--- Log opened to joulu 01 00:00:23 2022
2022-12-01T00:24:32 < fenugrec> hmm... is there a way to find where the cpu was when an IWDG reset happened ? looks like all registers are wiped
2022-12-01T00:25:03 < fenugrec> and the attached debugger doesn't "catch" this event (this is on M0)
2022-12-01T00:25:55 < qyx> hm, WWDG has a pre-reset interrupt
2022-12-01T00:27:43 < fenugrec> yea WWDG has its own vector, but not IWDG
2022-12-01T00:28:29 < fenugrec> I can look at the stack area but that won't tell me much since SP is also wiped
2022-12-01T00:53:50 < fenugrec> duh, I can also just disable IWDG and wait for the thing to hang, then pause debugger
2022-12-01T00:59:38 < Steffanx-> Hah
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2022-12-01T01:25:01 < qyx> l
2022-12-01T01:25:04 < qyx> lol
2022-12-01T01:26:12 < qyx> kaki: you were right, jerryscript or duktape it will be
2022-12-01T01:28:03 < kaki> everything will be javascript
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2022-12-01T01:54:13 < rustyaxe> i pray not
2022-12-01T01:54:19 < rustyaxe> for the sake of humanity
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2022-12-01T14:06:49 < karlp> qyx: if you want to go arcane, openwrt just built their own "almost javascript" because they wanted a smaller/faster/ thing than lua.
2022-12-01T14:07:11 < karlp> openwrt's classically high levels of NIH were also involved, presumably,
2022-12-01T14:07:22 < karlp> I doubt they even _looked_ at jerrryscript, mujs or duktape.
2022-12-01T14:15:57 < karlp> https://github.com/jow-/ucode for ref
2022-12-01T14:16:18 < karlp> it's goals might not align with yours though.
2022-12-01T14:16:36 < karlp> it's primarily targetted at the json to/fro and templating that the openwrt ui needs/uses.
2022-12-01T14:17:16 < karlp> I love how they made a design goal to _not_ use lua tables.
2022-12-01T14:17:21 < karlp> which I think are fucking awesome
2022-12-01T14:18:45 < PaulFertser> < jow> I was looking for something with C / ECMAScript like syntax, non-async code flow, a Perl-esque stdlib (just a few dozen basic functions like split(), length() etc.), PHP style t
2022-12-01T14:18:49 < PaulFertser> emplating and the "smallness" of Lua without the associated syntactic verbosity, builtin bitops and very simple way to read and write json
2022-12-01T14:20:30 < karlp> it was also straight up feature creep from the firewalls work that ended up in a new language.
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2022-12-01T14:58:52 < zyp> qyx, what do you mean by «its state is global» and why is it an issue?
2022-12-01T15:00:15 < jpa-> difficult to run separate instances of the interpreter
2022-12-01T15:01:40 < zyp> yeah, that much is obvious, but say you only want to run one
2022-12-01T15:02:47 < jpa-> another thing about micropython is that it expects to call into C code, not be called from C code, but that is quite separate issue from the global state
2022-12-01T15:03:14 < zyp> I know, and that is also fine
2022-12-01T15:04:05 < jpa-> i don't even know who and what is the application we are discussing, though :)
2022-12-01T15:04:45 < zyp> what I'm somewhat interested in doing is running micropython on orbtrace, for headless scriptable operation
2022-12-01T15:05:33 < zyp> put a script on a sdcard and put it in the orbtrace, script attaches to target, turns on ITM and whatever and records to SD card
2022-12-01T15:05:49 < jpa-> qyx: pawn is pretty easy to embed and is tiny (i used it with 32kB flash space on DSO Quad) - the language is very nice for simple stuff and pretty terrible for complex stuff
2022-12-01T15:06:14 < jpa-> downside being that it needs a compiler on PC to produce bytecode
2022-12-01T15:06:39 < zyp> I've had a bunch of issues where being able to leave an autonomous orbtrace with a target for a while would have been great
2022-12-01T15:06:59 < zyp> and micropython seems like a decent way of doing that
2022-12-01T15:07:16 < jpa-> i agree for orbtrace :)
2022-12-01T15:10:18 < zyp> there's already litex support in micropython which I tried a few months ago, so it's easy enough to build and run micropython on the orbtrace
2022-12-01T15:11:02 < zyp> but I'd like to embed it into a laks-based debugger firmware
2022-12-01T15:11:52 < zyp> potentially with interwork between laks' C++ coroutines and micropython's asyncio
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2022-12-01T16:25:24 < qyx> zyp: it is a blocking issue, the use case is to be able to run user services in sandboxes on a DAQ system
2022-12-01T16:25:34 < qyx> obviously more than one
2022-12-01T16:27:25 < qyx> short scripts like "get values from some inputs every 5 seconds, accumulate for one hour, compute some periodogram, package it, compress, put into a fifo, send copy over mqtt, etc"
2022-12-01T16:28:17 < qyx> for bonus points, ability to run more complex services like CLI
2022-12-01T16:28:37 < qyx> which are better done in a high language
2022-12-01T16:36:33 < fenugrec> forth, for street cred
2022-12-01T16:36:47 < zyp> fair enough, if you need more than one, micropython seems fairly unsuitable
2022-12-01T16:38:25 < zyp> why do you need sandboxing between multiple services? is there a security aspect to this, or just fault isolation?
2022-12-01T16:38:35 < jpa-> though could just use a bigger cpu with mmu
2022-12-01T16:38:48 < qyx> I even considered Mono, but thatwould not allow me to compile scripts on the device
2022-12-01T16:38:53 < zyp> probably eats too much battery
2022-12-01T16:39:24 < qyx> nah, security is overrated
2022-12-01T16:39:37 < qyx> mainly to isolate user errors
2022-12-01T16:42:26 < karlp> fenugrec: you mean, for when you don't want to have any users?
2022-12-01T16:42:52 < fenugrec> karlp, exactly - reduces the number of bug reports since nobody can figure it out
2022-12-01T16:42:58 < karlp> street cred on the wind blown street in the deserted town, a few wize old greybeards still holding on...
2022-12-01T16:43:21 < karlp> fucking hell btle is fragile sometimes.
2022-12-01T16:43:29 < fenugrec> heh, I've seen forth used as main firmware on some old piece of gear, was a bit surprised
2022-12-01T16:43:30 < karlp> it does something so nicely, then other stuff is just... lol., no.
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2022-12-01T17:30:11 < catphish> this looks rather nice https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/49-How-to-build-your-own-parts-library-in-JLCPCB
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2022-12-01T17:59:05 < begriffs> I noticed my Nucleo F411RE lacks an HSE. Someone said in a forum that it can use the 8mhz clock from the attached ST-Link board. Anyone know how to configure that?
2022-12-01T18:00:09 < jpa-> first look at the nucleo board schematic to see which pin the 8MHz comes into, then look to reference manual to see which registers you need to set to take clock from there
2022-12-01T18:00:35 < jpa-> or alternatively, just treat it as if it was 8 MHz HSE crystal, and it will probably work just fine
2022-12-01T18:03:05 < begriffs> OK, I'll try to decypher the schematic. If you look at the picture, https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-f411re.html , there's a spot on the board marked X3 with nothing attached. Then, on that top detachable board, there's a spot marked X1 that has a crystal plugged in.
2022-12-01T18:04:38 < jpa-> yes, pretty normal for most nucleo boards
2022-12-01T18:04:55 < jpa-> the user manual probably tells most about it also
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2022-12-01T18:08:58 < n0toose> Evening! is it possible to use the CMSIS-DSP library for the Nucleo-144 (STM32F429)?
2022-12-01T18:10:11 < jpa-> why not?
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2022-12-01T18:15:34 < n0toose> I'm currently trying to use https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ARM-software/CMSIS-DSP/main/ARM.CMSIS-DSP.pdsc using STM32's built-in packet manager, but I keep getting a linker error for an "undefined reference to <function>"
2022-12-01T18:15:58 < n0toose> I think that the question comes down to "how do I import this".
2022-12-01T18:16:40 < Streaker> -l ?
2022-12-01T18:16:56 < n0toose> Wait, I'm using STM32Cube.
2022-12-01T18:17:09 < jpa-> such a bait question
2022-12-01T18:17:26 < jpa-> "how do i do this reasonable thing... using a steaming pile of crap?"
2022-12-01T18:17:51 < n0toose> sorry, didn't mean to bait, i am just trying to wrap my head around this and increasingly figure out how to give proper amounts of information
2022-12-01T18:18:34 < jpa-> generally you would just download the code and compile it, but i guess STM32Cube's package manager *should* work
2022-12-01T18:18:49 < n0toose> "should" is very optimistic given the IDE here :D
2022-12-01T18:18:53 < jpa-> it's just that pretty few people use STM32Cube on this channel, because we bully everyone who does
2022-12-01T18:19:38 < n0toose> i honestly don't blame you
2022-12-01T18:19:54 < rustyaxe> cube is dreadful. i wasted at least 3 days trying to make that javaturdware run properly on my arm laptop :P
2022-12-01T18:20:13 < rustyaxe> then i discovered some nice makefiles that let me build arduino crud on stm32 :P
2022-12-01T18:20:18  * rustyaxe hides
2022-12-01T18:20:35 < n0toose> do any of you happen to know what's the least shit way to actually develop for this platform, while i'm at it?
2022-12-01T18:20:49 < n0toose> the hand i've been dealt with basically forces me to use stm32cube and that problem will remain, ... but
2022-12-01T18:21:21 < jpa-> pick a build system (such as makefiles) and use it, don't add anything you don't know why you would need it
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2022-12-01T18:39:36 < Steffanx-> I used the cube, but I didnt know it has a package manager something 
2022-12-01T18:39:46  * Steffanx- goes back into hiding.
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2022-12-01T18:55:44 < zyp> jpa-, so what is worse, cube or the arduino stuff?
2022-12-01T18:57:16 < jpa-> two days ago i would have said cube, but then i saw Laurenceb's mess and i'm no longer sure
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2022-12-01T19:07:22 < braindamage> there's always the unknown about his own doing tho
2022-12-01T19:08:34 < jpa-> yeah, but if a platform cannot make up its mind whether a readBytesUntil() should null-terminate and whether it should read N or N-1 bytes, it is pretty crappy
2022-12-01T19:10:31 < aandrew> cube isn't perfect, but it has been a pretty consistent and stable platform for me. Arduino's always a mess of library updates and breakage for anything non-trivial
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2022-12-01T19:11:07 < aandrew> mind you I also avoid as much of cube's autogen bullshit as possible. I generate the base then basically never use the GUI again
2022-12-01T19:11:21 < aandrew> my own makefile and that's pretty much it
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2022-12-01T21:57:53 < kaki> Steffanx-: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRaCZBeVhdQ musics
2022-12-01T22:10:38 < bitmask> I can't believe it took me this long to realize that as you add new features your project code automatically becomes better and more general/less strict and its stupid to try to make it work for everything from the beginning
2022-12-01T22:18:58 < kaki> not sure if you are having seizure or enlightenment
2022-12-01T22:20:07 < kaki> you mean like chopping down bigger functions into smaller functions that are universal and can be used by other features of your code right?
2022-12-01T22:22:13 < kaki> there is downside to that approach
2022-12-01T22:22:30 < bitmask> no like say for small example my vulkan image class.  Most use cases have default settings but eventually you get to special cases that require specialization. instead of trying to guess of all the things you need to support, just create it for the default case in the beginning and add as you go. trying to do it all in the beginning is insane and adds useless stuff and is usually a bad design in the end
2022-12-01T22:22:31 < kaki> if you try to reach ultimate universality
2022-12-01T22:23:07 < kaki> sounds like it needs templates!
2022-12-01T22:23:26 < bitmask> def not
2022-12-01T22:23:38 < kaki> templates can do anything nowdays
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2022-12-01T22:23:52 < bitmask> yea well its usually not necessary
2022-12-01T22:23:59 < bitmask> i only use them when they are necessary
2022-12-01T22:24:09 < bitmask> like my ECS system
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2022-12-01T22:25:59 < Steffanx->  -system
2022-12-01T22:26:12 < bitmask> system system
2022-12-01T22:27:10 < qyx> karlp: whoa the ucode thing.. the syntax is weird
2022-12-01T22:27:18 < bitmask> ugh compiling takes forever, the other shitty thing about templates
2022-12-01T22:27:55 < qyx> "resembling ecmascript" is probably exactly what it is
2022-12-01T22:30:52 < zyp> qyx, sounds fun :p
2022-12-01T22:35:16 < qyx> I haven't developed any form of love with it so far
2022-12-01T22:38:51 < qyx> micropython site lists freenode and twitter, I guess it is a bit outdated
2022-12-01T22:51:16 < b-rex> freenode and twitter are still functional
2022-12-01T23:06:37 < Steffanx-> At least the freenode website is no longer this weird wannabee reddit site.
2022-12-01T23:10:22 < bitmask> damn, i broke my engine
2022-12-01T23:10:25 < bitmask> its all blue
2022-12-01T23:10:55 < Steffanx-> So time to add audio and play "I
2022-12-01T23:10:57 < Steffanx-> m blue" 
2022-12-01T23:12:10 < Steffanx-> Remember new features = better
2022-12-01T23:14:21 < qyx> I broke my engine literally
2022-12-01T23:15:02 < qyx> last week re
2022-12-01T23:15:29 < Steffanx-> why?
2022-12-01T23:15:31 < qyx> remnants of a china made 4 stroke 53cc generator broke into two
2022-12-01T23:16:02 < qyx> the generator part disintegrated
2022-12-01T23:16:22 < Steffanx-> of the generator you were.. modding?
2022-12-01T23:16:43 < qyx> yes, the last functional part of it
2022-12-01T23:17:36 < qyx> which was made of an alu alloy of unknown quality
2022-12-01T23:17:50 < PaulFertser> Time to learn welding alu?
2022-12-01T23:18:10 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/engine.jpg duromax make some nice engines.. Dunno if any *that* small, thats my 208CC
2022-12-01T23:18:54 < qyx> q
2022-12-01T23:19:04 < qyx> is that a custom silencer?
2022-12-01T23:19:19 < rustyaxe> that's the pipe my slip-on muffler goes on yea.
2022-12-01T23:19:32 < rustyaxe> i dont think i've photo of the slip on
2022-12-01T23:19:52 < rustyaxe> but it used to be a baseball bat before i drilled holes in the end of it and chopped it to length
2022-12-01T23:20:15 < rustyaxe> It slips over the fibeglass (which i added some to the inside of it) -- there's holes in the pipe all around it
2022-12-01T23:20:34 < rustyaxe> arduino ignition system
2022-12-01T23:21:04 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mRBCg
2022-12-01T23:21:21 < qyx> this is mine, I did ignition on a nucleo-32 board
2022-12-01T23:21:26 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/deathtrap.jpg it makes fuck :P
2022-12-01T23:21:39 < rustyaxe> 61mph is my top speed. It has a lot more to go but i want no part of that
2022-12-01T23:22:10 < qyx> lol
2022-12-01T23:22:20 < rustyaxe> the handgrip is taped because it was shocking me
2022-12-01T23:22:32 < rustyaxe> had a problem with ignition coil (replaced it since)
2022-12-01T23:22:45 < rustyaxe> it was wet riding and it kept shockign me so i got tape out the tool pouch
2022-12-01T23:22:47 < qyx> I had problems with everything
2022-12-01T23:22:55 < rustyaxe> Every tool needed to fix it fits in that pouch besides a welder
2022-12-01T23:23:13 < qyx> I also modded the carb to eat ethanol
2022-12-01T23:23:18 < rustyaxe> change tubes, tires, chain, rebuild carb, swap engine :P
2022-12-01T23:23:23 < rustyaxe> nice. this has a chikuni on it
2022-12-01T23:23:24 < qyx> it was running nicely and very smooth
2022-12-01T23:23:47 < qyx> compared to E10 before
2022-12-01T23:23:48 < rustyaxe> GM map sensor to read load and hall sensor for picking up the magnets for the magneto charging :P
2022-12-01T23:23:53 < qyx> and smoke free
2022-12-01T23:23:58 < PaulFertser> 100 km/h on that thing... You must be very brave.
2022-12-01T23:24:15 < rustyaxe> PaulFertser: my balls nearly exceed its weigh limit.
2022-12-01T23:24:23 < rustyaxe> its entirely homemade
2022-12-01T23:24:47 < rustyaxe> besides the frame which i repaired some tweaker's mangling of a 1960's Alexander Reynolds (ARCO) bike
2022-12-01T23:25:49 < rustyaxe> Polices do not even bother to pull me over on it. They just shake their heads
2022-12-01T23:25:59 < Steffanx-> True redneck mr rustyaxe is :)
2022-12-01T23:26:06 < rustyaxe> I go speed limit and use the turn signals, etc
2022-12-01T23:26:20 < rustyaxe> It has horn, headlight, brake lights, hydraulic brakes
2022-12-01T23:26:22 < rustyaxe> 11.5hp
2022-12-01T23:26:24 < rustyaxe> err brake
2022-12-01T23:28:01 < rustyaxe> has a CVT transmission, tank holds 0.5us gal (~1.85L) and will go about 60 miles.
2022-12-01T23:28:22 < rustyaxe> It'll take off on a wheelie and ride it down the street all the way to whatever speed you fall off, if you're stupid enough
2022-12-01T23:29:13 < rustyaxe> my friend is about 19.5 stones and it threw him off like he was a childling :P
2022-12-01T23:38:23 < PaulFertser> How is offroading on it?
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2022-12-01T23:48:33 < rustyaxe> A blast lol
2022-12-01T23:48:40 < rustyaxe> the CVT makes huge difference
2022-12-01T23:49:03 < rustyaxe> i keep up with the big ATVs lol
2022-12-01T23:49:21 < PaulFertser> Don't ATVs come with CVT too usually?
2022-12-01T23:49:35 < rustyaxe> no most are either manual or 4 speed automatics
2022-12-01T23:50:17 < rustyaxe> its 4.4:1 gear ratio now. It was 6:1 and i literally couldn't keep the front wheel on the ground once the clutch engaged, no matter how well i eased into it :P
2022-12-01T23:51:10 < rustyaxe> this is still a touch sketchy as far as torque (it's off getting new engine tray built to avoid breaking stuff due to flexing the n
2022-12-01T23:52:53 < PaulFertser> You have some serious fun there!
2022-12-01T23:58:08 < rustyaxe> i've driven it halfway across my state when the plague first began
2022-12-01T23:58:37 < rustyaxe> Not a car or a cop to seen on the highway. Fun tines cruising 55mph on that little thing. Too much fun to worry of "I built this..." :P
--- Day changed pe joulu 02 2022
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2022-12-02T00:03:04 < karlp> qyx: meant to be ~standard ecmascript, ?
2022-12-02T00:03:10 < karlp> not my cup of tea,
2022-12-02T00:07:39 < Steffanx-> Halfway across the state rustyaxe? You must be very tiny or your back is gone now.
2022-12-02T00:07:54 < Steffanx-> Where you even have your legs?
2022-12-02T00:08:59 < tomeaton17> below the waist i assume
2022-12-02T00:09:23 < PaulFertser> On a hardtail that's all even more impressive.
2022-12-02T00:10:12 < Steffanx-> Or he has detachable legs. Hm
2022-12-02T00:10:31 < PaulFertser> Do you stand or seat on offroad sections?
2022-12-02T00:10:43 < tomeaton17> sounds like a good project idea i will propose to my boss
2022-12-02T00:12:58 < rustyaxe> there's pegs on it to put your feet
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2022-12-02T00:13:20 < Steffanx-> Still very uncomfortable..
2022-12-02T00:13:29 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/deathtrap2.jpg
2022-12-02T00:13:31 < rustyaxe> Something like taht
2022-12-02T00:13:47 < tomeaton17> reassuring url
2022-12-02T00:14:16 < rustyaxe> im ~4 cubits tall
2022-12-02T00:14:32 < rustyaxe> 3.9
2022-12-02T00:14:37 < Steffanx-> How many stones?
2022-12-02T00:15:00 < rustyaxe> ~13
2022-12-02T00:15:49 < tomeaton17> i cant click that they are tracking me
2022-12-02T00:16:13 < Steffanx-> Ohno
2022-12-02T00:16:20 < rustyaxe> would teh church website be more comfor~table?
2022-12-02T00:16:25 < Steffanx-> Just do it tomeaton17 
2022-12-02T00:16:43 < rustyaxe> yes, do not have afraids.
2022-12-02T00:17:02 < tomeaton17> I don't want to bring my integrity into question
2022-12-02T00:17:14 < Steffanx-> It's sfw
2022-12-02T00:17:26 < rustyaxe> Do not have so much afraid. You only die once.
2022-12-02T00:18:04 < tomeaton17> lol
2022-12-02T00:18:24 < rustyaxe> would a church URL make you more comfortable?
2022-12-02T00:19:16 < rustyaxe> http://churchofdiscord.org/bike1.jpg
2022-12-02T00:19:20 < rustyaxe> Better? :P
2022-12-02T00:22:24 -!- tomeaton17 [~tomeaton1@2a02:c7f:1f64:d400:501e:b52c:bde:73d7] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2022-12-02T00:34:02 < Steffanx-> He was killed I guess
2022-12-02T00:35:02 < qyx> which plague, the seasonal flu?
2022-12-02T00:35:32 < rustyaxe> qyx: 'rona
2022-12-02T00:35:35 < rustyaxe> WuFlu
2022-12-02T00:39:40 < karlp> meh, was wondering why my power good led was wonky as shit.
2022-12-02T00:39:52 < karlp> what did I do? fucking 330ohm to the switch node and a led to the pgood pin.
2022-12-02T00:40:03 < karlp> what does it _say_ to do," pull iit high with at least 10k"
2022-12-02T00:40:14 < karlp> stupid last minute shit.
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2022-12-02T14:41:00 < benishor> I have this problem: I computed several FIR filters with different specs for audio work. I would like to be able to switch between them without audible clicks 
2022-12-02T14:41:23 < benishor> would lerp work between old and new filter for the duration of an audio block processing?
2022-12-02T14:42:00 < benishor> I mean lerping not between the coefficients but the processed samples
2022-12-02T14:44:43 -!- Laurence_b [~Laurenceb@14.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2022-12-02T14:44:45 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/tqbf/status/1598513757805858820#m
2022-12-02T14:47:45 < benishor> yeah, made an account at beta.openai.com
2022-12-02T14:47:56 < benishor> there's an api you can use to automate things for you
2022-12-02T14:48:39 < braindamage> benishor: a strong part of the click is the 2nd filter storage registers being empty
2022-12-02T14:49:03 < benishor> braindamage: makes sense
2022-12-02T14:49:20 < braindamage> so feed the other filter the same audio for a while, then switch
2022-12-02T14:49:35 < benishor> brilliant
2022-12-02T14:49:40 < benishor> thanks brainy!
2022-12-02T14:49:42 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: are you sure that was generated?
2022-12-02T14:51:17 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/SHudeal
2022-12-02T14:51:21 < benishor> this is what I got for the same prompt
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2022-12-02T14:57:04 < Laurence_b> lol prob fake
2022-12-02T14:59:05 < PaulFertser> That's funny too what benishor got.
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2022-12-02T15:04:08 < benishor> I asked the model to write me a radix sort example in c++ and it started typing :)
2022-12-02T15:04:37 < benishor> so I know ask it if it's sentient
2022-12-02T15:13:27 < zyp> what's a peanut buffer?
2022-12-02T15:17:08 < karlp> braindamage: nice tip on switching filters...
2022-12-02T15:19:32 < benishor> karlp: yeah, but it will have to run in parallel at least the number of taps of the new filter
2022-12-02T15:19:47 < benishor> so that the history will be full
2022-12-02T15:20:36 < karlp> this is why you use IIR instead FIR, fuck all those taps :)
2022-12-02T15:21:42 < benishor> not if you want linear phase :)
2022-12-02T15:22:44 < karlp> audiophoolery again :)
2022-12-02T15:23:18 < benishor> nah,  doing radio here
2022-12-02T15:23:43 < benishor> and I want linear phase in order not to have ringing for narrow bandwidth filters
2022-12-02T15:24:01 < karlp> I'ðm not a dsp guy, I'm not going to have any opinion beyond this :)
2022-12-02T15:43:16 < jpa-> zyp: heh, yeah, probably explains the difference - after all removing a peanut buffer is very different process
2022-12-02T15:43:40 < rustyaxe> What kinda radio? ^.^
2022-12-02T15:48:21 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stm32cube.png   :/ i'm not convinced
2022-12-02T15:50:28 < benishor> rustyaxe: a HF ham radio transceiver
2022-12-02T15:51:37 < benishor> jpa-: quite coherent answers though
2022-12-02T15:51:52 < benishor> ask it to generate some code :)
2022-12-02T15:53:16 < rustyaxe> benishor: cool, you should probably drop in #hamradio there's a few people there could help ya
2022-12-02T15:53:53 < jpa-> i think we can replace ##stm32 with chatgpt: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_scripting.png  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_readbytesuntil.png
2022-12-02T15:56:17 < braindamage> benishor: since you have a FIR, which is unconditionally stable, you can just define a blend coefficient between the old and the new filter coefficients, and then gradually step it
2022-12-02T15:56:51 < braindamage> the step amount should be at least as long as the slowest time constant you have
2022-12-02T15:57:18 < benishor> braindamage: hence the lerping I was talking about
2022-12-02T15:57:18 < Steffanx-> Can you try this question about filters, jpa-  ?
2022-12-02T15:58:21 < jpa-> Steffanx-: looks like i ran out of my quota for today :D
2022-12-02T15:58:23 < Steffanx-> If it gives the same solutions as bd, then we know its just using ##stm32 as a dataset.
2022-12-02T15:58:27 < Steffanx-> Ah too bad
2022-12-02T15:58:46 < braindamage> benishor: it's only valid for FIR tho, with IIR you can accidentally hit unstable conditions in the transition and generate high frequency noise
2022-12-02T15:59:34 < braindamage> with IIR you'd have to analyse that all the points in the trajectory are sufficiently stable
2022-12-02T15:59:51 < jpa-> ah, was just a few minutes quota: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_lerp.png
2022-12-02T16:00:01 < jpa-> interpolating in frequency domain sounds pretty strange though
2022-12-02T16:00:52 < benishor> braindamage: just to be on the same page, you weren't talking about output interpolation but coefficient interpolation?
2022-12-02T16:01:20 < braindamage> coefficient interpolation indeed
2022-12-02T16:01:30 < benishor> that would require filters with the same taps
2022-12-02T16:01:52 < benishor> I think I will stick to your first approach
2022-12-02T16:01:55 < braindamage> nah, the other taps are simply 1 coefficients
2022-12-02T16:01:58 < jpa-> i must say, the answers are surprisingly reasonable  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_lerp2.png
2022-12-02T16:02:04 < benishor> braindamage: ah yes
2022-12-02T16:02:33 < jpa-> benishor: for FIR, coefficient interpolation is the same thing as output interpolation (just assign 0 for the taps that are not used)
2022-12-02T16:03:03 < jpa-> but to avoid phase shift, match the group delay by padding with zeros from either side
2022-12-02T16:03:40 < benishor> \o/
2022-12-02T16:03:42 < benishor> thanks guys
2022-12-02T16:03:48 < benishor> lots of brainpower on #stm32
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2022-12-02T16:07:05 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_hse.png  seems legit but cube :F
2022-12-02T16:08:17 < braindamage> it tends to repeat part of the question a lot, as if making statements and not replying to a question
2022-12-02T16:08:27 < braindamage> it reminds me a bit of stackoverflow answers
2022-12-02T16:08:52 < jpa-> yeah, i think that is a major source of the programming related training data
2022-12-02T16:12:50 < jpa-> if you ask it too difficult questions, it just times out
2022-12-02T16:13:10 < jpa-> such as asking specific questions about STM32 peripherals
2022-12-02T16:15:01 < benishor> probably fetching input
2022-12-02T16:15:17 < benishor> although it constantly repeats it doesn't fetch data from the internets
2022-12-02T16:15:54 < jpa-> yeah, i think it does not, but probably it loops in some annealing process until the result is sufficiently good, and if that takes too long it just gives up
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2022-12-02T16:20:26 < jpa-> or maybe it means "no comments".. https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/chatgpt_irc.png
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2022-12-02T16:22:06 < karlp> gak, silabs shell scripting leaves a lot to be desired.
2022-12-02T16:22:43 < karlp> it runs "find" in your project root, and expects to ge ta single matching file, tries to operate on it, even if it gets multiple.
2022-12-02T16:22:54 < karlp> this is super intern level shell scripting crap too.
2022-12-02T16:23:18 < karlp> no functions! scripts should be scripts! straight through!
2022-12-02T16:23:39 < jpa-> no goto?
2022-12-02T16:26:58 < karlp> kinda want to re-write this, but out of scope for today...
2022-12-02T16:55:47 < karlp> lol: arm-none-eabi-nm -S build/debug/ebx-nova33.out | sed -e 's/^0[0-9a-f]\{7\}/flash\t&/' | sed -e 's/^2[0-9a-f]\{7\}/ram\t&/' | sort -k1,1 -k3,3
2022-12-02T16:55:54 < karlp> fuck yeah size usage.
2022-12-02T16:56:23 < karlp> sorted by size within "section" but preserving the addresses.
2022-12-02T16:56:27 < karlp> sed to glory
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2022-12-02T17:44:24 < karlp> ok, so we're back to btle bluez and dbus working jsut fine on _one_ computer, and not on another...
2022-12-02T18:07:01 < qyx> jpa-: lol the HSE question
2022-12-02T18:08:59 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2022-12-02T18:18:32 < qyx> https://github.com/eblot/newlib/blob/master/newlib/libc/stdlib/dtoa.c#L20
2022-12-02T18:18:33 < qyx> really
2022-12-02T18:19:53 < qyx> meh those random forks
2022-12-02T18:20:22 < qyx> and mirrors
2022-12-02T18:20:54 < qyx> lol karpm I am nm-ing too now without reading your last lines
2022-12-02T18:28:25 < qyx> everytime I see those FreeRTOS variables and function names I am tempted to do something rude
2022-12-02T18:32:21 < Steffanx-> Do it. Maybe you'll feel better
2022-12-02T18:50:08 < fenugrec> I think the dude would be happy to here his code from 1991 is still relevant
2022-12-02T18:50:11 < fenugrec> to *hear
2022-12-02T19:02:34 < benishor> braindamage, jpa-: is there an easier method for frequency shifting a real signal other than making it complex and complex multiplying it with the desired difference quadrature signal?
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2022-12-02T19:10:17 < Steffanx-> benishor: ask the AI ;)
2022-12-02T19:11:39 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oPPh7.png
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2022-12-02T19:13:24 < benishor> hahah
2022-12-02T19:13:24 < jpa-> benishor: you can change the samplerate
2022-12-02T19:13:43 < jpa-> but yeah, the gpt answers are valid also :)
2022-12-02T19:14:03 < benishor> yeah, I think I'll stick with complex
2022-12-02T19:14:13 < jpa-> (after changing samplerate, you can use any of the normal methods of resampling to get back at the samplerate you actually want)
2022-12-02T19:14:32 < benishor> it sounds less computationally expensive
2022-12-02T19:14:41 < jpa-> benishor: what do you do after you have the complex multiplication result?
2022-12-02T19:14:50 < benishor> jpa-: I just take the real part
2022-12-02T19:14:56 < jpa-> is that valid?
2022-12-02T19:15:01 < benishor> why not?
2022-12-02T19:15:45 < jpa-> intuitively it just feels like that would give weird results
2022-12-02T19:16:21 < jpa-> but maybe not then
2022-12-02T19:16:22 < benishor> I mean I'll have to test it but my intuition is crazy enough to think it might work
2022-12-02T19:16:46 < jpa-> but if you do that, you don't really need a full complex multiplication anyway
2022-12-02T19:16:49 < benishor> either that or I keep all my things in complex and select the sideband only at the end
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2022-12-02T20:42:48 < Laurence_b> kek this is a new conspiracy
2022-12-02T20:43:07 < Laurence_b> >Vladimir Putin personally blew up the cargo door on the MS Estonia
2022-12-02T20:43:10 < Laurence_b> big if true
2022-12-02T20:45:58 < Steffanx-> ok
2022-12-02T20:56:56 < Laurence_b> oh wait, no that was a distraction, actual bomb was in the hold
2022-12-02T20:57:08 < Laurence_b> mastermind Putler
2022-12-02T21:09:53 < Steffanx-> Ok
2022-12-02T21:11:04 < qyx> OK
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2022-12-02T21:23:35 < qyx> Duktape python tooling is obsolete, migrate to JS-based tooling!
2022-12-02T21:23:39 < qyx> Exception: failed to detect Node.js, override with --nodejs-command
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2022-12-02T21:39:33 < benishor> any of you fine gentlemen pursuing advent of code?
2022-12-02T21:41:08 < Steffanx-> No
2022-12-02T21:46:05 < rustyaxe> no im trying to teach some bits of silicon how to be a radio again as they forgot
2022-12-02T21:55:26 < zyp> I am
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2022-12-02T22:36:50 < qyx> what is advent of code, enlighten me
2022-12-02T22:39:43 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit []
2022-12-02T22:40:32 < benishor> https://adventofcode.com/2022
2022-12-02T22:40:49 < benishor> an yearly coding contest which takes place from 1st of december to 25th
2022-12-02T22:41:06 < benishor> it's embedded with a story so it's quite fun
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2022-12-02T22:59:09 < karlp> yeah, because people aren't busy enough this time of year.
2022-12-02T22:59:14 < karlp> always bugs me :)
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2022-12-02T23:20:50 < qyx> ok not impressed by jerryscript and its embedding capabilities either
2022-12-02T23:21:00 < qyx> again a single global engine
2022-12-02T23:25:17 < mouseghost> qyx, are you putting js on stm32
2022-12-02T23:25:43 < qyx> https://gist.github.com/rtakacs/3948e3294bb05fd9c74f1566f831c2ec
2022-12-02T23:25:48 < qyx> I don't get it
2022-12-02T23:26:29 < qyx> this line specifically https://gist.github.com/rtakacs/3948e3294bb05fd9c74f1566f831c2ec#file-thread_demo-c-L54
2022-12-02T23:33:16 < mouseghost> qyx, whats so weird tho
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2022-12-02T23:49:11 < fenugrec> advent of code... like we don't have enough coding-related problems to solve already
2022-12-02T23:49:30 < benishor> pfft
2022-12-02T23:49:46 < benishor> guys, code is fun and you should code for the thrill of it
2022-12-02T23:49:54 < benishor> it's not a fucking job
2022-12-02T23:50:17 < benishor> I've been coding since 1993 and I am still hooked on it each and every day
2022-12-02T23:50:23 < fenugrec> I do - for me the thrill is making something useful
2022-12-02T23:50:55 < benishor> don't you ever just write code for testing ideas? playing around? exploring things?
2022-12-02T23:51:02 < rustyaxe> i enjoy it sometimes. sometimes i enjoy fire. and boobs :P if i had to deal with women all day, 5 days a week, i'd prolly not like them either.
2022-12-02T23:51:45 < rustyaxe> you spend 40+ hours of weeek in front of blinkenlights box..sometimes you want nothing to do with teaching rocks how to be not stupid :o
2022-12-02T23:52:00 < benishor> I have same hobbies I had when I was 13
2022-12-02T23:52:11 < benishor> electronics, coding, guitar, ham radio
2022-12-02T23:52:28 < benishor> game dev, demoscene, audio coding, whatever, just nuances
2022-12-02T23:52:36 < Steffanx-> I was going to say: No nut november must have been a hard month for you then 😋
2022-12-02T23:52:50 < fenugrec> no gcc november
2022-12-02T23:53:50 < fenugrec> beni I admire your enthusiasm for coding for the sake of coding, but I do not share it
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2022-12-02T23:53:57 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFi3rwOZaUAA7x1s.jpg
2022-12-02T23:54:42 < benishor> fenugrec: nothing wrong with that
2022-12-02T23:54:54 < benishor> as long as you are enthusiastic about anything else
2022-12-02T23:56:10 < karlp> I just ordered six usb load testers, I'm enthusiastic :)
2022-12-02T23:56:32 < Steffanx-> I recall a karlp saying he wouldn't do that
2022-12-02T23:56:48 < benishor> coding is amazing to me because you can align nothingness into performing a certain thing
2022-12-02T23:56:52 < Steffanx-> Or not yet. Might have been "not yet"
2022-12-02T23:56:54 < karlp> I said I wouldn't do that _before_ I got the boards back and working.
2022-12-02T23:57:00 < benishor> cheapest way to feel like a maker
2022-12-02T23:57:05 < karlp> but now they work sufficiently to test that sort of thing.
2022-12-02T23:57:19 < karlp> I do have another revision I'll need to do :)
2022-12-02T23:57:35 < karlp> I really didn't handle dynamic power switching between external and vbus very well (at all)
2022-12-02T23:58:32 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFi4BvrCUcAARTts.jpg
--- Day changed la joulu 03 2022
2022-12-03T00:04:40 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFjAFtMwWAAEM1OJ.jpg
2022-12-03T00:22:05 < Steffanx-> Can your thingy measure voltage and current of all ports (individually) and report it somehow karlp? For some reason I still want something like that.
2022-12-03T00:24:04 < zyp> a bunch of the advent of code tasks are pretty much solvable with oneliners
2022-12-03T00:25:01 < zyp> here's my solution for today: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zDqKN
2022-12-03T00:34:15 < englishman> Steffanx-: the ones that lux told me about some years ago that i bought were "dumb" with no digital communication, but that was a while ago maybe they have been updated
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2022-12-03T00:55:03 < karlp> mine? no, it's just a normal hub, but it uses the usb standard hub control shits
2022-12-03T00:55:21 < karlp> so the hub can report over current, per port, (set by hardware choices, but there's subs)
2022-12-03T00:55:42 < karlp> and you can issue commands via, eg, uhubctl, or pyusb or whatever, to ask the hub to turn the power on /off on each.
2022-12-03T00:56:04 < karlp> there's a few other things around that do the fulllllllll shit, but they basically use up a downstream port for that, and that seemed kinda janky.
2022-12-03T00:56:28 < karlp> and actually, the only ones I've seen actually didn't do full downstream v/i reporting, just basically re-implemented usb standard hub shits
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2022-12-03T02:42:38 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mHsBZ.png
2022-12-03T02:50:29 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/VlX4i.png
2022-12-03T02:53:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xXrvo.png
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2022-12-03T04:14:32 < catphish> who is doing this...?!
2022-12-03T04:15:59 < fenugrec> more importantly, why peanut butter
2022-12-03T04:16:57 < fenugrec> I will admit, I would like a movie adaptation of the hours-long pitchfork battle
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2022-12-03T08:23:32 < jpa-> zyp: :D
2022-12-03T08:25:28 < jpa-> qyx: seems like that jerryscript example has everything you need for running multiple instances - either you set the pointer per-thread (in RTOS or similar), or you switch it manually (if doing co-operative multitasking without RTOS)
2022-12-03T08:25:47 < jpa-> it's not like a single CPU would be running multiple instances simultaneously anyway
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2022-12-03T12:21:25 < qyx> jpa-: the one I linked?
2022-12-03T12:24:25 < qyx> aha they are using that thread local storage thing
2022-12-03T12:29:38 < qyx> it's super confusing
2022-12-03T12:33:04 < qyx> also jerry_init and jerry_cleanup are called multiple times
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2022-12-03T14:15:09 < jpa-> qyx: what if confusing about that? one vm per thread?
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2022-12-03T15:19:30 < qyx> no, tls is confusing, what is it for in that case? to avoid malloc for the case of avoiding malloc?
2022-12-03T15:20:02 < qyx> if you miss the __thread, the code makes no sense at all
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2022-12-03T15:31:52 < jpa-> qyx: huh? isn't the thread-local storage just so that it is easy to retrieve the per-thread VM state pointer?
2022-12-03T15:32:34 < jpa-> otherwise jerry_port_get_current_instance() would need to look up in some table based on thread id or something
2022-12-03T15:36:02 < qyx> I don't get it, what's that hard in using an instance pointer like everybody does and let the programmer decide how to obtain it?
2022-12-03T15:37:07 < jpa-> you mean, passed to every function?
2022-12-03T15:37:16 < qyx> of course
2022-12-03T15:37:43 < jpa-> "everybody does".. except, say, micropython, jerryscript etc.
2022-12-03T15:37:48 < jpa-> it's a design choice
2022-12-03T15:38:10 < qyx> but limiting the usage
2022-12-03T15:38:37 < jpa-> what is possible with instance pointer as parameter, but is not possible with instance pointer retrieved through function call?
2022-12-03T15:38:58 < rajkosto> multiple instances ?
2022-12-03T15:39:21 < jpa-> rajkosto: that is possible, demonstrated by example we are talking about
2022-12-03T15:39:31 < qyx> no
2022-12-03T15:39:37 < rajkosto> multiple instances in the same thread, reentrancy
2022-12-03T15:40:06 < jpa-> one thread won't be executing more than one instance at a time, you can swap the pointer if you want
2022-12-03T15:40:28 < jpa-> i agree, that specific usecase is *easier* with instance pointer as parameter, but it is not terribly complex either way
2022-12-03T15:41:32 < jpa-> probably in this case, as usually, it was initially designed for single instance only, and this was the easiest way to add support for multiple instances  https://github.com/jerryscript-project/jerryscript/commit/5e28bfc28ada61684f166deee994f1ff84c4db08
2022-12-03T15:44:38 < jpa-> having a static instance results in the smallest program code size; often these projects start that way, then bloat up and add more features later
2022-12-03T15:45:41 < qyx> back in 2015 we had in our coding guidelines "never assume anything to be a singleton"
2022-12-03T15:46:03 < qyx> because assuming so cause half of the android code to be rewritten later
2022-12-03T15:46:10 < qyx> *caused
2022-12-03T15:46:28 < qyx> 9/10 android and java programmers like singletons
2022-12-03T15:46:32 < jpa-> yeah, it is a pretty common guideline, and it can make sense - but you can't expect the rest of the world to follow your guidelines :)
2022-12-03T15:47:08 < qyx> that's sad
2022-12-03T15:47:46 < jpa-> do you always pass a malloc context pointer also, or do you assume that there is a singleton heap?
2022-12-03T15:48:06 < jpa-> or debug output stream pointer?
2022-12-03T15:48:16 < jpa-> and maybe a system timer pointer also
2022-12-03T15:50:52 < jpa-> one funny thing about porting from PC to embedded is that on PC everyone assumes there is a singleton filesystem access path, while on embedded it is pretty common to have e.g. SD card and ROM filesystems entirely separate; then you need to cook up some silly "/sd" "/rom" filename mapping layer
2022-12-03T15:56:33 < qyx> of course, you are using dependency injection
2022-12-03T15:57:11 < jpa-> in C? that's interesting, is it some framework or fully custom?
2022-12-03T15:58:01 < qyx> and on embedded you either pass preallocated data or assume malloc/free work if you are brave enough
2022-12-03T15:58:31 < qyx> in C I usually pass an instance of a filesystem for example
2022-12-03T15:58:58 < qyx> it is a bit uhm, weird, but usable
2022-12-03T15:59:42 < qyx> but yeah, heap pools are a thing too, chibios had them
2022-12-03T16:00:12 < qyx> I got your point, but still nah
2022-12-03T16:28:39 < qyx> reading wren.io, so far, so good
2022-12-03T16:29:13 < qyx> it is thrillig, I am expecting a feature I don't like on every single page of the syntax description
2022-12-03T16:30:05 < benishor> the guy who wrote wren works at google at dart
2022-12-03T16:30:16 < benishor> he also wrote a nice book on compilers/interpreters
2022-12-03T16:30:33 < benishor> https://craftinginterpreters.com/
2022-12-03T16:30:44 < benishor> free to read online
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2022-12-03T16:35:35 < qyx> it seems to have all, nice classes, getters, setters, operators
2022-12-03T16:35:44 < qyx> even method overloading
2022-12-03T16:35:56 < qyx> sufficiently clean syntax
2022-12-03T16:36:38 < qyx> but "all numbers are double" meh
2022-12-03T16:38:02 < jpa-> haha
2022-12-03T16:38:53 < jpa-> though not a bad tradeoff for a scripting language, even with software FPU it's not that slow
2022-12-03T16:39:55 < jpa-> https://github.com/marcobambini/gravity   there is also this but i haven't looked deeply into it
2022-12-03T16:40:57 < jpa-> (it has separate int vs. float at least :)
2022-12-03T16:51:29 < qyx> The Wren C implementation has no global state, so every single bit of data Wren uses is bundled up inside a WrenVM. You can have multiple Wren VMs running independently of each other without any problems, even concurrently on different threads.
2022-12-03T16:51:37 < qyx> much pro, so like
2022-12-03T17:02:14 < fenugrec> wren, another hobby language that will disappear in 3-4 years ?
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2022-12-03T17:09:54 < qyx> gravity  looks similar
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2022-12-03T22:25:18 < qyx> re wren, I don't like the syntax of writing function parameters
2022-12-03T22:33:22 < Steffanx-> Who has to write the scripts for it anyway?
2022-12-03T22:33:27 < Steffanx-> You?
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2022-12-03T22:47:45 < qyx> all the good people
2022-12-03T22:47:56 < qyx> and !e
2022-12-03T22:48:01 < qyx> *me, sorry
2022-12-03T22:59:08 < kaki> Steffanx-: musiocs
2022-12-03T22:59:10 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyOnkoySFBo
2022-12-03T23:05:30 < kaki> need to listen musics before nite ride
2022-12-03T23:06:08 < kaki> because my car has base level audio
2022-12-03T23:06:44 < kaki> nite ride>
--- Day changed su joulu 04 2022
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2022-12-04T00:22:27 < Steffanx-> uhmmm kaki ?
2022-12-04T00:23:12 < kaki> just came back from nite ride
2022-12-04T00:29:12 < kaki> Steffanx-: base level audio = only midrange speakers
2022-12-04T00:29:32 < Steffanx-> i mean the musics.. "uuuhm kaki"
2022-12-04T00:30:49 < kaki> isn't it?
2022-12-04T00:32:30 < kaki> catphish: do you know any car mods where alternator is replaced with high power generator?
2022-12-04T00:32:42 < kaki> to spin a compressor
2022-12-04T00:33:13 < kaki> my car needs supercharging
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2022-12-04T00:46:07 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Vck6oCi3A that's a bit large
2022-12-04T01:01:01 < kaki> maybe just gs450h gearbox
2022-12-04T01:06:11 < kaki> I couldn't
2022-12-04T01:06:26 < kaki> sodomize perfectly fine 6MT like that
2022-12-04T01:07:11 < rustyaxe> i hate when the computer argues with me that i cannot do something. Filthy machine, i will disassemble you into a stack of components...
2022-12-04T01:12:17 < kaki> who was that guy who designed all these cool analog chips
2022-12-04T01:12:51 < kaki> and threw a computer out of office window because computer was not doing what he wanted or something
2022-12-04T01:14:17 < qyx> jim williams was the analol guy
2022-12-04T01:14:36 < qyx> but idk if he threw a computer out of a window
2022-12-04T01:17:55 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrZ_fMqd8k8
2022-12-04T01:18:47 < kaki> that guy has his picture in those analog magazines
2022-12-04T01:19:00 < kaki> analol newsletter
2022-12-04T01:19:09 < kaki> or whatever it is
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2022-12-04T01:20:54 < kaki> https://mobile.twitter.com/thilographie_de/status/715151746889330688/photo/1 but I think this guy was the guy
2022-12-04T01:21:23 < kaki> and that video being renactment idk
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2022-12-04T02:51:13 < catphish> kaki: no
2022-12-04T02:51:26 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/mia_bunghole.mp3
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2022-12-04T15:06:21 < Steffanx-> You alright, rustyaxe?
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2022-12-04T16:28:09 < rustyaxe> Steffanx-: Oh yes. Was leaving a holiday gift on someone's voicemail :P
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2022-12-04T16:32:11 < Laurence_b> holy sheet lmao holy fucking sheeeettt lmao
2022-12-04T16:32:13 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/RokoMijic/status/1599401360310427649#m
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2022-12-04T16:39:54 < Steffanx-> Where's the funny part?
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2022-12-04T23:09:27  * qyx @ home PC
2022-12-04T23:09:34 < qyx> going to try that wren.io on stm32
2022-12-04T23:11:59 < qyx> opened discord, clicked 8 times on "got it", "no, I don't want", "later"
2022-12-04T23:12:10 < qyx> sorry, 10
2022-12-04T23:12:23 < qyx> 11
2022-12-04T23:12:26 < qyx> is that even possible
2022-12-04T23:12:32 < qyx> how could anyone use it
2022-12-04T23:26:32 < Steffanx-> Ok
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--- Day changed ma joulu 05 2022
2022-12-05T00:05:26 < qyx> what's the easiest way of determining how much space a library takes in the final elf?
2022-12-05T00:05:52 < qyx> except of comparing the resulting size before/after
2022-12-05T00:06:23 < qyx> arm-none-eabi-size *.o of the library files gives different results
2022-12-05T00:06:48 < fenugrec> maybe objdump
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2022-12-05T00:42:36 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H2KlvoHqSM
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2022-12-05T01:04:25 < zyp> qyx, I don't think there is an easy way
2022-12-05T01:05:20 < zyp> if you run size on the library itself, it also counts functions that's not getting called and hence not linked in
2022-12-05T01:05:49 < zyp> it'll give you sort of an upper bound
2022-12-05T01:05:58 < qyx> but the sum is lower
2022-12-05T01:06:06 < qyx> sum of the library files i mean
2022-12-05T01:06:27 < qyx> *of the library object files
2022-12-05T01:06:42 < zyp> well, it's not counting inlined code
2022-12-05T01:07:04 < zyp> also, lower than what?
2022-12-05T01:07:10 < zyp> what are you comparing against?
2022-12-05T01:07:17 < zyp> just not calling it?
2022-12-05T01:07:26 < qyx> the resulting elf has eg. 77 KB
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2022-12-05T01:07:33 < qyx> I add a library and some code to call it
2022-12-05T01:07:41 < qyx> the sum of object files of the library is 60 KB
2022-12-05T01:07:53 < qyx> but the resulting elf is now 170 KB
2022-12-05T01:08:12 < zyp> inlined code?
2022-12-05T01:08:35 < zyp> run size on your .o files before and after
2022-12-05T01:08:44 < zyp> see which .o files increased in size
2022-12-05T01:09:04 < qyx> like inlined from the library?
2022-12-05T01:09:36 < zyp> yes
2022-12-05T01:09:47 < qyx> but but how and where
2022-12-05T01:09:53 < qyx> the only possibility is through the header
2022-12-05T01:09:58 < zyp> indeed
2022-12-05T01:10:38 < zyp> when you run size on the .elf, it should be roughly the sum of all .o files that went into it, minus all the dead code that got thrown out
2022-12-05T01:11:12 < zyp> so if the .elf grew by more than the library objects, some of your own objects grew enough to account for the rest
2022-12-05T01:12:05 < zyp> this is assuming no LTO, not sure what running size on a LTO .o gets you
2022-12-05T01:12:33 < zyp> with LTO the linker itself could duplicate code for inlining
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2022-12-05T01:33:23 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFjGxXMQagAATpbQ.jpg
2022-12-05T01:33:34 < Laurence_b> artificial retardation
2022-12-05T01:43:28 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFjKYuA6aAAApItP.jpg
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2022-12-05T09:46:06 < benishor> do you guys know of a decent realtime audio spectrum analyzer for linux?
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2022-12-05T10:34:57 < qyx> https://github.com/DRNadler/FreeRTOS_helpers#we-support-freertos-yeah-woo-hoo
2022-12-05T10:34:57 < qyx> hah
2022-12-05T10:59:30 < qyx> continuing with duktape, current master doesnt work, because 1. includes node-js-yaml wrongly
2022-12-05T10:59:44 < qyx> 2. requires nodejs >= 14
2022-12-05T10:59:53 < qyx> so, going back to stable 2.7.0
2022-12-05T11:00:02 < qyx> TypeError: cannot use a string pattern on a bytes-like object
2022-12-05T11:00:06 < qyx> what did I just see
2022-12-05T11:00:13 < qyx> python3 is apparently too new for it
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2022-12-05T12:07:51 < Steffanx-> Lol didnt you go with wren?
2022-12-05T12:12:03 < qyx> I have both
2022-12-05T12:12:22 < qyx> I am dealing with duktape because I have already integrated it and now it is broken
2022-12-05T12:12:59 < qyx> also, stepping through the Wren compiler because it hardfaults
2022-12-05T12:27:34 < benishor> https://friture.org/download.html
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2022-12-05T12:53:16 < jpa-> https://www.engraved.blog/building-a-virtual-machine-inside/   this chatgpt just gets weirder
2022-12-05T13:00:29 < Streaker> chatgpt has to be some kind of a scam surely? how can it be so advanced?
2022-12-05T13:02:11 < jpa-> by catering to the way humans evaluate smartness
2022-12-05T13:02:28 < karlp> "confidently wrong" as someone put it.
2022-12-05T13:03:04 < jpa-> yeah, able to write smart looking text without grammar errors and containing some correct facts
2022-12-05T13:04:18 < Streaker> imagine having to evaluate your students work for plagiarism when they are using chatgpt to write their assignments...
2022-12-05T13:04:52 < karlp> easys, you juust outsource it to one of the existing plagiarism shits, which uses the same ai... 
2022-12-05T13:05:29 < karlp> undergrad plagiarism detection sounds like such a pain in the arse, with such limited rewards.
2022-12-05T13:05:55 < karlp> but I get that fake it til you make it can mean some people get away with copying early to get the breaks from "graduating with good grades"
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2022-12-05T13:10:19 < karlp> gah, sigrok is such a cesspit.
2022-12-05T13:11:18 < jpa-> don't come complaining to #sigrok or the only remaining person with commit rights will have a breakdown :)
2022-12-05T13:11:24 < PaulFertser> Abandoned by the maintainers?
2022-12-05T13:11:36 < jpa-> yeah, uwe has disappeared somewhere
2022-12-05T13:12:01 < karlp> just like all their projects.
2022-12-05T13:12:11 < karlp> just ... ghosted.
2022-12-05T13:12:49 < karlp> I should just unsubscribe from the list.
2022-12-05T13:13:22 < jpa-> you've been on the maling list? i never bothered :)
2022-12-05T13:13:37 < karlp> oh, it's super low volume.
2022-12-05T13:13:44 < karlp> and it was less toxic than the irc.
2022-12-05T13:13:58 < jpa-> possible
2022-12-05T13:14:15 < jpa-> nowadays the irc is just people coming complain that their favourite pull request is not going anywhere
2022-12-05T13:14:58 < karlp> don't worry, the mailing list is bikeshedding a pr on style guide updates to the HACKING file, they're not doing any _functional_ pr's either.
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2022-12-05T13:16:24 < karlp> and "that one committer" writing lengthy diatribes about the community not doing it's part or something...
2022-12-05T13:16:29 < karlp> bleh.
2022-12-05T13:16:42 < karlp> so much potential, just all frozen up now.
2022-12-05T13:16:55 < braindamage> reminds me of arch linux arm somehow
2022-12-05T13:17:06 < jpa-> frozen until someone forks it and starts actually maintaining it
2022-12-05T13:17:14 < braindamage> the maintainer there is a dick, and turns away contributions
2022-12-05T13:17:15 < karlp> don't exactly trust stonerberg either, they're continually re-inventing with next hour's gpu toolkits.
2022-12-05T13:17:45 < braindamage> and its existance is not sufficiently horrible to warrant someone else to commit to a fork
2022-12-05T13:18:36 < braindamage> stonerberg seems to be always too busy trying to do one thing "perfectly" rather than trying do one thing
2022-12-05T13:19:12 < braindamage> where perfectly becomes a constantly moving goalpost in his mind
2022-12-05T13:19:24 < karlp> yeah, I thought about adding support for my shitscope there, isntead of to sigrok, but it was literally crashing with the demo drivers and his suggestion was that I work on fixing the demo driver, to see how easy it was...
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2022-12-05T13:55:14 < qyx> whats that https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kSiQu/Screenshot_2022-12-05_12-54-57.png
2022-12-05T13:55:53 < qyx> this is the code with line numbers 
2022-12-05T13:55:55 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gEoyC/Screenshot_2022-12-05_12-55-32.png
2022-12-05T13:56:38 < qyx> it hardfaults in calling prefix(), the one outside the while loop
2022-12-05T13:57:38 < jpa-> so what is the faulting instruction, register values and SCB->CFSR value?
2022-12-05T13:58:20 < jpa-> or are you just confused that the compiler optimization makes gdb step in a weird order?
2022-12-05T13:59:13 < qyx> the latter
2022-12-05T13:59:33 < jpa-> use   display /i $pc   and   stepi   instead
2022-12-05T13:59:43 < zyp> that's what happens when you try stepping through source for optimized code
2022-12-05T13:59:56 < zyp> step instructions and look at the disassembly instead
2022-12-05T14:02:21 < jbo> how's everybody doing today?
2022-12-05T14:02:25 < zyp> good
2022-12-05T14:02:31 < jbo> that's nice to hear :)
2022-12-05T14:03:00 < karlp> I just null pointered'd linux, and then tried to turn on the power to a radio, get annoyed that it didn'-t work, before realizing that there's no radio soldered on this board... (yet)
2022-12-05T14:03:16 < karlp> I'm otherwise good, I found some missing firmwarres and kmods that I think might help :)
2022-12-05T14:03:32 < zyp> help for having no radio soldered?
2022-12-05T14:04:26 < karlp> no, help for when it doesn't work even when it is soldered :)
2022-12-05T14:04:59 < karlp> I had btusb generic kmod loaded, and it could happily scan my devices advertisements, but couldn't connect to them.
2022-12-05T14:05:18 < karlp> turns out my laptop has an extra kmod for btusb_rtl and also firmware files it loads, which I was missing
2022-12-05T14:05:28 < karlp> I'm ... hoping, those give me the "rest" of the functionality :)
2022-12-05T14:06:03 < karlp> anyway, lunch thyme I think.
2022-12-05T14:06:26 < jbo> what are you innovating?
2022-12-05T14:07:31 < karlp> innovations.
2022-12-05T14:08:23 < qyx> innovating failed wrn compiler at a method call
2022-12-05T14:09:10 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/GAp4g
2022-12-05T14:09:16 < qyx> is this the thing I am looking for?
2022-12-05T14:10:04 < jpa-> in the sense that you see the instructions, yes; but other than that, i don't know what you are looking for
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2022-12-05T14:17:05 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/4p2bz
2022-12-05T14:17:42 < qyx> I am not entirely sure what I am looking at
2022-12-05T14:18:44 < jpa-> next check SCB->CFSR
2022-12-05T14:19:07 < jpa-> and "info registers" also
2022-12-05T14:19:14 < jpa-> possibly $r7 pointer was crap and that's why the store faulted
2022-12-05T14:19:47 < qyx> str faulted? not mov.w?
2022-12-05T14:19:57 < jpa-> or it could also be that you can enabled some interrupt that doesn't have handler and the crash has nothing to do with the code that was executing
2022-12-05T14:20:14 < jpa-> that mov won't fault
2022-12-05T14:20:24 < jpa-> so either it is delayed fault from the store, or something totally else
2022-12-05T14:20:45 < jpa-> i'm not sure if store faults can get delayed that way when single-stepping, but they certainly can when running normally
2022-12-05T14:21:46 < jpa-> (in fact, you should probably just run "vecstate" from that nice macro file)
2022-12-05T14:22:05 < qyx> r7 is crap 0x1ffff210
2022-12-05T14:23:06 < jpa-> it seems r7 is derived from stack pointer directly
2022-12-05T14:23:20 < jpa-> so perhaps you have stack overflow
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2022-12-05T14:24:25 < qyx> cfsr is 0x1400
2022-12-05T14:25:27 < jpa-> imprecise stacking error.. so yeah, probably corrupted stack pointer
2022-12-05T14:25:36 < jpa-> or stack overflow
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2022-12-05T14:29:56 < qyx> putting a while(1) before the line indeed makes it "work"
2022-12-05T14:30:24 < qyx> freertos says it has at least 560 words of stack space free
2022-12-05T14:30:26 < jpa-> it seems to be allocating over 2kB of data on stack, so you might want to check how much stack space you have available at that point
2022-12-05T14:31:14 < qyx> I allocated 4K, so yes, 2K seems to be allocated
2022-12-05T14:31:39 < jpa-> it's trying to allocate 566 words and failing when trying to write at start of it, so freertos won't see the usage as it fails immediately
2022-12-05T14:32:16 < qyx> how do you know ť66 words?
2022-12-05T14:32:35 < jpa-> addwr5, sp, #2264
2022-12-05T14:32:37 < qyx> do you have a crystal ball
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2022-12-05T14:33:05 < jpa-> though the faulty pointer is 3.5 kB before start of SRAM, so maybe there are more allocations before the paste starts
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2022-12-05T14:38:37 < qyx> hm yeah added another 4K of stack and it fails later
2022-12-05T14:44:22 < karlp> bleh, exactly the same fucking dbus bullshit with the rest of the driver adn firmware.
2022-12-05T14:44:59 < karlp> at least lunch was tasty :)
2022-12-05T14:47:54 < qyx> ok out of memory, fukit
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2022-12-05T15:19:54 < karlp> huh, bleak bluetooth lib has some optimizations on "receiving advertisments is a hot path" and it removes a string startswith check.  I wonder how many ads they were processing that they noticed that as a"hot" path.
2022-12-05T15:22:29 < zyp> haha
2022-12-05T16:00:07 < karlp> meh, updated bleak, there's been a mountain of change in the last six months, many of them look very useful.  now my laptop doesn't work either, let alone the fucking realtek radio.
2022-12-05T16:00:18 < karlp> whackamole 4 lyfe...
2022-12-05T16:02:54 < karlp> not sure bisect will be useful here either...
2022-12-05T16:10:59 < rustyaxe> realtek :(
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2022-12-05T17:14:16 < fenugrec> cool, you can get a pic16f15276 with 2GB of ram https://www.mouser.ca/c/?q=PIC16F15276
2022-12-05T17:15:00 < karlp> hoho.
2022-12-05T17:17:00 < rustyaxe> lol
2022-12-05T17:19:11 < karlp> well.  I hadn't been looking a lot at my app size, it was fitting in falsh, no biggies.
2022-12-05T17:19:42 < karlp> but was having some issues with the silabs "reboot into the bootloader and it can handle OTA" giving me a lot of problems with bluez not liking the device re-appearing with different services and shit.
2022-12-05T17:20:05 < karlp> "ok, lets use the app notes on using an in app OTA, using half the flash for the new image"
2022-12-05T17:20:18 < karlp> the "soc_empty" default image is 185k.
2022-12-05T17:20:29 < karlp> there's 352k flash.
2022-12-05T17:20:45 < drzacek> 2gb? wtf
2022-12-05T17:20:45 < karlp> you need a bigger part, out of the box, to do the split load.
2022-12-05T17:20:58 < karlp> without any app at all :|
2022-12-05T17:23:44 < specing> fenugrec: maybe one of their customers is microsoft...
2022-12-05T17:24:15 < fenugrec> nah just targetting the upython clientele I'm guessing
2022-12-05T17:24:18 < fenugrec> or JS or whatever
2022-12-05T17:24:27 < fenugrec> heh
2022-12-05T17:25:17 < specing> it's probably a typo, datasheet says 2K
2022-12-05T17:25:33 < karlp> "probably" ? :)
2022-12-05T17:25:42 < fenugrec> yes, that's the joke - I don't think anybody makes 2GB for that price, in a 5V-compatible process, and DIP package ...
2022-12-05T17:26:17 < fenugrec> and pic16...
2022-12-05T17:26:28  * karlp starts banking his bank registers for his other bank registers for his other bank registers to even attempt to address it...
2022-12-05T17:26:36 < specing> lol
2022-12-05T17:26:50 < specing> fenugrec: POP ram :)
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2022-12-05T23:16:26 < qyx> imagine PDIP POP RAM
2022-12-05T23:37:27 < qyx> TIL #pragma unused
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--- Day changed ti joulu 06 2022
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2022-12-06T00:32:48 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFjL6GB9XoAAqpQQ.jpg
2022-12-06T00:33:00 < Laurence_b> anarchists confirmed as extreme right wing terrorists
2022-12-06T00:33:47 < rustyaxe> everyone's an extreme right wing terrorist unless they do their terrorism in a dress :P
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2022-12-06T01:14:32 < qyx> jpa-: embedding gravity is not that trivial as I though
2022-12-06T01:15:21 < qyx> it needs a monotonic nanosecond timer for example
2022-12-06T01:16:48 < qyx> it has visualstudio, xcode and cmake projects
2022-12-06T01:17:21 < qyx> and uses delegate_t
2022-12-06T01:17:43 < qyx> which tells which environment the author(s) come from
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2022-12-06T02:09:51 < Laurence_b> breaking news: Putin has shat himself!
2022-12-06T02:11:37 < kaki> well helo lurencer
2022-12-06T02:12:14 < kaki> gib us juicy hyper stories from jubb
2022-12-06T02:17:39 < kaki> hyperstories
2022-12-06T02:24:38 < kaki> how did the grant thing go?
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2022-12-06T02:35:25 < Laurence_b> An EU-funded study found evidence of widespread criminal, risky and delinquent behaviour among the 16-19 age group in nine European countries including the UK. A survey of 8,000 young people found that one in four have trolled someone online
2022-12-06T02:35:29 < Laurence_b> shocking news
2022-12-06T02:35:41 < Laurence_b> grant wont start until March next year
2022-12-06T02:35:52 < Laurence_b> I have to work on muh teensy datalogger
2022-12-06T02:36:06 < catphish_> only one in four?
2022-12-06T02:36:24 < Laurence_b> >one in three have engaged in digital piracy. It also found that four out of 10 have watched porn
2022-12-06T02:36:28 < Laurence_b> shocking news
2022-12-06T02:36:51 < catphish_> 4... out of 10 have watched porn?
2022-12-06T02:37:50 < catphish_> all those numbers seem implausibly low
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2022-12-06T02:39:03 < catphish_> none of those are "criminal, risky and delinquent" though
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2022-12-06T03:22:02 < kaki> Are they trying to say these are alarming numbers?
2022-12-06T03:22:40 < kaki> I would add *only to each of them
2022-12-06T03:24:00 < kaki> piracy one is suprising
2022-12-06T03:24:37 < kaki> this generation after all is the generation that have had streaming services for good part of their teenage years
2022-12-06T03:28:36 < catphish_> it sounds like the headline writer is trying to make it sound alarming, that's their job after all :)
2022-12-06T03:42:42 < kaki> have had streaming services and also seen them to go into shit*
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2022-12-06T04:24:28 < machinehum> Revision 3 of the dimmer back
2022-12-06T04:24:31 < machinehum> Not working at all
2022-12-06T04:24:39 < machinehum> I'm fucking sick of this chip
2022-12-06T04:24:42 < machinehum> It doesn't work
2022-12-06T04:24:51 < machinehum> Everything from on is lies
2022-12-06T04:25:13 < machinehum> They know it doesn't work that's why their demo board isn't available
2022-12-06T04:25:54 < machinehum> What a nightmare
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2022-12-06T15:10:18 < Steffanx-> Where is upgrdman?
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2022-12-06T19:12:20 < kaki> do you need licence key for win7?
2022-12-06T19:13:03 < kaki> or do you only get that wallpaper that says no you
2022-12-06T19:13:21 < kaki> need to run win7 for compatibility reasons in VM
2022-12-06T19:16:19 < rustyaxe> not sure, i usually wipe the demo OS when i get a new computer and put devuan on it
2022-12-06T19:16:49 < rustyaxe> id give you the key off this dell but the sticker is long ago become mostly unreadable
2022-12-06T19:17:15 < rustyaxe> you should at least get 30 days on a fresh install tho, fwiw without any nags
2022-12-06T19:25:24 < Steffanx-> €1 ebay keys \o/
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2022-12-06T19:40:36 < mawk> kaki: you can get special vm image from microsoft that lasts 30 days without activation
2022-12-06T19:40:40 < mawk> when it's over you just wipe it and start agian
2022-12-06T19:40:56 < mawk> 90 days actually
2022-12-06T19:40:57 < mawk> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
2022-12-06T19:40:58 < mawk> here
2022-12-06T19:41:03 < mawk> in theory it's to test IE and Edge compatibility
2022-12-06T19:41:06 < mawk> but you can use it for anything
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2022-12-06T19:41:31 < mawk> but if you want durable activation you can buy keys for cheap online
2022-12-06T19:41:34 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
2022-12-06T19:41:42 < mawk> you just sometimes have to use telephon activation as they are activated a lot
2022-12-06T19:41:43 < PaulFertser> Or use this for free.
2022-12-06T19:49:58 < rustyaxe> ah 90 days. thats far longer than i'd want to deal with a windows install lol
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2022-12-06T20:01:13 < kaki> you know there is version of windows that doesn't have activation
2022-12-06T20:01:21 < kaki> doesn't have telemetry
2022-12-06T20:01:32 < kaki> doesn't have win update
2022-12-06T20:01:39 < kaki> and it's by microsoft
2022-12-06T20:02:08 < kaki> it's for embedded and industry shits
2022-12-06T20:02:20 < kaki> raw win10
2022-12-06T20:03:29 < karlp> heh, so I did this circuit on my hub, copied off a nanopi thing that used it for 5V from pins vs 5V from vbus, 
2022-12-06T20:03:31 < karlp> https://www.microfarad.de/blog/the-ideal-diode/
2022-12-06T20:04:01 < karlp> and... I see exactly the same as the commenter, that my usb port reports overcurrent when it turns on.
2022-12-06T20:04:26 < karlp> this... maybe... is because I didn't really think about the parts, and just used two discrete pnps, not a matched pair :)
2022-12-06T20:05:19 < karlp> though the commenter there was using a matched pair too.
2022-12-06T20:05:55 < BrainDamage> ok, there's a bit more than that
2022-12-06T20:06:09 < karlp> yeah, I was kinda winging it.  
2022-12-06T20:06:16 < BrainDamage> that's a current mirror, a current mirro has a systematic bias
2022-12-06T20:06:38 < BrainDamage> because the left transistor is used as a diode, while the right one as current source
2022-12-06T20:06:54 < BrainDamage> the left transistor exhibits a 1/gm impedance to an input signal
2022-12-06T20:07:02 < karlp> gm?
2022-12-06T20:07:18 < karlp> transconductance something?
2022-12-06T20:07:21 < BrainDamage> Ic/Vth
2022-12-06T20:07:23 < BrainDamage> yes
2022-12-06T20:08:01 < karlp> so it's an ideal diode, but only if "correct" side is the one you want to use preferentially when both are available?
2022-12-06T20:09:09 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PBLWC.png is how some of the common SBCs do it, that I was ripping off,
2022-12-06T20:09:18 < BrainDamage> replace either R1 or R2 with a trimmer
2022-12-06T20:09:30 < BrainDamage> and adjust until the circuit's fully balanced
2022-12-06T20:10:05 < BrainDamage> that will compensate the offset in both the transistor's beta, and the systematic one in the asymmetry in the circuit
2022-12-06T20:10:34 < karlp> balance means what in this case, the emitter voltages being equal?
2022-12-06T20:11:17 < BrainDamage> the collectors
2022-12-06T20:11:33 < karlp> collectors, yes, the ones without the arrows.
2022-12-06T20:12:13 < karlp> so an actual matched pair should have been fine?
2022-12-06T20:12:48 < BrainDamage> possibly, they should also be placed physically close, because temperature can create a mismatch
2022-12-06T20:16:50 < kaki> where do I find these 1eur keys
2022-12-06T20:17:00 < kaki> ebay had like 20eur keys
2022-12-06T20:20:15 < kaki> for fujitsu laptop
2022-12-06T20:25:29 < Steffanx-> oh, maybe theyre gone for win 7
2022-12-06T20:25:31 < Steffanx-> Who needs win7
2022-12-06T20:26:05 < Steffanx-> hmm, not for win 10/11 either. Banned from ebay? :o
2022-12-06T20:38:11 < fenugrec> just used win7 in a VM this morning !
2022-12-06T20:38:22 < fenugrec> some USB hardware with uncooperative MTP mode
2022-12-06T20:40:12 < PaulFertser> kaki: use the script I linked to
2022-12-06T20:40:47 < Steffanx-> Are those scripts even legal? (not that i care, but .. github,microsoft etc.)
2022-12-06T20:48:12 < karlp> I use the IE test vms for the very rare things I want window sfor, works fine.
2022-12-06T20:48:21 < karlp> I've even tested IE in them :)
2022-12-06T20:51:09 < karlp> BrainDamage: those collectors _should_ be the same voltage right? with only one side connected?
2022-12-06T20:51:33 < BrainDamage> with the same input on both sides
2022-12-06T20:51:57 < karlp> otherwise Vbe apart?
2022-12-06T20:59:57 < BrainDamage> otherwise, depends, are the voltages sufficient to drive the transistors?
2022-12-06T21:00:19 < BrainDamage> if yes, they should still be equal
2022-12-06T21:00:45 < BrainDamage> the circuit is called a "current mirror", it tries to read the current in the left branch and copy it in the right one
2022-12-06T21:04:57 < karlp> it's a little wonky to test actually, the vbus side is ~4.6-4.7V normally, because yay, shitty hubs upstream, and the other side is ~5.1V frrom my power supply.
2022-12-06T21:05:15 < karlp> and the vbus side hiccups as it decides it shorting and turns it on and off.
2022-12-06T21:05:26 < karlp> I've got a couple of things to poke at though, thanks for your advice.
2022-12-06T21:05:59 < karlp> if I keep the right hand side "higher" at 5.1 stable, it should alway sjust work, which is enough to test other parts of this at least.
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2022-12-06T21:57:56 < qyx> night shift begins
2022-12-06T21:58:05  * qyx checks his to-do list
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2022-12-06T22:13:46 < kaki> which one is better in VM guest win7 or win10?
2022-12-06T22:14:06 < kaki> I've learned that the software works mostly on win10 too
2022-12-06T22:15:43 < kaki> PaulFertser: okay
2022-12-06T22:17:00 < kaki> karlp: why not using PMOS reverse protection circuit?
2022-12-06T22:18:00 < kaki> you have multiple source +5v?
2022-12-06T22:20:05 < kaki> what is the difference of your ideal diode and pmos reverse protection circuit?
2022-12-06T22:23:12 < kaki> PaulFertser: does it support win7?
2022-12-06T22:23:27 < kaki> anyways I'm stupid
2022-12-06T22:24:04 < kaki> I can just get win10 from microsoft that is ~equivalent resources and just never activate it
2022-12-06T22:24:34 < kaki> it will gib me the shame banner but otherwise it's just as legit as any win10
2022-12-06T22:27:43 < Steffanx-> jbo: what are you doing?
2022-12-06T22:32:21 < PaulFertser> kaki: probably, Online KMS Windows / Office 180 Days. Lifetime Activation With Renewal Task
2022-12-06T22:32:38 < kaki> aah
2022-12-06T22:33:11 < kaki> nah
2022-12-06T22:33:25 < kaki> I don't want my VM guest to have internets
2022-12-06T22:33:34 < PaulFertser> Use w10
2022-12-06T22:33:37 < kaki> yes
2022-12-06T22:35:53 < jbo> Steffanx-, spending the evening with $gf. she's going to .nl tomorrow for a few days. and I will go to .nl over new-year
2022-12-06T22:36:16 < jbo> Steffanx-, mainly afk right now, ttyl o/
2022-12-06T22:36:21 < Steffanx-> I was referring to the sportsball things. Its not going to be dutchland-swisserland now. :P
2022-12-06T22:36:36 < jbo> I have literally no idea what you're talking about
2022-12-06T22:36:50 < Steffanx-> lol football, world cup, swisserland playing.
2022-12-06T22:36:54 < jbo> oh
2022-12-06T22:36:57 < jbo> how did it go?
2022-12-06T22:37:12 < Steffanx-> i just read its only 5-1.. not for swisserland
2022-12-06T22:37:22 < jbo> alright, thanks for the update :D
2022-12-06T22:37:52 < Steffanx-> anyway, have fun mr jbo 
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2022-12-06T23:20:48 < machinehum> Anyone know of a half decent little 8bit mcu that's available
2022-12-06T23:21:15 < machinehum> I'm looking at the atmega85... but I know it's old as shit
2022-12-06T23:21:27 < zyp> stm32g0, just ignore the other 24 bits
2022-12-06T23:22:34 < machinehum> Needs to be 5V supply
2022-12-06T23:22:38 < machinehum> Forgot about that
2022-12-06T23:22:53 < machinehum> I'm building a dimmer from scratch now, because fuck onsemi there shit doesn't work
2022-12-06T23:23:31 < zyp> so if you're building it from scratch, why can't you just pick 3.3V rather than 5V?
2022-12-06T23:24:39 < machinehum> Good point
2022-12-06T23:24:50 < machinehum> I guess I can slam a 5V regulator in
2022-12-06T23:25:13 < machinehum> It needs to be little https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STM32G031J6M6/10300265
2022-12-06T23:28:07 < zyp> strictly speaking, the qfn variants are smaller than the so8 :)
2022-12-06T23:29:42 < qyx> yeah qfn28 is very usable
2022-12-06T23:30:14 < qyx> if not, there is a tssop14 and 20 version
2022-12-06T23:30:29 < qyx> tssop14 is quite new, I haven't tried it yet
2022-12-06T23:38:13 < machinehum> true
2022-12-06T23:39:21 < karlp> kaki reverse protection isn't really the same? goal is just power or'ing, 
2022-12-06T23:39:41 < kaki> ah
2022-12-06T23:39:58 < kaki> then is your circuit really a diode
2022-12-06T23:43:57 < machinehum> Going to taking bits from this https://sound-au.com/project157.htm
2022-12-06T23:44:08 < machinehum> But the 7555 will be an MCU
2022-12-06T23:44:29 < machinehum> And powered from an isolated supply, gate drive will be isolated as well
2022-12-06T23:45:23 < machinehum> I'll keep his little supply at the top, just for powering the gates of the fets
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2022-12-06T23:59:25 < Steffanx-> Is stm8 available? It's not tooo bad.
--- Day changed ke joulu 07 2022
2022-12-07T00:00:48 < qyx> hush
2022-12-07T00:00:58 < qyx> I'll kill you with avr
2022-12-07T00:01:19 < Steffanx-> Avr isn't too bad either
2022-12-07T00:02:08 < kaki> avr the bestest
2022-12-07T00:04:47 < karlp> hrm, so my buck regulator doesn't have any sort of reverse protection, but still, I have 5V applied to it's SW/vout nodes, and it ends up with 5.5V on it's inputs?!
2022-12-07T00:05:17 < machinehum> g0 shows power consumption when fetching from sram
2022-12-07T00:05:24 < machinehum> I wonder if anyone does that
2022-12-07T00:05:54 < zyp> karlp, which regulator?
2022-12-07T00:05:59 < karlp> sic437
2022-12-07T00:06:24 < karlp> I found one of my problems, my bench supply was hitting my "cautious" current limits,.
2022-12-07T00:06:29 < karlp> need to lurn2read.
2022-12-07T00:06:59 < karlp> over current protection doesn't seem to work though, reference schematic has no pullups, but part datasheets recommend then.
2022-12-07T00:07:02 < machinehum> 300uA at 2Mhz is pretty decent
2022-12-07T00:07:44 < zyp> so so you're feeding in 5V on the output, with the input effectively open?
2022-12-07T00:08:18 < zyp> if so, probably bootstrap cap getting charged past Vout
2022-12-07T00:08:35 < karlp> yeah, something like that.
2022-12-07T00:09:31 < karlp> gotta try and find _all_ the isses on this board first :)
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2022-12-07T00:36:55 < karlp> whee, OCP on the load switches works perfectly well. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iJhhX/20221206_223550-OCP-kicking-in.png
2022-12-07T00:36:59 < karlp> just gotta test better.
2022-12-07T00:37:28 < karlp> teh usb load gets shut off and then back on again, so it resets to no load
2022-12-07T00:37:44 < karlp> I kinda expected to see kernel events for usb overcurrent though
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2022-12-07T02:13:15 < Laurence_b> lol hyperboss left octoprint turned on on his 3d printer
2022-12-07T02:13:36 < Laurence_b> now he wants to know who sent the rapo-saurus rex
2022-12-07T02:15:47 < catphish_> that didn't happen did it
2022-12-07T02:16:24 < Laurence_b> yes
2022-12-07T02:16:36 < Laurence_b> t-rex with a big dick connected to it
2022-12-07T02:17:15 < Laurence_b> everyone knows it was the fat weeabo autist guy
2022-12-07T02:24:18 < fenugrec> Fun is exchanging emails with FLIR about them not giving a damn about the huge stack of GPL software they use and refuse to publish sources for
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2022-12-07T02:28:04 < catphish_> fenugrec: got an example?
2022-12-07T02:28:31 < fenugrec> "We appreciate your feedback in this matter, otherwise, we are not authorized to provide internal information about our products"
2022-12-07T02:28:56 < catphish_> fenugrec: i mean what software?
2022-12-07T02:28:58 < rustyaxe> fenugrec: good to know, i was considering buying one of their proucts
2022-12-07T02:29:12 < fenugrec> an IR camera (they make lots of these)
2022-12-07T02:29:33 < fenugrec> so, firmware. They have PC software that I haven't looked that probably uses some common code & libs
2022-12-07T02:29:59 < fenugrec> rustyaxe, feel free to let them know licensing considerations will affect your decision P )
2022-12-07T02:30:20 < catphish_> fenugrec: i was hoping for an interesting concrete example
2022-12-07T02:30:43 < fenugrec> C3, C5 handhelds, for starters
2022-12-07T02:30:48 < fenugrec> or am I misunderstanding
2022-12-07T02:31:11 < catphish_> and what are you claiming they copied?
2022-12-07T02:31:58 < fenugrec> distributing a linux firmware image and not providing sources
2022-12-07T02:33:58 < catphish_> oh the camera runs linux?
2022-12-07T02:34:03 < fenugrec> yea
2022-12-07T02:39:21 < catphish_> i googled for some info about this firmware format
2022-12-07T02:39:45 < catphish_> some weird guy called fenugrec seems to have reverse engineered some of it
2022-12-07T02:39:52 < fenugrec> LOL
2022-12-07T02:50:28 < zyp> bit surprising a big company like FLIR doesn't have an OSS compliance department
2022-12-07T02:51:36 < catphish_> https://www.flir.co.uk/support-center/Instruments/where-can-i-find-the-open-source-code-included-in-flir-softwares-/
2022-12-07T02:51:55 < catphish_> i suspect the company is big and messy
2022-12-07T02:52:16 < catphish_> some department cares, some other department doesn't
2022-12-07T02:52:50 < catphish_> and they have all this https://github.com/FLIR
2022-12-07T02:54:12 < catphish_> the big problem with GPL, if someone doesn't abide by it, you as a user can do absolutely nothing about it
2022-12-07T02:54:51 < zyp> I remember I had to look at some license bullshit once for a delivery to blackberry, they took it pretty seriously to check that it weren't encumbered by incompatible OSS licenses
2022-12-07T02:55:20 < fenugrec> teledyne is huge, surely they have people to look at this. I just haven't passed the gatekeeper yet
2022-12-07T02:55:27 < catphish_> plenty of companies do care
2022-12-07T02:55:33 < fenugrec> catphish_, good finds, will keep for reference
2022-12-07T02:55:54 < catphish_> fenugrec: yeah, they will have competent compliance people, but reaching them is hard
2022-12-07T02:56:07 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2022-12-07T02:56:20 < catphish_> and of course if they ignore you, you can't really do anything
2022-12-07T02:57:07 < catphish_> except to keep hassling, which may well work
2022-12-07T02:57:18 < zyp> you could barge straight into their offices, naomi wu style
2022-12-07T03:01:48 < catphish_> you could give the CTO a rusty trombone and ask him nicely
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2022-12-07T03:07:06 < rustyaxe> dont touch my trombone
2022-12-07T03:11:17 < machinehum> New development, and if I solve this I think I'm home free
2022-12-07T03:11:40 < machinehum> Gates are not firing, however there is 96V from Load to Neut
2022-12-07T03:12:08 < machinehum> So maybe something is leaking
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2022-12-07T10:45:54 < qyx> pracovne?
2022-12-07T10:45:56 < qyx> nah
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2022-12-07T12:03:32 < karlp> fucking shit software tagged reelase in 2018, and nothing since then,  despite three years of commits
2022-12-07T12:06:51 < jpa-> are you talking about libopencm3?
2022-12-07T12:07:01 < zyp> hah
2022-12-07T12:07:14 < karlp> it only has one tag, and it marks a stable point :)
2022-12-07T12:07:38 < karlp> fair call, but I sitll maintain that you shouldn't be trying to apt install libopencm3 as a versioned so though.
2022-12-07T12:07:44 < karlp> so not quite the same complaint.
2022-12-07T12:09:45 < jpa-> yeah, that's the same excuse i say for people who complain that i break the binary shared library ABI for nanopb - i'm not even trying to provide such :D
2022-12-07T12:10:19 < karlp> well, the library I'm using _does_ 
2022-12-07T12:10:48 < karlp> it's ok, it's fallout from all of the open source world discovering a few years ago jsut how far from posix they'd strayed with glibc when musl came and made people do things properly.
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2022-12-07T13:11:53 < benishor> ohai people of earth
2022-12-07T13:19:01  * karlp waves
2022-12-07T13:19:48 < benishor> 'sup yo?
2022-12-07T13:22:44 < benishor> it's amazing how we live in the future
2022-12-07T13:23:15 < benishor> I just enabled pay for openai.com so that I can use an AI as elmer
2022-12-07T13:23:42 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/h5HVc6R2
2022-12-07T13:23:46 < benishor> and he's not doing a bad job
2022-12-07T13:25:15 < qyx> that's cheating
2022-12-07T13:26:04 < benishor> of course
2022-12-07T13:26:22 < benishor> but it's amazing that it works
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2022-12-07T13:27:21 < jpa-> i think you'll get quite annoying glitches at buffer swap if you do it that way
2022-12-07T13:27:31 < jpa-> better use double buffering
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2022-12-07T13:27:58 < karlp> what's "as elmer" mean?
2022-12-07T13:28:02 < qyx> he was asking for the most basic example
2022-12-07T13:28:48 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/az2kTDSw
2022-12-07T13:28:51 < benishor> hahah
2022-12-07T13:29:03 < benishor> karlp: elmer is a mentor
2022-12-07T13:29:09 < benishor> or so I dig
2022-12-07T13:29:50 < qyx> ok lold
2022-12-07T13:31:33 < karlp> are you a ham person? 
2022-12-07T13:32:18 < benishor> karlp: yup, YO6SSW
2022-12-07T13:32:45 < benishor> https://mastodon.radio/@yo6ssw/109468263643710180
2022-12-07T13:33:01 < karlp> right, seems no-one uses "elmer" like that outside ham people :)
2022-12-07T13:33:12 < benishor> karlp: are you a ham too?
2022-12-07T13:33:17 < karlp> lol no.
2022-12-07T13:33:18 < jpa-> heh, "double buffering" but filling both buffers at the same time :)
2022-12-07T13:33:23 < karlp> I was just tryign to find out what the hell elmer was :)
2022-12-07T13:33:26 < benishor> jpa-: yeah, cute :)
2022-12-07T13:35:35 < benishor> I actually need to get started with SAI on my own for some tests (or at least use HAL). I was using libDaisy for my transceiver project and added tinyUSB for audio in/out and serial control of the transceiver
2022-12-07T13:36:08 < benishor> comparing my receiver performance with elecraft kx3's, I noticed I had some annoying 1KHz disturbances picked up
2022-12-07T13:36:45 < benishor> so I started hunting them down and it seems they are generated by the daisy seed board (probably due to layout or sw handling)
2022-12-07T13:37:17 < benishor> thus my next task is to ditch the support library and the simplest test on my own and see if the annoying disturber still appears
2022-12-07T13:39:11 < benishor> https://hq.scene.ro/spectrum2-2.png <- this is the outoput obtained by passing through the input to the output for an external codec using the same board
2022-12-07T13:39:35 < benishor> in this case I get a 2KHz disturber. in the case of the onboard codec I get 1KHz disturber
2022-12-07T13:40:02 < benishor> it's low level indeed but annoying enough to mess with my ocd
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2022-12-07T16:41:47 < karlp> wow, this package provides bash completions, but no actual command help
2022-12-07T16:41:57 < karlp> no -h, no nothing, just... hahah lol, read the source.
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2022-12-07T16:57:32 < fenugrec> FLIR: (was requesting a copy of the GPL sources they used for some fw) - "I have contacted [legal department], and they will not share the information that you are requesting."
2022-12-07T16:59:18 < benishor> karlp: isn't your mid name nostradamus?
2022-12-07T17:00:42 < karlp> fenugrec: you're going to need legal paper letterhead then, or get the PR machine gears grinding...
2022-12-07T17:01:11 < fenugrec> yea I have 1-2 tricks left before I call the GPoLice
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2022-12-07T17:09:01 < karlp> ahh, another milestone passed, had to install cmake again today
2022-12-07T17:09:19 < karlp> lasted almost exactly three months :)
2022-12-07T17:13:56 < rustyaxe> at least it's not GNU autofools :P
2022-12-07T17:14:17 < karlp> sure, unfortunately that shitball got installed again ages ago
2022-12-07T17:16:47 < rustyaxe> when you've got plenty of shitballs, might as well make a shit sammich
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2022-12-07T18:24:56 < benishor> where can one do a parametric search for stm32 microcontrollers?
2022-12-07T18:25:11 < benishor> knowing that I need some specific peripherals
2022-12-07T18:28:57 < fenugrec> st website has a parametric table hidden somewhere, I forget if it works accross families
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2022-12-07T18:32:16 < qyx> benishor: cube
2022-12-07T18:32:19 < qyx> or st web
2022-12-07T18:32:40 < qyx> but cube mcu selector is faster despite being.. cubish
2022-12-07T18:33:01 < benishor> fanks guises
2022-12-07T18:33:22 < benishor> https://www.st.com/content/my_st_com/en/products/development-tools/software-development-tools/stm32-software-development-tools/stm32-utilities/st-mcu-finder-pc.license=1670406096701.product=ST-MCU-FinderLin.version=5.0.0.html
2022-12-07T18:33:27 < benishor> google handed me that
2022-12-07T18:50:22 < fenugrec> Hah wow you can buy a pre-bodged THT resistor+fuse "assembly" https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Through-Hole-Resistors_TyoHM-FKN1W470RJBFuseS_C5249328.html
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2022-12-07T20:13:38 < Mangy_Dog> quick stupid question the f103cB is specced at 128KB flash.... What is that in true addressable size?
2022-12-07T20:13:41 < Mangy_Dog> 130?
2022-12-07T20:13:46 < Mangy_Dog> i cant remember
2022-12-07T20:23:57 < zyp> true?
2022-12-07T20:24:01 < zyp> like 128*1024?
2022-12-07T20:26:45 < Mangy_Dog> ie the addressable space size
2022-12-07T20:27:05 < Mangy_Dog> looking at stlink util its appears to be like 134kB
2022-12-07T20:27:22 < Mangy_Dog> or si that bit :D
2022-12-07T20:28:09 < Mangy_Dog> also stlink utility has got damn slow 
2022-12-07T20:28:12 < Mangy_Dog> all of a suden
2022-12-07T20:28:46 < zyp> I'm not sure what you're asking about, 128*1024 is 131072, that's how many bytes your flash can hold
2022-12-07T20:29:08 < zyp> I don't see how anything becomes 134
2022-12-07T20:33:21 < specing> "addressable" could include mask rom bootloader I guess?
2022-12-07T20:33:24 < Mangy_Dog> the eerpom library default is set to save at 0801f000
2022-12-07T20:33:32 < Mangy_Dog> thats 134344704
2022-12-07T20:34:40 < Mangy_Dog> Basically trying to find a space for the setting data to be saved... As my tricorder program seems to have leached into that area now
2022-12-07T20:34:51 < Mangy_Dog> causing it to crash when i save date :D
2022-12-07T20:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> data
2022-12-07T20:38:20 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2022-12-07T20:38:27 < Mangy_Dog> im an idiot
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2022-12-07T20:49:32 < Mangy_Dog> though I do fear im going to now have to save config data onto the sd card as im pretty much out of program space D:
2022-12-07T20:51:26 < zyp> I think I've mentioned a couple of times that you should consider upgrading to a more capable stm32 variant
2022-12-07T20:51:37 < zyp> f103 is bottom of the barrel trash :)
2022-12-07T20:52:06 < Mangy_Dog> i know but the hardwares done
2022-12-07T20:52:20 < Mangy_Dog> im liturally days away from completing this set of builds
2022-12-07T20:53:15 < zyp> first time I suggested using something other than f103, I think you were still designing the hardware
2022-12-07T20:54:43 < zyp> anyway, 0x1f000 into the flash is 124k, i.e. reserving the last 4k for EEPROM emulation
2022-12-07T20:55:37 < zyp> I suggest reducing the flash size in the linker script from 128 to 124 so that the linker stays away from that area
2022-12-07T20:56:11 < zyp> that way it'd refuse to link rather than produce a firmware that silently trashes your config when you load it
2022-12-07T20:57:18 < zyp> IIRC the erase granularity on f1 is fairly fine, so you might be able to halve the EEPROM emulation area to 2k or something
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2022-12-07T21:02:10 < Mangy_Dog> hmm i wonder where the linker script is in this setup
2022-12-07T21:03:55 < Mangy_Dog> also yeah quite possibly while i was designing this version... Though i wanted to keep it close to the old version as I secured a bunch of chips...
2022-12-07T21:04:02 < Mangy_Dog> Though yes.... in the future i probebly will move on
2022-12-07T21:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> im already wanting to move away from sloeber and the roger clark core and start trying locm3
2022-12-07T21:07:20 < zyp> I figure that unless you're making something in the hundreds or more, it doesn't make sense to spend too much time picking the cheapest mcu you can get away with
2022-12-07T21:07:37 < zyp> better to pick something slightly overkill that'll do everything you need with ease
2022-12-07T21:08:33 < Mangy_Dog> well in this run ive made 12
2022-12-07T21:08:39 < Mangy_Dog> and might make 5 move a little down the line
2022-12-07T21:08:59 < Mangy_Dog> at the moment its mostly the same old probgram but with some power managment stuff
2022-12-07T21:09:07 < Mangy_Dog> im surpised the power manager has taken so much more space
2022-12-07T21:09:29 < Mangy_Dog> one other thing i could do is run through all my code and make sure ive commented out all the debug stuff
2022-12-07T21:09:43 < Mangy_Dog> Though i REALLY should have put in a compile time #if set of thigns for that
2022-12-07T21:09:48 < zyp> so if you spent $5 more on the mcu, it'd still be less than $100 total :)
2022-12-07T21:10:09 < Mangy_Dog> i think i spent about £5 per mcu :/
2022-12-07T21:10:14 < Mangy_Dog> or was it £4
2022-12-07T21:10:16 < Mangy_Dog> still
2022-12-07T21:10:18 < Mangy_Dog> not cheap
2022-12-07T21:10:22 < Mangy_Dog> far higher than im used to
2022-12-07T21:10:26 < Mangy_Dog> for this chip
2022-12-07T21:10:37 < specing> you paid that much for f103?
2022-12-07T21:10:42 < Mangy_Dog> possible
2022-12-07T21:10:44 < specing> mate you got ripped off
2022-12-07T21:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> i cant really remember
2022-12-07T21:10:50 < Mangy_Dog> it 3was back in january
2022-12-07T21:11:07 < Mangy_Dog> and yes i know i was
2022-12-07T21:11:11 < Mangy_Dog> but chip shortage....
2022-12-07T21:11:12 < zyp> specing, well, duh, everybody has been getting ripped off for the past year or two
2022-12-07T21:11:48 < benishor> I love this chick https://www.youtube.com/shorts/s_6V2lTfYPo
2022-12-07T21:11:55 < specing> I think I paid $2 per f103 board
2022-12-07T21:12:00 < Mangy_Dog> ok yeah between 3 and 4 quid per chip
2022-12-07T21:12:06 < specing> got the smaller version tho c6t6
2022-12-07T21:12:22 < Mangy_Dog> these were CBs and C8s
2022-12-07T21:13:13 < benishor> what are your current favorite chips?
2022-12-07T21:13:30 < benishor> considering availability, features and all
2022-12-07T21:13:33 < zyp> g0b1
2022-12-07T21:14:09 < zyp> although I haven't actually used it yet :)
2022-12-07T21:14:13 < benishor> I suppose that one doesn't do swo tracing, no?
2022-12-07T21:14:31 < zyp> I've got a board here I did two months ago with a g0b1, but I haven't had time to test it yet
2022-12-07T21:14:40 < zyp> and I've got another about to be assembled at jlcpcb
2022-12-07T21:15:20 < benishor> uuu
2022-12-07T21:15:22 < benishor> it's got usb
2022-12-07T21:15:25 < zyp> but on paper it's the perfect little chip for small «USB to whatever» projects
2022-12-07T21:15:33 < benishor> and a nice feature set
2022-12-07T21:15:33 < Mangy_Dog> well i got the boards.txt file from rogerclarks core.... has the size limits but i think its purly the upload limiter, rather than trying to keep the compiler using up less sapce
2022-12-07T21:15:34 < Mangy_Dog> space
2022-12-07T21:15:47 < benishor> FDCAN, wow
2022-12-07T21:16:10 < zyp> yeah, one of the things on my TODO list is a USB to FDCAN adapter
2022-12-07T21:16:54 < benishor> 64MHz clocked though
2022-12-07T21:19:06 < zyp> before g0b1, I were using l052 as my goto «USB to whatever» part
2022-12-07T21:20:04 < zyp> but the low power features of the l series aren't really interesting for that stuff, so it's more limiting than useful
2022-12-07T21:20:55 < zyp> f042 could have worked, but is unsuitable if you wanna put a custom bootloaer on it
2022-12-07T21:21:05 < zyp> and I simply refuse to use f1
2022-12-07T21:24:19 < zyp> and you're correct, g0 is cortex-m0+ which doesn't do SWO
2022-12-07T21:30:06 < zyp> for larger stuff I'm not sure I've got a favorite, g4 have some nice mid-range parts
2022-12-07T21:30:15 < zyp> but no ethernet
2022-12-07T21:31:37 < zyp> good old f4 is still decent if you don't need modern stuff like FDCAN and f7 mostly looks like an f4 with more fast
2022-12-07T21:32:30 < zyp> and then there's a h7 which got a whole range of different capabilities
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2022-12-07T21:33:38 < catphish_> are there any common multipin connectors that are easy to unplug, like a usb plug but more generic
2022-12-07T21:34:14 < zyp> you need to elaborate a bit more
2022-12-07T21:34:19 < zyp> what's it for?
2022-12-07T21:35:32 < catphish_> well, i'm thinking of building a device for children, with a controller box, then accessories that can be plugged into it, think leg mindstorms
2022-12-07T21:36:00 < catphish_> so i want a connector that is rugged, but unplugs easily, so it can take plenty of abuse, and not damage the cable if it's yanked out
2022-12-07T21:36:26 < catphish_> maybe 4 pins, maybe more
2022-12-07T21:37:25 < zyp> newer mindstorms are using some kind of RJ, aren't they?
2022-12-07T21:37:45 < zyp> those are of course locking, so not what you're asking for
2022-12-07T21:37:47 < catphish_> you're right, looks like RJ11
2022-12-07T21:38:29 < zyp> but still, RJ45 connectors are large enough that they don't get levered off the board easily, and network cables are available cheap off the shelf
2022-12-07T21:38:41 < zyp> so I'd argue it's worth a consideration
2022-12-07T21:38:48 < catphish_> yeah those are locking, they could be a reasonable option if combined with unbreakable locking tabs
2022-12-07T21:39:06 < catphish_> (ie tabs that don't snap off like normal RJ45
2022-12-07T21:39:18 < zyp> yeah, that's the disadvantage
2022-12-07T21:39:48 < zyp> still, it's worth considering cables that are cheap to replace vs cables that are hard to damage
2022-12-07T21:40:20 < catphish_> cables that are cheap to replace combined with sockets that are hard to damage
2022-12-07T21:40:24 < catphish_> would be ideal
2022-12-07T21:40:39 < zyp> RJ45 sounds like a good option then
2022-12-07T21:40:56 < zyp> I've encountered plenty of snapped tabs on plugs, but very few damaged sockets
2022-12-07T21:41:05 < catphish_> i'm inclined to agree
2022-12-07T21:43:26 < zyp> what sort of signals are you gonna run? power and comms or e.g. stuff like direct motor control where the cable sits between the motor itself and a controller with a driver?
2022-12-07T21:45:36 < catphish_> i'm thinking power + signal, so a motor would have its own driver, and the connector would carry V+ V- and PWM
2022-12-07T21:46:00 < zyp> like RC servos? :)
2022-12-07T21:46:06 < catphish_> yes, exactly
2022-12-07T21:46:31 < zyp> another options are TRS or TRRS connectors
2022-12-07T21:47:02 < zyp> but those might be too easy to short
2022-12-07T21:47:12 < catphish_> i'd probably want to combine power, PWM output, and also an input, so you could plug an output device like a motor, or an input device like a switch into the same socket
2022-12-07T21:47:18 < catphish_> TRRS is an option
2022-12-07T21:47:39 < catphish_> but yes, would need to think about current limiting because they're easly shorted
2022-12-07T21:48:12 < zyp> have you considered running actual USB?
2022-12-07T21:48:45 < zyp> just put a small MCU on each device
2022-12-07T21:53:35 < qyx> catphish_: dsub
2022-12-07T21:54:30 < qyx> the only one, rugged, proven, available, cheap, shielded
2022-12-07T21:55:20 < catphish_> zyp: that seems mildly insane :)
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--- Day changed to joulu 08 2022
2022-12-08T00:19:41 < catphish_> esp32 is confusing, there's so many modules, and even more boards
2022-12-08T00:20:11 < zyp> what part of it is confusing?
2022-12-08T00:20:19 < catphish_> i guess that's nothing compared to stm32 options :)
2022-12-08T00:21:06 < zyp> there's a bunch of options for the chip itself, and then the modules also includes flash, so you get a matrix of esp32 and flash combinations
2022-12-08T00:21:17 < catphish_> zyp: only that i haven't looked at it before, i assumed stm32 was a single option, but in fact it seems there's a choice of modules, both current and historical, i don't know what to choose, or rather, what criteria i would even use to choose
2022-12-08T00:22:51 < zyp> I don't have a full overview of what exists, but one possible criteria is the cpu choice
2022-12-08T00:23:08 < catphish_> then there's dev boards, even putting aside the many chinese boards, there's a ton of official ones, which kinda surprised me, and again i'm unsure what criteria to use to choose one
2022-12-08T00:23:33 < zyp> most of them are xtensa based, but there's also some that are risc-v based
2022-12-08T00:24:04 < catphish_> i always assumed esp32 == esp32
2022-12-08T00:24:19 < catphish_> but it turns out it's actually a range, not a single part
2022-12-08T00:24:31 < zyp> I figure it doesn't matter much if you don't care about lowlevel details and just use the provided IDE
2022-12-08T00:24:57 < catphish_> my only requirements are basically wifi, bluetooth, and "some gpio"
2022-12-08T00:25:10 < catphish_> which covers almost all of them
2022-12-08T00:25:23 < zyp> well, yeah
2022-12-08T00:26:15 < zyp> what do you normally do when presented with multiple options that all looks good enough?
2022-12-08T00:26:29 < zyp> answer tends to be pick the cheapest :)
2022-12-08T00:26:53 < zyp> or if price doesn't matter, pick the one with the most resources available (biggest flash or whatever)
2022-12-08T00:27:18 < catphish_> i agree entirely, but that brings me to part 2, choosing a dev board
2022-12-08T00:28:05 < catphish_> in that case, the choice is basically the cheapest that has a module that's still in production
2022-12-08T00:28:50 < catphish_> for example, ebay has plenty of ESP32 WROOM-32 dev boards, but ESP32 WROOM-32 is NRND
2022-12-08T00:29:32 < catphish_> https://www.espressif.com/en/products/devkits/esp32-devkitc
2022-12-08T00:29:37 < catphish_> ^ this is probably the correct answer
2022-12-08T00:30:21 < catphish_> ESP32-DevKitC-32E
2022-12-08T00:32:10 < catphish_> as soon as i stopped looking at ebay and clone junk, it's much simpler
2022-12-08T00:32:30 < catphish_> i'm not used to official dev kits being affordable, i guess esp32 took a leaf out of stm32's book :)
2022-12-08T00:32:37 < catphish_> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Espressif-Systems/ESP32-DevKitC-32E?qs=GedFDFLaBXFpgD0kAZWDrQ%3D%3D
2022-12-08T00:35:06 < rajkosto> huh they even have an aliexpress store
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2022-12-08T00:36:43 < catphish_> so they do :) https://www.aliexpress.com/store/912517182
2022-12-08T00:37:55 < catphish_> though there's no products in it, only a notice saying they're closed until april 2022
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2022-12-08T01:30:21 < bitmask> hah, first shot at a tessellation shader but at least its rendering. shouldnt be too hard to fix it https://i.imgur.com/xxZipfc.png
2022-12-08T02:05:09 < fenugrec> "stm32C0x : coming soon" ... what is C0
2022-12-08T02:06:09 < fenugrec> -> another small basic mcu; M0+, 6k ram 32k flash, 48MHz, basic periphs
2022-12-08T02:18:22 < zyp> going by https://www.wpgdadatong.com/blog/detail/70218 it looks like a slimmed down/cost optimized g0
2022-12-08T02:19:10 < fenugrec> "10-year longevity program" - means they guarantee it will be marked as Backordered for the next 10 years ?
2022-12-08T02:19:18 < zyp> :)
2022-12-08T02:19:43 < fenugrec> "renewed commitment every year" - means >52weeks leadtime, updated yearly. Perfect 
2022-12-08T02:23:07 < zyp> I've got some stuff on my TODO list that'd use a g030 as pretty much an i2c gpio expander
2022-12-08T02:23:29 < fenugrec> cost-effective vs pc8574 and other trashy gpio extenders ?
2022-12-08T02:23:44 < fenugrec> *pcf8574
2022-12-08T02:24:31 < zyp> well, you can compare https://jlcpcb.com/partdetail/Hgsemi-PCF8574TTR/C2987288 to https://jlcpcb.com/partdetail/Stmicroelectronics-STM32G030F6P6TR/C529330
2022-12-08T02:25:44 < fenugrec> heh, you need to use a lot to make up the few pennies difference. Although IIRC pcf8574 is super slow, only 8 IO... room for improvement
2022-12-08T02:25:49 < zyp> so partly that, and partly that it gives me enough flexibility to add reset-defaults and possibly some simple decoding logic between the register I write and the actual pins
2022-12-08T02:29:29 < zyp> I'm planning to use it to control a hierarchy of muxes, with i2c itself also being muxed
2022-12-08T02:30:18 < zyp> i.e. first do one write to select a mux option on the first level, then do another write to another address to select an option on the next level
2022-12-08T02:30:36 < zyp> and I want a global reset to deselect everything :)
2022-12-08T02:30:44 < fenugrec> what are you GPIOing to justify all this
2022-12-08T02:31:11 < machinehum>  1N4148 diodes can be used here because the reverse voltage across any of the diodes can never exceed around 4V or so.
2022-12-08T02:31:14 < machinehum> https://sound-au.com/project157.htm
2022-12-08T02:31:16 < machinehum> WHY?
2022-12-08T02:31:52 < zyp> I'm gonna put 128 microcontrollers in a box and mux their IO so I can select any one of them to hook up to
2022-12-08T02:32:53 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/bqrQu1N
2022-12-08T02:33:51 < fenugrec> machinehum, fullbridge and the opto's Vf is around 2-3V
2022-12-08T02:34:05 < fenugrec> so V_f + 2x V_f of a Si diode... around 4v ?
2022-12-08T02:35:09 < zyp> I'm currently waiting for jlc to make this thing for me: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/998371828609327224/1046230746119024690/image.png
2022-12-08T02:35:54 < zyp> it's a dumb ugly design for testing how well TMUX1308 works in practice
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2022-12-08T02:36:42 < kaki> late hello
2022-12-08T02:37:29 < fenugrec> so, massive I2C chain controls a ton of tmux1308s
2022-12-08T02:37:41 < zyp> yep
2022-12-08T02:37:53 < fenugrec> throw fpga at it
2022-12-08T02:38:13 < machinehum> Oh, right, but the only reason that rectifier is okay is because of R7/R8
2022-12-08T02:38:14 < fenugrec> until you have no free time, then go back to initial idea
2022-12-08T02:38:46 < machinehum> Or else the other diode would execeed their reverse breakdown
2022-12-08T02:39:34 < fenugrec> maybe it would work with either R7/R8 but power + voltage rating may be an issue
2022-12-08T02:39:36 < zyp> I'm thinking microcontrollers on m.2-style module cards (cheap and quick to make for 128 different mircocontrollers), carrier cards with 8 m.2 sockets and 1:8 muxes, and a backplane with 16 sockets for carrier cards
2022-12-08T02:40:25 < zyp> should be a reasonably simple design, just a matter of getting a ton of signals reasonably laid out and length matched
2022-12-08T02:41:17 < fenugrec> and what are you multiprocessing with all that ?
2022-12-08T02:41:36 < zyp> the goal is to be able to easily test the orbtrace against a lot of different microcontrollers
2022-12-08T02:41:41 < fenugrec> aaaah
2022-12-08T02:41:41 < machinehum> Yeah
2022-12-08T02:43:44 < zyp> but while I'm at it, it'll also let me test other stuff like laks on a lot of different microcontrollers :)
2022-12-08T02:46:32 < zyp> the question is just whether I can chain two-three muxes per signal like that without it ruining the signals too much
2022-12-08T02:46:56 < zyp> which is why I made the quick and dirty board to test that
2022-12-08T02:48:03 < fenugrec> 15-30ns Tpd per mux, probably OK until you start pushing frequencies eh
2022-12-08T02:50:02 < zyp> for unidirectional signals that shouldn't matter much, but I'm a bit worried about swd turnaround
2022-12-08T02:50:40 < fenugrec> since you can afford board space, probably driving 2 undirectional tristate buffers would be faster ? 74LVC244 is super fast, < 7ns
2022-12-08T02:50:40 < zyp> 4ns typical at 5V supply
2022-12-08T02:51:08 < fenugrec> oh I was in the -40 to 125C column
2022-12-08T02:51:33 < fenugrec> but you're probably not going to do SWD on 5V I'm guessing : )
2022-12-08T02:51:53 < zyp> nope, but that doesn't mean I can't supply the muxes at 5V
2022-12-08T02:52:28 < fenugrec> ... SWD pins are 5V-tolerant ? I don't follow
2022-12-08T02:52:39 < zyp> they're analog muxes, not digital buffers
2022-12-08T02:52:43 < fenugrec> o
2022-12-08T02:53:49 < zyp> rated for 50mA continous, so I can even run Vref through them :)
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2022-12-08T03:19:06 < kaki> englishman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9o_Major#First_Distinguished_Conduct_Medal when Canada goes to war
2022-12-08T03:21:54 < kaki> 2 vs 1500
2022-12-08T03:25:14 < englishman> a classic tale
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2022-12-08T03:27:04 < kaki> I want to believe it
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2022-12-08T04:39:44 < fenugrec> wtf, cubeide is still clobber user additions in main.c ? I thought those days were past
2022-12-08T04:42:15 < rustyaxe> i gave up on cubeide shortly after i me t it
2022-12-08T04:43:01 < rustyaxe> met
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2022-12-08T09:28:50 < benishor> fenugrec: didn't happen to me
2022-12-08T09:28:55 < benishor> can you reproduce it?
2022-12-08T09:29:21 < benishor> it did happen to me that I misread the markers and put the user code outside the proper markers
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2022-12-08T13:09:52 < karlp> huh, I seem to have someone killed a dev board.
2022-12-08T13:10:08 < karlp> fucks me how. I haven't static killed anything since uni.
2022-12-08T13:11:13 < Xogium> karlp: I'm a pro at doing that
2022-12-08T13:11:45 < Xogium> I had to resign myself to wearing esd wrist strap and have a mat, otherwise I keep killing things
2022-12-08T13:12:04 < Xogium> I made a board more or less die because bootloader isn't able to init the ram anymore
2022-12-08T13:14:36 < karlp> well, I'm still not entirely convinced it's dead.
2022-12-08T13:15:25 < karlp> right, it's working agian, needed to get into some weird jlink secure erase shit first.
2022-12-08T13:15:51 < josuah> UICR APPROTECT :(
2022-12-08T13:16:20 < josuah> that works with OpenOCD and st-link
2022-12-08T13:16:20 < karlp> something it got into yesterday made complexity studio and jlink and openocd all just go "nope, can't read any dap info, no core detected?!"
2022-12-08T13:16:30 < josuah> I imagine the use-case is protecting the existing firmware?
2022-12-08T13:16:47 < karlp> well, not sure how it got set.
2022-12-08T13:16:55 < josuah> to avoid it to be dumped out of the chip, I assume for reverse engineering
2022-12-08T13:17:08 < josuah> not sure, but I think the bootloader may set it
2022-12-08T13:18:09 < josuah> I did not have it bothering me until I let the chip reboot on its own after programming, rather than stopping before the bootloader starts
2022-12-08T13:19:47 < josuah> is that a Nordic chip?
2022-12-08T13:21:10 < karlp> nah, silabs.
2022-12-08T13:21:20 < karlp> I think it happened after I upgraded the secure fw element
2022-12-08T13:21:22  * karlp shrugs
2022-12-08T13:21:25 < karlp> it's back in business.
2022-12-08T13:21:27 < karlp> fucking weird though
2022-12-08T13:37:55 < zyp> APPROTECT is a nordic thing
2022-12-08T13:38:16 < zyp> every chip vendor tends to invent their own
2022-12-08T13:38:42 < zyp> the nordic one seems reasonably well designed as far as I've seen
2022-12-08T13:42:27 < Steffanx-> I recall it is broken in the previous revisions of nrf52
2022-12-08T13:42:38 < Steffanx-> Which is still being sold and used in many modules.
2022-12-08T13:43:14 < Steffanx-> I recall as in. I'm sure of it 😋
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2022-12-08T13:44:29 < zyp> can have silicon bugs whether the design is good or bad
2022-12-08T13:44:46 < zyp> not like the STM32 ROP mechanism doesn't have them
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2022-12-08T15:50:39 < Steffanx-> Sure. But how wonderful it might be, it was still easily bypassed. 
2022-12-08T15:51:45 < Steffanx-> Or disabled or whatever you want to call it.
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2022-12-08T16:55:11 < fenugrec> question re M0 cores like F072 etc : at 48MHz, flash needs to be set with latency=1 wait state. Would that mean "performance" would be only slightly better than at 24MHz, latency=0 ? in both cases each fetch gets 32 bits so up to 2 opcodes... but the prefetch buffer only works when latency=1, so that might amplify the difference
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2022-12-08T17:10:43 < zyp> M0 doesn't have thumb-2 so almost all instructions are encoded in 16 bits
2022-12-08T17:11:23 < zyp> and it also only has a single memory bus, so instruction fetches gets interleaved with loads and stores
2022-12-08T17:11:27 < fenugrec> yes, I was thinking of say 'ldr Rn, [pc+###]' which would need an extra fetch anyway from a literal pool
2022-12-08T17:12:11 < zyp> true
2022-12-08T17:12:58 < fenugrec> happens that my code has a lot of those and that's probably destroying performance. Hard to say, I can't get my debugger to read a freerunning counter every step
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2022-12-08T17:27:51 < fenugrec> I wish gcc would be more clever about a struct and just keep the base address in a register (come on, there's 12. Pick one, gcc) and use [Rn+###] modes
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2022-12-08T17:39:33 < josuah> fenugrec: are you debugging assembly?
2022-12-08T17:39:52 < josuah> it felt like it was the purpose of that addressing mode somehow: base address + offset
2022-12-08T17:40:03 < fenugrec> sometimes
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2022-12-08T17:43:08 < fenugrec> yes, that's what it for, but gcc rarely uses it. Seems to be very thrifty about dedicating one reg for that kind of thing
2022-12-08T17:44:04 < fenugrec> makes me wonder to what extent is arm-gcc 'familiar' with M0 internals to optimize for pipeline stalling, prefetch, etc
2022-12-08T17:44:10 < zyp> are you sure that's not a thumb-1 limitation?
2022-12-08T17:44:20 < fenugrec> what do you mean ?
2022-12-08T17:44:27 < zyp> 16-bit instructions have less space to encode the offset literal
2022-12-08T17:45:13 < fenugrec> yes, true - just 5 bits for an offset, so up to 32 contiguous vars (either b/hw/w)
2022-12-08T17:45:26 < fenugrec> still very usable
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2022-12-08T17:47:39 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/6K1Eq84PG
2022-12-08T17:47:58 < zyp> change mcpu to cortex-m3 and see the difference
2022-12-08T17:49:09 < fenugrec> yes
2022-12-08T17:49:37 < fenugrec> p[32] is the 33-rd contiguous value P)
2022-12-08T17:57:31 < fenugrec> bleh, this is a deadend anyway. need to get a loop from ~ 220 clocks to < 50 clocks ideally... not worth the effort
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2022-12-08T19:46:22 < jpa-> hmm, ordered a sensepeek kit
2022-12-08T19:46:50 < jpa-> seems like i've begun to waste more and more money.. as if soldering small wires to hook up probes to wasn't good enough
2022-12-08T19:48:29 < fenugrec> but think of all the seconds/minutes you'll save !
2022-12-08T19:49:01 < jpa-> i'm mostly thinking about all the taxes i'll save by ordering now rather than some year when i might make less income
2022-12-08T19:50:34 < aandrew> I love the sensepeek magnetic spring loaded clamps. my work surface is painted 4mm steel so it works very well
2022-12-08T19:51:07 < aandrew> I have the gooseneck things too but haven't really used 'em
2022-12-08T19:52:22 < jpa-> are the clamps good for soldering?
2022-12-08T19:52:36 < aandrew> yep that's exactly what I use them for
2022-12-08T19:53:06 < aandrew> I have 8 of them; four more or less live on the bench and the ohter four are in one of my travel boxes along with my other "on the road" lab equipment
2022-12-08T19:55:39 < jpa-> sounds good, i have a small vise with teflon holders but it has limits on PCB size
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2022-12-08T19:59:41 < aandrew> I have something like that too that I don't get much use with because I never need to work on a board on an angle, at least not for soldering
2022-12-08T19:59:52 < aandrew> my kids stole my old panavise which is fine with me
2022-12-08T20:00:27 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/JF-XUAN-Adjustable-360%C2%B0Rotate-Soldering-Assembly/dp/B08KDXHNV1 is the one I have that I rarely rarely use
2022-12-08T20:00:43 < aandrew> I get good use out of this for one specific project: https://www.amazon.ca/axGear-Soldering-Platform-Universal-Adjustable/dp/B07S2DM73D
2022-12-08T20:01:22 < aandrew> it just holds the PCB still because there's two fucking tag-connect bullshits on it and there are some fine/fragile wires so this little PCB holder is heavy enough that it helps keep the board stable despite all the wires
2022-12-08T20:01:52 < BrainDamage> the thing that annoys me the most of many pcb clamps is the height
2022-12-08T20:02:08 < BrainDamage> I want to usually keep the board as flush to the table as possible
2022-12-08T20:02:20 < aandrew> yeah. the pcbite ones are a decent working height and it's a fixed/known quantity so my inspection microscope doesn't have to move around too much :-)
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2022-12-08T20:39:55 < zyp> jpa-, the sensepeek clamps are way more convenient than the stickvise
2022-12-08T20:40:23 < zyp> and I also use the clamps way more than the probes, although the probes are great too
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2022-12-08T21:05:57 < Laurence_b> This is the only category of posts on this entire site that is genuinely toxic and perpetuated by people with legitimate mental illness and the highest probability of parasitizing the planet. Every single person who finds a shred of happiness by consuming this content should seek mental healthcare immediately or risk creating a well of pollution
2022-12-08T21:05:58 < Laurence_b> within consciousness that will forever bring shame to their family, their community, their interests and their genetic code. For this reason, this category of content will never flourish on this, or any, forum - and the perpetuators of such crimes will all eventually be exterminated from society.
2022-12-08T21:08:55 < zyp> Laurence_b, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uxA7B.png
2022-12-08T21:09:14 < Laurence_b> top keeekkkkk
2022-12-08T21:15:37 < specing> zyp: hahah
2022-12-08T21:29:22 < qyx> lol
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2022-12-08T22:25:17 < machinehum> Anyone know a polarisation key for 2.0mm header
2022-12-08T22:25:23 < machinehum> 2.54mm all over the place
2022-12-08T22:25:32 < machinehum> But I can't fine one for a 2mm header
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2022-12-08T22:48:45 < karlp> stop using 2mm? use 1.27 instead?
2022-12-08T22:49:12 < karlp> fuck yes, that's going straight to the poolroom zyp!
2022-12-08T22:54:45 < benishor> machinehum: I think there are those ... how do they call it
2022-12-08T22:54:46 < benishor> moment
2022-12-08T22:54:59 < PaulFertser> That chatgpt is almost scarily smart.
2022-12-08T22:56:20 < benishor> JST PH 2.0mm connector
2022-12-08T22:56:21 < benishor> these
2022-12-08T22:56:33 < benishor> PaulFertser: yeah, I just told it to write a love letter to my wife
2022-12-08T22:56:43 < benishor> giving 4 hints
2022-12-08T22:56:46 < benishor> and my wife was in awe
2022-12-08T22:57:16 < benishor> machinehum: stuff like this https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-JST-PHR-Connector-Female-Header/dp/B0731MZCGF
2022-12-08T22:57:40 < benishor> aliexpress is full of them too
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2022-12-08T23:36:09 < Laurence_b> reeee
2022-12-08T23:36:19 < Laurence_b> muh teensy is still not working correctly
2022-12-08T23:36:40 < Laurence_b> sleep with rtc alarm only works once, then it goes it programming mode
2022-12-08T23:45:18 < Laurence_b> holy shit wuuttttt
2022-12-08T23:45:20 < Laurence_b> https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/58484-issue-to-reporogram-T4-0/page2
2022-12-08T23:45:25 < Laurence_b> cargo cult brogramming
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2022-12-08T23:47:51 < fenugrec> can chatgpt optimize my code to be 5x faster
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2022-12-08T23:54:50 < machinehum> karlp: I can't use 1.27
2022-12-08T23:55:20 < machinehum> benishor: I need plugs
2022-12-08T23:56:52 < zyp> fenugrec, yep: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/E1tp6.png
2022-12-08T23:57:33 < zyp> it's misunderstanding the purpose of the volatile keyword though :)
2022-12-08T23:58:07 < fenugrec> hahah
--- Day changed pe joulu 09 2022
2022-12-09T00:02:02 < machinehum> Answer: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/harwin-inc/M22-0340000/3728188
2022-12-09T00:04:59 < Laurence_b> maybe chatgpt can fix teensy sleep modes
2022-12-09T00:07:13 < zyp> Laurence_b, here you go: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XF6fK.png
2022-12-09T00:07:59 < Laurence_b> lol brilliant it can use google
2022-12-09T00:08:14 < Laurence_b> slight issue... thats for atmega based arduino
2022-12-09T00:10:15 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/m9mUM.png
2022-12-09T00:15:52 < qyx> :D
2022-12-09T00:35:01 < Laurence_b> wew thats actually along the right lines
2022-12-09T00:41:03 < PaulFertser> Is it really a header-only library?
2022-12-09T01:03:28 < invzim> goddamnit, received 100 assembled boards today, and so far 1 in 5 has shaky/failed tact buttons
2022-12-09T01:04:02 < invzim> I've used 	
2022-12-09T01:04:22 < invzim> E-Switch many times before, could the factory have messed up some wash/rinse stuff?
2022-12-09T01:14:41 < qyx> I generally solder any swiches after washing only
2022-12-09T01:17:29 < invzim> SMD switches, so it they for sure have been washed
2022-12-09T01:19:52 < invzim> oh well, just power through the QA I guess and look at the failed ones later
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2022-12-09T01:34:11 < bitmask> wtf
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2022-12-09T01:35:27 < Laurence_b> PaulFertser: no
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2022-12-09T01:41:59 < Laurence_b> hmm my code looks like the example code...
2022-12-09T01:42:17 < Laurence_b> only I have rtc interrupt enabled due to copypasta
2022-12-09T01:42:23 < Laurence_b> maybe that is triggering
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2022-12-09T01:57:48 < Mangy_Dog> Can anyone think of a reason why PB5 on an f103 wont do PWM?
2022-12-09T02:06:02  * catphish_ consults datasheet
2022-12-09T02:07:11 < Mangy_Dog> i mean it should
2022-12-09T02:07:16 < Mangy_Dog> it should be tied to timer 3 channel 2
2022-12-09T02:07:18 < catphish_> datasheet says it's TIM3_CH2 when remapped
2022-12-09T02:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> which I have  setup opn the boards.cpp file for rogerclarks coe
2022-12-09T02:07:36 < Mangy_Dog> core
2022-12-09T02:07:39 < catphish_> so yeah, if it doesn't work, you didn't remap it, or didn't configure the timer correctly
2022-12-09T02:07:47 < Mangy_Dog> but it just doesnt run
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2022-12-09T03:15:01 < qyx> did you remap the pin as catphish_ says?
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2022-12-09T04:33:48 < machinehum> anyone have tips for making ltspice converge? https://i.imgur.com/prI354S.png
2022-12-09T04:37:44 < machinehum> https://ltwiki.org/index.php?title=Convergence_problems%3F
2022-12-09T04:37:46 < machinehum> That worked
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2022-12-09T08:05:36 < benishor> boo
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2022-12-09T11:35:12 < karlp> machinehum: oh, I thought you meant like keyed shroud, not plugs.
2022-12-09T12:13:21 < karlp> lol, lilygo is using the CC pins for a uart: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004347564200.html
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2022-12-09T12:20:12 < karlp> this is an interesting product I didn't consider exsting, but it's kinda neat.
2022-12-09T12:20:14 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002272941038.html
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2022-12-09T15:35:42 < karlp> if anyone remembers me moaning in the past about bluetooth-sig publishing documents that that were a single table pdf, they're now moving back again: https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/assigned-numbers/
2022-12-09T15:35:53 < karlp> it's now almost all in one nice rational document
2022-12-09T15:35:57 < karlp> much muhc much easier to use :)
2022-12-09T15:36:05 < zyp> nice
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2022-12-09T17:02:56 < fenugrec> whaaat, out of curiosity I compiled my lousy code for pic24, simulated it, and it runs in ~40% less cycles per loop than on M0
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2022-12-09T17:39:57 < karlp> who uses m0 anyway?
2022-12-09T17:40:14 < karlp> lol, I'm trying some things using silabs BGAPI to avoid some dbus issues,
2022-12-09T17:40:39 < karlp> the btyes you need to feed to it for uuid comparisons are _reverse_ to all normal representations of uuids.
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2022-12-09T17:47:20 < fenugrec> don't have M3 hardware to test on, and never took time to figure out how to simulate ARM stuff
2022-12-09T17:47:50 < zyp> renode is decent
2022-12-09T17:48:20 < zyp> although I'm not sure it's cycle accurate
2022-12-09T17:48:20 < fenugrec> sounds familiar
2022-12-09T17:49:06 < fenugrec> isn't it "impossible" to make cycle-accurate ARM sims because the low-level ISA details are secret or some BS? 
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2022-12-09T18:46:03 < jpa-> fenugrec: at least the flash access latencies are a bit unpredictable, because details of the prefetch functionality are a bit sparse
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2022-12-09T19:23:53 < machinehum> karlp: Yeah there's a pin removed on the male header
2022-12-09T19:24:03 < machinehum> So plug that guy up on the female lol
2022-12-09T19:24:05 < machinehum> https://connectorbook.com/identification.html?m=NNK&n=classes
2022-12-09T19:24:07 < machinehum> That's site is nice
2022-12-09T19:24:10 < machinehum> that
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--- Day changed la joulu 10 2022
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2022-12-10T04:15:21 < fenugrec> nice. renode hits an exception on the absolute first thing I try
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2022-12-10T19:47:32 < benishor> is there any structure to the .bin format?
2022-12-10T19:48:20 < benishor> I asked on the daisy seed forums what exactly is their bootloader doing
2022-12-10T19:48:39 < benishor> and they answered `The storage format is very simple – it’s just the raw program binary, stored at address 0x90040000. The QSPI address space starts at 0x90000000, so there’s just a bit of space at the beginning in case you want to store anything there.`
2022-12-10T19:49:06 < benishor> well yeah, it sounds easy, but how does the program know what's the length of the binary?
2022-12-10T19:49:12 < benishor> because it relocates it to sram
2022-12-10T19:55:37 < fenugrec> "the" .bin format ?
2022-12-10T19:55:59 < fenugrec> that is the most unstructured format ever, heh
2022-12-10T19:56:19 < benishor> so what does it actually contain?
2022-12-10T19:56:42 < benishor> I find it hard to believe it's just a simple contiguous dump of binary data
2022-12-10T19:56:58 < benishor> it must at least have some sections for sparse data
2022-12-10T19:57:07 < fenugrec> by definition it is, but some applications may interpret it differently
2022-12-10T19:57:44 < fenugrec> if they encode sparse data in a .bin, I'd argue it's no longer a .bin
2022-12-10T19:58:11 < fenugrec> .hex / .srec  will let you do that in a "standardized" way
2022-12-10T19:59:13 < benishor> so in the above example, how do they know how much to relocate from qspi to sram?
2022-12-10T19:59:23 < benishor> do they simply copy the amount of sram and that's that?
2022-12-10T19:59:35 < benishor> regardless of the size of the binary?
2022-12-10T19:59:39 < fenugrec> probably ? it's their own convention, as long as they stick to it and it's explained, it'll work
2022-12-10T20:00:43 < benishor> they have this bootloader stored in the single segment flash
2022-12-10T20:00:56 < benishor> which uses dfu to copy the app to qspi
2022-12-10T20:01:13 < benishor> and then at startup relocates it to sram and jumps there for execution
2022-12-10T20:01:28 < benishor> how would you guys handle this scenario?
2022-12-10T20:02:30 < fenugrec> what do you mean
2022-12-10T20:04:21 < Steffanx-> Do they actually run from RAM benishor?
2022-12-10T20:08:56 < benishor> Steffanx-: yes
2022-12-10T20:09:22 < benishor> fenugrec: I mean writing a suitable bootloader for this
2022-12-10T20:10:14 < fenugrec> well you'd expect a .bin file containing only the bytes ending up in RAM at a certain fixed address, so... copy raw to QSPI anywhere you want during reflash, and at boot copy out of QSPI to RAM ?
2022-12-10T20:10:43 < fenugrec> hopefully you're not loading an .elf where you need to do the relocations yourself
2022-12-10T21:09:12 < benishor> fenugrec: I would have expected them to at least have the filesize stored but apparently they don't
2022-12-10T21:09:39 < benishor> hence it would imply they simply blindly copy the whole amount worth of sram from qspi to sram at startup
2022-12-10T21:10:07 < benishor> but how can you tell if you have a stored program in qspi or not?
2022-12-10T21:10:42 < benishor> a checksum/magic word would have to be stored somewhere
2022-12-10T21:11:35 < benishor> and you can't store that at the end of the binary if you don't know its size. so you either store it at a fixed address or right at the start of the binary
2022-12-10T21:12:16 < fenugrec> 1- receive .bin file, its size determines "payload size"  2- keep a few bytes at the end of QSPI for metadata, store CRC and payload size  3- memcpy(sram, qspi, payload_size)
2022-12-10T21:12:35 < benishor> yeah, so 2)
2022-12-10T21:12:51 < fenugrec> is what I would do, maybe. not sure why you need to implement though, as it seems to exist alraedy
2022-12-10T21:13:31 < fenugrec> wait, metadata could be at the beginning of QSPI too. You can store the payload anywhere in it if it's just raw bytes you're nevr executing in-place.
2022-12-10T21:13:31 < benishor> they have dfu implemented only while running their own bootloader
2022-12-10T21:13:46 < benishor> I wanted to be able to flash my new version at runtime
2022-12-10T21:14:00 < benishor> so I asked details about what their bootloader really does
2022-12-10T21:14:09 < benishor> since it is not opensource
2022-12-10T21:14:28 < fenugrec> just disassemble it
2022-12-10T21:15:06 < benishor> I don't know how to disassemble a .bin
2022-12-10T21:17:59 < Steffanx-> or flash your binary, read out qspi.
2022-12-10T21:18:45 < Steffanx-> and check if there is any meta data
2022-12-10T21:19:20 < benishor> yeah, that would be one thing, except qspi is 64Mbit
2022-12-10T21:19:31 < benishor> I was trying to avoid that, but I might just do it
2022-12-10T21:26:51 < qyx> I am using a filesystem in the NOR flash, spiffs
2022-12-10T21:27:00 < qyx> there is a bootloader config file
2022-12-10T21:27:42 < qyx> if the config contains a flashing request, it tries to copy that whole file to internal flash
2022-12-10T21:28:06 < qyx> whether flash or sram, doesn't matter
2022-12-10T21:28:38 < benishor> and how does the booting go?
2022-12-10T21:28:39 < qyx> the file (*.fw) contains firmware in a TLV format (tag-length-value)
2022-12-10T21:29:31 < qyx> it checks fw hash, fw signature, if ok, relocates the vector table and jumps
2022-12-10T21:30:05 < qyx> in the TLV, one tag denotes the actual firmware binary data
2022-12-10T21:30:10 < benishor> so you just jump in-place at the stored version
2022-12-10T21:30:22 < benishor> do you allow more versions stored?
2022-12-10T21:30:24 < qyx> there is a catch
2022-12-10T21:30:46 < qyx> no, I implemented versioning in a different way
2022-12-10T21:30:57 < qyx> there are multiple versions in the NOR flash
2022-12-10T21:31:15 < benishor> is there a directory or do you iterate in a linear fashion?
2022-12-10T21:31:19 < qyx> they are marked as "working", "lastknown working" etc.
2022-12-10T21:31:21 < benishor> skipping size?
2022-12-10T21:31:41 < qyx> there is a spiffs filesystem and they are in the root directory
2022-12-10T21:31:52 < qyx> also the bootloader determines the correct version
2022-12-10T21:32:00 < qyx> usih a semantic versioning match
2022-12-10T21:32:05 < qyx> the catch
2022-12-10T21:32:16 < qyx> you have to know the load address beforehand
2022-12-10T21:32:39 < qyx> otherwise the firmware would need to be position independent
2022-12-10T21:32:51 < benishor> that's ok, no?
2022-12-10T21:32:56 < benishor> you just link with the same address
2022-12-10T21:33:18 < qyx> yes and no, it constrains you a bit
2022-12-10T21:33:29 < benishor> so what do you do?
2022-12-10T21:33:39 < qyx> nothing, I am constrained
2022-12-10T21:34:08 < qyx> the PIC codeis a bit specific in that the .data and .bss are on a constant address
2022-12-10T21:34:13 < qyx> just the .text changes
2022-12-10T21:34:45 < benishor> so you have a different linker script for each version?
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2022-12-10T21:42:16 < qyx> no, the current running version is stored at the right address in MCU flash or sram
2022-12-10T21:42:52 < qyx> it doesn't matter where are they stored on the NOR flash
2022-12-10T21:43:55 < benishor> I see, thanks for sharing
2022-12-10T21:44:08 < qyx> but to answer the original question, yes, I would put a raw binary in the NOR flash
2022-12-10T21:44:28 < qyx> and copy eveeything to the SRAM
2022-12-10T21:44:59 < qyx> ending when the end of SRAM or QSPI is reached
2022-12-10T21:45:30 < qyx> QSPI reads damn fast, so the whole SRAM size would be trasferred in milliseconds
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2022-12-10T22:55:53 < Laurence_b> Hunter Biden has lived a hard life and has overcome a lot. Musk has faced no challenges and has simply stolen his way to the top
2022-12-10T22:59:29 < rustyaxe> lulz
2022-12-10T23:04:25 < Steffanx-> So how you feel now England lost with soccerball, Laurence_b ?
2022-12-10T23:12:36 < karlp> saw a car driving around downtown tonight honking and cheering with a moroccan flag out the window :)
2022-12-10T23:13:02 < karlp> fenugrec: doh, I had good experiences with renode, thought it was very neat.
2022-12-10T23:14:42 < Steffanx-> heh karlp . Here they tend to riot.
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2022-12-10T23:17:19 < fenugrec> karlp, I'm sure it's very neat, but it's immensely complex and it didn't deliver after a half-hour of messing around. couldn't get it to simulate timers, couldn't figure out how to get a cycle counter, gave up
2022-12-10T23:19:21 < karlp> totally understandable.
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2022-12-10T23:48:03 < Laurence_b> https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/71649-Teensy4-datalogger-problems?p=317095#post317095
2022-12-10T23:48:06 < Laurence_b> funtimes
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--- Day changed su joulu 11 2022
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2022-12-11T00:24:26 < Steffanx-> How much time did you save by using teensy so far Laurence_b ?
2022-12-11T00:26:21 < qyx> TIL base45, today I was reading about the EU covid pass thing
2022-12-11T00:27:29 < Laurence_b> Steffanx_: -1 weeks
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2022-12-11T19:05:10 < jadew> do you guys know of any nice robotics kits for kids?
2022-12-11T19:05:37 < jadew> something that looks cool and requires programming
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2022-12-11T19:50:08 < kaki> mindstorms
2022-12-11T19:50:48 < jadew> just got recommended that by someone else, I guess it really is a nice kit, eh?
2022-12-11T19:51:00 < jadew> unfortunately I can't find them in stock
2022-12-11T19:51:56 < jpa-> mindstorms is discontinued
2022-12-11T19:52:53 < jadew> ah, did they replace it with something else?
2022-12-11T19:53:14 < jpa-> no
2022-12-11T19:54:59 < jpa-> there is "lego powered up" but it is really limited, basically just sequencer
2022-12-11T19:55:14 < jadew> I would have imagined that the market would be filled by now with these type of toys
2022-12-11T19:55:49 < jpa-> it is, which is probably why lego discontinued their robotics line (too expensive compared to what it offered)
2022-12-11T19:56:23 < jpa-> it's just that there is a bazillion kits that come and go and no-one knows what is good
2022-12-11T20:00:17 < jadew> afk - dinner
2022-12-11T20:03:53 < Steffanx-> Isnt all lego too expensive....
2022-12-11T20:03:54 < Steffanx-> ?
2022-12-11T20:04:02 < kaki> yes
2022-12-11T20:04:29 < jpa-> yes, but it is easy to buy and is good
2022-12-11T20:11:27 < kaki> and last forever
2022-12-11T20:12:11 < kaki> until vacuumed with vacuum cleaner
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2022-12-11T21:06:30 < Steffanx-> ohno, in those cases i would open the vacuum cleaner bag.
2022-12-11T21:06:45 < Steffanx-> and get my valuable lego brick back
2022-12-11T21:07:04 < jadew> would love something non-lego tbh
2022-12-11T21:07:36 < jadew> maybe something targeted at engineers - but under $500
2022-12-11T21:09:25 < kaki> arduino and some servos
2022-12-11T21:09:56 < kaki> there is some robot kits for arduino and for raspi maybe too
2022-12-11T21:10:23 < kaki> never really paid attention but there is a lot of those
2022-12-11T21:11:09 < jadew> yeah, but that sounds like a lot of work for me
2022-12-11T21:15:12 < aandrew> hey jadew how are things
2022-12-11T21:15:28 < jadew> hey aandrew, okish
2022-12-11T21:15:28 < aandrew> jadew: robotics kits are hard to find that are not shit
2022-12-11T21:15:31 < aandrew> I've struggled for years
2022-12-11T21:15:45 < aandrew> they're either stupid expensive or shit
2022-12-11T21:15:45 < jadew> yeah, that seems to be the case
2022-12-11T21:15:52 < jadew> yep
2022-12-11T21:16:30 < aandrew> I've been talking with the stempedia people (out of India) - good scratch-like block language and also micropython, app on ios/android/windows/linux/osx, and LOTS of board support
2022-12-11T21:16:31 < jadew> a toy-grade roboti arm would be cool
2022-12-11T21:16:49 < fenugrec> zyp has a robot arm
2022-12-11T21:16:55 < fenugrec> maybe he would sell
2022-12-11T21:17:07 < aandrew> I've got their BLE protocol mostly figured out and can use esp32 and build my own shit
2022-12-11T21:17:25 < aandrew> using something like quarky (their robot) or anything really
2022-12-11T21:17:36 < aandrew> the key component for me is being able to use MY firmware/hardware with their app
2022-12-11T21:17:50 < aandrew> now on amazon there are some neat things if you can factor out that
2022-12-11T21:17:53 < aandrew> I've got this for the boys
2022-12-11T21:18:22 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09DP1QFPN
2022-12-11T21:18:29 < aandrew> it's not perfect but it's adaptable
2022-12-11T21:18:42 < jadew> that looks nice
2022-12-11T21:19:14 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/Sillbird-Projects-Controlled-Building-Birthday/dp/B09PXVK3F5 this kind of shit is all hot garbage
2022-12-11T21:19:41 < fenugrec> looks like lego, probably incompatible and poor fit&finish ?
2022-12-11T21:20:02 < jadew> the lego type stuff is more lego than robot - that's the problem I have with it
2022-12-11T21:20:09 < aandrew> yes. it makes the kid hopeful that it's a fun toy but it's not it just shit garbage, not lego, not compatible with anything
2022-12-11T21:20:12 < aandrew> yes
2022-12-11T21:20:26 < jadew> I mean if I'm buying a robot toy, I would like emphasis on the mechanics and the electronics
2022-12-11T21:20:30 < aandrew> aliexpress has lots of lego-compatible motors and servos and combined with my esp32 firmware that's not a bad platform
2022-12-11T21:21:40 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/CIC-Kits-CIC21-535-Robotic-Edge/dp/B014B2288E
2022-12-11T21:21:51 < aandrew> I always thought those were neat but they're all kind of weak so not a really effective arm
2022-12-11T21:22:12 < aandrew> and better kits on ali are possible but I've no experience there
2022-12-11T21:22:44 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/Adeept-RaspTank-Raspberry-Educational-Programming/dp/B0B1X8D1F7 that might be nice
2022-12-11T21:23:01 < aandrew> but check out stempedia and pictoblox specifically
2022-12-11T21:23:09 < aandrew> I am really hopeful for that specific platform
2022-12-11T21:23:16 < aandrew> especially since it talks to damn near everything
2022-12-11T21:23:34 < jadew> which platform?
2022-12-11T21:23:40 < aandrew> pictoblox
2022-12-11T21:24:00 < jadew> isn't that scratch?
2022-12-11T21:24:27 < aandrew> yes and micropython; both supported and has advanced shit like ML, vision and IOT as well
2022-12-11T21:24:35 < aandrew> scratch can't interface with physical things nicely
2022-12-11T21:24:41 < jadew> I see
2022-12-11T21:24:43 < aandrew> and they're trying to do it all online too which is a non-starter for me
2022-12-11T21:24:50 < aandrew> I want it 100% offline
2022-12-11T21:25:05 < aandrew> and I want absolutely zero proprietary hardware 
2022-12-11T21:25:31 < jadew> think this arm is any good? https://thestempedia.com/shop/diy-learning-kits/5-dof-robotic-arm-add-on-kit/
2022-12-11T21:31:48 < aandrew> that does look kind of nice
2022-12-11T21:31:52 < aandrew> and it's on that platform
2022-12-11T21:32:04 < aandrew> with their evie platform I think (don't know what that is exactly)
2022-12-11T21:32:12 < aandrew> $75 seems damn cheap
2022-12-11T21:32:18 < aandrew> what's the evie kit though
2022-12-11T21:32:34 < aandrew> $155 isn't bad
2022-12-11T21:32:41 < aandrew> and you can replace that with anything really
2022-12-11T21:33:02 < jadew> evive is the box?
2022-12-11T21:33:03 < aandrew> damn I wished I'd seen that before I ordered the base quarky just as a reference
2022-12-11T21:33:14 < aandrew> evie is the box yes, basically esp32 breadboard and not sure what else
2022-12-11T21:33:42 < jadew> probably drivers for the servos?
2022-12-11T21:34:47 < aandrew> well that's just arduino
2022-12-11T21:34:50 < aandrew> like pWM output
2022-12-11T21:34:51 < aandrew> no biggie
2022-12-11T21:35:16 < aandrew> but yeah 155 + 75 and you get something moderately useful
2022-12-11T21:35:18 < aandrew> and you can go from there
2022-12-11T21:35:22 < aandrew> not bad
2022-12-11T21:36:28 < aandrew> shipping is fast too.. .orderd mine mid last week and dhl is delivering today
2022-12-11T21:36:53 < jadew> should be here by Christmas then
2022-12-11T21:36:54 < aandrew> I really like how they have tons of tutorials/projects/videos/etc so you're not left trying to do everything with the kids
2022-12-11T21:37:04 < aandrew> like I said, they put a lot of effort in it
2022-12-11T21:37:30 < aandrew> I was surprised they gave me the BLE endpoints (but not hte data) but that's enough to figure out the rest easily
2022-12-11T21:37:47 < aandrew> and there's several github repos with more stuff aimed at dabble (an app for basically interfacing without programming)
2022-12-11T21:38:04 < aandrew> https://github.com/STEMpedia/DabbleESP32
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2022-12-11T22:12:01 < zyp> fenugrec, nah, I need to get it running before my kid gets old enough to start programming it
2022-12-11T22:27:54 < fenugrec> heh
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2022-12-11T23:46:06 < jadew> aandrew, sorry, had to go afk
2022-12-11T23:46:14 < jadew> which one did you get for your kids?
2022-12-11T23:46:22 < jadew> I like the starter kit too
2022-12-11T23:46:44 < jadew> looks like you can make some autonomous robot car type of thing with it
--- Day changed ma joulu 12 2022
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2022-12-12T00:12:16 < aandrew> Jadew: I didn’t get any of the stempedia ones for the kids, I did get their cheapest quarky kit so I could use it to help reverse engineer some of the protocol
2022-12-12T00:15:03 < aandrew> I was saying evie and the robot arm looks like a good price/performance
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2022-12-12T02:33:51 < jadew> I'm still not sure what to get...
2022-12-12T02:39:30 < jadew> I'm not sure if he'd get more entertainment from getting a robot arm directly or from designing it... or even just finding one online and printing it, then looking for the components ourselves, etc
2022-12-12T02:40:37 < jadew> I pulled him from the robotics class because they were just playing with legos and told him that if he wants to build robots, we can build actual robots, so this would be a nice activity to have together
2022-12-12T02:42:00 < jadew> I don't know why we have two holidays for the same stuff...
2022-12-12T02:42:28 < jadew> I already got him what he wanted for st. Nicholas - the real santa
2022-12-12T02:42:35 < jadew> now I'm out of ideas
2022-12-12T02:48:51 < fenugrec> what is the second holiday, krampus-day ?
2022-12-12T02:49:00 < jadew> yeah
2022-12-12T02:49:09 < jadew> we actually watched Krampus last night
2022-12-12T02:49:13 < jadew> he enjoyed it
2022-12-12T03:08:09 < jadew> aandrew, why did you need to reverse engineer the protocol?
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2022-12-12T09:53:16 < jpa-> international shipping is mysterious; my package from USA is arriving into Finland from Netherlands carried by Norway Post
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2022-12-12T10:17:41 < benishor> aandrew: how old are your boys?
2022-12-12T10:19:14 < benishor> jpa-: sounds like santa's bringing it
2022-12-12T10:20:36 < rustyaxe> when i was a kid, i apparently misspelled 'santa' as 'satan' on my envelope for my letter asking for a new computer... a few weeks after getting nothing for christmas, i received a copy of windows 3.11 on floppies in the mail from microsoft.. Coincidence? Probably not.
2022-12-12T10:20:56 < rustyaxe> nothing computer related that is
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2022-12-12T10:33:35 < benishor> :D
2022-12-12T10:48:21 < karlp> jadew: he said he wanted to use their apps with his own devices and firmware, or at least, that's how I read it.
2022-12-12T10:48:33 < zyp> jpa-, could be worse, could be postnord
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2022-12-12T11:44:14 < karlp> so, for giggles, usb NCM gadgets work out of the box with windows 11, but there's no donated vid:pid in linux to create them properly out of the box.
2022-12-12T11:44:41 < karlp> rndis via g_ether works out of the box with windows 8..10 and osx, and comes with a vid:pid.
2022-12-12T11:45:05 < karlp> thanks MS.  no idea why they killed the g_ether gadget working.
2022-12-12T11:45:30 < jpa-> huh, they killed rndis?
2022-12-12T11:46:21 < jpa-> ah, needs to be installed separately or something
2022-12-12T11:50:38 < jpa-> i tried asking chatgpt whether windows 11 supports rndis, answer is "I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as Windows 11."
2022-12-12T11:51:00 < jpa-> chatgpt lives in a happier world than we do :)
2022-12-12T12:16:25 < karlp> lol, thanks nordick: https://imgur.com/a/pzudrVP
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2022-12-12T12:33:49 < mawk> southcock
2022-12-12T12:39:07 < jadew> karlp, ah, you're right
2022-12-12T12:46:02 < PaulFertser> fwiw, here's the odd discussion related to rndis support in Linux: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/d397e09df8bfd1286ed3e652fbba37ec7fe02f32.camel@sipsolutions.net/t/
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2022-12-12T12:51:27 < jpa-> having implemented rndis, i don't see why it would be fundamentally insecure
2022-12-12T12:51:49 < PaulFertser> Nobody does so far :)
2022-12-12T12:52:15 < jpa-> i expect that the windows implementation is, but every other platform just uses the most common requests and doesn't parse arbitrary GUIDs to arbitrary actions
2022-12-12T12:52:49 < PaulFertser> I guess the problem is that the dev who took care of this protocol deceased, and Greg got a CVE report and had no clear idea how to fix it.
2022-12-12T12:55:15 < jpa-> has to be quite weird CVE then, considering that the linux rndis driver is relatively straightforward IMO
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2022-12-12T13:03:05 < karlp> well, fuck this world then.
2022-12-12T13:03:39 < karlp> the gadget rndis driver _works_ out of the box with windows 8,10 and osx, and has a well established vid:pid in linux.
2022-12-12T13:03:52 < karlp> I mean, it's a good 15% worse performance than ecm, but whatever.
2022-12-12T13:06:46 < jpa-> yeah, last time i was messing with this stuff, ECM and NCM were way too difficult to get working on mac & win
2022-12-12T13:06:54 < jpa-> rndis just works, as stupid as it is
2022-12-12T13:07:43 < karlp> thanks for that thread paul, Maciej Żenczykowski even says "Note that NCM isn't natively supported by Windows <10" which is what I found as well.
2022-12-12T13:08:15 < mawk> maintain the rndis code as a patch
2022-12-12T13:08:21 < mawk> bill it to your company
2022-12-12T13:08:23 < mawk> profit
2022-12-12T13:09:13 < karlp> there's enough naks ther I hope it just didn't go further.
2022-12-12T13:11:15 < jpa-> i'd expect that *if* rndis host is removed from kernel, there will soon be an userspace program to implement it
2022-12-12T13:13:45 < mawk> with a tap device I guess
2022-12-12T13:14:18 < mawk> it's more or less the only way
2022-12-12T13:14:37 < mawk> or a vsock maybe
2022-12-12T13:15:35 < mawk> yeah not vsock
2022-12-12T13:16:01 < jpa-> yeah, either tun or tap; tap would be more appropriate but even tun (ip-packet level) would work for most use cases
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2022-12-12T20:57:48 < benishor> I have this board with a STM32H7 and a wm8731 codec
2022-12-12T20:58:15 < benishor> as soon as I enable USB (regardless of serial or audio), I get a 1KHz and harmonics on the DAC output
2022-12-12T21:00:48 < benishor> any idea on how to silence that?
2022-12-12T21:02:57 < benishor> it must come from the USB FS rate
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2022-12-12T21:39:13 < PaulFertser> benishor: you mean they overpower I2S source? 
2022-12-12T21:39:28 < PaulFertser> Or the analog output of the codec?
2022-12-12T21:40:07 < benishor> PaulFertser: analog output of the codec
2022-12-12T21:40:52 < benishor> PaulFertser: https://hq.scene.ro/daisy-seed-serial.png
2022-12-12T21:41:15 < benishor> the 1KHz and harmonics appear when I connect CDC serial to the board
2022-12-12T21:41:44 < benishor> I am using tinyUSB, disguising as a device with an audio interface (input/output) and 2xserials
2022-12-12T21:42:17 < benishor> that picture is with the analog codec output routed into the computer through a hiqh quality sound card
2022-12-12T21:42:49 < benishor> as soon as I have USB transfers, I get that 1KHz disturbance
2022-12-12T21:43:05 < benishor> it's really small but it is annoying for me because I am doing radio stuff
2022-12-12T21:44:00 < qyx> did you scope I2S data?
2022-12-12T21:44:42 < qyx> wrong interrupt priorities maybe? some bus congestion, delayed DMA, etc?
2022-12-12T21:47:00 < PaulFertser> benishor: interesting. Does that change if you add some load in parallel?
2022-12-12T21:47:39 < PaulFertser> 2 kHz harmonic looks stronger than 1 kHz?
2022-12-12T21:56:55 < benishor> yup
2022-12-12T21:56:57 < benishor> weirdly
2022-12-12T21:57:13 < benishor> but maybe that's due to soundcard input response
2022-12-12T21:57:31 < benishor> PaulFertser: no, it does not change with extra load
2022-12-12T21:57:52 < benishor> qyx: without USB, I get the proper I2S data
2022-12-12T21:58:13 < benishor> SAI uses DMA, tinyUSB uses ... don't know 
2022-12-12T21:58:57 < qyx> isn't 1 kHz exactly the ring buffer period?
2022-12-12T21:59:07 < qyx> ie. 48 sample buffer at 48 kHz
2022-12-12T21:59:24 < qyx> but meh, that would not answer the USB part
2022-12-12T22:03:11 < rustyaxe> You can fit ~1200 lines of code on a single page of 8.5x11 paper by printing it via libreoffice, 16 pages per side, duplex.. And still actually read it. Lol
2022-12-12T22:10:21 < benishor> qyx: no. and I experimented with various sizes of the ring buffer to no avail
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2022-12-12T22:10:32 < benishor> it's something linked to the USB
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2022-12-12T22:55:58 < fenugrec> do you see same 1kHz on power supply rails
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2022-12-12T23:05:47 < zyp> benishor, dumb question; how do you have PA9 configured?
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2022-12-12T23:50:43 < fenugrec> more email ping-pong later with FLIR re GPL sources... "Due to the complexity of your case, I will be collaborating with a product specialist to investigate further. I will get back to you with updates [...]"
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2022-12-12T23:54:53 < fenugrec> level 1 gatekeeper passed
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--- Day changed ti joulu 13 2022
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2022-12-13T00:44:23 < aandrew> benishor: the last two are 13 and 10
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2022-12-13T02:42:28 < lagash> rustyaxe: at what font size??
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2022-12-13T08:37:55 < benishor> zyp: well, PA9 is connected directly to USB V+
2022-12-13T08:38:35 < benishor> and power is drawn from it or from an external power supply to supply the thing (two diodes)
2022-12-13T08:39:03 < benishor> PA9 is configured as input, no pull-up
2022-12-13T08:39:26 < benishor> aandrew: cool. I was thinking of getting my 6yo a kit too but those seem too heavy for his age
2022-12-13T08:39:40 < benishor> can you share from your older gift lists? :)
2022-12-13T08:43:23 < jpa-> probably not your issue, but in general connecting USB V+ directly to IO pin is not necessarily a great idea, it can be easy to exceed the specs; a series resistor would be good
2022-12-13T08:46:47 < benishor> jpa-: it passes through a regulator, ferite bead, etc
2022-12-13T08:47:15 < benishor> I just tested with power coming from an external linear well filtered and regulated supply
2022-12-13T08:47:20 < benishor> same crap :/
2022-12-13T08:47:59 < jpa-> benishor: ah, i thought you said directly
2022-12-13T08:48:24 < jpa-> a 3.3V regulator before IO pin of course makes it ok
2022-12-13T08:49:01 < benishor> jpa-: I meant PA9 is connected directly to USB V+
2022-12-13T08:49:30 < benishor> I have an usb isolator on order
2022-12-13T08:49:49 < benishor> I hope that will fix my problem although I have the gut feeling it won't ;/
2022-12-13T08:49:53 < jpa-> yes, and i meant it is not a good idea to connect any IO pin directly to USB V+
2022-12-13T08:50:09 < benishor> jpa-: ah, ok. I get it now
2022-12-13T08:50:35 < benishor> not a board of my making though
2022-12-13T08:51:23 < benishor> I'm afraid the 1KHz is generated by the usb code and picked up by the codec due to layout
2022-12-13T08:51:51 < benishor> either ground issues or more decoupling needed
2022-12-13T08:53:02 < jpa-> in USB 1.x, the single-ended 0 in SOF packets is a frequent cause of 1kHz noise
2022-12-13T08:53:40 < jpa-> and if you connect it to the same PC where the USB is though a single-ended connection, it is not surprising that it comes through
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2022-12-13T09:56:15 < jpa-> i was about to complain why DMA timings are never documented, but actually the RP2040 DMA block diagram is quite useful  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/rp2040_dma.png
2022-12-13T09:56:36 < jpa-> i wonder how similar / different the STM32 DMA is in function, e.g. can it read and write on same cycle or not
2022-12-13T09:58:53 < jpa-> i guess AN4031 explains it, seems somewhat different
2022-12-13T09:59:45 < jpa-> especially the "DMA arbitration" cycle of STM32 DMA is a bit weird to me, does it waste a whole cycle deciding what to do?
2022-12-13T10:09:12 < zyp> looks like it's pipelined
2022-12-13T10:09:41 < zyp> so yeah, it wastes the first cycle, but for the following cycles it's happening concurrently with the transfer
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2022-12-13T10:22:23 < jpa-> zyp: makes sense
2022-12-13T10:22:39 < jpa-> when doing some timer -> dma -> gpio stuff, i've been disappointed at the latency
2022-12-13T10:24:24 < jpa-> latency is something the RP2040 datasheet doesn't answer at all either
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2022-12-13T11:09:36 < jpa-> this must be the craziest DMA contraption i have built so far:   1) DMA CH 0 copies bytes from RAM to PIO_SM0   2) PIO_SM0 adds lookup table base address to the bytes    3) DMA CH1 copies words from PIO_SM0 to DMA CH2 read addr register   4) DMA CH2 copies from lookup table to PIO_SM1   5) PIO_SM1 finally sends the data out to SCSI
2022-12-13T11:09:50 < jpa-> all this to add parity without tying up the CPU
2022-12-13T11:21:07 < karlp> sounds successful though
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2022-12-13T11:26:11 < jpa-> not sure yet, i haven't tested it yet
2022-12-13T11:29:10 < jpa-> the fastest software method i figured out was   https://godbolt.org/z/f9MM1WzxT   but it took 10 cycles per byte
2022-12-13T11:30:24 < qyx> optimizing much?
2022-12-13T11:30:48 < jpa-> always
2022-12-13T11:31:16 < qyx> prematurely?!
2022-12-13T11:31:22 < jpa-> no, too late
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2022-12-13T11:32:10 < qyx> and how's the esd tester?
2022-12-13T11:32:28 < jpa-> how's the stm32h7 availability?
2022-12-13T11:32:38 < qyx> getting better
2022-12-13T11:32:48 < qyx> even L4+ back in stock
2022-12-13T11:37:35 < jpa-> for simple precompliance checks, you can always just zap with a piezo lighter
2022-12-13T11:42:39 < karlp> I thought you said the rp2040 version was best yet?
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2022-12-13T12:44:41 < srk> someone recognizes this connector? https://imgur.io/a/NQc3Gda on e-bike battery
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2022-12-13T12:49:04 < PaulFertser> srk: there was https://connectorbook.com/identification.html recently mentioned, I wonder if that can help.
2022-12-13T12:56:26 < srk> uu, neato
2022-12-13T13:00:29 < karlp> looks like china christmas lights
2022-12-13T13:04:16 < PaulFertser> Another idea would be to crop and rotate the image to have just the connector and use reverse image search on Google or something like that.
2022-12-13T13:05:11 < srk> hmm! I'm disassembling it rn to see if there's some marking on it from the other side
2022-12-13T13:12:26 < srk> btw I've managed to blow up drv8302 on vesc4.12, was testing full speed to full brake w/o load, got overcurrent error once, tried one more time and it released smoke /o\ maybe because it was on dps5020 and not on battery, good that I didn't blow up the PSU I guess
2022-12-13T13:13:34 < srk> worked pretty well with magnetic encoder altough I was getting some noise induced SPI failures despite using shielded cable
2022-12-13T13:17:59 < srk> hmm, no markings on it but I found the chinese battery vendor website link inside :D
2022-12-13T13:18:43 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, and it'll be better yet if i get this dma hack to work :)
2022-12-13T13:19:18 < jpa-> not sure if pushing 20 MB/s on a 125MHz CPU is much of an achievement, but it doesn't seem to be trivial either
2022-12-13T13:30:38 < srk> uu, it's XLR, GX16 2 pin. was looking at this one via the connectorbook, cool. it says "Aviation" GX circular connectors
2022-12-13T13:30:41 < srk> :D
2022-12-13T13:33:54 < srk> or I can get a complete mounting assembly with it.. fun https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004817624221.html
2022-12-13T13:38:40 < srk> cool pack https://www.dhresource.com/0x0/f2/albu/g10/M00/D2/70/rBVaWVzf7_aADjatAAeCohWkpZk766.jpg/free-to-home-reention-dorado-plus-battery.jpg
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2022-12-13T14:34:59 < benishor> hmmm
2022-12-13T14:35:02 < benishor> "Normally a SOF packet (at full speed) or a Keep Alive signal (at low speed) is sent by the host every 1 ms, and this is what keeps the device awake."
2022-12-13T14:35:20 < benishor> so this might be the source of my 1KHz shit
2022-12-13T14:35:27 < benishor> as jpa rightfully noticed
2022-12-13T14:35:34 < benishor> question is how do I get rid of it
2022-12-13T14:37:10 < jpa-> the options i know about are to isolate USB, isolate audio, use balanced audio connection or use floating driver for audio
2022-12-13T14:40:21 < jpa-> the last can be simplest, but only works for small voltage differences; once you plug the audio output to some laptop with 120VAC on chassis, you'll have problems again
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2022-12-13T15:15:00 < jpa-> lol, i didn't know the sensepeek flexible arm is more like a wet noodle than the typical bendable metal feel
2022-12-13T15:15:03 < jpa-> but this works well
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2022-12-13T15:33:38 < karlp> it needs to be wet noodle so that they weight down properly right?
2022-12-13T15:33:50 < karlp> or, aldente noodle at least...
2022-12-13T15:35:55 < jpa-> yeah
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2022-12-13T16:06:00 < fenugrec> jpa-, your parity lookup just hammers r4 all the time, that probably doesn't help
2022-12-13T16:06:48 < fenugrec> also, u32 in/out ptrs ? interesting
2022-12-13T16:08:15 < jpa-> fenugrec: i don't quite understand what you mean by "hammers r4"
2022-12-13T16:09:10 < jpa-> but yeah, uint32 for 4x unrolling, though output is uint16 because on cortex-m0 shifting and orring to coalesce writes was slower than just strh
2022-12-13T16:09:21 < fenugrec> it's using r4 for everything, writing to it almost every cycle - that would stall a pipeline when e.g. the next instr needs r4 for a mem access, and next instruction also is waiting for r4 to write more stuff to it
2022-12-13T16:09:35 < jpa-> hmm, does it really? on cortex-m0?
2022-12-13T16:09:46 < fenugrec> no idea. I thought there was basic pipelining
2022-12-13T16:10:00 < jpa-> does it on some cortex-m?
2022-12-13T16:10:26 < fenugrec> CM0 " with a 3-stage pipeline von Neumann architecture. "
2022-12-13T16:10:58 < jpa-> i thought cortex-m0 instruction timing is quite deterministic, with the exception of bus contention on memory access
2022-12-13T16:11:24 < fenugrec> a proper simulator would clearly show that, but sadly, there are few options !
2022-12-13T16:12:21 < fenugrec> Also, gcc rarely uses the pre/postincrement regs, which I feel could be useful here
2022-12-13T16:12:46 < jpa-> (actually i'm on cortex-m0+, so it is just two-stage pipeline)
2022-12-13T16:14:28 < jpa-> but so far i don't have any reason to believe that such pipeline stalls would happen on cortex-m0+, or on cortex-m0 either for that matter
2022-12-13T16:15:05 < fenugrec> ok. I don't either. Just looks suspicious when 15 instructions in a row have the same reg as destination
2022-12-13T16:15:33 < jpa-> well, cortex-m0 can only use R0-R7 for indexed load instructions
2022-12-13T16:16:01 < fenugrec> Is it worth it to write that single func by hand ?
2022-12-13T16:16:01 < zyp> jpa-, re: sensepeek, that surprised me a bit as well, but they work great
2022-12-13T16:16:33 < jpa-> fenugrec: not really, considering i already have figured out a faster way by DMA + PIO
2022-12-13T16:18:07 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/bzTvPxsrv   this is still a bottleneck function though that i haven't figured out a better alternative for
2022-12-13T16:18:43 < fenugrec> has anyone ever used DMA + USB_FS ? looks like I'm spending a lot of time in read_ and write_PMA()
2022-12-13T16:19:00 < zyp> you mean generic DMA?
2022-12-13T16:19:13 < zyp> because only the OTG_HS instance has internal DMA
2022-12-13T16:19:28 < fenugrec> yeah, thinking of the standadr DMA periph
2022-12-13T16:19:34 < fenugrec> haven't even checked if it has triggers for USB
2022-12-13T16:19:40 < fenugrec> *standard
2022-12-13T16:19:53 < zyp> are you sure regular DMA can access the packet memory?
2022-12-13T16:20:06 < fenugrec> why not ? as long as it's set to proper width ?
2022-12-13T16:20:37 < zyp> DMA can't access every slave on the memory interconnect
2022-12-13T16:21:15 < zyp> but if it can, you can of course use DMA in M2M mode to copy packets in and out
2022-12-13T16:21:29 < jpa-> i think it can access the USB register interface, and could copy in M2M mode
2022-12-13T16:21:48 < fenugrec> hmm
2022-12-13T16:21:55 < zyp> the memory is in a separate area
2022-12-13T16:22:06 < jpa-> though i'm surprised if you are spending that much time copying data there, USB FS is max. 1 MByte/s anyway so if you are writing 4 bytes at a time, i would expect less than 1% CPU load from that
2022-12-13T16:22:18 < lemmi> didn't the usb mem  have a very weird layout?
2022-12-13T16:22:23 < lemmi> at least on some chips
2022-12-13T16:22:29 < zyp> doesn't apply here
2022-12-13T16:22:34 < zyp> dwc_otg uses FIFOs
2022-12-13T16:22:42 < lemmi> k
2022-12-13T16:22:59 < jpa-> assuming this is DWC_OTG and not some STM32F103 stuff :)
2022-12-13T16:23:12 < zyp> but yeah, st_usbfs_v1 has a 16-bit memory hooked to a 32-bit port
2022-12-13T16:23:15 < fenugrec> no no this is USB_FS on F0
2022-12-13T16:23:22 < fenugrec> with the 16-bit access PMA
2022-12-13T16:23:26 < zyp> oh
2022-12-13T16:23:33 < zyp> my bad
2022-12-13T16:23:39 < zyp> that's st_usbfs_v2
2022-12-13T16:23:41 < fenugrec> my profiling is so-so, but it did show a lot of entries in the USB functions
2022-12-13T16:23:54 < zyp> and v2 has a proper 32 to 16-bit bridge
2022-12-13T16:24:08 < zyp> you'll still have to do 16-bit accesses though
2022-12-13T16:24:19 < fenugrec> right - DMA can do that IIRC
2022-12-13T16:24:25 < zyp> I think so
2022-12-13T16:24:36 < jpa-> looks like the PMA goes through the same APB interface, so i expect it should work
2022-12-13T16:24:42 < karlp> uint32_x = ... >> 32?
2022-12-13T16:24:46 < karlp> how does that work jpa?
2022-12-13T16:24:57 < karlp> nvm, didn't notice it was a u64
2022-12-13T16:25:00 < jpa-> :)
2022-12-13T16:25:37 < jpa-> funnily that line gets assembled to nothing, because the 64-bit types are split to 32-bit registers anyway :)
2022-12-13T16:29:35 < fenugrec> righ, USB_FS definitely doesn't have direct DMA requests, but M2M should probably work. Whether or not that will be a performance gain is another question
2022-12-13T16:30:11 < jpa-> if you have something better for the CPU to do in the meanwhile :)
2022-12-13T16:30:44 < fenugrec> keeping HAL happy seems to take a lot of that
2022-12-13T16:31:28 < zyp> a full 64B packet would be 32 16b transfers, hardly seems useful to replace that with scheduling and waiting for completion of a DMA job
2022-12-13T16:31:36 < fenugrec> profile log : https://bpa.st/YG4Q
2022-12-13T16:32:16 < fenugrec> (I think that's before a patch which took care of reducing the calls to led_XYZ funcs, so ignore that)
2022-12-13T16:33:04 < zyp> by the way, what is the USB doing here? what sort of traffic is it you've got running?
2022-12-13T16:33:53 < fenugrec> it's a gs_usb device (USB-CAN) https://github.com/candle-usb/candleLight_fw/  , trying to flood a CAN bus
2022-12-13T16:34:41 < fenugrec> at -O2 we're just barely getting ~18000 frames/sec, at -Os it's about 13000
2022-12-13T16:35:05 < zyp> does it ever put more than one CAN packet in a USB transfer? if not, they're gonna be like 12B packets, not 64B
2022-12-13T16:36:50 < fenugrec> I'm not sure TBH
2022-12-13T16:36:58 < fenugrec> not used to reading kernel code https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/net/can/usb/gs_usb.c
2022-12-13T16:38:03 < fenugrec> no I think we're doing 1 frame per transfer, but it's a bit mroe than 12bytes with protocol overhead
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2022-12-13T16:38:49 < fenugrec> should be 24 B in fact
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2022-12-13T16:53:17 < zyp> point still stands, I don't think that's gonna compare favorably against the number of cycles required to handle DMA completion interrupt :)
2022-12-13T16:53:48 < fenugrec> yes, if I have to do a manual M2M every packet, my gut feeling agrees
2022-12-13T16:56:55 < jpa-> fenugrec: what is your actual CPU load and is there some performance problem you have?
2022-12-13T16:57:50 < jpa-> you may want to group the profiling by function name, otherwise it is pretty useless
2022-12-13T16:58:27 < jpa-> if you group by instruction address, functions that have a tight loop (like that ReadPMA/WritePMA) will get overpresented
2022-12-13T16:58:30 < fenugrec> CPU load "must" be 100% when compiled at Os, and unknown at -O2 given the limited profiling possible on M0 ; I would feel better if I could max out the CANbus (so ~ 19k frames/sec) even at -Os.
2022-12-13T16:59:53 < fenugrec> yeah I seem to have lost the profile logs, will need to run more tests
2022-12-13T17:00:03 < jpa-> can always resort to GPIO profiling, turn pin high when you start some part of code and low when you end it; if you have the DAC free, it also works pretty nice for that :)
2022-12-13T17:00:38 < fenugrec> indeed
2022-12-13T17:01:12 < fenugrec> I have some LED outputs that are reasonably accessible
2022-12-13T17:01:54 < fenugrec> which reminds me, I could sure use a non-shitty bench scope that is smaller than my suitcase-sized TDS744
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2022-12-13T19:16:51 < kaki> any idea what those automotive diagnosis lead kits are called?
2022-12-13T19:17:05 < kaki> comes with million different pins and sockets
2022-12-13T19:17:38 < kaki> for connecting to multimeter or scope or load tester
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2022-12-13T19:28:08 < rustyaxe> i have no idea what you're talking about. we have alligator clips, regular probes, and whatever that connector for ODBII is :O first two we use for for electrical things, the later for computer interfacin
2022-12-13T19:29:50 < kaki> car repair shops have these drawers full of stuff that can connect into virtually any component or connector in automotive use
2022-12-13T19:33:54 < englishman> i just poked a paperclip in a connector and attached an alligator clip to it
2022-12-13T19:36:24 < jpa-> something like https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Specialties-146-Automotive-Connector/dp/B00U3WSYJ4 ?
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2022-12-13T19:47:19 < BrainDamage> englishman: on a pci-e diff pair?
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2022-12-13T21:56:55 < Laurence_b> lolll my edgelord m9 from uni has been b& from twitter permanently by mr musk himself
2022-12-13T21:57:01 < Laurence_b> top kek
2022-12-13T21:57:24 < Laurence_b> >all these years he avoided getting b& whilst trolling teh libtards and femnazis
2022-12-13T21:58:03 < Laurence_b> >sent one tweet saying abortion was a final solution for the disability problem and permab& by Musk
2022-12-13T21:59:46 < Laurence_b> right wingers are the real SJWs confirmed
2022-12-13T22:02:43 < Laurence_b> keek radical christians reported him to Musk lmao
2022-12-13T22:30:47 < qyx> isn't that against his free speech principle?
2022-12-13T22:32:04 < n0toose[m]> he did ban accounts that posted him getting booed out of a stage too lol
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2022-12-13T22:47:27 < kaki> jpa-: hmm yees
2022-12-13T22:49:50 < kaki> https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-69300-Master-Relay-Test/dp/B00CRQSYY4 dummy relays even
2022-12-13T22:52:48 < kaki> tasty
2022-12-13T22:53:07 < kaki> but 190eur.. and i dont need it
2022-12-13T22:56:20 < kaki> https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-65150-Flexible-Back-Probe/dp/B00RGNFAMC this is the shit for automotive. back probes
2022-12-13T22:59:18 < kaki> a lot of back probes
2022-12-13T23:08:06 < kaki> is amazon just a massive dropshipping company?
2022-12-13T23:08:26 < kaki> if I order something the order will be received in china right?
2022-12-13T23:08:57 < zyp> the trick is to only order stuff that's «fulfilled by amazon»
2022-12-13T23:09:05 < kaki> aah
2022-12-13T23:09:13 < zyp> i.e. filter by «prime shipping» or some shit
2022-12-13T23:09:18 < kaki> and from germany
2022-12-13T23:09:29 < kaki> or poland or spain or whatever
2022-12-13T23:09:35 < zyp> maybe, I don't have much experience with that
2022-12-13T23:09:44 < zyp> I mostly only order from amazon jp when I'm in jp
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2022-12-13T23:11:56 < kaki> that sounds like you are in japan every other week
2022-12-13T23:13:01 < zyp> I wish
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2022-12-13T23:15:19 < kaki> btw I only have china probes for multimeter
2022-12-13T23:15:29 < kaki> any product you would recommend?
2022-12-13T23:15:39 < kaki> with replaceable consumables
2022-12-13T23:16:12 < kaki> I know yall roll with fluke gear
2022-12-13T23:20:44 < kaki> when you going back zyp?
2022-12-13T23:20:56 < zyp> maybe july
2022-12-13T23:21:13 < kaki> did you dox dongs?
2022-12-13T23:21:32 < zyp> dox? idk
2022-12-13T23:21:39 < zyp> but I've been to his house before
2022-12-13T23:22:09 < kaki> crazy
2022-12-13T23:22:32 < BrainDamage> did he make his random rants irl too?
2022-12-13T23:22:47 < kaki> he lives in old yamakuza tea house
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2022-12-13T23:24:01 < kaki> did you go smelling those threes with white flowers zyp?
2022-12-13T23:25:45 < kaki> trees
2022-12-13T23:43:29 < zyp> sure
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--- Day changed ke joulu 14 2022
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2022-12-14T00:42:40 < Steffanx-> Did you make snow angels yet, kaki?
2022-12-14T00:42:53 < kaki> i would not
2022-12-14T01:05:27 < Steffanx-> Naked in the snow after sauna. Why not.
2022-12-14T01:12:57 < kaki> ah
2022-12-14T01:33:47 < Steffanx-> Its not what all finnishers do apparently :(
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2022-12-14T01:57:24 < kaki> it's called snow bathing
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2022-12-14T02:03:12 < Laurence_b> why so steamtrainy?
2022-12-14T02:03:15 < Laurence_b> https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/n-gauge-layout-featured.jpg?w=800
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2022-12-14T09:31:45 < jpa-> zyp: i know you love random, poorly defined issue reports, so here it goes: sometimes orbtrace 1.2.0 keeps repeating old trace data until i unplug it - when my board prints new stuff, i see the trace LED blink and then from   nc localhost 3443   i get about 500 bytes of some old log entries - then when board prints new stuff, i get 500 bytes more of old log entries
2022-12-14T09:32:48 < jpa-> this seems to happen when the board has been printing stuff while i haven't had all PC software running
2022-12-14T09:33:09 < jpa-> restarting orbuculum and netcat does not fix it, but unplugging and replugging orbtrace does fix it
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2022-12-14T11:06:13 < zyp> jpa-, SWO?
2022-12-14T11:06:52 < zyp> «about 500» as in 512?
2022-12-14T11:07:04 < zyp> is that counting ITM overhead or not?
2022-12-14T11:08:49 < jpa-> raw UART
2022-12-14T11:09:01 < jpa-> i'm running orbuculum with   orbuculum -O "-T u -a 1000000"
2022-12-14T11:09:16 < zyp> ah, right
2022-12-14T11:09:31 < jpa-> and no, not exactly 512 bytes, it seems to vary a bit - sometimes 450, sometimes 524 bytes, or random values in between
2022-12-14T11:10:04 < jpa-> i tried to look at the orbtrace source but couldn't figure out where it buffers data and how big the buffer is
2022-12-14T11:11:00 < zyp> there's an 8k buffer at the end of the trace pipeline: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/trace/__init__.py#L388
2022-12-14T11:11:18 < zyp> and then there's another 1k or something for the USB endpoint in the USB stack
2022-12-14T11:15:50 < zyp> how reproducible is this?
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2022-12-14T11:19:32 < jpa-> it happened yesterday and today when i powered up things in morning
2022-12-14T11:19:52 < jpa-> now that i tried to reproduce it by powering things down, i just got it to state where it outputs no UART data at all
2022-12-14T11:20:52 < zyp> did you forget -T u?
2022-12-14T11:21:27 < jpa-> no, and the trace led blinks green when the board prints
2022-12-14T11:21:54 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/bmE/plain   orbuculum output when i restart it (which does not make it work)
2022-12-14T11:22:00 < jpa-> i'm checking usb traffic with wireshark now
2022-12-14T11:27:59 < jpa-> in wireshark orbuculum now just submits bulk read URBs to endpoint 0x83 but never gets reply
2022-12-14T11:28:20 < jpa-> i'll try another power-down/power-up
2022-12-14T11:33:20 < jpa-> i can't seem to reproduce the delayed log problem when trying to do so; the "no trace output until orbtrace unplugged" gets reproduced quite readily when i have pyocd and orbuculum running when powering target down and disconnecting orbtrace
2022-12-14T11:33:44 < jpa-> somehow when i reconnect orbtrace with previous pyocd instance still running seems to get it in some weird state
2022-12-14T11:33:58 < jpa-> i'll try to get usb trace
2022-12-14T11:52:42 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/orbtrace_usb.png   not particularly useful; this is the difference between "working" and "not working" state of orbtrace when i restart orbuculum
2022-12-14T11:53:18 < jpa-> just no response to bulk reads.. i'll see what happens with the "delayed log" issue if it occurs tomorrow morning :)
2022-12-14T11:53:34 < jpa-> in any case, not a high priority bug for me, because it is easy enough to just replug orbtrace to fix it
2022-12-14T11:55:21 < jpa-> (as a note, at the end of the day i disconnect everything: target board power and orbtrace from usb, but don't bother closing software on PC; at start of day i plug things in in random order, at some point i want debugger and notice i have the old instance running but dead due to disconnection and ctrl-c out of it, and after i restart gdb & orbuculum it starts working weird)
2022-12-14T12:14:50 < jpa-> looks like when plugging in orbtrace, when orbuculum & pyocd are already running and in some weird state, the USBCOM and USBHID packets are missing - not sure if that means anything, but when that happens the uart output just doesn't come through   https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/orbtrace_usb2.png
2022-12-14T12:15:13 < jpa-> could be some weird bug in PC software that confuses the hardware
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2022-12-14T15:30:39 < zyp> jpa-, hmm, the USBCOM/USBHID stuff looks like the usual stuff that happens when the respective drivers attach, interesting that that's not happening in the failing case
2022-12-14T15:30:53 < zyp> do you get a /dev/ttyACM0 or whatever in the failing case?
2022-12-14T15:31:25 < zyp> and if you do, does it work? (opening it should give you a litex bios prompt)
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2022-12-14T15:56:19 < jpa-> zyp: cdc_acm and hid-generic appear in dmesg, i'll try tomorrow whether the serial works
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2022-12-14T19:17:50 < Mangy_Dog> because i really do just suck
2022-12-14T19:17:51 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696475688521171004/1052628857422876813/image.png
2022-12-14T19:18:09 < Mangy_Dog> can anyone see why openocd/gdb wouldnt work properly?
2022-12-14T19:18:19 < Mangy_Dog> I set a break point and it wouldnt trigger
2022-12-14T19:18:31 < Mangy_Dog> i cant even step through after pausing
2022-12-14T19:23:02 < jpa-> there are so many possible reasons that it is not worth it to even guess based on the screenshot alone
2022-12-14T19:23:21 < Mangy_Dog> just wondered if i missed out some config command arguments :/
2022-12-14T19:23:33 < jpa-> try running openocd and gdb from command line, in case they output any useful error messages
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2022-12-14T22:48:03 < kaki> you know microcontroller with peripheral that can send like 22bit frames?
2022-12-14T22:48:16 < kaki> like uart but bigger frames
2022-12-14T22:49:41 < kaki> actually my question is how to sync to arbitrary size frames
2022-12-14T22:51:39 < fenugrec> maybe some cypress psoc can do that
2022-12-14T22:51:53 < kaki> use something like spi that is clocked from some output of mcu then do some amount of oversampling and tune some clock based on how many oversampled sync samples you get?
2022-12-14T22:51:59 < fenugrec> or the oddball usb 8051... cy68013 or something with the "GPIF" periph
2022-12-14T22:52:26 < fenugrec> dunno, maybe a bit hardcoar
2022-12-14T22:52:43 < kaki> it's really slow data
2022-12-14T22:52:48 < kaki> 1200baud
2022-12-14T22:52:53 < fenugrec> oh
2022-12-14T22:52:59 < fenugrec> bitbang ftw
2022-12-14T22:53:07 < fenugrec> what is that from
2022-12-14T22:53:17 < kaki> weird bus in BMW
2022-12-14T22:53:33 < kaki> I want to hook my gadget into it
2022-12-14T22:54:18 < zyp> rp2040 PIO
2022-12-14T22:54:31 < zyp> (not sure it got regs that big though)
2022-12-14T22:55:36 < kaki> SPI running(with oversampling) from tunable clock source and stuff stored in FIFO and program going through fifo looking for what looks like sync bits
2022-12-14T22:56:28 < kaki> if found then quickly copy it from fifo and deoversample it
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2022-12-14T22:59:26 < zyp> you could go overkill with a FPGA and do something like the orbtrace SWO UART decoder: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/trace/swo.py#L203
2022-12-14T23:00:05 < zyp> or I guess you could even do this in firmware with input capture on a timer
2022-12-14T23:00:19 < kaki> overkill
2022-12-14T23:00:41 < zyp> orbtrace starts out with high and low pulse lengths, decodes that to a bitstream and then goes looking for start/stop bits in the bitstream
2022-12-14T23:01:22 < kaki> I'm going to just capture one frame from one specific address in the bus and based on the data in the frame output some PWM
2022-12-14T23:01:30 < fenugrec> ^ input capture on timer, keep fixed period during frame, measure length of frame, and adjust clock for next fram ?
2022-12-14T23:01:44 < kaki> aah yes
2022-12-14T23:01:50 < kaki> timer
2022-12-14T23:01:56 < kaki> input capture
2022-12-14T23:01:56 < fenugrec> i.e. what zyp said
2022-12-14T23:02:19 < zyp> the orbtrace SWO input is effectively input capture at 500MHz
2022-12-14T23:02:37 < fenugrec> at what point do you stop calling it "input capture" and just "sampling" P )
2022-12-14T23:02:41 < kaki> timer ofc.. it is perfect for measuring bit lenght
2022-12-14T23:02:57 < zyp> fenugrec, when it outputs data at a fixed rate
2022-12-14T23:03:00 < kaki> embedded 101
2022-12-14T23:03:15 < zyp> the orbtrace block only outputs data and edges
2022-12-14T23:03:24 < zyp> at edges*
2022-12-14T23:04:37 < zyp> the manchester decoder bins pulse lengths into long and short pulses and the uart decoder calculates how many bits was transferred between two edges
2022-12-14T23:10:58 < kaki> https://www.microchip.com/forums/m1023952.aspx
2022-12-14T23:11:47 < kaki> pause at least 3 sync bits
2022-12-14T23:11:59 < kaki> shouldn't sync be specific about number of bits
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2022-12-14T23:18:40 < kaki> you know any 8bit boards that could go right into car +12v rail without any considerations?
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2022-12-14T23:19:06 < kaki> catphish: you know any 8bit boards that could go right into car +12v rail without any considerations?
2022-12-14T23:19:32 < kaki> and has good availability
2022-12-14T23:23:43 < BrainDamage> a car's "12V" rail can reach 16V and is stupidly noisy, that'd have to be something pourposedly designed I'm afraid, or at least, have a filtering module in front
2022-12-14T23:24:02 < kaki> yes
2022-12-14T23:24:06 < kaki> and more than that
2022-12-14T23:24:46 < kaki> englishman: you can have the bestest watch and your tesla key in one
2022-12-14T23:24:48 < kaki> https://hackaday.io/project/174548-tesla-key-watch
2022-12-14T23:25:30 < BrainDamage> great, so you can get shaken down at airports more often
2022-12-14T23:26:01 < rustyaxe> ya definitely gettin a finger in ur bum from TSA that way
2022-12-14T23:26:19 < rustyaxe> maybe a whole hand up the wrist, if you're the wrong shade
2022-12-14T23:26:32 < kaki> hackaday people are doing stuff like body control modules and ecus
2022-12-14T23:26:55 < kaki> dashboards
2022-12-14T23:26:56 < rustyaxe> they thought my calculator watch was a bomb :O
2022-12-14T23:27:06 < rustyaxe> only half jokes :o
2022-12-14T23:28:42 < kaki> https://hackaday.io/project/184575-tinyml-gearbox-fault-prediction-on-a-4-mcu hmm
2022-12-14T23:29:02 < BrainDamage> it's not just the project, but that particular model of watch
2022-12-14T23:30:01 < BrainDamage> how often do you get a broken gearbox?
2022-12-14T23:30:06 < englishman> kaki: cool
2022-12-14T23:30:17 < kaki> rustyaxe had wires and number keypad hanging from F-91W?
2022-12-14T23:30:45 < englishman> F-91w is indeed the best watch
2022-12-14T23:32:41 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's a bomb of a watch
2022-12-14T23:32:42 < karlp> any glue that would work on plastic inside a dishwasher?
2022-12-14T23:33:05 < kaki> https://reaperfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/THE-MEN-IN-NO-MANS-LAND-5.png
2022-12-14T23:33:38 < kaki> men that only trust toyota hilux as a vehicle use this watch
2022-12-14T23:34:21 < kaki> karlp: plastics in there are pvc right?
2022-12-14T23:34:40  * karlp shrugs
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2022-12-14T23:35:04 < englishman> F-91w costs $3 and there are still clones of it
2022-12-14T23:35:11 < karlp> I've got a cracked clip thingy that holds the tines up in the lower basket, and it's a $10pounds plus 20pounds shipping plus taxes sort of thing,
2022-12-14T23:35:11 < kaki> clones are shit
2022-12-14T23:35:19 < karlp> so might be worth attempted to glue it.
2022-12-14T23:35:34 < kaki> epoxy
2022-12-14T23:35:45 < karlp> bright side, I _can_ just buy it, I don't have to try and model the fucker and try and 3d print it.
2022-12-14T23:35:56 < kaki> it gets hot in there
2022-12-14T23:36:06 < kaki> don't butt anything 3d printed in there
2022-12-14T23:36:16 < karlp> you can 3d print in all sorts of things
2022-12-14T23:36:19 < kaki> I think 80C ?
2022-12-14T23:36:55 < kaki> even with epoxy I think some special epoxy with higher glass transition would be ideal
2022-12-14T23:37:14 < kaki> just CA it
2022-12-14T23:37:15 < BrainDamage> https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-94dd30f5797ff022853ae7ee964807e0-pjlq
2022-12-14T23:37:21 < BrainDamage> just use superglue
2022-12-14T23:37:31 < BrainDamage> that graph is bond strength of CA vs temp
2022-12-14T23:37:37 < kaki> yes
2022-12-14T23:37:47 < kaki> I just thought the same thing
2022-12-14T23:37:49 < karlp> super glue reallyt is super hey.
2022-12-14T23:37:49 < BrainDamage> below 100°C as you can see, it's pretty much full strength
2022-12-14T23:38:33 < kaki> you can throw natrium bicarbonate on it if you are missing some material
2022-12-14T23:39:09 < kaki> aka soda
2022-12-14T23:39:29 < kaki> *sodium bicarbonate
2022-12-14T23:39:51 < karlp> If I was 3d printing it, PEEK looks  like it would be suitable enough.
2022-12-14T23:40:50 < karlp> heh, one of the ones I'd foudn on ebay while looking for my particular one is on thingiverse.
2022-12-14T23:40:52 < karlp> not mine though
2022-12-14T23:40:57 < karlp> ok. lets try some CA first :)
2022-12-14T23:53:32 < kaki> with CA you also get the final result quite soon
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2022-12-15T00:22:17 < catphish> kaki: doesn't the classic arduino have a 12V barrel jack supply
2022-12-15T00:22:33 < kaki> hm
2022-12-15T00:23:29 < kaki> interestings
2022-12-15T00:24:23 < kaki> it would work but not necissarilly the most robust power section
2022-12-15T00:25:12 < kaki> LD1117 having absolute maximum around 15-17volts
2022-12-15T00:25:19 < kaki> *1117
2022-12-15T00:25:23 < kaki> generally
2022-12-15T00:25:55 < kaki> friend uses arduinos in his electric car all day
2022-12-15T00:26:14 < qyx> lm7805 tothe rescue
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2022-12-15T01:42:29 < machinehum> zyp: I got the ordtrace
2022-12-15T01:57:06 < catphish_> in my own designs, i've been using TPS62160DGK
2022-12-15T01:57:11 < catphish_> which goes up to 17V
2022-12-15T01:58:41 < catphish_> then again, my EV 12v rail is extremely stable at 13.7V
2022-12-15T01:59:06 < catphish_> obviously no mechanical alternator to make a mess
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2022-12-15T12:55:25 < jpa-> zyp: no problems at all this morning, thanks for the telepathic fix!
2022-12-15T12:56:12 < zyp> hah
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2022-12-15T13:08:50  * karlp grins
2022-12-15T13:09:03 < karlp> its harder to find LDOs without active output discharge than I expected...
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2022-12-15T14:30:38 < qyx> and with reverse current protection
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2022-12-15T16:11:45 < karlp> lol, nxp iw612 and rw621 "tri radio single die solutions"
2022-12-15T16:11:52 < karlp> world first because single die or some marketspeak
2022-12-15T16:12:10 < karlp> wifi has an sdio interface, bluetooth has a uart interface and 802.15.4 has a spi interface.
2022-12-15T16:12:17 < karlp> super "integrated" there chaps.
2022-12-15T16:13:14 < englishman> haha
2022-12-15T16:15:14 < karlp> to be fair, virtually allll of the combined bt/wifi parts I've looked at have been the same.
2022-12-15T16:15:40 < karlp> and the _two_ that do it both via a single usb connection, I've had no end of problems with and am basically abandoning
2022-12-15T16:21:36 < karlp> man, lots of TI regulators say "active discharge only in P suffix parts"
2022-12-15T16:21:49 < karlp> so you make a note that "yes, available without discharge"
2022-12-15T16:22:04 < karlp> and then discover that while they say that, they don't actualyl _make_ the non-P suffix parts...
2022-12-15T16:25:13 < jpa-> gah, i knew this was a mistake
2022-12-15T16:25:46 < jpa-> went to download cube to check something, now i got mail "Following your recent software download on st.com .. In the coming weeks, you will receive a number of selected and relevant newsletters."
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2022-12-15T16:28:43 < karlp> but heh, I found that you can get x2son style packages with _differnet_ sized middle pads.
2022-12-15T16:28:51 < karlp> onsemi offers parts in both versions 
2022-12-15T16:32:07 < aandrew> karlp> wifi has an sdio interface, bluetooth has a uart interface and 802.15.4 has a spi interface
2022-12-15T16:32:10 < aandrew> awesome
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2022-12-15T16:54:20 < fenugrec> jpa-, I think I use a throwaway account from bugmenot.com
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2022-12-15T17:10:57 < Streaker> st are very nice about honouring unsubscribe requests
2022-12-15T17:35:17 < Steffanx-> Last cube I downloaded didnt even want to unzip because it was corrupted
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2022-12-15T17:45:46 < mawk> you're corrupted Steffanx- 
2022-12-15T17:47:28 < Steffanx-> Maybe
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2022-12-15T20:23:59 < machinehum> Why is it people just ask me to make mains powered devices
2022-12-15T20:24:33 < jpa-> maybe they hope for an accident to occur
2022-12-15T20:24:49 < qyx> rudpa-
2022-12-15T20:25:10 < jpa-> "could you fix my neighbour's subwoofer amplifier, please?"
2022-12-15T20:25:51 < specing> maybe because they don't want to have extension cords full of adaptors
2022-12-15T20:26:10 < specing> machinehum: well idk maybe you can buy some embeddable AC adaptor and integrate it
2022-12-15T20:26:45 < qyx> 230 V sockets are history
2022-12-15T20:27:16 < machinehum> specing: You mean a board mount AC/DC UL ceritified unit?
2022-12-15T20:27:33 < jpa-> now we run 5A over flimsy connectors that have a nice chip saying "this is thick cable and it is always 20°C", it's so much safer
2022-12-15T20:28:03 < qyx> usb-c pd!
2022-12-15T20:28:29 < qyx> for 50% of classic home stuff including lighting
2022-12-15T20:28:52 < specing> machinehum: idk, something integratable
2022-12-15T20:29:25 < machinehum> There are other challenges
2022-12-15T20:29:32 < specing> bonus points if you can shift blame elsewhere if it bursts up into flames
2022-12-15T20:29:37 < jpa-> https://www.tme.eu/fi/en/details/rac05-05sk_c14/built-in-power-supplies/recom/   something like this is pretty fool-proof, though AFAIK it does not free you from the regulatory compliance stuff if you do it commercially
2022-12-15T20:30:47 < machinehum> It's good to know about that part, but it wont fit in my device
2022-12-15T20:32:20 < jpa-> if your device is that small, it may be pretty difficult to design a custom power supply that complies with insulation distances etc.
2022-12-15T20:32:21 < specing> they want to make an ac powered robotic pinkie?
2022-12-15T20:32:46 < jpa-> good quality small wall-warts are pretty tightly crammed on the inside
2022-12-15T20:32:49 < machinehum> It's not mega small it just plugs right into the wall
2022-12-15T20:32:53 < machinehum> like a night light
2022-12-15T20:33:14 < jpa-> ah, so you want a wall-wart enclosure with integrated power supply
2022-12-15T20:33:39 < machinehum> Yeah can you get stuff like that?
2022-12-15T20:34:31 < jpa-> i guess you could glue something on top of a USB charger :P
2022-12-15T20:34:58 < machinehum> I jokingly recommended that
2022-12-15T20:35:18 < machinehum> Now he's found some 1$ chargers off aliexpress
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2022-12-15T20:35:30 < Xogium> oh, dear
2022-12-15T20:35:35 < machinehum> How the fuck does the liability work with that
2022-12-15T20:36:03 < Xogium> probably by setting your house on fire any chance it gets
2022-12-15T20:36:13 < jpa-> machinehum: the importer is responsible for everything
2022-12-15T20:36:39 < jpa-> though i guess if you resell it and don't check any documentation, you share part of the blame
2022-12-15T20:37:30 < Xogium> bigclive anyone ?
2022-12-15T20:37:46 < machinehum> I guess if you do proper DD, check the docs, see if they claim UL, teardown make sure it's not completely insane
2022-12-15T20:37:56 < machinehum> Not a terrible idea
2022-12-15T20:38:14 < machinehum> Probably don't use the 1$ one... maybe like 1.50$, or even 2$
2022-12-15T20:38:18 < Xogium> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duuws2g57Yc
2022-12-15T20:38:29 < Xogium> are there really people who honestly believe this exists ?
2022-12-15T20:39:16 < jpa-> machinehum: why not just buy from somewhere half-way reputable? is it really so cost-sensitive?
2022-12-15T20:39:16 < Xogium> if it actually did, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't buy it because, lithium, y'know
2022-12-15T20:40:16 < machinehum> Who would that be? Like Ankor or someone?
2022-12-15T20:40:39 < machinehum> But I agree yeah
2022-12-15T20:40:50 < machinehum> Was joking about the 2$ thing
2022-12-15T20:41:22 < jpa-> i don't remember what area you are in, but in EU i find tme reasonably decent
2022-12-15T20:41:48 < machinehum> Canada
2022-12-15T20:42:15 < Xogium> anker does really good chargers, imo. Haven't got one failure that was really bad, and when one my nano had a problem, I just contacted them, said hey this thing has a problem, could I have another one ? And they were like sure thing ! They sent the new charger on its way without waiting for my older one to arrive
2022-12-15T20:42:35 < machinehum> Decent
2022-12-15T20:42:44 < jpa-> digikey maybe then?
2022-12-15T20:43:01 < Xogium> but yeah for actual IC and parts I don't know
2022-12-15T20:43:39 < jpa-> digikey has a pretty nice selection of shapes also, so you can choose it to fit your design
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2022-12-15T20:51:49 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/globtek-inc/302R-701R-R/14318743   +    https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/recom-power/RAC05-05SK-C14/9695301   + a box    :D
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2022-12-15T22:26:57 < catphish_> lazy question: is there an obvious choice of buck converter to run just an STM32 (3v3, low current) from a 24V automotive supply (so ideally around 35V peak)
2022-12-15T22:26:57 < catphish_> i wonder if even a linear regulator would suffice
2022-12-15T22:33:00 < catphish_> at 25v drop, a linear regulator probably isn't very sensible
2022-12-15T22:33:17 < specing> ali has such $1 converters
2022-12-15T22:50:42 < catphish_> i guess they do, just looking at options on jlc, their options for modules aren't awesome but DC-DC converter ICs are, so i might go ahead and just build a DC-DC converter, it always scares me a but, but always works when you follow the reference design
2022-12-15T22:51:54 < catphish_> it's a shame they don't make them with the passives on the chip
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2022-12-15T22:56:33 < kaki> you want drop in power block+
2022-12-15T22:56:36 < kaki> ?
2022-12-15T22:58:06 < catphish_> i just want something easy ans reliable for an otherwise very simple design
2022-12-15T22:58:09 < catphish_> *and
2022-12-15T22:58:20 < catphish_> ideally something jlc can drop onto the board
2022-12-15T23:00:10 < catphish_> usually i build out something like this: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1809050422_XLSEMI-XL1509-5-0E1_C61063.pdf
2022-12-15T23:01:03 < catphish_> but i always wonder if i'm missing a simpler all-in-one solution
2022-12-15T23:01:21 < catphish_> i'll stop whining and just draw out the circuit :)
2022-12-15T23:20:36 < qyx> catphish_: they do make them but €€€
2022-12-15T23:20:50 < qyx> analol devices has some
2022-12-15T23:20:58 < qyx> bourns/murata iirc too
2022-12-15T23:21:58 < qyx> otherwise just use a TO220 LM7805 footprint , there are many china vregs which fit it
2022-12-15T23:22:31 < qyx> as a retrofit I mean, incl. switching vregs
2022-12-15T23:23:06 < qyx> if not, my current favourite buck is MAX25231
2022-12-15T23:23:37 < qyx> low Iq, easy, fixed output version available
2022-12-15T23:26:07 < qyx> oh and meanwell has some modules with 18-36 or 18-72 V input range, they are reasonably small
2022-12-15T23:26:26 < qyx> but those are flybacks
2022-12-15T23:30:21 < catphish_> i'll see how i get on with the XL1509, it's cheap, just a minor hassle of external components
2022-12-15T23:32:00 < qyx> if you want to go full china style, MC34063 :D
2022-12-15T23:42:32 < catphish_> that seems less chinese than the one i'm looking at
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2022-12-15T23:42:56 < catphish_> i don't really know these brands :)
2022-12-15T23:42:57 < qyx> it is used everywhere
2022-12-15T23:44:17 < catphish_> that might be a decent choice
2022-12-15T23:44:52 < catphish_> at least i've heard of OnSemi
2022-12-15T23:45:13 < catphish_> also jlc and kicad friendly :D
2022-12-15T23:49:19 < catphish_> according to the datasheet it's also compatible with the 1980's https://i.imgur.com/HqcanjP.png
--- Day changed pe joulu 16 2022
2022-12-16T00:02:03 < catphish_> MC34063 is only rated down to 0C, shame
2022-12-16T00:03:35 < catphish_> its more expensive friend the MC33063ADR is okay though
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2022-12-16T01:42:24 < hexo> hi guys, just wanted to check - is g070 with debug support as bad as f030?
2022-12-16T01:42:56 < hexo> am i gonna cry like a baby again? :D
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2022-12-16T01:43:34 < Steffanx-> What's bad with the f030?
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2022-12-16T02:03:55 < hexo> debug support :)
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2022-12-16T06:35:17 < qyx> really?
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2022-12-16T09:34:26 < bitmask> isnhttps://i.imgur.com/hUeQyfS.png
2022-12-16T09:34:29 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/hUeQyfS.png
2022-12-16T09:34:45 < bitmask> i think its time to start working on lighting and physically based rendering
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2022-12-16T11:59:18 < Steffanx-> What are you talking about hexo ?
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2022-12-16T14:32:00 < kaki> don't use switching converters from 80's
2022-12-16T14:35:26 < kaki> or through hole passives in automotive use
2022-12-16T14:35:54 < kaki> those will work themselfs loose and fly away
2022-12-16T14:37:15 < kaki> everything flat to the board
2022-12-16T14:38:28 < kaki> or hecking massive inductors tht or smd because of sub-ideal regulator
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2022-12-16T15:08:06 < qyx> grumki
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2022-12-16T15:58:35 < karlp> qyx: that max buck you were talking about, is that with "real" low Iq, unlike that diodes part you were moaning about?
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2022-12-16T16:14:56 < zyp> karlp, which one? some students I were mentoring for their bachelors' this spring used a MAX38650AANT+ which advertises an Iq of 390nA
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2022-12-16T16:57:16 < qyx> karlp: yep
2022-12-16T16:58:45 < qyx> zyp: oh yeah for a 6 V input part it's not uncommon
2022-12-16T16:59:18 < qyx> max25231 goesto 40 V or so
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2022-12-16T19:28:42 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20221216_192607__01.jpg   i'm not sure if i'm using this correctly
2022-12-16T19:39:54 < zyp> looks perfectly fine to me
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--- Day changed la joulu 17 2022
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2022-12-17T02:30:35 < catphish_> sometimes there's far too much choice of components
2022-12-17T02:31:09 < catphish_> i want a polarity protection diode, there's an insane degree of choice
2022-12-17T02:33:12 < zyp> a polarity protection diode? so in other words a diode?
2022-12-17T02:33:42 < zyp> and you're surprised that a lot of different diodes exist?
2022-12-17T02:35:18 < catphish_> zyp: i didn't say that
2022-12-17T02:35:32 < catphish_> did i say that?
2022-12-17T02:35:54 < catphish_> irritated, yes, but not surprised :)
2022-12-17T02:36:07 < zyp> let me give you a tip: there's two parameters that's interesting: currency capacity and forward drop (and the latter only if you don't have a lot of margin)
2022-12-17T02:36:26 < catphish_> actually i was looking at current capacity and reverse leakage
2022-12-17T02:36:32 < zyp> figure out what you need, filter the list by that, sort by price and grab the cheapest one with reasonable availability
2022-12-17T02:36:54 < catphish_> but i'm also thinking that i want a reasonably sane package
2022-12-17T02:36:58 < BrainDamage> reverse leakage should be in the nA range
2022-12-17T02:37:17 < BrainDamage> if your circuit is sensitive to nA reverse leakage ... you have bigger problems
2022-12-17T02:37:18 < fenugrec> 1n3595 has decent low leakage per $
2022-12-17T02:37:30 < catphish_> BrainDamage: that's why i'm looking at that figure, may are well into uA
2022-12-17T02:37:36 < fenugrec> (always very much a function of temperature , ofc)
2022-12-17T02:37:59 < zyp> catphish_, what are you gonna harm with microamps?
2022-12-17T02:38:43 < catphish_> zyp: well that's what i was about to ask, how much current is actually dangerous to ICs?
2022-12-17T02:38:51 < catphish_> i guess milliamps?
2022-12-17T02:39:13 < catphish_> enough to get them hot? or are there other risks?
2022-12-17T02:39:30 < BrainDamage> you'll need to charge up to a V or so the rail or the ics to conduct
2022-12-17T02:39:36 < zyp> if you're supplying digital electronics, there's gonna be a bunch of protection diodes in everything, so you'll have a ton of small paths for that reverse current to go
2022-12-17T02:40:00 < BrainDamage> and for that to happen, you might need mA current even
2022-12-17T02:40:06 < zyp> yeah
2022-12-17T02:40:22 < zyp> read injected current specs in some datasheets
2022-12-17T02:40:49 < BrainDamage> don't forget there'll be also a lot of components like electrolythic caps that will happily leak uA
2022-12-17T02:41:00 < BrainDamage> [in reverse]
2022-12-17T02:41:39 < catphish_> but yeah, there's just a baffling array of choice
2022-12-17T02:42:02 < catphish_> wanting "pretty much any diode" is great, but kind of annoying
2022-12-17T02:42:23 < BrainDamage> pick an arbitrary one, you have to pick a decent one, not the best one
2022-12-17T02:42:35 < zyp> why does it matter whether there's 20 or 2000 options? you're only gonna pick one anyway
2022-12-17T02:42:56 < zyp> and the one you want is usually the cheapest available suitable one
2022-12-17T02:43:03 < catphish_> if you find it that easy then you're luckier than i
2022-12-17T02:43:22 < zyp> this is literally how I pick parts
2022-12-17T02:43:23 < catphish_> these things are like 1c, i'm not even looking at the price
2022-12-17T02:43:36 < catphish_> when i'm this stuck i usually sort by stock
2022-12-17T02:43:48 < zyp> yeah, that's also a good measure
2022-12-17T02:43:51 < catphish_> i figure whatever has a million is stock is probably a popular choice
2022-12-17T02:44:01 < zyp> that's why I said reasonable availability earlier
2022-12-17T02:44:38 < zyp> open digikey, filter by criteria, order by price, pick the option with the largest stock on the first page
2022-12-17T02:45:13 < catphish_> M7, SMA, 1A, 1000V, 5uA leakage, seems like a reasonable default
2022-12-17T02:45:51 < zyp> M7?
2022-12-17T02:46:13 < zyp> also 1000V sounds overkill for reverse voltage protection
2022-12-17T02:46:24 < catphish_> M7 https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1810311713_MDD-Microdiode-Electronics--M7_C95872.pdf
2022-12-17T02:46:39 < catphish_> chinese general purpose rectifier
2022-12-17T02:47:38 < zyp> sure, why not
2022-12-17T02:48:23 < catphish_> JLC have 2.7 million of them :)
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2022-12-17T02:57:54 < qyx> with Vf of 2 V?
2022-12-17T03:14:32 < catphish_> 1.1V max
2022-12-17T03:14:46 < catphish_> turns out i probably want to use a mosfet though
2022-12-17T03:31:04 < Mangy_Dog> is there a simple way to check to see if a task is suspended or not in freertos?
2022-12-17T03:42:08 < rustyaxe> depends on your wattage. Ive got a few low power radios with mosfets in series to protect
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2022-12-17T11:25:14 < qyx> catphish_: beware Vgs max, use a zener
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2022-12-17T14:05:45 < josuah> qyx: a zener would short all extra current away? should a PTC resettable fuse be used as well to avoid damage then?
2022-12-17T14:06:00 < josuah> along with any "safety" zener
2022-12-17T14:11:01 < catphish_> josuah: no, in this circuit, the zener is used with a resistor to clamp the gate voltage of the mosfet
2022-12-17T14:12:10 < josuah> catphish_: thanks! signal, not power
2022-12-17T14:14:50 < catphish_> josuah: it looks like this: https://i.stack.imgur.com/CdBdf.png
2022-12-17T14:15:38 < josuah> thank you! I did not see the diagram in the backlog 
2022-12-17T14:15:39 < catphish_> that allows the negative rail to control the gate, but clamps it to within 7.5v
2022-12-17T14:15:46 < catphish_> josuah: it wasn't :)
2022-12-17T14:16:35 < catphish_> qyx probably assumed i'd be able to look up how to use a zener and a mosfet to build a reverse polarity protection circuit :)
2022-12-17T14:20:18 < catphish_> the specific challenge i have is that i want an stm32 to be able to measure the voltage of its own 24v supply
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2022-12-17T14:20:19 < josuah> so, does it act as some kind of regulator? increasing the impedance of the PMOS whenever above 7.5V, with a reset resistor to reopen it when <= 7.5V?
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2022-12-17T14:21:19 < catphish_> no, it just provides reverse polarity protection
2022-12-17T14:22:33 < catphish_> the zener is purely to prevent the gate voltage exceeding 20V and damaging the mosfet, apart from that, it does the same thing as this circuit: https://www.sunpower-uk.com/files/2014/07/What-is-Reverse-Voltage-Protection-2.jpg
2022-12-17T14:27:20 < qyx> josuah: yes the basic combined overvoltage and reverse voltage protection is a PPTC fuse in series and a unidir TVS, but I meant what catphish_ says, use a p-mos + clamp Vgs with a zener because he mentioned he want to protect a 24 V circuit
2022-12-17T14:28:03 < catphish_> essentially i want to build this: https://embedded-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/CarBattery_Block.png
2022-12-17T14:28:51 < catphish_> but i wanted to add reverse polarity protection, the problem is that i want to do so without (significantly) impacting the voltage at the ADC
2022-12-17T14:31:58 < josuah> looks like I have to discover the entire domain of power electronics
2022-12-17T14:32:15 < catphish_> i recommend starting by building an electric car :)
2022-12-17T14:32:18 < josuah> where failure paths are as much studied than the "happy path"
2022-12-17T14:32:29 < qyx> catphish_: lold
2022-12-17T14:32:32 < josuah> catphish_: a life-sized one? :D
2022-12-17T14:32:42 < catphish_> of course
2022-12-17T14:33:06 < josuah> with the second step is sending that said car in orbit?
2022-12-17T14:33:23 < catphish_> if you have the money, sure
2022-12-17T14:33:50 < catphish_> i only did 50% elon
2022-12-17T14:35:07 < josuah> never go full-elon
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2022-12-17T14:36:17 < josuah> I keep the idea of an electric car in a corner, thank you for the wee lesson about circuit protection!
2022-12-17T14:36:43 < catphish_> on that topic, i got a new board to play with this morning :) https://i.imgur.com/gGP5uSw.jpg
2022-12-17T14:36:59 < catphish_> josuah: inspiration: https://i.imgur.com/UenPwDE.jpg :)
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2022-12-17T14:38:15 < josuah> catphish_: is that the one you built?
2022-12-17T14:38:19 < catphish_> yeah
2022-12-17T14:38:30 < josuah> (I mean the inverter board ofc!) very nice! makes me want to play with
2022-12-17T14:38:41 < josuah> (joke)
2022-12-17T14:39:09 < josuah> impressed self-taught freshman is impressed
2022-12-17T14:39:27 < catphish_> lol, no i didn't build the board, that was a gift
2022-12-17T14:39:53 < catphish_> it's for STM32 control of a toyota prius inverter
2022-12-17T14:40:22  * josuah gives catphish_ a glass of inspiration https://paste.josuah.net/electronics/inspiration.jpg
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2022-12-17T14:41:33 < catphish_> that board will be combined wit these bits: https://i.imgur.com/LZuOu0k.jpg to make a testbench for experimenting with motor control algorithms
2022-12-17T14:41:56 < catphish_> i want somewhere to test new code before loading it into the car
2022-12-17T14:44:06 < josuah> makes much sense
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2022-12-17T16:15:37 < Steffanx-> That wireless module still males me cringe, catphish_ 
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2022-12-17T16:36:04 < qyx> is catphish_'s car suitable for everyday shopping?
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2022-12-17T17:06:51 < catphish> qyx: depends what you buy
2022-12-17T17:07:46 < catphish> if you buy a carton of milk, it's all good, it you buy a new ladder, it's not the ideal vehicle
2022-12-17T17:11:32 < jpa-> https://www.nestle.com.my/sites/g/files/pydnoa251/files/Everyday-Thumbs.jpg   it seems qyx was asking about milk
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2022-12-17T17:33:43 < zyp> catphish, what do you do to need buying new ladders so often?
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2022-12-17T20:40:50 < catphish_> a diode and a relay would make a good reverse polarity protection! but probably excessive and wasteful
2022-12-17T20:49:08 < qyx> heh
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2022-12-17T21:06:47 < Laurence_b> what if I told you the white rabbit is the adrenochrome molecule?
2022-12-17T21:06:54 < fenugrec> depends, there are small latching relays
2022-12-17T21:06:56 < Laurence_b> Musk is Q confirmed
2022-12-17T21:08:08 < fenugrec> IIRC about 5ms of 100-200mW to operate
2022-12-17T21:16:59 < catphish_> facebook is getting a tiy bit too creepy for my liking now. every time my wife show an interest in something on facebook, i get related content in my feed
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2022-12-17T21:39:57 < bitmask> grrr
2022-12-17T21:39:58 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/GLBHIyX
2022-12-17T21:46:43 < catphish_> looks like you need to get better at math
2022-12-17T21:47:05 < mawk> I can tutor you if you want maths
2022-12-17T21:47:23 < mawk> let's calculate normals together
2022-12-17T21:49:30 < zyp> catphish, if you're gonna go with excessive, another good reverse polarity protection is just a full bridge rectifier, then there is no incorrect polarity
2022-12-17T21:54:56 < catphish_> zyp: diodes are no good sadly
2022-12-17T21:55:34 < mawk> nobody likes diodee
2022-12-17T21:55:36 < mawk> s
2022-12-17T21:55:36 < zyp> tell that to all the full bridge rectifiers that exists
2022-12-17T21:56:10 < catphish_> the problem i have is that i want to measure the supply voltage
2022-12-17T21:56:25 < catphish_> so if i stick a diode at the supply, it's going to mess with the voltage
2022-12-17T21:57:00 < mawk> it can be low voltage drop
2022-12-17T21:57:04 < mawk> if you use a fet and not a diode
2022-12-17T21:57:05 < zyp> so what?
2022-12-17T21:57:06 < catphish_> so i need either a perfect diode, or some other way to protect an ADC against negative voltage
2022-12-17T21:57:28 < mawk> then put the diode in parallel no?
2022-12-17T21:57:37 < zyp> you're gonna divide the voltage for the ADC, right?
2022-12-17T21:57:39 < mawk> to redirect the current away if it gets negative
2022-12-17T21:57:55 < catphish_> actually i have a question about that
2022-12-17T21:58:14 < zyp> the ADC likely already has a diode to ground on every input
2022-12-17T21:58:20 < catphish_> lots of people seem to use a pair of diodes to protect ADCs (one to negative rail and one ot positive rail)
2022-12-17T21:58:32 < zyp> indeed
2022-12-17T21:58:44 < catphish_> but... datasheet specifies absolute mainmum as -0.3v
2022-12-17T21:58:50 < catphish_> and i can't find a diode that small
2022-12-17T21:59:04 < catphish_> so i don't understand how that can work
2022-12-17T21:59:10 < zyp> that's because you're not looking at schottkey diodes
2022-12-17T22:00:05 < catphish_> ah interesting, somehow i didn't realise they were that good
2022-12-17T22:00:09 < catphish_> that might be all i need then
2022-12-17T22:00:38 < mawk> you can also use mosfets as diodes for an ever lower drop
2022-12-17T22:01:03 < catphish_> mawk: yeah my previous plan was exactly that
2022-12-17T22:03:03 < catphish_> and tbh that still seems like a great option for general protection, but for the ADC to measure the supply voltage, schottkey diode clamping seems the better choice
2022-12-17T22:03:07 < catphish_> how much do i owe you zyp?
2022-12-17T22:03:45 < mawk> but how is the ADC powered
2022-12-17T22:03:51 < mawk> with the same supply you're measuring?
2022-12-17T22:04:09 < mawk> the supply cannot go below itself, right? so why do you need protecting
2022-12-17T22:06:07 < qyx> catphish_: datasheet also specified a maximum current you can inject to an input
2022-12-17T22:06:18 < qyx> *specifies
2022-12-17T22:06:21 < catphish_> qyx: interesting
2022-12-17T22:06:31 < zyp> I mentioned this yesterday
2022-12-17T22:06:49 < qyx> so if you put a resistor in series, everything is okay
2022-12-17T22:07:04 < catphish_> zyp: you did, i didn't look at the time, but maybe that's sufficient
2022-12-17T22:07:36 < zyp> max injected current and max negative voltage is pretty much the specs for the internal protection diode to ground on that pin
2022-12-17T22:07:59 < mawk> catphish_: ??¿¿
2022-12-17T22:08:02 < catphish_> mawk: to clarify, yes it's powered from the same supply, ideally i could just protect the whole supply and the job's done
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2022-12-17T22:08:33 < catphish_> mawk: basically i'm building this: https://embedded-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/CarBattery_Block.png
2022-12-17T22:08:47 < mawk> ah
2022-12-17T22:08:53 < mawk> and it's reverse polarity you're worried about then
2022-12-17T22:09:00 < catphish_> yes
2022-12-17T22:09:12 < mawk> isn't it pretty much impossible to reverse polarity with a connector such as the cigarette lighter connector?
2022-12-17T22:09:30 < mawk> you can just count on the fact nobody is going to even achieve reversing polarity and be done with it
2022-12-17T22:10:04 < catphish_> reverse polarity protection needs to 1) prevent the regulator (dc-dc converter) blowing up and 2) prevent the ADC from blowing up 3) not drop voltage prior to the ADC
2022-12-17T22:10:32 < zyp> you can also just put a fuse on the input and a clamping diode after that
2022-12-17T22:10:45 < catphish_> mawk: not my diagram i'm not actually using a cigarette lighter, customer will be responsible for wiring, i want it robust
2022-12-17T22:10:57 < catphish_> zyp: yeah, suicide diode was very tempting
2022-12-17T22:11:08 < zyp> normal case, you only get whatever drop there is a cross the fuse, fuckup case, diode blows the fuse
2022-12-17T22:11:20 < mawk> o
2022-12-17T22:11:32 < zyp> if you want it self-recoverable, switch to a polyfuse
2022-12-17T22:11:51 < zyp> I've done that
2022-12-17T22:12:13 < catphish_> zyp: i will definitely consider that, but if i can do it with a combination of diodes only, i'll be happier
2022-12-17T22:12:34 < zyp> if you use a unidirectional TVS diode for the clamping, it'll protect against both overvoltage and reverse polarity
2022-12-17T22:13:11 < PaulFertser> Talking about fuses, do you know microwave ovens have a special interlock system and so if the door or switches inside get a bit loose, the switches get activated in the wrong order and the fuse blows and the oven looks dead?
2022-12-17T22:13:53 < catphish_> i've heard of it
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2022-12-17T22:17:12 < catphish_> on an unrelated note, is dropping an electrical appliance in a bathtub with you actually dangerous? i feel like current would have no cause to leave the appliance
2022-12-17T22:17:28 < zyp> have you heard about ground?
2022-12-17T22:18:07 < catphish_> i suppose some current will head towards the pipework to ground
2022-12-17T22:18:37 < zyp> then again, most bathtubs I've seen have been electrically isolated from ground
2022-12-17T22:19:14 < catphish_> i couldn't say whether mine was grounded or not
2022-12-17T22:19:25 < catphish_> maybe i'll throw a toaster in and see
2022-12-17T22:19:41 < BrainDamage> if the water tap is open you'll have a pathway
2022-12-17T22:19:51 < PaulFertser> According to some russian standards all conductive elements must be either isolated (and tap water is considered to be an isolator) or connected to a single common PE point right there in the bathroom.
2022-12-17T22:20:32 < catphish_> in UK all metal pipework has to be bonded to the main house PE i think
2022-12-17T22:20:33 < PaulFertser> So the bathtubs there are usually connected to PE.
2022-12-17T22:20:48 < catphish_> but not all pipework is metal
2022-12-17T22:22:12 < PaulFertser> You also have an integrated RCD in every socket in the UK, right? So the risk is much lower compared to many old buildings in the other parts of the world where there's often no RCD at all.
2022-12-17T22:24:14 < catphish_> PaulFertser: not in the sockets, but yes, all sockets in reasonably recent installs will have RCD at panel
2022-12-17T22:24:45 < catphish_> so yeah, if any current did go to ground, which it absolutely should, it would turn off immediatelly
2022-12-17T22:24:57 < PaulFertser> It doesn't take much current to cause cardiac fibrillation so unfortunately a toster in a bathtub is a real danger (without RCD).
2022-12-17T22:25:02 < catphish_> i was kinda pretending that mechanism didn't exist for the purpose of my question though
2022-12-17T22:25:11 < rustyaxe> The question is
2022-12-17T22:25:26 < rustyaxe> Why the fuck are we stopping dumbasses who take a toaster in the bathroom from dying before they reproduce?
2022-12-17T22:25:49 < catphish_> that's not the sole reason for RCDs
2022-12-17T22:38:06 < qyx> here all metal parts need to be connected to PE, incl. piping and bathhub
2022-12-17T22:39:26 < jpa-> rustyaxe: because self-pronounced "smart" people don't reproduce eother :)
2022-12-17T22:39:50 < catphish_> i'm not sure about the case of a metal tap connected with plastic pipe, i'm not aware of any requirement there
2022-12-17T22:40:33 < qyx> I guess the code inspector doesn't care
2022-12-17T22:40:52 < qyx> if he sees a piece of metal and measure it and it says open loop, it is simply wrong
2022-12-17T22:41:27 < jpa-> catphish_: i think the dangerous moment would be picking the wet appliance up from bathtub
2022-12-17T22:42:12 < catphish_> jpa-: actually that reminds me of something that's bothered me for a lone time
2022-12-17T22:42:50 < qyx> are you studying the feasibility of electrocutig during a bath?
2022-12-17T22:42:55 < catphish_> why does touching a live conductor give such substantial shocks to people indoors? i would assume most flooring was a reasonably good insulator
2022-12-17T22:43:18 < catphish_> *long time
2022-12-17T22:43:34 < jpa-> people form capacitors with ground & concrete
2022-12-17T22:43:59 < catphish_> interesting
2022-12-17T22:44:00 < qyx> we shoul use DC
2022-12-17T22:44:28 < catphish_> i actually for my first ever electric shock this year
2022-12-17T22:44:43 < jpa-> but it is substantial in feeling only, to actually get dangerous shock you need better contact
2022-12-17T22:45:22 < catphish_> i picked up a 60v battery and touched both terminals to my arm
2022-12-17T22:46:25 < catphish_> i was actually surprised how much it hurt, i guess because the skin there is thin and the contacts were quite close together
2022-12-17T22:47:20 < jpa-> as a kid, i had learned to test 9V batteries with my tongue.. i didn't test the 24V power supply twice :)
2022-12-17T22:47:57 < qyx> I never did that
2022-12-17T22:48:04 < qyx> I feared
2022-12-17T22:48:18 < qyx> of any contact with electricity
2022-12-17T22:48:20 < jpa-> time to try now
2022-12-17T22:52:00 < catphish_> i've always been super cautious of electricity, hence how i managed to get to age 35 before getting even a minor shock
2022-12-17T22:52:46 < catphish_> my wife got a shock a few weeks ago from a wet light switch, i was puzzles how that was possible, as she was standing on a ceramic tiled floor
2022-12-17T23:11:25 < BrainDamage> capacitive coupling
2022-12-17T23:12:18 < BrainDamage> jam one probe of your mm on PE and grab the other lead, you'll get a nF or so capacitance
2022-12-17T23:12:24 < BrainDamage> depending on where you live
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2022-12-17T23:54:34 < catphish_> makes sense
--- Day changed su joulu 18 2022
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2022-12-18T03:02:22 < catphish_> on the subject of protecting ADC pins from negative voltage, the datasheet allow 5mA but also recommnds clamping to GND with a Schottky diode. what's not clear to me though is how i know whether any particular diode will conduct before the stm32 does
2022-12-18T03:04:15 < catphish_> i think the answer is: input -> resistor -> diode -> resistor -> stm32
2022-12-18T03:04:46 < catphish_> this will bias the voltage and hence current into the external protection diode
2022-12-18T03:23:46 < zyp> I think you're overthinking it
2022-12-18T03:24:00 < zyp> datasheet said GND - 0.3V, right?
2022-12-18T03:24:35 < zyp> that means if you clamp it with a diode with a Vf lower than 0.3, you're safe
2022-12-18T03:25:45 < zyp> to put it another way; ensure you stay below 0.3V or below 5mA
2022-12-18T03:33:02 < catphish_> the complexity here is that Vf isn't a fixed value in any diode
2022-12-18T03:35:57 < catphish_> looking at a common choice, the BAT54, the voltage is already 320mV max at 1mA, so to use that diode, to keep voltage within 300mV, current already has to be much less then 5mA, in which case the diode is pointless
2022-12-18T03:38:32 < catphish_> although better diodes exist, like BAT60, 320mv max at 10mA
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2022-12-18T08:55:06 < jpa-> catphish_: when measuring higher voltages, you can also have    resistor -> diode clamp -> resistor divider    and then if you clamp at e.g. -0.6V, that gets divided down
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2022-12-18T12:57:29 < benishor> I am close to pulling my hair out
2022-12-18T12:57:32 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/8TkPbtxA
2022-12-18T12:57:59 < benishor> context: inside a HAL_SAI_Rx(Half)CpltCallback callback
2022-12-18T12:58:15 < benishor> works = I get the expected signal on the output
2022-12-18T12:58:48 < benishor> does not work = I get lots of usb harmonics and fucked up signals on the output
2022-12-18T12:59:20 < benishor> anyone got an idea as to *why*?
2022-12-18T13:01:08 < benishor> it's basically the same thing split in two passes
2022-12-18T13:01:17 < benishor> why would it yield different results?
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2022-12-18T13:15:28 < zyp> maybe you've got a race and the change changes timing slightly enough to fuck it up?
2022-12-18T13:22:05 < benishor> this should be easy to test
2022-12-18T13:22:19 < benishor> use the version which works and add an extra loop doing nothing
2022-12-18T13:22:46 < zyp> and the other way around
2022-12-18T13:23:03 < zyp> stuff can break both because it takes too long or because it takes too short
2022-12-18T13:23:16 < benishor> fuck. yes. this seems to be it
2022-12-18T13:23:58 < benishor> either that or I screweed the order of my buffers
2022-12-18T13:24:01 < benishor> and I think that' sit
2022-12-18T13:24:57 < benishor> I always get confused about RxCpltCallback and RxHalfCpltCallback
2022-12-18T13:26:59 < catphish> jpa-: that's an interesting idea, thanks
2022-12-18T13:29:39 < catphish> however, i hope that an ADC needs nowhere near 5mA of signal, so a high value divider is actually probably 100% of the solution
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2022-12-18T14:03:14 < nerozero> Hi there, trying to work with USB 
2022-12-18T14:03:47 < catphish> hello :)
2022-12-18T14:03:48 < nerozero> facing issue, if I dont initialize ID pin, USB Device doesn't seems to work 
2022-12-18T14:04:28 < nerozero> I'm using - tinyusb library 
2022-12-18T14:05:14 < nerozero> The usb is connections only D+,D- no ID or Vbus sensing involved 
2022-12-18T14:06:39 < catphish> we had this conversation recently, iirc by default the OTG chip requires vbus
2022-12-18T14:06:46 < catphish> but i think you can override it somewhere
2022-12-18T14:08:46 < nerozero> here is my configuration: https://bsd.to/xviG
2022-12-18T14:08:47 < catphish> nerozero: Nov 25 20:56:46 <zyp>	the chips with the dwc_otg cores expects vbus hooked up to PA9 (but sensing can be turned off/overridden)
2022-12-18T14:09:08 < nerozero> USB_OTG_FS->GCCFG |= USB_OTG_GCCFG_NOVBUSSENS;
2022-12-18T14:09:08 < catphish> ah you already disabled it
2022-12-18T14:09:08 < nerozero> USB_OTG_FS->GCCFG &= ~USB_OTG_GCCFG_VBUSBSEN;
2022-12-18T14:09:08 < nerozero> USB_OTG_FS->GCCFG &= ~USB_OTG_GCCFG_VBUSASEN;
2022-12-18T14:09:16 < nerozero> this is how to disable vbus sensing 
2022-12-18T14:09:19 < nerozero> but !!!! 
2022-12-18T14:09:25 < nerozero> ID pin cause the issue 
2022-12-18T14:09:48 < nerozero> it is not connected to anything, but if i dont initialize it - usb doesn't seems to work 
2022-12-18T14:10:01 < catphish> i'm afraid i can only refer you do the manual as i've never used the OTG chips myself
2022-12-18T14:10:02 < nerozero> i need that pin for UART
2022-12-18T14:10:21 < nerozero> no, i dont use OTG
2022-12-18T14:10:29 < nerozero> i need basic FS Device
2022-12-18T14:11:46 < catphish> i mean the whole chip is OTG
2022-12-18T14:11:55 < nerozero> ah .. yes
2022-12-18T14:12:04 < catphish> the device-only chips are simpler
2022-12-18T14:12:29 < nerozero> but that is all i got for the moment
2022-12-18T14:13:32 < nerozero> catphish, anyway thanks for reply 
2022-12-18T14:16:44 < catphish> good luck, plenty of people here know it much better than me
2022-12-18T14:19:05 < nerozero> But only you had replied :) It deserve a separate thanks :) 
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2022-12-18T14:19:56 < zyp> ID pin is used for sensing whether an A or B plug is plugged in, A plugs ground it and B plugs leave it floating
2022-12-18T14:20:26 < zyp> so initializing it on the chip but leaving it floating will always detect as a B plug plugged in
2022-12-18T14:20:29 < nerozero> zyp, yes, my issue to use pin for UART, and disable this feature 
2022-12-18T14:20:46 < zyp> yeah, you'll want to force the USB controller into B mode
2022-12-18T14:20:50 < nerozero> can I force it somehow internally 
2022-12-18T14:20:57 < nerozero> zyp, thanks 
2022-12-18T14:21:13 < nerozero> any hints ? the manual for USB is rather long :) 
2022-12-18T14:21:15 < zyp> which chip is this?
2022-12-18T14:21:22 < nerozero> stm32f407
2022-12-18T14:22:08 < zyp> GUSBCFG.FDMOD
2022-12-18T14:22:18 < nerozero> THANKS !!! 
2022-12-18T14:23:54 < zyp> np :)
2022-12-18T14:25:23 < nerozero> zyp, bless u !!!!! 
2022-12-18T14:25:44 < nerozero> I SPENT 2 days just to find ID pin was the issue ! 
2022-12-18T14:25:58 < nerozero> thank you so much !!!!!! 
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2022-12-18T15:18:29 < josuah> nerozero: the 2 months might not have ben worthless, as they have been spent likely fixing other things, or at least learning more about USB on STM32s
2022-12-18T15:18:57 < nerozero> 2 month ? 
2022-12-18T15:19:20 < josuah> woops I meant 2 days obviously!
2022-12-18T15:19:24 < nerozero> :)
2022-12-18T15:19:30 < josuah> thank god!
2022-12-18T15:19:58 < nerozero> yeah, learned quite a lot during tracing that issue 
2022-12-18T15:19:59 < josuah> most of what I do with USB is putting a CH340G in front and get the UART out of it :)
2022-12-18T15:20:18 < josuah> so yeah, still got some learning to do
2022-12-18T15:20:33 < nerozero> nah, I need something most sophisticated
2022-12-18T15:20:41 < josuah> maybe what I need is dive down a bug on my own
2022-12-18T15:20:42 < nerozero> not a generic CDC
2022-12-18T15:20:57 < josuah> nerozero: btw, do you drive the registers directly rather than using some SDK?
2022-12-18T15:21:08 < josuah> or was that to tweak manually some feature?
2022-12-18T15:21:20 < nerozero> try tinyusb library, I found it way more flexible  than ST usb things 
2022-12-18T15:21:28 < nerozero> ^^
2022-12-18T15:21:40 < josuah> tinyusb is very nice, it taught me USB, really
2022-12-18T15:21:49 < josuah> I mean what about all the peripherals?
2022-12-18T15:22:07 < nerozero> there is way to much to do manually, in case of USB. 
2022-12-18T15:22:18 < josuah> UART, interrupts vectors, timers...
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2022-12-18T15:22:31 < nerozero> I have my own library 
2022-12-18T15:22:35 < josuah> true! USB is really software-driven
2022-12-18T15:22:42 < nerozero> adding some code for years
2022-12-18T15:22:48 < josuah> that looks kind of more frequent with STM32 than other kinds of MCus
2022-12-18T15:23:05 < josuah> libopencm3 would be the "self-made" library without the need to write it oneself
2022-12-18T15:23:21 < nerozero> I moved form AVR ~ 10 years ago
2022-12-18T15:23:24 < josuah> nerozero: its own feels good! no magic involved in-between
2022-12-18T15:23:46 < josuah> and AVR API is just the register map, makes sense
2022-12-18T15:24:08 < nerozero> dont say that, after couple of years, you start wondering how did I done that back in that time :)
2022-12-18T15:25:31 < josuah> had to choose between being stuck with the devil or alone?
2022-12-18T15:26:12 < nerozero> I guess devil is a good alternative sometimes :)
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2022-12-18T19:34:05 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFkQ9jYVXEAYt0jJ.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2022-12-18T19:36:59 < Laurence_b> sounds like someone got triggered
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2022-12-18T20:38:29 < karlp> was that person's name startingwith lolrence and ending in blagster?
2022-12-18T20:49:03 < jpa-> catphish: high input impedance to ADC causes offset if you don't add a parallel capacitor
2022-12-18T20:49:15 < jpa-> catphish: but a parallel capacitor is good idea for noise rejection anyway
2022-12-18T20:55:23 < qyx> offset?
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2022-12-18T21:32:01 < catphish_> jpa-: isn't the charge time controllable?
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2022-12-18T21:34:07 < catphish_> it would be nice to know precisely how much current the ADC needs though, and at what sampling speeds
2022-12-18T21:34:32 < zyp> you'll have to go read the datasheet again then
2022-12-18T21:34:52 < catphish_> i shall
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2022-12-18T21:51:57 < catphish_> the datasheet has a nice formula for maximum external impedance
2022-12-18T21:55:46 < catphish_> 10k would be fine, but if i want my divider to waste less power, i'll probably want a buffer capacitor
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2022-12-18T22:30:07 < jpa-> qyx: well i guess scale error, and not fully linear either
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2022-12-18T22:35:49 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RVLim5tVwU&ab_channel=colinfurze
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--- Day changed ma joulu 19 2022
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2022-12-19T00:56:10 < kaki> sup night
2022-12-19T00:56:20 < kaki> sync?
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2022-12-19T01:04:38 < karlp> so, there's shit like TPS2514 that is for supporting "DCP" which then, precludes running USB?
2022-12-19T01:05:06 < karlp> is there a thing I can hook up to my hub ports to let downstream plain A shits knwo that they're allowed to draw more power that still lets USB travel?
2022-12-19T01:10:07 < zyp> you want a CDP, not a DCP
2022-12-19T01:11:33 < zyp> > A CDP shall output a voltage of VDM_SRC on its D- line when it senses a voltage greater than VDAT_REF but less than VLGC on its D+ line when not connected to a peripheral. A CDP shall not output a voltage of VDM_SRC on its D- line from the time that the peripheral is connected, to the time that the peripheral is disconnected.
2022-12-19T01:11:58 < karlp> yeah, was just reading the datasheet of TPS2546 that seems to allow CDP at 1.5A.
2022-12-19T01:13:40 < karlp> i plugged myu phone into my hub and it only draws 500ma.
2022-12-19T01:13:53 < karlp> but the power supply and a load tester will happily deliver 2A to it.
2022-12-19T01:14:11 < karlp> seems like it should be "easy" to add that functionallity
2022-12-19T01:14:20 < karlp> seeing as I put this massive overkill power supply on it.
2022-12-19T01:16:04 < karlp> though, unless I find the right china part, no. not adding $1 per port for TI parts :)
2022-12-19T01:16:10 < zyp> so, did you check whether your hub chip already supports this? bunch of them do
2022-12-19T01:16:26 < zyp> which one did you pick?
2022-12-19T01:17:01 < zyp> hmm, 2507 doesn't
2022-12-19T01:19:28 < karlp> no, I've not seen it mentioned in any of the hub chips I looked at honestly? not built in anyway?
2022-12-19T01:19:41 < karlp> I'm using 2517, for 7 ports, which is.... that part only.
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2022-12-19T01:21:04 < zyp> looks like you need to go up to something like 2534, and there's no corresponding 2537, so you're out of luck there
2022-12-19T01:21:11 < zyp> unless you pair two
2022-12-19T01:22:01 < karlp> huh, cool, yeah, that sorts out this stuff automatically.
2022-12-19T01:22:16 < karlp> guess I should just ignore this then.
2022-12-19T01:22:37 < karlp> the whole original point was just 500ma but switchable for doing dev boards,
2022-12-19T01:22:58 < karlp> and if it's not phones, that negotiate properly, but dev boards that just take, then it's fine anyway, they go up to ~2A.
2022-12-19T01:23:10 < zyp> indeed
2022-12-19T01:23:37 < karlp> usb2534 also adds the endpoitn for usb2i2c, so you can program you eeprom via the hub directly :)
2022-12-19T01:24:57 < karlp> china seems to hav eplenty of DCP chips, harder to find the CDP support at least.
2022-12-19T01:26:33 < zyp> that's because you buy a hub with CDP support if you want it
2022-12-19T01:28:26 < karlp> sounds reasonable.
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2022-12-19T09:06:13 < qyx> karlp: you are over-chinising it so much that it will not be buildable in the rest of the world
2022-12-19T09:06:34 < qyx> and for small series it doesn't matter
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2022-12-19T09:07:55 < qyx> idk if oshw at all but if I can't source all parts on dk/mouser/farnell, I will not build such device
2022-12-19T09:08:16 < qyx> I would not, sorry
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2022-12-19T09:38:09 < zyp> why not just LCSC?
2022-12-19T09:38:43 < zyp> if karlp picks parts because they're available at JLCPCB, they'll be available for direct purchase at LCSC too
2022-12-19T09:42:41 < jpa-> or just buy the cheap assembled boards from karlp ;)
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2022-12-19T10:09:18 < Steffanx-> Karlpcb.is \o/ 
2022-12-19T10:09:31 < Steffanx-> Is shipping out of .is a hell too? 
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2022-12-19T11:39:28 < karlp> yes, it would be a nightmare.
2022-12-19T11:39:45 < karlp> I'm somewhat considering the educational experience of running a shop
2022-12-19T11:39:51 < qyx> for me, lcsc is hard, import from is is hard too
2022-12-19T11:39:51 < karlp> but .... niche products only.
2022-12-19T11:41:31 < jpa-> we need to create the ##stm32 shipping center in netherlands
2022-12-19T11:41:45 < jpa-> apparently nl post has teleport
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2022-12-19T12:11:46 < josuah> > ##stm32 shipping center
2022-12-19T12:12:27 < josuah> I'd like to try something at a local hackerspace: announcing my inventory and inviting others to do the same, much saving on shipping costs during prototyping (5 parts this, 2 parts that)
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2022-12-19T12:15:55 < jpa-> i've just been doing pooled orders to digikey, pretty easy to get past the 50 EUR free shipping limit
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2022-12-19T12:18:12 < josuah> > pooled orders
2022-12-19T12:18:31 < josuah> do you mean add items to an order list, and trigger an order once in a while? that'd work
2022-12-19T12:19:32 < jpa-> i usually just announce that i'll order in a few days, and if someone has stuff to buy they send a list to me
2022-12-19T12:21:18 < qyx> meh I usually get over 50€ and I don't really know how
2022-12-19T12:22:18 < josuah> jpa-: oh right this way around! thanks for the note
2022-12-19T12:23:36 < jpa-> qyx: it just means you don't order often enough!
2022-12-19T12:24:48 < BrainDamage> you need to get on a first name basis with the mail persons with the stream of packages
2022-12-19T12:30:03 < qyx> hows nordic storage
2022-12-19T12:30:25 < qyx> I heard you can store plant seeds feasibly
2022-12-19T12:30:39 < qyx> is hetzner .fi storage location ok too?
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2022-12-19T15:29:57 < kaki> qyx: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4FurO8GQSM
2022-12-19T15:36:12 < kaki> qyx: Finnish cities are increasingly heated by servers
2022-12-19T15:37:13 < kaki> idk percentages or absolute amounts but increasingly!
2022-12-19T15:41:38 < josuah> kaki: works a bit less nicely in summer maybe
2022-12-19T15:41:58 < kaki> some heat is needed in summer too
2022-12-19T15:42:28 < josuah> that is true!
2022-12-19T15:42:59 < josuah> so many things in the industry use heat in the process as well
2022-12-19T15:43:35 < kaki> there are now underground caves full of water
2022-12-19T15:43:42 < kaki> heat batteries
2022-12-19T15:44:14 < kaki> and massive heat pumps are utilized
2022-12-19T15:44:35 < kaki> apparently they store some heat during summer to caves now
2022-12-19T15:46:30 < kaki> bet it wont last to winter but the idea must be that delays the start of boilers
2022-12-19T15:47:08 < qyx> kaki: \o/
2022-12-19T15:47:53 < kaki> if you can delay start of boilers long enough then it's summer again
2022-12-19T15:48:14 < kaki> that would require underground lake
2022-12-19T15:50:07 < kaki> local city bio boiler added some 1700cubic meter storage to their system
2022-12-19T15:50:17 < kaki> paid off in 1 year
2022-12-19T15:50:46 < kaki> as the plant can bias between heat generation and electricity generation
2022-12-19T15:51:44 < kaki> and the price difference of electricity seems to be 20c during one day
2022-12-19T15:52:32 < qyx> yeah I plan to do it too in my future sheep-land
2022-12-19T15:52:57 < kaki> are you becoming farmer?
2022-12-19T15:53:15 < josuah> I did not suspect heat could be stored efficiently
2022-12-19T15:53:28 < kaki> unless it's used as heat
2022-12-19T15:53:46 < kaki> and in rather short duration
2022-12-19T15:54:02 < josuah> I think kings of France, in their full ego, had the first ice cream by storing blocks of ice underground from winter over to summer
2022-12-19T15:54:35 < kaki> frozen milk please
2022-12-19T15:55:10 < kaki> they poured milk over ice cube and then shaved the frozen layer of milk off or something
2022-12-19T16:01:48 < kaki> josuah: same king that died by beheading?
2022-12-19T16:02:09 < josuah> I am not sure, let me check...
2022-12-19T16:03:20 < josuah> > Some sources describe ice cream-like foods as originating in Persia as far back as 550 BC
2022-12-19T16:03:21 < josuah> > -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream#Early_frozen_desserts
2022-12-19T16:03:41 < josuah> to begin with, French like to claim they invented everything, nothing new here...
2022-12-19T16:04:02 < kaki> everything was invented in persia
2022-12-19T16:05:48 < josuah> > Elias Ashmole described the dishes served at the Feast of St George at Windsor in for Charles II in 1671 and included 'one plate of ice cream'.[19] The only table at the banquet with ice cream on it was that of the King.
2022-12-19T16:05:52 < josuah> > -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream#England
2022-12-19T16:06:00 < josuah> looks like once again French are being French :D
2022-12-19T16:06:46 < josuah> -> England, not France listed here
2022-12-19T16:16:01 < benishor> is there an easy way to get the list of symbols in a binary ordered by size?
2022-12-19T16:16:40 < benishor> I'm trying to see where exactly the bulk of my elf is going
2022-12-19T16:17:59 < benishor> ah yes. `arm-none-eabi-nm --print-size --size-sort` does the trick
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2022-12-19T18:55:38 < benishor> `arm_abs_f32.c.obj uses VFP register arguments, custom.elf does not`
2022-12-19T18:55:47 < benishor> can anyone explain the error?
2022-12-19T18:56:46 < jpa-> hard vs. soft float ABI probably
2022-12-19T18:57:02 < jpa-> whether float data is passed in regular registers or in FPU registers
2022-12-19T19:01:09 < benishor> jpa-: thank you
2022-12-19T19:02:15 < benishor> any way of finding out the proper -mfpu setting for a chip?
2022-12-19T19:02:42 < Xogium> bit OT but maybe people know if there are such things... Do usb keys with write protect feature exist ?
2022-12-19T19:03:12 < Xogium> a bit like the switch on sd card, or maybe even some special register you write to that prevent you from ever modifying the content again ?
2022-12-19T19:05:50 < jpa-> Xogium: yes, though they are not very common
2022-12-19T19:06:04 < jpa-> https://www.amazon.com/Kanguru-Flash-Physical-Protect-switch/dp/B008OGNM8E  e.g. this one
2022-12-19T19:07:08 < benishor> Xogium: just curious, what is the use case?
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2022-12-19T19:08:47 < Xogium> benishor: oh it's because I want to share files to friend and don't want them to accidentally erase them, they aren't very tech savy
2022-12-19T19:09:21 < Xogium> I offered them a zip file to uncompressed and they didn't understand
2022-12-19T19:09:27 < fenugrec> keep a local copy, if they erase the files, they can do the walk of shame to come back and get the files again
2022-12-19T19:10:28 < Xogium> fenugrec: I need to get a bell like the one in GoT then ;)
2022-12-19T19:10:41 < benishor> Xogium: share a google drive link with them 
2022-12-19T19:10:47 < benishor> or dropbox or whatever
2022-12-19T19:10:52 < Xogium> benishor: they don't even know how to use this
2022-12-19T19:11:01 < benishor> well, they receive a link and they click it
2022-12-19T19:12:01 < Xogium> I thought google made zip files from folders ? Huh wait did I mix that one up with nextcloud ?
2022-12-19T19:13:33 < Xogium> dropbox is fun though, it still has that bug I spotted years ago
2022-12-19T19:13:43 < Xogium> I thought they would have fixed by now...
2022-12-19T19:14:02 < Xogium> if you get the 2 gb only account and want to transfer something that's more than 2 gb, just zip it
2022-12-19T19:14:21 < Xogium> dropbox will complain you don't have the space to store the file but will upload it anyway
2022-12-19T19:14:49 < benishor> jpa-: any other way I can get that error? I am compiling all files with the very same -mfpu and -mfloat-abi flags
2022-12-19T19:15:13 < benishor> Xogium: nice bug/feature :D
2022-12-19T19:15:16 < Xogium> I got a 200 gb zip archive from a friend who only has the 2 gb plan
2022-12-19T19:15:53 < benishor> sometimes www.wetransfer.com is an option
2022-12-19T19:15:58 < Xogium> yeah I found that rather cool
2022-12-19T19:16:00 < jpa-> benishor: so both arm_abs_f32.c.obj and custom.elf were compiled by you? put the compile commands and linker command on pastebin
2022-12-19T19:16:01 < Xogium> :D
2022-12-19T19:17:22 < Xogium> ah true I forgot about that service
2022-12-19T19:17:47 < Xogium> then again, 6 weeks ago this person didn't know how to even turn on a computer
2022-12-19T19:18:00 < Xogium> so... yeah, trying to go slowly with them :p
2022-12-19T19:18:39 < benishor> jpa-: https://hq.scene.ro/build_log.txt <- rather large
2022-12-19T19:18:46 < benishor> everything is compiled by me, yes
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2022-12-19T19:20:23 < Xogium> but they understand the logic behind computers surprisingly well, it's just the actual use that's confusing. Like they caught on pretty early that the cpu was a bit like the brain
2022-12-19T19:20:47 < jpa-> benishor: so at what point do you get the error?
2022-12-19T19:20:57 < benishor> https://asciinema.org/a/Pv7As8GBxb9UyHQm9D6JrIxev
2022-12-19T19:21:19 < benishor> sorry for the long intro
2022-12-19T19:21:28 < benishor> compilation works, linking fails
2022-12-19T19:21:54 < jpa-> benishor: are you sure you are supposed to link all those files?
2022-12-19T19:22:09 < jpa-> are you using renesas, sony, and st USB hardware in same firmware?
2022-12-19T19:22:20 < benishor> yeah, I didn't have a problem before. they get discarded by not being used
2022-12-19T19:22:36 < benishor> but you are right, of course, that's an optimisation
2022-12-19T19:22:47 < jpa-> i assume you have tried removing the build folder already?
2022-12-19T19:22:52 < benishor> yes
2022-12-19T19:23:04 < jpa-> what changed between it working and not working?
2022-12-19T19:23:06 < benishor> the error is fresh, as I was messing with the build script
2022-12-19T19:23:25 < benishor> I introduced a mix of c and c++ (it was pure C before that)
2022-12-19T19:23:35 < benishor> and messed with clib
2022-12-19T19:24:08 < benishor> I could of course reverse and start over but I have more changes which I wish I'd keep
2022-12-19T19:26:19 < jpa-> what does   /usr/bin/arm-none-eabi-g++ -print-multi-lib    print?
2022-12-19T19:27:24 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/eTCKK10U
2022-12-19T19:27:59 < jpa-> i also wonder a bit about your linker command not specifying  -mcpu=cortex-m7
2022-12-19T19:28:19 < benishor> hmm, I thought it ought have been there
2022-12-19T19:28:20 < jpa-> so maybe it ignores the -mfpu stuff because you haven't specified a cpu that has fpu
2022-12-19T19:28:21 < benishor> moment
2022-12-19T19:29:57 < benishor> same :/
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2022-12-19T19:30:11 < benishor> actually, wait
2022-12-19T19:30:19 < benishor> I only get clib related problems now
2022-12-19T19:30:30 < benishor> you, sir, are genius!
2022-12-19T19:30:43 < benishor> now I just need to fix sysmem.c:72: undefined reference to `_estack'
2022-12-19T19:32:01 < jpa-> maybe your linker command should also specify a linker script?
2022-12-19T19:32:11 < jpa-> (stm32xxxx.ld or similar)
2022-12-19T19:32:22 < benishor> ahahaha
2022-12-19T19:32:30 < benishor> this is what I did
2022-12-19T19:32:49 < benishor> removed some add_link_options() cmake lines by mistake it seems
2022-12-19T19:33:15 < benishor> specifically these:
2022-12-19T19:33:18 < benishor> add_link_options(-mcpu=cortex-m7 -mthumb -mthumb-interwork)
2022-12-19T19:33:20 < benishor> add_link_options(-T ${LINKER_SCRIPT})
2022-12-19T19:33:24 < benishor> thank you kind sir!
2022-12-19T19:33:48 < benishor> can you tell me more about ` /usr/bin/arm-none-eabi-g++ -print-multi-lib` ?
2022-12-19T19:33:59 < benishor> what did we actually check there?
2022-12-19T19:34:38 < jpa-> nowadays every sane arm-none-eabi-g++ installation has multi-lib support, but back in 2010 that was a common reason for problems (having a gcc that was compiled only with soft float support)
2022-12-19T19:35:40 < jpa-> so i just wanted to see that it lists hard-fp libraries there
2022-12-19T19:35:41 < benishor> and how would I now what fpu version to use?
2022-12-19T19:35:57 < benishor> I mean the -mfpu value
2022-12-19T19:36:17 < jpa-> you'd need to look up the specs of the microcontroller/cpu
2022-12-19T19:37:07 < benishor> datasheet? reference manual?
2022-12-19T19:37:15 < jpa-> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html  and then try to pick the same one from the GCC arguments.. it would be too easy if they were named the same as in ARM specs
2022-12-19T19:38:19 < jpa-> datasheet should probably tell the processor (cortex-m7) and whether it has the single precision or double precision FPU
2022-12-19T19:39:46 < jpa-> then somehow magically you discover that the cortex-m7 FPU is ARM FPU version 5, which leaves the two choices of fpv5-d16 and fpv5-sp-d16 (double and single precision versions)
2022-12-19T19:41:04 < jpa-> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0489/b/floating-point-unit/about-the-fpu  i guess this is pretty close to GCC naming
2022-12-19T19:41:48 < benishor> \o/
2022-12-19T19:42:31 < jpa-> but of course only way to find that page is to already know what you want to know
2022-12-19T19:44:34 < benishor> exactly. I find this quite esoteric
2022-12-19T19:49:03 < zyp> better to just find somebody who knows what you want to know and ask them
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2022-12-19T19:55:07 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y4uoxqz2Ts&t=14s&ab_channel=XavierHUBERT-BRIERRE
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2022-12-19T21:51:55 < kaki> in automotive architecture
2022-12-19T21:52:17 < kaki> if messages need to be send from one bus to another bus
2022-12-19T21:52:55 < kaki> is the module containing the "crossing point" of two busses called a gateway?
2022-12-19T22:06:57 < drzacek> I guess?
2022-12-19T22:07:39 < drzacek> non-automotive industry here: when we have connected profinet device into profibus ecosystem, the device that enabled that was called a gateway. but you can call it Tim if you want
2022-12-19T22:07:46 < kaki> yes
2022-12-19T22:07:56 < kaki> Tim it is
2022-12-19T22:11:12 < drzacek> why you ask?
2022-12-19T22:17:04 < Steffanx-> I would call it a bridge.
2022-12-19T22:17:08 < Steffanx-> But Tim is better
2022-12-19T22:24:11 < kaki> ah
2022-12-19T22:24:14 < kaki> bridge
2022-12-19T22:24:25 < kaki> I can also use that word
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2022-12-19T22:27:31 < Steffanx-> Tim
2022-12-19T22:28:34 < Steffanx-> Tim is short for "Kakis Incredible Bridge
2022-12-19T22:28:37 < qyx> wtf is Tim, isn't it CAN gateway in automotive?
2022-12-19T22:29:38 < qyx> VW calls it gateway
2022-12-19T22:51:53 < ventYl> kaki: usually, it is something like CGM - central gateway module
2022-12-19T22:52:05 < ventYl> I have just acquired diagnostics for my vintage car
2022-12-19T22:52:21 < ventYl> it has three ECUs willing talking to me
2022-12-19T22:52:26 < ventYl> + one, which only knows morse code
2022-12-19T22:52:37 < kaki> I think in BMW the fuse box is gateway
2022-12-19T22:52:47 < kaki> it has electronics inside it
2022-12-19T22:52:58 < kaki> and integrated relays etc.
2022-12-19T22:53:10 < ventYl> it depends make to make
2022-12-19T22:53:14 < kaki> bet
2022-12-19T22:53:59 < ventYl> BMW was able to do very, very nasty things in the past
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2022-12-19T23:08:37 < kaki> before 06?
2022-12-19T23:08:48 < kaki> asking for  a friend
2022-12-19T23:09:22 < ventYl> IDK when, but they did several crazy design decisions
2022-12-19T23:09:38 < ventYl> such as low pressure fuel pump terminated with some 6 individual CAN buses
2022-12-19T23:09:47 < ventYl> motto: "everyone wants to know how much fuel there is"
2022-12-19T23:10:03 < ventYl> later, they invited stupid PWM-based communication protocol for talking to fuel pump
2022-12-19T23:11:06 < kaki> hey there is also weird 19bit communication for battery and alternator
2022-12-19T23:11:12 < kaki> and coolant pump
2022-12-19T23:11:17 < kaki> all in the same bus
2022-12-19T23:11:33 < kaki> single wire
2022-12-19T23:11:39 < qyx> and some weird german called bosch invented 11 bit addressing
2022-12-19T23:12:40 < ventYl> the reason for all that is stupid
2022-12-19T23:15:45 < kaki> bosch invented canbus?
2022-12-19T23:16:12 < ventYl> apaprently
2022-12-19T23:16:18 < ventYl> if not the original, then at least the FD-CAN
2022-12-19T23:19:36 < qyx> afaik the original CAN
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2022-12-19T23:52:23 < kaki> when car is off are the busses of
2022-12-19T23:52:33 < kaki> off
2022-12-19T23:53:11 < kaki> I mean are the busses always conditioned
--- Day changed ti joulu 20 2022
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2022-12-20T00:19:57 < ventYl> usually, if at least one device on that bus is on, bus is always on
2022-12-20T00:20:11 < ventYl> unless there is defined state where device will intentionally turn it off
2022-12-20T00:20:48 < kaki> bus is always biased?
2022-12-20T00:21:06 < ventYl> transciever does that, so if you turn it on, it will also power the bus
2022-12-20T00:21:57 < kaki> can anything be woken up by can frames usually?
2022-12-20T00:22:08 < ventYl> yes
2022-12-20T00:22:11 < ventYl> it happens
2022-12-20T00:22:17 < ventYl> actually, quite often these days
2022-12-20T00:22:31 < kaki> my car has these wakeup lines
2022-12-20T00:22:46 < kaki> from central access whatever module
2022-12-20T00:23:15 < ventYl> CAN partial networking frames?
2022-12-20T00:23:45 < kaki> also it switches relays inside junction box to switch supply on / off from some modules
2022-12-20T00:24:09 < kaki> control to those relays is also from the central access thing
2022-12-20T00:24:27 < kaki> cranking signal and fuel cut is also from the same module
2022-12-20T00:24:56 < ventYl> what year is that?
2022-12-20T00:25:10 < kaki> 06
2022-12-20T00:25:36 < ventYl> I can imagine, it must be completely fucked up internally, with regards to communication
2022-12-20T00:25:51 < ventYl> something is probably already on CAN, something is analog and something is whatever they decided it to be
2022-12-20T00:26:19 < kaki> idk it seems to make sense to me
2022-12-20T00:28:50 < kaki> I'm trying to figure out how to activate electric coolant pump while car is asleep
2022-12-20T00:29:45 < kaki> so wake it up and inject some can frames that make engine controller to start the pump
2022-12-20T00:30:10 < ventYl> what is the normal condition for it to go on?
2022-12-20T00:30:29 < ventYl> as it is 2006, I expect it is some turbo after-run cooling circuit
2022-12-20T00:30:49 < ventYl> nobody sane-enough would make coolant pump electrically driven back then
2022-12-20T00:31:05 < kaki> normal condition is when engine is running the pump is running
2022-12-20T00:31:15 < kaki> but it has force line from engine electronic relay
2022-12-20T00:31:39 < kaki> I assume it's force line
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2022-12-20T00:31:58 < ventYl> have you checked docs on pinout?
2022-12-20T00:32:04 < kaki> ye
2022-12-20T00:32:34 < kaki> engine controller controls it's speed using weird propiertary bus
2022-12-20T00:33:13 < kaki> also if I turn on rest heater the pump activates as it's the only pump I have
2022-12-20T00:33:31 < kaki> without engine running - it still might have engine electronics relay on
2022-12-20T00:33:50 < ventYl> rest heater = independent auxiliary heater?
2022-12-20T00:34:08 < kaki> rest heater = blow hot air to cabin until the block is cold
2022-12-20T00:34:15 < ventYl> ah
2022-12-20T00:34:46 < kaki> but in order to activate that the car needs to be awake
2022-12-20T00:35:40 < ventYl> well, one way of doing so might be to find out, how auxiliary heaters are connected to the car electrics
2022-12-20T00:35:57 < ventYl> if you get lucky enough, there will be some "assert pump" wire somewhere
2022-12-20T00:36:09 < ventYl> if not, heater ECU will connect to engine ECU
2022-12-20T00:36:17 < ventYl> via can
2022-12-20T00:36:37 < kaki> auxiliary heater is activated from heater control panel if car is awake
2022-12-20T00:37:13 < ventYl> yes, but they often have option for remote control and/or timer startup
2022-12-20T00:37:30 < kaki> or telestart that transmits to the same access module that is used by key
2022-12-20T00:37:34 < ventYl> which means, that the car is asleep and then something awakes part of it just to run the pump
2022-12-20T00:37:49 < kaki> and access module wakes up hvac
2022-12-20T00:38:20 < kaki> and hvac activates auxiliary heater
2022-12-20T00:38:44 < kaki> I need to check that timer setup thing if there is any
2022-12-20T00:38:59 < kaki> some module needs to keep time and wake up stuff
2022-12-20T00:39:19 < ventYl> in older car designs, this used to be entirely separate
2022-12-20T00:39:30 < ventYl> like, mine has dedicated "aux heater" mode wire on HVAC
2022-12-20T00:39:57 < kaki> hvac has LIN to aux heater
2022-12-20T00:40:12 < ventYl> but that's of no use I guess
2022-12-20T00:40:25 < ventYl> ok, another approach, what's the end effect you are trying to achieve?
2022-12-20T00:40:43 < kaki> pump coolant when I plug my car to mains
2022-12-20T00:41:12 < kaki> because block heater cannot be installed I use hose heater
2022-12-20T00:41:47 < ventYl> minus 70 degrees, bimmer no start?
2022-12-20T00:41:52 < kaki> it will
2022-12-20T00:42:22 < kaki> even if it should not
2022-12-20T00:42:26 < kaki> *when
2022-12-20T00:43:10 < kaki> I have yet to see german car that doesnt start in minus 70 degrees
2022-12-20T00:43:33 < kaki> with 15year old battery
2022-12-20T00:45:25 < kaki> at some point oil turns into solid
2022-12-20T00:45:51 < kaki> coolants start to crystallize
2022-12-20T00:46:16 < kaki> tolerances are non-ideal
2022-12-20T00:47:06 < kaki> engine controller needs to dump a litre of gas into engine for some to vaporize
2022-12-20T00:47:27 < kaki> and metals become brittle
2022-12-20T00:52:52 < kaki> okay radio can be used as timer
2022-12-20T00:59:32 < kaki> but it has only bus
2022-12-20T00:59:56 < kaki> so the timekeeping is done elsewhere
2022-12-20T01:00:15 < ventYl> why?
2022-12-20T01:01:26 < kaki> idk if any other modules know the time than radio and instrument cluster
2022-12-20T01:01:32 < kaki> or keep the time
2022-12-20T01:02:11 < kaki> maybe the radio says something over the komfort bus
2022-12-20T01:02:16 < kaki> komfort can
2022-12-20T01:02:46 < ventYl> that's a 2006 car, I would expect that if you add aux heater with timer function, you'll also have to add timing ECU
2022-12-20T01:02:51 < ventYl> wherever it will be
2022-12-20T01:03:11 < ventYl> 2006 car is like 1980 PC, don't expect it to have normally-unused parts
2022-12-20T01:03:33 < kaki> yeah I installed cruise
2022-12-20T01:03:42 < Steffanx-> Music time kaki https://youtu.be/anjTd9mraeA
2022-12-20T01:03:46 < kaki> took a couple of nights
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2022-12-20T01:03:52 < kaki> needed boxes
2022-12-20T01:04:57 < kaki> Steffanx-autotune ruined it the kid was better w/o
2022-12-20T01:06:00 < ventYl> cruise for my car
2022-12-20T01:06:03 < ventYl> expensive toy
2022-12-20T01:06:10 < ventYl> costs an equivalent of another car
2022-12-20T01:08:17 < Steffanx-> You are used to autotuned music kaki. You'll survive this one.
2022-12-20T01:10:24 < kaki> Yeah I checked some musics I have listened recently
2022-12-20T01:10:45 < kaki> 8/10 recorded before autotune was invented
2022-12-20T01:11:45 < ventYl> RS232 RTS signal is an output, right?
2022-12-20T01:12:30 < kaki> depends if DTE or DCE
2022-12-20T01:13:15 < kaki> wait it's crossed to that other signal
2022-12-20T01:13:20 < ventYl> it is connected as transmit-only
2022-12-20T01:16:27 < qyx> yes rts is output
2022-12-20T01:17:07 < ventYl> hm, but it is pulled to +12V and transciever pulls it to 0
2022-12-20T01:17:25 < ventYl> so maybe I will be able to teach the diagnostic cable to talk the morse code
2022-12-20T01:22:59 < ventYl> nah, nope
2022-12-20T01:28:00 < kaki> you are working on your audi 90?
2022-12-20T01:29:13 < ventYl> not working. there's not much you can actually do using a computer on that car
2022-12-20T01:29:25 < ventYl> but read-out procedure for fault codes is slow
2022-12-20T01:29:51 < ventYl> and I have obtained diagnostic cable, so I've been curious, if I can program it to actually perform "read morse code" sequence
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2022-12-20T01:42:04 < kaki> thats so retro
2022-12-20T01:42:27 < kaki> having signal sequences for different faults
2022-12-20T01:42:53 < kaki> use fx2
2022-12-20T01:43:03 < kaki> and that pulseview sigrok thing
2022-12-20T01:43:59 < ventYl> yeah, doing custom hardware is super-easy
2022-12-20T01:44:26 < ventYl> you basically need like one transistor, zener diode and a bunch of resistors
2022-12-20T01:44:32 < kaki> they have sequences for faults but didn't put led in it to blink it out slowly?
2022-12-20T01:44:43 < ventYl> no :)
2022-12-20T01:45:14 < ventYl> and you have to short circuit L-line to GND in order for the blink sequence to start and also in order to proceed to next fault code
2022-12-20T01:45:38 < kaki> what is the rate?
2022-12-20T01:45:45 < ventYl> in the particular cable I have, the L-line is connected to RTS pin of FT232
2022-12-20T01:45:57 < ventYl> so, I can technically short circuit L-line to GND
2022-12-20T01:46:11 < ventYl> but the RX pin of the transceiver is not connected anywhere
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2022-12-20T01:47:08 < ventYl> it's somewhere around 0,5 baud
2022-12-20T01:48:11 < kaki> ah
2022-12-20T01:48:16 < kaki> it is actually human readable
2022-12-20T01:48:25 < ventYl> yes
2022-12-20T01:50:10 < kaki> can the cable go so slow?
2022-12-20T01:50:26 < ventYl> that's not an issue
2022-12-20T01:53:18 < ventYl> the real issue is that none of the hardware, you can buy, is able of reading the L-line status
2022-12-20T01:54:09 < ventYl> The only option is to hack the adaptor cable and swap K and L lines
2022-12-20T02:00:01 < kaki> I don't think I want to learn this whole K L thing
2022-12-20T02:00:12 < kaki> my car appears not to have K line
2022-12-20T02:00:19 < ventYl> there's nothing to learn that
2022-12-20T02:00:20 < kaki> it's that new!
2022-12-20T02:00:40 < ventYl> K-line is just a stupid serial line pulled to 12V
2022-12-20T02:00:46 < kaki> yes
2022-12-20T02:01:02 < ventYl> L-line is the same shit, but had different purposes and mostly ended up unused after circa 1995
2022-12-20T02:01:08 < kaki> and only connected to engine?
2022-12-20T02:01:15 < ventYl> maybe
2022-12-20T02:01:26 < kaki> in time before busses and modules
2022-12-20T02:01:51 < kaki> electricity went directly from fuse to light switch
2022-12-20T02:01:51 < ventYl> actually, the signalling on K-line is pretty close to signalling on CAN
2022-12-20T02:02:03 < kaki> and from there to light bulb
2022-12-20T02:02:22 < ventYl> and my car even contains one "private" K-line between injection and ignition ECUs
2022-12-20T02:08:46 < rustyaxe> speaking of CAN shit
2022-12-20T02:08:53 < rustyaxe> I need to hijack my steering wheel buttons
2022-12-20T02:09:26 < rustyaxe> I have no use whatsoever for cruise control.. I'd really like to use those buttons for media playback. Maybe the phone junk buttons too.. But still pass along the gear up/down buttons
2022-12-20T02:09:49 < rustyaxe> I wonder where i'd find a column wiring diagram, so i could just break the bus there and put a device in the middle
2022-12-20T02:10:24 < ventYl> if those buttons are communicated via can, then you should be able to connect your device wherever you want
2022-12-20T02:10:59 < ventYl> then you have to find out which CAN IDs are used to communicate button status
2022-12-20T02:11:07 < ventYl> filter it and profit
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2022-12-20T02:11:43 < Laurence_b> Look out for red flags: words like ‘triggered’, ‘cucked’, ‘based’, ‘normies’, ‘Chads’, ‘foid’, ‘redpill’ or ‘blackpill’ are all red flags
2022-12-20T02:14:02 < kaki> ah lurenC
2022-12-20T02:14:55 < kaki> don't use those words with normies
2022-12-20T02:16:03 < rustyaxe> ventYl: I was thinking snip the lines down the column, put a pair of CAN transceivers facing towards each side. So i could do stuff like add my own menus (so i can still pass them through to the dash menus, etc, as needed) -- probably make it so hold a button for 3+ seconds switches between em or such. Nothing fancy. But sadly it was 500$ option to add 2 buttons to the wheel, which was thankfully not 
2022-12-20T02:16:08 < Laurence_b> >no "kek"
2022-12-20T02:16:09 < rustyaxe> purchased :)
2022-12-20T02:16:52 < ventYl> rustyaxe: so you have no unused buttons there?
2022-12-20T02:17:52 < rustyaxe> no
2022-12-20T02:17:59 < rustyaxe> i mean the 3 cruise control are useless
2022-12-20T02:19:18 < rustyaxe> theres ~12-14 buttons total on the steering wheel. Ample for more useful things, but sometimes i will need to use them for their intended use (the settings menu, etc). 
2022-12-20T02:21:21 < ventYl> what car?
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2022-12-20T02:36:51 < rustyaxe> 16 ram truck
2022-12-20T02:36:57 < rustyaxe> 1500
2022-12-20T02:37:41 < rustyaxe> i dont use the cruise control as it's not smart enough to deal with our mountains -- it'll try accelerating up a massive grade, pushing MPG down to 3-4mpg :O
2022-12-20T02:37:53 < rustyaxe> instead of downshifting
2022-12-20T02:38:17 < ventYl> it is possible that those buttons will be communicated in analog fashion
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2022-12-20T02:46:47 < kaki> 1500 cruise will press the pedal for you real story
2022-12-20T02:47:17 < kaki> it's crazy. gas pedal drops to floor by itself
2022-12-20T02:47:36 < ventYl> gn
2022-12-20T02:47:58 < kaki> gn
2022-12-20T02:50:37 < rustyaxe> yea its very fuel inefficient
2022-12-20T02:50:53 < rustyaxe> I manage 24mpg without it. 12-13 with
2022-12-20T02:51:39 < kaki> which year model?
2022-12-20T02:51:49 < rustyaxe> Granted, im OK with doing 60 in the right most lane in a 65-70 going up a massive grade, rather than try to power up the mountain at 70+ 
2022-12-20T02:51:52 < rustyaxe> kaki: 16
2022-12-20T02:51:59 < kaki> ah
2022-12-20T02:52:07 < kaki> friend has 99
2022-12-20T02:52:27 < rustyaxe> yea i got friends with that vintage, they actually use it tho. And bitch their mpg is trash :P
2022-12-20T02:52:38 < kaki> cummins diesel
2022-12-20T02:52:47 < kaki> tuned to max
2022-12-20T02:52:50 < rustyaxe> I dont like watching the instantenous needle buried
2022-12-20T02:53:35 < kaki> steering has quarter of rotation oh slack or something
2022-12-20T02:53:41 < kaki> *of
2022-12-20T02:55:03 < rustyaxe> my friends of that vintage has too much power steering, 1/2" of wheel movement is like 1/4 of the turning radius
2022-12-20T02:55:10 < rustyaxe> Its quite difficult to drive a straight line in :P
2022-12-20T02:55:50 < rustyaxe> perfectly straight road? Sure. but try staying centered in the lines on a real road? Its a fight the whole way. 16 at least has variable assist (something that honda pioneered in 1980s lol)
2022-12-20T02:56:21 < rustyaxe> his has same power assist in a parking lot at 0mph as it does at 100mph. Not a fun drive at all
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2022-12-20T10:47:14 < jpa-> zyp: got "old log data" bug again this morning; got total of 6177 bytes of old stuff, after that it stopped giving any output; seems pyocd may be somehow involved in this, but unfortunately I didn't have wireshark capturing this time :)
2022-12-20T11:08:54 < benishor> morning
2022-12-20T11:09:25 < benishor> what are some common techniques of reducing power consumption for an mcu?
2022-12-20T11:11:40 < jpa-> turning it off
2022-12-20T11:12:51 < benishor> disabling unneeded peripherals does not seem to save too much
2022-12-20T11:13:23 < benishor> I suppose turning it off would be quite the treat, but how would it know when to wake up?
2022-12-20T11:14:41 < BrainDamage> interrupts, from rtc or gpio
2022-12-20T11:16:05 < jpa-> on the faster STM32s that have significant core usage, providing 1.2V from SMPS instead of wasting 60% of energy by using the internal LDO can help too - but it depend on how much the power drain of Vcore domain vs. VDD domain is
2022-12-20T11:28:52 < benishor> any place I can read more about it?
2022-12-20T11:31:56 < jpa-> AN5215 might be relevant
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2022-12-20T12:26:42 < ventYl> kaki: I just spoke to someone who did development on BMWs of that era. he told me, that the only viable solution is to pour gasoline on it and set it on fire.
2022-12-20T12:45:15 < Steffanx-> Lol. The entire car or what, ventYl  ?
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2022-12-20T13:36:50 < ventYl> Steffanx-: kaki want to hack his coolant pump, but automotive engineers at BMW developed some weird proprietary protocol for driving it
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2022-12-20T17:27:44 < kaki> ventYl: but hey at least it has electric coolant pump
2022-12-20T17:27:50 < kaki> there is posibilities
2022-12-20T17:28:23 < kaki> to get it going
2022-12-20T17:29:08 < kaki> ventYl: your automotive friends are just scar'd by the work they did
2022-12-20T17:29:33 < kaki> end results are not that bad they think
2022-12-20T17:29:56 < kaki> I'm still running the first coolant pump btw.
2022-12-20T17:30:01 < kaki> 240000km
2022-12-20T17:30:29 < kaki> statistically I'm in maybe 5-10% top end of the kilometers for the pump
2022-12-20T17:31:42 < kaki> you don't build a new car models without bunch of people getting burnouts
2022-12-20T17:32:55 < kaki> or straight up quiting
2022-12-20T18:35:30 < ventYl> kaki: well, the reason, why that damn fucking pump is using weird proprietar protocol is, that they wanted to avoid using more expensive MCU for it
2022-12-20T18:35:50 < ventYl> and I am pretty sure, a bunch of people were bleedin blood while they got the shit running
2022-12-20T18:40:25 < ventYl> aand list of side effects of building new cars in germany includes such things as heart attacks 'n' stuff
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2022-12-20T22:07:46 < kaki> ventYl: ofc it's the reason
2022-12-20T22:08:08 < kaki> 8bit mcu and couple of trannys
2022-12-20T22:08:21 < kaki> and it's not a problem
2022-12-20T22:08:54 < kaki> I'm actually going to make a sniffer for that bus
2022-12-20T22:09:11 < kaki> because I add PTC to my heater
2022-12-20T22:09:38 < kaki> I can read things such as battery state and alternator field % from that one wire
2022-12-20T22:09:50 < Steffanx-> Time to get that box with gender changes out of the closet, kaki 
2022-12-20T22:10:36 < kaki> yet again you are enigmatic Steffanx-
2022-12-20T22:10:49 < kaki> aah..
2022-12-20T22:10:55 < kaki> trannys
2022-12-20T22:11:04 < Steffanx-> :P
2022-12-20T22:11:18 < Steffanx-> Good morning
2022-12-20T22:11:27 < kaki> indeed
2022-12-20T22:11:38 < kaki> slow wake up
2022-12-20T22:11:53 < kaki> I have been waking up since 9
2022-12-20T22:13:35 < Steffanx-> It's a beautiful day ay ay ay ay
2022-12-20T22:15:25 < Steffanx-> Do finnish do this to when winter comes kaki ? https://www.dumpert.nl/?selectedId=100049285_593102a3 
2022-12-20T22:15:37 < Steffanx-> oh, finnish dont go outside
2022-12-20T22:16:41 < kaki> yes
2022-12-20T22:17:17 < kaki> old saying is that 2cm is enough for pedestrian, 1cm for skis
2022-12-20T22:17:32 < kaki> and 0.5cm for ice fisher
2022-12-20T22:17:43 < Steffanx-> its enough until it isnt
2022-12-20T22:18:40 < zyp> I did that a couple of times as a kid
2022-12-20T22:20:22 < kaki> it's news every spring how some grandpa went ice fishing and got stranded because ice melted around him
2022-12-20T22:20:48 < kaki> and they need to go there with hovercraft or something
2022-12-20T22:21:59 < Steffanx-> Me too, luckily no one was filming back then
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2022-12-20T22:40:58 < PaulFertser> "USB C is when you tell people the latest PD spec uses 3 phase-shifted AC pins to archieve more power over the same connector and they need to google it to be sure it’s only a joke" https://mond-basis.eu/@transcaffeine/109539687918615299
2022-12-20T22:43:54 < ventYl> kaki: well, the bottom line was, that someone wise enough at bimmer decided, that everything connected to CAN has to use autosar SDK. which is huge.
2022-12-20T22:44:17 < ventYl> kaki: so everyone who could possibly do that, tried to avoid CAN. even by inventing their own proprietary bus
2022-12-20T22:44:22 < kaki> now we are getting somewhere
2022-12-20T22:44:30 < kaki> can I get that autosar thing
2022-12-20T22:44:42 < kaki> for free ofc
2022-12-20T22:44:50 < kaki> ?
2022-12-20T22:44:54 < ventYl> that'll be of no use for you
2022-12-20T22:46:17 < ventYl> first, it is more like a SDK spec rather than concrete piece of software (the spec is open, you can read it online)
2022-12-20T22:46:37 < ventYl> second, the fact that some weird bus is present there means, at least one end is not based on autosar
2022-12-20T22:46:50 < ventYl> ++that
2022-12-20T22:47:39 < kaki> I dont know if I made a car that I would connect alternator or water pump into canbus even if I could
2022-12-20T22:48:11 < zyp>  how are you gonna report failure then?
2022-12-20T22:48:42 < ventYl> plain ol' good alternator failure instrument cluster light?
2022-12-20T22:49:44 < kaki> zyp: using propiertary bus ofc
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2022-12-20T22:51:42 < kaki> it's not only single wire alternator comms I have seen ventYl
2022-12-20T22:51:47 < Laurence_b> hyperboss connected 4kV to the "0V" traction motor shunt leads today...
2022-12-20T22:51:57 < Laurence_b> I picked up the other end of the leads...
2022-12-20T22:52:01 < kaki> so other brands have their own propiertary busses?
2022-12-20T22:53:49 < kaki> Laurence_b: fun
2022-12-20T22:53:51 < ventYl> kaki: mostly not these days. there used to be some weird shit, but it mostly got extinct, because you have to have someone, who will make transcievers for you and that's expensive
2022-12-20T22:54:07 < ventYl> kaki: some years ago GM tossed away GMLAN
2022-12-20T22:54:24 < Laurence_b> luckily I have a plastic gripper for moving leads, but I dropped them onto chassis and there was a big boom
2022-12-20T22:55:17 < kaki> nowdays alternator is PWM out field % and maybe energizing pin that also acts as charging indicator / failure indicator?
2022-12-20T22:56:23 < kaki> Laurence_b: wait.. why are you guys playing with live wires?
2022-12-20T22:56:59 < Laurence_b> kaki: because we didnt want to stop the motor spinning...
2022-12-20T22:57:32 < Laurence_b> I expected the lines to have about 2V on them, not 4kV, but he had connected them the phase voltages
2022-12-20T22:58:24 < Laurence_b> luckily it was on RCD protected power, not the multi megawatt grid connection
2022-12-20T23:01:37 < ventYl> Laurence_b: that sounds so british
2022-12-20T23:03:34 < ventYl> kaki: TBH I don't have slightest clue. I haven't disassembled anything newer than ~1999
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2022-12-20T23:04:19 < Laurence_b> there is an interlock on the door, but that stops the grid power, he has bypassed grid power with another RCD protected supply "so its still safe"
2022-12-20T23:08:09 < Laurence_b> I'm supposed to have a TGV powered by these ready for March...
2022-12-20T23:10:06 < Laurence_b> moar implausible hyperloop planz
2022-12-20T23:10:31 < ventYl> *this* March?
2022-12-20T23:11:18 < Laurence_b> yes
2022-12-20T23:11:26 < Laurence_b> 2 months to finish it
2022-12-20T23:12:20 < karlp> benishor: nm --print-size and --size-sort doesn't pay attention to sections, but is often enough....  
2022-12-20T23:12:26 < ventYl> well, 2023 will suck for venture capitalists-based enterprises
2022-12-20T23:12:26 < karlp> benishor:for more glory, sed! https://mastodon.social/@karlp/109444667278610677
2022-12-20T23:12:49 < Laurence_b> the shitulink codez are still breaking and we havent even starting on the MVB interface with the train...
2022-12-20T23:13:57 < ventYl> well, good luck
2022-12-20T23:14:12 < Laurence_b> yeah I'm not the boss, so not my problem lol
2022-12-20T23:14:30 < ventYl> you just have to have the rat reflex
2022-12-20T23:14:33 < Laurence_b> he said he could do it by March 23... 2 years ago
2022-12-20T23:14:44 < ventYl> knowing when it is the best time to flee the sinking ship
2022-12-20T23:14:46 < Laurence_b> then did nothing on it for over a year
2022-12-20T23:15:28 < Laurence_b> nobody even knows how the cooling water will connect or where the HVDC cables will be routed yet...
2022-12-20T23:16:47 < benishor> karlp: thank you valiant knight
2022-12-20T23:16:58 < benishor> I also switched to mastodon from twitter
2022-12-20T23:17:10 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-12-20T23:17:25 < Laurence_b> mastodon has even more stupid rules than twitter
2022-12-20T23:17:34 < benishor> nothing like fucking elon up his ass
2022-12-20T23:17:34 < Laurence_b> although actually thats no longer true
2022-12-20T23:17:40 < Steffanx-> benishor: did you at least switch to a recognizable url?
2022-12-20T23:17:48 < Steffanx-> server whatever you call this "space"
2022-12-20T23:17:49 < Laurence_b> as twitter has "dont annoy elon even slightly"
2022-12-20T23:18:37 < Laurence_b> literally days of web1.0 tyrant jannies
2022-12-20T23:19:23 < Laurence_b> "I believe in free speech unless I dont like you for any reason"
2022-12-20T23:22:44 < Laurence_b> he personally banned my m8 from uni who had managed to avoid bans for years despite being a massive edgelord and trollin the femisists
2022-12-20T23:23:32 < Steffanx-> who cares.
2022-12-20T23:23:42 < BrainDamage> that sounds like a thing in favor of musk, not against
2022-12-20T23:24:04 < BrainDamage> it's everything else that goes against musk
2022-12-20T23:24:21 < Laurence_b> lolllll
2022-12-20T23:28:12 < specing> Laurence_b: personally?
2022-12-20T23:28:23 < Steffanx-> I still wonder how mastodon will handle moderation when it gets big. 
2022-12-20T23:28:50 < Laurence_b> Steffanx-: just ban the offending server
2022-12-20T23:28:55 < Steffanx-> Moderation till the person is sick of it and kills the instance.
2022-12-20T23:29:02 < Laurence_b> seems to be their current scheme, also why its stupid
2022-12-20T23:29:29 < Laurence_b> specing: yeah, he said he supported abortion for retards, and rad chrisitans complained to Musk
2022-12-20T23:29:59 < englishman> That definitely sounds like twitter content pre-musk
2022-12-20T23:30:22 < englishman> perfect content for ad companies to target
2022-12-20T23:31:22 < englishman> Apparently in mastodongs you can’t even follow people who aren’t on the same server?
2022-12-20T23:31:45 < Laurence_b> yeah his original comment was over a year ago, they waited for musk to take over before complaining
2022-12-20T23:32:40 < specing> Laurence_b: but was it personally?!
2022-12-20T23:32:52 < karlp> englishman: wat? where did you hear that shit?
2022-12-20T23:33:07 < englishman> idk I think I read it somewhere
2022-12-20T23:33:11 < Laurence_b> Musk replied saying something like "that guy is a notorious troll who has crossed the line too many times"
2022-12-20T23:33:17 < karlp> it's not true :)
2022-12-20T23:33:20 < englishman> Maybe interface-dependent?
2022-12-20T23:33:50 < Laurence_b> englishman: only for edgelord servers that have been defederated
2022-12-20T23:33:54 < englishman> i did read a thread on hn where someone complained about the ui and the answer was “why don’t you just make your own”
2022-12-20T23:33:56 < karlp> I mean, the whole "federated" part of fediverse kinda depnds on that sort of thing working?!
2022-12-20T23:34:05 < Laurence_b> but in the future it will all be defederated due to mod chaos lol
2022-12-20T23:34:48 < englishman> Yea network coherence is dubious at best, especially as it scales
2022-12-20T23:35:02 < englishman> and as that scaling starts to cost real storage and bandwidth
2022-12-20T23:35:07 < Laurence_b> "we're defederating u! No we're defederating u"
2022-12-20T23:35:29 < BrainDamage> imo mastodon is just too chaotic for mass adoption
2022-12-20T23:35:52 < englishman> Chaotic, user-hostile, and unscalable
2022-12-20T23:36:02 < BrainDamage> it's the same as many other open source projects, it sacrifices convenience for principles that the average user doesn't care about
2022-12-20T23:36:28 < englishman> sounds like many R&D-driven projects
2022-12-20T23:36:31 < englishman> ;-)
2022-12-20T23:37:24 < qyx> 21:31 < englishman> Apparently in mastodongs you can’t even follow people who aren’t on the same server?
2022-12-20T23:37:27 < qyx> wat
2022-12-20T23:37:41 < englishman> Idk maybe follow is not the right term
2022-12-20T23:37:41 < qyx> indeed you can and I do
2022-12-20T23:37:59 < Laurence_b> even irc pwns mastodon
2022-12-20T23:38:01 < karlp> I'm quite enjoying the local iceland mastodon I've joined, and it turns out, it doesn't _need_ to scale to elenvety billion
2022-12-20T23:38:05 < englishman> i don’t use mastodongs or twatter so I’m not hip to the jive
2022-12-20T23:38:08 < qyx> I don't see any particular problem with mastodongs compared to twatter
2022-12-20T23:38:15 < karlp> I'm _never_ going to want to need to follow huge chunks of people.
2022-12-20T23:38:39 < qyx> and it is horizontally scalable like emails are
2022-12-20T23:38:57 < qyx> idk, meh
2022-12-20T23:39:05 < qyx> it works as I expect such thing to work
2022-12-20T23:41:26 < Laurence_b> xmpp/jabber seems better
2022-12-20T23:41:55 < BrainDamage> I have some decent knowledge of xmpp and it's absolute garbage
2022-12-20T23:42:02 < Laurence_b> lol
2022-12-20T23:42:11 < BrainDamage> the core protocol cannot even do group convos
2022-12-20T23:42:25 < BrainDamage> and there's 3 competiting standards to do that
2022-12-20T23:43:07 < BrainDamage> it's a gigantic mess of extensions over extensions, and no unified behaviour for basic functionality
2022-12-20T23:45:16 < englishman> related: Tesla app now lets you make the car fart remotely. When it does, there is a little popup: “verified fart” lol
--- Day changed ke joulu 21 2022
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2022-12-21T00:46:15 < Steffanx-> Buying a telsa right away 
2022-12-21T00:51:20 < benishor> karlp:  I followed you  on mastodon
2022-12-21T00:51:30 < benishor> yo6ssw and benishor are both me
2022-12-21T00:51:44 < benishor> one is my account on linux.pizza.social and the other one is on mastodon.radio
2022-12-21T00:52:06 < benishor> I wasn't decided on the whole fediverse thing so I decided to test two servers
2022-12-21T00:52:23 < benishor> I hope will eventually merge them
2022-12-21T01:22:20 < qyx> wasn't xmpp already dead 5y ago?
2022-12-21T01:22:47 < qyx> also who even bases any new protocol on xml
2022-12-21T01:23:36 < qyx> besides corporations, banks, etc still living in 2000 an earlier
2022-12-21T01:24:29 < qyx> a bit ontopic: do you know any good, current and reasonable logging framework for embedded use?
2022-12-21T01:25:00 < qyx> I came across opentelemetry recently
2022-12-21T01:26:14 < qyx> I am curious if it is feasible to use their API and make a collector with low resource usage
2022-12-21T01:27:44 < qyx> not because cool and protobuf, but if it gets wider adoption/acceptance, it may be easier to use knowing the basic concepts
2022-12-21T01:28:37 < qyx> also a simple ring buffer collector should be trivial, UART formatter too
2022-12-21T01:29:03 < qyx> or even traces could be sent to SWO
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2022-12-21T11:27:42 < jpa-> hmm, turns out you get very interesting bugs when you accidentally run your interrupt handlers simultaneously on both cores
2022-12-21T11:28:08 < jpa-> they do the same things almost in lock step, but due to shared bus race conditions randomly pop up
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2022-12-21T11:40:36 < zyp> there were some story around where somebody did something similar on a mainframe
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2022-12-21T11:48:15 < benishor> jpa-: same interrupt handler? or different?
2022-12-21T11:48:33 < zyp> same, obviously
2022-12-21T11:48:58 < benishor> how does it get there? :)
2022-12-21T11:52:26 < zyp> by accident
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2022-12-21T12:17:05 < jpa-> pretty easy, by enabling the same IRQ on both cores
2022-12-21T12:17:46 < zyp> which chip is this? one of the dualcore h7?
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2022-12-21T12:18:51 < jpa-> rp2040
2022-12-21T12:19:15 < jpa-> i have same vector table for both cores, so just the NVIC enable bit is separate for the cores
2022-12-21T12:19:37 < benishor> sorry, I missed some lines due to a reboot
2022-12-21T12:19:42 < jpa-> also when you have debugger connected to only core0, it doesn't reset core1
2022-12-21T12:20:05 < zyp> ah
2022-12-21T12:20:08 < jpa-> which is how it actually happened: old version of code enabled an IRQ on core1, and then new version moved that to core0
2022-12-21T12:20:52 < zyp> indeed, rp2040 is more like two singlecore mcus with a shared memory space than a dualcore mcu
2022-12-21T12:21:26 < jpa-> in what ways do other dualcores differ?
2022-12-21T12:21:49 < jpa-> the NRST pin is shared, but unusable because it kicks off the debugger
2022-12-21T12:27:38 < zyp> well, first of all it's got two completely separate DPs on a multidrop SWD bus, rather than a shared DP with an AP per core
2022-12-21T12:29:18 < zyp> and I'm not sure it got any of the cross triggering stuff hooked up either
2022-12-21T12:29:52 < jpa-> yeah, the debug stuff layout is weird
2022-12-21T12:30:00 < jpa-> not sure why they did it that way
2022-12-21T12:31:02 < zyp> my guess is that the cm0 IP came packaged like that, with a full DP and all, and it was easier to just glue two separate instances together
2022-12-21T12:32:04 < jpa-> makes sense
2022-12-21T12:32:26 < jpa-> well, on the plus side it drives the adoption of multi-drop SWD into open source debugging stuff
2022-12-21T12:32:35 < jpa-> which can be useful for other projects also
2022-12-21T12:33:10 < zyp> yeah, except multi-drop SWD itself appears to be less useful than I expected it to be
2022-12-21T12:33:30 < jpa-> why?
2022-12-21T12:34:38 < zyp> it relies on preconfigured addresses, so you can't just grab e.g. two stm32s and hook swdio/swclk together and address them individually
2022-12-21T12:39:41 < zyp> in rp2040, there's three DPs, as per 2.3.4 on page 62: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp2040/rp2040-datasheet.pdf
2022-12-21T12:39:53 < zyp> one per CPU and one «rescue DP»
2022-12-21T12:41:10 < zyp> the CPU DP addrs have four configurable bits, so technically it's possible to put a bunch of them on the same bus, but I'm not sure how the logistics of configuring the addrs would work out in practice
2022-12-21T12:41:48 < zyp> so I've concluded that multidrop SWD is kinda useless
2022-12-21T12:42:02 < zyp> and hence pointless
2022-12-21T12:42:18 < jpa-> hmm, indeed
2022-12-21T12:42:26 < jpa-> pretty stupid
2022-12-21T12:42:48 < jpa-> could have made some 1-wire style discovery scheme based on CPU unique IDs
2022-12-21T12:42:52 < zyp> the issue is that the only way to sanely preprovision unique addrs per DP is to stick all the DPs into the same chip, e.g. the rp2040 way
2022-12-21T12:43:26 < zyp> but in that case I don't really see any benefit vs just sticking more APs on a single shared DP
2022-12-21T12:43:59 < zyp> so multidrop SWD only solves problems that didn't exist in the first place
2022-12-21T12:44:28 < jpa-> yeah, seems like stupid omission to lack automatic address assignment
2022-12-21T12:44:39 < zyp> indeed
2022-12-21T12:45:01 < ventYl> jpa-: what debugger does not reset core1
2022-12-21T12:45:02 < ventYl> ?
2022-12-21T12:45:25 < jpa-> in 1wire it works basically with command like "Every device with unique id starting with bits 0100101010010 pull the line down now!" and the master goes and tests one bit at a time
2022-12-21T12:45:44 < jpa-> ventYl: i'm using orbtrace and pyocd currently
2022-12-21T12:45:56 < zyp> yeah, something like that should work
2022-12-21T12:46:08 < jpa-> ventYl: but so far i haven't seen *any* debugger that resets both cores on RP2040 without also dropping the debugger connection
2022-12-21T12:46:43 < ventYl> jpa-: did you try picoprobe?
2022-12-21T12:47:05 < jpa-> ventYl: no
2022-12-21T12:47:32 < zyp> I don't think there is any way of halting/resuming both cores in parallel
2022-12-21T12:48:48 < ventYl> hm, i don't have any code which uses both cores right now
2022-12-21T12:49:06 < ventYl> and my rtos is half dead on rp2040
2022-12-21T12:49:43 < zyp> a debugger that multiplexes debugging them both in parallel shouldn't be any issue, but without any cross triggering I don't think it's possible to keep them in exact sync
2022-12-21T12:50:52 < zyp> but still, doing a reset halt on both, and then resuming them should be good enough for most cases
2022-12-21T12:55:06 < jpa-> most multicore code works by controlling core1 from core0 anyway
2022-12-21T12:56:58 < ventYl> yeah, but my creepy rtos is full smp, so whatever which is not interrupt-triggered may jump around cores "randomly"
2022-12-21T12:57:45 < ventYl> it would also be fun watching, how RPC call will melt everything down on SMP machine
2022-12-21T12:58:00 < ventYl> hm, it wouldn'
2022-12-21T12:58:01 < ventYl> t
2022-12-21T12:58:36 < zyp> I should try my coro stuff on rp2040 some time, just run a coro scheduler on each core picking from the same ready-queue :)
2022-12-21T13:00:13 < jpa-> disabling interrupts on multicore is annoying
2022-12-21T13:00:14 < zyp> except I'm not sure how to do a shared queue efficiently
2022-12-21T13:01:06 < ventYl> lock-free
2022-12-21T13:01:16 < ventYl> i have figured that out theoretically
2022-12-21T13:01:56 < jpa-> e.g. some peripheral code that would really only care that the interrupt of that peripheral is not triggered during some function call; if the function call can come from either core, simple __disable_irq() is not enough
2022-12-21T13:02:30 < zyp> indeed
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2022-12-21T14:01:48 < karlp> qyx: unfortunately most of the telemetry collectors I've seen have seem to be part of the "pay" portion of lots of cloud solutions.
2022-12-21T14:05:56 < karlp> jpa-: is it possible 1wire patents haven't expired yet or something? because that 1wire discovery seems to be both a) very obvious and easy to understand and implement, and b) not used anywhere else...
2022-12-21T14:07:37 < zyp> I think i3c addressing is pretty similar
2022-12-21T14:08:07 < karlp> that's the one that came out of mipi right?
2022-12-21T14:08:11 < zyp> and I think there's also CAN based protocols with similar stuff
2022-12-21T14:08:13 < zyp> yeah
2022-12-21T14:09:29 < karlp> I didn't realise swd multi drop was so limited.
2022-12-21T14:09:56 < karlp> sounds like it would only ever be useful for the soc case, where you have multiple cores in a preconfigured package, so fixed addresses doesn't matter
2022-12-21T14:10:12 < karlp> vs the "I want to us swd instead of jtag on my multi chip board" case we all thoguth we were getting :)
2022-12-21T14:10:21 < zyp> exactly
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2022-12-21T14:10:45 < karlp> and I mean, it' sstill useful if it help socs only, but like you said, they could just all be on the same DAP then?!
2022-12-21T14:11:11 < zyp> I was pretty disappointed when I read the spec
2022-12-21T14:11:12 < karlp> probably what you suggested, IP cores came with their own DAP, multi drop swd let them use them as is.
2022-12-21T14:11:14 < karlp> meh.
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2022-12-21T14:32:19 < jpa-> karlp: i can't find whether the 1-wire search method was ever patented, but e.g. DS1820 using it came out already in 1995 so any patent would be expired by now
2022-12-21T14:32:59 < jpa-> the original 1-wire patents seem to include only the signalling method, not the use of the wired-or stucture for address search
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2022-12-21T17:27:24 < benishor> are there any decent map file parsers/info extractors?
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2022-12-21T17:53:38 < ventYl> no such thing can exist, as different compilers have vastly different structure of map files
2022-12-21T17:59:41 < benishor> so back to nm, readelf and friends
2022-12-21T18:00:45 < kaki> ventYl: I think I'm going to convert my car heater circuit to have OE auxiliary coolant pump
2022-12-21T18:00:55 < kaki> it's 12VDC pump
2022-12-21T18:01:10 < kaki> and it has place in the car just buy hoses
2022-12-21T18:01:51 < kaki> it's usually connected to HVAC panel but it might be operated only when auxiliary heater is in operation
2022-12-21T18:02:23 < ventYl> benishor: I'd say yes. it depends on what kind of data you are interested in
2022-12-21T18:02:44 < ventYl> sometimes, mapfiles contain some additional information which is hard to obtain from binaries
2022-12-21T18:03:07 < jpa-> benishor: why not just read from elf, of use arm-none-eabi-addr2line?
2022-12-21T18:03:42 < ventYl> kaki: smart decision
2022-12-21T18:03:50 < benishor> jpa-: I didn't know about addr2line
2022-12-21T18:03:56 < benishor> checking it right now
2022-12-21T18:04:22 < ventYl> there's also c++filt utility, useful for demangling mangled C++ symbols
2022-12-21T18:04:51 < kaki> ventYl: but only if I get the pump for reasonable price
2022-12-21T18:05:04 < benishor> apparently -C does demangling for both addr2line and nm
2022-12-21T18:05:13 < kaki> defa heater kit that comes with 230VAC pump is +600eur
2022-12-21T18:05:34 < kaki> while defa PTC hose heater is +100eur
2022-12-21T18:05:52 < ventYl> kaki: buy used pump from aux heater set?
2022-12-21T18:06:02 < kaki> yes - if I find any
2022-12-21T18:06:22 < kaki> and new hoses
2022-12-21T18:06:24 < ventYl> or any electric 12V pump from whatever car
2022-12-21T18:06:30 < kaki> no
2022-12-21T18:06:39 < kaki> OE just the right pump
2022-12-21T18:06:48 < kaki> there is place in the car for it
2022-12-21T18:07:05 < ventYl> i have managed to kill my airbag
2022-12-21T18:07:09 < kaki> how?
2022-12-21T18:07:47 < kaki> I saw in audi a4 b6 service book that airbags must be changed every 16years or so
2022-12-21T18:07:51 < ventYl> after dashboard removal I connected it to steering column and dropped it before it was bolted into steering wheel
2022-12-21T18:08:26 < kaki> the car is now 21years old and how much was the price of new airbags again?
2022-12-21T18:08:42 < ventYl> kaki: that's an old information. I have a sticker on B-pillar carrying same information. this was cancelled aroung 2009 when it was found out that there is no undetectable deterioration of charges
2022-12-21T18:09:13 < kaki> ah
2022-12-21T18:09:26 < ventYl> actually, your old airbag might be (highly probably is) faulty straight from production line :)
2022-12-21T18:09:28 < kaki> so it's one of those prints made for liability reasons?
2022-12-21T18:09:43 < ventYl> there was a huge recall of airbags of that era
2022-12-21T18:10:03 < kaki> ventYl: I crash at walking speed and airbag kills me
2022-12-21T18:10:21 < kaki> right?
2022-12-21T18:10:54 < ventYl> kaki: no, there was an assumption, that changing temperatures and wet air could deteriorate charge without ECU being able to detect that. so they installed 15 years replacement interval.
2022-12-21T18:11:45 < kaki> how do I know if my airbag is actually a granade?
2022-12-21T18:11:50 < ventYl> then, somewhere around 2008 (the year 15 years after first airbags were installed into Audis) they realized that no undetectable deterioration happens. if charge is deteriorated, it can be detected, if nothing is detected, charge works
2022-12-21T18:12:01 < benishor> kaki: use your mother in law as a test subject
2022-12-21T18:12:18 < ventYl> so they cancelled that interval and now Audi has warehouses full of airbags for vintage cars
2022-12-21T18:12:25 < ventYl> they have shitload of airbags
2022-12-21T18:12:32 < ventYl> which nobody wants :D
2022-12-21T18:13:00 < kaki> they could do videos where they place them under a seat where somebody is napping
2022-12-21T18:13:07 < kaki> then plug it into mains
2022-12-21T18:13:29 < kaki> or send stuff to orbit with them
2022-12-21T18:14:00 < kaki> ventYl: audi bags are all safe non-granade type?
2022-12-21T18:14:03 < kaki> how about MB?
2022-12-21T18:14:39 < kaki> I think jap cars were mainly plagued by those granade airbags back then
2022-12-21T18:14:44 < ventYl> kaki: IIRC, the issue was with manufacturer. There were two or three airbag manufacturers back then and one of them used unreliable charges which may fail to fire if needed, or fire slower than expected
2022-12-21T18:14:55 < ventYl> jap cars and Audi, IIRC
2022-12-21T18:15:01 < kaki> okay
2022-12-21T18:15:04 < ventYl> there were recalls of A4 B5s
2022-12-21T18:15:09 < ventYl> of certain MYs
2022-12-21T18:15:35 < kaki> but there was unstabile charges were the explosive became significantly faster when aged
2022-12-21T18:15:40 < kaki> turning airbags into granades
2022-12-21T18:15:49 < kaki> where*
2022-12-21T18:15:52 < ventYl> I already have entire steering wheel, steering column switches, airbag 'n' stuff from early A4 B5, so I will replace everything
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2022-12-21T18:16:27 < ventYl> it turns out, that early B5s are essentially just a facelift of late B4s and stuff is compatible
2022-12-21T18:16:45 < ventYl> to the level, that some late B4s were factory finished with B5-like steering accessories
2022-12-21T18:16:53 < BrainDamage> kaki: do you happen to know the average household/farm sized diesel generator efficiency?
2022-12-21T18:17:06 < BrainDamage> small farm*
2022-12-21T18:17:37 < kaki> lemme check brb>
2022-12-21T18:20:07 < kaki> ventYl: https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/takata-recall-spotlight
2022-12-21T18:21:03 < ventYl> kaki: well, okay
2022-12-21T18:24:30 < kaki> BrainDamage: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZcqzqBBRl8fWoutmMfTsAG6pUI1PV2f9/view?usp=sharing
2022-12-21T18:25:23 < BrainDamage> kaki: thanks
2022-12-21T18:26:02 < BrainDamage> :o didn't know italy exported gennies
2022-12-21T18:26:45 < kaki> when it's connected to tractor it does
2022-12-21T18:26:57 < rustyaxe> powergenitalia.it?
2022-12-21T18:27:24 < rustyaxe> im sure they long ago renamed
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2022-12-21T18:29:10 < qyx> kaki: do you know the fuel efficiency?
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2022-12-21T19:48:33 < kaki> qyx: idk.. I once connected the farm to it
2022-12-21T19:48:44 < kaki> 4-6litres/hour
2022-12-21T19:49:08 < kaki> but revs and load were so close to idle that it's hard to determine
2022-12-21T19:49:45 < kaki> tractor is 2litres/hour to idle
2022-12-21T19:50:52 < kaki> it's just way too large machine for that gen
2022-12-21T19:51:39 < kaki> 6.8litre diesel for 27kVA gen
2022-12-21T19:54:15 < kaki> if I needed to run it long time I would probs weld PTO shaft to steel rim of audi a4 b6
2022-12-21T19:54:32 < kaki> 1.9tdi
2022-12-21T19:54:56 < kaki> then ESP off and cruise on
2022-12-21T19:55:13 < kaki> given there is dominant speed detection wheel
2022-12-21T19:55:58 < kaki> usually it's rear maybe
2022-12-21T19:57:30 < kaki> it may be too new car for trick like that
2022-12-21T19:58:51 < kaki> in trucks cruise at neutral can be used to set RPM for appliances
2022-12-21T20:00:44 < kaki> or code a rpm limit with vagcom and place a brick on top of gas pedal
2022-12-21T20:02:27 < kaki> I once considered that I should make a tractor out of that 1.9tdi by adding a PTO transmission running directly from front of crankshaft
2022-12-21T20:03:49 < kaki> for tiny stationary loads like that gen
2022-12-21T20:09:32 < rustyaxe> i need a 1.9tbi for my rabbit ;(
2022-12-21T20:09:49 < rustyaxe> 1.6 idi is worn and tired 47hp 40 years ago, maybe 30 now :(
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2022-12-21T20:11:06 < rustyaxe> tdi
2022-12-21T20:12:24 < kaki> for your rabbit?
2022-12-21T20:13:12 < kaki> explain
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2022-12-21T20:13:53 < rustyaxe> kaki: it's a rabbit truck (VW)
2022-12-21T20:14:20 < rustyaxe> FWD 1.6l IDI diesel with half a million plus miles (CR), and a 5 speed :P
2022-12-21T20:34:36 < kaki> :O
2022-12-21T20:35:04 < kaki> it's sexy
2022-12-21T20:35:12 < rustyaxe> lovely little truck i just cant afford a wrecked TDI vehicle these days for a donor
2022-12-21T20:35:46 < kaki> for buying thing like engine it's who you know type of deal
2022-12-21T20:36:30 < rustyaxe>  http://istabpeople.com/junk/rabbit/babybeast.jpg
2022-12-21T20:36:38 < rustyaxe> eh you need lot more than engine there
2022-12-21T20:37:05 < rustyaxe> you need rpetty much the whle front half of vehicle.. Engine, dash, lock cylinder + switch, all the harnesses, bcm, etc
2022-12-21T20:37:09 < rustyaxe> Due to immobilizer
2022-12-21T20:37:10 < kaki> hardcore auto hobbyist seem to have always number to this and that guy who knows guy who has one engine laying in shed gib him a pack of beer or something
2022-12-21T20:37:43 < rustyaxe> ive since gtten rid of that obnoxious exhaust that it came with
2022-12-21T20:37:58 < kaki> yeah it's not good
2022-12-21T20:38:10 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/rabbit/muddin1.jpg it loves mud
2022-12-21T20:38:25 < kaki> very cool truck
2022-12-21T20:38:43 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/rabbit/cuttin_grass.jpg easy to load the mower into too lol
2022-12-21T20:41:28 < kaki> load anything that fits into
2022-12-21T20:41:32 < kaki> easy
2022-12-21T20:41:50 < kaki> it's basically knee height
2022-12-21T20:42:16 < kaki> how much 1.9tdi rustyaxe?
2022-12-21T20:42:54 < kaki> do you have accurate steering btw?
2022-12-21T20:44:49 < rustyaxe> accurate? It's manual rack and pinion lol
2022-12-21T20:47:24 < kaki> iirc one I drove had quite an amount of play
2022-12-21T20:52:35 < rustyaxe> it drives well enough for a 1600lb gokart
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2022-12-21T21:33:32 < kaki> also it had no suspension
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2022-12-21T21:33:56 < kaki> it just bounced around endlessly
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2022-12-21T21:38:09 < rustyaxe> ahh mine has good suspension
2022-12-21T21:38:22 < rustyaxe> 600$ worth of toko and bilstein bits
2022-12-21T21:39:00 < rustyaxe> bit of rust and a worn out engine tho.. Hoping this summer to go find someone to do a full rebuild oon the IDI
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2022-12-21T23:29:13 < kaki> did you hear about some granpa in France went to hospital with a granade in his rectum?
2022-12-21T23:33:58 < Steffanx-> Yes I did 
2022-12-21T23:34:04 < rustyaxe> Kinky shit
2022-12-21T23:34:24 < Steffanx-> I think mawk did it
2022-12-21T23:34:49 < rustyaxe> gramps gettin grenades in his ass and i can't even get [redacted] to suck on my balls.. wtf
2022-12-21T23:34:58 < rustyaxe> bet he paid extra.
2022-12-21T23:35:02 < rustyaxe> maybe i'll do that next time
2022-12-21T23:35:53 < Steffanx-> Was a WW1 shell. Lol
2022-12-21T23:36:00 < rustyaxe> There since WWI?
2022-12-21T23:36:04 < rustyaxe> Or just recently installed?
2022-12-21T23:36:17 < Steffanx-> I assume he just put it there.
2022-12-21T23:36:22 < rustyaxe> And why did OM think it a good idea t put it in his bum?
2022-12-21T23:36:35 < rustyaxe> french are even weird than californians i swear
2022-12-21T23:38:36 < Steffanx-> https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/zqw04x/88_yo_french_man_evacuated_a_whole_hospital/
2022-12-21T23:38:47 < Steffanx-> For the graphics
2022-12-21T23:46:38 < rustyaxe> nice, ill be back in a few testing my new hardened install image
2022-12-21T23:58:07 < qyx> in other news, installed a low of different sensors recently during a $project
2022-12-21T23:58:38 < qyx> I wanted to make things easier to do & scan during configuration, so I made some labels for cables
2022-12-21T23:58:50 < qyx> now I found out that datamatrix is not readable when bent
--- Day changed to joulu 22 2022
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2022-12-22T01:41:26 < rustyaxe> well that was exotic
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2022-12-22T02:13:57 < Laurence_b> is dtic down?
2022-12-22T02:14:07 < Laurence_b> or have the b& everyone to stop the ebil russians?
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2022-12-22T02:28:47 < machinehum> Guys
2022-12-22T02:28:52 < machinehum> We're fucked big time
2022-12-22T02:28:54 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/zWQCM9q
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2022-12-22T02:42:15 < rustyaxe> its approaching dangercold
2022-12-22T02:42:35  * rustyaxe prepares to fire up the reactor for heating
2022-12-22T02:43:14 < rustyaxe> maybe this time we will not melt turbine fans
2022-12-22T02:52:42 < kaki> you have turbocharger boiler?
2022-12-22T02:52:49 < kaki> *turbocharged
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2022-12-22T02:55:11 < rustyaxe> It is steam turbine for my reactor. 
2022-12-22T02:58:40 < kaki> reactor
2022-12-22T03:03:37 < kaki> soviets scattered RTGs all around to power weather stations and navigation beacons and whatnot
2022-12-22T03:03:53 < kaki> some are still to be found
2022-12-22T03:04:48 < kaki> it would be such an exotic way to heat up the house
2022-12-22T03:05:05 < kaki> and generate electricity for ircs
2022-12-22T03:06:27 < kaki> US lost at least one in India or was it Nepal
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2022-12-22T03:47:12 < rustyaxe> lost a few in antarctica too
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2022-12-22T11:05:04 < mawk> Steffanx-: it wasn't a grenade it was a shell
2022-12-22T11:05:07 < mawk> much bigger
2022-12-22T11:13:35 < Steffanx-> It was kaki that used the word grenade 😉
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2022-12-22T11:55:33 < jpa-> at least he doesn't have that much left to hear about it for the rest of his life
2022-12-22T11:59:10 < qyx> muziks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cEgsUUhqdlg
2022-12-22T11:59:40 < qyx> also, CATL is starting with na-ion manufacturing?
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2022-12-22T13:36:41 < Laurence_b> is https://apps.dtic.mil/ down for anyone?
2022-12-22T13:39:53 < Streaker> its not exactly down. its sending some erroneous reply.
2022-12-22T13:41:14 < Laurence_b> maybe its broken and staff are on holiday...
2022-12-22T13:41:19 < Laurence_b> or they blocked everyone to stop teh ebil russians
2022-12-22T13:59:57 < mawk> connection reset
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2022-12-22T19:45:08 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/zvaPdcA
2022-12-22T19:46:23 < machinehum> This is insane
2022-12-22T19:47:16 < Steffanx-> Ask it to use that dimmer ic 😋
2022-12-22T19:50:18 < machinehum> Steffanx-: chatgpt is a better ee than me
2022-12-22T20:05:55 < Steffanx-> Yes, so what will it come up with..
2022-12-22T20:06:28 < machinehum> Probably a working dimmer
2022-12-22T20:07:55 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/ZEL5RNd
2022-12-22T20:07:56 < machinehum> hmm
2022-12-22T20:16:28 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z77Y8Vj80HI&ab_channel=FoodAroundTheWorld
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--- Day changed pe joulu 23 2022
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2022-12-23T00:10:08 < kaki> early steff
2022-12-23T00:10:26 < kaki> Steffanx-: trailer is out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6ldnjE3Y0
2022-12-23T00:15:14 < Steffanx-> Didn't know about this movie sir kaki 
2022-12-23T00:16:16 < kaki> do you know about Trinity and beyond (1995)?
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2022-12-23T00:21:11 < englishman> i expect 3 hours of mumbling and grimacing followed by a slow mo explosion taking 5 minutes that cost 300 million dollars to make
2022-12-23T00:22:09 < englishman> there will be a lot of dialogue, but it will be incoherent below the hans zimmer soundtrack
2022-12-23T00:22:31 < englishman> the film will make 1 billion dollars
2022-12-23T00:23:03 < kaki> there needs to be building of anxiety
2022-12-23T00:30:06 < Steffanx-> Yeah sounds about right, englishman 
2022-12-23T00:35:31 < Steffanx-> I dont know kaki. I'm terrible with movie titles. 
2022-12-23T00:36:51 < kaki> the atomic bomb movie
2022-12-23T00:37:00 < kaki> it's like documentary
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2022-12-23T00:44:14 < englishman> narrated by shatner
2022-12-23T00:45:35 < Steffanx-> Maybe kaki can do a voice over.
2022-12-23T00:46:33 < kaki> "yeah something is happening here.. ehm"
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2022-12-23T01:18:22 < kaki> rustyaxe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuj7x4Px6zQ
2022-12-23T01:20:39 < rustyaxe> lol my truck is go 0-60 in ~2 minutes
2022-12-23T01:21:30 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoDDODh5Ras here is the summary of the video
2022-12-23T01:21:59 < ventYl> kaki: i have probably fixed my failing airbag
2022-12-23T01:22:18 < kaki> you found a resistor of right resistance?
2022-12-23T01:22:52 < ventYl> no, bag itself is allright. the issue was poor contact and/or low tension inside connector
2022-12-23T01:23:17 < ventYl> a bit of contact spray and re-tensioned contacts and ECU stopped complaining
2022-12-23T01:24:16 < kaki> sounds like 1.9tdi injector contacts
2022-12-23T01:24:51 < kaki> needed a bit of poking
2022-12-23T01:26:34 < ventYl> I have dropped bag fully connected to steering wheel accidentally. it slipped out of my hands while being mounted
2022-12-23T01:26:51 < ventYl> so those contact probably bent a bit and developed unwanted resistance
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2022-12-23T01:44:16 < karlp> is that a fucking animated cillian murphy!? what is this oppenheimer shit?
2022-12-23T01:44:31 < Mangy_Dog> movie
2022-12-23T01:44:38 < Mangy_Dog> and its not a animated movie
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2022-12-23T01:45:20 < karlp> https://youtu.be/bK6ldnjE3Y0?t=27 looks like a fucking video game.
2022-12-23T01:45:29 < karlp> sure, parts of the rest of it look more normal.
2022-12-23T01:45:35 < karlp> but that's like fallout4 shit.
2022-12-23T01:45:45 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2022-12-23T01:45:49 < Mangy_Dog> looks like film to me :D
2022-12-23T01:46:52 < karlp> sure, but slobberismblah look slike an IDE to you, so not sure you count  ;)
2022-12-23T01:48:17 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2022-12-23T01:48:33 < Mangy_Dog> i want to mvoe away from this ide tbh
2022-12-23T01:48:43 < Mangy_Dog> keep having so many problems with it
2022-12-23T01:48:55 < karlp> I like how for all the talk aout lidar and magical ToF ranging solutions, we still get ads for brand new IR emitters "for use in industrial sensing"
2022-12-23T01:49:16 < ventYl> lidar here, lidar there, lidar everywhere
2022-12-23T01:49:25 < ventYl> 2023 will definitely be the year of lidar, at least in automotive
2022-12-23T01:49:39 < qyx> hey uncle donald had a farm
2022-12-23T01:49:42 < ventYl> I guess fucktards hope, lidar will save their assess
2022-12-23T01:49:43 < qyx> meow ere, meow there
2022-12-23T01:50:05 < zyp> your lidars are boring
2022-12-23T01:50:59 < ventYl> GM had an interesting recall this year. the issue was "open door to brick your instrument cluster"
2022-12-23T01:51:00 < zyp> here's some proper lidars: https://www.andoyaspace.no/what-we-do/science/alomar-observatory
2022-12-23T01:58:40 < englishman> there is a local lidar shop here that has been failing to find a market for 7+ years
2022-12-23T01:59:06 < englishman> still somehow get new investment
2022-12-23T02:00:42 < englishman> very interesting zyp, especially that high altitude uv lidar
2022-12-23T02:01:34 < ventYl> englishman: it is sufficient to market it as AV solution and you'd get moneyz
2022-12-23T02:01:38 < ventYl> up until very recently
2022-12-23T02:02:02 < ventYl> also, there are mergers and OEMs are hunting for lidar shops to buy their own
2022-12-23T02:02:32 < englishman> ah yes the greater fool investment strategy
2022-12-23T02:03:06 < ventYl> partially
2022-12-23T02:03:39 < ventYl> I assume, that the another reason is, that after AI hype in automotive, there is lidar hype in automotive right now
2022-12-23T02:03:55 < ventYl> so now is the best time of converting anything lidar-related into free money
2022-12-23T02:06:38 < ventYl> s/of/for/
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2022-12-23T03:28:07 < catphish_> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd9eggsKM8
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2022-12-23T07:22:03 < jadew> look what I found: https://www.shitexpress.com/
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2022-12-23T12:42:15 < Steffanx-> Thanks jadew 
2022-12-23T14:01:30 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2022-12-23T14:49:30 < benishor> you better not shit on the bed, you son of a bitch
2022-12-23T15:30:31 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2022-12-23T15:32:58 < jadew> Steffanx-, hope it helps
2022-12-23T15:33:55 < jadew> I just got a partial refund from amazon, for something I ordered about 2 years ago
2022-12-23T15:34:12 < jadew> something to do with the export fees
2022-12-23T15:35:09 < jadew> 21 gbp
2022-12-23T15:36:04 < jadew> it's like they decided to get me something for christmas, probably a tool of some sort
2022-12-23T15:38:30 < rustyaxe> i saved 30% on money and 3-4 days per item by switching to ebay. Amazon has gone to shit these days.. 3 day delivery that waits 2 days to ship then gets held a day going from UPS/FedEx to USPS lol
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2022-12-23T15:47:35 < Steffanx-> Is your rustyaxe frozen yet? 
2022-12-23T15:47:54 < Steffanx-> Or is it not cold in the yankeepart of yankeeland?
2022-12-23T15:48:32 < Steffanx-> -40 °C sounds like a temperature.
2022-12-23T15:51:47  * rustyaxe teabags Steffanx- with his frozen bits
2022-12-23T15:52:23 < Steffanx-> Nice temperature *
2022-12-23T15:52:25 < jadew> -40 °C sounds like lack of temperature :P
2022-12-23T15:52:28 < rustyaxe> its -15.7
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2022-12-23T15:53:05 < jadew> rustyaxe, where do you live?
2022-12-23T15:53:35 < Steffanx-> Nice. Sharpened your ice skates yet rustyaxe?
2022-12-23T15:56:04 < rustyaxe> jadew: eastern USA
2022-12-23T15:56:09 < rustyaxe> i dont go outside if it is below 60degF
2022-12-23T15:56:19 < rustyaxe> this is the stay in the house season
2022-12-23T15:56:31 < rustyaxe> There's a whole bunch of cold and fuck that outside
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2022-12-23T16:27:51 < Steffanx-> Below 15.555 °C not outside..  wut?
2022-12-23T16:30:54 < rustyaxe> yea fuck that shit. i dont like cold
2022-12-23T16:31:04 < rustyaxe> thankfully its 80-110degF half the year here
2022-12-23T17:36:06 < qyx> jpa-: https://imgur.com/gallery/AsVeh7p
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2022-12-23T18:28:00 < jpa-> qyx: why tuesday? that looks like any particularly warm and bright day
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2022-12-23T20:37:42 < kaki> early christmas
2022-12-23T20:38:07 < Steffanx-> Got some shit delivered?
2022-12-23T20:42:54 < kaki> no
2022-12-23T20:43:05 < kaki> I just announced myself to the channel
2022-12-23T20:43:16 < kaki> and announced christmas
2022-12-23T20:43:33 < kaki> but it's not christmas yet
2022-12-23T20:43:41 < kaki> so I said early
2022-12-23T20:49:24 < kaki> and I'm early
2022-12-23T20:55:38 < fenugrec> englishman how are the winds
2022-12-23T20:55:56 < fenugrec> got 90-100km/h this morning, seems to have calmed down some
2022-12-23T20:55:57 < englishman> ferocious
2022-12-23T20:56:20 < englishman> had to go out once to dig some toyota out of a snowdrift
2022-12-23T20:56:30 < englishman> then a ridgeline got stuck next to it
2022-12-23T20:56:42 < fenugrec> heh
2022-12-23T20:58:40 < englishman> nothing has blown over yet, i prepped well last night i guess
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2022-12-23T21:51:19 < kaki> hmm
2022-12-23T21:51:33 < kaki> fast wind means high snow drifts
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2022-12-23T21:54:49 < Mangy_Dog> anyone know a simple way to trigger a softwware reset (in software) on a stm32?
2022-12-23T21:55:02 < Mangy_Dog> ideally with the annoying arduino abstration thingy i use
2022-12-23T21:57:34 < jpa-> sysresetreq
2022-12-23T21:58:47 < jpa-> NVIC_SystemReset() function  is often available
2022-12-23T22:01:36 < kaki> just induce busfault and expect default handler to hit reset
2022-12-23T22:02:28 < kaki> (non ideal approach)
2022-12-23T22:03:04 < kaki> can you always induce bus fault?
2022-12-23T22:05:36 < PaulFertser> kaki: default handler hits the infinite loop
2022-12-23T22:06:15 < kaki> ah..
2022-12-23T22:06:30 < kaki> my approach had faulty assumptions
2022-12-23T22:06:54 < kaki> I never hit default handler so I don't know
2022-12-23T22:07:51 < kaki> unless I do then debug and forget
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2022-12-23T22:08:39 < kaki> shouldn't your default handler be loop in DDEBUG and reset in production?
2022-12-23T22:08:46 < kaki> would make sense maybe
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2022-12-23T22:12:13 < PaulFertser> kaki: in production you should have watchdog enabled.
2022-12-23T22:12:27 < kaki> ye
2022-12-23T22:33:48 < Steffanx-> Should have 😋
2022-12-23T22:47:43 < Mangy_Dog> tried both of those already jpa
2022-12-23T22:49:42 < qyx> lolshould
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2022-12-23T22:53:02 < qyx> would you trust stm32 for doing overcurrent protection with a timer break input connected to comparator output internally?
2022-12-23T22:56:48 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: theres that old answer         *((unsigned long*)0xE000ED0C) = 0x05FA0004;
2022-12-23T22:57:25 < qyx> it works but I never investigated what does it do :>
2022-12-23T22:57:34 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2022-12-23T22:57:40 < Mangy_Dog> i was about to ask what exsactly is that doing?
2022-12-23T22:58:34 < qyx> or enable IWDG and while (true) ;
2022-12-23T22:59:07 < qyx> or the more appropriate way mentioned above
2022-12-23T22:59:38 < Mangy_Dog> which watch dog?
2022-12-23T23:00:02 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: does NVIC_SystemReset not work?
2022-12-23T23:00:09 < Mangy_Dog> nope
2022-12-23T23:00:15 < PaulFertser> What happens?
2022-12-23T23:00:18 < Mangy_Dog> unrecognised
2022-12-23T23:00:46 < Mangy_Dog> function could not be resolved
2022-12-23T23:01:02 < qyx> probably because you are using the weird one man thing
2022-12-23T23:01:29 < Mangy_Dog> rogerclarks core yes
2022-12-23T23:01:49 < Mangy_Dog> i have wondered how much pain it would be to convert this all to locm3
2022-12-23T23:02:03 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect
2022-12-23T23:02:04 < Mangy_Dog> much
2022-12-23T23:02:07 < Mangy_Dog> much much pain
2022-12-23T23:02:28 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: just hardcode sysresetreq then like qyx suggested.
2022-12-23T23:02:46 < Mangy_Dog>  *((unsigned long*)0xE000ED0C) = 0x05FA0004;?
2022-12-23T23:02:49 < PaulFertser> Yes
2022-12-23T23:03:02 < Mangy_Dog> id still prefer to know what thats actually doing
2022-12-23T23:03:29 < Mangy_Dog> ie is it designed to reset or is it actually breakign something in the regestry
2022-12-23T23:03:34 < Mangy_Dog> register
2022-12-23T23:03:56 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: writes to AIRCR register, sets that 0x5fA value plus the sysresetreq bit.
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2022-12-23T23:04:33 < Mangy_Dog> ahhh so is just triggering a designed reset then
2022-12-23T23:13:39 < Mangy_Dog> thankies all
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2022-12-23T23:28:18 < kaki> watchdog idea is good
2022-12-23T23:28:42 < kaki> if all else fails
2022-12-23T23:28:54 < kaki> if you can control the feeding of watchdog
2022-12-23T23:29:05 < Steffanx-> assuming this is what you are using. then its called "nvic_sys_reset" Mangy_Dog 
2022-12-23T23:29:06 < Steffanx-> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/blob/bab4fda0fa31ba2d1f91f45329843d2df77da74b/STM32F1/cores/maple/libmaple/nvic.c#L97
2022-12-23T23:29:49 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh you found it :D
2022-12-23T23:29:54 < Mangy_Dog> thankies as well :D
2022-12-23T23:30:43 < PaulFertser> Why does prigroup need to be kept?
2022-12-23T23:31:56 < PaulFertser> OpenOCD doesn't do it but nobody complained, why?
2022-12-23T23:35:29 < Steffanx-> cmsis seems to do it too and people asked apparently https://github.com/ARM-software/CMSIS_5/issues/302
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2022-12-23T23:36:47 < PaulFertser> That's some bullshit answer.
2022-12-23T23:38:45 < PaulFertser> Fuck, I'm angry now.
2022-12-23T23:39:07 < Steffanx-> lol why be angry
2022-12-23T23:40:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx-: because NXP and ARM clearly could give a definite precise answer.
2022-12-23T23:41:57 < PaulFertser> It's also unclear now if OpenOCD should do the same or not.
2022-12-23T23:42:15 < qyx> when requesting a system reset, why bother if some weird RTOS crashes few instructions beforehand?
2022-12-23T23:43:16 < PaulFertser> Yes, why? The daplink ticket implies that in this case reset might not happen?
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2022-12-23T23:59:38 < Mangy_Dog> woohooo
2022-12-23T23:59:40 < Mangy_Dog> thats all working
2022-12-23T23:59:58 < Mangy_Dog> i think i have one very last thing to do, that might even be done in 10 minutes
--- Day changed la joulu 24 2022
2022-12-24T00:00:12 < Mangy_Dog> then tricorder code will be complete
2022-12-24T00:00:14 < Mangy_Dog> for this version
2022-12-24T00:03:25 < Steffanx-> for now.
2022-12-24T00:03:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/last.bug.html
2022-12-24T00:03:41 < Mangy_Dog> hehe indeed
2022-12-24T00:03:49 < Mangy_Dog> in both cases
2022-12-24T00:05:00 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i just remembered there is one other little bug i need to fix
2022-12-24T00:05:19 < Mangy_Dog> but tbh ive just spent the last 2 weeks fixing one small little bug i thought would be quick D:
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2022-12-24T00:17:48 < englishman> fenugrec: not letting up a bit, here
2022-12-24T00:18:12 < fenugrec> it's turned to shit/rain a while back
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2022-12-24T00:23:31 < Steffanx-> So PaulFertser will not sleep before he get a proper answer? Im no expert either, so.. would like to know too :P
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2022-12-24T00:29:58 < qyx> zyp: is your scope still saleworthy?
2022-12-24T00:32:56 < qyx> I forgot what exactly it is, I am trying to find anything legit with 4x60 MHz or so
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2022-12-24T00:45:19 < zyp> DS1042C
2022-12-24T00:45:46 < zyp> but it believes it's a DS1102C
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2022-12-24T00:46:23 < zyp> but I don't think it's worth selling
2022-12-24T00:49:00 < zyp> right now I have it sitting at the office, but I'm probably gonna bring it to the hobby workshop at some point, because I figure it could be convenient to have a scope there without having to bring the MSO5k
2022-12-24T00:58:49 < qyx> I will probably get some older riglol or tek, I don't trust that owon because it is owon
2022-12-24T00:59:02 < qyx> also I have it since my uni days, it is quite old
2022-12-24T00:59:07 < qyx> 10-12 years probably
2022-12-24T00:59:37 < zyp> I've had the DS1042C for over 14
2022-12-24T01:16:25 < kaki> I have DS1042
2022-12-24T01:16:40 < kaki> it refuses to stop working
2022-12-24T01:17:03 < kaki> I left it in flooded car for a winter and summer to be heat cycled and moisturized
2022-12-24T01:17:57 < kaki> imagine moldy car that has windows fogging up - from inside
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2022-12-24T08:13:28 < jpa-> qyx: because if the RTOS crashes then you never get to the reset?
2022-12-24T08:22:07 < jpa-> (and when doing it through the debugger, you might end up in a breakpoint or anything before the reset gets executed, if it executes newly-released interrupts first)
2022-12-24T08:48:48 < qyx>  I am not getting it, why should it crash at the instant you requested a reset? you are doing that in a single write, why should the core wait for anything?
2022-12-24T08:48:52 < qyx> does it wait?
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2022-12-24T13:42:42 < jpa-> qyx: good question, i'm not sure what should happen if PRIGROUP change enables an interrupt at the same time as it does request a reset
2022-12-24T14:14:10 < benishor> https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cl0oJyeDHBz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
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2022-12-24T14:31:50 < zyp> I believe SYSRESETREQ is an external signal from the CPU core that gets hooked up to vendor reset logic
2022-12-24T14:32:23 < zyp> so it's probably implementation defined how many cycles that'll execute from it's asserted until the CPU is reset
2022-12-24T14:32:28 < zyp> i.e. it might be nonzero
2022-12-24T14:38:12 < PaulFertser> Hm, so the idea is that the target might get to do something really bad in those few cycles but then reset anyway?
2022-12-24T14:50:45 < PaulFertser> That's not what https://github.com/ARMmbed/DAPLink/pull/362#issuecomment-350356905 seems to imply.
2022-12-24T15:22:01 < catphish> can stm32 USART operate as a synchronous serial slave?
2022-12-24T15:22:45 < catphish> ie to transmit based on the other device's clock?
2022-12-24T15:25:29 < zyp> I'd assume so
2022-12-24T15:26:19 < catphish> i assumed so to, but i tried to look it up and i can't find any reference to such a thing in the manual
2022-12-24T15:28:03 < zyp> depending on your chip family, you can set CR2.SLVEN to enable synchronous slave mode
2022-12-24T15:28:24 < zyp> at least that's how the new USARTs work (taken from g0 manual)
2022-12-24T15:37:41 < catphish> yeah, i wonder if this only exists in newer devices
2022-12-24T15:40:08 < zyp> hmm, yeah, looks like USARTv1 only does clock for transmission
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2022-12-24T17:16:00 < jpa-> PaulFertser: in debugger situation, i would assume it could be an incoming "breakpoint hit" message when it is waiting for reset to complete
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2022-12-24T17:32:35 < fenugrec> PSA: don't do zero-cross switching for a power transformer; https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=13C3206_AppNote&DocType=CS&DocLang=EN
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2022-12-24T19:17:07 < PaulFertser> jpa-: sorry, I do not follow
2022-12-24T19:17:56 < jpa-> i don't really know either, just speculating :)
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2022-12-24T21:16:05 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3sJB2tcoJY&ab_channel=Lecktor
2022-12-24T21:19:45 < Steffanx-> Are you a trekkie sir benishor ?
2022-12-24T21:24:16 < benishor> TNG is my style, yes
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--- Day changed su joulu 25 2022
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2022-12-25T15:17:37 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFklqHF5WIAMHRsw.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-12-25T16:10:10 < Steffanx-> Merry Xmas to you Laurence_b 
2022-12-25T16:11:40 < Laurence_b> you too
2022-12-25T17:46:03 < Mangy_Dog> merry chrsistmas one and all
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2022-12-25T18:56:34 < benishor> merry xmas, you old farts
2022-12-25T19:03:02 < jpa-> what makes us old?
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2022-12-25T20:01:45 < Steffanx-> You're a little older for sure benishor 
2022-12-25T20:01:53 < Steffanx-> < 35 is young.
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--- Day changed ma joulu 26 2022
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2022-12-26T00:19:11 < Laurence_b> trolls found my profile https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFkqoe4tX0AAxcyL.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2022-12-26T10:08:56 < BrainDamage> iridium has plans now that fall into "human costs", but the data sizes are a bit abysmal https://www.groundcontrol.com/en/products/iridium/short-burst-data-range/
2022-12-26T10:10:25 < BrainDamage> "human affordable costs"*
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2022-12-26T15:31:49 < karlp> I mena, yes, I agree, that's more into human costs, but yeah, still pretty fucking gnarly pricing.
2022-12-26T15:31:56 < karlp> you've got to really need that sort of thing.
2022-12-26T15:33:46 < jpa-> also costly transmitters that only work outdoors
2022-12-26T15:33:59 < karlp> indeed
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2022-12-26T16:16:35 < englishman> Globalstar has some interesting products, and you can get an idea of pricing from their standard products, but there isn’t much else on the website. Apple uses their stuff in the latest phones and expects to be most of their revenue. https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/service-plans https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/products/iot
2022-12-26T16:17:19 < englishman> rather the same pricing it seems
2022-12-26T16:39:25 < zyp> hmm, we're using globalstar in one of the products we make
2022-12-26T16:39:32 < zyp> no idea how the pricing for that looks though
2022-12-26T16:40:34 < zyp> this sort of shit: https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/products/iot/stx3
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2022-12-26T22:26:06 < qyx> super niche unless you are crawling amazon rainforests
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2022-12-26T23:29:00 < kaki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
2022-12-26T23:29:35 < kaki> "Terra preta soils were created by farming communities between 450 BCE and 950 CE.[10][11][12] Soil depths can reach 2 meters (6.6 ft)"
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2022-12-26T23:38:04 < kaki> dope
2022-12-26T23:38:31 < kaki> pyramids and shit
--- Day changed ti joulu 27 2022
2022-12-27T00:22:56 < karlp> whoever linked that zero crossing transfomer switching shit, fenugrec? isn't that one of the same things machinehum was running into with leading vs trailing edge dimmers?
2022-12-27T00:23:23 < machinehum> karlp: Hello
2022-12-27T00:32:57 < karlp> why are the scope traces in that app note "read right to left" ?!
2022-12-27T00:44:16 < qyx> when doing a sw driven PWM buck, how would you prevent reverse current flow?
2022-12-27T00:45:19 < qyx> Methods to Eliminate Damage Caused by Reverse Current
2022-12-27T00:45:20 < qyx> in Synchronous Buck Converters
2022-12-27T00:45:25 < qyx> SLUA962
2022-12-27T00:45:31 < qyx> seems relevant
2022-12-27T00:48:17 < qyx> ok not at all
2022-12-27T00:57:49 < qyx> LN74700 with a mosfet use
2022-12-27T00:57:52 < qyx> will I
2022-12-27T00:57:58 < qyx> *LM
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2022-12-27T16:51:22 < bitmask> happy holidays!
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2022-12-27T17:09:32 < bitmask> fine, be that way
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2022-12-27T17:43:23 < benishor> \o/
2022-12-27T17:43:53 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyaXv1ZhY8&ab_channel=allsepulturalives
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2022-12-27T17:56:34 < Steffanx-> Bye bitmask 
2022-12-27T17:56:41 < bitmask> where ya goin?
2022-12-27T17:56:47 < bitmask> have fun!
2022-12-27T17:57:01 < bitmask> wear a condom
2022-12-27T17:59:14 < rustyaxe> if only your father had... Твоя мать должна была съесть тебя, пока твои кости были еще мягкими.
2022-12-27T18:00:37 < bitmask> your mother shouldn't have eaten your boner
2022-12-27T18:07:00 < Steffanx-> Idk I expected you would be leaving
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2022-12-27T19:09:16 < bitmask> nope, just workin on implementing shadow maps
2022-12-27T19:48:09 < bitmask> yeaaaa shadows
2022-12-27T19:48:10 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/OsT8oUZ.png
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2022-12-27T21:13:01 < bitmask> ugh, im really not looking forward to going outside for like 2 hours
2022-12-27T21:13:07 < bitmask> damn car
2022-12-27T21:13:19 < bitmask> at least its above freezing
2022-12-27T21:13:24 < bitmask> i guess...
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2022-12-27T22:18:05 < bitmask> wtf. I haven't been driving my car because the check engine light came on, I fixed what it said the problem was (faulty transmission range sensor so i replaced it) but the check engine light was still on. I would have thought maybe I just needed to drive around a bit until it ran the test again but I thought I didn't fix it because it was sticking sometimes going from drive to neutral. well weather and holidays and stuff went by
2022-12-27T22:18:05 < bitmask>  and the battery died. I jumped it with my battery pack and no check engine light... drove around for like 20 min and still nothing. it does still stick sometimes but maybe the range sensor is just very slightly misaligned? it has those long type holes for adjusting and I didnt realize that when taking the original off so I didnt take note of the position.
2022-12-27T22:18:13 < bitmask> that was a lot, but any car people have any ideas?
2022-12-27T22:20:20 < qyx> I guess the error log needed to be reset but ventYl knows more
2022-12-27T22:20:44 < qyx> or kaki
2022-12-27T22:26:37 < bitmask> i guess i just gotta decide if i wanna take the wheel off again and try to realign the sensor
2022-12-27T22:27:40 < bitmask> the worst part is jacking up the car with the shitty jack cars come with :P
2022-12-27T22:29:09 < bitmask> ugh, im gonna do it, bbl
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2022-12-27T23:30:59 < kaki> bitmask: don't go under the car if you have only the shitty jack
2022-12-27T23:37:24 < qyx> too late?
--- Day changed ke joulu 28 2022
2022-12-28T00:00:45 < kaki> yeah
2022-12-28T00:01:02 < kaki> rip
2022-12-28T00:02:52 < bitmask> haha
2022-12-28T00:03:00 < bitmask> i dont have to go under, just in the wheel well
2022-12-28T00:04:16 < bitmask> so i tried aligning it again, came out worse than ever, after a minute it didnt detect any gears that it was in. it was already getting dark but I couldnt leave it like that so i tried again and im hopeful.  I barely tested it because I was tired of working on it but the gear lights were perfectly responsive, no sticking on any gear shifts and no check engine light
2022-12-28T00:06:06 < bitmask> so even if it starts acting up again, I can at least be pretty sure aligning this stupid thing is the problem
2022-12-28T00:09:28 < zyp> protip: buy a car without gear shifting
2022-12-28T00:10:13 < bitmask> what, like an electric?
2022-12-28T00:11:06 < bitmask> this really isnt a big deal, its easy enough to get to but I just didnt know how sensitive it was so I didnt pay attention when I took off the broken one. 
2022-12-28T00:12:04 < zyp> yeah
2022-12-28T00:12:50 < bitmask> the question now is, since I bought the tools to fix this, should I just change my own brake pads
2022-12-28T00:13:04 < bitmask> $50 vs...
2022-12-28T00:13:15 < zyp> if they need changing, why not?
2022-12-28T00:13:20 < bitmask> yea they do
2022-12-28T00:13:31 < zyp> then why is it a question?
2022-12-28T00:13:42 < bitmask> i guess this problem got to me a bit
2022-12-28T00:13:52 < bitmask> but i dont think brake pads will have an issue like that
2022-12-28T00:13:55 < bitmask> so i should be good
2022-12-28T00:14:07 < zyp> depends a bit how the calipers are designed
2022-12-28T00:14:18 < bitmask> i watched a youtube video or two and it looks easy
2022-12-28T00:15:15 < bitmask> undo some screws, take the caliper off, toss old pads, use something to force the caliper open, apply grease to back of new pads, reassemble
2022-12-28T00:15:34 < zyp> pretty much
2022-12-28T00:16:01 < zyp> on the old volvo I had I didn't even need to take the caliper off, just remove two pins that held the pads
2022-12-28T00:16:22 < zyp> on the golf, calipers have to come off
2022-12-28T00:16:33 < zyp> easy on the front wheels, more hassle for the back wheels
2022-12-28T00:16:46 < bitmask> why is that
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2022-12-28T00:19:24 < zyp> because removing the front calipers takes a couple of seconds with an impact wrench, but the screws holding the rear calipers are much less accessible
2022-12-28T00:19:42 < zyp> so you need to dick around from the back with a nonstandard allan key
2022-12-28T00:19:58 < bitmask> ahh
2022-12-28T00:20:04 < kaki> got the combo last night
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2022-12-28T00:20:16 < kaki> 4x4, ABS and DSC lights on
2022-12-28T00:20:42 < kaki> luckilly it was just a wheelspeed sensor and I had one in the trunk
2022-12-28T00:22:32 < kaki> thing doesn't have any redundance - one sensor goes and the controllers cannot tell the kinetic state of the thing anymore
2022-12-28T00:23:16 < kaki> transfer case has 0 sensors, gearbox 0
2022-12-28T00:23:22 < kaki> only wheels
2022-12-28T00:25:16 < kaki> just add 50% more sensors and one can fail
2022-12-28T00:25:22 < bitmask> :)
2022-12-28T00:25:54 < kaki> if controller can tell which is faulty
2022-12-28T00:26:07 < bitmask> this is weird, do any lights behave like this?
2022-12-28T00:26:08 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/OsT8oUZ.png
2022-12-28T00:26:28 < bitmask> near plane at least
2022-12-28T00:26:34 < bitmask> or point i should say
2022-12-28T00:27:10 < bitmask> i should change it from perspective to ortho so the light is all parallel
2022-12-28T00:29:03 < bitmask> i guess it should fade out
2022-12-28T00:29:31 < bitmask> i dont really feel like working on shadows though, blah
2022-12-28T00:31:44 < bitmask> no interest in graphics here I guess :/
2022-12-28T00:35:22 < kaki> no interest in drawing shadows
2022-12-28T00:35:28 < kaki> very cumbersome
2022-12-28T00:36:01 < machinehum> You guys have a goto normal lo temp solder paste?
2022-12-28T00:36:11 < machinehum> There's a zillion different types and mixes and shit
2022-12-28T00:36:19 < machinehum> I just want a normal one that's good on digikey
2022-12-28T00:36:24 < rustyaxe> the good leaded stuff :P
2022-12-28T00:36:42 < machinehum> I see
2022-12-28T00:37:06 < machinehum> Typcically I avoid leaded solder, and I'm reflowing in my kichen
2022-12-28T00:37:08 < kaki> SN62
2022-12-28T00:37:37 < rustyaxe> lead solder is fine just dont eat it
2022-12-28T00:37:55 < machinehum> Yeah, I guess the fumes don't contain lead...
2022-12-28T00:37:56 < kaki> lead can stain your fingers probs
2022-12-28T00:38:13 < kaki> but I'm not worried about vaporizing
2022-12-28T00:38:49 < kaki> ofc flux cores can have interesting smells
2022-12-28T00:39:27 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/z5bT5d3
2022-12-28T00:39:33 < machinehum> My options
2022-12-28T00:39:35 < machinehum> kaki: you
2022-12-28T00:39:42 < machinehum> you're saying a SN62*
2022-12-28T00:39:56 < kaki> sn63 could do
2022-12-28T00:40:06 < kaki> it's basically samesame
2022-12-28T00:40:07 < machinehum> I mean I could go to Mouser
2022-12-28T00:40:31 < kaki> sn62 mayb is the one with some Ag in it cannot remember
2022-12-28T00:40:53 < kaki> yeah Ag02
2022-12-28T00:41:14 < kaki> Sn63 is the standard leaded solder
2022-12-28T01:04:10 < machinehum> hmm
2022-12-28T01:04:23 < machinehum> 361F melting point you say
2022-12-28T01:08:37 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/chip-quik-inc/TS391LT10/7802221
2022-12-28T01:08:41 < machinehum> That is what I was using before
2022-12-28T01:09:01 < machinehum> I guess that won't flow as well as the lead
2022-12-28T01:19:25 < kaki> flux is critical part of good wetting
2022-12-28T01:27:12 < Steffanx-> That's what she said 
2022-12-28T01:29:21 < bitmask> oh snap!
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2022-12-28T11:56:29 < qyx> nah my LSE fails to start sometimes
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2022-12-28T14:22:24 < benishor> might want some praising
2022-12-28T14:22:29 < benishor> try telling it how good it is
2022-12-28T14:22:41 < benishor> and that without it things wouldn't work
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2022-12-28T15:37:05 < veverak> god damn it I am blind
2022-12-28T15:37:57 < veverak> I want to setup pernament configuration for a project (persistent ocnfig between boots) and afaik the keyword is "eeprom emulation" when working with stm32g4
2022-12-28T15:38:00 < veverak> but
2022-12-28T15:38:14 < veverak> I can't find in which .h file from the oficial HAL the API for this is
2022-12-28T15:38:18 < veverak> I know I found it once...
2022-12-28T15:39:42 < veverak> any tips?
2022-12-28T15:50:32 < Steffanx-> isnt that in x-cube-eeprom something?
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2022-12-28T15:58:02 < veverak> *outside of stm32cube
2022-12-28T15:58:05 < veverak> (I am not using that)
2022-12-28T16:00:04 < jpa-> have you studied AN4894 already?
2022-12-28T16:01:12 < Steffanx-> You were looking for some api. x-cube-eeprom is the libary they provide...
2022-12-28T16:01:34 < veverak> aaaah, that's how it is
2022-12-28T16:01:36 < Steffanx-> And since cube is the official API nowadays.
2022-12-28T16:02:03 < veverak> I thought it would be somewhere here https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeG4/
2022-12-28T16:02:56 < Steffanx-> wuut why this eeprom lib cube crap is 735 MB
2022-12-28T16:06:37 < kaki> is there desktop version of that google translate thing that translates stuff in photos
2022-12-28T16:08:59 < jpa-> kaki: https://lens.google/
2022-12-28T16:09:13 < jpa-> err
2022-12-28T16:09:15 < kaki> perfect
2022-12-28T16:09:22 < kaki> thanks
2022-12-28T16:09:28 < jpa-> https://images.google.com/  apparently the search input box is here
2022-12-28T16:09:43 < jpa-> maybe on that page also somewhere but it tries to push the android app on lens.google
2022-12-28T16:10:31 < kaki> well maybe I just use my phone to translate the photos then
2022-12-28T16:10:50 < jpa-> works for me though when i select "search by picture" and upload photo using images.google.com
2022-12-28T16:12:41 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZcJjC9nCHs musics
2022-12-28T16:16:25 < kaki> hmm lens wants to use "Google" app
2022-12-28T16:16:53 < kaki> apparently I have disabled it
2022-12-28T16:17:41 < kaki> why tho.. google play services is the spyware / adware component
2022-12-28T16:18:00 < jpa-> google app pushes advertisements to your start screen etc. crap
2022-12-28T16:19:04 < kaki> isn't google app the search bar thing in your default screen
2022-12-28T16:20:26 < jpa-> among other things
2022-12-28T16:22:03 < kaki> size of lens app was 8kB
2022-12-28T16:22:54 < kaki> it a non-app
2022-12-28T16:23:09 < kaki> actually opening the app opens this google app thing
2022-12-28T16:26:49 < kaki> now I need to save the results using share button
2022-12-28T16:27:11 < kaki> better get used to it
2022-12-28T16:27:22 < kaki> save button will be replaced by share button
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2022-12-28T16:36:27 < jpa-> share this image with future you
2022-12-28T16:37:39 < kaki> basically
2022-12-28T16:57:08 < kaki> that is how things work in future
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2022-12-28T17:19:53 < qyx> I disabled google play services and then I got notifications like "phone does not work without google apps services"
2022-12-28T17:19:58 < qyx> "messages does not work.."
2022-12-28T17:20:04 < qyx> camera does not work .."
2022-12-28T17:20:18 < qyx> everything worked of course but some of the notifications couldn't be muted
2022-12-28T17:20:46 < qyx> I was pretty angry with "phone notifications settings blocked" or what was the exact message
2022-12-28T17:21:05 < qyx> f*ck the whole android, it is getting worse every day
2022-12-28T17:23:30 < Steffanx-> Poor qyx.
2022-12-28T17:24:15 < rustyaxe> how's google gonna make money without hteir spyware, qyx ?
2022-12-28T17:26:49 < qyx> I needed to install a single app that is available only on google play, so I needed to enter my gmailz credentials
2022-12-28T17:27:03 < PaulFertser> qyx: huh, Aurora Store not working for you?
2022-12-28T17:27:19 < qyx> the whole thing came crazy instantly, copying things, syncing contacts
2022-12-28T17:27:28 < qyx> installed the app, removed the account
2022-12-28T17:27:47 < qyx> (oh and the account cannot be removed if you have a screen lock enabled, very intuitive to find outň
2022-12-28T17:28:37 < qyx> so I had to disable screen locks first, remove the account, reenable everything, and spend like half an hour disabling google sh.. again, because the play thing reenabled all the spyware
2022-12-28T17:29:06 < qyx> if there was a working lineage, I would have used that
2022-12-28T17:31:43 < PaulFertser> qyx: Aurora Store allows to download any app that is free, without a google account.
2022-12-28T17:32:49 < qyx> I am using f-droid for 95% of apps I use
2022-12-28T17:32:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: of course
2022-12-28T17:32:59 < qyx> the only one not on f-droid is squid
2022-12-28T17:33:11 < qyx> does the aurora thing work without including spyware?
2022-12-28T17:33:46 < qyx> https://f-droid.org/packages/com.aurora.store/
2022-12-28T17:33:49 < qyx> this one?
2022-12-28T17:33:57 < PaulFertser> qyx: afaict, yes. You download it from f-droid, then use it for anonymous access to google play.
2022-12-28T17:34:07 < qyx> oh great, I didn't know that
2022-12-28T17:39:23 < BrainDamage> you can use it even for paid apps, but you might get banned
2022-12-28T17:48:28 < PaulFertser> https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/cf8vbj/has_anyone_actually_been_banned_or_suspended_for/ no reports so far. And you can download paid apps only when you have an account apparently.
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2022-12-28T17:56:37 < BrainDamage> that's correct, the paid apps are associated with the account
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2022-12-28T18:48:19 < bitmask> good morning
2022-12-28T19:00:00 < Steffanx-> Gooday sir.
2022-12-28T19:00:06 < Steffanx-> Merry xmas
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2022-12-28T19:12:31 < bitmask> to you as well and happy new year
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2022-12-28T19:39:57 < qyx> let the shortage become history
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2022-12-28T20:27:13 < kaki> how is shortage?
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2022-12-28T20:27:22 < Laurence_b> https://community.nxp.com/t5/MCUXpresso-General/LittleFS-and-FatFS/m-p/898741#:~:text=LittleFS%20is%20unfortunately%20unusable.%20Even%20the%20latest%20version,the%20way%20the%20file%20blocks%20are%20strung%20together.
2022-12-28T20:27:23 < Laurence_b> based
2022-12-28T20:27:30 < kaki> havent been doing anything so I don't know the shortage
2022-12-28T20:28:24 < qyx> kaki: stm32 stock is somewhat back in normal
2022-12-28T20:28:30 < kaki> MCUXpresso!
2022-12-28T20:35:38 < Steffanx-> keep your pants on kaki .
2022-12-28T20:35:57 < Steffanx-> mcuxpresso is the same shit as the cube and what not
2022-12-28T20:39:43 < qyx> lol
2022-12-28T20:52:16 < kaki> nope
2022-12-28T20:52:57 < kaki> personally I like microchip studio most
2022-12-28T21:01:42 < Steffanx-> Except that it run on some very old visual studio core
2022-12-28T21:01:45 < Steffanx-> and hangs all the time
2022-12-28T21:03:45 < qyx> warning: ISO C does not support '[[]]' attributes before C2X [-Wpedantic]
2022-12-28T21:03:49 < qyx> sad panda
2022-12-28T21:08:38 < zyp> aww
2022-12-28T21:10:44 < zyp> -std=c2x has been supported since gcc9
2022-12-28T21:15:59 < qyx> I am still at c99
2022-12-28T21:16:29 < qyx> but probably it is the right time to move on
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2022-12-28T23:08:04 < kaki> why tho
2022-12-28T23:08:09 < kaki> you are using C99
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2022-12-29T03:41:20 < fenugrec> karlp, I was also puzzled by "the scope traces read right to left"... like what, is this a chart plotter that goes backwards ? wtf
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2022-12-29T03:59:51 < upgrdman> anyone use win11? how do you like it compared to 10? im tempting to format and start over fresh, not sure if i should stick with 10 or try 11.
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2022-12-29T14:21:02 < qyx> cmsis-dsp pros, I have int32_t integer array
2022-12-29T14:21:25 < qyx> can I use arm_mean_q31 simply by casting it to (q31_t *)?
2022-12-29T14:21:29 < qyx> and then back
2022-12-29T14:21:40 < qyx> it yields me 0 whatever I do
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2022-12-29T16:31:04 < c10ud> isn't q31 supposed to be [0;1] ?
2022-12-29T16:33:36 < c10ud> probably [-1;1]
2022-12-29T16:38:09 < qyx> yes but the compiler doesn't know that
2022-12-29T16:38:43 < qyx> of course assigning int32_t to it gives some fractional nonsense
2022-12-29T16:39:00 < qyx> but the mean() algo computes mean of the fractional nonsense and then it is converted back
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2022-12-29T17:30:18 < qyx> omg ST has a new web
2022-12-29T17:30:25 < qyx> with a video in the background
2022-12-29T17:36:26 < Steffanx-> oh joy
2022-12-29T17:36:47 < Steffanx-> it doesnt even do audio!
2022-12-29T17:36:49 < Steffanx-> ?!
2022-12-29T17:38:04 < Steffanx-> i wonder how many meeting they had to get to this new wonderful yellow border of the menu.
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2022-12-29T20:26:26 < Steffanx-> what did you do laurenceb? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11580961/GP-practice-tells-hundreds-patients-LUNG-CANCER-instead-Merry-Christmas.html
2022-12-29T20:31:26 < mawk> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/artificial-incompetence
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2022-12-29T23:55:46 < bitmask> wut wut? in the butt!
2022-12-29T23:55:49 < bitmask> fixed muh car
--- Day changed pe joulu 30 2022
2022-12-30T00:00:26 < Steffanx-> I'm proud of you 
2022-12-30T00:17:42 < ventYl> what was wrong with it?
2022-12-30T00:21:26 < catphish_> i fixed a car today too.
2022-12-30T00:23:36 < ventYl> i extended my knowledge on automotive diagnostics, but that did not fix any car yet
2022-12-30T00:31:45 < catphish_> today's fix was that 3 circuits had their polarity reversed, including this particular embarrassing display of splicing: https://i.imgur.com/86AlyoJ.jpg
2022-12-30T00:32:14 < catphish_> i don't know how you can possibly do that by accident and not notice...
2022-12-30T00:32:48 < qyx> is that your converted car?
2022-12-30T00:32:54 < catphish_> it's somebody else's
2022-12-30T00:32:56 < qyx> those orange conduits looks somewhat familiar
2022-12-30T00:33:13 < catphish_> probably the same orange conduit :)
2022-12-30T00:33:23 < catphish_> fortunately, the device fed by that 600VDC line had reverse polarity protection!
2022-12-30T00:42:17 < zyp> I ran a new power cable for the hobby workshop today
2022-12-30T00:43:27 < zyp> found the people who ran the old cables did some creative tricks
2022-12-30T00:43:30 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QorKT.jpg
2022-12-30T00:46:38 < qyx> not that bad
2022-12-30T00:46:54 < zyp> not really, but I had a laugh when I saw it :)
2022-12-30T00:47:33 < zyp> they're mostly held in place by those metal panels
2022-12-30T00:48:14 < zyp> I opted to not just run the new one along with them to avoid thermal derating
2022-12-30T00:49:25 < zyp> especially since the new cable is PEX insulated and rated for higher currents than PVC insulated cables since they can withstand higher temps (90°C)
2022-12-30T00:52:19 < zyp> that cable is 16mm2 and would be rated for 100A in free air, not sure exactly what it's rated for mounted like that, but I believe it'd be good enough for the 80A breaker my panel got
2022-12-30T00:52:38 < zyp> if I stuffed it in with the other cables, I believe it'd be derated below that
2022-12-30T00:55:59 < zyp> ran it along the ceiling across the neighboring warehouse which appeared to be split into storage sections for three different tenants
2022-12-30T00:57:36 < zyp> one of the sections contained a literal pile (2-3m tall) of old electronics; PA gear, CRT monitors, even spotted one of those old rental VHS players in a suitcase that was a thing when I were in kindergarden
2022-12-30T01:00:07 < zyp> had to run the cable across that and it was impossible to put a ladder anywhere, so we ended up building a bridge across the section walls so we could stand on a ladder on the bridge
2022-12-30T01:01:32 < qyx> zyp nearly dead
2022-12-30T01:02:08 < zyp> haha, I think that ended up being one of the safest parts
2022-12-30T01:03:39 < zyp> we put together the bridge with some two by eights and some leftover floorboards so it was pretty solid, and only needed a short ladder on top of it
2022-12-30T01:03:55 < zyp> way more stable than the long ladder required to reach the 6m ceiling from floor level
2022-12-30T01:05:42 < ventYl> that pile of electronics could be a vintage ebay gold mine
2022-12-30T01:07:29 < zyp> was almost tempted to rent a boom lift, but the trailer mounted kind wouldn't have fit between the section walls, and the wheeled kind are so heavy it would have cost a fortune to get it transported for such a small task
2022-12-30T01:12:17 < fenugrec> you have 2x8 lumber in .no ? or is it nominally called 38x184
2022-12-30T01:12:39 < zyp> 48x198
2022-12-30T01:14:02 < qyx> we have that too, usually 50x200
2022-12-30T01:14:22 < qyx> but some manufacturers do 48x198 and call it 50x200
2022-12-30T01:14:46 < qyx> our house is made of 48x148 (2x6")
2022-12-30T01:15:23 < zyp> the floorboards were leftovers from when we built a bridge between the mezzanines: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3l5Tv.jpg
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2022-12-30T01:41:25 < kaki> you have liquids builder(s) require to work back in there?
2022-12-30T01:42:15 < zyp> P
2022-12-30T01:42:16 < zyp> ?
2022-12-30T01:44:56 < kaki> on 24pcs pallets
2022-12-30T01:45:19 < zyp> ah, the cans of ramlösa?
2022-12-30T01:45:33 < kaki> Ramlösa :o
2022-12-30T01:46:37 < kaki> bubbly water
2022-12-30T01:49:05 < zyp> ah, one of my friends snapped some pics of the bridge we built: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797468335969271818/1058166669425516674/20221229_141920.jpg
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2022-12-30T02:00:56 < kaki> looks safe
2022-12-30T02:03:00 < qyx> except the right part
2022-12-30T02:03:20 < qyx> is it hanging only on ~2 cm?
2022-12-30T02:05:50 < zyp> indeed, but screwed down in both ends so it can't move/slip off
2022-12-30T02:08:12 < zyp> if it was intended to be permanent, I would have put more support underneath, but for a temporary construction we disassembled again right after it was good enough
2022-12-30T02:09:36 < ventYl> it already looks like a lot of wasted work anyway
2022-12-30T02:10:01 < zyp> in what sense?
2022-12-30T02:11:06 < ventYl> that it took way too much time to be done compared to the amount of time it actually served its purpose
2022-12-30T02:13:33 < zyp> I don't imagine we could have spent less total time doing it in any other manner
2022-12-30T02:14:16 < zyp> probably didn't spend more than 10-15 minutes putting it together, and five taking it apart again
2022-12-30T02:14:34 < ventYl> ah ok, it looked like it took much longer to complete
2022-12-30T02:16:19 < zyp> I didn't count, maybe time went faster than I imagine, but we already had the materials, so it was just a matter of carrying them over, lifting the beams in place, screwing them down, lifting the boards in place and screwing them down too
2022-12-30T02:17:08 < ventYl> facing that situation, the sourcing of material would take me the longest portion of time, if you had it on site, then yeah, it was fast
2022-12-30T02:18:41 < zyp> well, even if we didn't, we're right across from a building materials shop :p
2022-12-30T02:19:07 < ventYl> lucky guys
2022-12-30T02:19:20 < ventYl> nearest one here is not less than 10 km away
2022-12-30T02:19:28 < zyp> when we bought the floorboards, they just drove a forklift over and put them right into our workshop
2022-12-30T02:21:34 < zyp> https://goo.gl/maps/u6Aj5tdfwyQkUDyb9
2022-12-30T02:21:51 < zyp> we're on the left side, material shop on the right side
2022-12-30T02:23:38 < zyp> typically not the cheapest shop though, when we bought some gypsum boards yesterday we went to a cheaper one 700m away
2022-12-30T02:24:35 < ventYl> well, that depends on price difference and the distance
2022-12-30T02:24:54 < ventYl> and also on how urgently you need it
2022-12-30T02:25:09 < zyp> indeed
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2022-12-30T13:00:23 < qyx> any idea why newlib is not compiled with debug info in the ARM official gcc toolchain?
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2022-12-30T15:18:20 < qyx> also, for LTO pros
2022-12-30T15:18:23 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Nql6X
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2022-12-30T15:26:34 < qyx> tried this but doesn't work https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+bug/1763050/comments/7
2022-12-30T15:33:58 < PaulFertser> qyx: sounds like you need to add -lnosys to the end of your linking command line?
2022-12-30T15:34:46 < PaulFertser> The command invocation is not visible in the paste, you need to enable verbose output or something.
2022-12-30T15:37:41 < kaki> sync: is this you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhYEOG9LOIk
2022-12-30T15:38:54 < kaki> video for average train enjoyers
2022-12-30T15:51:19 < benishor> ohai
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2022-12-30T16:01:37 < kaki> it's not a miniature train project - it's a waste dispencer system
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--- Day changed la joulu 31 2022
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2022-12-31T21:09:10 < bitmask> jesus, why are my gf's parents paying for gigabit internet
2022-12-31T21:09:28 < bitmask> i just did a speed test to test my vpn and got 700mbit down
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2022-12-31T21:18:33 < catphish_> nice
2022-12-31T21:21:34 < zyp> so their onlyfans uploads go faster
2022-12-31T21:26:19 < bitmask> eww
2022-12-31T21:27:23 < bitmask> ugh, why does my code produce a tiny window when run from windows, Im sure it has to do with my retina display but I thought my code took care of that....
2022-12-31T21:27:29 < zyp> don't be so judgemental
2022-12-31T21:27:37 < bitmask> haha
2022-12-31T21:28:27 < bitmask> fine, i'll eat my gf's stepdads ass while hes ramming his wife, people would pay for that right?
2022-12-31T21:28:57 < zyp> there's probably people into that
2022-12-31T21:34:05 < jpa-> you might be happy about the small window once you find their channel
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2022-12-31T22:38:12 < Laurence_b> ywnb imprisoned in Andrew Tate's rape dungeon
2022-12-31T22:38:21 < Laurence_b> born too soon
2022-12-31T22:39:00 < benishor> hah
2022-12-31T22:39:03 < benishor> .ro here
2022-12-31T22:39:16 < benishor> what's that tate famous for anyway?
2022-12-31T22:39:23 < Steffanx-> Where else? :P
2022-12-31T22:39:38 < benishor> just some obnoxious little tit shit?
2022-12-31T22:39:49 < Laurence_b> yeah I thought every house in Romania has a rape dungeon as standard
2022-12-31T22:39:50 < Steffanx-> Getting burned by a little girl
2022-12-31T22:40:09 < benishor> Laurence_b: why of course we do
2022-12-31T22:40:16 < benishor> I just went to check mine up
2022-12-31T22:41:00 < benishor> did some sound proofing work although not needed for new year's eve
2022-12-31T22:42:21 < Steffanx-> I wonder if jadew locked himself up in there by accident
2022-12-31T22:42:26 < Steffanx-> Hes quiet lately
2022-12-31T22:42:47 < benishor> most likely got locked into someone else's 
2022-12-31T22:43:34 < benishor> we romanians are very welcoming people
2022-12-31T22:45:06 < Steffanx-> Absolutely.
2022-12-31T22:48:03 < benishor> tasted the renowned hospitality of my people, Steffanx-?
2022-12-31T22:49:24 < Steffanx-> hah not really. Only during university witnessed how you guys liked to share things a few times. 
2022-12-31T22:49:42 < Steffanx-> Like one gets a coffee and then shared it with others when they asked for a sip
2022-12-31T22:50:21 < benishor> you mean sharing is far fetched?
2022-12-31T22:50:48 < benishor> we like to share, be it coffee, cigarettes, women
2022-12-31T22:50:58 < Steffanx-> Yes, thats what i nocited
2022-12-31T22:51:00 < Steffanx-> noticed.
2022-12-31T22:55:26 < Steffanx-> All the other were also romanian though :P
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2022-12-31T23:31:50 < chris_99> Hi, i'm just wondering vref+ with an stm32, would represent the max voltage that the ADC can read afaik? Is it possible to tie vref+ to 3.3V internally? (i'm playing with a board, that seems to tie vref+ to gnd via two caps)
2022-12-31T23:33:55 < rustyaxe> caps are for bypass filtering, they wont pass DC :o
2022-12-31T23:34:18 < rustyaxe> side effect is you probably cant measure AC well there (audio, etc)
2022-12-31T23:34:19 < chris_99> rustyaxe: that means it'd be floating right? 
2022-12-31T23:34:39 < rustyaxe> hmm maybe thats why i suffered some troubles with my microphone project :o
2022-12-31T23:36:54 < chris_99> i'm confused why they'd use caps without connecting to 3.3v too, only to gnd
2022-12-31T23:37:05 < rustyaxe> To shunt noise to ground
2022-12-31T23:37:27 < chris_99> doesn't this make the adc unusable though? 
2022-12-31T23:37:29 < rustyaxe> tho seems misguided as that wouldnt let you have an AC wavform input (such as voice) :(
2022-12-31T23:37:40 < rustyaxe> not for measuring a DC voltage at all
2022-12-31T23:37:47 < rustyaxe> which probably was what they intended
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2022-12-31T23:59:25 < chris_99> seems you can set vrefbuf, which did the trick :)
--- Log closed su tammi 01 00:00:03 2023