg
2022-03-21T02:27:33 < catphish> specing: i don't even know what that is
2022-03-21T02:28:13 < specing> catphish: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/
2022-03-21T02:28:34 < catphish> interesting, never seen that
2022-03-21T02:28:40 < specing> https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=a16e00f5a89fe69698e83a37611ced2e
2022-03-21T02:28:45 < specing> section for cars, etc
2022-03-21T02:28:55 < catphish> my build is documented on this forum: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/vx220-with-tesla-sdu.205616/
2022-03-21T02:32:34 < specing> > Appropriate replacements to power the cabin heating system 
2022-03-21T02:32:40 < specing> catphish: fossil fuel heater hahahHAHAHA
2022-03-21T02:33:40 < catphish> cabin heater is done :) i didn't do a log burner
2022-03-21T02:34:17 < catphish> https://www.diyelectriccar.com/attachments/qvfrenb-jpg.128010/
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2022-03-21T02:38:58 < kakium69> why not have a fireplace in a car?
2022-03-21T02:41:02 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-03-21T02:42:07 < kakium69> https://youtu.be/NdCfZQsZEHQ?t=18 here is fireplace in a car
2022-03-21T02:42:24 < kakium69> sorry. wood stove*
2022-03-21T02:43:05 < catphish> full set of connectors: https://i.imgur.com/4BgQ2T0.png
2022-03-21T02:45:00 < catphish> i will look again to see if there are any automotive rated options though
2022-03-21T02:45:15 < specing> catphish: is that a resistive heater?
2022-03-21T02:45:31 < catphish> specing: yes
2022-03-21T02:45:33 < specing> I'd totaly like to see a fireplace inside a car lmao
2022-03-21T02:45:48 < catphish> 300V goes in, heat comes out
2022-03-21T02:46:00 < specing> Shame, waste of energy
2022-03-21T02:46:10 < specing> fossil fuels are really great for this application
2022-03-21T02:46:29 < specing> well, unless you go the heat pump route
2022-03-21T02:46:31 < catphish> it's not a waste of energy, it's 100% efficient
2022-03-21T02:46:33 < specing> actually
2022-03-21T02:46:46 < specing> catphish: why not get a $300 aircon and mount it inside a car?
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2022-03-21T02:47:04 < specing> I saw mini-splits for that kind of money...
2022-03-21T02:47:06 < catphish> because of all the obvious reasons :)
2022-03-21T02:47:20 < qyx> sounds like a great idea
2022-03-21T02:47:33 < specing> catphish: it's 100% efficient if you don't consider charging the battery >_>
2022-03-21T02:48:57 < specing> Do production EVs have resistive heaters or heat pumps for cabin heating?
2022-03-21T02:49:15 < specing> I'd think they all have heat pumps, as they have to do cooling anyway
2022-03-21T02:50:37 < catphish> specing: i don't actually know, depends on the age of the thing, amazingly some have resistive water heaters connected to the original heating radiator
2022-03-21T02:50:58 < catphish> but only really early ones where they needed to get products out fast based on existing cars
2022-03-21T02:51:14 < catphish> i'd hope heat pumps now, though i have no idea how good those are at heating fast
2022-03-21T02:51:26 < catphish> so possibly heat pump + resistive heater
2022-03-21T02:51:41 < specing> catphish: so nissan leaf kind of early or even earlier?
2022-03-21T02:51:45 < lemmi> heatpumps are available, but they can cost extra. most cost and energy effiecient heating in EVs is usually just getting heated seats, so you don't require the cabin heated too much
2022-03-21T02:51:53 < catphish> specing: i'm not sure
2022-03-21T02:52:01 < catphish> but yes, maybe early leaf era
2022-03-21T02:52:05 < specing> catphish: I have a residential 500W aircon and it heats ridiculously fast
2022-03-21T02:52:19 < specing> catphish: push the button and in 20s hot air comes out
2022-03-21T02:52:31 < lemmi> so in certain situations heatpumps can be less efficient than resistiv heaters for the seat to be compfortable
2022-03-21T02:52:49 < lemmi> and they are way faster
2022-03-21T02:52:57 < catphish> this is a nice cable :) slightly more purpose made :) https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-vehicle-connectors/1244110
2022-03-21T02:53:03 < catphish> *plug
2022-03-21T02:53:58 < catphish> my seats barely even have padding, heating them is out of the question :)
2022-03-21T02:54:44 < catphish> 3kW heater will drain my batteries in 6 hours, i'd better not go on any long cold drived
2022-03-21T02:55:06 < specing> catphish: having a fossil fuel heater would also help you if your system stops functioning
2022-03-21T02:55:15 < qyx> better insulate your windows with a 10 cm thick rockwool
2022-03-21T02:55:18 < specing> and you have to sit there in the cold waiting for towing to arrive
2022-03-21T02:55:42 < catphish> lol my car likely won't even be used in the cold
2022-03-21T02:55:47 < lemmi> especially for longer trips, heating isn't really a cencern
2022-03-21T02:55:55 < qyx> wtf fossil fuel heater in an electric car?
2022-03-21T02:56:04 < catphish> i assumed he was joking
2022-03-21T02:56:13 < specing> it's not a joke
2022-03-21T02:56:23 < catphish> then you're missing the point
2022-03-21T02:56:23 < specing> truckers have it, dedicated fossil fuel cabin heaters
2022-03-21T02:56:40 < qyx> electric trucks?
2022-03-21T02:56:46 < qyx> we are talking about EVs
2022-03-21T02:56:47 < catphish> the car worked perfectly well on fossil fuel before :D
2022-03-21T02:56:48 < specing> qyx: regular trucks (semis)
2022-03-21T02:56:56 < qyx> yes, fossil fuel heaters are a thing
2022-03-21T02:57:00 < qyx> but not in a fucking EV
2022-03-21T02:57:06 < specing> why not :|
2022-03-21T02:57:26 < catphish> because it wouldn't be running on electric any more
2022-03-21T02:57:37 < specing> I'd understand it if it was a heat pump, but resistive heating...
2022-03-21T02:57:49 < specing> catphish: it would, for tax purposes?
2022-03-21T02:57:56 < catphish> that's hardly the point
2022-03-21T02:58:07 < lemmi> again. resistiv heating isn't the worst idea, depending on what you are trying to heat. 
2022-03-21T02:58:30 < catphish> i'm not spending £10,000 and a man-year to save £200 in vehicle tax :)
2022-03-21T02:58:52 < specing> 10000?
2022-03-21T02:59:07 < specing> If anything you are paying lots more for extra battery capacity used for heating
2022-03-21T02:59:07 < catphish> that's the approx cost of the parts to convert the car
2022-03-21T02:59:13 < specing> ah
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2022-03-21T03:03:24 < karlp> lol, this mounriver studio thing offered up upgrade the wch-link firmware.
2022-03-21T03:03:29 < karlp> ok, no problem.
2022-03-21T03:03:42 < karlp> they also provie a closed source binary openocd that supports this wch link
2022-03-21T03:03:57 < karlp> now, after upgrading, that binary is spitting out warnings: Warn : The debug interface has been opened,there is a risk of code leakage ,ensure that the debug interface has been closed before leaving factory !
2022-03-21T03:04:09 < karlp> so mounriver upgrade process forgot to "lock" it again,
2022-03-21T03:04:34 < catphish> qyx: i'll prob use this instead of the SP21 by the way, slightly more application specific: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electric-vehicle-connectors/1244109
2022-03-21T03:04:55 < karlp> fuck yes, I have miniblink on this ch582 too.
2022-03-21T03:04:58 < karlp> whee
2022-03-21T03:08:40 < qyx> I have no blink on mp1
2022-03-21T03:11:25 < karlp> ch58x is nothing like ch32v, it feels a lot like it it is 8051 stuff ported to riscv
2022-03-21T03:11:37 < karlp> lots of 8 and 16bit registers, addresses scattered all over the place
2022-03-21T03:11:46 < karlp> ch32v looked like ~stm32 style.
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2022-03-21T03:55:22 < qyx> finally got a PC address when the u-boot SPL is stuck
2022-03-21T03:55:23 < englishman> there are electric school busses here that have diesel heaters
2022-03-21T03:55:32 < englishman> because it is still more efficient
2022-03-21T03:57:36 < englishman> anyway he is from the uk. I’m sure he can place some stones in his fireplace then bring them into the car to warm it up if he needs
2022-03-21T03:59:20 < qyx> a water bottle has higher specific heat capacity
2022-03-21T04:01:26 < ColdKeyboard> Do you guys use any framework for testing firmware+hardware? Any recommendations?
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2022-03-21T04:35:38 < qyx> any ideas why I cannot halt all cores?
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2022-03-21T11:48:04 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: renode?
2022-03-21T11:48:22 < Steffanx> Mawk: just curious about the zephyr stuff. I tried riot os with nimble. Was easy to setup and get something running.
2022-03-21T11:48:40 < karlp> was that on nrf52 or 53 or 51 steff?
2022-03-21T11:48:40 < mawk> I don't want no riot in my chips
2022-03-21T11:48:45 < Steffanx> Never looked at the current consumption until yesterday and it does 260uA when idle :S
2022-03-21T11:48:53 < mawk> perfect
2022-03-21T11:49:01 < karlp> riot devs always seemed a little arrogant, but perhaps I was just sensitive to little things :)
2022-03-21T11:49:23 < Steffanx> It seems low power things are hardly implemented for many targets
2022-03-21T11:49:28 < mawk> zephyr is relatively easy to set up too
2022-03-21T11:49:37 < mawk> but low power isn't implemented for some targets as well
2022-03-21T11:49:39 < mawk> I don't know how many
2022-03-21T11:50:01 < Steffanx> And since nordic is in the zephyr boat it must be OK
2022-03-21T11:50:02 < karlp> silabs freertos provided port is low power :)
2022-03-21T11:50:42 < Steffanx> Hah, but im already running on nrf52832 and not going to a new board
2022-03-21T11:50:59 < Steffanx> *To Design a new board
2022-03-21T11:51:54 < Steffanx> I would go OS-less if it was easy enough.
2022-03-21T11:52:07 < Steffanx> Easy enough to get nimble running 
2022-03-21T11:52:24 < Steffanx> Except for the shitty awful device tree shit, mawk?
2022-03-21T11:52:29 < mawk> no I like device tree
2022-03-21T11:52:31 < mawk> it was easy to set up
2022-03-21T11:52:45 < mawk> I took the device tree of a board mostly similar to mine and modified it and that's it
2022-03-21T11:52:55 < Steffanx> Ask Mr q about it
2022-03-21T11:53:27 < mawk> I did device trees on raspberry pi and beaglebone black as well, to enable or disable stuff
2022-03-21T11:53:28 < mawk> very easy
2022-03-21T11:53:33 < mawk> qyx: do you not like device trees??
2022-03-21T11:53:40 < Steffanx> Until you randomly syntax error
2022-03-21T11:54:46 < Xogium> yeah I like device trees too
2022-03-21T11:54:51 < Xogium> the only bad thing is dtc
2022-03-21T11:55:04 < Xogium> because it doesn't give you the correct line number when you have an error
2022-03-21T11:55:23 < Xogium> the name of that tool always made me laugh because in french dtc is well
2022-03-21T11:55:31 < Xogium> in your a**
2022-03-21T11:55:34 < karlp> I like the concept of device trees, but at least in zephyr, it was "but this is _different_ device trees"
2022-03-21T11:55:50 < srk> great :D
2022-03-21T11:55:53 < karlp> and honestly, I didn't like that zephyr was "zephyr drivers, then st hal drivers, all the way down"
2022-03-21T11:57:13 < srk> rpi foundation with their outdated device trees / dt overlays and tooling to apply them on boot is another fun source of confusion
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2022-03-21T12:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> Warning thread, rant/question.... RE JLCPCB https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1505853824644399104
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2022-03-21T12:43:47 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: are you not circumventing their multiple PCB rule by having dummy connections going between PCB parts you plan to mechanically separate?
2022-03-21T12:43:58 < Mangy_Dog> not this time
2022-03-21T12:44:06 < Mangy_Dog> they actually no longer accept that rule
2022-03-21T12:44:08 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2022-03-21T12:44:22 < Mangy_Dog> i paid for the extra designs
2022-03-21T12:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> but thats all beside the point
2022-03-21T12:44:46 < PaulFertser> Oh, so it was all super fair from your side this time.
2022-03-21T12:45:06 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2022-03-21T12:45:22 < Mangy_Dog> in the end it was a 200 quid order
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2022-03-21T12:46:55 < PaulFertser> 50 GBP lost in currency conversion for a 200 GBP order? That seems unreasonable. Were you paying via PayPal?
2022-03-21T12:47:05 < Mangy_Dog> no card
2022-03-21T12:47:18 < Mangy_Dog> wish i did go with paypal tbh
2022-03-21T12:47:21 < Mangy_Dog> i will in the future
2022-03-21T12:49:33 < Mangy_Dog> maybe its time to switch to PCBway
2022-03-21T12:55:21 < srk> PCBWay is cool
2022-03-21T12:55:52 < srk> building some sort of PC case controller?
2022-03-21T12:56:23 < Mangy_Dog> hardware monitor with rgb controller
2022-03-21T13:01:45 < srk> cool. I need a similar thingie for IBM mobo that runs non-IBM fans too fast
2022-03-21T13:02:48 < srk> 25khz PWM to drive fans and fake RPM to feed back to mobo, maybe also sense the PWM it sends
2022-03-21T13:04:02 < Mangy_Dog> if you know teh ratio of how wrong it all is
2022-03-21T13:04:13 < Mangy_Dog> you could make a intermediate signal converter
2022-03-21T13:08:08 < srk> yeah, pretty much. but probably adjust based on temperature from ACPI
2022-03-21T13:09:30 < srk> or couple of thermistors instead
2022-03-21T13:14:40 < srk> reminds me of Noctua Low Noise Adapters which is just a 4 pin fan cable with resistor :D
2022-03-21T13:28:41 < Steffanx> Works fine though 
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2022-03-21T13:58:05 < tct> morning folks
2022-03-21T14:02:14 < tct> I´m currently dealing with an interesting issue. STM32H750 and an I2C slave. The moment that the slave ´sees´ his address on the bus the I2C bus levels are dropping from 3.3V down to 1.94V.
2022-03-21T14:02:20 < tct> have a screengrab: https://abload.de/img/ro_i2c_levelssnk6a.png
2022-03-21T14:02:35 < tct> from top to bottom: SCL (digital), SDA (digital), SCL (analog), SDA (analog)
2022-03-21T14:02:42 < tct> any wild guesses?
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2022-03-21T14:27:17 < tct> lol, seems like the EE designing the board forgot to actually hook up the 3V3 supply of the I2C slave ship so it´s being back-fed through the safety diodes...
2022-03-21T14:28:58 < qyx> replace pullups with 220R, #profit
2022-03-21T14:29:56 < benishor> https://www.humblebundle.com/stand-with-ukraine-bundle
2022-03-21T14:29:58 < bitmask> are polymers considered crystals or amorphous? 
2022-03-21T14:31:55 < bitmask> looks like amorphous or both
2022-03-21T14:31:55 < tct> lol qyx 
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2022-03-21T14:40:21 < bitmask> finally figured out the right way to get past the new york times paywall
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2022-03-21T14:58:10 < bitmask> how do chrome addons work, is it easy to change the html of a specific site?
2022-03-21T15:04:46 < mawk> yes bitmask 
2022-03-21T15:05:05 < mawk> chrome addons is a piece of javascript that can run whenever a page with a certain URL pattern is laoded
2022-03-21T15:05:11 < mawk> then you can modify the dom and stuff
2022-03-21T15:05:15 < bitmask> i see
2022-03-21T15:05:19 < mawk> you can also do it with a userscript with tampermonkey, it's easier
2022-03-21T15:05:21 < mawk> for small changes
2022-03-21T15:05:34 < bitmask> oh nice
2022-03-21T15:05:38 < bitmask> i'll do that
2022-03-21T15:05:38 < mawk> chrome extensions can do more than that, they can have their own page, their own handler running in the background, etc
2022-03-21T15:13:35 < bitmask> delete element with id: gateway-content (removes overlay)  ,  delete div element with class: css-gx5sib (removes gradient)  ,  remove class: css-mcm29f (lets you scroll)
2022-03-21T15:13:52 < bitmask> for all you nyt readers...
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2022-03-21T16:14:39 < mawk> you can do that with adblock I think bitmask 
2022-03-21T16:14:43 < mawk> it lets you do simple things like that
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2022-03-21T16:51:30 < ventyl> you can write a plugin, which turns all smileys to curse words. there's one plugin called mimi-tourette, which does that for local "mother" portal. it tends to be full of smiles. that plugin turns reading that portal into weird-but-funny experience
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2022-03-21T17:45:08 < bitmask> oh i already did it
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2022-03-21T18:02:36 < Steffanx> Youre awesome bitmask  
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2022-03-21T18:04:37 < bitmask> oh shush
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2022-03-21T21:27:19 < tct> just located a fully sealed bag of 10pcs STM32F407ZET6 in our components storage.
2022-03-21T21:27:36 < tct> I guess our company value just doubled.
2022-03-21T21:34:32 < josuah> tct: haha, possibly
2022-03-21T21:34:53 < josuah> scavenging parts from broken electronic devices is more tempting than ever
2022-03-21T21:35:37 < Steffanx> Im more curious why you inventory system didnt know about this tct
2022-03-21T21:36:45 < tct> ;)
2022-03-21T21:36:56 < tct> Also got 13 ethernet PHYs, 10 of them sealed as well
2022-03-21T21:41:40 < Xogium> tct: so, did you guys decide on what SoM to pick ?
2022-03-21T21:42:36 < Xogium> even the rpi cm4 is out of stock these days… Raspberry pi foundation swearing to provide the thing until at least 2028. I guess not
2022-03-21T21:43:39 < Xogium> the rpi 4 I found was the 8 gb ram model… And it was selling for $200+
2022-03-21T21:44:49 < tct> Xogium, decided not to pick any SoM and do the entire thing ourselves. more flexibility. Talked to several SoM vendors and pretty much all out of stock. best SoM option for us would be available in september at a quantity of 10pcs
2022-03-21T21:45:01 < Xogium> yeah, erk
2022-03-21T21:45:24 < Xogium> my whole project I wanted to do with that osd32mp15 SiP pretty much went out the window
2022-03-21T21:45:50 < tct> yeah, I also have hobby projects on halt. much more severe for $company tho.
2022-03-21T21:45:54 < josuah> Xogium: SoM with how much packing? To run Linux?
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2022-03-21T21:46:32 < Xogium> josuah: yeah, stm32mp157c SoC, a 4 kb eeprom, lots of passive components, 512 mb of ram
2022-03-21T21:46:32 < Steffanx> So what processor will it be tct?
2022-03-21T21:46:53 < josuah> TIL: SiP
2022-03-21T21:47:09 < Xogium> yeah its a SiP… I was never clear on SoM vs SiP tbh
2022-03-21T21:48:34 < Steffanx> https://octavosystems.com/2018/02/22/sip-vs-som/ must be clearish Xogium
2022-03-21T21:48:38 < tct> Steffanx, RISCV
2022-03-21T21:48:51 < Xogium> its also crazy how they manage to stuff everything in a 18x18 mm chip, the same size as the SoC
2022-03-21T21:49:33 < Xogium> Steffanx: ;) thank
2022-03-21T21:49:36 < Steffanx> You're not being helpful tct
2022-03-21T21:51:15 < tct> Steffanx, it´s gonna be an FPGA with a RISC-V soft-core. what else would you like to know?
2022-03-21T21:51:30 < Steffanx> That's more precise ty :P
2022-03-21T21:51:38 < tct> :*
2022-03-21T21:52:34 < tct> obviously the FPGA we´d like is unobtanium as well
2022-03-21T21:52:45 < tct> so we have to settle with something in a QFN package -> very, very little I/O
2022-03-21T21:53:52 < josuah> tct: you needed a Xilinx one?
2022-03-21T21:54:28 < tct> nope. best wish would be an intel cyclone. alternatively a lattice MachXO3D (which we do get - but not in the package we want)
2022-03-21T21:54:31 < josuah> At prototyping quantities, or enough to start production right away?
2022-03-21T21:54:33 < tct> so we just ordered 25 of them
2022-03-21T21:54:36 < PaulFertser> What do you think about https://pine64.com/product-category/sopine/ modules?
2022-03-21T21:54:49 < tct> josuah, ideally 50 to 100pcs but anything >20pcs would be sufficient for now.
2022-03-21T21:56:13 < josuah> tct: is it hard to do a PCB for something like an FPGA or an MCU? maybe it depends on how used to it one is...
2022-03-21T21:56:23 < PaulFertser> "Estimated availability: Spotty availability until late Q1 2022"
2022-03-21T21:56:32 < tct> josuah, nah, itś not. doing it all the time.
2022-03-21T21:57:17 < josuah> Well... Let's try it some day then. :)
2022-03-21T21:57:28 < Steffanx> why not start today?
2022-03-21T21:57:37 < tct> because no shit is available? :p
2022-03-21T21:57:46 < Steffanx> By the time you're done the part must be available :P
2022-03-21T21:57:48 < josuah> Steffanx: because today is over in 3 hours  :)
2022-03-21T21:58:05 < Steffanx> I didnt say be done today, start today ;)
2022-03-21T21:58:08 < josuah> and I have anonther "let's try it some day" ongoing now :P
2022-03-21T21:58:21 < englishman> haha paul
2022-03-21T21:59:20 < josuah> Steffanx: all right then! https://hackaday.com/2019/07/29/a-new-kicad-tutorial-hits-the-scene/ - https://github.com/MalphasWats/hawk/blob/master/articles/creating-the-schematic.markdown - https://hackaday.com/2016/09/21/creating-a-pcb-in-everything-introduction/#series-of-posts-box - https://hackaday.com/2017/07/02/pcb-solder-pad-repair-cleanup/
2022-03-21T21:59:28 < Steffanx> tct you the time you're done at least 3 parts on the board will be unavailable as well
2022-03-21T21:59:58 < tct> Steffanx, yeah, certainly feels like it.
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2022-03-21T22:17:44 < josuah> tct: when you design a dev board, is it through KiCAD, then PCBWay/OSHPark/DirtyPCB/SeeedStudio/...?
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2022-03-21T22:21:44 < Steffanx> pros use altium
2022-03-21T22:28:00 < qyx> josuah: kicad + aisler
2022-03-21T22:28:54 < josuah> Steffanx, qyx, tct, everyone: thanks for these precious hints!
2022-03-21T22:29:14 < tct> josuah, I used mostly Altium, Diptrace and KiCAD. as far as PCB suppliers go, I order almost exclusively from eurocircuits.com
2022-03-21T22:29:51 < Steffanx> Diptrace is still a thing?
2022-03-21T22:30:47 < PaulFertser> How about https://pine64.com/product-category/soquartz/ ? It's in stock and they promise availability.
2022-03-21T22:32:48 < josuah> happy are the board makers who just ordered the production of a hole lotta boards a bit before the outage started
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2022-03-21T22:47:12 < fenugrec> what outage
2022-03-21T22:47:58 < kakium69> shortage?
2022-03-21T22:48:03 < fenugrec> outrage ?
2022-03-21T22:50:52 < josuah> kakium69: not outage of everything, sure
2022-03-21T22:51:30 < kakium69> peak everything
2022-03-21T22:53:39 < zyp> tct, hang on, you say that instead of a SoM, you're gonna roll your own SoC with a risc-v soft-core on a machxo3d?
2022-03-21T22:54:54 < zyp> that seems too small a fpga to have a lot of application overlap with a cortex-a SoM to me
2022-03-21T22:55:24 < zyp> and I'm not sure why you'd consider a SoM for anything smaller than cortex-a
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2022-03-21T23:00:39 < tct> zyp, the SoM was indeed supposed to be a Cortex-A. we changed strategies / the overall design of the system in a way that doesn´t currently need that anymore. reasonably small FPGA will suffice.
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2022-03-21T23:05:33 < zyp> also, why machxo3d?
2022-03-21T23:07:22 < tct> because it fits the project requirements.
2022-03-21T23:08:05 < fenugrec> "is it available for order" probably near the top : )
2022-03-21T23:08:16 < zyp> doesn't seem overly available on octopart
2022-03-21T23:08:34 < qyx> I would use esp32-c3
2022-03-21T23:09:01 < qyx> I am going to play with them a bit after I finish this stm32mp1 adventure
2022-03-21T23:09:26 < zyp> I'm fairly partial to ecp5 when it comes to fpgas, not having to deal with vendor toolchain bullshit is great
2022-03-21T23:10:01 < tct> +1
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2022-03-21T23:14:05 < zyp> I think the first nexus parts are also getting decent oss toolchain support
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2022-03-22T01:46:23 < aandrew> machxo3 is a decent little device
2022-03-22T01:46:32 < aandrew> I liked it, ECP5 was also not bad for smaller stuff
2022-03-22T01:56:53 < josuah> aandrew: do you use open source toolchain for these or the one of the provider?
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2022-03-22T02:58:37 < aandrew> josuah: no, I use the vendor tools
2022-03-22T02:59:00 < aandrew> I haven't tried any of the OSS toolchains, but they're all targeting Verilog anyway (I prefer VHDL)
2022-03-22T03:09:15 < zyp> doesn't ghdl plug into yosys for vhdl synth now?
2022-03-22T03:24:09 < aandrew> not sure, but if it means my VHDL is translated to Verilog so yosys can do what it wants, I'm not sure i want to have a design path that goes that way
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2022-03-22T09:50:38 < jpa-> heh, snapeda now has ads that recommend alternate part after download.. it suggest i replace i2c io expander with i2c pressure sensor
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2022-03-22T11:21:15 < mawk> smart jpa- 
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2022-03-22T11:42:31 < karlp> because you're still spending someone else's gold or what?!
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2022-03-22T11:43:45 < karlp> (that was for tct exclusively using eurocircuits)
2022-03-22T11:53:12 < mawk> we use eurocircuits too
2022-03-22T11:53:18 < mawk> when we want a quick run
2022-03-22T11:53:53 < mawk> I'm modifying a ft232r cable to do 1.8V logic, so I'm cutting the trace that goes from the 3V3 to VCCIO, and replacing it with 1.8V supply
2022-03-22T11:54:01 < mawk> but the doc say It should be noted that in this case this supply should originate from the same source as the supply to VCC. This means that in bus powered designs a regulator which is supplied by the +5V on the USB bus should be used.
2022-03-22T11:54:11 < mawk> I don't get how it can know from which supply this is coming
2022-03-22T11:54:19 < mawk> what happens if I use the bench power supply to provide 1.8V there
2022-03-22T11:55:17 < karlp> they probably really mean "don't turn on 1.8 before 5"
2022-03-22T11:55:25 < mawk> I see
2022-03-22T11:55:29 < mawk> thanks
2022-03-22T11:59:06 < mawk> I probably will still use a regulator to make it a self-contained cable, but I want to try first with the bench psu
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2022-03-22T12:30:49 < mawk> my usb-A male reversible cable: https://i.imgur.com/qqw6rsU.jpeg
2022-03-22T12:30:52 < mawk> are you all jealous
2022-03-22T12:31:50 < karlp> does that work by being bendy?
2022-03-22T12:33:11 < mawk> yeah it's bendy
2022-03-22T12:33:36 < mawk> and there are grips on the ground cage to better stay inside the port
2022-03-22T12:33:44 < mawk> a chinese wanted to innovate
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2022-03-22T12:40:54 < karlp> jpa-: le audio now available: https://www.bluetooth.com/bluetooth-resources/le-audio-book/
2022-03-22T12:41:16 < karlp> (well, years ago)
2022-03-22T12:41:25 < karlp> I guess that was afteryou did your own thing?
2022-03-22T12:46:13 < josuah> aandrew: I'll have to give VHDL a try at some point
2022-03-22T12:48:14 < mawk> yes we don't do filthy verilog here
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2022-03-22T13:02:30 < josuah> mawk: :D
2022-03-22T13:03:10 < josuah> is it possible to make verilog interact with VHDL? as there seems to be a lot of verilog around
2022-03-22T13:03:38 < josuah> maybe something like chicken scheme can be done (lisp lang "compiling" to C)
2022-03-22T13:04:42 < josuah> but as aandrew says: "I'm not sure i want to have a design path that goes that way"
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2022-03-22T13:14:50 < srk> josuah: https://clash-lang.org/
2022-03-22T13:26:37 < josuah> ah, someone did it! thanks srk
2022-03-22T13:29:16 < srk> also Migen which is python/oop
2022-03-22T13:30:15 < BrainDamage> vhdl in my experience is a better abstraction over the hw
2022-03-22T13:30:35 < BrainDamage> verilog is more like "we've tried to coherce c syntax in this"
2022-03-22T13:42:01 < josuah> and how do VHDL people get their way around in this much-Verilog world?
2022-03-22T13:42:37 < josuah> there is not that few VHDL though, it might depend on which company it is
2022-03-22T13:43:58 < BrainDamage> once it reaches the rtl level which IP cores are distributed as, it doesn't matter which language you use
2022-03-22T13:44:29 < BrainDamage> altough having readily made bindings makes a difference
2022-03-22T13:45:28 < josuah> good to know!
2022-03-22T13:47:41 < BrainDamage> mind you, the ip cores would be the fpga equivalent of a dll, that's why the language doesn't matter, but I'd not recommend to do it yourself if you can avoid it
2022-03-22T13:48:14 < BrainDamage> because defining an interface, etc is extra work
2022-03-22T13:48:32 < BrainDamage> altough it might pay back if you can come up with a test suite for it
2022-03-22T13:48:47 < josuah> sure, I take note, if I ever provide IP cores, to provide an interface not only for the language it is done with
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2022-03-22T14:08:48 < karlp> well, found a bug in silabs sdk. guess itw as only a matter of time.
2022-03-22T14:08:56 < karlp> now if only it fixed my problem :)
2022-03-22T14:15:16 < karlp> run under debugger: 100 samples at 1kHz takes 100ms.
2022-03-22T14:15:22 < karlp> press reset, it takes 150ms...
2022-03-22T14:16:06 < karlp> actually, it's worse, under debug, it's always 100ms.
2022-03-22T14:16:18 < karlp> after reset it's ~147,148 or 149ms.
2022-03-22T14:16:31 < karlp> I suspect some low power sleep timing is completely fucked here.
2022-03-22T14:36:42 < josuah> for an EFM32? are they nice to play with (besides the SDK bugs, that is)?
2022-03-22T14:42:02 < aandrew> josuah> is it possible to make verilog interact with VHDL? as there seems to be a lot of verilog around
2022-03-22T14:42:05 < aandrew> yes that's not the issue
2022-03-22T14:42:52 < aandrew> the issue is writing VHDL to do X and having a software translator interpret that to Verilog that will in turn be interpreted correctly by the tools to produce the desired logic
2022-03-22T14:43:11 < aandrew> it's difficult enough getting *your* HDL understood as intended without throwing the mess that is Verilog into the mess
2022-03-22T14:43:15 < aandrew> mix*
2022-03-22T14:44:06 < josuah> aandrew: I can imagine that!
2022-03-22T14:44:10 < aandrew> BrainDamage: yes exactly. I like VHDL because it's pedantic as fuck and isn't as "loose" as C
2022-03-22T14:45:10 < josuah> I wish C had -pedantic make conversion between different typedefs issue a warning
2022-03-22T14:46:30 < josuah> then you could typedef second_t, meter_t, pixel_t, and have "uint8_t x = (size_t)y;" yell at you
2022-03-22T14:52:26 < karlp> I suspect there's an rtos impl sleep timer that's not being properly accounted for lost ticks on wakeup or something.
2022-03-22T14:52:52 < karlp> you explicitly told it not to yell at you by explicitly casting...
2022-03-22T14:53:20 < karlp> you want a "tell me when I made a mistake that you don't have any way of knowing about" option.
2022-03-22T14:53:38 < karlp> but do try -Wconversion
2022-03-22T14:54:51 < zyp> < aandrew> not sure, but if it means my VHDL is translated to Verilog so yosys can do what it wants, I'm not sure i want to have a design path that goes that way
2022-03-22T14:55:37 < zyp> I'm not sure if it translates to verilog first or directly to internal structures, but I figure fuck matters as long as the output is the same
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2022-03-22T15:04:51 < josuah> karlp: I do try and I thank you.
2022-03-22T15:06:14 < aandrew> josuah: yes, that would be handy in some cases but it'd be absolute hell for any kind of HAL who typedef int to FancyHALErr_t
2022-03-22T15:07:02 < josuah> aandrew: an open door to misuses and over-engineering as well
2022-03-22T15:07:08 < aandrew> zyp: I thought it did everything to VHDL and passed that to yosys to do the actual synthesis
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2022-03-22T15:18:05 < karlp> ok. joy. if I explicitly block it from entering one of the low power modes, it's timing stays consistent between debug and after reset.
2022-03-22T15:18:24 < karlp> so this almost sounds like borked silabs freertos low power implementation..
2022-03-22T15:18:32 < karlp> and that sounds grossly unfun to diagnose.
2022-03-22T15:20:03 < srk> heh, related.. trying to figure out what happens when negative `int timeout` is used in u-boot/pxe - #define endtick(seconds) (get_ticks() + (uint64_t)(seconds) * get_tbclk())
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2022-03-22T15:21:14 < karlp> I guess my next shot is to try it without fr4eertos, .
2022-03-22T15:21:32 < karlp> or, move this dma irq to be higher prior than freertos and check it's timing then?
2022-03-22T15:21:44 < karlp> fuckle, so not excited about chasing this sort of shit
2022-03-22T15:21:48 < srk> :(
2022-03-22T15:22:43 < srk> aren't you supposed to correct clock on wake-up based on rtc/lp timer?
2022-03-22T15:23:11 < srk> fun to debug I guess
2022-03-22T15:24:49 < karlp> yeah, well silabs provides a _big_ chunk of the freertos low timer stuff,
2022-03-22T15:25:06 < srk> aah, uff
2022-03-22T15:27:18 < zyp> aandrew, looking at https://github.com/ghdl/ghdl-yosys-plugin/blob/master/src/ghdl.cc it looks like it converts the netlist directly from ghdl internal representation to yosys internal representation
2022-03-22T15:27:44 < aandrew> zyp: interesting
2022-03-22T15:28:12 < aandrew> I have to play with ghdl more, I really liked it but it had some glaring omissions that made it impossible to write HDL and test in GHDL then just bring over to the lattice/intel/etc tools
2022-03-22T15:28:23 < aandrew> that reminds me I have to write some HDL 
2022-03-22T15:29:39 < zyp> I prefer higher level stuff like migen or amaranth anyway, and doesn't care too much about how that's turned to rtl
2022-03-22T15:32:23 < aandrew> I haven't tried anything like that, how does it handle careful stuff like clock domain crossing or fancy tweaking to try to close timing?
2022-03-22T15:32:58 < zyp> explicit instancing
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2022-03-22T15:35:26 < zyp> e.g. https://github.com/m-labs/migen/blob/master/migen/build/lattice/common.py defines which primitives to use for careful stuff on lattice parts
2022-03-22T15:36:28 < zyp> and correspondingly for xilinx: https://github.com/m-labs/migen/blob/master/migen/build/xilinx/common.py
2022-03-22T15:38:14 < aandrew> zyp: ok, so that lets you instantiate an output ddr block etc
2022-03-22T15:38:26 < aandrew> how often do you run into things where you need to fiddle-fart around to meet timing?
2022-03-22T15:40:24 < zyp> not sure, I haven't worked enough on designs that are hard to meet timing for
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2022-03-22T15:40:55 < zyp> most of the time if I don't meet timing, it's because I've done something stupid :p
2022-03-22T15:42:37 < aandrew> heh that is most of the time ofr everyone I think
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2022-03-22T15:49:02 < zyp> also, what I've spent most time on is orbtrace, which doesn't really have much hard timing limits
2022-03-22T15:49:52 < zyp> the only clock domain that must be at a given rate is the usb domain that must be at 60MHz for ULPI, and that never had any issue meeting timing
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2022-03-22T17:08:33 < bitmask> hi hi
2022-03-22T17:09:56 < Steffanx> Gooday sir 
2022-03-22T17:15:55 < mawk> I have to desolder a moderately large soc that has a metal shield
2022-03-22T17:16:01 < mawk> how am I supposed to do that
2022-03-22T17:16:10 < mawk> I just have hot air
2022-03-22T17:16:23 < mawk> a liter of flux and then what
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2022-03-22T17:19:21 < bitmask> why is the teensy 3.6 more expensive than the 4.1
2022-03-22T17:19:44 < bitmask> the only thing i see thats better is analog in/out
2022-03-22T17:22:14 < bitmask> oh who cares
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2022-03-22T17:33:55 < karlp> lol, ported to micrium, works, no timing oddities....
2022-03-22T17:34:07 < karlp> except.... it also doesn't seem touse the lower power modes, 
2022-03-22T17:34:20 < karlp> and freertos worked too if I blocked the low power modes.
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2022-03-22T17:49:45 < karlp> and, after we found the right option in micrium, yep, it has glitchy timing too.
2022-03-22T17:49:47 < karlp> wtf.
2022-03-22T17:49:52 < karlp> how has anyone not run into this...
2022-03-22T17:50:10 < karlp> I guess tomorrow's job is just to run it in baremetal and say goodbye tohaving tasks.
2022-03-22T17:50:20 < karlp> fuck trying to dig into this silabs os guts codes.
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2022-03-22T18:32:16 < bitmask> damn, ublock origin is amazing
2022-03-22T18:34:01 < Steffanx> So are you bitmask 
2022-03-22T18:34:20 < bitmask> awww, thanks ;)
2022-03-22T18:34:52 < bitmask> my pc wont even run windows 11 :(
2022-03-22T18:47:28 < kakium69> bitmask: welcome to year 2017
2022-03-22T18:47:53 < kakium69> I think I learned about ublock origin from this channel
2022-03-22T18:48:04 < kakium69> very multi useful channel
2022-03-22T18:48:05 < bitmask> never looked into blockers before
2022-03-22T18:48:17 < bitmask> but one site started pissing me off so i looked and found it
2022-03-22T18:48:32 < kakium69> when I was at works I rocked with Microsoft Edge without extensions
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2022-03-22T18:49:47 < Xogium> that reminds me of a blind friend, the guy was a bit strange in that he actually liked porn. He found out totally by accident that if he uses the routing cursors of his braille display to click on the video icon of such websites, he bypasses the ads
2022-03-22T18:50:03 < Xogium> I was half out of my chair laughing
2022-03-22T18:50:35 < Xogium> if he emulates a mouse click with screen reader he'd still get the ads
2022-03-22T18:50:44 < Steffanx> Why is it strange to like porn Xogium?
2022-03-22T18:50:55 < kakium69> he was blind
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2022-03-22T18:51:00 < Steffanx> Or was it the strange kind of porn
2022-03-22T18:51:04 < Xogium> well… most blind people tend to not like it… Its just boring noises
2022-03-22T18:51:41 < Steffanx> There must be a special genre for blind people
2022-03-22T18:51:53 < kakium69> ASMR of whatever its called
2022-03-22T18:51:55 < Xogium> not that I know
2022-03-22T18:52:23 < Xogium> at least for me it does absolutely nothing :p
2022-03-22T18:52:38 < Xogium> makes me laugh even, at such weird noises people can end up making
2022-03-22T18:53:32 < Steffanx> TIL: Apparently there is a "Described Video" category on pornhub
2022-03-22T18:53:33 < aandrew> mawk> I have to desolder a moderately large soc that has a metal shield
2022-03-22T18:53:49 < aandrew> board heater under, let it come up to temp, then use the hot air to push the solder over its melting point?
2022-03-22T18:53:53 < Steffanx> Haha I can imagine it's weird
2022-03-22T18:54:02 < Xogium> Steffanx: the fu… That is even more weird
2022-03-22T18:56:04 < Xogium> must be one hell of a challenge to keep your cool describing such things, too
2022-03-22T18:57:05 < Steffanx> Mawk: have your employer buy the tools you need
2022-03-22T18:58:25 < mawk> that's too expensive for him Steffanx 
2022-03-22T19:00:55 < Xogium> what the hell do they mean by 'wide BGA balls' anyway ?
2022-03-22T19:01:33 < Xogium> they say the things are wide, to help and provide low cost BGA assembling. But, surely they aren't *that* wide, if there's 302 of them in a 18x18 mm package
2022-03-22T19:03:47 < catphish> kakium69: i finally committed to ordering my batter box! :)
2022-03-22T19:04:03 < kakium69> you have final results to show?
2022-03-22T19:04:24 < catphish> kakium69: it's kind of a "draft" version, very simple, no pre-drilled holes for anything, literally just 5 walls of 1.5mm steel
2022-03-22T19:04:37 < catphish> i will offer things up and see what happens
2022-03-22T19:05:19 < catphish> this is my current best estimate of how i will lay out the inside: https://i.imgur.com/8o5GkyD.png https://i.imgur.com/LqWUSoY.png
2022-03-22T19:05:43 < kakium69> https://www.konkurssihuutokauppa.fi/konkurssipesan-nettihuutokauppa/49394/toroidion-sahkoauton-prototyyppi weird finnish electric car project
2022-03-22T19:05:51 < kakium69> bankrupcy auction
2022-03-22T19:06:08 < kakium69> they claimed they would beat tesla with 48V system
2022-03-22T19:06:17 < catphish> these just arrived in my mailbox :) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403484749005
2022-03-22T19:06:25 < kakium69> burned through investor moneys
2022-03-22T19:07:22 < catphish> that's a nice car!
2022-03-22T19:07:28 < catphish> just upgrade the motor no?
2022-03-22T19:07:35 < kakium69> indeed nice looking thing
2022-03-22T19:07:37 < kakium69> but
2022-03-22T19:08:01 < catphish> wait... hobbyking lipos?!
2022-03-22T19:08:02 < kakium69> the whole concept was super weird obsession about 48V
2022-03-22T19:08:46 < kakium69> hobbyking lipos would work
2022-03-22T19:09:00 < kakium69> it's just pain mechanically to place them and cool them
2022-03-22T19:09:52 < kakium69> catphish: you might want to think about ways to mitigate strain to end terminals
2022-03-22T19:09:54 < catphish> yeah i considered using them, but when it came down to it, gray market bigger batteries were better value
2022-03-22T19:10:21 < kakium69> maybe a U-bend to terminal that flexes
2022-03-22T19:10:36 < kakium69> maybe that 90degree is enough
2022-03-22T19:11:09 < kakium69> it depends how stiff that terminal bar is
2022-03-22T19:11:39 < catphish> actually the side of the box is quit flimsy, it'll flex before anything else does
2022-03-22T19:11:48 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-22T19:11:50 < kakium69> ofc
2022-03-22T19:11:54 < catphish> so should be fine
2022-03-22T19:12:27 < kakium69> I didn't think about that option.. assumed the wall is unmovable object
2022-03-22T19:14:02 < kakium69> cell 2 cell bars could benefit from slight u-bend
2022-03-22T19:14:03 < catphish> i find it so off how much engineering has gone into that car, yet the HV system is so shit
2022-03-22T19:14:25 < kakium69> what HV?
2022-03-22T19:14:28 < kakium69> 48V :D
2022-03-22T19:14:36 < catphish> lol indeed
2022-03-22T19:14:41 < kakium69> it has no HV system
2022-03-22T19:14:43 < catphish> oh the long ones without the fuses, yes, could put a kink in that
2022-03-22T19:15:08 < kakium69> I meant between prismatic cells
2022-03-22T19:15:10 < catphish> i'm running at 300V, it was supposed to be 360, but there was only room for 5 of the 6 batteries i was going to put in series :)
2022-03-22T19:15:20 < kakium69> stuff moves up and down
2022-03-22T19:16:19 < catphish> kakium69: i actually have the OEM bus bars to go between the cells, they're 100% stiff and i intend to use them, this is one reason why the bottom of the box needs to not flex
2022-03-22T19:16:33 < kakium69> okay
2022-03-22T19:16:45 < catphish> i see your point, but i hope to mitigate it
2022-03-22T19:18:01 < kakium69> it is option indeed to stiffen the substructure
2022-03-22T19:18:04 < catphish> you can buy short flexible bus bars made of braided copper strands, which is tempting
2022-03-22T19:18:33 < catphish> the structure supporting the box once installed should be totally rigid
2022-03-22T19:19:18 < catphish> but 12 new flexible bus bars is going to be a pain when i already have perfectly designed rigid ones
2022-03-22T19:22:35 < catphish> annoyingly, i massively under-specified the isolating capacitors on the data lines of my BMS
2022-03-22T19:23:29 < catphish> i used the 1nF that TI recommended, but they intended for cable runs of tens of mm. it doesn't work with a 1m cable :(
2022-03-22T19:23:54 < catphish> short out the isolation caps and rely on the ones in the batteries, and no trouble :)
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2022-03-22T19:59:37 < machinehum> If I want to mount something like this against a piece of metal what is it called https://imgur.com/a/HoL1slq
2022-03-22T20:00:07 < machinehum> For instance I wanted to measure the temp of liquid inside a pot, drill a holl and mount this
2022-03-22T20:00:12 < machinehum> What is the last piece you need
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2022-03-22T20:03:26 < kakium69> what is used in batteries?
2022-03-22T20:03:31 < kakium69> 2.2?
2022-03-22T20:12:22 < jpa-> machinehum: glue?
2022-03-22T20:21:17 < catphish> machinehum: you mean like a gromet?
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2022-03-22T20:22:13 < catphish> or more like a metal condom?
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2022-03-22T20:47:46 < machinehum> mmmm
2022-03-22T20:47:57 -!- Ecco [~user@lfbn-idf1-1-1530-116.w90-90.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-22T20:48:03 < machinehum> https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wallaceandgromit/images/3/38/Gromit-3.png/revision/latest?cb=20191228190308
2022-03-22T20:48:05 < machinehum> ?
2022-03-22T20:48:17 < machinehum> Ahh, gromet
2022-03-22T20:48:24 < machinehum> Well it has to be water tight
2022-03-22T20:48:41 < machinehum> Maybe a shitty little gromet will work
2022-03-22T20:49:27 < machinehum> I think the liquid will seep out of a gromet
2022-03-22T20:49:29 < Ecco> Hi :)
2022-03-22T20:49:44 < Ecco> I would like to find the local static variables in a code base
2022-03-22T20:50:04 < Ecco> greping for "static" yields a lot of incorrect results (static functions, global static variables)
2022-03-22T20:50:29 < jpa-> grep for "static" indented by at least one space
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2022-03-22T20:53:40 < kakium69> metal condom
2022-03-22T20:53:43 < Ecco> what do you mean?
2022-03-22T20:53:47 < Ecco> like "static " ?
2022-03-22T20:54:05 < jpa-> no, like " static"
2022-03-22T20:55:14 < Ecco> hmm
2022-03-22T20:55:23 < Ecco> smart
2022-03-22T20:55:24 < Ecco> lemme see :)
2022-03-22T21:02:32 < machinehum> cscope
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2022-03-22T21:10:51 < Ecco> interesting, thanks
2022-03-22T21:10:57 < Ecco> Didn't know of this
2022-03-22T21:13:29 < benishor> either that or you can use clang ast
2022-03-22T21:13:43 < benishor> if you want to do something programatic
2022-03-22T21:14:25 < benishor> a quick and dirty way to inspect the ast: https://clang.llvm.org/docs/IntroductionToTheClangAST.html
2022-03-22T21:14:35 < benishor> namely `clang -Xclang -ast-dump -fsyntax-only test.cc`
2022-03-22T21:14:55 < benishor> this way you can be sure you don't get fucked by parsing stuff in comments
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2022-03-22T21:41:57 < machinehum> Ecco: cscope works really well
2022-03-22T21:41:59 < machinehum> Also ctags
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2022-03-22T22:59:51 < karlp> what's a global static variable?
2022-03-22T23:02:41 < machinehum> Nothing really
2022-03-22T23:02:59 < machinehum> Oh wait
2022-03-22T23:03:16 < machinehum> Same as a static function, can't be exported outside of page scope
2022-03-22T23:05:28 < machinehum> Wait but then it's not global
2022-03-22T23:05:41 < machinehum> I guess global to the page
2022-03-22T23:29:23 < karlp> I ws more asking ecco, who said that they were getting "incorrect" global static variables in their "results"
2022-03-22T23:29:44 < karlp> I can't imagine a world where loking at clang ast sounds like a solution to any problem I want to look for...
2022-03-22T23:31:09 < qyx> huh GCC accepts #elseif but it doesn't do what #elif do
2022-03-22T23:33:57 < Steffanx> Does it accept or it is your first if condition false?
2022-03-22T23:35:59 < Steffanx> Lol . Writing sentences is hard.
2022-03-22T23:36:32 < qyx> do you even
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2022-03-22T23:36:48 < qyx> I mean, it didn't throw any error
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2022-03-22T23:49:53 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zg5Zm
2022-03-22T23:50:01 < qyx> does it look sane?
2022-03-22T23:50:13 < qyx> I have never manipulated pure registers like that
2022-03-22T23:51:34 < karlp> gross, someone else has also refactored this python wch isp code, and it's more complete, but it's now _super_ gross
2022-03-22T23:51:41 < karlp> it's like auto decompiled
2022-03-22T23:53:03 < qyx> lol fixed, the pin toggles
2022-03-22T23:53:12 < qyx> or rather it toggled a few times
--- Day changed ke maalis 23 2022
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2022-03-23T00:14:24 < karlp> doh, if I turn on wireshark to capture usb from windows in a vm, the usb device disconnects :|
2022-03-23T00:15:50 < LikWidChz> anyone ever play around with RFID tags?
2022-03-23T00:32:06 < aandrew> I have
2022-03-23T00:34:11 < karlp> fucking lol. wch582 SDK: GPIO_Pin_0, 1, 2,3,4,5,6.... classic (1<<n) type defines. no dramas.
2022-03-23T00:34:34 < karlp> I ctrl-space completed.... GPIO_PIN_0 and GPIO_PIN_1
2022-03-23T00:34:37 < karlp> those are.... not that.
2022-03-23T00:34:53 < karlp> those are the port a and port b pin status registers :)
2022-03-23T00:37:29 < LikWidChz> aandrew, how far away do they work? ish
2022-03-23T00:39:16 < qyx> depends on the type
2022-03-23T00:39:43 < LikWidChz> yeah from what I found these UHF tags are too damn much 
2022-03-23T00:39:49 < LikWidChz> insert "TOO DAMN HIGH MEME"
2022-03-23T00:40:05 < karlp> very dependent on station antenna too
2022-03-23T00:40:30 < LikWidChz> I'd like to find a tag that works roughly ~3 feet away or so for car security
2022-03-23T00:41:11 < qyx> NFC ISO 15693
2022-03-23T00:41:43 < LikWidChz> but technically thinking of something else all together esp8266 with a cell phone that sends out beacon frames and marry that with a specific signal strength
2022-03-23T00:41:50 < karlp> 3ft is a long fucking way for most of them
2022-03-23T00:42:42 < LikWidChz> yeah I know, perhaps i am approaching the issue incorrectly, but then didnt realize that UHF based tags are very spendy for arduino based pcbs/amazon/ebay availability
2022-03-23T00:43:02 < qyx> ISO 15693 I say
2022-03-23T00:43:09 < qyx> those are the tags used for ski passes
2022-03-23T00:43:18 < qyx> NFC compatible
2022-03-23T00:43:19 < LikWidChz> ill googlith
2022-03-23T00:43:22 < karlp> is that the 125khz shits?
2022-03-23T00:43:27 < qyx> no 13.56
2022-03-23T00:43:33 < qyx> icode slix for example
2022-03-23T00:45:05 < LikWidChz> here is the general idea to pose for another idea. The car im building has lots of digital electronics and I have the ability to send over CAN messages to a device, so I can have logic programmed that says "If I don't see this specific can message, then dont allow a button to work"
2022-03-23T00:45:47 < LikWidChz> so I can build a module that when powered just sends over constant can messages and until that NFC or RFID or XXXXX is within ~3 feet away, dont send the correct can message
2022-03-23T00:46:19 < BrainDamage> the antenna area will increase the operating distance
2022-03-23T00:46:38 < BrainDamage> if you can make say, a 0.5m diameter coil, then it'll work even 1m away or so
2022-03-23T00:47:01 < LikWidChz> which is almost why Im thinking of my cell phone with the attempt to associate to a specific access point.
2022-03-23T00:47:36 < LikWidChz> good solution BrainDamage , just increase the size of the coil. Never thought of that, I like it.
2022-03-23T00:48:11 < LikWidChz> with those RFID devices, you can poll to re read a card if it is constantly in range correct?
2022-03-23T00:48:33 < LikWidChz> like those induction style tooth brushes
2022-03-23T00:50:17 < BrainDamage> there's one problem fwiw with having long range, is that if you use standard freq/protocols the users will likely have something in their pockets like cc, phones, etc which will also respond, garbling the comm
2022-03-23T00:51:07 < LikWidChz> ooh good point! maybe that isnt the right idea.. like I know cars have RFID in their keys and the range is ~a couple inches
2022-03-23T00:51:34 < LikWidChz> so when you put the key in the ignition it reads the key and starts but if you try and screwdriver start the car it does not function
2022-03-23T00:53:10 < qyx> NFC allows multiple transponders in the range
2022-03-23T00:53:17 < qyx> you can select only one to respond
2022-03-23T00:53:33 < LikWidChz> right NFC is built into most phones now right?
2022-03-23T00:53:59 < LikWidChz> for the hippies that want to pay with the double tap of their phone on the pad thing
2022-03-23T00:54:00 < qyx> eg. decathlon scanning your whole shopping cart at once
2022-03-23T00:54:17 < LikWidChz> oh, maybe im thinking of something else then??
2022-03-23T00:54:43 < LikWidChz> so its able to scan all 50 bags of chips in one go
2022-03-23T00:55:22 < qyx> NFC supports multiple standards, there are 5 or so types
2022-03-23T00:55:32 < LikWidChz> I see and its range is? ish
2022-03-23T00:55:36 < qyx> your NFC phone may or may not support all of them afaik
2022-03-23T00:55:43 < LikWidChz> sure its a newer one
2022-03-23T00:55:54 < qyx> it doesn't matter if new or not
2022-03-23T00:56:11 < qyx> it may or may not support the mentioned iso 15693
2022-03-23T00:56:18 < LikWidChz> oh oh that you mentioned above
2022-03-23T00:56:27 < qyx> ref. https://www.rfidcard.com/nfc-forum-tag-types/
2022-03-23T00:57:38 < qyx> so the range depends on the tag type
2022-03-23T00:57:44 < qyx> among other things
2022-03-23T00:58:00 < qyx> if your phone supports the long range type is another thing
2022-03-23T00:58:33 < qyx> but I would say a common phone is not gonna work with > 10 cm
2022-03-23T00:58:38 < LikWidChz> well I googled some yesterday and UHF readers were not small and are also not cheapy
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2022-03-23T00:58:57 < LikWidChz> right that would prettymuch open up all sorts of security issues
2022-03-23T00:59:16 < LikWidChz> you just payed for someone elses chit 100 feet away, thanks sukkah.
2022-03-23T00:59:49 < LikWidChz> which is why id imagine you have to hold your phone up to the device, and accept the payment on the screen of the phone
2022-03-23T00:59:59 < qyx> so back to u-boot, my stm32mp1 freezes after some milliseconds after the code is run, any ideas?
2022-03-23T01:00:02 < LikWidChz> like apple pay or whatever
2022-03-23T01:00:24 < qyx> I mean it freezes in a while (1ň loop
2022-03-23T01:02:48 < BrainDamage> you could use bt or wifi and ask the user for confirmation
2022-03-23T01:05:05 < LikWidChz> BrainDamage, not a bad idea, but I should have mentioned, that when I build this I don't want people to see me have to do some other thing to make my car work
2022-03-23T01:06:09 < LikWidChz> I think RFID is already out, the ESP8266 solution will work, I have a bag of 9 of them here
2022-03-23T01:06:36 < BrainDamage> add a keypad, then even if they'll see you they won't have the code
2022-03-23T01:06:49 < LikWidChz> too much extra bs
2022-03-23T01:07:11 < qyx> add a secret switch under the seat then
2022-03-23T01:07:13 < LikWidChz> is "secret security" a thing
2022-03-23T01:07:16 < LikWidChz> lol.
2022-03-23T01:07:30 < LikWidChz> No wires there is no interor to the car
2022-03-23T01:07:53 < BrainDamage> I wonder if you could reuse the dashboard buttons as a keypad
2022-03-23T01:08:08 < BrainDamage> flip the lights twice, press emergency triangle once, etc
2022-03-23T01:08:11 < LikWidChz> I have all sorts of room under the dash and so many electronic widgets of shit.
2022-03-23T01:08:24 < LikWidChz> too much work also I got rid of those buttons there are blank plates everywhere
2022-03-23T01:08:54 < LikWidChz> would be funny I could use one of them amazon "order" buttons
2022-03-23T01:09:10 < BrainDamage> those operate acoustically iirc
2022-03-23T01:09:22 < BrainDamage> in principle you could use your phone too
2022-03-23T01:09:24 < LikWidChz> those are wireless if I remember right
2022-03-23T01:09:55 < LikWidChz> right BrainDamage , the phone is a solution, I add an access point to the phone and code the esp8266 to look for that particular beacon frame. its harmless
2022-03-23T01:10:30 < BrainDamage> send a signal at 20kHz and pretty much nobody will hear it
2022-03-23T01:10:33 < BrainDamage> that's obscurity, not security
2022-03-23T01:11:05 < BrainDamage> security is a challenge response system using strong crypto
2022-03-23T01:11:08 < LikWidChz> yeah, still good enough thou
2022-03-23T01:11:42 < LikWidChz> thanks for all the ideas!
2022-03-23T01:15:09 < qyx> I would paint it in rusty colour
2022-03-23T01:15:13 < qyx> nobody will ever touch it
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2022-03-23T01:36:40 < mawk> it would be too easy that specifications of a CRC just said "Use polynomial 0x07, initial value 0xFF, reflect input, reflect output, invert bits in the output"
2022-03-23T01:37:48 < mawk> instead it's The FCS shall be the ones complement of the sum (modulo 2) of: a)	the remainder of x^k (x^7 + x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x^1 + 1) divided (modulo 2) by the generator polynomial x8 + x2 + x + 1, where k is the number of bits in the frame existing between, but not including, the final bit of the opening flag and the first bit of the FCS, excluding start and stop elements (start/stop transmission), and bits (synchronous transmission) 
2022-03-23T01:37:48 < mawk> and octets (start/stop transmission) inserted for transparency, and b)	the remainder of the division (modulo 2) by the generator polynomial x8 + x2 + x + 1 of the product of x8 by the content of the frame existing between, but not including, the final bit of the opening flag and the first bit of the FCS, excluding start and stop elements (start/stop transmission), and bits (synchronous transmission) and octets (start/stop transmission) inserted for 
2022-03-23T01:37:49 < mawk> transparency
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2022-03-23T01:38:21 < mawk> the a) is a very convoluted way of saying "use 0xFF for initial value"
2022-03-23T01:39:55 < mawk> "take the remainder mod 2 by the CRC polynomial of x^k (x^7 + x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x^1 + 1) where k is the number of bits in the data to compute the CRC of" just means feed 0xFF to the CRC algorithm
2022-03-23T01:40:12 < mawk> it's in 3GPP specification of course
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2022-03-23T02:59:30 < aandrew> wtf
2022-03-23T02:59:44 < aandrew> how the fuck did you translate that
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2022-03-23T06:44:13 < emeb_mac> mawk: it seems obfuscated, but it's a mathematically precise way of defining the CRC. The assumption is that the engineer reading the spec will know enough finite field math to translate all that into exactly what you said. OTOH, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a flow diagram in the spec too.
2022-03-23T06:46:29 < emeb_mac> I've been there too - I spent a few weeks with my head buried in ECC stuff and was able to design a Reed-Solomon decoder from scratch, but it was super painful and 10 years later I've forgotten almost all of it. :P
2022-03-23T06:55:43 < aandrew> just seems fucking ridiculous
2022-03-23T06:55:51 < aandrew> intentionally obfuscating
2022-03-23T07:15:40 < emeb_mac> Well, these kind of specs are generally not written by implementation engineers - they're written by roomsfull of PhDs from competing companies who are all trying to outguess each other to get a market advantage. They're not trying to make it easier on the other guy. 
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2022-03-23T10:55:03 < mawk> aandrew: x^k (x^7 + x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x^1 + 1) means 0xFF << (8 * length_of_data); which is the same as giving 0xFF to the CRC algorithm (before you're giving it data of length length_of_data)
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2022-03-23T13:23:53 < karlp> digikey, enabling your innovation: "here, have you thought about dspic?"
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2022-03-23T14:35:58 < Steffanx> So did you give it some thought mr Karlp ?
2022-03-23T14:55:08 < fenugrec> heh, I missed the drama last year about Audacity being bought by a russian company, that tried to add telemetry, phone-home code, etc
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2022-03-23T15:16:17 < aandrew> mawk: ok, I see (x^7...+1) being 0xff if x=2, and I guess k is the number of bits 
2022-03-23T15:16:47 < mawk> x doesn't really have a value
2022-03-23T15:17:04 < mawk> it's usually written X in maths, for indeterminate
2022-03-23T15:17:33 < mawk> but yes if you replace X by 2 you can get from the polynomial representation of a bit-vector to a number representation
2022-03-23T15:19:01 < mawk> we use polynomial representation because it makes it easy to make bitshifts and all that; but we could very well use a vector representation
2022-03-23T15:19:12 < mawk> then X³ + X² + X + 1 would be (1, 1, 1, 1) for instance
2022-03-23T15:19:53 < mawk> it also makes it easy to define a multiplication/division of two bit-vectors, using the language of polynomials
2022-03-23T15:20:18 < aandrew> so x^k is the left shift?
2022-03-23T15:20:31 < mawk> the "product" of two bit-vectors is actually convolution product, if you did some FFT you've heard of it
2022-03-23T15:20:31 < aandrew> it's confusing that x is used for two differnt purposes in the same equation
2022-03-23T15:20:31 < mawk> ye
2022-03-23T15:20:33 < mawk> yes
2022-03-23T15:20:42 < mawk> well it's just used as the indeterminate here
2022-03-23T15:20:59 < aandrew> sure but in the same equation wouldn't it mean the same indeterminate?
2022-03-23T15:21:08 < mawk> yes
2022-03-23T15:21:12 < mawk> it doesn't really have a value
2022-03-23T15:21:19 < mawk> it's like the basis of the vector
2022-03-23T15:21:24 < aandrew> otherwise the x in x^7 and the x in x^6 would also possibly mean two different indeterminates
2022-03-23T15:21:32 < mawk> yeah it's the same one
2022-03-23T15:21:49 < mawk> to write a vector (1, 2) in 2D you could also write it 1×e_x + 2×e_y, where e_x and e_y are the basis vectors
2022-03-23T15:21:56 < aandrew> man this is melting my brain a little
2022-03-23T15:22:00 < mawk> well here 1, X, X², X³, ... are like the basis vectors
2022-03-23T15:25:11 < mawk> aandrew: X is X, an object of its own class, it's not a number
2022-03-23T15:25:51 < aandrew> I understand basic algebra; my confusion is still how they use the same variable for two different numbers in the same equation
2022-03-23T15:26:52 < mawk> what do you mean?
2022-03-23T15:27:13 < mawk> X is still X wherever it's used in the equation
2022-03-23T15:27:36 < mawk> X represent the bit vector (0, 1), X² represents the bit vector (0, 0 1) and so on
2022-03-23T15:27:58 < mawk> and you can add different powers of X together to represent different bit vectors; you can also multiply by powers of X to shift bit vectors
2022-03-23T15:31:17 < mawk> it works not so unlike real polynomials, you have a polynomial f(x) = x²+x+1 for instance; in this case x is not an indeterminate but it is a variable, which is kinda the same idea
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2022-03-23T16:05:21 < karlp> any smart people have any comments on whether this is the correct fix? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/1395/files
2022-03-23T16:07:04 < mawk> I would've used uintptr_t
2022-03-23T16:07:05 < karlp> I mean, it doesn't even sound right, that int is "smaller" on cortex-m than intptr
2022-03-23T16:07:34 < karlp> I agree on uintptr vs intptr, but the whole concept smells a bit weird.
2022-03-23T16:07:47 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-23T16:07:55 < mawk> uint and uintptr_t should be the same size
2022-03-23T16:08:13 < mawk> maybe intptr_t is smaller than uint though, and that's why it gives the message
2022-03-23T16:08:24 < karlp> I can't imagine how that would be though, on cortex-m
2022-03-23T16:08:24 < mawk> but I doubt it
2022-03-23T16:08:32 < karlp> it's not x86_64
2022-03-23T16:09:00 < karlp> I mean, this silabs code is all doing *(volatile uint32*) shit, without uintptr_t in the meantime,
2022-03-23T16:09:10 < karlp> and pretty sure st code too, I just had silabs code open
2022-03-23T16:12:56 < jpa-> seems fine for silencing warnings
2022-03-23T16:13:11 < karlp> why don't I see it in more cod ethen?
2022-03-23T16:13:28 < jpa-> because usually compilers aren't that bitchy
2022-03-23T16:13:43 < jpa-> i wonder what compiler that is
2022-03-23T16:13:53 < karlp> freertos port code doesn't need this, and that shit is everywhere
2022-03-23T16:14:01 < karlp> yeah, I'm asking them what toolchain it is..
2022-03-23T16:15:47 < jpa-> googling suggests that the warning is from clang
2022-03-23T16:19:02 < jpa-> for some reason i cannot get clang to give that warning even on x86_64, where it would actually make some sense
2022-03-23T16:23:14 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/cnhE5TPWb   did get another kind of warning from gcc though
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2022-03-23T16:43:13 < karlp> wow, that looks sucky.
2022-03-23T16:44:31 < jpa-> it's only in trunk, so hopefully it won't go into stable
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2022-03-23T17:08:21 < mawk> uintptr_t is an alias to uint on cortex karlp 
2022-03-23T17:08:27 < mawk> you wouldn't get warnings either with uint
2022-03-23T17:08:32 < mawk> C is too dumb to make the difference between type aliases
2022-03-23T17:09:01 < mawk> the only fundamental integer types are char, signed/unsigned char/short/int/long/long long
2022-03-23T17:09:08 < mawk> also __uint128_t on pc but whatever
2022-03-23T17:09:26 < mawk> all the rest is a #define or a typedef to these
2022-03-23T17:09:44 < mawk> also yeah char is different from both signed char and unsigned char for some reason
2022-03-23T17:11:59 < qyx> the dumbest of all antifeatures of C is imho the lack of enum "namespaces", ie. you are able to assign an enum constant of an incvompatible enum
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2022-03-23T17:16:58 < fenugrec> yea, I wonder why it wasn't addressed in C11
2022-03-23T17:18:08 < fenugrec> like, how much code would be broken if it wasn't allowed
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2022-03-23T17:26:45 < karlp> mawk: which makes that bug report/fix even more crazy then IMO
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2022-03-23T19:21:14 < karlp> feck, found a silabs driver that doens't have extern {} for c++ around the decls
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2022-03-23T19:47:50 < qyx> PaulFertser: any known issues with stlink-dap on stm32mp1?
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2022-03-23T19:58:12 < PaulFertser> qyx: not really, especially if you're running latest firmware.
2022-03-23T19:59:15 < qyx> hm this cubeide programmer recommends me to update my v3 stlink
2022-03-23T19:59:39 < qyx> ok I'll try to update that too
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2022-03-23T20:34:56 < jpa-> qyx: the way C++ does enum type safety, it breaks very common stuff like O_RDONLY | O_CREAT  and all other places where enums are used as bitflags
2022-03-23T20:56:47 < bitmask> why does cutting iron produce sparks? I thought it was from oxidation but others are saying its just friction?
2022-03-23T20:57:56 < bitmask> well thinking about it i guess it needs the friction to heat up enough to oxidize?
2022-03-23T20:57:59 < jpa-> friction heats the metal up and oxidation keeps it hot
2022-03-23T20:58:03 < bitmask> k
2022-03-23T20:58:07 < bitmask> just had to think more :)
2022-03-23T20:58:45 < jpa-> google also says "iron is the only metal where the oxide has a melting point lower than the melting point of the metal"
2022-03-23T21:00:47 < aandrew> woo, got my 915MHz bandpass filters
2022-03-23T21:02:14 < aandrew> grabbed this off amazon: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08VDRN3WS, was going to put the BPF on the input side btu still need to figure out a good diplexer setup 
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2022-03-23T21:53:09 < catphish> morning!
2022-03-23T22:01:54 < karlp> tried to comment on a sigrok bug, bugzilla throwing perl errors
2022-03-23T22:01:56 < karlp> super
2022-03-23T22:14:38 < catphish> today i modified an oil pump to run in reverse :)
2022-03-23T22:18:18 < karlp> bah, LA probes are putting too much load on the lines I guess.
2022-03-23T22:18:41 < karlp> but wchlink binary openocd _decodes_ nicely as swd...
2022-03-23T22:21:38 < ds2> any recommendations for a cheap LED flasher? Something similar in function to the old LM3909.... context is - blinking lights for a kid
2022-03-23T22:21:52 < ds2> tiny STM32 boards? the ATTiny stuff?
2022-03-23T22:22:07 < ds2> oh... we are talking about a 1-3 lEDs nothing fancy
2022-03-23T22:27:15 < qyx> a self-flashing LEDs with internal driver?
2022-03-23T22:27:48 < qyx> you can get even RGB ones with special effects
2022-03-23T22:28:03 < qyx> or a candle flame simulator
2022-03-23T22:28:11 < qyx> (cough)
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2022-03-23T22:41:11 < karlp> zyp: I'm trying to clean up a little, and you gave me this snippet: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/e16NZ
2022-03-23T22:41:19 < karlp> but I can't figure out where it gets called from, or how.
2022-03-23T22:41:26 < zyp> looking
2022-03-23T22:41:31 < zyp> ah
2022-03-23T22:41:41 < zyp> line 7 :)
2022-03-23T22:42:07 < karlp> just "conveniently" landing in the first slot?
2022-03-23T22:43:13 < zyp> the risc-v I've used so far doesn't load a reset vector, it just starts executing from addr 0, which is where the .vectors section is located
2022-03-23T22:43:41 < karlp> because there's also, in the generated default_handlers.cpp: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/oPvRy
2022-03-23T22:44:05 < zyp> even for risc-v?
2022-03-23T22:44:21 < zyp> or is this added for the PFIC or whatever it was called?
2022-03-23T22:44:26 < karlp> ah, I've seen indicatiosn in some of this example code, (yes, that's from my generated code at least, and the enums it links too are 
2022-03-23T22:44:32 < karlp> sorry, got side tracked
2022-03-23T22:44:48 < karlp> I've seen indications in some of this wch code that you can have _either_ code or _addresses_ in the vectors.
2022-03-23T22:44:53 < karlp> not sure how they choose,
2022-03-23T22:45:01 < zyp> if the PFIC loads a reset vector from a table at addr 0, you don't need _reset_handler
2022-03-23T22:45:09 < karlp> but yes, my "default_handlers.cpp" is pfic or whatsit
2022-03-23T22:45:13 < zyp> if the cpu just starts executing at addr 0, you need it
2022-03-23T22:45:20 < karlp> well, if I comment out that little block you gave me, it sure doesn't work :)
2022-03-23T22:45:39 < zyp> one of the two things located at addr 0 is responsible for executing entry()
2022-03-23T22:45:56 < karlp> I think I need to step through some vendor code a little bit
2022-03-23T22:46:08 < karlp> just wondering whwere I should put this, as the note from you is, "this should be in laks"
2022-03-23T22:46:48 < zyp> probably in startup/ but it needs to be conditionally compiled in depending on whether the platform needs it or not
2022-03-23T22:48:03 < karlp> startup has just a bare cpp file right now, so would need scons wrangling...
2022-03-23T22:48:09 < karlp> gonna ignore it for a bit then
2022-03-23T22:48:18 < karlp> wondering what I really need/should do next though.
2022-03-23T22:48:31 < ds2> do they still make self flashing LEDs that one can by as just anLED?
2022-03-23T22:49:08 < qyx> ys
2022-03-23T22:49:34 < qyx> in EU, TME has them for example
2022-03-23T22:49:44 < qyx> but I am sure you will find them on mouser/dk too
2022-03-23T22:50:48 < karlp> zyp: for gpio, it's got one big block with the port a / port b overlapping all the way like so: https://github.com/karlp/laks/blob/ch58x/gpio/ch58x_gpio.h
2022-03-23T22:51:22 < karlp> I've currently just made a single GPIO periph, and done the classic "upper bits" trick to have a gpioA vs B: Pin led = GPIO[(0<<8)|0];  // A0.... we might need some macros to fiddle this...
2022-03-23T22:51:25 < ds2> looks like D/K is fronting NTE for some...thanks.
2022-03-23T22:51:33 < karlp> but not sure what would be nicer,
2022-03-23T22:51:40 < zyp> brb 10min or so
2022-03-23T22:51:54 < karlp> I guess I could use a port A map, a port B map, and a port shared map, and just manually lay them out separately.
2022-03-23T22:52:01 < ds2> yikes...7V?!
2022-03-23T22:52:07 < karlp> no problem, just wanted someone else to look at it.
2022-03-23T22:52:45 < ds2> any other suggestions that would be simplier with a couple AA's? (3-4.5V range)
2022-03-23T22:53:01 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/blob/ch58x/startup/entry.cpp#L37 is going to need work eventually as well, as it does the hard reach into copro registers..
2022-03-23T22:54:19 < zyp> you can let CH58x_GPIO_t take an index in addition to the offset, pass the same base offset into both, and index into the regs
2022-03-23T22:54:52 < zyp> i.e. you'll have GPIOA {0x40001000, 0}; and GPIOB {0x40001000, 1}; or something
2022-03-23T22:55:38 < qyx> ds2: chinacandles are for 2 AAs
2022-03-23T22:55:50 < qyx> so I assume there are also 3V ones
2022-03-23T22:56:25 < ds2> qyx: aren't they limited to flickering? I have gotten them to pull CR2032's out of them
2022-03-23T23:00:44 < qyx> https://software-dl.ti.com/processor-sdk-linux/esd/docs/latest/linux/How_to_Guides/Board_Port/U-Boot.html
2022-03-23T23:00:47 < qyx> cool theme
2022-03-23T23:00:57 < qyx> ds2: idk
2022-03-23T23:05:45 < karlp> ah, I never thought of doing that at the construction time, that's cute.
2022-03-23T23:06:13 < karlp> I kinda just ran through it to get it to blink, and was pretty happy
2022-03-23T23:08:00 < zyp> most peripheral wrappers only contains a single offset, but there's no reason it couldn't contain more info like subindices for semi-common stuff like this
2022-03-23T23:08:27 < zyp> the usb peripheral wrappers typically contains two offsets; one for the registers and one for the buffers
2022-03-23T23:10:36 < zyp> and yeah, the whole HAS_FPU macro should go, and FPU init should hook in in a better manner
2022-03-23T23:11:19 < zyp> might work to just add a fpu init function with a constructor attribute with a high priority so it gets stuffed at the top of the initializer list
2022-03-23T23:12:15 < zyp> same manner as this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/dispatch_clic.cpp?h=dev_v2#n21
2022-03-23T23:13:07 < karlp> looking at mounriverstudio freertos port for ch32v307, and it deviates quite a bit from the upstream version :|
2022-03-23T23:13:20 < karlp> -#define portYIELD() __asm volatile( "ecall" );
2022-03-23T23:13:22 < karlp> +#define portYIELD()   NVIC_SetPendingIRQ(Software_IRQn)
2022-03-23T23:13:24 < karlp> super riscv....
2022-03-23T23:13:41 < zyp> haha
2022-03-23T23:14:44 < karlp> ok, they have "systick" instead of the "mtime" it seems :)
2022-03-23T23:17:20 < zyp> I'm still waiting for usb A-A cable to show up
2022-03-23T23:17:53 < karlp> no, theboard has 3 C connectors on it :)
2022-03-23T23:17:55 < zyp> although there's plenty of stuff to bring up before touching usb
2022-03-23T23:18:01 < zyp> which did you get?
2022-03-23T23:18:13 < karlp> I have the ch32v307, and the ch582m 
2022-03-23T23:18:33 < karlp> I'm massively overworked though, so I would really need holidays to do anything meaningful with them I guess.
2022-03-23T23:18:39 < zyp> ah, right, I got the ch569
2022-03-23T23:18:46 < zyp> and yeah, same
2022-03-23T23:19:26 < karlp> this closed source binary openocd they have provided is functional, but it likes to exit after flashing "to help" and a few other quirks, so it's a bit of a struggle.
2022-03-23T23:20:56 < karlp> jpa-: that uintptr_t vs uint32_t dude earlier was using clang in analysis mode, without setting the target.
2022-03-23T23:21:10 < karlp> when they added "-target arm-none-eabi" the warning goes away
2022-03-23T23:22:07 < emeb> ds2: have you looked at Electronic Goldmine? They've got a bunch of flasher LEDs.
2022-03-23T23:22:11 < zyp> I've been spending some time lately putting together a webstore for orbtrace
2022-03-23T23:22:41 < emeb> ds2: https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G21989
2022-03-23T23:23:25 < emeb> but also other colors and RGB, as well as SMT.
2022-03-23T23:27:19 < zyp> hmm, my secondary monitor just turned off, stayed off for a minute, turned on again, stayed on for a minute and turned off
2022-03-23T23:28:13 < zyp> wonder if it's full of dust, overheating and tripping a protection, or have just reached the end of its life
2022-03-23T23:28:43 < Steffanx> Must be LED backlight with those blinking LEDs
2022-03-23T23:28:49 < emeb> lol
2022-03-23T23:29:30 < zyp> I think it's around 16 years old, surprisingly decent 20" VA panel, works nicely as a vertical monitor
2022-03-23T23:29:44 < emeb> bad electrolytic capacitors - that's the #1 go-to diagnosis for all misbehaving electronics these days.
2022-03-23T23:29:51 < zyp> haha
2022-03-23T23:29:54 < emeb> at least if you watch retro videos
2022-03-23T23:30:17 < zyp> yeah, this is probably a retro monitor by now :p
2022-03-23T23:32:29 < emeb> haha - I typed in my monitor model number and the #1 ebay hit was a repair kit consisting of... electrolytic capacitors.
2022-03-23T23:36:18 < zyp> I'll take it outside tomorrow and blow it free for dust, maybe that's enough
2022-03-23T23:38:04 < zyp> not sure what I'll replace it with if it fails, I'm not sure I want to spend money on a new 20" monitor, but I don't have room for another 27" in landscape without rearranging my desk either
2022-03-23T23:39:20 < emeb> Latest repair  under way around here: Stereo in my Honda Fit was sounding kind of distorted. I loaded a USB flash drive with some sine test tones and played them while using an oscilloscope app on my phone. Verdict: Driver's door speaker is clipping like crazy.
2022-03-23T23:39:36 < zyp> haha
2022-03-23T23:39:41 < emeb> Weird thing: replacement speaker from the mfg is only $15.
2022-03-23T23:40:10 < zyp> okay, that's weird
2022-03-23T23:40:24 < emeb> would have expected it to cost hella more
2022-03-23T23:40:58 < emeb> It'll probably turn out that it's not actually a speaker I ordered - just some bit of mounting hardware or equiv.
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2022-03-23T23:51:10 < mawk> when I set one of my pins to open drain my board draws a thousand times more
2022-03-23T23:51:12 < mawk> stm32l152
2022-03-23T23:51:18 < mawk> from 5μA in stop to 5mA
2022-03-23T23:51:20 < mawk> does this happen to you too
2022-03-23T23:52:39 < zyp> what was it set to before?
2022-03-23T23:53:56 < qyx> I was about to ask you guys if you know any legit stm32 channel
2022-03-23T23:53:58 < zyp> an open drain pin driving against a pullup would obviously draw more power than the same pin not driving
2022-03-23T23:54:51 < qyx> I should go and take some sleep
2022-03-23T23:56:33 < qyx> emeb: I was ordering some super pro Visaton flat-response speakers for studio monitors, they were about 17€, 20 W
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2022-03-23T23:57:19 < qyx> replaced the broken ones in father's old aiwa sound system, they work great
2022-03-23T23:57:24 < emeb> qyx: amaze
2022-03-23T23:57:48 < qyx> I was surprised too
--- Day changed to maalis 24 2022
2022-03-24T00:01:09 < mawk> it's not driving zyp , it's drawing that in floating state
2022-03-24T00:02:09 < mawk> before it was still open drain, but with an open drain driver between the pin and the thing it's driving
2022-03-24T00:02:25 < mawk> and with that drawing only 5μA
2022-03-24T00:03:41 < zyp> is it pulled up, or actually floating and tickling the input buffer?
2022-03-24T00:05:17 < mawk> it's pulled up but not by the mcu
2022-03-24T00:05:34 < mawk> but a pull-up shouldn't matter, it's open drain
2022-03-24T00:05:40 < mawk> it should be floating in the 1 state 
2022-03-24T00:06:17 < mawk> and not drawing obscene amount of current
2022-03-24T00:06:37 < zyp> if it weren't pulled up or driven from any end, it'd be floating, and the input buffer is still active on open drain outputs
2022-03-24T00:07:29 < mawk> hmm
2022-03-24T00:07:51 < mawk> so what's wrong in the setup
2022-03-24T00:09:29 < zyp> idk
2022-03-24T00:09:36 < Steffanx> Your mcu doesn't actually sleep anymore because..
2022-03-24T00:09:41 < zyp> have you tried disconnecting the pin?
2022-03-24T00:09:56 < mawk> what's disconnecting 
2022-03-24T00:10:00 < mawk> there input, output, analog
2022-03-24T00:10:06 < zyp> physically
2022-03-24T00:10:07 < mawk> you mean analog mode?
2022-03-24T00:10:09 < mawk> ah
2022-03-24T00:10:19 < mawk> no
2022-03-24T00:10:27 < mawk> but having no pull-up makes it not draw anymore
2022-03-24T00:10:50 < mawk> the pullup is to 1.8V also, maybe that's important
2022-03-24T00:11:01 < mawk> and it's a kinda wobbly 1.8V
2022-03-24T00:11:04 < zyp> oh
2022-03-24T00:11:15 < zyp> yeah, that'd probably tickle the input buffer
2022-03-24T00:11:31 < mawk> because it wobbles?
2022-03-24T00:11:40 < zyp> but don't you see the same behavior in input mode?
2022-03-24T00:11:48 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T00:11:55 < mawk> both in input or in open drain 1 mode
2022-03-24T00:12:01 < zyp> same behavior?
2022-03-24T00:12:05 < mawk> I forgot to try analog mode
2022-03-24T00:12:06 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T00:12:28 < zyp> analog mode should remove the draw (since it turns off input buffer), assuming my theory is right
2022-03-24T00:12:30 < mawk> maybe analog mode will disconnected this input buffer
2022-03-24T00:12:34 < zyp> it will
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2022-03-24T00:12:44 < zyp> that's what analog mode is
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2022-03-24T00:13:09 < mawk> right
2022-03-24T00:13:14 < mawk> thanks
2022-03-24T00:13:17 < zyp> MCU IO is 3.3V?
2022-03-24T00:13:24 < mawk> I don't know why they haven't tried that previously
2022-03-24T00:13:26 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T00:13:44 < mawk> maybe they tried and it didn't work, because to fix this draw they added a open drain driver on the board
2022-03-24T00:13:47 < zyp> so 1.8V is right in the middle of the undefined IO voltage range
2022-03-24T00:13:49 < mawk> it's an expensive fix
2022-03-24T00:15:11 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-03-24T00:15:17 < zyp> what's an open drain driver? a plain NFET?
2022-03-24T00:17:53 < mawk> no, a buffer with an open-drain output
2022-03-24T00:18:14 < mawk> internally it's probably a nfet
2022-03-24T00:18:34 < Steffanx> Did you read AN4899 mr mawk?
2022-03-24T00:18:43 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2022-03-24T00:18:56 < mawk> nobody reads application notes
2022-03-24T00:18:59 < Steffanx> Ok
2022-03-24T00:19:10 < mawk> hmm hmm
2022-03-24T00:19:14 < mawk> sounds interesting
2022-03-24T00:26:51 < HelloShitty> Hello. Anyone here has any example of configuring and using an ADC peripheral on an stm32l4xx ?
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2022-03-24T00:27:07 < HelloShitty> sometime ago someone here shared one but I lost the github link
2022-03-24T00:30:42 < ds2> emeb: thanks. THat seems to be exactly the part I want.
2022-03-24T00:31:26 < emeb> ds2: cool! Goldmine is a bit hit & miss, but when they have stuff they're reliable.
2022-03-24T00:34:13 < ds2> yes, have spent too much money there before :D
2022-03-24T00:34:27 < ds2> been trying to avoid browsing and getting tempted
2022-03-24T00:35:15 < ds2> I have only been disappointed with them once - they don't allow visitors 
2022-03-24T00:37:02 < Steffanx> Want to use the cube code or what HelloShitty ?
2022-03-24T00:37:39 < Steffanx> If yes, lookup the CubeL4 code on github and it'll have examples for a lot of boards 
2022-03-24T00:49:16 < emeb> ds2: I used to work a few blocks away from them. Asked if I could stop by and browse - DENIED!. :P
2022-03-24T00:49:32 < catphish> so when will we start using STM32's again?
2022-03-24T00:50:02 < emeb> catphish: 2024
2022-03-24T00:50:40 < catphish> *nod*
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2022-03-24T04:36:22 < ColdKeyboard> I'm not saying that linker is wrong. But it's complaining about multiple definitions of HAL functions and searching for the names gives only one definition in .h and other implementation in .c ...
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2022-03-24T10:41:52 < mawk> what's the definition looking like ColdKeyboard ?
2022-03-24T10:42:02 < mawk> are you trying to link a .o multiple times?
2022-03-24T10:42:06 < mawk> what's the ld command looking like
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2022-03-24T12:37:34 < karlp> well, fwiw, using silabs in bare metal gets me consistent timing between debug and after reset.
2022-03-24T12:37:55 < karlp> this must be a bug in their rtos adaptation they provide and I'll have to file a ticket with them for it.
2022-03-24T12:38:07 < karlp> in the mean time, i guess it's back to main loop baremetal shits then
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2022-03-24T13:34:09 < karlp> hrm, measuring the current consumption, I'm suspicious that it's "working" because this board isn't entering low power...
2022-03-24T13:34:21 < karlp> I should get another board to have at home an equivalent setup
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2022-03-24T15:04:26 < fenugrec> Hm. Does anybody have experience interchanging 2mm pitch , 2-row shrouded headers between series ? i.e. hirose DF11,  https://media.digikey.com/photos/Hirose%20Elect%20Photos/DF11-14DP-2DS(52)_tmb.jpg , with JST PHD https://www.jst.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/phd-rend.jpg ?
2022-03-24T15:18:27 < qyx> arm-none-linux-gnueabihf-gdb: error while loading shared libraries: libpython2.7.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2022-03-24T15:18:32 < qyx> are they living in the past?
2022-03-24T15:20:34 < jpa-> yes, all software that you use was made in the past
2022-03-24T15:22:50 < mawk> zyp: I put the pin in analog mode, and it seems to work now
2022-03-24T15:23:04 < mawk> like, the average current consumption is down thousand-fold
2022-03-24T15:23:08 < mawk> but now it's wobbly
2022-03-24T15:23:27 < mawk> https://serveur.io/ksnip_20220324-142317.png
2022-03-24T15:24:46 < mawk> could it be due to a boost converter? it's maybe not due to the analog pin
2022-03-24T15:25:13 < jpa-> boost converter probably goes to PFM or pulse skipping mode with low loads
2022-03-24T15:25:23 < mawk> so that's what I see?
2022-03-24T15:25:30 < mawk> a lot of small pulses
2022-03-24T15:25:38 < mawk> low load indeed, the thing it's powering is off
2022-03-24T15:25:41 < jpa-> you can scope the boost converter separately and see if the frequency matches
2022-03-24T15:25:45 < mawk> ah right
2022-03-24T15:25:49 < mawk> like its coil?
2022-03-24T15:25:57 < jpa-> the switch pin
2022-03-24T15:26:00 < jpa-> SW or similar
2022-03-24T15:27:10 < mawk> there's no switch pin
2022-03-24T15:27:24 < mawk> but I suppose on the coil pins I should be able to see the frequency
2022-03-24T15:27:31 < mawk> it's this: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps63900.pdf
2022-03-24T15:27:32 < mawk> buck-boost
2022-03-24T15:27:33 < jpa-> well yeah, the coil pin in any case
2022-03-24T15:27:52 < jpa-> LX2 then if it is operating in boost mode
2022-03-24T15:28:00 < jpa-> LX1 if it is operating in buck mode
2022-03-24T15:28:16 < mawk> ah
2022-03-24T15:28:18 < mawk> right
2022-03-24T15:28:33 < mawk> thanks
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2022-03-24T15:44:02  * qyx cloning STM openocd
2022-03-24T15:57:44 < mawk> are you stealing code from PaulFertser qyx ??
2022-03-24T15:57:49 < mawk> I made a supercap discharging tool
2022-03-24T15:58:04 < mawk> by attaching metal leads to plastic tweezer that discharge the cap into a power resistor
2022-03-24T15:58:16 < mawk> and a led on top to show if it's still charged
2022-03-24T15:58:21 < mawk> it's beautiful
2022-03-24T15:58:51 < mawk> with 4 diodes so the led still lights up if connected in reverse
2022-03-24T16:02:31 < qyx> no, I just hoped the STM version will be more suited for STM chips
2022-03-24T16:02:51 < mawk> ah
2022-03-24T16:02:55 < PaulFertser> Antonio Borneo from ST contributes a lot to OpenOCD directly.
2022-03-24T16:02:55 < mawk> what's wrong with mainline?
2022-03-24T16:03:01 < mawk> did you use master version?
2022-03-24T16:03:05 < PaulFertser> And is often available on IRC too.
2022-03-24T16:03:13 < mawk> what's his nick?
2022-03-24T16:03:23 < mawk> borneoa_
2022-03-24T16:05:53 < qyx> PaulFertser: I had and have issues with halting the MPU
2022-03-24T16:07:23 < qyx> timeout waiting for DSCR bit change
2022-03-24T16:08:43 < qyx> it makes stepping in gdb unusable
2022-03-24T16:08:56 < qyx> at least I know the thing halts in plat_panic() in TF-A
2022-03-24T16:10:39 < qyx> uh oh switching stlink-dap to JTAG mode and/or using STM openocd boosted my frite speed from 39 KB/s
2022-03-24T16:10:44 < qyx> downloaded 209085 bytes in 0.669138s (305.146 KiB/s)
2022-03-24T16:15:09 < mawk> I suspect nothing is different except the .cfg files qyx 
2022-03-24T16:15:12 < mawk> can you diff them?
2022-03-24T16:36:54 < qyx> now gdb breaks on a deleted breakpoint
2022-03-24T16:37:07 < qyx> argh, start over
2022-03-24T16:39:49 < mawk> I got that sometimes
2022-03-24T16:40:00 < mawk> because it's hardware breakpoint, maybe it's deleted from gcc but it's still in the chip
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2022-03-24T16:44:40 < aandrew> PaulFertser: has openocd been sanctioned yet? seems anything even remotely connected to .ru is being blackballed, no matter how nonsensical it is
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2022-03-24T16:44:56 < qyx> TF-A is full of asm macros
2022-03-24T16:47:04 < PaulFertser> aandrew: openocd isn't anyhow connected to .ru
2022-03-24T16:47:42 < aandrew> I might be terribly mistaken, I thought you were from the area
2022-03-24T16:48:36 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I am, right. But I'm not even an OpenOCD maintainer.
2022-03-24T16:49:25 < aandrew> aha
2022-03-24T16:51:12 < PaulFertser> Also, I'm not aware of any sanctions against any free software projects, no matter where the developers are from.
2022-03-24T16:53:13 < aandrew> there was a ... belarusian? pentester that is being denied payment for a bounty since he's from that area, and there was/is also the stupid npm module that intentionally broke their own shit to protest, thought there were some others too
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2022-03-24T17:26:16 < qyx> finally managed to make my debug session stable
2022-03-24T17:26:37 < kakium69> I changed to visual studio code with WSL remote
2022-03-24T17:26:43 < qyx> find out all the required addresses and offsets bootrom is expecting
2022-03-24T17:26:49 < qyx> and run u-boot SPL
2022-03-24T17:26:52 < qyx> now I am stuck in 
2022-03-24T17:26:57 < qyx> 103             while (!(readl(PWR_CR1) & PWR_CR1_DBP))
2022-03-24T17:27:07 < qyx> I may finally call it a progress
2022-03-24T17:30:09 < kakium69> I'm still confused about atomic blocks in AVR
2022-03-24T17:30:22 < kakium69> do all multicycle instructions require atomic block
2022-03-24T17:30:34 < kakium69> or do some postpone interrupts
2022-03-24T17:31:21 < karlp> qyx: if you just need arm gdb, I just use normal host gdb, it's multiarch properly for arm.
2022-03-24T17:31:27 < karlp> doesn't work on riscv though....
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2022-03-24T17:32:59 < qyx> I downloaded and compiled vendor's openocd
2022-03-24T17:33:10 < qyx> and downloaded ARM's binary toolchains with gdb
2022-03-24T17:33:27 < qyx> works so far
2022-03-24T17:33:50 < qyx> returned to u-boot because I refuse to debug the AT-F assembler macro shit
2022-03-24T17:34:57 < karlp> yeah, I just meant that arm's binary gdb is sitll python 2.7 
2022-03-24T17:35:02 < karlp> and I got sick of that.
2022-03-24T17:35:41 < qyx> true
2022-03-24T17:36:04 < qyx> so, I need to turn off this trustzone shit for greater good
2022-03-24T17:36:06 < qyx> any ideas?
2022-03-24T17:36:29 < qyx> it is basically stuck because TZEN bit is set which forbids me to unlock the backup domain write access
2022-03-24T17:36:35 < karlp> nope sorry
2022-03-24T17:36:38 < qyx> I cannot unset it
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2022-03-24T17:42:03  * qyx youtubing country
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2022-03-24T17:48:03 < PaulFertser> aandrew: yes, the hackerone story.
2022-03-24T17:48:13 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-03-24T17:49:10 < PaulFertser> aandrew: not really related to free software though.
2022-03-24T17:49:51 < bitmask> i gotta work on starting/stopping blips on external perimeters....  this print looks shitty in pictures but not too bad, will be fine once coated in resin
2022-03-24T17:49:52 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/OFgpkMT
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2022-03-24T17:54:25 < Steffanx> Time to get an SLA printer bitmask ?
2022-03-24T17:54:45 < bitmask> would be nice but cant right now
2022-03-24T17:55:09 < Steffanx> Need more trump money.. 
2022-03-24T17:56:02 < bitmask> not about money, its about space and fumes
2022-03-24T17:56:02 < kakium69>  #define ATOMIC_BLOCK(type) for ( type, __ToDo = __iCliRetVal(); __ToDo ; __ToDo = 0 )
2022-03-24T17:56:14 < kakium69> how does that work?
2022-03-24T17:56:18 < bitmask> I guess I could put it in the attic...
2022-03-24T17:56:26 < bitmask> but the temp varies so much up there
2022-03-24T17:56:31 < Steffanx> Yeah that's what stopping me too. The hassle.
2022-03-24T17:56:54 < Steffanx> And not sure I really need one, but that's something else.
2022-03-24T17:57:22 < bitmask> yea, definitely dont need one but once i have the space for it, im gettin one heh
2022-03-24T17:57:44 < bitmask> the prints are too good
2022-03-24T17:58:02 < bitmask> i dont usually print big stuff
2022-03-24T18:08:48 < kakium69> "If an interrupt occurs during execution of a multi-cycle instruction, this instruction is completed before the interrupt is served." So all machine instructions are atomic
2022-03-24T18:17:08 < jadew> that's the same reason why I don't have one
2022-03-24T18:17:27 < jadew> that print doesn't look bad tho
2022-03-24T18:17:33 < jadew> what layer height is that? .1?
2022-03-24T18:17:53 < qyx> STM32 vube programmer cannot set option bytes for STM32MP1
2022-03-24T18:18:01 < qyx> (over uart/dfu)
2022-03-24T18:28:01 < bitmask> jadew 0.12 or 0.14 i forget
2022-03-24T18:28:23 < jadew> I can't even see the support marks
2022-03-24T18:28:28 < jadew> it looks great
2022-03-24T18:28:58 < bitmask> yea this is the best print ive ever done with supports
2022-03-24T18:29:30 < bitmask> they came off so easily
2022-03-24T18:30:32 < jadew> 3d printers are so awesome
2022-03-24T18:30:35 < bitmask> i gotta clean it up a bit more then put a thin coat of resin on it to smooth it out, then coat in paraloid+graphite, then electroplate
2022-03-24T18:30:35 < jadew> straight out of sci-fi
2022-03-24T18:31:04 < jadew> wait, how do you smooth it out?
2022-03-24T18:31:05 < bitmask> ive always wanted to see a clean copper statute of liberty
2022-03-24T18:31:28 < bitmask> well i was gonna buy xtc3d but i figured id try some UV resin that i have on hand first
2022-03-24T18:31:37 < bitmask> just sponge a thin layer on and hopefully it will self level and then i'll cur eit
2022-03-24T18:32:09 < bitmask> if it doesnt work i'll just buy some xtc3d
2022-03-24T18:32:49 < bitmask> its just kinda expensive for some thin self leveling epoxy
2022-03-24T18:32:58 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@dbs24fyyll4t619hkc9my-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-03-24T18:33:03 < bitmask> although that bottle will last a lifetime
2022-03-24T18:33:24 < jadew> how much is it?
2022-03-24T18:33:28 < jadew> any toxicity concerns?
2022-03-24T18:33:30 < bitmask> 30 bucks i think
2022-03-24T18:33:33 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T18:33:37 < jadew> ah, that's not much
2022-03-24T18:33:41 < bitmask> i mean just like any epoxy
2022-03-24T18:34:18 < bitmask> i have a respirator but i doubt i'll wear it
2022-03-24T18:34:40 < bitmask> its a small print
2022-03-24T18:34:46 < jadew> you should do it outside
2022-03-24T18:35:00 < jadew> and yeah, I would wear the respirator
2022-03-24T18:35:21 -!- MangyDog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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2022-03-24T18:35:42 < jadew> because it's a large area you're covering, so it's probably going to outgas quite a bit
2022-03-24T18:36:08 < bitmask> large?
2022-03-24T18:36:14 < kakium69> it's stupid questions time: can I define variables and methods anywhere inside class and things will be visible to all methods?
2022-03-24T18:37:11 < jadew> bitmask, it's not just a small thing you're glueing together where most of the surface is not even exposed to the air
2022-03-24T18:37:19 < jadew> you're going to cover that entire thing
2022-03-24T18:37:37 < jadew> kakium69, yes
2022-03-24T18:38:04 < kakium69> makes sense
2022-03-24T18:38:06 < kakium69> thanks
2022-03-24T18:38:13 < jadew> np
2022-03-24T18:39:42 < kakium69> how would you name an inline method that is to be called from interrupt service routine?
2022-03-24T18:40:14 < jadew> I would name it something that describes what it does
2022-03-24T18:40:22 < kakium69> ?_service_routine
2022-03-24T18:41:04 < kakium69> I just wonder if there is some de facto naming convention for such methods
2022-03-24T18:41:56 < jadew> doesThisThingISR()
2022-03-24T18:43:18 < jadew> (adapted to your naming convention, which seems to be the silly one)
2022-03-24T18:43:55 < kakium69> you would call it ISR?
2022-03-24T18:44:22 < jadew> I would add it at the end maybe, if you felt it was important to indicate that that's the ISR
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2022-03-24T18:59:45 < benishor> I wouldn't add ISR, if it's called *from* the ISR
2022-03-24T19:00:18 < benishor> it's a function which does something, regardless of the calling context
2022-03-24T19:01:09 < benishor> the name should just be explanatory for what it does, not also provide info for when it is called. that is assuming too much already
2022-03-24T19:01:10 < jadew> if it's just a function it's different, but it seems it's THE function
2022-03-24T19:01:13 < jadew> the one handling the interrupt
2022-03-24T19:01:19 < jadew> if that's not the case, than I agree
2022-03-24T19:01:21 < benishor> he said "from interrupt service routine"
2022-03-24T19:01:33 < jadew> yeah, but that could just mean he's forwarding
2022-03-24T19:01:42 < jadew> otherwise why would he think about calling it service_routine?
2022-03-24T19:01:44 < benishor> assumption is the mother...
2022-03-24T19:02:23 < jadew> kakium69, clarify
2022-03-24T19:03:04 < benishor> if it would be THE routine, I would use THE name for it and override the __weak implementation
2022-03-24T19:04:43 < benishor> damn, HF ham bands are full of OTH radars lately
2022-03-24T19:06:29 < karlp> stopped reading at ham ...
2022-03-24T19:06:32 -!- cristian_c [~cristian@user/cristian-c/x-2006880] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-03-24T19:06:43 < benishor> karlp: hungry?
2022-03-24T19:07:21 < kakium69> jadew: I would like to keep the option for the method to be called from ISR
2022-03-24T19:07:30 < kakium69> instead of being ISR itself
2022-03-24T19:08:09 < jadew> IMO, if you're just forwarding, than that is the ISR
2022-03-24T19:09:16 < benishor> it might change the calling context in the future
2022-03-24T19:09:25 < benishor> will you change the name then? that's silly
2022-03-24T19:09:32 < jadew> sure
2022-03-24T19:09:48 < benishor> a function is a chunk of code which does stuff. the name should be relevant for that
2022-03-24T19:09:59 < benishor> and that's about it
2022-03-24T19:10:16 < benishor> kakium69: what framework are you using? and what isr are we talking about?
2022-03-24T19:10:28 < kakium69> framework?
2022-03-24T19:10:30 < bitmask> void doThing() {}
2022-03-24T19:10:43 < benishor> kakium69: or are you not using a framework?
2022-03-24T19:10:44 < jadew> right, but if you want to indicate which one is the ISR for whatever purpose (for example if you're doing something special inside, specifically because of what it is)
2022-03-24T19:11:24 < benishor> kakium69: how does that ISR get called?
2022-03-24T19:11:33 < kakium69> timer capture and timer overflow
2022-03-24T19:11:54 < benishor> HAL? bare metal? something else?
2022-03-24T19:12:05 < benishor> cmsis?
2022-03-24T19:18:08 < kakium69> bare metal
2022-03-24T19:19:01 < benishor> then I suppose you get to name that symbol in the startup
2022-03-24T19:19:18 < benishor> what's it called like now?
2022-03-24T19:21:04 < benishor> two things to consider: 1) will you use that function from somewhere else?
2022-03-24T19:21:24 < benishor> 2) will you call anything else beside it in the service routine?
2022-03-24T19:21:40 < benishor> if the answer is yes to any of those questions, then don't add "ISR" as part of the name
2022-03-24T19:22:33 < benishor> I would add "ISR" as part of the name *only* for the actual handler
2022-03-24T19:22:58 < benishor> execution can be traced from there onwards with the mental context having been established
2022-03-24T19:34:04 < jadew> benishor, you're trying too hard
2022-03-24T19:34:38 < jadew> yes, if it's forwarded, it's not the actual ISR, but it doesn't matter
2022-03-24T19:34:49 < jadew> if it adds clarity to the code and your intentions, everything goes
2022-03-24T19:35:28 < jadew> the point of naming stuff is so the code is easier to digest by humans
2022-03-24T19:36:35 < benishor> trying too hard to?
2022-03-24T19:36:48 < jadew> to figure out the perfect way of naming things
2022-03-24T19:36:54 < jadew> and stick to a principle
2022-03-24T19:36:58 < benishor> well, I've been doing it for 25+ years
2022-03-24T19:37:10 < benishor> and I still think naming is one of the most important things in programming
2022-03-24T19:37:19 < jadew> I know, my point is that you don't always have to do it
2022-03-24T19:37:32 < jadew> if the naming convention gets in the way of explaining stuff to your later self, then break it
2022-03-24T19:37:53 < benishor> sure, but what was the convention here?
2022-03-24T19:38:09 < benishor> an ISR in a name tells me that's the handler
2022-03-24T19:38:16 < benishor> not a *part* of a handler
2022-03-24T19:38:18 < jadew> I assume the the thing that bothered you was that it's not actually an ISR, so it shouldn't be called that
2022-03-24T19:38:34 < benishor> pretty much, yes
2022-03-24T19:39:02 < jadew> but in reality, if it's the thing thing that handles the interrupt, and it makes sense to underline that to yourself, then there's no problem in naming it like that
2022-03-24T19:39:37 < jadew> if you're worried it might create some confusion on top of adding information, you can clear that up with a short comment
2022-03-24T19:39:56 < benishor> we don't know kakium69's context so rather than speculate I chose to relate to his wording
2022-03-24T19:40:01 < benishor> "called from ISR"
2022-03-24T19:40:22 < jadew> yeah, but he also named it service_routine() which implied that that's where things happen
2022-03-24T19:40:43 < benishor> or maybe he's just bad at naming
2022-03-24T19:40:52 < jadew> see - I extracted useful information from that naming
2022-03-24T19:41:06 < benishor> point is there was need for more context
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2022-03-24T19:54:50 < jadew> what DNS server should I use in order to block particular requests?
2022-03-24T19:54:59 < jadew> (I want to implement parental control)
2022-03-24T19:58:36 < benishor> try pi-hole?
2022-03-24T19:59:45 < jadew> yeah, was reading on that just now
2022-03-24T19:59:51 < jadew> I might, cuz I like the web interface
2022-03-24T20:01:15 < Steffanx> Adguard can do it too I recall
2022-03-24T20:02:20 -!- witx [~witx@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
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2022-03-24T20:20:19 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
2022-03-24T20:24:35 -!- tomeaton1716 is now known as tomeaton17
2022-03-24T20:30:31 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2022-03-24T20:37:47 -!- rajkosto [~rajkosto@93-86-99-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:38:12 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:38:49 < jadew> Steffanx, adguard seems to provide DNS as a service
2022-03-24T20:38:53 < jadew> I want something hosted locally
2022-03-24T20:41:13 < Steffanx> Not just that jadew
2022-03-24T20:41:15 < Steffanx> https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdGuardHome
2022-03-24T20:41:22 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:41:43 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:41:52 < Steffanx> But not sure it does parental control stuff
2022-03-24T20:42:28 < Steffanx> Apparently it does
2022-03-24T20:43:20 -!- Xav101 [~Xav101@casewireless05.CWRU.Edu] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:43:51 < jadew> it looks good, you're right
2022-03-24T20:45:32 -!- tomeaton17 [~tomeaton1@2a0c:5bc0:40:2e2f:7959:f588:caa9:a415] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-03-24T20:47:32 < Xav101> I'm trying to get the USB Virtual COM port working for serial communication and I can't get anything to show up on the output of the PC it's connected to and I have no clue why. I've got it set to DEVICE_ONLY and configured as the USB Virtual COM port but CDC_TransmitFS just doesn't seem to send anything cause I'm not seeing anything in the serial terminal. Any ideas?
2022-03-24T20:47:50 < Xav101> It is showing up as a COM port in Windows or a TTY under Linux
2022-03-24T20:48:20 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T20:50:30 < bitmask> little snitch
2022-03-24T20:50:55 < bitmask> oh you mean for specific websites
2022-03-24T20:51:16 < Xav101> Is there any internal stuff I have to change maybe
2022-03-24T20:51:55 < jadew> bitmask, talking to me?
2022-03-24T20:52:07 < bitmask> yea
2022-03-24T20:52:10 < bitmask> thats mac anyway
2022-03-24T20:52:13 < fenugrec> I need to spend "90.82$ more to get freeshipping" on DK. What can I buy when everything cool is out of stock
2022-03-24T20:52:30 < jadew> bitmask, yeah, I want to block porn, gore, etc
2022-03-24T20:52:47 < jadew> sanitize things a little
2022-03-24T20:54:48 < BrainDamage> so you're saying you're socratically teaching your childs to use proxies and vpn
2022-03-24T20:55:25 < jadew> when he's old enough to figure that out, I'll disable the filters
2022-03-24T20:56:34 < BrainDamage> I remember using google translate in high school as a proxy
2022-03-24T20:56:40 < BrainDamage> good luck banning that
2022-03-24T20:56:44 < jadew> hah
2022-03-24T20:58:01 < mawk> or google cache
2022-03-24T20:58:04 < mawk> for the right sites
2022-03-24T20:58:06 < jadew> I'm not trying to be tyrannical, if he'll feel the need to circumvent this, then I've kept it on for too long
2022-03-24T20:59:02 < mawk> why do you want to block porn
2022-03-24T20:59:21 < mawk> how old is he
2022-03-24T20:59:27 < jadew> he's 8
2022-03-24T20:59:37 < jadew> I don't want him to be exposed to that shit by mistake
2022-03-24T20:59:38 < mawk> that's a ripe age for porn
2022-03-24T20:59:45 < mawk> it's around that time I started watching 
2022-03-24T20:59:57 < mawk> and I turned out a perfectly fine and adjusted individual 
2022-03-24T21:00:20 < jadew> weren't you banging some guy's wife with his approval about a year ago?
2022-03-24T21:00:28 < mawk> lol
2022-03-24T21:00:31 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T21:01:15 < jadew> I think I started watching sexy movies at ~12 yo
2022-03-24T21:01:28 < jadew> but what's available now is completely different
2022-03-24T21:01:40 < mawk> block the worst websites and keep the vanilla stuff up
2022-03-24T21:01:53 < mawk> then he will stay on the vanilla websites and not dig further 
2022-03-24T21:01:57 < mawk> super strategy 
2022-03-24T21:02:55 < qyx> like feed him with alcohol to stay with it and not take cocaine?
2022-03-24T21:03:19 < qyx> I like the reasoning
2022-03-24T21:03:51 < bitmask> ive wondered if that methodology actually works
2022-03-24T21:04:04 < mawk> in theory
2022-03-24T21:04:06 < mawk> but alcohol is worse than cocaine 
2022-03-24T21:04:08 < mawk> so I'd rather say smoke weed with him so he doesn't do morphine instead like I started with
2022-03-24T21:04:10 < mawk> the gateway theory is bs
2022-03-24T21:04:12 < mawk> I guess
2022-03-24T21:04:17 < mawk> my mother paid my cigs to keep me from other things
2022-03-24T21:04:21 < mawk> and it was kinda working 
2022-03-24T21:04:28 < mawk> but not successful in the end apparently 
2022-03-24T21:04:42 < mawk> not because she did that, but in spitz
2022-03-24T21:06:10 < qyx> I'll feed you rp4020 to not take my stm32s
2022-03-24T21:06:16 < bitmask> i think most people need some kind of vice. it sucks when the one that works has awful side effects
2022-03-24T21:06:38 < qyx> I don't know guys, I have never taken anything like that because I like myself
2022-03-24T21:06:45 < mawk> I like myself too
2022-03-24T21:06:47 < qyx> not even alcohol
2022-03-24T21:06:49 < mawk> it's not why I take it
2022-03-24T21:06:57 < mawk> I take it because I took it yesterday, and the day before
2022-03-24T21:07:16 < mawk> all the way back to 12 years old kid me who didn't know better and was just curious
2022-03-24T21:07:29 < mawk> at no point I ever had destructive tendencies or depression or dark thoughts
2022-03-24T21:07:46 < mawk> it was always about having fun and curiosity, new experiences, etc 
2022-03-24T21:08:02 < mawk> I don't drink alcohol either it's poison
2022-03-24T21:08:10 < bitmask> alcohol is the worst
2022-03-24T21:08:14 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T21:08:55 < bitmask> i mean i guess people that have max 2 drinks its fine but i dont work that way
2022-03-24T21:09:12 < mawk> the maximum is 0 drinks
2022-03-24T21:09:17 < qyx> I had max 2 drinks
2022-03-24T21:09:20 < qyx> lifelong
2022-03-24T21:09:20 < mawk> it's poison at any dose except trace amounts
2022-03-24T21:09:39 < mawk> like for tiramisu the amaretto it's fine
2022-03-24T21:09:47 < mawk> but anything more is toxic 
2022-03-24T21:10:23 < jadew> it's less toxic than a lot of other stuff, but yeah, I don't drink either
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2022-03-24T21:11:10 < bitmask> id be more concerned over processed food than a few drinks of alcohol but i dont care enough to care :)
2022-03-24T21:11:42 < mawk> like what jadew 
2022-03-24T21:11:50 < mawk> it's one of the most toxic drugs
2022-03-24T21:11:52 < jadew> I did when I was younger tho... made for some interesting and surreal nights
2022-03-24T21:11:52 < mawk> and addictive 
2022-03-24T21:12:05 < mawk> it's toxic for literally every organ it comes in contact with
2022-03-24T21:12:10 < jadew> depends how much you drink, and it's not addictive
2022-03-24T21:12:13 < jadew> not as cocaine for example
2022-03-24T21:12:22 < mawk> alcohol is not addictive?
2022-03-24T21:12:36 < mawk> cocaine has craving, it's vastly different 
2022-03-24T21:12:37 < jadew> I could drink for two months every day and I wouldn't get addicted
2022-03-24T21:12:40 < mawk> alcohol has craving too though 
2022-03-24T21:12:49 < mawk> you start to drink, you have to finish the night
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2022-03-24T21:12:56 < mawk> that's a bold claim
2022-03-24T21:13:00 < mawk> have you tried?
2022-03-24T21:13:02 < jadew> yes
2022-03-24T21:13:08 < mawk> how much did you drink?
2022-03-24T21:13:14 < jadew> I've had periods when I drank a glass or two of wine every night
2022-03-24T21:13:15 < mawk> why did you keep doing it for two months?
2022-03-24T21:13:17 < jadew> others with beer
2022-03-24T21:13:18 < bitmask> i mean if you drink enough you get the DTs or whatever its called
2022-03-24T21:13:26 < jadew> then I just stopped cuz I was getting fat
2022-03-24T21:13:28 < mawk> delirium tremens
2022-03-24T21:13:31 < bitmask> so it is somewhat physically addictive
2022-03-24T21:13:39 < mawk> it's one effect of the physical addiction of alcohol 
2022-03-24T21:13:43 < bitmask> but not the same as other things
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2022-03-24T21:13:50 < mawk> it's not somewhat physically addictive, it's totally physically addictive 
2022-03-24T21:13:57 < mawk> just like benzos or barbiturates
2022-03-24T21:14:10 < mawk> you get severe withdrawal when you quit, just like heroin 
2022-03-24T21:14:12 < jadew> mawk, not in my experience
2022-03-24T21:14:16 < mawk> except alcohol wd can actually kill you
2022-03-24T21:14:24 < bitmask> you need to do it a lot longer than other drugs though
2022-03-24T21:14:27 < jadew> like I told you, I had prolonged periods when I had a drink or two each day
2022-03-24T21:14:32 < jadew> and then I stopped with 0 cravings
2022-03-24T21:14:38 < bitmask> thats why i said somewhat
2022-03-24T21:14:39 < mawk> a drink or two is not enough I guess 
2022-03-24T21:15:10 < mawk> I don't know bitmask, if you drink enough I'm pretty sure it won't get a year before you get insomnia the nights you don't drink
2022-03-24T21:15:15 < jadew> how fast do you get addicted to cocaine?
2022-03-24T21:15:17 < mawk> and that's the mildest symptom
2022-03-24T21:15:20 < jadew> two or 3 uses?
2022-03-24T21:15:26 < mawk> cocaine isn't physically addictive
2022-03-24T21:15:27 < bitmask> a year is a long time
2022-03-24T21:15:38 < cristian_c> mawk: I've tried stvp
2022-03-24T21:15:46 < bitmask> you do heroin a week and your addicted
2022-03-24T21:15:53 < mawk> so you could do it infinitely long and quit without symptoms
2022-03-24T21:16:04 < mawk> maybe a bit longer bitmask 
2022-03-24T21:16:16 < mawk> it took me a solid month or two of opiates before I couldn't stop
2022-03-24T21:16:24 < mawk> but I didn't up the dose in the beginning I guess 
2022-03-24T21:16:39 < bitmask> you would be sick if you stopped after a week of heavy usage
2022-03-24T21:16:53 < bitmask> continuous usage
2022-03-24T21:16:59 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T21:17:05 < mawk> well maybe with alcohol too
2022-03-24T21:17:17 < mawk> if we talk the same kind of serious usage
2022-03-24T21:17:47 < bitmask> im pretty sure its not the same but whatever, dont need to prove it
2022-03-24T21:18:12 < mawk> and addiction is the least of worries with alcohol 
2022-03-24T21:18:18 < mawk> toxicity is the biggest issue
2022-03-24T21:18:25 < mawk> heroin is innocuous by comparison
2022-03-24T21:19:16 -!- Xav101 [~Xav101@casewireless05.CWRU.Edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2022-03-24T21:19:51 < mawk> it's gastrotoxic, hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic, cardiotoxic, neurotoxic; any organ it enters is affected 
2022-03-24T21:20:12 < mawk> it's a simple molecule that activates every receptor and ionic channel it comes in contact with indiscriminately 
2022-03-24T21:20:20 < mawk> the fact it feels good is a happy accident
2022-03-24T21:20:56 < mawk> it's an industrial cleaning product, not a drink
2022-03-24T21:22:51 < bitmask> so is hydrochloric acid yet your body needs that
2022-03-24T21:23:01 < mawk> lol
2022-03-24T21:23:04 < mawk> in the right place, yes 
2022-03-24T21:23:12 < mawk> and we evolved a lot of protection mechanism against it
2022-03-24T21:23:28 < mawk> the lining of our stomach is constantly coated in mucus to protect us against HCl
2022-03-24T21:23:40 < mawk> and there are retroaction loops to prevent making too much of it
2022-03-24T21:23:47 < mawk> and when that dysfunctions you get ulcers
2022-03-24T21:25:03 < bitmask> i just dont like when people say something is bad because its in poison X. like vaping will kill you because propylene glycol is in antifreeze
2022-03-24T21:25:18 < fenugrec> water is an industrial solvent
2022-03-24T21:25:23 < mawk> that's not what I saud
2022-03-24T21:25:26 < fenugrec> and you can also drown in it. ergo deadly
2022-03-24T21:25:28 < mawk> I said it's itself a poison
2022-03-24T21:25:37 < mawk> not a constituent of a poison
2022-03-24T21:25:43 < bitmask> you said it was an industrial cleaning product
2022-03-24T21:25:48 < mawk> and it's actually toxic to organs, it's not theoretical
2022-03-24T21:25:49 < bitmask> close enough
2022-03-24T21:25:50 < mawk> yeah
2022-03-24T21:26:02 < mawk> as in, it should stay an industrial cleaning product, and not a drink 
2022-03-24T21:26:49 < BrainDamage> fructose metabolic pathway is nearly identical to ethanol, you better start cutting off sugar too
2022-03-24T21:26:53 < mawk> it's actually toxic to humans, it's not a play on words
2022-03-24T21:27:08 < mawk> does sugar metabolize to ethanal?
2022-03-24T21:27:25 < mawk> the pathway isn't the problem, the molecule and its metabolites are
2022-03-24T21:27:35 < BrainDamage> the metabolites are the same
2022-03-24T21:27:41 < BrainDamage> JNK-1 & co
2022-03-24T21:28:01 < BrainDamage> so yep, fructose's toxic, and can't be used by the body directly
2022-03-24T21:28:10 < mawk> I'm talking about ethanal
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2022-03-24T21:29:15 < mawk> fructose isn't nearly as toxic as ethanol
2022-03-24T21:29:21 < mawk> are you debating the toxicity of ethanol?
2022-03-24T21:29:23 < mawk> to be clear
2022-03-24T21:29:44 < BrainDamage> oh, no, I know ethanol's toxic, but so are many other things
2022-03-24T21:29:51 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-03-24T21:30:01 < BrainDamage> I'm just saying that something being toxic does not deter people from eating it
2022-03-24T21:30:23 < qyx> green tomatoes in a jar
2022-03-24T21:31:42 < mawk> better do green potatoes
2022-03-24T21:31:55 < mawk> it has nicotine you can save some ciggies
2022-03-24T21:33:56 < mawk> I'd rather be far from sugar than being a retard with korsakoff encephalopathy from alcohol
2022-03-24T21:34:18 < mawk> but really I like being a fine slim young man on opiates, it's perfect like this
2022-03-24T21:34:24 < bitmask> yup those are the only two options :P
2022-03-24T21:34:25 < mawk> fat from sugar*
2022-03-24T21:34:39 < mawk> it's not a dichotomy bitmask 
2022-03-24T21:34:53 < mawk> it's comparing fructose to alcohol, the two things previously discussed 
2022-03-24T21:34:58 < mawk> there are other options yes
2022-03-24T21:35:49 < Steffann> You know whats most toxic of all? Just being in ##stm32 and reading all the shit :P
2022-03-24T21:36:15 < bitmask> im saying there are other outcomes besides those two in relation to alcohol and fructose
2022-03-24T21:36:45 < bitmask> Steffann agreed
2022-03-24T21:37:10 < mawk> it's a discussion on the toxicity, bitmask 
2022-03-24T21:37:15 < mawk> what are the other toxic outcomes?
2022-03-24T21:37:35 < BrainDamage> of fructose? the whole metabolic syndrome
2022-03-24T21:37:35 < mawk> there's fatty liver diseas, for sugar, yes
2022-03-24T21:37:45 < mawk> and a bunch of other things 
2022-03-24T21:37:48 < mawk> like that yes
2022-03-24T21:37:56 < mawk> but that's not what bitmask wanted to say
2022-03-24T21:38:06 < BrainDamage> in fact frucose kills more people than alcohol per year
2022-03-24T21:38:09 < BrainDamage> way way more
2022-03-24T21:38:10 < bitmask> and fat isnt a result of toxicity anyway
2022-03-24T21:38:33 < mawk> it's an adverse health effect due to sugar 
2022-03-24T21:38:40 < bitmask> mawk says who?
2022-03-24T21:38:49 < bitmask> what BrainDamage said was exactly a point i was making
2022-03-24T21:39:20 < mawk> sugar makes you slim, then? or maintain your weight?
2022-03-24T21:39:31 < bitmask> wtf?
2022-03-24T21:40:03 < mawk> what's unclear?
2022-03-24T21:40:12 < mawk> which of the three options are you arguing?
2022-03-24T21:40:20 < Steffann> The sky was unclear today.
2022-03-24T21:40:41 < Steffann> a little hazy.
2022-03-24T21:40:59 < mawk> which point that you are making bitmask ? express yourself
2022-03-24T21:41:13 < mawk> what's the ultimate point, that alcohol is fine?
2022-03-24T21:41:41 < fenugrec> Steffann, does it look like summer yet in .nl
2022-03-24T21:41:57 < bitmask> im not arguing an ultimate point, i was just pointing out what you said didnt make sense, look man im done, you dont understand the points people are making, you are just fighting them to argue
2022-03-24T21:42:09 < Steffann> More like proper spring fenugrec. Sunny, not too warm, not too cold. and its getting colourful again
2022-03-24T21:42:15 < mawk> what didn't make sense bitmask ?
2022-03-24T21:42:21 < Steffann> fenugrec: but apparently next week its going to be cold again
2022-03-24T21:42:24 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2022-03-24T21:42:37 < mawk> I don't understand the point that you're not saying, yes
2022-03-24T21:42:44 < mawk> that's related to you not saying it
2022-03-24T21:42:50 < bitmask> when i sarcastically said those were the only two options in response to you, nothing you responded with made sense or was relevant to the point i was making
2022-03-24T21:43:03 < bitmask> and i just dont really care enough now to continue so im done :)
2022-03-24T21:43:23 < mawk> then I responded that I didn't claim to make a dichotomy 
2022-03-24T21:43:30 < mawk> maybe you're the one that didn't understand my point
2022-03-24T21:43:46 < Steffanx> maybe.
2022-03-24T21:43:51 < mawk> in the future don't make any comment if you don't care enough to back it up
2022-03-24T21:43:52 < mawk> thanks
2022-03-24T21:44:02 < Steffanx> Youre shit mawk.
2022-03-24T21:44:04 < mawk> pour yourself a nice drink now
2022-03-24T21:44:04 < bitmask> HAHAHA welcome to irc
2022-03-24T21:44:09 < fenugrec> Steffanx, nice. snowing here today... nearly the last of the year
2022-03-24T21:44:18 < fenugrec> hopefully
2022-03-24T21:44:20 < mawk> one in which you hold actions, of course
2022-03-24T21:44:21 < qyx> snowing,
2022-03-24T21:44:28 < Steffanx> fenugrec: snow is nice, i want more snow.
2022-03-24T21:44:39 < Steffanx> we didnt really have any this year
2022-03-24T21:44:52 < Steffanx> i blame it one mawk. Mawk moves to dutchland and suddenly we have no snow
2022-03-24T21:44:55 < fenugrec> almost not enough snow  anymore to go kite-skiing P )
2022-03-24T21:44:59 < fenugrec> a yes
2022-03-24T21:45:39 < mawk> now I will cook some fugu for dinner
2022-03-24T21:45:49 < mawk> it's very safe, it doesn't kill many people per year
2022-03-24T21:46:06 < BrainDamage> compared to how many that eat it?
2022-03-24T21:47:02 < mawk> why?
2022-03-24T21:47:05 < Steffanx> You might die from some bowel perforation fish bones, mawk
2022-03-24T21:47:11 < Steffanx> due to*
2022-03-24T21:47:24 < bitmask> you make some ridiculous statements mawk
2022-03-24T21:47:28 < mawk> I don't chew a 'ot
2022-03-24T21:47:37 < mawk> why bitmask ?
2022-03-24T21:47:43 < mawk> what did I say now
2022-03-24T21:48:06 < mawk> do you think I believe in what I just said?
2022-03-24T21:48:20 < mawk> knowing my interest in mathematics, and some extent statistics?
2022-03-24T21:48:31 < mawk> couldn't you infer it was a joke rather than a ridiculous statement?
2022-03-24T21:49:39 < mawk> apparently not, anyway 
2022-03-24T21:50:19 < Steffanx> Come on give each other a hug a kiss and its all good again
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2022-03-24T21:51:08 < bitmask> what? It was obviously a joke, you said it was safe then said it kills people. what else could it have been? I just dont know why you said it
2022-03-24T21:51:44 < bitmask> but yes, im just being an ass to be an ass, im done
2022-03-24T21:52:11 < mawk> so it's not a statement, it's a joke
2022-03-24T21:52:29 < mawk> why do you say it's a ridiculous statement 
2022-03-24T21:53:13 < Steffanx> You know you have good discussion when its a discussion about a discussion
2022-03-24T21:53:27 < bitmask> haha
2022-03-24T21:53:28 < Steffanx> when will you move to the next level?
2022-03-24T21:53:31 < mawk> and why do you keep cycling between "I'm done I don't care" and speaking bad to me
2022-03-24T21:53:59 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-03-24T21:54:11 < mawk> I saw the case of a guy with a fishbone in his liver Steffanx 
2022-03-24T21:54:14 < mawk> because he didn't chew
2022-03-24T21:54:40 < mawk> it perforated the bowel and eroded the wall of various organs until getting in the liver 
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2022-03-24T21:55:43 < mawk> what did I do to you bitmask ? did I say something that personally offended? is about insisting that alcohol is not that bad?
2022-03-24T21:55:45 < mawk> what is it
2022-03-24T21:58:26 < cristian_c> mawk: as I said, I tested stvp but I got bad results
2022-03-24T21:58:35 < cristian_c> bothh write and read
2022-03-24T21:58:40 < cristian_c> *both
2022-03-24T21:58:59 < cristian_c> mawk: I'vw made some screenshhots and got some log lines
2022-03-24T22:02:09 < bitmask> what? I agreed with you that alcohol was bad. you were just annoying me with countering points with things that weren't related like you were just trying to argue and you argue like a person that has to be right . it bothers me when people do that. maybe it was a misunderstanding 
2022-03-24T22:16:28 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2022-03-24T22:23:04 < jadew> adguard appears to work
2022-03-24T22:23:14 < jadew> easy setup too
2022-03-24T22:31:54 < jadew> ok, adguard works fine and it can be configured per client
2022-03-24T22:32:27 < jadew> but it still doesn't seem configurable enough
2022-03-24T22:33:30 < jadew> you can either choose to block everything or block nothing for a particular client
2022-03-24T22:33:57 < jadew> so you can't block ads, but not porn for a particular client
2022-03-24T22:34:04 < jadew> not saying for who
2022-03-24T22:36:57 < Steffanx> "AdGuard Home allows you to configure different rules and apply different settings for different devices in your network (clients). "
2022-03-24T22:37:02 < Steffanx> sounds like it can, but .. not sure
2022-03-24T22:37:25 < jadew> I was able to add an exception, but it does that by creating a custom rule
2022-03-24T22:37:41 < jadew> what I want it to do is to use different lists for different client types
2022-03-24T22:37:57 < jadew> I guess I'll live without it
2022-03-24T22:39:23 < BrainDamage> so you can responsibly enjoy the porn your kids can't see
2022-03-24T22:39:46 < jadew> that's the idea, yeah :)
2022-03-24T22:39:58 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-72-120-245.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
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2022-03-24T22:50:02 < jadew> this is the first time I'm using docker, I can see how it's nice
2022-03-24T22:53:01 < HelloShitty> Hi. Who shared with me a few days ago, an example of ADC reading in an stm32l4 or similar?
2022-03-24T22:57:46 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-24T22:59:23 < Steffanx> You didnt even answer my question mr HelloShitty 
2022-03-24T23:01:06 < HelloShitty> Which question Steffanx , sorry I must have missed it
2022-03-24T23:09:52 < Steffanx> if you want to use the cube or not. if yes the examples are in the CubeL4 
2022-03-24T23:10:18 < HelloShitty> oh, no. I'm using ony openocd and gdb
2022-03-24T23:10:30 < Steffanx> No libraries?
2022-03-24T23:10:37 < Steffanx> HAL/LL whatever
2022-03-24T23:10:52 < HelloShitty> libopencm3
2022-03-24T23:10:55 < Steffanx> oh
2022-03-24T23:11:25 < HelloShitty> Soneone shared with me an example he made for himself but I can't find the link now
2022-03-24T23:12:15 < Steffanx> someone shared this with you: https://github.com/farrellf/Balancing_Robot_Firmware/blob/master/f0lib/f0lib_adc.c?ts=4#L19
2022-03-24T23:12:32 < Steffanx> 2022-03-04T00:37:08 < upgrdman> HelloShitty, here's my old f0 code: https://github.com/farrellf/Balancing_Robot_Firmware/blob/master/f0lib/f0lib_adc.c?ts=4#L19
2022-03-24T23:12:33 < Steffanx> from http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/2022-03.log
2022-03-24T23:15:18 < HelloShitty> ohh, big thanks
2022-03-24T23:15:22 < HelloShitty> that's it
2022-03-24T23:15:37 < Steffanx> its for f0 though, not l4
2022-03-24T23:15:56 < HelloShitty> yeah, indeed. I didn't remember
2022-03-24T23:16:14 < HelloShitty> as I was attempting it with an l4, I thought his example was also for l4
2022-03-24T23:16:14 < jadew> ok, pihole is better
2022-03-24T23:16:22 < jadew> it does what I want
2022-03-24T23:16:53 < Steffanx> That doesnt make it better, its more suited to your needs
2022-03-24T23:17:06 < jadew> which makes it better :P
2022-03-24T23:25:48 < Steffanx> No
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2022-03-24T23:59:20 < mawk> jadew: something I tried myself is privoxy
2022-03-24T23:59:24 < mawk> it's very configurable
--- Day changed pe maalis 25 2022
2022-03-25T00:03:48 < cristian_c> mawk: any ideas aboutthe issue?
2022-03-25T00:27:27 < mawk> can you repeat it cristian_c ? I missed it
2022-03-25T00:27:31 < mawk> I lost muh logs
2022-03-25T00:30:07 < cristian_c> mawk: I've tested stmvp as you suggested
2022-03-25T00:30:15 < cristian_c> but I've got bad results
2022-03-25T00:30:46 < cristian_c> both write and read mode
2022-03-25T00:31:30 < cristian_c> I always get the same error ,essage
2022-03-25T00:31:36 < cristian_c> *message
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2022-03-25T00:42:55 < jadew> mawk, pihole seems to work fine
2022-03-25T00:47:00 < mawk> what message cristian_c ?
2022-03-25T00:47:06 < mawk> ah good ado 
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2022-03-25T00:57:48 < cristian_c> mawk: Error: cannot communicate with the device ! Check the SWIM cable connection and check all the needed pin connections on the SWIM connector.
2022-03-25T00:58:58 < cristian_c> mawk: If the application code uses Swim Disable and Reset pin as Output or has disabled SWIM Clock Divider.
2022-03-25T00:59:04 < cristian_c> :
2022-03-25T01:00:00 < cristian_c> Try Now to SWITCH OFF and ON the application Power Supply while NRST Reset pin is forced low.
2022-03-25T01:00:32 < cristian_c> Error : PROGRAM MEMORY programming failed.
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2022-03-25T01:01:47 < cristian_c> mawk: same for the reading, just it changes to Error: < PROGRAM MEMORY reading failed.
2022-03-25T01:02:37 < catphish> my engineering friend changed the gearing in his EV Fiat 126 today to get more acceleration, he put his foot down to pull away from the workshop this evening, and snapped the drive axles :'(
2022-03-25T01:03:22 < BrainDamage> too much torque?
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2022-03-25T01:24:39 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiXCM6J7tbY remember this brittish puppet show from 80s?
2022-03-25T01:30:13 -!- jadew [~rcc@user/rcc] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8]
2022-03-25T01:30:21 < catphish> BrainDamage: yep
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2022-03-25T03:24:50 < ColdKeyboard> So if I want to make my code more portable/platform-agnostic, would making "pointer functions" then in main initializing the instance of the module; would that cause too much overhead in terms of code size?
2022-03-25T03:32:52 < aandrew> one word for ya: benchmark
2022-03-25T03:38:03 < ColdKeyboard> What do you use to benchmark on an stm micro?
2022-03-25T03:38:58 < ColdKeyboard> I'm also looking for a recomendation since I've done it before on micros with ton of flash and you don't worry about running out of flash... The one I have is 32K so it's still plenty but I'm already at 29K :)
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2022-03-25T04:08:57 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: cpu cycle counter and a loop
2022-03-25T04:09:15 < aandrew> is this something that's even going to be noticed if it's marginally slower?
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2022-03-25T05:20:42 < ColdKeyboard> Nope, slower don't really care too much since everything is "polling", so speed is not that important
2022-03-25T05:31:10 < Xav101> I'm trying to figure out how some timer stuff works. I've got the APB1 timer clockspeed at 32MHz, and I've got the prescaler at 7999, and I've got the counter period at 200. Shouldn't this produce a pulse of about 10Hz?
2022-03-25T05:31:26 < Xav101> Because the output I'm seeing on the debug LED is nowhere near that. It's many seconds.
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2022-03-25T07:54:40 < benishor> good morning people of earth
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2022-03-25T11:50:28 < karlp> catphish: that sort of thing (broken axels) is a general problem with rebuilding cars, where the weakest link keeps moving around.
2022-03-25T11:51:06 < karlp> lots of broken dreams when they "strengthened" things and then foudn that the new weakest link was something hard and expensive to replace, when they should have just let things be...
2022-03-25T11:53:22 < catphish> that does sound unpleasant
2022-03-25T11:53:35 < catphish> i really hope my car can take what i'm doing to it
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2022-03-25T12:30:27 < catphish> i have a rotary oil pump - looks like this https://i.imgur.com/QgRhRba.jpg - and i need to test it. can i pump something less messy that oil through this thing without damaging it?
2022-03-25T12:30:38 < catphish> *than
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2022-03-25T13:02:22 < Laurenceb> sup
2022-03-25T13:02:34 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used simulink to program micros?
2022-03-25T13:02:51 < Laurenceb> I've got an issue where it doesnt know what "interrupt" means in embedded c code
2022-03-25T13:03:07 < Laurenceb> not sure where to look for its definition...
2022-03-25T13:04:02 < zyp> fuck simulink
2022-03-25T13:04:30 < Laurenceb> lol yeah
2022-03-25T13:04:32 < Laurenceb> wurk stuff
2022-03-25T13:04:41 < Laurenceb> its for tms320
2022-03-25T13:04:57 < Laurenceb> CCS should recognise the keyword "interrupt" right?
2022-03-25T13:05:18 < zyp> is this GRT or ERT or some shit?
2022-03-25T13:05:24 < Laurenceb> the error is from the simulink c code block validator, which runs prior to the CCS compiler
2022-03-25T13:06:22 < Laurenceb> ERT
2022-03-25T13:07:40 < Laurenceb> I need to fix the broken simulink drivers for TMS320 peripherals, it works with a shell script to patch the c files midway through compilation, but I'm trying to copy and paste the c code into c code blocks within simulink, so its less goofy
2022-03-25T13:08:14 < Laurenceb> included all the needed header files, but simulink doesnt like the interrupt keyword I think
2022-03-25T13:08:54 < zyp> okay, I have no idea how that's supposed to work, I didn't let simulink touch any drivers or compiler toolchain
2022-03-25T13:09:32 < zyp> I just had simulink generate a blob that I needed to feed data to/from and call periodically
2022-03-25T13:09:43 < zyp> and built the infrastructure around it myself
2022-03-25T13:10:28 < Laurenceb> hmm according to forums this might be better done with "s-functions", but they will need "tlc" files to define the cpu registers
2022-03-25T13:15:54 < jpa-> i've never even heard about a keyword "interrupt" in c code
2022-03-25T13:16:22 < jpa-> looks to be some special TI thing
2022-03-25T13:16:28 < Laurenceb> I think there is an interrupt keywork in avr-gcc
2022-03-25T13:16:52 < Laurenceb> arggg tlc files look like undocumented insanity
2022-03-25T13:16:58 < jpa-> IIRC in avr-gcc it is just a macro for __attribute__((interrupt)) or similar
2022-03-25T13:18:42 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah maybe I need to search again for its definition
2022-03-25T13:19:03 < Laurenceb> couldnt find anywhere where it was defined, and its highlighted by default in CCS gui
2022-03-25T13:19:22 < jpa-> yes, by googling it appears to be CCS special keyword
2022-03-25T13:19:28 < jpa-> no wonder that nothing else understands it
2022-03-25T13:19:49 < jpa-> just put some   #ifndef THIS_IS_CCS_COMPILER #define interrupt #endif   somewhere
2022-03-25T13:20:07 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
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2022-03-25T13:21:34 < Laurenceb> wait wtf it compiled
2022-03-25T13:22:08 < Laurenceb> manually put extern <foo>  for all the TMS320 registers I was using at the top of the c code block
2022-03-25T13:22:41 < Laurenceb> still don't know why simulink was erroring from the included headers previously...
2022-03-25T13:23:01 < Laurenceb> oh shit no it optimised out the code now
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2022-03-25T13:33:33 < Laurenceb> yeah that doesnt help
2022-03-25T13:33:42 < Laurenceb> need a way to detect CCS
2022-03-25T13:46:38 < mawk> you're doing bad code if it gets optimized out
2022-03-25T13:46:50 < mawk> you usually use volatile for registers Laurenceb 
2022-03-25T13:46:52 < mawk> why extern?
2022-03-25T13:53:03 < Laurenceb> because its defined elsewhere maybe..
2022-03-25T13:53:42 < mawk> what do you mean
2022-03-25T13:53:49 < mawk> you don't use a #define for the registers?
2022-03-25T13:55:29 < jpa-> some platforms use #define reg (*(volatile uint32_t*)0x1234) for registers, others use  extern volatile uint32_t reg;
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2022-03-25T14:00:01 < Laurenceb> woah it compiled
2022-03-25T14:00:15 < Laurenceb> thanks for the help
2022-03-25T14:00:54 < Laurenceb>  #ifdef __TMS320F28XX__ guards around the problem areas did it
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2022-03-25T15:20:33 < karlp> (and those platforms then produce warnings when clang looks at them in 64bit mode, duh)
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2022-03-25T15:38:08 < karlp> doh, part that I'd been following was going to be avialable in may, ok, no big deal
2022-03-25T15:38:11 < karlp> now it's november...
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2022-03-25T15:42:01 < Sadale> There's a user called CatCow here. Maybe I should start collecting its poop and sell them. :3
2022-03-25T15:57:58 < fenugrec> holy leadfree directive, SAC wire solder is stupid expensive. 20$ for 60g ? gtfo
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2022-03-25T16:16:56 < jpa-> fenugrec: https://www.tme.eu/en/details/sac305-0.8_0.1/solder-wires-lead-free/cynel/   $12 for 100g and it only gets cheaper if you buy decent amounts
2022-03-25T16:20:23 < karlp> that doesn't fit the narrative ;)
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2022-03-25T16:31:03 < fenugrec> I'm distorting facts to my advantage, by quoting CAD$ for small quantities
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2022-03-25T16:46:46 < englishman> fen there are a lot of ripoffs
2022-03-25T16:46:55 < englishman> i like the multicore/loctite
2022-03-25T16:47:19 < englishman> i get it from diverse electronics (montreal co)
2022-03-25T16:47:31 < fenugrec> english, paste or wire ?
2022-03-25T16:47:36 < englishman> wire
2022-03-25T16:47:45 < englishman> paste i also get the loctite, but not from diverse it's never fresh
2022-03-25T16:51:11 < fenugrec> e.g. loctite 97SC ?
2022-03-25T16:55:58 < englishman> let me check in a bit i have a meeting
2022-03-25T16:56:23 < fenugrec> heh no worries. won't be on this DK order anyway
2022-03-25T16:58:16 < englishman> oh i got the SAC305
2022-03-25T16:58:31 < englishman> i forget why. more eutectic? lower temp?
2022-03-25T16:58:51 < englishman> 0.25, 0.38, 0.56, 0.81 mm
2022-03-25T16:59:19 < englishman> around $30-40 USD per 250g
2022-03-25T16:59:27 < fenugrec> quite the selection. I find .5mm covers all the work I do
2022-03-25T16:59:33 < fenugrec> right
2022-03-25T16:59:39 < englishman> but that was almost 2 years ago
2022-03-25T17:00:05 < englishman> C502 flux
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2022-03-25T17:05:42 < karlp> lol https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MBWPM.png
2022-03-25T17:05:59 < aandrew> lol
2022-03-25T17:05:59 < qyx> I am using only 0.5 mm too
2022-03-25T17:06:01 < aandrew> love those prices
2022-03-25T17:06:17 < karlp> I've finalyl joined the club
2022-03-25T17:06:33 < qyx> shortage club?
2022-03-25T17:06:42 < karlp> I'd been re-checking parts periodically for this new product, it was all "some concerns, but dates all looked ok, should be coming good by april/may"
2022-03-25T17:06:52 < fenugrec> heh
2022-03-25T17:06:53 < emeb> winsource - when you need parts more than money.
2022-03-25T17:06:53 < karlp> now I've got a handful of parts that are "lol, november, maybe"
2022-03-25T17:07:28 < karlp> and a couple of them would take some serious redesign work to work around, 
2022-03-25T17:07:46 < karlp> I had alternatives for a few of these, some of the "fallbacks" have even longer lead times now :)
2022-03-25T17:07:47 < qyx> EE is hard
2022-03-25T17:07:52 < qyx> maybe we could start singing instead
2022-03-25T17:09:24 < karlp> I wonder how reliably they would give me parts in november anyway
2022-03-25T17:09:25 < fenugrec> I'm thinking of picking up woodworking, but lumber is about 2-300% over "normal"
2022-03-25T17:09:39 < karlp> I've read of a few people complaining that they paid and still had dtes slip repeatedly.
2022-03-25T17:10:22 < emeb> what - the internet lies? unpossible!
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2022-03-25T18:52:39 < englishman> what happens when everyone on earth becomes realtors and stockbrokers and there is noone left to work?
2022-03-25T19:05:07 < karlp> we put them on a spaceship wiht the telephone sanitizers?
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2022-03-25T19:22:26 < emeb> This!
2022-03-25T19:23:26 < emeb> Narrator: Earth was actually Golgafrinch
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2022-03-25T19:37:33 < jpa-> englishman: how is realtor or stock broker different from any other sales job, and why would everyone become one?
2022-03-25T19:43:05 < englishman> related question, what happens when the only remaining industry is buying stuff that other people made and selling it at a higher price?
2022-03-25T19:45:21 < jpa-> there is a natural negative feedback and diminishing profits is reselling / arbitration
2022-03-25T19:45:50 < jpa-> *in
2022-03-25T19:46:21 < emeb> eventually you run out of things to sell, then the advantage of being the one who makes things increases to the point that more people go into that business than the reselling business.
2022-03-25T19:46:54 < englishman> but you can just buy more stuff to sell then sell some more stuff to buy then
2022-03-25T19:47:21 < emeb> yes but the arbitrage differential decreases to zero.
2022-03-25T19:47:33 < jpa-> englishman: why would anyone buy from you instead of where you buy from directly?
2022-03-25T19:47:37 < englishman> those plastic flamingo lawn ornaments need to go around the world at least 3 times before being thrown in the trash
2022-03-25T19:48:12 < englishman> i offer good service and a friendly face
2022-03-25T19:48:24 < englishman> not like those bastards i buy from!
2022-03-25T19:49:04 < englishman> you can be sure that if you need something, i might be there to help.
2022-03-25T19:49:26 < jpa-> so, why would anyone buy from emeb then? his face is not as friendly and service not as good, so he'll have to remain in production side
2022-03-25T19:49:37 < englishman> he's the one i buy from :<
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2022-03-25T19:49:50 < jpa-> sounds like everything is fine
2022-03-25T19:50:05 < jpa-> emeb provides the goods, worth $1, you provide the face and sales pitch, worth $100, everyone is happy
2022-03-25T19:50:13 < englishman> but he buys from you, and now you are out of stock and i have stock, that is actually stocked in emeb's warehouse
2022-03-25T19:50:14 < emeb> there's no system in the universe that someone can't figure out how to game to their advantage
2022-03-25T19:50:44 < englishman> so i can dropship you the thing and you can dropship it to emeb
2022-03-25T19:50:59 < emeb> It's like perpetual motion
2022-03-25T19:51:17 < jpa-> if emeb buys from me for $0.50, i certainly won't be paying englishman $100 for friendly faces
2022-03-25T19:51:29 < emeb> one of those Escher prints where you go upstairs in a circle forever
2022-03-25T19:51:41 < englishman> maybe you have a sugar daddy funding you so you can have -6000% margins
2022-03-25T19:51:56 < jpa-> nah, tct claims he is poor now
2022-03-25T19:52:09 < englishman> maybe he is the one buying for $100 and selling for $0.50
2022-03-25T19:52:25 < englishman> buy high sell low is a VERY popular investment strategy
2022-03-25T19:52:29 < Steffanx> Is that what he told you, jpa- ?
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2022-03-25T21:32:01 < aandrew> jadew: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32958344410.html are these things any good? I assume you need a BPF in front of them so you're only amplifying the frequency range of interest
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2022-03-25T21:41:07 < emeb> lol @ "For Arduino"
2022-03-25T21:41:09 < emeb> WTF?
2022-03-25T21:42:45 < emeb> also like how they spec NF but not gain.
2022-03-25T21:45:02 < emeb> SPF5198 mfg says product discontinued. Your guarantee of quality.
2022-03-25T21:59:03 < aandrew> well most gain is depending on power supply, stuff I'm reading suggests it's decent enough but 5V is perhaps too much for it and suggest 3V
2022-03-25T22:03:50 < catphish> 50-4000MHz, that's quite a claim
2022-03-25T22:04:41 < catphish> oh, only 0.6dB, is that a useful amount?
2022-03-25T22:04:57 < emeb> it's not unusual for some of those GaAs HEMT gain blocks to cover that range. Minicircuits, Skyworks, etc also sell stuff like that.
2022-03-25T22:05:19 < aandrew> catphish: no, that's the noise figure. lower is better and 0.6dB is deent
2022-03-25T22:05:20 < aandrew> decent
2022-03-25T22:05:32 < emeb> And that 0.6dB is the NF, not the gain. If you go to Mouser they have the datasheet for the part and it's speced for 12.8dB or so.
2022-03-25T22:05:36 < catphish> oh Gain 18.7dB at 900MHz
2022-03-25T22:05:53 < catphish> yeah that's a decent device, and 0.6dB *noise* seems reasonable
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2022-03-25T23:04:04 < mawk> read this aandrew https://linear.axler.net/
2022-03-25T23:04:45 < mawk> there's a shorter version here https://linear.axler.net/LinearAbridged.pdf
2022-03-25T23:10:09 < cristian_c> mawk: any ideas about the issue?
2022-03-25T23:10:31 < mawk> I never used stm8 cristian_c , so I don't really know
2022-03-25T23:10:35 < mawk> which program are you using again?
2022-03-25T23:10:40 < mawk> did you try official stm8programmer?
2022-03-25T23:11:03 < mawk> ah this message is from stvp so
2022-03-25T23:11:07 < mawk> have you tried to do what it says?
2022-03-25T23:11:09 < mawk> [00:00:00] <cristian_c> Try Now to SWITCH OFF and ON the application Power Supply while NRST Reset pin is forced low.
2022-03-25T23:11:26 < cristian_c> mawk: I've tried to get information avout that
2022-03-25T23:11:44 < cristian_c> but stvp doesn't include many optikns
2022-03-25T23:11:55 < cristian_c> ah, ok
2022-03-25T23:12:27 < cristian_c> about that, should I touch nrst connection?
2022-03-25T23:12:38 < mawk> yes, ground it
2022-03-25T23:12:42 < mawk> then connect the supply of the board
2022-03-25T23:14:59 < cristian_c> mawk: ok, but so, could I connect nrst fo the secind gnd pin on stm8s, disconnecting from rst pin on stlinkv2 programmer?
2022-03-25T23:15:29 < mawk> yeah disconnect the programmer, ground nrst, connect power supply, let nrst go, connect programmer again
2022-03-25T23:15:55 < mawk> if I understand correctly
2022-03-25T23:16:01 < cristian_c> mawk: btw, when I use stlinkv2 with srm8s, I never connect power supply to stm8s
2022-03-25T23:16:21 < cristian_c> because stvlinkv2 already supplies the board via 3v3 pin
2022-03-25T23:16:38 < cristian_c> ah, ok, sorry
2022-03-25T23:16:50 < cristian_c> now, I've understod
2022-03-25T23:16:56 < cristian_c> *oo
2022-03-25T23:17:07 < mawk> are you sure
2022-03-25T23:17:13 < mawk> swim header has 5V
2022-03-25T23:17:22 < mawk> the board isn't connected via usb?
2022-03-25T23:17:24 < mawk> how is it powered on
2022-03-25T23:17:59 < mawk> actually on a official stlink the "target_vcc" port is an input, not an output
2022-03-25T23:18:05 < mawk> so if you only connect the swim cable, your board is not powered on
2022-03-25T23:19:12 < cristian_c> people connect 4-pins header from stm8s to programmer (3v3, nrst , swim and gnd)
2022-03-25T23:19:55 < cristian_c> so, programmer provides power supply to the board via 3v3 pin
2022-03-25T23:20:01 < mawk> it's the other way around
2022-03-25T23:20:12 < mawk> the stlink is reading your target board 3V3 voltage to determine which voltage to use for its I/O
2022-03-25T23:20:19 < mawk> it's an input, not an output
2022-03-25T23:20:24 < mawk> but you must connect it yes
2022-03-25T23:20:44 < mawk> look in the manual: http://www.emcu.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ST-LINK-v2_SWIM.png
2022-03-25T23:20:57 < mawk> VDD of stlink is an input
2022-03-25T23:21:17 < mawk> if you connect only the cable, your board is not powered on; connect its usb port or whatever
2022-03-25T23:27:14 < cristian_c> mawk, I've disconnected the programmer from the board, then I've connected nrst pin to gnd pin and connected usb power supply. Finally I've disconnected poeer supply, disconnected wire between gnd and nrst, and connected the board to the programmer again
2022-03-25T23:27:35 < mawk> hmm it's not like this I think
2022-03-25T23:27:48 < mawk> disconnect both supply and programmer, then ground nrst, connect the supply, let nrst go, connect the programmer
2022-03-25T23:27:58 < mawk> you need to leave the supply connected
2022-03-25T23:28:03 < mawk> as I said, the programmer doesn't supply the board
2022-03-25T23:28:08 < cristian_c> mawk: btw, when I connect programer to he board, I always see the blue led on the board turned on, since the first time
2022-03-25T23:28:26 < mawk> do you have a stlink v2?
2022-03-25T23:28:29 < mawk> or a chinese clone
2022-03-25T23:28:47 < mawk> you can also backfeed the board from the swim pins and that would light leds up
2022-03-25T23:28:51 < mawk> but that's not good
2022-03-25T23:29:07 < cristian_c> mawk: I use the usual stlinkv2 cline
2022-03-25T23:29:12 < cristian_c> +common
2022-03-25T23:29:45 < mawk> that's not a stlink then
2022-03-25T23:29:59 < mawk> well hold nrst to ground, then connect the programmer, and let nrst go
2022-03-25T23:33:13 < kakium69> evening
2022-03-25T23:33:58 < kakium69> bestests evenings sires
2022-03-25T23:34:23 < kakium69> how is friday?
2022-03-25T23:34:40 < cristian_c> mawk: should I not removing nrst and gnd pin connection?
2022-03-25T23:35:03 < mawk> after you connect the programmer yes cristian_c 
2022-03-25T23:35:12 < mawk> if you're afraid of shorting stuff use a resistor to do it
2022-03-25T23:35:15 < mawk> like 10k
2022-03-25T23:35:17 < cristian_c> I mean, if I don't remove the connection I cannot connect gnd pin and nrst pin to the programmer
2022-03-25T23:35:19 < mawk> or 1k
2022-03-25T23:35:34 < cristian_c> mawk: I've just done that
2022-03-25T23:35:37 < mawk> then connect it to a breadboard to split it in two
2022-03-25T23:35:47 < mawk> or use another nrst and gnd pin on the pins around the board
2022-03-25T23:35:50 < mawk> if it's available
2022-03-25T23:36:52 < cristian_c> mawk: I mean, I've shorted nrst and gnd, then I've connected usb powet supply to the board, then I've removed the connection between nrst and gnd, so I connected the board to the programmer, always using usb power supply connected
2022-03-25T23:37:10 < mawk> if you have a clone stlink then it is maybe powering the board as you said
2022-03-25T23:37:14 < mawk> I've never used it so I'm not sure
2022-03-25T23:37:19 < mawk> but then you might want to not connect usb at the same time
2022-03-25T23:37:35 < mawk> if it didn't burst in flames then it's probably fine
2022-03-25T23:37:46 < cristian_c> (the board has alternative pin fro rst and gnd, btw)
2022-03-25T23:38:48 < mawk> then you can use them
2022-03-25T23:38:56 < mawk> ground nrst, connect programmer, release
2022-03-25T23:38:58 < mawk> and try stvp again
2022-03-25T23:39:15 < cristian_c> mawk: users thst own this common programmer usually make four connections as I said at first (without connecting usb power supply, btw)
2022-03-25T23:39:15 < mawk> assuming you have a chinese clone which provides power to the board through 3V3 pin
2022-03-25T23:39:26 < mawk> yeah don't connect the supply
2022-03-25T23:39:36 < mawk> ground nrst, connect the programmer (including 3V3 pin), then release nrst
2022-03-25T23:39:39 < mawk> and try stvp again
2022-03-25T23:39:50 < cristian_c> btw, I made that as suggested before, unfortunstely
2022-03-25T23:39:52 < mawk> I thought you had a real stlink
2022-03-25T23:40:12 < mawk> I thought you said you released nrst before connecting
2022-03-25T23:40:18 < mawk> if you tried like I just said then I don't know
2022-03-25T23:40:44 < mawk> stm32 support connect under reset to fix the cases where you uploaded code that disables the SWDIO interface; I don't know if it's the same on stm8 but apparently yes
2022-03-25T23:40:53 < mawk> stvp should be doing that for you
2022-03-25T23:41:10 < mawk> but maybe it's an option and it's not enabled, look around in the program for a "connect under reset" button
2022-03-25T23:41:42 < cristian_c> at first , I released nrst before connecting, then I read that power supply should stays connected, so I changed the method
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2022-03-25T23:42:28 < cristian_c> btw, I can ground nrst, but then I should connect programmer rst pin
2022-03-25T23:43:38 < cristian_c> (btw, swd is stm32 only, so swim is used for stm8)
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2022-03-25T23:43:57 < mawk> yes I know
2022-03-25T23:44:08 < mawk> I said on stm32 you can connect under reset to fix hard cases
2022-03-25T23:44:22 < mawk> look in the stvp options for that
2022-03-25T23:44:43 < mawk> power supply shouldn't be connected when you hold nrst, the goal is to have nrst low when the board is first powered on
2022-03-25T23:44:43 < cristian_c> unfortunstely, stvp doesn't include many options
2022-03-25T23:46:29 < cristian_c> mawk: if I short gnd and nrst, which pins have to be connected from the programmer?
2022-03-25T23:46:47 < mawk> all of them
2022-03-25T23:46:51 < cristian_c> (considering gnd and nrst are busy due to the short)
2022-03-25T23:47:34 < cristian_c> mawk: so, should I connect programmer gbd abd rst pins to alternative rst and gnd stm8s pins?
2022-03-25T23:47:54 < cristian_c> mawk: so, should I connect programmer gnd and rst pins to alternative rst and gnd stm8s pins?
2022-03-25T23:48:24 < mawk> yes if these are the ones that are free
2022-03-25T23:49:49 < cristian_c> yeah, the 4-pins header is bus6 (3v3 and swim connected to the programmer and gnd and nrst shortee between themselfes)
2022-03-25T23:49:54 < cristian_c> *selves
2022-03-25T23:49:58 < mawk> probably if you look in stm8 manual it will say what to do
2022-03-25T23:50:10 < mawk> you can short the alternative nrst and ground, cristian_c 
2022-03-25T23:50:16 < mawk> to keep the pins free for the programmer
2022-03-25T23:53:52 < cristian_c> ah, ok
2022-03-25T23:54:07 < cristian_c> I reverse the pin choice
2022-03-25T23:57:09 < cristian_c> ok, I've released the nrst short
2022-03-25T23:57:18 < cristian_c> then I've to test again with stvp open
--- Day changed la maalis 26 2022
2022-03-26T00:00:07 < mawk> maybe you need to do it exactly when stvp tells you, is there a delay when it prints this message?
2022-03-26T00:02:34 < cristian_c> mawk: no, for what I remember, it prints that immediately
2022-03-26T00:02:50 < cristian_c> but now, I try
2022-03-26T00:04:48 < mawk> also like englishman asked last time, why did you pick stm8?
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2022-03-26T00:10:25 < cristian_c> mawk: ok, tried now, but when nrst and gnd are shorted nothing happens, even after error message appears in stvp
2022-03-26T00:11:07 < cristian_c> and when I try to press program memory option in stvp and when I remove the short from the board
2022-03-26T00:11:47 < cristian_c> mawk: as I said, I should use stm8s in order to test swim connection for other consumer board
2022-03-26T00:12:32 < cristian_c> mawk: btw, jow I get a lok to emcu.eu url
2022-03-26T00:12:40 < cristian_c> *now
2022-03-26T00:18:29 < cristian_c> ok, I've saved the png picture from the url
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2022-03-26T00:29:58 < Posterdati> hi
2022-03-26T00:31:09 < Posterdati> please help, I'm trying to debug with gdb an stm32f4-discovery (stm32f407vgt6), but when I read memory at 0x40011000 I always got 0x00000000. Thanks!
2022-03-26T00:32:06 < cristian_c> mawk: I've looked at stm8s datasheet but I've found nothing uuseful, apart what you said before
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2022-03-26T02:09:37 < aandrew> mawk: is that linear algebra relating to that earlier conversation about CRCs?
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2022-03-26T03:49:51 < mawk> yes in a way aandrew 
2022-03-26T03:49:57 < mawk> you would learn about formal polynomials in them
2022-03-26T03:50:01 < mawk> which is what CRC was using
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2022-03-26T08:40:44 < jpa-> Posterdati: sounds like you may have forgotten to enable the USART1 clock in RCC config registers
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2022-03-26T09:33:14 < Posterdati> jpa-: shall I enable it first and the write registers?
2022-03-26T09:33:29 < jpa-> yes
2022-03-26T09:33:44 < Posterdati> sounds reasonable :)
2022-03-26T09:34:00 < Posterdati> jpa-: thanks
2022-03-26T09:34:59 < jpa-> :)
2022-03-26T09:40:00 < Posterdati> mmmh seems to be the same
2022-03-26T09:41:26 < Posterdati> I wrote 0x00000010 in RCC_APB2LPENR
2022-03-26T09:42:06 < Posterdati> ah
2022-03-26T09:42:09 < Posterdati> the reset bit too
2022-03-26T09:43:27 < Posterdati> shall I reset after the clock was enabled?
2022-03-26T09:48:10 < jpa-> usually you don't need to touch the reset bit
2022-03-26T09:48:34 < jpa-> but LPENR is only for the low power mode
2022-03-26T09:48:42 < jpa-> you want APB2ENR
2022-03-26T09:56:29 < Posterdati> ok
2022-03-26T09:58:20 < Posterdati> it works!
2022-03-26T09:58:36 < Posterdati> now 0x40011000 space appears to be activbe!
2022-03-26T09:59:06 < jpa-> http://efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/index.html    congrats, you've tackled gotcha 1 out of 96
2022-03-26T09:59:27 < Posterdati> now
2022-03-26T10:00:34 < Posterdati> I'd like to use DebugMon_Handler to hardwire a simple monitor into the stm32f4-discovery board and use the USART1 as serial interface for a console. Would be better to use the USB OTG as serial interface?
2022-03-26T10:01:26 < jpa-> usart is going to be easier to access for interrupt-only code
2022-03-26T10:01:51 < jpa-> what you describe sounds similar to https://github.com/adamgreen/mri
2022-03-26T10:02:49 < mawk> that sounds a bit like rtt too
2022-03-26T10:03:14 < mawk> you could skip the usart with that
2022-03-26T10:03:25 < jpa-> i usually do debugging through SWD / SWO only, unless for some reason they are not available
2022-03-26T10:27:59 < benishor> as a recent convert to sdw/swo, I would like to +1 what jpa- said
2022-03-26T10:28:39 < benishor> much less hassle than usart for debugging
2022-03-26T10:35:24 < Posterdati> the idea is to have a standalone board with a commodore c128 like os on it
2022-03-26T10:36:14 < jpa-> sounds like micropython or mmbasic then
2022-03-26T10:36:29 < Posterdati> or commander x16 like
2022-03-26T10:37:12 < Posterdati> it would be a retrocomputer on steroids
2022-03-26T10:37:51 < jpa-> if it doesn't run existing retro software, it is just generic microcontroller made less useful
2022-03-26T10:38:00 < Posterdati> the only missing thing would be a video card o it
2022-03-26T10:38:38 < Posterdati> jpa-: it would be like the commander x16
2022-03-26T10:39:48 < jpa-> commander x16 seems to be a board for an actual 65C02 cpu
2022-03-26T10:40:16 < Posterdati> yes, it is basic compatible with c64
2022-03-26T10:40:31 < Posterdati> you can run commodore c64 basic programs on it
2022-03-26T10:41:04 < jpa-> so, you are trying to emulate that on STM32F4?
2022-03-26T10:41:33 < Posterdati> not emulating, porting
2022-03-26T10:41:59 < Posterdati> the only problem is the lack of a video circuitry
2022-03-26T10:43:36 < jpa-> that seems rather trivial problem, just add whatever display interface you want
2022-03-26T10:43:43 < Posterdati> yes
2022-03-26T10:43:52 < Posterdati> it is very simple using the stm32 
2022-03-26T10:43:58 < jpa-> but other than that, sounds pretty weird and useless to port C64 basic to ARM
2022-03-26T10:44:30 < jpa-> aren't there already plenty of projects that emulate C64 with better compatibility than a mere basic port would achieve
2022-03-26T10:44:52 < Posterdati> the idea is not to emulate a c64
2022-03-26T10:45:15 < jpa-> and if it is to program new programs/games for the STM32, there are more useful programming languages
2022-03-26T10:45:40 < Posterdati> initially I would like to use lisp repl 
2022-03-26T10:45:57 < jpa-> starts to sound like it has nothing to do with commander x16
2022-03-26T10:46:33 < jpa-> unless you consider "processor, keyboard and display" somehow unique combination
2022-03-26T10:46:51 < Posterdati> cl ha got no small memory footprint
2022-03-26T10:47:11 < jpa-> ulisp exists
2022-03-26T10:47:20 < Posterdati> for a full implementation
2022-03-26T10:47:26 < Posterdati> ulisp is not cl
2022-03-26T10:48:11 < Posterdati> ulisp ran on c64 
2022-03-26T10:48:19 < jpa-> so you aim to port a full common lisp somehow into 256 kB ram?
2022-03-26T10:49:08 < Posterdati> the initial idea was that
2022-03-26T10:49:50 < jpa-> you can always just connect more RAM if cl is what you want
2022-03-26T10:50:11 < Posterdati> well the language itself is not so big
2022-03-26T10:50:27 < Posterdati> libraries can be hold onto an sd card
2022-03-26T10:50:29 < jpa-> this sounds like one of those projects where people invent weird limitations just to have more "fun" - which is of course fine but often seems weird to outsiders
2022-03-26T10:50:44 < Posterdati> no completely
2022-03-26T10:51:09 < Posterdati> this device would serve as standalone device for monitoring :)
2022-03-26T10:51:16 < jpa-> monitoring what?
2022-03-26T10:51:40 < jpa-> if you mean a standalone device to run common lisp.. we already have those, they are called computers
2022-03-26T10:51:41 < Posterdati> so basically one would use CL as scripting language to configure the board and achieve simply tasks
2022-03-26T10:52:04 < jpa-> for simple tasks, wouldn't ulisp be more than adequate?
2022-03-26T10:52:41 < Posterdati> you cannot place a computer on a trellis hundred of kilometers away from civilization :)
2022-03-26T10:53:03 < jpa-> why not?
2022-03-26T10:53:14 < Posterdati> energy
2022-03-26T10:53:51 < jpa-> there are plenty of low energy high-performance ARM platforms, some people call them smartphones
2022-03-26T10:53:58 < Posterdati> a computer would request more energy than a simple discovery board
2022-03-26T10:54:42 < jpa-> and a STM32F4 discovery running cl will use more energy than STM32L4 running micropython
2022-03-26T10:55:31 < Posterdati> we will see
2022-03-26T10:57:26 < Posterdati> the idea to use commander x16 like software is due to the fact to its lower memory footprint
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2022-03-26T14:55:51 < rajkosto> https://youtu.be/e0eCOkU5HNA?t=544 imagine not using DRC for a board youre going to send other people
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2022-03-26T15:55:50 < kakium69> is "type" c++ keyword?
2022-03-26T15:56:34 < kakium69> using type = std::uint32_t;
2022-03-26T15:57:41 < kakium69> this makes class to behaive like a standard type?
2022-03-26T16:02:24 < Steffanx> It's a type alias. Using..
2022-03-26T16:02:40 < kakium69> it has assignment operator
2022-03-26T16:03:26 < Steffanx> Yes.
2022-03-26T16:03:56 < Steffanx> using kaki = std::shittype 
2022-03-26T16:04:05 < kakium69> roasted
2022-03-26T16:05:10 < kakium69> what is difference to typedef kaki = std::roasted_t ?
2022-03-26T16:05:40 < kakium69> typedef std::roasted_t kaki_t
2022-03-26T16:05:42 < kakium69> *
2022-03-26T16:06:05 < Steffanx> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10747810/what-is-the-difference-between-typedef-and-using-in-c11 ;0
2022-03-26T16:06:06 < Steffanx> ;)
2022-03-26T16:06:47 < kakium69> so should I use typedef?
2022-03-26T16:07:10 < kakium69> at all
2022-03-26T16:08:24 < Steffanx> i guess it depends how you want to use them, but i would say no.
2022-03-26T16:09:07 < Steffanx> unless you want to do this https://stackoverflow.com/a/62196340
2022-03-26T16:09:56 < Steffanx> but please tell me you dont write code like that
2022-03-26T16:10:57 < kakium69> typedef as for loop initializer?
2022-03-26T16:19:46 < kakium69> I don't even understand what that example is about
2022-03-26T16:20:06 < kakium69> looks hacky
2022-03-26T16:20:14 < kakium69> https://pastebin.com/KMADM8Pb
2022-03-26T16:21:30 < kakium69> I think I use this thing like this: int_to_size<1>::type variable;
2022-03-26T16:23:01 < kakium69> I forgot the example mawk gave me
2022-03-26T16:23:33 < kakium69> bbl>
2022-03-26T16:23:40 < Steffanx> have fun sir
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2022-03-26T17:00:49 < mawk> Steffanx https://www.reddit.com/r/thenetherlands/comments/tojbma/de_duitse_eetcultuur_wordt_verrijkt_met_wat/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
2022-03-26T17:01:09 < mawk> I want this
2022-03-26T17:02:58 < jpa-> can't you just bake one?
2022-03-26T17:15:10 < Steffanx> Yeah easy
2022-03-26T17:15:33 < Steffanx> How many frikandel speciaal did you have yet, mawk 
2022-03-26T17:15:47 < mawk> maybe 100
2022-03-26T17:16:03 < mawk> I'm fake french jpa- I don't cook
2022-03-26T17:16:20 < mawk> partly because I don't have a dishwasher and I don't want to clean by hand
2022-03-26T17:16:31 < jpa-> what do you have to clean for a pizza?
2022-03-26T17:17:09 < jpa-> even if you are so lazy that mixing flour with water is too difficult, you can just buy a premade frozen dough and just add the toppings
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2022-03-26T17:18:09 < Steffanx> Did you also get the xxl speciaal mawk?
2022-03-26T17:18:45 < mawk> every tray and ustensil that was used jpa- 
2022-03-26T17:18:51 < mawk> no Steffanx where do I get that?
2022-03-26T17:18:56 < mawk> yeah premade dough maybe
2022-03-26T17:19:14 < Steffanx> Idk at the snackbat
2022-03-26T17:19:23 < Steffanx> R
2022-03-26T17:20:04 < Steffanx> Snacksbats give you corona
2022-03-26T17:21:32 < jpa-> mawk: the baking paper can be thrown away or saved for next use; but i agree, you will need to wash one fork, though you could reuse that for eating also
2022-03-26T17:22:46 < Steffanx> Are you a good cook mr jpa-?
2022-03-26T17:23:20 < jpa-> not sure of that, but i cook half of our meals
2022-03-26T17:36:25 < karlp> lol at that sprintlayout tool
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2022-03-26T18:10:18 < Steffanx> https://www.dominos.nl/frikandutchman you know they have something similar as that pizza, mawk?
2022-03-26T18:23:27 < bitmask> heh this is gonna take forever: https://i.imgur.com/9lo6yE9.png
2022-03-26T18:23:33 < bitmask> tiny tank until i get more copper sulfate
2022-03-26T18:23:40 < bitmask> 3d prints are a pain in the ass, they are so buoyant
2022-03-26T18:27:57 < zyp> I don't think it's recommended to stick 3d-printed stuff up your ass
2022-03-26T18:28:58 < bitmask> now you tell me
2022-03-26T18:37:01 < Steffanx> People put weirder things up there..
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2022-03-26T18:48:04 < englishman> just use one eating knife that you wipe down and put back in its sheath like how the world lived before dishwashers
2022-03-26T18:49:37 < jpa-> in finland we had one wooden spoon and licked it clean before hanging it on the wall to dry
2022-03-26T18:50:46 < englishman> would the spoons get passed down in the family? or would the whittling of a new one be a rite of passage kind of thing?
2022-03-26T18:51:05 < jpa-> i doubt they'd last that long, being of softwood
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2022-03-26T19:27:33 < mawk> https://www.covenanteyes.com/
2022-03-26T19:27:37 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2022-03-26T19:27:44 < mawk> but I had mackroket at mcdonalds
2022-03-26T19:30:14 < mawk> englishman: I have throwaway forks and knives so I don't have to wash them
2022-03-26T19:30:14 < oz4ga> That sound very dutch krokets in a burger
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2022-03-26T19:30:37 < englishman> what a waste
2022-03-26T19:30:58 < mawk> it's in wood
2022-03-26T19:31:10 < mawk> perfect for the environment
2022-03-26T19:56:35 < Steffanx> Krokets are nice oz4ga 
2022-03-26T20:00:46 < mawk> yes
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2022-03-26T21:52:17 < kakium69> evenings sires
2022-03-26T22:14:14 < Steffanx> Gooday 
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2022-03-26T22:46:35 < kakium69> I feel tired
2022-03-26T22:46:37 < kakium69> kinda
2022-03-26T22:46:49 < Steffanx> thats good
2022-03-26T22:47:22 < kakium69> you know just empty feeling
2022-03-26T22:47:30 < kakium69> no enthusiasm
2022-03-26T22:48:03 < kakium69> comming down from high
2022-03-26T22:56:26 < qyx> same here because of stm32mp1
2022-03-26T22:56:30 < qyx> and other things
2022-03-26T22:57:39 < Steffanx> Yep, welcome to ##kindadepressed32 ?
2022-03-26T22:59:44 < kakium69> didnt have energy dring
2022-03-26T23:00:43 < Steffanx> fuck energy drink
2022-03-26T23:03:22 < qyx> I bough some oregano and basil seeds
2022-03-26T23:03:44 < kakium69> buy seed potatos
2022-03-26T23:03:45 < qyx> the spring is coming
2022-03-26T23:03:54 < qyx> #farming32
2022-03-26T23:04:06 < Steffanx> Spring is already here, but next week itll be leaving again
2022-03-26T23:04:14 < qyx> yeah we will seed potatoes too
2022-03-26T23:04:19 < qyx> but not here
2022-03-26T23:04:35 < qyx> near parents in the north
2022-03-26T23:06:28 < englishman> it snowed today
2022-03-26T23:06:33 < englishman> -10C tonight
2022-03-26T23:06:55 < kakium69> it snowed last night, today and next night
2022-03-26T23:07:16 < kakium69> samesame englishman
2022-03-26T23:07:47 < englishman> is there good souvlaki in slovakia
2022-03-26T23:10:04 < qyx> sou what
2022-03-26T23:10:33 < qyx> I guess it was arou d +15°C today
2022-03-26T23:14:11 < qyx> oh we call it ražniči
2022-03-26T23:14:26 < qyx> also similar to sasliky
2022-03-26T23:15:34 < qyx> to be honest I habe not seen a single restaurant serving it
2022-03-26T23:16:09 < qyx> but saslik is more common to the east, .ua
2022-03-26T23:16:13 < qyx> afaik
2022-03-26T23:21:26 < kakium69> englishman: did you say souvlaki space station? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRtnS0MHq_A
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2022-03-26T23:33:26 < qyx> interesting, similar to postrock
2022-03-26T23:36:26 < qyx> and she is a bit like anneke, but not much
2022-03-26T23:39:26 < kakium69> it's 100% shoegazing
2022-03-26T23:41:09 < kakium69> when it's packed with reverb guitars and you cannot make sense of lyrics it's shoegaze
2022-03-26T23:41:48 < qyx> and whats postrock then
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2022-03-26T23:42:57 < qyx> I can see 80% match
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2022-03-26T23:44:25 < kakium69> probs
2022-03-26T23:45:19 < kakium69> gazing is always melancholic - idk about post-rock
2022-03-26T23:48:27 < kakium69> 0% aggression too
--- Day changed su maalis 27 2022
2022-03-27T00:02:19 < qyx> do you know god is an astronaut? it is usually given as an example
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2022-03-27T00:14:08 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMyQiBXXLQQ
2022-03-27T00:14:14 < qyx> they are kakiing much
2022-03-27T00:15:32 < qyx> she is right, if there is a place where do people choose to live in even if they are not obliged to, you can create great community
2022-03-27T00:18:23 < kakium69> main difference is that in shoegazes it's just packed with guitars and everything but vocals are reverb'd to 11 until it makes the sound becomes like this flood of noise
2022-03-27T00:18:56 < kakium69> even drums are reverb'd
2022-03-27T00:19:31 < kakium69> looks like an outpost that place
2022-03-27T00:35:04 < kakium69> how is innovations?
2022-03-27T00:41:24 < qyx> stalling
2022-03-27T00:45:44 < mawk> and you Steffanx how many frikandels did you ingurgitate?
2022-03-27T00:47:11  * emeb commits reverb on this here ESP32
2022-03-27T00:48:05 < kakium69> how is that multiboard modular computer microcontroller thing qyx?
2022-03-27T00:48:24 < kakium69> what was your webpage url?
2022-03-27T00:48:59 < kakium69> what would be industry name for such system?
2022-03-27T00:50:14 < kakium69> Modular Data acquisition platform?
2022-03-27T00:52:44 < qyx> exactly
2022-03-27T00:53:56 < qyx> I was doing that stm32mp1 board recently
2022-03-27T00:54:03 < qyx> failed on lpddr3
2022-03-27T00:55:12 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-27T00:55:18 < kakium69> main board?
2022-03-27T00:55:29 < kakium69> teh brain?
2022-03-27T00:55:41 < qyx> yes
2022-03-27T00:55:58 < qyx> I was looking forward, but apparently too much
2022-03-27T00:56:19 < qyx> then they dare to say that they never really meant to support lpddr3
2022-03-27T00:56:31 < qyx> because ST couldn't find any usecases
2022-03-27T00:57:08 < qyx> I am waiting if anyone replies to my question on ST community
2022-03-27T01:06:10 < kakium69> and the lpddr3 is the lowest power variable of ddr?
2022-03-27T01:06:18 < kakium69> *variety of
2022-03-27T01:07:21 < mawk> now I know enough dutch to traverse robot phone menus where you hear a screeching robotic voice sampled to 4kHz bandwidth
2022-03-27T01:07:25 < mawk> are you proud of me Steffanx 
2022-03-27T01:09:14 < qyx> kakium69: the lowest supported by mp1
2022-03-27T01:09:34 < qyx> actually it depends, lpddr2 may be even less power hungry
2022-03-27T01:11:26 < zyp> 22:29:44 < emeb> bad electrolytic capacitors - that's the #1 go-to diagnosis for all misbehaving electronics these days.
2022-03-27T01:11:32 < zyp> you called it
2022-03-27T01:11:33 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4MMGp.jpg
2022-03-27T01:12:06 < zyp> this is the input cap to the PSU as far as I can tell
2022-03-27T01:12:11 < emeb> zyp: nice - looks like that sausage is almost ready to eat.
2022-03-27T01:12:12 < fenugrec> nice
2022-03-27T01:12:19 < fenugrec> I can smell it from here
2022-03-27T01:13:15 < zyp> so, is it usually enough to just replace it?
2022-03-27T01:13:26 < zyp> it wouldn't have taken other shit with it when it died?
2022-03-27T01:13:38 < fenugrec> you were probably lucky that's a one-side pcb. look for corrosion anyway on the copper though
2022-03-27T01:14:00 < fenugrec> the soldermask usually peels off the copper when that's the case
2022-03-27T01:14:10 < qyx> bleh I hate those pohenolic single side pcbs
2022-03-27T01:14:26 < emeb> zyp: replace, clean up any leaks.
2022-03-27T01:14:26 < qyx> they stink much worse than the burnt cap
2022-03-27T01:14:28 < fenugrec> what's wrong with them ? easy to reverse engineer and fix. No vias to rip out
2022-03-27T01:14:46 < emeb> if you still have issues debug further.
2022-03-27T01:14:52 < fenugrec> +1
2022-03-27T01:14:53 < zyp> fair enough
2022-03-27T01:15:02 < qyx> the material, not the fact they are single sided
2022-03-27T01:15:10 < fenugrec> qyx, fair nuff
2022-03-27T01:15:18 < zyp> wonder if we have any suitable replacement caps at work, might go have a look tomorrow
2022-03-27T01:15:26 < fenugrec> if there's any other cap of the same brand, I'd replace them on sight  too : )
2022-03-27T01:15:41 < emeb> Usually if a PSU cap fails then there's so much AC on the DC rails that complex digital stuff never gets out of reset.
2022-03-27T01:15:56 < emeb> but generally the supply limits are not exceeded.
2022-03-27T01:16:04 < emeb> ie the regulators still work.
2022-03-27T01:16:08 < zyp> makes sense
2022-03-27T01:17:03 < zyp> there's one small cap that also looks a bit puffy, rest looks good
2022-03-27T01:17:36 < emeb> If you've got an LCR meter you might at least test the good looking ones in-circuit.
2022-03-27T01:17:50 < emeb> otherwise you may be coming back to them in a few months
2022-03-27T01:18:41 < emeb> in-circuit you won't get accurate results, but ballpark farads  & ESR may be useful
2022-03-27T01:19:06 < zyp> oh, wait, it's not just a bit puffy, that one also failed
2022-03-27T01:19:57 < emeb> and while you're at it look for those nasty RIFA caps across the AC mains.
2022-03-27T01:20:03 < zyp> bit puffy on top, and then it blew out the bottom: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bCL6j.jpg
2022-03-27T01:20:20 < emeb> whoops
2022-03-27T01:20:25 < fenugrec> haha
2022-03-27T01:20:27 < emeb> butt plug came out
2022-03-27T01:20:32 < fenugrec> what is that ? some AV gear ?
2022-03-27T01:20:56 < zyp> monitor
2022-03-27T01:22:30 < zyp> 16 years old or so
2022-03-27T01:23:06 < zyp> was my primary monitor for a couple of years, and then it's been the secondary monitor in portrait mode since
2022-03-27T01:23:07 < fenugrec> looks like some 2005 datecodes
2022-03-27T01:23:22 < zyp> sounds about right, pretty sure I bought it early 2006
2022-03-27T01:23:22 < fenugrec> I should try a portrait mon some time
2022-03-27T01:23:37 < zyp> 20" is a good size for that
2022-03-27T01:24:23 < fenugrec> my second monitor is 4:3, not much to gain
2022-03-27T01:24:36 < zyp> so I'd rather fix this than search for another monitor that fits on the desk
2022-03-27T01:26:20 < fenugrec> I'm all for fixing stuff rather than tossing more crap into the landfill.
2022-03-27T01:26:26 < emeb> I bet you get it going no problem.
2022-03-27T01:28:52 < zyp> yeah, it didn't seem to fail violently, and it turned on once after it first turned off
2022-03-27T01:31:15 < jadew> my ISP introduced a new offer: 10 Gbps for 10 euro
2022-03-27T01:34:58 < qyx> aggregated with the whole town?
2022-03-27T01:35:20 < jadew> I assume with the whole internet
2022-03-27T01:36:11 < jadew> they'd probably have to up grade the equipment outside the building if they haven't already
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2022-03-27T01:36:37 < jadew> *upgrade
2022-03-27T01:37:31 < jadew> how much does a 10 Gbps switch cost?
2022-03-27T01:37:50 < zyp> depends how many and what kind of ports you want
2022-03-27T01:38:46 < jadew> I would want at least 2-3 ports @ 10 Gbps, the rest can be 1 Gbps
2022-03-27T01:38:54 < jadew> many ports
2022-03-27T01:38:59 < jadew> my current switch has 24
2022-03-27T01:39:13 < zyp> tons of gigabit switches with two or four SFP+ ports
2022-03-27T01:39:28 < qyx> dell 6248 for example
2022-03-27T01:39:33 < zyp> mine got 24 gigabit switches with poe and four SFP+ ports
2022-03-27T01:39:38 < qyx> you surely can get it for 100e
2022-03-27T01:39:40 < qyx> refurnished
2022-03-27T01:39:52 < jadew> neat
2022-03-27T01:40:12 < qyx> we used them in 2008 or so
2022-03-27T01:40:17 < zyp> my router also has two SFP+ ports: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XeOGf.jpg
2022-03-27T01:40:24 < qyx> there are also mikrotiks and ubnt
2022-03-27T01:40:45 < zyp> only thing missing is fiber cabling so I can get 10gbe out of the network closet :p
2022-03-27T01:41:00 < zyp> currently the only 10gbe link I got is between the switch and router
2022-03-27T01:41:07 < jadew> that looks nice, I guess I could live with just a couple of 10 gbps ports, and keep the current one with the 24 gigabit ones
2022-03-27T01:41:39 < zyp> yeah, I have a smaller mikrotik as well with 8 gigabit ports and two SFP+
2022-03-27T01:41:50 < qyx> which one?
2022-03-27T01:42:09 < zyp> one of the older CRS series, I think it's EOL
2022-03-27T01:42:13 < jadew> that rack looks nice
2022-03-27T01:42:15 < qyx> also I miss your rock basement
2022-03-27T01:42:29 < zyp> I have a new basement rack now
2022-03-27T01:42:38 < zyp> well, not basement, it's all above ground, but still
2022-03-27T01:42:47 < qyx> and without the rock
2022-03-27T01:43:15 < qyx> rack without a rock doesn't cou t
2022-03-27T01:44:39 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HyliT.jpg
2022-03-27T01:44:54 < jadew> ok, it looks like too much hassle for now, I don't feel the need for higher speeds
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2022-03-27T01:45:33 < jadew> most services I access don't even make full use of the current bandwidth
2022-03-27T01:46:34 < qyx> zyp: nice one, looks like stage/audio styled racks
2022-03-27T01:47:40 < zyp> I've been thinking about getting a few more servers to stuff into it now that I can do it in an organzied manner
2022-03-27T01:47:49 < mawk> what else are you putting in it zyp 
2022-03-27T01:48:03 < zyp> some guy nearby is selling an old blade chassis that I almost got tempted to pick up, but that would be a bit overkill
2022-03-27T01:48:13 < mawk> I modded the server rack of our company
2022-03-27T01:48:28 < qyx> also a bit noisy
2022-03-27T01:48:29 < mawk> by opening the door past the maximum it could open I did what's known as breaking the hinges
2022-03-27T01:48:36 < mawk> now it's much better ventilated
2022-03-27T01:49:34 < zyp> I think main issue with a blade chassis is that I don't have enough power available there to cover peak consumption, and I'm not gonna run a new circuit for it either :p
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2022-03-27T01:49:47 < mawk> buy giant capacitors
2022-03-27T01:50:06 < zyp> and anything affordable would be obsolete and inefficient/power hungry
2022-03-27T01:50:46 < zyp> so I'm currently eyeing some quad node servers
2022-03-27T01:50:56 < qyx> I only have 10" 6U
2022-03-27T01:50:59 < zyp> four servers in 2U, shared redundant PSU
2022-03-27T01:51:02 < qyx> and it is still empty
2022-03-27T01:51:15 < qyx> I am not interested in serving stuff anymore
2022-03-27T01:51:49 < qyx> I would like to build a low power solid state nas thjough
2022-03-27T01:52:10 < zyp> I want to play with kubernetes, set up a redundant home server cluster
2022-03-27T01:52:48 < qyx> apparently you don't have enough kids
2022-03-27T01:52:55 < zyp> haha
2022-03-27T01:53:44 < zyp> well, it's more like I want kubernetes, but I don't want to fuck with the setup on the server I got
2022-03-27T01:54:29 < zyp> so I'm thinking about getting some new ones to play with, and then once it works, move stuff over to kubernetes and then maybe even add old server to the cluster
2022-03-27T01:56:15 < zyp> and it'd be good to have some redundancy, old server is 9 years or so, and it's running a bunch of stuff that I'd quickly miss if it failed
2022-03-27T01:56:25 < kakium69> chromium based browsers have a critical security flaw that is being exploited at the moment - update your browser
2022-03-27T01:57:52 < qyx> by russians?
2022-03-27T02:00:43 < kakium69> probs
2022-03-27T02:01:10 < jadew> link?
2022-03-27T02:02:47 < kakium69> CVE-2022-1096
2022-03-27T02:06:05 < qyx> do we have a description?
2022-03-27T02:06:15 < qyx> I cannot find anything
2022-03-27T02:06:42 < jadew> me neither
2022-03-27T02:06:53 < jadew> guess it's time to reinstall all your OSes
2022-03-27T02:12:00 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-27T02:12:11 < kakium69> it's that bad
2022-03-27T02:12:33 < jadew> how do you know?
2022-03-27T02:13:16 -!- fenugrec [~f@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2022-03-27T02:13:49 < kakium69> https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2022/03/stable-channel-update-for-desktop_25.html
2022-03-27T02:15:12 < kakium69> it's like couple hours old
2022-03-27T02:15:34 < kakium69> update that is
2022-03-27T02:16:33 < jadew> yeah, guess I'll reinstall and maybe plan my OS usage a little better
2022-03-27T02:21:00 < jadew> it would probably take a couple of days to install everything back
2022-03-27T02:32:15 < kakium69> https://i.redd.it/eyf2qkb8kxt31.jpg
2022-03-27T02:32:31 < kakium69> that could do it
2022-03-27T02:35:29 < jadew> so how can you mitigate this risk, especially on a development machine?
2022-03-27T02:35:36 < jadew> (the risk of malware)
2022-03-27T02:36:19 < kakium69> idk
2022-03-27T02:36:43 < jadew> I guess visiting only safe sites is a good idea
2022-03-27T02:37:13 < jadew> obviously, allowing microsoft or another company to spy on you, so they can make sure the links you're about to visit are safe, is also an option
2022-03-27T02:37:37 < jadew> then there's all the opensource shit we tend to install via package managers
2022-03-27T02:37:41 < jadew> you never know what you pull in
2022-03-27T02:38:13 < jadew> so I suppose that on top of some preemptive measures data separation has to be done too
2022-03-27T02:38:33 < jadew> (important emails from non-important ones)
2022-03-27T02:39:23 < jadew> one thing I do lately is I keep my NAS turned off most of the time
2022-03-27T02:40:16 < jadew> a one way network protocol would be good
2022-03-27T02:40:49 < jadew> so you can send your backups there
2022-03-27T02:46:56 < kakium69> or just file versioning
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2022-03-27T02:47:57 < kakium69> or is it called snapshotting
2022-03-27T02:48:30 < jadew> don't know, I do regular incremental backups, but lately they're too big for DVDs
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2022-03-27T18:54:45 < benishor> [02:40] <jadew> a one way network protocol would be good
2022-03-27T18:54:58 < benishor> use scp with private key
2022-03-27T18:55:10 < benishor> disable pam authentication
2022-03-27T18:55:22 < benishor> you should be good
2022-03-27T18:59:37 < benishor> I would also keep important things in cloud, dropbox/google drive since I can make use of their infra for ha, redundancy and versioning
2022-03-27T19:04:13 < Steffanx> Until they hack your machine and get the key benishor ...
2022-03-27T19:05:03 < benishor> sure
2022-03-27T19:05:26 < benishor> there is nothing which cannot be broken. you can just make it harder to break
2022-03-27T19:05:53 < benishor> even 2FA can be broken given enough interest
2022-03-27T19:06:08 < benishor> so if you're a target and you get spearfished, chances are you're fucked
2022-03-27T19:06:28 < benishor> question is: are you so important though?
2022-03-27T19:06:39 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-03-27T19:06:58 < benishor> if not, basic security hygiene will get you far
2022-03-27T19:07:51 < benishor> that's why I mentioned the cloud as remotely versioned persistent medium
2022-03-27T19:08:11 < benishor> if your computer gets haxx0red and funked up, you can still get those files back
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2022-03-27T19:35:17 < qyx> until your account with a password resembling your cat's name is hacked too
2022-03-27T19:39:22 < mawk> local backups achieve the same thing
2022-03-27T19:39:52 < mawk> and are not susceptible to being hacked, unless the hacker is hackerman and can access remote disconnected drives
2022-03-27T19:39:54 < benishor> I don't do backups per-se. I do remotely stored git repositories and cloud storage
2022-03-27T19:40:53 < benishor> you can recover the files in the worst case scenario
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2022-03-27T20:41:44 < kakium69> eveningss
2022-03-27T20:48:17 < catphish> is all USB PD equal, or is PD just the overall standard? like, can some PD provide more voltage than others?
2022-03-27T20:48:31 < zyp> PD is the standard for negotiation
2022-03-27T20:49:09 < catphish> so the actual voltages and currents are entirely device-dependent? apart from 5V 0.5A?
2022-03-27T20:49:37 < zyp> yeah, within the bounds of the standard
2022-03-27T20:49:57 < catphish> the reason i ask is that i want to buy some chargers that will work with all my devices, i have some 65W lenovo chargers that work great, but they're kinda expensive, was hoping to buy something generic that does the same
2022-03-27T20:50:04 < zyp> PD 2.0 or whatever the current version is does up to 20V and 5A
2022-03-27T20:50:15 < zyp> i.e. 100W
2022-03-27T20:50:25 < zyp> 60W I believe is typically 20V 3A
2022-03-27T20:51:02 < zyp> next version will increase upper limit to 48V
2022-03-27T20:51:17 < catphish> that's cool
2022-03-27T20:51:47 < zyp> also, your devices will probably cope with <65W chargers as well
2022-03-27T20:51:55 < catphish> looks like 65W is a pretty standard spec
2022-03-27T20:52:01 < zyp> my macbook happily charges from a non-PD phone charger even
2022-03-27T20:52:03 < zyp> yeah
2022-03-27T20:52:47 < catphish> i think my laptop acknowledges my phone charger but won't actually *charge*
2022-03-27T20:53:10 < catphish> i'll buy a 65W generic PD charger, i guess at that power it's very likely to provide the voltage the laptop needs
2022-03-27T20:53:19 < zyp>  yes
2022-03-27T20:54:13 < zyp> I've got a 30W IKEA one by the couch that I plug my laptop into when I'm using it on the couch, and that works great
2022-03-27T20:54:41 < catphish> actually, fuck it, refurb lenovo ones on ebay are only £15
2022-03-27T20:54:56 < zyp> why not get a multi-port one?
2022-03-27T20:55:17 < catphish> i don't really need multiple ports
2022-03-27T20:55:24 < catphish> i just have chargers in a lot of places
2022-03-27T20:58:05 < zyp> these are nice: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html
2022-03-27T20:58:42 < catphish> this is what i've been using https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304352551485
2022-03-27T20:58:43 < zyp> maybe not so nice in UK, but
2022-03-27T20:59:05 < catphish> the multi-port might be useful in some places
2022-03-27T21:00:18 < zyp> great for travel, one charger that does everything at once
2022-03-27T21:00:58 < catphish> i have one each end of the couch, one on my desk, one each side of the bed, one in each laptop bag
2022-03-27T21:01:41 < catphish> i love USB C because you can just leave cables hanging everywhere and plug in whatever device
2022-03-27T21:01:51 < zyp> agreed
2022-03-27T21:02:15 < zyp> except my wife uses iphone :p
2022-03-27T21:02:16 < catphish> which is why i prefer hanging cables to usb *sockets* because with sockets you need to carry around a cable too
2022-03-27T21:02:27 < catphish> my wife also uses an iphone, she has her own charger
2022-03-27T21:02:29 < catphish> stupid apple
2022-03-27T21:02:56 < zyp> hence why multi port chargers are nice, you can have multiple kinds of cables from the same charger :p
2022-03-27T21:03:10 < catphish> i also have a head lamp with micro-b charging, but there's a special place in hell for that
2022-03-27T21:06:04 < catphish> my new office is complete! https://imgur.com/a/fYRn8I5
2022-03-27T21:07:20 < zyp> haha, yeah, I'm avoiding buying stuff using other connectors than usb-c
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2022-03-27T21:18:23 < jpa-> catphish: your heating system looks fancy
2022-03-27T21:18:43 < kakium69> is that fake fireplace?
2022-03-27T21:20:06 < catphish> kakium69: no, i believe it's a bread oven, though it's no longer functional
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2022-03-27T21:20:35 < kakium69> quite short for bread oven
2022-03-27T21:20:41 < catphish> i'd demolish it, but my wife likes the historical value
2022-03-27T21:21:04 < kakium69> is there rest of it behind / inside that wall?
2022-03-27T21:21:29 < catphish> that's why it's no longer functional, it's been bricked up from the other side (this is now a party wall)
2022-03-27T21:21:59 < catphish> it appears that it was once deeper, but the back was demolished and bricked up from behind
2022-03-27T21:22:49 < catphish> it's a very old house that has been re-divided since it was built
2022-03-27T21:47:07 < mawk> Steffanx: I have my dutch A2 level exam in a week
2022-03-27T21:47:10 < mawk> then I will start B1 classes
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2022-03-27T22:04:21 < karlp> what's the smallish beige box to the right of the laser printer catphish ?
2022-03-27T22:04:48 < karlp> nice looking office space though, looks freshly setup, too neat :)
2022-03-27T22:06:56 < catphish> karlp: yes, i just finished it, it's not had a chance to get trashed yet :D
2022-03-27T22:08:09 < catphish> karlp: that's a mini-itx PC, it used to be a gaming PC, now i use it as a server/NAS/CCTV box
2022-03-27T22:09:40 < catphish> to the right of that is a yealink phone, bosch heating thermostat, and zyxel access point
2022-03-27T22:10:11 < kakium69> catphish: how is EV?
2022-03-27T22:10:42 < kakium69> battery box status?
2022-03-27T22:10:55 < catphish> kakium69: slow and steady as ever, last week i spent much of the week working on modifying the oil pump in the tesla drive unit to run in reverse, this is a scary bit that has to be correct!
2022-03-27T22:11:14 < kakium69> run in reverse what
2022-03-27T22:11:20 < catphish> battery box has been ordered, just a basic cuboid of sheet steel, awaiting completion
2022-03-27T22:11:21 < kakium69> you change gearing?
2022-03-27T22:11:47 < kakium69> I remember something about changing the gearing or something that requires oil pump mod
2022-03-27T22:12:10 < catphish> kakium69: tesla mount it with the motor behind the rear axle, i needed it in front of the rear axle, so it had to be rotated 180 degrees around the ground-sky axis
2022-03-27T22:12:24 < kakium69> ah yes
2022-03-27T22:12:30 < catphish> this means that to drive the car forward, the motor has to run on the opposite direction to the original tesla vehicle
2022-03-27T22:12:31 < kakium69> is there a kit for reverse oil pump?
2022-03-27T22:12:53 < catphish> this is not a problem for the motor, but the oil pump would just blow bubbles into the oil :)
2022-03-27T22:13:17 < catphish> no, there is no kit :( so i'm engineering it myself, based on somebody else's documentation of how they did it
2022-03-27T22:14:08 < catphish> the pump does work in reverse, but 1) it has a pressure regulator, which needs to be reworked to regulate the pressure the pipe that was previously the input and is now the output, instead of the pipe that was originally the output
2022-03-27T22:14:24 < kakium69> is it model 3 motor?
2022-03-27T22:14:53 < catphish> and 2) the input and output pipes have to be swapped, which is nontrivial because the input was originally a mounted, moulded, hard plastic part
2022-03-27T22:15:00 < catphish> model S
2022-03-27T22:16:18 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CGpCw-lPf8 one commercial solution
2022-03-27T22:16:47 < qyx> what do you have oil pump for?
2022-03-27T22:16:49 < qyx> hydraulics,
2022-03-27T22:16:51 < kakium69> no
2022-03-27T22:16:51 < qyx> ?
2022-03-27T22:17:04 < kakium69> lubrication
2022-03-27T22:17:22 < kakium69> it has squirters
2022-03-27T22:17:32 < kakium69> for bearings and gears
2022-03-27T22:17:51 < qyx> oh
2022-03-27T22:17:57 < qyx> and aren't you by any chance hydraulic pros?
2022-03-27T22:18:04 < qyx> ##hydraulic32
2022-03-27T22:18:29 < kakium69> not really
2022-03-27T22:18:41 < qyx> I can do pneumatics, but that's not much practical for a tractor
2022-03-27T22:20:10 < kakium69> catphish: I would use ready made commercial solution like one in the link
2022-03-27T22:20:40 < kakium69> I think there is more than 1 ev shop that provides such conversions
2022-03-27T22:20:46 < kakium69> for oil pump
2022-03-27T22:21:58 < Steffanx> Gefeliciteerd mawk
2022-03-27T22:30:56 < catphish> kakium69: if one existed for the small drive unit, i'd use it in an instant
2022-03-27T22:31:11 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-27T22:31:59 < kakium69> is the small drive unit same type of layout than large drive unit?
2022-03-27T22:32:33 < catphish> same concept, but totally different internals
2022-03-27T22:37:06 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBFSS82ZLY4 they have LSD for small drive unit
2022-03-27T22:42:13 < kakium69> I think it's torsen-style torque-biasing LSD https://www.quaife.co.uk/quaife-products/atb-limited-slip-differential/
2022-03-27T23:07:15 < kakium69> in c++ can I make equality test between types from template?
2022-03-27T23:07:25 < kakium69> for static assert
2022-03-27T23:08:23 < kakium69> type C needs to be same than type A or type B
2022-03-27T23:10:25 < Steffanx> like https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/is_same ?
2022-03-27T23:11:12 < kakium69> sweet
2022-03-27T23:11:16 < kakium69> thx
2022-03-27T23:13:05 < englishman> so what happens when you drive in reverse? it just blows itself up?
2022-03-27T23:14:03 < kakium69> no lubrication
2022-03-27T23:14:09 < mawk> std::is_same takes into account cv-qualification, you maybe don't want it
2022-03-27T23:14:12 < mawk> i.e. const and volatile qualification
2022-03-27T23:16:46 < kakium69> can I make template to not accept types with CV?
2022-03-27T23:16:59 < kakium69> only typename
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2022-03-27T23:23:00 < mawk> you can unqualify the type yes kakium69 
2022-03-27T23:23:16 < kakium69> how
2022-03-27T23:23:17 < mawk> with std::remove_cv
2022-03-27T23:23:28 < mawk> then it will be the bare type without const nor volatile
2022-03-27T23:23:48 < kakium69> does typename include cv?
2022-03-27T23:24:06 < kakium69> in template <typename mytype_t>
2022-03-27T23:28:44 < mawk> yes
2022-03-27T23:28:54 < mawk> if you instanciate the template with a cv-qualified type
2022-03-27T23:29:22 < mawk> like template <typename T> class mytemplate{...}; then you do mytemplate<const int>;
2022-03-27T23:29:25 < mawk> so T will be const int
2022-03-27T23:29:35 < mawk> if you want it unqualified pass it through std::remove_cv
2022-03-27T23:45:43 < kakium69> mkay
2022-03-27T23:46:40 < kakium69> whaat c++ can use "and" instead of "&&" ?
2022-03-27T23:48:03 < kakium69> is this true?
2022-03-27T23:48:41 < kakium69> I see static assert example with multiple statements separated by "and"
2022-03-27T23:54:41 < zyp> #define and &&
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2022-03-27T23:55:43 < zyp> but seriously: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/operator_alternative
2022-03-27T23:56:42 < kakium69> never use em though?
2022-03-27T23:58:40 < kakium69> primary operators are sacred right?
--- Day changed ma maalis 28 2022
2022-03-28T00:00:17 < zyp> don't write code that's hard to read
2022-03-28T00:01:50 < kakium69> unable
2022-03-28T00:29:46 < karlp> it's for the transmission I suppose?
2022-03-28T00:30:09 < karlp> man, been weirdly stuck in semi scroll back recently.
2022-03-28T00:30:40 < qyx> I am weirdly stuck too
2022-03-28T00:30:57 < karlp> mp1 blues still?
2022-03-28T00:31:24 < karlp> you're the point now hwere "tuning" should work in theory, but the tuning tool throws NPEs ans crashes? and there's no docs on doing it by hand?
2022-03-28T00:31:25 < qyx> yeah, today some manual work though
2022-03-28T00:32:04 < qyx> update here https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00001SMYE4SAP/cannot-access-lpddr3-memory-from-a-stm32mp153aabxx?t=1648305351170
2022-03-28T00:33:21 < karlp> eych, that sucks :|
2022-03-28T00:33:37 < qyx> tuning should not be needed, bate lanes are length matched quite precisely
2022-03-28T00:33:57 < karlp> ddr init always sounds like a shit show though, 
2022-03-28T00:34:19 < karlp> shouldn't need "tuning" but still needs the magic numbers dropped into the right registers, because the _silicon_ needs it's _own_ tuning
2022-03-28T00:34:37 < qyx> so idk what now
2022-03-28T00:35:05 < qyx> if this doesn't work, I have basically two possibilities
2022-03-28T00:35:17 < qyx> 1. move to DDR3L 16 bit and try again
2022-03-28T00:35:32 < qyx> 2. move to sama5d27 SiP with LPDDR2
2022-03-28T00:35:35 < karlp> 1. is nominally "supported" by st right?
2022-03-28T00:35:43 < qyx> yeah
2022-03-28T00:36:03 < karlp> didn't you discard sama5d a whiel ago though?
2022-03-28T00:36:43 < qyx> yes because stm32mp1 is much cooler and I can do acquisition with cm4 and wakeup ca7 only when needed
2022-03-28T00:36:52 < qyx> also can-fd which sama5d27 doesn't have
2022-03-28T00:37:15 < qyx> I am using sama5d27 now in a SoM
2022-03-28T00:37:26 < qyx> I discarded that SoM, not the SiP
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2022-03-28T01:13:04 < MangyDog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1508203949089828873
2022-03-28T01:16:09 < kakium69> nice
2022-03-28T01:16:39 < MangyDog> thankies
2022-03-28T01:23:23 < englishman> karlp, teslas are single speed direct drive
2022-03-28T01:23:36 < englishman> the only 2 speed i know of is the porsche taycan
2022-03-28T01:24:22 < englishman> hence an oilpump straight up not working in reverse is a little weird
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2022-03-28T01:44:04 < kakium69> you are not driving kilometers backwards are you?
2022-03-28T01:44:53 < kakium69> I wonder if teslas have same motor torque backwards
2022-03-28T01:44:58 < kakium69> I doubt it
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2022-03-28T02:00:21 < englishman> probably limited by software
2022-03-28T02:01:13 < englishman> just seems like a pretty egregious oversight, especially if it is displacing oil with air. So i assume there is some other missing knowledge here
2022-03-28T02:32:09 < kakium69> oil squirters are not active when reversing thats all
2022-03-28T02:32:57 < kakium69> gears and bearings still have oil residue
2022-03-28T02:36:08 < kakium69> and if you limit torque the oil film doesnt wear out too quickly and there is not too much heat
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2022-03-28T02:39:52 < kakium69> you are not doing launches backwards lighting up tyres and then accelerate to 200km/h backwards
2022-03-28T03:29:02 < jadew> best shit ever: found a Norwegian TV show that also dubbed in English, but by the same actors, so it sounds exactly the same
2022-03-28T03:29:17 < jadew> *that's
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2022-03-28T05:34:59 < catphish> the motor and inverter are perfectly capable of providing the same torque backwards, it's just software limited, indeed
2022-03-28T05:35:45 < catphish> englishman: displacing oil with air really isn't an issue, gravity will immediately cause oil to re-fill the space :)
2022-03-28T05:36:44 < catphish> for short distances at low speed, residual oil will suffice
2022-03-28T05:38:19 < catphish> exactly what kakium69 said
2022-03-28T05:40:47 < catphish> the oil is for lubrication and cooling of the gears as far as i can tell, it's gear oil so that makes sense
2022-03-28T05:42:46 < catphish> i think the same oil cools the motor windings too, though i'm not certain
2022-03-28T05:45:06 < catphish> kakium69: this is the interior if you're interested https://i.imgur.com/JohnUt5.jpg - 3 phase power goes in bottom left, motor behind, that large gear on the right is the differential - https://i.imgur.com/MpCrb5L.jpg
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2022-03-28T13:48:04 < zyp> jadew, which one?
2022-03-28T13:51:01 < qyx> fucking cube
2022-03-28T13:51:43 < qyx> I regenerated device tree files and the thing outputs 16 bit configuration with a register value clearly stating it is configuring the DDR for 32 bits
2022-03-28T13:52:10 < qyx> furiously clicking here and there, getting multiple null pointer exceptions
2022-03-28T13:52:18 < benishor> qyx: modify the setup in a user section afterwards
2022-03-28T13:52:19 < qyx> closing/opening the project at least 5 times
2022-03-28T13:52:25 < benishor> must be a bug
2022-03-28T13:52:35 < qyx> half a million bugs
2022-03-28T13:52:40 < benishor> :(
2022-03-28T13:52:42 < zyp> quality software
2022-03-28T13:53:18 < qyx> if I modify anything, the clock frequency value disappears
2022-03-28T13:53:31 < qyx> then it says oh I don't have a clock
2022-03-28T13:53:33 < qyx> no shit sherlock
2022-03-28T13:53:52 < qyx> but it cannot be filled again, it is filling automatically from the clock control panel
2022-03-28T13:54:00 < qyx> so you have to close the project and reopen it
2022-03-28T13:57:04 < jadew> zyp, ragnarok - don't know if I'll keep watching tho, it's moving a little too slow
2022-03-28T13:57:13 < zyp> ah
2022-03-28T13:57:32 < zyp> I haven't watched it, but I think my wife liked it
2022-03-28T13:58:05 < jadew> saw the whole first season
2022-03-28T13:58:39 < jadew> I think they could have ended it there, because it would have been a decent ending
2022-03-28T14:04:01 < jadew> farnell keeps sending me emails with a subject...
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2022-03-28T14:15:34 < Laurenceb> sup trolls
2022-03-28T14:15:48  * Laurenceb is still trying to make simulink behave
2022-03-28T14:15:55 < Laurenceb> its optimising out my c code
2022-03-28T14:16:59 < Laurenceb> anyone got any idea how to fix this? I can write registers on the micro, but cant read them because it thinks that they arent volatile
2022-03-28T14:17:46 < Laurenceb> volatile within a struct fails in simulink
2022-03-28T14:19:28 < karlp> fuck bandwidth, just decided that a 20Mhz scope is enough for most of what I really do, and bought one :)
2022-03-28T14:19:38 < karlp> cheap enough I can blow it  up again amirite?
2022-03-28T14:19:42 < zyp> haha
2022-03-28T14:20:12 < jadew> you blew up your scope?
2022-03-28T14:20:17 < karlp> still kinda want to buy a nice 4 channel like the mso5k, but that has to be a prize/reward for something, not just "fuck it, I need this"
2022-03-28T14:20:46 < karlp> I took improper care with grounding and isolation and blew up a usb hub, a keyboard, and a usb scope, yes...
2022-03-28T14:20:49 < zyp> karlp, I could have sold you my old riglol :p
2022-03-28T14:21:00 < karlp> fuck that, we have a riglol at work and it's too loud
2022-03-28T14:21:15 < karlp> got a hantek 6022BL
2022-03-28T14:21:40 < karlp> and if I'm going to buy a desk one, with a display, I want a new one, not your old, what, 40mhz riglol?
2022-03-28T14:22:00 < zyp> hey, 40MHz is twice as much as 20 :p
2022-03-28T14:22:24 < jadew> isn't the rigol ds1000z series super cheap now?
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2022-03-28T14:23:34 < Laurenceb> should declaring a struct volatile cause all its members to be volatile?
2022-03-28T14:24:03 < zyp> presumably
2022-03-28T14:24:40 < Laurenceb> hmm simulink doesnt mind it, but it optimises it all away anyway
2022-03-28T14:24:46 < jadew> can you declare a struct volatile or a variable that's a struct?
2022-03-28T14:24:59 < Laurenceb> the struct
2022-03-28T14:25:19 < Laurenceb> declaring a struct comprised of volatile variables causes an error
2022-03-28T14:25:21 < jadew> like volatile struct Whatever {}; ?
2022-03-28T14:25:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-03-28T14:25:35 < Laurenceb> that compiles but is removed by optimisation
2022-03-28T14:25:47 < jadew> maybe because the volatile applies to the optional variable
2022-03-28T14:25:57 < jadew> volatile struct Whatever {} to_this;
2022-03-28T14:26:18 < jadew> I would have guessed that access to the struct is volatile, while it's contents is not
2022-03-28T14:26:24 < jadew> *its
2022-03-28T14:27:21 < jadew> not sure how helpful that would be tho...
2022-03-28T14:27:27 < zyp> how can you access a struct and not its contents?
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2022-03-28T14:28:10 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe I'll try declaring a volatile instance of the struct, rather than trying to make the struct itself volatile
2022-03-28T14:28:51 < jadew> zyp, the variable would hold its address, so access to that address could be left out of the optimization
2022-03-28T14:28:58 < jadew> while access to the underlying data wouldn't
2022-03-28T14:29:30 < jadew> so if you said my_var = new_struct; in an ISR, the compiler could still use the old address
2022-03-28T14:29:42 < jadew> (without volatile)
2022-03-28T14:29:56 < zyp> wat
2022-03-28T14:30:28 < jadew> if you access myStruct (variable), what happens?
2022-03-28T14:30:34 < zyp> you're talking about volatile pointers, which is something other than pointer to volatile
2022-03-28T14:30:43 < jadew> you first load the address from myStruct, add the offset to your member, and load it
2022-03-28T14:31:14 < karlp> jadew: riglol ds1102z is ~270euro plus shipping, 1054z is ~324euro plus shipping, I got the hantek for ~60euro
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2022-03-28T14:31:23 < zyp> the volatile qualifier is in many respects similar to the const qualifier
2022-03-28T14:31:35 < karlp> so, yeah, cheap, but if I'm paying 300 euro, I'd rather pay more and go all the way, 
2022-03-28T14:31:57 < jadew> well, in this case it would force the compiler to re-load the address every time you accessed a member
2022-03-28T14:32:35 < zyp> yes and no
2022-03-28T14:32:47 < jadew> but the idea being that access to the struct was volatile, so if you had a pointer to MyStruct::member, then it wouldn't be volatile
2022-03-28T14:32:55 < jadew> because the struct was volatile, not the member
2022-03-28T14:33:04 < qyx> karlp: hantek what, scope?
2022-03-28T14:33:14 < karlp> 6022bl.
2022-03-28T14:33:46 < karlp> looks effectively ~similar to the smartscope shit I had before, with what looks like better sw options, but I lose the AWG that I never used anyway.
2022-03-28T14:33:49 < zyp> jadew, a volatile pointer to a struct doesn't make the struct itself volatile, just the pointer
2022-03-28T14:33:52 < jadew> zyp, that said, I don't know if that's how it works, I'm just explaining my thought process
2022-03-28T14:34:03 < jadew> zyp, I know
2022-03-28T14:34:19 < qyx> karlp: works on fedora?
2022-03-28T14:34:20 < jadew> what I meant was that the member itself, it's definition wouldn't be volatile
2022-03-28T14:34:25 < jadew> *its
2022-03-28T14:34:55 < zyp> correct, and the pointer would lose the volatile qualifier as soon as you copied it
2022-03-28T14:35:03 < zyp> let me show you
2022-03-28T14:35:24 < Laurenceb> simulink optimises out
2022-03-28T14:35:38 < Laurenceb> extern volatile I2C_t I2C_registers;
2022-03-28T14:35:44 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I'm aware of that too, I realized it would come off wrong the moment I hit enter
2022-03-28T14:36:05 < zyp> jadew, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/jXPR0
2022-03-28T14:36:17 < zyp> e.g. something like that
2022-03-28T14:36:26 < jadew> yeah, I know
2022-03-28T14:37:16 < zyp> should compile without warning, and looses the volatile qualifier as soon as you call bar(), because the only thing that's volatile is the address stored in foo_p, so only the read to feed it to bar() is volatile
2022-03-28T14:37:18 < jadew> what I meant was that if you took a pointer to the &Struct::member
2022-03-28T14:38:04 < zyp> well, if you have an actual volatile struct and make a pointer to a member, I think you actually get a pointer to volatile
2022-03-28T14:38:05 < jadew> (I was trying to imply that member is not volatile anyway)
2022-03-28T14:38:16 < jadew> really?
2022-03-28T14:38:23 < zyp> that's how it works for const?
2022-03-28T14:38:32 < jadew> hmm, I guess you would because you still have struct access
2022-03-28T14:38:36 < karlp> qyx: well, it has both sigrok and some openhantek stuff that says linux, so, presuming so...
2022-03-28T14:39:22 < jadew> it's interesting this const analogy you're making
2022-03-28T14:40:24 < jadew> I think it breaks the moment you pass it by reference - or is the compiler warning you?
2022-03-28T14:40:48 < jadew> or even as a pointer, like in your example
2022-03-28T14:41:11 < zyp> hmm, I was wrong
2022-03-28T14:41:37 < jadew> on which part?
2022-03-28T14:42:18 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/e6zjsE934
2022-03-28T14:43:26 < zyp> oh, wait, my bad
2022-03-28T14:43:35 < jadew> bool foo_a_direct_is_volatile = std::is_volatile<decltype(foo.a)>::value;
2022-03-28T14:43:40 < jadew> also yields 0
2022-03-28T14:44:08 < zyp> yeah, I forgot to deref the pointer, but still same result
2022-03-28T14:44:27 < Laurenceb> nope this is never going to work :(
2022-03-28T14:44:36 < jadew> so it's the struct access that's volatile
2022-03-28T14:44:51 < jadew> Laurenceb, can you not declare each property to be volatile?
2022-03-28T14:45:00 < jadew> together with the struct itself?
2022-03-28T14:45:09 < jadew> the struct variable
2022-03-28T14:45:12 < Laurenceb> no
2022-03-28T14:45:23 < jadew> why not?
2022-03-28T14:45:26 < Laurenceb> simulink gives me an "AggregateType" error
2022-03-28T14:45:38 < jadew> https://godbolt.org/z/33znT39qG
2022-03-28T14:45:41 < jadew> well, it seems to work
2022-03-28T14:45:56 < Laurenceb> sure, it works in c
2022-03-28T14:46:12 < Laurenceb> I need to make it pass through the simulink preprocessor
2022-03-28T14:46:36 < Laurenceb> I'll trawl through the forums to see what the AggregateType error is about
2022-03-28T14:47:44 < Laurenceb> structure member does not match field in underlying aggregate type
2022-03-28T14:47:53 < tomeaton17> does anyone work in defence?
2022-03-28T14:48:11 < Laurenceb> I used to
2022-03-28T14:48:19 < zyp> jadew, it is inherited, I think just the way I'm using the trait is wrong or buggy
2022-03-28T14:48:29 < karlp> shakking babbies to make the enemy fear your insanity
2022-03-28T14:48:41 < jadew> zyp, did you test it with actual code and it worked?
2022-03-28T14:49:06 < tomeaton17> Laurenceb destructive defence?
2022-03-28T14:49:32 < zyp> I tried with const and is_const() and getting the same result, but as soon as you try assinging through it, it complains about it being const, despite is_const() returning 0
2022-03-28T14:49:34 < Laurenceb> no, satellite stuff
2022-03-28T14:49:39 < jadew> zyp, also, are you talking about reference/pointer to volatile or about pointer to member?
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2022-03-28T14:49:49 < zyp> member
2022-03-28T14:49:52 < Laurenceb> hmm I have no clue what the error means
2022-03-28T14:50:05 < zyp> reference/pointer to member inherits the qualifiers of the struct
2022-03-28T14:50:08 < zyp> like expected
2022-03-28T14:50:49 < jadew> but you can't have a const struct
2022-03-28T14:50:59 < jadew> you can have a const struct instantce
2022-03-28T14:51:03 < jadew> can I see your code?
2022-03-28T14:51:30 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/WbMo8h7fT
2022-03-28T14:51:57 < jadew> right, in that case it's correct
2022-03-28T14:52:08 < zyp> uncomment the assignment and you get: <source>:17:11: error: cannot assign to variable 'foo_a' with const-qualified type 'const volatile int &'
2022-03-28T14:52:26 < zyp> despite is_const claiming foo_a is not const
2022-03-28T14:52:48 < zyp> ah
2022-03-28T14:52:56 < zyp> If T is a reference type then is_const<T>::value is always false. The proper way to check a potentially-reference type for const-ness is to remove the reference: is_const<typename remove_reference<T>::type>.
2022-03-28T14:53:40 < zyp> bingo: https://godbolt.org/z/7f3defaoo
2022-03-28T14:54:39 < jadew> right, but in that case it's normal to inherit it
2022-03-28T14:54:53 < jadew> because you have const struct access, which yields a const
2022-03-28T14:54:53 < zyp> also works for volatile: https://godbolt.org/z/WPaffK1e3
2022-03-28T14:55:09 < jadew> so your auto is not about the struct, but about the result of the const struct access
2022-03-28T14:55:17 < jadew> which was a struct to begin with
2022-03-28T14:55:25 < zyp> that's irrelevant
2022-03-28T14:55:29 < jadew> foo_a doesn't know anything about the struct
2022-03-28T14:55:31 < jadew> it is
2022-03-28T14:55:39 < jadew> because the const you're assessing is a regular const
2022-03-28T14:55:51 < jadew> give me a sec
2022-03-28T14:56:06 < zyp> it's the same for volatile: https://godbolt.org/z/seTnWco6Y
2022-03-28T14:56:26 < jadew> https://godbolt.org/z/4e8ve8h7Y
2022-03-28T14:56:32 < jadew> the member is not const
2022-03-28T14:57:01 < zyp> of course not
2022-03-28T14:57:25 < jadew> ok, the last code you posted seems very convincing
2022-03-28T14:57:32 < zyp> also with pointer: https://godbolt.org/z/r36xo7T4K
2022-03-28T14:58:18 < jadew> ok, I'm convinced
2022-03-28T14:58:21 < zyp> but then again, this is what Laurenceb is fucking around with: https://godbolt.org/z/cc3W6fcTe
2022-03-28T14:58:24 < zyp> warning: 'volatile' is not permitted on a declaration of a type [-Wmissing-declarations]
2022-03-28T14:58:37 < jadew> so volatile access, yields volatile members
2022-03-28T14:58:58 < zyp> I'm not sure access is the right term, but yes
2022-03-28T14:59:35 < jadew> you know what I wonder now...
2022-03-28T15:00:16 < zyp> but this is valid and works: https://godbolt.org/z/b5x4Tcen8
2022-03-28T15:00:25 < jadew> weather foo_a is a direct pointer to the member's address or if it's a member to the volatile structure + offset
2022-03-28T15:00:46 < zyp> the former
2022-03-28T15:00:50 < jadew> would be interesting to see how the compiler output looks like and if it's any different from a pointer to non-volatile member
2022-03-28T15:00:52 < zyp> pointers are pointers
2022-03-28T15:01:08 < jadew> well, then it would break the volatileness of the struct, wouldn't it?
2022-03-28T15:01:28 < karlp> lol, 48bit is ~= 64bit right? https://github.com/SiliconLabs/gecko_sdk/blob/gsdk_4.0/platform/service/sleeptimer/src/sl_sleeptimer.c#L76 and https://github.com/SiliconLabs/gecko_sdk/blob/gsdk_4.0/platform/service/sleeptimer/src/sl_sleeptimer.c#L495
2022-03-28T15:01:29 < jadew> actually it wouldn't
2022-03-28T15:01:35 < zyp> no, you're still mixing up struct and pointer to struct
2022-03-28T15:01:40 < jadew> I was yeah
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2022-03-28T15:02:01 < Laurenceb> fuck simulink
2022-03-28T15:02:05 < Laurenceb> fuck this shit
2022-03-28T15:02:05 < zyp> and even if you had a volatile pointer to a volatile struct, you deref the pointer when making the new pointer
2022-03-28T15:02:20 < zyp> i.e. the same copying I mentioned earlier
2022-03-28T15:02:31 < zyp> Laurenceb, absolutely
2022-03-28T15:02:38 < Laurenceb> zyp: yeah its a fault with simulink
2022-03-28T15:02:42 < Laurenceb> this is basic c code
2022-03-28T15:03:35 < Laurenceb> I'll write a bash script to edit the c code
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2022-03-28T15:11:20 < Laurenceb> ok we have a plan
2022-03-28T15:11:36 < Laurenceb> include an external c code file, then use global variables to control it
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2022-03-28T15:19:54 < Laurenceb> looks like there are strict rules for "c code blocks", and volatile wont work
2022-03-28T15:25:05 < Laurenceb> it will work for single variables but not structures
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2022-03-28T16:18:48 < Laurenceb> I tried setting the registers as a function block input, but that also got optimised out by sinmulink
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2022-03-28T16:58:41 < karlp> lel, wch uploaded "sch and pcb for all our parts" to a github repo
2022-03-28T16:58:50 < karlp> it's a github repo, contianing a single zip file
2022-03-28T16:58:56 < karlp> pro...
2022-03-28T16:59:07 < karlp> (zip file of course contains AD and protel format files)
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2022-03-28T17:18:24 < aandrew> heh
2022-03-28T17:46:50 < karlp> so, baremetal still gives 100ms timer+dma irqs when debugging, and erratic ~147ms after reset, 
2022-03-28T17:47:00 < karlp> so, good news, it's not an rtos vs baremetal issue...
2022-03-28T17:47:14 < karlp> it's presumably just some fundamental low energy mode bullshit
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2022-03-28T18:06:00 < zyp> karlp, fun
2022-03-28T18:07:00 < karlp> not really :)
2022-03-28T18:07:17 < karlp> spent far too long on this already,
2022-03-28T18:10:56 < aandrew> hm
2022-03-28T18:11:42 < aandrew> is there a difference with WFE vs WFI? If you disable low power on the mcu altogether doees it improve?
2022-03-28T18:12:02 < karlp> sure, if I don't go to low power, debug and "after pushing reset" are both solid 100ms.
2022-03-28T18:12:07 < karlp> but that's not very interesting....
2022-03-28T18:12:25 < karlp> I mean, it's relevant, but it's not _helpful_ directly.
2022-03-28T18:13:23 < zyp> isn't wfe and wfi pretty much equivalent?
2022-03-28T18:14:27 < karlp> I've at least never truly followed when the distinction matters.
2022-03-28T18:17:48 < aandrew> I think WFE will also wake up for the eventi/o stuff and doesn't go iinto nearly as deep a sleep
2022-03-28T18:18:13 < aandrew> WFE is kind of the hardware support for things like a spinlock where you're trying to eke out the last bits of power
2022-03-28T18:19:25 < catphish> today i hack a jetski :) https://i.imgur.com/KkcqoXL.jpg
2022-03-28T18:19:54 < zyp> aandrew, yeah, but that doesn't matter on a typical cortex-m :)
2022-03-28T18:19:57 < karlp> not really my understanding, wfe just allows a few different wakeup sources
2022-03-28T18:20:22 < zyp> yeah, the event stuff is the different wakeup sources
2022-03-28T18:20:24 < karlp> eh major diffference here isn't wfe vs wfi but SCB->DEEPSLEEP or whatever the bit is called.
2022-03-28T18:20:31 < zyp> and yes
2022-03-28T18:20:42 < aandrew> karlp: found this: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ka001283/latest
2022-03-28T18:20:55 < zyp> I guess on cortex-a they may enter different sleep modes, but I haven't seen that on cortex-m
2022-03-28T18:21:28 < karlp> that's actualyl a nice summary thanks aandrew, also explains why it's always been so vague in cortex-m docs :)
2022-03-28T18:21:38 < karlp> note that that's from the A5 docs :)
2022-03-28T18:23:42 < aandrew> yes, because the A series have the EVENTI/O signals IIRC
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2022-03-28T18:47:38 < aandrew> WFE really depends on implementation, you'd have to look at the specific MCU you're using has things wired up
2022-03-28T18:48:37 < aandrew> I mean WFI is implementation-dependent as well, but I think it's more universally implemented where NVIC/GIC can wake it up
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2022-03-28T19:15:27 < karlp> well, LETIEMR->PRS->IADC->LDMA gives mthe problems.
2022-03-28T19:15:34 < karlp> LETIMER->GPIO seems to be ok.
2022-03-28T19:15:42 < karlp> so let's just keep adding one step in the chain then :)
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2022-03-28T19:25:45 < karlp> lol, connected via bluetooth, timing good, average power 900uA, disconnect, average power 1300.
2022-03-28T19:25:57 < karlp> this is heaps of fun...
2022-03-28T19:28:56 < jpa-> after having this heaps of fun with bluetooth & wlan on several processors, i've begun to think that having a separate radio module with its own CPU isn't that wasteful and stupid after all
2022-03-28T19:30:38 < mawk> it's aggressively scanning maybe karlp 
2022-03-28T19:30:39 < mawk> when disconnected
2022-03-28T19:31:32 < jpa-> or aggressively sleeping and messing up something
2022-03-28T19:32:17 < karlp> well, I just found one thing that seems to help, where I was fucking with the rtc nvic priority as an experiment, but it was meant to be removed :|
2022-03-28T19:32:22 < karlp> anyway, out of time today.
2022-03-28T19:32:37 < aandrew> "aggressively sleeping" sounds hilarious
2022-03-28T19:32:55 < aandrew> FUCK YOU I'M SLEEPING SEE? <intentional and exaggerated snoring>
2022-03-28T19:33:05 < aandrew> sounds like something my kids would do when younger
2022-03-28T19:33:10 < mawk> lol
2022-03-28T19:33:51 < jpa-> that's also what i do after a few days of sleep deprivation
2022-03-28T19:34:10 < karlp> doesn't fix my real case though, so will continue there tomorrow
2022-03-28T19:45:24 < qyx> tomorrow?
2022-03-28T19:45:51 < mawk> tomorrow is saturday, have you lost track of time??
2022-03-28T19:46:24 < qyx> it is not end of the day yet
2022-03-28T19:47:07 < Steffanx> The workday just started..
2022-03-28T19:47:19 < mawk> exactly
2022-03-28T19:50:53 < aandrew> mawk: ...
2022-03-28T19:50:57 < aandrew> tomorrow is Saturday?
2022-03-28T19:51:05 < aandrew> did I step into a time warp and missed an entire week?
2022-03-28T19:52:28 < jpa-> aandrew: you did, and your boss is angry now
2022-03-28T19:55:03 < mawk> lol
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2022-03-28T19:57:32 < Steffanx> Yes I'm very angry, aandrew 
2022-03-28T19:58:23 < mawk> Steffanx is bossmann
2022-03-28T19:58:24 < mawk> exposed
2022-03-28T19:58:34 < Steffanx> Why you do that jpa-  ? The sleep deprivation? Worried about the tct?
2022-03-28T19:58:43 < mawk> what's with tct
2022-03-28T19:58:46 < mawk> is he homeless?
2022-03-28T19:58:59 < englishman> tct is many-homed
2022-03-28T19:58:59 < Steffanx> He's tct.
2022-03-28T19:59:15 < mawk> homeful
2022-03-28T19:59:25 < mawk> Steffanx: I'm playing the wii at 1080p with hd textures on my computorz
2022-03-28T19:59:40 < mawk> using a real wii remote connected with bluetooth; but also with a xbox controller of which I map certain buttons to simulate motion
2022-03-28T19:59:53 < mawk> like left trigger is mapped to simulate a 6Hz shake, for some games that require shaking
2022-03-28T20:00:04 < mawk> and for the games that require pointing at the screen you can use the mouse
2022-03-28T20:00:16 < mawk> try it
2022-03-28T20:00:24 < Steffanx> Nah
2022-03-28T20:00:32 < mawk> :(
2022-03-28T20:00:36 < mawk> try new super mario bros wii
2022-03-28T20:00:39 < Steffanx> My Wii is somewhere, but dont remember where 
2022-03-28T20:00:44 < mawk> I have one too
2022-03-28T20:00:53 < mawk> but I don't use it, the computer is higher quality
2022-03-28T20:01:07 < mawk> smoother in every aspect; and I can use savestates and cheats
2022-03-28T20:05:17 < jpa-> Steffanx: my sleep timer is clocked by the rising edge of the solar clock signal; it has fairly stable frequency but crazy amount of phase noise, so the jitter causes some timing violations in spring and autumn
2022-03-28T20:05:49 < mawk> that's to the magic of emulator I can play a 2009 game in HD at full speed; and it's not like zooming or upscaling, it's really rendering the game at higher resolution as it's kinda high level emulation
2022-03-28T20:07:47 < Steffanx> Isnt it dark enough in your bed room jpa-  ?
2022-03-28T20:08:15 < jpa-> apparently not
2022-03-28T20:08:32 < Steffanx> Time to have that fixed that
2022-03-28T20:09:36 < jpa-> hard to fix without stopping air flow also
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2022-03-28T20:10:09 < Steffanx> Hm
2022-03-28T20:12:23 < Steffanx> But Wii sports is no fun with a xbox controller mawk
2022-03-28T20:13:16 < Steffanx> The fun of a Wii is to play the silly games with other people in the living room 
2022-03-28T20:13:21 < aandrew> for me game technology peaked with MarioKart 64
2022-03-28T20:26:48 < mawk> yeah Steffanx you can use a wii controller with the emulatorz
2022-03-28T20:26:50 < mawk> that's what I do
2022-03-28T20:26:59 < mawk> I wanted to try the xbox one just for the feat
2022-03-28T20:34:30 < fenugrec> aandrew, agreed, modern games have nothing on MK 64
2022-03-28T20:35:34 < Steffanx> You two are just OOOOOLD fenugrec
2022-03-28T20:35:36 < fenugrec> I have this simple circuit that drives a "power ON" LED and starts blinking when batt voltage is below a threshold : https://ibb.co/1LQF31Q  can I make this any simpler / less parts / low power ? Just for the challenge, I'm just building one of these and performance is not critical
2022-03-28T20:35:52 < Steffanx> generation gap they call it, boomer.
2022-03-28T20:37:30 < fenugrec> Steffan, haha admit we make you feel old with your commodore64 I'm sure you have stashed somewhere
2022-03-28T20:38:13 < Steffanx> nope, no such thing here
2022-03-28T20:38:43 < fenugrec> what was "in" in .eu in the early 90s... amiga ?
2022-03-28T20:41:02 < Steffanx> im not sure. We just had some 286 or 386 to play prince of persia. 
2022-03-28T21:13:58 < qyx> this is exactly the reason why you dare not write a for loop without {}
2022-03-28T21:14:02 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/IqKV8
2022-03-28T21:14:20 < qyx> when do people finally learn it
2022-03-28T21:14:41 < aandrew> fenugrec: that's already pretty low part count
2022-03-28T21:14:47 < qyx> I added the printf() to both cycles, now spent 10 minutes investigating why the hell the first one doesn't execute
2022-03-28T21:26:33 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/mcOp4
2022-03-28T21:26:41 < qyx> so it is not that bad
2022-03-28T21:27:04 < qyx> now I only need a DDR pro to tell me which exact timing is misconfigured on byte lane 1
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2022-03-28T21:34:00 < fenugrec>  aandrew yea, I was hoping to eliminate R5 (and increase C1) but it would waste more power when blinking I think
2022-03-28T21:36:02 < fenugrec> I tried a TL431-based implementation but couldn't get it to oscillate
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2022-03-28T22:16:51 < Steffanx> How many of those are you going to make to care about 2 components fenugrec? :D
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2022-03-28T23:00:58 < Laurenceb> sup trolls
2022-03-28T23:01:18  * Laurenceb managed ot make simulink """work"" using global variables and externally linked c code
2022-03-28T23:01:22 < Laurenceb> nasty but it compiles
2022-03-28T23:01:46 < Laurenceb> c code blocks get nastily preprocessed so ever volatile is unusable
2022-03-28T23:01:51 < Laurenceb> *even
2022-03-28T23:02:15  * Laurenceb now has Lunix issues
2022-03-28T23:02:38 < zyp> congrats
2022-03-28T23:03:14 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/YzQ5y3PJ
2022-03-28T23:03:29 < Laurenceb> this runs fine... apart from if I set it to run at boot using crontab
2022-03-28T23:03:58 < Laurenceb> it looks like none of the random sources exist yet...
2022-03-28T23:06:56 < zyp> because you run it before udev created the devnodes?
2022-03-28T23:08:01 < Laurenceb> hmm
2022-03-28T23:08:44 < Laurenceb> script runs "@reboot"
2022-03-28T23:09:55 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe I could loop until it exists
2022-03-28T23:10:00 < Laurenceb> inb4 it hangs the system
2022-03-28T23:10:05 < Laurenceb> I'll add a timeout
2022-03-28T23:19:15 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/SW5RFcNQ
2022-03-28T23:20:13 < kakium69> is hypertrain moving faster than 3000m/h now?
2022-03-28T23:22:20 < kakium69> catphish: it's not time yet to https://zero-ev.co.uk/product/quaife-small-tesla-front-rear-drive-unit-limited-slip-diff-lsd/ ?
2022-03-28T23:23:07 < catphish> kakium69: nice
2022-03-28T23:23:48 < kakium69> for a cool price of 1300ukp
2022-03-28T23:24:02 < catphish> that seems sane, but more than i feel compelled to spend :)
2022-03-28T23:24:53 < kakium69> it's rather easy to replace diff later?
2022-03-28T23:25:24 < kakium69> can motor be dropped down or should it be lifted out?
2022-03-28T23:27:49 < catphish> the motor can be lifted or dropped, but the whole process is nontrivial removing the drive shafts is pretty destructive to the suspension ball joints, and to lift the motor out requires removing the batteries
2022-03-28T23:28:13 < catphish> i've never had LSD though, so doubt i'll miss it
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2022-03-28T23:34:00 < kakium69> at least in rwd sedans it's a must if you want to drift
2022-03-28T23:34:37 < catphish> the only part of that that applies to me is "rwd"
2022-03-28T23:34:55 < Steffanx> Yesterday i found out that doing what you are doing is pretty damn hard here in dutchland, catphish. Apperently get a EV conversion like that certified and one the road
2022-03-28T23:35:02 < kakium69> lower CG ofc
2022-03-28T23:35:22 < Steffanx> Especially when you do custom hardware/electronics. You'll have to do the EMC shit as well for the electronics etc.
2022-03-28T23:35:43 < kakium69> in funland you can build EV from salvaged parts now
2022-03-28T23:35:49 < kakium69> no need for EMC
2022-03-28T23:35:52 < Steffanx> im surprised UKland doesnt force you too.
2022-03-28T23:36:08 < Steffanx> Especially when you do your own battery balancer
2022-03-28T23:36:35 < Steffanx> Or is that no longer a thing?
2022-03-28T23:40:18 < kakium69> catphish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0By_q7mhJCA
2022-03-28T23:40:51 < kakium69> cannot break rear loose with power in constant rate turn
2022-03-28T23:48:07 < catphish> Steffanx: yeah DE is really strict on it
2022-03-28T23:49:06 < catphish> kakium69: that would seem to demonstrate that the open diff has better grip ;)
2022-03-28T23:49:49 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-28T23:49:52 < kakium69> sideways
2022-03-28T23:50:26 < kakium69> but in direction of traction - no
2022-03-28T23:50:49 < catphish> or maybe not, i'm actually not sure which of those setups is providing more traction in each direction
2022-03-28T23:51:10 < catphish> the LSD *should* be much better though
2022-03-28T23:51:31 < kakium69> it's harder to lose it in turn with open diff
2022-03-28T23:52:25 < kakium69> in corner*
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2022-03-28T23:52:45 < kakium69> I think
2022-03-28T23:53:23 < Steffanx> More like NL, catphish  :P
2022-03-28T23:53:38 < Steffanx> Dutchland aka the netherlands 
2022-03-28T23:54:03 < catphish> Steffanx: oh, dutchland
2022-03-28T23:54:15 < catphish> well i'd better hurry up before UK changes their mind
2022-03-28T23:59:31 < kakium69> catphish: https://youtu.be/cnW3FPDW4RE?t=67 Mx5 chasing another Mx5 with open diff. It doesn't have a chance
--- Day changed ti maalis 29 2022
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2022-03-29T00:05:27 < catphish> kakium69: it does seem like a good idea, if it was cheap i'd do it in an instant
2022-03-29T00:06:03 < kakium69> it could be more interesting to do it later
2022-03-29T00:06:05 < catphish> £1,540 though :'(
2022-03-29T00:06:27 < catphish> if and when the car is finished, working, and restored, i will do it
2022-03-29T00:06:45 < kakium69> when you get the car moving and find the limits with open diff
2022-03-29T00:07:06 < catphish> indeed
2022-03-29T00:07:11 < kakium69> then replace diff
2022-03-29T00:11:24 < fenugrec> Steffanx, I'm just building 1. It was just a puzzle/challenge. I can afford the extra 0.0001$ resistor
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2022-03-29T01:10:26  * Laurenceb is getting confused by Lunix
2022-03-29T01:10:34 < Laurenceb> ./code runs fine
2022-03-29T01:10:45 < Laurenceb> ./code in a bash script produces no output...
2022-03-29T01:11:02 < Laurenceb> same bash script worked fine last week...
2022-03-29T01:11:13 < Laurenceb> struggling to think what could case such behaviour
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2022-03-29T01:15:04 < Laurenceb> hmm I fear this is the intermittent 4kB buffering issue I've seen before on lunix7
2022-03-29T01:16:08 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/5KeQ1cs3
2022-03-29T01:16:49 < Laurenceb> nothing ever goes to the logfiles, yet it did a couple of days ago when I last tried this script
2022-03-29T01:17:20 < Laurenceb> lines 2,3,4 run fine without issue when run directly in the terminal
2022-03-29T01:17:27 < Laurenceb> no errors out from the script
2022-03-29T01:19:49 < Laurenceb> oh sheeeeeettttt
2022-03-29T01:19:52 < Laurenceb> ramfs has crashed
2022-03-29T01:20:00 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
2022-03-29T01:22:38 < Laurenceb> lunix: not quite as bad as simulink but its trying hard
2022-03-29T01:24:14 < Steffanx> Pebkac.
2022-03-29T01:25:39 < Laurenceb> tmpfs             191132  191132         0 100% /run/user/1000
2022-03-29T01:25:43 < Laurenceb> sheeett
2022-03-29T01:25:55 < Laurenceb> yet there is nothing in there
2022-03-29T01:27:18 < Laurenceb> oh sheet I see
2022-03-29T01:27:35 < Laurenceb> "In Unix deleted files still exist in the filesystem and take space in it until the application using them closes the files or this application is terminated."
2022-03-29T01:34:09 < zyp> well, duh
2022-03-29T01:35:00 < zyp> what other behavior would you prefer? refusing to delete a file because it's in use? applications randomly crashing because the file they were working on suddenly got pulled out from under them?
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2022-03-29T01:36:32 < Laurenceb> yeah I guess
2022-03-29T01:36:59 < Laurenceb> looks like pkill -P $$ does not work to kill subprocesses
2022-03-29T01:37:08 < zyp> both filenames and file handles are references to the actual file contents, and shit is using refcounting to keep the file contents from being deleted until all references are gone
2022-03-29T01:37:14 < mawk> why would it Laurenceb ?
2022-03-29T01:37:19 < mawk> subprocess isn't a linux thing
2022-03-29T01:37:27 < mawk> there are processes, and threads owned by a process
2022-03-29T01:37:35 < mawk> if you want to kill processes spawned by another process, you need to kill them yourself
2022-03-29T01:37:47 < mawk> and you need to know their name
2022-03-29T01:37:58 < mawk> if you want to have control over subprocesses spawned by a process, you can use control groups
2022-03-29T01:38:05 < mawk> then you get all the PIDs at once and can kill everyone
2022-03-29T01:38:26 < mawk> or if all the processes are in the same process group, you can kill the whole process group; but that depends on the target program
2022-03-29T01:38:34 < Xogium> mawk: that would be a pidocide
2022-03-29T01:38:39 < mawk> :(
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2022-03-29T01:39:25 < Laurenceb> mawk: ok I sort of see
2022-03-29T01:39:43 < mawk> if you run systemd making a control group for your process is very easy
2022-03-29T01:39:47 < mawk> basically you run the process with systemd-run
2022-03-29T01:39:55 < Laurenceb> so e.g. how do I kill this at a later date? sudo ./Laurence/UDP_packet_echo 1280 > $usrdir$main_port_fifo &
2022-03-29T01:40:18 < mawk> then you have a list of all pids automatically ready for you in /sys/fs/cgroup/proc/user/1000/yourslice/cgroup.procs
2022-03-29T01:40:19 < mawk> something like this
2022-03-29T01:40:26 < mawk> Laurenceb: store the PID 
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2022-03-29T01:40:35 < mawk> it's in variable $! iirc
2022-03-29T01:40:54 < mawk> just like return code is in $? after running a command, pid is in $! after doing a command &
2022-03-29T01:41:19 < mawk> if you want this to be killed when your bash script is (gracefully) killed, then set up an exit handler
2022-03-29T01:41:21 < Xogium> nice I didn't know about that one
2022-03-29T01:42:09 < mawk> function killstuff () { kill server_pid; }; trap killstuff EXIT 
2022-03-29T01:42:15 < mawk> then killstuff will be called when the script exits
2022-03-29T01:42:43 < mawk> and store the pid in variable server_pid after spawning the async command
2022-03-29T01:45:41 < Laurenceb> ah cool
2022-03-29T01:46:16 < Laurenceb> how can I store an array of pids if I have lots of commands that are spawned?
2022-03-29T01:51:33 < Laurenceb> oh you can have normal arrays in bash, nice
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2022-03-29T02:02:37 < karlp> I guarantee you'll end up with zombies and detached like that, but yeah, sure, that sort of thing generally is the idea
2022-03-29T02:02:42 < karlp> fucking train wreck though
2022-03-29T02:03:52 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah I see an issue
2022-03-29T02:04:11 < Laurenceb> { while true; do ./gps_get Config/serial_config.txt $cache_port 0.1 2> >(logprint) ; debugprint "GPS_get for serial name and number failed:$?" ; sleep 1 ; done } &
2022-03-29T02:04:17 < Laurenceb> pid for that is not so obvious
2022-03-29T02:04:38 < Laurenceb> maybe subprocesses will work there?
2022-03-29T02:05:01 < karlp> count up all the shell invocations ;)
2022-03-29T02:05:29 < karlp> when you're at this point in bash scripting, and goign "oh goodie, bash has arrays" I would highly recommend moving to a higher coordination language....
2022-03-29T02:05:48 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-03-29T02:06:19 < karlp> lua's os.execute and python's popen and subprocess can doa  lot, and make some this a lot saner, with really very little work...
2022-03-29T02:06:41 < karlp> even perl is better than trying to orchestrate massive chunks of bash like that.
2022-03-29T02:08:43 < catphish> Laurenceb: running something from a bash script with its stdout still going to the terminal should be the same as running it manually, but if its output is redirected, it will run buffered, unless the sender flushes its output it will remain in a buffer for as long as the kernel fancies, or until the program flushes or exits
2022-03-29T02:09:55 < catphish> afaik, writing to an IO but not flushing is telling the kernel that you want that data to be written, but you're not in a rush, and it's free to wait until you've filled a buffer
2022-03-29T02:10:24 < catphish> with interactive terminals, the behaviour seems to be to flush all writes immediately
2022-03-29T02:10:56 < catphish> Laurenceb: if it's your code, just flush()
2022-03-29T02:11:03 < catphish> after each datagram
2022-03-29T02:12:25 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-03-29T02:30:40 < Laurenceb> hmm I think I found something - group IDs
2022-03-29T02:30:54 < Laurenceb> sudo ps x -o "%p %r %c" | grep UDP_packet
2022-03-29T02:31:08 < Laurenceb> %r gives the same output for all the spawned stuff
2022-03-29T02:35:09 < Laurenceb> woah done it
2022-03-29T02:35:19 < Laurenceb> sudo kill -9 -$PGID
2022-03-29T02:35:50 < Laurenceb> but I have to store PGID for each upper level spawned thread
2022-03-29T02:48:21 < Laurenceb> but the - before the pid is needed
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2022-03-29T04:04:32 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA innovations
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2022-03-29T06:17:49 < machinehum> What the actual fucjk
2022-03-29T06:18:03 < machinehum> I can't find a drawing of this part anywhere 54548-2271
2022-03-29T06:18:08 < machinehum> It's a molex connector
2022-03-29T06:18:18 < machinehum> How the fuck am I supposed to put it on a board
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2022-03-29T09:21:00 < jpa-> machinehum: https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/545482271_sd.pdf
2022-03-29T09:21:22 -!- rob_w [~bob@host-82-135-31-73.customer.m-online.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-29T09:22:02 < jpa-> and 3D model https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/stp/54548-2271_stp.zip
2022-03-29T09:38:36 < emeb_mac> Norway... https://twitter.com/Valdevia_Art/status/1499095001149714436
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2022-03-29T10:06:14 < jpa-> people are peacefully worshipping their huge insect-lizard god and some stupid journalist comes and burns their church down
2022-03-29T10:39:59 < mawk> lol
2022-03-29T10:40:10 < mawk> it's just a giant butterfly no?
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2022-03-29T11:03:09 < benishor> lovely format
2022-03-29T11:03:29 < benishor> it looks like it involved a lot of sex too, by the will of the holy moth
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2022-03-29T11:29:18 < mawk> I have a maths problem
2022-03-29T11:29:21 < mawk> a real one, for work
2022-03-29T11:30:24 < jpa-> heat the math in a spoon until liquid, then inject
2022-03-29T11:30:31 < mawk> :(
2022-03-29T11:34:16 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has joined ##stm32
2022-03-29T11:36:43 < mawk> I am calibrating some probe thingie and I have data of the form y = f_t(x); y is apparent electrical conductivity (as measured by the probe), t is real electrical conductivity (I know how conductive is the water I use), x is the volumetric water content of the sample
2022-03-29T11:36:55 < mawk> each f_t(x) looks like a S curve a little bit
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2022-03-29T13:05:47 < karlp> well, if mawk is asking _us_ for maths help, everything's fucked :)
2022-03-29T13:06:21 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dyv9nyaXpw
2022-03-29T13:09:20 < Laurenceb> kek at youtube comments taking copypasta seriously
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2022-03-29T13:27:51 < mawk> I didn't pay attention in statistics class karlp 
2022-03-29T13:41:23 < qyx> me neither, I got FX on first try
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2022-03-29T13:48:16 < karlp> aandrew: so what hub IC were you using?
2022-03-29T13:51:34 < karlp> winchiphead with more crazy shit: ch568: 1x usb-hs (w/phy), _4_ sdio, plus _sata_ along with a riscv core, 192K flash and 32K ram.
2022-03-29T13:51:42 < karlp> I mean, wtf are you building with that?!
2022-03-29T13:52:02 < karlp> I mean, cheap card reader dongles I guess, but having to put your own programming on it?!
2022-03-29T13:52:35 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nGxhw.png
2022-03-29T13:53:33 < qyx> usb-a on the client side?
2022-03-29T13:53:36 < qyx> fuckthem
2022-03-29T13:54:25 < karlp> no, it's host/device
2022-03-29T13:54:50 < karlp> I mean, usb-c or micro-ab would be "correct-er"
2022-03-29T13:54:57 < qyx> hm, is it QFP how-many?
2022-03-29T13:55:05 < karlp> qfp48
2022-03-29T13:55:06 < qyx> 48?
2022-03-29T13:55:24 < qyx> each SD needs 6
2022-03-29T13:55:30 < qyx> is there even enough pins for that?
2022-03-29T13:55:34  * karlp shrugs
2022-03-29T13:55:40 < karlp> probably overlapping data lines?
2022-03-29T13:55:48 < karlp> sdio has multiplexing built in doesn't it?
2022-03-29T13:55:51 < qyx> that would be cheating
2022-03-29T13:55:54 < qyx> it does
2022-03-29T13:56:01 < qyx> you can connect them all in parallel
2022-03-29T13:56:09 < qyx> but then you can say hey I support 16
2022-03-29T13:56:12 < karlp> ch563 has usb2-hs (w/phy) plus 10/100 eth (w/phy)
2022-03-29T13:56:31 < karlp> hrm, no, I think some of the stuff you need a few pins for each, and you need host supprot for the multiplexing iirc?
2022-03-29T13:57:04 < qyx> now that your volcano almost stopped exploding, are you searching for new adventures?
2022-03-29T13:57:06 < karlp> these are likie purpose built for certain types of peripherals
2022-03-29T13:57:15 < karlp> in what way?
2022-03-29T13:57:22 < qyx> those ch*
2022-03-29T13:57:31 < karlp> I'm really just procrastinating a little bit before getting back to efr timer shits
2022-03-29T13:57:39 < karlp> nah, I've been curious about some of their parts for years,
2022-03-29T13:57:41 < qyx> oh I know that
2022-03-29T13:58:03 < karlp> and have a couple of ch* boards that actually do seem interesting to me, 
2022-03-29T13:58:07 < karlp> but yeah, kinda just a toy
2022-03-29T13:58:14 < karlp> I should finish existing projects, but hah, 
2022-03-29T13:58:22  * qyx is drawing a esp32-c3 board
2022-03-29T13:58:33 < karlp> currently saw an odd part number and skimming the product selection guide from wch
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2022-03-29T14:00:09 < karlp> so they have cortex-m, e8051, "riscv" and then also 8bit "risc"
2022-03-29T14:00:20 < karlp> I wonder if that's just shitty docs and it's 8051 as well?
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2022-03-29T14:31:28 < mawk> thank god it was just a bad dream: https://i.redd.it/xumtyg409aq81.jpg
2022-03-29T14:31:33 < mawk> bye bye catphish
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2022-03-29T14:50:31 < qyx> I have a riddle for you https://bin.jvnv.net/file/52QKT/Screenshot_2022-03-29_13-50-07.png
2022-03-29T14:53:30 < qyx> why is the circuit drawn such retarded?
2022-03-29T14:53:51 < qyx> usually it should be like this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p78l7/Screenshot_2022-03-29_13-53-04.png
2022-03-29T14:55:05 < qyx> in the original circuit, shorting the mosfet causes increasing inductor current which in turn causes voltage on the Rhys resistor to go down
2022-03-29T14:55:32 < qyx> (compared to the circuit GND which is "floating" above the input GND)
2022-03-29T14:56:16 < qyx> if I modify it like in the second picture, Rhys voltage will increase with increasing current
2022-03-29T14:58:19 < mawk> why do you say circuit ground
2022-03-29T14:58:25 < mawk> there's only one real ground in first image
2022-03-29T14:59:18 < mawk> ah no I missed Rset
2022-03-29T14:59:38 < qyx> yeah so CS input is negative
2022-03-29T15:00:28 < qyx> it is not important at all in the described use case, but I want to control the switcher with a MCU
2022-03-29T15:01:29 < qyx> and this topology would cause common mode interference on its communication lines which are referenced to the input ground
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2022-03-29T15:26:27 < qyx> even maxim is out of stock now
2022-03-29T15:26:32 < qyx> because of adi
2022-03-29T15:44:40 < karlp> this is pretty rad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA
2022-03-29T15:45:56 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-29T16:03:09 < qyx> you stole me 15 minutes of time karlp 
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2022-03-29T16:05:29 < karlp> not i, no sir.
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2022-03-29T16:28:47 < englishman> very nice.
2022-03-29T16:37:16 < aandrew> karlp> aandrew: so what hub IC were you using?
2022-03-29T16:37:17 < aandrew> hm?
2022-03-29T16:45:22 < karlp> you said on twitter you fucked up with a hub, deliberately swapped dm/dp, as you thought they were swappable?
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2022-03-29T17:04:28 < aandrew> karlp: oh, probably USB2514
2022-03-29T17:04:55 < karlp> but that does support lane swapping? (unless you left out the eeprom to configure those bits?)
2022-03-29T17:05:09 < aandrew> USB2514 does not support +/- swapping
2022-03-29T17:05:11 < karlp> I mean, you've already long fixed this, so n big deal..
2022-03-29T17:05:21 < karlp> usb2517 does, which is usb2514 plus more ports?
2022-03-29T17:05:37  * karlp goes and double checks
2022-03-29T17:05:43 < aandrew> they could have modified it, I know the 2514B which is 2514+DCP does not
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2022-03-29T17:06:26 < karlp> it's listed on the features... https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/USB2514B "PortSwap - Programmable USB differential-pair pin locations ease PCB design by aligning USB signal lines directly to connectors"
2022-03-29T17:07:11 < aandrew> hm, maybe wasn't that IC then? now I'm confused because I just put another 2514(B) in a design and while I didn't need to swap +/- I thought it did not have that ability
2022-03-29T17:07:50 < aandrew> hm, it does clearly show register 0xfa for port swap
2022-03-29T17:07:55 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dUeRC.png
2022-03-29T17:08:02  * karlp lols.
2022-03-29T17:08:03 < aandrew> now I kind of want to go back and look at that design
2022-03-29T17:08:07  * karlp too :)
2022-03-29T17:08:09 < aandrew> it was an old gumstix design
2022-03-29T17:08:16 < aandrew> fuck I hated that thing
2022-03-29T17:08:17 < karlp> you might hve just not had the eeprom available
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2022-03-29T17:20:30 < aandrew> this was quite a way back, the USB2514 was still an SMSC part then IIRC
2022-03-29T17:20:37 < aandrew> when I'm back home I'll pull up that design
2022-03-29T17:33:17 < bitmask> how much phosphor do you need to use
2022-03-29T17:36:57 < Laurenceb> holy shit the current consumption of that hub ic
2022-03-29T17:37:04 < Laurenceb> might as well use ethernet at that point
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2022-03-29T17:38:09 < karlp> this is pretty neat: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/RQ9Jl.png  adc sampling at 100hz, batching 10 samples and every batch toggling the led.  seeing the little ticks as it wakes up to DMA during each batch is pretty neat.
2022-03-29T17:38:47 < BrainDamage> nice unicoding
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2022-03-29T17:41:27 < karlp> oh y eah, love that :)
2022-03-29T17:41:52 < karlp> super impressed, but such is life in simplicity land...
2022-03-29T17:41:57 < karlp> It's simple, I don't fix it...
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2022-03-29T18:10:00 < karlp> ok, cute, my single channel adc tests give consistent timing, it's ony multi channel that's fucked. ok. I can fix this :)
2022-03-29T18:10:39 < qyx> does it feel ok when things just work?
2022-03-29T18:15:10 < karlp> it's not ok yet.
2022-03-29T18:15:22 < karlp> I still can't imagine why scan adc mode would destroy things based on debug or not.
2022-03-29T18:15:35 < karlp> but at least I've got more good data points and I must be getting closer right?
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2022-03-29T20:56:43 < qyx> yeah sounds like me hunting every single bit on that LPDDR3
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2022-03-29T23:10:38 < fenugrec> Best paper... a 741 wired to activate a fan , https://www.ijirmet.com/vol1/issue4/6.pdf
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2022-03-29T23:28:13 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-03-29T23:30:27 < qyx> not sure if trolling or serious
2022-03-29T23:30:38 < fenugrec> it's a fine line
2022-03-29T23:31:09 < qyx> I though the paper is from 2016 and not 1996
2022-03-29T23:32:25 < fenugrec> Their bibliography is impressive
2022-03-29T23:34:13 < qyx> wait what, noice
2022-03-29T23:34:33 < qyx> the conclusions chapter
2022-03-29T23:35:29 < fenugrec> Why yes. Throwing in a "babby's first 741 circuit" was a gamechanger for that gas leakage monitoring system
2022-03-29T23:35:38 < mawk> why is this a paper
2022-03-29T23:35:45 < mawk> wtf
2022-03-29T23:36:04 < mawk> Thermistor is very sensitive device. If thermistor is damage effect whole circuit
2022-03-29T23:36:07 < mawk> ooga booga
2022-03-29T23:36:30 < fenugrec> haha look at paragraph 2.1.5 Reference voltage
2022-03-29T23:36:38 < fenugrec> I think they copypasta'd the wrong website
2022-03-29T23:36:56 < qyx> that too
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2022-03-29T23:38:20 < fenugrec> it's probably a joke. Other papers from ijirmet look more or less convincing
2022-03-29T23:38:40 < qyx> RADIO FREQUENCY IDENTIFICATION BASED SMART SECURITY SYSTEM FOR MONITORING THE
2022-03-29T23:46:15 < kakium69> evenings
2022-03-29T23:46:41 < kakium69> how is ddr3 life?
2022-03-29T23:48:32 < qyx> dwelling in a box
--- Day changed ke maalis 30 2022
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2022-03-30T00:07:47 < karlp> in the box of shame.
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2022-03-30T01:02:57 < kakium69> qyx: your mainboard in scrap goes?
2022-03-30T01:04:27 < qyx> halfway there
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2022-03-30T01:05:55 < kakium69> you keep hope alive?
2022-03-30T01:08:16 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYWgyfZDp-k The Crystal Method - Keep Hope Alive
2022-03-30T01:08:45 < qyx> yeah I'll redo the routing and try again, but not now
2022-03-30T01:09:46 < kakium69> is it your first time ddr3?
2022-03-30T01:11:21 < qyx> yep
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2022-03-30T01:11:45 < kakium69> I'm way far from doing boards with ddr
2022-03-30T01:11:50 < qyx> the routing is okish according to various resources
2022-03-30T01:11:57 < qyx> byte lanes matched to within 0.1 mm
2022-03-30T01:12:09 < kakium69> lenght?
2022-03-30T01:12:11 < qyx> byte 0 is 16 mm, byte 1 is 18 mm, CA/clock is 30 mm
2022-03-30T01:12:29 < kakium69> ouch?
2022-03-30T01:12:39 < qyx> but the difference between any byte lane and CA must be 0-14 mm
2022-03-30T01:12:51 < qyx> so the 16 mm byte lane is marginal
2022-03-30T01:12:57 < qyx> and this is the one not working properly
2022-03-30T01:13:40 < qyx> I cannot shorten CA, because the pinout is mirrored, so I need to lenghten byte lanes a bit
2022-03-30T01:13:44 < qyx> at least to 25 mm
2022-03-30T01:14:01 < kakium69> layout pics?
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2022-03-30T01:14:46 < qyx> the whole story https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00001SMYE4SAP/cannot-access-lpddr3-memory-from-a-stm32mp153aabxx
2022-03-30T01:17:27 < kakium69> there is suspisious lack of snake snaking between the chips
2022-03-30T01:18:35 < qyx> there is enough snaking
2022-03-30T01:18:50 < qyx> but not enough it seems
2022-03-30T01:19:41 < kakium69> if you do it to 0 tolerances there is a lot of snake snaking
2022-03-30T01:19:57 < qyx> yeah but you are not required to
2022-03-30T01:20:03 < kakium69> yes
2022-03-30T01:20:06 < qyx> that's the point of byte lane strobe signals
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2022-03-30T01:34:00 < Laurenceb> >command substitution ignored null byte in output
2022-03-30T01:34:04 < Laurenceb> Lunix intensifies
2022-03-30T01:35:08 < specing> Laurenceb: Lunix programs intensify  https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/WBbWNWdZ/MEQt7VdP.jpg
2022-03-30T01:35:28 < Laurenceb> lmaoooooo
2022-03-30T01:37:25 < Laurenceb> maindata=$( dd bs=1 iflag=nonblock if=$usrdir$main_port_fifo 2>/dev/null )
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2022-03-30T01:47:25 < Laurenceb>  | tr -d '\0'
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2022-03-30T01:58:01 < catphish> morning
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2022-03-30T02:15:00 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru9ZKqoLr_o
2022-03-30T02:15:38 < Laurenceb> He didn't look out for red flags: words like ‘triggered’, ‘cucked’, ‘based’, ‘normies’, ‘Chads’, ‘foid’, ‘redpill’ or ‘blackpilled’
2022-03-30T02:41:19 < Laurenceb> hmm bash is being weird again
2022-03-30T02:41:23 < Laurenceb> pids[1]=$(ps --ppid $! -o pid= )
2022-03-30T02:41:41 < Laurenceb> comes out blank, but I can see the sub process running...
2022-03-30T02:44:42 < Laurenceb> oh you have to wait for the kernel to swing into action before it will exist
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2022-03-30T02:55:06 < mawk> what are you doing now Laurenceb 
2022-03-30T02:55:12 < mawk> arey ou not listening to what I told you
2022-03-30T02:55:17 < mawk> and why are you still doing awful things in bash
2022-03-30T02:55:19 < mawk> you give up
2022-03-30T02:55:24 < mawk> do it in python
2022-03-30T02:55:38 < mawk> once it gets complex enough there's no point staying in bash
2022-03-30T02:55:42 < mawk> it will be totally unmaintainable
2022-03-30T02:57:09 < Laurenceb> its only 1k lines
2022-03-30T03:00:50 < kakium6975> continue
2022-03-30T03:00:51 < BrainDamage> laurenceb gets off doing dirty hacks
2022-03-30T03:01:06 < BrainDamage> even if a proper way exists, he derives a sick pleasure from doing it wrong
2022-03-30T03:02:26 < kakium6975> is it wrong though?
2022-03-30T03:02:49 < mawk> [00:37:25] <Laurenceb> maindata=$( dd bs=1 iflag=nonblock if=$usrdir$main_port_fifo 2>/dev/null )
2022-03-30T03:02:52 < mawk> what is this command
2022-03-30T03:02:58 < mawk> what are you trying to do
2022-03-30T03:03:05 < mawk> read 1 byte?
2022-03-30T03:03:07 < mawk> you forgot count=1
2022-03-30T03:03:19 < mawk> bs=1 doesn't mean much without a count; with these arguments you actually read 512 bytes
2022-03-30T03:03:35 < mawk> hm no nevermind
2022-03-30T03:04:10 < kakium6975> what is 2> ?
2022-03-30T03:04:15 < mawk> redirect stder
2022-03-30T03:04:22 < kakium6975> ah
2022-03-30T03:04:25 < mawk> 2>/dev/null redirects stderr to /dev/null
2022-03-30T03:04:33 < mawk> to disable error/debug messages
2022-03-30T03:04:35 < kakium6975> yes
2022-03-30T03:04:50 < mawk> >/dev/null is to redirect stdout, and &>/dev/null is to redirect both at once
2022-03-30T03:05:03 < mawk> you can also do >/dev/null 2>&1 for the latter
2022-03-30T03:05:12 < mawk> &> is only in bash, but 2>&1 is also in sh
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2022-03-30T08:02:03 < SR-71> Hello everyone, I just got my first blue pill. Can someone please recommend good learning resources. 
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2022-03-30T10:23:40 < josuah> SR-71: how do you want to learn?
2022-03-30T10:23:58 < josuah> one way is using SDKs and libraries in order to avoid reinventing the wheel
2022-03-30T10:24:40 < josuah> one way is reading the datasheet to deduce how to write a linker script and init code, then try blinking something
2022-03-30T10:25:28 < josuah> none seems easier/harder to me, the challenge is different either way
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2022-03-30T10:35:25 < ventYl> latter isn't *that* hard
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2022-03-30T10:46:30 < mawk> SR-71: take it 30 minutes before the action with a glass of water
2022-03-30T10:50:21 < josuah> hmm... blue pill, is that one not having a small hardware bug?
2022-03-30T10:51:33 < mawk> for usb yeah
2022-03-30T10:51:37 < mawk> the pullups aren't right
2022-03-30T10:51:42 < mawk> but it's fine on most computers
2022-03-30T10:52:00 < qyx> why do people insist on bying bluepills
2022-03-30T10:52:09 < qyx> it should be dead
2022-03-30T10:52:16 < ventYl> teh kids aren't allright
2022-03-30T10:52:24 < ventYl> why?
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2022-03-30T12:48:34 < karlp> lolduino people keep going "look, it runs arduino with this ganked forked eclipse plugin, and it only cost 0.50 five years ago, so even though it's all janky now, you should keep doing it so you can join the lol cool arm club hohorofl"
2022-03-30T12:48:57 < karlp> I have no fucking clue why people buy this shitty f1 boards.
2022-03-30T12:51:35 < benishor> what board is that? link?
2022-03-30T12:52:12 < benishor> I like bluepills. they were/are cheap and served well enough for certain smallish projects
2022-03-30T12:52:50 < benishor> I used them for a cw keyer, voltage reference controller
2022-03-30T12:53:21 < benishor> though lately I switched to blackpill because it has I2S
2022-03-30T12:57:01 < mawk> you can buy nucleo-32 boards from st
2022-03-30T12:57:15 < mawk> same size, and it has a stlink
2022-03-30T12:57:26 < karlp> but omg, they're like $9 instead of $3
2022-03-30T12:57:26 < benishor> but the price
2022-03-30T12:57:30 < benishor> 3 vs 1
2022-03-30T12:57:36 < karlp> how many are you fucking building?1 100?
2022-03-30T12:57:39 < karlp> are you even building 10?!
2022-03-30T12:58:03 < benishor> nope
2022-03-30T12:58:13 < benishor> but if others want to duplicate your design, it matters
2022-03-30T12:58:20 < karlp> at least you managed to properly choose the f4 baord instead of "hurhur, h3lp me fix this bit banging i2s for f1 plz"
2022-03-30T12:58:37 < benishor> karlp: yeah, I considered bitbanging but just let it go
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2022-03-30T16:13:21 < fenugrec> karl is triggered by F1 again ?
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2022-03-30T16:21:41 < catphish> i'm starting an F1 project soon ;)
2022-03-30T16:22:28 < fenugrec> why
2022-03-30T16:22:50 < fenugrec> oh probably a gd32f1 eh, not like you can buy any stm32*
2022-03-30T16:24:20 < catphish> fenugrec: actually because i have an existing board with an F103 and i want to write a new firmware for it
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2022-03-30T16:33:35 < catphish> fenugrec: actually because i have an existing board with an F103 and i want to write a new firmware for it
2022-03-30T16:33:41 < catphish> oops
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2022-03-30T19:51:09 < catphish> fun example of what happens if an inverter drives a motor at less voltage that the motor's back EMF (but from a higher voltage source) https://tinyurl.com/ybheqvwb
2022-03-30T19:52:05 < catphish> in this case, a 100V supply, motor back EMF of 50V, 50% duty cycle gives a "virtual" supply voltage of +20V and hence current flows from the 50V motor to the 100V supply
2022-03-30T19:53:02 < jpa-> it gets even more fun when you try to account for induction motor slip; because there is no inherent magnetic field in the rotor, the backemf is not linearly dependent on rotor speed
2022-03-30T19:53:05 < catphish> it's black magic, and kind of a fun coming together of things that means this "just works" without any special care needing to be taken to make it work in reverse
2022-03-30T19:53:30 < catphish> i would say the back EMF was linearly dependent on rotor speed
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2022-03-30T19:53:59 < catphish> however, i do not understand slip when generating, so i may well be missing something
2022-03-30T19:54:00 < jpa-> for permanent magnet motors it is; for induction motors it is just complex and confusing
2022-03-30T19:54:09 < catphish> yeah, i'm trying to understand this now
2022-03-30T19:54:38 < catphish> most importantly, if i want to recover energy from the motor back to my battery, what frequency should i run the inverter at?
2022-03-30T19:54:58 < jpa-> a smart driver can decide the slip to a certain extent; a simplistic driver will just get some amount, and easily lose sync and thus stop generating
2022-03-30T19:55:05 < catphish> intuition tells me the slip should be negative
2022-03-30T19:55:10 < catphish> but i just can't understand why
2022-03-30T19:57:26 < jpa-> for a similar reason as the stator coil current in your backemf generator above is flowing in opposite direction
2022-03-30T19:57:41 < jpa-> if you reverse stator & rotor currents, maybe everything stays kind-of same
2022-03-30T19:58:03 < jpa-> but i'm always confused when thinking about induction motor slip
2022-03-30T19:58:32 < catphish> so if the motor is spinning at 50Hz at a voltage of 200V, i know pretty well that to apply a positive torque, i should apply a proportionally higher voltage and current, for example 55Hz, 220V, simples
2022-03-30T19:59:27 < catphish> positive is pretty simple, you apply the slip according to the torque you want (generally 0-5Hz), then apply a proportional (ish) voltage per Hz
2022-03-30T20:00:14 < jpa-> just increasing frequency, or increasing voltage will increase the speed also; it is just that if you want to keep slip in certain range for some reason, you keep certain ratio between the frequency and voltage
2022-03-30T20:01:05 < jpa-> what's often left out is *why* you want to keep slip at particular value - probably to do with efficiency, but the optimal slip depends on load also
2022-03-30T20:01:15 < catphish> my understanding is that for every value of torque you want to achieve, and every current RPM, then is a 100% optimal value for sip and voltage
2022-03-30T20:01:33 < catphish> it's my opinion that keeping slip at a constant value is totally nonsense
2022-03-30T20:02:33 < catphish> i believe voltage and slip should always be altered together to keep the slip angle as close to 90 degrees as possible
2022-03-30T20:03:14 < catphish> this means for more torque, you need more slip, and for more slip, you need more voltage
2022-03-30T20:03:29 < catphish> however i've yet to find anyone else who really fully understands to confirm this
2022-03-30T20:03:51 < jpa-> simplistic voltage & frequency drivers do not know much about torque
2022-03-30T20:04:14 < jpa-> and vector control drivers do not care about voltage & frequency as values, instead controlling phase angle & coil current
2022-03-30T20:04:21 < catphish> no, the simplest VFD will just output a fixed voltage and frequency, slip then varies with load
2022-03-30T20:04:29 < jpa-> yeah
2022-03-30T20:04:47 < catphish> controlling slip angle (keeping it at 90 degrees) is the optimal solution
2022-03-30T20:04:51 < catphish> but this is HARD
2022-03-30T20:05:13 < catphish> my feeling is that it's possible to calculate though,
2022-03-30T20:06:11 < catphish> by knowing the rotational speed and desired slip, it should be possible to calculate the voltage that gives that 90 degree angle
2022-03-30T20:06:52 < jpa-> there are some controllers that do not have rotor angle sensing, but sense the current and use that to determine the torque, and use that to alter the values somehow - but they are usually only for big industrial motors with fairly constant loads
2022-03-30T20:07:38 < catphish> yeah, this is "sensorless field oriented control"
2022-03-30T20:07:48 < jpa-> no
2022-03-30T20:07:53 < catphish> no?
2022-03-30T20:08:01 < jpa-> that still senses rotor angle, just does it from coil currents
2022-03-30T20:08:17 < jpa-> but there are simpler ones that just sense the current but do not try to determine rotor angle in real time
2022-03-30T20:09:48 < catphish> one simple approach (that i have successfully) implemented is just to know how much current you want, and adjust voltage until you see that current
2022-03-30T20:10:21 < catphish> ie if you know your desired torque should draw 100A, you just raise the voltage until you hit 100A
2022-03-30T20:10:34 < catphish> this works surprisingly well
2022-03-30T20:11:14 < jpa-> yeah, i drive my ebike bldc motor that way
2022-03-30T20:11:47 < catphish> since torque, slip, and current should all be proportional, i just set the slip proportional to the desired torque, then error-correct the voltage
2022-03-30T20:12:53 < catphish> i also added some arbitrary amount of "magnetizing current" which i'm not really sure about
2022-03-30T20:13:07 < jpa-> annoying thing about keeping rotor vs. magnetic field angle at 90° is that if you get a sudden load increase, the torque of the motor decreases and it can lose sync if the control does not react fast
2022-03-30T20:13:43 < catphish> my controller reacted *instantly*
2022-03-30T20:14:13 < catphish> oh, actually, voltage (being error corrected) didn't
2022-03-30T20:15:17 < jpa-> how does it react instantly? surely it takes some time to measure and control
2022-03-30T20:15:28 < catphish> well, not really
2022-03-30T20:15:51 < catphish> firstly, bear in mind that you can't "lose sync" in an induction motor unless your control really really sucks
2022-03-30T20:16:31 < catphish> because it's not synchronous to begin with
2022-03-30T20:16:34 < jpa-> true, it is not as radical as in BLDC, but the torque can plunge and if there is not a lot of rotor inertia, the motor can stall
2022-03-30T20:16:47 < jpa-> hmm
2022-03-30T20:16:56 < jpa-> but yeah, you are correct, it is kind of self-limiting
2022-03-30T20:17:44 < catphish> my code used a stm32 hardware counter connected to a rotary encoder, every PWM cycle, it advanced the sine wave by the amount of counted pulses
2022-03-30T20:18:02 < catphish> so the most it could get "out of sync" was one 10khz pwm cyce
2022-03-30T20:18:16 < jpa-> heh, sensored induction motor, haven't seen that before :)
2022-03-30T20:19:21 < catphish> so each PWM cycle, i advance the sine wave by the number of measured pulses, but an extra amount (the desired slip)
2022-03-30T20:19:47 < catphish> this means even if the motor stopped dead within 0.1ms, my output would reduce by the same amount
2022-03-30T20:20:31 < jpa-> sounds like if the rotor stopped, you would dump DC current to the coils
2022-03-30T20:20:34 < catphish> sensored induction is pretty common where you want torque control and fast response to load changes, at least this is also how tesla's inverter works
2022-03-30T20:20:52 < jpa-> (DC plus slip, actually)
2022-03-30T20:20:57 < catphish> jpa-: if the rotor stopped *and* the commanded torque was zero, yes
2022-03-30T20:21:14 < jpa-> yeah, sensored makes things a lot easier
2022-03-30T20:21:16 < catphish> but because of V/Hz, it would be 0V DC
2022-03-30T20:21:39 < catphish> which is exactly what you want in that scenario
2022-03-30T20:22:21 < catphish> if you were commanding 5Hz of slip (the max i use) and the motor stopped instantly, the output would be 5Hz, and 5% voltage
2022-03-30T20:22:31 < catphish> this is the code i'm talking about by the way https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/main.c
2022-03-30T20:23:29 < catphish> but most notably... https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/main.c#L48..L54
2022-03-30T20:23:54 < jpa-> looks nice and simple
2022-03-30T20:24:19 < catphish> the rest of it is an error-correction scheme designed to match the desired current, but i will likely dump that in favour of a fixed V/Hz so it reacts faster
2022-03-30T20:25:56 < catphish> i set up a chain of interrupts so that each PWM cycle triggers the ADC to run, and when the ADC finishes, it sets the next PWM value
2022-03-30T20:26:32 < catphish> however, if i use linear V/Hz, i can simplify things a lot
2022-03-30T20:27:05 < catphish> anyway, i haven't looked at this for nearly 4 years, but my intention is now to port this code to my tesla drve unit
2022-03-30T20:27:24 < catphish> because i'm dissatisfied with the complexity of the existing open source firmware
2022-03-30T20:28:11 < jpa-> my ebike story is quite much the same; VESC code worked well but is undecipherable mess so i rewrote my own that works worse :D
2022-03-30T20:41:54 < catphish> ideal
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2022-03-30T20:45:35 < kakium69> hello evenings
2022-03-30T20:45:38 < catphish> https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-sec-agreement-eminem-quote-2022-3
2022-03-30T20:45:42 < catphish> i rather enjoyed this
2022-03-30T20:45:47 < catphish> evening kakium69
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2022-03-30T21:00:37 < kakium69> shopping day
2022-03-30T21:00:49 < kakium69> went to shops in big town
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2022-03-30T21:08:00 < catphish> ooo fancy
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2022-03-30T22:29:27 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJBDXjI5Zu4 exotic round displays
2022-03-30T22:37:25 < kakium69> invite dongs
2022-03-30T22:42:13 < catphish> nice
2022-03-30T22:44:24 < catphish> remind me, what are the current options for stm32 libraries and environments?
2022-03-30T22:45:08 < catphish> in the past i've always shunned libraries and just used the ST header files, and gcc with a custom compile script
2022-03-30T22:45:21 < Steffanx> nothing changes
2022-03-30T22:45:22 < Steffanx> d
2022-03-30T22:45:32 < kakium69> you can always cube
2022-03-30T22:45:56 < catphish> i didn't hate cubeide, but always ended up going back to bare gcc
2022-03-30T22:45:58 < Steffanx> libopencm3, the cube hal, the cube LL, basic laks, whatever old stuff
2022-03-30T22:46:25 < catphish> i should probably learn how to use makefiles properly though, instead of a gcc bash script
2022-03-30T22:47:19 < catphish> this is how i compiled before https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/make.sh
2022-03-30T22:47:29 < BrainDamage> despite the title, this really cleared up make for me https://www.cse.iitd.ac.in/~sbansal/csp301/auug97.pdf
2022-03-30T22:47:40 < catphish> it was always effective, but felt like "not what a same person would do"
2022-03-30T22:49:05 < Steffanx> its almost a basic makefile ;)
2022-03-30T22:50:48 < kakium69> laks is the bestests
2022-03-30T22:51:09 < Steffanx> Ass kisser kakium69 :P
2022-03-30T22:51:22 < kakium69> ofc it is the bestest
2022-03-30T22:52:00 < catphish> does it support the latest chips like F103 though?
2022-03-30T22:53:56 < kakium69> most likelly
2022-03-30T22:54:30 < kakium69> it's c++ though
2022-03-30T22:54:35 < zyp> supports vf103 even
2022-03-30T22:55:19 < catphish> i'll probably remind myself how to do my bare metal method
2022-03-30T22:56:16 < kakium69> can you c++?
2022-03-30T22:56:54 < catphish> not really
2022-03-30T22:57:38 < kakium69> catphish
2022-03-30T22:57:42 < zyp> karlp have been putting in some nice work in expanding the device support recently
2022-03-30T22:58:45 < zyp> and when I find time for it I'm gonna attempt adding usb3 support to the laks usb stack
2022-03-30T22:59:21 < kakium69> is laks only c++ hal for stm32?
2022-03-30T22:59:25 < kakium69> the only
2022-03-30T22:59:34 < zyp> unlikely
2022-03-30T23:00:27 < kakium69> what are the options?
2022-03-30T23:00:59 < zyp> no idea
2022-03-30T23:01:27 < PaulFertser> stm32plus
2022-03-30T23:02:38 < kakium69> maybe it's the only c++20 hal
2022-03-30T23:02:41 < kakium69> ?
2022-03-30T23:03:18 < kakium69> zyp: laks has pretty bad visibility in google
2022-03-30T23:03:27 < kakium69> also does it even have a home page?
2022-03-30T23:07:33 < zyp> nope
2022-03-30T23:08:03 < kakium69> is it c++20?
2022-03-30T23:08:21 < zyp> as of v2, yes
2022-03-30T23:08:31 < zyp> v1 only requires c++11
2022-03-30T23:10:09 < zyp> visibility have never been a priority, I've mainly developed laks with me as the primary target audience :)
2022-03-30T23:10:36 < kakium69> world needs to know about laks
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2022-03-30T23:12:56 < zyp> nah, it's not really mature enough that I would recommend it if you don't know what you're doing, and I don't want to hand hold anybody through figuring it out
2022-03-30T23:13:50 < cristian_c> hi
2022-03-30T23:15:27 < kakium69> evenings
2022-03-30T23:16:40 < cristian_c> I've got some issues by testing stm8s103f3p6 with stlinkv2
2022-03-30T23:17:15 < zyp> how many? one or four?
2022-03-30T23:21:28 < cristian_c> zyp: I'd like to know if the board works properly
2022-03-30T23:21:46 < cristian_c> until now, I failed trying to flash blinky.ihx
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2022-03-30T23:39:07 < cristian_c> I always get an eror using stm8flash or some other tools as stvp
2022-03-30T23:39:31 < cristian_c> but I don't know how to check whatmg9es wr9ng
2022-03-30T23:39:35 < cristian_c> Ahy 8deas?
2022-03-30T23:39:40 < cristian_c> *ideas
2022-03-30T23:39:48 < cristian_c> ^Any ideas?
2022-03-30T23:44:17 < ventYl> nobody except automotive uses stm8 these days
2022-03-30T23:50:42 < cristian_c> Ii understand
2022-03-30T23:51:03 < cristian_c> butnit's the only hat uses swim connection, unlike stm32 (swd)
2022-03-30T23:51:14 < cristian_c> *that uses
2022-03-30T23:53:01 < ventYl> SWD is ARM-specific, STM8 is *not* ARM-based, so they both probably use different debugger / in-system flash programming interfaces
2022-03-30T23:53:16 < ventYl> and/or STM8 does not support debugging (dunno, never used it)
2022-03-30T23:54:09 < cristian_c> ventYl: I mean, stm8s uses swim, stm32 uses swd
2022-03-30T23:54:56 < cristian_c> since I need swim, I can't use stm32 board
2022-03-30T23:55:13 < cristian_c> *test swim
--- Day changed to maalis 31 2022
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2022-03-31T00:31:46 < qyx> hm does any stm32 have a frac-n-pll?
2022-03-31T00:32:43 < qyx> oh yes h7 has for audio
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2022-03-31T00:59:06 < Laurenceb> https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.bab6867bd76eb2cd4e55faa24d88d2ba?rik=JIL8%2f1UlU1RqPA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fstatic.fjcdn.com%2fpictures%2fTen%2brules%2bto%2bprevent%2brape%2bten%2bways%2byou%2bcan%2bprevent_bab686_4258681.jpg&ehk=%2fLPdAbTRhF5p%2fs4akLZ2DguaGVdHMshVKDyjfe%2bL3Ps%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
2022-03-31T00:59:27 < Laurenceb> I forgot 9 of them today, that was close
2022-03-31T01:13:49 < catphish> this is some impressive abuse of technology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtFNOSTTPYg
2022-03-31T01:14:36 < catphish> similarly, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhBWRh-h71g
2022-03-31T01:17:18 < catphish> ah it's https://github.com/NVIDIA/tacotron2
2022-03-31T01:24:53 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1509293151718191105
2022-03-31T01:31:20 < ventYl> I bet that Nordic Semi is doping their silicon with cocaine
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2022-03-31T01:49:57 < Laurenceb> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3599i3
2022-03-31T01:54:32 < catphish> is there no FPU in the F103? cortex-m3? :'(
2022-03-31T01:55:02 < Laurenceb> no shit sherlock
2022-03-31T01:55:20 < catphish> that's a bit shit
2022-03-31T01:57:42 < specing> cant you use fixedpoint math?
2022-03-31T01:57:50 < catphish> guess i'll have to get creative
2022-03-31T01:58:01 < catphish> yes, i can probably do it fixed point
2022-03-31T02:00:17 < catphish> i just realised i've never actually programmed a F1 before, will have to start from scratch with dull stuff like getting the CPU running at the speed i want
2022-03-31T02:04:39 < catphish> system_stm32f1xx.c has that answer at least
2022-03-31T02:06:47 < kakium69> don't you always need to set clocks?
2022-03-31T02:07:02 < kakium69> unless you run with the default clocks
2022-03-31T02:09:51 < catphish> kakium69: yes, it's just been a long time since i set up STM32 PLLs, and never in a F1
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2022-03-31T02:25:59 < kakium69> xmc1100 was nice
2022-03-31T02:26:24 < kakium69> and xmc hal
2022-03-31T02:26:36 < kakium69> basically one line initializations for peripherals
2022-03-31T02:26:57 < kakium69> no adjusting clocks or anything
2022-03-31T02:28:00 < kakium69> "hey I want that serial with 115200 baud 8N1"
2022-03-31T02:28:16 < kakium69> and it's done
2022-03-31T02:43:02 < Laurenceb> >Pseudo Random Number Gererator
2022-03-31T02:43:04 < Laurenceb> kek
2022-03-31T02:43:46 < Laurenceb> >peripherals faster than core
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2022-03-31T13:40:44 < qyx> ham pros, ay recommended power amp topology for 0-30 MHz, around 4 W?
2022-03-31T14:15:56 < karlp> catphish already regretting his f103 decision I see :)
2022-03-31T14:27:35 < karlp> BrainDamage: heh, I've nto read that paper for years, love these snippets like, "But we are not using PDP11s any more. The
2022-03-31T14:27:37 < karlp> physical memory of modern computers exceeds
2022-03-31T14:27:39 < karlp> 10MB for small computers,
2022-03-31T14:30:28 < specing> lol
2022-03-31T14:32:25 < benishor> qyx: topology? doesn't it depend on the modulation?
2022-03-31T14:32:44 < benishor> for instance if you're doing single band CW you can get away with class e
2022-03-31T14:33:00 < benishor> which means high efficiency
2022-03-31T14:35:21 < qyx> hm hm SDR output, so ideally preserving amplitude too
2022-03-31T14:38:14 < BrainDamage> you're going to have then a linear amp, with meh efficiency
2022-03-31T14:38:51 < BrainDamage> you might get away with AB class with the right transistors
2022-03-31T14:39:11 < BrainDamage> with ft in the order of 1GHz
2022-03-31T14:39:11 < benishor> what BrainDamage said
2022-03-31T14:39:29 < benishor> AB is pretty much the usual
2022-03-31T14:40:11 < benishor> here's a decent and cheap amp https://www.qrp-labs.com/linear.html
2022-03-31T14:40:41 < benishor> it uses BS170 to drive some IRF510
2022-03-31T14:40:54 < benishor> you should be good for the desired frequency range
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2022-03-31T14:43:31 < BrainDamage> with a dual supply you can make the filters' corner freq much smaller
2022-03-31T14:43:48 < BrainDamage> since your goal is dc to 30MHz, instead of 2 to 30MHz
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2022-03-31T15:03:25 < jpa-> just throw a beefy opamp like LT6301 :)
2022-03-31T15:04:33 < qyx> yeah I was curious if tjere are any single chip solutions
2022-03-31T15:06:14 < jpa-> is the output impedance 50 ohm?
2022-03-31T15:06:27 < qyx> yes
2022-03-31T15:06:37 < BrainDamage> the adsl line driver is likely a good solution indeed
2022-03-31T15:06:40 < qyx> i may parallel two of them
2022-03-31T15:07:13 < jpa-> driving in bridge configuration would be nice, but that would probably require a transformer for balun
2022-03-31T15:07:43 < BrainDamage> (0.5A)^2·50Ohm gives me 12W, that amp should work pretty decently
2022-03-31T15:07:47 < jpa-> otherwise the +-15V swing needed for 4W is a bit limiting in choice of chips
2022-03-31T15:08:27 < jpa-> especially at 30MHz where it would need 2000 V/us slew rate
2022-03-31T15:09:04 < BrainDamage> oh, missed the slew rate
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2022-03-31T15:09:49 < Laurenceb> suppppp
2022-03-31T15:09:55  * Laurenceb is failing at bash again
2022-03-31T15:10:14 < karlp> we told you to stop
2022-03-31T15:10:18 < Laurenceb> screen -S ack -X stuff 'echo session id is $session_id'
2022-03-31T15:10:19 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-03-31T15:10:35 < karlp> but nooooo, let's use bash for systems programming and orchestration...
2022-03-31T15:10:39 < Laurenceb> $session_id is set ok, but this line just comes out as "session id is"
2022-03-31T15:11:31 < karlp> I'm more curious what ack -X does?
2022-03-31T15:12:47 < Laurenceb> reconnects to session "ack"
2022-03-31T15:13:03 < Laurenceb>  "-S ack" does rather
2022-03-31T15:14:28 < BrainDamage> is $session_id something you defined yourself in the environment?
2022-03-31T15:14:35 < BrainDamage> because screen has no such variable
2022-03-31T15:16:04 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-03-31T15:16:12 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah this doesnt work when I test it
2022-03-31T15:21:57 < qyx> jpa-: k thanks, never did any RF besides a FM transmitter as a child
2022-03-31T15:22:24 < qyx> as if I hadn't enough other work to do..
2022-03-31T15:27:45 < Laurenceb> hmm it works with "$session_id" when I try manually
2022-03-31T15:27:50 < Laurenceb> but fails in a script
2022-03-31T15:30:30 < qyx> BUF634A looks good too
2022-03-31T15:32:42 < jpa-> yeah, and even meets the voltage swing and slew rate
2022-03-31T15:34:05 < jpa-> thermal may be a bit difficult
2022-03-31T15:35:32 < jpa-> i guess for 4W output you'd be dissipating 1-2 W in a class B amplifier; so just within limits of the VSON & HSOIC packages, but no chance with SOIC
2022-03-31T15:36:47 < ventYl> Laurenceb: where did you sed that session_id? screen attaches to another session, thus whatever environment variables set in session where you call screen are ignored
2022-03-31T15:36:59 < ventYl> also, did you set that variable with `export`?
2022-03-31T15:41:17 < BrainDamage> qyx: 40dBc third harmonic distortion, you'll spew a bit noise when the harmonics fall into your bandwith
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2022-03-31T15:41:47 < BrainDamage> if you use it for tx, you'll likely need an external filter once you know your target bw
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2022-03-31T15:51:04 < fenugrec> yesterday I was debugging with an stlink reflashed with jlink firmware... the target pauses when the debugger is diconnected. wtf
2022-03-31T15:51:29 < karlp> should stuck with stlink....
2022-03-31T15:51:59 < karlp> after a bit of time using jlink with efr32, I'm kinda shocked at well regarded jlink is...
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2022-03-31T15:52:16 < fenugrec> most likely my fault on the target side, but I'm not sure where I'm failing
2022-03-31T15:59:10 < jpa-> semihosting would explain it, but i doubt jlink would just magically enable that
2022-03-31T15:59:36 < fenugrec> on F0, wouldn't I need some explicitly compiled-in support code for that
2022-03-31T16:00:24 < jpa-> jlink rtt in blocking mode would also pause
2022-03-31T16:00:42 < sauce> kinda surprised there isnt a monolithic PA that suits your needs but i guess HF is pretty niche
2022-03-31T16:01:03 < ventYl> these days, I am using RPi Picoprobe instead of stlink. it is surprisingly usable
2022-03-31T16:01:06 < sauce> though qyx if you ditch the dc requirement there are suddenly dozens
2022-03-31T16:05:16 < BrainDamage> 1/f noise makes the dc part hard
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2022-03-31T17:10:19 < kakium69> afternoon sires
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2022-03-31T18:19:49 < qyx> sauce: I want to do something like this https://github.com/threeme3/usdx, with the tx path identical to rx path
2022-03-31T18:20:30 < qyx> so if the analog switches are enough low resistance, I could do the power stage before the mixer.. maybe, at least for a watt or so
2022-03-31T18:21:07 < qyx> I still need a diff output power opamp though for driving the mixer
2022-03-31T18:30:57 < sauce> separate if/baseband and power amplifiers would be a much more typical architecture would it not?
2022-03-31T18:31:01 < sauce> maybe im missing the point
2022-03-31T18:32:27 < BrainDamage> the reason to keep them separated is because linearity and noise are the opposite end of the spectrum design wise
2022-03-31T18:32:40 < BrainDamage> as in, even from a pure theoretical standpoint they are the opposite
2022-03-31T18:32:58 < BrainDamage> so the tx chain is optimized for linearity and the rx for noise
2022-03-31T18:35:53 < qyx> yes but in this design the tx path is totally different, rx is sdr, tx is tuning vco freq only
2022-03-31T18:36:26 < qyx> I want tx and rx be both iq mixers, and the lna/pa for rx/tx respectively
2022-03-31T18:36:38 < BrainDamage> that's super standard
2022-03-31T18:36:45 < BrainDamage> but you want the PA at the end
2022-03-31T18:36:59 < qyx> k then
2022-03-31T18:37:22 < BrainDamage> mixers work well only within a certain power range
2022-03-31T18:37:33 < qyx> but in this particular case, rx lna is after the mixer
2022-03-31T18:38:04 < BrainDamage> it's a bit odd, but if the mixer has sufficiently low noise, it's perfectly doable
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2022-03-31T18:38:40 < BrainDamage> for linearity you want the gain put last, for noise you want gain as soon as possible
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2022-03-31T18:39:47 < BrainDamage> this is formalized with friis' equations
2022-03-31T18:41:25 < sauce> i cant quite decide if sdr on an atmega328 is impressive or the opposite
2022-03-31T18:43:46 < BrainDamage> if it manages to handle 1MHz, then i'll be impressed
2022-03-31T18:43:47 < BrainDamage> I guess an index would be data rate / instructions per second
2022-03-31T18:43:47 < BrainDamage> the higher, the better the code
2022-03-31T18:45:28 < BrainDamage> throw a word size for good measure too
2022-03-31T18:45:31 < sauce> 62khz samples, immediately decimated
2022-03-31T18:47:08 < qyx> it manages to do ssb voice at 2.4 kHz bw
2022-03-31T18:47:27 < BrainDamage> data rate / (word size * instructions/second) gives out a nice adimensional number too
2022-03-31T18:47:41 < qyx> BrainDamage: that mixer->lna topology is quite common on amateur hf sdr radios
2022-03-31T18:48:03 < qyx> using the sampling quadrature mixer thing
2022-03-31T18:48:15 < BrainDamage> quadrature mixer is super standard
2022-03-31T18:48:50 < BrainDamage> there's one thing about HF btw
2022-03-31T18:48:59 < BrainDamage> the atmospheric noise is hueg like xbox
2022-03-31T18:49:20 < BrainDamage> so many solutions wrt noise are a bit odd, because for most things the electronics' noise is what matters the most
2022-03-31T18:49:31 < BrainDamage> while there, the ambient dominates
2022-03-31T18:49:48 < BrainDamage> so they often give little regard to the electronics' noise
2022-03-31T18:50:11 < BrainDamage> hence why you see things like amplification without the apparent noise loss
2022-03-31T18:53:38 < qyx> sampling quadrature mixer/detector, tayloe mixer
2022-03-31T18:53:48 < qyx> not a common one
2022-03-31T18:54:11 < sauce> oh i dont think you can use the same technique for upconversion
2022-03-31T18:54:18 < sauce> unless you have a very narrow tunable filter
2022-03-31T18:54:22 < qyx> I havbe seen it somewhere
2022-03-31T18:54:31 < qyx> but maybe you are right
2022-03-31T18:55:14 < qyx> on the output?
2022-03-31T18:55:18 < sauce> yeah
2022-03-31T18:56:21 < BrainDamage> that's why I said early on that you'll need to attach your own filter after
2022-03-31T18:56:38 < BrainDamage> just the PA has 40dBc third harmonic distortion
2022-03-31T18:56:47 < BrainDamage> that's a lot of in bandpass noise
2022-03-31T18:57:10 < BrainDamage> and it's pretty much how all sdr tx handle it: they don't
2022-03-31T18:57:29 < BrainDamage> and you're supposed to attach your own filter after it after you know the destination
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2022-03-31T19:32:34 < qyx> hm 100 Msps DAC will do
2022-03-31T19:43:52 < cristian_c> I'm trying to figure out if stm8s103f3p6 board sample doesn0t work or not for swim connection
2022-03-31T19:44:44 < cristian_c> Ifailee to flash blinky.ihx using stm8flash as well as stvp
2022-03-31T19:45:08 < cristian_c> I don't understand what is going wrong, in particular
2022-03-31T19:45:12 < cristian_c> Any ideas?
2022-03-31T19:53:23 < Steffanx> I'm still not sure what you are up to cristian_c. You have a custom board with stm8 or is it one of those stm8 discovery board?
2022-03-31T19:53:37 < Steffanx> Boards*
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2022-03-31T19:56:09 < cristian_c> Steffanx: it's not discovery board
2022-03-31T19:56:12 < cristian_c> definitely
2022-03-31T19:56:39 < Steffanx> But what is it then?
2022-03-31T19:56:47 < cristian_c> but a board based on stm8s mcu
2022-03-31T19:56:56 < Steffanx> Just something you bought?
2022-03-31T19:56:56 < cristian_c> quite common
2022-03-31T19:57:09 < cristian_c> Steffanx: yep
2022-03-31T19:57:36 < Steffanx> Got any photos or more info about the board? Might it be locked or anything?
2022-03-31T19:57:36 < cristian_c> Steffanx: I could try to link a picture
2022-03-31T19:58:02 < cristian_c> Steffanx: I'm not sure about locking stste
2022-03-31T20:01:29 < cristian_c> Steffanx: https://circuitdigest.com/microcontroller-projects/getting-started-with-stm8s-using-stvd-and-cosmic-c-compiler
2022-03-31T20:08:18 < Steffanx> I assume you did everything described on that page?
2022-03-31T20:08:53 < Steffanx> Are you sure your stlink powers the board etc ?
2022-03-31T20:12:30 < cristian_c> Steffanx: I've made many attempts
2022-03-31T20:12:51 < cristian_c> I don't remember all the results since several dags 
2022-03-31T20:13:07 < cristian_c> btw, I can try to repeat some tests
2022-03-31T20:15:05 < cristian_c> Steffanx: when I connect stlink to usb port, blue led on stm8s board turns on
2022-03-31T20:15:36 < cristian_c> so, I guess stlink power up the board
2022-03-31T20:16:48 < Steffanx> Yeah I guess
2022-03-31T20:25:33 < cristian_c> Steffanx: stm8scubemx shows me pinout after mcu selection
2022-03-31T20:34:30 < fenugrec> cool, a 0603 resistor with a corner chipped off : https://ibb.co/MRmPPNn What could cause that kind of damage ? No sign of overheating in that area of the board... Also not really accessible so I don't suspect a  mechanical cause. High voltage pulse ?
2022-03-31T20:38:01 < BrainDamage> I would snap out a fresh piece and compare the discoloration
2022-03-31T21:16:10 < qyx> fenugrec: are you .se?
2022-03-31T21:16:43 < Steffanx> Canuck.
2022-03-31T21:17:03 < qyx> hm, who was from sweden then
2022-03-31T21:18:08 < Steffanx> idk
2022-03-31T21:18:42 < kakium69> swedes here?
2022-03-31T21:18:49 < kakium69> swedes where?
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2022-03-31T21:19:44 < fenugrec> qyx, .ca why
2022-03-31T21:22:32 < sauce> https://www.avx.com/docs/techinfo/CeramicCapacitors/cracks.pdf
2022-03-31T21:23:16 < sauce> obviously not an mlcc but some insight in there nonetheless
2022-03-31T21:23:36 < fenugrec> yea, I was aware of MLCC cracking (what a pain) but I don't think it's the same mechanism
2022-03-31T21:23:47 < sauce> there are a few different ones in there
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2022-03-31T21:27:57 < qyx> sauce BrainDamage http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/Tayloe_mixer_x3a.pdf
2022-03-31T21:28:09 < qyx> he also describes its usage as an upconberter
2022-03-31T21:31:24 < sauce> the problem is you're going to get every (odd?) harmonic of the lo in the output
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2022-03-31T21:32:15 < benishor> I am using a tayloe mixer in my transceiver design
2022-03-31T21:32:17 < benishor> works very well
2022-03-31T21:32:32 < benishor> you solve the harmonic problem by using a low pass filter in the front end
2022-03-31T21:32:50 < sauce> yeah just means you get less than an octave of range
2022-03-31T21:33:02 < benishor> sure
2022-03-31T21:33:10 < benishor> are you interested in the whole spectrum?
2022-03-31T21:33:14 < benishor> at once?
2022-03-31T21:33:15 < sauce> so if the application is a wideband sdr, no bueno
2022-03-31T21:33:43 < qyx> wait what
2022-03-31T21:33:47 < benishor> then you use a badass adc with a ginourmous sampling rate
2022-03-31T21:34:08 < qyx> of course I don't want to sample eg. 1-30 MHz
2022-03-31T21:34:10 < benishor> and do everything digitally
2022-03-31T21:34:25 < qyx> if I wanted, I would use direct sampling
2022-03-31T21:34:25 < benishor> qyx: it's been done before. (the twente websdr comes to mind)
2022-03-31T21:34:39 < qyx> yes I know
2022-03-31T21:34:54 < benishor> http://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/sdr/#nov2008
2022-03-31T21:34:56 < sauce> sorry wideband was the wrong term. with a wide operating range
2022-03-31T21:35:04 < qyx> I want a bandwidth of max 1 MHz
2022-03-31T21:35:31 < benishor> I'm happy with 96KHz for my ham radio needs
2022-03-31T21:35:42 < qyx> why is my range limited then?
2022-03-31T21:35:44 < benishor> qyx: why do you want 1MHz for?
2022-03-31T21:35:51 < qyx> I said max
2022-03-31T21:35:53 < benishor> qyx: harmonics
2022-03-31T21:36:11 < benishor> 1MHz bw around 500KHz for instance is not cool
2022-03-31T21:36:19 < qyx> but specifically to monitor multiple CB channles at once
2022-03-31T21:36:26 < qyx> and transmit on a single channel only
2022-03-31T21:36:33 < benishor> you should be good there
2022-03-31T21:36:45 < benishor> put a low pass filter with a cutoff of say 35MHz or so
2022-03-31T21:37:00 < benishor> (in the frontend that is)
2022-03-31T21:37:36 < qyx> yeah that was my idea, around 30 MHz before the mixer, a few 100 kHz before the opamps
2022-03-31T21:38:04 < benishor> sounds grate
2022-03-31T21:38:07 < benishor> you go!
2022-03-31T21:38:10 < qyx> and sample at around 1-2 MHz or whatever is achievable with H7's 16 bit ADC
2022-03-31T21:38:25 < sauce> yeah i am not talking about the receiver
2022-03-31T21:38:29 < benishor> 16 bit, ew
2022-03-31T21:38:53 < benishor> moarr bits, moarr dynamic range
2022-03-31T21:39:27 < benishor> you could do a dual system
2022-03-31T21:39:45 < qyx> 16 bit fast one + 24 bit audio one?
2022-03-31T21:39:51 < benishor> the 16bit adc for "wideband" view and a nice codec for the actual received channel
2022-03-31T21:39:54 < benishor> aye
2022-03-31T21:40:22 < qyx> sounds reasonable
2022-03-31T21:40:45 < benishor> how will you monitor channels? fft, I suppose?
2022-03-31T21:40:59 < benishor> choose a nice bin size to match the channel spacing
2022-03-31T21:41:13 < qyx> some fft/periodogram thing
2022-03-31T21:41:27 < benishor> ah, you want some history as well
2022-03-31T21:42:05 < qyx> tbh I expect to start it around 2030 given the actual state of my to-do list
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2022-03-31T21:42:35 < benishor> I have many ongoing parallel projects
2022-03-31T21:42:47 < benishor> and I keep switching them whenever I feel bored with the current one
2022-03-31T21:42:48 < qyx> sauce: some are ysing switched filter banks for tx, is that what you mean?
2022-03-31T21:42:57 < benishor> eventually they get finished
2022-03-31T21:43:23 < sauce> that would be a reasonable solution, though the disadvantages are pretty obvious
2022-03-31T21:44:44 < benishor> balanced tayloe + nice balanced IQ source should give pretty good carrier and image suppression
2022-03-31T21:45:25 < benishor> and if you use a 0 IF then image is less important since it's in the same channel
2022-03-31T21:46:30 < qyx> understood, learn as you play until ofcom comes
2022-03-31T21:47:10 < benishor> well, aren't you a licensed ham? :)
2022-03-31T21:47:22 < qyx> not yet because lazy
2022-03-31T21:47:36 < benishor> do it! there's too few hams in the world as-is
2022-03-31T21:50:38 < oz4ga> absolutely to few
2022-03-31T21:50:44 < oz4ga> hello benishor 
2022-03-31T21:54:08 < benishor> hi Tim!
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2022-03-31T22:43:32 < BrainDamage> actually, that gives me a retarded idea
2022-03-31T22:44:07 < BrainDamage> if your sdr tx bandwith is the same as the rx, you don't shutdown the rx during tx and you rely on the leakage to measure the tx signal feedback
2022-03-31T22:44:21 < BrainDamage> then you have a model for the nonlinearities and can precompensate
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2022-03-31T22:52:28 < mawk> why leakage?
2022-03-31T22:52:39 < mawk> what would shield tx from rx? why wouldn't you get the full signal
2022-03-31T22:52:55 < mawk> or is it the same antenna for both
2022-03-31T22:53:09 < mawk> even if it's the same antenna for both shouldn't you get the full signal essentially
2022-03-31T22:54:32 < BrainDamage> you turn off the input amp
2022-03-31T22:54:59 < BrainDamage> something you already do to protect it from overload
2022-03-31T22:55:06 < BrainDamage> but here you don't turn off the rx chain
2022-03-31T22:55:22 < BrainDamage> or if you use a duplexer, then you don't turn it off
2022-03-31T22:55:39 < BrainDamage> either way, you get the signal with 60+dB attenuation
2022-03-31T22:56:33 < mawk> that sounds good enough for the purpose
2022-03-31T22:56:40 < mawk> you shouldn't have said on irc
2022-03-31T22:56:43 < mawk> someone will patent it
2022-03-31T22:57:48 < kakium69> did someone leak innovations to irc?
2022-03-31T22:59:38 < BrainDamage> having done due diligence for a patent once, it's not an experience I'd like to repeat
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2022-03-31T23:01:24 < BrainDamage> I'll be happy enough with a footnote citation "stolen from irc"
2022-03-31T23:14:01 < qyx> the best would be to build it ant meassure it
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2022-03-31T23:22:34 < kakium69> BrainDamage: nobody has ever done that?
2022-03-31T23:23:05 < BrainDamage> what part of "I don't want to do due diligence" isn't clear?
2022-03-31T23:23:14 < BrainDamage> part of that would researching for prior art
2022-03-31T23:25:00 < kakium69> ah
2022-03-31T23:25:19 < kakium69> rf guys are pretty creative though
2022-03-31T23:38:48 < sauce> creative enough to name a commutating mixer after oneself
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2022-03-31T23:46:10 < Posterdati> hi
2022-03-31T23:46:47 < sauce> hello
2022-03-31T23:54:02 < Steffanx> Gooday
2022-03-31T23:55:10 < sauce> qyx did you look at the source for that usdx thing
2022-03-31T23:55:16 < sauce> it is appalling
2022-03-31T23:55:55 < sauce> i guess i should not have been surprised given the combination of arduino and ham but.....
2022-03-31T23:56:49 < sauce> it has two separate bitbanged i2c implementatinos
2022-03-31T23:57:35 < qyx> lol
--- Log closed pe huhti 01 00:00:37 2022