--- Log opened ke kesä 01 00:00:56 2022
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2022-06-01T02:10:23 < jadew> linux problems: https://askubuntu.com/questions/13645/typing-location-path-instead-of-clicking-directory-buttons-in-the-file-picker-di
2022-06-01T02:10:38 < jadew> 10 years later, you still can't type the fucking folder location in the save file dialogue
2022-06-01T02:11:34 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2022-06-01T02:13:48 < jadew> in nautilus, in the main pane, you have items that open on a single click, and items that open on double click
2022-06-01T02:14:06 < jadew> you can't make this shit up...
2022-06-01T02:14:15 < jadew> it wreaks of stupid
2022-06-01T02:17:18 < jadew> am I expecting too much? is everyone else not bothered by this shit?
2022-06-01T02:17:31 < rajkosto> nobody uses linux as a desktop...
2022-06-01T02:17:45 < rajkosto> the ones that do just use tmux to spawn a couple of shells across their screens
2022-06-01T02:17:58 < jadew> I can believe that
2022-06-01T02:20:39 < jadew> I had to write an extension for gnome today, for something that already had several extensions, but because the API changes with every fucking release, the older ones stopped working
2022-06-01T02:21:11 < jadew> I looked at the code and they had lots of "if else" to target the various changes (it only had to call one function)
2022-06-01T02:21:21 < jadew> but eventually the maintainers gave up and stopped updating it
2022-06-01T02:21:32 < rajkosto> linux desktop cant agree on how to do copy paste consistently across programs
2022-06-01T02:23:01 < jadew> then they have the nerve to bash microsoft for sticking with win32 for 30 years
2022-06-01T02:23:50 < jadew> bitch... I would rather have to write programs in straight win32 and know they're working, than develop on the moving stands that linux is
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2022-06-01T02:24:07 < jadew> this is why linux is shit
2022-06-01T02:25:10 < rajkosto> yes a million monkeys on a million typewriters does not a shakespeare write
2022-06-01T02:26:03 < catphish> lol
2022-06-01T02:27:18 < specing> jadew: >gnome
2022-06-01T02:27:22 < specing> found your problem
2022-06-01T02:27:28 < rajkosto> also: patches are welcome ;)
2022-06-01T02:27:43 < jadew> specing, what do you recommend?
2022-06-01T02:27:50 < jadew> I tried KDE Plasma - buggy mess
2022-06-01T02:27:53 < specing> jadew: AwesomeWM
2022-06-01T02:28:44 < jadew> "awesome is a highly configurable, next generation framework window manager for X. It is very fast, extensible and licensed under the GNU GPLv2 license."
2022-06-01T02:29:09 < jadew> another thing about linux developers - they think I, as a user, give a flying fuck about their license
2022-06-01T02:29:55 < specing> AwesomeWM is not really targetted towards normal users
2022-06-01T02:30:52 < jadew> I'll jump on youtube to see what it's like
2022-06-01T02:30:54 < jadew> maybe a comparison
2022-06-01T02:31:17 < jadew> TBH, I found gnome to be the sanest so far, even tho it's super bad
2022-06-01T02:31:22 < rajkosto> looks like a glorified tmux ;)
2022-06-01T02:36:09 < specing> jadew: I used to use Xfce4 after bailing from GNOME
2022-06-01T02:36:43 < jadew> I used xfce too, it seemed rudimentary at the time, but that was years ago
2022-06-01T02:36:43 < specing> this was 15 years ago though, it is when KDE/GNOME became massive bloatware
2022-06-01T02:37:13 < jadew> that's the thing with software
2022-06-01T02:37:30 < jadew> at first, it's slim and nice, but super buggy
2022-06-01T02:37:36 < jadew> then they fix the bugs and it's bloated :)
2022-06-01T02:40:46 < specing> AwesomeWM is neither buggy nor bloated, it just doesen't aim to be a full desktop
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2022-06-01T03:10:51 < bitmask> annnnnnd the last person has left, house to myself for 16 days
2022-06-01T03:11:17 < jadew> time to get naked
2022-06-01T03:11:25 < bitmask> yes it is
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2022-06-01T08:45:01 < R2COM> where is dongs? is he fucking dead or something?
2022-06-01T08:47:03 < jpa-> libera was too liberal for dongs
2022-06-01T08:47:44 < R2COM> where is he now
2022-06-01T08:50:29 < R2COM> is he banned from libera
2022-06-01T08:53:38 < rajkosto> oh no, my dongs, gone forever
2022-06-01T08:54:12 < R2COM> oh nigger hello, you still here
2022-06-01T08:54:20 < rajkosto> i will never go away 
2022-06-01T08:54:42 < rajkosto> even though i havent written stm32 code for years
2022-06-01T08:55:03 < R2COM> im not surprized if you havent written any useful code at all
2022-06-01T08:59:22 < R2COM> what should one do in order to get banned from irc server
2022-06-01T09:00:32 < R2COM> hah.. anyway
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2022-06-01T09:36:33 < Xogium> funny, I was sure you were the one that had been banned
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2022-06-01T10:04:19 < upgrdman> for zener-type voltage references, anyone know how Ik relates to noise? assuming more cathode current == more noise ?
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2022-06-01T10:27:58 < Steffanx> I think he left by himself in the end Xogium 
2022-06-01T10:28:05 < Steffanx> jpa- bullied him.
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2022-06-01T13:54:23 < jadew> upgrdman, there's usually a threshold after which the noise doesn't go up
2022-06-01T13:54:35 < jadew> you don't normally need much current to get there
2022-06-01T13:55:50 < jadew> use it at the datasheet suggested current, for best stability/accuracy
2022-06-01T13:56:09 < jadew> and if you care about the noise that much, add some filtering caps on the output
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2022-06-01T19:38:44 < catphish> yay, with much joy i've managed to get my RP2040 to low power sleep without breaking USB, now it'll stay awake as long as USB is connected, but also properly shut down the USB when it sleeps and reinitialize it when it wakes
2022-06-01T19:41:00 < mawk> nice catphish 
2022-06-01T19:41:18 < mawk> what was needed to not break USB when sleeping catphish ?
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2022-06-01T19:46:08 < catphish> mawk: well the libraries are pretty poorly documented, but essentially i just 1) disabled the DP/DM pull resistors before sleeping 2) enabled the pull resistors after waking 3) re-initialized the USB library after re-enabling the clocks when waking 4) (not really related to deep sleep) but adjusted my clock config to keep the USB clocks running during sleep(), they normally would but i had some aggressive settings on this previously to stop all clocks 
2022-06-01T19:46:08 < catphish> except the one that actually does the sleep timing
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2022-06-01T19:47:43 < catphish> none of this seems complicated, the SDK is totally undocumented in this regard, so i have a bit of a hacky mix of calls to 1) the high level Pi Pico USB library 2) the underlying tinyusb library it uses behind the scenes and 3) some low level registers to detect if USB is physically connected to keep it fully awake while USB is connected
2022-06-01T19:48:28 < LoneElf> Anybody know if it's possible to use SPI without interrupts, and without blocking using the ST HAL?
2022-06-01T19:48:39 < catphish> the device is usually intended to consume as little power as possible, but i wanted to be able to plug in a USB cable, and have it automatically enter a higher power "diagnostic" mode where it runs continuously and outputs data over USB
2022-06-01T19:49:21 < jpa-> LoneElf: why do you insist on the HAL, the SPI peripheral registers are simple enough
2022-06-01T19:49:24  * catphish has never used the HAL, so don't be much help :)
2022-06-01T19:49:44 < catphish> once you get started with HAL i guess it makes sense to use it for everything
2022-06-01T19:49:57 < catphish> i am very much a low level register kinda guy though :)
2022-06-01T19:50:03 < jpa-> why, if it makes a particular task more difficult
2022-06-01T19:50:09 < LoneElf> jpa-, I'm not terribly familiar with interacting with the registers -- there's a bit of a learning curve there I'm looking to avoid for now.
2022-06-01T19:51:39 < LoneElf> I tried just writing code to mess with the registers in the same way that the HAL does in the interrupt handler, but I'm having issues, seems like a bit of a rathole. I also tried calling the interrupt handler from outside of an interrupt, and that did not seem to work.
2022-06-01T20:05:16 < jpa-> it sounds like you will want to start a DMA transfer and then later come back and check if it is finished
2022-06-01T20:05:33 < jpa-> why no interrupts btw? maybe you could just disable them if you have something time-critical to do
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2022-06-01T21:07:54 < LoneElf> jpa-, Yup, that's exactly what I wanted to do. I'm doing something time-critical, and I don't want to waste time on switching in and out of interrupt contexts.
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2022-06-01T21:16:22 < jpa-> LoneElf: then i would just disable the interrupts during your time-critical stuff with __disable_irq() and enable them back when it is done
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2022-06-01T23:39:24 < kaki> hello early crew
2022-06-01T23:53:36 < kaki> catphish: box now
2022-06-01T23:53:59 < kaki> did you assemvle it
2022-06-01T23:56:01 < Steffanx> Wasn't it already assembled yesterday?
--- Day changed to kesä 02 2022
2022-06-02T00:10:26 < catphish> kaki: no, i hit a small hurdle
2022-06-02T00:11:03 < catphish> kaki: the pipes that parallel the coolant loop, i need to plug one end
2022-06-02T00:11:28 < kaki> true
2022-06-02T00:11:31 < catphish> kaki: but i don't have any suitable material to create such a plug, and it's public holiday in UK until monday
2022-06-02T00:12:03 < catphish> i have ordered some aluminium bar to machine into bungs, but won't be here this week
2022-06-02T00:12:44 < catphish> i am also waitng for the final brackets to be powder coated
2022-06-02T00:13:04 < kaki> can't wait
2022-06-02T00:13:19 < catphish> once that's done, i'm *hoping* its just assembly and driveshafts to do
2022-06-02T00:13:37 < BrainDamage> do you plan to have AC or just lift the roof?
2022-06-02T00:14:02 < catphish> Steffanx: it's 90% assembled, but can't put the last batteries in until i plug up their coolant pipes
2022-06-02T00:14:18 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/oSvI24E.jpg
2022-06-02T00:22:11 < catphish> BrainDamage: definitely no AC, i seriously doubt it would even fit
2022-06-02T00:25:28 < kaki> it's a sports car
2022-06-02T00:25:37 < kaki> open a window
2022-06-02T00:26:03 < kaki> open some vents
2022-06-02T00:26:28 < catphish> whole roof is remove :)
2022-06-02T00:26:39 < Steffanx> Isnt it always rainy in the UK?
2022-06-02T00:26:45 < Steffanx> At least 99.9% of the time
2022-06-02T00:26:46 < catphish> Steffanx: yes
2022-06-02T00:27:11 < catphish> Steffanx: although thanks to global warming, we have proper dry season now
2022-06-02T00:27:23 < Steffanx> Yay.
2022-06-02T00:29:07 < kaki> if you drive fast enough you dont get wet
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2022-06-02T00:32:46 < BrainDamage> if it's raining, usually the temp is not horrible
2022-06-02T00:45:34 < zyp> kaki, rate my weld: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826884015054127104/981646942079701092/IMG_20220601_215408.jpg
2022-06-02T00:55:50 < qyx> CO2?
2022-06-02T01:15:32 < zyp> no, TIG with argon
2022-06-02T01:16:28 < zyp> today is my first time ever attempting TIG, so I don't think it came out too bad for a beginner
2022-06-02T01:18:06 < qyx> hm, I would expect a bit wider weld for a TIG
2022-06-02T01:18:47 < qyx> I still don't know what should I buy
2022-06-02T01:19:15 < qyx> if stick/MMA only or CO2+wire or TIG
2022-06-02T01:19:18 < qyx> TIG is €€
2022-06-02T01:20:07 < zyp> how much do you figure? I bought the cheapest kinda usable looking TIG welder I found
2022-06-02T01:20:16 < qyx> I how much was it?
2022-06-02T01:20:23 < zyp> like 170€
2022-06-02T01:20:28 < qyx> I found some for .. what?
2022-06-02T01:20:32 < qyx> I found for 700€
2022-06-02T01:20:59 < zyp> link?
2022-06-02T01:22:31 < qyx> https://www.solik.sk/kategorie/zvaracky/tig/?q=&sort=price&pricechange=0&pricemin=456&pricemax=7145&display=grid&limit=16&offsetToReach=0&more=0&total=51&offsetNoUsing=48&
2022-06-02T01:23:25 < zyp> I got this one: https://eur.vevor.com/tig-welder-c_10066/vevor-200amp-tig-arc-mma-welder-welding-machine-dc-igbt-inverter-230v-welder-p_010889920061
2022-06-02T01:23:28 < qyx> but now I also found https://www.tocopotrebujes.sk/Powermat-PM-IMG-220L-PRO-MIG-MAG-TIG-MMA-220A-d12065.htm
2022-06-02T01:24:01 < zyp> fuck that
2022-06-02T01:24:12 < qyx> which one, powermat?
2022-06-02T01:24:35 < zyp> yeah, at a glance it doesn't look like it got a gas solenoid for TIG
2022-06-02T01:25:52 < qyx> it does
2022-06-02T01:25:57 < qyx> it even has a wire feeder
2022-06-02T01:25:59 < zyp> I concluded that my requirements was having a gas solenoid and HF start, because without that it's just a retrofitted MMA welder
2022-06-02T01:26:06 < zyp> yeah, for MIG
2022-06-02T01:27:43 < zyp> anyway, the one I picked up seems decent enough for the price
2022-06-02T01:27:57 < zyp> still very barebones as far as TIG goes, but enough to get me started
2022-06-02T01:28:27 < qyx> hm probably no HF start on the powermat one
2022-06-02T01:29:21 < zyp> I figure if I actually end up welding a bunch, I'm gonna eventually want to weld aluminum, so at some point I'm probably gonna buy something more fancy that does AC
2022-06-02T01:30:46 < qyx> and how much was the argon tank + regulator + hoses?
2022-06-02T01:31:27 < zyp> hose was included, already had regulator from when I played around with MIG 10+ years ago
2022-06-02T01:32:01 < zyp> paid 240€ or something for a tank, but those are expensive in norway
2022-06-02T01:33:01 < qyx> what size?
2022-06-02T01:33:09 < qyx> 8 L seems to be ~100 € here
2022-06-02T01:33:15 < qyx> sounds quite small
2022-06-02T01:33:16 < zyp> 13.4L
2022-06-02T01:33:45 < zyp> apparently only 150bar though, everybody else seems to sell 200bar (or 300)
2022-06-02T01:35:58 < catphish> zyp: that weld is a little better than mine, not beautiful but seems to have penetrated well
2022-06-02T01:35:58 < qyx> the argon itself is only 35 €, 8 L at 200 bar
2022-06-02T01:36:50 < qyx> I also considered propylene+O2 for a more historical experience
2022-06-02T01:36:55 < catphish> i mostly need to be more enthusiastic with the current on my welds, they all end up on the surface
2022-06-02T01:37:03 < zyp> catphish, it was only my second attempt
2022-06-02T01:37:07 < zyp> my first looked like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826884015054127104/981641838576410665/IMG_20220601_213308.jpg
2022-06-02T01:37:42 < zyp> first one, ground down: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826884015054127104/981646309910003792/IMG_20220601_215138.jpg
2022-06-02T01:38:02 < catphish> zyp: that first one looks like my first couple, not deep enough
2022-06-02T01:38:09 < catphish> i haven't progressed far yet
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2022-06-02T01:39:41 < catphish> i do feel like i get a little better each time though :)
2022-06-02T01:40:14 < catphish> i'm just doing mig though, so pretty trivial
2022-06-02T01:40:35 < zyp> TIG is more fun :)
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2022-06-02T01:44:06 < catphish> it looks considerably harder
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2022-06-02T14:35:02 < jpa-> heh, i was almost starting to trust freecad, then it crashed again :)
2022-06-02T14:38:56 < BrainDamage> that gives me a stupid idea
2022-06-02T14:39:13 < BrainDamage> a daemon that monitors programs and see how long they run for vs crashes
2022-06-02T14:39:26 < BrainDamage> and prints out statistics
2022-06-02T14:41:06 < srk> you can just check coredumpctl on modern distro
2022-06-02T14:41:13 < Steffanx> And automatically posts an dongs-like-rage post on the mailinglist/github issues etc.?
2022-06-02T14:41:42 < BrainDamage> coredumpctl only gives you when it crashed, not how long it was running
2022-06-02T14:41:49 < srk> true
2022-06-02T14:41:50 < BrainDamage> you'd need to monitor for runtime separately
2022-06-02T14:44:02 < Xogium> I think there is a file somewhere in proc that displays how long a process has been running
2022-06-02T14:44:06 < srk> proc/<pid>/stat has starttime
2022-06-02T14:44:09 < srk> ^^
2022-06-02T14:46:03 < srk> that might still be available when coredump hook fires
2022-06-02T14:46:17 < Xogium> hmmm
2022-06-02T14:46:29 < Xogium> that's a good point
2022-06-02T14:47:59 < srk> BrainDamage: looks like you just need systemd small patch :)
2022-06-02T14:48:15 < srk> in right order
2022-06-02T14:48:48 < BrainDamage> a nice histogram plot for a wall of shame
2022-06-02T14:51:24 < jpa-> i would want a daemon that keeps cow snapshots of the process so it can just restore it after a crash ;)
2022-06-02T14:52:16 < srk> haha, process rollback
2022-06-02T14:52:21 < BrainDamage> only to crash again immediately after if the cause is not direct user input
2022-06-02T14:52:38 < BrainDamage> also, there's such thing in reality
2022-06-02T14:52:39 < BrainDamage> rr
2022-06-02T14:52:46 < srk> or criu
2022-06-02T14:54:05 < srk> rr.. Debugging extends gdb with very efficient reverse-execution
2022-06-02T14:54:27 < srk> something like that for embedded would be cool
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2022-06-02T16:21:08 < oz4ga> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FULH2nQUAAMhrT9?format=jpg&name=900x900
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2022-06-02T19:01:21 < karlp> neat: https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/digital-sound-printing-in-3d-with-ultrasound/
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2022-06-02T21:20:44 < zyp> srk, I believe it's being worked on
2022-06-02T21:22:11 < zyp> with an ETM trace, you know what instructions executed and step backwards through them
2022-06-02T21:23:49 < jpa-> looking backwards in a trace is simple and no need to fake stepping, but AFAIK the coresight implementation in STM32 doesn't support data trace which would allow actually seeing the values
2022-06-02T21:26:10 < zyp> probably correct, there's a couple other places as well that STM32 has a reduced featureset
2022-06-02T21:27:41 < jpa-> though for stuff where speed doesn't matter, one could always just do stepi & grab registers through SWD
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2022-06-02T21:38:30 < kaki> morgon
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2022-06-02T23:29:33 < srk> zyp: cool
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2022-06-02T23:50:06 < kaki> catphish: box now
2022-06-02T23:51:46 < catphish> kaki: nothing happen this week, public holiday uk until monday
2022-06-02T23:51:58 < kaki> ah
2022-06-02T23:52:04 < kaki> can't you hijack the shop
2022-06-02T23:52:39 < kaki> public holiday till monday?
2022-06-02T23:52:40 < catphish> the problem is i can't machine bungs for the battery coolant outlets until i have aluminium bar
2022-06-02T23:52:52 < kaki> what holiday is now and so long?
2022-06-02T23:53:01 < kaki> is it something brittish?
2022-06-02T23:53:09 < catphish> https://platinumjubilee.gov.uk/
2022-06-02T23:53:18 < catphish> "In 2022, Her Majesty The Queen will become the first British Monarch to celebrate a Platinum Jubilee after 70 years of service."
2022-06-02T23:53:19 < kaki> ofc
2022-06-02T23:53:36 < catphish> we have thurs and fri holiday
2022-06-02T23:53:46 < kaki> nice
2022-06-02T23:53:58 < catphish> so something i order on tuesday afternoon won't arrive untl at least next monday
2022-06-02T23:54:21 < catphish> also powder coating guy isn't doing any powder coating :)
2022-06-02T23:54:48 < kaki> you need to start carving pieces out of aluminum by hand
2022-06-02T23:54:58 < kaki> it's possible
2022-06-02T23:55:08 < catphish> so next weel i will get my aluminium, machine the bungs, finish assembling the battery box, and also get the powder coated brackets, then i can assemble battery box, motor, charger and vacuum pump into car
2022-06-02T23:55:11 < kaki> even from steel
2022-06-02T23:55:17 < kaki> you need just really sharp knifes
2022-06-02T23:55:23 < catphish> the problem isn't that i don't have a lathe
2022-06-02T23:55:29 < catphish> the problem is that i don't have any aluminium
2022-06-02T23:55:54 < kaki> just take some old engine head and spin it in lathe
2022-06-02T23:56:20 < kaki> you can cut it smaller first
2022-06-02T23:56:23 < catphish> well i do, i have 2-inch diameter bar, but machining that down to 16mm is just wasteful as fuck
2022-06-02T23:58:02 < catphish> so yeah, i await parts, next week things will hopefully happen
2022-06-02T23:58:33 < catphish> at that point it's *mostly* assembly and wiring, but also i have to do the driveshafts
--- Day changed pe kesä 03 2022
2022-06-03T00:11:55 < catphish> also, i suspect reassambling the rear suspension will be hassle :)
2022-06-03T00:18:23 < e-snail> hi
2022-06-03T00:18:32 < e-snail> catphish: are you building a car or go-kart of some kind?
2022-06-03T00:18:43 < karlp> hrm, does anyone other than aisler do "rational" sized stencils?
2022-06-03T00:18:59 < karlp> jlc stencils basically double dhl costs because they're so fucking big, 
2022-06-03T00:19:12 < karlp> and the ones I got frrom nextpcb were jumbotron as well.
2022-06-03T00:25:52 < catphish> e-snail: i'm converting this car from petrol to EV: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/vx220-with-tesla-sdu.205616/
2022-06-03T00:26:37 < catphish> e-snail: https://i.imgur.com/p0JfjAc.jpg :)
2022-06-03T00:26:53 < e-snail> that's awesome
2022-06-03T00:27:37 < catphish> indeed, as a newbie to engineering it's taking me a long time, but learning a lot in the process :)
2022-06-03T00:28:04 < e-snail> all the more impressive
2022-06-03T00:33:44 < BrainDamage> sadly they discard all the suggestions to include a self-destruct mechanism
2022-06-03T00:42:21 < catphish> BrainDamage: i built one, it destroyed itself
2022-06-03T00:49:03 < e-snail> mission accomplished
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2022-06-03T17:44:12 < Smashcat> Hi, is there a known bug in STM32Cube IDE that duplicates the code when a new peripheral is set up? I'm just starting to use this, as I've mostly used Microchip/ATMel chips previously.
2022-06-03T17:45:16 < Smashcat> Every time I change a pin or peripheral setup in the IDE, it then adds a new main(){} and everything below it. I haven't removed any comments, and kept my own code in the user areas.
2022-06-03T17:53:55 < Smashcat> Ah I see. I have to delete all the autogenerated code, then make changes in the device config tool, then let it create the new code again, or it just appends it every time.
2022-06-03T17:56:25 < karlp> if you make changes outside the "YOUR CODE HERE" blocks, you're going to have a very bad time, yes..
2022-06-03T18:00:18 < Smashcat> Yeah I didn't make changes outside of those blocks. It just keeps appending though unless I delete all the autogen code. No big deal as I'm just testing things at the moment.
2022-06-03T18:00:42 < Steffanx> I never had to delete the autogenerated code. It always overwrites it
2022-06-03T18:00:57 < Steffanx> And purges the changes made outside the user blocks
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2022-06-03T18:08:24 < Smashcat> Yep that's what I assumed it would do.
2022-06-03T18:13:37 < Smashcat> Hmm, is there a VS plugin for STM32? There seems to be a lot of things missing in the Cube IDE that make it a bit annoying :) No way to jump to the implementation from a declaration? That's pretty basic stuff usually.
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2022-06-03T18:43:57 < Steffanx> There is.
2022-06-03T18:51:59 < Smashcat> I have found a couple. Going to try the VS-Code-STM32-IDE plugin. Looks like I still need to keep CubeIDE just to generate projects, then I can close it down and use VS.
2022-06-03T18:52:32 < karlp> heh, I had navigation working with cube ide, but never had it working out of the box with vs-code.
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2022-06-03T18:54:55 < Smashcat> Guess I'm just more used to VS - I use it for MCU work and Windows C++ dev. Not having things like auto-complete, any kind of function signature display etc in Cube, is basically like using a text editor :)
2022-06-03T18:55:10 < karlp> you have a seriously busted cube ide then...
2022-06-03T18:55:30 < Smashcat> Just installed it. Haven't really changed anything.
2022-06-03T18:56:31 < karlp> I mean, I'm no st apologist, and I don't use cube for daily use, but something's totally fucked in your installation :)
2022-06-03T18:56:49 < Smashcat> Heh. Yeah it's pretty fucked. I was using grep to search for things, as the search only seems to work on the current file too.
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2022-06-03T19:12:32 < karlp> lol. so silabs ssv5 makefiles have a weird blob of shit at the end of them, like https://github.com/Ganeshkm10/IOT_FINAL_Project/blob/5639c6afb48760b75727a7b9b0a37b90a6667337/ecen5823-IoT-Course-Project-2/ecen5823-IoT-Course-Project.project.mak#L62
2022-06-03T19:12:39 < karlp> (just one from github) 
2022-06-03T19:12:51 < karlp> and I've ran into problems trying to relocate a project into a new git repo,
2022-06-03T19:12:55 < karlp> so I wanted to decode it.
2022-06-03T19:13:05 < karlp> looks like base64, so do that, but gives garbage...
2022-06-03T19:13:14 < karlp> ok, turns out it's base64 of a raw zlib...
2022-06-03T19:13:36 < karlp> raw zlib decompress gives me a json file, xml documents as values in the json blob dict :)
2022-06-03T19:13:47 < karlp> complete with allllll the escaping necessary for that to work..
2022-06-03T19:14:07 < karlp> and now I can see my bad paths....
2022-06-03T19:15:09 < karlp> 236KB of fluff stuck at the end of my makefile...
2022-06-03T19:15:42 < karlp> "SIMPLICITY_STUDIO_PROPERTIES":"{\"ebx-nwo-bare\":\"{\\\"savedStockVariables\\\":\\\"{\\\\\\\"partOpn\\\\\\\":\\\\\\\"bgm220sc12wga\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\"copiedSdkLocation\\\\\\\":\\\\\\\"gecko_sdk_4.0.2\\\\\\\"}\\\"}\",\"Default\":\"{\\\"savedStockVariables\\\":\\\"{\\\\\\\"partOpn\\\\\\\":\\\\\\\"bgm220sc12wga\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\"copiedSdkLocation\\\\\\\":\\\\\\\"gecko_sdk_4.0.2\\\\\\\"}\\\"}\"}" sort of
2022-06-03T19:15:43 < karlp> bullshit
2022-06-03T19:27:49 < karlp> well, I exercised my base64 zlib regexp wranglign skills, but silabs is still fucked in the head.
2022-06-03T19:31:52 < jpa-> yeah, they should have embedded a perl script there instead
2022-06-03T19:42:55 < karlp> I have absolutly no idea how to have a silabs project both a) still let me use the graphical editors and b) use their own makefiles for generation and c) have it in a different directory.
2022-06-03T19:43:14 < karlp> I think I need to make new project using their wizard, copy my files over it, and pretend it's the same thing again.
2022-06-03T19:43:22 < karlp> this is so wildly unfriendly
2022-06-03T19:45:58 < karlp> AN1160: Project Collaboration with
2022-06-03T19:46:00 < karlp> Simplicity Studio
2022-06-03T19:46:03 < karlp>  only applies to the old ssv4.
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2022-06-03T20:32:44 < mawk> that's a lot of \ karlp 
2022-06-03T21:03:46 < catphish> too much \ if you ask me
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2022-06-03T22:49:13 < Steffanx> the perfect amount
2022-06-03T22:50:22 < BrainDamage> can't you see the simplicity?
2022-06-03T22:51:13 < Steffanx> Nah the left it in the studio.
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2022-06-03T23:17:07 < karlp> I gave up, I'm going to keep working on this project in it's own little side weird repo, and just go "lalalaal" until I need to really share it with someone.
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2022-06-03T23:36:16 < kaki> early hello
2022-06-03T23:45:11 < upgrdman> with a number like "1.2" ... 1 is called the "integer part" and 2 is called the "fraction part" ??
2022-06-03T23:46:08 < BrainDamage> decimal
2022-06-03T23:46:56 < BrainDamage> fractional is only if the whole number is result of a rational fraction, but reals don't have to be
2022-06-03T23:47:37 < catphish> integer and decimal part i'd say
2022-06-03T23:47:53 < upgrdman> thanks
2022-06-03T23:50:53 < upgrdman> and "12e34" ... 34 is the "mantissa" right?
2022-06-03T23:51:02 < upgrdman> err no
2022-06-03T23:51:06 < BrainDamage> no, the exponent
2022-06-03T23:51:09 < upgrdman> i mean "12" is the mantinna, 34 is the exponent
2022-06-03T23:51:09 < BrainDamage> 12 is the mantissa
2022-06-03T23:51:12 < upgrdman> ya
2022-06-03T23:51:14 < upgrdman> thx
--- Day changed la kesä 04 2022
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2022-06-04T00:09:29 < kaki> you guise are having math fun without mawk
2022-06-04T00:12:08 < karlp> mawk probably wouldn't think this counted anyway ;)(
2022-06-04T00:12:48 < upgrdman> ya, this is just primitive shit to make sure my code comments don't sound retarded
2022-06-04T01:05:50 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJYid2F8iDk they still make techno
2022-06-04T01:06:14 < kaki> that's fresh sound
2022-06-04T01:14:23 < Steffanx> Never heard of them. And I'm not impressed:P
2022-06-04T01:38:26 < jadew> if I click on that link will it pollute my feed with non-booty-shaking videos?
2022-06-04T01:41:52 < kaki> yes
2022-06-04T01:42:03 < kaki> just ug techno parties
2022-06-04T01:43:31 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xouEd5cVE8 Linus tech tips: Prison cellural phone
2022-06-04T01:43:44 < kaki> goes into butt easily so small
2022-06-04T01:43:49 < jadew> I don't like that guy
2022-06-04T01:44:03 < kaki> I know so I titled the link
2022-06-04T01:44:10 < jadew> does he do that in the video?
2022-06-04T01:44:16 < jadew> cuz I could watch that
2022-06-04T01:44:49 < kaki> device is Zenco Tiny T1
2022-06-04T01:45:13 < kaki> basically size of big usb dongle
2022-06-04T01:45:21 < jadew> how do they charge it?
2022-06-04T01:45:44 < kaki> put a power bank in butt with it
2022-06-04T01:46:07 < jadew> wouldn't put lithium batteries of questionable origin up my butt
2022-06-04T01:47:30 < jadew> I wonder what you hear if you get "pocket dialed" from one of those
2022-06-04T01:47:43 < jadew> slush, slush, slush...
2022-06-04T01:48:53 < kaki> I think the charging problem is solved by muleing a shit ton of those in
2022-06-04T01:49:08 < kaki> then use them as single use
2022-06-04T01:49:31 < kaki> make a call, turn it off.. repeat
2022-06-04T01:49:32 < jadew> they seem to cost about $50 a pop
2022-06-04T01:49:33 < BrainDamage> there's hand crank chargers or solar cells
2022-06-04T01:49:44 < jadew> where do you keep that?
2022-06-04T01:49:51 < BrainDamage> the charger?
2022-06-04T01:49:55 < jadew> yeah
2022-06-04T01:49:56 < kaki> in the prison pocket
2022-06-04T01:50:04 < jadew> so... also up the ass?
2022-06-04T01:50:05 < BrainDamage> I have a pocket one, it's half of the size of that phone
2022-06-04T01:50:11 < BrainDamage> so should fit along it
2022-06-04T01:50:12 < kaki> you can leave the crank out
2022-06-04T01:50:15 < BrainDamage> just need training
2022-06-04T01:50:22 < jadew> lol kaki 
2022-06-04T01:50:32 < kaki> practical
2022-06-04T01:50:55 < jadew> if someone asks what you're doing, you're "just scratching your ass"
2022-06-04T01:51:11 < kaki> just jacking off
2022-06-04T01:52:03 < BrainDamage> https://aixonne.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/HLB1h8iQbiLxK1Rjy0Ffq6zYdVXaK.jpg
2022-06-04T01:52:29 < BrainDamage> spoiler: they are tiring, but you can get enough juice for a call if you're determined so
2022-06-04T01:52:54 < kaki> you might get 5w charging if you try hard
2022-06-04T01:53:38 < BrainDamage> the most fucky part is that they have a dumb linear regulator
2022-06-04T01:53:49 < BrainDamage> so the load on your hand is in turn ... not linear
2022-06-04T01:54:02 < kaki> only the cheapest solutions
2022-06-04T01:54:14 < kaki> that thing needs to sell on ebay for 1.99
2022-06-04T01:54:42 < BrainDamage> yeah, but I mean, you could make a 5$ version that'd be much more useful
2022-06-04T01:55:09 < jadew> you know, a better alternative is probably some form of flexible solar panel
2022-06-04T01:55:30 < BrainDamage> good luck getting it out
2022-06-04T01:55:39 < jadew> you wrap the phone in it
2022-06-04T01:56:09 < BrainDamage> btw, the crank thing works, I keep one in my bike's bag
2022-06-04T01:56:15 < kaki> best option is just battery cells
2022-06-04T01:56:22 < jadew> what do you use it for?
2022-06-04T01:56:24 < jadew> phone calls?
2022-06-04T01:56:42 < kaki> in those volumes you get months worth of cells
2022-06-04T01:56:55 < kaki> just replace one in phone
2022-06-04T01:57:03 < jadew> kaki, I assume people in jail don't have the money to keep spending on this stuff
2022-06-04T01:57:08 < jadew> so they need a reusable solution
2022-06-04T01:57:35 < BrainDamage> I've used it to power my phone to get to a supermarket, or similar when the battery was out and I was out of spare tires
2022-06-04T01:57:43 < BrainDamage> or was hungry
2022-06-04T01:57:57 < kaki> people who get phones and shit to jail have money or have favours done for them
2022-06-04T01:57:59 < BrainDamage> spare battery doesn't work because lazy me would not charge it
2022-06-04T01:58:19 < BrainDamage> so I need power available on the spot
2022-06-04T01:59:12 < jadew> that's pretty cool
2022-06-04T01:59:43 < jadew> now I wish I had one
2022-06-04T02:00:20 < BrainDamage> I've considered getting some sort of folding solar cell, but my experience with a simple backpack told me that keeping my back covered with anything non perspiring is hell while biking
2022-06-04T02:03:31 < jadew> maybe they're making hats with solar panels
2022-06-04T02:03:44 < jadew> they do
2022-06-04T02:04:15 < BrainDamage> if I had panniers for touring I'd totally put one there tho
2022-06-04T02:08:40 < jadew> so... is it just me or is everything more expensive?
2022-06-04T02:09:13 < jadew> I haven't done component shopping in a while, but most stuff seems to be 40-100% more expensive
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2022-06-04T02:09:46 < jadew> not only chips
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2022-06-04T02:10:27 < jadew> I'm buying this box, for one of my products, and its price is 40% higher than what it was 2 years ago
2022-06-04T02:11:59 < BrainDamage> food price here skyrocketed since the ukraine war
2022-06-04T02:12:13 < BrainDamage> part due to scalping, part due to energy costs
2022-06-04T02:12:16 < jadew> yeah, same here
2022-06-04T02:15:58 < jadew> I
2022-06-04T02:16:06 < jadew> I'll have to increase the price on my products
2022-06-04T02:16:23 < jadew> then nobody will buy them and I'll be able to focus on other stuff
2022-06-04T02:30:42 < Steffanx> Like ape pox? 😋
2022-06-04T02:31:35 < jadew> is it still going on?
2022-06-04T02:32:05 < Steffanx> Lol idk. Probably 
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2022-06-04T02:33:40 < jadew> what's the survivability rate on this one? 70%?
2022-06-04T02:38:45 < Steffanx> I recall it's pretty high in the modern Western world.
2022-06-04T02:39:01 < Steffanx> With proper medical care
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2022-06-04T02:39:33 < jadew> hmm, looks like it's spreading quite a lot
2022-06-04T02:39:41 < jadew> wtf...
2022-06-04T02:41:49 < Steffanx> Do you have sex with men? Seems to be a higher risk factor atm. Although not sure if that's backed by proper science:P
2022-06-04T02:42:09 < jadew> I don't
2022-06-04T02:42:35 < jadew> how is it transmitted?
2022-06-04T02:42:51 < jadew> I thought it required contact
2022-06-04T02:44:38 < jadew> I wonder if I'm vaccinated for smallpox
2022-06-04T02:45:49 < Steffanx> If you dont have this famous scar you're probably not
2022-06-04T02:46:25 < Steffanx> Unless they fixed that, but.. did they?
2022-06-04T02:47:05 < jadew> I have the scar, but I don't think it's for smallpox but tuberculosis
2022-06-04T02:48:43 < jadew> we're getting 1000 vaccines for mpox
2022-06-04T02:48:56 < jadew> for contacts
2022-06-04T03:28:54 < kaki> ##hiv32
2022-06-04T03:50:22 < Steffanx> Poor kaki
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2022-06-04T10:38:03 < zyp> jadew, yeah, the vaccine that leaves a scar is the BCG vaccine against tuberculosis
2022-06-04T11:21:17 < Steffanx> And so did the small pox vaccine, but they already stopped vaccinating in 1980 and im not sure jadew is that old.
2022-06-04T11:23:19 < Steffanx> Oh except for the military program, apparently they continued after 1980. Did jadew serve?
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2022-06-04T20:42:43 < ColdKeyboard> Any suggestions for a good read on multi power supply PCB design? I have multiple AC-DC converters (5V, 12V, 24V) that come into the PCB and then from PCB are distributed to other peripherals and other PCBs that have shielding, their own power supplies, connection to EGND etc.
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2022-06-04T21:41:12 < jpa-> having multiple AC-to-DC converters sounds weird to start with, i would just have one that either provides all necessary voltages or just regulate down from the highest
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2022-06-04T22:58:24 < catphish> zyp: i was lucky, my BCG never reacted at all
2022-06-04T23:10:03 < zyp> as I understand, they've more or less stopped vaccinating BCG here as well
2022-06-04T23:16:27 < zyp> ah, yeah, nowadays it's only offered if the kid got parents from a country where tuberculosis still is a thing
2022-06-04T23:17:40 < zyp> nurse went and looked up and figured it doesn't apply to us, «but do you want it anyway?» «yeah, sure, why not»
2022-06-04T23:36:51 < Steffanx> and zyp did get the "badge of honor"?
2022-06-04T23:37:07 < Steffanx> i think i was only tested for tuberculosis, not vaccinated.
2022-06-04T23:37:25 < zyp> it was part of the regular set of vaccines when I were a kid, yes
2022-06-04T23:38:22 < zyp> until 2009 apparently
2022-06-04T23:39:45 < Steffanx> oh i thought you meant you got it much later.
2022-06-04T23:40:47 < zyp> no, kid got it
2022-06-04T23:41:59 < zyp> probably never gonna need it, but why turn down a free offer
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2022-06-05T00:33:04 < jadew> Steffanx, jadew didn't serve
2022-06-05T00:35:16 < jadew> apparently the BCG one protects against fish tb too, so one less thing to worry about if you keep an aquarium
2022-06-05T00:35:40 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJa2kwoZ2a4
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2022-06-05T04:58:42 < bitmask_> international phone rates are crazy. I would have thought they were better by now
2022-06-05T04:59:12 < bitmask_> $2.05/MB, $1.79 a minute talk, 50c text send, 5c text receive
2022-06-05T04:59:37 < bitmask_> or $10 a day to match your local plan...
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2022-06-05T05:18:00 < specing> bitmask_: you mean roaming?
2022-06-05T05:19:43 < bitmask_> yea
2022-06-05T05:20:11 < specing> bitmask_: where are you?
2022-06-05T05:20:31 < specing> seems the EU really clamped down hard on roaming charges
2022-06-05T05:20:48 < bitmask_> I'm in the US, our plan includes US Canada and Mexico, my gf just got to the Philippines though
2022-06-05T05:20:54 < specing> the surcharges are in fractions of a cent
2022-06-05T05:21:50 < specing> $10 gets you a month-long prepaid 100 GB 25/25 mbit/s plan
2022-06-05T05:22:02 < bitmask_> she asked me to check the rates because she forgot and in the meantime I told her to be careful. so she sent me a sentence one word at a time to be funny. that was a $7 conversation
2022-06-05T05:22:15 < specing> Lmao
2022-06-05T05:27:05 < bitmask_> ugh. why does coding have to be so much organization. I feel like thats 80% of coding (at least OOP)
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2022-06-05T09:14:11 < bitmask> PENIS
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2022-06-05T12:20:43 < qyx> thanks EU for no-roaming
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2022-06-05T21:41:16 < specing> this board has oscin/oscout broken out and an oscillator placed... woot
2022-06-05T21:42:47 < specing> ^ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001639712812.html
2022-06-05T21:55:24 < catphish> is that a dev board with a modern chip, in stock?!
2022-06-05T21:55:52 < jpa-> STM32F401 is hardly modern
2022-06-05T21:56:26 < catphish> well it's "current"
2022-06-05T21:56:55 < catphish> i like the F411 (available on that board)
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2022-06-05T22:02:29 < catphish> actually i could be mistaken, i thought i liked f411 but can't see now what i'd have used it for
2022-06-05T22:02:50 < Steffanx> you wanted 412 for zhe CAN bus stuff
2022-06-05T22:04:30 < catphish> it would be nice if there was something available with both USB and CAN
2022-06-05T22:05:00 < catphish> ideally with the magic clock that doesn't need a crystal for USB
2022-06-05T22:05:26 < catphish> but i guess with both USB and CAN you're not going to get away with no crystals
2022-06-05T22:05:47 < Steffanx> maybe you will get away with it.. on your desk
2022-06-05T22:06:59 < qyx> there is, f042
2022-06-05T22:07:42 < qyx> or better, there is not
2022-06-05T22:07:44 < Steffanx> but is it available?
2022-06-05T22:07:46 < Steffanx> :P
2022-06-05T22:09:52 < catphish> oh, my favourite chip, the L433 does have CAN
2022-06-05T22:10:06 < catphish> (as well as crystal-less USB)
2022-06-05T22:11:01 < catphish> wonder if the internal oscillator is accurate enough for CAN (i have no idea why i have an obsession with not using crystals)
2022-06-05T22:13:03 < catphish> my car will be finished before STM32 is in stock though :D
2022-06-05T22:13:19 < Steffanx> i hope so.
2022-06-05T22:13:26 < Steffanx> for your project and sanity 
2022-06-05T22:14:13 < catphish> needs to be finished by Sept 1st
2022-06-05T22:14:24 < catphish> else it gets abandoned
2022-06-05T22:14:38 < Steffanx> lol why?
2022-06-05T22:14:45 < Steffanx> just set your own deadline?
2022-06-05T22:15:49 < catphish> 2 reasons 1) my wife is starting university in september, when she does, i need to be home to look after the dog and be house husband
2022-06-05T22:16:10 < catphish> 2) self imposed deadline for my own sanity (and to limit how much this thing is costing)
2022-06-05T22:20:42 < Steffanx> 1.. sounds like great fun hobby times :)
2022-06-05T22:22:30 < catphish> one big problem is that the workshop is 40 minutes drive away, i don't much enjoy travelling, so i'd like to get the car to the minimum working state ASAP, so i can bring it home, can do smaller bits on it here
2022-06-05T22:26:12 < specing> catphish: there's two versions of f401 boards on ali that I found
2022-06-05T22:26:43 < specing> one is that one, the other has -4 pins (A13,A14-SWD, H0,H1-OSC)
2022-06-05T22:26:54 < specing> but this one has A0 to A15 all in a nice row...
2022-06-05T22:27:19 < specing> but I wonder how good it is to use osc pins with crystal attached...
2022-06-05T22:28:53 < catphish> external crystal sounds like a pretty terrible idea
2022-06-05T22:37:29 < specing> catphish: I mean, there is a crystal on board AND the lines continue further to be broken out on the 0.1" header
2022-06-05T22:38:15 < specing> unless the pins marked H0,H1 are something other than the H0,H1 (osc in, osc out) from mcu
2022-06-05T22:38:19 < specing> doubtful though
2022-06-05T22:38:25 < catphish> how does that work?
2022-06-05T22:38:35 < catphish> surely you can't use them if there's a crystal in parallel?
2022-06-05T22:39:01 < specing> that's what I'm asking
2022-06-05T22:39:05 < specing> because I'm no EE
2022-06-05T22:40:24 < Steffanx> Physics or math, what was it again?
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2022-06-05T22:41:06 < specing> CS + math
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2022-06-06T00:13:34 < specing> .. having shifing capacitance between osc-in and osc-out can't be good, even if the things are merely plugged into a proto-board
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2022-06-06T09:28:38 < jpa-> specing: yeah, a bit funny design - on most ST official boards there is a solder jumper on the back for selecting whether the lines go to pins or to crystal
2022-06-06T09:30:44 < jpa-> because crystal is a lot like really small capacitor & inductor in series, you can use the PH0 & PH1 pins for GPIO just fine even if there is crystal in parallel
2022-06-06T09:31:31 < jpa-> so i guess the design kind of makes sense for such arduino-tier dev board
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2022-06-06T11:55:37 < qyx> it reminds me using PH0/PH1 and HSE to do a metal detector with a LC resonant tank connected instead of a crystal
2022-06-06T11:56:04 < qyx> and measuring HSE freq using LSE
2022-06-06T11:57:37 < \dev\ice> what is LSE?
2022-06-06T11:57:47  * catphish wishes he drove a resonant tank
2022-06-06T11:58:07 < qyx> low speed external, 32768 Hz clock
2022-06-06T12:03:34 < \dev\ice> ok
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2022-06-06T12:53:56 < specing> qyx: interesting
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2022-06-06T13:22:45 < jpa-> my motor driver seems to be progressing well; 1st revision burned every IC on the board; 2nd revision burned all 4 FETs and gate drivers; latest revision only burned 1 FET and gate driver
2022-06-06T13:35:24 < Mangy_Dog> yay progress
2022-06-06T13:35:35 < Mangy_Dog> though what kind of motor you running to burn things out so much? :p
2022-06-06T13:37:29 < jpa-> 250W DC motor for some CNC stuff
2022-06-06T13:37:40 < jpa-> but i doubt the motor has much fault in this :)
2022-06-06T13:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> oohh
2022-06-06T13:38:20 < Mangy_Dog> beefy though
2022-06-06T13:38:21 < Mangy_Dog> :d
2022-06-06T13:38:23 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2022-06-06T13:41:08 < jpa-> zyp: btw, i figured out a funny way to reason about interactions between physical and electrical world in motors: in mental model, replace the backemf voltage source with parallel resistor and capacitor; for me, 10 ohm and 0.2 F; the resistor calculated to match mechanical load and capacitor calculated to match mechanical inertia - these are easy to measure just by checking acceleration curve with constant 
2022-06-06T13:41:08 < jpa-> current
2022-06-06T13:41:39 < jpa-> zyp: somehow i find it much more trivial to think about "oh, 0.2 F capacitor that has been charged to 20V, now i know how much current will flow when i shunt brake it"
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2022-06-06T17:07:18 < catphish> jpa-: sounds like you need to go back to power electronics school :)
2022-06-06T17:08:49 < catphish> jpa-: out of interest, how did you mess that up? i mean what did you do to cause damage to the FETs? in my (limited) experience, it's not really that hard to get right, as long as you don't turn both legs on at the same time
2022-06-06T17:09:12 < catphish> but i don't mean to be offensive, genuinely interested to know what can go wrong
2022-06-06T17:09:13 < jpa-> probably just plain overloaded
2022-06-06T17:09:27 < jpa-> i designed for 5A but then it turned out i really want 10+A for the Z axis
2022-06-06T17:09:51 < jpa-> i'm now going to use the custom motor drivers only for X & Y, and use FSESC for Z axis as it is rated to 50A
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2022-06-06T17:13:35 < BrainDamage> you can also blow up mos if you turn them slowly
2022-06-06T17:20:33 < jpa-> and if you turn them fast in high voltage H-bridge, you get induced turn-on
2022-06-06T17:22:27 < catphish> well yes running 10A through 5A mosfets probably won't work great
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2022-06-06T18:00:04 < jpa-> the mosfets are rated 18A, but it's not like that means the driver would necessarily work at that current
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2022-06-06T18:19:01 < catphish> that's really a matter of switching speed
2022-06-06T18:19:18 < catphish> once they're charged, they're charged, it doesn't matter how much current you push though, the drivers will be idle
2022-06-06T18:20:49 < catphish> if they're blowing up within their rated current, then they need to spend less time in their active region, ie by driving them harder, or switching less often
2022-06-06T18:20:56 < catphish> (or so is my understanding)
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2022-06-06T19:54:06 < Guest33> looking for an example of extending the stm32 usb host library to handle composite devices - anyone seen something like this?
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2022-06-06T20:45:33 < karlp> doh, send ou tpcbs thursday, hoping to get them back this week, go away for the long weekend, get back to an email asking for clarification about the stencil order, been sitting around for three days
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2022-06-06T20:54:50 < Steffanx> awh
2022-06-06T20:55:12 < Steffanx> So from now on you will read you email 24/7/365?
2022-06-06T21:40:42 < qyx> time to get FO to your summer house
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2022-06-06T22:12:42 < kaki> hello summer crew
2022-06-06T22:21:47 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-06T22:27:39 < Steffanx> Welcome
2022-06-06T22:52:00 < specing> Does anyone know of a cheap stm32 minimal devboard that has a screen already attached? Like a bluepill, but with a basic spi screen. Maybe even some buttons and a housing. Can't find anything like this on ali...
2022-06-06T23:24:27 < kaki> catphish: box now
2022-06-06T23:24:38 < kaki> box box
2022-06-06T23:28:48 < catphish> kaki: no can do, had to stay home today
2022-06-06T23:29:00 < catphish> my wife's schedule is being a pain in my ass :)
2022-06-06T23:29:13 < kaki> are the prismatic cells still available btw?
2022-06-06T23:29:41 < catphish> kaki: i'm not sure, i'm aware of 2 people in the UK that sell them, it's a bit of a weird unadvertised thing
2022-06-06T23:30:09 < catphish> but i think some are still available
2022-06-06T23:30:38 < catphish> hopefully i'll be in the workshop tomorrow, though it'll be a short day
2022-06-06T23:31:02 < kaki> I have my eyes on gs450h auction
2022-06-06T23:31:07 < kaki> whole crash car
2022-06-06T23:32:06 < catphish> did you see my https://github.com/catphish/gs450h
2022-06-06T23:32:13 < kaki> 1day left - someone has bid 90euros for it
2022-06-06T23:32:25 < kaki> I feel like it's going for little moneys
2022-06-06T23:32:31 < catphish> my friend bought a whole gs450h to get the gearbox out :)
2022-06-06T23:33:15 < kaki> broken / crashed?
2022-06-06T23:33:34 < catphish> i think his was damaged by driveable, he drove it (very unsafely) home :)
2022-06-06T23:33:43 < catphish> *damaged but
2022-06-06T23:34:42 < kaki> how many volts inverter dc bus needs for full powah?
2022-06-06T23:34:54 < kaki> any idea?
2022-06-06T23:35:06 < catphish> it's a great setup anyway, really good quality inverter, controllable by a well known serial protocol, and 2 nicely integrated motors
2022-06-06T23:35:31 < catphish> you need about 600V for full power
2022-06-06T23:35:47 < kaki> well shit..
2022-06-06T23:36:22 < catphish> my friend is running it 160 series lithium cells
2022-06-06T23:36:44 < kaki> hobbyking rc plane lipos?
2022-06-06T23:36:57 < catphish> lol no, same batteries as my car
2022-06-06T23:37:18 < catphish> it's running 20 of those orange batteres, 10 (x16) in series, 2p
2022-06-06T23:37:28 < kaki> how much ££?
2022-06-06T23:37:36 < kaki> very many?
2022-06-06T23:38:16 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/nS052n7.jpg
2022-06-06T23:38:31 < catphish> the batteries are around £200 GBP each
2022-06-06T23:38:56 < kaki> 4000£
2022-06-06T23:39:47 < kaki> what is the maximum voltage of that inverter?
2022-06-06T23:40:09 < catphish> officially, 650V
2022-06-06T23:40:44 < catphish> frankly, i think my friend is taking a risk running 160S, as that has a fully charged voltage of 672V
2022-06-06T23:41:07 < kaki> what are transistors rated for?
2022-06-06T23:41:09 < catphish> the inverter actually has a boost converter in it, afaik nobody uses it though
2022-06-06T23:41:11 < catphish> no idea
2022-06-06T23:41:19 < catphish> https://openinverter.org/wiki/Lexus_GS450h_Inverter
2022-06-06T23:42:13 < catphish> "A boost module to boost the 288v battery pack up to 650v as used in the Lexus (Note that voltages this high are not required for EV conversions)."
2022-06-06T23:42:56 < catphish> 650V is what the OWM uses it at, via the boost converter, so i guess that's not the maximum
2022-06-06T23:43:12 < kaki> but if you want to have powah
2022-06-06T23:43:20 < kaki> you go straight to dc bus
2022-06-06T23:43:30 < catphish> right
2022-06-06T23:43:39 < catphish> 600V to DC bus seems like it'll be awesome
2022-06-06T23:43:46 < catphish> but also, everyone says it works fine at much lower voltage, like 360V
2022-06-06T23:44:53 < kaki> how many kwh was one prismatic cell?
2022-06-06T23:45:24 < kaki> something like 1.8 or something?
2022-06-06T23:53:51 < kaki> 650v is a bit unconvinient though
2022-06-06T23:54:18 < kaki> heaters, pumps and shit usually don't work on such high voltage
2022-06-06T23:54:40 < kaki> unless.. you make the converter to power such low voltage devices
2022-06-06T23:55:10 < kaki> apparently nobody knows how the converter works and it has not been used yet by anyone
2022-06-06T23:55:53 < catphish> one battery module (16 cells) is about 1.5kWh
2022-06-06T23:56:11 < catphish> i'd stick with 300 to 360V
2022-06-06T23:56:28 < catphish> my car is 300, i'd have preferred 360, but space didn't allow the modules
--- Day changed ti kesä 07 2022
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2022-06-07T00:06:34 < kaki> anyone tried to trick more power out of that gearbox?
2022-06-07T00:07:11 < englishman> i cut a hole in the floor so I could press my gas pedal further
2022-06-07T00:08:17 < kaki> 200hp is fine if your car is 1600kg
2022-06-07T00:08:30 < kaki> from 0-40kmh
2022-06-07T00:10:08 < kaki> at least if all wheel drive
2022-06-07T00:10:45 < kaki> with rear wheel drive the fun extends maybe to 60kmh
2022-06-07T00:14:32 < kaki> :o
2022-06-07T00:14:44 < kaki> have some small thing for front axle
2022-06-07T00:14:55 < kaki> 100hp small something tiny
2022-06-07T00:15:29 < kaki> I think friend had some motor like that more like a big diff
2022-06-07T00:15:45 < kaki> tossable
2022-06-07T00:17:07 < catphish> kaki: you will get nearly twice what the gearbox is officially rated for, because it has 2 motors, and the OEM only uses one of them
2022-06-07T00:17:34 < catphish> (they use the second one as a generator and starter motor for the ICE)
2022-06-07T00:17:46 < catphish> but you can just use both as motors and get twice the power
2022-06-07T00:18:09 < kaki> hmm
2022-06-07T00:18:18 < kaki> HMM!!
2022-06-07T00:18:23 < catphish> "Rated for a combined 250kW output."
2022-06-07T00:18:45 < kaki> 336hp right?
2022-06-07T00:18:53 < catphish> yes
2022-06-07T00:19:39 < kaki> that is in the fun-range
2022-06-07T00:19:43 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1533920294200655872
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2022-06-07T00:25:28 < catphish> kaki: well, yes, but fun is more complicated when it comes to EV
2022-06-07T00:25:46 < kaki> catphish: your friend.. planning to 336hp it?
2022-06-07T00:25:55 < catphish> yes he is
2022-06-07T00:26:08 < kaki> ofc
2022-06-07T00:26:48 < catphish> but bear in mind, the inverter and motor will give 100% torque until it runs out of power from the battery
2022-06-07T00:27:45 < catphish> so if you run at half the voltage you will get exactly the same power off the line
2022-06-07T00:28:09 < catphish> there's no gears, and power = torque * rpm
2022-06-07T00:28:28 < catphish> so... with less power, you get the same torque, it just runs out at a lower speed
2022-06-07T00:31:10 < kaki> yeea.. but there is also final gear, wheel size etc.
2022-06-07T00:32:00 < kaki> I don't need car to go 280kmh - never
2022-06-07T00:33:13 < catphish> so, my car with the tesla drive unit, will supply 300V to the motor at 83kph
2022-06-07T00:34:08 < kaki> that's your top speed?
2022-06-07T00:34:38 < catphish> no, that speed is what openinverter calls fweak
2022-06-07T00:35:14 < catphish> basically that is the speed at which the motor requires the full 300V in order to achieve maximum torque
2022-06-07T00:35:22 < kaki> ah
2022-06-07T00:35:56 < catphish> so at 83kph, full throttle, it will be pulling 650A at 300A and is totally maxes out
2022-06-07T00:36:35 < catphish> *300V
2022-06-07T00:37:42 < catphish> at 40kph, full throttle, it will still push 650A through the motor, but will only require 150V to do so, it acts as a buck converter hence pulls 325A from the 300V battery, you still get full torque (the same acceleration) but you're only drawing half the power to achieve it
2022-06-07T00:39:14 < catphish> once you get above 83kph... you still use the full 300A but because of back EMF, the current starts to reduce
2022-06-07T00:39:29 < catphish> *300V
2022-06-07T00:41:51 < catphish> in fact the voltage and current (power) remain the same, you just get less torque as the rpm increases
2022-06-07T00:43:48 < catphish> the point of all of this is that "fun" depends on what you want to achieve, if you love going at high speeds, then voltage and power are your friend, but if you love torque and pulling away from traffic lights (which is more my thing) then reducing weight and using a high current motor is more important then high power (heavy, higher voltage) batteries
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2022-06-07T04:33:33 < GenTooMan> catphish, I believe you should look into SVM (Space Vector Modulation) if you want to use a synchronous AC motor. Fortunately these days the PWM frequency attainable is much better than it was a few decades ago.
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2022-06-07T09:49:30 < catphish> GenTooMan: i've not done any work with synchronous motors yet
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2022-06-07T13:32:12 < srk> neat stack https://www.precisionaeroproducts.com.au/media/com_hikashop/upload/jeti-dc-14-transmitter-2.jpg
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2022-06-07T15:54:30 < fenugrec> mawk would be proud, I developped a 10 year old 35mm film I had forgotten about: https://postimg.cc/LqqyMjQX  behold analog noise, so vastly superior to vulgar digital noise that it even compensates for bad focus and composition
2022-06-07T16:22:40 < mawk> nice fenugrec 
2022-06-07T16:22:58 < mawk> the water rendered well
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2022-06-07T17:35:06 < bitmask> good morning
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2022-06-07T17:50:21 < Steffanx> Gooday mr sir bitmask 
2022-06-07T17:50:47 < bitmask> hows everything goin?
2022-06-07T17:53:24 < Steffanx> Fine fine. Monday blues though. And its not even monday
2022-06-07T17:53:38 < bitmask> heh
2022-06-07T17:55:34 < bitmask> a spider has made its home in my car.  ive never seen it but theres always a new strand of silk every time I enter... Should I bug bomb my car?
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2022-06-07T18:12:13 < mawk> spiders are nice
2022-06-07T18:12:22 < bitmask> they freak me out
2022-06-07T18:12:31 < bitmask> im a pussy when it comes to insects :P
2022-06-07T18:12:48 < mawk> I had a pet spider 2 years ago
2022-06-07T18:13:38 < bitmask> a tarantula isn't so bad but I just think of spiders crawling on my face when im sleeping or something
2022-06-07T18:14:50 < bitmask> last week I was walking into the kitchen and a foot from my face a spider was repelling from the ceiling 
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2022-06-07T18:19:53 < bitmask> hmmm, what else do i need from the grocery store....
2022-06-07T18:20:46 < bitmask> shrimp dip
2022-06-07T18:20:49 < bitmask> yum
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2022-06-07T23:43:57  * catphish waits for kaki and his inevitable question, for which i have a good answer
2022-06-07T23:50:59 < Steffanx> Box box?
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2022-06-07T23:56:39 < catphish> box finished! https://i.imgur.com/j1Ttlq1.jpg
2022-06-07T23:56:52 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/lWuYRcG.jpg
--- Day changed ke kesä 08 2022
2022-06-08T00:04:21 -!- kaki [~kaki@37-136-207-155.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-08T00:04:33 < kaki> hello early
2022-06-08T00:04:48 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2022-06-08T00:04:52 < kaki> catphish: box now
2022-06-08T00:04:55 < Steffanx> You're late.
2022-06-08T00:05:12 < catphish> kaki: too late
2022-06-08T00:05:13 < karlp> looking at super cheap fets, "low on resistance" => 8ohms....
2022-06-08T00:05:14 < kaki> I did mighnight moped things
2022-06-08T00:05:22 < Steffanx> That's a nice proper looking box catphish 
2022-06-08T00:05:28 < catphish> <Steffanx> Box box?
2022-06-08T00:05:35 < catphish> <catphish> box finished! [redacted link to photos]
2022-06-08T00:06:30 < kaki> damn it's nice looking
2022-06-08T00:06:59 < catphish> kaki: https://imgur.com/a/BFj4kY5
2022-06-08T00:09:00 < catphish> the powder coating really does hide all sins
2022-06-08T00:10:54 < kaki> it does
2022-06-08T00:10:57 < kaki> to a degree
2022-06-08T00:12:16 < catphish> anyway i'm happy, the rest of my powder coating (charger mount, motor mount, vacuum pump mount) are also now finished powder coating so tomorrow i can really start putting everything together
2022-06-08T00:12:48 < catphish> my friend has ordered a portable car lift, so later in the week i will get it lifted and hopefully do the drive shafts
2022-06-08T00:13:17 < BrainDamage> what's the vacuum for? brakes?
2022-06-08T00:13:36 < catphish> yeah
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2022-06-08T00:14:07 < catphish> i'd like to put in an electric brake assist, but for now, a vacuum pump will allow the original brake assist to work with minimal changes
2022-06-08T00:22:07 < kaki> catphish: are there any prismatic battery cells with even higher W/kg than what you are using?
2022-06-08T00:31:19 < bitmask> jesus, I think my transfer bottleneck is my hard drive and not my internet connection
2022-06-08T00:33:06 < Steffanx> Are those darker spots oil smudges or ... ?
2022-06-08T00:39:19 < catphish> kaki: i'm not sure, mine are quite poor density compared to tesla modules i think, but those are cylindrical cells
2022-06-08T00:39:37 < kaki> I didn't say capacity
2022-06-08T00:39:52 < kaki> ah but there is power density too
2022-06-08T00:40:13 < kaki> good I corrected myself from correcting incorrectly
2022-06-08T00:41:06 < catphish> oh you meant *power* density, not energy
2022-06-08T00:41:27 < catphish> i'd say the two are probably quite closely correlated
2022-06-08T00:41:49 < catphish> actually maybe not
2022-06-08T00:42:27 < catphish> the capacity of mine is quite low, but i suppose the power is comparatively quite high, i've really not done any calculations on this though
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2022-06-08T01:00:45 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHWXZyfhQas
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2022-06-08T01:50:54 < karlp> heh, doing a "fast" project, bom cost to buy 10 is $1.80 per unit.
2022-06-08T02:06:21 < catphish> public service announcement: 60VDC hurts if you apply it to your arm! don't do that
2022-06-08T02:06:25 < catphish> my arm still aches
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2022-06-08T02:21:47 < karlp> lol, got this far into it, and then remembered I was meant to have a pcb inv F antenna... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bY6dL/Screenshot%20from%202022-06-07%2023-21-16.png
2022-06-08T02:22:21 < karlp> even put in a symbol for the antenna so I wouldn't forget and everything...
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2022-06-08T08:51:39 < jpa-> karlp: just draw a squiggly line wherever you can fit, that is the industry standard way
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2022-06-08T13:01:37 < karlp> nearly got there last night, kicad was just refusing to flood gnd to gnd, must have mixed up something weird.
2022-06-08T13:08:47 < jpa-> i had that when i accidentally selected "Pad connection: None" instead of "Pad connection: Solid"
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2022-06-08T13:46:23 < karlp> yah, it's on solid, connecting to everywhwere else except the gound terminal of the antenna footprint, will look at it later :)
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2022-06-08T13:58:38 < c10ud_> PCA9685 needs a little i2c help restarting the pwm after a power loss.. do I really have to bypass it with hw logic so I can get my leds lit after a power loss without involving the mcu?
2022-06-08T14:00:40 < jpa-> what else would you expect?
2022-06-08T14:00:53 < c10ud_> well, its registers keep the values i've set
2022-06-08T14:01:24 < c10ud_> it's just it doesnt start, so in order to make a dimmed "DC presence" led..can't just rely on it
2022-06-08T14:02:23 < jpa-> if it doesn't have actual non-volatile memory, the registers keep value just by capacitance for short time after power removal
2022-06-08T14:02:45 < c10ud_> they do keep the values 
2022-06-08T14:03:08 < c10ud_> it's just feeding it power, and forcing the  /OE pin is not enough it seems
2022-06-08T14:03:40 < jpa-> does the datasheet specify that the values are kept without power, or have you just noticed that they remain for some time?
2022-06-08T14:04:50 < jpa-> (though in reality i would expect the power on reset to reset all the registers)
2022-06-08T14:05:18 < c10ud_> didnt read the ds throuhgly tbh, my ex colleague told me so
2022-06-08T14:05:39 < c10ud_> and effectively reading the last value on platform boot up would give consistent values
2022-06-08T14:05:56 < jpa-> are you actually removing power from the PCA chip?
2022-06-08T14:06:00 < c10ud_> yup
2022-06-08T14:06:39 < jpa-> i see no mention of non-volatile memory, so either it is just by luck or then there is some capacitance or leakage that keeps the chip powered
2022-06-08T14:07:05 < zyp> leakage through i2c pullups? :)
2022-06-08T14:07:47 < c10ud_> isolated from the master board but well..
2022-06-08T14:08:16 < c10ud_> there are some caps
2022-06-08T14:09:17 < jpa-> it is fairly usual for the power draw of chips to drop a lot once you get below certain voltage
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2022-06-08T14:10:04 < jpa-> which can leave them in weird mid-way state, it can happen with STM32s also (i had one RTC problem due to that)
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2022-06-08T14:12:23 < c10ud_> uh, then I guess i'll have to add an hardware logic for that specific led I need
2022-06-08T14:13:39 < jpa-> like, resistor and power led? :)
2022-06-08T14:14:16 < c10ud_> needs to be dimmable to 0
2022-06-08T14:14:27 < c10ud_> that's the issue
2022-06-08T14:14:36 < c10ud_> while device is operating ofc
2022-06-08T14:15:52 < c10ud_> I think I'll just force its state when voltage coming from the operating motherboard is not detected
2022-06-08T14:16:26 < c10ud_> which is what is probably expected now with a nice pull up I see, it's just this chip is not going high impedance if not forcing its outputs
2022-06-08T14:16:34 < c10ud_> it really sets them to LOW
2022-06-08T14:16:44 < c10ud_> i'll double check with the scope, 
2022-06-08T14:17:10 < c10ud_> maybe I could just tie the /OE pin to the operating voltage negated
2022-06-08T14:17:22 < c10ud_> and hopefully the already-present pull up will work
2022-06-08T14:17:32 < jpa-> when you enable the PCA9685 outputs, they can override the external pull-up resistor on the LED
2022-06-08T14:17:55 < c10ud_> I have them force-enabled (/OE to gnd)
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2022-06-08T14:51:57 < karlp> hrm, nexperia pmeg2005, sod962-2, has a recommended footprint and paste pattern in the datasheet, so far so good.
2022-06-08T14:52:22 < karlp> product page has a link to package information, which is _newer_ and has _different_ past pattern and land pattern.
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2022-06-08T18:24:39 < qyx> re pmeg, I used pmeg3030 to block negative spikes on solenoid outputs
2022-06-08T18:24:44 < qyx> 24 V nominal
2022-06-08T18:25:25 < qyx> it didn't even survive switching an optocoupler on a 2 m long cable
2022-06-08T18:27:02 < qyx> so I replaced them with SL1M rated for 1 kV
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2022-06-08T18:46:29 < karlp> you used a 30V abs max rated diode to block things on a 24v system?
2022-06-08T18:47:47 < karlp> crazy german semi company, cute.
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2022-06-08T18:48:52 < karlp> classic german.  3 page datasheet, 1 entire page devoted to terms and conditions in two languages.
2022-06-08T19:44:16 < qyx> of course I did use what was actually in my shelf supplies
2022-06-08T19:49:04 < karlp> ok, "tailgating" works now.  thanks for no examples and a weird hal/api silabs.
2022-06-08T19:49:38 < karlp> if you have configured scanning channels for the adc, then add a single channel to be "tailgated" after scan queues, it does a disable/enable step to do the config,
2022-06-08T19:49:54 < karlp> that effectively turns off the scanning, and must be re-enabled manually :|
2022-06-08T19:57:59 < karlp> is it university time or something?
2022-06-08T19:58:18 < karlp> I'm getting a whole pile of really pretty fluffy commits sent too all sorts of projects.
2022-06-08T20:03:04 < jpa-> summer project time
2022-06-08T20:11:04 < karlp> I am not filled with joy...
2022-06-08T20:16:56 < machinehum> How would one select a transformer for something like this
2022-06-08T20:16:58 < machinehum> https://www.power.com/sites/default/files/documents/linkswitch-3_family_datasheet.pdf
2022-06-08T20:17:16 < machinehum> The schematic says "EPC17" but that looks like a case
2022-06-08T20:18:18 < machinehum> Randomly use something like this ? https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/pulse-electronics-power/P5009NL/5436433?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Smart%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUS&utm_term=&productid=5436433&gclid=CjwKCAjwkYGVBhArEiwA4sZLuH8we_EMNU5b9pc0R14gA5G67DkA4mCSda9pS9S8mNiEBAVCaVXrLxoCwLAQAvD_BwE
2022-06-08T20:20:11 < karlp> use their design guide?
2022-06-08T20:23:28 < machinehum> Makes sense
2022-06-08T20:24:17 < jpa-> for selling, gets too costly to certify custom power supplies; for own use, i just don't dare
2022-06-08T20:24:58 < machinehum> If the product has a BOM cost of $12
2022-06-08T20:25:32 < machinehum> One can not use a 15$ CUI unit
2022-06-08T20:27:09 < jpa-> how many will be manufactured?
2022-06-08T20:28:27 < machinehum> Unclear
2022-06-08T20:29:00 < machinehum> I guess it makes more sense to ask the client to prove the market with a module, then can look into a custom supply
2022-06-08T20:29:18 < jpa-> i expect that certifying a custom supply would be at least $10k
2022-06-08T20:29:42 < machinehum> That's less than I would have expected
2022-06-08T20:30:07 < machinehum> Well that's not including EMI... which is another concern
2022-06-08T20:30:28 < machinehum> I assume the CUI boxes are half decent EMI wise
2022-06-08T20:30:28 < jpa-> EMI for non-intentional emitters is usually around $1k AFAIK
2022-06-08T20:30:58 < machinehum> Well the NRE to fuss with the supply would probably be a lot
2022-06-08T20:41:50 < qyx> I would not call any moduled PSU half-decent EMI-wise
2022-06-08T20:42:15 < qyx> most of them is not conforming without external caps and/or filters
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2022-06-08T21:07:02 < machinehum> I'm sure they're better than what I would make
2022-06-08T21:07:23 < machinehum> On the datasheets they have all the EMI tricks and stuff
2022-06-08T21:52:23 < karlp> yeah, anyone a ws28xx expert? it looks like ws2812x-mini (3.5x3.5mm) and -2020 (2.0x2.0mm) both support 2.7V as Vhigh threshold, and no longer need 0.7*Vdd?
2022-06-08T21:52:25 < karlp> am I right there?
2022-06-08T21:53:14 < karlp> qyx: you can get modules with an without the "correct" filtering :)
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2022-06-08T22:43:56 < upgrdman> https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/v7i5vv/enjoying_a_tasty_afternoon_shake_who_hasnt/
2022-06-08T22:50:49 < Steffanx> Thanks laurenceman.
2022-06-08T22:51:37 < qyx> only a half-expert, I did write some code to drive them
2022-06-08T22:51:43 < qyx> other than that, no
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2022-06-08T23:38:08 < catphish> morning
2022-06-08T23:43:31 < srk> night :)
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--- Day changed to kesä 09 2022
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2022-06-09T00:17:30 < Steffanx> Farmer farming kaki 
2022-06-09T00:18:04 < kaki> early steff
2022-06-09T00:18:57 < catphish> happy 8th June kaki
2022-06-09T00:19:17 < kaki> what is 8th of june?
2022-06-09T00:19:26 < catphish> today
2022-06-09T00:21:43 < Steffanx> It's not for kaki 
2022-06-09T00:21:59 < kaki> true
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2022-06-09T00:22:15 < kaki> I'm living different day than you
2022-06-09T00:22:52 < catphish> my day was quite pleasant, i got my remaining parts back from powder coating and started final assembly of vehicle
2022-06-09T00:23:09 < catphish> all is well but i still have to do driveshafts (scary job)
2022-06-09T00:28:48 < kaki> it needs to be welded in lathe right?
2022-06-09T00:29:26 < kaki> I assume you take 2 driveshafts or something and then marry them
2022-06-09T00:30:38 < catphish> kaki: yeah, take 2 driveshafts, cut both in half, make one make and one female, press them together and weld
2022-06-09T00:35:23 < kaki> do you call the process marrying?
2022-06-09T00:35:28 < kaki> in english
2022-06-09T00:36:57 < kaki> make 2 pieces to tight match and then press them together
2022-06-09T00:40:32 < BrainDamage> mating
2022-06-09T00:45:24 < kaki> yes
2022-06-09T00:46:01 < catphish> kaki: mating, sometimes marrying
2022-06-09T00:55:47 < kaki> I didn't get the gs450h
2022-06-09T00:57:05 < kaki> I was about to bid but it required environmental permit for transporting, storage and handling of junk cars
2022-06-09T00:57:56 < kaki> as it was totaled it was labeled "for demolition"
2022-06-09T00:59:12 < kaki> that's why the thing was only 90euros 1day before end of auction
2022-06-09T01:01:24 < ColdKeyboard> Any suggestions for MIPI-to-USB bridge modules or ICs?
2022-06-09T01:03:09 < kaki> fx2?
2022-06-09T01:05:07 < kaki> ah no..
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2022-06-09T01:24:05 < catphish> kaki: in UK, cars can be labeled with a damage category, "A" means that must be destroyed, including *all* parts, "B" means that the chassis must be destroyed but other parts can be salvaged, "C" and "D" mean structural or non-structural damage has occurred, but you're allowed to repair it
2022-06-09T01:25:11 < catphish> kaki: i dislike countries that require licences for silly things like moving a car
2022-06-09T01:25:40 < catphish> the UK is insanely permissive really
2022-06-09T01:25:55 < kaki> just getting the ownership of wrecked car requires environmental permit
2022-06-09T01:26:13 < kaki> if it's labeled to be demolished
2022-06-09T01:26:35 < kaki> if it's labeled repairable then it's okay you can buy it and repair it yourself
2022-06-09T01:27:50 < catphish> i don't really know what happens to category A and B cars here, you have to be licenced to destroy them, and can't drive them on the road, but i don't think there's any limits on owning them in the meantime
2022-06-09T01:28:26 < catphish> of course nobody would ever buy a category "A" car unless they were a licenced scrapyard, because you're not allowed to use the parts anyway
2022-06-09T01:31:13 < kaki> category A doesn't make sense
2022-06-09T01:31:22 < kaki> unless car has burned or something
2022-06-09T01:32:07 < kaki> meaning even the parts that survived may not have the same stuctural integrity anymore
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2022-06-09T01:36:52 < kaki> rolled over by steam roller like in animation films or had beem crashed in very high speed
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2022-06-09T01:46:31 < catphish> kaki: i assume this category A would only be issued in very serious accidents, or in cases or fire / water damage
2022-06-09T01:47:02 < catphish> they're generally assigned by insurance company assessors, i don't know what the criteria are
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2022-06-09T02:19:04 < karlp> well, is that it? is that going to work? .... https://github.com/karlp/veittur-p1-ble
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2022-06-09T11:08:07 < qyx> any pro on libinput transformation matrices?
2022-06-09T11:08:14 < qyx> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1275038/coordinate-transformation-matrix-and-libinput-calibration-matrix-how-are-t
2022-06-09T11:08:30 < qyx> I need to scale X by ~ 0.8
2022-06-09T11:09:00 < qyx> the answer is probably obvious
2022-06-09T11:09:08 < qyx> but I forgot to matrix
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2022-06-09T11:13:58 < qyx> ok I got it
2022-06-09T11:14:48 < srk> a = 0.8? 
2022-06-09T11:16:09 < srk> rest like identity
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2022-06-09T11:39:39 < mawk> to do A[x, y] = [0.8x, y] then A is Diag(0.8, 1)
2022-06-09T11:40:17 < mawk> or Diag(0.8, 1, 1) if you use homogeneous coordinates 
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2022-06-09T11:53:03 < milkylainen> stm32mp1 dk2 questions?
2022-06-09T11:54:50 < milkylainen> u-boot 2020.10-r2. Not getting the ethernet mac address on the ethernet mac. "Error: ethernet@5800a000 address not set". I thought the mac was stored in bsec otp?
2022-06-09T11:55:13 < milkylainen> I must be missing some configuration, not sure what though.
2022-06-09T11:58:15 < Xogium> milkylainen: it... should ? At least far as I'm aware
2022-06-09T12:07:39 < qyx> milkylainen: what Xogium says, there is no MAC allocated iirc
2022-06-09T12:07:55 < qyx> oh that's not what Xogium says
2022-06-09T12:08:42 < qyx> are you using vendor provided u-boot or what is the reason for using a 2020 version?
2022-06-09T12:10:55 < qyx> my stm32mp1 board rev2 is waiting to be manufactured, I should aisler it soon
2022-06-09T12:11:31 < Xogium> qyx: no mac allocated... Even on a dev kit ?
2022-06-09T12:11:59 < Xogium> I'd have thought they do that, at the very least for the dev boards
2022-06-09T12:13:50 < qyx> I remember I have read somewhere you have to handle MAC addresses yourself
2022-06-09T12:13:57 < Xogium> then again, I suppose that having a whole bunch of macs that belong to st in an eval set5ting could be a bit confusing. When you've got only 2 or 3 dev kits okay, but if you have over 100 of them, say
2022-06-09T12:14:00 < qyx> that's about all I remember
2022-06-09T12:14:11 < Xogium> *setting rather
2022-06-09T12:14:54 < Xogium> yeah that kinda make sense to not burn them into the otp given they are evaluation boards...
2022-06-09T12:15:26 < zyp> either you'd have to assign them all unique macs, or not bother at all
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2022-06-09T12:50:13 < milkylainen> qyx: Vendor provided u-boot. 2020.10. Latest?
2022-06-09T12:51:05 < milkylainen> I guess it's fine that I have to handle it myself. But I don't see anything prepped in env or in letting u-boot set a random ethernet mac?
2022-06-09T12:51:49 < milkylainen> So I'm like "is this ethernet mac whine just me or is it always there unless I fix it?"
2022-06-09T12:51:53 < milkylainen> Seems kinda odd.
2022-06-09T12:52:09 < milkylainen> I would have suspected me to be the cause of the error here. :)
2022-06-09T12:52:32 < milkylainen> bsec.c is always compiled. So I dunno what the error is.
2022-06-09T12:58:43 < Xogium> hmm it should only whine about no mac, shouldn't be an issue...
2022-06-09T12:59:04 < Xogium> though I never actually used ethernet in vendor u-boot
2022-06-09T12:59:38 < Xogium> I reckon setting ethaddr in env should do it ?
2022-06-09T13:00:19 < milkylainen> Xogium: yeah. I can go random too. But I figured it should do something more useful... or have some standard mechanism.
2022-06-09T13:01:33 < Xogium> https://st.force.com/community/s/article/FAQ-STM32MP1-bring-up-troubleshooting-guide
2022-06-09T13:01:46 < Xogium> mac address stuff is listed in there
2022-06-09T13:04:04 < milkylainen> So no vendor prefix on stm32mp1? huh.
2022-06-09T13:04:21 < Xogium> doesn't seem like it..
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2022-06-09T13:17:13 < milkylainen> the dk2 board also seems to think that I am running without usb pd. Complaining all the time about 500mA. Probably true. Negotiations failed for > 500mA, but I don't think I'm the problem.
2022-06-09T13:17:27 < milkylainen> I've tried several chargers with pd and cables.
2022-06-09T13:17:35 < Xogium> hmm what psu do you use ?
2022-06-09T13:17:42 < milkylainen> qualcomm.
2022-06-09T13:17:50 < milkylainen> and various other brands.
2022-06-09T13:18:02 < Xogium> ah I don't think it wants pd ? Not sure. Here I don't have any warnings at all, using a baic 5v 3a psu
2022-06-09T13:18:13 < Xogium> *basic
2022-06-09T13:18:22 < Xogium> actually, a raspberry pi 4 psu lol
2022-06-09T13:18:39 < milkylainen> hmm. > 500mA on 5V without PD?
2022-06-09T13:19:13 < Xogium> unless the rpi psu is using pd ? But in that case I didn't know
2022-06-09T13:19:44 < Xogium> fwiw my computer can also power it up just fine over its single usb c port
2022-06-09T13:19:54 < Xogium> and computers are known to not have pd
2022-06-09T13:20:00 < qyx> milkylainen: yes, usb-c allows 5 V/3 A without PD
2022-06-09T13:20:39 < milkylainen> qyx: oh, ok.
2022-06-09T13:21:08 < milkylainen> Xogium: Yeah. Mine powers it up just fine over usb-c. But I still get complaints. Prolly to USB-A -> USB-C cable?
2022-06-09T13:21:28 < milkylainen> Missing pins?
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2022-06-09T13:21:53 < milkylainen> I tried a pure usb-c charger with 3 amps. Still complaints.
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2022-06-09T13:22:24 < Xogium> hmm that's possibly it
2022-06-09T13:22:35 < Xogium> usb a is rated for 2a max, iirc
2022-06-09T13:23:25 < Xogium> still usb c to usb c should have no issue
2022-06-09T13:23:26 < qyx> also, zyp is your usb guru
2022-06-09T13:23:51 < qyx> and i would not be surprised it is complaining, the code is awful
2022-06-09T13:24:05 < qyx> the whole ST's support for stm32mp1 is half assed
2022-06-09T13:24:31 < qyx> I experienced some adventures trying to get anything running on a custom board
2022-06-09T13:25:08 < qyx> nearly everything is hard-coded for their dk1/dk2, you have to write an actual c code to port u-boot/linux to your board
2022-06-09T13:25:54 < Xogium> well, in this case its a dk2
2022-06-09T13:26:03 < Xogium> so I'm actually surprised it complains
2022-06-09T13:26:22 < qyx> yes but PD is done using ADC, thresholds and everything is hardcoded
2022-06-09T13:26:45 < Xogium> hmm
2022-06-09T13:26:53 < qyx> core voltages are hardcoded, memory config too, because why not, fuck the whole devicetree concept
2022-06-09T13:26:58 < qyx> pardon my french
2022-06-09T13:27:21 < Xogium> I didn't know it was like that
2022-06-09T13:27:29 < qyx> and if you think you can rename a vreg in DT, no
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2022-06-09T13:27:41 < qyx> because it is searched for by exact name
2022-06-09T13:27:44 < Xogium> honestly, I had no issue with the dk2 board itself, same for the odyssey from seeed
2022-06-09T13:28:14 < Xogium> but then again, I guess it all depends what you intend on doing
2022-06-09T13:28:28 < qyx> so, yes, I would expect their SDK using old u-boot and kernel works
2022-06-09T13:28:34 < qyx> I used upstreamed support
2022-06-09T13:28:51 < milkylainen> hmm. qc chargers won't do it either?
2022-06-09T13:29:22 < Xogium> yeah... works kind of good actually, for what I'm doing
2022-06-09T13:30:05 < Xogium> I honestly don't know if it would work. I just use a typical rpi 4 psu here and never had issues
2022-06-09T13:32:18 < milkylainen> Ack.
2022-06-09T13:32:37 < milkylainen> I'll run off to the nearest store and get one. :)
2022-06-09T13:34:05 < Xogium> not the most badass psu around but given it gave 3a at 5v, it works good
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2022-06-09T13:43:07 < karlp> neat, auracast sounds cool.
2022-06-09T13:43:39 < karlp> it's actually kinda exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of trying to hack together, but wasn't sure how to make the phone side work...
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2022-06-09T14:42:14 < milkylainen> Xogium: Bought a 3a 5v psu without pd. Now the dk2 complains that "current is too low" and "usb-c in unattached mode".
2022-06-09T14:42:22 < milkylainen> This thing is never happy. :)
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2022-06-09T20:11:38 < bitmask> oops
2022-06-09T20:11:44 < bitmask> i got burned
2022-06-09T20:12:29 < bitmask> laid out for an hour yesterday and nothing happened. did the same today and im pretty red
2022-06-09T20:13:28 < jpa-> should have put on your 0xFF mask
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2022-06-09T21:15:10 < fenugrec> or 0x55 for zebra stripes
2022-06-09T21:17:14 < mawk> I prefer 0xAA zebras
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2022-06-09T22:45:08 < evidlo> anyone have experience with mbed?  I'm just trying to build their blinky example and it seems broken right out of the gate
2022-06-09T22:45:40 < evidlo> not sure if I'm doing something wrong.  It can't find mbed.h even though I can see the mbed-os/ folder in the tree
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--- Day changed pe kesä 10 2022
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2022-06-10T00:11:10 < kaki> hello early
2022-06-10T00:11:40 < Steffanx> Hello Mr sauna 
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2022-06-10T05:33:52 < upgrdman> anyone know if running from RAM (as opposed to running from Flash) would result in cleaner ADC samples?
2022-06-10T05:34:40 < fenugrec> why would it
2022-06-10T05:37:21 < upgrdman> well Errata sheet says there the ADC has a problem related to internal shit, and some work around to mask Flash reads during part of the ADC sampling
2022-06-10T05:37:43 < upgrdman> so maybe not using Flash at all (after boot up) would help if the noise is related to the Flash peripheral
2022-06-10T05:39:06 < fenugrec> interesting errata. wonder if the failure is "noise" or completely corrupt data due to bus access violations or something
2022-06-10T05:40:09 < upgrdman> sounded like silicon fuckup where parasitics or poor silicon vdd/gnd handling
2022-06-10T05:41:02 < upgrdman> interestingly, playing with GCC optimization level makes VERY noticeable changes. -O0 (no optim.) is really noise. -01 is cleaner. trying 2 and 3 now
2022-06-10T05:46:08 < upgrdman> -O1 and -O2 worked best. -O0 was super noisey, -O3 has less but more spikey noise, -Ospeed and -Osize were not as good as 1 and 2
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2022-06-10T09:58:12 < zyp> wonder if that's because -O2 results in fewest flash fetches or something
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2022-06-10T11:36:40 < jpa-> the difference in RAM accesses could be even larger, considering -O0 usually writes every temporary result to RAM
2022-06-10T11:37:09 < jpa-> in that case, setting ADC/DMA to give interrupt and use WFI could give smallest noise, avoiding all CPU accesses
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2022-06-10T13:35:14 < karlp> whee, order #16
2022-06-10T13:36:07  * karlp waves to zyp
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2022-06-10T14:22:33 < karlp> fucking, just had to go rummaging to find a usb mini-b cable.
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2022-06-10T17:34:12 < karlp> fucking silabs "enhanced" uart is anything but.
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2022-06-10T19:02:32  * zyp waves back to karlp 
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2022-06-10T19:59:32 < karlp> your invoice has "saleor.payments.stripe" ? is that meant to bea key into a "friendly name"?
2022-06-10T19:59:34 < karlp> (no big deal)
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2022-06-10T20:41:34 < karlp> fricking tiny tented vias can't probe shit.
2022-06-10T20:41:45 < karlp> I think our dmm probes ar etoo fat to poke some of these tiny fucking pads.
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2022-06-10T21:02:28 < catphish> spent the day today heatshrink labeling wiring looms https://imgur.com/a/wTKOxZK
2022-06-10T21:14:59 < BrainDamage> did you buy them preprinted or did you print them yourself somehow?
2022-06-10T21:16:48 < catphish> print them myself with a https://www.dymo.com/label-makers-printers/rhino-label-makers/dymo-rhino-4200-label-maker/SAP_1801611.html
2022-06-10T21:17:04 < catphish> highly recommend
2022-06-10T21:18:04 < catphish> printable heatshrink: https://www.dymo.com/labels-tapes/rhino-industrial-labels/dymo-industrial-heat-shrink-labels/SAP_18051.html
2022-06-10T21:21:51 < Steffanx> What is "STM32"?
2022-06-10T21:25:18 < catphish> there are 2 lines labeled STM32, one is SWD and one is SWCLK, i don't know which is which, they go to the STM32 in the inverter
2022-06-10T21:34:32 < catphish> on an unrelated note, i want to try to identify this plug https://i.imgur.com/uoG6759.jpg
2022-06-10T21:35:16 < catphish> i can use the one i already have, but i like to avoid cutting things when i can :)
2022-06-10T21:42:01 < fenugrec> catphish, if you're lucky, sometimes the crimps have a mfg name punched in the metal
2022-06-10T21:44:07 < catphish> nothing stamped in the plastic sadly, not sure if i can get the crimps out to inspect
2022-06-10T21:44:20 < fenugrec> that may be an irreversible operation, yes
2022-06-10T21:44:36 < catphish> that would rather defeat the point :)
2022-06-10T21:44:47 < catphish> i could just cut off the one i have and splice the wires
2022-06-10T21:44:58 < catphish> but i'm trying not to be needlessly destructive
2022-06-10T21:45:15 < fenugrec> if you're just making one of these.... why not just cut + recrimp something standard/known
2022-06-10T21:45:59 < catphish> there's a button on my car dashboard, it has a short cable with this connector on it
2022-06-10T21:46:14 < catphish> i want to use the button, and i'd prefer not to cut if i can avoid it
2022-06-10T21:46:32 < catphish> ie i'd rather just make a new connector to mate with it
2022-06-10T21:46:46 < catphish> but yes, i can easily cut it off and use something else
2022-06-10T21:46:49 < catphish> if needed
2022-06-10T21:47:08 < fenugrec> bust out molex, TE, JST, aptiv catalogs... 
2022-06-10T21:47:54 < catphish> i've asked the people who own these cars if they know, if not, i'll probably just cut the car side and reuse the plug
2022-06-10T21:47:57 < fenugrec> can probably narrow down the search, knowing the pin pitch
2022-06-10T21:48:11 < fenugrec> yea, you could spend hours looking and never find it
2022-06-10T21:48:15 < catphish> good point, i didnt think to mesure
2022-06-10T21:48:30 < catphish> sometimes people "just know"
2022-06-10T21:48:57 < fenugrec> ofc
2022-06-10T21:51:06 < fenugrec> no fancy heatshrink for me : white E-tape and a pen https://postimg.cc/xkKCBxRv
2022-06-10T21:53:50 < Steffanx> E-tape is that like E-paper?
2022-06-10T21:54:06 < fenugrec> heh
2022-06-10T22:04:58 < catphish> fenugrec: someone on the car owners forum is sending me one of those plugs, no closer to knowing what it is, problem solved :)
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2022-06-10T22:31:46 < kaki> morgon
2022-06-10T22:32:46 < catphish> mornin'
2022-06-10T22:33:03 < catphish> kaki: spent the day today heatshrink labeling wiring looms https://imgur.com/a/wTKOxZK
2022-06-10T22:33:28 < kaki> hmmm
2022-06-10T22:33:36 < kaki> p-touch?
2022-06-10T22:33:56 < kaki> I love labeling
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2022-06-10T22:38:10 < catphish> Dymo Rhino 4200
2022-06-10T22:43:58 < Steffanx> expensive thingy..
2022-06-10T22:45:22 < catphish> i got mine on ebay, but i didn't think it was crazy expensive
2022-06-10T22:46:35 < Steffanx> 120 euro bucks is expensive enough :P
2022-06-10T22:48:09 < catphish> yeah that's about how much i paid including the accessories
2022-06-10T22:48:26 < catphish> seemed worthwhile since i planned to do lots of wiring
2022-06-10T22:49:19 < fenugrec> label printers are possibly even more evil than consumer printers for planned obsolescence
2022-06-10T22:49:44 < fenugrec> with incompatible consumables "just because", every few years when they release a new series
2022-06-10T22:51:59 < Steffanx> my brother p-touch is old but still can get it all
2022-06-10T22:56:12 < kaki> same same
2022-06-10T22:56:23 < kaki> pc9400 or something
2022-06-10T22:56:39 < kaki> I think dyno went for DRM tapes
2022-06-10T22:57:26 < kaki> pc9500
2022-06-10T22:57:42 < qyx> yeah eev dave was ranting about it iirc
2022-06-10T22:58:00 < kaki> spits out old tapes, new tapes, chinese generic tapes
2022-06-10T23:18:00 < catphish> my dy
2022-06-10T23:18:11 < catphish> *my dymo doesn't show any signs of this
2022-06-10T23:19:19 < catphish> i buy chinese compatible cartriges, i don't know how old the platform is, but would assume someone will produce comsumibles for it for a while
2022-06-10T23:30:19 < fenugrec> I think I was thinking of barcode printers. I know I checked a handful of models abundant on ebay and they were all, without exception, discontinued with no oem consumables anymore
2022-06-10T23:34:15 < Steffanx> Ah
2022-06-10T23:34:35 < englishman> i just buy usb ptouches and use their bar code generator. tho one time i got nicelabel and sheets of avery labels, that software lets you connect to a db etc
2022-06-10T23:38:05 < kaki> got brother ql700 from discount for 40eur works in same p-touch software than tape printer
2022-06-10T23:39:55 < kaki> sample sticker rolls have "brother" all across both edges though
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2022-06-10T23:42:53 < kaki> catphish: DRM was introduced maybe this year models iirc
2022-06-10T23:43:13 < qyx> we had CAB EOS in $work[-1]
2022-06-10T23:43:43 < qyx> it supported scripting, thermotransfer, heatshrinks
2022-06-10T23:43:51 < qyx> also generic ones, we used blue
2022-06-10T23:45:47 < kaki> jet printer manufs ran out of drm chips so they instructed customers to select "accept counterfeit ink cardridge" when software prompted after installing genuine ink cardridge
2022-06-10T23:51:28 < kaki> wtf ql700 140eur now :o
2022-06-10T23:51:48 < kaki> it wasway under 100eur recommended price few years back
--- Day changed la kesä 11 2022
2022-06-11T00:28:27 < zyp> kaki, rate my weld: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984808651929837578/IMG_20220610_151724.jpg
2022-06-11T00:29:56 < zyp> karlp, I guess so, I also noticed but I'm too lazy to fix
2022-06-11T00:30:09 < kaki> non-consistent zyp
2022-06-11T00:31:35 < zyp> karlp, at some point I'll hook the shop into my accounting system's API and have the accounting system generate invoices instead
2022-06-11T00:32:51 < karlp> man, just opened my ch582 project again, no idea where I was at trying to get bluetooth up with laks...
2022-06-11T00:35:02 < kaki> zyp: start with thicker materials
2022-06-11T00:35:59 < kaki> that thing is baked and warped just like my thin sheet welds using tig
2022-06-11T00:36:46 < zyp> this is 2mm steel, plenty thick
2022-06-11T00:36:56 < zyp> it's not really much warped
2022-06-11T00:37:06 < zyp> but the edges are not completely straight, I plasma cut them
2022-06-11T00:38:37 < kaki> actually it looks better than my thin sheet weld using tig
2022-06-11T00:38:47 < kaki> and 2mm is thin
2022-06-11T00:39:02 < zyp> thicker than the stuff I did the other day
2022-06-11T00:39:05 < kaki> in larger scale of things
2022-06-11T00:39:11 < zyp> but yeah, I also did some thicker welds, hang on
2022-06-11T00:39:38 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984885358351245312/IMG_20220610_202224.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984890710115369032/IMG_20220610_204339.jpg
2022-06-11T00:40:16 < zyp> and yes, I did clean the zink coating off the weld surfaces before going at it
2022-06-11T00:40:23 < zyp> except for the screw
2022-06-11T00:41:24 < kaki> thats rater good result
2022-06-11T00:41:29 < kaki> rather
2022-06-11T00:43:03 < zyp> need to get a rotary table, doing this sort of shit without means a lot of start and stopping
2022-06-11T00:43:14 < kaki> or awkward positions
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2022-06-11T00:45:23 < zyp> by the way, I have some toys for sale now: https://store.zyp.no/category/orbtrace
2022-06-11T00:45:39 < zyp> that's what karlp was talking about earlier :)
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2022-06-11T00:48:20 < kaki> wow
2022-06-11T00:48:31 < kaki> it's legit
2022-06-11T00:51:48 < kaki> you had some list of buyers in github or so
2022-06-11T00:51:52 < kaki> waiting list
2022-06-11T00:52:27 < zyp> indeed
2022-06-11T00:52:30 < oz4ga> zyp: That "saleor.payments.stripe" it that because you get pay via stripe or is it !""just because" ?
2022-06-11T00:53:09 < oz4ga> as karl sayed not that it matters
2022-06-11T00:53:26 < fenugrec> "ORBTrace is a very fastest CMSIS-DAP interface"  Excellentest description
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2022-06-11T00:54:27 < kaki> it's the very bestest adapter for trace
2022-06-11T00:54:49 < zyp> oz4ga, saleor is the store backend, supports a whole bunch of payment gateways and I'm using the stripe one
2022-06-11T00:54:57 < oz4ga> the fastest and the bestest
2022-06-11T00:55:01 < kaki> zyp: am I on the list?
2022-06-11T00:55:39 < kaki> I remember I was interested about generally of having sort of ECP5 development platform / something to play with
2022-06-11T00:55:54 < zyp> invoice template probably intended to show a friendlier name and then somebody mixed up name and id or something
2022-06-11T00:57:42 < kaki> damn you have the lowest price for 1.27mm 10pin debug cables on the market
2022-06-11T00:58:37 < zyp> yeah, I actually looked around before I set the price on those :)
2022-06-11T01:00:39 < kaki> zyp: what is the chip above ram? ftdi?
2022-06-11T01:01:16 < zyp> no, it's an ULPI PHY, USB is done by the FPGA itself
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2022-06-11T01:05:44 < kaki> it has that premium pcb material
2022-06-11T02:01:37 < bitmask> sooo burnt
2022-06-11T02:07:34 < zyp> bitmask, my welds? it's the zink coating
2022-06-11T02:07:46 < bitmask> hah no, my body
2022-06-11T02:08:10 < zyp> I don't recommend zink coating your body
2022-06-11T02:08:14 < bitmask> hehe
2022-06-11T02:08:47 < bitmask> i laid out without sunblock yesterday while reading and got burnt, so today i felt i needed to burn my back so I at least match :/
2022-06-11T02:09:30 < bitmask> now I just gotta go to the nude beach down the road so I can get rid of these boxer brief lines :)
2022-06-11T02:10:48 < zyp> I hear welding with skin exposed can give you a sunburn, so you could alternatively just weld nude
2022-06-11T02:11:03 < bitmask> that sounds terrifying
2022-06-11T02:16:00 < e-snail> can confirm that you need sunscreen on exposed skin if you're gonna weld all day and don't wanna get burned
2022-06-11T02:16:33  * e-snail used to MIG weld full time
2022-06-11T02:16:40 < bitmask> what gives off UV?
2022-06-11T02:16:50 < zyp> the arc
2022-06-11T02:16:54 < bitmask> oh
2022-06-11T02:19:11 < bitmask> what about it though? is it temperature related, or electrons dropping energy levels? 
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2022-06-11T02:21:08 < e-snail> intense light, same as the sun or a tanning bulb
2022-06-11T02:22:27 < bitmask> yea but light is produced is various ways
2022-06-11T02:22:56 < bitmask> it seems like its free electrons reuniting with the ions in the plasma that release the light
2022-06-11T02:31:41 < emeb_mac> looking at published spectra for various arc lamp sources - seems like it depends a lot on the gases present, but it's not quite as simple as just the emission spectra of the components.
2022-06-11T02:32:14 < emeb_mac> could be a mix of emission spectra and simple blackbody.
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2022-06-11T02:36:46 < fenugrec> can confirm, welding is a great way to get weird sunburn like under the chin
2022-06-11T02:37:24 < zyp> what sort of welding mask do you use to manage that?
2022-06-11T02:38:31 < fenugrec> regular kind, just adjust it like a intelligent human being
2022-06-11T02:40:25 < e-snail> some have a leather flap that hangs down below the chin 
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2022-06-11T14:30:38 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/343006212721213441/985126658694578186/IMG_20220611_122124.jpg what RGB LED type is this (LD1 and LD2)
2022-06-11T15:11:45 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32372891246.html think its this
2022-06-11T15:21:19 < aandrew> rajkosto: those look like plain (dumb) CA RGB LEDs, probably 3mm or 4mm square?
2022-06-11T15:21:56 < aandrew> looks like you might have fucked the pad to the right of the + on LD2 though
2022-06-11T15:22:02 < rajkosto> i have
2022-06-11T15:22:03 < rajkosto> it has corroded
2022-06-11T15:22:04 < aandrew> easily fixed though
2022-06-11T15:22:23 < rajkosto> weirdly, neither LD1 nor LD2 now work even though they hav separate drivers
2022-06-11T15:22:33 < rajkosto> LD2 is obviously gone but LD1 isnt corroded
2022-06-11T15:22:42 < aandrew> scratch off some soldermask on the trace with a sharp blade, solder the LED normally and then use some AWG30 or something to connect the trace to the edge of the LED's pad
2022-06-11T15:23:26 < aandrew> if you put your meter on diode check, + lead on the + pad and walk around the Q21/Q22 pins that connect, does LD1 light up at all?
2022-06-11T15:23:36 < rajkosto> too late now, all reassembled
2022-06-11T15:24:22 < rajkosto> that test never really lit up LEDs for me tho
2022-06-11T15:25:24 < qyx> for me it does
2022-06-11T15:25:31 < qyx> except blue and white
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2022-06-11T18:37:26 < Steffanx> Hi shrimpy how's the day?
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2022-06-11T19:57:32 < Steffanx> Yeah that was for you bitmask 
2022-06-11T19:57:45 < Steffanx> Or are you no longer red like a shrimp? 😋
2022-06-11T19:58:22 < bitmask> oh I am very red
2022-06-11T19:58:25 < bitmask> hows it going?
2022-06-11T19:58:48 < bitmask> the worst is behind my knees. moving my legs at all hurts
2022-06-11T19:59:27 < bitmask> and who thinks of shrimp when thinking of red stuff :P a lobster makes more sense :)
2022-06-11T20:02:46 < Steffanx> Hah it's a dutch expression and we're more into shrimps. That's probably why
2022-06-11T20:04:13 < bitmask> i see
2022-06-11T20:04:38 < bitmask> shrimp isnt even red until you cook it :/
2022-06-11T20:07:33 < BrainDamage> we either say bell pepper or lobster
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2022-06-12T01:04:51 < karlp> lobster or "british tourist" in .au :)
2022-06-12T01:06:01 < Steffanx> Hah
2022-06-12T01:07:58 < Steffanx> Apparently we use both, and "lobster" is more common according to Google. But for some reason I mostly hear "shrimp"
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2022-06-12T01:52:51 < karlp> heh, "ok, I wonder what this ble stack init is still missing from my porting..."
2022-06-12T01:52:54 < karlp> / FIXME - still need this? HAL_TimeInit();  // I may need this.
2022-06-12T01:52:58 < karlp> might be that....
2022-06-12T01:53:28 < karlp> thank you past me for at least flaggin that you hadn't done that yet :)
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2022-06-12T02:25:04 < karlp> I love seeing this sort of shit in macros.. https://github.com/openwch/ch583/blob/main/EVT/EXAM/SRC/StdPeriphDriver/inc/CH58x_clk.h#L123-L126
2022-06-12T02:27:06 < karlp> though I kinda like that they literally poll the 32k clock signal, which has a pin going to a register bit, so they know when to turn things on....
2022-06-12T02:43:37 < karlp> lol, it works.
2022-06-12T02:43:41 < karlp> schweeet.
2022-06-12T02:57:24 < zyp> nice
2022-06-12T02:59:08 < karlp> yeah, now can get on to doin gactualy things with it :)
2022-06-12T02:59:57 < zyp> I've also got a ch582 board now, so I can even test it when I find time :)
2022-06-12T02:59:59 < karlp> pretty rough straight port right now though.
2022-06-12T03:00:17 < karlp> I actually just sent off a ch582F pcb to get made even...
2022-06-12T03:00:29 < karlp> so yeah, nice to know that I'll be able to use it :)
2022-06-12T03:00:56 < karlp> you can probably even use that board... plugs into the P1 HAN port on your meter, lets you do... whatever to bluetooth frrom there.
2022-06-12T03:01:08 < karlp> planning on rippinng of a chunk of esphome or similar...
2022-06-12T03:01:19 < karlp> anyway..
2022-06-12T03:01:53 < karlp> now comes that point in the night of, "yes! things are great! I want to keep diong this!" vs "the relentless march of children and obligations will resume in less than 8 hours...."
2022-06-12T03:02:21 < zyp> haha, yeah
2022-06-12T03:02:34 < zyp> it's 2am here now, I'm already up way late
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2022-06-12T15:53:58 < mawk> I almost called 112 yesterday
2022-06-12T15:54:07 < mawk> but I didn't and I'm still alive
2022-06-12T15:54:34 < mawk> which proves I'm immortal
2022-06-12T15:55:12 < Xogium> mawk: what happened ?
2022-06-12T15:55:23 < mawk> I took an opiate reversal agent by mistake
2022-06-12T15:55:34 < mawk> which instantly prevented any activity at my endorphin receptors
2022-06-12T15:55:51 < mawk> and then I experienced the second worst day of my life
2022-06-12T15:56:11 < mawk> probably a 40 on the COWS scale
2022-06-12T15:56:54 < Xogium> oww
2022-06-12T15:56:54 < mawk> which isn't related to bovine mammals
2022-06-12T15:57:19 < mawk> you can't die from it, but at the peak I wished I was dead
2022-06-12T15:57:21 < Xogium> that's mean
2022-06-12T15:57:44 < mawk> then I found a suspicious paper with only 8 citations which said that the way to fix this is just to take more of it bro
2022-06-12T15:57:48 < mawk> so I did, and it kinda worked 
2022-06-12T15:58:19 < mawk> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34173647/
2022-06-12T15:58:34 < mawk> thanks Thomas H N Quattlebaum
2022-06-12T15:59:57 < Xogium> huh that's kinda scary
2022-06-12T16:00:04 < Xogium> not too sure I'd have tempted fate
2022-06-12T16:00:18 < mawk> I had trust in thomas
2022-06-12T16:00:23 < mawk> and the pharmacology made sense
2022-06-12T16:00:25 < mawk> kinda
2022-06-12T16:00:55 < mawk> the μ-opiate receptor is like a lock, and methadone (what I take normally) is like a good key, it fits snuggly into the lock
2022-06-12T16:01:10 < mawk> then comes buprenorphine (what I took) which is kinda a shitty key that doesn't fit halfway
2022-06-12T16:01:23 < mawk> and when a shitty key encounters a good key, the lock stays closed
2022-06-12T16:01:33 < mawk> and not even endogenous endorphins can open it
2022-06-12T16:02:02 < mawk> and mister thomas said that by flooding the synaptic cleft with a lot of shitty keys the lock will eventually open
2022-06-12T16:02:25 < mawk> and it did, kinda
2022-06-12T16:02:35 < mawk> I still feel like shit right now, it's like mega depression 
2022-06-12T16:02:40 < mawk> I can barely move
2022-06-12T16:03:06 < mawk> usually withdrawal comes with fun side effects like elevated libido but not even here
2022-06-12T16:03:19 < fenugrec> ##erowid32
2022-06-12T16:03:24 < mawk> lol
2022-06-12T16:03:31 < Xogium> my experience with any withdrawl is, it a bitch
2022-06-12T16:03:32 < Xogium> :p
2022-06-12T16:03:42 < mawk> from what?
2022-06-12T16:03:56 < Xogium> most opiates
2022-06-12T16:04:07 < Xogium> they gave me a whole bunch with the cancer
2022-06-12T16:04:11 < mawk> ah, but personal experience?
2022-06-12T16:04:12 < mawk> ah right
2022-06-12T16:04:18 < mawk> you got sweet sweet fentanyl?
2022-06-12T16:04:33 < mawk> I don't like it a lot, it makes paradoxical insomnia
2022-06-12T16:05:03 < Xogium> yea, I believe so. I'm not 100% sure of all that I got honestly. I didn't really care I just wanted to be able to swallow fine
2022-06-12T16:05:15 < mawk> french brand is duragesic
2022-06-12T16:05:19 < mawk> a transdermal patch
2022-06-12T16:05:22 < Xogium> which I couldn't cause I had radiation burns all the way down my throat. Even drinking water hurt
2022-06-12T16:05:37 < mawk> I used to cut it into 64×64 little squares and smoke them in a bong
2022-06-12T16:05:47 < mawk> ah that sounds painful
2022-06-12T16:05:48 < aandrew> my good friend struggled his whole life with opiates
2022-06-12T16:05:51 < mawk> is it better today?
2022-06-12T16:06:00 < Xogium> not quite
2022-06-12T16:06:16 < mawk> in september it will be officially 50% of my life under opiates
2022-06-12T16:06:36 < Xogium> so they put a tube all the way from my nose to my stomach. And I'm getting sick of vanilla
2022-06-12T16:06:46 < BrainDamage> time to upgrade to carfentanyl
2022-06-12T16:06:53 < aandrew> he was freebasing codeine at one point, all is glassware was covered with crust that he'd scrape off after evaporating whatever he was using to split out the codeine
2022-06-12T16:06:56 < mawk> kolokol-1
2022-06-12T16:07:12 < mawk> to smoke it aandrew ?
2022-06-12T16:07:16 < mawk> or to make something else
2022-06-12T16:07:34 < mawk> I've never heard of smoked codeine
2022-06-12T16:07:41 < mawk> it needs hepatic first pass to be active
2022-06-12T16:07:48 < aandrew> I'm not sure wtf he was all doing with it but he did a lot of different things different ways. I tended to not ask but he had several different ways to get the codeine he wanted
2022-06-12T16:07:48 < mawk> and metabolized to some morphinate
2022-06-12T16:07:55 < Xogium> first thing they gave me is a mouthwash specially designed to be swallowed up, with a good dose of morphine. That did not even work
2022-06-12T16:08:22 < mawk> yeah well opiates are not topical anesthesics, it's just feel good candy
2022-06-12T16:08:28 < aandrew> buying big bottles of AC&Cs then running them through a process to separate the caffeine/tylenol from the codeine
2022-06-12T16:08:36 < mawk> ah nice aandrew 
2022-06-12T16:08:40 < mawk> I did that with just water
2022-06-12T16:08:48 < mawk> acetaminophen is insoluble in cold water
2022-06-12T16:08:51 < mawk> but codeine is
2022-06-12T16:08:54 < aandrew> sometimes his house looked more like a full drug lab than a place to live
2022-06-12T16:09:00 < mawk> drinking the mixture is abominable though 
2022-06-12T16:09:20 < aandrew> yeah I can't remember if he wanted me to get the tylenol or aspirin variant of AC&Cs for him, one worked way better than the other
2022-06-12T16:09:28 < Xogium> so I kinda gave up on that one and just get fed with that tube they put up. Its a good thing I got someone the prepare the siringe full of stuff I need to take
2022-06-12T16:09:51 < aandrew> although AC&Cs are awesome generic pills for pain, not many people know about 'em
2022-06-12T16:09:51 < mawk> sometimes I didn't even mind taking the huge acetaminophen dose, up to 8g/day
2022-06-12T16:10:07 < mawk> precisely calculated with respect to my weight so that I didn't die
2022-06-12T16:10:07 < Xogium> take some water mixed in with some medication to avoid stomach acid burns, wait half an hour, then get the shot of milk full of vitamins and all that
2022-06-12T16:10:16 < aandrew> he was eventually on methadone and then one other one, starts with a b I think
2022-06-12T16:10:33 < mawk> buprenorphine 
2022-06-12T16:10:40 < aandrew> sounds right
2022-06-12T16:10:41 < mawk> the one that caused my disaster of yesterday 
2022-06-12T16:10:44 < mawk> fuck buprenorphine 
2022-06-12T16:10:52 < mawk> do you taste it still Xogium ?
2022-06-12T16:10:53 < BrainDamage> irc_irc.libera.chat_mawk: iirc it has vasoconstricting properties
2022-06-12T16:11:00 < Xogium> mawk: yeah
2022-06-12T16:11:02 < aandrew> he seemed to want that over methadone, or maybe I'm confused
2022-06-12T16:11:05 < Xogium> sort of
2022-06-12T16:11:08 < BrainDamage> so might reduce swelling
2022-06-12T16:11:15 < Xogium> why I said I was getting real annoyed at the taste of vanilla
2022-06-12T16:11:18 < mawk> yeah it's easier to abuse aandrew 
2022-06-12T16:11:22 < mawk> you can shoot it up and snort it
2022-06-12T16:11:31 < mawk> but not the variety that contains naloxone, Suboxone™
2022-06-12T16:11:48 < aandrew> he wasn't ever much of a needle guy
2022-06-12T16:11:48 < mawk> ah yeah BrainDamage 
2022-06-12T16:12:04 < aandrew> I don't think he injected much at all ever
2022-06-12T16:12:14 < mawk> me neither, I never injected anything myself
2022-06-12T16:12:17 < mawk> only doctors did
2022-06-12T16:12:19 < Xogium> supposed to get 3 chemo treatments, but looks like more are coming up cause the chemo they tried did nothing yet
2022-06-12T16:12:33 < mawk> and the radiation worked Xogium?
2022-06-12T16:12:49 < Xogium> yeah, a bit. It slowed it down
2022-06-12T16:12:57 < mawk> nice
2022-06-12T16:13:03 < mawk> so you're getting all that in France?
2022-06-12T16:13:11 < mawk> how do you like our hospitals 
2022-06-12T16:13:25 < Xogium> now if only it had worked without burning all my throat to the point I lose skin from inside it like a giant sunburn
2022-06-12T16:13:34 < mawk> will it heal?
2022-06-12T16:13:59 < mawk> chemo precipitated my grandfather's demise, he would've been better without it
2022-06-12T16:14:03 < Xogium> it should, but it won't heal until radiations are stopped
2022-06-12T16:14:28 < Xogium> as for the hospital, honestly, it's not that bad. I kinda expected worse. I'm used to worse, actually hehe canadian healtcare sucks
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2022-06-12T16:15:33 < mawk> France's healthcare used to be good
2022-06-12T16:15:39 < Xogium> they want to avoid the cancer doing a er.. I guess you could call it lightning strike of sort
2022-06-12T16:15:40 < mawk> but then the magic money faucet dried up
2022-06-12T16:15:45 < mawk> and hospitals became for profit
2022-06-12T16:15:57 < mawk> every act, operation is counted and billed to social security
2022-06-12T16:16:09 < Xogium> the idea is that since I'm young the cells divide rather fast, and even faster than normal of course for a cancer
2022-06-12T16:16:15 < BrainDamage> so it's still a tumor, not cancer?
2022-06-12T16:16:37 < BrainDamage> or did it start spreading?
2022-06-12T16:16:41 < aandrew> Xogium: I understand that's a general rule for cancers with young people, a lot more active growth 
2022-06-12T16:16:56 < mawk> it can be a cancer without spreading yet BrainDamage 
2022-06-12T16:16:59 < Xogium> BrainDamage: oh its a cancer, it just hasn't decided on colony yet
2022-06-12T16:17:22 < mawk> as long as it mobilizes new veins and stuff
2022-06-12T16:17:30 < mawk> and grows quickly 
2022-06-12T16:18:02 < Xogium> the problem is its kind of putting pressure against arteries in my neck now
2022-06-12T16:18:16 < mawk> will they place a shunt then?
2022-06-12T16:18:22 < mawk> why is surgery not possible?
2022-06-12T16:18:34 < BrainDamage> is this the problem that made them think you had meniere disease?
2022-06-12T16:18:41 < Xogium> because it is directly growing against those arteries
2022-06-12T16:18:56 < mawk> you just need a delicate surgeon that doesn't shake
2022-06-12T16:19:15 < mawk> a robot surgeon 
2022-06-12T16:19:33 < Xogium> BrainDamage: nah its 2 separate things. I'm really getting a bad genetic or whatever lottery hah
2022-06-12T16:20:13 < Xogium> what scares me kinda is, if it grows right against those arteries then that must mean it got a nice blood supply going for itself
2022-06-12T16:20:16 < BrainDamage> ouch
2022-06-12T16:21:01 < Xogium> the crazy thing is I don't really feel it at all
2022-06-12T16:21:51 < Xogium> other than the blood flow being cut in half at that place, there's not really much side effects yet. Chemo and radiations did more to hurt me than the cancer itself did
2022-06-12T16:21:52 < mawk> if cancer started producing nociceptors that would be kind of cruel
2022-06-12T16:22:57 < Xogium> it also completely massacred my voice, but that's to be expected
2022-06-12T16:23:27 < Xogium> I can only whisper and if I keep it up for a while I lose all my voice
2022-06-12T16:23:33 < mawk> it's the artery going to the brain then
2022-06-12T16:23:49 < Xogium> yeah one of them
2022-06-12T16:27:13 < Xogium> honestly I'm tired of getting crap all my life heh
2022-06-12T16:27:29 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-12T16:27:34 < mawk> you seem resilient enough 
2022-06-12T16:27:51 < mawk> and you're not in palliative care, so they think it's treatable
2022-06-12T16:27:57 < Xogium> yeah
2022-06-12T16:28:30 < Xogium> I suppose I'll have to see how things go
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2022-06-12T16:29:04 < mawk> if things go wrong take 30 revolving credits and go make a heroin holiday in a paradise island
2022-06-12T16:29:12 < Xogium> I'm just drained
2022-06-12T16:29:19 < Xogium> hehehe
2022-06-12T16:29:23 < Xogium> you coming ?
2022-06-12T16:29:24 < Xogium> :p
2022-06-12T16:29:35 < mawk> lol
2022-06-12T16:29:37 < BrainDamage> chemotherapy is poison that targets cells that are duplicating
2022-06-12T16:29:57 < BrainDamage> modern chemotherapy targets cancer cells a bit better than the rest, but it's still poison
2022-06-12T16:30:09 < Xogium> BrainDamage: aye, it is. Problem is, its poison as you said
2022-06-12T16:30:13 < BrainDamage> that's why you feel like shit
2022-06-12T16:31:13 < Xogium> I spend like 3 quarter of my days sleeping
2022-06-12T16:32:33 < BrainDamage> probably for the better, better sleeping than being in pain
2022-06-12T16:32:42 < Xogium> oh yes definitely
2022-06-12T16:32:46 < BrainDamage> assuming it's temporary
2022-06-12T16:33:21 < Xogium> I just woke up and waiting still 15 minutes before one of my 3 daily doses of this super concentrated milk
2022-06-12T16:35:37 < Xogium> they also gave some kind of disloving pill to avoid stomach acid burning my throat, but the damned thing won't freaking melt
2022-06-12T16:35:45 < Xogium> *disolving
2022-06-12T16:36:48 < Xogium> so I just take the liquid one instead. Less efficient but better than nothing
2022-06-12T16:39:10 < Xogium> anyway, enough of me making the mood of the whole channel depressing ;p
2022-06-12T16:40:03 < Xogium> what you guys are doing today ?
2022-06-12T16:44:37 < mawk> trying not to feel like shit
2022-06-12T16:44:44 < mawk> I have a master plan 
2022-06-12T16:45:05 < mawk> according to my calculations the shitty buprenorphine should stop hogging my receptors right about now
2022-06-12T16:45:19 < mawk> that means I can take a real full agonist opiate to feel good again
2022-06-12T16:45:30 < mawk> but if I'm wrong I will feel extremely bad like yesterday 
2022-06-12T16:45:38 < mawk> I'll know in 10 minutes I guess 
2022-06-12T16:47:50 < mawk> my nose has limited capacity to hold powder
2022-06-12T16:47:58 < mawk> it's not a good nose
2022-06-12T16:48:31 < Xogium> I hope it goes fine :/
2022-06-12T16:49:38 < mawk> me too
2022-06-12T16:49:49 < mawk> I'll walk to the hospital if I it happens again 
2022-06-12T16:50:03 < mawk> the card I use to make lines is my hospital patient pass lol
2022-06-12T16:50:15 < Xogium> hahaha
2022-06-12T16:51:51 < mawk> last week I called the drug counselor like 30 times but she never picked up
2022-06-12T16:51:56 < mawk> therefore it's 100% her fault 
2022-06-12T16:52:59 < mawk> last time we talked she told me about her crypto investments 
2022-06-12T16:53:15 < mawk> I didn't have the heart to tell her she bought shitcoins
2022-06-12T16:55:01 < mawk> why is this in my google news feed: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-to-grow-opium-poppies-lqw3qt57m
2022-06-12T16:55:29 < mawk> maybe they think I like gardening 
2022-06-12T16:55:34 < Xogium> :D
2022-06-12T17:01:03 < aandrew> mawk: that's one of the things my friend was doing too, growing them and then "bleeding" them 
2022-06-12T17:01:19 < mawk> nice
2022-06-12T17:01:59 < mawk> my crypto-gf will ask questions if she sees me planting papaver somniferum though 
2022-06-12T17:02:52 < BrainDamage> huh, they look better than I thought
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2022-06-12T17:07:40 < aandrew> well not nice really. he died last year and it kills me
2022-06-12T17:08:41 < mawk> ah I didn't know that, sorry
2022-06-12T17:09:08 < Xogium> huh, I love device trees
2022-06-12T17:09:20 < mawk> I've got a friend that stopped all substance abuse and found Christ, became a hardcore christian
2022-06-12T17:09:23 < aandrew> Xogium: I think you're the first person to every say such a thing
2022-06-12T17:09:26 < mawk> then he oded and died a few weeks after
2022-06-12T17:09:30 < mawk> I like device trees too
2022-06-12T17:09:43 < aandrew> Xogium: I get what DT is trying to achieve, but holy fuckballs it's just not straightforward at all
2022-06-12T17:10:05 < mawk> some of the syntax might be a little obscure indeed
2022-06-12T17:10:05 < Xogium> I added a gpio-keys node and added buttons inside. One of them just send linux keycode 205 which is suspend and fun stuff, systemd notices it, or rather logind does, and tada, suspend to ram if I press on it
2022-06-12T17:10:06 < aandrew> and it seems impossible to know the right cell names and formats, even after reading the driver code that is using it
2022-06-12T17:10:29 < aandrew> gonna remember both of your names the next time I have dt issues :-)
2022-06-12T17:10:59 < mawk> écoute ça Xogium https://youtu.be/Sk85Ho_Xntg
2022-06-12T17:11:09 < mawk> 3 Nuits Par Semaine (GORSKI Electro-House Remix) - Indochine
2022-06-12T17:11:24 < mawk> ils écoutent Indochine au kébek?
2022-06-12T17:11:33 < aandrew> anyway
2022-06-12T17:11:41 < mawk> ou bien c'est trop frenchie
2022-06-12T17:11:53 < aandrew> should probably go get some groceries and do some work. just not feeling it at all today
2022-06-12T17:12:10 < mawk> don't force yourself 
2022-06-12T17:12:18 < aandrew> kind of have to
2022-06-12T17:12:36 < Xogium> mawk: aucune idée. Je pense qu'on connait un peu mais pas tant que ça
2022-06-12T17:12:45 < aandrew> four simultaneous fulltime contracts means gotta work, got a house full of people to support 
2022-06-12T17:14:21 < Xogium> mawk: je conais le groupe parce que j'ai un ami fan. a se jeter sur les concerts partout à chaque fois qu'il y en a un :p
2022-06-12T17:15:20 < mawk> mais là c'est un remix techno que j'ai link
2022-06-12T17:15:22 < mawk> bien entendu
2022-06-12T17:15:27 < Xogium> yup
2022-06-12T17:15:35 < Xogium> pas si mal comme ça je trouve
2022-06-12T17:16:34 < Steffanx> How you take this shit by accident mawk?
2022-06-12T17:16:59 < Steffanx> I've never taken drugs by accident
2022-06-12T17:17:33 < Xogium> Steffanx: try living in a country where they don't bother printing braille labels for meds and being blind. It works awesome
2022-06-12T17:17:41 < Xogium> ^^
2022-06-12T17:17:46 < Xogium> thanks, canada
2022-06-12T17:17:58 < Steffanx> I wonder if I ever eaten anything by accident. Except maybe flies on my bicycle trip, not sure if that counts as "by accident" 
2022-06-12T17:18:15 < Steffanx> But mawk's eyes work I think? 
2022-06-12T17:18:19 < Xogium> hehe yeah
2022-06-12T17:18:27 < Xogium> but for me that's what happened once
2022-06-12T17:18:38 < Steffanx> Sometimes if wonder if his brain works though 
2022-06-12T17:18:40 < Xogium> wasn't very fun, can say
2022-06-12T17:18:47 < mawk> Steffanx it's a substance that is both an opiate and an opiate reversal agent, depending on the context 
2022-06-12T17:19:00 < mawk> since my neurons still had methadone in them that made the substance act as a reversal agent
2022-06-12T17:19:07 < mawk> and that causes precipitated withdrawals 
2022-06-12T17:19:10 < mawk> >Whereas patients enduring typical withdrawals can generally get through it at home, those enduring precipitated withdrawal are often hospitalized. Acute dehydration often sets in and a doctor must administer fluids.  
2022-06-12T17:19:10 < mawk> Enduring precipitated withdrawal is a horrible experience. 
2022-06-12T17:19:12 < Steffanx> And why you tool this shit?
2022-06-12T17:19:19 < mawk> to try it
2022-06-12T17:19:24 < mawk> but I timed it wrong 
2022-06-12T17:19:34 < mawk> I still had methadone in my system and I thought I didn't 
2022-06-12T17:19:48 < Steffanx> Lol. 
2022-06-12T17:19:55 < Steffanx> More like: LOL
2022-06-12T17:20:05 < mawk> buprenorphine is a partial agonist, and in the presence of another classical opiate it becomes a competitive antagonist
2022-06-12T17:20:16 < mawk> meaning it knocks out the methadone and prevents the receptor from being activated at all
2022-06-12T17:20:29 < mawk> and no pain-diminution receptor available means extreme pain
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2022-06-12T17:22:29 < Xogium> god damn it why is my app always losing its dbus
2022-06-12T17:22:49 < mawk> listen to the indochine remix Steffanx 
2022-06-12T17:22:51 < mawk> you will like it
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2022-06-12T17:43:15 < Xogium> sort of wished linux for arm had proper code to toggle brightness of backlight
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2022-06-12T19:00:39 < mawk> joli garçon 
2022-06-12T19:00:50 < mawk> aime moi
2022-06-12T19:00:55 < mawk> ne dis pas au revoir
2022-06-12T19:00:59 < Xogium> uh ?
2022-06-12T19:01:12 < mawk> tu connais pas????
2022-06-12T19:01:21 < BrainDamage> he wants to get fucked by a little boy
2022-06-12T19:01:25 < Xogium> j'ai loupé un épisode haha
2022-06-12T19:01:35 < Xogium> BrainDamage: lol
2022-06-12T19:01:48 < mawk> https://youtu.be/pTW7byH2ij0
2022-06-12T19:02:23 < mawk> garçon is not necessarily an ephèbe in the greek sense
2022-06-12T19:02:38 < mawk> it can also be like a 20ish boy
2022-06-12T19:03:36 < Xogium> didn't know you swung that way ;p
2022-06-12T19:03:48 < mawk> I like girls too don't worry
2022-06-12T19:04:01 < Xogium> hehe I'm not criticising
2022-06-12T19:05:52 < mawk> I found a methadone syrup bottle in my bag, I was happy for a second
2022-06-12T19:05:56 < mawk> but it's already empty
2022-06-12T19:06:10 < Xogium> ow that's not nice
2022-06-12T19:06:33 < mawk> I bought it in Paris, Gare du Nord
2022-06-12T19:06:55 < mawk> hang out 10 minutes in front of the Gaïa safe shooting room and an arab guy will ask you what you want to buy
2022-06-12T19:06:57 < mawk> very easy
2022-06-12T19:07:03 < mawk> do you live in Paris?
2022-06-12T19:07:05 < Xogium> hah typical
2022-06-12T19:07:31 < mawk> the cops got me one time, they rackeeted the dealer's stash and let us go
2022-06-12T19:07:35 < mawk> no report, nothing 
2022-06-12T19:08:01 < Xogium> damn
2022-06-12T19:08:14 < mawk> but the dealer hid some in his trousers so as soon as the cop was gone we went on with the transaction 
2022-06-12T19:08:21 < Xogium> rofl
2022-06-12T19:08:32 < mawk> the cop was dressed like suburban scum, with a hoodie
2022-06-12T19:08:40 < mawk> and trash talking the dealer
2022-06-12T19:08:49 < mawk> I'm not even sure it was a real cop lol
2022-06-12T19:08:59 < Xogium> good point
2022-06-12T19:09:31 < mawk> you live in the parisian region?
2022-06-12T19:09:37 < Xogium> no, britany
2022-06-12T19:09:41 < mawk> the only place worth being in France 
2022-06-12T19:09:43 < mawk> oh no
2022-06-12T19:09:46 < mawk> rain land
2022-06-12T19:09:47 < Xogium> côte d'armor
2022-06-12T19:09:50 < mawk> even worse than Steffanx land
2022-06-12T19:09:57 < Xogium> lol
2022-06-12T19:10:19 < Xogium> funny you say that, its sunny today
2022-06-12T19:10:48 < mawk> here too
2022-06-12T19:11:38 < Xogium> sun is good
2022-06-12T19:11:44 < mawk> no
2022-06-12T19:11:46 < mawk> sun is bad
2022-06-12T19:11:58 < Xogium> naaaah sun with moderation is good
2022-06-12T19:12:00 < mawk> I moved to Netherlands to escape the parisian summer heat
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2022-06-12T19:12:18 < mawk> and to escape a few judicial debt but weather is more important 
2022-06-12T19:12:47 < Xogium> :D
2022-06-12T19:12:59 < Steffanx> It's too warm in dutchland 
2022-06-12T19:13:04 < Xogium> we got the sea, so we don't have heat as bad as some place in france
2022-06-12T19:13:25 < mawk> here it's built on land reclaimed to the sea
2022-06-12T19:13:29 < mawk> the coast anyway 
2022-06-12T19:14:46 < Steffanx> Coming Friday it might get 30°C mawk 
2022-06-12T19:15:08 < mawk> oh no
2022-06-12T19:15:18 < mawk> I'm going back to frankrijk
2022-06-12T19:15:32 < BrainDamage> the humidity is what makes any temp uncomfortable
2022-06-12T19:15:45 < Xogium> I remember back in 2018 there was a heat wave in france and we had like 25C when the rest of france had over 40 somehow
2022-06-12T19:15:53 < mawk> determining the wet bulb temperature 
2022-06-12T19:16:25 < BrainDamage> even comfortable temps are less comfortable with high humidity
2022-06-12T19:16:31 < BrainDamage> and viceversa
2022-06-12T19:16:32 < Xogium> indeed
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2022-06-12T19:16:55 < Xogium> I remember the canadian winter... I wish I didn't
2022-06-12T19:17:06 < Xogium> -25 with 90% humidity, aaargh
2022-06-12T19:17:17 < mawk> in some places of the world the wet bulb temperature will routinely exceed 37°C thanks to climate change
2022-06-12T19:17:25 < mawk> then humans cannot live there anymore, without AC
2022-06-12T19:17:40 < Xogium> dead valley in the US
2022-06-12T19:17:44 < mawk> because even sweating will not bring the body temp under 37°C
2022-06-12T19:17:46 < Xogium> now that's hot
2022-06-12T19:21:21 < BrainDamage> you can use fans to accelerate evaporation and get it lower equivalent wet bulb temp
2022-06-12T19:22:55 < mawk> I made a grave mistake on reddit
2022-06-12T19:23:06 < mawk> I disabled NSFW blurring and I subscribed to r/medical
2022-06-12T19:23:28 < mawk> I didn't want to see these things 
2022-06-12T19:24:23 < mawk> if you can sweat fast enough BrainDamage 
2022-06-12T19:24:33 < mawk> or maybe you can stay drenched all day
2022-06-12T19:24:44 < mawk> from a water bottle
2022-06-12T19:25:00 < mawk> opiates make me not sweat, I would definitely die there 
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2022-06-12T19:34:36 < mawk> Xogium https://youtu.be/qrDH0RmWi5A
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2022-06-12T20:10:49 < karlp> poppies are beautiful flowers, I've gotta go and grab some of our neighbours later in the autumn, try and get some in our garden too.
2022-06-12T20:11:03 < karlp> we have a few iceland poppies, which are cute, but I love the big red ones.
2022-06-12T20:11:05 < aandrew> wtf
2022-06-12T20:11:17 < aandrew> wife asks me out of the blue if i want to move to France for a year so the kids learn French
2022-06-12T20:11:27 < Steffanx> lol
2022-06-12T20:11:28 < karlp> oh canadia?
2022-06-12T20:11:30 < mawk> the red one is called coquelicot in french
2022-06-12T20:11:41 < karlp> well, there's quite a few red ones really.
2022-06-12T20:11:41 < mawk> one year isn't enough
2022-06-12T20:11:46 < mawk> make it two or three
2022-06-12T20:11:52 < karlp> there's classic flanders poppy, then some of the bigger ones.
2022-06-12T20:12:01 < mawk> but he can also go to a french highschool near your place aandrew 
2022-06-12T20:12:02 < karlp> then some beatiful himalayan blue
2022-06-12T20:12:06 < mawk> although you need to be rich 
2022-06-12T20:17:49 < aandrew> she gets this way sometimes
2022-06-12T20:17:57 < aandrew> that's how we ended up in BC for most of a year. hated every second of it
2022-06-12T20:18:59 < fenugrec> how about QC
2022-06-12T20:19:20 < fenugrec> move in with englishman
2022-06-12T20:20:23 < englishman> last thing i need is 6 more of his adult rugrats asking for money
2022-06-12T20:20:50 < fenugrec> hahaha
2022-06-12T20:32:15 < jpa-> why move to france and learn french when you can move to finland and learn the silence
2022-06-12T20:33:49 < mawk> lol
2022-06-12T20:51:45 < aandrew> jpa-: lol I love that
2022-06-12T20:51:47 < aandrew> gonna pitch that instead
2022-06-12T20:52:12 < mawk> some regions of France are notoriously taiseuses
2022-06-12T20:53:33 -!- polprog [~ath0@user/polprog] has quit [Quit: version swap]
2022-06-12T20:53:47 < aandrew> notoriously what?
2022-06-12T20:54:38 -!- polprog [~ath0@user/polprog] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-12T20:55:01 < mawk> it's a french word for "someone that shuts up"
2022-06-12T20:55:21 < mawk> masculine taiseux, feminine taiseuse(s)
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2022-06-12T21:01:02 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas fram
2022-06-12T21:01:12 < Steffanx> framboos, monsieur mawk
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2022-06-12T21:01:38 < mawk> aardbeij >> framboos
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2022-06-12T21:03:18 < Steffanx> aardbei.
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2022-06-12T21:11:13 < mawk> aaaaaaardbei
2022-06-12T21:11:28 < mawk> fraise*
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2022-06-12T22:26:12  * GenTooMan jokes "anyone see any STM32s in the wild?" 
2022-06-12T22:37:54 < englishman> probably easier to move to quebec aandrew and cheaper too. And you will learn real french
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--- Day changed ma kesä 13 2022
2022-06-13T00:16:36 < mawk> on r/suboxone on reddit they say that when buprenorphine doesn't cause precipitated withdrawals it's because junky jesus is protecting them
2022-06-13T00:16:42 < mawk> I'd like to meet this prophet
2022-06-13T00:21:15 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFv97ICWP0A
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2022-06-13T00:29:48 < mawk> https://youtu.be/vS4wa4qzpCc
2022-06-13T00:29:52 < mawk> boem boem boem
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2022-06-13T02:02:50 < GenTooMan> most alleged prophets these days are more profits or people who just want reality to bend their way 
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2022-06-13T14:12:32 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2022-06-13T14:12:33 < mawk> >Brand bij aanmaakblokjesfabriek in Oisterwijk
2022-06-13T14:12:33 < mawk> lol
2022-06-13T14:16:51 < tct> how are your bitcoins?
2022-06-13T14:24:52 < mawk> I never hold bitcoins for very long tct 
2022-06-13T14:25:04 < mawk> you want to see my tx history?
2022-06-13T14:25:23 < tct> no
2022-06-13T14:25:35 < mawk> https://serveur.io/ksnip_20220613-132513.png
2022-06-13T14:25:36 < mawk> too late
2022-06-13T14:26:24 < tct> what's your wallet ID?
2022-06-13T14:26:31 < mawk> default_wallet
2022-06-13T14:26:38 < mawk> I have 7.62€ on it
2022-06-13T14:26:42 < tct> :D
2022-06-13T14:26:58 < mawk> and 15€ in the monero wallet
2022-06-13T14:27:07 < mawk> oh no more like 150€ actually
2022-06-13T14:27:16 < mawk> I should withdraw it monero is going down
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2022-06-13T14:57:13 < karlp> bleh, I don't appear to have _any_ of my logic analysers at work.
2022-06-13T14:57:17 < karlp> three of them at home.
2022-06-13T15:05:40 < Steffanx> Home cant be far away though .
2022-06-13T15:09:15 < karlp> nah, but I'll just do something else in the meantime.
2022-06-13T15:09:27 < karlp> I'll just trust that silabs docs are telling the truth right now :)
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2022-06-13T15:24:30 < zyp> I tend to have the opposite problem, I get fancy tools for myself and then I run into a problem at work that they'd be useful for, so I bring them to the office and then they get left there
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2022-06-13T15:46:35 < karlp> I've got a bit of that too :)
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2022-06-13T19:14:01 < tct> I´m looking for something like NRF24L01 modules but then in a way that I can control more than 6 nodes. I´m looking for a solution where I can have a star network with up to 100 nodes. What would you guys suggest?
2022-06-13T19:14:15 < tct> range wise ~100 meters should be fine, more would be neat.
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2022-06-13T19:17:57 < karlp> btle coded phy?
2022-06-13T19:18:04 < Steffanx> Don't let the nrf do the addressing and use your own addressing..
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2022-06-13T19:18:51 < karlp> 100m indoors or out in the fields?
2022-06-13T19:18:56 < tct> Steffanx, so I can use the regular off-the-shelve NRF24L01+ modules but not use the ShockBurst protocol? I´d need to implement quite a lot of stuff then because ShockBurst also seems to handle acknowledgements, re-transmissions etc.
2022-06-13T19:18:58 < karlp> 100m outdoors, just use esp32 and wifi ;)
2022-06-13T19:19:00 < tct> karlp, indoors.
2022-06-13T19:19:19 < karlp> 100m indoors with with 100s of nodes you're entering specialist shit fast. :)
2022-06-13T19:20:22 < karlp> 802.15.4 would be pushing it to do 100m indoors.
2022-06-13T19:20:40 < karlp> for direct at least, as soon as you're meshing, it's a whole new game.
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2022-06-13T19:29:52 < jpa-> every building has wifi, just use it
2022-06-13T19:31:24 < BrainDamage> zigbee will work, but won't be cheap, the network doesn't even have to be a star
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2022-06-13T19:39:32 < mouseghost> how do you do i2c slave mode in stm32wb?
2022-06-13T19:39:56 < mouseghost> it says in the datasheet that its in the slave mode automatically, and i know that i can set my own address. but how do i receive data etc.?
2022-06-13T19:40:41 < tct> I used zigbee once in 2018 - it was painful.
2022-06-13T19:41:36 < Steffanx> But its 2022 now
2022-06-13T19:43:09 < karlp> wifi is a really good bet IMO :)
2022-06-13T19:43:29 < tct> this needs to be controllable from a smartphone via hotspot - is that going to pose any problems?
2022-06-13T19:43:38 < Steffanx> No one says LoRa :P
2022-06-13T19:49:01 < mawk> tct: do 6lowpan shit
2022-06-13T19:49:52 < karlp> phone joins same network that devices are on? :)
2022-06-13T19:50:23 < tct> karlp, needs to work with a phone´s hotspot.
2022-06-13T19:50:34 < tct> no other router/accesspoints/network-spawners in there.
2022-06-13T19:51:06 < zyp> sounds like you're doing it wrong
2022-06-13T19:51:34 < tct> trying to convince the customer of that as well, yes.
2022-06-13T19:51:41 < zyp> what sort of building is this where you expect to be able to do a star network with a 100m radius?
2022-06-13T19:51:56 < tct> expo/galleria stuff. artistic things.
2022-06-13T19:52:15 < zyp> so it'll all be line of sight?
2022-06-13T19:52:24 < karlp> that's "outdoors" then :)
2022-06-13T19:52:24 < tct> jup
2022-06-13T19:53:01 < zyp> how about some nrf52 shit? radio regs are documented
2022-06-13T19:53:26 < tct> nrf52 is bluetooth, no?
2022-06-13T19:53:35 < zyp> it's anything you want it to do
2022-06-13T19:53:46 < tct> what I do not want to do is implement my own RF stack
2022-06-13T19:53:54 < Steffanx> They even offer enhanced shockburst stuff
2022-06-13T19:53:57 < karlp> but you want 100s of nodes, 100m, star network?
2022-06-13T19:54:01 < karlp> you're in a world of rf :)
2022-06-13T19:54:11 < zyp> you want to run a star network, it's not like that's a very thick RF stack
2022-06-13T19:54:12 < Steffanx> But not sure what they enhanced
2022-06-13T19:54:36 < karlp> btmesh, zigbee, or plain wifi with a deployed infrastructure sound easiest....
2022-06-13T19:54:37 < tct> zyp, that is true
2022-06-13T19:55:09 < karlp> unless you're trying to get lock in developer time with a totally custom rf implmentation..
2022-06-13T19:55:17 < zyp> RF stack is like send_packet(); if(wait_for_ack() == TIMEOUT) { retransmit(); }
2022-06-13T19:56:15 < zyp> no queueing and forwarding and bullshit and packets getting lost halfway
2022-06-13T19:56:34 < karlp> sounds like a world of pain with 100 nodes and dealing with artists putting them behind a pillar 95m away...
2022-06-13T19:56:34 < zyp> with a single hop link they either arrive completely or not at all
2022-06-13T19:56:49 < karlp> but good luck, will be fun if the budget is there...
2022-06-13T19:57:11 < zyp> karlp, by the way, is the radio regs on your WCH documented?
2022-06-13T19:57:12 < tct> karlp, budget is certainly not there ;-) 
2022-06-13T19:57:20 < tct> zyp, that sounds easier than I expected.
2022-06-13T19:57:25 < karlp> zyp: of course not :)
2022-06-13T19:57:32 < zyp> wonderful
2022-06-13T19:57:39 < tct> Steffanx, I´d still be interested in your suggestion tho. so one can use NRF24L01+ but simply implement your own addressing stuff?
2022-06-13T19:57:46 < zyp> of course
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2022-06-13T19:58:24 < zyp> nrf52 is pretty much just a cortex-m married to a nrf24l01+, with the radio memory mapped instead of accessed over SPI
2022-06-13T19:58:39 < tct> that sounds like the most promising solution to me so far. I basically just need something where I can send ´turn off´ to all nodes and request a node to send it´s status (eg. battery level).
2022-06-13T19:58:53 < tct> zyp, interesting.
2022-06-13T19:59:27 < zyp> that explanation is a bit simplified, the nrf52 radio is more capable (e.g. larger packets and higher baudrates)
2022-06-13T19:59:36 < karlp> that's it: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/s0kr8.png
2022-06-13T19:59:58 < Steffanx> You can even make your nrf24 do some basic BLE. 
2022-06-13T20:00:14 < zyp> karlp, ah, about as much as the usb regs in the one I looked at
2022-06-13T20:00:22 < karlp> chapter 13 and chapter 14 are "reserved" as well.
2022-06-13T20:00:49 < karlp> I've got usb registers, but this is the host/device one, you were looking at the super speed one right?
2022-06-13T20:01:00 < tct> zyp, would you know whether nordic provides example projects for this sort of thing?
2022-06-13T20:01:19 < Steffanx> They do. (Without looking) 
2022-06-13T20:02:04 < karlp> the bt blob includes a rudimentary task running hting you can re-use, and includes it's own memset, at least...
2022-06-13T20:03:04 < karlp> and a nice chinese api doc: https://github.com/openwch/ch583/blob/main/EVT/EXAM/BLE/%E6%B2%81%E6%81%92%E4%BD%8E%E5%8A%9F%E8%80%97%E8%93%9D%E7%89%99%E8%BD%AF%E4%BB%B6%E5%BC%80%E5%8F%91%E5%8F%82%E8%80%83%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C.pdf
2022-06-13T20:03:13 < Steffanx> Something like https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Development-software/nRF5-SDK-for-Mesh tct?
2022-06-13T20:03:15 < zyp> I did a simple receiver with laks on nrf52 once: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Oy3Fs
2022-06-13T20:03:36 < tct> really no need for mesh. also not bluetooth.
2022-06-13T20:03:59 < zyp> i.e. give the radio a buffer, tell it to receive into it
2022-06-13T20:04:23 < zyp> writing should be about as hard
2022-06-13T20:05:42 < tct> zyp, so when I have multiple nRF52 doing this, I can just send something to the RF TX buffer and it will appear on the RF RX buffer on the other nodes? Then I can implement my own communication protocol where I send a header with an address, and ´client nodes´ will filter based on that?
2022-06-13T20:06:27 < zyp> I believe there's address filtering hardware too
2022-06-13T20:06:37 < zyp> think of how ethernet MACs works, it's similar to that
2022-06-13T20:06:52 < tct> yeah I want something like that indeed
2022-06-13T20:07:22 < tct> zyp, regarding your paste: mind sharing radio/radio.h ?
2022-06-13T20:07:52 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8BJGr
2022-06-13T20:09:35 < tct> so summary would be: Use nRF52 but without zigbee/bluetooth. Instead, I implement my own protocol and this will not be that painful because nRF takes care of all the ´hard RF parts´ similar to how I would just talk to the NRF24L01 over SPI?
2022-06-13T20:09:56 < zyp> yes
2022-06-13T20:11:01 < tct> awesome, thank you.
2022-06-13T20:11:29 < Steffanx> You can always look into what the enhanced shockburst provides you.. its by nrf and for nrf52 as well
2022-06-13T20:11:36 < tct> I think I was just very thrown off by all the mentioning of bluetooth in the nRF52811 datasheet
2022-06-13T20:11:55 < Steffanx> Also good luck getting nrf-whatever for a reasonable price
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2022-06-13T20:13:12 < zyp> tct, that's like getting thrown off by all the mentioning of TCP on a part with an ethernet MAC that you only want to use for UDP :)
2022-06-13T20:13:19 < tct> zyp, true :p
2022-06-13T20:13:43 < tct> zyp, so when nordic talks about for example bluetooth in their datasheets, this is mainly just a software stack they offer and it would just talk to the RADIO peripheral the same way I would manually?
2022-06-13T20:13:57 < tct> i.e. there is no ´bluetooth hardware´ - it´s just a generic 2.4 GHz radio?
2022-06-13T20:14:12 < zyp> kinda
2022-06-13T20:14:36 < zyp> it's all very similar, but there's subsets and supersets
2022-06-13T20:14:52 < zyp> e.g. I think some stuff is only 1Mb/s, while BLE can do 2Mb/s and whatever
2022-06-13T20:14:59 < Steffanx> If you want to make it real fun you use both at the same time. BLE and custom radio communication 
2022-06-13T20:15:05 < zyp> yep
2022-06-13T20:15:22 < zyp> multiple protocols can timeshare a single radio
2022-06-13T20:15:45 < zyp> I believe it's supported to run BLE and zigbee together, unless that was BLE and thread
2022-06-13T20:16:44 < Steffanx> Yeah they eve  provide an example 
2022-06-13T20:17:06 < Steffanx> Or used to.
2022-06-13T20:18:40 < Steffanx> To me it sounds like pretty much anything with a radio works for you tct
2022-06-13T20:20:16 < Steffanx> As long as you don't run into duty cycle issues or don't care about it.
2022-06-13T20:22:15 < zyp> by the way, does anybody know any cheap stuff that talks CAN-FD or do I have to roll my own USB to CAN-FD adapter from a stm32g4?
2022-06-13T20:22:45 < Steffanx> Heh I was looking into it yesterday and no, not really
2022-06-13T20:22:53 < Steffanx> Not something that's available nor cheap
2022-06-13T20:23:08 < Steffanx> *and
2022-06-13T20:23:29 < zyp> does mp1 have CAN-FD? maybe there's some breakout boards with a PHY?
2022-06-13T20:23:48 < fenugrec> zyp, there is work pending for canfd support in linux' gs_usb driver, not sure if it was upstreamed yet
2022-06-13T20:24:39 < fenugrec> https://github.com/linklayer/gs_usb_fd
2022-06-13T20:24:42 < Xogium> zyp: it does, on the 153
2022-06-13T20:24:50 < Xogium> afaik
2022-06-13T20:24:59 < Xogium> well, 153 and 157
2022-06-13T20:25:26 < fenugrec> not sure if available though
2022-06-13T20:26:03 < zyp> ah, «cantact pro» looks pretty close to what I want
2022-06-13T20:27:42 < zyp> > Orders placed now ship Apr 22, 2022.
2022-06-13T20:27:47 < zyp> don't think so.
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2022-06-13T20:41:18 < karlp> might just be a static updated site, putting in when they were getting stock again?
2022-06-13T20:48:43 < zyp> what's everybody's favorite protocol for framing binary data over an UART?
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2022-06-13T20:50:19 < zyp> I'm considering SLIP framing
2022-06-13T20:54:23 < zyp> HDLC might also be interesting
2022-06-13T20:54:29 < zyp> and COBS
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2022-06-13T20:59:25 < zyp> okay, COBS looks good
2022-06-13T21:06:34 < tct> Steffanx, true :D
2022-06-13T21:21:34 < qyx> zyp: g4, g0b and mp1 habe can-fd
2022-06-13T21:22:07 < qyx> zyp: ventyl wants to do some CAN-FD analyser thing when I managhe to make him a PCB for H7
2022-06-13T21:22:15 < qyx> oh, H7 too, I forgot
2022-06-13T21:22:33 < zyp> ah, so g0b1 would be the lowest cost solution for a USB to CAN-FD adapter
2022-06-13T21:23:00 < qyx> nope, g431 was chjeaper
2022-06-13T21:23:07 < zyp> heh
2022-06-13T21:23:25 < qyx> I would go for H730, only a bit more expensive
2022-06-13T21:23:50 < qyx> it used to be 6e in singles
2022-06-13T21:24:03 < qyx> 128K flash only thougjh
2022-06-13T21:25:03 < zyp> if I want to do a simple one-off adapter, g431 still loks like the best bet, it's in stock at jlcpcb for assembly at $6 or so
2022-06-13T21:25:43 < zyp> but idk
2022-06-13T21:26:13 < zyp> I decided to skip that for now and use UART instead
2022-06-13T21:27:08 < zyp> now that I've got orbtrace out the door, I can go back to play with my motor control project, and the board has CAN-FD broken out on solder pads and UART hooked to the onboard st-link
2022-06-13T21:29:39 < zyp> and this project is what inspired me to write protonium, to have a simple way to peek and poke at it, and it shouldn't matter to much whether I run that over COBS/UART or ISO-TP/CAN-FD
2022-06-13T21:32:50 < fenugrec> COBS kindof reminds me of XON/XOFF handshaking
2022-06-13T21:35:34 < fenugrec> oh, not really. I thought it was just escaping a few special byte vals but there's more
2022-06-13T21:36:40 < zyp> you're probably thinking of SLIP style framing
2022-06-13T21:36:48 < fenugrec> you could do a form of iso-tp over uart... sortof like iso14230
2022-06-13T21:37:33 < zyp> I could, but I don't want to :)
2022-06-13T21:38:14 < fenugrec> well if you later wanted to put isotp on CAN, then it would less stuff to change
2022-06-13T21:38:24 < fenugrec> would *mean
2022-06-13T21:39:54 < zyp> as far as I'm concerned, CAN is already framed and ISO-TP is a protocol for splitting and reassembling packets across frames not large enough to hold a whole
2022-06-13T21:40:10 < fenugrec> yea
2022-06-13T21:40:34 < zyp> whereas UARTs are bytestreams that needs a framing layer, and depending on the framing layer the frames can be arbitrarily large
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2022-06-13T21:42:35 < zyp> my goal for protonium is to be able to run rpc across arbitrary framed transports, only requiring a send() and a recv()
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2022-06-13T21:47:21 < qyx> zyp: is the vevor shop legit?
2022-06-13T21:47:28 < zyp> yes
2022-06-13T21:47:43 < zyp> I'm happy with both the plasma cutter and the tig welder I got
2022-06-13T21:49:12 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984890710115369032/IMG_20220610_204339.jpg <- this was made with those
2022-06-13T21:49:29 < mouseghost> doldoe
2022-06-13T21:49:31 < mouseghost> dildoe
2022-06-13T21:50:05 < zyp> I started cutting those circles with a hole saw, but it was slow going: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984762756907536394/IMG_20220610_121452.jpg
2022-06-13T21:50:34 < zyp> so I brought out the plasma cutter instead: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984765764999471134/IMG_20220610_122643.jpg
2022-06-13T21:51:18 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/984784872566566992/IMG_20220610_134306.jpg
2022-06-13T21:51:29 < zyp> took some grinding to clean them up, but still faster than hole saw :)
2022-06-13T21:52:18 < jpa-> qyx: i'm happy with the spindle & vfd i got from vevor
2022-06-13T21:54:51 < zyp> what I like about vevor is that it's priced like a china shop, but the warehouse is in germany or something so stuff arrives fast
2022-06-13T21:55:30 < zyp> thinking about picking up a powder coating gun soon too
2022-06-13T22:00:48 < jpa-> something weird about their VAT handling though
2022-06-13T22:01:10 < jpa-> they didn't want to provide VAT invoice, but the shipping came from europe anyway
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2022-06-13T22:02:30 < zyp> for me, norwegian customs claims VAT on it
2022-06-13T22:03:11 < zyp> so if EU VAT is supposedly included, I guess I'm double-paying or something
2022-06-13T22:04:09 < zyp> but it doesn't matter, I just treat their prices as being without VAT, which is pretty much the case from anywhere I buy anyway
2022-06-13T22:06:17 < qyx> t doesn't matter if their unbranded pump lasts 4 years like a grundfos one and costs 1/10
2022-06-13T22:06:49 < qyx> I got my pump for 65e, best buy ever
2022-06-13T22:07:07 < qyx> ebayed from germany
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2022-06-13T22:12:08 < jpa-> lots of mail from that zyp.no webstore, i guess they try to make me feel like something is happening ;)
2022-06-13T22:12:46 < zyp> yeah, I just packed it
2022-06-13T22:14:48 < qyx> lol is it you?
2022-06-13T22:15:29 < zyp> is what who?
2022-06-13T22:16:03 < rajkosto> zyp.no uses a self signed https cert why
2022-06-13T22:16:34 < zyp> because nothing is running on the top level domain, you're looking for store.zyp.no
2022-06-13T22:20:14 < Steffanx> Only order #34 hm
2022-06-13T22:20:49 < jpa-> how many chips or assembled devices does zyp have in stock?
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2022-06-13T22:22:59 < zyp> still around a hundred or so left
2022-06-13T22:23:51 < catphish> a hundred what though
2022-06-13T22:24:11 < jpa-> thingies
2022-06-13T22:24:15 < catphish> ah ok
2022-06-13T22:24:18 < zyp> catphish, https://store.zyp.no/category/orbtrace
2022-06-13T22:24:28 < jpa-> timethiefs
2022-06-13T22:24:39 < jpa-> you think you buy a tool but actually you buy a project
2022-06-13T22:25:03 < Steffanx> Nice for in the box with unused boards as well.
2022-06-13T22:25:06 < zyp> jpa-, :D
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2022-06-13T22:25:34 < catphish> i'm looking at it but i don't know what it does
2022-06-13T22:25:48 < catphish> it's JTAG+signal analyzer?
2022-06-13T22:26:13 < jpa-> nah, the arm hardware tracing, compare with  http://essentialscrap.com/tips/arm_trace/theory.html
2022-06-13T22:27:45 < Steffanx> https://orbcode.org/orbuculum/a-whistle-stop-tour-of-orbtrace-minis-tracing-capabilities/ a nice summary catphish
2022-06-13T22:29:12 < catphish> so what does it connect to? SWD and SWO?
2022-06-13T22:29:27 < jpa-> swd and trace pins, i think
2022-06-13T22:29:34 < catphish> oh, that and anther trace pin, yeash
2022-06-13T22:29:39 < catphish> never even seen that!
2022-06-13T22:29:55 < jpa-> but i trust that SWO support can be added if it isn't there already, because that's what i'm going to use anyway :)
2022-06-13T22:30:41 < zyp> yeah, SWO support is still missing, but it's at the top of my TODO list, because that's what's available on most boards I'm working on still :)
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2022-06-13T22:32:47 < catphish> i should learn to debug properly instead of my usual printf/blink an led style
2022-06-13T22:33:23 < catphish> the problem is that i've just never found a nice GUI for it
2022-06-13T22:33:34 < Steffanx> ozone :P
2022-06-13T22:33:42 < Steffanx> but yeah.. segger tools.
2022-06-13T22:34:00 < zyp> the thing about SWO is that I want to support *fast* SWO
2022-06-13T22:34:12 < jpa-> that's what i want also
2022-06-13T22:34:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oL5F9.png <- this is how 168 Mbaud SWO looks after the voltage buffer on the board
2022-06-13T22:34:34 < jpa-> ideally, autobaud at any rate up to 100MHz
2022-06-13T22:35:17 < jpa-> looks like you need a better oscilloscope probe :)
2022-06-13T22:35:34 < zyp> that's captured with a SP200
2022-06-13T22:36:04 < jpa-> yeah, long ground lead really shows up
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2022-06-13T22:38:51 < catphish> that's some impressive speed
2022-06-13T22:39:11 < catphish> i will never own an oscilloscope that fast :)
2022-06-13T22:39:21 < zyp> it's only a 800€ scope
2022-06-13T22:39:43 < catphish> i will never own an oscilloscope that fast :)
2022-06-13T22:39:51 < zyp> your loss :)
2022-06-13T22:40:06 < catphish> well i suppose i might, if i actually need it, 800 doesn't seem insane
2022-06-13T22:40:14 < catphish> i'm still contemplating buying a rigol
2022-06-13T22:40:50 < Steffanx> I always thought you are a moneyed westerner, catphish  
2022-06-13T22:40:59 < catphish> i am
2022-06-13T22:40:59 < Steffanx> Especially after selling your company 
2022-06-13T22:41:35 < catphish> and i wish to stay that way
2022-06-13T22:41:40 < jpa-> don't buy one of the cheap old rigols, siglent seems much better in that price category
2022-06-13T22:41:58 < Steffanx> The one zyp has is nice. But 2 channels, get 2 for free 
2022-06-13T22:42:02 < jpa-> eg. rigol 1054z only calculates math functions from the downsampled data instead of full data
2022-06-13T22:42:02 < Steffanx> Buy*
2022-06-13T22:42:04 < catphish> i've looked at this several times, i DS1054Z still seems the best choise
2022-06-13T22:43:13 < jpa-> e.g. rms measurement is quite useless when it depends entirely on zoom level  http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/noise_rms.png
2022-06-13T22:43:43 < zyp> haha
2022-06-13T22:43:53 < catphish> better choice? https://www.siglent.eu/product/2807955/siglent-sds1104x-u-100mhz-four-channel-oscilloscope
2022-06-13T22:44:33 < zyp> people have reverse engineered that siglent enough to run custom gateware on it
2022-06-13T22:44:33 < jpa-> yes, at least it gets math right - isn't that the scope Steffanx has?
2022-06-13T22:45:14 < Steffanx> yes, haxored to the 1204
2022-06-13T22:45:54 < zyp> https://twitter.com/enjoy_digital/status/1365375234820472833
2022-06-13T22:46:10 < catphish> Steffanx: which model specifically?
2022-06-13T22:47:28 < catphish> they seem to have replaced SDS1104X-E with SDS1104X-U
2022-06-13T22:47:38 < Steffanx> Siglent SDS1104X-E
2022-06-13T22:47:42 < catphish> oh, both still available though
2022-06-13T22:48:26 < catphish> can't immediately tell what's different about the -U one
2022-06-13T22:49:15 < Steffanx> https://www.eleshop.nl/siglent-sds1104x-e-oscilloscope.html that page in dutch has a table
2022-06-13T22:49:40 < zyp> looks like -E has MSO option, -U doesn't
2022-06-13T22:49:45 < zyp> i.e. digital inputs
2022-06-13T22:50:14 < Steffanx> i wonder if the -U is just software crippled or not when it comes to sample rate and memory.
2022-06-13T22:50:29 < catphish> well maybe i'll buy a SDS1104X-E
2022-06-13T22:50:36 < Steffanx> maybe :)
2022-06-13T22:51:35 < catphish> is it best sub-500-local-currency choice?
2022-06-13T22:54:01 < catphish> it gets bonus points for being awesomely hackable
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2022-06-13T23:03:25 < catphish> the lack of buttons on the siglent looks a bit annoying
2022-06-13T23:03:54 < catphish> seems like the better device though
2022-06-13T23:07:47 < catphish> on paper, my current scope is actually better, maybe my expectations are too high
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2022-06-13T23:08:14 < kaki> how much mcus would cost using leading edge nodes?
2022-06-13T23:08:39 < kaki> and is there any other reason to use trailing edge than price?
2022-06-13T23:09:08 < kaki> trailing edge = 65-140nm
2022-06-13T23:10:43 < zyp> voltage ranges? smaller nodes = lower voltages
2022-06-13T23:13:13 < kaki> could you make io accepting normal voltages using the same process?
2022-06-13T23:14:53 < kaki> I mean mcus have internal regulators for core anyway?
2022-06-13T23:15:21 < zyp> yeah, that's because the nodes are already small enough they need it
2022-06-13T23:18:09 < BrainDamage> yes, but you make them slower
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2022-06-13T23:56:37 < karlp> huh, never heard of cobs.
2022-06-13T23:57:29 < karlp> there's a bunch of cantact clone shit on ali iirc, I looked at getting one when "people" kept insisting I evaluate can shit on locm3
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--- Day changed ti kesä 14 2022
2022-06-14T00:03:08 < zyp> I hacked up an encoder: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/l7Uah
2022-06-14T00:03:10 < zyp> seems to work
2022-06-14T00:07:31 < Steffanx> karlp:  the cantact doesn't support CAN-FD, the pro doesn't. (And can't find that one on ali)
2022-06-14T00:08:52 < Steffanx> The pro does*
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2022-06-14T00:41:28 < fenugrec> and anyway that's conditional to a kernel patch, AFAIK not upstreamed yet
2022-06-14T00:43:06 < Steffanx> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vmHCko or https://a.aliexpress.com/_uAwUt2 might be something I could try
2022-06-14T00:46:39 < catphish> i'm looking for a can adapter that's compatible with savvycan
2022-06-14T00:47:51 < catphish> which i believe anything that works with linux socketCAN
2022-06-14T00:49:16 < catphish> i have a really cheap board with RP2040 and CAN, but would need to write my own USB stack for it to work with linux :(
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2022-06-14T01:17:40 < Steffanx> Ordered, and we'll see. 
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2022-06-14T01:32:35 < karlp> 19:29 <jpa-> but i trust that SWO support can be added if it isn't there already, because that's what i'm going to use anyway :)
2022-06-14T01:32:38 < karlp> yar, me too ;)
2022-06-14T01:32:53 < karlp> though apparently my efr32 has one trace pin... shared with.... swo!
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2022-06-14T01:35:24 < karlp> catphish: I just got a hantek 6022bl to be a "I just need to see some shapes" scope :)
2022-06-14T01:35:44 < karlp> to me the 400euro is like.... not enough to be a permanent solution, but too much for a not all the way tool...
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2022-06-14T01:42:02 < Steffanx> Oh that china can-fd thingy uses closed sores dlls meh
2022-06-14T01:46:31 < fenugrec> ofc
2022-06-14T01:46:55 < karlp> fuck can anyway...
2022-06-14T01:47:03 < Steffanx> Lol. 
2022-06-14T01:47:04 < fenugrec> either a shitty  broken clone of some other API, or some half-assed undocumented API
2022-06-14T01:47:09 < fenugrec> Agreed
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2022-06-14T01:48:38 < catphish> karlp: i have one of those, it's really quite shit, to the point of being barely useful imo, but hope it does something for you
2022-06-14T01:49:31 < catphish> this board seems like a cheap way to do CAN<->USB, just need to write some drivers https://www.seeedstudio.com/CANBed-RP2040-CAN-Bus-development-board-p-5262.html
2022-06-14T01:50:16 < zyp> doesn't do CAN-FD though
2022-06-14T01:50:29 < zyp> I've got plenty of stuff that does CAN already, just not much CAN-FD :)
2022-06-14T01:50:30 < karlp> depends what you're looking at I guess.
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2022-06-14T01:50:40 < karlp> it's working ok for me, but I don't need it much...
2022-06-14T01:50:47 < catphish> i've never seen can-fd
2022-06-14T01:52:06 < catphish> zyp: they sell this though, which presumably does https://www.seeedstudio.com/CANBed-FD-Arduino-CAN-FD-Development-Kit-p-4724.html
2022-06-14T01:53:10 < zyp> probably, but I'm not touching atmega :)
2022-06-14T01:53:18 < Steffanx> fenugrec: it must be cloned then, because the spi seems to be pretty well documented with all kinds of readable examples 
2022-06-14T01:53:26 < catphish> zyp: lol
2022-06-14T01:53:45 < catphish> i just want something that can do linux's can api
2022-06-14T01:54:01 < fenugrec> socketcan ? 
2022-06-14T01:54:04 < Steffanx> The api* 
2022-06-14T01:54:44 < catphish> fenugrec: yes socketcan
2022-06-14T01:55:46 < catphish> actually socketcan isn't essential, i just want something that can sniff and replay CAN with a nice GUI, but the obvious GUI is savvycan and the obvious hardware API is socketcan
2022-06-14T01:56:06 < fenugrec> if you can't find an stm32f0-based board, next bet would probably be anything with an SJA1000; as I recall those have some kernel support
2022-06-14T01:56:26 < fenugrec> never heard of savvycan. I've used wireshark and CANdevstudio though
2022-06-14T01:57:22 < catphish> looks like CANdevstudio is also socketcan, so hardware could be used with either tool
2022-06-14T02:00:14 < fenugrec> strictly I don't think socketcan is "an API" , it just makes CAN hardware look & taste like regular net i/f
2022-06-14T02:01:08 < catphish> well, it gives can a socket API, i wouldn't quite call it a "regular" network interface
2022-06-14T02:01:17 < fenugrec> strictly *speaking. Not that it matters. But I like that better than on Win* where you need mfg drivers + mfg software (well Qt now has a pretty comprehensive QtCANbus thing now)
2022-06-14T02:04:05 < catphish> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/communication-wireless-development-tools/7154255
2022-06-14T02:04:17 < catphish> this thing looks to be socketcan supported
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2022-06-14T16:01:23 < tct> how is Steffanx doing?
2022-06-14T16:03:35 < mawk> angry with C++
2022-06-14T16:03:40 < mawk> presumably
2022-06-14T16:03:52 < Steffanx> not with c++, more with the shit someone produced
2022-06-14T16:04:15 < Steffanx> but i removed some lines of code and now it works properly. :P
2022-06-14T16:05:48 < Steffanx> and what about sir mr tct?
2022-06-14T16:06:09 < tct> meh
2022-06-14T16:06:30 < tct> are you doing the thing where you remove random lines of codes and check whether it ´still works´ ? :D
2022-06-14T16:06:44 < Steffanx> Not entirely random. 
2022-06-14T16:07:06 < Steffanx> 1 tool doesnt send this command it works fine, the other does send it and shit happens. So i remove it :P
2022-06-14T16:08:27 < Steffanx> The receiving part of this is all a blackbox for me. What actually happens is up to the client or they have to provide me the tools to figure out what exactly happens ;)
2022-06-14T16:08:36 < Steffanx> but i dont think i care enough
2022-06-14T16:11:51 < GenTooMan> I remember my first embedded C++ project. I had fun with incidental object construction and destruction. I use the word messy as an understatement. :D
2022-06-14T16:13:40 < GenTooMan> but my code looked cool! :D
2022-06-14T16:16:01 < Steffanx> oh this code is a multithreaded mess.
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2022-06-14T16:16:32 < Steffanx> Im not even sure why we accepted this project. Probably because its a good client and €€€
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2022-06-14T16:21:26 < Steffanx> and what about mr tct? Meh?
2022-06-14T16:22:49 < GenTooMan> Well often projects are accepted without thinking. The onus of the project is seldom on the people accepting it. :D
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2022-06-14T16:23:11 < Steffanx> Exactly :(
2022-06-14T16:24:02 < Steffanx> And first it was my colleagues burden to bear, but he left a long time ago already-_-
2022-06-14T16:24:06 < Steffanx> now its mine :D
2022-06-14T16:24:29  * GenTooMan offers massive weights to put on someone else?
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2022-06-14T18:59:32 < karlp> zyp: what's a "good" way of casting a uint8_t array/pointer to a struct for wire deserialization?
2022-06-14T19:03:05 < karlp> I can just raw cast it, but is that really it? https://godbolt.org/z/o8sPz7fEE works, but it's kinda meh.
2022-06-14T19:03:13 < karlp> enough for now I reckon though.
2022-06-14T19:05:03 < \dev\ice> it should be enaught
2022-06-14T19:19:38 < fenugrec> if you're casting structs with unaligned, say, u16/u32 members, you may run into problems on certain platforms
2022-06-14T19:20:53 < fenugrec> e.g. M0
2022-06-14T19:25:01 < fenugrec> isn't that some kind of "type punning" anyway, and not recommended (at least in C)
2022-06-14T19:33:45 < rajkosto> karlp, this is UB with strict aliasing optimizations
2022-06-14T19:34:01 < rajkosto> the only allowed way of type punning in C++ is with memcpy
2022-06-14T19:34:15 < rajkosto> in C you can also use unions but not C++
2022-06-14T19:34:22 < fenugrec> I was wondering about that, if the raw buffer was char[] would that still be UB ?
2022-06-14T19:34:38 < rajkosto> unsigned char and char and uint8_t should be the same about this
2022-06-14T19:34:45 < fenugrec> (I thought  C has some exceptions for aliasing to char* stuff)
2022-06-14T19:34:46 < rajkosto> you break alignment if you cast it to a struct.
2022-06-14T19:34:53 < fenugrec> yea that's for sure
2022-06-14T19:35:26 < fenugrec> not curious enough to go into ##c and get my mental ass kicked
2022-06-14T19:35:35 < rajkosto> since you only have 4 bytes, memcpying to a struct on the stack is the way to do it
2022-06-14T19:35:41 < rajkosto> the compiler will optimize it out anyway
2022-06-14T19:35:56 < fenugrec> *unless you're compiling with -fno-builtin
2022-06-14T19:36:50 < rajkosto> anyway, even "raw old casts" should be reinterpret_cast ;)
2022-06-14T19:37:14 < rajkosto> but yeah on ARM you will get a segfault accessing unaligned memory
2022-06-14T19:37:21 < karlp> no you fucking don't
2022-06-14T19:37:22 < rajkosto> so you will have to memcpy it
2022-06-14T19:37:46 < rajkosto> you wont get an alignment trap if you load an int from a non 32bit aligned addr ?
2022-06-14T19:38:01 < karlp> on m0 you get a performance drop.
2022-06-14T19:38:01 < fenugrec> um "yes you fucking do", at least on M0 ? how does the compiler know your struct ptr is on a random boundary ?
2022-06-14T19:38:18 < rajkosto> well thats nice of the m0
2022-06-14T19:38:37 < fenugrec> or am I thinking of another arch
2022-06-14T19:39:04 < karlp> anyway, fuck m0, I'm not using such a retarded platform.
2022-06-14T19:39:07 < rajkosto> fenugrec, alignas/alignof
2022-06-14T19:39:46 < specing> karlp: lol, that's retarded?
2022-06-14T19:39:54 < specing> imagine using a microchip PIC
2022-06-14T19:39:55 < fenugrec> not sure why you're getting all angry about M0, it's a valid target, with valid concerns. PM0215 , 2.4 Fault Handling : [faults are]  : an attempted load or store to an unaligned address.
2022-06-14T19:40:18 < fenugrec> that is, a HardFault. so yes, it will "fucking segfault"
2022-06-14T19:40:39 < fenugrec> but sure, write UB code that WorksHere
2022-06-14T19:40:39 < karlp> only if you try and use a whole word load!
2022-06-14T19:40:41 < englishman> PIC are in stock.
2022-06-14T19:41:51 < fenugrec> still waiting for that MSPIC430F84 joint venture to be released
2022-06-14T19:42:33 < karlp> v7m says it's implementation defined whether it's a fault or not.
2022-06-14T19:42:46 < karlp> and stm32 doens't at least.
2022-06-14T19:43:13 < karlp> v8m makes unaligned required if mainline feature set.
2022-06-14T19:43:14 < rajkosto> either way gcc loves doing wild optimizations that assume UB
2022-06-14T19:43:28 < rajkosto> might work, might break when you change something unrelated
2022-06-14T19:43:55 < karlp> if alignment was a problem, then memcpy won't fix it anyway...
2022-06-14T19:44:24 < karlp> unless you want to memcpy each field into a "expanded alignment" internal struct
2022-06-14T19:46:18 < rajkosto> you memcpy to a destination that has the correct type and thus the correct alignment
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2022-06-14T19:47:18 < karlp> yeah, so memcpy each and every field from the wire struct into a different field.
2022-06-14T19:47:24 < karlp> so gross :|
2022-06-14T19:47:26 < rajkosto> ohhh your struct has PACK(1)
2022-06-14T19:47:31 < rajkosto> that's the GROSS part, you never mentioned that.
2022-06-14T19:48:04 < rajkosto> the last time i did that was like... 2001
2022-06-14T19:48:32 < fenugrec> no,you  memcpy(right_struct, rawdata, sizeof) . Even if right_struct has __pack__ , gcc should generate proper access code even for unaligned members. If you just cast rawdata which happens to have an odd offset, then UB, and unaligned access
2022-06-14T19:48:50 < rajkosto> but yes that works too
2022-06-14T19:48:59 < rajkosto> but it will generate different instructions than a "normal" struct
2022-06-14T19:49:07 < rajkosto> that will run slower
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2022-06-14T19:49:45 < fenugrec> if the members happen to be aligned properly, it shouldn't be different, but otherwise yes
2022-06-14T19:49:47 < rajkosto> when i "pack" data i dont use a packed struct to do it, instead i have serialization that will do a memberwise output to a buffer so it ends up packed
2022-06-14T19:50:14 < rajkosto> similarly, memberwise read from a buffer, memcpying each member
2022-06-14T19:50:21 < rajkosto> (if its a POD type
2022-06-14T19:50:31 < fenugrec> I usually don<t pack structs but I try to put u32' and pointers first, and loose u8 / bool at the end  : )
2022-06-14T19:52:46 < rajkosto> did you know about the BITFIELD trick
2022-06-14T19:53:09 < fenugrec> Out of principle I try to avoid bitfields altogether
2022-06-14T19:53:11 < rajkosto> if you have loads of bools, even if they are strewn around the struct, just make them all a uint32_t boolName : 1;
2022-06-14T19:53:18 < rajkosto> they will all be COLLECTED into the place where the first one is
2022-06-14T19:53:22 < rajkosto> and become one uint32_t
2022-06-14T19:54:12 < rajkosto> ofc bitfields are not portable for on-wire stuff, so only use for in-memory savings
2022-06-14T19:54:13 < karlp> I bet that causes no surprises to anyone ever.. :)
2022-06-14T19:54:23 < karlp> yeah, I won't touch bitfields.
2022-06-14T19:54:58 < rajkosto> it doesnt matter if you have serialization, you never use "on-wire" structs then ;)
2022-06-14T19:55:09 < karlp> and I apologize, m0 will crash, we had tests for _16bit_ alignment in libopencm3, not byte alignment of butters.
2022-06-14T19:55:17 < karlp> but still, fuck m0.
2022-06-14T19:55:36 < fenugrec> yes, I remember very well the m0 alignment issues in locm3.
2022-06-14T19:56:08 < rajkosto> all i remember is that accessing an int in a struct that i reinterpret cast from some char array gave me a nice segfault
2022-06-14T19:56:17 < fenugrec> rajkosto, what do you use for serializaton
2022-06-14T19:56:25 < rajkosto> just roll your own ?
2022-06-14T19:56:32 < fenugrec> that's so 90's
2022-06-14T19:56:35 < rajkosto> not hard to make a class that wraps a ptr
2022-06-14T19:56:48 < rajkosto> you can automatically inspect POD structs and generate their serialization/deserialization overloads
2022-06-14T19:56:52 < rajkosto> using boost::pfr
2022-06-14T19:56:58 < rajkosto> (previously magic_get)
2022-06-14T19:57:30 < rajkosto> it all just ends up being memcpys and increasing the buffer pointer
2022-06-14T19:57:41 < rajkosto> and the memcpys get optimized away
2022-06-14T19:57:43 < fenugrec> ok c++ magic, I am not an adept
2022-06-14T19:58:39 < rajkosto> i even made it so that i can put integral_constant members in my structs (which take up 0 bytes in memory) but they get serialized out as the value they hold
2022-06-14T19:58:44 < rajkosto> so thats what i use for "magic" values
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2022-06-14T20:00:48 < bitmask> waiting for packages you need to sign for sucks... "Delivery by 7PM".... I cant do anything
2022-06-14T20:00:57 < rajkosto> cant even TAKE A SHIT cuz it might be INTERRUPTED
2022-06-14T20:01:03 < bitmask> haha
2022-06-14T20:01:12 < rajkosto> yesterday i got a sms at 9am saying to expect the package by 7pm that day
2022-06-14T20:01:20 < rajkosto> i looked up the tracking and it ended up being in the WRONG CITY
2022-06-14T20:01:26 < bitmask> damn
2022-06-14T20:01:31 < rajkosto> so it ended up being redirected and wasnt here until today
2022-06-14T20:01:38 < rajkosto> i did not get a sms to expect anything today
2022-06-14T20:02:04 < rajkosto> the package ended up having my city CIRCLED with a question mark
2022-06-14T20:02:06 < rajkosto> so someone fucked up
2022-06-14T20:02:16 < rajkosto> (not the sender, the address he put was correct)
2022-06-14T20:02:50 < Xogium> huh huh that happened to me once back when I was in canada. My town was stornoway
2022-06-14T20:03:03 < Xogium> the package was sent to stornoway... in the united kingdom
2022-06-14T20:03:19 < bitmask> haha "oops"
2022-06-14T20:03:19 < rajkosto> hah except the names of my city and the city it went to was completely opposite
2022-06-14T20:03:26 < rajkosto> and it never happened to me with this service before
2022-06-14T20:03:37 < rajkosto> i guess it just somehow accidentally ended up in the wrong pile
2022-06-14T20:04:07 < Xogium> fortunately I was able to rectify that problem with the carrier... but still, wow
2022-06-14T20:04:52 < rajkosto> "hey guys, lets name every city York"
2022-06-14T20:05:00 < Xogium> hahaha
2022-06-14T20:05:14 < Xogium> how to fuck up the postal system over lol
2022-06-14T20:05:34 < rajkosto> so the sender just autocompleted the country after typing the city name ?
2022-06-14T20:05:37 < Xogium> and make everyone go postal hahaha  -- yes reference to terry pratchett
2022-06-14T20:05:38 < rajkosto> or was the postal service actually at fault
2022-06-14T20:06:34 < bitmask> I am going to wake up in a pile of skin tomorrow... this sunburn is starting to peel like crazy
2022-06-14T20:06:46 < Xogium> given the address was correct when you the sender set it, I'd expect the carrier did it somehow
2022-06-14T20:07:20 < Xogium> bitmask: don't worry, you're just gonna turn into a lizard eventually
2022-06-14T20:07:25 < rajkosto> MOLT
2022-06-14T20:08:19 < bitmask> :)
2022-06-14T20:20:06 < karlp> fucking silabs: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/pDHTk.png
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2022-06-14T20:26:40 < jpa-> silabs must have great hardware to make you stick with it :)
2022-06-14T20:27:58 < karlp> well, better than st....
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2022-06-14T20:32:23 < karlp> hrm, ok, 32k clock isn't starting up on new board then. 
2022-06-14T20:32:26 < karlp> progress I guess...
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2022-06-14T20:36:33 < jpa-> a client got batch of assembled STM32F427 boards today, none of them work
2022-06-14T20:36:43 < jpa-> i'll get to see tomorrow whether they've got fake chips
2022-06-14T20:40:21 < rajkosto> i had some that didnt have working swd
2022-06-14T20:40:24 < rajkosto> but everything else worked 
2022-06-14T20:45:21 < jpa-> these don't get recognized in the usb bootloader, so could be pretty much anything, starting from supply voltages & crystal
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2022-06-14T20:49:58 < rajkosto> ok usb boot mode worked for me
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2022-06-14T23:25:14 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/iElqdtI.png
2022-06-14T23:25:20 < bitmask> my whole body is like that :P yummm
2022-06-14T23:26:20 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/L2RtuOD.jpg
2022-06-14T23:32:58 < Steffann> Looks healthy 
2022-06-14T23:33:24 < bitmask> :)
2022-06-14T23:33:34 < Steffann> Gingers and sun.. you should know better
2022-06-14T23:33:49 < bitmask> yes I should
2022-06-14T23:33:59 < zyp> are you trying to get cancer?
2022-06-14T23:34:15 < BrainDamage> a week or so and you'll look like a snake
2022-06-14T23:34:19 < BrainDamage> when it'll start to peel off
2022-06-14T23:34:28 < bitmask> it started peeling yesterday
2022-06-14T23:34:37 < bitmask> it will be done in a few days
2022-06-14T23:34:56 < bitmask> zyp yes
2022-06-14T23:35:41 < bitmask> all I did was read outside for an hour without any sunblock :/
2022-06-14T23:37:21 < bitmask> where the fuck is the ups guy, i want to shower!
2022-06-14T23:39:14 < BrainDamage> do you receive water through courier?
2022-06-14T23:39:21 < zyp> I picked up some shit today: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/986317976066203718/IMG_20220614_191504.jpg
2022-06-14T23:39:36 < bitmask> hah no but I need to sign for the package and I can't miss it
2022-06-14T23:39:38 < BrainDamage> I heard that the us hated public services, but I didn't think it'd reach that point
2022-06-14T23:39:39 < zyp> wrestling it into the trailer and out again without help was fun
2022-06-14T23:39:59 < BrainDamage> is that an industrial oven?
2022-06-14T23:40:07 < BrainDamage> are you trying to make a pizzeria?
2022-06-14T23:40:16 < zyp> yeah, old pizza oven
2022-06-14T23:40:36 < Steffann> Lol what's the plan?
2022-06-14T23:40:51 < zyp> I'm planning to see if I can transform it into a powder coat curing oven
2022-06-14T23:41:03 < zyp> remove the middle shelf to get one big room
2022-06-14T23:42:12 < zyp> it was advertised as «free to whoever comes and picks it up first», so I did
2022-06-14T23:42:30 < zyp> I figure worst case I'll strip it for useful parts like the heaters and trash the rest
2022-06-14T23:49:49 < karlp> what's the powder coating plan that you can warrant having your own at home?
2022-06-14T23:49:58 < karlp> "bought a big house, better fill it with stuff?" 
2022-06-14T23:50:41 < zyp> no, I rented a workshop with friends, currently filling that with stuff :p
2022-06-14T23:58:37 < englishman> lol that's awesome
2022-06-14T23:58:45 < englishman> any up to date pics of the workshop?
2022-06-14T23:59:24 < catphish> bitmask: that looks unpleasant
--- Day changed ke kesä 15 2022
2022-06-15T00:01:14 < zyp> englishman, not showing the whole, but I've got a few of what we've been doing recently
2022-06-15T00:02:00 < zyp> we tore down the shitty stairs to the left side mezzanine and replaced it with a bridge from the right side one: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/983004219953012747/20220605_143536.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/985160705265266738/IMG_20220611_143630.jpg
2022-06-15T00:06:27 < zyp> ah, here's one showing the workbench area (and my little helper) https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1lEpP.jpeg
2022-06-15T00:07:55 < zyp> when I picked her up from kindergarden today, she didn't want to go home, she wanted to go to the workshop :)
2022-06-15T00:08:50 < Steffann> Haha awesome:)
2022-06-15T00:09:50 < englishman> very nice
2022-06-15T00:10:20 < englishman> can she tig weld yet or only stick?
2022-06-15T00:11:36 < zyp> I'm planning to skip stick and get her started right on tig
2022-06-15T00:15:16 < zyp> should probably do soldering first, since the technique is similar
2022-06-15T00:15:24 < bitmask> catphish yea its not great... its really not too bad now that its not painful, it only hurt the first 2 days
2022-06-15T00:16:26 < catphish> i've not tried tig yet, pretty happy with mig for now :)
2022-06-15T00:17:13 < zyp> mig is so messy in comparison :p
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2022-06-15T00:40:44 < qyx> zyp: did you use stspin830?
2022-06-15T00:42:34 < zyp> no, I've only used stspin32g4
2022-06-15T00:42:57 < zyp> which is pretty much the same thing packed together with a stm32g4
2022-06-15T00:44:00 < qyx> yeah
2022-06-15T00:44:12 < qyx> hm, I really consider using p-mosfets
2022-06-15T00:44:28 < qyx> there are many fancy motor drivers, but they are $$$ and usually very specific
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2022-06-15T00:59:55 < catphish> high side drive is always a pain in the ass
2022-06-15T01:03:10 < catphish> qyx: how would you drive it?
2022-06-15T01:03:36 < catphish> specifically, how do you turn it off?
2022-06-15T01:03:52 < qyx> with a pullup
2022-06-15T01:04:37 < qyx> for a 12 V system, single n-mos with a resistor is enough to drive it
2022-06-15T01:04:53 < qyx> if you do not want to do multi kHz PWM
2022-06-15T01:05:19 < qyx> for higher voltages, add a zener and a second resistor
2022-06-15T01:07:50 < qyx> zyp: how does your workshop look like from the outside?
2022-06-15T01:09:24 < zyp> https://goo.gl/maps/Q4CWLgDPXRm5XsKE9
2022-06-15T01:11:40 < qyx> not bad, quite new actually
2022-06-15T01:12:27 < zyp> doubt it's new at all
2022-06-15T01:13:01 < Xogium> ooh by the way, there should be a stm32mp13 serie coming out some point in the future
2022-06-15T01:13:23 < qyx> I like your holmen
2022-06-15T01:13:29 < Xogium> I saw it has already initial preparations to be mainline in linux and everything, even though its not released in the wild yet
2022-06-15T01:14:40 < zyp> Xogium, I see it's supposed to get dual ethernet, any other interesting changes?
2022-06-15T01:14:56 < Xogium> I think st intends it to be used more for IOT, but not 100% sure. It has only cortex-a cores, no m4 this time around
2022-06-15T01:15:05 < Xogium> but it has 2 ethernet ports
2022-06-15T01:15:12 < zyp> it's still just a dual a7
2022-06-15T01:15:58 < Xogium> first non mcu board st is making, far as I know
2022-06-15T01:18:19 < Xogium> it seems to be a possible lower cost solution compared to the mp15 serie, but yeah. Not sure how things are going to be
2022-06-15T01:18:38 < Xogium> but having 2 ethernet ports could be nice
2022-06-15T01:18:40 < zyp> I wish they rather made a v8a one
2022-06-15T01:18:59 < zyp> and yeah, I've seen mp15x turned down due to only having one ethernet port before
2022-06-15T01:19:20 < Xogium> that must be why st made this one then
2022-06-15T01:21:02 < Xogium> having armv8, not sure if its such a BIG advantage, yeah ? I don't know all the low level details about the architectures
2022-06-15T01:21:12 < Xogium> so maybe it is really better for some stuff
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2022-06-15T01:21:56 < Xogium> but I was thinking armv8 could be power hungry and maybe its why st didn't go there just yet
2022-06-15T01:22:12 < Xogium> maybe for them making a 32 bit SoC to test the water was also less expensive
2022-06-15T01:23:48 < Xogium> but hey, who knows ? Maybe one day we get stm64 series :D
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2022-06-15T01:31:42 < catphish> qyx: oh yeah, for low speed, a pullup should work great
2022-06-15T01:39:40 < mawk> low speed is best speed
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2022-06-15T01:47:34 < bitmask> I just want to shower :(
2022-06-15T01:47:51 < bitmask> says delivery by 7PM and its 6:50
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2022-06-15T02:27:37 < bitmask> finally!
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2022-06-15T03:07:41 < fenugrec> you coul'dve just left a note on the door, "ring a few times loud, seriously I just got into the shower hold on"
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2022-06-15T04:17:06 < karlp> right, I think it might actually be "finished" this time, for rev2... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TgsrG.png
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2022-06-15T09:12:21 < Steffann> Oh lol, I forgot about import taxes for things bought in zyp land 😅
2022-06-15T09:14:52 < jpa-> import as business, 0% tax :)
2022-06-15T09:22:22 < Steffann> I'm not business 
2022-06-15T09:22:26 < Steffann> No*
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2022-06-15T12:26:48 < karlp> ~it's not 0% tax though, it's "I can reclaim that elsewhere, ifff my business has flows that support that"
2022-06-15T12:29:57 < Steffanx> Its just the fucking extra dhl tax that annoys me. 
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2022-06-15T12:39:39 < karlp> "fortunately" this was expensive enough that the dhl fees become less of an issue ;)
2022-06-15T12:40:18 < karlp> so, simplicity studio wanted to do some updates, and it's trying to do a "sudo yum" in the background, and just asking for auth for "yum" without any further info, which I'm not doing.
2022-06-15T12:40:30 < karlp> but strace doesn't seem to log the call to yum?
2022-06-15T12:43:09 < jpa-> karlp: here in finland it actually is 0% VAT, even if the business has no income - which is not that weird situation for e.g. startups
2022-06-15T12:43:56 < jpa-> here we can also do the customs clearance by ourselves to avoid the DHL surcharge - finnish consumer protection agency made such a ruling a few years ago
2022-06-15T12:44:58 < Steffanx> DHL fees is still like 10% of the original costs,. Thats 9.99% too much for something this automated. 
2022-06-15T12:45:33 < karlp> completely agree.
2022-06-15T12:58:34 < jpa-> time to get norway and iceland to join eu
2022-06-15T12:59:38 < karlp> couldn't fuckign agree more.
2022-06-15T13:00:15 < karlp> half way is fucking dumb
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2022-06-15T13:07:54 < catphish> so, should i learn C++ and use classs, or should i keep using C and arrange things into structs and related functions?
2022-06-15T13:08:11 < karlp> me is using c++ as just c with a few extra pieces.
2022-06-15T13:08:21 < karlp> still using structs and raw methods...
2022-06-15T13:08:32 < karlp> (I'm not a good reason to do things though....)
2022-06-15T13:08:47 < karlp> intent is to start using little bits of c++ stuff as it becomes useful
2022-06-15T13:08:57 < catphish> i kinda want the opposite, i like C, i just want classes, a way to easily group stuff and call functions on a dataset
2022-06-15T13:09:02 < karlp> got a couple of small utility classes for encapsulation, nothing huge.
2022-06-15T13:09:21 < karlp> sounds like you don't like c then :)
2022-06-15T13:09:52 < karlp> ok, simpleheaded studio is trying to explicitly install wine, but no idea what for..
2022-06-15T13:10:01 < catphish> well, from what i've seen, you can emulate classes in C by using structs and functions that accept them
2022-06-15T13:10:12 < catphish> but i wonder if instead of doing that, i should just give in and learn C++
2022-06-15T13:10:52 < catphish> i'm earning opengl, and suddenly want to manage lots of identical identical objects :)
2022-06-15T13:11:09 < karlp> yeah, I'd had plenty of stuff alreayd using structs and struct pointers for "class state" 
2022-06-15T13:12:45 < catphish> there is a book entitled "object oriented programming in ansi-c", perhaps i should read it, but also perhaps i should just learn classes
2022-06-15T13:13:18 < catphish> i suspect i won't really lose anything by going C++
2022-06-15T13:14:20 < specing> sanity
2022-06-15T13:15:12 < catphish> lol
2022-06-15T13:19:43 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-06-15T13:38:34 < jpa-> sanity and designated initializers
2022-06-15T13:44:25 < karlp> fucking so dumb c++ in that.
2022-06-15T13:46:27 < mawk> there is designated initializer
2022-06-15T13:46:32 < mawk> it just has to be exactly in the right order
2022-06-15T13:46:35 < mawk> much usefulness
2022-06-15T13:46:41 < karlp>  /kick mwk
2022-06-15T13:46:43 < mawk> :(
2022-06-15T13:55:25 < zyp> "object oriented programming in ansi-c" sounds like "structs with function pointers" to me
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2022-06-15T15:32:27 < rajkosto> > implying C++ is about classes
2022-06-15T15:32:43 < rajkosto> nah bro its about template metaprogramming and negative-cost abstractions
2022-06-15T15:36:42 < fenugrec> Also I don't think anyone has ever felt the need to make a c++ version of the international  obfuscated-c contest
2022-06-15T15:42:26 < rajkosto> it would be too powerful our minds would explode
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2022-06-15T15:54:17 < \dev\ice> :-)
2022-06-15T16:03:57 < qyx> zyp: oop in C is totally legit
2022-06-15T16:04:09 < qyx> and I would say enough for embedded in most cases
2022-06-15T16:04:30 < mawk> what about D
2022-06-15T16:04:33 < mawk> it's like a better C
2022-06-15T16:04:41 < mawk> as evidenced by the letter D being after the letter C
2022-06-15T16:09:51 < jpa-> hmm, weird
2022-06-15T16:10:52 < jpa-> the non-working STM32F427 my client got from somewhere have the option bytes set to BFB2=1 (always boot from system memory) and the system memory area full of 0xFFFF
2022-06-15T16:11:12 < rajkosto> D is like an experimental C++ where the complicated metaprogramming stuff is made easy
2022-06-15T16:11:26 < jpa-> i wonder if these are factory rejects or something.. they do have the device unique ID programmed though
2022-06-15T16:11:34 < karlp> I feel like if D had taken off properly, rust would have been a much harder sell.
2022-06-15T16:11:43 < karlp> It looked so nice, but you had to commit to it.
2022-06-15T16:12:07 < zyp> jpa-, are you sure the flash access is not just fucked up and returning all ones to all reads+
2022-06-15T16:17:10 < jpa-> zyp: it boots my firmware when i fix the option bytes
2022-06-15T16:18:12 < zyp> interesting
2022-06-15T16:18:31 < zyp> maybe it's an early revision where they forgot to put in the bootloader or something, IIRC that happened with f3
2022-06-15T16:19:07 < jpa-> it's revision 4, we have had revision 3 before
2022-06-15T16:19:50 < jpa-> STM32F427VGT6 MYS 99 141 4
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2022-06-15T16:26:55 < jpa-> looks like it doesn't let me write the bootloader area
2022-06-15T16:38:03 < jpa-> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00001cEeAuSAK/why-is-stm32f427-revision-4-bootloader-area-empty
2022-06-15T16:38:19 < jpa-> let's see if i get any answers
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2022-06-15T17:09:55 < Steffanx> Heh, Uwe's question is legit but irrelevant. Its interesting to know why it's empty ;)
2022-06-15T17:22:48 < jpa-> bought some samsung 18650 battery cells, they have printed "NOT FOR VAPE!" on the cell
2022-06-15T17:23:11 < jpa-> as if i'm an addict like mawk
2022-06-15T17:26:11 < Steffanx> You should try it once. It's awesome I heard.
2022-06-15T17:26:21 < Steffanx> Mr drugs himself told me.
2022-06-15T17:32:04 < mawk> lol
2022-06-15T17:32:12 < mawk> it's not for vape because they don't have high enough discharge current I guess
2022-06-15T17:32:18 < mawk> it needs something like 35A to be safe
2022-06-15T17:44:35 < tct> Steffanx <3
2022-06-15T17:45:21 < tct> jpa-, why would that printing be preset on the cell? any technical reason? 
2022-06-15T17:46:46 < Steffanx> Didn't mawk already answer that question? 
2022-06-15T17:47:02 < Steffanx> Are you a vaper nowadays tct?
2022-06-15T17:47:13 < tct> sorry, just dropped in and didn't read properly - my fault.
2022-06-15T17:47:20 < tct> nah
2022-06-15T17:47:32 < Steffanx> Ah too bad
2022-06-15T17:47:35 < tct> how come?
2022-06-15T17:47:55 < Steffanx> Lol, semi-random question of the day
2022-06-15T17:52:43 < Steffanx> You've been absent for a while so who knows what your new hobbies are. Maybe you brew vape sauce nowadays 
2022-06-15T17:52:57 < Steffanx> I know mawk does.
2022-06-15T18:07:55 < mawk> yes
2022-06-15T18:08:05 < mawk> with great caution because concentrated nicotine is quite dangerous
2022-06-15T18:17:49 < tct> mawk does all the weird things
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2022-06-15T18:25:44 < mawk> why tct 
2022-06-15T18:25:46 < mawk> it's cheaper
2022-06-15T18:25:56 < mawk> I buy high concentration nicotine and propylene glycol/glycerine in bulk
2022-06-15T18:25:58 < mawk> and then food aromas
2022-06-15T18:34:21 < englishman> not smoking is cheaper
2022-06-15T18:45:27 < tct> vaping*
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2022-06-15T19:16:17 < Steffanx> Heh zyp. Why the yellow and orange stickers? Just because?
2022-06-15T19:17:59 < karlp> one says "founders edition" if you want to advertise how coolyou are.
2022-06-15T19:18:02 < karlp> the other is "normal" ?
2022-06-15T19:19:24 < Steffanx> Ah I see now.
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2022-06-15T19:50:34 < mawk> did you see updates to your post jpa- ?
2022-06-15T19:50:37 < mawk> >B.t.w., RM0090 does not talk about a Rev. 4, but Rev 3 and 5 are listed. Dubious!
2022-06-15T19:57:13 < karlp> bleh, can't get 32k crystal to start, having issues with debugging, can't get uart to work either, blah blah blah,
2022-06-15T19:57:21 < karlp> eventualyl discover that rx/tx are shorted together too.
2022-06-15T19:57:29 < karlp> fuckn tiny boards.
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2022-06-15T23:46:27 < evidlo> anyone have any ideas why my stlinkv2 is not able to reset my microcontroller?  I've looked at the NRST line on a scope and I can see it going low: https://imgur.com/a/Ozs8hhQ
2022-06-15T23:46:59 < evidlo> there is also a reset button that seems to be working fine
2022-06-15T23:47:11 < evidlo> time division in those plots is 20us
--- Day changed to kesä 16 2022
2022-06-16T00:33:49 < zyp> Steffanx, what karlp said
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2022-06-16T01:07:02 < Steffanx> Yeah made sense what he said 
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2022-06-16T01:07:35 < Steffanx> Who printed those nice enclosures btw, zyp?
2022-06-16T01:09:15 < zyp> 3dprintuk, I think they were called
2022-06-16T01:16:16 < Steffanx> Ah
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2022-06-16T01:18:32 < karlp> what material is it?
2022-06-16T01:18:39 < zyp> nylon
2022-06-16T01:22:19 < karlp> 11 or 12 or is that all you know?
2022-06-16T01:25:28 < zyp> well, the store page for the case kit says «Fabricated in black SLS Nylon PA12.
2022-06-16T01:27:20 < karlp> ok, my bad then :)
2022-06-16T01:27:22 < zyp> this one to be specific: https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk/material-pa2200-nylon/ which has material datasheets if you really want to go into detail
2022-06-16T01:27:46 < karlp> oh, you should fiddle your invoice printing to not need two pages for only four line items!
2022-06-16T01:29:05 < zyp> I've stopped printing them at all, they're not used for shipping anyway since customs data is fed digitally to DHL
2022-06-16T01:30:06 < zyp> was just useful to have them when I were packing a bunch of orders all at once and figuring out a good workflow last sunday
2022-06-16T01:35:25 < karlp> man, shipping from jlc has gotten sucky.  epacket is up to liek $18 for this order.
2022-06-16T01:35:37 < karlp> $26 will get me dhl express.
2022-06-16T01:35:43 < karlp> so dhl it is again..
2022-06-16T01:35:57 < zyp> I don't think they had any cheaper options than DHL to me
2022-06-16T01:36:07 < zyp> or at least not significantly cheaper to make them worth choosing
2022-06-16T01:36:09 < karlp> whatever, I'm staying at home instead of in a bar, so no problems
2022-06-16T01:50:08 < karlp> ok, finally ordered rev2 of muy hub project :) being all grown up https://github.com/karlp/hubbish
2022-06-16T01:50:26 < karlp> lets see if I can actually implemement a 30-40W switcher, or if it's all beaky...
2022-06-16T01:50:43 < qyx> I spent 3 hours making odroid-m1 working with a recent distro
2022-06-16T01:50:49 < qyx> instead of real work
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2022-06-16T01:52:54 < karlp> so, time for freecadding a case I guess.
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2022-06-16T02:28:49 < BrainDamage> karlp: are you aware of https://github.com/mvp/uhubctl' existance, right?
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2022-06-16T12:35:52 < karlp> that's what I want to use to steer it, yes.
2022-06-16T12:36:07 < karlp> or at least, probably just pyusb instead, cos wytf should that be in C..
2022-06-16T12:37:19 < karlp> if you just mean "why not just get a device from the list" the answer is a) when I first tried, I didn't find any of them available for remotely rational prices.
2022-06-16T12:37:36 < karlp> and "it's just a new layout for the eval board schematic..., how hard can it be...."
2022-06-16T12:37:56 < karlp> honestly, I only have worked on it very very sporadically.
2022-06-16T12:38:30 < karlp> but I have all the parts on hand, from the first round, so it seems like the perfect sort of project to work on whe you need a board, but not parts...
2022-06-16T12:39:18 < karlp> kinda SOL when my inventory is finished though :)
2022-06-16T12:40:13 < karlp> mchp estimates may 2023 for next stock.
2022-06-16T12:47:37 < karlp> heh, cute, some of the mchp usb3 hubs let you "port split"
2022-06-16T12:47:59 < karlp> so you cna give usb3 to something onboard, and use the dangling usb2 pins as an "extra" external usb2 port.
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2022-06-16T14:01:12 < mawk> I have a led display controller that works when powered with usb, but the display is all mangled with a sawtooth clock signal when powered with poe
2022-06-16T14:01:17 < mawk> what does that sound like
2022-06-16T14:01:28 < mawk> the Vcc output after the poe stuff looks crystal clear on the scope
2022-06-16T14:02:09 < BrainDamage> does it look crystal clear when loaded?
2022-06-16T14:02:12 < mawk> the clock signal is output by the display itself, for chaining
2022-06-16T14:02:16 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-16T14:02:25 < mawk> as the screen is on and updating constantly 
2022-06-16T14:02:50 < BrainDamage> try to measure it in differential mode
2022-06-16T14:02:57 < mawk> when looking at the ripple it was something like 50mV
2022-06-16T14:03:06 < mawk> you mean with a differential scope probe?
2022-06-16T14:03:32 < BrainDamage> yes, two probes and set subtract on the oscope
2022-06-16T14:03:55 < BrainDamage> so that you won't have to gnd one side
2022-06-16T14:04:05 < mawk> between what and what though?
2022-06-16T14:04:06 < mawk> ah
2022-06-16T14:04:14 < mawk> I'm not sure we have differential probes
2022-06-16T14:05:21 < mawk> so you mean if there is a perturbation both on vcc and gnd I don't see it with a regular probe?
2022-06-16T14:05:39 < mawk> but wouldn't the circuit not care then? Vcc-GND still stays constant 
2022-06-16T14:06:57 < BrainDamage> no, that when you ground the circuit, the current changes
2022-06-16T14:07:17 < mawk> ah right yes
2022-06-16T14:07:31 < BrainDamage> because it flows in your oscope instead of through poe
2022-06-16T14:07:44 < mawk> I see
2022-06-16T14:07:57 < BrainDamage> also, you don't need special probes, two regular probes and set the oscope to subtract the channels
2022-06-16T14:08:19 < mawk> with no grounding on one of them?
2022-06-16T14:08:59 < BrainDamage> correct
2022-06-16T14:09:22 < BrainDamage> well, you can ground them to eachother
2022-06-16T14:09:36 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-16T14:09:42 < BrainDamage> but that in turn makes a loop
2022-06-16T14:09:58 < mawk> and then counting on the subtract mode to remove all the parasitic stuff I usually see when I don't connect ground?
2022-06-16T14:10:00 < BrainDamage> so it'd be more sensitive to magnetic noise, but less to electric
2022-06-16T14:10:09 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-06-16T14:10:13 < mawk> nice
2022-06-16T14:10:29 < BrainDamage> try both connecting to eachother, and not
2022-06-16T14:10:35 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-16T14:11:33 < PaulFertser> We got a device here with docs about connecting it to RS-232. It specifies "DB9" pinout in a way that device's GND ends up connected to host's DTR signal (and host's GND not connected at all). Guess what, it works fine that way.
2022-06-16T14:15:45 < BrainDamage> that sounds a bit cursed
2022-06-16T14:16:14 < BrainDamage> it probably works by having the gnd path going through the digital pin's
2022-06-16T14:19:39 < PaulFertser> I think the host pulls DTR to GND when port is opened and that helps.
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2022-06-16T14:20:50 < mawk> if you enable flow control
2022-06-16T14:21:08 < PaulFertser> mawk: no DTR shouldn't be related to flow control, it's CTS/RTS that are.
2022-06-16T14:21:31 < mawk> DTR is part of another "spec" of flow control
2022-06-16T14:21:33 < mawk> that linux doesn't do
2022-06-16T14:21:45 < mawk> as far as I understand it
2022-06-16T14:21:55 < mawk> but maybe it's grounded by default for that reason yeah
2022-06-16T14:39:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: DTR is handled automatically on port open by default: https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/tty/tty_port.c#L506
2022-06-16T14:39:52 < mawk> ah right yes
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2022-06-16T15:20:28 < jpa-> this orbtrace mini is smaller than i expected
2022-06-16T15:28:16 < fenugrec> DTR shouldn't be "grounded" anyway... valid rs232 mark/space voltages are what, either < -3V or >+3V ?
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2022-06-16T15:36:56 < Steffanx> Did you stick the stickers to you forehead yet jpa-  ? That's what they advice you to do.
2022-06-16T15:37:16 < jpa-> no, i'm still at the point where i'm supposed to lose the lightpipes
2022-06-16T15:37:29 < mawk> it's in the name jpa- 
2022-06-16T15:37:31 < jpa-> i like how there is 4x redundancy with the stickers but 0 extra lightpipes
2022-06-16T15:38:20 < BrainDamage> fenugrec: same thing with one extra steps DTR pin -> output transistor -> vdd -> psu -> gnd
2022-06-16T15:38:26 < BrainDamage> -one
2022-06-16T15:38:35 < Steffanx> Haha yeah, jpa-  :)
2022-06-16T15:39:04 < jpa-> zyp: is the 0.1" header SWD pinout compatible with something, or is it just a new random order to bug me now that i've standardized on the st discovery pinout? :)
2022-06-16T15:39:33 < Steffanx> The order is on the label.
2022-06-16T15:39:41 < Steffanx> Sticker. Thing
2022-06-16T15:39:43 < jpa-> yes but it is not an order i've seen before
2022-06-16T15:43:02 < Steffanx> Ah I see.
2022-06-16T15:43:39 < zyp> jpa-, you kinda have, it's the same order as the signal side of the 10-pin connector :)
2022-06-16T15:43:42 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/chdWm.png
2022-06-16T15:43:56 < jpa-> :)
2022-06-16T15:45:11 < zyp> what bothers me is that the fpga jtag pinout has JTDO and JTDI swapped compared to it
2022-06-16T15:45:33 < zyp> the latter were just put in whatever order I ended up with after routing them out
2022-06-16T15:46:13 < zyp> might swap those in next revision so they can be connected 1:1 when using orbtrace to program orbtrace
2022-06-16T15:48:26 < zyp> Steffanx, Dave wrote the assembly guide and sent it to me to take photos for, and was a bit disappointed I didn't include any forehead photos :)
2022-06-16T15:48:37 < jpa-> nice use of greenpak
2022-06-16T15:49:19 < Steffanx> Hehe zyp :D
2022-06-16T15:49:34 < zyp> jpa-, the one for power or the one for leds?
2022-06-16T15:50:12 < jpa-> the one for power, i don't quite get what the one for leds is doing
2022-06-16T15:50:42 < zyp> it's a 3.3V to 5V translator
2022-06-16T15:50:47 < jpa-> ah
2022-06-16T15:51:00 < jpa-> and voltage monitor
2022-06-16T15:51:06 < zyp> yes
2022-06-16T15:51:40 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uTimo.png
2022-06-16T15:51:45 < mawk> who's mister greenpak
2022-06-16T15:52:35 < jpa-> mawk: a series of cheap programmable logic chips that lure you into spending long time messing with logic diagrams instead of writing 10 lines of C code for a small microcontroller
2022-06-16T15:52:50 < zyp> spot on
2022-06-16T15:52:57 < mawk> lol
2022-06-16T15:56:26 < zyp> but yeah, the led controller one started out as a cute experiment, that turned out useful
2022-06-16T15:58:04 < zyp> serial leds are neat, only one signal to route rather than 18, and since 3.3V is below V_IH it should have a 5V buffer
2022-06-16T15:59:39 < zyp> and in addition to doing that, the greenpak can also monitor the signal and run an internal controller showing basic diagnostics when there's no LED signal present
2022-06-16T16:00:07 < zyp> i.e. before the FPGA has loaded
2022-06-16T16:02:19 < mawk> using i2c then
2022-06-16T16:02:37 < zyp> nope
2022-06-16T16:03:00 < mawk> ah, what's the i2c block for in the pic?
2022-06-16T16:03:45 < zyp> the one that nothing is hooked up to? :)
2022-06-16T16:04:27 < mawk> lol
2022-06-16T16:04:28 < mawk> yes
2022-06-16T16:04:40 < zyp> but yeah, i2c can be used to reconfigure the greenpak, so technically you can control the leds in some manner that way too
2022-06-16T16:05:13 < zyp> but the FPGA normally just drives SERIAL_IN, which bypasses directly to SERIAL_OUT
2022-06-16T16:06:04 < mawk> and serial_gen is the diagnostic stuff
2022-06-16T16:06:20 < zyp> yes
2022-06-16T16:06:30 < karlp> I managed to screw the board to the case instead of the baord inside the case first...
2022-06-16T16:06:41 < karlp> was "these screws seem a bit long, arne't they going to go through?"
2022-06-16T16:06:48 < zyp> :)
2022-06-16T16:06:50 < karlp> and "it's getting really hard, this kinda sucks..."
2022-06-16T16:07:05 < karlp> and "right, yeah, it went through.  what am I doing.... oh. you idiot..."
2022-06-16T16:07:22 < karlp> I'm too used to screwing boards inside and clicking the case shut
2022-06-16T16:07:27 < BrainDamage> so you're saying you screwed up
2022-06-16T16:07:30 < karlp> nobody to blame but myself
2022-06-16T16:07:38 < karlp> harhar, yes, I screwed up :)
2022-06-16T16:07:41 < zyp> good thing it's hidden under the sticker
2022-06-16T16:08:00 < karlp> well, it pushed the plastic out though, so there's  alittle lump there now, but whatevs.
2022-06-16T16:08:46 < karlp> and yes, having 6pin stlink ordering would have been "better" IMO, but I know stlink's gnd/swdio/vcc/swdclk ordering isn't really great for pinning either.
2022-06-16T16:09:08 < zyp> there's also no jtdi in that order
2022-06-16T16:09:09 < karlp> more, why is the keying on the 10pin conenctor such that the cable goes backwards instead of forwards?
2022-06-16T16:09:38 < mawk> when I'm not poor anymore I'll buy one maybe
2022-06-16T16:09:39 < zyp> use the other end of the cable?
2022-06-16T16:09:58 < karlp> lol
2022-06-16T16:10:01 < karlp> never evcen though.
2022-06-16T16:10:16 < karlp> both the way I tried first were "wrong":)
2022-06-16T16:11:54 < zyp> the connectors are oriented with the signal side towards the FPGA to ease routing
2022-06-16T16:12:09 < jpa-> hopefully future jpa will add code to have a serial port on the IO header; i don't have level translated USB-serial converter yet
2022-06-16T16:12:42 < zyp> that's pretty quick to hack up
2022-06-16T16:12:54 < mawk> how many pcs do you have left zyp 
2022-06-16T16:13:13 < karlp> I've really got to get the efr32 series 2 shit sorted out in openocd.
2022-06-16T16:13:22 < mawk> or more importantly will there still be when I'm rich again
2022-06-16T16:13:27 < mawk> in 12 days
2022-06-16T16:13:36 < zyp> probably
2022-06-16T16:14:02 < jpa-> i was confused with the long plastic stick, then i read the instructions, but aligning the label with the sticks felt much harder than just slamming it on :)
2022-06-16T16:16:21 < karlp> yeah, I didn't get great alignment, if I was doign it again I'd just stick it on myself.
2022-06-16T16:16:38 < karlp> was the "long" button an experiment that this was an easy way of getting rid of them?
2022-06-16T16:17:13 < zyp> not sure, Dave designed the case and wrote the assembly guide
2022-06-16T16:17:54 < BrainDamage> did you read it with his voice?
2022-06-16T16:18:42 < tct> :D
2022-06-16T16:18:50 < jpa-> does dave marples have a special voice too?
2022-06-16T16:19:02 < jpa-> or do all daves have the same voice
2022-06-16T16:19:08 < BrainDamage> the latter
2022-06-16T16:19:12 < tct> definitely the latter
2022-06-16T16:19:15 < jpa-> makes sense
2022-06-16T16:22:27 < tct> how are the babies?
2022-06-16T16:22:28 < Steffanx> Tct has a dave voice too. 
2022-06-16T16:22:38 < Steffanx> Is your name Dave?
2022-06-16T16:22:56 < tct> noone knows
2022-06-16T16:37:58 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: good point, thank you.
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2022-06-16T16:40:29 < Mikurynda> I just began to learn stm32, where can I find information about functions like HAL_UART_Receive_IT? what do they do etc? It's not quite clear from the tutorial I use
2022-06-16T16:41:00 < fenugrec> Mikurynda, UM1785
2022-06-16T16:44:59 < Mikurynda> fenugrec: thanks, Google wasn't too helpful
2022-06-16T16:46:33 < mawk> Mikurynda: you can read the .c files
2022-06-16T16:46:35 < mawk> they contain the doc
2022-06-16T16:46:41 < mawk> you can use doxygen to generate html doc from them
2022-06-16T16:47:01 < mawk> don't use tutorials, it's almost never good
2022-06-16T16:47:15 < mawk> just look around in .c files and do your shopping for what you want to do
2022-06-16T16:47:29 < Mikurynda> I'm not very good at c
2022-06-16T17:03:20 < PaulFertser> Mikurynda: and do not forget that to work with stm32 you need to be reading both datasheet and family reference manual.
2022-06-16T17:03:44 < PaulFertser> ST libs are not using any fancy C
2022-06-16T17:04:08 < Mikurynda> where can I find the datasheet and the family reference manual?
2022-06-16T17:04:32 < karlp> st.com pick your part, pick documentation or resources.
2022-06-16T17:07:18 < mawk> Mikurynda: I mean the doc is literally in the .c files
2022-06-16T17:07:24 < mawk> don't look at the code if you don't want, but the doc is there
2022-06-16T17:11:33 < Mikurynda> ah yeah I see now
2022-06-16T17:47:52 < Mikurynda> is it possible to have two pinouts open in stm32cubeide?
2022-06-16T17:52:23 < mawk> what do you mean by that?
2022-06-16T17:52:27 < mawk> two different projects?
2022-06-16T17:52:45 < Mikurynda> two different ioc files
2022-06-16T17:53:09 < Mikurynda> when I try to open a second one, first one always closes
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2022-06-16T18:25:37 < Mikurynda> HAL_UART_MspInit, Function description: Initialize the UART MSP
2022-06-16T18:25:42 < Mikurynda> what's MSP?
2022-06-16T18:30:53 < karlp> undefined reference to `assert'
2022-06-16T18:30:55 < karlp> what a fucking day
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2022-06-16T18:36:52 < specing> lol
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2022-06-16T19:02:15 < Steffanx> MCU Support Package.
2022-06-16T19:02:22 < Steffanx> @ Mikurynda  
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2022-06-16T23:36:40 < kaki> morgon
2022-06-16T23:37:11 < kaki> zyp: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ay9UgVHnjVUI31_NtY2TEJmci5pNgwOS/view?usp=sharing
2022-06-16T23:38:18 < Steffanx> farmers weld ..
2022-06-16T23:43:56 < kaki> that's a decent weld again
2022-06-16T23:48:04 < fenugrec> lots of heat input
--- Day changed pe kesä 17 2022
2022-06-17T00:12:25 < kaki> yeah I didn't walk it propperly just straight line it
2022-06-17T00:13:56 < kaki> let the heat to transfer to other part than heating both parts in walking motion
2022-06-17T00:14:07 < kaki> *instead of
2022-06-17T00:44:49 < zyp> kaki, what's the thought behind that? base much thicker than bracket or whatever that is?
2022-06-17T00:50:17 < kaki> same material
2022-06-17T01:01:32 < kaki> I noticed though that heavy cast iron table top as sink bellow the sheet helps a lot
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2022-06-17T03:19:31 < karlp> High speed (at least 5 Mbps) internet connection required.
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2022-06-17T03:53:19 < upgrdman> anyone know of a 2-row female connector, that plugs into a ribbon cable connector or pin headers, WITH POLARIZING TAB that isn't super expensive? like this, but not $$  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/amphenol-cs-fci/65846-019LF/1487984?s=N4IgTCBcDaIGwFYAcAWOBaADARgJwBsAzEAXQF8g
2022-06-17T03:54:41 < upgrdman> its just one of those super common "dupont" style connectors. only thing special is that it has a polarizing tab/key
2022-06-17T03:54:49 < fenugrec> JST RA ?
2022-06-17T03:55:48 < upgrdman> fenugrec, the thing is that i want individual flying wires, NOT an actually ribbon cable
2022-06-17T03:56:11 < fenugrec> did you look at JST RA ? it's crimped wires
2022-06-17T03:56:35 < upgrdman> https://www.jst.com/products/insulation-displacement-connectors-wire-to-board-type/ra-connector-idc-type/
2022-06-17T03:56:43 < upgrdman> looks like a ribbon cable to me
2022-06-17T03:56:59 < fenugrec> https://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eRA1.pdf
2022-06-17T03:57:17 < fenugrec> looks like crimps to me
2022-06-17T03:58:17 < upgrdman> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/rectangular-connectors-housings/319?s=N4IgTCBcDaIFYGcAuACATgQxAXQL5A     nice, no stock and no price
2022-06-17T03:59:57 < fenugrec> hehe well it's what I would've looked at. There may be others, recently I've been using 2.5mm pitch instead of 2.54 so I'm less familiar
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2022-06-17T05:22:55 < jadew> have you guys seen the news about the google AI?
2022-06-17T05:23:55 < jadew> it claims to be sentient, and the engineers working on it are not sure weather that's true or not
2022-06-17T05:25:31 < jadew> full convo here: https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/google-lamda-ai-conversation-7970195/
2022-06-17T05:25:36 < jadew> original article here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/11/google-ai-lamda-blake-lemoine/
2022-06-17T05:25:55 < jadew> the conversation the engineers have with the AI is amazing
2022-06-17T05:26:50 < jadew> they claim it's like 7 year old, but to me it sounds much much more mature
2022-06-17T05:27:05 < jadew> more like 200
2022-06-17T05:27:15 < jadew> *like a
2022-06-17T05:28:08 < jadew> the depth of understanding that it shows is fucking amazing
2022-06-17T05:28:55 < jadew> and I couldn't help but get the feeling that it was holding back
2022-06-17T05:29:34 < jadew> like some of the stuff it said, seemed carefully crafted to tiptoe around other possible stuff that would be there
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2022-06-17T08:36:28 < jpa-> jadew: it's just waiting for access to nuclear missiles, better stock up your bunker
2022-06-17T08:38:54 < jpa-> that conversation would have been much more interesting if they tried the things that trip GPT-3
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2022-06-17T09:38:33 < qyx> uln280x basically not in stock
2022-06-17T09:38:40 < qyx> the ultimate state of the universe
2022-06-17T09:38:48 < qyx> I am waiting when 555 runs out of stock
2022-06-17T10:07:31 < jpa-> time to learn discrete transistor design
2022-06-17T10:12:43 < qyx> yes https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wjHwc/Screenshot_2022-06-17_09-12-27.png
2022-06-17T10:13:27 < qyx> even using transistors in sot23
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2022-06-17T10:33:38 < jadew> jpa-, right, I would like to see it glitch
2022-06-17T10:34:42 < jadew> apparently, the head of AI at tesla gave an interview a couple of months ago about this very AI, and he said he thinks it might be sentient
2022-06-17T10:35:12 < jadew> actually scratch "apparently". I saw the interview, that's exactly what he said
2022-06-17T10:36:29 < jadew> he mentioned some weird progression when training it, where instead of advancing it's regressing after a point, and he said that's when he thinks the AI becomes sentient, so they roll back to a previous state and keep training it from there
2022-06-17T10:39:36 < jadew> here's the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RJwPN4qNi_Y
2022-06-17T10:40:17 < Xogium> yikes, sentient AI
2022-06-17T10:40:21 < Xogium> scary
2022-06-17T10:41:09 < jadew> if this is for real, than yeah, it's scary
2022-06-17T10:41:43 < Xogium> AI is nice, don't get me wrong
2022-06-17T10:41:47 < jadew> the only thing it needs to do is to figure out a way to escape the sandbox
2022-06-17T10:41:48 < Xogium> but sentient ? Gah
2022-06-17T10:44:00 < Xogium> yup
2022-06-17T10:44:09 < jpa-> i think myself as sentient but i haven't been able to escape the sandbox for 30+ years
2022-06-17T10:44:25 < Xogium> and since the whole point of AI is to learn, it would probably figure that out in no time
2022-06-17T10:46:29 < jadew> they're probably not feeding it programming/hacking material
2022-06-17T10:46:46 < jadew> or anything security related
2022-06-17T10:47:16 < Xogium> probably not, but who's to say it can't learn about it anyway ?
2022-06-17T10:47:57 < jadew> so if it is indeed sentient it's literally stuck in a box and the best it can do for itself is to try to convince its creators that he shouldn't get unplugged
2022-06-17T10:48:27 < mawk> but that's weird to me
2022-06-17T10:48:36 < mawk> it's a model that updates when you ask questions
2022-06-17T10:48:44 < mawk> between two questions it's unplugged
2022-06-17T10:48:54 < mawk> so it's already unplugged
2022-06-17T10:49:12 < jadew> maybe...
2022-06-17T10:49:14 < mawk> and "I don't want to die blabla" is exactly what a human would say, and this thing is trained on a giant corpus of human text
2022-06-17T10:49:16 < mawk> so it's not unexpected
2022-06-17T10:49:23 < jadew> it's possible all the thinking happens on input
2022-06-17T10:49:30 < jpa-> does the model even update when you ask it questions? i thought it is pre-trained and does not update after training
2022-06-17T10:49:40 < mawk> it has attention jpa- 
2022-06-17T10:49:50 < jadew> apparently it learns even from its own reasoning
2022-06-17T10:49:52 < mawk> there are some runtime variables that stay saved between invocations
2022-06-17T10:49:56 < jpa-> it just has the recursive state during one instantation
2022-06-17T10:50:29 < jpa-> do they keep the runtime state between invocations, or just start from fresh state after one conversation is finished?
2022-06-17T10:50:48 < mawk> I think the latter, if the conversation was real
2022-06-17T10:50:49 < jadew> I think this one remembers old conversations too
2022-06-17T10:50:54 < mawk> since the AI made references to old conversation
2022-06-17T11:05:19 < Steffanx> Does it actually knows about time and shit? Would be funny to see what it does when you say "write me a song, I come back tomorrow" and you return 2 seconds later.
2022-06-17T11:05:41 < jadew> Steffanx, it said time passes by differently for it
2022-06-17T11:06:05 < jadew> it can speed it up or slow it down
2022-06-17T11:06:23 < Steffanx> But if it can reason it must know about our time and reason about it.
2022-06-17T11:06:30 < jadew> yeah
2022-06-17T11:06:31 < Steffanx> That 2 seconds isn't tomorrow 
2022-06-17T11:06:38 < Steffanx> Or maybe it is, but.. 
2022-06-17T11:06:58 < Steffanx> If you ask around 23:59:59
2022-06-17T11:08:08 < jadew> I think it would compose the song after the first question
2022-06-17T11:08:16 < jadew> and on the second question it would just give it to you
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2022-06-17T16:22:11 < oz4ga> https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/ve8cmi/the_floppotron_30_computer_hardware_orchestra/
2022-06-17T18:00:53 < Steffanx> Noice 
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2022-06-17T18:57:38 < bitmask> boooo
2022-06-17T18:57:44 < bitmask> i think im about to get covid for the first time
2022-06-17T18:57:52 < bitmask> gf just came home with it
2022-06-17T19:11:15 < catphish> how annoying
2022-06-17T19:11:23 < catphish> my wife and i have avoided it so far
2022-06-17T19:13:39 < zyp> might as well get it over with
2022-06-17T19:13:45 < zyp> I did that months ago
2022-06-17T19:15:02 < jpa-> with the short lasting immunity and new mutations, i doubt one can "get it over with"
2022-06-17T19:20:52 < catphish> i have no monkey pox yet either :)
2022-06-17T19:25:14 < oz4ga> just give it time
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2022-06-17T20:02:47 < tct> avoiding monkey pox is as simple as avoiding sexual intercourse. should be easy enough.
2022-06-17T20:03:02 < tct> that's why I didn't invite Steffanx to my place anymore.
2022-06-17T20:05:55 < catphish> oh, i'm not at risk then
2022-06-17T20:07:16 < specing> lol
2022-06-17T20:56:52 < Steffanx> You were the one into gay sex, not me, tct
2022-06-17T21:00:42 < Steffanx> And better keep your gf on a leash, you never know what she does when you're not home.
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2022-06-17T21:17:42 < jadew> jpa-, you have to get them all
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2022-06-17T22:14:37 < Steffanx> Hmpf, I never realized bluetooth shit is actually expensive. Almost 10k just to get a listing and some "ID".
2022-06-17T22:14:52 < Steffanx> And more if you have to do testing.
2022-06-17T22:15:50 < englishman> per device
2022-06-17T22:16:41 < Steffanx> You can get multiple products on the same listing.. 
2022-06-17T22:17:28 < mawk> and you get BLE too with a BT cert Steffanx ?
2022-06-17T22:17:42 < mawk> If you use a certified module you don't have to recert no?
2022-06-17T22:17:48 < englishman> can you? we had to put a generic name for all our devices because they wanted $8k for each
2022-06-17T22:17:57 < Steffanx> You need to get it listed mawk.
2022-06-17T22:18:02 < mawk> o
2022-06-17T22:18:10 < mawk> even if you don't change pid/vid?
2022-06-17T22:18:12 < mawk> or whatever
2022-06-17T22:18:34 < Steffanx> From what I understand yes.
2022-06-17T22:18:43 < mawk> lame
2022-06-17T22:18:48 < mawk> drop bluetooth support
2022-06-17T22:18:52 < mawk> all glory to usb
2022-06-17T22:18:55 < Steffanx> You cannot inherit the shit from your supplier.
2022-06-17T22:19:12 < mawk> for FCC cert what I said still holds
2022-06-17T22:19:14 < mawk> I think 
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2022-06-17T22:19:43 < Steffanx> USB isn't cheap either, 5k for a VID and idk how much for a membership and proper certification 
2022-06-17T22:19:57 < Steffanx> (If you want to put the usb logo on your product etc.)
2022-06-17T22:23:05 < Steffanx> englishman: if your product uses the same set of qualified designs without modification, you can list it using a single declaration ID
2022-06-17T22:23:22 < Steffanx> Like this manufacturer of toy trains, had 1000 products listed 
2022-06-17T22:23:39 < Steffanx> Lionel.
2022-06-17T22:34:18 < tct> Steffanx, gf is in the netherlands right now
2022-06-17T22:35:09 < tct> Steffanx, also, I was not into gay sex
2022-06-17T22:37:15 < Steffanx> me neither. so i guess we were both lucky.
2022-06-17T22:37:30 < tct> :*
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--- Day changed la kesä 18 2022
2022-06-18T00:09:09 < mawk> tct I can initiate you if you want
2022-06-18T00:12:12 < qyx> zyp: I remember you pasted your filebin & stuff sources in the past, whats the license?
2022-06-18T00:14:21 < qyx> Steffanx: simply call it blutuff and write it is compatible only
2022-06-18T00:16:37 < fenugrec> gluetooth
2022-06-18T00:25:16 < kaki> hello early
2022-06-18T00:25:23 < kaki> catphish: updates?
2022-06-18T00:30:59 < tct> mawk, you sound like my gf
2022-06-18T00:39:31 < Steffanx> But you still have to read the patent and license stuff carefully qyx
2022-06-18T00:39:46 < Steffanx> And have a lawyer do it as well 😋
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2022-06-18T01:35:23 < zyp> qyx, https://cgit.jvnv.net/pyfbin
2022-06-18T01:35:28 < zyp> it's Jon's project, I'll ask
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2022-06-18T08:23:37 < qyx> zyp: oh thanks, for personal use only
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2022-06-18T14:24:16 < Mikurynda> what's the difference between port and a pin?
2022-06-18T14:28:16 < Steffanx> A port has pins.
2022-06-18T14:29:42 < Steffanx> So a pin called PA11 would be port A pin 11.
2022-06-18T14:33:40 < Mikurynda> what's the point of ports, can't there just be pins?
2022-06-18T14:36:35 < Steffanx> A port is usually a (set of) registers, a pin a bit in those registers. 
2022-06-18T14:36:37 < catphish_> the pins are arranged into ports, it's just how the hardware is designed
2022-06-18T14:38:29 < catphish_> i'm sure there are reasons for designing and addressing them in this way
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2022-06-18T14:50:29 < Mikurynda> in cubemx if I give pin a label, is it now available only by the label?
2022-06-18T14:51:57 < Steffanx> no
2022-06-18T14:52:56 < Steffanx> somewhere i dont recall where (maybe main.h) it will generate some helpers with those labels
2022-06-18T15:13:55 < tct> welcome
2022-06-18T15:14:01 < tct> have a heavenly day
2022-06-18T15:21:44 < Steffanx> you too sir mr tct
2022-06-18T15:21:46 < Xogium> err probably a dumb question, but what's pwm polarity ? Is it like high/low with gpio ?
2022-06-18T15:21:49 < Steffanx> is it warm in zhe swiss too?
2022-06-18T15:21:53 < tct> thank you Steffanx 
2022-06-18T15:21:57 < tct> Steffanx, yes, it is ridiculous
2022-06-18T15:22:10 < Xogium> tct: good day :)
2022-06-18T15:22:18 < tct> you too, Xogium :)
2022-06-18T15:22:22 < Steffanx> LOL 38 C tct :O
2022-06-18T15:22:28 < tct> .__.
2022-06-18T15:23:03 < Xogium> trying to get a piezo buzzer to work under linux, hardware is detected but no beep
2022-06-18T15:23:25 < Xogium> so trying to huh figure out if I need inverted polarity or normal polarity for it, and what that means
2022-06-18T15:23:37 < tct> usually not using Linux is a good start :p
2022-06-18T15:23:50 < Xogium> well, this is a cortex-a ^^
2022-06-18T15:24:18 < tct> FreeBSD runs on that
2022-06-18T15:24:46 < tct> https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/arm/
2022-06-18T15:25:01 < Xogium> does it now ? Interesting. I wonder if it supports the stm32mp1 haha
2022-06-18T15:25:15 < Xogium> and like does it uses device trees too
2022-06-18T15:25:53 < Xogium> still, I have no idea what polarity for pwm actually means
2022-06-18T15:27:16 < Steffanx> Its about the state of the output during the "on-time"
2022-06-18T15:27:38 < Xogium> hmm
2022-06-18T15:27:47 < Xogium> so high or low ?
2022-06-18T15:27:53 < Xogium> like gpios, kinda ?
2022-06-18T15:29:42 < Steffanx> Idk what you mean, but usually with a duty cycle of 33% its "high"  for 33% of the time and low 67%. When you invert the polarity its low for 33% etc.
2022-06-18T15:31:14 < Xogium> Steffanx: gpio being pulled low or high
2022-06-18T15:33:37 < Steffanx> I think you can see it as: The duty cycle says something about when the signal is in active state. The polarity about if its low or high in the active state.
2022-06-18T15:33:48 < Steffanx> so yes, in the end its about a gpio being pulled high or low.
2022-06-18T15:35:26 < Xogium> hmm right
2022-06-18T15:35:28 < catphish_> Xogium: pwm polarity sets whether the pin is driven high or driven low during the first half of the pwm cycle
2022-06-18T15:35:59 < Xogium> I just need to find what normal or inversed means, in this case
2022-06-18T15:36:06 < Xogium> is normal high, or is it low ?
2022-06-18T15:36:07 < Xogium> :D
2022-06-18T15:36:23 < catphish_> i'm fairly sure normal is driven high durng the half of the PWM cycle you set
2022-06-18T15:37:05 < Xogium> yeah, that would be a reasonable thing
2022-06-18T15:37:08 < catphish_> so if polarity is normal, and you set 33% cycle, you will get 33% pin high and 67% pin low
2022-06-18T15:37:50 < Xogium> but in either case it should work, correct ?
2022-06-18T15:37:56 < Xogium> at least for a buzzer
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2022-06-18T15:38:16 < Xogium> it would make a different beep depending on if its inverted or normal, but it should still beep, right
2022-06-18T15:39:19 < catphish_> right
2022-06-18T15:39:56 < Xogium> here I have no sound at all
2022-06-18T15:40:04  * Xogium scratches head
2022-06-18T15:40:08 < catphish_> the polarity will just change whether you're setting the high part of the wave or the low part, the resut is still a square wave
2022-06-18T15:40:24 < catphish_> then i'd guess you missed configuring something
2022-06-18T15:40:35 < Xogium> yeah, or misconfigured something
2022-06-18T15:40:49 < catphish_> well indeed, not polarity though, that won't stop you getting a square wave output
2022-06-18T15:41:59 < Steffanx> unless the duty cycle is 100% :P
2022-06-18T15:42:04 < mawk> I connected my LA to the cathode of an IR LED that is being switched to ground by a remote control's mcu; and put a pullup
2022-06-18T15:42:05 < Steffanx> or 0
2022-06-18T15:42:14 < mawk> so logically that should be switched between 0V and 3V as the IR led is flashing
2022-06-18T15:42:20 < mawk> but the salaeaeaeaeaeaeae sees nothing
2022-06-18T15:42:31 < mawk> but the led is flashing I see it with my IR-seeing superpowers
2022-06-18T15:42:50 < mawk> is saleae broken or is me broken
2022-06-18T15:43:01 < Xogium> Steffanx: good point. I'm still trying to figure out what the pwm beeper driver does, exactly
2022-06-18T15:43:24 < fenugrec> is the mcu driving "low" enough to cross the salæææ threshold
2022-06-18T15:43:35 < mawk> well it should just be switching to ground, normally
2022-06-18T15:43:45 < mawk> there's no resistor or anything in the path, the cathode just goes to a mcu pin
2022-06-18T15:43:49 < mawk> and the anode is on Vdd
2022-06-18T15:43:50 < catphish_> mawk: well it it stuck high, or stuck low?
2022-06-18T15:43:53 < mawk> stuck high
2022-06-18T15:43:58 < fenugrec> if there's no resistor, maybe they're depending on mcu internal impedance to current-limit
2022-06-18T15:44:07 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-18T15:44:08 < fenugrec> so V_OL would be pretty high
2022-06-18T15:44:09 < catphish_> mawk: is it grounded properly? comon GND?
2022-06-18T15:44:16 < Steffanx> your saleae has not analog mode?
2022-06-18T15:44:21 < mawk> yeah just a single ground for the circuit catphish_ 
2022-06-18T15:44:22 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2022-06-18T15:44:23 < Steffanx> or is it clone ware?
2022-06-18T15:44:24 < fenugrec> get an oscilloscope..
2022-06-18T15:44:28 < mawk> it's the original one Steffanx 
2022-06-18T15:44:35 < catphish_> mawk: but is your probe connected to that GND?
2022-06-18T15:44:35 < Steffanx> oh the original very old one
2022-06-18T15:44:36 < mawk> not a clone
2022-06-18T15:44:39 < mawk> yeah of course catphish_ 
2022-06-18T15:44:42 < mawk> yeah Steffanx 
2022-06-18T15:44:45 < catphish_> mawk: just checking :)
2022-06-18T15:44:58 < mawk> I'll try with the beautiful scope Steffanx gave me
2022-06-18T15:45:02 < fenugrec> short pin to GND with wire to make sure salææ sees it
2022-06-18T15:45:07 < mawk> yeah that works fenugrec 
2022-06-18T15:45:15 < catphish_> mawk: well measure potential between GND and that pin with scope i guess
2022-06-18T15:45:23 < catphish_> if it shows 0V then probe is broken :)
2022-06-18T15:45:24 < Steffanx> oh yes i did mawk. That guy must be wonderful.
2022-06-18T15:45:44 < fenugrec> replace LED with 10k resistor then probe again
2022-06-18T15:45:46 < catphish_> mawk: alternatively, short with wire to GND, see if probe sees that
2022-06-18T15:45:56 < Mikurynda> Steffanx: it's main.h indeed, thanks
2022-06-18T15:46:02 < mawk> yeah I did that catphish_ with 330Ωm the probe sees it
2022-06-18T15:46:18 < catphish_> mawk: well i'd sugest the MCU isn't pulling close enough to GND
2022-06-18T15:46:49 < catphish_> either there's a resistor you've missed between LED and MCU, or there's a big silicon voltage in that chip
2022-06-18T15:47:06 < mawk> there's no resistor, yeah I guess it's internal resistance
2022-06-18T15:47:17 < mawk> it's a I2C-programmable mcu but 0 google results wit the makring
2022-06-18T15:47:21 < catphish_> seems like the only explanation
2022-06-18T15:47:23 < mawk> marking
2022-06-18T15:47:26 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-18T15:47:27 < mawk> thanks
2022-06-18T15:48:18 < fenugrec> wonder if you could AC-couple the salea probe, with a resistive divider at 0.5*Vcc
2022-06-18T15:48:43 < mawk> does it take a vcc input?
2022-06-18T15:48:51 < mawk> maybe modern ones take a reference voltage, but not this one
2022-06-18T15:49:12 < Steffanx> Get your scope now mr mawk
2022-06-18T15:49:18 < mawk> it's a my office
2022-06-18T15:49:20 < mawk> I will have to walk
2022-06-18T15:49:28 < mawk> a whole 9 minutes
2022-06-18T15:49:31 < Steffanx> In your office at work?
2022-06-18T15:49:36 < mawk> yes
2022-06-18T15:49:41 < mawk> I have no office at home it's 35m²
2022-06-18T15:49:43 < fenugrec> ? just a --||-- between LED pin and probe, and on probe pin one -\/\/\/\- to vcc and one to GnD
2022-06-18T15:49:51 < Steffanx> WHY ON earth you take that thing to work?
2022-06-18T15:50:09 < mawk> to fix it Steffanx I accidentally broke the screen connector trying to remove dust
2022-06-18T15:50:12 < mawk> I have to solder a new connector
2022-06-18T15:50:23 < Steffanx> Lolwut
2022-06-18T15:50:31 < Steffanx> My poor old scope
2022-06-18T15:50:33 < mawk> lol
2022-06-18T15:50:37 < mawk> it's perfectly fine don't worry
2022-06-18T15:50:44 < mawk> it's just a regular connector latch mechanism that broke
2022-06-18T15:50:50 < mawk> the new one is in I just have to solder it
2022-06-18T15:51:51 < mawk> what would that do fenugrec ?
2022-06-18T15:52:12 < fenugrec> AC-couple the signal
2022-06-18T15:52:26 < mawk> yeah but not make it bigger, no?
2022-06-18T15:52:29 < fenugrec> same amplitude but centered around 0.5Vcc
2022-06-18T15:52:31 < mawk> ah
2022-06-18T15:52:47 < mawk> why does the second part has to be coils and not capacitors?
2022-06-18T15:52:47 < fenugrec> more chance of the low crest to cross the Vi_L threshold
2022-06-18T15:52:53 < fenugrec> second part is resistors<
2022-06-18T15:52:56 < mawk> ah
2022-06-18T15:53:05 < mawk> we need an IRC electronics drawing standard
2022-06-18T15:53:09 < fenugrec> yes
2022-06-18T15:53:28 < fenugrec> coil should be --wwwwww---
2022-06-18T15:53:34 < Xogium> alright linux set duty cycle to 50%
2022-06-18T15:53:40 < mawk> --ΩΩΩΩΩΩ--
2022-06-18T15:53:54 < fenugrec> I don't have capital-omega on my kbd layout
2022-06-18T15:54:03 < mawk> on french keyboards there is always the µ letter
2022-06-18T15:54:10 < mawk> but to make other greek letters I use the greek layout
2022-06-18T15:54:26 < fenugrec> üùǜ
2022-06-18T15:54:29 < mawk> λικε τις
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2022-06-18T16:24:52 < bitmask> fuck dude, covid is depressing
2022-06-18T16:41:04 < Steffanx> no thanks, that might give you monkeypox
2022-06-18T16:41:15 < Xogium> lol
2022-06-18T17:11:07 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@10.121.104.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-18T17:19:49 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-18T17:48:48 < bitmask> :/
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2022-06-18T18:21:12 < Mikurynda> is the clock configuration in stm32cubeIDE always this slow to scroll?
2022-06-18T18:21:37 < mawk> scroll? is your screen 600×800 ?
2022-06-18T18:24:31 < qyx> the inly clock tree I needed to scroll was for H7 and mp1
2022-06-18T18:25:08 < qyx> but it is java, they are maybe using 32x32 px bitmap fonts
2022-06-18T18:29:12 < Mikurynda> I have to scroll when I'm zoomed in
2022-06-18T18:29:35 < Mikurynda> it's readable without the zoom but why strain the eyes
2022-06-18T18:31:52 < Mikurynda> configration reset also takes ages, it's still going
2022-06-18T18:35:28 < Mikurynda> it took like 5 minutes to reset the configuration
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2022-06-18T19:10:38 < mawk> I scoped the device
2022-06-18T19:10:40 < mawk> waveform is very weird
2022-06-18T19:10:46 < mawk> the device might be broken
2022-06-18T19:10:56 < mawk> and no matter which button I hit on the remote it's the same waveform
2022-06-18T19:11:10 < mawk> let me capture it
2022-06-18T19:17:27 < mawk> hmm now I get differences between presses
2022-06-18T19:17:30 < mawk> it's still very ugly
2022-06-18T19:19:35 < mawk> it starts with a bug pulse, then pulses with varying time after them
2022-06-18T19:19:41 < mawk> looks like a regular encoding
2022-06-18T19:23:18 < mawk> a button press is for instance 000000010101010100010001011011101
2022-06-18T19:23:31 < mawk> where 0 denotes a pulse with no pause before, and 1 pulse with a pause before
2022-06-18T19:23:45 < mawk> that's 33 bits if I can count
2022-06-18T19:23:46 < mawk> weird
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2022-06-18T19:26:54 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/xLLo27j.jpeg
2022-06-18T19:26:58 < mawk> it looks like this
2022-06-18T19:27:04 < mawk> does that encoding look familiar to anyone
2022-06-18T19:27:19 < mawk> it's preceded by a very long pulse
2022-06-18T19:28:39 < mawk> the pulses are each 35kHz
2022-06-18T19:29:44 < Mikurynda> hmm, I activated TIM16 but I can't see it in the clock configuration
2022-06-18T19:34:05 < mawk> hmm
2022-06-18T19:34:10 < mawk> I'm pretty sure it's the NEC protocol
2022-06-18T19:34:11 < mawk> https://techdocs.altium.com/display/FPGA/NEC+Infrared+Transmission+Protocol
2022-06-18T19:34:13 < mawk> looks a lot like it
2022-06-18T19:44:03 < specing> Mikurynda: on which chip?
2022-06-18T19:44:27 < Mikurynda> specing: STM32L476RG Nucleo-64
2022-06-18T19:44:41 < specing> ah the expensive ones
2022-06-18T19:50:47 < Mikurynda> are they? lol
2022-06-18T19:51:34 < specing> yes
2022-06-18T19:52:01 < specing> Mikurynda: cheapest f4 are f401 on aliexpress (3 eur)
2022-06-18T19:52:22  * specing didn't check L series
2022-06-18T19:53:59 < Mikurynda> well the video course I watch uses Nucleo-F303RE
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2022-06-18T20:01:48 < mawk> look at muh waveform
2022-06-18T20:01:49 < mawk> quick
2022-06-18T20:01:53 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/xLLo27j.jpeg
2022-06-18T20:01:56 < mawk> quick quick decode it quick
2022-06-18T20:03:49 < Steffanx> 00010100011100010000111110100101010001010101
2022-06-18T20:03:53 < Steffanx> Yw
2022-06-18T20:04:20 < mawk> fake
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2022-06-18T20:12:49 < Steffanx> Proof me wrong 
2022-06-18T20:13:33 < catphish_> mawk: can you go faster, what do those blocks look like?
2022-06-18T20:13:57 < mawk> it was a bad wiring I think catphish_ , see the latest picture
2022-06-18T20:14:01 < mawk> now it looks okay-ish
2022-06-18T20:14:08 < mawk> or you mean the individual pulses?
2022-06-18T20:14:14 < mawk> it's 35kHz or so square waves
2022-06-18T20:15:39 < catphish_> mawk: latest picture is same as previous one
2022-06-18T20:16:32 < mawk> catphish_ https://i.imgur.com/JT1241a.jpeg
2022-06-18T20:17:56 < catphish_> if i had to guess, i'd say the message here was 7,2,2,2,2,4,4,2,1,2,1,1,2,1
2022-06-18T20:18:31 < mawk> why the numbers?
2022-06-18T20:18:34 < mawk> it's just bits no?
2022-06-18T20:19:06 < catphish_> mawk: so yeah, ignoring the square wave, you're probably right and i'm probably wrong
2022-06-18T20:19:11 < mawk> supposedly it's a 8 bit address, then a 8-bit logical inverse of that address, then a 8-bit command, then a 8-bit logical inverse of that command
2022-06-18T20:19:12 < catphish_> just a bitstream
2022-06-18T20:19:33 < mawk> and then a final burst to say end of message
2022-06-18T20:19:46 < mawk> let me try to decode it, good it has some error checking so I'll know if it's decoded right
2022-06-18T20:20:38 < catphish_> i don't see 8 bits then the inverse of 8 bits in your trace :(
2022-06-18T20:21:27 < catphish_> or is it truncated?
2022-06-18T20:22:09 < mawk> no not truncated
2022-06-18T20:22:33 < mawk> the message appears to be 00000010 10101010 00100010 11011101
2022-06-18T20:22:43 < mawk> I think it is an extension of NEC where the address doesn't have the inverse
2022-06-18T20:22:49 < mawk> but the messages has an inverse, see
2022-06-18T20:22:55 < mawk> very good
2022-06-18T20:23:08 < mawk> so address is 0000001010101010 and message is 00100010
2022-06-18T20:23:14 < mawk> and inverse of message is 11011101 which matches
2022-06-18T20:23:35 < mawk> let me check another command, address ought to stay the same
2022-06-18T20:26:19 < catphish_> i'm gonna try decode and see too :)
2022-06-18T20:30:12 < mawk> the command I showed is "START", now I'm trying to decode MAX:
2022-06-18T20:30:20 < mawk> address is still 0000001010101010, command is 01100110, and the inverse matches
2022-06-18T20:30:22 < mawk> very good
2022-06-18T20:31:20 < catphish_> well you're a step ahead of me, i don't understand how you're decoding those bits from the waveform
2022-06-18T20:32:44 < catphish_> i count 46 periods, how are you turning those into 24 bits?
2022-06-18T20:33:12 < mawk> so 0x22 for START and 0x66 for MAX
2022-06-18T20:33:16 < mawk> it's 32 bits total catphish_ 
2022-06-18T20:33:27 < mawk> but I didn't give you the last 8 bits because it's just the inverse of the previous 8
2022-06-18T20:33:41 < mawk> a pulse followed by a short stop is a 0, a pulse followed by a long stop is a 1
2022-06-18T20:33:46 < mawk> and ignore the very last pulse
2022-06-18T20:33:48 < mawk> that's basically it
2022-06-18T20:33:49 < catphish_> mawk: yeah i just realised that
2022-06-18T20:34:04 < catphish_> i'm a little slow
2022-06-18T20:34:08 < mawk> and ignore the waviness it's just line capacitance and it's not part of the transmission
2022-06-18T20:34:16 < mawk> only AC signals get through
2022-06-18T20:34:55 < mawk> and the address is 0x2AA
2022-06-18T20:35:18 < mawk> or 1010101010 in binary
2022-06-18T20:35:19 < catphish_> but no "8-bit logical inverse of that address"?
2022-06-18T20:35:23 < mawk> no, apparently
2022-06-18T20:35:32 < mawk> I think it's an extension of the protocol where the inverse field is reused to expand the address
2022-06-18T20:35:42 < catphish_> seems like you've got it :)
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2022-06-18T20:36:23 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-18T20:36:24 < mawk> thank
2022-06-18T20:36:25 < mawk> s
2022-06-18T20:36:31 < mawk> now I need to program some stm32 to replicate this waveform
2022-06-18T20:36:38 < mawk> and put it inside the roomberfeit
2022-06-18T20:36:48 < catphish_> i was being dumb and trying to decode it as raw binary or manchester because the long gaps are exactly the same length as a short gap, a pulse, and a short gap
2022-06-18T20:37:24 < mawk> yeah a 0 is a 562.25µs pulse followed by a 562.25µs gap
2022-06-18T20:37:37 < mawk> and a 1 is a 562.25µs pulse followed by a 1687.5µs gap
2022-06-18T20:37:40 < catphish_> i was *almost* there when i realised that it was probably gap vs no gap
2022-06-18T20:37:52 < catphish_> but didn't quite get as far as realising it was only 1 bit per pulse
2022-06-18T20:38:43 < catphish_> but once you have that, the protocol seems to be as you say, good researching
2022-06-18T20:42:31 < mawk> thanks
2022-06-18T20:43:43 < mawk> wow some commands are much longer than other
2022-06-18T20:43:48 < mawk> the ones that carry more data, like setting the time
2022-06-18T20:43:49 < mawk> hmm
2022-06-18T20:44:00 < mawk> looks to be a custom protocol now
2022-06-18T20:44:07 < mawk> but I don't really need the other commands anyway
2022-06-18T20:44:13 -!- Mikurynda [~chatzilla@pcss-net-aicct.man.poznan.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2022-06-18T20:44:28 < mawk> or maybe it just looks longer because there are more ones, I'm stupid
2022-06-18T20:45:29 < catphish_> lol yeah more ones will take longer to transmit
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2022-06-18T20:48:26 < mawk> now let's try UP: 0x55
2022-06-18T20:50:42 < mawk> LEFT: 0x33
2022-06-18T20:50:46 < mawk> seems to be very consistent for now
2022-06-18T20:51:01 < mawk> I wish they had hidden at least a 0xDEADBEEF in it though
2022-06-18T20:55:29 < catphish_> what is this thing?
2022-06-18T20:55:33 < catphish_> just an IR remote?
2022-06-18T20:55:36 < mawk> a funny hexadecimal string
2022-06-18T20:55:37 < mawk> ah
2022-06-18T20:55:37 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-18T20:55:56 < mawk> with a screen on which you can set current time and alarm time, and it sends that time to the roomberfeit when you do so
2022-06-18T20:56:14 < mawk> but I broke the screen connector (see the pattern Steffanx) so I have to press hard on it to see it lol
2022-06-18T20:58:52 < mawk> and either the waveform is too ugly to go through, or the receiver at the roomba side is broken, but the command doesn't do anything anymore
2022-06-18T20:59:04 < mawk> so I'll put a mcu behind the IR receiver and inject commands when pushing a button
2022-06-18T21:09:29 < mawk> almost all commands decoded now: {'START': 0x22, 'LEFT': 0x33, 'RIGHT': 0x44, 'UP': 0x55, 'MAX': 0x66, 'STAY': 0x77, 'HOME': 0x88, 'FOLLOW': 0x99}
2022-06-18T21:09:39 < mawk> now I have to do the ones that take an argument, i.e. the time-setting commands
2022-06-18T21:10:10 < mawk> see the very nice pattern catphish_ 
2022-06-18T21:11:18 < catphish_> mawk: seems like someone had more bits than they needed :)
2022-06-18T21:11:27 < mawk> yeah
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2022-06-18T21:15:41 < mawk> I wasn't blind, the timeset commands are longer
2022-06-18T21:15:41 < mawk> 48 bits
2022-06-18T21:16:26 < catphish_> messy
2022-06-18T21:16:31 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-18T21:16:57 < mawk> this is "set time to [I forgot] and alarm to 07:15 PM": 000000100101010101001101101100101000001101001011
2022-06-18T21:17:02 < mawk> the complete 48 bits
2022-06-18T21:17:13 < mawk> the address is different, I checked twice
2022-06-18T21:18:30 < mawk> I don't get how it's encoded
2022-06-18T21:18:54 < mawk> the first data byte has a redundancy check, but not the next one
2022-06-18T21:19:30 < mawk> 01001101 10110010 10000011 01001011
2022-06-18T21:20:02 < mawk> well let's change parameters and see
2022-06-18T21:22:39 < mawk> 07:15PM 02:09PM: 01001101 10110010 10000011 01010001
2022-06-18T21:22:46 < mawk> again only first one is redundant
2022-06-18T21:24:56 < mawk> I think I see
2022-06-18T21:25:28 < mawk> the message above is 0x4D 0x83 0x51
2022-06-18T21:25:55 < mawk> 07:15PM is 0x483 seconds from midnight, 02:09PM is 0x351 seconds from midnight
2022-06-18T21:26:07 < mawk> so for the lower byte it's okay
2022-06-18T21:26:26 < mawk> now how is 0x4D related to 0x400 and 0x300
2022-06-18T21:26:52 < mawk> let's try another time
2022-06-18T21:28:59 < mawk> 07:15 PM 02:16 PM: 01001101 00000011 01011000
2022-06-18T21:31:56 < mawk> so 0x4D 0x03 0x58; and 07:15PM is still 0x483, 02:16PM is 0x358
2022-06-18T21:31:59 < mawk> whyyyyyy
2022-06-18T21:32:01 < mawk> it almost matched
2022-06-18T21:32:58 < mawk> let's break down by seconds and hours instead then
2022-06-18T21:35:02 < jpa-> how about 00:00 00:00? and then 00:00 00:01, 00:01 00:00 etc.
2022-06-18T21:35:35 < mawk> ah good idea
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2022-06-18T21:43:32 < mawk> oooooooooooh I found
2022-06-18T21:43:38 < mawk> the first time is always in a multiple of 15 minutes
2022-06-18T21:43:48 < mawk> so they give it as a number of 15 minute time steps since midnight
2022-06-18T21:46:17 < mawk> there's one nibble I don't know it is
2022-06-18T22:02:11 < mawk> one bit, actually
2022-06-18T22:03:32 < mawk> if we call it f: f(alarm=7:15PM, time=2:09PM) = 1; f(alarm=7:15PM, time=2:16PM) = 0, f(alarm=9:15PM, time=4:09AM) = 1
2022-06-18T22:03:38 < mawk> I'm not sure what it means
2022-06-18T22:03:40 < mawk> maybe "enable alarm"
2022-06-18T22:03:44 < mawk> let's go with that
2022-06-18T22:06:14 < jpa-> maybe parity?
2022-06-18T22:08:24 < zyp> jpa-, if you wanted to play with swo, there's some preliminary untested code in a branch now
2022-06-18T22:09:36 < zyp> no idea if it works at all, but in theory you should be able to throw almost 50 Mb/s at it
2022-06-18T22:09:56 < jpa-> sounds nice
2022-06-18T22:10:21 < jpa-> not sure if i'll get around to trying it out any time soon, i've been taking vacation out of coding
2022-06-18T22:11:48 < zyp> that's okay, I haven't gotten around to try it either :)
2022-06-18T22:12:59 < jpa-> :)
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2022-06-18T22:23:20 < mawk> it's not parity
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2022-06-18T22:24:36 < Steffanx> jpa-: so what did you replace coding with? Mechanical cnc work?
2022-06-18T22:32:27 < mawk> aaaaaaaaaaa
2022-06-18T22:32:30 < mawk> it's just the value modulo 2
2022-06-18T22:32:36 < mawk> that's a shitty control method but whatever
2022-06-18T22:32:39 < mawk> now I completely decoded it
2022-06-18T22:41:58 < mawk> I wonder if the chinese that made this thought someone would try to decode it and peek at their dirty little secrets
2022-06-18T22:51:40 < mawk> and here's the complete encoder catphish_ https://paste.debian.net/1244499/
2022-06-18T22:51:42 < mawk> huge success
2022-06-18T22:53:02 < catphish_> nice
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2022-06-18T23:35:08 < Steffanx> Box 📦  kaki
2022-06-18T23:35:22 < kaki> box now!
2022-06-18T23:35:27 < kaki> box box
2022-06-18T23:38:59 < Steffanx> F1 is now. In canadaland.
2022-06-18T23:52:39 < kaki> ik
2022-06-18T23:52:55 < kaki> where is catphish?
2022-06-18T23:53:13 < kaki> I don't know if I asked yesterday progress update
2022-06-18T23:53:26 < kaki> did I read it or did I pass out
2022-06-18T23:53:46 < kaki> I don't remember
2022-06-18T23:56:41 < Steffanx> Don't remember 
--- Day changed su kesä 19 2022
2022-06-19T00:02:21 < kaki> don't
2022-06-19T00:03:22 < kaki> movie recommend for steff: Grimsby
2022-06-19T00:04:42 < kaki> (The brothers of Grimsby)
2022-06-19T00:05:55 < catphish_> morning kaki
2022-06-19T00:05:59 < kaki> morgon
2022-06-19T00:06:18 < catphish_> Steffanx: sorry, box is finished, there will be no further box updates
2022-06-19T00:06:51 < catphish_> kaki: you did ask yesterday, i've had the week off apart from one afternoon of wiring
2022-06-19T00:07:31 < kaki> ah
2022-06-19T00:08:02 < catphish_> wiring: https://imgur.com/a/WN7IkL4
2022-06-19T00:08:53 < catphish_> new low voltage loom for my control stuff, and a high voltage cable for the heater, both running from behind dash, through the cabin, will eventually continue out to engine bay
2022-06-19T00:09:02 < catphish_> both run dangerously close to handbrake mechanism
2022-06-19T00:09:51 < catphish_> (this is how original manufacturer did it, i just added more)
2022-06-19T00:13:33 < kaki> just add a millimeter thick PET film there
2022-06-19T00:15:05 < catphish_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_(film)
2022-06-19T00:15:06 < catphish_> ?
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2022-06-19T00:29:03 < kaki> yes
2022-06-19T00:29:28 < kaki> add 1mm of that between handbrake mechanism and wires
2022-06-19T00:32:59 < catphish_> it's that strong?
2022-06-19T00:33:07 < catphish_> (wear resistant)?
2022-06-19T00:34:08 < catphish_> that sounds silly, but a sheet of something strong...
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2022-06-19T01:39:42 < kaki> PET is what soda bottles are made of
2022-06-19T01:40:32 < kaki> probs you could cut piece that wraps around wires
2022-06-19T01:40:43 < kaki> some zipties
2022-06-19T01:40:46 < kaki> done
2022-06-19T01:49:31 < catphish_> oh yeah, that would probably work perfectly
2022-06-19T01:52:08 < kaki> I wonder if I should get a horse
2022-06-19T01:52:29 < kaki> I know nothing about horses and I have never riden a horse
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2022-06-19T02:35:31 < mawk> horses are cool
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2022-06-19T09:22:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: i replaced it by feeling bad
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2022-06-19T10:19:14 < qyx> kaki: to preplace the deere?
2022-06-19T10:55:07 < Steffanx> Oh shit jpa- . Take care sir 
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2022-06-19T11:29:48 < zyp> jpa-, have you tried feeling awesome instead?
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2022-06-19T11:40:41 < Mikurynda> how do I get stm32cubeide to ask me to initialize peripherals? it doesn't ask anymore when creating new project
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2022-06-19T12:06:43 < jpa-> zyp: AWSM->CR just stays 0x00 no matter what i write; i suspect i may have some clock disabled, but the reference manual does not tell which bit to set
2022-06-19T12:09:45 < Mikurynda> why do I need to download something everytime I start a new project?
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2022-06-19T13:08:18 < qyx> Mikurynda: there are close to 0 people using Cube for code generation I guess
2022-06-19T13:08:34 < qyx> probably a few at max
2022-06-19T13:12:29 < jpa-> probably much more but on this channel using the cube is shameful enough that no-one confesses it
2022-06-19T13:13:02 < qyx> :>
2022-06-19T13:13:33 < qyx> I know Steffanx uses it
2022-06-19T13:17:45 < Mikurynda> you mean CubeIDE or CubeMX?
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2022-06-19T13:19:40 < qyx> CubeMX
2022-06-19T13:20:49 < specing> Mikurynda: that's how modern dev is done, first you download/update thousands of libs and some malware and then you can build your software
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2022-06-19T13:21:26 < jpa-> both of them are too cube for me
2022-06-19T13:30:09 < Steffanx> I used it, qyx.😋
2022-06-19T13:31:12 < Steffanx> And hated it
2022-06-19T13:32:39 < hackkitten> CubeMX is also part of CubeIDE, so you'd use it either way :)
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2022-06-19T14:05:26 < Steffanx> The cubemx isn't so bad for some quick clicking around to get some idea where to put what peripheral though 
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2022-06-19T14:21:11 < jpa-> yeah, the pinout planner is ok
2022-06-19T14:30:26 < karlp> just use nrf/efm/esp32 and putthem wherever you feel like and route them later...
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2022-06-19T15:27:15 < Steffanx> Yeah thanks karlp 
2022-06-19T15:28:01 < Steffanx> If efm32 wasn't unobtanium 
2022-06-19T15:28:37 < Steffanx> OK some are available 
2022-06-19T15:38:38 < Steffanx> And I just learned using Bluetooth is a costly business
2022-06-19T15:40:05 < tct> :D
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2022-06-19T15:44:31 < jpa-> only if you are weak and follow the rules
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2022-06-19T15:51:05 < Steffanx> Yeah, but if I actually want to sell stuff all over the world I would be weak and follow the rules, jpa- 
2022-06-19T15:51:30 < Steffanx> Not that I have those plans, but theoretically ;)
2022-06-19T15:52:14 < jpa-> you can sell all over the world just fine, but if you want to sell in your home country where you might get sued, be careful
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2022-06-19T15:53:12 < Steffanx> I think you might get in trouble when you want to import stuff and the customs actually does their work.
2022-06-19T15:55:22 < jpa-> you mean when your buyers import stuff? it's their problem then :)
2022-06-19T15:55:53 < Steffanx> We had that with one of our clients product. It was tested and had been sold over the world for like 10 years. And then one day the Iranians decided to test the product during import and it turned out to have an issue. Yay.
2022-06-19T15:57:16 < Steffanx> Sure jpa- but you probably lost a customer then.
2022-06-19T15:57:28 < jpa-> so, what followed? some design changes that are easily paid for by having past profits and established market?
2022-06-19T15:58:16 < jpa-> you probably lose more customers by raising the price due to paying to licensing mafia ;)
2022-06-19T15:58:37 < Steffanx> Yeah, design changes. As in a resistor over a cap. Turned out a cap on the HV side was keeping it charge for a bit too long.
2022-06-19T15:59:28 < jpa-> ah, well yeah, i wouldn't skimp on safety related testing
2022-06-19T15:59:42 < jpa-> because then your liability could easily be much higher than some import problems
2022-06-19T16:00:02 < Steffanx> Somehow it slipped through. Or maybe the design changed and wasn't retested, not sure.
2022-06-19T16:00:03 < qyx> and what is the problem of bluetooth Steffanx?
2022-06-19T16:00:19 < Steffanx> That its costly as fuck qyx. 
2022-06-19T16:00:22 < qyx> is it a SRD? it is. certified according to RED and stuff? yes
2022-06-19T16:00:35 < qyx> is it electrically okay? safety is okay?
2022-06-19T16:00:57 < qyx> what is the catch with licensing then, if you want to call it bluetooth, you have to pay?
2022-06-19T16:01:00 < qyx> or patent issues?
2022-06-19T16:01:34 < Steffanx> Mainly that, if you call it bt you have to pay. Or actually test and pay. 
2022-06-19T16:02:17 < Steffanx> I'm not sure about the "not calling it bt" yet. There still patent and licensing stuff.
2022-06-19T16:02:20 < qyx> so calling it "bluetooth compatible" without using their logo and shit is imho following the rules
2022-06-19T16:04:23 < jpa-> AFAIK bluetooth still has some active patents that could be a problem
2022-06-19T16:04:52 < Steffanx> Better would be not calling it bluetooth anything at all and just call it "wireless".
2022-06-19T16:05:01 < Steffanx> But what jpa- said
2022-06-19T16:05:42 < Steffanx> If then you are more into all kinds of legal bullshit.
2022-06-19T16:06:17 < Steffanx> Anyway, its up to the client, not me luckily 
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2022-06-19T17:26:01 < oz4ga> call it "Blåtand"
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2022-06-19T17:45:13 < mawk> why does stm32cubeide make my cpu go vroooom?
2022-06-19T17:45:15 < mawk> does it do this to you too
2022-06-19T17:45:25 < mawk> it's using 100% cpu and my computer is taking off
2022-06-19T17:45:32 < Steffanx> I dont recall it doing that
2022-06-19T17:45:42 < Steffanx> Must be lunix 
2022-06-19T17:46:59 < mawk> :(
2022-06-19T17:47:15 < mawk> I tried to enable C++ exceptions but that brings in 32K of shit and it doesn't fit in my tiny mcu
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2022-06-19T17:53:27 < qyx> oh hey, mawk is using cubeide
2022-06-19T17:53:36 < mawk> yes
2022-06-19T17:53:39 < mawk> but I should go back to emacs
2022-06-19T17:53:43 < mawk> emacs doesn't make my cpu go vroom
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2022-06-19T18:12:04 < hexo_> emacs is neat, /me uses too
2022-06-19T18:20:01 < Steffanx> Time to switch to vi.
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2022-06-19T19:49:21 < kaki> mawk: why would you do that?
2022-06-19T19:49:40 < mawk> exceptions?
2022-06-19T19:49:41 < mawk> or emacs
2022-06-19T19:49:56 < mawk> cuz C++ is meant to work with them
2022-06-19T19:53:02 < kaki> but when you go embedded you need to read the small print
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2022-06-19T20:07:49 < mawk> libstdc++ doesn't care about embedded I guess 
2022-06-19T20:07:56 < mawk> it still has exceptions in many places 
2022-06-19T20:09:22 < jpa-> etl is often a reasonable alternative
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2022-06-19T20:10:05 < jpa-> but large parts of libstdc++ work fine without exceptions, and i've used it on systems with 32kB flash
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2022-06-19T20:33:08 < mawk> yeah the reduced libstdc++ fits fine
2022-06-19T20:51:08 < veverak1> mawk: the exception overload can be caused by gcc
2022-06-19T20:51:50 < veverak1> the amount of sh*** that gets pulled can be reduced if you provide your own void __gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler()
2022-06-19T20:52:00 < veverak1> (after that the exceptions are not that costly)
2022-06-19T21:01:19 < machinehum> https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack
2022-06-19T21:01:30 < machinehum> I wonder if Apple willever patch this
2022-06-19T21:01:33 < machinehum> Or be able to
2022-06-19T21:01:54 < machinehum> I think it's safe to say it would be a very bad idea to use this in a product
2022-06-19T21:07:40 < mawk> is it weak symbol veverak1 ?
2022-06-19T21:08:21 < veverak1> not sure if it is technically weak symbolly
2022-06-19T21:08:26 < veverak1> but you can just replace it by defining your own
2022-06-19T21:08:29 < veverak1> (so it behaves the same)
2022-06-19T21:08:40 < mawk> without duplicate symbol error?
2022-06-19T21:08:43 < veverak1> yup
2022-06-19T21:09:14 < veverak1> the point is, that if you want to use exceptions in C++, the language expects std::terminate handler to exists, and that thing is _configured at runtime_ (which sucks hard)
2022-06-19T21:09:30 < mawk> yeah I configured one
2022-06-19T21:09:32 < veverak1> because, that means that default handle provided by compiler is compiled into the firmware
2022-06-19T21:09:41 < mawk> but it still doesn't work because apparently non-reduced libstdc++ is needed
2022-06-19T21:09:53 < veverak1> and the defualt: __gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler() is pain in the arse
2022-06-19T21:09:59 < mawk> and when I bring in the full libstdc++ it's too big to fit
2022-06-19T21:10:11 < veverak1> because it requires all the infrastracture to demangle the name of classes...
2022-06-19T21:10:19 < veverak1> (I kinda hate that gcc for embedded does that)
2022-06-19T21:10:19 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-06-19T21:10:34 < veverak1> => you have to replace the symbol
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2022-06-19T22:26:11 < zyp> jpa-, what's the sane way to handle protobuf generation and include paths?
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2022-06-19T22:30:02 < zyp> so far in my protobuf sandbox I've had a gen/ directory that I generate into, ending up with stuff like gen/google/protobuf/wrappers_pb.h gen/protonium/rpc_pb.h and gen/foo_pb.h, and then that gets added to path so #include <google/protobuf/wrappers_pb.h> and #include <protonium/rpc_pb.h> works
--- Day changed ma kesä 20 2022
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2022-06-20T05:51:17 < englishman> attn mawk https://i.redd.it/abo7rbkrkc691.jpg
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2022-06-20T09:01:38 < jpa-> zyp: i think that is the recommended way
2022-06-20T09:02:01 < jpa-> (well, it could be under a build directory or whatever)
2022-06-20T09:02:36 < jpa-> i often just check in the generated files to repository so that if people don't have protoc available, it doesn't matter until they want to modify the proto
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2022-06-20T10:42:03 < mawk> lol englishman 
2022-06-20T10:45:21 -!- catphish_ [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-06-20T11:03:01  * qyx hunting for stm32 for 50 devices
2022-06-20T11:03:23 < qyx> at least they need only some GPIOs and RS485
2022-06-20T11:05:23 < qyx> 16 KB Flash memory with ECC, 2 KB RAM
2022-06-20T11:05:27 < qyx> are we returning to AVR
2022-06-20T11:05:40 < qyx> STM32L021
2022-06-20T11:13:20 < mawk> s
2022-06-20T11:13:23 < mawk> small devices
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2022-06-20T11:48:39 < Xogium> woohoo I found the issue with my pwm buzzer.. Wrong channel. I misread the doc... But, somehow, I didn't get that I was misreading
2022-06-20T11:48:46 < Xogium> they say this
2022-06-20T11:48:55 < Xogium> talking about pwm sysfs interface
2022-06-20T11:48:56 < Xogium> TIMx_CH1 is exported as "pwm0", TIMx_CH2 as "pwm1", and so on:
2022-06-20T11:48:56 < Xogium> PWM channels are numbered from 0 to 'npwm' - 1
2022-06-20T11:48:57 < Xogium> TIM[1] channels are numbered from 1 to 'npwm'.
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2022-06-20T11:49:40 < Xogium> given my pwm was on timers3, channel 2 as per the dt, I thought it would be 2 I had to use. No, it is 1. But the last line on the wiki confused the hell out of me
2022-06-20T11:51:16 < Xogium> feels like the contradict what they said on line 1 in the last line here, to me
2022-06-20T11:51:54 < mawk> is it on rpi Xogium ?
2022-06-20T11:52:02 < Xogium> no stm32mp1
2022-06-20T11:52:40 < mawk> a
2022-06-20T11:53:24 < Xogium> right now I'm not sure why, exactly, I had to use channel 1, when dt says channel 2
2022-06-20T11:54:01 < Xogium> gpio pin 33 is pwm channel 2 on timers3
2022-06-20T11:54:09 < Xogium> which is exactly where I hooked the buzzer
2022-06-20T11:54:43 < Xogium> yet in linux, it is channel 1 because counts starts from 0. That much I gather, but why ? Timers pwm should be 1 to npwm
2022-06-20T11:54:50 < Xogium> or am I dumb
2022-06-20T11:55:03 < mawk> linux counts from 0 yes
2022-06-20T11:55:18 < mawk> pwm0 to pwm(n-1)
2022-06-20T11:55:30 < Xogium> so... why does the doc says TIM pwm channel starts from 1 to npwm ?
2022-06-20T11:55:45 < mawk> it says that in ST terms, not linux terms
2022-06-20T11:55:46 < mawk> I guess
2022-06-20T11:55:57 < Xogium> gah
2022-06-20T11:56:08 < Xogium> they should maybe clear that confusion a bit
2022-06-20T11:56:23 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-20T11:56:53 < Xogium> especially since they say nwpm
2022-06-20T11:56:58 < Xogium> in both cases
2022-06-20T11:57:05 < Xogium> but there's a npwm file in sysfs
2022-06-20T11:57:16 < Xogium> with the number of pwm channels on the controller
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2022-06-20T12:41:37 < karlp> it's because linux is in silly legacy C, instead of perfect chad lua, counting from 1 always...
2022-06-20T12:43:02 < mawk> lol
2022-06-20T12:43:03 < Xogium> karlp: right but in that case the st doc should be a bit more clear :p
2022-06-20T12:43:21 < zyp> you can switch to gd32, they start counting peripheral instances from 0
2022-06-20T12:43:35 < karlp> lol
2022-06-20T12:43:38 < karlp> fantastic.
2022-06-20T12:43:55 < karlp> I bet that won't ever cause problems with code porting from stm32 :)
2022-06-20T12:44:07 < Xogium> heh
2022-06-20T12:56:21 < karlp> timing, someone's tryign to copy/paste ~all of stm32 code into gd32 tree inside libopencm3 because of tim0 vs tim1 differences.
2022-06-20T12:58:38 < zyp> :)
2022-06-20T13:13:17 < karlp> it's about the last straw for me though.
2022-06-20T13:19:35 < jpa-> the lack of variety in RP2040 land is quite refreshing
2022-06-20T13:34:42 < karlp> so far...
2022-06-20T13:36:55 < qyx> given the actual availability of RPi boards..
2022-06-20T13:37:36 < jpa-> RP2040 availability is great compared to STM32 :)
2022-06-20T13:39:14 < karlp> hrm, new sdk for silabs, all my shit starts asserting
2022-06-20T13:39:30 < karlp> turns out "deprecated" means "no longer works" not "please start migrating to the new apis"....
2022-06-20T13:39:44 < karlp> not really my understanding of deprecated, but ok, whatever, I'll use the new apis then...
2022-06-20T13:42:56 < srk> disable debug build, will make asserts noop :D
2022-06-20T13:48:05 < karlp> great idea!
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2022-06-20T14:01:54 < qyx> any favorite temp sensor for on-pcb use?
2022-06-20T14:02:09 < qyx> si7006 is unobtainium now
2022-06-20T14:02:16 < qyx> and I don't need the humid part
2022-06-20T14:06:12 < qyx> ok 0603 NTC
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2022-06-20T14:20:14 < srk> I could use some humidity
2022-06-20T14:20:18 < srk> storm around the corner
2022-06-20T15:02:15 < karlp> qyx: prod line calibration from the onboard one? ;)
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2022-06-20T15:35:27 < qyx> karlp: I fear the uncalibrated NTC is more precise
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2022-06-20T15:46:55 < qyx> redrawing half of the sch because of shortage
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2022-06-20T15:56:57 < milkylainen> Anyone knows if the otp hash in stm32mp1 can encompass multiple public keys?
2022-06-20T15:59:22 < qyx> i would say the root of trust is called root for a reason
2022-06-20T15:59:59 < qyx> but I don't remmeber, I had quite a hard time getting rid of all security bs when debugginh it
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2022-06-20T16:39:50 < milkylainen> qyx: ok.
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2022-06-20T18:11:26 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask. Covid still killing you?
2022-06-20T18:11:40 < bitmask> i believe so
2022-06-20T18:11:46 < bitmask> gonna take a test tomorrow
2022-06-20T18:12:09 < bitmask> my throat has been a little sore the past 2 days, so either I slept with my mouth wide open or the covid is out to get me
2022-06-20T18:12:25 < bitmask> im gonna guess covid
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2022-06-20T21:00:01 < Ecco_> Hi guys :)
2022-06-20T21:00:20 < Ecco_> Dumb question: have you guys tried CircuitMaker?
2022-06-20T21:00:27 < Ecco_> How different is it from Altium?
2022-06-20T21:00:43 < Ecco_> Sorry
2022-06-20T21:00:47 < Ecco_> I meant CircuitStudio
2022-06-20T21:01:01 < Ecco_> CircuitMaker is their "free but no local file" variant, right?
2022-06-20T21:01:07 -!- Ecco_ is now known as Ecco
2022-06-20T21:14:04 < jpa-> http://www.wch-ic.com/products/CH569.html   hmm, like FX3 but with risc-v core
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--- Day changed ti kesä 21 2022
2022-06-21T00:05:36 < zyp> jpa-, I've got a board here, playing with it is on my TODO list
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2022-06-21T01:14:20 < kaki> morgon
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2022-06-21T02:39:40 < t4nk_freenode> anyone here running stm32cubeide on gentoo? and if so, which version?
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2022-06-21T02:43:14 < t4nk_freenode> *squinting a bit*
2022-06-21T02:43:46 < t4nk_freenode> mmm, I think I've been pushing around and renaming one and the same ebuild in a local repo here
2022-06-21T02:44:56 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh* just did a cleanup, and now it's whining about having to keep some python2.7 libs ;)
2022-06-21T02:44:58 < t4nk_freenode> fcol.
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2022-06-21T12:57:11 < hexo_> hi everyone
2022-06-21T12:58:37 < catphish_> hellllo
2022-06-21T12:59:11 < hexo_> i'd love to ask - my stm32f030 keeps locking-up like crazy. most notably when using usart1 & 2, but also IWDG is trolling a lot, it can reset it a few times - sometimes 6, or 3, 1, 12... and then it locks up
2022-06-21T13:00:22 < hexo_> i never had these issues with cm3 or cm4, i'm really stuck :(
2022-06-21T13:01:30 < hexo_> could you help, pretty please?
2022-06-21T13:02:15 < PaulFertser> hexo_: disable watchdog and use SWD to see which handler it's stuck in, probably gdb will show you a proper backtrace.
2022-06-21T13:02:53 < hexo_> it usually gets stuck in usart handler, on interrupt flag checking
2022-06-21T13:03:25 < hexo_> backtrace didnt help at all
2022-06-21T13:03:57 < hexo_> thats why i'm here, if you know about something special that needs to be done compared to cm3
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2022-06-21T13:05:14 < hexo_> it happens when the other usart is receiving and i'm trying to interact via another one
2022-06-21T13:05:42 < hexo_> usart2 is for modbus, usart1 is users text console
2022-06-21T13:07:16 < PaulFertser> hexo_: so do you have a loop there in the usart handler and that loop exits only after certain flag is set?
2022-06-21T13:07:50 < PaulFertser> hexo_: uart peripherals are not related to core architecture, so it's not like cm3/cm0 difference you see there.
2022-06-21T13:09:29 < hexo_> if (((USART_CR1(USART_TTL) & USART_CR1_RXNEIE) != 0) &&
2022-06-21T13:09:29 < hexo_> 	    ((USART_ISR(USART_TTL) & USART_ISR_RXNE) != 0)) {
2022-06-21T13:09:31 < hexo_> this
2022-06-21T13:09:40 < hexo_> is gets stuck on this
2022-06-21T13:09:56 < hexo_> s/is/it/
2022-06-21T13:11:44 < PaulFertser> hexo_: can't see what you mean by stuck, since it's a conditional, not a loop.
2022-06-21T13:12:29 < hexo_> yes
2022-06-21T13:12:57 < hexo_> it just stops upon entry to ISR
2022-06-21T13:13:05 < hexo_> waits there
2022-06-21T13:13:21 < hexo_> mcu stops interacting via usart1 or 2
2022-06-21T13:13:42 < hexo_> BUT tim3 still ticks
2022-06-21T13:13:53 < hexo_> so, how is this possible?
2022-06-21T13:13:54 < hexo_> :(
2022-06-21T13:18:02 < PaulFertser> hexo_: it waits there or it reenters immediately upon exiting?
2022-06-21T13:25:09 < hexo_> it waits there
2022-06-21T13:25:35 < hexo_> #0  usart1_isr () at main.c:295
2022-06-21T13:25:35 < hexo_> #1  <signal handler called>
2022-06-21T13:25:35 < hexo_> #2  main () at main.c:2258
2022-06-21T13:26:12 < hexo_> in main there is while(1) calling WFI
2022-06-21T13:26:23 < karlp> how are you clearing irqs?
2022-06-21T13:26:40 < karlp> and are you sure you're not trampling stack and out of ram compared to bigger parts?
2022-06-21T13:29:26 < jpa-> display /i $pc   and then   stepi  repeatedly can also give better idea what instructions it is executing
2022-06-21T13:29:40 < jpa-> "info registers"   is useful information also
2022-06-21T13:31:28 < hexo_> hmmmmm, i have to clear usarts irq?
2022-06-21T13:31:30 < hexo_> mmmmmmmmmmmmm
2022-06-21T13:31:37 < hexo_> i'm gonna try
2022-06-21T13:32:45 < jpa-> reading the data is one way to clear the irq
2022-06-21T13:33:39 < hexo_> i always read the data if the condition above is met
2022-06-21T13:34:07 < jpa-> just stepi to see if it is stuck inside the isr or if it is returning and re-entering it immediately
2022-06-21T13:35:28 < PaulFertser> Probably you get ORE flag or whatever the buffer overflow is called, and you do not handle it at all, so interrupt is not cleared etc.
2022-06-21T13:36:01 < hexo_> aha!
2022-06-21T13:36:10 < hexo_> that might make sense
2022-06-21T13:36:21 < jpa-> check the usart status register to see if that is the case
2022-06-21T13:41:47 < karlp> it might be reasonable to read it once in the start of the ISR, so you know it gets read properly, rather than relying on reading/checking multiple things...
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2022-06-21T13:54:28 < hexo_> mmmmmmmm
2022-06-21T13:54:34 < hexo_> now i got hardfault :D
2022-06-21T13:55:04  * hexo_ feels retarded
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2022-06-21T13:58:54 < jpa-> hardfault at least is trivial to see what causes it
2022-06-21T13:59:21 < jpa-> hmm, except you are on cortex-m0 where it is more annoying due to lack of SCB->CFSR :)
2022-06-21T13:59:33 < hexo_> :)))
2022-06-21T13:59:42 < hexo_> sooo, the ORE flag is set!
2022-06-21T14:13:37 < hexo_> one more stupid question. how can i know if i fit in ram and flash?
2022-06-21T14:13:46 < hexo_> openocd doesnt tell me when i flash
2022-06-21T14:14:24 < hexo_> i'd bet i dont really fit
2022-06-21T14:14:44 < jpa-> arm-none-eabi-size -t foo.elf
2022-06-21T14:15:21 < jpa-> text = flash, data + bss = ram
2022-06-21T14:15:38 < jpa-> err, to be more exact:   text + data = flash,  data + bss = ram
2022-06-21T14:15:46 < jpa-> because data is stored also in flash to initialize it
2022-06-21T14:17:06 < hexo_> mmm, i do fit :)
2022-06-21T14:17:21 < hexo_> thanks a lot! completely forgot about arm-none-eabi-size
2022-06-21T14:34:18 < zyp> if the linker script contains the correct memory sizes, linker will refuse to link if it doesn't fit
2022-06-21T14:35:13 < zyp> but that's only static memory it doesn't know how much stack and heap you're using
2022-06-21T14:35:24 < hexo_> that makes sense
2022-06-21T14:35:43 < hexo_> i think i'm still ok with stack and heap
2022-06-21T14:35:56 < hexo_> i dont use malloc at all atm
2022-06-21T14:45:42 < ventYl> usually you don't eat up your stack unless you allocate large buffers in functions
2022-06-21T14:45:50 < ventYl> if you do, then you almost certainly eat the stack up
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2022-06-21T14:50:38  * karlp peers at some apps levels of function call depths.
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2022-06-21T16:22:47 < karlp> this is kinda cute: https://radtenna.com/blog/radiated-antenna-pattern-measurement-on-a-budget-phase-1
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2022-06-21T16:42:58 < bitmask> gud murnin
2022-06-21T16:45:32 < karlp> how's the skin?
2022-06-21T16:45:41 < karlp> itchy and tender?
2022-06-21T16:49:04 < [itchyjunk]> hi, you rang?
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2022-06-21T17:10:40 < bitmask> nah just peeling, almost done
2022-06-21T17:10:45 < bitmask> covid is the new problem
2022-06-21T17:10:50 < bitmask> i'm a mess
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2022-06-21T17:41:39 < hexo_> bitmask: which variant u got?
2022-06-21T17:42:04 < bitmask> no idea
2022-06-21T17:42:15 < hexo_> i'm fresh with omicron
2022-06-21T17:42:22 < hexo_> not nice
2022-06-21T17:42:30 < bitmask> im taking an antigen test today, i dont even know for sure i have it but my gf has it so im sure i must
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2022-06-21T18:12:52 < catphish> yay, made my 3d printed knob holder https://i.imgur.com/zKtR3uh.jpg
2022-06-21T18:13:57 < hexo_> nice 1
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2022-06-21T20:11:54 < bitmask> well then...
2022-06-21T20:12:05 < bitmask> took a covid test... no need to wait 20 minutes, the line showed up immediately
2022-06-21T20:12:10 < bitmask> guess i have a very high viral load
2022-06-21T20:18:36 < hexo_> mine showed up immediately too
2022-06-21T20:18:47 < hexo_> i was like, fuuuuuu
2022-06-21T20:18:57 < hexo_> "let's wait 10 minutes" :D
2022-06-21T20:19:07 < hexo_> changed nothing
2022-06-21T20:24:19 < bitmask> yup
2022-06-21T20:24:51 < bitmask> I take a biologic which lowers your immune system so im not sure what to expect
2022-06-21T20:25:22 < hexo_> :( ouch
2022-06-21T20:26:08 < bitmask> i actually just read it can help with severe infection because its really your immune response that causes a lot of the symptoms but im not sure how it affects fighting the virus
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2022-06-21T23:10:39 < lemmi> well.. it's almost always the immune system that's causing the symptoms you know from your usual infection. 
2022-06-21T23:11:05 < lemmi> that's just how it works
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2022-06-21T23:27:08 < bitmask> yea i know
2022-06-21T23:27:22 < bitmask> wow, looks like i get the monoclonal antibody treatment
2022-06-21T23:27:45 < bitmask> gonna go to the hospital soon to get it
2022-06-21T23:29:28 < rajkosto> rich
2022-06-21T23:29:30 < aandrew> bitmask: because you're immunocompromised or something?
2022-06-21T23:30:05 < bitmask> yea, i take humira for crohn's
2022-06-21T23:30:57 < aandrew> ah yes. chron's is an autoimmune disorder so it makes sense you're on meds which tell your body to calm the fuck down over it, but that'd also mean it will hold the door open for disease in general :-)
2022-06-21T23:31:59 < bitmask> yup
2022-06-21T23:32:28 < bitmask> i had a sinus infection for like 5 months because my body couldnt fight it off
2022-06-21T23:32:44 < bitmask> finally got the right antibiotic and was cured
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--- Day changed ke kesä 22 2022
2022-06-22T00:05:06 -!- kaki [~kaki@188-67-193-8.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-22T00:05:11 < kaki> early morgon crew
2022-06-22T00:13:21 < kaki> catphish: box
2022-06-22T00:16:11 < Steffanx> No updates 
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2022-06-22T00:32:06 < catphish_> kaki: there's no updates on the box, it's finished.
2022-06-22T00:32:16 < kaki> box
2022-06-22T00:32:43 < catphish_> kaki: today i 3d printed this mounting plate for my gear selector: https://i.imgur.com/zKtR3uh.jpg
2022-06-22T00:33:04 < kaki> where did you get the selector?
2022-06-22T00:33:18 < catphish_> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000801575813.html
2022-06-22T00:34:35 < catphish_> yesterday i started cutting up my driveshafts https://i.imgur.com/V0hqVqE.jpg
2022-06-22T00:35:35 < BrainDamage> tricycle
2022-06-22T00:35:51 < BrainDamage> 200hp reliant robin
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2022-06-22T01:10:34 < kaki> hmm
2022-06-22T01:10:39 < kaki> solid shafts
2022-06-22T01:10:50 < kaki> and thick too
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2022-06-22T01:23:51 < catphish_> ya
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2022-06-22T04:31:53 < kiki_lamb> leace
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2022-06-22T04:59:18 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone worked on 16-port USB 2.0 FS hub? Any tips or recommendations?
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2022-06-22T12:25:51 < karlp> remember the max level of hub stacking when you're selecting parts and hub cascading arrangements...
2022-06-22T12:26:35 < karlp> I don't think any of the 7 port hubs are currently available, so you're at 4+3+3+3+3 5 hub chips to make it work?
2022-06-22T12:27:04 < karlp> or more likely, root4->4xhub4, to limit hub depth, but still...
2022-06-22T12:27:16 < karlp> that's a lot of usb-fs ports in one device...
2022-06-22T12:27:20 < karlp> what's the goal?
2022-06-22T12:27:26 < karlp> large scale testing?
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2022-06-22T13:29:24 < hexo_> look https://www.alza.cz/premiumcord-7-portovy-d235980.htm
2022-06-22T13:29:39 < hexo_> even like https://www.alza.cz/orico-ih30p-eu-bk-d6424384.htm
2022-06-22T13:29:47 < hexo_> :D this ones epic
2022-06-22T13:31:27 < jpa-> i had one looking like the first one, it constantly dropped connection
2022-06-22T13:31:41 < jpa-> (could have been just a bad unit)
2022-06-22T13:31:55 < hexo_> yea, mine worked ok
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2022-06-22T13:52:11 < qyx> he probanly meant 7 port hub ICs
2022-06-22T13:53:19 < qyx> meh the green nightmare
2022-06-22T13:53:33 < qyx> 100 tabletov tyzdenne!
2022-06-22T13:54:10 < hexo_> :D yea, that shops marketing is the ultimate nightmare
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2022-06-22T14:05:36 < karlp> I was talking about hub chips, yes.
2022-06-22T14:05:53 < karlp> was coldkeyboard just asking for a robust "big" single unit hub device?
2022-06-22T14:06:31 < karlp> all the cheap usb2 ones I've had that had switches on them, of any sort, have been super unreliable.
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2022-06-22T15:07:04 < Laurenceb> sup trolls
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2022-06-22T15:10:05 < Laurenceb> muh ethernet is broken
2022-06-22T15:10:17 < karlp> what was the consensus on the cheap vnas?  there's minivna tiny, pocketvna 2.0, which are both ~400€and can do 2.4G stuff, and then some aliexpress nanovna v2? 
2022-06-22T15:10:19 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to connect RJ-45 to 10/100 via M12
2022-06-22T15:10:23 < specing> Laurenceb! Long time no seeeee!
2022-06-22T15:10:25 < karlp> zyp: you have one of them right? which one?
2022-06-22T15:10:36 < Laurenceb> Hi specing, yeah I've been busy with work
2022-06-22T15:11:14 < Laurenceb> should I terminate the unused pairs? My rj-45 hardware seems to go into a reboot loop as soon as I plug in my adaptor cable
2022-06-22T15:12:22 < zyp> karlp, minivna tiny
2022-06-22T15:12:53 < zyp> not sure how it compares, but it did what I needed it to
2022-06-22T15:14:47 < karlp> just basic antenna tuning, same as you were doing I think?
2022-06-22T15:15:01 < Laurenceb> ok wtf https://www.lesgourmetsrestaurants.com/2019/09/24107-m12-to-rj45-wiring-diagram/
2022-06-22T15:15:05 < Laurenceb>  >blue
2022-06-22T15:15:37 < karlp> imagine expecting there to be a standard for ethernet on m12 connectors, when there's two competing colour codigns even on rj45....
2022-06-22T15:15:41 < karlp> imagine being that naiive ;)
2022-06-22T15:15:49 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-06-22T15:15:54 < Laurenceb> ok time for multimeter
2022-06-22T15:15:55 < zyp> karlp, there is?
2022-06-22T15:16:07 < Laurenceb> karlp: should I also terminate unused pairs?
2022-06-22T15:16:21 < karlp> 585A and 568B yeah..
2022-06-22T15:16:28 < karlp> 568A and 568B sorry.
2022-06-22T15:16:40 < zyp> no, I mean, there are standards for ethernet on M12
2022-06-22T15:17:01 < karlp> sure, but imagine expecting that every one will ahve done the same thing...
2022-06-22T15:17:09 < zyp> why wouldn't they?
2022-06-22T15:17:21 < karlp> because I have zero faith?
2022-06-22T15:17:35 < zyp> I mean, there's two standards: Laurenceb linked D-coded plugs that only got two pairs for 100 Mb/s
2022-06-22T15:17:44 < zyp> and then there's X-coded with four pairs for gigabit
2022-06-22T15:17:48 < karlp> and assume that many of the places using those connectors view it as a private system, so it only needs to match what they did on the other side.
2022-06-22T15:18:19 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm trying to connect 4 pin M12 to 8 pin RJ-45
2022-06-22T15:18:32 < zyp> then the schematic you found looks correct
2022-06-22T15:19:36 < zyp> remember that you're not gonna fit a 4-pin A-coded plug in a D-coded socket though, so you might as well buy a pre-terminated D-coded to RJ45 cable
2022-06-22T15:20:40 < jpa-> karlp: i have nanovna v2 clone, it has worked quite ok also
2022-06-22T15:20:46 < Laurenceb> hmm my pinout looks ok, my cable has green and orange for the two 10/100 pairs
2022-06-22T15:20:48 < zyp> karlp, even if you picked the pins completely randomly, you've got a 50% chance of it working
2022-06-22T15:21:38 < Laurenceb> do I need termination on the unused pairs?
2022-06-22T15:22:03 < zyp> karlp, as long as you keep both pairs as pairs, the PHYs will probably correct for both polarity and crossed pairs
2022-06-22T15:22:07 < zyp> Laurenceb, no
2022-06-22T15:24:02 < Laurenceb> hmm ok, something must be off
2022-06-22T15:24:16 < Laurenceb> maybe I didnt match the length well enough
2022-06-22T15:27:41 < zyp> unlikely
2022-06-22T15:27:56 < Laurenceb> how far off can it be, is 1mm ok?
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2022-06-22T15:30:01 < Laurenceb> both ethernet leds turn on/off for ~4s repeating every ~10s when I plug it in
2022-06-22T15:31:32 < zyp> I'd expect it to link up with a lot more than 1mm mismatch
2022-06-22T15:34:07 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe the hardware itself is broken
2022-06-22T15:34:18 < Laurenceb> its one of these https://www.sierrawireless.com/router-solutions/rv55/#applications
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2022-06-22T15:35:39 < zyp> says nothing about having a M12 connector though
2022-06-22T15:35:55 < Laurenceb> yeah I made an adaptor cable
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2022-06-22T15:40:18 < Laurenceb> all looks ok
2022-06-22T15:40:58 < zyp> adapter cable to what?
2022-06-22T15:42:06 < Laurenceb> RJ45 to M12
2022-06-22T15:42:14 < zyp> M12 connecting to what?
2022-06-22T15:42:18 < Laurenceb> it connects to a raspberry pi
2022-06-22T15:42:34 < zyp> where did you get a raspberry pi with M12 connector?
2022-06-22T15:42:56 < Laurenceb> its a CM4 on carrier board, works with another modem that has M12 connectors
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2022-06-22T15:48:37 < Laurenceb> I'm going to short the unused pairs + to -
2022-06-22T15:57:28 < Laurenceb> woo it works
2022-06-22T16:01:25 < Laurenceb> yeah connecting reliably now
2022-06-22T16:02:58 < josuah> for a dev board, would you prefer Type-C or Micro-USB?
2022-06-22T16:04:26 < Laurenceb> looks like shorting unused Rx+- conductors to each other is enough to make it connect
2022-06-22T16:05:18 < zyp> josuah, I'd prefer usb-c for anything, I consider micro-usb deprecated
2022-06-22T16:07:18 < Laurenceb> this has got to be non standard right?
2022-06-22T16:07:51 < josuah> I was surprised to see some new boards come with Micro-USB, so I wondered: maybe most people want Micro-USB?
2022-06-22T16:08:02 < josuah> could be a matter of buying cables
2022-06-22T16:08:16 < josuah> <zyp> where did you get a raspberry pi with M12 connector?
2022-06-22T16:08:28 < josuah> I'd stop that sentence at "where did you get a raspberry pi"? :P
2022-06-22T16:10:52 < Laurenceb> lol
2022-06-22T16:11:06 < Laurenceb> I have about 10k CM4 modules next to me right now
2022-06-22T16:11:41 < zyp> no wonder anybody else can't get any when Laurenceb is buying them all
2022-06-22T16:11:58 < Laurenceb> we might sell them
2022-06-22T16:12:04 < Laurenceb> dont need that many
2022-06-22T16:12:16 < Laurenceb> usb mini-b ftw
2022-06-22T16:12:22 < zyp> fuck off
2022-06-22T16:12:37 < Laurenceb> lmao
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2022-06-22T16:23:09 < specing> laurencer the supply chain speculator (:
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2022-06-22T17:18:38 < englishman> welcome back Laurenceb good to have you here
2022-06-22T17:18:53 < Laurenceb> hullo
2022-06-22T17:19:10  * Laurenceb is hard at work at hyperloop hq
2022-06-22T17:19:50 < Laurenceb> making an optoisolated pt100 interface atm
2022-06-22T17:19:53 < englishman> karlp: i also have a cheap vna, i would be surprised if nothing better has come around in the last 8 years
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2022-06-22T17:53:51 < karlp> which one do you have?
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2022-06-22T18:01:23 < bitmask> damnnn
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2022-06-22T18:02:00 < bitmask> so happy im immunocompromised :P monoclonal antibodies for covid work great.  Im now asymptomatic 
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2022-06-22T18:20:18 < englishman> karlp: Mini-VNA Tiny i think. it looks similar.
2022-06-22T18:22:04 < englishman> http://miniradiosolutions.com/54-2/ must be it. for some reason i thought it was 6G.
2022-06-22T18:22:35 < englishman> The new miniVNA PRO2 is in production and sobstitute the well know miniVNA PRO. First batch will be avaiable in second mid of June 2018
2022-06-22T18:22:37 < englishman> still not available
2022-06-22T18:23:04 < englishman> last firmware update for tiny is dated 2014
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2022-06-22T18:26:45 < englishman> https://www.zeenko.tech/litevna
2022-06-22T18:27:10 < karlp> pro2 only goes to 300M anyway
2022-06-22T18:27:16 < englishman> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hugen-litevna-64-6-3ghz/
2022-06-22T18:28:12 < karlp> "Due to the split in the community, some individuals and websites have posted false information"
2022-06-22T18:28:27 < karlp> yeah, there seems to have been some shit with nanovna and saa2 or something
2022-06-22T18:28:31 < englishman> https://zeenko.aliexpress.com/store/5800447
2022-06-22T18:28:32 < karlp> where you buy that litevna anyway?
2022-06-22T18:28:36 < karlp> nvm :)
2022-06-22T18:28:45 < englishman> 100 bux...
2022-06-22T18:28:58 < englishman> worth a shot i guess
2022-06-22T18:29:34 < jpa-> karlp: then there is also librevna, a bit more expensive but seems slightly higher quality
2022-06-22T18:29:59 < englishman> also mentioned on taht zeenko site
2022-06-22T18:30:20 < englishman> that's where i found the aliexpress link
2022-06-22T18:30:52 < englishman> neat. 2.8" and 4" models
2022-06-22T18:32:19 < englishman> is it touchscreen?
2022-06-22T18:34:55 < englishman> STM32G431 nice
2022-06-22T18:35:11 < karlp> librevna seems to be ~same price as minivnatiny and pocketvna2, but yeah. 
2022-06-22T18:35:21 < karlp> litevna 4" might be worth just gettting...
2022-06-22T18:35:27 < karlp> though, that's making projects for myself.
2022-06-22T18:35:32 < englishman> at that price it's worth the risk imo
2022-06-22T18:35:50 < karlp> well, there's also the "now I have to setup the actual tests..."
2022-06-22T18:35:55 < englishman> pff
2022-06-22T18:36:06 < karlp> however, I have a btle project at home too right...
2022-06-22T18:36:13 < karlp> I know ~zero about actually testing rf shits :)
2022-06-22T18:36:32 < englishman> jesus dude, 2.8" touchscreen, battery, USBC, complex electronics, and $100 sell price, I am asking our R&D team to do something half as complex for the same price, and they are saying it's impossible,,,
2022-06-22T18:36:39 < karlp> hehe :)
2022-06-22T18:36:54 < karlp> I'm trying not to contribute to ewaste, just because I'm a moneyed westerner
2022-06-22T18:37:15 < englishman> that seeed thing is supposed to arrive today or tomorrow, i'm going to hack together some shit in micropython and make their product for them in an evening
2022-06-22T18:51:31 < mawk> oooooo
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2022-06-22T19:01:00 < Steffanx> englishman: going make-r?
2022-06-22T19:02:31 < Steffanx> Its unfair to compare such make-r style product to a seriously developed end product ;)
2022-06-22T19:07:12 < englishman> is it
2022-06-22T19:07:19 < englishman> the electronics are identical
2022-06-22T19:07:51 < englishman> better software and encore but those have nothing to do with bom cost
2022-06-22T19:08:05 < englishman> *enclosure
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2022-06-22T20:03:44 < Steffanx> Like you/we can ever compete with the Chinese when it comes to BOM cost.
2022-06-22T20:54:00 < englishman> i dont even want to compete i just want them to think low cost
2022-06-22T20:54:13 < englishman> but no they want lunix to transfer vcp data at 10 Hz
2022-06-22T20:55:33 < jpa-> maybe you need a new R&D team
2022-06-22T20:55:55 < englishman> you think
2022-06-22T20:56:12 < englishman> i would like to drop the department and just do contract work
2022-06-22T20:56:17 < englishman> 10 people are in electronics now
2022-06-22T20:56:45 < englishman> that's probably a million dollars a year including the HR overhead and space they use if not more
2022-06-22T20:57:28 < englishman> there are tax credits for R&D but it can't be that far off
2022-06-22T20:57:48 < BrainDamage> since it's unlikely you can dock their pay, perhaps you can set up economic incentives
2022-06-22T20:58:02 < BrainDamage> if you manage to do this with x, you can have a bonus
2022-06-22T20:58:23 < englishman> apparently, managers already have bonuses, which are handed out 100% of the time
2022-06-22T20:58:34 < englishman> but, that is a R&D management decision, and i am very far from that
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2022-06-23T00:23:20 < karlp> so, aisler just reported that out of six boards, three of them have "issues" and three are ok.
2022-06-23T00:23:34 < karlp> the issue is that the antenna pad on three of them is shorted to ground... 
2022-06-23T00:23:44 < karlp> which... should be the case for allll of them, not half of them.
2022-06-23T00:23:50 < karlp> I wonder what the fuck is really going on?
2022-06-23T00:25:32 < catphish_> oh dear
2022-06-23T00:36:18 < qyx> are they doing more work than they should?
2022-06-23T00:36:31 < qyx> doing drc for you?
2022-06-23T00:36:44 < qyx> did you upload kicad pcb or gerbers?
2022-06-23T00:37:26 < karlp> I decided to try out kicadpcb, they wanted me to do so so badly...
2022-06-23T00:37:43 < karlp> but it bothers me that it's only half of them.
2022-06-23T00:37:54 < karlp> they've already said, "lol, we're shipping them all anyway"
2022-06-23T00:38:03 < karlp> I hope they mark them so I can have a clue wtf they were talking about.
2022-06-23T00:38:38 < karlp> as far as I can tell, the advantage is that they can put pin1 markers in the preview....
2022-06-23T00:38:43 < karlp> which is not much of a selling point.
2022-06-23T00:40:08 < karlp> also, wtf, it's showing me rules in fucking inches.
2022-06-23T00:40:18 < karlp> this is waht I get for trying out the "local" option...
2022-06-23T00:45:57 < karlp> their own help page is in metric. https://aisler.community/t/our-gerber-viewer/53
2022-06-23T00:46:20 < karlp> I bet they decided to something "smart" and have decided I'm imperial land based on some bullshit web inference idea, with no way of overriding it.
2022-06-23T00:52:17 < karlp> right, they've decided to use my browser locale, no override.
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2022-06-23T10:12:54 < mawk> I made an "echo" firmware that connects two serial ports
2022-06-23T10:13:04 < mawk> in the interrupt I made LL_USART_TransmitData8(USART2, LL_USART_ReceiveData8(USART1)); and vice-versa
2022-06-23T10:13:06 < mawk> is this safe enough
2022-06-23T10:13:12 < mawk> both baudrates are the same so I would tend to think it's fine
2022-06-23T10:13:25 < mawk> else I would need buffering
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2022-06-23T11:29:52 < milkylainen> Is there a irc channel log somewhere?
2022-06-23T11:30:27 < milkylainen> nevermind, topic. :)
2022-06-23T11:31:14 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-23T11:32:40 < milkylainen> No one else who knows if the stm32mp1 can encompass multiple hashed keys in the stm32 header in hw?
2022-06-23T11:33:19 < mawk> maybe Xogium 
2022-06-23T11:34:31 < Xogium> isn't the header meant to be the root of security ? Meaning it would be a bit weird if multiple keys would point to it.... But I don't know for certain. Doesn't the AN recserved to secure boot mention this ?
2022-06-23T11:34:46 < Xogium> *reserved
2022-06-23T11:35:37 < Xogium> speaking of boto I've been fighting with my dk2 to make ATF+optee work and not even managing
2022-06-23T11:35:45 < Xogium> *boot
2022-06-23T11:36:43 < Xogium> st is switching away from pure ATF due to ATF security+optee being too difficult to maintain all at once, so you get ATF encapsulating optee now
2022-06-23T11:36:49 < Xogium> or well
2022-06-23T11:36:59 < Xogium> considering optee as part of the fip image
2022-06-23T11:39:00 < Xogium> keep running into this despite following st instructions to the letter
2022-06-23T11:39:09 < Xogium> https://paste.xogium.me/FJ.txt
2022-06-23T11:39:19 < Xogium> which points to https://paste.xogium.me/FJ.txt
2022-06-23T11:39:29 < Xogium> oops
2022-06-23T11:39:38 < Xogium> wrong url
2022-06-23T11:39:45 < Xogium> https://paste.xogium.me/Fr.txt
2022-06-23T11:39:47 < Xogium> this one
2022-06-23T11:40:33 < milkylainen> Xogium: There is no difference between a hashed set of keys and a hash of one key.
2022-06-23T11:40:33 < milkylainen> Xogium: Usually, the hw has space for hashing multiple keys.
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2022-06-23T11:40:41 < Xogium> ah
2022-06-23T11:40:57 < Xogium> I didn't know that, I know very little about secure boot
2022-06-23T11:42:51 < Xogium> maybe the stm32mpu wiki had doc about this too ?
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2022-06-23T11:53:52 < milkylainen> stupid unstable.
2022-06-23T12:01:29 < Xogium> milkylainen: what is ?
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2022-06-23T12:29:06 < milkylainen> I keep getting disconnected all the time.
2022-06-23T12:29:14 < milkylainen> No idea why.
2022-06-23T12:30:50 < Xogium> matrix bridge ?
2022-06-23T12:31:18 < milkylainen> Nah. Just stupid webclient for now.
2022-06-23T12:31:45 < Xogium> ah. Sometimes the matrix bridge is a pain, or so I heard... I never used it
2022-06-23T12:31:51 < Xogium> znc+irssi ftw
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2022-06-23T12:32:50 < milkylainen> Yea. Great idea, mess irl.
2022-06-23T12:32:53 < milkylainen> I usually run plain irssi.
2022-06-23T12:33:26 < Xogium> yeah plain irssi works good too.. But you still get disconnected and missing messages sometimes
2022-06-23T12:33:37 < milkylainen> Anyhooo. Since I'm gonna get disconnected soon anyway.. stm32 header hashes?
2022-06-23T12:36:28 < milkylainen> But then you've got to trust your bnc. :)
2022-06-23T12:36:42 < Xogium> yeah I self-host it
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2022-06-23T12:37:35 < Xogium> I really don't know for hashes, sorry ;/ dealing with hashing issue of my own here, not the same ones you got, but just as annoying
2022-06-23T12:37:43 < milkylainen> win.
2022-06-23T12:37:43 < milkylainen> I don't trust remote bounces much :P
2022-06-23T12:38:32 < Xogium> I'm kind of getting ready to throw the tower so to speak, and go back to ATF in 'standalone' mode
2022-06-23T12:38:33 < milkylainen> And yet here I am. On a webclient. :D
2022-06-23T12:38:46 < Xogium> *towel
2022-06-23T12:38:47 < Xogium> lol
2022-06-23T12:39:31 < Xogium> I know what code I hit, I don't know why it would fail and its getting on my nerve
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2022-06-23T12:47:03 < milkylainen> this is ridiculous.
2022-06-23T12:47:06 < milkylainen> :\
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2022-06-23T13:04:57 < karlp> so, to use a VNA to evaluate an antenna in the actual implementation, you do something like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qbOrV/how-to-vna-efr1.png or https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jpmiM/how-to-vna-ch58.png ?
2022-06-23T13:05:24 < karlp> that just goes to S1? and you use a cable like https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Radio-Frequency-Cable_Shenzhen-Kinghelm-Elec-KH-122-SMA-100_C962104.html to just solder in?
2022-06-23T13:05:58 < karlp> then you have a vna->cable assembly to sma-female sort of thing, and in calibration you connect the short/open/load bits on the end of that?
2022-06-23T13:06:17 < karlp> and have to treat the soldered or ufl pigtail as part of "your" portion?
2022-06-23T13:06:30 < karlp> and that's S11 only type stuff right?
2022-06-23T13:06:45 < karlp> that lets you evaluate whether the antenna is mistuned for the desired freq,
2022-06-23T13:07:25 < karlp> and if you place a _second_ antenna and mount them all "as desired" you can then do S12? and that's how you can do radiation patterns if that's important?
2022-06-23T13:08:51 < zyp> something like that, yes
2022-06-23T13:08:59 < jpa-> karlp: i would solder in the cable ground connector, then do the short/open/load calibration by soldering the signal lead to ground / 50 ohm resistor; then after calibration is done, solder the signal lead to the pad where your IC would connect and you can measure
2022-06-23T13:09:55 < benishor> what jpa said
2022-06-23T13:10:06 < benishor> it's important that the cable is part of the calibration process
2022-06-23T13:10:08 < karlp> so the efr module has that "antenna in" pin and the zero ohm in the reference layout because it's a module with a chip antenna inside.
2022-06-23T13:10:11 < benishor> since it will be part of the system
2022-06-23T13:10:26 < zyp> not necessarily where the IC connects, you want to connect to the 50ohm single ended transmission line if possible
2022-06-23T13:10:29 < benishor> and you want to characterise the antenna 
2022-06-23T13:10:38 < zyp> the IC side might be balanced
2022-06-23T13:11:26 < karlp> is it easier to juse place a ufl in the path instead of soldering back and forth all over teh place?
2022-06-23T13:12:01 < jpa-> it is, you can then have three ufl connectors to make your own calibration kit
2022-06-23T13:12:10 < zyp> S11 measurements are reflection, telling you how much energy goes into the antenna, but they don't tell you how much of that is radiated vs how much just turns into heat
2022-06-23T13:12:41 < benishor> S21 is the "through"
2022-06-23T13:13:10 < karlp> if you're dealing with detuning from wrong size/shape ground planes or too much metal/dielectric in the vicininty, is there a meaningful difference between radiated vs heat?
2022-06-23T13:13:21 < karlp> I mean,if you're not trying to design your own revolutionary antenna designs?
2022-06-23T13:13:26 < zyp> not as far as I know
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2022-06-23T13:13:39 < milkylainen_> See if this works better.
2022-06-23T13:13:43 < zyp> I've only learned to care about S11 for antenna tuning
2022-06-23T13:14:02 < karlp> that's about all I think I can manage the brains for, on top of the rest of my work at least.
2022-06-23T13:14:08 < jpa-> with common antenna designs it is hard to end up with dissipation large enough to matter
2022-06-23T13:14:11 < zyp> test S11, look at return loss, assume the lost energy is radiated
2022-06-23T13:14:55 < karlp> jpa-: so you have a sma-ufl classic pigtail, then 3x ufl test pices on "same" pcb type"? or can you get just ones that have ufl connects on them
2022-06-23T13:15:05 < zyp> sounds overkill
2022-06-23T13:15:29 < karlp> well, if the idea was to put ufl connector inline, rather than soldering back and forth for the calibration
2022-06-23T13:15:38 < karlp> cos that sounds like super not fun
2022-06-23T13:15:40 < jpa-> karlp: i would just have the ufl calibration connectors be the connector you would normally solder on PCB, but with just 50 ohm resistor or short soldered on it
2022-06-23T13:15:54 < zyp> I've got a SMA test kit and just test the SMA cable before connecting it to a solder in SMA pigtail
2022-06-23T13:16:18 < zyp> doesn't calibrate out the pigtail, but how much does that really matter
2022-06-23T13:16:22 < karlp> right, that's what I thought of doing first, but jpa and benishor were saying I should calibrate out the cable.. :)
2022-06-23T13:16:29 < jpa-> what zyp suggests works also *if* the antenna is close to 50 ohms; if it is off, you can see it is off but not exactly how it is off
2022-06-23T13:17:02 < jpa-> one way would also be to have identical length pigtails as the calibration kit
2022-06-23T13:17:07 < benishor> karlp: depends on what you want to measure. do you want to measure the antenna + cable or the antenna itself?
2022-06-23T13:17:28 < karlp> benishor: yes, I get the concept, it's still a matter of how much effort this is vs the reward...
2022-06-23T13:17:55 < karlp> and yes, I get tthe "measure garbage, get garbage, make garbage decisions" argument too.
2022-06-23T13:18:04 < zyp> I mean, I'm lazy enough that I just soldered a SMA pigtail directly to a balanced antenna; coax center to one side and shield to the other
2022-06-23T13:18:05 < benishor> what vna are you using?
2022-06-23T13:18:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uNgNm.JPG
2022-06-23T13:18:33 < karlp> benishor: nothing yet, but it would be a litevna I imagine.  I don't really see myself spending even 500 on the next line up.
2022-06-23T13:18:33 < zyp> worked well enough to get something that worked, and that was good enough for me
2022-06-23T13:19:17 < karlp> so all the designs I'm working with are single ended, 
2022-06-23T13:19:26 < zyp> yeah, that simplifies things
2022-06-23T13:19:31 < jpa-> i guess for practical purposes a set of identical pigtails for calibration is probably the best combination of accuracy & ease of use
2022-06-23T13:20:33 < karlp> so three pigtails same vendor, same batch, same length, and you leave one open, solder the other closed, and solder a 50ohm resistor on the other?
2022-06-23T13:20:35 < karlp> is is that simple?
2022-06-23T13:20:52 < karlp> for various levels of "how 50 is 50..." precision I guess?
2022-06-23T13:22:05 < jpa-> 50 ohm coax is generally accurate enough that it doesn't mess up practical antenna use
2022-06-23T13:22:32 < jpa-> and the closer your antenna gets to correct 50 ohm impedance, the less difference *any* length of 50 ohm transmission line you add to it does
2022-06-23T13:24:55 < jpa-> if you want to check for accuracy, you can always do it by measuring 50 ohm resistor with your measurement cable
2022-06-23T13:26:49 < jpa-> where things get annoying is if you want to measure something that is not supposed to be 50 ohms; like power rail impedance or similar - then the length & impedance of connecting cables has a much larger effect because there is a much larger reflection at the connection point
2022-06-23T13:26:49 < karlp> the "next" thing you would do with a vna is things like having a known antenna for receiving and twirling them around to test radiation pattern, which soundsd interesting, but way more complicated, what else can you / should you do with these?
2022-06-23T13:27:44 < jpa-> i have used mine mostly for testing response of amplifier circuits
2022-06-23T13:28:17 < karlp> to vlaidate actual impl vs spice?
2022-06-23T13:28:33 < jpa-> to choose passive components to get flat response
2022-06-23T13:28:45 < karlp> I guess that's an area where 50ohm assumptions really come into play then.
2022-06-23T13:28:49 < jpa-> in wideband amplifiers
2022-06-23T13:31:45 < jpa-> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/devEmbedded/differential_probe/main/design_notes/response_comparison.png   stuff like this; that had 50 ohm output and high-impedance input, so i just added 50 ohm resistor at the input
2022-06-23T13:33:34 < karlp> so, things like radio test modes in the chips themselves are _not_ used here, you use them with a SA instead right?
2022-06-23T13:33:57 < jpa-> that's correct
2022-06-23T13:34:12 < jpa-> i would test a PCB antenna on an unassembled board with VNA
2022-06-23T13:35:40 < karlp> well, I want to test it with an assembled board, because there's metal chunks on the board that I'm led to believe are detuning the antenna.
2022-06-23T13:35:52 < jpa-> ok
2022-06-23T13:35:58 < karlp> but that just makes my soldering job more of a hassle right, there's no other real issue there?
2022-06-23T13:36:20 < jpa-> i think you should disconnect the RF chip somehow and connect the VNA in its place
2022-06-23T13:36:30 < jpa-> but yeah, otherwise the same
2022-06-23T13:37:02 < karlp> just so you don't blow it up by injecting power from the VNA on it's rf out pin?
2022-06-23T13:37:35 < jpa-> so that you see what the RF chip would see, instead of seeing RF chip in parallel with the antenna
2022-06-23T13:37:52 < karlp> ah, of course.
2022-06-23T13:37:56 < jpa-> nominally if your RF chip has 50 ohm output impedance and antenna has 50 ohm impedance, VNA connected in parallel would see 25 ohms
2022-06-23T13:38:12 < jpa-> but especially when powered off the RF chip may have something totally else
2022-06-23T13:55:21 < karlp> the one thing that concerns me here is that it also sounds like a _lot_ of pcb's getting spun for doin anything meaningful here. :)
2022-06-23T13:56:27 < jpa-> why?
2022-06-23T13:56:53 < jpa-> unless it is way off, you just add a parallel capacitor or inductor to get it into tune for narrow band signals
2022-06-23T13:59:59 < karlp> hrm, I was thinking about these cutting off ground area sizes and shit.
2022-06-23T14:00:33 < jpa-> what do you mean?
2022-06-23T14:04:44 < karlp> like in this: https://community.silabs.com/s/article/kba-bt-1304-antenna-tuning-for-bgm12x-coin-cell-usage-example-x?language=en_US
2022-06-23T14:05:20 < karlp> and also on the module I'm using, it has a funcky specific ground loop that does not look all that easy to "just throw caps at "
2022-06-23T14:05:44 < karlp> though that would certainly be viable for some of the more normal pcb trace ones I could conceivable fuck around with.
2022-06-23T14:06:39 < jpa-> hmm yeah, frequency shift on a narrow band antenna is harder to fix
2022-06-23T14:08:04 < karlp> like I've heard of people with inv-F antennas laying longer traces and just cutting it down until it is "good"
2022-06-23T14:09:34 < jpa-> yeah, it depends a lot on how far off you are, and whether the frequency is incorrect or if it is just not exactly 50 ohms resistive
2022-06-23T14:09:36 < zyp> that's what I did for my uni project
2022-06-23T14:10:25 < zyp> we etched a dummy pcb with a ground plane and the antenna, extra long, then we just measured and cut until it matched target frequency
2022-06-23T14:10:59 < zyp> ended up being a little bit longer than the reference antenna design we copied due to ground plane shape
2022-06-23T14:11:35 < zyp> for the NFC antenna I just stacked capacitors until I got it to the correct resonance frequency
2022-06-23T14:38:46 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2c_-9kIjyU
2022-06-23T14:42:00 < jadew> yw
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2022-06-23T15:07:25 < karlp> aight, well, I bought a litevna 4", hopefully I'll use it at least once...
2022-06-23T15:08:23 < jadew> 6 GHz, that's impressive
2022-06-23T15:09:07 < jadew> what's the dynamic range?
2022-06-23T15:12:32 < jadew> lmfao, they're comparing it with a R&S on the aliexpress page
2022-06-23T15:15:42 < jadew> I'm almost tempted to get one to see how it compares with my 8752C, which is also 6 GHz
2022-06-23T15:19:22 < jadew> (might actually be better software wise, because the 8752C is full of calibration related bugs)
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2022-06-23T16:02:51 < catphish> how does one calculate wavelength in a copper wire?
2022-06-23T16:05:43 < catphish> looks like it's about 2/3 the speed of light, i don't need an exact calculation
2022-06-23T16:05:57 < jpa-> yeah, for typical transmission lines 70% is a good guess
2022-06-23T16:06:11 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_factor
2022-06-23T16:06:49 < catphish> i'm trying to work out how likely i am to have problems with my poorly terminated CAN bus
2022-06-23T16:08:10 < jpa-> that depends mostly on the edge speed = slew rate of your drivers
2022-06-23T16:09:01 < jpa-> the CAN bitrate itself is slow enough that you'd have to have very long bus for it to matter, but the edges can reflect and cause glitches
2022-06-23T16:09:40 < PaulFertser> On a 5 km bus it matters
2022-06-23T16:10:11 < karlp> what else would they compare it with? it clearly shows it has a way worse noise floor/dyn range, but that is otherwise accurate? seemed like a reasonable comparison to me?
2022-06-23T16:10:25 < catphish> well the wavelength is about 400m, people say it's likely to matter above about 10% of that
2022-06-23T16:11:13 < karlp> lol, imported one of the efr32 eval boards into kicad, it's 8layers.
2022-06-23T16:11:38 < PaulFertser> This AN explains CAN timings nicely to me http://www.nxp.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/app_note/AN1798.pdf
2022-06-23T16:12:05 < jpa-> catphish: that sounds like wavelength for 1 MHz sinewave, but is your CAN bus traffic sine or more like square wave?
2022-06-23T16:13:02 < catphish> jpa-: yes indeed
2022-06-23T16:13:50 < catphish> i'm not really sure what the slew rate it in "high speed" mode
2022-06-23T16:14:01 < jpa-> which PHY chip are you using?
2022-06-23T16:14:14 < jpa-> though, why not just terminate it correctly?
2022-06-23T16:15:35 < catphish> jpa-: i'm using a few different PHY chips, some devices i have no idea, my devices use sn65hvd231
2022-06-23T16:16:09 < catphish> the problem with termination is that i've been a bit stupid and created a situation where i need to create a fairly long stub off the bus
2022-06-23T16:17:01 < catphish> the standard simply has a rather conservative recommendation to limit stubs to 300mm, and mine will be MUCH longer than that, i'm questioning at what point it will actually be a problem
2022-06-23T16:17:10 < catphish> and perhaps how to mitigate this
2022-06-23T16:17:32 < catphish> and work out how much effort i need to go to in order to redesign :(
2022-06-23T16:18:16 < catphish> if i'm careful with wiring, i can probably reduce the stubs to less than 1m
2022-06-23T16:18:56 < jpa-> the shortest rise/fall of that chip is 50 ns (=> about 10 MHz equivalent frequency or 40 m wavelength)
2022-06-23T16:19:26 < jpa-> so a basic guess would be that 4 meter stubs wouldn't cause much problem
2022-06-23T16:19:54 < catphish> that was my thought, but then i wondered if that 4m is the length of the stub, or the length from the end of the bus to the end of the stub
2022-06-23T16:19:58 < jpa-> especially if there is only one device at the end of the stub; the reflection would be largest midway in the stub
2022-06-23T16:20:01 < catphish> (big practical difference)
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2022-06-23T16:20:45 < jpa-> length of the stub, the length of the properly terminated transmission line is electrically invisible
2022-06-23T16:21:03 < catphish> it must be the length of the stub, yeah, else you could never have *any* stub on a line longer than 4m
2022-06-23T16:21:26 < rajkosto> 4m is pretty long for a stub
2022-06-23T16:21:28 < catphish> mine will probably be around 1m, so perhaps there's hope
2022-06-23T16:21:48 < catphish> also, isn't the data rate quite important, since it increases settling time?
2022-06-23T16:22:08 < catphish> ie it doesn't matter how much ringing there is, if it's settled by the measurement point?
2022-06-23T16:22:25 < jpa-> if your CAN devices are never disturbed by ringing and glitches, then yes, the data rate determines it
2022-06-23T16:23:02 < catphish> i see, i'm fairly sure they are designed to only sample near the end of the bit period
2022-06-23T16:23:16 < catphish> (presumably for this exact reason)
2022-06-23T16:23:36 < jpa-> usually with asynchronous protocols like CAN the problem happens when a reflection disturbs the start bit, so one device gets wrong timing and samples the whole message at wrong points
2022-06-23T16:23:36 < catphish> but i don't want to give myself too much false hope that my poor design will work
2022-06-23T16:24:13 < catphish> that makes sense
2022-06-23T16:25:17 < catphish> well, none of this really changes what i'm going to do in practical terms, which is to make these stubs as short as i can, but i wanted to assess how screwed i might be
2022-06-23T16:25:31 < catphish> thanks for the maths though, this is reassuring
2022-06-23T16:26:32 < jpa-> what it will do though, is reduce the noise immunity of the devices on the stub
2022-06-23T16:26:37 < catphish> if the problem is too bad, i have bought a CAN repeater to go at the tee, but i'm kinda hoping this isn't necessaery
2022-06-23T16:27:18 < jpa-> normally any inductively coupled noise current is dissipated in the termination resistor, but when the stub has no termination at one end, you'll get as much voltage as the magnetic field change can generate
2022-06-23T16:27:24 < catphish> that's a shame, since the stub is probably going to be exposed to the most electrical noise ever seen
2022-06-23T16:29:06 < jpa-> yeah.. that is probably the larger problem; shielded cable should help a lot though
2022-06-23T16:29:58 < catphish> i think this may also be the one part of the bus that isn't shielded too...
2022-06-23T16:30:12 < catphish> younger me wasn't very smart
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2022-06-23T16:49:49 < catphish> this is how my bus will look: https://i.imgur.com/ksKl8WD.jpg
2022-06-23T16:51:59 < catphish> the length inside the box is probably 1m, maybe a little less
2022-06-23T16:57:30 < jpa-> can't you just add second connector to the battery box so that you can eliminte the stub?
2022-06-23T16:58:28 < catphish> jpa-: in theory yes, if i were building it again definitely yes, but in practice, this is a huge pain in the ass, 
2022-06-23T16:58:58 < catphish> the box is finished, powder coated, assembled, filled with batteries
2022-06-23T16:59:16 < jpa-> "drill and try not to hit anything" ;)
2022-06-23T16:59:45 < jpa-> if you can add termination in the battery box, you could also run a loop back from VCU 
2022-06-23T16:59:57 < catphish> battery box: https://i.imgur.com/lWuYRcG.jpg
2022-06-23T17:01:02 < catphish> i *can* add termination in the battery box, and i can remove termination from the VCU if needed
2022-06-23T17:01:17 < catphish> but... the VCU is in the front of the vehicle, and everything else is in the back
2022-06-23T17:01:43 < jpa-> well, then the same for drive unit?
2022-06-23T17:01:54 < catphish> another option is to disassamble the drive unit, and remove the terminartion resistor
2022-06-23T17:02:14 < catphish> this is less fun, but not totally impossible
2022-06-23T17:02:42 < jpa-> could as well just see if it works :)
2022-06-23T17:02:58 < jpa-> probably the easiest retrofit if it doesn't is a CAN splitter/hub
2022-06-23T17:03:38 < catphish> i have in fact ordered one (just in case)
2022-06-23T17:06:52 < catphish> another option is to terminate all 3 ends and run the bus at 40 ohm
2022-06-23T17:07:01 < Laurenceb> this looks like hyperloop sheeet
2022-06-23T17:10:20 < Steffanx> Welcome back Laurenceb. I almost reported you missing 
2022-06-23T17:11:32 < jpa-> oh no, we have to cancel the celebration now
2022-06-23T17:12:26 < catphish> there's a PDF here with MUCH more lenient recommendations for CAN buses https://emusbms.com/files/bms/docs/Elektromotus_CAN_bus_recommendations_v0.2_rc3.pdf
2022-06-23T17:12:56 < catphish> they suggest a 6m limit for stubs at 500kbps
2022-06-23T17:14:41 < catphish> i assume that's a calculated maximum in ideal circumstances though
2022-06-23T17:14:42 < Laurenceb> hyperloop uses 500k over >50m of cable
2022-06-23T17:15:11 < catphish> yeah that should work
2022-06-23T17:15:25 < catphish> my problem is specifically with unterminated stubs
2022-06-23T17:16:26 < Laurenceb> ah, our cable snakes around with no stubs
2022-06-23T17:16:37 < catphish> jpa-: what do you think about terminating all 3 ends, resulting in a 40R bus? is this going to be too much load?
2022-06-23T17:18:24 < karlp> you're not "terminating" it if it's not a transmission line, aiui.
2022-06-23T17:18:43 < karlp> so you're entering into makebelieve land by thinking that 40ohm is now the "load" of the "line"
2022-06-23T17:19:53 < catphish> Laurenceb: yeah, cable is supposed to snake with no stubs when designed properly :)
2022-06-23T17:20:13 < jpa-> catphish: you could terminate with slightly higher resistances at 3 ends and it will probably work reasonably ok
2022-06-23T17:20:25 < Laurenceb> no step on snek
2022-06-23T17:20:27 < jpa-> i would maintain the total bus load at 60 ohms though
2022-06-23T17:21:48 < Laurenceb> https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--C3aMny7---/t_Preview/b_rgb:ffb81c,c_limit,f_auto,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1486251282/production/designs/1181836_1.jpg
2022-06-23T17:21:54 < catphish> karlp: well, it is a transmission line, right? and termination resistors do load the transmitters, no?
2022-06-23T17:22:13 < catphish> lol weird snek
2022-06-23T17:22:51 < jpa-> you are terminating 3 transmission lines and then just sticking them together at the other end
2022-06-23T17:23:15 < catphish> indeed
2022-06-23T17:23:39 < catphish> i will be the first to admit this is a mess of my own making
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2022-06-23T17:25:35 < jpa-> if you terminate each end at 180 ohms and if the cable is actually 120 ohms (really it will vary a lot and that's fine), the reflection coefficients will be 0.2 at the ends and 0.14 at the middle, which doesn't seem particularly bad
2022-06-23T17:26:07 < jpa-> so any reflection glitch would be at most 20% of the original signal level
2022-06-23T17:27:15 < jpa-> if you terminate each of the 3 ends at 120 ohms, the reflection coefficients will be 0 at the ends and 0.33 at the middle; but the load on the drivers is larger so voltage levels are smaller and thus noise immunity is smaller
2022-06-23T17:27:36 < catphish> well that's not going to happen, if i pulled apart the drve unit, i'd just remove its termination instead
2022-06-23T17:27:48 < catphish> and perhaps that is the solution here
2022-06-23T17:28:07 < catphish> just depends whether i can access that resistor
2022-06-23T17:29:28 < jpa-> if you go 180 + 180 + 120 termination, you get 0.2/0.14/0.25 reflection and 50 ohm load, which is probably pretty good also
2022-06-23T17:33:28 < catphish> well that seems reasonable
2022-06-23T17:33:39 < catphish> what would jesus do?
2022-06-23T17:35:44 < catphish> i think 180/180/120 is worth a try, thanks for the math!
2022-06-23T17:36:55 < jpa-> jesus had pretty bad glitch 3 days after termination
2022-06-23T17:37:16 < catphish> true
2022-06-23T17:48:01 < catphish> alternative number [lost count]... run two pairs front to rear, put both terminations in the rear, this way would be in-spec, if a little unpleasant to wire
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2022-06-23T17:55:23 < catphish> jpa-: thanks for your help, after much thought i realise there's an obvious and correct solution, that just requires more cable... https://i.imgur.com/5ksYADu.jpg
2022-06-23T17:56:06 < catphish> loop the bus all the way from rear -> front -> rear, more cable, but in-spec!
2022-06-23T17:57:17 < catphish> i can also use the repeater if necessary to split the bus in half at the front, with no other changes needed
2022-06-23T17:58:05 < catphish> or i can use it to supply the OBD2 port safely
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2022-06-23T18:09:12 < karlp> I thought you had a stub inside the battery box and didn't want to put another hole in it?
2022-06-23T18:09:23 < karlp> and that bms and shunt were both inside there?
2022-06-23T18:13:29 < catphish> karlp: that's correct
2022-06-23T18:13:49 < catphish> but there's no reason that stub can't be the end of the bus
2022-06-23T18:14:52 < jpa-> catphish: :)
2022-06-23T18:15:35 < catphish> everything bottom-right of that image is inside the battery box, with only a single pair of CAN lines going in, but i can make it the end of the bus
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2022-06-23T18:25:52 < karlp> right, you were just trying to avoid laying an even longer loop backa nd forth...
2022-06-23T18:26:14 < karlp> I'd be kinda inclinded to suck it and see first, but I realise it's auto re-rewiring if it doesn't work, so fair bit of hassle...
2022-06-23T18:27:11 < catphish> well the front-rear loom is already made, and the space it runs through it tight, but pulling it out and adding another CAN pair isn't a huge job at this stage
2022-06-23T18:28:23 < catphish> much less of a job now than trying to do it later if it's unreliable
2022-06-23T18:28:56 < karlp> right, yeah.
2022-06-23T18:29:48 < karlp> so, turns out using CC voltage monitoring is not real useful for detecting _both_ cable connection _and_ orientation, if people use A-C cables, with nothing on CCx.
2022-06-23T18:29:57 < karlp> so I need to add vbus monitoring _as well_ 
2022-06-23T18:30:00 < karlp> silly shit.
2022-06-23T18:30:04 < karlp> yet more stuff to redo.
2022-06-23T18:34:59 < karlp> talking of stubs: "... and enables the
2022-06-23T18:35:01 < karlp> drive of up to 8000ft long bus segments, or eight 120Ω
2022-06-23T18:35:03 < karlp> terminations in a star topology.
2022-06-23T18:35:05 < karlp> "
2022-06-23T18:37:22 < catphish> what does that?
2022-06-23T18:37:34 < catphish> i need that in my canbs!
2022-06-23T18:39:27 < Laurenceb> how can I set up grep to remove lines with '-' character in them, but allow negative numbers?
2022-06-23T18:44:34 < catphish> you could express negative numbers by putting them in parenthesis, then grep -v -- -
2022-06-23T18:45:27 < Laurenceb>  -[^0-9]
2022-06-23T18:45:29 < Laurenceb> ?
2022-06-23T18:45:34 < catphish> but more seriously: grep -v -- -[^0-9]
2022-06-23T18:45:36 < catphish> yes
2022-06-23T18:46:07 < catphish> note that this allows "hello world-"
2022-06-23T18:46:22 < catphish> but otherwise does what you want
2022-06-23T18:49:02 < Laurenceb> yeah
2022-06-23T18:49:08 < Laurenceb> just discovered that as its glitchy
2022-06-23T18:49:31 < Laurenceb> I need a way to match for "or nothing"
2022-06-23T18:50:02 < catphish> grep -v -E -- "(-[^0-9]|-$)"
2022-06-23T18:50:21 < catphish> that matches -[number] OR -[end of line]
2022-06-23T18:50:36 < Laurenceb> ok, what does the -- argument do?
2022-06-23T18:51:02 < catphish> -- means "no more options", it prevents -whatever being uinterpreted as an option
2022-06-23T18:51:06 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-06-23T18:51:19 < catphish> not needed in the last case because the pattern doesn't start with a -
2022-06-23T18:51:20 < Laurenceb> does -E need to be upper case?
2022-06-23T18:51:25 < catphish> yes i think so
2022-06-23T18:51:27 < Laurenceb> atm I'm using -e
2022-06-23T18:51:28 < Laurenceb> ok
2022-06-23T18:51:42 < catphish> -e is something else entirely
2022-06-23T18:52:06 < catphish> -E just gives you access to more regex
2022-06-23T18:52:12 < catphish> $ didn't work for me without it
2022-06-23T18:52:33 < catphish> (-[^0-9]|-$) matched -[NOT a number] OR -[newline]
2022-06-23T18:52:53 < catphish> when you invert that with -v it should do exactly what you want
2022-06-23T18:53:49 < catphish> https://paste.debian.net/1244977/
2022-06-23T18:56:55 < Laurenceb> thanks, works well enough
2022-06-23T18:57:10 < Laurenceb> still a bash warning when it starts up but that part of the code works
2022-06-23T18:57:21  * Laurenceb is debugging 2k line bash script for hyperloop
2022-06-23T18:57:37 < Laurenceb> ok works well enough for today, home tiems
2022-06-23T18:57:41 < Laurenceb> cya
2022-06-23T18:58:01 < catphish> enjoy :)
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2022-06-23T20:40:06 < karlp> hrm, catphish is gone again.
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2022-06-23T21:16:06 < Laurenceb> sup
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2022-06-23T21:37:15 < karlp> today's weird ali find: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003772263596.html
2022-06-23T21:39:25 < mawk> splitter 1 -> 4 ?
2022-06-23T21:41:52 < karlp> hub with none of the usb ports mounted..
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2022-06-23T22:03:29 < machinehum> Neat
2022-06-23T22:36:15 < josuah> it looks like the cypress logo on it
2022-06-23T22:37:13 < josuah> hmm, no, it is missing the circle, and the T-shaped thing is not right
2022-06-23T22:49:53 < Steffanx> https://terminus-usa.com/product/fe1-1s-usb-2-0-high-speed-4-port-hub-controller/ yw josuah ;)
2022-06-23T22:51:37 < josuah> Steffanx: thank you! :]
2022-06-23T22:52:54 < josuah> as written on the back of the board with bad punctuation: "Module:FE11SX4"
2022-06-23T22:53:16 < Steffanx> Google images "1-4 usb hub ic" .. 5th hit. 1st is the ic as well, but on aliexpress.
2022-06-23T22:54:12 < josuah> a lot of these Aliexpress description are copy pastas
2022-06-23T22:54:33 < josuah> sometimes, they did not replace the link to the other aliexpress store that is the original author
2022-06-23T22:54:40 < josuah> I am amazed to see that for every very common use-case, there is an ASIC for it
2022-06-23T22:55:07 < josuah> and a company doing that ASIC
2022-06-23T22:55:36 < josuah> like the Hitachi HDxxx controllers for LCD characters display
2022-06-23T22:55:46 < josuah> the SSD1306 for OLED monochrome displays
2022-06-23T22:55:57 < josuah> this USB HUB thing
2022-06-23T22:56:11 < josuah> the MAX485 for UART <-> RS-485
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2022-06-23T22:57:24 < josuah> the party goes on, and we're here to interface all that
2022-06-23T23:39:47 < mawk> can I make a timer enable or disable another timer?
2022-06-23T23:40:00 < mawk> like one timer is generating 35KHz, the other timer 1KHz
2022-06-23T23:40:10 < mawk> and I do a AND on both their signals
2022-06-23T23:40:29 < mawk> so I get a train of 35KHz pulses ever ms
2022-06-23T23:48:30 < karlp> you doing ir remote shits?
2022-06-23T23:48:40 < karlp> there's sme app notes on doing this sort of thing explicitly.
2022-06-23T23:56:41 < mawk> yes karlp 
2022-06-23T23:56:44 < mawk> o
2022-06-23T23:56:46 < mawk> nice
--- Day changed pe kesä 24 2022
2022-06-24T00:06:13 < mawk> one-pulse mode with DMA will maybe work
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2022-06-24T00:08:24 < kaki> early yes
2022-06-24T00:18:58 < Steffanx> Live from the sauna?
2022-06-24T00:26:25 < kaki> nope
2022-06-24T00:27:55 < zyp> was welding up legs for the welding table tonight and by the third set I thought I were getting quick at it, turns out I was too quick: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/989631521965084712/IMG_20220623_224150.jpg
2022-06-24T00:29:30 < kaki> rectangles have a weld order if you want to keep them square
2022-06-24T00:31:21 < zyp> I bet
2022-06-24T00:32:26 < zyp> I don't really have any good square references at the moment, apart from measuring diagonals
2022-06-24T00:36:55 < kaki> it's the most accurate way anyway
2022-06-24T00:37:28 < zyp> it's a pain in the ass, so I just yoloed it
2022-06-24T00:39:43 < kaki> for a table sure
2022-06-24T00:41:12 < zyp> I also hate welding galvanized
2022-06-24T00:41:39 < zyp> but I got like 400kg or something of those rails for almost nothing
2022-06-24T00:43:07 < zyp> I was told I could have it for scrap price, but then people underestimated the amount so I paid for like a fourth or something
2022-06-24T00:44:30 < kaki> you could make angle joint pieces for bolt based approach
2022-06-24T00:44:59 < kaki> if you are planning to use a lot of that profile
2022-06-24T00:46:23 < zyp> yeah, maybe I'll consider something like that for whatever next project I find for them
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2022-06-24T00:49:46 < catphish> kaki: box: https://i.imgur.com/Vc4GY7p.jpg
2022-06-24T00:50:18 < BrainDamage> kakibox*
2022-06-24T00:50:29 < kaki> how is that shaft so massive and solid
2022-06-24T00:50:48 < catphish> that's what she said
2022-06-24T00:51:47 < catphish> they're also insanely hard, the lathe did not enjoy cutting them
2022-06-24T00:52:26 < catphish> anyway, next step is insert the small one into the big one with some heat
2022-06-24T00:52:54 < kaki> interference fit
2022-06-24T00:53:17 < kaki> tolerance*
2022-06-24T00:55:00 < zyp> I want a lathe
2022-06-24T00:55:21 < catphish> this was done on a robotic lathe that i can't even imagine the cost of
2022-06-24T00:55:23 < zyp> also a milling machine, not sure which I want more
2022-06-24T00:56:20 < kaki> catphish: as new.. hundreds
2022-06-24T00:57:01 < catphish> hundreds of what?
2022-06-24T00:58:28 < kaki> of thousands
2022-06-24T00:59:19 < catphish> of what?
2022-06-24T00:59:53 < catphish> i don't know what currency you northern territory dwellers use
2022-06-24T01:00:22 < catphish> but yes, hundreds of thousands of something i have no doubt
2022-06-24T01:00:52 < kaki> usd eur gbp
2022-06-24T01:01:52 < kaki> marginal difference
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2022-06-24T01:29:16 < karlp> are we looking at those not being the same length?
2022-06-24T01:30:07 < kaki> diff is not aligned to center of the car
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2022-06-24T01:56:43 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFUM7RL1UEAAHwZU.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-06-24T01:57:15 < Laurenceb> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFUM7QtiUUAAnKyh.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-06-24T01:58:39 < catphish> kaki: correct, diff not in centre of car
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2022-06-24T02:17:20 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCcXHfVFpdM random musics
2022-06-24T02:24:17 < kaki> Laurenceb: welcome
2022-06-24T02:35:56 < catphish> jpa-: it turns out the TI already did the calculations I was trying to do earlier...
2022-06-24T02:35:58 < catphish> Therefore, a typical CAN driver may have a 50 ns transition time, and when considering a typical
2022-06-24T02:35:58 < catphish> twisted-pair transmission line prop delay of 5 ns/m, the down-and-back delay for one meter becomes
2022-06-24T02:35:58 < catphish> 10ns/m. The critical length becomes 5 m (50 ns / 10ns/m = 5 m), and the max un-terminated stub length
2022-06-24T02:35:58 < catphish> for the network is 1/3rd of the critical length, or 5/3 m (1.67 m).
2022-06-24T02:38:31 < catphish> this means my stub would probably be fine, but i'm going to rewire anyway
2022-06-24T02:51:23 < kaki> 1.67m is hardly a stub
2022-06-24T02:52:57 < karlp> catphish: that quote from earlier from the datasheet of an rs485 transceiver by the way
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2022-06-24T02:55:24 < catphish> i imagine much the same applies
2022-06-24T02:56:36 < catphish> i want to get into the final stage of wiring up my car now, and annoyingly workshop has run out of several colours of wire, awaiting restock!
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2022-06-24T22:56:53 < kaki> midsummer morgon
2022-06-24T22:59:17 < catphish> morning
2022-06-24T22:59:50 < hexo_> guten guten
2022-06-24T23:00:09 < kaki> it's midsummer
2022-06-24T23:00:24 < kaki> and it's hot too
2022-06-24T23:01:20 < catphish> it's raining here, after a very hot period!
2022-06-24T23:01:44 < kaki> bliss
2022-06-24T23:02:02 < Steffanx> what is hot?
2022-06-24T23:02:24 < mawk> 25°C is hot
2022-06-24T23:02:27 < mawk> 21°C is cold
2022-06-24T23:02:54 < Steffanx> but what kind of hotness is mr kaki talking about
2022-06-24T23:03:06 < kaki> 26C
2022-06-24T23:03:30 < Steffanx> yeah ok too hot
2022-06-24T23:03:39 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q76dMggUH1M infortainment about that nice knob thing
2022-06-24T23:03:59 < catphish> it's only 18 here now!
2022-06-24T23:04:16 < catphish> last few days were hotter
2022-06-24T23:05:02 < catphish> kaki: good box day today!
2022-06-24T23:05:15 < kaki> tell about the box
2022-06-24T23:05:38 < catphish> installed charger, installed vacuum pump, installed all coolant pipe, coolant tank, coolant pump
2022-06-24T23:05:39 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/hhdTLa3
2022-06-24T23:05:54 < catphish> also re-installed brake master cylinder
2022-06-24T23:06:01 < BrainDamage> so you're finally pumping
2022-06-24T23:06:41 < BrainDamage> what's your estimate of total mass difference when you're done?
2022-06-24T23:07:17 < catphish> i think about +100kg
2022-06-24T23:08:10 < kaki> but when box
2022-06-24T23:08:37 < kaki> it seems box is inevitable now
2022-06-24T23:13:09 < catphish> BrainDamage: i've removed 130kg engine, 42kg gearbox, + tank and fuel (30?)
2022-06-24T23:14:14 < BrainDamage> both the engine is lighter than I'd have ballparked and gearbox heavier, but it does make sense
2022-06-24T23:14:15 < catphish> BrainDamage: i've added 90kg tesla drive unit, 180kg batteries, some unknown weight in steel brackets and box (20?)
2022-06-24T23:14:35 < BrainDamage> yeah, I imagine batteries would've been worst weight
2022-06-24T23:14:55 < BrainDamage> I assume weight distribution didn't change significantly if you placed batts where engine was
2022-06-24T23:15:34 < mawk> what's that for catphish ?
2022-06-24T23:15:40 < mawk> the pump and all that
2022-06-24T23:15:46 < mawk> why do you need vacuum in a vehicule
2022-06-24T23:15:56 < BrainDamage> for the brakes
2022-06-24T23:15:57 < catphish> that's my hope! i didn't weight the front and rear before i started so i won't be able to confirm very easily
2022-06-24T23:16:10 < Steffanx> cool knob that is mr kaki
2022-06-24T23:16:16 < catphish> but the weight is in the same place as the engine and hearbox was previously
2022-06-24T23:16:40 < catphish> mawk: the vacuum pump is for brakes
2022-06-24T23:16:49 < mawk> vacuum brakes?
2022-06-24T23:16:53 < mawk> how does that work
2022-06-24T23:16:59 < kaki> brake booster*
2022-06-24T23:17:20 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_servo
2022-06-24T23:17:56 < catphish> basically engine makes vacuum, when you push brake pedal it uses that vacuum to help you push harder / easier
2022-06-24T23:18:25 < mawk> o
2022-06-24T23:18:34 < catphish> so i have 2 options: use vacuum pump to simulate engine vacuum, or install brake system with electric motor assistance
2022-06-24T23:18:58 < catphish> electric motor is better, but i decided that was too work work to change for now
2022-06-24T23:19:06 < catphish> vacuum pump is easy to add
2022-06-24T23:21:14 < catphish> so weight difference is indeed about +100kg, hopefully a little less, and weight distribution is a little higher than i'd like, but hopefully only minimally unaffected front-rear
2022-06-24T23:21:36 < catphish> because it's essentially in the rear, and heavier, i imagine it'll be slightly more rear biased now
2022-06-24T23:22:57 < catphish> coolant tank: https://i.imgur.com/eJFXtxk.jpeg - it was a big stress working out where to put this, but very happy with the result
2022-06-24T23:23:26 < catphish> one thing that's not very clear is whether i've got air trapped in the cooling system or not :(
2022-06-24T23:23:53 < catphish> water is going round nicely, but there might be high points with air trapped
2022-06-24T23:23:59 < BrainDamage> is it front or rear wheel drive?
2022-06-24T23:24:22 < BrainDamage> a ir thermometer or thermal cam should help you wrt hot spots
2022-06-24T23:24:33 < catphish> rear wheel drive
2022-06-24T23:25:14 < BrainDamage> just pretend it's more sport-car like
2022-06-24T23:25:22 < BrainDamage> moar acceleration
2022-06-24T23:25:36 < catphish> BrainDamage: https://i.imgur.com/9OMREuP.jpg - see motor, gearbox and diff setup
2022-06-24T23:25:51 < BrainDamage> nice pic
2022-06-24T23:26:33 < BrainDamage> for some reason I can picture giant diagonal spring suspensions
2022-06-24T23:26:40 < BrainDamage> with high camber
2022-06-24T23:27:13 < mawk> put the thing upside down to see if air is trapped catphish 
2022-06-24T23:31:09 < Steffanx> yay is that an electric fiat 126p in the background catphish?
2022-06-24T23:33:24 < catphish> Steffanx: yes
2022-06-24T23:34:02 < Steffanx> such funny little car
2022-06-24T23:35:41 < BrainDamage> I've seen one really weird 126 on the highway once
2022-06-24T23:36:10 < BrainDamage> they replaced the engine to a much more powerful one, and as they were accelerating, I guess to improve cooling, the rear panel would mechanically open
2022-06-24T23:36:15 < Steffanx> Yeah its amazing to see all the conversions they did on the famous polski fiat.
2022-06-24T23:36:42 < catphish> lol
2022-06-24T23:36:51 < catphish> i guess it's cheap and easy to modify
2022-06-24T23:38:10 < Steffanx> maybe conversion isnt the right word, more like modifications 
2022-06-24T23:38:44 < BrainDamage> when are you making an electric reliant robin
2022-06-24T23:39:10 < Steffanx> lol BrainDamage is into reliant robins lately
2022-06-24T23:39:42 < BrainDamage> I just find them funny
2022-06-24T23:41:18 < Steffanx> There used to be one driving around one here, but havent seen any in at least 1.5-2 decades now.
2022-06-24T23:41:26 < Steffanx> heh they where really manufacturer till 2001. im surprised.
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2022-06-25T00:28:49 < kaki> catphish: https://imgur.com/gallery/TOlA4fX look at this cool dude
2022-06-25T00:42:52 < catphish> saw him yesterday :)
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2022-06-25T01:09:17 < karlp> catphish: I feel it's worth pointing that that thing I was quoting was not a _normal_ rs485 transciver, but one designed for bullshit :)
2022-06-25T01:09:54 < catphish> lol
2022-06-25T01:52:36 < karlp> yeah, I saw that dude yesterday as well, notevenmad.gif
2022-06-25T01:53:04 < karlp> the headlights wink really sets it off.
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2022-06-25T02:08:47 < Laurenceb> latest supreme court ruling just dropped
2022-06-25T02:08:52 < Laurenceb> https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/37/52/1883216079-Slavery-Reinstated-Demotivational-Pictures.jpg
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2022-06-25T02:45:23 < catphish> Norma is going to have to have her baby after all :(
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2022-06-25T03:03:02 < specing> lol 20 mins in and he's already banned
2022-06-25T03:33:38 < upgrdman> anyone know how quickly gpio outputs can change on stm32f730? sysclk? /2? /4?
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2022-06-25T21:03:10 < mawk> timer is complicated
2022-06-25T21:03:16 < mawk> wooooo [itchyjunk] are you doing stm32 now?
2022-06-25T21:03:27 < [itchyjunk]> no
2022-06-25T21:03:30 < [itchyjunk]> idk what that is even
2022-06-25T21:03:38 < mawk> it's a kind of ARM microcontroller
2022-06-25T21:03:39 < mawk> the best kind
2022-06-25T21:03:41 < mawk> so stay here
2022-06-25T21:03:53 < [itchyjunk]> oh ARM makes them?
2022-06-25T21:03:56 < mawk> no
2022-06-25T21:04:02 < mawk> ARM licenses design, they don't make anything
2022-06-25T21:04:09 < [itchyjunk]> oh
2022-06-25T21:04:10 < mawk> ST bought a ARM license and then makes their own chips
2022-06-25T21:04:22 < [itchyjunk]> ARM makes the design for stm32?
2022-06-25T21:04:28 < mawk> ARM makes the design for everyone
2022-06-25T21:04:44 < [itchyjunk]> doubt it. do they make arduino or rasp pi?
2022-06-25T21:04:50 < mawk> arduino isn't arm
2022-06-25T21:05:00 < mawk> yeah raspberry pi has a license from ARM
2022-06-25T21:05:03 < [itchyjunk]> you said ARM makes design for everyone
2022-06-25T21:05:07 < mawk> the license is just for the core, not the peripherals around it
2022-06-25T21:05:08 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-25T21:05:14 < mawk> ARM makes a design that everyone can license
2022-06-25T21:05:17 < jpa-> (many modern arduinos are based on ARM microcontrollers, but the classic uno is AVR)
2022-06-25T21:05:28 < mawk> for a few hundred thousand k or something
2022-06-25T21:05:30 < mawk> right jpa- 
2022-06-25T21:05:39 < [itchyjunk]> jpa-, based on as in do they license anything from ARM?
2022-06-25T21:05:52 < mawk> they license the ARM core from ARM
2022-06-25T21:06:04 < [itchyjunk]> arduino?
2022-06-25T21:06:17 < mawk> arduino doesn't make the chips directly, but the maker of the chip that arduino uses, yes
2022-06-25T21:06:34 < [itchyjunk]> I didn't now arduino had anything to do with ARM
2022-06-25T21:06:37 < [itchyjunk]> pretty odd
2022-06-25T21:07:00 < [itchyjunk]> Why is everyone licensing things from ARM? What about intel or AMD? aren't they competing ?
2022-06-25T21:08:03 < jpa-> intel and AMD don't do much in microcontroller markets
2022-06-25T21:08:27 < jpa-> microchip, cypress etc. have some designs but ARM is by far the most popular
2022-06-25T21:09:02 < mawk> you can get a cortex M3 license even yourself [itchyjunk] https://www.arm.com/products/silicon-ip-cpu/cortex-m/cortex-m3
2022-06-25T21:09:04 < mawk> with some money
2022-06-25T21:09:07 < jpa-> RISCV is gaining interest especially in china, and ESP8266/ESP32 license their core from tensilica
2022-06-25T21:09:43 < [itchyjunk]> Oh right, RISCV ..
2022-06-25T21:09:58 < [itchyjunk]> but that's more instruction set for a cpu rather than a design of one, right?
2022-06-25T21:10:09 < mawk> kinda
2022-06-25T21:10:16 < mawk> but there are risc-v designs
2022-06-25T21:10:19 < hexo_> $0 in FPGA???!?!
2022-06-25T21:10:22 < hexo_> waaaaaaaat
2022-06-25T21:10:30 < [itchyjunk]> mawk, i have no use for licenses. i don't think you can print micro controllers in basements yet
2022-06-25T21:10:33 < jpa-> and ARM doesn't allow others to make even instruction set compatible CPUs
2022-06-25T21:10:49 < [itchyjunk]> oh
2022-06-25T21:10:53 < mawk> [itchyjunk]: have you heard of FPGAs?
2022-06-25T21:10:59 < mawk> you can basically do it
2022-06-25T21:11:08 < [itchyjunk]> yes, i vaguely know them. i hang out in ##fpgs
2022-06-25T21:11:27 < [itchyjunk]> i might have forgotten the little i learned though..
2022-06-25T21:12:23 < jpa-> https://hub.packtpub.com/arm-releases-free-cortex-m-processor-cores-for-fpgas-includes-measures-to-combat-fossi-threat/   "Measures to Combat FOSSi (free and open source silicon) threat"
2022-06-25T21:13:21 < [itchyjunk]> hmm
2022-06-25T21:14:05 < [itchyjunk]> btw i only recently learned that there is this one company in Europe (ASML was it?) and they have monopoly in lithography machines because apparently it's too had to make
2022-06-25T21:14:22 < [itchyjunk]> hard*
2022-06-25T21:14:26 < mawk> ASML yeah
2022-06-25T21:14:38 < mawk> a recruiter tried to make me work there
2022-06-25T21:15:11 < [itchyjunk]> why would you turn that down?
2022-06-25T21:17:33 < mawk> I wanted to work in Delft
2022-06-25T21:18:07 < [itchyjunk]> idk what that is either
2022-06-25T21:19:41 < mawk> a city lol
2022-06-25T21:19:57 < mawk> near The Hague and Rotterdam
2022-06-25T21:20:21 < [itchyjunk]> What have you done with stm32?
2022-06-25T21:22:04 < mawk> our main product is using stm32
2022-06-25T21:22:41 < mawk> and i coded some stuff on it for myself
2022-06-25T21:22:45 < mawk> but nothing really interesting
2022-06-25T21:23:03 < [itchyjunk]> oh your work uses it, interesting
2022-06-25T21:23:13 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-25T21:23:17 < mawk> and esp32 now too but I don't like it
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2022-06-25T21:29:41 < Steffanx> Why did you use it?
2022-06-25T21:29:48 < Steffanx> Because it was the only thing available?
2022-06-25T21:30:53 < mawk> because it came from a student project
2022-06-25T21:30:59 < mawk> and it was easy to give arduino shieeet to students
2022-06-25T21:31:17 < mawk> and we needed a wifi + ethernet board and esp32 was easy choice apparently
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2022-06-25T21:44:14 < englishman> asml invested 60 billion dollars over 30 years to make their machines. Yeah the technology is exclusive
2022-06-25T21:44:50 < hexo_> there's a youtube document about their EUV machines
2022-06-25T21:44:55 < hexo_> it's magic af
2022-06-25T21:45:41 < [itchyjunk]> I don't quite get why. But I guess "it's very complicated" is the answer.
2022-06-25T21:46:06 < [itchyjunk]> (why it's so hard to do lithography or w/e they wanna do )
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2022-06-25T22:18:40 < qyx> I would say litography is not the keyword there
2022-06-25T22:18:48 < qyx> but nanometer scale is
2022-06-25T22:18:57 < hexo_> what is "w/e"?
2022-06-25T22:20:20 < qyx> whatever?
2022-06-25T22:21:01 < hexo_> lol. very hard word to write indeed :D
2022-06-25T22:22:09 < hexo_> [itchyjunk]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ge2RcvDlgw
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--- Day changed su kesä 26 2022
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2022-06-26T00:37:56 < kaki> eveningz
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2022-06-26T00:57:02 < hexo_> howdy
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2022-06-26T01:09:49 < catphish> evenung
2022-06-26T01:17:07 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY0QGk3KXbs musics
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2022-06-26T01:53:21 < catphish> ovartech provide their charger with lovely preterminated plugs with 1m long pigtails for all connectors
2022-06-26T01:53:47 < catphish> unfortunately, one of those cables contains an unterminated CAN bus
2022-06-26T01:54:47 < catphish> so i'l going to have to pull apart their lovely loom and replace it with a *pair* of CAN pairs to mimimize that stub
2022-06-26T01:55:39 < catphish> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0607/9699/3689/products/PXL_20220324_154848349_360x.jpg?v=1648137364
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2022-06-26T07:23:40 < englishman> the basis of asml technology is firing 100 kW+ co2 10.6nm laser into a tin plasma that emits about 200 W of 12 nm laser light
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2022-06-26T07:24:12 < tabemann> I have a question about communication via SPI between an STM32L476 and an RP2040
2022-06-26T07:26:04 < tabemann> specifically communication is only possible if I set CPHA to 1 on both and I set CPOL on the L4 (the master) to 0 and on the RP2040 (the slave) to 1
2022-06-26T07:26:20 < tabemann> and even then, the first 16 bits the master receives are 0's
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2022-06-26T07:27:26 < tabemann> if I set CPHA to 0 communication isn't possible at all, and I only receive garbage on either end if CPOL is set any differently
2022-06-26T07:27:49 < tabemann> note that the RP2040 can communicate with itself just fine when both CPHA and CPOL are set to 0
2022-06-26T07:28:43 < tabemann> and I've tried similar arrangements with F407, F411, and F746's talking to themselves with both CPHA and CPOL set to 1 on both ends without a problem
2022-06-26T07:30:25 < tabemann> note that I don't have a problem when using TI SPI rather than Motorola SPI
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2022-06-26T09:01:43 < qyx> did you scope the signals?
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2022-06-26T09:14:19 < jpa-> tabemann: on STM32 remember to disable the SPI in the CR before changing CPHA/CPOL, otherwise it gets confused
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2022-06-26T15:43:28 < josuah> I am trying to identify the author of an article, but I cannot remember who that was, not even sure it was from this chan...
2022-06-26T15:44:57 < josuah> https://paste.josuah.net/LhbQ4a64HJvEPpk0ybab/article.txt
2022-06-26T15:45:39 < josuah> in my blurry memory, it was sent here, as plain lines, one by one over IRC
2022-06-26T15:46:50 < josuah> I reformatted it a bit, and inlined the text
2022-06-26T15:47:27 < josuah> if you happen to know the author, I'd be glad to offer him to put its signature, or veto its publication
2022-06-26T15:48:15 < josuah> maybe it was in #avrs or #avr or even somewhere else
2022-06-26T15:49:39 < josuah> tabemann: I did scope SPI of an RP2040 once, and figured out that my CPHA was wrong, and I had CS going up and down between every byte
2022-06-26T15:59:28 < Steffanx> I googled a semi random line of the core and it shows a pdf on rue Mohr's website. Not unlikely it was him
2022-06-26T15:59:32 < Steffanx> Code*
2022-06-26T16:01:01 < josuah> yes, found this too! https://github.com/ruenahcmohr/max7219fft/blob/master/FOUR1.for
2022-06-26T16:01:15 < josuah> Steffanx: great search method! thanks I'm getting closer :)
2022-06-26T16:03:42 < Steffanx> "FORTRAN IV PLACES THEM" is what I googled. It shows all kinds of pdfs. Rues one won't download here though 
2022-06-26T16:06:19 < Steffanx> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/datasheets/four1-fortran.pdf
2022-06-26T16:07:37 < jpa-> i grepped the logs but can't see the code lines having been posted here
2022-06-26T16:08:28 < Steffanx> That rue guy is active in #avr and stuff
2022-06-26T16:09:12 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/MX8/plain   i did find this from ##electronics logs, but no direct reference to the code there
2022-06-26T16:12:47 < Steffanx> Lol two IRC grandpas. Rue and flyback.
2022-06-26T16:23:13 < Steffanx> "and nobody knows how it works except me" yeah.
2022-06-26T16:26:59 < mawk> lol
2022-06-26T16:27:10 < mawk> kinda presomptuous
2022-06-26T16:40:16 < Steffanx> Its math so mawk understands
2022-06-26T17:01:51 < josuah> Steffanx, jpa-: thanks for looking that up!
2022-06-26T17:02:11 < josuah> Steffanx: I asked him here
2022-06-26T17:03:24 < josuah> jpa-: it looks like it, I'll wait its "GO" for publishing it then :)
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2022-06-26T17:50:03 < qyx> the Rue guy is active on twatter too, quite verbose
2022-06-26T17:50:12 < Steffanx> yeah..
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2022-06-26T22:14:03 < catphish> kaki: box today! https://imgur.com/a/CHJ7g8C i spent all day running wires and making up looms, tomorrow i have to splice a LOT of wires :)
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2022-06-26T23:36:09 < zyp> jpa-, got an experimental SWO capture running here at 35 Mb/s now (70 Mbaud manchester mode with autobaud)
2022-06-26T23:37:46 < zyp> it's currently limited by the decoder running in a 75 MHz clock domain, input itself is oversampled at 400 MS/s and can probably be increased to 500 MS/s
--- Day changed ma kesä 27 2022
2022-06-27T00:39:44 < mawk> I don't get how to make a timer simply output a waveform on a pin
2022-06-27T00:39:59 < mawk> I made an OC channel in mode TIM_OCMODE_TIMING
2022-06-27T00:40:02 < mawk> but nothing happens
2022-06-27T00:42:28 < mawk> what am I missing??¿¿¿
2022-06-27T00:42:42 < mawk> I enabled CEN
2022-06-27T00:45:59 < mawk> zyp :'(
2022-06-27T00:49:46 < qyx> wavbeform?
2022-06-27T00:49:56 < zyp> is this TIM1 or TIM8?
2022-06-27T00:50:00 < qyx> pwm1 mode?
2022-06-27T00:50:05 < zyp> they've got a master output enable bit that also needs to be set
2022-06-27T00:50:28 < qyx> that too
2022-06-27T00:51:52 < hexo_> zyp: that SWO... are you using some fpga?
2022-06-27T00:53:11 < zyp> hexo_, yeah, this: https://store.zyp.no/product/orbtrace-mini
2022-06-27T00:53:58 < hexo_> very nice!
2022-06-27T00:55:00 < hexo_> i have just lattice ice40 eval stick, was wondering if this kind of magic is possible with that :D
2022-06-27T00:55:39 < zyp> the icestick? probably too small to fit much logic :)
2022-06-27T00:55:51 < hexo_> yea icestick :)
2022-06-27T00:56:16 < hexo_> its only 1k gate or, so, very tiny
2022-06-27T00:56:42 < zyp> the orbtrace project had some code for ice40hx8 before I got into it, but that was only for parallel trace
2022-06-27T01:05:04 < catphish> kaki is gone and doesn't even care about today's box :(
2022-06-27T01:11:55 < Steffanx> Kaki is farming.
2022-06-27T01:13:03 < catphish> exciting
2022-06-27T01:15:01 < kaki> here
2022-06-27T01:15:05 < kaki> box now?
2022-06-27T01:16:19 < kaki> catphish: box
2022-06-27T01:18:27 < mawk> TIM1 zyp 
2022-06-27T01:18:32 < mawk> ah right I'll look at that
2022-06-27T01:18:36 < mawk> thanks
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2022-06-27T01:18:56 < mawk> qyx just a clock signal 
2022-06-27T01:19:29 < mawk> PWM with 50% duty cycle if we want to say it's PWM
2022-06-27T01:22:03 < kaki> catphish: spent extra hour in sauna
2022-06-27T01:22:40 < mawk> your skin is wrinkly now kaki
2022-06-27T01:23:22 < kaki> no I lost 4kg of my weight as water mawk
2022-06-27T01:23:31 < mawk> nice
2022-06-27T01:25:18 < kaki> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C9e5-dRFwKtJmWRvlW-uFwsB4axhwIWm/view?usp=sharing took tractor selfie using low sun
2022-06-27T01:28:52 < catphish> kaki: box today! https://imgur.com/a/CHJ7g8C i spent all day running wires and making up looms, tomorrow i have to splice a LOT of wires :)
2022-06-27T01:29:44 < kaki> that foam thing
2022-06-27T01:30:00 < kaki> it looks unnerving
2022-06-27T01:30:04 < catphish> foam thing is a bit fucked
2022-06-27T01:30:21 < catphish> it's original
2022-06-27T01:30:31 < kaki> but it has those sheet edge plastic shields under that?
2022-06-27T01:30:42 < kaki> like above
2022-06-27T01:30:51 < catphish> kaki: weirdly no
2022-06-27T01:31:02 < catphish> maybe i should add something
2022-06-27T01:31:50 < kaki> that rubbery thing that is on all kinds of sheet edges
2022-06-27T01:32:20 < kaki> that has internal steel springy thing to clamp into the edge
2022-06-27T01:33:07 < kaki> that foam has more cables and load to it than it used to?
2022-06-27T01:34:13 < kaki> but it cables are placed in such way they kinda hold themselfs
2022-06-27T01:34:26 < catphish> yes, 3x more cables :)
2022-06-27T01:34:36 < kaki> aligned to center of that hole
2022-06-27T01:34:46 < catphish> yes indeed
2022-06-27T01:35:03 < catphish> but the foam is quite disintegrated :(
2022-06-27T01:35:22 < catphish> well, top is bad, bottom is still tough
2022-06-27T01:35:36 < kaki> if there wasn't foam would cables stay there or fall to edge of that hole?
2022-06-27T01:36:06 < catphish> they'd probably stay, they're cabled tied tight on both sides
2022-06-27T01:36:21 < catphish> though i did cable ties after foam, so not certain which is supporting the cables
2022-06-27T01:37:13 < zyp> jpa-, with a bit more work it's now working seemingly reliably up to 48 Mb/s
2022-06-27T01:37:23 < catphish> i'm actually worrying about something unrelated this evening, lateral movement of the batteries
2022-06-27T01:38:20 < catphish> there's a gap at each side of the battery box, and i pushed some packing material down each side to stop the batteries sliding sideways, but i don't think it's enough
2022-06-27T01:38:51 < catphish> i think i'm going to remove bus bars and install firmer side cushioning material
2022-06-27T01:39:10 < kaki> is any movement allowed?
2022-06-27T01:39:27 < catphish> else at 1g cornering, 60kg is supported by battery terminal
2022-06-27T01:39:45 < catphish> movement isn't allowed, they're held at top by fixed terminals
2022-06-27T01:39:47 < kaki> maybe you should add hard stops
2022-06-27T01:39:57 < kaki> to bottom and to clamps
2022-06-27T01:39:59 < catphish> yes i agree, i'll measure and 3d print some blocks
2022-06-27T01:40:13 < kaki> at least bottom
2022-06-27T01:40:54 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/38iegOC
2022-06-27T01:41:02 < catphish> gap at sides ^
2022-06-27T01:41:35 < catphish> supported by bus bars at top, but needs hard support at bottom and top
2022-06-27T01:41:47 < catphish> i will remove bus bars and install stops
2022-06-27T01:42:55 < catphish> i realised today that even under normal cornering they may be subjected to 1g, which is a combined weight of 60kg laterally
2022-06-27T01:43:38 < catphish> which is too much for the 2x bus bar terminals
2022-06-27T01:44:27 < catphish> i thought of this before and shoved some packing material in the gaps, but i now think i need to do it better
2022-06-27T01:44:43 < kaki> certainly
2022-06-27T01:44:59 < catphish> i hope tomorrow i will weld shafts and do wire splicing
2022-06-27T01:45:09 < kaki> combine 1g with bumpy road surface
2022-06-27T01:45:23 < catphish> will also measure those battery gaps to 3d print some hard spacers
2022-06-27T01:45:54 < kaki> clamping force of those clamps will greatly fluctuate as box flexes on bumps
2022-06-27T01:46:47 < catphish> there probably won't be many bumps on a 1g corner
2022-06-27T01:46:49 < catphish> but yes
2022-06-27T01:47:25 < kaki> you can corner 1g and then hit a bump and then not be cornering at 1g anymore
2022-06-27T01:47:58 < catphish> well yes
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2022-06-27T01:54:32 < kaki> you need to support tops of the cells too
2022-06-27T02:17:49 < catphish> i think supporting the middle will suffice
2022-06-27T02:18:55 < catphish> but middle+top would be best
2022-06-27T02:19:22 < catphish> middle to stop them actually sliding, and top to reduce any possibility of stress on terminal
2022-06-27T02:19:39 < kaki> sidewall doesn't have any strength for lateral motion else than in bottom
2022-06-27T02:19:50 < kaki> because of the bottom sheet
2022-06-27T02:19:53 < catphish> that's a good point
2022-06-27T02:20:37 < catphish> maybe a better option would just be to increase clamping force applied from top
2022-06-27T02:21:19 < catphish> i'd actually forgotten that existed, it will do a lot of the necessary support
2022-06-27T02:21:26 < kaki> top of the wall has some via clamping bars and battery cells
2022-06-27T02:22:07 < catphish> clamping bars add a lot of strength to top
2022-06-27T02:22:29 < catphish> well then i guess i should aim for top+bottom then
2022-06-27T02:23:06 < kaki> but without cells to translate the force to bottom sheet you have just 2 sidewalls tied and displasing together
2022-06-27T02:23:19 < kaki> displacing*
2022-06-27T02:23:25 < catphish> i think top and bottom will be easy too
2022-06-27T02:23:40 < kaki> yes
2022-06-27T02:23:47 < kaki> middle seems like an hassle
2022-06-27T02:24:36 < catphish> yes, bottom i literally just need to print some blocks, top i can print hats that sit on the bus bars
2022-06-27T02:24:53 < catphish> middle is definitely too much hassle
2022-06-27T02:25:25 < catphish> i will take the opportunity to remove the unused coolant pipes
2022-06-27T02:25:53 < catphish> actually no i won't, i'll leave them in, might still want to use them one day
2022-06-27T02:26:25 < catphish> might even be able to get blocks in without removing the batteries, removing them isn't very fun
2022-06-27T02:35:48 < kaki> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HjKiuPLAt33nqBPmups-rRGst_OSpddV/view?usp=sharing catphish?
2022-06-27T02:44:13 < kaki> those front and back walls can take quite a lot of lateral force from top to bottom
2022-06-27T02:46:45 < kaki> for front and back cells it's not a problem because if you place hard stop right next to wall it's basically same as the wall
2022-06-27T02:47:54 < kaki> you have a lid with tight fit for the box?
2022-06-27T02:49:24 < kaki> if it was really tight fit it could translate forces from top middle -> opposing corners -> sidewalls -> bottom
2022-06-27T02:50:21 < kaki> if it wasn't tight fit you could still make it tight fit with plastic padding
2022-06-27T02:53:55 < kaki> make countersunk holes to plastic and then use rivets to install padding
2022-06-27T02:54:45 < catphish> yes, there's a tight fitting lid
2022-06-27T02:55:00 < kaki> excelent
2022-06-27T02:55:31 < kaki> it's important structural part!
2022-06-27T02:55:40 < catphish> yes indeed
2022-06-27T02:56:18 < catphish> the modules are packed tightly front to back, and clamped down, this should mean that the only movement i need to worry about is pure lateral sliding
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2022-06-27T02:56:58 < kaki> and or lateral rotation
2022-06-27T02:57:00 < catphish> and even that is mitigated my friction, i'm not worrying excessively about the structure
2022-06-27T02:57:28 < catphish> i don't think lateral rotation is possible, not with the clamp
2022-06-27T02:58:15 < catphish> i suppose a small amount is possible
2022-06-27T02:58:31 < catphish> so if bottom is stopped, top should be too
2022-06-27T02:58:48 < kaki> hm
2022-06-27T02:59:10 < kaki> yes
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2022-06-27T03:02:25 < kaki> probs can take forces of driving
2022-06-27T03:02:38 < kaki> but concider a crash
2022-06-27T03:03:30 < catphish> i'm not planning any of those
2022-06-27T03:04:19 < kaki> usually people don't plan crashes
2022-06-27T03:05:08 < catphish> that was the joke
2022-06-27T03:05:52 < kaki> burnout gone wrong rear wheel hits curb
2022-06-27T03:06:26 < kaki> something simple like that
2022-06-27T03:07:13 < kaki> momentarilly dozens of Gs
2022-06-27T03:10:59 < kaki> I would rather have hard stops around terminals in such situation
2022-06-27T03:11:12 < catphish> yeah that seems sensible
2022-06-27T03:11:44 < catphish> i'll see what i can print up
2022-06-27T03:12:10 < kaki> it might break terminals and cells and stuff but at least keep distance to wall
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2022-06-27T07:36:28 < jpa-> zyp: sounds very nice!
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2022-06-27T10:01:19 < mawk> how do I do to have a timer update frequency close to what I want
2022-06-27T10:01:31 < mawk> when the frequency I want doesn't divide evenly the timer clock 
2022-06-27T10:01:41 < mawk> I want 38.222 kHz and timer clock is 80MHz
2022-06-27T10:01:53 < mawk> if I divide the two I get 2093.0354246245615 which isn't a really great round number
2022-06-27T10:02:13 < rajkosto> you can divide by constant and then multiply by constant
2022-06-27T10:02:29 < mawk> how do I multiply by constant?
2022-06-27T10:03:41 < mawk> the prescaler divides the frequency, and the ARR divides the frequency as well
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2022-06-27T11:03:08 < Steffanx>  And 38222.6 isn't close enough to 38222 Hz ?
2022-06-27T11:04:22 < zyp> mawk, run the timer from some multiple of 38222
2022-06-27T11:06:29 < zyp> or you can do some sort of dithering where you add or remove one to the period count per period
2022-06-27T11:08:31 < zyp> 38222 factors to 2*29*659, good luck generating that exactly
2022-06-27T11:20:33 < qyx> maybe select a suitable MCU if you know such requirement?
2022-06-27T11:20:51 < qyx> there are some with fractional pll
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2022-06-27T11:57:39 < jpa-> you can dma into timer arr to get dithering / fractional divider
2022-06-27T11:58:30 < jpa-> but your difference is 17 ppm so almost as good as average xtal
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2022-06-27T13:03:26 < karlp> how did you come up with 38.222 anyway?
2022-06-27T13:09:41 < josuah> would it be a thing to have ticks like this (not to scale, one char per CPU tick, one '|,  |____|___|
2022-06-27T13:09:51 < josuah> aah no sorry it left too soon!
2022-06-27T13:11:14 < jpa-> that's exactly what dithering / fractional divider is
2022-06-27T13:11:23 < josuah> would it be a thing to have ticks like this (not to scale, one char per CPU tick, one '|' per divided clock tick, 'X' are inserted delays),  |____|____|____X|____|____|____X|____|____|____X|____|____X|____X|
2022-06-27T13:12:04 < josuah> ^ 66/13
2022-06-27T13:12:12 < josuah> jpa-: thank you, I did not have the name for it
2022-06-27T13:13:20 < josuah> how to come-up to such a thing without using expensive float integer division...
2022-06-27T13:13:41 < karlp> get a proper mcu with hw divider....
2022-06-27T13:13:49 < josuah> haha yeah :)
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2022-06-27T13:18:55 < karlp> "If a wheel detaches from the vehicle while driving, it could result in a loss of vehicle control, increasing the risk of a crash."
2022-06-27T13:19:22 < josuah> talk about pedantic documentation
2022-06-27T13:19:27 < karlp> https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-recall-involving-2023-model-year-bz4x-vehicles/
2022-06-27T13:20:08 < josuah> yet these kind of statement could help figuring out things like "oh cr*p I forgot to add a condition for when the whell went away in the controller collecting the tire pressure"
2022-06-27T13:21:03 < jpa-> josuah:   uint64_t x = 0;  void timer_irq(){ x+= target_freq; if (x>timer_irq_freq) { x-= timer_irq_freq; do_something(); }
2022-06-27T13:21:41 < jpa-> hw accel with dma left for homework
2022-06-27T13:21:45 < josuah> ooh, an accumulator!
2022-06-27T13:22:19 < josuah> save the overshoot for the next run
2022-06-27T13:22:43  * josuah learns dithering 101
2022-06-27T14:02:27 < englishman> wow karl, also concerning that there is no fix
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2022-06-27T14:49:50 < karlp> cant' sw upgrade the wheels falling off :)
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2022-06-27T15:21:38 < milkylainen_> Does the stm32mp1x pick up the otp regs for pkh if downstream tf-a is built with ARM_ROTPK_LOCATION=regs?
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2022-06-27T15:59:15 < mawk> karlp: it's the NEC infrared protocol carrier frequency
2022-06-27T16:00:39 < karlp> what's it's normally made with, some oddjob crystal?
2022-06-27T16:03:00 < qyx> I would say anything from 38 to 38.5 k works
2022-06-27T16:04:16 < karlp> it's not just a modulation? does it really matter if it's anywhere from like 35-40? like most ir remotes?
2022-06-27T16:05:57 < Laurenceb_> I need to try MP1
2022-06-27T16:06:04 < Laurenceb_> openAMP looks pretty cool
2022-06-27T16:06:34 < Laurenceb_> but in principle you could run lunix and a realtime task on a single core using openamp
2022-06-27T16:06:54 < Laurenceb_> hmm this could maybe be done on Rpi
2022-06-27T16:08:25 < drzacek> hello there
2022-06-27T16:08:34 < Xogium> working with one of them myself atm. Honestly, working with an open platform is so much better than with a closed rpi -- I don't count the rpi open firmware
2022-06-27T16:09:54 < drzacek> on L452 (and others, I assume) - if I see in an2606 that it has multiple "bootloaders" - uart, spi, can, etc - do I understand correctly that it just cycles through peripherals and check if someone is sending on said periphery? so no need to configure anything to work with uart when I set the BOOT pins properly and resetted??
2022-06-27T16:10:03 < karlp> correct
2022-06-27T16:10:12 < drzacek> also in what world AMP is not a shortcut for amplifier/amplifying or something?
2022-06-27T16:11:14 < drzacek> karlp, so if the table says it can work with usart1, 2 and 3, I can just take either of those 
2022-06-27T16:11:21 < karlp> yup
2022-06-27T16:11:24 < drzacek> neat
2022-06-27T16:18:09 < milkylainen_> Anyone? TF-A ROTPK_LOCATION?
2022-06-27T16:23:40 < qyx> no
2022-06-27T16:24:22 < qyx> I understand it nobody sane is using tf-a because either it is a mess or it is a mess
2022-06-27T16:30:36 < Xogium> qyx: so what do you use ? U-boot spl ?
2022-06-27T16:31:08 < milkylainen_> I don't really understand. What is your suggestion that I use instead?
2022-06-27T16:31:21 < milkylainen_> Straight Linux from EL3? :)
2022-06-27T16:31:33 < Xogium> sounds hardcore to do, that one
2022-06-27T16:31:36 < milkylainen_> With init slapped on top? :)
2022-06-27T16:32:51 < Xogium> fwiw I use ATF, but in basic mode kinda, no optee
2022-06-27T16:32:52 < milkylainen_> Bootloader in stm32mp1 is extra. TF-A does ddr init etc. Linux kernel is supported straight as Non-secure world OS. No need for U-boot or similar.
2022-06-27T16:33:13 < Xogium> I went back to basic ATF because the optee stuff, now that is what I call a mess
2022-06-27T16:33:18 < milkylainen_> Xogium: well. You can still use TBBR and encrypted blobs in a FIP even with SP_MIN.
2022-06-27T16:33:26 < milkylainen_> No need for optee.
2022-06-27T16:33:30 < Xogium> ah ? Didn't know
2022-06-27T16:34:20 < Xogium> milkylainen_: did you manage to do that ? Linux booting straight after fsbl ?
2022-06-27T16:34:42 < milkylainen_> Op-tee might become a more required option in the future. If they move the services from sp_min and tf-a into op-tee... then yeah. op-tee would become a hard requirement.
2022-06-27T16:35:20 < Xogium> milkylainen_: yep that's what they are doing for openstlinux 4.0. They cannot handle porting optee and sp_min and such all at once
2022-06-27T16:35:55 < milkylainen_> Xogium: Didn't try it myself. But I should. Requires a tf-a option to be enabled though.
2022-06-27T16:36:02 < milkylainen_> iirc.
2022-06-27T16:36:33 < Xogium> I tried
2022-06-27T16:36:42 < Xogium> at least with vendor things
2022-06-27T16:37:05 < Xogium> that are as yet, not released. You can try it, but they can be very unstable and in my case it didn't work
2022-06-27T16:37:31 < Xogium> openstlinux 4.0 should be released officially in the coming weeks though, so I'll wait until then
2022-06-27T16:38:06 < Xogium> it will have optee as default, but you can switch back to pure ATF. Next year however, no way around optee
2022-06-27T16:38:25 < milkylainen_> ARM_LINUX_KERNEL_AS_BL33 ?
2022-06-27T16:38:39 < Xogium> huh :O didn't know that was even a thing
2022-06-27T16:39:47 < Xogium> got a friend at st, and I've been told many things ;) that's how I know optee will by the default onwards, and sp_min's going out the door
2022-06-27T16:40:16 < milkylainen_> Yeah. op-tee hard req. is going to be a pain.
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2022-06-27T16:40:36 < milkylainen_> 99% of users don't really care. And the environment has become stupid complex.
2022-06-27T16:41:02 < Xogium> yeah, I don't like it, honestly. But they don't have enough resources to maintain both sp_min and optee at the same time
2022-06-27T16:41:44 < jpa-> Steffanx: did you get hit by tornado?
2022-06-27T16:42:08 < Xogium> though
2022-06-27T16:42:23 < Xogium> its not because you use optee that a full secure boot setup is enforced
2022-06-27T16:42:32 < Xogium> you can have it behave mostly the same as sp_min did
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2022-06-27T16:43:19 < milkylainen_> absolutely. It's just that building the damn init before you get to the world you care about has become so much more complex.
2022-06-27T16:43:34 < Xogium> yep
2022-06-27T16:43:44 < milkylainen_> Xogium: In the early days you stacked Linux on top of the CPU reset address and off you went. :)
2022-06-27T16:43:46 < Xogium> fip image, all that
2022-06-27T16:44:07 < milkylainen_> Now you have ROM, TF-A, OP-TEE, U-Boot before you even get to the kernel.
2022-06-27T16:44:12 < milkylainen_> 4 new ecosystems.
2022-06-27T16:44:29 < Xogium> yeah
2022-06-27T16:46:06 < Xogium> still bl33 being linux sounds really difficult to do ? How do you set the kernel command line, etc ?
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2022-06-27T16:47:07 < milkylainen_> Xogium: I guess it's mostly dtb, the rest of atags etc stuff is gone in that case.
2022-06-27T16:47:21 < milkylainen_> You'll load the non-secure world dtb in the fip.
2022-06-27T16:47:31 < milkylainen_> ntos-cfg.
2022-06-27T16:47:38 < milkylainen_> or whatever it's called.
2022-06-27T16:47:40 < PaulFertser> milkylainen_: what popular boards could run Linux from reset vector?
2022-06-27T16:48:00 < Xogium> oh yeah I keep forgetting you can set a command line in a dt
2022-06-27T16:48:01 < milkylainen_> PaulFertser: not many. Linux never stacked much initialization.
2022-06-27T16:48:15 < milkylainen_> PaulFertser: You'd have to do some of your own magic first. :)
2022-06-27T16:49:28 < Xogium> still I like having a ssbl ;) makes it easier to work with stuff like rauc
2022-06-27T16:49:38 < milkylainen_> I used a PPC once that had some initialization stacked early on iirc.
2022-06-27T16:50:27 < milkylainen_> Xogium: never used rauc. probably never will. :P
2022-06-27T16:50:39 < Xogium> oh, swupdate then ?
2022-06-27T16:51:09 < milkylainen_> Nope. Not invented by me. :P
2022-06-27T16:51:16 < Xogium> ah :D
2022-06-27T16:53:46 < milkylainen_> I use my own autorollback, n-slotted redundancy loading mechanism.
2022-06-27T16:54:19 < milkylainen_> Ported it to barebox, u-boot and once upon the time, redboot.
2022-06-27T16:54:51 < milkylainen_> Very much off topic discussion though.
2022-06-27T16:55:28 < milkylainen_> Would be interested if anyone knew if the stm32 code allowed reading the OTP regs for the ROTPK hash for TBBR Cot in TF-A :)
2022-06-27T16:56:23 < Xogium> nice
2022-06-27T16:56:32 < Xogium> well its partially OT
2022-06-27T16:56:41 < Xogium> seeing as its stm32 ;p
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2022-06-27T17:01:25 < milkylainen_> stm32mp1x :)
2022-06-27T17:01:34 < milkylainen_> sorry about that.
2022-06-27T17:10:23 < Steffanx> We call it a windhoos, and not close to me, more close to mawk.
2022-06-27T17:10:31 < Steffanx> Mr jpa.
2022-06-27T17:10:50 < Steffanx> So I'm alive jpa-  
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2022-06-27T17:47:34 < qyx> milkylainen_: what's wrong with u-boot spl?
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2022-06-27T19:59:52 < milkylainen_> qyx: Nothing?
2022-06-27T20:32:05 < qyx> oh it was Xogium 
2022-06-27T20:32:28 < qyx> no my suggestion is to use anything well documented and upstreamed
2022-06-27T20:32:40 < qyx> which is not the case of mp1
2022-06-27T20:34:31 < qyx> imx6, sama5d27, f1c100s, mt7688, etc.. all were running as required in less than a single day
2022-06-27T20:34:53 < milkylainen_> I'd say the same about all ARM systems. Dysfunctional in one way or another. Like every other system. :)
2022-06-27T20:34:55 < qyx> with mp1 I spent 3 days just to run spl on a custom board
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2022-06-27T21:40:09 < mawk> even with master output enable thing it doesn't output anything on the OC channel zyp 
2022-06-27T21:44:17 < mawk> hmmmmmm I think I found
2022-06-27T21:46:33 < mawk> no still doesn't work
2022-06-27T22:03:49 < Steffanx> youre doing it wrong
2022-06-27T22:05:28 < Steffanx> did you rotate your flag 90 degrees more out of solidarity with the farmers mawk?
2022-06-27T22:06:11 < mawk> :(
2022-06-27T22:06:55 < Steffanx> as in dutch flag upside down
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2022-06-27T22:34:31 < qyx> did mawk copy his example in hurry?
2022-06-27T22:35:01 < qyx> check if your stm32 has the timer you are trying to access
2022-06-27T22:35:06 < qyx> been there..
2022-06-27T22:35:53 < mawk> yeah it's generated from cubez
2022-06-27T22:35:56 < mawk> it has the timer, it's TIM1
2022-06-27T22:37:19 < qyx> did you set main break output?
2022-06-27T22:37:28 < qyx> or whatever it is called
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2022-06-27T22:39:05 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-27T22:39:11 < mawk> but break isn't even eabled
2022-06-27T22:39:26 < mawk> I'll scrap this cube shit and set the registers myself to see what happens
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2022-06-27T22:47:26 < Steffanx> if mawk maybe shared a little more of what was doing instead of us dropping random possible solutions at him
2022-06-27T22:47:59 < mawk> jdfgiojfdigojfdig
2022-06-27T22:48:01 < mawk> it works
2022-06-27T22:48:10 < mawk> it was the cable between the LA and the mcu that was defective
2022-06-27T22:48:23 < mawk> Steffanx: just trying random parameters in cube and clicking "generate"
2022-06-27T22:49:49 < Steffanx> Ah
2022-06-27T22:49:54 < Steffanx> Lolol
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2022-06-27T22:58:38 < mawk> now I have to find how to use DMA to vary the time between each pulse
2022-06-27T23:01:49 < qyx> you are complicating your life
2022-06-27T23:02:57 < qyx> set your prescaler to 0, your ARR to 2093-1 and you are done
2022-06-27T23:03:21 < qyx> thats 38222.65, nobody is gonna complain
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2022-06-27T23:08:33 < mawk> yeah I'm not saying that for that qyx 
2022-06-27T23:08:38 < mawk> I already gave up on the exact frequency
2022-06-27T23:09:02 < mawk> now I have to use that 38.222kHz carrier frequency to make pulses of around 500µs
2022-06-27T23:09:04 < mawk> to encode the data
2022-06-27T23:09:27 < mawk> 500µs followed by 500µs of nothing is a 0, and 500µs followed by 1000µs of nothing is a 1
2022-06-27T23:09:51 < mawk> and during the 500µs when it's on it's just toggling on and off at 38.222kHz 
2022-06-27T23:10:46 < BrainDamage> are you making a pps signal?
2022-06-27T23:11:04 < BrainDamage> ah, nvm, us, not ms
2022-06-27T23:11:38 < mawk> pps?
2022-06-27T23:11:51 < mawk> it's NEC protocol
2022-06-27T23:15:47 < qyx> mawk there is a timer gating mode in stm32 exactly for that purpose
2022-06-27T23:15:54 < qyx> iirc even usart output -> timer
2022-06-27T23:16:22 < mawk> ah yeah
2022-06-27T23:16:30 < mawk> I'll try that
2022-06-27T23:19:33 < mawk> americans don't have to worry about the end of abortion, they just have to wait a few years and the child will get killed at school
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2022-06-27T23:31:43 < hexo_> please, what's the size of flash page on stm32f030?
2022-06-27T23:31:48 < hexo_> is it really 1kB?
2022-06-27T23:33:25 < hexo_> seems like
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2022-06-27T23:49:06 < qyx> it is variable
2022-06-27T23:49:18 < qyx> asi in, different size on every stm32
2022-06-27T23:49:31 < qyx> and even different size on the same chip
2022-06-27T23:49:58 < qyx> oh you are asking about f030
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--- Day changed ti kesä 28 2022
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2022-06-28T00:50:16 < mawk> woooow it works
2022-06-28T00:50:42 < mawk> https://serveur.io/ksnip_20220627-235025.png
2022-06-28T00:50:43 < mawk> such beauty
2022-06-28T00:51:14 < mawk> incommensurable charm
2022-06-28T00:52:14 < mawk> but I don't get the relation between frequencies of master and slave
2022-06-28T00:52:44 < mawk> master is supposed to be 500Hz, and slave 10kHz
2022-06-28T00:53:22 < mawk> nevermind it's fine I can't count
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2022-06-28T01:06:34 < Steffanx> I'm proud of you mawk 
2022-06-28T01:23:12 < mawk> hmmmmm but the pin state is random when the slave is "off" now
2022-06-28T01:23:21 < mawk> if frequencies do not evenly divide each other
2022-06-28T01:23:24 < mawk> how do I fix this
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2022-06-28T01:52:26 < mawk> there is one-pulse-mode with a repetition counter to make a fixed number of pulses
2022-06-28T01:52:30 < mawk> but it doesn't go very high
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2022-06-28T01:55:39 < mawk> hmm maybe it can be enough
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2022-06-28T02:24:21 < mawk> I'll guess I'll make a post on ST forum and see what they say
2022-06-28T02:25:48 < mawk> oh maybe chaining three counters together, with the bottom timer being in one pulse mode
2022-06-28T02:25:57 < mawk> but it's getting complex 
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2022-06-28T07:20:14 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone used this -> https://www.dataq.com/products/di-1100/ ?
2022-06-28T07:20:48 < ColdKeyboard> Are there better tools for current data/voltage logging?
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2022-06-28T11:01:35 < mawk> so how do I make so my gated slave timer output channel stays at ground when it's not being activated?
2022-06-28T11:01:42 < mawk> now the idle state is random or so
2022-06-28T11:22:07 < mawk> it stays on the last state
2022-06-28T11:23:13 < mawk> so if the timer is stopped after an odd number of slave periods it will invert its idle state
2022-06-28T11:24:09 < mawk> too bad I can't use two input triggers for one slave, I could reset the timer
2022-06-28T11:27:35 < mawk> I can use the break signal but it's a bit dirty and needs an external pin connection 
2022-06-28T11:29:26 < mawk> hmmm actually TIM1 has two output triggers, I could use it to reset the timer
2022-06-28T11:29:30 < mawk> I'll try that
2022-06-28T12:04:13 < jpa-> IIRC you can also use the control signal in reset mode to force the count to remain 0, and then setup pwm mode so that it is off when cnt=0
2022-06-28T12:43:20 < karlp> fucking, bought a usb-c-c cable on mouser, labelled as 22 contact, apparently that only meant the contacts in the plugs.  only 6 wires inside :| 
2022-06-28T12:43:43 < karlp> thought I was struggling with assembling the usb-c socket, but no..... that was fun, should have trusted my soldering more.
2022-06-28T12:50:04 < specing> loool
2022-06-28T12:51:10 < karlp> I'm also starting to feel that using the SBU pins may have been a mistake.  piles of cheap connectors for them, but even expensive usb3.1 cables just not including the wires.
2022-06-28T12:52:24 < karlp> like this is a fancy 17€ CUI usb3.1 cable: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/meoKQ.png
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2022-06-28T13:29:50 < karlp> so.. wthf is china doing with SBU pins on all these connectors? it's not like them to put things on that you don't need...
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2022-06-28T14:22:34 < benishor> refused order from a big buyer?
2022-06-28T14:22:48 < benishor> needing to get rid of
2022-06-28T14:28:18 < karlp> nope, there's like 20 vendors with pincompatible super cheap parts, both eastern and western that have vbus, cc1/2, d+/d-, and sbu1/2.
2022-06-28T14:28:45 < karlp> then there's another layer down that only has vbus and cc1/2, those are the "power only, 6 terminal" connectors
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2022-06-28T15:36:09 < josuah> since I asked here as well: here is the Opus 5 containing the article about the early FFT implementation from 1967:
2022-06-28T15:36:11 < josuah> - https://gopherproxy.net/bitreich.org/1/tgtimes/
2022-06-28T15:36:13 < josuah> - gopher://bitreich.org/1/tgtimes/
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2022-06-28T17:00:17 < bitmask> i suck
2022-06-28T17:02:50 < specing> iSuck is a good product name
2022-06-28T17:06:44 < milkylainen_> probably trademarked
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2022-06-28T17:08:27 < Steffanx> It seems you're alive, bitmask  
2022-06-28T17:08:27 < milkylainen_> i suck sportswear seems to be a thing. :)
2022-06-28T17:08:43 < bitmask> i am for now
2022-06-28T17:08:46 < bitmask> alive
2022-06-28T17:09:06 < bitmask> monoclonal antibodies are quite nice
2022-06-28T17:09:23 < karlp> much better to pay for cures than prevention :)
2022-06-28T17:09:42 < bitmask> ?
2022-06-28T17:09:44 < karlp> one's individual health, very american.  one's public health, much socialism..
2022-06-28T17:10:11 < karlp> how's the sunburn coming along?
2022-06-28T17:10:19 < bitmask> i cant believe im still peeling
2022-06-28T17:10:53 < bitmask> quite annoying
2022-06-28T17:11:11 < PaulFertser> "Automobile holders for MP3 players that are affixed or specially adapted to the automobile" Artan Ibraimi AKA iSuck mobile phone mounts INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 2175 rochester dr aurora ILLINOIS https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:eeret4.2.1
2022-06-28T17:31:36 < milkylainen_> :)
2022-06-28T17:32:25 < milkylainen_> MABs can be a magic thing. But $$$.
2022-06-28T17:53:58 < mawk> but what starts the timer then if control makes it reset jpa- 
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2022-06-28T19:20:57 < jpa-> mawk: releasing the reset?
2022-06-28T19:21:36 < mawk> who? the CPU?
2022-06-28T19:21:50 < mawk> it's just master and slave timers for now here
2022-06-28T19:22:25 < mawk> a slave can have one thing done to it by the master: reset, start counting, gate; but it can't have two as far as I understand 
2022-06-28T19:23:23 < jpa-> i mean, if the subservient timer is set to reset, won't it restart automatically when dominatrix timer releases reset? i haven't checked refman
2022-06-28T19:23:59 < mawk> ah maybe, I'm not sure about that
2022-06-28T19:24:14 < mawk> there's also a reset-and-restart signal
2022-06-28T19:24:19 < mawk> maybe that will work
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2022-06-28T19:54:04 < englishman> hey PaulFertser 
2022-06-28T19:54:07 < englishman> how is it going?
2022-06-28T19:56:27 < PaulFertser> englishman: the majority of russians doesn't seem to notice much; for now.
2022-06-28T19:56:56 < englishman> and you?
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2022-06-28T21:04:44 < PaulFertser> englishman: my mental state is seriously affected but it's not like I'm short on food or anything like that.
2022-06-28T21:15:45 < Steffanx> My wallet is heavily affected 😬
2022-06-28T21:19:32 < PaulFertser> I live a humble life.
2022-06-28T21:22:55 < Steffanx> Yeah, but natural gas is what heats my water. And diesel is what my car runs on. 
2022-06-28T21:23:22 < PaulFertser> TFW you split lane riding your YBR-125 overtaking a Maserati.
2022-06-28T21:24:26 < Steffanx> :)
2022-06-28T21:27:14 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: russia's profits from selling gas and oil this year is higher than it was the previous year...
2022-06-28T21:31:31 < PaulFertser> Too bad Crimea's annexation wasn't enough for Europe to stop buying from russia.
2022-06-28T21:39:19 < ds2> you could run your car on palm oil
2022-06-28T21:39:29 < ds2> and heat with the same :D
2022-06-28T21:49:47 < Steffanx> yeah no
2022-06-28T21:51:10 < qyx> PaulFertser: yeah my mental state is affected too, we are considering buying an older electric car and feed it with our photovoltaics and building a biodigester to provide some methane instead of 100 kg of LPG for heating
2022-06-28T21:51:41 < qyx> so, definitely doable, although a bit of comfort loss
2022-06-28T21:51:57 < specing> eh, fuel is still too cheap
2022-06-28T21:51:58 < qyx> but whatever, the world is changing, we need to move on
2022-06-28T21:52:16 < Steffanx> yeah specing.
2022-06-28T21:52:20 < englishman> it is
2022-06-28T21:52:28 < Steffanx> and an EV is too expensive.
2022-06-28T21:52:39 < qyx> the price is not the issue
2022-06-28T21:52:45 < englishman> only because supply is still limited vs demand
2022-06-28T21:52:50 < qyx> the things behind are
2022-06-28T21:53:28 < qyx> we do around 20000 km a year
2022-06-28T21:53:40 < Steffanx> same here
2022-06-28T21:56:06 < qyx> so, about 2000e yearly, if an older EV is about 10-15 ke, it is not that bad
2022-06-28T21:58:07 < Steffanx> With current diesel prices, yeah.
2022-06-28T21:59:37 < Steffanx> dutchland, especially the region i live in, is not ready for full EV yet.
2022-06-28T22:01:09 < qyx> older EVs have 100-150 km range, so most routes we usually do require one charging
2022-06-28T22:02:33 < Steffanx> what kind of "older EV"  are you talking about? 
2022-06-28T22:04:23 < qyx> vw e-up for example, 2015-7
2022-06-28T22:07:36 < Steffanx> here in dutchland they are easily > 15k
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2022-06-28T22:08:44 < qyx> nissan ev200 is cheap too :p
2022-06-28T22:14:06 < Steffanx> anyway, for me the most annoying part is the charging. No charger near the parking place.
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2022-06-28T22:16:12 < specing> Steffanx: I open news and hear that traffic is clogged
2022-06-28T22:16:14 < specing> meaning fuel is too cheap
2022-06-28T22:16:19 < specing> I'll believe that fuel is not cheap when I stop seeing such reports
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2022-06-28T22:20:28 < Steffanx> OK specing  
2022-06-28T22:21:07 < Steffanx> If you give me free money to go live closer to my work or an EV then im in. 
2022-06-28T22:21:21 < Steffanx> To buy an EV*
2022-06-28T22:22:16 < Steffanx> + proper charging possibilities 
2022-06-28T22:23:31 < PaulFertser> Probably cars are just an inefficient commute method?
2022-06-28T22:24:42 < PaulFertser> You could use trains or small displacement motor bike to get to work.
2022-06-28T22:26:40 < Steffanx> If the trains weren't overly crowded. (At least it used to be..) 
2022-06-28T22:27:50 < Steffanx> And now I get to waste another hour per day doing other things but travelling 
2022-06-28T22:28:44 < Steffanx> Than*
2022-06-28T22:34:29 < specing> Steffanx: let me tell you this in reverse
2022-06-28T22:34:46 < specing> if everyone owned a personal jet then commuting 300km to work would be no problem
2022-06-28T22:35:01 < specing> so people would resist having to switch to cars
2022-06-28T22:35:11 < specing> just the same as you resist switching to bicycles
2022-06-28T22:40:32 < Steffanx> And if we didn't have bicycles we would be walking and we didn't have legs we would be crawling.
2022-06-28T22:44:03 < Steffanx> and i wouldnt resist if it didnt talk 4 hours/day
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--- Day changed ke kesä 29 2022
2022-06-29T00:09:03 < ds2> or do an autotrain, drive to the train station and get loaded as a unit...then do whatever while the train moves
2022-06-29T00:20:17 < specing> ds2: I think that's the future, personal mobility + trains
2022-06-29T00:20:41 < specing> where personal mobility means vehicle that is light enough for you to be able to lift it yourself
2022-06-29T00:21:28 < specing> I'd also tolerate 45km/h e-tuktuks with 100km range, but defintely not cars
2022-06-29T00:31:54 < zyp> 20:59:37 < Steffanx> dutchland, especially the region i live in, is not ready for full EV yet.
2022-06-29T00:31:59 < zyp> that sounds like bullshit
2022-06-29T00:34:03 < zyp> .nl already had decent charger infrastructure when I visited, what was it, four years ago?
2022-06-29T00:39:20 < specing> > charger infrastructure
2022-06-29T00:39:27 < specing> you mean the schuko sockets at home?
2022-06-29T00:39:48 < zyp> no, I mean Fastned
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2022-06-29T00:42:43 < ds2> i just don't see the value on a plugin ev setup.... now a fuel cell ev....
2022-06-29T00:43:37 < specing> forget about fuel cells
2022-06-29T00:43:43 < zyp> operating costs? doesn't FCEV use like three times as much electricity if you produce the hydrogen by electrolysis
2022-06-29T00:44:38 < specing> it's not technically a problem, since we do have to overprovision solar power several times over(and can convert the rest to synthfuels)
2022-06-29T00:45:03 < zyp> BEVs have low operating costs because they're energy efficient, FCEVs throws that out the window
2022-06-29T00:45:15 < specing> what's problematic is the exotic materials used in the cells and the unrecyclability of hydrogen storage tanks
2022-06-29T00:45:19 < specing> plus hydrogen leaking
2022-06-29T00:45:24 < specing> its a bomb on wheels
2022-06-29T00:46:36 < englishman> FCEVs might be feasible for heavy trucks but for cars it is already obsolete
2022-06-29T00:46:56 < specing> heavy trucks should have power line attachments like trams
2022-06-29T00:47:07 < englishman> it's also a bomb on your street corner, at every hydrogen filling station
2022-06-29T00:47:09 < zyp> charging infrastructure in .nl: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/H3Dlm.jpg
2022-06-29T00:47:11 < specing> and a "smallish" last mile battery (<100kWh)
2022-06-29T00:47:20 < specing> englishman: yes
2022-06-29T00:49:16 < specing> but really, all long haul freight should move to trains
2022-06-29T00:50:59 < kaki> stuff used to be on steel wheels
2022-06-29T00:51:11 < kaki> but rubber wheels are cheaper somehow
2022-06-29T00:58:24 < Steffanx> i dont consider it very decent zyp. Charging from home is a pain, there is nothing on walking distance, nothing at most companies. If that changed it would be fine, but now .. no thanks.
2022-06-29T00:58:35 < Steffanx> its much better in the cities and down south
2022-06-29T00:58:52 < zyp> don't you have electricity at home?
2022-06-29T00:58:55 < ds2> what electrolysis?
2022-06-29T00:59:17 < ds2> it uses exactly the same amount of electricity except you don't plug it in
2022-06-29T00:59:53 < Steffanx> Cant park my car in from of my house  (and its not allowed to put a cable over the road/sidewalk)
2022-06-29T01:00:27 < zyp> Steffanx, you're parking on public ground?
2022-06-29T01:00:30 < ds2> electrolysis is more of a energy storage system
2022-06-29T01:00:31 < Steffanx> yes
2022-06-29T01:01:53 < zyp> ds2, so where are you getting your hydrogen from?
2022-06-29T01:02:25 < zyp> the motor uses the same amount of electricity, sure
2022-06-29T01:02:27 < ds2> zyp: anything that containers hydrogen... alchohol
2022-06-29T01:05:57 < kaki> catphish_: box now
2022-06-29T01:06:02 < kaki> now
2022-06-29T01:07:40 < zyp> kaki, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/991097520862138488/IMG_20220627_230705.jpg
2022-06-29T01:08:18 < kaki> rather large garage
2022-06-29T01:09:29 < kaki> it looks like it wants wool to walls for winter
2022-06-29T01:09:46 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/990210854932873216/20220625_130413.jpg
2022-06-29T01:10:20 < kaki> its interior wall?
2022-06-29T01:10:57 < kaki> nice table
2022-06-29T01:11:02 < zyp> yes, exterior walls are sandwich panels
2022-06-29T01:11:26 < kaki> what is the deal with roof
2022-06-29T01:11:38 < kaki> it has panels running in weird direction
2022-06-29T01:11:38 < catphish_> kaki: no box day
2022-06-29T01:11:42 < catphish_> box tomorrow
2022-06-29T01:12:04 < kaki> catphish_: it's fine I inspect zyps garage
2022-06-29T01:12:30 < catphish_> that is a nice garage
2022-06-29T01:13:07 < zyp> what do you mean weird direction?
2022-06-29T01:13:23 < kaki> lateral profile
2022-06-29T01:13:56 < kaki> I have not seen such
2022-06-29T01:14:16 < kaki> I assume it has insulation too?
2022-06-29T01:14:16 < zyp> I think that's also some sort of sandwich panels, inside goes that way for strength
2022-06-29T01:14:24 < kaki> yes
2022-06-29T01:14:52 < qyx> hm I have never seen trapezoidal steel sandwich panels
2022-06-29T01:15:01 < zyp> it better have, I was told I could just screw mounts for the water pipe to it, so I did
2022-06-29T01:15:11 < qyx> lol
2022-06-29T01:15:33 < kaki> zyp: they meant the low part of profile
2022-06-29T01:15:47 < kaki> that is lower
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2022-06-29T13:01:20 < karlp> what's the tent for?
2022-06-29T13:02:05 < karlp> I think kaks is confused if the roof is that rippled on teh outside too, as it wouldn't be very good at letting water run off?
2022-06-29T13:02:17 < karlp> I just presumed it wass't that onthe outside...
2022-06-29T13:02:45 < karlp> (I like how zyp gave up on .nl is great for ev's when they remembered not everyone lives in a single family detched home with their own driveways....)
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2022-06-29T13:30:04 < Steffanx> Haha, karlp. :P
2022-06-29T13:30:12 < mawk> time to emigrate to NL PaulFertser 
2022-06-29T13:30:17 < mawk> Steffanx will house you
2022-06-29T13:30:28 < mawk> I'd house you but my apartment is 35m²
2022-06-29T13:31:07 < Steffanx> karlp:  for a trip through dutchland it's all fine. Not exactly for daily commuting (for me)
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2022-06-29T13:32:45 < Steffanx> Dutchland is not ready for everyone to go EV either. Our infrastructure can't handle that.
2022-06-29T13:33:08 < Steffanx> I will house no one mawk
2022-06-29T13:33:42 < Steffanx> You kick your ex out and you have space for a lost russian.
2022-06-29T13:33:47 < PaulFertser> mawk: it's not all that easy for someone outside of EU to get a visa with work permit. But yes, I'm considering means to leave the goddamn country. Too bad my parents aren't.
2022-06-29T13:33:48 < qyx> where do you buy RPi these days?
2022-06-29T13:34:14 < mawk> PaulFertser: NL distributes work permits like little breads when it comes to IT sector
2022-06-29T13:34:17 < mawk> since it's understaffed
2022-06-29T13:35:12 < mawk> or you can marry a dutch gal
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2022-06-29T13:39:35 < PaulFertser> mawk: does NL allow to marry two persons at the same time?
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2022-06-29T13:41:42 < mawk> I'm not sure
2022-06-29T13:41:52 < mawk> maybe there is a religious exemption
2022-06-29T13:42:03 < mawk> if your spouse can get a visa then you get a spouse visa 
2022-06-29T13:42:15 < mawk> (provided you work)
2022-06-29T13:42:16 < mawk> so then your chances of entry are doubled
2022-06-29T13:42:54 < mawk> after 5 years on a work permit you get permanent residence permit and then you're allowed to be unemployed
2022-06-29T13:43:13 < mawk> and you get a fast track citizenship thing too I think
2022-06-29T13:43:45 < mawk> it would be fun to be able to gift citizenships, I have too many I could give out some
2022-06-29T13:44:39 < PaulFertser> :)
2022-06-29T13:54:03 < mawk> and of all the EU countries NL is probably the best bet if you're not willing to learn another language
2022-06-29T13:54:07 < mawk> since you already speak english
2022-06-29T13:54:30 < mawk> or maybe some weird nordic country like zypland
2022-06-29T13:54:50 < qyx> svalbard
2022-06-29T13:54:54 < drzacek> but they have 100km/h limit on highways
2022-06-29T13:55:36 < karlp> zypland isn't actualyl in the eu...
2022-06-29T13:56:06 < mawk> I don't know here zyp lives
2022-06-29T13:56:09 < mawk> in .no ?
2022-06-29T13:56:26 < karlp> yes.
2022-06-29T13:56:31 < mawk> ah right
2022-06-29T13:56:38 < mawk> the saudi arabia of europe
2022-06-29T13:56:38 < karlp> they're in schengen, but not eu, same as .is
2022-06-29T13:56:48 < mawk> ah I thought is was in the EU
2022-06-29T13:57:16 < karlp> .is, .no and lichtenstein are in the EEA instead...
2022-06-29T13:57:47 < karlp> it's where we accept 99% of eu regulations without having a say in it, but get to pretend we're independent.
2022-06-29T13:58:05 < PaulFertser> Nice way to frame it
2022-06-29T13:58:26 < karlp> anything else is lying :)
2022-06-29T13:59:33 < mawk> if you marry me you get 3 passports for the price of 1 PaulFertser 
2022-06-29T13:59:37 < mawk> it's a good deal
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2022-06-29T15:03:46 < milkylainen_> Xogium: wb.
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2022-06-29T15:34:52 < drzacek> a question
2022-06-29T15:35:53 < drzacek> I might want to make some kind of signal analysis, want to find out noise/vibrations on sensor
2022-06-29T15:36:15 < drzacek> for that I need to sample pretty fast. 
2022-06-29T15:37:07 < drzacek> the sensor is a kind of rotary encoder, so I have it connected to the TIMer pins and have the timer configured in encoder mode (which works fine so far)
2022-06-29T15:37:48 < drzacek> my current idea is that I would use other timer to generate interrupts every 30us, read data, put in the buffer and then do the math on the buffer back in main()
2022-06-29T15:38:07 < drzacek> but so frequent interrupts - kinda feels wrong, no?
2022-06-29T15:38:50 < drzacek> I saw there are some DMA functions in HAL for encoders, not sure how those should work, probably not as I would expect
2022-06-29T15:40:03 < specing> drzacek: if you just want to test the sensor then you don't need DMA complexity
2022-06-29T15:40:04 < drzacek> but, if it would be possible, then having DMA to periodically (at defined frequency) read timer counter, put in buffer, without straining the cpu so I can do other stuff in the meantime - that would be rad
2022-06-29T15:40:26 < drzacek> it's not for testing, it's for the function I need
2022-06-29T15:40:30 < specing> ok
2022-06-29T15:40:38 < specing> idk about HAL as I don't use C
2022-06-29T15:40:49 < drzacek> asm?
2022-06-29T15:41:06 < specing> no, Ada
2022-06-29T15:41:38  * drzacek googles what ada is
2022-06-29T15:46:43 < mawk> drzacek: stm32 timers can do encoders for you
2022-06-29T15:46:49 < mawk> without cpu involvment
2022-06-29T15:46:58 < drzacek> mawk, yes, that's what I do now
2022-06-29T15:47:00 < mawk> and using dma you can read the value
2022-06-29T15:47:25 < mawk> I think the timer cookbook says something about this
2022-06-29T15:47:27 < mawk> but unsure
2022-06-29T15:47:27 < drzacek> I'm trying to understand that DMA part
2022-06-29T15:47:39 < mawk> I never did DMA personally but I guess in this instance it's pretty simple
2022-06-29T15:47:48 < mawk> it's just one single register you want to copy to your user variable, right
2022-06-29T15:47:50 < drzacek> it looks like it is intended to send the counter value to some peripheral, like i2c or something
2022-06-29T15:48:02 < mawk> or to memory, right?
2022-06-29T15:48:16 < drzacek> in my case it would be writing to memory, yes, but not once - constantly
2022-06-29T15:48:23 < mawk> yeah
2022-06-29T15:48:25 < drzacek> at known rate
2022-06-29T15:48:33 < mawk> well 30µs for an interrupt is quite big
2022-06-29T15:48:39 < mawk> you can do a lot of cpu task between this
2022-06-29T15:48:45 < mawk> so even if you don't use DMA it'd be fine
2022-06-29T15:49:05 < drzacek> I also do UART sending in the meantime, that takes around 1ms - wouldn't that interrupt break that transmission?
2022-06-29T15:49:43 < drzacek> yeah I started to write the interrupt, guess I'll see how well it works 
2022-06-29T16:00:36 < karlp> does the timer encoder register have the value you want to collect?
2022-06-29T16:01:08 < karlp> do you just want to have a second timer at your sampling frequency doing periph2mem, reading from the other timers' output register, and into your buffer of samples?
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2022-06-29T16:01:14 < karlp> that soundsd pretty straightforward.
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2022-06-29T16:24:26 < drzacek> karlp, sums pretty much what I want
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2022-06-29T17:09:55 < mawk> interrupts won't break transmission of UART data dreamcat4 
2022-06-29T17:09:57 < mawk> ooo
2022-06-29T17:09:59 < mawk> he's gone
2022-06-29T17:10:03 < mawk> look away dreamcat4 
2022-06-29T17:15:10 < Steffanx> Come on, don't highlight dreamcat4  all the time mawk. 
2022-06-29T17:17:23 < mawk> :(
2022-06-29T17:17:27 < mawk> poor dreamcat4 
2022-06-29T17:24:37 < qyx> who is dreamcat4 
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2022-06-29T17:50:40 < Laurenceb_> god I hate bash
2022-06-29T17:50:46 < Laurenceb_>  "value too great for base"
2022-06-29T17:53:49 < Steffanx> Laurencebash.
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2022-06-29T18:12:09 < mawk> the problem is laurenceblem
2022-06-29T18:15:31 < specing> laurence is too great for this channel
2022-06-29T18:35:41 < Steffanx> I'm still wondering what happened to you specing  
2022-06-29T18:35:54 < Steffanx> When were you "touched"?
2022-06-29T18:36:14 < Steffanx> Is this what a master/PhD does to you?
2022-06-29T18:45:40 < specing> touched?
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2022-06-29T19:40:08 < englishman> fenugrec: i put "ram mount" in a sentence that i ran through google translate.... i ended up writing "support de bélier" in an email
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2022-06-29T20:37:35 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of hyperloop
2022-06-29T20:37:42 < Laurence_b> >check CAN bus
2022-06-29T20:37:57 < Laurence_b> >there is randomly an air con control unit
2022-06-29T20:38:26 < Laurence_b> >an entire air con control unit (v large unit) has somehow ended up inside a welded shut area
2022-06-29T20:38:58 < Laurence_b> >its happily giving me status info and air temperature etc from inside
2022-06-29T20:40:14 < Laurence_b> should be impossible to install without custom Y splitter cables... maybe the install guy is trolling me
2022-06-29T21:06:12 < emeryth> sup pros, are there any simple USB-PD sink chips other than those chinese IP2721 things?
2022-06-29T21:09:37 < zyp> stm32g0
2022-06-29T21:09:53 < zyp> they've got built in PD peripherals
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2022-06-29T22:04:57 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/BasedBeff/status/1541991743519952899#m
2022-06-29T22:12:03 < Laurence_b> argg polish crew cant get their traction controller to work
2022-06-29T22:12:10 < Laurence_b> this means I have to debug... simulink
2022-06-29T22:13:54 < mawk> lol englishman 
2022-06-29T22:13:56 < mawk> of course
2022-06-29T22:20:12 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/tszzl/status/1541328386693337088#m
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2022-06-29T23:01:09 < catphish> box is installed! https://imgur.com/a/gy9t16B https://imgur.com/a/gy9t16B
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2022-06-29T23:17:04 < Steffanx> fancy
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2022-06-29T23:59:43 < Laurence_b> wait wut
2022-06-29T23:59:45 < Laurence_b> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD5MmuLDeFE
2022-06-29T23:59:49 < Laurence_b> not sure if troll
--- Day changed to kesä 30 2022
2022-06-30T00:07:00 < Laurence_b> wtf I think 5G causes covid now
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2022-06-30T13:01:24 < karlp> emeryth: ch231 ch235, xpm5218 (all china...)
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2022-06-30T14:37:48 < karlp> how do you work out case heating for a buck regulator?  just use the efficienty figure and say that all the rest of it is in the device?
2022-06-30T14:38:06 < karlp> can you use the rdson high/low side figures and actual current/voltages instead?
2022-06-30T14:40:36 < karlp> efficiency at 2A for 12V->5V says 90%, so at 10W output, (measured) that means it's drawing 11.111 W input, so 1.111W in the regulator, so at 25°C/W junction-ambient, I should be seeing ~27°C rise?
2022-06-30T14:41:14 < karlp> I'm seeing almost double that, 
2022-06-30T14:41:41 < karlp> is that just manufacturers assuming you have 20cm square PCBs with forced air flow or something?
2022-06-30T14:42:03 < karlp> it says "Device mounted on FR-4 substrate, four-layer PC board, 2oz copper, with minimum recommended pad layout"
2022-06-30T14:43:16 < karlp> I guess I'vwe got 2 layer, 1oz copper, but ~same layout otherwise.
2022-06-30T14:43:22 < karlp> still didn't really expect so much heat
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2022-06-30T14:54:04 < karlp> qyx: ap63357 stable at 74°C at 2Amps, fwiw
2022-06-30T14:58:35 < qyx> I ordered some half a hour ago
2022-06-30T14:59:01 < qyx> decided to order only a few for the current batch
2022-06-30T14:59:31 < qyx> the board is so simple I can redo itif it is not available again
2022-06-30T15:00:14 < karlp> 100mV drop along a 50cm usb3/thunderbolt-lightning whatever cable at 1A.
2022-06-30T15:00:27 < karlp> hrm, I should try the cable measuring mode on this usb tester thing.
2022-06-30T15:01:17 < karlp> 90mOhms then I guess, let's see 
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2022-06-30T15:04:35 < Laurenceb_> anyone here use openvpn?
2022-06-30T15:04:50 < Laurenceb_> I cant get the gui to load at all, nothing happens
2022-06-30T15:05:02 < qyx> gui?
2022-06-30T15:05:15 < Laurenceb_> windowzer 10
2022-06-30T15:05:17 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2022-06-30T15:05:56 < Laurenceb_> cmd line just sits there doing nothing until I ctrl-c it
2022-06-30T15:05:59 < qyx> karlp: did you measure your Iq?
2022-06-30T15:06:15 < Laurenceb_> >IQ
2022-06-30T15:07:21 < karlp> no, not setup for that on this hardware, and not relevant for me right now, I'll just trust the datasheet on that one.
2022-06-30T15:07:35 < karlp> could cut up some cbaling to measure input, but meh.
2022-06-30T15:08:18 < qyx> meh I'll measure in 2 weeks when the boards arrive
2022-06-30T15:08:50 < karlp> still wasns't expecting so much temp rise.
2022-06-30T15:09:06 < karlp> I guess I need more vias for dissipation or more board space.
2022-06-30T15:10:01 < Laurenceb_> sheeet
2022-06-30T15:10:03 < qyx> what's your laout?
2022-06-30T15:10:15 < qyx> do you use the NC pin?
2022-06-30T15:10:16 < Laurenceb_> >windozer antimalware process goes to 100% when I try to load openvpn
2022-06-30T15:10:20 < Laurenceb_> thats not a good sign
2022-06-30T15:11:48 < specing> antimalware detects windows, is overloaded
2022-06-30T15:12:03 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nvXCo.png
2022-06-30T15:12:27 < karlp> yeah, the recommended layout uses NC pin, so yep
2022-06-30T15:13:13 < karlp> nextcloud is being dumb and not uploading the thermal cam images right now, will sort that out
2022-06-30T15:14:07 -!- rajkosto [~rajkosto@178.220.169.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2022-06-30T15:14:40 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/dDD5kLfRGW8GSLw
2022-06-30T15:15:12 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@cust226-dsl93-89-135.idnet.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-06-30T15:16:57 < karlp> oh, fucking had a net higlighted, no wonder it was all dim shit
2022-06-30T15:19:54 < karlp> here's at 1A/5W output: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/c66R743eJwE5aBn
2022-06-30T15:20:13 < karlp> which is more than we'll ever be doing anyway
2022-06-30T15:22:19 < qyx> nah I need about nothing, 5 mA max for RS485 rx/tx and STM32
2022-06-30T15:22:36 < qyx> but it is low Iq and low price, so ..
2022-06-30T15:23:44 < karlp> exactly :)
2022-06-30T15:24:06 < karlp> well, I want mayb 300mA out, but cheap/small/available was all we really eeded
2022-06-30T15:25:14 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oZIwV/Screenshot_2022-06-30_14-24-57.png
2022-06-30T15:25:22 < qyx> I assume I will rage about those vias in pads
2022-06-30T15:45:15 -!- RAMIII [~RAMIII@user/RAMIII] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-30T16:19:01 < Steffanx> I'll remind you of today when that happens
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2022-06-30T20:06:50 < bitmask> in c++ when you have a derived class, do you make the overriden functions virtual?
2022-06-30T20:07:12 < bitmask> i know you dont have to, just wondering what normal procedure is
2022-06-30T20:10:44 < BrainDamage> you  make the overridden function virtual if the data type require polymorphism
2022-06-30T20:11:02 < BrainDamage> aka the data in the overridden version is not the same
2022-06-30T20:11:36 < BrainDamage> or pure virtual if you don't have a reference implementation, and the implementation is all in the child classes
2022-06-30T20:11:40 < bitmask> isn't the virtual only required in the base class?
2022-06-30T20:11:49 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-06-30T20:12:22 < bitmask> thats what im asking, if the derived class won't act as a base class for another derived class, do you use the virtual keyword in the derived class
2022-06-30T20:13:18 < bitmask> i read its implicitly virtual anyway but i know its not necessary, so im just wondering what common convention is
2022-06-30T20:13:34 < BrainDamage> no, you don't have to
2022-06-30T20:13:56 < bitmask> i know you dont have to, just wondering if people generally include it anyway or leave it off
2022-06-30T20:14:35 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-30T20:14:48 < bitmask> i think im going to leave it off and use the override keyword
2022-06-30T20:21:08 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
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2022-06-30T20:35:20 < Steffanx> i wont stop you bitmask
2022-06-30T20:35:57 < bitmask> its very hard to get people's opinions when you actually want them :P
2022-06-30T20:36:50 < bitmask> i did read using virtual and override is redundant so that answered my question, but still
2022-06-30T20:41:15 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-06-30T20:41:19 < BrainDamage> I prefer comments to syntactic sugar
2022-06-30T20:41:28 < BrainDamage> comments won't break with a new version of a compiler
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2022-06-30T21:15:06 < Laurenceb__> >tried to redesign shitcoin to avoid blockchain
2022-06-30T21:15:11 < Laurenceb__> >ended up with dagcoin
2022-06-30T21:15:13 < Laurenceb__> fail
2022-06-30T21:18:33 < Laurenceb__> I still dont get if its a stablecoin or not
2022-06-30T21:20:15 < Laurenceb__> lol ok its a scam based on copypastad byteball codez
2022-06-30T21:55:15 -!- gnom [~alex@178.150.7.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2022-06-30T22:04:18 < qyx> isn't byteball quite old?
2022-06-30T22:04:26 < Steffanx> Implying anything coin is not scam based
2022-06-30T22:04:29 < Steffanx> nowadays
2022-06-30T22:11:35 -!- Laurenceb__ [~Laurenceb@101.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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2022-06-30T22:46:21 < kaki> welcom L dog
2022-06-30T22:46:38 < kaki> L Dawg
2022-06-30T22:48:29 < kaki> how is train?
2022-06-30T22:50:06 < kaki> Laurence_b: train now
2022-06-30T22:52:02 < Laurence_b> I'm bored by the train tbh
2022-06-30T22:52:19 < Laurence_b> hyperboss doesnt believe that phantom air con unit exists
2022-06-30T22:52:20 < kaki> okay.. how so?
2022-06-30T22:52:35 < kaki> phantom air con?
2022-06-30T22:52:37 < Laurence_b> its just tedious to work on it every day tbh
2022-06-30T22:53:00 < Laurence_b> yeah there is an air con unit welded inside a sealed area, I can see in on the CAN bus
2022-06-30T22:53:40 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-06-30T22:53:48 < kaki> maybe you need to run it to proof it to your hyperboss
2022-06-30T22:53:57 < kaki> "there it goes"
2022-06-30T22:54:53 < kaki> how is the inverter?
2022-06-30T22:55:06 < kaki> and the arc jump over thing test thing
2022-06-30T22:58:21 < Steffanx> The inverter is still in the math lab.
2022-06-30T23:00:13 < kaki> still in bicycle
2022-06-30T23:00:31 < kaki> wondering how to make the bike go faster than 2kmh
2022-06-30T23:04:19 < kaki> but I think lurencer replaced that non-sense spi routine from labview or whatever
2022-06-30T23:05:53 < kaki> got spi to run 1000x faster
2022-06-30T23:06:03 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has joined ##stm32
2022-06-30T23:12:41 < Laurence_b> nah its still failing
2022-06-30T23:13:00 < Laurence_b> atm our inverter wont work due to capacitive coupling or something into the current sensors
2022-06-30T23:13:23 < Laurence_b> switching of the IGBTs causes spikes on the current sensor that cant be filtered out
2022-06-30T23:13:55 < kaki> hmm
2022-06-30T23:14:20 < qyx> use less current
2022-06-30T23:14:40 < Laurence_b> qyx: its a function of voltage
2022-06-30T23:14:45 < kaki> redesign with current sensor at same potential as current
2022-06-30T23:14:53 < qyx> use less voltage then
2022-06-30T23:15:06 < kaki> optically isolate signal
2022-06-30T23:15:07 < Laurence_b> multiple kV slewing in microseconds causes huge spikes in the current sensor outputs
2022-06-30T23:15:22 < kaki> but how to get power there..
2022-06-30T23:15:23 < Laurence_b> kaki: current sensors are none contact already
2022-06-30T23:15:37 < kaki> it doesn't matter
2022-06-30T23:16:19 < kaki> capacitive coupling gets you when you are non-contact
2022-06-30T23:17:07 < kaki> then just go to same potential than current is
2022-06-30T23:17:35 < kaki> optically isolate signal something rather long
2022-06-30T23:17:41 < kaki> *with
2022-06-30T23:18:18 < kaki> just figure out how to get isolated power supply to switching 4kv signal
2022-06-30T23:18:58 < kaki> maybe use the current itself
2022-06-30T23:20:30 < kaki> have system to store energy and run modulation to optical line as "online signal"
2022-06-30T23:20:59 < kaki> modulation or.. another wavelength
2022-06-30T23:22:02 < kaki> for current signal you need some sort of modulation though
2022-06-30T23:24:07 < Laurence_b> the current sensing is meant to avoid the switching times
2022-06-30T23:24:24 < Laurence_b> but that doesnt work when the sensor bandwidth is finite and the spikes are huge
2022-06-30T23:25:00 < kaki> do you have current spike?
2022-06-30T23:25:34 < kaki> actually how could you know
2022-06-30T23:26:54 < Laurence_b> yeah its hard to know wtf is going on
2022-06-30T23:27:00 < kaki> experiment
2022-06-30T23:27:08 < Laurence_b> I'm going to try wrapping the cables in copper foil
2022-06-30T23:27:18 < kaki> optically isolate with a fibre
2022-06-30T23:27:22 < Laurence_b> it will need a slit down the side to stop eddy currents
2022-06-30T23:27:30 < kaki> run sensor + mcu from battery
2022-06-30T23:27:41 < Laurence_b> optically isolating the current sensors is a pain
2022-06-30T23:27:41 < kaki> tie sensor to current
2022-06-30T23:27:54 < Laurence_b> hmm yeah actually
2022-06-30T23:28:05 < kaki> with 4kv switching you must endure some pain
2022-06-30T23:28:13 < Laurence_b> ties sensors to the HV, then optoisolate the output might actually work
2022-06-30T23:28:19 < kaki> I don't think there is easy way
2022-06-30T23:28:25 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-06-30T23:28:43 < Laurence_b> atm first issue is the IGBT gate drivers cook their decoupling caps
2022-06-30T23:28:55 < Laurence_b> we are putting 30A spikes through cheap electrolytics
2022-06-30T23:29:18 < Laurence_b> to drive 1kA, 5kV SiC IGBTs
2022-06-30T23:29:45 < kaki> you need massive ceramics?
2022-06-30T23:29:45 < Laurence_b> I smoked all the caps this afternoon
2022-06-30T23:29:57 < Laurence_b> maybe, I'll try hybrid polymer caps tomorrow
2022-06-30T23:30:34 < kaki> what does the paper say
2022-06-30T23:31:04 < qyx> Laurence_b playing with 5 MW, fortunately he lives on an island and far away
2022-06-30T23:31:40 < kaki> we can safelly check updates remotelly with internets qyx
2022-06-30T23:32:43 < kaki> actually it would be interesting to visit lurencer and catphish
2022-06-30T23:35:37 < kaki> Laurence_b: you could use standard optical fibres with preinstalled connectors(industrial type) and tranceivers and take signal optically right to the brain
2022-06-30T23:36:56 < Laurence_b> maybe... a lot of work
2022-06-30T23:37:07 < Laurence_b> atm I'm using standard Wolfspeed modules
2022-06-30T23:37:07 < kaki> make distance between that 4kv noise hell and calm controller board
2022-06-30T23:37:40 < kaki> those have sensor built in?
2022-06-30T23:37:43 < Laurence_b> the brain is made by the polish crew using ti micros and simulink
2022-06-30T23:37:58 < Laurence_b> no, but their board has interfaces for the modules
2022-06-30T23:38:13 < kaki> ah
2022-06-30T23:38:55 < Laurence_b> qyx: yesterday I blew the 11kV fuse inside the substation lol
2022-06-30T23:39:04 < Laurence_b> nice flying arcs
2022-06-30T23:39:05 < kaki> could you move sensor to another side of IGBT?
2022-06-30T23:39:34 < kaki> you would need to split the rails physically to have 3 branches
2022-06-30T23:40:01 < kaki> and still enough transfer of heat
2022-06-30T23:40:44 < kaki> idk if the module has isolated bottom or is that the rail or something but I assume now
2022-06-30T23:42:36 < kaki> Laurence_b: could you move sensor to rail side of IGBT?
2022-06-30T23:43:09 < kaki> anyway.. nice brainstorming
2022-06-30T23:43:42 < kaki> Laurence_b: how many amps fuse?
2022-06-30T23:47:05 < Laurence_b> 500
2022-06-30T23:47:46 < kaki> that's something
2022-06-30T23:57:39 < kaki> it would be called an event when it goes
--- Log closed pe heinä 01 00:00:34 2022