--- Log opened pe huhti 01 00:00:37 2022
2022-04-01T00:01:50 < qyx> yes because doing audio over i2c is a bit challenging
2022-04-01T00:02:01 < qyx> I was a bit oh at first
2022-04-01T00:02:16 < sauce> go look at the code and tell me that's why they did it that way
2022-04-01T00:05:16 < qyx> what the hell a single ino file
2022-04-01T00:05:32 < sauce> its only 5800 lines
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2022-04-01T00:08:55 < qyx> manual loop unrolling
2022-04-01T00:09:03 < qyx> a template
2022-04-01T00:10:42 < qyx> it is probably considered pro, lots of math there
2022-04-01T00:10:43 < aandrew> BrainDamage> then you have a model for the nonlinearities and can precompensate
2022-04-01T00:11:02 < aandrew> this is pretty much what every digital front end does in any serious RF design
2022-04-01T00:11:18 < aandrew> in fact I worked on the latest 5G DPD ASIC from Analog Devices about a year ago
2022-04-01T00:11:31 < BrainDamage> glad I didn't waste my time on it then
2022-04-01T00:11:59 < qyx> is it legit then
2022-04-01T00:12:13 < qyx> I found a mux able to pass 500 mA oivber its switches
2022-04-01T00:12:17 < qyx> a bit slow though
2022-04-01T00:12:48 < aandrew> it sat between the BBIC and the PA and did exactly that - it was fed the models for the BBIC nonlinearities, the cables/connectors/etc and the PA and then predistorted the waveforms so after the PA and antenna were done, you were about as close to perfect as possible
2022-04-01T00:13:37 < qyx> both amplitude and phase?
2022-04-01T00:13:54 < aandrew> basically big brother to this kind of thing: https://www.analog.com/en/applications/technology/sdr-radioverse-pavilion-home/wideband-transceivers/digital-pre-distortion.html
2022-04-01T00:14:05 < aandrew> can't remember the damn part number now
2022-04-01T00:14:20 < qyx> hm so you had two signal paths to the antenna?
2022-04-01T00:14:45 < qyx> ah models you say
2022-04-01T00:15:03 < BrainDamage> that's precomputed / premeasured models
2022-04-01T00:15:09 < aandrew> the RX side came through it too, it's all just JESD204 at this point
2022-04-01T00:15:12 < BrainDamage> my idea was instead live reading and correcting
2022-04-01T00:15:37 < aandrew> it did *some* learning but I think the idea was if you're putting up a 5G tower you already did your homework and know exactly what the signal path is doing to your signal
2022-04-01T00:15:42 < qyx> yeah but that would exclude the coax, connextors, atetc.
2022-04-01T00:15:51 < qyx> *etc
2022-04-01T00:16:17 < aandrew> Not an expert but I don't think your cable/connectors/interconnect really does much nonlinear distortion within your passband
2022-04-01T00:16:28 < aandrew> it's more or less just flat losses
2022-04-01T00:16:34 < BrainDamage> if you do things properly no
2022-04-01T00:16:40 < aandrew> or losses which can be approximated simply
2022-04-01T00:16:42 < BrainDamage> if you don't, then yes you can
2022-04-01T00:17:00 < BrainDamage> multiple char impedance jumps + delay is a nonlinear system
2022-04-01T00:17:12 < BrainDamage> which forms a multiple echoes
2022-04-01T00:17:34 < BrainDamage> so if the system is well tuned, it's not necessary
2022-04-01T00:17:54 < aandrew> what I thought was nice was how the entire ASIC was simulated in SystemC (including the quad core ARM) and you could "run" the hardware, although it was VERY slow
2022-04-01T00:18:19 < aandrew> huge server farms emulating the real thing while the real thing was being manufactured
2022-04-01T00:18:56 < BrainDamage> it's for 1st batch failure rates
2022-04-01T00:19:14 < aandrew> that's where I learned I don't really work well in huge teams
2022-04-01T00:19:36 < aandrew> it was very interesting but not my style
2022-04-01T00:19:37 < qyx> too innovative?
2022-04-01T00:19:43 < BrainDamage> the good design labs pride themselves in over 90% mistake-free 1st implementation
2022-04-01T00:19:48 < aandrew> way too much bullshit and far too many meetings
2022-04-01T00:20:03 < BrainDamage> too innovative
2022-04-01T00:20:24 < BrainDamage> b2b in reality stands for bullshit to bullshit
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2022-04-01T00:21:48 < karlp> aandrew: did you happen to check up on your usb2514 board?
2022-04-01T00:22:49 < aandrew> https://www.analog.com/en/about-adi/news-room/press-releases/2021/12-9-2021-analog-devices-radioverse-soc-drives-5g-radio-efficiency-performance.html that is what it looks like
2022-04-01T00:23:00 < aandrew> er that is the chip I worked on, pretty sure
2022-04-01T00:23:09 < aandrew> karlp: oh thanks for hte reminder, moment
2022-04-01T00:24:55 < qyx> BrainDamage: so I will run tx and rx in parallel to be able to receive while I transmit
2022-04-01T00:25:11 < karlp> BrainDamage: nah, yuou don't do diligence yourself, you file it as is, and let the patent office look up things for you, get a few things granted, and then argue about the semantics of individual claims 5 years later when someone wants to counter claim things, but in the meantime you still have "granted patents"
2022-04-01T00:29:48 < aandrew> hah, I can't import this old eagle project
2022-04-01T00:30:28 < aandrew> looks like binary format eagle
2022-04-01T00:30:45 < aandrew> not even sure if this is the right onw
2022-04-01T00:30:58 < qyx> kikecad cannot import binary?
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2022-04-01T00:36:39 < karlp> nicec license agreement: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jW9LK.png
2022-04-01T00:36:50 < karlp> qyx: nah, don't think, binary in eagle is pre v6, so kinda old.
2022-04-01T00:37:26 < karlp> it's doable, but hasn't been done by anyone, easiest is likely to open up in current shittier eagle and resave, but at that point, they're already done with the task...
2022-04-01T00:37:37 < karlp> (remmember, always save a pdf schematic!)
2022-04-01T00:38:12 < karlp> shitty fucking fonts though, is wine always like this?
2022-04-01T00:38:38 * karlp installs a fucking jvm in wine... java ftw...
2022-04-01T00:38:57 < qyx> java is always ugly
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2022-04-01T00:42:48 < BrainDamage> yes, wine has horrible default fonts
2022-04-01T00:43:50 < karlp> I feel kinda dumb, but like, this "installed" and then tried to run, but I hdn't installed all the rest of it,
2022-04-01T00:44:15 < karlp> nvm, cant type worth a damn
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2022-04-01T00:45:01 < aandrew> I'm gonna have to try to find an older copy of eagle, but I'm not even sure this is my board
2022-04-01T00:45:09 < aandrew> the filename is not something I think I'd have called it
2022-04-01T00:45:12 < karlp> current version of eagle should work, but no big deal.
2022-04-01T00:45:16 < karlp> just kinda curious :)
2022-04-01T00:45:23 < aandrew> and I can't believe I didn't have a pdf schematic anywhere
2022-04-01T00:45:29 < aandrew> karlp: nope, autodesk eagle can't pull it in
2022-04-01T00:45:34 < aandrew> tried that already
2022-04-01T00:45:55 < karlp> really?!
2022-04-01T00:46:01 < karlp> that.... seems super weird.
2022-04-01T00:46:13 < karlp> why would they stop loading their own files?!
2022-04-01T00:46:59 < karlp> I've got a linux eagle 6.6 if I poke hard enough at faking out ssl 1.0.0 or something
2022-04-01T00:49:17 < karlp> crap, no.
2022-04-01T00:49:31 < karlp> eagle 7.6.4 can't be faked out with openssl 1.1 anymore :)
2022-04-01T00:49:53 < karlp> aandrew: I know I'm some random cunt on the internet, but I can probably get this working if you're prepared to send me shit?
2022-04-01T00:50:01 < qyx> there must ne many eagles out there
2022-04-01T00:50:17 < karlp> yeah, but 7.6.4 was one of the last pre-autodesk ones or something
2022-04-01T00:50:28 < qyx> true
2022-04-01T00:50:29 < karlp> that could be run without having to sign up and sign in on start up
2022-04-01T00:50:37 < qyx> I habe that too somewhwrere
2022-04-01T00:50:43 < qyx> fukit android
2022-04-01T00:51:55 < karlp> eh, this would probably be eeasier firing up an older fedora..
2022-04-01T00:52:00 < karlp> not sure that's realyl muhc fun
2022-04-01T00:52:44 < karlp> heh, I've written sporadically about this since oct 2012... http://false.ekta.is/2012/10/installing-eagle-5-12-on-fedora-17-64bit/
2022-04-01T00:54:00 < aandrew> yeah I think I had 6.x that dind't call home
2022-04-01T00:54:57 < aandrew> not even my old osx hackintosh has old eagle on it,ugh
2022-04-01T00:55:16 < aandrew> I don't think these files are mine though, like I said I don't name them this way
2022-04-01T00:58:56 < karlp> no stress,
2022-04-01T00:59:13 < karlp> for next time! usb2514 and all good modern hubs can do lane swapping :)
2022-04-01T00:59:52 < qyx> yes lkike pcie
2022-04-01T01:00:08 < qyx> except mt7688
2022-04-01T01:01:06 < qyx> another one in a row of my high speed failures
2022-04-01T01:01:38 < qyx> I hate linux and friends when it comes to half assed SoCs
2022-04-01T01:06:10 < karlp> ok.. wine mounriver studio failed to access the debugger? do I need to give it access to shit? I thought it was running as me?
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2022-04-01T01:07:06 < qyx> whats mounriver
2022-04-01T01:07:32 < karlp> winchiphead's shitty eclipse not-keil ide that ships a binary openocd with the debugger impl for this shitty riscv world...
2022-04-01T01:08:02 < karlp> I mean, it actually worked kinda ok in a windows vm, tonight's idea was "can this just be wine?"
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2022-04-01T01:11:14 < karlp> hrm, wine doesn't support things that need windows device drivers?
2022-04-01T01:11:19 < karlp> that's kinda yuk
2022-04-01T01:20:06 < qyx> hm with lpddr2 I could do moresane routing
2022-04-01T01:20:23 < qyx> except it is 0.65 mm pitch
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2022-04-01T01:27:27 < qyx> now I know why is everybnody using ddr3l, 0.8 mm pitch, ez, super available, much size
2022-04-01T01:27:39 < qyx> and the size sells
2022-04-01T01:35:13 < karlp> but muh powah
2022-04-01T01:36:37 < qyx> nobody cares apparently
2022-04-01T01:38:00 < karlp> nope
2022-04-01T01:39:12 < qyx> I am tempted to redo it with lpddr2 quickly
2022-04-01T01:39:20 < karlp> strike while the iron is hot
2022-04-01T01:39:38 < karlp> I wasted time thinking windows might be helpful
2022-04-01T01:39:40 < karlp> I was wrong
2022-04-01T01:39:46 < qyx> but on the other hand, I will never find out if the problem with lpddr3 was the lkane length mismatch or not
2022-04-01T01:40:06 < qyx> so now idk
2022-04-01T01:41:20 < qyx> I know it will be hard to optimize the current routing without flipping the ddr to the other side
2022-04-01T01:49:15 < catphish> how does one program a blue pill?
2022-04-01T01:51:34 < catphish> oh, never mind, it has a SWD connector
2022-04-01T01:54:47 < qyx> one simply does not program a bluepill
2022-04-01T01:59:39 < catphish> lol
2022-04-01T01:59:58 < catphish> well fingers crossed, it seems as good a way as any to begin f103 programming, an i have one
2022-04-01T02:01:16 < catphish> it amuses me that i'm programming a blue pill with a genuine st-link v2 :)
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2022-04-01T02:38:33 < fenugrec> sauce, that MLCC cracking you mentioned, happened just a bit farther on the same board. 47u ceram cap reading as 90ohms !
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2022-04-01T03:14:17 < catphish> wow stackoverflow is cool today
2022-04-01T03:15:34 < kakium6942> ?
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2022-04-01T03:50:27 < kakium6942> today it's the day
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2022-04-01T09:16:26 < Steffanx> What is happening kakium6942 . End of kakium6942's gender reveal?
2022-04-01T09:16:38 < Steffanx> Lol. -end of
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2022-04-01T11:04:25 < mawk> what gender is kakium6942 , Steffanx ??
2022-04-01T11:08:05 < Steffanx> Idk. It'll be revealed today.. thats my hope
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2022-04-01T15:50:41 < karlp> ventYl: you're making me happy I'm not using nrf52
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2022-04-01T15:53:55 < zyp> context?
2022-04-01T15:54:05 < ventYl> locm3 PR adding some stuff
2022-04-01T15:54:19 < ventYl> it's trainwreck MCU with trainwreck datashit
2022-04-01T15:54:38 < zyp> ah
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2022-04-01T15:54:48 < karlp> like, lol, fuck your dma data integrity... https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Ferrata_nRF52832_Rev3%2FERR%2FnRF52832%2FRev3%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_832_219.html
2022-04-01T15:55:03 < ventYl> karlp: you didn't even see the worst parts, like IC2 locking up completely with absolutelny no way to reset the peripheral
2022-04-01T15:55:24 < karlp> or "fuck your ram" https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Ferrata_nRF52832_Rev3%2FERR%2FnRF52832%2FRev3%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_832_219.html
2022-04-01T15:55:33 < karlp> and "use this magic undocumented register to burn power to work around shit"
2022-04-01T15:55:37 < karlp> like fuck me,
2022-04-01T15:55:58 < karlp> the old "switch to gpio and bit bang the sequence out" from f1 lockups doesn't work?
2022-04-01T15:56:23 < ventYl> nope, it looks like internal state machine fucks up
2022-04-01T15:56:42 < karlp> or "lol, you turned off this peripheral, but fuck you, I'm going to use 400uA until you turn it off twice" https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Ferrata_nRF52832_Rev3%2FERR%2FnRF52832%2FRev3%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_832_219.html
2022-04-01T15:56:54 < ventYl> and while there is no reset, because who would even need one? you have to handle each and every such case on your own
2022-04-01T15:56:58 < zyp> I like the part where nrf52 actually documents the radio registers, but apart from that I haven't used it much
2022-04-01T15:57:36 < karlp> I've "solved" my timing issues on efr32. I still don't know how it results in timing differences, but I've figured out the conditions that lead to it, so I'm just "not doing that"
2022-04-01T15:57:39 < zyp> I added usb support to laks though, it also has some errata where the fix is «write these magic values to these undocumented registers»
2022-04-01T15:57:56 < ventYl> I'd like to know circumstances, under which someone at Nordic said "ok, let's put this little thing out and sell it"
2022-04-01T15:58:37 < ventYl> I never saw worse part with datashit as bad as this
2022-04-01T15:58:39 < karlp> zyp: magic like this? https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Ferrata_nRF52832_Rev3%2FERR%2FnRF52832%2FRev3%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_832_219.html
2022-04-01T15:59:31 < karlp> anyway, closing that window :) time to get some more shit done
2022-04-01T15:59:45 < zyp> karlp, no, like this: https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/errata_nRF52840_Rev3/ERR/nRF52840/Rev3/latest/anomaly_840_171.html?cp=4_0_1_0_1_13
2022-04-01T15:59:52 < ventYl> karlp: I will polish that doc later
2022-04-01T16:00:22 < karlp> ventYl: no sweat, but if you get that little doc bit done, I'll merge it.
2022-04-01T16:00:40 < karlp> zyp: lol, same, but not...
2022-04-01T16:00:57 < karlp> ahh, 52480 has this one too https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Ferrata_nRF52840_Rev3%2FERR%2FnRF52840%2FRev3%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_840_171.html&cp=4_0_1_0_1_13
2022-04-01T16:01:02 < karlp> so more magic may be required...
2022-04-01T16:01:11 < ventYl> karlp: well, the most frustrating part was to understand how much broken it is. I couldn't make simple non-DMA i2c to work reliably for like a month
2022-04-01T16:01:17 < karlp> "usb might not power up" "usb might not be enabled"
2022-04-01T16:01:25 < ventYl> *might not*
2022-04-01T16:01:34 < karlp> "can not"
2022-04-01T16:01:49 < karlp> "Current consumption too high (~900 µA) after using the STOP task."
2022-04-01T16:02:02 < karlp> lolilololiitotlo fuck nordic
2022-04-01T16:02:09 < karlp> holy shit this errata is rad!
2022-04-01T16:02:10 < ventYl> STOP_IT
2022-04-01T16:02:12 < ventYl> REALLY_STOP_IT
2022-04-01T16:02:37 < ventYl> well it has some ~250 erratas :)
2022-04-01T16:03:36 < zyp> my employer loves it, but I haven't worked much on those projects yet
2022-04-01T16:03:49 < zyp> loves nrf52 I mean
2022-04-01T16:04:13 < ventYl> if you are using nrf-sdk, you are shaded from vast majority of these
2022-04-01T16:04:21 < ventYl> but the cost is that nrf-sdk is particularly huge
2022-04-01T16:05:05 < zyp> we've got a common lib shared between projects, I think it builds on the SDK, but I'm not sure how much of it it uses
2022-04-01T16:08:43 < ventYl> there is something like LL and HAL layers, with LL-layer you are still fucked up, with HAL, your flash is fucked up
2022-04-01T16:08:50 < ventYl> and softdevice probably leverages HAL
2022-04-01T16:14:06 < karlp> to be fair, silabs has this, which you're expected to call at bootup, so it's handled in their sdk: https://github.com/SiliconLabs/gecko_sdk/blob/gsdk_4.0/platform/emlib/inc/em_chip.h
2022-04-01T16:14:36 < karlp> now most of that is actually documented, and they're just shortcutting on includes by using all the raw addresses, but I've not tracked down which are actual magic numbers, and which are shortcuts to avoid pulling in too many headers.
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2022-04-01T16:15:49 < ventYl> NRF SDK has something similar. Only that header which provides stubs to tell if you are affected by certain errata or not is 10x the length of this one
2022-04-01T16:16:10 < ventYl> errata handling is then injected all over the SDK
2022-04-01T16:16:21 < karlp> yeah, that em_chip header covers multiple generations of efr32 parts too
2022-04-01T16:16:27 < karlp> and probably efm32 parts as well I guess.
2022-04-01T16:16:42 < ventYl> some of them are really weird, such as SPI clocking too many clock cycles requires use of sacrifice GPIO pin
2022-04-01T16:16:55 < ventYl> which simply can't be handled transparently
2022-04-01T16:31:47 < aandrew> I am afraid to look at nrf sdk these days, they went all-in on zephyr
2022-04-01T16:33:28 < aandrew> I've been fairly impressed with Espressif's stack. It's not perfect but they're really making an effort on documentation instead of just dumping everything into doxygen and being snotty about it on shitty forum software
2022-04-01T16:33:43 < aandrew> ST has the shitty form software and just poor documentation in general
2022-04-01T16:35:26 < ventYl> Nordic's documentation is way worse than ST's
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2022-04-01T16:39:05 < aandrew> you think so? I mean Nordic's is *bad*, but ST I think is worse. Or at least on par... I fucking *hate* doxygen
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2022-04-01T16:40:54 < ventYl> doxygen is OK for API'n'stuff, but for bigger context, it must be paired with some kind of reference manual
2022-04-01T16:41:03 < ventYl> reference manual for nrf5x is absolute trash
2022-04-01T16:43:05 < aandrew> yeah doxygen is shit, I've never seen good docu come from it and even the HTML generated is not great
2022-04-01T16:43:29 < aandrew> the RMs I found decent. The register descriptions could use some work
2022-04-01T16:43:39 < aandrew> but from a "is the content here" perspective, not bad
2022-04-01T16:45:56 < ventYl> until you start using that device and find out that some content you'd want to be there is in fact missing
2022-04-01T16:46:49 < aandrew> I've done some pretty intense things with them
2022-04-01T16:48:18 < ventYl> I didn't have so much luck. I ended up having questions there were no answers for
2022-04-01T16:48:51 < ventYl> most frequent was probably "WTF?"
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2022-04-01T16:49:28 < aandrew> I used the radio to come up with a self-synchronizing tdm network that's used in these products: https://blog.vive.com/us/2020/03/09/virtual-reality-science-rehabilitation/
2022-04-01T16:49:55 < ventYl> on top of NRF-SDK?
2022-04-01T16:49:59 < aandrew> yes
2022-04-01T16:50:19 < ventYl> yeah, that means you didn't have to deal with shitty HW on your own a lot
2022-04-01T16:50:45 < aandrew> not sure I'm understanding: is it the hardware you don't like or the software, or the documentation?
2022-04-01T16:51:03 < ventYl> and re: doxygen, IMHO doxygen docs are only as bad as the documentation itself is
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2022-04-01T16:51:48 < aandrew> at a (very) high level, an NRF52 is sendiing out "chirps" which the nRF51 "slaves" locate and synchronize with using the GPIOTE hardware and a pair of timers
2022-04-01T16:51:51 < ventYl> aandrew: hardware and the documentation combined. HW simply has some undocumented non-trivial and unexpected modes where there is no easy cure for. Documentation simply lacks info such as "don't do this" or "do only this"
2022-04-01T16:52:22 < ventYl> thus, if you do something, that HW doesn't like, you end up in situation, that peripherals don't work and there is no obvious reason for that
2022-04-01T16:52:24 < aandrew> there's another nRF52 that is continuously scanning the 2.4G space for quiet channels that the whole network can jump to if the current channel becomes poor. it worked quite well
2022-04-01T16:52:59 < ventYl> on top of that, Nordic thinks that they are smarter than everyone else, so you don't really have 100% control over peripherals
2022-04-01T16:53:00 < aandrew> I didn't run into that with my various work with nRF51 and nRF52, not with Sixense nor NDI nor Tencent
2022-04-01T16:53:21 < ventYl> I found out that it is very easy to fuck up I2C
2022-04-01T16:53:27 < ventYl> like *really* easy
2022-04-01T16:54:19 < aandrew> For me I've found that having an MCU be an I2C *slave* is more problem than it's worth on a number of platforms (nRF, ST, PIC, etc.) -- they all claim some amount of hardware support for detecting start/stop or slave address etc but it's buggy as hell
2022-04-01T16:55:04 < aandrew> I've done I2C slave on an FPGA but it was a very very basic peripheral and mostly just to see what was involved. SPI is a far better bus for an FPGA
2022-04-01T16:55:21 < ventYl> only I2C slave implementation I have runs on Atmega
2022-04-01T16:55:28 < ventYl> and only I2C read
2022-04-01T16:55:43 < ventYl> I opted for multi-master I2C network, where every master only perform writes
2022-04-01T16:55:52 < ventYl> saved me a lot of trouble
2022-04-01T16:56:05 < aandrew> interesting. I try not to get too fancy with i2c in general
2022-04-01T16:56:41 < karlp> aandrew: I meant to ask you, how tight did you get timing on your TDM?
2022-04-01T16:56:46 < ventYl> this decision was promoted by the fact, how the higher level protocol was designed (it was based on CAN topology)
2022-04-01T16:57:43 < aandrew> karlp: on nRF? we could synchronize the entire network to within a timer tick (62.5usec I think?) and then of course you add slop to protect each timeslot
2022-04-01T16:58:16 < ventYl> and also the fact that I am in ARM world for only slightly longer than one year. this particular project was started some ~6 years ago to run my solar water heater. Thus it used obscure HW by today's standards
2022-04-01T16:58:26 < karlp> hrm, kinda sloppier than I was hoping to get.. :)
2022-04-01T16:58:27 < aandrew> the initial idea was pretty straightforward to set up but the discovery and "swarm" move to a different frequency and such was trickier
2022-04-01T16:58:39 < aandrew> karlp: the timers aren't particularly fast
2022-04-01T16:58:45 < aandrew> one moment I have my doc on it somewhere
2022-04-01T16:58:52 < karlp> down the road I want kinda sntp over BTLE
2022-04-01T16:59:16 < aandrew> sure but you don't need tight sync for that, you can implement software servoing on top to get much better sync than what the timer cna provide
2022-04-01T17:05:58 < aandrew> 62.5ns is the timer tick
2022-04-01T17:05:59 < aandrew> not us
2022-04-01T17:06:09 < aandrew> that's the second time I fucked up my SI prefixes in two days
2022-04-01T17:07:13 < karlp> ok, that's plenty fast enough :)
2022-04-01T17:07:41 < aandrew> so yes, it would synchronize the timers of all the nodes in the network to within a timer tick, and then you had to worry yourself about the radio limitations
2022-04-01T17:08:13 < aandrew> GPIOTE is what really made it work though - you could have the packet ready to fire, have the PLL set up but not transmitting and hten trigger the transmit action via timer tick with GPIOTE
2022-04-01T17:09:13 < aandrew> you configure the radio to automatically flip to RX mode when it's done transmitting, but nRF51's radio is pretty damn slow. the nRF52's radio performance is much better so that's why the 52 was used for the master (and for the scanner)
2022-04-01T17:09:42 < aandrew> slaves didn't talk to each other so it didn't matter if they took forever to turn around, except for the last timeslot since it had to turn around fast enough to hear the master coming up next
2022-04-01T17:10:14 < aandrew> but yeah, GPIOTE was awesome, an excellent peripheral in those devices
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2022-04-01T17:34:50 < karlp> how does transmit action come from gpio? it's not discussed in the _PS doc at least, is there a different doc to look at for how that works?
2022-04-01T17:35:18 < karlp> the GPIOTE+PPI looks ~same as silabs PRS stuff
2022-04-01T17:35:58 < karlp> you're also using custom chirps on 2.4gig, not bluetooth right?
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2022-04-01T18:28:51 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/HDwV0QW.jpg
2022-04-01T18:28:55 < bitmask> second attempt lookin great
2022-04-01T18:29:32 < catphish> what in earth is that?
2022-04-01T18:30:10 < bitmask> copper electroplating the statue of liberty 3d print
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2022-04-01T18:51:33 < sauce> whats the solution?
2022-04-01T18:54:43 < bitmask> copper sulfate and sulfuric acid mostly with a few drops of hydrochloric acid, PEG (miralax) and thiourea
2022-04-01T18:54:59 < bitmask> PEG and thiourea help keep the plating level and bright
2022-04-01T18:55:11 < bitmask> i also added some commercial brightener
2022-04-01T19:17:52 < Steffanx> What did the first attempt look like sir bitmask ?
2022-04-01T19:18:39 < bitmask> it was creeping along so slow that after 4 days only 1/3rd of it was plated and very heavily
2022-04-01T19:18:42 < bitmask> and ugly deposit
2022-04-01T19:19:13 < Steffanx> No pics?
2022-04-01T19:19:46 < bitmask> i stupidly only dipped it in the conductive ink once, this time i did it twice and rubbed it down to try and expose the graphite
2022-04-01T19:19:50 < bitmask> also i have bath agitation now
2022-04-01T19:19:53 < bitmask> uhh one sec
2022-04-01T19:20:46 < mawk> using constipation medicine for electroplating
2022-04-01T19:20:48 < mawk> next level upscaling
2022-04-01T19:20:54 < mawk> upcycling
2022-04-01T19:21:20 < BrainDamage> if it turns out shit, you can say it was only prophetical
2022-04-01T19:21:24 < mawk> lol
2022-04-01T19:21:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/QdY9fYr.png
2022-04-01T19:22:05 < BrainDamage> are the "bubbles" a consequence of the plating?
2022-04-01T19:22:31 < bitmask> in the first pic?
2022-04-01T19:22:34 < bitmask> no
2022-04-01T19:22:37 < bitmask> its from the pump
2022-04-01T19:22:38 < BrainDamage> in the second
2022-04-01T19:22:43 < bitmask> oh
2022-04-01T19:22:58 < BrainDamage> there's clusters of small bubbles on the copper surface
2022-04-01T19:23:23 < catphish> bitmask: cool!
2022-04-01T19:23:31 < bitmask> yea i dont know why it plates like that at the wrong current, maybe its crystals of some sort or i dunno
2022-04-01T19:24:02 < bitmask> maybe something sticks out and then it has more surface area than the flat areas so it preferentially plates more and more
2022-04-01T19:24:17 < catphish> i'm getting nicely into my tesla firmware now :) got the 3-phase complimentary PWM working on the F103
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2022-04-01T19:33:44 < catphish> st-link v2 doesn't seem to work without VCC connected, is there a simple way to force it to 3v3?
2022-04-01T19:35:26 < catphish> i guess i can always just hook it to a separate 3v3 power supply
2022-04-01T19:35:31 < kakium69> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/j-link-edu/
2022-04-01T19:36:56 < kakium69> the solution to all stlink v1/2/3 related issues
2022-04-01T19:37:55 -!- splud [~noneya.bi@user/splud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-04-01T19:39:44 < kakium69> shit seems to be out of stock though
2022-04-01T19:42:42 < bitmask> god damn april fools videos everywhere
2022-04-01T19:43:03 < kakium69> link plz
2022-04-01T19:43:19 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/lBOB9SSdDfU
2022-04-01T19:43:38 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/PqsOgGhIsPg
2022-04-01T19:47:10 < kakium69> about that
2022-04-01T19:48:12 < kakium69> I wonder if magnetic flux based gears could be made to archive less losses than conventional toothed gears
2022-04-01T19:49:52 < kakium69> using magnetic flux as "teeth"
2022-04-01T19:50:26 < Steffanx> I just didn't watch YouTube or read tech websites today
2022-04-01T19:50:39 < Steffanx> I didnt miss all the "funny" shit
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2022-04-01T19:51:57 < BrainDamage> kakium69: the problem of that is that you induce currents in all conductive parts
2022-04-01T19:52:04 < BrainDamage> and those currents will brake you
2022-04-01T19:52:12 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-01T19:52:33 < BrainDamage> there's even magnetic bearings fwiw
2022-04-01T19:52:37 < catphish> kakium69: thanks, i'll keep an eye out for it, in the meantime i will just find a little USB 3v3 regulator to drive it
2022-04-01T19:52:38 < kakium69> including the magnets itself
2022-04-01T19:52:44 < BrainDamage> yup
2022-04-01T19:52:56 < kakium69> catphish: why your board doesn't have 3v3?
2022-04-01T19:53:19 < kakium69> what is happening?
2022-04-01T19:53:24 < catphish> my board does, but the connector on my enclosure only has 2 spare pins for debugging
2022-04-01T19:53:47 < catphish> (it has GND, but not 3v3)
2022-04-01T19:54:13 < jpa-> you have real official stlinkv2?
2022-04-01T19:54:21 < catphish> jpa-: i do
2022-04-01T19:54:26 < jpa-> such fancy
2022-04-01T19:54:40 < catphish> it seemed like a good thing to own, though perhaps a little pointless
2022-04-01T19:54:52 < catphish> kakium69: context: https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2334
2022-04-01T19:55:01 < jpa-> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/504526/stlink-cannot-connect-unless-vdd-is-connected looks like the real stlink supplies the level translator from target
2022-04-01T19:55:42 < mawk> [18:35:26] <catphish> i guess i can always just hook it to a separate 3v3 power supply
2022-04-01T19:55:44 < mawk> yes that works
2022-04-01T19:55:44 < catphish> jpa-: yeah, i found that post after i asked, so i guess the answer is just to feed that pin from an external 3v3 supply, or use a cheap programmer :)
2022-04-01T19:55:46 < kakium69> like almost any debug probe does
2022-04-01T19:55:53 < mawk> but make your your board is 3.3V logic and not something else catphish , when you do that
2022-04-01T19:55:59 < mawk> stlink wants to know your target Vcc for a reason
2022-04-01T19:56:08 < jpa-> kakium69: except every stlink clone
2022-04-01T19:56:17 < kakium69> what
2022-04-01T19:56:17 < catphish> mawk: oh yeah, i guess i need to make sure the board isn't running at 1.8
2022-04-01T19:56:22 < kakium69> clones are not even clones?
2022-04-01T19:56:30 < mawk> yeah clones didn't copy the target_vcc thing
2022-04-01T19:56:36 < mawk> they use fixed 3.3V logic
2022-04-01T19:56:41 < mawk> it makes them less useful
2022-04-01T19:56:49 < catphish> mawk: in my case they'd be more useful :)
2022-04-01T19:56:52 < kakium69> jlink has some jumper inside
2022-04-01T19:56:52 < jpa-> most china stlink clones just feed +3V3 to that pin.. "you target wasn't 3.3V logic? well it is now!"
2022-04-01T19:56:55 < mawk> your case is weird
2022-04-01T19:56:59 < mawk> lol jpa-
2022-04-01T19:57:02 < catphish> mawk: yes probably :)
2022-04-01T19:57:28 < catphish> but this is better that drillng a hole in my engine for a new debug connector
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2022-04-01T20:07:29 < karlp> catphish: iirc, there's another pin on the 20pin header that has 3.3v
2022-04-01T20:07:50 < karlp> at least int he lab here one of the old guys had a bit of wire taped into the stlink, presumably to fix this?
2022-04-01T20:15:34 < catphish> karlp: nope, it only has 5v and 12v on that header
2022-04-01T20:16:09 < catphish> if the programming pins are 5v tolerant it might work, i didn't check that
2022-04-01T20:17:51 < jpa-> uh, no, stlink's 20 pin header does not have 12V :)
2022-04-01T20:17:58 < jpa-> but AFAIK it doesn't have 3.3V either
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2022-04-01T20:18:18 < catphish> jpa-: oh, sorry, that connector
2022-04-01T20:18:21 < jpa-> hmm actually
2022-04-01T20:18:24 < catphish> jpa-: and no, it dosn't :(
2022-04-01T20:18:31 < jpa-> https://www.waveshare.com/img/devkit/general/connector-layout-20pin_h220.jpg maybe it does?
2022-04-01T20:18:55 < catphish> jpa-: i saw that pinout, but i'm 99% sure that's NOT an ST-LINK v2
2022-04-01T20:19:36 < catphish> jpa-: i was wrong on both counts
2022-04-01T20:19:38 < jpa-> the user manual says the same
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2022-04-01T20:19:43 < jpa-> "3. Available on ST-LINK/V2 only, not connected on ST-LINK/V2-ISOL."
2022-04-01T20:19:43 < catphish> jpa-: that in does have 3v3 on it
2022-04-01T20:20:33 < catphish> jpa-: bridging those pins works perfectly! thanks!
2022-04-01T20:20:44 < catphish> karlp: ^
2022-04-01T20:20:48 < karlp> yw :)
2022-04-01T20:21:23 < karlp> nordic updated their nrf connect app to get new assignednumbers,
2022-04-01T20:21:34 < karlp> so now, yay, it shows our company name on our manufacturer data :)
2022-04-01T20:23:35 < catphish> i just realised the tesla motor only has 36 teeth on its encoder wheel, that means (i hope) 144 transitions per rotation, i wonder if this is actually enough to generate a smooth sine wave without interprolation
2022-04-01T20:25:39 < catphish> in the past i've used a *600* pulse encoder
2022-04-01T20:27:03 < jpa-> rotor_position = encoder_count + direction * time_since_encoder_change / prev_encoder_change_interval
2022-04-01T20:28:17 < catphish> jpa-: yeah, that seems like the correct approach, coupled with some kind of timeout where prev_encoder_change_interval is considered to become infinite
2022-04-01T20:29:11 < jpa-> could just clamp the interpolation to +-1 step
2022-04-01T20:29:47 < catphish> with the 600 PPR encoder, i got 2,400 inputs per rotation, this was enough to use: rotor position = encoder_count, since the encoder could easily give multiple counts in a 10khz cycle
2022-04-01T20:32:10 < catphish> i think what i will *actually* do is forget the encoder count entirely, and just count the time between pulses, (again, with a timeout that sets the speed to zero)
2022-04-01T20:37:07 < catphish> max motor speed is 18,000 RPM, 300Hz, that means a max input rate from the encoder is 300 * 36Hz * 2 encoder phases, 43,200 events per second, just need to work out how to time this
2022-04-01T21:00:14 < Steffanx> What speed (km/h) would that be at 18k rpm?
2022-04-01T21:01:53 < catphish> good question...
2022-04-01T21:02:16 * catphish does math
2022-04-01T21:05:06 < catphish> 1927 RPM at the wheels, 1.99m wheel circumference, so 3837m per minute, 230km/h
2022-04-01T21:05:27 < catphish> which is pretty sane
2022-04-01T21:07:12 < catphish> the most hardcore option is of course to interrupt on every encoder edge, that allows me to calculate the speed and direction immediately, however i'd really rather do this in hardware if possible
2022-04-01T21:07:30 < catphish> i can't think of a way to measure speed *and* direction of the encoder though
2022-04-01T21:08:52 < jpa-> catphish: use multiple timers and feed them with same encoder signals?
2022-04-01T21:09:51 < catphish> no can do, they're connected to TIM3 only :)
2022-04-01T21:15:10 < jpa-> and probably also F1 with its limited DMA?
2022-04-01T21:15:23 < catphish> yep :) F103 yay
2022-04-01T21:16:04 < catphish> one option is to stick with my original design, and use the encoder counter only, with 36 teeth, that's 144 encoder events per revolution, but it's a 4-pole motor, which means 72 events per sine wave, ie incrementing the output in 5 degree increments
2022-04-01T21:16:10 < qyx> karlp: how much did you pay for that
2022-04-01T21:16:33 < jpa-> 5 degree increments + fixed frequency lowpass filter is probably fine
2022-04-01T21:17:29 < catphish> there's no filtering
2022-04-01T21:17:44 < jpa-> but you can add filtering
2022-04-01T21:17:55 < catphish> if i do this, the field really will move in 5 degree increments
2022-04-01T21:18:21 < jpa-> encoder_sinewave = sin(encoder_pos); output_sinewave = lowpass_filter(prev_output_sinewave, encoder_sinewave);
2022-04-01T21:18:46 < catphish> oh i see, that's definitely sane
2022-04-01T21:19:26 < catphish> in fact i can just apply the low pass filter to the position in the first place
2022-04-01T21:19:27 < jpa-> also gets rid of occassional encoder noise or similar
2022-04-01T21:19:34 < jpa-> yes, that is true
2022-04-01T21:20:14 < catphish> that's going to be the answer i imagine
2022-04-01T21:20:15 < jpa-> it does give some delay though so don't go overboard; i guess for real fancyness you could scale the filter frequency based on target rotation speed
2022-04-01T21:20:48 < jpa-> so that the filter lowpass would nicely smooth out the 5 deg bumps at whatever the target rotation speed is
2022-04-01T21:21:02 < catphish> well, there's a 1000kg of mass attached the the rotor, so some delay is probably okay
2022-04-01T21:26:39 < catphish> simplest option: every 15khz pwm cycle, read how far the encoder has advanced, but allocate that value equally to the next 5 cycles
2022-04-01T21:28:32 < jpa-> basically FIR filter of [1 1 1 1 1]
2022-04-01T21:29:28 < catphish> *nod*
2022-04-01T21:29:42 < catphish> this can obviously be tuned
2022-04-01T21:29:59 < fenugrec> max torque of the brakes and rotational inertia of the wheel+axle, will give an upper bound on the maximum possible acceleration (i.e. wheel spinning in the air or on ice and you slam the brakes)
2022-04-01T21:30:13 < jpa-> hmm, btw, i think when timer is in encoder mode, you can read direction from TIM->CR1 DIR bit
2022-04-01T21:30:16 < catphish> fenugrec: true
2022-04-01T21:30:30 < jpa-> not sure if that helps any
2022-04-01T21:30:45 < catphish> jpa-: i fear it doesn't because it doesnt give me a time output
2022-04-01T21:30:45 < fenugrec> with enough LPF, probably not
2022-04-01T21:30:48 < jpa-> you could have DMA copy some timestamp from free running timer on every step
2022-04-01T21:31:15 < catphish> can i have DMA copy a timestamp on every timer increment? if so that is a much better solution
2022-04-01T21:31:36 < BrainDamage> there's also the 100 to 0 in 0.1s acceleration case when the car hits a tree
2022-04-01T21:31:45 < fenugrec> heh
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2022-04-01T21:32:06 < catphish> trees suck
2022-04-01T21:32:33 < BrainDamage> that's why you plan to mow them down with your car?
2022-04-01T21:32:36 < jpa-> catphish: actually gets a bit annoying, you'd need two DMA channels copying to two buffers because minimum timer period is 2
2022-04-01T21:32:40 < mawk> nice karlp
2022-04-01T21:32:48 < mawk> you're famous
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2022-04-01T22:02:18 < kakium69> hello friday
2022-04-01T22:03:06 < Steffanx> Hi kakium69. So whats the big thing today?
2022-04-01T22:03:18 < kakium69> vitutus
2022-04-01T22:03:23 < kakium69> Idk why
2022-04-01T22:03:42 < Steffanx> The what?
2022-04-01T22:03:52 < kakium69> it's the special finnish emotion
2022-04-01T22:04:10 < kakium69> the only finnish special feeling
2022-04-01T22:04:20 < Steffanx> Weird things in the sauna?
2022-04-01T22:04:40 < kakium69> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vitutus
2022-04-01T22:05:12 < Steffanx> But this can't be the thing you wanted to announce last night
2022-04-01T22:05:27 < kakium69> announce?
2022-04-01T22:05:46 < kakium69> what have I dones? need to check logs
2022-04-01T22:06:03 < Steffanx> "Today its the day"
2022-04-01T22:06:10 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-01T22:06:18 < kakium69> april 1.
2022-04-01T22:06:25 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-01T22:06:32 < Steffanx> I predicted your gender reveal, but..
2022-04-01T22:06:33 < Laurenceb> Q: what did the physics nazi say
2022-04-01T22:06:44 < Laurenceb> A: imagine a spherical master-race
2022-04-01T22:06:52 < Steffanx> My orbital sides.
2022-04-01T22:06:57 < Steffanx> ^
2022-04-01T22:07:08 < kakium69> hello lurencer spambot
2022-04-01T22:11:06 * Laurenceb has been hyperlooping all day
2022-04-01T22:11:48 < kakium69> it's good
2022-04-01T22:13:01 < kakium69> progress?
2022-04-01T22:13:22 < Steffanx> Is hyperlooping another word for using the bong all day, stoning..?
2022-04-01T22:16:30 < kakium69> is lurencer a stoner?
2022-04-01T22:18:22 < kakium69> Laurenceb: inverter progress?
2022-04-01T22:18:40 < Laurenceb> its postponed for now
2022-04-01T22:18:58 < Laurenceb> they re asking battery manufacturer if they could help make something more suitable
2022-04-01T22:19:25 < kakium69> does it have drive batteries onboard?
2022-04-01T22:19:35 < kakium69> I thought it was powered from rail
2022-04-01T22:19:46 < Laurenceb> this isnt for hyperloop its for a spanish high speed train
2022-04-01T22:20:00 < kakium69> okay
2022-04-01T22:20:15 < kakium69> does it have battery drive?
2022-04-01T22:21:12 < kakium69> interesting idea
2022-04-01T22:21:59 < kakium69> to have maybe only partly electrified track may save cost
2022-04-01T22:26:41 < kakium69> Laurenceb: spill the beans
2022-04-01T22:26:56 < Laurenceb> its secrit
2022-04-01T22:27:12 < Laurenceb> its just a development train, its not supposed to be very practical
2022-04-01T22:27:41 < kakium69> how many kwh/km at full speed?
2022-04-01T22:28:18 < kakium69> how fast?
2022-04-01T22:30:05 < kakium69> main problem with high speed trains are the total cost and operating costs
2022-04-01T22:30:36 < kakium69> is there some approaches to those?
2022-04-01T22:35:31 < zyp> save operating costs by not operating them
2022-04-01T22:35:39 < zyp> and save total costs by not totaling them
2022-04-01T22:37:19 < kakium69> innovative
2022-04-01T22:37:52 < kakium69> >make the best bullet train technology there ever has been
2022-04-01T22:38:02 < kakium69> >do not deploy
2022-04-01T22:42:26 -!- splud [~noneya.bi@user/splud] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-01T22:42:32 < kakium69> >huge savings
2022-04-01T22:43:13 < Laurenceb> lol I dunno
2022-04-01T22:43:35 < Laurenceb> about 0.5MW/carriage peak power
2022-04-01T22:44:20 < kakium69> how many carriages?
2022-04-01T22:44:35 < kakium69> 270kmh?
2022-04-01T22:44:44 < kakium69> *km/h
2022-04-01T22:49:01 < Steffanx> Laurenceb is the train spotting tiktok guy confirmed
2022-04-01T22:49:23 < Laurenceb> more live 300kph optimally
2022-04-01T22:49:26 < Steffanx> Education:
2022-04-01T22:49:26 < Steffanx> University of Nottingham.
2022-04-01T22:49:27 < Steffanx> Haha
2022-04-01T22:49:44 < Laurenceb> whatever tiktok is
2022-04-01T22:49:52 < Laurenceb> its like 30s long thot videos
2022-04-01T22:50:28 < Steffanx> Laurenceb: https://youtu.be/o7iobeBzeBo
2022-04-01T22:52:40 < Steffanx> I wish I could be so happy with the simple things.
2022-04-01T22:57:51 < Laurenceb> top keeeekkkk https://archive.ph/K8KKU
2022-04-01T22:58:07 < Laurenceb> >when u get to "the real world" section
2022-04-01T22:58:29 < Laurenceb> saving to put in my folder of truly epin copypastas
2022-04-01T22:59:35 < Laurenceb> wtf I love global warming now
2022-04-01T23:15:30 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-01T23:28:25 < catphish> well, i've had a pizza and a beer, and i'm no closer to being sure how best to filter this encoder input
2022-04-01T23:29:08 < catphish> i think i like my flat FIR filter approach
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--- Day changed la huhti 02 2022
2022-04-02T00:03:52 < Steffanx> What's a "flat fir filter" in this case?
2022-04-02T00:06:00 < catphish> 1) use a timer in encoder mode 2) run another timer at 15khz, 3) every 15khz period, read the delta of the encoder, but apply it equally over the next 5 periods
2022-04-02T00:06:18 < catphish> jpa referred to it as FIR [1 1 1 1 1]
2022-04-02T00:09:01 < catphish> or, to put it another way, each output is the average of the last 5 inputs
2022-04-02T00:10:54 < catphish> with that said, i will also try without any filtering at all
2022-04-02T00:11:47 < catphish> it just means that my sine wave will only be incremented in 5 degree increments
2022-04-02T00:16:08 < zyp> not FIR [0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2]?
2022-04-02T00:17:50 < catphish> i don't know the notation, zyp yours makes more sense :)
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2022-04-02T00:32:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/ptxyboa.jpg
2022-04-02T00:32:35 < bitmask> almost there :/
2022-04-02T00:35:36 < catphish> nice, but how do you get the statue to conduct to start the process?
2022-04-02T00:36:06 < bitmask> ink made of graphite, acetone and a binder (in this case paraloid b72 an acrylic)
2022-04-02T00:41:03 < catphish> cool
2022-04-02T00:41:52 < bitmask> its great cause you just gotta dip it in, mostly comes out great but sometimes leaves some drip marks
2022-04-02T00:49:14 < mawk> catphish: I prefer adding up all previous values, with a cap at 5
2022-04-02T00:49:28 < mawk> but it's probably the same thing in the end
2022-04-02T00:49:47 < mawk> at each timestep you do total += value; with value either -1 or +1 depending on the encoder status
2022-04-02T00:49:50 < mawk> and you clamp to [0; 5]
2022-04-02T00:50:07 < mawk> it's an implicit way to compute it without having to keep all old 5 values, and it has more or less the same result
2022-04-02T00:50:09 < mawk> it's a lowpass filter
2022-04-02T00:50:40 < catphish> i'm not sure i understand :(
2022-04-02T00:51:02 < Steffanx> Its not you
2022-04-02T00:51:19 < mawk> :(
2022-04-02T00:51:42 < catphish> do you mean just *always* add 0.2 each time? but never exceed +1 until the next *real* +1 arives?
2022-04-02T00:51:57 < mawk> isn't your data binary? 0 or 1?
2022-04-02T00:52:26 < catphish> not necessarily, it's the number of positions that an encoder has moved since the last period
2022-04-02T00:52:35 < catphish> usually it will be 0 or 1
2022-04-02T00:52:49 < catphish> but at very high speeds, it could increase to about 4
2022-04-02T00:52:58 < mawk> ah
2022-04-02T00:53:10 < mawk> what I said is about binary values; forget it then
2022-04-02T00:53:17 < catphish> ok :)
2022-04-02T00:53:17 < mawk> like a button which is either pressed or not pressed
2022-04-02T00:53:39 < mawk> when it's not pressed for 1 clock cycle you decrement the counter by 1, and when it's pressed for 1 clock cycle you increment the counter by 1
2022-04-02T00:53:46 < mawk> and when the counter reaches 10 then ding ding you do something
2022-04-02T00:53:54 < mawk> and when it reaches 0 from 10 then you undo the thing you were doing
2022-04-02T00:53:56 < catphish> mawk: the issue i have is that i have a spinning motor, it's connected to a rotary encoder, and i output a sine wave to it
2022-04-02T00:54:09 < catphish> i need to increment the wave at the same speed the motor is rotating
2022-04-02T00:54:17 < mawk> you output a sinewave to the motor?
2022-04-02T00:54:20 < catphish> yes
2022-04-02T00:54:31 < catphish> my output period is fixed (15khz PWM)
2022-04-02T00:54:52 < mawk> is it to keep the rotation speed constant? or what
2022-04-02T00:55:04 < catphish> but the inputs come in arbitrarily (pulses that speed up as the motor speeds up)
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2022-04-02T00:56:16 < mawk> what do you mean by increment the wave then, clock out the next value?
2022-04-02T00:56:19 < catphish> motors need the magnetic field generated by the electrical drive to rotate at approximately the same speed at the rotor
2022-04-02T00:56:28 < mawk> ah
2022-04-02T00:56:33 < mawk> and what controls the speed ultimately?
2022-04-02T00:56:45 < catphish> yes, i have an array that represents the amplitude of a sine wave over time
2022-04-02T00:57:07 < catphish> i increment over that array at a rate proportional to how fast the motor is spinning
2022-04-02T00:57:20 < BrainDamage> mawk: the motor works like you're constantly putting a magnet in front of a bar and drag it
2022-04-02T00:57:22 < catphish> to speed up the motor, i increment a little faster than the motor is currently spinning
2022-04-02T00:57:36 < mawk> ah, so you're the one speeding up
2022-04-02T00:57:43 < mawk> I see BrainDamage
2022-04-02T00:57:44 < BrainDamage> so you need to know where the rotor and magnetic fields are
2022-04-02T00:57:45 < catphish> mawk: with this type of motor, yes
2022-04-02T00:58:09 < catphish> for other types of motor, you always stay 90 degreed ahead and just change the amplitude
2022-04-02T00:58:55 < mawk> why do you need lowpass filtering? to prevent jitter in the speed?
2022-04-02T00:58:56 < catphish> so the algorithm looks like this: output_angle += encoder_change + desired_acceleration
2022-04-02T00:59:25 < BrainDamage> the position encoder only updates in discrete steps
2022-04-02T00:59:45 < BrainDamage> if the steps are more discrete than the algo update frequency, then you have "jumps"
2022-04-02T00:59:48 < mawk> and it updates too slowly?
2022-04-02T00:59:50 < mawk> yeah like that
2022-04-02T00:59:53 < catphish> to rotate the motor 360 degrees, i must output 2 full sine waves, and there are 144 steps in the position sensor
2022-04-02T01:00:17 < catphish> so that means i get 72 steps per sine wave (144 steps per motor rotation)
2022-04-02T01:00:33 < catphish> which is (imo) a bit course
2022-04-02T01:00:47 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-02T01:01:00 < mawk> then maybe a FIR with the last 5 samples is not enough
2022-04-02T01:01:05 < mawk> if the motor spins really fast
2022-04-02T01:01:05 < BrainDamage> that's 6.something bits of resolution
2022-04-02T01:01:10 < BrainDamage> even visually it'd look ugly :p
2022-04-02T01:01:39 < Steffanx> Draw it very tiny..
2022-04-02T01:02:03 < mawk> or actually nevermind, I guess it's enough, it's just means you can't ramp up the speed as fast as you want
2022-04-02T01:02:19 < catphish> now, it *might* be good enough
2022-04-02T01:02:46 < mawk> you can do a running exponential average also
2022-04-02T01:02:51 < mawk> to incorporate alllll the samples, not just 5
2022-04-02T01:02:55 < mawk> and give more weight to the last ones
2022-04-02T01:02:57 < BrainDamage> that's what a fir filter is
2022-04-02T01:02:58 < catphish> 144 steps per revolution is steps of 2.5 degrees
2022-04-02T01:03:10 < mawk> exponential average BrainDamage
2022-04-02T01:03:18 < mawk> not regular running average
2022-04-02T01:03:18 < catphish> perhaps i should plot this on a chart and see what it actually looks like
2022-04-02T01:03:40 < mawk> it has infinite impulse response
2022-04-02T01:04:05 < BrainDamage> oh yeah, sorry, IIR then :p
2022-04-02T01:04:15 < BrainDamage> I treat them as the same shit
2022-04-02T01:04:36 < BrainDamage> one is the look ahead portion, the other is the look behind
2022-04-02T01:06:10 < catphish> 72 points per sine really doesn't look that bad on a chart https://i.imgur.com/7vuRXOG.png
2022-04-02T01:06:27 < catphish> maybe it'll be fine to just increment at this resoution
2022-04-02T01:06:28 < mawk> NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID
2022-04-02T01:06:39 < mawk> the imgur sysadmin will get his fingers banged
2022-04-02T01:06:44 < catphish> lol
2022-04-02T01:06:46 < mawk> that's because the graph is a bit misleading catphish
2022-04-02T01:06:53 < BrainDamage> that's a linear interpolation
2022-04-02T01:06:55 < catphish> it's valid here
2022-04-02T01:06:55 < mawk> you have straight lines joining each points
2022-04-02T01:07:03 < BrainDamage> your case is a zero order hold
2022-04-02T01:07:03 < mawk> in reality you will have horizontal lines after each point
2022-04-02T01:07:05 < catphish> you're right
2022-04-02T01:07:06 < mawk> until the new point
2022-04-02T01:07:14 < mawk> and that will look quite ugly if you find the right excel setting for it
2022-04-02T01:07:15 < catphish> duh
2022-04-02T01:07:24 < BrainDamage> linear interpolation is already a 1st order fir
2022-04-02T01:10:35 < catphish> bars https://i.imgur.com/VnDkf1E.png
2022-04-02T01:11:18 < BrainDamage> it's going to feel like a stepper motor
2022-04-02T01:11:37 < BrainDamage> at high revolutions it'll smooth out, but at low you might feel the dents
2022-04-02T01:11:43 < mawk> maybe a real capacitor and then you don't have to code anything
2022-04-02T01:12:07 < mawk> do you have to jumpstart these kind of motors? I suppose the magnet is locked in a stable position when it's cold
2022-04-02T01:12:39 < BrainDamage> no, those are the free running induction motors
2022-04-02T01:12:39 < mawk> or doesn't it work like this
2022-04-02T01:12:43 < catphish> *this* kind of motor doesn't have magnet
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2022-04-02T01:13:22 < catphish> there are 2 kinds of motors, synchronous (permanent magnet) where you have to work out the position of the rotor magnet before you can start
2022-04-02T01:13:22 < BrainDamage> as in, the motors don't have any sort of control, and you add the cap to give the extra oomph in the case the rotor is in a bad position
2022-04-02T01:13:28 < mawk> I typed "free-running motor" and I get only results about free energy devices
2022-04-02T01:13:47 < mawk> SELF-RUNNING GENERATOR!!
2022-04-02T01:13:48 < catphish> and this kind, asynchronous, where all the magnets are generated dynamically
2022-04-02T01:14:03 < BrainDamage> mawk: squirrel cage induction motor
2022-04-02T01:14:07 < mawk> lol
2022-04-02T01:14:10 < catphish> right
2022-04-02T01:14:53 < catphish> i wonder what resolution other people use
2022-04-02T01:17:40 < catphish> i think openinverter is using the raw 144 per revolution
2022-04-02T01:18:30 < catphish> well best get on and write the f103 encoder input code
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2022-04-02T01:43:44 < Steffanx> Openinverter is closed sores right? Never checked the signals it generates?
2022-04-02T01:43:58 < Steffanx> Otherwise it's IDA time
2022-04-02T01:56:35 < catphish> Steffanx: it's open, if a little convoluted :)
2022-04-02T02:29:24 < bitmask> what to do what to do
2022-04-02T03:05:53 < catphish> if i'm not using an IDE, what's the easiest way to get data from my board to my SWD interface?
2022-04-02T03:06:09 < catphish> i'm kind of a "printf" debugger, but i don't have a serial console to hand
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2022-04-02T03:15:06 < zyp> idk about easiest, but if you need a print channel, common solutions are swo, rtt and semihosting
2022-04-02T03:15:41 < zyp> I'd argue what's good depends on what you're doing
2022-04-02T03:18:16 < catphish> i started playing with gdb, it'll probably suit my immediate needs
2022-04-02T03:18:46 < catphish> swo is probably the simplest, but requires a hardware line i won't always have, will look at the other options too
2022-04-02T03:30:33 < kakium69> you need fx2 based logic analyzer from china
2022-04-02T03:36:20 < kakium69> very handy
2022-04-02T03:36:41 < kakium69> it could be used to capture swo
2022-04-02T03:36:54 < kakium69> ie.
2022-04-02T03:52:56 < catphish> i have one of those in a drawer somewhere, not a bad idea!
2022-04-02T03:53:10 < catphish> though i also have an st-link that should do it
2022-04-02T03:54:02 < catphish> on this occasion, i was just being lazy and thinking about not using any more than SWDIO/SWDCLK
2022-04-02T03:54:26 < catphish> though once i'm on the final hardware i'll have a serial connection so meh
2022-04-02T03:54:35 < catphish> GDB is doing what i need for now
2022-04-02T03:54:58 < catphish> encoder input working as it should
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2022-04-02T15:10:58 < Laurenceb> top kek https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/cow
2022-04-02T15:17:12 < Laurenceb> from the poster I thought it would be a horror movie or something
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2022-04-02T16:15:33 < catphish> i don't think i could watch that
2022-04-02T16:24:12 < specing> there's a cow barn where I usually cycle, and I have never seen those cows be outside despite large fields immidiatelly adjecent to the barn
2022-04-02T16:24:28 < specing> and the stench is unbearable
2022-04-02T16:27:15 < BrainDamage> yeah, the stench is horrible, but I did see them outside at times
2022-04-02T16:27:25 < BrainDamage> at least in my tracks
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2022-04-02T19:02:32 < catphish> somebody suggested this yesterday, but could i run my timer in encoder mode to count pulses, but also have each increment of that timer trigger a DMA that copies the time from a freerunning timer, hence giving me both a position and a speed?
2022-04-02T19:07:17 < Steffanx> Sounds like something you can do yes. But not sure if f103 can do it.
2022-04-02T19:07:39 < Steffanx> But jpa- also said something about needing two DMAs, but not sure what he meant
2022-04-02T19:07:43 < srk> what's the deal with f1? :D
2022-04-02T19:08:05 < Steffanx> F1 still exists, sadly
2022-04-02T19:08:07 < srk> existing hw?
2022-04-02T19:08:12 < Steffanx> Yeah
2022-04-02T19:08:16 < catphish> yes, old hw, new sw
2022-04-02T19:09:30 < catphish> the other major disadvantage of this DMA approach is that i still need to calculate a delta, so i need to know how many counts have occurred since the previous timestamp, which introduces hideous race conditions, unless i can have the DMA also reset the freerunning timer
2022-04-02T19:10:24 < catphish> i also wondered if i could more simply just chain the 2 timers
2022-04-02T19:10:33 < catphish> but my assumption is "probably not"
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2022-04-02T19:45:56 < catphish> the simplest approach is definitely an "impulse response", where each pulse received increments the estimated velocity, and the passing of time decrements it
2022-04-02T19:48:05 < catphish> the velocity estimation can be used for both the voltage selection (voltage depends on velocity), but also for linear interpolation of the angle between pulses
2022-04-02T19:48:10 * catphish will get coding
2022-04-02T20:17:26 < srk> something something PLL. check out https://discourse.odriverobotics.com/t/rotor-encoder-pll-and-velocity/224/2
2022-04-02T20:21:03 < catphish> srk: oo sexy
2022-04-02T20:22:51 < catphish> i actually have it pretty easy because i don't care at all about the rotor position, i don't need to estimate it at all, i simply need a good estimation of velocity
2022-04-02T20:25:45 < catphish> with that in mind, i'm increasingly thinking i really just need a FIR that converts the encoder impulses to a continuous speed
2022-04-02T20:28:50 < catphish> ring buffer of encoder values -> calculate delta over previous 15 periods -> win
2022-04-02T20:30:17 < srk> sounds good
2022-04-02T20:45:53 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2022-04-02T21:05:57 < catphish> fingers crossed - https://paste.debian.net/1236579/ - hopefully this will generate a rotation of the output that closely approximates the rotation of the motor shaft, this method should 1) smooth out the low resolution input 2) output a velocity that i can use for other things 3) immune to any kind of drift, though this doesn't actually matter
2022-04-02T21:06:47 < catphish> also, nice integer math, for now
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2022-04-02T21:28:06 < catphish> thanks everyone for all the pointers, i have lots to be getting on with now :) https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c
2022-04-02T21:50:42 < mawk> not enough maths
2022-04-02T21:50:45 < mawk> add more catphish
2022-04-02T21:51:56 < mawk> instead of incrementing the sine wave based on encoder input, why don't you use encoder input to determine the frequency of sine wave? then clock out the sine wave as fast as possible to have it super smooth like a baby's skin
2022-04-02T21:52:07 < mawk> maybe it's what you did, I haven't look yet I'm on mobile
2022-04-02T21:52:43 < mawk> it will require scary floating point maths but it's maybe worth it
2022-04-02T21:53:50 < mawk> if the encoder tells you the pulsation is Ω then output a sine wave with pulsation Ω, clocking out values as fast as possible
2022-04-02T21:55:34 < Steffanx> super smooth as baby's skin. Im sorry to disappoint, but you should have seen mine when i was a young Steffanx
2022-04-02T21:55:35 < Steffanx> :P
2022-04-02T22:18:49 < kakium69> morgon
2022-04-02T22:19:28 < kakium69> steff talking about baby skins
2022-04-02T22:19:35 < kakium69> mawk talking about maths
2022-04-02T22:19:50 < kakium69> how is weekend innovation?
2022-04-02T22:24:20 < Steffanx> Vittitu or something
2022-04-02T22:24:25 < kakium69> vitutus
2022-04-02T22:24:32 < Steffanx> Yes exactly
2022-04-02T22:24:48 < kakium69> good
2022-04-02T22:24:58 < kakium69> now you just need to build a sauna
2022-04-02T22:25:34 < kakium69> to collect your finnish passport
2022-04-02T22:25:35 < Steffanx> Yeah why not
2022-04-02T22:33:00 < kakium69> I was a bit tired today had to take 2hour nap
2022-04-02T22:33:08 < Steffanx> awh
2022-04-02T22:33:37 < kakium69> sad because I also had kaljanhimo
2022-04-02T22:33:56 < kakium69> wanted to crash to friends place uninvited
2022-04-02T22:34:11 < kakium69> but it's late now so I code now
2022-04-02T22:34:52 < Steffanx> It's not late
2022-04-02T22:34:53 < kakium69> kaljan himo*
2022-04-02T22:42:46 < kakium69> problms is that I don't kalja
2022-04-02T22:43:30 < mawk> https://youtu.be/ZIQQvxSXLhI — The magic log wheel: How was this missed for 400 years?
2022-04-02T22:43:30 < Steffanx> Alcohol is bad I heard
2022-04-02T22:44:11 < kakium69> btw. is amsterdam open now?
2022-04-02T22:44:44 < mawk> yes, why wouldn't it be
2022-04-02T22:44:48 < mawk> nobody closes a city
2022-04-02T22:44:56 < mawk> even during lockdown you could still buy weed
2022-04-02T22:45:00 < mawk> I don't know if hookers were open though
2022-04-02T22:46:02 < kakium69> there has not been many times I have been absolutelly weirded out
2022-04-02T22:46:22 < mawk> by whom
2022-04-02T22:46:28 < kakium69> by anything
2022-04-02T22:46:37 < mawk> do you want to be weirded out?
2022-04-02T22:46:57 < kakium69> but red light street was one thing that weirded me out
2022-04-02T22:47:18 < mawk> play this game to get weirded out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWmSmXWsWpM
2022-04-02T22:47:25 < mawk> why? the women behind glass?
2022-04-02T22:47:58 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-02T22:48:06 < kakium69> cool game
2022-04-02T22:52:25 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8e3Lg5GFU doggo story video
2022-04-02T22:56:52 < kakium69> howto: get a doggo
2022-04-02T22:57:41 < kakium69> jadew: sup?
2022-04-02T22:58:09 < bitmask> so my statue is plated, what do i do now?
2022-04-02T22:59:16 < bitmask> and why is the voltage going up now that its fully plated, shouldnt it go down? :/
2022-04-02T22:59:31 < bitmask> its gone up like 200mV
2022-04-02T23:01:41 < mawk> current goes down, voltage goes up
2022-04-02T23:01:47 < mawk> if you use an electrophoresis supply for the plating
2022-04-02T23:02:37 < BrainDamage> are you using a constant voltage or constant current supply?
2022-04-02T23:02:42 < bitmask> constant current
2022-04-02T23:02:48 < bitmask> its both but in cc mode
2022-04-02T23:03:31 < bitmask> it was 0.2A 0.4V now its same current but 0.6V
2022-04-02T23:03:37 < BrainDamage> the resistance of the piece went down, but the ionic current is not the low energy activation one anymore
2022-04-02T23:03:56 < BrainDamage> so now it's triggering some less spontaneous reaction, which requires higher voltage
2022-04-02T23:04:20 < BrainDamage> so the apparent resistance goes up
2022-04-02T23:04:22 < bitmask> hmm
2022-04-02T23:06:39 < BrainDamage> that's also why it's a good idea to limit the voltage you supply
2022-04-02T23:07:00 < BrainDamage> because otherwise after you're finished doing your reaction, you start triggering all sort of crap
2022-04-02T23:08:20 < bitmask> i see, im using a very low current anyway so im not worried about that
2022-04-02T23:08:37 < bitmask> but if i was using higher i could see that happening
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2022-04-02T23:10:50 < bitmask> im not sure how shiny it is (still in the bath) not sure how much i should build up the layer? if more should i switch to electroforming solution instead of electroplating solution? should I buff it with either a polishing compound or steel wool? hmmm
2022-04-02T23:12:38 < BrainDamage> i'd try a scratch test, go with a knife at it, see how deep the plating is
2022-04-02T23:12:50 < BrainDamage> do also the same the chickenpox it developed
2022-04-02T23:13:59 < BrainDamage> then try to peel it off by sliding it under, that will give you an idea of the adhesion strength
2022-04-02T23:14:15 < BrainDamage> if you have a good adhesion, I don't see why you can't just sand it down
2022-04-02T23:15:34 < bitmask> seems like good adhesion from the little ive interacted with it but yea i guess i should test it
2022-04-02T23:15:44 < bitmask> no chickenpox either so thats good
2022-04-02T23:15:49 < bitmask> thats what the low current gets you
2022-04-02T23:38:16 < kakium69> apparently I should be maybe using "auto"
2022-04-02T23:39:35 < kakium69> instead passing to template magic sizeof(type)+1 or sizeof(typeA)+sizeof(typeB)
2022-04-02T23:40:07 < kakium69> that provides types equal size or larger
2022-04-02T23:49:41 < kakium69> but with auto I think I cannot make an alias
2022-04-02T23:52:21 < kakium69> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/cpp/decltype-cpp?view=msvc-170 there is dis too
--- Day changed su huhti 03 2022
2022-04-03T00:00:54 < Steffanx> What was this psu you used btw bitmask. I looked like something with a largish display?
2022-04-03T00:04:38 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1510357063448375301
2022-04-03T00:08:22 < kakium69> cool look
2022-04-03T00:08:28 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
2022-04-03T00:16:35 < srk> cool. so many fans tho, looks over 1kW TDP :D
2022-04-03T00:16:47 < Mangy_Dog> heheh
2022-04-03T00:16:51 < Mangy_Dog> 4 in 4 out
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2022-04-03T01:51:28 < catphish> mawk: the answer to that question is simply that i couldn't find any way in the F103 to obtain both the frequency and the direction of the input
2022-04-03T01:53:04 < catphish> mawk: so instead, my solution was to average the number of input pulses over several cycles to try to get a consistent output
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2022-04-03T01:56:26 < kakium69> catphish
2022-04-03T01:56:34 < kakium69> how is the box project?
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2022-04-03T02:01:42 < catphish> kakium69: the box is being manufactured, should be ready for collection on monday afternoon
2022-04-03T02:02:45 < catphish> at that point the first thing i will need to do is check the box actually fits in the space in the car, my tape measure says it will, but best check before proceeding
2022-04-03T02:03:18 < catphish> after that, i will start the process of drilling holes to mount the components to the side walls
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2022-04-03T02:03:50 < kakium69> you had tolerances? right?
2022-04-03T02:04:55 < catphish> small ones (perhaps 10mm)
2022-04-03T02:06:05 < catphish> but the measurement process for an open space with uneven boundaries just isn't that easy or accurate
2022-04-03T02:06:53 < catphish> so despite measuring as carfully as i could, i'm still apprehensive about the fit
2022-04-03T02:07:42 < catphish> if it does fit, i have plenty of work ahead fitting the batteries and electronics into it
2022-04-03T02:08:06 < catphish> but i've headed off on a bit of a tangent deciding to write my own firmware for the inverter
2022-04-03T02:16:01 < kakium69> why
2022-04-03T02:16:16 < kakium69> I mean yeah
2022-04-03T02:16:42 < kakium69> what are the benefits?
2022-04-03T02:21:40 < kakium69> you went with custom logic board already right?
2022-04-03T02:21:55 < kakium69> why not use firmwares intended for that logic board?
2022-04-03T02:22:51 < catphish> kakium69: basically, i don't believe the firmware designed for open source logic board is very good
2022-04-03T02:24:25 < catphish> here's a small but representative example of what i'm dissatisfied with the existing open source firmware https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=38576
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2022-04-03T02:25:26 < Laurenceb> >men and boys face who experience violence against women and girls crimes
2022-04-03T02:25:26 < catphish> and here's the more substantial reason: https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2063
2022-04-03T02:25:32 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of uk gov
2022-04-03T02:25:45 < Laurenceb> >open >inverter
2022-04-03T02:25:51 < Laurenceb> this sounds like something for me
2022-04-03T02:26:14 < catphish> Laurenceb: if you're building an EV, you probably want that forum
2022-04-03T02:26:35 < Laurenceb> I'm building a hyperloop... eventually
2022-04-03T02:28:09 < catphish> i like the open source hardware of openinverter, but i'm dissatisfied with the excessive complexity of the current firmware, so want to make my own much simpler version, specifically for the tesla drive unit
2022-04-03T02:29:06 < kakium69> what is your strategy with slip and voltage?
2022-04-03T02:29:53 < catphish> slip proportional to throttle, voltage proportional to output frequency
2022-04-03T02:30:11 < kakium69> okay
2022-04-03T02:30:45 < kakium69> sounds reasonable
2022-04-03T02:30:55 < kakium69> any idea how tesla does it?
2022-04-03T02:31:20 < catphish> though i will likely add some "boost" to the voltage curve, so voltage = frequency * x + slip * y
2022-04-03T02:31:54 < catphish> or even just voltage = frequency * x + y
2022-04-03T02:33:22 < kakium69> why not just mod that firmware?
2022-04-03T02:33:40 < catphish> because i don't understand it
2022-04-03T02:33:57 < kakium69> makes sense
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2022-04-03T02:34:59 < catphish> it's sufficiently complex that i believe it will be easier to write from scratch, i personally think its complexity exceeds its function
2022-04-03T02:35:23 < catphish> but... i'm not good with 3rd party libraries (or other people's code) in general, so it may just be me
2022-04-03T02:35:51 < catphish> this is the open sores firmware that everyone else uses: https://github.com/jsphuebner/stm32-sine
2022-04-03T02:36:52 < catphish> clearly it works, but many people are dissatisfied with its performance
2022-04-03T02:37:13 < catphish> and i struggle to understand it
2022-04-03T02:37:40 < kakium69> hmm
2022-04-03T02:37:50 < kakium69> I open a 300line source file
2022-04-03T02:38:10 < catphish> i believe (rightly or wrongly, time will tell) that i can implement it better
2022-04-03T02:38:24 < kakium69> it has one (1) comment excluding the licence comment at begin
2022-04-03T02:39:23 < catphish> my implementation already has more comments than that whole codebase :)
2022-04-03T02:42:07 < catphish> sadly comments don't make a motor run smoothly
2022-04-03T02:42:18 < catphish> so we'll have to see how i do with that
2022-04-03T02:42:41 < catphish> and no, i don't know how the tesla firmware works, or even what it outputs
2022-04-03T02:43:27 < catphish> i'm just going to make informed guesses based on my general knowledge of induction motors, then tune as needed
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2022-04-03T04:11:00 < bitmask> will copper tarnish if stored under distilled water?
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2022-04-03T06:11:58 < mawk> I expect yes, bitmask
2022-04-03T06:14:55 < mawk> even dH2O will get CO2 dissolved in it and become slightly acidic
2022-04-03T06:15:08 < mawk> if it's left exposed to the air
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2022-04-03T15:52:53 < kakium69> morgon
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2022-04-03T15:58:34 < Steffanx> Gooday sir?
2022-04-03T15:59:46 < kakium69> g'day sires
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2022-04-03T16:10:16 < kakium69> light up the codes
2022-04-03T16:11:01 * catphish lights codes
2022-04-03T16:23:00 < kakium69> now I need to implement conditional atomic blocks
2022-04-03T16:25:26 < Steffanx> If(!vititus) do_atomic(); else nah() ?
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2022-04-03T16:31:58 < kakium69> does AVR have unsigned byte?
2022-04-03T16:34:21 < Steffanx> whats wrong with uint8_t ?
2022-04-03T16:34:44 < catphish> i would've thought uint8_t was a rather non-optional feature
2022-04-03T16:35:13 < kakium69> I need to investigate instructions
2022-04-03T16:41:01 < catphish> always worth a disassamble if in doubt
2022-04-03T16:41:40 < catphish> but if AVR can't handle uint8_t i will suck off a horse
2022-04-03T16:43:19 < specing> it can
2022-04-03T16:44:24 < Steffanx> ofcourse it can
2022-04-03T16:44:37 < kakium69> https://pastebin.com/sS4frRrH what is zero_reg?
2022-04-03T16:46:25 < Steffanx> google knows all kakium69 https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/avr-gcc
2022-04-03T16:47:22 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-03T16:48:13 < Steffanx> i always wonder if you ask those questions to get some conversation going and you just want us to google for you, or if you're just lazy :P
2022-04-03T16:49:28 < kakium69> this time apparently google for me
2022-04-03T16:49:52 < kakium69> but I try to activate discusions because of what I'm doing next
2022-04-03T16:54:10 < catphish> this is what i decided to try to solve my encoder filtering question, i think it's quite simple and elegant, hopefully it actually works smoothly https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L157..L163
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2022-04-03T16:57:45 < jpa-> catphish: it seems you might want to use int16_t for the encoder delta, if the motor can go in reverse
2022-04-03T17:07:32 < catphish> jpa-: yes, you're right, it definitely will go in reverse, i get pretty confused when i start combining wrapping unsigned ints, and signed ones, and bit shifting
2022-04-03T17:10:02 < catphish> jpa-: but yes, 1) encoder_deltas (which is stupidly named, it should be encoder_values), can wrap at either 0 or 2^16, then encoder_delta can be positive or negative depending on the direction
2022-04-03T17:10:02 < kakium69> if it gets complex make a struct with separate variable for direction
2022-04-03T17:10:16 < kakium69> to archive more complexity
2022-04-03T17:13:01 < catphish> this is pretty messy because the CPU can't know if 10-60000 is −59990, or 5545
2022-04-03T17:16:10 < catphish> someone writes: If you don't know that one is larger than the other, subtract and cast the result to a signed int of the same width. It will work provided the difference between the two is in the range of the signed int (if not, you won't be able to tell).
2022-04-03T17:17:26 < kakium69> do you need a overflow bookkeeping or?
2022-04-03T17:17:55 < catphish> no, i just need it to treat overflow like a continuation
2022-04-03T17:18:11 < catphish> so it should treat 10 as 65536+10
2022-04-03T17:19:05 < catphish> the recommendation above works
2022-04-03T17:19:49 < catphish> 10 - 65000 = 546
2022-04-03T17:19:56 < catphish> 65000 - 10 = -546
2022-04-03T17:20:04 < catphish> that's exactly what i wanted :)
2022-04-03T17:21:30 < kakium69> should you have a loop there for summing?
2022-04-03T17:21:39 < catphish> i continue to be amazed by how twos compliment "just works" for weird cases, bit shifting also still works
2022-04-03T17:21:47 < catphish> no loop needed afaik
2022-04-03T17:22:10 < kakium69> uint16_t encoder_delta = encoder_deltas[encoder_delta_pos - 1] - encoder_deltas[encoder_delta_pos - 1 - 16];
2022-04-03T17:22:27 < catphish> corrected code: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L157..L163
2022-04-03T17:22:36 < catphish> int16_t encoder_delta = encoder_values[encoder_value_pos - 1] - encoder_values[encoder_value_pos - 1 - 16];
2022-04-03T17:23:27 < catphish> misnamed variable, the array contains totals, not deltas
2022-04-03T17:23:33 < kakium69> [encoder_value_pos - 1 - 16]
2022-04-03T17:24:08 < kakium69> doesn't that just equal [encoder_value_pos - 17]
2022-04-03T17:24:14 < catphish> this subtracts the value 16 cycles ago from the current value
2022-04-03T17:24:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-03T17:24:28 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-03T17:24:40 < kakium69> summing might not be the right word
2022-04-03T17:24:45 < kakium69> diff rather
2022-04-03T17:24:49 < catphish> it's written like that to avoid confusion and draw attention to the fact that encoder_value_pos was already incremented
2022-04-03T17:24:55 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-03T17:25:00 < kakium69> ofc
2022-04-03T17:25:16 < catphish> it might be batter to lose the ++ and increment it later
2022-04-03T17:26:18 < catphish> but anyway yes, it calculates the different between the current value, and the value 16 cycles ago, which is functionally equivilent to what i was originally planning, which was to sum the previous 16 deltas
2022-04-03T17:26:52 < catphish> i'll make the comment clearer in that regard
2022-04-03T17:27:17 < catphish> hopefully this will create a nice moving average over a ~1ms period
2022-04-03T17:27:56 < kakium69> what is TIM3->CNT ?
2022-04-03T17:28:09 < kakium69> do you count pulses or something with that counter?
2022-04-03T17:28:50 < kakium69> externally clocked from encoder?
2022-04-03T17:28:53 < catphish> yes, specifically the timer is in encoder mode, so it counts pulses both up and down
2022-04-03T17:29:02 < kakium69> sweet
2022-04-03T17:29:03 < catphish> yes
2022-04-03T17:29:52 < catphish> comments fixed
2022-04-03T17:30:46 < catphish> i have a little more to do before i can test it, annoyingly the motor weighs 90kg and isn't here
2022-04-03T17:31:17 < catphish> so i'll have to write the cost as best i can, then put aside a day to go to where the motor is and do some testing
2022-04-03T17:31:24 < catphish> *write the code
2022-04-03T17:32:39 < kakium69> are you saying you have done a code in one day to drive that motor?
2022-04-03T17:33:06 < kakium69> or just test encoder etc?
2022-04-03T17:33:34 < kakium69> you can test with 3phase diode bridge btw
2022-04-03T17:33:41 < kakium69> without batteries
2022-04-03T17:34:55 < kakium69> it's how c55 did leaf motor inverter comms reverse engineering
2022-04-03T17:45:02 < catphish> kakium69: the code isn't finished yet, i expect to have code by tomorrow that can drive the motor though
2022-04-03T17:45:26 < kakium69> that's ambitious
2022-04-03T17:46:01 < catphish> well, driving the motor shouldn't be that hard, there's a lot more work to do 1) to tune it to drive the motor optimally 2) all the auxiliary stuff
2022-04-03T17:47:16 < catphish> i could literally just feed a static 5Hz sine wave to it and it would turn, so there's lots of steps between that, and having something that i'll actually be happy to put in my car
2022-04-03T17:48:06 < catphish> but once i have PWM output, encoder input, throttle input, and some basic GPIO, like direction select and emergency shutdown done, i will test with the motor
2022-04-03T17:48:32 < catphish> i intend to test initially with a bench power supply
2022-04-03T17:49:30 < catphish> only once i'm 100% happy that no combination of inputs creates unpleasant conditions, then i will consider connecting batteries
2022-04-03T17:50:22 < catphish> i will also get the overcurrent protection working before proceeding too far
2022-04-03T17:51:43 < catphish> on that subject, i need to work out the best way of shutting down the PWM outputs
2022-04-03T17:52:58 < kakium69> is there physical shutdown lines?
2022-04-03T17:53:32 < kakium69> signal that shuts down all three PWM outputs at once
2022-04-03T17:54:00 < kakium69> or six rather?
2022-04-03T17:54:44 < catphish> no, for reasons that baffle me, the person who made this board put output drivers on those lines, and tied the driver enable line to GND
2022-04-03T17:55:19 < catphish> despite going to the effort of adding a hardware current comparator that generates an emergency shutdown signal
2022-04-03T17:55:29 < catphish> the shutdown signal still has to be processed by software
2022-04-03T17:57:47 < catphish> i think the best option for shutdown is to zero TIM1->CCER
2022-04-03T18:00:28 < BrainDamage> sounds like the shutdown signal isn't super reliable
2022-04-03T18:00:39 < kakium69> idk if production EVs have hard shutdown signals
2022-04-03T18:00:46 < kakium69> what would trigger those signals?
2022-04-03T18:01:03 < BrainDamage> correctly or incorrectly?
2022-04-03T18:01:33 < kakium69> for currents etc. all math is done in mcu anyways
2022-04-03T18:01:36 < BrainDamage> having the motor halt on a glitch is also a big problem
2022-04-03T18:01:44 < catphish> but the obvious one is a current comparator, if current exceeds some value, i would have it latch a shutdown line, and pull all the line drivers low
2022-04-03T18:02:05 < kakium69> for development use yeah
2022-04-03T18:02:14 < catphish> why wouldn't you do this in production?
2022-04-03T18:02:35 < BrainDamage> because a single signal can make your engine power brake
2022-04-03T18:02:43 < catphish> why would it brake?
2022-04-03T18:02:49 < kakium69> reduntant parts increase price
2022-04-03T18:03:00 < catphish> (it wouldn't)
2022-04-03T18:03:13 < BrainDamage> you put all your drivers low, right? that's shorting the engine
2022-04-03T18:03:22 < BrainDamage> it's the strongest brake you can do
2022-04-03T18:03:32 < BrainDamage> as long as it has residual magnetization
2022-04-03T18:03:44 < kakium69> emergency shutdown leaves drivers floating?
2022-04-03T18:03:44 < catphish> BrainDamage: no, all drivers low = no IGBTs conducting
2022-04-03T18:03:51 < catphish> yeah, all floating
2022-04-03T18:03:55 < BrainDamage> ah
2022-04-03T18:04:03 < BrainDamage> then nvm
2022-04-03T18:04:49 < catphish> when i say drivers, i mean the IGBT / modfet drivers, so yea, the actual motor phase lines end up floating
2022-04-03T18:04:51 < BrainDamage> you'd have loss of acceleration, but that's not as bad as power braking
2022-04-03T18:05:10 < catphish> but this is better than persisting a short circuit
2022-04-03T18:05:43 < catphish> you're going to need a new drive unit regardless :)
2022-04-03T18:05:43 < BrainDamage> are the body diodes rated for full current sustained?
2022-04-03T18:06:06 < catphish> BrainDamage: i don't know, but i'd assume so
2022-04-03T18:06:14 < qyx> catphish: did you consider ADC watchdog + internal trigger for timer?
2022-04-03T18:06:53 < catphish> qyx: i was going to see what options existed in the F103 but haven't yet
2022-04-03T18:06:53 < qyx> if you are measuring current using the ADC, you don't need a comparator, overcurrent can be handled fully in "hw"
2022-04-03T18:07:00 < BrainDamage> does the comparator have a lowpass filter?
2022-04-03T18:07:01 < qyx> oh F103
2022-04-03T18:07:31 < catphish> qyx: i assume if the F103 had a nice hardware comparator, there'd be no need for the external one
2022-04-03T18:07:33 < srk> no break input on advanced timer there either?
2022-04-03T18:08:09 < catphish> my plan is basically just to have an interrupt on the error line, and if it ever goes high, set TIM1->CCER=0, and halt
2022-04-03T18:09:03 < catphish> while(1) TIM1->CCER=0; // Noooooooo
2022-04-03T18:09:59 < catphish> that actually wouldn't prevent the rest of the event driven code from running, but that's the general concept :)
2022-04-03T18:12:06 < srk> I think BKIN can do that but w/o going thru software, it disables MOE
2022-04-03T18:12:40 < srk> and interrupt can be generated as well
2022-04-03T18:13:07 < srk> there's one st eval board that has the current comparators + BKIN for safety iirc
2022-04-03T18:13:42 < catphish> ah i wasn't aware of BKIN, maybe that's what this board uses, that would be good
2022-04-03T18:14:25 < catphish> srk: you're absolutely correct, they call it pwm_inhibit, and it's connected to the BKIN pin, amazing
2022-04-03T18:14:37 < srk> ^^ cool
2022-04-03T18:14:45 < catphish> i totally missed that concept
2022-04-03T18:26:34 < kakium69> ragecoding.exe
2022-04-03T18:29:59 < catphish> tried enabling the hardware break, it works, but something other than the BKIN pin is triggering it
2022-04-03T18:33:26 < catphish> weird, it works if i reverse its input polarity
2022-04-03T18:35:42 < catphish> found the problem, fat fingers :)
2022-04-03T18:40:21 < catphish> srk: inhibits nicely https://i.imgur.com/GwVfQHg.jpg - thanks again
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2022-04-03T19:00:11 < kakium69> can I check somehow that value is within defined enums?
2022-04-03T19:00:17 < kakium69> for static_assert
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2022-04-03T19:04:26 < kakium69> can I get largest defined enum somehow from enum type?
2022-04-03T19:05:41 < qyx> in C, usuall a _MAX enum is defined as the last one
2022-04-03T19:05:45 < qyx> *usually
2022-04-03T19:06:32 < catphish> this confused me: "Any write operation to this bit takes a delay of 1 APB clock cycle to become effective"
2022-04-03T19:06:44 < catphish> i read this and thought "meh, who cares about 1 clock cycle"
2022-04-03T19:07:09 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-03T19:07:14 < kakium69> thanks qyx
2022-04-03T19:07:52 < catphish> but... TIM1->BDTR = TIM_BDTR_BKE; TIM1->BDTR |= deadtime;
2022-04-03T19:08:06 < catphish> has the unpleasant effect of not reading back the bit
2022-04-03T19:09:05 < kakium69> enum_type::max() qyx?
2022-04-03T19:09:28 < qyx> idk, sounds very c++
2022-04-03T19:09:41 < qyx> my c++fu is essentially zero
2022-04-03T19:12:14 < jpa-> kakium69: google finds some horrible template hacks like https://godbolt.org/z/4fvGYe7vM but i would just use an explicit _MAX value
2022-04-03T19:12:58 < jpa-> kakium69: i guess you'd need only the EnumValid from there, which isn't too bad
2022-04-03T19:13:07 < kakium69> I only want standard template hacks
2022-04-03T19:13:26 < jpa-> sorry, this is squarely in the range of horrible hacks
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2022-04-03T19:13:55 < jpa-> why are you casting ints to enums anyway? especially in a context where static_assert would be relevant?
2022-04-03T19:14:41 < cristian_c> hi
2022-04-03T19:17:22 < cristian_c> I'm trying to test stm8s103f3p6 with stlinkv2 and I've followed https://circuitdigest.com/microcontroller-projects/getting-started-with-stm8s-using-stvd-and-cosmic-compiler
2022-04-03T19:17:42 < cristian_c> but when I flash I always get error message
2022-04-03T19:18:07 < cristian_c> I'm trying to figure out what it's going wrong but I've found no clues
2022-04-03T19:18:12 < cristian_c> any ideas about that?
2022-04-03T19:21:30 < Steffanx> heh still didnt give up cristian_c?
2022-04-03T19:23:19 < cristian_c> Steffanx: I don't know what's the problem with the board
2022-04-03T19:23:32 < Steffanx> me neither'\
2022-04-03T19:23:39 < cristian_c> Has anyone any other ideas?
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2022-04-03T19:26:14 < kakium69> jpa-: don't ask too hard questions
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2022-04-03T20:02:38 < mawk> you can't kakium69
2022-04-03T20:02:41 < mawk> get biggest enum type
2022-04-03T20:02:48 < mawk> that's why you do what qyx said
2022-04-03T20:02:59 < mawk> define the latest enum member as __MAX to get max value
2022-04-03T20:03:06 < mawk> but that presupposes there are no gaps in the enum value
2022-04-03T20:03:29 < mawk> there's no 100% sure way, apart from doing static code analysis
2022-04-03T20:03:47 < mawk> maybe gcc has an option for that like -fcheck-enum or whatever
2022-04-03T20:04:01 < mawk> but as a rule of thumb if you never cast to the enum type you will always be in bounds
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2022-04-03T20:20:35 < bitmask> damn it started turning dark right after i took it out
2022-04-03T20:20:36 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/JhefcA5
2022-04-03T20:21:21 < Steffanx> it needs to be oxidized copper green anyway ;)
2022-04-03T20:21:41 < bitmask> thats why i did this, to see what it would look like without oxidation :P
2022-04-03T20:21:48 < bitmask> i guess i could just watch fringe again :/
2022-04-03T20:22:00 < Steffanx> Yes, awesome series.
2022-04-03T20:22:08 < bitmask> yessir
2022-04-03T20:23:54 < Steffanx> ive seen it more than once..
2022-04-03T20:24:15 < bitmask> me too, maybe thrice
2022-04-03T20:24:54 < Steffanx> hah
2022-04-03T20:25:56 < Steffanx> im was little disappointed by the last season each time.
2022-04-03T20:27:17 < Steffanx> or was it before that.. anyway, its when the time jump happens
2022-04-03T20:28:58 < bitmask> i forget if its the last episode but using all the compounds and infections discovered throughout the series to infiltrate the building was kinda lame
2022-04-03T20:30:56 < bitmask> it might be time to rewatch it, i dont remember a lot
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2022-04-03T20:42:27 < Steffanx> hah good luck with that.. if you have the time
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2022-04-03T22:17:35 < zyp> catphish, part of the issue is that the APBs are usually running at a fraction of the cpu clock, so one APB cycle is usually multiple cpu cycles, leaving plenty of time for the cpu to queue up multiple accesses back to back
2022-04-03T23:00:44 < catphish> zyp: i see, that makes sense
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2022-04-03T23:52:29 < Laurenceb> Putincel
--- Day changed ma huhti 04 2022
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2022-04-04T00:17:44 < specing> lol
2022-04-04T00:17:52 < specing> good one
2022-04-04T00:23:19 < Laurenceb> Putins army is the real beta uprising
2022-04-04T00:32:10 < kakium69> Laurenceb: any pics from hyper trains projects?
2022-04-04T00:32:20 < Laurenceb> no its top sekrit
2022-04-04T00:34:18 < mawk> Laurenceb: connect to irc with a an0nymous account to post the pic
2022-04-04T00:34:21 < mawk> no-one will know it's you
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2022-04-04T00:35:24 < kakium69> Laurenceb: are you encountering industrial espionage?
2022-04-04T00:38:24 < mawk> good CatCow now post the pic
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2022-04-04T00:43:33 < Laurenceb> my employment contract says I have to keep it secrit
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2022-04-04T01:03:04 < kakium69> sekrit stuff is the bestest
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2022-04-04T01:26:20 < CatCow> mawk what pic
2022-04-04T01:27:58 < mawk> nevermind CatCow
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2022-04-04T01:43:40 < karlp> qyx: a bluetooth sig assigned manufactuer number is actually free, just some paperwork headaches.
2022-04-04T01:44:31 < mawk> unlike USB
2022-04-04T01:44:40 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-04T01:44:42 < Laurenceb> Aria Beingessner is a tard
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2022-04-04T01:45:29 < karlp> we joined at adopter level, which is free: https://www.bluetooth.com/develop-with-bluetooth/join/membership-benefits/
2022-04-04T01:47:20 < karlp> mawk: not entirely the same.
2022-04-04T01:47:45 < karlp> you can still pay $x000 dollars to get some assigned 16bit numbers that are usable at a higher level....
2022-04-04T01:49:50 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-04-04T01:50:42 < karlp> so we have a company id assigned here: https://support.bluetooth.com/hc/en-us/articles/360062030092-Requesting-Assigned-Numbers but not a 16bit uuid for services
2022-04-04T02:23:39 < catphish> mawk: USB IDs are freely available, after all, they're just numbers, nobody owns numbers :)
2022-04-04T02:25:34 < mawk> yeah catphish
2022-04-04T02:25:41 < mawk> but that might make it hard for automatic driver install
2022-04-04T02:25:46 < mawk> and all that
2022-04-04T02:26:12 < mawk> unless you have a common device like HID then you can use WCID on windows to auto-install the driver as specified in some special endpoint
2022-04-04T02:26:20 < catphish> mawk: i use https://pid.codes/ - provides a reasonable guarantee of uniqueness without the cost
2022-04-04T02:26:25 < mawk> and I think the vid:pid won't matter
2022-04-04T02:26:51 < mawk> yeah but that's a real vid:pid catphish
2022-04-04T02:26:53 < mawk> it's not picking a random one
2022-04-04T02:27:03 < mawk> it's a company that is subsiding their license
2022-04-04T02:27:14 < mawk> which is not allowed anymore for new licenses, USB consortium didn't like the concept
2022-04-04T02:27:39 < catphish> afaik they don't have a licence per-se
2022-04-04T02:27:48 < mawk> they say it in the text
2022-04-04T02:28:09 < mawk> they have a vendor id from the time when the contract allowed giving away PIDs
2022-04-04T02:28:13 < catphish> i thought they were using an old VID with the assumption it can never be reclaimed
2022-04-04T02:28:16 < mawk> so they do it for open-sores projects
2022-04-04T02:28:47 < catphish> i guess they're grey-market PIDs :)
2022-04-04T02:29:10 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-04T02:29:11 < catphish> in any case, it's a nice way to guarantee uniqueness if you're too cheap to support the standards org
2022-04-04T02:29:26 < mawk> I guess they support themselves very good
2022-04-04T02:29:28 < mawk> for a $6k ticket
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2022-04-04T02:29:46 < catphish> "This site is in no way supported or endorsed by USB-IF."
2022-04-04T02:29:54 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-04T02:29:59 < mawk> the consortium doesn't agree with this
2022-04-04T02:30:10 < catphish> well i'm sure they'd rather more people paid
2022-04-04T02:30:52 < catphish> they should sell $25 individual PIDs for startups to use
2022-04-04T02:31:08 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-04T02:31:33 < mawk> well startups don't have a choice, the pid.codes website is just for opensauce
2022-04-04T02:31:46 < mawk> they can use a fake pid:vid I guess, but that's not very good for the end-user
2022-04-04T02:31:49 < mawk> and for the ecosystem in general
2022-04-04T02:32:09 < Laurenceb> 🅉
2022-04-04T02:32:27 < catphish> startups should be making their shiz open source
2022-04-04T02:33:37 < Laurenceb> you dont want to see our simulink crap
2022-04-04T02:33:40 < mawk> for chinks to clone it
2022-04-04T02:33:48 < mawk> Laurenceb is a fascist confirmed
2022-04-04T02:33:51 < Laurenceb> literal spaghetti ""code"
2022-04-04T02:34:25 < mawk> did you write it?
2022-04-04T02:34:31 < catphish> if your product isn't open source, you are gay
2022-04-04T02:35:25 < Laurenceb> mawk: no way
2022-04-04T02:35:32 < mawk> what if I like being gay catphish
2022-04-04T02:35:33 < Laurenceb> I don't touch the shitulink
2022-04-04T02:35:39 < Laurenceb> no homo
2022-04-04T02:35:40 < mawk> should I make my product close source?
2022-04-04T02:35:44 < mawk> lol Laurenceb
2022-04-04T02:35:58 < catphish> mawk: yes
2022-04-04T02:36:15 < catphish> mawk: i don't make therules
2022-04-04T02:36:55 < mawk> :(
2022-04-04T02:38:42 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/MrGeorgeFrancis/status/1510408136347328512#m
2022-04-04T02:39:54 < catphish> there are 85 people in this channel, according to statistics i can find, that means about 4 of you are gay, so i should probably avoid even the most well intentioned of offensive remarks!
2022-04-04T02:40:38 < Laurenceb> lmao
2022-04-04T02:40:56 < Laurenceb> its like 4chan brit where none of them are actually british
2022-04-04T02:41:18 < mawk> let's play find the gay catphish
2022-04-04T02:41:22 < Laurenceb> here everyone is offensive despite half being gay
2022-04-04T02:41:24 < mawk> who's the most obvious gay of the channel?
2022-04-04T02:41:33 < catphish> an interviewing manager at my company once famously asked a candidate: "you're not gay are you?"
2022-04-04T02:41:40 < mawk> lol
2022-04-04T02:41:47 < mawk> he answered yes I hope
2022-04-04T02:41:53 < Laurenceb> at my school we had a "gay square", if you touched it you were gay
2022-04-04T02:41:57 < mawk> lol
2022-04-04T02:42:12 < Laurenceb> it was funny because my school was a ww2 pow camp
2022-04-04T02:42:15 < mawk> so it was the gay meetup point, people that were down for the gloryhole waited in the square?
2022-04-04T02:42:23 < Laurenceb> the square was the foundation for a watchtower
2022-04-04T02:42:27 < catphish> 1) he did 2) we hired him, he was awesome
2022-04-04T02:42:28 < mawk> my school was a covent for nuns
2022-04-04T02:42:42 < mawk> nice
2022-04-04T02:43:00 < Laurenceb> they used to keep Italians there lol
2022-04-04T02:43:09 < mawk> we have one of them at work, I realized it when he said "my boyfriend blablabla" at some point in a conversation
2022-04-04T02:43:36 < Laurenceb> most of the guards were polish and some of the kids at the school were their descendants
2022-04-04T02:43:57 < Laurenceb> but some were descended from the former inmates lol
2022-04-04T02:43:58 < catphish> during the same interview, he was offered nuts, he refused, he was asked "you're not alergic to nuts are you?", also affirmative
2022-04-04T02:44:14 < mawk> lol
2022-04-04T02:44:20 < mawk> what prompted the gay question?
2022-04-04T02:44:42 < catphish> i actually have no idea, i assume it was at least situationally appropriate
2022-04-04T02:45:01 < catphish> as much as such a question can be!
2022-04-04T02:45:12 < mawk> like the guy was wearing pink
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2022-04-04T02:49:54 < catphish> no idea
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2022-04-04T05:34:23 < bitmask> why do my copper platings turn back into copper sulfate?
2022-04-04T05:34:27 < bitmask> i dont fucking get it
2022-04-04T05:34:37 < bitmask> is it embedded in the plating and leaks through?
2022-04-04T05:53:51 < catphish> 3 phase outputs are pretty :) https://i.imgur.com/JpU9fBe.png
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2022-04-04T08:53:21 < jpa-> catphish: i used a different kind of 3-phase PWM function where each output is constant 0 for 1/3rd of the period: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bldc_pwm.png
2022-04-04T08:53:42 < jpa-> might reduce switching losses
2022-04-04T08:54:53 < jpa-> also computationally simple, phaseX - min(phase1, phase2, phase3)
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2022-04-04T09:48:03 < jpa-> PaulFertser: are you safe from the draft in russia?
2022-04-04T09:51:11 < PaulFertser> jpa-: yes, I'm over 27 years old.
2022-04-04T09:51:24 < jpa-> good :)
2022-04-04T09:51:41 < PaulFertser> jpa-: about the same draft happens twice a year, this year's no exception.
2022-04-04T09:52:01 < jpa-> yeah, just different kind of "serving your country"
2022-04-04T09:52:50 < PaulFertser> I am reading Finland is among really few countries in developed world where drafting also happens.
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2022-04-04T09:53:37 < jpa-> yeah, and actually most of the men here go through military service
2022-04-04T09:54:12 < jpa-> a few years ago i might have called that a relic of the past, but unfortunately history repeats..
2022-04-04T10:01:06 < benishor> israel does too if I'm not mistaken
2022-04-04T10:01:36 < benishor> PaulFertser: how come you still have internets? hasn't the splinternet kicked in yet?
2022-04-04T10:02:09 < benishor> I seem to have read it's in its glorious final stages
2022-04-04T10:03:42 < PaulFertser> benishor: I'm not sure they really aim for a China-style firewall yet. So far it doesn't look like that. No DPI blocking encrypted traffic or anything.
2022-04-04T10:03:43 < qyx> jpa-: I wouldn't mind being taught how to operate eg. radars, anti missile systems, or doing telecom/radios in field, but I don't like the killing and be killed part
2022-04-04T10:04:05 < qyx> is starlink forbidden yet?
2022-04-04T10:04:51 < benishor> most likely
2022-04-04T10:04:57 < PaulFertser> Starlink was never allowed to begin with.
2022-04-04T10:05:17 < benishor> I bet it's also deemed unfriendly
2022-04-04T10:05:49 < jpa-> modern warfare seems to be against reckless countries mostly, so it gets "kill enemy soldiers that were forced / tricked to battlefield, meanwhile they bomb your civilians"
2022-04-04T10:06:14 < benishor> PaulFertser: what's the general stance amongst ordinary russian people?
2022-04-04T10:06:31 < PaulFertser> If you look with BGP looking glass resources you can see russia still has plenty of connectivity to other countries working just fine. Nothing really changed in this aspect so far, probably yet.
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2022-04-04T10:07:16 < PaulFertser> benishor: I do not talk to ordinary people much. My guess would be many still believe propaganda about ukranian nazis, biolabs etc.
2022-04-04T10:08:00 < jpa-> https://twitter.com/spideesense1/status/1510588315988381705 this was pretty depressing (russians on street with very anti-ukraina views)
2022-04-04T10:10:24 -!- ventYl [~ventyl@bband-dyn3.95-103-125.t-com.sk] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-04T10:11:22 < PaulFertser> Please note that it's not a correct way to get unbiased stastistics about what russians currently think. But also no right way exists because they closed all independent organistions doing polls.
2022-04-04T10:12:38 < jpa-> and without real democracy, it doesn't even matter what majority thinks
2022-04-04T10:12:53 < jpa-> only what the people with means to act think
2022-04-04T10:12:55 < PaulFertser> Internet access is lightly restricted, e.g. you can't go to facebook or instagramm directly but all the other means (proxy, tunnels, Tor) work.
2022-04-04T10:15:12 < PaulFertser> AFAIK even fully totalitarian states have some working feedback loops, you can't really occupy the whole country using only that country's resources.
2022-04-04T10:18:38 < benishor> PaulFertser: how come you ended up in russia?
2022-04-04T10:22:48 < ventYl> I guess he was forked there
2022-04-04T10:27:47 < PaulFertser> benishor: yep was born there
2022-04-04T10:29:08 < ventYl> "there"; does it mean, you already emigrated?
2022-04-04T10:29:44 < benishor> PaulFertser: ah, sorry, I had the impression you're an expat in .ru
2022-04-04T10:29:45 < PaulFertser> No, but I guess I should try.
2022-04-04T10:30:48 < ventYl> Aren't precautions already in place?
2022-04-04T10:31:11 < PaulFertser> ventYl: what do you mean?
2022-04-04T10:31:48 < ventYl> PaulFertser: something, that would prevent you from leaving russia. except of ban on flights from/to russia to a bunch of countries
2022-04-04T10:32:09 < ventYl> and inability to get visas
2022-04-04T10:32:18 < PaulFertser> ventYl: no, the authorities seem to be happy with everybody who disagrees leaving.
2022-04-04T10:32:39 < ventYl> interesting move
2022-04-04T10:32:41 < benishor> be it IT people too?
2022-04-04T10:32:55 < benishor> the rumors had it that brainiacs aren't allowed to leave
2022-04-04T10:33:13 < ventYl> I guess, their plan is to confiscate whatever is left behind those who left and feed it to those, which stay
2022-04-04T10:33:40 < PaulFertser> They're trying to make some nice offers to IT people (such as draft exemption, lower taxes etc), but nothing particular so far.
2022-04-04T10:34:01 < PaulFertser> And no measures to make those who want to leave stay.
2022-04-04T10:34:11 < PaulFertser> So far
2022-04-04T10:35:31 < ventYl> interesting, nothing like communism used to be here
2022-04-04T10:36:19 < qyx> let poisoned people leave?
2022-04-04T10:36:32 < PaulFertser> They do not poison that many people.
2022-04-04T10:36:34 < qyx> if you are smart enough to read western propaganda, don't mess with our people
2022-04-04T10:36:43 < qyx> I mean western poisoned people
2022-04-04T10:40:28 < PaulFertser> Ah
2022-04-04T10:41:48 < PaulFertser> Yes, that's the idea. As a sidenote, I'm not happy with western propaganda either. I have an impression fair journalism is rare in your fine countries too.
2022-04-04T10:43:02 < PaulFertser> Also, don't forget russian authorities blocked facebook only after some amount of hate speech was allowed.
2022-04-04T10:44:40 < ventYl> well, yes. that's something which bothers me. how much filteres the information is. it is definitely biased as fuck
2022-04-04T10:45:00 < mawk> on which subject PaulFertser
2022-04-04T10:45:04 < mawk> ukraine reporting? or in generla
2022-04-04T10:45:19 < PaulFertser> mawk: hate speech against russian soldiers and officials.
2022-04-04T10:45:27 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-04-04T10:46:47 < PaulFertser> and I mean it was officially allowed as means for ukrainians to get some relief or something like that.
2022-04-04T10:50:11 < benishor> well, I guess it's safe to say that pretty much all europe hates russia for what it has done
2022-04-04T10:50:19 < benishor> with its "secret military operation"
2022-04-04T10:50:30 < benishor> alas the russian people will pay the price for years to come
2022-04-04T10:51:58 < benishor> "hate speech against russian soldiers and officials." <- exactly, not against russian people, but those who made this thing happen
2022-04-04T10:52:24 < benishor> I wonder how would russians react if the poles were reversed
2022-04-04T10:52:30 < mawk> the soldiers didn't decide to do that
2022-04-04T10:52:43 < mawk> the draft is mandatory, and they were most likely lied to in the beggining
2022-04-04T10:52:44 < benishor> no, but they decided to rape, loot and pilleage
2022-04-04T10:53:01 < benishor> `pillage`
2022-04-04T10:53:04 < ventYl> it even seems that many of them even did not know where they are going and what it will be there like
2022-04-04T10:53:32 < benishor> that's a trait of the mighty russian army which did not change in decades
2022-04-04T10:54:21 < PaulFertser> benishor: allowing hate speeech is akin to allowing corporal punishments or death sentence. It can lead to uncontrollable rise in aggression.
2022-04-04T10:56:01 < benishor> hate speech is one thing, freedom of speech is another one
2022-04-04T10:56:39 < benishor> filtering all the information is akin to 1984
2022-04-04T10:57:09 < PaulFertser> benishor: if hate speech is allowed it's way to easy to go witch hunting.
2022-04-04T10:58:14 < ventYl> deinition of hate speech is rubbery
2022-04-04T10:58:45 < benishor> PaulFertser: not allowing speech different from some individual's is not an alternative
2022-04-04T10:59:09 < benishor> I've lived in an authoritarian regime and it wasn't fun
2022-04-04T10:59:58 < benishor> these sad old men should just realise autocracies are done and move on
2022-04-04T11:00:12 < PaulFertser> benishor: indeed
2022-04-04T11:00:41 < benishor> how else are we going to get to the federation of planets? :)
2022-04-04T11:01:13 < benishor> dictators should be done with, nationalists too, borders should be erased
2022-04-04T11:01:40 < ventYl> I expect brooder future, than federation of planet
2022-04-04T11:02:32 < benishor> TNG is what we should aim for
2022-04-04T11:04:01 < ventYl> it will more likely be something between asimov's robot trilogy / the expanse / babylon 5
2022-04-04T11:05:23 < benishor> why not asimov's empire series?
2022-04-04T11:05:28 < benishor> foundation
2022-04-04T11:05:49 < ventYl> that happens after robots, we're not there yet
2022-04-04T11:06:32 < benishor> I seem to recall daneel was present in both
2022-04-04T11:06:46 < benishor> but you're right
2022-04-04T11:06:56 < ventYl> he is a robot, he lives some 10000 years
2022-04-04T11:07:00 < ventYl> or maybe even longer
2022-04-04T11:07:48 < benishor> "the new and improved arm cortex m100"
2022-04-04T11:07:54 < benishor> under the hood
2022-04-04T11:11:27 < ventYl> after more than 10 years, mysql has a way how to write a trigger which will abort operation without doing voodoo \o/
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2022-04-04T11:20:54 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-04T11:58:17 < catphish> jpa-: i used your style previously, i'm really not sure which is better. i thought this time i might keep thins symmetric around the 50/50 duty cycle
2022-04-04T12:01:26 < catphish> i'm really not certain of the implications, but i feel like generating might work better if all legs are actively switching, even at 0V DC
2022-04-04T12:02:44 < jpa-> i'm not sure it matters for that at all
2022-04-04T12:03:14 < jpa-> but it does affect the common mode voltage, which can have EMI implications; i guess for optimum EMI performance you would want to minimize the harmonics of the common mode voltage
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2022-04-04T12:22:07 < Laurenceb> >britbong school trip
2022-04-04T12:22:19 < Laurenceb> >u go to "Lake district"
2022-04-04T12:22:25 < Laurenceb> >Russian school trip
2022-04-04T12:22:32 < Laurenceb> >you have to invade Ukraine
2022-04-04T12:23:21 < Posterdati> and kill people without a reason, or just because they are brothers
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2022-04-04T13:39:28 < karlp> oops, left ssv5 running energy monitoring over the weekend.
2022-04-04T13:39:34 < karlp> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap spac
2022-04-04T13:39:40 < karlp> at least it didn't take the system down.
2022-04-04T13:40:20 < benishor> change heap size settings?
2022-04-04T13:40:43 < benishor> -Xms and -Xmx iirc
2022-04-04T13:40:55 < karlp> no, I really don't need to,
2022-04-04T13:41:26 < karlp> I didn't actually want to take ~50-60 hours worth of millisecond resolution power data on WIP code.
2022-04-04T13:41:34 < benishor> ooms are some of the java errors most found in nature
2022-04-04T13:42:09 < karlp> NPE #1 surely...
2022-04-04T13:42:26 < benishor> ah yes, sorry
2022-04-04T13:42:32 < benishor> #2 then
2022-04-04T13:42:37 < karlp> sure, I can buy that :)
2022-04-04T13:42:47 < benishor> what are you working on?
2022-04-04T13:42:51 < karlp> stuff
2022-04-04T13:43:02 < benishor> why java?
2022-04-04T13:43:09 < karlp> karlp | oops, left ssv5 running energy monitoring over the weekend.
2022-04-04T13:43:18 < karlp> I'm sure not writing java these days.
2022-04-04T13:43:29 < benishor> nowadays go would perhaps be a better choice
2022-04-04T13:43:36 < karlp> but ssv5, like many IDEs, is eclipse under the hood.
2022-04-04T13:43:56 < benishor> you have my sympathies
2022-04-04T13:44:40 < karlp> it has one feature I'm really missing already in netbeans now, which is that mouse back button does the back navigate properly.
2022-04-04T13:44:57 < karlp> I probably need to poke netbeans more to make it accept that, as the keyboard shortcut for back works.
2022-04-04T13:45:10 < benishor> no intellij? wow
2022-04-04T13:45:53 < benishor> I can't imagine writing java again in a different ide other than idea
2022-04-04T13:46:10 < karlp> you're not reading very well are you.... :)
2022-04-04T13:46:39 < karlp> ssv5 is a java _app_ that crashed, eclipse based...
2022-04-04T13:47:01 < karlp> and it didn't even crash, it caught int internally, said, "shit went wrong, save and exit?" which was nice, it was just an OOM on the console.
2022-04-04T13:47:13 < benishor> ah, silly me, I thought you were writing java stuff in netbeans
2022-04-04T13:47:21 < karlp> no, I write c and c++ in netbeans.
2022-04-04T13:47:40 < karlp> because I'm not paying for clion and hacking cmake and toolchain json configst like you are :)
2022-04-04T13:47:53 < benishor> gave vscode a try?
2022-04-04T13:48:03 < karlp> yes, hate it even more,
2022-04-04T13:48:04 < benishor> it's quite a decent alternative
2022-04-04T13:48:24 < benishor> <karlp> because I'm not paying for clion and hacking cmake and toolchain json configst like you are :)
2022-04-04T13:48:25 < karlp> I find it disgusting how people are so enamoured with the idea of customizing json toolchain files
2022-04-04T13:48:30 < benishor> it ain't stupid if it works :D
2022-04-04T13:48:45 < karlp> if you need handholding to get it working, which you di, it's not "just workign"
2022-04-04T13:49:16 < benishor> well, it works out of the box, save for different compiler flags
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2022-04-04T17:38:37 < catphish> do array indexes have an implicit type?
2022-04-04T17:39:22 < catphish> something weird is happening here: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L55 - i *suspect* it's reading memory from outside the array
2022-04-04T17:42:24 < catphish> fixed by forcing some types: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L55..L57
2022-04-04T17:43:01 < mawk> type of array index should be uintsize_t
2022-04-04T17:43:23 < mawk> sorry size_y
2022-04-04T17:43:27 < mawk> sorry size_t *
2022-04-04T17:43:38 < mawk> catphish
2022-04-04T17:44:47 < catphish> thanks, i think my previous code was casing my array index from uint8_t to size_t, so when subtracting 1 from 0, it was giving -1 instead of 255
2022-04-04T17:45:03 < karlp> you sire? size_t is unsigned,
2022-04-04T17:45:05 < karlp> ssize_t is signed.
2022-04-04T17:45:13 < karlp> were you recasting back to int somewhere or what?
2022-04-04T17:45:18 < karlp> or priting with %d instead of %u?
2022-04-04T17:45:30 < catphish> maybe size_t is larger than 8 bit and it was becoming 0xffff or 0xffffffff
2022-04-04T17:45:47 < catphish> instead of the 0xff i wanted
2022-04-04T17:46:05 < catphish> to clarify the code was: array[index-1] where index is uint8_t
2022-04-04T17:46:18 < karlp> and array was 256 elements long right?
2022-04-04T17:46:21 < catphish> yes
2022-04-04T17:46:37 < catphish> but this didn't work, it frequently returned garbage
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2022-04-04T17:46:57 < karlp> hrm, the "1" is aliteral int, so you might have been getting implicit conversions?
2022-04-04T17:46:59 * karlp shrugs
2022-04-04T17:47:12 < catphish> my guess: it was casting index to size_t before subtracting 1?
2022-04-04T17:47:41 < karlp> was index previously uint8_t or something else?
2022-04-04T17:47:47 < catphish> yes
2022-04-04T17:48:38 < catphish> broken code: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/0deeeec86b73cbbbe814312dfb89c521e830df04/main.c#L55
2022-04-04T17:48:48 < catphish> working code: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L55..L57
2022-04-04T17:49:55 < karlp> do you get the warning I get here? https://godbolt.org/z/sYKGoWzef
2022-04-04T17:50:40 < karlp> return blah[(uint8_t)(index-1)]; "fixes" it? :)
2022-04-04T17:50:48 < catphish> no warnings, but then, your index is always -1
2022-04-04T17:52:49 < catphish> yeah that works :)
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2022-04-04T18:35:54 < karlp> fucking bt sig, removed teh "format types" table from teh standard and made it a separate document
2022-04-04T18:36:13 < karlp> it's a single table with 28 rows.
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2022-04-04T19:22:53 < zyp> could make sense if they want to be able to update it without updating the whole standard
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2022-04-04T19:44:54 < karlp> yeah, but they update it often enough anyway, and this is what covers ~everything
2022-04-04T19:45:03 < karlp> makes no sense to me, it's been in the core spec most of the time
2022-04-04T19:45:12 < karlp> anyway, whatever, just grumbles
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2022-04-04T19:51:48 < karlp> wow, ssv5 just decided to go and start compiling files in a python venv....
2022-04-04T19:51:50 < karlp> ../.env3/lib/python3.9/site-packages/scipy/integrate/tests/_test_multivariate.c:1:10: fatal error: Python.h: No such file or directory
2022-04-04T19:51:57 < karlp> ... wat is it smoking?!
2022-04-04T19:52:49 < jpa-> probably doing "pip install scipy" or similar, and the module includes C code
2022-04-04T19:53:17 < karlp> I hate relying on IDE settings for this sort of stuff so much
2022-04-04T19:53:41 < karlp> it doens't show the .env dir in the project view, so it's pretty non-user visibile :)
2022-04-04T19:54:47 < karlp> simple workaround right now, remove the venv and put it elsewhere...
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2022-04-04T21:06:52 < machinehum> You guys know anyting aboue cross compiling on fedora?
2022-04-04T21:07:22 < jpa-> 1. install cross-compiler 2. cross-compile
2022-04-04T21:07:57 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/raw/xk2ehuE5
2022-04-04T21:07:59 < machinehum> Busted
2022-04-04T21:08:22 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/raw/kc3Yijug
2022-04-04T21:08:27 < machinehum> I've never had a problem like this
2022-04-04T21:08:57 < jpa-> well those are for the host
2022-04-04T21:09:18 < jpa-> does some simple helloworld.c compile with your arm-linux-gnu-gcc?
2022-04-04T21:11:05 < machinehum> Can't find stdio
2022-04-04T21:11:16 < machinehum> That's a good start
2022-04-04T21:11:40 < jpa-> maybe you have installed only compiler but lack some package with libraries and headers?
2022-04-04T21:12:22 < jpa-> google says sudo dnf install gcc-arm-linux-gnu binutils-arm-linux-gnu glibc-arm-linux-gnu
2022-04-04T21:12:56 < jpa-> and gcc-c++-arm-linux-gnu if needed
2022-04-04T21:17:11 < machinehum> I have them all
2022-04-04T21:21:04 < machinehum> Could this be the problem
2022-04-04T21:21:06 < machinehum> [machinehum ~]$ arm-linux-gnu-gcc -print-sysroot
2022-04-04T21:21:08 < machinehum> /usr/arm-linux-gnu/sys-root
2022-04-04T21:29:40 < Steffanx> Musics for mawk : https://youtu.be/dn4ocQdmY2E
2022-04-04T21:37:38 < emeb> so much melted film stock
2022-04-04T21:38:01 < jpa-> machinehum: well, is your sysroot there?
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2022-04-04T21:57:37 < Laurenceb> keeek memetic https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/z-symbol-russland-verbot-101.html
2022-04-04T22:01:54 < mawk> lol Steffanx
2022-04-04T22:01:58 < mawk> not exactly my kind of music
2022-04-04T22:08:28 < Steffanx> Close enough
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2022-04-04T23:35:07 < catphish> this encoder filtering thing is driving me mad, there must be a good way to do it! i believe openinverter does it by calculating an average every 10ms, i still feel like a 10ms moving average would be better, but presumably it'll oscillate more
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2022-04-04T23:45:39 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15J7MQC1a_l2afj39sI32iWsqqSsHSYfV/view?usp=sharing workshop blogs
2022-04-04T23:47:47 -!- Posterdati [~posterdat@user/Posterdati] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-04-04T23:53:17 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KZQ72gJDDXq54HvOX80Z7b12_lLb7zr/view?usp=sharing filler wires go under the tray and other crap goes on top of the tray
2022-04-04T23:55:00 < kakium69> it needs some compartments for burner parts etc. so that those are not inside cardboard box
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2022-04-04T23:59:38 < kakium69> catphish: how is your box?
--- Day changed ti huhti 05 2022
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2022-04-05T00:00:34 < catphish> kakium69: collected it today https://i.imgur.com/uOjrfl4.jpg
2022-04-05T00:01:17 < catphish> the inside dimension are much smaller than expected, it's used 100% of my tolerance, but the batteries do fit
2022-04-05T00:02:05 < kakium69> is that stainless?
2022-04-05T00:02:23 < catphish> kakium69: no, i'll paint it
2022-04-05T00:02:50 < kakium69> welder did grate jobb
2022-04-05T00:03:16 < kakium69> it looks somewhat straight
2022-04-05T00:03:55 < kakium69> such boxes tend to bend when welded
2022-04-05T00:04:13 < catphish> ah ok, well this one does appear straight :)
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2022-04-05T00:05:05 < catphish> now i just need to see if i can install all the relays and fuses
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2022-04-05T00:08:56 < kakium69> measure 5 times
2022-04-05T00:09:01 < kakium69> cut twice
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2022-04-05T00:29:53 < machinehum> jpa-: What is sysroot
2022-04-05T00:29:57 < machinehum> I guess I can just google it
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2022-04-05T00:51:01 < catphish> kakium69: i didn't cut, i only measured :)
2022-04-05T00:51:56 < catphish> i'll compare the final measurements to my specs, i assume the manufacturing process wasn't done in the exact manner my CAD software assumed, making it a couple of mm smaller
2022-04-05T00:54:35 < qyx> catphish: 2mm steel?
2022-04-05T00:55:37 < catphish> qyx: 1.5mm
2022-04-05T00:56:34 < catphish> i intend to reinforce it with angle steel where space allows
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2022-04-05T01:03:51 < Mangy_Dog> https://hackaday.io/project/184711-mainframe-compute-observator/log/204605-pcb-mostly-done
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2022-04-05T01:05:19 < Steffanx> Nice paste job Mangy_Dog :D
2022-04-05T01:05:24 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2022-04-05T01:06:58 < catphish> what does that do?
2022-04-05T01:07:29 < Mangy_Dog> best check the main io project but.... its a hardware monitor
2022-04-05T01:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> or will be
2022-04-05T01:07:50 < catphish> QFN, brave :)
2022-04-05T01:08:25 < catphish> also, what happened to the bottom one? https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/7190751649109480071.jfif
2022-04-05T01:08:36 < Mangy_Dog> bad solder paste
2022-04-05T01:08:39 < catphish> looks a little melted :)
2022-04-05T01:08:45 < Mangy_Dog> na thats just it
2022-04-05T01:08:48 < Mangy_Dog> it didnt melt
2022-04-05T01:08:55 < Mangy_Dog> just crusted up
2022-04-05T01:08:58 < catphish> ah
2022-04-05T01:09:21 < catphish> looks like you heated it until the PCB burned
2022-04-05T01:09:25 < Mangy_Dog> na
2022-04-05T01:09:56 < catphish> well, top one looks good :)
2022-04-05T01:12:32 < Mangy_Dog> heh thanks
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2022-04-05T01:55:09 < catphish> what possessed ST to make STM32s without FPUs?
2022-04-05T01:56:11 < kakium69> all of them?
2022-04-05T01:56:41 < qyx> it is a question like why did they made radio receivers with vacuum tubes?
2022-04-05T01:56:58 < kakium69> oh yes.. available on M4 and M7 platforms
2022-04-05T01:57:17 < specing> catphish: chip shortage, no FPU for you
2022-04-05T01:57:19 < qyx> catphish: it is a punishment for using f103
2022-04-05T01:57:54 < kakium69> who expects f103 to have FPU?
2022-04-05T01:58:19 < catphish> kakium69: but why not?
2022-04-05T01:58:36 < catphish> is the ARM licence for a slightly better core really significant?
2022-04-05T01:58:43 < kakium69> it adds silicon too
2022-04-05T01:59:07 < kakium69> also it's like in any product portfolio
2022-04-05T01:59:07 < catphish> i guess more transistors = lower yield, it all adds to cost
2022-04-05T01:59:07 < qyx> did you consider there simply was not M4 with FPU when F103 was designed?
2022-04-05T01:59:32 < catphish> qyx: was there not? that woudl explain it
2022-04-05T01:59:44 < qyx> it is an extraordinary old piece of shit
2022-04-05T01:59:45 < kakium69> you don't give all features in the cheapest model in your product portfolio
2022-04-05T01:59:52 < qyx> like from 2009 or so?
2022-04-05T01:59:54 < qyx> or 2010
2022-04-05T02:00:13 < kakium69> that ofc ^
2022-04-05T02:00:51 < kakium69> stuff used to be arm9 just before that
2022-04-05T02:01:25 < catphish> i just dislike trying to be sparing with floating point operations :)
2022-04-05T02:01:40 < qyx> or arm7tdmi
2022-04-05T02:02:38 < kakium69> interesting cortex m3 was first ofc but it was released 2004!
2022-04-05T02:03:30 < kakium69> The Cortex-M4 / M7 / M33 / M35P / M55 cores have an FPU silicon option, and when included in the silicon these cores are sometimes known as "Cortex-Mx with FPU" or "Cortex-MxF", where 'x' is the core variant.
2022-04-05T02:04:03 < kakium69> is there even IP for FPU unit for m3?
2022-04-05T02:04:14 < qyx> idk, wasn't the first one M1?
2022-04-05T02:04:20 < kakium69> nope
2022-04-05T02:04:23 < qyx> available as vhdl IP only
2022-04-05T02:04:27 < qyx> or was it later?
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2022-04-05T02:04:34 < kakium69> M1 2007
2022-04-05T02:04:43 < kakium69> I don't know any M1 chip
2022-04-05T02:05:02 < qyx> yeah it was not meant to be sold as standalone chips
2022-04-05T02:05:12 < kakium69> aah
2022-04-05T02:05:14 < qyx> The Cortex-M1 is an optimized core especially designed to be loaded into FPGA chips.
2022-04-05T02:05:24 < kakium69> yes I remember now
2022-04-05T02:08:40 < kakium69> have some vendors bolted on FPU to M3 mcu?
2022-04-05T02:09:15 < kakium69> maybe as a "peripheral"
2022-04-05T02:14:20 < kakium69> if you need heavy maths use M4
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2022-04-05T02:42:39 < kakium69> catphish: could the specific problem be tackled by using LUT?
2022-04-05T02:43:01 < kakium69> with or without interpolation
2022-04-05T02:43:30 < catphish> kakium69: i don't think so
2022-04-05T02:44:55 < catphish> it's not a big problem, i can afford a few software floating point operations, it's just annoying that i've been trying to avoid them, and things get really messy mixing fixed and floating point
2022-04-05T02:47:48 < qyx> one moment in my life I just decided to forget about fixed point math and FPU-less MCUs
2022-04-05T02:48:47 < catphish> qyx: me too, that was about 4 years ago
2022-04-05T02:48:52 < catphish> this is why i'm annoyed.
2022-04-05T02:49:14 < catphish> i'm not redesigning this hardware though :)
2022-04-05T02:54:11 < kakium69> I have never used MCU with FPU
2022-04-05T02:54:59 < kakium69> I have some NXP development board that has LPC4xxx as debugger probe though
2022-04-05T02:55:40 < kakium69> but the target is some rather tiny M3
2022-04-05T02:57:22 < catphish> it was a huge joy to learn how to enable FPU in my L4 and stop worrying
2022-04-05T02:58:53 < mawk> why do you need floating point
2022-04-05T02:58:58 < mawk> you decided to try what I said?
2022-04-05T02:59:23 < mawk> clock out the sine as fast as possible, adjusting the pulsation given what encoder says
2022-04-05T03:04:10 < mawk> at each time step you clock out sin(ωt) with t the current time in seconds, ω the pulsation in rad/s
2022-04-05T03:06:14 < kakium69> I bet they flew to moon without floating points
2022-04-05T03:06:56 < mawk> by miracle
2022-04-05T03:07:09 < kakium69> actually
2022-04-05T03:07:16 < catphish> mawk: how are you proposing i get rad/s, that's the challenge here
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2022-04-05T03:07:32 < mawk> catphish that's the encoder that tells you
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2022-04-05T03:07:46 < mawk> ω is 2π × the frequency given by encoder
2022-04-05T03:07:50 < catphish> mawk: if only it gave such a useful output
2022-04-05T03:07:53 < kakium69> IBM mainframes back on earth did the heavy lifting
2022-04-05T03:08:00 < catphish> what it gives are just pulses :)
2022-04-05T03:08:09 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-05T03:08:19 < mawk> but you can deduce the frequency from it
2022-04-05T03:08:41 < mawk> how many pulses per full rotation do you have?
2022-04-05T03:08:45 < catphish> mawk: how would *you* do that? because i've spent a lot of time wondering
2022-04-05T03:09:10 < kakium69> fraction
2022-04-05T03:09:11 < mawk> let's say N pulses for a 2Ï€ rotation
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2022-04-05T03:09:31 < catphish> there are 72 edges per sine wave revolution
2022-04-05T03:09:47 < mawk> so 72 to do a full 360° turn
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2022-04-05T03:09:54 < mawk> that's a sine period
2022-04-05T03:09:55 < catphish> correct
2022-04-05T03:10:15 < mawk> I'm running out of letter
2022-04-05T03:10:20 < mawk> let's use greek
2022-04-05T03:11:04 < catphish> the other piece of data that's relevant is the PWM frequency, which is 17.5kHz
2022-04-05T03:11:15 < mawk> you take a time step τ, and count how many pulses during that time step, then your pulsation is (2π/72 × n)/τ
2022-04-05T03:11:27 < catphish> what time step would you propose?
2022-04-05T03:11:50 < mawk> something larger than the frequency at which the encoder updates
2022-04-05T03:11:57 < mawk> so you don't get discontinuous jumps
2022-04-05T03:12:09 < mawk> but not too large so that the sinewave lags behind the true speed
2022-04-05T03:12:23 < mawk> so maybe 2 or 3 times the encoder update frequency
2022-04-05T03:12:32 < catphish> *nod* the encoder doesn't have a fixed frequency though
2022-04-05T03:12:38 < mawk> you said you usually had 0 or 1 pulse per update
2022-04-05T03:12:39 < catphish> it output pulses as they happen
2022-04-05T03:13:01 < mawk> yeah
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2022-04-05T03:13:23 < catphish> i have a PWM frequency, 17kHz, and yes, usually there will be 0-1 pulses per pwm period
2022-04-05T03:13:27 < mawk> well the time step Ï„ is just a disguised way of doing a low pass filter, you average the pulses over some time
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2022-04-05T03:13:58 < catphish> my current approach is to take a moving average over the previous 255 PWM periods
2022-04-05T03:14:08 < mawk> so you can take Ï„ = 3/(17000) for instance
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2022-04-05T03:14:25 < catphish> so essentially, how many encoder pulses have there been in 255/17500
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2022-04-05T03:14:39 < mawk> or 200 μs more or less
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2022-04-05T03:14:56 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-05T03:15:01 < catphish> i pushed that number right up to 14ms
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2022-04-05T03:15:43 < catphish> but it sounds like we agree on the approach, i was unsure of a moving average vs dscrete periods
2022-04-05T03:15:51 < catphish> but i think i like the moving average
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2022-04-05T03:16:18 < catphish> so i take the total rotation over the last 255 periods, divide by 255, and move the field by that distance
2022-04-05T03:16:39 < catphish> and all that, so far, does not require any floating points :)
2022-04-05T03:17:09 < kakium69> make it 256 periods
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2022-04-05T03:18:11 < catphish> kakium69: there's really no benefit to 256 periods, and a big downside that it would need a 257 element array
2022-04-05T03:18:23 < catphish> code here by the way: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c#L51
2022-04-05T03:18:45 < kakium69> why need 257 element array?
2022-04-05T03:19:25 < catphish> actually, if i did the calculation before appending to the array, i'd only need 256 previous values
2022-04-05T03:20:02 < kakium69> div by 256 becomes a bitshift
2022-04-05T03:20:13 < kakium69> by compiler
2022-04-05T03:20:15 < catphish> yeah, i don't actually divide by 256 though
2022-04-05T03:21:00 < mawk> if you do an exponential average you don't need to store the last 256 samp'es
2022-04-05T03:21:24 < catphish> storing 256 values doesn't really cost anything
2022-04-05T03:21:37 < mawk> well it's more complicated
2022-04-05T03:21:42 < mawk> you have to use a ring buffer
2022-04-05T03:21:51 < catphish> which i do
2022-04-05T03:21:52 < mawk> to store the last 256 values at all times
2022-04-05T03:21:55 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-05T03:22:06 < mawk> an exponential average you store 1 value, the current average
2022-04-05T03:22:42 < catphish> anyway, i don't really divide by 255 either, i actually multiply, in order to get a value that causes one full rotation to equal 2^32
2022-04-05T03:23:06 < mawk> and at each timestep you do s ↠βs + x with x the new value
2022-04-05T03:23:17 < mawk> then your average is s/(1-β)
2022-04-05T03:23:43 < catphish> what is β
2022-04-05T03:23:55 < mawk> the decay rate of your exponential average
2022-04-05T03:24:04 < catphish> does this have *any* benefit over the ring buffer though?
2022-04-05T03:24:11 < mawk> the smaller it is, the less weight you give to old values
2022-04-05T03:24:33 < mawk> well it prioritizes new values, so it has a smaller reaction time than using a flat average
2022-04-05T03:24:37 < mawk> it's a weighted average
2022-04-05T03:24:52 < mawk> but a special kind of weighted average made to be very easy to calculate
2022-04-05T03:25:06 < mawk> requiring only one accumulator
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2022-04-05T03:26:13 < mawk> when x is constant you get s = (1+β+β²+…)x = x/(1-β), so when you do (1-β)s you get the average
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2022-04-05T03:28:42 < catphish> so, in practical terms... avg = avg * 256 / 255 + new_value; ?
2022-04-05T03:28:49 < mawk> you can also do avg ↠β*avg+ (1-β)x
2022-04-05T03:28:53 < mawk> to skip the s business
2022-04-05T03:28:59 < catphish> i mean: avg = avg * 255 / 256 + new_value; ?
2022-04-05T03:29:03 < mawk> then you directly get the average
2022-04-05T03:29:27 < catphish> this is very mathsy and not very C :(
2022-04-05T03:29:58 < mawk> well avg = avg * (255.0/256.0) + (1.0-255.0/256.0) * x
2022-04-05T03:30:49 < catphish> hurray for floating point units :)
2022-04-05T03:31:59 < mawk> but 255.0/256.0 is maybe too close to 1
2022-04-05T03:32:12 < catphish> i do quite like the idea anyway
2022-04-05T03:32:46 < catphish> the worry is that because the encoder is so course, each pulse has an excessive immediate impact
2022-04-05T03:33:06 < mawk> yeah you can tweak β for that
2022-04-05T03:33:51 < catphish> i believe that 10ms is a reasonable period (175 periods)
2022-04-05T03:34:42 < catphish> ie i think that's how long i want each pulse to be distributed over
2022-04-05T03:35:10 < catphish> i realise with an infinite tail like this there's no such exact number
2022-04-05T03:35:23 < catphish> but i can model it in a spreadsheet
2022-04-05T03:35:43 < mawk> you can compute it
2022-04-05T03:36:35 < catphish> the incumbant software just takes the total that have accumulated every 10ms, divides it by 10ms, and uses that average for the next 10ms
2022-04-05T03:36:38 < catphish> but i feel i can do better
2022-04-05T03:37:05 < mawk> let's say the first 256 samples should old 50% of the weight, and all the other samples the remaining 50%, that means we want (1-β)(1+β+β²+…+β^256) = 50%, then 1-β^(256+1) = 50%, so ln(1-50%)/ln(β) = 256+1 so β = exp(ln(1-50%)/(256+1))
2022-04-05T03:37:16 < mawk> you can plug the numbers you want in the final formula
2022-04-05T03:37:20 < mawk> instead of 256 and 50%
2022-04-05T03:38:15 < mawk> instead of exp and ln we can use nth roots, it's maybe easier to understand
2022-04-05T03:38:33 < mawk> like (1-50%)^(1/257)
2022-04-05T03:38:42 < mawk> you can type it in python
2022-04-05T03:38:53 < mawk> (1-50/100)**(1/(256+1))
2022-04-05T03:39:17 < mawk> that makes β = 0.99730656
2022-04-05T03:40:58 < mawk> with such average you update it at each encoder tick, if there are no new pulses you use a value of 0 and still compute the average
2022-04-05T03:41:18 < catphish> that's simple enough, i probably want around 0.995
2022-04-05T03:41:18 < mawk> so you don't have to wait 10ms, you can update the frequency in realtime
2022-04-05T03:42:18 < catphish> and the calculation is just avg = avg * β + new_value * (1-β) ?
2022-04-05T03:42:33 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-05T03:44:12 < mawk> actually it should be (1-50%)^(1/256) for the 256 newest samples holding 50% of the weight, but it's almost the same result anyway
2022-04-05T03:44:37 < mawk> the newest sample has weight 1-β, the two newest samples have weight 1-β², and so on
2022-04-05T03:45:29 < mawk> so with β = 0.995 that means only 0.5% of the new average is due to the latest sample
2022-04-05T03:45:37 < mawk> which makes it resistant to abrupt changes
2022-04-05T03:46:07 < catphish> does the sum of this sequence equal the sum of the inputs?
2022-04-05T03:46:16 < catphish> (eventually)
2022-04-05T03:46:22 < mawk> what do you mean?
2022-04-05T03:46:45 < catphish> i mean, over time, does the sum of the outputs equal the sum of the inputs?
2022-04-05T03:46:45 < mawk> if the input is constant, avg will tend towards the input yes
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2022-04-05T03:47:26 < mawk> I don't get what you mean by sum of the outputs, the average is a sum in itself already
2022-04-05T03:47:53 < mawk> a weighted sum, so it's not equal to the sum of the input; each entry has a different weight
2022-04-05T03:48:52 < mawk> the average has units of pulses per second, it represents a smoothed value of how many pulses we have during one encoder sampling period
2022-04-05T03:49:10 < catphish> what i mean is: if you added all the input value, and the average at easy step, would the total be the same?
2022-04-05T03:49:21 < catphish> i think the answer is yes, since is it "an average"
2022-04-05T03:49:47 < catphish> (over a long period of time)
2022-04-05T03:50:45 < mawk> I'm not sure that's true
2022-04-05T03:50:48 < catphish> imagine you put in 1,2,1,2,1,2 forever, i would want the outputs to sum to 1.5 * n, if that makes sense
2022-04-05T03:51:07 < mawk> if you add all the inputs it's like having n times the arithmetic average of all the inputs
2022-04-05T03:51:24 < catphish> correct
2022-04-05T03:51:32 < mawk> but the average you compute at each step doesn't take into account future inputs
2022-04-05T03:52:05 < catphish> and would that be the same as the arithmetic average of the "outputs", ie the value after each step
2022-04-05T03:52:46 < catphish> the reason this matters is that ultimately what i'm doing here is measuring the speed of an input shaft, and using it to drive an output magnetic field, and the actual goal is for them to spin at the same speed
2022-04-05T03:53:15 < catphish> so the overall rotation of each should be the same over a large number of iterations
2022-04-05T03:53:43 < mawk> what happens if it's not the case?
2022-04-05T03:53:48 < mawk> won't it correct by itself?
2022-04-05T03:53:52 < catphish> well, actually, yes
2022-04-05T03:54:06 < catphish> what's more important is that they're as close as possible at any instant
2022-04-05T03:54:13 < mawk> even with an arithmetic average, if you add all the average together you don't recover the sum of inputs
2022-04-05T03:54:26 < mawk> you get some weird thing instead
2022-04-05T03:54:55 < catphish> anyway, it's probably not important
2022-04-05T03:54:59 < mawk> you can implement checkpoints, like once you made a full rotation you restart the sinewave from zero
2022-04-05T03:55:17 < mawk> once you get 72 encoder steps you start the sine wave back from 0
2022-04-05T03:55:19 < catphish> nah, it'll self corrct anyway
2022-04-05T03:55:37 < catphish> it's the velocity that matters
2022-04-05T03:55:47 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-05T03:55:55 < mawk> then it should be fine
2022-04-05T03:56:25 < mawk> I have to go, but you can ask me tomorrow if you have questions about it
2022-04-05T03:56:37 < mawk> it's called exponential moving average if you want to google it
2022-04-05T03:56:42 < catphish> thanks for your help, i'll simulate and implement this
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2022-04-05T16:19:14 < karlp> cute, mic33030 buck has integreated inductor, runs at 8Mhz
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2022-04-05T17:49:21 < catphish> oh my god, this design has no pull-downs between the STM32 and the IGBT drivers, when the chip boots, the IOs are floating and the all conduct
2022-04-05T17:51:35 < Steffanx> Hah I just heard my manager complain about this just an hour ago.
2022-04-05T17:51:42 < Steffanx> Or something similar at least
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2022-04-05T18:19:12 < catphish> https://github.com/damienmaguire/Tesla-Front-Drive-Unit/issues/7
2022-04-05T18:19:49 < catphish> this scares me quite a lot, i guess i want to get the MCU into a stats where those pins are driven low ASAP at boot
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2022-04-05T18:40:12 < catphish> and a non 5v tolerant input is connected to a 5v encoder, yay
2022-04-05T18:40:18 < catphish> but i guess it works
2022-04-05T19:03:08 < srk> programmable hall effect ics, oO
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2022-04-05T19:31:19 < Steffanx> https://github.com/damienmaguire/Tesla-Front-Drive-Unit/issues/3 maybe that scares me even more catphish
2022-04-05T19:31:47 < Steffanx> When a GND symbol isn't GND...
2022-04-05T19:32:40 < catphish> lol
2022-04-05T19:32:47 < Steffanx> Says something about the quality of the entire work imho
2022-04-05T19:32:57 < catphish> it's not important, just the main logic supply :)
2022-04-05T19:33:25 < catphish> also, this is v6! that means this is the 6th attempt at this
2022-04-05T19:33:52 < catphish> it's also worth noting that people are driving cars powered by this device :)
2022-04-05T19:33:56 < emeb> some folks learn more slowly than others.
2022-04-05T19:35:17 < catphish> i don't want to be too offensive about open sores stuff
2022-04-05T19:35:32 < Steffanx> It's only driving a Tesla motor...
2022-04-05T19:35:48 < Steffanx> What can go wrong
2022-04-05T19:35:51 < jpa-> catphish: why are they using 74HCT573 as the PWM driver anyway? using a latch as a buffer seems weeeird
2022-04-05T19:36:05 < catphish> it is worth noting that this PCB costs 350 euros + VAT
2022-04-05T19:36:26 < Steffanx> I hope catphish adds an emergency shutdown and proper brakes
2022-04-05T19:36:44 < catphish> i don't know why they're using that latch, it's just a buffer so i guess literally anything would have worked
2022-04-05T19:37:31 < Steffanx> I suddenly understand why this hobbying isn't allowed here 😋
2022-04-05T19:37:41 < catphish> Steffanx: quit
2022-04-05T19:37:42 < catphish> *quite
2022-04-05T19:37:48 < Steffanx> OK the hobbying is allowed, but the car isn't allowed on the road.
2022-04-05T19:38:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: you can't get DIY cars approved in .nl?
2022-04-05T19:38:23 < catphish> i assume you can, just takes a proper check
2022-04-05T19:39:05 < jpa-> yeah, here it is relatively simple if the structural / safety parts of the car like chassis and brakes are not modified
2022-04-05T19:39:30 < catphish> there's no process here really, as long as the structure isn't modified
2022-04-05T19:39:44 < catphish> you can do what you like, as long as it still passes annual safety inspection
2022-04-05T19:40:54 < Steffanx> A EV conversion like catphish is doing is hard to get approved apparently . EMC tests, build your car with a recognised organisation/company etc.
2022-04-05T19:41:07 < catphish> i have added a !shutdown pin for now, which kills the PWM at the next cycle if it's pulled :)
2022-04-05T19:41:23 < Steffanx> Which can also be a university thats into car mechanics
2022-04-05T19:41:27 < catphish> Steffanx: surely the law can't name people who are allowed to build them? if it passes, it passes, right?
2022-04-05T19:41:55 < Steffanx> But then it's no longer hobbying
2022-04-05T19:42:09 < Steffanx> I also don't know about that.
2022-04-05T19:42:14 < qyx> catphish: feel free to be offensive
2022-04-05T19:42:46 < catphish> here's mine :) https://i.imgur.com/4kg9wPO.jpg
2022-04-05T19:43:49 < catphish> anyway, i think i'm now at the point where i can connect some power and a motor to it and see what happens
2022-04-05T19:44:22 < catphish> will find out tomorrow
2022-04-05T19:44:39 < Steffanx> Even when I have that much space I could not place my components that far apart.
2022-04-05T19:44:48 < Steffanx> Had*
2022-04-05T19:44:51 < catphish> lol
2022-04-05T19:44:59 < qyx> I remember a similar project with similarly weird routing, "oh god no SMD"
2022-04-05T19:46:23 < qyx> and whenever I see tagconnect...
2022-04-05T19:53:33 < Steffanx> Found a job for catphish https://www.ukaht.org/latest-news/2022/we-re-recruiting-port-lockroy
2022-04-05T19:54:01 < Steffanx> Or maybe englishman. He always wanted to be mailman
2022-04-05T19:56:13 < BrainDamage> here you can do wtf you want to the car, but if you do anything diy you need to submit the car for testing in the public registry
2022-04-05T19:57:38 < BrainDamage> catphish: out of curiosity, is the board always powered even when the vehicle is nominally shut down?
2022-04-05T20:04:18 < catphish> BrainDamage: no
2022-04-05T20:04:49 < catphish> BrainDamage: it draws a substantial amount of power even when it's not drivng the IGBTs, it's only powered when the vehicle is started
2022-04-05T20:07:14 < BrainDamage> :s
2022-04-05T20:07:43 < BrainDamage> so each turn on is a russian roulette for igbt latch up
2022-04-05T20:08:25 < catphish> BrainDamage: not quite, each turn on it's guaranteed the IGBTs will go short circuit until the outputs are configured
2022-04-05T20:08:42 < catphish> BrainDamage: the trick is not to apply high voltage until that's happened
2022-04-05T20:09:25 < catphish> generally, this board also controls the high voltage relays, to the period of shorting the IGBTs isn't a problem, because the relays won't apply HV until the setup is complete
2022-04-05T20:12:02 < jpa-> can't enable watchdog on the STM32 though, because reset would cause explosion? :)
2022-04-05T20:12:54 < catphish> correct
2022-04-05T20:13:48 < catphish> the very fact that the chip going *inactive* would cause an explosion is enough to seriously question using this board
2022-04-05T20:15:46 < Steffanx> So patch the pull downs in for now
2022-04-05T20:16:50 < catphish> that's a lot of hacky mess :(
2022-04-05T20:18:04 < jpa-> bluewire it neatly
2022-04-05T20:18:11 < jpa-> seems there is ton of space
2022-04-05T20:18:27 < jpa-> and the pulldowns being to GND you can easily carve out nice places to mount them
2022-04-05T20:19:03 < kakium69> evenings haxors
2022-04-05T20:23:08 < catphish> jpa-: well perhaps, i'm not sure whether i have the skill to get 6 bodge wires and 6 resistors installed to automotive standard
2022-04-05T20:23:31 < catphish> though hot glue cures all
2022-04-05T20:24:09 < PaulFertser> Someone had interesting experience with doing similar thing recently.
2022-04-05T20:24:12 < qyx> a china's snot
2022-04-05T20:24:19 < qyx> aka hot glue
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2022-04-05T21:20:43 < mawk> I'm at the dutch A2 exam Steffanx
2022-04-05T21:20:47 < mawk> I'm in the exam room
2022-04-05T21:21:06 < mawk> I forgot all vocabulary the second I entered the room, I forgot how to say gebruiken
2022-04-05T21:21:11 < mawk> and a bunch of other stuff
2022-04-05T21:21:25 < mawk> so I made weird sentences that avoid it
2022-04-05T21:22:33 < qyx> you should better learn russian
2022-04-05T21:24:18 < mawk> :(
2022-04-05T21:24:28 < mawk> I was trying to learn russian at some point
2022-04-05T21:24:34 < mawk> for no reason whatsoever
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2022-04-05T21:24:56 < mawk> but then the reason why went away so I stopped
2022-04-05T21:25:11 < catphish> this happens sometimes :)
2022-04-05T21:25:13 < catphish> i'm back :)
2022-04-05T21:26:16 < mawk> what happens sometimes
2022-04-05T21:26:23 < mawk> reasons to learn russian going away?
2022-04-05T21:33:03 < Steffanx> How's the Ukrainian gf mawk?
2022-04-05T21:33:29 < mawk> alive
2022-04-05T21:34:49 < Steffanx> Alright
2022-04-05T21:35:31 < Steffanx> So will you pass de examen mawk?
2022-04-05T21:40:59 < catphish> mawk: circumstances changing and meaning you don't have to do things any more happens sometimes :)
2022-04-05T21:41:34 < catphish> coverage of the war in ukraine has made me realise that ukranian women are, on average, dramatically more attractive than those in the uk
2022-04-05T21:41:52 < catphish> so yay for ukranian gf, and hope she stays alive!
2022-04-05T21:47:27 < specing> is she not with you yet, mawk ? women aren't banned from leaving
2022-04-05T21:51:36 < qyx> who, irina?
2022-04-05T21:52:04 < qyx> does she speak .ru?
2022-04-05T22:00:45 < Steffanx> specing mawk still has a woman in his life, he cant kick her out
2022-04-05T22:01:03 < Steffanx> maybe you can take her in
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2022-04-05T22:02:38 < specing> Steffanx: ah, lol
2022-04-05T22:02:45 < PaulFertser> Many ukrainians speak ru fluently.
2022-04-05T22:04:13 -!- toulene [~toulene@user/toulene] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-04-05T22:04:24 < PaulFertser> And among them some have difficulties speaking (sometimes even understanding) proper Ukrainian.
2022-04-05T22:04:33 < qyx> catphish: re ua women, yeah
2022-04-05T22:08:08 < emeb> Anyone know anything about a recent GDB update breaking stuff in STM32?
2022-04-05T22:15:09 < catphish> emeb: what kind of stuff?
2022-04-05T22:16:15 < emeb> Buddy of mine mentioned that he uses a VSC plugin for doing STM32 coding. The plugin wraps up GDB + OOCD for source-level debugging. After a recent GDB update that all broke.
2022-04-05T22:16:47 < emeb> He says that some googling suggested that the GDB update was borked
2022-04-05T22:16:52 < mawk> yes Steffanx it's just finished now
2022-04-05T22:17:06 < mawk> I will obviously pass
2022-04-05T22:23:30 < Xogium> well, now that was a bad day… I woke up today near totally deaf in one ear. First time this happens and is so bad. I couldn't hear espeak properly on that side, okay make that not at all actually. Low frequencies were the only thing I could hear, mid were next to none and high, well. What high ?
2022-04-05T22:23:42 < Xogium> god that's actually depressing me
2022-04-05T22:24:01 < qyx> Xogium: is that the meniere?
2022-04-05T22:24:09 < Xogium> prolly
2022-04-05T22:24:10 < emeb> Xogium: Happened to me a few times a while back.
2022-04-05T22:24:20 < emeb> I got over it in a couple weeks.
2022-04-05T22:24:29 < emeb> Hasn't happened in a while.
2022-04-05T22:24:59 < Xogium> that also completely fucked up my balance, hah. Oh and I had to actually use my cane in the house to avoid running into walls
2022-04-05T22:25:13 < Xogium> that's kind of embarrassing
2022-04-05T22:25:14 < emeb> yep - I ran into walls a few times too.
2022-04-05T22:26:15 < emeb> This happened back when I was working @ Intel and traveling a lot, under more stress than usual. Hasn't happened since I quit there. :P
2022-04-05T22:26:28 < Xogium> damn, you,re lucky
2022-04-05T22:26:39 < Xogium> I just hope it will be less intensive tomorrow
2022-04-05T22:27:30 < Xogium> actually have to really strain to make out what espeak is saying
2022-04-05T22:28:11 < BrainDamage> can't you pitch shift it to a better audibile range? it'll sound like shit but it should be more understandable
2022-04-05T22:28:29 < Xogium> well… at least the only good thing is that I'm not driven mad hearing my own heartbeat all the damn time
2022-04-05T22:29:07 < Xogium> BrainDamage: hmm the frequencies don't go low enough
2022-04-05T22:29:21 < Xogium> it stays mostly within the range of human voice
2022-04-05T22:30:56 < Xogium> I can mostly notice bass in musics and the lower frequencies of guitars and things like that, but voice would have to be exceptionally deep like that bass guy from the voca people
2022-04-05T22:32:05 < Xogium> espeak is also lacking bass in general
2022-04-05T22:32:40 < Xogium> so it changes the voice pitch i.e: the tone, but it doesn't really make up for additional bass
2022-04-05T22:33:16 < qyx> I have an NB-IOT modem accessible from linux using a custom interface, now i want it to connect to ModemManager or chat/ppp or whatever, any ideas?
2022-04-05T22:34:19 < qyx> one possibility I know about is to do a dev/pts pair and run ModemManager on the PTS, if that's even possible
2022-04-05T22:35:11 < qyx> basically I need a FUSE for serial devices
2022-04-05T22:35:28 < Xogium> must say, I've never actually toyed with a modem yet
2022-04-05T22:36:07 < qyx> on socat!
2022-04-05T22:36:46 < qyx> socat can apparently create a PTY device
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2022-04-05T23:51:53 < Laurenceb> anyone know what could cause the "Unknown MCU found on target" error in ST-Link?
2022-04-05T23:54:06 < upgrdman> Laurenceb, swo/sck floating?
2022-04-05T23:54:31 < upgrdman> err, data and clock, whatever they're called
2022-04-05T23:54:59 < upgrdman> i think i got a similar error years ago when my LQFP wasn't properly soldered on
2022-04-05T23:55:26 < Laurenceb> dont get the error with Cube IDE
2022-04-05T23:55:37 < Laurenceb> only with command line ST-LINK
2022-04-05T23:57:04 < upgrdman> o
--- Day changed ke huhti 06 2022
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2022-04-06T00:42:48 < karlp> Steffanx: it's a fucking ld1117 in that tesla board issue 3 too, so fuck those legacy cunts
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2022-04-06T00:45:59 < catphish> this is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA
2022-04-06T00:48:19 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-06T00:49:35 < kakium69> 2022-03-29T04:04:32 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA innovations
2022-04-06T00:49:36 < kakium69> 2022-03-29T15:44:40 < karlp> this is pretty rad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA
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2022-04-06T00:59:25 < kakium69> graphical visualization is rather impressive
2022-04-06T01:10:45 < englishman> lm1117 in a tesla?
2022-04-06T01:10:53 < englishman> model s?
2022-04-06T01:14:26 < qyx> which reminds me
2022-04-06T01:14:36 < qyx> karlp: hows your lm1117 mug heater?
2022-04-06T01:15:10 < englishman> heh
2022-04-06T01:15:24 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onDZLKie1Fg
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2022-04-06T01:19:41 < Laurenceb> Putin confirmed as beta uprising
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2022-04-06T01:19:53 < Laurenceb> another meme has become real
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2022-04-06T01:24:26 < Laurenceb> Incel army on the rampage
2022-04-06T01:29:54 < kakium69> in finnish chan culture there is thing called "hikkykosto"
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2022-04-06T01:32:54 < kakium69> hikikomori's revenge
2022-04-06T01:33:48 < catphish> kakium69: lol seems i'm late to the party
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2022-04-06T02:45:22 < catphish> kakium69: https://i.imgur.com/HyQAsp5.jpg
2022-04-06T02:46:23 < catphish> i'd say the box has actually worked out about 1mm too small in terms of front to rear, but the batteries do go in, tightly
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2022-04-06T02:47:26 < catphish> the main challenge now is making it safe to lift with the batteries in, as right now the bottom will be much too bendy
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2022-04-06T02:49:04 < catphish> i will offer it up to the car first and see how much clearance i have before making a decision about how to reinforce it
2022-04-06T02:49:30 < catphish> the good news is that the gaps down each side are large enough to get my hands in to install the electronics
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2022-04-06T06:53:52 < steve_> has anyone use a STM32WB? used a bootloader on it?
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2022-04-06T11:02:39 < Steffanx> Lol karlp
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2022-04-06T12:03:10 < karlp> qyx: haven't gotten it made yet, was going to add it to the next order I'm doing for other stuff
2022-04-06T12:03:20 < karlp> expected that to have been a few weeks ago, but did some changes...
2022-04-06T12:04:33 < karlp> englishman: ld1117 in that project: https://github.com/damienmaguire/Tesla-Front-Drive-Unit/issues/3
2022-04-06T12:05:07 < karlp> but I mean, it's made in design spark, so it must be pro...
2022-04-06T12:05:11 < ventYl> karlp: it seems, that my RTOS allowed me to fuck up, so in the end NRF may not be as shitty as it seems
2022-04-06T12:10:43 < karlp> ventYl: sorry, what are you talking about?
2022-04-06T12:10:55 < ventYl> mostly about my bitching on nrf
2022-04-06T12:11:02 < karlp> nrf has shit errata, but your rtos can't fix that?
2022-04-06T12:11:24 < ventYl> somehow I rely on fact that stack cannot overflow without error, but in certain cases it may
2022-04-06T12:11:27 < karlp> were you having undefined behaviour you were blaming on nrf but was actually your own babbie's first rtos? :)
2022-04-06T12:11:34 < ventYl> yeah
2022-04-06T12:11:56 < karlp> yeah, I'm pretty sure my silabs woes at the moment are stack/heap overflow/exhaustion, and freertos stack overflow protection=2 isn't helping
2022-04-06T12:12:26 < karlp> sorry, I know it's probably not your first rtos :)
2022-04-06T12:12:38 < ventYl> it is
2022-04-06T12:13:06 < karlp> I've been considering whether to use MPU to track the accesses that the silabs blob does from it's "heap" that it requests, but it's starting to sound like a lot of engineering that won't help me deliver product.
2022-04-06T12:13:25 < karlp> tossing up dropping the rtos again. really struggling with the basics at the moment :|
2022-04-06T12:13:34 < qyx> a manager speaking
2022-04-06T12:13:53 < karlp> that tesla drive unit shit, imagine being on revision 6, and _still_ thinking that an f103 is a great choice?
2022-04-06T12:13:56 < qyx> but yeah, be goal oriented
2022-04-06T12:14:12 < ventYl> in fact I am doing Cortex-M development only about a week longer than my RTOS exists
2022-04-06T12:14:15 < ventYl> maybe two
2022-04-06T12:14:30 < karlp> let's write our own rtos, how hard can it be? :)
2022-04-06T12:14:42 < ventYl> ~two weeks ?
2022-04-06T12:14:49 < karlp> "why does freertos still get commits? shouldn't it be finished by now?!"
2022-04-06T12:15:52 < qyx> I would not support ventYl in his mission if it hadn't some interesting concepts
2022-04-06T12:16:08 < qyx> the scheduler is not the important part
2022-04-06T12:31:38 < Steffanx> Is ventYlâ—‹S open sores yes?
2022-04-06T12:32:05 < Steffanx> Yet
2022-04-06T12:32:14 < ventYl> not yet
2022-04-06T12:32:24 < ventYl> too many bugs
2022-04-06T12:32:55 < ventYl> and too dirty
2022-04-06T12:34:32 < Steffanx> I'm disappointed. I want your super duper low power nimble supported â—‹S
2022-04-06T12:35:24 < Steffanx> I was disappointed by riot os, so it'll be either freertos or zephyr now.
2022-04-06T12:35:40 < Steffanx> And fuck the nrf softdevice.
2022-04-06T12:35:54 < ventYl> what was the source of disasspointment in riot os?
2022-04-06T12:36:03 < Steffanx> Power consumption
2022-04-06T12:36:23 < ventYl> yeah, my shit is hardwired to use systick as of now
2022-04-06T12:36:25 < Steffanx> Apparently its not implemented at all.
2022-04-06T12:36:53 < Steffanx> 200 uA is too much.
2022-04-06T12:37:13 < ventYl> I also started by hardwiring libopencm3 in
2022-04-06T12:37:15 < Steffanx> OK it does some basic stuff, but not true low power
2022-04-06T12:37:18 < ventYl> which is not a good move
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2022-04-06T12:42:23 < \dev\ice> Steffanx: why didisappointed by riot?
2022-04-06T12:42:43 < \dev\ice> oh, already answered
2022-04-06T12:43:06 < qyx> first tractor of this ##farming32 season came
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2022-04-06T13:17:31 < ventYl> is it possible, that Cortex-M system would actively block access to certain stuff (SCS here) if running in thread mode?
2022-04-06T13:17:54 < ventYl> I am trying to enable dwt_cycle_counter from thread mode and I get bus error
2022-04-06T13:22:54 < karlp> lol, microchip direct, "buy now price, any volume, 1-24, 24-99, 100+"
2022-04-06T13:23:09 < karlp> "enter quantity (no limit)"
2022-04-06T13:23:18 < karlp> (footnote: multiple of 1000 only)
2022-04-06T13:28:15 < karlp> ventYl: sounds odd for plain m3/m4, but the armv7m manual might be the place to look for that?
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2022-04-06T13:33:22 < ventYl> karlp: that's what I observe. I have already stormed armv7m manual and nothing mentioned, but it may be mentioned somewhere globally, such as this is system level shit, no entry from thread mode
2022-04-06T13:35:22 < ventYl> ah, there it is: "Unprivileged mode: The software cannot access the system timer, NVIC or system control block"
2022-04-06T13:57:39 < karlp> oh, duh, cycle counter is in dwt, which is debug shit, can't let threads debug thekernel...
2022-04-06T14:06:18 < englishman> oh, karl, not a tesla part.
2022-04-06T14:22:41 < karlp> no, "makers"
2022-04-06T14:22:49 < karlp> reminder, don't be clver, just write it out: https://godbolt.org/z/9o5xdbWPo
2022-04-06T14:25:53 < karlp> xtensa gcc fails badly on that, fwiw.
2022-04-06T14:26:33 < karlp> so does riscv gcc/clang, but perhaps I need to give it more flags?
2022-04-06T14:27:25 < karlp> heh, "arduino uno" recognized the split 16bit form better than the byte by byte form.
2022-04-06T14:34:26 < karlp> zyp: is that really what I should expect on riscv? shitty code density? https://godbolt.org/z/8G9nvrMnc
2022-04-06T14:34:38 < karlp> gcc/clang latest with rv32imac settings I believe?
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2022-04-06T15:24:14 < karlp> thanks cmsis, eat memory and make task selection slow "because" https://github.com/ARM-software/CMSIS-FreeRTOS/blob/master/CMSIS/RTOS2/FreeRTOS/Include/freertos_os2.h#L319-L333
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2022-04-06T15:42:07 < zyp> karlp, hmm, I haven't gotten to the benchmarking risc-v stage yet
2022-04-06T15:43:10 < fenugrec> I was given a rasberry pi 3.something. What should I do with it... emulate an stm32 ?
2022-04-06T15:44:07 < zyp> but I guess risc-v doesn't have an inline shifter like arm, so it makes perfect sense that you get separate slli instructions compared to arm that does lsl as part of the orr instructions
2022-04-06T15:53:17 < zyp> byte reversal is part of the risc-v b spec, but I don't seem able to prod neither clang nor gcc into using it
2022-04-06T16:03:02 < karlp> it was cute to see mips recognize it really quickly, especially for BE,
2022-04-06T16:03:18 < karlp> zig timed out, kinda wanted to try that.
2022-04-06T16:09:56 < fenugrec> Take off every zig !
2022-04-06T16:10:40 < karlp> eh, distracting anyway
2022-04-06T16:17:19 < karlp> fuckin, silabs freertos layer makes configASSERT() point to EFM_ASSERT(), which by default is a noop
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2022-04-06T17:56:44 < karlp> man, hy are hardfaults so hard to catch, I've done this a heap in the past
2022-04-06T17:56:57 < karlp> also, why the fuck didn't I commit my fixed elf_usage.py shit instead of having to redo it.
2022-04-06T17:57:05 < karlp> py3 bleh TypeError: a bytes-like object is required, not 'str'
2022-04-06T17:57:09 < karlp> is everyone else having fun today?
2022-04-06T18:01:19 < Sadale> fenugrec, if you don't want it, send it to me please. :3
2022-04-06T18:06:09 < fenugrec> Sadale, what would you do with it ? I'll steal your idea and keep the board
2022-04-06T18:06:18 < Sadale> haha
2022-04-06T18:06:21 < Sadale> I'll resell it
2022-04-06T18:06:53 < fenugrec> aren<t those worth like 35$ new
2022-04-06T18:08:36 < Sadale> Not sure on the stock availability over there. A few months ago there was a shortage of raspberry pi.
2022-04-06T18:08:49 < Sadale> If the shortage is still there you may be able to sell that for a higher price
2022-04-06T18:08:53 < Xogium> they are all still out of stock a lot of the time
2022-04-06T18:09:15 < Sadale> If you've got only one unit it isn't easy to find a buyer tho
2022-04-06T18:09:21 < Xogium> https://rpilocator.com/
2022-04-06T18:10:00 -!- Spirit532 [~Spirit532@user/Spirit532] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2022-04-06T18:10:25 < Sadale> wow. That's bad.
2022-04-06T18:10:47 < Sadale> Maybe we could make profit off arbitrage. Just buy out the existing stocks and resell them at a higher price
2022-04-06T18:11:48 < BrainDamage> that's called scalping
2022-04-06T18:11:55 < BrainDamage> it already happens
2022-04-06T18:13:15 < Sadale> Of course someone else's already doing that. But that doesn't prevent us from doing the same
2022-04-06T18:13:34 < Xogium> but that doesn't make it right either
2022-04-06T18:14:01 < Xogium> besides lots of vendors now restrict 1 rpi per customer every month
2022-04-06T18:14:02 < Sadale> Does it matter?
2022-04-06T18:14:06 < Sadale> oh true
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2022-04-06T18:26:32 < fenugrec> haha wtf a website specialized in tracking pi stocks
2022-04-06T18:27:06 < Xogium> aye, had to be done because its so bloody hard to find one these days
2022-04-06T18:27:40 < Xogium> even adafruit went ot the extreme of enabling 2FA to let you buy a rpi 4
2022-04-06T18:28:04 < Xogium> cause they had robots buying them all as soon as they came in stock otherwise
2022-04-06T18:28:31 < fenugrec> I've never really paid attention to what people actually do with these. Ok, quad core thing with HDMI , wifi/BT and GPIO , runs linux... oh didn't they make a camera for it too
2022-04-06T18:30:54 < kakium69> linux box
2022-04-06T18:31:33 < fenugrec> sure, I can also bust out an old computer with similar specs and have a "linux box" that can barely run anything
2022-04-06T18:32:13 < kakium69> logger box
2022-04-06T18:32:24 < kakium69> debugger
2022-04-06T18:32:29 < kakium69> *probe
2022-04-06T18:32:43 < kakium69> iot push button
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2022-04-06T18:33:28 < kakium69> tiny client to hide behind some display that displays electric price, weather, calendar, pictures or something
2022-04-06T18:33:48 < kakium69> or stm32 stock status display
2022-04-06T18:33:53 < Xogium> hehehe
2022-04-06T18:35:00 < kakium69> I have used rpi4 as irssi box and as wifi access point
2022-04-06T18:37:51 < kakium69> for irssi box it's overkill
2022-04-06T18:37:54 < fenugrec> fair
2022-04-06T18:37:56 < fenugrec> it is low power
2022-04-06T18:38:11 < Xogium> hehe
2022-04-06T18:38:11 < kakium69> it's low power but rather terrible idle power
2022-04-06T18:38:18 < Xogium> I run irssi on my stm32mp1 ;D
2022-04-06T18:38:25 < kakium69> really?
2022-04-06T18:38:29 < Xogium> yup
2022-04-06T18:38:37 < kakium69> that is low power
2022-04-06T18:38:53 < Xogium> its well, close to rpi 1, I suppose ? O don't know
2022-04-06T18:39:13 < Xogium> its not a powerhouse, but it does irssi and a bunch of other things real good
2022-04-06T18:39:55 < Xogium> but I like that I can just litterally put it in standby mode like any other typical pc would
2022-04-06T18:40:14 < Xogium> systemctl suspend, bam. Then a wakeup button to wake it up from that state
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2022-04-06T18:41:45 < Xogium> or a rtc alarm
2022-04-06T18:41:50 < Xogium> those are awesome
2022-04-06T18:42:06 < kakium69> what kind of board you have?
2022-04-06T18:42:34 < Xogium> the stm32mp157f-dk2 from st
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2022-04-06T18:43:43 < kakium69> 685 Can Dispatch Immediately
2022-04-06T18:43:55 < Xogium> could be worse
2022-04-06T18:44:24 < Xogium> it even comes with a neat preprogrammed micro sd with yocto
2022-04-06T18:44:24 < kakium69> New Product: New from this manufacturer.
2022-04-06T18:44:39 < kakium69> is it new thing or just new for mouser?
2022-04-06T18:44:45 < Xogium> with demo apps to test the board
2022-04-06T18:44:56 < Xogium> but then I roll my own linux uisng buildroot
2022-04-06T18:45:10 < Xogium> still… its neat, avoided me having to buy another micro sd alongside
2022-04-06T18:46:21 < kakium69> I recommend using log2ram with any commercial grade sd card
2022-04-06T18:46:49 < Xogium> that logs to tmpfs or something ? And yeah, most definitely
2022-04-06T18:47:08 < Xogium> I have a few slc industrial around here, but they are all in use for other things
2022-04-06T18:49:12 < karlp> heap normally grows up right?
2022-04-06T18:49:18 < karlp> stack down?
2022-04-06T18:50:48 < kakium69> *on most systems karlp
2022-04-06T18:51:14 < kakium69> Xogium: industrial sds are not available in micro size
2022-04-06T18:51:23 < fenugrec> then you use _sbrk to query/adjust heap IIRC
2022-04-06T18:51:59 < Xogium> kakium69: hmm aren't they ? Then I suppose mouser and whoever manufacturer claim to sell industrial micro sd are liar ;p
2022-04-06T18:52:12 < kakium69> ah maybe
2022-04-06T18:52:36 < kakium69> when I bought one for some reason I went with full size one
2022-04-06T18:52:43 < Xogium> slc flash is nice to have though… But I'd rather use eMMC than micro sd if I could
2022-04-06T18:52:47 < kakium69> maybe it was price
2022-04-06T18:53:29 < kakium69> I bought used 16GB one for like hmm 40eur or 50eur idk
2022-04-06T18:53:40 < Xogium> yep very expensive
2022-04-06T18:53:59 < kakium69> new card were in hundreds
2022-04-06T18:54:05 < Xogium> oww
2022-04-06T18:54:19 < Xogium> yeah there's a 1 tb micro sd from micron if you want it
2022-04-06T18:54:31 < Xogium> $500 or more, iirc
2022-04-06T18:55:48 < kakium69> it's not SLC
2022-04-06T18:57:03 < Xogium> yeah definitely not at that size
2022-04-06T18:57:09 < karlp> well, looks like it's none of the task stacks, nor the internal stack/heap, at least, I've painted them all, and the ends are still painted
2022-04-06T18:57:15 < Xogium> but its still damn impressive :D
2022-04-06T18:57:40 < karlp> so I get a hardfauly from a usage fault with no T/IT errors, so _presumably_ executing garbage somewhere. still feels like a pointer gone wild
2022-04-06T18:57:43 < karlp> gah
2022-04-06T18:57:45 < karlp> out of time
2022-04-06T18:57:51 < Xogium> the 512 mb slc card I use to log for another project did cost me about 25 euros iirc
2022-04-06T18:58:11 < Xogium> er MB, sorry
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2022-04-06T19:00:51 < Xogium> 128 gb full size sd in slc nand… doubt that exists
2022-04-06T19:00:55 < kakium69> karlp: have you verified flash?
2022-04-06T19:01:02 < Xogium> would be pricy though
2022-04-06T19:01:20 < kakium69> I think there is 64GB at least
2022-04-06T19:01:57 < kakium69> karlp: I had issue once that 200 bytes and couple more were left unwritten
2022-04-06T19:02:37 < kakium69> then I bought jlink
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2022-04-06T19:07:10 < kakium69> bbl>
2022-04-06T19:08:11 < witx> are there any downsides on having a uart's TX pin connected to several RX's pins on other boards?
2022-04-06T19:09:36 < witx> I mean having a board A that needs to transmit some data to boards B, C and D. That's the only interaction there is: A sending data to all of them. Could this be achieved with just one serial port on A? (with TX connected to multiple RX)
2022-04-06T19:13:57 < Xogium> 32 gb is very pricy if you want industrial temp plus slc indeed
2022-04-06T19:14:06 < Xogium> between 260 and 500 euros
2022-04-06T19:15:05 < Xogium> there's only 32 gb size for true slc, probably because they cannot squeeze that much flash chips in there
2022-04-06T19:15:46 < Xogium> beyond that its pslc done from either mlc or tlc flash, so pseudo slc, make believe
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2022-04-06T19:16:12 < Xogium> software acting like it is slc card but really isn't
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2022-04-06T19:43:55 < englishman> fenugrec: did you get tickets to RAGE
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2022-04-06T20:05:31 < bitmask> a video im watching the guy is talking about a power supply and he just said, and i quote, "It's DC voltage, so it doesn't hurt, but it is painful"
2022-04-06T20:06:27 < bitmask> he also calls cathodes cath-rods
2022-04-06T20:07:13 < Xogium> lol
2022-04-06T20:14:21 < bitmask> why do i keep spending money on electroplating stuff, i have no need for it
2022-04-06T20:14:31 < bitmask> just spent $50 on a gallon of phosphoric acid
2022-04-06T20:15:39 < bitmask> for electropolishing because my copper keeps oxidizing too fast (i think its because i have a hole in the plating where i clipped off the wire and liquid gets underneath and slowly comes out)
2022-04-06T20:15:49 < bitmask> i gotta clean it up and replate those areas
2022-04-06T20:16:37 < bitmask> i wondered why copper sulfate crystals kept growing on top of the metal copper even after rinsing heavily in water
2022-04-06T20:16:45 < bitmask> i must have a few holes
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2022-04-06T20:23:27 < Laurenceb> beta uprising alert in eastern Ukraine!
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2022-04-06T20:49:42 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFPm2mV7X0AwWLnO.png%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-04-06T21:07:54 < fenugrec> englishman I did not... are you scalping ?
2022-04-06T21:08:13 < englishman> no they are still available
2022-04-06T21:08:28 < englishman> also alexisonfire
2022-04-06T21:08:40 < fenugrec> neither really my bag
2022-04-06T21:08:55 < englishman> buu
2022-04-06T21:09:14 < englishman> alanis morrissettte?
2022-04-06T21:09:27 < fenugrec> alanis mon assiette, nop
2022-04-06T21:19:17 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@82.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-06T21:19:25 < Laurenceb> https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/bltf04078f3cf7a9c30/blt572238854a5ac9a0/62477f0e21fd967b5ff21f80/Staring.jpg?format=jpg&width=1440
2022-04-06T21:21:44 < BrainDamage> wrt china is trying to outdo you guys in uk wrt intrusiveness https://twitter.com/aliceysu/status/1511558828802068481?t=-nJQYEORZtXW6WHhOGQJ4Q&s=19
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2022-04-06T21:22:24 < fenugrec> is that a joke
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2022-04-06T21:28:28 < kakium69> witx: reflections
2022-04-06T21:31:50 < kakium69> hmm.. laurenceb has been removed. that link is not safe to open?
2022-04-06T21:32:45 < specing> it's safe
2022-04-06T21:39:28 < Steffanx> Reflections what kakium69 ?
2022-04-06T21:39:43 < kakium69> if you split line in multiple lines
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2022-04-06T21:53:06 < Steffanx> Not sure if relevant, but sure kakium69 :P
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2022-04-06T22:07:45 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1511776998145810433
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2022-04-06T22:22:40 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-06T22:24:39 < Posterdati> please help, I'm using gcc version 8.3.1 20190703 (release) [gcc-8-branch revision 273027] (15:8-2019-q3-1+b1) (arm-none-eabi) to compile a baremetal project on stm32f4-discovery board. I've got multiple undefined reference during linking to gcov, I'm using nano.specs to link. Thanks!
2022-04-06T22:25:18 < PaulFertser> Posterdati: you should give link to your project I guess.
2022-04-06T22:26:39 < Posterdati> mmmh
2022-04-06T22:26:41 < Posterdati> ok
2022-04-06T22:26:43 < catphish> kakium69: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wm5zPjXjNopXiszX8
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2022-04-06T22:30:02 < kakium69> nice
2022-04-06T22:30:40 < catphish> i mounted the relay a bit high, so it'll be a tight connection to the fuse above
2022-04-06T22:31:02 < catphish> but otherwise, all good :)
2022-04-06T22:31:52 < kakium69> cells are pretty long (height)
2022-04-06T22:40:59 < mawk> if you have references to gcov you might have use profiling options you shouldn't have used, Posterdati
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2022-04-06T22:42:56 < kakium69> karlp: did you figure it out?
2022-04-06T22:43:44 < kakium69> should such thing even take that long to narrow down in debugger?
2022-04-06T22:45:23 < kakium69> finding the point were breakpoint still works and then step it
2022-04-06T22:47:42 < Posterdati> mawk: missing -flto flags in g++ compiler
2022-04-06T22:48:05 < mawk> you mean, you have -flto but you have to remove it?
2022-04-06T22:48:43 < Posterdati> mawk
2022-04-06T22:48:55 < Posterdati> mawk: I have in the linker, but not in compiling
2022-04-06T22:49:02 < mawk> ah
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> mawk: now I'm facing this: /tmp/cczZjPj6.s: Assembler messages:
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> /tmp/cczZjPj6.s:6541: Error: offset out of range
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> /tmp/cczZjPj6.s:6600: Error: offset out of range
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> /tmp/cczZjPj6.s:6604: Error: invalid constant (fffffffffffffffd) after fixup
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> lto-wrapper: fatal error: /usr/bin/arm-none-eabi-g++ returned 1 exit status
2022-04-06T22:49:35 < Posterdati> compilation terminated.
2022-04-06T22:49:48 < Posterdati> uh sorry
2022-04-06T23:01:59 < Posterdati> ?
2022-04-06T23:08:15 < kakium69> catphish: you gonna series all cooling lines?
2022-04-06T23:09:47 < catphish> kakium69: it's a little more complicated than that, each row of batteries have their lines paralleled
2022-04-06T23:09:59 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-06T23:12:31 < catphish> kakium69: the final setup ends up like this: https://i.imgur.com/3xEupRP.png
2022-04-06T23:12:50 < kakium69> aah
2022-04-06T23:12:57 < catphish> each row has 5 modules in parallel, then the 3 rows are in series
2022-04-06T23:13:08 < kakium69> I understands now
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2022-04-06T23:13:50 < kakium69> 5 parallel should have easy flow
2022-04-06T23:14:46 < ventYl> only if they are of equal lenght and diameter
2022-04-06T23:14:53 < catphish> the pipes that parallel them are very low resistance
2022-04-06T23:15:02 < catphish> (compared to the flow through each one)
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--- Day changed to huhti 07 2022
2022-04-07T00:00:43 < mawk> Posterdati: do you really need lto?
2022-04-07T00:01:00 < mawk> I'm not sure if there is compiler runtime needed or not
2022-04-07T00:01:06 < mawk> you have 0 runtime on a stm32
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2022-04-07T01:14:02 < Mangy_Dog> Soo need some help, I dont want to use virtual serial uart over USB. But Id like to use USb to connect my hardware monitor to the PC as a USB device, and send the data securly... What type fo USB protocol should i use? Rawhid?
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2022-04-07T01:26:02 < kakium69> what do you mean securly?
2022-04-07T01:31:18 < kakium69> https://medium.com/@pasindusandima/stm32-usb-virtual-com-port-vcp-bc7cb1bd5f5 cdc?
2022-04-07T01:34:18 < kakium69> center of disease control
2022-04-07T02:00:42 < catphish> Mangy_Dog: if you don't want to use virtual uart, i'd just make my own protocol using libusb
2022-04-07T02:00:57 < Mangy_Dog> sure
2022-04-07T02:01:06 < catphish> "securely" is a somewhat unrelated matter though, you'll want to find a crypto library
2022-04-07T02:01:09 < Mangy_Dog> but i need to know how to impliment that
2022-04-07T02:01:14 < Mangy_Dog> naa i dont mean crypto
2022-04-07T02:01:17 < Mangy_Dog> just error proof
2022-04-07T02:02:17 < catphish> afaik USB has more than enough error detection, so you're probably good there, you just need to decide on a way to packetize the data (usb packets aren't very big)
2022-04-07T02:03:34 < catphish> if it's any help, here's a project that uses libusb and stm32 to stream data to a PC https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy
2022-04-07T02:04:03 < Mangy_Dog> ill have to look at that in the morning when im more away
2022-04-07T02:04:05 < Mangy_Dog> but thank you
2022-04-07T02:05:39 < catphish> libusb is pretty easy to use, you just tell it the USB ID you're interested in, and tell it to read, not much more complicated than reading a stream from a serial port
2022-04-07T02:06:00 < catphish> in ruby: https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/pc/read.rb#L24..L26 and then https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/pc/read.rb#L17
2022-04-07T02:06:08 < Mangy_Dog> nods and im assuming i can write too?
2022-04-07T02:06:17 < catphish> yes, see https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/pc/read.rb#L13
2022-04-07T02:06:46 < catphish> i forget what the parameters mean, but they're not very complicated
2022-04-07T02:07:16 < catphish> what IS complicated is the stm32 side, though if you're using a HAL it'll probably be fine
2022-04-07T02:07:59 < Mangy_Dog> >.>
2022-04-07T02:08:18 < Mangy_Dog> using roger clarks core at the moment
2022-04-07T02:08:27 < catphish> my implementation is 264 lines... https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/usb.c
2022-04-07T02:09:05 < catphish> but i always swallow the red pull and implement from scratch, you probably don't need to
2022-04-07T02:09:36 < Mangy_Dog> that looks pretty..... complex :D
2022-04-07T02:09:45 < Mangy_Dog> lots of hal there
2022-04-07T02:10:13 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2022-04-07T02:10:14 < Mangy_Dog> i must sleep
2022-04-07T02:10:18 < Mangy_Dog> pretty shattered
2022-04-07T02:10:38 < kakium69> does usb cdc ensure data
2022-04-07T02:10:53 < kakium69> or is it just that it can detect error
2022-04-07T02:11:06 < kakium69> does it resend automatically if error?
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2022-04-07T02:21:03 < catphish> kakium69: since CDC is a stream i'd hope it would guarantee delivery like TCP, but i'm not certain
2022-04-07T02:37:06 < zyp> cdc acm is just a fancy set of descriptors on top of a bulk pipe pair, so they get all the regular properties of bulk pipes including flow control and reliable delivery
2022-04-07T02:37:35 < catphish> ideal
2022-04-07T02:41:16 < zyp> well, assuming the driver doesn't shit itself
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2022-04-07T02:43:19 < zyp> I ran some benchmarks on ACM over a USB FS link about a year ago, IIRC both the linux and the macos drivers weren't able to keep up when I pushed the datarate up
2022-04-07T02:43:27 < zyp> sorry, I mean USB HS
2022-04-07T02:47:06 < zyp> but I guess it's not too surprising a driver designed to handle serial port data rates will have issues with a hundred megabits or whatever it was I pushed
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2022-04-07T03:06:57 < qyx> so, any recommendations on picture encoders runnable on stm32?
2022-04-07T03:07:00 < qyx> without patent issues
2022-04-07T03:07:09 < qyx> webp maybe?
2022-04-07T03:36:52 < qyx> jpeg-xl looks much better now
2022-04-07T03:38:34 < qyx> oh it is c++
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2022-04-07T11:20:33 < Posterdati> mawk: no I don't, if I remve it I've got a lot of linker errors
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2022-04-07T11:24:11 < Posterdati> mawk: done! Removed all profiling stuff, now it is compiling and linking ok
2022-04-07T11:26:19 < Xogium> aww man I so wish I had tought of doing this sooner… I found a way to let me know when I can start to blindly type username and security key PIN when rebooting my pc
2022-04-07T11:26:34 < Xogium> given screen reader doesn't run yet, its a bit… tricky
2022-04-07T11:26:53 < Xogium> I added a litteral bell character to /etc/issue. Pc speaker goes BEEP
2022-04-07T11:27:49 < Xogium> yes I have an actual pc speaker, the piezo kind that is
2022-04-07T11:28:02 < Xogium> came with my fractal design case ;p
2022-04-07T11:34:08 < zyp> doesn't modern motherboards have a piezo beeper right on the motherboard so there's no need for one in the case?
2022-04-07T11:34:57 < Xogium> zyp: nup, lots of them don't, or if you get lucky the sound card emulates it
2022-04-07T11:35:07 < kakium69> zyp: actually no
2022-04-07T11:35:22 < Xogium> but that means it has to go through headphones in my case, which would be nowhere near practical if I'm not wearing them
2022-04-07T11:35:49 < zyp> no? pretty sure all I have in use do
2022-04-07T11:36:15 < Xogium> it also means your bios won't ever beep at you to signal problems
2022-04-07T11:39:38 < zyp> hmm, looks like my workstation motherboard doesn't
2022-04-07T11:39:43 < zyp> but the server motherboard does
2022-04-07T11:40:12 < ventYl> aren't server motherboards usually tightly coupled with chassis?
2022-04-07T11:40:24 < ventYl> my desktop mobo also doesn't have pc speaker onboard
2022-04-07T11:40:39 < zyp> server motherboard as the one I have in my server
2022-04-07T11:41:18 < zyp> it's not really a server motherboard, just used as one :p
2022-04-07T11:42:13 < zyp> https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X10SLQ
2022-04-07T11:44:09 < jpa-> i haven't seen beepers on most modern motherboards
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2022-04-07T13:02:26 < karlp> kakium69: no, I have not fixed anything yet :|
2022-04-07T13:09:51 < qyx> what was the recent rage about unique ID registers not being continuous?
2022-04-07T13:10:28 < qyx> on G4, there are 3 registers at 0x1FFF7590
2022-04-07T13:10:47 < qyx> they have offset 0x0, 0x4 and 0x8
2022-04-07T13:10:57 < qyx> sounds reasonable, no gap in the middle
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2022-04-07T13:22:24 < qyx> it reads 004e0032 3336500f 20333457 as 3 words
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2022-04-07T13:32:29 < karlp> it's not recent, though someone recently re-stumbled on it...
2022-04-07T13:32:58 < karlp> some L parts are discontinuous, and iirc, even different densities in the family have them in different places or something dumb.
2022-04-07T13:33:43 < karlp> right, f7 has it at three different places for "449, 451 and 452" (I guess those are the chipids)
2022-04-07T13:34:12 < karlp> l1 has it at different locations for category 1/2 and 3-6,
2022-04-07T13:34:20 < karlp> L0 has 0, 4, 0x14 offsets...
2022-04-07T13:34:27 < karlp> l4 as well
2022-04-07T13:35:22 < qyx> hm
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2022-04-07T13:43:09 < karlp> ignore all that, you'r eon g4 now, no problem? :)
2022-04-07T13:43:59 < qyx> G4 and L4 mostly
2022-04-07T13:47:26 < karlp> well, just remember it on l4.
2022-04-07T13:48:15 < karlp> let's see what quectel has to say about lora and how they're going to try and shit talk mqtt...
2022-04-07T13:52:39 < karlp> sorry, lpwa, not lora. they'ðre already heaping shit on lora
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2022-04-07T14:25:58 < Posterdati> zyp: supermicro :)
2022-04-07T14:39:53 < karlp> fucking microsoft speaker is so slow I'm listening at 1.5x
2022-04-07T14:40:00 < karlp> normally I can only do 1.25x
2022-04-07T14:43:39 < Posterdati> microsoft speaker?
2022-04-07T14:43:48 < Posterdati> windows 12?
2022-04-07T14:46:06 < karlp> no, I'm on some quectel training, and there's a speaker from microsoft
2022-04-07T14:46:36 < karlp> and vimeo uses space bar to do "full screen / window" toggle, not pause/play?!
2022-04-07T14:47:34 < Posterdati> lol
2022-04-07T14:48:18 < karlp> ah, it does spacebar is "push the last thing you clicked"
2022-04-07T14:48:46 < karlp> so click to go fulls creen, and then if I click pause/play again, then spacebar "does the right thing"
2022-04-07T14:49:49 < Posterdati> satia nadella/luca sardella clone
2022-04-07T14:52:16 < Posterdati> microsoft remember me the old times FIAT but with less reliable products
2022-04-07T15:02:01 < karlp> ok, this entire talk is "lwm2m is wayyyyy better than mqtt, because mqtt uses stupid tcp and we're using udp!"
2022-04-07T15:03:38 < karlp> theyðre talking about ~100x less data in _connections_ this makes no sense.
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2022-04-07T15:04:33 < karlp> wish these slides had more detail on them
2022-04-07T15:09:10 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vkBhD.png implies 146kB / day for 24 connections?! or
2022-04-07T15:12:34 < karlp> I think they've deliberately broken their mqtt setup to make this comparison better.
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2022-04-07T16:25:41 < mawk> sunday is french presidential election at the consulate in den haag Steffann
2022-04-07T16:25:50 < mawk> should I vote for Marine Le Pen? or for Éric Zemmour
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2022-04-07T16:38:46 < qyx> mrs. putin?
2022-04-07T16:39:15 < mawk> I haven't really heard what she said about mister poutine
2022-04-07T16:39:25 < mawk> she probably wisely stopped talking about russia since the war started
2022-04-07T16:40:25 < Posterdati> is Marine Le Pen pro Putin?
2022-04-07T16:44:37 < qyx> at least she was
2022-04-07T16:46:56 < karlp> wow, datasheet with inches only.
2022-04-07T16:46:59 < karlp> and it's chinese
2022-04-07T16:47:01 < karlp> fuck that shit
2022-04-07T16:48:08 < ventYl> i've seen that before
2022-04-07T16:49:54 < Steffann> The other guy seems to be more outspoken pro putin atm mawk
2022-04-07T16:50:06 < mawk> yeah Steffann
2022-04-07T16:50:07 < Steffann> So none of the above.
2022-04-07T16:50:10 < mawk> my boy zemzem
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2022-04-07T17:05:20 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/iAoHz93utCg
2022-04-07T17:06:03 < mawk> it's regular music I promise
2022-04-07T17:06:12 < mawk> no boem boem
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2022-04-07T17:56:29 < karlp> running free? always crashes on iteration 159.
2022-04-07T17:56:35 < karlp> stepping? doesn't crash. classic
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2022-04-07T18:03:00 < BrainDamage> I find that when I meet heisenbugs a good rule of thumb is to try to add no logic changes but still some changes and see if the bug moves
2022-04-07T18:03:52 < karlp> yeah, what's making this worse is that super pro jlink gdb server doesn't let me "load" new code, and ssv5 doesn't understand freertos nor does it let me have a gdb console to run memory inspections
2022-04-07T18:03:55 < karlp> it's fucking gross.
2022-04-07T18:04:11 < karlp> yesterday I was getting usage fault, invalid T bit,
2022-04-07T18:04:20 < karlp> today I'm getting "no coproceessor"
2022-04-07T18:04:59 < karlp> CPACR has all the bits set for it though, so that's fun
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2022-04-07T18:50:20 < Posterdati> karlp: same here on discovery stm32f4 (stm32f407vg)
2022-04-07T18:50:30 < karlp> same here what?
2022-04-07T18:50:38 < karlp> you have a heisenbug?
2022-04-07T18:53:43 < Posterdati> no
2022-04-07T18:54:01 < Posterdati> free runnin = HardFault, stepping = ok
2022-04-07T18:57:18 < BrainDamage> that's what a heisenbug is ...
2022-04-07T18:59:12 < Posterdati> ah ok
2022-04-07T18:59:28 < Posterdati> it surely something related to clock
2022-04-07T19:23:52 < cristian__c> hi
2022-04-07T19:24:59 < cristian__c> I've got some issue to flash stm8s103f3p6 using stlinkv2 programmer
2022-04-07T19:25:56 < cristian__c> I've tried using stvp adn stm8flash but without success and I can't find out what goes wrong
2022-04-07T19:26:02 < cristian__c> any ideas about that?
2022-04-07T19:33:37 < Steffanx> Did you ever consider getting like a stm8s-discovery which has everything you need cristian__c ?
2022-04-07T19:33:54 < Steffanx> And I know stm32 is hard to get, but whyyyy stm8 ?
2022-04-07T19:34:39 < kakium69> hasn't stm8 been hyped by this channel as an alternative for other 8bits
2022-04-07T19:35:10 < Steffanx> Stm32 is a proper alternative for 8bit
2022-04-07T19:35:36 < cristian__c> Steffanx: as I said, stm32 uses swd in place of swim and I should try swim with another device
2022-04-07T19:36:00 < qyx> something it is easier not to ask for reasons
2022-04-07T19:36:22 < qyx> *sometimes
2022-04-07T19:36:35 < Steffanx> I'm not sure what you mean with that cristian__c
2022-04-07T19:37:29 < cristian__c> Steffanx: about stm8s discovery, I'm lookig at specs but I didn't understand what you mean when you talk about 'everything you need'
2022-04-07T19:37:53 < Steffanx> It comes with a target and a debugger cristian__c
2022-04-07T19:38:04 < Steffanx> I'm pretty sure that should work.
2022-04-07T19:38:23 < cristian__c> Steffanx: i've got a device that uses swim connection and before using that, I'd like to test swim with stm8s board
2022-04-07T19:39:02 < Steffanx> If the discovery works you know at least your software on your pc works.
2022-04-07T19:39:40 < Steffanx> You're not wrong qyx
2022-04-07T19:39:40 < cristian__c> do you mean there is a possibility two different types of tools are broken?
2022-04-07T19:39:42 < qyx> is using swim and stm8 a voluntary decision or a forced sadomasochism?
2022-04-07T19:39:54 < cristian__c> I mean both stm8flash and stvp
2022-04-07T19:40:07 < qyx> no, he means your hardware is broken
2022-04-07T19:40:13 < Steffanx> Unlikely, so it must be your hardware then
2022-04-07T19:40:35 < qyx> and if you get stm8discovery, you have a known working hardware together with a compatible debugger
2022-04-07T19:41:19 < Steffanx> I used a stm8 once, because it was cheap. It's now in thousands of products
2022-04-07T19:41:26 < Steffanx> But we buy it preprogrammed
2022-04-07T19:41:28 < cristian__c> qyx: the device I've got has a swim label on the pcb pad
2022-04-07T19:42:06 < Steffanx> Maybe cristian__c is trying to hack my creation 😅
2022-04-07T19:42:24 < Steffanx> Is it a button/display for a coffee machine?
2022-04-07T19:42:48 < cristian__c> Steffanx: digital to analog video conerter
2022-04-07T19:43:08 < cristian__c> maybe macrosilicon is the main chip
2022-04-07T19:43:27 < cristian__c> btw, communication is made by swim
2022-04-07T19:44:05 < Steffanx> Whatever, I give up
2022-04-07T19:44:13 < cristian__c> before looking at that, I should try withma board
2022-04-07T19:44:29 < Steffanx> Time to get a scope or logic analyzer to see what happens
2022-04-07T19:44:38 < Steffanx> Not sure if swim is an open protocol
2022-04-07T19:44:59 < cristian__c> Steffanx: about the stm8s board?
2022-04-07T19:45:08 < cristian__c> logic znalyzer -> stm8s board
2022-04-07T19:45:30 < Steffanx> Yes, to see what actually happens at the swim lines.
2022-04-07T19:45:35 < Steffanx> If anything happens
2022-04-07T19:46:08 < cristian__c> stvp gives me a communication error, I checked that but I've not found clues about that
2022-04-07T19:46:46 < cristian__c> about stm8s discovery, it seems it doesn't give me answers about the software but about the hardware
2022-04-07T19:47:23 < Steffanx> It does give you answers. You know you can program an stm8
2022-04-07T19:47:42 < cristian__c> so, I don't understand what answers could give me stm8s discovery if I try that, but probably there is a reason that I don't know
2022-04-07T19:47:45 < Steffanx> And I recall you can also use the debugger on the discovery to program external mcus
2022-04-07T19:48:17 < Steffanx> If you can program the target on the discovery you have setup that works
2022-04-07T19:48:32 < Steffanx> If then you can try an external target and see if that works
2022-04-07T19:48:50 < cristian__c> ok, so softearemtesting
2022-04-07T19:48:55 < Steffanx> If not, then you at least can be pretty sure it's your hardware
2022-04-07T19:49:01 < cristian__c> *software testing
2022-04-07T19:49:19 < Steffanx> And then I dont know, because I don't know stm8 well enough
2022-04-07T19:49:33 < Steffanx> It can probably be locked etc.
2022-04-07T19:49:35 < cristian__c> Steffanx: stm8s board or programmer?
2022-04-07T19:49:52 < Steffanx> I dont remember, it probably can
2022-04-07T19:50:22 < Steffanx> Whatever mcu you are trying to program
2022-04-07T19:50:27 < Steffanx> *flash
2022-04-07T19:50:46 < cristian__c> I mean, when you talk about 'can be pretty sure it's your hardware' <- stm8s board or programmer, I mean
2022-04-07T19:51:24 < cristian__c> (they are used in conjunction when flashing)
2022-04-07T19:51:24 < Steffanx> The stm8s board, considering you use the debugger of the stm8sdiscovery to flash your other stm8
2022-04-07T19:51:54 < Steffanx> Which you just verified to be functional
2022-04-07T19:52:01 < cristian__c> ah, inyeresting
2022-04-07T19:52:06 < cristian__c> *interesting
2022-04-07T19:52:25 < cristian__c> I've understood what you mean
2022-04-07T19:53:00 < Steffanx> But you can also use your current setup and look at what actually happens at the swim interface with a scope or logic analyser
2022-04-07T19:53:15 < Steffanx> To see if anything happens.
2022-04-07T19:53:36 < Steffanx> And if something happens, perhaps you can determine why it fails
2022-04-07T19:54:22 < cristian__c> yeah, I've tried logic analyzer with arduino sometimes, even if it's not very easy to use (for me, at least), but I could practice more
2022-04-07T19:55:49 < cristian__c> (I remember, I've tried a test program to test if logic analyzer is working properly. Probably it worked
2022-04-07T19:57:04 < cristian__c> btw,vhabks for the answers, I can try to consider both stm8s discovery board as far as a logic analyzer inspection of swim line
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2022-04-07T20:11:49 < qyx> cristian__c: you are simply looped
2022-04-07T20:15:19 < Steffanx> Looped.
2022-04-07T20:29:55 < cristian__c> qyx: ?
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2022-04-07T22:09:15 < kakium69> evening
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2022-04-07T22:41:47 < benishor_> ohai
2022-04-07T22:55:18 < Steffann> Gooday
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2022-04-07T23:21:30 < rajkosto> https://youtu.be/XewEgzQUtl4?t=53
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2022-04-07T23:42:42 < catphish> morning
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2022-04-07T23:56:15 < kakium69> workshop day catphish?
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2022-04-07T23:59:55 < catphish> kakium69: yep, no photos today though, it was a pretty boring day of measuring and marking
--- Day changed pe huhti 08 2022
2022-04-08T00:00:11 < kakium69> measure 5 times
2022-04-08T00:00:16 < kakium69> cut twice
2022-04-08T00:00:54 < catphish> today i did utter the words "whoever says you should measure twice and cut once has no idea how bad i am at cutting"
2022-04-08T00:01:24 < BrainDamage> did you emo yourself?
2022-04-08T00:01:58 < catphish> anyway, i cut the angle steel to finish the grid in the tray that will support the battery box
2022-04-08T00:02:39 < catphish> and i cut all the remaining aluminium tube for the battery cooling
2022-04-08T00:02:45 < kakium69> always punch start hole and use flawless drill bit for initial hole when doin holes
2022-04-08T00:03:23 < catphish> punch is a good idea, i've been doing it with a tiy drill bit, but even that moves sometimes
2022-04-08T00:03:29 < catphish> *tiny
2022-04-08T00:04:01 < kakium69> there are special start drill bits
2022-04-08T00:04:19 < BrainDamage> I have an automatic center punch
2022-04-08T00:04:37 < BrainDamage> you just hold it against the work piece and it has a spring loaded hammer
2022-04-08T00:05:10 < catphish> yeah that would be really useful
2022-04-08T00:05:15 < Steffann> I still have to get me one of those
2022-04-08T00:09:39 < kakium69> me too
2022-04-08T00:12:04 < kakium69> I have plenty hammer operated ones though
2022-04-08T00:12:40 < BrainDamage> if you have an old masonry bit you don't care about, you can use them as center punch
2022-04-08T00:12:56 < BrainDamage> they have reinforced heads and are built to withstand hammering action
2022-04-08T00:13:20 < kakium69> I think old masonry bits are rather round at tip
2022-04-08T00:13:31 < Steffann> That can be fixed...
2022-04-08T00:13:55 < kakium69> and if there is good tip it's to be used for masonry
2022-04-08T00:14:43 < BrainDamage> i have some spares because every now and then I forget to replace them, then buy a whole new set
2022-04-08T00:14:53 < BrainDamage> so I end up with working doubles
2022-04-08T00:15:43 < BrainDamage> as in, new set costs less than replacing ~3 individual broken bits
2022-04-08T00:15:53 < Steffann> Just buy a bunch of spring-loaded ones on the aliexpress 😅
2022-04-08T00:16:05 < kakium69> just have a bin for those BrainDamage
2022-04-08T00:17:38 < Steffann> How many you break per day kakium69
2022-04-08T00:18:15 < kakium69> I can break one per day
2022-04-08T00:19:37 < kakium69> those days when you cannot feel palms of hands anymore just tingling
2022-04-08T00:20:04 < kakium69> and there is a lot of rebar to push through
2022-04-08T00:26:21 < catphish> masonary bits have really round tips, wood bits would be great, but i doubt they'd take much abuse, so a proper punch would be awesome
2022-04-08T00:30:29 < kakium69> punch costs like 2ukp
2022-04-08T00:30:49 < kakium69> or something
2022-04-08T00:33:03 < catphish> i don't have that much :'(
2022-04-08T00:33:25 < qyx> BrainDamage: I stopped buying bit sets, they are plain shit
2022-04-08T00:33:34 < qyx> you do 4-5 holes and the bit is void
2022-04-08T00:33:39 < qyx> the same for HSS bits
2022-04-08T00:33:55 < Steffann> Youre doing it wrong
2022-04-08T00:33:57 < qyx> also for screwdriver bits
2022-04-08T00:34:09 < kakium69> you want cobolt drill bits
2022-04-08T00:34:37 < qyx> when we started building our house, i bough fischer screwdriver PH2/PZ2 bits, 3€ each
2022-04-08T00:34:40 < qyx> they are still okay
2022-04-08T00:34:55 < qyx> you do 5000 screws on the roof and the bit looks like new
2022-04-08T00:35:23 < catphish> HSS bits seem pretty tough, and easily sharpened
2022-04-08T00:35:26 < Steffann> I mainly use torx screws.
2022-04-08T00:35:43 < qyx> yeah, but roof guys don't like them
2022-04-08T00:35:46 < catphish> carbide bits are presumably better
2022-04-08T00:35:59 < qyx> otherwise all are TX15/20/25
2022-04-08T00:36:13 < qyx> there is not a single PH/PZ screw on this house
2022-04-08T00:36:19 < qyx> except the roof of course
2022-04-08T00:37:40 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-xOHQTT5tw Which Impact Driver Bit is Best? Let's find out! Phillips #2 Showdown
2022-04-08T00:44:24 < kakium69> qyx: roof made with phillips screws whaa?
2022-04-08T00:46:38 < kakium69> https://www-de.wera.de/ if you want the absolute best screwdrivers and bits
2022-04-08T00:47:31 < kakium69> those are $$$
2022-04-08T00:47:44 < qyx> wiha is good too
2022-04-08T00:48:02 < kakium69> or was it wiha.. I dont remember
2022-04-08T00:48:11 < kakium69> both german right?
2022-04-08T00:56:36 < kakium69> interesting.. carbide drill will outlive hss cobalt by factor of 50x hole count in NC operation
2022-04-08T00:56:47 < kakium69> 10x price
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2022-04-08T00:59:39 < qyx> where is jadew
2022-04-08T00:59:41 < qyx> https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/TechTip/temperature-measurement-ntc-thermistors.html
2022-04-08T00:59:48 < qyx> he can finally finish his temperature logger
2022-04-08T00:59:54 < qyx> there is even code he can copy&paste
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2022-04-08T01:01:03 < kakium69> 2022-04-02T22:57:41 < kakium69> jadew: sup?
2022-04-08T01:01:04 < kakium69> 2022-04-05T00:56:39 -!- jadew [~rcc@user/rcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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2022-04-08T01:04:10 < kakium69> his last message:
2022-04-08T01:04:10 < kakium69> 2022-03-28T15:01:40 < jadew> I was yeah
2022-04-08T01:05:20 < BrainDamage> carbide drill bits are brittle
2022-04-08T01:05:42 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-08T01:05:43 < BrainDamage> I've lost quite a few to wobble
2022-04-08T01:06:18 < BrainDamage> personally I'd recommend to use one only if both the work piece and the drill are clamped
2022-04-08T01:06:29 < kakium69> that's why don't use carbide for general fakkery
2022-04-08T01:08:10 < kakium69> some big drill bits for cnc have really interesting technology in them
2022-04-08T01:08:15 < kakium69> such as internal dampers
2022-04-08T01:09:08 < karlp> blah, I carefully did gnd-power and gnd-a for this switcher, and get into the actual layout,
2022-04-08T01:09:28 < kakium69> karlp: what you innovating?
2022-04-08T01:09:28 < karlp> and they're like, "do this, exactly" and it's a single ground pour over both the gnd and gnd-a pads.
2022-04-08T01:09:41 < karlp> so kicad isn't real thrilled about that....
2022-04-08T01:10:44 < kakium69> just make GND - GND-A connection in schematic and export net
2022-04-08T01:10:54 < karlp> yeah, that's wht I think I'll do
2022-04-08T01:10:59 < karlp> I have a net tie there now
2022-04-08T01:11:07 < karlp> but I thnk I need to just straight up short them
2022-04-08T01:11:17 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PFL95.png
2022-04-08T01:11:55 < kakium69> that is exactly what they want exactly?
2022-04-08T01:12:34 < catphish> i guess i'll stick with HSS, never been dissatisfied
2022-04-08T01:13:01 < karlp> datasheet in one section: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/npGka.png (note the shorted pads internally)
2022-04-08T01:13:38 < kakium69> you can add fills inside fill
2022-04-08T01:13:44 < karlp> then later, "oh yeah, but split them internally" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lAvhY.png
2022-04-08T01:13:48 < kakium69> change priority
2022-04-08T01:15:07 < karlp> yeah, I've been tossing up priorities and overlapping zones.
2022-04-08T01:15:13 < karlp> sounds like a fuck aroundthogh
2022-04-08T01:15:43 < kakium69> for areas that require detail that is not allowed by the general rules of larger fill
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2022-04-08T01:19:19 < kakium69> karlp: AGND seems to be for FB mainly?
2022-04-08T01:22:16 < kakium69> anyway it's layout issue and those GNDs are tied somewhere?
2022-04-08T01:23:32 < karlp> yeah, tied internally as well.
2022-04-08T01:24:03 < karlp> it's starting to lok ok. first time I've done meaningful work in a while on this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wSK80.png
2022-04-08T01:26:45 < kakium69> it can be separated and agnd left not connected to gnd?
2022-04-08T01:26:52 < kakium69> just internally connected
2022-04-08T01:26:55 < kakium69> makes no sense
2022-04-08T01:28:25 < kakium69> for AGND you would want the bestest gnd reference
2022-04-08T01:31:14 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgFN5ohct4k it's finnish psytrance time
2022-04-08T01:37:30 < upgrdman> c pros: i have a function, how do i pass it a pointer to an array of structs, and how do i access those structs within the function?
2022-04-08T01:37:34 < upgrdman> i thought i could do:
2022-04-08T01:37:40 < kakium69> karlp: maybe it's about how AC signals work. when you tie 2 planes in one point it's connected but not same planes in terms of signal
2022-04-08T01:37:47 < kakium69> something AC magics
2022-04-08T01:38:04 < upgrdman> void myFunction(struct foo* myFoos) { myFoos[0].someInt = 1; }
2022-04-08T01:38:13 < upgrdman> but it doesnt work :/
2022-04-08T01:39:03 < kakium69> what does it say?
2022-04-08T01:40:04 < kakium69> karlp: "IC analog ground (A GND ), pin 16, should have a single
2022-04-08T01:40:05 < kakium69> connection to PGND . The A GND ground plane connected
2022-04-08T01:40:05 < kakium69> to pin16 helps to keep AGND quiet and improves noise
2022-04-08T01:40:06 < kakium69> immunit"
2022-04-08T01:40:35 < kakium69> > should have a single connection to PGND
2022-04-08T01:42:33 < karlp> yeah, presumably on the conencted plane they draw in that first image I linked
2022-04-08T01:43:20 < karlp> I've currently tied them directly together in .sch and will just "follow the rules" in pcb land
2022-04-08T01:47:20 < kakium69> yep.. make a separate fill for AGND.. I don't know how you get the PGND to extend over AGND fill maybe just by not drawing it there or fencing it off with keepout
2022-04-08T01:47:56 < karlp> nah, just short them in sch, so kicad thinks it's all the same net.
2022-04-08T01:48:06 < karlp> then I'll just "follow the datasheet" for actualyl doing it.
2022-04-08T01:49:34 < kakium69> I'm thinking about the layout how to have general fill and a detail inside the general fill.. when both are same net
2022-04-08T01:49:50 < kakium69> upgrdman: what did the compiler say?
2022-04-08T01:52:10 < kakium69> upgrdman: try typedefing the struct first. typedef struct structname { stuff } typename_t;
2022-04-08T01:52:25 < kakium69> then use the type instead
2022-04-08T01:53:22 < upgrdman> hmm typedef fixed it
2022-04-08T01:53:49 < kakium69> okay I'm never using struct without typedef now
2022-04-08T01:54:24 < kakium69> typedef struct wins
2022-04-08T01:55:03 < kakium69> upgrdman: you try stuff outside javaland?
2022-04-08T01:55:45 < upgrdman> kakium69, ya. the java webcam libraries suck ass, so im writing my own webcam library (with hookers and blow...)
2022-04-08T01:56:17 < kakium69> cool
2022-04-08T01:56:42 < upgrdman> so im writing some c/cpp to interact with DirectShow. that'll compile down to a DLL which i can poke from Java.
2022-04-08T01:57:33 < upgrdman> and java is finally getting a less painful way to interact with c/cpp code. not painless, but less painful. good enough, i hope.
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2022-04-08T02:01:34 < kakium69> what is use for webcam?
2022-04-08T02:03:31 < upgrdman> kakium69, stuff like this https://youtu.be/FqfgBnCdrTo?t=23
2022-04-08T02:04:07 < kakium69> ah indeed
2022-04-08T02:08:20 < upgrdman> i'd like to one day also integrate some OpenCV or whatever, and be able to point a camera at something, and extract numbers from the image. like point it at a bench power supply, and have OpenCV reading the voltage and current from the images
2022-04-08T02:08:55 < kakium69> there are many types of displays
2022-04-08T02:09:01 < upgrdman> 7-segment LEDs should be trivial to read from a camera. analog meters should be doable, not sure how difficult tho
2022-04-08T02:09:15 < kakium69> displaying many types of values
2022-04-08T02:09:34 < kakium69> interesting idea
2022-04-08T02:10:06 < kakium69> but as an integral part of telemetryviewer?
2022-04-08T02:10:25 < upgrdman> ya. it's not high on my to-do list, but i've been thinking about it
2022-04-08T02:11:29 < upgrdman> and it'd be a nice excuse to learn computer vision / machine learning / BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY ... ok not that last one
2022-04-08T02:12:24 < kakium69> soon telemetryviewer will be mining coins?
2022-04-08T02:12:46 < kakium69> and taking over the world
2022-04-08T02:13:10 < upgrdman> diamond hands
2022-04-08T02:14:18 < upgrdman> i wonder how painful the webcam api's on linux are
2022-04-08T02:14:50 < upgrdman> i actually started on this venture because the java web cam lib i use doesnt work on pi 4 aarch64
2022-04-08T02:15:29 < kakium69> idk.. maybe open /dev/videosomething
2022-04-08T02:17:39 < kakium69> https://askubuntu.com/questions/348838/how-to-check-available-webcams-from-the-command-line
2022-04-08T02:18:36 < kakium69> v4l = video4linux
2022-04-08T02:21:08 < kakium69> Steffann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVtJGobSZKM musics
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2022-04-08T12:06:34 < zyp> damn, I fucking hate the entirety of the motor control SDK
2022-04-08T12:08:52 < zyp> so I've got a motor hooked up to a EVSPIN32G4, nice hardware and all, but I'm not getting paid to write my own motor control firmware so I grab the X-CUBE-MCSDK package
2022-04-08T12:09:39 < zyp> it has a motor pilot tool that can control it, which is utter shit and refuses to run in a windows VM, so I had to go dig up a windows laptop to run it
2022-04-08T12:09:54 < zyp> so okay, that works and looks reasonable enough
2022-04-08T12:11:06 < zyp> the protocol it's using is undocumented, but reverse engineering it looks faster than adding my own protocol handler to the board, so I go and do that, I only need to talk to this from a second STM32
2022-04-08T12:12:07 < zyp> and I got all of that working and integrated and the mechanics assembled, and the remaining part now is to get the motor parameters tuned because it's not starting/running properly
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2022-04-08T12:13:00 < zyp> so I hack up an ACM to UART bridge so I can point the motor pilot software at my STM32 and have it relay the traffic
2022-04-08T12:13:29 < zyp> and motor pilot is still being shit, it's failing to negotiate the connection
2022-04-08T12:13:53 < zyp> motor pilot logs shows it sends one packet, gets a response, sends second packet, times out
2022-04-08T12:14:20 < karlp> kakium69: how could a typedef possibly have fixed upgrdman's issue?!
2022-04-08T12:14:21 < zyp> usb device logs shows it received one packet, sent a response, received another packet, sent another response
2022-04-08T12:14:38 < zyp> second response is still sitting in the transfer buffer waiting for the host to poll for it
2022-04-08T12:15:36 < zyp> so apparently motor pilot is not even managing to tell windows that it's waiting for serial data before timing out
2022-04-08T12:16:27 < karlp> is this the shit that wouldn't even work in a windows vm for some reason?
2022-04-08T12:16:30 < karlp> sounds gross
2022-04-08T12:16:31 < zyp> yes
2022-04-08T12:17:06 < zyp> it's some qml shit so they could probably easily build a linux version if they wanted to, but fuck linux users, right
2022-04-08T12:18:04 < karlp> these days even just mac users help drive the portable versions :)
2022-04-08T12:19:39 < zyp> on the other hand I'm getting to do a bunch of fun async stuff in this project, I based it on laks v2
2022-04-08T12:22:10 < zyp> haven't ported the USB stack to async yet, but the ACM IN handler is an async task: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/dqzXN
2022-04-08T12:29:21 < zyp> okay, I grabbed a FTDI adapter instead, that shit works
2022-04-08T12:30:29 < ventYl> fuck. qml.
2022-04-08T12:30:37 < ventYl> i've been hacking one qml-based project last days
2022-04-08T12:30:45 < ventYl> tons. of. signals.
2022-04-08T12:31:37 < zyp> haha
2022-04-08T12:33:33 < karlp> hrm, plastic housing vendor just emailed us to let us know there was new sales manager for southern italy.....
2022-04-08T12:34:20 < zyp> I've got a second problem as well, regenerated power has nowhere to go, so the bus voltage rises, and the 24V supply doesn't like that and drops out
2022-04-08T12:35:30 < karlp> motors sound like so muhc fun...
2022-04-08T12:36:39 < karlp> sounds like the grid here though, "pot went out at the smelter, grid freq went up to 51.5"
2022-04-08T12:36:45 < zyp> they are, it's just all the other stuff that's shit
2022-04-08T12:37:22 < zyp> I don't want/need to regen, just not sure how to tell firmware that
2022-04-08T12:37:59 < ventYl> what's the difference in control pattern of motor w and w/o regen?
2022-04-08T12:38:47 < ventYl> it's something like w/regen = set up magnetic field so that it will drag rotor to decelerate and no regen = do nothing ?
2022-04-08T12:39:05 < zyp> something like that
2022-04-08T12:39:31 < jpa-> zyp: if the motor is not huge, just stick zener on the 24V rail
2022-04-08T12:40:02 < zyp> it's 220W or so :)
2022-04-08T12:40:16 < ventYl> look, a lightbulb!
2022-04-08T12:45:46 < karlp> so, a guy working for the grid here has an article in the paper today about ground cables vs aerial cabling, and he's made the clain that a ground cable can "interfere" with the grid when it's turned on, because of "reactive power"
2022-04-08T12:45:51 < karlp> and I found this: https://www.amprion.net/Transmission-System/Technology/Underground-cable/Underground-AC-cables.html
2022-04-08T12:46:07 < karlp> but it doesn't make _any_ explanation for me why this is different for a cable in the ground vs in the air?
2022-04-08T12:47:00 < karlp> so this certainly seems to be "an issue" but grid operators sure as shit seem to be doing a poor job of explaining it?
2022-04-08T12:49:12 < karlp> hrm, stack exchange might have it: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/344063
2022-04-08T12:49:38 < karlp> "ground is closer" when you're in the ground.
2022-04-08T12:50:07 < jpa-> yeah, ground cables have a lot more capacitance, so flipping the switch gives a nice transient
2022-04-08T12:51:30 < karlp> this dude here is also claiming that laying one cable in an area can cause such interference that you can't lay any others in the area as well, which seems way out there though.
2022-04-08T12:51:56 < karlp> this extra capacitance shouldn't hve any bearing on that, unless they just mean, "can only handle so much extra capacitance total" ?
2022-04-08T12:52:27 < karlp> there's some place where they want to put in 3km of 220kV underground, and it will "prevent" putting in 40km of 66kV
2022-04-08T12:54:11 < zyp> okay, I think the regenerated power spike just killed my 5V reg, awesome
2022-04-08T12:55:39 < zyp> hmm, either that or something else died and is shorting the 5V rail
2022-04-08T13:02:19 < karlp> hrm, this underground cabling capacitance is a much bigger issue than I thought it was.
2022-04-08T13:02:20 < qyx> karlp: and that's why we should use DC!
2022-04-08T13:02:25 < karlp> they've done a _shit_ job of presenting this.
2022-04-08T13:02:45 < qyx> why is it not an issue for underwater cables?
2022-04-08T13:02:45 < karlp> they talk about installation costs and then sort of go "blah blah blah were not doing it"
2022-04-08T13:02:57 < karlp> I think it is, but there's no _option_ for over water :)
2022-04-08T13:03:00 < qyx> water has much higher permittivity than a common ground
2022-04-08T13:05:51 < karlp> geh, icelandic engineering words I don't know and can't figure out :|
2022-04-08T13:06:07 < zyp> okay, reg is dead, that's good, easiest part to replace
2022-04-08T13:14:34 < zyp> ah, I think I can enable overvoltage protection to keep it from regenerating past a given voltage, that should help as long as it doesn't make it trip out with an error
2022-04-08T13:14:50 < zyp> currently that's set to 75V, so that's not gonna help me much
2022-04-08T13:16:44 < jpa-> what is it gonna do instead? brake with slow decay mode, shunting the energy to motor windings?
2022-04-08T13:18:42 < srk> zyp: nice board but wtf .. heatsinked variant costs +100Eur?
2022-04-08T13:20:52 < karlp> ah, "ferro resonance" is the new word I didn't get :)
2022-04-08T13:21:40 < zyp> jpa-, I can choose between «Disable PWM generation» and «Turn on low side switches»
2022-04-08T13:23:42 < BrainDamage> low side switches is shunting the motor
2022-04-08T13:23:50 < zyp> yep
2022-04-08T13:24:51 < jpa-> yeah, disabling PWM generation probably will still regenerate through flyback diodes
2022-04-08T13:25:06 < jpa-> though i guess the back-emf voltage may be slow enough that it won't
2022-04-08T13:25:09 < jpa-> *low
2022-04-08T13:25:30 < jpa-> and if it doesn't, the motor will just free-wheel until bearing friction stops it
2022-04-08T13:25:46 < zyp> yeah, or the load
2022-04-08T13:26:18 < jpa-> actually having the motor doing useful work instead of just spinning it on table for fun? preposterous!
2022-04-08T13:26:23 < BrainDamage> when you leave the motor in free-running the current direction remains the same but the voltage it develops is all the BEMF it has, but the benf it was at least the immediate moment you disconnect the power is also the same it had while running
2022-04-08T13:26:47 < BrainDamage> so if the motor was in stationary condition, it pretty much flips the polarity
2022-04-08T13:27:15 < jpa-> yeah, except if you use field weakening then the BEMF can jump up once the stator field turns off
2022-04-08T13:31:19 < zyp> okay, let's try shunting it
2022-04-08T13:38:30 < zyp> nope, now it's tripping first overvoltage then overcurrent
2022-04-08T13:46:37 < srk> fuck, I'm wondering what's going on with OUT1/BOOT1 and VM going directly into MCU and it isn't just MCU lol
2022-04-08T13:48:44 < zyp> in disable pwm mode, it's only tripping overvoltage, not overcurrent
2022-04-08T13:48:55 < zyp> but yeah, either way this is unusable like this
2022-04-08T13:50:44 < zyp> not sure I can convince speed controller to not apply negative torque, so maybe I should just run it in torque mode with an external PID
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2022-04-08T15:22:15 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, shunting to brake will cause very large current spikes
2022-04-08T15:23:00 < jpa-> even in velocity mode, you could just apply a reasonable acceleration profile instead of commanding speed to 0 suddenly
2022-04-08T15:30:19 < zyp> I'm not commanding speed to 0, it's tripping overvoltage just from overshoot when spinning up to speed
2022-04-08T15:30:44 < zyp> but fuck that, I'll run it in torque
2022-04-08T15:31:09 < zyp> I've already got the PID controller from earlier when I ran pwm to a H bridge for a brushed motor
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2022-04-08T15:53:16 < jpa-> zyp: are you commanding speed up too suddenly?
2022-04-08T15:56:15 < drzacek> hello there
2022-04-08T15:57:50 < drzacek> I'm trying to use uart1 on my nucleol452re-p but having trouble. Wrote pretty simple code, periodic UART Transmit (no it/dma), 32byte buffer, big timeout parameter. Left the default settings in mx config, compiles fine, in debugger it goes nicely (returns HAL_OK), but it doesn't transmit anything
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2022-04-08T15:58:13 < drzacek> got osciloscope hooked on the tx pin (tried rx pin, in case of the wrong labeling or whatever), nothing. dead. zero
2022-04-08T15:58:16 < zyp> jpa-, it's a PID controller that I haven't tuned yet
2022-04-08T15:58:17 < drzacek> what am I doing wrong?
2022-04-08T15:59:00 < zyp> but I don't wanna spend time tuning it either if I can't tell it not to apply active braking
2022-04-08T15:59:09 < jpa-> drzacek: have you configured the TX pin to AFIO mode and set the alternate function index to match the UART you use?
2022-04-08T15:59:27 < drzacek> nope and nope
2022-04-08T16:00:02 < drzacek> checking in cubemx, it has by default the alternate function push-pull on rx/tx
2022-04-08T16:01:31 < drzacek> config identical to uart2, the one set up by default for nucleo board, which works fine when I communicate with PC/USB/Putty
2022-04-08T16:02:02 < jpa-> when you read back the USART registers, do they have the values you expect?
2022-04-08T16:03:25 < drzacek> :(
2022-04-08T16:04:31 < jpa-> i'm sorry, it appears my help is making you sad; please ignore it and continue banging randomly at cube, it's the modern way of programming
2022-04-08T16:04:50 < karlp> blah, No rule to make target `../gecko_sdk_4.0.2/platform/radio/rail_lib/plugin/pa-conversions/pa_curves_efr32.c',
2022-04-08T16:04:58 < karlp> internal shit exploding and spraying guts everywhere.
2022-04-08T16:09:20 < drzacek> jpa-, well excuse, I thought that it is the official IDE and official way of working with stm32, main reason why I even using it
2022-04-08T16:09:42 < karlp> does an example work?
2022-04-08T16:09:44 < drzacek> and I dont bang randomly, I am using the usual setting that work in other cases
2022-04-08T16:09:55 < karlp> so you have it "working in other casese" ?
2022-04-08T16:09:59 < jpa-> drzacek: but we are not the official channel :)
2022-04-08T16:09:59 < karlp> what other case, what is different now?
2022-04-08T16:10:02 < drzacek> yeah, usart2
2022-04-08T16:10:35 < karlp> is usart1 and usart2 routed appropriately on the board? it's not going anywhere else? like to the stlink or something?
2022-04-08T16:10:43 < karlp> do you need to change jumpers or solder jumpers to use it?
2022-04-08T16:10:46 < jpa-> the only real way to debug things is to look at what actually happens, such as checking peripheral registers
2022-04-08T16:10:53 < drzacek> usart2 is going to the stlink, yeah
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2022-04-08T16:18:05 < karlp> ah well then, that went well.
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2022-04-08T16:18:52 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 79 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 79 normal]
2022-04-08T16:18:55 < jpa-> 79 more to go
2022-04-08T16:19:16 < karlp> lol
2022-04-08T16:19:19 < Steffanx> Bye jpa- . Farewell
2022-04-08T16:19:54 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'm not that easy, you will have to burn me about failing to complete useless work for an insignificant project that doesn't even matter but makes me feel crappy
2022-04-08T16:20:08 < Steffanx> I never expected jpa- to be such bully
2022-04-08T16:20:20 < Steffanx> Lets check essentials crap
2022-04-08T16:20:28 < jpa-> not even after i managed to bully r2com out of the channel?
2022-04-08T16:20:55 < Steffanx> LOL. The good times of ##stm33
2022-04-08T16:20:57 < Steffanx> 32
2022-04-08T16:21:44 < Steffanx> And what about tct?
2022-04-08T16:22:06 < karlp> ok, thought I was in some weird borkage changing targets to a different dev board, but no, on this computer, building what I committed at work yesterday is still failing with absurd internal guts of silabs.
2022-04-08T16:22:22 < karlp> not a great week, I'm literalyl swearing out loud at the computer.
2022-04-08T16:23:09 < Steffanx> Time for a weekend on the 2nd house without Internet karlp
2022-04-08T16:23:14 < Steffanx> In*
2022-04-08T16:23:26 < karlp> that doesn't make it go away at all, just leaves it hanging over my head
2022-04-08T16:24:08 < Steffanx> Burn the trash and never look back then
2022-04-08T16:24:29 < ventYl> work is not dick, can wait for three days
2022-04-08T16:24:47 < karlp> well, it's still work hours right now :)
2022-04-08T16:25:01 < karlp> I j ust want to _work_ not fight with basic things
2022-04-08T16:25:19 < karlp> I have a lot of "plain old app development" I wnt to be working on, not fighting this sort of bullshit
2022-04-08T16:25:44 < karlp> should have swallowed a week a month or two ago and fixed up openocd support instead of "it's ok, I?m using protools now, everything will be fine"
2022-04-08T16:25:57 < Steffanx> Or pass it on to jpa- and make him feel useful
2022-04-08T16:26:19 < jpa-> no, nobody pass me any more projects, i'm already full to my throat of projects :|
2022-04-08T16:26:34 < ventYl> after all the bullshit which nrf52 caused me, I found out, that thread switcher mechanism in my RTOS is not working. while up until now there was only one thread, I don't know if it was working before, or not
2022-04-08T16:27:35 < ventYl> one positive outcome of this finding is, that I finally pursued myself to write some automated HW testing utility
2022-04-08T16:36:48 < Steffanx> How's the progress of the owon dmm project jpa- ?
2022-04-08T16:37:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: i've written a lot of fancy C++ classes that do nothing useful, then i've left the project be
2022-04-08T16:38:13 < Steffanx> Oh dear.. dont you want to be on HaD anymore?
2022-04-08T16:39:43 < jpa-> maybe eventually, but ##stm32 has been passing me too many projects that pay and i've only refused some of them
2022-04-08T16:41:15 < jpa-> so my day schedule is nowadays 1. work for 4 hours 2. feel miserable for 20 hours 3. repeat
2022-04-08T16:42:29 < sauce> big mood
2022-04-08T16:44:22 < karlp> want to do some extra silabs work for me too? :) I promise it will feel good :)
2022-04-08T16:44:58 < karlp> ssv5 has a "copy build log" button, which... doesn't copy it to the clip board,
2022-04-08T16:45:04 < karlp> it "saves" it to a file.
2022-04-08T16:45:14 < karlp> but .... you have to pick... _the file_ to save to.
2022-04-08T16:45:20 < karlp> so it has to be an existing file...
2022-04-08T16:45:30 < karlp> they're out of their fucking minds.
2022-04-08T17:04:11 < c10ud> ahah
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2022-04-08T17:17:38 < Posterdati> hi\
2022-04-08T17:19:28 < Posterdati> please help, I've got a problem runnin baremetal implementation on st,32f407vgt: I'm compiling with g++ (arm-none-eabi) and provided a __libc_init_array, when the cpu executes the loop around __init_array_start it crashes returning from the last function with blx r3. Thanks for any help!
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2022-04-08T17:28:24 < Posterdati> :)
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2022-04-08T17:44:27 < jpa-> Posterdati: what does the SCB->CFSR tell for the crash reason? is your stack pointer reasonable when you view it in debugger after crash?
2022-04-08T17:44:36 < jpa-> what is the value of r3 when it returns?
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2022-04-08T17:45:08 < Posterdati> ok, wait
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2022-04-08T17:49:44 < kakium69> karlp: idk.. maybe his struct was wrong
2022-04-08T17:50:04 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVtJGobSZKM musics
2022-04-08T17:56:06 < Posterdati> jpa-: it points to Default_Handler which is basically a for(;;) {}
2022-04-08T17:56:48 < kakium69> what does for(;;){} do?
2022-04-08T17:57:02 < kakium69> does that compile?
2022-04-08T17:57:38 < Steffanx> Try it.
2022-04-08T17:58:30 < kakium69> no
2022-04-08T17:58:46 < kakium69> okay
2022-04-08T17:59:27 < kakium69> it does while(1)
2022-04-08T17:59:35 < Posterdati> #define FOREVER for(;;)
2022-04-08T17:59:43 < Posterdati> #define FOREVER for ( ; ; )
2022-04-08T18:00:03 < Posterdati> it's a way to define an infinite loop
2022-04-08T18:00:51 < kakium69> why would you write while(1); like that
2022-04-08T18:02:08 < specing> l:goto l;
2022-04-08T18:02:53 < specing> hmm, for(;;); is still shorter
2022-04-08T18:03:35 < Posterdati> jpa-: now r3 is 0x08000198 = <_GLOBAL__sub_I__ZN9__gnu_cxx9__freeresEv>
2022-04-08T18:04:09 < Posterdati> what is it a call to malloc???
2022-04-08T18:05:16 < Posterdati> I did not use operator new or malloc in the code it is all statically defined
2022-04-08T18:08:11 < kakium69> do you use standard library?
2022-04-08T18:08:27 < Posterdati> no
2022-04-08T18:09:04 < Posterdati> mmmh wait
2022-04-08T18:09:11 < Posterdati> -nostdlib missing :)
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2022-04-08T18:13:30 < Posterdati> jpa-: the stack pointer is ok
2022-04-08T18:14:28 < karlp> blx, isn't that the famous indicator you built something in arm mode?
2022-04-08T18:14:49 < karlp> or does thumb allow _some_ blx operands?
2022-04-08T18:15:42 < Posterdati> on the other functions it is ok
2022-04-08T18:16:07 < karlp> zypsnips/armv7m-vecstate.gdb....
2022-04-08T18:19:15 < jpa-> blx to register is ok IMO
2022-04-08T18:19:22 < Posterdati> yes
2022-04-08T18:19:42 < Posterdati> UFSR = 0x00020000
2022-04-08T18:21:35 < Posterdati> which is the reserved part of USRF
2022-04-08T18:24:16 < karlp> no, you're looking at it wrong :)
2022-04-08T18:24:20 < karlp> right shfit 16...
2022-04-08T18:24:27 < karlp> (use the vecstate gdb macros....)
2022-04-08T18:26:08 < Posterdati> ?
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2022-04-08T18:28:37 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb
2022-04-08T18:29:34 < karlp> I've got one or two extra bits for v8m I've added at work, but I'm still testing a few of them before I push it..
2022-04-08T18:32:57 < Posterdati> no it is correct
2022-04-08T18:33:26 < Posterdati> CFSR = 0x20000000
2022-04-08T18:34:20 < Posterdati> ok
2022-04-08T18:34:27 < Posterdati> the problem is INVSTATE
2022-04-08T18:34:35 < Posterdati> the blx instruction
2022-04-08T18:40:12 < Posterdati> should __libc_init_array be declared naked???
2022-04-08T18:45:51 < karlp> if you want to be writing this shit yourself by hand, you need to work out how to find out that stuff yourself.
2022-04-08T18:56:53 < mawk> libc_init_array is defined by the compiler runtime, no?
2022-04-08T18:57:00 < mawk> why are you trying to define it
2022-04-08T18:57:06 < mawk> you might want to declare it to use it
2022-04-08T18:57:11 < karlp> because they aren't including the compiler runtime...
2022-04-08T18:57:16 < mawk> in which case it's just an extern array symbol
2022-04-08T18:57:36 < mawk> I mean it's defined by the compiler itself
2022-04-08T18:58:00 < mawk> and used by the C runtime, which isn't present here
2022-04-08T18:58:15 < mawk> so to use it you have to declare it then loop over it to start all functions in it
2022-04-08T19:02:37 < karlp> 14:19 <Posterdati> please help, I've got a problem runnin baremetal implementation on st,32f407vgt: I'm compiling with g++ (arm-none-eabi) and provided a __libc_init_array, when the cpu executes the loop around __init_array_start it crashes returning from the last function with blx r3. Thanks for any help!
2022-04-08T19:02:43 < karlp> they claim to have done that...
2022-04-08T19:05:41 < karlp> so, make a new project, import all old files => works again.
2022-04-08T19:05:45 < karlp> fuck y ou ssv5.
2022-04-08T19:07:52 < ventYl> Posterdati: better get some standard library, if you can't, then sit down, drink coffe and decide to get grab some, if you can't then repeat until you want
2022-04-08T19:08:24 < ventYl> it sucks just to debug this, writing it from scratch is major PITA
2022-04-08T19:08:45 < Steffanx> And a nice exercise
2022-04-08T19:09:38 < ventYl> if there is no standard library, there is presumably also no HAL
2022-04-08T19:10:12 < ventYl> that may be an exercise, but not nice one
2022-04-08T19:10:29 < karlp> here's how locm3 does it: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cm3/vector.c#L85-L90 with https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cortex-m-generic.ld#L53-L67
2022-04-08T19:10:58 < karlp> (you're aware that you linker script has to correspond to your startup files right? they're not mix and match....)
2022-04-08T19:23:32 < karlp> hrm, can I have MALLOC_HOOKS with a prebuilt toolchain? or do I really have to recompile newlib for that?
2022-04-08T19:24:09 < karlp> hehe, "p __<tab><tab>" locks up gdb to 100% cpu while it looks for completions :)
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2022-04-08T19:28:11 < mawk> you can do malloc_hooks with a regular glibc
2022-04-08T19:28:18 < mawk> so I would tend to say you don't need recompilation
2022-04-08T19:28:22 < mawk> but newlib might be different
2022-04-08T19:37:02 < karlp> doesn't seem to be available for me with my current newlib at least.
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2022-04-08T20:57:36 < karlp> lol, thought I was making progress, but no.... you can't paint _all_ of ram, that kinda tramples bss and data :)
2022-04-08T20:57:39 < karlp> bad idea: memset(0x20000000, 0x33, 32768);
2022-04-08T21:04:47 < mawk> you can paint all the ram before your program starts
2022-04-08T21:05:00 < mawk> but some code may rely on bss being zero initialized
2022-04-08T21:05:03 < mawk> as the spec mandates
2022-04-08T21:05:49 < mawk> although usually the program does that by itself so it will just remove what you put in bsa
2022-04-08T21:05:52 < mawk> bss
2022-04-08T21:09:34 < karlp> yeah, I can do the full painting before data gets loaded and shit.
2022-04-08T21:09:43 < karlp> it's not just bss remember, it's also data.
2022-04-08T21:10:11 < mawk> yeah indeed
2022-04-08T21:12:47 < karlp> hrm, "info reg" isn't showing me the rest of the v8 regs. I've tried to tighten up some shit and now I get a v8m stack overflow, which is controlled by some "SPLIM" registers...
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2022-04-08T21:51:11 < Posterdati> karlp, jpa-: removed all the handmade stuff and linked to newlib, seems to work now!
2022-04-08T22:39:10 < bitmask> damn, where is my sheet of lead
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2022-04-08T23:27:08 < BrainDamage> in the pile of groceries, in the pantry
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--- Day changed la huhti 09 2022
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2022-04-09T00:24:34 < kakium69> hello night crew
2022-04-09T00:25:00 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a library or module that is commonly used for communication with embedded hardware? Ie. sending commands+data over serial port to microcontroller to have it perform certain actions? I assume something like [magic-byte] + [cmd] + [len] + [data] + [crc] is probably sufficient, but is there a library or a good example to take a look at? For example the one that accounts for aborting
2022-04-09T00:25:00 < ColdKeyboard> transmission, if host doesn't sent entire lenth (ie. comm issue). Any suggestions come to mind?
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2022-04-09T00:30:47 < kakium69> usually just create one
2022-04-09T00:34:06 < qyx> I am usually using a plain text comms, something like NMEA
2022-04-09T00:34:25 < qyx> no binary, len, etc. we are not in 1990 anymore communicating over 1200 baud ports
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2022-04-09T00:37:16 < zyp> I've used protobuf/nanopb before
2022-04-09T00:38:06 < zyp> and there's also messagepack
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2022-04-09T00:38:34 < PaulFertser> Modbus is still a thing too.
2022-04-09T00:38:39 < kakium69> XML
2022-04-09T00:39:31 < zyp> I'd advise separating framing from encoding
2022-04-09T00:40:21 < zyp> for serial you need a framing layer, but e.g. for usb or udp you get framing by the underlying protocol
2022-04-09T00:41:27 < zyp> by separating framing from encoding, you can use the same message encoding anywhere and just add a framing layer if the transport lacks one (like serial)
2022-04-09T00:44:35 < specing> kakium69: /troll
2022-04-09T00:45:43 < zyp> as for framing, I recommend SLIP style frame delimiters/escape bytes
2022-04-09T00:49:25 < zyp> I'm not a fan of length fields in the framing layer; if it gets fucked up and telling you to read a ton of bytes, you're stuck reading garbage until you've read that many bytes
2022-04-09T00:50:04 < zyp> with delimiter/escape style framing, if you go out of sync somewhere, you'll recover as soon as you get the next delimiter
2022-04-09T00:51:38 < zyp> if you want validation, you can add a header magic, length, checksum or whatever in a separate validation layer above the framing, below the encoding
2022-04-09T00:52:26 < mawk> ColdKeyboard: TLV encoding is maybe the name of what you're looking for
2022-04-09T00:52:27 < zyp> that way you can still use the length field for validation, check that the received length from the framing layer match
2022-04-09T00:53:55 < mawk> then for specific implementations you have protobuf rpc for instance, or for a very small library suited for embedded you have https://capnproto.org/ maybe
2022-04-09T00:54:12 < mawk> or do something custom
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2022-04-09T01:48:42 < t4nk_freenode> zyp, do you happen to know if I could use some diy jtag programmer to program the colorlight board?
2022-04-09T01:49:17 < t4nk_freenode> aint got one of those ft2232h or blaster thingies or whatever it all is
2022-04-09T01:49:47 < t4nk_freenode> but now some ppl are using the board with linuxcnc, which is kind of kewl
2022-04-09T01:49:55 < t4nk_freenode> thought I might have a go
2022-04-09T01:53:00 < zyp> so what do you got?
2022-04-09T01:53:54 < t4nk_freenode> ehm, I got a 5A-75B, v7
2022-04-09T01:54:09 < t4nk_freenode> and... some stm32s?
2022-04-09T01:54:36 < t4nk_freenode> some pics, for what it's worth ;)
2022-04-09T01:54:56 < zyp> maybe hack up one of these: https://trabucayre.github.io/openFPGALoader/compatibility/cable.html
2022-04-09T01:55:06 < zyp> there's a couple of stm32 based things in the list
2022-04-09T01:55:26 < zyp> e.g. this: https://github.com/jeanthom/DirtyJTAG
2022-04-09T01:56:14 < t4nk_freenode> https://github.com/benitoss/ColorLight_FPGA_boards here it talks about recommended programmers, and it says that some others are 'too slow',
2022-04-09T01:56:28 < t4nk_freenode> but not if it would mean that they would work or not
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2022-04-09T01:57:38 < zyp> «too slow (It spends more than 1 minute)»
2022-04-09T01:57:46 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, lol
2022-04-09T01:57:51 < zyp> so yeah, that's all up to how impatient you are
2022-04-09T01:58:50 < t4nk_freenode> I think I wouldn't mind too much ;)
2022-04-09T01:58:56 < zyp> unless you've got something very trivial in the fpga, you're gonna spend that long on synth and pnr as well, so it's not gonna matter too much
2022-04-09T01:59:17 < zyp> but if you're gonna iterate a lot you're gonna want to save that time :p
2022-04-09T02:00:15 < t4nk_freenode> it's an interesting development though; the board popping up in conjunction with linuxcnc!
2022-04-09T02:00:16 < t4nk_freenode> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/44422-colorcnc-colorlight-5a-75e-5a-75b-as-fpga-controller-board?start=0
2022-04-09T02:00:33 < t4nk_freenode> that's what I'd call useful
2022-04-09T02:01:15 < zyp> I've been meaning to do some similar stuff with an i5
2022-04-09T02:01:34 < t4nk_freenode> cnc you mean?
2022-04-09T02:02:18 < t4nk_freenode> I've been running linuxcnc through an stm32 and a pi a while back
2022-04-09T02:02:37 < zyp> yeah, kinda, I'm gonna make a replacement board for the cpu board of my fanuc robot
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2022-04-09T02:04:33 < zyp> original cpu board doesn't boot, but it's from 95 or so anyway so there's limits to how fun that can be
2022-04-09T02:05:20 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, by way of exception I've been watching some youtube just now, some eps of
2022-04-09T02:05:25 < t4nk_freenode> the 8-bit guy
2022-04-09T02:05:59 < zyp> so I'm planning to keep the rest of the stuff (power electronics and so on), and just replace the cpu board with something that'll act as a six-channel motor drive over something ethercat-like
2022-04-09T02:06:15 < t4nk_freenode> anyhow, I'll have a look at those pages, see what I can do with it.
2022-04-09T02:06:22 < zyp> the i5 fits the bill as a cheap fpga module with dual ethernet ports
2022-04-09T02:06:25 < t4nk_freenode> thnx for the hints
2022-04-09T02:07:33 < t4nk_freenode> ah, hang on, 'colorlight' was not misspelled
2022-04-09T02:07:49 < zyp> if I can make that work, I can do the rest of the hard robot math elsewhere and just stream references/feedback over ethernet
2022-04-09T02:08:18 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, that's nice
2022-04-09T02:11:04 < t4nk_freenode> heh, I believe that 'led driver board' of mine is now being sold as 'lattice fpga development board' now ;)
2022-04-09T02:11:15 < t4nk_freenode> on ali, for extra cash
2022-04-09T02:27:12 < t4nk_freenode> hey, zyp, I just looked up sth about fanuc robots.. I thought yo were talking about a toy ;)
2022-04-09T02:27:24 < t4nk_freenode> how big is it?
2022-04-09T02:28:02 < t4nk_freenode> and like how strong
2022-04-09T02:34:01 < t4nk_freenode> been thinking about adding another axis to my machine, but I figure it would ruin stability
2022-04-09T02:35:19 < t4nk_freenode> gotta visit the hardware shop tomorrow, I'm in the midst of a big upgrade to my machine, it's gonna be nice.
2022-04-09T02:35:55 < t4nk_freenode> lol, anyhow, thnx again, I think that openfpgaloader will work
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2022-04-09T02:58:57 < ColdKeyboard> mawk I think TLV is similar to what I have right now.
2022-04-09T02:59:22 < ColdKeyboard> zyp I would like to avoid having to escape characters so SLIP is fine but I don't think it's a good fit
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2022-04-09T03:01:51 < ColdKeyboard> Or maybe it is, I would just have to always escape that character and have timeout before I start processing the package...
2022-04-09T03:04:47 < ColdKeyboard> For example I would like to be able to send arbitraty binary values ie. set PWM value, TIM value and so on. And if I have escape character, then every time you want to use a value of 0x0D, you would have to escape it and send one extra byte
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2022-04-09T07:25:31 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: for framing, i've looked at https://github.com/MightyPork/TinyFrame and https://github.com/lexus2k/tinyproto which seem reasonable
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2022-04-09T08:58:52 < mawk> ColdKeyboard you can have an escape sequence that is less likely to be in the data
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2022-04-09T11:09:59 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, that's the point
2022-04-09T11:10:23 < zyp> if you're using escape bytes, you can be certain that the delimiters are actually delimiters, since they won't appear in the middle of a packet
2022-04-09T11:10:52 < zyp> error recovery gets harder if your delimiters can also appear in the middle of data
2022-04-09T11:13:24 < zyp> on a serial link without flow control, one end can start transmitting before the other is listening, so once you start listening you only get the last half
2022-04-09T11:13:56 < zyp> or if one end is restarted in the middle of a packet, you'll have a half sent or half received packet somewhere
2022-04-09T11:15:28 < jpa-> error recovery is pretty rare anyway, and looking for next start-of-frame delimiter and checking checksum is pretty ok, at least if start-of-frame is 2 bytes
2022-04-09T11:16:13 < zyp> connecting in the middle of a transfer is not all that rare IMO
2022-04-09T11:16:28 < jpa-> it is still just once per connection
2022-04-09T11:17:30 < zyp> still, it's good to design something that won't shit itself and get stuck when you need to do error recovery
2022-04-09T11:17:52 < zyp> if you make error recovery too complicated, you'll just ignore it and hope errors won't happen
2022-04-09T11:17:58 < jpa-> sure, it is even mandatory, but that does not require reserved bytes
2022-04-09T11:18:13 < zyp> no, but it sure makes it easier
2022-04-09T11:18:14 < jpa-> error recovery with no reserved bytes is really not much different than error recovery with reserved bytes
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2022-04-09T11:19:54 < jpa-> in either case you look for next start of frame and try to receive a packet starting from there
2022-04-09T11:20:43 < jpa-> and even with reserved bytes, you should be prepared for bit errors causing false delimiter or other errors, so you can't blindly trust e.g. length field and get stuck receiving 4 GB
2022-04-09T11:21:16 < zyp> how about the case when you have the start of frame token as part of data, so the receiver tries to sync to that, reads garbage as length, and is reading into the following packet, and then once checksum fails it tries again, other end retransmit so it still attempts syncing to the same bytes in data and does the same over and over again
2022-04-09T11:22:03 < jpa-> when checksum fails, it will skip to the next start of frame after the first start of frame - eventually it will hit a real packet
2022-04-09T11:22:56 < jpa-> that does require having enough RAM to store a complete packet - but that is usually true anyway if you want to verify checksum before processing contents
2022-04-09T11:23:43 < zyp> fair enough
2022-04-09T11:24:06 < zyp> length field is still problematic if you're waiting to read that many bytes before checking the checksum
2022-04-09T11:24:13 < jpa-> the nicest thing with reserved bytes is that you don't need length field
2022-04-09T11:24:21 < jpa-> yeah
2022-04-09T11:24:22 < zyp> yes
2022-04-09T11:24:40 < zyp> IMO length fields should be used for verifying, not delimiting
2022-04-09T11:24:43 < zyp> if at all
2022-04-09T11:25:20 < jpa-> sometimes not having length field makes reception very annoying, e.g. you can't set interrupt to occur when packet is complete
2022-04-09T11:25:58 < jpa-> at typical USART speeds it's of course ok to just interrupt per every byte
2022-04-09T11:26:31 < zyp> true
2022-04-09T11:27:04 < zyp> the trick is to use something that does framing in hardware :p
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2022-04-09T11:27:56 < jpa-> USART break signal can also work as a nice delimiter, but sometimes crappy USB converters don't support it well
2022-04-09T11:28:54 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-09T11:29:13 < jpa-> one can then just set DMA to receive to a buffer and have interrupt on FE, no need for ring buffers or anything fancy
2022-04-09T11:30:00 < zyp> correction: you just set DMA to circular DMA and you've got a hardware ring buffer :)
2022-04-09T11:30:11 < jpa-> but of course the ultimate best USART protocol is poorly defined ASCII commands that are separated by \n or was it \r\n or maybe \r will work also; bonus points if you fail the length calculation and it sends \0 and the other end starts relying on it
2022-04-09T11:30:48 < zyp> I mean, ascii lines are not all that bad, you've got dedicated delimiters :)
2022-04-09T11:30:50 < jpa-> sure, you have hardware writing to ring buffer, and then anything you try to do with such buffer needs to be able to handle the wrap or you need to memcpy() it to another buffer
2022-04-09T11:31:35 < zyp> true
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2022-04-09T16:24:10 < HelloShitty> Hello. Anyone knows if I perform a `mass_erase 0` on a chip from within telnet (with openocd server running, of course) if the option bits of this chip are also reset (taken to their default values)?
2022-04-09T16:25:14 < kakium69> -c "mass_erase 0" ?
2022-04-09T16:26:14 < kakium69> i don't remember exactly you could maybe combine commands like "reset halt; mass_erase 0"
2022-04-09T16:27:41 < kakium69> hmm telnet
2022-04-09T16:27:57 < kakium69> didn't openocd have like 2-3 different ports active
2022-04-09T16:28:06 < Steffanx> And that's not his question kakium69
2022-04-09T16:28:17 < kakium69> I need to ramble
2022-04-09T16:28:22 < kakium69> badly
2022-04-09T16:28:50 < Steffanx> He wants to know what mass_erase 0 does with the option bits
2022-04-09T16:28:54 < Steffanx> And idk.
2022-04-09T16:29:35 < kakium69> read from source
2022-04-09T16:29:42 < Steffanx> Or she, dont know what HelloShitty is
2022-04-09T16:30:37 < Steffanx> Or try #openocd
2022-04-09T16:33:24 < kakium69> indeed
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2022-04-09T16:50:43 < HelloShitty> kakium69: yes
2022-04-09T16:51:03 < kakium69> what are option bits?
2022-04-09T16:51:15 < kakium69> sounds like fuses
2022-04-09T16:51:16 < HelloShitty> I'm a he
2022-04-09T16:51:43 < HelloShitty> I think mass_erase should set option bytes register to their default values
2022-04-09T16:51:53 < HelloShitty> I think this should be somewhere in the manual of the chip
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2022-04-09T17:50:49 < kakium69> what is ?_v in c++ standard library?
2022-04-09T17:51:39 < kakium69> like std::is_same vs std::is_same_v ?
2022-04-09T17:53:55 < kakium69> v stands for value?
2022-04-09T17:54:30 < kakium69> variable?
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2022-04-09T18:30:53 < kakium69> zyp?
2022-04-09T19:00:35 < kakium69> catphish: workshop?
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2022-04-09T19:12:09 < Steffanx> kakium69: sauna?
2022-04-09T19:12:41 < kakium69> yeah
2022-04-09T19:12:46 < kakium69> did sauna
2022-04-09T19:14:54 < catphish> kakium69: nein, tis not at weekend
2022-04-09T19:20:20 < kakium69> no work every day?
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2022-04-09T20:03:16 < bitmask> ohh yeaaa
2022-04-09T20:05:48 < Steffanx> No
2022-04-09T20:06:01 < kakium69> maybe
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2022-04-09T20:28:53 < bitmask> of course
2022-04-09T20:29:23 < bitmask> gotta go get more distilled water so i can try this electropolishing
2022-04-09T20:29:59 < bitmask> 50/50 water to 85% phosphoric acid and couple drops of dish soap, lead cathode, not sure what current is required though
2022-04-09T20:31:09 < bitmask> hmm i think the current requirements are high
2022-04-09T20:34:07 < Steffanx> I'd take the next requirements.
2022-04-09T20:40:19 < BrainDamage> if you replace the dish soap you can make coca cola
2022-04-09T20:40:42 < bitmask> wtf, 4A/dm^2
2022-04-09T20:42:38 < bitmask> if i use ethanol instead of water i can get it down to 2-3
2022-04-09T20:43:43 < bitmask> im so confused
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2022-04-09T20:46:12 < bitmask> this paper is showing that between 0 and and say 0.5 A/dm^2 its very bright, then from 0.5 to 1 theres no polishing, then to 2 or 3 its dull, and then above thats its bright
2022-04-09T20:46:40 < bitmask> the lower end shows it as etching in the chart though, so why is it very bright
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2022-04-09T21:47:26 < zyp> kakium69, sup?
2022-04-09T21:47:54 < kakium69> _v in c++ standard library
2022-04-09T21:48:00 < kakium69> value or variable?
2022-04-09T21:48:16 < kakium69> is_same vs is_same_v ?
2022-04-09T21:48:29 < zyp> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/is_same
2022-04-09T21:48:34 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-09T21:48:40 < kakium69> but what does v stand for?
2022-04-09T21:48:42 < zyp> is_same_v = is_same<T, U>::value;
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2022-04-09T21:49:53 < kakium69> "helper variable template"
2022-04-09T21:49:53 < zyp> is_same is a struct, is_same_v is is_same::value, so it's pretty obvious it stands for value
2022-04-09T21:50:16 < kakium69> hmm
2022-04-09T21:50:17 < zyp> so it's a shorthand for not having to write ::value
2022-04-09T21:50:24 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-09T21:51:33 < kakium69> how is weekend?
2022-04-09T21:51:43 < zyp> good
2022-04-09T21:52:01 < kakium69> how is house mods and electricals?
2022-04-09T21:53:29 < zyp> I bought a new air hose today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ct20Y.jpg
2022-04-09T21:53:42 < zyp> bit overkill for the blow gun, but…
2022-04-09T21:56:32 < kakium69> that is overkill
2022-04-09T21:57:40 < kakium69> you used bayonet connector for air
2022-04-09T21:57:47 < kakium69> thats weird but okay
2022-04-09T21:57:55 < kakium69> it works
2022-04-09T21:59:27 < zyp> it's not weird, it's the defacto connector on rock drills and shit
2022-04-09T22:00:32 < kakium69> oh
2022-04-09T22:00:38 < kakium69> makes sense
2022-04-09T22:01:44 < kakium69> do you have a system that could even come near the limits of that hose?
2022-04-09T22:01:54 < zyp> I've got one of those on the compressor as well, and I made the adapter to the regular quick couplers when I got the compressor so I can use it for regular stuff too
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2022-04-09T22:02:44 < zyp> probably not, hose probably has way more capacity than my compressor
2022-04-09T22:03:13 < zyp> given that the same hoses are used for larger compressors too
2022-04-09T22:05:05 < zyp> mine only does 1.2 m3/min or so, which for rock drilling is not a lot, so I bought pretty much the smallest kind of drill that still uses 22mm hex drill rods
2022-04-09T22:05:31 < kakium69> you have elite screw compressor?
2022-04-09T22:05:53 < zyp> then again, going overkill on the hose means I won't have to worry about pressure loss across it
2022-04-09T22:05:56 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-09T22:06:02 < zyp> 7.5kW electric
2022-04-09T22:06:03 < kakium69> nice
2022-04-09T22:06:12 < kakium69> noice
2022-04-09T22:08:07 < zyp> I rented a diesel compressor and rock drill a couple of years ago, which worked great, but drilling for a whole day is tiring as fuck
2022-04-09T22:08:14 < zyp> and rent quickly gets expensive
2022-04-09T22:08:21 < zyp> also diesel
2022-04-09T22:08:45 < zyp> so I bought my own compressor and drill so I can go at my own pace
2022-04-09T22:09:03 < kakium69> it makes no sense to burn diesel when you have norilsk hydro
2022-04-09T22:09:48 < kakium69> and probably beefed up main fuses for electric car use
2022-04-09T22:09:58 < zyp> even if it's less powerful, I don't have a deadline when I'm using equipment I own, so I can do little by little
2022-04-09T22:10:15 < kakium69> do you have an accumulator?
2022-04-09T22:10:19 < zyp> and once I'm done with it I can probably sell it for as much as I bought it for
2022-04-09T22:10:29 < kakium69> or is that compressor enough for constant operation?
2022-04-09T22:10:45 < zyp> it'll do 1.2m3/min continously
2022-04-09T22:10:52 < zyp> or was it 1.1, something like that
2022-04-09T22:11:27 < zyp> I've had it for a year now, but so far I've only used it for small stuff like filling tires :p
2022-04-09T22:12:26 < zyp> but it's great, it's got a VFD and is pretty quiet compared to a small piston compressor
2022-04-09T22:13:04 < zyp> so I'm tempted to keep it even when I'm done drilling
2022-04-09T22:13:49 < zyp> me and my friends have been talking about buying a place to set up a hobby workshop, so maybe it'll end up there
2022-04-09T22:15:55 < kakium69> definitelly
2022-04-09T22:16:00 < kakium69> man space
2022-04-09T22:16:12 < kakium69> "man space"
2022-04-09T22:16:38 < zyp> I like having it at home too, but it takes up a bit too much space to justify it really
2022-04-09T22:16:41 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lKQ7b.jpg
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2022-04-09T22:34:49 < kakium69> now I remember
2022-04-09T22:35:00 < kakium69> you had some big ass rock on your yard
2022-04-09T22:35:07 < kakium69> and you destroy it little by little
2022-04-09T22:35:31 < kakium69> did you use water in winter to split it?
2022-04-09T22:36:49 < mawk> on my grandparents farm they put a big rock on purpose, so that kids can play on it
2022-04-09T22:36:54 < mawk> it was dug out of the ground during the road construction
2022-04-09T22:37:08 < mawk> the workers wanted to explode it but the grandparents asked to keep it
2022-04-09T22:37:17 < Steffanx> in dutchland or la france?
2022-04-09T22:37:21 < mawk> in france
2022-04-09T22:37:28 < mawk> I don't know anything about my dutch grandparents
2022-04-09T22:37:32 < mawk> I just know they had a butcher shop or something
2022-04-09T22:37:39 < mawk> in friesland
2022-04-09T22:37:43 < Steffanx> did you visit the big dutch rocks get?
2022-04-09T22:37:51 < mawk> which big dutch rocks
2022-04-09T22:38:00 < mawk> in limburg?
2022-04-09T22:38:08 < mawk> the mount everest of netherlands
2022-04-09T22:38:16 < kakium69> how bit rock?
2022-04-09T22:38:19 < kakium69> big
2022-04-09T22:38:28 < mawk> around 2.5m diameter ball
2022-04-09T22:38:44 < Steffanx> The hunebedden mawk
2022-04-09T22:38:45 < Steffanx> aka Dolmen
2022-04-09T22:39:07 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-04-09T22:39:13 < mawk> dolmen is a word from britanny
2022-04-09T22:39:18 < mawk> the part of france where it rains 24/24
2022-04-09T22:53:30 < zyp> kakium69, no, expansive mortar
2022-04-09T22:54:37 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/re5lf.jpg
2022-04-09T22:55:07 < zyp> and also wedges in the small holes
2022-04-09T22:55:30 < mawk> what did you put in place of the rock
2022-04-09T22:55:34 < mawk> it was a nice looking rock
2022-04-09T22:55:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Q2m7T.jpg
2022-04-09T22:56:29 < zyp> nothing yet, haven't progressed much lately
2022-04-09T22:57:03 < BrainDamage> what are you making?
2022-04-09T22:57:18 < zyp> more usable area, mostly
2022-04-09T22:57:59 < BrainDamage> aw, was hoping for a small stream
2022-04-09T23:00:32 < zyp> I own 3m of land on that side of the house, so I want to flatten it all and put down paving stones so I can move stuff around the house
2022-04-09T23:04:20 < zyp> older pic: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Rfuw4.jpg
2022-04-09T23:04:46 < zyp> I'll be continuing the wall on the left side all the way back, and then paving the area between
2022-04-09T23:05:17 < zyp> I've had a pallet of paving stones standing around for a couple of years now waiting for me to get the shit finished :p
2022-04-09T23:05:28 < josuah> ferns and tree around? looks cozzy
2022-04-09T23:07:18 < zyp> yeah, it's nice
2022-04-09T23:38:45 < catphish> today i've been trying to learn how to build an RF amplifier, i thought this would be simple, it is not :(
2022-04-09T23:44:05 < BrainDamage> nowdays the solution is mostly "use this ic and this layout"
2022-04-09T23:44:22 < BrainDamage> if you want to build one from scratch, you'll need to learn A LOT
2022-04-09T23:46:02 < kakium69> catphish: do you need one?
2022-04-09T23:47:39 < catphish> i want a way to amplify the signal from my SDR (0.7mW) to a couple of watts for transmission
2022-04-09T23:48:00 < catphish> "need" is a strong word, just something i want to play with
2022-04-09T23:48:20 < BrainDamage> a couple of W starts being the range where a signal can be really noticeable
2022-04-09T23:48:31 < catphish> BrainDamage: that's why i chose it
2022-04-09T23:48:45 < BrainDamage> it's also illegal unless you have a license
2022-04-09T23:48:48 < catphish> BrainDamage: enough that it can be received, not crazy
2022-04-09T23:48:50 < BrainDamage> yes, even in the ism bands
2022-04-09T23:49:04 < catphish> BrainDamage: it is indeed
2022-04-09T23:49:13 < josuah> catphish: an analog one?
2022-04-09T23:49:22 < catphish> is there any other kind?
2022-04-09T23:49:38 < BrainDamage> in fact transmitting on ism bands with any diy equipment is illegal
2022-04-09T23:49:45 < BrainDamage> but none would notice at low power
2022-04-09T23:49:50 < josuah> I saw amplifiers converting signal to a higher-amplitude PWM signal and a capacitor
2022-04-09T23:50:03 < josuah> inexpensive stuff to plug loudspeakers to
2022-04-09T23:50:05 < catphish> BrainDamage: is that true? i thought ISM was free-for-all
2022-04-09T23:50:09 < josuah> but I imagine that would not work at all for RF
2022-04-09T23:50:14 < kakium69> josuah: D-class audioamp
2022-04-09T23:50:16 < BrainDamage> it's not free for all, that's a misconception
2022-04-09T23:50:22 < catphish> i mean, it's not designed for radios at all, it's designed for heating etc
2022-04-09T23:50:33 < BrainDamage> ism means type-accepted equipment only
2022-04-09T23:50:34 < josuah> kakium69: thanks! I remember something about audio classes for amps
2022-04-09T23:50:38 < josuah> now that you say it
2022-04-09T23:50:43 < BrainDamage> which means that the equipment is licensed, not the operator
2022-04-09T23:50:59 < BrainDamage> ham radio bands instead the operator is licensed
2022-04-09T23:51:06 < BrainDamage> and private owned, it's both
2022-04-09T23:51:22 < catphish> in any case, i have a 10W ham licence
2022-04-09T23:51:44 < kakium69> oh :o
2022-04-09T23:51:46 < BrainDamage> then you can send 10W on ham bands, but not 10W on ism, unless they overlap
2022-04-09T23:51:53 < catphish> BrainDamage: obviously :)
2022-04-09T23:52:04 < BrainDamage> in the us the 2.4GHz band overlaps partially with ham
2022-04-09T23:52:08 < BrainDamage> they can send 1kW ...
2022-04-09T23:52:09 < catphish> but i would send 100mW on ISM without caring much :)
2022-04-09T23:52:21 < BrainDamage> yeah, 100mW noone will care
2022-04-09T23:53:41 < catphish> BrainDamage: for people who are totally unlicenced, the best option is probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMR446
2022-04-09T23:53:53 < catphish> assuming you can competently transmit the right FM signals
2022-04-09T23:54:04 < BrainDamage> you can cheat
2022-04-09T23:54:18 < BrainDamage> you can take an approved ism module, and then modulate the input
2022-04-09T23:54:33 < BrainDamage> 433MHz am modules are somewhat common
2022-04-09T23:54:42 < catphish> i imagine different countries have different rules about whether you can design your own equipment for PMR and ISM
2022-04-09T23:54:57 < BrainDamage> only the radio module has to be approved
2022-04-09T23:55:11 < catphish> but nobody's going to care much if you don't get silly
2022-04-09T23:55:23 < BrainDamage> yep
2022-04-09T23:55:34 < BrainDamage> 10W starts to tether the line tho
2022-04-09T23:55:41 < catphish> i'm allowed to transmit at 10W on ham bands, i'm allowed to build (but not design) my own hardware
2022-04-09T23:56:01 < BrainDamage> as in, anyone within your city will know
2022-04-09T23:56:08 < BrainDamage> or will potentially know
2022-04-09T23:56:25 < catphish> in theory, 10W can get me half way round the world at 7MHz :)
2022-04-09T23:57:04 < BrainDamage> http://www.qrp.gr/technology/voicepassivecw/MJRainey%20-%20New%20England%20Code%20Talker.htm
2022-04-09T23:57:20 < BrainDamage> you don't even need active powering if you go at those freqs
2022-04-09T23:58:53 < BrainDamage> 1200km powered by your own voice, now that's quite the shout distance
2022-04-09T23:59:21 < catphish> now that's impressive
--- Day changed su huhti 10 2022
2022-04-10T00:02:33 < BrainDamage> the guys at highaltitude also strap bog standard 433MHz modules to their balloons, with a bit of tricky baseband modulation
2022-04-10T00:02:47 < BrainDamage> they can be heard for ~all europe from the uk
2022-04-10T00:03:02 < BrainDamage> as in, easily 900km+ range
2022-04-10T00:03:51 < kakium69> hey
2022-04-10T00:04:05 < kakium69> was it lurencer who did baloons with radios
2022-04-10T00:04:17 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-04-10T00:07:08 < Posterdati> if you consider that oregon scientific radios works even here in Rome taking the signal from north germany
2022-04-10T00:09:13 < BrainDamage> dcf77 works at somewhat unaccessible frequencies for amateurs tho
2022-04-10T00:09:40 < BrainDamage> unless you have a football field sized backyard to fit the antenna
2022-04-10T00:10:03 < kakium69> ##ham32
2022-04-10T00:10:34 < kakium69> I'm yet to get a license
2022-04-10T00:12:32 < catphish> i got a licence, but i'm mostly only interested in SDR / digital stuff
2022-04-10T00:12:41 < catphish> so need to find a way to transmit
2022-04-10T00:16:00 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/N0MUhVq.png
2022-04-10T00:16:42 < BrainDamage> try to listen to POES
2022-04-10T00:16:57 < catphish> POES?
2022-04-10T00:16:58 < BrainDamage> getting weather images directly beamed from the sky is quite neat
2022-04-10T00:17:18 < BrainDamage> polar orbiting esomething satellite (esploratory?)
2022-04-10T00:17:25 < BrainDamage> it's a series of weather sats
2022-04-10T00:17:51 < catphish> ah cool
2022-04-10T00:17:51 < BrainDamage> the frequency is low enough that you don't need directive antennas for APT / LRPT
2022-04-10T00:21:01 < BrainDamage> get a pack of coat hangers :p
2022-04-10T00:21:16 < catphish> i don't have an antenna handy on those frequencies
2022-04-10T00:22:22 < BrainDamage> see my previous message
2022-04-10T00:22:38 < BrainDamage> that's literally all you need most of the times
2022-04-10T00:22:58 < kakium69> or just any wire
2022-04-10T00:23:14 < catphish> i literally just mean i don't have one plugged in, if i walked to my radio, i could add one :)
2022-04-10T00:23:17 < BrainDamage> yeah, but if they are too thin they are annoying to make the shape
2022-04-10T00:23:27 < kakium69> taped to cardboard or a wall
2022-04-10T00:23:49 < kakium69> any new interesting cheap SDR radios?
2022-04-10T00:24:12 < kakium69> I have that DVB-T dongle with better oscillators or something
2022-04-10T00:24:17 < kakium69> better tuner or something
2022-04-10T00:24:26 < kakium69> in aluminium case
2022-04-10T00:24:34 < catphish> most new SDRs use AD9361
2022-04-10T00:24:44 < BrainDamage> I got a plutosdr for 100 bucks when it came out
2022-04-10T00:24:52 < BrainDamage> but now it's considerably more expensive
2022-04-10T00:25:12 < catphish> the USRP B210 and bladerf xA9 are the good choices right now
2022-04-10T00:25:35 < catphish> but... they will only do above 47MHz
2022-04-10T00:25:53 < BrainDamage> nothing an upconverter can't fix
2022-04-10T00:25:54 < kakium69> 1800buckeroones
2022-04-10T00:26:16 < catphish> yeah right now i'm using a ham-it-up upconverter
2022-04-10T00:26:49 < catphish> waiting for a new frontend card for my USRP that will do raw conversion (DC to 50Hz)
2022-04-10T00:27:12 < kakium69> yeah I need that ham it up thing
2022-04-10T00:27:20 < kakium69> NEED
2022-04-10T00:27:34 < BrainDamage> 50Hz, now that's an easy goal :P
2022-04-10T00:28:42 < kakium69> catphish: you have that USRP thing?
2022-04-10T00:28:55 < kakium69> B210
2022-04-10T00:29:04 < catphish> kakium69: i have a USRP N200
2022-04-10T00:29:17 < catphish> N is the network version (ethernet rather then usb)
2022-04-10T00:29:36 < kakium69> sexy
2022-04-10T00:29:59 < catphish> actually the N200 is totally different, the DAC/ADC is built in but the RF tuner cards are modular
2022-04-10T00:30:21 < catphish> right now for example i have this installed https://www.ettus.com/all-products/wbx/
2022-04-10T00:30:47 < catphish> but i am replacing it with https://www.ettus.com/all-products/basicrx/
2022-04-10T00:51:37 < mawk> Steffanx: my cat refuses to eat kroket
2022-04-10T00:51:39 < mawk> it's not food for her
2022-04-10T00:56:41 < kakium69> pics
2022-04-10T00:57:32 < mawk> kakium69: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/McKroket_%28McDonald%27s_Winschoten_-_2017%29_03.jpg
2022-04-10T00:58:19 < kakium69> cat knows
2022-04-10T00:58:24 < kakium69> it's not food
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2022-04-10T01:07:22 < aandrew> PaulFertser: any tips on debugging why dap init returns -4 with a stupid simple ftdi config?
2022-04-10T01:08:43 < aandrew> debug just shows
2022-04-10T01:08:44 < aandrew> Debug: 121 10 arm_dap.c:105 dap_init_all(): Initializing all DAPs ...
2022-04-10T01:08:44 < aandrew> Debug: 122 10 ftdi.c:1248 ftdi_swd_switch_seq(): JTAG-to-SWD
2022-04-10T01:08:44 < aandrew> Debug: 123 11 command.c:651 run_command(): Command 'dap init' failed with error code -4
2022-04-10T01:09:38 < aandrew> my SWD switch is defined by 'ftdi_layout_signal SWD_EN -ndata 0x0100" which I am expecting to lower GPIOH0
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2022-04-10T10:22:50 < Steffanx> Oh McDonald's shit. Explains it mawk
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2022-04-10T13:26:50 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-10T13:27:28 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@87-93-226-136.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-10T13:30:01 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-10T13:30:08 < Posterdati> kakium69: :)
2022-04-10T13:30:19 < kakium69> morgon
2022-04-10T13:31:12 < Posterdati> Pleasse I need a suggestion: which is better in order use struct/union to address stm32 i/o memory or use array to address single registers and use offsets?
2022-04-10T13:32:30 < kakium69> both
2022-04-10T13:32:48 < kakium69> if you want offsets
2022-04-10T13:33:02 < kakium69> or no just stucts
2022-04-10T13:33:34 < kakium69> offset pointer as you want
2022-04-10T13:33:55 < Posterdati> yes, I'd like to create a small library in c++ to handle devices
2022-04-10T13:34:07 < kakium69> look what others have done
2022-04-10T13:34:20 < Posterdati> and I'd like to not add useless overhead
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2022-04-10T13:36:54 < Posterdati> kakium69: using structure make tricky to handle devices like scb which has got non contiguous registers in memory
2022-04-10T13:37:21 < kakium69> you can make paddings
2022-04-10T13:38:17 < Posterdati> yes I know
2022-04-10T13:38:46 < Posterdati> offsets make that easy and staight
2022-04-10T15:29:30 < kakium69> how are you implementing that?
2022-04-10T15:41:11 < catphish> why are some people unwilling to understand what a thermostat does? :'(
2022-04-10T15:41:21 < kakium69> what thermostat?
2022-04-10T15:41:27 < kakium69> so many thermostats
2022-04-10T15:42:03 < catphish> example: today i found my greenhouse door wide open to keep the temperature down, and the small heater inside on, with its thermostat turned right up
2022-04-10T15:42:16 < catphish> asked my wife about it, she says it was going to be a cold night, so she turned it up
2022-04-10T15:42:22 < catphish> aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh
2022-04-10T15:42:51 < catphish> the simple kind of thermostat that turns on a heater when it falls below a set temperature :)
2022-04-10T15:43:42 < kakium69> she just compensated the temperature difference across the greenhouse
2022-04-10T15:44:40 < kakium69> does it have temperatures marked to it?
2022-04-10T15:44:48 < kakium69> or just 1-2-3-4-5-6
2022-04-10T15:46:30 < catphish> it's just numbers, but they correspond to (unknown) temperatures
2022-04-10T15:47:07 < kakium69> there there
2022-04-10T15:47:42 < kakium69> she couldn't know it was a thermostat
2022-04-10T15:50:40 < kakium69> does it have an indicator led for heater?
2022-04-10T15:50:55 < catphish> nope, it just clicks a little when it switches
2022-04-10T15:51:49 < catphish> i've explained thermostats to her on more than one occasion before, she just seems unwilling to understand, it's mildly infuriating
2022-04-10T15:54:23 < kakium69> she understands room thermostat though?
2022-04-10T15:55:09 < catphish> just about
2022-04-10T15:56:29 < catphish> at least she knows what setting turns it between "off" and a comfortable temperature, so that's a blessing
2022-04-10T15:58:13 < catphish> she's really very capable of rational thought apart from this one thing :)
2022-04-10T16:00:29 < kakium69> she is smart dum
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2022-04-10T16:16:06 < catphish> anyone know how long regular US to EU/UK post takes? been waiting 10 days for something, ebay estimates another 3 weeks, that seems unreasonable
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2022-04-10T17:16:37 < kakium69> week to two weeks
2022-04-10T17:17:28 < catphish> thanks, fingers crossed it arrives some time next week then :)
2022-04-10T17:18:14 < catphish> i don't know how ebay's international post works, it's cool because they seem to handle the VAT automatically, but they use regular slow post
2022-04-10T17:28:44 < BrainDamage> eu mandated that anyone that wants to sell has to handle vat at the seller
2022-04-10T17:29:12 < BrainDamage> I thought the change wrt vat-free was going for the worse, but that's genuinely better
2022-04-10T17:29:38 < BrainDamage> I don't mind paying a couple euro more in exchange of not having anymore customs limbo
2022-04-10T17:32:27 < specing> BrainDamage: I get to pay a couple euro more, plus it being stuck in customs limbo for two weeks plus 2.5 eur customs handling fee
2022-04-10T17:33:35 < specing> all the EU directive did was add the first and last part. Which were otherwise only for >22 eur packages
2022-04-10T17:34:35 < BrainDamage> when the customs VAT is handled at the sale point it should just be waived off
2022-04-10T17:37:01 < catphish> BrainDamage: that law is only B2C though
2022-04-10T17:37:33 < BrainDamage> yes, b2b you're always supposed to handle vat manually
2022-04-10T17:37:35 < catphish> i always prefer to pay the seller to handle the customs though, avoids delays and the £12 fuck you fee that carriers here charge for doing it on receipt
2022-04-10T17:37:39 < BrainDamage> because there's no single cat
2022-04-10T17:37:45 < BrainDamage> case*
2022-04-10T17:37:56 < catphish> and c2c (as per ebay's tradition)
2022-04-10T17:38:24 < BrainDamage> it's not just there with the fuck you fee
2022-04-10T17:39:08 < catphish> well pretty much everyone charges this, i guess
2022-04-10T17:39:18 < catphish> and it's 100% gay
2022-04-10T18:00:47 * catphish learns about impedance matching, yay for youtube
2022-04-10T18:13:44 < BrainDamage> wait, you have a ham license and you didn't know about that?
2022-04-10T18:13:58 < BrainDamage> that's something you have to know even to use 3rd party made equipment
2022-04-10T18:14:05 < BrainDamage> unless you want to fry things
2022-04-10T18:16:50 < catphish> almost as if that's why i'm learning it ;)
2022-04-10T18:17:23 < BrainDamage> no, I mean, it should be in the basic questions
2022-04-10T18:18:10 < catphish> i doubt many people need to know it at a basic level, all off the shelf stuff is 50R
2022-04-10T18:18:31 < BrainDamage> except for coax
2022-04-10T18:18:36 < BrainDamage> and connectors
2022-04-10T18:18:45 < BrainDamage> and some antennas
2022-04-10T18:22:08 < qyx> oh I should look up the questions for getting a license
2022-04-10T18:23:32 < catphish> despite being famously strict on car licences in the UK, all other licences are given out like candy here :)
2022-04-10T18:25:42 < catphish> i like to believe that the UK is the land of freedom that the USA claims to be :)
2022-04-10T18:26:59 < BrainDamage> there's a connector in fact that's infamously used in ham radio that's not 50Ohm
2022-04-10T18:27:26 < BrainDamage> and past 200MHz or so it starts throwing wacky shit
2022-04-10T18:29:17 < mawk> except when you try to broadcast rock music catphish
2022-04-10T18:29:32 < catphish> BrainDamage: this connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF_connector
2022-04-10T18:30:04 < catphish> it's pretty poorly specified but everyone uses it
2022-04-10T18:30:19 < BrainDamage> yes, exactly
2022-04-10T18:30:32 < BrainDamage> as you can see, most things aren't 50 Ohm :P
2022-04-10T18:31:01 < catphish> but also, it probably doesn't matter to that kind of precision at 10W
2022-04-10T18:31:31 < BrainDamage> 10W depending on VSWR can absolutely fry your end stage amp
2022-04-10T18:31:49 < catphish> well i hope not to do that :)
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2022-04-10T19:10:18 < fenugrec> I don't know why 'UHF' connectors are still a thing. Crap performance, fugly, bulky
2022-04-10T19:11:45 < catphish> i use them because i buy stuff that has them :)
2022-04-10T19:11:56 < catphish> and the circle of life continues
2022-04-10T19:20:41 < fenugrec> the connector that just won't die
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2022-04-10T20:31:24 < bitmask> kodi vs plex, go!
2022-04-10T20:33:10 < mawk> I just use smb on a raspberry pi, then I connect the network share on my windows computer
2022-04-10T20:33:15 < mawk> and look at stuff with vlc
2022-04-10T20:33:19 < mawk> nobody needs more than that
2022-04-10T20:34:49 < bitmask> lame
2022-04-10T20:35:09 < bitmask> nobody needs anything but doesnt mean its the right way to do it
2022-04-10T20:35:29 < mawk> lol
2022-04-10T20:35:51 < bitmask> ive only used kodi and just having it keep track of whats watched is worth it
2022-04-10T20:35:56 < BrainDamage> nobody needs a boiler for a hot shower at home, but it's surely handy
2022-04-10T20:36:09 < mawk> I delete what I've watched
2022-04-10T20:36:21 * BrainDamage deletes mawk
2022-04-10T20:36:29 < mawk> :(
2022-04-10T20:36:35 * bitmask secure deletes mawk 16x
2022-04-10T20:36:42 < mawk> the network share is directly the torrent download folder
2022-04-10T20:36:48 < mawk> and I use remote transmission
2022-04-10T20:37:12 < mawk> so on my laptop I open a .torrent and it gets added automatically, then wait 5min and I see it in the network share
2022-04-10T20:37:16 < mawk> :(
2022-04-10T20:38:09 < mawk> kodi looks better than plaiks
2022-04-10T20:38:15 < bitmask> i have a central mysql db for kodi so all kodi instances share the same db which is necessary because for one tv we use a firestick 4k max and its slow as hell to update. but i just have my htpc handle all my torrenting and library updates and then its all set
2022-04-10T20:38:34 < mawk> which htpc
2022-04-10T20:38:49 < mawk> I tried to use the rpi4 as mediacenter but it's way too slow
2022-04-10T20:38:58 < mawk> even with 64bit os and overclocking and active cooling
2022-04-10T20:38:59 < Steffanx> I use plex and it works nice for everyone in the house who wants to use it
2022-04-10T20:39:00 < bitmask> its my desktop, i just call it a gaming htpc, although its pretty hold now
2022-04-10T20:39:03 < mawk> so now I use it only as NAS
2022-04-10T20:39:07 < bitmask> but its connected to my tv and not a monitor
2022-04-10T20:39:11 < Steffanx> And stream to the chrome cast using zhe phone
2022-04-10T20:39:17 < mawk> and I bought a tiny x86 box to use as mediacenter
2022-04-10T20:39:21 < mawk> with windoz on it
2022-04-10T20:39:47 < mawk> like a shuttle pc but different brand
2022-04-10T20:40:10 < bitmask> mine is a legit pc in a small case with watercooling
2022-04-10T20:40:23 < mawk> ah nice
2022-04-10T20:40:39 < bitmask> top of the line when i got it, but that was a long time ago, top of the line at the time was a 980
2022-04-10T20:41:04 < mawk> ah I remember the brand, lenovo
2022-04-10T20:41:10 < Steffanx> Sickchill does my downloads (series that is), moves it to the NAS, kicks plex to update its database. And users go to the Web app to watch their shit
2022-04-10T20:41:11 < mawk> with intel vpro i5 or something
2022-04-10T20:41:24 < mawk> plebs, not plex
2022-04-10T20:41:27 < Steffanx> Downloads via deluge. Sickchill can't download torrents
2022-04-10T20:41:31 < mawk> haven't you heard of name change
2022-04-10T20:41:44 < mawk> transmission works wonderfully
2022-04-10T20:41:51 < bitmask> oh shuttle! i think i bought one of those but it wouldnt run what i wanted so i had to return it and got the one i just described
2022-04-10T20:41:53 < mawk> with web interface and remote connection
2022-04-10T20:42:02 < Steffanx> Deluge was easier to setup on freenas at the time
2022-04-10T20:42:16 < mawk> why freenas
2022-04-10T20:42:20 < bitmask> they were cool but not powerful enough for what they described
2022-04-10T20:42:28 < Steffanx> Because I decided to install that
2022-04-10T20:43:00 < mawk> I have only one disk, connected via usb with a sata usb enclosure
2022-04-10T20:43:11 < mawk> I don't know if I can do raid on the rpi
2022-04-10T20:43:16 < Steffanx> And it works, until it crashes, but that must be a hardware issue. Not sure what's failing yet though
2022-04-10T20:43:33 < mawk> look in dmesg
2022-04-10T20:43:41 < mawk> if it's hardware crash
2022-04-10T20:43:52 < Steffanx> Yeah, but the kernel panics are quite cryptic.
2022-04-10T20:44:31 < bitmask> i would love a nas but dont want to spend that much money. I have tons of space as is but not raid so its not safe
2022-04-10T20:44:54 < Steffanx> Google's answer: might be a hardware failure, but no clue what. GOOD LUCK ðŸ‘
2022-04-10T20:45:12 < BrainDamage> raid is availability, not safety
2022-04-10T20:45:51 < bitmask> in the htpc i have a 500GB sata, a 10TB internal and a 10TB external usb
2022-04-10T20:46:52 < Steffanx> 10TB is expensive enough yeah
2022-04-10T20:46:54 < bitmask> and 4 and 6 tb drives that dont fit anywhere so they are in a drawer
2022-04-10T20:48:16 < bitmask> plex you have to pay for 4k i read, does that mean it wont play 4k content at all or will it transcode it or something?
2022-04-10T20:48:29 < bitmask> i dont have a 4k tv but i have 4k content
2022-04-10T20:49:45 < mawk> I have a 4K tv but I just watch 1080p content
2022-04-10T20:50:06 < mawk> because 4K is only 30fps
2022-04-10T20:50:32 < mawk> it's not smooth using the computor with that, and interfaces become tiny tiny and scaling isn't perfect
2022-04-10T20:51:03 < bitmask> 4k is only 30 fps? i never heard that
2022-04-10T20:51:10 < mawk> on my tv
2022-04-10T20:51:12 < bitmask> ohh
2022-04-10T20:51:14 < Steffanx> I recall it's only when it needs to do tone mapping when transposing, bitmask
2022-04-10T20:51:24 < Steffanx> Transcosing
2022-04-10T20:51:26 < Steffanx> Damn
2022-04-10T20:51:31 < mawk> trainspotting
2022-04-10T20:51:31 < Steffanx> Hard word
2022-04-10T20:51:42 < bitmask> well it will because all my 4k are hdr if thats what you meant
2022-04-10T20:51:55 < Steffanx> Yeah
2022-04-10T20:51:59 < bitmask> oh well
2022-04-10T20:52:05 < bitmask> guess i'll stick with kodi
2022-04-10T20:52:19 < Steffanx> And if you need transcoding..
2022-04-10T20:52:50 < Steffanx> Or go with emby, but that's semi commercial as well
2022-04-10T20:53:02 < Steffanx> Not sure what's hot nowadays
2022-04-10T20:53:05 < bitmask> kodi works fine for me
2022-04-10T21:06:29 < Steffanx> ok
2022-04-10T21:06:31 < Steffanx> enjoy Fringe :P
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2022-04-10T21:17:44 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: jellyfin is open source emby, it got forked off
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2022-04-10T21:33:53 < Steffanx> Oh now you say this
2022-04-10T21:34:09 < Steffanx> I heard about it
2022-04-10T21:48:54 < mawk> zyp prove that (1+2i)⿠is never a real number, for n ≥ 1
2022-04-10T21:49:02 < mawk> in as many ways as you can of course
2022-04-10T21:49:30 < mawk> it's a fun little exercise that everyone can do
2022-04-10T21:52:31 < BrainDamage> to have a real number you need all even power of i to get rid of it, but all product explicit results have n-1 power and n at the same time, so you'll get both odd and even terms
2022-04-10T21:54:02 < mawk> something could cancel out and the odd powers of i could be 0 though
2022-04-10T21:54:50 < mawk> like in (1+i)â¿
2022-04-10T21:59:37 < mawk> explicitly you get (1+2i)^n = Σ binom(n, 2k) 2^(2k) (-1)^k + i Σ binom(n, 2k+1) 2^(2k+1) (-1)^k
2022-04-10T21:59:51 < mawk> maybe the sum on the right cancels out
2022-04-10T22:03:37 < Steffanx> Yes makes sense
2022-04-10T22:06:59 < mawk> totally
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2022-04-10T22:13:25 < Steffanx> Or not.
2022-04-10T22:14:57 < kakium69> ##math32
2022-04-10T22:15:21 < Steffanx> You're awake kakium69
2022-04-10T22:15:26 < kakium69> morgon
2022-04-10T22:16:17 < kakium69> I just visited a grill
2022-04-10T22:16:20 < kakium69> kebab
2022-04-10T22:16:28 < kakium69> sunday kebak
2022-04-10T22:28:29 < kakium69> how Stef?
2022-04-10T22:29:08 < bitmask> grr
2022-04-10T22:30:05 < bitmask> just spent $18 to add 64gb to my firestick (usb otg + flash drive) because it only has 8gb storage and my thumbnails alone for my library is 6gb
2022-04-10T22:30:35 < bitmask> theres prob a way to load them from network but blah
2022-04-10T22:30:42 < kakium69> it's a good price
2022-04-10T22:30:51 < bitmask> yea i know, just shouldnt need it
2022-04-10T22:40:15 < Steffanx> how what kakium69?
2022-04-10T22:40:27 < kakium69> how steff?
2022-04-10T22:40:38 < Steffanx> magic
2022-04-10T22:40:46 < kakium69> magical
2022-04-10T22:44:38 < mawk> lol how many films do you have bitmask
2022-04-10T22:44:58 < mawk> is firestick better than chromecast?
2022-04-10T22:45:06 < mawk> like it has an actual menu you can browse and all?
2022-04-10T22:45:10 -!- benishor_ [~benny@188.24.188.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2022-04-10T22:45:57 < bitmask> a decent amount but i chose to download actor thumbnails and all art choices so its not just thumbnails per se, its also 720p backgrounds and stuff for everything including every episode of tv shows
2022-04-10T22:46:24 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-04-10T22:46:30 < bitmask> ive never used a chromecast, i dont know why i went with firestick tbh
2022-04-10T22:46:36 < bitmask> didnt research
2022-04-10T22:46:51 < bitmask> it runs android just a limited version
2022-04-10T22:46:54 < mawk> chromecast is a dumb device, you can only use it to cast something from another device
2022-04-10T22:47:03 < bitmask> oh ok then yea firestick is better
2022-04-10T22:47:08 < mawk> there is no menu, nothing your can browse
2022-04-10T22:47:17 < Steffanx> best feature of the chrome cast is the nice photos when you stop casting
2022-04-10T22:47:19 < bitmask> it has a home screen where you can choose apps
2022-04-10T22:47:26 < BrainDamage> does a chromecast work offline or does it need to phone home?
2022-04-10T22:47:36 < mawk> most TV's you can cast to
2022-04-10T22:47:46 < mawk> I think it can work offline BrainDamage
2022-04-10T22:48:04 < mawk> you provision it through its own wifi network
2022-04-10T22:48:11 < mawk> then connect it to your home wifi
2022-04-10T22:48:15 < bitmask> Steffanx the best 'photos' screensaver is i think actually taken from os x or something, kodi has it, the high detailed flyovers of cities and stuff
2022-04-10T22:48:18 < mawk> and cast from the wifi
2022-04-10T22:48:24 < Steffanx> i recall you can also connect directly to the chromecast, but im not sure.
2022-04-10T22:48:29 < bitmask> apple tv maybe not os x
2022-04-10T22:48:39 < BrainDamage> that was miracast, but they removed it iirc
2022-04-10T22:48:47 < mawk> so what phones home is your own smartphone used to provision the chromecast BrainDamage
2022-04-10T22:48:56 < BrainDamage> mkchromecast
2022-04-10T22:48:57 < mawk> you can maybe avoid it
2022-04-10T22:49:16 < mawk> it also wants to do firmware updates sometimes
2022-04-10T22:49:27 < Steffanx> ive never seen it do that
2022-04-10T22:49:30 < bitmask> i should look up if the firestick is worth rooting, im not sure what you can do with it
2022-04-10T22:50:21 < mawk> maybe it did it behind your back Steffanx
2022-04-10T22:50:29 < mawk> Google likes to do updates at night
2022-04-10T22:50:39 < bitmask> does chromecast come with a remote? i like the firestick remote but wish it had backlighting
2022-04-10T22:50:58 < bitmask> i guess it doesnt need a remote
2022-04-10T22:51:03 < bitmask> since you use your device to control it
2022-04-10T22:51:22 < Steffanx> apparently there is a newer version with remote and google TV.
2022-04-10T22:58:16 < qyx> ok tried pine64 BL602 risc-v BLE&WiFi thing
2022-04-10T22:58:25 < qyx> using a generic workflow
2022-04-10T22:58:44 < qyx> google for examples, good, there are any, open tutorial, oh, there is one
2022-04-10T22:59:05 < qyx> clone 3 GB of shit, including macos and windows toolchains (reminds me of java..)
2022-04-10T22:59:16 < qyx> compile first example, nope, second, nope, third one, nope
2022-04-10T22:59:28 < qyx> every single one throws a different errors
2022-04-10T22:59:58 < qyx> after more than hour of trying, I got firs example compiled
2022-04-10T23:00:08 < qyx> it has a CLI! great, I am typing help
2022-04-10T23:00:18 < qyx> many commands, none bluetooth though
2022-04-10T23:00:23 < qyx> I try wifi_scan
2022-04-10T23:00:25 < qyx> doesn§t work
2022-04-10T23:00:31 < qyx> not a single one works
2022-04-10T23:00:56 < qyx> k, trying if there is a channel on libera
2022-04-10T23:00:56 < qyx> no
2022-04-10T23:01:29 < qyx> there is matrix, telegram and discord (wtf?)
2022-04-10T23:01:46 < qyx> ok, disconnecting the fucking thing, I don't want to see it anymore
2022-04-10T23:03:35 < qyx> not mentioning half of the examples have readme in chinese
2022-04-10T23:05:11 < Steffanx> Lol
2022-04-10T23:05:19 < Steffanx> karlp is that you?
2022-04-10T23:12:01 < qyx> I even bought my first usb-c cable for it
2022-04-10T23:14:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: fwiw, all pine64 chat channels should be available via their IRC server (not libera.chat, but still IRC).
2022-04-10T23:15:24 < PaulFertser> qyx: also, it's the pine64 business model: take something chinese that can probably theoretically work, sell to developers so that they write some hopefully nicer code. If nobody volunteered, bad luck.
2022-04-10T23:15:29 < qyx> I though we are living in 2022 and nobody is dealing with their own IRC server
2022-04-10T23:16:14 < PaulFertser> They run IRC on a cluster made from pine64 boards.
2022-04-10T23:16:34 < qyx> yeah ventyl told me
2022-04-10T23:16:47 < qyx> and the cluster is most probably located within 10 km of where I am now
2022-04-10T23:18:28 < qyx> https://geoiplookup.io/geo/91.219.133.83
2022-04-10T23:18:28 < qyx> yeah
2022-04-10T23:18:30 < qyx> pine64:org
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2022-04-10T23:21:51 < qyx> I hope esp32-c3 is gonna be more joyful
--- Day changed ma huhti 11 2022
2022-04-11T00:01:00 < Steffanx> So did you vote, mawk?
2022-04-11T00:04:52 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@10.121.104.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2022-04-11T00:10:23 < karlp> bitmask: plex 100%
2022-04-11T00:12:11 < mawk> yes Steffanx
2022-04-11T00:12:14 -!- yukam [~yukam@user/yukam] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2022-04-11T00:12:28 < mawk> it was in the french highschool in den haag
2022-04-11T00:13:33 < mawk> Steffanx: the new version is like an android tv box then
2022-04-11T00:13:35 < mawk> or what
2022-04-11T00:14:06 < karlp> yeah, pine shit, espeically that bl60x ble/wifi shit looked like afucking scam.
2022-04-11T00:14:24 < karlp> "we remarketed this super niche vendor silicon, no drivers lol, open source!"
2022-04-11T00:14:27 < karlp> gtfo
2022-04-11T00:14:40 < mawk> they're just waiting for you to write the drivers
2022-04-11T00:14:54 < mawk> so what are you waiting for
2022-04-11T00:14:57 < aandrew> bleh. I can't get this FTDI board to come up. everything looks fine electrically but ADBUS0 (SWDCK) never wiggles even though openocd is saying it's reading all zeroes
2022-04-11T00:15:18 < aandrew> SWDCK, TDI (tied to TDO via 470R) and TDO are all low
2022-04-11T00:15:36 < mawk> are you doing jtag?
2022-04-11T00:15:46 < aandrew> I can play with SWD_EN to wiggle other (non-MPSSE-reserved) pins and that seems to work so the chip appears to hear me
2022-04-11T00:15:49 < aandrew> mawk: swd
2022-04-11T00:16:00 < mawk> what's with TDI and TDO then
2022-04-11T00:16:27 < aandrew> well MPSSE makes TCK = SWDCK, TDI connected to TDO via 470R, TDO = SWDIO
2022-04-11T00:16:30 < mawk> what do you use to do that? TI's drivers and sdk?
2022-04-11T00:16:37 < mawk> ah
2022-04-11T00:16:47 < aandrew> me? I'm just using openocd and a stupid simple config file I wrote
2022-04-11T00:16:52 < mawk> ah
2022-04-11T00:17:05 < mawk> on windows?
2022-04-11T00:17:10 < karlp> wat?
2022-04-11T00:17:20 < karlp> you should perhaps just back away at this point mawk
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2022-04-11T00:17:29 < mawk> why
2022-04-11T00:17:30 < karlp> it's not a theoretical maths problem
2022-04-11T00:17:37 < mawk> lol
2022-04-11T00:17:43 < aandrew> mawk: https://pastebin.com/N7dtRu9i
2022-04-11T00:17:44 < karlp> and you're clearly not following what aandrew is trying to do :)
2022-04-11T00:17:50 < zyp> sup?
2022-04-11T00:18:02 < mawk> enligthen me then karlp
2022-04-11T00:18:11 < mawk> spit out the exact answer to the problem
2022-04-11T00:18:13 < mawk> the oneliner that will fix it
2022-04-11T00:18:15 < aandrew> gave it a bogus ID just so it reports what it found, but it's dying because it can only find all zeroes
2022-04-11T00:18:40 < qyx> isn't it broken?
2022-04-11T00:18:42 < karlp> mawk: I don't have one, bu you asking abotu TI software and windows is wildly out of the park...
2022-04-11T00:18:57 < mawk> why karlp ? drivers work differently on linux vs windows
2022-04-11T00:19:04 < aandrew> I've done this kind of thing before and it's worked so I'm thinking I must have a board issue but it seems odd
2022-04-11T00:19:10 < qyx> aandrew: also, doesn't oocd support SWD over MPSSE out of box?
2022-04-11T00:19:20 < aandrew> qyx: it does, this is how you use it
2022-04-11T00:19:24 < qyx> without making that JTAG to SWD shit
2022-04-11T00:19:28 < qyx> oh uh?
2022-04-11T00:19:31 < qyx> really?
2022-04-11T00:19:43 < aandrew> no, that's not for OpenOCD, that's how you do it with FTDI's MPSSE mode
2022-04-11T00:20:25 < qyx> interesting because I remember I used a MPSSE cable before I had any stlinks around and I definitely wasn't doing that
2022-04-11T00:20:29 < qyx> unless I am remembering wrong
2022-04-11T00:21:17 < aandrew> TDI/TDO are separate signals, so to use a bidirectional signal like SWDIO, you tie TDI and TDO together through a resistor so the target can yank TDI low, you dissipate the difference in voltage thorugh the resistor
2022-04-11T00:22:10 < qyx> looking at the docs right now, you are right
2022-04-11T00:24:00 < aandrew> yeah it seems correct, so the issue must be board-level
2022-04-11T00:24:10 < aandrew> I used a jlink to verify the target is working and it appears fine
2022-04-11T00:28:34 < mawk> can you define the SWDIO_OE signal and read its value aandrew ?
2022-04-11T00:29:07 < mawk> the doc say it will be put to 1 when something happens on swdio
2022-04-11T00:30:27 < aandrew> mawk: hm I didn't see that
2022-04-11T00:31:34 < zyp> < mawk> zyp prove that (1+2i)⿠is never a real number, for n ≥ 1
2022-04-11T00:31:46 < zyp> atan(2) / pi is irrational
2022-04-11T00:32:25 < zyp> for (1+2i)^n to be real, atan(2) * n mod 2pi == 0
2022-04-11T00:32:36 < mawk> mod pi
2022-04-11T00:32:36 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-11T00:32:49 < zyp> right, negative is still real
2022-04-11T00:32:54 < mawk> why is atan(2)/pi irrational though
2022-04-11T00:34:03 < mawk> yeah ok it's not too hard to justify I guess
2022-04-11T00:34:08 < zyp> fuck knows
2022-04-11T00:34:16 < mawk> lol
2022-04-11T00:34:36 < zyp> I figure if it was rational it'd be a known trigonometric identity
2022-04-11T00:37:58 < karlp> lol, downloaded a "rifftrax" version of a movie, as it was the only one that was well seeded that ws from a blueray, not some cam/ts.
2022-04-11T00:38:08 < karlp> torrent description says" original audio on track 2"
2022-04-11T00:38:16 < karlp> .... every single audio track is rifftrax
2022-04-11T00:38:28 < zyp> what's rifftrax?
2022-04-11T00:38:43 < karlp> some stupid "comedy" talking over the movie.
2022-04-11T00:38:59 < karlp> "riffing" on the movie apparnetly.
2022-04-11T00:39:09 < karlp> who would want to watch an entire movie like that I dont know.
2022-04-11T00:43:23 < karlp> appanetly gnome video can select "english #2" but plex (doh) is offering me three audio tracks, but they're all the wrong one
2022-04-11T00:44:47 < zyp> haha
2022-04-11T00:46:44 < karlp> plex web ui is working, but not the one on the tv?
2022-04-11T00:46:46 < karlp> weird.
2022-04-11T00:46:51 < karlp> fucking arsehold shit anyway
2022-04-11T00:46:57 < qyx> :>
2022-04-11T00:47:06 < karlp> the other high qaulity well seeded version is hard subbed in croatian too.
2022-04-11T00:47:18 < Steffanx> What's the movie?
2022-04-11T00:47:19 < karlp> think I should play video games instead of watching a movie then
2022-04-11T00:47:22 < qyx> Steffanx almost though I could mimic you
2022-04-11T00:47:23 < karlp> doesnt matter anymore :)
2022-04-11T00:47:40 < qyx> but he was wrong
2022-04-11T00:48:09 < Steffanx> Raging about mcus with bluetooth/wifi > karlp..
2022-04-11T00:48:16 < qyx> can I mildly recommend doing some work instead?
2022-04-11T00:48:32 < Steffanx> No the day is over.
2022-04-11T00:48:51 < Steffanx> And he's bitchy. Time for a game
2022-04-11T00:49:06 < qyx> I am writing some docs
2022-04-11T00:49:27 < qyx> and I think 23 lines is all I am able to produce now
2022-04-11T00:49:46 < Steffanx> Is there never a wife that says "its done for the day mr qyx"
2022-04-11T00:49:57 < qyx> she sleeps
2022-04-11T00:50:01 < Steffanx> 😅
2022-04-11T00:51:04 < karlp> work? lol
2022-04-11T00:51:18 < karlp> it's meant to be the time for relaxing isn't it?
2022-04-11T00:51:37 < qyx> re-what
2022-04-11T00:52:20 < qyx> but tbh this should have been relaxing work
2022-04-11T00:52:28 < qyx> turned out to be disaster
2022-04-11T00:52:44 < Steffanx> You dont relax when do poo-poo? :P
2022-04-11T00:52:56 * qyx opens esp32 docs
2022-04-11T00:52:59 < aandrew> hm
2022-04-11T00:53:19 < aandrew> TDO (ADBUS2) seems to be holding low
2022-04-11T00:54:13 < aandrew> if I depop the 33R I have there, I get nice strong SWDIO signal. if I populate it, I get a very weak SWDIO signal from the FTDI chip (since it's mostly being dropped across the 470R)
2022-04-11T00:54:22 < aandrew> wonder if there's a short under the chip
2022-04-11T00:54:24 < qyx> zyp: did you try that stm32wb?
2022-04-11T00:54:40 < qyx> with the original ble stack I mean
2022-04-11T00:54:40 < karlp> qyx: stm32wb worked quite well for me apart frrom the power issues.
2022-04-11T00:54:45 < karlp> using the original ble stack
2022-04-11T00:54:50 < karlp> like, I'm really missing it right now...
2022-04-11T00:54:56 < qyx> oh really
2022-04-11T00:55:08 < qyx> it is not that expensive either
2022-04-11T00:55:12 < qyx> and in stock
2022-04-11T00:55:33 < karlp> I only left it because you cant do adc in stop2, and you cant' do ble in stop1.
2022-04-11T00:55:50 < karlp> but otherwise, worked great, none of the bullshit I've had with silabs.
2022-04-11T00:56:12 < karlp> openocd works, laks works, freertos works, plenty of ram. all things are wonderful.
2022-04-11T00:56:46 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/l2-st-ble
2022-04-11T00:56:59 < qyx> but I guess I will use stm32wl instead
2022-04-11T00:57:03 < karlp> all my issues and hate was while I was believing I was doing something wrong, trying to get the adc in that power as well.
2022-04-11T00:57:39 < qyx> because, te only reason I was considering using BLE was the price of BLE SoCs
2022-04-11T00:57:57 < karlp> and because ble has a future, unlike lora....
2022-04-11T00:58:06 < qyx> so I may try esp32-c3 and if I fail, stm32wl
2022-04-11T00:58:11 < qyx> subgig is the future
2022-04-11T00:58:13 < qyx> fuck lora
2022-04-11T00:58:31 < karlp> yeah, zigbee went and added subgig.
2022-04-11T00:58:36 < karlp> ble jus said, "coded phy"
2022-04-11T00:58:42 < karlp> and presto, 2.4gig, long range...
2022-04-11T00:58:54 < karlp> (not that I've used it)
2022-04-11T00:58:57 < qyx> whats the actual range of BLE now?
2022-04-11T00:59:05 < karlp> coded phy claims 1km or something?
2022-04-11T00:59:12 < karlp> you get 125kbps instead of 2mbps
2022-04-11T00:59:30 < qyx> thats okay for sensor stuff
2022-04-11T00:59:49 < qyx> even 10 m may be okay if mesh works
2022-04-11T00:59:50 < karlp> indeed, which was also the people who wanted longer range.
2022-04-11T01:00:13 < karlp> yeah, I've currently not realyl looked at the mesh stuff, it seems to have some interesting provisioning requirements.
2022-04-11T01:00:25 < karlp> I'm just using advertising
2022-04-11T01:01:06 < karlp> piconet in theory allows 8 devices at a time, but not sure how much I'd trust a bunhc of shit to actualy do that properly, and I want like ~15 plus anyway, so just advertising is cool.
2022-04-11T01:01:17 < karlp> I can connect to them in turn if I need more.
2022-04-11T01:01:31 < karlp> and bt5 gave extended advertising so longer packets, and synchronized sleeping for advertising too.
2022-04-11T01:06:03 < qyx> k going with ble then
2022-04-11T01:06:08 < qyx> anyway, sleep time
2022-04-11T01:16:59 < aandrew> wtf
2022-04-11T01:17:44 < aandrew> I reflowed the FT2232H, no change. I replaced the FT2232H, no change, I put a 1k pullup between 3.3V and the TDO input (pin 14 on 56Q package) and it's dropping like 3.2V across the 1k resistor
2022-04-11T01:17:51 < aandrew> that pin is just stuck low
2022-04-11T01:19:32 < aandrew> wow
2022-04-11T01:19:35 < aandrew> you know what the fuck it was
2022-04-11T01:19:52 < aandrew> ftdi_layout_init 0xf200 0xffff
2022-04-11T01:20:29 < aandrew> in MPSSE mode it seems to be using that init line for ADBUS0-3 even though it shouldn't be
2022-04-11T01:23:17 < aandrew> now it's reading all ones at least
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2022-04-11T14:49:25 < kakium69> anyone have examples of portable atomic block implementations?
2022-04-11T14:55:19 < kakium69> is there any standard way?
2022-04-11T15:11:18 < josuah> atomic bloc? some packet protocol?
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2022-04-11T15:43:34 < kakium69> interesting enum defaults to using word instead of byte in AVR
2022-04-11T15:47:27 < kakium69> that's why I type cast it
2022-04-11T15:57:47 < Steffanx> Or enums default to int which happens to be 16 bit on avr?
2022-04-11T15:58:54 < karlp> ^^
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2022-04-11T22:41:28 < kakium69> catphish: workshop today?
2022-04-11T22:41:59 < catphish> kakium69: yes :)
2022-04-11T22:42:06 < catphish> i'll find some photos
2022-04-11T22:45:29 < catphish> kakium69: today's tasks: finish battery mounting frame with additional cross supports, remove gearstick, finish welding battery water pipes and cut holes in box for them
2022-04-11T22:45:33 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/ODa0i6u
2022-04-11T22:46:04 < catphish> i also fixed a broken 3d printer ready for printing some parts for the battery box (holder for BMS PCB, holder for pre-charge resistor)
2022-04-11T22:52:23 < kakium69> soon it will be battery load time
2022-04-11T22:57:20 < kakium69> what is that profile? 50mm x 4mm?
2022-04-11T22:59:31 < catphish> 40 x 3
2022-04-11T23:00:15 < catphish> the main frame is 40x3, the inner cross pieces are 30x3
2022-04-11T23:00:23 < catphish> just what happened to be lying around
2022-04-11T23:07:31 < kakium69> how wide is that front?
2022-04-11T23:08:36 < BrainDamage> do you have a self destruction system where the water instead is circulated inside the batteries?
2022-04-11T23:09:13 < kakium69> water instead?
2022-04-11T23:10:50 < BrainDamage> instead of outside the batteries
2022-04-11T23:10:57 < BrainDamage> in the heat exchanger
2022-04-11T23:11:07 < BrainDamage> you circulate in the electrolythe
2022-04-11T23:11:50 < kakium69> about that: catphish remember to add a drain system for that box
2022-04-11T23:17:48 < kakium69> just a plug in a corner or so
2022-04-11T23:19:53 < kakium69> or a stub of pipe at rear side wall bottom
2022-04-11T23:20:14 < kakium69> you can attach a rubber hose to as a breather
2022-04-11T23:21:10 < kakium69> if you make just a hole to bottom it will easily get road dust there
2022-04-11T23:22:40 < catphish> kakium69: yeah, will probably just drill some hole in the bottom
2022-04-11T23:23:04 < catphish> maybe a hole with a cover over it
2022-04-11T23:24:32 < kakium69> maybe a piece of mud flap
2022-04-11T23:25:10 < kakium69> something kinda rubbery plastic that is springy
2022-04-11T23:37:55 < machinehum> http://wiki.lindeni.org/index.php/Lindenis_V5
2022-04-11T23:38:10 < machinehum> The creators of that board made zero effort to upstream anything
2022-04-11T23:38:15 < machinehum> It's insane
2022-04-11T23:38:41 < machinehum> Then "forked" uboot by cloning it, deleting the .git folder and "git init"-ing and add and push
2022-04-11T23:38:45 < machinehum> like for fuck sakes
2022-04-11T23:39:00 < machinehum> Have some shitty image with kernel 4.4
2022-04-11T23:39:05 < machinehum> fml
2022-04-11T23:42:50 < qyx> boards look quite basic
2022-04-11T23:43:05 < qyx> except the V536 SoM
2022-04-11T23:43:40 < qyx> but I hate such boards, connectors on the whole perimeter
2022-04-11T23:43:44 < Xogium> its common unfortunately, too common, for board vendors to never upstream anything
2022-04-11T23:44:03 < Xogium> even some SoC vendors
2022-04-11T23:44:10 < Xogium> *cough* allwinner
2022-04-11T23:44:48 < machinehum> Braindead idiots
2022-04-11T23:44:57 < Xogium> they don't upstream, and everything that is allwinner based and runs halfway decently on mainline linux/u-boot, we have the community to thank for
2022-04-11T23:44:59 < machinehum> They don't understand their shit has no value without software
2022-04-11T23:45:07 < machinehum> yes
2022-04-11T23:45:13 < machinehum> Linux-sunxi people are amazing
2022-04-11T23:45:33 < Xogium> indeed
2022-04-11T23:46:57 < Xogium> I've not honestly seen many vendors that make a real effort at upstreaming
2022-04-11T23:47:22 < Xogium> even the pine64 folks seem to go at it the wrong way
2022-04-11T23:47:34 < Xogium> their priority is distro support… not kernel or u-boot support
2022-04-11T23:47:44 < machinehum> However this is a Allwinner V5, which has very little upstreamed shit
2022-04-11T23:47:50 < Xogium> aww
2022-04-11T23:47:51 < machinehum> Who are they
2022-04-11T23:47:55 < machinehum> Omlinux?
2022-04-11T23:47:57 < Xogium> feel for you
2022-04-11T23:48:11 < machinehum> https://www.olimex.com/
2022-04-11T23:48:15 < machinehum> These guys
2022-04-11T23:48:17 < Xogium> I delt or tried to deal with, an allwinner f1c200s
2022-04-11T23:48:23 < Xogium> 0 upstream
2022-04-11T23:48:57 < machinehum> They're really good, almost all board they make have buildroot support and they're boards are fully open source
2022-04-11T23:49:02 < machinehum> Xogium: Shittttt
2022-04-11T23:49:10 < machinehum> I think I started a project with that part
2022-04-11T23:49:32 < machinehum> It's the 1$ one right? Internal 64Mb ram
2022-04-11T23:49:59 < Xogium> yea olimex seemed decent, until they refused to reply to my email about the fact that my paypal is canadian still and they apparently refuse orders that are payed from a different country than the intended recipient
2022-04-11T23:50:12 < Xogium> yes that's the one
2022-04-11T23:50:32 < machinehum> You moved from Canada to?
2022-04-11T23:50:44 < Xogium> france
2022-04-11T23:50:49 < kakium69> catphish: have you test loaded that front strut?
2022-04-11T23:50:57 < machinehum> That's cool
2022-04-11T23:50:59 < machinehum> For work?
2022-04-11T23:51:49 < Xogium> not particularly, honestly I felt like canada was going to hell. Probably a bad feeling that had no real meaning behind it, but not 3 months after I left, total lockdown went up
2022-04-11T23:52:15 < Xogium> still, I left, mostly because I was sick of the country, I wanted to go and see somewhere else, if you'll pardon me the expression hehe
2022-04-11T23:52:53 < machinehum> Fair enough
2022-04-11T23:53:07 < Xogium> I didn't feel exactly wanted either, both by family and in other context like work
2022-04-11T23:53:13 < Xogium> or even school
2022-04-11T23:53:20 < machinehum> :(
2022-04-11T23:53:44 < Xogium> got expelled because my braille display had stopped working… I never bothered coming back, and that's kinda when I started to learn embedded linux
2022-04-11T23:55:15 < Xogium> I actually hadn't planned on getting stuck in france, but when the lockdown went up, and after it finally calmed down enough to open the borders again, I found that I didn't feel like going back
2022-04-11T23:55:36 < machinehum> Why the hell with they expel you for that?
2022-04-11T23:55:51 < Xogium> their reason was, because you're slowing down everyone else
2022-04-11T23:56:03 < Xogium> I never determined if they were joking or not
2022-04-11T23:56:17 < machinehum> I'm sorry that happened to youi
2022-04-11T23:56:19 < machinehum> you
2022-04-11T23:57:25 < Xogium> that day, I was so angry I was litterally shaking, I didn't even notice I had forgotten to bring back the laptop school rented me for the year. By the time I noticed it, I was back home hehehe
2022-04-11T23:57:40 < Xogium> they never asked to get it back, weird enough. So I kept it :D
2022-04-11T23:57:50 < machinehum> Nice laptop?
2022-04-11T23:58:28 < Xogium> yeah, no powerhouse by any means, but it was decent enough… 4 gb of ddr3, spinning disk, but a neat core i5 inside
2022-04-11T23:59:40 < Xogium> first thing I did when it was clar they didn't want it back was to send windows flying out the window, hah hah
2022-04-11T23:59:55 < Xogium> that's when I really started learning linux, boy was it fun
--- Day changed ti huhti 12 2022
2022-04-12T00:00:10 < catphish> kakium69: none of it has been load tested, except for my friend who insisted it was strong and jumped up and down on it while installed in the car
2022-04-12T00:00:23 < kakium69> that is what I meant
2022-04-12T00:00:24 < catphish> so, it can take 100kg i guess :)
2022-04-12T00:01:11 < Xogium> laptop survived until 2018 or so
2022-04-12T00:01:35 < Xogium> about 10 years old I reckon
2022-04-12T00:01:53 < Xogium> with a few upgrades that had been done over the years, probably
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2022-04-12T00:44:59 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6SXU2G-juQ musiks
2022-04-12T00:47:20 < catphish> weird musics
2022-04-12T00:48:19 < kakium69> ain't it
2022-04-12T01:00:25 < kakium69> what is that melody though
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2022-04-12T01:42:48 < machinehum> Xogium: nice
2022-04-12T01:43:18 < machinehum> I'm decent with embedded linux because I'm decent with desktop linux because I'm decent with HPC servers running huge clusters
2022-04-12T01:43:21 < machinehum> It's all the same
2022-04-12T01:43:57 < machinehum> Xogium: Want to help me try to upstream buildroot support for the V5 I'll buy you a board lol
2022-04-12T01:44:06 < machinehum> It's for an open source project
2022-04-12T01:45:38 < catphish> i'm goog with linux, but i have embedded linux, much prefer bare metals :)
2022-04-12T01:53:20 < catphish> musics catphish likes https://soundcloud.com/viperrecordings/jack-mirror-with-you-ft-flowanastasia-vpr265
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2022-04-12T02:55:29 < mawk> use preempt rt catphish
2022-04-12T02:55:34 < mawk> then it feels like baremetal
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2022-04-12T14:11:55 < karlp> catphish: reminds me of pendulum
2022-04-12T14:16:59 < catphish> UK drum and bass, so similar i guess
2022-04-12T14:17:29 < catphish> actually pendumum are australian, i didn't know that
2022-04-12T14:18:08 < karlp> they're from WA though, so might as well be another country...
2022-04-12T14:20:33 < karlp> you might like this nuttery: https://youtu.be/7Xuy0GAsnNQ?t=63
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2022-04-12T14:54:24 < kakium69> whaat
2022-04-12T14:54:39 < kakium69> his scredding that tape deck
2022-04-12T14:56:08 < kakium69> he is*
2022-04-12T14:59:21 < kakium69> insane
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2022-04-12T16:06:55 < fenugrec> why do I get the impression this is photoshopped... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/a1gAAOSwmnNgbNey/s-l1600.jpg
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2022-04-12T16:19:29 < mawk> what makes you say this fenugrec
2022-04-12T16:19:41 < mawk> this is a reasonable expectation
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2022-04-12T16:19:53 < mawk> you can even smell the forest in odorama I'm sure
2022-04-12T16:20:04 < kakium69> that is how 128x128 display looks like in wild
2022-04-12T16:20:29 < kakium69> incredible detail
2022-04-12T16:20:54 < fenugrec> aah. Must be the TFT in there. Technical Forest technology
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2022-04-12T17:24:19 < englishman> related, innolux recently built a prototype 2000ppi miniled panel for vr
2022-04-12T17:24:35 < englishman> not going to be $5 tho
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2022-04-12T18:12:42 < mawk> zyp: do you remember my problem with the input buffer drawing power when the pin is at a voltage in the CMOS undeterminate zone
2022-04-12T18:12:49 < mawk> then you told me to use analog mode and it worked
2022-04-12T18:13:21 < mawk> it worked on one of our boards where that voltage is 1.8V, but on another board it's 1.2V and there it draws 30µA extra even in analog mode
2022-04-12T18:13:24 < mawk> which is not acceptable
2022-04-12T18:13:32 < mawk> do you have any idea what could be drawing this
2022-04-12T18:18:24 < mawk> 1.1V actually
2022-04-12T18:20:42 < bitmask> anyone understand the differences between internal and external storage for android devices? I know apps can only install to internal storage but can you create folders and store videos in internal storage too?
2022-04-12T18:26:08 < bitmask> meh i'll just use it as external
2022-04-12T18:28:54 < mawk> yeah what you said
2022-04-12T18:30:22 < mawk> internal storage can hold apps and so on
2022-04-12T18:30:32 < mawk> external storage might be slightly eharder to use
2022-04-12T18:30:38 < mawk> but there's always a way to get by
2022-04-12T18:31:10 < bitmask> i dont have many apps so i should be good with the 8gb internal it comes with
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2022-04-12T18:57:16 < bitmask> isopropyl vs ethanol
2022-04-12T18:57:17 < bitmask> go
2022-04-12T18:57:18 < bitmask> !
2022-04-12T18:58:35 < karlp> one is safe to drink, one isn't?
2022-04-12T18:59:59 < bitmask> well it will be denatured so no it wont
2022-04-12T19:00:07 < bitmask> are they similar as solvents?
2022-04-12T19:05:21 < kakium69> ##aa32
2022-04-12T19:06:07 < kakium69> bitmask: similar if compared to acetone
2022-04-12T19:06:56 < bitmask> hmm
2022-04-12T19:07:17 < kakium69> I think main difference is vaporization
2022-04-12T19:07:32 < kakium69> IPA goes away faster
2022-04-12T19:07:42 < bitmask> i guess id preferyea
2022-04-12T19:07:48 < bitmask> llakdsjf
2022-04-12T19:07:49 < bitmask> yea
2022-04-12T19:08:00 < kakium69> fer general use 50% IPA is good
2022-04-12T19:08:08 < BrainDamage> for most things, they are the same, there's some selected things that get dissolved by one but not the other
2022-04-12T19:08:17 < kakium69> water makes stuff more soluable
2022-04-12T19:08:57 < bitmask> i'll go with ipa, id rather not have a denaturing agent that might leave a residue
2022-04-12T19:09:54 < kakium69> another thing with ethanol is that someone might mistake you have been drinkin
2022-04-12T19:10:25 < BrainDamage> here the smell and colour make it really obvious it's not the drinkable version
2022-04-12T19:10:59 < kakium69> you need to get extra pure sprit for "instruments"
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2022-04-12T19:13:01 < bitmask_> ugh... internet is down again
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2022-04-12T19:21:08 < catphish> bitmask: and yet your messages are reaching me :)
2022-04-12T19:21:25 < bitmask> im using my phone's hotspot feature
2022-04-12T19:21:33 < bitmask> nice and slow...
2022-04-12T19:23:12 < kakium69> is "c" allowed variable name?
2022-04-12T19:23:17 < kakium69> lower case c
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2022-04-12T19:34:55 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/aeQYeBx.jpeg
2022-04-12T19:34:58 < mawk> USB-enabled fire alarm
2022-04-12T19:35:07 < mawk> do you want me to come in your office to wire it up Steffanx ?
2022-04-12T19:35:14 < mawk> programmed to go off at each meeting
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2022-04-12T19:45:39 < kakium69> you would want fire alarm to depend on usb
2022-04-12T19:45:59 < kakium69> what is that relay board?
2022-04-12T19:46:11 < kakium69> custom mawk pcb?
2022-04-12T19:46:28 < BrainDamage> I think it's not-fire alarm, fire alarm device
2022-04-12T19:46:37 < mawk> no kakium69 it's https://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/usb-rly08c.html
2022-04-12T19:46:51 < mawk> yeah it's not for fire
2022-04-12T19:46:53 < BrainDamage> also, you can buy zigbee / wifi sirens
2022-04-12T19:46:57 < mawk> it's to trigger whe there is a meeting
2022-04-12T19:47:03 < mawk> so colleagues hurry up
2022-04-12T19:47:16 < mawk> yeah but there's less fun in making it
2022-04-12T19:47:18 < BrainDamage> do you work from home?
2022-04-12T19:47:25 < mawk> it was part of hack night with colleagues
2022-04-12T19:47:31 < mawk> half the time yes
2022-04-12T19:47:36 < BrainDamage> I think it'll last 1 week
2022-04-12T19:47:46 < mawk> lol
2022-04-12T19:47:49 < mawk> until someone sabotages it
2022-04-12T19:48:00 < mawk> comes at 2am to snip the wire
2022-04-12T19:48:20 < BrainDamage> at 2am? I'd go in the busisest hour with a giant bolt cutter
2022-04-12T19:48:26 < BrainDamage> and make a big show of it
2022-04-12T19:48:39 < BrainDamage> break the whole siren, not just the wire
2022-04-12T19:49:00 < BrainDamage> an example needs to be set about what's acceptable
2022-04-12T19:49:15 < mawk> lol
2022-04-12T19:49:25 < mawk> you can select the tune with a DIP switch, I selected the most bearable one
2022-04-12T19:49:29 < mawk> and I turned down the volume
2022-04-12T19:49:32 < mawk> people will love it
2022-04-12T19:49:57 < mawk> also there are 3 wires you see coming into the alarm, that's to select between 2 different tunes so people don't get bored of the sound
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2022-04-12T20:08:34 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE musics
2022-04-12T20:10:20 < BrainDamage> frank klepacki is a god
2022-04-12T20:10:56 < BrainDamage> c&c RA1 soundtrack is awesome too
2022-04-12T20:11:38 < kakium69> I have never played c&c
2022-04-12T20:11:45 < kakium69> only dune2000
2022-04-12T20:11:58 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9HF26dubhg
2022-04-12T20:20:10 < kakium69> did you play c&c in 90s BrainDamage?
2022-04-12T20:20:20 < BrainDamage> no, but I played RA1
2022-04-12T20:21:15 < kakium69> those gayming sessions in 90s man...
2022-04-12T20:21:49 < BrainDamage> I remember setting up "lan parties" linking consoles with my neighbours
2022-04-12T20:22:54 < kakium69> I didn't have console we were all pc gang
2022-04-12T20:23:25 < kakium69> hot seat and one keyboard 2 players were all I could do
2022-04-12T20:23:42 < BrainDamage> my sister had a pc for work that I used at times
2022-04-12T20:23:46 < kakium69> I tried to make zero-modem cable to work in early 2000s but I was dum dum then
2022-04-12T20:23:53 < BrainDamage> but couldn't use it much
2022-04-12T20:24:04 < BrainDamage> so I begged my parents to buy me a ps1
2022-04-12T20:26:57 < kakium69> our school had lan party evening once or twice
2022-04-12T20:27:10 < kakium69> also remote school day via ircs
2022-04-12T20:27:36 < kakium69> couldn't get ircs to work though
2022-04-12T20:27:51 < kakium69> as said I was dumdum
2022-04-12T20:29:14 < kakium69> maybe it didn't work because I was on landline getting advice for connecting
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2022-04-12T20:41:15 < karlp> well, no idea why my rtos crashes, but bare metal works just fine so....
2022-04-12T20:41:18 < karlp> moving right along then...
2022-04-12T20:42:04 < kakium69> stack overflow
2022-04-12T20:42:10 < karlp> one would think, yes...
2022-04-12T20:42:18 < bitmask> red alert was awesome, but not as good as starcraft
2022-04-12T20:42:44 < BrainDamage> starcraft waayy to manual for my tastes
2022-04-12T20:43:08 < kakium69> isn't starcraft still being played competetivelly?
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2022-04-12T20:43:44 < BrainDamage> mostly starcraft 2, but yes
2022-04-12T20:43:57 < BrainDamage> exactly because it's manual
2022-04-12T20:44:32 < bitmask> i dont think i ever tried 2
2022-04-12T20:44:41 < kakium69> I don't even know what starcraft looks like
2022-04-12T20:47:35 < kakium69> ah it looks like wow
2022-04-12T20:47:42 < kakium69> WoW
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2022-04-12T21:17:23 < mawk> how to have both fast response time and low quiescent current when using a p-fet as a switch
2022-04-12T21:17:35 < mawk> weak pull-up is slow, strong pullup consumes power
2022-04-12T21:18:14 < mawk> maybe it doesn't consume that much power in the end
2022-04-12T21:20:35 < mawk> actually it's fixed, like you said the other time BrainDamage
2022-04-12T21:20:50 < mawk> it's the leakage current of the fet
2022-04-12T21:21:01 < Steffanx-> You never played C&C games kakium69 ?!!
2022-04-12T21:21:27 < Xogium> ugh I'm so, so annoyed now
2022-04-12T21:21:42 < Steffanx-> Don't be.
2022-04-12T21:21:51 < Xogium> I just destroyed a board in a very stupid but impossible to know way if you can't see a damned schematic
2022-04-12T21:22:12 < Steffanx-> It's just as easy to do it when you can see it ;)
2022-04-12T21:22:19 < Xogium> well maybe not the whole board but… at the very least the usb
2022-04-12T21:22:46 < Steffanx-> Oh, nevermind is misread what you said
2022-04-12T21:22:55 < Steffanx-> Maybe
2022-04-12T21:23:18 < Xogium> idiots decided that to save cost, they wouldn't put regulators for usb
2022-04-12T21:23:39 < Xogium> I plugged something that can consume up to 1a of power. Boom
2022-04-12T21:24:32 < Xogium> I just… didn't know they didn't add regulators
2022-04-12T21:26:54 < Xogium> like… why
2022-04-12T21:26:57 < Xogium> just why
2022-04-12T21:27:12 < Xogium> surely a regulator doesn't cost *that* much ?
2022-04-12T21:29:07 < Xogium> my guess is I blew up the resistor for usb by overloading it, which then blew up a capacitor or two, yecch that smell
2022-04-12T21:30:44 < fenugrec> some usb hubs have a ptc resettable fuse. Or one laptop I had sometimes shut down the power to a usb port and needed a reboot after a shortciruit (happened once or twice)
2022-04-12T21:31:26 < Xogium> yeah… I wish I had one of those
2022-04-12T21:31:43 < Xogium> still, talk about a way to cheap out
2022-04-12T21:32:13 < fenugrec> well some people keep buying the absolute cheapest shit to save a few pennies. Manufacturers happily oblige by saving a few pennies
2022-04-12T21:32:43 < fenugrec> not accusing you of this, just saying, there is demand for cheap garbage
2022-04-12T21:32:50 < jpa-> Xogium: what was the board powered from?
2022-04-12T21:33:13 < Xogium> I guess, but god. That whole usb regulator thing didn't cross my mind. I never thought about it, fact I didn't know why it blew up at first obviously
2022-04-12T21:33:23 < fenugrec> (hah re-reading my message, that sounded super passive-aggressive but wasn't meant that way)
2022-04-12T21:33:37 < Xogium> jpa-: usb charger
2022-04-12T21:34:03 < Xogium> but the port I blew up is the port I connected some device to, the otg port
2022-04-12T21:34:55 < jpa-> protecting USB ports from overcurrent does take some effort and is quite rare actually, in a sense that board is probably pushing the responsibility to the usb charger you are supplying it from
2022-04-12T21:35:27 < jpa-> though OTG ports usually do have a power switch chip that implements overcurrent protection also
2022-04-12T21:35:49 < Xogium> but… shouldn't it protect only the power input of the port it is using to power the board ?
2022-04-12T21:36:01 < Xogium> I mean, what of other usb ports on the board, shouldn't the board handle them
2022-04-12T21:36:24 < jpa-> if the charger doesn't supply huge amount of current, the board cannot push huge amount of power out either
2022-04-12T21:36:37 < jpa-> kind of like USB hub or USB cable, total out is total in
2022-04-12T21:36:45 < Xogium> hmm
2022-04-12T21:36:56 < Xogium> then I'm even more confused
2022-04-12T21:37:16 < jpa-> most USB chargers nowadays supply a lot more than the USB spec calls for without negotiation, though
2022-04-12T21:37:22 < Xogium> I know that the usb speakers I connected can draw up to 1a of power
2022-04-12T21:37:37 < jpa-> which board?
2022-04-12T21:37:50 < Xogium> mangopi
2022-04-12T21:38:46 < Xogium> the broken capacitors also spewed some stuff all over the board… I figured IPA is the way to go to clean it
2022-04-12T21:39:00 < Xogium> but no idea if its even worth it lol
2022-04-12T21:39:16 < jpa-> breaking capacitors by overloading an USB port also sounds very weird
2022-04-12T21:39:28 < Xogium> yeah I really am confused
2022-04-12T21:39:37 < Xogium> I mean, that was my only theory
2022-04-12T21:40:42 < jpa-> it seems there are a bazillion different boards called mangopi, do you have a more accurate part number or link?
2022-04-12T21:41:00 < Xogium> https://mangopi.cc/_media/r3c-sch.pdf
2022-04-12T21:41:06 < Xogium> if it helps
2022-04-12T21:41:11 < jpa-> i'll take a look
2022-04-12T21:42:18 < jpa-> that has just a straight wire from input micro-usb to output micro-usb connector
2022-04-12T21:42:38 < jpa-> 1A shouldn't be enough to damage anything there
2022-04-12T21:44:20 < Xogium> then… what in the bloody world happened
2022-04-12T21:46:26 < jpa-> the board also has only ceramic capacitors, which do not spew anything when breaking
2022-04-12T21:46:48 < jpa-> (and to me it seems like there are no parts that would)
2022-04-12T21:51:22 < Xogium> what the hell… I'm like
2022-04-12T21:51:36 < Xogium> I really don't understand what is going on
2022-04-12T21:51:48 < Xogium> thanks for checking the schematic out btw
2022-04-12T22:00:51 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-12T22:01:22 < Posterdati> still canno figure out what make __libc_init_array triggers an HardFault
2022-04-12T22:02:22 < fenugrec> Xogium, are you sure the smell is from that particular board
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2022-04-12T22:27:51 < kakium69> catphish: workshop day?
2022-04-12T22:29:28 < catphish> kakium69: nein
2022-04-12T22:29:48 < catphish> kakium69: i was supposed to do some CAD today but didn't do much
2022-04-12T22:30:06 < kakium69> hmm
2022-04-12T22:30:09 < kakium69> normal day
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2022-04-12T22:56:33 < zyp> karlp, I don't assume you've done any i2c with laks?
2022-04-12T23:04:32 < zyp> I need to hack up touchscreen support for the f7disco, which means I need to hack up an i2cv2 driver as well
2022-04-12T23:07:48 < mawk> I have to solder wires to pads of a 96 pin LGA package
2022-04-12T23:07:59 < mawk> to make a breakout board
2022-04-12T23:08:21 < mawk> and have all GND connected together
2022-04-12T23:08:32 < mawk> not the most enjoyable experience
2022-04-12T23:09:33 < BrainDamage> why
2022-04-12T23:09:49 < BrainDamage> there are breakout boards you can buy
2022-04-12T23:10:29 < Xogium> fenugrec: honestly I don't know anymore heh
2022-04-12T23:10:36 < Xogium> could be the psu, for all I know
2022-04-12T23:12:58 < Xogium> but something did definitely smell like fish and rotting eggs
2022-04-12T23:13:29 < Xogium> if it can't be the board, then… my guess is its the psu somehow
2022-04-12T23:14:35 < mawk> for this chip BrainDamage ?
2022-04-12T23:14:44 < mawk> it's still under nda
2022-04-12T23:14:56 < mawk> and I need it now, not in a month or even a week
2022-04-12T23:15:45 < BrainDamage> mawk: unless it's a proprietary LGA, there are somewhat standard breakouts for cpus
2022-04-12T23:16:38 < mawk> it's not a regular annular square grid, it has that but also a different pattern inside
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2022-04-12T23:31:46 < mawk> also I don't really have what to solder such a chip
2022-04-12T23:31:51 < mawk> no reflow oven or hotplate
2022-04-12T23:31:55 < mawk> just tiny hot air
2022-04-12T23:32:34 < mawk> maybe with perseverance and lots of flux I could do it, but there's no way to check if all pins are good without xray I believe
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2022-04-12T23:46:23 < kakium69> hello night shift
2022-04-12T23:47:44 < karlp> zyp:no i2c sorry.
2022-04-12T23:47:55 < karlp> I generally will choose spi over i2c when available.
2022-04-12T23:48:59 < zyp> same
2022-04-12T23:49:14 < zyp> but I got no choice now :)
2022-04-12T23:50:20 < zyp> finally got all the parts I needed for this prototype thing I'm making based on a f7disco for the UI and shit's more or less done but people wanted a way to adjust some settings
2022-04-12T23:50:35 < zyp> and the only reasonable way to do that is via the touchscreen
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2022-04-13T00:27:05 < karlp> can anyone remember the magic ## incantations to do a preprocessor check against a string?
2022-04-13T00:27:17 < karlp> I thought I had it somewhere in some existing ocde but I cna't find it.
2022-04-13T00:27:45 < karlp> silabs has done a "-DSL_BOARD_NAME="BRD4184A"" that I want to catch and split on..
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2022-04-13T00:44:56 < kakium69> my code is lit
2022-04-13T00:45:01 < kakium69> damn
2022-04-13T00:54:47 < zyp> got interrupted a bit, but I2Cv2 looks pretty damn easy to drive compared to v1
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2022-04-13T01:16:38 < kakium69> your codes lit zyp?
2022-04-13T01:22:23 < kakium69> just a couple days and my simple 1000line pwm control code is ready for testing
2022-04-13T01:22:38 < zyp> okay, this appears to be a functional i2c_read(): https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ntZiV
2022-04-13T01:22:55 < zyp> definitely easier than v1
2022-04-13T01:25:04 < zyp> the x/y regs aren't returning anything but 0xff so I guess I'll have to implement i2c_write too and figure out what regs are needed to initialize
2022-04-13T01:30:36 < zyp> doesn't look like the BSP code writes anything though
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2022-04-13T01:33:55 < kakium69> why not use defines for bit numbers?
2022-04-13T01:40:36 < zyp> okay, I am getting touch data, it helps actually touching the screen
2022-04-13T01:42:19 < qyx> sounds reasonable
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2022-04-13T01:53:19 < karlp> lol, doing bt training exercises to work out how best to bend this shit to my will,
2022-04-13T01:53:36 < karlp> "restart dbus" to put in some permis for a demo test service
2022-04-13T01:53:46 < karlp> totally overlooked that that was going to nuke my session :)
2022-04-13T01:54:42 < kakium69> what is that called that difference of type's max and min?
2022-04-13T01:54:46 < kakium69> range?
2022-04-13T01:55:24 < kakium69> for my comments I need that word
2022-04-13T01:55:36 < catphish> range is a reasonable word, ues
2022-04-13T01:55:39 < catphish> *yes
2022-04-13T01:56:50 < karlp> whee: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ehnkI.png
2022-04-13T01:57:52 < catphish> good math
2022-04-13T01:59:57 < fenugrec> no RPN ? heh
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2022-04-13T02:15:34 < fenugrec> Interesting : as far as I can tell, 99.9% of those crappy 128x to 240x240 LCD modules, *never* show an actual pic of what the display looks like. They all have a shitty photoshopped high-res wallpaper instead
2022-04-13T02:17:18 < kakium69> have you ever coded too hard
2022-04-13T02:17:20 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-13T02:24:59 < kakium69> suddenly I just code at 1000% performance I cannot control it
2022-04-13T02:29:45 < mawk> you're making a dbus service karlp ?
2022-04-13T02:37:40 < qyx> karlp: do I assume correctly every BLE5 support long range with coded phy?
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2022-04-13T02:52:08 < karlp> qyx: no, aiui, it's an optional part, so depends on the hardware whether it does or not,
2022-04-13T02:52:17 < karlp> though, again, aiui, it's a software change only, which was the point.
2022-04-13T02:52:23 < karlp> so ~yes?
2022-04-13T02:52:35 < karlp> mawk:fuck no, just doing a tutorial on bluetooth and linux :)
2022-04-13T02:52:58 < karlp> I've not actually got any of the dbus bluez abstractions, or raw, to give me _all_ the advertising data,
2022-04-13T02:53:32 < karlp> bleson which talks HCI directly works nicely, but that seems super problematic long term to expect to own the HCI interface with a python process.
2022-04-13T02:53:41 < karlp> enough for a "works good" before the easter break though :)
2022-04-13T03:20:11 < zyp> project done, time to call it a day
2022-04-13T03:21:53 < zyp> verdict: I2Cv2 is a killer feature, to the point where in the future I'll probably avoid anything with I2Cv1 for projects needing i2c
2022-04-13T03:22:59 < zyp> given that I probably wouldn't use F1/F2/L1 for anything anyway, that boils down to avoid F4 for anything i2c
2022-04-13T03:25:03 < zyp> also, I think I'm seeing an USB errata on older F7 or something
2022-04-13T03:25:50 < zyp> newer f7disco didn't have the issue, but I semi-killed it, so I dug up an older board that I had, and it sporadically gets stuck during USB reset
2022-04-13T03:25:58 < zyp> or USB init rather
2022-04-13T03:26:03 < zyp> (PHY reset)
2022-04-13T03:26:33 < zyp> not a big deal, only used USB for development IO, so I just disabled it
2022-04-13T03:31:59 < t4nk_freenode> Device Id: 01000001000100010001000001000011 (0x41111043) Manufacturer: Lattice Semiconductors (0x043)
2022-04-13T03:32:22 < t4nk_freenode> oi zyp, I soldered some headers onto the board last night
2022-04-13T03:32:48 < t4nk_freenode> flashed dirtyjtag onto a bluepill
2022-04-13T03:33:38 < t4nk_freenode> tried urjtag and openfpgaloader on it
2022-04-13T03:33:44 < t4nk_freenode> seems to respond
2022-04-13T03:34:16 < t4nk_freenode> too bad I know nothing about this whole business ;)
2022-04-13T03:35:35 < t4nk_freenode> I thought I'd somehow make a backup of the board before I continued, but I can't even get that done
2022-04-13T03:35:43 < t4nk_freenode> but I think I
2022-04-13T03:36:05 < t4nk_freenode> found some firmware online that has already been extracted
2022-04-13T03:36:34 < zyp> you can just load right into the fpga without writing the flash
2022-04-13T03:36:46 < zyp> that way it'll be back to original firmware after powercycle
2022-04-13T03:37:03 < t4nk_freenode> seems like sth called 'ecpprog' could do it out of the box, but it uses ftdi
2022-04-13T03:37:24 < t4nk_freenode> yeah zyp, I sort of got that principle too, .. loading it into ram
2022-04-13T03:38:19 < zyp> did you try openFPGALoader --dump-flash ?
2022-04-13T03:38:22 < t4nk_freenode> but how it's done was still a puzzle ;)
2022-04-13T03:38:44 < t4nk_freenode> openfpga loader kept whining about a 'bus'
2022-04-13T03:39:09 < zyp> idk then, I've never used it to read flash, just write
2022-04-13T03:39:18 < t4nk_freenode> I tried specifying 'ejtag', but it didn't seem to work
2022-04-13T03:39:52 < t4nk_freenode> nothing was really listed for a busname that might work
2022-04-13T03:44:35 < t4nk_freenode> ah, dup-flash seems to work, zyp ;)
2022-04-13T03:46:30 < t4nk_freenode> o o, I just specified '4000000' for the dump size.. this may be where the 'slow' part kicks in
2022-04-13T03:48:06 < t4nk_freenode> anyhow, since it's bit-banging, and it's running from a bluepill.. and it would run on a black pill as is, .. perhaps it can run at a higher clock speed you'd think
2022-04-13T03:48:40 < t4nk_freenode> 1m7secs to dump 4M btw
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2022-04-13T06:22:16 < ColdKeyboard> So it's been a while since I used L0. What would be potential issue(s) when my USART is not printing anything other than "â–’' at the beggining?
2022-04-13T06:29:27 < ColdKeyboard> Hal is returning HAL_OK btw on transmitt and pretty sure GPIO is configured properly
2022-04-13T06:34:23 < ColdKeyboard> Nevermind... swapped pins :)
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2022-04-13T12:12:36 < Posterdati> hi
2022-04-13T12:12:50 < Posterdati> I did track down the issue with __libc_init_array
2022-04-13T12:12:54 < Posterdati> now
2022-04-13T12:12:58 < Posterdati> it was very silly
2022-04-13T12:13:30 < Posterdati> since I specified --specs=nano.specs --specs=nosys.specs
2022-04-13T12:14:03 < Posterdati> the linker did want the float abi to be specified, not only the cpu and fpu type
2022-04-13T12:14:16 < Posterdati> so I missed -float-abi=hard
2022-04-13T12:14:43 < Posterdati> and the wrong version of library was linked!
2022-04-13T12:14:45 < Posterdati> now
2022-04-13T12:16:49 < Posterdati> I'm facing a second problem: I'd like the stack and heap be placed at the end of the RAM, I did: . = _sstack; .stack (NOLOAD) : { ... } >SRAM and . = _sheap; .heap (NOLOAD) : { ... } >SRAM in the linker script, but sections are sized correctly but not in the corresponding wanted ram area :)
2022-04-13T12:16:57 < Posterdati> thanks for help
2022-04-13T12:28:50 < karlp> Posterdati: consider looking for examples, https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cortex-m-generic.ld
2022-04-13T12:28:56 < karlp> _ebss is "start of heap"
2022-04-13T12:29:24 < Posterdati> karlp: I used memory regions and it worked
2022-04-13T12:29:35 < karlp> and you don't need any .stack NOLOAD shit, because you (shouldn't) have been trying to store things in those regions from code...
2022-04-13T12:29:50 < karlp> "and it worked" => "but you're asking for help that it's not working?" ?
2022-04-13T12:29:59 < karlp> you need to clarify your questions and problems a little then :)
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2022-04-13T12:30:16 < Posterdati> I think it was clear
2022-04-13T12:30:27 < karlp> ok, good luck.
2022-04-13T12:30:29 * karlp waves
2022-04-13T12:30:39 < Posterdati> karlp: thanks
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2022-04-13T14:04:46 < kakium69> afternoon32
2022-04-13T14:57:05 < kakium69> can enum have 2 elements with same value?
2022-04-13T14:58:05 < kakium69> specific: set element value that is later in list as value of earlier element
2022-04-13T14:59:25 < karlp> https://godbolt.org/z/fYh3cqM9n
2022-04-13T15:02:39 < kakium69> https://godbolt.org/z/8shhTbeT1 this fine?
2022-04-13T15:03:32 < kakium69> I want kind of bookmark where fault states start in state variable
2022-04-13T15:03:58 < kakium69> instead of using the first fault
2022-04-13T15:05:04 < kakium69> apparently
2022-04-13T15:05:16 < kakium69> compiler is fine with it
2022-04-13T15:06:19 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/l1m7v
2022-04-13T15:07:02 < karlp> yar, works fine :)
2022-04-13T15:07:27 < zyp> very pro
2022-04-13T15:09:42 < kakium69> it cannot preceed the element it gets it value from though
2022-04-13T15:10:50 < karlp> well, duh.
2022-04-13T15:13:58 < kakium69> godbolt is the bestest tool
2022-04-13T15:15:59 < kakium69> when I write code in visual studio there is symbol of fire in bottom status bar
2022-04-13T15:16:03 < kakium69> next to line number
2022-04-13T15:16:12 < kakium69> it means code is lit
2022-04-13T15:25:04 < kakium69> how do I make virtual interrupts
2022-04-13T15:25:09 < kakium69> for testing purposes
2022-04-13T15:25:11 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-13T15:25:54 < kakium69> 2 threads?
2022-04-13T15:26:23 < kakium69> suspend one then perform whatever interrupt stuff in another?
2022-04-13T15:27:49 < kakium69> just to test the logic is correct
2022-04-13T15:30:29 < kakium69> just ligthweight testing debugging configuration without any emulations and stuffs
2022-04-13T15:40:29 < kakium69> maybe something about c++20 async and futures?
2022-04-13T15:53:08 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, zyp, I did manage to upload a blinky to the board yesterday
2022-04-13T15:53:42 < t4nk_freenode> unfortunately I can't look at it, ... that thing gets me blind
2022-04-13T15:55:15 < t4nk_freenode> dump-flash returned files with all FFs, maybe that's how it's supposed to be if it's all empty, not sure if I should specify a certain region to get the right data or not
2022-04-13T16:00:33 < karlp> 0xff is is "empty" for flash, yes.
2022-04-13T16:00:59 < karlp> no idea if that's what it _should_ be for you, but in general, you'ðll see 0xff as blank/unprogrammed for flash
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2022-04-13T16:01:52 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I was trying to dump the original firmware of an fpga board
2022-04-13T16:03:53 < t4nk_freenode> since it's a receiver board, it should come preprogrammed, so there oughtta be something to read
2022-04-13T16:11:52 < karlp> if it should have had data, and you got 0xff, it might just be protection?
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2022-04-13T16:16:23 < t4nk_freenode> thought about that, I combined the unlock command with a dump command, maybe I should have run it separately
2022-04-13T16:16:29 < t4nk_freenode> I'll connect up again
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2022-04-13T16:25:12 < jpa-> if you have locked the flash for some reason, unlocking it erases the flash
2022-04-13T16:26:02 < t4nk_freenode> I hadn't locked it, hadn't programmed anything to it
2022-04-13T16:28:14 < t4nk_freenode> if I look at a dump from the web, data starts at 0007:0000
2022-04-13T16:28:29 < t4nk_freenode> I'm pretty sure I didn't see anything in my own dump yesterday
2022-04-13T16:29:10 < t4nk_freenode> though now I see one line at 0007:0000, matching the web version, but nothing after that
2022-04-13T16:30:23 < t4nk_freenode> so might well I have erased it just now by unlocking it through openFPGALoader
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2022-04-13T16:34:05 < karlp> _you_ might not have locked it, but it might have been locked from the vendor?
2022-04-13T16:34:27 < t4nk_freenode> I read that that would probably be the case indeed
2022-04-13T16:35:08 < t4nk_freenode> however, I'm not sure the lock would be for reading the content, just for writing to it
2022-04-13T16:37:12 < karlp> it's the same...
2022-04-13T16:37:26 < karlp> people who like liking things tend to care more about the reading thant he writing anyway.
2022-04-13T16:38:20 < t4nk_freenode> then that would mean making a dump of the original firmware would not be possible...
2022-04-13T16:38:34 < t4nk_freenode> since in order to read it you would have to unlock it,
2022-04-13T16:38:43 < t4nk_freenode> and by unlocking it, it would be erased
2022-04-13T16:38:56 < t4nk_freenode> yet I have user supplied dumps to chek
2022-04-13T16:38:59 < t4nk_freenode> check
2022-04-13T16:47:56 < t4nk_freenode> I think something fishy is going on; getting inconsistent readings
2022-04-13T16:49:04 < t4nk_freenode> https://dpaste.com/6F9QZ2HV7
2022-04-13T16:49:17 < t4nk_freenode> no idea what fail 0 means
2022-04-13T16:49:55 < t4nk_freenode> heh, but if I run the command several times, fail 0 will always show, but I'm reading different data upon a dump
2022-04-13T16:51:21 < t4nk_freenode> freq might be too high
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2022-04-13T17:39:28 < kakium69> will compiler always perform division of unsigned integer with bitshifting if divider is a constant power of two?
2022-04-13T17:40:02 < jpa-> probably
2022-04-13T17:40:12 < kakium69> I mean if I ditch that log2.hpp and just use / if I know that divider is pow2
2022-04-13T17:40:12 < jpa-> might not do so with -O0
2022-04-13T17:40:24 < kakium69> okay then I don't ditch that
2022-04-13T17:40:51 < kakium69> I can try in this internet compiler game
2022-04-13T17:44:39 < kakium69> interesting with -O0 a lot more of pushing and popping is happening
2022-04-13T17:46:06 < kakium69> but yeah the thing doesnt change if I switch between / and >>
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2022-04-13T17:48:22 < kakium69> wait I was looking at wrong thing
2022-04-13T17:49:29 < kakium69> yeah same thing
2022-04-13T17:50:39 < kakium69> it seems to ror one bit at a time
2022-04-13T17:51:13 < kakium69> because it's uint32_t you want one carry bit
2022-04-13T17:52:25 < kakium69> ah ror is one bit a time anyway
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2022-04-13T18:34:58 < karlp> hrm, ali express estimated May 7. looks like it's already arrived.
2022-04-13T18:35:26 < Xogium> hehe sooner than expected is always more fun
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2022-04-13T20:30:39 < qyx> karlp: hm yeah, I have to check
2022-04-13T20:30:50 < qyx> anyway, the coded phy claims only x2 range
2022-04-13T20:31:12 < qyx> I was quite surprised they were able to get 600 m range without it
2022-04-13T20:31:28 < karlp> antenna magic.
2022-04-13T20:32:00 < karlp> probably the same as thermal dissipation figures being quoted with ceramic pcbs and 1square inch per pad :)
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2022-04-13T20:49:36 < qyx> it is true I got 900 m with RFM69 at 0 dBm erp into a whip
2022-04-13T20:49:57 < qyx> but 2.4 gig is much more crowded
2022-04-13T20:50:59 < catphish> morning :)
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--- Day changed to huhti 14 2022
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2022-04-14T02:59:27 < mawk> there is both russian hate thread and ukrainian hate thread on 4chan
2022-04-14T02:59:29 < mawk> perfectly balanced website
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2022-04-14T03:12:38 < kakium69> mawk: and you can believe it's perfectly shilled to max
2022-04-14T03:13:15 < kakium69> don't mistake any political discusions as organic
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2022-04-14T12:18:59 < PaulFertser> Hello folks. My good friend from Ukraine is asking for help. The idea is to buy Motorola UHF "walkie-talkie" and accessories for them and get delivered to Poland for volunteers in UA. Details are at https://pastebin.com/YtZKGUSN , contact Maxim <glokaya@kuzdra.org>
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2022-04-14T13:27:12 < josuah> communication is key!
2022-04-14T13:32:05 < benishor> refreshing to see such a call for help from a russian guy, ftw
2022-04-14T13:35:06 < josuah> I'm not sure about pouring regions in conflict with weapons though
2022-04-14T13:35:38 < josuah> that puts fuel into the war engine
2022-04-14T13:35:41 < josuah> well, this times it's only talkies though
2022-04-14T13:36:13 < benishor> PaulFertser: there's no info regarding transfer. furthermore, how can we know money end up where described?
2022-04-14T13:38:05 < josuah> there are also intermmediates between honest and dishonest, such as purchasing goods with donation money and *sell* them to Poland
2022-04-14T13:38:59 < josuah> also, what happen to the talkies if the war comes to an end?
2022-04-14T13:43:46 < josuah> in total, that is 18850 EUR for the 50 talkies, say 20000 EUR including accessories
2022-04-14T13:44:32 < josuah> I'd be nice to have a little bit more of transparency than just a pastebin for 20k EUR innit? ;) but I guess that is why there is an email
2022-04-14T13:46:26 < josuah> a few legitimate attempts at logistics, and a tsunami of "Fund collection for Ukraine!" spam in your mailbox
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2022-04-14T13:46:31 < josuah> spam ruins everything!
2022-04-14T13:47:33 < josuah> it took me 3 years living in 11 square meter and buying nothing and working full time to collect 20k
2022-04-14T13:47:57 < josuah> PaulFertser: mind that this is what you ask to people to offer you for nothing
2022-04-14T13:48:03 < josuah> PaulFertser: but I admire your effort
2022-04-14T13:51:49 < PaulFertser> benishor: regarding Maxim, you can have my word, he's my friend, we met many times in real life.
2022-04-14T13:52:37 < PaulFertser> Finding a place to buy those radios would help too.
2022-04-14T13:53:20 < PaulFertser> And he says any amount will help, it doesn't need to be 50 pcs.
2022-04-14T13:58:27 < PaulFertser> benishor: do you want this pastebin signed with my personal GPG key or something?
2022-04-14T14:04:32 < benishor> PaulFertser: no. I was intending to donate some money but there's no info on how to do that
2022-04-14T14:09:44 < PaulFertser> benishor: he is available via that e-mail, and is working on arrange to get at least few radios for the civilian volunteers.
2022-04-14T14:10:22 < PaulFertser> btw, Ukraine authorities do not let their own men to leave the country even if they have double citizenship.
2022-04-14T14:15:02 < josuah> PaulFertser: what about offering to order the radios ourself and deliver them at a chosen address in Poland?
2022-04-14T14:15:32 < josuah> PaulFertser: then it is a 100% guarantee that the money is spent on radio equipment
2022-04-14T14:15:50 < josuah> PaulFertser: and it would help with collection further more
2022-04-14T14:16:11 < PaulFertser> josuah: yes, that's the idea. Apparently finding a good place to buy those is a challenge already, I'm not sure why, probably regulatory issues.
2022-04-14T14:16:55 < benishor> I will be happy to contribute with some money once the details have been settled
2022-04-14T14:17:35 < benishor> we have a lot of UA refugees in my city and we are taking care of them too
2022-04-14T14:17:56 < benishor> ordinary people shouldn't have to endure this kind of shit
2022-04-14T14:17:57 < PaulFertser> benishor: thank you that's a very essential part as well.
2022-04-14T14:18:20 < PaulFertser> benishor: I suggest you contact Maxim, he's the one gathering together the interested parties.
2022-04-14T14:18:40 < benishor> and russian people need to remember the rusophobia thing is a consequence of putin's actions, not something the world holds against them
2022-04-14T14:18:51 < benishor> PaulFertser: ok, I will contact him
2022-04-14T14:20:02 < benishor> I have this wet dream in which russia becomes a democratic country and putin is sent to the dustbin of history
2022-04-14T14:20:25 < benishor> and freely elected leaders actually do people's bidding
2022-04-14T14:22:08 < PaulFertser> benishor: you know navalny is probably not the best leader either. The majority of population needs to change, needs to become more educated and ready to take more responsibility. But that's unfortunately not happening. Russians are going to pay for the crimes...
2022-04-14T14:23:37 < benishor> unfortunately yes
2022-04-14T14:24:01 < benishor> people need to stop living in the past
2022-04-14T14:24:21 < benishor> and take their life in their hands
2022-04-14T14:24:49 < benishor> instead of being simple fatalist sheep
2022-04-14T14:28:52 < Xogium> for what its worth… I have russian friends, but even then, even if I had none, I'd still not dislike the russian folks based on just one man's doings
2022-04-14T14:29:34 < Xogium> that's totally dumb and I don't understand how people end up being that way
2022-04-14T14:31:02 < Xogium> like… I honestly don't understand
2022-04-14T14:35:33 < benishor> Xogium: problem is for example with russian expats, take those living in germany for instance who rallied and held meetings claiming they are vilified
2022-04-14T14:35:57 < benishor> and they do this while they still support the regime in russia
2022-04-14T14:36:24 < benishor> not really kosher. as in, if you love putin's russia so much, what are you doing abroad?
2022-04-14T14:36:58 < Xogium> but… why
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2022-04-14T14:38:20 < Xogium> and then you get all sort of restrictions that don't even make sense just because we have to be seen doing something… Canada firing hockey teams because they have russian players is justone of the ridiculous things
2022-04-14T14:38:38 < Xogium> *just one
2022-04-14T14:39:59 < benishor> yes, some things go to far. but it's in a totally different league than what ukrainians are having
2022-04-14T14:40:45 < Xogium> yes
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2022-04-14T14:45:20 < josuah> we need to love the russians
2022-04-14T14:45:34 < josuah> they are our heroes, and possibly the only ones who can take this war to an end
2022-04-14T14:45:46 < josuah> putin do not look like giving up any time soon
2022-04-14T14:46:10 < josuah> nor will the USA+Europe+more supply of weapons stop
2022-04-14T14:49:45 < josuah> hopefully the Russian people will reject Putin's strategy, and pressure him to calm the invasion down
2022-04-14T14:51:44 < benishor> I don't think it works like this with putin
2022-04-14T14:51:57 < benishor> it doesn't work like this with dictators in general
2022-04-14T14:52:14 < benishor> unfortunately there's only one way to put an end to their rule and everybody knows it
2022-04-14T14:52:26 < josuah> there will be a limit at some point, I am wondering which one it will be:
2022-04-14T14:52:35 < josuah> economy of Russia drained (good for USA btw)?
2022-04-14T14:53:14 < josuah> people of Russia stopping to support the government and strike? (unlikely, but what if will happen if you keep pushing and pushing like now?)
2022-04-14T14:53:27 < benishor> the high class won't feel the pain, it will still be the ordinary people who will endure
2022-04-14T14:53:37 < benishor> and they will just say they've had worse and roll with it
2022-04-14T14:53:47 < josuah> military resources of Russia coming short? (or NATO ones?)
2022-04-14T14:54:11 < josuah> benishor: yeah :( sad!
2022-04-14T14:54:23 < benishor> it was like that when our dictatorship fell too
2022-04-14T14:54:25 < benishor> (romania)
2022-04-14T14:54:36 < josuah> benishor: let's hope the conflicts target military infrastructures as much as possible
2022-04-14T14:54:43 < benishor> so many years of brainwashing made us have no clue as to what a democracy means
2022-04-14T14:55:08 < josuah> brainwashing looks more efficient than I thought!
2022-04-14T14:55:10 < benishor> and the transition to a decent lifestyle was painful
2022-04-14T14:55:29 < benishor> it is efficient because people are like sheep, afraid to change things or question
2022-04-14T14:55:54 < benishor> and it's only natural one has the tendency to cherry pick the things that sound good to him
2022-04-14T14:56:20 < josuah> and get oneself out of any trouble
2022-04-14T14:56:29 < benishor> yes
2022-04-14T14:56:44 < josuah> brainwashing and spreading FUD (Fear Uncertainity and Doubt) implicitly
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2022-04-14T14:57:24 < josuah> inducing to people "I do not want to know what happen if I oppose", yet without ever talking about opposition
2022-04-14T15:01:42 < benishor> I don't think they know the etymology of democracy
2022-04-14T15:02:10 < benishor> btw josuah, how are the political battles in france naw?
2022-04-14T15:02:22 < benishor> le pen seems to have unleashed the hounds
2022-04-14T15:10:52 < Xogium> I don't like her
2022-04-14T15:11:00 < Xogium> she's against imigration
2022-04-14T15:11:22 < Xogium> then again, that other one was even worse
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2022-04-14T15:57:12 < josuah> second round are often voting "against", since many parties, that one would have possibly voted for, are taken out of the course
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2022-04-14T17:53:54 < mawk> "connect all GND pins to ground" bs or not?
2022-04-14T17:53:56 < mawk> can I skip it
2022-04-14T17:54:08 < mawk> on a NB-IoT/LTE-M module
2022-04-14T17:56:42 < BrainDamage> absolutely not bs
2022-04-14T17:57:07 < BrainDamage> the multiple pins is needed to keep low inductance at high frequency
2022-04-14T17:57:45 < BrainDamage> if you skip it, depending on the layout the modem may not work, or have random glitches
2022-04-14T17:59:21 < mawk> hmm
2022-04-14T17:59:29 < mawk> why isn't there a corresponding number of vcc pins?
2022-04-14T18:00:53 < BrainDamage> depends on the internal layout
2022-04-14T18:01:24 < BrainDamage> the gnd path is likely more "windy" and therefore needs more external pins
2022-04-14T18:01:40 < mawk> I see
2022-04-14T18:01:46 < mawk> I connected most ground pads on the underside
2022-04-14T18:02:02 < mawk> then there are other ground pads but I suspect they are just placeholders for pins that are there on other models
2022-04-14T18:02:12 < mawk> I'll connect them just in case, if it's not too annoying
2022-04-14T18:02:23 < BrainDamage> connect as many as you can
2022-04-14T18:02:25 < BrainDamage> ideally all
2022-04-14T18:03:36 < BrainDamage> considering it's a RF modem, the gnd path is likely internally split between the digital and rf portions
2022-04-14T18:03:42 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-14T18:03:57 < mawk> the ground pins near the antenna pin is probably the most critical to connect
2022-04-14T18:04:27 < BrainDamage> the vdd line gets regulated, so the ripple is attenuated, but gnd bounce remains
2022-04-14T18:04:31 < mawk> there are 9 ground pins near the antenna pin
2022-04-14T18:04:39 < mawk> I see
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2022-04-14T19:14:30 < jpa-> mawk: for a module, they usually have internal capacitors; then it is enough to have enough GND because they just bypass VDD internally
2022-04-14T19:15:57 < jpa-> another important reason for having many GND pins is to prevent the module PCB and the main PCB forming an antenna, which would distort transmissions and also fail EMI tests
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2022-04-14T20:00:20 < bitmask> if you have a 1080 video thats the same size as a 2160 video, will the 4k one be lower quality?
2022-04-14T20:05:50 < jpa-> depends on bitrate
2022-04-14T20:06:02 < jpa-> if you encode 1080 video with crazy high bitrate, you are just carefully preserving the noise
2022-04-14T20:06:44 < jpa-> if you encode 4k video with too low bitrate, depending on the encoder it may blur it out more than downscaled video would have been, or the variations in quality in high vs. low motion scenes can be annoying
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2022-04-14T20:28:16 < Steffann> mr jpa- didnt you say your wonderful parkside hot glue gun with usb-c doesnt drip?
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2022-04-14T22:03:27 < jpa-> Steffann: i think i may have claimed so - does it drip?
2022-04-14T22:09:01 < Steffann> Yes sir jpa-
2022-04-14T22:11:57 < BrainDamage> it wouldn't take a lot of efforts to add a screw extruder to glue guns, and it'd stop them dripping like a runny nose
2022-04-14T22:19:01 < kakium69> hello early
2022-04-14T22:19:48 < Steffann> Hello love.
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2022-04-14T22:27:15 < Xogium> ugh okay this is OT but I gotta say it
2022-04-14T22:27:49 < Xogium> I *HATE* when you get some food delivery and your damn bevrage spills all over the paper bag
2022-04-14T22:28:25 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRI548QaGVc musics for steff
2022-04-14T22:28:54 < Xogium> it was litterally 5 seconds away from causing the bottom of the bag to tear out and everything would have spilled, if I hadn't been fast enough to put the bag into the sink
2022-04-14T22:31:52 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqMaahqjcrk this* steff
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2022-04-14T23:44:51 < bitmask> i hate the internet when it doesnt work
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--- Day changed pe huhti 15 2022
2022-04-15T00:08:56 < mawk> parkside is that the lidl brand Steffann ???
2022-04-15T00:09:24 < Steffann> Si señor
2022-04-15T00:12:30 < qyx> yes
2022-04-15T00:12:41 < qyx> b-grade bosch
2022-04-15T00:12:47 < qyx> sorry, c-grade
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2022-04-15T00:20:20 < catphish> kakium69: evening, you missed a day yesterday!
2022-04-15T00:25:06 < zyp> jpa-, «same size» implies same average bitrate
2022-04-15T00:25:40 < zyp> and yeah, you're right, I didn't read enough into your answer
2022-04-15T00:28:12 < zyp> I would generally expect same visual quality from two video files of the same size only differing in resolution, everything else being the same
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2022-04-15T01:14:08 < kakium69> parkside is damn good for the oneys
2022-04-15T01:14:11 < kakium69> moneys
2022-04-15T01:42:31 < Steffann> Workshop day catphish ?
2022-04-15T01:43:44 < catphish> Steffann: lol
2022-04-15T01:44:03 < catphish> also no, but yesterday was
2022-04-15T01:44:23 < qyx> karlp: which wb did you use? the dual core one with m+ radio?
2022-04-15T01:45:02 < qyx> idk what's the wb family naming
2022-04-15T01:45:05 < catphish> yesterday i finished making holed in my battery box and designed a resistor holder https://imgur.com/a/aEvwJZf
2022-04-15T01:45:12 < qyx> stm32wb10 look good and available
2022-04-15T01:46:00 < catphish> also practised some welding on scrap
2022-04-15T01:46:49 < karlp> qyx: I used a 55, because a) that's what was on the nucleo and b) super future proof for 802.15.4 derivatives, plus usb and shit
2022-04-15T01:47:04 < karlp> but I would likely have switched to one of the smaller ones once the app was done to cost down.
2022-04-15T01:47:37 < karlp> they're all dual core with radio on separate on, difference is whether you can do multiprotocol at the same time or not, usb, and then normal flash/ram shits
2022-04-15T01:48:01 < qyx> k then, no usb needed nor multiprotocol shit
2022-04-15T01:48:38 < qyx> I'll check the integrated passive thing and probably make a board with it
2022-04-15T01:52:12 < karlp> hrm, apollo 440, solid choices
2022-04-15T01:52:45 < karlp> yeah, he 10/15 is probably enough for you then?
2022-04-15T01:53:22 < karlp> wb55 is "epensive" compard to like the bluetooth only efr32bg22, but pretty much on par compared to the efr32mg22, which is the multiprotocol one...
2022-04-15T01:53:56 < karlp> getting on bord the consumer electroncs btle is winning train?
2022-04-15T01:53:59 < karlp> alllllll aboard!
2022-04-15T01:54:21 < karlp> I thought this iamge summed up teh diffs well enough: https://www.st.com/content/ccc/fragment/multimedia/image/picture/group2/6e/52/1a/a2/b2/6c/4c/f3/SS1961_STM32WB_table/files/ss1961_table-WB.png/_jcr_content/translations/en.ss1961_table-WB.png
2022-04-15T01:54:59 < karlp> hrm, doesn't really do 50 vs 30 very well Iguess
2022-04-15T01:55:54 < karlp> ah, the bigger image lower down this page, https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32wb-series.html is good enough...
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2022-04-15T01:56:46 < qyx> no, not really
2022-04-15T01:56:59 < karlp> value line (x0, instead of x5) means no PA, no quadspi, no usb, no LCD, and only -10-85C
2022-04-15T01:57:06 < qyx> just lora is a bit pricey for gardening stuff
2022-04-15T01:57:16 < karlp> "serious" 15,35,55 have allthat.
2022-04-15T01:57:51 < karlp> but https://octopart.com/search?q=stm32wb10¤cy=USD&specs=0 in stock at mouser, 3k units....
2022-04-15T01:57:53 < qyx> if the mesh thing works and I can do a node on openwrt, I am happy with ble
2022-04-15T01:58:01 < karlp> cheaper than buying an l4 ;)
2022-04-15T01:58:14 < karlp> yeah, I'm not making _any_ promises on mesh, never used it sorry
2022-04-15T01:58:14 < qyx> yeah but no serious periphjerals
2022-04-15T01:58:19 < qyx> compared to l4
2022-04-15T01:58:34 < karlp> sure, espeically on the wb10.
2022-04-15T01:58:37 < karlp> if you want wb10,
2022-04-15T01:59:03 < karlp> you should be looking at: ch582 and ch581 ;)
2022-04-15T01:59:27 < qyx> basically all I want is a few ADC channels for temp, i2c for ligjht and soil capsensing, pwm for leds, thats abnout all
2022-04-15T02:00:02 < qyx> amd spv1050 for energy harvesting
2022-04-15T02:00:23 < karlp> or https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontroller-Units-MCUs-MPUs-SOCs_WCH-Jiangsu-Qin-Heng-CH579F_C481975.html
2022-04-15T02:00:33 < qyx> the other possibility is esp32-c3
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2022-04-15T02:00:39 < karlp> what's wrong with c3?
2022-04-15T02:00:45 < karlp> or even just esp32 plain?
2022-04-15T02:00:51 < karlp> you'r emains powered right?
2022-04-15T02:00:57 < qyx> nope
2022-04-15T02:01:00 < karlp> oh,
2022-04-15T02:01:07 < qyx> I didn't try esp32-c3 yet
2022-04-15T02:01:14 < qyx> I bought some thoughj
2022-04-15T02:01:26 < karlp> my preliminary pretty much said "hrmrrm, highly unlikely" for any of the esp32s for any btle only, low power
2022-04-15T02:01:34 < karlp> but I didn't go further with it
2022-04-15T02:01:55 < karlp> onyl so manyhours in the day and only so many interns to dedicate to the task..... (that numbeerbeing, unfortunately, zero)
2022-04-15T02:02:08 < qyx> heh
2022-04-15T02:02:28 < karlp> calmet just shipped our three phase unit though, yay
2022-04-15T02:02:44 < karlp> still, holidays. not meant to be digging up this sort of shit from my brane.
2022-04-15T02:03:07 < karlp> just finished catching up on latest star wars shit, very mediocre, but done now
2022-04-15T02:03:16 < karlp> hot cross buns baked, half eaten.
2022-04-15T02:05:18 < karlp> oh, ch579f above is "boring old cortex-m"
2022-04-15T02:06:45 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontroller-Units-MCUs-MPUs-SOCs_WCH-Jiangsu-Qin-Heng-CH582M_C2920766.html is cheaper because no arm license.... or something...
2022-04-15T02:07:08 < karlp> (no real world experience beside staring at them on my desk though, WB is guaranteed approved)
2022-04-15T02:16:42 < karlp> https://twitter.com/travisgoodspeed/status/1514673842555392004 for text people too
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2022-04-15T12:53:10 < kakium69> Steffann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqMaahqjcrk encore
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2022-04-15T13:07:46 < qyx> I am quite reluctant to use a 2x2 mm super cool mosfet with a SO-8 switcher
2022-04-15T13:08:03 < qyx> a D2PAK fits somewhat better
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2022-04-15T17:08:16 < fenugrec> Nice : pinout for TL431 is not the same as TLV431. Guess how I found out
2022-04-15T17:21:50 < jpa-> looks same to me
2022-04-15T17:21:57 < jpa-> TL432 is different
2022-04-15T17:22:43 < jpa-> eh
2022-04-15T17:23:01 < jpa-> except in some packages TLV431 matches TL432 and not TL431 :)
2022-04-15T17:23:03 < jpa-> nice trap
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2022-04-15T18:21:59 < fenugrec> exactly
2022-04-15T18:22:10 < fenugrec> both DBZ suffix (from TI). what were they thinking
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2022-04-15T19:05:00 < Steffann> Thinking.... fenugrec ?
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2022-04-15T19:13:45 < fenugrec> sometimes I have these naive ideas
2022-04-15T19:14:42 < jpa-> probably they got confused by their own TL431/2 datasheet
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2022-04-15T20:05:48 < karlp> DBZ is a package, not a pinout, git gud!
2022-04-15T20:16:45 < fenugrec> silly me
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2022-04-15T21:17:57 < Mangy_Dog> im having a really strange problem. Im trying to pass data from the flash to the graphics chip. Theyre on the same SPI line. Graphics chip uses Mode0 FLash uses Mode3. Even though I am switching between the two different modes when i talk to each hardware, it seems to cause the graphics chip to crash.
2022-04-15T21:18:16 < Mangy_Dog> Am i missing something when jumping between spi hardware?
2022-04-15T21:18:56 < Mangy_Dog> ive been trying to figgure this out ALLLLLL day
2022-04-15T21:23:10 < fenugrec> Mangy_Dog, can't help you, but if changing modes, I would look for spurious edges / pulses on CS or CLK ?
2022-04-15T21:23:23 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2022-04-15T21:23:32 < fenugrec> i.e. if you're changing polarity
2022-04-15T21:24:59 < fenugrec> or if you have a spare gpio, make it toggle on mode change, use that to trigger logic analyzer on SPI, and see what's going on
2022-04-15T21:25:05 < Mangy_Dog> checking
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2022-04-15T22:07:15 < kakium69> friday night is code night
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2022-04-15T22:11:06 < Steffann> You made 🧠damage quit with that kakium69
2022-04-15T22:11:54 < kakium69> how did you like the musics I picked for you steff?
2022-04-15T22:13:27 < Steffann> It wasn't too bad but also not "🤯"
2022-04-15T22:14:08 < kakium69> tru
2022-04-15T22:15:34 < Steffann> !fals
2022-04-15T22:18:18 < kakium69> !0
2022-04-15T22:19:05 < kakium69> roads looked dry enough for moped riding today
2022-04-15T22:19:27 < kakium69> still 50cm snow but road is dry
2022-04-15T22:20:33 < kakium69> sand on dust on road especially on intersections is ofc subideal
2022-04-15T22:20:36 < Steffann> Do they use salt there or just sand?
2022-04-15T22:20:39 < kakium69> *sand and dust
2022-04-15T22:21:17 < kakium69> sand+salt mix when weather is moist around 0C
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2022-04-15T22:23:27 < kakium69> also summer speed limits
2022-04-15T22:24:07 < kakium69> highway is back to 120kmh
2022-04-15T22:26:38 < Steffann> A better speed to crash with
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2022-04-15T22:34:32 < kakium69> how do you crash on highway anyway?
2022-04-15T22:37:38 < Steffann> By stupidity of you or stupidity of others, usuallt
2022-04-15T22:37:39 < Steffann> Y
2022-04-15T22:39:33 < kakium69> usually there is plenty of room and cognitive loading is rather light
2022-04-15T22:40:06 < kakium69> I don't usually go into peak rush traffic
2022-04-15T22:40:50 < kakium69> once I went to rush traffic with mopped it was not fun
2022-04-15T22:41:24 < Steffann> Where you live? So 2 cars instead of 1? 😋
2022-04-15T22:41:39 < kakium69> well in nearby city(50km)
2022-04-15T22:42:01 < kakium69> had to squeesh in
2022-04-15T22:42:17 < kakium69> between bumpers
2022-04-15T22:49:30 < Steffann> That's why you go by moped right?
2022-04-15T22:49:45 < kakium69> looked back to join left line and when I looked ahead I missed rear of van in front of me by half meter or so
2022-04-15T22:51:41 < kakium69> PaulFertser commute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgiAXlS8J3k
2022-04-15T22:52:05 < kakium69> PaulFertser's
2022-04-15T23:02:35 < kakium69> he doesn't need to look at mirrors or turn head to see if line is free
2022-04-15T23:03:59 < kakium69> if you are locked between bumpers you cannot ride like that
2022-04-15T23:07:20 < kakium69> generally if you respect rules you cannot ride like that :p
2022-04-15T23:09:55 < kakium69> can I use constexprs in class constructor?
2022-04-15T23:10:37 < Steffann> That guy just wants to die, kakium69
2022-04-15T23:10:54 < kakium69> Steffann: that guy is long dead I bet
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2022-04-15T23:22:55 < qyx> kakium69: easily, last week I saw 4 crashes on a 200 km trip
2022-04-15T23:23:30 < qyx> it is enough to rain a bit and those audi and bmw racers are offroad
2022-04-15T23:23:41 < qyx> it was not even freezing, 15 °C
2022-04-15T23:26:13 < kakium69> it's the heat
2022-04-15T23:26:26 < kakium69> makes them go crazy
2022-04-15T23:29:58 < kakium69> that +15C and sun shining
2022-04-15T23:32:18 < PaulFertser> kakium69: there was one guy in moscow shooting videos like that when he was 15 y.o. When he turned 16 y.o. he got in a stupid accident which left his left hand uncontrollable other that the fingers. So he has to use his right hand to put his left on the handlebar to grab the clutch.
2022-04-15T23:32:48 < kakium69> crazy fate
2022-04-15T23:33:07 < kakium69> become disabled but still able to pull clutch
2022-04-15T23:33:13 < PaulFertser> He still worked in a "moto taxi" with that disability :)
2022-04-15T23:33:25 < kakium69> stuff is meant to be
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2022-04-15T23:40:18 < kakium69> it was like god saw kid was way stupid but kid was meant to ride
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2022-04-15T23:46:23 < Steffann> Welcome back bitmask
2022-04-15T23:46:41 < kakium69> PaulFertser: how is works?
2022-04-15T23:46:56 < bitmask> thanks, cable guy left and everything seems good but then the internets went out again, turns out MOCA disabled itself for some reason...
2022-04-15T23:47:29 < kakium69> moca?
2022-04-15T23:47:41 < bitmask> multimedia over coaxial
2022-04-15T23:47:54 < PaulFertser> kakium69: the chinese companies say they can provide chips and even proxy support for some software. So surprilingly but it kinda workarounds EU and US sanctions.
2022-04-15T23:48:03 < bitmask> i use it to get wired internet connection upstairs because they have the wifi downstairs and it doesnt reach my room
2022-04-15T23:48:18 < bitmask> so i have a moca adapter to my own router for upstairs wifi
2022-04-15T23:49:45 < kakium69> PaulFertser: chips meaning generally?
2022-04-15T23:49:59 < kakium69> stuff that mouser digikey sells?
2022-04-15T23:51:17 < kakium69> or something more restricted?
2022-04-15T23:52:22 < PaulFertser> kakium69: something more rare, needed to build Intel Xeon motherboards.
2022-04-15T23:52:42 < kakium69> hmm
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--- Day changed la huhti 16 2022
2022-04-16T00:15:41 < kakium69> you are mother board designer PaulFertser?
2022-04-16T00:17:51 < kakium69> intel processor datasheets are fun
2022-04-16T00:18:15 < kakium69> and the reference manual
2022-04-16T00:18:45 < kakium69> page counts in tens of thousands of pages
2022-04-16T00:21:02 < PaulFertser> kakium69: I help with motherboards made following open compute project documents, yes.
2022-04-16T00:21:50 < PaulFertser> kakium69: intel is a horrible company, and their documentation is too. I'm trying to only get involved with the BMC part which is not intel-specific.
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2022-04-16T00:30:00 < fenugrec> Perfect. Just fixed bug #5 on this pcb and every time I fix something, it's worse overall
2022-04-16T00:32:59 < kakium69> snakes snake?
2022-04-16T00:33:42 < kakium69> fenugrec: pics?
2022-04-16T00:35:36 < fenugrec> kakium no pics. It's embarassing enough as it is
2022-04-16T00:36:44 < kakium69> its part of the process
2022-04-16T00:37:05 < qyx> a recent pic for kakium69 https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AfBv9/Screenshot_2022-04-15_23-36-42.png
2022-04-16T00:37:42 < kakium69> cool
2022-04-16T00:38:00 < kakium69> visually CANL and CANH stick to eye
2022-04-16T00:38:35 < kakium69> make them mirror across y-axis
2022-04-16T00:38:54 < kakium69> symmetrically one on one side of axis
2022-04-16T00:39:14 < kakium69> also too close to each other
2022-04-16T00:41:00 < kakium69> not on pcb capblty level but when you solder wires that is not very zen
2022-04-16T00:41:35 < kakium69> what is it?
2022-04-16T00:45:59 < kakium69> hmm those fill angles must be fun :p
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2022-04-16T01:05:49 < kakium69> is there such thing in c++ that... nevermind
2022-04-16T01:06:12 < kakium69> "auto" does it
2022-04-16T01:39:53 < bitmask> cant believe im setting my download limit to 16MB/s for the turtle speed, internet speed is surpassing cost of hard drives
2022-04-16T01:40:19 < bitmask> my connection seems to be 250-300 mbit
2022-04-16T01:42:02 < bitmask> i remember when 10 mbit was amazing
2022-04-16T01:42:10 < kakium69> you could use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
2022-04-16T01:42:21 < bitmask> heh
2022-04-16T01:47:48 < fenugrec> still on 5Mb here. Next step up is 2x price...
2022-04-16T01:51:22 < qyx> still on a 10 mbit/s LTE
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2022-04-16T01:59:39 < bitmask> you dont have 'cable' just cellular?
2022-04-16T02:01:58 < qyx> no, offgrid, offinternet, offwater
2022-04-16T02:43:28 < englishman> jeez fenugrec really?
2022-04-16T02:44:01 < englishman> i can’t even get less than 10
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2022-04-16T03:26:16 < fenugrec> that's right you can't. But I'm on an old plan
2022-04-16T03:28:47 < fenugrec> price per Mb havesn't changed much in 7-8 years
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2022-04-16T05:37:08 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a driver (app/python/script?) for using I2C bootloader on STM32L0 or STM32G0 ?
2022-04-16T06:30:51 < englishman> fenugrec: i have 120/20 for $40 at the moment
2022-04-16T06:31:12 < englishman> by scamming/scouring deals
2022-04-16T06:31:28 < englishman> but yeah 10/1.5 goes for 39 right now
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2022-04-16T13:29:22 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: isn't it compatible with https://sourceforge.net/p/stm32flash/code/ci/master/tree/ ?
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2022-04-16T19:20:25 < catphish_> imagine for a moment that a crazy man wanted a USB (or maybe ethernet) connected 50MSPS ADC, what options might he explore?
2022-04-16T19:29:27 < emeryth> analog discovery pro?
2022-04-16T19:32:51 < catphish_> i was thinking a bit more DIY
2022-04-16T19:32:59 < catphish_> components rather than products
2022-04-16T19:33:59 < catphish_> i actually *have* a device that does this, but there are some features it has that i don't need, and some i need that it doesn't have, so idly wondering how possible it would be to build such a thing
2022-04-16T19:37:37 < emeryth> I guess the traditional way is cypress usb chip + fpga + adc
2022-04-16T19:38:15 < qyx> maybe a FTDI MPSSE chip with a 8bit ADC
2022-04-16T19:38:25 < qyx> but idk if 50 Msps is achievable
2022-04-16T19:52:42 < zyp> USB HS tops out at 53 MB/s theoretical, fairly hard to hit in practice, so you'll want USB3 for sure
2022-04-16T19:53:26 < zyp> alternatively gigabit ethernet
2022-04-16T19:54:31 < zyp> if you wanna hack up something cheap, maybe grab a colorlight i5 and make a baseboard with an ethernet jack and an ADC
2022-04-16T19:58:53 < catphish_> yeah USB 3 or gigabit ethernet seem like the sensible choice
2022-04-16T19:59:13 < catphish_> i'm already hacking up what i need using a USRP N200
2022-04-16T19:59:48 < catphish_> but i was intrigued to know if one could build something simpler
2022-04-16T20:02:38 < zyp> colorlight i5 is essentially a fpga + dual gigabit ethernet phys in a module form factor
2022-04-16T20:02:52 < zyp> cheap chinese off the shelf product
2022-04-16T20:06:07 < catphish_> that's cool, i'll have a look, just needs the ADC/DAC
2022-04-16T20:08:44 < zyp> yeah, just plop down a so-dimm socket, feed it 5V, add the ethernet jack and whatever IO you want
2022-04-16T20:15:09 < qyx> I would try twente SDR too
2022-04-16T20:15:16 < qyx> it is a spartan3 + gigabit ethernet + ADC
2022-04-16T20:23:17 < catphish_> right now i'm working out how to utilize the GPIO in the SDR i have on hand, it should serve my purposes
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2022-04-16T20:39:20 < Mangy_Dog> https://hackaday.io/project/184711-mainframe-compute-observator/log/205025-what-a-nightmare
2022-04-16T20:45:21 < Steffann> lol Mangy_Dog
2022-04-16T20:45:22 < Steffann> oops
2022-04-16T20:45:31 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2022-04-16T20:51:27 < Steffann> shit happens
2022-04-16T21:11:41 < bitmask> .
2022-04-16T21:45:57 < catphish> no it doesn't!
2022-04-16T21:53:28 < Steffann> ok
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2022-04-16T22:25:30 < zyp> karlp, I just rebased/merged some laks changes that I did for my last work project, figuring I should grab your latest stuff as well while I'm at it
2022-04-16T22:26:17 < zyp> I see you've got a couple of branches with «ch58x» being the latest and on top of anything else; is there anything in there I should consider not merging?
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2022-04-16T22:47:41 < zyp> karlp, I merged everything in top3 and gd32v, was a clean rebase on top of my changes
2022-04-16T22:48:43 < zyp> we need to do something more clever about the uart write_blocking() thing eventually, to account for ISR/TDR vs SR/DR register naming
2022-04-16T22:49:53 < zyp> i.e. write_blocking() only works on platforms with UART v2, but it doesn't error on v1 unless you try actually calling it, so no big deal
2022-04-16T22:52:10 < zyp> as for the ch58x branch, it looks reasonable enough, but I want to play a bit with it before merging
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2022-04-16T23:35:57 < kakium69> night pump
2022-04-16T23:41:16 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17EJk1X-DDn9_cvvuK1Fo5IU8gk6t7EH4/view?usp=sharing played a loud song of summer evening with yamaha today
2022-04-16T23:53:13 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTrXIlB1RbA musics
--- Day changed su huhti 17 2022
2022-04-17T00:10:37 < kakium69> unban lurenC
2022-04-17T00:24:49 < kakium69> catphish: awake?
2022-04-17T00:25:00 < catphish> yes
2022-04-17T00:25:09 < kakium69> :o
2022-04-17T00:25:12 < catphish> nice bike
2022-04-17T00:25:41 < kakium69> has given me zero troubles
2022-04-17T00:25:53 < catphish> also, where is this place you live, it looks like a remote nowhere that i'd enjoy
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2022-04-17T00:31:16 < kakium69> Kuopio
2022-04-17T00:31:40 < kakium69> not the city but the general area
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2022-04-17T00:52:12 < kakium69> catphish: how is battery box?
2022-04-17T01:00:44 < catphish> kakium69: slow! this is what i did last week: https://imgur.com/a/aEvwJZf
2022-04-17T01:01:00 < catphish> i'm waiting for my copper strip bus bar to arrive
2022-04-17T01:01:32 < catphish> once that arrives, i *think* i can complete the assembly
2022-04-17T01:01:38 < fenugrec> PLA resistor clamp ? it's not going to dissipate any meaningful heat ?
2022-04-17T01:01:55 < fenugrec> still think you should've gone with alu body power resistors P)
2022-04-17T01:02:01 < kakium69> it shouldn't
2022-04-17T01:02:05 < kakium69> it could
2022-04-17T01:02:23 < kakium69> it charges inverter caps
2022-04-17T01:04:31 < catphish> kakium69: it's PETG, and no, the resistor is not expected to dissipate noticeable heat
2022-04-17T01:04:52 < catphish> yeah, it just charges caps, if it dissipates heat, something has gone wrong
2022-04-17T01:05:31 < fenugrec> if something goes wrong and it heats, melts plastic and shorts metal frame, probably even more wrong
2022-04-17T01:06:36 < catphish> fenugrec: quite.
2022-04-17T01:10:42 < kakium69> catphish: interested about summer vacay?
2022-04-17T01:10:42 < kakium69> city(note. in july): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1MTZL-JeFs
2022-04-17T01:10:43 < kakium69> Kallavesi(inland water area with islands) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7trMszSAppg
2022-04-17T01:10:43 < kakium69> MTB competition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N4SMDB-fG0
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2022-04-17T01:30:25 < catphish> kakium69: i'll have a look :)
2022-04-17T01:35:32 < catphish> i like the islands
2022-04-17T01:43:36 < kakium69> you can freely camp on such islands without asking permission from anybody
2022-04-17T01:45:25 < kakium69> ofc there are cabins too
2022-04-17T01:47:22 < zyp> karlp, I tried something more clever: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=2e31f5e
2022-04-17T01:48:17 < zyp> style and stuff might change later, but this is pretty promising
2022-04-17T02:36:09 < zyp> for minor differences it's actually easier to just use constexpr if: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=86e8d74
2022-04-17T02:36:33 < zyp> also, I'm dumb
2022-04-17T02:37:15 < zyp> fixed: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=86e8d74
2022-04-17T02:37:34 < zyp> fixed: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=365c0dd *
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2022-04-17T02:50:44 < catphish> kakium69: awesome
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2022-04-17T06:22:18 < rustytaco> can stm32f401ccu do multiple virtual com ports?
2022-04-17T06:33:46 < ColdKeyboard> What's the delio with STM32G0xx using uint64_t for data in HAL_FLASH_Program?
2022-04-17T06:34:06 < ColdKeyboard> Don't F0, L0 and others use uint32_t?
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2022-04-17T13:18:52 < zyp> rustytaco, according to the manual the usb core only has three endpoint pairs in addition to ep0, and you need two per port for ACM
2022-04-17T13:19:52 < zyp> ACM needs one pair for data tx/rx, plus an additional IN endpoint for OOB signalling
2022-04-17T13:20:04 < zyp> although the latter is rarely actually used
2022-04-17T13:21:02 < zyp> you might be able to omit the latter, but I'm not sure the host drivers will accept that, they used to refuse before
2022-04-17T13:22:49 < zyp> or you might be able to use a nonexistent endpoint number for the latter, but the host might see that as an error and refuse it
2022-04-17T13:23:33 < zyp> if you can get around it, you can have up to three ports, using all three pairs for actual tx/rx
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2022-04-17T13:54:09 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: depends on the flash width
2022-04-17T13:54:24 < qyx> you are programming the whole flash-sized word at once
2022-04-17T13:54:33 < qyx> also depends if ECC is involved or not
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2022-04-17T14:48:56 < kakium69> how does visual studio login to my WSL?
2022-04-17T14:49:05 < kakium69> I never gave it my credentials
2022-04-17T14:49:27 < kakium69> I mean it's nice and how it should be
2022-04-17T14:49:34 < kakium69> but how it does it?
2022-04-17T14:49:59 < kakium69> WSL has some launch mode where it just skips logins?
2022-04-17T14:50:44 < kakium69> ah nvm... I launched wsl debian and it doesn't have login :D
2022-04-17T15:09:09 < rustytaco> zyp: hmm all i really need is a logging output, apart from the bi directional port i'll use for computer control of the radio
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2022-04-17T16:51:25 < kakium69> c++ pros
2022-04-17T16:51:37 < kakium69> I have const struct in my class to configure stuffs
2022-04-17T16:51:56 < kakium69> some of values are used only compile time
2022-04-17T16:53:51 < kakium69> I assume that inline methods with ie. "if(constants.constant)" will be compiled to asm without branching
2022-04-17T16:53:56 < kakium69> just do stuff or dont
2022-04-17T16:54:58 < kakium69> so can I save space somehow that the constants that will only result in constant folding are not stored anywhere?
2022-04-17T17:00:36 < Steffann> what about... test it?
2022-04-17T17:01:42 < kakium69> could compiler omit unused parts of struct?
2022-04-17T17:01:48 < kakium69> without asking
2022-04-17T17:01:52 < kakium69> I don't think so
2022-04-17T17:08:00 < kakium69> c++101
2022-04-17T17:19:54 < kakium69> actually I don't know if the whole struct is needed at all to be stored
2022-04-17T17:23:28 < kakium69> Steffann: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf_ieWnu-SE
2022-04-17T17:23:32 < Steffann> Time for some 12 years back in time kakium69: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXqPYte8tvc
2022-04-17T17:23:48 < kakium69> were I here 12 years back?
2022-04-17T17:23:48 < Steffann> oh yours is even further
2022-04-17T17:24:16 < kakium69> I was here like.. 2013 2014 maybe
2022-04-17T17:24:43 < Steffann> I dont remember and since freenode died i cannot check it
2022-04-17T17:25:33 < Steffann> oh jpa logs might contain the info, but you had some other nick before kakium69
2022-04-17T17:25:34 < kakium69> your link is kinda of youtube timemachine.. stuff like that was frontpage
2022-04-17T17:25:41 < Steffann> oh kakimir
2022-04-17T17:26:20 < Steffann> or kakeman
2022-04-17T17:26:25 < kakium69> exact yer dosn't matter
2022-04-17T17:26:51 < Steffann> 2014 :P
2022-04-17T17:27:54 < Steffann> lol at first thing jpa- had to read when he joined. Apparently nothing changed since 2011: http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/freenode/2011-08.log
2022-04-17T17:28:59 < kakium69> offtopic since the begin
2022-04-17T17:31:31 < kakium69> is dekar ded?
2022-04-17T17:31:37 < Steffann> unlikely
2022-04-17T17:33:06 < Steffann> https://github.com/EliasOenal/TNT he was alive 6 days ago :P
2022-04-17T17:33:30 < kakium69> why he not here?
2022-04-17T17:34:20 < Steffann> probably busy porting games to his nintendo switch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3rz8e2eVgQ
2022-04-17T17:35:06 < kakium69> nice
2022-04-17T17:37:02 < fenugrec> cmdr keen... wow haven't heard those sound effects in a long time
2022-04-17T17:37:28 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_rzYnXEQlE some dude casually doubles mario64 framerates
2022-04-17T17:39:14 < kakium69> in short: half of the code and variables need to go, avoid unwinding loops, render all instances of same object at same time etc.
2022-04-17T17:39:49 < kakium69> and mario64 was apparently build with -DDEBUG
2022-04-17T17:41:49 < kakium69> where did he get the source code though?
2022-04-17T17:44:23 < bitmask> triples*
2022-04-17T17:47:03 < kakium69> somebody casually reversed that game?
2022-04-17T17:47:18 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-17T17:48:41 < kakium69> wb catphish
2022-04-17T17:49:27 < catphish> olla
2022-04-17T17:49:50 < bitmask> wasnt there a nintendo hack some years ago and people got source codes for a bunch of games as well as other internal documents? i might be lying
2022-04-17T17:51:42 < kakium69> ah
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2022-04-17T18:10:36 < catphish> i don't know why people still have that problem, it's so easy to protect against
2022-04-17T18:10:59 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-17T18:11:27 < catphish> just put the code public on github, if it's open source, people getting the code isn't a problem
2022-04-17T18:17:36 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-17T18:18:04 < kakium69> it's nintendo
2022-04-17T18:18:26 < kakium69> if you even draw something looking like mario they will hunt you down
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2022-04-17T19:15:29 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryt-iyf9b3M earth is being imaged once a day now
2022-04-17T19:15:38 < kakium69> the whole of it
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2022-04-17T19:19:55 < catphish> kakium69: can they roll back to a previous image if something goes wrong?
2022-04-17T19:20:10 < kakium69> no
2022-04-17T19:30:44 < jpa-> catphish: it's a docker image, they can just rebuild it
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2022-04-17T20:08:34 < fenugrec> Excellent design : https://ibb.co/PDH88r2 absolutely 0 chance of the fuses ever shorting each other
2022-04-17T20:14:31 < Steffann> Looks like someone wanted to use a proper holder, but someone else wanted to go cheap
2022-04-17T20:14:49 < fenugrec> PCB guy said "well can we at least drill the holes for a holder... in case"
2022-04-17T20:14:58 < qyx> and someone else applied a mild G-shock
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2022-04-17T20:40:05 < rustytaco> https://istabpeople.com/ham/crappyradio001.jpg
2022-04-17T20:40:14 < rustytaco> Little stm32f401 is doing well ;)
2022-04-17T20:51:05 < Steffann> Dont stab people.
2022-04-17T20:58:38 < qyx> what's that thing
2022-04-17T21:00:03 < kakium69> some sort of dialing system for ham radio
2022-04-17T21:17:36 < rustytaco> qyx: It's half of a radio ^.^
2022-04-17T21:18:21 < rustytaco> Steffann: I stab people, 4 or 5 of them every day :P
2022-04-17T21:19:23 < rustytaco> qyx: it is si5351a frequency synthesizer (3 channels), stm32f401ccu for brains, bme280 temp/baro/humid sensor for interior climate of the box, and some space to add the analog bits.. Just barely enough hopefully
2022-04-17T21:20:21 < rustytaco> this section is the receiver, we still wait for ad9854 to arrive for transmitter synthesizer ;(
2022-04-17T21:34:13 < qyx> is it for a HF band?
2022-04-17T21:34:32 < qyx> 7.something on the LCD is the frequency?
2022-04-17T21:34:38 < qyx> do you have any schematic?
2022-04-17T22:00:46 < rustytaco> 160m-6m is my plan for RX on it, TX will be dealt with by the ad9854 bits whenever they show up and GNU radio
2022-04-17T22:01:18 < rustytaco> No schematic, its just cobbled up as i go, will try to document it once experiments are done, but for now, i have to more components by mail
2022-04-17T22:01:45 < rustytaco> everything is i2c so simple enough connections there; the analog side, will suck :)
2022-04-17T22:17:44 < qyx> is it a direct IQ downconversion?
2022-04-17T22:17:52 < qyx> the Tayloe thing?
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2022-04-17T23:31:06 < rustytaco> qyx: No this bit is going to be a double conversion receiver. with IF at 45mhz, as thats what i've so far been able to scavenge enough parts to build ^>^
2022-04-17T23:32:01 < rustytaco> once i get decent sound card, ill play with downconverting it to 12khz and doing direct sampling with that
2022-04-17T23:54:33 < catphish> spent the day today pondering on my STM32 tesla inverter controller
2022-04-17T23:55:11 < catphish> i had a lot of concerns about my implementation, but I'm now thinking it might actually work :)
2022-04-17T23:56:36 < rustytaco> catphish: my stm32 is starting to identify as a radio :P
2022-04-17T23:57:04 < catphish> rustytaco: now who's stalking who
2022-04-17T23:57:30 < rustytaco> i've been here a few a few weeks now :P
2022-04-17T23:58:12 < catphish> rustytaco: radio is only a fairly minor side hobby of mine, my main project right now is building an EV :)
2022-04-17T23:58:52 < catphish> and my dayjob (which i don't have right now) is server software and networking :)
--- Day changed ma huhti 18 2022
2022-04-18T00:00:56 < Steffann> catphish is still retired?
2022-04-18T00:01:16 < Steffann> I want to retire too
2022-04-18T00:01:21 < Steffann> Asap
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2022-04-18T00:01:30 < rustytaco> im gonna rage quit one of these days
2022-04-18T00:02:31 < catphish> Steffann: i'm planning to remain a retard until October 2022, I'm hoping the EV will be finished by then, at which point i will look to either commence a new commercial product, or start contracting from home
2022-04-18T00:05:49 < Steffanx> Ah nice
2022-04-18T00:20:30 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/965361021617311794/unknown.png This has taken me from 10 second load times down to 2 seconds..... still not quite as fast as SD card loading... But its a useable speed now. Im sure there must be a faster way to do this.
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2022-04-18T00:51:06 < Steffanx> What was it before this Mangy_Dog ?
2022-04-18T00:51:28 < Mangy_Dog> 10 seconds
2022-04-18T00:51:39 < Steffanx> A screenshot of code, is that you leeloominai?
2022-04-18T00:51:54 < Steffanx> I meant the code, and why it was so slow
2022-04-18T00:52:52 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2022-04-18T00:52:56 < Mangy_Dog> the memset method
2022-04-18T00:53:12 < Mangy_Dog> that the programmers guide for the chip suggests using that
2022-04-18T00:53:20 < Mangy_Dog> was really slow at passing data
2022-04-18T00:53:34 < Steffanx> Idk what that is.
2022-04-18T00:53:48 < Mangy_Dog> its ok youd need to read the datasheet :D
2022-04-18T00:54:08 < Mangy_Dog> This calling x80 before streaming data.... isnt mentioned in the datasheet :/
2022-04-18T00:54:17 < Mangy_Dog> but it is in the library bridgetek made for the pic micro :p
2022-04-18T00:54:29 < Mangy_Dog> which i took tested then stripped right down to this bare bones way
2022-04-18T00:54:30 < Mangy_Dog> also
2022-04-18T00:54:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/965369174576754708/unknown.png
2022-04-18T00:54:40 < Mangy_Dog> seems a little tiny bit faster
2022-04-18T00:54:58 < Mangy_Dog> putting it into a buffer first
2022-04-18T00:55:02 < Steffanx> But any idea what's the slow part here? The memory reading or the writing?
2022-04-18T00:55:34 < Steffanx> Yeah was about to say if maybe readying and writing larger chunks might help.
2022-04-18T00:55:58 < Mangy_Dog> tbh not entirely sure... memset, is a single byte method. so you have to send each byte one at a time. Massive overheads as it sends the command bytes and what not each time
2022-04-18T00:56:07 < Mangy_Dog> it wasnt designed for streaming
2022-04-18T00:56:13 < Mangy_Dog> seems this method is
2022-04-18T00:58:45 < Steffanx> Don't see obvious things to speed this up except when you manage to read a new chunk while you're busy writing, but that might require dma etc. Don't think your library can do that
2022-04-18T00:59:24 < Mangy_Dog> i did wonder if it might be possible to prep the streams and some how tie the dma of the two spi busses so they just stream between
2022-04-18T00:59:37 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont know that level of bare metal stuff
2022-04-18T00:59:43 < Mangy_Dog> wouldnt know where to start
2022-04-18T01:01:46 < Steffanx> Don't know how efficient your flash reader is..
2022-04-18T01:02:14 < Steffanx> And if you maybe can increase your spi clocks.
2022-04-18T01:02:24 < Mangy_Dog> there at 80mhz
2022-04-18T01:02:30 < Mangy_Dog> sooo umm
2022-04-18T01:02:38 < Mangy_Dog> i think at this point its bottlenecked by the cpu
2022-04-18T01:02:39 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2022-04-18T01:04:02 < Mangy_Dog> well the library was originally reading off sd card, and that was going a lot faster to load
2022-04-18T01:04:13 < Mangy_Dog> at least twice this fast
2022-04-18T01:04:35 < Mangy_Dog> and im pretty sure w25q flash should be faster than sd card which is meant to be rather limited when runnign in spi mode
2022-04-18T01:06:01 < Steffanx> Can't even find the flash lib you use by googling the method names
2022-04-18T01:06:07 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2022-04-18T01:06:46 < Mangy_Dog> W25q16 by Derek Evans,
2022-04-18T01:06:54 < Mangy_Dog> im using the q64
2022-04-18T01:06:59 < Mangy_Dog> but seems to be the same command codes
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2022-04-18T01:49:54 < Mangy_Dog> just realised
2022-04-18T01:49:59 < Mangy_Dog> the sd card stuf is zip compressed
2022-04-18T01:50:10 < Mangy_Dog> i dont think the mcu uncomresses it but its done on the fly by the gpu
2022-04-18T01:50:20 < Mangy_Dog> that might be why sd card loading is faster
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2022-04-18T19:11:57 < Steffanx> Did mawk die?
2022-04-18T19:16:10 < Mangy_Dog> what?
2022-04-18T19:16:28 < Mangy_Dog> for eal?
2022-04-18T19:16:31 < Mangy_Dog> real?
2022-04-18T19:17:40 < Steffanx> It's a question ;). A kinda dramatic question to get his attention
2022-04-18T19:17:46 < Mangy_Dog> oh thank god
2022-04-18T19:18:12 < Steffanx> Hah. No worries, yet.
2022-04-18T19:30:20 < aandrew> didn't seem to work
2022-04-18T19:32:41 < josuah> it did work to catch a lot of attention though
2022-04-18T19:33:49 < josuah> just not mawk's one... we are not at https://xkcd.com/1782/ yet
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2022-04-18T20:14:23 < kakium69> is there commercial solutions for small generator grid synchronization?
2022-04-18T20:14:41 < kakium69> small as in kilowatts
2022-04-18T20:15:19 < jpa-> pretty much every solar installation inverter does grid sync, so you could just rectify to DC and then put inverter
2022-04-18T20:15:35 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-18T20:15:44 < kakium69> now without inverter
2022-04-18T20:16:02 < BrainDamage> you need a dcdc mppt tracker
2022-04-18T20:16:10 < kakium69> actual rotating generator
2022-04-18T20:16:15 < kakium69> no
2022-04-18T20:16:30 < BrainDamage> oh, you mean a motor
2022-04-18T20:16:36 < kakium69> they dont use inverters in big power plants
2022-04-18T20:16:51 < kakium69> why to use in small one if synch is option
2022-04-18T20:16:51 < jpa-> big power plants aren't kilowatts
2022-04-18T20:16:56 < BrainDamage> what they do is just rely on grid inertia
2022-04-18T20:17:11 < BrainDamage> they adjust grid load so that generator freq is correct
2022-04-18T20:17:27 < BrainDamage> and they spin up and connect the generator with the right phase
2022-04-18T20:17:33 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-18T20:18:04 < kakium69> is there solution that is made with such integration and low price point that it makes sense for mere kilowatts
2022-04-18T20:18:11 < jpa-> most generators will self-synchronize with grid well enough, the real problem is controlling your turbine or whatever so that you get good power generation
2022-04-18T20:18:31 < BrainDamage> you can overdimension your generator and have a programmable dummy load to track the frequency
2022-04-18T20:18:36 < jpa-> kakium69: what would the "solution" control?
2022-04-18T20:19:38 < kakium69> contactor, adjust power, rotor winding current
2022-04-18T20:19:45 < kakium69> comms
2022-04-18T20:20:30 < jpa-> so what type of generator is this?
2022-04-18T20:21:57 < kakium69> generic generator used in multi kilowatt utility generators combined with water turbine
2022-04-18T20:22:21 < jpa-> so induction motor used as generator? it'll self-sync well enough
2022-04-18T20:22:57 < jpa-> the real problem will be controlling your water turbine, but that is obviously custom
2022-04-18T20:22:58 < kakium69> i dont think those are induction motors
2022-04-18T20:23:13 < kakium69> rotor winding has active current control
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2022-04-18T20:23:23 < kakium69> in such generic generators
2022-04-18T20:23:40 < jpa-> so you are looking for a generator controller without even knowing what kind of generator?
2022-04-18T20:24:17 < kakium69> does it make difference?
2022-04-18T20:25:32 < jpa-> of course it does, different generator types are controlled in different ways (e.g. if you have excitation windings that are actively controlled or not)
2022-04-18T20:25:42 < kakium69> active
2022-04-18T20:26:28 < kakium69> all the utility generators I have seen have such synchronized generator with AVR
2022-04-18T20:27:20 < jpa-> it still seems like it would be easier to build a turbine with constant blade angles and let it operate at its optimum point for whatever water flow condition, and then have the DC -> AC inverter separately, as opposed to just trying to have the turbine spin at constant speed always
2022-04-18T20:28:07 < kakium69> you think the optimum point would not be constant?
2022-04-18T20:28:25 < jpa-> why would it be constant?
2022-04-18T20:29:26 < kakium69> water head is constant
2022-04-18T20:29:33 < BrainDamage> but load is not
2022-04-18T20:30:07 < kakium69> adjust done with varying amount of nozzles active
2022-04-18T20:30:29 < BrainDamage> they adjust the flow with giant valves
2022-04-18T20:30:34 < BrainDamage> but they take time to response
2022-04-18T20:30:37 < BrainDamage> respond*
2022-04-18T20:30:59 < BrainDamage> the water hammer ( read: water's equivalent of inductance ) is enough to destroy things
2022-04-18T20:31:18 < mawk> wow the electronics shop I used to go to in Paris is still in business
2022-04-18T20:31:24 < mawk> it withstood a pandemic
2022-04-18T20:31:29 < BrainDamage> a dam takes 2 min or so to shut down
2022-04-18T20:31:39 < kakium69> you are thinking about load dump situation BrainDamage?
2022-04-18T20:32:16 < BrainDamage> load dump is an extreme case of fluctuating load
2022-04-18T20:32:24 < kakium69> add electric load(s) or induction break
2022-04-18T20:32:26 < BrainDamage> even normal ones can be dangerous
2022-04-18T20:32:31 < kakium69> *brake
2022-04-18T20:33:20 < BrainDamage> and those take care of freq wandering
2022-04-18T20:33:38 < BrainDamage> the turbine also act as a sink of it's out of phase with the grid
2022-04-18T20:33:42 < BrainDamage> for ... good and bad
2022-04-18T20:33:57 < BrainDamage> as in, one will act as motor, another as generator
2022-04-18T20:34:18 < kakium69> you are thinking about grid oscillations right
2022-04-18T20:35:13 < kakium69> stm32 pros are also grid pros
2022-04-18T20:35:46 < BrainDamage> I'm not a grid pro, I'm trying to remember shit that was taught me in a course > 10y ago
2022-04-18T20:36:46 < kakium69> they told a story where 2 grids were joined and shit went weird?
2022-04-18T20:37:24 < BrainDamage> you mean every time a plant gets shut down, even temporarily
2022-04-18T20:37:42 < kakium69> eventually after a while oscillations caused breakers to open between those 2 grids
2022-04-18T20:38:12 < BrainDamage> sounds like a cascade failure scenario
2022-04-18T20:38:30 < mawk> oscillation like phase difference between the two grids?
2022-04-18T20:38:39 < BrainDamage> once the main lines fail, the rest will get overloaded and fail as well
2022-04-18T20:38:48 < qyx> kakium69: a common induction motor can be used as a grid-tied generator
2022-04-18T20:41:42 < kakium69> what are the cons?
2022-04-18T20:41:59 < kakium69> pros are ofc simplicity
2022-04-18T20:42:01 < jpa-> it will work as grid-tie water pump when your flow is not high enough
2022-04-18T20:43:49 < kakium69> doubt
2022-04-18T20:44:47 < kakium69> water speed from nozzles at least 2x the speed of impulse turbine
2022-04-18T20:45:11 < jpa-> so wasting a lot of energy to the impedance mismatch?
2022-04-18T20:46:07 < kakium69> when it hits the bucket it will do ~180degree turn and ideally has no energy left
2022-04-18T20:47:11 < kakium69> 0 speed or such speed it's tossed aside just before next bucket would hit it
2022-04-18T20:49:36 < jpa-> nice thing about induction motors is that it is kind-of self regulating as the slip angle will vary based on torque
2022-04-18T20:53:38 < kakium69> just spin up the turbine and close contactor then maintain slip angle?
2022-04-18T20:54:50 < jpa-> just spin up the turbine and close contactor - how much you generate / consume from grid will then only depend on how much torque acts on the turbine
2022-04-18T20:55:20 < jpa-> for spinning up the turbine, you can also just use a regular induction motor soft start circuit to start it with grid power instead of water
2022-04-18T20:55:45 < kakium69> it makes no sense
2022-04-18T20:55:58 < kakium69> to add such feature
2022-04-18T20:56:26 < jpa-> well, it would be automatically at close to correct speed then
2022-04-18T20:57:16 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSYY1pyYIss wind turbines have some interestings excitation system
2022-04-18T21:03:22 < kakium69> I didn't undestand shit but it must be such system that has 3 generators in one axis and each one has it own excitation winding?
2022-04-18T21:04:13 < jpa-> wind turbines have wildly varying speed & torque, while you claim your system to have a constant flow & water head
2022-04-18T21:04:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-18T21:04:41 < kakium69> constant water head
2022-04-18T21:05:15 < kakium69> constant jet speeds
2022-04-18T21:05:38 < kakium69> I'm just pondering the options
2022-04-18T21:07:34 < kakium69> why isn't induction motors being used in utility generators?
2022-04-18T21:08:02 < BrainDamage> because then they need separate excitation
2022-04-18T21:08:22 < BrainDamage> instead of strapping the cheapest 2 stroke engine to the cheapest motor they can find
2022-04-18T21:08:46 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-18T21:09:04 < jpa-> and it is hard to control both voltage & frequency in stand alone induction generator
2022-04-18T21:09:46 < jpa-> because the load of a standalone generator will vary by itself, while a grid-tied generator will have a load that is proportional to how much it generates
2022-04-18T21:10:22 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-18T21:10:32 < kakium69> grid is virtually a endless sink
2022-04-18T21:10:36 < kakium69> *an
2022-04-18T21:12:11 < kakium69> with standalone generator load can vary 0-100 in instant
2022-04-18T21:13:57 < jpa-> grid is also nice in that your power factor can be pretty crappy before it becomes an issue
2022-04-18T21:14:59 < qyx> are you innovating a small hydro/micro hydro for your farm32?
2022-04-18T21:15:07 < kakium69> sure
2022-04-18T21:15:19 < kakium69> more like an product innovation
2022-04-18T21:15:35 < kakium69> but there is 330meter high hill next to my house
2022-04-18T21:16:04 < qyx> a pumped storage plant?
2022-04-18T21:16:22 < kakium69> there is potential place for such too
2022-04-18T21:16:31 < benishor> are there any particular windows drivers needed for stm32f411 dfu mode?
2022-04-18T21:16:42 < kakium69> qyx: with lake under the hill
2022-04-18T21:17:02 < BrainDamage> kakium69: how much water can you fit on the hill?
2022-04-18T21:17:11 < benishor> I shared code for a blackpill with a friend on windows and apparently in device manager he has an entry with "STM32 BOOTLOADER" with warning
2022-04-18T21:17:22 < BrainDamage> mgh is the potential energy of gravity
2022-04-18T21:17:26 < BrainDamage> and water is 1kg/L
2022-04-18T21:17:44 < kakium69> BrainDamage: question rather is how big mud slide you want?
2022-04-18T21:17:46 < BrainDamage> so you have 3kJ/L
2022-04-18T21:17:46 < qyx> you are at about 50% of storage efficiency with that
2022-04-18T21:18:38 < BrainDamage> a 1000L tank would give you 3MJ, that's slightly more than a car battery
2022-04-18T21:18:40 < qyx> I plan to do it with photovoltaics to pump water during the day
2022-04-18T21:18:55 < qyx> and use it as an emergency power when needed
2022-04-18T21:19:08 < BrainDamage> so you'd need to scale it at least 10x to make it worthwile
2022-04-18T21:19:23 < qyx> (my future-land has about 180 m of usable head)
2022-04-18T21:19:29 < kakium69> BrainDamage: I did calculations for small 3million litre storage
2022-04-18T21:19:39 < qyx> 3000 m3?
2022-04-18T21:19:42 < qyx> quite big
2022-04-18T21:19:43 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-18T21:19:45 < qyx> I planned 800
2022-04-18T21:20:09 < BrainDamage> 15m sided cube
2022-04-18T21:20:18 < BrainDamage> that's quite the object
2022-04-18T21:20:47 < BrainDamage> that starts entering the medium sized building range
2022-04-18T21:21:23 < BrainDamage> I hope you're good with concrete pours :P
2022-04-18T21:21:52 < qyx> I also considered wooden/timber tank where the land slope is not optimal
2022-04-18T21:21:54 < qyx> like https://waterstoragetanksinc.com/water-tank-models/timbertanks-and-tinytimbers/
2022-04-18T21:22:12 < qyx> a 15 m diameter tank, 2 m high
2022-04-18T21:22:14 < kakium69> water head was something like 150meters
2022-04-18T21:22:23 < kakium69> and it was less than MWh
2022-04-18T21:22:42 < kakium69> less than MWh.. thats nothing in big scale of things
2022-04-18T21:23:02 < qyx> still about 200 k€ of battery storage
2022-04-18T21:23:22 < kakium69> it costs more to build the pool
2022-04-18T21:23:23 < BrainDamage> but the cost of the project?
2022-04-18T21:23:47 < qyx> yeah, economically-wise I doubt it is feasible
2022-04-18T21:23:50 < kakium69> I have built 3000m3 storage for cow poops
2022-04-18T21:24:10 < kakium69> I think it was like 100kiloeuros
2022-04-18T21:24:11 < BrainDamage> I hope it's not on top of a 300m hill
2022-04-18T21:24:29 < BrainDamage> a shit wave would be extremely unpleasant
2022-04-18T21:24:41 < BrainDamage> and likely to make for history to come for a long time
2022-04-18T21:25:25 < qyx> oh I remember you posting some pictures in the past
2022-04-18T21:25:48 < BrainDamage> tangentially related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood
2022-04-18T21:26:10 < qyx> we had a big digestate flood last year nearby
2022-04-18T21:26:18 < qyx> quite an eco-catastrophe
2022-04-18T21:26:36 < kakium69> I think the pipe down from hill would cost another 100k
2022-04-18T21:26:53 < kakium69> there is also no roads so everything is more expensives
2022-04-18T21:27:40 < qyx> I considered a common 75 or 100 mm HDPE PN16 and/or PN25 piping
2022-04-18T21:27:55 < qyx> doing some calculations even 50 mm would suffice
2022-04-18T21:28:00 < qyx> for 1-2 L/s flow
2022-04-18T21:28:10 < kakium69> how long?
2022-04-18T21:28:18 < BrainDamage> kakium69: how long is the expected buyback time?
2022-04-18T21:28:23 < qyx> 350 m it was? don't remember
2022-04-18T21:28:33 < kakium69> sounds good
2022-04-18T21:29:13 < qyx> couldn't you use it for irrigation too?
2022-04-18T21:29:27 < qyx> to have some other pros besides energy storage
2022-04-18T21:29:57 < BrainDamage> might also be able to use as thermal sink
2022-04-18T21:30:45 < BrainDamage> once I ran the calcs here, and it's cheaper to run tap water into the radiators and dump the water in the sink than use a heat pump
2022-04-18T21:30:45 < kakium69> qyx: no need to pump water 150meters up for irrigation
2022-04-18T21:30:55 < kakium69> just pump directly from lake
2022-04-18T21:31:24 < BrainDamage> if you make an open dam the sun will partially take care of the filling for you :p
2022-04-18T21:31:38 < kakium69> sun?
2022-04-18T21:31:47 < kakium69> you mean rain?
2022-04-18T21:31:49 < BrainDamage> rain is water lifted from the sun
2022-04-18T21:32:02 < kakium69> yes but likelly wont match evaporation
2022-04-18T21:32:20 < kakium69> in summer
2022-04-18T21:32:40 < BrainDamage> what's the average precipitation there?
2022-04-18T21:32:51 < qyx> kakium69: no, you can pump during the day, irrigate during the night
2022-04-18T21:33:16 < kakium69> explain qyx
2022-04-18T21:33:28 < kakium69> the economics
2022-04-18T21:33:38 < qyx> if you want to use solar power for irrigation and the water is downhill, you have to pump it
2022-04-18T21:33:57 < BrainDamage> yeah, I guess that the kinetic energy comes for free
2022-04-18T21:34:09 < BrainDamage> you can irrigate long tracks without extra pumps
2022-04-18T21:34:22 < qyx> and obviously it is better to irrigate during night
2022-04-18T21:34:48 < kakium69> solar makes no sense here
2022-04-18T21:34:54 < qyx> so you use your surplus solar energy to pump uphill
2022-04-18T21:36:34 < kakium69> for irrigation I would just need to dig a hole with excavator to flat part on hillside and have ditches to run to the hole
2022-04-18T21:36:49 < kakium69> pond
2022-04-18T21:37:16 < kakium69> it would be 30 meters water head right there
2022-04-18T21:43:48 < BrainDamage> are you going to have your own swimming pool since you're there
2022-04-18T21:43:53 < BrainDamage> with frozen pond in the winter
2022-04-18T21:45:40 < kakium69> yeah there is 2 similar ponds within 500meters though
2022-04-18T21:46:05 < kakium69> one is too low water head and another is in recreational use
2022-04-18T21:46:56 < kakium69> they have row boat there it's that big of a pond
2022-04-18T21:47:16 < kakium69> it's made with excavator
2022-04-18T21:47:42 < kakium69> sauna ofc next to it
2022-04-18T21:48:43 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2022-04-18T22:57:03 < zyp> huh, gcc 11 fails building laks
2022-04-18T22:57:04 < zyp> during GIMPLE pass: evrp
2022-04-18T22:57:04 < zyp> laks/startup/entry.cpp: In function 'void entry()':
2022-04-18T22:57:04 < zyp> laks/startup/entry.cpp:60:1: internal compiler error: Illegal instruction: 4
2022-04-18T23:04:25 < Steffanx> Yesterday when we talked about dekar I noticed he also went back to gcc 10 due to regressions.
2022-04-18T23:04:28 < Steffanx> https://github.com/EliasOenal/TNT/commit/f10ed7b7c275f1cebe707f3e3c507a4e18018dbb
2022-04-18T23:04:32 < Steffanx> But he doesn't say what
2022-04-18T23:04:54 < Steffanx> But just dumping it here again
2022-04-18T23:05:49 < zyp> that's gdb, not gcc
2022-04-18T23:06:00 < zyp> and yeah, I'm aware there are issues in gdb as well
2022-04-18T23:06:16 -!- steve__ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2022-04-18T23:07:51 < Steffanx> Oh I misread it 😅
2022-04-18T23:07:55 < Steffanx> Fail
2022-04-18T23:09:05 < Steffanx> Reading is hard apparently
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--- Day changed ti huhti 19 2022
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2022-04-19T01:29:35 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhG18g4XNO8 music steff 5/5 quality
2022-04-19T01:31:27 < kakium69> it's bobbin
2022-04-19T01:37:43 < kakium69> my hydro project nice integrated controller for kilowatt range turbines went from 0-100
2022-04-19T01:38:58 < kakium69> now I'm thinking how to raise maybe couple of million yo-ros for megawatt range pumped hydro station
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2022-04-19T09:35:30 < benishor> PaulFertser: I managed to make contact with Maxim and chipped in some money for the radios. it's not much but it's honest moniez
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2022-04-19T10:05:48 < PaulFertser> benishor: much appreciated, thank you!
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2022-04-19T11:58:00 < steve__> to
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2022-04-19T13:24:24 < karlp> zyp: that constraints looks cool :) more read only c++ to me of course :)
2022-04-19T13:24:51 < zyp> it's new to me too
2022-04-19T13:25:12 < zyp> and constexpr if turned out to be neater for that particular problem
2022-04-19T13:36:36 < karlp> back at work tomorrow. sister is still here today, leaves this afternoon
2022-04-19T13:36:48 < karlp> who knows ,maybe one day even evening projects again...
2022-04-19T13:37:12 < karlp> microshit tried helping me over the break, but still can't enter iceland as a shipping address yet :)
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2022-04-19T14:43:18 < kakium69> hello ##startup32
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2022-04-19T15:46:13 < fenugrec> ##outofstock32
2022-04-19T15:46:28 < kakium69> ##venturecapital32
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2022-04-19T15:54:19 < fenugrec> oldmusic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGKLob9K5KY
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2022-04-19T18:06:50 < bitmask> hi hi hi
2022-04-19T18:55:24 < kakium69> hello innovator
2022-04-19T18:56:40 < kakium69> how innovation?
2022-04-19T18:58:43 < bitmask> slackin
2022-04-19T18:58:45 < bitmask> you?
2022-04-19T18:59:22 < kakium69> IRL interrupts need servicing
2022-04-19T19:00:21 < Steffanx> And irc is a high priority process kakium69 ?
2022-04-19T19:00:23 < bitmask> stop jerking off
2022-04-19T19:00:42 < Steffanx> Dont you like a wank once in a while bitmask?
2022-04-19T19:01:11 < bitmask> of course, but there is such thing as too much and i fear kaki might have reached that limit
2022-04-19T19:02:44 < kakium69> there is no return from beyond that limit
2022-04-19T19:03:38 < bitmask> I will pray for you tonight
2022-04-19T19:04:01 < kakium69> big thank
2022-04-19T19:04:54 < Steffanx> A few days back there was a story about a guy that wanked so hard he damaged his lungs and got serious issues
2022-04-19T19:05:02 < Steffanx> Not sure if true story
2022-04-19T19:05:35 < bitmask> wow
2022-04-19T19:05:39 < kakium69> how?
2022-04-19T19:05:39 < bitmask> just... wow
2022-04-19T19:05:53 < Steffanx> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10714549/Swiss-man-20-left-intensive-care-suffering-rare-lung-injury-masturbating.html
2022-04-19T19:06:33 < Steffanx> So just stop kakium69 or get help
2022-04-19T19:06:48 < Steffanx> Poor tct
2022-04-19T19:07:18 < Steffanx> Just your daily wtf 😄
2022-04-19T19:22:24 < bitmask> haha why did they point out he had ADHD
2022-04-19T19:32:50 < mawk> take care catphish
2022-04-19T19:34:07 < catphish> lol
2022-04-19T19:37:43 < Steffanx> Mawk is alive
2022-04-19T19:44:10 < mawk> yes Steffanx
2022-04-19T19:44:13 < mawk> I'm in France
2022-04-19T19:44:26 < Steffanx> Welcome
2022-04-19T19:48:51 < jpa-> "cracking sounds could be heard when they pressed their fingers on his neck, chest and arms" the bubble wrap man
2022-04-19T19:49:39 < mawk> lol
2022-04-19T19:50:15 < mawk> too much air around the lung can prevent the lung from inflating too
2022-04-19T19:50:20 < mawk> that gets deadly fast
2022-04-19T19:50:44 < mawk> you need negative pressure around the lung to be able to pump
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2022-04-19T20:10:58 < bitmask> should i have shitty cereal or go get a sausage/egg/cheese and a coffee
2022-04-19T20:11:19 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-04-19T20:11:34 < bitmask> thanks
2022-04-19T20:11:57 < fenugrec> The standard stm32 breakfast is waffels
2022-04-19T20:12:12 < bitmask> i would love a waffle right now
2022-04-19T20:12:16 < bitmask> hmm
2022-04-19T20:12:23 < bitmask> its not a stroop though
2022-04-19T20:13:56 < Steffanx> Waffle with maple syrup for you fenugrec ?
2022-04-19T20:14:06 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-224-21.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-19T20:15:36 < fenugrec> Ofc steffan. What else
2022-04-19T20:16:24 < fenugrec> Can you get maple syrup in .nl
2022-04-19T20:17:27 < Steffanx> I never looked for it. We have stroop
2022-04-19T20:17:37 < Steffanx> And waffles
2022-04-19T20:17:42 < Steffanx> And stroopwafels
2022-04-19T20:18:16 < fenugrec> I agree that's hard to beat. But maple makes everything better
2022-04-19T20:24:19 < englishman> i talked to some floridians who thought maple syrup came out of the tree like that
2022-04-19T20:24:29 < englishman> like straight from tree to pancake
2022-04-19T20:27:42 < BrainDamage> maybe if you burn the tree at the same time
2022-04-19T20:38:58 < kakium69> waas
2022-04-19T20:39:08 < kakium69> it's not directly from tree to bottle?
2022-04-19T20:44:46 < fenugrec> well you could use the sap directly, it's tasty, but that would make some soggy gross pancakes
2022-04-19T20:46:52 < mawk> you drink tree blood
2022-04-19T20:46:54 < mawk> you're a demon
2022-04-19T20:47:02 < fenugrec> to gain its strength
2022-04-19T20:55:45 < BrainDamage> also, it's not absolutely unreasonable as line of thought
2022-04-19T20:55:59 < BrainDamage> eg pine sap gets super dense sticky in the air
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2022-04-19T21:45:51 < kakium69> can I detemplate class? Class<types and shit> = ClassDeTemplated
2022-04-19T21:46:06 < kakium69> another way around
2022-04-19T21:46:16 < kakium69> is detemplate a word?
2022-04-19T21:50:51 < kakium69> maybe class ClassDeTemplated : Class<types and shit> ?
2022-04-19T21:58:52 < kakium69> using ClassDeTemplated = Class<types and shit>; didn't give any errors will see
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2022-04-19T22:09:52 < kakium6981> zyp: senpai are you there? I have c++ questions
2022-04-19T22:10:32 < zyp> sup?
2022-04-19T22:11:07 < kakium6981> I made my board functions as virtual functions in my class
2022-04-19T22:11:37 < kakium6981> I read now that it requires pointers and stuff
2022-04-19T22:13:04 < kakium6981> is there a way get board functions inline in my class?
2022-04-19T22:14:08 < kakium6981> without implementing them inside the class
2022-04-19T22:14:16 < zyp> what's «board functions»?
2022-04-19T22:15:03 < kakium6981> drive pin, change timer register, initialize timer
2022-04-19T22:15:31 < zyp> why are they virtual?
2022-04-19T22:15:55 < kakium6981> I dont want to implement them in the class
2022-04-19T22:16:02 < zyp> what class?
2022-04-19T22:16:32 < zyp> I don't have enough context for what you've got going on in your code
2022-04-19T22:16:43 < kakium6981> a sec
2022-04-19T22:19:01 < kakium6981> https://pastebin.com/Zqn0BKXN
2022-04-19T22:19:10 < zyp> but anyway, you might want templates instead
2022-04-19T22:20:03 < kakium6981> line 409
2022-04-19T22:20:21 < zyp> those static asserts looks overly paranoid
2022-04-19T22:20:59 < zyp> right, those are virtual
2022-04-19T22:21:37 < zyp> might not matter, they might get inlined anyway
2022-04-19T22:21:44 < kakium6981> ah
2022-04-19T22:22:02 < zyp> depends how they are called
2022-04-19T22:22:51 < kakium6981> okay line 733.. how to call that virtual function from base class?
2022-04-19T22:23:05 < kakium6981> not like that I assume
2022-04-19T22:23:31 < zyp> if the compiler knows what derived type you are at compile time (e.g. because you're making the call on an instance directly) it can omit the vtable lookup and then inline the whole method still
2022-04-19T22:24:25 < kakium6981> is it correct call for derived class method on line 733?
2022-04-19T22:25:25 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-04-19T22:26:12 < zyp> e.g. consider something like this: https://godbolt.org/z/KcKTE4G6o
2022-04-19T22:26:54 < zyp> the type of instance is known, so the compiler inlines both foo() and op() and folds it to «return 9;»
2022-04-19T22:29:23 < kakium6981> okay
2022-04-19T22:29:25 < zyp> if the type is not known, e.g. because you've got a Base* pointer and the compiler doesn't know which exact type of instance the pointer holds, it'll have to go do a vtable lookup
2022-04-19T22:30:35 < zyp> anyway, if that's not good enough, the other solution is using a template
2022-04-19T22:34:45 < zyp> like this: https://godbolt.org/z/YnhPTMvPK
2022-04-19T22:34:45 < kakium6981> https://pastebin.com/f2j6C6jp
2022-04-19T22:35:06 < kakium6981> I do that and IDE says it doesn't know what pwm_t is
2022-04-19T22:37:48 < kakium6981> I'm just winging it
2022-04-19T22:40:39 < kakium6981> first line should do something?
2022-04-19T22:41:16 < kakium6981> I try to get rid of the template first thing
2022-04-19T22:41:56 < kakium6981> okay I think I figured it out
2022-04-19T22:43:08 < kakium6981> I think I using keyword for every type defined by template
2022-04-19T22:43:57 < kakium6981> or at least pwm_t that is used in virtual function
2022-04-19T22:56:44 < kakium6981> using pwm_t = pwm_t_temp;
2022-04-19T22:56:48 < Steffanx> Line 1 kakium6981 . Joy.
2022-04-19T22:57:07 < Steffanx> For when you're not sure about uint8 or uint16
2022-04-19T23:01:01 < kakium6981> you become my mentor steff?
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2022-04-19T23:04:06 < kakium6981> hmm vscode defaults to replacing tabs with spaces
2022-04-19T23:04:42 < qyx> uh
2022-04-19T23:05:42 < kakium6981> Editor: Detect Identation seems to cause it this time
2022-04-19T23:06:03 < kakium6981> overrides disabled replace tabs with spaces
2022-04-19T23:08:53 < Steffanx> Nah kakium6981
2022-04-19T23:09:02 < kakium6981> 3 SPACES
2022-04-19T23:09:43 < kakium6981> it's fixed now.. apparently you can see identation from bottom blue bar
2022-04-19T23:09:47 < kakium6981> and change it there too
2022-04-19T23:22:21 < bitmask> hmm i think these motors were a bad choice...
2022-04-19T23:22:25 < bitmask> not enough windings
2022-04-19T23:22:35 < bitmask> not sure how slow they will be able to go smoothly
2022-04-19T23:25:03 < bitmask> how many windings do gimbal motors have? i know they are supposed to be good for going real slow
2022-04-19T23:27:02 < kakium6981> kv rating as low as possible basically
2022-04-19T23:28:12 < bitmask> is kv based on winding count?
2022-04-19T23:28:41 < kakium6981> not strictly
2022-04-19T23:28:57 < bitmask> in general lower kv is more powerful
2022-04-19T23:29:18 < bitmask> but power isnt necessary
2022-04-19T23:30:33 < kakium6981> lower kv = more torq generally
2022-04-19T23:31:27 < bitmask> gimbal motors dont seem to have a kv rating
2022-04-19T23:32:10 < kakium6981> large diameter and lot of windings
2022-04-19T23:32:27 < kakium6981> usually rather flat
2022-04-19T23:32:27 < bitmask> yea
2022-04-19T23:33:02 < bitmask> 12 electromagnets seems to be a common config, the motors I have are 9 maybe it wont be so bad
2022-04-19T23:34:41 < bitmask> guess i should just try it
2022-04-19T23:35:42 < kakium6981> gimbal motors have something bellow 100kv
2022-04-19T23:36:29 < kakium6981> lowest kv motor I have is donkey from hk 810kv
2022-04-19T23:36:50 < bitmask> my drone uses 580kv
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2022-04-19T23:37:00 < kakium6981> interesting
2022-04-19T23:37:16 < bitmask> but they were are more powerful than i want right now
2022-04-19T23:37:19 < bitmask> are*
2022-04-19T23:37:24 < bitmask> what
2022-04-19T23:37:25 < bitmask> hah
2022-04-19T23:37:25 < kakium6981> I have seen drones got flatter and flatter BLDC and bigger props
2022-04-19T23:37:36 < bitmask> yea they are pancake motors
2022-04-19T23:37:41 < bitmask> with 13" props
2022-04-19T23:37:47 < Steffanx> What's mr bitmask spinning around?
2022-04-19T23:38:06 < bitmask> i got a simpleFOC shield, i wanted to try some reaction wheel stuffs
2022-04-19T23:38:54 < bitmask> like balancing a cube on an edge or corner
2022-04-19T23:39:22 < bitmask> like a cubli
2022-04-19T23:40:54 < Steffanx> Yeah I know these
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2022-04-19T23:45:45 < bitmask> also depending on how powerful the motors are maybe a POV globe :)
2022-04-19T23:45:53 < bitmask> ive always wanted to make a pov globe
--- Day changed ke huhti 20 2022
2022-04-20T00:01:14 < karlp> fenugrec: thanks for king david
2022-04-20T00:03:41 < karlp> youtube search: place best result in the top of the results list? nahhhhh https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iVe3I.png
2022-04-20T00:06:38 < fenugrec> karlp lol, "king david" is such an unusual name
2022-04-20T00:08:51 < karlp> all of kak+s pastes are dead already...
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2022-04-20T00:14:14 < kakium6981> karlp: limited exposure
2022-04-20T00:14:22 < kakium6981> I will paste for you once more
2022-04-20T00:14:36 < karlp> no problem, was just reading backlog :)
2022-04-20T00:14:55 < karlp> zyp: thanks for merging shit, but I kinda feel like I should have cleaned up some of those fixme/wip commits a bit more :)
2022-04-20T00:15:20 < kakium6981> karlp: https://pastebin.com/8xs8pmcs
2022-04-20T00:15:52 < kakium6981> I don't know if it build yet
2022-04-20T00:16:04 < Steffanx> Lol.
2022-04-20T00:16:12 < kakium6981> look file date
2022-04-20T00:16:14 < Steffanx> You dont build all the time?
2022-04-20T00:16:31 < kakium6981> 0 times
2022-04-20T00:16:41 < kakium6981> I think it will work flawless
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2022-04-20T00:17:09 < Steffanx> Me too. kakium6981 is flawless
2022-04-20T00:17:19 < zyp> karlp, haha, I didn't look that closely at the commit messages, just flipped through the diffs and thought they looked reasonable enough
2022-04-20T00:17:20 < karlp> fuck me, it' slike the interverse lolrence, spaces everywhere!
2022-04-20T00:18:06 < karlp> I've had ~just enough holiday to consider whether I should spend my last night doing silly shit, or whether just video games.
2022-04-20T00:18:17 < karlp> already looked a shitty locm3 PRs and decided that was no fun :)
2022-04-20T00:18:40 < kakium6981> play vidya
2022-04-20T00:18:50 < karlp> think I will.
2022-04-20T00:18:56 < zyp> I ended up spending tonight buying silly shit from aliexpress
2022-04-20T00:18:58 < karlp> gonna rebase my local laks tree, see what's hanging out.
2022-04-20T00:19:06 < kakium6981> zyp: link plz
2022-04-20T00:19:13 -!- kakium6981 is now known as kaki69
2022-04-20T00:20:19 < karlp> getting a big new toy at work tomorrow though, https://www.calmet.com.pl/en/ts33-three-phase-fully-automatic-test-system-with-reference-standard-and-integrated-current-and-voltage-source
2022-04-20T00:20:30 < zyp> kaki69, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gucyW.png
2022-04-20T00:20:34 < kaki69> zyp: does c++ have standard tristate?
2022-04-20T00:20:44 < zyp> wat?
2022-04-20T00:20:52 < kaki69> unknown, tru, fals
2022-04-20T00:21:01 < zyp> std::optional<bool>?
2022-04-20T00:21:12 < karlp> you need 4 states, like bt aio :)
2022-04-20T00:21:30 < karlp> high, low, hi-z, unknown/unsupported...
2022-04-20T00:21:33 < kaki69> zyp how do I set it unknown?
2022-04-20T00:21:47 < kaki69> value = ;
2022-04-20T00:21:48 < kaki69> ?
2022-04-20T00:21:52 < zyp> blah.clear()
2022-04-20T00:21:58 < kaki69> thx
2022-04-20T00:22:06 < zyp> or blah = std::nullopt;
2022-04-20T00:22:17 < kaki69> ordered plasma torch head for tig too btw
2022-04-20T00:22:43 < zyp> I ordered a plasma cutter from vevor as well
2022-04-20T00:22:53 < kaki69> that's why I was asking to identify certain connector type in telegrams
2022-04-20T00:23:16 < zyp> idk what this vevor store is, but they seem to have a bunch of cool stuff and have been showing up all over the place recently
2022-04-20T00:24:00 < zyp> so I ordered some shit and are gonna try hacking up a plasma cnc
2022-04-20T00:24:29 < zyp> or just add more parts to my boxes of unfinished projects
2022-04-20T00:24:45 < kaki69> free innovation idea = plasma cnc without xy table
2022-04-20T00:24:51 < kaki69> plasma crawler
2022-04-20T00:25:24 < zyp> I thought about getting rollers for one axis, just pull the material through
2022-04-20T00:25:35 < kaki69> good idea
2022-04-20T00:25:41 < zyp> but nah
2022-04-20T00:25:47 < kaki69> that's actually smarter
2022-04-20T00:26:16 < kaki69> you know how much smoke that thing makes if not above water tank?
2022-04-20T00:26:38 < zyp> nope, but I'm gonna build water tank
2022-04-20T00:27:39 < kaki69> friend made one that has air chamber to adjust height of water
2022-04-20T00:27:55 < kaki69> maybe 2 cubic meters of water
2022-04-20T00:28:23 < kaki69> if constantly burning the water becomes warm
2022-04-20T00:28:50 < kaki69> easily dt=20kelvins
2022-04-20T00:29:32 < kaki69> it also evaporates that has caused him a bit of chore to keep it filled
2022-04-20T00:40:36 < kaki69> water height adjust basically reveals false bottom
2022-04-20T00:40:56 < kaki69> so stuff that falls through is easy to see and pick up
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2022-04-20T00:56:05 < kakium69> https://pastebin.com/ZvKcgYWq it doesn't like the parameter I give to it's constructor at line 115
2022-04-20T00:56:53 < kakium69> main.cpp(115, 18): argument types are: (const Motorspeed_Test_Derived::constants_t)
2022-04-20T01:11:05 < kakium69> hmm too many build errors
2022-04-20T01:13:29 < kakium69>  /home/janne/vscode_projects/helloworld/main.cpp:115:38: error: no matching function for call to ‘Motorspeed_Test_Derived::Motorspeed_Test_Derived(const constants_t&)’
2022-04-20T01:13:51 < kakium69> I see it wants the base class contructor
2022-04-20T01:24:34 < kakium69> c++101 anyone?
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2022-04-20T05:14:33 < bitmask> if you power a bldc with builtin driver with a separate external driver, will the internal driver blow?
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2022-04-20T12:04:42 < karlp> sif c++ for constexpr, just use good old "int __builtin_constant_p (exp)"
2022-04-20T12:11:55 < karlp> also, fucking c++: C++ designated initializers only available with '-std=c++2a' or '-std=gnu++2a'
2022-04-20T12:12:21 < karlp> so it wasn't complaining about that earlier, apparently that's just a -pedantic warning?
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2022-04-20T12:14:05 < karlp> tried turning on -Wconversion and -pedantic, but hoho, no, too many SDK and cmsis-dsp files with problems there :)
2022-04-20T12:14:21 < karlp> wish I had my old scons setup where I could enable those flags only on my own code...
2022-04-20T12:33:04 < jpa-> IIRC earlier versions of C++ have those stupid "trivial designated initializers" where you still have to specify every entry and in correct order
2022-04-20T12:34:48 < qyx> meh cmsis-dsp
2022-04-20T12:35:02 < qyx> I had problems with it, too many warnings
2022-04-20T12:40:17 < karlp> qyx: yah, current cmsis-dsp has actualyl fixed _heaps_ of it, but it plays very badly with silabs' sdk structure unfortunately,
2022-04-20T12:41:04 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, I'm re-re-rereading it again now, it seems like you really need to just use the = {0} or = {} (for c or c++) and then just init them by hand later :|
2022-04-20T12:43:10 < karlp> is there a common trick fow ehn you have a const struct *, and you want to be all cool c++ and use a reference instead of a pointer?
2022-04-20T12:43:19 < karlp> no known conversion for argument 1 from 'const sl_led_t*' to 'const sl_led_t&' ?
2022-04-20T12:44:58 * karlp just declares it as a pointer instead of ar eference and moves on
2022-04-20T12:48:01 < jpa-> just put a * in front?
2022-04-20T12:48:11 < jpa-> myfunc(*ledptr);
2022-04-20T12:49:17 < mawk> yeah put a *
2022-04-20T12:50:53 < mawk> a dereferenced pointer is automatically a lvalue, so it's convertible to a const lvalue reference
2022-04-20T12:59:03 < karlp> not sure where to add that here: https://godbolt.org/z/35Yb79KEn
2022-04-20T12:59:52 < karlp> https://godbolt.org/z/7EvT6zM6x works fine though, at least well enough...
2022-04-20T13:01:23 < jpa-> karlp: just remove the &
2022-04-20T13:01:31 < jpa-> WrapLed wled1 {some_led1};
2022-04-20T13:01:56 < jpa-> or you can make it *&*&*&*&*&*&some_led1 if you like the characters
2022-04-20T13:08:16 < karlp> ok, thanks.
2022-04-20T13:08:54 < karlp> when you then put the & back in to places later (in the bits in the // section) then it sort of becomes a bit of a wash between & and *, but good to get some experience with the damn references.
2022-04-20T13:16:01 < jpa-> i usually eventually end up wanting to do WrapLed fakeled{NULL}; which does not work with references
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2022-04-20T15:27:04 < fenugrec> this newfangled c++ seems like an awful lot of trouble for minimal gain
2022-04-20T15:31:17 < zyp> what does?
2022-04-20T15:35:09 < fenugrec> no C-style designated initializers, constexpr, weird casting
2022-04-20T15:37:06 < zyp> C++20 has designated initializers, albeit more restricted than C
2022-04-20T15:37:25 < fenugrec> right - it's taken c++20 to get something we've had since c99 : )
2022-04-20T15:37:59 < zyp> and I very much prefer constexpr to preprocessor macros :)
2022-04-20T15:38:00 < fenugrec> just trying to start a flamewar here, help me out
2022-04-20T15:40:24 < specing> it's taken c++20 to get something we've had since Ada95
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2022-04-20T16:00:58 < GenTooMan> Ada was intended for a different purpose than C++. C++ was not intended to prevent problems it was intended to be C with classes. Now people seem to be trying to add stuff to get their name added to the standard. I do like the fact a few years back they officially smacked people for misusing the keyword volatile at least. It's so easy to loose your sanity when you are desperately trying to shove things out the door. :D
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2022-04-20T16:02:13 < benishor> there are some worthy additions though. things like auto, move semantics, range based loops
2022-04-20T16:02:20 < benishor> lambdas
2022-04-20T16:03:29 < benishor> even regex
2022-04-20T16:03:56 < GenTooMan> I hope regex is a library standard and not part of the language.
2022-04-20T16:04:04 < zyp> obviously
2022-04-20T16:04:12 < benishor> ofc
2022-04-20T16:04:26 < benishor> but they come together
2022-04-20T16:05:16 * GenTooMan loves and hates regex at the same time, he's just "sed" that way :D
2022-04-20T16:05:51 < benishor> nice pun
2022-04-20T16:06:03 < benishor> you have a problem. you use regex. now you have two problems
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2022-04-20T16:18:28 < aandrew> benishor: reminds me of something I often say when working with junior devs: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think, "I know, I'll use threads," and then two they hav erpoblesms.
2022-04-20T16:19:00 < zyp> there's a long list of jokes on that pattern :)
2022-04-20T16:19:14 < qyx> meh thread flamewar
2022-04-20T16:19:31 < aandrew> yes there is, but the amount of times I've personally seen people try to naively use threads has burned that specific one into my memory
2022-04-20T16:19:50 < benishor> two threads a bar walk into
2022-04-20T16:20:04 < fenugrec> heh
2022-04-20T16:20:07 < qyx> lol
2022-04-20T16:23:11 < benishor> c++11 comes with great improvements in concurrency
2022-04-20T16:23:49 < aandrew> I just cannot get the hang of C++
2022-04-20T16:24:06 < benishor> noone's judging
2022-04-20T16:24:22 < benishor> there are a lot of nice languages out there nowadays
2022-04-20T16:24:44 < aandrew> I understand OO and classes and shit, templating makes my head hurt, and the weirder facets of C++ that you run against because they're buried somewhere deep in someone else's code/library just make me want to throw it all in a pile and set it alight
2022-04-20T16:24:45 < fenugrec> many write-only languages
2022-04-20T16:25:05 < benishor> hahah
2022-04-20T16:25:24 < benishor> would you consider golang and rust write-only?
2022-04-20T16:25:39 < fenugrec> I know at least two projects written in Ocaml. Main dev leaves : project dies.
2022-04-20T16:25:40 < benishor> tbh I'm not a sucker for rust's syntax
2022-04-20T16:25:56 < benishor> is ocaml still a thing?
2022-04-20T16:26:14 < fenugrec> still some academic wankery it appears
2022-04-20T16:26:38 < fenugrec> seems to be more popular in france. mawk do you ocaml ?
2022-04-20T16:27:12 < benishor> actually .. heh.. I worked with some guys at a product which was porting mainframe code (pl1, cobol) into "new age" lean and mean shit like java microservices
2022-04-20T16:27:19 < mawk> yes fenugrec
2022-04-20T16:27:27 < benishor> it's amazing how many big ass companies still run mainframes
2022-04-20T16:27:28 < mawk> it was caml though when I was in school
2022-04-20T16:27:34 < mawk> now they do ocaml
2022-04-20T16:27:45 < benishor> there's a lot of code there and they are afraid of change
2022-04-20T16:27:50 < benishor> because well, banks and such
2022-04-20T16:27:52 < aandrew> benishor: this medical company I'm working with is doing all embedded in rust and the higher level stuff is all in Haskell
2022-04-20T16:27:58 < mawk> ocaml is a real thing
2022-04-20T16:28:03 < mawk> not just academic wankery
2022-04-20T16:28:08 < benishor> I have yet to see haskell in a pragmatic environment
2022-04-20T16:28:19 < mawk> it's used in academic because it was designed by some academic laboratory in France
2022-04-20T16:28:27 < aandrew> rust is something I'd like to learn, but "let" and "mut" are instant turn-offs
2022-04-20T16:28:32 < mawk> lol
2022-04-20T16:28:45 < fenugrec> haskell, that's another one. Apparently tesla uses it internally for some stuff just because whoever was doing that project was a haskell weirdo and decided to do it their way
2022-04-20T16:29:14 < aandrew> yeah I was surprised they want to do it in Haskell but I'm not really on the software team so whatever. and rust? I'll dick with it but any serious debug to test hardware I'll do something quick in C
2022-04-20T16:29:22 < mawk> our competitor company does everything in haskell
2022-04-20T16:29:24 < benishor> tesla ... hmm .. this reminds me hud components in the dragon capsule were written in nodejs?
2022-04-20T16:29:26 < mawk> we have a spy there
2022-04-20T16:29:27 < benishor> I cringed
2022-04-20T16:30:14 < benishor> mawk: most likely they found out you have a spy in there and they intentionally use haskell when he's around just to counteract
2022-04-20T16:30:23 < specing> aandrew: have they ever used Ada?
2022-04-20T16:30:47 < aandrew> nope not to my knowedge
2022-04-20T16:31:03 < benishor> aandrew: lots of hipsters tend to want to try out all the new crap at work
2022-04-20T16:31:21 < benishor> I was younger too :-)
2022-04-20T16:31:43 < aandrew> yeah, one of the new sw devs approaches things in a really unusual way ( to me) -- she's a total academic and it's interesting to see how she approaches signal processing
2022-04-20T16:31:53 < aandrew> completely different from my naive approaches
2022-04-20T16:32:35 < GenTooMan> so lots of equations first? :D
2022-04-20T16:33:27 < GenTooMan> thank goodness for laplace I guess.
2022-04-20T16:34:30 < benishor> I bought Lyon's Understanding Digital Signal Processing and paid for matlab license and I'm not even working in the field. All for hobby, because I wanted to understand more
2022-04-20T16:34:59 < aandrew> GenTooMan: lots of equations, doing a fourier transform of the data to see what could be spotted, playing with wavelets...
2022-04-20T16:35:26 < benishor> when learning something new I usually start by monkeying around, copying stuff, modifying based on intuition, etc
2022-04-20T16:35:51 < benishor> but when a certain threshold is reached, I need to put a foundation on the things I grasped
2022-04-20T16:35:53 < benishor> so I go for books
2022-04-20T16:37:19 < aandrew> right. I have a huge pdf library and that book's in there. There was a REALLY good book I had years ago that I can't remember the name of, something like the engineer's guide to DSP or something to that effect. I found it REALLY approachable instead of the "let's just dive into advanced math" approach most texts take
2022-04-20T16:37:52 < benishor> do care to share the title if you remember it
2022-04-20T16:38:48 < fenugrec> aandrew, "The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing" ?
2022-04-20T16:38:58 < fenugrec> dspguide.com
2022-04-20T16:39:05 < fenugrec> have that bookmarked from way back, never read it
2022-04-20T16:40:04 < aandrew> I have that too, I don't think that' sit
2022-04-20T16:41:14 < GenTooMan> aandrew, well as a certain infamous entrepreneur would say "first we have to find the question we need to answer, otherwise how do we know we have the right solution?"
2022-04-20T16:43:24 < karlp> who said that?
2022-04-20T16:44:11 < GenTooMan> people hate this guy "Elon Musk" when asked why they were taking so long with certain parts of starship development.
2022-04-20T16:45:02 < karlp> benishor/fenugrec, I actually find c++ and rust to be _read only_ not _write only_
2022-04-20T16:46:10 < benishor> karlp: I like c++, not much experience with rust; I dislike its syntax
2022-04-20T16:46:22 < benishor> dlang was a very nice surprise alas it doesn't have huge support
2022-04-20T16:46:58 < karlp> yeah, dlang sounded like the good bits of c++, 20 years ago, but never took off.
2022-04-20T16:47:30 < karlp> hrm, /dev/rfcomm0 xists, but that doesn't given a /dev/serial/by-id/blah name :|
2022-04-20T16:52:07 * GenTooMan wonders how many languages have lived and died in the last 2 decades.
2022-04-20T17:20:24 < fenugrec> is any language ever really dead though
2022-04-20T17:22:56 < BrainDamage> a language can die, a language is defined by the compiler, if the compiler is self hosted and there's no binaries around, you have the bootstrap problem
2022-04-20T17:23:26 < BrainDamage> so you'd be reinveinting the compiler, but at that point it'd be a slightly different language
2022-04-20T17:23:48 < BrainDamage> not to mention, a pain in the ass
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2022-04-20T17:29:43 < PaulFertser> Why is it so common that people are trying hard to write a compiler in the same language they're developing?
2022-04-20T17:30:01 < zyp> dogfooding
2022-04-20T17:30:15 < srk> benishor: xmonad :)
2022-04-20T17:31:03 < PaulFertser> Other than dogfooding is there a solid reason?
2022-04-20T17:31:22 < specing> PaulFertser: your language is less credible if the compiler is in some other language
2022-04-20T17:31:36 < PaulFertser> karlp: haha, yeah, reading C++ feels much easier than writing.
2022-04-20T17:31:45 < srk> hah, tesla 'We use Haskell to auto-generate C code that is compiled into vehicle firmware.'
2022-04-20T17:37:33 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: like the compiler's source is a better documentation than any manual because it's unambigous, if the compiler is self hosted the devs also have a testcase for the language to develop at
2022-04-20T17:38:07 < BrainDamage> it becomes a bit of a circular reference, but it allows a decent degree of consistency and optimization
2022-04-20T17:39:33 < BrainDamage> you can have an external project, like eg rust had mozilla's web engine at start, but your goals need to be always aligned
2022-04-20T17:42:35 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: but not all languages are meant to be good for writing compilers.
2022-04-20T17:42:53 < PaulFertser> So that might be considered a distraction from a sensible goal.
2022-04-20T17:44:24 < BrainDamage> see the remark about control and goals, the compiler is a project managed by the compiler devs
2022-04-20T17:44:56 < BrainDamage> is it ideal? no, but it allows them to avoid handling one more project
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2022-04-20T17:49:07 < fenugrec> HolyC probably qualifies as a dead language
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2022-04-20T18:09:56 < englishman> don’t remind me ;-(
2022-04-20T18:10:24 < fenugrec> why, did you have to code a gui for templeos
2022-04-20T18:16:38 < rustytaco> lol i just threw up reading the scrollback.. lean and mean and java in same sentence? Java is a festering pile of suck :(
2022-04-20T18:16:51 < mawk> "mean"?
2022-04-20T18:17:25 < rustytaco> I think that means it eats all the CPU, which is true.. but thats opposite of lean so idk
2022-04-20T18:20:42 < srk> mean java, eats all the mem
2022-04-20T18:30:46 < karlp> not all java is jvm1.4 written by interns dude, it's not a horrible langauge really.
2022-04-20T18:47:36 < rustytaco> Strange.. literally every java thing i've used in the last several years still has sucked as bad as java sucked in 1995.
2022-04-20T18:48:10 < rustytaco> And that language itself? It's like C++'s ugly brother. A face only Oracle could love :)
2022-04-20T18:48:34 < karlp> ok then, good chat :)
2022-04-20T18:51:42 < benishor> I used to hate java for decades
2022-04-20T18:51:56 < benishor> and then I switched to java for 10 years
2022-04-20T18:52:10 < benishor> it felt like a beautiful breeze after years of c++
2022-04-20T18:52:39 < benishor> the apis were clean and cohesive, the standard library contained pretty much everything you needed
2022-04-20T18:53:21 < benishor> it's a beautiful language, really
2022-04-20T18:56:25 < fenugrec> the word 'boilerplate' was invented by java
2022-04-20T18:59:30 < benishor> there's boilerplate partly because there's a lot of reusable stuff
2022-04-20T18:59:57 < benishor> abstractions everywhere, things built on top of countless layers
2022-04-20T19:00:51 < benishor> package management shined though
2022-04-20T19:01:50 < fenugrec> I just get aggravated when it takes 50 lines of 'import com.xyz' to do anything
2022-04-20T19:02:11 < benishor> <fenugrec> HolyC probably qualifies as a dead language
2022-04-20T19:02:17 < benishor> ouch, quite a good one :)
2022-04-20T19:03:21 < karlp> fenugrec: java is also _extremely_ unfriendly to "I jus like using vim and a makefile"
2022-04-20T19:03:32 < karlp> and once you go intellij, you just don't see or care about the imports....
2022-04-20T19:03:51 < benishor> well, yeah. imports were needed though, how else would java know where to find symbols? easy way out is wildcart imports but that's not a good practice. modern IDEs collapse the import list so you never see it if you don't intend to
2022-04-20T19:04:01 < benishor> what karlp said
2022-04-20T19:04:53 < benishor> as for intellij, that's when I discovered what a truly good IDEs is
2022-04-20T19:05:16 < benishor> I don't think there are any other better IDEs out there for other languages
2022-04-20T19:06:17 < benishor> the myriad of refactorings, inspections (smart static analysis), they just make your life better
2022-04-20T19:06:37 < benishor> and ease your way to a better product, fo sure
2022-04-20T19:08:24 < benishor> on a different take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5ACJd2LvbY
2022-04-20T19:09:12 < benishor> I finally understood how polyphony was achieved on spectrums. a mistery that seemed like magic when I was a teen
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2022-04-20T19:11:41 < fenugrec> if you're into oldschool computer music, here's one on trackers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gTWf6IGCJM
2022-04-20T19:14:16 < rustytaco> Im more into pyrophones
2022-04-20T19:15:49 < rustytaco> rubens tubes are pretty rad too
2022-04-20T19:16:03 < benishor> fenugrec: thanks. I only used tracker as part of DOS demoscene
2022-04-20T19:16:08 < benishor> trackers
2022-04-20T19:16:18 < rustytaco> tracker music was best part of 80s and 90s computing
2022-04-20T19:16:25 < benishor> I didn't actually touch amiga in my life
2022-04-20T19:17:11 < fenugrec> I opened a tracker once "hey this looks cool. Uh.... is that seriously how these guys are doing it ? ok cancel"
2022-04-20T19:17:12 < rustytaco> many decades ago, i wrote a decoder for .xm files in pentium assembly but hell i cant remember much of the instruction set these days
2022-04-20T19:17:49 < rustytaco> some tracker interfaces were more..approachable than others - i liked impulsetracker pretty well but prolly because it was first i met properly
2022-04-20T19:18:05 < karlp> they were all immediately "trackker" uis though,
2022-04-20T19:18:18 < karlp> having better keybindings or navigations reallllly didn't make much difference IMO
2022-04-20T19:18:33 < karlp> I m ean, it absolutely did to be a viable composition tool...
2022-04-20T19:18:37 < benishor> impulse tracker was inheriting scream tracker's ui
2022-04-20T19:18:46 < benishor> fast tracker was also sweet, much more crackscene like
2022-04-20T19:19:40 < benishor> fenugrec: where you from? just curious, because amiga was more of a thing on the other part of the pond
2022-04-20T19:20:00 < benishor> like in NA. it didn't really catch in europe afaik
2022-04-20T19:20:02 < rustytaco> sadly i didnt get to play with an amiga til probably 2001 or 02
2022-04-20T19:20:13 < fenugrec> yea, never saw or heard about amiga before internet. Weren't very big here in canadia I think
2022-04-20T19:21:04 < benishor> nice sounds on the amiga. but on the zx spectrums and derivatives, oh man. being able to do polyphony and stuff in a 1bit environment was awesome
2022-04-20T19:21:44 < rustytaco> i still remember trading my soul for my first sb 16 card.
2022-04-20T19:22:00 * benishor looks into rustytaco's eyes and sees nothing
2022-04-20T19:22:03 < rustytaco> well that and if i remember right, 32mb of ram
2022-04-20T19:22:19 < rustytaco> Oh no, i got that back a couple years ago actually, for helping keep a mainframe alive :P
2022-04-20T19:24:50 < srk> hehe, after many failed attempts I've managed to find a zx game I've used to play - https://www.mobygames.com/game/zx-spectrum/nether-earth
2022-04-20T19:24:54 < srk> looks like one the first rtses
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2022-04-20T19:33:24 < benishor> cool, my favourite one was rick dangerous
2022-04-20T19:35:24 < benishor> recently I started getting my nose into fpga. I bought an altera de0 nano board and after doing some simple things like playing with leds and buttons, learning the very basics, I ported a Z-80 softcore to my board and got to feel that groovy thing I felt when loading games from tape again
2022-04-20T19:36:00 < benishor> saved some media in the process https://photos.app.goo.gl/tUkj1En8h6TJ1hrH9
2022-04-20T19:54:15 < srk> niiice
2022-04-20T19:54:56 < srk> like, it could use a bit more dated output device :D
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2022-04-20T19:58:47 < srk> pretty cool that archive org has these games and it just launch mame in browser :D https://archive.org/details/zx_Nether_Earth_1987_Argus_Press_Software https://archive.org/details/zx_Rick_Dangerous_1989_Firebird_Software
2022-04-20T19:58:58 < srk> *it can
2022-04-20T20:00:31 < benishor> I used this app
2022-04-20T20:00:32 < benishor> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.baltazarstudios.playzxtapes&hl=en&gl=US
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2022-04-20T20:00:53 < benishor> to play the games to my clone :)
2022-04-20T20:01:30 < benishor> and I chose the A-Z80 core because it's an exact replica of the Z80. the author went to great lengths to make this happen
2022-04-20T20:01:34 < srk> hm, Rick looks kinda broken or I fail guessing the keys
2022-04-20T20:01:35 < benishor> https://baltazarstudios.com/z80explorer/
2022-04-20T20:01:44 < benishor> keys: zx ok and enter
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2022-04-20T20:01:55 < benishor> enter + o = fire bullet, enter + k = leave dynamite
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2022-04-20T20:02:10 < benishor> enter+z or enter+x poke badies with a stick
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2022-04-20T20:04:52 < srk> thanks! managed to get past first screen :D
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2022-04-20T20:07:18 < benishor> since I've been incapacitated by flu in the last days, I spent some time in bed with the laptop, playing rick dangerous on fuse emulator
2022-04-20T20:07:43 < srk> looks like one of the early rouge games :D
2022-04-20T20:07:59 < benishor> I wanted to finish it so I probed memory and found where the lives, bullets and dynamite counters are being kept and where they are decremented
2022-04-20T20:08:11 < srk> haha
2022-04-20T20:08:21 < benishor> then I simply NOPed the DEC and an hour later I had finished it :)
2022-04-20T20:08:57 < srk> Nether Earth has a commented disassembly with graphics rendered in html, fun https://github.com/santiontanon/netherearth-disassembly
2022-04-20T20:09:46 < srk> not a rouge games fan? :D
2022-04-20T20:10:25 < BrainDamage> I miss textual adventures
2022-04-20T20:10:27 < benishor> didn't play that much
2022-04-20T20:10:47 < BrainDamage> some had such large vocabularies that it seemed you could talk with the pc
2022-04-20T20:10:51 < BrainDamage> it felt like magic
2022-04-20T20:13:06 < benishor> https://archive.org/details/Hobbit_The_1983_Melbourne_House
2022-04-20T20:13:11 < benishor> tried that, BrainDamage?
2022-04-20T20:13:53 < BrainDamage> nope, not that
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2022-04-20T20:41:37 < karlp> cool, hantek 6022BL works out of the box nicely with openhantek6022...
2022-04-20T20:44:18 < karlp> so https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rWrCR.png
2022-04-20T20:44:36 < karlp> do we reckon the offset is probe calibration, or my dual dac maths being not quite right? :)
2022-04-20T20:46:34 < karlp> well, the sideways is definitely my dac triggering
2022-04-20T20:46:43 < karlp> kinda curious about the vertical though
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2022-04-20T20:57:59 < jpa-> karlp: switch the probes around and you'll see
2022-04-20T21:01:09 < karlp> good idea...
2022-04-20T21:01:15 < karlp> I've done the calibration too.
2022-04-20T21:01:26 < karlp> sigrok works as well, but verrrrrrry different experience
2022-04-20T21:27:46 < karlp> this lack of ac coupling is kinda lamo, but whatevs
2022-04-20T21:30:59 < fenugrec> a few hours after complaining about c++, here I am writing qt code and scratching my head about lambda errors
2022-04-20T21:31:50 < karlp> ok, great, scope is better than my software, totally worth while purchase
2022-04-20T21:32:29 < fenugrec> can't tell if sarcasm
2022-04-20T21:33:19 < karlp> no, it is. $80 delivered, more than sufficient for my needs.
2022-04-20T21:33:37 < karlp> I always knew my little stm32 dual dac was perhaps not realllly ideal, but nice to see the little bits.
2022-04-20T21:34:04 < karlp> openhantek6022 is pretty neat, could hve some improvements, but wayyyyyy more usable as a pc scope than pulseview...
2022-04-20T21:34:24 < karlp> kinda used to be able to ac couple though,
2022-04-20T21:35:46 < fenugrec> the hantek dosen't do AC?? what kind of scope is that
2022-04-20T21:36:13 < karlp> eh: https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/blob/main/docs/HANTEK6022_AC_Modification.pdf
2022-04-20T21:36:17 < karlp> it's super cheap.
2022-04-20T21:36:37 < karlp> if the year goes well, I'm eyeing a riglol 5k, but this is realllly actualyl all I normally need for sanity of signals.
2022-04-20T21:44:30 < fenugrec> I like my tds744 but it's big, slow, and a bit noisy
2022-04-20T21:44:51 < qyx> doesn't karlp need some coworkers?
2022-04-20T21:44:56 < qyx> I want a new riglol too
2022-04-20T21:45:31 < fenugrec> are giglol model numbers sync'ed with siglend / tek models ? i.e. 5000 series with 5000 series etc
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2022-04-20T22:22:28 < catphish> morning
2022-04-20T22:23:41 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2022-04-20T22:23:49 < Steffanx> Another day in the workshop?
2022-04-20T22:25:51 < catphish> today was an extremely productive workshop day!
2022-04-20T22:26:16 < catphish> i finally assembled the majority of my battery box! https://photos.app.goo.gl/wm5zPjXjNopXiszX8
2022-04-20T22:26:50 < BrainDamage> what do you heatsink to?
2022-04-20T22:27:10 < catphish> BrainDamage: original radiator in the front of the car
2022-04-20T22:29:07 < catphish> BrainDamage: heat sink :) https://i.imgur.com/KAvgFKc.jpg
2022-04-20T22:29:14 < BrainDamage> aw, I hoped for something weird like using the chassis
2022-04-20T22:29:23 < BrainDamage> that's entirely too sensible :p
2022-04-20T22:29:40 < catphish> i bought 10m of rubber hose, and a pump
2022-04-20T22:30:03 < catphish> will pump water through the batteries, charger, inverter, motor, and radiator in a big loop
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2022-04-20T22:35:58 < specing> catphish: water? not oil?
2022-04-20T22:37:04 < catphish> specing: yes, water :)
2022-04-20T22:37:26 < catphish> actually the motor is oil cooled, but there's a heat exchanger built in
2022-04-20T22:37:42 < catphish> so i only have to worry about the water
2022-04-20T22:50:17 < kakium69> in race car tube chassis can be pressurized to and it becomes stronger apparently
2022-04-20T22:50:42 < kakium69> also if tube chassis fails you can see it from pressure gauge
2022-04-20T22:51:03 < kakium69> it's also used in aviation
2022-04-20T22:52:13 < kakium69> I think mainly so that you can see if to say heli tail has crack developing into weld or something
2022-04-20T22:53:47 < BrainDamage> I have a 2nd degree cousin that does maintenance for chinook helicopters, he said that the heli leaking oil is normal operation and it means you have pressure, it's when it stops leaking that you should be worried
2022-04-20T22:54:32 < kakium69> usually the case
2022-04-20T22:54:53 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r92int4KKZk nice porsche 911
2022-04-20T22:55:42 < kakium69> main part starts 6:27
2022-04-20T22:56:31 < kakium69> under 700kg and he is going for under 600kg
2022-04-20T22:56:41 < kakium69> by drilling holes to everything
2022-04-20T22:57:23 < kakium69> also has replaced fenders etc. with glass fiber ofc.
2022-04-20T22:58:46 < kakium69> in perspective the lightest brand new porsche now is something shy of 1300kg
2022-04-20T22:59:05 < kakium69> *1380kg
2022-04-20T23:03:41 < kakium69> how that man builds a car is more like how airplanes are made than how cars are made
2022-04-20T23:04:44 < catphish> my car is about 1000kg, might have to weigh it precisely when i'm finished, should have done so before i started, but forgot
2022-04-20T23:05:31 < kakium69> just look from wiki
2022-04-20T23:05:46 < rustytaco> idk kg but my prelude was down to 1400lb when i got rid of it ^.^
2022-04-20T23:06:19 < kakium69> you threw interior out?
2022-04-20T23:06:48 < kakium69> hmm.. doors and windows too?
2022-04-20T23:06:49 < rustytaco> Interior, good bit of engine bay, ABS, power steering, etc
2022-04-20T23:07:17 < kakium69> was this for.. road use?
2022-04-20T23:07:32 < rustytaco> Yes, 55mpg ^.^
2022-04-20T23:07:57 < rustytaco> Weight savings saves fuel.
2022-04-20T23:07:57 < kakium69> gasoline?
2022-04-20T23:08:01 < rustytaco> Ya
2022-04-20T23:08:11 < kakium69> 2.0 litre engine?
2022-04-20T23:09:03 < rustytaco> yup i4, about 140hp not stupid fast but good for fuel usage
2022-04-20T23:10:10 < rustytaco> my accord that replaced it actually has a 1.8l from the (2nd?) generation prelude that does well, but unless i close headlights, tape seams, etc i cant get it above 50 highway average
2022-04-20T23:10:34 < rustytaco> Do note our gallons are 3.8L
2022-04-20T23:13:04 < kakium69> you dont even need power steering if car weights 640kg
2022-04-20T23:13:25 < kakium69> you had vacuum brakes though?
2022-04-20T23:13:51 < rustytaco> dont need power steering in a stock accord or prelude really. Its nice to have in a parking lot but not needed (and actually bypassed above some MPH - i think 35? by the variable assist)
2022-04-20T23:13:58 < catphish> i went for a ride in a an EV today, they really are cool, i look forward to mine being functional!
2022-04-20T23:14:11 < rustytaco> kakium69: Oh yea. A booster weighs like 3 pounds
2022-04-20T23:14:32 < kakium69> hmm catphish.. first time in EV? :p
2022-04-20T23:15:54 < kakium69> my vw passat is like 1600kg :(
2022-04-20T23:16:45 < catphish> kakium69: actually my second time in an EV, but the first one was really slow :)
2022-04-20T23:16:49 < rustytaco> I got rid of a lot of 80s emissions stuff, opting for a simpler system that still performs better than the factory did (new, smaller evap canister; a proper catalytic convertor more suitable for lean burn operation (my AFR stays in the 14.5-20:1 area depending on exhaust temp :P
2022-04-20T23:16:55 < catphish> both were fiat 126's :)
2022-04-20T23:17:17 < kakium69> rustytaco: "metallic cat" ?
2022-04-20T23:18:29 < rustytaco> kakium69: old setup was a 2 stage cat, designed for use with a narrowband o2 sensor - ie: always experiencing brief rich then lean cycles as the ECU pushes and pulls fueling based on the sensor (It's more of an off-on switch than say a linear voltage from a wideband sensor)
2022-04-20T23:19:27 < catphish> rustytaco: my car doesn't have power steering :)
2022-04-20T23:19:47 < catphish> it's only a mild inconvenience when parking
2022-04-20T23:20:59 < rustytaco> Yea its no biggy in cars; tho i wouldnt even bother trying to move my truck without it
2022-04-20T23:21:06 < rustytaco> It weighs...6400lb? :P
2022-04-20T23:21:43 < rustytaco> hmm i'd have to find weigh slip as that seems slightly high. Im thinking more like 2.5 tons (4700lb)
2022-04-20T23:22:44 < kakium69> some old time things just did "powersteering" with muscle power, big steering wheel and insane side to side rotation amount
2022-04-20T23:23:06 < catphish> your non-metric units suck
2022-04-20T23:24:25 < BrainDamage> some old things also had a knob on the wheel for extra leverage
2022-04-20T23:24:42 < BrainDamage> the suicide knob
2022-04-20T23:24:51 < rustytaco> had a jeep that way. Bus size steering wheel and no power steering, manual 4 wheel drum brakes, and a 3 speed with an underdrive box behind it, it took forever to get it going any decent speed.. i cant imagine the i6 had more than 100hp lol
2022-04-20T23:27:02 < kakium69> BrainDamage: loaders and tractors still have those
2022-04-20T23:27:14 < kakium69> and some lorry drivers use them
2022-04-20T23:27:28 < kakium69> but apparently it's not legal for road use
2022-04-20T23:27:50 < kakium69> so you need to install it yourself to whatever road legal thing you want such in
2022-04-20T23:28:56 < rustytaco> UK vehicle laws are amusing. half of american vehicles wouldnt fly there
2022-04-20T23:29:16 < kakium69> why?
2022-04-20T23:29:29 < rustytaco> https://istabpeople.com/junk/deathtrap.jpg some months after this photo was taken, i got a motorcycle tag on this? :P
2022-04-20T23:30:13 < BrainDamage> kakium69: it's not road legal because that thing will end up in your ribcage
2022-04-20T23:30:17 < kakium69> that honda monkey looks weird rustytaco
2022-04-20T23:30:33 < rustytaco> kakium69: what is monkey?
2022-04-20T23:30:44 < catphish> US road laws seem to vary wildly, UK is fairly well aligned with europe afaik, though pretty lenient on safe modification
2022-04-20T23:30:57 < kakium69> rustytaco: honda z50
2022-04-20T23:30:59 < rustytaco> it is 1960s frame we upgraded a little and slapped an 11hp engine on ^>^
2022-04-20T23:31:33 < rustytaco> No more tape on the handle (my killswitch was leaking current into the frame and shocking me while on a mud run)
2022-04-20T23:31:40 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Z_series
2022-04-20T23:32:36 < rustytaco> oh thats neat
2022-04-20T23:32:59 < rustytaco> mines 208cc with a CVT
2022-04-20T23:33:05 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-20T23:33:12 < kakium69> very deadly
2022-04-20T23:33:37 < kakium69> practically uncontrollable power
2022-04-20T23:33:43 < rustytaco> Nah its really not bad at all
2022-04-20T23:34:03 < rustytaco> Ive had it up to 60mph and thats as fast as i wanna go on it, ever again.
2022-04-20T23:34:36 < kakium69> it could still pull a wheelie with that power @60
2022-04-20T23:35:31 < rustytaco> Maybe, i've never had problems with it wanting to pull wheelies after getting the gearing where we have it now (10 front, 44 rear teeth)
2022-04-20T23:36:16 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_PV_50 they used to slap 80cc to these and ofc bigger carb and tune exhaust + gearing to reach 120kph
2022-04-20T23:36:38 < rustytaco> i try to keep this 40mph or less (:
2022-04-20T23:36:52 < rustytaco> it does great there to get the offroad riding and back home
2022-04-20T23:37:11 < kakium69> apparently those tunes made 8-10hp
2022-04-20T23:37:24 < kakium69> legal limit 1.5hp
2022-04-20T23:40:24 < rustytaco> i'd believe it; these 208 stock at 8hp; with slide carb, homemade exhaust, and new valve springs i'd say we're making a good 11hp, which is plenty
2022-04-20T23:40:43 < rustytaco> kakium69: those 80cc are 2 stroke tho arent they?
2022-04-20T23:40:48 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-20T23:41:14 < kakium69> honda was 4stroke and suzuki 2stroke
2022-04-20T23:41:21 < rustytaco> 4 speed too nice
2022-04-20T23:41:29 < rustytaco> Looks quite fun
2022-04-20T23:41:55 < kakium69> do you have vehicle class in mericas for 50cc mopeds?
2022-04-20T23:42:13 < kakium69> or is something similar to bicycle?
2022-04-20T23:42:13 < rustytaco> technically below 50cc is a motorized bicycle and in most places exempt
2022-04-20T23:42:21 < rustytaco> Thats why i have 49cc sticker on my 208 lol
2022-04-20T23:42:28 < kakium69> age restrictions?
2022-04-20T23:43:07 < rustytaco> Probably teenager of some point, idk. I grew up in rural place where if you built it, you could drive it on the roads as long as you had way to keep the coal trucks from running you over :P
2022-04-20T23:43:23 < rustytaco> Lights and loud exhaust worked good for that
2022-04-20T23:44:38 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17EJk1X-DDn9_cvvuK1Fo5IU8gk6t7EH4/view?usp=sharing my moped
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2022-04-20T23:45:51 < rustytaco> for this, i just ride it in town a bit from home out to the woods outside the city and there's hundreds of miles of trails and dirt roads within a tank of fuel (but maybe not back lol)
2022-04-20T23:46:34 < rustytaco> kakium69: that loosk bigger than moped lol
2022-04-20T23:46:41 < rustytaco> 100cc?
2022-04-20T23:46:49 < kakium69> 600cc
2022-04-20T23:46:53 < rustytaco> nice
2022-04-20T23:47:30 < kakium69> it feels like moped though I always gib it full throttle
2022-04-20T23:51:19 < kakium69> feels like moped = feels uneventful
2022-04-20T23:52:33 < rustytaco> ur saying my 208cc is faster? :P
2022-04-20T23:52:51 < kakium69> I bet it feels faster
2022-04-20T23:53:59 < kakium69> 60 must feel absolutelly unnerving
--- Day changed to huhti 21 2022
2022-04-21T00:11:28 < karlp> qyx: the riglol would be for myself.
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2022-04-21T00:14:41 < qyx> thats why I am asking
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2022-04-21T00:24:12 < karlp> co workers at home ?
2022-04-21T00:24:20 < karlp> nah,
2022-04-21T00:24:26 < karlp> maybe? will know later this year :)
2022-04-21T00:25:22 < karlp> changing vertical divs is fine for 1V, fine for 500mV, fine for 2V and 5V.
2022-04-21T00:25:43 < karlp> but if I put vdiv to 200mV it's fucked.
2022-04-21T00:26:16 < karlp> it's truncating at ~1V.
2022-04-21T00:27:01 < catphish> today's musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2WEogDFByk
2022-04-21T00:27:06 < karlp> weird as shit.
2022-04-21T00:27:15 < karlp> I bet that's just shitty hw design in the front end switches.
2022-04-21T00:29:07 < catphish> my new firmware for my tesla inverter, haven't had a chance to test it yet: https://github.com/catphish/sdu-basic/blob/master/main.c
2022-04-21T00:34:48 < kakium69> 10times smaller than my pwm code
2022-04-21T00:38:06 < kakium69> catphish: that's the whole thing?
2022-04-21T00:39:05 < kakium69> hmm some massive LUTs in table.h
2022-04-21T00:39:26 < kakium69> is that 3 sines 120degrees apart?
2022-04-21T00:40:10 < catphish> kakium69: yes, yes, and yes
2022-04-21T00:41:06 < kakium69> same index used for all of them per access?
2022-04-21T00:41:36 < catphish> kakium69: yes
2022-04-21T00:41:49 < kakium69> if so you will have 3 random access instead of 1.. idk if it matters on cortex m3
2022-04-21T00:41:58 < kakium69> how caching etc goes
2022-04-21T00:42:22 < catphish> i don't suppose 3 memory accesses are going to have a dramatic impact, but could certainly merge them
2022-04-21T00:42:53 < catphish> the floating point calculation that's done on each one immediately aferwards will be much more expensive
2022-04-21T00:43:20 < kakium69> hmm yeah
2022-04-21T00:43:55 < qyx> catphish: is a LUT actually faster tham computing sines in realtime?
2022-04-21T00:44:11 < qyx> or you are running on f103 still?
2022-04-21T00:44:14 < kakium69> on M3 certainly
2022-04-21T00:46:19 < kakium69> catphish: how many hundred instructions that float*float is?
2022-04-21T00:48:55 < kakium69> do you need to disable anything if you get "break interrupt flag" ?
2022-04-21T00:50:12 < kakium69> c++ senpais online?
2022-04-21T00:51:30 < catphish> qyx: F103
2022-04-21T00:52:18 < catphish> kakium69: the break interrupt instantly disables the PWM outputs on its own
2022-04-21T00:52:41 < kakium69> and there is no automatic recover of any sort?
2022-04-21T00:54:09 < catphish> kakium69: no
2022-04-21T00:54:44 < catphish> once that interrupt is triggered, PWM is dead until it's manually re-enabled, which my code refuses to do :)
2022-04-21T00:55:28 < kakium69> your code lacks current limits and temperature monitor
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2022-04-21T00:57:17 < kakium69> still impressive how little code it takes to rotate AC motor
2022-04-21T00:57:36 < kakium69> does it have reverse?
2022-04-21T00:57:44 < catphish> kakium69: it implements a hardware current limit, configure_ocurlim_pwm() drives a comparator that triggers the PWM break on overcurrent
2022-04-21T00:58:07 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-21T00:58:12 < catphish> pwm->filter->comparator->break
2022-04-21T00:58:28 < catphish> no temperature sensing yet
2022-04-21T00:58:55 < kakium69> but you need something that works more subtle
2022-04-21T00:59:02 < catphish> and yeah, you can just output a fixed sine wave to an inductin motor and it will spin
2022-04-21T00:59:08 < kakium69> is it input or output current for that pwm?
2022-04-21T00:59:40 < catphish> output current, 2 of the 3 motor phases are sensed and both compared
2022-04-21T01:00:45 < kakium69> you need to implement battery limit too
2022-04-21T01:04:50 < catphish> that's way off being a concern :)
2022-04-21T01:05:04 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-21T01:05:16 < catphish> well, there's a lot still to do
2022-04-21T01:05:21 < kakium69> ah yes
2022-04-21T01:05:27 < kakium69> how is that oil pump reverse project?
2022-04-21T01:05:36 < catphish> maximum current shouldn't be an issue, it's determined by maximum throttle
2022-04-21T01:06:07 < catphish> but there's lots else to do, battery voltage monitoring, contactor control, temperature monitoring
2022-04-21T01:06:21 < catphish> oil pump reverse was (as far as i can tell) success
2022-04-21T01:06:37 < catphish> it's kinda scary though that i won't really know how well it works unless it fials
2022-04-21T01:06:44 < catphish> *fails
2022-04-21T01:06:54 < kakium69> it starts to make sounds before it fails
2022-04-21T01:07:00 < catphish> oh good
2022-04-21T01:07:15 < kakium69> *fails completelly
2022-04-21T01:07:36 < kakium69> pics of that thing?
2022-04-21T01:11:05 < kakium69> I have const unsigned int
2022-04-21T01:11:43 < kakium69> * of undefined size
2022-04-21T01:12:16 < kakium69> how do I get the smallest type that can store the value that const unsigned variable has?
2022-04-21T01:13:26 < catphish> pics of the pump?
2022-04-21T01:14:01 < kakium69> of the conversion
2022-04-21T01:14:15 < kakium69> does the drive unit have oil pressure port?
2022-04-21T01:15:04 < kakium69> motor case have some hole that would go to pressurized side?
2022-04-21T01:15:05 < catphish> best source of information is here: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/vx220-with-tesla-sdu.205616/page-5#post-1087987
2022-04-21T01:15:06 < catphish> and here https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29141
2022-04-21T01:15:42 < catphish> no easily accessible pressure port
2022-04-21T01:21:33 < kakium69> why not have external pressure valve connected to that hose?
2022-04-21T01:22:44 < catphish> i'd have to make a hole in the casing
2022-04-21T01:23:24 < kakium69> https://hmb-guzzi.de/Oil-pressure-relief-valve-HMB-4-Bar something like this
2022-04-21T01:24:24 < catphish> oh, sorry, pressure relief value
2022-04-21T01:24:32 < catphish> that was actually my original plan
2022-04-21T01:24:34 < kakium69> ye
2022-04-21T01:24:56 < kakium69> any idea how high pressure the original had?
2022-04-21T01:25:09 < catphish> 1 bar
2022-04-21T01:25:18 < kakium69> makes sense
2022-04-21T01:25:46 < catphish> but i thought the modification of the original pump's pressure relief to work in reverse seems feasible, so i did that instead
2022-04-21T01:27:58 < kakium69> ah there was option to reverse that :o
2022-04-21T01:30:28 < catphish> that's what i did, i modified the original pump's pressure relief valve to let off pressure from what used to be the input pipe (now the output pipe)
2022-04-21T01:30:52 < kakium69> found the test video
2022-04-21T01:30:54 < kakium69> nice
2022-04-21T01:31:52 < catphish> it's a bit hacky, but appears to work well
2022-04-21T01:32:36 < kakium69> if it fails can you detect it from motor temp?
2022-04-21T01:33:02 < catphish> i really don't know what would happen
2022-04-21T01:34:27 < kakium69> that pump pushes oil through the motor?
2022-04-21T01:38:04 < kakium69> karlp pro
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2022-04-21T01:54:48 < catphish> kakium69: yes i think so
2022-04-21T01:55:17 < catphish> i think it goes through the motor for cooling and then also lubricates the gears on the way back down
2022-04-21T01:55:42 < kakium69> no squirters?
2022-04-21T01:56:07 < kakium69> just comes out of bearing or something?
2022-04-21T01:56:32 < kakium69> was this the motor that has oil inside rotor axle?
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2022-04-21T02:09:36 < kakium69> I think it has oil paths inside axles to get bearings both ends idk. how gears get lubrication though.. it might just have lowest gear spattering oil around the case
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2022-04-21T02:21:47 < catphish> i really don't know how the oil circulation works, it didn't seem important
2022-04-21T02:25:41 < kakium69> have you concidered that oil pickup should have oil to pick up now that it accelerates in reverse
2022-04-21T02:27:04 < kakium69> does oil pool elsewhere than on pickup now that it accelerates in another direction
2022-04-21T02:31:49 < kakium69> it's at rear bottom of the case in original configuration?
2022-04-21T02:33:30 < catphish> kakium69: it's just the bottom, given that a car must accelerate and decelerate in equal amounts, it shouldn't matter
2022-04-21T02:34:18 < catphish> i guess it needs more oil when accelerating, but i don't anticipate the very bottom point ever running dry
2022-04-21T02:40:02 < kakium69> interesting the motor is rather upright in tesla
2022-04-21T02:45:49 < kakium69> yeah you have pickup in diff end and diff is behind the motor in your build so yes it pools on pickup
2022-04-21T02:46:12 < kakium69> even when accelerating
2022-04-21T02:51:10 < catphish> on an unreliated topic - this is impressive - https://areyoutheasshole.com/
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2022-04-21T03:37:33 < emeb_mac> Anyone here ever used clang for STM32?
2022-04-21T03:56:27 < rustytaco> havent tried but be interesting to see f it works
2022-04-21T03:57:28 < rustytaco> catphish: According to 85% of customers, i am indeed an asshole :P
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2022-04-21T04:27:57 < steve__> is it possible to look at snippets of CubeMX generated code inside CubeMX? eg. I change one little thing about a pin, just show me that snippet of generated code?
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2022-04-21T12:45:31 < benishor> <steve__> is it possible to look at snippets of CubeMX generated code inside CubeMX? eg. I change one little thing about a pin, just show me that snippet of generated code?
2022-04-21T12:45:36 < benishor> I suppose you can do that with any diff tool
2022-04-21T12:46:10 < benishor> and even git diff (you do use versioning control, do you?)
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2022-04-21T15:00:58 < kakium69> c++ pros
2022-04-21T15:01:42 < kakium69> zyp, karlp: if I use constructor initializer does the variables in class need to be public that are being initialized?
2022-04-21T15:12:01 < kakium69> hmm I need to use this keyword or something
2022-04-21T15:13:40 < kakium69> I cannot objects
2022-04-21T15:29:03 < kakium69> fixed some typos and it's now 30errors
2022-04-21T15:29:25 < kakium69> mainly "was not declared in this scope"
2022-04-21T15:33:17 < kakium69> bbl>
2022-04-21T15:42:46 < zyp> no
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2022-04-21T16:41:33 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: kakium69
2022-04-21T16:47:55 < karlp> kak should no better than to ask me c++ questions...
2022-04-21T17:53:10 < bitmask> you should really figure out how sample code works before running it... had a motor spinning for a few minutes and touched the motor and it burned me. didnt realize the default was to set the current to 2A, hopefully nothing burned out
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2022-04-21T18:06:11 < Steffanx> Noo bitmask
2022-04-21T18:06:23 < Steffanx> Learning the hard way is more fun
2022-04-21T18:06:36 < bitmask> heh
2022-04-21T18:08:10 < zyp> a stepper then?
2022-04-21T18:08:22 < bitmask> bldc
2022-04-21T18:09:04 < zyp> what control mode?
2022-04-21T18:09:31 < bitmask> FOC which i dont know enough about yet
2022-04-21T18:10:05 < bitmask> i think its set to torque control or something
2022-04-21T18:10:21 < bitmask> i dont know im just learning how this library works now
2022-04-21T18:10:58 < bitmask> ive only ever used ESCs before for brushless motors
2022-04-21T18:11:39 < zyp> but were it spinning really fast or what?
2022-04-21T18:11:58 < bitmask> not really
2022-04-21T18:12:06 < bitmask> i just think it was using too high a current
2022-04-21T18:13:05 < zyp> doesn't sound right to me
2022-04-21T18:13:16 < zyp> but I'm not an expert on foc either
2022-04-21T18:13:28 < bitmask> i'll figure it out
2022-04-21T18:13:49 < zyp> I just finished a motor control project at work last week
2022-04-21T18:14:34 < bitmask> it could just be because im bypassing the internal driver and using an external one, that was my original thought but then i saw the current was set to 2A which is too high
2022-04-21T18:14:46 < zyp> some prototype thing, so I picked a EVSPIN32G4 for it
2022-04-21T18:15:15 < zyp> but no time to play with my own firmware, so I just used the st motor sdk generated shit as is
2022-04-21T18:15:49 < zyp> was intending to add my own protocol for talking to it, but it was quicker just reverse engineering the existing one
2022-04-21T18:16:37 < bitmask> wtf, $315
2022-04-21T18:16:40 < bitmask> damn
2022-04-21T18:16:46 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-21T18:17:01 < zyp> I still wanna learn foc, so I've got a B-G431B-ESC1 on the way to play with
2022-04-21T18:17:14 < zyp> what are you using?
2022-04-21T18:18:23 < bitmask> i didnt look around at all and just went with this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002496275228.html
2022-04-21T18:22:55 < zyp> the biggest issue I had was that there were no way of limiting the speed controller only to positive torque
2022-04-21T18:23:40 < zyp> negative torque means regen braking, and I had no battery or braking resistor to consume the regenerated energy
2022-04-21T18:24:22 < zyp> I blew up some stuff that way by overvolting the 24V rail :p
2022-04-21T18:24:47 < bitmask> heh
2022-04-21T18:25:23 < zyp> ended up just running it in torque mode with my own PID for speed control on the main controller
2022-04-21T18:26:26 < bitmask> these motors are so nice and quiet
2022-04-21T18:26:32 < bitmask> nidec 24h
2022-04-21T18:27:05 < zyp> looks small
2022-04-21T18:27:11 < bitmask> they are
2022-04-21T18:28:08 < zyp> mine was a bit larger: https://en.nanotec.com/products/2148-db59c024035r-a :)
2022-04-21T18:28:22 < bitmask> using a $300 driver i would hope so
2022-04-21T18:28:52 < zyp> haha, yeah
2022-04-21T18:29:16 < zyp> driver is a bit overkill, rated for 75V or something and I'm running it at 24V
2022-04-21T18:30:56 < zyp> were originally planning to use a simple brushed motor in the project, and people weren't sure how much power it'd require, so they bought two; one 30-something watts and one 65W
2022-04-21T18:31:31 < zyp> so I put in the 65W motor when I started, and it just couldn't handle the load, at all
2022-04-21T18:32:31 < zyp> didn't want to replace the whole PSU and everything, so I searched for the largest 24V BLDC motor I could find and ended up with that
2022-04-21T18:39:00 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1517165431894728704
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2022-04-21T21:39:10 < kakium69> zyp: want to try to build my code?
2022-04-21T21:44:29 < zyp> not really, why?
2022-04-21T21:45:29 < kakium69> I don't know what I'm doing wrong
2022-04-21T21:45:46 < zyp> the thing that's not right
2022-04-21T21:45:56 < zyp> so what's the issue? it doesn't build
2022-04-21T21:45:57 < zyp> ?
2022-04-21T21:47:27 < kakium69> error: ‘ramp_t’ does not name a type and ~10 similar
2022-04-21T21:47:28 < kakium69> also
2022-04-21T21:47:44 < zyp> yeah, sure, I can try building it
2022-04-21T21:47:47 < kakium69> was not declared in this scope
2022-04-21T21:47:55 < kakium69> 20 of those
2022-04-21T21:48:09 < kakium69> ofc it's something obvious about the way objects work
2022-04-21T21:50:04 < kakium69> noobkaks needs a push
2022-04-21T21:50:22 < kakium69> a sec I'm copying sources from wsl
2022-04-21T21:56:30 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1De4TIgXIENkEVfEVmc5o_9GP99V6_BCS?usp=sharing
2022-04-21T22:02:12 < kakium69> line 331 is the problem?
2022-04-21T22:04:02 < zyp> what c++ version are you targetting? c++20?
2022-04-21T22:04:17 < kakium69> 11
2022-04-21T22:04:25 < zyp> 11?
2022-04-21T22:04:47 < kakium69> yeah I think I didn't add anything from 17
2022-04-21T22:04:53 < zyp> do you explicitly ask for a standard that old? modern compilers default to newer
2022-04-21T22:05:24 < kakium69> no but for ie. AVR there is no never gcc than 5.4?
2022-04-21T22:05:30 < kakium69> *newer
2022-04-21T22:05:38 < zyp> fuck avr
2022-04-21T22:05:43 < kakium69> :)
2022-04-21T22:06:07 < zyp> whatever, I'm just gonna leave that to whatever is default then
2022-04-21T22:07:01 < kakium69> hmm it should make a difference
2022-04-21T22:07:42 < zyp> you've got a bunch of C-isms here
2022-04-21T22:07:49 < kakium69> I bet
2022-04-21T22:08:02 < zyp> typedef struct constants_s { … } constants_t; is pointless
2022-04-21T22:08:12 < zyp> just do: struct constants_t { … };
2022-04-21T22:08:20 < kakium69> :o
2022-04-21T22:08:27 < kakium69> that is the problem?
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2022-04-21T22:09:24 < kakium69> is those 2 lines effectivelly the same?
2022-04-21T22:09:27 < zyp> no, that shouldn't matter, just looks silly
2022-04-21T22:09:39 < kakium69> but only in c++?
2022-04-21T22:09:42 < zyp> in C++ they should be pretty much equivalent, in C they are not
2022-04-21T22:10:07 < zyp> in C++, struct names are types on their own, in C they are not
2022-04-21T22:10:48 < kakium69> when I try to build it gets 31errors
2022-04-21T22:11:13 < zyp> yeah, I'm working on it
2022-04-21T22:14:50 < kakium69> some constexprs should probs be just consts
2022-04-21T22:15:01 < kakium69> but it's not the main issue I think
2022-04-21T22:15:25 < zyp> looks like you're also doing some stuff that's not allowed in C++11, switched to C++20 and more errors went away
2022-04-21T22:15:30 < zyp> still more to solve though
2022-04-21T22:16:08 < kakium69> there is stuff that is not allowed in c++11 ?
2022-04-21T22:16:34 < zyp> yeah, not sure exactly what, related to your sizeof() stuff
2022-04-21T22:16:36 < rustytaco> Eh that typedef isnt pointless, it saves writing a "struct" all over the place :P
2022-04-21T22:16:48 < zyp> rustytaco, like I said, that's a C-ism
2022-04-21T22:16:54 < kakium69> yes in C rustytaco
2022-04-21T22:17:00 < zyp> in C++ you don't have to either way
2022-04-21T22:17:35 < zyp> this is not possible: motorspeed.hpp:239:39: error: invalid use of non-static data member 'Motorspeed<pwm_t_temp, tacho_t_temp, period_t_temp, interval_t_temp, rpm_t_temp, feedback_t_temp>::c'
2022-04-21T22:17:39 < zyp> 239 | volatile period_t tacho_timer_period[c.tacho_timer_periods]; //Array to store periods between input captures.
2022-04-21T22:17:42 < zyp> | ^
2022-04-21T22:18:06 < kakium69> that's the problem?
2022-04-21T22:18:43 < kakium69> I need to dynamically allocate that?
2022-04-21T22:18:54 < zyp> a const is initialized in the constructor, you can't have an array with size depending on a constructor variable
2022-04-21T22:19:33 < zyp> remember: array size affects object size, and object size must be fixed for a given object type
2022-04-21T22:19:43 < kakium69> :o
2022-04-21T22:19:55 < zyp> if you want to vary it, you'll have to use a template argument for it
2022-04-21T22:20:02 < kakium69> okay
2022-04-21T22:20:38 < kakium69> there is no tricks just template tacho_timer_periods?
2022-04-21T22:20:57 < zyp> pretty sure all the static_asserts in the constructor are pointless too
2022-04-21T22:21:01 < zyp> but anyway
2022-04-21T22:21:16 < zyp> the first problem is that you're trying to use types before defining them
2022-04-21T22:21:39 < zyp> so the first thing I did was rearrange those so the definitions comes before the use
2022-04-21T22:22:33 < kakium69> did you add another public: ?
2022-04-21T22:22:39 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-21T22:23:54 < kakium69> I thought c++ didn't care as long stuff was inside a class
2022-04-21T22:24:17 < zyp> not sure why you thought that
2022-04-21T22:30:20 < kakium69> I'm building default version of c++
2022-04-21T22:30:42 < kakium69> I think it's c++17
2022-04-21T22:30:59 < kakium69> can I make my sizeof things to work?
2022-04-21T22:31:40 < zyp> yeah, just pass -std=c++20 :)
2022-04-21T22:33:40 < zyp> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0634r3.html
2022-04-21T22:34:21 < zyp> the old solution is apparently to stuff «typename» in front of the expression
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2022-04-21T22:35:59 < kakium69> to typetosize.hpp?
2022-04-21T22:36:06 < zyp> no
2022-04-21T22:36:13 < zyp> using blah = typename asdf;
2022-04-21T22:36:16 < zyp> I think
2022-04-21T22:37:02 < kakium69> you are so done with < c++20 :D
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2022-04-21T22:37:38 < zyp> well, yeah, I never really used 14/17
2022-04-21T22:38:04 < zyp> jumped from 11 to 20 and I'm never going back :)
2022-04-21T22:45:03 < kakium69> why you say constructor static asserts are useless?
2022-04-21T22:45:12 < kakium69> no effect?
2022-04-21T22:45:35 < zyp> because constructors aren't static :)
2022-04-21T22:46:00 < kakium69> can I constexrp it and does it change how it works?
2022-04-21T22:46:08 < zyp> idk
2022-04-21T22:46:11 < zyp> never tried
2022-04-21T22:46:25 < kakium69> i'll test
2022-04-21T22:46:37 < kakium69> refactoring..
2022-04-21T23:03:26 < kakium69> so sizeof(typename type) ?
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2022-04-21T23:16:41 < kakium69> I used to have overflow_t and sum_t in template but I figured I can calculate required sizes with sizeof of 2 other types
2022-04-21T23:22:19 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-21T23:22:21 < kakium69> Â Â Â Â Â Â using overflow_t =
2022-04-21T23:22:21 < kakium69> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â typename uint_to_size<(sizeof(period_t) - sizeof(tacho_t))>::type;
2022-04-21T23:22:25 < kakium69> like this?
2022-04-21T23:28:22 < kakium69> interesting
2022-04-21T23:28:37 < kakium69> whatever 14 more errors to go
2022-04-21T23:29:09 < karlp> huh, TIL about corebai, drop in pin compat with fx2 :)
2022-04-21T23:29:34 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-21T23:29:41 < kakium69> link now
2022-04-21T23:34:48 < karlp> http://corebai.com/en/UploadFiles/20211203/100008155.pdf from http://sigrok.org/wiki/Hantek_6022BL
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2022-04-21T23:38:52 < kakium69> is it a clone?
2022-04-21T23:40:51 < karlp> not the rabbit hole I'm looking for.
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2022-04-21T23:41:23 < qyx> is eLua dead?
2022-04-21T23:41:25 < kakium69> zyp: how do I test constants_t parameters compile time?
2022-04-21T23:41:35 < qyx> embLua looks good
2022-04-21T23:41:37 < kakium69> preprocessor like I have always done it?
2022-04-21T23:41:38 < zyp> make them compile time constants?
2022-04-21T23:41:45 < qyx> at least somewhat more recent
2022-04-21T23:41:51 < kakium69> aah
2022-04-21T23:42:03 < kakium69> all of them inside constants_t?
2022-04-21T23:42:26 < kakium69> me dumdum
2022-04-21T23:43:50 < kakium69> it's not working
2022-04-21T23:47:09 < kakium69> error: ‘this’ is not a constant expression
2022-04-21T23:47:29 < kakium69> so there is hidden this
2022-04-21T23:48:11 < kakium69> wait I might need to make pointer to instance const
--- Day changed pe huhti 22 2022
2022-04-22T00:00:18 < kakium69> okay now all errors are in constructor
2022-04-22T00:00:36 < kakium69> all errors left*
2022-04-22T00:16:53 < kakium69> why doesn't prmConstants.something instead of c.something doesn't work in static_assert
2022-04-22T00:24:07 < karlp> whee, implementing 16550 uartss....
2022-04-22T00:28:13 < kakium69> ah me dumdum again.. template is solution for everything aint that right zyp?
2022-04-22T00:30:04 < kakium69> just when I refactored c.tacho_number_of_periods out of my code
2022-04-22T00:30:31 < kakium69> I need to put it back in there and get the whole constants come throught template
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2022-04-22T00:51:42 < kakium69> damn.. it's impossibry because of constants_t depends on template types and other types in class
2022-04-22T00:51:58 < kakium69> unless I have like class inside class and template inside template thing
2022-04-22T00:52:59 < karlp> zyp: you sitting on some laks uart init code? I've never needed such primitive shit before :)
2022-04-22T00:53:14 < karlp> I'm guessing you were using it recently, as you added shit to the stm32_uart.h file :)
2022-04-22T00:53:34 * karlp loads up some locm3 shits for reference ot do this by hand again
2022-04-22T00:54:56 < zyp> yeah, sure
2022-04-22T00:56:09 < zyp> karlp, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/rUu1b
2022-04-22T00:57:09 < zyp> that's uart on a 54 MHz bus running at 1.8Mbaud
2022-04-22T00:57:20 < kakium69> zyp: can you imagine way of 2phased template for this class? first typenames then constant_t
2022-04-22T00:57:47 < karlp> heh, I just pulled out all the pieces from another libopencm3 project, and came to much the same thing, "oh, it's just these little bits..." :)
2022-04-22T00:58:09 < karlp> now, what is the reset pclkc for this usart on v307?....
2022-04-22T00:58:22 < zyp> karlp, if you want you can have my interrupt driven async queue as well :)
2022-04-22T00:59:39 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/DqNfs
2022-04-22T01:00:37 < zyp> these are building blocks going into laks eventually
2022-04-22T01:00:46 < karlp> "interrupt_ctl" ?
2022-04-22T01:01:17 < karlp> woo, no, not going tl ook at your queue shit, still kinda thinking of just running freertos...
2022-04-22T01:01:22 < zyp> that's an alias for NVIC
2022-04-22T01:01:44 < zyp> or CLIC if you build for gd32v :)
2022-04-22T01:01:44 < karlp> what's the c++ way of doing #define interrupt_ctl NVIC ?
2022-04-22T01:02:27 < karlp> your queues look neat, and probably more optimized than anything else I'd do, but not needing that right now.
2022-04-22T01:02:37 < karlp> going to a) verify tx on this,
2022-04-22T01:02:59 < karlp> b1) sort out the freertos port that mounriver has provided,
2022-04-22T01:03:18 < karlp> or b2) 16550 uart init shits for tx on the ch58x,
2022-04-22T01:03:37 < karlp> b3 is sort ouf / verify how pfic/clic are related or identical and try out interrupts :)
2022-04-22T01:04:34 < zyp> wouldn't say it's all that optimized yet, but it's neat
2022-04-22T01:09:47 < kakium69> zyp: can I do 2layer template?
2022-04-22T01:09:59 < zyp> idk, can you?
2022-04-22T01:10:06 < zyp> I'm going to bed, good luck :)
2022-04-22T01:10:12 < kakium69> thx
2022-04-22T01:21:01 < karlp> aight, tx works on v307. when you remember that it's v1 uart, nbot v2 uart...
2022-04-22T01:23:51 < karlp> hrm, gonna need to sort out interrupts I guess really...
2022-04-22T01:24:00 < karlp> should probably do that before I go to the other board...
2022-04-22T01:24:11 < karlp> will need that before I can doo freertos porting anyway
2022-04-22T01:34:44 < kakium69> https://youtu.be/NNl7GQFTULU?t=13 video of me trying to nest classes and do 2 phase template that way
2022-04-22T01:35:13 < kakium69> orange shirt guy is zyp
2022-04-22T01:35:57 < karlp> zyp: ifyou're still awake, gd32v has "clic" which is "riscv ~standard" right, and not at all like nvic?
2022-04-22T01:36:21 < karlp> by all accounts, the ch32v stuff, "pfic" is just "nvic with a differentname"
2022-04-22T01:41:32 < karlp> #define NVIC PFIC
2022-04-22T01:41:35 < karlp> yup :)
2022-04-22T01:41:39 < karlp> ok. cute...
2022-04-22T02:09:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1517275595389820929
2022-04-22T02:15:53 < karlp> hrm, polled RX works, irqs don't :)
2022-04-22T02:15:58 < karlp> guess it's not _entirely_ nvic,
2022-04-22T02:16:44 < karlp> though I suspect this is now linker table not doing what it should do, "zyp" (me) is probably assuming the wrong thing here for rsicv vs cortex
2022-04-22T02:34:24 < karlp> hrm, nvic bits are all still zero...
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2022-04-22T03:15:19 < karlp> zyp: I _think_ I need shit like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/f1bse
2022-04-22T03:15:31 < karlp> that at least makes the vector table appear correct for me,
2022-04-22T03:15:40 < karlp> still don't get any interrupts though
2022-04-22T03:16:22 < karlp> clearly that would break any cortex-m though...
2022-04-22T03:16:35 < karlp> at least the 16/12 switch, the irq|min is probably actually ok...
2022-04-22T03:17:17 < karlp> I think I'm going to have to load up a cortex-m at the same time to peer at what nvic bits really get set when.
2022-04-22T03:17:37 < karlp> (gdb) p /x *$mmio_ptr(NVIC)
2022-04-22T03:17:38 < karlp> $29 = {ISER = {0x0 <repeats 32 times>}, ICER = {0x0 <repeats 32 times>}, ISPR = {0x0 <repeats 32 times>}, ICPR = {0x0 <repeats 32 times>},
2022-04-22T03:17:40 < karlp> IABR = {0x0 <repeats 64 times>}, IPR = {0x0 <repeats 2816 times>}, STIR = 0x0}
2022-04-22T03:17:46 < karlp> still looks totallllllly bogus for "enabled" interrupts.
2022-04-22T03:18:06 < karlp> even though some magic bits earlier have the desired bit set.
2022-04-22T03:18:12 < karlp> anywya, out of time I guess for today...
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2022-04-22T11:21:11 < zyp> karlp, CLIC is kinda like NVIC, but not entirely
2022-04-22T11:21:27 < zyp> and there's CLIC and ECLIC and bullshit :)
2022-04-22T11:22:06 < zyp> and also PLIC
2022-04-22T11:22:09 < zyp> and shit can coexist
2022-04-22T11:30:54 < zyp> looking at PFIC spec, register interface doesn't look compatible to NVIC
2022-04-22T11:45:12 < karlp> it's.... ~same from 0xe000e100, but has a completely different space from ...e000 up to e100.
2022-04-22T11:45:29 < karlp> going to try some vendor built shit tonight see what I'm doing wrong.
2022-04-22T11:48:33 < zyp> if I've got time, I'll see if I can bring up ch569 tonight
2022-04-22T11:48:41 < zyp> what are you using for debug access?
2022-04-22T11:49:22 < karlp> jumper wires from my v307board,
2022-04-22T11:49:24 < karlp> kinda sucky.
2022-04-22T11:50:05 < karlp> I want to get interrupts workign on v307, then I'm moving the ch58x, which is clearly their old 8bit periphs from their 8051 parts.
2022-04-22T11:50:22 < karlp> ch569 is what, the usb3 thing?
2022-04-22T11:50:25 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-22T11:50:44 < zyp> more interesting to me than wireless :)
2022-04-22T11:51:14 < karlp> trains and roundabouts :)
2022-04-22T11:52:13 < zyp> huh?
2022-04-22T11:53:55 < karlp> nvm, just and old idiom,
2022-04-22T11:54:07 < karlp> so ch569 has pfic too...
2022-04-22T11:54:30 < zyp> yeah, I think it's pretty similar apart from peripheral differences
2022-04-22T11:55:30 < karlp> ahha, chineze datasheet says what KEY1 is for :) controlling this nest control and hw stacking
2022-04-22T11:55:42 < karlp> yeah, the VFT shit is "extra" vs nvic,
2022-04-22T11:55:44 < karlp> anyway, that's tonight...
2022-04-22T11:55:50 < karlp> today is other stuff.
2022-04-22T11:56:34 < karlp> in other news, I saw a car today with the numberplate "FRAM"
2022-04-22T11:57:10 < karlp> and I thought, neat, bit odd, I wonder where they work or how they're related to that, didn't thinkg there'd be anything that big in it here...
2022-04-22T11:57:20 < karlp> of course, a few seconds later, I remembered that it's a local sports team :)
2022-04-22T11:58:17 < zyp> «that» being ferroelectric memory?
2022-04-22T11:59:27 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euJgtLcWWyo
2022-04-22T12:08:46 < karlp> yeah, I was thinking of the ram
2022-04-22T12:08:49 < karlp> "The crystal oscillator should be placed far from the clock pin. The recommended gap is 2.7 mm"
2022-04-22T12:08:58 < karlp> not really sure that counts as far in any sense of the word....
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2022-04-22T13:25:24 < kakium69> c++ is quite a slippery slope
2022-04-22T13:25:47 < kakium69> where to draw the line with integration
2022-04-22T13:25:54 < srk> lol :D
2022-04-22T13:26:32 < kakium69> just one more abstraction
2022-04-22T13:27:05 < srk> OOP in a nutshell
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2022-04-22T13:39:33 < kakium69> srk: you c++ pro?
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2022-04-22T13:51:32 < srk> kakium69: no, wannabe haskell pro
2022-04-22T13:53:40 < srk> kakium69: with ivory, I'm using haskell as a meta language / safe abstraction on top of C so I don't need advanced features of C++, the type system is already powerful enough, probably more :)
2022-04-22T14:00:12 < Steffanx> Heh long time since I've seen you mention Haksell :D
2022-04-22T14:18:27 < srk> you missed that Tesla is using Haskell recently :D (to generate C for their cans)
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2022-04-22T15:27:59 < benishor> https://youtu.be/vpf5JssBNSw
2022-04-22T15:40:54 < karlp> I was like, this is odd.... but it's too new.... then I realised I saw the vgideo of them making the box they put on top at the end...
2022-04-22T15:41:04 < jpa-> does someone know what "-v please" means? in a github issue
2022-04-22T15:41:17 < jpa-> .. ah, verbose, of course
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2022-04-22T16:37:04 < kakium69> zyp: apparently it's just microchip(atmel) studio that has gcc 5.4 for AVR
2022-04-22T16:38:14 < kakium69> lagging behind
2022-04-22T16:41:05 < kakium69> lets see if I start using c++20 "sudo apt install gcc-avr"
2022-04-22T16:42:03 < kakium69> Setting up gcc-avr (1:5.4.0+Atmel3.6.2-1+b1)
2022-04-22T16:43:01 < kakium69> wtf internets have windows gcc builds for avr up to version 11.1.0
2022-04-22T16:53:27 < kakium69> 11 would do though it has all the c++20 features I would need
2022-04-22T16:54:47 < mawk> build it yourself
2022-04-22T16:54:51 < mawk> it's a refreshing experience
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2022-04-22T16:58:34 < kakium69> sure
2022-04-22T16:59:00 < kakium69> if I figure where the source lives
2022-04-22T17:02:21 < kakium69> is there some sort of official releases etc.
2022-04-22T17:03:28 < kakium69> arduino ide seems to come with 7.3.0
2022-04-22T17:03:47 < kakium69> bbl>
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2022-04-22T17:38:27 < karlp> "use bluez via dbus so you can still use other bt tools" "umm, this is not showing me all my data!"
2022-04-22T17:39:17 * karlp turns off the bluetooth headphones ad gets _much_ more data ...
2022-04-22T17:39:50 < karlp> still dropping more than I would like honestly....
2022-04-22T17:40:22 < karlp> just as well no-one else is in today, so I can have the music without headphones :)
2022-04-22T17:53:56 < zyp> haha
2022-04-22T17:57:14 < karlp> should really get a second dongle I guess.
2022-04-22T17:58:39 < qyx> and a second 2.4 GHz
2022-04-22T17:59:48 < karlp> no no, it's magic right? :)
2022-04-22T18:00:09 < karlp> a second HCI using just LE vs one trying to both scan LE _and_ do a2dp streaming....
2022-04-22T18:00:23 < karlp> feels funny not wearing headphones.
2022-04-22T18:20:06 < kakium69> never tried it
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2022-04-22T18:48:44 < kakium69> https://github.com/embecosm/gso2 anyone used "gnu superoptimizer" ?
2022-04-22T19:08:07 < karlp> dude, no commits for 7 years
2022-04-22T19:08:47 < kakium69> yeah it might be dead project
2022-04-22T19:12:58 < karlp> hrm, ok, can stream data to my phone via bt notifications, but my desktop just... stops after about 2 seconds...
2022-04-22T19:13:07 * karlp tries turning up the debug some more...
2022-04-22T19:32:23 < karlp> ok, just need to lurn to drive asyncio properly...
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2022-04-22T20:06:15 < zyp> karlp, got some time to poke at ch569 now, just need to figure out how to get a debugger hooked up
2022-04-22T20:24:27 < benishor> I received a dream offer from amazon
2022-04-22T20:24:31 < benishor> and I quote:
2022-04-22T20:24:35 < benishor> Today we are contacting you regarding a paid survey opportunity that will help Amazon selling partners improve their products and services.
2022-04-22T20:24:36 < benishor> To that end, we are looking for customers who may have viewed or bought programming language guides in Amazon's online store. Those who complete a 5-7 minute survey to share their opinions on this topic may be eligible to receive a $3 Amazon Gift Card.* However, this survey is active for a limited time and Gift Cards can only be offered to a limited number of respondents, so please respond by April 24, 2022.
2022-04-22T20:25:33 < kakium69> whole 3bucks
2022-04-22T20:26:20 < benishor> IF I'm lucky
2022-04-22T20:26:37 < benishor> so I would better jump right in and waste my time on a shitty survey
2022-04-22T20:27:01 < benishor> fuck you, greedy old bezos
2022-04-22T20:28:48 < karlp> zyp: I won't be looking at it for a few hours yet, at least 3...
2022-04-22T20:29:00 < karlp> zyp: what debugger hardware do yo uhave?
2022-04-22T20:29:27 < zyp> was hoping I could just hook it up to a ftdi or something
2022-04-22T20:29:29 < karlp> I've only got debugging via the binary openocd with it's wch-link,
2022-04-22T20:29:35 < zyp> but I don't understand how the interface works
2022-04-22T20:29:49 < zyp> I don't have a wch-link
2022-04-22T20:29:57 < karlp> aiui, it's "swd" but "not arm" and I'm not sure a cmsis-dap can talk to it.
2022-04-22T20:30:03 < karlp> it's.... not well documented.
2022-04-22T20:30:29 < karlp> bright side, you _can_ use ch55x tool from https://github.com/MarsTechHAN/ch552tool with the boot0 pin...
2022-04-22T20:30:47 < karlp> you'll probably need either PR 21 or PR 22 from that repo to add your particular board though...
2022-04-22T20:30:52 < zyp> right, bringing up a chip from scratch without a debugger, that sounds fun :)
2022-04-22T20:30:54 < karlp> as you're using yet another version...
2022-04-22T20:31:22 < karlp> yeah, it's part of the reason I got one of the ch32v307 baords, it has one onboard, and can be used for external targets, much like a st disco board.
2022-04-22T20:32:11 < zyp> as far as I can see there's nothing swd-ish on this thing
2022-04-22T20:32:45 < zyp> there's a 2x4 header labelled ISP with SPI-like naming
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2022-04-22T20:55:15 < mawk> I received anti Le Pen propaganda on the official mailing list of french citizens living abroad
2022-04-22T20:55:29 < mawk> that seems like an abuse of state resources
2022-04-22T21:05:55 < Steffanx> OK. Sue them
2022-04-22T21:08:44 < josuah> propaganda is how you become president
2022-04-22T21:08:57 < josuah> otherwise, millions would not be wasted on presidential campains
2022-04-22T21:09:24 < catphish> what is "french citizens living abroad"?
2022-04-22T21:09:44 < Steffanx> It's mawks
2022-04-22T21:09:59 < catphish> Assemblée des Français de l'étranger?
2022-04-22T21:10:53 < Steffanx> What about the workshop day catphish ?
2022-04-22T21:11:55 < catphish> Steffanx: yesterday was a workshop disaster
2022-04-22T21:12:01 < Steffanx> ohno
2022-04-22T21:12:01 < kakium69> Le Pen doesnt mind using elbow tactics?
2022-04-22T21:12:15 < kakium69> catphish ?
2022-04-22T21:12:23 < Steffanx> Did you flood it?
2022-04-22T21:12:29 < catphish> lol not quite so bad
2022-04-22T21:12:42 < kakium69> you neede to visit ER
2022-04-22T21:12:44 < kakium69> ?
2022-04-22T21:13:29 < catphish> Steffanx: i ordered some 20mm x 10mm steel box section to clamp my batteries into the box with, yesterday i went to the workshop, having had only 4 hours sleep, the steel was too flexible for the task, i gave up, went home, went to sleeo
2022-04-22T21:13:32 < catphish> *sleep
2022-04-22T21:14:17 < zyp> that's the disaster?
2022-04-22T21:14:20 < Steffanx> Oooh. If that's all ;)
2022-04-22T21:14:25 < kakium69> got nothing done zyp
2022-04-22T21:14:31 < Steffanx> Shit happens
2022-04-22T21:14:35 < zyp> I'm waiting for you to say it was too flexible and shorted out the batteries
2022-04-22T21:15:14 < Steffanx> Then shit burned down and got flooded by fire fighter?
2022-04-22T21:15:33 < zyp> yeah, that sounds more like a disaster
2022-04-22T21:15:36 < catphish> okay, perhaps not a disaster, just a colossal waste of a day
2022-04-22T21:15:55 < Steffanx> And after he got to party with Boris Johnson
2022-04-22T21:16:09 < catphish> on the plus side, i ordered some more appropriate steel and got some proper sleep
2022-04-22T21:17:53 < Steffanx> 🙌
2022-04-22T21:18:06 < catphish> one thing i did achieve was to crimp some wire into some sockets, it wasn't hard but it made me happy, these connectors really are amazing https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/18/1/amph_s_a0002901644_1-2261256.pdf
2022-04-22T21:18:39 < catphish> i'm using 6mm variety for my charger and 4mm variety for my heater
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2022-04-22T21:38:56 < kakium69> movie recomds?
2022-04-22T21:42:39 < catphish> Triangle (2009)
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2022-04-22T21:47:50 < kakium69> I feel like I have seen that
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2022-04-22T22:50:35 < Steffanx> The Batman (2022)
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2022-04-22T23:24:23 < catphish> i'm currently binge watching TNG
2022-04-22T23:24:42 < catphish> i do this a little too often
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2022-04-22T23:57:24 < Steffanx> TNG as in Star trek, catphish ?
2022-04-22T23:59:57 < ventYl> probably
--- Day changed la huhti 23 2022
2022-04-23T00:00:20 * rustytaco mumbles damn nerds and goes back to editing linker script
2022-04-23T00:00:46 < ventYl> there will be some juicy stuff in that linker script, for sure
2022-04-23T00:02:52 < zyp> any FOC pros around?
2022-04-23T00:04:40 < Steffanx> The finnish guy is pro enough. I'm sure
2022-04-23T00:04:43 < zyp> I'm trying to understand how it works, and I kinda get how the park/clarke transforms turn a three component current vector plus motor angle into the dq vector representing torque and «flux linkage»
2022-04-23T00:05:07 < zyp> what I don't understand is exactly what this flux stuff represents, and what purpose controlling it has
2022-04-23T00:12:11 < catphish> Steffanx: yes
2022-04-23T00:12:50 < catphish> i enjoy star trek far too much to be considered a functional member of society
2022-04-23T00:13:06 < ventYl> meh, I enjoyed Babylon 5 more
2022-04-23T00:13:23 < ventYl> ST doesn't bear much more than random story of each episode
2022-04-23T00:15:04 < zyp> okay, I read an article about «field weakening» which I understand as you only really care about the flux component if you wanna do some tricks to trade torque for a higher max speed
2022-04-23T00:21:41 < catphish> ventYl: i enjoy both TNG (story per episode) and DS9 (longer storylines)
2022-04-23T00:22:01 < catphish> ventYl: i have never watched B5 but perhaps i should
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2022-04-23T00:25:43 < karlp> yeah, ok, I've completely misunderstood how vectors are meant to work on this riscv shits :)
2022-04-23T00:26:02 < karlp> have a ~same implementation test app using vendor lib, totallllllly different binary structure :)
2022-04-23T00:26:10 < karlp> surprised my stuff works at all :)
2022-04-23T00:29:18 < kakium69> ##ev32
2022-04-23T00:30:39 < karlp> ho boi, startup pretty different too.
2022-04-23T00:33:12 < karlp> hardware stack enable sounds like it might be important...
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2022-04-23T01:03:33 < karlp> zyp: so, um, did you ever do _any_ interrupts on riscv? gd32v or anything?
2022-04-23T01:03:47 < karlp> I'm not sure how your startup could work...
2022-04-23T01:18:48 < karlp> ok, I've learnt a lot more about riscv tonight :)
2022-04-23T01:19:03 < ventYl> much trash?
2022-04-23T01:24:25 < catphish> riscv is offtopic here.
2022-04-23T01:24:57 < catphish> only arm instructions are allowed in stm32-land
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2022-04-23T02:16:59 < ventYl> heh, i have accidentally found a bug in locm3 :)
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2022-04-23T03:20:46 < upgrdman> anyone know if LTspice has any way to simulate something like a MCU/FPGA driving the transistors of a SMPS? e.g. a way to simulate pseudocode like: once_per_millisecond { read_some_net_voltages_and_do_some_math; set_pwm_duty_cycle_to_some_value;}
2022-04-23T03:21:26 < upgrdman> i want to simulate an MCU doing a PID control loop, which drives some MOSFET gates
2022-04-23T03:22:04 < upgrdman> and i want to see how dicking with my PID settings affect the output voltage of the SMPS
2022-04-23T03:27:26 < ventYl> wouldn't it be possible to define new (pseudo-)part which does exactly this?
2022-04-23T03:27:55 < upgrdman> i hope so, but how?
2022-04-23T03:30:14 < upgrdman> i know how to make parts out of passives/diodes/transistors/etc, but i don't know if it's possible to define it's behavior algorithmically
2022-04-23T03:32:46 < ventYl> well, in theory, you should be able to combine several intrinsic parts to model analog sub-circuit.
2022-04-23T03:32:46 < ventYl> but I am not sure if ltspice won't explode, if you do that
2022-04-23T03:33:02 < ventYl> also... sleep
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2022-04-23T11:09:34 < zyp> karlp, yes, interrupts work on gd32v
2022-04-23T11:11:39 < zyp> CLIC also has some auto stacking/dispatch support, but I don't use that, so everything goes through the handler in dispatch_clic.cpp
2022-04-23T11:14:23 < zyp> and also, with CLIC the vector table is grabbed from the mtvec register, so it doesn't have to be at start of flash, what's at start of flash is the reset handler
2022-04-23T11:14:41 < zyp> or rather the trampoline
2022-04-23T11:15:07 < zyp> if PFIC works like NVIC, it shouldn't need the trampoline
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2022-04-23T18:42:11 < srk> https://github.blog/2022-04-23-zx-spectrum-40-year-anniversary/
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2022-04-23T23:46:20 < kakium69> morgon
2022-04-23T23:46:35 < Steffanx> Gooday sir kakium69
2022-04-23T23:46:42 < catphish> morning
2022-04-23T23:46:50 < Steffanx> How was farmingday?
2022-04-23T23:50:55 < kakium69> I greased myself
2022-04-23T23:50:56 < catphish> who was farming?
2022-04-23T23:51:10 < catphish> oh kakium69, sounds exciting
2022-04-23T23:51:29 < kakium69> in workshop
2022-04-23T23:52:05 < kakium69> naa just seasonal tyra changes and fixing brakes etc.
2022-04-23T23:52:11 < kakium69> tyre
2022-04-23T23:57:35 < Steffanx> Tyres.
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2022-04-23T23:58:55 < Steffanx> I hate cars. Mine is/was complaining about a low motor oil pressure, but nothing to see.
2022-04-23T23:59:28 < kakium69> !!
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2022-04-23T23:59:32 < kakium69> low pressure?
2022-04-23T23:59:36 < Steffanx> Yep.
2022-04-23T23:59:43 < kakium69> not quantitty
2022-04-23T23:59:46 < Steffanx> Nope.
2022-04-23T23:59:56 < kakium69> damn brah
--- Day changed su huhti 24 2022
2022-04-24T00:00:02 < kakium69> rip your car
2022-04-24T00:00:33 < Steffanx> Nah, the sensor has been replaced, nothing. Now the oil filter and it was ok last time I used my car.
2022-04-24T00:00:38 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-24T00:00:40 < catphish> Steffanx: oil pressure sensors fail a lot
2022-04-24T00:00:42 < Steffanx> But.. it doesn't always complain
2022-04-24T00:00:54 < kakium69> same thing I have replaced sensor once too
2022-04-24T00:01:08 < Steffanx> And when it complains its directly after starting or within a minute.
2022-04-24T00:01:16 < catphish> if the seneor's replaced and it still complain, that's bad time
2022-04-24T00:01:16 < kakium69> hey I bought a oil pressure gauge set
2022-04-24T00:01:18 < Steffanx> After that it's all fine
2022-04-24T00:01:27 < kakium69> I should see if my moped has oil pressure
2022-04-24T00:01:41 < kakium69> nevermind the car
2022-04-24T00:01:52 < kakium69> I'm suprised it has not seized yet
2022-04-24T00:01:54 < catphish> i'm kinda worried about my tesla not having an oil pressure sensor
2022-04-24T00:02:02 < Steffanx> We'll see what replacing the filter did. Google says Fiat is sometimes a bit bitchy about oil filters
2022-04-24T00:02:29 < catphish> maybe one day i find a way to add one
2022-04-24T00:03:33 < Steffanx> Sucks pressure sensor is more like an "on/off" switch. Would be nice to see and record the pressure. (Without extra hw)
2022-04-24T00:03:48 < kakium69> too much info
2022-04-24T00:04:07 < Steffanx> Nah
2022-04-24T00:04:08 < kakium69> car owner would be neurotic about oil pressure
2022-04-24T00:04:24 < Steffanx> Just dump it on the CAN bus
2022-04-24T00:05:43 < catphish> plenty of cars have oil pressure *dial*
2022-04-24T00:05:51 < Steffanx> Yeah
2022-04-24T00:05:59 < catphish> i'd need that since oil pressure will be zero then it's not moving
2022-04-24T00:14:05 < kakium69> I think you can get relative oil flow rate with coolant temp and calculated loss in motor
2022-04-24T00:14:16 < kakium69> and ofc motor temp sensor
2022-04-24T00:15:33 < kakium69> assuming coolant flow rate is constant
2022-04-24T00:20:49 < kakium69> throw temperature derivate in to that math and it should trip in no time if no oil flow
2022-04-24T00:37:51 < kakium69> https://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html "Runs on any AVR microcontroller with at least 2 kB of Flash memory, 128 bytes RAM and a clock rate of at least 12 MHz"
2022-04-24T00:37:57 < kakium69> waas
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2022-04-24T00:42:23 < Steffanx> Close it and never look at it again kakium69
2022-04-24T00:42:41 < kakium69> I want to see how could it possibly work
2022-04-24T00:44:32 < karlp> usb-ls baby!
2022-04-24T00:45:04 < kakium69> is that doing 1.5?
2022-04-24T00:45:10 < kakium69> or 11?
2022-04-24T00:47:05 < kakium69> hmm they sell PIDs for that
2022-04-24T00:47:16 < kakium69> maybe for their VID
2022-04-24T00:52:21 < zyp> hmm, G4 timers have a slightly different register map from earlier
2022-04-24T00:52:46 < qyx> do they?
2022-04-24T00:52:52 < qyx> I didn't notice
2022-04-24T00:52:56 < qyx> using libopencmš though
2022-04-24T00:53:34 < catphish> that V-USB seems impressively efficient
2022-04-24T00:53:44 < zyp> first 18 registers are identical (to and including BDTR)
2022-04-24T00:53:52 < zyp> and the following ones are different
2022-04-24T00:54:04 < zyp> there's a CCR5 and CCR6
2022-04-24T00:56:17 < zyp> still only four TIMxCHy pins, but channel 5 and 6 can be used for internal events
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2022-04-24T01:16:18 < zyp> hmr
2022-04-24T01:16:30 < zyp> setting TIM1.CR1 = 1 doesn't make it count
2022-04-24T01:16:41 < zyp> TIM2.CR1 = 1 works
2022-04-24T01:17:08 < zyp> it shouldn't be the break logic, that only disables OC outputs
2022-04-24T01:17:25 < zyp> (and setting MOE=1 still doesn't make it count)
2022-04-24T01:22:38 < zyp> ah
2022-04-24T01:23:22 < zyp> original firmware was apparently setting DBGMCU_APB2FZR.DBG_TIM1_STOP, and that's only cleared by POR, not system reset
2022-04-24T01:29:42 < kakium69> warning: ‘++’ expression of ‘volatile’-qualified type is deprecated
2022-04-24T01:29:58 < zyp> yup
2022-04-24T01:30:08 < kakium69> it's not effective?
2022-04-24T01:30:21 < zyp> it still works, but it's deprecated
2022-04-24T01:30:35 < kakium69> what should I do?
2022-04-24T01:30:44 < kakium69> volatile=volatile+1; ?
2022-04-24T01:30:46 < zyp> you're now supposed to type out «cocks = cocks + 1» rather than «cocks++»
2022-04-24T01:30:58 < ventYl> it is RMW, so it fundamentally clashes with volatility
2022-04-24T01:30:58 < ventYl> unless your architecture has atomic increment
2022-04-24T01:31:03 < zyp> yep
2022-04-24T01:31:05 < kakium69> thanks=thanks+1;
2022-04-24T01:31:25 < zyp> welcome to C=C+1
2022-04-24T01:33:05 < kakium69> error: the value of ‘motorspeed_test_constants’ is not usable in a constant expression
2022-04-24T01:33:05 < kakium69> Â Â 67 | class Motorspeed_Test_Derived : public Motorspeed_Types_Test::Motorspeed<motorspeed_test_constants>{
2022-04-24T01:33:31 < kakium69> I need to constexpr instead of const what I feed in that template?
2022-04-24T01:35:13 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-24T01:35:19 < kakium69> dreams come true
2022-04-24T01:35:23 < kakium69> I have 1 error left
2022-04-24T01:35:31 < kakium69> but I need to go to peee
2022-04-24T01:35:32 < kakium69> p
2022-04-24T01:37:59 < ventYl> STM32Cube repositories on github are down due to DMCA takedown?
2022-04-24T01:39:56 < ventYl> ah, that's some kind of fork
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2022-04-24T01:49:09 < kakium69> error: ‘callback_test’ is not a valid template argument of type ... because ‘callback_test’ is not a variable
2022-04-24T01:49:36 < kakium69> .controller_callback = &callback_test,
2022-04-24T01:50:45 < kakium69> zyp: should function pointer pass through template?
2022-04-24T01:51:26 < zyp> who knows
2022-04-24T01:59:41 < kakium69> it's fine with pointers though
2022-04-24T01:59:54 < kakium69> maybe I didn't do that pointer correctly
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2022-04-24T02:24:56 < kakium69> hmm when using std stuff inside static_assert it might need this "bool operator"
2022-04-24T02:26:17 < kakium69> although my cv-qualifier checks did work
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2022-04-24T02:28:47 < kakium69> wait I might have just a plain old logical error
2022-04-24T02:32:00 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AzqDt.mp4 cute little board
2022-04-24T02:32:38 < zyp> not doing FOC just yet, hacked up some shitty open loop 6step
2022-04-24T02:33:00 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/WkZiS
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2022-04-24T02:57:26 < kakium69> okay progress
2022-04-24T02:57:47 < kakium69> linker didn't like what I'm doin
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2022-04-24T08:57:53 < jadew> I installed ubuntu... I think gnome developers have a mental condition
2022-04-24T08:58:04 < jadew> ubuntu ones too
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2022-04-24T09:58:35 < ventYl> what condition?
2022-04-24T09:59:51 < jadew> ventYl, probably retardation of some sort
2022-04-24T10:00:32 < jadew> the top bar is mainly useless but you can't easily hide it
2022-04-24T10:00:52 < jadew> if you hide it, you don't have a clock anymore, or a notification panel
2022-04-24T10:01:10 < jadew> the dock bar can't have them, it has no actual customization
2022-04-24T10:01:37 < jadew> the shortcut to toggle the application grid does this:
2022-04-24T10:01:43 < jadew> 1) toggle the application grid.
2022-04-24T10:01:53 < ventYl> isn't this retardation caused by gnome?
2022-04-24T10:02:07 < jadew> when you press it again: 2) it toggles the overview (instead of exiting the application grid).
2022-04-24T10:02:19 < jadew> 3) toggles the application grid again into view
2022-04-24T10:02:27 < jadew> 4) repeat to infinity.
2022-04-24T10:02:46 < jadew> hitting escape to exit this mess, first toggles the overview into view, then a second escape exits
2022-04-24T10:02:49 < jadew> it's fucking nuts
2022-04-24T10:03:08 < jadew> ventYl, not entirely, but yes, gnome has its share
2022-04-24T10:04:07 < jadew> I believe there's a bit of collaboration going on, otherwise I can't explain the similarities in how dumb they are
2022-04-24T10:04:17 < jadew> then there's the fucking nautilus file manager
2022-04-24T10:04:32 < jadew> the default file manager on my phone has more functionality
2022-04-24T10:04:52 < jadew> they removed all the menus, didn't preserve much of the functionality
2022-04-24T10:05:20 < jadew> unmounted drives don't show in the side panel and there's no way to get them there (there used to be, but they removed that)
2022-04-24T10:05:32 < jadew> you can make shortcuts to them, but if you click them, they don't open
2022-04-24T10:06:27 < ventYl> well, I use ubuntu just for generating signatures on my invoices, so I spend like 15 minutes a month in that VM
2022-04-24T10:06:38 < jadew> when you click the applications grid button, it shows the application grid, while on the other monitors it shows an overview of the workspaces, basically making ALL the displays useless while you're selecting a new app to run
2022-04-24T10:06:53 < ventYl> and last time i've seen gnome extensively, it was on redhat 7.3 or something like that
2022-04-24T10:06:59 < ventYl> redhat, not rhel
2022-04-24T10:07:24 < jadew> when it turns up, one of my monitors is always off, I have to ctrl + alt + Fsomething and then back to the GUI one to turn it on
2022-04-24T10:07:53 < jadew> I would use something else, but I intend to write some server software and the server will use ubuntu server
2022-04-24T10:08:14 < jadew> so I'm stuck with this
2022-04-24T10:08:35 < ventYl> is it gonna be a GUI application?
2022-04-24T10:08:41 < jadew> no
2022-04-24T10:08:50 < ventYl> then ssh into that box
2022-04-24T10:09:03 < jadew> too much hassle
2022-04-24T10:09:16 < ventYl> i am not sure if it is more hassle than using gnome
2022-04-24T10:09:42 < jadew> well, I got it to a good state now
2022-04-24T10:09:50 < ventYl> also, if you develop your SW on something, which is not particularly fucked up, it should run everywhere
2022-04-24T10:09:50 < jadew> I dropped the ubuntu dock
2022-04-24T10:09:58 < jadew> the panel, and the file manager
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2022-04-24T10:10:21 < ventYl> can't you simply install plasma?
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2022-04-24T10:11:12 < jadew> it's fine, I'm in a good place now
2022-04-24T10:11:28 < jadew> the only thing that's weird is that I have to do the ctrl + alt + Fx thing whenever I boot up
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2022-04-24T10:52:14 < qyx> they are starting to adopt lunices for dumb
2022-04-24T10:52:35 < qyx> in evince they removed rotate left/rotate right and added "rotate"
2022-04-24T10:53:48 < qyx> so the usual rotating workflow is "click as many times as required until your document looks upright"
2022-04-24T10:54:39 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6f35D/Screenshot_2022-04-24_09-54-24.png
2022-04-24T10:55:09 < qyx> the print button is also hillarious, I took me 5 minutes + another 5 minutes of googling to find out how to print a document
2022-04-24T10:56:39 < qyx> the whole gtk3 style is dumb tbh
2022-04-24T10:57:05 < ventYl> do what slackware did almost 20 years ago. fuck off gnome
2022-04-24T10:57:31 < rustytaco> xfce for life
2022-04-24T10:58:01 < qyx> it is using gtk2 and gtk3 and also turning unusable
2022-04-24T10:58:03 < Xogium> ratpoison ftw
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2022-04-24T11:44:32 < jadew> qyx, seems in line with the trend
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2022-04-24T14:42:57 < kakium69> hmm... jadew is not RIP :o
2022-04-24T14:43:09 < kakium69> where were you jadew?
2022-04-24T14:43:38 < kakium69> had some time off from IRC activities?
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2022-04-24T15:17:59 < zyp> jpa-, did you ever look at making use of the service/rpc parts of protobuf?
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2022-04-24T15:57:24 < mawk> grpc
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2022-04-24T15:58:36 < zyp> kinda, but no
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2022-04-24T16:02:16 < zyp> when I did my 3d printer thing, I used protobuf for comms, with a pair of Command and Response messages that are unions of the actual commands/responses: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/bBN3f
2022-04-24T16:02:52 < zyp> firmware expects a Command and replies with a Response
2022-04-24T16:04:04 < zyp> it works, but there's no relationship between the command payload and the response payload so unwrapping/wrapping the outer Command/Response messages must be done manually, and that's tedious
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2022-04-24T16:27:10 < mawk> I finally trimmed the nails of my cat
2022-04-24T16:27:13 < mawk> after an intense battle
2022-04-24T16:27:28 < mawk> at some point I saw blood on her claws, I thought oh no I cut too short I hit the blood vessels
2022-04-24T16:27:33 < mawk> but it was actually my blood
2022-04-24T16:27:41 < Steffanx> Already back in dutchland?
2022-04-24T16:27:44 < Steffanx> didnt you have to vote?
2022-04-24T16:27:59 < Steffanx> Also get a scratching pole and let the cat take care of her own nails
2022-04-24T16:28:03 < mawk> I have to vote in dutchlans
2022-04-24T16:28:14 < mawk> I'm registered on the electoral list in Den Haag
2022-04-24T16:28:15 < Steffanx> or let her outside
2022-04-24T16:28:27 < mawk> I have scratching pole already but it's not enough
2022-04-24T16:28:37 < mawk> she's too afraid to go outside
2022-04-24T16:28:41 < mawk> trimming the nails is fine for them
2022-04-24T16:28:48 < mawk> it's not like ripping the nail off
2022-04-24T16:28:50 < mawk> they grow back
2022-04-24T16:28:58 < mawk> it's just she doesn't like it a lot so she fights
2022-04-24T16:29:02 < Steffanx> sure, but the process isnt great
2022-04-24T16:29:22 < mawk> I'll wear falconery gloves next time
2022-04-24T16:30:19 < Steffanx> dont get cat scratch disease
2022-04-24T16:30:27 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/7Cf7Onm.jpeg
2022-04-24T16:30:34 < mawk> she's never been outside, no disease
2022-04-24T16:30:39 < mawk> but I disinfected anyway
2022-04-24T16:30:48 < mawk> with oyster juice
2022-04-24T16:33:48 < mawk> den haag reminds me of saint-denis in some places
2022-04-24T16:33:53 < mawk> is that normal Steffanx
2022-04-24T16:33:56 < mawk> what happened
2022-04-24T16:36:49 < Steffanx> idk. i live in a small quiet village.
2022-04-24T16:37:14 < Steffanx> and dont care much about the cities :P
2022-04-24T16:37:23 < mawk> :(
2022-04-24T16:43:40 < Steffanx> dont you like to feel home mawk?
2022-04-24T16:43:49 < mawk> yes
2022-04-24T16:43:59 < mawk> especially when my demonic ex isn't here
2022-04-24T16:44:23 < Steffanx> Why dont you let her stay in la france?
2022-04-24T16:48:23 < mawk> she's in France currently
2022-04-24T16:48:27 < mawk> but she will come back
2022-04-24T16:49:33 < Steffanx> and still jobless? does she have een uitkering?
2022-04-24T16:49:42 < Steffanx> has
2022-04-24T16:56:36 < zyp> hmm, this is weird codegen: https://godbolt.org/z/3aGhaqnT4
2022-04-24T16:57:42 < zyp> seems like all arm32 gcc versions produce roughly the same, arm64 gcc does better: https://godbolt.org/z/PK5YTxW43
2022-04-24T16:59:54 < zyp> both rv32 and rv64 gcc also does a pointless stack reservation
2022-04-24T17:08:58 < mawk> I voted
2022-04-24T17:09:35 < mawk> in the voting booth there is a trashcan for unused bulletins
2022-04-24T17:09:49 < mawk> it's not secret at all, I looked into it to deduce what people before me voted
2022-04-24T17:10:05 < mawk> if I reported it it might even void the results from this voting section
2022-04-24T17:10:19 < mawk> especially since everyone voted Macron
2022-04-24T17:11:30 < Xogium> heh, there could be way worse than Macron
2022-04-24T17:11:43 < Xogium> ulo mawk
2022-04-24T17:13:22 < mawk> yeah, like Mélenchon
2022-04-24T17:13:47 < Xogium> lolz
2022-04-24T17:14:01 < Xogium> I was thinking of that other extreme right guy
2022-04-24T17:14:04 < Xogium> I forget his name
2022-04-24T17:15:00 < Steffanx> mawk wanted to give him his vote i recall
2022-04-24T17:15:22 < Xogium> scary
2022-04-24T17:15:28 < Steffanx> he even had a pet name for him
2022-04-24T17:15:48 < Xogium> double scary
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2022-04-24T17:16:09 < Steffanx> zemzem or something
2022-04-24T17:16:18 < Xogium> hahahaha
2022-04-24T17:16:24 < mawk> Zemzem yes
2022-04-24T17:16:25 < Xogium> sounds ridiculous
2022-04-24T17:16:28 < mawk> my boy zemzem
2022-04-24T17:16:59 -!- ventYl [~ventyl@bband-dyn3.95-103-125.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2022-04-24T17:17:00 < mawk> ♥ Zemzem ♥
2022-04-24T17:17:53 < mawk> 👎ðŸ»ðŸ’” macron 💔👎ðŸ»
2022-04-24T17:18:06 < Xogium> I don't like him, probably because he's got something against imigrating folks
2022-04-24T17:18:47 < mawk> if they were immigrating elsewhere he'd had nothing against them
2022-04-24T17:18:57 < mawk> so it's not against them per se, it's against what they do
2022-04-24T17:18:58 < Xogium> yeah but but but, what about me
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2022-04-24T17:19:09 < mawk> you're the right color
2022-04-24T17:19:13 < mawk> zemzem will allow you
2022-04-24T17:19:21 < mawk> in His benevolence
2022-04-24T17:19:32 < Xogium> hahaha
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2022-04-24T19:46:56 < mawk> have you been to madurodam Steffanx ?
2022-04-24T19:46:59 < mawk> I'm in front
2022-04-24T19:47:12 < mawk> there are carps in a basin in front of it, I tried to pet them
2022-04-24T19:47:16 < mawk> but they were afraid of me
2022-04-24T19:47:26 < mawk> the water is quite warm though, I'd swim in it
2022-04-24T19:47:32 < zyp> I've been there
2022-04-24T19:47:45 < zyp> I think maybe it was Steffanx recommending it to me
2022-04-24T19:52:30 < mawk> nice
2022-04-24T20:18:47 < jpa-> zyp: no, i never found the proto2 "service" keyword particularly useful; it does handle the binding together of a request & response, but seems library support is quite sparse on all platforms
2022-04-24T20:33:27 < jadew> kakium69, working on a project
2022-04-24T20:33:54 < jadew> it keeps me busy from early morning till I go to sleep
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2022-04-24T21:12:10 < catphish> morning
2022-04-24T21:12:20 < catphish> i spent all day today making one cable... https://i.imgur.com/8OSn1sa.jpg
2022-04-24T21:13:21 < catphish> it's the complete low voltage loom for my battery box, 4 x relays, BMS, and current sensor
2022-04-24T21:14:13 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, I came to the conclusion that I'm going to have to make my own codegen for both host and device sides
2022-04-24T21:15:27 < zyp> and it seems it relies on names for method lookup rather than the number keys that everything else is using
2022-04-24T21:15:58 < zyp> but I guess I could add key as a custom option since I'll have to do my own codegen anyway
2022-04-24T21:16:51 < zyp> I looked a bit at grpc and I kinda liked the stream keyword
2022-04-24T21:18:52 < zyp> I figure I could make a rpc layer that allows concurrent async calls, and a stream response would then essentially be a subscription
2022-04-24T21:34:53 < qyx> catphish: great, you can now move to .hu, .sk or .ua and make thousands of them
2022-04-24T21:35:48 < qyx> I hope you used the thinnest wires available with the thinnest 30 V low voltage rated insulation as is the current trend
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2022-04-24T21:42:00 < Steffanx> ive never been there mawk
2022-04-24T21:58:53 < catphish> qyx: i suspect the wire i used was quite expensive, idk, i stoe it
2022-04-24T21:58:56 < catphish> *stole
2022-04-24T22:15:41 < kakium69> catphish: doesn't look kosher
2022-04-24T22:16:15 < kakium69> but mine would look pretty much the same
2022-04-24T22:18:05 < kakium69> excluding that molex 8)
2022-04-24T22:19:08 < kakium69> you did that rope thing with nylon rope and tape?
2022-04-24T22:19:46 < catphish> kakium69: it's wrapped in loom tape https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tesa-19mm-Adhesive-Wiring-Harness/dp/B00EVSL9X4
2022-04-24T22:20:14 < kakium69> yeah I have used that
2022-04-24T22:20:28 < catphish> it's basically just fabric electrical tape, seems to to a nice job
2022-04-24T22:20:32 < kakium69> must have item with vehicle repairs
2022-04-24T22:21:19 < catphish> i like the molex :)
2022-04-24T22:21:47 < kakium69> that molex has some chaotic energy
2022-04-24T22:22:04 < catphish> though not nearly as much as i like that deutsch panel mount socket
2022-04-24T22:22:44 < catphish> really easy to assemble, and really secure
2022-04-24T22:23:01 < kakium69> and waterproof
2022-04-24T22:23:09 < kakium69> to extent
2022-04-24T22:24:19 < kakium69> what I meant with rope and tape is wireharness mockup
2022-04-24T22:24:52 < kakium69> using ropes to find a route
2022-04-24T22:25:21 < kakium69> that is inside the box?
2022-04-24T22:28:55 < catphish> oh i see, i didn't bother with rope, i just measured each run with a piece of wire, then cut the others the same length, erring on the long side
2022-04-24T22:29:23 < kakium69> efficient
2022-04-24T22:29:47 < catphish> and yes, that loom lives inside the battery box
2022-04-24T22:31:30 < catphish> i haven't really thought much about the wiring for the rest of the car, i'm hoping i can keep most of the original wiring as-is and just extend with my new stuff as needed
2022-04-24T22:32:00 -!- rajkosto [~rajkosto@178-221-112-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2022-04-24T22:32:19 < catphish> i hope to finish this battery box in the next couple of days, as soon as that's done, i'll be getting the car up on a lift and installing the necessary front-to-rear pipes and wiring
2022-04-24T22:32:40 < kakium69> well
2022-04-24T22:33:04 < kakium69> it ain't too complex electrically
2022-04-24T22:35:08 < kakium69> does the car have canbus?
2022-04-24T22:38:36 < kakium69> my code creates almost unreadable build prints https://pastebin.com/yYSJMunf
2022-04-24T22:38:41 < kakium69> :D
2022-04-24T22:39:15 < kakium69> name of the instance is like 12lines long
2022-04-24T22:41:38 < kakium69> that print provides no information of value other than ld failed
2022-04-24T22:41:45 < kakium69> is ld always like that?
2022-04-24T22:42:15 < kakium69> linker failing has been rather rare occurance for me
2022-04-24T22:48:38 < catphish> kakium69: original car doesn't have canbus
2022-04-24T22:48:45 < kakium69> even better
2022-04-24T22:49:01 < catphish> i think the only complexity will be the gauges
2022-04-24T22:49:13 < kakium69> you have some analog and tacho wires to gauges and thats it?
2022-04-24T22:49:20 < catphish> yeo
2022-04-24T22:49:22 < catphish> *yep
2022-04-24T22:49:27 < kakium69> electric throttle?
2022-04-24T22:49:31 < catphish> yep
2022-04-24T22:49:36 < catphish> it's really the ideal candidate
2022-04-24T22:49:44 < kakium69> pot signals go to ecu directly?
2022-04-24T22:49:47 < catphish> yes
2022-04-24T22:49:55 < kakium69> perfect
2022-04-24T22:50:43 < catphish> mostly i just need to connect up the gauges and throttle while being careuful not to break the connections for the lights and ABS system
2022-04-24T22:51:02 < catphish> lights and brakes i have no need to touch
2022-04-24T22:51:58 < kakium69> are you going to mod gauge back graphics to make rpm gauge a battery gauge or kwh gauge?
2022-04-24T22:52:11 < kakium69> maybe switch mode gauge that can show kw or kwh
2022-04-24T22:58:55 < kakium69> maybe separate display for BMS information
2022-04-24T22:59:12 < catphish> kakium69: i don't know yet, it depends how i get on driving the analog gauges in the first place
2022-04-24T22:59:23 < catphish> if it's a pain i will replace them entirely with custom EV CAN ones
2022-04-24T22:59:47 < kakium69> if there is no digital bus both are tacho
2022-04-24T23:00:23 < kakium69> or could it be something else than tacho
2022-04-24T23:01:01 < catphish> speedo will be tacho, if it uses a wheel sensor, it may not need modification, rpm gauge will be tacho, i will make this into a current gauge instead by generating the necessary pulses
2022-04-24T23:01:31 < catphish> fuel gauge will likely expect a variable resistor, so i will try to trick this with PWM
2022-04-24T23:02:03 -!- steve__ [~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-24T23:02:11 < kakium69> pwm + RC filter
2022-04-24T23:02:31 < kakium69> there is fuel gauge? in LCD?
2022-04-24T23:02:40 < catphish> yes
2022-04-24T23:03:03 < catphish> which is another reason i may repace the whole thing, it shows fuel remaining in litres
2022-04-24T23:03:45 < kakium69> nice
2022-04-24T23:03:59 < catphish> nice but totally useless for me :)
2022-04-24T23:07:22 < qyx> if it knows litres, does it display range too?
2022-04-24T23:07:40 < qyx> I don't usually check the gauge, only the km range
2022-04-24T23:09:15 < kakium69> it's racing car
2022-04-24T23:09:26 < kakium69> sportscar
2022-04-24T23:09:42 < catphish> it knows litres, it doesn't know MPG, so no
2022-04-24T23:10:17 < kakium69> range may vary very much based on driving
2022-04-24T23:10:22 < kakium69> on such car
2022-04-24T23:12:20 < catphish> i need to find out about whether i can obtain one of these http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/topic/149983-garw-dash/
2022-04-24T23:12:22 < qyx> idk, I know I can do 930 km on full tank when going "slow" and 850 km when going "fast"
2022-04-24T23:12:43 < catphish> or build something similar
2022-04-24T23:12:44 < qyx> the consumption is always between 5.3-6.2, not varying much
2022-04-24T23:13:20 < catphish> my gof gti does 32mpg driving carefully, 25mpg driving like i prefer
2022-04-24T23:15:53 < catphish> the careful option probably uses a lot less tyres and brake pads too
2022-04-24T23:16:43 < Steffanx> Lol mpg 😅
2022-04-24T23:17:04 < catphish> that's how we primates measure efficiency
2022-04-24T23:17:06 < qyx> brake pads?
2022-04-24T23:17:07 < kakium69> uk still a bit backwaters when it comes to units
2022-04-24T23:17:09 < qyx> what are they for
2022-04-24T23:17:38 < qyx> I got them replaced after a couple of years and they were like new
2022-04-24T23:17:45 < catphish> we still use miles, we never use gallons, except to measure vehicle efficiency, it makes no sense, because we buy fuel in litres
2022-04-24T23:19:11 < catphish> uk is a bit weird, we love metric system, but we want the world to know we're still an island, so we throw in some curve balls
2022-04-24T23:19:34 < catphish> *2 islands, sorry irish
2022-04-24T23:19:53 < catphish> *northern irish, sorry irish republicans
2022-04-24T23:21:23 < kakium69> mpgs cannot be used to: calculate directly amount of fuel per distance, averaging fleet efficiency or making comparisons that reflect the difference in intuitive way
2022-04-24T23:24:34 < catphish> kakium69: sure they can
2022-04-24T23:25:04 < catphish> kakium69: assuming you measure distance in miles and fuel in gallons (we don't) then it's a pretty simple derivative :)
2022-04-24T23:25:17 < catphish> wonder where i get this https://i.imgur.com/etCGB7O.jpg
2022-04-24T23:25:37 < kakium69> cool display
2022-04-24T23:27:26 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy#Calculation look how fun averaging fleet mpg is
2022-04-24T23:37:04 < Steffanx> Just hire mangy dog to do a design for catphish . I recall he already has something fancy on his imgur page.
2022-04-24T23:37:11 < Steffanx> For you*
2022-04-24T23:37:23 < Steffanx> But it was for a motor bike.
2022-04-24T23:37:55 < rustytaco> Motorbikes<3
2022-04-24T23:38:16 < rustytaco> catphish: tbh just looks like a Plain Oled LCD
2022-04-24T23:38:24 < rustytaco> err Old
2022-04-24T23:38:35 < rustytaco> quite possibly a tablet
2022-04-24T23:39:05 < rustytaco> I've used ShadowDash on android with RusEFI and Speeduino with good luck
2022-04-24T23:40:20 < kakium69> Steffanx: exactly my thoughts
2022-04-24T23:42:31 < ventYl> aside from use of miles and galons, somehow distane per unit of power source makes more sense
2022-04-24T23:42:48 < ventYl> than power source consumed per 100 km
2022-04-24T23:43:15 < kakium69> l/100km is unit of consumption
2022-04-24T23:43:23 < kakium69> mpg is unit of efficiency
2022-04-24T23:43:40 < ventYl> both show the same
2022-04-24T23:44:20 < kakium69> mpg is literally called fuel efficiency
2022-04-24T23:44:47 < kakium69> l/100km is literally called fuel consumption
2022-04-24T23:44:51 < Steffanx> But in the end its the same.
2022-04-24T23:45:08 < Steffanx> And its just what I let my car show me.
2022-04-24T23:45:23 < Steffanx> Advanced maths.
2022-04-24T23:48:14 < ventYl> my can show coolant temp and fuel level, mostly
2022-04-24T23:49:58 < catphish> making a dash display is pretty easy, my concern is fitting it into the car neatly
2022-04-24T23:50:18 < qyx> use hot glue
2022-04-24T23:50:24 < catphish> ie it has to fit perectly in the original gauge cluster space
2022-04-24T23:50:44 < ventYl> if you think, that you'll find LCD, which withstands 85 deg. C, well. Viel Gluck :)
--- Day changed ma huhti 25 2022
2022-04-25T00:05:01 < Steffanx> But making it look awesomely great is something else catphish
2022-04-25T00:14:45 < catphish> Steffanx: indeed :(
2022-04-25T00:15:36 < ventYl> not that much problem if you don't overengineer it
2022-04-25T00:15:58 < ventYl> some time ago I had a project for board computer for my car
2022-04-25T00:16:28 < ventYl> I started with VW mini-dot as source of visual appearance
2022-04-25T00:16:47 < ventYl> and combined it with old Ericsson cellphones for menu UI
2022-04-25T00:16:50 < ventYl> kinda worked
2022-04-25T00:17:08 < catphish> i've been thinking about a setup for bench testing motors, is there any downside to using a battery and a current limited bench power supply in parallel?
2022-04-25T00:17:28 < catphish> so the battery handles peak current and reverse current, and the bench supply charges it in between
2022-04-25T00:27:40 < qyx> hm, I haven't used ti.com for product search for the last year
2022-04-25T00:35:10 < karlp> zyp: so, yeah, you are using "direct" dispatch, not vectored, and I missed your use of constructor attributes to do more setup, and I've now read the riscv privileged spec a bit more and things I believe will make more sense.
2022-04-25T00:35:23 < karlp> I'm a bit sunkissed frrom the weekend though, so not going to look at it tonight :)
2022-04-25T00:35:52 < ventYl> heh, I also almost managed to sunkiss myself yesterday
2022-04-25T00:35:55 < ventYl> in like 3 hours
2022-04-25T00:36:09 < karlp> yeah, I was even out in shorts today, pretty nice for april
2022-04-25T00:36:52 < zyp> :)
2022-04-25T00:37:31 < ventYl> typical april weather here. yesterday sunny and warm weather, today storm with lightning which managed to kill electric grid
2022-04-25T00:37:33 < karlp> constructor attributes wsa a bit tricksy though, that caght me out
2022-04-25T00:38:06 < zyp> they exist, might as well put them to use :)
2022-04-25T00:38:33 < qyx> ventYl: the first one this year,
2022-04-25T00:39:09 < ventYl> qyx: storm, or power grid meltdown?
2022-04-25T00:39:47 < qyx> srtom
2022-04-25T00:40:03 < kakium69> how is projexts qyx?
2022-04-25T00:40:29 < qyx> steady and slowly progressing
2022-04-25T00:40:38 < karlp> zyp: oh, I like them, it's a nice way of composing extra startup tweaks, so the basic startup is just "zero bss, blah"
2022-04-25T00:40:44 < karlp> but it was ... confusing at first :)
2022-04-25T00:40:47 < kakium69> qyx: how is miniature tractor?
2022-04-25T00:41:07 < qyx> on hold for this season
2022-04-25T00:41:17 < qyx> I though I could reuse 80% parts from the old one, but nope
2022-04-25T00:41:21 < qyx> it is shit as you have seen
2022-04-25T00:41:32 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-25T00:41:34 < kakium69> and ugli
2022-04-25T00:42:04 < kakium69> clearly it's ad hoc
2022-04-25T00:42:12 < qyx> but I did some sketches, selected wheels and stuff, hydraulic motors
2022-04-25T00:42:21 < qyx> and it will probably be articulated
2022-04-25T00:42:26 < qyx> or how is the thing called properly
2022-04-25T00:42:37 < kakium69> did you find ones with tappered bearning at front?
2022-04-25T00:42:49 < qyx> yes for about 230e
2022-04-25T00:42:54 < qyx> SMS-305
2022-04-25T00:43:27 < qyx> they should survive at least 15kN of radial/axial load
2022-04-25T00:44:26 < ventYl> why not copy some existing axle design?
2022-04-25T00:44:29 < qyx> yeah tractor with an articulation joint it is called
2022-04-25T00:44:58 < qyx> there is nothing to copy except the joint
2022-04-25T00:45:25 < qyx> simply fasten all four motors to a stiff frame with a joint in the middle
2022-04-25T00:45:52 < kakium69> you can do sheet metal box and have skid steering
2022-04-25T00:46:24 < kakium69> the cube tractor
2022-04-25T00:46:46 < ventYl> shit metal
2022-04-25T00:47:34 < qyx> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/72/3e/0f723edad20d4b5cda9959ae0db0e746.jpg
2022-04-25T00:47:39 < qyx> like this
2022-04-25T00:47:43 < ventYl> internal nickname of one of Fusion360 development teams
2022-04-25T00:47:48 < qyx> but a bit more rugged
2022-04-25T00:48:17 < qyx> (steering cylinders are missing on the picture)
2022-04-25T00:49:23 < kakium69> hmm that has articulation in lenght axis too
2022-04-25T00:49:28 < ventYl> qyx: for that upper bearing, check bearing for Skoda 120 rear axle. it is also tiltable
2022-04-25T00:49:32 < kakium69> has pros and cons
2022-04-25T00:49:34 < ventYl> and it is pretty srandard dimension
2022-04-25T00:50:19 < ventYl> double-row barrel roller bearing
2022-04-25T00:50:22 < kakium69> if you make such just make one part of frame have all mass especially that raises CG
2022-04-25T00:50:26 < qyx> basically up/down and left/right is needed, tilting is acceptable
2022-04-25T00:51:06 < qyx> motor and accumulators will be on the front axle, driver on the rear
2022-04-25T00:51:40 < kakium69> joint at middle is the most unstable
2022-04-25T00:52:14 < kakium69> especially if articulation is allowed in lenght axis
2022-04-25T00:52:15 < qyx> really?
2022-04-25T00:52:27 < kakium69> depends where the mass is
2022-04-25T00:52:35 < kakium69> but if it's at middle then sure
2022-04-25T00:53:13 < kakium69> if it's balanced on straight on top of both axes it doesn't matter
2022-04-25T00:53:38 < ventYl> qyx: why articulation joint? what else are you trying to avoid? steerable wheels?
2022-04-25T00:53:54 < qyx> oh yes, 80% of mass is on the front axle, right in the middle of it
2022-04-25T00:54:01 < kakium69> steerable wheels might be actually harder to implement
2022-04-25T00:54:06 < qyx> 20% is the driver sitting directly on the rear axle
2022-04-25T00:54:15 < kakium69> :o
2022-04-25T00:54:25 < qyx> ventYl: steerable wheels with hydromotors -> meh
2022-04-25T00:54:49 < ventYl> qyx: wouldn't steering of the whole front axle as one part simplify stuff?
2022-04-25T00:55:09 < ventYl> also, have you accounted for the fact, that all torque will hit that joint?
2022-04-25T00:55:13 < kakium69> it would be basically articulation joint moved all way front
2022-04-25T00:55:14 < qyx> it would be harder to do a front loader
2022-04-25T00:55:15 < kakium69> or back
2022-04-25T00:55:25 < qyx> because the wheels will collide
2022-04-25T00:55:52 < qyx> ventYl: yeah but a couple of tons shouldn't be a problem for a 30 or 40 mm dia steel joint
2022-04-25T00:56:00 < qyx> I hope
2022-04-25T00:56:12 < ventYl> not for the joint itself, for it's surrounding structures
2022-04-25T00:56:36 < qyx> as I said, I had not much time so far for it
2022-04-25T00:56:39 < ventYl> how much trouble would be to place hydromotors onto chassis and use something like joint axle in front?
2022-04-25T00:56:42 < qyx> I need to think about things a bit
2022-04-25T00:56:45 < kakium69> qyx: why not have batteries on top of rear axle
2022-04-25T00:56:52 < kakium69> more balanced
2022-04-25T00:57:04 < ventYl> then you could use more/less standard front axle
2022-04-25T00:57:21 < qyx> kakium69: I planned to move them as required depending on the real world test
2022-04-25T00:58:58 < kakium69> n+1 iterations and you have a small tractor company
2022-04-25T00:59:30 < qyx> basically i only want front loader (+ with forks/snow plow) + grass cutter and rotavator on rear
2022-04-25T01:02:19 < ventYl> *only*
2022-04-25T01:02:28 < qyx> https://www.sunpattikawa.com/products/NorTrac-25WLD-25-HP-Mini-Compact-Articulated-Wheel-Loader-%E2%80%94-Diesel-Powered.html
2022-04-25T01:02:34 < qyx> this kind of construction
2022-04-25T01:02:35 < kakium69> standard three point hitch at rear?
2022-04-25T01:02:40 < qyx> with motor in the middle
2022-04-25T01:02:46 < qyx> yes
2022-04-25T01:02:55 < qyx> and that bobcat quick coupling on the front
2022-04-25T01:04:29 < kakium69> can you find front loader ready made for what kind of $$ ?
2022-04-25T01:04:51 < qyx> or the other one, idk how is it called
2022-04-25T01:04:59 < qyx> didn't check yet, i hope so
2022-04-25T01:05:02 < rustytaco> So lads - i use stm32duino bits and such.. I really deeply hate the java IDE for arduino and much prefer makefiles - is there some magick github repo with the secret sauce?
2022-04-25T01:05:24 < qyx> arduino+makefiles?
2022-04-25T01:05:29 < qyx> or something more reasonable?
2022-04-25T01:05:42 < ventYl> I'd say there is no secret sauce
2022-04-25T01:05:44 < rustytaco> Ive such a thing for arduino's yes, but it doesnt seem to have support for stm32 tagets
2022-04-25T01:05:47 < rustytaco> targets
2022-04-25T01:07:12 < kakium69> qyx: something like vertical lift used in warehouse fork loader?
2022-04-25T01:07:26 < rustytaco> My project has a stm32f401 nucleo driving the frequency generators and ADC/DAC devices, talking to an arduino to control filters, active antenna, apply series inductance and/capacitance to tune the antenna; and a raspberry pi4 to control the whole lot of it.. It's not happy to fire up arduino IDE and watch all my other programs become OOMed
2022-04-25T01:07:56 < rustytaco> Eventually i hope to use the stm32 to present the whole project as a single USB device to the pi, carrying audio samples and serial data over one USB
2022-04-25T01:09:45 < ventYl> use either STMCube (but it is hard to use without GUI component, which is also Java-based) or libopencm3, it should have fairly complete support of F4
2022-04-25T01:10:19 < ventYl> both are Makefile based (AFAIK), so once you get your template ouf of GUI, you could basically forget about it
2022-04-25T01:10:52 < rustytaco> hmm i'll check out opencm3 first but generating it in stmcube is viable, thanks, ventYl !
2022-04-25T01:11:05 < rustytaco> dinner time, back soonly if i survive my nephew's cooking (:
2022-04-25T01:11:28 < qyx> libopencm3 is good and F4 is well supported
2022-04-25T01:11:51 < qyx> get the blinky led example and try
2022-04-25T01:12:02 < qyx> kakium69: yes
2022-04-25T01:12:35 < kakium69> you have untolerable CG with that
2022-04-25T01:13:13 < kakium69> bouncing from wheel to wheel unless on flat surface
2022-04-25T01:14:04 < kakium69> ofc tips over when braking
2022-04-25T01:14:24 < kakium69> those fork loaders have cast iron weight at back
2022-04-25T01:14:43 < kakium69> or the whole structure 8)
2022-04-25T01:15:12 < ventYl> that's because there is requirement for extremely short wheelbase while being able to move without tripping over with loads high in the air
2022-04-25T01:15:26 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-25T01:15:42 < qyx> I don't need to go higher than ~1.5 m
2022-04-25T01:15:56 < qyx> and not lifting concrete blocks
2022-04-25T01:16:23 < kakium69> one operation lift?
2022-04-25T01:16:29 < ventYl> as long as m*a on tractor side will be > than m*a on load side you are safe
2022-04-25T01:16:31 < kakium69> up and down?
2022-04-25T01:16:33 < ventYl> until joint gets upset
2022-04-25T01:16:57 < ventYl> then you will see Motoko Kusanagi moment
2022-04-25T01:17:02 < qyx> basically for unloading a car
2022-04-25T01:17:09 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-25T01:17:27 < qyx> not doing warehouse business with 10 storeys
2022-04-25T01:17:57 < kakium69> simple cable operated vertical lift maybe just some generic rails and a cable wheel
2022-04-25T01:19:10 < kakium69> zyp: https://godbolt.org/z/1sEd7a9hM why first static_assert fails and second doesn't+
2022-04-25T01:19:19 < kakium69> same expression in both
2022-04-25T01:19:25 < kakium69> other uses constexpr
2022-04-25T01:20:32 < qyx> meh those things cost fortune https://www.ebay.com/itm/323877463306
2022-04-25T01:22:18 < ventYl> kakium69: line 9 should probably be static constexpr int
2022-04-25T01:22:41 < kakium69> :o
2022-04-25T01:22:57 < ventYl> if static is missing, then method is only accessible from within instantiated object
2022-04-25T01:23:04 < ventYl> which is not what you are doing there
2022-04-25T01:23:14 < kakium69> there is static constexprs :o
2022-04-25T01:23:43 < ventYl> no there is not (at least not in what opened from that link)
2022-04-25T01:23:59 < ventYl> line 9 reads constexprt in testconstexpr(int ma, int mb)
2022-04-25T01:24:14 < kakium69> yes.. I meant: wow I didn't know I could use static keyword with constexpr
2022-04-25T01:24:31 < ventYl> why not? they are completely independent
2022-04-25T01:24:39 < ventYl> you can use constexpr even with definition of variables
2022-04-25T01:25:34 < catphish> my wife is making me watch "and just like that".
2022-04-25T01:25:39 < catphish> don't do this.
2022-04-25T01:25:41 < ventYl> constexpr basically tells: either this will boil down to compile-time deducible something, or compilating will fail
2022-04-25T01:27:16 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-25T01:28:48 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/APhPxvBGuso
2022-04-25T01:29:55 < kakium69> nice graphic
2022-04-25T01:30:08 < Mangy_Dog> thankies :)
2022-04-25T01:30:51 < kakium69> can you make it update 10hz?
2022-04-25T01:31:12 < Mangy_Dog> im using virtual serial
2022-04-25T01:31:33 < Mangy_Dog> theres some issues with updating from the hardware sensors too fast
2022-04-25T01:31:41 < Mangy_Dog> data gets lost
2022-04-25T01:33:11 < kakium69> you left room for other things bellow that?
2022-04-25T01:33:15 < kakium69> GPU?
2022-04-25T01:33:33 < kakium69> networking? io?
2022-04-25T01:35:12 < Mangy_Dog> yep
2022-04-25T01:35:14 < Mangy_Dog> will do
2022-04-25T01:35:35 < Mangy_Dog> im a little behind where i want to be, struggled with getting font assets loading correctly... then struggled with the hardware monitor api
2022-04-25T01:35:44 < Mangy_Dog> yay for no documentation
2022-04-25T01:36:14 < ventYl> at least it has some presentable UI :)
2022-04-25T01:37:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://hackaday.io/project/184711-mainframe-compute-observator
2022-04-25T01:37:49 < Mangy_Dog> https://hackaday.io/project/184711/gallery#2ad79c4f34077f58b1fed0ab30436912
2022-04-25T01:37:57 < Mangy_Dog> prototype of the graphics
2022-04-25T01:39:25 < kakium69> qyx: https://konetalovainikka.fi/tuote/adapteri-pikalukituksellatyolaitekiinnitysadapteri-2/ maybe avant type?
2022-04-25T01:39:46 < kakium69> unless you are invested in kubota system
2022-04-25T01:41:34 < Mangy_Dog> ???
2022-04-25T01:41:44 < Mangy_Dog> whats that
2022-04-25T01:43:09 < kakium69> loader tool quick connect plate
2022-04-25T01:43:19 < kakium69> this is ##tractors32 now
2022-04-25T01:44:26 < qyx> kubota is popular here
2022-04-25T01:44:35 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: did you solve your NOR flash issues?
2022-04-25T01:44:39 < qyx> that's how NOR flash works
2022-04-25T01:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2022-04-25T01:45:02 < Mangy_Dog> for the moment ive just gone with erasing the whole chip before upload
2022-04-25T01:45:07 < Mangy_Dog> simpler for the moment
2022-04-25T01:45:55 < kakium69> qyx: you bet there is generic no-brand adapter plate available
2022-04-25T01:46:15 < kakium69> for quarter the price
2022-04-25T01:46:20 < qyx> probably yes, there are many those euro style plates
2022-04-25T01:46:39 < qyx> I like them, easily weldable from lasered components
2022-04-25T01:46:48 < qyx> but I am not a tractor pro yet
2022-04-25T02:08:47 < rustytaco> filthy machines :(
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2022-04-25T03:39:51 < ColdKeyboard> Did I understand how the flow-control in USART works; If the CTS is low, other device will transmitt a frame (~byte) and then check the CTS again. If CTS goes HIGH, transmitter will wait for CTS to go LOW before sending next frame. Is this correct?
2022-04-25T03:40:53 < ColdKeyboard> On STM32 I'm getting 2-3 bytes and then it stops (because I keep CTS HIGH after first frame). I'm not sure if it's issue with the driver or that the transmitter doesn't really care (even thou flow control is setup)
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2022-04-25T08:49:15 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: different devices have different latencies when it comes to reacting to RTS/CTS; some will keep sending a few bytes afterwards
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2022-04-25T10:12:33 < zyp> kakium69, fixed it for you: https://godbolt.org/z/qv19Trvs5
2022-04-25T10:32:06 < ventYl> "We have an issue with MSVC compilations."
2022-04-25T10:32:11 < ventYl> unexpected :)
2022-04-25T12:47:50 < kakium69> thanks zyp
2022-04-25T12:48:16 < kakium69> and ventYl
2022-04-25T14:10:22 < ventYl> i would like to know what thinking led to decision of not using sealed bearings in device where moisture is present
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2022-04-25T15:15:09 < fenugrec> "bearing said "sealed for life" on the box!
2022-04-25T15:15:23 < fenugrec> which is true, if you accept dramatically short life
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2022-04-25T21:39:11 < mawk> aeae
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2022-04-25T23:51:06 < qyx> semi related https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/25/eu-unveils-plan-largest-ever-ban-on-dangerous-chemicals
2022-04-25T23:54:24 < Steffanx> Poor mawk. No mor chems for him
2022-04-25T23:54:53 < mawk> ohno
--- Day changed ti huhti 26 2022
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2022-04-26T02:00:24 < kakium69> it's tru
2022-04-26T02:00:35 < kakium69> we live in polution
2022-04-26T02:01:17 < kakium69> stuff we consume have harmful chemical components
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2022-04-26T09:14:52 < jpa-> i wonder what this is about: https://github.com/mcufont/mcufont/issues/28 though considering their previous solution, i'm not sure i want to know: https://github.com/mcufont/mcufont/issues/27
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2022-04-26T09:27:09 < ventYl> wtf
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2022-04-26T09:38:22 < jpa-> i think they are saying they don't like function pointers
2022-04-26T09:48:40 < ventYl> maybe they just don't know what it is
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2022-04-26T10:03:51 < rkta> I like the idea to include all source files - it's keeps your Makefile small.
2022-04-26T10:06:53 < jpa-> it also makes for nice naming conflicts between static declarations in different files
2022-04-26T10:08:57 < ventYl> my pet cat obtained his own pet
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2022-04-26T10:38:48 < qyx> a pet mouse?
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2022-04-26T10:48:35 < ventYl> a pet tick
2022-04-26T10:48:53 < mawk> including .c files is common in unit tests jpa-
2022-04-26T11:20:00 < jpa-> mawk: yeah, i do it too, but then it is usually just a single file & within the library
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2022-04-26T12:59:33 < kakium69> do you use doxygen?
2022-04-26T13:05:00 < ventYl> yes
2022-04-26T13:18:22 < kakium69> seems rather simple
2022-04-26T13:18:29 < kakium69> to drive
2022-04-26T13:18:59 < kakium69> just write comments and throw some preprocessor shiets there
2022-04-26T13:19:21 < ventYl> it is dead simple, quality of reports always depends on quality of information provided
2022-04-26T13:19:46 < ventYl> despite being rather old, doxygen still works good these days
2022-04-26T13:20:19 < kakium69> doxygen makes a compile pass of it's own?
2022-04-26T13:21:02 < kakium69> preprocessor omits anything that doesn't need to be in doxygen
2022-04-26T13:21:17 < ventYl> it does not perform compile. it has it's own parser which attempts to find all objects of interest and then to source documentation for them
2022-04-26T13:21:33 < ventYl> this parser is fairly primitive, certain stuff may confuse it
2022-04-26T13:21:40 < ventYl> (Autosar does that by default)
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2022-04-26T14:31:58 < karlp> gek, trying to get git revision into simplicity studio shits is fucking hell
2022-04-26T14:32:13 < karlp> it's clearly using a makefile, but not the one in the project directory,
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2022-04-26T17:00:47 < c10ud> if i have a struct that contains other structs what do you write to force alignment on struct members (which are not necessarily declared aligned themselves in their types)
2022-04-26T17:01:23 < c10ud> #pragma pack(push, 4) before struct declaration should do it in IAR I guess
2022-04-26T17:01:51 < c10ud> but i get warnings when memcpying to some struct members that they're not aligned
2022-04-26T17:02:27 < c10ud> ie. struct foo { int bar; struct baz; } when memcpying something to &baz it complains
2022-04-26T17:03:02 < c10ud> note that the example is not what triggers this
2022-04-26T17:03:44 < ventYl> unaligned access is generally not an issue, until member itself spans two 4-byte-long words
2022-04-26T17:03:49 < ventYl> if it spans, then YMMV
2022-04-26T17:06:07 < c10ud> yes exactly but seems like that pragma is not forcing alignment on the member structs of the container one
2022-04-26T17:06:16 < c10ud> at least on _some_ of them
2022-04-26T17:09:17 < c10ud> and it's weird as I see it's aligned (offsetof = 168)
2022-04-26T17:09:54 < ventYl> well, pragma is only effective at the time of declaration of certain type
2022-04-26T17:10:02 < ventYl> not at the time of its usage
2022-04-26T17:10:23 < ventYl> if it was, then you would essentially have two struct layouts under same name
2022-04-26T17:11:13 < c10ud> not sure I'm following your thought correctly...
2022-04-26T17:11:39 < c10ud> the compiler is warning that member "baz" is not aligned ("use of address of unaligned structure member")
2022-04-26T17:12:03 < c10ud> when i do memcpy(&local_baz, &orig.baz, sizeof(local_baz));
2022-04-26T17:12:24 < ventYl> there are two separate issues here
2022-04-26T17:12:25 < c10ud> even if offsetof(struct orig_type, baz) returns an aligned addr (base+168)
2022-04-26T17:12:49 < ventYl> hmm, that's interesting
2022-04-26T17:13:21 < c10ud> and i know it's aligned as it's an external sram at 0x68000000
2022-04-26T17:13:27 < c10ud> the base addr, i mean
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2022-04-26T17:30:27 < jpa-> c10ud: why would memcpy complain about alignment anyway, isn't memcpy supposed to be able to copy to any alignment
2022-04-26T17:31:08 < jpa-> the warning seems to be about taking address of &orig.baz
2022-04-26T17:32:12 < jpa-> if orig.baz contains double or uint64_t, maybe you are actually accidentally unaligning it
2022-04-26T17:32:51 < jpa-> without any pragmas it should align correctly by itself
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2022-04-26T17:56:31 < bitmask> hi ppl
2022-04-26T17:57:12 < Steffanx> Hello mask
2022-04-26T17:57:27 < bitmask> how are you tody
2022-04-26T17:57:29 < bitmask> a
2022-04-26T18:01:37 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-26T18:02:49 < bitmask> i see
2022-04-26T18:03:55 < bitmask> fine, im gonna go get my car inspected... I think it was due august 2020, cant believe i havent gotten a ticket
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2022-04-26T18:21:55 < c10ud> jpa-, nice thought, yes, the 1st member struct that generates a complain indeed contains doubles
2022-04-26T18:22:29 < c10ud> well tbh I added the pragma to prevent the warning in the first place
2022-04-26T18:24:08 < c10ud> and weirdly enough without the pragma seems you are right..what the hell did I see the other day then?
2022-04-26T18:25:53 < c10ud> is the default behaviour implicit packing or it just takes the bigger member (duh) and packs according to thatA?
2022-04-26T18:26:19 < c10ud> aligning to 8 bytes fixes it tho
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2022-04-26T19:23:14 < bitmask> inspection passed
2022-04-26T19:31:51 < Steffanx> \o/
2022-04-26T19:33:25 < bitmask> bought 2 chapsticks and lost one on the way home :P damnit
2022-04-26T19:33:35 < bitmask> i keep one in my pocket and one in my bedroom
2022-04-26T19:33:48 < bitmask> your welcome for sharing an interesting story
2022-04-26T19:34:08 < bitmask> what shall I do totday
2022-04-26T19:34:32 < bitmask> maybe look for a job
2022-04-26T19:35:16 < Steffanx> Maybe.
2022-04-26T19:35:25 < Steffanx> How's the statue going?
2022-04-26T19:35:34 < Steffanx> I dont recall seeing the end result
2022-04-26T19:36:51 < jpa-> c10ud: normally C compiler aligns each field to its requirement and adds padding as necessary
2022-04-26T19:37:05 < bitmask> i gave up, it was getting worse and worse
2022-04-26T19:38:10 < bitmask> it keeps growing blue crystals...
2022-04-26T19:39:04 < bitmask> i need a proper electropolishing tank
2022-04-26T20:21:03 < Steffanx> Awh
2022-04-26T20:51:27 < bitmask> Steffanx, you got me to try polishing it one last time, used some lemon juice salt and corn starch: https://imgur.com/a/6LMa3N1
2022-04-26T20:51:54 < bitmask> the surface got worse and worse as i tried replating and stuff so its kinda bumpy
2022-04-26T20:51:57 < bitmask> but not terrible
2022-04-26T20:53:04 < Steffanx> Not terribly in dead. It got a little casted look
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2022-04-26T20:53:54 < bitmask> in dead?
2022-04-26T20:59:09 < Steffanx> Indeed.
2022-04-26T20:59:15 < Steffanx> Lol such autocorrected
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2022-04-26T21:33:01 < bitmask> you are a good luck charm Steffanx
2022-04-26T21:33:30 < bitmask> i gave up on it and you got me to a point that im semi happy with it. just applied the first coat of protectaclear
2022-04-26T21:34:01 < bitmask> I did want a slight dark patina in the corners to give it some character but it was too hard to get to this point i didnt want to fuck it up
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2022-04-26T21:55:09 < Steffanx> ðŸ˜
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--- Day changed ke huhti 27 2022
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2022-04-27T00:44:49 < karlp> zyp: where did you get the "USI/SSI/MSI" set of internal vectors for gd32v at https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms/riscv.yaml?h=dev_v2&id=7ddb4d2fafa580712b289de0956796cd7b78189a#n27
2022-04-27T00:45:12 < karlp> I don't see them in the bumblebee core architecture pdf, nor the gd32v RM?
2022-04-27T00:46:21 < zyp> they are part of the riscv spec itself, I'm not sure gd32v uses them
2022-04-27T00:47:12 < zyp> IIRC they're part of the privileged something something spec
2022-04-27T00:48:28 < zyp> first letter U/S/M are privilege levels, second letter is interrupt type (software, timer, exception maybe?)
2022-04-27T00:51:32 < zyp> I think maybe I tested those with some risc-v in renode, i.e. with a different interrupt controller
2022-04-27T00:54:30 < zyp> interrupt/dispatch_riscv.cpp and dispatch_plic.cpp are supposed to deal with that, but they're not used by the SConscript at the moment
2022-04-27T00:54:45 < zyp> so that's a work in progress I committed to not lose :)
2022-04-27T00:54:46 < karlp> right, I found some reference to those names in the rv priv spec, but looks like it only has 3 and 7.
2022-04-27T00:54:58 < karlp> yeah, I can see that you have dangling code there, it's quite a useful tree of "stuff"
2022-04-27T00:55:03 < karlp> just kinda untangling it again.
2022-04-27T00:55:11 < karlp> it kinda dribbled out of my brain a bit.
2022-04-27T00:55:49 < karlp> you're setting a reserved bit here? https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/dispatch_clic.cpp?h=dev_v2&id=7ddb4d2fafa580712b289de0956796cd7b78189a#n23
2022-04-27T00:55:56 < karlp> riscv priv spec only defines 0, 1 and "reserved"
2022-04-27T00:56:02 < karlp> but you (and also WCH) set it to 3?
2022-04-27T00:56:25 < zyp> IIRC CLIC spec defines more modes than base spec
2022-04-27T00:56:58 < karlp> ah, I've not looked at clic.
2022-04-27T00:57:08 < karlp> that's the rv "standard" interrupt controller?
2022-04-27T00:57:30 < zyp> no, it's an NVIC-like extension
2022-04-27T00:59:25 < ventYl> karlp: OT: I see that there is opencmsis in locm3. there is stated that cmsis is proprietary by ARM. Q1: is openCMSIS actually of any real value? Q2: is that statement still valid and/or relevant as I see that CMSIS has apache-2.0 license.
2022-04-27T00:59:38 < karlp> CLIC mode is enabled using previously reserved values (*11) in the low two bits of mtvec.
2022-04-27T00:59:49 < karlp> right, plic is the original standard one.
2022-04-27T01:00:01 < karlp> ventYl: opencmsis should be burnt, IMO, yes.
2022-04-27T01:00:10 < karlp> but i'm exceptionally uninterested in it.
2022-04-27T01:00:19 < karlp> I dont'e ven know what opencmsis was meant to be for.
2022-04-27T01:00:26 < karlp> it's very very old, and I've never used it.
2022-04-27T01:00:33 < karlp> it all predates cmsis having an apache license.
2022-04-27T01:00:47 < ventYl> it seems as someone created it because he had some efm32 code which specifically referenced if
2022-04-27T01:00:52 < karlp> cmsis _was_ proprietary at the time,
2022-04-27T01:00:53 < ventYl> s/if$/it/
2022-04-27T01:01:08 < karlp> the entire libopencm3 would be different if cmsis has been apache2 licesned up front like it is now.
2022-04-27T01:01:22 < ventYl> ok, that's what I thought. so it is useless and there is no point in extending it
2022-04-27T01:01:28 < karlp> it would have been library code on standard cmsis headers, instead of re-writing our own from the docs ourselves.
2022-04-27T01:01:52 < karlp> I've never used the opencmsis shit, but every now and again someone "fixes" it.
2022-04-27T01:02:05 < ventYl> there is barely anything to be used
2022-04-27T01:02:07 < karlp> but like I said, suuuuper uninterested in working on that sort of thing :)
2022-04-27T01:02:09 < ventYl> it is very sparse and old
2022-04-27T01:02:16 < ventYl> last like, 9 years
2022-04-27T01:03:07 < ventYl> that's fair, I was just interested in hearing if the statement on non-free CMSIS relies on some hidden gotcha, or is simply outdated
2022-04-27T01:03:28 < ventYl> sole fact that CMSIS is apache-2.0 these days makes opencmsis obsolete
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2022-04-27T01:06:26 < qyx> are there no dual N-mos in sot23-6?
2022-04-27T01:06:59 < qyx> or am I just dumb
2022-04-27T01:08:07 < zyp> like this? https://docs.rs-online.com/278d/0900766b8151e3ef.pdf
2022-04-27T01:08:43 < karlp> I think that means, "you're just dumb" ? :)
2022-04-27T01:08:52 < qyx> oh yeah fucking names
2022-04-27T01:09:01 < qyx> superSOT-6 is not sot23-6
2022-04-27T01:09:13 < qyx> because it is SUPER
2022-04-27T01:09:31 < zyp> idk, I got datasheet from here: https://no.rs-online.com/web/p/mosfets/3544941
2022-04-27T01:09:40 < zyp> that one says sot-23
2022-04-27T01:10:21 < qyx> there are also many in SOT363/SC70
2022-04-27T01:10:56 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-27T01:11:10 < zyp> might as well pick something with good availability/lots of alternates
2022-04-27T01:11:38 < karlp> use the "package" note "manufacturer packge" filter on dk/mouser?
2022-04-27T01:12:00 < karlp> ok, so pfic has nvic registers, but nothign else is like nvic, so I'm going ot make a copy.
2022-04-27T01:12:15 < karlp> then I can have vectors and dispatch my own way, instead of trampling over cortex-m shits
2022-04-27T01:12:27 < karlp> I want bits of clic and bits of nvic and bits of plic I think :)
2022-04-27T01:12:35 < karlp> going to go with direct unvectored first...
2022-04-27T01:16:12 < zyp> yeah, that's what I would do
2022-04-27T01:27:49 < qyx> karlp: I forgot, sry
2022-04-27T01:28:11 < qyx> I will try to catch you tomorrow
2022-04-27T01:30:32 < qyx> unrelated, winter ends and https://www.hzs.sk/uploads/photogallery/2717/20220414_173900.jpg
2022-04-27T01:31:12 < qyx> I didn't see it earlier when it happened
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2022-04-27T01:32:46 < karlp> yeah, there's no snow left "out" at the summer house, but I found a few piles under some trees along the boundary fence.
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2022-04-27T01:34:18 < qyx> he nearly lost his head, but apparently survived
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2022-04-27T01:48:34 < mawk> who qyx ?
2022-04-27T01:48:36 < mawk> a human?
2022-04-27T01:48:40 < mawk> poor guy
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2022-04-27T02:22:09 < karlp> whee, it works!
2022-04-27T02:22:38 < karlp> fuck yes, first go at flashing after thinking and thinkgin and tweaking it til it compiled and then yay
2022-04-27T02:39:51 < karlp> zyp: https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/b1581f557c817bd6cda3adaa332030ab7b16d4fa#diff-7d36771a12ee040d5aa943dea832a39a5d82ec1d127e93460e5f94ce20ba533aR24
2022-04-27T02:40:11 < karlp> should that sort of "fpu" code go ... elsewhere? it doesn't realllly feel like it belongs in the dispatch_xxx files,
2022-04-27T02:40:42 < karlp> and the current startup/entry.cpp has a kinda gross direct register access for cortex-m...
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2022-04-27T04:13:26 < karlp> heh, now I understand these "wch-interrupt-fast" attributes.
2022-04-27T04:14:00 < karlp> they have direct and vectored, and this extra bit for jumnp vs addresses,
2022-04-27T04:14:19 < karlp> but they _also_ let you configure up to 4 interrupts for special treatment via their own registers.
2022-04-27T04:14:45 < karlp> I wonder what toolchain magic was getting done to turn the attributes into the right special sauce...
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2022-04-27T04:47:12 < aandrew> wch? you're using that new riscv chip?
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2022-04-27T09:34:44 < Xogium> erm… you guys have any experience dealing with bent pins ? Like the gpio ones you get on rpi and such
2022-04-27T09:35:07 < Xogium> in practice, can they be straightened good, or will they end up snapping off ?
2022-04-27T09:35:43 < Xogium> tough luck here, I got the 3 pins for uart bent on a board I received
2022-04-27T09:37:40 < Xogium> the nasty sort of bending, too… Instead of pointing upward they point almost towards me
2022-04-27T09:48:16 < jpa-> they can be straightened 3 times
2022-04-27T09:50:30 < Xogium> jpa-: why 3 ? :O
2022-04-27T09:50:59 < jpa-> then they snap due to metal "fatigue"
2022-04-27T09:53:13 < Xogium> hmm
2022-04-27T09:53:38 < Xogium> so I should be good to get them back in place
2022-04-27T09:55:04 < Xogium> I thought it would be worse than that, mind you. I mean, the number of times you can set them straight
2022-04-27T09:59:04 < Xogium> pliers should do it, right ?
2022-04-27T09:59:13 < Xogium> or would you use something else ?
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2022-04-27T10:05:48 < jpa-> pliers is fine
2022-04-27T10:06:17 < Xogium> alright :) thanks
2022-04-27T10:07:28 < ventYl> success depends on how much they are bent. if it is just like less than 30 degrees, then it is absolutely fine
2022-04-27T10:08:22 < ventYl> i had one 2.5" IDE drive which was virtually impossible to disconnect from cable without bending pins and i have straightened them like 20 times
2022-04-27T10:08:30 < ventYl> if I still have it, it still works
2022-04-27T10:09:16 < Xogium> hmm I don't know the angle… I'm not very good at estimating
2022-04-27T10:11:26 < Xogium> but heh, if I don't try it then I'm never going to know if they can be fixed :p
2022-04-27T10:12:37 < ventYl> well, if it remains bent, then it is of very little use anyway
2022-04-27T10:12:48 < ventYl> you don't have anything to lose
2022-04-27T10:12:57 < Xogium> yeah
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2022-04-27T11:14:30 < zyp> karlp, yeah, I figure the clean solution would be to make a separate fpu/ dir with init functions for the various ones, and a SConscript picking the appropriate one based on the platform definition, if any
2022-04-27T11:15:04 < zyp> or maybe it can go under startup/ since it's part of startup init
2022-04-27T11:19:27 < zyp> should probably also define init priorities
2022-04-27T11:23:06 < zyp> it seems to be possible to use enums in the constructor attribute, so it'd be reasonable to make a header with a priority enum
2022-04-27T11:23:37 < zyp> makes it easy to reorder stuff later if necessary
2022-04-27T11:31:25 < ventYl> is it me, or gmail became very confusing to use?
2022-04-27T11:31:54 < jpa-> ventYl: what's confusing?
2022-04-27T11:33:02 < ventYl> jpa-: navigation around long thread; reply vs. reply all (buttons are grouped for virtually no good reason); also visualisation of new e-mail seems to be weird on desktop
2022-04-27T11:36:04 < zyp> buttons are grouped?
2022-04-27T11:37:15 < ventYl> by default, there is option to reply and forward, in reply you have to select reply all in dropdown
2022-04-27T11:37:32 < ventYl> somehow I am used to see "reply all" in toolbar
2022-04-27T11:38:20 < ventYl> heh, sometimes there is reply all, sometimes there is not
2022-04-27T11:38:44 < ventYl> i would swear that reply all button was missing in e-mail thread where someone was on Cc
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2022-04-27T12:19:06 < benishor> sds2104x plus arriving today \o/
2022-04-27T12:19:48 < benishor> one more ssa3021x plus and I should be good
2022-04-27T12:20:05 < benishor> hopefully the upgade doors are still present
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2022-04-27T12:30:25 < zyp> jpa-, any opinion of the proto2 optional/required vs everything being optional in proto3?
2022-04-27T12:34:34 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, playing with it, and doing it raw c++, no vendor headers at all. ribbed for someone's pleasure :)
2022-04-27T12:35:22 < karlp> yeah, constructur enum orders soundsd pretty nice.
2022-04-27T12:35:50 < karlp> patrick has promised to get a translation of the bt api document for me too :) so I can do btle at home _and_ at work!
2022-04-27T12:39:35 < jpa-> zyp: i liked the proto2 optional/required and default values
2022-04-27T12:39:54 < jpa-> but the proto3 way of not having to separately care whether field is present or not is nice also
2022-04-27T12:40:05 < jpa-> and proto3 seems more popular nowadays so i would use it for new stuff
2022-04-27T12:40:56 < zyp> when serializing, would you check whether e.g. an int is 0 and just skip encoding it?
2022-04-27T12:42:28 < zyp> I was googling around earlier and found this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28958135/how-to-write-my-own-code-generator-of-protobuf
2022-04-27T12:42:38 < zyp> so you're apparently the authority on all things protobuf :)
2022-04-27T12:45:14 < karlp> from my xsd days, deciding that 0 is equal to unspecified seems pretty risky...
2022-04-27T12:45:31 < zyp> that's what proto3 does
2022-04-27T12:45:34 < karlp> but you might have some other context in protobuf?
2022-04-27T12:48:21 < zyp> I mean, I'd be tempted to std::optional everything to easily distinguish between present and not, but that's not how protobuf is intended to work
2022-04-27T12:49:25 < zyp> protobuf says if a parsed message doesn't contain an optional element, it's set to the default value, which for proto2 is configurable and for proto3 is always 0
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2022-04-27T12:53:27 < karlp> ok, so yes, protobuf has support for that built in then :)
2022-04-27T12:57:45 < zyp> hmm, embedded messages are length-prefixed, not too happy about that
2022-04-27T12:58:14 < benishor> should remind you of pascal strings
2022-04-27T12:58:29 < zyp> means I need to recursively query the size of everything first, before encoding
2022-04-27T12:59:18 < benishor> or you could generate from leaves to root
2022-04-27T12:59:45 < zyp> no, I wanna generate into an iterator
2022-04-27T12:59:47 < benishor> that means you'll need to store everything before you send it
2022-04-27T13:00:04 < zyp> yeah, I don't wanna do that :)
2022-04-27T13:00:25 < benishor> alternatively you can put placed holders and fill in the sizes at the end
2022-04-27T13:00:48 < zyp> nope, the size itself is a varint, meaning size varies depending on the number
2022-04-27T13:00:59 < benishor> ah yes, "flexible"
2022-04-27T13:01:14 < benishor> no other choice then. burn some cpu cycles
2022-04-27T13:02:52 < zyp> except for the payload of string/byte buffers, everything in a protobuf message boils down to a sequence of varints
2022-04-27T13:03:17 < benishor> it's been a while since I used protobuffers
2022-04-27T13:03:38 < benishor> may I ask why you chose protobuf?
2022-04-27T13:03:46 < zyp> which means that serializing/deserializing is pretty easy, it'll mostly be just put/get varint on an iterator
2022-04-27T13:03:48 < karlp> because jpa will help him with it ;)
2022-04-27T13:04:12 < benishor> :-)
2022-04-27T13:04:51 < zyp> because I want an easy way to do rpc
2022-04-27T13:05:09 < benishor> I tend to go for text based protocols if situation allows it
2022-04-27T13:05:16 < benishor> much easier to do test/debug
2022-04-27T13:05:39 < benishor> there are certain reasons to go for binary ones but I'm curious what was yours
2022-04-27T13:06:00 < zyp> I want to be able to easily define some functions in firmware and call them from e.g. python on the host
2022-04-27T13:06:33 < benishor> what are your constraints on firmware side?
2022-04-27T13:06:55 < karlp> (firmata exists, it's widespread, even if it's a bit shit)
2022-04-27T13:07:19 < zyp> karlp, first time I hear about it
2022-04-27T13:07:45 < karlp> is the goal here to write a protobuf interface file, and have it generate "nice" bits for both host and target, instead of manually struct.unpacking shit?
2022-04-27T13:08:35 < zyp> karlp, hang on, I'll type up an example of what I want to be able to do
2022-04-27T13:19:08 < zyp> something kinda like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qasUD
2022-04-27T13:31:34 < karlp> yeah, this is the sort of shit I was pushing for 15 years ago in soap land.
2022-04-27T13:31:44 < karlp> to write the service documents first and generate both sides from it,
2022-04-27T13:31:58 < karlp> war, war never changes...
2022-04-27T13:32:16 < zyp> I mean, this is pretty much grpc
2022-04-27T13:32:25 < karlp> with less g.
2022-04-27T13:32:42 < karlp> and yeah, I wasn't the only one trying to do that sort of thing 15 years ago :)
2022-04-27T13:32:52 < karlp> plenty of people knew it was the right thing to be doing.
2022-04-27T13:33:01 < zyp> yeah, I'm not targetting http, I'm targetting arbitrary framed transports
2022-04-27T13:33:26 < zyp> usb, uart+framing, etc…
2022-04-27T13:33:29 < karlp> fun fact, soap actually had no requirement on being over http :) it'sjus that basically no ever binding was ever written...
2022-04-27T13:33:44 < karlp> it actually was layered in a way that iirc, it was even not required to be using xml....
2022-04-27T13:34:08 < karlp> they were really doing some biiiiiig sky thinking for a while there.
2022-04-27T13:34:30 < benishor> exactly
2022-04-27T13:34:36 < benishor> soap is much more than xml over http
2022-04-27T13:34:43 < karlp> then ms and oracle jus said "fuck it, no-one understands xml, we'll introspect the code and generate shitty namespaces based on your code structure"
2022-04-27T13:34:44 < benishor> soap also had routing included, security and all sorts of things
2022-04-27T13:35:13 < karlp> "it will be great, you'll just have to write a middleware translator to strip out namespaces and remap them to the other side, because you didn't use the same java package names on the other end...."
2022-04-27T13:35:28 < karlp> we can sell more copies of webmethods and make SAP people happy.
2022-04-27T13:35:35 < benishor> tbh I'd just use some json over whatever transport, except if it's not a request/response protocol you would need package delimiters
2022-04-27T13:35:43 < benishor> if you are to fetch stuff from streams
2022-04-27T13:38:27 < srk> that's framing
2022-04-27T13:39:04 < benishor> well, yes
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2022-04-27T14:06:50 < qyx> fuck json parsing on a microcontroller
2022-04-27T14:06:56 < qyx> we are not in 2030 yet
2022-04-27T14:08:19 < srk> with C++!
2022-04-27T14:08:30 < Steffanx> Watch your language qyx
2022-04-27T14:08:50 < qyx> zyp: I like that approach, keep me posted if you manage to reinvent something
2022-04-27T14:08:57 < qyx> Steffanx: sorry
2022-04-27T14:09:00 < qyx> but but
2022-04-27T14:09:40 < srk> reinvent :D
2022-04-27T14:10:18 < srk> I've used https://github.com/steinwurf/bourne recently on ESPs, HTTP and JSON on MCU is awful tho
2022-04-27T14:10:52 < srk> will just run out of stack if the response is too large as it does too much allocations
2022-04-27T14:11:15 < Steffanx> Json Bourne. Lol.
2022-04-27T14:11:24 < srk> :D
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2022-04-27T14:18:00 < zyp> there's messagepack, which is pretty much a binary json
2022-04-27T14:18:22 < karlp> should we use coap and cbor? no! it's the microcontrollers that are too small!
2022-04-27T14:18:47 < karlp> I did osme messagepack/bson/json/json+gz comparisons for work a few years ago, it's... not much of a saving in the end.
2022-04-27T14:18:57 < karlp> (if you gzip)
2022-04-27T14:20:05 < zyp> I wouldn't expect a big difference either, doesn't matter much if you use , or some other binary token as a delimiter :)
2022-04-27T14:20:39 < karlp> some years ago, data compression of course dependent somewhat on the format of that document.... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AiBjF.png
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2022-04-27T14:21:39 < karlp> don't ask me why bson was bigger than json, made no sense to me either...
2022-04-27T14:22:16 < zyp> size is one metric, serialization and deserialization times is two other
2022-04-27T14:22:18 < karlp> comparisons from whatever python libs would have been current in oct 2014.
2022-04-27T14:22:32 < karlp> in the context of the why I was doing it, the argument was purely size :)
2022-04-27T14:22:51 < karlp> but yes, ram useage and time and things are all very valid metrics...
2022-04-27T14:23:39 < qyx> I like the protobuf's IDL approach
2022-04-27T14:23:45 < zyp> the problem with json/messagepack/whatever is that keys are still ascii
2022-04-27T14:23:50 < qyx> sometimes it is better to avoid it though
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2022-04-27T14:24:13 < zyp> or I mean, you can do integer keys, but there's no built in translation between integer keys and their name
2022-04-27T14:26:04 < zyp> in protobuf the .proto contains the mapping, so you end up with binary keys and generated code letting you deal with actual names
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2022-04-27T14:31:13 * karlp ponders whether you you could compile a corba idl with protobuf compiler...
2022-04-27T14:35:07 < jpa-> zyp: the most performant way for figuring out length prefix of submessages is probably to generate from the iterator to stack buffer, and if the submessage is too long you can fall back to the double-recursion
2022-04-27T14:35:31 < zyp> how do you do it in nanopb?
2022-04-27T14:35:35 * benishor remembers an old alternative, wbxml
2022-04-27T14:35:43 < jpa-> the slow way, double-recursion
2022-04-27T14:37:13 < benishor> although wbxml has no real gain against protobuffers
2022-04-27T14:38:34 < zyp> I don't think double-recursion in itself would be too bad, issue is that recursive size() is O(n^2) wrt. depth if results aren't cached
2022-04-27T14:39:51 < jpa-> yeah - i do make the optimization that there is no need to write the actual data to sizing streams
2022-04-27T14:39:56 < zyp> I think if you get to the depth where that's an issue, you quickly get prohibitively large stack buffers as well, since you get one per level
2022-04-27T14:40:09 < jpa-> implementing something more performant has been on my todo for 12 years or so
2022-04-27T14:40:31 < benishor> <qyx> fuck json parsing on a microcontroller <- why would that be a problem?
2022-04-27T14:40:42 < benishor> event based parsers are quite low on resources
2022-04-27T14:41:02 < benishor> you don't store all document in memory
2022-04-27T14:41:14 < benishor> much like sax parsing for xml
2022-04-27T14:41:55 < jpa-> zyp: in another protobuf implementation i did privately for a client, i only implemented encoding to memory buffers, then it is easy to update the length prefix afterwards
2022-04-27T14:42:38 < benishor> jpa-: it's always a tradeoff between memory and cpu
2022-04-27T14:43:04 < zyp> jpa-, I think the most efficient implementation might be something like an Encoder class that gets instanced referencing a message instance, and then it contains children Encoder instances for children of the message instance
2022-04-27T14:43:08 < jpa-> sure, but some approaches are poor tradeoffs
2022-04-27T14:43:54 < benishor> indeed, which begs more information about zyp's usecase
2022-04-27T14:44:00 < benishor> typical message length, etc
2022-04-27T14:44:52 < zyp> each Encoder instance would then go and learn the size recursively and store it, avoiding calculating the size of a given message more than once
2022-04-27T14:45:24 < qyx> benishor: yes but the main concern nowadays is code readability and programmers psychical health
2022-04-27T14:46:05 < zyp> how do you update the length prefix afterwards given that it's a varint? padding?
2022-04-27T14:46:24 < zyp> hmm
2022-04-27T14:46:36 < zyp> one approach could be to build the message from the end to beginning
2022-04-27T14:46:50 < qyx> yes I did it that way
2022-04-27T14:47:02 < qyx> prepend varint when the length is known
2022-04-27T14:48:00 < zyp> you always know the size of a simple element, so you can reserve that from the end, then prepend tag, do that for all elements of inner submessage, then prepend size and tag for submessage
2022-04-27T14:48:43 < jpa-> yeah, end to beginning works, or just guess the length prefix size and memcpy() if the guess is wrong
2022-04-27T14:49:01 < zyp> memcpy() is expensive :)
2022-04-27T14:49:01 < jpa-> (or memmove() actually)
2022-04-27T14:49:09 < zyp> relatively speaking
2022-04-27T14:49:13 < jpa-> relatively yeah
2022-04-27T14:49:30 < zyp> end to beginning is faster, then just pick out relevant part of buffer afterwards
2022-04-27T14:51:35 < zyp> hmm, maybe that's a good approach, I'm starting to think I should keep the encoder implementation separate from the data structures so it can be swapped out depending on application
2022-04-27T14:58:16 < benishor> lower coupling is something to be desired, yes
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2022-04-27T15:02:42 < karlp> heh, reading a paper, "This scenario was run for 68,996 s, which is approximately 19 h and
2022-04-27T15:02:44 < karlp> 10 min"
2022-04-27T15:03:09 < karlp> I'm guessing that was, "I ran it overnight and eventually pressed ctrl-c on my script and have copied down what it said for how long it took"
2022-04-27T15:07:25 < benishor> :D
2022-04-27T15:08:26 < jpa-> or it crashed at 68997s, and they decided 68996 was enough
2022-04-27T15:24:53 < zyp> hmm, the self-describing parts of protobuf are cool too, I figure I could make a FileDescriptorSet of the whole rpc interface that can be queried from the rpc server
2022-04-27T15:25:48 < zyp> so instead of generating the whole client, it only needs a generic base and then it just goes and queries the server for which methods exist
2022-04-27T15:26:32 < zyp> given that python is dynamic, so all the types are defined during runtime anyway
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2022-04-27T15:37:29 < jpa-> zyp: the reflection and dynamic stuff in python protobuf library is quite crappy though, at least when it is using the C++ backend of the protobuf library
2022-04-27T15:38:10 < jpa-> it's probably better in recent versions, but it used to throw errors if you tried to create a dynamic message type with the same name twice in one python process
2022-04-27T15:38:31 < zyp> fair enough
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2022-04-27T15:54:01 < zyp> hmm, I'm kinda looking forward to C++23, std::expected looks damn convenient
2022-04-27T15:56:45 < ventYl> is introspection finalized yet?
2022-04-27T16:04:08 < karlp> heh, fucking love science https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gv47w.png
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2022-04-27T16:06:56 < karlp> they've successfully determined when cows are in heat automatically from strapping accelos to them
2022-04-27T16:08:25 < zyp> I think one of our customers are doing something similar with sheep
2022-04-27T16:08:35 < zyp> not sure about the details, I haven't been involved
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2022-04-27T16:10:54 < Steffanx> Heh same here. It does BLE too -_-
2022-04-27T16:11:02 < Steffanx> But we only did the hw, no firmware
2022-04-27T16:12:01 < Steffanx> Im not sure where the put the sensor, I recall under the skin.
2022-04-27T16:13:18 < karlp> these guys just strapped what looks like a D Cell inside a big plastic box on the collars.
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2022-04-27T16:21:28 < veverak> zyp: expected is library thing afaik
2022-04-27T16:21:40 < veverak> => you can have it before C++23
2022-04-27T16:21:50 < zyp> indeed
2022-04-27T16:38:37 < srk> haha, looks like less general either :D
2022-04-27T16:39:02 < srk> why not use rust at this point
2022-04-27T16:40:02 < zyp> either sounds like std::variant, C++ already got that
2022-04-27T16:42:23 < zyp> what std::expected adds is implicit conversion to/from the expected type, so that code still looks mostly the same as a function just returning a plain value, but with the ability to pass an «unexpected» error code instead
2022-04-27T16:43:18 < zyp> which seems like a convenient way to do error handling without resorting to exception
2022-04-27T16:44:27 < srk> so it is a specialized variant that only allows two types where one is used for errors with couple of convenience functions?
2022-04-27T16:44:35 < zyp> yep
2022-04-27T16:44:39 < qyx> hm, cows have those ear tags
2022-04-27T16:44:41 < srk> and variant is a type safe union
2022-04-27T16:44:42 < srk> :)
2022-04-27T16:44:49 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-27T16:45:06 < benishor> why not be explicit about it and return a tuple with an error and a variant?
2022-04-27T16:45:15 < srk> :D
2022-04-27T16:45:32 < benishor> union is nice but does not work with PODs
2022-04-27T16:46:03 < srk> zyp: `Either Error Result` is a common idiom for error handling without exception in functional world
2022-04-27T16:46:43 < zyp> no surprise it would be useful in C++ as well then :)
2022-04-27T16:46:45 < srk> but it's still kind-of specialized Either :)
2022-04-27T16:48:05 < srk> yeah, I'm just amused that by the weird name. reinventing goes a long way when it comes to procedural langs
2022-04-27T16:48:10 < zyp> std::optional is in the same family, it's sort of a union of a value type and void
2022-04-27T16:49:12 < srk> yep, in FP world it's called Maybe :)
2022-04-27T16:49:23 < zyp> the point of the name is that there's an expected type and an unexpected type; the former has implicit conversion and the latter requires explicit
2022-04-27T16:49:38 < srk> ah, ok
2022-04-27T16:51:28 < zyp> so you can do something like std::expected<uint8_t, error_t> get_nonblocking() { if(q.empty()) {Â return unexpedted(Underflow); } return q.pop(); }
2022-04-27T16:53:29 < ventYl> i kinda like this semantics
2022-04-27T16:53:41 < ventYl> exceptions look weird in case of trivial error handling
2022-04-27T16:54:52 < zyp> yeah, and C++ exceptions are too expensive as well
2022-04-27T16:56:45 < veverak> that's like the least of my problems with it
2022-04-27T16:57:11 < zyp> stack unrolling typically requires a binary search through the exception metadata, so it's fairly nontrivial
2022-04-27T16:57:24 < veverak> the problem with excp. in C++ is that it can too easily lead into invisible path in the code
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2022-04-27T16:59:54 < zyp> IMO forgetting to handle exceptions and letting them propagate up to a toplevel handler crashing the whole code is preferred to forgetting to check an error code, silently ignoring it and continuing on
2022-04-27T17:00:14 < zyp> the former case is more obvious and easier to track down and solve
2022-04-27T17:00:16 < veverak> except that you can easily avoid the second with [[nodiscard]]
2022-04-27T17:00:37 < veverak> like, with that you can't make the error of forgeting to check error
2022-04-27T17:01:32 < zyp> sure you can
2022-04-27T17:02:26 < veverak> how?
2022-04-27T17:03:41 < zyp> int size = foo(); for(int i = 0; i < size; i++) …
2022-04-27T17:04:04 < zyp> nothing warns you you're not checking if foo() returns a negative value to indicate an error :)
2022-04-27T17:04:29 < veverak> yeah, that is not what I was talkin about :)
2022-04-27T17:05:23 < zyp> I'm sure we both can cherry pick cases to support our arguments :)
2022-04-27T17:06:13 < zyp> I like exceptions in general, but for embedded C++ I've come to the conclusion they are too expensive
2022-04-27T17:08:19 < veverak> I am not sure about the expected tho
2022-04-27T17:08:34 < veverak> I implemented either<A,B> some time ago in the C++ and I was more ... strict with the API
2022-04-27T17:09:12 < veverak> (more strict API with less chances to access it incorrectly, but at the cost of ... "unusual syntax")
2022-04-27T18:13:17 < karlp> this just sounds like you end up with rusts .?maybe everywhere.
2022-04-27T18:14:21 < veverak> it's more wordy
2022-04-27T18:15:00 < veverak> the either has a bunch of methods with _lift/_right suffix that accepts callable (lambdas) that are "applied" to the internal value _if_ it is present
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2022-04-27T18:58:36 < karlp> fucking btle UUIDs being treated as string compares, and being case sensitve :|
2022-04-27T18:58:42 < karlp> who invented this shit...
2022-04-27T19:03:21 < Steffanx> "This shit" = ?
2022-04-27T19:04:00 < karlp> yarh, it's the bleak library supporting both strings and uuid.UUID objects, and the examples all using strings
2022-04-27T19:04:30 < karlp> but... if you pass it a string, it does a string compare with the string repr of the internal uuid object,
2022-04-27T19:04:41 < karlp> _not_ converting your str to a uuid and comparing teh uuids.
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2022-04-27T19:39:57 < qyx> 'str' object has no attribute 'removeprefix'
2022-04-27T19:40:00 < qyx> oh my python
2022-04-27T19:40:15 < qyx> apparently removeprefix is too new for raspbian
2022-04-27T19:40:31 < qyx> and, I hate not reporting exceptions from threads
2022-04-27T19:41:11 < qyx> python3 is already the newest version (3.7.3-1).
2022-04-27T19:45:22 < jpa-> yeah, removeprefix was added in python 3.9
2022-04-27T20:36:07 < emeb> Hah. Last night I coded up some python on my fedora 35 system using match/case. Try to run it on my fedora 34 system and it crashes.
2022-04-27T20:36:35 < emeb> match/case was introduced in python 3.10 but fedora 34 only has 3.9
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2022-04-27T21:30:10 < mawk> "only 3.9" debian has like 3.5 don't complain
2022-04-27T21:39:01 < zyp> bullshit
2022-04-27T21:40:11 < zyp> debian has had 3.9 in stable since bullseye were released last year
2022-04-27T21:41:14 < mawk> yes once a decade a new debian version gets released and then we get the latest python version at that time
2022-04-27T21:42:45 < zyp> five times a decade actually, there's been a new stable once every two years
2022-04-27T21:44:00 < zyp> and then there's a new python almost once a year, so there's roughly two python releases per debian release
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2022-04-27T21:46:30 < zyp> my rule of thumb is that once something is available in debian stable, it has good enough availability to use
2022-04-27T21:46:54 < zyp> so I'm holding off on getting into match/case for another year and change :)
2022-04-27T22:22:00 < kakium69> I use debian stable in wsl
2022-04-27T22:22:26 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bYxo72GdDo mjusik
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2022-04-27T22:38:23 < fenugrec> does ##stm32 prefer astyle or clang-format or other tools to unify formatting in misc C sources ?
2022-04-27T22:39:21 < fenugrec> astyle --style=1tbs is probably mostly ok for me
2022-04-27T22:39:33 < fenugrec> but sometimes I like to indent #ifdef blocks
2022-04-27T22:43:47 < Steffanx> i dont format misc C sources automagically.
2022-04-27T22:45:30 < ventYl> I used to hate MISRA code style. Now I am working on project in completely different domain and their coding style is such a mess, that I would probably prefer MISRA rules here
2022-04-27T22:46:36 < fenugrec> Steffanx, you never end up with amix of spaces / tabs, inconsistent bracing etc ?
2022-04-27T22:47:51 < qyx> never ever
2022-04-27T22:48:04 < qyx> I have enough OCPD to not need such tool
2022-04-27T22:48:44 < qyx> I can recognise a misplaced brace from 10 m using a 8 pt monospace font
2022-04-27T22:51:10 < fenugrec> well, I'm sometimes guilty of copypasting stuff from misc sources, but misaligned indents gives me heartburn
2022-04-27T22:54:08 < kakium69> what font you uses?
2022-04-27T22:54:24 < kakium69> I have heard pros hand pick some unique monospace for themselfs
2022-04-27T22:55:17 < fenugrec> I like terminus
2022-04-27T22:55:45 < fenugrec> but comic sans is a close second
2022-04-27T23:01:54 < qyx> Noto Sans Mono SemiCondensed 9pt
2022-04-27T23:04:22 < benishor> I used to use astyle but switched to clang-format lately
2022-04-27T23:04:44 < benishor> and I'm totally for automagically code formatting, especially when working with other people
2022-04-27T23:05:12 < benishor> formatting can be enforced with a git hook
2022-04-27T23:05:24 < benishor> and you lower the surprises for everybody
2022-04-27T23:05:25 < ventYl> vim can do reformatting of pasted code automagically
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--- Day changed to huhti 28 2022
2022-04-28T00:08:01 < kakium69> catphish: how projects?
2022-04-28T00:08:57 < catphish> kakium69: very very slow. battery box still not finished, awaiting delivery of steel
2022-04-28T00:10:08 < kakium69> clamp down bars?
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2022-04-28T00:17:18 < kakium69> you might need pretensioning in form of slight parabolic profile between frame and box and on bottom side of clamp down bars
2022-04-28T00:18:15 < kakium69> or just rubber foam
2022-04-28T00:21:30 < catphish> kakium69: yeah, the clamp down bars, hopefully the final part
2022-04-28T00:21:56 < kakium69> how big?
2022-04-28T00:22:16 < catphish> kakium69: i'm going to use rubber foam on the top bars, i might not bother with bottom bars at all, just large washers
2022-04-28T00:22:45 < kakium69> ah those round shims
2022-04-28T00:22:53 < catphish> the bars will be 20mm x 20mm box
2022-04-28T00:23:13 < kakium69> thickness?
2022-04-28T00:23:21 < catphish> i ordered 20mm x 10mm but it was insuffciently rigid
2022-04-28T00:23:29 < catphish> now waiting for 20mm x 20mm
2022-04-28T00:24:00 < catphish> the washers underneath will be the largest i can find with 8mm holes :)
2022-04-28T00:24:42 < catphish> or i may cut squares of 3mm steel
2022-04-28T00:24:57 < catphish> (and drill 8mm holes in the middle)
2022-04-28T00:25:19 < kakium69> if 20mm x 10mm was vertically oriented I don't see much difference using 20mm x 20mm unless material thickness is larger
2022-04-28T00:25:49 < catphish> kakium69: yes, orienting the 20mm x 10mm could have offered the same rigidity, but it wouldn't fit well
2022-04-28T00:27:01 < catphish> it needs to have room for the 8mm threaded bar to come up through it, and a nut to fit inside
2022-04-28T00:27:08 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-28T00:27:14 < kakium69> clever
2022-04-28T00:27:31 < catphish> to the bottom will be drilled 8mm, and top much larger
2022-04-28T00:27:34 < catphish> *so the
2022-04-28T00:28:14 < catphish> the but will be inside, allowin the rigidity of the 20mm height, but without adding any additional height
2022-04-28T00:28:30 < catphish> *the nut
2022-04-28T00:28:36 * catphish needs to type slower
2022-04-28T00:31:01 < catphish> i'm actually really frustrated with this battery box now, it's set me back weeks
2022-04-28T00:31:18 < catphish> if the space were just a few mm larger it would have been easy
2022-04-28T00:31:20 < kakium69> well
2022-04-28T00:31:31 < kakium69> it's the major component
2022-04-28T00:31:42 < kakium69> of the project
2022-04-28T00:31:54 < catphish> yes, i suppose it is, i'm not even that happy with the design, but it should work
2022-04-28T00:32:40 < catphish> it will be fine once it's assembled, but doing so is tricky!
2022-04-28T00:50:11 < kakium69> how do I debug my static_asserts some of which keep failing no matter what?
2022-04-28T00:50:24 < kakium69> easiest way to see what values those expressions result into?
2022-04-28T00:52:06 < kakium69> ah nevermind I found the problem
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2022-04-28T02:04:12 < zyp> jpa-, I did a thing: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/rrAMF
2022-04-28T02:08:21 < zyp> also bool
2022-04-28T02:12:45 < karlp> ffs, that's the epitomy of why people talk shit about c++ :)
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2022-04-28T02:13:15 < zyp> haha
2022-04-28T02:15:38 < qyx> I was about to say I don't understand it and it looks overly complicated, but I decided to not mess with things I don't understand
2022-04-28T02:15:57 < karlp> man,I was going nuts here, ws thinking I had SI problems on my leads, was about to break out the scope, but no, debug mode was just disabled on this part...
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2022-04-28T02:17:42 < zyp> qyx, interesting part is on the bottom, scalar_base is the base type for protobuf scalars, encapsulating some regular scalar type
2022-04-28T02:18:11 < zyp> eventually I'll add conversion stuff to it so it can be implicitly converted to regular types and back
2022-04-28T02:18:51 < zyp> the rest of the stuff are encoders for the various encodings protobuf uses
2022-04-28T02:19:31 < zyp> and then to make up all the protobuf types, just stick the appropriate value type and encoder into scalar_base
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2022-04-28T02:27:12 < kakium69> could I use template to control if method have atomic blocks?
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2022-04-28T02:31:33 < kakium69> it has 3 occurances in interrupts but I see one place it could be used outside interrupts
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2022-04-28T02:33:34 < kakium69> sure asm could be passed through template
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2022-04-28T02:39:41 < kakium69> thats it!!
2022-04-28T02:41:41 < kakium69> make a contstexpr structs with 2 char arrays
2022-04-28T02:43:45 < kakium69> this is assuming inline assembler will just eat any null terminated string
2022-04-28T02:45:54 < kakium69> and that inline assembler doesn't require any instructions
2022-04-28T02:49:07 * qyx opening a 2.1 GB text file in vim
2022-04-28T02:50:40 < qyx> oh faster than I though, about 15 seconds
2022-04-28T02:52:35 < kakium69> try notepad.exe
2022-04-28T02:53:22 < kakium69> I think it crashes before even exceeding 1MB
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2022-04-28T03:27:48 < karlp> lol, all optimized out :) https://paste.jvnv.net/view/4e4Go
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2022-04-28T03:30:45 < zyp> sounds like everything is working like intended :)
2022-04-28T03:30:53 < karlp> yeah, ish :)
2022-04-28T03:30:56 < karlp> I mean, yes....
2022-04-28T03:31:00 < karlp> but also....
2022-04-28T03:31:04 < zyp> apart from the fact you're in blocking handler, of course
2022-04-28T03:31:07 < karlp> I didn't even turn on any interrupts...
2022-04-28T03:31:21 < karlp> ch58x is _totally_ different from ch32v307 :)
2022-04-28T03:31:30 < zyp> haha
2022-04-28T03:31:31 < karlp> 8bit peripheral heritage really shining through.
2022-04-28T03:31:48 < karlp> register descriptions like, "here's a spare bit for your the dear user!"
2022-04-28T03:31:54 < karlp> ... thanks...
2022-04-28T03:32:08 < zyp> I'm worried about that
2022-04-28T03:32:31 < zyp> last time I dealt with 8-bit designed peripherals were the usb core on lm4f and I didn't enjoy that :p
2022-04-28T03:33:02 < karlp> currently just trying to poke the clock a bit,
2022-04-28T03:33:15 < karlp> the equivalent of the rcc clock config registers need to be "unlocked"
2022-04-28T03:33:30 < karlp> but unlike stm32 rtc bakup shit, it's only unlocked for 16 clocks.
2022-04-28T03:33:40 < qyx> lol
2022-04-28T03:33:41 < karlp> so need to be careful with stepping...
2022-04-28T03:34:02 < karlp> but at least I hve the wires all in the right place.
2022-04-28T03:34:16 < karlp> getting a bit tired of the binary openocd being unreliable and crashing a lot though.
2022-04-28T03:34:36 < karlp> normally only get a single "load" before I hve to restart,
2022-04-28T03:34:46 < karlp> and have to use compare-sections a lot to make sure it _realllly_ did what it said.
2022-04-28T03:35:23 < karlp> I'm going to have to write a "vecstate" for this pfic thing pretty soon I think....
2022-04-28T03:36:53 < karlp> ok, apparently I have an ECALL_U interrupt..
2022-04-28T03:36:58 < karlp> I wonder where that came from.
2022-04-28T03:37:29 < zyp> is that a thing?
2022-04-28T03:37:37 * karlp has no idea :)
2022-04-28T03:38:07 < karlp> this is my _first_ time digging into an unhandled irq on riscv :)
2022-04-28T03:38:15 < karlp> and not just any riscv, wch-pfic!
2022-04-28T03:39:14 < zyp> I'm just thinking U sounds like a different privilege level
2022-04-28T03:39:43 < zyp> which I'm not sure is implemented, and which I'm pretty sure is not enabled at least
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2022-04-28T03:51:36 < karlp> can't say I'm a fan of having the sys clcok config register not match the docs on reset value.
2022-04-28T03:51:42 < karlp> everything else matches.
2022-04-28T03:51:52 < karlp> doesn't give me confidence that the clock is right...
2022-04-28T03:59:21 < karlp> it's pretty fun when the registers are in..... jumble order too: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NZnu2.png
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2022-04-28T05:32:51 < karlp> whee, uart out on ch582.
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2022-04-28T09:04:00 < jpa-> zyp: looks nice :)
2022-04-28T09:05:03 < jpa-> zyp: once you get to submessages i'll want to see what you figure out for iterating over all fields of struct
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2022-04-28T09:35:21 < zyp> jpa-, when generating, you mean?
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2022-04-28T09:41:47 < jpa-> zyp: when implementing encoder / decoder for messages; i assume you'll end up generating some kind of list of member pointers or something, but i don't know how that works for templates - or maybe you'll just implement a function that calls msg.field1.encode(); msg.field2.encode(); ... in order?
2022-04-28T09:42:29 < zyp> yeah, either that, or maybe output a tuple of references
2022-04-28T09:43:41 < zyp> tuple of references has the advantage I only have to generate it once and can iterate over it both when finding size and when encoding
2022-04-28T09:44:08 < zyp> but for decoding I think the most efficient solution is generating a switch statement
2022-04-28T09:57:51 < jpa-> if you are really fancy, you could have something like switch (tag) { case 1: decode_field1(); read_tag(); if (tag != 2) break; case 2: ... } to benefit from the canonical order
2022-04-28T09:58:06 < jpa-> but probably not worth it
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2022-04-28T10:24:06 < zyp> cute thought, but there's repeated fields too
2022-04-28T11:16:19 < jpa-> true
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2022-04-28T11:16:56 < jpa-> do { decode_field1(); read_tag(); } while (tag == 1); if (tag != 2) break; :)
2022-04-28T11:17:44 < zyp> haha
2022-04-28T11:19:34 < zyp> how would you handle tags for a field that exists, but got the wrong size type in the tag?
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2022-04-28T11:20:23 < jpa-> probably need some place to store tag and wire type, and the decoder function would need to check the wire type first
2022-04-28T11:20:39 < jpa-> or alternatively, just make the tag be the tag + wiretype
2022-04-28T11:20:45 < zyp> I'm thinking about matching on the whole tag including type, so that wrong type ends up in the same default path as unknown field and gets skipped
2022-04-28T11:20:45 < jpa-> so instead of 1 it is the 0x08 or whatever
2022-04-28T11:20:51 < jpa-> yeah
2022-04-28T11:20:53 < jpa-> sounds smart
2022-04-28T11:21:11 < jpa-> i wonder why nanopb doesn't do it that way
2022-04-28T11:21:28 < zyp> it's less code, but means type errors are silently ignored rather than reported
2022-04-28T11:22:10 < jpa-> true
2022-04-28T11:22:19 < zyp> and I'm not sure whether that's a good thing
2022-04-28T11:26:54 < zyp> hrm, gcc10 doesn't have std::bit_cast
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2022-04-28T12:27:29 < zyp> jpa-, something like this for encoding messages: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/MuMJm
2022-04-28T12:32:25 < jpa-> zyp: perhaps you could have a fancy size-counting iterator so that you don't need a whole separate path for sizing
2022-04-28T12:33:19 < zyp> I could, but I think that'd be less efficient
2022-04-28T12:33:49 < zyp> that's stuff to be done after a benchmark exists and efficiency can be measured :p
2022-04-28T12:45:58 < rajkosto> why cant i use base types in c++20 mode without fully qualifying them ? https://pastebin.com/jLt2aKf2
2022-04-28T13:01:20 < zyp> jpa-, also decoding: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/N5lvy
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2022-04-28T14:31:39 < karlp> well, we got openocd source from mounriver, whee...
2022-04-28T14:31:51 < karlp> it's gross and I don't want to touch it of course :)
2022-04-28T14:32:01 < karlp> but at least it explains a lot about why it's shaky and unreliable.
2022-04-28T14:57:51 < rkta> I'm surprised they actually answered
2022-04-28T15:05:59 < qyx> will ju try to upstream?
2022-04-28T15:06:29 < qyx> ju lol
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2022-04-28T15:49:01 < karlp> me? fuck no, not at this point
2022-04-28T15:49:14 < karlp> it's based off the riscv fork, and it has lots of gross bits,
2022-04-28T15:49:23 < karlp> but progress.
2022-04-28T15:49:48 < karlp> I may at least consider fixing some of the bits that bother me the most,
2022-04-28T15:49:49 < karlp> but I'll probably just use it to poke them more on more docs...
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2022-04-28T16:54:50 < catphish> yay i got car insurance!
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2022-04-28T17:25:01 < karlp> pretttttty fucking close to tossing bluez in the bin and just saying "nobody gets bluetooth on this system but me!"
2022-04-28T17:41:24 < srk> rfkill it
2022-04-28T17:43:59 < karlp> that's.... not at all what I want to do :)
2022-04-28T17:51:53 < specing> catphish: someone insured your conversion?
2022-04-28T17:52:08 < specing> was it more/less expensive than normal?
2022-04-28T18:16:05 < catphish> specing: yes, probably about twice as expensive as normal
2022-04-28T18:16:15 < specing> :(
2022-04-28T18:16:32 < catphish> specing: this isn't problematic or unexpected really, i'm just happy anyone insured it at all
2022-04-28T18:16:43 < specing> and insurance is mandatory?
2022-04-28T18:17:18 < catphish> yes, insurance against damage and injury to other people is compulsory here (and i assume everywhere)
2022-04-28T18:17:47 < specing> what does it take to make your own insurance company? :P
2022-04-28T18:17:59 < catphish> and obviously a home made car poses a much greater risk of causing an accident
2022-04-28T18:33:32 < BrainDamage> a fuckload of money
2022-04-28T18:37:17 < BrainDamage> all car insurance here need to be able to reimburse up to 1M damages
2022-04-28T18:37:38 < BrainDamage> so you need at least 1M social capital ... to have a single client
2022-04-28T18:38:11 < BrainDamage> granted, it doesn't scale linearry, but you still need a portion for each client
2022-04-28T18:49:10 < catphish> it's now £1.2M minimum in the UK i believe
2022-04-28T18:49:59 < catphish> you used to be able to self-insure, ie to put a deposit of £500,000 with gov.uk, but this is no longer allowed either
2022-04-28T18:50:23 < catphish> it also doesn't make sense, since the cost of insurance is much less than the interest on £500,000
2022-04-28T18:50:52 < catphish> (except in cases where nobody would insure you)
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2022-04-28T19:56:15 < Steffanx> 2
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2022-04-28T22:13:53 < upgrdman> any wifi pros awake? when transfer data between two devices on the same wifi network, is wifi smart enough to transfer directly between those devices, or does it do device1 -> router -> device2 ? e.g. does 100Mbps of data result in 100Mbps or 200Mbps of bandwidth usage?
2022-04-28T22:14:47 < upgrdman> when transfering between my phone and my laptop, my 802.11ac setup seems to only do 200-300Mbps, which seems kinda slow since both devices have line-of-site to the router
2022-04-28T22:15:06 < upgrdman> guessing 11ax would help (both of my devices support 11ax)
2022-04-28T22:16:11 < upgrdman> also kinda sad to see that moust routers these days are STILL just 1Gbps ethernet. wtf isnt 2.5G/5G/10G common yet :/
2022-04-28T22:28:53 < jpa-> AFAIK all traffic goes through access point
2022-04-28T22:30:19 < mawk> it goes through access point in regular wifi upgrdman
2022-04-28T22:30:25 < mawk> in mesh stuff it might be different
2022-04-28T22:30:41 < upgrdman> k
2022-04-28T22:31:08 < jpa-> also if you make your laptop or phone into access point :)
2022-04-28T22:31:28 < upgrdman> ya that might be a good experiment lol
2022-04-28T22:32:37 < mawk> the channel matters also upgrdman
2022-04-28T22:32:47 < mawk> it could be a 802.11ac setup on a low bitrate channel setup
2022-04-28T22:32:58 < mawk> type "iwconfig"
2022-04-28T22:33:04 < upgrdman> not on linux
2022-04-28T22:33:05 < mawk> it will tell you the channel bitrate
2022-04-28T22:33:06 < mawk> ah
2022-04-28T22:33:10 < upgrdman> but ya i'll check
2022-04-28T22:33:16 < mawk> then I don't know how to display on windows but it's probably in the GUI status page
2022-04-28T22:33:21 < upgrdman> i know both are on 5ghz, but not sure about channel size
2022-04-28T22:33:25 < upgrdman> ya
2022-04-28T22:36:07 < mawk> there might be something wrong with my bitrate display: Bit Rate=-2.13367e+06 kb/s
2022-04-28T22:36:21 < mawk> negative Gbp
2022-04-28T22:36:24 < mawk> Gbps
2022-04-28T22:38:24 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2022-04-28T22:54:08 < Steffanx> lol mawk. your math is broken
2022-04-28T23:05:25 < qyx> great, IIS3DHHC is not in stock but the eval board is
2022-04-28T23:05:28 < qyx> for the same price
2022-04-28T23:05:48 < mawk> time for some desoldering
2022-04-28T23:05:55 < mawk> the same price?
2022-04-28T23:06:11 < mawk> the eval board of the LTE-M chip I'm implementing is like $500
2022-04-28T23:06:16 < mawk> and 3 months lead time
2022-04-28T23:06:29 < mawk> so I'm making a deadbug soldered breakout board instead
2022-04-28T23:06:32 < qyx> wich lte-m
2022-04-28T23:06:38 < mawk> sara-r510
2022-04-28T23:06:40 < mawk> from ublox
2022-04-28T23:06:41 < qyx> weren't you doing nb-iot?
2022-04-28T23:06:44 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-28T23:06:51 < mawk> it's dual band
2022-04-28T23:06:52 < qyx> oh keep me posted
2022-04-28T23:06:54 < mawk> lte-m and nb-iot
2022-04-28T23:07:10 < mawk> because we're expanding to france and their nb-iot coverage is a bit shit in somem areas
2022-04-28T23:07:21 < qyx> I will probably prohibit using quacktel and simcom
2022-04-28T23:07:31 < mawk> lol
2022-04-28T23:07:47 < mawk> my only experience with simcom is gsm model with plain AT commands
2022-04-28T23:07:50 < mawk> and bad datasheets
2022-04-28T23:07:52 < qyx> so the only reasonable alternative is ublox which is 5x the price
2022-04-28T23:07:56 < qyx> of sim7000e
2022-04-28T23:08:11 < mawk> maybe 5× the quality?
2022-04-28T23:08:20 < qyx> or 5x more bugs
2022-04-28T23:08:25 < mawk> lol
2022-04-28T23:08:26 < mawk> also the local ublox reseller is answering our technical questions
2022-04-28T23:08:31 < mawk> maybe it's something normal, but it's nice
2022-04-28T23:08:40 < mawk> I can spam him and he goes slaving away reading the documentation for me
2022-04-28T23:09:35 < qyx> although swiss people are currently on par with chinese wrt current world affairs
2022-04-28T23:16:20 < upgrdman> wut are the swiss up to?
2022-04-28T23:27:55 < mawk> no good
2022-04-28T23:54:10 -!- HelloShitty [~psysc0rpi@bl20-171-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2022-04-28T23:57:40 < Steffanx> Yes tct what are you up to?
--- Day changed pe huhti 29 2022
2022-04-29T00:04:05 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@host-185-69-72-54.kaisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-29T00:04:15 < kakium69> morgon
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2022-04-29T00:07:09 < kakium69> howproject catphish
2022-04-29T00:07:21 < kakium69> how to basic
2022-04-29T00:07:57 < catphish> mein project is no different to how it's been for the last week :( awaiting materials which are due in tomorrow, i will be resuming work at the weekend
2022-04-29T00:08:26 < catphish> kakium69: on the plus side, as of today i now have insurance for it
2022-04-29T00:08:45 < catphish> so can legally drive on road when it's ready
2022-04-29T00:09:14 < kakium69> I drove 300km to test a moped
2022-04-29T00:09:54 < kakium69> smc 690 is fun city moped
2022-04-29T00:11:53 < kakium69> fun lights to lights brrrraaaaaarrr bbbbbmm
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2022-04-29T00:12:40 < kakium69> I'm at ev guys place now he is building ev opel too
2022-04-29T00:13:43 < kakium69> it's not speedster though
2022-04-29T00:15:09 < catphish> which opel?
2022-04-29T00:16:11 < kakium69> it's something wagon something b chassis or something and something v6 3.6 170hp or something
2022-04-29T00:16:54 < kakium69> around 2000s
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2022-04-29T00:19:13 < kakium69> it has that rounder look
2022-04-29T00:20:15 < catphish> haha v6 3.6 170hp, it's hard to imagine such a poorly tuned engine in europe
2022-04-29T00:20:24 < kakium69> it's gm
2022-04-29T00:20:39 < kakium69> it was 3.something
2022-04-29T00:20:57 < catphish> actually open did have some detuned (and extremely reliable) engines
2022-04-29T00:21:08 < catphish> like my speedster, it's a 2.2L with 140HP
2022-04-29T00:21:20 < kakium69> he drops gh450 hybrid gearbox in it
2022-04-29T00:21:33 < catphish> but that's hilareously untuned by modern EU standards
2022-04-29T00:21:48 < catphish> my wife's car is 1.4L 190HP :)
2022-04-29T00:21:57 < kakium69> interestings that speedster is not that expensive car
2022-04-29T00:22:26 < catphish> kakium69: it was inexpensive because the spec is so basic and there just physically isn't much of it
2022-04-29T00:22:55 < kakium69> in funland those are just 20k when I looked in winter
2022-04-29T00:22:56 < catphish> it has all the minimalism of the lotus elise, but without the markup afforded by the lotus badge
2022-04-29T00:23:07 < kakium69> yo-ros
2022-04-29T00:23:10 < catphish> they cost as much now as they did new :)
2022-04-29T00:23:24 < kakium69> lotus?
2022-04-29T00:23:32 < catphish> no, the speedster
2022-04-29T00:23:52 < kakium69> hmm maybe I didn't look right car or remember price wrong
2022-04-29T00:23:56 < kakium69> maybe it was 40k
2022-04-29T00:24:33 < catphish> it was 22,980 new
2022-04-29T00:24:36 < catphish> in 2001
2022-04-29T00:25:09 < catphish> maybe not quite as expensive now, most are around 15,000
2022-04-29T00:25:13 < kakium69> wtf there was 4 examples for sale in funland in winter
2022-04-29T00:25:18 < kakium69> now - non
2022-04-29T00:25:43 < kakium69> I'm suprised there is 4 speedsters in the country
2022-04-29T00:25:45 < catphish> they rare, and a lot more desirable in summer
2022-04-29T00:26:14 < catphish> there were 420 on the road in the uk last year
2022-04-29T00:26:57 < kakium69> have you ever seen one in wild?
2022-04-29T00:27:19 < catphish> apart from my own?
2022-04-29T00:27:25 < kakium69> yes
2022-04-29T00:27:28 < catphish> no
2022-04-29T00:29:18 < kakium69> 22k as new how..
2022-04-29T00:30:01 < kakium69> wasnt that the price of average sedan in 2001
2022-04-29T00:30:15 < catphish> i'm not sure, sounds plausible
2022-04-29T00:30:23 < catphish> this is a lot smaller and simpler than an average sedan though
2022-04-29T00:31:41 < kakium69> does it have any race car properties?
2022-04-29T00:33:55 < catphish> it does
2022-04-29T00:34:09 < catphish> it's light, the engine is in the middle
2022-04-29T00:34:43 < kakium69> suspension is hard
2022-04-29T00:34:53 < catphish> i'm not expert on car manufacture, but to the best of my knowledge, this doesn't cost anything
2022-04-29T00:35:08 < catphish> about the only "uprated" part it has is the suspension
2022-04-29T00:36:21 < catphish> the cost is more about 1) recouping the development cost over a fairly small production run and 2) the small number of uprated parts
2022-04-29T00:36:56 < catphish> the speedster is a bit of a cheat on the first front, because they mostly use lotus's design, with standard opel parts :)
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2022-04-29T00:39:19 < kakium69> nobody does sportcars in that way anymore right?
2022-04-29T00:39:58 < kakium69> is there any to say.. 30-40k option that is build to price
2022-04-29T00:40:24 < catphish> cheapest sports car is usually MX5
2022-04-29T00:41:00 < catphish> basic model Mazda MX5 is £25,000
2022-04-29T00:41:32 < ventYl> IIRC, it was once available for like 14k eur?
2022-04-29T00:41:35 < ventYl> or maybe a bit more
2022-04-29T00:41:40 < catphish> very likely
2022-04-29T00:41:57 < ventYl> the latest ND with basic engine
2022-04-29T00:42:07 < catphish> cars are more expensive because 1) inflation 2) increasing regulatory requirements for safety features
2022-04-29T00:42:16 < ventYl> I drove it, cool car, comfortable, yet nimble
2022-04-29T00:42:26 < catphish> MX5 is widely loved
2022-04-29T00:42:32 < kakium69> any others than mx5
2022-04-29T00:42:38 < catphish> personally i don't much like sports cars :)
2022-04-29T00:42:45 < ventYl> I would probably also buy one if I had garage for it
2022-04-29T00:42:52 < kakium69> I have never driven one
2022-04-29T00:43:06 < ventYl> kakium69: do you have too much money?
2022-04-29T00:43:10 < kakium69> ventYl: what is nd?
2022-04-29T00:43:23 < catphish> hot hatches provide similar value/performance but i prefer the comfort of them
2022-04-29T00:43:26 < ventYl> ND is internal designation for 4th gen of Mazda MX5
2022-04-29T00:43:34 < kakium69> ah
2022-04-29T00:43:53 < ventYl> NA good, NB so-so, NC trash, ND uber-cool
2022-04-29T00:44:46 < catphish> it remains good value, in part because they just build on the same platform each time
2022-04-29T00:45:02 < catphish> just adding the necessary new features of the day
2022-04-29T00:45:30 < ventYl> NC was an attempt to make a universal car, that's why it is not as good
2022-04-29T00:45:37 < ventYl> essentially in MX5 lineup it is trash
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2022-04-29T01:00:06 < kakium69> arent sportscars trash?
2022-04-29T01:07:34 < kakium69> dodgy build and finish, manual windows are a feature, looks from 80 or 90s, rare platform might not have spare parts available, not that much power
2022-04-29T01:08:31 < kakium69> what do you like about dx corolla 2.0 ventYl?
2022-04-29T01:15:18 < kakium69> I have heard about sick 500hp builds
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2022-04-29T03:46:03 < karlp> heh, wch link does _not_ like me sweeping the clock speeds.
2022-04-29T03:46:16 < zyp> haha
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2022-04-29T03:49:57 < karlp> I have to use compare-sections a lot, because it's flaky as shit,
2022-04-29T03:50:07 < karlp> but something in compare-sectins releases the target and it starts running
2022-04-29T03:50:13 < karlp> which does not improve things.
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2022-04-29T03:50:42 < zyp> unreliable tools like that drive me crazy
2022-04-29T03:50:44 < karlp> trying to work out how much of this shit: https://github.com/openwch/ch583/blob/main/EVT/EXAM/SRC/StdPeriphDriver/CH58x_sys.c#L63-L114 is actually required...
2022-04-29T03:51:12 < karlp> until I started sweepign clocks it was pretty reliable "one flash, restart twice, "
2022-04-29T03:51:20 < karlp> but now it's all over the shop
2022-04-29T03:51:58 < zyp> being reliably shit isn't all that much better than being unreliable :)
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2022-04-29T03:52:44 < karlp> no, but it hadn't been such a headache before..
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2022-04-29T04:06:51 < karlp> hrm, doing something wrong with the tx uart fifo too, butthat's a different issue :)
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2022-04-29T09:23:11 < ventYl> kakium69: the only corolla I know is brother's 1997 basic 1.3 litre corolla which is probably not what you are asking for :)
2022-04-29T09:23:48 < ventYl> in general I know almost nothing about japanese cars, maybe except a bit of RX7
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2022-04-29T12:46:18 < karlp> no gcc source, "We are sorry to inform you : Currently MRS and GCC are in the development of a new version, we are temporarily unable to provide GCC source code."
2022-04-29T12:46:28 < karlp> riiiight
2022-04-29T12:53:15 < Steffanx> Lol
2022-04-29T13:06:33 < zyp> do you really need it?
2022-04-29T13:06:46 < karlp> no, not really.
2022-04-29T13:06:49 < zyp> can't you just ignore that special interrupt bullshit?
2022-04-29T13:07:02 < karlp> I am, and I'm pretty sure it's fine, but I'd still like to see it :)
2022-04-29T13:07:04 < zyp> if I understood you correctly it's an optional optimalization
2022-04-29T13:07:17 < karlp> that's my understanding too,
2022-04-29T13:07:36 < karlp> but I'm going to push them a little bit if they're on this "we're open, all open source" track.
2022-04-29T13:07:44 < karlp> that "only our private forked gcc" isn't really open....
2022-04-29T13:07:54 < zyp> reasonable enough, gcc is gpl after all
2022-04-29T13:07:59 < karlp> correct.
2022-04-29T13:08:19 < karlp> but yes, interrupts work for me in direct mode,
2022-04-29T13:08:40 < karlp> ran out of time last night to try "plain" vectored mode, which is still one of the riscv specced modes,
2022-04-29T13:09:02 < karlp> without getting into the two extra WCH modes that I would then like to see their gcc code for.
2022-04-29T13:09:57 < karlp> one thing I was thinking of was a desire for something like rust traits, so that I can have the same API interface on the "uarts" and also with stm32 code.
2022-04-29T13:10:20 < karlp> without just doing more if (type) constexprs in the stm32 code...
2022-04-29T13:10:57 < karlp> basically, I wanted to do a "auto my_uart = UART1; initial_syscalls_write(my_uart)";
2022-04-29T13:11:19 < karlp> and have the syscalls setup get either the STM32 usart type, or a x16550 type, or whatever,
2022-04-29T13:11:26 < zyp> traits being the interface description?
2022-04-29T13:11:30 < karlp> yeah,
2022-04-29T13:11:38 < zyp> sounds like C++20 concepts
2022-04-29T13:11:41 < karlp> currently I've just "used the same names" so it works
2022-04-29T13:11:45 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-29T13:12:02 < zyp> concepts is a way to enforce it
2022-04-29T13:12:14 < zyp> I'm playing with it in the protobuf code
2022-04-29T13:12:26 < karlp> like I wanted https://github.com/karlp/l2-krv-miniblink/blob/main/src/miniblink1.cpp#L60 to be in the "syscalls" file, not dropped into main.cpp
2022-04-29T13:12:42 < karlp> but I didn't have a good way of passing in the uart handle, without a "type" of some sort.
2022-04-29T13:13:33 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Qrkgc <- the template argument types here are concepts
2022-04-29T13:14:25 < karlp> I can't read that any better today than last time you pasted it :)
2022-04-29T13:14:30 < zyp> e.g. std::input_iterator is a concept that matches a type that you can do *it++ on to receive values
2022-04-29T13:14:38 < karlp> so I'm goign back to getting the blues from bluez and python for the rest of the day I think :)
2022-04-29T13:15:35 < zyp> std::signed_integral and std::unsigned_integral are also concepts matching any integer type of the corrected signedness
2022-04-29T13:16:35 < zyp> so it's effectively a way to restrict a template to only accept types matching a particular criteria
2022-04-29T13:17:41 < zyp> which means that it's possible to define a uart concept, and then write functions accepting any type implementing the uart interface
2022-04-29T13:18:51 < zyp> and if you try passing in something not matching the concept, the compiler will give you a sane error telling that the concept is not satisfied, rather than a cryptic error when it tries doing something the type doesn't support
2022-04-29T13:22:41 < zyp> in the varint encoder, the actual encoding function accepts std::unsigned_integral, because I only want to do the shifting and stuff on an unsigned type
2022-04-29T13:24:52 < zyp> and then there's another one that accepts std::signed_integral, which converts any signed type to an uint64_t with the correct representation, and passes it off to the unsigned implementation to do the actual encoding
2022-04-29T13:25:26 < zyp> and conversely for decoders
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2022-04-29T15:39:05 < zyp> jpa-, started on the generator too: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Vu0oT https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6gJ02
2022-04-29T15:47:38 < zyp> passing protobufs through stdin/stdout is kinda clever, I figure that should be the first rpc transport I implement too :)
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2022-04-29T17:39:52 < Sadale> Asking for a friend. "does anyone know how to recover a threaded screw that broke off in the chamber"
2022-04-29T17:45:07 < jpa-> hole?
2022-04-29T17:45:29 < jpa-> unthreaded screws are usually called nails :)
2022-04-29T17:47:20 < zyp> I broke a wheel bolt when changing tires the other day
2022-04-29T17:47:42 < zyp> fuck getting the rest out, I ordered a new hub instead :p
2022-04-29T17:47:51 < karlp> asdfhah
2022-04-29T17:48:04 < karlp> yeah, that's the joy of working on cars when you're not in a serious mechanics shop
2022-04-29T17:48:12 < karlp> "unscrew part A and disassemble part C"
2022-04-29T17:48:19 < karlp> "it's rusted shut" -> you're fucked...
2022-04-29T17:48:55 < zyp> I could probably get it out if I tried, but all the threads on that wheel are kinda bad, so it'll just give me more trouble next time anyway
2022-04-29T18:02:04 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-04-29T18:02:44 < BrainDamage> get a screw extractor set if the stuff the screw is stuck in is expensive to replace
2022-04-29T18:03:28 < BrainDamage> or just drill a hole and tap a new screw
2022-04-29T18:05:15 < BrainDamage> the third option is put a bucket of thermite on top and set it ablaze
2022-04-29T18:06:45 < englishman> You use an E Z out
2022-04-29T18:06:53 < englishman> Then you break off the E Z out in the hole
2022-04-29T18:07:02 < englishman> Then you say fuck it and drill a bigger hole
2022-04-29T18:12:57 < karlp> lol
2022-04-29T18:26:16 < fenugrec> put a washer around the stub, weld it, make a big glob you can grab with vise grips, pray
2022-04-29T18:27:06 < fenugrec> bonus , the violent heat often helps break the rust bond
2022-04-29T18:29:44 < karlp> zyp: speaking of breaking though, I managed to break the socket head trying to undo some wheel nuts :|
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2022-04-29T19:41:05 < englishman> bet you used the seize paste instead of the anti seize paste
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2022-04-29T20:30:02 < zyp> bet I didn't use any paste at all
2022-04-29T20:32:11 < ventYl> meh, I just tried to write something in JavaScript
2022-04-29T20:32:17 < ventYl> I am too old for this shit
2022-04-29T20:34:03 < Steffanx> No you're not.
2022-04-29T20:40:07 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-29T20:55:59 < ventYl> maybe I am not: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ug47K.png
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2022-04-29T21:05:01 < zyp> karlp, maybe you find the user facing code more understandable? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/EEozV
2022-04-29T21:08:34 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@user/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2022-04-29T21:12:47 < jpa-> zyp: for testing https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb/blob/master/tests/alltypes_proto3/alltypes.proto may be useful, along with https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/alltypes1.pb and https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/alltypes2.pb
2022-04-29T21:13:07 < zyp> I probably need to implement all types first :)
2022-04-29T21:13:24 < jpa-> could be :)
2022-04-29T21:13:35 < zyp> still missing string and bytes, and I also need to implement repeated and oneof
2022-04-29T21:14:34 < zyp> and enums, haven't done those yet either
2022-04-29T21:18:33 < zyp> but I think this is a good start, I'm at around 450 source lines so far, including supporting code, generator and generator template, and already getting a lot of stuff done
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2022-04-29T22:03:40 < mawk> I finished my ublox sara-r510s breakout board
2022-04-29T22:04:20 < Steffanx> In Eagle?
2022-04-29T22:04:43 < mawk> no
2022-04-29T22:04:45 < mawk> on my desk
2022-04-29T22:04:47 < mawk> https://serveur.io/PXL_20220429_161051451.MP.jpg
2022-04-29T22:05:03 < mawk> oh no what happened to my ssl certificate
2022-04-29T22:05:09 < mawk> did letsencrypt let me down
2022-04-29T22:05:26 < mawk> ah better
2022-04-29T22:05:28 < mawk> I had to reload nginx
2022-04-29T22:06:02 < mawk> I'm not sure my horrible DIY antenna port will be good enough to actually communicate, but I hope
2022-04-29T22:06:12 < mawk> I probably need shorter wires
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2022-04-29T22:08:08 < mawk> the official devkit for this chip is $500
2022-04-29T22:08:24 < mawk> and long lead time
2022-04-29T22:10:35 < mawk> I broke out antenna, uart with hardware control flow, power on, reset, V_INT
2022-04-29T22:10:41 < mawk> and put a switch for power on and for rese
2022-04-29T22:10:42 < mawk> t
2022-04-29T22:11:00 < mawk> it's a momentary switch since the chip needs a pulse on these pins, not a constant level
2022-04-29T22:11:41 < mawk> and I linked all the GND pins together as instructed by BrainDamage
2022-04-29T22:11:47 < mawk> this was the most annoying part
2022-04-29T22:12:09 < mawk> there are around 50 ground pins
2022-04-29T22:16:45 < Steffanx> Y U NO make pcb?
2022-04-29T22:18:02 < mawk> too long
2022-04-29T22:18:11 < mawk> the chips are out of stock
2022-04-29T22:18:20 < mawk> I got miraculously 3 of them to play around
2022-04-29T22:18:37 < mawk> and I need to verify stuff now; in order to make a pcb that will work the first time
2022-04-29T22:18:42 < mawk> in altium of course, no eagle
2022-04-29T22:19:39 < mawk> the chip can do GNSS and LTE-M and NB-IoT
2022-04-29T22:19:45 < mawk> and a variant can also do GPS
2022-04-29T22:33:17 < qyx> solder mmcz directly to the pads
2022-04-29T22:33:22 < qyx> yes they are too long
2022-04-29T22:33:29 < qyx> *mmcx
2022-04-29T22:33:46 < mawk> I wanted to do that
2022-04-29T22:33:48 < mawk> but didn't have any
2022-04-29T22:34:03 < mawk> I'll make them as short as possible
2022-04-29T22:34:07 < mawk> or ask the boss to buy connectors
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2022-04-29T22:34:54 < qyx> wat
2022-04-29T22:35:01 < mawk> I also thought of soldering a coax but the solder doesn't stick very well to the ground mesh
2022-04-29T22:35:03 < qyx> and whats the connector on your bnoard
2022-04-29T22:35:22 < qyx> simply remove the wires
2022-04-29T22:35:26 < mawk> it doesn't fit to solder it to the board
2022-04-29T22:35:32 < mawk> or it's in a really awkward position
2022-04-29T22:36:04 < mawk> I'm talking about a uFL connector
2022-04-29T22:36:12 < mawk> that's what all our antennas are in
2022-04-29T22:36:27 < mawk> instead of the weird connector you see in the image which I found in the bottom of a drawer
2022-04-29T22:36:40 < qyx> I am talking abnout the mmcx you already habe
2022-04-29T22:36:43 < qyx> have
2022-04-29T22:36:48 < mawk> yeah
2022-04-29T22:36:54 < mawk> it doesn't really fit to solder directly to the board
2022-04-29T22:37:14 < mawk> it kinda could but then I would be worried about ripping the pads when connecting/disconnecting the antenna
2022-04-29T22:37:24 < mawk> that's why I added the wires in the first place
2022-04-29T22:37:46 < mawk> maybe I could cut the legs of the connector though to make it fit better
2022-04-29T22:37:53 < qyx> idk, youll see
2022-04-29T22:38:09 < qyx> I wouldn't dare to do thaty on a 2 W output cellular
2022-04-29T22:38:11 < mawk> if I can find a female uFL connector I can solder it directly to the pads
2022-04-29T22:39:14 < mawk> it's nb-iot so it's 200mW I believe?
2022-04-29T22:39:25 < mawk> lte-m is kinda the same
2022-04-29T22:42:03 < zyp> jpa-, what's the expected output from those? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/BQQ6u
2022-04-29T22:42:28 < mawk> are you playing with protobuf?
2022-04-29T22:42:38 < zyp> yeah, made my own implementation
2022-04-29T22:42:56 < mawk> how do you handle endiannness and different alignment?
2022-04-29T22:43:01 < mawk> I guess alignment is not hard
2022-04-29T22:43:26 < mawk> [[gcc::packed]]
2022-04-29T22:43:37 < zyp> um, no
2022-04-29T22:43:38 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/m43SI
2022-04-29T22:44:22 < mawk> do you generate a compile-time parser for it?
2022-04-29T22:44:39 < mawk> that accesses the fields in the data based on an offset known at compilation
2022-04-29T22:44:49 < mawk> or is it all dynamic
2022-04-29T22:44:51 < zyp> the offset is not known at compilation
2022-04-29T22:44:58 < zyp> that's not how protobuf works :)
2022-04-29T22:45:10 < mawk> really
2022-04-29T22:45:26 < mawk> when I used it it was generating some headers based on the structure
2022-04-29T22:45:41 < zyp> yeah, I do that
2022-04-29T22:46:21 < zyp> if you scroll up to 14:39 I posted the generator
2022-04-29T22:47:16 < mawk> well then the offsets are known at compilation, no? I mean compilation of the code output of that generator
2022-04-29T22:47:31 < zyp> they are IDs, not offsets
2022-04-29T22:47:46 < mawk> I see you're making struct { } with the fields inside
2022-04-29T22:48:01 < mawk> yeah they're IDs for you I guess yes indeed
2022-04-29T22:48:12 < mawk> for the compiler it's internally offset inside the structure
2022-04-29T22:48:26 < mawk> and what I mean is that on different environment the alignment within that structure might be different
2022-04-29T22:48:42 < zyp> the in-memory representation of the structs have nothing to do with the wire representation
2022-04-29T22:48:48 < mawk> ah
2022-04-29T22:48:56 < mawk> I see
2022-04-29T22:49:40 < mawk> I guess I mixed things up; I was thinking of this: https://capnproto.org/
2022-04-29T22:49:42 < zyp> the wire protocol is effectively a sequence of «(id tag) (data)»
2022-04-29T22:49:52 < mawk> where the wire representation is the same as the in-memory representation
2022-04-29T22:50:05 < zyp> yeah
2022-04-29T22:50:26 < mawk> not (id tag) (length) (data) ?
2022-04-29T22:50:35 < mawk> to account for unknown fields
2022-04-29T22:50:40 < zyp> depends
2022-04-29T22:50:46 < mawk> for backwards compatibility stuff
2022-04-29T22:51:02 < mawk> anyway it's nice stuff
2022-04-29T22:51:09 < zyp> tag contains type as well
2022-04-29T22:51:17 < mawk> ah I see
2022-04-29T22:51:20 < jpa-> zyp: you can compare against protoc --decode
2022-04-29T22:51:33 < mawk> the template looks like jinja2, I guess it's that
2022-04-29T22:51:39 < zyp> it is
2022-04-29T22:51:45 < mawk> best templating thing
2022-04-29T22:53:05 < zyp> jpa-, ah, thanks
2022-04-29T22:55:16 < zyp> looks reasonable as far as I've implemented stuff :)
--- Day changed la huhti 30 2022
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2022-04-30T13:33:46 < Steffanx> Some math for mawk: log(😅) = 💧log(😄)
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2022-04-30T16:20:35 < srk> ps /29
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2022-04-30T17:04:28 < kakium69> ventYl: apparently corolla with RWD and 4A-GE engine in the combination
2022-04-30T17:04:41 < kakium69> it's 1.6litre
2022-04-30T17:05:27 < kakium69> weight something around +1000kg
2022-04-30T17:08:41 < kakium69> one summer night I saw what I assume was old corolla (box shape) drawing 100meters or rubber with both wheels.. I don't know if 4A-GE could do that
2022-04-30T17:15:07 < kakium69> somebody said the thing had 500hp
2022-04-30T17:16:43 < ventYl> kakium69: plausible, those engines (IIRC, mazda, honda and toyota shared engines at that time) were capable of accepting fairly large turbo
2022-04-30T17:17:01 < ventYl> but 500 on RWD is useless figure
2022-04-30T17:17:27 < kakium69> what if you want to spin the rears all the time?
2022-04-30T17:17:55 < ventYl> you probably can do that with half the HP
2022-04-30T17:18:36 < kakium69> maybe 2/3 of that
2022-04-30T17:18:37 < ventYl> RX7 has ~400hp and spins wheels up to 3rd gear regardless of if you want or not
2022-04-30T17:18:52 < ventYl> maybe even on 4th
2022-04-30T17:18:53 < kakium69> 3rd goes how fast??
2022-04-30T17:19:03 < ventYl> ~120km/h?
2022-04-30T17:20:16 < ventYl> (this one is definitely a stock street-legal car)
2022-04-30T17:20:22 < ventYl> ++not
2022-04-30T17:23:19 < ventYl> and then you find out that there simply are no tyres you can fit your car and the only option is to go with Formula rims and Formula tyres
2022-04-30T17:23:33 < ventYl> everything else will slip
2022-04-30T17:28:44 < kakium69> put hard rubbers on
2022-04-30T17:28:56 < kakium69> drift all the way there
2022-04-30T17:30:53 < ventYl> you can do that using regular racing semi-slicks
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2022-04-30T19:26:57 < benishor> https://nandgame.com/
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2022-04-30T21:43:38 < catphish> morning
2022-04-30T21:43:49 < kakium69> morgon
2022-04-30T21:45:26 < catphish> so today i assembled my battery box again, hopefully just about there now, just need to add the batteries!
2022-04-30T21:45:53 < catphish> positive: https://i.imgur.com/JE8pyPq.jpg
2022-04-30T21:46:02 < catphish> negative: https://i.imgur.com/dAwmaHu.jpg
2022-04-30T21:46:39 < catphish> bar for clamping down batteries: https://i.imgur.com/AHtjXMe.jpg
2022-04-30T21:46:59 < benishor> that looks scary
2022-04-30T21:46:59 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1520446597007659010
2022-04-30T21:55:39 < kakium69> catphish: tidy
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2022-04-30T21:58:44 < kakium69> Mangy_Dog: that's a lot of boards
2022-04-30T21:59:23 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2022-04-30T22:00:50 < catphish> Mangy_Dog: neat :)
2022-04-30T22:02:00 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2022-04-30T23:59:15 < Steffanx> But what is it, Mangy_Dog ?
2022-04-30T23:59:31 < Mangy_Dog> tricorder 2.5
--- Log closed su touko 01 00:00:10 2022