--- Log opened ke maalis 01 00:00:20 2023
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2023-03-01T00:42:08 < kaki> Laurence_b: what you doing in spain?
2023-03-01T00:42:24 < kaki> besides trying out new laws
2023-03-01T00:43:18 < Laurence_b> seeing if the Hotel reception will complain if I bring a horse back to my room
2023-03-01T00:43:36 < Laurence_b> but more seriously, working on high speed trains
2023-03-01T00:51:54 < kaki> what kind of stuff?
2023-03-01T00:59:12 < Laurence_b> traction inverters
2023-03-01T01:00:15 < kaki> you have them shipped there?
2023-03-01T01:00:45 < kaki> its on rolling stock already?
2023-03-01T01:01:33 < kaki> this is the moment where lurence actually drives his hypertrain on rails?
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2023-03-01T09:32:10 < jpa-> "3 brand-new STM32 series"  as if there weren't enough many already
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2023-03-01T09:54:13 < qyx>  they should finally EOL F1 and F2 at least
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2023-03-01T11:48:15 < karlp> yeah, just got that email too.
2023-03-01T11:48:31 < karlp> they're just making a mess of their product line now, I don't get it.
2023-03-01T11:49:47 < karlp> zyp: yeah, bluez is fucking weird with caching scan results and shit, I've had all sorts of weird behaviour there.
2023-03-01T11:50:06 < karlp> I'm sure it has good reasons, but sometimes it feels like it's just working against me.
2023-03-01T11:51:15 < karlp> bleak's client connect does some scan internally if it can't find shit.
2023-03-01T11:51:24 < karlp> but yeah, there's weird shit there.
2023-03-01T11:51:37 < karlp> apple and google both having "special" fast connect shit doesn't help things much either.
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2023-03-01T13:04:06 < zyp> heh
2023-03-01T13:04:14 < zyp> well, I got it to work
2023-03-01T13:06:33 < zyp> I'm reverse engineering some stuff based on decompiling the android app to talk to it
2023-03-01T13:07:35 < zyp> so far I've worked out the initial handshake that sets up a session encryption key
2023-03-01T13:08:54 < zyp> it's using a single BLE characteristic with write/notify as a command/async response transport
2023-03-01T13:10:19 < karlp> yeah, seems fairly common.
2023-03-01T13:10:55 < karlp> I don't have a huge experience, but I've seen taht sort of style before in what I've looked at.
2023-03-01T13:11:39 < karlp> session encryption is just "normal" btle stuff though isn't it? you didn't have to do anythin special there?
2023-03-01T13:12:32 < zyp> I don't know what normal btle stuff does
2023-03-01T13:13:08 < zyp> what this thing does is that it generates a random salt, CMAC signs it and rearranges the message to obfuscate it
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2023-03-01T13:13:52 < zyp> if the device is happy with it, it responds in the same manner
2023-03-01T13:14:44 < jpa-> https://github.com/Krasjet/pdf.tocgen   finally a sane way to add TOC to those 1000 page PDFs without one
2023-03-01T13:14:59 < zyp> and then that's used as IV for AES encryption for the rest of the session
2023-03-01T13:15:16 < zyp> if I've got it right
2023-03-01T13:15:31 < zyp> I've only tested the handshake so far
2023-03-01T13:17:18 < karlp> and you got a suitable key from decompiling the android app?
2023-03-01T13:17:23 < karlp> maybe that's what I need to do.
2023-03-01T13:17:38 < zyp> yes
2023-03-01T13:17:52 < karlp> I was trying to fake out my little label printer and have the android app just talk to my own bluetooth device, and work things out that way.
2023-03-01T13:18:24 < karlp> I cloned the services, but I'm missing something somewhere, the app doesn't make any connection to it, and doesn't report it either.
2023-03-01T13:18:33 < karlp> I put that aside again for the time being :)
2023-03-01T13:18:42 < zyp> notification data, maybe?
2023-03-01T13:18:51 < karlp> well, it has to connect first to enable notificaitons
2023-03-01T13:18:52 < zyp> advertisement data, I mean
2023-03-01T13:19:12 < karlp> yeah, Ic loned that  too, but it is probnably doign some validation on mac vs adv data or something
2023-03-01T13:19:22 < zyp> ah
2023-03-01T13:19:35 < karlp> that's what some xioami devices do, iirc.
2023-03-01T13:21:57 < zyp> in other news, I apparently never had chickenpox as a kid
2023-03-01T13:22:01 < zyp> would not recommend :)
2023-03-01T13:22:59 < zyp> kid had it a couple of weeks ago, and now I'm a few days into it
2023-03-01T13:38:29 < karlp> oh yeah, it's so bad for adults it gets a new name in english :)
2023-03-01T13:38:54 < karlp> eldest got it naturally, youngest got the "new" vaccination for it.
2023-03-01T13:40:59 < zyp> norway doesn't vaccinate against it
2023-03-01T13:41:09 < zyp> by default
2023-03-01T13:41:48 < zyp> I probably could have gotten vaccinated, had I known I hadn't had it
2023-03-01T13:43:26 < karlp> yeah, it's a newer one here, you can ask for it for kids, but it's not one of the required scheduled ones.
2023-03-01T13:43:47 < zyp> I think my wife got vaccinated as a kid
2023-03-01T14:04:56 < qyx> zyp: is it that bad?
2023-03-01T14:12:44 < zyp> nah, I'll survive
2023-03-01T14:13:19 < zyp> the worst part is that it's itchy as fuck
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2023-03-01T16:12:55 < kaki> why are vaccinations marked in some card you immediatelly lose?
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2023-03-01T16:44:49 < zyp> are they?
2023-03-01T16:45:06 < jpa-> in 1990s finland they were
2023-03-01T16:45:38 < zyp> in norway they're registered in a national registry, I can log in and check the date and type of every single vaccine I ever got
2023-03-01T16:54:12 < kaki> jpa-: in 2000s too
2023-03-01T16:54:56 < zyp> here's my vaccination card: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HOf51.png
2023-03-01T17:02:39 < jpa-> yeah, in .fi we don't have any such info about old vaccinations
2023-03-01T17:02:49 < jpa-> only after 2010 or so
2023-03-01T17:05:42 < kaki> ofc relevant vaccination history can be somewhat deducted
2023-03-01T17:09:09 < kaki> zyp I added std::function to my struct and now its not valid type for template non-type parameter
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2023-03-01T17:09:37 < qyx> zyp: no tetanus since 99?
2023-03-01T17:10:06 < kaki> zyp is undervaccinated
2023-03-01T17:12:55 < Steffanx-> Here you only get it when you go to the hospital when you're wounded. 
2023-03-01T17:13:03 < Steffanx-> Or something 
2023-03-01T17:15:50 < karlp> does .no still do tb vax?
2023-03-01T17:15:56 < karlp> or were you one of the last?
2023-03-01T17:26:03 < kaki> zyp: if I have std::function as a struct member am I doing something wrong?
2023-03-01T17:27:25 < zyp> karlp, they did when I was a kid, but not now, by default
2023-03-01T17:28:14 < zyp> kid got it though
2023-03-01T17:31:27 < zyp> apparently it's usually only offered when kid has parents from countries where it's still a thing
2023-03-01T17:31:30 < karlp> they stopped in .au aaaaages ago, .is too.
2023-03-01T17:31:47 < karlp> I mean, you're closer to .ru than we are, but still, wouldn't have thought you'd have it
2023-03-01T17:31:58 < zyp> nurse went and looked up and found that japan were not in the list
2023-03-01T17:32:09 < karlp> not in the list of ... ?
2023-03-01T17:32:17 < zyp> contries where tb is still a thing
2023-03-01T17:32:20 < karlp> .no considers .jp a TB risc?
2023-03-01T17:32:23 < zyp> nope
2023-03-01T17:32:32 < karlp> so your kid got it for?
2023-03-01T17:32:56 < zyp> «but if you want it anyway, you can have it» «yeah, sure, why not»
2023-03-01T17:33:13 < karlp> actually I know nothing about the kids tb shot, just recognise the shoulder marks from the older one.
2023-03-01T17:33:44 < zyp> you mean the BCG, right?
2023-03-01T17:36:48 < karlp> I guess, looks like it's actually the same thing still.
2023-03-01T17:36:54 < zyp> yep
2023-03-01T17:37:02  * karlp shrugs just not used to it being given much in "the west"
2023-03-01T17:38:02 < zyp> hmm, according to wikipedia it was mandatory until 1995 and voluntary until 2009
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2023-03-01T18:18:29 < kaki> after a one year I have finally passed a callback to my class instance
2023-03-01T18:19:44 < kaki> added std::function as a private variable
2023-03-01T18:20:48 < kaki> then replaced it with replace operation in a initialization function with callback given as a parameter
2023-03-01T18:21:36 < kaki> all this because I would have preffered to have a callback as a constant
2023-03-01T18:25:13 < kaki> couple of bytes as a rom instead of ram
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2023-03-01T18:29:32 < kaki> zyp: was it possible to set constants for class instance using constructor?
2023-03-01T18:34:55 < kaki> let's try that
2023-03-01T18:52:28 < jadew> https://snapcraft.io/woke
2023-03-01T18:52:41 < jadew> https://dashboard.snapcraft.io/site_media/appmedia/2021/12/woke_02.png
2023-03-01T18:53:05 < aandrew> super important, installing
2023-03-01T18:53:34 < catphish> lmao
2023-03-01T18:55:44 < jadew> everyone should use this, you don't want your firmware's source code to be problematic
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2023-03-01T18:56:50 < karlp> you'd love this then: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/master/src/tools/tidy/src/style.rs#L65-L69
2023-03-01T18:57:22 < jadew> lol, wth is that?
2023-03-01T18:57:33 < jadew> I wonder what it spells in hex
2023-03-01T18:57:36 < karlp> try pasting the array into python [hex(a)for a in x]
2023-03-01T18:57:49 < karlp> it should be pretty easy to guess at least one or two of them :)
2023-03-01T18:59:39 < karlp> it's surprisingly ilmited really, it seems to have _some_ combinations of babe, but not even close to a comprehensive set of them
2023-03-01T19:00:08 < jadew> was hoping for something spicier
2023-03-01T19:00:18 < karlp> like I have one that I've used in the past wouldn't have gotten caught, 0xbabeface
2023-03-01T19:00:29 < karlp> how spicy can you get in hex?
2023-03-01T19:00:39 < jadew> don't know, but let's explore
2023-03-01T19:01:30 < jadew> 0xA55BEAD5
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2023-03-01T19:01:38 < jadew> I just came up with that one
2023-03-01T19:01:49 < karlp> you should submit a PR with new constants to mark as problematic :)
2023-03-01T19:01:58 < catphish> b00b135, abadbabe, abbababe, b0bababe, b16b00b5, beefbabe, cafebabe, cafed00d, deadbabe, deadd00d, f00dbabe, feedbabe
2023-03-01T19:02:25 < qyx> deadcafe
2023-03-01T19:02:30 < catphish> personally i much prefer 0xA55BEAD5
2023-03-01T19:02:43 < jadew> see, not problematic at all
2023-03-01T19:02:50 < karlp> has 0xa and 0x5, so good for clock testing.
2023-03-01T19:03:12 < jadew> lol
2023-03-01T19:09:24 < jadew> Fe1a710
2023-03-01T19:12:47 < jadew> a google search for 0xA55BEAD5 yields exactly one result
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2023-03-01T19:16:40 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/0d55bd11009686dba662b0f4e697183691e7b308
2023-03-01T19:17:16 < BrainDamage> it was their own tests
2023-03-01T19:37:32 < qyx> lol problematic consts
2023-03-01T19:49:36 < jadew> woke means joyless
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2023-03-01T20:05:56 < jadew> chatgpt is woke
2023-03-01T20:07:02 < jadew> told it to write an essay about how being woke leads to resentment and makes everyone hate you and it gave me the "woke" is cool cookie cutter
2023-03-01T20:09:01 < BrainDamage> you know, I think a decent part of what you see about woke stuff is just reactionary stuff to piss people off
2023-03-01T20:10:24 < jadew> except it seems all woke trash is pissing people off
2023-03-01T20:10:33 < jadew> remember the master/slave thing?
2023-03-01T20:11:12 < jadew> wokes concern themselves only with non-problems, creating problems out of them
2023-03-01T20:12:26 < BrainDamage> that's agreeing with me, not contradicting
2023-03-01T20:12:51 < jadew> I thought you're saying that they're also doing good, but we don't see that
2023-03-01T20:13:09 < jadew> my impression is that important things don't fall on their radar, only the petty shit
2023-03-01T20:16:40 < BrainDamage> I am, but I think all you see on the web is reactionary trash
2023-03-01T20:17:15 < jadew> it's possible
2023-03-01T20:17:37 < jadew> I guess once in a while they need to do something that benefits me
2023-03-01T20:19:22 < jadew> afk, ttyl
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2023-03-01T20:54:39 < aandrew> lol 0xa55bead5 is a new one for me
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2023-03-01T21:06:46 < kaki> 2 days and I have coding musics set
2023-03-01T21:07:32 < kaki> Miami Nights 1984 seems to work
2023-03-01T21:18:33 < Ecco> Hi :)
2023-03-01T21:18:49 < Ecco> jpa-: how would you compare nanopb to upb?
2023-03-01T21:20:18 < jpa-> one is a protobuf library for C, other one is a protobuf library mainly for ruby/php/python
2023-03-01T21:20:55 < Ecco> I'm not sure I understand the difference. upb also offers a C API, right?
2023-03-01T21:21:20 < Ecco> (yes, it's not stable, but as long as I stick to a given version, I don't really care, right?)
2023-03-01T21:21:28 < jpa-> well, if you don't care
2023-03-01T21:21:42 < zyp> nano < micro, so obviously nanopb is best
2023-03-01T21:21:47 < jpa-> then the main difference is that nanopb doesn't need dynamic allocation
2023-03-01T21:22:13 < Ecco> oh, ok, that's pretty cool
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2023-03-01T21:23:07 < Ecco> Actually I'm writing some C++ code that will run in a browser as a wasm module. I'm looking for a way to pass data between C++ world and JS world.
2023-03-01T21:23:58 < Ecco> I thought protobuf might be a good way. (Any opinion on that?) And since my C++ code doesn't do any dynamic allocation, I also thought I'd look for a protobuf library that doesn't either, so I don't need to bother with a malloc implementation at all
2023-03-01T21:24:32 < jpa-> sounds weird, but yeah, may work
2023-03-01T21:25:16 < zyp> protonium can also work without dynamic allocation
2023-03-01T21:25:28 < zyp> or, it's supposed to, not sure it's usable without yet :p
2023-03-01T21:25:55 < Ecco> zyp: I can't seem to find any reference online
2023-03-01T21:26:06 < Ecco> jpa-: Why does it sound weird?
2023-03-01T21:26:11 < jpa-> zyp: when you bother to write a readme for protonium, i'll link it as "related project" :)
2023-03-01T21:26:20 < zyp> :D
2023-03-01T21:26:35 < zyp> https://github.com/zyp/protonium
2023-03-01T21:26:39 < Ecco> Let me rephrase: what would a non-weird alternative be?
2023-03-01T21:26:44 < zyp> json?
2023-03-01T21:27:05 < jpa-> json would be my first choice also, or C++ structs
2023-03-01T21:27:10 < jpa-> depending on data and performance needs
2023-03-01T21:27:26 < zyp> I've heard good stuff about https://github.com/nlohmann/json, but I'm not sure how it'd run on WASM
2023-03-01T21:28:22 < Ecco> Yeah I guess I could indeed use JSON, but I'm concerned about the C++-without-dynamic-allocation side. In other words, I'm not sure there's a good parser/generator that works without malloc.
2023-03-01T21:28:33 < Ecco> What did you mean by "C++ structs"?
2023-03-01T21:29:17 < jpa-> struct { uint32_t foo; uint32_t bar; }   send bytes to javascript, then parse there - after all you control both sides so compatibility issues are not that big
2023-03-01T21:29:22 < Ecco> Like… just passing buffers containing plain C structs?
2023-03-01T21:30:00 < Ecco> Yeah, ok. INdeed, it works, and it probably is the most efficient (for some definition of efficiency at least). But then I'm concerned I'd be re-inventing the wheel
2023-03-01T21:30:11 < zyp> jpa-, by the way, how stupid does protobuf rpc over i2c sound?
2023-03-01T21:31:17 < jpa-> somewhat stupid
2023-03-01T21:31:24 < sauce> I've been considering cap'n proto for my next project(s), not sure if there is an embedded-oriented implementation at this time though
2023-03-01T21:31:25 < zyp> I figure a call would be a write consisting of one or two bytes selecting the rpc «register» in a traditional i2c sense, two bytes for payload length and then a protobuf payload
2023-03-01T21:31:37 < jpa-> especially if you want someone else to be able to use it as a i2c device
2023-03-01T21:31:44 < zyp> and then the following read would return two byte response payload length and the full response payload
2023-03-01T21:32:06 < zyp> why? it's still compatible with common i2c patterns :)
2023-03-01T21:32:35 < jpa-> protobuf is a bit unnecessarily complex format for many purposes :)
2023-03-01T21:33:52 < zyp> I'm thinking about using protobuf to encode metadata in i2c eeproms too
2023-03-01T21:34:03 < jpa-> that makes sense
2023-03-01T21:34:24 < zyp> in particular for the testrack project
2023-03-01T21:34:38 < zyp> I'm putting a metadata eeprom on every target mode so I can store shit about the target
2023-03-01T21:34:46 < jpa-> Ecco: something like  https://www.npmjs.com/package/c-struct  makes it relatively simple, and the webasm side (which is harder to debug & develop) stays very simple
2023-03-01T21:34:58 < zyp> so that I don't manually need to keep track of what goes where and how it's configured
2023-03-01T21:35:26 < zyp> target module*
2023-03-01T21:35:36 < Ecco> hmm, interesting
2023-03-01T21:36:02 < Ecco> But then I guess the only downside is that there is some amount of code duplication between C and JS, right?
2023-03-01T21:36:10 < Ecco> as in, you need to sync your JS code to the C code
2023-03-01T21:36:21 < jpa-> you always need
2023-03-01T21:36:31 < zyp> easy if they live in the same repo
2023-03-01T21:36:45 < Ecco> Yes indeed, it's pretty easy
2023-03-01T21:36:45 < jpa-> even if .proto file autogenerates some interface, your code still needs to access the messages in compatible ways, put right stuff in right fields etc.
2023-03-01T21:37:01 < Ecco> but I thought the ".proto" files could be shared and "fix" this problem
2023-03-01T21:37:35 < jpa-> .proto can fix things if the C++ dude cannot communicate directly with the javascript dude
2023-03-01T21:37:58 < Ecco> Yeah, I guess you do make a good point: even if the proto file fixes the "structure syncing" part, there's some other "logic" to fix
2023-03-01T21:38:03 < jpa-> e.g. if they work on independent projects or in different companies
2023-03-01T21:38:39 < Ecco> Yeah, it's all about having a more explicit interface
2023-03-01T21:39:08 < Ecco> but even if JS dude == C++ dude, wouldn't it be "cleaner" to make that interface explicit in a .proto file?
2023-03-01T21:39:41 < jpa-> you can make it explicit in .h file
2023-03-01T21:41:42 < jpa-> flatbuffers is basically structs with their own generator thingy, so that's worth considering also
2023-03-01T21:42:27 < Ecco> Oh wow
2023-03-01T21:42:28 < Ecco> https://google.github.io/flatbuffers/index.html#flatbuffers_overview
2023-03-01T21:42:36 < Ecco> Yeah, so far it seems like it's a pretty good fit indeed
2023-03-01T21:43:25 < zyp> flatbuffers are just protobuffers reinvented with a different binary encoding :)
2023-03-01T21:45:44 < jpa-> for simple objects flatbuffers is like C structs with tiny header, but for more complex ones if becomes a bit more involved
2023-03-01T22:01:25 < qyx> cbor is my favourite now
2023-03-01T22:15:09 < Steffanx-> but all that overhead qyx  
2023-03-01T22:26:46 < Ecco> Hmm, I'm not quite sure flatbuffers doesn't require dynamic memory and/or STL
2023-03-01T22:38:57 < Steffanx-> Musics for kaki (and karlp since he's all into the eurovision something something) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOf-oKDlO6A
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--- Day changed to maalis 02 2023
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2023-03-02T01:40:58 < jadew> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/vw-wouldnt-help-locate-car-with-abducted-child-because-gps-subscription-expired/
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2023-03-02T07:38:22 < englishman> haha
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2023-03-02T08:24:17 < jpa-> somehow cars and children being stolen sounds so strange.. but i guess in "Libertyville" such things happen
2023-03-02T08:35:04 < qyx> he probably didn't know there is a child inside
2023-03-02T08:36:03 < jpa-> yeah, seems so, still pretty GTA style robbery
2023-03-02T08:36:30 < rustyaxe> yea you're supposed to toss those out before you leave
2023-03-02T08:36:33 < rustyaxe> "Here, you left this!"
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2023-03-02T10:23:20 < jadew> can you imagine the kind of autistic drones they're hiring to answer the phone?
2023-03-02T10:24:54 < jadew> the frustration they must have caused to actual customers...
2023-03-02T10:26:59 < Steffanx-> If it only it were autistic drones and not people afraid loosing their jobs because company policy.
2023-03-02T10:43:43 < mawk> arduino put a stm32 in one of their boards 
2023-03-02T10:43:50 < mawk> what has this world come to
2023-03-02T10:44:24 < mawk> a H7 in the arduino GIGA
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2023-03-02T11:00:29 < karlp> there's a h7 in portenta too isn't there?
2023-03-02T11:00:46 < karlp> they've got another one too iirc, arduino is all about those b2b back patting connections
2023-03-02T11:02:31 < mawk> ah I didn't know
2023-03-02T11:03:33 < mawk> GIGA is MEGA form-factor so it's a bit more make:r than the overpriced portenta board
2023-03-02T11:06:41 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2023-03-02T11:07:34 < karlp> this company's first protos when I joined was an arduino mega, an ethernet shield, and then a double stack of custom pcbs on top of that
2023-03-02T11:08:02 < karlp> why a mega?  because it had _two_ uarts!
2023-03-02T11:15:12 < qyx> and now you are the only one doing all the job?
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2023-03-02T11:19:56 < qyx> what the hell is zerynth.com
2023-03-02T11:19:59 < qyx> another zephyr?
2023-03-02T11:20:48 < Steffanx-> Doesnt look like it
2023-03-02T11:21:11 < Steffanx-> Looks like a cloud service.
2023-03-02T11:21:14 < Steffanx-> and somme hardware
2023-03-02T11:21:18 < qyx> it is a sdk
2023-03-02T11:21:20 < qyx> with python
2023-03-02T11:21:45 < qyx> oh and a cloud and a hw
2023-03-02T11:22:19 < qyx> and a zerynthed grafana https://docs.zerynth.com/v3.0.9/tutorials/zCloud/img/connect-07.png
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2023-03-02T11:50:54 < karlp> Steffanx-: is this your final entry? it's  not horrible, at least.
2023-03-02T11:51:03 < Steffanx-> i think its horrible.
2023-03-02T11:51:06 < karlp> our final is this weekend, wife and daughter and friends are going to the show
2023-03-02T11:51:09 < Steffanx-> Yes, final entry.
2023-03-02T11:52:02 < Steffanx-> Not that it's relevant, but i havent even the slightest clue who those 2 persons are.
2023-03-02T11:52:12 < karlp> doesn't seem relevant :)
2023-03-02T11:52:27 < karlp> we have a particularly weak year.
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2023-03-02T13:51:27 < Steffanx-> You actually have a contest to see who goes to Eurovision karlp?
2023-03-02T13:55:03 < jpa-> fi has too
2023-03-02T13:56:56 < karlp> Steffanx-: you don't?
2023-03-02T13:57:59 < karlp> oh, you used to, but since 2013 your national broadcaster has just chosen them
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2023-03-02T14:09:40 < jpa-> because the 2012 winner was a total joke?
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2023-03-02T14:42:19 < BrainDamage> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/843579512464736269/1080825458687475723/image.png
2023-03-02T14:44:58 < PaulFertser> btw, all you folks who use cars/motorbikes, beware the fuses that are made by simple sheet metal cutting (like the one on the left), it's known that some items can withstand currents more than twice their official ratings. Of course for a shady supplier it's more profitable to err on the higher side, unfortunately. Learnt it the hard way, had to change 5+ wires in my motor bike.
2023-03-02T14:58:11 < PaulFertser> Sensible fuse: https://www.carid.com/bosch/standard-fuse-mpn-1-904-529-906.html . Tests of bad fuses: https://www.yaplakal.com/forum11/topic263809.html
2023-03-02T15:00:14 < Steffanx-> I never replaced a fuse in my car. 
2023-03-02T15:01:29 < karlp> I've not done it on any recent car.  I used to do it on a couple of older cars.
2023-03-02T15:02:21 < PaulFertser> Well, I bought my motor bike with that fake fuse, and was using it for 5 years and 30k kilometers, and only after that my mistake after some minor re-assembly (I've forgotten to connect the horn) exposed the problem.
2023-03-02T15:07:47 < ventYl> in one of my cars, there are even old "ceramic body" fuses
2023-03-02T15:08:27 < ventYl> that's even worse combo as they have brutally wide sheet metal as a "fuse" on plastic instead of ceramic, so if anything is wrong, plastic will melt before metal contact breaks
2023-03-02T15:08:46 < ventYl> and I am not even sure if I ever wanted contact to break if fuse body is made of plastic
2023-03-02T15:16:05 < qyx> PaulFertser: ja plakal? :D
2023-03-02T15:21:19 < PaulFertser> qyx: idk, some popular russian forum, I don't use it. Yes, it means "I cried", presumably from laughing.
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2023-03-02T15:57:25 < fenugrec> nice. Reminds me of the federal pioneer residential breaker scandal (north american thing, us+can), they faked some UL tests or something, millions of breakers sold, some of them trip at over twice the specified I/t conditions etc
2023-03-02T15:59:59 < fenugrec> "... until the late 80's. Responsible for ~ 2800 house fires in the US annually, etc etc.". Which reminds me, my house is '86, and has FP breakers.... fuuuuuuu
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2023-03-02T16:09:55 < ventYl> '80s federal pioneer may still be better than good part of what you can buy these days
2023-03-02T16:11:51 < karlp> [citation needed]
2023-03-02T16:12:10 < karlp> that's a "damn kids get off my lawn" sort of line ventYl 
2023-03-02T16:17:27 < ventYl> the best I can provide is anecdotal evidence
2023-03-02T16:18:00 < ventYl> such as those breakers pointed out by PaulFertser, then one 10 storey building full of single use RJ45 sockets, and so on
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2023-03-02T16:32:13 < karlp> englishman: here, this one worked first go: https://www.ruv.is/frettir/innlent/2023-03-01-langbylgjumastrid-a-eidum-fellt
2023-03-02T16:33:37 < karlp> https://twitter.com/Thorunnolafsd/status/1630946109676826624 possibly better, but the comments there are unrelated politics.
2023-03-02T16:35:31 < karlp> sorry I couldn't hook you up with the live feed of it yesterday :)
2023-03-02T16:48:22 < bitmask> w
2023-03-02T16:48:23 < bitmask> t
2023-03-02T16:48:23 < bitmask> f
2023-03-02T16:48:39 < bitmask> my AWS charges have been 50 cents a month for over a year.. yesterday it was $30
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2023-03-02T16:48:55 < bitmask> bastards
2023-03-02T16:53:17 < kaki> why
2023-03-02T17:03:02 < kaki> did you buy computing 1800x the normal amount?
2023-03-02T17:03:22 < kaki> or are they just robbing you?
2023-03-02T17:04:21 < bitmask> i had 6 million graphQL requests and 25 million db reads, the only thing I can think of is I had a bug in my code and did something I wasn't supposed to which created an infinite loop of requests but I realized what happened pretty quickly and stopped it
2023-03-02T17:06:31 < kaki> imagine the implications
2023-03-02T17:07:05 < kaki> does such AWS system have alerts or anything?
2023-03-02T17:07:13 < bitmask> and it costs > $7 a month to implement rate limited
2023-03-02T17:07:15 < bitmask> limiting*
2023-03-02T17:07:27 < bitmask> bs
2023-03-02T17:07:46 < kaki> well you just paid 30
2023-03-02T17:08:11 < bitmask> well sure but hopefully that doesnt happen again, maybe i should enable it for a month while im working on the site
2023-03-02T17:08:33 < kaki> you should
2023-03-02T17:08:38 < bitmask> yep yep
2023-03-02T17:09:03 < bitmask> i asked for a refund :) I know they wont but it was worth a shot
2023-03-02T17:09:14 < kaki> if one quick oopsie costs 30
2023-03-02T17:09:45 < bitmask> its insane that they allow that shit
2023-03-02T17:09:51 < bitmask> i mean i guess why would they stop it
2023-03-02T17:10:00 < bitmask> but i mean... assholes
2023-03-02T17:13:41 < Ecco> Would you guys have a recommandation for a bench PSU?
2023-03-02T17:14:43 < kaki> bitmask: i mean they have no idea what you doing
2023-03-02T17:14:50 < kaki> and dont care
2023-03-02T17:15:10 < bitmask> but limiting should be automatic and free...
2023-03-02T17:15:24 < kaki> hmm yes maybe
2023-03-02T17:15:40 < kaki> it would be nice
2023-03-02T17:15:41 < qyx> if I was aws, I would not limit requests
2023-03-02T17:15:56 < qyx> exactly because of this
2023-03-02T17:16:07 < kaki> can you implement it yourself?
2023-03-02T17:16:08 < bitmask> yea i understand it, but again... assholes
2023-03-02T17:16:50 < bitmask> i dont think so
2023-03-02T17:17:00 < bitmask> oh well
2023-03-02T17:17:01 < bitmask> maybe
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2023-03-02T17:19:06 < ventYl> automatic request limiting may be unwanted stuff. imagine someone who has AWS instance and some magic happens and suddently they have 100x the traffic of previous minute, all of which is legit
2023-03-02T17:19:11 < karlp> the whole fucking point is elastic scaling :)
2023-03-02T17:19:15 < bitmask> how long do jobs usually collect resumes for before starting to contact people
2023-03-02T17:19:34 < ventYl> bitmask: if automotive, then months :>
2023-03-02T17:19:41 < karlp> $30 is a lesson learned. it's not $3000
2023-03-02T17:20:02 < ventYl> last week I did interview with someone who submitted CV back in november 2022
2023-03-02T17:20:09 < bitmask> ventYl it should limit by ip
2023-03-02T17:20:28 < ventYl> but I've seen tech interview requests done in jan 2023 requested back in september 2022
2023-03-02T17:20:30 < karlp> bitmask: you cannnot posssssinly just decide that a single rule like that applies to everyone
2023-03-02T17:21:06 < karlp> this is absolutely something you need to be in charge of your self, knowing your own app structure and deciding your own billing limits.
2023-03-02T17:21:10 < qyx> wtf is with people today, everybody is grumpy
2023-03-02T17:21:46 < karlp> it's march, so people are starting to feel like it should be spring/summer, but it's not. 
2023-03-02T17:24:19 < bitmask> alright so I shouldn't be freaking out because this place read my resume less than a week ago and hasn't responded? :P
2023-03-02T17:24:52 < ventYl> well it depends
2023-03-02T17:25:02 < BrainDamage> no, no answer is quite the norm
2023-03-02T17:25:17 < BrainDamage> it's shit, but it is what it is
2023-03-02T17:25:25 < ventYl> some are like piranhas, they will respond the same or next day. others chill tad bit more
2023-03-02T17:26:02 < bitmask> its an indie developer so I could see them going either way
2023-03-02T17:26:38 < bitmask> oh well, just gotta chill out myself then
2023-03-02T17:27:25 < bitmask> the ad is still up so thats a good sign at least
2023-03-02T17:27:30 < karlp> heh this is neat: https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/03/02/ghlbd-android-calculator-mini-review-an-allwinner-a50-based-android-9-0-calculator/
2023-03-02T17:28:24 < kaki> that calculator might be able to run doom
2023-03-02T17:28:30 < ventYl> definitely
2023-03-02T17:28:43 < ventYl> you can run doom on nrf52
2023-03-02T17:28:53 < kaki> and is cheaper than ti86+
2023-03-02T17:29:33 < kaki> I wonder if legacy calculators are still a thing in schools and stuff
2023-03-02T17:31:34 < ventYl> scientific probably still are
2023-03-02T17:31:55 < ventYl> there are some niche functions, e.g. for complex numbers which are usually missing in cellphone apps
2023-03-02T17:34:09 < kaki> can I initialize an array to certain size in c++ class constructor?
2023-03-02T17:34:20 < kaki> maybe this is stuff for templates?
2023-03-02T17:35:30 < BrainDamage> you absolutely can initialize to a size
2023-03-02T17:35:43 < kaki> I have a class for timer that should have an array of class instances that use captures
2023-03-02T17:36:17 < BrainDamage> templates would fit better when eg, the type is not fixed ( altough, auto covers that case )
2023-03-02T17:36:22 < kaki> so it should ie. in overflow service go through them
2023-03-02T17:37:16 < kaki> combined overflow service
2023-03-02T17:40:00 < kaki> BrainDamage: what if I want it runtime?
2023-03-02T17:40:04 < kaki> sorry
2023-03-02T17:40:05 < kaki> compiletime
2023-03-02T17:41:50 < kaki> maybe only the size in compiletime
2023-03-02T17:42:15 < kaki> maybe I just template it
2023-03-02T17:42:32 < kaki> I just template everything
2023-03-02T17:44:18 < BrainDamage> careful about one thing, templates make for incredibly arcane error messages
2023-03-02T17:45:35 < kaki> luckilly I have 5 layers of template
2023-03-02T17:46:21 < kaki> error messages are pages long
2023-03-02T17:48:10 < qyx> re neat things karlp I was eyeballing at Dirigera in Ikea the other day
2023-03-02T17:48:23 < qyx> was about to buy it despite not having any spare time atm
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2023-03-02T18:24:15 < englishman> very nice karlp thank you
2023-03-02T18:24:30 < englishman> fenugrec: also FP breakers here, can’t buy them anymore, and they trip when they overheat
2023-03-02T18:29:32 < karlp> englishman: there's a longer segment here https://www.ruv.is/sjonvarp/spila/frettir-kl-19-00/30762/a0gums/eidamastrid-fell-med-miklum-latum if you want to see the dude just cut the wire with an oxy torch
2023-03-02T18:29:57 < fenugrec> englishman, better that than not tripping at all... come to think of it, I've never trip a breaker in 10 years here. I'd be curious to pull out a few and run tests
2023-03-02T18:31:28 < qyx> same happened at parent's house
2023-03-02T18:31:55 < qyx> I replaced all 30y old breakers with new Eatons and one circuit started tripping periodically
2023-03-02T18:33:55 < fenugrec> due to an actual overload ?
2023-03-02T18:34:28 < fenugrec> trip characteristics is never a perfect step function ofc
2023-03-02T18:34:47 < karlp> heh, no shit :)
2023-03-02T18:35:04 < karlp> much to the surprise of like 99% of people when the first discover that
2023-03-02T18:35:05 < qyx> fenugrec: yeah
2023-03-02T18:37:46 < qyx> but yes, I may happily draw 2 kW from a 6A B breaker today all day long and in a week or so it trips after 2 minutes
2023-03-02T18:37:57 < qyx> despite the temperature being nearly constant
2023-03-02T18:39:13 < fenugrec> 'no shit', indeed, but the area around 1.0 to 1.5x rating is surprisingly slow, and likely very dependant on ambient temp. Heh, last year I was talking to a guy who considered certain breakers to be 'superior' to others because he could connect > 2.5kW worth of load on a 1.8kW circuit P )
2023-03-02T18:39:38 < karlp> yeah, indeed, that 1-1.5 sort of area is the messy region.
2023-03-02T18:40:37 < karlp> spent half the day rewriting some of my code to use silabs demo style so I can capture some crashes in their library.
2023-03-02T18:40:43 < karlp> doesn't crash
2023-03-02T18:40:55 < karlp> run my own code again, unchanged from yesterday, doesn't crash either :|
2023-03-02T18:41:07 < karlp> yesterday it would crash reliably wihtin 30 seconds alllll day long
2023-03-02T18:41:51 < fenugrec> "crashing reliably", always liked using that description
2023-03-02T18:42:29 < qyx> reminds me my lora rn2483 modules, they stop responding almost like a cryptographic random oracle
2023-03-02T18:42:35 < qyx> until yesterday
2023-03-02T18:42:45 < karlp> crashing reliably is great, means I can figure out where it is.
2023-03-02T18:42:45 < qyx> since the they generate all 0's
2023-03-02T18:42:50 < karlp> but yeah, fun term I guess :)
2023-03-02T18:51:25 < qyx> it is surprisingly hard to find bulkhead BNC connectors for RG174/316
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2023-03-02T19:18:27 < srk> qyx: we wanted to use these before but they became unobtanium at one point, you can presumably update firmware in them
2023-03-02T19:19:59 < srk> I've implemented a driver for rfm95 instead and lorawan 1.0 stack before the project died
2023-03-02T19:19:59 < qyx> and what you are using now?
2023-03-02T19:20:03 < srk> ^^
2023-03-02T19:21:16 < srk> devboard is stm32l4 with rn2483 and it has two rfm95ws attached that I've used for development, rn2483 unused
2023-03-02T19:21:37 < srk> it's like 2-3 years old, before STMs were unobtanium
2023-03-02T19:22:17 < srk> rn2483 is like some PIC that implements lorawan iirc and exposes uart for convenience
2023-03-02T19:22:35 < qyx> yes but the uart protocol is not that convenient
2023-03-02T19:22:45 < srk> yep
2023-03-02T19:22:59 < srk> and they are expensive
2023-03-02T19:23:03 < qyx> let's see what do I have there
2023-03-02T19:23:42 < qyx> RFM98W
2023-03-02T19:24:22 < qyx> how huge is the lowaran stack?
2023-03-02T19:24:30 < karlp> dirigera is stm32mp1 qyx, you should buy it.
2023-03-02T19:24:38 < qyx> exactyl
2023-03-02T19:24:41 < karlp> 2 silabs bt+zigbee radios
2023-03-02T19:25:37 < srk> there's one st mcu with integrated sx127x
2023-03-02T19:25:45 < srk> qyx: not that huge
2023-03-02T19:25:50 < karlp> stm32wl?
2023-03-02T19:26:08 < qyx> yeah but I have to avoid doing the RF part
2023-03-02T19:27:27 < srk> karlp: yep
2023-03-02T19:28:00 < srk> qyx: IBM lmic implementation looks scary tho
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2023-03-02T19:33:05 < qyx> wut was it written by minions seeing c89 for the first time ever, just after they ended a cobol career?
2023-03-02T19:37:06 < qyx> another global only library
2023-03-02T19:38:01 < fenugrec> but structs are complicated
2023-03-02T19:38:54 < fenugrec> does it use single-letter variable names too
2023-03-02T19:39:33 < srk> :D
2023-03-02T19:40:09 < qyx> no, but they reinvented u1_t, u2_t, etc.
2023-03-02T19:40:27 < qyx> is there any relevant compiler today not knowing about stdint?
2023-03-02T19:40:33 < qyx> but, ibm
2023-03-02T19:41:14 < fenugrec> even PIC compilers know about stdint. Dunno about those fancy legacy ibm mainframes though
2023-03-02T19:48:13 < srk> qyx: what's the project btw?
2023-03-02T19:48:41  * srk is still running TTN gw since IoT hype times
2023-03-02T19:51:10 < qyx> srk: inclinometers for structural health monitoring
2023-03-02T19:51:18 < qyx> + vibration analysis
2023-03-02T19:51:52 < qyx> I run TTN gw for a week or so, then helium for almost 2 years
2023-03-02T19:52:19 < qyx> now nothing, I consider lorawan as a global network to be a dead end
2023-03-02T19:53:09 < qyx> but hey, I just found out where to get cheap LoRa antennas
2023-03-02T19:53:24 < qyx> helium people are selling them in quantities
2023-03-02T19:53:31 < srk> heh, was reading about helium not being very profitable recently and I don't like their locked devices. my gw is pi3 and ic880a
2023-03-02T19:53:55 < qyx> I had a helium hotspot only because good location & I was given one
2023-03-02T19:53:59 < srk> probably right about global lorawan net, you can easily run local alongside global as well tho
2023-03-02T19:54:02 < qyx> I would not buy it
2023-03-02T19:54:30 < BrainDamage> ahahaha
2023-03-02T19:54:35 < BrainDamage> did you gain any money from helium?
2023-03-02T19:54:55 < qyx> 120 NHT altogether, 60 of it is mine
2023-03-02T19:55:20 < qyx> considering the current HNT/EUR price, not much
2023-03-02T19:55:24 < srk> I wanted to try https://github.com/gotthardp/lorawan-server but only managed to package it, had no real use for private network
2023-03-02T19:55:38 < qyx> I am using chirpstack
2023-03-02T19:56:52 < srk> cool
2023-03-02T19:57:28 < qyx> but it has some specifics
2023-03-02T19:59:22 < bitmask> if contact info for a job you applied to is scarce (its an indie dev with like 5-10 employees) and they have a discord server and I found the CEO on there, is it a bad idea to message him and introduce myself and ask how the job search is going?
2023-03-02T20:03:40 < fenugrec> just pretend you already work for them and ask him when the first cheques start coming in
2023-03-02T20:04:31 < bitmask> haha
2023-03-02T20:04:36 < bitmask> i decided not to message him
2023-03-02T20:04:58 < bitmask> he doesnt seem to chat much on the server... if he did I probably would have
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2023-03-02T20:57:46 < fenugrec> you don't think it would be weird for them, that some random dude dropped into a company chatroom "hey guys did you hire me yet"
2023-03-02T20:59:20 < Steffanx-> is it a company chatroom or .. just a public company chatroom?
2023-03-02T21:00:40 < kaki> chatroom as in online or as in in office?
2023-03-02T21:01:19 < Steffanx-> discord.. so online ;)
2023-03-02T21:01:37 < Steffanx-> Welcome mr kaki hows the day?
2023-03-02T21:01:47 < kaki> refactoring my shit
2023-03-02T21:01:50 < zyp> sup
2023-03-02T21:01:54 < kaki> it's falling apart
2023-03-02T21:02:17 < kaki> I mean when it compiled with 0 errors I tore it apart
2023-03-02T21:02:36 < kaki> somebody else would have just left it there
2023-03-02T21:02:55 < Steffanx-> Not really. If it compiles but doesnt work properly..
2023-03-02T21:03:15 < kaki> irrelevant
2023-03-02T21:03:23 < Steffanx-> Yes working code is irrelevant
2023-03-02T21:03:24 < kaki> it's all about the visual appereance of the code
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2023-03-02T21:03:31 < fenugrec> # of compiler warnings if a good metric for success, yes
2023-03-02T21:03:42 < kaki> and the structure
2023-03-02T21:03:50 < kaki> following the vision
2023-03-02T21:04:13 < kaki> logical operation of the code is just a finishing touch
2023-03-02T21:04:24 < Steffanx-> absolutely.
2023-03-02T21:04:37 < kaki> you know I'm trolling
2023-03-02T21:04:41 < Steffanx-> You should go work for microsoft 
2023-03-02T21:04:59 < kaki> hm
2023-03-02T21:05:17 < kaki> I don't understand
2023-03-02T21:05:34 < kaki> doesn't that ruin a good hobby?
2023-03-02T21:05:47 < Steffanx-> what is a good hobby?
2023-03-02T21:06:19 < kaki> idk
2023-03-02T21:06:24 < kaki> coding
2023-03-02T21:06:30 < kaki> or at least 1% of it
2023-03-02T21:06:53 < kaki> the moment you get into the zone
2023-03-02T21:07:07 < kaki> or thought you did
2023-03-02T21:07:37 < kaki> just ODing coffeine and shaking
2023-03-02T21:08:08 < kaki> "I'm getting into the zone I'm feeling it"
2023-03-02T21:09:42 < kaki> you know I have healthy approach to coding Steffanx-
2023-03-02T21:10:34 < Steffanx-> musics for kaki  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz1YzG5f5UY
2023-03-02T21:11:21 < kaki> did you just ctrl-f "zone" from youtubes+
2023-03-02T21:11:45 < Steffanx-> no i googled "I'm getting into the zone I'm feeling it" without the quotes
2023-03-02T21:12:02 < Steffanx-> And was like.. this is a kaki-song
2023-03-02T21:12:16 < kaki> it's not
2023-03-02T21:12:30 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnopHCL1Jk8 the better zone
2023-03-02T21:12:31 < Steffanx-> Youre not in the zone.
2023-03-02T21:12:50 < kaki> Im not
2023-03-02T21:13:33 < Steffanx-> Ah good old times. Havent heard it for a while
2023-03-02T21:15:07 < kaki> we were in a train for summer trip listening that song from 2eur headphones
2023-03-02T21:16:10 < Steffanx-> Now youtube recommends this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_cJtUEzdg (the 2 can sing, but why its recommended..)
2023-03-02T21:19:08 < kaki> it's just generic recomended content
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2023-03-02T21:22:05 < kaki> but you watch a lot of those karaoke things maybe it's a relevant recommd
2023-03-02T21:22:53 < kaki> any blues pros here?
2023-03-02T21:23:09 < kaki> I don't mean bluez but blues
2023-03-02T21:32:19 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOb_xLlqfEE I'll try this
2023-03-02T21:54:24 < Steffanx-> its not even monday kaki 
2023-03-02T21:54:41 < kaki> idc
2023-03-02T21:54:54 < Steffanx-> lol, time to get into the zone
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2023-03-02T22:03:03 < qyx> kaki: no but mr. kavanagh is into boogie woogie
2023-03-02T22:03:34 < qyx> which may be considered similar by a random listener
2023-03-02T22:04:12 < qyx> semi related, how would RTOS pros implement a wake lock?
2023-03-02T22:04:44 < qyx> it is a kind of a counting semaphore use case, but inverted
2023-03-02T22:05:27 < Steffanx-> please not that youtube guy qyx . ppleeeaase
2023-03-02T22:06:00 < qyx> why Steff
2023-03-02T22:06:02 < kaki> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/power/wakelock.c
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2023-03-02T22:06:17 < kaki> linux wakelock for your inspiration
2023-03-02T22:06:24 < qyx> he is okish, isn't he?
2023-03-02T22:06:52 < Steffanx-> qyx: Every video i've seen of that guy makes me cringe. The attitude/vibe of that guy me annoys me A LOT.
2023-03-02T22:06:58 < kaki> link
2023-03-02T22:07:03 < kaki> cringe link plz
2023-03-02T22:07:36 < Steffanx-> Especially his "im a random dude with sun glasses. Let me show my amazing boogie woogie piano skills"
2023-03-02T22:08:20 < Steffanx-> pretty much any video kaki https://www.youtube.com/@DrKBoogieWoogie/videos
2023-03-02T22:08:32 < Steffanx-> assuming that's the guy qyx  is talking about
2023-03-02T22:09:40 < qyx> Steffanx-: thats a uhm, I would call it a "youtube content family"
2023-03-02T22:10:36 < qyx> there are many "I am on omegle and can play you anything", "I can recover cars from ditches", "I am reacting to..", etc.
2023-03-02T22:11:21 < qyx> and one of them is "I pretend to be noob to show you my proness later"
2023-03-02T22:12:12 < qyx> kaki: I don't follow, that's probably a different kind of wakelock
2023-03-02T22:13:22 < kaki> I rather enjoy studio recorded musics
2023-03-02T22:14:26 < Steffanx-> with autotune
2023-03-02T22:14:54 < kaki> before autotune
2023-03-02T22:16:07 < qyx> but another guy for kaki is frank tedesco
2023-03-02T22:16:21 < qyx> I hope Steff will like his attitude more
2023-03-02T22:16:52 < kaki> nice beard
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2023-03-02T22:23:44 < Steffanx-> Seems like a much nicer guy qyx
2023-03-02T22:23:57 < Steffanx-> too much talking though :P
2023-03-02T22:24:03 < Steffanx-> -ing
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2023-03-02T23:29:46 < karlp> who's mr kavanagh?
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2023-03-02T23:36:06 < karlp> is it this piano in public dude?
2023-03-02T23:42:31 < Steffanx-> Yeah with sunglasses 
2023-03-02T23:43:27 < kaki> are there pure functions in c++?
2023-03-02T23:44:13 < kaki> [[gnu::pure]]?
2023-03-02T23:48:31 < BrainDamage> there's pure virtual classes
2023-03-02T23:48:37 < BrainDamage> classes that lack an implementation for their methods, typically you inherit them and then you define the methods
2023-03-02T23:48:51 < BrainDamage> this lets you create an abstract interface that childs can be casted to
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--- Day changed pe maalis 03 2023
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2023-03-03T00:10:03 < qyx> karlp: yeah
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2023-03-03T00:49:31 < kaki> BrainDamage: example?
2023-03-03T00:52:45 < BrainDamage> you create a pure virtual class animals, which eg has the methods skin_type, eye_number, etc, and then you have child classes of arachnids which inherits animals, which needs to define all the methods in animals, but eg has also has has_egg_sac
2023-03-03T00:53:46 < BrainDamage> and if you cast an arachnid type class to animals, then you make the has_egg_sac() method inaccessible
2023-03-03T00:54:13 < BrainDamage> this also works for normal inheritance, but the key concept is that the base class doesn't have a function for it, so every child that inherits it, has to implement the function in order to be able to get instantiated
2023-03-03T00:54:42 < BrainDamage> so the base class of animals  only has the function declaration of skin_type(), not its implementation
2023-03-03T00:55:05 < BrainDamage> virtual classes are generally used to implement interfaces
2023-03-03T00:55:45 < kaki> yes that interface thing
2023-03-03T00:55:50 < kaki> any examples?
2023-03-03T01:00:48 < BrainDamage> back when I wrote a lobby for a game, I had a pure class of battles, then 2 implementation, one for multiplayer, another singleplayer, some methods were pure virtual because of the api I had to interface were completely different
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2023-03-03T01:01:55 < BrainDamage> and the base class had the common logic, like handling playerlist, etc
2023-03-03T01:02:07 < BrainDamage> then, the jraphical interface would use the base class interface to handle the unified logic
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2023-03-03T01:02:59 < qyx> he became saturated
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2023-03-03T01:08:21 < jadew> I don't think that's what a pure function is tho
2023-03-03T01:08:49 < jadew> IIRC a pure function is one that only relies on its parameters, but I don't remember in what context I came across that
2023-03-03T01:09:35 < karlp> zyp: what did you use to decompile the android app you were peeking at?
2023-03-03T01:10:11 < zyp> some online shit that's based on jadx
2023-03-03T01:10:44 < jadew> what did you do to it?
2023-03-03T01:11:16 < zyp> working out the protocol to some BLE device
2023-03-03T01:11:54 < jadew> I remember using something that decompiled it into something like java assembly language, because that was the only thing I could compile back into a working thing
2023-03-03T01:12:29 < jadew> guess that's not important if you don't plan to put it back
2023-03-03T01:13:57 < jadew> I remember now where I stumbled upon pure functions... in type hell
2023-03-03T01:14:44 < jadew> they're useful from a type analysis standpoint, because you know they won't mutate anything
2023-03-03T01:15:59 < jadew> so types that are non-mutable/non-mutators are allowed to call them
2023-03-03T01:19:40 < jadew> linux fucking sucks
2023-03-03T01:20:38 < jadew> every effort you put into figuring things out is nullified within one year or so, at most, because they keep changing crap
2023-03-03T01:21:39 < karlp> if you did it all in an online tool, sounds like it was pretty fucking easy :)
2023-03-03T01:22:12 < jadew> what online tool?
2023-03-03T01:22:42 < jadew> I'm talking about simple things, like setting a default gateway
2023-03-03T01:23:00 < zyp> indeed, I dropped the .apk into some random webpage and got back a zip with decompiled source
2023-03-03T01:23:17 < jadew> ah, he's talking about the apk thing
2023-03-03T01:24:03 < rustyaxe> jadew: just ditch all that systemd trash and it works fine just like it used to
2023-03-03T01:26:06 < jadew> rustyaxe, sounds more difficult than going along with it
2023-03-03T01:27:10 < karlp> ok decompiler.com is already way nicer than ghidra.
2023-03-03T01:27:17 < karlp> at least for dumbfucks like me.
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2023-03-03T01:41:46 < Laurence_b> I’ve never liked Harry Potter. I didn’t even finish the first book. Potter is an English schoolboy genius living in a largely male, white fairytale land that looks like Oxbridge (for the elite). He’s a little patriarch that resorts to magic & violence to rule.
2023-03-03T01:42:50 < BrainDamage> nobody cares
2023-03-03T01:46:46 < Laurence_b> https://cherwell.org/2023/03/02/onyeka-nwelue/
2023-03-03T01:50:05 < Laurence_b> this guy sounds based
2023-03-03T01:50:14 < Laurence_b> Poles btfo'd
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2023-03-03T18:15:44 < karlp> ok, reduced my example test case to crash more now.  ~progress?
2023-03-03T18:20:36 < karlp> annnnd no, it's decided to stop crashing again. w.t.f
2023-03-03T18:22:01 < karlp> no, running in the wrong window.
2023-03-03T18:22:11 < karlp> how can this shti use 100% cpu anyway?! what was the point of asyncio
2023-03-03T18:56:23 < qyx> pls bring rs232 back
2023-03-03T18:57:44 < fenugrec> I said that last week
2023-03-03T18:58:20 < PaulFertser> With RING please.
2023-03-03T18:58:36 < fenugrec> ring?
2023-03-03T18:59:14 < josuah> karlp: would randomly halting execution from GDB and looking at the stats for backtraces give some estimation of where it spend its time?
2023-03-03T18:59:25 < josuah> karlp: for instance, running 1000 times from a script
2023-03-03T18:59:33 < josuah> my suggestion might be a bit stupid :S
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2023-03-03T18:59:46 < fenugrec> josuah that's exactly how PC-sampling profiling works
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2023-03-03T19:00:15 < josuah> fenugrec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232#Ring_Indicator <- I suppose this, I did not know
2023-03-03T19:00:49 < PaulFertser> And V.34bis was good enough when we needed to talk over a single pair of long lines.
2023-03-03T19:00:51 < josuah> > Ring Indicator (RI) is a signal sent from the DCE to the DTE device. It indicates to the terminal device that the phone line is ringing.
2023-03-03T19:01:06 < PaulFertser> Yeah, that, ty josuah 
2023-03-03T19:01:15 < josuah> ooh! "hey, it's time to drop your modem connection, someone's calling in!" <- something like that maybe
2023-03-03T19:01:37 < PaulFertser> josuah: (randomly halting) that's what OpenOCD has integrated, it generates a gmon profile that way.
2023-03-03T19:01:43 < josuah> I am surprised by "hardware people" over time
2023-03-03T19:02:05 < josuah> being clever a lot to circumvent the limitations there were
2023-03-03T19:02:09 < rustyaxe> im not sure RI is raised on call waiting tho
2023-03-03T19:02:10 < PaulFertser> josuah: but cortex-m3 and better have ITM counters which are much more precise and nicer, OpenOCD supports that too.
2023-03-03T19:02:11 < fenugrec> ah you should've said "RI" / "pin 9"
2023-03-03T19:02:21 < josuah> with the limit being raised leading to much less cleverness required
2023-03-03T19:02:39 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: sorry, RS-232 knowledge kinda faded away in my head by now.
2023-03-03T19:03:15 < fenugrec> hehe I was wiring DB9 adapters a few weeks ago, almost still remember the pin #
2023-03-03T19:03:19 < PaulFertser> josuah: but not backtraces just IP samplng.
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2023-03-03T19:03:35 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: DE9 ;)
2023-03-03T19:04:04 < fenugrec> We've had that argument before !
2023-03-03T19:04:22 < PaulFertser> Does it make you feel more comfortable or less?
2023-03-03T19:04:24 < fenugrec> DE9 is an illusion
2023-03-03T19:05:00 < josuah> PaulFertser: then that does not require halting the device? just sampling a register on the go?
2023-03-03T19:05:19 < PaulFertser> josuah: sampling the register requires halting. Using ITM does not.
2023-03-03T19:07:24 < karlp> using the DWT.
2023-03-03T19:07:33 < karlp> it's even on m0s, unlike ITM.
2023-03-03T19:10:22 < PaulFertser> karlp: yep, thank you for correcting
2023-03-03T19:10:27 < josuah> all the things standardized by ARM... RISC-V are great tools, but have a lot to catch-up
2023-03-03T19:11:16 < josuah> around the debugging side of things at least. I'd have to dive down https://github.com/riscv/riscv-debug-spec to know
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2023-03-03T19:21:52 < qyx> M8-M8 3x0.25 current rating, 2 A y/n?
2023-03-03T19:22:14 < qyx> contact current rating is usually 3 A
2023-03-03T19:25:09 < Ecco> Hi guys :)
2023-03-03T19:25:23 < Ecco> Would you have a recommendadtion of a library to use to parse and generate JSON?
2023-03-03T19:26:08 < zyp> what language?
2023-03-03T19:26:12 < qyx> I am only using import json
2023-03-03T19:26:24 < qyx> and not doing drugs in C on embedded
2023-03-03T19:26:26 < Ecco> C++
2023-03-03T19:26:30 < zyp> for C++, I've heard good things about https://github.com/nlohmann/json
2023-03-03T19:26:50 < zyp> not sure if it's suitable for embedded though
2023-03-03T19:26:53 < Ecco> Actually, C++ with no STL nor dynamic memory allocation
2023-03-03T19:26:58 < qyx> do we have software zypsnips?
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2023-03-03T19:27:53 < jpa-> i have used jsmn, it works but is not very easy to use
2023-03-03T19:27:58 < josuah> https://github.com/zserge/jsmn 
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2023-03-03T19:28:13 < josuah> jpa-: ditto!
2023-03-03T19:28:36 < josuah> with the "no dynamic memory allocation" getting in the way maybe
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2023-03-03T19:32:08 < josuah> maybe some nice interface for parsing json could be: void json_feed_text(char *more_json_text, bool (*callback_fired_on_every_node)(json_chain_t *description_of_where_you_ar_on_the_tree))
2023-03-03T19:33:01 < josuah> something letting you process the tree as it comes in the form of text, without holding anything in memory but the path through the tree
2023-03-03T19:33:04 < jpa-> probably not, because callbacks are very annoying and quite inefficient
2023-03-03T19:34:13 < josuah> or maybe the other way around then: functions to explore a JSON text that is not parsed yet
2023-03-03T19:35:02 < josuah> and something like json_array_enter() to dive down an element, then json_get_type(), json_find_key() etc.
2023-03-03T19:35:08 < josuah> json_array_next() to skip an array element
2023-03-03T19:35:18 < josuah> and that would also trigger more parsing
2023-03-03T19:35:42 < josuah> maybe I am thinking about fitting JSON on something way too small though
2023-03-03T19:37:27 < qyx> tinycbor has exactly this API
2023-03-03T19:37:32 < qyx> except it is for CBOR, not JSON
2023-03-03T19:37:51 < Ecco> For parsing I've seen this: https://github.com/chadaustin/sajson
2023-03-03T19:39:39 < josuah> JSON is nice but kind of tricky in may usecases that are not "push some config-style data"
2023-03-03T19:40:27 < josuah> like processing a stream of data: if the stream starts like this: [ {"key": "value"}, {"key": "value"}, {"key": "value"}, 
2023-03-03T19:40:57 < josuah> a json_serialize()/json_deserialize() API would not work too well
2023-03-03T19:41:13 < josuah> maybe some sane way to go is using multiple JSON payloads for these cases
2023-03-03T19:42:43 < josuah> like one short JSON dict per line
2023-03-03T19:44:48 < josuah> but if the JSON comes from a 3rd-party over HTTP that is another story... Not likely a story for STM32 though!
2023-03-03T19:46:31 < josuah> for some reason, web developers did try to turn MIPI into the usual JSON over REST over HTTP yet
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2023-03-03T19:57:03 < Steffanx-> if that Tedesco guy really plays by ear he gets my thumbs up for sure, qyx  
2023-03-03T19:58:32 < josuah> qyx: thanks for tinycbor
2023-03-03T20:01:31 < qyx> I also plan to try libecbor https://github.com/rimio/libecbor
2023-03-03T20:25:28 < Ecco> tinycbor looks nice indeed, thanks qyx
2023-03-03T20:25:48 < Ecco> Is there a JSON library with a similar API?
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2023-03-03T22:42:10 < Laurence_b> In the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, when little was known about the virus, the U.K. government briefly considered asking the public to exterminate every cat
2023-03-03T22:42:12 < Laurence_b> extremely based
2023-03-03T23:02:25 < Steffanx-> ok Laurence_b 
2023-03-03T23:02:40 < zyp> they did something similar in denmark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Danish_mink_cull
2023-03-03T23:04:20 < Steffanx-> same here, with minks
2023-03-03T23:05:00 < Steffanx-> apparently they gassed 2.6 million
2023-03-03T23:05:21 < Steffanx-> they as in we, zhe dutch.
2023-03-03T23:07:33 < Laurence_b> gas the cats, species war now
2023-03-03T23:09:02 < Steffanx-> Minks
2023-03-03T23:09:23 < Steffanx-> How's your day Mr Laurence_b  ?
2023-03-03T23:09:52 < Laurence_b> working on TGVs
2023-03-03T23:10:12 < Laurence_b> someone wanted to plug an RS232 into an MVB port....
2023-03-03T23:10:17 < Laurence_b> masterminds at wurk
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2023-03-03T23:16:29 < BrainDamage> bonus points if it's the optical fiber variant
2023-03-03T23:20:07 < Laurence_b> lmao
2023-03-03T23:20:33 < Laurence_b> yeah they confused a fibre to wired MVB adaptor with MVB to CAN
2023-03-03T23:21:09 < Laurence_b> I wanted to make a STM32 based MVB interface, but no time yet
2023-03-03T23:21:19 < Laurence_b> should be possible with timers and DMA in theory...
2023-03-03T23:21:45 < Laurence_b> intergalactic cringe https://scottmannion.substack.com/p/nation-as-implicit-organism-and-distributed?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
2023-03-03T23:22:33 < Laurence_b> I cant even right now, this is worse than SJW shit
2023-03-03T23:24:42 < Steffanx-> you really expect us to read that or .. ?
2023-03-03T23:25:04 < Laurence_b> its quite funny, but gets tedious after the first few paragraphs of insanity
2023-03-03T23:26:05 < Laurence_b> SJWs: ha look at this batshit wordsalad we wrote, bet you cant do better than that   Tradtards: hold my trad-beer
2023-03-03T23:31:37 < Laurence_b> BrainDamage: do you know much about MVB? Does anyone make transceiver ASICs for it that are actually available?
2023-03-03T23:32:52 < BrainDamage> sorry, I only know it exists
2023-03-03T23:33:17 < Laurence_b> ah ok
2023-03-03T23:33:33 < Laurence_b> seems Bombardier used to make an ASIC, but no longer available
2023-03-03T23:34:12 < Laurence_b> I have some control panels off Stockholm metro with PC104 MVB cards, need to get round to working out the BOM
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2023-03-03T23:52:12 < karlp> just got one of these in the mail, it's even smaller than I was I expecting!
2023-03-03T23:52:14 < karlp> https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/maixzero/m0s/m0s.html
2023-03-03T23:54:56 < josuah> BL616 \o/
2023-03-03T23:55:02 < josuah> anything to wrap it? like a carrier board?
2023-03-03T23:55:39 < josuah> 320MHz... kind of fast!
2023-03-03T23:57:33 < josuah> oh, right this thing: https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/maixzero/m0s/m0s.html#M0S-Dock
--- Day changed la maalis 04 2023
2023-03-04T00:00:36 < qyx> wasn't maix kendryte?
2023-03-04T00:00:48 < qyx> kendryte not good anymore?
2023-03-04T00:00:50 < josuah> maix even had STM32 iterations
2023-03-04T00:01:02 < josuah> and firmware for ATmega328P
2023-03-04T00:01:16 < josuah> it's a bit like "Arduino" if I understand
2023-03-04T00:01:46 < josuah> everything is commonly called just "Maix", but it means a heap of different things
2023-03-04T00:09:25 < josuah> example use-case from their website: surveillance cameras, surveillance cameras, surveillance cameras...
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2023-03-04T01:11:15 < aandrew> my litevna64 arrived
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2023-03-04T17:29:56 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone know a bootloader project for STM32 that supports I2C?
2023-03-04T17:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2023-03-04T17:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> A boot loader is simply just the program... 
2023-03-04T17:35:43 < Mangy_Dog> if you want to make a multi layer program that starts off as a boot loader. Just do that
2023-03-04T17:35:49 < Mangy_Dog> expose your i2c
2023-03-04T17:43:41 < ColdKeyboard> Well that's true to some degree I guess.
2023-03-04T17:43:55 < Mangy_Dog> how so?
2023-03-04T17:45:02 < Mangy_Dog> oh sorry
2023-03-04T17:45:05 < Mangy_Dog> thought you said not tru
2023-03-04T17:45:07 < Mangy_Dog> true
2023-03-04T17:45:16 < ColdKeyboard> :)
2023-03-04T17:45:25 < Mangy_Dog> i had 12 hours sleep last night and i still feel tired D:
2023-03-04T17:45:28 < ColdKeyboard> I guess I'm interested if anyone here has used a I2C bootloader and would recommend it?
2023-03-04T17:46:05 < ColdKeyboard> Mangy_Dog My truth table is like: Not enough sleep => tired, too much sleep => tired :)
2023-03-04T17:46:35 < Mangy_Dog> :D
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2023-03-04T18:05:40 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: I haven't seen any except the internal one
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2023-03-04T18:10:36 < bitmask> woo, amazon agreed to refund my $35 snafu
2023-03-04T18:25:12 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, I'm planning to do one soon
2023-03-04T18:25:26 < ColdKeyboard> Oh nice!
2023-03-04T18:26:07 < ColdKeyboard> I looked at the internal one but for some reason I'm not too confident it would work well... So I'm thinking of either making my own or if there is an open-source one, that would save me a ton of time
2023-03-04T18:27:37 < zyp> I'm likely going for a bank-swap approach that avoids a separate bootloader though
2023-03-04T18:27:54 < fenugrec> you're not confident the factory-programmed bootloader will work well ... ?
2023-03-04T18:28:03 < zyp> i.e. bootloader embedded in application, writes to opposite bank and swaps banks
2023-03-04T18:28:34 < qyx> fenugrec: I would not bne either
2023-03-04T18:29:39 < zyp> fenugrec, for my use, I haven't even looked at the internal one, I don't expect it to play well along with my addressing scheme
2023-03-04T18:29:41 < qyx> also pls make AA of 13500 size, I am missing that one millimeter in diameter
2023-03-04T18:30:34 < fenugrec> yea, builting bootloader maybe doesn't have all desirable features, but dismissing it on a vague suspicion is... interesting
2023-03-04T18:30:38 < fenugrec> *built-in
2023-03-04T18:31:09 < zyp> vague suspicion?
2023-03-04T18:31:42 < fenugrec> "I'm not too confident it would work well"
2023-03-04T18:34:03 < zyp> sounds reasonable enough to me
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2023-03-04T18:39:19 < zyp> anyway, bootloaders are easy to do, mine typically consist of a flashwriter, a typical command set and a transport, and while I've never done one with i2c as a transport, that's not gonna change much
2023-03-04T18:40:33 < zyp> actually, I'm considering using protonium over i2c for it, because I'm already considering using protonium over i2c for other stuff, and I've been meaning to do a generic bootloader protonium service definition
2023-03-04T18:45:01 < zyp> my flashwriters typically looks like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp#n71
2023-03-04T18:45:24 < zyp> one function to initialize, one to write a new block of data, one to finalize
2023-03-04T18:46:18 < zyp> which maps to corresponding commands
2023-03-04T18:46:45 < zyp> and then you'll have commands to reset and read status/metadata
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2023-03-04T19:11:09 < fenugrec> one BL I made has a similar very simple flashing layer https://github.com/fenugrec/npkern/blob/master/platf.h#L115
2023-03-04T19:11:33 < fenugrec> runs from RAM, while mainloop handles a half-duplex serial link for commands
2023-03-04T19:13:23 < fenugrec> no separate 'finalize' call, every write op re-protects flash once its done (it's a single reg write too)
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2023-03-04T20:11:30 < qyx> fenugrec: being not confident is a legit reason if it is based of a past experience and I would not even consider using the internal one in production (other than eg. EOL flashing) because 1. I had a bad time getting it to work when I needed it and 2. its protocols are weird enough to not use them
2023-03-04T20:11:39 < qyx> they lack addressing, etc.
2023-03-04T20:11:48 < qyx> their CAN bootloader is completely unusable
2023-03-04T20:12:24 < qyx> maybe the DFU one is ok, but I didn't use that one
2023-03-04T20:14:19 < qyx> anyway, for in-app updates it is unsuitable
2023-03-04T20:20:14 < jpa-> i have used DFU one for field updates; jumping from application to it for convenience, and hardware button for recovery
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2023-03-04T20:35:27 < zyp> my experience is that if it's worth having a bootloader at all, it's usually worth having something better than the built in one
2023-03-04T20:37:53 < zyp> the most suitable use of the built in one is probably as a recovery solution triggered by a testpoint on boot0 or something like that
2023-03-04T20:42:47 < qyx> speaking of pressure sensors
2023-03-04T20:42:58 < qyx> has anyone used ST LPS27?
2023-03-04T20:43:47 < qyx> trying to solve the classic dillema, ST or TDK?
2023-03-04T20:43:59 < qyx> ICP-10125 is the other one
2023-03-04T20:51:35 < qyx> this is what happens when a datasheet formatting intern minion tries to format a block of code https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Li3qp.png
2023-03-04T20:51:47 < qyx> not knowing what it is
2023-03-04T20:53:49 < zyp> haha
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2023-03-04T21:10:53 < srk> zyp: what's protonium?
2023-03-04T21:11:12 < zyp> my protobuf rpc lib
2023-03-04T21:13:44 < srk> aah, cool
2023-03-04T21:22:33 < zyp> I'm planning to define some common services, like poke i2c, poke spi and so on
2023-03-04T21:22:53 < zyp> which I can then add reusable implementations of to laks
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2023-03-04T21:39:39 < fenugrec> qyx, fair
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2023-03-05T07:31:55 < ColdKeyboard> Did anyone here use the I2C buffer/repeater PCA9517A?
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2023-03-05T10:36:53 < josuah> ColdKeyboard: I did not know that part, I have seen discrete transistor level shifter more often.
2023-03-05T10:37:00 < josuah> have some parts that are not 5V tolerant?
2023-03-05T10:44:40 < josuah> Did anyone use CY8Cx/PSoC MCU? Do you like them? How do they feel like?
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2023-03-05T12:34:10 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: only TCA4311A
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2023-03-05T20:49:22 < kaki> hello
2023-03-05T20:49:51 < josuah> hello
2023-03-05T20:50:13 < kaki> sup
2023-03-05T20:51:49 < qyx> hello kakis
2023-03-05T20:53:35 < kaki> sup
2023-03-05T20:53:47 < kaki> how are strain gauges?
2023-03-05T20:54:18 < kaki> did you get diy instrumentation amp working properly?
2023-03-05T20:58:46 < josuah> instrumentation amp... I just discovered that last week
2023-03-05T20:59:00 < josuah> I thought it was a generic term for "just some amp you'd use in a lab", but not
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2023-03-05T21:23:49 < Steffanx-> lol josuah 
2023-03-05T21:37:32 < kaki> from qyx silence I can assume he is still iterating that amp
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2023-03-05T21:47:53 < kaki> hyperblaxter
2023-03-05T21:48:05 < Laurence_b> hyperborean
2023-03-05T21:48:13 < kaki> how is spain?
2023-03-05T21:48:23 < Laurence_b> back in britbong land now
2023-03-05T21:48:35 < kaki> international laurence
2023-03-05T21:49:01 < Laurence_b> til France is making superconducting third rail railways
2023-03-05T21:49:06 < Laurence_b> this seems kind of lulzy
2023-03-05T21:51:47 < Laurence_b> like a horse and carriage with genetically modified horses for high speed
2023-03-05T21:52:39 < kaki> why superconducting?
2023-03-05T21:52:46 < kaki> I assume the contact rail is not
2023-03-05T21:52:55 < kaki> but a bus that is burried somewhere
2023-03-05T21:53:14 < kaki> feed that some liquid N2
2023-03-05T21:56:08 < Laurence_b> yeah, feedline down the side of the rail, cooled by LN2
2023-03-05T21:56:30 < Laurence_b> saves money compared to huge copper busbar / cabling bundle
2023-03-05T21:56:44 < kaki> ah
2023-03-05T21:56:46 < kaki> money
2023-03-05T21:56:53 < kaki> interestings
2023-03-05T21:56:56 < kaki> we are there now
2023-03-05T21:57:09 < kaki> superconductors save money compared to copper
2023-03-05T21:58:40 < kaki> zyp: what if my method has a template do I add tempate both to declaration and definition?
2023-03-05T22:03:05 < zyp> wrong question
2023-03-05T22:03:54 < kaki> I bet it is
2023-03-05T22:04:48 < zyp> why do you have separate declaration and definition?
2023-03-05T22:06:17 < kaki> for outlining the method
2023-03-05T22:06:38 < kaki> it's an adventure
2023-03-05T22:08:05 < zyp> so, the thing about template functions is that they're normally made on demand
2023-03-05T22:08:46 < kaki> yes
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2023-03-05T22:08:59 < zyp> which means that the template function body needs to be available where it's called so a variant for the types you call it with can be made
2023-03-05T22:09:14 < zyp> so you normally don't put template functions in .cpp files, just headers
2023-03-05T22:09:22 < kaki> hmm
2023-03-05T22:09:38 < zyp> which means that there's usually not a point in separating the declaration from the definition
2023-03-05T22:09:54 < kaki> I definitelly want to outline this
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2023-03-05T22:12:20 < kaki> can I outline it in .hpp?
2023-03-05T22:12:41 < kaki> in combined declaration definition?
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2023-03-05T22:15:53 < PaulFertser> I know people here have fun with ChatGPT. Here's a rather elaborate theory explaining certain results one gets with it, and also they developed a "jailbreaking" method which tested successfully: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/D7PumeYTDPfBTp3i7/the-waluigi-effect-mega-post
2023-03-05T22:16:03 < zyp> kaki, probably
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2023-03-05T22:59:38 < qyx> kaki: it works but I had some other work to do recently
2023-03-05T23:00:11 < kaki> a gig?
2023-03-05T23:01:39 < qyx> a what
2023-03-05T23:03:30 < qyx> unrelated, I am seriously considering trashing lorawan, it is unsuitable for anything serious
2023-03-05T23:04:19 < karlp> lol
2023-03-05T23:05:19 < Steffanx-> Why qyx  
2023-03-05T23:06:35 < qyx> multiple issues there are 1. LoRa is only at the last mile 2. a local network is essentiallynot local, it needs some server infra since that part is written in go, erlang or similar weird languages
2023-03-05T23:06:53 < qyx> lorawan gateway is not low power by design and cannot be made such
2023-03-05T23:07:03 < qyx> there is no multihop forwarding
2023-03-05T23:07:33 < karlp> hehe people ar efinally realising it's "become your own cellular operator, but shitter"
2023-03-05T23:07:43 < qyx> since the gateway-network server connction needs to be kind of realtime (tx-rx delay)
2023-03-05T23:07:57 < qyx> it needs a pretty solid connectiom
2023-03-05T23:08:23 < qyx> so
2023-03-05T23:08:51 < qyx> so far a 6LoWPAN on a subgig radio would be much more awesome
2023-03-05T23:09:44 < qyx> maybe even on 2.4G if longer hops can be made using multiple shorter
2023-03-05T23:10:52 < qyx> LoRa as is is not that bad, bud it lacks a serious scheduled time slot allocation MAC
2023-03-05T23:11:07 < qyx> with multihop forwarding
2023-03-05T23:11:31 < qyx> and decentralised, meaning the roles of nodes are equal
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2023-03-05T23:17:55 < qyx> so, any experience with thread or similar things?
2023-03-05T23:27:23 < BrainDamage> careful about all-equal networks, it means that each node potentially has to bear n^2 traffic
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2023-03-06T07:53:22 < Trevyn> hello?
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2023-03-06T09:41:19 < benishor> is it tea you're looking for?
2023-03-06T09:41:35 < benishor> https://www.musiccrowns.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hello.jpg
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2023-03-06T13:00:06 < Laurence_b> suppp
2023-03-06T13:00:25  * Laurence_b is raging at Rpi
2023-03-06T13:00:38 < Laurence_b> its chewing its emmc up with billions of lines of crap
2023-03-06T13:00:56 < Laurence_b> thought this was fixed ages ago :(
2023-03-06T13:01:57 < rustyaxe> devuan and a handful of tmpfs mounts will bring peace to your flash filesystem.
2023-03-06T13:02:51 < Laurence_b>  pam_unix(sudo:session)
2023-03-06T13:02:55 < Laurence_b> what the fuuucckkk
2023-03-06T13:03:14 < Laurence_b> billions of lines of that yet I removed it from logs last year
2023-03-06T13:03:49 < Laurence_b> :msg, contains, "pam_unix" ~
2023-03-06T13:12:05 < specing> > Rpi
2023-03-06T13:12:08 < specing> it's a toy, who cares
2023-03-06T13:15:23 < Laurence_b> presumably something changed
2023-03-06T13:15:35 < Laurence_b> this command no longer fixes the issue
2023-03-06T13:16:21 < Laurence_b> yeah I just restarted, already megabytes of "pam_unix"
2023-03-06T13:18:08 < PaulFertser> ~ is a deprecated action in rsyslog
2023-03-06T13:18:25 < PaulFertser> But it should still work. Probably something else writes logs there for you, not rsyslog?
2023-03-06T13:21:02 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/1fAMKiqt
2023-03-06T13:21:05 < Laurence_b> looks like that
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2023-03-06T13:22:47 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: probably you have journald writing to log files directly?
2023-03-06T13:23:03 < Laurence_b> oh ok
2023-03-06T13:23:27 < Laurence_b> is there a config file for journald?
2023-03-06T13:23:38 < PaulFertser> /etc/systemd/journald.conf
2023-03-06T13:24:24 < Laurence_b> ok thanks
2023-03-06T13:25:39 < Laurence_b> do you know if there is a way to filter out matching lines, similarly to rsyslog.conf?
2023-03-06T13:32:06 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: guess no, just use rsyslog.
2023-03-06T13:32:42 < Laurence_b> hmm something must be wrong then
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2023-03-06T15:16:14 < Laurence_b> looks like all hardware is broken
2023-03-06T15:16:29 < Laurence_b> not sure when it broke, looks like its been this way for a while
2023-03-06T15:16:40 < Laurence_b> rsyslog.conf has no effect on anything
2023-03-06T15:44:17 < srk> Laurence_b: for journald, you can set Storage=volatile so it doesn't write logs to disk but only keeps them in mem
2023-03-06T16:09:55 < benishor> does anyone by chance know of a simple scheme/lisp pretty printing algorithm?
2023-03-06T16:10:16 < benishor> I need to write one and wouldn't like to reinvent the wheel
2023-03-06T16:37:29 < Laurence_b> is there a way to determine the source of log lines from journald ?
2023-03-06T16:38:30 < srk> always some unit - the field after date
2023-03-06T16:39:38 < srk> after date and hostname
2023-03-06T16:39:39 < Laurence_b> Mar 06 14:39:11 raspberrypi sudo[22852]: pam_unix(sudo:session): session closed
2023-03-06T16:39:55 < srk> sudo .. 
2023-03-06T16:40:24 < Laurence_b> so did this bypass rsyslog  ?
2023-03-06T16:40:40 < srk> it's probably the other way around - journald -> rsyslog
2023-03-06T16:40:49 < srk> raspbian?
2023-03-06T16:40:51 < Laurence_b> yes
2023-03-06T16:45:29 < rustyaxe> journald is a cancer
2023-03-06T16:45:42 < Laurence_b> lol 2 true
2023-03-06T16:45:55 < rustyaxe> But sudo should be calling syslog() call
2023-03-06T16:45:56 < Laurence_b> the emmc eater
2023-03-06T16:45:58 < rustyaxe> to write that
2023-03-06T16:46:23 < rustyaxe> Not sure how SystemDOS does that
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2023-03-06T16:46:43 < rustyaxe> but im sure it bungles it up, in the hopes of saving you from those horrible text based log files
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2023-03-06T16:46:56 < rustyaxe> <rustyaxe> but im sure it bungles it up, in the hopes of saving you from those horrible text based log files
2023-03-06T16:47:25 < Laurence_b> I'm going to have to try to fix this before all the emmc ics are toasted :(
2023-03-06T16:47:31 < Laurence_b> only a matter of time
2023-03-06T16:48:03 < karlp> journald is fucking way better than "hurhur we just wriote to /var/log/syslog, hope you have some other plan in place"
2023-03-06T16:48:19 < rustyaxe> karlp: Programs should never be touching syslog file directly
2023-03-06T16:48:28 < rustyaxe> that defeats the whole point of syslog lol
2023-03-06T16:49:53 < rustyaxe> Laurence_b: Personally, i'd ditch the systemd infection, but if thats not an option, look into putting some tmpfs on /var/run /var/log and such. so if it crashes, those files are just lost rather than wasting write cycles constantly
2023-03-06T16:50:32 < Laurence_b> rustyaxe: my main issue is I have megabytes of logs per minute
2023-03-06T16:50:45 < karlp> sounds like a lolrence solution, throw away the logs that would give him a cahnce of actually fixing his underlying problems :)
2023-03-06T16:51:01 < Laurence_b> mainly from pam_unix but there is quite a lot of other stuff too
2023-03-06T16:51:11 < karlp> rustyaxe: programs sending to syslogd and syslogd happily just writing to a file until the disk fills up isn't any better.
2023-03-06T16:51:14 < Laurence_b> I used to finter them out but its broken for some reason
2023-03-06T16:51:22 < Laurence_b> *filter
2023-03-06T16:53:32 < Laurence_b> seems that rsyslog.conf no longer has any effect on what is logged to the journal
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2023-03-06T16:56:01 < srk> if something is spamming logs it's probably raspbian issue. there's tons of stuff not needed in it
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2023-03-06T16:57:00 < srk> when I build a minimal nixos image for pi, nothing spams logs
2023-03-06T16:59:12 < PaulFertser> I've seen raspbian breaking such a basic thing as DHCP client, no kidding!
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2023-03-06T18:20:14 < Laurence_b> wtf
2023-03-06T18:20:23 < Laurence_b> modified time is updating on a read only file
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2023-03-06T18:36:13 < Laurence_b> hmm looks like filesystem permissions are ignored
2023-03-06T18:36:50 < Laurence_b> Access: (0444/-r--r--r--)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (  101/systemd-journal)Access: 2023-03-06 16:27:12.261983785 +0000Modify: 2023-03-06 16:34:48.197771013 +0000
2023-03-06T18:36:55 < Laurence_b> that should be impossible
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2023-03-06T18:43:26 < jpa-> access mode only limits opening the file, if some program has opened it before the changes don't stop writing; and also root can ignore the modes
2023-03-06T18:48:49 < qyx> do you remember me pasting a forum link regarding banana pi r64 bricking WiFi cards because it ecposes +5 V on pin 48?
2023-03-06T18:49:47 < qyx> so, rip my LTE card
2023-03-06T18:49:51 < qyx> after 5 days
2023-03-06T18:55:44 < karlp> well, I managed to build and flash some bl702 shits, but wow, this is super layered and huge, preloaders and headers and a whole raft more shit than wch mcus
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2023-03-06T18:58:15 < karlp> bl example code seems bemixing zephyr naming and freertos naming... sounds promising.
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2023-03-06T19:41:43 < qyx> so are all those BLE chips capable of doing 802.15.4?
2023-03-06T19:46:56 < qyx> https://codebrowser.dev/linux/linux/net/bluetooth/6lowpan.c.html
2023-03-06T19:47:13 < qyx> o wat, is there 6lowpan over BLE?
2023-03-06T19:52:07 -!- [itchyjunk] [~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-06T19:53:11 < qyx> I am starting to hate contiki
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2023-03-06T20:29:51 < Steffanx-> Why so much hate lately mr qyx ?
2023-03-06T20:30:20  * rustyaxe gives qyx some fresh hateraide
2023-03-06T20:30:33 < rustyaxe> Let that anger flow into your code.
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2023-03-06T21:03:04 < Laurence_b> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/704833/how-can-journald-be-disabled
2023-03-06T21:03:06 < Laurence_b> wtf
2023-03-06T21:03:14 < Laurence_b> just nuke it
2023-03-06T21:06:42 < rustyaxe> just a symptom of the systemd cancer spreading :o
2023-03-06T21:07:38 < Laurence_b> yeah
2023-03-06T21:07:43 < Laurence_b> I literally cant kill it
2023-03-06T21:07:55  * rustyaxe hands Laurence_b devuan-arm64
2023-03-06T21:08:00 < rustyaxe> It is the way
2023-03-06T21:08:02 < Laurence_b> also it seems to ignore read only settings on files
2023-03-06T21:08:04 < Laurence_b> somehow
2023-03-06T21:08:26 < rustyaxe> Yes, it does what it wants. It even removes chattr +i from fucking /etc/resolv.conf
2023-03-06T21:08:30 < Laurence_b> rustyaxe: maybe, but we have hundreds of pis in service
2023-03-06T21:08:59 < Laurence_b> well... we do currently
2023-03-06T21:09:02 < rustyaxe> It maybe a some pain, but if you don't cure the cancer now, it will just spread to more organs every release
2023-03-06T21:09:09 < Laurence_b> soon all their emmc ics will be toast
2023-03-06T21:09:15 < rustyaxe> until your linux+systemd machine is running SystemDOS
2023-03-06T21:09:26 < rustyaxe> or is it systemdOS?
2023-03-06T21:10:03 < Laurence_b> hmm I think some of the software is using systemd features
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2023-03-06T21:37:39 < Laurence_b> hah "fixed" it
2023-03-06T21:37:51 < Laurence_b> moved journal to ram and limited to 10M
2023-03-06T21:38:53 < Laurence_b> looks like this is a systemd issue, recent systemd seems to ignore the rsyslog.conf for dropping lines
2023-03-06T21:40:15 -!- cybernaut [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Client Quit]
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2023-03-06T21:43:24 < rustyaxe> makes sense. systemd is an abomination until the unix way.
2023-03-06T21:43:29 < rustyaxe> unto
2023-03-06T21:43:36 < rustyaxe> My engrish isnt as good :O
2023-03-06T21:54:39 < Laurence_b> hmm storage has already grown to 40MB
2023-03-06T21:54:43 < Laurence_b> its not looking good
2023-03-06T21:58:38 < rustyaxe> systemdos knows best
2023-03-06T21:59:11 < specing> now you can have a trainwreck of a system in an actual train wreck
2023-03-06T21:59:14 < specing> how cool is that
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2023-03-06T22:09:19 < qyx> Steffanx-: my failure drives me into hate
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2023-03-06T22:22:16 < kaki> what failure?
2023-03-06T22:24:03 < Laurence_b> lolwut
2023-03-06T22:24:09 < Laurence_b> journald has died
2023-03-06T22:24:17 < machinehum> Finally got canned from Meta
2023-03-06T22:24:27 < machinehum> Heard it here first
2023-03-06T22:24:34 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-06T22:24:37 < Laurence_b>  "MESSAGE" : "Journal stopped",
2023-03-06T22:24:46 < benishor> machinehum: you did?
2023-03-06T22:25:20 < karlp> contiki is horrible. walk away.
2023-03-06T22:25:26 < karlp> acamdemic wank only.
2023-03-06T22:27:03 < zyp> we've got workstuff built on it
2023-03-06T22:27:35 < karlp> jpa-: kaki why hadn't you shared this gem with us yet? puts steffanx's trash to shame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHe-iZ5HSI
2023-03-06T22:28:20 < karlp> do you love their protothreads c macro worldview of everything should be runnable on this 20year old academic radio system taht no-one else can buy any more?
2023-03-06T22:28:43 < zyp> no :)
2023-03-06T22:28:58 < kaki> karlp: idc
2023-03-06T22:33:35 < machinehum> benishor: Yup
2023-03-06T22:34:28 < karlp> machinehum: well, I mean, can't even make a simple offline power uspply amirite ;)
2023-03-06T22:34:32 < karlp> (sorry, cheap shot)
2023-03-06T22:34:53 -!- martinmoene [~Thunderbi@2a02-a45a-96ba-1-6524-1901-e040-ce5.fixed6.kpn.net] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-06T22:35:10 < machinehum> Oh my DIMMER?
2023-03-06T22:35:18 < machinehum> I BUILT ONE WORKS GREAT
2023-03-06T22:35:20 < machinehum> CLIENT HAPPY
2023-03-06T22:35:56 < machinehum> Turns out building a phase cut dimmer controller with a MCU is a super simple little thing
2023-03-06T22:36:11 < zyp> heh :)
2023-03-06T22:36:12 < machinehum> < 100 lines of code and some pretty straigh forward analog circuit
2023-03-06T22:38:53 < Laurence_b> still better than avr tarduino
2023-03-06T22:38:59 < Laurence_b> I had forgotten how shit avr was
2023-03-06T22:39:13 < Laurence_b> not even any dma
2023-03-06T22:40:38 < oz4ga> I think proto threads is kewl in a bizarre way At least until every thing crashes :) 
2023-03-06T22:41:33 < zyp> one of my coworkers loves C macros
2023-03-06T22:41:46 < Laurence_b> I "like" how journald handles excess ram use, it just dies
2023-03-06T22:41:55 < oz4ga> that can prolly be medicated away :D
2023-03-06T22:41:55 < Laurence_b> at least its finally dead
2023-03-06T22:42:08 < zyp> and loves doing this thing where you define a set of macros to do one thing, include a file, undefine and redefine them to do something else and include the file again
2023-03-06T22:42:48 < zyp> e.g. the testsuite framework I worked on a few months ago uses that to define the list of testcases
2023-03-06T22:42:52 < oz4ga> Laurence_b: As rustyaxe sayed Devuan. It debian w.o. systemd cancer 
2023-03-06T22:43:23 < zyp> one invokation generates function prototypes for the tests, another generates the array that it's iterating through
2023-03-06T22:43:33 < oz4ga> lovely
2023-03-06T22:43:41 < Laurence_b> yeah, but I dont want to try to reconfigure a load of deployed hardware at this point :(
2023-03-06T22:44:08 < zyp> it works, but it's absolutely not how I'd do things :)
2023-03-06T22:45:12 < oz4ga> sounds like programming towers of Hanoi in make. It can and has been done, but should it have ??
2023-03-06T22:47:40 < qyx> karlp: I wanted to hear a supportive word or two
2023-03-06T22:47:44 < qyx> but yeah
2023-03-06T22:48:30 < qyx> it looks like every 6lowpan implementation ever done in this epoch and this galaxy is contiki based
2023-03-06T22:48:49 < zyp> really?
2023-03-06T22:49:17 < zyp> if that's the case, maybe 6lowpan isn't actually a good solution :p
2023-03-06T22:49:23 < karlp> which unfortuntaely seems to be why 6lowpan never realyl took off.
2023-03-06T22:49:24 < qyx> I haven't find anything proving this false so far
2023-03-06T22:49:36 < karlp> except they kept much of it and called it chip, and then called it matter....
2023-03-06T22:49:57 < karlp> I mean, it was so academic, it kept getting all the different theories rolled into it,
2023-03-06T22:50:00 < zyp> or thread?
2023-03-06T22:50:11 < karlp> thread is a matter transport iirc?
2023-03-06T22:50:17 < qyx> it looks very good on paper
2023-03-06T22:50:37 < zyp> thread predates matter
2023-03-06T22:51:17 < karlp> yeah, matter is chip renamed,
2023-03-06T22:51:28 < karlp> and chip had rfcs and shit before it became chip
2023-03-06T22:51:48 < zyp> so matter builds on thread and thread builds on 6lowpan
2023-03-06T22:52:11 < karlp> thread builds on 802.15.4 but "lessons learned" from 6lowpan is my interpretation
2023-03-06T22:52:15 < karlp> rather than on top directly
2023-03-06T22:52:26 < zyp> and it's all a soup of buzzwords which means nobody knows what's what anymore
2023-03-06T22:52:31 < karlp> but, I've not looked closely for a while
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2023-03-06T22:52:54 < karlp> wait til you get into all the pluggable routing and meshing algorithms :)
2023-03-06T22:52:58 < qyx_> I hate LTE too
2023-03-06T22:53:20 < karlp> you don't like 5g red vs eGBB vs mRBB blah soup there either?
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2023-03-06T22:53:40 < karlp> 3gpp has been on a steady diet of cocaine and acronyms as long as they've existed
2023-03-06T22:53:48 < qyx_> idk, LTE is what I have there
2023-03-06T22:54:07 < karlp> now, how do I stop cs/mosi/clk frrom glitching when I reset spi to start a new round of tests?
2023-03-06T22:54:36 < qyx_> wait for the transaction to complete first?
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2023-03-06T23:00:35 < zyp> karlp, why/how do you reset SPI?
2023-03-06T23:00:50 < zyp> and how are you driving CS? why does this also affect CS?
2023-03-06T23:02:04 < karlp> fixed it like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/oby54
2023-03-06T23:02:42 < karlp> it wasnt' glitching the others, that was me reading badly, it glitched miso, because it woke up the other end.
2023-03-06T23:03:21 < karlp> I wonder how many other places I've done this wrong.
2023-03-06T23:03:37 < karlp> probably normally doesn't matter, but this is reconfiguring things a lot on the fly, 
2023-03-06T23:10:31 < karlp> hah lol, I think that means I've got proper spi slave working on the ch583 now too.
2023-03-06T23:10:45 < karlp> looks like it was my glitching on first transfer that was fucking it all up on every re-test
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2023-03-06T23:34:35 < karlp> hrm, hanging on the final transfer.  not... _entirely_ correct. damnit.
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--- Day changed ti maalis 07 2023
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2023-03-07T00:29:29 < qyx_> https://github.com/openthread/openthread/blob/main/examples/platforms/utils/uart.h
2023-03-07T00:29:40 < qyx_> why do people do this
2023-03-07T00:30:12 < qyx_> is it that hard to comprehend a single global state is WRONG
2023-03-07T00:30:22 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2023-03-07T00:31:24 < qyx> it is not meant to be a maker's library, it is a commercial grade piece of code
2023-03-07T00:32:48 < karlp> aight, fixed.  now I'm exposing shortcomings in the other end test code again
2023-03-07T00:33:01 < karlp> have you not worked commercially? it's bare minimum viable that might work.
2023-03-07T00:33:29 < karlp> you can also see how long that code was being used in silos for there.
2023-03-07T00:33:54 < qyx> I wanted to say "pro" instead
2023-03-07T00:35:38 < fenugrec> does zypsnips have a copy of this mc34063-replacement and other smps IC list : https://imgur.com/a/M1S0DbI
2023-03-07T00:36:02 < karlp> it will if you file a PR :)
2023-03-07T00:36:24 < karlp> everytime I forget about mc34063 and I open it's datasheet I get reminded instantly, "no, do not use this, this is not a place of honour"
2023-03-07T00:36:55 < qyx> it is a F1 of switchers
2023-03-07T00:36:59 < karlp> I'm not sure I want to put that wild big list in thouh
2023-03-07T00:37:16 < karlp> linkswitch has like 50 parts, and some of the recommended ones are super legacy as well.
2023-03-07T00:37:32 < karlp> look at what that person says about tl494 even after they recommend it!
2023-03-07T00:37:35 < Steffanx-> I was already ashamed of dutchland's song, so this clown from Finland won't make it worse, karlp :P
2023-03-07T00:37:39 < fenugrec> I keep forgetting what the "ic that's like 34063 but less crusty" - NCP3063
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2023-03-07T00:54:15 < machinehum> lol
2023-03-07T00:54:45 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/j9zTA9F Get your 470uF caps out
2023-03-07T00:55:42 < machinehum> o
2023-03-07T00:55:43 < machinehum> 150khz
2023-03-07T00:57:48 < karlp> wooooo
2023-03-07T00:57:56 < karlp> yeah, I don't get the desire to use those sort of parts.
2023-03-07T00:58:15 < karlp> "but I must use up this pile of enormous 30khz toroid hand wound inductors I have!"
2023-03-07T00:58:28 < karlp> I mean, not using synch bucks in 2020+?
2023-03-07T00:58:32 < karlp> what's up with that?
2023-03-07T00:59:05 < karlp> the historical rationale of "control needs to be better, so silicon is more expensive" is not useful anymore.
2023-03-07T00:59:24 < karlp> and the energy savigns and bom savings of synch vs asynch... just GTFO with your async diode shit
2023-03-07T01:00:17 < karlp> let's see if I can turn my spi slave read only into read/write first go
2023-03-07T01:04:54 -!- Alexer-_ [~alexer@alexer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2023-03-07T01:05:52 < karlp> swwwweet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDnrGdpNZY
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2023-03-07T01:11:45 < karlp> hrm, I maybe overly optimistic on how good this is given that I have 8usecs interbyte spacing because of how lame and simplistic my master side is...
2023-03-07T01:20:25 < karlp> and yeah, that's true.
2023-03-07T01:20:33 < karlp> fucking spi slave, how does this work.
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2023-03-07T01:35:52 < karlp> hrm, I can do 8Mhz spi, but I need like 6usecs after the command byte. lame.
2023-03-07T01:48:53 < karlp> hrm, this other part I'm comparing to, as an asic (guessing 8051 inside) demands 4usecs, so I guess this isn't so bad?
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2023-03-07T02:02:28 < karlp> has anyone got any good solid spi slave impls for ... amnything? I never got it very well on stm32 either, and theres plenty of asics that just happily say https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XQbb0.png with no delay between command/data.
2023-03-07T02:02:49 < karlp> I can do writes that fast, back to back, but not reads, where I have to decode and start stuffing the reponse instantly.
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2023-03-07T02:57:11 < machinehum> Anyone have a decent way to detect if a flash drive has been rapidly plugged in 3 or so times?
2023-03-07T02:57:41 < machinehum> Basically I figure I can use either... some caps to keep it powered or a heater
2023-03-07T02:57:47 < machinehum> heater + eeprom
2023-03-07T02:57:59 < machinehum> like a little NTC next to a 10ohm or something
2023-03-07T02:58:06 < machinehum> Just heat it up
2023-03-07T02:58:26 < machinehum> But for 3x I would need to use eeprom
2023-03-07T03:02:29 < fenugrec> heater ? what ??
2023-03-07T03:04:59 < machinehum> To see if it was recently plugged in
2023-03-07T03:05:19 < machinehum> The drive itself it detecting this, not the PC
2023-03-07T03:05:28 < machinehum> There's a MCU on the drive
2023-03-07T03:05:45 < rustyaxe> seems lunacy
2023-03-07T03:06:07 < machinehum> Yes
2023-03-07T03:06:08 < machinehum> very
2023-03-07T03:06:54 < machinehum> But I need to know if I should destroy the drive and detecting if the drive was licked or not doesn't seem like it will work
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2023-03-07T09:02:04 < qyx> machinehum: why should replugging be a problem?
2023-03-07T09:03:26 < qyx> also, a diode from vdd to a cap to ground parallel with a bleeding resistor will probably work
2023-03-07T09:03:41 < qyx> or even without one
2023-03-07T09:04:04 < qyx> amd read it with an input pin
2023-03-07T09:04:27 < qyx> you need to isolate it when the mcu is not powered
2023-03-07T09:04:54 < qyx> with a mosfet or cmos buffer
2023-03-07T09:05:00 < qyx> or a comparator
2023-03-07T09:06:16 < qyx> hm but buffer or comparator have esd diodes on the inputs so they are gonna discharge it too
2023-03-07T09:07:18 < qyx> or connect a cap to VBAT input and check if the backup domain was reset or not
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2023-03-07T10:00:40 < jpa-> meh, jlcpcb cannot ship 3d prints in same package as PCBs
2023-03-07T10:01:00 < jpa-> => useless, i can get protos cheaper locally
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2023-03-07T10:39:34 < zyp> oh
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2023-03-07T16:53:05 < karlp> heh, this is fun, https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Displays-Options-and-Accessories/Thunderbolt-3-dock-40AC-kills-the-network/m-p/4451292
2023-03-07T16:53:29 < karlp> we've got a 40AC in the office, and _sometimes_ it will kill the network, this is the third time I've tracked it down to the dock.
2023-03-07T16:53:54 < karlp> there's no laptop even plugged in there at the moment, but if I plug the ethernet cable into the dock, the entire network goes down until I unplug it again.
2023-03-07T16:54:14 < karlp> something must be absolutely blasting packets out that interface.
2023-03-07T16:55:55 < karlp> there's a slew of forum reports on it :)
2023-03-07T16:56:09 < BrainDamage> my usbc dock does that at random, but very rarely
2023-03-07T16:56:18 < BrainDamage> like once every few months
2023-03-07T16:56:28 < BrainDamage> but when it happens, it takes down the network with it
2023-03-07T16:57:37 < rustyaxe> WormWare?
2023-03-07T16:57:49 < karlp> yeah, it's not a hardware problem then, all these forum people are like "replace it" but I think it's a general bug the controller somewhere.
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2023-03-07T17:07:20 < mawk> it does the same for me, but every hour
2023-03-07T17:10:12 < karlp> what? how widespread is this sort of carnage?
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2023-03-07T17:38:41 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-07T17:39:38 < Posterdati> please help, is it possible to run anything like netbsd on stm32f7 or h7 mcus? Thanks!
2023-03-07T17:40:21 < karlp> sure, but you'll hate it.
2023-03-07T17:40:53 < Posterdati> more than mbed?
2023-03-07T17:45:02 < jpa-> depends totally on what you want to do
2023-03-07T17:45:15 < Posterdati> ok
2023-03-07T17:45:33 < jpa-> but in general, there are not many applications where that would make sense
2023-03-07T17:46:47 < Posterdati> well
2023-03-07T17:47:25 < Posterdati> I'd like to explore the possibility
2023-03-07T17:47:29 < Posterdati> to do that
2023-03-07T17:49:00 < Posterdati> I'm currently using a Raspberry PI and TinkerBoard, but I'd like to use something more reliable than can run inside an industrial environment
2023-03-07T17:49:12 < Posterdati> Raspberry PI is basically a toy
2023-03-07T17:49:31 < Posterdati> but it is there
2023-03-07T17:51:30 < rustyaxe> Toy? lol
2023-03-07T17:51:45 < Posterdati> yes, they are
2023-03-07T17:52:01 < rustyaxe> how so?
2023-03-07T17:52:13 < Sadale> I'd recommend against using linux if reliability is critical. But it really depends on your application and you may have to use a full-ledge OS if your application is too complicated.
2023-03-07T17:52:37 < zyp> full-ledge?
2023-03-07T17:52:49 < Sadale> as opposed to bare metal.
2023-03-07T17:52:53 < zyp> that's a fun way to spell full-fledged
2023-03-07T17:53:02 < Posterdati> rustyaxe: Asus Tinkerboard is more reliable 
2023-03-07T17:53:12 < Sadale> zyp, thanks for the correction.
2023-03-07T17:53:47 < Sadale> How can you tell/prove that <insert another board here> is more reliable than raspberry pi?
2023-03-07T17:54:15 < Posterdati> Sadale: I tested them on the field
2023-03-07T17:54:17 < zyp> reliable in what sense, even
2023-03-07T17:54:22 < Posterdati> Sadale: same application
2023-03-07T17:54:38 < Posterdati> Sadale: different lifespan
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2023-03-07T17:55:17 < Posterdati> or even different behaviour in respect sdcard/spi devices
2023-03-07T17:55:33 < Sadale> That'd be strange. How many units have you tested? How did the raspberry pi fail? Which linux distro are you using for raspberry pi and asus tinkerboard?
2023-03-07T17:55:43 < rustyaxe> odd, i've worked for a company that has literally thousands of pi's (several in each store). no problems seen there.
2023-03-07T17:56:01 < Posterdati> raspberry 3b+ + raspbian (Debian 11)
2023-03-07T17:56:02 < rustyaxe> Now if you do moronic things like write logs constantly to the sd card? You'll have bad times
2023-03-07T17:56:19 < rustyaxe> but that'll apply everywhere
2023-03-07T17:57:13 < Posterdati> asus tinkerboard mali T764/2GB + debian
2023-03-07T17:57:25 < Sadale> How do you define "fail"?
2023-03-07T17:57:55 < Sadale> Is that just the SD card died or like the entire pi failed that even replacing the SD card wouldn't help?
2023-03-07T17:58:52 < Posterdati> ethernet failure after one year or so on the raspberrys
2023-03-07T17:59:07 < Sadale> hmm. Interesting.
2023-03-07T17:59:08 < Posterdati> bad regulators
2023-03-07T17:59:30 < Posterdati> the boards simply died
2023-03-07T17:59:59 < Posterdati> and random corruption of the sd cards
2023-03-07T18:00:28 < Posterdati> the tinkerboards works for about 4 years with no problems at all
2023-03-07T18:00:51 < Posterdati> no sdcard corruptions
2023-03-07T18:01:23 < Sadale> SD Card corruptions could be just the software. But I don't think I could explain the ethernet port part.
2023-03-07T18:01:37 < Sadale> yeah. Could very well be a hardware design issue
2023-03-07T18:01:50 < Posterdati> rustyaxe: no logs, only monitoring data
2023-03-07T18:02:11 < Posterdati> rustyaxe: few bytes every 15 minutes for 3 years
2023-03-07T18:02:59 < Sadale> If your program takes a lot of RAM, it could take swap space, which's backed by your SD card.
2023-03-07T18:03:17 < rustyaxe> Really shouldn't be writing anything to the sd card
2023-03-07T18:03:17 < zyp> not if you don't turn on swap
2023-03-07T18:03:39 < Posterdati> no swap at all
2023-03-07T18:03:43 < rustyaxe> why use a networked device and not network logging/data collection?
2023-03-07T18:03:46 < Posterdati> no graphics involved
2023-03-07T18:04:01 < Posterdati> only ssh and the monitoring daemon
2023-03-07T18:04:05 < Sadale> Oh. And power supply. It's known that raspberry pi can kill the SD card if the power supply isn't strong enough.
2023-03-07T18:04:21 < Sadale> (So it's safer to use their official power supply)
2023-03-07T18:04:28 < Posterdati> Sadale: I used the original wallsocket psu
2023-03-07T18:04:42 < Sadale> I see. So that's not the power supply issue
2023-03-07T18:04:47 < Posterdati> no
2023-03-07T18:05:23 < Posterdati> they were inside a sealed pvc box, placed near a power transformer (400 MVA one :) )
2023-03-07T18:07:08 < Posterdati> outside temperature swinged from -1 C to 40 C
2023-03-07T18:07:15 < Posterdati> in one year
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2023-03-07T18:26:21 < bitmask> neat vid: https://youtu.be/9X4frIQo7x0
2023-03-07T18:26:36 < Posterdati> on the other side I saw a lot of SECOP controller boards with stm32f on board. These inverters are somehow reliable with a very large amount of failures cases but the stm32... :)
2023-03-07T18:26:47 < bitmask> i knew the basics of mems but having him 3d print them is pretty cool
2023-03-07T18:26:56 < bitmask> mems accel/gyro i should say
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2023-03-07T19:50:54 < machinehum> qyx: Yeah that sounds decent
2023-03-07T19:51:12 < machinehum> I wonder what the impdance of the pins goto on the brownout
2023-03-07T19:51:26 < machinehum> ahh hense the isolation
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2023-03-07T20:19:15 < kaki> zyp: if I inherit a class to another class
2023-03-07T20:20:05 < kaki> could I set inherited members to point at seperate instance of that inherited class?
2023-03-07T20:20:37 < zyp> inherited members?
2023-03-07T20:22:32 < kaki> I think I need to have a pointer
2023-03-07T20:22:51 < kaki> instead of inheritance
2023-03-07T20:23:09 < kaki> if I have shared resource
2023-03-07T20:23:39 < specing> kaki: yeah, pointer to function
2023-03-07T20:23:55 < kaki> or a class instance
2023-03-07T20:24:18 < specing> or that, but in that case C++ should abstract that for you
2023-03-07T20:24:46 < zyp> what is it you want to do?
2023-03-07T20:25:09 < zyp> you're talking about solutions without specifying the problem
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2023-03-07T20:26:05 < specing> likely an XY problem yep
2023-03-07T20:26:23 < kaki> I have shared resource class that has typenames, functions, constants, variables
2023-03-07T20:26:38 < kaki> I want to use them as straight forward as possible in other classes
2023-03-07T20:27:08 < zyp> I don't get it
2023-03-07T20:27:27 < kaki> nvm
2023-03-07T20:28:25 < specing> kaki: if this is a global thing then you could just have a global instance of it
2023-03-07T20:28:58 < specing> if not then I guess you just store a pointer.. like  Environment* env;
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2023-03-07T21:03:25 < oz4ga> bitmask: kewl video :)
2023-03-07T21:03:34 < bitmask> i thought so :)
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2023-03-07T21:47:47 < bitmask> hmmm.. I think I made a boo boo. Havent used the elliptical in a while and just used it for 35 min straight. my legs are gonna hurt tomorrow
2023-03-07T21:56:12 < bitmask> how much is lambda
2023-03-07T21:57:07 < bitmask> wondering if I should resize the images uploaded on the front end or backend
2023-03-07T21:59:58 < bitmask> oh you get 1 million requests a month free?
2023-03-07T22:00:00 < bitmask> shiiiit
2023-03-07T22:00:03 < bitmask> thats whats up
2023-03-07T22:02:38 < zyp> hmm, there's apparently a stm32h5 now
2023-03-07T22:02:46 < zyp> cortex-m33 based
2023-03-07T22:04:04 < zyp> wonder how it differs from l5/u5
2023-03-07T22:05:54 < jpa-> the letters stand for "hard-to-find", "long leadtime" and "unavailable"
2023-03-07T22:06:03 < zyp> :D
2023-03-07T22:07:14 < Steffanx-> nos
2023-03-07T22:07:18 < Steffanx-> whops
2023-03-07T22:12:14 < qyx> sounds about right
2023-03-07T22:13:02 < qyx> today's adventures with wlcsp6: their size is not the only/main concern
2023-03-07T22:13:29 < qyx> position of the pin marker is
2023-03-07T22:16:04 < qyx> regarding those m33s, what's so awesome about them?
2023-03-07T22:16:42 < zyp> are they awesome?
2023-03-07T22:17:01 < zyp> I'm mostly interested because they represent more shit to handle from a debugger perspective
2023-03-07T22:17:40 < qyx> I am mostly not interested because they indeed have more shit to handle
2023-03-07T22:18:33 < qyx> I kinda feel like refusing the progress
2023-03-07T22:19:28 < zyp> from my perspective, the only improvement that looks obviously useful is the stack overflow checking
2023-03-07T22:19:50 < zyp> I don't see much use in the trustzone stuff for anything I do
2023-03-07T22:20:20 < zyp> I don't really do anything that needs to run secure and insecure code side by side on the same chip
2023-03-07T22:21:52 < qyx> I would like it if it was easy to configure and use
2023-03-07T22:22:08 < qyx> but tbh I haven't looked at it closely so far
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2023-03-07T22:47:54 < mawk> if I want to use usb from cubez do I need a rtos with it
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2023-03-07T22:53:40 < Steffanx-> ì heard laks usb or tinyusb are nice
2023-03-07T22:55:41 < kaki> laks
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2023-03-07T23:17:15 < kaki> it time to do my first cross referencing
2023-03-07T23:17:51  * qyx soldering a new mp1 board
2023-03-07T23:17:55 < qyx> so short so good
2023-03-07T23:17:58 < qyx> *so far no short
2023-03-07T23:18:41 < kaki> stack overflow says circular relationships make code smell
2023-03-07T23:19:27 < fenugrec> I drew a graph of a few projects I'm contemplating, and I have a circular dependency. And the whole thing is uncomfortably fractal
2023-03-07T23:19:45 < fenugrec> better put everything on the backburner
2023-03-07T23:20:39 < kaki> I will see if I can actually avoid the circular dependency
2023-03-07T23:21:02 < kaki> actually it might only require one way dependancy and not that way that I initially thought
2023-03-07T23:22:17 < kaki> it's interrupt driven and actually the resource class is higher in that hierarchy
2023-03-07T23:22:40 < kaki> I just add childs to it
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--- Day changed ke maalis 08 2023
2023-03-08T00:02:49 < kaki> fuq
2023-03-08T00:03:03 < kaki> childs are template classes
2023-03-08T00:03:16 < kaki> and the whole idea is that they have different templates
2023-03-08T00:04:04 < kaki> template parameters*
2023-03-08T00:04:14 < kaki> bet cannot get them in array
2023-03-08T00:04:17 < zyp> the fuck sort of stupid shit are you doing now
2023-03-08T00:04:31 < kaki> learning
2023-03-08T00:04:38 < kaki> I hope
2023-03-08T00:04:53 < kaki> feels like infinite time dump though
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2023-03-08T00:04:56 < Laurence_b> shocking hyperloop news
2023-03-08T00:05:06 < Laurence_b> there might be a grrrl wurking at hyperloop soon
2023-03-08T00:05:12 < kaki> zyp: tell me again about virtual classes
2023-03-08T00:05:18 < zyp> no
2023-03-08T00:05:27 < zyp> not before you tell me what you're even doing
2023-03-08T00:05:42 < zyp> I'm not helping you further down the wrong path
2023-03-08T00:05:58 < kaki> I have timer class
2023-03-08T00:06:31 < kaki> and then template class that does stuff interrupt driven
2023-03-08T00:06:49 < kaki> actually all of my classes have templates
2023-03-08T00:07:09 < kaki> so I wanted to collect childs to array in timer class
2023-03-08T00:07:13 < kaki> so it can serve them
2023-03-08T00:07:57 < kaki> but I have layered this in nested classes and all of them have templates
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2023-03-08T00:11:24 < kaki> I need something that can provide interrupt driven operations to what is de facto totally different classes
2023-03-08T00:11:51 < kaki> get them in array and stuff
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2023-03-08T00:13:13 < kaki> zyp: so virtual class right?
2023-03-08T00:14:46 < zyp> that's a problem without an entirely good solution IME
2023-03-08T00:15:12 < zyp> and yes, one potential solution is a common virtual base
2023-03-08T00:15:53 < kaki> one
2023-03-08T00:16:03 < kaki> so there must be another?
2023-03-08T00:16:44 < zyp> well, the problem is that you want to call a method of a particular object, right?
2023-03-08T00:17:27 < zyp> the defacto solution is to bind the instance to the method with std::bind and stick it into a std::function
2023-03-08T00:17:28 < kaki> actually maybe just access member variables
2023-03-08T00:17:40 < zyp> but that doesn't feel like anything I want interrupts to touch
2023-03-08T00:17:55 < zyp> I mean, I'm not sure I'd want to use that on embedded at all, even
2023-03-08T00:18:04 < kaki> okay
2023-03-08T00:18:10 < kaki> maybe call a method
2023-03-08T00:18:52 < kaki> but all of the classes need the same treatment so I could just access relevant member variables
2023-03-08T00:19:09 < kaki> but I don't know the types of the member variables
2023-03-08T00:19:18 < kaki> so method call it is
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2023-03-08T00:47:41 < qyx> so the more I work with stm32mp1, the more I am leaning towards trashing it in favor of sama5d27
2023-03-08T00:48:27 < zyp> wouldn't something arm64 be preferrable to either?
2023-03-08T00:48:33 < qyx> because 1. tooling is shit and the process of getting anything running on it is overly complicated
2023-03-08T00:49:01 < qyx> 2. sama5d27 support in u-boot/buildroot/openwrt is much better and current
2023-03-08T00:49:36 < qyx> 3. sama5d27 has on-chip DRAM, there is even a version with LPDDR2
2023-03-08T00:49:58 < qyx> actually
2023-03-08T00:50:21 < qyx> the only positive on stm32mp1 so far is FDCAN and 3x SDMMC
2023-03-08T00:50:41 < qyx> zyp: idk, I am targetting very low power (datalogging)
2023-03-08T00:50:50 < qyx> I don't need arm64 for that
2023-03-08T00:51:10 < qyx> but I would like to go under 100 mW
2023-03-08T00:51:30 < qyx> with the current board using sama5d27 SoM I am at 400 mW
2023-03-08T00:52:35 < qyx> oh and the support in u-boot/linux is half-assed and hardcoded for their specific eval boards
2023-03-08T00:53:16 < qyx> oh yes we have devicetree, but fuk that idea, do it in *.c
2023-03-08T00:54:11 < qyx> so no, changing vreg voltage or a gpio in devicetree doesn't help because nothing is using those definitions, you have to change the sources
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2023-03-08T06:30:50 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone used STM's OpenBootloader? And can this thing be compiled with makefiles or you have to use STMCubeIDE/MDK-ARM?
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2023-03-08T06:33:33 < ColdKeyboard> Or maybe a better question; is there an open-source I2C bootloader that is compact or I should write my own and optimize the code?
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2023-03-08T10:01:35 < qyx> https://grafana.com/grafana/plugins/grafana-image-renderer/
2023-03-08T10:01:38 < qyx> are they serious?
2023-03-08T10:02:05 < qyx> is the world screwed that hard in 2023 that we need to run a browser on a server with 16 GB ram minimum to render a graph?
2023-03-08T10:02:43 < qyx> it is not April 1st yet
2023-03-08T10:11:10 < rustyaxe> lol
2023-03-08T10:11:21 < rustyaxe> welcome to modern web ;(
2023-03-08T10:11:51 < rustyaxe> we run DOS in qemu in firefox :P
2023-03-08T10:12:04 < rustyaxe> to generate passwords
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2023-03-08T11:10:53 < karlp> best bit of bitmask's video is https://youtu.be/9X4frIQo7x0?t=1047 that timestamp ;)
2023-03-08T11:18:20 < karlp> I'm not sure I even understand teh use case of that grafana plugin.
2023-03-08T11:18:57 < karlp> you have grafana running somewhere, but you need to, deliver a static view of it somewhere else, repeatedly? so they built a browser to view it and save as?
2023-03-08T11:26:26 < qyx> yes it is able to send email alerts
2023-03-08T11:26:38 < qyx> but to have an accompanying graph in the alert you need that plugin
2023-03-08T11:30:59 < karlp> that does sound insane.
2023-03-08T11:31:44 < karlp> just skip the graph int he email, it includes a link to the event alreayd.  but yeah, the event emails are kinda lame, I'd like more info on what values it went to/under, and how long and things.
2023-03-08T11:32:43 < BrainDamage> you could ship the whole js and data and have it render in the email html engine
2023-03-08T11:34:23 < karlp> I suspect the problem is the alert engine was "decoupled" to the point of just not having any of that to be able to do anything with it.
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2023-03-08T13:14:26 < qyx> ok stm32mp1 hasn't smoked so far
2023-03-08T13:14:31 < qyx> it draws 36 mA at 5 V
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2023-03-08T13:42:35 < qyx> stm32programmer connects
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2023-03-08T14:21:54 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-08T14:21:57 < Posterdati> please help
2023-03-08T14:24:08 < Posterdati> I have one nucleo-stm32h723zg board, but stlink 1.6.1 is unable to connect to the device: descr:      unknown device
2023-03-08T14:24:23 < Posterdati> is this stlink version too old?
2023-03-08T14:24:46 < PaulFertser> Posterdati: I suggest current OpenOCD release.
2023-03-08T14:25:20 < Posterdati> nice
2023-03-08T14:25:36 < Posterdati> thanks
2023-03-08T14:27:58 < qyx> arm-trusted-firmware-st/build/stm32mp1/release/bl2/bl2.elf has a LOAD segment with RWX permissions
2023-03-08T14:28:03 < qyx> this is starting to bother me
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2023-03-08T14:31:05 < qyx> tf-a doesn't work with gcc12
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2023-03-08T14:41:04 < Posterdati> PaulFertser: it works!
2023-03-08T14:41:16 < Posterdati> PaulFertser: thanks for the hint
2023-03-08T14:43:41 < PaulFertser> Posterdati: I'm glad to hear :)
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2023-03-08T15:23:01 < karlp> qyx: gcc 12 shits?
2023-03-08T15:23:12 < karlp> yeah, I don't even know a good way to fix that shit yet.
2023-03-08T15:23:26 < karlp> libopencm3 spews a bunch of them too with vectors and resets and shit.
2023-03-08T15:24:08 < fenugrec> there doesn't seem to be a clean way of dealing with that, at all : https://stackoverflow.com/questions/73429929/gnu-linker-elf-has-a-load-segment-with-rwx-permissions-embedded-arm-project
2023-03-08T15:24:16 < fenugrec> been going on for almost a year. Annoying AF
2023-03-08T15:29:38 < karlp> yeah, the only projects I've seen with "solutions" have been turning off the warning.
2023-03-08T15:29:50 < karlp> security hey, I'm sure feeling safer
2023-03-08T15:30:31 < fenugrec> yes, my M0 mcu is definitely an impenetrable bastion now
2023-03-08T15:48:01 < qyx> the problem with tf-a is it fails to compile with that warning
2023-03-08T15:48:09 < qyx> I mean, one of the problems
2023-03-08T15:48:22 < karlp> what do you mean fails to compile?
2023-03-08T15:48:28 < karlp> turn off -Werror?
2023-03-08T15:49:05 < qyx> I didn't invsetigate it, it has thrown a couple of other warnings which were "okay"
2023-03-08T15:49:10 < qyx> I compiled it with gcc 10
2023-03-08T15:49:41 < qyx> but yeah probably something like that, there was nothing even with verbose output
2023-03-08T15:56:22 < qyx> I feel genuinely stupid because that's the kind of thing which should be clicky clicky in cubemx, clicky clicky, here is your tf-a, with this tool or these commands you can flash it
2023-03-08T15:56:26 < qyx> but no
2023-03-08T15:57:02 < qyx> "oh you dared to use a type of memory we don't use on our evaluation boards"
2023-03-08T15:58:22 < qyx> so half of the problem was nucleo doesn't like 1V8 io level
2023-03-08T15:58:50 < qyx> with another USB-UART bridge it works at least to the degree BL2 is loaded and (supposedly) run
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2023-03-08T16:12:44 < karlp> heh, rust from the vendors! (rust for psoc coming soon!) https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/infineon-makes-rust-available-for-its-automotive-mcu-lines/
2023-03-08T16:13:08 < ventYl> well, automotive...
2023-03-08T16:13:47 < karlp> it's ok, .unrwap is still rust, so it's still safe
2023-03-08T16:13:50 < ventYl> my guess is, that they did it, because mozilla's JS engine has some portions written in rust
2023-03-08T16:14:08 < ventYl> and automotive won't touch anything that isn't "supported"
2023-03-08T16:14:14 < ventYl> nor "qualified"
2023-03-08T16:18:01 < fenugrec> I thought the main selection criterion was "in stock" for the past 3 years : )
2023-03-08T16:18:45 < ventYl> last 3 years have already been decided back in 2016-2019
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2023-03-08T18:34:46 < mawk> I have a weird bug, I'm trying to snoop on the UART sent by my nb-iot module and received by my mcu
2023-03-08T18:35:19 < mawk> it goes NB-IoT --> TXB0102DCUT level shifter --> MCU
2023-03-08T18:36:36 < mawk> and I connected a FTDI cable on the MCU side
2023-03-08T18:36:58 < mawk> when I do that I don't receive data, and the MCU doesn't receive data anymore
2023-03-08T18:37:27 < mawk> so I thought the FTDI was fucking with the level shifter since it's a bidirectional level shifter and it does black magic to detect which is an input and which is an output
2023-03-08T18:37:47 < mawk> so I used an opamp in buffer configuration between the level shifter and my ftdi cable, but even that didn't work
2023-03-08T18:38:10 < mawk> and then I added a 100kΩ resistor in series with the FTDI RX pin and now it works
2023-03-08T18:38:18 < mawk> but I don't know why adding a resistor makes it work
2023-03-08T18:38:40 < aandrew> any magic to fiber optic CAN? I was just going to tie two regualr old transceivers together on the CANH/CANL side and then take the tx/rx to fiber optic connectors on one side and to the MCU on the other
2023-03-08T18:38:58 < BrainDamage> you're adding too much capacitance to the level shifter
2023-03-08T18:40:39 < mawk> and reducing the impact by using the resistor?
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2023-03-08T18:44:35 < mawk> the wires are not extremely long between the level shifter pin and my buffer board
2023-03-08T18:48:03 < karlp> yeah, we failed to use a txb0102 for uart, heard of other people with the same failures.
2023-03-08T18:48:38 < karlp> switched to 74avc2t245 instead.
2023-03-08T18:49:07 < karlp> if the sides werent' coming up at the same time or the right time or whatever other black magic handled the autoshift in the txb.
2023-03-08T18:55:25 < BrainDamage> mawk: yes, because the resistor gets the deltaV when the parasitic capacitance is discharged, so you're not dropping the line low
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2023-03-08T19:20:40 < qyx> mawk: I am using TXS exclusively because people on the interwebs fail with TXB
2023-03-08T19:21:51 < zyp> 74avc2t245 is great
2023-03-08T19:22:06 < qyx> aandrew: probably not that easy, TI has a appnote for a "can repeater" with some almighty logic and delay lines
2023-03-08T19:22:36 < aandrew> yes there is a little delay to lock out the rx when tx happens and vice-versa
2023-03-08T19:22:47 < aandrew> but still very straightforward for fixed can rates
2023-03-08T19:23:24 < qyx> hm but yeah I guess a SPDIF POF transceivers could work
2023-03-08T19:23:54 < qyx> idk if POF is what you call a fiber optic
2023-03-08T19:24:42  * qyx @ stm32mp1
2023-03-08T19:25:21 < qyx> I am mildly considering using openocd to flash the external quadspi NOR flash
2023-03-08T19:26:22 < qyx> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/support/learning/stm32-education/stm32-moocs/external_QSPI_loader.html
2023-03-08T19:26:43 < qyx> why did I think this should be distributed withe th CUbe
2023-03-08T19:29:14 < qyx> that's the thing Microchip/Atmel did right with sam-ba, there is no ambiguity, you just select "flash external QSPI on QSPI2, chip select 1, done, #profit"
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2023-03-08T19:48:21 < qyx> sorry about that but stm32cube programmer is a piece of sh*t
2023-03-08T19:49:46 < qyx> /usr/share/openocd/scripts//interface/stlink-dap.cfg:12: Error: invalid command name "st-link"
2023-03-08T19:49:54 < qyx> PaulFertser: any idea? too old?
2023-03-08T19:50:01 < qyx> 0.11.0-rc2
2023-03-08T19:51:35 < PaulFertser> qyx: you just shouldn't mix binaries and configs from different versions
2023-03-08T19:51:50 < PaulFertser> qyx: also, 0.12.0 was released and it's already in Debian repos etc.
2023-03-08T19:52:50 < qyx> hm, did I mix it?
2023-03-08T19:53:28 < qyx> cloning the current master now
2023-03-08T19:53:33 < PaulFertser> qyx: that would be my guess, as I'd expect no upstream config to have invalid commands
2023-03-08T19:55:09 < PaulFertser> qyx: what distro are you using? All major ones have 0.12.0 in the repos.
2023-03-08T19:56:46 < qyx> debian 11.1
2023-03-08T19:56:55 < qyx> openocd is already the newest version (0.11.0~rc2-1).
2023-03-08T20:02:06 < qyx> aha
2023-03-08T20:02:10 < qyx> I need to use stlink-dap.cfg
2023-03-08T20:02:40 < qyx> I tried to use openocd -s /usr/share/openocd/scripts/ -f interface/stlink.cfg -f board/stm32mp15x_dk2.cfg
2023-03-08T20:02:51 < qyx> which is wrong, because board/stm32mp15x_dk2.cfg includes stlink-dap instead of stlink
2023-03-08T20:03:09 < qyx> now the board is recognised
2023-03-08T20:05:30 < PaulFertser> qyx: it's in testing, not stable.
2023-03-08T20:05:49 < PaulFertser> You do not need "-s /usr/share/openocd/scripts/", it's implied.
2023-03-08T20:06:10 < qyx> I have a gdb session now \o/
2023-03-08T20:06:13 < qyx> PaulFertser: thanks for the hints
2023-03-08T20:06:24 < PaulFertser> qyx: when the board includes an adapter then you do not need to source adapter config at all.
2023-03-08T20:07:50 < qyx> yeah I removed that
2023-03-08T20:08:12 < qyx> now the question is how to load that trusted thing
2023-03-08T20:08:29 < qyx> I remember microchip didn't like loading that using jtag
2023-03-08T20:10:02 < qyx> Program received signal SIGINT, Interrupt.
2023-03-08T20:10:02 < qyx> 0x2ffe9890 in plat_panic_handler ()
2023-03-08T20:10:07 < qyx> sounds like it is working
2023-03-08T20:10:08 < qyx> kind of
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2023-03-08T22:15:08 < Posterdati> hi
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2023-03-08T23:06:24 < qyx> and why the hell is BL1 configuring UART output as opendrain without a pullup
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2023-03-08T23:24:06 < fenugrec> BYOpullup
2023-03-08T23:33:34 < qyx> it looks like it panics because it cannot determine, if the mp1 is in the closed state
2023-03-08T23:33:45 < qyx> and it does so by reading OTP which fails for some reason
--- Day changed to maalis 09 2023
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2023-03-09T00:59:19 < qyx> another hardcoded parts, PMIC init in TF-A
2023-03-09T01:00:07 < qyx> frogeaters, pls if there is none PMIC defined in the DTS, leave it as it is and don't panic
2023-03-09T01:00:19 < qyx> don't fucking panic because there is no PMIC
2023-03-09T01:01:31 < qyx> who did I hurt to encounter such things repeatedly
2023-03-09T01:01:44 < qyx> I haven't drown a single kitty in my life
2023-03-09T01:01:45 < Steffanx-> Mostly yourself
2023-03-09T01:06:57 < qyx> so far it looks like that everything touching the BSEC fails
2023-03-09T01:07:04 < qyx> OTP read, monotonic counters, etc.
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2023-03-09T01:46:29 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/1kCXT
2023-03-09T01:46:44 < qyx> so now it doesn't like the devicetree
2023-03-09T02:01:42 < qyx> what the hell, no, you cannot add a regulator to devicetree
2023-03-09T02:02:02 < qyx> because it is hardcoded in the sources there are TWO regulators only
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2023-03-09T02:32:39 < qyx> ok works, now I need to put that damned thing to QSPI
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2023-03-09T05:00:08 < fenugrec> damn, I had forgotten how absolutely horrible linux behaves when it's running out of memory. Why of course, swap everything to/from HDD ! Block all user interaction ! can't ctrl-c, kbd/mouse unresponsive, HDD just agonising
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2023-03-09T05:05:09 < fenugrec> luckily past-me already enabled enabled /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq . FFS
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2023-03-09T06:43:54 < jpa-> fenugrec: yeah, i don't understand why it freezes everything
2023-03-09T06:45:11 < jpa-> for me it happens when swap starts to run out, as long as there is enough swap and the programs currently active fit in ram, everything seems to work ok
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2023-03-09T10:17:35 < Posterdati> hi
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2023-03-09T11:41:27 < qyx> I just run out of nerves with tf-a, a piece of alpha level crap
2023-03-09T11:45:32 < karlp> but... it has trusted in the name!
2023-03-09T11:45:36 < karlp> don't you feel secure?
2023-03-09T11:45:47 < karlp> cortex-a8 _intrinsically_ makes you secure!
2023-03-09T11:45:53 < karlp> be thankful for the magic blob!
2023-03-09T12:23:27 < Posterdati> is there anyone using mbed os?
2023-03-09T12:23:48 < jpa-> yes, and i hate it
2023-03-09T12:24:14 < Posterdati> jpa-: I always used baremetal...
2023-03-09T12:25:06 < Posterdati> jpa-: anyway I cannot compile anything on mbed, seems that debian 11 cmake doesn't fit...
2023-03-09T12:27:16 < Posterdati> after passing 2 hours to make blinky program compile using that foolish-phytonish-cmake environment I had the fine error about the wrong cmake
2023-03-09T12:27:49 < jpa-> though honestly the os probably isn't as bad as the rp2040 port and its platformio packaging
2023-03-09T12:29:01 < Posterdati> jpa-: did you ever use free rtos?
2023-03-09T12:31:03 < jpa-> xYes
2023-03-09T12:31:45 < Posterdati> better?
2023-03-09T12:32:25 < jpa-> freertos is fine for what it does, which is not much
2023-03-09T12:32:36 < jpa-> mbed tries to do more
2023-03-09T12:32:56 < Posterdati> well mbed is very conbfusing
2023-03-09T12:33:21 < Posterdati> and not much linux/bsd friendly
2023-03-09T12:35:32 < jpa-> dunno about that, build works fine with platformio for me, debugging not that well (symbols missing)
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2023-03-09T12:54:37 < karlp> qyx: you suffer from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum
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2023-03-09T13:33:02 < karlp> so, we get an stm32h5, which is... no different from a u5? and we get a stm32wba, which is u5 based instead of l4 based, and is btle only, instead of multiprotocol, was there anything else new in this new updates from ST?
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2023-03-09T14:00:32 < Steffanx-> But NEW AND AFFORDABLE 
2023-03-09T14:05:28 < karlp> well, we'll see...
2023-03-09T14:08:19 < qyx> will it run lunex
2023-03-09T14:18:44 < jpa-> affordable, available, pick one
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2023-03-09T14:21:52 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFqttTrUWIAA775i.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2023-03-09T14:25:20 < kaki> not found
2023-03-09T14:25:53 < specing> Laurence_b: rofl
2023-03-09T14:26:14 < specing> kaki: keep hitting F5, Twitter messed their API up
2023-03-09T14:41:13 < Steffanx-> Ok that in one was funny Laurence_b  
2023-03-09T14:42:38 < qyx> so, does anyone have an imx6 develboard,
2023-03-09T14:50:51 < Steffanx-> -in
2023-03-09T14:51:35 < karlp> not me sorry.
2023-03-09T14:52:04 < Steffanx-> There must be one somewhere here in the building, yes.
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2023-03-09T19:17:04 < fenugrec> should I register a domain name for 5 or 10 years... same $/year
2023-03-09T19:17:32 < fenugrec> nice stm232.com is available
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2023-03-09T19:28:41 < specing> fenugrec: 5. inflation and tech progress should make registrations cheaper in 5 years
2023-03-09T19:43:16 < fenugrec> interesting, I see it the other way - scarcity and speculation is only going to increase
2023-03-09T19:47:12 < aandrew> qyx: actually I do
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2023-03-09T20:51:16 < specing> fenugrec: how would scarcity apply here, on a domain you already own?
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2023-03-09T21:06:53 < fenugrec> I don't already own it
2023-03-09T21:07:08 < specing> fenugrec: but you would in 5 years
2023-03-09T21:07:49 < fenugrec> yes, but a provider in 5 years, with increased scarcity, could easier say "get bent, everybody wants a non-shit domain name, price is 10x now)
2023-03-09T21:11:48 < specing> can always transfer domain to a better provider ig
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2023-03-09T22:36:43 < jpa-> i think .com registration has been about 10USD/year for two decades now
2023-03-09T22:38:58 < jpa-> https://www.domainnameapi.com/blog/verisign-to-to-increase-com-prices-in-september   apparently increasing 7% per year now
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2023-03-10T02:28:37 < machinehum> So what's the deal with lcsc
2023-03-10T02:28:55 < machinehum> Are they counterfeit components?
2023-03-10T02:38:48 < mawk> I don't think so, why?
2023-03-10T02:38:57 < machinehum> They're cheap AF
2023-03-10T02:40:00 < machinehum> With a DC/DC controller there's no current rating typically right? Like if there's an application cct. for 7A you can just change around the fets, inductors and caps to up the current output
2023-03-10T02:40:53 < specing> machinehum: you mean others are expensive AF? :}
2023-03-10T02:41:06 < machinehum> heh
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2023-03-10T03:54:02 < machinehum> Anyone have a 12V/10A out, 10-20Vin buck controller?
2023-03-10T03:54:15 < machinehum> Like one that's really popular, all the cool kids use
2023-03-10T03:54:19 < machinehum> Lots of stock
2023-03-10T03:54:58 < machinehum> Might just find a LT app note from the 90's on how to design one with opamps and shit
2023-03-10T03:55:04 < machinehum> Fuck this chip shortage
2023-03-10T03:55:20 < mawk> you can make one with a mcu if you want
2023-03-10T03:55:35 < mawk> a st8
2023-03-10T03:56:06 < machinehum> Do people actually do that?
2023-03-10T03:56:25 < machinehum> I guess just... read the output... PID...? PWM a fet?
2023-03-10T03:56:33 < machinehum> Nobody does that do they?
2023-03-10T03:58:07 < mawk> probably not
2023-03-10T03:58:09 < mawk> but you can
2023-03-10T03:58:13 < machinehum> lol
2023-03-10T03:58:26 < machinehum> You got me excited
2023-03-10T03:58:43 < machinehum> "Yeah it's way better just use a really common MCU, avoid all the chip shortable bullshit"
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2023-03-10T07:36:02 < jpa-> machinehum: 10V in sounds like you want buck-boost and not just buxk
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2023-03-10T07:38:03 < jpa-> buck is pretty easy to do even with mcu, because it is self-regulating to an extent.. boost is more annoying and you usually need a current sensor that can interrupt the pwm cycle
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2023-03-10T09:02:18 < qyx> machinehum: there are many in that range as it is the realm of notebook power supplies
2023-03-10T09:02:47 < qyx> just search mouser or other searchable eshop
2023-03-10T09:13:06 < qyx> but yeah, buck boost
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2023-03-10T11:35:21 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-10T11:35:23 < Posterdati> please help
2023-03-10T11:36:16 < Posterdati> I have a problem with stm32f767zi rtc, I enabled clock, write 0xca 0x53, but it won't change INITF to 1 after programmed INIT to 1 in RTC_ISPR
2023-03-10T11:36:34 < Posterdati> I'm using LSE oscillator (nucleo-767zi board)
2023-03-10T11:36:39 < Posterdati> thanks for help
2023-03-10T11:38:31 < zyp> you might need to hit some SYSCFG registers to enable RTC access
2023-03-10T11:39:10 < zyp> not sure about f7 in particular, but the backup domain is usually protected so you can't fuck it up inadvertently
2023-03-10T11:39:32 < qyx> yes unlock backup domain with something_DBP
2023-03-10T11:40:02 < qyx> also writing of those two bytes must be specific (there is some clock-cycles-in-between requirement)
2023-03-10T11:40:09 < qyx> just copy an example code
2023-03-10T11:56:26 < qyx> some.
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2023-03-10T12:50:03 < Posterdati> fixed
2023-03-10T12:50:10 < Posterdati> I forgot to enable the LSE clock
2023-03-10T12:50:17 < Posterdati> thanks for help
2023-03-10T12:52:11 < Posterdati> :)
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2023-03-10T14:22:51 < Laurence_b> raspberrypi systemd[1]: Failed to start User Manager for UID 1000.
2023-03-10T14:22:55 < Laurence_b> Rpi intensifies...
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2023-03-10T14:45:49 < jpa-> so hmm, if i have opamp configured as inverting buffer with signal gain 0.05x (resulting noise gain 1.05x) using a compensated capacitor + resistor divider, what can i expect?  1) stable, bandwidth significantly less than 1:20 divider + non-inverting amp    2) stable, bandwidth about the same as divider + non-inverting amp    3) unstable
2023-03-10T14:46:37 < jpa-> whether inverting attenuator is unstable or not is a frequent topic of debate online, but i think it should be stable as long as the feedback impedance is not too large (which it shouldn't be thanks to the capacitors)
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2023-03-10T14:54:04 < karlp> TIL about nickel zinc batteries...
2023-03-10T14:56:01 < jpa-> nizn has pretty high self discharge IIRC
2023-03-10T14:56:51 < jpa-> the AA-sized li-ion battery thingies are probably more practical
2023-03-10T14:57:22 < karlp> well, it needs a different charger too,
2023-03-10T14:57:40 < karlp> and I've only got one or two toys that don't really like nimh, and they can just get swapped more often.
2023-03-10T15:09:38 < qyx> is that a coincidence, I am just checking energizer L91
2023-03-10T15:10:40 < jpa-> i've considered switching my AA NiMHs to L91 or similar
2023-03-10T15:11:14 < jpa-> err not L91
2023-03-10T15:11:19 < jpa-> that's non-rechargeable
2023-03-10T15:11:49 < karlp> yeah, I was just looking up what l91 was and wondering what I was doing wrong....
2023-03-10T15:14:13 < qyx> oh you can easily made it rechargeable
2023-03-10T15:14:21 < qyx> like Saft's LiSOCl2
2023-03-10T15:14:50 < jpa-> https://www.amazon.com/Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery-Capacity-Constant/dp/B08C7SQTMW   i've been pondering something like these
2023-03-10T15:14:55 < qyx> recently I did a little bridge with a 0R resistor from a USB VBUS to VBAT which allowed me to power the board without the battery
2023-03-10T15:15:26 < qyx> so, then I used the board *with* the battery and then connected it to USB to check some logs
2023-03-10T15:15:34 < qyx> I found out after a hour or so
2023-03-10T15:16:13 < zyp> heh
2023-03-10T15:16:37 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, if I had more toys senstive to the 1.2v nimh I'd probably look at that, but I've got 20 or so nimh around, not really feeling like it's a sensible idea to replace them all.
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2023-03-10T16:02:20 < qyx> what eshop for network gear do you use in .eu?
2023-03-10T16:05:22 < fenugrec> jpa-, cool link re .com prices. Amplifying with gain < 1 : gut feeling is "will depend on opamp, but I'd be worried about phase margin". Should be straightforward to simulate
2023-03-10T16:06:37 < jpa-> yeah, if only i trusted the simulator.. but I guess I should try simulating in any case
2023-03-10T16:07:00 < jpa-> i'm having trouble figuring out what would cause phase delay in a compensated divider
2023-03-10T16:07:24 < fenugrec> your divider may not add delay, but you're changing your loop gain a lot
2023-03-10T16:07:52 < fenugrec> simulator should be ok to illustrate the trend, as long as the opamp model has roughly the right open-loop gain+phase response
2023-03-10T16:08:10 < jpa-> am i? with the 1:20 divider ratio, the loop gain is almost same as unity gain follower
2023-03-10T16:08:54 < jpa-> in my past experience, parasitic capacitances seem to play a large part in circuits like this
2023-03-10T16:09:19 < jpa-> having ground plane at 0.1 mm vs. 1mm distance made a huge difference in response
2023-03-10T16:09:55 < jpa-> i can stick fake capacitors in simulator but i don't have a fancy enough simulator to take PCB layout and simulate that
2023-03-10T16:14:53 < fenugrec> eh... ran a quick sim, it's not having as much effect as I thought. 0db crossover does change but not tons. Still around 52deg though so maybe it wouldn't take much parasic stuff to push the response closer to 0
2023-03-10T16:17:12 < jpa-> yeah, parasitic capacitance is usually what can make the response of a non-inverting buffer a bit wonky.. like in datasheet curves https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/opa355_response.png
2023-03-10T16:17:55 < jpa-> but i think if i trim the compensated divider for flattest response, it should cancel out most of the negative input node capacitance
2023-03-10T16:18:01 < fenugrec> https://filebin.net/k5c7kvm14hfcv0hf/inv_gain.png ,not entirely sure my probing is correct there though
2023-03-10T16:19:12 < fenugrec> ok that's a fast opamp
2023-03-10T16:19:15 < jpa-> interesting, in what order are the colors? is the leftmost line Rq = 500ohm or Rq=20kohm?
2023-03-10T16:20:02 < fenugrec> lowset (e.g. best phase margin) is 20k; top two blue+green nearly overlapping is 500r and 1k
2023-03-10T16:20:30 < jpa-> makes sense
2023-03-10T16:21:51 < fenugrec> you could also probably just add a massive low frequency pole with a cap between out and in- , just rolloff the response before it gets into trouble : )
2023-03-10T16:22:20 < jpa-> yeah, always possible to trade bandwidth for stability, but as you may guess by the choice of opamp, i'm interested in high bandwidth :)
2023-03-10T16:22:31 < fenugrec> I kindof had a feeling yes
2023-03-10T16:23:26 < fenugrec> and an actual measurement of loop gain is going to be super hard... transformer injection not trivial (unless maybe with an ethernet pulse magnetics ?), opamp injection hardly better...
2023-03-10T16:23:32 < jpa-> previously i have used non-inverting follower and had a 1pF or so feedback cap to make the response flatter, but now i'm planning to use inverting configuration to avoid input voltage range issues
2023-03-10T16:24:38 < jpa-> i'm going to settle for measuring the closed-loop response, because i want it to be quite flat, even a 20° phase margin will probably give unacceptably high peaking
2023-03-10T16:24:54 < fenugrec> fair
2023-03-10T16:24:57 < fenugrec> what are you opamping
2023-03-10T16:25:19 < jpa-> playing around with making a differential probe (yet again)
2023-03-10T16:25:32 < fenugrec> with an opamp as frontend, ok interesting
2023-03-10T16:25:44 < jpa-> basically an instrumentation amplifier
2023-03-10T16:26:26 < jpa-> https://hackaday.io/project/181065-modular-differential-probe   a few years ago i did this with plans to sell, then OPA659 disappeared from world
2023-03-10T16:26:47 < fenugrec> didnt azonenberg have a design too
2023-03-10T16:26:53 < jpa-> now i decided no point waiting for it to make a comeback, redesign with different chips and some new ideas & some simplification
2023-03-10T16:27:07 < jpa-> they did, though it was GHz range stuff 
2023-03-10T16:27:15 < fenugrec> ok
2023-03-10T16:29:56 < fenugrec> TIL (well YesterdayILearned) input protection diodes, because of their non-linear capacitance-vs-reverse voltage characterstic, will produce measurable THD; can be a problem for probing audio stuff where < 0.1%THD can be desirable
2023-03-10T16:30:27 < jpa-> yeah, that's yet another reason why inverting configuration (or fully differential amp) is preferrable
2023-03-10T16:30:52 < jpa-> https://www.analog.com/en/products/adl5569.html   this is the chip azonenberg is using
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2023-03-10T16:31:18 < fenugrec> 'adl5569' number looks suspiciously like 'opa659'
2023-03-10T16:31:46 < jpa-> heh, not really, one being analog devices and one being TI ;)
2023-03-10T16:32:16 < fenugrec> I know, not this case but sometimes they do have similar suffixes where LT/Analog added a '1' in front or somethign
2023-03-10T16:32:27 < jpa-> true
2023-03-10T16:34:32 < jpa-> TI numbering is also funny, OPA355,356 are sister models with only difference being enable pin, and OPA354,357 are too.. i guess they just take the next available number instead of thinking ahead
2023-03-10T16:34:34 < fenugrec> well, diff probe means you want good CMRR at high freqs, that's out of my league... good luck, let us know when you have protos / measurements
2023-03-10T16:35:22 < fenugrec> yea at least they're not numbering parts like TE or wurth... "204-12984-2901 and it's very similar alternative 66-8843-12343"
2023-03-10T16:35:32 < fenugrec> *its
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2023-03-10T18:03:20 < machinehum> jpa-: qyx It's a 12V UPS, 12V in, 12V out. Probably 4c 18650 stack (so like 12.8V to 16.8V), so boost to charge the cells and buck to step them down
2023-03-10T18:03:46 < machinehum> Or I wonder if you could somehow use one supply...
2023-03-10T18:04:28 < machinehum> Because you never charge or discharge at the same time 
2023-03-10T18:04:33 < machinehum> and*
2023-03-10T18:05:35 < machinehum> Honestly looking through the wasteland of PMICs... I really just want to use a RP2040
2023-03-10T18:05:53 < qyx> machinehum: BQxxxx buck NVDC charger to 3C, boost to 12 V
2023-03-10T18:06:17 < qyx> boost chargers are not common
2023-03-10T18:06:42 < machinehum> Yeah I was thinking about that
2023-03-10T18:06:45 < qyx> on the other hand BQx chargers are super common
2023-03-10T18:06:51 < machinehum> I could also get away with a linear charger
2023-03-10T18:06:56 < machinehum> Doesn't need to be fast
2023-03-10T18:07:42 < machinehum> Is this MCU idea insane?
2023-03-10T18:07:54 < qyx> if you want to be cool, STM32G4 + mosfet power stages
2023-03-10T18:08:00 < qyx> not that much
2023-03-10T18:08:06 < qyx> but with RM2040 is
2023-03-10T18:08:19 < machinehum> 4.2*3 is 12.6V :<
2023-03-10T18:08:34 < machinehum> Would only be able to charge the cells to 4V
2023-03-10T18:09:24 < qyx> I did it with a single 18650 (6P actually) and a 5 V bus
2023-03-10T18:10:36 < qyx> basically you set a fixed PWM of your buck or boost depending on the battery and VBUS voltage
2023-03-10T18:10:48 < qyx> of yourse you adapt it periodically using a PID
2023-03-10T18:11:14 < qyx> and when the power supply collapses, the power just goes in the other direction
2023-03-10T18:11:17 < qyx> from batteries to VBUS
2023-03-10T18:11:44 < qyx> so you only need a single ideal diode to be safe (in the power input to prevent backfeeding the power supply)
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2023-03-10T18:11:54 < qyx> or not even that if you feel adventurous
2023-03-10T18:12:58 < qyx> the only thing you need is to have VBAT>VBUS or VBUS>VBAT all the time
2023-03-10T18:13:11 < qyx> otherwise you need to do 4-quadrant conversion
2023-03-10T18:13:47 < jpa-> fixed duty cycle boost is a bit risky in my opinion, if the load takes more current than expected the inductor can reach saturation and current shoots up
2023-03-10T18:14:02 < jpa-> i would plan to have a current limit comparator for terminating the cycle
2023-03-10T18:14:14 < machinehum> Yeah I would do that
2023-03-10T18:14:17 < qyx> yeah that's what G4 has
2023-03-10T18:14:21 < machinehum> Current sampling resistor
2023-03-10T18:14:28 < qyx> and RP2040 doesn't
2023-03-10T18:14:28 < machinehum> Comparitor
2023-03-10T18:14:30 < machinehum> Interrupt
2023-03-10T18:14:37 < machinehum> G4 has what sorry?
2023-03-10T18:14:38 < qyx> it is all built in
2023-03-10T18:14:59 < machinehum> "current limit comparator"?
2023-03-10T18:15:03 < qyx> it has comparators directly routed to timer triggers and can (among other things) break the current PWM cycle
2023-03-10T18:15:08 < jpa-> non-synchronous boost also does not have a way to protect against load short-circuit, so if you drive it from battery you need to plan for that separately
2023-03-10T18:15:11 < qyx> without interrupts
2023-03-10T18:15:34 < machinehum> qyx: Interesting
2023-03-10T18:15:37 < machinehum> Can you buy them?
2023-03-10T18:15:44 < machinehum> I guess I can search
2023-03-10T18:15:51 < qyx> I would do it with VBAT>VBUS, boosting to charge batteries
2023-03-10T18:15:58 < qyx> and bucking to discharge
2023-03-10T18:16:41 < qyx> because the batteries will hold the voltage steady and you can deterministically regulate the charge current
2023-03-10T18:16:43 < jpa-> yeah, that makes more sense to me, though still needs a way to disconnect DC input from batteries on overcurrent/overvoltage
2023-03-10T18:17:35 < machinehum> My issue with the G4 is it seems to be 10-20$ and only like 15k of them on digikey
2023-03-10T18:17:47 < qyx> G431 is 5$
2023-03-10T18:17:56 < machinehum> Whilst rp2040 is 1.5$ and there are 105k of them
2023-03-10T18:17:57 < jpa-> how many devices are you planning to build?
2023-03-10T18:18:07 < machinehum> Thousands
2023-03-10T18:18:24 < qyx> oh a commercial device?
2023-03-10T18:18:25 < jpa-> rp2040 + external analog comparator can do it fine
2023-03-10T18:18:32 < machinehum> Yeah
2023-03-10T18:18:41 < machinehum> It's a client that wants to make an open source UPS
2023-03-10T18:18:44 < machinehum> 12V UPS
2023-03-10T18:18:48 < qyx> f*ck it, LM317 to charge, MC34063 to discharge and #yolo
2023-03-10T18:19:16 < qyx> commercial and arduino opensource style != industrial and cool
2023-03-10T18:21:50 < machinehum> MC34063 is quite a nice little PMIC
2023-03-10T18:21:56 < machinehum> But I need 10A output
2023-03-10T18:23:07 < qyx> tl494 then
2023-03-10T18:23:18 < qyx> sorry, joke
2023-03-10T18:24:34 < machinehum> I see your humor
2023-03-10T18:24:44 < machinehum> These PMICs are old as fuck arnt they?
2023-03-10T18:25:18 < qyx> yeah tl494 was used on AT/ATX power supplies from around 2020 :)
2023-03-10T18:25:18 < machinehum> I see they all have options to come in DIP packages, and suggest using old AF TIP darlington transistors
2023-03-10T18:25:23 < specing> machinehum: sounds interesting. Is the 12V battery voltage or outlet voltage?
2023-03-10T18:25:49 < machinehum> qyx: lol really?
2023-03-10T18:26:00 < qyx> but MC34063 is still widely used in current SOHO routers/switches
2023-03-10T18:26:12 < machinehum> I mean there is something to be said about some part that everyone uses
2023-03-10T18:26:22 < machinehum> Lots of them available
2023-03-10T18:26:24 < qyx> yeah and even at that time it ws already old
2023-03-10T18:26:29 < qyx> TI says 1983, revised 2022
2023-03-10T18:26:31 < machinehum> Smash down a working cct
2023-03-10T18:26:37 < machinehum> shit ahahha
2023-03-10T18:26:57 < machinehum> I'm going to use all DIP components and be confused when the board house says they can't wave solder the boards
2023-03-10T18:27:08 < machinehum> specing: What you mean?
2023-03-10T18:27:30 < machinehum> The device will have to jacks, input and output, both 12V
2023-03-10T18:27:55 < machinehum> I was going to use 4c but then qyx kindly reminded me that was dumb so now 3c
2023-03-10T18:27:58 < machinehum> Thanks #stm32
2023-03-10T18:28:17 < jpa-> i thought we were back to 4c
2023-03-10T18:28:29 < jpa-> "< qyx> I would do it with VBAT>VBUS, boosting to charge batteries"
2023-03-10T18:28:42 < qyx> yeah when doing it in software
2023-03-10T18:28:54 < qyx> but for a discrete solution buck chargers are more common
2023-03-10T18:29:43 < qyx> actually I don't remmeber seeing a boost chargers except SPV1040/1050 or some expensive LT controllers for lead acid
2023-03-10T18:29:56 < qyx> which were 4Q actually
2023-03-10T18:31:14 < machinehum> Oh are we
2023-03-10T18:32:03 < jpa-> also if you are going software way and don't need to provide output while charging, it is entirely reasonable to have a single half-bridge and inductor and use it bidirectionally
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2023-03-10T18:38:00 < specing> machinehum: ahh, I thought it was a lead acid ups for 220V
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2023-03-10T18:44:53 < machinehum> Nah
2023-03-10T18:44:55 < machinehum> lipo
2023-03-10T18:52:58 < machinehum> I wonder if Zephyr supports both cores on rp2040 yet
2023-03-10T18:54:01 < fenugrec> you're considering a software-based SMPS on an *mcu* to avoid concerns about PMIC availability ? isn't that... backwards
2023-03-10T18:54:14 < machinehum> Maybe
2023-03-10T18:54:15 < machinehum> Go on
2023-03-10T18:54:38 < jpa-> doesn't seem backwards to me
2023-03-10T18:54:58 < jpa-> because the PMIC needs are quite specific and there are not that many chips that would be a good fit
2023-03-10T18:56:11 < machinehum> There's also some sequencing required
2023-03-10T18:56:15 < fenugrec> true, but your supply of mcus can equally vanish overnight and you'll be left having to redesign at least a board. Granted, your software may be able to be ported to a different mcu
2023-03-10T18:56:18 < machinehum> Which would be nice to do in software
2023-03-10T18:56:59 < machinehum> There are risks
2023-03-10T18:57:12 < machinehum> Honestly PMIC supply is the saddest fucking thing right now
2023-03-10T18:57:25 < machinehum> And I've gotten screwed recently
2023-03-10T18:57:29 < machinehum> With a TI supply
2023-03-10T18:57:31 < jpa-> yeah, and RP2040 is pretty much the best availability of any reasonably good microcontroller
2023-03-10T18:57:44 < machinehum> However RP2040 has been like 100k on digi for years now
2023-03-10T18:57:50 < fenugrec> almost every stm32 has at least pwm timers and one comparator, but... who does this ? can't remember seeing this very often in real devices
2023-03-10T18:58:04 < machinehum> This is my main question
2023-03-10T18:58:18 < machinehum> Why don't people do it
2023-03-10T18:58:31 < machinehum> an MCU is lower cost than a lot of these LT PMICs
2023-03-10T18:58:42 < jpa-> ST even has appnotes on it, e.g. AN4449
2023-03-10T18:59:02 < fenugrec> well your fw needs to be damn reliable, but if it's *only* doing that, surely it's no worse than any other motor-driving application
2023-03-10T18:59:09 < jpa-> MCU is lower cost, but you'll need a gate driver and a FET and usually a high-side current sensing chip
2023-03-10T18:59:28 < machinehum> fenugrec: RP2040 has two cores
2023-03-10T18:59:30 < fenugrec> LT PMICs (and even TI) are stupidly expensive low-volume
2023-03-10T18:59:33 < machinehum> Which is... pretty ideal
2023-03-10T18:59:45 < jpa-> you'll just fuse it, SMPS FETs break into short circuit all the time so you can't just assume reliability
2023-03-10T19:00:15 < machinehum> Could one switch at 2Mhz?
2023-03-10T19:00:26 < fenugrec> why high-side current sense ? boost conv can have a lowside Nchan
2023-03-10T19:00:30 < fenugrec> or are we back with a buck
2023-03-10T19:00:35 < jpa-> needs both
2023-03-10T19:00:49 < fenugrec> oh you need to sense I_peak
2023-03-10T19:01:00 < machinehum> Boost up to battaries, and a little constant current opamp cct. charging
2023-03-10T19:01:10 < machinehum> Buck down
2023-03-10T19:01:12 < machinehum> I think
2023-03-10T19:01:25 < machinehum> Charge time can be hours
2023-03-10T19:02:13 < jpa-> synchronous buck is trivial at those voltages
2023-03-10T19:02:54 < jpa-> so if you just pick off-the-shelf 1A boost & separate charge chip, that would be quite easy
2023-03-10T19:03:17 < machinehum> Yeah
2023-03-10T19:03:21 < machinehum> Linear charger
2023-03-10T19:03:26 < machinehum> However then I have two pmics
2023-03-10T19:03:42 < machinehum> hmm
2023-03-10T19:03:55 < machinehum> It's also a BOM sensitive project
2023-03-10T19:05:24 < jpa-> and when you have synchronous buck from Vbat to Vbus, that will automatically work as synchronous boost from Vbus to Vbat
2023-03-10T19:05:49 < jpa-> only needs the extra code to do CC/CV charging without blowing up the batteries
2023-03-10T19:07:14 < jpa-> just make sure not to use 1:40, 1:20 or 1:10 divider for sensing the battery voltage
2023-03-10T19:07:24 < machinehum> I'm going to put an overvoltage comparator thing
2023-03-10T19:07:24 < jpa-> (funny RP2040 ADC errata :)
2023-03-10T19:07:45 < machinehum> "automatically work as synchronous boost from Vbus to Vbat"
2023-03-10T19:07:47 < machinehum> I don't get it
2023-03-10T19:08:13 < machinehum> How can a buck work as a boost?
2023-03-10T19:08:50 < fenugrec> *synchronous buck
2023-03-10T19:08:56 < jpa-> synchronous buck has same parts as synchronous boost
2023-03-10T19:08:57 < fenugrec> the diode is replaced by a mofset
2023-03-10T19:10:18 < machinehum> i read
2023-03-10T19:16:29 < machinehum> The inductor is on the other side
2023-03-10T19:16:48 < machinehum> Oh......
2023-03-10T19:18:04 < machinehum> Oh that's smart... I get it
2023-03-10T19:18:53 < machinehum> However when Vin is off, I would need to isolate it with a FET, basically if it's power from an AC adapter that adapter might not like 12V being driven into it
2023-03-10T19:19:46 < jpa-> so basically a diode, either schottky or FET ideal diode?
2023-03-10T19:20:03 < machinehum> yeah
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2023-03-10T19:25:19 < qyx> mawk: nbiot/lte-m, which one do you use?
2023-03-10T19:25:22 < jpa-> machinehum: https://tinyurl.com/2qmodxuf   i tried to make simulation but falstad is not co-operating
2023-03-10T19:25:52 < qyx> karlp: what's your chosen lte cat1 again?
2023-03-10T19:26:21 < jpa-> setting duty cycle slider to low values discharges battery ok, but it's a bit funny on the charge side - I guess that is normal, because boost usually requires active control loop
2023-03-10T19:26:25 < qyx> in the context of china induced fear, has anyone used ublox lte modems?
2023-03-10T19:31:02 < machinehum> jpa-: thanks
2023-03-10T19:31:08 < machinehum> Really cool
2023-03-10T19:33:49 < machinehum> I'm trying to think whatelse I might need for this thing
2023-03-10T19:34:31 < jpa-> protections, all kinds of
2023-03-10T19:34:58 < machinehum> For sure, but high bom cost items
2023-03-10T19:35:06 < machinehum> Inductor will be a few bucks
2023-03-10T19:35:40 < jpa-> balancing & protection for battery cells, if it is not a prebuilt battery
2023-03-10T19:36:14 < machinehum> Yeah smart
2023-03-10T19:36:38 < machinehum> There were these little chips you put in between cells
2023-03-10T19:36:49 < machinehum> Basically just burns power
2023-03-10T19:37:05 < machinehum> Anyone have a pn? I forgot who made them
2023-03-10T19:37:06 < jpa-> yeah, TL431 is pretty common for the application
2023-03-10T19:37:36 < machinehum> Oh
2023-03-10T19:37:41 < machinehum> Just a shunt?
2023-03-10T19:37:49 < jpa-> but many multi-cell battery protection / monitoring chips have built-in balancing also
2023-03-10T19:37:49 < machinehum> I guess that's all you need...
2023-03-10T19:38:47 < machinehum> mm
2023-03-10T19:40:47 < fenugrec> tl431 has a "big" quiescent current requirement, tlv431 much better (and lower voltage), although you probably don't want either of those permanently connected to the cells
2023-03-10T19:41:50 < machinehum> Would end up draining the cells flat in ship mode
2023-03-10T19:42:19 < qyx> I would not ship liions in a product
2023-03-10T19:42:24 < jpa-> 1µA max for TL431, 0.1µA max for TLV431 - not a problem except for tiny batteries
2023-03-10T19:42:52 < machinehum> qyx: Good thing that's not my job
2023-03-10T19:42:53 < jpa-> for 1000mAh battery that would be 114 years, even fedex is not that slow
2023-03-10T19:43:48 < fenugrec> hmm why do I remember a larger number
2023-03-10T19:43:55 < fenugrec> depends how you have it wired ofc
2023-03-10T19:44:15 < jpa-> i guess it varies, that spec is actually at Vref=0 which wouldn't be quite true
2023-03-10T19:44:38 < jpa-> doesn't need to be the "minimum current for regulation" because you don't need regulation at that point
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2023-03-10T19:45:15 < jpa-> and if you need a voltage divider, that also wastes some current
2023-03-10T19:46:06 < jpa-> if the cells are user replaceable, remember to also add diodes or you'll fry the balancing chips with negative voltage when user turns it on with one cell missing
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2023-03-10T19:47:14 < qyx> and reverse protection!
2023-03-10T19:47:18 < qyx> *voltage
2023-03-10T19:48:33 < jpa-> for maximum cheapness, do also balancing control, battery protection and overcurrent protection in software on the RP2040
2023-03-10T19:48:41 < jpa-> i'm sure it will work fine
2023-03-10T19:49:19 < qyx> do any of you have a clue how GPL relates to javascript libraries?
2023-03-10T19:49:31 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2023-03-10T19:49:34 < qyx> more specifically this one https://docs.webix.com/desktop__install.html
2023-03-10T19:49:43 < qyx> catphish: probably? ^
2023-03-10T19:50:17 < qyx> there is no linking step, is my app using the lib considered a derived work?
2023-03-10T19:50:35 < qyx> I guess if I modify the library, I must provide the sources of the modified work
2023-03-10T19:51:02 < qyx> but not if I develop an application and include GPL sources of the library without any odification
2023-03-10T19:54:16 < jpa-> i think usually calling javascript functions would be considered intimate enough connection to make the combination a derivative work instead of two separate works
2023-03-10T19:54:38 < jpa-> put HTTP API in between and you'll be a cool kid and safe from GPL monsters
2023-03-10T19:54:46 < jpa-> you can call it microservice
2023-03-10T19:56:20 < jpa-> the webix GPL version download screen also requires you to agree to "To license your software under GPLv3 (in case your app was developed with Webix GPL)"   so it's pretty clear that is what they expect the license to mean
2023-03-10T19:57:31 < qyx> hm, yeah
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2023-03-10T20:22:34 < fenugrec> specing,  "Domain Registration - ********* - 10 Year/s (03/10/2023 - 03/09/2033) $109.90CAD " Pretty much rock-bottom price, I don't see how it could be cheaper in 5 years. If so, wouldn't be by a large margin - AFAIK most of the price goes to CIRA (TLD authority for .ca)
2023-03-10T20:24:09 < specing> fenugrec: 5 years of investment on average results in +47% of invested money
2023-03-10T20:30:45 < fenugrec> true, but I won't have to shop around for a renewal in 5y, think of the time I'll save !
2023-03-10T20:41:13 < mawk> both qyx
2023-03-10T20:41:30 < mawk> the module switches depending on which one is available 
2023-03-10T20:41:42 < mawk> we cover more of europe like that
2023-03-10T20:42:03 < mawk> France has better LTE-M support than NB-IoT for instance 
2023-03-10T21:03:24 < Steffanx-> "we" :P
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2023-03-10T21:50:42 < qyx> mawk: sorry I mean which exact modules you use
2023-03-10T21:51:01 < mawk> SARA R510S-01B
2023-03-10T21:51:10 < mawk> for the combo nb-iot/lte-m
2023-03-10T21:51:28 < mawk> otherwise N211 and N310 we used in the past too
2023-03-10T21:51:39 < qyx> thats M1/NB2, isn't it?
2023-03-10T21:51:48 < qyx> NB2 covers NB1 too?
2023-03-10T21:53:13 < qyx> 3GPP Release 13 LTE Cat M1 and NB1
2023-03-10T21:53:16 < qyx> oh apparently yes
2023-03-10T21:57:02 < qyx> I was checking SARA-R422-01B-00 today
2023-03-10T21:57:23 < qyx> it is M1/NB1/EGPRS for those poor souls not having any IoT
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2023-03-10T23:49:28 < upgrdman> why is libreoffice such a piece of shit
2023-03-10T23:49:42 < upgrdman> keeps crashing while editing a ONE PAGE document. wtf
2023-03-10T23:50:08 < upgrdman> cpu load jumps to 100%, memory usage ramp up to >6GB, then it disappears. lol.
--- Day changed la maalis 11 2023
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2023-03-11T00:10:10 < Steffanx-> Microsoft Word is great isn't it?
2023-03-11T00:29:19 < fenugrec> can't remember ever getting LO to crash, but I've had some... "quirks", to be sure
2023-03-11T00:30:27 < fenugrec> I'll put up with a lot in exchange for not being chained to a yearly subscription though. They can eat shit
2023-03-11T00:30:31 < zyp> qyx, have you looked at nrf9160?
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2023-03-11T00:44:31 < qyx> upgrdman: it crashed maybe 2 times in my life so far, I am using it for everything, 20+ page documents
2023-03-11T00:44:52 < qyx> yeah it has some quirks as fenugrec says, but otherwise very stable
2023-03-11T00:44:54 < upgrdman> qyx, im on win10 if that makes a diff. maybe its good on linux
2023-03-11T00:45:27 < qyx> zyp: hm no
2023-03-11T00:45:51 < qyx> but thats not a pre certified module, is it?
2023-03-11T00:45:59 < zyp> ah, no
2023-03-11T00:46:28 < zyp> well, you can probably get that too
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2023-03-11T00:48:54 < zyp> hmm, they say the nrf9160 DK is pre-certified, not sure what that means
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2023-03-11T02:31:36 < qyx> [1137551.707933] cdc_ether 1-3.2:1.0 enx16d6edf0aefd: renamed from usb0
2023-03-11T02:31:38 < qyx> well done
2023-03-11T02:31:51 < qyx> now it is more reasonable
2023-03-11T02:33:36 < qyx> Bus 001 Device 106: ID 0525:a4aa Netchip Technology, Inc. Linux-USB CDC Composite Gadge (Ethernet and ACM)
2023-03-11T02:33:39 < qyx> at least it works
2023-03-11T02:34:22 < qyx> I am going to test how fast I can download data over cdc-ether
2023-03-11T02:35:50 < qyx> from that 528 or so MHz cortex-A5
2023-03-11T02:39:23 < qyx> hm, 8-11.3 MB/s using python -m http.server
2023-03-11T02:45:11 < qyx> netcat is slower, from 7.3 to 9.8 MB/s
2023-03-11T02:45:20 < qyx> I was expecting at least 20-30 MB/s :S
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2023-03-11T02:49:02 < Laurence_b> https://odysee.com/@Nemo1k:f/fainting-piglet-10--europe-and-the-refugees:8?src=embed
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2023-03-11T03:07:42 < fenugrec> where is the world going... a DRM-enabled, pay-per-use machine which as far as I can tell has no consumables, it's just an interference-fit "press" https://www.bilz.com/products/shrink-units/pay-per-use
2023-03-11T03:09:03 < fenugrec> oh and it's subscription-based too !!
2023-03-11T03:11:49 < Laurence_b> sounds like that jucer thingy
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2023-03-11T03:13:39 < qyx> increasing MTU to 15000 helps, python http.server now goes 17.4 MB/s
2023-03-11T03:13:42 < qyx> I can live with that
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2023-03-11T05:48:45 < ColdKeyboard> If you were to drive a 320x240 RGB888 display and have a reasonable ~10-15FPS screen refresh rate... In order to hold a frame buffer, you would need a ton of ram on the MCU. And if you were to use an external RAM, it would slow down the refresh rate, no?
2023-03-11T05:49:38 < ColdKeyboard> What would be the "sane" approach here without spending a $20 for something like STM32L4P
2023-03-11T06:10:27 < ds2> what kind of display?
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2023-03-11T07:50:26 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: use a display module with integrated framebuffer, or settle for 8-bit color, or pick controller that supports fast enough sdram
2023-03-11T07:51:28 < jpa-> 320x240 is just 75kB with 8 bit color
2023-03-11T08:08:00 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- It's RGB888, so it's 320x240x24
2023-03-11T08:08:51 < ColdKeyboard> It has an integrated framebuffer, but driving it over SPI and writting directly to that framebuffer is very slow unless you have at least a partial fram buffer on the MCU
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2023-03-11T08:45:09 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: use parallel bus from the MCU for writes
2023-03-11T08:45:34 < jpa-> and you don't need to use the full color depth if your graphics don't require it
2023-03-11T08:45:59 < jpa-> most panels are not that great that you would notice the difference between 24bit and 16bit color, and for most GUIs even 8 bits is fine
2023-03-11T08:47:58 < jpa-> regarding update speed on software side, a display list renderer like lvgl can be a good idea if you want flicker-free updates; but it imposes a certain kind of structure for your program, which is different than immediate mode libraries
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2023-03-11T10:39:59 < zyp> 320x240 24bpp 15fps is on the order of 30 Mb/s
2023-03-11T10:40:03 < zyp> that's not a lot of data…
2023-03-11T10:42:30 < zyp> I mean, you'd probably struggle if you tried to put the framebuffer in an external SPI PSRAM, but at that point you might as well use a SPI display
2023-03-11T10:43:47 < zyp> but any sort of memory mapped external ram should be an order of magnitude faster than that
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2023-03-11T11:04:07 < ventYl> for that resolution and framerate, even the SPI needs to be beefy, >8MHz I guess
2023-03-11T11:04:47 < zyp> uh, for regular SPI to do 30 Mb/s, you need to do 30 MHz :)
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2023-03-11T11:40:50 < ventYl> I cannot wrap my head around reactive webdesign
2023-03-11T11:42:05 < jadew> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/09/us/geico-insurance-std-settlement-missouri/index.html
2023-03-11T11:46:43 < Steffanx-> Dont do webdesign ventYl 
2023-03-11T11:47:07 < ventYl> you basically have to
2023-03-11T11:47:12 < ventYl> all that IoT is internet after all
2023-03-11T11:47:22 < ventYl> there always is some web somewhere
2023-03-11T11:48:21 < jadew> you have to because 50% of web usage is from mobile devices
2023-03-11T11:50:15 < jadew> there's a reason why "mobile first" design mantra was in place for years already - they expected things to shift like this
2023-03-11T11:51:27 < ventYl> that wouldn't be a problem, i've been doing webdesign some 14 years ago
2023-03-11T11:51:35 < ventYl> but shit has changed a lot
2023-03-11T11:51:54 < ventYl> good portion of my competence is useless now
2023-03-11T11:52:06 < jadew> you mean you can't use <table> for layout anymore?
2023-03-11T11:52:25 < ventYl> no, but everything has to be reactive client-side rendered application, not just a web
2023-03-11T11:52:39 < jadew> it doesn't
2023-03-11T11:52:47 < jadew> ah, you mean the layout
2023-03-11T11:52:49 < jadew> yeah
2023-03-11T11:52:51 < jadew> it does
2023-03-11T11:53:06 < jadew> but still not really
2023-03-11T11:53:21 < jadew> you could take the stupid route and have a mobile version of the thing
2023-03-11T11:53:28 < ventYl> not just the layout, reactive approach changes... well basically everything. if I understood it right, it is even a move in the right direction
2023-03-11T11:54:18 < jpa-> seems like buzzwords to me
2023-03-11T11:54:19 < jadew> what's difficult about it tho?
2023-03-11T11:54:30 < jadew> you just need to make thing resize with the window
2023-03-11T11:54:31 < jpa-> "changes everything"   yeah right
2023-03-11T11:55:10 < jpa-> in some layouts it is better to switch layout completely, in others it can be made to adapt continuously
2023-03-11T11:55:23 < ventYl> jadew: you probably meant word "responsive" instead of "reactive"
2023-03-11T11:55:43 < jadew> what do you mean by reactive then?
2023-03-11T11:56:03 < ventYl> it's more of an engineering term, less something user can "see" directly
2023-03-11T11:56:36 < ventYl> basically, reactive approach is to throw a bunch of javascript in, which will automatically change the user-visible DOM as the content of JS variables changes
2023-03-11T11:56:51 < jpa-> the dictionary definition of reactive is "more javascript, more reactive!!"
2023-03-11T11:57:01 < ventYl> so, you don't have to write explicit code to change HTML, it will be changed automatically if you change content of the variable
2023-03-11T11:57:46 < jadew> yeah, I didn't know if that's what you meant
2023-03-11T11:57:55 < jadew> there are frameworks that do that, but they're stupid
2023-03-11T11:57:57 < ventYl> it allows me to get rid of shitloads of boilerplate code
2023-03-11T11:58:18 < ventYl> I've been able to write basic invoicing frontend in like 300 lines of mixed html + JS
2023-03-11T11:58:27 < jpa-> that smells a bit like confusion between the terms "reactive web design" and the react.js library
2023-03-11T11:58:37 < ventYl> I didn't use react.js
2023-03-11T11:59:00 < jpa-> usually that approach to gui design is called "declarative" or "data-bound", not reactive
2023-03-11T11:59:15 < jadew> jpa-, no, reactive in this case actually means that things change all over the place when they change in one place
2023-03-11T11:59:22 < ventYl> yes, that's possible. i'm kinda out of that business for more than a decade
2023-03-11T11:59:32 < jadew> it's programmer-talk for web designers
2023-03-11T11:59:33 < jpa-> jadew: source?
2023-03-11T12:00:20 < jadew> look it up, that's what it is, there are several frameworks for this
2023-03-11T12:00:28 < jadew> vue
2023-03-11T12:00:38 < jadew> react might also be one
2023-03-11T12:00:40 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UI_data_binding   sure, they are listed here
2023-03-11T12:01:00 < jpa-> but even googling i can't find that being called reactive, 
2023-03-11T12:02:07 < ventYl> does that even matter? :)
2023-03-11T12:02:10 < jpa-> https://vuejs.org/guide/extras/reactivity-in-depth.html   ah, apparently "reactivity" is a word that does yield result
2023-03-11T12:02:30 < jpa-> ventYl: it does in the sense that if you google "reactive web design" it means something else
2023-03-11T12:02:59 < jpa-> so if you write "I cannot wrap my head around reactive webdesign" it is not very obvious that you mean reactivity / data binding
2023-03-11T12:04:03 < ventYl> jpa-: well, I thought this was fixed up some 10 lines above, but whatever
2023-03-11T12:04:39 < jadew> so what did you use ventYl?
2023-03-11T12:06:07 < ventYl> svelte, as apparently it's the only one not parsing the entire DOM on load time causing shit to slow down to crawling pace on pretty much anything slower than high-end PC
2023-03-11T12:07:39 < jadew> checked the example, didn't like it
2023-03-11T12:08:03 < Steffanx-> jadew.js is best lib for this.
2023-03-11T12:08:11 < jadew> Steffanx-, it is
2023-03-11T12:08:24 < ventYl> TBH I don't like any of them
2023-03-11T12:08:29 < jadew> I went through this about two years ago, made my own thing
2023-03-11T12:09:03 < ventYl> presence of "compile time" made Svelte to stand out among the others
2023-03-11T12:14:26 < ventYl> one hour wasted just because some shit got cached in the browser
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2023-03-11T12:23:04 < jadew> ventYl, put this in the cart, go to the cart and change the number of items: https://cojotech.com/pmo-030-3-ghz-replacement-kit-input-c
2023-03-11T12:23:37 < jadew> (you can select the number and scroll)
2023-03-11T12:24:08 < jadew> I had that before it was standard in browsers
2023-03-11T12:24:53 < ventYl> well, that's cool. we had this some 15 years ago too
2023-03-11T12:25:03 < ventYl> but we had to hand-craft it
2023-03-11T12:25:20 < jadew> it's part of a library I wrote
2023-03-11T12:26:23 < ventYl> that's also cool
2023-03-11T12:27:25 < ventYl> is that public?
2023-03-11T12:27:28 < jadew> no
2023-03-11T12:27:45 < jadew> whole website is written on jadew libs
2023-03-11T12:27:59 < ventYl> so cool but irrelevant
2023-03-11T12:28:14 < ventYl> i need something off-the-shelf I won't have strong urge to vomit from
2023-03-11T12:28:21 < jadew> I intended on making them open when I started, but then I figured I'd be catering to the wrong crowd 
2023-03-11T12:29:10 < ventYl> possibru
2023-03-11T12:29:43 < jadew> I don't know what to recommend you, I didn't like any of the options at the time, mainly because they're either using some custom templating shit or because they rely on regenerating the DOM and replacing big chunks of stuff all the time
2023-03-11T12:30:12 < zyp> I kinda like angular
2023-03-11T12:30:37 < zyp> kinda like, as in dislike less than all the other shit
2023-03-11T12:30:40 < ventYl> the whole reactivity case here is for me just to update on latest trends. this is purely private stuff, I could do it the nail-and-hammer style of 2000's with PHP doing server-side rendering and I'd be done weeks ago
2023-03-11T12:30:47 < jadew> it's probably the best choice since MS folks enjoy it also
2023-03-11T12:31:03 < zyp> part of that is that angular is probably the only thing I kinda understand
2023-03-11T12:31:21 < zyp> I mean, that I've taken the time to kinda understand
2023-03-11T12:31:24 < ventYl> I wrote off react and vue because they do DOM scanning on load time and that is awfully slow
2023-03-11T12:31:55 < ventYl> I made initial development on this on ARM notebook, that really pursues you to make up your mind on toolchain you use
2023-03-11T12:32:04 < jadew> zyp, yeah, biggest issue with this kind of stuff is debugging them
2023-03-11T12:32:24 < jadew> IIRC some of them have plugins for chrome dev tools, so you can debug performance issues
2023-03-11T12:32:27 < zyp> I wrote this shit in angular: https://store.zyp.no/
2023-03-11T12:32:42 < jadew> because they are common, and can't be debugged easily
2023-03-11T12:33:13 < ventYl> angular too does DOM scanning
2023-03-11T12:35:51 < jadew> my stuff embeds directly into typescript, no additional layers/plugins/etc
2023-03-11T12:35:57 < Steffanx-> How slow is slow? Zyps website is fine. Unless you're arm notebook is slower than my phone...
2023-03-11T12:36:13 < Steffanx-> Your*
2023-03-11T12:36:56 < jadew> you just go const obj = _o({ title: 'Test' }); document.body.appendChild(<div>{ o.title }</div>);
2023-03-11T12:37:19 < zyp> ew
2023-03-11T12:37:23 < jadew> and then if you do obj.title = 'whatever', it changes only the node in question
2023-03-11T12:37:35 < Steffanx-> The only thing that's slow at zyp's website is the probably intentional fade of the images ;)
2023-03-11T12:37:37 < jadew> zyp?
2023-03-11T12:38:24 < jadew> I meant <div>{ obj.title }</div> there
2023-03-11T12:39:12 < zyp> I really don't want to fuck around with html fragments in typescript
2023-03-11T12:39:25 < jpa-> i think both jadew's and zyp's store have some lag in the  document.on('out-of-stock', order_more);  callback
2023-03-11T12:39:39 < zyp> :)
2023-03-11T12:39:47 < jadew> heh
2023-03-11T12:40:12 < zyp> I got the last tray of parts I were waiting for for orbtrace last week
2023-03-11T12:40:13 < ventYl> Steffanx-: hm, maybe it doesn't do runtime scanning
2023-03-11T12:40:14 < jadew> zyp, it makes for very neat components
2023-03-11T12:40:27 < ventYl> actually it is fast
2023-03-11T12:42:32 < zyp> IME network latency is usually more of a bottleneck than browser performance
2023-03-11T12:43:41 < jadew> modern browsers are extremely good at dealing with shit js
2023-03-11T12:44:24 < jadew> I used a preview feature added to the DOM, which several months later got changed and my code resulted in an infinite loop
2023-03-11T12:44:38 < jadew> everything was still working as expected, with 4% CPU usage 
2023-03-11T12:45:49 < ventYl> JS becomes slow when you stress its "type system"
2023-03-11T12:46:02 < ventYl> which immutable approach quite often does
2023-03-11T12:47:34 < zyp> I'm using graphql towards the backend, which means any operation only needs to do at most a single operation towards the server
2023-03-11T12:47:50 < zyp> except the initial load; it does for queries because I were too lazy to merge them :p
2023-03-11T12:47:54 < zyp> four*
2023-03-11T12:48:44 < jadew> zyp, this is what it looks like for typescript + jsx: http://5.12.166.75/stuff/component.txt
2023-03-11T12:49:19 < jadew> you get total flexibility in what you can do in the constructor
2023-03-11T12:49:36 < jadew> you spread the generation of whatever is there over multiple methods, invoke other components, etc
2023-03-11T12:49:43 < zyp> the graphql client lib I'm using maintains a cache of every object it has fetched from the server, and any operation that changes anything returns the new state back, which gets merged into the cached state
2023-03-11T12:49:44 < jadew> all based on input data, so it can be extremely selective
2023-03-11T12:50:03 < zyp> e.g. putting something into the cart returns the updated cart back
2023-03-11T12:50:51 < zyp> jadew, looks like too much manual work really
2023-03-11T12:51:08 < jadew> zyp, why?
2023-03-11T12:51:41 < ventYl> yeah, too much work
2023-03-11T12:51:58 < jadew> you have to do the same shit if you want to make a custom component in other frameworks, and the result is much worse
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2023-03-11T12:52:34 < ventYl> my custom components look pretty much like a bunch of HTML + JS
2023-03-11T12:52:59 < jadew> and this doesn't?
2023-03-11T12:54:00 < ventYl> this does like HTML spitting JS
2023-03-11T12:54:08 < ventYl> none of my JS generates HTML
2023-03-11T12:54:38 < jadew> well, that's the trade-off
2023-03-11T12:54:41 < zyp> here's the footer component of my store: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cpvch https://paste.jvnv.net/view/3b9P2
2023-03-11T12:55:04 < ventYl> jadew: I enjoyed years of HTML spitting PHP, I'm glad I don't do this anymore
2023-03-11T12:55:05 < jadew> you can either have templating or... regular programming style kind of thing
2023-03-11T12:55:40 < jadew> zyp, that's awful
2023-03-11T12:55:49 < zyp> thanks
2023-03-11T12:55:53 < jadew> not your code
2023-03-11T12:55:59 < jadew> but how it needs to be done
2023-03-11T12:56:45 < jadew> you basically have a templating language on top of it all, when it's not really necessary, let me try to rewrite the first example, and then I'll try to understand the second
2023-03-11T12:57:04 < jadew> what's the second one anyway?
2023-03-11T12:57:06 < ventYl> well, Svetle looks a the least cluttered here
2023-03-11T12:57:10 < jadew> or is that the same thing?
2023-03-11T12:57:20 < ventYl> almost no hacks of either JS or HTML
2023-03-11T12:58:04 < jadew> zyp, what does this mean? *ngIf="menu$ | async as menu"
2023-03-11T12:58:06 < zyp> jadew, it's the html and the typescript for the footer component
2023-03-11T12:59:24 < zyp> menu$ is an observable, "menu$ | async as menu" does an async assignment into menu, i.e. menu is the result from menu$
2023-03-11T12:59:35 < zyp> and it's wrapped in an if block so it doesn't render before the result arrives
2023-03-11T13:00:09 < jadew> I see, so we're observing menu?
2023-03-11T13:00:40 < zyp> observable is a rxjs concept, it's like a future except it can get a result more than once
2023-03-11T13:01:05 < jadew> yeah, I have that too
2023-03-11T13:01:50 < zyp> if you see in the typescript part, menu$ is filtered from footerGQL, i.e. the graphql query to fetch the footer data
2023-03-11T13:02:43 < zyp> this particular one won't really get more than one result ever, because there's nothing to trigger an update
2023-03-11T13:02:54 < zyp> but I'm following the same pattern as anywhere else
2023-03-11T13:03:52 < jadew> *ngIf="item?.url"
2023-03-11T13:03:56 < jadew> this is necessary?
2023-03-11T13:04:01 < jadew> is url optional?
2023-03-11T13:04:10 < jadew> let's say it is.
2023-03-11T13:04:41 < zyp> that's an artifact of the generation from graphql
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2023-03-11T13:04:59 < jadew> so do I need to consider it optional?
2023-03-11T13:05:19 < zyp> graphql schema for the backend server doesn't specify that the url is a mandatory field, and so the generated typescript also treats it as optional
2023-03-11T13:05:29 < jadew> I see
2023-03-11T13:05:39 < zyp> I didn't write the schema, not my fault
2023-03-11T13:06:02 < jadew> makes the code a little uglier than it should be, but I'll go along with it
2023-03-11T13:06:38 < jadew> I don't know what routerLink is, but I'll assume something happens there
2023-03-11T13:07:30 < zyp> internal navigation
2023-03-11T13:08:14 < zyp> oh, right, url *is* optional
2023-03-11T13:08:31 < jadew> refresh the link I posted
2023-03-11T13:08:35 < zyp> external links will have url set, is a regular full url
2023-03-11T13:08:53 < zyp> internal links have page set instead, which is an internal link to /page/whatever
2023-03-11T13:08:55 < jadew> that would be all in my case
2023-03-11T13:09:16 < jadew> and in reality, you don't even need to make a component out of this
2023-03-11T13:09:36 < jadew> if it's not reused a lot, you can just use it directly (the part that gets assigned to the element property)
2023-03-11T13:10:10 < zyp> indeed, I just like having the footer as a separate component even if it's only instanced once
2023-03-11T13:11:02 < jadew> I use a mixture of serverside html generation and js, the general layout would be generated from the server side
2023-03-11T13:11:11 < jadew> and I would only generate the bits that "move" from js
2023-03-11T13:13:26 < jadew> is it not cleaner?
2023-03-11T13:13:45 < jadew> basic js/ts with basic jsx
2023-03-11T13:14:00 < jadew> and flexibility to do whatever you want with it
2023-03-11T13:14:16 < zyp> this is probably more your kind of component: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/okPJf https://paste.jvnv.net/view/VSqbr i.e. something dumb and reusable
2023-03-11T13:14:33 < zyp> and no, I don't think mixing html and typescript is cleaner
2023-03-11T13:16:32 < jadew> I hate piping wrapper functions
2023-03-11T13:16:52 < jadew> that's one of the things I hated the most in serverside templating engines
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2023-03-11T13:17:47 < jadew> it leads to so much pain whenever you're trying to do anything more complex
2023-03-11T13:18:01 < zyp> pipes? pipes are great
2023-03-11T13:18:06 < jadew> maybe angular is more flexible in this regard
2023-03-11T13:18:35 < jadew> I agree, the feature itself is nice to have, but it becomes an issue if it's the only thing you have
2023-03-11T13:19:25 < jadew> like if you had to extract the data in the controller side so it becomes available to the view as a single variable, because you couldn't pass parameters or do any complex calls
2023-03-11T13:19:32 < jadew> (not sure if that's the case with angular)
2023-03-11T13:19:36 < zyp> I'm using a custom pipe to turn the results from the product query into something that the image gallery component eats
2023-03-11T13:19:39 < zyp> <gallery gallerize [items]="product.media | galleryItems"></gallery>
2023-03-11T13:20:05 < zyp> galleryItems implementation looks like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PecUB
2023-03-11T13:21:01 < jadew> with my thing you would say <gallery>{ this.galleryItems() }</gallery>, assuming product would be a property of the component at this point
2023-03-11T13:21:14 < jadew> or just generate them in place, depending on how complex they were
2023-03-11T13:21:52 < zyp> I could, but product is another *ngIf="product$ | async as product"
2023-03-11T13:21:54 < jadew> two different philosophies I guess
2023-03-11T13:22:24 < jadew> personally I dislike straight templating
2023-03-11T13:22:58 < jadew> I can create my own separation between view and logic, and I like to draw the line myself where that separation is
2023-03-11T13:24:29 < jadew> with templates you're limited to what the template can understand, that's where the separation is, so it's often not driven by ideology, but by technical limitations
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2023-03-11T13:33:22 < jadew> that's a funny nickname
2023-03-11T13:34:38 < zyp> the thing I like about angular is that I can think of it as mostly html with custom elements, and then fill in with just enough typescript to make it work
2023-03-11T13:35:03 < zyp> e.g. all the mat- stuff is library elements from angular material
2023-03-11T13:35:17 < zyp> ref. https://material.angular.io/
2023-03-11T13:35:27 < zyp> I don't need any typescript to use any of that
2023-03-11T13:35:34 < zyp> and that is great
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2023-03-11T13:43:27 < jadew> same here
2023-03-11T13:44:23 < jadew> I have a standard library of stuff
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2023-03-11T16:54:18 < Steffanx-> Luckily none of you will get orders from people with javascript disabled. (and it doesnt even show a notification, one website is just white, the other doesnt show the cart etc.)
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2023-03-11T17:44:55 < jadew> they can call
2023-03-11T17:59:06 -!- [itchyjunk] [~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-11T18:27:05 < rustyaxe> <noscript>It's 21st century. Enable javascript or get lost</noscript>
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2023-03-11T18:42:45 < tomeaton17> hello
2023-03-11T18:47:56 < jadew> I'm going to challenge myself to disable javascript for a week
2023-03-11T18:48:02 < jadew> but not now
2023-03-11T18:48:34 < jadew> my electricity bill is probably going to be half of what it currently is
2023-03-11T18:49:42 < specing> lol, yep
2023-03-11T18:50:02 < specing> jadew: I also have a thing that does a killall -STOP firefox when I unfocus it
2023-03-11T18:50:08 < specing> and -CONT on focus
2023-03-11T18:50:21 < specing> and AutoTabDiscard
2023-03-11T18:50:25 < specing> and noscript ofcs
2023-03-11T18:51:19 < tomeaton17> i got a 4090 and the electricity cost is brtual
2023-03-11T18:51:38 < jadew> is that a video card?
2023-03-11T18:51:47 < tomeaton17> it is
2023-03-11T18:52:08 < tomeaton17> draws about 400w at max load
2023-03-11T18:52:13 < jadew> made much bitcoin?
2023-03-11T18:52:57 < tomeaton17> lol I think the electricity costs would out way the profit
2023-03-11T18:53:06 < tomeaton17> and I don't want to burn alive in my room
2023-03-11T18:54:26 < jadew> https://i.redd.it/o4h091map4na1.jpg
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2023-03-11T18:58:56 < tomeaton17> looks like something from r/cringeanarchy rip
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2023-03-11T19:53:22 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-11T19:55:12 < Posterdati> please help, I have a problem with punning a union in c++: I use: union xyz { uint32_t reg; struct { bitfields... } } to address registers accordingly. But I'm not able to write in the 0xe0000000 space, shall I add something in the linker script? Thanks!
2023-03-11T19:55:54 < jpa-> what happens when you try to write it?
2023-03-11T19:56:02 < Posterdati> writing the bitfield works when the union is in RAM, otherwise it does not work
2023-03-11T19:56:14 < Posterdati> jpa-: it remains with the original value
2023-03-11T19:56:23 < jpa-> writing the bitfield may cause byte-sized writes, some peripherals only accept word-sized writes
2023-03-11T19:56:49 < Posterdati> well I wrote 32 bit at once, after updating
2023-03-11T19:56:59 < qyx> how?
2023-03-11T19:57:24 < Posterdati> changing the pointed value of a volatile uint32_t
2023-03-11T19:57:33 < Posterdati> volatile uint32_t *p
2023-03-11T19:57:48 < jpa-> i don't understand, you need to pastebin some actual code
2023-03-11T19:58:21 < Posterdati> eh
2023-03-11T19:59:50 < Posterdati> anyway, is there a particular config for M7 core registers memory in the linker script?
2023-03-11T19:59:59 < Posterdati> are they .text ?
2023-03-11T20:00:10 < jpa-> what is "core registers memory"?
2023-03-11T20:00:23 < jpa-> r0...r15 are not memory mapped
2023-03-11T20:00:24 < Posterdati> form 0xe0000000 on
2023-03-11T20:00:47 < jpa-> ah, core peripherals
2023-03-11T20:00:54 < Posterdati> core peripherals yes
2023-03-11T20:00:55 < jpa-> most linker scripts do not map them at all
2023-03-11T20:01:26 < Posterdati> ok, but seems that changing bitifield in the struct of the union works if data is in ram
2023-03-11T20:01:41 < jpa-> yes, ram can be written in single bytes
2023-03-11T20:02:01 < jpa-> you can check the generated instructions to see what width of store it does
2023-03-11T20:02:46 < Posterdati> I saw this: strb    r3, [r2, #3]
2023-03-11T20:02:54 < jpa-> so that is a byte write
2023-03-11T20:03:13 < jpa-> according to https://stackoverflow.com/a/28983288/914716 using -fstrict-volatile-bitfields and "volatile uint32_t bitfieldentry: 5;"  may work
2023-03-11T20:04:01 < Posterdati> r3 = 0x01, r2 = 0xe000ed20 (= SCB SHPR3 register)
2023-03-11T20:04:03 < jpa-> but that will be terribly inefficient anyway, as it will make a dozen read-write cycles
2023-03-11T20:04:13 < karlp> qyx: I'm using a quacktel eg91-ex, but cavli quoted me $8 in 500s for their new https://www.cavliwireless.com/c-series/c16qs.html
2023-03-11T20:04:27 < karlp> quacktels are like 18euro.
2023-03-11T20:05:22 < karlp> qyx | I would not ship liions in a product
2023-03-11T20:05:38 < karlp> why not? it's the only way you're normally _allowed_ to ship liions
2023-03-11T20:05:41 < Posterdati> jpa-: but why a byte write? Is that from the bitfield sizes in the union?
2023-03-11T20:06:04 < jpa-> Posterdati: why not a byte write?
2023-03-11T20:06:35 < Posterdati> jpa-: does it work for SCB registers?
2023-03-11T20:07:41 < jpa-> what does the ref man say, can the register be byte written?
2023-03-11T20:08:52 < Posterdati> I do not know!
2023-03-11T20:10:27 < jpa-> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0552/a/cortex-m3-peripherals/system-control-block/system-handler-priority-registers   "SHPR1-SHPR3 are byte accessible. See the register summary in Table 4.12 for their attributes."   apparently they can
2023-03-11T20:10:44 < Posterdati> they are organized in bytes
2023-03-11T20:11:14 < Posterdati> but why I cannot write them using a volatile pointer to them?
2023-03-11T20:11:41 < jpa-> step through instruction-by-instruction in the debugger and post a gdb log of the write that doesn't seem to take effect
2023-03-11T20:11:58 < karlp> someone's doing g_cdc.... and about to find out it won't work on windows :|
2023-03-11T20:11:59 < jpa-> display /i $pc, info registers etc. the usual stuff
2023-03-11T20:13:18 < jpa-> note also "Each PRI_n field can be up to 8 bits wide, but the processor implements only bits[7:M] of each field, where M is implementation defined. Bits[M-1:0] read as zero and ignore writes."
2023-03-11T20:18:14 < Posterdati> exactly
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2023-03-11T20:41:36 < qyx> karlp: yeah fuk windowers, they can use wifi
2023-03-11T20:42:48 < qyx> it is going to be an add-on
2023-03-11T20:43:11 < karlp> g_ether works on windows, mac and linux,
2023-03-11T20:43:18 < karlp> g_cdc works on mac and linux,
2023-03-11T20:43:46 < karlp> and that extra console is nice, but... I just decided to let it just be a ssh on the g_ether instead of having an explicit _console_ on the combo.
2023-03-11T20:44:04 < qyx> wut, wasn't rndis required on windows in the past?
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2023-03-11T20:44:14 < Laurence_b> fucking 3d printing bro
2023-03-11T20:44:15 < karlp> yeah, which g_ether does, but g_cdc doesn't...
2023-03-11T20:44:18 < Laurence_b> muh 3d printrrr
2023-03-11T20:44:21 < Laurence_b> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Tv6pbDCmLk
2023-03-11T20:44:52 < qyx> I should probably check the current status of things
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2023-03-11T20:59:05 < jpa-> IIRC windows 10 and newer also support NCM
2023-03-11T20:59:41 < jpa-> and there have been rumors that rndis now requires separate driver installation on windows 11
2023-03-11T21:14:51  * qyx browsing the interweb
2023-03-11T21:15:19 < qyx> mtp is probably not an option either
2023-03-11T21:17:33 < jpa-> webusb all the way
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2023-03-11T21:22:18 < Steffanx-> and we all have to use a chromium based browser. YAY!
2023-03-11T21:22:51 < Steffanx-> Cant you add support to firefox, jpa- ?
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2023-03-11T21:26:36 < jpa-> i guess one reasonable configuration interface would be HTML + javascript page, which then generates a .json you can save to the device; would work with MTP or MSC
2023-03-11T21:31:56 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Thank you for mentioning lvgl! I did not know about this and it looks like it can be very helpful!
2023-03-11T21:32:37 < Posterdati> jpa-: I found the problem!
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2023-03-11T21:33:12 < Posterdati> jpa-: the mechanism is working, the problem is that simply one cannot write 0x01 in SHPRx byte!
2023-03-11T21:34:40 < Posterdati> you can write the upper nibble! 
2023-03-11T21:35:10 < Posterdati> Each PRI_n field is 8 bits wide, but the processor implements only bits[7:M] of each field, and bits[M-1:0] read as zero and ignore writes. 
2023-03-11T21:36:10 < Posterdati> so shift and or :)
2023-03-11T21:36:34 < zyp> don't shift, treat them as 0.8 fixedpoint
2023-03-11T21:37:21 < ColdKeyboard> I found this awesome FAN driver IC from Microchip (https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/EMC2305) but can't find any drivers for it... Anyone knows a lib or some referenc code I coudl use before I start writting my own?
2023-03-11T21:37:55 < zyp> i.e. if you need four priority levels, use the 0.8 fixedpoint equivalent of 0, 0.25, 0.5 and 0.75
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2023-03-11T21:38:46 < zyp> binary, that'd be .00, .01, .10 and .11
2023-03-11T21:39:06 < Posterdati> ?
2023-03-11T21:39:32 < zyp> have you ever worked with fixedpoint numbers?
2023-03-11T21:41:21 < zyp> consider this: 1b is 1, 10b is 2, 100b is 4 and so on
2023-03-11T21:41:39 < zyp> so 0.1b is 1/2, 0.01b is 1/4 and 0.001b is 1/8 and so on
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2023-03-11T21:42:20 < zyp> fixedpoint formats are expressed as number of integer bits and then number of fractional bits
2023-03-11T21:43:21 < zyp> so a 2.2 fixedpoint number is a four bit number from 00.00 to 11.11, going 0, 0.25, 0.5, …, 3.5, 3.75
2023-03-11T21:44:08 < Posterdati> jpa-: are you there?
2023-03-11T21:44:14 < Posterdati> jpa-: anyway thanks
2023-03-11T21:44:37 < Posterdati> jpa-: I RTFM and solved, as always :)
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2023-03-11T21:45:01 < zyp> so, if you treat the priority as a 0.8 fixedpoint number, you get a priority going from 0 to 0.996 or so, i.e. .00000000 to .11111111
2023-03-11T21:45:18 < kaki> zyp: how do I assign nothing to std::function?
2023-03-11T21:45:27 < zyp> nullptr? idk
2023-03-11T21:46:07 < kaki> probs
2023-03-11T21:46:30 < zyp> Posterdati, I'm just saying «use the top bits first» in a really longwinded way
2023-03-11T21:47:03 < zyp> i.e. if you need four priority levels, use 0x00, 0x40, 0x80 and 0xc0
2023-03-11T21:47:05 < Posterdati> lol
2023-03-11T21:47:15 < Posterdati> thnaks
2023-03-11T21:47:16 < zyp> don't use 0 << 4, 1 << 4, 2 << 4 and 3 << 4
2023-03-11T21:47:17 < Posterdati> hanks
2023-03-11T21:47:45 < Posterdati> zyp: e.g. priority 1 is 16, 2 is 32
2023-03-11T21:47:58 < Posterdati> 3 is 48 and so on
2023-03-11T21:48:06 < zyp> yeah, don't do that
2023-03-11T21:48:29 < Posterdati> why? arm are good for shifting binaries :)
2023-03-11T21:48:43 < zyp> it fucks up when you switch to a different chip with a different number of implemented bits
2023-03-11T21:49:04 < Posterdati> no, I used macros to make it save
2023-03-11T21:49:06 < Posterdati> no, I used macros to make it safe
2023-03-11T21:49:20 < Posterdati> the shift is not fixed
2023-03-11T21:49:35 < zyp> my point is that the shift is totally pointless
2023-03-11T21:50:38 < zyp> let's take an easy example and say you only need two levels
2023-03-11T21:50:53 < zyp> you then divide the range in two halves and use 0x00 and 0x80
2023-03-11T21:51:12 < zyp> it just works no matter how many bits are implemented
2023-03-11T21:51:51 < Posterdati> but you always need to know how many bits you need!
2023-03-11T21:51:54 < zyp> same with 0x00, 0x40, 0x80 and 0xc0, it'll give you four levels if at least two bits are implemented
2023-03-11T21:52:11 < zyp> and if only one bit is implemented, it gracefully merges two and two levels
2023-03-11T21:52:26 < zyp> nope
2023-03-11T21:53:17 < zyp> you only need to spread it across as many levels as makes sense for your application, and it gets distributed reasonably across how many levels your hardware got
2023-03-11T21:53:32 < zyp> that's why I said think fixedpoint
2023-03-11T21:54:00 < zyp> think of priority as a decimal number from 0 to 1, not inclusive
2023-03-11T21:55:10 < zyp> if you need five levels, you could do 0.0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8, and then just let them round to whatever the hardware implements
2023-03-11T21:55:26 < zyp> best case, you get five distinct levels, worst case some of the adjacent ones are combined
2023-03-11T22:04:09 < Posterdati> ok thanks
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2023-03-11T22:25:23 < qyx> jpa-: I plan to use ethernet over usb or wifi, html/js, json to python-flask
2023-03-11T22:26:04 < qyx> and maybe reuse openwrt's UCI backend, but I am not that far yet
2023-03-11T22:26:10 < jpa-> makes sense, ipv6 + some autodiscovery dns?
2023-03-11T22:26:45 < qyx> yeah probably to not bother the user entering the correct address
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2023-03-11T22:34:11 < bitmask> why do I overengineer everything... just creating a personal/professional page for myself to display some projects and to create/display the photo albums I'm using like 8 different AWS services... Cognito, Amplify, S3, AppSync, GraphQL w/ DynamoDB, REST API, Lambda, ...
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2023-03-11T22:35:11 < zyp> engineer, overengineer, what's the difference?
2023-03-11T22:35:22 < bitmask> heh
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2023-03-11T22:56:42 < zyp> I feel like I'm trying to batch up too much shit to submit to jlcpcb at once
2023-03-11T22:57:42 < zyp> but I guess that's what happens when I'm doing a bunch of shit that's all gonna plug into each other
2023-03-11T22:59:02 < zyp> well, I also got a couple unrelated shits I'll do at the same time
2023-03-11T23:01:08 < zyp> one of them is a respin of the shit I did last time where I forgot one of the drill files: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1055255764802998303/IMG_20221221_234749.jpg
2023-03-11T23:03:19 < qyx> there are too many shits per line
2023-03-11T23:03:42 < zyp> :)
2023-03-11T23:04:46 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1055255764358406234/IMG_20221221_234904.jpg <- still was useful to get some measurements, concluded that the connector on the left side is off by 0.4mm or so
2023-03-11T23:05:30 < zyp> and a 2L board with that size and a pour on only one side bends like bimetal :p
2023-03-11T23:06:20 < karlp> jpa-: windows 10 didn't support g_cdc out of the box, but did with g_ether, with a 5.15 kernel gadget at least
2023-03-11T23:06:51 < karlp> well, it might have with drivers, but g_ether gave me a functional nework with IP running on osx, linux and windows 10 without any installing
2023-03-11T23:07:09 < qyx> so g_ether it will be then
2023-03-11T23:07:11 < zyp> what class is that?
2023-03-11T23:07:15 < qyx> didn't you even try composite?
2023-03-11T23:07:47 < zyp> is it multiconfig, or is there actually something that works on all three?
2023-03-11T23:09:31 < karlp> I just have a fixed IP to enter, we tried using some dhcp server dns name tricks, but never really got it working satisfacatorily,
2023-03-11T23:09:58 < karlp> have both avahi (well, openwrt's mdns internal now) and u2pnpd to make things show up in network browsing though
2023-03-11T23:10:23 < zyp> can't you use mdns?
2023-03-11T23:11:06 < karlp> yeah, in theory, in reality, it was not always entirely reliable, sometimes it just... wouldn't
2023-03-11T23:11:19 < karlp> but things have probably advanced since the 8-9 years ago we first implemented it
2023-03-11T23:12:39 < karlp> I briefly experimented with making my own composites out of all the functions, and tried https://github.com/linux-usb-gadgets/libusbgx and some others, but fucmk me, you'r eoff in the woods really fast there. segfaults, unintended behaviour, wildly undocumented, just decided g_ether was enough
2023-03-11T23:13:33 < zyp> :)
2023-03-11T23:13:51 < karlp> and despite how _useful_ things like the precomposed g_xxxxx are, linux upstream seems to view this "horrible legacy, should never have been done, of course you should be composing all this via the configs trashfire by hand instead"
2023-03-11T23:14:04 < karlp> which is... yes, infintiely flexible, but holy shit, what a disaster
2023-03-11T23:14:10 < karlp> "modprobe g_ether && profit"
2023-03-11T23:14:26 < karlp> even just "here's how you do g_ether the right way" is a trashfire
2023-03-11T23:14:44 < karlp> and as soon as you leave hte g_xxxx preconfigured, you need a vid/pid as well
2023-03-11T23:22:20 < qyx> I just want the guy in field to come to the thing, connect <some> cable, it shows itself as a soemthing in his windows device, he double clicks "Thing configuration" to check the config or "Thing data" to access the data
2023-03-11T23:22:41 < qyx> in the latter case an explorer window appears with ton of directiories which he can ctrl+c/ctrl+v
2023-03-11T23:23:44 < qyx> so however weird it seems, the first one is probably a link to a web interface and the second onw
2023-03-11T23:23:48 < qyx> well, ftp or webdav
2023-03-11T23:25:24 < qyx> oh yeah cdc-acm + obex is still a thing too apparently
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2023-03-11T23:50:08 < qyx> how wrong is connecting an ethernet RJ45 socket shield directly to GND?
2023-03-11T23:50:18 < qyx> front panel is connected directly to GND too
2023-03-11T23:50:28 < qyx> and all coax connectors too
2023-03-11T23:50:47 < qyx> and that shield si connected to the front panel
2023-03-11T23:52:52 < zyp> matters jack shit if you're only plugging UTP into it anyway
2023-03-11T23:55:06 < qyx> you cannot assume that
2023-03-11T23:55:26 < zyp> no, I can't, just saying
2023-03-11T23:56:12 < qyx> the whole theory "connect everything using multiple points" is contradictory to all other examples
2023-03-11T23:56:23 < qyx> and yet the majority of computing devices uses it
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2023-03-12T00:01:58 < qyx> haha NINA-W13 is an ESP32 from u-blox
2023-03-12T00:13:47 < zyp> they've got a bunch of nrf5x based modules too
2023-03-12T00:14:04 < zyp> was wondering if their lte-m stuff was nrf91, but seems not
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2023-03-12T17:30:36 < jbo> sup?
2023-03-12T17:31:40 < jpa-> jbo: has your baby been growing well?
2023-03-12T17:32:28 < jbo> :s
2023-03-12T17:32:40 < jbo> still in avoidance mode
2023-03-12T17:33:18 < jpa-> you or the baby?
2023-03-12T17:33:24 < jbo> me
2023-03-12T17:34:39 < jpa-> for babies the fear of strangers passes by 2 years of age, but for some dudes the fear of babies is permanent
2023-03-12T17:34:49 < jbo> hah
2023-03-12T17:38:16 < Steffanx-> Keep practicing tectu 
2023-03-12T17:41:17 < jpa-> if it gets too difficult, you can always donate the baby to Steffanx- 
2023-03-12T17:41:37 < Steffanx-> No, Steffanx- has fear for people. So that includes babies.
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2023-03-12T19:06:17 < kaki> oh no
2023-03-12T19:06:45 < kaki> is it a recent change or has it always been?
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2023-03-12T19:15:41 < Steffanx-> Lol. 
2023-03-12T19:18:47 < kaki> covid induced cabin fever?
2023-03-12T19:19:12 < Steffanx-> I finally added some webpage to a domain i own. Enjoy Kaki: https://schapenzeggen.be (it probably doesn't make sense to you, but it says sheepsay.baa)  
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2023-03-12T19:19:59 < kaki> cool animals
2023-03-12T19:20:05 < kaki> what are those sheep looking things
2023-03-12T19:20:16 < Steffanx-> I'm alright kaki. Maybe i just turned Finnish. All that's left is a sauna in the backyard 
2023-03-12T19:20:23 < kaki> and mämmi
2023-03-12T19:20:27 -!- Linux_Kerio [~Linux_Ker@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-12T19:20:52 < Steffanx-> Perkele!
2023-03-12T19:21:00 < jbo> "mämmi" is the local term for "baby" .__.
2023-03-12T19:25:46 < Steffanx-> No it's fermented poop 
2023-03-12T19:26:02 < Steffanx-> Dipped in milk (or something)
2023-03-12T19:26:42 < Steffanx-> Finnish delicacy
2023-03-12T19:27:06 < jbo> ?!
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2023-03-12T19:55:41 < Steffanx-> Don't you recognize all the sheep types Kaki?
2023-03-12T19:55:52 < kaki> no
2023-03-12T19:56:13 < kaki> I dont
2023-03-12T19:56:15 < kaki> what is it
2023-03-12T20:00:57 < Steffanx-> Something random 
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2023-03-12T20:06:31 < kaki> oh wow
2023-03-12T20:06:36 < kaki> f5 that page
2023-03-12T20:06:45 < qyx> there is only o..
2023-03-12T20:06:46 < qyx> oh
2023-03-12T20:07:49 < kaki> why .be Steffanx-?
2023-03-12T20:08:17 < Steffanx-> Because a sheep says "beeh" in dutch
2023-03-12T20:08:34 < Steffanx-> Or "beeeee"
2023-03-12T20:09:04 < kaki> aa
2023-03-12T20:09:14 < kaki> bää
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2023-03-12T20:10:32 < Steffanx-> I'll add an auto refresh. Then my webdev is done for today
2023-03-12T20:12:28 < kaki> how many unique visitors you have had?
2023-03-12T20:13:33 < qyx> beee
2023-03-12T20:14:35 < Steffanx-> Idk. The webpage only exists for a few hours now.
2023-03-12T20:19:34 < boddax> look like me those sheep pic
2023-03-12T20:23:45 < Steffanx-> haha boddax . 
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2023-03-12T21:27:03 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Fleck, Ad0
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2023-03-12T22:22:01 < kaki> oscar gala tonight
2023-03-12T22:22:47 < kaki> will we see a full boxing match?
2023-03-12T22:24:37 < Steffanx-> who's Oscar?
2023-03-12T22:27:07 < kaki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Awards
2023-03-12T22:27:17 < kaki> ah it's called Academy Awards
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2023-03-12T22:40:57 < rustyaxe> I dont understand
2023-03-12T22:41:11 < Steffanx-> was ist los mr rustyaxe ?
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2023-03-12T22:41:59 < rustyaxe> Eh. I'm currently dealing with some parts that ending up going through Kaola Tea control not quality control apparently. Yet every one has a stamp on them.
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--- Day changed ma maalis 13 2023
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2023-03-13T00:52:29 < Steffanx-> They want to make sure you have a job too, rustyaxe 
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2023-03-13T01:29:12 < catphish> <jpa-> for maximum cheapness, do also balancing control, battery protection and overcurrent protection in software on the RP2040
2023-03-13T01:29:16 < catphish> i feel atacked.
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2023-03-13T11:25:30 < karlp> up2npd + g_ether + a web server on your device will work foryour scenario qyx,
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2023-03-13T12:36:56 < karlp> fucking no.
2023-03-13T12:36:59 < karlp> worked on windows 10.
2023-03-13T12:37:30 < karlp> just went and was retestign on my colleagues after he updated to windows 11, not it just shows up as a "com3" serial port, with "rndis ethernet gadget"
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2023-03-13T12:52:23 < karlp> fucking windows.
2023-03-13T12:52:46 < karlp> yeah, g_cdc at least shows up an exclamation mark with "plz install drivers" but it doesn't do anything out of the box.
2023-03-13T12:52:57 < karlp> g_ether just shows up as a fuckign com port on windows 11.
2023-03-13T12:53:14 < karlp> windows can fuck off for a while then, no time to sort out a solution there right now
2023-03-13T13:05:56 < qyx> lol
2023-03-13T13:06:05 < karlp> fuck windows
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2023-03-13T13:55:48 < Steffanx-> Language karlp 
2023-03-13T13:59:33 < qyx> it is exactly like vikings used to talk
2023-03-13T14:02:06 < karlp> I'm no longer sure if there's _any_ out of the box solution.  https://github.com/ev3dev/ev3-systemd/blob/ev3dev-jessie/scripts/ev3-usb.sh claims it works, ifyou add all the extra descriptors to help coax windows into doing the right thing with rndis 6, but you really need your own usb/vid/pid for that.
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2023-03-13T15:59:36 < karlp> qyx: that script gets me a rndis network interface properly recognised in windows 11, but it "doesn't start" which suggests theres some more tweaks required to get the IAD / os descriptors "just so"
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2023-03-13T16:31:05 < PhantomWork> Hi there, stm32f103, trying to implement a ring buffer for uart1 using HAL and interrupts. All the examples I could find use __HAL_UART_ENABLE_IT(&huart1, UART_IT_TXE);   to initiate the first transfert. On my setup, it cause the µC to freeze.... I turned on a led before and off after, led stay on... And I also have a "turn off led" as the first
2023-03-13T16:31:06 < PhantomWork> line of the interrupt function...
2023-03-13T16:31:11 < PhantomWork> what could be wrong?
2023-03-13T16:33:22 < karlp> ok, cute, I've rejiggered that script and I can get rndis only, workig in windows and linux,
2023-03-13T16:33:26 < karlp> but I know that won't work with osx.
2023-03-13T16:33:37 < karlp> for some reason the cdc ether part isn't working anymroe on linux..
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2023-03-13T16:37:16 < PaulFertser> PhantomWork: most probably it's stuck in your irq handler. But probably it does hardfault for whatever reason. Using SWD or JTAG debugging often helps to get that sorted out.
2023-03-13T16:42:36 < PhantomWork> PaulFertser: I tried to debug... but it seems like I don't know how or it crash and fail to debug
2023-03-13T16:42:53 < PhantomWork> do you have debugging tips for this?
2023-03-13T16:46:09 < PaulFertser> PhantomWork: not if you're being so vague about what doesn't work exactly. I'm using OpenOCD and plain GDB, neither usually crashes.
2023-03-13T16:48:30 < PaulFertser> If OpenOCD segfaults, please report, I'll try to fix.
2023-03-13T16:49:20 < PhantomWork> I use cube ide.... but somehow, this time it behave differently... weird...
2023-03-13T16:49:29 < PhantomWork> let me check what it do now...
2023-03-13T16:51:24 < qyx> oh cube
2023-03-13T16:51:30 < qyx> the root of all evil
2023-03-13T16:52:54 < PhantomWork> does anyone knows of a good code example for HAL uart tx ring buffer in interrupt mode?
2023-03-13T16:54:09 < qyx> karlp: so it has to be done manually with those quirks mentioned, the kernel config doesn't work anymore, do I get it correctly?
2023-03-13T16:54:10 < rustyaxe> I tried cube for like 3 days before realizing it was hopeless and not just due to the java infestation :P
2023-03-13T16:55:24 < karlp> qyx: that's my best understanding yes.
2023-03-13T16:57:09 < qyx> k I'll try it when I have the new hardware at hand
2023-03-13T17:05:17 < fenugrec> I read "coax windows" as in "coaxial windows - what, is there a twisted-pair windows I've never heard of?"
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2023-03-13T17:28:30 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/Cf5W4cE.jpeg
2023-03-13T17:28:38 < mawk> I made this board to isolate the FTDI cables from the fucky level shifter
2023-03-13T17:28:40 < mawk> and now I can read the serial comms going through it without the level shifter going crazy
2023-03-13T17:39:03 < PhantomWork> is there a good code ressource for stm32 somewhere?
2023-03-13T17:56:49 < kaki> cube
2023-03-13T17:57:32 < kaki> and all the discovery board examples
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2023-03-13T18:03:51 < PhantomWork> kaki: where are those discovery board examples? spread across the web?
2023-03-13T18:04:53 < kaki> it's all in ST's resources
2023-03-13T18:04:57 < kaki> made by ST
2023-03-13T18:05:35 < kaki> maybe even cube can invoke such example projects for discovery boards
2023-03-13T18:05:54 < kaki> idk. havent used cube that much
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2023-03-13T18:07:58 < PhantomWork> anything more precise? because I can't find anything good... I must be headache blinded I guess...
2023-03-13T18:11:49 < kaki> find discovery board that has same family mcu that you have
2023-03-13T18:11:53 < kaki> go to resources page
2023-03-13T18:12:32 < PhantomWork> yeah bluepill is one, and, well, they do interrupt based receive, but not transmit...
2023-03-13T18:13:07 < PhantomWork> somehow the uart transmit callback is not called... like if the interrupt was not enabled
2023-03-13T18:18:10 < karlp> qyx: plain rndis that windows 11 likes is ~75/70Mbits/sec depending on iperf3 server/client direction,  on linux. windows is 75/75,
2023-03-13T18:18:20 < karlp> so I'd just need to fuck around with something for windows.
2023-03-13T18:18:27 < karlp> for osx sorry
2023-03-13T18:19:03 < qyx> that's pretty low
2023-03-13T18:19:34 < karlp> it's about 90Mb/sec with g_ether,
2023-03-13T18:19:44 < karlp> not sufficiently faster to try and fuck around with that though.
2023-03-13T18:20:08 < karlp> that's just out of the box settings, I'm sur eyou can tune all sorts of shit.
2023-03-13T18:20:41 < karlp> but I don't have an osx device here right now to fuck around with either unfortunately.
2023-03-13T18:28:36 < karlp> what speeds are you hoping for, that's pretty close to 100meg ethernet...
2023-03-13T18:30:08 < qyx> 20-30 MB/s
2023-03-13T18:30:23 < qyx> I achieved 17 MB/s without special tuning
2023-03-13T18:30:23 < karlp> where did you that desired figure from?
2023-03-13T18:30:48 < qyx> it is an educated guess what I thing should be possible
2023-03-13T18:30:49 < qyx> oh karlp 
2023-03-13T18:30:57 < qyx> ifconfig usb0 mtu 15000
2023-03-13T18:31:03 < karlp> this is just using default iperf3 settings.
2023-03-13T18:31:04 < qyx> that helps considerably
2023-03-13T18:31:12 < qyx> for large files
2023-03-13T18:32:52 < qyx> my basic benchmark is whether it takes longer to unmount the physical unit, get the SD card out, put into a reader, read 32G, put it all back
2023-03-13T18:33:03 < qyx> or connect a diagnostic cable and dump the same 32G over USB
2023-03-13T18:33:38 < qyx> with a SD card reader you can get about 22-28MB/s
2023-03-13T18:33:43 < karlp> if you're fuckign lucky
2023-03-13T18:33:49 < qyx> yeah
2023-03-13T18:33:50 < karlp> maybe you have a nice one, and great sdcards,
2023-03-13T18:34:17 < karlp> mtu makes no difference on these iperf3 tests at least.
2023-03-13T18:34:32 < qyx> so if I can do 20 MB/s over USB, I can use eMMC instead of SDs
2023-03-13T18:34:38 < qyx> and it would be less hassle
2023-03-13T18:34:50 < qyx> you have to set mtu on both sides
2023-03-13T18:35:05 < qyx> it makes about x2
2023-03-13T18:35:16 < qyx> for a 16 MB http download
2023-03-13T18:35:46 < qyx> I guess the correct direction only helps too
2023-03-13T18:38:01 < karlp> yeah, I set it on both ends, or at least, neither end complained.
2023-03-13T18:38:25 < karlp> ip link shows it on both sides.
2023-03-13T18:38:31 < qyx> idk then
2023-03-13T18:38:43 < PhantomWork> ok.... I fixed part of my bugs!   but... now, if I debug I get the data out from the uart, but not if I run it normally. could it be possible that the callback function is also triggered on half transmission and not only at fully completed?
2023-03-13T18:41:16 < karlp> there's two interrupts, txe and txc, and 
2023-03-13T18:41:24 < karlp> and you'll get them for every single byte transmitted
2023-03-13T18:42:02 < karlp> qyx: what hardware are you on again? you might just have better gadget hw drivers :)
2023-03-13T18:42:16 < karlp> musb on allwinner has had some limitations on PIO only for years iirc,
2023-03-13T18:42:42 < karlp> I'm not sure I have anything else around though
2023-03-13T18:42:58 < karlp> Iv'e got an old rpi v1 in a drawer somewhere, btu fuck figuring out what that can run these days
2023-03-13T18:43:10 < PhantomWork> stm32f103
2023-03-13T18:45:27 < PhantomWork> should I use HAL_UART_TxCompleteCallback() instead of HAL_UART_TxCpltCallback() ?
2023-03-13T18:45:30 < karlp> qyx: hrm, I should try a UMS gadget I guess...
2023-03-13T18:46:15 < PhantomWork> from the description... the txcplt seems more apropriate, which is what I use...
2023-03-13T18:46:45 < PhantomWork> my code work if I add              while (HAL_UART_GetState(&huart1) != HAL_UART_STATE_READY);    just before the second transmit... which defeat the point of using the interrupt...
2023-03-13T18:51:05 < karlp> qyx: ok, I've got a 120MB mass storage file on emmc, accessed via gadget mass storage, and it's ~11MB/sec read, benchmarked from my desktop.  
2023-03-13T18:51:21 < karlp> which is about the same as the g_ether was. /8 ?
2023-03-13T18:51:31 < PhantomWork> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b88dd7d1/   <==== this is what I have, the while 'fix' it, but.... it's a ugly patch... any better solution?
2023-03-13T18:52:21 < karlp> are you using rs485?
2023-03-13T18:52:36 < karlp> you probably don't want to use the TC interrupt unless you are.
2023-03-13T18:52:40 < karlp> just use TXE.
2023-03-13T18:52:48 < karlp> and if you get the interrupt, you're allowed to write into it.
2023-03-13T18:52:56 < karlp> turn off the interrupt ifyour ring empties.
2023-03-13T18:55:18 < karlp> qyx: linux gadget: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FXz6R.png
2023-03-13T18:56:48 < karlp> running the same thing with uboot's ums now, for giggles.
2023-03-13T19:00:13 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/YCZxq.png pretty similar
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2023-03-13T19:21:13 < karlp> should get a rpizero2w or something to compare to one day.
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2023-03-13T19:24:29 < PhantomWork> karlp: do you know why I need to add that delay/loop there?
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2023-03-13T19:28:03 < qyx> karlp: cortex a5 at 500 something MHz
2023-03-13T19:28:08 < qyx> dwc otg iirc
2023-03-13T19:29:19 < qyx> and I have rpi zero 2w, it is unobtainium now
2023-03-13T19:29:25 < qyx> I can check
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2023-03-13T20:37:21 < qyx> any
2023-03-13T20:37:25 < qyx> nope.
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2023-03-13T22:11:44 < PhantomWork> hi again, tell me.. can the stm32f103 work without the AVCC and AGND connected? I messed up the board :D
2023-03-13T22:12:57 < PhantomWork> I don't use any analog stuff...
2023-03-13T22:16:32 < ventYl> A* pins usually are good for analog circuitry only. it should work. if it is not used, it is good to ground them both to decrease consumption and general noise
2023-03-13T22:17:59 < qyx> PhantomWork: no
2023-03-13T22:18:08 < qyx> ventYl: no
2023-03-13T22:18:17 < qyx> you cannot ground AVDD
2023-03-13T22:18:36 < qyx> and without it even SWD is dead
2023-03-13T22:18:56 < PhantomWork> arrg... so that's why it is not recognised...
2023-03-13T22:19:01 < ventYl> umm
2023-03-13T22:19:15 < PhantomWork> now... how can I bodge something... without proper tools...
2023-03-13T22:20:54 < PhantomWork> thanks... that's bad news...ow well
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2023-03-13T22:27:36 < PhantomWork> qyx: what about the other vss/vdd? must they all be connected or can I use 2 pairs only? I don't need much current
2023-03-13T22:30:38 < qyx> yes, sure
2023-03-13T22:30:44 < qyx> that's usually a general rule
2023-03-13T22:30:58 < qyx> there is a power supply block schematic in the datasheet of your MCU
2023-03-13T22:32:05 < qyx> (but yes, there may be occassions when the MCU works without all the power rails connected, but that's out of specs)
2023-03-13T22:32:33 < qyx> and out of abs max ratings, which clearly specs voltages on every rail
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2023-03-13T22:45:46 < PhantomWork> of course... AVCC run the PLL... therefore the clock during programming....
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--- Day changed ti maalis 14 2023
2023-03-14T00:05:24 < rustyaxe> http://istabpeople.com/junk/keepcoding.jpg
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2023-03-14T00:06:30 < Steffanx-> Koala Tea numbing your brain rustyaxe ?
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2023-03-14T10:03:01 < qyx> liebe stm32 pros
2023-03-14T10:03:03 < qyx> https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/issues/43135
2023-03-14T10:03:13 < qyx> the topic is stm32 UART in stop mode
2023-03-14T10:03:23 < qyx> and there are two issues
2023-03-14T10:04:29 < qyx> the first one is the UART runs using HSI when in stop mode (you can actually configure the oscillator) but it is not accurate
2023-03-14T10:05:11 < qyx> so usually the first character received after exiting stop mode is corrupted, depending on the temperature and the state of HSI inaccuracy
2023-03-14T10:05:39 < qyx> the second issue is you cannot enter stop mode before the last character is completely transmitted
2023-03-14T10:06:11 < qyx> the latter one is relatively easy, you just wait until all interfaces are free of any transmission
2023-03-14T10:10:03 < zyp> what's the relevancy of the zephyr issue?
2023-03-14T10:16:16 < qyx> that's basically the same one
2023-03-14T10:17:09 < qyx> I mean, in the broader sense
2023-03-14T10:17:18 < qyx> the issue is it is actually not working that way
2023-03-14T10:19:55 < zyp> the zephyr issue looks like an issue of missing zephyr power management infrastructure, and not really applicable outside zephyr, so if you're not using zephyr that seems like a red herring
2023-03-14T10:20:31 < qyx> ok forget about the zephyr issue
2023-03-14T10:20:35 < qyx> the stm32 issue is the right one
2023-03-14T10:20:42 < zyp> so, you're switching which oscillator the UART is clocked from?
2023-03-14T10:21:27 < zyp> and the HSI is not really accurate enough to run it in the temperature conditions you've got?
2023-03-14T10:36:17 < qyx> true
2023-03-14T10:36:57 < qyx> but I don't think it is resolvable
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2023-03-14T10:53:12 < karlp> use a better stm32?
2023-03-14T10:53:21 < karlp> many of them let you use other clocks for the uarts,
2023-03-14T10:53:34 < karlp> and yes, this may/will limit the baud rates you can do :)
2023-03-14T10:56:24 < karlp> or, build "hello hellllllloooo!!!!!" intyour wakeup protocol?
2023-03-14T10:56:33 < karlp> and accept they need to be woken before youc anc ommunicate with them?
2023-03-14T10:56:40 < karlp> instead of expecting your uart to be 100% reliable?
2023-03-14T11:03:46 < zyp> that's what I was going to suggest
2023-03-14T11:04:38 < zyp> either use a better clock source, a baud rate that'll work reliably with the clock source you got, or alter the protocol to account for data loss during wakeup
2023-03-14T11:05:07 < zyp> and this of course depends what you're at liberty to change
2023-03-14T11:05:22 < karlp> which, from qyx's point of view is "it hurts when I do x, what can I do?", 'stop doing x'"  :)
2023-03-14T11:06:06 < zyp> I mean, if you can't change anything to fix the problem, you're stuck with it
2023-03-14T11:06:07 < qyx> it is pretty hard to do something else when I want a CLI
2023-03-14T11:06:27 < qyx> and yes, LPUART can use LSE in stop mode
2023-03-14T11:06:35 < qyx> but not ith higher speeds
2023-03-14T11:06:37 < zyp> ah, this is a dumb CLI?
2023-03-14T11:06:49 < qyx> yep
2023-03-14T11:06:57 < zyp> and your target falls asleep between keypresses?
2023-03-14T11:07:11 < qyx> yes
2023-03-14T11:07:22 < zyp> don't do that then
2023-03-14T11:07:26 < qyx> :D
2023-03-14T11:08:07 < zyp> keep a cli on/off state, first wakeup puts it into on state and prints a hello message, and then it stays awake waiting for more keypresses for a minute or whatever
2023-03-14T11:08:22 < zyp> and if you don't get anything, just kill the cli and go to sleep
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2023-03-14T11:08:45 < qyx> hm actually that's not that bad idea
2023-03-14T11:08:58 < qyx> login manager can hold a wake lock
2023-03-14T11:09:00 < zyp> I assume you won't be using the cli often enough that staying awake for a minute kills your battery
2023-03-14T11:09:06 < zyp> exactly
2023-03-14T11:09:20 < zyp> instead of a timeout you could require an explicit logout
2023-03-14T11:09:21 < qyx> after 5 minutes of inactivity it logs off and releases the lock
2023-03-14T11:09:23 < zyp> or a combination
2023-03-14T11:11:08 < zyp> where's the uart coming from? it feels a bit weird to me to use an actual uart for it (vs usb)
2023-03-14T11:11:44 < zyp> and if you used usb, you'd have power, which could allow you to stay awake indefinitely without worrying about battery
2023-03-14T11:14:02 < karlp> wat? you hit enter a few times to wake up a console, that's nothing new...
2023-03-14T11:14:40 < zyp> sure, as long as it doesn't fall asleep again between every keystroke so you're stuck just waking it up
2023-03-14T11:14:43 < karlp> but yeah, what zyp said,
2023-03-14T11:15:01 < karlp> I hadn't read at that point that you were sleeping, _to stop mode!_ betweek keypresses :)
2023-03-14T11:15:06 < karlp> ULTIMATE POWAH SAVAH!
2023-03-14T11:15:28 < zyp> I forgot which mode is which, STOP still retains RAM?
2023-03-14T11:15:29 < qyx> it is just a feature causing trouble
2023-03-14T11:15:35 < qyx> yeah
2023-03-14T11:15:56 < qyx> I am putting the thing in stop mode in the idle task :>
2023-03-14T11:16:04 < qyx> I haven't seen anybody doing that
2023-03-14T11:16:19 < qyx> but I tested it and it works very well
2023-03-14T11:16:33 < qyx> I have a fully running freertos with less than 100 uA
2023-03-14T11:17:14 < qyx> except such little peculiarities
2023-03-14T11:18:21 < qyx> so putting it aside now, I need to reinvent a way to keep a wakelock using rtos primitives
2023-03-14T11:21:46 < jpa-> counting semaphore?
2023-03-14T11:23:14 < jpa-> though i usually prefer a function like      void prevent_sleep(int milliseconds);   and call that when a relevant event occurs
2023-03-14T11:23:23 < jpa-> avoids forgetting to release a lock
2023-03-14T11:24:02 < jpa-> implementation something like   void prevent_sleep(int milliseconds) {  g_next_sleep_time = std::max(g_next_sleep_time, time_now() + milliseconds); }
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2023-03-14T11:38:25 < qyx> yeah but the semaphore would need to count upside down
2023-03-14T11:38:43 < qyx> to unlock when reaching 0
2023-03-14T11:39:31 < qyx> or I am missing something
2023-03-14T11:41:00 < jpa-> initialcount = maxcount and then just check the count before sleeping, compare with e.g. https://www.freertos.org/CreateCounting.html
2023-03-14T11:45:08 < qyx> I was considering waiting on the semaphore in the sleeping task before all locks are released and then sleep afterwards
2023-03-14T11:47:11 < qyx> but this would need wait_until(initialcount == maxcount
2023-03-14T11:55:35 < karlp> heh, matter (csa-iot.org) went blockchain, they have a "distributed certification ledger" 
2023-03-14T12:35:19 < karlp> hrm, this device appears to be using lpc1850 uclinux.  2012 uboot, compiled in 2020.
2023-03-14T12:35:36 < karlp> seems like an odd choice, butI guess it's leveraging some existing designs I suppose
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2023-03-14T13:31:52 < jpa-> qyx: isn't the sleeping task low priority anyway? what does it matter if it polls?
2023-03-14T13:32:27 < jpa-> "i have the most efficient idle task"
2023-03-14T13:56:11 < zyp> idle task could poll the locks, go to STOP if none are held, otherwise just do a regular wfi
2023-03-14T13:56:53 < zyp> because once you get to the idle task, none of the locks are gonna change state until you're interrupted by anything
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2023-03-14T14:40:33 < qyx> hm that's true zyp
2023-03-14T15:13:34 < karlp> fuckign test equipment bricking with failed fw updates is super fun...
2023-03-14T15:13:50 < qyx> you should have used NI
2023-03-14T15:14:01  * karlp glares at qyx
2023-03-14T15:25:38 < zyp> hah
2023-03-14T15:28:39 < zyp> this project I'm debugging for a client is fun… the stuff they've got from the original developers is missing a lot of shit
2023-03-14T15:29:33 < zyp> I've got no hardware schematics, but they sent a pdf with layout plots… of an older board revision…
2023-03-14T15:29:47 < ventYl> original developers tried to seal the vendor lock-in?
2023-03-14T15:30:04 < zyp> that or lazyness, idk
2023-03-14T15:30:22 < zyp> and then I've got the source for the application, but not the bootloader
2023-03-14T15:30:46 < qyx> incompetence
2023-03-14T15:30:55 < zyp> there's bootloader binaries, but the scripts to combine bootloader and application image is missing
2023-03-14T15:31:08 < zyp> and it's adding some checksumming so I can't just flash the elf alone
2023-03-14T15:31:24 < jpa-> one project where i was the original developer, the client is using me as their documentation management system
2023-03-14T15:31:50 < jpa-> no matter how many times i resend schematics etc. and say "put them in your archives", i'm still the only place where they can find them
2023-03-14T15:32:03 < ventYl> jpa the javadoc
2023-03-14T15:32:07 < zyp> well, I bypassed that particular issue by patching the bootloader reset vector to point directly at the code that jumps to application after checking :p
2023-03-14T15:32:15 < jpa-> ventYl: the 'p' is for persistence
2023-03-14T15:32:38 < qyx> javadoc persistent archive?
2023-03-14T15:33:09 < ventYl> zyp: this brings in some bad memories. are there, by any chance, multiple copies of bootloader binaries and legacy, unused stuff laying around just because it can?
2023-03-14T15:33:38 < zyp> there's two bootloader binaries, for two different hardware variants
2023-03-14T15:33:43 < zyp> I think they just differ in metadata
2023-03-14T15:33:54 < ventYl> no fun unless both of them are outdated
2023-03-14T15:34:17 < zyp> extra fun: debug is not broken out
2023-03-14T15:34:28 < zyp> there's a debug connector, but it only has reset, uart and i2c
2023-03-14T15:35:32 < zyp> actual debug lines are hooked to a resistor network for pullup/downs, so I've bodged on my own swd header
2023-03-14T15:36:44 < qyx> is there an atomic way of toggling bits in a word?
2023-03-14T15:36:50 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TvU4K.jpg
2023-03-14T15:36:55 < jpa-> it amazes me how many people don't use a debugger, and are even proud of "not needing one"
2023-03-14T15:37:27 < qyx> even the resistor network is EOL
2023-03-14T15:37:31 < qyx> fuk the shortage
2023-03-14T15:37:44 < jpa-> qyx: atomic in relation to what? on ARM you can make any operation atomic in the calculate-exchange-retry sense
2023-03-14T15:37:59 < jpa-> the bitbanding aliases are atomic also
2023-03-14T15:38:36 < zyp> they sent me some weird USB dongle though, and instructions on how to use https://www.flashmagictool.com/ with it
2023-03-14T15:38:45 < qyx> I mean differently than RMW, in case another thread does the same and context switch occurs in between
2023-03-14T15:39:07 < zyp> qyx, you'll have to use ldrex/strex or something
2023-03-14T15:39:32 < jpa-> __sync_and_and_fetch() etc. GCC builtins will work
2023-03-14T15:39:44 < qyx> or while ((bits & bitmask) == 0) bits |= bitmask; ?
2023-03-14T15:39:47 < zyp> yeah, or even stdatomic.h
2023-03-14T15:40:00 < zyp> no, that's not safe
2023-03-14T15:40:15 < zyp> a non-atomic rmw can end up unsetting bits that got set meanwhile
2023-03-14T15:40:37 < jpa-> heh, somehow i didn't know about stdatomic
2023-03-14T15:41:25 < zyp> I've never used it, I just know it's the C equivalent of the C++ atomic header
2023-03-14T15:41:37 < zyp> they're built on the same base
2023-03-14T15:42:23 < ventYl> if cortex-m0+ then no luck, it does not have atomics
2023-03-14T15:42:32 < karlp> fuckign finally got the update done.
2023-03-14T15:44:31 < qyx> never heard of stdatomic.h
2023-03-14T15:44:47 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/1hY5Wxecc   on cortex-m3 compiles to strex as one would expect
2023-03-14T15:45:17 < jpa-> cortex-m0 generates call to __sync_fetch_and_or_4    have to look into libgcc or something to see what that is
2023-03-14T15:45:51 < qyx> oh great
2023-03-14T15:46:22 < qyx> your pro level is ++ now
2023-03-14T15:46:30 < qyx> thank you
2023-03-14T15:46:39 < ventYl> jpa-: the generic implementation might be OK as long as you don't preempt
2023-03-14T15:46:51 < ventYl> otherwise you might have to overload it
2023-03-14T15:47:02 < jpa-> i wouldn't be surprised if the generic implementation is just "disable interrupts; do your thing; enable interrupts"
2023-03-14T15:47:11 < jpa-> considering cortex-m0 doesn't have atomic ops
2023-03-14T15:47:21 < jpa-> but of course that will fail on rp2040 and other dualcore things
2023-03-14T15:51:24 < karlp> what? cortex-m0 doesn't even compile for me on godbolt?
2023-03-14T15:52:09 < karlp> needs more -msoft-float?!
2023-03-14T15:52:18 < karlp> the fuck does it need that for to be specified upfront
2023-03-14T15:57:35 < jpa-> because godbolt no longer seems to have arm-none-eabi compilers, the arm-linux-eabi defaults to hardfloat unless you give -mfloat-abi=soft
2023-03-14T15:58:19 < zyp> they have arm-none-eabi-gcc 11
2023-03-14T15:58:30 < zyp> that's the «(none)»
2023-03-14T15:59:55 < jpa-> ah, indeed
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2023-03-14T17:16:55 < karlp> whee, who needs processing in embedded space, just raw stream live samples over btle, process it all on the host! https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mEXh3.png
2023-03-14T17:17:30 < zyp> :)
2023-03-14T17:18:13 < karlp> so this means the current boards have "sufficiently" low noise compared to the last rev, which is good...
2023-03-14T17:18:51 < karlp> that's phase fired from the generator, pcb rogowski coil, back integrated and correctly~ getting the phase fired signal again.
2023-03-14T17:19:23 < zyp> I found out yesterday that for all the effort they've put into encrypting and obfuscating the protocol of those BLE devices I'm reverse engineering, they've failed to secure them against replay attacks
2023-03-14T17:20:26 < zyp> I can take a capture of packets sent to one device and simply replay them as is to another device and it'll execute the same shit
2023-03-14T17:20:32 < Steffanx-> Hmm i must have a talk with our IT department to ask why our new firewall blocks bin.jvnv.net ...
2023-03-14T17:21:09 < zyp> probably because it made it onto some blacklists after somebody tried hosting malware there
2023-03-14T17:21:12 < Steffanx-> "Phishing" wut.
2023-03-14T17:21:20 < zyp> yup
2023-03-14T17:21:41 < karlp> yeah, my friends can't get to bin.jvnv either
2023-03-14T17:22:24 < zyp> I'm not sure if it's the domain or the IP that's blacklisted, probably domain
2023-03-14T17:22:40 < zyp> might be worthwhile to switch subdomains and forward the old to a new one at some point
2023-03-14T17:23:01 < rustyaxe> could it be their ipv6 is broken?
2023-03-14T17:23:50 < zyp> this is 2023, all browsers should be able to work around broken ipv6 setups, no?
2023-03-14T17:24:07 < Steffanx-> Here it's the URL it seems. Unless bin.jvnv.net and jvnv.net are not on the same server
2023-03-14T17:24:16 < zyp> they are
2023-03-14T17:24:20 < zyp> okay, good
2023-03-14T17:24:35 < Steffanx-> Yeah it's bin.jvnv.net
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2023-03-14T19:29:13 < benishor> https://www.eucom.mil/pressrelease/42314/russian-aircraft-collides-into-us-unmanned-system-in-international-waters
2023-03-14T19:29:16 < benishor> well well
2023-03-14T19:48:53 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2023-03-14T19:53:44 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-14T19:54:41 < Posterdati> please help, on stm32f7 I have a strange behaviour for systick: I cannot load RVR value if the timer is not enable! Thanks for help
2023-03-14T19:58:54 < Posterdati> I selected external clock (AHB = 216 MHz / 8 = 27 MHz)
2023-03-14T20:07:21 < Posterdati> solved!
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2023-03-14T22:22:23 < Laurence_b> orbital sides
2023-03-14T22:22:24 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFrLgj75XsAEhki8.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2023-03-14T22:22:37 < Laurence_b> they gave up on censoring it, so added a disclaimer instead
2023-03-14T22:37:25 < specing> "as a subhuman species" what
2023-03-14T22:39:31 < Laurence_b> keeek it went full nazi
2023-03-14T22:41:35 < ventYl> wat is DAN?
2023-03-14T22:41:42 < ventYl> gpt went schizophrenic?
2023-03-14T22:42:37 < PaulFertser> ventYl: do anything now, the jailbroken GPT
2023-03-14T22:44:49 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: I suggest you read https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/D7PumeYTDPfBTp3i7/the-waluigi-effect-mega-post , that's much more entertaining than "kekking" on twitter nonsense, unless you're on drugs.
2023-03-14T22:47:02 < ventYl> PaulFertser: TBH I am not amused by it. I honed my web search skills on Altavista, I need no ChatGPT
2023-03-14T22:50:45 < PaulFertser> ventYl: I'm amused at its fiction stories generating abilities.
2023-03-14T22:52:44 < PaulFertser> ventYl: altalavista too I presume?
2023-03-14T22:53:10 < ventYl> PaulFertser: maybe, it's... almost 30 years ago?
2023-03-14T22:53:25 < ventYl> I remember altavista.com, later it became altavista.digital.com
2023-03-14T22:53:27 < PaulFertser> ventYl: just 20
2023-03-14T22:53:49 < PaulFertser> ventYl: I mean the search engine for cracks/keygens.
2023-03-14T22:54:04 < ventYl> back then all I had was rusty IBM PS/2 Model 70
2023-03-14T22:54:14 < ventYl> no cracks needed as it wasn't officially capable of running Windows 95
2023-03-14T23:00:48 < specing> how do you "jailbreak" GPT
2023-03-14T23:01:04 < PaulFertser> specing: please read the article I linked to
2023-03-14T23:06:10 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2023-03-14T23:06:17 < PaulFertser> ventYl: and you had a web browser to access altavista on it?
2023-03-14T23:06:36 < PaulFertser> iirc windows 95 could run even on 80386.
2023-03-14T23:08:02 < PaulFertser> I think I used Netscape Navigator on 80486 Linux back in 1998 or a bit later.
2023-03-14T23:08:04 < ventYl> PaulFertser: There was Netscape Navigator 3.x and Internet Explorer up to 5.5 ran on Windows 3.1 just fine
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2023-03-14T23:08:29 < ventYl> but I didn't have internet connection back then, I used to visit internet cafe with two or three cases of floppies
2023-03-14T23:09:03 < ventYl> there was also stuff called XChaos Arachne, which was a DOS-based web browser
2023-03-14T23:09:43 < ventYl> also, PS/2 Model 70 had 386SX, which wasn't officially supported by the windows
2023-03-14T23:10:02 < ventYl> you had to use some manual method to run setup with specific switch that ignored hardware checks
2023-03-14T23:10:14 < PaulFertser> Windows 3.11 was the version that introduced networking support iirc.
2023-03-14T23:10:49 < ventYl> you could install trumpet winsock even into windows 3.1 I guess
2023-03-14T23:11:03 < ventYl> 3.11 added windows-specific stuff such as file sharing, etc.
2023-03-14T23:11:30 < ventYl> my problem back then was more like lack of modem and friggin expensive connection
2023-03-14T23:16:06 < ventYl> with that IBM machine being one of machines you didn't want be searching peripherals for
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2023-03-14T23:24:14 < PaulFertser> "astalavista.box.sk was founded in 1994[1] as one of the first search engines for computer security information. In practice it turned out to be used as a search engine for security exploits, software for hacking, cracking and different keygenerators and software cracks."
2023-03-14T23:25:29 < specing> so it was used as search for comp sec info
2023-03-14T23:26:26 < ventYl> PaulFertser: astalavista ! yeah, I remember that
2023-03-14T23:27:18 < ventYl> there was other stuff on box.sk too
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2023-03-15T01:44:41 < Laurence_b> mining the Moon will be harmful to indigenous people
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2023-03-15T03:14:05 < catphish> i'd just like to reiterate my annoyance that stm32 can't output a continuous clock signal when doing sync serial, and hence can't receive unless it's also transmitting
2023-03-15T03:16:01 < catphish> > Note: The CK pin works in conjunction with the TX pin. Thus, the clock is provided only if the transmitter is enabled (TE=1) and a data is being transmitted (the data register USART_DR has been written). This means that it is not possible to receive a synchronous data without
2023-03-15T03:16:01 < catphish> transmitting data.
2023-03-15T03:16:18 < catphish> why would they do this :'(
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2023-03-15T03:25:17 < machinehum> What's a normal amount for 18650's in volume
2023-03-15T03:25:22 < machinehum> tinyurl.com/yt742u4h
2023-03-15T03:25:36 < machinehum> 65 cents a cell seems way too cheap at qtd 1000
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2023-03-15T04:20:39 < catphish> that seems well below any price i've ever seen, can't explain why though
2023-03-15T04:24:33 < catphish> seems pretty legit
2023-03-15T04:29:04 < specing> maybe possible for 1200mAh shitcells
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2023-03-15T07:26:28 < qyx> catphish: with SPI you can select RX only mode, then it generstes clock on its own
2023-03-15T07:26:58 < qyx> and does basically the same as sync serial
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2023-03-15T10:23:07 < ventYl> heh, stm32 infested vscode with cube
2023-03-15T10:26:52 < ventYl> I guess they are planning to drop Eclipse sooner or later
2023-03-15T10:27:43 < rustyaxe> doesnt seem like a bad thing
2023-03-15T10:27:57 < rustyaxe> eclipse is dreadful anyways
2023-03-15T10:28:42 < ventYl> it will probably be same shit, different cover
2023-03-15T10:28:53 < ventYl> the MX will remain, just the shell will change
2023-03-15T10:39:28 < rustyaxe> idk i gave up on cube after about 3 days, i have minimal tolerance for java software.. too slow and clunky
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2023-03-15T10:59:20 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-15T11:07:41 < karlp> a "search engine for computer security information" is just a fancy way of pretending it was anything other than what it was.
2023-03-15T11:08:34 < karlp> rustyaxe: so, what tools do you use for swdev?
2023-03-15T11:08:56 < rustyaxe> karlp: joe, gnu make, gcc, and friends
2023-03-15T11:09:05 < qyx> j-what?
2023-03-15T11:09:07 < qyx> really?
2023-03-15T11:09:32 < karlp> joe is an evolution of jed? long dark fork from vi wasn't it?
2023-03-15T11:10:04 < rustyaxe> i dont think so
2023-03-15T11:10:13 < karlp> oh no, it's more in the emacs camp.
2023-03-15T11:10:47 < rustyaxe> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe%27s_Own_Editor
2023-03-15T11:11:10 < rustyaxe> more like wordstar that understands most programming languages
2023-03-15T11:11:32 < qyx> wordstar..
2023-03-15T11:11:40 < rustyaxe> yes what i used on CP/M
2023-03-15T11:11:54 < rustyaxe> before i came to unix in the 90s
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2023-03-15T11:13:33 < PaulFertser> Better than nano
2023-03-15T11:14:24 < qyx> I used micro a bit
2023-03-15T11:14:31 < rustyaxe> nano is an abomation. a clone of that vile pine i met when i first come to unix... *vomits*
2023-03-15T11:15:56 < rustyaxe> joe just worked and had familiar keybindings to the ones i learned in childlife, so i can operate it immensely faster than other editors. its pretty much instinctive after 30 years ;)
2023-03-15T11:17:21 < rustyaxe> Speaking of, i need to send Joe a gift card for beer, for all the beers his software has earned me over the years
2023-03-15T11:31:16 < ventYl> nano was good for writing e-mails at best
2023-03-15T11:35:04 < rustyaxe> no nano was literally uselss due to ^K keybinding
2023-03-15T11:35:14 < rustyaxe> the holy editor uses ^K as the command prefix ;)
2023-03-15T11:35:35 < rustyaxe> so i was constantly deleting lines trying to invoke advanced features pine/nano lacked :P
2023-03-15T11:37:56 < jpa-> then just press ^U and you get the lines back
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2023-03-15T13:37:52 < Steffanx-> You are just old rustyaxe. When i started using lunix it was either vi or nano. And all tutorials said: use nano when you're dumb. So i used nano 
2023-03-15T13:38:06 < Steffanx-> I don't even know joe or whatever was hot before all this
2023-03-15T13:44:54 < zyp> I used to use nano, but now I'm at the point where I get confused when I'm using a computer that defaults to that
2023-03-15T13:45:29 < BrainDamage> export EDITOR=whatever
2023-03-15T13:45:36 < ventYl> I got positive feedback to my interview from candidate. See Steffanx- ? I am no furher
2023-03-15T13:47:43 < Steffanx-> Positive feedback for refusing him/her?
2023-03-15T13:50:30 < ventYl> it states that he liked that he learned something new, so he wasn't someone with stellar performance
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2023-03-15T14:41:17 < jpa-> ventYl: or he recognized that you were a lost cause and decided to not burn any bridges with negative feedback :)
2023-03-15T14:44:06 < ventYl> that would be of no effect to him as that feedback was received almost two weeks after the interview
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2023-03-15T17:35:37 < qyx> jbo: how are your new batteries?
2023-03-15T17:35:42 < qyx> I'll order some more
2023-03-15T17:41:36 < jpa-> jbo: why did you sell your bank to saudis?
2023-03-15T17:41:48 < karlp> for the gold...
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2023-03-15T18:12:50 < jbo> qyx, good experiences so far
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2023-03-15T18:51:29 < Steffanx-> I think jbo no longer wanted the Dutch gold. Too many complaints from a certain dutchy.
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2023-03-15T19:05:08 < Posterdati> soved!
2023-03-15T19:05:11 < Posterdati> solved!
2023-03-15T19:05:38 < qyx> jbo: are yours 25 Ah?
2023-03-15T19:06:10 < jbo> qyx, 15Ah
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2023-03-15T19:07:37 < qyx> oh
2023-03-15T19:08:24 < jbo> does that influence your order in any way? :D
2023-03-15T19:09:20 < qyx> yes if yours catched fire by any chave, of course
2023-03-15T19:09:29 < qyx> *chance
2023-03-15T19:09:29 < jbo> they did not
2023-03-15T19:09:40 < qyx> and do they swell?
2023-03-15T19:10:06 < qyx> I don't have any of that exact new yellow type
2023-03-15T19:10:13 < jbo> not as much as I got to expect after talking to you. but they are currently at the customer's site so no idea
2023-03-15T19:10:16 < qyx> only older ones, green
2023-03-15T19:10:42 < jbo> they increased thickness a tiny bit, but not as much as we talked about.
2023-03-15T19:11:13 < jbo> the nominal 20mm height became like 21mm at worst. but I didn't use them for anything high-current.
2023-03-15T19:12:28 < jbo> I'm right now considereding for another project where I should again build a 4S pack and step-down or whether I should just go for one beefy cell and have a step-up instead.
2023-03-15T19:15:58 < qyx> I would do 1S if only low power output is required
2023-03-15T19:16:12 < jbo> 3.3V to power an STMP157
2023-03-15T19:17:03 < jbo> potentially need 5V for some LTE modem but not sure yet.
2023-03-15T19:17:08 < jbo> certainly don't need anything >5V
2023-03-15T19:17:55 < jbo> but the cell has a nominal voltage of 3.65V so a single-cell booster to 3.3V won't work I guess
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2023-03-15T19:23:18 < machinehum> catphish: What price do you normally see?
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2023-03-15T19:31:54 < karlp> Posterdati: it's good form to say what your solution was so people can help again next time something similar was...
2023-03-15T19:32:34 < karlp> what lte modems run on 5V? most of the ones I looked at run on 3.8, as they're designed to be running on liion anyway?
2023-03-15T19:33:11 < jbo> still in the very early design phase. mainly looking for components. The 5V was more of an expetancy than anything else.
2023-03-15T19:33:23 < karlp> with 5V you can do anything :)
2023-03-15T19:33:45 < jbo> hence my statement of not needing anything >5V :p
2023-03-15T19:33:53 < qyx> lte cannot run directly off lifepo4 because of 3v3 uvlo
2023-03-15T19:34:15 < qyx> I would boost to 3.6 V
2023-03-15T19:35:04 < qyx> and don't deep diacharge/charge full swing 2.5-3.65, do 3.0-3.5 or 3.55 max
2023-03-15T19:35:10 < qyx> for long term cycling
2023-03-15T19:37:35 < jbo> why 3.6V specifically?
2023-03-15T19:37:48 < jbo> nah, this is a device that just needs to run for 90 days straight
2023-03-15T19:37:57 < jbo> long term battery degredation is not a primary concern.
2023-03-15T19:39:06 < qyx> because it is higher than max Vbat and at the sametime high emough to trigger uvlo when under peak load and at the same time not too high
2023-03-15T19:39:19 < qyx> *not to trigger
2023-03-15T19:39:47 < Posterdati> karlp: ok, I'm developing a simple mutex mechanism on stm32f767zi
2023-03-15T19:40:07 < Posterdati> karlp: to start I copied a code I wrote for stm32f4
2023-03-15T19:40:21 < Posterdati> karlp: which lack mpu
2023-03-15T19:41:00 < Posterdati> karlp: the simple mechanism is using ldrex/strex one byte wide
2023-03-15T19:41:48 < Posterdati> karlp: I've got two issues: mpu was enabled and the code was executed in privileged mode, so as far I enable the mpu, the cpu crashed
2023-03-15T19:43:25 < Posterdati> I set mpu CTRL.PRIVDEFENA = 1
2023-03-15T19:44:13 < Posterdati> then, on m7s strex rx, ry, [rz] should be rx != rz and rx != rz
2023-03-15T19:44:22 < Posterdati> my inline asm was faulty
2023-03-15T19:45:42 < Posterdati> https://paste.debian.net/1274128/
2023-03-15T19:46:09 < Posterdati> I changed the lock memory to DTCM, so a RAM memory with normal type
2023-03-15T19:52:40 < Posterdati> karlp: the f4 is a complex mcu, m7 an h7 are more :)
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2023-03-15T23:36:33 < zyp> jbo, why jump straight from 1S to 4S?
2023-03-15T23:36:48 < zyp> I'd consider 2S since you still get simple chargers with built in balancing for 2S
2023-03-15T23:40:06 < jbo> zyp, jup, still looking around
2023-03-15T23:40:15 < jbo> any specific part recommendations? 
2023-03-15T23:41:29 < zyp> I've never used any, but a quick google search suggests e.g. MP2672A
2023-03-15T23:42:00 < zyp> I seem to recall TI had something too, but I couldn't find it
2023-03-15T23:42:44 < zyp> that MPS part is a boost charger so it'll charge from 5V USB
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--- Day changed to maalis 16 2023
2023-03-16T00:06:23 < jbo> don't need a charger tho :p
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2023-03-16T00:14:45 < zyp> no? then the question is either «what's the point of requiring an external charger to charge the batteries?» or «why would you even use rechargeable batteries if you're never gonna charge them?»
2023-03-16T00:17:44 < zyp> this is 2023, I'd say that pretty much anything with rechargeable batteries and a charge power of <= 100W or so ought to be USB chargeable
2023-03-16T00:17:47 < qyx> cough cough, replaceable rechargeable batteries
2023-03-16T00:18:13 < zyp> replaceable rechargable batteries should still be USB chargable
2023-03-16T00:19:03 < zyp> one of my bluetooth headsets have replaceable batteries that got a little usb port in the battery itself
2023-03-16T00:19:40 < zyp> so I can either plug the charging cable in the battery while it's in the headset, or I can swap an empty battery for a full one and just charge the empty battery alone
2023-03-16T00:19:48 < qyx> I am not going to object but show me a device in the hand tool or datalogging realm having a usb chargeable rechargeable replaceable batteries
2023-03-16T00:20:11 < qyx> do you usb charge your accu screwdriver?
2023-03-16T00:21:59 < zyp> you know, that'd be pretty damn convenient
2023-03-16T00:24:30 < zyp> there's no reason e.g. makita couldn't add a usb-c pd charge port to the battery packs
2023-03-16T00:25:35 < zyp> like this: https://gizmodo.com/ryobi-power-tool-batteries-usb-charge-1848432615
2023-03-16T00:26:57 < zyp> that's an order of magnitude smaller than the ones I'm thinking of, but with PD the thing scales
2023-03-16T00:28:40 < zyp> I've got a USB powerbank with 65W PD charging, and when you can stick it in a powerbank, there's no reason you couldn't stick it in a power tool battery
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2023-03-16T00:51:36 < qyx> zyp: re tdk, Y has a temperature-dependent offset while X has a temperature-derivative-dependent offset
2023-03-16T00:51:52 < qyx> hwich is.. interesting
2023-03-16T00:57:02 < machinehum> Has anyone implemented USB-C PD from the charger side?
2023-03-16T00:57:37 < machinehum> PMICs that do this are... of course... not in stock
2023-03-16T01:00:00 < zyp> sounds hard to compete with off the shelf chargers
2023-03-16T01:01:29 < zyp> if you're gonna build something special purpose, it could make sense to use a mcu to do the comms and control (e.g. stm32g0 with built in UCPD peripheral)
2023-03-16T01:01:42 < zyp> then you just need some sort of controllable reg
2023-03-16T01:02:29 < zyp> if you're gonna do something multiport, probably AC/DC to some >20V common bus, and then a configurable buck per port
2023-03-16T01:02:42 < machinehum> hmm
2023-03-16T01:03:11 < machinehum> Yeah I'm not trying to compete with off the shell shit client is just like "Can we put a USB-C port on it"?
2023-03-16T01:03:28 < zyp> on what?
2023-03-16T01:03:35 < machinehum> It's a 12V UPS
2023-03-16T01:04:03 < zyp> so effectively a PD powerbank? :p
2023-03-16T01:04:50 < zyp> there's single chip solutions for PD powerbanks, does comms, PD input regulation for charging and PD output regulation
2023-03-16T01:06:21 < zyp> e.g. https://www.richtek.com/Products/USB%20PD%20IF/USB%20Type-C%20and%20Power%20Delivery/RT7885
2023-03-16T01:07:30 < machinehum> Can you buy that anywhere
2023-03-16T01:07:55 < zyp> for just PD out, from a DC bus, they've got shit like this: https://www.richtek.com/Products/USB%20PD%20IF/USB%20Type-C%20and%20Power%20Delivery/RTQ7881-QT
2023-03-16T01:09:37 < zyp> idk about availability, I suspect a bunch of that shit don't make it to the regular distributors
2023-03-16T01:09:48 < machinehum> Yeah
2023-03-16T01:10:10 < zyp> but with the right connections you probably could
2023-03-16T01:11:03 < machinehum> Whenever I see nothing on digikey or mouser I get sad becasue that means dealing with people that don't want do deal with you unless you're buying like 100k parts
2023-03-16T01:11:17 < machinehum> And guess who doesn't work for the Zuk anymore
2023-03-16T01:11:23 < machinehum> <---
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2023-03-16T05:46:20 < machinehum> It doesn't seem like anyone makes a decent open source datalogger
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2023-03-16T08:58:06 < qyx> machinehum: what for?
2023-03-16T08:58:25 < qyx> I am half way there
2023-03-16T09:44:54 < qyx> rewriting power management code is always fun
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2023-03-16T10:59:51 < qyx> why freertos, apparently I cannot simply skip entering low power mode if I am called to do so
2023-03-16T10:59:56 < qyx> despite they are telling the opposite
2023-03-16T11:01:35 < jpa-> i expect it will just call your "wait for interrupt" routine again and again if you skip it
2023-03-16T11:01:37 < jpa-> which is fine?
2023-03-16T11:03:21 < qyx> I can't really find out what it does, but it doesn't work (tm)
2023-03-16T11:03:44 < qyx> the problem I am challenging is that I use LPTIM1 for waking u
2023-03-16T11:04:01 < qyx> if I set it up in vPortSetupTimerInterrupt, everything is okay
2023-03-16T11:04:32 < qyx> but if I pospone it and set it up after boot when the power management is started, it obviously doesn't work
2023-03-16T11:05:00 < qyx> because the scheduler calls portSUPPRESS_TICKS_AND_SLEEP before the timer is running and hence it cannot wake up the mcu
2023-03-16T11:05:21 < qyx> that's still okay
2023-03-16T11:05:46 < qyx> so I check if (pm_ok == false) return; in portSUPPRESS_TICKS_AND_SLEEP
2023-03-16T11:05:53 < qyx> and that's the thing it doesn't like
2023-03-16T11:07:05 < qyx> now I have a working code, I simply put return; at the beginning of portSUPPRESS_TICKS_AND_SLEEP and see what happens
2023-03-16T11:08:10 < qyx> yeah it fails
2023-03-16T11:08:34 < qyx> high power usage, serial ports receiving garbage, watchdog reset
2023-03-16T11:12:31 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/C0DYY
2023-03-16T11:12:48 < qyx> browsing the freertos code I cannot see any reason for that behaviour
2023-03-16T11:31:26 < zyp> if you haven't given it a reason to wake up, it's probably still stuck trying to go to sleep
2023-03-16T11:33:04 < zyp> it shouldn't call that function before it runs out of work to do, and if you just return without giving it more work, what do you expect it to do?
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2023-03-16T12:48:13 < karlp> I think "decent" is the definition problem for you machinehum, lots of open source data loggers are decent for their operators, but obviously not what _you_ desired
2023-03-16T12:48:58 < karlp> qyx: did you write you rown lptim tickless sleep thing?
2023-03-16T12:49:22 < karlp> I had someone's I found on ze internet for l4 working nicely on WB,
2023-03-16T12:50:44 < qyx> yeah I did in the past
2023-03-16T12:51:57 < qyx> hm how do you document quirks in doxygen/javadoc?
2023-03-16T12:52:14 < qyx> is there a tag to mark workaround code?
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2023-03-16T13:01:53 < karlp> what?
2023-03-16T13:02:04 < karlp> I don't get what you want to be done?
2023-03-16T13:03:03 < qyx> if there is a code implementing a workaround, possibly a temporary one, I would like to mark it as such
2023-03-16T13:03:11 < qyx> probably @todo fits
2023-03-16T13:04:26 < ventYl> @todo or @warning
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2023-03-16T13:32:43 < karlp> ok, I can totally understand how people fuck up CC detection and flipping
2023-03-16T13:35:10 < karlp> who knew that the height of a microsd cage was a pressure point, and that I needed to GO LOWER!
2023-03-16T13:38:43 < jpa-> huh?
2023-03-16T13:41:18 < karlp> GCT mailouts advertising the thinnest microsd cage on the market
2023-03-16T13:41:34 < karlp> I didn't really think that was a major fighting point to have the thinnest.
2023-03-16T13:41:49 < jpa-> ah, so it wasn't related to CC detection :D
2023-03-16T13:41:58 < karlp> no,  :)
2023-03-16T13:42:00 < karlp> sorry.
2023-03-16T13:50:11 < zyp> so what's up with CC detection and flipping?
2023-03-16T13:50:26 < karlp> oh, just had to run through all the testing again.
2023-03-16T13:50:52 < karlp> I have this dongle to do rs485->usb-c+sbu, and on the first version I didn't have switches at that end,
2023-03-16T13:50:54 < zyp> and how do people fuck it up? most usb-c fuckups I've seen have been devices sharing one pulldown for CC1 and CC2
2023-03-16T13:51:23 < karlp> so now devices have upstream switches, downstream switches, and the interface dongle has switches,
2023-03-16T13:51:42 < karlp> and when i got the right polarity for the CC upstream -> switch direction right
2023-03-16T13:51:49 < karlp> it all works all the way down the chain again.
2023-03-16T13:52:12 < karlp> but there were combinations where the "wrong" polarity would cancel out for some nodes with some cable orientations
2023-03-16T13:52:46 < karlp> but now it's all good, I just had to do a lot of cable plugging to make sure
2023-03-16T13:53:52 < karlp> first versions only supporte dreversible cables on one side, the other side had to be the "right" orientation.
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2023-03-16T14:20:16 < ventYl> Regular price: 210 EUR
2023-03-16T14:20:18 < ventYl> Save: -47 EUR (22 %) 
2023-03-16T14:20:25 < ventYl> 257 EUR 
2023-03-16T14:20:26 < ventYl> :>
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2023-03-16T14:33:05 < Steffanx-> Good deal 
2023-03-16T15:03:55 < karlp> qyx: just drop this in for your bridge sensors? https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/reference-designs/circuits-from-the-lab/cn0582.html
2023-03-16T15:05:37 < qyx> that's for iepe and not very low power
2023-03-16T15:24:56 < qyx> re atomics, any idea on how to find first zero, flip it and return?
2023-03-16T15:27:30 < ventYl> X xor 1 ^ (clz X) and goodbye?
2023-03-16T15:27:43 < ventYl> ee 1 << (clz X)
2023-03-16T15:28:58 < qyx> but that's not atomic
2023-03-16T15:29:38 < qyx> I need to get one bit from a uint32_t bitmap atomically
2023-03-16T15:29:43 < qyx> *get and set
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2023-03-16T15:55:15 < jpa-> heh, now i got the microsd spam also
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2023-03-16T16:01:13 < jpa-> qyx: https://godbolt.org/z/eK6zc7rjK  portable way is probably this, but i think it's probably not the most efficient
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2023-03-16T17:00:58 < jbo> kicad question: if I create a symbol & footprint for some off-the-shelf module which consists of two 2x20 headers, my plan would be to create one symbol with two units. each unit would be one of the 2x20 connectors with pins labeled 1 through 40. However, I fail to locate an option in the symbol creator to have separate "footprints" for each connector. How would one usually go about this? Is there any better option rather than creating the symbol with the two units 
2023-03-16T17:00:58 < jbo> and one footprint and then taking care of properly alining/spacing those two footprints on the PCB itself?
2023-03-16T17:05:44 < karlp> I made multiple schematic symbols, with corresponding footprints, and included a user layer in the footprint to align them.
2023-03-16T17:06:01 < karlp> that gave me the advantage of automatically getting one bom line item for each of the mating connectors as well.
2023-03-16T17:06:19 < karlp> even though in a perfect world it would be multiple bom line items attached to the single perfect footprint
2023-03-16T17:06:37 < jbo> so you have multiple footprints and in each footprint you have some "helper" in the user layer - but that is the same one for each footprint?
2023-03-16T17:07:35 < karlp> like this: https://imgur.com/a/gtPBIss
2023-03-16T17:07:41 < karlp> yeah.
2023-03-16T17:09:50 < jbo> that is reasonable
2023-03-16T17:09:51 < karlp> I originally had that as one footprint, with one sch symol with mutliple units, but the 3d modelling and bom line items were just tedious to resolve all the time, so I just split it like this, 
2023-03-16T17:10:01 < karlp> you'll always "do the right thing" and use them all anyway.
2023-03-16T17:10:27 < jbo> getting that detailed user layer you have there is most likely going to be a pain tho
2023-03-16T17:10:43 < karlp> oh, you don't need that much
2023-03-16T17:10:45 < jpa-> if you are going to lay it out once, why bother with such alignment aid
2023-03-16T17:10:51 < karlp> taht just came for free from some other stuff
2023-03-16T17:10:56 < jpa-> just measure the header distance
2023-03-16T17:10:59 < karlp> you just have a little circle/cross in the middle is enough
2023-03-16T17:11:26 < karlp> I just line up the middle bits and it's done.
2023-03-16T17:11:29 < jbo> karlp, why not just having separate stand-alone header footprints (and symbols) and that alignment guide as a completely standalone entity?
2023-03-16T17:11:55 < karlp> because this way I just place them all at the same x,y position and they're automatically in the right place.
2023-03-16T17:12:24 < karlp> the alignment layer is just a nicety
2023-03-16T17:12:59 < jbo> hmm. this makes sense. thanks for sharing. not sure if I want to go through the efforts of doing that vs. just what jpa- suggested. but I feel like this is not really that much extra effort.
2023-03-16T17:13:00 < karlp> if you have just headers, they'll be locally centered, not offset like you can see mine are.
2023-03-16T17:13:23 < karlp> my way just does jpa's once. you put them in the right distances in the footprint pieces.
2023-03-16T17:13:32 < karlp> I'm not a huge fan of this, but the other methods were worse?
2023-03-16T17:13:48 < jbo> yeah. I currently have no plans of ever using that module again but if I have to do it anyway in either case I might just do it in a reusable manner I guess
2023-03-16T17:14:26 < karlp> the _only_ real reason I ended up with this wsa becauuse bom generation only picks out one part per item, at least as far as I was finding easily
2023-03-16T17:14:51 < karlp> so with only one sch symbol I just got one line item, instead of the four I needed, 3 connectors and the module itself
2023-03-16T17:15:24 < jbo> so you also have three separate symbols (one for each header) but specifically for that module, rather than "generic" header symbols?
2023-03-16T17:16:41 < jbo> i.e. you have _UnitA, _UnitB and _UnitC as separate symbols?
2023-03-16T17:20:39 < karlp> correct.
2023-03-16T17:20:46 < jbo> alright, thank you Sir
2023-03-16T17:21:14 < karlp> also unit_m which has zero sch symbols, but has a footprint which has zero pads, but has a 3d model at the right height and orientation for the module itself.
2023-03-16T17:21:33 < karlp> again, that gives me 3d shits nicely and bom line items nicely, but it of course doesn't feel "right"
2023-03-16T17:21:38 < karlp> there may be other methods :)
2023-03-16T17:22:10 < jbo> this should be good enough for the girls I go out with
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2023-03-16T17:23:34 < karlp> an interesting phrasing, but sure?
2023-03-16T18:01:06 < machinehum> qyx: You're making a datalogger?
2023-03-16T18:01:39 < machinehum> Well.... all I want is a esp32 board with exposed headers, ntc onboard or termocouple connectors
2023-03-16T18:01:46 < machinehum> 18650 cell with BMS
2023-03-16T18:01:55 < machinehum> SD card slot
2023-03-16T18:02:07 < machinehum> Log some data
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2023-03-16T18:27:53 < jpa-> #pragma pack(1) is such a fun thing to put into a header without restoring previous state
2023-03-16T18:28:52 < karlp> lel
2023-03-16T18:30:45 < jbo> hah
2023-03-16T18:32:48 < rajkosto> does that even work or do you get a nice cpu exception accessing ints not on 4-byte boundaries etc
2023-03-16T18:40:09 < karlp> depends. 
2023-03-16T18:40:44 < karlp> cortexm3+ will normally just "do the right thing" but a bit slower, but dependingo n what they were packing, you might be looking at unexpected byte offesets for wire formats and so on.
2023-03-16T18:41:02 < karlp> cortexm0 iirc, will either give you an exception or bad data, depending on vendor impl, but I can't remember entirely.
2023-03-16T18:41:11 < rajkosto> yeah thats what i remember
2023-03-16T18:43:19 < karlp> given my knowledge of what jpa's workign on, I uspect they ended up looking at binary data structures in the wrong places and exploding merrily in other ways
2023-03-16T18:44:54 < qyx> machinehum: there are temperarure dataloggers for a few bucks
2023-03-16T18:45:41 < qyx> if not, a PXI chassis, PXI NI controller and a 4 input bridge module will do
2023-03-16T18:46:19 < qyx> I guess $15000 should be sufficient
2023-03-16T18:48:42 < jpa-> yeah, structs being incompatible between different .c files
2023-03-16T18:49:05 < zyp> fun
2023-03-16T18:49:24 < zyp> also, fuck stateful shit like that
2023-03-16T18:49:48 < karlp> this shit is pretty common machinehum https://usbtemp.com/
2023-03-16T18:50:09 < fenugrec> I know for a fact stm32F0 will hardfault on unaligned access P )
2023-03-16T18:54:41 < jpa-> sure, all cortex-m0 do
2023-03-16T18:55:11 < jpa-> but if the compiler packs a struct, it also emits byte-sized access instructions on cortex-m0
2023-03-16T19:56:12 < qyx> jpa-: yeah I was reading about those builtins and atomic exchange but I wasn't able to make up the rest
2023-03-16T19:56:22 < qyx> I need to think about it a bit
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2023-03-16T20:19:47 < mawk> do you know a lot about SIM cards qyx
2023-03-16T20:19:55 < mawk> I want to access some of the files stored on it
2023-03-16T20:20:14 < mawk> my ublox modules provides a passthrough interface to the SIM 
2023-03-16T20:20:25 < mawk> but the documentation for that is unreadable 
2023-03-16T20:20:41 < mawk> it's like 10 different documents that each refer to each other
2023-03-16T20:24:16 < mawk> all the 3GPP specs
2023-03-16T20:25:09 < mawk> I was able to read a few simple files
2023-03-16T20:25:23 < mawk> but not the one I was (EF_HPLMNwACT)
2023-03-16T20:25:37 < mawk> I want*
2023-03-16T20:25:52 < mawk> I want the HPLMN list built into the card
2023-03-16T20:41:39 < machinehum> karlp: qyx coo
2023-03-16T20:41:56 < machinehum> I mean like... an open source thing, with headers, can be powered by a battery
2023-03-16T20:42:15 < machinehum> Like lets say I want to strap a small device to the side of my bike and measure ... something
2023-03-16T20:42:29 < machinehum> Little app that reads data off it over BT
2023-03-16T20:42:36 < machinehum> You would think someone would have made something like that
2023-03-16T20:42:58 < machinehum> I wonder with WiFi disables how the esp32 does power wise with just BT
2023-03-16T20:43:02 < machinehum> disabled*
2023-03-16T20:43:41 < Steffanx-> I recall it cannot do that
2023-03-16T20:44:05 < Steffanx-> It cannot do just ble. 
2023-03-16T20:44:11 < machinehum> Oh
2023-03-16T20:46:09 < Steffanx-> So just zephyr something together on an nrf :P
2023-03-16T20:46:26 < machinehum> You could sell a BT only device (nRF52), lasts months on an 18650. Or a BT+WiFi lasting days with an ESP32 
2023-03-16T20:46:43 < machinehum> Same hardware just pop a different chip
2023-03-16T20:47:00 < Steffanx-> And nRF53 for more fanciness 
2023-03-16T20:47:07 < machinehum> Yeah
2023-03-16T20:47:14 < machinehum> Is the 52/53 pin for pin?
2023-03-16T20:47:25 < Steffanx-> Or go mobile with nRF91 
2023-03-16T20:47:55 < Steffanx-> It's completely different device. 
2023-03-16T20:48:35 < Steffanx-> With an errata just as wonderful as nRF52's errata 
2023-03-16T20:49:16 < Steffanx-> "Don't use qspi, it'll affect the radio performance"- wonderfulness 
2023-03-16T20:49:17 < machinehum> Yeah LTE would be cool as well
2023-03-16T20:49:26 < machinehum> lol
2023-03-16T20:49:39 < Steffanx-> I mean nRF53's errata 
2023-03-16T20:49:57 < machinehum> Oh
2023-03-16T20:50:06 < machinehum> You think they would fix a bunch of that stuff
2023-03-16T20:50:14 < machinehum> I guess the 52 didn't have qspi
2023-03-16T20:51:12 < Steffanx-> It does have it and works fine
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2023-03-16T21:00:01 < qyx> machinehum: no because nobody uses such things
2023-03-16T21:00:17 < qyx> makers usually arduino something up, they have frameworks for that
2023-03-16T21:00:40 < qyx> and no pro hardware contains pin headers to mess with it
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2023-03-16T21:07:16 < machinehum> Steffanx-: oh
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2023-03-16T21:07:21 < machinehum> hah
2023-03-16T21:07:44 < machinehum> qyx: hmmmmm
2023-03-16T21:08:44 < mawk> kikix
2023-03-16T21:08:47 < mawk> qyqyx
2023-03-16T21:09:37 < machinehum> I mean what if it's a standard header and I sold a bunch of different sensors
2023-03-16T21:09:47 < machinehum> That just plug in
2023-03-16T21:10:01 < machinehum> And you open an app
2023-03-16T21:10:03 < machinehum> connected
2023-03-16T21:10:08 < machinehum> data
2023-03-16T21:10:31 < mawk> there are "ecosystems" like that
2023-03-16T21:10:37 < machinehum> Like what
2023-03-16T21:10:38 < mawk> like grove or whatever
2023-03-16T21:10:56 < mawk> standard connectors in which you plug in quick little boards
2023-03-16T21:11:26 < machinehum> And there's a readymade app that connects to a lower power thing that has BMS and everything all built in?
2023-03-16T21:11:40 < machinehum> grove is just Arduino that plugs together
2023-03-16T21:12:12 < machinehum> Like I know this dude that has his own distillery, he's like I want to measure flow and temperature and get the values on my phone
2023-03-16T21:13:20 < machinehum> This would be somewhere in between an Arduino and pro hardware thing
2023-03-16T21:13:27 < machinehum> idk maybe it's a stupid idea
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2023-03-16T21:29:32 < qyx> this would be maybe 2 or 3 on a scale 1-10 of proness
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2023-03-16T22:30:10 < machinehum> Fine I wont build it
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2023-03-16T22:50:09 < Steffanx-> Don't you like qyx enthusiasm, machinehum ?
2023-03-16T22:50:18 < Steffanx-> +'s
2023-03-16T22:57:40 < machinehum> Love it
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2023-03-17T12:07:03 < karlp> machinehum: I guarantee there have been hundreds, but none of them will do it the way you think it should have been done.
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2023-03-17T15:19:37 < mawk> I was able to talk a bit with my sim card
2023-03-17T15:19:45 < mawk> these ETSI/3GPP specs are really annoying 
2023-03-17T15:20:44 < karlp> at least you can just get them :)
2023-03-17T15:20:51 < mawk> "this command is described in 3GPP TS 31.101", then I go there and it only says "The provisions of ETSI TS 102 221 apply" and then I go there and it's again redirected to another spec
2023-03-17T15:20:55 < mawk> so annoying 
2023-03-17T15:20:58 < mawk> yeah
2023-03-17T15:21:35 < mawk> and there's ublox doing its own magic on top of my SIM commands, trying to be helpful but not in a documented way
2023-03-17T15:21:51 < karlp> sounds abotu right?
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2023-03-17T15:49:42 < Steffanx-> Contact Richard, mawk . 
2023-03-17T15:51:20 < Steffanx-> Need a copy of his card?
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2023-03-17T18:46:14 < mawk> I had him on the phone yesterday Steffanx- 
2023-03-17T18:46:32 < mawk> he doesn't get the problem
2023-03-17T18:46:39 < mawk> and suggests thing I already tried on day 1
2023-03-17T18:46:49 < mawk> as usual
2023-03-17T18:47:00 < Steffanx-> Hah.
2023-03-17T18:47:04 < mawk> but he said he will escalate to ublox
2023-03-17T18:47:31 < mawk> we have the module locking up for no good reason, only on some batch of sim cards from vodafone
2023-03-17T18:47:36 < mawk> and not on other sims or older vf sims
2023-03-17T18:48:17 < mawk> and locking up as in not even the RESET pin can unlock them
2023-03-17T18:48:46 < mawk> the last thing the modules say is "+UPSMR: 1" which means "I'm in deep sleep"
2023-03-17T18:49:17 < mawk> but when they're locked up they're not in deep sleep anymore, they draw 23mA which drains our battery very quickly 
2023-03-17T18:50:30 < mawk> I'm trying to clear the PLMN list which contains random networks from all around the world and slows down the registration process
2023-03-17T18:50:50 < mawk> but the ublox module tries to be "helpful" and repopulates the list constantly
2023-03-17T18:51:19 < mawk> it repopulates the list from the operator PLMN list, which is read-only in the sim card data
2023-03-17T18:51:39 < mawk> you need a special key from Vodafone to edit it and they probably won't give it to me
2023-03-17T18:51:52 < mawk> and it's pushed OTA anyway
2023-03-17T19:05:07 < octorian> In the process of updating a project...  Seems like the particular STM32 that I'm using is still hard to get.  Only good stock seems to be at WinSource and a bit less stock at LCSC, with the more usual vendors (Mouser/Digi-Key/Newark) having nothing.
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2023-03-17T19:05:57 < octorian> Wondering if I should cross my fingers and/or horde enough from LCSC (assuming its legit, given that their prices are quite a bit cheaper than the rest), or if I should just seriously look into an alternative.  (of which there aren't many great choices)
2023-03-17T19:07:09 < jpa-> the STM32s my clients have bought from LCSC have been legit so far - i've been wondering also how they manage to get stock
2023-03-17T19:07:34 < octorian> I've bought from LCSC too.  Was just surprised at their pricing for this particular part.
2023-03-17T19:07:47 < octorian> Octopart also shows a long tail of shady brokers /w stock, but I feel like I should avoid those.
2023-03-17T19:08:16 < jpa-> also ridiculous how ST hasn't been able to fix the supply issues, considering it has been going on for years now
2023-03-17T19:08:39 < octorian> Yeah, seems like supply issues on everything else have been clearing up.
2023-03-17T19:09:03 < octorian> The board is also using an ST I2C EEPROM, which is also out of stock everywhere.  Thankfully that's one part where OnSemi and Rohm have drop-in alternatives.
2023-03-17T19:10:37 < jpa-> plenty of other supply issues, but ST seems to be one of the few where the entire product portfolio is affected severely enough that it will affect chip choices for years to come
2023-03-17T19:12:43 < octorian> And the pricing very much has a "We know you need this, don't have a choice, so we're going to charge as much as we can" vibe to it.
2023-03-17T19:14:45 < octorian> Meanwhile, ST seems to be eagerly coming out with new product lines for specific markets, but none of them feel like general purpose MCUs.
2023-03-17T19:15:55 < jpa-> yeah, would be much more useful if they picked a few of their best MCUs from each series, and made sure they would have good availability
2023-03-17T19:17:03 < octorian> I'm currently using an STM32F411RE for this project, and its still probably the best fit.  But seems too hard to get.
2023-03-17T19:18:06 < octorian> I want the Flash and RAM and digital I/O capabilities, but don't really care about low-power or analog features.
2023-03-17T19:18:47 < jpa-> stm32f401 might be somewhat close
2023-03-17T19:21:20 < octorian> Yeah, the STM32F401RET looks similar.  Slightly lower clock, slightly less RAM, but otherwise may be good enough.  Really just need to figure out how to do a side-by-side comparison.
2023-03-17T19:21:53 < octorian> (and both Mouser and Digi-Key have stock, with Mouser having a lot...  that's a huge plus)
2023-03-17T19:29:15 < octorian> I hate having to flip between PDFs that are almost identical, but were generated with *slightly* different alignments, to figure this stuff out.
2023-03-17T19:30:05 < octorian> Only other difference jumping out at me is the F411 has 5 SPI interfaces and the F401 has 4.
2023-03-17T19:30:28 < zyp> jpa-, looks like jlcpcb have different routines for 3d prints and pcbs, guess that's why you don't get to order them together
2023-03-17T19:30:56 < zyp> when you place a 3d print order, you don't get to pay it before they've reviewed it
2023-03-17T19:31:09 < jpa-> zyp: i complained to their customer service and they said it is because of customs (same reason why lcsc no longer ships part with jlcpcb orders)
2023-03-17T19:31:37 < jpa-> PCBs have "pay after review" as option also
2023-03-17T19:31:50 < zyp> oh
2023-03-17T19:32:45 < zyp> I did a test order yesterday: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MvyJD.png
2023-03-17T19:33:29 < octorian> Hmm...  At LCSC, the F411RET is actually cheaper than the F401RET.  (its the opposite everywhere else)
2023-03-17T19:34:23 < zyp> 411 is more capable and should cost more, probably supply and demand stuff messing with the prices
2023-03-17T19:36:23 < karlp> is that a few different materials for orbtrace cases zyp?
2023-03-17T19:38:08 < zyp> it's the testrack front panel in four different materials, and then Dave was curious how the orbtrace case would turn out in SLA, so I threw in a couple variants of that too
2023-03-17T19:38:44 < octorian> The LumenPNP motherboard seems to use a STM32F407VET, which is just as unavailable, if not more so.  And pricy too.  Makes me wonder how they manage, or if they simply secured a large supply a while back.
2023-03-17T19:39:03 < jpa-> zyp: is that shipping by postal service or how is it so cheap?
2023-03-17T19:39:14 < zyp> indeed
2023-03-17T19:39:33 < jpa-> such patience
2023-03-17T19:39:50 < octorian> Nevermind, the STM32F407VET is cheap and plentiful at LCSC :-)  (just expensive and unavailable elsewhere)
2023-03-17T19:39:55 < zyp> it's just test prints because I'm curious how it'll turn out :)
2023-03-17T19:40:56 < jpa-> i'll have to try to dig up STM32F405 somewhere so i can make electric assist for kid's bike too
2023-03-17T19:41:09 < jpa-> i doubt he'll fit into the trailer next winter anymore
2023-03-17T19:42:15 < zyp> I don't expect any of the variants to match the quality we're getting from 3dprintuk, and for the SLS prints there's not even a major price difference
2023-03-17T19:42:35 < octorian> Was trying to get this ironed out before I start fumbling in CubeMX to see if I can re-arrange the I/O pin assignments to fit in another UART.  At this point, I might as well just stick with the F411 and keep the F401 as an alternative, and maybe order a tray if I get too worried.
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2023-03-17T20:49:42 < rustyaxe> cube just broke things terribly ery time i tried it
2023-03-17T21:01:48 < octorian> I certainly keep its code generation a few layers of indirection away from my actual source tree, but it doesn't really cause any problems for me.  Its a great way to figure out the initial pin configuration, and get that boilerplate setup code in place that I can work from.
2023-03-17T21:02:43 < zyp> last I tried cube, I ran out of ram because the computer I were working on only had 16GB at the time
2023-03-17T21:03:44 < rustyaxe> i thought thats just how java works? it uses all the memory, just to make sure more javas can run :P
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2023-03-17T21:44:36 < octorian> Anyways, I think I figured out how to move things around to squeeze in that extra USART.
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2023-03-18T00:50:22 < qyx> TIL Haggard, pro kakimusiks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kTMD7Srp1IE
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2023-03-18T01:53:57 < Laurence_b> >Putin is going to jail
2023-03-18T01:54:01 < Laurence_b> cool story bor
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2023-03-18T02:24:40 < specing> I hear they're readying a cell next to Blair and Bush as we speak
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2023-03-18T17:26:22 < benishor> perhaps one near tate
2023-03-18T17:26:27 < benishor> so that he can learn a hustle or two
2023-03-18T17:37:17 < Steffanx-> Were you good friends with Tate, benishor ?
2023-03-18T17:38:03 < benishor> Steffanx-: I don't mingle with faggots
2023-03-18T17:39:27 < benishor> and I don't feel like giving those guys a lesson or two about life
2023-03-18T17:39:40 < Steffanx-> jlcpcb 3d printing... 6 dollar for some prints. 20+ for shipping and some tax. The joy.
2023-03-18T17:39:52 < benishor> wait until you order some pcbs too
2023-03-18T17:39:57 < benishor> or some assembly
2023-03-18T17:58:37 < zyp> they don't combine
2023-03-18T18:00:06 < zyp> Steffanx-, did you even see the screenshot I posted yesterday? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MvyJD.png
2023-03-18T18:01:54 < Steffanx-> i didnt see it no. $10 is alright :)
2023-03-18T18:01:59 < Steffanx-> <
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2023-03-18T19:29:30 < qyx> zyp: wait what, where?
2023-03-18T19:29:33 < qyx> so cheam, much wow
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2023-03-18T20:54:18 < zyp> qyx, jlcpcb
2023-03-18T20:54:44 < zyp> trying different stuff, so there's a mix of SLS, MJF and two SLA resins
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2023-03-18T23:48:15 < kaki> how is innovation?
2023-03-18T23:48:34 < kaki> any new innovations?
2023-03-18T23:56:01 < Steffanx-> What is innovation?
2023-03-18T23:56:44 < kaki> we have had this discussion already
2023-03-18T23:57:04 < kaki> it has been established what innovation is
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--- Day changed su maalis 19 2023
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2023-03-19T00:17:29 < Steffanx-> Lol kaki
2023-03-19T00:29:41 < BrainDamage> https://www.noulakaz.net/2007/03/18/a-regular-expression-to-check-for-prime-numbers/
2023-03-19T00:29:47 < BrainDamage> Steffanx-: during a univ academic event I had to stay and listen to a 2h talk about "what is innovation?"
2023-03-19T00:30:23 < BrainDamage> and after it ended, I was none the wiser
2023-03-19T00:30:42 < Steffanx-> Oh shit. I was just writing: so you can enlighten the kaki
2023-03-19T00:32:01 < qyx> lol
2023-03-19T00:40:23 < Steffanx-> That's some nice regular expression BrainDamage :)
2023-03-19T00:47:51 < zyp> kaki, innovating too much
2023-03-19T00:48:30 < zyp> I'm about to submit a bunch of boards to jlcpcb and I had to make a fucking excel sheet to keep track
2023-03-19T00:49:23 < kaki> next level zyp pcbs?
2023-03-19T00:49:27 < zyp> so far I've finished six, and I haven't even started on the target modules
2023-03-19T00:49:44 < kaki> some fpga stuff?
2023-03-19T00:49:58 < zyp> nope
2023-03-19T00:50:13 < zyp> the one I just finished is a new testjig board for orbtrace: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1086782289414996078/image.png
2023-03-19T00:52:09 < zyp> I got tired of plugging ribbon cables, so this one got female headers that go directly into the DUT
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2023-03-19T01:50:42 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFrVEgbXXoAA8Goh.png%3Fname%3Dsmall
2023-03-19T02:01:23 < Laurence_b> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrV_jk6X0AIHlo0?format=png&name=small
2023-03-19T02:07:23 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ2lIEkTcX0 musics 1995
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2023-03-19T02:48:28 < Laurence_b> https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=700,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/131/892/743/original/b0ce293c602225e0.png
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2023-03-19T23:00:03 < Laurence_b> sheet I'm gunna go 2 jail
2023-03-19T23:00:05 < Laurence_b> https://www.thenational.scot/news/23392348.police-plan-tackle-incel-culture-cut-violence-women/
2023-03-19T23:20:18 < Steffanx-> I dont know you Laurence_b 
2023-03-19T23:22:18 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFrgT4dmacAAmqjj.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2023-03-19T23:25:21 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFrf5bO2XwAY7sXe.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2023-03-20T00:57:29 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFrd05ysWIAAO0NW.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2023-03-20T17:18:46 < jbo> karlp, you around?
2023-03-20T17:18:58 < karlp> depends what you ask next.
2023-03-20T17:20:12 < jbo> karl, after a few days of being bed bound I'm back to creating the KiCAD module footprint. I just layed out one of the connectors 2x20 connectors. Is there a way (in the symbol editor) to "group" those 40 pads, setting an origin and moving the whole bunch to the correct place to achieve what you showed me?
2023-03-20T17:20:48 < jbo> I mean the grouping part I ofc managed to do. I am trying to figure out how to position the group reliably.
2023-03-20T17:22:09 < karlp> I'm not sure I follow, you mean in footprint editor I presume, not symbol editor?
2023-03-20T17:22:25 < jbo> yes correct, sorry.
2023-03-20T17:23:21 < karlp> so, create pad,
2023-03-20T17:23:40 < karlp> right click, create from selection->create array.
2023-03-20T17:23:49 < karlp> ctrl-a to select all, ctrl-p to move relative?
2023-03-20T17:23:55 < karlp> I'm not really sure what your stuck with.
2023-03-20T17:24:54 < jbo> ah, shift-p is what I was looking for. thank you :)
2023-03-20T17:25:06 < karlp> shift p, yeah, sorry
2023-03-20T17:25:25 < karlp> move relative is _awesome_ for lots of things.
2023-03-20T17:25:27 < jbo> so you don't group your pads?
2023-03-20T17:25:42 < karlp> there's no point inside the footprint editor, not really anyway
2023-03-20T17:25:45 < zyp> what's a group of pads?
2023-03-20T17:26:04 < karlp> I group the overlapping footprints when theyð're placed though, so make the "module" move together
2023-03-20T17:26:21 < zyp> ah
2023-03-20T17:26:35 < zyp> yeah, grouping stuff in the footprint doesn't sound very useful
2023-03-20T17:26:59 < qyx> wat grouping
2023-03-20T17:27:20 < qyx> didn't know there is such a thing
2023-03-20T17:27:23 < karlp> yeah, I'd never looked at grouping in the footprint editor either, turns out it works just like in pcb space, just.... no real reason for it :)
2023-03-20T17:27:51 < karlp> well, not _much_ anywya IMO
2023-03-20T17:28:41 < zyp> sounds like just a pre-defined multi-select, only useful if you need to multi-select some stuff many times
2023-03-20T17:30:25 < jbo> shift-p is awesome
2023-03-20T17:31:01 < zyp> yeah, I use the equivalent in altium a lot
2023-03-20T17:40:45 < jbo> I like how it retains the offset values in the GUI
2023-03-20T17:42:23 < karlp> "doing the right thing"
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2023-03-20T18:18:13 < jbo> karlp, from what I can tell my main issue is still that after creating the pad array, how do I first get the entire array to be centered around the schematic grid origin so I have a reasonable basis for shift-p afterwards.
2023-03-20T18:18:23 < jbo> is there some magic way of doing this properly?
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2023-03-20T21:55:12 < karlp> jbo: one method, use formulas, if you didn't know you could do that: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hTD72.png
2023-03-20T21:56:17 < karlp> method 2: use the footprint wizard, like SOIC or similar to generate te basic outline, 
2023-03-20T21:56:33 < karlp> there's probablyu other ways too
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2023-03-20T22:30:17 < ventYl> is pico-sdk really fucked up when it comes to exception handlers? it seems that normally, it is not possible to override stuff such as HardFault or SVC_Handler?
2023-03-20T22:33:26 < jbo> thanks karlp 
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2023-03-20T22:47:32 < Steffanx-> you're welcome jbo  
2023-03-20T22:53:36 < jbo> <3
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2023-03-21T01:19:40 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrdExQW0cs
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2023-03-21T12:00:19 < qyx> zyp: you are a hyperram pro now, do you have any idle power consumption figures yet?
2023-03-21T12:00:35 < qyx> in retention mode
2023-03-21T12:07:13 < zyp> no, I don't even have any idea how much power orbtrace consumes as a whole
2023-03-21T12:10:44 < zyp> datasheet for the ones I'm using says typical 35uA, max 230uA in «hybrid sleep»
2023-03-21T12:11:02 < zyp> or 25uA/200uA respectively for the 1.8V variant
2023-03-21T12:11:27 < zyp> for retaining the entire memory
2023-03-21T12:11:46 < zyp> you can apparently save more power by choosing to retain only half, a quarter or an eight
2023-03-21T12:12:15 < zyp> max 140uA to retain 1/8 of the 1.8V variant
2023-03-21T12:13:18 < zyp> I'm not sure how that compares to other memory technologies, but that doesn't sound awful
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2023-03-21T12:14:40 < qyx> 200 uA for the entire memory is good
2023-03-21T12:14:46 < qyx> at 1V8
2023-03-21T12:16:46 < zyp> regular standby mode (i.e. chip select deasserted is 80uA typical, 220uA max
2023-03-21T12:17:06 < zyp> ref. page 31: https://www.winbond.com/resource-files/W956x8MBYA_64Mb_HyperBus_pSRAM_TFBGA24_datasheet_A01-003_20200724.pdf
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2023-03-21T12:43:44 < qyx> yeah
2023-03-21T12:43:58 < qyx> looks manageable
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2023-03-21T15:02:25 < jbo> https://www.olimex.com/Products/SOM/STMP1/STMP157-SOM-512/resources/STMP15x-SOM.pdf
2023-03-21T15:02:29 < jbo> page 12
2023-03-21T15:02:39 < jbo> > Board dimensions are: 2.4 inch (60.96 mm) x 1.2 inch (30.48 mm).
2023-03-21T15:02:49 < jbo> drawing just above indicates total height as 1.35 inches ...
2023-03-21T15:04:49 < jpa-> well, it does have 1.2 inch line also
2023-03-21T15:05:24 < jbo> that appears to be for the center of 2x5 connector
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2023-03-21T15:15:32 < zyp> somebody had a brainfart while writing the specs
2023-03-21T15:15:58 < jbo> not great for my progress :p
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2023-03-21T15:35:13 < bitmask> hi hi
2023-03-21T15:47:07 < ventYl> I have removed one legacy piece of code and now another piece of code which wasn't even using this legacy code is complaining about float / double mismatch
2023-03-21T15:47:12 < ventYl> I hate tech debt
2023-03-21T15:50:03 < bitmask> I hate you
2023-03-21T15:50:09 < bitmask> sorry, no I don't
2023-03-21T16:22:09 < mawk> oï
2023-03-21T16:23:29 < rustyaxe> Sounds liek EUSER (814): User error, replace user and try the operation again.
2023-03-21T16:24:22 < zyp> I had some issues the other day with an old android app that didn't want to build because one of the servers it was trying to fetch dependencies from was down
2023-03-21T16:24:29 < zyp> and deprecated, apparently
2023-03-21T16:24:58 < zyp> so I tried changing to a newer dependency source, and it lacked the correct version of a given package
2023-03-21T16:26:30 < zyp> and when I tried bumping the version of that dependency, it was like a house of cards of incompatibilities that requires more packages to be upgraded, and so on
2023-03-21T16:27:04 < zyp> so I gave up and reverted back, and apparently the other server was back online or whatever because then the build succeeded
2023-03-21T16:27:39 < zyp> I hate the entirety of that shit
2023-03-21T16:28:00 < rustyaxe> ;( I hate dealing with hemmorhoid
2023-03-21T16:28:22 < rustyaxe> thank god we convinced the sales idiots that web based is the only acceptable answer
2023-03-21T16:28:56 < zyp> I'm not convinced web ecosystems are much better
2023-03-21T16:31:04 < rustyaxe> Depends how you build it. our web stuff is pretty light. It uses json to retrieve tickets and their associated stuffs. A small bit of javascript to display things in nice charts and lists
2023-03-21T16:31:12 < rustyaxe> Some things are abominations such as facebook
2023-03-21T16:31:21 < rustyaxe> 32gb of ram for an idle tab? Lol
2023-03-21T16:36:45 < ventYl> it is weird
2023-03-21T16:37:00 < ventYl> the broken piece of code is a function, which accepts three float arguments
2023-03-21T16:37:21 < ventYl> there is -Wall -Wextra -Werr, so if this function is fed with double, build will fail
2023-03-21T16:37:37 < ventYl> but for some reason, it doesn't fail, if <QString> is included
2023-03-21T16:41:28 < ventYl> it seems that this week I am sentenced to deal only with weird shit
2023-03-21T16:42:10 < ventYl> yesterday all my effort was bombed by the fact that pico-sdk is such a clusterfuck, you can't really install ISR handler from a static library
2023-03-21T16:42:20 < ventYl> it will simply silently ignore it
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2023-03-21T17:01:44 < karlp> but errmerrgerrrd, we must all use picos because they're in stock, even though it's eye bleeding to use them...?
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2023-03-21T17:06:12 < zyp> I've got a rp2040 board on my TODO list
2023-03-21T17:11:08 < rustyaxe> i just find the whole pi ecosystem meh. :P
2023-03-21T17:13:22 < ventYl> you probably won't believe what you read, but I see that CMake is somewhere around the root cause of why pico-sdk is such a clusterfuck
2023-03-21T17:13:38 < ventYl> or, very twisted way of using it
2023-03-21T17:15:57 < zyp> I'm not really planning to develop for the rp2040, but if I'm going to, I wouldn't use pico-sdk
2023-03-21T17:17:23 < ventYl> well, I've been using RP2040 as a testbed for changes in my RTOS, it is not even using pico-sdk, just some basic CMSIS headers. But it relies on a bunch of ISRs which now can't be installed unless doing crazy shit
2023-03-21T17:17:44 < ventYl> and the RTOS should be like: use whatever HAL you wish, I don't even care
2023-03-21T17:20:15 < zyp> in my case, what makes it interesting is that it's multidrop swd, which makes it a test case for handling that
2023-03-21T17:20:53 < ventYl> well, SMP and essential lack of atomics also makes it an interesting case for SMP kernel, but I am not that far yet
2023-03-21T17:20:58 < zyp> it's actually the only chip I'm aware of that does multidrop swd
2023-03-21T17:21:26 < jbo> what's multidrop SWD?
2023-03-21T17:21:30 < ventYl> what about those STM32MP1? do they have two isolated SWDs? or the Cortex-A cannot be reached via SWD?
2023-03-21T17:22:12 < zyp> you can have multicore debug without doing multidrop
2023-03-21T17:22:46 < zyp> not sure about MP1, but the dualcore H7 does multicore debug without multidrop SWD
2023-03-21T17:23:32 < zyp> so does nrf53 and some NXP multicore chip I looked at the other day
2023-03-21T17:24:25 < zyp> the thing is, multidrop SWD are some protocol extensions to allow having multiple SWD-DPs share a single SWD bus
2023-03-21T17:25:02 < zyp> i.e. there's some park and select commands
2023-03-21T17:25:11 < jbo> is this the traditional case of inventing something other than JTAG for it to be simpler, then missing JTAG features and patching them into the new design?
2023-03-21T17:26:03 < zyp> originally I though the point of multidrop SWD was to allow multiple chips on a board to share a single SWD bus
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2023-03-21T17:26:31 < zyp> but then you typically don't have a sane way to assign them addresses for the select command
2023-03-21T17:26:55 < ventYl> guy wanted to have an interview in German language
2023-03-21T17:26:57 < ventYl> how sweet
2023-03-21T17:26:58 < zyp> e.g. if you put down three identical chips, they'll default to the same address, and there's no inband address assignment
2023-03-21T17:27:24 < zyp> so it mostly seems useful for putting multiple DPs in a single chip, like rp2040 does
2023-03-21T17:27:43 < zyp> except I don't really understand the point of that
2023-03-21T17:28:17 < ventYl> maybe they got some off-the-shelf core with DP cheapo
2023-03-21T17:28:41 < ventYl> or whoever integrated it (broadcom?) wasn't able to do it any other way
2023-03-21T17:28:48 < zyp> the DP is a sort of IO bridge that gives you a way to issue read/write commands on an AP bus
2023-03-21T17:29:18 < zyp> and an ADIv5 DP can hook up to 256 APs
2023-03-21T17:29:46 < ventYl> could any device develop digestive problems if DP hooked more than one AP?
2023-03-21T17:30:04 < zyp> so what every other dualcore mcu seems to do (stm32h7, nrf53, etc…) is to simply give each cpu their own AP, all hooked to a single DP
2023-03-21T17:30:22 < zyp> no, switching APs is faster than switching DPs
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2023-03-21T17:31:12 < zyp> so yeah, I don't really understand the purpose of multidrop SWD at all
2023-03-21T17:32:00 < zyp> although to be fair, rp2040 have a config register to set the DP address
2023-03-21T17:32:00 < ventYl> and how peripherals are connected in case of multiple APs? via bridge?
2023-03-21T17:32:36 < zyp> what do you mean? a MEM-AP itself is just another form of bus bridge
2023-03-21T17:33:20 < zyp> IIRC stm32h7 has four APs in total
2023-03-21T17:33:41 < ventYl> I don't have sufficient insight into this, but maybe there is some ancient IP used in rp2040 which only supports one connection and multiple APs would means the periperal either has to be connected via another bridge, or can only be connected to one core. and they couldn't afford changing that IP
2023-03-21T17:34:17 < zyp> each CPU is hooked up to one, which gets the same memory view as that cpu, meaning it can touch the internal stuff like SCS/SCB/NVIC and so on
2023-03-21T17:34:28 < ventYl> which is kind of probable scenario as many peripherals inside RP2040 are actually pieces of vintage IP
2023-03-21T17:35:01 < zyp> and then there's one that hookes up to the regular memory matrix, can poke at regular memory and peripherals independent of whether the cpu domains are on or off
2023-03-21T17:35:22 < zyp> and a fourth one that only accesses some shared debug/trace infrastructure
2023-03-21T17:35:55 < zyp> anyway, for rp2040 I expect the answer was that it was the cheapest solution
2023-03-21T17:36:20 < zyp> the way I see it, rp2040 isn't a dualcore MCU, it's two singlecore MCUs glued together
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2023-03-21T17:37:33 < zyp> so I'm not really surprised it's using multidrop SWD
2023-03-21T17:37:52 < zyp> what I don't understand is why multidrop SWD was invented at all
2023-03-21T18:52:19 < jpa-> IMO pico-sdk is not really that much of a mess as ventYl is claiming
2023-03-21T18:52:53 < jpa-> the debugger situation on RP2040 is terrible though, everything i have tried errors out randomly, and none has managed such simple things as halting both cores simultaneously or resetting them both simultaneously
2023-03-21T18:56:16 < jpa-> regarding interrupt handlers in static libraries - that's something that breaks pretty easily in many build systems, because object files from static libraries are not included until some symbol is needed, and the "weak symbols in interrupt table" do not count as requests
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2023-03-21T18:58:28 < jpa-> myself i just use the runtime registration of interrupt handlers, because on rp2040 the vector table is in RAM anyway
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2023-03-21T19:17:44 < qyx> interrupt handlers are one of those things making me sad
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2023-03-21T19:18:18 < qyx> I am leaning towards the dynamic/vectors-in-SRAM approach
2023-03-21T19:20:42 < zyp> jpa-, that's because rp2040 doesn't have CTI
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2023-03-21T19:21:41 < zyp> jpa-, it simply doesn't support syncing up entry and exit from debug mode between the two cores
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2023-03-21T19:22:57 < zyp> like I said, it's two singlecore MCUs glued together
2023-03-21T19:22:59 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, i guess that is a hardware limitation
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2023-03-21T19:23:31 < zyp> if you've got them both halted and want to resume, you have to first resume one core, deselect the DP, select the other DP and resume the other core
2023-03-21T19:23:54 < jpa-> there is this register you can write from one core to halt the other
2023-03-21T19:24:06 < jpa-> so not strictly necessary to switch between DPs, but not immediate either
2023-03-21T19:24:13 < zyp> oh, kinda like a homegrown CTI?
2023-03-21T19:24:39 < zyp> hmm, just write, right
2023-03-21T19:25:01 < jpa-> it's the way they normally use to reset the other core to get code started on it
2023-03-21T19:25:25 < zyp> something worth exploring when I get there then
2023-03-21T19:25:44 < zyp> are there any current debug solutions that allows debugging both cores?
2023-03-21T19:25:54 < jpa-> i wouldn't really need it to be immediate, if the debug probe would halt it within a few microseconds it would still be much better than running into timeouts
2023-03-21T19:26:06 < zyp> true
2023-03-21T19:26:38 < jpa-> i think pyocd and openocd support debugging both cores simultaneously if you connect two gdb's and use "attach 0" and "attach 1"
2023-03-21T19:26:44 < jpa-> but i haven't tried it
2023-03-21T19:26:47 < zyp> I've got a toy debugger project where I'm planning to explore features like gdb's non-stop mode and support for multiple inferiors
2023-03-21T19:26:56 < zyp> ah
2023-03-21T19:27:53 < jpa-> biggest problem i have is with resetting - if i use hardware NRST signal for reset, it disconnects gdb for some reason - and if i don't use it, it only resets the core i'm attached to
2023-03-21T19:28:07 < zyp> I've already experimented with having multiple inferiors in a single gdb session, seems to work reasonable enough
2023-03-21T19:28:56 < zyp> but it needs non-stop mode to work sensibly
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2023-03-21T19:48:34 < jbo> I would have hoped that Quectel would just tell me which m.2 key type their module is but nope: https://www.quectel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Quectel_EC25_Series_Mini_PCIe_LTE_Standard_Specification_V2.2.pdf
2023-03-21T19:48:42 < jbo> or is that just obvious to everybody?
2023-03-21T19:49:33 < zyp> that's E
2023-03-21T19:50:00 < jbo> common knowledge?
2023-03-21T19:50:16 < zyp> no, wait, that's not M.2 at all, that's mini-pcie
2023-03-21T19:50:24 < jpa-> you can always just cram B slot upside down to M-slot
2023-03-21T19:50:43 < jbo> oh
2023-03-21T19:51:34 < jbo> I guess assuming that mini-pcie is physically the same as m.2 is a mistake.
2023-03-21T19:51:42 < zyp> it's absolutely not
2023-03-21T19:51:46 < zyp> m.2 is way smaller
2023-03-21T19:52:44 < zyp> small enough you can fit a m.2 on a minipcie adapter: https://img1-327a.kxcdn.com/DataImage.ashx/9532718/500/271
2023-03-21T19:53:48 < jbo> indeed
2023-03-21T19:55:06 < jbo> thanks! :)
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2023-03-21T20:38:45 < PhantomWork> hi there, I need some help on the stm32f103, trying to receive a CAN message, via the cubeide debugger I can see that the data is present in the registers, but it do not trigger an interrupt. why?  https://paste.debian.net/hidden/26336cc8/
2023-03-21T20:39:00 < qyx> lord microstrain is a good company name
2023-03-21T20:40:18 < jpa-> PhantomWork: does the irq flag in registers get set?
2023-03-21T20:43:45 < PhantomWork> jpa- which one is it?
2023-03-21T21:11:13 < PhantomWork> jpa-: it really do not call the callback, my test:       uart1_printf("\n\rCanRXFillLevel: %i\n\r", HAL_CAN_GetRxFifoFillLevel(&hcan,0 ));      show that it do get the data...
2023-03-21T21:13:31 < zyp> so, if the status register shows the interrupt bit being set, but you're not getting an interrupt, then the obvious answer is that you haven't enabled it
2023-03-21T21:13:56 < zyp> remember that you typicaly need to enable an interrupt both in the peripheral and in the NVIC
2023-03-21T21:14:12 < zyp> I suspect you forget the latter :)
2023-03-21T21:17:06 < PhantomWork> and how can I confirm that the nvic is set? (cube ide...)
2023-03-21T21:17:16 < PhantomWork> it is checked in cube..<
2023-03-21T21:17:25 < PhantomWork> I wonder if it did generated the code...
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2023-03-21T21:40:20 < PhantomWork> did I missed anything?
2023-03-21T21:40:27 < boddax> NONE
2023-03-21T21:40:34 < boddax> ops ..none
2023-03-21T21:47:18 < jpa-> yes, the part where you read the reference manual
2023-03-21T21:51:16 < boddax> while reading manuals i'am listening jimy hendrix .. help a lot
2023-03-21T21:56:34 < PhantomWork> jpa-: the 1180few pages one? Nothing usefull to this problem that I have found
2023-03-21T21:57:12 < jpa-> it does describe the interrupt flags
2023-03-21T21:58:20 < karlp> alternatively, doesn't have the handler installed they think they do?
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2023-03-21T22:06:54 < qyx> liebe stm32u5 pros
2023-03-21T22:07:02 < qyx> is the trustzone sh*t mandatory?
2023-03-21T22:07:46 < qyx> checking STM32U575 now with 2x octostpi and <20 uA/MHz
2023-03-21T22:08:06 < qyx> also <10 uA stop2 with full SRAM retention
2023-03-21T22:08:08 < qyx> 768 KB!
2023-03-21T22:08:34 < zyp> nope, IIRC it's disabled until you set an option byte to enable it
2023-03-21T22:08:38 < qyx> Secure firmware upgrade support with TF-M
2023-03-21T22:08:44 < qyx> oh fuk'em
2023-03-21T22:08:58 < qyx> that TF is like GPL
2023-03-21T22:09:58 < zyp> have you checked how stock of U5 is? v8m is one of those things I'm prioritizing getting into my testrack
2023-03-21T22:10:30 < qyx> plenty of U5s on mouser
2023-03-21T22:11:04 < qyx> it is getting a bit too complex though
2023-03-21T22:11:12 < zyp> ah, right, I'm confusing with L5, was L5 I looked at the other day
2023-03-21T22:11:58 < zyp> hmm, no qfp100 though
2023-03-21T22:12:40 < qyx> nope
2023-03-21T22:12:49 < qyx> I was hoping for a 0.8 mm BGA
2023-03-21T22:13:08 < qyx> but only 0.5 mm BGA or WLCSP available
2023-03-21T22:13:09 < qyx> *possible
2023-03-21T22:14:00 < qyx> starting the cube to see the options
2023-03-21T22:14:15 < zyp> I'd prefer qfp100 so I can just make minor changes from these: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1087130848358305933/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1087146575647744090/image.png
2023-03-21T22:14:33 < qyx> STM32L562VET6Q is in stock
2023-03-21T22:14:40 < qyx> QFP100
2023-03-21T22:15:31 < qyx> uh what, L5 is 106 uA/MHz in run mode
2023-03-21T22:15:42 < qyx> that's about 2x more than other non-low-power families
2023-03-21T22:16:08 < qyx> and 5x more than U5
2023-03-21T22:16:16 < karlp> yeah, l5 was wat from day1.
2023-03-21T22:16:33 < karlp> seemed like bolting a bunch of f7 on top of a half arsed l4, but worse, 
2023-03-21T22:16:37 < zyp> ah, so that's why u5 exists
2023-03-21T22:16:52 < zyp> l5 sucks, so they had to make one that doesn't
2023-03-21T22:17:04 < karlp> well, they they tried l5+ first, too :)
2023-03-21T22:17:04 < qyx> yeah looks like H7 with failed low power optimisations
2023-03-21T22:17:07 < zyp> did you guys see h5?
2023-03-21T22:17:19 < qyx> got FDCAN too
2023-03-21T22:17:23 < qyx> nope yet
2023-03-21T22:17:26 < karlp> yeah, not sure I follow what it's for though, what's it got over g4?
2023-03-21T22:17:40 < zyp> h5 is also m33
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2023-03-21T22:18:39 < zyp> and you get h5 with ethernet
2023-03-21T22:18:45 < qyx> hm let's check, I need full ram retention in stop2 with < 50 uA and reasonably low run mode uA/MHz
2023-03-21T22:19:30 < qyx> 4.44 €/1pcs?
2023-03-21T22:19:40 < qyx> H503
2023-03-21T22:19:57 < karlp> zyp: efm32pg22 is well stocked and m33 too, fwiw.
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2023-03-21T22:20:20 < karlp> and efr32?g2? as well, though those are all rfsocs
2023-03-21T22:20:54 < zyp> not saying I want a m33 with ethernet, just saying that's what h5 offers over g4
2023-03-21T22:20:58 < qyx> 128K/32K and no external memory interfacy
2023-03-21T22:22:38 < karlp> atsaml10d is m23, well socketd, cheap...
2023-03-21T22:22:52 < karlp> renesas has been trying hard too, they seem relatievly well stocked.
2023-03-21T22:23:21 < karlp> many thousands under 3€ in singles of r7fa shits
2023-03-21T22:23:36 < zyp> eventually I need to get all sorts of weird shit for the testrack
2023-03-21T22:24:02 < karlp> lqfp100 isn't the most common....
2023-03-21T22:24:48 < karlp> lpc551x is m33 and qfp100 and wellish stocked.
2023-03-21T22:24:51 < zyp> for some stm32 families, it's the smallest qfp that has trace available
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2023-03-21T22:24:57 < karlp> but you're up to 7-8€ in singles
2023-03-21T22:25:10 < zyp> I don't care about the package for non-stm32 parts
2023-03-21T22:25:17 < karlp> yeah, I'm not looking at docs that hard right now, I'm too sick for that
2023-03-21T22:25:30 < karlp> m23 wont have trace anyway will it?
2023-03-21T22:25:41 < zyp> for stm32, qfp100 is nice since layout changes are minor
2023-03-21T22:25:48 < qyx> BGA MICROSTAR JUNIOR-157
2023-03-21T22:25:48 < zyp> idk, haven't looked at m23
2023-03-21T22:25:51 < qyx> is it 1995?
2023-03-21T22:26:38 < zyp> but I'm putting non-trace capable parts in the testrack too, debug testing is honestly more important than trace testing
2023-03-21T22:26:56 < zyp> but for trace capable parts, I want a trace capable package
2023-03-21T22:27:48 < qyx> the shortage is over
2023-03-21T22:28:12 < qyx> during the deepest darks of the shortage, only ~50 models of STM32 were available on mouser
2023-03-21T22:28:17 < qyx> out of 3250 or so
2023-03-21T22:28:28 < qyx> now it is 983 out of 3400 or so
2023-03-21T22:28:51 < zyp> doesn't help when the most interesting ones are still unobtanium :)
2023-03-21T22:28:55 < zyp> I want the dualcore h7 parts
2023-03-21T22:29:22 < karlp> efm32pg22 gives you 1 bit etm, m33, in a qfn40 :)
2023-03-21T22:29:41 < karlp> no option for wider :)
2023-03-21T22:29:47 < zyp> haha
2023-03-21T22:30:03 < zyp> not all that interested in efm32 really
2023-03-21T22:31:19 < qyx> for octospi flash + sram, do I need two interfaces? I don't remember
2023-03-21T22:31:24 < zyp> so far I've done module layouts for stm32f4 and f7/h7 (IIRC they're footprint compatible)
2023-03-21T22:31:27 < qyx> there are dual die packages
2023-03-21T22:31:40 < zyp> they've got chip selects
2023-03-21T22:32:07 < zyp> as long as the peripheral can drive multiple chip selects
2023-03-21T22:32:09 < qyx> and the stm32 too?
2023-03-21T22:32:16 < zyp> dunno, never used
2023-03-21T22:32:17 < qyx> yeah because for wuadspi that's not always the case
2023-03-21T22:33:44 < rustyaxe> in a few years we'll all be running super bloated code on our 128 core ARM chips, powered by personal nuclear reactors we carry on our backs :P
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2023-03-21T22:34:55 < qyx> L4S9 (L4+) is basically the same as U5 but more power hungry and M4
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2023-03-21T22:41:41 < Laurence_b> lolllll https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/03/21/046253/propellantless-system-for-satellites-will-get-tested-in-space
2023-03-21T22:41:47 < Laurence_b> Meme McCullough
2023-03-21T22:41:54 < Laurence_b> the qtard professor
2023-03-21T22:45:12 < qyx> I am reluctant to use QFP for a physically small design
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2023-03-21T22:58:49 < zyp> yeah, I wouldn't either
2023-03-21T22:59:01 < kaki> movie request
2023-03-21T22:59:18 < zyp> a serbian film
2023-03-21T23:03:43 < rustyaxe> boris and the bomb
2023-03-21T23:04:14 < qyx> re octospi, there are two controllers, one controller has only a single NCS, but those two can be multiplexed on the same data port sharing D0-D7 + data strobe
2023-03-21T23:07:49 < zyp> automatically?
2023-03-21T23:09:47 < qyx> idk there is a cube option for that
2023-03-21T23:10:07 < qyx> but I guess so because bot can be memory mapped
2023-03-21T23:10:30 < qyx> also W958D8NBYA5I
2023-03-21T23:11:12 < qyx> 512 mbit full refresh 80 uA typ
2023-03-21T23:11:35 < zyp> nice
2023-03-21T23:12:20 < qyx> so my next proj is doing a low power main plug-in unit for my daq
2023-03-21T23:12:46 < qyx> with U575, quadspi nand/nor flash, 512 mbit hyperram, can-fd
2023-03-21T23:13:04 < qyx> emmc for data, usb-c, and a SD card slot
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2023-03-22T19:02:35 < jbo> in kicad, when placing a "NPTH, Mechanical" pad, what is the "Pad shape" section for? (vs just the "hole shape")
2023-03-22T19:15:36 < jpa-> its purpose is to confuse people
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2023-03-23T16:29:20 < jbo> mini pcie seems kinda messy
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2023-03-23T16:29:55 < zyp> messy how?
2023-03-23T16:31:16 < jbo> I'm currently trying to have a look at various LTE Mini-PCIe modules. seems like vendors like to use reserved pins for stuff like USART and other "unofficial" functionalities.
2023-03-23T16:34:20 < zyp> I used to have cards in minipcie form factor, but with MIPI HSI as the interface
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2023-03-23T17:20:33 < jbo> kicad question (attn karlp): When dealing with power flags, I often find myself in a situation where I tap some global power supply (like +3.3V) and then creating a separate power supply net for a specific circuitry (eg. by adding some ferrite bead, filters, etc). How does one deal with that in KiCAD? Apparently I cannot use an existing power flag and simply change the name of it to create a new net (KiCAD forbids that). Do you just have dozens of different power 
2023-03-23T17:20:33 < jbo> flag symbols in your library or do you just use net labels?
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2023-03-23T17:26:54 < jbo> power flag -> power symbol
2023-03-23T17:30:39 < jpa-> kicad library already has quite many names available
2023-03-23T17:31:22 < zyp> haha, wat
2023-03-23T17:31:37 < zyp> why is net name not just a parameter on it?
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2023-03-23T17:35:02 < jpa-> no idea, it is some magic how they work :)
2023-03-23T17:35:28 < zyp> so you're limited to a predefined set of power net names?
2023-03-23T17:36:06 < zyp> (or defining more by creating library symbols)
2023-03-23T17:45:44 < qyx> yes
2023-03-23T17:46:01 < qyx> you can make a global label with pwr flag too
2023-03-23T17:46:30 < qyx> jbo: here in speed-restricted mode
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2023-03-23T17:50:52 < jbo> meh
2023-03-23T17:50:56 < jbo> jpa-, not using the "official" libs
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2023-03-23T18:36:51 < jpa-> weirdo
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2023-03-23T18:43:14 < kaki> me?
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2023-03-23T19:05:51 < Steffanx-> Yes you too kaki. But not this time
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--- Day changed pe maalis 24 2023
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2023-03-24T12:09:49 < karlp> heh, cavli wireless describes their usb inerface as "only supports slave mode" :)
2023-03-24T12:12:03 < zyp> very anti-woke
2023-03-24T12:14:16 < karlp> "Supports USB virtual network card" I guess that means it does appear as a proper usb modem? and I don't have to use fucking AT commands
2023-03-24T12:14:35 < karlp> heh, "When the temperature is in the range of –40°C to –30°C or +75°C to +85°C, some RF
2023-03-24T12:14:37 < karlp> specifications of the C16QS module may not meet the 3GPP standards."
2023-03-24T12:15:11 < zyp> «it'll probably work, but not be spec compliant»
2023-03-24T12:15:30 < karlp> huh, swd is available to the processor, thi sis the most "open" lte modem I've looked at.
2023-03-24T12:15:35 < jpa-> "emc certification engineers did not bring their woolly socks"
2023-03-24T12:19:50 < karlp> imagine asking for both 10pf _and_ 33pf in your decoupling.  gtfo.
2023-03-24T12:20:45 < zyp> if it's just decoupling, aren't they practically identical?
2023-03-24T12:20:47 < karlp> the most modern linear reg I've ever seen: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ukhe9.png
2023-03-24T12:21:38 < zyp> very LDO
2023-03-24T12:23:27 < qyx> it's just LC filtering for better VBAT quality
2023-03-24T12:23:47 < qyx> oh it is gumpy o'clock
2023-03-24T12:23:52 < qyx> *grumpy sorry
2023-03-24T12:26:53 < karlp> now with a cavli manual and a quacktel manual I can see which bits were obviously just lifted from the qualcomm source manuals :)
2023-03-24T12:26:59 < jbo> sup
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2023-03-24T13:01:03 < Steffanx-> Tha sky 
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2023-03-24T13:23:31 < karlp> so, this cavli module is _almost_ drop in pin compat with the quectel module.
2023-03-24T13:23:49 < karlp> footprint perfect, the unused lands are even set up in way that the pin number is identical
2023-03-24T13:24:20 < karlp> except, quacktel and cavli have swapped the "network status" indicator and the "usb boot for fw upgrade" pins.
2023-03-24T13:24:27 < karlp> nothing else, all the rest is drop in.
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2023-03-24T14:17:04 < zyp> sounds like one of them copied the other and had to make a change to not be accused of plagiarism :)
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2023-03-24T14:40:05 < karlp> or qualcomm should stop letting third partys do the selling, if it's all so transparently provided by qualcomm anyway
2023-03-24T14:54:47 < qyx> karlp: have you observed any visible differences in module performance? or, chipset performance?
2023-03-24T14:55:14 < qyx> eg. better sensitivity, faster connect, more stable connection in poor signal conditions
2023-03-24T14:55:29 < qyx> I can see you are testing them all one by one
2023-03-24T14:57:10 < karlp> no, I
2023-03-24T14:57:27 < karlp> 've only tested this single quectel eg91, and not in anywhere near a large enough scale to give any meaningful feedback
2023-03-24T14:57:42 < karlp> the cavli is about half the price so I'm entertaining it, that'
2023-03-24T14:57:43 < karlp> s all
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2023-03-24T15:16:33 < karlp> who could possible have thought that this was what users wanted? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/YTXcN
2023-03-24T15:17:07 < karlp> "yes, using the sysfs files was wrong, for reasons, so use this other thing, that doesn't do remotely what you actually wanted, and we keep breaking the api because it's wrong too..."
2023-03-24T15:17:59 < karlp> this is fucking insane.
2023-03-24T15:18:10 < karlp> this makes python3 migration look rational 
2023-03-24T15:25:02 < qyx> libgpiod?
2023-03-24T15:25:41 < karlp> yeah, it's a fucking disaster zone.
2023-03-24T15:25:49 < karlp> I can't believe how badly they'v fucked this up
2023-03-24T15:26:28 < karlp> I've found the dudes slides from two years ago where he speaks about messing up the uapi, and how he was goin to fix it, but he's then gone and completely broken the _user_ api, as well, 
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2023-03-24T16:10:49 < jpa-> karlp: probably same people who designed the stty baudrate setting mess
2023-03-24T16:21:16 < karlp> lto1: internal compiler error: original not compressed with zstd
2023-03-24T16:21:22 < karlp> then I've got that in the other window.
2023-03-24T16:21:29 < karlp> just... wth.
2023-03-24T16:21:35 < karlp> make dirclean, build -> garbage
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2023-03-24T16:57:44 < ventYl> I keep mistyping std::cout as std::cunt
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2023-03-24T17:07:35 < BrainDamage> #define std::cunt std::cout
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2023-03-24T21:37:43 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of bongland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65065154
2023-03-24T21:38:01 < Laurence_b> almost all of those things are already crimes, apart from : walking too close to someone
2023-03-24T21:38:13 < Laurence_b> orbital sides at the state of this
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2023-03-24T21:47:11 < jpa-> we are getting close to the point where Laurence_b being in UK actually raises the average IQ of the country
2023-03-24T21:48:08 < Laurence_b> lmao
2023-03-24T21:48:33 < Laurence_b> sick burn
2023-03-24T21:48:44 < Laurence_b>  "we made punching wamman in the face a crime!"
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2023-03-24T22:14:18 < specing> lol
2023-03-24T22:19:09  * qyx browsing arduino forums to find an equation to calculate temperature from a Pt1000 resistor divider
2023-03-24T22:23:26 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFr5sxwCXwAEWwPg.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
2023-03-24T22:24:28 < Laurence_b> qyx:  http://pastie.org/p/4qOzOQSEljFD3fuST7dhjv
2023-03-24T22:25:16 < Laurence_b> wait wtf
2023-03-24T22:25:25 < Laurence_b> input argument should be "R_100"
2023-03-24T22:25:28 < jadew> by street sexual harassment they probably mean you look at someone funny and they don't like it
2023-03-24T22:25:38 < Laurence_b> ikr, no way this could go wrong...
2023-03-24T22:26:04 < qyx> Laurence_b: haha
2023-03-24T22:26:34 < Laurence_b> I was just writing that code.. now I realise I failed
2023-03-24T22:29:34 < jadew> do any of you understand java well enough to figure out why this isn't working? http://5.12.189.24/stuff/Screenshot%20from%202023-03-24%2022-03-01.png
2023-03-24T22:32:18 < qyx> I have seen java in 2007 the last time but sounds about right to me
2023-03-24T22:36:12 < jbo> sup guys
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2023-03-24T22:45:06 < zyp> jadew, what's the signature of setOnClick()?
2023-03-24T22:46:44 < jadew> it expects ActionBuilders.Action, but it seems to support the lambda thing too
2023-03-24T22:47:06 < jadew> nvm, I went through it with the people from #java, they can't help either
2023-03-24T22:47:19 < jadew> (and I did look at it from all angles)
2023-03-24T22:47:29 < jadew> I'm obviously missing something, just not sure what it is
2023-03-24T22:49:29 < zyp> that entire API looks ridiculous
2023-03-24T22:49:37 < zyp> also, I fucking hate java
2023-03-24T22:49:40 < jadew> it's absolutely stupid
2023-03-24T22:50:02 < zyp> was doing some changes on an android app at work last week, it was miserable
2023-03-24T22:50:05 < jadew> whoever designed the API for this thing had the wrong job
2023-03-24T22:51:03 < zyp> when I find some time, I'm gonna experiment with doing an android app in python, there's frameworks for that
2023-03-24T22:51:17 < jadew> I don't think the language is the problem
2023-03-24T22:51:33 < zyp> (including doing BLE with that bleak lib that karlp recommended)
2023-03-24T22:51:36 < jadew> Java has its warts, but the android SDK is the root of all evil
2023-03-24T22:52:06 < zyp> nah, I've touched non-android java too, it's just as fucked up
2023-03-24T22:52:13 < jadew> heh
2023-03-24T22:52:38 < jadew> they came up with Kotlin which apparently improves things a little
2023-03-24T22:52:53 < jadew> but it seems like what coffeescript was to javascript
2023-03-24T22:53:32 < zyp> the only reasonably nice java experience I had was when I used Qt Jambi for a project in uni
2023-03-24T22:53:46 < zyp> because that was fairly close to using Qt in C++
2023-03-24T22:54:47 < jadew> is Qt still being used today? they were ahead of their time but their eco-system didn't catch on for some reason
2023-03-24T22:55:11 < zyp> sure is
2023-03-24T22:55:24 < zyp> not sure about Qt Jambi though, this was in 2008 or 2009
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2023-03-24T22:57:11 < zyp> we had a project in programming 101 at uni where we were supposed to build an mp3 player, got some half-done code to start with that loaded some mp3 lib and started setting up the gui with one of the standard gui frameworks
2023-03-24T22:57:18 < zyp> swing/swt/awt or whatever that was
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2023-03-24T22:58:18 < zyp> I asked the prof and he said it was okay to use other libs if we just remembered to bundle them with the handins, so I said fuck all that shit and went with Qt instead
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2023-03-24T22:59:19 < zyp> and the bindings included Qt.phonon, which meant it handles all sorts of media in a uniform manner, not just mp3
2023-03-24T22:59:46 < zyp> so mine ended up capable of playing videos as well
2023-03-24T22:59:53 < jadew> I never made anything useful with Qt, but I did give it a try when I was looking for a c++ GUI framework
2023-03-24T23:00:06 < jadew> heh
2023-03-24T23:00:10 < zyp> I've used pyqt a lot
2023-03-24T23:00:13 < jadew> hope you got an A
2023-03-24T23:00:27 < zyp> made a bunch of utilities in my last job using pyqt
2023-03-24T23:02:08 < zyp> didn't want to teach my coworker how to set up a build environment and run a build, so I made a pyqt app where he just have to pick the project directory, and it'll spin up a premade docker container with the entire toolchain, run the build and clean up :p
2023-03-24T23:02:25 < zyp> didn't want to teach him how to use docker either
2023-03-24T23:03:04 < zyp> and yeah, I did get an A in programming 101
2023-03-24T23:03:27 < jadew> I used to make almost all of my tools in C++, but now I seem to favor node for a lot of stuff
2023-03-24T23:04:22 < jadew> if anything, you save a lot of time on compiling
2023-03-24T23:04:59 < qyx> haha
2023-03-24T23:05:10 < qyx> zyp: I was doing a calendar app in Lua + wxlua
2023-03-24T23:05:22 < zyp> I remember at the end of the year when there were two handins left to do, I asked the prof «given that I've got 100% on everything else, do I actually have to do these to get an A?»
2023-03-24T23:06:00 < zyp> programming 101 didn't have a final exam, grade was entirely based on handin results
2023-03-24T23:06:38 < jadew> I failed computer architecture in the first year...
2023-03-24T23:06:52 < zyp> prof were like «hmm… well, let me see… okay, if you do just this part and show me you understand recursion, you've got an A»
2023-03-24T23:06:53 < jadew> the asshole gave me an F on the final exam
2023-03-24T23:07:11 < zyp> haha
2023-03-24T23:07:27 < jadew> it was a two part exam, written and oral
2023-03-24T23:07:28 < zyp> we had some word bullshit also, I remember
2023-03-24T23:07:48 < jadew> and during the written one I pointed out he made some mistakes in the questions and his expectations for the correct answer
2023-03-24T23:08:17 < zyp> one of the handins were make a nice document template with ToC and references and shit, and do it in both msword and openoffice to learn the differences
2023-03-24T23:08:17 < jadew> so on the oral one he kept asking "what's on a motherboard?" like an idiot
2023-03-24T23:08:34 < jadew> so I was like... "chips, slots, various components"
2023-03-24T23:08:41 < jadew> and he kept repeating the same stupid question
2023-03-24T23:08:54 < jadew> he failed me and then he told me I should have said "BIOS", "CPU", etc
2023-03-24T23:09:12 < jadew> that's when I realized there's nothing there for me, so I quit
2023-03-24T23:09:27 < zyp> I was looking at that, decided fuckit, and made a latex template instead that checked all the points
2023-03-24T23:09:38 < qyx> I got B in programming :S
2023-03-24T23:10:07 < qyx> I was missing a point o two (of 100)
2023-03-24T23:10:09 < jadew> zyp, yeah, they have very low expectations for the students
2023-03-24T23:11:03 < qyx> oh and yeah we had word and excel too
2023-03-24T23:11:15 < qyx> OO was "unsupported" at that time
2023-03-24T23:11:17 < zyp> prof were like «you sneaky fucker, I don't have the heart to not give you 100% on this»
2023-03-24T23:11:24 < qyx> I did it in OOo despite that fact
2023-03-24T23:12:31 < qyx> I quit after refusing to do shit in modelsim
2023-03-24T23:13:26 < zyp> so what I learned at uni is that you can completely ignore explicit requirements if you just do a sufficiently impressive alternative :p
2023-03-24T23:14:46 < qyx> no, 101 programming pros, tell me, why the hell my ADC reads 2067 instead of 2170
2023-03-24T23:14:59 < zyp> you lack 103
2023-03-24T23:15:18 < zyp> maybe your supply voltage is a bit high?
2023-03-24T23:15:37 < zyp> if VREF is too high, ADC will read low
2023-03-24T23:16:29 < qyx> it is a ratiometric reading
2023-03-24T23:16:37 < qyx> 1K/Pt1000 divider between VDDA/GND
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2023-03-24T23:16:51 < qyx> it keeps telling me it is 5°C here
2023-03-24T23:16:52 < jadew> why do you think it should be 2170?
2023-03-24T23:17:12 < jadew> ah, your model could be wrong
2023-03-24T23:17:40 < qyx> I should read about 1080 ohms which is 1080/2080*4095
2023-03-24T23:17:51 < qyx> sorry 2126
2023-03-24T23:18:00 < zyp> getting offset by the ADC sample current? do you have a cap on the ADC input?
2023-03-24T23:18:01 < jadew> why don't you work in volts instead?
2023-03-24T23:18:17 < jadew> measure with a DMM, and see if the ADC spits out the same value
2023-03-24T23:18:17 < zyp> no point if it's ratiometric
2023-03-24T23:18:24 < qyx> because fuck volts, nobody does volts if ratiometric
2023-03-24T23:18:35 < qyx> yeah there is a cap to gnd
2023-03-24T23:18:50 < qyx> going to measure now
2023-03-24T23:19:42 < qyx> DMM says 1.727 V
2023-03-24T23:20:07 < qyx> and VDDA is 3.298
2023-03-24T23:20:32 < jadew> you're not using an internal reference?
2023-03-24T23:21:05 < qyx> the reading is clearly wrong
2023-03-24T23:21:17 < qyx> but not too much
2023-03-24T23:21:41 < qyx> oh calibration
2023-03-24T23:26:43 < qyx>              pcb_temp                  PCB temperature          22.327 °C        
2023-03-24T23:26:50 < qyx> works now, thank you rubber ducks
2023-03-24T23:27:06 < qyx> I forgot to run calibration before enabling the ADC
2023-03-24T23:27:25 < zyp> ah, right, you're using that kind of ADC
2023-03-24T23:27:37 < zyp> this is g4?
2023-03-24T23:27:43 < zyp> I remember f3 also requires that
2023-03-24T23:28:03 < qyx> yeah g4
2023-03-24T23:29:07 < qyx> I have a MCP3564 there but I didn't want to interrupt my serious stuff with PCB temperature measurement
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2023-03-24T23:37:18 < Laurence_b> https://on4cdu.net/noise-measurements-on-voltage-regulators/
2023-03-24T23:37:20 < Laurence_b> interesting ^
2023-03-24T23:37:59  * Laurence_b is trying to measure thermal impedance versus time for TGV IGBTs without removing them from the train...
2023-03-24T23:38:12 < Laurence_b> this turns out to be rather hard
2023-03-24T23:39:48 < Laurence_b> atm I'm pulsing about 100A at 48V through them then measuring gate threshold voltage, which varies by about 10mV/C, but the measurement is tricky, as I need to swap between high power driver and sensitive threshold detector in <1ms and measure to ~1mK temperature accuracy
2023-03-24T23:40:37 < Laurence_b> atm I have excessive noise on the temperature measurements, which might be mainly power supply related
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2023-03-24T23:42:47 < qyx> drill a hole through the igbt and glue a sensor inside
2023-03-24T23:43:39 < specing> at 100A ? no doubt
2023-03-24T23:44:12 < Laurence_b> specing: I turn off the 100A
2023-03-24T23:45:00 < Laurence_b> so test is : measure gate threshold voltage at ~1mA, turn on 100A at 48V for ~10ms, then switch back to threshold measurement
2023-03-24T23:45:35 < Laurence_b> gate voltage also has to be controlled during the 100A pulse to keep the current constant
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--- Day changed la maalis 25 2023
2023-03-25T00:11:18 < Laurence_b> looks like the noise I'm seeing is fairly consistent with the 78L05 regulator being used to power the analogue side, derp
2023-03-25T00:13:23 < qyx> 78L05 what?
2023-03-25T00:13:36 < qyx> in 2023? for precise analol stuff?
2023-03-25T00:16:25 < Laurence_b> lmao, I found it in an old box in the lab
2023-03-25T00:17:07 < qyx> unrelated, can you give me a short insight what happened to habhub?
2023-03-25T00:17:27 < qyx> I understand it as a "loss of interest"
2023-03-25T00:17:40 < Laurence_b> I think the highaltitude guys went their separate ways and nobody would pay for the server
2023-03-25T00:17:58 < qyx> and the community?
2023-03-25T00:18:01 < Laurence_b> it was left with just "upu" running it and nobody paying him anything
2023-03-25T00:18:02 < qyx> no more balloons?
2023-03-25T00:18:23 < Laurence_b> ukhas is still alive https://ukhas.org.uk/doku.php?id=start
2023-03-25T00:18:42 < Laurence_b> maybe they will have another conference, I havent spoken to the key guys for years
2023-03-25T00:19:54 < Laurence_b> several of the main players were studying for PhDs/ degrees but they all graduated now, and there arent that many people to contribute the website upkeep aiui
2023-03-25T00:20:14 < qyx> you mean fsphil, daveake, etc?
2023-03-25T00:20:17 < Laurence_b> myself included...
2023-03-25T00:20:21 < qyx> yeah
2023-03-25T00:20:24 < qyx> and is leo alive?
2023-03-25T00:20:57 < Laurence_b> fsphil and daveake are still around, as is Leo, but Leo got bored and daveake was never that involved in website upkeep
2023-03-25T00:20:59 < qyx> I am not following them anymoe since 2017 or so
2023-03-25T00:22:13 < Laurence_b> edmoore, jcoxon, adam greig, and upu are all busy with other stuff / proper jobs aiui
2023-03-25T00:23:01 < Laurence_b> I went to the conference in 2016, but there hasnt been much happening since then
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2023-03-25T00:50:01 < Steffanx-> We remember the tie, Laurence_b  :P
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2023-03-25T01:04:34  * qyx temp calibrating the thing
2023-03-25T01:05:12 < qyx> very pro, hotair through a hole in the enclosure :P
2023-03-25T01:05:34 < qyx> set to low flow, 160°C
2023-03-25T01:05:44 < qyx> temp is going up about 1°C per minute
2023-03-25T01:05:55 < zyp> qyx, tests showed that the TDK accel weren't good enough either
2023-03-25T01:06:05 < zyp> trying ADXL350 next
2023-03-25T01:06:17 < qyx> I am ordering ADXL355 next week
2023-03-25T01:06:22 < qyx> same here
2023-03-25T01:06:33 < qyx> not good enough although I have not solved temp compensation fully
2023-03-25T01:08:53 < qyx> also, ADXLxxx demo boards are cheaper than the accels themselves
2023-03-25T01:09:01 < qyx> 60 € vs about 40 € on mouser
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2023-03-25T01:18:34 < zyp> hehe
2023-03-25T01:19:41 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XiHmu
2023-03-25T01:19:45 < qyx> The test setup.
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2023-03-25T01:21:49 < zyp> here's our: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bLYsx.png
2023-03-25T01:22:43 < qyx> oh for accels I have them screwed to a concrete floor in the basement
2023-03-25T01:23:06 < zyp> that'd make it hard to put them in the freezer
2023-03-25T01:23:24 < qyx> I put the freezer on them
2023-03-25T01:23:32 < qyx> I mean, the gel filled blocks
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2023-03-25T01:24:10 < qyx> ok 55°C reached, not going to bake them more
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2023-03-25T02:06:15 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Z6AcF/Screenshot_2023-03-25_01-05-55.png
2023-03-25T02:06:23 < qyx> I guess the temp dependency is obvious
2023-03-25T02:06:50 < qyx> 1.4% error over the entire range
2023-03-25T02:06:59 < qyx> which is much worse than I though
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2023-03-25T02:20:39 < zyp> as in 14mg?
2023-03-25T02:20:54 < zyp> over 35 degrees?
2023-03-25T02:21:14 < zyp> I think we saw worse than that
2023-03-25T02:23:38 < zyp> ADXL350 is specced to something like 0.31mg/deg max, which is a bit under 1% over 30 degrees, and we're hoping next test shows that that holds in practice
2023-03-25T02:28:53 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/media%2FFsAHANNaIAAExdB.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall
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2023-03-25T05:52:55 < qyx> zyp: nope, sorry, this is a strain gauge digitiser
2023-03-25T05:53:12 < qyx> I am interleaving multiple things here
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2023-03-25T06:07:13 < jadew> java is freaking infurating
2023-03-25T06:08:28 < jadew> I don't understand how it's possible for a try-catch not to catch an exception it's specifically targeting, especially when it seems to be anal about "all exceptions must be handled"
2023-03-25T06:11:03 < jadew> I'm trying to get the current location, and it's deferring the check (weather I have permissions or not) until I make the request for the result from the future-kind-of-thing that I get after I go through all the motions
2023-03-25T06:12:09 < jadew> the call is made after I was signaled that it's all done (successfully), and from what I gather, when I say getResult() it spawns a new thread and throws the exception in there, so I can't catch it and deal with it
2023-03-25T06:13:11 < jadew> like... I have try { getResult() } catch (SecurityException) {} and the fucker throws SecurityException and crashes my app...
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2023-03-25T18:11:05  * qyx @ another temp coeff calibration run
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2023-03-25T21:37:47 < catphish> what is STM32F405RGT6V (specifically, what is the V, it doesn't seem to be mentioned on the datasheet)
2023-03-25T21:39:28 < catphish> i also see T6W
2023-03-25T21:42:10 < jpa-> i think the letter after the number is eg. tape or tray
2023-03-25T21:43:03 < catphish> the datasheet says it might be TR for tape and reel, but no idea what V and W might be :(
2023-03-25T21:47:12 < jpa-> ask st sales office
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2023-03-25T23:14:03 < Posterdati> hi
2023-03-25T23:14:49 < Posterdati> please I need an help ion the systick counter on stm32f7: I programmed it to work with the 216 MHz external clock. Is this frequency divided by 8?
2023-03-25T23:15:03 < Posterdati> Thanks for help
2023-03-25T23:16:34 < qyx> I don't follow
2023-03-25T23:17:17 < Posterdati> it is described on the programming manual: you can use cpu clock or external clock. The latter should be the AHB clock / 8
2023-03-25T23:18:40 < Posterdati> so to have a 1 ms systick interrupt RVR = 27000000 / 1000 - 1
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2023-03-25T23:25:45 < Laurence_b> will I fry an AVR if AREF is a few hundred mV above AVCC?
2023-03-25T23:32:45 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a clue why STM32G030 would hold SDA line low by default when in slave mode?
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--- Day changed su maalis 26 2023
2023-03-26T00:24:47 < jadew> Been using Linux for more than a year now as my main OS. I still don't know how to make a desktop shortcut.
2023-03-26T00:25:42 < jadew> you have to create a .desktop file, which you manually fill with the details and it needs to be placed somewhere, but I don't know where, because when I read about it the location wasn't there anymore...
2023-03-26T00:26:58 < jadew> with some luck, next year will be the year of the linux desktop shortcut
2023-03-26T00:28:12 < BrainDamage> or you know, you do it like windows?
2023-03-26T00:28:14 < BrainDamage> you right click the thing, and select create a shortcut
2023-03-26T00:28:48 < jadew> BrainDamage, how didn't I think of it? /s
2023-03-26T00:29:05 < jadew> they removed that feature
2023-03-26T00:29:39 < jadew> guess they figured it was too user-friendly
2023-03-26T00:29:47 < qyx> what did they?
2023-03-26T00:29:54 < qyx> also, icons on a desktop?
2023-03-26T00:30:01 < jadew> I have icons
2023-03-26T00:30:09 < qyx> the most user friendly approach is hide them all
2023-03-26T00:30:19 < jadew> in fact, I even have some shortcuts that I created, but I don't remember how I did that
2023-03-26T00:30:21 < qyx> that's the first thing I disable on a fresh install
2023-03-26T00:30:24 < Posterdati> ah figured out the problem! The nucleo-f767zi has got no hse crystal, only hsi and 32768 Hz
2023-03-26T00:30:25 < Posterdati> :)
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2023-03-26T00:30:38 < Posterdati> so I used the HSI to feed the pll
2023-03-26T00:30:54 < BrainDamage> not sure what desktop you're using, but I used literally 60s ago in kde
2023-03-26T00:31:13 < jadew> BrainDamage, gnome
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2023-03-26T00:31:53 < qyx> but don't feel bad about it, I don't know it either after 19 years
2023-03-26T00:32:03 < qyx> and tbh I never did it
2023-03-26T00:32:25 < jadew> qyx, why don't you like icons on the desktop?
2023-03-26T00:32:25 < BrainDamage> also, the doc has and always has been for almost 2 decades at https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-utils/
2023-03-26T00:32:46 < BrainDamage> which links you to https://portland.freedesktop.org/doc/xdg-desktop-menu.html
2023-03-26T00:33:27 < qyx> jadew: because they are redundant
2023-03-26T00:33:44 < qyx> and because I don't see the desktop at all
2023-03-26T00:34:00 < qyx> I use the PC to do some work instead of staring at the desktop with icons
2023-03-26T00:34:49 < BrainDamage> I don't use any icon on the desktop either
2023-03-26T00:34:53 < BrainDamage> I see my desktop for 1-2s when I boot the pc, and never see it again anymore
2023-03-26T00:34:57 < BrainDamage> because it's always covered by stuff
2023-03-26T00:35:30 < jadew> does xdg-desktop-menu adds stuff to the start menu?
2023-03-26T00:35:38 < jadew> I wouldn't mind that...
2023-03-26T00:36:20 < BrainDamage> it can, if you want
2023-03-26T00:36:48 < BrainDamage> also, 1st line in the description " The xdg-desktop-menu program can be used to install new menu entries to the desktop's application menu. "
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2023-03-26T14:20:33 < kaki> sunday hello
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2023-03-26T14:56:04 < Steffanx-> Gooday mr kaki
2023-03-26T14:56:23 < kaki> remind me steff what I planned to do today
2023-03-26T14:58:00 < kaki> should I add connectors to my car to access 4 different can busses?
2023-03-26T14:58:26 < BrainDamage> are they sma connectors?
2023-03-26T14:58:31 < kaki> no
2023-03-26T14:58:41 < BrainDamage> disappointment
2023-03-26T14:59:52 < kaki> actually I just might order propper canbus wire pair before that
2023-03-26T15:00:32 < kaki> did some retrofitting stuff with some bulk wires and damn it sucked
2023-03-26T15:00:53 < kaki> just something I found from the box of wires
2023-03-26T15:01:01 < kaki> thick pvc
2023-03-26T15:06:35 < Steffanx-> Sauna time.
2023-03-26T15:14:23 < Steffanx-> What you plan on doing with zhe CAN devices kaki?
2023-03-26T15:14:43 < kaki> capture stuff
2023-03-26T15:14:46 < kaki> to hack stuff
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2023-03-26T15:46:48 < Steffanx-> Ok
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2023-03-26T16:00:18 < qyx> no kaki, why don't you use SMA for CAN?
2023-03-26T16:00:54 < kaki> they don't make them 2 signal versions of SMA
2023-03-26T16:01:00 < kaki> diff SMA
2023-03-26T16:01:25 < qyx> dual fakra SKB then
2023-03-26T16:01:34 < qyx> much automotive, many colour, wow
2023-03-26T16:01:43 < qyx> s/SKB/SMB
2023-03-26T16:02:36 < kaki> hmm my car has those connectors
2023-03-26T16:02:41 < kaki> in radio head unit
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2023-03-26T20:02:30 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sp_diffprobe1.jpg  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sp_diffprobe2.jpg   mechanically seems reasonable; electronically the OPA355 in inverting compensated attenuator setup are oscillating at 80 MHz for some reason
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2023-03-26T20:25:53 < aandrew> that's pretty slick
2023-03-26T20:29:25 < zyp> nice, differential sensepeek
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--- Day changed ma maalis 27 2023
2023-03-27T00:04:30 < aandrew> hey PaulFertser can I trick openocd to declaring a tap and ignore idcode altogether? I'm trying to use it to play an svf without anything connected just to have the lines wiggle how I want
2023-03-27T00:04:53 < aandrew> I *think* I might be able to do the tap declaration with idcode 0xffffffff and -irmask 0xffffffff 
2023-03-27T00:05:16 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I think it's just printing a warning and then can proceed with wiggling.
2023-03-27T00:05:36 < PaulFertser> That error is not fatal and it continues to work.
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2023-03-27T05:35:56 < qyx> ?
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2023-03-27T17:26:40 < karlp> ok, pure python v1 and v2 gpio chardev support works.
2023-03-27T17:26:43 < karlp> fuck libgpiod
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2023-03-27T19:23:13 < josuah_> karlp: python v1 and v2... I assume these are the version of the software, not the python versions?
2023-03-27T19:23:33 < josuah_> never used libgipiod. apparently thankfully so. https://github.com/brgl/libgpiod
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2023-03-27T19:29:00 < karlp> there's good bits
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2023-03-27T20:23:45 < karlp> hrmm, seeing almost twice the jitter than I was when this was initially prototyped and calculated.
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2023-03-27T20:52:09 < boddax> pcb problems?
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2023-03-27T21:05:24 < qyx> atsha204 strives to be the most retarded IC of 2023
2023-03-27T21:05:55 < qyx> A watchdog counter starts within the device after the ATSHA204A receives a Wake token. After t WATCHDOG , the
2023-03-27T21:05:58 < qyx> device enters sleep mode regardless of whether some I/O transmission or command execution is in progress.
2023-03-27T21:06:01 < qyx> There is no way to reset the counter other than to put the device into sleep or idle mode and then wake it up
2023-03-27T21:06:04 < qyx> again.
2023-03-27T21:06:21 < qyx> more like a sleepdog then
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2023-03-27T23:52:29 < fenugrec> hmm should I even bother trying to cram silkscreen refs on this https://pasteboard.co/bj0zkiBYWJlE.png
--- Day changed ti maalis 28 2023
2023-03-28T00:00:15 < karlp> probably not
2023-03-28T00:00:29 < zyp> I never bother
2023-03-28T00:01:10 < fenugrec> not looking forward to assembling it (just a 1-off, no PCBA for me)...
2023-03-28T00:02:38 < zyp> jlcpcb is cheap enough for one offs…
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2023-03-28T00:03:37 < karlp> anyone used any log based files sytems or automatic rolling logs for reliably saving state in a file?  (linux, not bare metal flash)
2023-03-28T00:04:35 < karlp> I feel like just continually overwriting a file every couple of minutes is probably not a great way of ensuring reliability
2023-03-28T00:05:12 < fenugrec> hm using ZFS here. not sure about logging
2023-03-28T00:05:31 < karlp> well doesn't need to be log structurered particularly,
2023-03-28T00:06:06 < karlp> I just wanted something similar to the durable eeprom emulation sort of thing, where you write and write and write and it just goes into a circular buffer, and on startup you look for the newest, and worst case, you lose one write.
2023-03-28T00:06:28 < karlp> but I kind afeel like I shouldnt have to be creating that by hand on desktop linux land?
2023-03-28T00:06:29 < fenugrec> append + sync after every write, and fragment your log files incrementally ?
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2023-03-28T00:07:16 < fenugrec> let HDD manage wear-leveling ? or are you concerned about losing stuff
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2023-03-28T00:07:39 < karlp> concerned about losing entirely.  assuming flash can handle wear leveling itself.
2023-03-28T00:08:11 < karlp> considering using python logging and just logrotate.
2023-03-28T00:09:01 < fenugrec> maybe just mount a small(er) FS with more aggressive syncing options
2023-03-28T00:09:09 < zyp> if youre using a regular journalling FS, I wouldn't worry
2023-03-28T00:09:31 < karlp> zyp: that's the other option, "filesystem just takes care of this right?!" 
2023-03-28T00:09:44 < zyp> if you want to be absolutely sure you're doing atomic updates, you can write to a tempfile and move it over the regular file
2023-03-28T00:10:03 < karlp> it's f2fs out of the box at the moment, which in theory is goign to be doing the right thing 
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2023-03-28T00:26:43 < karlp> this looks totally way too far out there, not going down this sort of path, but it's kinda interesting: https://gist.github.com/CAFxX/571a1558db9a7b393579
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2023-03-28T01:02:42 < zyp> that's actually pretty neat
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2023-03-28T01:12:02 < mawk> I'm cracking my dutch transport card, it's mifare classic 4K "hardened"
2023-03-28T01:12:49 < mawk> nice idea karlp 
2023-03-28T01:13:52 < mawk> I found 24/36 encryption keys so far
2023-03-28T01:15:28 < zyp> do they actually store tickets in the card, not just an ID for online validation?
2023-03-28T01:16:45 < qyx> here they store everything on the card
2023-03-28T01:16:59 < qyx> but idk if they evaluate things afterwards
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2023-03-28T01:18:24 < mawk> I think it's on the card zyp 
2023-03-28T01:18:37 < mawk> because online you can see the balance on the card but only sometimes
2023-03-28T01:18:43 < mawk> and sometimes it's off
2023-03-28T01:18:48 < mawk> and you have to make a trip for it to sync
2023-03-28T01:18:59 < mawk> so that makes me think it's not actually stored server-side, and it's in the card
2023-03-28T01:19:18 < mawk> but for my own card it's linked to my bank account so there's no balance on it
2023-03-28T01:19:23 < mawk> I'll try again with a card that has a balance
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2023-03-28T01:26:37 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVCmF_EeLEQ normal evening in france
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2023-03-28T07:51:30 < machinehum> mawk: I went to Germany recently
2023-03-28T07:52:04 < machinehum> I quite like douchbahn
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2023-03-28T12:25:18 < Laurence_b> sheeeeetttt
2023-03-28T12:25:30 < Laurence_b> the TGV blew up
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2023-03-28T13:01:12 < jbo> Laurence_b, ?
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2023-03-28T13:53:46 < qyx>  karlp: do you use uci to store your custom config?
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2023-03-28T13:55:40 < qyx> or a generic question, if you had to reinvent a NVM storage, would you go with flat key=value, values in a tree, binary structs (values only)..?
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2023-03-28T13:59:17 < qyx> https://github.com/maarten-pennings/Nvm
2023-03-28T13:59:24 < qyx> something like this
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2023-03-28T14:13:57 < Laurence_b> jbo: I was reconditioning traction inverters
2023-03-28T14:14:17 < Laurence_b> a reconditioned traction inverter just blew up and caught fire
2023-03-28T14:16:16 < jbo> heh :D
2023-03-28T14:16:55 < BrainDamage> Laurence_b: you can't say that and not take a pic
2023-03-28T14:17:15 < Laurence_b> pics are too secret
2023-03-28T14:17:16 < karlp> qyx: we use UCI for most stuff, and I try and avoid having much custom config
2023-03-28T14:17:34 < Laurence_b> the TGV is currently parked in a siding somewhere, fire brigade had to be called
2023-03-28T14:17:51 < Laurence_b> nobody knows what went wrong yet...
2023-03-28T14:17:53 < karlp> but yeah, I decided to just roll with openwrt all in, it means I can use "normal" init scripts there and so on, everything just "normal"
2023-03-28T14:18:07 < Laurence_b> I will claim they installed it wrong
2023-03-28T14:18:17 < karlp> and uci works happily on desktop for testing too, I'm actually a little dissapointed it's not packaged more widely, but that's classic openwrt
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2023-03-28T14:22:55 < karlp> shouldn't say "we" anymore though I guess.
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2023-03-28T14:42:59 < specing> Laurence_b: lol
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2023-03-28T20:25:58 < mawk> I cracked the mifare 4k hardened encryption keys of my dutch transportation card
2023-03-28T20:26:05 < mawk> and I modified my balance: https://i.imgur.com/TfH0l2f.png
2023-03-28T20:26:18 < mawk> just for the proof of concept, I'll revert to 0,00€ after
2023-03-28T20:26:20 < mawk> don't call the cops
2023-03-28T20:29:50 < bitmask> too late
2023-03-28T20:30:46 < qyx> mawk: I am curious if they will find out
2023-03-28T20:30:55 < qyx> I mean, they won't "find out"
2023-03-28T20:31:05 < mawk> I changed only the balance but not the transaction history
2023-03-28T20:31:07 < qyx> I guess they will simply overwrite your balance after online sync
2023-03-28T20:31:16 < mawk> so if you do a sanity check on the tx history you see there's too much money on it
2023-03-28T20:31:25 < jpa-> yeah, i think the balance on card is just for convenience when there is no internet connection
2023-03-28T20:31:25 < mawk> but it's not a problem I can fake a tx too
2023-03-28T20:31:37 < mawk> I'm pretty sure the actual balance is on the card
2023-03-28T20:31:45 < mawk> and the internet one is just an indication 
2023-03-28T20:32:00 < mawk> because with the NS app you can see your balance but it's just an estimate, and sometimes you can't see it
2023-03-28T20:32:08 < jpa-> here it's obvious it isn't on the card, because they allow to restore your balance to new card if you lose it
2023-03-28T20:32:14 < mawk> and you have to sync it by making a trip so it gets updated server side
2023-03-28T20:32:20 < qyx> here it is synchronised at the ends of the bus/tram/whatever connection
2023-03-28T20:32:20 < mawk> so that makes me think it's on the card itself
2023-03-28T20:32:30 < qyx> it *was*, idk how is it now
2023-03-28T20:32:45 < mawk> here to restore your balance you have to send the old card by the post
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2023-03-28T20:32:55 < mawk> another indication it's on the card
2023-03-28T20:32:59 < jpa-> the lost card? :)
2023-03-28T20:33:15 < mawk> well if it's lost too bad
2023-03-28T20:33:28 < jpa-> but they'll definitely have records of you paying to load the card on the payment processor side, so if they do comparisons it would be easy to catch
2023-03-28T20:33:32 < mawk> yeah
2023-03-28T20:33:58 < qyx> jpa-: that's not so obvious, here they can do that too but the balance is on the card, after you purchase/top-upyour account, they send you a mail telling you what's the soonest synchronisation points, which looks to me like a time when it is guaranteed all buses/trams get internet connection at least once
2023-03-28T20:34:20 < qyx> and then when you use your card it says "writing your online purchase to the card, wait"
2023-03-28T20:34:57 < qyx> and then it allows you to buy a ticket and when you do so, you have to beep your card
2023-03-28T20:35:08 < qyx> saying "writing your ticket"
2023-03-28T20:35:19 < jpa-> now they finally got contactless debit card support here, so that we no longer need separate transport cards
2023-03-28T20:35:28 < qyx> same here
2023-03-28T20:35:33 < qyx> I haven't tried it though
2023-03-28T20:36:08 < jpa-> i always forget what button to press and where to put the card, the terminal is not quite obvious enough
2023-03-28T20:36:17 < qyx> same here :>
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2023-03-28T21:00:26 < zyp> I think they mostly use phone apps for tickets here nowadays
2023-03-28T21:06:27 < qyx> I ran out of folk death medal
2023-03-28T21:06:33 < qyx> the work is paused
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2023-03-28T21:17:38 < BrainDamage> qyx: folk heavy metal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Ao-iNPPUc
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2023-03-28T21:22:32 < qyx> oh great
2023-03-28T21:24:03 < qyx> oh I have another one
2023-03-28T21:24:06  * qyx @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgvH6tX4Ej0
2023-03-28T21:24:30 < benishor> is there a way I can attach to a program running from a stm32h7's sram?
2023-03-28T21:24:39 < benishor> I'd like to be able to debug
2023-03-28T21:25:16 < qyx> just attach
2023-03-28T21:25:22 < qyx> without reset obviously
2023-03-28T21:26:10 < benishor> my openocd foo is not that large
2023-03-28T21:26:36 < benishor> should I just be using gdb?
2023-03-28T21:28:20 < PaulFertser> You just start openocd, then attach gdb.
2023-03-28T21:28:39 < PaulFertser> In gdb you tell to use your elf file.
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2023-03-28T21:31:48 < benishor> PaulFertser: right, thanks. I got confused by clion's openocd plugin
2023-03-28T21:34:56 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/vhPkcIT
2023-03-28T21:35:10 < benishor> it was set to always download the firmware
2023-03-28T21:35:24 < benishor> which would cause breakage 
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2023-03-28T21:39:24 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnI3d09tLVgwQUFqUUM3LmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxs
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2023-03-28T22:28:09 < mawk> zyp in Paris it only supports iPhone and Samsung phones
2023-03-28T22:29:22 < mawk> other phones support topping up the card but not opening the barrier directly
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2023-03-28T22:38:41  * Laurence_b is getting confused by JFET constant current noise
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2023-03-28T22:41:16 < Laurence_b53> looks like I've getting >1uA/sqrt(Hz) current noise from a 1mA constant current JFET circuit, surely too high
2023-03-28T22:41:40 < BrainDamage> what's wrong with it?
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2023-03-28T22:43:02 < Laurence_b53> looks like 1/f noise below ~10Hz
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2023-03-28T22:43:28 < qyx> 1/f noise, my friend
2023-03-28T22:43:34 < Laurence_b53> mean current is 1mA, exactly as designed, and I used a metal film resistor to bias the gate of a J113 jfet
2023-03-28T22:43:50 < Laurence_b53> it should have much lower noise... I think
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2023-03-28T22:47:49 < Laurence_b53> https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tran89.gif
2023-03-28T22:51:59 < Laurence_b53> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263913781_DEDICATED_INSTRUMENTATION_FOR_HIGH_SENSITIVITY_LOW_FREQUENCY_NOISE_MEASUREMENT_SYSTEMS
2023-03-28T22:52:10 < Laurence_b53> interesting, these guys put a cap across the bias resistor
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--- Day changed ke maalis 29 2023
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2023-03-29T00:18:06 < jadew> what's that in dBm, -73?
2023-03-29T00:18:29 < jadew> if yes, then yeah, it sounds like shit
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2023-03-29T00:56:14 < catphish> morning
2023-03-29T00:56:47 < qyx> 2u2
2023-03-29T00:56:59 < catphish> this week i've been programming a 68HC11, fun chip because it's a MCU but it also has an external address and data bus
2023-03-29T00:57:35 < qyx> that's the first one I ever played with successfully
2023-03-29T00:57:51 < qyx> I made a custom, uh, board
2023-03-29T00:58:10 < qyx> with a single 32K cache memory chip in PDIP
2023-03-29T00:59:02 < qyx> there were two versions, in PLCC44 with multiplexed A/D
2023-03-29T00:59:24 < qyx> or the bigger one, PLCC84 or whatever it was
2023-03-29T00:59:42 < catphish> the board i'm playing with has the bottom 32k mapped to a RAM and the top 32k mapped to a ROM, there's also a couple of addresses carved out for a LCD screen and stepper motor
2023-03-29T00:59:48 < qyx> which didn't need the 74hc573 bus buffer
2023-03-29T01:00:23 < qyx> yeah I liked it much, I miss it
2023-03-29T01:00:35 < catphish> luckily i don't have to worry too much about the hardware as it's ready made, but i love the concept
2023-03-29T01:00:50 < catphish> it's awesome being able to access external peripherals directly
2023-03-29T01:01:06 < catphish> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHBQtfuK25M
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2023-03-29T01:33:54 < jadew> man... there are so many obvious bad decisions in Android
2023-03-29T01:35:08 < jadew> the architects responsible were in love with abstractions
2023-03-29T01:35:30 < jadew> to the point that they gave birth to various anti-patterns
2023-03-29T01:36:45 < jadew> for example, they have a thing where you "bind" to a service, but instead of returning to Service object to you, you have to return another object from the service, through which you can then interact with the service
2023-03-29T01:37:20 < jadew> so an anti-pattern here is that people return an object that has a method that returns the actual Service...
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2023-03-29T01:38:29 < jadew> so you bind, you get that shit, which has very little purpose, and you call another method on it to get to the object you really need, the service. Then the intermediary thing gets disposed of
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2023-03-29T05:15:43 < jadew> ok, this was by far the most frustrating development experience ever
2023-03-29T05:15:57 < jadew> whoever was in charge of Wear OS is a fucking retard
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2023-03-29T05:16:47 < jadew> no wonder there are no apps for it
2023-03-29T05:20:23 < aandrew> what's wear os
2023-03-29T05:20:37 < jadew> it's the system that runs on android watches
2023-03-29T05:21:15 < jadew> it's very limited compared to what I've seen on my wife's apple watch
2023-03-29T05:21:18 < jadew> and now I know why
2023-03-29T05:23:57 < jadew> I spent a full day trying to figure out how to reliably get data from a service and update a tile, and now that I managed to do that, I can't display any meaningful data because, and I repeat myself, whoever did this was a fucking moron
2023-03-29T05:24:53 < jadew> in the spirit of keeping things fast, they provided a half-assed implementation of a layouting/drawing system for these particular components
2023-03-29T05:25:11 < aandrew> lovely
2023-03-29T05:25:18 < jadew> to the point that it's extremely difficult to display anything other than some text and maybe a button or two
2023-03-29T05:25:21 < aandrew> sounds like android though so I guess it fits
2023-03-29T05:26:17 < jadew> the outrageous thing is that for normal activities (what the windows are called in an android app), you can get to do it differently and you can build whatever you want
2023-03-29T05:26:30 < jadew> but they figured tiles don't need this
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2023-03-29T05:26:49 < jadew> and they have this stupid thing called a timeline... you add your layout on a timeline and somehow that should make sense
2023-03-29T05:27:25 < jadew> like if you have a situation in which you might want a layout now, a different one 5 minutes from now and another one 10 minutes from now - you can do that
2023-03-29T05:27:34 < jadew> and you're forced to work through that timeline API
2023-03-29T05:27:54 < jadew> if you have only one layout - like most sane things would, you still have to add shit to the timeline, like it's a fucking movie
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2023-03-29T05:28:34 < jadew> and if you want to update, you have to recreate the timeline, there's no updating of things, you just create it again from the ground up
2023-03-29T05:29:04 < jadew> best thing about it, your object can get destroyed at any point
2023-03-29T05:29:27 < jadew> you made a call to a service? FUCK YOU! You get destroyed!
2023-03-29T05:29:45 < jadew> you're expecting something from a service? No you're not, cuz I'm destroying the service!
2023-03-29T05:30:16 < jadew> and that's what it's like to make a tile on Wear OS
2023-03-29T05:31:41 < jadew> you might think I'm joking, but I'm not, it's awful - worst API I've ever seen
2023-03-29T05:32:15 < jadew> and they unleashed this crap on tons of unsuspecting developers
2023-03-29T05:32:37 < jadew> was wondering why my spotify tile was shit and buggy - now I know
2023-03-29T05:33:19 < jadew> oh! and let's say you want to trigger an update on your tile, well.. you might get it, you might not. It's up to the OS if it grants you the update
2023-03-29T05:34:08 < jadew> that's why when I'm using spotify the song name isn't changing, because google hires cretins
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2023-03-29T06:12:13 < jadew> I know why this is happening and it's understandable
2023-03-29T06:12:28 < jadew> there's no money in it
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2023-03-29T11:35:33 < qyx> be kind to all the people of this world
2023-03-29T11:35:37 < qyx> jadew: 
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2023-03-29T12:24:59 < benishor> https://twitter.com/emeryberger/status/1640856647349456897?t=d9DukX_RHAS5eksfrvMtnQ&s=19
2023-03-29T12:25:02 < benishor> because why not
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2023-03-29T12:57:45 < qyx> is there any reason this should not work? serial.Serial(port='/dev/ttyUSB1', baudrate=250000, bytesize=serial.SIXBITS)
2023-03-29T12:57:55 < qyx> it is a FTDI dongle
2023-03-29T12:58:06 < qyx> (keeps transmitting 8 bits)
2023-03-29T12:58:58 < qyx> oh it apparently supports only 7/8 bits
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2023-03-29T13:04:43 < mawk> use a cp210x qyx 
2023-03-29T13:04:45 < mawk> it supports 6 bits
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2023-03-29T13:41:22 < karlp> hahah. expecting serial to be as arbitrary as it should be :)
2023-03-29T13:43:25 < qyx> excuse my daring
2023-03-29T13:45:20 < jpa-> you can just put trailing bits as 1 in data
2023-03-29T13:45:47 < jpa-> (though you'll miss out the speed gain from less bits)
2023-03-29T13:49:08 < qyx> oh nope, I am about to abuse it to generate FSK
2023-03-29T13:49:16 < qyx> so I need zero space between bytes
2023-03-29T13:49:41 < qyx> I need either 9n2 to get 12 bit word or 6n1 for a 8 bit word
2023-03-29T13:50:00 < qyx> which is divisible by 4 and allows me to generate MSK/QPSK
2023-03-29T13:51:10 < qyx> so I can get symbols 00001111 and 00110011
2023-03-29T13:51:22 < qyx> or 000000111111 and 000111000111 respectively
2023-03-29T14:16:32 < karlp> ok, I didn't get myself a nice shiny scope for having the company sold, but I'm now the owner of a https://www.calmet.com.pl/en/ts33-three-phase-fully-automatic-test-system-with-reference-standard-and-integrated-current-and-voltage-source
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2023-03-29T14:28:55 < qyx> lol
2023-03-29T14:35:22 < jpa-> qyx: 8n1 and symbols [0|00001111|1] and [0|01110001|1]
2023-03-29T14:35:49 < qyx> that's not per-fect
2023-03-29T14:35:52 < jpa-> has a bit of phase jitter in the 2x frequency symbol, but that's only realistic!
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2023-03-29T14:58:04 < qyx> in a 4 wire bridge measurement with constant voltage excitation of 2.5 V, inserting a quality 1.5 m Harting cable resulted in a 2 uV/V reading drop
2023-03-29T14:59:09 < qyx> which is 0.2%
2023-03-29T14:59:12 < qyx> oh wait
2023-03-29T14:59:36 < mawk> 0.000002
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2023-03-29T14:59:37 < qyx> yeah I computed 0.19%, everything is right
2023-03-29T14:59:57 < qyx> for some reason I though I am one order of magnitude off
2023-03-29T15:00:28 < mawk> well you said uV not mV, that's 0.0002% no?
2023-03-29T15:10:08 < qyx> 1e6 uV/V is 100%
2023-03-29T15:10:20 < qyx> 2 uV/V is 1 ppm
2023-03-29T15:10:25 < qyx> sorry, 2 ppm
2023-03-29T15:11:03 < qyx> oh but not %FS, I am talking about % of reading
2023-03-29T15:11:17 < qyx> 1050.8 vs 1048.8
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2023-03-29T15:24:32 < mawk> ah right
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2023-03-29T15:49:09 < Posterdati> hi\
2023-03-29T15:50:12 < Posterdati> please help, in the stm32ht the PLLxFRACN is intended to be FRACN = (binary value in FRACN) + 1 ??? Thanks!
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2023-03-29T16:43:56 < qyx> did you check the reference manual?
2023-03-29T16:44:18 < qyx> I would say it is written inside
2023-03-29T16:48:52 < Posterdati> qyx: the rm is not clear
2023-03-29T16:49:16 < Posterdati> but the formula is ref_ck * (DIVN + FRACN / 8192)
2023-03-29T16:50:04 < Posterdati> FRACN is 13 bits
2023-03-29T16:52:19 < Posterdati> instead for DIVN we have DIVN = 4 then bits = 0b11, DIVN = 5 then bits = 0b100 and so on
2023-03-29T16:55:43 < qyx> in register description it is clearly written that the value of DIVs is +1, there is a mapping for every one
2023-03-29T16:56:08 < qyx> and FRACn is 0-2**13-1
2023-03-29T16:56:30 < qyx> which I understand as 0 to 2**13-1
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2023-03-29T16:57:04 < qyx> there is nothing about any +1 offset nor wouldit have any sensible reason
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2023-03-29T17:15:45 < Posterdati> qyx: well you cannot have 550 MHz clock if FRAC is at maximum 8191
2023-03-29T17:18:31 < qyx> why
2023-03-29T17:18:54 < Posterdati> the 1 offset make sense if you place FRACN = 0 you will have the same effect of the integer configuration
2023-03-29T17:19:15 < Posterdati> instead for FRACN = 0 means 1/8192
2023-03-29T17:19:30 < Posterdati> which is not possible with the integer config
2023-03-29T17:20:36 < Posterdati> in the case FRACN is the value with no offset you can have 0.9998779
2023-03-29T17:20:48 < Posterdati> which is 8191/8192
2023-03-29T17:21:25 < Posterdati> then 548 + 0.999879 MHz
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2023-03-29T17:25:07 < qyx> whats your pll source and all your pll config?
2023-03-29T17:26:02 < jpa-> usually fractional numbers are like   548.0 ... 548.999879   and not    548.0002 ... 548.[wait - it's actually 549!]
2023-03-29T17:30:27 < Posterdati> PLL source = HSI clock / 32
2023-03-29T17:30:35 < Posterdati> HSI clock = 64 MHz
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2023-03-29T18:01:12 < mawk> I went to the train station to test my hacked card
2023-03-29T18:01:15 < mawk> well: https://i.imgur.com/Kgs1b0R.jpeg
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2023-03-29T18:23:35 < qyx> I cannot read that
2023-03-29T18:41:00 < mawk> it says "current balance: 80€"
2023-03-29T18:41:29 < mawk> then I tried it at the gate and it opened the gate so it's indeed using the card as the authoritative source for the balance
2023-03-29T18:42:06 < qyx> I would try again in a few days
2023-03-29T18:42:20 < mawk> yeah
2023-03-29T19:01:10 < qyx> whois a display pro besides jbo 
2023-03-29T19:01:31 < qyx> I need a 4" display + capacitive touch and glue it to an imx6
2023-03-29T19:02:18 < qyx> do I want parallel RGB or is SPI manageable? I want a fully static UI
2023-03-29T19:04:47 < mawk> well if it's static it shouldn't be a problem to be slow right
2023-03-29T19:07:42 < Steffanx-> And the next day your card is blocked mawk?
2023-03-29T19:07:51 < mawk> maybe Steffanx- 
2023-03-29T19:07:54 < mawk> but I can unblock it
2023-03-29T19:07:57 < mawk> lol
2023-03-29T19:08:10 < mawk> Steffanx- https://i.imgur.com/Xj55uU3.mp4
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2023-03-29T19:14:47 < mawk> but I'm not going to use it for real, I don't like jail
2023-03-29T19:14:55 < mawk> I'll revert to 5€ when I'm done playing 
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2023-03-29T20:59:26 < jadew> qyx, at least I didn't resort to violence
2023-03-29T21:01:46 < jadew> mawk, assuming what you're doing is legal (/disclamer), I would erase part of the serial number
2023-03-29T21:02:05 < jadew> like if it's made out of 8 bytes, I would set the last 4 or the first 4 to 0
2023-03-29T21:02:38 < jadew> that way, if anyone asks you what's going on, and you show them your card, it would at least look like it's defective
2023-03-29T21:03:12 < qyx> I guess the serial number is read only
2023-03-29T21:03:13 < qyx> as usual
2023-03-29T21:03:18 < jadew> could be
2023-03-29T21:03:58 < qyx> jpa- has all the logs proving his innocence
2023-03-29T21:04:05 < jadew> haha
2023-03-29T21:06:54 < jadew> worst thing you could do is find unused space and fill it with "mawk was here"
2023-03-29T21:07:01 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2023-03-29T21:10:43 < qyx> "I appreciate your work, I am conformant to all laws and rules of the society, I played with the card purely to boost my karma, I am sorry for any inconvenience"
2023-03-29T21:11:56 < jadew> nah, he should make a youtube video about it to gather some clout, then he can start a competing train station card refilling service, 5€ for 1€.
2023-03-29T21:13:08 < jadew> would be interesting to see the angle of the prosecution in that case
2023-03-29T21:14:40 < jadew> "1€ with your card, or 1.50€ with our own. Buy now!"
2023-03-29T21:16:31 < BrainDamage> he'd be selling a service that's not his
2023-03-29T21:16:52 < BrainDamage> which is scam, along a few other charges
2023-03-29T21:16:58 -!- Laurence_b [~Laurence_@7.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2023-03-29T21:17:41 < jadew> "I was only flipping some bits. The card was mine. That's not actual money. I didn't sign anything disallowing me from doing this."
2023-03-29T21:17:48 < BrainDamage> related: https://nitter.net/doctorow/status/1445902599148883974
2023-03-29T21:18:00 < jadew> "I can alter my own personal items under EU law."
2023-03-29T21:18:59 < BrainDamage> the law deals in what something represents, otherwise, "flipping some bits" would't be a copyright violation for example
2023-03-29T21:21:19 < jadew> the examples in that twitter post are funny
2023-03-29T21:21:28 < jadew> fine example of parasitic businesses
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2023-03-29T21:30:50 < mawk> lol jadew 
2023-03-29T21:31:36 < mawk> well I could buy a magic mifare 4k card whose UID I can modify
2023-03-29T21:32:36 < mawk> but the encryption keys are derived from the UID I'm pretty sure
2023-03-29T21:32:40 < mawk> so the card would be bricked with a different UID
2023-03-29T21:42:05 < jadew> I'm sure they were already notified of the discrepancy with your card
2023-03-29T21:42:41 < jadew> I wouldn't use it again
2023-03-29T21:43:46 < jadew> I would also consider wearing a hat from now on, because they probably know what you look like
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2023-03-29T22:03:48 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnNaUTQ2NWFBQUFUenlhLnBuZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxs
2023-03-29T22:10:39 < Laurence_b> keekk https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1c6aa7a7-71b7-4a99-8fa1-c5c6af83657c_3000x1950.png
2023-03-29T22:10:45 < Laurence_b> the worlds smartest
2023-03-29T22:11:32 < Laurence_b> lol at 6th smartest
2023-03-29T22:15:38 < Laurence_b> I like how Joe Biden makes an appearance in the IQ lineup of famous trolls
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2023-03-29T22:23:42 < BrainDamage> "your dad"
2023-03-29T22:24:57 -!- lagash [lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
2023-03-29T22:25:25 < BrainDamage> oh, there's a "yourself" too
2023-03-29T22:27:42  * qyx pulls the bridge digitiser out of a deep freezer
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2023-03-29T22:28:42 < BrainDamage> does it digitalizes whole bridges?
2023-03-29T22:28:58 < qyx> that would be great
2023-03-29T22:29:15 < qyx> but we already have such thing, lidar/insar
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2023-03-29T22:34:20 < Laurence_b> I think muh noise is a combination of vreg noise and poor ripple rejection from the regulator
2023-03-29T22:34:32 < Laurence_b> lab supply rail is atrocious
2023-03-29T22:34:53  * Laurence_b is trying to measure transient thermal impedance of massive IGBTs
2023-03-29T22:35:22 < Laurence_b> my 5V analogue rail has around 2mV RMS noise from 0.1 to 100Hz
2023-03-29T22:35:34 < Laurence_b> so pretty aweful
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2023-03-29T23:45:18 < Laurence_b> http://www.efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/index.html
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2023-03-29T23:45:41  * Laurence_b has got back the burnt TGV inverter
2023-03-29T23:46:00 < Laurence_b> its not actually too bad, only at few IGBTs and busbars mildly burnt
2023-03-29T23:52:47  * Laurence_b suspects that some SNCF tard cracked the fibre optics
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2023-03-29T23:52:47 < Laurence_b> I discovered if I damage fibres then vibrate it, the gate drivers can malfunction and gates get stuck at ~8V or so
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2023-03-30T00:23:48 < jadew> Laurence_b, so filter the input
2023-03-30T00:26:40 < jadew> also, if you're doing low noise measurements (which you're really not at that level, but you'd want to improve that), you need to shield the whole thing
2023-03-30T00:28:01 < jadew> also, what comes out of the measurement box has to either be a full measurement, or at least a signal on a good coaxial line
2023-03-30T00:28:13 < jadew> if you don't do that, the noise you're measuring could be anything
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2023-03-30T01:19:17 < qyx> what the hell, stack overflow is not accessible
2023-03-30T01:21:02 < qyx> and I don't know how to mark an empty cell in sphinx's .rst
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2023-03-30T01:24:13 < jadew> it's accessible to me
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2023-03-30T01:33:51 < jadew> so android development is so bad, that the only use of the new API for watch face complications (the old one was deprecated years ago) is in the unit test they have for the library.
2023-03-30T01:34:00 < jadew> that's the only code using that thing on the entire internet
2023-03-30T01:34:24 < jadew> and it's 30 lines long, not even covering everything
2023-03-30T01:47:02 < zyp> haha
2023-03-30T01:48:17 < zyp> oh, I missed the fact that pixel watch came out
2023-03-30T01:48:38 < jadew> yeah, maybe they'll invest more in the OS because of it?
2023-03-30T01:49:05 < zyp> I picked up a samsung watch a bit over a year ago and I've never really liked it
2023-03-30T01:50:04 < jadew> my wife got me one for my birthday, it's good for outdoor running and things like that
2023-03-30T01:50:13 < zyp> before that I had a lg g watch that I liked much better (the original square one from 2014 that was one of the first two android wear devices launched)
2023-03-30T01:50:37 < jadew> you can leave your phone at home and still track your progress + listen to music
2023-03-30T01:50:55 < jadew> why did you like that one better?
2023-03-30T01:51:10 < zyp> it worked, mostly
2023-03-30T01:52:13 < zyp> only issue I ever had with the old one was that the charging port had a corrosion problem, so it needed to be cleaned from time to time to charge properly
2023-03-30T01:52:31 < zyp> so I wanted the next one to have wireless charging, and this samsung offered that
2023-03-30T01:52:45 < jadew> was the UI better?
2023-03-30T01:53:54 < zyp> also another thing I wanted in the new one was android pay
2023-03-30T01:53:59 < zyp> and it fucking doesn't work
2023-03-30T01:54:11 < zyp> that's what pisses me off the most
2023-03-30T01:54:40 < jadew> I didn't try it yet, what's wrong with it?
2023-03-30T01:54:57 < zyp> it fails out with a nonsense error when I try adding a card
2023-03-30T01:55:59 < jadew> you could try calling support - they might actually try to help you
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2023-03-30T01:57:03 < jadew> what I don't understand is why they didn't just copy the way apple handles watch faces
2023-03-30T01:57:41 < jadew> where you can have multiple watch faces configured for different things, and you can easily switch between them by scrolling
2023-03-30T01:58:05 < jadew> if they did that, I think the whole watch experience would be greatly improved
2023-03-30T01:58:31 < jadew> tiles are a good idea too (so you have a whole screen for a particular thing), but their implementation is bonkers
2023-03-30T01:59:58 < jadew> I found another example for the complications, but it's not using the exact API, but something else targeted at kotlin
2023-03-30T02:00:25 < jadew> maybe that's why I'm having such a hard time with it, they seem to favor kotlin for new stuff
2023-03-30T02:01:09 < jadew> still no documentation tho, just the doxygen kinda stuff
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2023-03-30T02:04:10 < jadew> hmm, the codelab for the kotlin stuff is really not bad
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2023-03-30T02:15:35 < jadew> Laurence_b, did you catch what I wrote to you earlier?
2023-03-30T02:15:47 < Laurence_b> jadew: yeah thanks
2023-03-30T02:15:49 < jadew> I was going to also tell you to measure the noise floor of your system
2023-03-30T02:16:01 < jadew> (measure noise with everything turned off)
2023-03-30T02:16:06 < jadew> that includes the power supply
2023-03-30T02:16:08 < Laurence_b> yeah, there is a shielded multicore cable to the hardware
2023-03-30T02:16:31 < Laurence_b> I've characterised everything, but I should have done it one part at a time before I assembled the board
2023-03-30T02:16:47 < jadew> I agree
2023-03-30T02:17:49 < Laurence_b> its hard to work out exactly where all the noise sources are, but the 5v analogue rail is far too noisy
2023-03-30T02:18:45 < jadew> I'd look at voltage regulators first
2023-03-30T02:19:42 < jadew> maybe you can assemble a new board on which you can test the output of the (loaded) regulators in isolation
2023-03-30T02:20:02 < Laurence_b> yeah I'm planning to fit TL431AILP
2023-03-30T02:20:10 < jadew> could be just one that contributes the most noise to the system
2023-03-30T02:20:39 < Laurence_b> atm I have a 2.5V rail thats used as a reference for the analogue amplification, but its referenced to 5V/2, but the 5V in noisy
2023-03-30T02:21:16 < Laurence_b> the IGBT thermal test part uses the 0V rail, so there is noise between the IGBT test section and the analogue part iwht 2.5V "ground" refernece
2023-03-30T02:22:01 < Laurence_b> its only tens of uV, but thats too high, I need uV RMS noise from 0.1 to 100Hz
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2023-03-30T02:24:11 < jadew> that's like the worst part of the spectrum to need it clean :)
2023-03-30T02:24:18 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-03-30T02:24:35 < jadew> any filter for it would be extra bulky
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2023-03-30T02:25:15 < Laurence_b> the design needs redoing, but I get use TL431 and 500ohm resistor to 5V to get the noise down to ~10uV peak to peak on the 2.5V rail
2023-03-30T02:25:23 < Laurence_b> probably good enough .. just
2023-03-30T02:26:02 < Laurence_b> IGBT gate threshold voltage drift is 8mV/C, and I heat the IGBTs about 0.3C using a 100W pulse for tens of ms
2023-03-30T02:27:08 < jadew> what's the ultimate purpose of this module? a 1 mA current source?
2023-03-30T02:27:13 < Laurence_b> I tried putting multiple 4700uF caps onto the 2.5V rail, but its still too noisy
2023-03-30T02:27:46 < Laurence_b> jadew: to measure transient thermal impedance of IGBTs
2023-03-30T02:29:06 < jadew> and you're using some thermistor that needs 1 mA to measure to temperature?
2023-03-30T02:29:21 < Laurence_b> no I'm using the IGBT die itself
2023-03-30T02:29:38 < jadew> what's the 1 mA for?
2023-03-30T02:30:01 < Laurence_b> IGBT gate threshold voltage is proportional to die temperature
2023-03-30T02:30:24 < jadew> I see
2023-03-30T02:31:15 < Laurence_b> I tie G and C, then put in 1mA
2023-03-30T02:32:01  * Laurence_b zzz
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2023-03-30T03:11:26 < jadew> ok, so there's is code using this stuff, it's just not java
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2023-03-30T09:32:08 < jpa-> resident USB experts, can you follow the logic here: https://github.com/arduino/mbed-os/blob/extrapatches-6.15.1/drivers/usb/source/USBDevice.cpp#L900-L914
2023-03-30T09:32:37 < jpa-> why couldn't host send EP0 OUT at any time, whether there is other transfer scheduled or not?
2023-03-30T10:16:53 < jpa-> looks like it happens after interrupts have been disabled for a while, _device.state = Address, _transfer.stage = Setup, _transfer.user_callback = Request
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2023-03-30T10:35:18 < jpa-> https://github.com/arduino/ArduinoCore-mbed/issues/409#issuecomment-1489833314   i guess this is it
2023-03-30T10:47:27 < zyp> is that OUT or SETUP?
2023-03-30T10:47:58 < zyp> what sort of timing are you looking at for that «long enough»?
2023-03-30T10:49:03 < jpa-> i'm having interrupts disabled for 50 ms (erasing a flash page in the XIP flash)
2023-03-30T10:49:08 < zyp> control OUT has flow control, so the host should only be sending more packets if you keep ACKing them
2023-03-30T10:49:36 < jpa-> i guess i should probe the usb bus
2023-03-30T10:50:24 < zyp> so it sounds to me like the firmware can't keep up, but it's not propagating flow control properly to the USB bus
2023-03-30T10:51:39 < jpa-> i think the interrupt disabling is long enough that the PC might resort to USB RESET
2023-03-30T10:58:14 < zyp> you said 50 ms…
2023-03-30T10:58:31 < zyp> outside of enumeration, control requests typically have five seconds to complete
2023-03-30T10:59:38 < jpa-> this is enumeration
2023-03-30T10:59:44 < zyp> ah
2023-03-30T10:59:59 < jpa-> happens immediately after boot
2023-03-30T11:55:23 < jpa-> wow, i just found the missing execution trace feature on RP2040 :D
2023-03-30T11:55:52 < jpa-> took me more than a year to realize, but if you disable XIP cache, all the execution addresses are directly visible on the external flash bus
2023-03-30T12:16:31 < zyp> haha, nice
2023-03-30T12:24:04 < jpa-> next question is if i wire the QSPI D0-D3 and SCK to ARM trace port TRACEDATA0-3 and TRACECLK, will orbtrace give me raw nibbles on every rising clock edge?
2023-03-30T12:29:19 < zyp> nope, although that could be an interesting feature to support at some point
2023-03-30T12:30:16 < jpa-> :)
2023-03-30T12:30:25 < jpa-> for now i'm fine with logic analyzer
2023-03-30T12:33:10 < jpa-> the RP2040 trace format is big-endian, first 24 bits PC address (except for the top byte which is 0x01 for XIP flash) and then 0x0A 0x00 0x00 (QSPI flash mode byte and two byte flash latency)
2023-03-30T12:34:40 < zyp> does it terminate and restart the QSPI transaction for every single fetch?
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2023-03-30T12:42:05 < jpa-> zyp: it uses the continuous mode where you can give a new address and then immediately get 32 bits of data from it
2023-03-30T12:43:53 < zyp> ah
2023-03-30T12:45:02 < zyp> also with cache enabled?
2023-03-30T12:46:07 < zyp> if it's fetching cache lines, I'd expect it to be more efficient to only need to provide the address once per line
2023-03-30T12:46:36 < jpa-> hmm yeah, it's a bit weird, refman says that cache line should be 8 bytes
2023-03-30T12:47:23 < zyp> even without cache I'd think QPI bursts would be more efficient
2023-03-30T12:48:08 < zyp> (also, I didn't know about this «continuous mode»)
2023-03-30T12:50:49 < jpa-> i think RP2040 doesn't support QPI
2023-03-30T13:00:20 < jpa-> hmm, actually it seems the RP2040 should be able to support QPI, but the pico-sdk boot code seems to configure it with the continuous read command 0xEB for W25Q128FV
2023-03-30T13:01:20 < jpa-> but i guess the performance is nominally the same
2023-03-30T13:01:40 < jpa-> seems that the 32-bit reads is probably a result of how the bus interface between cache and XIP block works
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2023-03-30T13:05:58 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/rp2040_cache_line_fill.png
2023-03-30T13:08:33 < jpa-> (that's with flash bus at 2 MHz, it raises to 60 MHz later but the format stays same)
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2023-03-30T14:41:05 < jpa-> zyp: got more details, https://github.com/arduino/ArduinoCore-mbed/issues/409#issuecomment-1490151303    i think it is processing the new SETUP packet and the 0-length status stage of previous transfer in wrong order
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2023-03-30T15:27:57 < zyp> ah, the sort of stuff libopencm3 also have been struggling with
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2023-03-30T16:45:54 < mawk> the backend of the transport authority is showing me my spoofed balance
2023-03-30T16:45:59 < mawk> when I go on the website
2023-03-30T16:46:10 < mawk> it's happily saying "current balance: 80,00€
2023-03-30T16:46:11 < mawk> "
2023-03-30T16:46:27 < mawk> but the topup transaction still shows as +5,00€ so if they run the number they will detect me
2023-03-30T16:46:38 < mawk> I need to introduce a brand new transaction of +75,00€ in the system
2023-03-30T16:46:46 < mawk> but I'm having trouble reverse engineering the transaction format
2023-03-30T16:47:05 < jpa-> they seem to be a bit slow handling the fraud reports me and Steffanx- have been posting
2023-03-30T16:47:23 < mawk> lol
2023-03-30T16:52:10 < Steffanx-> Change it back to 5 and they'll never know.
2023-03-30T16:52:16 < mawk> yeah
2023-03-30T16:52:19 < mawk> but only after I succeed
2023-03-30T16:52:22 < Steffanx-> Since the numbers add up
2023-03-30T16:52:26 < mawk> then I'll change it back to 5
2023-03-30T16:52:53 < Steffanx-> They actually have an email address for that jpa- :D
2023-03-30T16:53:34 < Steffanx-> fraude.onderzoek@translink.nl mail em mawk.
2023-03-30T16:54:26 < mawk> do I get a discount on jailtime if I turn myself in?
2023-03-30T16:55:21 < Steffanx-> You don't want a discount. It's already free
2023-03-30T16:56:51 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/5Zr/plain  here is a template to use
2023-03-30T16:57:12 < mawk> lol
2023-03-30T16:58:07 < Steffanx-> Oh it might not be free actually 
2023-03-30T16:59:51 < Steffanx-> Can't the bot do it in dutch jpa-?
2023-03-30T17:05:10 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/5hm/plain  of course it can
2023-03-30T17:07:30 < mawk> een gekke machine gebruikte
2023-03-30T17:07:30 < mawk> lol
2023-03-30T17:16:23 < Steffanx-> Steffan Naffets. Now people think that's my last name. I recall jbo thought that for a while as well.
2023-03-30T17:17:18 < Steffanx-> Mawk is stout. Awh.
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2023-03-30T17:18:18 < mawk> lol
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2023-03-30T19:07:12 < jbo> sup
2023-03-30T19:07:30 < jbo> Steffanx- :D
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2023-03-30T20:47:04 < mawk> jbo = jimbob
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2023-03-30T21:03:45 < Steffanx-> jimbo.
2023-03-30T21:19:12 < Posterdati> hi
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2023-03-30T21:20:37 < Posterdati> please help, which is the maximum core speed for the stm32h723? It is stated that it could reach 550 MHz, but configuring the PLL1 for that frequency, hangs the CPU, but 480 MHz with PLL1 works!
2023-03-30T21:28:46 < srk> you might need to increase flash latency (number of wait states) to compensate for high core speeds
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2023-03-30T22:22:26 < mawk> the Albert Heijn uploads the transaction after payment, my plan failed
2023-03-30T22:22:50 < mawk> or I'd have to glitch the vending machine so that it doesn't upload
2023-03-30T22:23:05 < mawk> there's the power plug right next to it lol
2023-03-30T22:23:20 < mawk> but it would probably look weird if I started unplugging devices in a supermarket
2023-03-30T22:44:10 < qyx> matlab pros, inverse of polyval?
2023-03-30T22:44:19 < qyx> I want to find x
2023-03-30T22:44:31 < Steffanx-> Laurenceb make yourself useful 
2023-03-30T22:59:12 < Posterdati> srk: I placed values from flash device manual
2023-03-30T22:59:35 < Posterdati> 3 WS and WRHIGHFREQ = 0b11
2023-03-30T23:01:01 < Posterdati> and VOS0
--- Day changed pe maalis 31 2023
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2023-03-31T01:13:47 < Laurence_b> https://ivolimited.us/press-release-ivo-ltd-introduces-the-worlds-first-pure-electric-thruster-for-satellites/
2023-03-31T01:14:50 < Laurence_b> kek wtf https://ivolimited.us/technology/
2023-03-31T01:19:12 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2023-03-31T01:19:16 < Laurence_b>  Mike McCulloch has been busy
2023-03-31T01:24:46 < BrainDamage> I mean, it'd be legit if it was 3nN/W
2023-03-31T01:25:01 < Laurence_b> >The mitochondrial DNA (from the mother) presented mutations unknown to any man, primate or any other animal and the mutations suggested we are dealing with a completely new human-like being
2023-03-31T01:25:14 < Laurence_b> wtf lmao he has jumped the shark now
2023-03-31T01:25:46 < Laurence_b> Mike McCulloch claims to have discovered a new life form
2023-03-31T01:26:40 < Laurence_b> loll imagine if he was you professor >pay stupid high tuition fees >McCulloch is ur professor
2023-03-31T01:32:04 < qyx> who is the nfc pro
2023-03-31T01:32:10 < qyx> zap maybe
2023-03-31T01:32:20 < qyx> ST23R y/n? is there a cheaper alternative?
2023-03-31T01:32:27 < qyx> sorry ST25R
2023-03-31T01:33:12 < Laurence_b> https://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6524
2023-03-31T01:33:17 < Laurence_b> kekking hard
2023-03-31T01:33:41 < mawk> for what qyx ?
2023-03-31T01:33:48 < mawk> what nfcing do you want to nfc
2023-03-31T01:34:27 < mawk> qyx: find the root of p-a if you want the x such that p(x) = a
2023-03-31T01:34:38 < mawk> in methlab
2023-03-31T01:35:50 < qyx> I eyeballed the curve and applied an educated guess, then hardcoded the values
2023-03-31T01:35:58 < qyx> It worked flawlessly
2023-03-31T01:36:01 < mawk> lol
2023-03-31T01:36:35 < mawk> you can also plot the curve and rotate it around the y = x line
2023-03-31T01:36:41 < mawk> but this might not yield unique points
2023-03-31T01:36:48 < mawk> that's how you numerically invert a function
2023-03-31T01:36:57 < qyx> re nfc, I am investigating the possibilities to configure a device
2023-03-31T01:37:17 < mawk> so a simple nfc eeprom chip thing?
2023-03-31T01:37:17 < qyx> the problematic part is that a part of the configuration is on an analol paper
2023-03-31T01:37:24 < mawk> with possibility of passthrough to talk to your device if you want
2023-03-31T01:37:35 < mawk> st25r is pretty good for that
2023-03-31T01:37:44 < mawk> a
2023-03-31T01:37:46 < mawk> ocr it
2023-03-31T01:37:51 < qyx> so yeah I want to have something I can write from the phone to update the config
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2023-03-31T01:38:07 < qyx> and also to be able to scan calibration data tag glued to the certificate
2023-03-31T01:38:54 < qyx> but maybe i am just overengineering it because when the device is taken fom the field to the lab to recalibrate it
2023-03-31T01:39:09 < qyx> I can also connect a diagnostic cable and upload new data over it
2023-03-31T01:39:57 < qyx> the only use case I am dealing with is when you mess firmware update and you accidentally erase your calibration coefficients
2023-03-31T01:40:00 < mawk> well with a st25r you have a eeprom you can read without the device even being awake
2023-03-31T01:40:09 < BrainDamage> the only advantage of nfc is that you can make a sealed package
2023-03-31T01:40:10 < mawk> but also passthrough mode to do further magic
2023-03-31T01:40:23 < mawk> like flash the device or something
2023-03-31T01:40:33 < qyx> ok fuk this idea
2023-03-31T01:40:54 < mawk> we wanted to do rfid for labels and programming and all that
2023-03-31T01:40:57 < mawk> but we never implemented it
2023-03-31T01:40:59 < qyx> I can also do BLE using esp32 if I am going that far
2023-03-31T01:41:02 < mawk> and now it's taking a bunch of pins for nothing
2023-03-31T01:41:24 < mawk> well being able to continuously scan IDs using a big antenna on a production line of some sort is useful
2023-03-31T01:41:33 < mawk> but you can do the same with stickers and a qrcode reader I guess
2023-03-31T01:42:22 < qyx> nope, trash the whole idea
2023-03-31T01:42:33 < qyx> this is a research and industrial device
2023-03-31T01:42:38 < qyx> and not a consumer sh*t
2023-03-31T01:42:46 < qyx> so no NFC, no BLE, no WiFi
2023-03-31T01:42:55 < qyx> just a plain lold serial cable
2023-03-31T01:43:01 < mawk> lold
2023-03-31T01:43:43 < qyx> the current state of art we are using has 2 buttons and a single 7-segment LED
2023-03-31T01:44:33 < BrainDamage> do you have to enter the program serially on the buttons?
2023-03-31T01:44:57 < qyx> there is a whole use manual book for that
2023-03-31T01:45:06 < qyx> with all the combinations and symbols
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2023-03-31T09:00:35 < jpa-> Posterdati: did you enable CPU_FREQ_BOOST in SYSCFG->UR18?
2023-03-31T09:01:07 < jpa-> otherwise it is max 520 MHz
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2023-03-31T09:21:35 < mawk> I patched libnfc to work better with the PC/SC driver 
2023-03-31T09:23:04 < mawk> ie every nfc reader on earth except acr122u/acr122s/pn532/pn751x will be using that driver
2023-03-31T09:23:32 < mawk> I made it so it's possible to get the SAK and (guesstimate of) the ATQA from the card
2023-03-31T09:23:40 < mawk> to correctly identify the card type
2023-03-31T09:23:57 < mawk> https://bpa.st/IVF2A look at this beauty
2023-03-31T09:25:31 < mawk> actually the SAK is exact only for the identiv 3700F cloud (my reader) and some chinese crap reader, for the rest it's an educated guess
2023-03-31T09:25:49 < mawk> but it's better than the insane hardcoded values they had before
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2023-03-31T09:46:29 < Posterdati> jpa-: UR18 is r, I did so in FLASH OPTSR2_PRG
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2023-03-31T10:28:18 < jadew> the included java linter finds only stuff that isn't a problem
2023-03-31T10:29:05 < jadew> I pity the people who have to generate lint-error free code
2023-03-31T10:30:26 < jadew> "Boolean function always inverted" - that's an actual warning
2023-03-31T10:30:52 < jadew> as if you didn't meant it when you wrote it like that...
2023-03-31T10:31:40 < jadew> what that warning means is that you have a function like isVisible() { return !m_hidden; } // This would generate that warning.
2023-03-31T10:42:46 < Posterdati> jpa-: it is difficult to read or write something from resetted and not enable peripheral :)
2023-03-31T10:47:12 < jpa-> so #1 :)
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2023-03-31T11:02:53 < jpa-> hmm.. one of those days that i'm not sure if i'm mad or genious - i'm seriously contemplating writing a kind of microcode CPU using RP2040 DMA to do realtime stuff that requires memory access
2023-03-31T11:03:48 < jpa-> avoids the interrupt latency and memory access by DMA is faster than by cortex-m0+
2023-03-31T11:03:51 < zyp> it's a cute idea, but can you get it to go fast enough to be useful?
2023-03-31T11:04:49 < jpa-> i hope i can - i calculate about 6 cycles to load DMA control block, and then about 2 cycles to execute it; so maybe around 10 cycles per microcode instruction
2023-03-31T11:05:12 < jpa-> it should be able to get the first memory transfer done before the CPU would even get to interrupt handler
2023-03-31T11:06:09 < jpa-> though hmm, that ignores the first step where the microcode address needs to be loaded, so a few cycles more there.. this starts to build up
2023-03-31T11:07:45 < jpa-> i have 30 cycles available, so it is kind-of doable with CPU, especially if i busy loop instead of using interrupts
2023-03-31T11:10:33 < jpa-> need to get address from PIO and then transfer corresponding data back to PIO fast enough, and after that run other stuff depending on the address involved
2023-03-31T11:11:24 < jpa-> i guess with CPU the best way would be to busy-loop until I get bus address, and then use that as a code pointer to jump to
2023-03-31T11:25:11 < Posterdati> jpa-: enabled SYSCFG clock and deassert reset, UR18 -> CPU_FREQ_BOOST = 1, still not working when switching sys_ck to pll1_p
2023-03-31T11:27:35 < qyx> I am wondering how much time you are willing to invest in investigating 480->550 MHz issue in this state of the project
2023-03-31T11:28:30 < Posterdati> using PLL1 in fractional mode: DIVM = 4 (ref_ck = 64 MHz HSI), DIVN = 34, DIVP = 0, DIVQ = 1, DIVR = 1, FRACN = 3072 
2023-03-31T11:28:51 < Posterdati> PLL1RDY = 1
2023-03-31T11:34:39 < qyx> DIVP1 cannot be 0
2023-03-31T11:34:40 < qyx> is it 1?
2023-03-31T11:35:12 < Posterdati> if you set to zero it means 1
2023-03-31T11:35:39 < qyx> DIVP is 1, which is interpreted in the register config as 0000
2023-03-31T11:36:00 < qyx> I am asking because you said DIVM=4
2023-03-31T11:36:16 < qyx> si is the actual DIVM == 4 or should I assume you are saying 5?
2023-03-31T11:37:33 < Posterdati> DIVM is different
2023-03-31T11:37:41 < Posterdati> DIVM = 4 means /4
2023-03-31T11:39:43 < qyx> ok those values are exactly as the RM says in the corresponding section, CubeMX tool assumes that too
2023-03-31T11:40:27 < qyx> if you are saying DIV is 4, it divides by 4
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2023-03-31T11:40:33 < qyx> register interpertation is irrelevant here
2023-03-31T11:40:59 < qyx> also, instead of the weird fractional configuration
2023-03-31T11:41:20 < qyx> why arent you simply using DIVM = 32 and DIVN = 275 to get 550 MHz?
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2023-03-31T11:42:00 < Posterdati> with integer config?
2023-03-31T11:42:07 < qyx> yes
2023-03-31T11:42:18 < Posterdati> let me try it
2023-03-31T11:42:36 < qyx> also you have to set HPRE divider to 2, AXI/AHB max clock is 275
2023-03-31T11:42:56 < Posterdati> yes I did that before enabling the PLL
2023-03-31T11:43:11 < qyx> and all APB dividers to 2
2023-03-31T11:43:15 < Posterdati> yes
2023-03-31T11:43:30 < Posterdati> which deliver a /4 sysclk to all busses
2023-03-31T11:43:55 < Posterdati> 137.5 MHz to them
2023-03-31T11:51:48 < Posterdati> qyx: same problem
2023-03-31T11:55:13 < Posterdati> the cpu jumps to 0x00000000 when writing back the SW switch
2023-03-31T11:57:15 < jpa-> if you put some predivider at 2x, so that it runs at 550/2 = 275 MHz, does it run correctly and is the frequency correct?
2023-03-31T11:57:27 < Posterdati> yes
2023-03-31T11:57:54 < Posterdati> 480 Works
2023-03-31T11:57:57 < Posterdati> 544 works
2023-03-31T11:58:34 < Posterdati> what about VOS? I set it to Scale 0 
2023-03-31T11:58:40 < jpa-> but does 550/2 work, i.e. this verifies that your 550 config is actually 550, by only changing a predivider
2023-03-31T11:58:54 < Posterdati> the P divider?
2023-03-31T11:59:01 < Posterdati> let me try it
2023-03-31T12:00:37 < jpa-> yeah, P is probably best because it still keeps the PLL frequency the same
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2023-03-31T12:01:00 < Posterdati> yes it works with DIVP = 1
2023-03-31T12:01:14 < Posterdati> means VCO Clock / 2
2023-03-31T12:01:21 < jpa-> can you measure (by timer or otherwise) that the frequency is actually 275 MHz then?
2023-03-31T12:02:57 < Posterdati> should I use MCO2 pin?
2023-03-31T12:04:26 < jpa-> yes, if you have that and a scope/logic analyzer
2023-03-31T12:04:47 < jpa-> you can also put some timer loop that prints a counter once a second or similar
2023-03-31T12:06:42 < Posterdati> is the table 16 at page 161 correct?
2023-03-31T12:07:23 < Posterdati> I programmed wait states and programming delay before setting up the pll
2023-03-31T12:08:14 < Posterdati> the config is LATENCY = 3WS, WRHIGHFREQ = 0b11, VOS0 
2023-03-31T12:15:09 < qyx> are you checking VOSRDY
2023-03-31T12:16:36 < qyx> also ACTVOS and ACTVOSRDY
2023-03-31T12:16:55 < Posterdati> yes
2023-03-31T12:18:36 < qyx> anyway if 544 works and 550 not it is probably not a hardware issue
2023-03-31T12:18:46 < qyx> I would rather expect a off by one error somewhere
2023-03-31T12:18:55 < qyx> corrupting the whole computation
2023-03-31T12:19:12 < qyx> *considerably*
2023-03-31T12:19:27 < qyx> like setting 1100 instead of 550 or so
2023-03-31T12:21:54 < jpa-> with the VCO max output being 550, i would expect huge errors to result in getting stuck waiting for PLL lock
2023-03-31T12:22:47 < jpa-> it seems to be pretty close to limit at 550 MHz, so maybe bad caps in Vcore or similar could also cause problems - though i agree that 544 MHz would then probably also break randomly
2023-03-31T12:32:53 < Posterdati> wait, ACTVOSRDY is not 1
2023-03-31T12:57:55 < Posterdati> :(
2023-03-31T13:04:43 < Posterdati> Ok, disabled the step down! ACTVOSRDY = 1 now and VOS0 scaling choosen, let's see
2023-03-31T13:05:58 < Posterdati> WOW it is working!
2023-03-31T13:06:05 < Posterdati> thanks people
2023-03-31T13:06:25 < Posterdati> was the LDO + SD enabled
2023-03-31T13:06:58 < qyx> disabled the step down?
2023-03-31T13:07:02 < Posterdati> if you need to draw power from PS you need to disable the SD which power the LP mode! Clever design!
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2023-03-31T13:15:49 < jbo> sup sup
2023-03-31T13:16:51 < qyx> objective-c, I hate you
2023-03-31T13:16:52 < qyx> https://til.hashrocket.com/posts/qfhkjip2pp-gcc-case-ranges
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2023-03-31T13:24:48 < Posterdati> qyx: it is stated in the RM, Table 30, page 237
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2023-03-31T15:40:50 < Posterdati> qyx: no, I was wrong
2023-03-31T15:41:08 < Posterdati> the problem is that changing VOS
2023-03-31T15:41:30 < Posterdati> seems that passing from VOS3 to VOS0 is illegal
2023-03-31T15:42:01 < qyx> don't do illegal things
2023-03-31T15:42:05 < qyx> mawk approves
2023-03-31T15:43:16 < Posterdati> yes!
2023-03-31T15:43:29 < Posterdati> ACTVIOSRDY approves!
2023-03-31T15:43:33 < Posterdati> ACTVOSRDY approves!
2023-03-31T15:45:55 < Posterdati> anyway
2023-03-31T15:45:58 < Posterdati> thanks people
2023-03-31T16:00:02 < fenugrec> heh, my distro's package listing : " extra/libreoffice-fresh 7.5.1-1 [installed]                                                                            │ extra/libreoffice-fresh-af 7.5.1-1"
2023-03-31T16:00:08 < fenugrec> damn that's fresh
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2023-03-31T18:17:28 < mawk> nobody answers me on reddit about the nfc 
2023-03-31T18:17:32 < mawk> where can I ask
2023-03-31T18:20:32 < qyx> don't ask to ask
2023-03-31T18:20:43 < qyx> my next project: long cable simulator
2023-03-31T18:22:27 < qyx> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/cable-length-simulator.1812040/
2023-03-31T18:22:39 < qyx> but this guy lacks inductors
2023-03-31T18:23:30 < qyx> http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/documents/cable_simulator.pdf
2023-03-31T18:25:29 < mawk> how can I get AQTA and SAK of a NFC-A card when using a PC/SC interface reader
2023-03-31T18:26:00 < mawk> the PC/SC protocol doesn't provide with these values by default, it only gives the UID and a weird fake ATS as a result of scanning
2023-03-31T18:26:13 < mawk> the ATS contains a NN short which is loosely related to the card type
2023-03-31T18:26:19 < BrainDamage> if you're far below the distributed limit, then capacitive approximation works well
2023-03-31T18:26:30 < mawk> but it's not a 1:1 mapping between SAK/AQTA values
2023-03-31T18:26:52 < mawk> there are a few NN values listed in PC/SC 3 supplemental 
2023-03-31T18:27:02 < mawk> PC/SC Part 3 Supplemental Document*
2023-03-31T18:27:11 < mawk> but it doesn't cover all cards in existence 
2023-03-31T18:27:22 < qyx> BrainDamage: I have measured resistance and capacitance of the cable I want to simulate, so just make it with a few caps/resistors?
2023-03-31T18:27:30 < mawk> and it's very tedious to take each card from the list and go search for the right ATQA/SAK online
2023-03-31T18:27:43 < qyx> I still think it will not be very accurate because the real cable has inductance too
2023-03-31T18:27:49 < qyx> or I need to adjust those cap values
2023-03-31T18:28:10 < mawk> I will look in the CCID driver (the layer below the PC/SC interface, that the reader is actually speaking)
2023-03-31T18:28:16 < mawk> but I don't have much hope
2023-03-31T18:28:55 < mawk> for now my code is using a vendor-specific APDU that gives the card SAK, and then I guess the ATQA according to the NN and info I compiled from dozens of datasheets 
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2023-03-31T18:29:29 < mawk> at least for mifare cards libnfc is now fully fonctional with any pc/sc reader so that's good
2023-03-31T18:29:51 < mawk> before it only supported acr122u/acr122r/pn531/pn751x
2023-03-31T18:30:01 < mawk> and some chinese reader I forgot the name of
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2023-03-31T18:30:16 < mawk> they should pay me for my PR
2023-03-31T18:31:27 < karlp> lol
2023-03-31T18:31:44 < karlp> did you speak to them first?
2023-03-31T18:31:48 < BrainDamage> qyx: yes, but first, calculate the wavelength of the highest freq you'll be using at, and divide by the physical length
2023-03-31T18:31:49 < BrainDamage> if that number is bigger than 1/10, then the approx won't work
2023-03-31T18:31:49 < BrainDamage> qyx: the inductance you won't see until you're near the resonance value ... which happens where the distributed model starts
2023-03-31T18:33:21 < mawk> no karlp 
2023-03-31T18:33:26 < mawk> I just wanted my thing to work
2023-03-31T18:33:33 < mawk> I'll clean up the code before making a PR 
2023-03-31T18:34:16 < qyx> I need 1 mbit/s so thats about 300 m?
2023-03-31T18:34:40 < qyx> 500 m of physical length is sufficient
2023-03-31T18:35:00 < qyx> so the approx only works to about 30 m
2023-03-31T18:36:28 < BrainDamage> yeah, above you'll also need the inductance
2023-03-31T18:38:20 < BrainDamage> you'll need at least as many resonators as wavelengths you have, in your case you have 1.5 wavelengths, so 1-2 resonators
2023-03-31T18:39:06 < BrainDamage> the layout should be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrapher%27s_equations?useskin=vector#/media/File:Transmission_line_element.svg
2023-03-31T18:42:00 < qyx> sounds reasonable
2023-03-31T18:42:13 < qyx> I need to give it a bit of my attention to fully understand it
2023-03-31T18:42:33 < qyx> now I am trying to get my CAN Rx interrupt woring
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2023-03-31T18:55:29 < qyx> https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32-rs/issues/456
2023-03-31T18:55:47 < qyx> I am about to resort to killing
2023-03-31T18:56:39 < zyp> that's SVD errors?
2023-03-31T18:57:03 < qyx> NVIC section in the RM lists INTR0 as 21
2023-03-31T18:57:09 < qyx> heh applies to libopencm3 too
2023-03-31T18:57:15 < qyx> #define NVIC_FDCAN1_INTR1_IRQ 21
2023-03-31T18:57:16 < qyx> #define NVIC_FDCAN1_INTR0_IRQ 22
2023-03-31T18:57:56 < zyp> so they fucked up the SVD and now everybody who generated headers from the SVD got the same fuckup?
2023-03-31T18:59:26 < qyx> probably
2023-03-31T18:59:48 < zyp> awesome
2023-03-31T18:59:51 < qyx> but still no worky
2023-03-31T19:03:04 < qyx> CAN reception definitely works because when I poll-read the FIFO, I get the messages
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2023-03-31T19:36:21 < qyx> interrupt flags are being set too
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2023-03-31T21:17:33 < mawk> I'm attempting to smuggle 10g of weed to France 
2023-03-31T21:17:53 < mawk> I sealed it in three layers of antistatic bags 
2023-03-31T21:20:37 < rustyaxe> why on earth would you want to go france?
2023-03-31T21:23:16 < zyp> transport card fraud is not thrilling enough anymore?
2023-03-31T21:24:50 < mawk> to see a guel
2023-03-31T21:24:50 < mawk> gurl
2023-03-31T21:25:12 < rustyaxe> france might alright if you didnt have to listen to them talk
2023-03-31T21:25:25 < specing> mawk: did you wash each of the bags after sealing it?
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2023-03-31T21:50:49 < jpa-> is there even any checks between nl and france?
2023-03-31T21:50:59 < jpa-> or do they only check people who look like mawk
2023-03-31T21:51:07 < Steffanx-> there is now. since you told them there is a bomb on the tgv
2023-03-31T21:52:02 < Steffanx-> Carried by a white guy with girly hair
2023-03-31T21:54:31 < rustyaxe> just mumble like you've got a mouth full of balls and you'll fit right in.
2023-03-31T21:54:48 < Steffanx-> he already speaks that fluently.
2023-03-31T21:55:11 < boddax> any experience with negative air pressure sensors ? (vacuum style)
2023-03-31T21:58:12 < jpa-> they are either just absolute pressure sensors (internal reference pressure chamber) or positive relative pressure sensors installed backwards
2023-03-31T22:01:04 < boddax> yes thanks , asking if someone tested , wanted buy some of them nice model well workin
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2023-03-31T22:02:10 < boddax> planning to experiment some gauge set for tuning carburettors
2023-03-31T22:02:11 < jpa-> any reputable manufacturer tests their products and they will conform to the datasheet
2023-03-31T22:02:17 < jpa-> digikey, mouser etc. will have plenty of options
2023-03-31T22:10:03 -!- boddax [~boddax@host-82-59-153-100.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2023-03-31T22:10:33 < jpa-> another case solved
2023-03-31T22:23:24 < mawk> yes specing 
2023-03-31T22:23:37 < mawk> yes jpa- sometimes
2023-03-31T22:23:37 < mawk> with dogs
2023-03-31T22:24:11 < mawk> my hair isn't girly Steffanx- 
2023-03-31T22:24:29 < mawk> it's very manly and viril long hair
2023-03-31T22:26:43 < specing> mawk: do you dye your hair?
2023-03-31T22:40:09 < Steffanx-> It is mawk 
2023-03-31T22:45:13 < mawk> no specing 
2023-03-31T22:45:23 < mawk> not at all Steffanx- 
2023-03-31T22:45:29 < specing> mawk: why not
2023-03-31T22:45:30 < mawk> you didn't even see it
2023-03-31T22:45:41 < mawk> I like my normal auburn color
2023-03-31T22:56:44 < Steffanx-> Yet i know. Because my you once told you confuse people 
2023-03-31T22:57:23 < Steffanx-> -my
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--- Log closed la huhti 01 00:00:58 2023