--- Log opened ti marras 01 00:00:45 2022
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2022-11-01T00:51:37 < Laurence_b> sheeet
2022-11-01T00:51:46 < Laurence_b> hyperboss is too good at his jerb
2022-11-01T00:52:00 < Laurence_b> tfw "nobody will spot these minor software issues"
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2022-11-01T01:46:06 < Laurence_b> >it can take >45s for pneumatic failure to be flagged
2022-11-01T01:46:09 < Laurence_b> the horror
2022-11-01T01:47:03 < Laurence_b> he needs to get a jerb at WV or Toyota
2022-11-01T01:49:44 < rustyaxe> Toyota in WV?
2022-11-01T01:49:52 < rustyaxe> They dont do softwaare tho.. just engines
2022-11-01T01:51:33 < Laurence_b> they are notorious for dodgy software
2022-11-01T01:52:10 < rustyaxe> hmm only 2 of my vehicles have software
2022-11-01T01:52:30 < rustyaxe> one's open source, the other is some mercedes/fiat abomination
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2022-11-01T13:23:53 < jadew> seeing bugs in the UI of car software is really worrying
2022-11-01T13:24:17 < jadew> good thing there's still a mechanical component to controlling cars
2022-11-01T13:26:38 < mawk> jadew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
2022-11-01T13:26:44 < mawk> this is what software-only control looks like
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2022-11-01T14:09:42 < catphish_> could any algorithm gurus tell me if there's an obvious choice of algorithm to detect the 3 clusters in this image? https://i.imgur.com/zwNMeuY.png
2022-11-01T14:11:26 < catphish_> or this difficult one with 4 clusters: https://i.imgur.com/DwE9y8q.png
2022-11-01T14:14:42 < mawk> https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/10/31/smlight-slzb-06-zigbee-3-0-to-ethernet-poe-usb-wifi-adapter/
2022-11-01T14:14:56 < mawk> do you know the number of clusters in advance catphish_ ?
2022-11-01T14:15:12 < mawk> I had good results with DBSCAN or OPTICS for unknown number of clusters
2022-11-01T14:15:16 < mawk> but you have parameters to tweak of course
2022-11-01T14:15:19 < catphish_> actually, more specifically i want to find the centre of each one, so i suppose i want to try to position circles such that the circles have the highest possible value underenath them
2022-11-01T14:15:41 < mawk> for the second image, depending on the parameters that could be 1, 2, 3 or 4 clusters
2022-11-01T14:15:45 < mawk> there's always something to tweak
2022-11-01T14:15:48 < catphish_> mawk: no, i don't know the number of clusters, i know i'm expecting them to be small circles, and i want to find the centre of each one
2022-11-01T14:16:25 < mawk> are they always looking like this?
2022-11-01T14:16:31 < mawk> bright center, going darker on the edges?
2022-11-01T14:16:55 < mawk> you could try to find all the unconnected portions of brightest pixels and start from them to find the rest of their respective clusters
2022-11-01T14:17:20 < catphish_> background: this is the output from a touchscreen, the points are a low resolution heatmap of fingers touching the screen, i want to identify the centre point of each finger
2022-11-01T14:18:21 < catphish_> so yes, i always expect circles with a brighter spot in the centre, but for a fatter finger it might not decay as neatly
2022-11-01T14:18:25 < mawk> but I'd give OPTICS a try first for instance
2022-11-01T14:18:30 < mawk> it might just work out of the box
2022-11-01T14:18:40 < catphish_> here's for example 2 larger fingers: https://i.imgur.com/ZBZWGXl.png
2022-11-01T14:19:01 < mawk> maybe encoding as 3D data, with x y and color
2022-11-01T14:19:10 < catphish_> but the general idea is that i want to place circles over each cluster and find the centre of each circle
2022-11-01T14:21:37 < catphish_> the output resolution needs to be much higher than the input resolution, so i guess the steps are to identify a cluster, then identify its centre of mass
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2022-11-01T14:25:15 < nerozero> Hi there, is there anyone can give me a hint how to configure i2s/dma for STM32F4 to properly align data in received buffer ?
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2022-11-01T14:29:55 < nerozero> Here is the i2s/dma configuration and part of the buffer content 
2022-11-01T14:29:59 < nerozero> https://bsd.to/WtYT
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2022-11-01T15:21:25 < jpa-> catphish__: i have used this algorithm:   for each new point of data, check its distance from nearest cluster center; if less than threshold, add as a new cluster, otherwise sum to weight of the old cluster and add to the sum of position * weight; then once all input points are processed, combine any clusters that are closer than some threshold to each other, and discard any that have too low weight
2022-11-01T15:22:58 < jpa-> alternatively you could just select the maximum points as initial cluster centers, and refine from there
2022-11-01T15:24:04 < jpa-> e.g. fit a gaussian blob around each center and gradient descent towards optimum; it would handle the summing of effects by two clusters close to each other
2022-11-01T15:46:42 < catphish__> i think i'll start by identifying the brightest points (ie those that have no neibouring pixel that's brighter) and then try to fit around those points
2022-11-01T15:47:47 < catphish__> i suspect it's very expensive to begin without an approximate center for each
2022-11-01T16:06:29 < catphish__> easy enough to pick out the bright points, now i just need to build weights around them
2022-11-01T16:06:59 < catphish__> https://imgur.com/a/xjl4SJF
2022-11-01T16:09:09 < catphish__> there's also fun when someone puts their whole palm on it like an idiot :) https://i.imgur.com/pYgzXiw.png
2022-11-01T16:10:45 < mawk> try optics catphish__ 
2022-11-01T16:10:47 < mawk> it takes 10 mn
2022-11-01T16:10:51 < mawk> then if it doesn't work you can write your own
2022-11-01T16:10:59 < mawk> or take another hour to finetune the parameters
2022-11-01T16:13:49 < catphish__> it doesn't seem like it'll be that easy
2022-11-01T16:14:52 < BrainDamage> what you're trying to do is called clustering
2022-11-01T16:15:14 < BrainDamage> your assumption of brightest spot is quite similar to gaussian clustering
2022-11-01T16:19:20 < catphish__> the unusual thing about my requirement (perhaps it's not unusual) is that rather than equally weighted points randomly distributed, i have unequally weighted points, with fixed distribution
2022-11-01T16:28:53 < mawk> that's why I proposed to use a third dimension for the color 
2022-11-01T16:28:59 < mawk> but you can weight points other ways
2022-11-01T16:33:54 < catphish__> well sure, the data i have right now is x, y, weight
2022-11-01T16:34:21 < mawk> you can also give the weights to your algorithm
2022-11-01T16:34:31 < mawk> DBSCAN/OPTICS/k-means/whatever
2022-11-01T16:34:39 < mawk> and just have 2D data
2022-11-01T16:34:48 < mawk> it's probably kind the same in the end
2022-11-01T16:35:01 < mawk> because having disparate units for dimensions is not always very good, you have a conversion parameter to come up with
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2022-11-01T16:51:01 < catphish__> i think this will work: https://i.imgur.com/V0mWO92.png by finding the brightest spots then looking only at the 9-pixel square surrounding it, i should be able to get what i need
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2022-11-01T18:10:33 < kaki> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qs0uxblHAl9F72NyWS4oAE562xz0H4oY/view?usp=sharing throw your guess what that buck controller is. It's 3x4mm DFN and 12pins + ep
2022-11-01T18:10:41 < kaki> fets are N-channel
2022-11-01T18:12:01 < kaki> 2009 era
2022-11-01T18:14:44 < catphish__> interesting routing
2022-11-01T18:15:29 < kaki> routing is crazy
2022-11-01T18:15:46 < catphish__> and by interesting, i mean, just because your PCB mouse has a minimum trace spacing doesn't make that a target
2022-11-01T18:15:51 < catphish__> *house
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2022-11-01T19:55:52 < Mangy_Dog>  Anyone here done any development work with ARCgis or MapBox? Im trying to concept up some ideas about implimenting a navigation program inside Unreal Engine for a dashboard project. But need to rub a few braincells first. 
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2022-11-01T22:42:53 < karlp> lol, just threw in a lua api metatable impl and got it right first go. 
2022-11-01T23:08:37 < karlp> finally got a reply from the utility too, "activating the p1 port is planned for early next year"
2022-11-01T23:08:45 < karlp> but he words it like he kinda expects that to slip.
2022-11-01T23:19:37 < Mangy_Dog> whats best for MCU to MCU coms?
2022-11-01T23:19:40 < Mangy_Dog> uart?
2022-11-01T23:19:43 < Mangy_Dog> or spi or other?
2022-11-01T23:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> i was thinking while spi is less error prone thanks to a dedicated clock... the whole master slave thing is a bit confusing... how does a slave send data if the master is the clock?
2022-11-01T23:22:28 < Mangy_Dog> (ive not done 2 way spi before)
2022-11-01T23:27:26 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: the slave sends anything it wants at incoming clock cycles. Sometimes additional line is used to tell master it needs to poll.
2022-11-01T23:27:49 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2022-11-01T23:35:32 < Steffanx-> You must have used SPI peripherals that let you know it had something for you by pulling down some irq line, Mangy_Dog 
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2022-11-01T23:37:47 < qyx> multidrop spi!
2022-11-01T23:47:27 < Mangy_Dog> ive used plenty of spi hardware, but nothing where i controlled both ends
2022-11-01T23:48:05 < kaki> https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/space-harsh-environment/rad-hard-hermetic/rad-hard-power/rad-hard-switching-regulators sup
2022-11-01T23:51:16 < Steffanx-> Welcome kaki.
2022-11-01T23:51:32 < kaki> shiny hermetically sealed packages
2022-11-01T23:53:48 < qyx> wheee stm32g4a1!
2022-11-01T23:54:04 < qyx> hrtimer + 2x fdcan
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--- Day changed ke marras 02 2022
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2022-11-02T00:03:31 < machinehum> AOSP is such a fucking mess
2022-11-02T00:04:32 < pragmalin> Mangy_Dog: If both MCUs are clocked by a crystal oscillator, you'll meet UART baudrate tolerance requirements and can use full duplex UART communication. That beats having to constantly poll the other MCU for a response as with SPI and I2C.
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2022-11-02T01:42:48 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of shitulink
2022-11-02T01:43:03 < Laurence_b> >runs hidden rtos to enable multitasking
2022-11-02T01:43:10 < Laurence_b> >ethernet driver isnt thread safe
2022-11-02T01:43:44 < Laurence_b> kek this article https://hackaday.com/2022/11/01/the-many-ways-you-can-easily-ruin-your-pcb-antenna-design/
2022-11-02T01:43:48 < Laurence_b> >can easily
2022-11-02T01:43:53 < Laurence_b> only if ur full retard
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2022-11-02T01:57:30 < Laurence_b> lolllll
2022-11-02T01:57:55 < Laurence_b> I scared "her" off
2022-11-02T02:03:50 < Laurence_b> tfw https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4DCD/production/_127471991_andyleak2.jpg.webp
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2022-11-02T18:43:07 < bitmask> alright... im gonna see if I can get this cloud chamber to work. havent touched it in like a year
2022-11-02T18:43:11 < machinehum> onsemi's FL5160 doesn't work
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2022-11-02T18:43:51 < machinehum> Well it works in "leading edge" but not "trailing edge"
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2022-11-02T19:00:13 < BrainDamage> bitmask: if it fails you can always drink the alcohol
2022-11-02T19:00:33 < machinehum> BrainDamage: This is the plan, yes
2022-11-02T19:00:34 < bitmask> yea i dont think so
2022-11-02T19:00:50 < bitmask> i'll be using iso
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2022-11-02T19:20:24 < Steffanx-> You can drink that too, bitmask. 
2022-11-02T19:22:54 < mawk> I'm not sure about that
2022-11-02T19:23:00 < Steffanx-> Wouldn't recommend though 
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2022-11-02T19:31:43 < bitmask> i'll let you know how it goes
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2022-11-02T19:55:40 < Steffanx-> Great 
2022-11-02T20:01:14 < machinehum> Can you normally measure a body diode of a FET with a dmm
2022-11-02T20:01:18 < machinehum> in diode check mode
2022-11-02T20:09:26 < BrainDamage> "yes", but YMMV, it'll be around 1.5V or so
2022-11-02T20:09:52 < BrainDamage> some dmm will be able to read that, some not, see the dmm specs
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2022-11-02T20:56:12 < qyx> but short gate to source first
2022-11-02T20:56:21 < qyx> been there done that
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2022-11-03T17:00:29 < Laurence_b> A fascinating fact is that Elon has 300 billion dollars and there are 8 billion people on earth. He could give everyone 1 billion each and still have 275 billion left!
2022-11-03T17:01:13 < Laurence_b> hyperboss is in the brogrammers lair
2022-11-03T17:01:31 < Laurence_b> he just told us to try to be normal
2022-11-03T17:02:51 < Laurence_b> but that was specifically addressed to the guy in the shark fursuit, so I'm ok for now
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2022-11-03T17:44:18 < karlp> feck, freecad crashed, and now _allll_ of the dimensions in a sketch that were parameters have been converted to just raw numbers.
2022-11-03T17:44:20 < karlp> fucking yay.
2022-11-03T17:49:17 < jpa-> lol
2022-11-03T17:51:53 < srk> lol indeed. recently I've added a row in spreadsheet and half the aliases broke
2022-11-03T17:52:42 < jpa-> i wonder how they manage to do that, considering they have clear names and everything
2022-11-03T17:53:06 < jpa-> i can understand why it is reasonable and totally expected that everything blows up when a 3D object has 1 more or less faces than before
2022-11-03T17:53:36 < srk> same. what sucks is you start hitting ctrl-z to revert but you have no idea what changes :D so you can loose some other changes
2022-11-03T17:53:46 < srk> so git it is, ideally often :D
2022-11-03T17:57:34 < srk> uff, you can customize keyboard bindings \o/ in 0.20 vertical and horizontal distance changed from Shift-V / H to I and L 
2022-11-03T17:57:55 < karlp> Document.cpp(2824): Failed to restore case_20221028_3#Sketch001.ExpressionEngine: Invalid property specification
2022-11-03T17:58:05 < karlp> and apparently it then shat the bed and lost it all...
2022-11-03T17:58:09 < karlp> no clue though.
2022-11-03T17:58:56 < karlp> pretty sure I was using i/l for vert/horiz in 0.19 as well?
2022-11-03T18:00:05 < karlp> hrm.  so. making some changes to a model that we got manufactured in the past, and with the new model exports and everything, using the dimensions for what we know worked last time, the model and the hole for things that _didnt_ cahnge reallllly don't line up :|
2022-11-03T18:02:10 < srk> 0.20 it seems. maybe you had it customized? https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/commit/0926a4148bcff11249fd4f56bc30256102ffe105
2022-11-03T18:02:24 < karlp> oh ffs, it even screwed up a different sketch that I was n't working on...
2022-11-03T18:02:31 < karlp> I think I need to use my backups :)
2022-11-03T18:02:47 < karlp> hrm, I was using 0.19 nightlies I guess, so those were probably "0.20" really.
2022-11-03T18:04:29 < karlp> oh ffs, even the save from before I _started_ this sketch is failing to restore. wth.
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2022-11-03T18:15:24 < karlp> oki, somethings just busted somewhere.  I redid them all and saved as a new file,
2022-11-03T18:15:33 < karlp> exit, restart reload, all gone again still.
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2022-11-03T19:38:08 < karlp> ok, so apparently, if you use parameter expressions in your sketch constraints (like, value from spreadsheet or formula)  you must be very careful with the "lol, optional" constraint name. https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Expressions#Names
2022-11-03T19:38:23 < karlp> if you _don't_ use an expression, the "constraint name" is _actually_ optional free text...
2022-11-03T19:38:44 < karlp> so yeah, I'm rebuilding my doc from scratch. hooooooray
2022-11-03T19:42:02 < mawk> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/espiff-esp32-rp2040
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2022-11-03T21:23:45 < Laurence_b> hypering the loop
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2022-11-03T22:01:04 < karlp> pretty much don't trust that hardware already frrom where they put the antenna on that module.
2022-11-03T22:02:34 < qyx> groundplane underneath?
2022-11-03T22:03:00 < karlp> and facing the 40pin header internal.
2022-11-03T22:03:30 < qyx> I am pretty sure t is described in their hw design guidelines
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2022-11-03T22:04:12 < karlp> in the esp guidelines? yeah, and those germans didn't follow it.
2022-11-03T22:04:26 < qyx> 3.1.2 Positioning an ESP32 Module on a Base Board
2022-11-03T22:05:32 < karlp> yes...
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2022-11-03T23:28:24 < Laurence_b> we kiwifarms being blocked at ip level
2022-11-03T23:28:28 < Laurence_b> *wew
2022-11-03T23:28:51 < Laurence_b> looks like GTT added ip based blackhole
2022-11-03T23:31:57 < Laurence_b> works with vpn outside uk or usa
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2022-11-03T23:56:40 < mawk> no onion Laurence_b ?
2022-11-03T23:59:45 < Steffanx-> Fuck the farms anyway.
--- Day changed pe marras 04 2022
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2022-11-04T00:04:08 < rustyaxe> wtf is a kiwi farm?
2022-11-04T00:06:09 < Laurence_b> idiot troll forum
2022-11-04T00:06:19 < Laurence_b> but ip level block is crazy
2022-11-04T00:06:59 < Steffanx-> Heh there is a dutch company called "kiwi farm". Poor choice of name now.
2022-11-04T00:07:43 < Steffanx-> You know its serious when Laurence_b calls it an "idiot troll forum"
2022-11-04T00:09:10 < Steffanx-> Laurence (whatever-chan) b.
2022-11-04T00:26:20 -!- kaki [~kaki@176-93-63-132.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-04T00:44:21 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmgFG7PUHfo
2022-11-04T00:44:35 < kaki> new veritasium
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2022-11-04T00:54:55 < kaki> nukes resulted into FFT
2022-11-04T01:00:13 < BrainDamage> FFT was considered a weapon for few decades
2022-11-04T01:05:09 < kaki> imagine secure http connection was concidered similary until recently? or still?
2022-11-04T01:06:11 -!- pragmalin [~pragmalin@user/pragmalin] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-11-04T01:07:24 < kaki> this is US of course
2022-11-04T01:10:52 < kaki> or basically any cryptography
2022-11-04T01:12:15 < kaki> I think they fought secure connections in courts or something in 90s 00s
2022-11-04T01:14:17 < BrainDamage> cryptography was also considered munitions, what helped breaking down and showing how impossible to regulate it was pgp
2022-11-04T01:14:42 < BrainDamage> the author literally printed the source code and sent it abroad, to show how silly the limitations were
2022-11-04T01:15:02 < BrainDamage> books were not export restricted, unlike software
2022-11-04T01:15:47 < BrainDamage> also, several cryptographic attacks remained secret for a while, such as differential cryptanalysis
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2022-11-04T01:27:34 < Laurence_b> I think retard dog Josh is irl a bit tarded
2022-11-04T01:28:01 < Laurence_b> his "I own my ip addresses" is asking for trouble
2022-11-04T01:28:27 < Laurence_b> just get volunteers to set up entry nodes to his back end cdn at random ip addresses
2022-11-04T01:29:00 < Laurence_b> atm its possible to block his ips and only his infrastructure will be knocked out
2022-11-04T01:31:10 < Laurence_b> wait wtf
2022-11-04T01:31:32 < Laurence_b> oh shit I just got trolled by kiwifarms, shit I'm the sucker now
2022-11-04T01:32:00 < Laurence_b> >hannibal lecter style mental hospital photo titled "Jordan Peterson is back in hospital"
2022-11-04T01:32:18 < Laurence_b> keeekkk https://twitter.com/FalconryFinance/status/1584927997450067969
2022-11-04T01:32:53 < Laurence_b> 11.1km/s sides at the replies
2022-11-04T01:40:13 < Laurence_b> "internet daddy simulator"
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2022-11-04T13:34:17 < benishor_> does stm32 have something specific to detect power loss?
2022-11-04T13:34:35 < benishor_> I'd like to reduce writing to an external flash until really needed (power loss)
2022-11-04T13:36:10 < mawk> there's brownout detection 
2022-11-04T13:36:18 < BrainDamage> browout detection interrupt
2022-11-04T13:37:03 < mawk> you maybe want an adequately sized cap to have enough juice to write to flash when it happens
2022-11-04T13:37:07 < mawk> but I'm not sure exactly how much you need
2022-11-04T13:41:17 < BrainDamage> if your flash has wearout leveling, in practice that's kinda useless tho
2022-11-04T13:41:55 < BrainDamage> unless you do it as some form of power saving measure, rather than write-count saving measure
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2022-11-04T14:02:52 < GenTooMan> it may be a better route to first find out the levels at which memory is considered questionable in the STM32 and what voltage and how fast the brown out detection system works. Most systems use a BOR, which likely means you have to have your code start before the rest of the system code to check for a BOR.
2022-11-04T14:04:07 < GenTooMan> it can get very "WTH" a BOI seems weird as a brown out state means something is questionable in the system due to the system power being so low.
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2022-11-04T14:14:10 < karlp> I'd use AWD interrupts I think, to take action before brownout?
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2022-11-04T14:26:01 < jpa-> i think either of those will be too late to start writing flash
2022-11-04T14:27:12 < jpa-> for reliable write-on-power-loss, i'd have a diode to a capacitor charged to a higher voltage, buck converter or linear regulator to microcontroller & flash operating voltage, and comparator to give interrupt when the voltage before the diode falls below a limit
2022-11-04T14:28:56 < jpa-> FRAM is a good choice also
2022-11-04T14:32:09 < Laurence_b> lollllll https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-63511430
2022-11-04T14:32:15 < Laurence_b> truly epic lulz
2022-11-04T14:35:44 < qyx> if an external flash is used, there are those external SPI SRAMs automatically mirrored to a flash on power loss
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2022-11-04T14:46:01 < karlp> hrm, I used awd with a divider to "before" and the maths worked out, but i ran out of time just yoloed a "save every 5 mintues is fine"
2022-11-04T14:46:49 < jpa-> karlp: AWD for the VDD supply or for some other supply?
2022-11-04T14:47:29 < jpa-> i guess it works for VDD if you have enough capacitors and your MCU & flash can work down to e.g. 2V supply
2022-11-04T14:48:06 < karlp> yeah, maths was to kick in at around ~3.1v, instantly trigger "shut off everything except saving to flash" and it needed like 200uF of caps or something.
2022-11-04T14:48:21  * karlp goes looking for the spreadsheet
2022-11-04T14:54:28 < jpa-> helps also a lot if the page is already erased; with e.g. W25Q128JV, 2.7V min operating voltage, so if triggered at 3.1V, it needs 190 µF for page program (3ms) but 25000 µF for sector erase (max. 400ms)
2022-11-04T14:56:37 < karlp> right, It = CV, so 
2022-11-04T14:56:44 < karlp> oh, you were talking _external_ flash
2022-11-04T14:56:46 < karlp> that will need way more.
2022-11-04T14:56:57 < karlp> I was doing spreadsheets for internal flash, andit's quite reasonable.
2022-11-04T14:58:15 < jpa-> true, STM32 internal flash is pretty good when it comes to low power / low voltage programming
2022-11-04T15:01:35 < karlp> but yeah, with 1V drop, ~10ms to save, and ~5mA consumption, 50uF is ~literal, so totalyl doable with 100uF. detect at 3.1 or so, run down to 2V...
2022-11-04T15:02:04 < karlp> and that's saving to very slow L class flash, if you have pre-erased pages on f series, you can get that wayy faster.
2022-11-04T15:02:28 < karlp> harderr questions are "can you turn off enough of everything else in time to get your current lower?" but it's just a tradeoff of more caps on board.
2022-11-04T15:02:57 < karlp> yar, like jpa saidon pre-erased for external too :)
2022-11-04T15:05:03 < karlp> I wonder why I didn't use the PVD thresholds?
2022-11-04T15:05:07  * karlp shrugs.
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2022-11-04T18:29:09 < Laurence_b> lol hyperboss has introduced new rules
2022-11-04T18:29:16 < Laurence_b> >no fursuits at work
2022-11-04T18:31:46 < specing> lolwhat
2022-11-04T18:33:30 < jpa-> i'm not surprised that is a problem at Laurence_b's workplace
2022-11-04T18:35:56 < englishman> not even twitter has implemented such authoritarian rules
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2022-11-04T18:37:32 < Laurence_b> there is a brogrammer who identifies as a cat
2022-11-04T18:44:29 < specing> Laurence_b: hyperboss is Musk or someone else?
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2022-11-04T18:54:12 < Laurence_b> https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8974337,-1.4608375,3a,75y,287.61h,73.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3khcF7NBpW3xod-L5k7Trw!2e0!5s20201001T000000!7i13312!8i6656
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2022-11-04T20:29:14 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFgvP7_YXgAESe4_.png%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-11-04T21:31:02 < Laurence_b> enjoy ur sportzball https://yro.slashdot.org/story/22/11/04/1631217/soccer-fans-youre-being-watched
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--- Day changed la marras 05 2022
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2022-11-05T00:03:58 < kaki> hello night shift
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2022-11-05T00:25:36 < Steffanx-> Gooday sir kaki 
2022-11-05T00:25:43 < Steffanx-> How was the sauna today?
2022-11-05T00:26:15 < kaki> fast
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2022-11-05T00:31:30 < qyx> too cold?
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2022-11-05T00:38:50 < kaki> no
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2022-11-05T01:43:15 < Laurence_b> ffs
2022-11-05T01:43:26 < Laurence_b> hyperboss wants me to make a 1MW motor for TGV
2022-11-05T01:44:51 < Laurence_b> this guy is such an ass "you had better design a new brake control board, cuz I said it would be ready by next tuesday"
2022-11-05T01:44:58 < Laurence_b> inb4 train crash
2022-11-05T01:52:55 < Laurence_b> this guy is from BMW, surprised their cars work at all
2022-11-05T02:05:07 < specing> probably got fired once they stopped
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2022-11-05T02:10:01 < Laurence_b> >I'm gunna redesign the brakes by next Tuesday
2022-11-05T02:11:03  * Laurence_b is looking at Tesla motor teardowns
2022-11-05T02:11:24 < Laurence_b> looks like maybe they have silicone rubber layer between wire encapsulation and the stator steel
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2022-11-05T02:12:24 < Laurence_b> multiphysics model says my current megamotor will crack the encapsulation between stator and wires due to thermally induced stress
2022-11-05T02:13:00 < Laurence_b> looks like Tesla solved this with <0.5mm thick layer of silicone
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2022-11-05T16:02:05 < mawk> how many electrodes do you need in ECG to measure accurately QT interval?
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2022-11-05T18:57:08 < qyx> more than one I guess
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2022-11-05T21:31:35 < catphish> mawk: my wife says 10
2022-11-05T21:32:06 < mawk> ooooo thanks
2022-11-05T21:32:18 < catphish> she also says this setup is confusingly called a 12 lead ECG
2022-11-05T21:32:23 < mawk> she's a doctor?
2022-11-05T21:32:30 < mawk> right
2022-11-05T21:33:08 < catphish> she is not, she's an unqualified health care worker, she does grunt work like taking blood and setting up ECGs
2022-11-05T21:33:44 < catphish> at least she was, until august, now she's quit to go to university to train as a physiotherapist
2022-11-05T21:34:05 < catphish> so she might be wrong :)
2022-11-05T21:51:50 < mawk> oo
2022-11-05T21:51:52 < mawk> thanks
2022-11-05T21:52:29 < zyp> my kid had one of those once
2022-11-05T21:59:57 < zyp> doctor at one of the routine checkups was worried about something, don't remember exactly what, and referred her to a heart checkup
2022-11-05T22:00:23 < zyp> so she got a 12-lead ECG and a heart ultrasound, but neither found anything wrong
2022-11-05T22:09:39 < PaulFertser> ECG devices have some serious filtering to get rid of mains interference I've heard.
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2022-11-05T23:03:52 < Laurence_b> https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod.static-content.quillette.com/2022/10/aaaaa.png
2022-11-05T23:11:00 < Laurence_b> which ##stm32 member is this
2022-11-05T23:16:18 < zyp> Laurence_b
2022-11-05T23:24:56 < Laurence_b> obviously
2022-11-05T23:25:49 < catphish> i just learned that twitter is losing $4M/day, where is that money coming from?! who can afford to pay $4 MILLION a DAY just to run such a thing
2022-11-05T23:25:59 < specing> Musk
2022-11-05T23:26:14 < catphish> is he putting funds in?
2022-11-05T23:26:26 < specing> he just put 44000 millions in it
2022-11-05T23:26:37 < specing> that's enough for 30 years at 4M/year
2022-11-05T23:26:59 < catphish> no, he bought it for 44B, afaik that money goes to the previous owners, not the company
2022-11-05T23:27:06 < specing> (obviously most of that did not go to the company, but still
2022-11-05T23:27:26 < catphish> but even before he bought it, who was paying that?
2022-11-05T23:28:17 < catphish> i guess the answer is the existing shareholders, they must have put money in to buy those shares
2022-11-05T23:28:54 < catphish> seems like an insane investment to me
2022-11-05T23:29:00 < catphish> i wonder how much twiter i own :(
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2022-11-05T23:30:59 < catphish> oh, obviously none now.
2022-11-05T23:32:05 < specing> :D
2022-11-05T23:32:15 < specing> catphish: companies also own their own shares
2022-11-05T23:32:22 < specing> (buybacks and such)
2022-11-05T23:32:37 < specing> so some of the money did go to twitter itself
2022-11-05T23:32:50 < catphish> yeah i've never totally understood the processes for issuing new shares, and buying them back
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2022-11-05T23:48:30 < Steffanx-> Lol I assumed it was your brother. I asked you about the day this happened, Laurenceb 
2022-11-05T23:48:42 < Steffanx-> * Laurence_b  
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2022-11-05T23:59:12 < specing> haha
--- Day changed su marras 06 2022
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2022-11-06T00:10:59 < qyx> speaking of twitter, I am in the process of mastodonting
2022-11-06T00:11:08 < qyx> if anyone is interested
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2022-11-06T01:00:26 < Steffanx-> ##stm32 is more into methadone 
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2022-11-06T01:38:54 < mawk> never heard of that Steffanx- 
2022-11-06T01:39:55 < Steffanx-> Hm
2022-11-06T01:42:53 -!- Spirit532 [~Spirit532@user/Spirit532] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2022-11-06T01:43:35 < mawk> it's time for cooking a kg of spek
2022-11-06T01:43:43 < mawk> I am true dutch now Steffanx- 
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2022-11-06T01:50:31 < Steffanx-> Rrruuuunnn
2022-11-06T01:52:38 < catphish> i hate humans. i bought a faulty surface pro 5 on ebay that wouldn't boot, hoped i could fix it, couldn't fix it, sold it again on ebay. buyer just messaged me 3 days after receiving it saying screen is smashed.
2022-11-06T01:55:23 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-06T01:56:55 < catphish> the amount of packing material i used means that i'm almost 100% sure that this person bought the device in the hopes of fixing it, damaged the screen while attempting to disassemble it, and claimed it arrived damaged
2022-11-06T02:03:03 < Steffanx-> Hmpf that sucks
2022-11-06T02:04:21 < rustyaxe> always take pre-shipping pictures. Can you open a carrier claim?
2022-11-06T02:06:14 < catphish> sent item vs received item: https://imgur.com/a/NOmKlRd
2022-11-06T02:06:53 -!- Laurence_b [~Laurenceb@13.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-11-06T02:07:48 < catphish> the value simply isn't enough to warrant a dispute with either the buyer or the carrier, it was already sold as faulty
2022-11-06T02:07:51 < rustyaxe> i cant open imgur galleries, their website is broke
2022-11-06T02:09:14 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/N8S6hPn.jpg
2022-11-06T02:09:20 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/rYm6DuQ.jpg
2022-11-06T02:16:01 < rustyaxe> yea i'd do a claim with ebay on that, just cuz they're trying to pull some fraudy shit :\
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2022-11-06T02:17:26 < catphish> i already just refunded them the money, not worth the hassle, literally no way anyone can prove one way or another :(
2022-11-06T02:18:10 < catphish> wish i'd just harvested it for parts though
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2022-11-06T02:35:35 < t4nk_fn> lol
2022-11-06T02:36:26 < t4nk_fn> I recognize those cases of 'faulty lcd', after they've been manhandled by me
2022-11-06T02:38:25 < t4nk_fn> as it happens, I received 3 lcd screens from china today :)
2022-11-06T02:39:06 < specing> lol manhandled
2022-11-06T02:40:20 < t4nk_fn> yeah, I always seem to think a hammer can fix anything
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2022-11-06T02:42:21 < t4nk_fn> I was going to connect some 2.8" touch screen tft to a blue pill btw
2022-11-06T02:42:38 < t4nk_fn> I think I need some ILI9341 driver
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2022-11-06T03:03:06 < Laurence_b> >If you want an example of what Rust provides look no further than the Rust compiler itself, written in Rust of course. It's slow, bloated, uses insane amounts of RAM, bugs, etc, etc. This is what you're getting when you choose Rust.
2022-11-06T03:04:48 < t4nk_fn> *sigh*, what a Messss this cubeide is... you think 'I'll just setup a quick program'... next thing you know, the darned clock configuration is going crazy for no reason :|
2022-11-06T03:06:28 < specing> Laurence_b: yup, that sums it up
2022-11-06T03:06:41 < specing> Laurence_b: I can barely compile firefox on 8gb ram
2022-11-06T03:19:46 < t4nk_fn> loooookmaaaaannnnnnnn, they sent me a BROKEN LCD!
2022-11-06T03:20:00 < t4nk_fn> let me just snap a few pictures, and ask for a refund :b
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2022-11-06T03:42:36 < Laurence_b> those god hating communists!
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2022-11-06T04:05:30 < t4nk_fn> well, to be fair... all of the lcds work ;)
2022-11-06T04:10:47 < t4nk_fn> it's just that this particular driver I'm using right now is rubbish
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2022-11-06T04:17:21 < t4nk_fn> I'll try to play some video tomorrow
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--- Log closed su marras 06 06:32:32 2022
--- Log opened su marras 06 06:32:43 2022
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2022-11-06T16:09:14 < Laurence_b> lunix fail
2022-11-06T16:09:36 < Laurence_b> I have to use TAP to get DHCP to work over a tunnel
2022-11-06T16:09:50 < Laurence_b> should be an option to set a fake MAC address
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2022-11-06T16:53:04 < Laurence_b> when you use a TAP interfacce on lunix to talk to ethernet, does it spoof the MAC address of your hardware?
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2022-11-06T18:03:20 < zyp> Laurence_b, your question doesn't make sense
2022-11-06T18:03:45 < Laurence_b> hmm
2022-11-06T18:04:01 < Laurence_b> I thought TAP could be used to bridge ethernet networks?
2022-11-06T18:04:12 < zyp> I'm pretty sure if you create a TAP interface and don't explicitly set a MAC address for it, it random generates one
2022-11-06T18:04:31 < zyp> yeah
2022-11-06T18:04:51 < zyp> a TAP interface is effectively a virtual network card
2022-11-06T18:06:18 < zyp> if you're running a bridge between a TAP interface and a real interface, the MAC address of the bridge interface will be assigned in the usual manner for bridge interfaces, which IIRC is to use the MAC of the first added interface to the bridge
2022-11-06T18:07:06 < Laurence_b> but what happens to ethernet packets that enter the TAP interface and go to the real interface?
2022-11-06T18:07:22 < Laurence_b> do they keep their original MAC address?
2022-11-06T18:07:38 < zyp> of course, that's how a L2 bridge works
2022-11-06T18:07:58 < Laurence_b> ah cool
2022-11-06T18:07:59 < zyp> assuming you've got a L2 bridge
2022-11-06T18:08:11  * Laurence_b is trying to run ip over rs485
2022-11-06T18:08:36 < zyp> a L2 bridge is effectively an ethernet switch
2022-11-06T18:08:52 < zyp> and switches don't rewrite packets, just forwards them
2022-11-06T18:08:55 < Laurence_b> ah ok thats a simple way to think about it
2022-11-06T18:09:38 < Laurence_b> linux tap is weird as it has to be read and written as whole L2 frames, but is just a simple file handle
2022-11-06T18:09:56 < Laurence_b> I guess thats where the file queue feature helps
2022-11-06T18:32:07 < jpa-> it's quite common for devices to care about write() buffer size
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2022-11-06T19:01:26 < kaki> sandisk wireless connect only option for cnc-machine running from usb stick for wireless upload of G-files?
2022-11-06T19:02:58 < jpa-> raspberry pi + usb mass storage gadget driver could do it
2022-11-06T19:03:13 < catphish> what should i build?
2022-11-06T19:06:47 < kaki> jpa-: i try to avoid rpi
2022-11-06T19:07:26 < jpa-> beaglebone + usb mass storage gadget driver could do it
2022-11-06T19:08:00 < jpa-> ESP32 + usb mass storage device driver could do it
2022-11-06T19:08:37 < jpa-> NAS box that supports access by USB and by network simultaneously could do it
2022-11-06T19:12:33 < kaki> :o
2022-11-06T19:12:44 < Laurence_b> kaki: CM4 is pretty pro
2022-11-06T19:12:55 < kaki> ?
2022-11-06T19:13:03 < kaki> cyanogenmod4?
2022-11-06T19:13:24 < kaki> I would rather use old android phone than rpi
2022-11-06T19:14:25 < jpa-> so why don't you?
2022-11-06T19:16:31 < kaki> I just realized the option
2022-11-06T19:17:07 < kaki> I in fact have some moto g5 or something somewhere
2022-11-06T19:18:32 < Laurence_b> wtf
2022-11-06T19:18:44 < Laurence_b> at least rpi is documented
2022-11-06T19:19:20 < Laurence_b> latest rpi is half decent at last, CM4 is kind of pro
2022-11-06T19:19:38 < specing> rpi documented hahahaha
2022-11-06T19:19:49 < kaki> ^
2022-11-06T19:19:57 < Laurence_b> heh
2022-11-06T19:20:13 < Laurence_b> sleep modes are still broken and no real time clock of course
2022-11-06T19:20:41 < Laurence_b> but thats no worse the BBB unless they fixed the bazillion PMIC bugs
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2022-11-06T19:53:37 < qyx> wat bbb has proper sleep modes
2022-11-06T19:53:49 < qyx> atleast the octavo som has
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2022-11-06T22:42:17 < karlp> lol, went and started re-designing the power stage for this fucking hub project so that jlc could assemble it, switched from sic437 to sic402, as the latter is instock in jlc parts, and pretty similar.
2022-11-06T22:42:33 < karlp> just gone to go look at things, and the original sic437 is now available as a jlc part, so no redesign needed at all :)
2022-11-06T22:58:54 < qyx> I want a hub in those lolgrand sockets
2022-11-06T22:59:18 < zyp> lolgrand?
2022-11-06T22:59:45 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p4PEZ
2022-11-06T23:00:13 < zyp> ah
2022-11-06T23:00:22 < zyp> system 45 or whatever it was called
2022-11-06T23:00:29 < qyx> and put USB cables inside as the code recommends
2022-11-06T23:00:30 < qyx> not.
2022-11-06T23:01:15 < zyp> I want usb-c hubs
2022-11-06T23:01:18 < qyx> they offer original USB charging 45 mm modules
2022-11-06T23:01:27 < qyx> so I guess I could replace the electronics inside
2022-11-06T23:01:29 < qyx> but for that price..
2022-11-06T23:03:31 < qyx> [ 2545.362412] usb 1-3: Product: STM32 STLink
2022-11-06T23:03:31 < qyx> [ 2545.362416] usb 1-3: Manufacturer: STMicroelectronics
2022-11-06T23:03:31 < qyx> [ 2545.362420] usb 1-3: SerialNumber: 0671FF515254667267044309
2022-11-06T23:03:31 < qyx> [ 2545.365742] usb 1-3: can't set config #1, error -71
2022-11-06T23:03:41 < qyx> or maybe I don't want to see USB anymore
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2022-11-06T23:04:56 < zyp> I'm also kinda tired of 95% of USB-C hub/dock stuff being tethered
2022-11-06T23:05:07 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2022-11-06T23:06:41 < zyp> I'm assuming the benefit of making it tethered is that they can cut the cost of the orientation mux that a socket would require
2022-11-06T23:07:01 < zyp> but still
2022-11-06T23:09:04 < zyp> I've got a usb-c dock with hdmi, ethernet, audio and card readers, and I've used it with a usb2 A-C cable a couple of times, simply because that's enough to use the card reader part of it, and the computer I wanted to use it with doesn't have usb-c ports
2022-11-06T23:09:46 < zyp> but the main benefit is that I can use it with a long cable, rather than the included 15cm one
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2022-11-07T11:59:18 < benishor> I have a weird problem on a h7
2022-11-07T11:59:20 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/VGfvPQVs
2022-11-07T11:59:38 < benishor> w[j] = c; crashes after a while
2022-11-07T11:59:50 < benishor> however w[j] = a; or w[j] = b; do not crash
2022-11-07T11:59:57 < benishor> not really sure how to debug this
2022-11-07T12:00:32 < benishor> it has to do with floating points, but what?
2022-11-07T12:00:41 < benishor> there's no division in there to suggest a division by zero
2022-11-07T12:01:19 < benishor> it also happens after a while, which means data converges to a point in which it breaks
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2022-11-07T12:04:37 < karlp> so, what's the crash?
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2022-11-07T12:04:52 < Laurence_b> sup
2022-11-07T12:05:04  * Laurence_b is getting confused by ethernet
2022-11-07T12:06:01 < Laurence_b> documentation says ethernet doesnt try to resend on error, yet if I introduce interference on ethernet link between two Rpis, the throughput goes way down, yet error counters in ifconfig stay at zero
2022-11-07T12:06:14 < Laurence_b> like there is some hidden auto resend in operation at low level
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2022-11-07T12:14:25 < benishor> karlp: nevermind, peback
2022-11-07T12:14:42 < karlp> always good to fill in people hwen you solve shit so they don't go looking at things you've already solved ;)
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2022-11-07T12:25:55 < benishor> karlp: it wasn't a crash per-se so no lesson to be learned :/
2022-11-07T12:33:57 < karlp> so when you said crash, you were just what, going on the internet and _lying_ ? :)
2022-11-07T12:34:01 < drzacek> benishor, call me stupid, but where do you define w?
2022-11-07T12:34:43 < karlp> somewhere in the "..." stuff...
2022-11-07T12:35:19 < benishor> yeah
2022-11-07T12:35:54 < drzacek> index out of bonds? or how it's called when you try to access stuff outside the array?
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2022-11-07T12:38:51 < Laurence_b> maybe tx error is being detected at the transceiver auto resends the last packet?
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2022-11-07T12:39:04 < Laurence_b> *detected at the transmitted
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2022-11-07T12:39:17 < Laurence_b> *transmitter I cant english
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2022-11-07T13:29:31 < benishor> [12:33] <karlp> so when you said crash, you were just what, going on the internet and _lying_ ? :) 
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2022-11-07T13:29:45 < benishor> no, frozen UI made me think it was a crash
2022-11-07T13:30:14 < benishor> but it turns out if was a different problem which coincidently appeared at the same time
2022-11-07T13:30:25 < benishor> and since the context is quite large it's not worth sharing :)
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2022-11-07T18:14:31 < begriffs> How do people sniff a USB session between computer and device? I'm guessing a logic analyzer, but is there a special cable with a tap in the middle for the analyzer?
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2022-11-07T18:16:14 < rkta> wireshark
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2022-11-07T18:18:35 < begriffs> oh cool, thought that was just for traditional networks, but now that you say that I see https://wiki.wireshark.org/CaptureSetup/USB
2022-11-07T18:19:15 < karlp> it's very handy, but it will only show you down to a certain level.  in many cases that's enough.
2022-11-07T18:19:23 < karlp> but it won't show you the whole picture.
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2022-11-07T18:26:43 < jpa-> and when you want to get lower, you can either use a specialized USB analyzer, or make a tap cable for logic analyzer
2022-11-07T18:26:56 < jpa-> the second one works fine up to USB FS
2022-11-07T18:27:06 < begriffs> I'm having an issue with enumerating my device, and want to see what, if anything, is being sent over the wire
2022-11-07T18:27:31 < begriffs> It's USB FS
2022-11-07T18:30:01 < begriffs> Are there commercially available tap cables?
2022-11-07T18:31:22 < karlp> a variety of hobbiest stuff: https://blog.tindie.com/2016/09/usbuddy-usb-development-tool/
2022-11-07T18:32:42 < begriffs> Perfect! Thank you!
2022-11-07T18:34:17 < begriffs> Is a cheapo 24mhz analyzer fast enough to capture USB FS? https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803626095507.html
2022-11-07T18:34:50 < jpa-> no, you need at least 48 MHz samplerate
2022-11-07T18:35:08 < begriffs> any analyzer recommendations?
2022-11-07T18:35:49 < karlp> you used to be able to get pretty functional old logic16 clones, that worked well, and were even available with open bitstreams and fw
2022-11-07T18:35:58 < karlp> they're not real common on ali and friends anymore 
2022-11-07T18:36:19 < karlp> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Mcupro_Logic16_clone
2022-11-07T18:37:03 < begriffs> so maybe I should go with salaea logic 8 using a hobbiest discount? It's still >$200 ...
2022-11-07T18:37:04 < jpa-> begriffs: looks like those FX2 cheapies can actually capture 4 channels at 48 MHz, so might work
2022-11-07T18:37:54 < aandrew> yeah FX2LP dev boards are awesome little devices
2022-11-07T18:37:59 < aandrew> can't beat 'em for $3
2022-11-07T18:39:51 < jpa-> i ordered kingst LA5032 to get 32 channels, pretty expensive but will save the time
2022-11-07T18:41:12 < aandrew> I have not needed more than about 6 digital channels more than a handful of times, and nothing as wide as 32 bits in ... 20 years
2022-11-07T18:43:32 < jpa-> yeah.. lot's of SCSI stuff this year
2022-11-07T18:43:46 < jpa-> -'
2022-11-07T18:45:30 < jpa-> begriffs: i have one of those cheap 8 channel analyzers, tried with pulseview just now but it won't capture more than 7000 samples at 48 MHz
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2022-11-07T18:49:14 < jpa-> begriffs: looks like usb decoding works fairly ok even with 24MHz capture, but it might depend on your luck  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_24MHz.png
2022-11-07T18:49:38 < aandrew> jpa-: wow really
2022-11-07T18:49:44 < aandrew> you're designing/debugging SCSI hardware?
2022-11-07T18:50:31 < jpa-> aandrew: it seems so, https://github.com/ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware
2022-11-07T18:51:30 < jpa-> the previous designs ran out of parts & there are no FPGAs to port them to, so apparently there was a need for a GD32 / RP2040 version
2022-11-07T18:52:40 < jpa-> i'm a bit surprised at the market size actually, with the thousands of units sold this year it's probably the most widely used hardware thing i've ever designed
2022-11-07T18:55:58 < aandrew> huh, how'd you get into that?
2022-11-07T18:56:11 < aandrew> good on you though, I'm envious. :-)
2022-11-07T18:56:38 < jpa-> apparently from this channel
2022-11-07T18:57:10 < jpa-> i'm just contracting on hourly basis
2022-11-07T18:58:35 < karlp> when there's already a gd32 version, what's the apeal of the rp2040 version?
2022-11-07T18:58:41 < karlp> because buyers wanted a rpi inside?
2022-11-07T18:59:43 < jpa-> faster with pio
2022-11-07T18:59:54 < jpa-> and apparently the GD32 chip ran out of stock also :D
2022-11-07T19:02:03 < jpa-> and i guess RP2040 is even cheaper than GD32, though i haven't been counting the beans
2022-11-07T19:03:33 < aandrew> rp2040 can be obtained and is more "known" than gd32
2022-11-07T19:06:21 < karlp> not sure that matters when it's not an end user dev board...
2022-11-07T19:06:37 < karlp> I mean, it's gpl, yes, but I doubt there's very many people doing that..
2022-11-07T19:08:29 < jpa-> buying RP2040 seems to be much easier
2022-11-07T19:08:54 < jpa-> GD32 can be bought, but then when you buy 5000 the stock runs out and you need to figure out if some other ram size / rom size etc. is good enough
2022-11-07T19:09:21 < jpa-> RP2040 there is just the one part number :D
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2022-11-07T19:46:57 < machinehum> Hello stm32
2022-11-07T19:49:16 < jpa-> hello hummer
2022-11-07T19:53:59 < Steffanx-> Gooday fellow ##stm32 people. How is the day today?
2022-11-07T19:56:37 < machinehum> good
2022-11-07T20:11:30 < catphish> it's boring
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2022-11-07T20:22:07 < Steffanx-> Make it less boring catphish 
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2022-11-07T21:07:26 < machinehum> I wonder if I'm getting laid this week
2022-11-07T21:07:33 < machinehum> laid off*
2022-11-07T21:07:49 < mawk> probably not machinehum 
2022-11-07T21:07:53 < mawk> you're on ##stm32 
2022-11-07T21:08:36 < Steffanx-> Would you care machinehum ?
2022-11-07T21:08:52 < machinehum> Steffanx-: I would be thrilled
2022-11-07T21:09:06 < machinehum> Because guess who's not getting their 60k tek scope back
2022-11-07T21:09:07 < Steffanx-> Exciting..
2022-11-07T21:09:19 < mawk> did you leave them your scope machinehum ?
2022-11-07T21:09:29 < machinehum> I have theirs
2022-11-07T21:09:45 < mawk> how much is it worth?
2022-11-07T21:09:54 < machinehum> Around 60k
2022-11-07T21:10:06 < mawk> o
2022-11-07T21:10:35 < catphish> machinehum: do you work for twitter? if so, yes
2022-11-07T21:10:41 < machinehum> meta bro
2022-11-07T21:10:44 < machinehum> I'm a metamate
2022-11-07T21:11:14 < machinehum> Ships sinking, grab all the EE equipment and get on the rafts
2022-11-07T21:11:50 < catphish> what do you make?
2022-11-07T21:12:04 < machinehum> American dollars
2022-11-07T21:12:08 < specing> lol
2022-11-07T21:12:31 < kaki> investors realizing GAFA is just hot air?
2022-11-07T21:12:47 < Steffanx-> For some reason I aways think machinehum would make beaver bucks
2022-11-07T21:12:57 < machinehum> I am Canadian
2022-11-07T21:13:12 < Steffanx-> Oh lol.
2022-11-07T21:13:24 < braindamage> it's better if the fake money is a foreign currency, don't fuck up your own economy, etc
2022-11-07T21:13:40 < machinehum> There's a long story about how I packed up my shit and went home when covid happened
2022-11-07T21:14:02 < machinehum> Then they got pissed because I was should have been living in the us working from home
2022-11-07T21:14:34 < catphish> why would they care?
2022-11-07T21:14:44 < machinehum> dunno
2022-11-07T21:14:50 < machinehum> They havn't produced a valid reason
2022-11-07T21:14:53 < Steffanx-> Don't you all work in the metaverse???!!
2022-11-07T21:14:58 < catphish> tax headache for them?
2022-11-07T21:15:08 < machinehum> catphish: probably
2022-11-07T21:15:19 < machinehum> There's a silly amount of Canadians working for them
2022-11-07T21:15:25 < machinehum> They all want to come home
2022-11-07T21:15:35 < machinehum> And have been pestering me on how to do it
2022-11-07T21:15:43 < machinehum> I'm like "pack up your shit, and drive home
2022-11-07T21:16:12 < catphish> it's probably easier for them if they don't know :)
2022-11-07T21:17:22 < machinehum> Yes
2022-11-07T21:17:39 < machinehum> You guys think that's too long for a gate signal
2022-11-07T21:17:41 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/unOSR3R
2022-11-07T21:18:04 < catphish> depends how fast you want it.
2022-11-07T21:18:16 < machinehum> I tried routing it along the top, but then it goes by the 120V line... which the datasheet says to avoid
2022-11-07T21:18:39 < machinehum> Maybe I should rotate those fets 90deg CCW
2022-11-07T21:18:54 < machinehum> Yeah that's the way
2022-11-07T21:19:08 < machinehum> catphish: 60hz
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2022-11-07T21:22:44 < jpa-> seems fine to me
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2022-11-07T21:23:46 < jpa-> hard to imagine a fet where the length would matter that much, and if inductance is the problem just make it wide enough
2022-11-07T21:24:07 < catphish> at 1Hz, its probably fine
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2022-11-07T21:24:39 < jpa-> edge speed is what matters, not frequency
2022-11-07T21:25:30 < machinehum> Yeah I'll leave it
2022-11-07T21:25:45 < machinehum> I'm paranoid because I couldn't get the last boards working
2022-11-07T21:26:19 < jpa-> not even enough to get them to burn?
2022-11-07T21:28:41 < machinehum> hmm?
2022-11-07T21:36:10 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/VttHAo3
2022-11-07T21:36:14 < machinehum> Looks better I think
2022-11-07T21:36:50 < machinehum> That moves the gnd closer to the IC as well, and doesn't effect the powerpath much
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2022-11-07T21:48:15 < drzacek> hello there
2022-11-07T21:48:37 < drzacek> what am I doing wrong - hal delay not working, hal_gettick returns 0 - clearly systemtick is not being incremented? why?
2022-11-07T21:50:05  * drzacek clicks something in cubemx stuff, saves and is asked to regenerate code
2022-11-07T21:50:51 < drzacek> cubeide: "okay am gonna download the firmware for that chip real quick" -> wtf dude, what have you been using till now??
2022-11-07T22:01:04 < begriffs> jpa-: thanks for sharing your pulseview analyzer test
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2022-11-07T22:10:17 < Laurence_b> wew Barbs isnt senile after all
2022-11-07T22:11:16 < kaki> who is barbs..
2022-11-07T22:11:38 < Laurence_b> Chris Chans mum
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2022-11-07T22:32:07 < drzacek> I am sorry to annoy again, but I am still struggling with my problem. What could be the reasons for the systick to not be incremented? 
2022-11-07T22:34:07 < kaki> has hal mainloop been started?
2022-11-07T22:34:15 < kaki> or whatever it's called
2022-11-07T22:36:25 < drzacek> not sure, but I think so. I can use the hal gpio write functions, but since no delay I just set breakpoints, and I can see the LEDs toggle. 
2022-11-07T22:37:07 < drzacek> could it be with the boot0/1/3 pins/bits? it's that tiny cheap 20-pin package and it has no exposed boot pin, at least not in base config. do I need to set something right to get it running properly?
2022-11-07T22:47:39 < drzacek> hmmm according to stm32cubeprogrammer the option bytes are set properly, so it doesn't need any bit or pin set, starts the main flash https://pic.infini.fr/8MApC99Y/s2ZPms99.png
2022-11-07T22:47:46 < drzacek> dunno, I give up for today
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2022-11-07T23:45:45 < qyx> so, any recommended stm32 CBOR lib?
--- Day changed ti marras 08 2022
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2022-11-08T01:39:22 < Laurence_b>  Wilson is currently a director at the technology conglomerate Broadcom Inc.[6][7] In 2011, she was listed in Maximum PC as number 8 in an article titled "The 15 Most Important Women in Tech History".
2022-11-08T01:39:24 < Laurence_b> kek
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2022-11-08T12:57:33 < Laurence_b> suppp
2022-11-08T12:57:40 < Laurence_b> muh codez is being weird
2022-11-08T12:58:08 < Laurence_b> I have an open socket with loads of queued data, yet the receiving process doesnt seem to be getting the data
2022-11-08T13:01:02 < catphish> what does the receive code look like? and are you sure data is in the receive buffer?
2022-11-08T13:01:50 < catphish> the most obvious reason you don't receive data is because you asked for more, and there's not enough to fulfil your request yet
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2022-11-08T13:33:37 < Laurence_b> think I found the issue
2022-11-08T13:33:53 < Laurence_b> I was using return code from recvmsg as number of bytes in buffer
2022-11-08T13:33:59 < Laurence_b> thats not always true
2022-11-08T13:37:05 < Laurence_b> presumably iov_len is a writeback...
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2022-11-08T14:08:38 < drzacek> ahoy
2022-11-08T14:10:40 < srk> cau
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2022-11-08T14:52:14 < drzacek> okay, I got my systick to work
2022-11-08T14:52:29 < drzacek> only thing is, I dont understand why it was broken and what should be the PROPER solution
2022-11-08T14:53:11 < drzacek> I created a fresh stm32g030xxxx  project in cubeide, configured some pins, clocks etc in hardware gui, generated code and wanted to do something simple - blink LEDs
2022-11-08T14:53:35 < drzacek> hal_delay caused endless loops/hangs, hal_gettick() delivered 0, always. 
2022-11-08T14:53:58 < drzacek> few hours of debugging, reading, recompiling etc -> systick_handler() doesnt get called
2022-11-08T14:54:41 < mawk> hal_delay is a pretty bad way of doing delay
2022-11-08T14:54:42 < mawk> if you read the code
2022-11-08T14:54:53 < drzacek> yes yes
2022-11-08T14:55:08 < drzacek> should use timer and ask if counter is reached, so I can do other stuff in the meantime
2022-11-08T14:55:10 < mawk> systick_handler is called by the interrupt
2022-11-08T14:55:17 < srk> or vTaskDelay 
2022-11-08T14:55:30 < mawk> or use an interrupt, ask if counter is reached is pretty much what hal_delay does
2022-11-08T14:55:34 < drzacek> but there are other things affected by missing systick, and all hal_xx functions are using it for timeouts (spi transmit etc)
2022-11-08T14:55:35 < srk> from freertos, also xTaskGetTickCount
2022-11-08T14:55:35 < mawk> it's a busy loop
2022-11-08T14:55:42 < drzacek> anyways
2022-11-08T14:55:48 < drzacek> I've been doing some google fu
2022-11-08T14:56:06 < mawk> if systick isn't incremented it's because the systick interrupt isn't fired, or the interrupt handler doesn't call the relevant hal stuff
2022-11-08T14:56:11 < mawk> did you use cubemx to generate code?
2022-11-08T14:56:12 < drzacek> and I opened my system_stm32g0xx.c
2022-11-08T14:56:20 < drzacek> yes I did
2022-11-08T14:56:24 < mawk> look in the nvic window in cubemx 
2022-11-08T14:56:35 < drzacek> I changed this http://paste.debian.net/1259933/ to this http://paste.debian.net/1259932/
2022-11-08T14:57:05 < drzacek> and tada, it works. only I dont quite get it why it was like that - surely they dont expect users to change those files, they will be re-generated and any change will be overwritten
2022-11-08T14:57:59 < mawk> indeed
2022-11-08T14:58:04 < mawk> that's why I suggest you look at cubemx
2022-11-08T14:58:06 < drzacek> https://pic.infini.fr/X3xKlor0/7yd43jm1.png https://pic.infini.fr/3Eufb1EG/5rixcDw5.png nvic 
2022-11-08T14:58:16 < mawk> ah
2022-11-08T14:58:23 < mawk> you changed USER_VECT_TAB_ADDRESS
2022-11-08T14:58:39 < drzacek> as a desperate try, yes
2022-11-08T14:58:56 < mawk> there is a setting in the option bytes
2022-11-08T14:59:02 < mawk> about the start address; I think
2022-11-08T14:59:15 < mawk> how do you load the code on it? gdb?
2022-11-08T14:59:55 < drzacek> stlink & gdb
2022-11-08T15:00:11 < mawk> does it work if you flash the code directly?
2022-11-08T15:00:24 < mawk> instead of loading with gdb
2022-11-08T15:01:02 < drzacek> https://pic.infini.fr/2wac1Hhq/giYYmAQ6.png https://pic.infini.fr/pp1wWAhF/MhOMnD0L.png option bytes
2022-11-08T15:01:57 < drzacek> define "flash directly"? 
2022-11-08T15:02:23 < mawk> use openocd or stlink utility to write your program to flash
2022-11-08T15:02:28 < mawk> instead of using a gdb command 
2022-11-08T15:04:32 < srk> I wonder how it's different but I've already struggled with things working until coldboot
2022-11-08T15:04:44 < mawk> it might be a bank thing, you have a dual bank stm32 right drzacek ?
2022-11-08T15:04:50 < drzacek> I reverted my changes, cleaned the project, rebuilded
2022-11-08T15:04:54 < drzacek> now flashing - it works
2022-11-08T15:05:00 < mawk> nice
2022-11-08T15:05:05 < drzacek> how, why
2022-11-08T15:05:26 < srk> that exactly didn't work for me, dual bank and sleep retention on l4
2022-11-08T15:05:32 < srk> hmm!
2022-11-08T15:05:42 < drzacek> mawk, it says so in option bytes, but I'm not sure. It's rather the cheap/lower end chip, not sure
2022-11-08T15:06:24 < karlp> fuck mawk, fuck using raw flash commands "load" from gdb is best way to flash...
2022-11-08T15:07:02 < mawk> lol
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2022-11-08T15:07:10 < mawk> it was just to test karlp 
2022-11-08T15:07:15 < mawk> if it works then use it
2022-11-08T15:07:42 < drzacek> I'm not sure what just happened here
2022-11-08T15:08:05 < drzacek> why it works now with same code
2022-11-08T15:08:21 < drzacek> I'm struggling with it since yesterday :[
2022-11-08T15:08:35 < mawk> cleaning it probably did something
2022-11-08T15:08:45 < mawk> the makefile rebuilding system isn't always perfect
2022-11-08T15:08:54 < mawk> especially since ST people suck at generating makefiles
2022-11-08T15:09:32 < drzacek> oh I was cleaning and rebuilding few times, cause it does helps sometimes
2022-11-08T15:09:42 < mawk> so now try to flash with gdb and see what happens
2022-11-08T15:10:07 < mawk> I guess you can enable the define like you did if that's the fix, even though I don't know exactly why
2022-11-08T15:10:14 < mawk> I'm pretty sure it's something about dual bank but maybe not
2022-11-08T15:10:36 < mawk> maybe you have a way to know in which bank gdb is writing the code when you load it?
2022-11-08T15:10:55 < mawk> if it writes the code to a different bank and not relocate the vector table then interrupts won't fire
2022-11-08T15:12:19 < drzacek> oh
2022-11-08T15:12:20 < drzacek> eh
2022-11-08T15:12:33 < drzacek> I was flashing with gdb all the time, haven't tried the other method yet
2022-11-08T15:12:57 < drzacek> wanted to flash it with "old" version first, so the error is there, and then try to use the non-gdb method to see if it works
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2022-11-08T15:13:21 < mawk> ah
2022-11-08T15:13:28 < drzacek> isnt the dualbank for the 512k chips?
2022-11-08T15:13:30 < mawk> try to flash while the program is already running
2022-11-08T15:13:31 < mawk> maybe yeah
2022-11-08T15:14:10 < drzacek> what I have is stm32g030f6g6, it looks like a G at least. 
2022-11-08T15:14:17 < drzacek> 32k flash
2022-11-08T15:15:15 < mawk> o
2022-11-08T15:15:31 < mawk> well mess around and if you can reproduce the problem, look where VTOR is
2022-11-08T15:16:15 < mawk> did you change the systick preemption priority yourself?
2022-11-08T15:16:19 < drzacek> I guess I'll cary on with the project, maybe try to provoke the error, but if it wont happen again, I'll leave it for now
2022-11-08T15:16:29 < drzacek> now, all default
2022-11-08T15:16:35 < drzacek> *no
2022-11-08T15:17:29 < karlp> huh, cui usb-c sockets with 10000 mating cycles
2022-11-08T15:17:52 < drzacek> is it the usb mating season already?
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2022-11-08T15:25:58 < Laurence_b> mad idea: can and rs485 on same bus
2022-11-08T15:26:18 < zyp> ok
2022-11-08T15:26:30 < zyp> how and why?
2022-11-08T15:27:31 < Laurence_b> to prevent bus contention on rs485, use can to aquire the bus
2022-11-08T15:28:33 < mawk> isn't can a bit complex?
2022-11-08T15:28:47 < mawk> just to do signalling
2022-11-08T15:29:21 < jpa-> you can probably receive CAN traffic quite ok with RS485 receiver, but if you want a reply from the device then you could as well just use real CAN
2022-11-08T15:30:04 < zyp> I don't see an obvious way of how «use CAN to acquire» would work
2022-11-08T15:30:41 < zyp> just stick the data in CAN frames and call it a day
2022-11-08T15:31:03 < jpa-> there is probably CAN-to-RS485 bridges also
2022-11-08T15:31:21 < zyp> and no, you can't really run CAN on RS485 transceivers, but the opposite should work
2022-11-08T15:33:23 < zyp> CAN transceivers have defined dominant and recessive states, RS485 doesn't
2022-11-08T15:34:17 < zyp> or I guess you could hardwire data and feed actual data to DE
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2022-11-08T15:41:01 < karlp> bacnet mstp perhaps...
2022-11-08T15:41:12 < karlp> depends what his real issues are, as always.
2022-11-08T16:01:53 < Laurence_b> CAN aquires the bus neatly
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2022-11-08T16:02:24 < Laurence_b> and rs485 has better throughput of data, especially if you need to send kB of it
2022-11-08T16:03:14 < Laurence_b> so logic would just be something like "you can use the bus for 10ms if you have aquired it by sending a CAN packet, but you relinquish the bus if you dont send rs485 data for >2ms"
2022-11-08T16:03:23 < karlp> what is this "acquire" that you ened to do with rs485?
2022-11-08T16:03:31 < karlp> jesus fuck I'mglad we don't work together.
2022-11-08T16:03:48 < Laurence_b> there is no defined bus acquisition for rs485
2022-11-08T16:03:51 < Laurence_b> lmao
2022-11-08T16:03:57 < karlp> no, you just do it at protocol level.
2022-11-08T16:04:23 < karlp> one of the methods used is to _not_ tie de and /re together, and watch for your own transmissions.
2022-11-08T16:04:35 < Laurence_b> then you need a master to allocate transmitting times etc
2022-11-08T16:04:37 < karlp> if you don't receive whatyou sent, you got contention, implement app level backoff.
2022-11-08T16:04:46 < Laurence_b> yeah I guess you can have ethernet style backoff
2022-11-08T16:04:55 < zyp> that's kinda what CAN does
2022-11-08T16:05:00 < karlp> there are many options.
2022-11-08T16:05:02 < Laurence_b> yeah but its more efficient
2022-11-08T16:05:11 < Laurence_b> thats why I was thinking of using CAN
2022-11-08T16:05:29 < zyp> what rs485 baudrate are you targetting?
2022-11-08T16:05:38 < Laurence_b> 5Mbps
2022-11-08T16:05:41 < karlp> bacnet ms-tp is like a token ring over rs485, gives you ~same effect...
2022-11-08T16:05:59 < Laurence_b> interesting, thanks
2022-11-08T16:06:46 < Laurence_b> idea is to use a tap device under lunix to send ethernet frames over the rs485
2022-11-08T16:07:03 < karlp> why not just use scsi at this point? :)
2022-11-08T16:07:08 < zyp> have you considered just using ethernet?
2022-11-08T16:07:09 < Laurence_b> this is for ip between a tens of nodes all on one long cable
2022-11-08T16:07:09 < karlp> scsi2 is over rs485 isn't it?
2022-11-08T16:07:26 < Laurence_b> zyp: yeah but it needs 2 PHYs per node
2022-11-08T16:07:37 < karlp> yeah, modern single wire ethernet sounds more like what lolrence realyl needs.
2022-11-08T16:07:39 < zyp> no, you could run 10base-t1s
2022-11-08T16:07:43 < Laurence_b> and a single failing PHY kills all downstread devices
2022-11-08T16:07:44 < zyp> instead of reinventing it
2022-11-08T16:07:46 < karlp> 10bast1l or s or whichver is the multidrop one.
2022-11-08T16:07:48 < Laurence_b> hmmm
2022-11-08T16:07:55 < zyp> t1s is the multidrop one
2022-11-08T16:08:00 < zyp> t1l is p2p long range
2022-11-08T16:08:02 < Laurence_b> will that work with modern PHYs ?
2022-11-08T16:08:10 < karlp> it _only_ works with modern phys...
2022-11-08T16:08:11 < zyp> t1s requires t1s PHYs
2022-11-08T16:08:19 < karlp> ie, ^^ 
2022-11-08T16:08:50 < Laurence_b> oh thats the new one, ok
2022-11-08T16:08:53 < zyp> e.g. https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/LAN8670
2022-11-08T16:10:47 < ventYl> Laurence_b: what twisted shit are you dealing with?
2022-11-08T16:10:59 < ventYl> if standard CAN does not have enuff throughtput, use FDCAN
2022-11-08T16:11:03 < Laurence_b> 120Ohm shielded twisted pair
2022-11-08T16:11:06 < ventYl> and/or CANTP
2022-11-08T16:11:19 < ventYl> but that's bi-directional in nature
2022-11-08T16:11:21 < Laurence_b> ventYl: CANFD has low throughput on lunix
2022-11-08T16:11:35 < Laurence_b> due to interrupt response time and the short packet length
2022-11-08T16:12:00 < ventYl> I guess, that's not an issue, if your comms is not synchronous
2022-11-08T16:12:12 < ventYl> if it, then your main mistake is use of Linux there
2022-11-08T16:12:31 < Laurence_b> heh
2022-11-08T16:12:57 < Laurence_b> rs485 can squirt out a long packet quite efficiently
2022-11-08T16:13:21 < ventYl> well, RS485 is basically just link layer of CAN anyway. you can implement whatever protocol on top of that
2022-11-08T16:14:02 < ventYl> and CAN was not designed, nor intended for transmission of huge amount of data
2022-11-08T16:14:42 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-11-08T16:15:00 < Laurence_b> hmm this microchip phy is only <=15m between nodes
2022-11-08T16:15:05 < Laurence_b> I need >50m
2022-11-08T16:30:34 < Laurence_b> hmm looks like none CANFD transceivers can miss high speed CAN traffic, and incorrectly detect bus idle
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2022-11-08T16:37:31 < karlp> you want 50m, multidrop, and 5Mbps?
2022-11-08T16:37:59 < drzacek> ugh so someone here told me I can control ws2813 with spi some time ago, right?
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2022-11-08T16:38:08 < drzacek> I think I got something wrong
2022-11-08T16:39:10 < drzacek> https://www.elecrow.com/download/WS2813_LED_Datasheet.pdf so I tried understanding this doc, I kinda need to do 300ns high, 300ns low for 0 and 750ns high, 300ns low for 1, +/-
2022-11-08T16:39:52 < drzacek> so I set my spi to 8mhz, then 1 bit is what, 125ns? 3 bit high/5 bit low for "0"? and then 5 bit high/3 bit low for "1"? yet I cant get it working
2022-11-08T16:39:57 < Laurence_b> karlp: yeah
2022-11-08T16:40:02 < Laurence_b> ideally >10Mbps
2022-11-08T16:40:21 < drzacek> depending on when I set breakpoint one LED goes on (full white), beside that no effect
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2022-11-08T16:41:56 < Laurence_b> I think this can be done with stm32f103 between lunix board and the bus
2022-11-08T16:42:32 < Laurence_b> using CTS pin to stop the lunix board transmitting until bus has been aquired using stm32 CAN
2022-11-08T16:43:24 < Laurence_b> STM32 can monitor bus using RS485 rx into gpio
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2022-11-08T16:44:11 < bitmask> damn, zlib got taken down
2022-11-08T16:45:03 < rustyaxe> zlib?
2022-11-08T16:45:31 < catphish_> huge free repo of ebook PDFs
2022-11-08T16:45:32 < bitmask> access to books of all kinds, textbooks too
2022-11-08T16:45:57 < bitmask> i think the tor site is still up but thats not ideal
2022-11-08T16:46:08 < catphish_> afaik only the domain is down, the site is still fine on tor, thugh i haven't checked
2022-11-08T16:46:16 < bitmask> im checking right now
2022-11-08T16:46:21 < bitmask> yea its up
2022-11-08T16:46:46 < bitmask> you need an account for the tor site, so as long as you want less than 10 books a day its fine, just slow :)
2022-11-08T16:47:00 < bitmask> with the non tor site you could just switch your vpn server
2022-11-08T16:47:34 < bitmask> the limit is fine for most people, i just stupidly collect things im never gonna use
2022-11-08T16:47:54 < catphish_> bitmask: afaik the whole library is also in a torrent if you want to go nuts
2022-11-08T16:48:21 < bitmask> wtf how? that woudl be terabytes
2022-11-08T16:48:26 < bitmask> at least
2022-11-08T16:48:52 < catphish_> https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ymiwzs/zlibrary_isnt_really_gone_but_that_maybe_up_to_you/
2022-11-08T16:48:55 < catphish_> 27.8TB
2022-11-08T16:49:10 < catphish_> (according to that post)
2022-11-08T16:49:47 < bitmask> thats a lot less than i expected
2022-11-08T16:49:57 < bitmask> not only do they have everything, they have many copies of everything
2022-11-08T16:50:52 < catphish_> 6 million books, 5MB average per book
2022-11-08T16:51:18 < catphish_> 1TB is a LOT of text :)
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2022-11-08T16:51:46 < catphish_> i guess a lot of those books aren't image heavy
2022-11-08T16:52:41 < bitmask> guess so, a bunch of the ones ive downloaded are in the hundreds of MB but i know thats not the norm
2022-11-08T16:53:15 < catphish_> yeah, the stuff i'm normally interested in is larger, but i guess there's a lot of fiction in there too
2022-11-08T16:54:03 < bitmask> i wonder how big my collection is
2022-11-08T16:56:13 < bitmask> hmmm 123GB
2022-11-08T16:56:57 < bitmask> 20gb is from two torrents of regular book collections, the rest is textbooks and education
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2022-11-08T17:45:56 < drzacek> so it *kinda* works, I guess if you can call that - all LEDs can turn on, not off unfortunately, and each of them has different color, even tho I am sending same data for each of them 
2022-11-08T17:45:58 < drzacek> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj8-cL0inqU
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2022-11-08T17:53:15 < catphish_> bitmask: that's s substantial collection, i feel like i should collect media, but it would just be way too much cost and hassle to run all the hard drives
2022-11-08T17:54:43 < bitmask> i really wish I had a nas but that will have to wait, for now I have 2x 10TB a 4TB and the 500GB SSD for the OS on my HTPC
2022-11-08T17:55:21 < bitmask> raid would be wonderful incase of failure
2022-11-08T17:55:33 < bitmask> but thats expensive
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2022-11-08T18:10:16 < catphish_> i really wish microsoft would release a "clean" version of windows, OS only, no bundled apps, no online accounts, no nagging to use their software, no ads
2022-11-08T18:11:03 < catphish_> i don't need a virtual assistant, or a weather widget, or a cloud file storage utility, or a shareware solitaire game
2022-11-08T18:13:46 < catphish_> interweb says that stuff can all be removed after install, i guess i need to try harder, but i don't think microsoft's browser can be removed
2022-11-08T18:17:57 < BrainDamage> they are shifting their core business to information selling, so if anything, they'll move in the opposite direction of what you want
2022-11-08T18:18:00 < bitmask> can you automate it in the install?
2022-11-08T18:18:19 < bitmask> ive never looked at it but i know you can modify the install to do things
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2022-11-08T19:40:15 < machinehum> windows
2022-11-08T19:40:19 < machinehum> Havn't used that for a while
2022-11-08T19:40:50 < machinehum> When are they changing to a subscription model?
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2022-11-08T19:42:07 < jpa-> they have already, every month they ship you an update and you beam a small bit of your soul and life energy back
2022-11-08T19:42:53 < bitmask> ugh, my game engine is a mess
2022-11-08T19:43:46 < jpa-> they all are
2022-11-08T19:44:26 < jpa-> but you have a special bond with your game engine because you've taken the time to tame it, that is what matters
2022-11-08T19:44:40 < bitmask> yessir
2022-11-08T19:45:02 < bitmask> today i should find out if its salvageable or if I need a redesign
2022-11-08T19:46:12 < machinehum> bitmask: What are you making?
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2022-11-08T19:46:31 < bitmask> just messing around and making a c++ vulkan game engine
2022-11-08T19:46:50 < bitmask> maybe messing around isnt the right term
2022-11-08T19:47:04 < bitmask> i dont expect much to come of it but its a lot of work
2022-11-08T19:47:10 < bitmask> i just enjoy working on it
2022-11-08T19:48:03 < machinehum> That's cool
2022-11-08T19:48:10 < machinehum> I made a simple game with Rust a while back
2022-11-08T19:48:17 < machinehum> https://github.com/Machine-Hum/realm.one
2022-11-08T19:49:18 < bitmask> i'll take a look in a bit, finishing something up
2022-11-08T19:49:33 < bitmask> i wanna look at rust but i feel like i have too much else to do
2022-11-08T19:50:49 < specing> bitmask: learn ada
2022-11-08T19:51:20 < bitmask> riiight
2022-11-08T19:51:23 < specing> bitmask: have you thought about working on some FOSS engine instead of your very own?
2022-11-08T19:51:33 < specing> There's a lot that wouldn't mind getting vulkan support
2022-11-08T19:52:10 < bitmask> nah i just wanna work on my own
2022-11-08T19:52:17 < bitmask> learn more
2022-11-08T19:53:05 < specing> D:
2022-11-08T19:53:47 < machinehum> I taught myself rust when I had a month off
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2022-11-08T19:56:33 < bitmask> hmm, my engine is only 8000 lines of code right now, thought it would be more
2022-11-08T19:56:49 < bitmask> :/
2022-11-08T19:58:23 < specing> bitmask: most libre game engines are 200000+
2022-11-08T19:58:35 < specing> at least the 3d kinds
2022-11-08T19:58:37 < bitmask> yea well i have a long ways to go
2022-11-08T19:59:18 < bitmask> right now its just a basic 3d model viewer
2022-11-08T19:59:26 < bitmask> with some foundation for other stuff
2022-11-08T20:01:39 < bitmask> my vulkan backend didnt work well for anything but loading a single model so thats what ive been redesigning
2022-11-08T20:03:42 < bitmask> theres just a bunch of things i dont know the right way to go about it and theres very little info online
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2022-11-08T20:18:13 < specing> bitmask: one of the worst problems of foss gaming is the insane amount of time wasted maintaining 1001 quake forks. Basically every single game has their own engine and most developer time is spent on modernising it. With none/little left to actually work on the game itself
2022-11-08T20:18:30 < specing> please don't perpetuate this problem
2022-11-08T20:18:50 < bitmask> im not releasing the engine so it doesnt matter
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2022-11-08T20:19:03 < specing> you might in the future
2022-11-08T20:19:07 < bitmask> i dont have an idea for a game so i chose to make an engine to have something to work on, its not a big deal
2022-11-08T20:19:28 < karlp> NIH is the foundation of open source specing....better get used to it..
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2022-11-08T20:20:17 < jpa-> foundation of all engineering
2022-11-08T20:20:43 < bitmask> nih?
2022-11-08T20:20:59 < jpa-> national institute of not invented here
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2022-11-08T20:23:17 < bitmask> ahh never heard of that before
2022-11-08T20:29:07 < machinehum> specing: how is this a problem?
2022-11-08T20:29:41 < machinehum> Last time I checked, if you work on FOSS you can do whatever you want
2022-11-08T20:29:48 < machinehum> Because you know... you don't get paid
2022-11-08T20:30:28 < machinehum> The second you start bossing people around on what they "should" be working on, it becomes a job
2022-11-08T20:30:30 < jpa-> some people think that open source developers should produce value for others, instead of themselves
2022-11-08T20:30:58 < machinehum> Open source developers don't owe anyone shit
2022-11-08T20:31:13 < specing> machinehum: the problem is that this causes foss games to lag behind in features that modern gamers expect
2022-11-08T20:31:26 < specing> and the outcome is no players
2022-11-08T20:31:42 < machinehum> There's zero percent chance that FOSS games will ever keep up with moderns games
2022-11-08T20:31:58 < machinehum> And it has nothing to do with what you're talking about
2022-11-08T20:31:59 < specing> incorrect
2022-11-08T20:33:20 < machinehum> Here's the problem in my view
2022-11-08T20:33:55 < machinehum> Why the hell should I spend my entire life making a AAA open source game for a bunch of winey bitches who don't give a shit about open source
2022-11-08T20:34:25 < machinehum> Gamers form the worst community on the planet
2022-11-08T20:35:08 < machinehum> Lets take KiCad vs. Altium, your average person has an enormous amount of respect for KiCad and the team developing it
2022-11-08T20:35:30 < machinehum> This leads to a positive feedback loop, donations, people coming onboard
2022-11-08T20:36:09 < machinehum> This won't happen with gaming
2022-11-08T20:37:11 < specing> you're forgetting that people outside of the original developers are being paid to work on kicad because it serves an actual purpose
2022-11-08T20:37:51 < specing> and secondly I know of at least one FOSS game that is on steam and is not gratis. That is, developer actually earns money with it
2022-11-08T20:38:05 < jpa-> people can and do donate to open source games and game engines also; and especially in game engine projects, the community is really game developers, not gamers
2022-11-08T20:38:37 < machinehum> I realised that when I was making my game
2022-11-08T20:39:05 < jpa-> plenty of smaller game utility libraries like imgui have a well functioning community
2022-11-08T20:40:48 < machinehum> I'm not saying open source engines and shit doesn't make sense, of course these are supported by game developers
2022-11-08T20:40:55 < machinehum> Who are making games
2022-11-08T20:40:59 < machinehum> Which are not open source
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2022-11-08T21:09:38 < bitmask> ohhhhh reddit... : "Here is the sudo-code of"
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2022-11-08T21:22:53 < machinehum> Has anyone used Twister on zephyr
2022-11-08T21:22:58 < machinehum> To run on real hardware
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2022-11-08T21:43:32 < karlp> twister?
2022-11-08T21:43:49 < machinehum> Yeah it's their CI thing
2022-11-08T21:43:53 < machinehum> Works pretty well
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2022-11-08T22:36:02  * Laurence_b is playing with his reinvented ethernet
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2022-11-08T22:36:18 < Laurence_b> looks like fastest is SLIP with layer 2 tunneling inside ip
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2022-11-08T22:36:40 < Laurence_b> so ethernet packets inside ip packets sent via SLIP
2022-11-08T22:37:37 < Laurence_b> this way I can bridge the system with an ethernet network
2022-11-08T22:37:55 < catphish_> SLIP?!
2022-11-08T22:38:13 < Laurence_b> and SLIP uses fast kernel drivers, faster than tap or ppp via pseudoterminals etc
2022-11-08T22:38:16 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-11-08T22:38:21 < catphish_> Laurence_b: what are you trying to do?
2022-11-08T22:38:51 < Laurence_b> catphish_: connect tens of nodes connected via a shielded twisted pair a few hundred meters long
2022-11-08T22:39:05 < Laurence_b> needs a few megabits per second of throughput
2022-11-08T22:39:50 < qyx> have you heard of 802.3cg?
2022-11-08T22:40:06 < zyp> been there, mentioned that
2022-11-08T22:40:15 < catphish_> can 10base-2 work?
2022-11-08T22:40:38 < zyp> :D
2022-11-08T22:40:39 < qyx> better do ethernet over SLIP over RS485
2022-11-08T22:41:09 < Laurence_b> qyx: thats point to point tho
2022-11-08T22:41:41 < qyx> there are 3 port switches or 2 port SPI MACs for that
2022-11-08T22:41:49 < Laurence_b> qyx: I played with tap <-> rs485, but its slower than slip as its all userspace
2022-11-08T22:41:50 < qyx> actually buyable
2022-11-08T22:42:27 < Laurence_b> catphish_: maybe, but are 10base-2 phys buyable?
2022-11-08T22:42:32 < catphish_> i just feel like ethernet is literally designed for shared mediums like this
2022-11-08T22:42:40 < catphish_> but i don't know what PHY you'd use
2022-11-08T22:42:50 < catphish_> option is is PLC, like AR7420
2022-11-08T22:42:54 < catphish_> *option 3
2022-11-08T22:43:01 < catphish_> but that's messy
2022-11-08T22:44:15 < Laurence_b> problem with this rs485 solution is it needs an stm32 at each node to aquire the bus using can
2022-11-08T22:44:33 < Laurence_b> trying to acquire the bus using lunix userspace code is too slow
2022-11-08T22:44:35 < catphish_> what would happen if you just connected a 10Base-T PHY to the TX and RX of a RS485 transceiver?
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2022-11-08T22:44:57 < Laurence_b> lol maybe I should try haxoring something like that
2022-11-08T22:45:19 < catphish_> i feel like more work is needed, but ethernet is 100% designed for shared mediums, there really should be a way
2022-11-08T22:45:26 < Laurence_b> can probably haxor the can version with an stm32f103 olimexino
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2022-11-08T22:51:58 < catphish_> Laurence_b: the thing that seems like it would be troublesome using something like SLIP is collision avoidance
2022-11-08T22:51:59 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-11-08T22:52:14 < catphish_> ethernet is designed to listen for free time on the line, like CAN does
2022-11-08T22:53:29 < Laurence_b> yeah, to solve this problem I was thinking of combining rs485 with can for flow control
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2022-11-08T22:54:42 < catphish_> i actually find it odd that this isn't a more common standard
2022-11-08T22:55:16 < zyp> it is, it's called 10base-t1s
2022-11-08T22:55:45 < catphish_> oh, cool
2022-11-08T22:55:54 < zyp> except it's rated for shorter distances than Laurence_b wants, which to me suggests that what Laurence_b wants might be infeasible
2022-11-08T22:56:27 < zyp> I figure if longer ranges were doable, t1s would already do it
2022-11-08T22:56:34 < catphish_> CAN can handle large distances surprisingly well
2022-11-08T22:56:42 < zyp> at which speeds?
2022-11-08T22:56:52 < catphish_> good question
2022-11-08T22:57:06 < zyp> exactly, can would do fine, except Laurence_b wants faster
2022-11-08T22:57:22 < catphish_> "Bit rates up to 1 Mbit/s are possible at network lengths below 40 m"
2022-11-08T22:57:35 < catphish_> actually, even modern ethernet can only do 100m
2022-11-08T22:57:56 < catphish_> so more than that is surely going to need lower speeds
2022-11-08T22:58:19 < zyp> not true, 10base-t1l can do more than a kilometer
2022-11-08T22:58:28 < zyp> but it's point to point
2022-11-08T22:58:36 < catphish_> zyp: i was referring to CAN
2022-11-08T22:58:51 < catphish_> you asked me what speeds CAN can do
2022-11-08T22:59:05 < zyp> you said modern ethernet, t1l is a form of modern ethernet
2022-11-08T23:00:35 < catphish_> ah i see the confusion. i answered your question then made an entirely unrelated point about ethernet :)
2022-11-08T23:00:51 < qyx> CAN can go much longer
2022-11-08T23:01:05 < qyx> the standard only limits speed during the arbitration phase
2022-11-08T23:01:25 < qyx> so eg. 250 m at 250 kbit/s or so
2022-11-08T23:01:30 < catphish_> qyx: you must be referring to variable rate CAN?
2022-11-08T23:01:36 < qyx> and the data phase with CAN-FD can go faster, eg. 1 mbit/s
2022-11-08T23:01:36 < catphish_> i've only used fixed rate
2022-11-08T23:01:43 < qyx> yeah
2022-11-08T23:01:51 < qyx> I am using that for briges
2022-11-08T23:02:03 < qyx> but I plan to migrate to 10Base-t1l
2022-11-08T23:02:25 < qyx> with a switch on each node as all nordic gods intended
2022-11-08T23:02:42 < zyp> enjoy the forwarding delay
2022-11-08T23:02:55 < catphish_> Laurence_b: anyway there's your best answer: Primarily, this is the new Ethernet standard 10BASE-T1L, a 2-wire Ethernet solution for line lengths of up to 1000 m at a transmission speed of 10 Mbps
2022-11-08T23:03:04 < qyx> I do not care, they even do ieee1588
2022-11-08T23:03:15 < catphish_> assuming PHYs actually exist
2022-11-08T23:03:15 < zyp> catphish_, Laurence_b wanted multidrop
2022-11-08T23:03:17 < Steffanx-> Laurence_b wont listen anyway and invent his own stuff, catphish_  :P
2022-11-08T23:03:30 < catphish_> zyp: this is multidrop afaik
2022-11-08T23:03:32 < zyp> t1l is point to point
2022-11-08T23:03:41 < zyp> t1s is multidrop, but shorter range
2022-11-08T23:03:41 < qyx> no, t1s is multidrop
2022-11-08T23:04:01 < catphish_> ooh, i missed the differentiation between t1l and t1s
2022-11-08T23:04:37 < zyp> not sure what the letters stand for, but I remember them as «shared medium» and «long range» :p
2022-11-08T23:05:14 < qyx> oh but but
2022-11-08T23:05:32 < qyx> Laurence_b: do a wifi over twisted pair! just use a balun
2022-11-08T23:05:49 < catphish_> i wonder is PLC might actually be a sane option here
2022-11-08T23:06:14 < zyp> qyx, haha, just wire up a bunch of esp32
2022-11-08T23:06:19 < catphish_> Homeplug AV
2022-11-08T23:07:25 < catphish_> though homeplug might not do hundreds of metres either :(
2022-11-08T23:07:35 < catphish_> http://www.helicopting.de/
2022-11-08T23:09:25 < catphish_> but... could one not just literally run ethernet frames over RS485 by hacking a transceiver in?
2022-11-08T23:10:27 < catphish_> i can't find anyone who's connected an ethernet MAC to an RS485 transceiver, and that's disapointing
2022-11-08T23:11:12 < Laurence_b> hmmm that might actually work
2022-11-08T23:11:19 < Laurence_b> nice idea
2022-11-08T23:11:40 < qyx> catphish_: probably because it is bs
2022-11-08T23:12:18 < catphish_> i'd have to read the RMII specs to see if it makes any sense
2022-11-08T23:13:12 < catphish_> i'd be more inclined to go Ethernet MAC -> 10base-T PHY -> RS485
2022-11-08T23:13:31 < catphish_> but i'm under no illusion that this will actually work
2022-11-08T23:13:37 < catphish_> but i can't think why not
2022-11-08T23:13:42 < zyp> I'd throw a small FPGA in between
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2022-11-08T23:14:03 < catphish_> oh yeah, with a FPGA it *will* work
2022-11-08T23:14:18 < zyp> assuming reasonable signal integrity
2022-11-08T23:14:31 < catphish_> serialize the RMII, transmit it, monitor for collisions
2022-11-08T23:14:45 < zyp> that's what a PHY does
2022-11-08T23:14:49 < catphish_> exactly
2022-11-08T23:14:58 < catphish_> TLDR: make the PHY in a FPGA
2022-11-08T23:15:10 < zyp> congrats, you've reinvented t1s
2022-11-08T23:15:21 < catphish_> yes, i suspect so
2022-11-08T23:15:37 < catphish_> why would the range of 1s be less than 1l though?
2022-11-08T23:15:53 < catphish_> i would assume this really depends on the number of drops
2022-11-08T23:15:53 < zyp> it's just that if it were that simple to get better performance than t1s, t1s would have better performance
2022-11-08T23:16:22 < catphish_> 1s really seems the *best* bet, since it's literally designed for purpose
2022-11-08T23:17:36 < catphish_> there is one other option, which is more like Laurence_b's original idea
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2022-11-08T23:19:09 < catphish_> implement a *lower speed* interface using STM32 with Ethernet on one side and write your own Ethernet-over-RS485 MAC on the other side
2022-11-08T23:19:49 < catphish_> that seems like it will 100% work, it might disapoint on performance, but you can adjust the speed to whatever works, because you can buffer whole frames
2022-11-08T23:20:26 < catphish_> so the STM32 receives an Ethernet frame, waits for dead time on RS485, then sends it, at whatever speeds proves to work
2022-11-08T23:21:26 < zyp> maybe just screw all that and run GPON
2022-11-08T23:21:28 < catphish_> almost definitely inferior to t1s, but cheap, and tunable to the required line conditions
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2022-11-08T23:21:34 < zyp> or docsis if you really insist on copper
2022-11-08T23:22:02 < catphish_> GPON requires a hub really
2022-11-08T23:22:04 < zyp> those both rely on passive splitters, so it'll keep working if a node dies
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2022-11-08T23:22:24 < zyp> can't you get something like 90:10 splitters?
2022-11-08T23:22:40 < catphish_> GPON only passively splits in one direction afaik, you can't communicate between neighbours, only to the hub
2022-11-08T23:23:07 < catphish_> DOCSIS might work though, or homeplug
2022-11-08T23:23:35 < catphish_> but i quite like my media converter idea
2022-11-08T23:30:38 < karlp> ok.  just gotta decide on this inductor from thejlc parts bin, and then redo the board for the revised parts...
2022-11-08T23:30:46 < karlp> nearly picked out everything frrom the cheap bin now :)
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--- Day changed ke marras 09 2022
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2022-11-09T00:20:08 < Laurence_b> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/EVB-LAN9500A-LC?qs=ydWXD%252B8LvLDm%252BWw7HFxFMg%3D%3D
2022-11-09T00:21:11 < Laurence_b> https://i.stack.imgur.com/aaRnY.png
2022-11-09T00:21:13 < Laurence_b> hmmm
2022-11-09T00:21:58 < Laurence_b> 100Ohm Cat5e cable impedance and 100Ohm termination resistor
2022-11-09T00:22:07 < Laurence_b> thats not far off 120Ohm
2022-11-09T00:22:24 < Laurence_b> maybe an off the shelf 10/100 PHY could be used
2022-11-09T00:24:03 < kaki> hello ethernet phy
2022-11-09T00:25:25 < Laurence_b> hmm no, it cant do base-t1
2022-11-09T00:27:44 < kaki> what you doings?
2022-11-09T00:30:23 < Laurence_b> wondering if I can haxor an off the shelf usb-ethernet adaptor
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2022-11-09T01:08:57 < qyx> karlp: you know that the time spent picking cheap components is more valuable
2022-11-09T01:09:48 < bitmask> ugh, theres gotta be a better way to hash
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2022-11-09T01:20:44 < Laurence_b> https://docs.rs-online.com/017d/0900766b814f6501.pdf
2022-11-09T01:23:13 < kaki> interestings
2022-11-09T01:24:12 < kaki> that is used to alternativelly route uart signals to usb socket of the device in certain operating modes?
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2022-11-09T01:28:06 < Laurence_b> something like that
2022-11-09T01:28:30 < kaki> what you doings?
2022-11-09T01:29:24 < kaki> did you know modem stands for modulator-demodulator
2022-11-09T01:30:52 < kaki> mo-dem
2022-11-09T01:31:42 < catphish_> yes
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2022-11-09T02:41:18 < catphish_> wow, IC fabrication appears to now actually be possible on a sane budget
2022-11-09T02:46:30 < Laurence_b> where abouts?
2022-11-09T02:46:35 < catphish_> https://www.musesemi.com/shared-block-tapeout-pricing
2022-11-09T02:47:11 < Laurence_b> holy shit
2022-11-09T02:47:23 < catphish_> there's a whole wikipedia page about it, musesemi were just the first servie listed
2022-11-09T02:47:26 < catphish_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service
2022-11-09T02:48:15 < catphish_> those prices are awesome, minimum order seems to be around $6,000
2022-11-09T02:49:33 < catphish_> shame i know *nothing* about IC design :)
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2022-11-09T02:51:19 < Laurence_b> yeah, dunno how fast those are
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2022-11-09T02:51:35 < Laurence_b> 1.6um or something?
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2022-11-09T02:53:23 < Laurence_b> if so it might be AVR tier
2022-11-09T02:53:31 < Laurence_b> so not bad for custom ic
2022-11-09T02:53:48 < catphish_> i think it's 180nm (down to 28nm)
2022-11-09T02:54:26 < Laurence_b> oh wow
2022-11-09T02:54:33 < Laurence_b> stm32 tier
2022-11-09T02:54:45 < catphish_> https://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~bbaas/116/notes/Handout.mpw.Muse.pdf
2022-11-09T02:54:52 < Laurence_b> could do proper pro stuff with that
2022-11-09T02:55:34 < Laurence_b> > receive $200 Amazon gift card
2022-11-09T02:55:37 < Laurence_b> wtf
2022-11-09T02:56:22 < catphish_> lol
2022-11-09T02:56:36 < catphish_> i thought that was odd
2022-11-09T02:57:02 < catphish_> not "submit on time or wait for the next run sucks to be you"
2022-11-09T02:57:40 < Laurence_b> looks like I could stick 10/100 ethernet down a 120ohm twisted pair using usb switch and comparator to detect tx
2022-11-09T02:57:48 < catphish_> 28nm isn't so affordable
2022-11-09T02:57:56 < Laurence_b> but it couldnt detect collision during transmit
2022-11-09T02:58:21 < catphish_> i'm assuming the cost of 1,250/mm (min 5mm) is for qty 40, and not each...
2022-11-09T02:58:33 < catphish_> but i'm often wrong :)
2022-11-09T02:59:04 < catphish_> Laurence_b: why not rs485 transceiver?
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2022-11-09T11:02:52 < karlp> qyx: no. nope.  this was personal project, it's already gone for more than 2 years, what's more time between friends.
2022-11-09T11:03:11 < karlp> and when it's ready, I have footprints and parts that have lots of alternatives.
2022-11-09T11:03:38 < karlp> the inductor ended up being only a couple of minutes, because it had already been picked with those criteria :)
2022-11-09T11:50:44 < karlp> bleh, just got pcba shits, soldered on the 1.27mm 2x5 connector and went to my desk.... and... where's the fucking cortex cables?!
2022-11-09T11:50:56 < karlp> apparently they are _all_ at home somewhere.
2022-11-09T11:54:24 < jpa-> i took them
2022-11-09T11:57:58 < Steffanx-> I always thought jpa-  was a nice friendly guy but... 😬😬
2022-11-09T11:58:50 < jpa-> i was happy with my lifetime supply of dupont wires until i got orbtrace and started using those cortex cables and losing them in project boxes
2022-11-09T11:59:01 < jpa-> so it's really zyp's fault, as usual
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2022-11-09T12:16:45 < zyp> :D
2022-11-09T12:18:03 < jpa-> orbuculum is still randomly crashing for me, but only when i'm not looking - then i restart it in a separate terminal, so i can see debug messages etc. and it never crashes :)
2022-11-09T12:18:37 < jpa-> or rather, not crashing but shutting down unexpectedly
2022-11-09T12:20:08 < zyp> I also need to get more of those, people bought all my spares
2022-11-09T12:22:31 < jpa-> i think i bought 5 cables in august but they disappeared
2022-11-09T12:22:50 < jpa-> i think i have the whole bag "somewhere"
2022-11-09T12:33:04 < Steffanx-> It's not the parrot cleaning up your workspace is it?
2022-11-09T12:45:10 < jpa-> no, i skip cleaning myself
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2022-11-09T13:04:05 < jpa-> hmm, fanning out 0.4mm WLCSP-90 takes quite high definition PCB specs
2022-11-09T13:13:15 < karlp> fun part.
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2022-11-09T13:56:34 < Laurence_b> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-adapters-converters/1901827?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-CSS_UK_EN_Computing_%26_Peripherals_Whoop-_-Interface+Adapters+%26+Converters_Whoop-_-1901827&matchtype=&pla-310201991890&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=9771206785&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=g&cq_plt=gp&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIotGVhIWh-wIVSNTtCh23NwEEEAQYASABEgLmx_
2022-11-09T13:56:35 < Laurence_b> D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
2022-11-09T14:24:51 < Laurence_b> https://hackaday.com/2015/06/12/retro-edition-the-lan-before-time/
2022-11-09T14:24:56 < Laurence_b> sheet hes done it
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2022-11-09T14:44:33 < braindamage> you can probably get 5x troughtput by not having flying wires
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2022-11-09T15:13:01 < Steffanx-> So are you one of the 11000?
2022-11-09T15:13:03 < Laurence_b> hmm actually it should be possible to make a hybrid transformer
2022-11-09T15:13:06 < Steffanx-> @ machinehum ?
2022-11-09T15:14:02 < Laurence_b> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Elektronik/750510572?qs=x30FU183Eu4XoLCqMJg6dQ%3D%3D
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2022-11-09T16:12:45 < karlp> lol, found the fucking cortex cable in the office after I got back again.
2022-11-09T16:12:51 < karlp> oh well, more exercise isn't hurting
2022-11-09T16:14:07 < karlp> "why isn't my /etc/rc.local.d run parts shit being run?....."
2022-11-09T16:14:27 < karlp> # grep run-parts /etc/rc.local
2022-11-09T16:14:29 < karlp> run-parts /etc/local.d;
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2022-11-09T16:38:42 < BrainDamage> I took me a few takes to see it too
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2022-11-09T17:45:53 < machinehum> Hello
2022-11-09T17:45:57 < machinehum> I didn't get laid
2022-11-09T17:45:59 < machinehum> off*
2022-11-09T17:46:07 < machinehum> However like 15% of the company did
2022-11-09T17:46:17 < machinehum> Oh nice 7% jump in the stock
2022-11-09T17:46:26 < machinehum> They should layoff 15% of the company everyday
2022-11-09T17:46:58 < mawk> lol
2022-11-09T17:48:07 < catphish> machinehum: i guess you can go back to your stupid metaverse project :)
2022-11-09T17:48:10 < mawk> then after 69 layoffs nobody is left in the company machinehum 
2022-11-09T17:48:12 < mawk> according to maths
2022-11-09T17:50:10 < BrainDamage> I was also calculating how many days it'd take for zuckerberg to remain alone
2022-11-09T17:50:15 < BrainDamage> got 68
2022-11-09T17:50:49 < rustyaxe> If only we could be free from the cancer of social media that quickly :O
2022-11-09T17:51:17 < catphish> after 61 rounds i got down to 4 employees, and after that firing 15% has no effect
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2022-11-09T17:53:56 < Steffanx-> I give up my twatter account if you give up your guns, rustyaxe 
2022-11-09T17:54:52 < Steffanx-> catphish you can. Take 15% of their hours..
2022-11-09T17:54:58 < Steffanx-> Until they're obsolete 
2022-11-09T17:55:32 < rustyaxe> Come collect em :P
2022-11-09T17:55:37 < Steffanx-> And round down ofcourse  
2022-11-09T17:57:01 < karlp> no-ones interested in collecting you imbecile
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2022-11-09T17:59:00 < Steffanx-> Welcome bitmask. Can you do me a favour?
2022-11-09T17:59:06 < bitmask> i can try
2022-11-09T17:59:31 < Steffanx-> Can you go visit rustyaxe to collect his firearms 
2022-11-09T17:59:48 < bitmask> whuh happen?
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2022-11-09T18:03:37 < bitmask> fine, just disappear 
2022-11-09T18:03:56 < rustyaxe> they got offended. Are they british by chance?
2022-11-09T18:04:08 < bitmask> btw, i think im not sick anymore (I think/hope)
2022-11-09T18:04:14 < rustyaxe> [10:50] < rustyaxe> If only we could be free from the cancer of social media that quickly :O [10:53] < Steffanx-> I give up my twatter account if you give up your guns, rustyaxe [10:55] < rustyaxe> Come collect em :P
2022-11-09T18:04:38 < rustyaxe> they were discussing the recent round of beheadings at fecesbook^Wmeta
2022-11-09T18:05:08 < rustyaxe> smells very british to me.
2022-11-09T18:05:12 < bitmask> is that it? were you being aggressive?
2022-11-09T18:05:39 < bitmask> hes not a brit but does live in a more sane country
2022-11-09T18:06:11 < rustyaxe> As i say, he's welcome to come try to collect them
2022-11-09T18:06:47 < karlp> we don't want them, we wnat you to stop making absurd demands on other people
2022-11-09T18:06:48 < rustyaxe> but no thats the first thing ive said in perhaps days here lol
2022-11-09T18:06:51 < bitmask> yea thats the dumb american mentality when it comes to guns that everyone hates, including me :P no offense
2022-11-09T18:07:04 < karlp> yes, the firest thing you said was to tell people to stop doing somethign.
2022-11-09T18:07:12 < rustyaxe> bitmask: Nah i feel the same way about any of my property i lawfully build, bought, or traded for. 
2022-11-09T18:07:21 < karlp> "sure, if you" "COME GET EM" 
2022-11-09T18:07:30 < bitmask> its just unnecessarily aggresive
2022-11-09T18:07:48 < catphish> i'd come get em but i wouldn't be allowed back in UK with them :(
2022-11-09T18:07:50 < bitmask> you have property, so does everyone else
2022-11-09T18:08:07 < Steffanx-> I didnt disappear. I had my colleague interrupting our conversation, bitmask :P
2022-11-09T18:08:13 < bitmask> heh
2022-11-09T18:10:10 < bitmask> rustyaxe I am an american btw, i still think our gun laws are stupid
2022-11-09T18:11:01 < catphish> don't you have just one gun law? the one that says you can't make gun laws :D
2022-11-09T18:11:08 < rustyaxe> Oh they're definitely stupid. There's far too many of them. 
2022-11-09T18:11:18 < bitmask> what state do you live in
2022-11-09T18:11:32 < zyp> state of denial
2022-11-09T18:12:04 < rustyaxe> I used to live in NY, a perfect example of way too restrictive laws. Moved to WV about a decade ago, making the same money with a quarter the cost of living and much more freedom
2022-11-09T18:12:23 < bitmask> NJ here
2022-11-09T18:14:25 < bitmask> though I don't like the town I'm currently in anymore, jared kushner is 'building it up' and its just annoying to live here now
2022-11-09T18:14:51 < catphish> if one isn't in favour of banning gun ownership, perhaps one might be in favour of toughening laws for gun *abuse*
2022-11-09T18:14:55 < catphish> https://nypost.com/2022/11/07/woman-who-shot-homeless-man-in-nashville-spared-jail-time/ :)
2022-11-09T18:15:39 < rustyaxe> we move to NY when i was little, terrible choice that. since then i've lived/worked in about 1/3 of the USA states and a few of it's occupied (at the time) territories. Ended up moving back to WV about a decade ago as I can live pretty comfortably here off 1k$/month and bank the rest.
2022-11-09T18:15:42 < catphish> "This has been the worst experience of my life" she claimed, "Sometimes hard lessons are the best lessons"
2022-11-09T18:17:19 < rustyaxe> eh if he was walking away when she shot him, she absolutely should be jailed on murder charges
2022-11-09T18:17:35 < catphish> he didn't die
2022-11-09T18:17:43 < rustyaxe> ah attempted murder then
2022-11-09T18:17:49 < rustyaxe> As she didnt have a lawful reason to shoot him
2022-11-09T18:17:51 < catphish> but he was seriously injured, so yes
2022-11-09T18:18:17 < rustyaxe> Any discharging a firearm hitting a person can be charged for attempted murder. they do it all the time when people shoot at cops
2022-11-09T18:18:20 < catphish> and there seem to have been one too many stories of police shooting people
2022-11-09T18:18:22 < rustyaxe> and dont even hit em
2022-11-09T18:19:12 < catphish> i actually really like guns, but i think shooting one in someone's direction should be a VERY serious offence
2022-11-09T18:20:02 < catphish> the idiocy i see in USA is why (despite the fact that i wish i could own a gun myself) i think the UK's gun laws are just fine the way they are
2022-11-09T18:20:04 < rustyaxe> warning shots are not a valid defense. If you feel safe enough to fire a warning shot then they aren't an immediate threat to life (or in places it applies such as texas, property)
2022-11-09T18:20:20 < bitmask>  In one instance, the woman admitted to threatening to hit a baby with a brick.
2022-11-09T18:21:03 < catphish> lol
2022-11-09T18:21:15 < catphish> i suspect she's not a very nice woman
2022-11-09T18:21:54 < Xogium> maybe she was hit with a brick as a baby too. Woops
2022-11-09T18:22:05 < bitmask> she should be hit with a brick now
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2022-11-09T19:03:27 < PaulFertser> While you're playing with the guns some others are blowing up ATMs https://nltimes.nl/2022/10/23/europol-reports-dramatic-increase-atm-explosions-across-europe
2022-11-09T19:03:47 < zyp> was that mawk or Steffanx-?
2022-11-09T19:04:19 < mawk> both
2022-11-09T19:04:19 < PaulFertser> Guess NL doesn't have enough CCTVs, unlike UK.
2022-11-09T19:04:55 < mawk> I'm alone at the office at 6pm doing sysadmin work
2022-11-09T19:04:59 < mawk> I shouldn't have said yes
2022-11-09T19:08:42 < bitmask> ohh toml is kinda nice
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2022-11-09T19:23:48 < BrainDamage> here ATMs advertise seismic sensors coupled with spray paint traps
2022-11-09T19:24:16 < machinehum> BrainDamage: Isn't that everywhere? I saw it on Trailer Park Boys
2022-11-09T19:25:21 < BrainDamage> I wonder how they can get around them, a well made system can react pretty fast
2022-11-09T19:25:34 < BrainDamage> there was a famous band of thiefs that used to blow up ATMs using natural gas tanks and piping it inside, then blowing up from within
2022-11-09T19:26:01 < BrainDamage> being inside, the explosive often incapacitated the security mechanisms at the same time
2022-11-09T19:26:49 < karlp> in other news, new pcbs have _way_ better bt performance: old and shitty: (like 10cm range) https://bin.jvnv.net/file/U27BR.png new and rad: 5m plus without trying hard: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JQ3ee.png
2022-11-09T19:29:43 < BrainDamage> the via and the recess probably didn't help
2022-11-09T19:31:34 < PaulFertser> Hm, they say using USB 3.1 cables for MCU debug is a great idea: https://habrastorage.org/getpro/habr/upload_files/2dc/725/a78/2dc725a78cfeff1f7a2d101827f75f4c.png https://habrastorage.org/getpro/habr/upload_files/2d5/132/375/2d5132375ce2b8e297d6d210fb8f5270.png
2022-11-09T19:35:24 < PaulFertser> karlp: what was your thought process, how did you find the way to improve?
2022-11-09T19:36:08 < karlp> the groudn plane to the left and right of the cavity was meant to be clear and unbroken, so we jsut pushed everything that way as much as we can.
2022-11-09T19:36:38 < karlp> the little pullback was also a mistake, the lower edge was meant to be flush with the rest of the ground plane, not indented.
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2022-11-09T19:39:05 < PaulFertser> Damn, it really is magic. But somehow BrainDamage saw it right away :)
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2022-11-09T19:42:17 < karlp> PaulFertser: isn't that habra link "normal" jtag debug accessory?
2022-11-09T19:43:32 < PaulFertser> karlp: not sure, it doesn't mention any standard. The article said they just wanted JTAG, SWD, AVR ISP, UART, led blink along with USB HS signals all on same connector and came up with that.
2022-11-09T20:03:34 < machinehum> karlp: What are you building?
2022-11-09T20:05:20 < bitmask> itchy
2022-11-09T20:27:50 < machinehum> Anyone have a pn for a test hook that plugs nicely onto a dupont wire?
2022-11-09T20:28:00 < machinehum> Ideally with those two little grabbers that come out
2022-11-09T20:28:35 < bitmask> i dont have pns but just curious, do you prefer the two pincers or the one hook
2022-11-09T20:28:57 < machinehum> Pincers
2022-11-09T20:29:00 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/e-z-hook/XKMGRY/528232
2022-11-09T20:29:02 < machinehum> Like that
2022-11-09T20:29:13 < machinehum> You can hook those onto a 0603 cap nicely
2022-11-09T20:29:35 < machinehum> But I don't think they'll plug into a normal dupont header thing
2022-11-09T20:30:00 < zyp> they do
2022-11-09T20:30:16 < machinehum> Sold
2022-11-09T20:30:48 < zyp> not sure how good they are though, I'd buy a few first to test
2022-11-09T20:30:53 < zyp> then more if you're happy with them
2022-11-09T20:31:16 < machinehum> This is a bit of a corp card situation
2022-11-09T20:31:24 < machinehum> Meaning I just bought 40
2022-11-09T20:32:07 < bitmask> I think i have one of these: https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/test-clips/grabber-test-clips
2022-11-09T20:34:13 < machinehum> Those guys are okay
2022-11-09T20:34:16 < machinehum> I have a few
2022-11-09T20:34:40 < machinehum> But those pincers are amazing for clipping to SMD components, transistor legs, caps, etc..
2022-11-09T20:34:48 < machinehum> Just picked up one of these as well BK9129B-ND
2022-11-09T20:34:52 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/b-k-precision/9129B/5519444?s=N4IgTCBcDaIEIGkCcBGMS4FoByAREAugL5A
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2022-11-09T21:37:06 < bitmask> ohhhh vulkan, fuck you
2022-11-09T21:37:31 < Laurence_b> implode the hyperloops, transport war now
2022-11-09T21:38:14 < Laurence_b> hyperboss needs to find some wamman staff to score well in gov grant schemes
2022-11-09T21:38:23 < Laurence_b> I'm not taking the HRT
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2022-11-09T21:39:26 < BrainDamage> do it for the memes
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2022-11-09T21:50:43 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/taU7mRTnrtY
2022-11-09T21:51:21 < Laurence_b> some of the staff are raging, cuz muh sexism
2022-11-09T21:51:32 < Laurence_b> they are obviously new to this shit
2022-11-09T21:52:10 < Laurence_b> I wonder if a shared media is less reliable than ethercat...
2022-11-09T21:52:33 < BrainDamage> they are raging because you're a dick and 90% of your communication is unintelligible without rotting your brain 16h/day on 4chan & co
2022-11-09T21:52:43 < Laurence_b> if someone crushed the cable and it shorted it would break everything on rs485/can, but ethercat might work
2022-11-09T21:52:44 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-11-09T21:53:00 < BrainDamage> so, indeed not sexism
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2022-11-09T21:54:29 < BrainDamage> you can put the equivalent of a packet switcher mcu to avoid can/rs485 to propagate down the line
2022-11-09T21:54:31 < zyp> Laurence_b, assuming you're running a redundant ring or something
2022-11-09T21:55:02 < zyp> but then you're introducing active forwarding in every node, more shit that can break
2022-11-09T21:55:48 < Laurence_b> I need to understand how ethercat works
2022-11-09T21:56:09 < zyp> frame rewrite
2022-11-09T21:56:24 < Laurence_b> the ti ethercat board have dual phy with tms320 hardware block in the middle, but ti forum has a design for rx only with just dual phy back to back
2022-11-09T21:56:46 < zyp> an ethercat master can be a regular ethernet card, but slaves are special
2022-11-09T21:56:52 < Laurence_b> ok
2022-11-09T21:57:50 < zyp> master sends one huge frame per bus cycle, which propagates through the slaves and gets rewritten on the fly, and ends up back at the master
2022-11-09T21:58:00 < Laurence_b> we have dual twisted pair between nodes, it has to carry power and data, but that could be done with ethercat + poe
2022-11-09T21:58:29 < zyp> since rewriting happens on the fly, it's low latency and master starts receiving the response while it's still sending the outgoing frame
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2022-11-09T21:59:07 < zyp> and then there's a couple different layers that can run on top of that
2022-11-09T21:59:33 < zyp> as I understand it, canopen is the most common one, but sercos over ethercat is apparently also a thing
2022-11-09T21:59:52 < Laurence_b> wew canopen over ethernet lol
2022-11-09T22:00:01 < Laurence_b> just to be extra awkward
2022-11-09T22:00:17 < zyp> ethernet powerlink is also a form of canopen over ethernet
2022-11-09T22:00:25 < zyp> I implemented that at $oldjob
2022-11-09T22:01:03 < zyp> EPL doesn't do frame rewriting, so it doesn't rely on special slave MACs, which is why we chose it
2022-11-09T22:01:25 < zyp> but it relies on hubs, and ethernet hubs are unobtanium, so that was a fucking stupid decision
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2022-11-09T22:30:31 < kaki> got my first notification from sfc - apparently it's being run periodically on background
2022-11-09T22:30:51 < kaki> reboot system to fix filesystem errors :o
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2022-11-09T23:24:33 < Steffanx-> Why you have fs errors mr kaki?
2022-11-09T23:24:41 < kaki> idk
2022-11-09T23:24:52 -!- Posterdati [~Posterdat@user/Posterdati] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-09T23:25:16 < kaki> hopefully it's not my kioxia
2022-11-09T23:25:30 < kaki> smart health 91%
2022-11-09T23:26:30 < Steffanx-> Hm
2022-11-09T23:39:12 < karlp> machinehum: just work stuff "a bluetooth device"
2022-11-09T23:40:04 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-11-09T23:40:35 < Steffanx-> Reminds me of your time sync experiment. Ever got acceptable results? (you probably already mentioned it, but.. dont remember)
2022-11-09T23:41:36  * karlp ponders when teh last ethernet hub asics were built
2022-11-09T23:41:51 < karlp> zyp: maybe a skywater project, build an ethernet hub again ;)
2022-11-09T23:42:23 < karlp> Steffanx-: yeah, currently sync is "fine" and today I got enough assembled parts to try out syncing the swarm.
2022-11-09T23:42:31 < karlp> many balls in the air though...
2022-11-09T23:43:11 < karlp> having to use "btmon" in sudo mode to get the accurate timing is... less than ideal, but .. after listening to lolrences ideas, I don't feel so bad about some of it.
2022-11-09T23:43:58 < Steffanx-> lol. Using blaxter's ideas to make your own ideas sound good.
2022-11-09T23:44:19 < Steffanx-> or at least to make you feel not so bad
2022-11-09T23:45:44 < karlp> eh, at least I'm using documented norms...
2022-11-09T23:45:54 < karlp> finding btmon giving me the right timing with just some grep was pretty sweet.
2022-11-09T23:46:03 < karlp> means the interface is there if I need it, saves me gross kernel shit.
2022-11-09T23:46:22 < karlp> teh bigger problem currently is that I was developing with nicely supported intel bluetooth on my laptop, 
2022-11-09T23:46:36 < karlp> rather than the precious realtek bluetooth I had the nerve to put on the boards themselves ;)
2022-11-09T23:46:59 < karlp> I hve suspicions of a bluetooth dongle being in use for the early revs...
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2022-11-09T23:49:34 < karlp> I have some weird philips AA nimh batteries.
2022-11-09T23:49:56 < karlp> I returned a pack of them as being DOA to the store, becuase they wouldn't even recognise on the charger to start charging.
2022-11-09T23:50:39 < qyx> I need some new nimh too
2022-11-09T23:50:41 < karlp> and I've just taken some out of a kids toy, 3xAA, took only a few hundrea mAh, one's up to 1200mAh already, and the third was again, zero volts on the meter, no recognition on the charger.
2022-11-09T23:50:49 < karlp> but... and I've done this a couple of times now,
2022-11-09T23:51:00 < karlp> 1.5V and 500mA on the bench supply for like 20 seconds?
2022-11-09T23:51:07 < karlp> back to 1.4V, and then charges happily.
2022-11-09T23:51:15 < karlp> but... fuck this. this is horrible!
2022-11-09T23:51:17 < qyx> arent there liion AA retrofits with dc-dc to 1.5 V?
2022-11-09T23:51:27 < karlp> sure, but these are just plain old nimh
2022-11-09T23:51:30 < karlp> or, they're _meant_ to be.
2022-11-09T23:51:45 < karlp> customer satisfaction on these must be horrible.
2022-11-09T23:52:02 < qyx> are there? I haven't seen any, I would replace my nimhs with those
2022-11-09T23:52:36 < karlp> tehse ones... https://www.ebay.com/itm/144177596224 are the ones I have.
2022-11-09T23:52:41 < karlp> um, we discussed this recently?
2022-11-09T23:52:44 < karlp> we linked piles of them
2022-11-09T23:52:48 < qyx> nope
2022-11-09T23:52:54 < karlp> they normally even come with a usb-micro for charging.
2022-11-09T23:53:11 < karlp> https://www.amazon.com/EasyPower-Rechargeable-Batteries-Pack-4-Port/dp/B072R2SWXX for starters.
2022-11-09T23:53:43 < qyx> interesting
2022-11-09T23:53:46 < karlp> hrm, this might have been on telegram
2022-11-09T23:53:51 < karlp> but these aren't new, been aroudn for years now.
2022-11-09T23:54:12 < karlp> advatnage is you get "1.5" like an alkaline,
2022-11-09T23:54:21 < karlp> downside is you don't really get any capacity advantage
2022-11-09T23:54:31 < karlp> and they almost _all_ need usb cables per battery for recharging
2022-11-09T23:55:13 < karlp> like this shit, https://www.amazon.com/USB-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-Replacement/dp/B09Z26W8W6/ even comes with the squid cable
2022-11-09T23:55:26 < BrainDamage> the 9V are somewhat usable, because you have more margin for electronics
2022-11-09T23:55:44 < BrainDamage> the 1.5, not so much, the connector takes just too much space
2022-11-09T23:56:34 < qyx> so for a 1xAA headlamp my best bet is probably some bulky 2900 mAh NiMH
2022-11-09T23:56:52 < qyx> for occassions when I need to use it continuously
2022-11-09T23:57:02 < qyx> otherwise, AA alkaline
2022-11-09T23:58:15 < karlp> or a better headlamp that boosts?
2022-11-09T23:59:23 < qyx> this one boosts but when the battery is drained it is simply drained
2022-11-09T23:59:47 < qyx> it continues to work but with low lumen output
--- Day changed to marras 10 2022
2022-11-10T00:00:15 < qyx> it also temperature derates automatically
2022-11-10T00:00:55 < qyx> a huge cons is this particular one doesn't accept li-ion AAs
2022-11-10T00:00:57 < BrainDamage> there's some flashlights that take both 1.5V AA and their lithium equivalent formats, buck-boosting as necessary
2022-11-10T00:01:22 < qyx> I have another one which does
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2022-11-10T00:02:23 < karlp> what headlamp in the "1xaa" size field are you looking at where "any" nimh isn't good enough though?
2022-11-10T00:02:49 < karlp> I mean, that size field is the ultralight super portable, and mine always last "ages" and then it's just one battery to swap a fresh one in...
2022-11-10T00:02:50 < qyx> https://www.baterky-fenix.sk/produkt/celovka-fenix-hm23/#
2022-11-10T00:03:11 < karlp> it's not like caving lights where I need _lots of light_ and will give up weight for lot sof abtteries
2022-11-10T00:03:12 < qyx> it is 200 lm
2022-11-10T00:03:28 < qyx> 240 even
2022-11-10T00:03:46 < karlp> ok... odd tradeoff.  "lots of light" but only going to allow a singel AA?
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2022-11-10T00:03:57 < karlp> how long does one normally last uyou in that thing?
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2022-11-10T00:04:09 < BrainDamage> can you dim to lower modes?
2022-11-10T00:04:21 < qyx> I was going for lowest possible weight while still being reasonable
2022-11-10T00:04:39 < BrainDamage> I use 200lm as ballpark for my flashlights, but I always want at least one mode with 100 for less blinding usage
2022-11-10T00:05:07 < qyx> karlp: half a workday on those GP recyko NiMH at the second power level
2022-11-10T00:05:26 < qyx> or on energizer alkaline
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2022-11-10T00:05:45 < qyx> idk how they managed to get 8 hours on alkaline at 240 lm
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2022-11-10T00:06:23 < qyx> on the lowest level it works another day or two
2022-11-10T00:06:45 < qyx> so I assume the problem is not the capacity but low current capability
2022-11-10T00:06:55 < specing> > GP recyko
2022-11-10T00:07:01 < specing> at least get some ikealoops ...
2022-11-10T00:07:14 < qyx> enelols were even worse
2022-11-10T00:07:19 < qyx> I didn't try ikea though
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2022-11-10T00:19:19 < karlp> huh, doing a whole workday with a headlight on single AA sized sounds like fairly unrealistic expectations for anything other than zone light....?
2022-11-10T00:19:26 < karlp> or maybe I'm living in the past?
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2022-11-10T00:25:27 < karlp> I have an old mammut headlight for just camping area sort of stuff, but I can't find any model details on it, and can't find a related one on teh web to see what lumens it is, but i'm guessing way less than 200
2022-11-10T00:27:27 < karlp> I have both of these actually, https://www.gearexposure.com/gear-review-mammut-s-lite-and-s-flex-headlamps-2/
2022-11-10T00:27:55 < karlp> 20 and 35lumens
2022-11-10T00:28:07 < karlp> the 20lumens one is a bit shitty, it's just never quite enough
2022-11-10T00:28:21 < karlp> but the 35lumens one is fine, that's been perfect for "around camp" shit
2022-11-10T00:28:30 < karlp> though I don't have heavy demands in iceland to be fair :)
2022-11-10T00:29:03 < karlp> I had a big headlamp with 4x16550 belt strap battery for caving
2022-11-10T00:29:16 < karlp> and don't begrudge the weight.
2022-11-10T00:29:33 < specing> karlp: depends what your workday is
2022-11-10T00:29:37 < karlp> absolutely.
2022-11-10T00:29:52 < karlp> I just didnt' even consider expecting a single AA sized worklight to be "all day" :)
2022-11-10T00:30:17 < qyx> I am expecting exactly that
2022-11-10T00:32:00 < qyx> 4 lm is too low, 70 lm is okay
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2022-11-10T01:25:35 < kaki> trick with headlamps etc. is after few minutes drop power 90%
2022-11-10T01:25:56 < kaki> it's per ANSI FL
2022-11-10T01:26:18 < kaki> lumen output is measured at 1min
2022-11-10T01:26:32 < kaki> and duration is measured when output falls under 5% or so
2022-11-10T01:27:38 < kaki> or 10%
2022-11-10T01:27:45 < kaki> i don't remember
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2022-11-10T01:30:20 < Laurence_b> lolll hyperboss wants to find female staff
2022-11-10T01:30:35 < kaki> interestings
2022-11-10T01:30:40 < Laurence_b> autistic troll guy suggested he try the "massage parlour"
2022-11-10T01:31:01 < Laurence_b> because government "gender equality" rules for grants
2022-11-10T01:31:26 < kaki> wat
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2022-11-10T01:32:07 < Laurence_b> you need x amount of female staff to get extra grant points
2022-11-10T01:32:26 < kaki> how is that equality
2022-11-10T01:33:00 < Laurence_b> ikr
2022-11-10T01:34:14 < specing> lmao haha
2022-11-10T01:34:28 < specing> Laurence_b: is that just female management staff or staff in general?
2022-11-10T01:34:43 < specing> Laurence_b: and is hyperboss Musk or someone else?
2022-11-10T01:34:52 < kaki> they need to find female laurenceb
2022-11-10T01:35:15 < specing> Laurence_b doesen't come in female packaging
2022-11-10T01:35:16 < kaki> stat
2022-11-10T01:35:18 < Laurence_b> just staff in general
2022-11-10T01:35:40 < Laurence_b> yeah boss guy thought he had the grant all sorted, now he realises he will lose points
2022-11-10T01:36:05 < specing> Laurence_b: have you suggested some engineers to transition to female?
2022-11-10T01:36:10 < kaki> :D
2022-11-10T01:36:13 < kaki> :DDD
2022-11-10T01:36:51 < specing> do it! I dare you!
2022-11-10T01:37:09 < kaki> what is the magnitude of the grants Laurence_b?
2022-11-10T01:38:25 < specing> someone remind me, what's even the minimum required legal procedure to change your legal sex?
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2022-11-10T01:39:21 < kaki> would hiring people sitting on their hands result in positive value?
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2022-11-10T01:43:47 < Laurence_b> yeah its about 10M
2022-11-10T01:44:54 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-11-10T01:45:10 < kaki> so you get it or don't get it? no in betweens?
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2022-11-10T01:46:58 < Laurence_b> yeah, only 5% of applicants succeed apparently
2022-11-10T01:49:23 < kaki> do you have deadline?
2022-11-10T01:49:25 < kaki> ofc
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2022-11-10T08:50:34 < zyp> karlp, the hub core itself shouldn't be very hard, but I think doing the PHYs are unrealistic
2022-11-10T08:50:48 < zyp> and if you need external PHYs, might as well just go with a small FPGA
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2022-11-10T10:52:18 < karlp> wot, u afraid of a lil analol?
2022-11-10T10:52:29 < karlp> you need 100M for it right?
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2022-11-10T14:28:16 < drzacek> hello there
2022-11-10T14:29:15 < drzacek> trying to use HAL_SPI_TRANSMIT_DMA(), but it works once (HAL_OK returned) then it reports HAL_BUSY. It looks like spi/dma inter rupt handlers are not called at all
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2022-11-10T14:48:08 < mouseghost> drzacek, did you configure them
2022-11-10T14:48:18 < drzacek> via cubemx
2022-11-10T14:50:21 < drzacek> https://imgur.com/a/46oQPOe
2022-11-10T14:51:29 < mouseghost> ah btw dont you need to start the spi transfer?
2022-11-10T14:51:39 < mouseghost> i forgor how those work
2022-11-10T14:51:59 < drzacek> I used HAL_SPI_TRANSMIT_DMA() instead of HAL_SPI_TRANSMIT()
2022-11-10T14:52:25 < drzacek> unless I need to call something first, like starting some dma/it or something - but it looks like the hal function does that internally
2022-11-10T14:52:39 < drzacek> other examples I saw in google also do it just like that
2022-11-10T14:53:06 < mouseghost> maybe get the reference for your micro and see how it should be configured
2022-11-10T14:53:20 < drzacek> ok
2022-11-10T14:53:21 < mouseghost> there likely are exact steps on what do
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2022-11-10T15:13:07 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leGvYQGK3Jg
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2022-11-10T16:52:19 < karlp> bah, gnome can double click a disk.img.xz and it will happily _write_ it uncompressed,
2022-11-10T16:52:35 < karlp> but ifyou hcoose to opent he file with the "disk image mounter" instead of the "disk image writer" it just mounts it... compressed.
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2022-11-10T17:12:21 < karlp> fuck me, I just spent far too long trying to find an armbian bug, that turns out out be in _tzselect_ and good luck getting any traction there...
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2022-11-10T17:22:40 < zyp> karlp, how so?
2022-11-10T17:22:52 < karlp> "Ftzselect"
2022-11-10T17:22:54 < karlp> one tick
2022-11-10T17:23:10 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cn9a8
2022-11-10T17:23:11 < drzacek> okay, so I dropped the spi via dma, dunno why it doesnt work and dont feel adventorous enough, also - I dont need it
2022-11-10T17:23:15 < karlp> it's not actually armbian,
2022-11-10T17:23:23 < karlp> it's "tzselect" which armbian runs at first boot,
2022-11-10T17:23:36 < karlp> dpkg-recofigure tzdata "works"
2022-11-10T17:24:04 < drzacek> went back to the regular spi transmit, and I think I got that ws2813 LED to work with it - but I have 250 byte long buffer filled with 0s to generate the "reset" signal for the LED. is there a way to force the spi MOSI line to low when idle?
2022-11-10T17:24:22 < karlp> the problem is related to certain tzdb entries being symlinks.
2022-11-10T17:24:24 < drzacek> then I could free up those empty bytes for something else
2022-11-10T17:24:38 < karlp> so Reykjavik and St Helena are symlinks to Africa/ABidjan...
2022-11-10T17:24:56 < karlp> so both show up in "Africa" even though they're in the "Atlantic" diectory
2022-11-10T17:25:17 < karlp> same reason jan mayen shows up in "europe" not "atlantic"
2022-11-10T17:27:05 < zyp> hmm https://paste.jvnv.net/view/IEtHl
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2022-11-10T17:28:38 < zyp> my tzdata has Iceland as a file, not a symlink
2022-11-10T17:29:23 < karlp> sure, it's a file on my laptop too, but it still doesn't appear in "atlantic" if you run tzselect
2022-11-10T17:29:34 < karlp> (running tzselect is safe, it just prints shit to stdout)
2022-11-10T17:29:35 < zyp> it does here
2022-11-10T17:29:44 < zyp> see previous paste
2022-11-10T17:29:59 < karlp> wat?
2022-11-10T17:30:06 < karlp> neither armbian nor my fedora do the right thing
2022-11-10T17:30:08  * karlp lols
2022-11-10T17:30:34 < zyp> maybe I'm running old tzdata, idk
2022-11-10T17:31:06 < karlp> I'm on tzdata 2022f-1
2022-11-10T17:31:26 < karlp> armbian is on 2022c-0ubuntu
2022-11-10T17:32:05 < zyp> 2020a-0+deb9u1
2022-11-10T17:32:32 < karlp> cute.  even my ubuntu 1804 VPS is running 2022f :)
2022-11-10T17:32:43 < karlp> interesting and interestinger though.
2022-11-10T17:32:52 < zyp> hmm, I've apparently forgotten to upgrade this box
2022-11-10T17:32:55 < karlp> ffs, how did I get int this fucking hole.
2022-11-10T17:33:24 < zyp> other box with 2021a-1 also got it right
2022-11-10T17:34:10 < zyp> also 2021a-1+deb11u5
2022-11-10T17:34:16 < jpa-> my ubuntu 2020.04 puts Iceland in Africa, right where it belongs
2022-11-10T17:34:19 < zyp> that's what seems to be in current debian
2022-11-10T17:35:06 < karlp> I think this is a sideaffect of 2022b and "backzone" where timezones since 1970 are dupes
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2022-11-10T17:35:14 < karlp> it's in https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tzdb/NEWS if you search for iceland.
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2022-11-10T17:36:21 < karlp> and there's also changes there about "jan mayen is in the wrong place"
2022-11-10T17:36:51 < zyp> I spun up a debian bookworm container, that one got Iceland in Africa
2022-11-10T17:37:23 < karlp> yeah, that where it is for all of my systems
2022-11-10T17:38:09 < karlp> tzdb is distributed as lzip?! wth is that
2022-11-10T17:39:02 < zyp> like gzip, just with lzma?
2022-11-10T17:39:31 < karlp> probably, just can't get anything on my ssytem to open it yet :|
2022-11-10T17:39:33 < karlp> meh
2022-11-10T17:39:40 < zyp> did you try lzip?
2022-11-10T17:39:51 < karlp> yah, just installing it now.
2022-11-10T17:40:00 < karlp> was kinda surprised nothing I had could work with it
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2022-11-10T18:23:59 < karlp> ok... so.
2022-11-10T18:24:10 < karlp> root of the problem is that fedora/ubuntu/armbian all use "tzselect" from glibc.
2022-11-10T18:24:22 < karlp> and glibc last synced that from the tzdb in 2018...
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2022-11-10T19:17:55 < karlp> yas! got my quacktel working from openwrt. only had it working on an old armbian build.
2022-11-10T19:18:02 < karlp> little fucking details.
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2022-11-10T21:02:03 < kaki> karlp: let's hear about the good parts of gnome
2022-11-10T21:03:00 < kaki> *crickets chirping*
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2022-11-10T21:18:14 < machinehum> Stocks are up today
2022-11-10T21:18:21 < machinehum> Recession off
2022-11-10T21:19:30 < kaki> doubt [x]
2022-11-10T21:20:28 < kaki> money printers go brrrr
2022-11-10T21:21:01 < machinehum> kaki: I don't care about inflation as long as the account balance is a big number
2022-11-10T21:22:00 < machinehum> Also I hold crypto, so I am sheltered from inflation, as per Pierre Poilievre
2022-11-10T21:23:38 < kaki> tell me how that works
2022-11-10T21:24:37 < machinehum> Well kaki you see when the recession hits and inflation is really bad, nobody will sell their precious bitcoins
2022-11-10T21:24:49 < machinehum> That means the price will stay high
2022-11-10T21:24:53 < machinehum> It's simple economics
2022-11-10T21:25:25 < kaki> hodl
2022-11-10T21:25:28 < machinehum> yes
2022-11-10T21:25:33 < machinehum> Now you're getting it
2022-11-10T21:29:28 < kaki> if money printers are going we are not at clear
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2022-11-10T21:32:38 < Laurence_b> https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA13Y95I.img?w=768&h=512&m=6
2022-11-10T21:32:41 < Laurence_b> wtf thats huge
2022-11-10T21:33:32 < machinehum> Laurence_b: What is that?
2022-11-10T21:33:41 < machinehum> Amazon drone
2022-11-10T21:34:19 < kaki> looks like cruise missile
2022-11-10T21:35:44 < kaki> with extra wings and 12 propellers
2022-11-10T21:35:57 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-11-10T21:35:58 < kaki> any larger pictures?
2022-11-10T21:36:03 < Laurence_b> havent seen any
2022-11-10T21:36:25 < machinehum> It looks like a mixture between a fixed wing and quadcopter
2022-11-10T21:36:30 < machinehum> Where quad = 12
2022-11-10T21:37:02 < Laurence_b> the previous one looked saner
2022-11-10T21:37:04 < machinehum> I wonder if it can take off and land like a heli, then get going real fast and go horizontal
2022-11-10T21:37:26 < Laurence_b> https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.2IMr3lRcAEAn9c6DRhA6PQHaFj?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
2022-11-10T21:37:46 < machinehum> That guy is a fixed wing?
2022-11-10T21:37:51 < machinehum> Obviously
2022-11-10T21:38:10 < kaki> but also a quad
2022-11-10T21:38:25 < kaki> quad contraprop
2022-11-10T21:38:37 < machinehum> Oh yeah
2022-11-10T21:38:43 < machinehum> Had to zoom in
2022-11-10T21:38:50 < kaki> one propulsion prop
2022-11-10T21:39:11 < machinehum> I wonder if it could turn by modulating the quat props
2022-11-10T21:39:14 < machinehum> Probably
2022-11-10T21:39:14 < Laurence_b> this latest thing looks so big it could crush your house
2022-11-10T21:39:32 < machinehum> Oh is has a rudder
2022-11-10T21:40:31 < machinehum> I wonder how long it will take for Amazon to wipe one of those out
2022-11-10T21:40:38 < kaki> on first picture thing is on runway, on special fixture and human operator is loading the parcel
2022-11-10T21:40:44 < kaki> all are downsides
2022-11-10T21:41:11 < machinehum> I don't think those wheels fly
2022-11-10T21:41:13 < machinehum> on the first
2022-11-10T21:41:32 < kaki> yeah
2022-11-10T21:41:37 < kaki> it's a fixture
2022-11-10T21:41:43 < machinehum> For holding it
2022-11-10T21:41:53 < kaki> and tilting it or something
2022-11-10T21:42:14 < kaki> it has a pivot point
2022-11-10T21:42:49 < machinehum> I don't see where the second one would keep the payload
2022-11-10T21:43:37 < kaki> middle tube?
2022-11-10T21:44:16 < machinehum> I guess
2022-11-10T21:44:28 < machinehum> One would think that's filled with battaries and other shit
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2022-11-10T21:47:12 < kaki> most of it likelly is
2022-11-10T21:49:10 < karlp> kaki: the gnoem disks stuff actually works really nicely, IMO. 
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2022-11-11T02:40:39 < Laurence_b> woah
2022-11-11T02:40:40 < Laurence_b> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42483.280
2022-11-11T02:40:44 < Laurence_b> musk btfo'd
2022-11-11T02:41:04 < Laurence_b> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhNmFjvUoAACarW?format=jpg&name=small
2022-11-11T02:41:08 < Laurence_b> insane skillz
2022-11-11T02:41:40 < Laurence_b> that could make a practical reusable stage 2
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2022-11-11T02:59:51 < machinehum> Is there a JST XH SMD version
2022-11-11T03:02:21 < machinehum> Yes there is
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2022-11-11T04:57:30 < begriffs> Is there a pre-made board I can use to attach a signal analyzer to USB traffic? This one is sold out https://www.tindie.com/products/Kaktus/usbuddy-usb-development-tool/
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2022-11-11T08:59:20 < jpa-> begriffs: you could probably solder these two together with a long pinheader: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/chip-quik-inc/CN0006/5978228 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/chip-quik-inc/CN0007/5978288
2022-11-11T09:00:35 < jpa-> though it is pretty easy to just mod a cable
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2022-11-11T16:28:08 < karlp> niche product of the day: XR22804
2022-11-11T16:31:28 < jpa-> looks pretty cool but not sure what i'd use it for :)
2022-11-11T16:35:47 < karlp> yeah, me either :)
2022-11-11T17:02:04 < catphish> i assume it's for an (old) usb hub with integrated ethernet https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-USB-3-0-Portable-Ethernet/dp/B00M7MYFAU
2022-11-11T17:05:02 < Steffanx-> Unlikely. Its not a real usb hub. It does ethernet, uart and i2c
2022-11-11T17:05:52 < BrainDamage> it seems to more more of a thing to integrate some sensor network over ethernet
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2022-11-11T17:12:10 < karlp> pos shits too, four uarts and i2c as well.
2022-11-11T17:12:25 < karlp> bar codes, scales, card terminals, all that shit.
2022-11-11T18:42:49 < jpa-> the 4 uarts seem quite nice though, with fractional dividers etc.
2022-11-11T18:50:56 < karlp> "8051 inside" presumably too :)
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2022-11-11T19:47:45 < zyp> karlp, piece of shit-shits? :)
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2022-11-11T21:37:56 < kaki> sync
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--- Day changed la marras 12 2022
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2022-11-12T02:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1591220920907190273
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2022-11-12T13:24:02 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR7HuqZXQ3I google open sourced tools for 180nm global foundries process
2022-11-12T13:25:07 < kaki> *130nm
2022-11-12T13:28:17 < kaki> https://developers.google.com/silicon
2022-11-12T13:42:13 < BrainDamage> took a look the calculation for parasitics etc use their own python api, not standard tools in the industry
2022-11-12T13:42:57 < BrainDamage> there's a big fat todo list
2022-11-12T13:43:12 < BrainDamage> it's useful for hackers, but still far off from engineers
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2022-11-12T21:19:19 < fluid> OK. I have reduced this code to only a few lines. I create a static buffer[30] = {0}; then call hal_spi_receive(spi, buffer, 30,2) in a while loop. The second time we reach hal_spi_receive, hard fault.
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2022-11-12T21:24:20 < qyx> which hal is that?
2022-11-12T21:24:59 < qyx> does the hal uses a DMA for SPI transfers?
2022-11-12T21:25:17 < qyx> is your allocated buffer DMA-able?
2022-11-12T21:25:32 < fluid> I'm blocking, no DMA.
2022-11-12T21:26:39 < jpa-> what instruction faults, what is SCB->CFSR value (unless you are on cortex-m0)
2022-11-12T21:26:40 < qyx> is there any particular reason it is static? do you handle reentrancy? just curious
2022-11-12T21:28:10 < fluid> The full program allocates a lot of RAM with a large buffer (> 90%) so I made numerous things static to make sure they don't reallocate more memory.
2022-11-12T21:28:14 < fluid> jpa-, Umm....
2022-11-12T21:28:51 < fluid> I don't know why I didn't think so step through the HAL routine
2022-11-12T21:29:10 < qyx> uhm, what
2022-11-12T21:29:29 < zyp> I don't think static means what you think it means
2022-11-12T21:30:42 < fluid> Uh oh.
2022-11-12T21:31:27 < fluid> The debugger shows the fault happens with the line after the comment "check if the SPI is already enabled"
2022-11-12T21:31:39 < fluid> specifically if ((hspi->Instance->CR1 & SPI_CR1_SPE) != SPI_CR1_SPE)
2022-11-12T21:31:53 < fluid> I'll go research what static means.
2022-11-12T21:32:15 < zyp> sounds like you might be passing an invalid hspi pointer or something
2022-11-12T21:32:39 < qyx> but if it works the first time..
2022-11-12T21:32:53 < fluid> It works and I see the clock pulses on my oscope
2022-11-12T21:32:54 < qyx> the handle might get corrupted though
2022-11-12T21:34:09 < jpa-> fluid: you can also   display /i $pc   and    stepi    to go instruction-by-instruction; and backtrace will tell where you crashed after you crashed, and printing  SCB->CFSR will tell you why you crashed
2022-11-12T21:35:22 < fluid> I'm not sure how to accomplish that in stm32cubeide
2022-11-12T21:35:56 < zyp> maybe stop usbing stm32cubeide then :)
2022-11-12T21:36:03 < fluid> :D
2022-11-12T21:37:12 < fluid> making the buffer non-static changes where it crashes....
2022-11-12T21:37:32 < jpa-> well, stepping instruction-by-instruction and printing register contents are so basic functions that any debugger should be able to do them
2022-11-12T21:37:41 < qyx> overlapping stack then
2022-11-12T21:41:45 < fluid> ok, I found SCB->CFSR
2022-11-12T21:42:50 < fluid> PRECISERR and BFARVALID both went high
2022-11-12T21:45:35 < fluid> bfar is 4000ffff so that doesn't help e
2022-11-12T21:45:36 < fluid> me
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2022-11-12T21:48:46 < fluid> That's with the static buffer. If I remove the static, the same bits in CFSR are set, but bfar = 0x20030000
2022-11-12T21:54:54 < fluid>  ldr     r2, [r3, #0]
2022-11-12T21:55:04 < fluid> is the instruction it crashes on
2022-11-12T21:55:13 < fluid> (this is neat! I've never delved this deeply before)
2022-11-12T21:57:46 < fluid> hspi->instance is 40003c00 the first time
2022-11-12T21:58:22 < fluid> and 4000ffff the second time it's called
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2022-11-12T22:03:12 < fluid> OK, so this does looks like I'm corrupting the SPI handle somewhere. Can anyone confirm that from the information I provided?
2022-11-12T22:10:36 < qyx> if your SPI handle is on the stack, you have a stack overflo
2022-11-12T22:11:21 < qyx> multiple things suggests that: making anything static frees some space on the stack and makes your code crash on a different place
2022-11-12T22:11:34 < qyx> also it works when called for the first time, then fails
2022-11-12T22:12:03 < qyx> and also that you are using 90% of your memory for some globals
2022-11-12T22:12:10 < fluid> That's all gone
2022-11-12T22:12:25 < fluid> There are two lines of code, the buffer init and the hal_spi_receive.
2022-11-12T22:12:52 < qyx> so step through your code and check when the handle is corrupted
2022-11-12T22:13:30 < fluid> It must be a bug in the HAL
2022-11-12T22:14:04 < qyx> no?
2022-11-12T22:14:19 < qyx> I mean, it can be, but don't assume so
2022-11-12T22:15:10 < fluid> I have only two lines of code.
2022-11-12T22:15:15 < qyx> I would not dare say some other's code is wrong until I prove mine is 150% right
2022-11-12T22:15:20 < fluid> There's nothing to step through.
2022-11-12T22:15:42 < fluid> first I call uint8_t buffer[30] = {0};
2022-11-12T22:15:51 < fluid> then the hal_spi_receive in a while loop
2022-11-12T22:15:52 < fluid> that's it
2022-11-12T22:15:53 < qyx> post your code
2022-11-12T22:17:22 < fluid> one sec
2022-11-12T22:20:00 < qyx> zyp: hjalp https://paste.jvnv.net/view/uM4es
2022-11-12T22:20:15 < qyx> failed to search the interwebs
2022-11-12T22:20:24 < qyx> /usr/local/bin/menuconfig: Kconfig:67: '/Kconfig' not found (in 'source "$(EXT_APP)/Kconfig"').
2022-11-12T22:20:42 < qyx> despite APP_EXTERNAL not being y
2022-11-12T22:21:14 < qyx> actually, it looks like it doesn't even try to solve decepndencies and ifs and it sources using some kind of preprocessor
2022-11-12T22:21:49 < zyp> what's that?
2022-11-12T22:22:16 < qyx> part of my Kconfig
2022-11-12T22:22:35 < qyx> I think the problem is generic
2022-11-12T22:22:36 < zyp> I've never really written one
2022-11-12T22:22:49 < qyx> wat, why did I remember you are a Kconfig pro
2022-11-12T22:22:53 < zyp> but yeah, looks like sourcing is processed before selection
2022-11-12T22:24:01 < fluid> Here's the main.c: https://pastecode.io/s/ze4h5ok0
2022-11-12T22:25:29 < qyx>   hspi3.Init.DataSize = SPI_DATASIZE_16BIT;
2022-11-12T22:27:13 < zyp> so 30x2B into a 30B buffer? :)
2022-11-12T22:27:29 < fluid> :/
2022-11-12T22:27:34 < qyx> I would say your 2-line code is wrong
2022-11-12T22:27:38 < fluid> Maybe it squeezes really good
2022-11-12T22:27:39 < qyx> https://github.com/ARMmbed/mbed-hal-st-stm32cubef4/blob/master/source/stm32f4xx_hal_spi.c#L563
2022-11-12T22:27:58 < qyx> (idk if it is the correct .c source, never used that hal)
2022-11-12T22:28:03 < zyp> looks like it'd overflow and trash whatever comes after it
2022-11-12T22:28:43 < fluid> ok. That explains it. Thank you very much.
2022-11-12T22:29:01 < fluid> I wonder how many bugs I've been chasing down because of that...
2022-11-12T22:32:37 < fluid> Thank you thank you thank you
2022-11-12T22:34:38 < qyx> does it work now?
2022-11-12T22:37:14 < fluid> the jury is still out on that. :)
2022-11-12T22:40:56 < fluid> Sometimes I get so involved focusing on one problem that I start becoming blind to everything else.
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2022-11-12T22:41:13 < drzacek> hello there
2022-11-12T22:41:19 < fluid> I wasn't getting any traces on my scope when running my program, then I finally discovered it was because I had unplugged the scope probes
2022-11-12T22:41:51 < drzacek> so some time ago (few weeks) I asked about driving the WS281x LEDs with stm32, and someone told me to do it with SPI - sorry, forgot who it was (am on different machine so no history either)
2022-11-12T22:42:52 < fluid> qyx, yes, it appears to be working now. Thank you again.
2022-11-12T22:42:53 < qyx> me?
2022-11-12T22:42:56 < qyx> drzacek: ^
2022-11-12T22:43:10 < qyx> iirc I even sent you a working code, although a bit messy
2022-11-12T22:43:32 < drzacek> qyx, yes, yes you did - but I didn't had access to it, cause it was on different PC
2022-11-12T22:43:48 < qyx> le tme check
2022-11-12T22:44:02 < drzacek> I vaguely remembered the general idea and tried to recreate it, with the help of datasheet (ws2813)
2022-11-12T22:44:11 < drzacek> well just wanted to say thank you, cause I got it working!
2022-11-12T22:44:23 < qyx> oh, great
2022-11-12T22:44:53 < drzacek> few dudes in google tried doing that too, and each of them used a bit different timing
2022-11-12T22:45:01 < zyp> which stm32 do you have?
2022-11-12T22:45:27 < drzacek> I struggled with it for a week, then I found out that those LEDs are bit tricky - some might light up a bit, and bork the whole chain
2022-11-12T22:45:39 < drzacek> had to replace or resolder few of them and now it's ok
2022-11-12T22:45:43 < drzacek> zyp, g030
2022-11-12T22:45:44 < zyp> if you've got one with DMA2D, try using that to convert the pixel values to SPI bitbang :)
2022-11-12T22:45:54 < zyp> well, that one doesn't :p
2022-11-12T22:46:28 < drzacek> it doesnt have much in it
2022-11-12T22:46:34 < zyp> indeed
2022-11-12T22:47:21 < drzacek> on the other hand - it was cheap, there's plenty of it available, it runs @64mhz which is quite fast, and I'm not using more than 1/3 of ram, so it still has potential
2022-11-12T22:48:11 < zyp> the thing is that when driving ws28xx LEDs with spi, you can encode each bit as a nibble, and DMA2D has a CLUT feature that you can use to convert 8-bit values to 32-bit values (i.e. 8 nibbles), hence letting hardware do all the conversion from plain RGB values
2022-11-12T22:48:27 < zyp> … in theory :9
2022-11-12T22:48:34 < zyp> I haven't tried it in practice yet
2022-11-12T22:49:05 < qyx> hm I am not sure if nibble is enough for it
2022-11-12T22:49:12 < qyx> I am using 8 bits
2022-11-12T22:51:48 < zyp> isn't it 1.2ms period, 0.3ms high for 0 and 0.6ms high for 1?
2022-11-12T22:52:08 < zyp> so MSB first that's 0x1 for 0 and 0x3 for 1
2022-11-12T22:52:12 < drzacek> zyp, apparently it has pretty wide tolerances
2022-11-12T22:52:14 < zyp> LSB first*
2022-11-12T22:52:19 < zyp> indeed
2022-11-12T22:52:26 < drzacek> LSB?
2022-11-12T22:53:00 < qyx> hm
2022-11-12T22:53:04 < zyp> I didn't check the datasheet, I went and looked up the last implementation I did: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/serial_led.py#L5
2022-11-12T22:53:21 < zyp> also, s/ms/us/
2022-11-12T22:53:56 < drzacek> 0xf8 for "1" and 0xc0 for "0" in my case
2022-11-12T22:54:06 < zyp> a quarter bit is 0.3us, first quarter bit is always high, next quarter bit is the actual data, and the last half bit is always low
2022-11-12T22:54:12 < qyx> https://gitlab.com/iqyx/vy-pi-nac/-/blob/master/fw/main.c#L260
2022-11-12T22:54:33 < qyx> idk why I used such timing
2022-11-12T22:54:37 < drzacek> qyx, how did you solved the "Resets"
2022-11-12T22:55:02  * drzacek was setting the bits at random, 1 high 7 low, 2 high 6 low, 3/5, etc, until it all kinda worked
2022-11-12T22:55:11 < qyx> drzacek: https://gitlab.com/iqyx/vy-pi-nac/-/blob/master/fw/main.c#L253
2022-11-12T22:55:50 < drzacek> it wasn't working properly without long 0 signal (like, const low) before and after sequence
2022-11-12T22:55:54 < zyp> got another implementation here: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?h=conf#n64
2022-11-12T22:56:02 < zyp> that one is dma+timer
2022-11-12T22:56:07 < drzacek> I kinda brute forced it with 250 bytes of 0 data in spi
2022-11-12T22:56:13 < qyx> yeah
2022-11-12T22:56:34 < drzacek> oh you do 100 in for
2022-11-12T22:56:54 < drzacek> you guys probly use some low level/more direct approach at using spi peripheral
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2022-11-12T22:57:32 < drzacek> I used HAL functions, cause am dumb and refuse to learn. anyways, I put it all in one long buffer to hold start reset, all 11 leds and end reset
2022-11-12T22:57:45 < drzacek> and send it all in one go
2022-11-12T22:58:00 < zyp> with the timer, I just end the DMA buffer with a single 0 to set duty to 0
2022-11-12T22:58:12 < zyp> and just ensure enough time passes before I start another DMA job
2022-11-12T22:58:31 < drzacek> https://github.com/drzacek/Pixel-Star/blob/master/firmware/Core/Src/leds.c plz dont laugh
2022-11-12T22:59:13 < zyp> you could do lines 86..93 as another loop :)
2022-11-12T22:59:21 < drzacek> HAL fw for this stm32g030 sucks and has lots of bugs, and at some point I stopped trying to get the SPI via DMA to work and just do regular transmits
2022-11-12T22:59:41 < drzacek> zyp, I was inspired by qyx 
2022-11-12T22:59:54 < zyp> for(int j = 0; j < 8; j++) { grbData[j + (led_position * 24) + (i*8)] = ws2813_bit(grb[i] & (1 << j)); }
2022-11-12T22:59:57 < drzacek> https://gitlab.com/iqyx/vy-pi-nac/-/blob/master/fw/main.c#L271
2022-11-12T23:00:21 < zyp> haha
2022-11-12T23:00:32 < drzacek> also I think it's more readable this way too
2022-11-12T23:01:56 < drzacek> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGwG598rLek here's the hw at work. I don't have any fancy animations yet, but already got few ideas
2022-11-12T23:02:14 < zyp> I'm pretty happy about this approach, although it feels a little bit overkill to do a five module pipeline for it: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/serial_led.py :)
2022-11-12T23:02:39 < drzacek> look pythony 
2022-11-12T23:03:12 < zyp> it's migen/litex
2022-11-12T23:03:27 < zyp> so effectively it's HDL, goes on a FPGA
2022-11-12T23:03:32 < qyx> no snek
2022-11-12T23:04:14 < drzacek> ah
2022-11-12T23:04:18 < drzacek> talk about overkill
2022-11-12T23:04:25 < zyp> :)
2022-11-12T23:04:40 < zyp> oh, that reminds me, I still have one more implementation
2022-11-12T23:05:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Y6nTa.png
2022-11-12T23:05:20 < zyp> here's one for greenpak
2022-11-12T23:06:00 < drzacek> my only experience with FPGA was AB encoder reading and driving some LEDs. cool stuff, pricy af
2022-11-12T23:06:37 < zyp> lowend fpgas are reasonably cheap
2022-11-12T23:07:09 < drzacek> cast reasonably cheap to float
2022-11-12T23:10:08 < zyp> cheapest that comes to mind is probably some of the gowin stuff, quick search on aliexpress suggests it starts around here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002917631930.html
2022-11-12T23:10:45 < drzacek> okay, not bad
2022-11-12T23:11:11 < drzacek> am not gonna compare it to cheap mcu cause I kinda expect fpgas to do some harder work
2022-11-12T23:11:39 < zyp> haven't tried any of the gowin stuff myself, so that's not a recommandation, it just seems to be gaining some popularity recently
2022-11-12T23:12:00 < zyp> otherwise there's ice40 and ecp5 stuff
2022-11-12T23:12:01 < drzacek> back in the day they wanted me to get some xilinx devboard. it was around 100 euro, or something similar, lots of money for poor student. so I dropped it 
2022-11-12T23:12:17 < zyp> I'm partial to the latter, since that starts to get reasonably capable
2022-11-12T23:12:28 < drzacek> how does it looks like with languages etc? do they all talk same vhdl, or does it vary a lot between brands?
2022-11-12T23:13:33 < zyp> languages are the same, but building blocks differ
2022-11-12T23:13:50 < zyp> and then you get libraries that abstracts over that
2022-11-12T23:14:57 < drzacek> no, no no no no, I wont touch it
2022-11-12T23:15:18 < drzacek> I cant start learning some new thing. I need to focus. little free time. am gonna stick to stm32 for now
2022-11-12T23:17:40 < zyp> here's the thing I'm doing: https://store.zyp.no/product/orbtrace-mini
2022-11-12T23:18:00 < zyp> the five indicator leds on that are sk6805, same protocol as the ws28xx
2022-11-12T23:18:32 < drzacek> so a debugger for arm?
2022-11-12T23:18:42 < zyp> debugger and trace collector
2022-11-12T23:19:05 < drzacek> doesnt regular jtag offer that?
2022-11-12T23:19:47 < zyp> no
2022-11-12T23:20:26 < zyp> I mean, if you're using swd, you've got serial trace through swo
2022-11-12T23:20:43 < drzacek> yeah wanted to ask about swo too
2022-11-12T23:20:49 < drzacek> havent used it yet tho
2022-11-12T23:20:50 < zyp> but that's fairly slow
2022-11-12T23:21:02 < zyp> again depending on what adapter you've got
2022-11-12T23:21:23 < zyp> orbtrace can do 48 Mb/s swo or so
2022-11-12T23:22:08 < zyp> parallel trace uses more signals and runs faster
2022-11-12T23:23:21 < drzacek> I have cheapest stlink clone
2022-11-12T23:23:44 < drzacek> it has NO swo
2022-11-12T23:24:17 < zyp> not sure where parallel trace tops out, orbtrace can probably do something like 1Gb/s at the trace stream, but actual throughput will be bottlenecked by the USB connection
2022-11-12T23:25:01 < zyp> at some point I'll make a USB3 version :)
2022-11-12T23:25:19 < drzacek> what if you put 4gb ram or something, like logic analyzers do
2022-11-12T23:26:16 < zyp> orbtrace mini got 8MB, which might be enough depending on what you wanna do
2022-11-12T23:27:09 < zyp> could e.g. put a ringbuffer in there so it just keeps the last few megabytes of the trace stream
2022-11-12T23:27:37 < zyp> should be useful enough if you're trapping a crash and you want a trace of the last stuff the CPU did before the crash
2022-11-12T23:34:14 < drzacek> gotta go. thanks for help - am really happy that my project works
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--- Day changed su marras 13 2022
2022-11-13T00:13:58 < qyx> scons rebuilds me everything everytime I change my Kconfig
2022-11-13T00:20:44 < zyp> ok
2022-11-13T00:23:31 < qyx> thats quite unfortunate and expected as Kconfig recreates config.h every time
2022-11-13T00:23:42 < qyx> and scons doesn't know which files depends on which config option
2022-11-13T00:26:39 < zyp> you'd have that problem regardless of build system as long as you stick all the config into one single file
2022-11-13T00:27:37 < qyx> but what would be the correct approach
2022-11-13T00:27:53 < qyx> besides putting every single option in an individual file
2022-11-13T00:28:19 < zyp> what's the purpose of the Kconfig stuff?
2022-11-13T00:30:01 < qyx> the same as kconfig in esp-idf
2022-11-13T00:30:07 < zyp> never used that
2022-11-13T00:30:32 < qyx> hm, to configure the scheduler, application and multiple services
2022-11-13T00:30:34 < qyx> of a framework
2022-11-13T00:31:12 < qyx> the same as kconfig in the lunex kernel
2022-11-13T00:31:52 < zyp> what does the kernel do if you change a config option? does it rebuild everything? if not, why not?
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2022-11-13T00:32:37 < qyx> that's a very interesting question, it does not
2022-11-13T00:33:01 < qyx> ok, mostly
2022-11-13T00:33:02 < zyp> I then assume it doesn't stick everything into one config.h that's included all over the place
2022-11-13T00:33:34 < zyp> can you have it distribute the options across multiple .h files?
2022-11-13T00:34:08 < mawk> kernel doesn't rebuild if you just change an option
2022-11-13T00:34:10 < qyx> I would have to check the python kconfig stuff
2022-11-13T00:34:19 < zyp> if possible, split apart unrelated stuff, and only include each file where it's really needed
2022-11-13T00:36:11 < qyx> /opt/gcc-arm-none-eabi-10-2020-q4-major/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/10.2.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld:--defsym:0: syntax error
2022-11-13T00:36:14 < qyx> haha ok
2022-11-13T00:37:04 < zyp> otherwise you could make filtered copies of config.h
2022-11-13T00:37:34 < zyp> grep ENABLE_BLAH_ config.h > config_blah.h
2022-11-13T00:37:44 < zyp> and include config_blah.h in your shit
2022-11-13T00:38:19 < qyx> I may simply inseminate partial config.h into every single subdirectory
2022-11-13T00:38:28 < qyx> and keep #include "config.h"
2022-11-13T00:38:31 < zyp> scons would then hash the file and skip the rebuild if it comes out identical
2022-11-13T00:38:47 < zyp> sure
2022-11-13T00:38:59 < qyx> by grepping sources/headers in the subdir for CONFIG_*
2022-11-13T00:39:02 < zyp> watch out for include guards then
2022-11-13T00:39:03 < qyx> and including those in the partial config.h
2022-11-13T00:39:17 < qyx> yeah #pragma once as  we are in 2022 already
2022-11-13T00:39:25 < zyp> indeed
2022-11-13T00:39:52 < qyx> k not going to innovate it right now
2022-11-13T00:40:18 < zyp> the hashing part of scons is pretty clever
2022-11-13T00:41:54 < zyp> a lot more reliable than just file timestamps
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2022-11-13T00:43:14 < qyx> am I able to force scons to print all executed commands?
2022-11-13T00:43:26 < qyx> I cannot see a way yet
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2022-11-13T00:43:34 < Laurence_b> keeekkk FTX
2022-11-13T00:43:37 < Laurence_b> >Bankman
2022-11-13T00:43:55 < Laurence_b> >literally escaped to south america in his private jet with all the loot
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2022-11-13T00:58:23 < qyx> two hours later, compuled without errors
2022-11-13T00:58:37 < qyx> I have 2 minutes to test it
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2022-11-13T02:04:19 < qyx> succeeded 66 minutes later.
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2022-11-13T02:35:36 < Laurence_b> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhKfoHHXwAEpI_3?format=jpg&name=small
2022-11-13T02:35:44 < Laurence_b> we dont need no stinking cleanroom
2022-11-13T02:36:25 < Laurence_b> stack at left is starlink sats
2022-11-13T02:39:10 < englishman> cool
2022-11-13T02:39:32 < specing> why bother cleanrooming them when they're going to fall back into earth again
2022-11-13T02:40:06 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-11-13T02:40:36 < Laurence_b> based nasaspaceflight users
2022-11-13T02:40:38 < Laurence_b> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48855.680
2022-11-13T02:40:48 < Laurence_b> qanon lunatic getting btfo'd
2022-11-13T02:42:35 < Laurence_b> ffs seeshells defence squad turns up lower down the page, epic fail
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2022-11-13T03:03:16 < Laurence_b> keeek orbital sides https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50041.320
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2022-11-13T03:07:56 < englishman> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/TRxm3awC/image.png
2022-11-13T03:08:01 < englishman> wow laurence, good click
2022-11-13T03:08:10 < englishman> oh it gets better too
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2022-11-13T06:57:37 < jadew> google translate just invented a word...
2022-11-13T06:58:27 < jadew> I didn't know what a word means so I gave it a try and it spat out a word that sounds romanian, but it's not in any of our dictionaries
2022-11-13T06:58:48 < jadew> (sounds a lot like the english one too)
2022-11-13T07:41:32 < aandrew> hahaha
2022-11-13T07:41:42 < aandrew> my wife and her friends speak "ronglish"
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2022-11-13T16:18:35 < jadew> woodworking has evolved a lot in the past couple of years: https://youtu.be/smnZD2ErzOY?t=537
2022-11-13T16:19:13 < jadew> simultaneous on-premise and remote wood working
2022-11-13T16:23:31 < jadew> aandrew, I know the sound of that, but I can't reproduce it right now
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2022-11-13T16:31:47 < Laurence_b> crazy lan system is running
2022-11-13T16:32:06 < Laurence_b> we opted for rpi with dual ethernet via usb adaptors
2022-11-13T16:32:39 < jadew> there's a rpi in your hyperloop?
2022-11-13T16:32:39 < Laurence_b> then 10/100 ethernet down the dual twisted pair cable, using PoE to power the nodes, and lunix bridges at each node
2022-11-13T16:32:49 < Laurence_b> no this is some test hardware
2022-11-13T16:32:59 < jadew> ah, ok
2022-11-13T16:33:00 < Laurence_b> but yeah there is CM4 in the vehicle
2022-11-13T16:33:48 < Laurence_b> lunix with watchdog and a monitor script to fire usb-reset seems reliable
2022-11-13T16:35:52 < Laurence_b> problem with can/rs485 was that any cable damage could take down the whole network
2022-11-13T16:36:46 < Laurence_b> we have installed toshiba e-fuse ICs at each node to protect the PoE from cable shorts
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2022-11-13T18:11:14 < aandrew> jadew> woodworking has evolved a lot in the past couple of years: https://youtu.be/smnZD2ErzOY?t=537
2022-11-13T18:11:17 < aandrew> HAHAHA
2022-11-13T18:12:24 < aandrew> this is like the woodworking equivalent of the chinese girl with enormous fake tits and tight sort cothes
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2022-11-13T19:00:00 < catphish> she seems competent if a little odd
2022-11-13T19:11:38 < aandrew> it's like onlyfans for women who feel that showing off their assets only is a little too whorish for their tastes
2022-11-13T19:12:01 < aandrew> they want the attention/followers but not the label
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2022-11-13T19:12:41 < jpa-> or she just likes to make entertainment that people like to watch
2022-11-13T19:12:58 < catphish> you could equally argue that it's just a person doing woodwork and to look at her in any other way is sexist and unnecessary
2022-11-13T19:13:28 < aandrew> nonsense
2022-11-13T19:13:39 < aandrew> stop making excuses for the "lookit me, lookit me" aspect of it
2022-11-13T19:13:39 < jpa-> though arguing that from a 3rd person standpoint would be quite prudish :)
2022-11-13T19:14:04 < aandrew> there are dozens of woodworkers who do it for the love of the craft and don't try to use their sexuality to sell it
2022-11-13T19:14:42 < jpa-> and a lot of people who don't find interest in watching "just" woodworking
2022-11-13T19:14:53 < aandrew> I have nothing against it at all, but let's not pretend it's not for attention
2022-11-13T19:15:06 < jpa-> why not just for money?
2022-11-13T19:15:07 < kaki> have you been watching videos of shirtless muscular guys splitting logs or what is happening here
2022-11-13T19:15:10 < aandrew> although I also think she's got a really good argument for workshop safety... there is nothing dangling on that body
2022-11-13T19:15:32 < catphish> her workshop seemed remarkably clean
2022-11-13T19:15:53 < jpa-> there are plenty of woodworking shows that have unnecessary jokes and humor though, is that also for attention or for entertainment?
2022-11-13T19:16:23 < aandrew> jpa-: both, totally
2022-11-13T19:29:14 < catphish> it's disapointing that i don't seem to be able to buy a GD32VF103
2022-11-13T19:32:13 < catphish> i wonder if anyone's selling an open source CPU yet
2022-11-13T19:33:32 < specing> catphish: leon?
2022-11-13T19:34:31 < srk> or lion :D
2022-11-13T19:34:50 < srk> soft CPUs
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2022-11-13T19:45:32 < kaki> ##woodwork32
2022-11-13T19:45:47 < BrainDamage> catphish: make one out of wood
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2022-11-13T19:49:40 < catphish_> BrainDamage: maybe i will
2022-11-13T19:49:57 < catphish_> i might have a play with some FPGA RISC-V
2022-11-13T19:51:53 < BrainDamage> the problem with riscv is the lack of peripherials
2022-11-13T19:52:04 < BrainDamage> so you'll need plenty of extra ip cores for spi, etc
2022-11-13T20:13:51 < ventYl> lolrence not here
2022-11-13T20:13:58 < ventYl> I have accidentally found a solution for him
2022-11-13T20:14:06 < ventYl> which is creepy enough so he should like it
2022-11-13T20:16:56 < catphish_> BrainDamage: i don't understand, surely ARM cored don't have peripherals either?
2022-11-13T20:17:02 < catphish_> *cores
2022-11-13T20:17:40 < BrainDamage> you said you wanted a mcu, a fpga core is far away from a usable mcu
2022-11-13T20:18:05 < BrainDamage> and yes, the problem would remain with a arm core
2022-11-13T20:18:22 < catphish_> sure, you said "the problem with riscv", hence my confustion
2022-11-13T20:18:32 < BrainDamage> ah, that was a general remark
2022-11-13T20:18:49 < catphish_> obviously if designing a MCU from scratch you need cores for periperals as well as a CPU core, yes
2022-11-13T20:18:57 < BrainDamage> there's no standard periph for riscv, so it's not so much the touted revolution it was supposed to be
2022-11-13T20:19:15 < BrainDamage> since everyone is still making ton of incompatible peripherials
2022-11-13T20:19:22 < catphish_> does that differ from other architectures?
2022-11-13T20:19:40 < BrainDamage> compared to x86: yes
2022-11-13T20:19:57 < BrainDamage> there's standard peripherials, such as northbridge, etc
2022-11-13T20:20:02 < catphish_> well x86 is quite special because it's standardized around the IBM PC
2022-11-13T20:20:16 < BrainDamage> that's what it was touted against
2022-11-13T20:20:30 < catphish_> ARM on the other hand, every system is a snowflake, and i assume this is true of most other archs
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2022-11-13T21:13:57 < drzacek> hello there
2022-11-13T21:14:00 < drzacek> someone said wood?
2022-11-13T21:14:52 < Steffanx-> Morning.
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2022-11-13T22:56:58 < Laurence_b> designated squishing streets
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2022-11-13T23:42:20 < Steffanx-> ventYl better share your wonderful idea, HES BAACK
--- Day changed ma marras 14 2022
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2022-11-14T01:08:57 < Laurence_b> I'm baaaack
2022-11-14T01:08:59 < Laurence_b> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56590.msg2427137#msg2427137
2022-11-14T01:09:06 < Laurence_b> Musk is evacuating his tube
2022-11-14T01:12:41 < specing> wat
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2022-11-14T01:18:15 < Laurence_b> no homo
2022-11-14T01:46:26 < Laurence_b> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIe433dGsGQ
2022-11-14T01:46:30 < Laurence_b> dis guy is good
2022-11-14T01:47:02 < Laurence_b> how did I not know about train guy before now
2022-11-14T01:48:16 < Laurence_b> kek the comments
2022-11-14T01:48:28 < Laurence_b> >There are guys who are like this irl. >yeah most of the government
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2022-11-14T04:44:37 < aandrew> what is this train guy
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2022-11-14T05:48:09 < rustyaxe> train? Your mum knows all about those.
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2022-11-14T11:49:27 < Ad0> hello! what is the procedure for changing baud rate for UART using the LL API on the fly? Is it enough to reinitialize it with LL_USART_InitTypeDef ?  
2022-11-14T11:49:53 < Ad0> on the fly meaning changing it at a later point in runtime
2022-11-14T11:50:22 < mawk> probably yeah
2022-11-14T11:50:30 < mawk> you can just take a look at the LL source code and see what it does
2022-11-14T11:50:41 < mawk> and you can read the list of functions and their documentation in the .c files
2022-11-14T11:50:51 < Ad0> or if there's a dedicated call just for the baud, that would be  the best hehe
2022-11-14T11:51:48 < Ad0> I am not sure if it explains if I can just modify the baud and nothing else ?
2022-11-14T11:52:27 < Ad0> LL_USART_SetBaudRate
2022-11-14T11:52:56 < Ad0> no way it can be that easy! :D 
2022-11-14T11:57:49 < Ad0> hm I need to change parity as well
2022-11-14T12:04:09 < Ad0> you have  LL_USART_SetParity as well but the question is whether you need to disable the uart and enable it again after setting this etc
2022-11-14T12:04:31 < Ad0> it does it in the generated code of course but it says nothing about after it's initialized
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2022-11-14T15:03:32 < mawk> Ad0: you can read the reference manual for that
2022-11-14T15:03:34 < mawk> or just try it
2022-11-14T15:03:45 < mawk> I don't think it needs to be reset, otherwise it would do it in the SetBaudRate call
2022-11-14T15:04:51 < fenugrec> depends if you expect data to come in while you're changing settings, which would set framing and parity errors
2022-11-14T15:05:07 < fenugrec> I would disable + enable RX, myself
2022-11-14T15:12:39 < Ad0> hm ok , thanks. well I changed parity but I still receive data fine so it might not work 
2022-11-14T15:13:04 < Ad0> where is the reference manual btw? do you mean the code documentation ? https://www.disca.upv.es/aperles/arm_cortex_m3/llibre/st/STM32F439xx_User_Manual/group__usart__ll__ef__configuration.html#gaece01dcf02197f545ebff6718b2dd5e7  ? 
2022-11-14T15:15:33 < Ad0> Tijen Majerle knows his stuff right "As CliveOne pointed out, you need to write new value to BRR register of USART peripherals. We do not know which drivers (libraries) you use but in case of LL, there is a function called LL_USART_SetBaudrate which does it for you. Do not forget to disable USART first."
2022-11-14T15:16:46 < fenugrec> > where is the reference manual
2022-11-14T15:16:49 < fenugrec> on st.com ?
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2022-11-14T15:20:49 < Ad0> no LL functions are mentioned in the reference manual for my MCU
2022-11-14T15:20:58 < fenugrec> RM != LL doc
2022-11-14T15:21:10 < Ad0> I don't know what to even search for 
2022-11-14T15:21:28 < Ad0> what is it called "low level api manual"?
2022-11-14T15:22:34 < Ad0> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/um2319-description-of-stm32g0-hal-and-lowlayer-drivers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2022-11-14T15:27:54 < Ad0> doesn't really mention anything what you have to do to make it go into effect , just like the code reference ,so not much help there
2022-11-14T15:28:17 < Ad0> not too keen on sifting through 2000+ pages to potentially not get any wiser :P
2022-11-14T15:30:01 < jpa-> why do you use HAL?
2022-11-14T15:31:37 < mawk> Ad0: I told you where the docs are
2022-11-14T15:31:39 < mawk> in the .c code
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2022-11-14T15:33:53 < Ad0> hehe I looked there first of course
2022-11-14T15:35:33 < Ad0> no mention on what you have to do , yet Majerle says that you have to disable UART before you do it ...
2022-11-14T15:35:46 < Ad0> so it can't be trusted alone
2022-11-14T15:42:15 < jpa-> you can look at the reference manual to see what has to be done, and then check the .c code to see what HAL function might do it
2022-11-14T15:42:23 < jpa-> or you could just do it yourself
2022-11-14T15:46:20 < Ad0> I can look at the HAL function maybe
2022-11-14T15:46:26 < Ad0> unless it's the same story there
2022-11-14T15:51:00 < fenugrec> "sifting through 2000+ pages" ... you know they're sorted into chapters, right ? 
2022-11-14T15:51:14 < fenugrec> go to UART chapter. Look at BRR register
2022-11-14T15:51:26 < fenugrec> First line : "This register can only be written when the USART is disabled (UE=0)."
2022-11-14T15:51:51 < fenugrec> using LL / HAL doesn't mean you can get away without ever opening the ref manual
2022-11-14T15:52:03 < Sadale> Sometimes you really have to read the manual. Sometimes you don't tho
2022-11-14T15:53:00 < Sadale> And if you're using LL chances are that you'd be better off reading the RM because LL is just a very thin mapping to the actual hardware, which works in a way described in the RM.
2022-11-14T15:57:42 < Ad0> fenugrec, think we are looking in different documents
2022-11-14T15:57:55 < Ad0> searched for that sentence, found nothing
2022-11-14T15:58:16 < fenugrec> like I said, ref manual is not the LL docs
2022-11-14T15:59:24 < Ad0> I think we would have saved a lot of time if you just straight up told me what document you are reading and the link to it :P
2022-11-14T16:01:09 < Ad0> you mean the reference manual for the chip family / series?
2022-11-14T16:02:12 < Ad0> thanks fenugrec 
2022-11-14T16:02:25 < Ad0> I found it, okay now I know where to look. 
2022-11-14T16:02:44 < fenugrec> sorry, not going to google a ref man for you, don't even know what IC you're using.
2022-11-14T16:02:51 < Ad0> that's fine
2022-11-14T16:03:37 < Ad0> so the idea here was to see what LL was doing, then read about the registers in the RM
2022-11-14T16:03:46 < fenugrec> yes
2022-11-14T16:04:47 < Ad0> aye, I missed the RM != LL bit
2022-11-14T16:07:24 < Ad0> I need to disable UART when modifying USART_CR1 too
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--- Log closed ma marras 14 18:39:49 2022
--- Log opened ma marras 14 18:40:00 2022
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2022-11-14T19:20:07 < machinehum> What's the shorter 18650?
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2022-11-14T19:25:15 < karlp> the 650 is the length, so ... whatever you can find for the price you like in the MOQ youlike?
2022-11-14T19:25:49 < karlp> https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18350-18500-formaat.html are offered for instance?
2022-11-14T19:26:27 < karlp> but also slimmer overall: https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/14500-16340.html
2022-11-14T19:28:44 < machinehum> 18350 is the one I believe
2022-11-14T19:29:11 < machinehum> 18650 is a super popular one, I'm looking for the one that's also super popular half the size
2022-11-14T19:29:16 < machinehum> Your link had it, thanks
2022-11-14T19:36:35 < fenugrec> 2/3A probly
2022-11-14T19:58:41 < benishor> does anybody by any chance have schematics for scx3200/scx3205 samsung printer?
2022-11-14T20:06:28 < ventYl> try searching for repair manual. i have found out, that my audio receiver has complete PCB layout (and IIRC also schematics) published in its repair manual
2022-11-14T20:08:27 < benishor> I found the service manual, but no schematics
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--- Day changed ti marras 15 2022
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2022-11-15T00:07:52 < kaki> machinehum: how is meta drama progressing?
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2022-11-15T00:58:59  * Laurence_b is going to sue the police for all the money they stopped me from robbing
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2022-11-15T01:12:30 < machinehum> kaki: Nothing really
2022-11-15T01:12:46 < machinehum> Nobody knows why certain people were selected
2022-11-15T01:12:55 < machinehum> Which is interesting
2022-11-15T01:13:18 < machinehum> New development on me, I'm sick
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2022-11-15T01:19:15 < Laurence_b> >The NTP multicast address 224.0.1.1 assigned by the IANA should NOT be used, unless specific means are taken to avoid spraying large areas of the Internet with these messages
2022-11-15T01:19:21 < Laurence_b> *evil laughter*
2022-11-15T01:22:45 < catphish_> facebook ads seem to just be a cesspool of spam now. [nsfw] https://i.imgur.com/6sv7C1Z.png
2022-11-15T01:23:48 < catphish_> lol
2022-11-15T01:26:30 < Laurence_b> do want
2022-11-15T01:26:37 < Laurence_b> but... imagine the smell
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2022-11-15T01:34:25 < kaki> catphish: e90 m52 wyt?
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2022-11-15T02:38:02 < catphish_> kaki: what?
2022-11-15T02:38:21 < kaki> bmw
2022-11-15T02:39:35 < kaki> pinnacle of their N.A. inline sixes
2022-11-15T03:15:18 < catphish_> i'm sure i'm getting dumber. a couple of years ago i implemented an fpga ddr3 controller, but now i feel like doing it again i'm struggling way more to get my head around it
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2022-11-15T04:54:05 < machinehum> Has anyone used openvpn?
2022-11-15T04:58:35 < catphish_> probably
2022-11-15T04:59:21 < machinehum> anyone here
2022-11-15T04:59:24 < machinehum> lol
2022-11-15T05:00:32 < catphish_> you might want to try #openvpn and #networking
2022-11-15T05:00:42 < machinehum> Yeah good call
2022-11-15T05:00:44 < catphish_> lol
2022-11-15T05:11:39 < englishman> sure openvpn is great
2022-11-15T05:11:54 < englishman> i assume there are no followup questions
2022-11-15T05:32:41 < rustyaxe> openvpn or wireguard, both are great. wg a bit quicker to setup once you get the feel for it. seems a bit faster too, but less device support, fwiw.
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2022-11-15T09:00:10 < Xogium> wireguard is awesome
2022-11-15T09:00:30 < Xogium> I even found a port for mbed, or stm32 not sure which
2022-11-15T09:00:43 < Xogium> I don't remember clearly, but yeah there's definitely a port for mcu
2022-11-15T09:01:54 < Xogium> and yeah you're right its a lot faster than openvpn, because it doesn't rely on being an userspace app (at least not in linux), and it uses as many threads as your cpu has to get a speed boost
2022-11-15T09:01:58 < Xogium> openvpn is single thread
2022-11-15T09:03:08 < Xogium> try openvpn on a rpi 3 for instance, you'll only get about 20 ~30 mbit/s ethernet speed, if that. Wireguard will give you a good 85 ~90 mbit/s
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2022-11-15T11:01:06 < Ad0> there's a lot of push on "AI on the edge" devices , does anyone actually use it ? 
2022-11-15T11:02:35 < Xogium> Ad0: depends for what... I don't know how good AI is, these  days but I always hoped one could make a device that blind people could wear that would try to keep track of the face of person you talk to, and figure out their facial expression then tell you in real time
2022-11-15T11:02:40 < Xogium> maybe one day :)
2022-11-15T11:02:57 < Xogium> it's painful to socialize when I miss 90% of the communication
2022-11-15T11:02:57 < Ad0> hehe
2022-11-15T11:03:02 < Ad0> yeah
2022-11-15T11:03:19 < Ad0> I guess that should be technically possible now
2022-11-15T11:03:41 < Xogium> would be nice if it could also learn body language
2022-11-15T11:03:55 < Xogium> but emotions first, that'll already help a ton
2022-11-15T11:05:05 < Ad0> yeh
2022-11-15T11:05:28 < Xogium> I had a dream where this was super advanced and thousands of blind people were wearing this device, helping it learn and sharing the power of neutonal network between them
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2022-11-15T11:05:59 < Xogium> so the AI learned to read a book, learned to focus on faces of people, learned body language, it was awesome
2022-11-15T11:06:15 < Xogium> *neuronal, I meant ;)
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2022-11-15T11:07:19 < jpa-> i doubt you are actually missing 90%, considering tone of voice conveys a lot also
2022-11-15T11:07:56 < Xogium> jpa-: yeah I maybe exagerated that a little, but I'm definitely missing a lot
2022-11-15T11:08:21 < jpa-> i'm not very keen on watching people's faces either, for some reason :D
2022-11-15T11:08:32 < Xogium> all those stupid signs one should see because it's apparently rude to interrupt when someone is talking. Meh
2022-11-15T11:09:12 < jpa-> ah, that indeed
2022-11-15T11:10:26 < qyx> of course, CSMA/CA
2022-11-15T11:10:30 < qyx> or better, LBT
2022-11-15T11:14:34 < jpa-> collision avoidance only works for short packets, if you want to allow long bursts there needs to be a way for the receiver to signal that it lost track
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2022-11-15T11:41:25 < Xogium> jpa-: yeah I meant the global so-called non verbal comunication, sorry I should have been more precise
2022-11-15T11:42:18 < Xogium> can't see if people only nod their head or shake their head, can't see, well whatever else is non verbal really and that's a large part in comunicating
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2022-11-15T14:31:42 < Steffanx-> *me nods* 😛
2022-11-15T14:51:32 < ventYl> creepy thing I wanted to suggest to Laurence was AFDX, the stuff Airbus built on top of 100mbit ethernet
2022-11-15T14:51:41 < ventYl> apparently it can be done using COTS hardware
2022-11-15T14:51:46 < ventYl> to some usable extent
2022-11-15T15:14:42 < karlp> we only use what, two ethertypes?
2022-11-15T15:21:18 < karlp> heh, cots hardware, as long asyou have fully managed switching tables.  interesting amoutn of protocol work to save hardware costs.
2022-11-15T15:22:28 < karlp> neat approach really. ...
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2022-11-15T15:30:44 < ventYl> it essentially is automotive-grade CAN over ethernet with tons of QoS
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2022-11-15T15:49:18 < karlp> it doesn't sound anything like can at all, at least the way I think of it, with priorities automatically taking over the bus.
2022-11-15T15:49:30 < karlp> in that things have fixed and pre-known addresses/virtual links, yeah.
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2022-11-15T16:08:32 < zyp> AFDX sounds like a fixed multicast setup
2022-11-15T16:09:31 < ventYl> kinda
2022-11-15T16:10:03 < ventYl> I discovered it accidentally, but it looks that it could solve some of Launcence's problems
2022-11-15T16:10:11 < ventYl> in a fashion he would definitely like
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2022-11-15T17:15:07 < Laurence_b> anyone here ever used teensy?
2022-11-15T17:15:19  * Laurence_b is getting epin c++ failure
2022-11-15T17:21:51 < Laurence_b> arduino ide was a mistake
2022-11-15T17:22:05 < Laurence_b> 'MTPD' does not name a type
2022-11-15T17:22:08 < Laurence_b> noice
2022-11-15T17:27:32 < Laurence_b> hmm header files is prob not found
2022-11-15T17:30:14 < karlp> don't worry, arduino now owrks with micropython...
2022-11-15T17:30:45 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-11-15T17:30:57 < Laurence_b> hmm no sketch -> include library gives same error
2022-11-15T17:31:03 < Laurence_b> but the MTPD lib is there
2022-11-15T17:34:03 < karlp> put some more spaces in?
2022-11-15T17:35:37 < Laurence_b>  https://github.com/KurtE/MTP_Teensy/blob/main/examples/LFS_SPI_MTP_Simple_Datalogger/LFS_SPI_MTP_Simple_Datalogger.ino
2022-11-15T17:35:37 < Laurence_b>  I'm selecting example projects, fails at line 32
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2022-11-15T17:38:55 < Laurence_b> https://github.com/KurtE/MTP_Teensy/pull/24
2022-11-15T17:44:50 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of teensy
2022-11-15T17:44:52 < Laurence_b> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/KurtE/MTP_Teensy/main/examples/Simplified%20Examples/Example_4_MTP_LFS_SPI_SD/Example_4_MTP_LFS_SPI_SD.ino
2022-11-15T17:44:55 < Laurence_b> they changed the api
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2022-11-15T18:16:19 < ventYl> Laurence_b: what about using AFDX to solve all your bandwidth vs. realtime issues?
2022-11-15T18:17:12 < bitmask> heyo
2022-11-15T18:18:06 < Laurence_b> interesting idea
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2022-11-15T19:53:28 < qyx> so, TIM1 advanced timer, PWM1 mode, both OC and OCN enabled
2022-11-15T19:54:01 < qyx> for a 6-step commutation, one phase must be disabled, both high and low bridge legs
2022-11-15T20:00:51 < qyx> so, how
2022-11-15T20:01:02 < qyx> st community suggests it isimpossible
2022-11-15T20:01:26 < qyx> ie. possibleonly if you change MODER or switch OCN polarity
2022-11-15T20:01:46 < qyx> because disabling OCN or switching to inactive forces it to H
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2022-11-15T20:18:21 < jpa-> qyx: the states where OCxN goes when disabled can be selected by CR2 i think
2022-11-15T20:19:11 < jpa-> qyx: you could also write CCRx to value higher than timer maximum count and set the channel polarities in CCER accordingly
2022-11-15T20:19:41 < jpa-> (CCER has preload so should work fine)
2022-11-15T20:19:51 < jpa-> (MODER has preload also apparently)
2022-11-15T20:30:26 < qyx> hm yeah but it can be selected as active or inactive
2022-11-15T20:30:45 < qyx> oh you mean
2022-11-15T20:31:54 < qyx> yes it is inactive high, so setting it as inactive doesn't help of course
2022-11-15T20:32:59 < jpa-> i'm not sure what you are referring to
2022-11-15T20:33:43 < qyx> they are using active/inactive wording instead of high/low
2022-11-15T20:33:58 < qyx> activeis high or lowdepending on the priority
2022-11-15T20:34:09 < jpa-> i myself wouldn't disable the output though, i would just adjust the polarity on the fly
2022-11-15T20:35:14 < qyx> setting force active should set the complementary to low
2022-11-15T20:36:32 < qyx> probably the only combination I didn't try
2022-11-15T20:39:28 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/RM0090_table95.png   this table is useful in figuring these out
2022-11-15T20:40:34 < jpa-> particularly note that if you disable an output channel, it takes the GPIO value
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2022-11-15T20:55:37 < Laurence_b> argg why did hyperboss decide to use teensy
2022-11-15T20:58:44 < qyx> jpa-: even when not unsetting the AF?
2022-11-15T21:02:46 -!- fluiddd [~fluiddd@161.97.206.200] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-15T21:06:29 < Laurence_b> like what does the qspi nor flash even do... ?
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2022-11-15T21:10:38 < Steffanx-> How can a "boss" decide this Laurence_b  
2022-11-15T21:11:16 < Steffanx-> Get this big mouth of yours and use it to say "fuck no"
2022-11-15T21:11:35 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-11-15T21:11:43 < Laurence_b> its cheap and easy to use
2022-11-15T21:11:47 < Laurence_b> he says....
2022-11-15T21:11:59 < BrainDamage> he's not the one that has to program it tho
2022-11-15T21:12:05 < Laurence_b> ikr
2022-11-15T21:12:15 < Laurence_b> I still cant work out what the qspi flash does
2022-11-15T21:12:31 < Laurence_b> also it has an entire micro on the board to "prevent cloning"
2022-11-15T21:13:38 < Laurence_b> I dont think this qspi flash is for user code.. who knows what it does
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2022-11-15T21:17:30 < Laurence_b> https://www.electromaker.io/uploads/images/Blog/Maker%20Board%20Mondays/Teensy%204/Teensy_4_825.jpg
2022-11-15T21:17:34 < Laurence_b> above pin 8
2022-11-15T21:17:37 < Laurence_b> also >maker
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2022-11-15T21:24:24 < ventYl> is it for prototyping purposes, before real-like HW is prepared?
2022-11-15T21:25:51 < Steffanx-> No..
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2022-11-15T22:01:33 < Laurence_b> oh sheeettt
2022-11-15T22:01:46 < Laurence_b> thats the downside of the fast nxp
2022-11-15T22:01:49 < Laurence_b> it only has ram
2022-11-15T22:02:00 < Laurence_b> has to run from slow qspi flash
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2022-11-15T22:11:36 < mawk> wtf lolrence was on ##math
2022-11-15T22:18:30 -!- Linux_Kerio [~Linux_Ker@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2022-11-15T22:19:46 < mawk> Laurence_b why are you on ##math
2022-11-15T22:21:07 < Laurence_b> I dunno, because I joined ages ago and forgot to leave
2022-11-15T22:21:57 < Laurence_b> wtf teensy
2022-11-15T22:22:04 < Laurence_b> >MTP not mass storage
2022-11-15T22:22:06 < Laurence_b> whyyyy
2022-11-15T22:25:04 < Laurence_b> >tinyfs not fatfs
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2022-11-15T22:33:29 < qyx> jpa-: oh me dumb, I had pullup on OCxN enabled :S
2022-11-15T22:34:10 < Laurence_b> hmm progmem littlefs still fails
2022-11-15T22:34:26 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of this, init returns a boolean
2022-11-15T22:34:43 < Laurence_b> and of course there is no jtag
2022-11-15T22:35:43 < ventYl> lolrence, are you dropping those into production?
2022-11-15T22:37:11 < Laurence_b> yes
2022-11-15T22:37:24 < ventYl> lulz
2022-11-15T22:38:29 < Laurence_b> yeah its supposed to be a battery powered datalogger than connects as mass storage
2022-11-15T22:38:46 < Laurence_b> but it has to run off AA cells for years
2022-11-15T22:40:14 < ventYl> there was a company here, which developped some remote monitoring devices running on AVRs off single 12V primary battery with battery replacement interval close to 10 years
2022-11-15T22:40:34 < ventYl> it was used in remote natural gas pumping stations
2022-11-15T22:41:46 < ventYl> when company responsible for infrastructure opened tender for new devices requiring such long period, Siemens complained, that such requirement is impossible and should be removed
2022-11-15T22:42:09 < ventYl> company replied in way that: how this is impossible, if devices we already use have this capability?
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2022-11-15T22:48:20 < BrainDamage> is it some of those dry lithium air batteries? because most batteries would go flat on their own over 10 years
2022-11-15T22:49:14 < Laurence_b> energizer lithium would probably work
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2022-11-15T22:53:26 < ventYl> BrainDamage: IDK any additional details. It was also some 10 years ago
2022-11-15T22:53:54 < ventYl> they wanted to expand to ARM market and were searching for someone with prior experience of porting Linux to new ARM-based HW
2022-11-15T22:55:35 < Laurence_b> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30383567
2022-11-15T22:55:36 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-11-15T23:03:42 < Laurence_b> looks like program memory uses encryption, probably something going wrong there
2022-11-15T23:05:12 < Laurence_b> https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/69411-Using-file-system-with-Teensy-4-0
2022-11-15T23:06:00 < Laurence_b> wtf... example code doesnt actually work
2022-11-15T23:06:11 < Laurence_b> thats about the fifth example I've found so far
2022-11-15T23:06:57 < BrainDamage> to be fair, something not working for you is the norm, not the exception
2022-11-15T23:07:38 < ventYl> :>
2022-11-15T23:07:57 < BrainDamage> "if I melt this toothbrush handle just right, I can use it as a screwdriver" is your average line of thinking, instead of using a screwdriver
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2022-11-15T23:08:40 < ventYl> kakium
2022-11-15T23:11:51 < kaki> yes
2022-11-15T23:12:35 < ventYl> no nuclear winter yet?
2022-11-15T23:13:01 < BrainDamage> russia's working on that, it landed few missiles in poland just recently
2022-11-15T23:13:32 < ventYl> I know, landing site is some 300km from here
2022-11-15T23:15:57 < kaki> winter yes
2022-11-15T23:16:16 < kaki> nuclear or not cannot tell difference
2022-11-15T23:17:35 < kaki> ventYl: N52 E90?
2022-11-15T23:17:44 < ventYl> wat?
2022-11-15T23:17:56 < kaki> bmw
2022-11-15T23:18:23 < ventYl> i have absolutely no clue about it
2022-11-15T23:20:23 < Laurence_b> truly epic fail
2022-11-15T23:20:33 < Laurence_b> teensy code fails if encryption is turned off
2022-11-15T23:20:35 < Laurence_b> derp
2022-11-15T23:20:52 < BrainDamage> encrypt with a deterministic key
2022-11-15T23:21:02 < BrainDamage> if your key is 00000000, there's no problem
2022-11-15T23:21:10 < Laurence_b> because there is no init handler for that case...
2022-11-15T23:21:19 < ventYl> I have returned to WIP code, which I didn't touch since january
2022-11-15T23:21:53 < Laurence_b> loads of their example code fails because they changed the api since it was written
2022-11-15T23:22:16 < ventYl> yeah, code rots, if you don't have working automation
2022-11-15T23:22:42 < Laurence_b> looks like they never tested progmem filesystem with encryption turned off either
2022-11-15T23:23:40 < Laurence_b> proper code is back compatible and tested
2022-11-15T23:24:23 < qyx> I am mildly dumb now, cannot get EXTI to work
2022-11-15T23:25:05 < ventYl> Laurence_b: backwards compatibility is only guarranteed if you keep you API untouched
2022-11-15T23:25:23 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/JXMCV
2022-11-15T23:25:26 < qyx> am I missing something?
2022-11-15T23:25:28 < ventYl> while neither API stability nor proper versioning are common practices, code often rots due to API incompatibility
2022-11-15T23:26:41 < Laurence_b> teensy has neither of those, and also does other nasty stuff, like hardcoded hardware interfaces spread all through files
2022-11-15T23:26:47 < Laurence_b> the code is plain nasty
2022-11-15T23:27:01 < Laurence_b> compared to something like chibios
2022-11-15T23:28:23 < Laurence_b> I just found some code for identifying different types of winbond nand flash... in the middle of some random other code
2022-11-15T23:32:07 < Laurence_b> screw this, MTP and <1Meg will have to be good enough for this shit
2022-11-15T23:37:16 < Laurence_b> >hyperboss budgeted £5k for this
2022-11-15T23:37:19 < Laurence_b> wtf lmao
2022-11-15T23:39:08 < specing> Laurence_b: budget: 500k gbp total. marketing: 495k gbp. engineering 5k gbp.
2022-11-15T23:43:11 < Laurence_b> lol probably
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2022-11-15T23:46:19 < catphish_> kaki: i looked at that google silicon thing, i'm super interested, but have no idea what i'm doing, decided to take some time to re-learn fpga
2022-11-15T23:47:01 < kaki> yeah it's more like for some silicon pros I think
2022-11-15T23:47:05 -!- drkow [~k\o\w@72.53.234.152] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-15T23:48:00 < catphish_> i love the idea of silicon development, but apart from having absolutely no application for it, i have no idea where to begin!
2022-11-15T23:48:25 < catphish_> i'm relearning how to use FPGAs, but i don't really know what to do with it
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2022-11-15T23:49:54 < zyp> which thing?
2022-11-15T23:51:17 < zyp> I was almost tempted to see if I could throw something together for tinytapeout the other day, but if I interpreted the FAQ correctly, it's too slow for anything I had in mind
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2022-11-15T23:54:16 < zyp> ah, right, it's slow because any IO update requires shifting through an 8000b long shift register
2022-11-15T23:54:41 < zyp> so expected IO rate is 12.5 kHz
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--- Day changed ke marras 16 2022
2022-11-16T00:02:00 < splud> 8000b shift register ?
2022-11-16T00:02:08 < splud> what is this?
2022-11-16T00:03:21 < zyp> https://tinytapeout.com/
2022-11-16T00:10:53 -!- begriffs [~begriffs@user/begriffs] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-16T00:12:10 < splud> and WHY an 8000b shift reg?
2022-11-16T00:13:13 < splud> can't possibly have logic to operate on sections rather than the whole chain?
2022-11-16T00:13:38 < splud>  Time fer wurk.  Later.
2022-11-16T00:13:58 < zyp> presumably because it's cheap, logic wise
2022-11-16T00:14:00 < ventYl> smells like boundary scanning capability?
2022-11-16T00:14:45 < zyp> the whole point is to mux 500 small designs cheaply
2022-11-16T00:27:57 < Laurence_b> lol wtf
2022-11-16T00:32:16 < englishman> awesome
2022-11-16T00:33:16 < qyx> laurensome
2022-11-16T00:38:23 < catphish_> zyp: i haven't seen tinytapeout
2022-11-16T00:40:12 < englishman> haha, so you get a chip with everyone's design on it, that's great
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2022-11-16T01:02:39 < splud> Wait, they're not laying out one l;arger tapeout, with your stuff at one location in the grid?
2022-11-16T01:03:16 < splud> its " your shit is on pins 12, 13, 18, 21,27, 32-35 ?
2022-11-16T01:03:38 < splud> "Kindly make no connection to the other pins"
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2022-11-16T02:01:44 < catphish_> $100?!
2022-11-16T02:02:13 < catphish_> guessing you don't get much space for that price
2022-11-16T02:05:55 < bitmask> omg, too many validation errors
2022-11-16T02:09:51 < catphish_> i'm building my ddr3 controller again, purely because that's about the most interesting thing to do on an fpga dev board that has bothing but an fpga and a ddr3 ram
2022-11-16T02:13:05 < catphish_> everything is sequential though, so i find myself just writing sequential code like it's a processor
2022-11-16T02:34:51 < splud> catphish_ - ADC with a crapton of sample buffer ?
2022-11-16T03:04:30 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1592684343604162562
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2022-11-16T03:35:19 < machinehum> Hello stm32
2022-11-16T03:35:39 < machinehum> If I'm shopping around digikey for a female header to mate with this https://imgur.com/a/pFBfUdu
2022-11-16T03:35:52 < machinehum> How would I specify which pin is filled?
2022-11-16T03:36:23 < machinehum> And a more broad question can you buy 2.54mm female headers with positions filled for polarity
2022-11-16T03:38:09 < machinehum> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAoHCBUVFBcUFRUYGBcZGiMcGRoZGRocGhwaIBwZGhoZHBwgICwjGiAoIBoZJTUoKy4vMjIyGSI4PTgxPCwxMi8BCwsLDw4PFxARGS8gGSAxMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMS8vMTEvMTEvMTExMTExMTExPDExMTwxLzE8Ly8vMf/AABEIAKsBJgMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUDBgcBAgj/xAA/EAACAQIEBAQDBgQGAAcBAAABAgMAEQQSITEFEyJBBlFhcSMygQcUQlJikTNyobFDgsHR4fAVU2NzkqLxJP/EABYBAQEBAAAAAAAAAA
2022-11-16T03:38:12 < machinehum> AAAAAAAAABAv/EABwRAQEBAAIDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAARASExAkFREv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A7NSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlUnFvEkEByFjJL2ijGeT6gfL9bUF3VBxzxVhsL0u+aTtGnU1/Xsv1rVeN8WxsqEvmwkRKhVQAyyZthcsuvmAQddjVVhcNNBKsceD0Y5WlckykE2MgKm8A1vtffU2qwW6eL5ZnBXERQG/TDy2kY76SMQCT6JrqNKveE+L0cKuJQ4dybBm/hM3kH/CfRrfWtY4rgoo3i5suJzK3RPlQmPqyqJJcl99bG9VeJ4lDhHZXijxHMGcSIEGYEsoDIAUVrg9Si5B9aRK7GDfUV9VyDwnxLGqryQFGiGow5Yt
2022-11-16T03:38:14 < machinehum> e7WCxqLumt7XsNL61vnB/FkEzcpjyphoYnIvfyVho3tv6VFbHSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlU/F/EMGG6Xa8h+WNeqRidgFG1/W1BcVR8b8T4bC6SPd+yJ1P8AUbL7sRVBxHHY2caBoEP+HH1Yhl9Xtli+pHvVfxXCYOCB1MPMzkKV6FxKltmu5LOxN/lFvTc1YlQpfGGJx0yQQgxRubERuBIVAJa8jCwsATYD01rzCYeHBF8SGllBOQRNaKQXNixDEc7UWGUEd7VB49x6WOMQxwPFGY1jVpQQRbW6orctZBp1ABvQVWYaYwSLNPKJJV2iLGVvKzyXKxnXzYjyoMnHsczypLysRylt8OZmEZtrYCPKFH9f
2022-11-16T03:38:16 < machinehum> barjCcRjnDPlaeS10haQRyRHyisAsn8y2fbQmsfEPGsTRsqQvciwzsuUX87C7d/KtJRSxAW5N9AB/tUqx0DFYyVMMpxM62Y5QY3VplGtwyOCJLbH5W9TUODg8MGDkxIWHEyBwPiFsixnQHlEg5ttG18r96mPi0sUkb4mIuVtld1HNFtusizgeT3+lXmE4gmJkfESSSs6rZFhjCyKCR0vFqWBuPzJ52oIHDocViEMmHw2Hhy3vMt4kyj5kZSxVx59JGlTMTJ8GNcVy3RTaNoWR4ZJDfWQRESAhdAAAN7nWpUskkmHTDgxQyLKWSQSBOSRmYo+Rjy5GUnpUZfm27QMN4fjhnT7xzUcsChdl5Uhve4mVTrfUKbE+lVF7BxyfBfNIjwnWOKaT44TKDcOM
2022-11-16T03:38:18 < machinehum> wAvewYnsLg6Vt/A/EmHxY+G9n7xv0uPp+IeouK5xxeXB4mf7uiskvMYczpRL5jnuv4rtfXKDpuajHhUMF5EkM2U5c5bkxI5vZlkDFpGFhonn9KQx2qlc8w3iifCLH95ZZ4nVWWQELL1a2yMQZABbUhTrW58K4vDiUzwuGHcbMPRlOoqKsKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUqFhuJQyO0aSo7r8yqwLD3AoJtKVgnxCoMzsFHqf7edBnpWDD4hJBdGDDvY3t6HyNZ6BSlVPGfEGHwovK4B7INXPso1+psPWgtqqOL8fgw1hI93PyxoM0jHsAg119bCtDx3jLGYtuVg4zGpNrixksTa5bZBr+G5HnWHhWDjgWZ8VJIM5KO1miIYDMxR2+LKCbDpFjfV
2022-11-16T03:38:20 < machinehum> SLGgseL+JsTLdVzQLtkiTm4j/OQQsXna4aoPCVaLDYhl5bSqwcSMpLyKSAYpFPxEa+3mSLE2NZMBxqDDYZSA7R5mVCQqSMpv1ZGIDj9anvqBWr8d8QGWbmQ54rLlBDZXIPmV29rmg2bF+JGjQF15D2+RnM0o/9uEnLF/NJqPymtQx3H5HYsl0LaNIWzTMPIyfhH6UCj0qrLfvXw1WiRhOISRk5To3zIwDI/wDMp0P96lmGCYfDIw8v5HJ5LH9Eh1jPo+n6hVTas2Gw7yMERSznZVBJP0FQZHwMqSCJo3Eh2Qi5N9sv5gfMaGr3hWLXBG8nKkYnqRLM6CxveUdFx+UE+pFfERWFDHinEqi9sOpDlW8zLtCb7hCxPcVW8LxyxOx5WclSFN1DRm4s6sy
2022-11-16T03:38:22 < machinehum> MoYbXKnfS1BsfGPEEEiiNBmLbmRcqJ72BJ+gqqxHBlVBJFLmKDNJJbJADuFjmYjMw0GUC977WqBj8YsjXEYHe+ZndidzJIxu59goF9qzYLFhVVY8qSX+eSzWJ0zIzdMOml8ub9XamD7w/iGVMxGQyMCDKyAy2NrjMdNgBci/rWfg+KllR4GlkMSqX5SspZ8pHQmbbe/fRToassPhkEsZlijmkXqdsOjOo3/jRhRG+97pY3GofvOxPCoJcOJJS8pz5VkTKyxkm4AyqDZdNZcttbAbVUQOOMuHwsbwyRxlzcrC4difKRmGdyPLQX7AVm8KTYqVmkQxgxoBlmtddb/DXaK4NvL0O1SGSO8aKcssBDcyVw7LtmXMy2K22FtDsBcg5MfgGxUokxLsYcnw5
2022-11-16T03:38:24 < machinehum> MPEt/NlkADlbajuPUaiorBiWhxzZcqRy5rNlZTM72AFnJyGO/lmOgsNbVnPDxFIDARGgAXnxrMxSQsFy51LLMc1wVIUDMNqr1nkeCSHDwCXDg/xzEQ2Xuct+ph5gX9BU6TiX3VYkXEpPoFAdQDDoOpWJC6AmwYg6jW1Ki+4P4zkVzDiUEhUXaWC0mVQbZpVS4Ha5Um19q3TB4uOVA8bq6HZlNxXNnK4i0cbKqx3eXmPy2d2tlzRQ2Ei5iCCrW6rDW9emExy8yB/uRKlznVlRkjAVrRCPLY6N1Nm6hoL1YOo0rQ+AfaJFJZMSBE/5xfln3vqn1uPWt4jkDAFSCDqCDcEeYPeorJSlKBSlKBSlUfHPE2Gwg+I93tpGurn6fhHqbCgvK1zj/jDDYS6s2
2022-11-16T03:38:26 < machinehum> eQf4aWLX/Udl+uvpXOfEHj3Ez3WM8mM9kPWR+p9/oLfWtQL0Gz8f8bYnFXXNy4j+CMkXH6m3b20HpWuQzsjBkYqwNwVJBB8wRqKxXpQb3wv7R50TJLaTykt1j3Ggb30+tXHCMLJxO8rzcuO9iqOGmP83aIHyArld6k4HHyQuHikaNx3U2NvI9iPQ1IOoeGsLHhMdIisVQ4fM2bu2dQt/M2zW9zV7i/GGGjbK5caXHSSW9l3+pFcig47IFKZsha+aWzMx0JGl9Nf2vtUbHplVCJBJI0q5smZsosdOYQAxPcC4GUa9hOcVuvE/tAknkWKEjDxMwUytYuFJALflQDX/cVXJHhxIzzJmjDkAkzTTzEbMMrBLGwNyCLECqNOEWDSTSCJdbD8R9gdv61jia
2022-11-16T03:38:28 < machinehum> QsEw8soQ/mkCAW3LFWCqNQdQN7aki9zyxNxuPG8SYkjEUaQxumcmUWWO+eyJCN5Nc2gYgtrbtpsmMjVi0a55CSTNKqkknUssQ6FN9bnMfar7h3DGmLR4iSJhGMqteTnAn5QgZFZ1uTowINiVvvVVxXwzNDrlLLa5IU3G24+ouRe1xfLetaiomlZ2LOxZjuWJJP1NfFB/8AlPKorysmGwzyNljQs3kBU9eHxxjNiJMnlFGVeY/za5IRt8xzfpqz8Pcaw8chKRiK4y3Z2kjYbgOfnja/4lBGvyUEbh/ANScTmiFugaDmN+Tmm6Re7edYuIY2WPNAsX3ZdmQXDsO3MkPVIPrl8hW247EvLCwkMUMLH+LzVmLgf+VlA3v6tt0VVpioZlXCxxyPFGGZ5nG
2022-11-16T03:38:30 < machinehum> aVUAOYxg/JfYXNtdFBpyNPy2tr9O3716WrJLhxyxMtollYiGAl5ZZArZCxsOnUHXT0rFIhRskilHG6uLEd+/9jQeE0vQ15aoJ2E4lJGuQMxjJ6o8zBT5jpIIv3sde9X3D+Ixs2eImGXLkSKFEXN5cx3bLKN9D57GtUr2g3GFY0mvKIo5WTrEbNJDoRYSousB9VJX0rHicZPFKyYeEl5TmDKt42tqJIUUsug15hZm88tU2A43JGvLZmMR+ZVbIxBvcZwL96vuF8RAJkwzBQBZMKkcszMwuc0gJAXTd189zaxuD7wrzGFrNkWU2L4VpCEksDlmiFwl81iUtYn6V54g5SYdML0ROh6yzCXMTckqLZ2NzexCD1FZ55IzIokH3eUKD93aSNIi1yQ6SJ058
2022-11-16T03:38:32 < machinehum> xJyyW1O4rHgYsQ8b5+VDKjElpmVZFW2jLckAH84v6E00ZOAYeJI1LBopEuyvKACBcsMoXSInfTU3GpqBj/Eqvmg0MZuGZradjkzfKd9T+1SmeaTCBPupSVmyRylxlkAzMz5WYyPte6hr3BrW+H4aJHfmpI8qn8SWWPvnVSCrEb2ewOlrVNwq7xMEEcImjXPE4VeXJHZy40ZxKWzICC3UnTew1qX4cxkkKNLDiUUMTy8Kc0xc75CBYqxuBmUdxfyrySReSHiQySsLnEib5R/6sdiyruCrDLtYmsOO4dypFjSQRYmYZR93YmNwxAKvGDmiB3utwbHpFaRv/CfGEUjcqYCCYGxVmVkLeSyA5SfQ2NbRXLYcMAiQL92cSgtZAoilygDUZ88bgrcEErc6h
2022-11-16T03:38:33 < rustyaxe> wtf a fuck?
2022-11-16T03:38:34 < machinehum> Sa+P/H5cC1kYtGtg+HmLB4zb/DZupkvexFwPLYlCuq0rXvDnizDYwERsUkAu0b6MBcC4OzC5GoPcXtSor3xti3jwcrRuUfpAZTZhd1Bse2l9a4bKCSTfNc6m9yT3ufOuz/aO9sE3rIg/rf/AErg+Iw0oYSIe9mAOtr9xsRQSjXlZpyo309a+CmlxqPMbfvQY6E0NfNqD0GleV5eg+w1Z8LinjYOhsR/0i1R1r29BbYBYppbzyWdj0tKSsK9wGy62vpYZR61L8OcPszySR/CzsylmMZU6BZI2GxBGh2rXzUiHFsthoyg3yPcpfzK3FZ3Pi1sPG+NiQoX62FkWY9BudLjILtexuTpvUxeKvy5DK/KdkATEOt5WCnqjtfqFyRnQD5QSPLV+Xz+Uge7qw
2022-11-16T03:38:36 < machinehum> /iMQAgPyR7i3cDTUmr7ENHGDGAZpATJlCqRGBe5JAvYC+9/ppUsJVnP4dhxMSzxy5iFvLIESMSd/kJAV79NzYb3NROBSRxGZzhGSONR8QO/NvfIuSSwU3axuMqiwN7b1uF4/JIc3OEYiYAHIMqW6rqACXGmxt21FZDxfn4znPJNFFlIMgJbKctvlysqIxC3WzDX8VbzUXE0MwMU+JQLE2meIRtiGD26WkCi5Nj/DVbXO1ya+eKcEEjSy/G5QQqvOeR3SQ5etgM5WNRqQdddRtbJh4FkiK3SJ3GQTQFuVnBByO3SYi4bVVygk2uCMtY/DvC3w04haUpJIvUeYEisQfktcyyDW18tvI1UYJsKksaLiuZnjj6JoxzQ8YOnL5dw6i6izBW/X2qXDBeMhF
2022-11-16T03:38:38 < machinehum> 5eEFjlw4kklmvcEOxCsnkQwFvUa1i4SI1xOJVy8saOEDZwWDXZmNxv1XNr9z3vULjXiYRylICSRs5BH0C7n6/tWfLWok4mHlukjIIZEhMWEw8VjKpIKiRiW6TYtr6nvVHJwkRmPCvkW0TT4ya3NmB1bIDrlOqpYWudT3q64XiwY5Z+Z93UkCTFZQwck2KhrZopD5LddtBWWRI0jMecQYVr5nDiSbFA/kK3BFz2One1EaXLCVjWUXWGQkQpKy811BIzKq62uD6e+hrF3tYg+RFmH0rbsVhsh+98sQuIOTg4cpkmvbLzMmXQ5dvIn96rF8IAZcPJZZFi+8YrFSs7Op7qgHmSABubUFRSvqaF1QTFX5LkiOR1CM41swUm5BAvf8ArWNGBFwbj/v7UHte
2022-11-16T03:38:40 < machinehum> oxBBBII1BBsQfQ15SguuH8bsrRP0I/8AEkiSPnMDfR2YdW++9WseIyIHjaN4E0ihlbmyh7WzRERloHt7gf2055AK+IOLSRuHicoR3BIuL7HzB8qo6dw6W+IjkiLriSirJFiVBJUCwe7MrDQamPN3OQbVQPwHNJLJjJHilzHLEIpGRiSzdFr8wHTY31qdwfhpxaszRxQKwDSSysZJ9N2XOfhC+tzt61J8ReKMKsa4eMNiWTaWRjluO5YWMt9iB0kd6qKvH8SjHKV444JIrC8JtNpp1OBaFe5BDt+mrz7nHAsk05R8PMdXhQRlAxcMPh2LoSVscxNvwC+mh4ueBlV44mjlvqgs0Omt1DdQv+U3HrUOeYsSdBdi2VRlQE75VGi/SglcUESysIGZoxbKz
2022-11-16T03:38:42 < machinehum> DW9tQCQCQDsSAbW0qPiMW8nVI7M3mxJP9a8wuHkkcRxo0jnZVBJ/YdvWuh+HfsyZrPjXsN+VGdfZ37ey/vUVQ+AeEy4iZzGcipHZny3FyykLp3IBP09RSuz4DAxwII4kVEGyqLD/n3pQaz9pz2wa+sqj/6uf9K42MRGxy3Gbex3+nnXUPHuJfExGOGPMYpSXUG8lgHXPl/Kb3FrnXtqK5LLw1WZGVjmUgsG02NzpuDQSpYA9gzZRrcgXO2lR+GYVosyFri4sQdNv6d6y4nEZBe1xYk/SvcPiVkGZTcf2PkaDE+ITNlJCk7X2Pbevt0IrBiuGq9iCcwufQ7G396k4iTLY270GIClfOGnSQEodRuDuKyFaD5r0UtXlqD6vQV5lr29AqVFjnVQoy9JJQ
2022-11-16T03:38:44 < machinehum> lFbKTYki41Og3va2lqhE0BoLrg2HiyO0kmdnkzctVOcnyP5rnXTTWpXHZ8TBGj5WhVmAVMrKxHUSS9rKRlAy/NrfYXOuo5BBBII2IqbjuKSTRRwyNmSNwyk3LaC2W9/lAJsO16z+fa1szSYiUq7SLGVHKM0ek0qi4tI2bKg+YdbAmwKqxNqgYGRVkEeEEmYqTJHKA0LkA3LggEabuVHoBWThfDRiizK0rFRmCIMoDbhie6na41ubXFfUuNsoAITPkkjhQXKzK1pIpQTmXMthfXc6aVai94HxWONZMO8McM0nUBJIQshbTPHMQ2Zb6ANf0Y7DVuH+HEkixM+KkQSJfLEZeXIjAkHOpGXU23vpV6+EMgkxUmHh5Q0lw+a0iG9+Yc4BRjcmylM19z3iY
2022-11-16T03:38:46 < machinehum> 7iEmIZMscUkDJZoUzAwhbdZlcAI4B3Ay7jW9XsVeFmxEccUkglWPaORUja6gaLYG7rYHpc7A29LfCRu8jGENEGBljisHw8hBJFozleBiQMpBJGlrDWveOMmJ5eDXEwkR9NwliVNsoR0blu3Yr0se3kYPiqWRJIsFhTzSigNy4irn9LjLoRbv51OcFpIWjmyRhPvUjKHZ+bNKitcHkvIqpIoA3vfWwLaWxSYZHilVSYoT0T4qYKZpGW/w0Q9SnU6HXWnDoguHmZsRFE1rNBIJABb8JsyvmOu3mTbWsXh+JGiXOZpJB/AQpEFjy3YmOWUWK6Do27ZWteqiPi41TmY7lqsccCxYKOcq5voA6R3/DbTzz31FV2K4OS4iueekXNxU8rCOKO9syABdbMwHr
2022-11-16T03:38:48 < machinehum> 2HlfwYos7yLJFiZ7D4xlLLCrXDWhRdMp3K3UZgTa5FY58Gs0cqRMZFkAOIx0ubJZL9MYJ1AudvSitMJIXPYmMkqJQrCNiPK4/wC+QqJLi/L96uPE5eeUNE5TCwqI0aXoiVVFgF7sxHZQWqFwzBwSnKZJHfMQoWAsXFhlMQMihTv819r+lBAwKmeURIQWa9r3N7C9lA+Y2G3et34b4WEYWRszE6CRUaQKSt1fKts8YvYtGTY2Ba17V/GsEYoowssgMmYSRSLEJQq7cx4zdkJJsrHtVQkziPl5mMd75CTkzfmy7X9avSNnx/G7RvBKIMQrDKGjZwQFJ5clwWQNqTa5YXIbfXV2avLedbd4d8A4nE2eQciM93HWw/Sm/wBTb61KrU0RmICgkk2AFySfI
2022-11-16T03:38:48 < rustyaxe> please stop
2022-11-16T03:38:50 < machinehum> Aak1vPh37N5pbPiSYY/y6GQj22j+tz6CujcB8MYbBj4SXe1jI3U5+vYegsKvKCs4NwSDCpkgjVB3O7N6sx1NWdKUClKUHH+Iztzma7I4Y66qwN9vOouOxEMyt95jbmAdM8KgSG2wkTRW9/7b11PjHAYcSPiLZ7WEi6OPr3Hobiudcd8N4jC3e3Ni/Oo1A/Wvb31FTOFc5fEpnaORdBcC5/2Nr/WsuEiSMEIbgm/toB/pVvjeGRTKW2bzFa5iMDJD6iqjKvErOEYb9x5k21FT2UHcX9DtUDD4qJwBIoBGxGliNe3npWTEzG10uTrtr28qDNhsKkZYroGtp5Wvt+9RcRxHlt1DMCT7gD+9ZeG4syKSwsQbG3f/apTxoylWVWB201B8wfOg+Sncd+3ev
2022-11-16T03:38:52 < machinehum> mvcQTYWve+lt6iYDFNIzI62K99v3HnQSL14TX26W1rEaBS9fLuBUd56DO8gFfGGUySJGDbO6qP8zBR/eojPX1hXIkjIOUhwQ3kQQb/AE3+lB0XGJ92vhHdY2K/DmBkBXWzAgN0A21y9J3y3rw4QwGJYsOzSS9DcwrLh5gfyubWJ3FspFtq1bF4l3cvJIZG7uSWJ+pubVL4bxyWH5DeM6NFIM0bed1O3uLVMSLx+GkPlxru8qAIsAJ5jR3uDFIM3NKgk5DbS2tffFeKxKFjZIxLE9k5QCTZRfplZLxxnLcMq5yfJaNFHiVLxyHCl2+LEznmzAi945GbPIvZUNkuKlvNg+Hgoqu8uU5Tqsq30tJnXIFNvIhtPhm2arBXcN41hXPLbCRRNK2VnCNKqg6
2022-11-16T03:38:54 < machinehum> DJHmupJ/L3A0N9JMmKaPExBcTGDHljeRpQsxQMVbMAGi0BsOZ1dmPliweL58glidIysYMsaII5iQdWL5GfIbg51BsLXCaGnA8XiEjnMSwBJAWAs0rPvcoSSz7kdZ37dqqpOI4aitNJj+dM4GZJYmVlyD5WyqekbfMMor5xDY2bDos6vHgxa7CNDJkB0ZlGoFu48trViweDjaJDBLJMy5jLDJHlgjDAiTM3SsAt5Nc+RqRgsVFLaPDrG0gkzJh3lkWDYaqGJSUqb6DljuA1gakR7FLHh7jDzO2Hl0aVykUnMuQDHJlzS2LliQptlsW0tXvFcIEkihbCqheURoGd2woXS0nS6h5SCb5gDYDQ7nBxLjsUMpw7xiWJUAdGjVmilB6lhaVLvGNLBx30IFU
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2022-11-16T03:38:56 < machinehum> nFfEk0jtkZVQpy7LGFV4xcLzI2Z1zAaXG1hbaqMvi7hDGSWRwIolYrEkznOwU5SIk1OW4JGy2I1qlleIxrHHCqkWLyMxd2axFgdAia/KB5XJrE7ljmZixPdiSdNtTrVlwTgOJxjWgjJAOsjaRr7t3PoLn0qbqqrKB/3Sr3w/4TxeMIaNMkR3lkuEt+gbyfTT1FdI8O/Z3h4LPP8AHlGvUPhqfRPxe7X9AK3cCg1fw74JwuEs+Xmyj/EcA2P6F2T+/rW00pQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQajx/wTFNd4TyZDroOhj+pe3uP2Nc54vw6bDHlzxkX2bdG/lbv7b+ld0qPi8KkiFJEVkO6sLg/Sg/OmP4OjaoQPMWqlvJC1iD/AL12TxD9nzLeTBm43MTnX/I5/
2022-11-16T03:38:58 < machinehum> s371oeLiIzRyIQ4NmV1IZfcGgpIsajagZSd/U+tRp3ljIYKch89t/3FSMTwrXMn7bGo0GOkj0YG3kb0FoT6/wDfKvSBe9tbWv3tUNmMospF99Tb/k/SvOGrIuZZL6Wy3+ux79qCdUTGvlFx51IDgmwOvl3qHxQEge9BBaQmvlj3NFcLreo7yX9qDJzKm8ISN5ohIQIywzk6DL3/AKVU5qyQKWYAa+l7UG/+IYcM0l8IQYwCC40QkW6V06iB5VXO6xjpQk6jPIgtYi2iEEX9ST7CrPgTx85ZB1HblNa4PnGdA/8ALofeti4rx/B8t0N3axHLMTghvI5gAtv+is9JjLwPA4GWMMzLLIQM7SuTIDbY3NwBVTx7iEUcgiJGJitqpYsYzcaRyaldN1vb23
2022-11-16T03:39:00 < machinehum> rWcNwyWQZkiZh5gafS+9WXhx4oZ/8A+tCFtpmB6TfcqNbfSqrYneLFRqIgjJGVyQxWw8qMRq7yFiUW975BY6amsJxaRsuHxGLMo1zNCxXXUZJXDZWucvV
2022-11-16T03:39:02 < machinehum> Shit
2022-11-16T03:39:04 < machinehum> Sorry
2022-11-16T03:39:06 < machinehum> My bad
2022-11-16T03:39:21 < rustyaxe> well shit i guess you CAN do jpegs over IRC
2022-11-16T03:40:56 < specing> we are lucky it was a small jpeg
2022-11-16T03:41:47 < rustyaxe> (read -a M <<< "$(echo 'scale=62;obase=36;2469958312622/2821109907455'|BC_LINE_LENGTH=0 bc -l|cut -c 2-)";L=${#M[@]};for i in ${M[@]:0:$L};do printf %x "$(($i+55))";done)|xxd -r -p;echo
2022-11-16T03:41:51 < rustyaxe> have some base36 :P
2022-11-16T03:45:40 < rustyaxe> i have to get back to my stm32 project soon, that's going to be unfun as half of the hardware is outdoors in the tundrahell
2022-11-16T03:53:26 < machinehum> Before I spammed I was looking for a header that would fit this guy https://imgur.com/a/pFBfUdu with the correct hole filled
2022-11-16T03:58:23 < machinehum> This: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/molex/0015040292/1118772
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2022-11-16T15:51:37 < jpa-> https://twitter.com/in20im/status/1591150601156857857   looks like i have better equipped lab than russian rocket engineers
2022-11-16T16:00:15 < englishman> That’s the good DMM that they uses for media photos, too.
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2022-11-16T17:06:42 < Laurence_b> noice
2022-11-16T17:06:49 < Laurence_b> teensy deepsleep causes instant reboot
2022-11-16T17:28:43 < aandrew> Laurence_b: because it has a wakeup source pending or becuase deepsleep fails to enter
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2022-11-16T17:34:04 < Laurence_b> hmm looks like it expects some external PMIC
2022-11-16T17:34:25 < Laurence_b> hibernate is supported and is supposed to be equivalent
2022-11-16T17:34:31 < Laurence_b> but its drawing 6.5mA
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2022-11-16T21:20:26 < Laurence_b> wew
2022-11-16T21:20:32 < Laurence_b> teensy is kind of working
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2022-11-16T22:27:50 < Laurence_b> Q: what do you call 4 black guys? A: a gang Q: what do you call 4 Italians? A: the mafia Q: what do you call 4 jews? A: a coincidence you antisemitic bigot
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--- Day changed to marras 17 2022
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2022-11-17T01:22:36 < Laurence_b> truly epic fail
2022-11-17T01:22:44 < Laurence_b> >teensy has hardware on/off button
2022-11-17T01:22:56 < Laurence_b> I should have just read the datasheet
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2022-11-17T02:50:46 < aandrew> jadew: what're your favourite popcorn RF components (say sub-GHz or even sub-500MHz) - cheapass mixers, LNAs etc
2022-11-17T03:23:00 < machinehum> https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/about-us/news-and-insights/2022/ontario-teachers--statement-on-ftx/
2022-11-17T03:23:04 < machinehum> Are you fucking kidding me
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2022-11-17T03:25:04 < qyx> 0.05% is $95M?
2022-11-17T03:25:16 < machinehum> I also read that
2022-11-17T03:25:45 < qyx> are they 3x twatter?
2022-11-17T03:26:07 < machinehum> Guess they have 1.9B
2022-11-17T03:26:49 < qyx> 190B?
2022-11-17T03:26:59 < qyx> idk, 95M * 2000
2022-11-17T03:27:31 < machinehum> Oh fuck I forgot that was a percent
2022-11-17T03:27:39 < machinehum> I did 95/0.05
2022-11-17T03:27:45 < machinehum> Yeah 190B lol
2022-11-17T03:28:11 < qyx> sorry 4x twatter then
2022-11-17T03:28:28 < qyx> and then the world hunger..
2022-11-17T03:40:08 < englishman> >TVG’s investments are structured to provide Ontario Teachers’ with returns commensurate with the risk undertaken
2022-11-17T03:40:13 < englishman> might as just well go to the fucking casino
2022-11-17T03:40:38 < englishman> when you give a 30 year old child $100m to play with, without even asking for a balance sheet
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2022-11-17T12:33:36 < karlp> huh, silabs has _54_ MA-L's assigned.  
2022-11-17T12:33:43 < karlp> that's enough for 900 million devices.
2022-11-17T12:35:20 < karlp> nvm, intel has 540...
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2022-11-17T12:35:43 < karlp> 539 sorry... that's 9billion.
2022-11-17T12:38:10 < jpa-> doesn't sound that large, considering even a single laptop can have a bunch of MAC addresses
2022-11-17T12:39:26 < jpa-> i wouldn't be surprised if my home had more than 100 devices with MAC address in it
2022-11-17T12:39:55 < karlp> Id say some of our homes are highly non-representative, but sure.
2022-11-17T12:40:28 < karlp> englishman: do you know woodhouse software and electronics?
2022-11-17T12:44:37 < zyp> jpa-, I'm pretty sure mine does
2022-11-17T12:44:54 < zyp> the zigbee mesh alone consists of 44 devices if I'm counting right
2022-11-17T12:46:06 < zyp> and the network reports having 18 clients at the moment
2022-11-17T12:46:28 < benishor> wtf. I have this weird problem. i2c stops working after a while
2022-11-17T12:46:36 < benishor> clock remains high and data low
2022-11-17T12:47:04 < benishor> anybody ran into this before?
2022-11-17T12:47:43 < benishor> I have a single master setup
2022-11-17T12:47:47 < zyp> sure
2022-11-17T12:48:26 < benishor> zyp: what was it for you?
2022-11-17T12:49:10 < zyp> stuck i2c is typically insufficient error handling on the master
2022-11-17T12:50:05 < benishor> that would make sense
2022-11-17T12:50:21 < zyp> one of the slaves is probably still outputting a 0 and waiting for more clock pulses to proceed, but the master is errored out somewhere and doesn't know what to do
2022-11-17T12:50:49 < benishor> what would be the sane way of doing it?
2022-11-17T12:51:13 < zyp> of doing what? recovering from this situation or not getting into it in the first place?
2022-11-17T12:51:45 < zyp> to recover, you typically have to toggle the scl line a couple of times until the slave releases SDA
2022-11-17T12:52:12 < benishor> recovering yes
2022-11-17T12:52:30 < zyp> to not get into it in the first place, you need to figure out how the master fucked up
2022-11-17T12:52:43 < zyp> the stm32f1 i2c had some errata that made this common
2022-11-17T12:52:45 < benishor> problem is I'm not doing anything special
2022-11-17T12:52:54 < benishor> the product works doing the very same thing
2022-11-17T12:52:56 < zyp> less common to see this on newer parts
2022-11-17T12:53:06 < benishor> reading from a port expander
2022-11-17T12:53:27 < benishor> and after a while (tens of minutes) it ends up like that
2022-11-17T12:53:40 < zyp> what chip is the master?
2022-11-17T12:53:52 < benishor> stm32h750
2022-11-17T12:54:09 < zyp> ah, not familiar with i2c on that
2022-11-17T12:54:10 < benishor> I wonder if clock stretching could be the culprit
2022-11-17T12:54:35 < zyp> how do you figure?
2022-11-17T12:54:50 < zyp> clock stretching is when a slave is holding scl low
2022-11-17T12:55:24 < zyp> only way that'll be an issue is if the master doesn't support it and gets confused by it
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2022-11-17T12:56:44 < zyp> anyway, at this point I'd do a logic analyzer capture of the i2c traffic, look at what the last thing that happens before the problem is
2022-11-17T12:56:59 < benishor> sorry, I brainfarted
2022-11-17T12:58:19 < zyp> sometimes there'll be something obviously wrong in the LA capture, sometimes it looks good, except the master just stopped somewhere in the middle of a transaction
2022-11-17T12:58:41 < zyp> and in the latter case the next step is to then check with the debugger what the master think it's doing
2022-11-17T13:06:11 < benishor> it keeps timing out in I2C_WaitOnFlagUntilTimeout()
2022-11-17T13:06:36 < benishor> if (I2C_WaitOnFlagUntilTimeout(hi2c, I2C_FLAG_BUSY, SET, I2C_TIMEOUT_BUSY, tickstart) != HAL_OK)
2022-11-17T13:07:13 < benishor> that doesn't say the why 
2022-11-17T13:07:22 < jpa-> you would probably want to check the actual status register of the I2C peripheral and compare against reference manual
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2022-11-17T13:11:58 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/jdNpKkJ
2022-11-17T13:12:01 < benishor> haven't done this before
2022-11-17T13:12:58 < jpa-> and what does the reference manual tell that those bits mean?
2022-11-17T13:13:08 < benishor> not sure which register I am interested into
2022-11-17T13:13:13 < jpa-> ISR, mostly
2022-11-17T13:13:26 < benishor> thank you
2022-11-17T13:13:54 < benishor> well, BUSY bit is enabled
2022-11-17T13:15:39 < benishor> that still does not explain why it gets in the busy state
2022-11-17T13:15:49 < benishor> and never finishes
2022-11-17T13:19:21 < benishor> reference manual says : "This flag indicates that a communication is in progress on the bus. It is set by hardware when a START condition is detected. It is cleared by hardware when a STOP condition is detected, or when PE=0."
2022-11-17T13:19:45 < benishor> I could try a hack of disabling the peripheral  and reenabling it if I can detect the situation
2022-11-17T13:19:54 < benishor> but it feels very hackish
2022-11-17T13:20:21 < ventYl> that probably won't go well without full PHY reset
2022-11-17T13:25:45 < benishor> don't know how to do that
2022-11-17T13:26:17 < benishor> ah, the PE = 0 thing I mentioned above
2022-11-17T13:26:20 < benishor> `When the I2C is disabled (PE=0), the I2C performs a software reset.`
2022-11-17T13:26:35 < benishor> here's to hoping
2022-11-17T13:33:52 < englishman> karlp: i do not
2022-11-17T13:41:44 < jpa-> benishor: it could also be that the peripheral is the one holding SDA low
2022-11-17T13:42:38 < benishor> jpa-: honestly that's what I'm hoping
2022-11-17T13:42:55 < benishor> I implemented detecting the timeout and reseting PE 
2022-11-17T13:43:09 < benishor> and showing the number of failures on an oled. let's see how often it happens and if the fix works
2022-11-17T13:43:36 < jpa-> resetting the master will not clear a fault on the peripheral side (i mean the device on the bus)
2022-11-17T13:43:44 < jpa-> you may want to toggle SCL manually a few times
2022-11-17T13:44:11 < benishor> that;s the next step
2022-11-17T13:44:24 < benishor> first I want to determine if it's triggered by the master or the client
2022-11-17T13:44:51 < benishor> thank you for your help guys!
2022-11-17T13:44:56 < jpa-> seems like you could just test that from the debugger when it is hung up
2022-11-17T13:45:10 < jpa-> write PE = 0 and see if it clears, if not, toggle GPIO pin a few times
2022-11-17T13:45:18 < zyp> having working recovery is good and well, but I'd spend some more time figuring out why it happens in the first place and fixing that
2022-11-17T13:45:39 < benishor> zyp: yes, but I have no idea why it happens so far
2022-11-17T13:45:53 < jpa-> have you checked the data lines with oscilloscope yet?
2022-11-17T13:45:57 < benishor> the only thing the master is doing is reading from a port expander
2022-11-17T13:46:07 < benishor> jpa-: sure, I have the scope connected
2022-11-17T13:46:20 < jpa-> so what happens right before it stops working?
2022-11-17T13:46:37 < benishor> I don't have that much memory :/
2022-11-17T13:47:03 < jpa-> put trigger on normal mode and if your single access fits the memory, the last access will stay on screen
2022-11-17T13:47:41 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/xnCE3p7
2022-11-17T13:47:46 < benishor> waiting for the fuckage to appear
2022-11-17T13:54:39 < benishor> working on my beloved sdr transceiver https://imgur.com/k05yeJ5
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2022-11-17T15:41:51 < karlp> oh shit, I made a fun usb-c fail.
2022-11-17T15:41:57 < karlp> have a c-c cable,
2022-11-17T15:42:03 < karlp> if you flip one end, it works
2022-11-17T15:42:09 < karlp> if you flip the other end, it doesn't...
2022-11-17T15:44:58 < karlp> turns out the thing at the other end is missing both the CC pullups...
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2022-11-17T15:51:52 < karlp> no... not that.
2022-11-17T15:52:04 < karlp> hrm. I wonder if I have an active cable
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2022-11-17T16:40:26 < karlp> ok, I wasn't properly implementing the switches at the source end.  need a port controller there....
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2022-11-17T17:16:17 < jpa-> karlp: next time, try to make it so that only one in four configurations of the cable will work
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2022-11-17T17:55:38 < karlp> in other news, rs485 over usb-c sbu lines is working fine..
2022-11-17T17:55:52 < karlp> as long as the downstream facing cables are in the right orientation :)
2022-11-17T17:55:57 < karlp> upstream are free to be rotated :)
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2022-11-17T18:22:19 < karlp> the switches I'm using will probably limit me to about 10-12 devices though, so I should probably switch to lower Ron..
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2022-11-17T18:38:29 < aandrew> karlp> englishman: do you know woodhouse software and electronics?
2022-11-17T18:38:33 < aandrew> whoa there's a blast from the past
2022-11-17T18:39:01 < englishman> heh, would i know them for their product?
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2022-11-17T18:45:39 < karlp> is it aandrew who' in waterloo then?
2022-11-17T18:45:45 < karlp> I thought one of you guys was
2022-11-17T18:46:07 < karlp> in/near
2022-11-17T19:07:31 < aandrew> karlp: yep
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2022-11-17T19:08:17 < aandrew> unless I'm mistaken I met the founder/owner when I was in high school through a friend I met on FidoNet. dude (founder/owner) died in a ... paragliding? skydiving? accident 
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2022-11-17T19:09:52 < karlp> just ran accross them has having registered and paid for a custom ether type for some real time industrial shit.
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2022-11-17T19:24:13 < begriffs> What's a cheap sigrok-compatible logic analyzer that has a sample rate high enough to reliably capture usb 2 fs traffic?
2022-11-17T19:25:23 < karlp> the same ones we said last time? :)
2022-11-17T19:26:56 < begriffs> So someone shared a capture showing that a 24mhz analyzer happened to work, but before I buy it I'm wondering if it's guaranteed to always work for USB FS, or if that was kind of a lucky roll of the dice.
2022-11-17T19:28:38 < begriffs> Given USB runs at 48 mhz, I assumed an accurate sample required a rate of 96mhz.
2022-11-17T19:29:19 < begriffs> With so many factors at play during debugging, I'd like to rest assured that my sampling is reliable. :)
2022-11-17T19:34:07 < braindamage> if you lock on the clock, then you don't need double the sample rate
2022-11-17T19:34:43 < braindamage> in fact, if you were to use periodic sampling unlocked from the clock, you need more than twice the clock rate, due to metastability limitations
2022-11-17T19:35:33 < braindamage> and in fact, nyquist limit applies to bandlimited signals and have a sinc interpolator function, which neither apply to a logic analyser
2022-11-17T19:36:09 < braindamage> if you want to preserve a digital signal you need to keep a bandwith of 2/Trise
2022-11-17T19:37:31 < begriffs> Does the signal analyzer itself lock in on the clock, or does sigrok do that, and then direct the analyzer to sample at the proper times?
2022-11-17T19:39:36 < braindamage> for many it's the former
2022-11-17T19:39:49 < braindamage> it's called trigger conditions
2022-11-17T19:40:10 < begriffs> I guess my main practical question is whether this device will reliably capture USB FS: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801231266798.html
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2022-11-17T19:43:28 < karlp> reliably? no, probably marginal.
2022-11-17T19:43:45 < karlp> sufficiently.... maybe, and ifyou don't own one of them, get one anyway, they're absolutely worth it.
2022-11-17T19:44:01 < ventYl> I stuffed all of my interwebs into rack, finally
2022-11-17T19:45:31 < begriffs> karlp: can you remind me of another device that would work 100% reliably? (Sorry, I lost our previous chat log)
2022-11-17T19:47:41 < zyp> at that price point? doubt it
2022-11-17T19:49:54 < begriffs> It's OK if it costs more. I'm thinking there must be something in between the Saleae price and the rando 24mhz price. :)
2022-11-17T19:51:11 < zyp> have you considered a USB analyzer if your goal is USB capture?
2022-11-17T19:51:36 < zyp> IIRC luna is $150
2022-11-17T19:51:55 < begriffs> Oh I don't know too much about my options or that there is a dedicated thing like that. Let me check that out
2022-11-17T19:52:07 < zyp> https://www.crowdsupply.com/great-scott-gadgets/luna
2022-11-17T19:52:18 < zyp> probably still a few months away from delivery though
2022-11-17T19:54:22 < begriffs> The higher level problem that is motivating me to look for a signal analyzer is that an example libopencm3 program isn't working on my STM32F411CEU6. I think it may be due to an libopencm3 bug, as noted in my comment here: https://github.com/begriffs/stm32f411/blob/main/cdcacm.c#L243-L249
2022-11-17T19:55:06 < begriffs> I added a fix suggested as comments in a github issue, but the fix doesn't work, so I wanted to collect real data to make a bug report or find my own error.
2022-11-17T19:55:46 < zyp> ah, an analyzer isn't really gonna help you with that
2022-11-17T19:56:30 < zyp> that issue is different dwc_otg core versions having different bit definitions in GCCFG
2022-11-17T19:56:40 < zyp> so code that works on some chips doesn't work on others
2022-11-17T19:57:13 < zyp> analyzer won't help because when you get the bits wrong, it simply doesn't enable the bus, and so there's no signals to analyze
2022-11-17T19:57:25 < begriffs> Ohh, so OTG_GCCFG_NOVBUSSENS has the wrong bitmask for my device?
2022-11-17T19:57:45 < zyp> IIRC the NOVBUSSENS bit doesn't exist on all devices
2022-11-17T19:58:15 < zyp> it has a different name and meaning on some devices
2022-11-17T20:01:49 < begriffs> How would I find out the situation for my device? I have a datasheet from ST that is labeled for STM32F411xC and STM32F411xE. Would that tell me somewhere, or is the problem in other components on the "black pill" board?
2022-11-17T20:04:43 < begriffs> I've considered using a more mainstream board, and ditching the weird ones from aliexpress, but I thought I could learn something by debugging the problem, or perhaps help improve libopencm3.
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2022-11-17T22:30:15 < qyx> why didn't I check AN2606 before allocation pins to USART2?
2022-11-17T22:30:27 < qyx> the internal bootloader doesn't support PB6/7
2022-11-17T22:30:30 < qyx> on L010
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2022-11-17T22:45:09 < Steffanx-> Why didn't you check, qyx?
2022-11-17T22:45:35  * qyx dumb
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2022-11-17T23:09:42  * Laurence_b has 169 pixel images out of VL53L1X
2022-11-17T23:09:49 < Laurence_b> actually works quite well
2022-11-17T23:14:51 < qyx> how so
2022-11-17T23:15:05 < qyx> is that the vcsel laser range finder?
2022-11-17T23:15:17 < qyx> *proximity sensor officially
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2022-11-17T23:17:27 < Laurence_b> yeah
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2022-11-17T23:17:54 < Laurence_b> I had to use Weiner deconvolution as min sample size is 4x4 pixels
2022-11-17T23:18:00 < Laurence_b> but that cleans it up well
2022-11-17T23:18:31 < Laurence_b> noise is a bit worse but it can see a collection of different objects on a desk
2022-11-17T23:19:14 < Steffanx-> Y u no show your 13x13 px image?
2022-11-17T23:20:20 < Laurence_b> cuz muh dick
2022-11-17T23:20:27 < Laurence_b> >Weiner
2022-11-17T23:20:46 < Steffanx-> OK, so we call it fake news then
2022-11-17T23:20:59 < Laurence_b> its wurk project
2022-11-17T23:21:21 < Laurence_b> random project to check inside aggregate hoppers for jams
2022-11-17T23:22:18 < Laurence_b> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/pmokKBJGeZ.jpeg
2022-11-17T23:22:22 < Laurence_b> sounds like my jerb
2022-11-17T23:22:23 < Steffanx-> You already said too much then anyway, time for that 13x13 weiner
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2022-11-17T23:57:29 < karlp> feck, jlc now charges more for their other 4l stackups.
--- Day changed pe marras 18 2022
2022-11-18T00:08:48 < karlp> meh, re-adjust for cheap process?
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2022-11-18T00:18:00 < qyx> https://github.com/aykevl/blake2s-micro
2022-11-18T00:18:06 < qyx> let's see
2022-11-18T00:19:37 < qyx> hm, semihosting adds around 3.2 kB to the firmware size
2022-11-18T00:23:07 < rustyaxe> wut
2022-11-18T00:23:34 < rustyaxe> He has a 4x4 px weiner? Poor guy
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2022-11-18T00:43:56 < qyx> my bootloader is 7 kB and it does nothing yet
2022-11-18T00:48:48 < ventYl> taht's almost larger than RTOS kernel
2022-11-18T00:58:17 < qyx> 1100 B after removing printf and semihosting
2022-11-18T00:58:25 < qyx> and it still computes blake2s
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2022-11-18T01:53:24 < Laurence_b> the demiurge!
2022-11-18T01:56:35 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FElQBTg6VMAA1Vel.jpg
2022-11-18T02:05:24 < splud> qyx - for what architecture ?
2022-11-18T02:05:43 < splud> some library functions are obnoxiously large, you can optimize for your use case.
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2022-11-18T02:22:58 < splud> I have links for tech doc searches for Ti, Analog, Maxim (now part of Analog, but still has their own URLS), Linear Technologies (Analog), Microchip
2022-11-18T02:23:18 < splud> Anyone have tech doc search pages for other manufacturers?
2022-11-18T02:23:42 < splud> This is for appnotes and the like
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2022-11-18T04:39:45 < splud> nobody?
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2022-11-18T04:47:24 < splud> meh, no responses because _WRONG_CHAN_.  sorr.
2022-11-18T04:47:27 < splud> sorry.
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2022-11-18T11:06:17 < ventYl> splud: maybe nobody here has nothing to say to this topic
2022-11-18T11:26:24 < mawk> splud: you can probably get the one from ST from this chan
2022-11-18T11:53:03 < jpa-> seems a weird thing to collect anyway
2022-11-18T11:55:13 < drzacek> context?
2022-11-18T11:58:45 < jpa-> splud likes to collect tech doc search pages
2022-11-18T12:13:18 < drzacek> y tho
2022-11-18T12:48:14 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4VJVZ
2022-11-18T12:48:31 < qyx> transmitting {0x55, 0x55} on STM32L0
2022-11-18T12:48:47 < qyx> red is a driver enable signal, yellow is USART2_TX
2022-11-18T12:49:22 < qyx> the second byte definitel doesn't look like 0x55
2022-11-18T12:50:26 < qyx> it looks like 0x95
2022-11-18T12:51:43 < karlp> you still have stop/start bits, but yeah, looks kinda bogus?
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2022-11-18T12:56:19 < qyx> nah works now, missing *
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2022-11-18T13:08:02 < karlp> * you mean, bad pointers in your code?
2022-11-18T13:08:09 < karlp> should used zig rust ada then amirite
2022-11-18T13:16:19 < specing> yes
2022-11-18T13:16:35 < specing> I switched from C to Ada and the amount of bugs went down drastically
2022-11-18T13:28:15 < qyx> that's because your productivity lowered to 20%
2022-11-18T13:34:40 < jpa-> making a language without memory safety problems is trivial, making it useful at the same time is difficult :)
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2022-11-18T14:32:42 < qyx> one hour wasted, Rx was not working, framing error
2022-11-18T14:32:50 < qyx> then I found out 115200 != 9600
2022-11-18T14:33:09 < drzacek> can't be
2022-11-18T14:33:46 < qyx> karlp: do you use resistors on A/B to define their idle state?
2022-11-18T15:17:48 < karlp> yeah, super handy.
2022-11-18T15:23:34 < karlp> just make sure you only have it in one place :)
2022-11-18T15:51:18 < karlp> cute, Fedora Linux 37 drops support for the ARMv7 architecture
2022-11-18T15:53:03 < Xogium> how dumb
2022-11-18T15:53:23 < Xogium> if they had said armv5 I'd have understood
2022-11-18T15:54:27 < karlp> meh, armv7 has been on the way out for a while I kinda get it, though I agree "they" moved very quickly on it.
2022-11-18T15:54:53 < Xogium> not really there are still a ton of sbc that are armv7 :p
2022-11-18T15:57:20 < drzacek> #justrhelthings
2022-11-18T15:58:47 < rustyaxe> yea but who actually runs deadrat distros anyways? :P
2022-11-18T16:00:29 < Xogium> I usually run arch on my desktop. For all my sbc and other boards I just do buildroot
2022-11-18T16:00:39 < Xogium> but still, it's dumb to take out support for something like this
2022-11-18T16:01:00 < karlp> more info here: https://lwn.net/Articles/838807/
2022-11-18T16:01:20 < karlp> arm32 was the only 32bit arch they supported at all anyway, so it's no big deal really to drop it as well :)
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2022-11-18T16:05:12 < fenugrec> who wouldn't like to run linux-6.x on a 80386, eh
2022-11-18T16:05:29 < fenugrec> good old segments and realmode
2022-11-18T16:17:45 < hackkitten> ARMv7 is still found on a lot of lower-end SoCs, but then I guess those are used with platforms that'll happily run an older Linux kernel with Alpine Linux or OpenWRT
2022-11-18T16:18:04 < karlp> yeah, this is just full size desktop distros not supporting them.
2022-11-18T16:18:48 < karlp> they don't have any interest in compiling bazillions of pacakges for the ABI that no-one's realistically using.
2022-11-18T16:18:54 < hackkitten> ARMv7-M is still everywhere, of course :)
2022-11-18T16:19:24 < karlp> and it still runs fedora just as well as it ever did ;)
2022-11-18T16:19:31 < hackkitten> that is true
2022-11-18T16:19:32 < hackkitten> :D
2022-11-18T16:19:54 < hackkitten> there's the STM32 MP1 family, of course
2022-11-18T16:20:13 < hackkitten> Cortex-M & Cortex-A in one package, isn't it?
2022-11-18T16:22:16 < Xogium> indeed
2022-11-18T16:48:49 < qyx> hrmpfh who even runs fedora
2022-11-18T16:49:00  * qyx runs
2022-11-18T17:33:27 < hackkitten> indeed, Arch FTW
2022-11-18T17:33:31  * hackkitten ducks and runs~
2022-11-18T17:37:48 < rustyaxe> seems like a lot of unnecessary sufferign to still be afflicted with systemd. Devuan is the true answer.
2022-11-18T17:38:14 < rustyaxe> arch was beautiful before systemd
2022-11-18T17:39:16 < karlp> systemd's introduction was arrogant and shameful, but it's certainly better than "hurhurh let's writ emore cascading shell scripts for everything"
2022-11-18T17:39:48 < rustyaxe> really openrc and the like had solved the problem long ago
2022-11-18T17:40:38 < rustyaxe> but systemds infestation runs far deeper than the init system and that's the problem. had it just stuck to mucking up the init process, i probably could have accepted it. But it has it's filthy 2.5 million lines of code fingers in far too many parts of the systemd to be trustworthy
2022-11-18T17:40:48 < rustyaxe> of the system
2022-11-18T17:41:30 < Xogium> I always hated shell scripts, especially booting with them
2022-11-18T17:41:37 < Xogium> so I'm personally all for systemd
2022-11-18T17:42:31 < Xogium> I'm never gonna say it doesn't do thing it shouldn't do, but the advantages for me are insane
2022-11-18T17:43:21 < Xogium> programming with only tts is a pain in the... so yeah, when you miss a good 3 quarters of the symbols used, I'd definitely prefer some language like systemd's
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2022-11-18T18:12:56 < hackkitten> OpenRC is pretty nifty, I don't mind it all when I use Alpine
2022-11-18T18:13:42 < hackkitten> Systemd is really complicated, and not easy to use without RTFM'ng the whole FM first
2022-11-18T18:18:51 < Xogium> it's also about speed of booting in my case
2022-11-18T18:19:15 < Xogium> when you do embedded linux sometimes you gotta boot fast, and yeah... Shell scripts just don't cut it
2022-11-18T18:20:14 < Xogium> I tried sysvinit, I tried upstart, I tried openrc, openrc was actually one of the worse, taking a full 25 seconds to get the system going to a login shell
2022-11-18T18:21:14 < rustyaxe> 25 seconds? Something was terribly wrong. I go from refind (EFI loader) to an xfce desktop in about 10 seconds on a dell old latitude
2022-11-18T18:21:25 < Xogium> systemd, for some reason, took 12 seconds to do this
2022-11-18T18:21:26 < rustyaxe> 10 year old dell latitude
2022-11-18T18:22:40 < Xogium> maybe it is only because I misconfigured openrc, I'll definitely say this is a possibility since I never used it before then
2022-11-18T18:23:20 < Xogium> I even tried the parallel launch mode which was speciically still marked as experimental
2022-11-18T18:23:48 < Xogium> this isn't the fastest board in the world, but still
2022-11-18T18:24:23 < Xogium> the stm32mp157f SoC in there runs 2 cores at 800 mhz and has 512 mb of ram available
2022-11-18T18:27:09 < Xogium> but for an experiment I ran a minimal systemd on a board, with a lot of optional components not buit. It ran on 64 mb of ram :D
2022-11-18T18:27:21 < Xogium> booted to a shell in about 5 seconds
2022-11-18T18:27:52 < Xogium> whole system used about 12 mb of ram
2022-11-18T18:28:09 < Xogium> that was fun
2022-11-18T18:28:21 < qyx> 2.0.1 rev of my stm32mp1 board arrived today
2022-11-18T18:28:34 < Xogium> qyx: nice, works ?
2022-11-18T18:28:38 < qyx> idk, PCB only
2022-11-18T18:28:44 < Xogium> ah !
2022-11-18T18:28:57 < Xogium> so you're going to solder things yourself ?
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2022-11-18T18:31:00 < splud> ventYl - this was for ##electronics, I was on wrong tab when I posted my query.  Was pertinent to collecting some resources to share with others 
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2022-11-18T18:48:10 < benishor> update on my i2c problem from yesterday
2022-11-18T18:48:12 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/HiJiaAI
2022-11-18T18:48:25 < benishor> there's that fields in the bottom left corner: I2CF: 1
2022-11-18T18:48:40 < benishor> that means I detected a stale I2C bus and I successfully recovered
2022-11-18T18:49:15 < benishor> the way I do that is: 1) disable peripheral, 2) wait until really disabled, 3) clock SCL a couple of times at low speed, 4) enable peripheral
2022-11-18T18:50:01 < benishor> seems to work so far
2022-11-18T18:50:13 < benishor> thanks for all the good ideas!
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2022-11-18T21:31:49 < drzacek> hello there
2022-11-18T21:32:10 < drzacek> stm32cubeide user here: the .settings directory - how important is it for the project?
2022-11-18T21:33:00 < drzacek> I'm trying to cram my project into git and trying to decide what should be included and what should rather be .gitignored
2022-11-18T21:37:21 < aandrew> benishor: I2C is notoriously bad for this shit
2022-11-18T21:37:35 < aandrew> glad you're able to recover it, wiggling clock a bunch of times is the usual "fix"
2022-11-18T21:38:01 < aandrew> I wonder if it's bad SI that causes a slave to get stuck or bad peripheral on the master missing a clock
2022-11-18T21:41:54 < drzacek> that stm32cubeide.project.prefs file is what wonders me, cause it doesn't seem to have any usable text information, looks like some hash
2022-11-18T21:48:44 < benishor> aandrew: yeah, I'm clueless about why that happens. maybe I should try and reduce the traffic on the bus
2022-11-18T21:48:52 < benishor> see whether that makes any difference
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2022-11-18T22:05:26 < Laurence_b> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-63675849
2022-11-18T22:05:29 < Laurence_b> based musk
2022-11-18T22:05:33 < Laurence_b> kill twitter with fire
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2022-11-20T04:00:20 < bitmask> what is wrong with me... Ive been exercising for 4 months, looking for real jobs for a couple weeks and just started working part time...
2022-11-20T04:00:44 < bitmask> i must be depressed
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2022-11-20T08:43:45 < jpa-> bitmask: when you spin a soft wheel against gears for long enough time, it becomes a cog
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2022-11-20T12:33:56 < Steffanx-> Awh your encouragement didn't help jpa- 
2022-11-20T12:37:45 < BrainDamage> said cog will also wear out and become another soft wheel with smaller diameter of the cog teeth, and stop interacting entirely with the rest
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2022-11-20T19:08:01 < qyx> https://blog.adacore.com/doubling-the-performance-of-sparknacl-again
2022-11-20T19:08:03 < qyx> this is great
2022-11-20T19:08:14 < qyx> https://github.com/rod-chapman/SPARKNaCl
2022-11-20T19:08:21 < qyx> although it does contain "adacore", so idk
2022-11-20T19:15:51 < qyx> this one too https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/ada_sparknacl/attachments/slides/4848/export/events/attachments/ada_sparknacl/slides/4848/sparknacl_fosdem2022.pdf
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2022-11-20T22:15:46 < karlp> jlc assembly rotation question, if anyone knows: the 3d preview has a diode with the bar at the "-" end, 
2022-11-20T22:16:04 < karlp> should I assume that the cathode/bar is the "-" end for leds as well?
2022-11-20T22:16:13 < karlp> (in which case they all need to be rotated)
2022-11-20T22:24:12 < zyp> doesn't leds show a + on the anode?
2022-11-20T22:24:24 < karlp> yeah, I think so, so yeah, rotating them all.
2022-11-20T22:24:40 < karlp> I wish I could plugin my own positional file generator as easily as a bom generator
2022-11-20T22:24:53 < karlp> there's a few different jlc plugins for kicad, and they all suck differently.
2022-11-20T22:25:12 < karlp> suck/do things differentyly, and require you have set things up their way
2022-11-20T22:25:20 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NVsqa.png <- both - and +
2022-11-20T22:25:48 < zyp> but that's old, saw the preview was updated last I did a board, but that one didn't have any leds
2022-11-20T22:27:48 < karlp> yeah, I _think_ this is correct now, with - to the silk bar, and matching the cathode pins from the DS.
2022-11-20T22:27:54 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bASU3.png and now with the pic
2022-11-20T22:28:13 < karlp> think I'm going to have to rip off one of these other scrits to get just the position file bit.
2022-11-20T22:29:05 < zyp> is that a third party thing for kicad?
2022-11-20T22:29:18 < karlp> yeah, there's a coupel of them 
2022-11-20T22:29:30 < lemmi> karlp: i think they updated their documentation somewhere which explains what they mean with + and -
2022-11-20T22:31:28 < karlp> yeah, they did https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/99-does-the-red-dot-means-pin-1-in-the-placement-previewer has some good bits
2022-11-20T22:32:00 < qyx> what the hell that sparknacl is not C
2022-11-20T22:32:15 < karlp> the spark in sparknacl didn't give that away?
2022-11-20T22:32:20 < karlp> or that it was from ada people?
2022-11-20T22:33:14 < qyx> tbh I don't even know what spark is
2022-11-20T22:33:43 < qyx> I omewhat expected they did rewrite the lib to readable C and added some formal proofing code
2022-11-20T22:34:09 < qyx> but no, it is in some weird language nobody uses
2022-11-20T22:48:41 < karlp> ok, finally pushed the button on this hub again :)
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2022-11-20T23:18:17 < qyx> 3rd time?
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2022-11-21T07:58:30 < jpa-> qyx: lol @ taking hours to realize that sparknacl is ada :)
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2022-11-21T11:30:44 < Laurence_b> Breaking news: The England players are reportedly having a big team meeting to discuss whether or not to take the knee
2022-11-21T11:42:47 < Laurence_b> what the... https://nitter.net/paulturner2012/status/1593948542439084032#m
2022-11-21T11:43:12 < Laurence_b> inb4 everyone in the video is a troll
2022-11-21T11:58:36 < karlp> qyx: yeah, third.  second I got pcbs, but never assembled, I sat down with it and realised I was missing passives, and found a (very minor) error and decided to just redo some thigns to suit JLC assembly instead.
2022-11-21T11:59:17 < karlp> changes from the last assembled board are: fixes to shit to make it actually work, and the 5V/8A buck supply, which will be fun to test out.
2022-11-21T11:59:30 < karlp> I promised myself not to buy a bunch of usb load testers though until I had it working.
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2022-11-21T18:37:25 < mawk> PaulFertser: can I extract an tcl array in a nice format for python to read?
2022-11-21T18:38:03 < PaulFertser> mawk: hm, it's been so long since I used Tcl anyhow, can't answer sorry
2022-11-21T18:38:16 < mawk> o
2022-11-21T18:38:18 < mawk> thanks
2022-11-21T18:38:27 < karlp> iirc there's some python rpc shits in the contrib dir of oocd that uses it.
2022-11-21T18:38:34 < mawk> ah nice thanks
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2022-11-21T21:10:45 < Laurence_b> make England straight again
2022-11-21T21:16:38 < PaulFertser> Did Laurence_b just suffered from buggery?
2022-11-21T21:17:00 < Laurence_b> the Sharia law ended the homo armbands
2022-11-21T21:17:17 < PaulFertser> You're a football fan?
2022-11-21T21:17:31 < Steffanx-> Soccer.
2022-11-21T21:17:56 < Steffanx-> Laurence_b strikes me as a true British hooligan.
2022-11-21T21:18:06 < Laurence_b> yup
2022-11-21T21:18:16 < PaulFertser> Soccer is how uneducated US people call football.
2022-11-21T21:19:11 < PaulFertser> Time to make a Millwall brick.
2022-11-21T21:20:13 < Steffanx-> Was it necessary to add "uneducated" to that sentence PaulFertser  :P
2022-11-21T21:21:18 < PaulFertser> Steffanx-: /me is bad at trolling, sorry
2022-11-21T21:21:36 < Steffanx-> Haha no problem 
2022-11-21T21:31:13 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1594500655724609536#m
2022-11-21T21:31:16 < Laurence_b> keeek wtf
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2022-11-21T21:55:55 < PaulFertser> Will twitter collapse, what do you think Laurence_b ?
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2022-11-21T22:15:01 < zyp> karlp, does the power led on your t3b blink?
2022-11-21T22:15:55 < zyp> I finally cleaned place on the tool shelf for mine yesterday, and now I'm noticing a blue blink from the power button in the peripheral vision every few minutes or so
2022-11-21T22:16:03 < zyp> while it's off, I should specify
2022-11-21T22:17:27 < zyp> it's kinda like if power was leaking into the supply cap until it gets enough voltage to wake up, and then the increased power draw on the cap instantly discharges it again
2022-11-21T22:19:40 < rustyaxe> zyp: you can dim it with a light layer of nail polish paint
2022-11-21T22:20:34 < zyp> or just open it up and disconnect the LED if I just wanted to ignore it
2022-11-21T22:20:53 < zyp> I'm just wondering if this is a common issue, or if mine is somehow faulty
2022-11-21T22:21:36 < rustyaxe> Dunno. I just suggest it as sometimes the diag LEDs *ARE* helpful.. So subduing them works wonders
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2022-11-21T22:50:35 < Steffanx-> So watching soccerball rustyaxe ?
2022-11-21T22:50:44 < Steffanx-> You must support the US soccerballers.
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2022-11-21T23:06:42 < rustyaxe> Wut?
2022-11-21T23:07:00 < rustyaxe> I had no idea it was a sportsball contest today
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2022-11-21T23:14:05 < karlp> yeah, it does a very slow thing occasionally, like a fade in and then out again occasionally.
2022-11-21T23:14:34 < karlp> I only rarely notice it though, 
2022-11-21T23:14:52 < karlp> have you been thoguh all the menus for it?
2022-11-21T23:15:22 < karlp> in other news, I love it everytime I turn it for "just being hot already"
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2022-11-21T23:34:05 < karlp> fucking fedex with their "customr not available or business closed" bullshit again
2022-11-21T23:55:08 < qyx> our fedex is great, contrary to our ups-clone
2022-11-21T23:55:40 < qyx> karlp: I bought 40 pcs of 10R power resistors for that purpose
2022-11-21T23:57:55 < karlp> yeah, our fedex is the worst of the bunch.
2022-11-21T23:58:15 < karlp> 40 resistors for what?
2022-11-21T23:58:26 < qyx> for 5 V load testing
2022-11-21T23:58:26 < karlp> oh, bunch of usb load testers?
2022-11-21T23:58:38 < karlp> yeah, but then I'm building a bunch of shit testers
2022-11-21T23:59:09 < karlp> I'm more tossing up between: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002907973669.html and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917594486.html
2022-11-21T23:59:13 < qyx> I am still determining if it is feasible to build a testing matrix
2022-11-21T23:59:33 < qyx> like 4x16 or so for 4-wire resistance measurement too
2022-11-21T23:59:40 < karlp> if that first cheap one had a usb-b anything instead of just the male usb-a it would be mroe appealing.
2022-11-21T23:59:50 < karlp> seeing as my design uses dual stacked ports.
2022-11-21T23:59:54 < zyp> karlp, anything interesting in the menus?
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2022-11-22T00:00:08 < karlp> zyp: I dunno, led isn't bothering me, I was asking uyou ;)
2022-11-22T00:00:32 < qyx> the seocnd one looks pro
2022-11-22T00:00:36 < zyp> I doubted it was a software thing, seems like a design oversight
2022-11-22T00:00:57 < karlp> yeah, I have one of the second one, works fine, but I kinda want like 6 more of them, and that's not quite as cheap price wise.
2022-11-22T00:01:00 < qyx> LM317 oh god
2022-11-22T00:01:02 < karlp> but still, not much.
2022-11-22T00:01:13 < karlp> and more sane having their own displays on each one.
2022-11-22T00:01:29 < karlp> if the hub works fine, I'll probably end up just buying them..
2022-11-22T00:02:05 < karlp> I know it's come up before, but has anyone seen any other options like this? https://www.tindie.com/products/petl/usb-c-cable-tester-c2c-caberqu/
2022-11-22T00:02:06 < zyp> oh, that looks neat, ordering
2022-11-22T00:02:18 < karlp> it's in stock, so i'm thinking of getting one.
2022-11-22T00:02:31 < karlp> are you talkingabout the hd25/hd35 testers?
2022-11-22T00:02:38 < zyp> yeah, just ordered a hd35
2022-11-22T00:03:07 < karlp> yeah, it works just fine.  (it doesn't do any pd shits though, even though it has a type-c plug)
2022-11-22T00:05:35 < karlp> lol, here's someone on tindie reselling ali shits https://www.tindie.com/products/icstation/electronic-load-tester-35w-5a-lcd-display-13414/
2022-11-22T00:09:21 < qyx> yeah but ships from china
2022-11-22T00:09:58 < karlp> meh, tindie can't process my card. such pro
2022-11-22T00:10:13 < zyp> qyx, so just dropshipping?
2022-11-22T00:10:34 < karlp> opnly one I can find on ali is this garbage: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004320594574.html
2022-11-22T00:11:15 < zyp> what are you gonna test cables for?
2022-11-22T00:11:24 < karlp> what's actually wired.
2022-11-22T00:11:44 < karlp> I'm doing this insane rs485 over SBU shit
2022-11-22T00:12:48 < zyp> as far as I understand/remember the spec, there's only two conformant options for C-C cables; either all signals are wired or only dp/dm/cc/vbus/gnd
2022-11-22T00:13:31 < zyp> and at least for the cables I've got, it's pretty obvious which ones have the four SS lanes and which ones doesn't
2022-11-22T00:15:00 < karlp> yeah, the ones I have that have SS style markings work, the ones that don't... don't.
2022-11-22T00:15:31 < karlp> I still find it very odd that the super cheap common _connectors_ (receptacles at least) always have dm/dp/cc/vbus/gnd/sbu,
2022-11-22T00:15:42 < karlp> but there's no cable that goes with that, anywhere as far as I can find.
2022-11-22T00:16:05 < karlp> full SS cables are way stiffer than I'd like.  with all those extra wires inside :)
2022-11-22T00:20:55 < zyp> as far as I know, there's only two common uses for SBU; analog audio in audio accessory mode and AUX in DP alternate mode
2022-11-22T00:21:22 < zyp> and the former typically doesn't use C-C cables at all and the latter needs the SS lanes
2022-11-22T00:21:49 < karlp> yeah, still, a bunch of vendors eastern and western putting SBU pins on all their connectors :)
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2022-11-22T00:22:04 < zyp> receptacles probably mainly only have SBU because they're directly opposite the CC pins, and they want to keep the design symmetrical
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2022-11-22T05:00:22 < machinehum> fucking onsemi
2022-11-22T05:00:25 < machinehum> Useless support
2022-11-22T05:02:50 < machinehum> I have this dimmer chip... mains device
2022-11-22T05:03:53 < machinehum> There's an input pin.... the voltage at the pin controls the dimming of the output. It's for dimming lights. When the chip powers on if the voltage is over .5V things work fine but if it's 0V shit doesn't work even if you raise the pin above 0.5
2022-11-22T05:03:59 < machinehum> How does that even make sense
2022-11-22T05:04:26 < machinehum> It's latching itself out or something
2022-11-22T05:04:52 < machinehum> If you short the pin to GND it also won't work afterwards
2022-11-22T05:04:58 < machinehum> like what the hell
2022-11-22T05:05:19 < machinehum> The pin is a current source... maybe that has something to do with it
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2022-11-22T08:47:35 < jpa-> machinehum: i guess your point is just to rant, considering you don't even mention the part number?
2022-11-22T08:56:13 < qyx> isn't it dual pirpose pwm/analol dimming pin?
2022-11-22T08:56:33 < qyx> doesn't it change to pwm mode in thatcase?
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2022-11-22T13:00:30 < Laurence_b> any ideas what could cause this error?
2022-11-22T13:00:32 < Laurence_b> malloc(): invalid size (unsorted)
2022-11-22T13:00:53 < Laurence_b>  in __GI___libc_malloc (bytes=32) at malloc.c:3058
2022-11-22T13:01:36 < specing> Laurence_b: open malloc.c at line 3058?
2022-11-22T13:01:38 < karlp> valgrind....
2022-11-22T13:01:52 < Laurence_b> ok
2022-11-22T13:01:58 < karlp> opening malloc won't tell you anything useful, you know that specing...
2022-11-22T13:02:06 < karlp> very lolreence quality answer though, I like it :)
2022-11-22T13:02:43 < Laurence_b> corrupted meme-ory?
2022-11-22T13:03:00 < specing> karlp: why wouldn't it? The question is what could cause it, and the answer lies in malloc.c. If the question was where the cause could be, then the answer may have been valgrind
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2022-11-22T13:06:26 < Laurence_b> hmm valgrind may have helped, thanks
2022-11-22T13:06:54 < jpa-> it's true that reading malloc.c will tell exactly what kind of corruption has happened, allowing to set e.g. watchpoint on it
2022-11-22T13:10:33 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/CDG144f5
2022-11-22T13:10:43 < Laurence_b> why is that an error?
2022-11-22T13:12:22 < jpa-> you are writing past the allocated block?
2022-11-22T13:12:54 < jpa-> "0 bytes after" means immediately past the buffer
2022-11-22T13:12:59 < Laurence_b> oh ok
2022-11-22T13:13:01 < Laurence_b> wtf
2022-11-22T13:13:40 < zyp> you're trying to allocate exact space for a string and forgot about the null terminator?
2022-11-22T13:14:36 < Laurence_b> no, because there are writes going further past the end
2022-11-22T13:15:31 < Laurence_b> hmm maybe length calculation is just wrong
2022-11-22T13:15:51 < zyp> maybe you forgot to allocate room for spaces
2022-11-22T13:16:11 < Streaker> or a bad terminating condition in a loop
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2022-11-22T13:16:56 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/ESf2Jnpm
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2022-11-22T13:19:04 < jpa-> zyp: looks like he remembered the spaces this time, just put them all in the beginning of line
2022-11-22T13:19:52 < Laurence_b> I'll put a watchpoint on innerstr
2022-11-22T13:20:11 < c10ud> is that c++ after brexit?
2022-11-22T13:20:35 < jpa-> surprisingly many libc's don't bother optimizing realloc() anymore, instead just copying the whole content to new allocation
2022-11-22T13:22:22 < qyx> Laurence_b please
2022-11-22T13:22:30 < qyx> there shall be a space after if
2022-11-22T13:22:37 < qyx> also around =
2022-11-22T13:22:49 < qyx> also after // if you use it
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2022-11-22T13:23:56 < jpa-> Laurence_b: remember that the n in strncat() limits the number of bytes taken from input, not the number of bytes written to output
2022-11-22T13:24:34 < jpa-> so if you verify that output can contain to_alloc bytes, and then proceed to copy that many bytes to it, it fails as soon as the innerstr is not initially empty
2022-11-22T13:24:54 < Laurence_b> oh sheeet
2022-11-22T13:25:00 < Laurence_b> I didnt know that, thanks
2022-11-22T13:25:07 < Laurence_b> that explains the bug
2022-11-22T13:25:59 < jpa-> but on modern platforms, your code will be faster if you just malloc(4096) or similar to start with
2022-11-22T13:26:23 < jpa-> you can then copy to smaller allocation at the end if you want
2022-11-22T13:30:11 < Laurence_b> yeah its running on rpi but it might need to run on micros in future
2022-11-22T13:31:55 < karlp> lol "zyp | maybe you forgot to allocate room for spaces"
2022-11-22T13:34:50 < qyx> lol I didn't get it
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2022-11-22T15:29:51 < benishor> anyone here actually managed to integrate tinyusb with a cubemx generated project?
2022-11-22T15:33:24 < rustyaxe> no i never could get cubemx to actually work :P
2022-11-22T15:37:13 < benishor> =)
2022-11-22T15:37:24 < benishor> I get some linking fuckages
2022-11-22T15:37:39 < benishor> multiple definitions for dcd_int_enable et. co
2022-11-22T15:39:28 < benishor> I suspect I am missing a define somewhere
2022-11-22T16:06:21 < benishor> fucking finally! leaving this here for posterity: https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/issues/1612#issuecomment-1223837048
2022-11-22T16:17:55 < benishor> everything compiles beautifully now, but nothing works ..
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2022-11-22T18:03:48 < karlp> fucking quaktel doesn't work again.
2022-11-22T18:03:56 < karlp> my notes are "do this incantation to make it reset properlyt"
2022-11-22T18:04:01 < karlp> and it's not doing the thing now.
2022-11-22T18:04:03  * karlp grumbles
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2022-11-22T18:20:28 < benishor> works naw, haha!
2022-11-22T18:20:30 < benishor> osom
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2022-11-22T19:16:00 < mawk> I did a python script that parses my C code for the eeprom_t structure that defines the settings I have in eeprom
2022-11-22T19:16:15 < mawk> then you can interact with it on the commandline to set or get any of these settings
2022-11-22T19:16:25 < mawk> using a openocd server running in the background, through the TCL RPC port
2022-11-22T19:16:36 < mawk> using libclang for the parsing
2022-11-22T19:16:53 < mawk> and asyncio for the network stuff
2022-11-22T19:21:03 < mawk> I handle bitfields, nested structures, unions, anonymous unions/structures, array types
2022-11-22T19:21:11 < mawk> pretty much everything 
2022-11-22T19:23:00 < aandrew> hm interesting
2022-11-22T19:23:51 < aandrew> so it's a script that basically figures out what is where in eeprom based on the struct, and allows you to edit eeprom contents in a way that the c program can understand
2022-11-22T19:24:34 < mawk> C parsing code: https://hastebin.com/ekuxanabaf.py
2022-11-22T19:24:40 < mawk> openocd interface code: https://hastebin.com/ranalefuqo.py
2022-11-22T19:25:04 < mawk> edit eeprom contents live on a chip connected to the pc aandrew 
2022-11-22T19:25:05 < mawk> through openocd
2022-11-22T19:25:39 < mawk> I can also dump the eeprom layout with the mapping between parameter and byte offset
2022-11-22T19:25:47 < mawk> when you want to modify it by hand
2022-11-22T19:26:56 < mawk> for instance on the commandline I do « set apn "steffanx.vodafone.nl" » and when I reset my mcu the eeprom->apn setting will have changed
2022-11-22T19:28:01 < mawk> I had to learn a bit of tcl magic to do this thing, especially on the part about getting values from tcl into python, when reading memory
2022-11-22T19:28:15 < mawk> given the weird way tcl encodes arrays
2022-11-22T19:28:39 < mawk> {'a': 1, 'b': 2} is {a 1 b 2}
2022-11-22T19:39:56 < karlp> the import thing to remember in tcl is that everything is a fucking string.
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2022-11-22T19:42:05 < aandrew> interesting
2022-11-22T19:42:15 < jpa-> https://pypi.org/project/openocd/  last time i needed to do similar i used this
2022-11-22T19:45:54 < mawk> yeah it's a pretty nice package
2022-11-22T19:47:15 < mawk> I did mine in async style but it wouldn't be too hard to adapt this package to asyncio, by running the blocking stuff in a thread
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2022-11-22T19:50:29 < karlp> https://docs.python.org/3/library/cmd.html is pretty neat for implementing interactive thigns like that too.
2022-11-22T19:50:51 < mawk> ah I didn't know about this module
2022-11-22T19:50:53 < mawk> yeah that looks cool
2022-11-22T19:51:12 < mawk> for now I just do shlex.split(input('>>> ')) in a loop
2022-11-22T19:51:27 < karlp> yeah, I saw, that's why I suggested this for next time :)
2022-11-22T19:51:41 < karlp> cmd autoprovides completion and help and shit
2022-11-22T19:51:48 < mawk> shlex splits the input string as if it was a bash command
2022-11-22T19:51:49 < mawk> ah nice
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2022-11-22T20:05:23 < mawk> but my arr_set function is too fast for the chip, it gives an error half the time
2022-11-22T20:05:31 < mawk> and doesn't write completely the data
2022-11-22T20:06:05 < mawk> it says « Error: array2mem: Write @ 0x08080300, w=4, cnt=13, failed »; whereas if I do a bunch of mww commands one after the other it's okay
2022-11-22T20:08:38 < zyp> mawk, what do you do about versioning the eeprom layout?
2022-11-22T20:09:18 < mawk> I have reserved fields I use to add new settings
2022-11-22T20:09:30 < mawk> but apart from this there's no safety or anything, the develop has to be careful when changing or adding settings
2022-11-22T20:10:32 < mawk> there's a "settingsVersion" field but I don't think we ever changed it
2022-11-22T20:12:33 < zyp> I've thought about using protobuf for stuff like that
2022-11-22T20:13:38  * rustyaxe tries to wash off the filthy feeling caused by doing SIP over WebSockets over ipip tunnel over wireguard VPN
2022-11-22T20:14:20 < zyp> especially if you're doing eeprom emulation in flash, since you can just append to a protobuf to overwrite contents
2022-11-22T20:14:30 < mawk> right, yeah
2022-11-22T20:14:38 < mawk> that might be a good fit indeed
2022-11-22T20:16:16 < mawk> with the current system here everything that deals with eeprom settings has to be kept in sync, so we have python ctypes definition somewhere for the layout, then some custom PHP settings generator with a json file explaining the layout, and some other places
2022-11-22T20:16:24 < mawk> and it's often not in sync and breaks things
2022-11-22T20:21:52 < karlp> I used a byte in the eeprom as the structure version...
2022-11-22T20:22:04 < karlp> and then also tried to just add to the end, and allowed plenty of space..
2022-11-22T20:22:26 < karlp> I'm only up to v2 after implementing that though.
2022-11-22T20:23:04 < karlp> but that's with real eeprom, not emulation stuff.
2022-11-22T20:24:22 < mawk> well we never incremented the version byte, even when changing stuff; I guess it will increment when we have a breaking change
2022-11-22T20:26:08 < zyp> as long as the full eeprom is erased to a known value and this value is a reasonable default, you can just add fields without incrementing version
2022-11-22T20:26:47 < zyp> if not, you'll have to treat it as a new version since the new fields needs to be initialized
2022-11-22T20:27:57 < mawk> yeah
2022-11-22T20:28:14 < mawk> yeah when we add fields we use the value "0" for default
2022-11-22T20:28:22 < mawk> then nothing changes between two firmware versions with the same settings
2022-11-22T20:28:26 < mawk> and the CRC doesn't change either
2022-11-22T20:28:34 < zyp> at work I think we typically have a major/minor version, where minor changes are stuff like appends that just needs reinig, and major changes are stuff that breaks the layout and requires a full erase and reinit
2022-11-22T20:31:11 < mawk> right
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2022-11-22T20:52:56 < machinehum> jpa-: qyx: Yes just ranting but if anyone has any ideas I would be thrilled FL5160
2022-11-22T20:53:34 < machinehum> qyx: It's a analog in pin, the PWM is converted to a voltage by LPF
2022-11-22T20:54:15 < machinehum> To be completely honest, I think on's chip is busted
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2022-11-22T22:54:05 < qyx> oh fl5160 rings a bell
2022-11-22T22:54:21 < qyx> I used 3 FL's in my life, none worked
2022-11-22T22:55:21 < qyx> some active pfc one, QR flyback and a LED driver, but it was about 10y ago when I was dumb
2022-11-22T22:55:50 < qyx> although..
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2022-11-22T23:02:29 < machinehum> Maybe in 10 years I will be smart
2022-11-22T23:02:46 < machinehum> And not use bullshit FL* shit from on
2022-11-22T23:03:20 < machinehum> It's brutal, I just need this one thing to work for a client, but I'm completely at the mercy of this stupid component
2022-11-22T23:03:47 < machinehum> It's not like a buck supply or something where I can simply go to something else
2022-11-22T23:04:11 < machinehum> If this doesn't work I'll have to go to a discreet solution
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2022-11-22T23:36:34 < zyp> machinehum, got a schematic?
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--- Day changed ke marras 23 2022
2022-11-23T00:03:50 < qyx> idk but it seems like you reversed DIM control and DIM mode
2022-11-23T00:04:27 < zyp> or fucked up low power mode
2022-11-23T00:05:05 < qyx> yeah
2022-11-23T00:12:35 < zyp> machinehum, unrelated, but if I'm mathing right, the 10µA source will charge C3 to 100mV minimum
2022-11-23T00:13:04 < zyp> so you might want to redo that part if you want to be able to turn it completely off
2022-11-23T00:14:51 < zyp> I'd also try closing JP4 to rule out problems with low power mode
2022-11-23T00:19:05 < machinehum> Wait what
2022-11-23T00:19:59 < machinehum> I closed JP4, that was the first thing it did
2022-11-23T00:20:08 < machinehum> I did
2022-11-23T00:20:11 < machinehum> It didn't help
2022-11-23T00:20:27 < machinehum> I think my DIM control and DIM mode are correct
2022-11-23T00:20:45 < machinehum> And yeah I'll totally change C3
2022-11-23T00:20:59 < zyp> it's R10 that needs to change, not C3
2022-11-23T00:21:11 < machinehum> Right, sorry R10
2022-11-23T00:22:11 < machinehum> Right now I'm feeding a voltage from a bench supply into pin2 using TP1. When the supply if off and I power on the board, and I turn on the supply I'll get no output. However if I turn on the supply before powering on the board it works as expected
2022-11-23T00:22:43 < machinehum> Which is... obviously unideal
2022-11-23T00:22:51 < zyp> first page of the datasheet says «The pulse width can be user programmable with either an external resistor or 0 to 10 V DC signal or controlled by a µP with a logic signal.» but nowhere else does it mention that logic signal
2022-11-23T00:23:18 < machinehum> What logic signal?
2022-11-23T00:25:57 < qyx> hard to say, it is on the 8th line
2022-11-23T00:27:09 < machinehum> Maybe it means PWM...?
2022-11-23T00:28:41 < zyp> yeah, in which case it'd make sense for it to latch that at POR, which would be consistent with the behavior you see
2022-11-23T00:28:52 < zyp> but it's weird the datasheet doesn't document that better if that's the case
2022-11-23T00:30:01 < machinehum> This is a reply from onsemi https://imgur.com/a/YTIQ7JH
2022-11-23T00:30:12 < machinehum> However to be honest, I have no idea what he's talking about
2022-11-23T00:31:02 < machinehum> I don't know why he's talking about the DIM_mode
2022-11-23T00:31:06 < karlp> if you're going to discuss this in public, can we make the schematic public so we can all play along?
2022-11-23T00:31:16 < machinehum> Sure
2022-11-23T00:31:27 < machinehum> https://i.imgur.com/zF1To0i.png
2022-11-23T00:31:33 < karlp> takk
2022-11-23T00:31:49 < machinehum> I shouldn't have to be too cagey about those they don't reveal anything special
2022-11-23T00:32:17 < karlp> we'll just pretend we don't know anything else about you, we're all guaranteed irc EE pros here.
2022-11-23T00:33:25 < qyx> he probably exchanged dim_mode and dim_control too
2022-11-23T00:33:44 < qyx> I mean the TI guy
2022-11-23T00:35:17 < machinehum> Yeah I think it was a typo
2022-11-23T00:35:25 < fenugrec> heh why is your nmos  not driving the opto's cathode
2022-11-23T00:36:04 < machinehum> karlp: lol
2022-11-23T00:37:26 < qyx> oh yes waht
2022-11-23T00:37:36 < qyx> the opto driver is very nonstandard
2022-11-23T00:37:45 < qyx> does it even work
2022-11-23T00:37:51 < qyx> it doesn't have any power
2022-11-23T00:38:20 < qyx> aha JP2 shorted and the rest is DNP
2022-11-23T00:38:32 < fenugrec> yea, it's still drawn that way though...
2022-11-23T00:39:33 < machinehum> The FCX45* and R6 are populated
2022-11-23T00:40:07 < machinehum> SFH61* populated, but bench supply connected between TP1 and pin5 (GND)
2022-11-23T00:40:21 < machinehum> But yes, JP4 shorted
2022-11-23T00:41:31 < BrainDamage> I hope the +5V supply is fully floating compared to mains
2022-11-23T00:41:41 < machinehum> BrainDamage: yes
2022-11-23T00:41:51 < machinehum> That is generated from an isolated supply
2022-11-23T00:42:00 < BrainDamage> the HV side too?
2022-11-23T00:42:12 < machinehum> No
2022-11-23T00:42:31 < machinehum> +5VP is generated from the FL5160
2022-11-23T00:42:54 < BrainDamage> ok, then that is floating, good enough
2022-11-23T00:43:30 < BrainDamage> otherwise, I would've forseen the optobjt blow up
2022-11-23T00:44:06 < machinehum> +5VP is generated from FL5160, from mains, so I don't think it's flaoting
2022-11-23T00:44:28 < BrainDamage> it's floating as in, it floats above the gnd ref
2022-11-23T00:44:39 < machinehum> Oh, yeah
2022-11-23T00:45:42 < zyp> machinehum, the onsemi reply is typical «I didn't have time to read into all the details you wrote so here's a bullshit reply unrelated to your problem»
2022-11-23T00:46:04 < machinehum> zyp: Yup
2022-11-23T00:46:44 < machinehum> I'm trying to get this escalated within on, but got three bounced oOo fuck
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2022-11-23T01:21:50 < bitmask> I spent way too much time on these banker box labels: https://i.imgur.com/DXLq8XR.jpg
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2022-11-23T01:36:19 < machinehum> Nice
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2022-11-23T01:58:26 < machinehum> I wonder if the overcurrent is tripping
2022-11-23T01:58:31 < machinehum> On boot somehow
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2022-11-23T02:17:57 < catphish> maths is hard :(
2022-11-23T02:22:12 < hexo_> bitmask: very nice
2022-11-23T02:22:48 < bitmask> hah i dont know if id go that far but thanks :P
2022-11-23T02:23:50 < catphish> today i'm trying to understand JANUS, a digital underwater communications protocol, it has a very confusingly documented frequency hopping setup
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2022-11-23T04:26:54 < fenugrec> I have a notion that it should be possible to do some amount of code profiling on M0 cores by sampling PC (since there is no SWO, no ITM, no cycle counter...) ; what tools would support this ? segger ozone doesn't do PC-sampling AFAIK
2022-11-23T04:27:02 < fenugrec> oh maybe openocd
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2022-11-23T05:04:31 < fenugrec> yea. openocd + gprof  / gcov. Crude, but better than nothing
2022-11-23T05:08:34 < machinehum> Does anyone know other channels I might be able to ask about my crazy on problem?
2022-11-23T05:18:26 < aandrew> I haven't done any kind of openocd automation
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < fenugrec> well I'm getting something; https://bpa.st/DRZQ 
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < fenugrec> but oocd insists on sampling just 10k values, at an unknown frequency
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2022-11-23T05:24:04 < aandrew> I was doing some of that wtih orbuculum a year or so ago
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < fenugrec> on M0 ?
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < aandrew> um... let me see if I can find
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < aandrew> I think M4 though
2022-11-23T05:24:04 < fenugrec> yeah that's "easy" with ITM and SWO
2022-11-23T05:24:58 < aandrew> yeah
2022-11-23T05:27:39 < fenugrec> but wow, this fw is spending way too much time updating status LEDs
2022-11-23T05:27:41 < aandrew> yep it was F405
2022-11-23T05:31:54 < machinehum> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/fl5160-dimmer-issues/
2022-11-23T05:31:57 < machinehum> Maybe
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2022-11-23T11:09:18 < karlp> fenugrec: hrm, I and others overhauled the pc sampling shit in oocd probably two years ago, fixing amongst others the limits on lengths and the freq reported into the gprof file, 
2022-11-23T11:09:28 < karlp> let me dig up why they're not applying,
2022-11-23T11:14:18 < karlp> fenugrec: which m0 is this? you've got one that has pcsr right? right?
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2022-11-23T11:17:43  * karlp waits on gerrit some more...
2022-11-23T11:45:26 < jpa-> oh, cortex-m0 has pcsr? that's nice at least, considering lack of swo
2022-11-23T11:51:52 < karlp> it's optional.
2022-11-23T11:53:48 < karlp> fenugrec: all the changes I'm thinking of are mostly 2018, one or two minor things from 2020, so not sure what else.
2022-11-23T11:54:23 < karlp> the sampling freq is "as fast as it can" and I tried to make it report a value that's at least plausible in https://review.openocd.org/c/openocd/+/4221/4 
2022-11-23T12:30:29 < benishor> next challenge in line: descriptor for a composite device with linein/lineout uac2.0 + 2 cdc serials
2022-11-23T12:30:56 < benishor> I feel this will be painful
2022-11-23T12:36:15 < karlp> different toolchains make descriptors easier/harder to work with, but shouldn't be...
2022-11-23T12:36:27 < karlp> as long asyour udc/hardware has enough endpoints...
2022-11-23T12:39:36 < benishor> went for tinyusb
2022-11-23T12:40:03 < benishor> after trying to grok HAL's middleware and nearly puking
2022-11-23T12:41:22 < benishor> mcu supports 8IN + 8OUT endpoints if memory serves right so it should suffice I guess
2022-11-23T12:41:28 < benishor> (stm32h7)
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2022-11-23T13:42:05 < Laurence_b> https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=2jLs-1GpwQM
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2022-11-23T16:39:29 < benishor> I use a basic tinyUSB uac2.0 test, generating a sine wave
2022-11-23T16:39:41 < benishor> and I get random cracks on the host when listening
2022-11-23T16:39:45 < benishor> rare but annoying
2022-11-23T16:39:58 < benishor> anyone got a clue of what might be happening?
2022-11-23T16:40:13 < rustyaxe> lost samples usually present as pop or crackle
2022-11-23T16:41:18 < benishor> that's what it sounds like
2022-11-23T16:41:25 < benishor> but why being lost?
2022-11-23T16:41:53 < BrainDamage> buffering
2022-11-23T16:42:07 < BrainDamage> usb is notoriously unreliable in timing
2022-11-23T16:42:19 < BrainDamage> so you may get a ton of data now, and no data for a while
2022-11-23T16:43:25 < BrainDamage> so you can either introduce a large buffer, and get latency, or use the god-awful isochronous transfer mode to ensure upper bound latency
2022-11-23T16:43:32 < benishor> so what's the cure?
2022-11-23T16:43:42 < benishor> large buffer sounds ok
2022-11-23T16:43:57 < benishor> what factor am I looking for? 2x? 3x?
2022-11-23T16:44:43 < BrainDamage> what's your sampling rate?
2022-11-23T16:45:16 < benishor> 48000
2022-11-23T16:45:51 < BrainDamage> so it's audio, keep about 1s or so of samples
2022-11-23T16:45:58 < benishor> oh wow
2022-11-23T16:46:09 < benishor> I wouldn't have expected that much
2022-11-23T16:46:35 < BrainDamage> you can go down all the way to 1ms if you want, but you need to start fine tuning your system
2022-11-23T16:46:53 < BrainDamage> 1s is a bit of a worst case, and about the frequency you can accept missed samples
2022-11-23T16:47:18 < BrainDamage> you can probably get away with 100ms of buffering, and maybe one pop in a month
2022-11-23T16:47:26 < benishor> thanks, brainy
2022-11-23T16:48:38 < BrainDamage> consider that your average sound player in your pc has 0.5-0.25 s of latency
2022-11-23T16:48:55 < BrainDamage> simply because it doesn't need any lower
2022-11-23T16:50:48 < BrainDamage> if you use pulseaudio in linux, use pactl list sink-inputs while playing some music or video
2022-11-23T16:50:54 < BrainDamage> it'll report the latency
2022-11-23T16:51:44 < BrainDamage> eg in this video:
2022-11-23T16:51:46 < BrainDamage> Buffer Latency: 80816 usec
2022-11-23T16:51:46 < BrainDamage> 	Sink Latency: 40913 usec
2022-11-23T16:58:49 < benishor> thanks!
2022-11-23T16:59:27 < karlp> but mr brainy, how do I do that with pipewire? ;)
2022-11-23T17:00:02 < karlp> (the command runs on my laptop, but eveyrthing is just 0)
2022-11-23T17:00:54 < karlp> (pw-top kinda shows it though,I think...)
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2022-11-23T17:02:01 < BrainDamage> sorry, I don't use pipewire, I'll switch to it once it's sufficiently documented
2022-11-23T17:02:08 < karlp> lol :)
2022-11-23T17:02:35 < karlp> I'm using it because that's what fedora's done, and so far it's all just working for me, but I'm glad I'm not asking much of it...
2022-11-23T17:02:56 < BrainDamage> every time I look at it I'm disappointed by the documentation
2022-11-23T17:03:05 < karlp> liek, youtube and rhythmbox work, and bt headphones work, and the hardware volume buttons work.  good enough for me right now.
2022-11-23T17:03:11 < BrainDamage> they have documentation how to program with it, but not how to use it as a user
2022-11-23T17:03:18 < BrainDamage> esp all the modules
2022-11-23T17:03:22 < karlp> who would ever need that? it's perfect surely!
2022-11-23T17:03:26 < karlp> reminds me a lot of gstreamer
2022-11-23T17:04:46 < benishor> lol, I found the problem
2022-11-23T17:05:05 < benishor> I had a 5m usb expander in the middle
2022-11-23T17:05:24 < benishor> because my cable was too short and couldn't reach the desktop
2022-11-23T17:05:31 < BrainDamage> 5m violates usb specs fwiw
2022-11-23T17:05:36 < benishor> as soon as I introduce that fucking hub, cracks and pops appear
2022-11-23T17:05:40 < benishor> I think 5m is at the limit
2022-11-23T17:05:43 < BrainDamage> 3m
2022-11-23T17:05:49 < benishor> oops
2022-11-23T17:05:56 < benishor> yey
2022-11-23T17:06:49 < benishor> BrainDamage: are you acquinted with tinyusb?
2022-11-23T17:06:56 < BrainDamage> nope
2022-11-23T17:07:38 < benishor> can you point me to some info on how to generate descriptors for a composite device having audio  and cdc?
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2022-11-23T17:18:17 < fenugrec> karlp, this is F042, it does seem to have DWT_PCSR (and the profiling trace I obtained was believable, and did not affect device throughput, so I'm inclined to believe it)
2022-11-23T17:36:46 < karlp> hrm, that help doc that says it only saves 10k seems odd, I don't remember hittingthat limit.
2022-11-23T17:38:37 < karlp> huh, no I see it in the code, that's fucking bonkers.
2022-11-23T17:39:28 < karlp> should absolutely be double buffered,
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2022-11-23T17:41:15 < fenugrec> I seem to hit it always - I ask to profile 5 seconds and it stops after < 1sec
2022-11-23T17:43:38 < karlp> it's been a while since I looked at it, but yeah,the code is very hard limited.
2022-11-23T17:43:51 < karlp> that seems like a very very artificial limit that would easily lifted...
2022-11-23T17:46:46 < fenugrec> I know ! Surprised it's not just an extra argument
2022-11-23T17:47:27 < fenugrec> I can afford trace files > 280kB
2022-11-23T17:47:54 < jpa-> 10000 was probably enough for everyone before the stop & resume crap got fixed :)
2022-11-23T17:48:10 < jpa-> in any case, edit MAX_PROFILE_SAMPLE_NUM in source code
2022-11-23T17:50:24 < fenugrec> Ha ha, "640kB should be enough RAM for everyone"
2022-11-23T17:50:39 < jpa-> or in this case, 40kB
2022-11-23T17:55:26 < karlp> I'm surprised the stop and resume code even existed, given how low usability it must have had :|
2022-11-23T17:55:49 < jpa-> i used it, a lot, it was terrible
2022-11-23T17:56:30 < jpa-> in comparison i haven't used the new code nearly as much, as now i also know how to use SWO
2022-11-23T17:56:32 < karlp> yeah, but someone _wrote_ it.
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2022-11-23T17:56:46 < karlp> it must have been useful to them?
2022-11-23T17:56:55 < jpa-> it was useful to me also
2022-11-23T17:57:05 < karlp> better tahn nothing I guess?
2022-11-23T17:58:13 < jpa-> 2014-04-16T13:13:38 < jpa-> hmm, lazy man's profiler: script openocd to halt; resume repeatedly, grep the PC addresses, sort and uniq -c       better than this before paul told me about the profile command :D
2022-11-23T17:58:27 < karlp> gak.
2022-11-23T17:58:55 < karlp> ok, what to fix first, linux rts/rs485 handling, or the QMI shits to make the modem work more reliably...
2022-11-23T17:59:02 < karlp> one hour to holidays...
2022-11-23T17:59:15 < jpa-> how long holidays?
2022-11-23T17:59:21 < karlp> just the weekend :)
2022-11-23T17:59:39 < jpa-> too short, extend it by the hour
2022-11-23T18:00:28 < karlp> think I'm goign to do some lua rocking...
2022-11-23T18:01:09 < karlp> was getting some 3d prints done earlier for new shit, and was getting offers for it alu for only $50, 
2022-11-23T18:01:14 < karlp> was suuuuuper tempted.
2022-11-23T18:01:33 < karlp> horrific idea for something mounted in the elec panel of course, but sounds super neat :)
2022-11-23T18:01:41 < karlp> never tried SLM shits before either.
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2022-11-23T22:49:26 < machinehum> onsemi came back with the most insane response
2022-11-23T22:49:28 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/fdkImNO
2022-11-23T22:53:53 < fenugrec> can you get their suggested circuit to exhibit the issue you're seeing ?
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2022-11-23T23:20:11 < machinehum> I don't have their demo board
2022-11-23T23:20:18 < machinehum> I've asked for it several times
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2022-11-23T23:20:47 < machinehum> What I have is basically a replica of their suggested cct.
2022-11-23T23:47:02 < qyx> c pros, how do I find out which part of my code causes all the printf stuff to be included?
2022-11-23T23:48:00 < machinehum> Alright STM32 I've made a striking new development
2022-11-23T23:48:20 < machinehum> qyx: cscope?
2022-11-23T23:49:25 < machinehum> When I connect my bench power supply common (not earth ground) to the GND of my circuit (pin 5) things will power on and work as per expected
2022-11-23T23:49:37 < machinehum> There are also some small sparks when conncting those two points
2022-11-23T23:49:53 < machinehum> I don't need to inject a voltage for things to work
2022-11-23T23:57:30 < fenugrec> qyx, objdump -d and grep for printf
2022-11-23T23:57:45 < fenugrec> assert() will do it
--- Day changed to marras 24 2022
2022-11-24T00:00:29 < machinehum> Wait wtf why does their demo schematic say "Neutral Earth GND" https://i.imgur.com/DGgTSUg.png
2022-11-24T00:01:03 < machinehum> Which is it
2022-11-24T00:01:51 < BrainDamage> I think they want them shorted together, but that depends on your mains wiring
2022-11-24T00:02:05 < BrainDamage> some do have gnd and neutral shorted on the premises
2022-11-24T00:02:48 < machinehum> In NA they're shorted back at the breaker I believe
2022-11-24T00:03:00 < qyx> fenugrec: bingo
2022-11-24T00:03:34 < qyx> found out exactly when you said that
2022-11-24T00:03:37 < machinehum> But a normal light fixture would have a GND attached to the metal box, any maybe a N depending on when the wire was pulled
2022-11-24T00:04:57 < qyx> you definitely don't have N attached to the metal enclosure
2022-11-24T00:05:15 < qyx> neither in TN-C, nor TN-S, nor IT
2022-11-24T00:05:17 < qyx> or whatever
2022-11-24T00:05:24 < BrainDamage> N can have even hundred volts over earth
2022-11-24T00:05:37 < BrainDamage> depending on the load on the lines
2022-11-24T00:07:55 < qyx> fenugrec: great thanks -DNDEBUG and it is okay for now
2022-11-24T00:12:41 < fenugrec> qyx cool. yeah I always end up using an assert wrapper of some kind
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2022-11-24T00:14:11 < machinehum> Right
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2022-11-24T00:14:21 < machinehum> So what the hell is their schematic on about
2022-11-24T00:15:15 < fenugrec> indeed in NA neutral and gnd is usually bonded in one place in the building entry, equipment isn't supposed to rely on that though
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2022-11-24T00:15:39 < machinehum> Right of course
2022-11-24T00:15:59 < machinehum> You can't use GND as the return path for normal operation...
2022-11-24T00:21:55 < zyp> 23:01:03 < machinehum> Which is it
2022-11-24T00:22:02 < zyp> either, depending on which setup you're testing
2022-11-24T00:22:36 < zyp> for a two-wire setup, you hook up PE there, just for the ZC Monitor
2022-11-24T00:22:50 < zyp> for a three-wire setup, you hook up neutral there
2022-11-24T00:24:08 < zyp> compare how ZC Monitor is hooked up in figures 3 and 4 in the datasheet for the chip itself
2022-11-24T00:27:02 < zyp> 23:04:57 < qyx> you definitely don't have N attached to the metal enclosure
2022-11-24T00:27:02 < zyp> 23:05:15 < qyx> neither in TN-C, nor TN-S, nor IT
2022-11-24T00:27:04 < zyp> uh
2022-11-24T00:27:20 < zyp> in TN-C, N == PEN == PE
2022-11-24T00:28:04 < qyx> no, it is PEN, not N
2022-11-24T00:28:11 < qyx> there is no N in TN-C
2022-11-24T00:29:47 < zyp> there is no dedicated N; PEN serves the role of N
2022-11-24T00:29:47 < qyx> try to explain your code inspector you connected a blue wire marked N to your luminaire enclosure
2022-11-24T00:30:04 < zyp> haha :)
2022-11-24T00:30:30 < qyx> sorry for being pedantic
2022-11-24T00:30:32 < zyp> what's standard coloring for PEN anyway?
2022-11-24T00:30:42 < qyx> ye-gn
2022-11-24T00:30:49 < zyp> yeah, that's what I assumed
2022-11-24T00:32:37 < zyp> anyway, my perspective is that you're right, you're not connecting N but PE to the enclosure, but in TN-C, N and PE is both served by PEN and is effectively the same, even though the terms don't intermix
2022-11-24T00:32:58 < qyx> that's true too
2022-11-24T00:33:39 < zyp> one could argue that as soon as you run PEN into an enclosure and hook it up both to neutral and the enclosure itself, you've made a TN-C-S split :)
2022-11-24T00:34:38 < zyp> that said, I've never seen TN-C in any other form as the feedline for a TN-C-S system with a split before the meter
2022-11-24T00:37:00 < qyx> still plenty of TN-C here
2022-11-24T00:37:08 < qyx> in older buildings
2022-11-24T00:37:16 < qyx> also, we split after the meter in TN-C-S
2022-11-24T00:38:02 < zyp> we split before the breaker so breaker also breaks N, meter comes after the breaker
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2022-11-24T00:47:00 < machinehum> My circuit is design to work in 3 wire mode
2022-11-24T00:47:47 < machinehum> Which I've determined, does not work with this chip, there's a silicon bug
2022-11-24T00:52:33 < machinehum> 2-wire works great though, quick hack
2022-11-24T00:52:47 < machinehum> Boom works immediately
2022-11-24T00:53:37 < zyp> I'm not sure that makes sense, given that 2- and 3-wire modes are just different ways of hooking the chip up externally
2022-11-24T00:53:53 < zyp> sounds more like you've fucked up how you've got it hooked up in 3-wire mode
2022-11-24T00:56:38 < qyx> simply cut the third wire then
2022-11-24T00:57:42 < machinehum> For 3 wire mode, I have N connected to ZC Mon via a 1M resistor, and for 2wire mode I have ZC mon connected to Line Hot via same resistor
2022-11-24T00:58:45 < zyp> in two wire mode, VS is fed from what's effectively a full bridge rectifier across line and load, in three wire mode, VS is fed from a rectifier across line/neutral
2022-11-24T00:59:18 < zyp> that shouldn't affect the operation mode of the chip at all
2022-11-24T00:59:30 < machinehum> Yeah when I did my 2wire conversion I added the extra diode to make the bridge
2022-11-24T01:00:05 < machinehum> And taking a look I'm having issues with 2wire mode as well, improper operation unless I connect the common on my bench power supply to ground of the circuit
2022-11-24T01:00:38 < zyp> the only difference between two and three wire mode is the implicit limitation that two wire mode can't run at 100% duty because that would leave no voltage to tap across line and load
2022-11-24T01:02:16 < zyp> what part of the circuit does your bench power supply run?
2022-11-24T01:02:25 < zyp> only the other side of the optoisolator?
2022-11-24T01:03:43 < machinehum> It's not going to be there for the end application, nor will the voltage be. The only think I'm using it for is feeding voltage into the DIM_Control pin to test the dimming
2022-11-24T01:04:24 < machinehum> It's an isolated supply
2022-11-24T01:04:37 < zyp> well, duh, if you're feeding DIM_Control from a bench supply, of course they must share a common ground for the return path
2022-11-24T01:06:24 < machinehum> My bench suppy's common is connected to the circuit GND
2022-11-24T01:06:41 < machinehum> I mean the supply is isolated from earth GND
2022-11-24T01:06:56 < zyp> of course
2022-11-24T01:07:25 < zyp> I don't understand what part of that constitutes «having issues with…»
2022-11-24T01:08:15 < zyp> if you're gonna supply a voltage to DIM_Control, that's a voltage between DIM_Control and GND, and the bench supply then naturally needs to hook up to both
2022-11-24T01:09:10 < machinehum> Oh shit
2022-11-24T01:09:11 < zyp> if you leave the common on the bench supply open, you'd be supplying a voltage between DIM_Control and some floating arbitrary potential
2022-11-24T01:09:31 < machinehum> Wait you're right, technically DIM_Control is a current output
2022-11-24T01:09:42 < zyp> no, that has nothing to do with it
2022-11-24T01:09:45 < machinehum> oh
2022-11-24T01:10:02 < zyp> my point is that a voltage is a potential difference between two points
2022-11-24T01:10:17 < zyp> i.e. the common and the output on your bench supply
2022-11-24T01:10:28 < zyp> or the GND and the DIM_Control pin on the chip
2022-11-24T01:12:24 < machinehum> But traditionally if the DIM_Control was an input, you would just be able to feed in a voltage from a supply and connect the supply's common to circuit common
2022-11-24T01:12:39 < machinehum> Are you saying there's something wrong with that?
2022-11-24T01:12:54 < zyp> circuit common is GND
2022-11-24T01:13:04 < machinehum> Earth GND?
2022-11-24T01:13:17 < zyp> what earth GND?
2022-11-24T01:13:41 < machinehum> I'm just clarifying
2022-11-24T01:13:58 < zyp> here's the schematic you posted yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/zF1To0i.png
2022-11-24T01:14:06 < machinehum> Yes
2022-11-24T01:14:45 < zyp> GND is pin 5 on the chip
2022-11-24T01:14:52 < machinehum> Yes, correct
2022-11-24T01:15:12 < zyp> it has nothing to do with earth
2022-11-24T01:15:32 < machinehum> Sounds good, I was just clarifying
2022-11-24T01:16:03 < machinehum> So what's the issue with feeding a voltage into DIM_Control wrt. GND (pin5)
2022-11-24T01:16:15 < zyp> none
2022-11-24T01:16:33 < zyp> that's exactly what you have to do if you want to feed a voltage into DIM_Control
2022-11-24T01:16:43 < machinehum> Yeah
2022-11-24T01:16:48 < machinehum> That's what I've been doing
2022-11-24T01:17:20 < zyp> 00:00:05 < machinehum> And taking a look I'm having issues with 2wire mode as well, improper operation unless I connect the common on my bench power supply to ground of the circuit
2022-11-24T01:17:29 < zyp> please elaborate on that
2022-11-24T01:17:34 < machinehum> Yes
2022-11-24T01:17:57 < machinehum> I see where I was confusing
2022-11-24T01:19:19 < zyp> so in other words you don't have any issues with two wire mode?
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2022-11-24T01:20:39 < machinehum> Let me explain
2022-11-24T01:21:59 < machinehum> Lets say my bench suppy is connected between DIM_Control and GND, on at 1.3V. When I power on mains, the device works as expected, I can adjust my supply up and down and dimming works great.
2022-11-24T01:22:55 < machinehum> Now say I power on mains _first_, without the bench supply being on, nothing turns on, no dimming. If I then turn the bench supply on, the dimming does not start working
2022-11-24T01:23:22 < zyp> so effectively the exact same behavior you had in three wire mode?
2022-11-24T01:24:15 < machinehum> That's three wire more, sorry. Let me wire back to two wire mode and take a look
2022-11-24T01:32:32 < zyp> would it be an option to design the signal conditioning so it always starts up at a higher value, before dimming to 0?
2022-11-24T01:33:19 < zyp> I'd be tempted to put a SLG47004 or something to run DIM_Control
2022-11-24T01:38:42 < machinehum> Two wire mode: Similar action, however if I power the optocoupler eventually the device will turn on
2022-11-24T01:39:08 < machinehum> I wonder if there's an issue with driving the DIM_Control pin directly
2022-11-24T01:39:45 < machinehum> Ideally I don't have to do something like that, it's a pretty simple little thing I was hoping to get it working without special stuff
2022-11-24T01:49:36 < karlp> heh, 3d printing services are fun.  I naively set a 3mm wall thickness, because I want to split it in half and make a latching lip, but that made me a big fat 3mm base plate as well for "wall thickness"
2022-11-24T01:49:46 < machinehum> Wait
2022-11-24T01:49:50 < machinehum> I have it 
2022-11-24T01:49:55 < karlp> so 100x80mm, with 3mm shell wall is ~$10 printed.
2022-11-24T01:50:04 < machinehum> "If a 2-wire application is used and the DIM Control pin voltage is >4 V a POR will occur
2022-11-24T01:50:18 < machinehum> I'm exceeding the voltage on the pin, forcing a POR
2022-11-24T01:50:20 < karlp> 100x80, with 3mm side walls and only 1mm base.  (both of these are 20mm tall) is only ~$6
2022-11-24T01:50:24 < machinehum> in 2 wire mode
2022-11-24T01:50:30 < machinehum> That's why it starts working
2022-11-24T01:50:31 < karlp> saving all that material across the base is _masssive_ cost driver
2022-11-24T01:50:46 < machinehum> So how do I force a POR in 3 wire mode...
2022-11-24T01:50:47 < karlp> sorry for monologueing over the ongoing dimmer saga.
2022-11-24T01:50:53 < karlp> I hope you get it worked out eventually
2022-11-24T01:51:03 < machinehum> Thankyou karlp 
2022-11-24T01:51:27 < karlp> I'm on holidays! music and beer time for me :) 
2022-11-24T01:51:39 < karlp> wife just bought an appartment too aiui. so that's a good going away present.
2022-11-24T01:51:52 < karlp> musicspam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FjauOAhBHw
2022-11-24T01:51:56 < karlp> where's kakimir?
2022-11-24T01:51:59 < machinehum> If I get it I'll get a ##stm32 tattoo on my butt
2022-11-24T01:52:12 < karlp> unless the eevblog people answer first?
2022-11-24T01:53:03 < zyp> karlp, doesn't sound too strange, saves both material and print time
2022-11-24T01:53:45 < karlp> zyp: yeah, just wasn't quite expecting so much. it's really interesting where you can forget things.
2022-11-24T01:54:08 < karlp> this is from naively clicking the "thickness/shell" in freecad and forgetting that the bottom was just goign to be a big thick plate needlessly.
2022-11-24T01:54:16 < karlp> need to rejigger things....
2022-11-24T01:54:24 < karlp> seeing as "cheap" is the overall goal of this project...
2022-11-24T01:54:30 < zyp> remember also that 3d prints aren't typically massive
2022-11-24T01:54:47 < zyp> the walls will mostly be, but the bottom plate can be pretty hollow
2022-11-24T01:56:29 < zyp> if it were massive, you're talking roughly 42 vs 28 cm3
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2022-11-24T01:57:05 < zyp> and 28/42 is 2/3
2022-11-24T01:57:07 < karlp> by massive you mean the infill / density?
2022-11-24T01:57:10 < zyp> yes
2022-11-24T01:57:21 < karlp> yeah, I get it, the area of the base is _huge_ on 100x80 compared to the walls, 
2022-11-24T01:57:34 < karlp> I'm just glad I thought of this and checked :)
2022-11-24T01:57:49 < karlp> I've gotten better at freecaddding too, yay.
2022-11-24T01:58:37 < zyp> I'm gonna try cadquery at some point
2022-11-24T01:59:08 < zyp> seems useful for a bunch of the things I do
2022-11-24T02:00:52 < karlp> cadquery is great
2022-11-24T02:00:55 < karlp> I use that too.
2022-11-24T02:01:11 < karlp> I've done a bit of that for creating 3d models of parts for kicad,
2022-11-24T02:01:56 < zyp> I've mostly used fusion 360, which I've got a love/hate relationship with
2022-11-24T02:02:57 < karlp> hrm, I was going to link stuff, but some of it must be committed and unpushed on my work pc
2022-11-24T02:04:11 < karlp> https://gitlab.com/karljp/kicad-packages3D-generator/-/blob/et-top/Inductors_SMD/generator-cq-only.py you get the idea at least....
2022-11-24T02:05:32 < machinehum> That's just what I'll have to do. Use the two wire mode, so I can force a POR
2022-11-24T02:06:02 < machinehum> I see no way to force a POR using the three wire mode
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2022-11-24T02:21:11 < machinehum> This is the example circuit they sent to me for MCU control
2022-11-24T02:21:12 < machinehum> https://i.imgur.com/cmLdpmh.png
2022-11-24T02:21:14 < machinehum> you know what
2022-11-24T02:21:21 < machinehum> You need another 5V
2022-11-24T02:21:46 < machinehum> You can't use the Vdd from the chip, the dude didn't know what he was talking about when he said you could use that vdd from the chip
2022-11-24T02:21:50 < machinehum> Because obviously that doens't work
2022-11-24T02:22:32 < machinehum> When turning on the top optocoupler, that's forcing a POR, DIM_Control to 0V
2022-11-24T02:22:45 < machinehum> Via the low power mode
2022-11-24T02:22:54 < machinehum> God this is such bullshit
2022-11-24T02:23:23 < machinehum> Fuck asic is busted and they made some bullshit hack to make it work what nonsense
2022-11-24T02:26:45 < machinehum> Does anyone have a mega super simple 120VAC -> 5V, doesn't needs to supply like 5mA
2022-11-24T02:26:52 < machinehum> Doesn't need to be isolated
2022-11-24T02:28:52 < fenugrec> who designs AC dimmers anyway, outside china
2022-11-24T02:29:13 < machinehum> Me apparently
2022-11-24T02:31:27 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/onsemi/NCP786LSTADJT3G/6166734
2022-11-24T02:31:47 < machinehum> I guess I could use that with a simple bridge
2022-11-24T02:42:18 < Mangy_Dog> i did an ac dimmer for my reflow oeven
2022-11-24T02:42:20 < Mangy_Dog> well
2022-11-24T02:42:30 < Mangy_Dog> i adapted an ac dimmer and wrote zero crossing code for it
2022-11-24T02:45:33 < machinehum> Cool
2022-11-24T02:45:43 < machinehum> I'm starting to think I should have just used a MCU+FETS
2022-11-24T02:49:52 < qyx> a capacitor divider to get 5 V, 5 V super-pro MCU and a triac
2022-11-24T02:50:23 < qyx> for proper '90 design
2022-11-24T02:50:35 < qyx> 8051 of course
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2022-11-24T08:56:03 < jpa-> machinehum: do you actually need to get power usage that low, or could you just keep the chip on but dim it to 0?
2022-11-24T08:58:18 < jpa-> possibly omitting Q3
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2022-11-24T10:07:43 < benishor> good morning people of earth
2022-11-24T11:15:13 < qyx> jpa-: there are some eu regulation for lighting considering idle power usage for such devices
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2022-11-24T13:08:59 < qyx> I will kill all those rs485 devices
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2022-11-24T13:14:15 < qyx> this okystar thing doesn't output anything on the rs485 side despite the transceiver having correct inputs
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2022-11-24T13:45:37 < qyx> guess what, A-B TVS is shorted
2022-11-24T13:45:58 < qyx> and there are two resistors pulling BOTH A and B to GND
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2022-11-24T15:09:59 < benishor> baudline does not work on ubuntu 22 :/
2022-11-24T15:10:30 < benishor> because /dev/audio and /dev/mixer does not exist anymore
2022-11-24T15:13:17 < BrainDamage> padsp baudline
2022-11-24T15:13:29 < BrainDamage> that'll emulate an oss sound driver using pulseaudio
2022-11-24T15:13:37 < BrainDamage> I'm sure pipewire has  an equivalent
2022-11-24T15:14:04 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/L6ahSygT
2022-11-24T15:14:08 < benishor> no cigar
2022-11-24T15:15:09 < BrainDamage> you'll likely need a 32 bit version of pulseaudio too
2022-11-24T15:15:16 < BrainDamage> because baudline is 32 bit
2022-11-24T15:15:56  * benishor blinks
2022-11-24T15:16:10 < benishor> it would be great if you could just tell me what to do
2022-11-24T15:16:22 < benishor> I wouldn't mind even using -stdin, but I don't know how to get the samples
2022-11-24T15:16:27 < BrainDamage> I don't know what distro you have
2022-11-24T15:16:43 < benishor> ubuntu 22.10
2022-11-24T15:16:54 < BrainDamage> then I don't know the packages, sorry
2022-11-24T15:17:09 < BrainDamage> search in the package manager something along the lines of lib 32 pulse
2022-11-24T15:17:18 < BrainDamage> and install that
2022-11-24T15:17:21 < benishor> should I be looking for pulseaudio?
2022-11-24T15:17:28 < benishor> won't it affect pipewire?
2022-11-24T15:17:36 < BrainDamage> oh, you have pipewire?
2022-11-24T15:17:49 < BrainDamage> then I don't know
2022-11-24T15:34:00 < qyx> is pipewire yet another audio framework for lunices?
2022-11-24T15:34:08 < qyx> never heard of that one
2022-11-24T15:35:15 < BrainDamage> it's supposed to be audio and video
2022-11-24T15:35:54 < BrainDamage> it has the advantage over pa that it also offers a jack-like interface for professional audio
2022-11-24T15:36:05 < BrainDamage> but it's still severely underdocumented
2022-11-24T15:36:23 < BrainDamage> it's supposed to "just work", but the things I need are not automagic
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2022-11-24T16:07:14 < fenugrec> tried PW a few months ago, it was unusable
2022-11-24T16:07:26 < fenugrec> but yea, still under development
2022-11-24T16:22:19 < benishor> made baudline work with `parec --channels=2 --latency-msec=10 | ./baudline -stdin -stdout | pacat`
2022-11-24T16:22:27 < benishor> leaving that as reference
2022-11-24T16:56:08 < catphish_> pipewire seems to be an alternative to pulseaudio, i have no idea why we need another one :(
2022-11-24T16:59:05 < Xogium> catphish_: they are trying to combine jack, pulseaudio, alsa, and even video in pipewire
2022-11-24T16:59:13 < Xogium> and no I don't see the point either
2022-11-24T17:03:47 < zyp> it's a bit xkcd 927
2022-11-24T17:05:00 < catphish_> Xogium: i can see the benefit of a unified setup that supports both "normal" desktop audio mixing and the high performance low latency pipes of jack
2022-11-24T17:05:12 < zyp> my impression is that the point of pipewire was to take the good parts of pulseaudio and redo some design decisions that have plagued it
2022-11-24T17:05:22 < zyp> but I don't really know the specifics
2022-11-24T17:05:38 < rustyaxe> because pulseaudio is an abomination? one good thing about ditching pulse was, i can plug in headphones now and they actually work. Instead of randomly speaker out (dock) and headphone out (laptop) being flipped around and having to pick the opposite output of what PA chose :P
2022-11-24T17:06:52 < catphish_> it would be nice if i could get pulseaudio not to change my default audio device any time i plug a usb headset in, i only want to use it for voice calls
2022-11-24T17:07:30 < zyp> you probably can, but I think the default is reasonable
2022-11-24T17:10:45 < rustyaxe> the annoying pops and clicks:? Gone too
2022-11-24T17:13:34 < Xogium> catphish_: just don't load the module for switch on connect
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2022-11-24T17:15:46 < Xogium> but tbh yeah I guess unifying this cannot hurt, but still. I'm not gonna mess about with audio since I don't have braille
2022-11-24T17:18:41 < catphish_> Xogium: i'll look into that
2022-11-24T17:19:19 < Xogium> catphish_: yeah ?
2022-11-24T17:20:59 < catphish_> i just use PA however linux mint sets it up, the GUI is useful but doesn't have that many options
2022-11-24T17:22:18 < Xogium> fwiw this seems to be something ubuntu and friends might have did to PA config by default (on archlinux, switch on connect is not enabled by default)
2022-11-24T17:22:34 < Xogium> *might have done, sorry
2022-11-24T17:22:45 < catphish_> i guess so, it's certainly enabled by default on my machine
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2022-11-24T17:34:09 < rustyaxe> enabled (and problematic) on my machine til i apt purge pulseaudio too.
2022-11-24T17:34:16 < rustyaxe> on devuan
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2022-11-24T20:36:55 < machinehum> jpa-: What you mean?
2022-11-24T20:37:26 < machinehum> My problem is with startup
2022-11-24T20:37:43 < machinehum> The POR is required to fix the stupid bug
2022-11-24T20:41:07 < benishor> <rustyaxe> the annoying pops and clicks:? Gone too
2022-11-24T20:41:08 < benishor> not mine
2022-11-24T20:41:26 < benishor> and it's not due to pipewire/pulse but rather my take on stm32 usb audio
2022-11-24T20:42:11 < benishor> I fail to understand what I'm doing wrong to cause the pops
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2022-11-24T23:42:34 < zyp> machinehum, I don't think you need the POR, it just that when you force a POR by driving DIM_Control high, it's still high after reset and thus not getting latched at 0 or whatever you called the behavior
2022-11-24T23:43:48 < zyp> if you designed the DIM_Control circutry so it didn't start out at 0, you'd get the same behavior from the first power on
2022-11-24T23:46:59 < zyp> e.g. if you moved the capacitor to the high side and the phototransistor to the low side, it'd reset to max instead of 0% and then you run the pwm with the opposite polarity (more pwm duty, less light out)
2022-11-24T23:48:32 < zyp> but as I said yesterday, I'd rather use one of the analog greenpaks as a pwm to analog converter in that case, would give you more flexibility
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--- Day changed pe marras 25 2022
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2022-11-25T02:26:07 < Laurence_b> 11.1kms^{-1}
2022-11-25T02:26:10 < Laurence_b> In September 2019, Ellsworth initiated a Kickstarter for a new device based on the same principles of the castAR, called Tilt Five.[32] This Kickstarter exceeded the previous one, hitting its initial target of $450,000 in 17 hours, and eventually gaining $1,767,301. Initially scheduled to deliver Kickstarter product by June 2020, the manufacturing
2022-11-25T02:26:10 < Laurence_b> was delayed by the Covid pandemic
2022-11-25T02:26:18 < Laurence_b> its still going
2022-11-25T02:26:20 < Laurence_b> my sides
2022-11-25T02:27:04 < Laurence_b> >coming spring 2023
2022-11-25T02:27:08 < Laurence_b> cool story bro
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2022-11-25T02:55:34 < qyx> but she delivered
2022-11-25T02:55:43 < qyx> at least some
2022-11-25T02:55:46 < qyx> and it is working
2022-11-25T03:09:11 < aandrew> yeah tilt5 seems to not be vapour
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2022-11-25T11:36:22 < benishor> boo
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2022-11-25T12:14:01 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/Y5IVAZo
2022-11-25T12:14:05 < benishor> my cracks and pops :(
2022-11-25T12:16:16 < drzacek> what am I seeing here, benishor ?
2022-11-25T12:17:01 < benishor> drzacek: a sine generated on mcu and being sent through tinyUSB to the host pc
2022-11-25T12:17:27 < benishor> most likely I am doing something wrong because I get those pops and cracklings
2022-11-25T12:19:18 < benishor> it happens the same at 48KHz samplerate and 8KHz so it's not the bandwidth
2022-11-25T12:19:21 < drzacek> how is sine a valid usb signal? or am I missing something?
2022-11-25T12:20:05 < benishor> drzacek: I am using UAC2.0 class to pass audio info
2022-11-25T12:20:13 < drzacek> ah
2022-11-25T12:20:24 < drzacek> how does that sinus look like before sampling? 
2022-11-25T12:27:47 < zyp> I'm guessing maybe sync issues
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2022-11-25T12:38:41 < benishor> fuck, it's the same usb extender I am using
2022-11-25T12:38:52 < benishor> just tested on the laptop (same OS, ubuntu 22)
2022-11-25T12:38:57 < benishor> with and without the extender
2022-11-25T12:39:48 < benishor> how long can usb cables get without needing a hub?
2022-11-25T12:41:58 < benishor>  <drzacek> how does that sinus look like before sampling? 
2022-11-25T12:42:08 < benishor> it looks good. the distortion you see there is due to soft clipping
2022-11-25T12:42:29 < benishor> I forgot that in place
2022-11-25T12:43:13 < drzacek> benishor, max 5m, but 5m can cause problems sometimes
2022-11-25T12:43:28 < drzacek> so <<5m
2022-11-25T12:45:49 < zyp> usb2 spec says 5m
2022-11-25T12:46:11 < zyp> in practice, longer usually works
2022-11-25T12:51:27 < benishor> I just used a longer cable with no usb hub in it and now the cracks are gone
2022-11-25T12:51:29 < benishor> victory
2022-11-25T12:54:52 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/Y5IVAZo
2022-11-25T12:54:57 < benishor> check the second image: much better
2022-11-25T12:55:03 < benishor> I also removed the soft clipping
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2022-11-25T14:50:47 < benishor> wtf https://imgur.com/a/TB2hDJc
2022-11-25T14:51:02 < benishor> at times the usb signal frequency gets shifted
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2022-11-25T15:50:08 < jpa-> benishor: what is "usb signal frequency"? and why is it 600Hz anyway?
2022-11-25T15:50:53 < jpa-> if you are just measuring aliasing between undersampled USB signal and your soundcard, i'm not very surprised you get weird results
2022-11-25T16:11:52 < benishor> jpa-: I don't understand what "usb signal frequency" means
2022-11-25T16:12:10 < benishor> the shifting was a case of pebcak
2022-11-25T16:12:41 < benishor> that's my sdr audio delivered to the pc and we can see the filtering
2022-11-25T16:19:06 < jpa-> it was the term you used, not me :)
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2022-11-25T16:20:37 < Laurence_b> https://storage.googleapis.com/rs.dolphinfitness.com/tn1/tn1_151263561.jpg
2022-11-25T16:20:55 < Laurence_b> orbital sides
2022-11-25T16:27:21 < specing> Laurence_b: https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/pQzQKr0E/QZSSNc4f.jpg
2022-11-25T16:27:39 < Laurence_b> lol
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2022-11-25T16:45:30 < qyx> zyp: in practice in some environments, even 2 m wasn't working sometimes
2022-11-25T16:45:54 < qyx> poor quality cables, even those thick ones, ground loops, etc.
2022-11-25T16:46:44 < qyx> mainly in industrial setups with proper grounding
2022-11-25T16:51:04 < Laurence_b> no banter allowed https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFhrHfTqWYAEFlgw.png%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-11-25T16:51:19  * Laurence_b gets sacked
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2022-11-25T17:48:30 < catphish> i really dislike endianness sometimes!
2022-11-25T17:57:06 < fenugrec> Why does segger ozone suck ? Watch, Quick watch, even local data is mostly unusable for structs or struct pointers
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2022-11-25T17:57:20 < fenugrec> even gdb does a better job
2022-11-25T18:00:23 < specing> lolrence ;)
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2022-11-25T18:35:26 < machinehum> zyp: But my DIm_Control is driven by a 5V from the chip
2022-11-25T18:36:33 < machinehum> +5VP
2022-11-25T18:36:55 < machinehum> I've tried shorting +5VP to DIM_Control on boot it doesn't work
2022-11-25T19:00:01 < jpa-> fenugrec: how is it unusable? are your debug symbols just broken?
2022-11-25T19:02:37 < Steffanx-> I hardly ever have issues with ozone and watches.
2022-11-25T19:05:08 < rustyaxe> Last problem we had involving ozone also involved powdered copper and terrifying green flames :P
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2022-11-25T19:07:56 < Steffanx-> What you do for a living mr rustyaxe ? 
2022-11-25T19:09:54 < rustyaxe> these days? I just install and fix networks and VoIP shit. its a lot safer
2022-11-25T19:15:33 < Steffanx-> Safer than what?
2022-11-25T19:17:13 < Steffanx-> Oh the ozone stuff
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2022-11-25T19:18:22 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFh3M5I9XkAA3wdR.png
2022-11-25T19:18:25 < Laurence_b> kekking hard
2022-11-25T19:18:36 < Laurence_b> >when you get to the bottom of the exchange
2022-11-25T19:19:29 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFh3ORM-X0AEAfA5.png%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-11-25T19:19:30 < rustyaxe> Steffanx-: we discovered even normally quite inert metals are hella flammable when powered in an ozone rich environment (which conveniently enough, an arcing electrical connection makes plentifully) 
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2022-11-25T20:37:44 < bitmask> woot!, gotta fix the morph target animations, but I think my pipeline/descriptor system is done and working. I can load multiple objects of different types/shaders: https://i.imgur.com/mxXh7eC.png
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2022-11-25T22:00:42 < analoq> im trying to create a virtual serial interface via usb on a F411RE nucleo. does anyone happen to know a simple test i could upload to verify my usb hardware is setup correctly? 
2022-11-25T22:03:13 < catphish_> it's pretty had to mess up USB hardware, it's just 2 wires :)
2022-11-25T22:07:56 < catphish_> i'm not sure how best to test though, i seem to recall using cubeide to generate an example with usb mass storage
2022-11-25T22:15:29 < analoq> catphish_: well. the datapins are fairly simple. gnd too. but vbus im not to sure. i connected it to PA9 as the datasheet suggests. which hopefully didnt roast the pin as it's 5V
2022-11-25T22:15:31 < fenugrec> jpa-, syms are fine, but I can't see the contents of any global struct , or any struct pointer
2022-11-25T22:15:42 < fenugrec> i.e. the members are there, but the "value" field is always empty
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2022-11-25T22:36:54 < catphish_> analoq: you don't need vbus
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2022-11-25T22:37:31 < catphish_> vbus is just a 5V supply from the PC, i connect it to a voltage regulator to power the STM32, but you don't have to connect it to anything
2022-11-25T22:41:40 < catphish_> analoq: this the the schematic from my last stm32 USB project, it's really that simple: https://i.imgur.com/ERrztfO.png one should probably add ESD protection, but otherwise it's literally just 2 data pins and ground
2022-11-25T22:53:33 < analoq> catphish_: hm ok. i saw this schematic in the datasheet https://i.imgur.com/8yuvYF1.png
2022-11-25T22:56:04 < zyp> it depends which chip you're using, there's several kinds of USB cores -- some use vbus and some doesn't
2022-11-25T22:56:47 < zyp> the chips with the dwc_otg cores expects vbus hooked up to PA9 (but sensing can be turned off/overridden)
2022-11-25T22:56:58 < zyp> the other chips doesn't have vbus sense circuitry at all
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2022-11-25T23:01:23 < catphish_> interesting, i've not run into that. if the datasheet says VBUS shoudl be connected to a GPIO, do it :)
2022-11-25T23:01:56 < zyp> well, L433 does not use dwc_otg :)
2022-11-25T23:02:10 < zyp> L47x and L49x does
2022-11-25T23:02:12 < catphish_> indeed, not analoq is using F411
2022-11-25T23:02:21 < zyp> F411 does
2022-11-25T23:02:33 < catphish_> oh okay, then i guess analoq had better connect the pin :)
2022-11-25T23:02:49 < catphish_> i can't imagine what purpose that serves
2022-11-25T23:03:00 < catphish_> something to do with OTG?
2022-11-25T23:03:35 < zyp> yeah, HNP/SRP requires VBUS control
2022-11-25T23:03:46 < zyp> that's some OTG role switching thing, never used it
2022-11-25T23:04:18 < zyp> but for a self powered device I also thing it's required to be strictly spec compliant
2022-11-25T23:04:55 < zyp> I believe a device aren't allowed to present anything on the data lines (i.e. the D+ pullup) before VBUS is present
2022-11-25T23:05:15 < zyp> for a bus powered issue that's not an issue since it won't be powered at all if VBUS isn't present
2022-11-25T23:05:43 < zyp> but for a self powered device I think it's supposed to sense VBUS and only enable D+ pullup once powered
2022-11-25T23:06:05 < zyp> the phy in the dwc_otg core will do that for you as long as vbus sensing is enabled
2022-11-25T23:06:52 < zyp> I'm also not sure HNP/SRP is relevant anymore for USB-C OTG
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2022-11-25T23:07:13 < zyp> USB-C introduced a FRS mechanism that I believe serves the same purpose
2022-11-25T23:07:40 < zyp> which I also haven't used :)
2022-11-25T23:14:35 < analoq> another thing i'm not quite sure about. stm differentiates between 'usb device only', 'usb otg fs', 'usb otg hs', 'usb otg fs+hs'. is the 'usb device only' a sub group of the other classes?
2022-11-25T23:14:49 < fenugrec> device-only means !otg
2022-11-25T23:15:23 < analoq> yeah but does otg include 'device only'?
2022-11-25T23:15:25 < zyp> a otg usb core is a usb core that can operate both as a device and as a host
2022-11-25T23:15:40 < analoq> that makes sense
2022-11-25T23:15:42 < zyp> a device only core can't operate as host
2022-11-25T23:16:46 < analoq> it just threw me off that the l4 has a checkmark at 'device only' and 'otg' while the other ones do not. https://i.imgur.com/rcTRtiD.png
2022-11-25T23:17:04 < zyp> a otg core is effectively a device controller, a host controller and a little bit of logic for switching between those two roles
2022-11-25T23:18:02 < zyp> that's just because there's differences within the L4 family
2022-11-25T23:18:19 < zyp> L43x is device only, L47x is otg
2022-11-25T23:19:08 < zyp> also, the fs/hs part in that table is fairly incomprehensible
2022-11-25T23:20:57 < zyp> at least I don't get what the FS&HS column represents, that's not already given when there's a checkmark in both the FS and the HS columns
2022-11-25T23:22:50 < zyp> probably made by some marketing people that doesn't fully know what they're writing about
2022-11-25T23:22:53 < analoq> its from the st wiki. maybe it's not maintained
2022-11-25T23:23:52 < zyp> anyway, the short story is that some parts have two dwc_otg instances, i.e. two independent USB controllers
2022-11-25T23:25:17 < zyp> dwc_otg is a common usb controller they've licensed from synopsys, and can be synthesized with a bunch of different options
2022-11-25T23:26:30 < zyp> so for the part they've put two into, they've configured one to be only USB FS capable (12 Mb/s) and another to also be HS capable (480 Mb/s), and therefore named them OTG_FS and OTG_HS respectively
2022-11-25T23:28:03 < zyp> but to actually operate in HS mode, the OTG_HS core needs to be connected to an external transceiver, the internal transceiver for the OTG_HS core still only supports FS mode
2022-11-25T23:28:22 < zyp> so it's fairly dumb naming
2022-11-25T23:30:46 < zyp> maybe they thought calling them USB1 and USB2 would be equally confusing :)
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2022-11-25T23:38:34 < analoq> interesting.
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2022-11-25T23:49:58 < analoq> yey https://dpaste.com/GT4XF48W8.txt
2022-11-25T23:50:10 < analoq> it's not working but at least it's doing something :3
2022-11-25T23:50:19 < zyp> you've mixed up DM and DP
2022-11-25T23:50:32 < analoq> rly? i paid extra attention to that :O
2022-11-25T23:51:09 < zyp> not necessarily, but that's my best guess since it's detecting a LS device and not a FS device
2022-11-25T23:51:37 < zyp> FS devices have a pullup on DP, LS devices have a pullup on DM
2022-11-25T23:51:53 < zyp> so I'm guessing your host sees your DP pullup on the DM signal
2022-11-25T23:51:55 < analoq> beast. looks like you were right
2022-11-25T23:52:16 < zyp> I've done some USB :)
2022-11-25T23:52:47 < analoq> :D
--- Day changed la marras 26 2022
2022-11-26T00:00:16 < PaulFertser> https://beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml could be used as a great learning material.
2022-11-26T00:01:44 < zyp> it's a pretty nice introduction
2022-11-26T00:04:14 < zyp> but it's fairly old, covers LS and FS well, but not much about HS
2022-11-26T00:06:47 < PaulFertser> And doesn't even mention SS.
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2022-11-26T04:41:11 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/QXbKKUURysk
2022-11-26T04:41:13 < bitmask> woot
2022-11-26T04:41:13 < bitmask> woot
2022-11-26T04:41:22 < bitmask> its not jerky like the vid btw
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2022-11-26T14:43:12  * Laurence_b is failing at tarduino c++
2022-11-26T14:43:51 < Laurence_b> error: no matching function for call to 'File::getModifyTime(DateTimeFields*)'
2022-11-26T14:43:51 < Laurence_b>      timFile.getModifyTime(&tm);
2022-11-26T14:44:02 < Laurence_b> https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/LittleFS/blob/main/src/LittleFS.h#L65
2022-11-26T14:44:07 < Laurence_b> but its there? ^
2022-11-26T14:44:58 < specing> pointers in arduino? Ewwww
2022-11-26T14:48:47 < Laurence_b> hmm I failed at c++, it should just be    tm
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2022-11-26T15:02:16 < Laurence_b> MTP_class::PrintSteam()    -> PrintStream is not a member of MTP_class
2022-11-26T15:02:17 < Laurence_b> wut
2022-11-26T15:03:07 < Laurence_b> static inline Stream *PrintStream(void)
2022-11-26T15:06:08 < Laurence_b> nvm fixed it
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2022-11-26T16:32:15 < benishor_> is there any chance I can use gdb with a programming running in ram?
2022-11-26T16:33:57 < zyp> yes?
2022-11-26T16:37:51 < benishor_> how would I do that?
2022-11-26T16:44:07 < zyp> I think you need to elaborate on what exactly you're trying to do
2022-11-26T16:54:39 < specing> benishor_: gdb+openocd?
2022-11-26T16:54:42 < benishor_> most likely I need to read some more to get a better picture on how openocd + gdb interact with a running program
2022-11-26T16:58:32 < PaulFertser> benishor_: if your app is linked to run from RAM then debugging it will be no different to debugging something in flash (and without a limit for the breakpoints).
2022-11-26T17:03:14 < Laurence_b> anyone here ever used teensy?
2022-11-26T17:03:26 < Laurence_b> mine has gone into reboot loop with simple LED flash code
2022-11-26T17:04:51 < Laurence_b> prob something wrong with compiler config?
2022-11-26T17:07:26 < Laurence_b> hmm no actually most basic GPIO demo works, weird
2022-11-26T17:14:13 < Laurence_b> found this issue, snoozeblock causes reboot loop at power on
2022-11-26T17:18:43 < benishor> PaulFertser: thank you. will try now
2022-11-26T17:19:13 < benishor> andyes, it's linked to run from RAM. I will have to study how that is done too
2022-11-26T17:22:43 < catphish> this protocol spec is so cryptically written :( https://i.imgur.com/9zlbCm8.png
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2022-11-26T17:34:24 < benishor> PaulFertser: https://pastebin.com/quTBpvV5
2022-11-26T17:34:38 < benishor> when I connect with gdb to openocd's gdb server
2022-11-26T17:36:15 < PaulFertser> benishor: hm, either there's a bug in stlink firmware version you have there, or it's a USB connectivity issue, or the target somehow does something bad to stlink.
2022-11-26T17:37:01 < PaulFertser> And probably you will have better luck with same firmware version but using stlink_dap config.
2022-11-26T17:37:01 < benishor_> most likely the target does something bad to stlink
2022-11-26T17:37:12 < benishor_> since I can properly download and debug flash written thinggies
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2022-11-26T17:48:01 < benishor> hmmm .. telneting to 4444 I can issue halt/resume commands to openocd
2022-11-26T17:48:10 < benishor> and nothing times out/breaks
2022-11-26T17:48:30 < benishor> so why does gdb not work..
2022-11-26T17:49:35 < benishor> openocd 0.11.0 + arm-none-eabi-gdb 10.2.90.20210621-git
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2022-11-26T18:57:48 < benishor> PaulFertser: did some more digging. the bootloader apparently is doing something
2022-11-26T18:58:36 < benishor> I'm using a daisy seed board (https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy/daisy) which provide their own bootloader for programs which exceed the 128K flash of the stm32h750 chip 
2022-11-26T18:58:55 < benishor> I burnt a blinky on the flash and checked that openocd + gdb  works
2022-11-26T18:59:12 < benishor> I then burnt the same blinky linked for running from RAM
2022-11-26T18:59:34 < benishor> and the very same problem appeared when trying to run connect with gdb
2022-11-26T19:00:00 < benishor> so question is, what can possibly the bootloader do in order to mess with swd?
2022-11-26T19:02:26 < benishor> another problem is they didn't open source the bootloader so I am in the dark here
2022-11-26T19:08:46 < benishor> I could write a simple bootloader if I just knew what needs to be done
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2022-11-26T19:09:55 < benishor> say I have a program linked to run from RAM, how do I actually make it run from RAM? I can store it in the onboard QSPI and then transfer it to sram on boot, but is that a simple matter of copying things around?
2022-11-26T19:22:27 < PaulFertser> benishor: have you tried stlink_dap yet?
2022-11-26T19:23:38 < PaulFertser> benishor: you should be able to do "mon reset halt" and then "load" in GDB to upload your whole application to RAM, and then check the stack pointer with "i r" and then you can "stepi" to see how it starts executing.
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2022-11-26T20:51:47 < benishor> PaulFertser: no, I don't know what stlink_dap is yet
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2022-11-26T21:22:01 < PaulFertser> benishor: that's another config for stlink and it uses lower level access.
2022-11-26T21:24:07 < benishor> PaulFertser: I tried openocd -f /usr/share/openocd/scripts/interface/stlink-dap.cfg -f /usr/share/openocd/scripts/board/stm32h750b-disco.cfg
2022-11-26T21:24:19 < benishor> but I get this
2022-11-26T21:24:30 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/TruLDvTd
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2022-11-26T21:30:42 < PaulFertser> benishor: btw, you can omit /usr/share/openocd/scripts/
2022-11-26T21:31:04 < PaulFertser> benishor: do not source the disco config, source target config for this.
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2022-11-27T15:00:47 < jpa-> looks like bad solderjoints will fail even if you encase them in epoxy
2022-11-27T15:00:59 < jpa-> surprisingly i was able to tear the epoxy off and resolder
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2022-11-27T15:58:34 < Steffanx-> why you do bad solder joints jpa- ?
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2022-11-27T16:01:46 < jpa-> because i'm a bad person
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2022-11-27T16:54:43 < Steffanx-> I forgive you, jpa- 
2022-11-27T16:56:33 < jpa-> just to punish myself for it, i fixed one solder joint, epoxied it back up, noticed another bad joint, tore the epoxy again and redid it
2022-11-27T16:56:55 < jpa-> but i trust my soldering enough that i left the 2 other solder joints untouched
2022-11-27T17:00:30 < Steffanx-> What's this thing? 
2022-11-27T17:01:15 < jpa-> lamp
2022-11-27T17:02:00 < jpa-> i don't know why they don't sell reasonable bike tail lights: press on, press off; instead they sell "press bazillion times to get different blinks"
2022-11-27T17:02:10 < jpa-> so had to install greenpak chip in it years ago
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2022-11-27T17:10:51 < Steffanx-> Oh its years old epoxy.
2022-11-27T17:10:53 < qyx> ol
2022-11-27T17:21:42 < Steffanx-> Mine has multiple modes too. But press is on, press is next mode, and long press is off
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2022-11-27T17:31:18 < Steffanx-> And it remembers the mode when you turn it off.
2022-11-27T17:31:55 < Steffanx-> i hate the pcb-style usb plug though. not sure why i bought this
2022-11-27T17:37:17 < PaulFertser> You know there're popular drivers for LED flashlights based on attiny and people developed dozens of firmwares for it: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/trunk/files
2022-11-27T17:54:51 < benishor> ok, so I did some more reading on how arm cortex starts up
2022-11-27T17:55:22 < benishor> and here's a question: suppose you link for sram execution . this means that the isr vector will be relocated at 0x200.. something
2022-11-27T17:55:52 < benishor> will it be enough to simply load SP to 0x2000000 and PC to SP+4 to run?
2022-11-27T17:56:20 < benishor> or does the isr vector need to be specifically moved to 0x0800004?
2022-11-27T17:57:00 < benishor> (ate an 0 there)
2022-11-27T17:58:02 < PaulFertser> benishor: with Cortex-M3 you have VTOR register to set the vector table location. But with M0 iirc there's something different.
2022-11-27T17:58:12 < benishor> and with M7?
2022-11-27T17:58:19 < PaulFertser> VTOR
2022-11-27T17:58:37 < benishor> is there a way to set VTOR from within openocd?
2022-11-27T17:59:37 < PaulFertser> Yes, mww
2022-11-27T18:00:22 < benishor> ok, so the sequence would be: load_image, reg sp, reg (vtor address), resume entrypoint ?
2022-11-27T18:00:22 < PaulFertser> mww 0xE000ED0C 0x20000000
2022-11-27T18:00:25 < PaulFertser> or something
2022-11-27T18:01:04 < benishor> thank you PaulFertser for your help
2022-11-27T18:01:32 < PaulFertser> I hope you'll get it figured out eventually. I never tried to run fully from RAM.
2022-11-27T18:01:36 < benishor> I intend to ditch the closed source daisy seed bootloader and write something custom which I can change to my liking
2022-11-27T18:02:04 < benishor> PaulFertser: I am certain I will eventually figure it out, I suffer from ocd :D
2022-11-27T18:02:21 < benishor> so I am unable to stop
2022-11-27T18:02:45 < PaulFertser> :D
2022-11-27T18:03:12 < benishor> how are things in russia?
2022-11-27T18:03:13 < PaulFertser> Sometimes people really come to #openocd hoping to discuss OCD.
2022-11-27T18:03:23 < benishor> PaulFertser: :D poor people
2022-11-27T18:04:43 < PaulFertser> benishor: for the time being "mobilisation" is on pause, probably till January, and people are free to leave the country.
2022-11-27T18:05:45 < benishor> PaulFertser: aren't IT people saved from it?
2022-11-27T18:05:56 < benishor> suddenly jamal realised brain leakage is not fun
2022-11-27T18:06:55 < PaulFertser> benishor: not all, just some working for a set of specially licensed companies, and also it's not really saving, officially it's just a delay, and they can change the rules at any moment later.
2022-11-27T18:08:34 < benishor> quite sad
2022-11-27T18:08:41 < PaulFertser> Not sure what else I can clarify, basically, I'm reading the same news everyone has access to.
2022-11-27T18:08:44 < benishor> managing to fuck up two countries
2022-11-27T18:09:25 < benishor> I thought you had "inside info"
2022-11-27T18:09:27 < PaulFertser> It's driving nuts sad.
2022-11-27T18:11:15 < PaulFertser> I'm just reading meduza.io, no inside info at all.
2022-11-27T18:12:10 < benishor> vtor on m7 seems to be at 0xE000ED08
2022-11-27T18:12:48 < benishor> PaulFertser: what did you mean by this? <PaulFertser> benishor: do not source the disco config, source target config for this.
2022-11-27T18:12:59 < benishor> the last part, sourcing target config for this
2022-11-27T18:13:14 < PaulFertser> benishor: -f interface/stlink-dap.cfg -f target/stm32h7x.cfg
2022-11-27T18:13:19 < benishor> ah
2022-11-27T18:13:22 < benishor> got it
2022-11-27T18:13:39 < benishor> would it make a difference? since they use the same mcu?
2022-11-27T18:14:18 < PaulFertser> stlink-dap might make a difference. But sourcing board config after that doesn't work as the board config includes conflicting interface config.
2022-11-27T18:16:52 < benishor> we
2022-11-27T18:16:55 < benishor> will see :)
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2022-11-27T18:31:57 < benishor> PaulFertser: wow! thank you! the stlink-dap trick worked wonders, I can debug the thing executing in RAM
2022-11-27T18:32:13 < PaulFertser> benishor: cool!
2022-11-27T18:32:15 < benishor> seems like I'm going to delay the bootstraping problem
2022-11-27T18:32:30 < benishor> erm, writing a bootloader that is
2022-11-27T18:33:25 < benishor> and if I could just make swd tracing work it would rock
2022-11-27T18:34:07 < PaulFertser> benishor: tracing as in ETM or as in getting some debug data from ITM?
2022-11-27T18:34:32 < benishor> PaulFertser:  the latter
2022-11-27T18:34:59 < PaulFertser> benishor: then it should be pretty easy, stlink supports capturing SWO.
2022-11-27T18:35:21 < PaulFertser> benishor: see "tpiu" commands
2022-11-27T18:36:32 < PaulFertser> The doc even has example code for the target.
2022-11-27T18:37:29 < benishor> PaulFertser: you mean the openocd doc?
2022-11-27T18:37:45 < PaulFertser> benishor: yes
2022-11-27T18:37:59 < benishor> thanks! I am very happy with having the debugger working
2022-11-27T18:38:06 < benishor> man that was a bitch
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2022-11-27T18:38:42 < PaulFertser> And itmdump is pretty primitive, you might enjoy https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum more
2022-11-27T18:39:18 < benishor> yeah, I think karlp or jpa- linked orbuculum a while back
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2022-11-27T19:32:32 < bitmask> I made the mistake of looking at an example UI and now I can't think of any way to make my own UI without copying everything from that one
2022-11-27T19:32:46 < Steffanx-> Then it must be amazing.
2022-11-27T19:33:12 < bitmask> no, I just dont know what makes a good UI and have no ideas on the matter
2022-11-27T19:33:24 < bitmask> and it looks pretty good
2022-11-27T19:35:23 < bitmask> https://hazelengine.com/res/HazelBG.jpg
2022-11-27T19:36:06 < bitmask> I guess if you are making a game engine theres not much choice in the matter, its gonna look something like that
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2022-11-27T19:41:41 < PaulFertser> Why would be anybody using lead acid for EV in 2022? http://www.jiayuan-ev.es/products.html
2022-11-27T19:43:31 < PaulFertser> 150 km on a single 12V 120Ah?
2022-11-27T19:44:17 < bitmask> 5 or 6
2022-11-27T19:44:20 < bitmask> not single
2022-11-27T19:44:53 < bitmask> 5 120 or 6 100
2022-11-27T19:45:15 < PaulFertser> Ah, I missed that part as it makes no sense because battery is already a series of elements.
2022-11-27T19:46:28 < PaulFertser> I just saw that car in RL, apparently used to get around the town, not some PR stunt or anything, so there's a market for them?
2022-11-27T19:47:54 < bitmask> crazy that the high speed and regular speed have the same Ah rating and the high speed motor is more than twice as powerful
2022-11-27T19:48:25 < bitmask> but I guess if you are using lead acid you cant add that much extra weight or the more powerful motor is useless
2022-11-27T19:49:11 < PaulFertser> Hah
2022-11-27T19:50:03 < PaulFertser> I'd prefer Bajaj Qute
2022-11-27T19:50:22 < PaulFertser> And it got sequential gearbox :)
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2022-11-27T20:48:42 < zyp> bitmask, gasoline cars with multiple engine options usually have the same fuel tank size for all of them too
2022-11-27T20:50:48 < PaulFertser> But that's not really limiting as you fill the full tank in minutes. BTW, you say gasoline, not petrol in NO?
2022-11-27T20:51:03 < zyp> no, we say «bensin»
2022-11-27T20:51:04 < bitmask> sure but its usually not a difference of over twice as powerful but apparently the range isn't twice as much so there are other factors.
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2022-11-27T20:51:13 < zyp> but that's in norwegian :)
2022-11-27T20:51:23 < PaulFertser> Russians zay benzin.
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2022-11-27T20:52:53 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of teensy
2022-11-27T20:53:03 < Laurence_b> MTP dates are off by 3 days
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2022-11-27T20:53:37 < zyp> my point is that the battery weren't selected for the current capacity but range
2022-11-27T20:53:52 < zyp> so it presumably still has plenty of capacity to run the larger motor
2022-11-27T20:54:18 < zyp> Laurence_b, MTP?
2022-11-27T20:54:19 < PaulFertser> But they say with the larger motor it has considerably less range.
2022-11-27T20:54:53 < zyp> well, yeah, if you go faster, you get more air resistance :)
2022-11-27T20:54:54 < Laurence_b> zyp: weird microsoft zune shit that teensy uses rather than mass storage class
2022-11-27T20:55:09 < zyp> ah, the USB class
2022-11-27T20:55:09 < Laurence_b> odd thing is the code looks correct to me.. but it clearly isnt
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2022-11-27T21:00:33 < Laurence_b_> maybe there is a bug in windozer
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2022-11-27T21:11:18 < PaulFertser> Isn't MTP what android offers?
2022-11-27T21:12:03 < PaulFertser> zyp: no, they specify Range(km) 40km/h: 150 (low speed version) 120 (high speed)
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2022-11-27T22:01:01 < kaki> hello innovation
2022-11-27T22:04:48 < kaki> forgot to ircs
2022-11-27T22:09:17 < Steffanx-> What is IRC?
2022-11-27T22:09:39 < qyx> irc is dead
2022-11-27T22:09:45 < kaki> it's the oposing force of IRL
2022-11-27T22:13:31 < kaki> I have been preoccupied about servicing my new car
2022-11-27T22:13:37 < kaki> it owns me now
2022-11-27T22:13:58 < kaki> new meaning late 2ooos
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2022-11-27T22:18:17  * Laurence_b has grabbed USB data with wireshark
2022-11-27T22:18:36 < Laurence_b> timestamps match what windozer reports, looks like issue is on the teensy
2022-11-27T22:28:04 < kaki> hello lurence
2022-11-27T22:28:19 < kaki> hyperboy
2022-11-27T22:29:29 < kaki> what you use teensy for?
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2022-11-27T22:51:13 < Laurence_b> datalogger
2022-11-27T22:51:15 < Laurence_b> ooh
2022-11-27T22:51:48 < Laurence_b> if I copy a file onto the drive, I see correct timestamp going to teensy, then timestamp + 1 day getting echoed back
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2022-11-27T23:13:33 < Steffanx-> with esp32 you woudlve been done alreadyu
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2022-11-27T23:28:00 < Laurence_b> oh I bet I know
2022-11-27T23:28:15 < Laurence_b> tarduino libs calculate leap years incorrectly
2022-11-27T23:28:59 < Laurence_b> the MTP logic looks ok, but it uses arduino time libs with dates in absolute years, not years since 2000
2022-11-27T23:29:34 < Laurence_b> its probably only off by one day, but the overcomplex logic passes dates back and forth several times
2022-11-27T23:29:56 < Laurence_b> Steffanx-: you realise ESP32 is basically teensy right
2022-11-27T23:30:03 < Laurence_b> inb4 he is trolling
2022-11-27T23:30:19 < Laurence_b> almost all the code is the same
2022-11-27T23:30:25 < Steffanx-> :P
--- Day changed ma marras 28 2022
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2022-11-28T00:38:31 < Laurence_b> hmm yeah looks like an error of one day occurs whilst data is loaded into and out of littleFS metadata struct using tarduino functions
2022-11-28T00:51:20 < qyx> is littlefs actually usable now
2022-11-28T00:51:32 < qyx> it was spiffs >> littlefs in the past, wasn'tit?
2022-11-28T00:52:39 < Laurence_b> I think so
2022-11-28T00:53:01 < Laurence_b> its working ofr me, apart from dates being off by integer days
2022-11-28T00:53:05 < Laurence_b> Merging feminist postcolonial science studies and feminist political ecology, the feminist glaciology framework generates robust analysis of gender, power, and epistemologies in dynamic social-ecological systems, thereby leading to more just and equitable science and human-ice interaction
2022-11-28T00:57:28 < Laurence_b> keeek the comments
2022-11-28T00:58:14 < Laurence_b> This paper answers for me a deep question of human existence. Why are we here? Apparently, the universe created the conditions that led to our eventual evolution in order to create maximum entertainment value. Ask yourself this, is the human race not getting more and more entertaining?
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2022-11-28T02:22:33 < Laurence_b> hmm all dates are correct for 1st Jan 1970
2022-11-28T02:22:47 < Laurence_b> looks like it accumulates error as the date increases
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2022-11-28T06:15:52 < jadew> https://i.redd.it/10d26yghvj2a1.jpg
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2022-11-28T12:15:27 < benishor> damn, tud_umount_cb() does not get triggered on my stm32h7 when I unplug the usb cable
2022-11-28T12:15:59 < benishor> I am using the dwc2 driver
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2022-11-28T12:31:41 < Laurence_b> http://pastie.org/p/4LyX9GRA8z2OjQgJYicWDs
2022-11-28T12:31:45 < Laurence_b> I don't get it
2022-11-28T12:31:59 < Laurence_b> Arduino teensy time code is off by one day
2022-11-28T12:33:41 < karlp> I'm more impressed that they calculate in a uint32, returna  uint32, but cast it to a time_t in between.
2022-11-28T12:35:37 < Laurence_b> hmm actually problem might be here
2022-11-28T12:35:40 < Laurence_b> #define LEAP_YEAR(Y)     ( ((1970+(Y))>0) && !((1970+(Y))%4) && ( ((1970+(Y))%100) || !((1970+(Y))%400) ) )
2022-11-28T12:35:50 < Laurence_b> I think it needs >= at start
2022-11-28T12:39:00 < zyp> the >0 looks pointless
2022-11-28T12:39:09 < Laurence_b> hmm no 1970 isnt divisible by 4
2022-11-28T12:39:12 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-11-28T12:39:26 < zyp> 1970 > 0 anyway
2022-11-28T12:39:29 < Laurence_b> derp
2022-11-28T12:39:46 < Laurence_b> I wasnt reading the 1970 for some reason...
2022-11-28T12:39:48 < zyp> and year 0 isn't expressable in a 32-bit time_t
2022-11-28T12:41:26 < Laurence_b> I think I spotted it, issue is on line 20
2022-11-28T12:41:50 < Laurence_b> Tarduino defines year zero as 1900, so that leap year calculation is using wrong offset
2022-11-28T12:41:51 < qyx> - 70 is missing?
2022-11-28T12:41:55 < Laurence_b> yeah
2022-11-28T12:42:57 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of arduino
2022-11-28T12:43:29 < qyx> why are they using 1900 or 2000?
2022-11-28T12:43:40 < qyx> and why are they used for () instead of some math?
2022-11-28T12:44:49 < zyp> I think you got it the wrong way around, I think error is the -70 on line 13
2022-11-28T12:45:01 < zyp> since LEAP_YEAR() expects offset from 1970
2022-11-28T12:45:57 < Laurence_b> I think I was right, as input year of 70 means 1970, so year of 0 when calculating unix time
2022-11-28T12:46:04 < benishor> qyx: because I assume compiler can optimize for static values
2022-11-28T12:46:20 < zyp> Laurence_b, just remove the -70 from line 13, rebuild and test
2022-11-28T12:46:24 < zyp> then tell me I was right
2022-11-28T12:49:40 < Laurence_b> nope it was line 20
2022-11-28T12:55:42 < zyp> oh, right, the comment on line 4 is wrong
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2022-11-28T13:45:58 < Laurence_b> Stream::flush() {
2022-11-28T13:45:59 < Laurence_b>   //I'm not sure what to do here...
2022-11-28T13:46:02 < Laurence_b> WTF Tarduino
2022-11-28T13:46:13 < Laurence_b> there I was wondering why flush didnt work
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2022-11-28T14:00:13 < Laurence_b> noice
2022-11-28T14:00:19 < Laurence_b> MTP all working correctly
2022-11-28T14:00:39 < Laurence_b> had to patch 4 different core tarduino libs
2022-11-28T14:08:51 < benishor> trying to test swd tracing on the stm32h7 board. I made the most basic blinky with cubemx, selected "trace async sw" and calling ITM_SendChar('a'); in a loop
2022-11-28T14:09:10 < benishor> openocd.cfg has
2022-11-28T14:09:14 < benishor> tpiu config internal :3443 uart off 480000000 1000000
2022-11-28T14:09:15 < benishor> itm ports on
2022-11-28T14:09:19 < benishor> orbcat connects but I do not see any output
2022-11-28T14:12:23 < zyp> did you tell orbcat to output any channels?
2022-11-28T14:12:49 < zyp> e.g. -c0,"%c"
2022-11-28T14:14:27 < benishor> yes
2022-11-28T14:15:54 < benishor> not really sure how to debug further
2022-11-28T14:17:18 < PaulFertser> benishor: can you check if you get anything at all on SWO line with an oscilloscope?
2022-11-28T14:17:57 < PaulFertser> Probably the pinmux config generated by cubemx doesn't include SWO pin?
2022-11-28T14:18:19 < zyp> is the 48MHz correct?
2022-11-28T14:18:32 < benishor> 480MHz should be
2022-11-28T14:18:40 < zyp> ah, 480
2022-11-28T14:20:00 < zyp> hmm, IIRC the h7 has some of the trace infrastructure clocked from a dedicated PLL tap, not sure whether that's used for SWO, but if so it might need configuration
2022-11-28T14:20:23 < PaulFertser> The target config in OpenOCD seems to handle that in examine-end handler.
2022-11-28T14:20:47 < zyp> ah, I'm not familiar with openocd for trace
2022-11-28T14:21:27 < benishor> I am sourcing interface/stlink.cfg and target/stm32h7x.cfg
2022-11-28T14:21:33 < zyp> but yeah, scoping the SWO signal would be a good start, lets you check both if there's anything at all and if the speed is correct
2022-11-28T14:22:30 < zyp> if you've got data there, I'd try «nc localhost 3443 | hexdump -C» to check if openocd is outputting anything at all
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2022-11-28T14:23:11 < zyp> and if you don't have data there, you might want to inspect the relevant registers in the debugger
2022-11-28T14:24:10 < benishor> do I need to probe with the stlink connected?
2022-11-28T14:24:41 < zyp> what?
2022-11-28T14:24:47 < benishor> the swo pin
2022-11-28T14:24:55 < zyp> ah, yes
2022-11-28T14:25:04 < zyp> I mean, you need to set it up to output data
2022-11-28T14:25:22 < benishor> let me find a way to hook up a probe
2022-11-28T14:39:27 < benishor> nope, nothing on swo pin
2022-11-28T14:39:56 < zyp> problem is the target config somewhere then
2022-11-28T14:40:13 < zyp> e.g. the pinmux config PaulFertser mentioned
2022-11-28T14:41:49 < benishor> so what should I be doing?
2022-11-28T14:42:30 < zyp> start by checking how the SWO pin is configured?
2022-11-28T14:44:44 < benishor> no configuration 
2022-11-28T14:47:34 < PaulFertser> In cubemx you select how to configure SWD and SWO pins.
2022-11-28T14:50:21 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/E0z44AF
2022-11-28T14:51:06 < benishor> SWD is OK since I can debug 
2022-11-28T14:52:11 < benishor> as I said, app is most basic: https://pastebin.com/WbBKfDGy
2022-11-28T14:52:21 < zyp> probably something on a higher layer that's not configured correctly then
2022-11-28T14:58:07 < karlp> itm_sendchar probably hasn't enabled any channels?
2022-11-28T14:58:22 < karlp> at one stage, openocd hard enabled channel 0, not sure if it still does
2022-11-28T14:58:39 < zyp> peeking ITM_TER should tell you that
2022-11-28T14:58:47 < karlp> fuck I hate reading cube code.
2022-11-28T14:58:55 < zyp> :)
2022-11-28T14:59:04 < benishor> sorry, I wanted to clean it up
2022-11-28T14:59:08 < karlp> notyour fault.
2022-11-28T14:59:20 < benishor> so peeking ITM_TER should tell me what?
2022-11-28T14:59:48 < karlp> there's 32 ITM channels, all individually enabled,
2022-11-28T14:59:57 < karlp> if you write to a disabled channel, it just gets disabled, to outputted.
2022-11-28T15:00:08 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/KDVY2C9b
2022-11-28T15:00:30 < karlp> yeah, so you want a 1 in TER :)
2022-11-28T15:00:32 < benishor> that's the ITM_SendChar() in core_cm7.h and I can see ITM->PORT[0U].u8 being set
2022-11-28T15:00:49 < karlp> eyah, but that means nothign if TER bit 0 is zero...
2022-11-28T15:00:50 < benishor> ah, I see
2022-11-28T15:01:07 < benishor> well, if TER bit 0 is 0 it wouldn't end up setting the ITM->PORT[0U].u8
2022-11-28T15:01:16 < benishor> since the initial condition would fail
2022-11-28T15:02:17 < karlp> iirc, "itm port 0 on" in openocd.
2022-11-28T15:03:03 < karlp> (bear it in mind for later though, when you want to use other channels, as I said, iirc oocd turns on port 0 by defualt for you, but you will want to contorl them later)
2022-11-28T15:03:46 < benishor> ITM_SendChar() checks whether ITM is enabled and port 0 enabled
2022-11-28T15:04:00 < karlp> I suspectyou might have a dividier issue at 480Mhz.
2022-11-28T15:04:06 < benishor> I can debug that and see that my data gets sent to the ITM port
2022-11-28T15:06:28 < karlp> how did you pick the 1M rate for the final clock? you should be able to leave it off and let it autoselect
2022-11-28T15:06:52 < karlp> but otherwise, yeah, that's about all I never need.
2022-11-28T15:10:33 < benishor> I left it off, like tpiu config internal :3443 uart off 480000000
2022-11-28T15:10:43 < benishor> goddamn it, swo
2022-11-28T15:11:38 < karlp> might be something more for h7 then, somewhere, because that's all I do for l1 shits..
2022-11-28T15:12:52 < benishor> https://gist.github.com/tstellanova/107cb66cd0599fa20cca1fce9556468c
2022-11-28T15:12:55 < benishor> coiuld this be it?
2022-11-28T15:13:36 < benishor> s/coiuld/could
2022-11-28T15:15:15 < karlp> that's stuff oocd should be doing automatically for you
2022-11-28T15:15:51 < karlp> unless that trace funnel is an extra h7 thing?
2022-11-28T15:15:54 < karlp> I'd have to double check.
2022-11-28T15:18:56 < karlp> line 19 looks special,
2022-11-28T15:19:14 < karlp> maybe line 6 as well
2022-11-28T15:21:04 < karlp> yeah, that paste is using a different address for SWO_LAR as well,
2022-11-28T15:22:54 < benishor> so what should I be trying?
2022-11-28T15:23:42 < karlp> definitely add the swtf shits, that's not on any m3/m4 I've traced with, 
2022-11-28T15:24:07 < karlp> you can probabyl just turn them on from gdb writes, and you can probabyl do it with the right events in oocd, but not sure which they are off the tope of my head.
2022-11-28T15:24:13 < karlp> I've only just opened the h7 ref man
2022-11-28T15:26:36 < karlp> ah, the reason for the different addresses i because that's access them from code space
2022-11-28T15:26:52 < karlp> table 578 in RM0433 rev6
2022-11-28T15:27:31 < karlp> "!The SWO trace funnel (SWTF) must
2022-11-28T15:27:33 < karlp> be programmed to enable the trace bus from the Cortex-M7 ITM before trace is enabled
2022-11-28T15:28:35 < karlp> this seems to be handled in the h7 target scripts alreadyd though...
2022-11-28T15:30:02 < benishor> I'm still at lost
2022-11-28T15:30:40 < karlp> https://review.openocd.org/gitweb?p=openocd.git;a=blob;f=tcl/target/stm32h7x.cfg;h=5aae93861909293c1ab4f67d8a86c66c24691506;hb=refs/heads/master#l198
2022-11-28T15:31:37 < karlp> by my reading, some earlier h7 users already got this working and merged, so it should all still be in the "just works" box, and obviosuly, it's not, so you're running out of what I can help with :)
2022-11-28T15:31:52 < benishor> crap
2022-11-28T15:32:01 < benishor> :/
2022-11-28T15:32:36 < benishor> maybe I don't run the latest openocd
2022-11-28T15:32:57 < karlp> you're on 0.11 release right? 
2022-11-28T15:33:09 < karlp> yeah, that commit that introduces that doesn't seem to be in any tagged releases yet
2022-11-28T15:33:22 < benishor> it's only the script, isn't it?
2022-11-28T15:33:30 < karlp> I didn't look.
2022-11-28T15:33:43 < benishor> hold my beer
2022-11-28T15:33:46 < karlp> but honestly, just try and build latest, it's in RC stage for a new release anyway
2022-11-28T15:34:02 < karlp> and if it doesn't work, grab antonio in openocd.
2022-11-28T15:35:52 < karlp> the fact that there's h7's with and without swtf makes it super fun.
2022-11-28T15:37:24 < benishor> I only get the wtf part of swtf
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2022-11-28T15:43:03 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/aegsD0kL
2022-11-28T15:43:09 < benishor> with the HEAD openocd
2022-11-28T15:43:44 < benishor> output looks like it should work
2022-11-28T15:45:04 < benishor> finally ! getting some output on port 3443!!!!!!1
2022-11-28T15:45:49 < benishor> the rate at which I receive data is good but the content is bogus
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2022-11-28T15:48:06 < PaulFertser> benishor: what are you receiving with? You need to decode the data by some means.
2022-11-28T15:49:15 < benishor> PaulFertser: tried orbcat, did not yield any result so I netcated into it and checked the hex output
2022-11-28T15:49:48 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/0Fc0YTLY
2022-11-28T15:50:09 < benishor> and the sending code is a simple: ITM_SendChar(i++); where i is uint8_t
2022-11-28T15:50:28 < benishor> the rate at which the content comes is however right
2022-11-28T15:51:14 < karlp> orbcat -s localhost:3443 -c0,%d should be all you ned
2022-11-28T15:51:33 < benishor> no cigar
2022-11-28T15:51:34 < karlp> but your hexdump looks kinda bogus.
2022-11-28T15:51:41 < benishor> that's what I'm saying
2022-11-28T15:52:42 < benishor> only 00, 78, 80 and f8
2022-11-28T15:53:01 < zyp> looks like you got the baudrate or format wrong
2022-11-28T15:53:31 < zyp> 78 is 01111000, etc…
2022-11-28T15:53:58 < benishor> most likely the baudrate
2022-11-28T15:54:33 < zyp> try dividing that 480MHz by 4 or something
2022-11-28T15:54:41 < zyp> i.e. write 120MHz instead
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2022-11-28T15:55:05 < benishor> wtf!
2022-11-28T15:55:09 < benishor> you are a genius! it works
2022-11-28T15:55:23 < benishor> but how? why?
2022-11-28T15:55:49 < zyp> there's probably a /4 division somewhere that openocd doesn't know about
2022-11-28T15:56:15 < benishor> thank you guys!
2022-11-28T15:56:20 < benishor> you saved my ass
2022-11-28T15:57:25 < benishor> that was quite a wild ride
2022-11-28T15:57:28 < zyp> I used to have to check the swo baudrate with a scope to get it right
2022-11-28T15:57:46 < benishor> I would have, except I didn't have swo output before
2022-11-28T15:57:48 < zyp> really happy the autobauding swo stuff in orbtrace put an end to that :p
2022-11-28T15:59:39 < zyp> now I just tell the mcu to «give me swo at /4» and doesn't have to care whether it's dividing from 64 to 16 or 32 to 8 or whatever
2022-11-28T16:01:12 < benishor> so how come it didn't work for me? 
2022-11-28T16:01:22 < benishor> or what must I do to get that?
2022-11-28T16:02:01 < zyp> buy an orbtrace ;)
2022-11-28T16:04:52 < karlp> well, that only fixes part of it,
2022-11-28T16:05:05 < karlp> curiosu where the /4 is though.
2022-11-28T16:06:11 < benishor> and now it doesn't seem to work anymore. wtf
2022-11-28T16:07:30 < benishor> ok, back to working
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2022-11-28T16:30:26 < Laurence_b> any lunix gurus here?
2022-11-28T16:30:44 < Laurence_b> I dont know the format of  /var/lib/dhcpcd/eth0.lease
2022-11-28T16:30:49 < Laurence_b> looks like some sort of binary
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2022-11-28T16:34:12 < jpa-> Laurence_b: to me it seems the leasefile just contains the ethernet packet for latest DHCP response received
2022-11-28T16:34:28 < Laurence_b> oh noice
2022-11-28T16:34:36 < Laurence_b> thats just what I need
2022-11-28T16:34:50 < qyx> that's pretty weird
2022-11-28T16:34:53 < jpa-> dhcpcd --dumplease eth0   will convert it to text
2022-11-28T16:35:05 < Laurence_b> ok
2022-11-28T16:35:24 < Laurence_b> qyx: my ethernet hardware is misbehaving
2022-11-28T16:35:36 < qyx> and that's pretty common
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2022-11-28T20:26:00 < catphish_> omg chip shortage properly over?! https://i.imgur.com/ZI40xCv.png
2022-11-28T20:29:03 < lemmi> it's been like that for a couple of weeks. but they regularly run out of stock. sometimes within a few days
2022-11-28T20:29:08 < machinehum> Finally, we can go back to making... whatever we make here
2022-11-28T20:29:36 < machinehum> I for one and sticking with the theme of designing stuff that is only designed in China
2022-11-28T20:29:51 < machinehum> My USB drive isn't working and I think it's because of the flash
2022-11-28T20:30:08 < machinehum> I wonder if length matching is an issue
2022-11-28T20:33:19 < catphish_> i have a more general question - i like to write stm32 code using raw register access and using ST's header files (which define the register addresses), i compile the code on linux wiht gcc, is there s *correct* way to package up such code so that other people can work with it? i assume makefile? but what about downloading / finding the headers?
2022-11-28T20:33:53 < machinehum> Why not include the headers in the repo?
2022-11-28T20:33:59 < lemmi> yes. just vendor them
2022-11-28T20:34:12 < catphish_> vendor them?
2022-11-28T20:34:26 < machinehum> I would also like to know what that means
2022-11-28T20:34:29 < zyp> either bundle the header or put it in a separate git repo that you link in as a submodule
2022-11-28T20:34:49 < zyp> the latter has the advantage that it'd be reusable across projects
2022-11-28T20:35:06 < catphish_> i guess ST don't publish them as a git repo?
2022-11-28T20:35:10 < catphish_> that would be even better
2022-11-28T20:35:16 < lemmi> it's what the cool kids say to "just copy it into your repo", i think. using submodules is also a good way to circumvent license issues
2022-11-28T20:35:17 < zyp> I think they do
2022-11-28T20:35:44 < zyp> here's the F4 shit: https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4
2022-11-28T20:35:46 < zyp> etc…
2022-11-28T20:36:12 < catphish_> oh yeah, that looks like exacty what i want, i can submodule in that
2022-11-28T20:36:34 < catphish_> then everything else i can hopefully do with a makefile
2022-11-28T20:36:56 < catphish_> *submodule that in
2022-11-28T20:37:18 < machinehum> I like submodules
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2022-11-28T20:38:16 < catphish_> that sounds like it should work, thanks
2022-11-28T20:38:52 < zyp> if you like direct register access, maybe I should talk you into trying laks :)
2022-11-28T20:39:04 < karlp> hrm, whgat's going to be the easiest i2c eeprom interface I can get going from linux.
2022-11-28T20:39:27 < zyp> interface in what sense?
2022-11-28T20:39:33 < catphish_> does laks make my life easier?
2022-11-28T20:39:36 < karlp> cp2104 gpios? a linux sbc bitbanging gpios? a nucleo board with some arduino software...
2022-11-28T20:39:43 < zyp> pyftdi?
2022-11-28T20:39:50 < zyp> and a ft232h breakout
2022-11-28T20:39:59 < karlp> hrm, I wonder if I have any actual ft23x hardware around :|
2022-11-28T20:40:19 < karlp> I reckon there should be some arduino sketch shit I can use that makes it into an interface that falshrom or somethign supports?
2022-11-28T20:41:00 < zyp> probably
2022-11-28T20:41:31 < zyp> I should get a glasgow some time, seems neat for that sort of shit
2022-11-28T20:41:56 < karlp> hrm, flashrom seems to only want to talk to spi/parallel/shits
2022-11-28T20:42:12 < karlp> ah well, after dinner.
2022-11-28T20:42:21 < karlp> usb hubs came back, and it's pinstrapped for eeprom, which is blank
2022-11-28T20:42:31 < karlp> so it's trying to come up as a LS device or some garbage.
2022-11-28T20:42:36 < karlp> I thought it would come in in failsafe defaults.
2022-11-28T20:43:09 < zyp> haha
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2022-11-28T23:28:51 < karlp> you should just write some gateway for orbtrace mini surely ;)
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2022-11-28T23:39:17 < Laurence_b> That seals it, I’m no longer a Twitter user. Been a loyal supporter since 2006 and this is the final straw. Elon has turned this app into a disaster and it’s only getting worse. Deactivating tonight & taking my talents to Facebook where they know how to run an app Goodbye
2022-11-28T23:39:28 < Steffanx-> Bye
2022-11-28T23:39:42 < specing> lmao facebook
2022-11-28T23:40:06 < specing> Steffanx-: 100% it's a quote
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2022-11-28T23:41:40 < Laurence_b> its an ironic copypasta
2022-11-28T23:41:57 < Laurence_b> >Facebook >Not myspace
2022-11-28T23:41:59 < specing> yeah was pretty obvious
2022-11-28T23:42:33 < Steffanx-> I know, specing 
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2022-11-28T23:45:34 < Laurence_b> how will Musk recover from this
2022-11-28T23:46:54 < Laurence_b> >have locked down phones with signed firmware
2022-11-28T23:47:02 < Laurence_b> >surprised when it leads to this shit
2022-11-28T23:50:41 < Laurence_b> pity Nokia got Microshafted
2022-11-28T23:50:58 < Laurence_b> thats would have been an actually worthwhile phone ecosystem
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--- Day changed ti marras 29 2022
2022-11-29T00:07:05 < Steffanx-> Ok
2022-11-29T00:11:36 < rustyaxe> ol
2022-11-29T00:12:26 < rustyaxe> webos was pleasant for that brief bit before whats'er face at HP killed it. I wonder how LG's done with it on TeeVees
2022-11-29T00:14:45 < Laurence_b> more seriously, Musk needs to concentrate on starship, twitter was always retarded
2022-11-29T00:15:16 < rustyaxe> kill off all that social media and let us go back to forums and IRC like the founder (of internet) intended :o
2022-11-29T00:15:46 < rustyaxe> especially the browser based crap thats so heavy in jankyscript that it crawls
2022-11-29T00:15:57 < specing> Laurence_b: yup
2022-11-29T00:16:51 < Laurence_b> javashit
2022-11-29T00:16:52 < specing> Laurence_b: I see the starship test launch is still TBA and it was originally supposed to launch on march this year
2022-11-29T00:19:16 < karlp> rustyaxe: I quite like my lg tv interface, but it's a very sparse ecosystem.  there's netflix and disney and basic shit, plex thankfully, but don't expect to do much else...
2022-11-29T00:20:22 < rustyaxe> karlp: I had briefly a webos tablet and phone. Was very responsive. surprisingly so for being javacsript based "apps" :p
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2022-11-29T00:28:16 < Laurence_b> sheet my teensy is dead
2022-11-29T00:28:24 < Laurence_b> looks like dry joint on usb connector
2022-11-29T00:32:05 < specing> now you have a little deadsy
2022-11-29T00:38:08 < karlp> (i2c-tools example for esp32 flashes easily to a board I had, and seems to be working, now just to see if the hub will work )
2022-11-29T00:45:40 < karlp> well, at least it's now a 7 port hub highspeed being detected... little steps :)
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2022-11-29T10:41:16 < zyp> karlp, yeah, i2c, spi and uart functionality on the gpios of the orbtrace is on the TODO
2022-11-29T11:32:40 < benishor> ohai
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2022-11-29T13:53:52 < Laurence_b> https://i0.wp.com/pallavaggarwal.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/teensy-40-schematic.png?w=680&ssl=1
2022-11-29T13:53:58 < Laurence_b> ok now I'm confused
2022-11-29T13:54:13 < Laurence_b> teensy doesnt have a dry joint, it just wont reliably boot up
2022-11-29T13:54:28 < Laurence_b> the 3.3v LDO is disabled
2022-11-29T13:55:38 < Laurence_b> now I cant work out how this could ever work
2022-11-29T14:10:09 < jpa-> leakage through ESD diodes powering it up?
2022-11-29T14:11:15 < Laurence_b> something weird, yeah
2022-11-29T14:11:31 < Laurence_b> its got gradually worse, not it rarely boots
2022-11-29T14:12:06 < Laurence_b> maybe it needs vbat
2022-11-29T14:26:58 < Laurence_b> VDD_SNVS_IN supply must be turned on before any other power supply or be connected (shorted) with
2022-11-29T14:26:59 < Laurence_b> VDD_HIGH_IN supply.
2022-11-29T14:27:02 < Laurence_b> truly epic fail
2022-11-29T14:30:01 < Laurence_b> its a brick
2022-11-29T14:30:02 < zyp> and you're still using this shit
2022-11-29T14:30:13 < Laurence_b> wurk project
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2022-11-29T14:57:00 < Laurence_b> hmm actually there is method in the madness, there is a 2.5v LDO inside the USB controller that the teensy uses for low power modes and switch on
2022-11-29T14:57:19 < Laurence_b> I might be hitting the low voltage shutdown - it triggers at 4.4v
2022-11-29T15:02:33 < Laurence_b> nope
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2022-11-29T15:26:16 < Laurence_b> ok wtf
2022-11-29T15:26:24 < Laurence_b> it works with usb data lines disconnected
2022-11-29T15:29:29 < Laurence_b> ooh VUSB reaches 4.38v min during power on
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2022-11-29T15:30:15 < Laurence_b> I suspect usb LDO is getting undervoltage, for some reason undervoltage is disable if only usb data connected maybe
2022-11-29T15:32:59 < zyp> maybe it's doing some BC magic, BC has different undervoltage limits depending on BC mode
2022-11-29T15:33:15 < zyp> (IIRC)
2022-11-29T15:38:07 < qyx> anyone using github 2FA?
2022-11-29T15:39:24 < jpa-> qyx: i am
2022-11-29T15:42:02 < qyx> do you consider it safe? on android?
2022-11-29T15:42:28 < qyx> I mean from the lock-out possibility PoV
2022-11-29T15:44:07 < jpa-> i have the recovery codes stored elsewhere
2022-11-29T15:45:06 < catphish> qyx: keep recovery codes, problem solved, also use a 2FA app with backups
2022-11-29T15:46:37 < srk> haha. yes
2022-11-29T15:46:52 < qyx> thats not entirely true
2022-11-29T15:47:07 < qyx> recently I had no smart-device available for two weeks
2022-11-29T15:47:36 < srk> make sure you can backup 2FA app, I was using freeotp-ios and the only way to back it up is using full phone backup
2022-11-29T15:47:39 < srk> which sucks
2022-11-29T15:47:49 < catphish> qyx: well then you'll need a different way to generate your 2fa tokens
2022-11-29T15:48:19 < catphish> srk: i use authy, it backs up to cloud, not sure if i prefer that or one that backs up with my phone data, but both ways work :)
2022-11-29T15:48:40 < srk> yesterday I dropped my phone into tea, doing backups and switching app all day long today
2022-11-29T15:48:58 < jpa-> qyx: not even computer? how would you access github then anyway
2022-11-29T15:49:07 < srk> catphish: I don't want to backup to cloud tho
2022-11-29T15:49:15 < jpa-> there are plenty of TOTP apps for PC also
2022-11-29T15:49:18 < catphish> srk: well you have to back up somewhere :)
2022-11-29T15:49:24 < qyx> so those recovery codes are standard?
2022-11-29T15:49:30 < catphish> srk: my preference would probably be google (along with all my other android data)
2022-11-29T15:49:31 < srk> catphish: found a nice one which is 'OTP Auth'
2022-11-29T15:49:33 < qyx> sry, new to this hyped thing
2022-11-29T15:49:43 < srk> catphish: can export to file
2022-11-29T15:49:49 < jpa-> qyx: the recovery code is just a fancy name for a fallback password that you can use once
2022-11-29T15:49:52 < catphish> qyx: no, recovery codes are github thing
2022-11-29T15:50:05 < srk> google also has recovery codes
2022-11-29T15:50:06 < catphish> just a one time backdoor password
2022-11-29T15:50:12 < catphish> well yeah many people use them
2022-11-29T15:50:18 < catphish> but there's no standsard
2022-11-29T15:50:19 < jpa-> qyx: but TOTP tokens are standard, so you can put the same TOTP token into multiple apps if you want
2022-11-29T15:50:34 < qyx> TOTP is the thing in the QR?
2022-11-29T15:50:39 < catphish> qyx: yes
2022-11-29T15:50:50 < srk> btw I found out that my old google account uses no longer working mail and phone, changed the phone, can't change mail yet as it's still asking to send codes to old phone, fun
2022-11-29T15:50:54 < catphish> qyx: you can copy those tokens to multiple devices, back them up, etc
2022-11-29T15:51:37 < catphish> qyx: TOTP stands for Time-One-Time-Password, it uses a pre-shared key (in the QR code) and the current time to generate a code, any device with the key can generate the current code
2022-11-29T15:51:57 < catphish> so ideally you copy that key to all your devices, and back it up to your cloud backups
2022-11-29T15:52:13 < catphish> plenty of TOTP apps allow this
2022-11-29T15:52:26 < qyx> there is some Authenticator thing for GTK desktops
2022-11-29T15:52:27 < englishman> qyx you can copy the totp hash and use it anywhere, i have at least 3 copies, phone, desktop and cloud
2022-11-29T15:52:33 < englishman> on desktop i use keepass
2022-11-29T15:52:40 < catphish> some PC password managers can also store and generate them
2022-11-29T15:52:40 < englishman> but any modern password manager will support it
2022-11-29T15:52:43 < qyx> keep ass sounds great
2022-11-29T15:52:46 < englishman> it is
2022-11-29T15:52:56 < srk> I've started using `pass` today
2022-11-29T15:52:58 < englishman> keepass and gnucash are the primary reasons i still have a pc
2022-11-29T15:53:12 < catphish> i used to use 1password
2022-11-29T15:53:39 < qyx> I am using pass hm, for about 2 years now
2022-11-29T15:53:59 < srk> nice, store your recovery codes there and you should be fine :)
2022-11-29T15:55:02 < srk> best would to generate gpg key on something like yubikey
2022-11-29T15:57:33 < qyx> I have something like that but Iw ould not trust it
2022-11-29T15:57:38 < srk> hm, would be nice if web apps allow for more TOTP devices 
2022-11-29T15:57:44 < qyx> also it is super slow
2022-11-29T15:57:51 < qyx> doing RSA2048 in 5 seconds or so
2022-11-29T15:58:04 < qyx> I was using it for SSH and stopped because it simply takes too much time
2022-11-29T15:58:12 < englishman> keepassXC is the lunix version iirc
2022-11-29T16:13:39 < bitmask> UI is starting to become functional... https://i.imgur.com/b8B0ODy.png
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2022-11-29T16:51:02 < mawk> I use both keepass and google authenticator for my TOTP codes
2022-11-29T16:51:10 < mawk> you can extract the master keys from google authenticator
2022-11-29T16:59:22 < bitmask> I use google and lastpass
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2022-11-29T17:40:56 < PaulFertser> I do not think our EEs abuse drugs collectively but somehow they decided that manufacturing a board without DDR DRAM termination was an interesting experiment: https://i.ibb.co/8P55H1z/dram-termination.jpg .
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2022-11-29T17:59:26 < Laurence_b> https://www.facebook.com/ForrestPimp/posts/482034628531257/
2022-11-29T18:10:32 < fenugrec> are those matched-impedance bodgewires
2022-11-29T18:15:46 < Laurence_b> lets see?
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2022-11-29T18:18:38 < jpa-> at that length, they are
2022-11-29T18:18:42 < Laurence_b> oh shit
2022-11-29T18:18:43 < Laurence_b> http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
2022-11-29T18:18:48 < Laurence_b> power cut incoming
2022-11-29T18:19:20 < jpa-> though i don't think you need to match the DC side of the termination resistors anyway, it's preferable to have minimum impedance there
2022-11-29T18:20:49 < Laurence_b> conductor we have a problem
2022-11-29T18:20:54 < qyx> Laurence_b: how do you know?
2022-11-29T18:21:03 < qyx> the power cut I mean
2022-11-29T18:21:11 < qyx> very low frequency?
2022-11-29T18:21:22 < Laurence_b> they maxed out the generation and its still not time for peak demand
2022-11-29T18:21:45 < Laurence_b> they are ramping up the OCGT as thats all they have left
2022-11-29T18:23:42 < specing> Laurence_b: freq is now >50hz
2022-11-29T18:29:36 < jpa-> looking at the past graphs, it doesn't seem out of the usual
2022-11-29T18:30:21 < PaulFertser> With those aditional parts installed vertically on the vias the board is able to work normally, so apparently that's enough of an impedance matching (and btw, length-matching wasn't performed either).
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2022-11-29T19:12:52 < Laurence_b> https://pastesite.org/view/90d86a50
2022-11-29T19:13:09 < Laurence_b> muh tarduino code is in an endless loop, what did I do wrong?
2022-11-29T19:14:24 < jpa-> step in a debugger and see why?
2022-11-29T19:15:35 < jpa-> do you terminate if readBytesUntil returns 0?
2022-11-29T19:15:39 < Laurence_b> >arduino >debugger
2022-11-29T19:15:58 < jpa-> what do you mean? why couldn't you run debugger with arduino code?
2022-11-29T19:16:15 < Laurence_b> hmm yeah that might explain why its looping
2022-11-29T19:16:23 < Laurence_b> teensy has no debugger
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2022-11-29T19:17:05 < jpa-> if it doesn't bring out SWD, you can always use MRI
2022-11-29T19:18:55 < Laurence_b> https://www.arduino.cc/reference/en/language/functions/communication/stream/streamreadbytesuntil/
2022-11-29T19:19:07 < Laurence_b> >the terminator is discharded from the stream
2022-11-29T19:19:13 < Laurence_b> I cant see how it could fail
2022-11-29T19:20:01 < jpa-> you don't see how file reading could fail?
2022-11-29T19:20:36 < Laurence_b> if there is data available, it should be possible to read it?
2022-11-29T19:21:51 < jpa-> unless there is a failure, such as the timeout or some problem accessing SD card
2022-11-29T19:22:54 < Laurence_b> then it should work on the next loop?
2022-11-29T19:23:11 < jpa-> only if the problem magically goes away
2022-11-29T19:23:44 < jpa-> if you deliberately omit all error handling from your code and refuse to use a debugger, it will be pretty hard to figure out what is going wrong
2022-11-29T19:24:40 < Laurence_b> it works fine with readStringUntil, but there is timeout on last line if there is no trailing newline in the file
2022-11-29T19:26:39 < jpa-> https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/cores/blob/master/teensy/Stream.cpp#L235-L252   if this is the library you are using, it seems that when length = 1, it will not read anything
2022-11-29T19:27:15 < jpa-> but that seems to contradict the arduino.cc documentation, so check the actual library source code you are using
2022-11-29T19:28:31 < jpa-> for comparison, the AVR library does not null terminate and reads the requested length: https://github.com/arduino/ArduinoCore-avr/blob/master/cores/arduino/Stream.cpp#L219-L229
2022-11-29T19:30:13 < jpa-> the ESP8266 version does not null terminate, but has useless if and a comment that indicate it has null-terminated at some point in time  https://github.com/esp8266/Arduino/blob/master/cores/esp8266/Stream.cpp#L231-L243
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2022-11-29T19:46:18 < Laurence_b> hmm ok thanks
2022-11-29T19:46:31 < Laurence_b> well the teensy is back to bricked mode, so no more luck here
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2022-11-29T20:02:44 < karlp> meh, hub works in self powered mode, endlessly complains about failing to suspend in bus powered mode.
2022-11-29T20:02:50 < karlp> will have to investigate that further...
2022-11-29T20:06:35 < karlp> lol, looks like my power good led doesn't turn on until the load gets high enough?!
2022-11-29T20:06:40 < karlp> more fun to look into.
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2022-11-29T20:47:59 < bitmask> w00t! got animation controls now: https://i.imgur.com/SVAPbPy.png
2022-11-29T20:57:59 < Steffanx-> Nothing movies..
2022-11-29T20:58:14 < Steffanx-> Moves.
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2022-11-29T21:06:51 < machinehum> Have you guys used the Black Magic Debug?
2022-11-29T21:06:55 < machinehum> Seems decent
2022-11-29T21:08:36 < PaulFertser> machinehum: what purposes and with what tools are you comparing?
2022-11-29T21:09:05 < machinehum> I dunno my jlink I guess
2022-11-29T21:09:17 < zyp> machinehum, yeah, it's what I primarily use
2022-11-29T21:09:26 < machinehum> I guess I just thought it's cool how it hosts a gdb server
2022-11-29T21:09:35 < zyp> I mean, I use the blackmagic app with orbtrace nowadays
2022-11-29T21:09:44 < machinehum> However PaulFertser it would look like I don't get to use openocd anymore :(
2022-11-29T21:09:59 < zyp> yeah, that's the main benefit
2022-11-29T21:10:08 < zyp> you don't have to use openocd ;)
2022-11-29T21:10:15 < PaulFertser> :)
2022-11-29T21:10:34 < machinehum> orbtrace
2022-11-29T21:10:51 < machinehum> What does trace even do
2022-11-29T21:11:14 < jpa-> my experience with bmp has not been great
2022-11-29T21:11:36 < jpa-> it works or fails in weird ways for me
2022-11-29T21:12:04 < kaki> what is wrong with using jlink?
2022-11-29T21:12:44 < zyp> jpa-, it's not without issues, for sure, but so is nothing
2022-11-29T21:12:47 < kaki> assuming there is stock for EDU
2022-11-29T21:13:03 < Steffanx-> China has stock
2022-11-29T21:13:04 < machinehum> kaki: you see
2022-11-29T21:13:09 < machinehum> I have a credit card
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2022-11-29T21:13:18 < machinehum> That charges zuk directly
2022-11-29T21:13:24 < machinehum> I can use that to buy random shit
2022-11-29T21:13:37 < kaki> buy debugger from zyp
2022-11-29T21:13:41 < machinehum> And BMP looks neat
2022-11-29T21:13:56 < kaki> you should look what zyp has done
2022-11-29T21:14:01 < kaki> FPGA powered thing
2022-11-29T21:14:25 < kaki> I mean it had like world record trace speed etc.?
2022-11-29T21:14:32 < machinehum> zyp: link
2022-11-29T21:14:38 < zyp> https://store.zyp.no/product/orbtrace-mini
2022-11-29T21:15:13 < zyp> gonna release more stock in a few days, but I don't have a lot left so I think they'll go fast
2022-11-29T21:16:02 < kaki> support local zyp machinehum
2022-11-29T21:16:12 < kaki> *support your local zyp
2022-11-29T21:16:39 < kaki> niteride>
2022-11-29T21:16:47 < kaki> bbl
2022-11-29T21:16:48 < PaulFertser> Priority queue for ##stm32
2022-11-29T21:17:03 < zyp> jpa-, I've been toying with writing my own gdbserver
2022-11-29T21:18:19 < zyp> I mean, so far I've been toying with a python CMSIS-DAP thing to learn how everything fits together, and then I'm intending to later write a C++ implementation intended for running directly on the orbtrace
2022-11-29T21:18:48 < machinehum> zyp: Let me know when I can buy it
2022-11-29T21:19:10 < zyp> sure
2022-11-29T21:19:17 < machinehum> But I don't know what it does
2022-11-29T21:19:21 < machinehum> Can I profile with it?
2022-11-29T21:19:43 < machinehum> Did you get a tool cut for the case?
2022-11-29T21:19:46 < zyp> it captures parallel trace
2022-11-29T21:19:56 < zyp> which is like swo, just faster
2022-11-29T21:20:43 < zyp> and it can also do swo at 48 Mb/s, so it can also do swo faster than most other stuff
2022-11-29T21:21:21 < zyp> and then it does swd/jtag debug, currently via CMSIS-DAP, but eventually I'm gonna put a gdbserver directly on it
2022-11-29T21:22:16 < zyp> the case is 3d printed, SLS
2022-11-29T21:22:32 < machinehum> I've never used swo/trace
2022-11-29T21:23:22 < machinehum> Oh it's like a really fast uart
2022-11-29T21:23:39 < zyp> yes and no
2022-11-29T21:24:27 < machinehum> It runs at sclk?
2022-11-29T21:24:27 < zyp> swo and parallel trace can mux data streams from a few different sources
2022-11-29T21:25:08 < machinehum> Like more than one MCU?
2022-11-29T21:25:32 < zyp> depends on the chip, swo is typically at an arbitrary divider from sysclk, and on midrange stm32s parallel traceclk is fixed at sysclk/2
2022-11-29T21:25:46 < zyp> no, different blocks inside the MCU
2022-11-29T21:25:54 < machinehum> Oh interesting
2022-11-29T21:26:14 < zyp> the most common use seems to be to use an ITM channel as a print channel
2022-11-29T21:26:24 < machinehum> Oh I see there's a mux that connects the PHY around all over the place inside the chip?
2022-11-29T21:26:44 < zyp> ITM gives you a bunch of channels that software could use to output arbitrary data
2022-11-29T21:27:00 < machinehum> Oh that would be cool for realtime plotting of stuff
2022-11-29T21:27:05 < zyp> yeah
2022-11-29T21:27:22 < machinehum> I did a FFT a while back and used some UART jank to make stuff visible in realtime
2022-11-29T21:27:24 < zyp> and then there's DWT that you can configure to output stuff like pc samples
2022-11-29T21:27:34 < zyp> which can be used for non-intrusive profiling
2022-11-29T21:27:39 < zyp> see e.g. orbtop
2022-11-29T21:27:40 < machinehum> Yeah that's cool to
2022-11-29T21:28:06 < machinehum> Profiling always useful, I also did that with a jank uart solution
2022-11-29T21:28:15 < zyp> and then there's ETM which is full execution trace, recording everything the cpu does
2022-11-29T21:28:17 < PaulFertser> And finally you can also get execution trace to see how exactly some race happened or whatever.
2022-11-29T21:28:43 < machinehum> That's cool
2022-11-29T21:29:10 < machinehum> zyp: I will but your device, please add a tip option so I can tip you for helping me with my dimmer issue
2022-11-29T21:29:14 < machinehum> buy*
2022-11-29T21:30:49 < zyp> no tips needed, if you want to help you can contribute back to the orbuculum project instead :)
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2022-11-29T21:43:25 < karlp> zyp: you're ending up in the pyocd trap, where "just throw a gdb server together in python seems smart" and then it's just the endless downward spiral of target quirks :)
2022-11-29T21:44:53 < zyp> ah, nope, my python thing is just a toy for learning
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2022-11-29T21:45:07 < zyp> and yes, target quirks is definitely gonna be the hard part
2022-11-29T21:46:00 < zyp> that's a big part of why I want to build a mux rack with room for 128 different targets to test against :p
2022-11-29T21:46:27 < karlp> it's why I've got this wildly overbudget in time/money hub project ;)
2022-11-29T21:47:18 < karlp> but yeah, pyocd was deceptively small and tiny when I first looked at it after getting frustrated with texane and openocd.
2022-11-29T21:47:25 < karlp> but then I realised why it was small...
2022-11-29T21:47:41 < zyp> yeah, I realized screw hubs, I don't need more than one target at a time, so I'm just gonna throw in a ton of muxes
2022-11-29T21:48:16 < karlp> muxing what? this shit was originally intended for testing the usb support.
2022-11-29T21:49:13 < karlp> uhubctl happily finds my hub and turns the ports on and off for me as expected, so that's great, just little quirks to figure out now, looks like it's all related to the bus/self 5V supply switching shit i tried out.
2022-11-29T21:49:44 < zyp> primarily debug and trace, since the main goal is testing target support, but while I'm at it I figure I might as well add a few extra signals in parallel to run usb/uart/spi/whatever
2022-11-29T21:49:59 < zyp> dunno if you saw this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/998371828609327224/1046230746119024690/image.png
2022-11-29T21:50:22 < karlp> no, not yet :)
2022-11-29T21:50:44 < zyp> simple dumb design to test that the muxes doesn't ruin the signal too much, gonna run five of them at jlc soon
2022-11-29T21:50:58 < zyp> even if I chain up multiple in serial
2022-11-29T21:51:22 < zyp> bit worried about propagation delay wrt. swd turnaround
2022-11-29T21:51:43 < karlp> yeah, my _original_ idea was these targets that would plug into nucleos,
2022-11-29T21:52:09 < karlp> and they could be reflashed to be i2c/spi/uart dac/adc master/slaves to complement the test firmware on the nucleos,
2022-11-29T21:52:34 < karlp> and with a fx2la port to snoop and run sigrok-cli to do tests on expected behaviour
2022-11-29T21:52:42 < zyp> there's no cheap off the shelf targets that break out parallel trace, so I decided fuck that, I'm gonna make something that lets me do cheap and simple custom modules instead
2022-11-29T21:52:44 < karlp> but wow, soooo much time to develop that sort of thing :)
2022-11-29T21:54:03 < zyp> if the muxes works well enough, I'm gonna throw them on a carrier board that muxes eight m.2 sockets to a pci edge, which plugs into a backplane that muxes 16 pcie sockets to a 17th socket
2022-11-29T21:54:27 < karlp> then you can use sparkfun cpu modules? :)
2022-11-29T21:54:46 < zyp> similar form factor, but that pinout doesn't define parallel trace
2022-11-29T21:55:36 < qyx> and a single MCU on a m.2 card?
2022-11-29T21:55:42 < karlp> yeah, lets you do very simple new targets by very simple new cards.
2022-11-29T21:55:52 < karlp> but like sparkfun, pretty unreeasonable for just about anyone else :)
2022-11-29T21:56:05 < zyp> but it makes the modules simple, all they need is the edge connector, LDO (gonna feed them with 5V), target chip and whatever passives it need
2022-11-29T21:56:25 < zyp> and that's important if I'm gonna make a 128 different ones
2022-11-29T21:56:28 < karlp> yeah, super easy to add targets...
2022-11-29T21:56:40 < qyx> do you really need 2 level muxing?
2022-11-29T21:57:09 < zyp> well, if I want 128 of them, 1:8 * 1:16 seems the most reasonable
2022-11-29T21:57:17 < karlp> I'd have thought less muxing and more masters would make it easier to parallel, but that's just me.
2022-11-29T21:57:26 < qyx> connecting all in parallelis too dumb?
2022-11-29T21:57:56 < zyp> I thought about hooking them in parallel and using bus switches first, but I'm worried about stubs
2022-11-29T21:58:03 < qyx> yeah that
2022-11-29T21:58:20 < zyp> would probably work fine for debug, but I wanna test parallel trace over this too
2022-11-29T21:58:20 < karlp> I just mean having less muxing and more copies of the hardware.
2022-11-29T21:58:39 < karlp> so that when you're testing 128 targets it doesn't take 128 runtimes.
2022-11-29T21:59:12 < zyp> ah, yeah
2022-11-29T21:59:48 < karlp> but you can't make front page of hackaday without a custom blade setup amirite? :)
2022-11-29T21:59:48 < zyp> but that costs money too and there's value in muxing multiple masters to one target too
2022-11-29T21:59:55 < qyx> zyp: are you too much in green numbers with orbtrace?
2022-11-29T22:00:10 < zyp> qyx, in what sense?
2022-11-29T22:00:20 < qyx> money-wise
2022-11-29T22:00:23 < karlp> he thinks this is an expensive project, being bankrolled by the profits of orbtrace
2022-11-29T22:00:26 < qyx> that development costs mo ey
2022-11-29T22:01:46 < zyp> eh, in the long run it should save me more time than I spend on it
2022-11-29T22:04:32 < zyp> if I just needed to burn money, I'd buy a new computer, because the one I got is >10 years old and ought to be replaced soon
2022-11-29T22:13:00 < PaulFertser> Do you consider M2 Mac?
2022-11-29T22:13:19 < zyp> I'm tempted to get a mac studio
2022-11-29T22:13:59 < PaulFertser> Asahi Linux is making amazing progress on those.
2022-11-29T22:14:23 < zyp> if I wanted to run linux, I wouldn't bother paying for apple hardware
2022-11-29T22:15:06 < PaulFertser> Their laptops seem to be beating all the alternatives hardware-wise.
2022-11-29T22:15:32 < zyp> yeah, but I'm talking desktop now
2022-11-29T22:15:46 < zyp> currently running a hackintosh
2022-11-29T22:16:23 < qyx> I bought that odroid-h2+ intel thing and it is good
2022-11-29T22:16:50 < qyx> it was around 250e with NVMe and RAM
2022-11-29T22:16:58 < zyp> but I don't think I want to do another hackintosh, I expect they'll drop intel support in macos before the hardware would be obsolete
2022-11-29T22:17:54 < qyx> but nowadays everybody wants 50-core machines with 256 G of RAM and whatnot
2022-11-29T22:18:38 < machinehum> AM4 socket mobo's right now + AM4 processors are a good deal
2022-11-29T22:18:46 < machinehum> With the new AM5 stuff coming out
2022-11-29T22:27:51 < catphish_> zyp: a hackintosh won't stop working when new releases stop supporting intel :)
2022-11-29T22:28:19 < catphish_> it's not like you can't just switch back to linux when you feel you need to upgrade the OS again
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2022-11-29T22:41:27 < zyp> «can't» and «want to» are different things
2022-11-29T22:41:48 < catphish_> then see option 1 :)
2022-11-29T22:42:37 < catphish_> i guess actually buying an actual arm mac is also an option, but not a sanely priced one
2022-11-29T22:42:55 < catphish_> save the hassle and install linux now :)
2022-11-29T22:42:56 < zyp> like I said, I'm considering buying a mac studio
2022-11-29T22:43:19 < catphish_> "From £1,999" lmao
2022-11-29T22:43:58 < catphish_> that thing had better have an RTX4090 accompanying its ARM CPU
2022-11-29T22:44:35 < zyp> isn't RTX4090 almost that expensive on its own?
2022-11-29T22:44:49 < catphish_> yes
2022-11-29T22:45:27 < catphish_> but the value of the rest is negligable
2022-11-29T22:46:14 < catphish_> okay i'm being a bit mean, i know those apple arms are pretty powerful
2022-11-29T22:46:56 < catphish_> but for that price it had better have some serious GPU power
2022-11-29T22:47:29 < zyp> idk, I'm not buying it for the GPU power
2022-11-29T22:47:39 < catphish_> then don't
2022-11-29T22:47:48 < catphish_> no PC is worth that much without serious GPU power
2022-11-29T22:48:36 < zyp> my ten year old hackintosh got enough GPU power for my needs, and I expect the mac studio has it beat, and that's good enough
2022-11-29T22:49:01 < catphish_> why spend that much then?
2022-11-29T22:49:11 < catphish_> if you just want the OS, aren't there much cheaper options?
2022-11-29T22:50:06 < catphish_> i judge macs very harshly because they're SO expensive
2022-11-29T22:50:31 < zyp> so, what cheaper option do you propose?
2022-11-29T22:51:18 < catphish_> mac mini
2022-11-29T22:52:10 < zyp> you don't get the arm mini with more than 16GB RAM
2022-11-29T22:52:16 < catphish_> it's a third of the price, way more like what i'd consider a sane PC price
2022-11-29T22:52:42 < catphish_> zyp: well at that point i'd walk away and build a a ryzen linux box
2022-11-29T22:52:58 < catphish_> i guess if you *need* macos and 32GB RAM they have you over a barrel
2022-11-29T22:53:15 < catphish_> i'll admit i'm not a fan (and this is primarily why)
2022-11-29T22:53:20 < zyp> my hackintosh ran macos with 32GB RAM ten years ago
2022-11-29T22:53:33 < catphish_> that's kinda my point
2022-11-29T22:54:12 < catphish_> the fact you can't get macos with 32GB for less than £1,999 is absurd to me
2022-11-29T22:54:17 < catphish_> (legitimately)
2022-11-29T22:54:31 < zyp> I think you can get the intel mini with 32GB for less
2022-11-29T22:55:35 < zyp> anyway, I'd consider another hackintosh, but my patience for hassle has decreased over the past ten years
2022-11-29T22:55:44 < catphish_> intel mac mini with 32GB RAM is £1,699
2022-11-29T22:55:46 < catphish_> :|
2022-11-29T22:56:03 < zyp> yeah, hence why I might as well get a studio while I'm at it
2022-11-29T22:56:11 < PaulFertser> What are the macOS essential features for you, why do you prefer it?
2022-11-29T22:56:17 < catphish_> i'd try hackintosh if i was willing to risk running linux if it sucked
2022-11-29T22:57:04 < catphish_> i just kinda refuse to take apple products seriously because of the absurd prices
2022-11-29T22:58:15 < catphish_> since apple still sell intel macs, i'd say hackintosh still has mileage in it
2022-11-29T23:00:17 < karlp> maybe not 10 years of mileage though.
2022-11-29T23:00:39 < zyp> karlp, but neither might the studio
2022-11-29T23:00:44  * karlp just got caughtby stupid 24shit eeproms doing "page rollover" if you cross 16byte boundaries.
2022-11-29T23:01:04 < catphish_> hard to say, you'd hope they were willing to give a decent life to stuff they're selling now
2022-11-29T23:01:36 < catphish_> it's also worth noting that i might be underestimating how much comparable PCs cost
2022-11-29T23:03:10 < zyp> I've got a decent HP SFF thing at the office which could have been a reasonable alternative if I wanted to go linux at home as well, IIRC it cost something like 70% of what a studio would cost me
2022-11-29T23:03:27 < zyp> not sure how it compares in performance, but it's got 80GB of ram
2022-11-29T23:03:43 < catphish_> i send £930 on my 32GB ryzen PC with no GPU, so would be more like £1300 with a mid range GPU
2022-11-29T23:03:48 < catphish_> *spent
2022-11-29T23:03:55 < zyp> ram upgrades for that were also silly priced, so I got it with 16 and put in another 64 myself
2022-11-29T23:04:32 < catphish_> so it's not as ludicrously priced as i'm accusing it of being
2022-11-29T23:05:00 < catphish_> though the studio does still seem overkill if you're not looking for graphics grunt
2022-11-29T23:05:17 < catphish_> shame they don't do something cheaper and more upgradeable
2022-11-29T23:05:24 < zyp> why? I want cpu and ram grunt
2022-11-29T23:05:42 < zyp> and graphics certainly doesn't hurt having
2022-11-29T23:05:53 < catphish_> sure, just expensive :)
2022-11-29T23:06:32 < zyp> well yeah, the thing is I'm inclined to pay to avoid hassle
2022-11-29T23:07:07 < catphish_> but i'm sitting here with a 32GB thinkpad t-series laptop laptop AND a 32GB ryzen desktop, which cost less combined, and seemingly the only difference is the OS
2022-11-29T23:07:17 < zyp> I'm happy with my old hackintosh, but installing OS upgrades is a hassle
2022-11-29T23:07:27 < catphish_> so i suppose it depends how much you're willing to pay for macos
2022-11-29T23:07:35 < zyp> indeed
2022-11-29T23:08:34 < zyp> some of the software I use doesn't run on linux
2022-11-29T23:08:44 < zyp> e.g. Fusion 360, to take a recent example
2022-11-29T23:08:49 < catphish_> how annoying
2022-11-29T23:09:57 < catphish_> it's been a long time since i had something fail to run on wine, but i know it's not perfect
2022-11-29T23:10:47 < zyp> yeah, that's the sort of hassle I'd like to avoid :)
2022-11-29T23:11:08 < catphish_> it's certainly hassle when it doesn't work
2022-11-29T23:11:23 < zyp> then again, not everything I use runs on macos either, I've got a windows VM to run altium
2022-11-29T23:11:50 < zyp> which might be harder to do on an arm mac…
2022-11-29T23:12:05 < zyp> that's the biggest reason I'm still on the fence
2022-11-29T23:12:20 < catphish_> isn't mac's arm optimized for some kind of x86 emulation?
2022-11-29T23:12:38 < catphish_> i've heard silly things like it running x86 stuff better than an intel mac
2022-11-29T23:12:43 < zyp> yep, but not x86 virtualization
2022-11-29T23:12:55 < catphish_> but i don't know if that extends to windows virtualization
2022-11-29T23:13:16 < catphish_> i guess that's an application layer JIT thing
2022-11-29T23:13:20 < zyp> apparently you can run an arm windows VM and then run x86 software through windows' x86 translation layer instead of macos'
2022-11-29T23:13:37 < zyp> but I have no idea how usable that is in practice
2022-11-29T23:13:42 < catphish_> if windows has that layer, that would be nice
2022-11-29T23:14:04 < zyp> might end up repurposing the old hackintosh as a windows box for stuff that doesn't run on the studio
2022-11-29T23:14:19 < catphish_> that sounds sane
2022-11-29T23:14:49 < catphish_> or just throw a strop and refuse to use anything that's not FOSS like i did
2022-11-29T23:15:10 < catphish_> (though i make an exception for games)
2022-11-29T23:15:28 < zyp> sounds like a good way to get nothing done
2022-11-29T23:15:44 < catphish_> depends what you want to get done
2022-11-29T23:15:58 < catphish_> some professional work is probably not that easy that way
2022-11-29T23:16:23 < catphish_> i did resign myself to using vivado for FPGA stuff
2022-11-29T23:16:33 < zyp> there is of course software available for linux but not macos
2022-11-29T23:16:35 < catphish_> as much as i'd have loved a free toolchain
2022-11-29T23:16:36 < zyp> like vivado
2022-11-29T23:17:12 < catphish_> honestly i've found linux support for software / hardware dev surprisingly good latelly
2022-11-29T23:18:21 < catphish_> if all you need is application support, windows works :)
2022-11-29T23:18:35 < catphish_> but yeah, seeems like you have enough reason to just want 2 PCs
2022-11-29T23:19:43 < zyp> I figure the price tag doesn't matter that much if I get ten hassle free years out of a studio
2022-11-29T23:20:11 < catphish_> true
2022-11-29T23:21:21 < zyp> but that depends, the imac I had before I bought the hackintosh only lasted me four years :)
2022-11-29T23:22:15 < zyp> came with 2GB RAM, which I upgraded to 4GB, but the motherboard couldn't address more than that
2022-11-29T23:22:27 < zyp> and 4GB was way too little
2022-11-29T23:23:00 < catphish_> hard to imagine 2GB RAM now
2022-11-29T23:23:20  * karlp points at arm32...
2022-11-29T23:23:30 < zyp> yeah, but this was 2008
2022-11-29T23:23:38 < catphish_> i'm using 2.6GB right now just to listen to some music and chat here
2022-11-29T23:24:25 < catphish_> haha, looks like most of that is discord
2022-11-29T23:25:51 < catphish_> i lie, most if firefox, but this is just the sad truth of modern PC desktop systems
2022-11-29T23:26:01 < catphish_> *is
2022-11-29T23:26:40 < catphish_> i'm not sure i actually need 32GB... but when i thought this laptop i was planning to do lots of virtualized testing
2022-11-29T23:26:52 < qyx> today I closed firefox
2022-11-29T23:26:56 < qyx> 11 GB instantly freed
2022-11-29T23:26:59 < catphish_> lol
2022-11-29T23:27:18 < qyx> I am starting to think of upgrading to 32 GB
2022-11-29T23:27:21 < catphish_> i doubt i often go past 4GB in normal usage
2022-11-29T23:27:49 < catphish_> but no harm in having another 28GB of cache :)
2022-11-29T23:27:53 < karlp> bit dissapointed with this hubs leds management,  it uses red/green leds to do red for FS, green for _LS_ and "both" (ie orange) for HS.
2022-11-29T23:27:58 < qyx> it is unbelievable it is able to eat 11 GB during 23 days
2022-11-29T23:28:04 < zyp> when I got the work computer, I managed to run out of 16GB and run into OOM hell before I upgraded the ram
2022-11-29T23:28:08 < karlp> and the orange it makes is supppper close to red.
2022-11-29T23:28:16 < karlp> should try and find something else for that.
2022-11-29T23:28:36 < zyp> haven't had that issue since I upgraded to 80GB
2022-11-29T23:28:47 < qyx> idk how much is this thing able to address
2022-11-29T23:28:49 < qyx> 32G probably
2022-11-29T23:30:10 < catphish_> i usually refuse to use swap on linux, because it has no option to prevent rogue rocesses using disk as RAM
2022-11-29T23:30:17 < catphish_> *processes
2022-11-29T23:30:31 < qyx> same here, swap is the first thing I turn off
2022-11-29T23:30:44 < qyx> increases determinism a lot
2022-11-29T23:30:45 < zyp> I never make a swap partition in the first place
2022-11-29T23:30:54 < catphish_> i wish i could use swap, it has a great legitimate use, but it goes horribly wrong in an OOM situation
2022-11-29T23:31:09 < zyp> OOM situations goes horribly wrong anyway
2022-11-29T23:31:31 < zyp> IME it tends to kill random pieces of the desktop environment
2022-11-29T23:31:38 < catphish_> for servers in particular, it's much safer to have the OS kill the rogue process rather then thrash and effectively lock you out
2022-11-29T23:31:51 < catphish_> since all you want to do is log in and kill that process ayway
2022-11-29T23:32:07 < zyp> yeah, try doing that when half your desktop environment got killed
2022-11-29T23:32:41 < catphish_> for me it's never killed anything but the correct (bad) process
2022-11-29T23:33:07 < catphish_> i don't know how it chooses, but it works well on my servers
2022-11-29T23:33:11 < zyp> then you haven't experienced OOM hell on desktop linux :)
2022-11-29T23:33:23 < qyx> it works for me
2022-11-29T23:33:29 < karlp> it's gotten better, it was horrible in the past
2022-11-29T23:33:29 < qyx> usually kills firefox or evince anyway
2022-11-29T23:33:32 < zyp> well, duh, a server wouldn't have a desktop environment to kill in the first place
2022-11-29T23:33:40 < karlp> I've had far more problems with it under openwrt :)
2022-11-29T23:33:48 < catphish_> i don't know what the algorithm is
2022-11-29T23:34:07 < qyx> 16 GB crucial is 49 €, nice
2022-11-29T23:34:09 < catphish_> but on servers is seems to detect the offending process successfully
2022-11-29T23:34:12 < qyx> I could get two
2022-11-29T23:34:13 < karlp> I have swap so that I can hibernate, but I know I'm kinda odd like that...
2022-11-29T23:34:35 < catphish_> swap is good if you never run out of RAM
2022-11-29T23:34:46 < catphish_> i wish there was a way to activate the OOM sooner
2022-11-29T23:34:54 < catphish_> but there isn't :(
2022-11-29T23:34:59 < karlp> what? there's lots of tunables
2022-11-29T23:35:09 < karlp> you can even tune processes to be more likely to be taken out if you want
2022-11-29T23:35:37 < catphish_> afaik none of them allow you to start the OOM until both RAM and swap are full of process heap data :(
2022-11-29T23:35:56 < catphish_> which is a bad place to be
2022-11-29T23:36:28 < zyp> can't you just set ram quotas?
2022-11-29T23:36:49 < catphish_> hmm possibly
2022-11-29T23:37:01 < catphish_> that sounds like it could work
2022-11-29T23:37:30 < catphish_> a system wide cgroup limit on used pages might work
2022-11-29T23:39:20 < catphish_> i emailed someone at NATO this week to ask who i can talk to about the JANUS reference implementation not matching the JANUS standard, i have not heard back :'(
2022-11-29T23:40:23 < qyx> what is JANUS
2022-11-29T23:41:01 < catphish_> underwater (sound wave) digital communications standard
2022-11-29T23:41:02 < qyx> haha lol
2022-11-29T23:41:50 < qyx> so it is for IoT and not for military?
2022-11-29T23:41:53 < qyx> isn't it classified?
2022-11-29T23:42:03 < catphish_> it's military, but it's not classified
2022-11-29T23:42:16 < catphish_> well, military-ish, anyone can use it
2022-11-29T23:44:57 < catphish_> the standard is called ANEP-87, i've been researching this with a view to doing work for both IoT and military customers
2022-11-29T23:45:27 < qyx> yeah, well, you have a sea accessible at least
2022-11-29T23:45:39 < catphish_> i do indeed
2022-11-29T23:45:46 < qyx> but sounds very interesting
2022-11-29T23:45:49 < qyx> what is the usual range?
2022-11-29T23:46:06 < qyx> is it possible to do with of the shelf transducers?
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2022-11-29T23:47:32 < catphish_> qyx: i'm actually not sure on either point, i spent so much time researching the low level details i forgot the big picture
2022-11-29T23:47:57 < qyx> JANUS, which is named after the Roman god of gateways, has been tested at 900Hz to 60kHz frequencies at distances of up to 28 kilometers. However, it's optimized for sending data underwater at up to 10 km
2022-11-29T23:48:28 < catphish_> ^ that's it
2022-11-29T23:49:25 < catphish_> i didn't look much into the transducer hardware yet
2022-11-29T23:49:30 < catphish_> mostly focusing on the DSP
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2022-11-29T23:50:00 < catphish_> but i'd think 100W at 10khz wouldn't be an expensive requirement
2022-11-29T23:50:00 < qyx> should be doable even on stm
2022-11-29T23:50:11 < qyx> for a IoT noe?
2022-11-29T23:50:44 < catphish_> transmitting it would be easy on stm32 i'd say
2022-11-29T23:51:12 < catphish_> i'm not so sure about the DSP calculations for receiving
2022-11-29T23:51:22 < catphish_> but with proper optimization, quite possible
2022-11-29T23:51:31 < catphish_> it's only running at 48ksps
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2022-11-29T23:58:47 < catphish_> hopefully i'll get some .mil work, i won't be able to talk about it, but the $$$ will make up for it
--- Day changed ke marras 30 2022
2022-11-30T00:00:54 < qyx> which reminds me I shill haven't talked to the guy spamming me with dronedongs work
2022-11-30T00:05:21 < catphish_> i'm really struggling to work at the moment though, my attention span is absolute garbage
2022-11-30T00:09:00 < qyx> same here
2022-11-30T00:09:15 < qyx> too many projects and too many people asking what's done
2022-11-30T00:09:57 < qyx> I got a quite large project in august and I need to context switch to other small things which keep me distracted
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2022-11-30T00:12:19 < catphish_> i managed about 4 hours of work last week, and this week currently stands at zero
2022-11-30T00:12:35 < kaki> :o
2022-11-30T00:12:46 < Steffanx-> What happened to EVing?
2022-11-30T00:12:59 < kaki> completed
2022-11-30T00:13:12 < kaki> did you do stuff for other cars catphish?
2022-11-30T00:31:52 < Steffanx-> Completed.. or works good enough. Lost interest.
2022-11-30T00:33:14  * qyx @ Molecules to Minds - After All This Time? Always
2022-11-30T00:33:20 < qyx> for night muziks
2022-11-30T00:35:48 < machinehum> catphish_: Have you won the UK government lottery yet?
2022-11-30T00:36:40 < catphish_> machinehum: yes, they made me prime minster for 3 days
2022-11-30T00:38:11 < qyx> oh you have that new Sumak Humar or whats his name
2022-11-30T00:38:34 < qyx> Rishi SUnak, close enough
2022-11-30T00:39:52 < Steffanx-> Heh I expected something worse qyx. Today's music  is alright 
2022-11-30T00:40:15 < Steffanx-> Assuming spotify served me the right song 
2022-11-30T00:40:18 < catphish_> Richy Sunak
2022-11-30T00:41:30 < catphish_> i quite like him, he less less moronic than his predecessors
2022-11-30T00:42:20 < Steffanx-> He will fuck on sooner or later
2022-11-30T00:42:23 < machinehum> lol
2022-11-30T00:43:07 < machinehum> Wasn't there some insane thing where the government almost collapsed all the pension funds?
2022-11-30T00:43:21 < Steffanx-> Unless he gets away with it like our prime minister
2022-11-30T00:43:42 < Steffanx->  He just says "I have no active memory of that".
2022-11-30T00:43:53 < Steffanx-> And we move on.
2022-11-30T00:43:56 < catphish_> lol
2022-11-30T00:45:45 < catphish_> machinehum: pensions are broadly tied to the UK and US stock markets, crazy political decisions can have knock on effects to a certain extent. the previous prime minister only lasted 45 days because she decided to cut taxes and markets reacted very badly to what seemed like insanity
2022-11-30T00:46:18 < catphish_> but that stuff is generally quite temporary
2022-11-30T00:49:57 < machinehum> So things are alright?
2022-11-30T00:50:13 < catphish_> things are fine :)
2022-11-30T00:50:21 < machinehum> Party on Wayne
2022-11-30T00:50:34 < machinehum> Buy more goverment lottery tickets
2022-11-30T00:51:35 < catphish_> actually we do kinda have a government lottery, it's unusual in that tickets don't expire and once you buy them you play every month :)
2022-11-30T00:51:53 < machinehum> Yeah you were telling me about it a while back
2022-11-30T00:52:06 < machinehum> That's what I was referencing
2022-11-30T00:52:15 < catphish_> aah ok! yeah, i win about £25 a month
2022-11-30T00:53:05 < catphish_> i didn't win big yet :)
2022-11-30T00:54:52 < catphish_> https://i.imgur.com/xg9au8A.png
2022-11-30T00:55:24 < machinehum> Decent
2022-11-30T00:56:43 < catphish_> that depends how much i had to spend on tickets ;)
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2022-11-30T02:05:34 < Laurence_b> think I worked out my teensy issue
2022-11-30T02:06:03 < Laurence_b> teensy abuses the usb phy as a 2.5v regulator to power the PMIC control peripheral at bootup
2022-11-30T02:06:37 < Laurence_b> but the 2.5v regulator shuts down if usb is unused for ~30minutes or the usb voltage goes <4.5v even in a glitch
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2022-11-30T04:00:35 < machinehum> Hmm
2022-11-30T04:01:11 < machinehum> So I've noticed the arduino IDE "Forcing reset using 1200bps open/close on port /dev/ttyUSB0" to enable the bootloader
2022-11-30T04:01:36 < machinehum> How does that actually happen... like could I do that in bash somehow?
2022-11-30T04:02:58 < machinehum> oh
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2022-11-30T04:58:48 < rustyaxe> https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-kc-135-tanker-sky-penis-russia-syria/
2022-11-30T04:59:02 < rustyaxe> Col Pickart huh? I guess we're not ready for captain pickard yet :P
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2022-11-30T12:15:41 < catphish> kaki: car is finished, i never planned to do another one :)
2022-11-30T12:29:50 < kaki> I meant electronics for other cars
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2022-11-30T12:33:22 < catphish> well a couple of people have used my BMS design, but it's not something i'm doing actively
2022-11-30T12:33:43 < catphish> i don't really have the facilities
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2022-11-30T20:09:32 < machinehum> https://docs.zephyrproject.org/3.2.0/services/usb/uds_cdc_acm.html
2022-11-30T20:09:40 < machinehum> That while loop waiting on dtr
2022-11-30T20:10:03 < machinehum> In CDC dtr would be a message I guess?
2022-11-30T20:22:03 < jpa-> in CDC ACM, DTR state changes would be indicated by a packet on the interrupt endpoint
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2022-11-30T20:24:46 < machinehum> So when I connect to the /dev/ttyACM0 with screen the signal will get sent?
2022-11-30T20:25:04 < machinehum> or minicom or whatever
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2022-11-30T21:46:29 < kaki> hmm
2022-11-30T21:46:44 < kaki> it appears winupdate will push win11 soon
2022-11-30T21:51:21 < kaki> "win11 is soon available for your device. user action is not required."
2022-11-30T21:54:00 < kaki> wtf firefox hogging 11GB ram and I just restarted it brb>
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2022-11-30T22:04:28 < kaki> probs some webworm
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2022-11-30T22:18:47 < Steffanx-> So make your pc incompatible kaki  \
2022-11-30T22:19:59 < kaki> this simple trick will keep Bill messing with your system: locate your TPM chip
2022-11-30T22:20:12 < Steffanx-> exactly
2022-11-30T22:25:04 < kaki> removal of this chip will revoke your invite to win11 club
2022-11-30T22:26:31 < kaki> is that start menu fixed to middle or wtf
2022-11-30T22:26:56 < kaki> stuff looks like weird linux desktop
2022-11-30T22:27:03 < Steffanx-> or just disable it in zhe bios kaki  
2022-11-30T22:27:16 < kaki> just to be sure remove the chip
2022-11-30T22:27:25 < Steffanx-> No you can move it to old spot mr kaki 
2022-11-30T22:27:34 < kaki> srly?
2022-11-30T22:27:40 < Steffanx-> Si senor
2022-11-30T22:27:41 < kaki> are you sarcastic
2022-11-30T22:27:47 < Steffanx-> no.
2022-11-30T22:28:13 < kaki> is that sarcastic "."
2022-11-30T22:29:04 < kaki> aw shit it also moves sideways as you open more windows
2022-11-30T22:30:12 < kaki> it could be okay if toggled with win key
2022-11-30T22:30:33 < kaki> start menu opening to middle is better than to side maybe
2022-11-30T22:30:51 < Steffanx-> Just move it to the old spot :P
2022-11-30T22:31:12 < kaki> maybe I will survive
2022-11-30T22:31:38 < Steffanx-> https://imgur.com/a/oIJ7Mv9 for the great tutorial.
2022-11-30T22:34:10 < Steffanx-> Yes i was too lazy adjust what was being recorded.
2022-11-30T22:38:20 < kaki> it's all weird
2022-11-30T22:39:06 < Steffanx-> Suits you well right?
2022-11-30T22:39:40 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@188.126.166.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-11-30T22:48:29 < qyx> any legitimate opinions on Tcl?
2022-11-30T22:48:48 < qyx> so far, I perceive it uh, retarded
2022-11-30T22:48:53  * rustyaxe blinks repeatedly
2022-11-30T22:48:57 < rustyaxe> Did i just wake up in 1999?
2022-11-30T22:49:12 < qyx> I need a scripting language forembeddig
2022-11-30T22:49:25 < qyx> for embedding
2022-11-30T22:49:33 < PaulFertser> Lua?
2022-11-30T22:49:55 < qyx> I mean, smaller
2022-11-30T22:50:15 < PaulFertser> microPython might make sense too
2022-11-30T22:50:17 < qyx> duktape javascript wins so far, even over Lua
2022-11-30T22:50:53 < qyx> and over micropython, which is quite hard to embed
2022-11-30T22:50:57 < qyx> at least it was
2022-11-30T22:51:04 < qyx> I didn't check recently
2022-11-30T22:51:28 < PaulFertser> How about Forth? ;)
2022-11-30T22:52:58 < qyx> oh yeah, many implementations, cool,easy
2022-11-30T22:53:02 < qyx> no sarcasm
2022-11-30T22:53:21 < qyx> hm, let's check then
2022-11-30T22:56:46 -!- Laurence_b [~Laurenceb@14.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-30T22:56:54 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of teensy
2022-11-30T22:56:59 < Laurence_b> >take about 1s to boot up
2022-11-30T22:57:18 < kaki> you rewrote teensy to work propperly
2022-11-30T23:00:50 < Laurence_b> looks like rtc_get takes ages
2022-11-30T23:04:07 < qyx> 32k crystal startup may take seconds
2022-11-30T23:04:22 < qyx> if not already running
2022-11-30T23:12:45 < kaki> don't make your system around RTC quick boot time is required
2022-11-30T23:12:51 < kaki> if*
2022-11-30T23:13:10 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2022-11-30T23:14:07 < kaki> firefox seems to have some google specific issue
2022-11-30T23:14:20 < kaki> or google has some firefox specific issue
2022-11-30T23:15:07 < qyx> not a .not fan, but this looks reasonable too https://www.mono-project.com/docs/advanced/embedding/
2022-11-30T23:16:46 < Laurence_b> qyx: crystal is already running
2022-11-30T23:17:00 < kaki> but is it locked?
2022-11-30T23:17:31 < kaki> yeah seconds seems pretty long time even for locking to RTC crystal
2022-11-30T23:19:58 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-30T23:20:55 < kaki> I would expect 1/100s of second to 1/10s of second from crystal start to lock
2022-11-30T23:22:11 < karlp> using tcl when lua and micropython and all the *script options should make you feel bad.
2022-11-30T23:22:14 < karlp> just say no.
2022-11-30T23:22:28 < kaki> tcl is nice
2022-11-30T23:24:13 < karlp> no. tcl was nice when you had no other options
2022-11-30T23:24:47 < kaki> just use javascript
2022-11-30T23:25:07 < kaki> somebody said always bet on javascript
2022-11-30T23:26:20 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.nl/pic/media%2FFi0cJ0JX0AEe6Z-.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-11-30T23:29:14 < kaki> Steffanx-: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwTPvcPYaOo
2022-11-30T23:29:22 < qyx> karlp: yeahbut but micropython.. :s
2022-11-30T23:29:51 < fenugrec> IIRC there was a lua fork optimized for embedded, wonder if it's still around
2022-11-30T23:29:59 < qyx> elua it was?
2022-11-30T23:31:04 < fenugrec> that's right, https://eluaproject.net/
2022-11-30T23:32:35 < karlp> inzvim? iirc wsa using it on stm32.
2022-11-30T23:33:35 < karlp> there's a variety of mini js impls too aren't there? jerryscript, duktape, a few others that come and go?
2022-11-30T23:35:00 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.121.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2022-11-30T23:35:16 < karlp> mujs looks to be active still
2022-11-30T23:36:11 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.121.223] has joined ##stm32
2022-11-30T23:44:27 < qyx> the main issue with MP is this https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/examples/embedding/hello-embed.c
2022-11-30T23:44:36 < qyx> its state is global
--- Log closed to joulu 01 00:00:23 2022