--- Log opened la huhti 01 00:00:58 2023
--- Day changed la huhti 01 2023
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2023-04-01T00:14:07 < mawk> why Steffanx- 
2023-04-01T00:14:12 < mawk> ah nvm
2023-04-01T00:14:33 < mawk> no it's just that people assume long = woman
2023-04-01T00:14:43 < mawk> but it's not girly like curly or dyed or anything 
2023-04-01T00:14:57 < mawk> just straight long hair
2023-04-01T00:15:04 < specing> dye it
2023-04-01T00:16:01 < Steffanx-> Have a color in mind specing?
2023-04-01T00:19:34 < qyx> I also had long hair in the past
2023-04-01T00:20:23 < specing> Steffanx-: nah, don't want to influence any colouring decisions :D
2023-04-01T00:20:24 < qyx> so I checked G491 errata and there's nothing inside
2023-04-01T00:20:37 < specing> qyx: same, and I'm sad I didn't dye it
2023-04-01T00:20:48 < specing> but too much effort to regrow it
2023-04-01T00:20:50 < specing> :)
2023-04-01T00:20:53 < qyx> I mean there is a lot of sh*t but nothing related to my problem
2023-04-01T00:24:16 < Steffanx->  Are you inventing new problems?
2023-04-01T00:25:22 < qyx> yes trying to fire my interruptz
2023-04-01T00:26:45 < mawk> what is your problem qyx
2023-04-01T00:26:54 < mawk> how long was your R
2023-04-01T00:27:24 < qyx> to sumarise the problem for late friday rubber ducks, I managed to get the comms working, enabled interrupts in the fdcan core, got interrupt flags set but the handler is not reached
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2023-04-01T00:27:36 < qyx> nvic enabled too
2023-04-01T00:28:02 < qyx> hm maybe exti has something related to the problem too
2023-04-01T00:30:43 < mawk> which chip eggsactly?
2023-04-01T00:31:03 < mawk> comms = uarts?
2023-04-01T00:31:18 < mawk> or can 
2023-04-01T00:32:24 < qyx> fdcan
2023-04-01T00:32:26 < mawk> you mean if you have a exti on the same irq line it will interfere?
2023-04-01T00:32:30 < mawk> but normally no
2023-04-01T00:33:00 < qyx> nope, some peripherals need to be enabled in exti too, for wakeup mainly
2023-04-01T00:33:14 < mawk> right 
2023-04-01T00:34:52 < mawk> how do you check if the handler is called, breakpoint?
2023-04-01T00:34:59 < mawk> or printf inside the irq handler 
2023-04-01T00:37:25 < qyx> led toggle :> but also an actual code should be run
2023-04-01T00:37:36 < mawk> o
2023-04-01T00:37:57 < mawk> are you cubing? and thus defining a callback
2023-04-01T00:38:09 < mawk> or rather defining a real irq handler
2023-04-01T00:41:04 < qyx> no, real irq handler in libopencm3
2023-04-01T00:41:25 < mawk> o
2023-04-01T00:45:16 < qyx> I don't fully understand the FDCAN_ILS register
2023-04-01T00:49:48 < qyx> oh fuk ST they can't even copy&paste from the bosch MCAN manual
2023-04-01T00:59:51 < mawk> did you find the problem?
2023-04-01T00:59:59 < mawk> NFC device: Identiv uTrust 3700 F CL Reader [CLOUD 3700 F Contactless Reader] (55021515201117) 00 00 opened
2023-04-01T01:00:01 < mawk> 1 ISO14443A passive target(s) found:
2023-04-01T01:00:03 < mawk> ISO/IEC 14443A (106 kbps) target:
2023-04-01T01:00:05 < mawk>     ATQA (SENS_RES): 00  04  
2023-04-01T01:00:07 < mawk> * UID size: single
2023-04-01T01:00:09 < mawk> * bit frame anticollision supported
2023-04-01T01:00:13 < mawk>        UID (NFCID1): d2  ca  eb  c6  
2023-04-01T01:00:15 < mawk>       SAK (SEL_RES): 08  
2023-04-01T01:00:17 < mawk> loooook
2023-04-01T01:00:19 < mawk> now all the PC/SC readers give a good value for SAK and ATQA
2023-04-01T01:00:21 < mawk> and I can crack my building entry keyfob with it
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2023-04-01T01:15:06 < qyx> now you can choose which thing you go to jail for
2023-04-01T01:16:45 < qyx> yes I found the problem, there are two actually
2023-04-01T01:17:11 < qyx> 1. FDCAN_ILS description is wrong, or better to say incomplete
2023-04-01T01:17:47 < qyx> MCAN manual clearly states that writing 1 to the interrupt group bit assigns that group to the INTR1 line instead of the default INTR0
2023-04-01T01:18:23 < qyx> reading the RM it may be tempting to set those bit to actually asign the group to *a* INTR0 or 1 line
2023-04-01T01:18:49 < qyx> so no, this register must be clear in order to use INTR0 only
2023-04-01T01:19:44 < qyx> 2. probably a SVD bug as zyp says, I didn't check, but I checked libopencm3 and yeah, you have to use fdcan1_intr1_isr() to get INTR0 interrupts
2023-04-01T01:19:55 < qyx> for the NVIC, use NVIC_FDCAN1_INTR1_IRQ respectively
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2023-04-01T02:12:02 < qyx> TIL first set the interrupt priority, THEN enable it
2023-04-01T02:21:07 < mawk> did ST integrate bosch's ip ?
2023-04-01T02:21:19 < mawk> and why you look in that manual
2023-04-01T02:22:31 < qyx> yes they did
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2023-04-01T02:51:47 < qyx> hm I guess casting uint32 to a struct with bitfields is not gonna work because of endianness
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2023-04-01T08:48:42 < jpa-> qyx: you can always revbits it first
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2023-04-01T12:00:47 < qyx> aren't there some cool macros like uint8_t field = BITS(value, 23, 4)
2023-04-01T12:00:57 < qyx> or do I have to make it myself
2023-04-01T12:01:37 < qyx> even better field = value[23:27];
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2023-04-01T18:05:18 < jadew> jeez man...
2023-04-01T18:06:02 < jadew> getWindow().addFlags(WindowManager.LayoutParams.FLAG_KEEP_SCREEN_ON); fails silently if the flag is set
2023-04-01T18:06:28 < jadew> fails in the sense that it throws an exception that doesn't show up anywhere
2023-04-01T18:06:41 < jadew> so your thing just stops...
2023-04-01T18:08:22 < jadew> I wonder if clear flags is the same
2023-04-01T18:13:15 < jadew> not only that, but setFlags(flags, mask) which is supposed to modify them is exactly the same...
2023-04-01T18:13:21 < jadew> the whole thing is full of crap like this
2023-04-01T18:13:45 < jadew> it's like a mine field where the mines are stupid shit you wouldn't expect
2023-04-01T18:15:24 < jadew> I don't even remember what I set out to do before I started going down this rabbit hole
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2023-04-01T23:29:31 < Laurence_b> tfw https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/Y2FyZF9pbWcvMTY0MTM0OTYwMzM2NTY0NjMzNy8wN21DZzNKVj9mb3JtYXQ9anBnJm5hbWU9ODAweDQxOQ==
2023-04-01T23:35:28 < specing> Laurence_b: something is missing
2023-04-01T23:36:01 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-04-01T23:36:12 < Laurence_b> the benis
2023-04-01T23:38:32 < specing> Laurence_b: cat/bunny ears
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--- Day changed su huhti 02 2023
2023-04-02T00:13:47 < jadew> that's some unique link
2023-04-02T00:14:55 < jadew> I bet it contains Laurence_b home address, the website he came from and all the links he clicked in between then and the moment he shared the link with you
2023-04-02T00:15:06 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-04-02T00:15:41 < jadew> looks like base64 encoding, so you could probably see what's hiding :)
2023-04-02T00:17:01 < jadew> I'm always skeptical of very random/long URLs - I think sometimes static resources are not as static as you might think, and instead are used to generate tracking links
2023-04-02T00:30:48 < BrainDamage> nitter is a third party client for twitter, the links are the same as twitter
2023-04-02T00:31:54 < BrainDamage> so nearly impossible for them to be tracking, because those work verbatim on twitter too
2023-04-02T00:32:05 < BrainDamage> just replace the nitter part of the url with twitter
2023-04-02T00:32:27 < BrainDamage> and you can even switch instance and the urls work the same
2023-04-02T00:32:47 < Laurence_b> yeah but then you get pestered to sign up for an account
2023-04-02T00:32:48 < BrainDamage> however, what you say is not wrong in general, especially on email links
2023-04-02T00:33:14 < Laurence_b> anyone know a modern replacement for LM138?
2023-04-02T00:33:30 < Laurence_b> cant find it in stock anywhere easy to buy from
2023-04-02T00:35:09 < BrainDamage> I mean, the fact that the links work everywhere, on every nitter instance, and the official nitter source doesn't do tracking, means it's not tracking done by the instance you're using
2023-04-02T00:35:52 < Laurence_b> LT138A looks nice
2023-04-02T00:35:52 < BrainDamage> and by using nitter instance, you also protect yourself from twitter tracking, since you're accessing the content through a proxy
2023-04-02T00:37:01 < qyx> twatter is bad but nitter is even worse
2023-04-02T00:37:03 < qyx> I hate it
2023-04-02T00:37:42 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-04-02T00:38:42 < jadew> I thought nitter was a meme twitter or something
2023-04-02T00:39:50 < jadew> because s/t/g/g
2023-04-02T00:40:03 < BrainDamage> you can always take one of the extensions meant to replace twitter links with nitter, and have it redirect to twitter instead
2023-04-02T00:41:08 < jadew> I'll give it a try, although, I don't use twitter that much
2023-04-02T00:42:56 < jadew> man... nothing works on wear os the way you'd expect it...
2023-04-02T00:43:08 < jadew> I ask for location, I get a success result and the result is null :/
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2023-04-02T02:26:17 < Laurence_b> today I saw a tranny in the supermarket
2023-04-02T02:27:00 < Laurence_b> but I thought they were a hot grrrl :S
2023-04-02T02:40:19 < jadew> what's commonly known as a trap
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2023-04-02T03:35:43 < jadew> I destroyed my phone today
2023-04-02T03:36:18 < jadew> I was remembering that it was IP67 compliant so I gave it a wash
2023-04-02T03:41:11 < specing> it's a clean paperweight now
2023-04-02T03:41:29 < jadew> and a future project (gotta look on the bright side)
2023-04-02T03:41:45 < jadew> I will eventually have to open it up and copy the memory contents
2023-04-02T03:41:59 < jadew> I have two years worth of photos in there
2023-04-02T03:42:13 < jadew> which I was also remembering that I backed up, but there's no backup
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2023-04-02T05:13:11 < jadew> are you guys ready for the revelation of the century?
2023-04-02T05:13:39 < jadew> chatGPT is also an image model:
2023-04-02T05:14:16 < jadew> let me rename the files
2023-04-02T05:15:28 < jadew> http://5.12.173.215/stuff/ai/The_sun,%20shining_over_a_valley_with_mountains_in_the_background.svg
2023-04-02T05:16:12 < jadew> http://5.12.173.215/stuff/ai/Picture_of_a_cat.svg
2023-04-02T05:16:53 < jadew> http://5.12.173.215/stuff/ai/High_quality_SVG_image_of_a_Porsche_911.svg
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2023-04-02T05:18:36 < jadew> oh that's a picture of a cat, wearing a hat, mislabeled the file
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2023-04-02T05:54:33 < jadew> lmfao, I asked it to write some code and it wrote stuff like this: const Δλ = this.toRadians();
2023-04-02T05:54:37 < jadew> which is actually valid code
2023-04-02T05:59:42 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2023-04-02T06:15:34 < jadew> writes buggy code
2023-04-02T06:27:18 < jadew> probably because it learned from opensource stuff
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2023-04-02T06:41:27 < rajkosto> greetings innovators you ever put a SFP port on a pcb
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2023-04-02T07:20:12 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone have a driver/library for EMC2305?
2023-04-02T07:20:29 < ColdKeyboard> It's an awesome chip but for some reason I can't find a "decent" driver for it anywhere :\
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2023-04-02T12:33:58 < jbo> sup sup
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2023-04-02T12:54:00 < Steffanx-> Tha sky sir jbo 
2023-04-02T12:58:02 < jbo> \o/
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2023-04-02T15:34:07 < mrec> does anyone know on the nucleo board if the board is powered via e5v does the red LED go on?
2023-04-02T15:59:35 < boddax> compiling old project with new cubemx i get ld error "multiple definition of `delay'"
2023-04-02T16:01:23 < boddax> https://pastebin.com/Gd0Exm56
2023-04-02T16:16:39 < mrec> got it the led is on
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2023-04-02T20:22:51  * josuah rediscovers https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/lm1117.replacements.for.glory.md
2023-04-02T20:32:23 < josuah> boddax: typical upgrade from older to newer GCC version where variables in header require the `extern` keyword otherwise it is defining them (hence binding memory to their name), not just declaring them https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1410563/what-is-the-difference-between-a-definition-and-a-declaration
2023-04-02T20:34:00 < josuah> boddax: I am also very unlikely to understand how Cube-generated code works, given all the layers above layers.
2023-04-02T20:34:30 < josuah> the STM32F7 example applications pushed me away from that whole environment (removing code made them work)
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2023-04-02T20:36:05 < kaki> Steffanx-: musicss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uMtnH7cABg
2023-04-02T20:36:55 < kaki> mongolian throat singing + techno
2023-04-02T20:40:26 < josuah> any hint about the reasons under https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/death-to-bluepills.txt ?
2023-04-02T20:40:38 < josuah> was it about the board itself, or about the F103?
2023-04-02T20:41:18 < josuah> I appreciated F103's support for CAN, Ethernet and USB (separately, rarely in the same MCU though)
2023-04-02T21:01:59 < srk> I guess f103, periphs have many bugs 
2023-04-02T21:07:31 < qyx> it is a super old mcu and there are many fakes around
2023-04-02T21:10:47 < zyp> f103 doesn't do ethernet, and it also doesn't do can and usb at the same time
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2023-04-02T22:27:49 < Laurence_b> prep the bull!
2023-04-02T22:27:51 < Laurence_b> https://www.pine64.org/2022/10/15/october-update-an-ox-no-bull/
2023-04-02T22:30:48 < Laurence_b> the Bufallo board is insane
2023-04-02T22:30:54 < Laurence_b> but no software lol
2023-04-02T22:30:57 < Laurence_b> epic fail
2023-04-02T22:35:27 < Laurence_b> https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Ox64
2023-04-02T22:35:29 < Laurence_b> epin
2023-04-02T22:42:20 < josuah> srk: that hurts badly, and I am weirded out that they did not get fixed by the time
2023-04-02T22:42:36 < josuah> qyx: can't argue against that :)
2023-04-02T22:45:01 < Laurence_b> http://thelittleengineerthatcould.blogspot.com/2022/12/the-8-linux-computer.html
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2023-04-02T22:48:33 < josuah> zyp: I am not sure about what I see here given what you say: file:///tmp/mozilla_josuah0/rm0008-stm32f101xx-stm32f102xx-stm32f103xx-stm32f105xx-and-stm32f107xx-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf#page=968
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2023-04-02T22:48:46 < josuah> sorry for the big-ass link
2023-04-02T22:49:19 < josuah> Laurence_b: that board looks very great and very shortaged
2023-04-02T22:49:47 < Laurence_b> josuah: RISC5 looks slow
2023-04-02T22:49:59 < Laurence_b> about 4 to 5 times slower than ARM at same clock speed
2023-04-02T22:50:18 < josuah> Just like all of the Sipeed gears, like all of the seeed studio inventory, like Raspberry Pis... ^_^'
2023-04-02T22:50:28 < Laurence_b> single issue with long pipeline and basic branch predict
2023-04-02T22:50:59 < josuah> Laurence_b: ARM has also gotten more complex to implement, they might not have the same goal
2023-04-02T22:51:41 < josuah> so good point, trying to run a Linux down something teeny small is for the least interesting
2023-04-02T22:52:09 < josuah> Maybe Zephyr? That could be some intermediate between bare-metal and Linux
2023-04-02T22:52:22 < josuah> comes with a few drivers like what you would get in Linux too
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2023-04-02T22:54:00 < josuah> What do you all use when you need CAN if no f103 grandpa?
2023-04-02T23:05:36 < qyx> G4 mainly
2023-04-02T23:05:41 < qyx> or F042
2023-04-02T23:05:52 < qyx> G431, G491, etc.
2023-04-02T23:05:57 < zyp> josuah, you're confusing f103 and f107, the latter has ethernet
2023-04-02T23:06:21 < qyx> also G0B1 has CAN, F7, H7, U5, many families
2023-04-02T23:09:17 < zyp> and yeah, I agree with qyx on this
2023-04-02T23:10:18 < zyp> «when you need CAN» is too general to give a good answer
2023-04-02T23:11:33 < zyp> and IME it's not really the deciding factor either, for a project that calls for CAN, most of the chips I'd consider for it would have it anyway
2023-04-02T23:11:51 < zyp> only the lowest end ones doesn't
2023-04-02T23:11:58 < qyx> yeah usually those lacking can are "access line"
2023-04-02T23:12:03 < zyp> and perhaps some of the specialized ones
2023-04-02T23:13:00 < zyp> start by defining what your project needs, then pick the most suitable chip for those specific requirements
2023-04-02T23:14:02 < zyp> otherwise you'd just end up with an underutilized h7 in everything since that's the most capable option :p
2023-04-02T23:16:00 < Steffanx-> In the current times i would still look for CAN first to see whats actually in stock 
2023-04-02T23:17:07 < zyp> is CAN the only defining feature of your project then?
2023-04-02T23:17:30 < zyp> anyway, in that case both g0 and g4 seems to have decent availability
2023-04-02T23:18:18 < Steffanx-> Surely not, but availability of many stm32s is still shit.
2023-04-02T23:18:40 < josuah> zyp: absolutely, that is the datasheet I went for various f103 peripherals, but that also covers all the other chips!
2023-04-02T23:18:43 < josuah> my bad!
2023-04-02T23:18:45 < zyp> Steffanx-, I know, I just ordered a bunch of different ones :p
2023-04-02T23:19:06 < qyx> incl. u5?
2023-04-02T23:19:36 < qyx> idk how did you decide, we were talking about some qfp100
2023-04-02T23:19:43 < zyp> maybe, let me check
2023-04-02T23:20:37 < zyp> f730, f407, h7b0, h730, u575
2023-04-02T23:21:02 < qyx> u575, my new love
2023-04-02T23:21:11 < qyx> h7b0 O_o
2023-04-02T23:21:17 < zyp> I still need to do a board for that, it's slightly different from both f4 and f7/h7
2023-04-02T23:21:22 < Steffanx-> lol even microchip knows https://imgur.com/a/UL7HEXn
2023-04-02T23:21:34 < Steffanx-> (when googling for some stm32)
2023-04-02T23:21:37 < josuah> «when you need CAN» sorry to give you a badly asked question to work with
2023-04-02T23:21:54 < josuah> when I think of it, that would be the same answer I'd give
2023-04-02T23:22:19 < zyp> qyx, yeah, it was cheap
2023-04-02T23:23:26 < qyx> in the pre-shortage times I was thinking "yeah those H7 are cheap, oh wow, P0.8 BGA! let's modify the PCB quickly!"
2023-04-02T23:23:33 < qyx> and then, the world has changed
2023-04-02T23:23:37 < zyp> these are all qfp100
2023-04-02T23:24:03 < qyx> (two years later)
2023-04-02T23:24:09 < qyx> oh I have some spare H7!
2023-04-02T23:24:21 < zyp> which ones?
2023-04-02T23:24:27 < josuah> ultimately, I want to try to drive some motor from CAN, I read app notes about driving h-bridges from timers https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/an4277-using-stm32-device-pwm-shutdown-features-for-motor-control-and-digital-power-conversion-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2023-04-02T23:24:30 < qyx> let me see
2023-04-02T23:24:33 < josuah> sorry, terribly long link again
2023-04-02T23:24:35 < zyp> if you've got any of the dual cpu ones, I'll buy some of you
2023-04-02T23:25:04 < josuah> CAN would be the most advanced MCU peripheral I suppose then
2023-04-02T23:25:25 < qyx> zyp: h753vih6
2023-04-02T23:25:32 < qyx> and some h7a-something
2023-04-02T23:26:51 < qyx> I don't think they are dual-core
2023-04-02T23:27:03 < qyx> I would have not bought dual core because I had no use for them
2023-04-02T23:27:16 < zyp> nah, dualcore is h745/h747
2023-04-02T23:27:25 < qyx> close enough
2023-04-02T23:27:56 < zyp> I'm mostly just buying various shit for the testrack
2023-04-02T23:27:58 < qyx> so, a bit unrelated, doing stateless crypto for my CAN stuff
2023-04-02T23:28:08 < Steffanx-> Just desolder it from a nucleo
2023-04-02T23:28:16 < zyp> dualcore is interesting because it's rare
2023-04-02T23:28:17 < qyx> so avoiding counters
2023-04-02T23:28:26 < zyp> and u5 is interesting because it's v8m
2023-04-02T23:28:33 < qyx> but, how to provide replay protection without counters
2023-04-02T23:30:16 < zyp> don't think you can
2023-04-02T23:30:29 < zyp> knowing that you've already seen a message is per definition state :p
2023-04-02T23:30:55 < qyx> yeah but there are "rolling states", ratchet, keys, etc
2023-04-02T23:31:21 < qyx> I am trying to think about it a bit more
2023-04-02T23:31:27 < zyp> did I mentioned the BLE stuff I recently reverse engineered?
2023-04-02T23:31:35 < qyx> if there is an actual requirement for anti-replay
2023-04-02T23:31:40 < qyx> no
2023-04-02T23:31:50 < qyx> mawk is our last RE pro
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2023-04-02T23:32:36 < zyp> they've got some homegrown crypto stuff
2023-04-02T23:33:25 < zyp> after a connection, you create a random nonce, sign it, device verifies, creates its own nonce, signs and replies
2023-04-02T23:33:43 < zyp> then first nonce is used as a session key to initialize a stream cipher
2023-04-02T23:33:49 < qyx> *you* both create and sign?
2023-04-02T23:34:13 < zyp> it's using CMAC to sign it with a known shared key
2023-04-02T23:34:33 < qyx> k I am listening
2023-04-02T23:35:00 < josuah> nice, impromptu CAN crypto class!
2023-04-02T23:35:09 < zyp> so, the stupid part here is that they kinda fucked up how they do the handshake, because when you get the reply back, you just verify and discard it
2023-04-02T23:35:22 < zyp> not CAN, BLE, but the transport doesn't really matter
2023-04-02T23:36:14 < qyx> I am missing something
2023-04-02T23:36:21 < zyp> so, since you pick the initial nonce, that also becomes the session key, it means that it's not replay protected because you can always pick the same value
2023-04-02T23:36:35 < qyx> yeah and it is not encrypted
2023-04-02T23:36:41 < qyx> is it?
2023-04-02T23:37:13 < zyp> no, but the stream cipher init also involves the same key as the signing key
2023-04-02T23:37:26 < zyp> so you need both that and the nonce anyway
2023-04-02T23:38:37 < qyx> I am starting to suspect "same nonce" and "stream cipher" being in the same sentence
2023-04-02T23:38:48 < zyp> :)
2023-04-02T23:39:36 < zyp> so, here's a video of me replaying a wireshark capture that was adressed to one device, to a different one: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ezvPZ.mp4
2023-04-02T23:39:46 < zyp> original device shown in the end of the video
2023-04-02T23:40:08 < qyx> oh lol your einks
2023-04-02T23:40:13 < zyp> yep
2023-04-02T23:40:57 < zyp> I've since also worked out the update command, the image compression and the image format
2023-04-02T23:41:53 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/782530207168069663/1089314957985849374/IMG_20230325_232617.jpg
2023-04-02T23:42:25 < zyp> I decoded that image from the capture, added some text to it, encoded a new command from it and sent it
2023-04-02T23:42:27 < qyx> you broke my whole pc
2023-04-02T23:42:36 < qyx> it turned off when I opened your mp4 :(
2023-04-02T23:43:29 < qyx> great
2023-04-02T23:43:31 < zyp> the only thing I haven't worked out yet that I'd like to do is figure out how to control the LED
2023-04-02T23:43:34 < qyx> how long does it take to refresh it?
2023-04-02T23:43:54 < zyp> you can see that in the video
2023-04-02T23:43:55 < qyx> iirc those dual colour ones were about 10-15s
2023-04-02T23:44:00 < qyx> I cannot open it
2023-04-02T23:44:01 < zyp> yes, something like that
2023-04-02T23:47:10 < qyx> I have the same e-ink and it started to be buggy after some time
2023-04-02T23:47:16 < qyx> two weeks or so
2023-04-02T23:47:22 < qyx> but I refreshed it every 5 minutes
2023-04-02T23:47:55 < zyp> this thing is rated for eight years battery life with two updates a day, or something like that
2023-04-02T23:48:05 < josuah> zyp: you have been reversing these! kudos!
2023-04-02T23:49:49 < josuah> eight years!
2023-04-02T23:50:22 < zyp> yeah, got an average power consumption on the order of 10uA or something like that
2023-04-02T23:50:30 < zyp> even with BLE advertizing once a second
2023-04-02T23:54:31 < josuah> good job little display fellas!
2023-04-02T23:54:50 < josuah> that is kind of a part that, if you want to play with it, you get to reverse Bluetooth
2023-04-02T23:55:06 < josuah> or some "proprietary RF" protocol
2023-04-02T23:55:30 < zyp> this is BLE, but nothing much interesting on that layer
2023-04-02T23:55:49 < zyp> it's just using a single GATT characteristic as a generic transport
2023-04-02T23:56:06 < zyp> and there's also some stuff in the advertisement messages
--- Day changed ma huhti 03 2023
2023-04-03T00:02:12 < Steffanx-> Was the key magic all in the open in the Android app? As in decompile and all visible. 
2023-04-03T00:04:32 < Steffanx-> Did something similar a while back and the key sharing part is the only part they hid in the app somehow (but was still easy to figure it out)
2023-04-03T00:04:46 < zyp> yep
2023-04-03T00:07:28 < Steffanx-> Heh fun 
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2023-04-03T00:21:05 < karlp> josuah: many "blue pill" boards also had incorrect usb pull up resistors, so they were barely functional.
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2023-04-03T00:27:26 < rustyaxe> win 11
2023-04-03T00:27:29 < rustyaxe> :(
2023-04-03T00:30:49 < Steffanx-> Don't install it. No need to complain
2023-04-03T00:31:12 < Steffanx-> Is you magic on your public git repo yet zyp? :)
2023-04-03T00:36:35 < englishman> isn’t it fun when you take your laptop out of the bag to use it but the battery is dead and your backpack is hot to the touch. I love windows
2023-04-03T00:38:01 < Steffanx-> I must confess i had this issue 15 years ago with my laptop running Vista.
2023-04-03T00:39:00 < Steffanx-> In your case it was HP to blame (i recall) englishman 
2023-04-03T00:39:11 < Steffanx-> A common known problem with zhe laptop you had
2023-04-03T00:39:19 < josuah> karlp: that sums-up to the plague that strikes newcomers trying to poke signals around I guess
2023-04-03T00:39:35 < englishman> I believe they share the blame as there is no true sleep anymore
2023-04-03T00:40:18 < englishman> also i still have the laptop
2023-04-03T00:40:37 < englishman> i just leave it pkugged in all the time and use the macbook rdp’d into it
2023-04-03T00:40:37 < Steffanx-> Install Lunix
2023-04-03T00:40:54 < englishman> still gets too hot to touch pretty often
2023-04-03T00:41:04 < englishman> requires several reboots per week
2023-04-03T00:41:16 < englishman> never successfully shuts down on its own
2023-04-03T00:41:21 < englishman> isn’t windows great
2023-04-03T00:41:52 < Steffanx-> What you guys do with your machines. i hardly ever have these issues
2023-04-03T00:42:24 < Steffanx-> Only problem i had lately was bluetooth stopping randomly. 
2023-04-03T00:43:11 < englishman> i don’t have that but i have to restart the windows audio service every so often to make bluetooth headphones work
2023-04-03T00:46:35 < rustyaxe> No i mean to /win 11
2023-04-03T00:47:17 < rustyaxe> one thing i will say about bluetooth on linux. pipewire. omg. so much better. lol
2023-04-03T00:47:36 < rustyaxe> the network speakers here just work
2023-04-03T00:48:08 < rustyaxe> it sees them spewing their multiscat cries and links right up and makes sound, even knows which room im in
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2023-04-03T09:57:11 < qyx> zyp: re nonce misuse prevention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES-GCM-SIV
2023-04-03T09:57:24 < qyx> that's what I used in the past
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2023-04-03T11:25:09 < Posterdati> qyx: hi!
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2023-04-03T12:06:28 < qyx> warning: range expressions in switch statements are non-standard [-Wpedantic]
2023-04-03T12:06:31 < qyx> such sin.
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2023-04-03T13:29:33 < Steffanx-> Yeah time to add offical support for this.
2023-04-03T13:29:47 < Steffanx-> Or does modern C support it?
2023-04-03T13:31:17 < mawk> nobody cares about official
2023-04-03T13:31:23 < mawk> -std=gnu11 is the new official
2023-04-03T13:31:35 < mawk> anything else is wrong
2023-04-03T13:31:50 < jpa-> yeah, who works in an office anymore
2023-04-03T13:42:26 < jbo> I do
2023-04-03T13:59:43 < jpa-> official weirdo
2023-04-03T14:01:04 < Steffanx-> But in jbo's office this tct guy is CEO, manager and engineer.
2023-04-03T14:01:17 < Steffanx-> I wonder if he also does the cleaning 
2023-04-03T14:06:04 < jbo> we have a cleaning lady showing up every week
2023-04-03T14:06:10 < jbo> but I tend to clean things myself :p
2023-04-03T14:08:34 < qyx> don't you adhere to a 5S?
2023-04-03T14:09:28 < jbo> I don't know what that is
2023-04-03T14:10:25 < qyx> how dare you
2023-04-03T14:10:40 < qyx> go get a course now
2023-04-03T14:10:53 < qyx> https://goleansixsigma.com/apply-5s-home-office-desk/
2023-04-03T14:12:00 < jbo> heh
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2023-04-03T15:47:55 < kaki82> zyp
2023-04-03T15:48:18 < zyp> sup
2023-04-03T15:49:03 < kaki82> std::function doesn't have constexpr constructor. I have std::function as a subobject and cannot make constexpr constructor
2023-04-03T15:49:51 < zyp> that sounds correct
2023-04-03T15:51:39 < kaki82> can I replace std::function with anything that has constexpr constructor?
2023-04-03T15:51:59 < kaki82> just C style function pointer?
2023-04-03T15:52:04 < zyp> maybe, depends what you're doing
2023-04-03T15:52:20 < kaki82> well callbacks and stuff
2023-04-03T15:56:12 < kaki82> if I don't need to set those at initializer list but default them to nullptr
2023-04-03T15:56:31 < kaki82> have separate initialize() that take those as a parameter
2023-04-03T15:57:31 < qyx> oh rip kaki, sanna is gone
2023-04-03T15:58:58 < jpa-> kaki82: you can use std::optional<std::function>
2023-04-03T15:59:25 < zyp> the thing about std::function is that it's capable of storing all sorts of callables, not just plain function pointers
2023-04-03T15:59:31 < kaki82> qyx: good news are good
2023-04-03T15:59:52 < zyp> and other sorts of callables has some sort of context attached, that needs room too
2023-04-03T16:00:11 < kaki82> jpa-: interestings
2023-04-03T16:00:20 < kaki82> that looks more like c++ way
2023-04-03T16:00:21 < zyp> which means that it's allocating it on the heap, and heap allocation isn't constexpr
2023-04-03T16:00:45 < zyp> so a std::function can't be constexpr
2023-04-03T16:00:56 < kaki82> I don't want heap
2023-04-03T16:01:31 < kaki82> C style function pointer it is?
2023-04-03T16:01:54 < zyp> maybe, depends what you're doing
2023-04-03T16:02:03 < jpa-> qyx: it's very rare for finnish prime ministers to stay for two terms, i think the last time was in 1990s
2023-04-03T16:03:53 < qyx> jpa-: maybe it means they are trying to do *something* and doing *something* fights the resistance of the masses, whatever the something is
2023-04-03T16:04:33 < jpa-> https://www.etlcpp.com/function.html   you can use etl::function but because it is not allocating on heap, you need to restrict the types of functions
2023-04-03T16:05:20 < jpa-> qyx: not really, it just means that people assign blame about everything to the current leaders
2023-04-03T16:05:47 < zyp> that's how it always is
2023-04-03T16:05:58 < qyx> oh
2023-04-03T16:06:15 < zyp> current leaders gets the blame for everything, even if it's actually a result of decisions made before their time
2023-04-03T16:06:21 < qyx> here the media is usually blamed for everything
2023-04-03T16:06:53 < qyx> or the "3rd sector" as we call various political and apolitical non profit organisations
2023-04-03T16:07:43 < qyx> "oh we didn't steal anything, the media is hunting for us"
2023-04-03T16:08:28 < jpa-> people blame politicians, politicians blame media, media blames EU
2023-04-03T16:09:53 < kaki82> zyp: your opinion about ETL?
2023-04-03T16:10:31 < kaki82> you have already made your own?
2023-04-03T16:14:09 < zyp> looks like it got useful stuff, but I haven't used it
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2023-04-03T16:24:37 < Steffanx-> Mawk you are wireguard pro. Did you ever run it on stm32?
2023-04-03T16:25:13  * qyx interested too
2023-04-03T16:26:57 < mawk> no Steffanx- but it probably wouldn't be very hard
2023-04-03T16:27:02 < mawk> it's not resource intensive
2023-04-03T16:27:10 < mawk> and it doesn't use any hw acceleration for crypto
2023-04-03T16:27:29 < qyx> I did run all the used primitives on stm32
2023-04-03T16:27:39 < mawk> the hardest part would be providing the right hooks and stuff for the networking part; you can either extract it from the linux port or the bsd port, depending on the style you prefer
2023-04-03T16:28:06 < mawk> or use the userspace port which might be even easier
2023-04-03T16:28:09 < mawk> but it's in go
2023-04-03T16:28:34 < qyx> you will need to replace those bulky ed25519 implementation
2023-04-03T16:28:54 < qyx> they are using lookup tables too much
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2023-04-03T16:35:20 < Steffanx-> There is an lwip port. Was just curious if you ever tried it and know it's resource requirements 
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2023-04-03T16:36:44 < mawk> the core crypto is like 1k lines of C
2023-04-03T16:36:57 < mawk> there's probably nothing to worry about for resources
2023-04-03T16:37:03 < mawk> if you don't care about super speeds
2023-04-03T16:56:31 < kaki> jpa-: you use that ETL?
2023-04-03T16:57:09 < Steffanx-> Im more worried about the wham requirements mawk 
2023-04-03T16:57:16 < Steffanx-> Speed is irrelevant 
2023-04-03T16:58:49 < mawk> dunno
2023-04-03T16:58:52 < mawk> I can ask the big boss
2023-04-03T16:58:59 < mawk> I'll tell you when he answer
2023-04-03T16:58:59 < mawk> es
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2023-04-03T17:03:59 < jpa-> kaki: i have used it in one project
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2023-04-03T17:05:50 < kaki> jpa-: any other parts you would recommend using?
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2023-04-03T17:26:53 < jpa-> kaki: all the parts i have used have been reasonably good
2023-04-03T17:27:17 < jpa-> some are a bit annoying to use because of lots of templates, but that is just C++
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2023-04-03T17:59:38 < qyx> so in 2015 I said "it is 2015, we don't have 80 character wide terminals anymore, we can make code 120 characters wide"
2023-04-03T18:00:59 < qyx> now, it is 2023, I am deleting this requirement from my list because we aren't using notepad anymore and if anyone want's the lines to be wrapped, they are free to enable this option
2023-04-03T18:03:38 < mawk> at my engineering school they would halve our grade if the code didn't pass their stupid coding style, which included stuff like 79 characters per line max, 5 functions per file max, 30 lines per function max, etc
2023-04-03T18:27:00 < mawk> Steffanx-: in the freebsd implem apparently it takes 300k of RAM for 3 interfaces with 1 peer each
2023-04-03T18:32:37 < mawk> you can maybe divide that number by 3 to get a rough approximation for 1 peer
2023-04-03T18:33:28 < qyx> lol i was about to say that Steffanx- should not expect it to be < 10K per keypair/peer
2023-04-03T18:33:58 < qyx> yeah and probably a pretty high stack usage
2023-04-03T18:34:18 < qyx> chacha20 and poly1305 are somewhat okay and doable even on < 16K of total ram
2023-04-03T18:35:22 < qyx> but x25519/ed25519 is problematic, you either get decent speed (about 3-4 curves/second on F4) but using ~50K of lookup tables and 20K of stack IIRC
2023-04-03T18:35:34 < qyx> or you get something very slow
2023-04-03T18:36:14 < mawk> steffie said the speed is irrelevant
2023-04-03T18:36:19 < mawk> so 1 byte per second is fine
2023-04-03T18:36:31 < qyx> for anything involving that curve you need to use static buffers and mutex them
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2023-04-03T18:41:21 < kaki91> jpa-: that thing has crazy amount of stuff
2023-04-03T18:45:45 < jpa-> qyx: i still find that so many tools don't wrap perfectly that i think manual wrapping at some limit makes sense
2023-04-03T18:47:01 < qyx> oh yeah, 500 chars sounds reasonable
2023-04-03T18:47:31 < qyx> but I totally agree
2023-04-03T18:47:48 < qyx> I hate automatic wrapping
2023-04-03T18:49:13 < Steffanx-> Lol. Not THAT irrelevant mawk 
2023-04-03T18:49:41 < Steffanx-> 100k. Hm. 
2023-04-03T18:50:25 < Steffanx-> That's not less than what the average lib uses with TLS magic enabled
2023-04-03T18:51:07 < qyx> it should be much less, because no certificates and narrower selection of algos
2023-04-03T18:51:15 < qyx> meh narrower, there is no selection at all
2023-04-03T18:51:59 < qyx> do you need an embedded implementation?
2023-04-03T18:52:07 < qyx> what are your limits?
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2023-04-03T18:56:36 < Steffanx-> 50k of wham. Few hundred k flash. 
2023-04-03T18:59:13 < qyx> doable, I would even say 32K of ram, <64k of flash
2023-04-03T19:00:40 < qyx> I did that in the past for a radio protocol
2023-04-03T19:00:52 < qyx> all the primitives they are using are definitely doable and even feasible
2023-04-03T19:00:57 < qyx> wrt processing speed, etc.
2023-04-03T19:01:22 < qyx> I don't know the noise AKE in particular, I used sigma and 3dh
2023-04-03T19:01:33 < qyx> it is probably very similar, there is not much to reinvent
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2023-04-03T19:25:38 < mawk> the cashier at Franprix called me madame
2023-04-03T19:25:51 < mawk> and he was blushing and insisting for helping put the groceries in my bag 
2023-04-03T19:25:56 < mawk> he must've forgotten his glasses
2023-04-03T19:26:30 < mawk> also he was an arab, not the type of person known for their respect of men that become women
2023-04-03T19:26:39 < specing> loool
2023-04-03T19:26:44 < mawk> more like pushing them off buildings 
2023-04-03T19:28:23 < Steffanx-> Thanks for the confirmation, mawk 
2023-04-03T19:28:28 < Steffanx-> Girly hair 
2023-04-03T19:28:46 < mawk> lol
2023-04-03T19:28:51 < mawk> no it's regular hair but long
2023-04-03T19:28:58 < mawk> not curly or anything 
2023-04-03T19:29:17 < mawk> and he saw my face, I have facial hair and not the jaw of andrew tate
2023-04-03T19:29:24 < mawk> but he still called me madame 
2023-04-03T19:41:34 < jbo> congratz on the NATO thingy, jpa- 
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2023-04-03T19:56:23 < Steffanx-> Too soon, jbo 
2023-04-03T20:08:55 < Steffanx-> mawk: the claims are not too bad actually " The micro has 64K RAM and 192K flash and that it is enough memory for a couple of peers as well as the embedded appliance's main application"
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2023-04-03T20:13:02 < mawk> o
2023-04-03T20:14:37 < Steffanx-> i guess i have to try it now
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2023-04-03T20:45:28 < Laurence_b> does anyone know if there is an IPC-2221 derived standard for high currents?
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2023-04-03T21:48:02 < Laurence_b> reee "authenticator app" piss off
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2023-04-03T22:21:08 < Laurence_b> surely someone has haxored this shit
2023-04-03T22:29:09 < qyx>  15 files changed, 125 insertions(+), 634 deletions(-)
2023-04-03T22:29:18 < qyx> fixed one line, still working
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--- Day changed ti huhti 04 2023
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2023-04-04T00:02:38 < qyx> hjalp, my stm32 is stuck in the system bootloader for some reason
2023-04-04T00:02:39 < qyx> xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x1fff5088 msp: 0x20002150
2023-04-04T00:04:03 < qyx> oh that's indeed the expected behaviour, my boot0 floats
2023-04-04T00:18:27 < Steffanx-> Hehe
2023-04-04T00:29:00 < qyx> nah everything works now
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2023-04-04T00:33:18 < Laurence_b> kekking hard https://nitter.cz/SteveBreave/status/1642888384434561024#m
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2023-04-04T01:13:50 < ColdKeyboard> Is generating STM32F103 USB CDC example still broken in CubeMX?
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2023-04-04T04:31:23 < ColdKeyboard> That's a first. Made a simple CubeMX project with F411 (black pill) and it's hard faulting during clock setup...
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2023-04-04T13:06:18 < jadew> more on how android is stupid and its developers retards: there's this function called stopForeground, that used to take a bool called remove_notification
2023-04-04T13:06:31 < jadew> so you would call it like stopForeground(true/false);
2023-04-04T13:06:50 < jadew> they deprecated it, and replaced it with stopForeground(int notification_behaviour)
2023-04-04T13:07:12 < jadew> where notification behaviour can be either REMOVE or fucking DETACH (do not remove).
2023-04-04T13:07:48 < BrainDamage> one of the most baffling things to me is that the OOM killer is directly dependent on a program window role
2023-04-04T13:08:12 < BrainDamage> with things having persistant notifications less likely to be killed, and it's why so many programs put garbage there
2023-04-04T13:08:40 < jadew> that's actually how it works, yeah
2023-04-04T13:08:56 < jadew> and that's what that notification is for (the one I was talking about)
2023-04-04T13:09:09 < jadew> and in fact, the level of importance of the notification also matters
2023-04-04T13:09:46 < jadew> that's sort of an understandable decision, because they want the user to know what's running
2023-04-04T13:10:20 < jadew> so if you drain their battery, they know it's your app and not the OS or something
2023-04-04T13:11:09 < jadew> on Wear OS the whole killing of apps and services is very aggressive
2023-04-04T13:38:48 < jbo> isn't WearOS pretty much exactly just regular android?
2023-04-04T13:39:55 < jadew> not entirely the same, but very similar
2023-04-04T13:41:15 < jadew> it's a much skinnier variant, but the guy in charge of the project said in an interview that they tried to keep it as close to base android as possible
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2023-04-04T17:20:59 < mawk> Steffanx-: after 10 back and forth of trace files and AT logs with ublox they finally gave up and gave us their tool that can decode traces
2023-04-04T17:21:01 < mawk> you want it?
2023-04-04T17:26:16 < Steffanx-> Sure. I have no use for it. But maybe i the feature
2023-04-04T17:26:17 < Steffanx-> In
2023-04-04T17:26:27 < mawk> well you use ublox shits no?
2023-04-04T17:26:34 < mawk> one day you will have an unexplainable bug
2023-04-04T17:26:39 < mawk> and want to analyze what the module is doing in detail
2023-04-04T17:26:49 < mawk> by taking a debug trace
2023-04-04T17:27:33 < Steffanx-> Only some nrf52 ble module so far
2023-04-04T17:27:42 < Steffanx-> It doesn't do magic traces
2023-04-04T17:29:39 < zyp> I'm planning to put some of the ublox nrf modules in my testrack
2023-04-04T17:30:20 < zyp> speaking of testrack, I got a bunch of pcbs today: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/998371828609327224/1092757264865181736/IMG_20230404_122450.jpg
2023-04-04T17:32:01 < mawk> you want the tool too zyp ?
2023-04-04T17:32:28 < zyp> for ublox gps?
2023-04-04T17:32:32 < zyp> or what?
2023-04-04T17:34:48 < mawk> ublox gsm/nb-iot/lte-m modules tracing
2023-04-04T17:35:00 < mawk> it's normally under some NDA bullshit and ublox doesn't want you to have it
2023-04-04T17:35:38 < zyp> I don't use any of that, but I'll keep the offer in mind
2023-04-04T17:36:12 < qyx> so it is very best to offer it on a public irc
2023-04-04T17:36:46 < mawk> yes
2023-04-04T17:36:47 < Steffanx-> Yes
2023-04-04T17:36:55 < mawk> don't worry qyx I'm not offering the file that ublox gave me
2023-04-04T17:37:07 < mawk> I just used the name of the file to find a "clean room" version of it
2023-04-04T17:37:11 < mawk> using google magic
2023-04-04T17:37:17 < qyx> lol
2023-04-04T17:37:23 < mawk> all the links are broken but I found one that works: https://drive.google.com/u/0/uc?id=1sGYiLtxFh44X4XM0Wifv45g4f9PWVO_9&export=download
2023-04-04T17:37:36 < mawk> also we didn't sign any NDA
2023-04-04T17:43:46 < mawk> what are your peeceebees for zyp 
2023-04-04T17:43:48 < mawk> that you received
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2023-04-04T18:33:14 < zyp> mawk, putting 128 different microcontrollers in a box
2023-04-04T18:33:27 < mawk> nice 
2023-04-04T18:33:45 < zyp> well, that's the target for the full setup, not there yet
2023-04-04T18:33:51 < mawk> do they all have a common bus to talk to each other?
2023-04-04T18:33:54 < mawk> ah
2023-04-04T18:34:00 < zyp> no
2023-04-04T18:34:06 < zyp> they're muxed, one at a time
2023-04-04T18:34:11 < mawk> right
2023-04-04T18:34:40 < zyp> goal is to be able to do automated testing of orbtrace against all of them
2023-04-04T18:35:03 < zyp> since dealing with target quirks is the hardest part of doing a hardware debugger :p
2023-04-04T18:35:10 < mawk> ah I see
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2023-04-04T20:20:23 < mawk> how am I supposed to talk to my SIM card from my pc
2023-04-04T20:20:32 < mawk> I found a smartcard reader and it detects my sim card fine
2023-04-04T20:20:51 < mawk> but apart from sending raw apdus there's not many programs I found 
2023-04-04T20:21:02 < mawk> I found "cardpeek" that can get info, but not really set it
2023-04-04T20:21:16 < mawk> am I doomed to just send raw commands to it with my own script?
2023-04-04T20:21:29 < mawk> using pcsc or whatever
2023-04-04T20:22:03 < mawk> I want to mess with the PLMN list of sim cards
2023-04-04T20:28:35 < mawk> Steffanx- a weird lady came to me while I'm sitting on a bench and said something like "mag ik je bekend?" or something like that
2023-04-04T20:28:42 < mawk> then I said "english please" and she left
2023-04-04T20:28:55 < mawk> no idea what she wanted
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2023-04-04T20:45:13 < Steffanx-> "mag ik je bekend" doesnt sound very dutch, mark 
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2023-04-04T20:46:00 < Laurence_b>  You use Free Software but do not contribute to it. You are a leech. This channel is truly full of stupid tech bros. You people have no clue how the world should work. You claim to be leftists but are actually corporatists that sit around and complain about billionaires being the problem. The typical loser from here would not last a week in the
2023-04-04T20:46:00 < Laurence_b> world they claim to want. If you have time to post bullshit on here, then you have the time and the ability to contribute to Free Software. You do not even need to be a developer to do it.
2023-04-04T20:47:17 < Laurence_b> new copypasta just dropped
2023-04-04T20:52:26 < mawk> no Steffanx- I didn't hear very well
2023-04-04T20:52:36 < mawk> she asked a guy next to me after
2023-04-04T20:52:42 < mawk> but he said the same thing as me
2023-04-04T20:52:52 < mawk> "talk english dumb bitch" probably 
2023-04-04T20:55:38 < Laurence_b> serious mode activated: does overvoltage of CMOS ICs typically cause latchup failure?
2023-04-04T20:56:01 < boddax> she was sexy mawk?
2023-04-04T20:56:07 < mawk> not really
2023-04-04T20:56:10 < mawk> a bit too old
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2023-04-04T21:19:39 < BrainDamage> Laurence_b: https://0x0.st/HXr8.jpg
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2023-04-04T21:24:59 < Laurence_b> BrainDamage: I'm reading https://lampx.tugraz.at/~hadley/psd/L13/latch-up/Latch-Up.html#:~:text=Latch-up%20is%20a%20condition%20where%20a%20low%20impedance,even%20after%20the%20trigger%20is%20no%20longer%20present.
2023-04-04T21:25:11 < Laurence_b> sounds like IO transients could cause latch up too..
2023-04-04T21:25:21  * Laurence_b is trying to work out why TGV inverters are failing
2023-04-04T21:26:36 < Laurence_b> they run off a 30V AC, 80kHz power rail, with comparators powered directly from a rectifier run off the AC rail. All failed IGBTs have a gate driver board with a cooked comparator
2023-04-04T21:27:03 < Laurence_b> I dont know if comparator failed before or after the IGBT, but transients on the AC line could easily overvolt the comparators
2023-04-04T21:28:11 < Laurence_b> then again, failing IGBT could possibly overvolt the comparator inputs via the gate driver tronics, but everything apart from the cooked comparator seems undamaged on the driver boards
2023-04-04T21:28:40 < Laurence_b> IGBT dies are all uniformly cooked, looks like they got to approx 500C, its really weird
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2023-04-04T21:30:57 < BrainDamage> have you tried to decap the igbt?
2023-04-04T21:31:09 < Laurence_b> yes
2023-04-04T21:31:30 < Laurence_b> we have also sectioned them with a band saw to see the depth of charring in the encapsulant
2023-04-04T21:32:01 < Laurence_b> every failed IGBT has approx the same char depth across the face of all dies
2023-04-04T21:32:46 < BrainDamage> if IGBT latch on, they'll cook up allright
2023-04-04T21:33:10 < Laurence_b> I know, thats the final failure mode, but we cant work out what causes the failure
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2023-04-04T21:34:52 < Laurence_b> only one die latches up, out of 32, so something heats them to start with
2023-04-04T21:36:44 < BrainDamage> are the failed inverters grouped spatially? I mean if the trains come from the same place
2023-04-04T21:36:53 < Laurence_b> my current best guess is it starts as a gate driver failure, causing gate voltage to go to ~7V not 15V
2023-04-04T21:36:59 < BrainDamage> like eg regen braking on a specific segment
2023-04-04T21:37:21 < Laurence_b> its always the power factor controller on the AC-DC converter that fails
2023-04-04T21:37:45 < Laurence_b> but no pattern of IGBTs within that converter
2023-04-04T21:38:01 < Laurence_b> there are inverters for the motors of the same design, but they arent failing
2023-04-04T21:39:46 < Laurence_b> apparently this has been going on for years and nobody has been able to work it out :S
2023-04-04T21:41:40 < BrainDamage> sounds like it'd be worth to instrument the inverters to see what fails first
2023-04-04T21:48:24 < Laurence_b> atm my only guess is transients on the AC line cause a comparator to latchup and cook itself, causing gate voltage to get stuck at around 7V and cooking the IGBT until it thermally runs away and one die explodes
2023-04-04T21:49:15 < Laurence_b> the power supply for the comparators just looks dodgy - AC to rectifier then 100nF cap and straight onto VCC/GND
2023-04-04T21:50:24 < Laurence_b> absolute max voltage is 36V from the datasheet and with my haxored 555 timer supply that generates 30V I can make the transformer resonate a bit and give 31V or so
2023-04-04T21:50:57 < Laurence_b> I should go to france and scope the actual AC supply on the train lol
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2023-04-04T21:58:07 < PaulFertser> Send mawk, he'd be happy with such a business trip to his motherland :)
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2023-04-04T22:14:02 < Laurence_b> this shit was made in the early 90s, then fitted with upgraded IGBTs in about 2005, but there is close to zero documentation
2023-04-04T22:14:43 < Laurence_b> gate driver boards are conformally coated 4 layer PCBs, not fun to work out the schematic
2023-04-04T22:18:49 < BrainDamage> I've used https://github.com/unixdj/depcb to decent success
2023-04-04T22:19:23 < BrainDamage> conformal coating, you can strip it using dymethyl sulfoxide
2023-04-04T22:23:09 < Laurence_b> oh nice
2023-04-04T22:23:29 < Laurence_b> inner layers are mainly ground and power, so maybe it would be practical to do that
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2023-04-04T22:26:38 < qyx> gdb pros
2023-04-04T22:27:32 < qyx> I don't have any trace output, no serial output, no swo
2023-04-04T22:27:55 < qyx> I wan't to periodically print a big lookup table
2023-04-04T22:27:56 < qyx> oh wait
2023-04-04T22:28:00 < qyx> a watchpoint
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2023-04-04T22:29:52 < qyx> oh that doesn't work with arrays
2023-04-04T22:29:56 < qyx> You may have requested too many hardware breakpoints/watchpoints.
2023-04-04T22:33:35 < BrainDamage> you can also shine a strong lamp to get the outlines
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2023-04-04T22:41:04 < qyx> the more I am debugging the more I am sure my python software is too optimistically written
2023-04-04T22:44:52 < srk> script gdb-mi to break, print, continue
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2023-04-04T23:15:18 < Laurence_b> interesting: someone has done a finite element thermal model of the IGBT failure - looks like the "thermal event" must have lasted less than 30ms
2023-04-04T23:16:21 < Laurence_b> from the locations of the thermal damage its possible to say that it was a heating event lasting tens of milliseconds
2023-04-04T23:19:46 < Laurence_b> but decapping of ICs reveals high voltage transients passed up the gate lines to the gate driver cards... its still unclear what failed first
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2023-04-04T23:57:25 < machinehum> Can you connect a bunch of ble devices to a phone?
2023-04-04T23:57:32 < machinehum> Say like nRF52 or whatever
--- Day changed ke huhti 05 2023
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2023-04-05T00:27:59 < catphish> morning
2023-04-05T00:28:18 < catphish> i finished tuning my car, gave up on regenerative braking, but the car is fast :)
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2023-04-05T00:30:03 < catphish> i finished tuning my car, gave up on regenerative braking, but the car is fast :)
2023-04-05T00:30:05 < kaki> hello early
2023-04-05T00:30:12 < catphish> hello mr kaki
2023-04-05T00:30:20 < kaki> catphish: it's a sportscar anyway
2023-04-05T00:30:54 < kaki> and doesn't that regen throw off perfect front/rear balance
2023-04-05T00:31:01 < catphish> 0-60 now comes in at 4.5 seconds, pulling 500A from the 300V battery and pushing 560A through the motor phases
2023-04-05T00:31:16 < kaki> and cook your cells
2023-04-05T00:31:28 < catphish> kaki: basically yes, not worth it
2023-04-05T00:31:43 < kaki> it's summer in there now?
2023-04-05T00:31:48 < catphish> it's nice for single medal city driving, but not that useful for me
2023-04-05T00:32:02 < catphish> UK is having a little bit of summer this week
2023-04-05T00:32:22 < kaki> here winter continues
2023-04-05T00:32:38 < kaki> it's sunny and warm during the days though
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2023-04-05T00:33:51 < catphish> we had a few dry days so it got warm in the day and cold at night
2023-04-05T00:34:33 < catphish> i went for a nice 10k run today
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2023-04-05T00:37:03 < karlp> machinehum: technically, classical piconet only specs 8 concurrent connections,but many radios and stacks will proceed until they run out of ram/config.
2023-04-05T00:37:31 < karlp> the efr32s I was using claimed to happily support 32 connections, but I never tested it.
2023-04-05T00:37:47 < karlp> I've also not worked, really at all, with the phone apis for bluetooth.
2023-04-05T00:38:03 < karlp> you can however happily have as many as you like advertising.
2023-04-05T00:40:26 < machinehum> hmm
2023-04-05T00:40:31 < machinehum> Interesting
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2023-04-05T00:42:00 < karlp> I've not really looked at mesh either, it seemed a little too bleeding edge for me, with all the other edges I was cutting myself on.
2023-04-05T00:42:39 < karlp> phones in particular, and especially ios, aiui, have done a lot of work on fast (re) connections to, so depending on what you really need/are doing, you can just cycle through connecting to a handful of them at a time if you do run into limits.
2023-04-05T00:43:25 < karlp> linux, and bluez.... is... not as smooth at fast reconnections, 
2023-04-05T00:43:47 < karlp> and my anecdotal evidence are that it has gotten worse in newer bluez, though presumably something else got better?
2023-04-05T00:44:42 < catphish> my bluez seems pretty good, but i don't have very big requirements
2023-04-05T00:44:51 < catphish> it instantly connects to my headphones when i turn them on
2023-04-05T00:45:06 < catphish> and seems to reconnect nicely if i wander out of range
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2023-04-05T00:48:44 < zyp> karlp, I saw bleak has some android support, trying it out is on my TODO list
2023-04-05T00:49:27 < zyp> because being able to quickly whip up some config utility or whatever in python that just hits some BLE characteristics would be a fucking godsend
2023-04-05T00:50:53 < zyp> for a project I've been hacking on some inhouse app in traditional android java that a coworker wrote some years ago (judging by the fact that the IDE is complaining everything is outdated)
2023-04-05T00:51:59 < zyp> and it's fucking painful to work with the APIs, I waste way too much fucking time figuring out how to do simple things like data massaging that'd be a oneliner in python
2023-04-05T00:52:05 < zyp> and dicking up and hooking together UIs
2023-04-05T00:52:44 < qyx> hm basically a template bluetooth app with python scriptability, incl UI
2023-04-05T00:53:04 < qyx> aren't many things common? search, pair, change pin,e tc
2023-04-05T00:53:15 < zyp> qyx, I'm referring to https://bleak.readthedocs.io/en/latest/backends/android.html
2023-04-05T00:53:34 < qyx> yeah I am referring to what you want :)
2023-04-05T00:53:38 < zyp> which supposedly integrates with python-for-android and kivy
2023-04-05T00:53:44 < qyx> oh
2023-04-05T00:54:18 < zyp> kivy looks kinda shit though, not sure I'm gonna like that, but python-for-android seems to have a few other options
2023-04-05T00:56:27 < zyp> ideally I want qt, and pyqt supports android, but I think that uses a different runtime than python-from-android, which makes it sound nontrivial to combine bleak and pyqt
2023-04-05T00:56:40 < zyp> python-for-android*
2023-04-05T00:58:38 < zyp> I'm also not sure whether any of this stuff supports doing background services, which you'd want to do if you're doing e.g. a datalogger utility
2023-04-05T00:58:59 < zyp> which is one of the usecases I've dealt with
2023-04-05T00:59:46 < qyx> there was one more iirc
2023-04-05T01:00:33 < qyx> or did kivi rename
2023-04-05T01:01:14 < zyp> no idea, I only learned about this a few weeks ago
2023-04-05T01:01:31 < zyp> oh, python-for-android does services, good: https://python-for-android.readthedocs.io/en/latest/services/
2023-04-05T01:04:29 < rajkosto> whats the go-to cheapo SMPS 5-legged smd chip for 12V to 3.3v DC2DC conversion
2023-04-05T01:05:52 < catphish> i never found such a chip :(
2023-04-05T01:06:20 < qyx> 5 legged D2PAK?
2023-04-05T01:06:34 < catphish> i ended up building an SMPS from a TI controller and discretes, would love a single chip sonverter for 9-16V -> 3.3V
2023-04-05T01:06:50 < qyx> LM2575 :>
2023-04-05T01:07:19 < qyx> what there is literally a ton of such ICs
2023-04-05T01:07:30 < qyx> unless you need 20 Amp
2023-04-05T01:07:44 < catphish> yeah those use external discretes
2023-04-05T01:08:05 < catphish> LM2575 requires matching inductor and diode at least
2023-04-05T01:08:30 < zyp> fuck bucks requiring a diode
2023-04-05T01:08:30 < qyx> those are the second most common switchers right after 5V input ones
2023-04-05T01:08:35 < catphish> and resistor divider for feedback
2023-04-05T01:08:37 < zyp> get synchronous bucks
2023-04-05T01:08:42 < qyx> zyp: sry </joke>
2023-04-05T01:08:48 < qyx> I would never use LM2575
2023-04-05T01:10:47 < catphish> this is my go-to circuit, low qiescent current, JLC friendly https://i.imgur.com/k8zgpik.png
2023-04-05T01:10:56 < catphish> but a single chip would be a nice option to have
2023-04-05T01:11:15 < zyp> what do you mean single chip?
2023-04-05T01:11:25 < zyp> that is a single chip
2023-04-05T01:11:56 < catphish> no, thats a single chip and 5 passives
2023-04-05T01:12:03 < qyx> switchers are rarely a single chip
2023-04-05T01:12:09 < catphish> i mean a chip with the inductor included
2023-04-05T01:12:11 < qyx> single chip and passives is called a module
2023-04-05T01:12:17 < zyp> you can leave out R13 if you don't use PG for anything, and the rest of the stuff doesn't go into a chip
2023-04-05T01:12:21 < qyx> oh you are a moneyed westerner
2023-04-05T01:12:24 < zyp> if you want that integrated, you want a power module
2023-04-05T01:12:24 < qyx> and a lazy one
2023-04-05T01:12:39 < qyx> check the ADI site, there are some
2023-04-05T01:12:41 < qyx> for 20 €
2023-04-05T01:12:42 < catphish> i am, but this design works well for me, which i designed myself
2023-04-05T01:12:54 < zyp> and even power modules often only just integrates the inductor, not the caps
2023-04-05T01:12:57 < catphish> fsvo designed
2023-04-05T01:13:07 < zyp> and also not the feedback divider
2023-04-05T01:13:40 < catphish> i'm happt with external caps, but fixed voltage with integrated inductor would save worrying about correct design
2023-04-05T01:13:45 < catphish> *happy
2023-04-05T01:14:10 < zyp> nope
2023-04-05T01:14:12 < qyx> no, this is the standard
2023-04-05T01:14:37 < zyp> even with integrated inductor, you still have to get the layout right, the caps are also part of the switching loops
2023-04-05T01:14:43 < catphish> the design i posted above is super simple though, so it works well for me, but it would be nice just to drop in a 3 pin regulator and not care
2023-04-05T01:15:07 < rajkosto> i usually use a AP3418 but that has 5.5v max input, STI3470 might be a good replacement for higher inputs
2023-04-05T01:15:23 < zyp> I mean, the two switching loops are input cap feeding power into the inductor and inductor feeding power into the output cap
2023-04-05T01:15:25 < catphish> i suppose what i'm saying is why don't the put a "module" in a smd package
2023-04-05T01:15:34 < catphish> lazy people would buy it
2023-04-05T01:15:38 < zyp> they do
2023-04-05T01:16:05 < qyx> open mouser/whatever, search for recom, aimtec, traco, meanwell
2023-04-05T01:16:10 < catphish> i'm sure they do, i think i limited by searc because i wanted jlc parts
2023-04-05T01:16:10 < zyp> also mps
2023-04-05T01:16:27 < zyp> jlc got cheap parts, power modules aren't cheap :p
2023-04-05T01:16:57 < catphish> yeah, i think that's where i ended up last time i asked this qurstion
2023-04-05T01:17:18 < zyp> hang on, I'll find you something nice I designed into something I never made
2023-04-05T01:17:21 < catphish> decided my simple design was a better choice, even for lazy me
2023-04-05T01:18:04 < zyp> here: https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/mpm54304.html
2023-04-05T01:18:28 < zyp> quad buck, four integrated inductors, i2c programmable voltages
2023-04-05T01:18:28 < karlp> zyp: yeah, it has some "python for android" backend, and there's some cross platform gui toolkit thing demo for it, so apparently feasible, but... never got there :)
2023-04-05T01:18:51 < catphish> that's a little excessive, but nice
2023-04-05T01:19:27 < karlp> zyp: fwiw, I wrote an entire bleak backend to talk to the silabs NCP firmware instead of bluez/p4a/etc, and it was actually pretty clean and straightforward....
2023-04-05T01:20:16 < zyp> I use bleak to talk to the eink tags I've reverse engineered, it's great
2023-04-05T01:21:41 < karlp> yeah, I was generally very happy with it.
2023-04-05T01:21:44 < zyp> catphish, well, if you don't need four channels, you can parallel them for more current instead
2023-04-05T01:21:55 < catphish> interesting
2023-04-05T01:22:21 < karlp> anyone ever stayed in athens before? anything I should know?
2023-04-05T01:24:34 < catphish> it's all greek t ome
2023-04-05T01:24:37 < catphish> *to me
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2023-04-05T01:32:56 < rajkosto> karlp, dont let the bed bugs bite
2023-04-05T01:40:21 < zyp> karlp, also, I just realized what you meant by silabs NCP; that's cool
2023-04-05T01:41:00 < zyp> I'd love something like that to be able to use it sanely on macos, the macos api seems limited
2023-04-05T01:41:20 < catphish> wow what happened to graphics card prices
2023-04-05T01:41:48 < catphish> they got *really* affordable again
2023-04-05T01:41:50 < zyp> (and limited even further by the fact that the bluetooth thing in my hackintosh doesn't do BLE, so I haven't even been able to try it properly)
2023-04-05T01:43:39 < qyx> miners not interested anymore?
2023-04-05T01:48:20 < karlp> zyp: the silabs NCP stuff I made a PR for, with round 1, was prepared to send the maintainer a couple of boards, 
2023-04-05T01:49:49 < karlp> I've since heavily overhauled it, and it's _much_ better now, and still open source as far as I'm concerned, though I've not made a new PR for it, 
2023-04-05T01:50:04 < karlp> https://github.com/etactica/bleak/tree/wip/multi-wrap1 just needs some cleanup before going up again, but not entirely sdure when/if I'll be doing that...
2023-04-05T01:53:01 < catphish> qyx: maybe
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2023-04-05T02:04:37 < zyp> karlp, so what device should I get if I want to use it? :)
2023-04-05T02:04:54 < zyp> I'm gonna do a digikey or mouser order some time this week, so I'll tack one on
2023-04-05T02:05:22 < karlp> been tested on bg22 dev board (the cheap one) mg24 dev boards (the fancier one, does zigbee/matter shit too) and bgm220 which isjust bg22 in a module form.
2023-04-05T02:05:48 < karlp> bg22 thunderboard is I think only 10 currencies.
2023-04-05T02:06:08 < karlp> bg22 "not thunderboard" is I think $20 (not entirely sure I remember what the difference even was) 
2023-04-05T02:06:29 < karlp> mg24 is more like 40, almost like they decided that this was a product they werent' going to underwrite and compete with esp32 or something.
2023-04-05T02:06:59 < zyp> so this will work? https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/BGM220-EK4314A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu3sxpa5v1qrkD3WkoL55j%252BYucD%2FhIjh0Q%3D
2023-04-05T02:07:22 < karlp> yep.
2023-04-05T02:07:44 < karlp> you'll have to use complexity studio enough to program the NCP demo on it, but yeah.
2023-04-05T02:07:56 < zyp> hrm
2023-04-05T02:08:09 < zyp> no precompiled shit I can just load?
2023-04-05T02:08:24 < karlp> and yeah, I never got openocd to work with these "series 2" devices.
2023-04-05T02:08:39 < karlp> It was always just out of reach... and just never enough time/energy.
2023-04-05T02:08:47 < karlp> I'm not currently super excited about it.
2023-04-05T02:09:02 < zyp> hmm, this looks exactly the same, just not module: https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/BG22-EK4108A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuqBwn8WqcFUipNgoezRlc4Fj3x7D16YMT%252BVV3txDW%2FNw%3D%3D
2023-04-05T02:09:03 < karlp> they have demos, to flash, but you do that all via complexity studio
2023-04-05T02:09:26 < karlp> yeah, I have one of that board.
2023-04-05T02:09:28 < zyp> doesn't blackmagic have some support for that?
2023-04-05T02:09:38 < karlp> no idea, I don't use black magic
2023-04-05T02:10:13 < karlp> I wrote what should have been enough for openocd, but was running into problems with weird jlink/silabs/v8m shit with halting properly.
2023-04-05T02:10:20 < karlp> it just never became high enough on my jobs list
2023-04-05T02:10:20 < zyp> oh well, I'll get one or the other and try
2023-04-05T02:10:41 < zyp> the bgm220 itself looks interesting for the testrack
2023-04-05T02:10:43 < karlp> I tried to "try out what the pros use" and all it did was teach me that pros using jlinks are out of their fucking minds
2023-04-05T02:11:02 < karlp> bgm220 is just an efr32bg22 in a slightly integrated package, for slightly more money.
2023-04-05T02:11:13 < karlp> both are well stocked though.
2023-04-05T02:11:27 < zyp> I'm so looking forward to have the basic testrack infrastructure in place so I can just start stuffing all sorts of mcus into it
2023-04-05T02:11:39 < zyp> did you see the pic I posted earlier today?
2023-04-05T02:12:00 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/998371828609327224/1092757264865181736/IMG_20230404_122450.jpg
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2023-04-05T13:47:15 < jbo> nice!
2023-04-05T13:51:07 < qyx> zyp: are those boards 200x100?
2023-04-05T13:51:19 < qyx> they don't look like 160x100
2023-04-05T13:51:25 < qyx> or what the next dimension is, 220x100
2023-04-05T13:54:49 < zyp> they're 160, which means 174 or some shit
2023-04-05T15:12:22 < kaki> jpa-, zyp: does c++ standard library or etl have some mechanisms to automate atomic blocks?
2023-04-05T15:13:05 < kaki> or something that could help as my types are automated and I would like to archive multiplatform code
2023-04-05T15:16:29 < zyp> automate what?
2023-04-05T15:17:07 < zyp> like a RAII disable/reenable interrupts?
2023-04-05T15:17:40 < kaki> yes
2023-04-05T15:18:01 < zyp> I guess the closest STL gets is https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/scoped_lock
2023-04-05T15:19:07 < zyp> where you can provide a Lockable that instead of being a regular mutex, interacts with the interrupt enable
2023-04-05T15:19:45 < zyp> that way you can use regular mutexes on multithreaded non-embedded
2023-04-05T15:21:18 < zyp> or https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/lock_guard rather
2023-04-05T15:21:33 < zyp> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/named_req/BasicLockable <- looks easy to implement
2023-04-05T15:22:19 < kaki> interesting but not really the problem I'm trying to solve
2023-04-05T15:23:24 < kaki> my problem is that as my class in fully templated and code should be multiplatform need of atomic block should be determined compile time for some operations
2023-04-05T15:25:16 < kaki> atomic types?
2023-04-05T15:26:56 < kaki> at least if types are known to be atomic on the platform then the operation is atomic and no need for atomic block?
2023-04-05T15:39:42 < kaki> definitelly good idea to use something like that lock instead of some precompiler macros all over the code
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2023-04-05T16:33:51 < jpa-> kaki: just give your class a template parameter of BasicLockable
2023-04-05T16:34:07 < jpa-> then the user can provide a mutex, a critical section / interrupt disabler, or no-ops
2023-04-05T16:34:18 < kaki> ah
2023-04-05T16:36:39 < kaki> any example codes+?
2023-04-05T16:50:59 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/9WsMTav55   having separate lock instance seems a bit silly when it is static anyway, but would make more sense for a mutex
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2023-04-05T17:50:30 < kaki> jpa-: and I can give KakiLock as a template parameter to my class?
2023-04-05T17:52:30 < kaki> have KakiLock in main.c then give it as template parameter to all things needing interrupt disabler?
2023-04-05T18:37:02 < kaki> can I release the lock somehow
2023-04-05T18:37:28 < kaki> maybe lock_guard(unlock)
2023-04-05T18:59:43 < jpa-> lock_guard is raiii
2023-04-05T18:59:55 < jpa-> if you want to manually release, just .lock() and .unlock()
2023-04-05T19:02:54 < kaki> this thing uses exceptions
2023-04-05T19:03:33 < kaki> I'll see if ETL have an option for doing it without exceptions
2023-04-05T19:04:05 < jpa-> so why not just use raii?
2023-04-05T19:04:24 < kaki> ?
2023-04-05T19:04:52 < jpa-> let the lock guard do the release when it leaves scope, no matter if by return or by exception?
2023-04-05T19:05:16 < jpa-> like in the example
2023-04-05T19:05:31 < kaki> ah
2023-04-05T19:05:36 < kaki> yeah
2023-04-05T19:07:02 < kaki> I need to see if I need to change some code structures to restrict time on scope
2023-04-05T19:07:17 < jpa-> just {} the scope
2023-04-05T19:07:22 < kaki> :o
2023-04-05T19:07:27 < kaki> you say whaa
2023-04-05T19:07:51 < jpa-> void foo() { {lock_guard; do thing that needs lock} do thing that doesn't need lock }
2023-04-05T19:08:01 < kaki> :O
2023-04-05T19:08:30 < kaki> I have never seen that
2023-04-05T19:08:43 < kaki> does it work in C too?
2023-04-05T19:09:08 < jpa-> it works for variable scopes, but plain C doesn't have RAII
2023-04-05T19:22:46 < kaki> I still don't know what RAII is
2023-04-05T19:30:33 < kaki> or I do
2023-04-05T19:35:42 < kaki> it means that you could use object constructor and destructor to do stuff
2023-04-05T19:37:20 < kaki> encapsulate resource into class
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2023-04-05T21:44:25 < karlp> hrm, already have a potential to contract to old customers :|
2023-04-05T21:44:30 < karlp> not really sure how I feel about this.
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2023-04-05T22:09:42 < mrec> hmm my uart dma transfer corrupts every few transactions, while non dma transfers are reliable
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2023-04-06T00:51:38 < Laurence_b> product idea: Zaleski sex doll
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2023-04-06T13:25:26 < jbo> stop shit posting, lau
2023-04-06T13:32:54 < Steffanx-> Nice try, jbo ;)
2023-04-06T13:34:45 < jpa-> jbo is being so assertive that i bet lb will finally stop
2023-04-06T13:37:44 < mawk> who's zaleski
2023-04-06T13:40:01 < jpa-> ukrainan war chief
2023-04-06T13:40:28 < jpa-> very sexy for lb
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2023-04-06T13:44:15 < jbo> idk I also posted a lot of unnecessary shit in my early years here but usually people grow up at one point
2023-04-06T13:44:19 < Steffanx-> Welcome back jbo 
2023-04-06T13:44:35 < Steffanx-> Lol. No need to grow up.
2023-04-06T13:44:43 < Steffanx-> You'll get boring 
2023-04-06T13:45:55 < jbo> boring is good
2023-04-06T13:45:57 < jbo> boring is stable
2023-04-06T13:46:01 < jbo> boring is predictable
2023-04-06T13:46:07 < jbo> boring is efficient
2023-04-06T13:46:11 < jbo> boring is safe
2023-04-06T13:46:29 < jpa-> boring is boring
2023-04-06T13:46:36 < jbo> which is good
2023-04-06T13:46:39 < jbo> :p
2023-04-06T13:47:00 < jbo> I did so much shit in my life the last 6 years or so... I want to go back to just being an employee having a boring life lol
2023-04-06T13:47:41 < jpa-> will you?
2023-04-06T13:47:54 < Steffanx-> Stop doing shit. Be helpful jbo 
2023-04-06T13:48:28 < jbo> Steffanx-, I really like how the "helpful" thing stuck for so long :p
2023-04-06T13:48:41 < josuah> routine imposed from the outside are a jail
2023-04-06T13:48:48 < jbo> Steffanx-, our one-bad-weather-week-per-year is over now. if you feel like visiting again we have great weater.
2023-04-06T13:48:57 < josuah> routine chosen by one self is a performance optimization
2023-04-06T13:49:01 < Steffanx-> I'm still no grown up 
2023-04-06T13:49:15 < jbo> that's okay, I have a guest room now
2023-04-06T13:49:46 < Steffanx-> Don't forget to invite BrainDamage . He felt left out during sexy times 😝
2023-04-06T13:50:06 < josuah> "be helpful" through a job in occidental countries very often means try to optimize a corporation profit
2023-04-06T13:50:36 < josuah> so much time spent trying to get more money from downstream (users, clients, contracts, accounting, marketting, management, tax optimization or worse)
2023-04-06T13:51:30 < josuah> so much time spent trying to spend less money from upstream (cheaper work, manufactures, contracts, HR department, peer pressure into better wage/efficiency)
2023-04-06T13:51:45 < josuah> so few time spent actually "be helpful" in the end in balance of the rest
2023-04-06T13:52:07 < Steffanx-> Jbo: One plus is that you must speak Dutch now instead of that gibberish swisserlandish,
2023-04-06T13:52:29 < jbo> uh, I started seriously learning dutch
2023-04-06T13:52:32 < jbo> then got distracted :/
2023-04-06T13:52:37 < jbo> now waiting for a textbook to show up
2023-04-06T13:52:47 < josuah> jbo: a boring textbook? :)
2023-04-06T13:52:54 < jbo> yes
2023-04-06T13:52:56 < josuah> nice
2023-04-06T13:53:05 < jbo> I tried duolingo but that fucking owl made me go insanely mad
2023-04-06T13:53:06 < josuah> (nice because boring as you said)
2023-04-06T13:53:23 < josuah> duolingo's owl is not boring enough
2023-04-06T13:53:38 < jbo> heh
2023-04-06T13:53:57 < jbo> I think you are getting hung up on something - don't become lb
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2023-04-06T13:56:53 < Steffanx-> Laurent Blaxteur. 
2023-04-06T13:57:47 < Steffanx-> Do Frenchies use the x much or should it be something else?
2023-04-06T13:58:22 < jbo> pas beaucoup
2023-04-06T13:58:27 < jbo> mais des fois
2023-04-06T13:59:13 < BrainDamage> parce que nous allons parler en francaise?
2023-04-06T13:59:16 < Steffanx-> D'accord.
2023-04-06T13:59:47 < jbo> tu es tres jolie aujourd'hui
2023-04-06T14:00:22 < Steffanx-> Merci 
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2023-04-06T19:44:51 < fenugrec> bel effort
2023-04-06T20:02:41 < Steffanx-> Didn't you like my highschool french fenugrec ?
2023-04-06T20:04:50 < fenugrec> well you said 3 words, but you're also the only one who didn't make any mistake
2023-04-06T20:08:19 < Steffanx-> According wikipedia a bit over 100 people speak French where jbo is from. Apparently he's not one of them 😋
2023-04-06T20:09:35 < fenugrec> 100 ? where
2023-04-06T20:09:40 < Steffanx-> +to
2023-04-06T20:19:39 < Steffanx-> That's up to jbo to say 
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2023-04-06T20:28:07 < kaki> sigrok / pulseview / fx2 pros
2023-04-06T20:28:30 < kaki> could I capture analol signal with fx2
2023-04-06T20:28:33 < Steffanx-> Try the next door
2023-04-06T20:28:40 < kaki> it has inputs a lot of inputs
2023-04-06T20:29:00 < kaki> also I want to capture a bus with one channel
2023-04-06T20:29:14 < kaki> so I have analol reading and bus communication both synced
2023-04-06T20:30:40 < Steffanx-> Don't know about sync, but there are fx2 based logic analyzers with analog channel in zhe list on the sigrok wiki. So yes you can
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2023-04-06T20:31:19 < kaki> well arent all the channels captured in sync
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2023-04-06T20:32:42 < kaki> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Arduino
2023-04-06T20:32:44 < kaki> oh
2023-04-06T20:32:59 < kaki> arduino can do 4Mbaud?
2023-04-06T20:33:44 < kaki> or that ATMega
2023-04-06T20:34:25 < kaki> never tried going much faster 192k
2023-04-06T20:35:03 < kaki> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Rigol_DS1000_series wuut I have that scope
2023-04-06T20:36:39 < kaki> makes sense to use a scope
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2023-04-06T20:52:58 < Steffanx-> Lol kaki
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2023-04-06T21:50:36 < thenoob> is stm32cubemx proprietary? i can't find the source code anywhere
2023-04-06T22:09:55 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2023-04-06T22:17:48 < Steffanx-> Yes
2023-04-06T22:18:08 < Steffanx-> You don't want to see the code anyway 
2023-04-06T22:18:17 < Steffanx-> Javaaaah
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2023-04-06T22:36:52 < thenoob> lol
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2023-04-06T23:21:38 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/S2wdgrkTnoc Sooooo yes its kinda spammy of me... But I just uploaded this. Its not even the full project video :D 
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2023-04-06T23:27:40 < Laurence_b> https://hackaday.com/2023/04/06/even-amstrad-spectrums-need-their-bugs-fixing/
2023-04-06T23:27:44 < Laurence_b> pretty sure its a man
2023-04-06T23:30:20 < Laurence_b> lol https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsIVglHagAILnNy?format=jpg&name=small
2023-04-06T23:30:51 < Steffanx-> Ohnoo the Brits are invading with spam and shit 
2023-04-06T23:30:52 < Laurence_b> its a man baby
2023-04-06T23:31:15  * Laurence_b is making austin powers real
2023-04-06T23:32:15 < Steffanx-> I've no use for it, but it's a nice thingy Mangy_Dog . Nice work 
2023-04-06T23:32:20 < Mangy_Dog> :>
2023-04-06T23:32:36 < Steffanx-> No trekkie here :P
2023-04-06T23:33:01 < Laurence_b> >Poland
2023-04-06T23:33:06 < Mangy_Dog> :p
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--- Day changed pe huhti 07 2023
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2023-04-07T07:58:23 < jadew> man, java is great... I love it when there are unhandled exceptions in threads, that silently kill the thread, output _nothing_, and the rest of the program just keeps going...
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2023-04-07T07:58:36 < jadew> I wonder if this is a generic Java feature, or if it just happens on Android
2023-04-07T08:00:20 < jadew> it's like it was created by a less than mediocre developer who couldn't handle c++
2023-04-07T08:14:34 < jadew> apparently java should display those exceptions, so it's an android thing
2023-04-07T08:20:49 < jadew> probably a catch (Exception e) { /* lol, I never learned how to code right, but google hired me anyway */ }
2023-04-07T08:26:40 < jpa-> Thread.setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler()
2023-04-07T08:26:58 < jadew> it's not my thread
2023-04-07T08:27:04 < jpa-> that's static method
2023-04-07T08:27:17 < jadew> still not my thread
2023-04-07T08:27:29 < jpa-> still you can install default handler that prints or logs the exception
2023-04-07T08:27:29 < jadew> I'm just passing a callback
2023-04-07T08:28:00 < jadew> you know what, I don't think I can, because by default it should already print them
2023-04-07T08:28:13 < jadew> so they must be catching them and not doing anything about them
2023-04-07T08:28:22 < jadew> so the default handler wouldn't help there
2023-04-07T08:28:33 < jadew> let me try it tho, out of curiosity
2023-04-07T08:28:58 < jpa-> ah, so actually you should just be blaming some developer who made that library?
2023-04-07T08:30:00 < jadew> yeah, that's what I meant with my comment
2023-04-07T08:30:03 < jpa-> i had the opposite problem some time back, a windows C# library where unhandled exceptions from a thread would kill the whole process so i couldn't do much to recover from errors in 3rd part library
2023-04-07T08:30:41 < jpa-> so what android core part is it? you can just check the code, right?
2023-04-07T08:31:14 < jpa-> https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/jb-mr1-release/core/java/com/android/internal/os/RuntimeInit.java#57   by default the handler is this
2023-04-07T08:31:15 < jadew> I've spent so much more time on this than I have planned, not going to dig into their crap
2023-04-07T08:31:50 < jpa-> yeah, that's what i do too - spend so much time doing useless messing around that i don't have time to actually look at the code
2023-04-07T08:32:28 < jpa-> actually that what i linked seems to be about system process, so it has to be replaced somewhere
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2023-04-07T08:36:05 < jadew> Thread.setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler did not help, it's probably what I said it is
2023-04-07T08:36:16 < jpa-> so what piece of code is it?
2023-04-07T08:36:26 < jadew> something from the billing API
2023-04-07T08:36:52 < jadew> don't think it's open source
2023-04-07T08:37:21 < jpa-> ah, yeah, google play stuff
2023-04-07T08:37:27 < jadew> yeah
2023-04-07T08:38:23 < jpa-> can't you put try {} catch {} around your callback body then?
2023-04-07T08:38:44 < jadew> that's what I did, yeah
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2023-04-07T10:27:39 < jadew> When you want to post an app on Google Play they ask you if your app could unintentionally appeal to children
2023-04-07T10:27:49 < jadew> like... how would I know, if it's unintentional?
2023-04-07T10:28:20 < jadew> and if you choose no, and google disagrees with you, you can't update your app
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2023-04-07T10:33:09 < PaulFertser> And if you choose yes?
2023-04-07T10:33:56 < jadew> if you choose yes, you get a label "Not for children"
2023-04-07T10:34:07 < jadew> but according to their own survey (which I took) it's 3+
2023-04-07T10:35:09 < PaulFertser> So why not always choose yes?
2023-04-07T10:35:26 < jadew> not sure...
2023-04-07T10:35:37 < jadew> thing is, I want children to use it too
2023-04-07T10:35:41 < jadew> it's for everyone
2023-04-07T10:35:48 < jadew> as long as someone is paying :D
2023-04-07T10:35:56 < PaulFertser> Children should just ignore stupid labels.
2023-04-07T10:36:14 < jadew> yeah, not sure how this works
2023-04-07T10:36:30 < PaulFertser> Publish on f-droid instead
2023-04-07T10:36:53 < jadew> didn't know about that
2023-04-07T10:37:18 < jadew> are you using it?
2023-04-07T10:37:32 < PaulFertser> Yes, it's default on lineageos.
2023-04-07T10:37:51 < jadew> and the apps need to be open source?
2023-04-07T10:38:00 < PaulFertser> Free software, sure thing.
2023-04-07T10:38:14 < jadew> I'm asking because I'm worried about security
2023-04-07T10:39:56 < PaulFertser> F-droid seems to be pretty popular and solid, with reproducible builds and all that.
2023-04-07T10:46:02 < benishor> jadew: what are you building?
2023-04-07T10:47:36 < jadew> an app that tells you the air quality
2023-04-07T10:49:30 < jadew> I wanted to avoid going for runs when the air quality was bad (which is quite often around here)
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2023-04-07T11:58:06 < jadew> the whole thing is so dumb... I'm trying to test the billing API and in order to do that I have to publish the app to "testers", go through all the questionnaires, describe everything, provide privacy policy, provide a video of the app working and demonstrating the features that need specific permisions
2023-04-07T11:58:24 < jadew> like... wtf, I just want to see if you stupid library works before I move forward with the thing
2023-04-07T11:58:31 < jadew> *your
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2023-04-07T12:42:26 < jadew> ffs, it's incredibly stupid for such a big company
2023-04-07T12:42:48 < jadew> so you have a place where you can configure on what form factors it is available
2023-04-07T12:43:21 < jadew> but in order to enable that place, you have to complete the first steps, which include providing screenshots for form factors you do not support...
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2023-04-07T12:45:38 < benishor> jadew: you whine too much man :)
2023-04-07T12:45:42 < benishor> just get on with it
2023-04-07T12:46:03 < benishor> a lot of developers are making android software
2023-04-07T12:46:08 < jadew> I've been at this step for two days already
2023-04-07T12:46:26 < benishor> well, maybe you ain;'t that smart though
2023-04-07T12:46:28 < jadew> actually no, there's like 300 apps or something silly like that for wear os
2023-04-07T12:46:31 < benishor> maybe it's you, not them
2023-04-07T12:46:37 < jadew> no, it's them
2023-04-07T12:46:40 < benishor> just read the docs, do the best possible implementation
2023-04-07T12:46:48 < jadew> there are no docs on the topic
2023-04-07T12:46:54 < benishor> ask away when there's something fishy
2023-04-07T12:47:27 < jadew> there's nobody available for chat support - been trying for days
2023-04-07T12:49:35 < jadew> it's asking me (required) for a 16:9 screenshot and my device is freaking round
2023-04-07T12:49:42 < Steffanx-> Help the guy out benishor ;)
2023-04-07T12:49:50 < Steffanx-> -out
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2023-04-07T13:00:05 < PaulFertser> Both google and apple are quite nasty when it comes to any issue, be it a real violation to their rules or something their stupid AIs detect. While everything goes well, it's fine. But if you get unlucky, not much you can do, accounts get blocked etc etc, and it's incredibly hard to prove any point.
2023-04-07T13:07:29 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2023-04-07T13:07:51 < jadew> I got banned by Facebook because of their AI
2023-04-07T13:08:22 < jadew> I was advertising an amplifier and it thought I'm trying to bullshit their users
2023-04-07T13:08:58 < jadew> so it blocked me, I complained, a human reinstated me, 1 minute later I got permanently banned and prevented from ever posting ads on their platform
2023-04-07T13:09:13 < jadew> no phone number to call, no nothing
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2023-04-07T13:16:29 < Steffanx-> None of the large corps is any better. 
2023-04-07T13:18:08 < jadew> they're basically turning down money, but maybe the math makes sense for them
2023-04-07T13:19:29 < jadew> this is not a good day for me... I couldn't find my PC over bluetooth so I went to settings turned it off, intending to turn it back on again, but it doesn't work anymore, I can't reach it with the keyboard and the mouse is on bluetooth
2023-04-07T13:25:52 < Steffanx-> Win 10?
2023-04-07T13:26:00 < jadew> ubuntu
2023-04-07T13:26:05 < jadew> I figured it out
2023-04-07T13:26:12 < Steffanx-> Oh Lunix. Yeah 😂
2023-04-07T13:26:24 < jadew> I had to press turn off airplane mode
2023-04-07T13:26:46 < Steffanx-> There's always zhe terminal way
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2023-04-07T14:57:56 < jbo> I'm currently routing some USB 2.0 signals. total distance is about 12mm. How much does length & impedance matching matter there?
2023-04-07T14:58:49 < jadew> very little
2023-04-07T14:59:18 < jadew> 480 Mbps = 240 MHz
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2023-04-07T15:04:48 < zyp> FS or HS?
2023-04-07T15:04:53 < jbo> HS
2023-04-07T15:05:00 < zyp> FS: absolutely not at all, HS: probably not at all
2023-04-07T15:05:33 < jbo> I'm doing a small boart with a USB-C connector with a PD-sink controller and a USB-A on the other end to hook up a USB 2.0 device.
2023-04-07T15:05:58 < BrainDamage> you can use flying wires made of cast iron with that distance and frequency
2023-04-07T15:06:18 < jbo> paper clip it is :D
2023-04-07T15:06:28 < jbo> the entire board is only 30x40mm
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2023-04-07T19:29:29 < catphish> i have a sudden urge to design a multirotor again
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2023-04-07T19:53:39 < Steffanx-> One that can move you around?
2023-04-07T20:04:47 < catphish> probably not :)
2023-04-07T20:10:29 < BrainDamage> can't you simply strap rotors to your car? it's not implied it has to be able to fly
2023-04-07T20:12:10 < karlp> anyone got a "cheap" pinless mositure meter?  looking at whether it's worth buying one
2023-04-07T20:14:04 < karlp> like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005416979172.html
2023-04-07T21:17:39 < qyx> how does it work?
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2023-04-07T21:48:29 < catphish> those spheres probably contain micro-dowsing rods
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2023-04-08T00:54:08 < Laurence_b> https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7922f16f2ed6d02f0d289abd111a45f8aeca4b636772f65f063b477ff37d33e9.jpg?w=800&h=563
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2023-04-08T01:35:47 < Laurence_b> https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8748b30e3fd2f6830ac90e97f711982cf81c623c17bc7ceb8d319519a12ead8f.png?w=800&h=1008
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2023-04-08T02:27:58 < Laurence_b> kek  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Other_media_appearances
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2023-04-08T06:56:51 < jadew> decided to write to google, opened the help thing, wrote them a long ass message and decided to save it, in case it doesn't work or something
2023-04-08T06:57:05 < jadew> CTRL+A, CTRL+C I thought
2023-04-08T06:57:18 < jadew> ended up pressing CTRL+W by mistake and closed the window lol
2023-04-08T06:59:31 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2023-04-08T06:59:57 < jadew> their whole system is so flimsy it's crazy
2023-04-08T07:00:12 < jadew> like crap not working and you're left in the dark
2023-04-08T07:00:50 < jadew> I'm still trying to solve the original problem, and I'm trying to try something else, but their system won't work, so now I want them to tell me why this isn't working
2023-04-08T07:01:07 < jadew> because I've been googling for hours and came up empty
2023-04-08T07:21:06 < jadew> lmfao, I just figured it out
2023-04-08T07:21:07 < jadew> by mistake
2023-04-08T07:21:25 < jadew> it was something completely unrelated to the message they were giving
2023-04-08T07:22:24 < jadew> it was saying "Superseded" but I think they use that as a placeholder for basically anything, because other people reported fixing that in other unrelated ways
2023-04-08T07:22:51 < jadew> the real meaning of the message is that the version you're looking at, is lower than the current version
2023-04-08T07:22:54 < jadew> so... superseded
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2023-04-08T14:47:33 < Laurence_b> https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3ab53ce1518bf2c3e1f36ebf93de4effb392b13ec5c41bbe020ac3e8582856fd.jpg?w=800&h=895
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2023-04-08T15:50:44 < jadew> lol
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2023-04-08T17:14:33 < josuah> the rainbow flag was picked-up by the LGBT pride only later in its history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag
2023-04-08T17:17:14 < josuah> I am not sure about any meaning under https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7922f16f2ed6d02f0d289abd111a45f8aeca4b636772f65f063b477ff37d33e9.jpg
2023-04-08T17:17:39  * josuah sends peace and biko to everyone! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LwbSeZx990
2023-04-08T17:18:55 < josuah> jadew: sometimes CTRL+SHIFT+T permits to recover the former content, not always though
2023-04-08T17:19:29 < josuah> at work, there have been quite a few hours lost on an answer redacted in a webinterface for longer than the timeout allowed, resulting in "session expired" an the original form content lost.
2023-04-08T17:19:47 < josuah> in the end, leading to rewriting everything, usually in the form of "yes" instead of a long explanation :D
2023-04-08T17:21:22 < josuah> I'll try some board with a can transceiver, a tiny STM32F042, with GPIO to one edge of the board only
2023-04-08T17:22:06 < josuah> that way you can easily solder it to a perfboard or anything for quick prototyping
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2023-04-08T17:22:54 < Laurence_b> https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhcCX5FaWQDWSp7WD0jNzIWfrTmROQqrRrX2lYweqsdK7z0A6wjIzqFknhcRYEO5BRSyBDkD8Emdh1M5fssQ3CYg5l0BHeyeZNtr92excMYz7p3XTfmxRP_QoXXORM6ECVeXhGTV9uS5HpADj71IYb0TVSK1bN4P5HLzNRA6iVlsIBSo6AxuMugvdxPWw/s320/biggreta2.jpg
2023-04-08T17:23:00 < Laurence_b> >big greta
2023-04-08T17:23:27 < josuah> use-case: ok I have this big heater element / motor / small sensor / voltage regulator, and I want to access it from CAN
2023-04-08T17:23:45 < josuah> i.e. a few meters away from the CAN-enabled main board
2023-04-08T17:23:49 < josuah> let's see how it goes
2023-04-08T17:24:28 < josuah> Laurence_b: I don't want to be her parents when she really goes into adolescence
2023-04-08T17:31:01 < Laurence_b> https://docs.rs-online.com/a7e0/A700000007308085.pdf
2023-04-08T17:31:20 < Laurence_b> I dont believe the energy curve
2023-04-08T17:31:33 < Laurence_b> surely it should level off at short times
2023-04-08T17:33:09 < Laurence_b> <1J is surely not going to melt it
2023-04-08T17:42:14 < josuah> Laurence_b: is it something theorical that would happen with sufficient heatsink?
2023-04-08T17:42:43 < josuah> i.e. limit computed out of theorical external components?
2023-04-08T17:43:52 < Laurence_b> yeah I do wonder if they just drew a straight line on log-log graph
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2023-04-08T22:46:36 < qyx> a bit offtopic, laser printers, colour, ethernet, with duplex, linux support, accessible cartridge refill
2023-04-08T22:47:05 < qyx> what's the curremt state? I need to replacemy epson acculaser
2023-04-08T22:47:56 < qyx> I am browsing the SOHO category, under 300 eur now
2023-04-08T22:48:46 < qyx> brother is GDI mainly, is that the thing rendered on the host?
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--- Day changed su huhti 09 2023
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2023-04-09T00:41:29 < Laurence_b> https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F001%2F436%2F423%2Fe7a.jpg&key=kfWK7bEEqDNm2_gMut7Inw&w=800&h=335
2023-04-09T00:58:42 < catphish> lol
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2023-04-09T02:08:15 < josuah> catphish: how is your aunt^Wcar going? 
2023-04-09T02:08:41 < josuah> https://josuah.net/paste/iR5nQcNa80QTF07O34A6/catphish-car.jpg
2023-04-09T02:08:43 < catphish> josuah: pretty much fine, i drove it 45 miles today :)
2023-04-09T02:09:58 < catphish> i litrally just posted that photo in a channel you're not in, which is not at all creepy
2023-04-09T02:10:43 < josuah> whene there is huge correlation but no possible causality, does this mean there is an underlying common cause?
2023-04-09T02:12:13 < josuah> such as "power electronics suddenly becomes the trend because politics told us 'electric cars!'"?
2023-04-09T02:13:24 < josuah> timers in our subconscious set for just now? I am creeped out myself!
2023-04-09T02:13:42 < josuah> hahaha, that is actually more accurate than a quartz!
2023-04-09T02:14:42 < josuah> Dec 17 13:46 to now is 21821304 seonds
2023-04-09T02:16:48 < josuah> say 60s interval between me posting this and you posting this:
2023-04-09T02:16:59 < josuah> 60 / 21821304 * 3600 * 24 * 356 <- not 100% that is how it's done but...
2023-04-09T02:17:19 < josuah> ~84.6s deviation per year!
2023-04-09T02:17:53 < catphish> anyway, car is good
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2023-04-09T02:22:37 < josuah> there is a world between getting a car run once https://www.openmotors.co/ and driving 45 miles with it!
2023-04-09T02:22:56  * josuah says to himself:
2023-04-09T02:23:10 < josuah> welcome to the future where you can download a car: https://www.openmotors.co/download/
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2023-04-09T02:42:15 < catphish> i didn't know this existed, that's super interesting
2023-04-09T02:45:42 < josuah> I have been seeing them in an early conference a while ago, before I even was into Electronics, still called "OpenSourceVehicle" at the time
2023-04-09T02:47:46 < josuah> https://vimeo.com/160683127 <- I should have really been doing electronics instead of computer science
2023-04-09T02:47:56 < josuah> I'd have been involved in it eventually
2023-04-09T02:53:48 < Laurence_b> I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but the idea of HAARP being able to cause earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, volcanoes to erupt, or that it is able to mess with people's minds, or can steer targetted fire paths through woodlands (or whatever else it seems to get blamed for) is not true. I'm very sorry to have to tell you this.
2023-04-09T02:56:10 < josuah> Laurence_b: do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArA_ZZx7NXU
2023-04-09T03:00:39 < Laurence_b> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_5lHLNmVJlY/UlYJDCDUyxI/AAAAAAAAC-s/F4RUI3B-iqo/s640/MIND-CONTROL-CONNECTION-ELF-GWEN-HAARP-CHEMTRAILS-USA-HITMAN.jpg
2023-04-09T03:09:24 < Laurence_b> Was the last big balloon seen really a malfunctioning tool used by "globe-Earthers" and the serpents and devil worshippers at NASA to display the international space station in front of the moon?
2023-04-09T03:09:32 < Laurence_b> important questions need answers
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2023-04-09T20:15:50 < kaki> can a bus be called synchronous if it doesn't have clock line?
2023-04-09T20:16:59 < zyp> synchronous to what?
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2023-04-09T20:22:00 < zyp> I guess if you somehow have a parallel bus where everything is clocked from the recovered clock of one or more of the signals, you could call it synchronous
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2023-04-09T20:22:41 < zyp> but I can't think of anything that fits that description, or even any reason to do it like that
2023-04-09T20:23:39 < zyp> typically if you have a multi-lane self-clocked bus, you do individual clock recovery of each lane, and then resync the data from each lane afterwards
2023-04-09T21:08:10 < jbo> zyp, jlcpcb lists minimum text height for silkscreen as 1mm. do you do all your boards that way? I have some dense stuff right now where I can do 0.8mm. aisler seems to suppor that.
2023-04-09T21:10:03 < Steffanx-> Skip the text when it doesn't fit.
2023-04-09T21:15:28 < qyx> jbo: jlc too
2023-04-09T21:15:37 < qyx> it is readable at 0.8
2023-04-09T21:15:40 < qyx> *it was
2023-04-09T21:15:50 < jbo> thanks
2023-04-09T21:17:19 < qyx> I am not supporting china since covid times
2023-04-09T21:17:54 < jbo> yeah I am also going for aisler. just want to keep things done in a way that they remain "migratable"
2023-04-09T21:18:06 < jbo> so I am wondering whether I should change my library REF text for 0603 from 1mm to 0.8mm
2023-04-09T21:19:24 < zyp> jbo, idk, I haven't paid attention to text specs, let me check
2023-04-09T21:20:13 < zyp> jbo, what sort of text? useful text or designators?
2023-04-09T21:20:29 < jbo> zyp, designators
2023-04-09T21:20:35 < jbo> zyp, R18, C73, ...
2023-04-09T21:20:46 < zyp> ah, fuck that
2023-04-09T21:20:59 < zyp> just turn them all off and stop worrying about that :)
2023-04-09T21:21:43 < jbo> I like to put the love in
2023-04-09T21:21:45 < jbo> Steffanx- knows
2023-04-09T21:24:00 < Steffanx-> I have no active memory about that.
2023-04-09T21:24:09 < zyp> designators in silk were probably a good idea a couple of decades ago when everything was big and you got plenty of board area available for stuff like that
2023-04-09T21:24:28 < zyp> for a modern dense design, it just makes a mess of it
2023-04-09T21:25:24 < zyp> use silk to label useful stuff instead, and leave everything else out
2023-04-09T21:27:11 < zyp> useful stuff being e.g. connectors and LEDs
2023-04-09T21:28:18 < zyp> (and then by understandable names, not just designator numbers)
2023-04-09T21:29:50 < zyp> if you're doing something where you need to look up a part by it's designator, you might as well also look up where that part is
2023-04-09T21:30:09 < zyp> e.g. by putting layout plots in your schematic pdfs
2023-04-09T21:30:53 < zyp> see e.g. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xPod5/orbtrace_mini.pdf, last two pages
2023-04-09T21:31:05 < zyp> every designator, searchable
2023-04-09T21:31:28 < zyp> and you're gonna open the schematic to figure out what designator you're looking for anyway
2023-04-09T21:31:54 < qyx> I am using designators everywhere, I am getting an eye pain when I see one missing
2023-04-09T21:32:23 < zyp> I agree, consistency is good, that's why I use them nowhere
2023-04-09T21:37:37 < Steffanx-> Don't kicad pros use this html placement visualizer export plugin?
2023-04-09T21:40:01 < Steffanx-> Aka Interactive HTML BOM 
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2023-04-09T23:35:34 < qyx> has anyone seen a wide fft lib? 32K and more
2023-04-09T23:35:50 < qyx> speed is not a concern
2023-04-09T23:37:25 < qyx> ah minfft does arbitrary size
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--- Day changed ma huhti 10 2023
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2023-04-10T01:39:39 < Laurence_b> https://download.monin.net/f.php?h=1SRqswIn&p=1
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2023-04-10T23:07:26 < karlp> related to designators, Iv'e started including the ibom html file in committed artifacts beside ordered gerbers.
2023-04-10T23:09:27 < karlp> we used 0.7mm heigh/0.7mm width, 0.1mm thick silk with nextpcb and it's fine.  I mean, it's fucking small, but it's fine.
2023-04-10T23:09:32 < karlp> I imagine 0.8 would work everywhere.
2023-04-10T23:28:37 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1645522431661015046
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2023-04-11T00:27:21 < kaki> Mangy_Dog: neat
2023-04-11T00:27:26 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2023-04-11T00:27:39 < kaki> for DC 0 use signal "GND"
2023-04-11T00:28:13 < kaki> earth is that third contact in mains plug
2023-04-11T00:29:57 < kaki> "Protection Ground (Earth)"
2023-04-11T00:30:07 < kaki> https://www.nexpcb.com/blog/different-types-of-ground-in-kicad
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2023-04-11T01:01:27 < Mangy_Dog> ahh fair point
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2023-04-11T07:53:29 < jadew> so the Java folks figured out that not having a clear lifespan of objects doesn't always work, so instead of introducing destructors they introduced a new type of try/catch mechanism, that calls .close() on your object when it exits the try block...
2023-04-11T07:54:14 < jadew> it's called "try-with-resources"
2023-04-11T07:56:48 < jadew> I'm telling you, it was designed by incompetent programmers who couldn't handle the constraints required to write good code
2023-04-11T07:57:19 < jadew> the garbage collector simply gets in your way
2023-04-11T07:58:31 < jadew> they're taking away control of something, in the name of preventing memory leakage, but in doing so they complicate everything else
2023-04-11T07:59:07 < jadew> now if you need a destructor, you have to manually call some arbitrary method you decided will play that role, like onDestroy(), whenever you think you are done with the object
2023-04-11T08:00:21 < jadew> if you miss one branch, or something happens, well, tough luck!
2023-04-11T08:02:42 < jadew> the worst thing about it, is that people knew it was shit 20 years ago, but they kept pushing it in schools
2023-04-11T08:03:21 < jadew> and now it's being used as the main language on the most ubiquitous of devices
2023-04-11T08:04:56 < jadew> they managed to create two or three generations of stupid developers
2023-04-11T08:05:09 < jadew> it's like the retards always push the hardest
2023-04-11T08:05:52 < jadew> that's why we have java, spaces for indentation and languages that use coding style as part of the fucking syntax, like python and kotlin who knows what other shit
2023-04-11T08:06:12 < jadew> * and who knows
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2023-04-11T10:06:47 < Steffanx-> Why jadew even uses Java.  I thought kotlin was the holy grail nowadays 
2023-04-11T10:20:28 < jadew> because I don't like Kotlin even more
2023-04-11T10:21:51 < jadew> it's just syntatic sugar for Java, like what coffescript is to javascript
2023-04-11T10:26:27 < jadew> I wish MS dominated the phone market
2023-04-11T10:26:42 < jadew> MS = developer heaven (by comparison to everyone else)
2023-04-11T10:28:24 < jpa-> heh, just because C++ happens to do important shit with destructors RAII-style doesn't mean it is the "one true way" and that you should dislike java & C# for doing things differently
2023-04-11T10:28:41 < jadew> C# has destructors
2023-04-11T10:28:55 < jadew> C# was written by good developers
2023-04-11T10:28:58 < jpa-> they don't execute deterministically, so you use using() when it matters
2023-04-11T10:29:16 < jadew> they don't? 
2023-04-11T10:29:21 < jadew> let me look that up
2023-04-11T10:29:42 < jpa-> C# is garbage collected, destructors execute much later unless you use .Dispose() or using()
2023-04-11T10:29:51 < jpa-> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/language-reference/statements/using
2023-04-11T10:30:58 < jpa-> in general this is the difference between background garbage collection and reference counting; reference counting gives you deterministic destruction for "free" because every object leaving scope is more expensive
2023-04-11T10:31:00 < jadew> that looks like try-with-resources
2023-04-11T10:31:07 < jpa-> yes, it is the same
2023-04-11T10:31:40 < jadew> ok, so c# sucks too. my bad.
2023-04-11T10:31:54 < jpa-> what i don't really understand is why Python has "with" when it also has (at least in most common implementations) deterministic destructors
2023-04-11T10:32:12 < jadew> it's not the one true way, but garbage collecting like this makes things very difficult in some situations
2023-04-11T10:32:47 < jpa-> i agree, back when i did video processing with C#, it was necessary to be very careful about disposing all frames
2023-04-11T10:33:05 < jpa-> otherwise you could quickly leak a few gigabytes of memory before the garbage collector kicks in
2023-04-11T10:33:29 < jpa-> and then the garbage collector pauses your system for hundreds of milliseconds
2023-04-11T10:34:51 < jadew> the problem I have is that I want to know when a process is done, which involves passing the responsibility for what's displayed to various threads, and background processes that MIGHT end with a callback
2023-04-11T10:35:35 < jadew> in c++ I could just tie a shared_ptr to the callbacks or whatever, and it would get destroyed when those callbacks or objects I'm passing around get dismissed
2023-04-11T10:35:51 < jadew> so even if a success callback is not called, I would still get a notification that the process is over
2023-04-11T10:35:56 < jadew> because nobody is holding the torch anymore
2023-04-11T10:36:14 < jadew> this is practically impossible with Java
2023-04-11T10:36:50 < jpa-> the refcounting vs. garbage collection divide is pretty philosophical and it seems gc-oriented languages are heavily opposed against introducing any refcount-style features
2023-04-11T10:37:33 < jpa-> and yes, emulating refcount-style features like RAII is practically impossible with a language that only has background garbage collection
2023-04-11T10:37:38 < jadew> well, that's how new languages form
2023-04-11T10:38:02 < jadew> (because of philosophical differences)
2023-04-11T10:38:15 < jadew> I'm just pointing out that the creators of Java are shit philosophers
2023-04-11T10:39:29 < jadew> I wonder what's the problem with ref counting? could it add too much overhead?
2023-04-11T10:39:39 < jadew> or it's easier to do things in one lump
2023-04-11T10:39:54 < jadew> so having ref counting too would complicate things
2023-04-11T10:40:02 < jpa-> i think the overhead is the main concern, but it seems like compiler optimizations could avoid a large part of it
2023-04-11T10:40:25 < BrainDamage> ref counting is a bit problematic when multithreaded
2023-04-11T10:40:32 < BrainDamage> but generally quite viable
2023-04-11T10:40:40 < jpa-> especially in multi-thread systems if you need atomic increment & decrement it slows down significantly to sync between CPUs
2023-04-11T10:41:13 < jadew> How do they solve that with the GC?
2023-04-11T10:41:26 < jadew> How do they know when there's no reference to the object?
2023-04-11T10:41:44 < jpa-> they start from a root pointer and walk along the tree to check all objects that are still reachable
2023-04-11T10:41:58 < jadew> makes sense
2023-04-11T10:41:59 < jpa-> and then separately have a list of all objects that have been allocated, so they can remove any that are not reachable
2023-04-11T10:42:42 < jpa-> and theoretically this can be done per-thread without pausing the other threads, but it seems practical GC implementations still end up pausing in some cases
2023-04-11T10:43:45 < jpa-> rust's "solve most of the lifetimes at compile time, but allow refcounting when it is needed" seems reasonable, but it puts more burden on programmer to choose between approaches
2023-04-11T10:44:25 < jpa-> one can go very deep the rabbit hole of lifetime specifications to make the static solver happy, or one can just "refcount all the things" - and neither extreme is a good choice
2023-04-11T10:45:03 < jpa-> C++'s balance of std::shared_ptr for refcounted stuff and automatic lifetime for stuff that persists for one block works pretty well
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2023-04-11T10:46:28 < jadew> I wonder why there's no C++ script
2023-04-11T10:46:47 < jpa-> it does have some funny corner cases like    Object o = functioncall();   Object functioncall() { return Object(1234); }   where special rules are needed to avoid multiple copies, but at this point it is a solved problem
2023-04-11T10:47:43 < jpa-> there are plenty of C++ interpreters that can be used for scripting, but C++'s largest benefits are the speed and the detection of problems at compilation time, and you lose both of them if you don't compile
2023-04-11T10:48:23 < jpa-> and the uncontained effects of buggy C++ code are not a great fit for scripting either
2023-04-11T10:48:43 < jpa-> (javascript of course has no relation to java, it is just a marketing name)
2023-04-11T10:50:35 < jadew> yeah, but javascript is similar in important ways to java
2023-04-11T10:51:59 < jadew> well, now that I think about it, maybe not that similar, it's similar in limitations, but that doesn't say much
2023-04-11T10:52:28 < jpa-> it's similar in that it doesn't have reference counting.. though for pretty long, it didn't really have objects either :)
2023-04-11T10:53:08 < jpa-> or rather, it has objects but classes are a relatively new and rare thing
2023-04-11T10:54:52 < jpa-> if you make every object of a language reference counted, you end up with Python-level of performance - which is quite limiting; C++, Rust etc. get around it by only selectively using refcounting on objects that the programmer considers need it, but that requires care on the part of the programmer
2023-04-11T10:55:10 < zyp> jpa-, with was added because python doesn't have deterministic destructors
2023-04-11T10:55:21 < jadew> jpa-, it did have objects and classes
2023-04-11T10:55:25 < jpa-> zyp: it doesn't?
2023-04-11T10:55:29 < jadew> the current implementation of classes are just syntatic sugar
2023-04-11T10:55:49 < jpa-> jadew: i guess C has objects and classes then too
2023-04-11T10:56:00 < jadew> no, I mean it
2023-04-11T10:56:35 < jadew> a current javascript class can be be implemented (and it used to be) in older javascript
2023-04-11T10:56:54 < jadew> the new syntax just makes that cleaner, especially the inheritance part
2023-04-11T10:57:06 < Steffanx-> Kotlin is not what coffee script is to javascript. 
2023-04-11T10:57:31 < Steffanx-> Kotlin compiles to bytecode. (Or native shit if you want to)
2023-04-11T10:57:33 < jpa-> jadew: and whole of C++ can be (and was) implemented in C
2023-04-11T10:57:51 < Steffanx-> Coffeescript generates javascript.
2023-04-11T10:57:52 < jpa-> all programming languages are just syntactic sugar on top of a hex editor
2023-04-11T10:57:56 < jadew> jpa-, heh, ok
2023-04-11T10:58:08 < jadew> Steffanx-, yeah, but it could compile to something else, that's not the point
2023-04-11T10:59:05 < jpa-> zyp: hmm i guess you mean that Python as a language doesn't, while CPython generally does?
2023-04-11T11:00:10 < benishor> dfu-util: Error during special command "ERASE_PAGE" get_status
2023-04-11T11:00:12 < benishor> gahh
2023-04-11T11:00:32 < benishor> you guys ran into these?
2023-04-11T11:00:58 < benishor> context: I am downloading firmware through a bootloader which writes to qspi flash
2023-04-11T11:01:23 < benishor> it didn't use to appear at all but lately it's getting more and more frequent
2023-04-11T11:05:47 < zyp> jpa-, CPython is both refcounted and garbage collected, and I wouldn't call the garbage collector deterministic
2023-04-11T11:06:02 < jpa-> true
2023-04-11T11:06:13 < jpa-> i actually forgot to mention the ref loop problem of refcounts
2023-04-11T11:06:33 < jpa-> which is the second big problem alongside performance
2023-04-11T11:06:51 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-11T11:08:04 < jadew> that can be a problem too, yeah
2023-04-11T11:08:17 < jadew> so in CPython both problems are solved?
2023-04-11T11:08:20 < zyp> also, I'd say object lifetime in python isn't explicit enough to rely on destructors for RAII
2023-04-11T11:08:28 < zyp> what problems?
2023-04-11T11:08:32 < jpa-> and if you add a refcounted class type/attribute to a garbage collected language, then you'll just end up with refcounted object reference inside a garbage collected object and everything is non-deterministic again
2023-04-11T11:08:46 < jadew> deterministic destruction + cyclical referencing solved
2023-04-11T11:08:58 < zyp> ah, yes
2023-04-11T11:09:10 < jpa-> in CPython performance is solved by being slow to start with, and cyclic referencing is solved by collecting it non-deterministically
2023-04-11T11:09:18 < jadew> but yeah, jpa is correct, it's no longer deterministic
2023-04-11T11:09:22 < zyp> python uses the with-statemnt for deterministic release, and garbage collection to destroy cycles
2023-04-11T11:09:43 < jpa-> with statement works well for the trival cases where you use stuff from one place
2023-04-11T11:10:11 < jadew> yeah, the moment you need to pass the resource over to other places it becomes useless
2023-04-11T11:10:12 < jpa-> it doesn't help at all with using stuff from many places and then wanting deterministic release when last of them finishes
2023-04-11T11:10:16 < zyp> yeah, not so much for stuff like libusb contexts
2023-04-11T11:10:44 < zyp> all the python-libusb1 examples uses a with-statement for that, and that just doesn't work for real stuff
2023-04-11T11:10:46 < jpa-> though you can have a shared_ptr-style class that does refcounting and then put *that* inside the with/using/try-resources
2023-04-11T11:11:18 < jadew> oh, that's a smart solution
2023-04-11T11:11:30 < jadew> so you would always use it with a try-with-resources clause
2023-04-11T11:12:02 < jadew> I guess if you could annotate a class as requiring this sort of use, that would solve the problem
2023-04-11T11:12:04 < jpa-> yeah, it works, but it gets pretty annoying and is easy to mess up
2023-04-11T11:12:30 < zyp> I figure it only matters if you actually need deterministic release
2023-04-11T11:12:44 < jpa-> you still need some place to keep the reference in between with-clauses, because that holds it only during execution
2023-04-11T11:12:52 < zyp> typically I only need resources to be released at some point, doesn't matter exactly when
2023-04-11T11:13:31 < jadew> jpa-, what do you mean? the reference would be inside the object
2023-04-11T11:13:45 < zyp> and in python, use of the with-statement is typically entirely optional
2023-04-11T11:14:13 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, and then you "lose" the object and it doesn't immediately get garbage collected - who is going to be decrementing ref count?
2023-04-11T11:14:20 < zyp> with open(filename) as f: and f = open(filename) works equally well
2023-04-11T11:14:53 < jpa-> jadew: i mean the parent object
2023-04-11T11:15:22 < jpa-> i.e. it would work ok if some code is constantly executing as long as the reference is kept
2023-04-11T11:15:41 < jpa-> but if you need to wait for callback or something, you need a place to keep the reference without executing code
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2023-04-11T11:16:44 < jadew> jpa-, you put it in the callback
2023-04-11T11:17:12 < jadew> if you use it in the callback, it's going to be attached to it
2023-04-11T11:17:18 < jadew> so it won't get destroyed
2023-04-11T11:17:29 < jpa-> then your object gets freed between    scheduleCallbackInTenSeconds();  and the callback beginning execution
2023-04-11T11:17:56 < jadew> no, because the moment you create the callback the object gets attached to it
2023-04-11T11:18:13 < jadew> that's before it's even scheduled, and definitely before you exit the try-with-resources block
2023-04-11T11:18:15 < jpa-> ah, so the callback system has a magical place to store the reference? :)
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2023-04-11T11:18:33 < jadew> jpa-, it has a magical place to store the objects it references, yeah
2023-04-11T11:19:25 < jpa-> yeah, so you need some mechanism for that - and i'm not sure what it would look in a garbage collected language *except* the trivial way which makes it easy to have such references inside not-yet-garbage-collected objects
2023-04-11T11:20:08 < jpa-> and at that point it wouldn't help to have attribute that requires mandatory or even automatic try-with-resources for the references, when you can leak them by having them as member variables
2023-04-11T11:21:06 < zyp> jpa-, in C++, the magical place is typically in a std::bind stored in a std::function
2023-04-11T11:21:15 < jpa-> if the callback object itself relies on garbage collection, any reference stored inside it doesn't get released deterministically unless you remember to "take out the reference"
2023-04-11T11:22:20 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, in C++ it is simple because every object has deterministic destruction by default, so you don't get the issue of "deterministic-destruction stuff stored inside a non-deterministic-destruction object"
2023-04-11T11:22:28 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-11T11:22:32 < jadew> jpa-, yeah you wouldn't rely on that
2023-04-11T11:22:45 < jpa-> it's fine to have non-deterministic (like std::weak_ptr) inside deterministic
2023-04-11T11:22:56 < jadew> you would basically increment the count when you passed it to the callback
2023-04-11T11:23:11 < jadew> and then forcing a try-with-resources mechanism, you would release it in there
2023-04-11T11:23:25 < jadew> but that assumes that the callback does get called...
2023-04-11T11:23:42 < jadew> so yeah, I suppose this wouldn't work very well either
2023-04-11T11:24:08 < jadew> food time, ttyl
2023-04-11T11:24:13 < jpa-> one can also go for "works most of the time and garbace collection handles the rest" :)
2023-04-11T11:37:22 < qyx> is jadew selecting the new holy language for his logger or just casually grumping around?
2023-04-11T11:38:25 < qyx> but I agree in one point, whoever invented indenting with spaces should be properly treated
2023-04-11T11:46:49 < jpa-> jadew has been inflicted by the android monster
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2023-04-11T14:04:46 < karlp> I thought jadew would have written his own phone os in php, because only his own code is good?
2023-04-11T14:07:18 < jadew> android is good because, like iOS, it's what the world needed on the phone (consistent, fairly easy to use UI)
2023-04-11T14:07:31 < jadew> now, I can't speak about iOS, but android is fucking garbage
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2023-04-11T14:07:43 < jadew> yeah, I'd write my own if it would make sense, but it doesn't
2023-04-11T14:09:51 < jadew> even activity events are stupid
2023-04-11T14:10:41 < jadew> to keep it simple it resume/pause are part of the normal lifecycle of an activity (resume is always called)
2023-04-11T14:12:03 < jadew> basically, resume is called prior to pause
2023-04-11T14:12:49 < karlp> ok, first day at home.  what to doooo.....
2023-04-11T14:12:58 < karlp> projects in every direction...
2023-04-11T14:13:07 < qyx> tidy up your workplace first
2023-04-11T14:13:07 < jadew> chill with a movie?
2023-04-11T14:13:11 < qyx> I already did that
2023-04-11T14:13:34 < karlp> fuck this tidy shit, I do that periodically when I want to clear something up, but I'm not just emptying it for empty sake.
2023-04-11T14:13:46 < karlp> I don't subscribe to that philosophy
2023-04-11T14:13:56 < qyx> so ask your wife, they always know
2023-04-11T14:13:59 < jadew> should watch some jordan peterson
2023-04-11T14:14:02 < karlp> she's still in bed :)
2023-04-11T14:14:26 < jadew> you'll learn why cleaning your room is good
2023-04-11T14:15:04 < qyx> I was not cleaning this room last two weeks so it was a win-win
2023-04-11T14:15:25 < karlp> I clean the room and the floors, I just don't subscribe to this idea that my work desk must be "empty" all the time
2023-04-11T14:16:00 < jadew> I do, but I can't enact it
2023-04-11T14:16:13 < karlp> sounds like it's working well then :)
2023-04-11T14:16:18 < qyx> I do but it cannot be easily enforced
2023-04-11T14:16:57 < jadew> a clean desk invites you to work on stuff
2023-04-11T14:17:00 < qyx> ok so back to the original question
2023-04-11T14:17:20 < jadew> a messy one looks like a bunch of crap are in the way of what you'd like to work on
2023-04-11T14:17:26 < zyp> what stuff are you gonna work on if the desk is empty?
2023-04-11T14:17:29 < karlp> oh no, the desk is already setup and wired for the project I was last working on, the question is really, "do I work on that project" or do I play video games or watch a movie.
2023-04-11T14:17:51 < karlp> yeah, this clean desk thing is fucking nuts, I don't subscribe to it at all.
2023-04-11T14:18:16 < qyx> zyp: you do a context switch from a project box
2023-04-11T14:18:56 < qyx> I cannot keep things on the desk if I have 5 parallel projects, it is a mess
2023-04-11T14:19:07 < zyp> get a bigger desk
2023-04-11T14:19:38 < jadew> I have a bigger desk and it's still annoying to have multiple projects laid out
2023-04-11T14:19:46 < qyx> at the end I usually put everything in a box properly labelled, fast-clean the desk and unbox another project
2023-04-11T14:19:51 < jadew> in the end, it's all just clutter
2023-04-11T14:19:55 < qyx> I have a 3.5 m long one
2023-04-11T14:20:59 < jpa-> i clean my desk for every weekend
2023-04-11T14:21:23 < jadew> I only clean mine before I start working on a new project :P
2023-04-11T14:21:47 < jadew> so if I take a break or something, I just keep it messy
2023-04-11T14:23:13 < jpa-> i find that my project scope usually shifts enough that weekly cleaning gets rid of accumulated crap
2023-04-11T14:23:43 < jadew> it's a good habit if you can keep it going
2023-04-11T14:23:50 < jadew> wish I could do that
2023-04-11T14:24:17 < qyx> I am able to do that weekly until a peak weekly dose of redundant crap reaches a certain level, then I segfault
2023-04-11T14:24:33 < qyx> and the sh't start to accumulate long term
2023-04-11T14:25:04 < jadew> heh, yeah, that's how it works for me too
2023-04-11T14:26:18 < jadew> the trick is probably to find motivation to keep it clean
2023-04-11T14:26:29 < jadew> for example, these guys making youtube videos, they have to keep it clean
2023-04-11T14:27:01 < jadew> if you found something like that, you could exploit it to force yourself into keeping it tidy
2023-04-11T14:27:05 < qyx> easy then, start making videos
2023-04-11T14:27:24 < jadew> too many electronics channels
2023-04-11T14:28:18 < jadew> I could have maybe have a bitching channel, like louis rossman's
2023-04-11T14:54:05 < jpa-> hmm, R8-R12 in cortex-m0+ are surprisingly useless, as most instructions can't access them
2023-04-11T14:58:37 < zyp> why surprising?
2023-04-11T14:59:12 < zyp> but yeah
2023-04-11T15:00:55 < zyp> I figure they're still faster than having to spill to ram, but only barely
2023-04-11T15:01:41 < jpa-> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0662/b/The-Cortex-M0--Instruction-Set/General-data-processing-instructions/MOV-and-MVN   is this lying in saying that mov can only access r0-r7? because the example shows it accessing more than that..
2023-04-11T15:04:15 < jpa-> if only add can access r8, it seems very difficult to even get data into and out of them..
2023-04-11T15:07:40 < karlp> what are you working on now jpa?
2023-04-11T15:09:05 < jpa-> making RP2040 do silly realtime stuff because FPGAs are so poorly available
2023-04-11T15:09:25 < karlp> is this stills scsi stuff?
2023-04-11T15:09:40 < zyp> jpa-, as far as I can see, mov can move from high regs, but not to them
2023-04-11T15:09:45 < jpa-> related but still unpublished so cannot share too much details
2023-04-11T15:10:36 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, found same in armv6m techref
2023-04-11T15:11:17 < jpa-> funnily it has that "Though it is possible to use MOV as a branch instruction" even though it cannot mov to PC
2023-04-11T15:11:43 < jpa-> no, actually seems it can move from/to any
2023-04-11T15:11:55 < jpa-> the top bit of Rd is separate in instruction encoding
2023-04-11T15:11:55 < zyp> hmm, I wonder if v6m includes mov.w
2023-04-11T15:12:40 < zyp> oh, right
2023-04-11T15:13:11 < zyp> I thought that was the flag option
2023-04-11T15:19:01 < jpa-> looks like the complete list of instructions that can use high regs is: ADD, BLX, BX, CMP, MOV
2023-04-11T15:23:31 < specing> those regs seem to me like faster stack
2023-04-11T15:24:01 < qyx> what are they for, for fors?
2023-04-11T15:30:07 < jpa-> they would be faster stack if the ABI would specify R8-R11 as scratch registers, but now they are callee-save and there is no fast way to push them so it becomes pretty hard to make any use
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2023-04-11T16:11:03 < karlp> hehe, there's a list of systems that vendors have made statements to icelandic tax as that they meet the requirements for digital bookeeping laws... https://www.skatturinn.is/atvinnurekstur/bokhald-og-tekjuskraning/rafraen-bokhaldskerfi/#tab2  it includes old DOS applications.  I suspect this is an append only list :) and nothing's ever removed.
2023-04-11T16:11:53 < jadew> you'd be surprised the kind of stuff that keeps running
2023-04-11T16:12:10 < jadew> postal workers over here have several programs for different things
2023-04-11T16:12:22 < karlp> not really, I rememmber seeing old wise terminals still in use decades later than expected, 
2023-04-11T16:13:02 < karlp> but I truly believe that if you went to digital bookkeeping in the 90s in iceland, you were a tech nerd in your business, and you are definitely not still using it.
2023-04-11T16:13:43 < jadew> it could be something used by some state owned company
2023-04-11T16:14:05 < jadew> like one of the text-mode programs that the postal workers I was talking about have to use
2023-04-11T16:14:12 < karlp> no, there's other products and services on that list that are not longer in business, I think "append only list" is the right explanation
2023-04-11T16:14:28 < karlp> I can't imagine anyone at the tax office having a task of yearly review of this list or anything
2023-04-11T16:14:44 < karlp> just like there's doubtless hundreds of other systems that would technically qualify
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2023-04-11T18:41:05 < fenugrec> Looking to measure inrush current for an USB device. I can probably cobble one together with a PMOS, INA181 , sense resistor. Tried a few searches to find something ready-made, but I only found those garbage USB "meters" with only a readout - I want at least a few 100kHz BW if possible
2023-04-11T18:41:35 < fenugrec> any suggestions ? joulescope is nice but way overkill and I still have to hax some wiring
2023-04-11T18:41:53 < qyx> a pmos and ina181
2023-04-11T18:43:02 < fenugrec> (also wtf, how are they measuring from "nanoamps" to amps.... single range seems unrealistic, with a 0.025ohm sense res, that would be picovolts at low currents...)
2023-04-11T18:43:03 < qyx> but other than that, a double pole mechanical switch and a scope?
2023-04-11T18:43:36 < fenugrec> mech switch will have horrible bounce
2023-04-11T18:44:14 < fenugrec> ina181 solution is a top contender... high-side sense, have it in stock, can be powered from upstream USB V+
2023-04-11T18:45:18 < fenugrec> but it's going to be a fugly PCB with flying wires. Surely someone makes something like this.... BOM is like 5$ tops
2023-04-11T18:48:12 < fenugrec> Ah, joulescope : "Rapid 1 μs switching between shunt resistors"
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2023-04-11T19:46:37 < zyp> fenugrec, ah, I've been wondering
2023-04-11T19:46:59 < zyp> we've got a joulescope at work, it's a really convenient tool
2023-04-11T20:33:27 < fenugrec> zyp, I see you're apparently able to change "faceplates" - would be useful for e.g. USB pass-through I guess
2023-04-11T20:33:51 < fenugrec> I can't justify the k$ pricetag though, don't need that bad enough
2023-04-11T20:35:50 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/qG6aeahcM   silly cortex-m0 optimization tricks, shifting into carry flag to branch depending on two adjacent bits
2023-04-11T20:46:10 < fenugrec> why silly ?
2023-04-11T20:51:41 < jpa-> saves 1 instruction :D
2023-04-11T20:52:09 < jpa-> i have less than 30 to work with, so it's something
2023-04-11T20:54:17 < qyx> are you implementing a cortex m0 in a rpi4020's PIO?
2023-04-11T20:54:56 < qyx> or how is the fpga thing called
2023-04-11T20:55:26 < jpa-> the PIO is just a very simplistic processor
2023-04-11T20:55:41 < jpa-> but too simple for me so i need to use the cortex-m0+ core also
2023-04-11T20:56:08 < jpa-> but cortex-m0 being what it is, it's pretty slow.. all those loads and moves and shifts etc.
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2023-04-11T21:01:28 < Laurence_b> Once a chat bot reaches a certain level it becomes impossible for a human to distinguish between a computer generated response and a redditor
2023-04-11T21:02:11 < jpa-> so let's just kickban them both
2023-04-11T21:08:34 < jbo> :D
2023-04-11T21:09:49 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2023-04-11T21:44:54 < Laurence_b> The planet Earth has a cubic symmetry, and time is rotating as four "corners". All of modern physics is wrong.
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2023-04-11T22:31:37 < kaki> Steffanx-: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-da7_6sx_c
2023-04-11T22:32:50 < Steffanx-> Not your bestest musics kaki 
2023-04-11T22:33:23  * qyx @ Delain - Mirror of Night
2023-04-11T22:33:35 < kaki> but definitelly one of most iconic
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2023-04-11T22:33:44 < qyx> I'll svg you
2023-04-11T22:34:05 < Steffanx-> never heard of it kaki 
2023-04-11T22:34:14 < Steffanx-> must have been a finnish classic.
2023-04-11T22:34:28 < qyx> most iconic is The music from the Dutch
2023-04-11T22:36:30 < Steffanx-> You mean this qyx ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSznCkkQh5E
2023-04-11T22:38:33 < qyx> oh that's great Steffanx- 
2023-04-11T22:38:58 < kaki> Steffanx-: aparently industrial genres have never been on your playlist?
2023-04-11T22:39:56 < qyx> it reminds me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRzVeUCnQVU
2023-04-11T22:40:22 < qyx> it was quality music
2023-04-11T22:40:23 < Steffanx-> KMFDM doesnt even seem to have a dutch wikipedia page kaki 
2023-04-11T22:40:51 < qyx> Steffanx-: no I meant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkqyyUTCMUQ for example
2023-04-11T22:41:36 < Steffanx-> i could listen to that qyx . but then they start "singing" :(
2023-04-11T22:42:54 < Steffanx-> Im sorry to disappoint you once again kaki  
2023-04-11T22:43:25 < qyx> I can do that too
2023-04-11T22:43:36 < qyx> and now even better with a sore throat
2023-04-11T22:44:42 < Steffanx-> Try the high voice.
2023-04-11T22:45:08 < kaki> Amsterdam has launched stay away from Amsterdam campaign Steffanx-
2023-04-11T22:45:16 < kaki> it's targeted at britts
2023-04-11T22:45:48 < Steffanx-> Oh i dont mind. When i walk in Amsterdam it doesnt feel like dutchland anyway.
2023-04-11T22:46:24 < kaki> it's a facade anyways
2023-04-11T22:46:40 < kaki> almost like a movie set
2023-04-11T22:46:43 < Steffanx-> Amsterdam is made for tourists
2023-04-11T22:46:56 < qyx> *of
2023-04-11T22:47:20 < kaki> I think some buildings even have actual facades slapped on
2023-04-11T22:49:21 < Steffanx-> Back to the important things: https://imgur.com/a/eBzG8Pr 
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2023-04-11T22:54:57 < kaki> how are your cattos Steffanx-?
2023-04-11T22:55:33 < Steffanx-> Idk about cattos. I know about the cat. She's asleep.
2023-04-11T23:05:05 < qyx> oh i am much disappointed steff
2023-04-11T23:21:35 < Steffanx-> in what mr qyx ?
2023-04-11T23:22:30 < qyx> you dislike musiks
2023-04-11T23:29:31 < karlp> huh, kmfdm, haven't listened to any of this in ageeeees
2023-04-11T23:40:29 < kaki> karlp: like in 2000s?
2023-04-11T23:41:18 < kaki> or even in 90s?
2023-04-11T23:45:25 < kaki> when that song was released I was probably eating my own snot
2023-04-11T23:48:08 < karlp> probably 2000s, 
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--- Day changed ke huhti 12 2023
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2023-04-12T00:29:16 < machinehum> Anyone have a gate driver they like
2023-04-12T00:30:37 < kaki> are you asking: what are the typical gatedrivers found in X circuits?
2023-04-12T00:38:55 < machinehum> Just wondering if anyone have some part number lying around
2023-04-12T00:39:06 < machinehum> Still figuring out exactly what I need
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2023-04-12T00:53:29 < kaki> what are you doings
2023-04-12T00:56:44 < machinehum> 10A sync buck supply
2023-04-12T00:58:29 < kaki> why you use dedicated gate driver?
2023-04-12T00:58:40 < kaki> doesn't your buck controller have everything
2023-04-12T00:58:43 < machinehum> What do you mean?
2023-04-12T00:58:52 < machinehum> The supply it from scratch using a MCU
2023-04-12T00:58:54 < machinehum> is
2023-04-12T00:59:34 < kaki> your mcu has some high speed logic that can be utilized for that?
2023-04-12T01:00:16 < machinehum> PID loop should be alright
2023-04-12T01:00:22 < kaki> how fast mcu?
2023-04-12T01:01:49 < machinehum> It's the RP2040
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2023-04-12T01:01:54 < kaki> ah
2023-04-12T01:02:00 < kaki> that could indeed do
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2023-04-12T01:03:20 < kaki> iirc it doesn't have anything analog
2023-04-12T01:03:39 < kaki> you need external comparators and stuffs
2023-04-12T01:03:53 < machinehum> Yeah there will be a bunch of that
2023-04-12T01:10:16 < qyx> do you all eat mushroom? you are the second one today trying to do serious work with a rpi-whatever
2023-04-12T01:11:15 < machinehum> Love mushrooms
2023-04-12T01:11:25 < machinehum> qyx: Tell me why I can't do serious work with this part?
2023-04-12T01:14:11 < kaki> it's only that the chip is not established in the community as a serious device.. and you are doing a switching regulator with a mcu
2023-04-12T01:14:20 < kaki> *a mcu
2023-04-12T01:14:54 < kaki> are you planning to have other functions in the same chip or just switching regulator?
2023-04-12T01:15:33 < machinehum> Battery charging
2023-04-12T01:15:39 < kaki> interestings
2023-04-12T01:15:45 < machinehum> All with hardware to make sure things don't go crazy
2023-04-12T01:15:49 < machinehum> It's for a 12V UPS
2023-04-12T01:15:56 < machinehum> Job got signed
2023-04-12T01:16:00 < kaki> hardware failsafes
2023-04-12T01:16:02 < Steffanx-> Soon youll add ethernet and it Beaky all over.
2023-04-12T01:16:11 < Steffanx-> I still think Beaky was kaki.
2023-04-12T01:16:20 < Steffanx-> It's*
2023-04-12T01:16:25 < kaki> Beaky was ahead of his time
2023-04-12T01:16:51 < kaki> didn't he plan to use stm32 for switching?
2023-04-12T01:16:56 < kaki> f103 or whatever
2023-04-12T01:16:57 < qyx> actually he was not wrong
2023-04-12T01:17:04 < qyx> F7 or H7 it was
2023-04-12T01:18:04 < kaki> in some products using mcu to regulate voltages can be beneficial to save in BOM cost and board space etc.
2023-04-12T01:18:10 < Steffanx-> No this was pre-f7/h7 times
2023-04-12T01:18:25 < machinehum> Espicially when your PMIC sells out
2023-04-12T01:18:28 < machinehum> And you're just fucked
2023-04-12T01:18:42 < kaki> :o
2023-04-12T01:18:44 < machinehum> RP2040 has two cores, one can be completely for PMIC shit
2023-04-12T01:18:51 < machinehum> Other for something else
2023-04-12T01:24:55 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/jt3CXV8
2023-04-12T01:24:57 < machinehum> Looks alright
2023-04-12T01:30:28 < qyx> Steffanx-: really?
2023-04-12T01:31:45 < qyx> machinehum: you don't want to use such discrete gate driver at 1 MHz
2023-04-12T01:32:14 < qyx> be prepared for a fail, use a proper high current gate driver
2023-04-12T01:32:34 < machinehum> Yeah I was thinking the same thing
2023-04-12T01:32:34 < qyx> for < ~20 V you can use a dual low side driver to drive both low and high side
2023-04-12T01:33:11 < machinehum> This thing kinda sucks you need like like 0.5A through R2 to start
2023-04-12T01:34:42 < qyx> also 35 nC of total gate charge for such mosfet is exceptionally high
2023-04-12T01:35:23 < qyx> driving 35 nC at 12 V or so of Vgs and 1 MHz freq is gonna be..
2023-04-12T01:35:34 < qyx> nonworking
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2023-04-12T01:36:37 < qyx> compare with eg. CSD17307
2023-04-12T01:36:40 < qyx> it is not even comparable
2023-04-12T01:37:45 < qyx> even smaller Rdson with 4 nC vs 35 nC
2023-04-12T01:39:11 < qyx> if you drive with 4.5 V you get 9.7 vs 18.5 mohm at 4 vs 17 nC
2023-04-12T01:39:44 < qyx> this AONRwhatever has about 8x worse FOM than that CSD
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2023-04-12T01:40:21 < machinehum> I see that I'm shitty at picking FETs
2023-04-12T01:41:41 < qyx> simulate your power losses with some tool, TI has one too, although for their switchers
2023-04-12T01:42:12 < qyx> but you can put whatever mosfet you like into a discrete buck converter and let it calculate losses at the selected freq and drive
2023-04-12T01:42:16 < qyx> or you can do it by hand
2023-04-12T01:42:47 < qyx> idk maybe there are some other and better tools too
2023-04-12T01:43:06 < qyx> one manuf had an excel sheet for it
2023-04-12T01:44:14 < machinehum> IR2101STRPBF
2023-04-12T01:44:42 < machinehum> Seems alright
2023-04-12T01:44:50 < qyx> IR2101 is a LM7805 of gate drivers
2023-04-12T01:44:57 < qyx> or STM32F103 of STM32s
2023-04-12T01:45:05 < machinehum> lol fuck
2023-04-12T01:45:27 < qyx> good for maybe <100 kHz and small gate capacitances
2023-04-12T01:46:32 < machinehum> IR4427 looks just at crusty
2023-04-12T01:46:43 < qyx> for 1 MHz you want and 10 A of current search for > 2A Ipk
2023-04-12T01:46:50 < qyx> at least
2023-04-12T01:47:03 < machinehum> I was thinking more 500khz
2023-04-12T01:48:16 < qyx> IR4427 should work
2023-04-12T01:48:46 < machinehum> 1.5A
2023-04-12T01:48:54 < machinehum> A million of them on digikey
2023-04-12T01:48:57 < qyx> it is a dual low side, so your VBUS limit will be 20 V, 25 abs max
2023-04-12T01:49:04 < qyx> and you n eed to invert one input
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2023-04-12T01:49:18 < qyx> oh and
2023-04-12T01:49:32 < machinehum> You better belive both inputs are coming from the MCU no logic in between
2023-04-12T01:49:36 < qyx> I totally missed the point your mosfet is P-channel
2023-04-12T01:49:54 < qyx> yeah if using two low side drivers, you need P and N channel
2023-04-12T01:50:24 < qyx> if using driver with a level shifter and bootstrap, you use two N channel mosfets
2023-04-12T01:50:57 < qyx> which is better because N channel mosfets generally have better parameters
2023-04-12T01:51:04 < machinehum> Oh right of course
2023-04-12T01:51:08 < qyx> than their comparable P counterparts
2023-04-12T01:52:08 < machinehum> I built an nmos hbridge once before
2023-04-12T01:52:16 < machinehum> Cool alright
2023-04-12T01:54:43 < machinehum> qyx: Thanks BTW
2023-04-12T01:55:33 < qyx> np, back to work now
2023-04-12T01:55:38 < qyx> 14 hours in a row
2023-04-12T01:55:45 < machinehum> Good luck
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2023-04-12T11:09:49 < Posterdati> hi
2023-04-12T11:10:14 < Posterdati> please help, is TIM6/7 decrementing counters on stm32h723? Thanks!
2023-04-12T11:10:26 < Posterdati> (they are basic timers)
2023-04-12T11:21:23 < jpa-> doesn't the refman say?
2023-04-12T11:22:16 < jpa-> Basic timer (TIM6/TIM7) features include:
2023-04-12T11:22:17 < jpa-> • 16-bit auto-reload upcounter
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2023-04-12T13:56:53 < Posterdati> jpa-: I captured deacreasing value in a debug sessions, but it was due to fact that the counter was at its maximum speed :)
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2023-04-12T18:39:48 < kaki> https://www.pcmag.com/news/5-year-old-windows-defender-bug-cpu-spikes-on-firefox-finally-fixed
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2023-04-12T19:20:31 < machinehum> It seems as though there is a defacto pinout for gate drivers
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2023-04-12T21:15:56 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/jonatanpallesen/status/1646168106023174144#m
2023-04-12T21:20:42 < Laurence_b> kek the repost https://twitter.com/jollyheretic
2023-04-12T21:20:49 < Laurence_b> meme mccullough
2023-04-12T21:20:57 < Laurence_b> invertor of emdrive
2023-04-12T21:24:18 < Steffanx-> https://github.com/mawerty/Is-Prime - Thecoderunsfasterwhentherearenouselessspacesandnewlines. .. got a project for you to submit some code to Laurence_b 
2023-04-12T21:24:42 < Steffanx-> i think there's a methlab implementation already though
2023-04-12T21:24:53 < Laurence_b> wonder how long before the SJWs find who emdrive prof is friends with on twatter
2023-04-12T21:25:45 < Laurence_b> https://github.com/mawerty/Is-Prime/blob/main/implementations/main.cpp
2023-04-12T21:25:49 < Laurence_b> orbital sides
2023-04-12T21:27:49 < Laurence_b> wtf kek https://twitter.com/jollyheretic/status/1638940603500077065?cxt=HHwWkoCx-fPy174tAAAA
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2023-04-12T21:48:44 < Laurence_b> til Borats brother is an internet edgelord
2023-04-12T21:52:53 < Laurence_b> the internets is a weird place
2023-04-12T21:53:06 < Steffanx-> You're not being helpful Laurence_b 
2023-04-12T22:03:31 < BrainDamage> he's just envious he cannot be a successful edgelord as them
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--- Day changed to huhti 13 2023
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2023-04-13T04:56:53 < karlp> is this still on?
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2023-04-13T10:22:06 < jpa-> hmm, kicad7 is pretty nice
2023-04-13T10:27:32 < BrainDamage> the integrated plugin manager is quite helpful
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2023-04-13T12:38:39 < Steffanx-> nRF54H20 multiple m33 cores and multiple risc-v cores at 320MHz. How fancy.
2023-04-13T12:39:51 < Posterdati> hi
2023-04-13T12:40:26 < Steffanx-> Lo
2023-04-13T12:40:38 < Posterdati> is there any example of triggering DMA for DAC with TIM6 for stm32h723? Thanks!
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2023-04-13T14:11:36 < karlp> Posterdati: yes... :)
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2023-04-13T15:30:46 < ventYl> Steffanx-: and same fucked-up peripherals?
2023-04-13T15:31:00 < Steffanx-> Perhaps :)
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2023-04-13T15:45:36 < karlp> this, at this timepoint is super interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4REmZlE7Jg&t=2415s
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2023-04-13T16:05:05 < fenugrec> the title "unlearn what you have learned" a bit clickbaity to my taste
2023-04-13T16:07:26 < kaki> don't use copper pours on signal layer
2023-04-13T16:07:44 < kaki> then proceeds to show benefits of doing copper pours on signal layer
2023-04-13T16:08:31 < kaki> *with propper via stiching
2023-04-13T16:09:39 < kaki> but results may indicate that it's not usually worth the effort
2023-04-13T16:09:42 < fenugrec> copper pour in high power low speed areas should increase thermal conductivity and reduce gradients. Not all bad
2023-04-13T16:10:08 < kaki> and that too
2023-04-13T16:29:36 < josuah> oh, bogatin!
2023-04-13T16:48:14 < josuah> might be good to note he only puts in doubt the copper pour on the signal layer?
2023-04-13T16:48:40 < josuah> still good to keep a plain ground layer I guess...
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2023-04-13T16:55:01 < kaki> ideally
2023-04-13T17:16:02 < BrainDamage> that advice is a bit conditional, for example if your signal has to cross an area where you cannot have ground layer, continuing is as a stripline is perfectly valid
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2023-04-13T20:44:26 < catphish> i'm setting up a STM32G4, it doesn't have a reset pin, is that right? do i have to do anything?
2023-04-13T20:47:59 < catphish> oh, it has PG10-NRST
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2023-04-13T21:13:54 < Steffanx-> Whats the stm32 going to drive this time catphish ?
2023-04-13T21:14:06 < catphish> multirotor
2023-04-13T21:14:19 < catphish> i'm doing another flight controller
2023-04-13T21:14:41 < Steffanx-> ah
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2023-04-13T22:21:31 < qyx> but I fear catphish is actually able to finish it
2023-04-13T22:21:51 < qyx> I did two multirotors, none finished
2023-04-13T22:22:09 < qyx> I started long before it became mainstream, in the times of mikrokopter.de
2023-04-13T22:22:21 < qyx> it was 2011 or so
2023-04-13T22:33:39 < zyp> those were the days
2023-04-13T22:36:02 < qyx> yeah atmega8 controlled over i2c
2023-04-13T22:36:24 < qyx> I did a custom version later with bigger mosfets and rs485
2023-04-13T22:38:34 < zyp> multirotors is what got me into stm32, I guess
2023-04-13T22:41:39 < zyp> I built one that flew, but weren't very controllable, and then I built another that was supposed to be better, but never got to the point of actually flying :)
2023-04-13T22:43:25 < qyx> haha same here
2023-04-13T22:45:20 < qyx> karlp: conclusion at 54:10 is wtf, every RF manufacturer recommends multiple parallel decoupling caps
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2023-04-13T23:33:39 < kaki> zyp: today I learned about CRTP
2023-04-13T23:34:12 -!- Laurence_b [~Laurence_@25.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2023-04-13T23:34:14 < Laurence_b> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-023-04275-z
2023-04-13T23:34:25 < Laurence_b> kek they have references for "supreme gentlemen"
2023-04-13T23:34:45 -!- LFSveteran [~LFSvetera@keymaker.msrv.nl] has joined ##stm32
2023-04-13T23:35:21 < kaki> hello Laurence_b
2023-04-13T23:35:53 < Laurence_b> >spent ages writing papers
2023-04-13T23:36:03 < Laurence_b> >could have just written about supreme gentlemen
2023-04-13T23:37:18 < kaki> using those words gets you on watchlist
2023-04-13T23:38:43 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-04-13T23:40:21 < LFSveteran> https://hastebin.com/share/ovomekijox.cpp
2023-04-13T23:40:34 < LFSveteran> trying to get UART working on a stm32l010rb
2023-04-13T23:40:44 < kaki> Laurence_b: not like you werent already on all of them
2023-04-13T23:40:49 < kaki> how is hypertrain?
2023-04-13T23:41:11 < Laurence_b> q: whats the difference between a cracked egg and elliot rodgers? a: the egg got laid before it cracked
2023-04-13T23:41:29 < kaki> LFSveteran: what is the issue?
2023-04-13T23:41:33 < Laurence_b> hypertrain "black box" data recorder is generating weird data :(
2023-04-13T23:41:59 < LFSveteran> There seems to be no output on the uart, I must be missing a setting
2023-04-13T23:42:50 < LFSveteran> gpio works, button press > led turns on
2023-04-13T23:43:00 < LFSveteran> using a nucleo board
2023-04-13T23:43:31 < Laurence_b> >The recently developed Incel Traits Scale (Scaptura & Boyle, 2020) was used to assess the extent participants identify with incel-related traits
2023-04-13T23:43:34 < Laurence_b> kekking hard
2023-04-13T23:44:48 < qyx> oh that LL looks nasty
2023-04-13T23:45:18 < kaki> LFSveteran: you send only one byte once?
2023-04-13T23:45:25 < LFSveteran> yes
2023-04-13T23:45:41 < qyx> I would test it in while (trueň {}
2023-04-13T23:45:47 < qyx> while (true)
2023-04-13T23:46:14 < kaki> oh
2023-04-13T23:46:21 < LFSveteran> oh, I was thinking it was in the loop...
2023-04-13T23:46:22 < kaki> and it never reaches that line btw
2023-04-13T23:46:36 < LFSveteran> too much shuffeling around
2023-04-13T23:47:13 < qyx> I cannot see any obvious mistake
2023-04-13T23:47:30 < LFSveteran> it's in the loop now..without luck
2023-04-13T23:47:45 < kaki> what is that pin toggling thing in while
2023-04-13T23:48:28 < LFSveteran> in the loop , there will be checked for a button press. If button pressed then LED on else LED off
2023-04-13T23:48:44 < LFSveteran> PIN 13 input, PIN 5 output (LED)
2023-04-13T23:51:37 < kaki> beside the point you made both RX and TX as output drivers?
2023-04-13T23:51:39 < LFSveteran> maybe incorrect order of initializing?
2023-04-13T23:51:50 < LFSveteran> yeah that looked strange to me
2023-04-13T23:52:11 < LFSveteran> but I copied that from the link mentiond below in the paste
2023-04-13T23:52:25 < kaki> also the clocks are from that?
2023-04-13T23:52:46 < LFSveteran> The processor runs on the internal RC clock
2023-04-13T23:53:04 < kaki> I would set clock source first then enable peripheral clock
2023-04-13T23:53:21 < kaki> idk if it matters it might
2023-04-13T23:53:39 < LFSveteran> could at least try
2023-04-13T23:54:09 < LFSveteran> no difference
2023-04-13T23:56:03 < kaki> try to set and reset output to TX pin
2023-04-13T23:56:37 < kaki> i think it shouldn't change the output state
2023-04-13T23:59:18 < LFSveteran> added pin 2 add the same position as pin 5, so if I press the button, and pin 2 was GPIO, it should react.
2023-04-13T23:59:41 < LFSveteran> however no reacting so I guess the pin is indeed disabled as GPIO
2023-04-13T23:59:54 < kaki> good
--- Day changed pe huhti 14 2023
2023-04-14T00:00:06 < LFSveteran> good point to test indeed
2023-04-14T00:02:24 < kaki> maybe check that tx is indeed pa2
2023-04-14T00:03:00 < kaki> then I dont have other ideas than find more code from google
2023-04-14T00:03:50 < kaki> revert the changes to clock lines
2023-04-14T00:08:26 < qyx> I checked pa2/3, AF number, etc
2023-04-14T00:08:27 < qyx> all good
2023-04-14T00:08:29 < LFSveteran> PA2 > LPUART1_TX , alternate function AF6
2023-04-14T00:08:48 < qyx> did you try scoping it?
2023-04-14T00:08:52 < qyx> baudrate mismatch?
2023-04-14T00:09:47 < LFSveteran> testing with LED connected to it, so although there could be a baudrate mismatch, the LED should flash
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2023-04-14T08:08:46 < LFSveteran> got it working now!
2023-04-14T08:09:28 < LFSveteran> was a hardware problem...two solderbridges on the nucleo were missing so the UART wasn't routed to the header
2023-04-14T08:20:50 < qyx> it is routed to stlink by default, yes
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2023-04-14T15:31:16 < Steffanx-> Yay always fun those missing solder bridges. you're not the first one to fall into this trap 
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2023-04-14T17:44:26 < jadew> more art from chatGPT: http://5.12.173.215/stuff/Screenshot%20from%202023-04-14%2017-42-37.png
2023-04-14T17:46:17 < ventYl> hm, I have managed to misconfigure stuff so bad, that I generate 19kHz signal on device, which barely makes 300Hz
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2023-04-14T21:22:22 < LFSveteran> is the time fetched with LL_RTC_TIME_Get(RTC) automaticly modified by daylight setting?
2023-04-14T21:22:48 < LFSveteran> or how can I disable daylight correction
2023-04-14T21:37:02 < qyx> idk, what does the RM say?
2023-04-14T21:42:10 < LFSveteran> ah manual says "Daylight saving time compensation can also be performed"
2023-04-14T21:42:35 < LFSveteran> good
2023-04-14T21:43:07 < kaki> LFSveteran: did you get uart workings?
2023-04-14T21:43:19 < LFSveteran> yes it works perfect now
2023-04-14T21:43:24 < kaki> what was the problem?
2023-04-14T21:44:08 < LFSveteran> It seemed the code yesterday was already ok
2023-04-14T21:44:47 < LFSveteran> I use a nucleo board and the uart isn't connect to the pin headers by default so I placed two resistors this morning
2023-04-14T21:44:57 < LFSveteran> I discovered this problem last night
2023-04-14T21:45:14 < LFSveteran> So I can check the pins but with no connection to it... :)
2023-04-14T21:45:30 < LFSveteran> The ST-link is connected by default.
2023-04-14T21:46:08 < LFSveteran> At first the UART didn't work, because the virtual comport of the ST-link showed no data
2023-04-14T21:46:42 < qyx> also, I hate DST
2023-04-14T21:46:48 < LFSveteran> I corrected the code with yesterdays code as result, but I didn't try it again with the ST-link but only through the header pins
2023-04-14T21:46:55 < qyx> living in a global world means we should use a global time
2023-04-14T21:47:33 < LFSveteran> so after placing the resistor, data showed on the pins, then I tried the virtual comport and also data there...
2023-04-14T21:48:22 < LFSveteran> I want to use the RTC but only the clock part not the calendar 
2023-04-14T21:48:54 < LFSveteran> so it would be a little nasty if the calendar reaches DST and corrects the clock
2023-04-14T21:49:31 < LFSveteran> it seems I can use the clock as UTC without problems
2023-04-14T21:49:59 < LFSveteran> meanwhile searching for eventually enabling the DST option
2023-04-14T21:50:10 < LFSveteran> just to understand the settings
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2023-04-14T21:57:56 < Laurence_b> today I had to shelter from the rain under a bridge, but bad news, there was a gang of redditors under there
2023-04-14T21:58:08 < Laurence_b> first time I have ever encountered redditors irl
2023-04-14T21:59:31 < qyx> did they have antennas on their heads?
2023-04-14T22:00:10 < Laurence_b> no, they were smoking weed and talking about "epic reddit threads"
2023-04-14T22:00:27 < Laurence_b> 11.1km^{-1} cringe
2023-04-14T22:00:42 < LFSveteran> lol
2023-04-14T22:15:57 < kaki> did you show them how to hit that stuff?
2023-04-14T22:21:10 < Laurence_b> nah I escaped without paying the troll toll
2023-04-14T22:29:45 < LFSveteran> lucky you
2023-04-14T22:44:15 < Laurence_b> Hunter Biden 2024 tbh
2023-04-14T22:46:19 < Laurence_b> coke and hookers party
2023-04-14T22:55:15 < kaki> he is going to become POTUS?
2023-04-14T22:57:32 < Steffanx-> Channer vs redditors. Redditors won.
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2023-04-14T23:56:33 < Laurence_b> https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/tsmc-cover2.jpg?resize=1024%2C666&ssl=1
--- Day changed la huhti 15 2023
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2023-04-15T05:22:06 < b-rex> flyback: greetings young sir
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2023-04-15T12:15:07 < Steffanx-> The real flyback 😱😱😱😅
2023-04-15T12:25:41 < Posterdati> hi
2023-04-15T12:26:09 < Posterdati> making DMA working from stm32h7 programming manual is quite impossible :)
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2023-04-15T12:45:46 < qyx>  This is not a rechargeable battery. Do not try to charge, they will explode an maybe burn down your house.
2023-04-15T12:53:00 < specing> I'd recharge it
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2023-04-15T13:23:09 < jpa-> Posterdati: that's why you need MDMA when you try to use MDMA
2023-04-15T13:24:00 < Posterdati> ???
2023-04-15T13:30:04 < Posterdati> the DMAMUX tables are a bit confusing
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2023-04-15T13:52:09 < catphish> qyx: i actually did build a multirotor back in 2014 using an avr8, it just about flew, i'm hoping i can do better this time
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2023-04-15T14:46:40 < jadew> I'm copying some colors from a color table on wikipedia, and most of them were like #f50, #0c0, etc
2023-04-15T14:46:46 < jadew> except one, which was "brown"
2023-04-15T14:47:06 < jadew> looked it up in the official documents: "#666" :D
2023-04-15T14:47:33 < jadew> hmm, maybe I got excited for nothing
2023-04-15T14:47:39 < jadew> that should be gray not brown
2023-04-15T14:48:28 < jadew> yeah, ignore that
2023-04-15T16:27:19 < catphish> noob question: i'm layout out a STM32G431CB, it has no ground pins, only a pad, how does one connect this to the ground plane?
2023-04-15T16:27:36 < catphish> do i just dump a via in the middle of the pad?
2023-04-15T16:27:54 < catphish> or a grid of vias and use it for heat dissipation too?
2023-04-15T16:28:00 < catphish> or something else?
2023-04-15T16:30:43 < catphish> thusly? https://i.imgur.com/PdiXVXt.png
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2023-04-15T17:04:08 < qyx> grid of vias.
2023-04-15T17:04:11 < qyx> qfn48?
2023-04-15T17:04:19 < qyx> I usually use 9
2023-04-15T17:08:09 < catphish> yeah qfn48
2023-04-15T17:08:21 < catphish> maybe 25 is excessive :)
2023-04-15T17:16:55 < zyp> for a device without significant thermal dissipation, one in each corner is more than enough
2023-04-15T17:17:09 < zyp> i.e. I'd use 4
2023-04-15T17:19:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wtTrN.png
2023-04-15T17:22:56 < zyp> got another part on the same board where I could only fit two: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/w98CT.png
2023-04-15T17:23:25 < specing> but if vias are free (are they?), why not?
2023-04-15T17:23:59 < zyp> they are not free in an area sense
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2023-04-15T17:24:40 < specing> right
2023-04-15T17:24:43 < zyp> excessive vias get in the way of routing signals on other layers
2023-04-15T17:25:13 < zyp> that's why I never put vias in the footprints themselves like some people do
2023-04-15T17:26:13 < zyp> I prefer placing the chip and routing the signal first before I decide on where and how many vias I place
2023-04-15T17:26:24 < qyx> same here
2023-04-15T17:26:36 < qyx> but usually it is not an issue
2023-04-15T17:27:46 < zyp> it's not that it's an issue, it's just about doing stuff in a sane order to make it easier for yourself
2023-04-15T17:28:40 < qyx> unrelated, any recommended usb-c power bank ic?
2023-04-15T17:29:03 < zyp> richtek got some nice looking ones, but I've never used any
2023-04-15T17:29:16 < qyx> I literally need a module actig as a power bank wih the front usb-c connector, onboard lipo and a low Iq boost to the backplane
2023-04-15T17:29:45 < zyp> you want PD both in and out, or just PD in for charging?
2023-04-15T17:29:45 < qyx> I'll check
2023-04-15T17:29:56 < qyx> not even a PD
2023-04-15T17:30:08 < qyx> the battery will be about 2 Ah
2023-04-15T17:30:10 < zyp> the fuck do you need a power bank ic for then
2023-04-15T17:30:30 < qyx> to manage buck/boost and switching between them
2023-04-15T17:30:46 < qyx> should I do that manually?
2023-04-15T17:30:50 < qyx> or with a g0?
2023-04-15T17:31:00 < zyp> why switching? sounds to me like you want a charger with powerpath and a separate boost
2023-04-15T17:31:34 < qyx> nope, front usb-c as sink/source, backplane as sink
2023-04-15T17:31:54 < zyp> and sinking only when you're not charging?
2023-04-15T17:32:00 < qyx> yes
2023-04-15T17:32:06 < qyx> on usb-c
2023-04-15T17:32:07 < zyp> okay
2023-04-15T17:32:22 < zyp> sure you want boost and not more series cells and a buck?
2023-04-15T17:32:22 < qyx> hm, bacplane too actually
2023-04-15T17:32:32 < qyx> not sure yet
2023-04-15T17:33:12 < zyp> I think this is the shit I were thinking of: https://www.richtek.com/Products/USB%20PD%20IF/USB%20Type-C%20and%20Power%20Delivery/RT7885?sc_lang=en
2023-04-15T17:33:16 < zyp> bidir PD powerbank chip
2023-04-15T17:33:18 < qyx> i need to go tothe pc and and search properly but I am close to ill-death now
2023-04-15T17:34:48 < qyx> that's pretty advanced
2023-04-15T17:35:05 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-15T17:38:39 < qyx> and if I don't want the bidir/PD shit, 5k1 is enough and I can safely draw 3 A?
2023-04-15T17:39:06 < qyx> I always forget taht
2023-04-15T17:39:58 < zyp> no
2023-04-15T17:42:05 < zyp> if you don't want PD, 5k1 pulldown asks for plain 5V, host replies with one of three different pullups to tell you whether you get 3A, 1.5A or «legacy» (i.e. up to 500mA negotiated through USB data, or whatever negotiated through other standards like BC)
2023-04-15T17:42:37 < zyp> so you can sense CC voltage to detect which pullup host is presenting and if it's the 3A option, you can then safely draw 3A
2023-04-15T17:43:55 < zyp> this is assuming input only
2023-04-15T17:44:31 < zyp> if you're gonna do bidir power through usb-c, I'd either get a special purpose chip for it, or put a stm32g0 or similar with the UCPD peripheral to manage it
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2023-04-15T18:11:15 < kaki> OL3 test phase ends and production starts
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2023-04-15T18:13:33 < kaki> it was so delayed that some French families working for Areva became Finnish
2023-04-15T18:18:19 < qyx> how do you feel in the nato kaki?
2023-04-15T18:18:32 < kaki> very good
2023-04-15T18:18:45 < qyx> are you prepare to fight for fellow europeans with your john deere?
2023-04-15T18:18:55 < qyx> and americans
2023-04-15T18:19:25 < kaki> actually tractors are used in war
2023-04-15T18:20:03 < qyx> I know
2023-04-15T18:20:08 < qyx> hence I ask
2023-04-15T18:20:26 < kaki> and probably not ready.. who is ever ready to go to war?
2023-04-15T18:21:54 < qyx> fuck war
2023-04-15T18:26:59 < qyx> I think I may easily resort to killing while trying to use ti.com from a tablet though
2023-04-15T18:27:22 < kaki> lagging like crazy?
2023-04-15T18:30:05 < kaki> qyx: apparently funland though is prepaired by paranoid levels. they started prepairing in 40s and never stopped
2023-04-15T18:32:08 < qyx> oh there are QSPI PSRAMs available at mouser
2023-04-15T18:32:41 < qyx> 64 mbit max
2023-04-15T18:41:18 < zyp> qyx, speaking of powerbanks; let's say I've got a power rail, nominally 5V, but lower is acceptable since it just feeds a bunch of stepdowns
2023-04-15T18:41:46 < zyp> I want to add a battery that feeds it when 5V is not present, and charges from it when 5V is present
2023-04-15T18:43:04 < zyp> I figure in theory I could just put in a charge chip, and if that doesn't already leak in reverse, a diode to feed the rail when it's below the battery voltage
2023-04-15T18:46:10 < qyx> yes that's enough
2023-04-15T18:46:31 < qyx> if you want stable 5 V, I used one of those integrated power modules to PWM at a fixed freq
2023-04-15T18:46:38 < qyx> it works bidirectionally
2023-04-15T18:46:43 < qyx> you can even openloop the pwm
2023-04-15T18:47:49 < qyx> I also did a module with some beefy MPS boost VBAT->4.75 V and a smaller charger with VINDPM set to around 5 V
2023-04-15T18:48:08 < qyx> that way it charges only when the rail is powered with a "proper" PSU feeding 5-5.25 V
2023-04-15T18:48:16 < qyx> you can then parallel those modules
2023-04-15T18:48:40 < zyp> ah, yeah, that's sounds close to what I want to do
2023-04-15T18:48:56 < qyx> I defined the VBUS to be 4.5-5.5 abs max
2023-04-15T18:49:04 < qyx> 4.75 is a nominal "lack of power"
2023-04-15T18:49:11 < qyx> 5.25 is a nominal "surplus of power" indicator
2023-04-15T18:50:56 < zyp> what I'm thinking of here is orbtrace, which is normally fed by USB, but I'd like to add standalone operation capabilities to it
2023-04-15T18:51:23 < zyp> e.g. headless logging, running from a battery and logging to an sd card
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2023-04-15T18:55:08 < zyp> oh, MAX17330 looks like exactly what I want
2023-04-15T19:04:42 < qyx> I used max17630, but it is a totally different thing
2023-04-15T19:08:10 < qyx> hm what does it do, regulates charge/discharge?
2023-04-15T19:18:51 < zyp> combined charge regulator, fuel gauge and battery protection
2023-04-15T19:20:01 < zyp> designed to be hooked up to a common rail, not separate input/output
2023-04-15T19:20:49 < qyx> but that rail tracks the battery voltage?
2023-04-15T19:22:18 < zyp> I think so, i.e. no boost
2023-04-15T19:22:43 < zyp> but when the shared rail is only driving bucks anyway, boost would just be wasted efficiency
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2023-04-15T21:49:06 < jadew> interesting core requirement for all android apps: they can't use custom cryptographic algorithms, only what's provided by the system
2023-04-15T21:49:28 < jadew> I wonder why that is
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2023-04-15T21:56:03 < zyp> wat
2023-04-15T21:56:26 < zyp> that's a requirement for being listed in the appstore?
2023-04-15T21:56:34 < jadew> yup
2023-04-15T21:56:38 < jadew> https://developer.android.com/docs/quality-guidelines/core-app-quality
2023-04-15T21:56:46 < jadew> search for "Cryptography"
2023-04-15T21:58:09 < jadew> "only use the stuff we can decode"
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2023-04-15T22:01:55 < zyp> as a quality requirement, it doesn't really seem all that unreasonable, there's a lot of shitty insecure crypto code around
2023-04-15T22:03:25 < jadew> yeah, it's understandable, but also not
2023-04-15T22:04:28 < jadew> cryptography is covered by ITAR in the US, and there are lots of other countries with laws on how much encryption you can have
2023-04-15T22:06:01 < jadew> I'm more inclined to believe it has to do with that, rather than them worrying that someone might consider writing their own cryptographic algorithm, rather than using something ready-made.
2023-04-15T22:07:23 < zyp> it's a list of quality requirements, «don't write insecure software» is a reasonable quality requirement
2023-04-15T22:08:10 < jadew> so what, anything else that's not provided by them is automatically insecure?
2023-04-15T22:09:07 < BrainDamage> manually reviewing a specific program's crypto sounds like a giant pain in the pass for little gain
2023-04-15T22:10:11 < jadew> why would you do? they don't give a rat's ass about people's personal information, otherwise you wouldn't see that many apps farming data on their users
2023-04-15T22:10:18 < jadew> *tho?
2023-04-15T22:13:15 < jadew> it's a good excuse, but I don't buy it
2023-04-15T22:13:43 < BrainDamage> the way I see, spying is ok as long as google gets a share
2023-04-15T22:13:52 < jadew> lol
2023-04-15T22:14:09 < BrainDamage> I mean, it's their philosophy
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2023-04-15T23:22:43 < karlp> likewise for apple, amazon, tiktok, etc etc etc
2023-04-15T23:24:44 < qyx> jadew: but they have many algos, afaik bouncycastle had those alternative ones too
2023-04-15T23:26:19 < qyx> aha BC is deprecated
2023-04-15T23:30:20 < qyx> ok even sha3 is not listed
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2023-04-16T00:40:04 < zyp> qyx, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/998371828609327224/1096911941211017256/IMG_20230415_233535.jpg
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2023-04-16T00:43:17 < kaki> zyp and qyx are competing each other on modular data acquisition platforms?
2023-04-16T00:44:04 < zyp> mine isn't data aquisition, mine is test target muxing
2023-04-16T01:31:34 < qyx> looks good
2023-04-16T01:31:57 < qyx> except that front panel and handle, is it printed?
2023-04-16T01:32:08 < zyp> yes
2023-04-16T01:33:42 < zyp> I did a bunch of different ones: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1096915921890709594/IMG_20230415_235127.jpg
2023-04-16T01:34:03 < zyp> rightmost two I printed myself, the rest are various options from jlc
2023-04-16T01:35:25 < zyp> I'd prefer the SLS nylon one, but the coarse surface texture makes it hard to clean up the paint
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2023-04-16T01:36:00 < zyp> the one mounted to the card is SLA black resin, which is much smoother
2023-04-16T01:37:55 < zyp> I'll probably throw in a couple more SLS takes next time I order orbtrace cases, they offer more surface treatment than jlc does, so it might end up usable
2023-04-16T01:39:34 < zyp> I like the ease of having a single piece front panel, rather than having to have a separate handle and brackets
2023-04-16T01:43:43 < qyx> I also considered doing them as white 2.0 mm PCBs, or even 1.6
2023-04-16T01:43:55 < qyx> and alu handles
2023-04-16T01:45:21 < zyp> I've considered doing a generic printed frame with bracket and handles that can take a pcb inlay with holes and artwork
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2023-04-16T03:00:10 < Laurence_b> https://i0.wp.com/www.theinteldrop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ScreenHunter-21604.jpg?fit=569%2C466&ssl=1
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2023-04-16T11:08:14 < qyx>  
2023-04-16T11:30:36 < Posterdati> hi
2023-04-16T11:30:49 < Posterdati> qyx: !
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2023-04-16T11:45:03 < Posterdati> please help, I configured DMA1 to transfer an uint16_t data table from memory (SRAM4) to DAC. Since DAC is 32 bit writable and readable I configured the destination to be word sized and source (memory) to be half-word size. The transfer took SNDTR = 512 instead of 1024, which is the length of the table, is the DMA (direct mode config) writing two table entry in DHR12R1 register. 
2023-04-16T11:45:06 < Posterdati> thanks!
2023-04-16T11:45:18 < Posterdati> the micro is an stm32h723
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2023-04-16T12:18:22 < boddax> fake stm32 usb-blaster got a trouble both leds stays on when powered by usb winz7
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2023-04-16T15:48:10 < Laurence_b> tfw someone uses nitter https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/tsmc-cover2.jpg?resize=1024%2C666&ssl=1
2023-04-16T15:48:30 < Laurence_b> wait wrong one doh
2023-04-16T15:49:19 < Laurence_b> https://i0.wp.com/www.theinteldrop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ScreenHunter-21604.jpg?fit=569%2C466&ssl=1
2023-04-16T15:50:29 < Laurence_b> emdrive guy is still at it lmao https://nitter.cz/memcculloch
2023-04-16T15:50:44 < Laurence_b> the emdrive face https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/cGJzLnR3aW1nLmNvbS9wcm9maWxlX2ltYWdlcy8xMTMwNDYwNzgyMTM3OTU4NDAwL3h2RW1PZGRxXzQwMHg0MDAucG5n
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2023-04-16T17:13:59 < Laurence_b> le emdrive face
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2023-04-16T21:47:29 < Laurence_b> https://take-me-to.space/HwOKZUw.jpg
2023-04-16T21:55:31 < mawk> you're watching stuff from Steffanx-'s favorite website Laurence_b ?
2023-04-16T21:55:33 < mawk> dumpert.nl
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2023-04-16T23:43:02 < Steffanx-> Dumpert most famous Dutch website 
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--- Day changed ma huhti 17 2023
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2023-04-17T00:48:16 < qyx> dumdum-what
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2023-04-17T01:30:40 < zyp> karlp, I've got a question wrt. laks: let's say you wanted to build a firmware where a single build is capable of running on multiple part variants, partly because you're mostly using a common subset of features/peripherals and partly because you're conditionally using peripherals only present in one of the parts
2023-04-17T01:31:12 < zyp> e.g. g0b1 and g071, conditionally using the USB that only g0b1 offers
2023-04-17T01:32:00 < zyp> how do you think it'd be reasonable to tell the build system what you want?
2023-04-17T01:33:18 < zyp> if you tell build system to build for g071, it won't instance the USB core, and if you tell build system to build for g0b1, it'd put initial stack in memory that doesn't exist on g071
2023-04-17T01:48:37  * karlp shrugs.
2023-04-17T01:48:47 < karlp> I'd be fine with just building two bins, if that was easy enough.
2023-04-17T01:53:29 < zyp> that's cheating :)
2023-04-17T01:57:13 < karlp> it's not very easy to do now though :) so it would still be an improvement?
2023-04-17T01:57:28 < karlp> and no, I don't think it's cheating at all really.
2023-04-17T01:59:11 < zyp> it's cheating in the sense that it's not a solution to the problem as stated :)
2023-04-17T02:00:18 < zyp> what I've done so far is just changing the ram size in the yaml so a g0b1 build fits in g071 too
2023-04-17T02:01:36 < zyp> and I should be able to just patch the platform spec from the SConstruct after parsing the yaml too, but it'd benefit from a better API to do that
2023-04-17T02:01:58 < zyp> actually, doing multiple stages of platform spec building is somewhere on my todo list
2023-04-17T02:02:54 < zyp> as well as some way to more cleverly allocate memory regions
2023-04-17T02:03:12 < zyp> although that's more oriented towards dividing flash into different sections
2023-04-17T02:15:11 < qyx> I have that covered in my personal guidelines for the case when a product keeps its version history (that means, the purpose of the product is kept), it may change the MCU used, but in this case the firmware image stays the same
2023-04-17T02:15:20 < qyx> and so it must handle both MCUs
2023-04-17T02:15:31 < qyx> never happened in practise so far though
2023-04-17T02:16:52 < qyx> but I am also conforming to semver 2, patch number increase must be fully transparent to the firmware, minor version increase must be resolved at runtime and major version increase needs newer firmware image
2023-04-17T02:17:00 < qyx> which is partially related
2023-04-17T02:18:49 < qyx> recently I was thinking a bit about runtime detection of memory and relocating memory pools and stack but I haven't invemted anything great so far
2023-04-17T02:19:42 < zyp> I haven't done anything using enough dynamic memory for that to be worthwhile yet
2023-04-17T02:19:53 < zyp> but orbtrace eventually might
2023-04-17T02:20:21 < qyx> I fukd the whole misra and I am allocating nearly everything dynamically on startup
2023-04-17T02:21:05 < qyx> with the requirement that a critical service must preallocate the maximum amount of memory it could need
2023-04-17T02:21:36 < zyp> my goal for orbtrace is to have a stable interface between the gateware and the firmware, so that while the gateware is necessarily hardware specific, a single firmware could run across all of them
2023-04-17T02:22:19 < qyx> gateware being some bootstrap/bootloader or a complete runtime?
2023-04-17T02:22:40 < zyp> gateware as in FPGA bitstream
2023-04-17T02:22:57 < qyx> oh
2023-04-17T02:23:25 < zyp> people have started calling it gateware to distinguish it from executable firmware, and I like it
2023-04-17T02:23:33 < qyx> I didn't know it is called that way
2023-04-17T02:23:50 < qyx> yeah I like the term
2023-04-17T02:25:28 < zyp> so, yeah, the orbtrace-mini has 8MB hyperram, and while it's not used for captures now, it'll be a possibility eventually
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2023-04-17T02:26:07 < zyp> and the orbtrace gateware can also be built for some fpga devboards that have gigabytes of ddr3 or something
2023-04-17T02:26:39 < qyx> hm for that purpose I am xonsidering including a manufacturer information block *somewhere* in the address space
2023-04-17T02:26:43 < zyp> hmm, not gigabytes, ecpix-5 got 512MB
2023-04-17T02:26:50 < zyp> yes
2023-04-17T02:27:06 < qyx> which can be discoveed on startup and the configuration read
2023-04-17T02:27:24 < zyp> that's what I've been planning too
2023-04-17T02:27:33 < qyx> presumably in the otp area
2023-04-17T02:28:00 < qyx> the question is how to find it avoiding scanning too many addresses for a magic
2023-04-17T02:28:34 < zyp> I was thinking about having a single readonly register at a fixed location that contains a pointer to the actual metadata structure
2023-04-17T02:29:01 < qyx> register in the fpga?
2023-04-17T02:29:06 < zyp> that way the metadata structure can live in a ROM section somewhere
2023-04-17T02:29:07 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-17T02:29:34 < zyp> e.g. 0x40000000 or whatever
2023-04-17T02:29:57 < qyx> how doyou communicate with the fpga?
2023-04-17T02:30:26 < qyx> or is orbtrace fpga only a the mcu is soft core?
2023-04-17T02:30:27 < zyp> oh, I'm thinking from the perspective of a soft-cpu in the fpga now
2023-04-17T02:30:36 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-17T02:30:52 < zyp> there's no hard-cpu on the orbtrace board
2023-04-17T02:30:55 < qyx> in that case it makes sense
2023-04-17T02:31:13 < zyp> but you can poke the internal memory space over usb too
2023-04-17T02:31:53 < qyx> in a stm32land I was thinking about option bytes or somethig similar
2023-04-17T02:32:15 < zyp> aren't option bytes all fixed function?
2023-04-17T02:32:19 < zyp> but there's OTP bytes
2023-04-17T02:32:30 < qyx> I haven't checked yet if those are on staic locations across families
2023-04-17T02:32:35 < qyx> ear or that
2023-04-17T02:33:51 < qyx> any ideas how to encode the struxture?
2023-04-17T02:34:36 < zyp> plain struct, version and/or length first
2023-04-17T02:35:00 < qyx> no fancy protobuf, flatbuf or whatever?
2023-04-17T02:35:36 < zyp> not for something that's already living in the memory space you'd be reading it
2023-04-17T02:35:59 < zyp> just make it so all you have to do is make a pointer to it and go read it
2023-04-17T02:36:16 < zyp> read version field first to know which fields are valid, in case you need to add more later
2023-04-17T02:38:10 < qyx> meh I don't like the version approach
2023-04-17T02:38:48 < zyp> why not?
2023-04-17T02:39:22 < qyx> it limits you in the future if you want to remove fields
2023-04-17T02:39:30 < qyx> you cannot reuse them
2023-04-17T02:39:38 < qyx> or, you can with some hassle
2023-04-17T02:40:00 < zyp> why is that an issue?
2023-04-17T02:40:42 < zyp> the alternative to fixed field offsets is to use field tags, then you're reinventing protobuf
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2023-04-17T02:40:59 < qyx> yeah I am using that
2023-04-17T02:42:06 < zyp> question is, which is more efficient? a few obsolete fields that you can't reuse, or a tag prefixed in fromt of every single used field?
2023-04-17T02:43:07 < qyx> idk but the question is valid
2023-04-17T02:44:24 < zyp> one approach wrt. the version stuff is to use two version tags; one to indicate the current version of the structure and one to indicate the minimum compatible version
2023-04-17T02:45:34 < zyp> that way if e.g. current version is 5 and minimum compatible is 3, a firmware that only supports version 2 could bail out and complain it's too old
2023-04-17T02:46:38 < zyp> in which case you could e.g. deprecate an obsolete field in version 3, but still keep the minimum compatible version lower for compatibility
2023-04-17T02:46:50 < zyp> and then bump minimum up to 3 when you reuse the field
2023-04-17T02:47:26 < zyp> that way anything still compatible would either ignore the field or know the new usage of it
2023-04-17T02:48:24 < zyp> I'm not sure all this applies to something going into OTP, but yeah
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2023-04-17T12:12:20 < Laurence_b> tfw https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnR4OWdOWVd3QUU5SUhRLmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxs
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2023-04-17T19:52:28 < boddax> any complete mantained eclipse package for stm32 ?
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2023-04-17T22:47:07 < qyx> hopefully not
2023-04-17T23:32:45 -!- josuah [~josuah@46.23.94.12] has joined ##stm32
2023-04-17T23:33:49 < josuah> I wonder if ST engineers use Cube for their own firmware, the one that runs on the ST-link and all the eval boards
2023-04-17T23:53:08 < Steffanx-> Karlp here some musics since you like Eurovision https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=toUGDak3o1Y
--- Day changed ti huhti 18 2023
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2023-04-18T00:21:01 < zyp> Steffanx-, feeling confident?
2023-04-18T00:22:27 < Steffanx-> Lol no. It's awful. A little out of tune 😅
2023-04-18T00:25:40 < qyx> lolful
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2023-04-18T00:41:06 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRkFTNGotc1ZVQU1jaWU4LnBuZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxs
2023-04-18T00:57:24 < sauce> interested in more quiet time are we
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2023-04-18T02:54:41 < machinehum> wtf is digikey marketplace
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2023-04-18T03:05:29 < machinehum> Packs normally wired like this? https://imgur.com/a/hGCQeSN or no parallel ties like this https://imgur.com/a/7c24cM3
2023-04-18T03:06:07 < machinehum> I can see install being not ideal with parallel ties, if batteries have different potential
2023-04-18T03:06:20 < machinehum> But without the ties you need way more balancing
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2023-04-18T07:54:54 < jpa-> machinehum: with parallel ties, you just need to make sure the potentials are equal before assembling the pack
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2023-04-18T14:06:37 < benishor> is there an alternative to dfu-util? I mean other dfu client
2023-04-18T14:09:16 < benishor> dfu-util fails to download a firmware on a stm32h7 using custom dfu bootloader whereas a browser based programmer using navigator.usb manages to
2023-04-18T14:10:32 < benishor> and as cool as WebUSB api is, I want something headless which I can add as part of a build script
2023-04-18T14:30:10 < karlp> I'd investigate what you'r enot handling properly or differently.
2023-04-18T14:30:38 < karlp> what exactly fails with dfu-util?
2023-04-18T14:31:25 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/mXacdfew
2023-04-18T14:31:38 < benishor> once in 20 times it manages to pass through
2023-04-18T14:31:52 < benishor> but when it crashes, it always crashes at erasing
2023-04-18T14:48:56 < karlp> and what's your bootloader say?
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2023-04-18T14:49:24 < karlp> I'd really recommend figuring out what the sequence is that the browser does that dfu-util is/isn't.
2023-04-18T14:51:28 < zyp> I agree; if dfu-util doesn't work, the solution is to figure out what fails and fix dfu-util
2023-04-18T14:52:13 < zyp> or rather, fix your bootloader, it sounds like
2023-04-18T14:52:37 < zyp> sounds like a timing issue, maybe hitting a race condition
2023-04-18T14:53:14 < zyp> webusb thing might be too slow to tickle it, but dfu-util is fast enough to issue a command before your device is ready to handle it
2023-04-18T14:54:03 < zyp> also, if you're doing a custom bootloader, why the fuck are you even implementing DfuSe at all, and not something plain DFU?
2023-04-18T14:55:17 < zyp> DfuSe is an extension, lets you do arbitrary flash operations, developer oriented stuff really
2023-04-18T14:56:10 < zyp> an end user doesn't need that, all an end user needs is a way to transfer an update package to a bootloader, and that's what plain DFU is
2023-04-18T15:16:26 < benishor> karlp: unfortunately I don't have the sources to the bootloader. it's one written by electro-smith for one of their boards (daisy seed)
2023-04-18T15:16:55 < benishor> if I had the sources, problem would be solved already
2023-04-18T15:21:11 < benishor> hmmm.. maybe I can fiddle around with dfu-util and introduce some delays
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2023-04-18T15:24:45 < qyx> aisler sent me a notice my order was returned back
2023-04-18T15:25:18 < qyx> that's indeed very interesting because I don't have the mentioned order number in my orders
2023-04-18T15:26:01 < zyp> benishor, have you considered just replacing the bootloader?
2023-04-18T15:30:40 < jadew> qyx, ask for a refund
2023-04-18T15:30:43 < benishor> zyp: I tried to avoid that due to wasted energy but I just might
2023-04-18T15:31:05 < benishor> tinyusb seems to have a solid dfu implementation
2023-04-18T15:46:01 < benishor> ok, so I temporarily fixed the problem by patching dfu-util
2023-04-18T15:46:24 < benishor> increasing the timeout when retrieving device status did the trick
2023-04-18T15:47:15 < benishor> I will however look into writing my own bootloader so as not to depend on others
2023-04-18T15:51:09 < josuah> I confirm that TinyUSB's dfu works well in my case
2023-04-18T15:51:27 < josuah> Another one to try would be libopencm3's USB stack? Not sure it has DFU though...
2023-04-18T15:53:55 < josuah> WebUSB sounds scary to me
2023-04-18T15:53:57 < karlp> dapboot is a libopencm3 based dfu bootloader I use on afew things
2023-04-18T15:54:13 < karlp> there's probably others.
2023-04-18T15:54:35 < karlp> file a bug with daisythat dfu-util doesn't work?
2023-04-18T15:55:13 < benishor> I posted on their forum already
2023-04-18T15:55:24 < benishor> it does work. *sometimes*
2023-04-18T15:55:49 < josuah> I got to work on some device whose only official client is WebBluetooth, therefore Google Chrome only. And users strive to get a non-web version going.
2023-04-18T15:55:57 < benishor> I will also provide them with my findings so that they can fix their bootloader 
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2023-04-18T16:06:25 < fenugrec> is there some kind of standard for this type of spring-loaded debug connections : https://pasteboard.co/hqmWl29donM3.jpg
2023-04-18T16:06:54 < fenugrec> or does "everyone" just make a custom pcb with pogo pins and some kind of plastic locating posts
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2023-04-18T16:25:19 < rajkosto> i think thats the standard one
2023-04-18T16:25:32 < rajkosto> https://www.tag-connect.com/info
2023-04-18T16:33:59 < josuah> the connector price is $0 but the cables are expensive (and patented iirc)
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2023-04-18T16:35:00 < josuah> what I have also seen is aligning the pads so that they work with this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5433
2023-04-18T16:35:47 < josuah> less patented but less standard
2023-04-18T16:43:19 < rajkosto> i mean, thats what the holes looked like in the pic he sent
2023-04-18T16:43:26 < rajkosto> the tagconnect one
2023-04-18T16:43:53 < rajkosto> https://www.tag-connect.com/product/tc2050-fp-footprint
2023-04-18T16:46:38 < fenugrec> rajkosto, oh good find, looks like an exact match
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2023-04-18T16:50:59 < fenugrec> and like josuah says, cable isn't cheap
2023-04-18T16:51:42 < rajkosto> gotta make the money somewhere since theres no pcb connector
2023-04-18T16:51:50 < fenugrec> ofc
2023-04-18T16:51:55 < rajkosto> and yes, US company with patents, ofc its expensive
2023-04-18T16:52:21 < rajkosto> but 50$ for a cable is nothing in the grand scheme of things if you use it on many pcbs
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2023-04-18T17:17:59 < zyp> I've worn out my TC2030-CTX-NL, but it's been used with a four digit number of boards, so it comes out to <$.05 per board
2023-04-18T17:20:19 < zyp> haven't had a chance to buy a replacement yet, so the other day I tore off the overmold and replaced the ribbon cable: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/r9iut.jpg
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2023-04-18T17:22:15 < fenugrec> nice
2023-04-18T17:22:26 < fenugrec> your pins still spring ok ? thought that was the part that would wear out
2023-04-18T17:23:10 < zyp> no issue with those, the issue is that the ribbon cable wears out from being flexed too much right where it enters the plug
2023-04-18T17:23:20 < fenugrec> ah I see
2023-04-18T17:24:13 < zyp> if you're gonna use it for SWD, I suggest going for the TC2030-CTX variant
2023-04-18T17:25:15 < fenugrec> yea I was initially looking at this for poking the jtag on some boards here, but was going to keep in mind for whatever next stm32 project comes up
2023-04-18T17:25:38 < zyp> if you need actual jtag, you'll want the TC2050
2023-04-18T17:26:59 < zyp> also, I'm of a bit mixed opinion about the legged variant
2023-04-18T17:27:01 < fenugrec> I'm thinking maybe just one of these for quick tests https://canada.newark.com/productimages/standard/en_US/65AC5421-40.jpg , same 1.27x1.27 pitch. Could probably 3dprint a guide-adaptor that fits around it, the pins have enough travel
2023-04-18T17:27:25 < fenugrec> you mean the one with the plastic flexible clip-legs ?
2023-04-18T17:27:43 < zyp> I don't like how the four leg holes eat a ton of board area through all four layers, so I don't use them on stuff I design myself
2023-04-18T17:28:20 < zyp> but my employer uses them on stuff I do software for, and from a user perspective it's pretty convenient
2023-04-18T17:28:41 < fenugrec> ah yes
2023-04-18T17:28:54 < zyp> the connector is symmetric, so they/we've got a footprint with pads on both sides, so the connector can be used from either side of the board
2023-04-18T17:29:19 < fenugrec> I like how tagconn's marketing says "only takes up as much space as "a few" SMD resistors !!11one" What, like about 30x 0603 resistors ? sure, "a few"
2023-04-18T17:29:29 < zyp> which is super convenient sometimes
2023-04-18T17:29:51 < zyp> well, the non-legged variant is pretty small :)
2023-04-18T17:30:26 < zyp> here's one of my old designs: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NjEyT.JPG
2023-04-18T17:31:07 < fenugrec> yea if you put it on a side with no components, you only lose area taken by the NPTH 
2023-04-18T17:31:28 < fenugrec> that looks like USB stuff, you couldn't / didn't want to DFU ?
2023-04-18T17:32:09 < zyp> I don't plan to ever design a cortex-m board without a SWD hookup
2023-04-18T17:32:38 < fenugrec> fair
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2023-04-18T19:07:11 < josuah> > but 50$ for a cable is nothing in the grand scheme of things if you use it on many pcbs
2023-04-18T19:07:31 < josuah> if it was $20, I'd get 3 of it for redundancy, and if $10, maybe a dozen even, and spread them around :)
2023-04-18T19:25:53 < machinehum> jpa-: Thanks
2023-04-18T19:26:01 < machinehum> Makes sense
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2023-04-18T20:49:37 < jadew> so my app got rejected with just this message: "Issue found: Basic functionality of app isn't working as described"
2023-04-18T20:50:27 < jadew> I check the server, no requests from the app... so they either didn't have a connection or they just relied on the automated tests the bot made
2023-04-18T20:50:51 < jadew> which (I checked the screenshots) ended up with "Failure, could not obtain current location."
2023-04-18T20:51:24 < jadew> which leads me to believe that they're relying their judgment on a fucking bot, that doesn't provide location to a location aware app
2023-04-18T20:51:52 < jadew> googling on the topic, apparently a solution seems to be to just increase the version number and resubmit
2023-04-18T20:58:50 < jadew> "That is just stupidly stupid. I'm not sure what they do to review apps but it seems more like they just don't want developers to upload apps at this point... Unless we have a contact inside Google it will just be an endless battle against bots and people who don't want to use simple logic to understand the app, even superficially."
2023-04-18T20:58:57 < jadew> that's exactly how it feels, yes
2023-04-18T21:01:58 < jadew> "Yeah, the testers are somewhat braindead. There's no reasoning with them. It's not bots, it's humans. And they're so much worse."
2023-04-18T21:02:08 < jadew> "Once we had to send them a video with voiceover, explaining how some part of our app is working as intended (they said it doesn't work)."
2023-04-18T21:14:31 < benishor> jadew: what app are you working on again?
2023-04-18T21:15:41 < jadew> benishor, shows air quality index on your phone
2023-04-18T21:15:47 < jadew> *wathc
2023-04-18T21:15:49 < jadew> watch
2023-04-18T21:26:05 < jadew> this is the facebook ads all over again
2023-04-18T21:26:37 < jadew> google using stupid automated systems to shoot themselves in the foot
2023-04-18T21:26:52 < jadew> and me in the head, in the process
2023-04-18T21:27:19 < zyp> enjoy
2023-04-18T21:39:13 < Steffanx-> in the end its just your loss, not theirs jadew  :P
2023-04-18T21:39:35 < Steffanx-> Your app is just a drop in the ocean filled with (useless) apps.
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2023-04-18T21:50:08 < benishor> jadew: good luck with the process
2023-04-18T22:01:31 < Steffanx-> Come on benishor. We're not here for moral support ;)
2023-04-18T22:02:13 < benishor> :D
2023-04-18T22:02:31 < benishor> it' called passive aggressive for a reason:D
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2023-04-18T22:27:18 < kaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCSU5KLwgM midjorney etc.
2023-04-18T22:53:36 < jadew> Steffanx-, it is their loss as well, because if it happens to me, it happens to many others
2023-04-18T22:54:03 < jadew> anyway, time for bed, ttyl
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2023-04-18T23:33:04 < qyx> jadew: I instantly uninstall apps which are not able to work without location permissions
2023-04-18T23:33:47 < qyx> even map apps can work without and they are indeed location aware apps
2023-04-18T23:39:37 < benishor> qyx: well, in this particular context I would think location is a must
2023-04-18T23:40:02 < benishor> you'd want to check the air quality in the location you are at, no?
2023-04-18T23:44:29 < Steffanx-> Enter it manually
2023-04-18T23:45:03 < zyp> hmm, python coroutines works slightly differently from C++ coroutines
2023-04-18T23:45:30 < qyx> benishor: move a pin on a map?
2023-04-18T23:45:43 < zyp> toying around with the idea of integrating async micropython with async laks
2023-04-18T23:46:05 < qyx> if you manage to integrate mycropython into anything, let me know
2023-04-18T23:46:58 < qyx> re: app permissions and wrong user experience
2023-04-18T23:47:16 < qyx> back in the time the first fully-electronic bank here was established, they had an onboarding app
2023-04-18T23:47:20 < zyp> I'm playing around with ports/embed now, seems fairly convenient since it just produces a bunch of .c/h files that you can stick into anything
2023-04-18T23:47:43 < qyx> I wasn't able to become a client because of two stupid reasons
2023-04-18T23:48:04 < qyx> the first one was the app detected rooted device (the device was not rooted)
2023-04-18T23:48:38 < qyx> and the second one, the app was explicitly requesting a camera widget (or how is it called properly) with a specific AF support
2023-04-18T23:48:49 < zyp> phones already had apps by the time you got a fully electronic bank?
2023-04-18T23:48:51 < qyx> for taking pictures of your ID card
2023-04-18T23:49:24 < qyx> 90% of devices didn't have that particular AF mode and failed
2023-04-18T23:49:42 < qyx> I wasn't able to find a single one which would work
2023-04-18T23:49:55 < qyx> I submitted them logcats and stuff and they fixed that later
2023-04-18T23:50:32 < qyx> apps should be dumb, apps should consume any dependencies they got injected
2023-04-18T23:51:26 < qyx> eg. if I disable permissions for media access, I do it with a reason
2023-04-18T23:51:41 < qyx> fuk all mobile app development anyway
2023-04-18T23:51:55 < qyx> zyp: yeah it is maybe 3-4 years ago
2023-04-18T23:52:00 < zyp> if an app requests permissions for media access, that should also be for a reason
2023-04-18T23:52:15 < zyp> what is fully electronic anyway?
2023-04-18T23:52:30 < karlp> but someone in marketting wanted an "integrated experience" instead of externing intents to existing apps.
2023-04-18T23:52:40 < karlp> so now eveyrthing has camera and blah permissions all the time
2023-04-18T23:53:19 < qyx> yes but if the purpose of the app is to eg. display a map, you are of course not failing without camera support just for taking pictures and placing them on a map
2023-04-18T23:53:28 < karlp> some of them will.
2023-04-18T23:53:42 < karlp> some apps just won't start until they've checked all their permissions.
2023-04-18T23:53:46 < karlp> don't ask me fucking why
2023-04-18T23:53:49 < qyx> yes and they can fu*k righ off
2023-04-18T23:53:51 < karlp> some manager somewhere got a brainfart.
2023-04-18T23:54:05 < karlp> some I have little choice with unfortuantely.
2023-04-18T23:55:35 < qyx> zyp: no physical access, remote onboarding, card issue, etc.
2023-04-18T23:56:18 < zyp> right, yeah, my bank has no bank offices, everything happens online
2023-04-18T23:56:45 < zyp> I've been using them since 2007 or so
2023-04-18T23:57:20 < qyx> but you are in .no and not in a sleeping part of the eu
2023-04-18T23:58:18 < zyp> the way they do onboarding here is that they physically mail you credentials with a service that requires you to show ID to pick it up
2023-04-18T23:58:59 < zyp> or I guess if you've already got an electronic ID from another bank, they accept that as well
2023-04-18T23:59:22 < qyx> that was done over a videocall
2023-04-18T23:59:25 < zyp> that's how I got onboarded at the other bank I'm using (where I got my house loan)
--- Day changed ke huhti 19 2023
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2023-04-19T00:30:36 < qyx> apparently the imx6 SoM is working but I don't have any spare energy to compile new kernel
2023-04-19T00:30:51 < qyx> and the SDK's binary one ignores my root= for some reason
2023-04-19T00:31:08 < BrainDamage> mental or electrical?
2023-04-19T00:31:14 < qyx> mental :>
2023-04-19T00:35:02 < qyx> oh it just forgot to do pivot_root
2023-04-19T00:35:06 < qyx> how is that even possible
2023-04-19T00:35:18 < qyx> probably a custom init or whatever
2023-04-19T00:38:20 < machinehum> What does NO-FIT mean in Europe? DNP? https://imgur.com/a/DQhOax0
2023-04-19T00:38:30 < machinehum> R4, top right
2023-04-19T00:45:06 < zyp> that should be pretty obvious
2023-04-19T00:45:54 < zyp> but if that's not good enough, you can go find a resistor that doesn't fit the footprint
2023-04-19T00:48:45 < karlp> TIL F103 and L151 and F030 are all basic parts at jlc...
2023-04-19T00:58:03 < kaki> I need to order some DNP resistors
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2023-04-19T01:36:57 < qyx> kaki: 20 Mohm should not fit for many purposes
2023-04-19T01:37:46 < kaki> DNP replacement?
2023-04-19T01:38:29 < ds2> what microcontroller project needs a 20M resistor?
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2023-04-19T02:18:35 < Laurence_b> >turn on bbc parliament
2023-04-19T02:18:45 < Laurence_b> >women in motorsport debate
2023-04-19T02:18:50 < Laurence_b> I cant even right now
2023-04-19T02:24:49 < catphish> are these corner holes drills or are thay part of the edge cut? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1762/4057/files/11_ec2a319c-ddfe-4000-9174-b844eb93277c.webp?v=1664517215
2023-04-19T02:26:49 < catphish> i suspect router edge cuts?
2023-04-19T02:34:07 < catphish> Laurence_b: they're not considering legalizing it are they?
2023-04-19T02:34:16 < Laurence_b> lol
2023-04-19T02:34:51 < Laurence_b> wew dat thing looks pro
2023-04-19T02:35:18 < Laurence_b> corners look like part of panel cutout to me
2023-04-19T02:35:24 < Laurence_b> what is that board?
2023-04-19T02:37:06 < catphish> https://www.happymodel.cn/index.php/2022/04/05/x12-aio-5-in-1-flight-controller-built-in-12a-esc-and-openvtx/
2023-04-19T02:37:07 < catphish> i think
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2023-04-19T02:39:56 < Laurence_b> aha https://www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/product/happymodel-x12-elrs-aio-flight-controller/
2023-04-19T02:40:04 < Laurence_b> >2.4GHz Rx
2023-04-19T02:40:14 < Laurence_b> so close to epin but they had to fail somewhere
2023-04-19T02:40:41 < Laurence_b> my friend has a megabux DJI drone, uses 5.8GHz aiui, its crazy pro
2023-04-19T02:40:55 < catphish> i have a dji mavic 2
2023-04-19T02:40:57 < Laurence_b> seems to use stereo IR cameras for tracking
2023-04-19T02:41:09 < catphish> that thing is crazy good engineering
2023-04-19T02:41:12 < Laurence_b> presumably they have a custom asic to do the camera processing
2023-04-19T02:41:32 < Laurence_b> optical flow and keypoint tracking
2023-04-19T02:41:35 < catphish> you can buy DJI digital camera transmitters separately, no idea how they work
2023-04-19T02:41:59 < catphish> oh yeah, the optical tracking is black magic
2023-04-19T02:42:01 < catphish> and it works
2023-04-19T02:42:12 < Laurence_b> I wonder if anyone has done a teardown
2023-04-19T02:42:28 < Laurence_b> its surely an ASIC at the pricepoint, FPGA would be too many $$$
2023-04-19T02:42:50 < catphish> afaik there's no IR, it's just optical optical image processing, all done with the standard 20MP camera
2023-04-19T02:43:22 < catphish> IMO it's more likely just done in a high end CPU
2023-04-19T02:44:09 < catphish> in any case, it works, my mavic 2 can follow me on its own if i walk around
2023-04-19T02:44:15 < Laurence_b> nah this one has four fixed cameras, with IR LEDs
2023-04-19T02:44:25 < catphish> oh, interesting
2023-04-19T02:44:28 < Laurence_b> yeah thats just fairly standard fairly low speed tracking
2023-04-19T02:44:38 < Laurence_b> this one has high speed tracking
2023-04-19T02:44:44 < catphish> mine just does it slowly in software
2023-04-19T02:45:08 < Laurence_b> its rock steady indoors due to keypoint tracking
2023-04-19T02:45:16 < catphish> that's cool
2023-04-19T02:45:23 < catphish> not seen anything like that from DJI
2023-04-19T02:45:24 < Laurence_b> and can work out true altitude from stereo comparison
2023-04-19T02:45:34 < catphish> they're mostly all about outdoor photography
2023-04-19T02:46:05 < Laurence_b> dont know the product name, only saw it today
2023-04-19T02:46:50 < Laurence_b> its like the pixhawk camera module, but with 4(!) cameras, and they seem to be highish res monochrome IR. There are also high power IR LEDs that turn on in the dark
2023-04-19T02:47:21 < Laurence_b> it can fly through trees without hitting branches
2023-04-19T02:48:38 < Laurence_b> they have presumably put together an image tracking asic to get it so responsive - even desktop class processor would struggle to do that in software
2023-04-19T02:50:28 < Laurence_b> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Nn4AAOSw2B1jdZQe/s-l500.jpg
2023-04-19T02:51:00 < Laurence_b> maybe a newer maveric pro - older maveric pro has single tracking camera + ultrasound
2023-04-19T02:54:22 < Laurence_b> https://forum11.djicdn.com/data/attachment/forum/202207/04/175618mkgsw7pkyipiqtkz.jpg
2023-04-19T02:54:25 < Laurence_b> damn
2023-04-19T02:54:29 < Laurence_b> dual custom asics
2023-04-19T02:54:42 < Laurence_b> these guys spent $$$ on development
2023-04-19T02:54:56 < Laurence_b> lol it would be epin to haxor those asics with custom code
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2023-04-19T02:56:09 < Laurence_b> I'm guessing H6M runs lunix and has custom accelerators, and P1 is an accelerator asic
2023-04-19T02:56:40 < Laurence_b> but there is embedded lunix on that flash ic
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2023-04-19T02:59:42 < Laurence_b> from the thermal compound, those things look like they pump out a lot of heat
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2023-04-19T06:21:49 < jadew> qyx, I feel the same about the permissions, but this is the the thing of this app, you look at your watch, you know what the air is like right now, where you are
2023-04-19T06:22:30 < jadew> it doesn't help you if it's telling you what the air is like downtown, or at your place, when you are at work, because it varies wildly even at a distance of a few blocks
2023-04-19T06:23:15 < jadew> on top of that, I want to introduce fixed position for air quality (so no location needed), but developing for Wear OS is a huge pain in the butt, and I won't do that unless there's some interest for the app first.
2023-04-19T06:23:59 < jadew> (which I doubt there will be, because there are some other similar apps available and they get virtually no downloads)
2023-04-19T06:24:27 < jadew> this was kind of an experiment to see what the whole process is like - it's shit
2023-04-19T06:26:17 < jadew> in either case, the app isn't sending location details tied to anything that could identify the user, so I'm trying to be as little of a creep as possible
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2023-04-19T07:07:40 < benishor> jadew: you could make it a lot "safer" by reversing the locating
2023-04-19T07:08:10 < benishor> make the app connect to your whatever server and ask for a chunk of data for a particular grid square
2023-04-19T07:08:52 < jadew> it's already like that
2023-04-19T07:08:54 < benishor> and let the app shwo the data for the actual location inside the app
2023-04-19T07:09:06 < jadew> in the sense that you're getting an accuracy of 20-30 meters
2023-04-19T07:09:07 < benishor> this also have the benefit of caching
2023-04-19T07:09:28 < benishor> well, you're getting an accuracy of 20-30 meters due to the location service, no?
2023-04-19T07:09:33 < jadew> yeah
2023-04-19T07:10:03 < benishor> I meant more, ask for data pertaining to a larger square
2023-04-19T07:10:14 < benishor> if security is that big of a deal
2023-04-19T07:10:25 < jadew> yeah, I know, but no security is not a big deal
2023-04-19T07:10:34 < jadew> especially since there's no way to identify individual users
2023-04-19T07:10:35 < benishor> you can also cache that for a while since the inertia is large I believe
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2023-04-19T07:11:37 < jadew> currently it's there are only two users using the service and I don't know which one is me
2023-04-19T07:11:47 < jadew> I wouldn't be able to tell
2023-04-19T07:12:04 < jadew> s/it's//
2023-04-19T07:15:20 < benishor> of course you would
2023-04-19T07:15:30 < benishor> by checking the requesting addresses
2023-04-19T07:15:45 < benishor> and you can make an idea
2023-04-19T07:15:52 < jadew> the physical address?
2023-04-19T07:15:56 < benishor> ip address
2023-04-19T07:16:14 < benishor> what server are you using to serve the data?
2023-04-19T07:16:38 < jadew> ah, well, the other user has the same address as me, and even if he didn't, I wouldn't know who's IP address a particular IP address is - it's just a number
2023-04-19T07:16:50 < jadew> my own
2023-04-19T07:16:58 < benishor> static? dynamic?
2023-04-19T07:17:25 < jadew> static
2023-04-19T07:18:19 < benishor> are you using ssl/tls?
2023-04-19T07:19:59 < jadew> obviously
2023-04-19T07:20:59 < benishor> and HttpsURLConnection on client side I assume
2023-04-19T07:21:09 < jadew> :) yeah
2023-04-19T07:22:34 < benishor> so, is there a way to re-trigger app validation from a human?
2023-04-19T07:23:21 < jadew> I tried that, and they gave the same braindead response
2023-04-19T07:23:30 < jadew> also, there was no activity on the server
2023-04-19T07:23:46 < jadew> so I think they just look at the screenshots the bot makes during initial automated testing
2023-04-19T07:24:01 < jadew> which is a bot that doesn't provide location :/
2023-04-19T07:25:40 < jadew> judging by the screenshots, it provides all the permissions up-front, but doesn't provide a location
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2023-04-19T08:23:02 < jadew> I submitted it again with some instructions. If they reject it again, I'll make it ping the server various points, so I can debug the reviewing process.
2023-04-19T08:23:09 < jadew> *at
2023-04-19T08:23:37 < jadew> I'm skeptical that they even run the app
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2023-04-19T09:07:32 < jpa-> it could also be that there is some bug that it actually doesn't run on some specific device
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2023-04-19T09:13:31 < jadew> jpa-, thought about that, but they don't report what they're using
2023-04-19T09:14:08 < jpa-> typical google
2023-04-19T09:14:32 < jadew> I can't replicate "not working"
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2023-04-19T22:24:17 < mawk> I'm smoking heroin in a moldy basement
2023-04-19T22:24:25 < mawk> I've achieved all my life goals now
2023-04-19T22:24:47 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/bLO4NZX.jpeg
2023-04-19T22:24:58 < mawk> bonus dutch text for Steffanx- in the image
2023-04-19T22:28:34 < Steffanx-> Why on earth you even do this mawk?
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2023-04-19T22:38:46 < Laurence_b>  a country in terminal decline that doesn't even allow Greggs to sell Sausage rolls after 11pm
2023-04-19T22:40:12 < LFSveteran> nachtapotheker?
2023-04-19T22:40:25 < LFSveteran> ik blijf bij de drugs weg
2023-04-19T22:50:20 < mawk> ja nachtapotheker
2023-04-19T22:50:24 < mawk> it's cheaper Steffanx- 
2023-04-19T22:50:31 < mawk> so it lasts longer
2023-04-19T22:50:36 < mawk> I'm running low on dope
2023-04-19T22:51:19 < Steffanx-> I mean why the drugs.
2023-04-19T22:51:31 < Steffanx-> Ohno LFSveteran is another dutchy?
2023-04-19T22:51:42 < LFSveteran> yes
2023-04-19T22:51:50 < mawk> that's not a question I can answer
2023-04-19T22:51:57 < mawk> you need to ask 12 years old mawk
2023-04-19T22:52:08 < Steffanx-> 25 yo mawk can stop it.
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2023-04-19T22:55:47 < mawk> 26
2023-04-19T22:55:55 < mawk> too hard 
2023-04-19T22:55:58 < mawk> I'll see that later
2023-04-19T23:17:34 < mawk> where are you in this beautiful country LFSveteran 
2023-04-19T23:17:46 < mawk> with the peasants up north?
2023-04-19T23:37:02 < qyx> usb d+ is green or white?
2023-04-19T23:37:05 < qyx> google is 50:50
2023-04-19T23:38:00 < qyx> going further, green as d+ seems to win
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2023-04-19T23:47:25 < kaki> hello STEFF
--- Day changed to huhti 20 2023
2023-04-20T00:00:49 < Steffanx-> Hello kaki 
2023-04-20T00:04:49 < kaki> what to do
2023-04-20T00:05:15 < kaki> to wait for sleep
2023-04-20T00:05:48 < kaki> movie?
2023-04-20T00:07:39 < LFSveteran> capital
2023-04-20T00:07:47 < kaki> interesting option
2023-04-20T00:08:17 < kaki> what is LFS?
2023-04-20T00:08:34 < LFSveteran> Linux from scratch
2023-04-20T00:08:44 < mawk> yes qyx green
2023-04-20T00:09:29 < mawk> large file storage
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2023-04-20T00:18:46 < kaki> LFSveteran: is that some embedded thing?
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2023-04-20T01:46:43 < mawk> no kaki
2023-04-20T01:46:57 < mawk> it's just something linux fans do to feel pleasure
2023-04-20T01:47:06 < mawk> building a Linux box from scratch
2023-04-20T01:48:02 < kaki> and uni cs students
2023-04-20T02:00:53 < zyp> do people still do that?
2023-04-20T02:01:08 < zyp> I dicked around with LFS like 20 years ago
2023-04-20T02:09:54 < qyx> yeah same here in 2004 or so
2023-04-20T02:10:16 < qyx> on a single floppy
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2023-04-20T05:18:09 < fenugrec> lol, bourns.com has been "down for more than a week" . Pro
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2023-04-20T08:34:17 < jadew> so my app has been up for about 24 hours - no downloads yet
2023-04-20T08:34:52 < jadew> I guess that's why there aren't that many apps, it's a dead market
2023-04-20T08:46:54 < qyx> your app is apparently not very pro then
2023-04-20T08:54:13 < jadew> it probably isn't, but it's one of the few on the store that does that and the other ones are trash
2023-04-20T08:55:08 < jadew> so there are either very few users looking for watch apps, or there's something else going on
2023-04-20T08:55:33 < jadew> I don't buy the 17% market share figure
2023-04-20T08:56:46 < jadew> 17% of 33 million means 5.6 million
2023-04-20T08:57:12 < jadew> with that many users and like... only 300 apps total, one of them should have stumbled upon it
2023-04-20T08:59:47 < jpa-> have you tested with unrelated account whether it shows up in search?
2023-04-20T09:00:10 < jpa-> there may be some ranking that discourages apps with very low install counts
2023-04-20T09:00:11 < jadew> my account is unrelated
2023-04-20T09:00:45 < jadew> there just aren't that many apps there, you're bound to find it even if it's at the bottom
2023-04-20T09:23:59 < LFSveteran> Linux from sources indeed...I'm just another weird guy.
2023-04-20T09:24:15 < LFSveteran> Not following the guide for years now
2023-04-20T09:24:28 < LFSveteran> even using it for RPi etc.
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2023-04-20T09:45:04 < qyx> firs of all jadew, I cannot search apps for watches only
2023-04-20T09:45:25 < qyx> search always selects games first
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2023-04-20T09:46:58 < qyx> ok the seaarch is unusable
2023-04-20T09:47:17 < jadew> everything is shit
2023-04-20T09:48:47 < qyx> I am sorry to hear that if you expected to earn millions
2023-04-20T09:49:13 < jadew> I didn't, it was really just an experiment
2023-04-20T09:49:24 < jadew> in case there was something there
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2023-04-20T18:46:49 < Steffanx-> What's your app called jadew?
2023-04-20T18:47:02 < Steffanx-> And what watches does it run on?
2023-04-20T18:49:18 < jadew> Steffanx-, it's called Air Quality Buddy, and it runs on Wear OS 3
2023-04-20T18:49:55 < jadew> trying to get it to run on Wear OS 2 as well, but I stumbled upon more awkwardness in google's services
2023-04-20T18:50:03 < Steffanx-> I can find watch apps but might only be those compatible with tizen os
2023-04-20T18:50:23 < jadew> tizen OS is also android?
2023-04-20T18:51:50 < Steffanx-> No
2023-04-20T18:55:37 < ventYl> isn't tizen somehow connected with either firefox OS or that ancient Nokia stuff?
2023-04-20T18:55:49 < jadew> Nokia's stuff was symbian
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2023-04-20T18:56:03 < rajkosto> until the N900 which was based linux OS
2023-04-20T18:56:05 < jadew> I think it died with nokia
2023-04-20T18:56:25 < ventYl> MeeGo replacement
2023-04-20T18:56:40 < jadew> having so many operating systems sucks
2023-04-20T18:57:03 < ventYl> one more won't hurt anyone
2023-04-20T18:57:24 < jadew> we would have better apps if there were fewer
2023-04-20T18:57:46 < qyx> but that's not how a free market works
2023-04-20T18:58:20 < jadew> I didn't say we should ban them, I'm not a commie
2023-04-20T19:01:19 < qyx> I cannot find your app
2023-04-20T19:01:34 < qyx> I donbt know how to browse all apps
2023-04-20T19:01:37 < jadew> how are you searching for it?
2023-04-20T19:01:43 < qyx> I cannot use search
2023-04-20T19:01:49 < qyx> it finds bullshit
2023-04-20T19:01:58 < Steffanx-> Same here
2023-04-20T19:02:02 < jadew> if you search for the exact name it should show up
2023-04-20T19:02:16 < qyx> but I don't know the exact name
2023-04-20T19:02:27 < qyx> that's not how users search
2023-04-20T19:02:45 < qyx> I am using "air quality"
2023-04-20T19:02:57 < jadew> yeah, but then you get everything for every platform
2023-04-20T19:03:08 < jadew> on the watch there are 3 things with that in their name
2023-04-20T19:03:10 < jadew> including mine
2023-04-20T19:03:30 < qyx> so there is your problem
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2023-04-20T19:04:22 < qyx> the whole play store is unusable
2023-04-20T19:05:37 < qyx> google finds nothing too
2023-04-20T19:05:55 < jadew> well, I got approved yesterday
2023-04-20T19:06:01 < jadew> *it
2023-04-20T19:08:11 < jadew> I'm not sure if I understand the current errors I'm getting correctly, but it appears that subscriptions are not supported on Wear OS 2 (even tho the billing library is the same and the payment flow would be the same - since it happens on the phone), while in app purchases are supported
2023-04-20T19:08:27 < jadew> so... I might have to implement subscriptions myself, using in-app purchases
2023-04-20T19:08:38 < jadew> even tho the feature is there
2023-04-20T19:10:02 < jadew> I asked for confirmation from google... I don't have the energy to experiment further
2023-04-20T19:12:03 < jadew> I think I spent ~250 hours (if not more) on this simple app
2023-04-20T19:13:18 < jadew> it was fully working in ~2-3 days, and the rest was spent working around the OS
2023-04-20T19:14:39 < jadew> I still haven't figured out how to do some things
2023-04-20T19:15:01 < jadew> for example they provide a setAmbientImage() on some of those complications, but it doesn't work
2023-04-20T19:15:19 < jadew> weirdly enough, the complications they provide do work
2023-04-20T19:16:44 < jadew> but there are no examples or working code using those methods
2023-04-20T19:19:16 < jadew> I think Wear OS is largely useless for google, because they can't display ads
2023-04-20T19:20:31 < jadew> of course, I'm making this guess with the assumption that their code in other areas is top notch, and it's only shit here because of the lack of motivation
2023-04-20T19:21:11 < jadew> although, I've never seen crap code/APIs from microsoft
2023-04-20T19:21:25 < jadew> even in their free stuff
2023-04-20T19:45:11 < Steffanx-> I have.
2023-04-20T19:47:45 < fenugrec> jadew, I think historically there's a strong correlation between software with 'buddy' in the name, and spyware/adware/shitware (think browser toolbars of the 2000's ...), and I would probably subconsciously filter out any such software
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2023-04-20T19:49:25 < fenugrec> but then again, the only 'wearables' I have are actual clothes, not computerized privacy invasion devices, so not the typical audience
2023-04-20T20:00:20 < jadew> I never used any such tools
2023-04-20T20:00:42 < jadew> I did make a browser toolbar for a company once
2023-04-20T20:00:44 < jadew> for IE
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2023-04-20T21:02:32 < machinehum> Anyone know what the oscillation might be at the begining https://imgur.com/a/Xnf47Af it goes away when I disconnect the voltage ref cct.
2023-04-20T21:03:04 < machinehum> But the output of that opamp should be fine with whatever the bias of that pin is
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2023-04-20T21:50:49 < jpa-> machinehum: the high 1Mohm feedback resistors and the input capacitance probably cause some oscillation
2023-04-20T21:51:24 < jpa-> why so high resistance?
2023-04-20T21:52:21 < machinehum> jpa-: I can go to 100k no problemo
2023-04-20T21:52:50 < machinehum> Guess I just went with 1M for quiescent
2023-04-20T21:55:26 < jpa-> yeah, 100k should be safe.. 1Mohm * 3pF is about 50kHz, where the opamp still has plenty of gain to oscillate
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2023-04-20T22:02:45 < machinehum> If I want to reduce the error in the bottom left plot (red line actual, grey line exact) what opamp parameters should I be looking at https://imgur.com/a/pGDQPa3 ?
2023-04-20T22:03:19 < machinehum> Basically just a difference amp into gain of 50 amp
2023-04-20T22:04:33 < machinehum> It looks like some offset, which I would assume is Voltage - Input Offset
2023-04-20T22:04:43 < machinehum> And then some nonlinearity
2023-04-20T22:05:05 < machinehum> Dunno what parameter that is
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2023-04-20T22:30:47 < kaki> Steffanx-: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430304/ movie
2023-04-20T22:33:03 < fenugrec> machinehum, at high input resistances you'll have to look at input bias current too
2023-04-20T22:35:43 < fenugrec> i.e. total input offset = V_os + I_os*Z_in or something like that
2023-04-20T22:36:28 < fenugrec> cmos/jfet-input opamps have practically zero I_os but higher V_os unless you spend
2023-04-20T22:39:05 < fenugrec> looks like you're making some kind of current sense amp - suggest looking at proper current-sense amps, e.g. ina180/181 etc
2023-04-20T22:39:32 < Steffanx-> Take it easy kaki
2023-04-20T22:39:52 < Steffanx-> still many movies to watch... https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/s6ZY4pfp/bla.png
2023-04-20T22:39:59 < kaki> you like dumb comedy movies with imdb rating of 5?
2023-04-20T22:40:24 < Steffanx-> No.
2023-04-20T22:40:35 < kaki> you weird
2023-04-20T22:41:04 < Steffanx-> Yes. Welcome comrade 
2023-04-20T22:41:17 < kaki> now tell me you don't like fart humour neither
2023-04-20T22:41:30 < Steffanx-> I don't like fart humor
2023-04-20T22:42:46 < kaki> what service that in the screenshot?
2023-04-20T22:42:58 < Steffanx-> It's Plex 
2023-04-20T22:43:16 < Steffanx-> I like Jimmy Carr's (the British comedian) humour 
2023-04-20T22:44:21 < Steffanx-> Or this dutch guy with the best (subtle) word plays in dutch 
2023-04-20T22:52:42 < Steffanx-> You're welcome, kaki 
2023-04-20T22:54:13 < kaki> Rack's mom
2023-04-20T22:54:48 < qyx> thank you systemd https://paste.jvnv.net/view/E9AIo
2023-04-20T22:56:21 < kaki> Steffanx-: what is that plex thing?
2023-04-20T22:56:50 < kaki> what is the catch?
2023-04-20T22:57:46 < Steffanx-> The catch is that you have to find a source for your movies.
2023-04-20T22:58:02 < Steffanx-> It's just a media server kaki 
2023-04-20T22:58:12 < Steffanx-> You have to get your movies elsewhere 
2023-04-20T22:58:53 < kaki> ah
2023-04-20T22:59:02 < kaki> so not free movies actually?
2023-04-20T22:59:07 < zyp> arrr
2023-04-20T22:59:16 < kaki> ye
2023-04-20T22:59:45 < kaki> set a sail, pass me that rum
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2023-04-20T23:20:15 < Laurence_b> https://vid8.poal.co/user/StabEm/YY7ahFz?u=t
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2023-04-20T23:28:43 < Steffanx-> Ok a little smile there, Laurence_b  :P
2023-04-20T23:33:51 < zyp> you're actually opening those links?
2023-04-20T23:47:02 < Steffanx-> I did this time 
2023-04-20T23:56:43 < qyx> etf was it
--- Day changed pe huhti 21 2023
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2023-04-21T00:39:06 < qyx> machinehum: usually you cannot reference the input at GND when you are using single supply for your op-amp
2023-04-21T00:40:08 < qyx> you have to explicitly check if your op-amp is not only RRI, but if the input *includes* ground, or better, if the input is allowed to swing below ground
2023-04-21T00:40:36 < qyx> otherwise for single supply op-amps you are using a virtual ground, usually vdda/2
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2023-04-21T00:43:38 < Laurence_b> >digitalocean is chopping off http gets at 1500 characters
2023-04-21T00:43:40 < Laurence_b> lmao
2023-04-21T00:43:56 < Laurence_b> the absolute state of web devs
2023-04-21T00:44:08 < Laurence_b> I said this was a problem last year and its still not fixed
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2023-04-21T00:47:03 < machinehum> qyx: Oh interesting
2023-04-21T00:47:37 < machinehum> They're R/R for sure
2023-04-21T00:48:15 < machinehum> I'll check if input includes gnd
2023-04-21T00:49:08 < machinehum> 1/2*vdd is annoying because I then have to shift down
2023-04-21T00:49:16 < machinehum> To sample into the mcu
2023-04-21T00:55:48 < machinehum> I guess all you need to to just subtact off the 1/2vcc
2023-04-21T00:59:48 < qyx> just use a proper current sense opamp
2023-04-21T01:00:02 < zyp> qyx, since we're on the topic of analog/adc, any good suggestions for how to do an analog frontend for the current signals at the top here? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gWxK7.png
2023-04-21T01:00:44 < qyx> for the hassle of your complex circuit and price of two op-amps, you can get a decent current sense opamp built specifically to include GND (and below) and above VCC
2023-04-21T01:01:18 < qyx> what's that zyp
2023-04-21T01:01:25 < zyp> for my fanuc robot
2023-04-21T01:01:53 < zyp> I assume those are R and S as in the first two conductors of R/S/T
2023-04-21T01:02:06 < machinehum> qyx: I'll take a look
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2023-04-21T01:02:48 < qyx> zyp: so you are measuring between A1/B1, A2/B2, etc?
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2023-04-21T01:03:11 < qyx> total of 12 signals,
2023-04-21T01:03:12 < zyp> I don't know what levels they'll be at, but given that I've got ±15V supply rails, I expect the signal to fall somewhere in there
2023-04-21T01:03:17 < zyp> I believe so, yes
2023-04-21T01:04:02 < zyp> for the ADC, I was thinking about some shit like this: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2303021100_Texas-Instruments-ADC121S021CIMFX-NOPB_C701596.pdf
2023-04-21T01:04:16 < ds2> doesn't TI make the INA series to do all of this?
2023-04-21T01:04:35 < qyx> ds2: for machinehum, yes
2023-04-21T01:04:47 < zyp> was considering using a stm32g4 per axis, which would give me ADCs, but I think I'll just attempt handling everything in the FPGA
2023-04-21T01:05:18 < zyp> which means I want a FPGA that's easy to use with a FPGA, and that fits the bill
2023-04-21T01:05:27 < qyx> do you need simultaneous sampling or muxing is okay?
2023-04-21T01:06:35 < qyx> hm an INA on the input fed with +-15 V as an attenuator & level shifter, keep REF at VDDA/2
2023-04-21T01:06:44 < qyx> and a sigma-delta modulator maybe?
2023-04-21T01:06:57 < qyx> no setup, e-z, PDM to the FPGA?
2023-04-21T01:07:12 < zyp> simultaneous or muxed isn't really important, what I'm more unsure about is the analog frontend side
2023-04-21T01:07:38 < machinehum> TSC888 Seems alright
2023-04-21T01:07:40 < qyx> I would treat it as a pseudo differential and use a high voltage INA
2023-04-21T01:08:05 < qyx> those 36 V should do at +- 15
2023-04-21T01:08:13 < zyp> I'm not sure how the signal is scaled
2023-04-21T01:08:28 < zyp> I guess I'll have to figure that out experimentally
2023-04-21T01:08:35 < qyx> you'll just adjust the gain setting resistor
2023-04-21T01:08:42 < zyp> yeah
2023-04-21T01:09:26 < zyp> I figure I'll have to just drive a small pwm duty, measure externally what current I'm getting and comparing to what I measure
2023-04-21T01:10:06 < ds2> couldn't you put in clamping diodes and adjust it til it no longer clips?
2023-04-21T01:10:29 < machinehum> Actually the INA** looks way better, lots of different gains and shit
2023-04-21T01:10:32 < qyx> machinehum: unavailable, 1 mA current consumption and 1.50 € in singles
2023-04-21T01:10:58 < qyx> diodes inc. has some cheap c-s amps
2023-04-21T01:11:13 < machinehum> Which is unavailable? the TSC888?
2023-04-21T01:11:22 < qyx> checking mouser only
2023-04-21T01:11:25 < qyx> yes
2023-04-21T01:11:36 < machinehum> I like the INA units better
2023-04-21T01:12:07 < qyx> yeah ina180 is good
2023-04-21T01:12:24 < machinehum> I was looking at the INA213
2023-04-21T01:12:35 < machinehum> But I'll checkout the 180
2023-04-21T01:13:09 < zyp> I'm also not sure what signal levels the pwm/enable signals are at, but the dot denotes active low, so I figure I might be able to measure what level it's idling at with the original controller
2023-04-21T01:14:17 < zyp> I kinda assume 5V, but I'm also not sure they're actually running 5V signalling between devices in an industrial controller
2023-04-21T01:14:52 < machinehum> Oh whoa that measured voltage is independent of the supply voltage... so you don't have to worry about the output blowing up your mcu
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2023-04-21T02:38:58 < fenugrec> zyp, some industrial controllers use -10..+10 or 0..+10V for analog rangles, and 0/24V for digital IO (thinking PLC style inputs here), not sure they would PWM the 24V though
2023-04-21T02:39:05 < fenugrec> analog *ranges
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2023-04-21T02:40:19 < fenugrec> I think I have some fanuc docs here... which series is yours ?
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2023-04-21T09:51:20 < zyp> fenugrec, arm is an ARC Mate 120, controller is a R-J2
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2023-04-21T15:50:21 < fenugrec> ok I just have oldass 0M/0T stuff and misc docs for an ABB arm
2023-04-21T15:52:01 < zyp> mine is also oldass, mid 90s
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2023-04-21T23:26:00 < fenugrec> ooh interesting topology : https://pasteboard.co/2utd2kuEld7K.png some kind of dual sepic + cuk hybrid ? didn't know that could work
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2023-04-21T23:31:39 < zyp> the controller is a regular boost controller
2023-04-21T23:32:26 < fenugrec> yes
2023-04-21T23:32:57 < fenugrec> I'm not pro enough to see how both rails can have acceptable regulation with different loads
2023-04-21T23:33:26 < fenugrec> nor why L11 / L12 can/should be different
2023-04-21T23:37:14 < zyp> same
2023-04-21T23:43:08 < BrainDamage> L12 is paired with L13 and L14 with L15
2023-04-21T23:43:28 < BrainDamage> this looks like the kind of sadistic circuit our power electronics prof gave as exam
--- Day changed la huhti 22 2023
2023-04-22T00:00:14 < fenugrec> they don't seem to be coupled inductors
2023-04-22T00:00:46 < fenugrec> something like http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/AN-1106.pdf is also with coupled inductors
2023-04-22T00:01:50 < fenugrec> aren't L13,14,15  "outside" the switching loop ?
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2023-04-22T00:06:49 < BrainDamage> they way I see is that L12-L13 and L14-L15 come into play on a differential mode, while L11 and L13//L14 on common mode
2023-04-22T00:07:34 < BrainDamage> so the L11 will act on lines inbalances
2023-04-22T00:07:59 < BrainDamage> but to give a proper answer I'd have to give a full circuit analysis, for which I have 0 energy atm
2023-04-22T00:10:14 < qyx> it has so many inductors that two discrete converters are probably more sane and economical
2023-04-22T00:35:10 < fenugrec> a later model (no schems for it) seems to replace L13,14,15 with ferrite beads, so just 3 power inductors
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2023-04-22T00:50:58 < qyx> meanwhile finding a CSD95379Q3M replacement
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2023-04-22T01:10:05 < qyx> speaking of weird topologies
2023-04-22T01:14:57 < qyx> i am looking for a sync buck/boost willing to be abused to work in two quadrants
2023-04-22T01:15:27 < qyx> we have been talking about it in the past, probably with BrainDamage 
2023-04-22T01:21:27 < qyx> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/595386/can-a-synchronous-buck-converter-be-operated-in-reverse
2023-04-22T01:21:49 < fenugrec> you wanted bidirectional conversion to a battery IIRC ?
2023-04-22T01:22:05 < qyx> left is a 2S li-ion, on the right is a 5 V Vbus
2023-04-22T01:22:30 < fenugrec> a ~ common scenario for powerbanks i'm guessing ?
2023-04-22T01:22:38 < fenugrec> small powerbanks probably 1S though
2023-04-22T01:22:46 < qyx> so the controller must not be a current mode one and it must not have a reverse current flow blocking
2023-04-22T01:23:30 < qyx> hm yes, 5 V in to charge, 5 V out to discharge, 1S or 2S battery inside
2023-04-22T01:24:27 < qyx> but OTG chargers cannot be used because they are not able to instantly chamge between charging and discharging
2023-04-22T01:25:21 < qyx> all charging ICs with OTG boost functionality have a delay before enabling the boost converter to function in reverse
2023-04-22T01:25:47 < fenugrec> MPS probably has stuff for this kind of application
2023-04-22T01:25:54 < fenugrec> if you haven't checked already
2023-04-22T01:26:36 < qyx> I have but didn't find anything suitable, hence I am looking among classic vregs too
2023-04-22T01:27:56 < zyp> semi-related: I was looking at mean well BIC-2200 earlier today
2023-04-22T01:28:54 < zyp> seems like a nice supply for motor control shit, since it'll take care of braking energy as well
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2023-04-22T08:41:03 < ColdKeyboard> What am I doing so wrong that flash erase is freaking out with FlashErrorCode: 0xA0 (HAL_FLASH_ERROR_PGA + HAL_FLASH_ERROR_PGS)
2023-04-22T08:41:41 < ColdKeyboard> PageError seems out of whack for some reason HAL_FLASHEx_Erase: 0x01 - PageError: 0x2000478C - FlashErrorCode: 0xA0
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2023-04-22T08:49:34 < ColdKeyboard> Interesting thing is that even if I try manually setting to wipe 1 page at page 29/30/31, it just fails...
2023-04-22T08:49:40 < ColdKeyboard> I'm using STM32G050K8T6 btw
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2023-04-23T06:26:12 < ColdKeyboard> Is __disable_irq(); sufficient to disable all interrupts?
2023-04-23T06:26:28 < ColdKeyboard> I think this memmory issue might be due to (timer) interrupt firing
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2023-04-23T07:16:58 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: on single core, yes
2023-04-23T07:17:43 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Sweet
2023-04-23T07:18:11 < ColdKeyboard> I can't figure out why PGAERR and PGSERR bits are always set. Even after clearing them, they get set immediately after :\
2023-04-23T07:18:57 < ColdKeyboard> I can see a lot of people mentioning this issue, PGAERR and PGSERR sticky error bits and FLASH_WaitForLastOperation issue but nobody has a solution :(
2023-04-23T07:35:48 < ColdKeyboard> WTH... jpa- does this make any sense. If I disable SPI1, then erase+write to MCU flash works fine. However if I enable SPI1, then it fails
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2023-04-23T08:48:33 < jpa-> could dma affect something? i don't know
2023-04-23T08:49:15 < jpa-> also if you are using some HAL code or similar, make sure it doesn't call __enable_irq() behind your back
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2023-04-23T09:26:22 < ColdKeyboard> Ok, I'm losing my mind slowly...
2023-04-23T09:27:12 < ColdKeyboard> erase+write work fine if I place it "higher" in the code. It does no work the 2nd time even if I wait for ~5sec
2023-04-23T09:27:49 < ColdKeyboard> And if i disable IRQ, the code just hangs because FLASH_WaitForLastOperation relies on HAL_GetTick()
2023-04-23T09:28:03 < ColdKeyboard> if I don't disable IRQ, then I get HAL_TIMEOUT error
2023-04-23T09:28:37 < ColdKeyboard> It's probably time for sleep, this is very weird
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2023-04-23T09:34:17 < ColdKeyboard> Is HAL_FLASHEx_Erase the correct method for erasing flash?
2023-04-23T09:34:45 < ColdKeyboard> There is also FLASH_PageErase but I assume I should use HAL_FlashEx_Erase or at least that's what STM example uses
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2023-04-23T10:43:43 < qyx> I assume you are not running from flash you are trying to erase
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2023-04-23T16:04:00 < englishman> jpa- has been reverse engineered https://www.anvilsecure.com/blog/nanopb-protobuf-decompiler.html
2023-04-23T16:09:00 < Steffanx-> heh
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2023-04-23T17:02:21 < Laurence_b> >That government message at 3 just crashed Microchip Studio. Half a days work gone
2023-04-23T17:02:23 < Laurence_b> lulwut
2023-04-23T17:02:29 < Laurence_b> truly epin lulz if true
2023-04-23T17:02:54 < catphish> mine didn't crash anything
2023-04-23T17:03:30 < Laurence_b> why would the message even be on a pc
2023-04-23T17:03:45 < Laurence_b> unless he is running microchip studio on a phone, in which case wtf
2023-04-23T17:04:03 < Laurence_b> tfw my old nokia doesnt get any stupid messages
2023-04-23T17:04:22 < Laurence_b> actually if gets emergency sms, which is the proper emergency system
2023-04-23T17:04:32 < Laurence_b> designed by actual engineers
2023-04-23T17:09:28 < catphish> LTE system seems to work well
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2023-04-23T17:13:39 < Laurence_b> I should look into how it works
2023-04-23T17:13:48 < Laurence_b> if its some web based shit its stupid
2023-04-23T17:15:29 < Laurence_b> ah ok it uses a LTE broadcast message, so not completely stupid... but
2023-04-23T17:15:42 < Laurence_b> its not acknowledged by the devices lmao
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2023-04-23T17:16:06 < Laurence_b> GSM emergency broadcast mode is acknowledged by devices
2023-04-23T17:16:48 < Laurence_b> ok apparently microshart guy was hotspotted to phone
2023-04-23T17:16:57 < Laurence_b> I still dont see how that would make it crash
2023-04-23T17:21:01 < Laurence_b> epic troll story is epic troll
2023-04-23T17:21:23 < Laurence_b> >sue the government for crashing ur shit
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2023-04-23T17:28:56 < catphish> fuck i hate designing power supplies
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2023-04-23T17:29:09 < catphish> even more now i'm trying to do so on a tight space budget
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2023-04-23T17:37:52 < jpa-> englishman: heh, interesting :)
2023-04-23T17:38:37 < englishman> ha. i expected you to already know. you always know everything.
2023-04-23T17:55:41 < jpa-> about stuff i use, but i never use nanopb
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2023-04-23T18:26:47 < Laurence_b> lol bbc news
2023-04-23T18:26:49 < Laurence_b> ""My phone didn't go off, but my best friend's did. I had it on do not disturb, but I don't understand why I didn't get it.""
2023-04-23T18:27:04 < Laurence_b> because the packet isnt acknowledged by the device
2023-04-23T18:27:08 < Laurence_b> epic design fail
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2023-04-23T19:21:11 < catphish> i understood the problems were largely network related - "Many users of the Three mobile network said they did not receive the alert."
2023-04-23T19:21:23 < catphish> poor effort :)
2023-04-23T19:21:51 < catphish> > A spokesperson for the company later said it was"aware that a number of customers have not received the test alert. We're working closely with the government to understand why and ensure it doesn't happen when the system is in use".
2023-04-23T19:21:52 < jadew> ai generated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7TnkdCgGo
2023-04-23T19:21:56 < qyx> what did happen?
2023-04-23T19:22:07 < ColdKeyboard> [03:43] <qyx> I assume you are not running from flash you are trying to erase
2023-04-23T19:22:18 < catphish> something tells me the government are not going to help them fix their network
2023-04-23T19:22:20 < ColdKeyboard> I shouldn't, I'm erasing the last page (31)
2023-04-23T19:22:49 < qyx> oh so you are
2023-04-23T19:24:10 < ColdKeyboard> Wait, what?
2023-04-23T19:24:17 < qyx> if the flash is single bank only, on sme devices that works (stalls until the erase is completed)
2023-04-23T19:24:26 < qyx> eg. on F4 iirc
2023-04-23T19:24:38 < ColdKeyboard> I'm using STM32G050K8, it's single bank
2023-04-23T19:24:41 < qyx> on some it doesn't work at all (eg. L0)
2023-04-23T19:25:07 < qyx> the lashing function needs to be in sram
2023-04-23T19:25:46 < ColdKeyboard> Oh interesting...
2023-04-23T19:26:02 < ColdKeyboard> Do you have example or links where I can look how to set function in sram?
2023-04-23T19:26:05 < BrainDamage> catphish: what was the alert for? russians launching v2 towards london?
2023-04-23T19:26:17 < catphish> BrainDamage: yes
2023-04-23T19:26:32 < catphish> but it didn't work, all uk people are now dead
2023-04-23T19:27:13 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: I got inspired by libopencm3, there is an example for L0 with appropriate attributes to move stuff to sram
2023-04-23T19:28:18 < jpa-> catphish: unfortunately only people, trolls like lb seem to have survived in their caves
2023-04-23T19:28:31 < zyp> qyx, not entirely true (re: L0)
2023-04-23T19:29:00 < zyp> L0 flash can be written while executing from it, it's just slow as fuck
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2023-04-23T19:29:22 < zyp> my L0 bootloader does that because I couldn't be assed to make it run from ram
2023-04-23T19:30:09 < jpa-> if you have working .data section loader, making stuff run from ram is just __attribute__((section(".data.ramfunc")))
2023-04-23T19:32:11 < ColdKeyboard> Weird thing is that this exact same code works on G030 but doesn't on G050
2023-04-23T19:32:45 < ColdKeyboard> I don't understand why PGS ERR and PGA ERR are set...
2023-04-23T19:32:48 < zyp> jpa-, also noinline
2023-04-23T19:33:51 < jpa-> true
2023-04-23T19:34:48 < jpa-> maybe you are hitting errata "2.2.3 Overwriting with all zeros a Flash memory location previously programmed with all ones fails"
2023-04-23T19:34:50 < zyp> running a single function from ram is easy, ensuring everything it calls is also running from ram can be tedious
2023-04-23T19:36:09 < ColdKeyboard> I'm using last page to store some "calibration" data. It's ~50 bytes, the rest of it empty
2023-04-23T19:36:20 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Thanks, I'll look at the errata now.
2023-04-23T19:36:59 < ColdKeyboard> Again, super confused that this works on STM32G030 but not on STM32G050 and it's failing inside HAL HAL_FLASHEx_Erase -> FLASH_WaitForLastOperation
2023-04-23T19:38:06 < catphish> dafuq JLCPCB, why u have DC-DC converters in your "basic" parts, but no inductors, surely anyone who orders one must be buying an inductor to go with? P(
2023-04-23T19:38:26 < catphish> (power inductors)
2023-04-23T19:39:51 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- How would I be hitting this 2.2.3 errata issue? It's failing at erase which should be setting everything to 1, right?
2023-04-23T19:39:59 < jpa-> ah
2023-04-23T19:40:02 < jpa-> nevermind then
2023-04-23T19:40:27 < jpa-> is the flash size correct, i.e. does your device actually have as much flash as the other one?
2023-04-23T19:41:27 < ColdKeyboard> Good point. It is, I double checked. And this function works the first time if I call it very early but afterwards it does not
2023-04-23T19:41:57 < ColdKeyboard> If I look at 0x0800F800 I can see that it programed the data the first time. But if I call same function for the 2nd time or later in the code. It doesn't work
2023-04-23T19:42:31 < jpa-> if you step through instruction-by-instruction, what happens?
2023-04-23T19:42:58 < jpa-> (not line by line, that will skip interrupts and other unexpected stuff)
2023-04-23T19:43:17 < ColdKeyboard> It fail at FLASH_WaitForLastOperation that is within HAL_FLASHEx_Erase
2023-04-23T19:44:08 < jpa-> after what register write do the error bits get set in the status register?
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2023-04-23T19:45:21 < ColdKeyboard> It's basically failing here https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeG0/blob/master/Drivers/STM32G0xx_HAL_Driver/Src/stm32g0xx_hal_flash.c#L614-L619
2023-04-23T19:46:24 < jpa-> that code looks like the error has to happen earlier, where some operation gets started
2023-04-23T19:46:50 < ColdKeyboard> The error is HAL_ERROR, FlashErrorCode is 0xA0 which is those two flags I mentioned. But PageError is weird it's 0x08001383 which is less than the page I'm trying to erase
2023-04-23T19:46:53 < jpa-> you can use e.g.   "display /x FLASH->SR" and "display /i $pc"  and then "stepi" to actually get a good trace of what happens
2023-04-23T19:47:15 < ColdKeyboard> Oh cool, I can try that now
2023-04-23T19:48:13 < ColdKeyboard> btw addr2line returns this address as the function I use to save config :\
2023-04-23T19:48:16 < jpa-> btw. what is the page address you are trying to erase?
2023-04-23T19:48:25 < ColdKeyboard> 0x0800F800
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2023-04-23T19:51:11 < jpa-> "During a program/erase operation to the Flash memory, any attempt to read the Flash memory stalls the bus. The read operation proceeds correctly once the program/erase operation has completed."   sounds like you can execute from flash while erasing it, so that shouldn't be a problem
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2023-04-23T19:54:39 < jpa-> you can also double-check PNB (page to erase) in FLASH->CR after the failure
2023-04-23T19:57:13 < ColdKeyboard> I'm a noob so I'm using Ozone from JLink instead of GDB
2023-04-23T19:57:34 < ColdKeyboard> Have to figure out now if I'm looking at FLASH->SR :)
2023-04-23T19:58:00 < jpa-> then that probably makes it easy enough that you don't need instructions, because why would you use it if it is harder than gdb? ;)
2023-04-23T20:01:56 < ColdKeyboard> Well it's easy for setup for a newbie :)
2023-04-23T20:11:06 < ColdKeyboard> So one interesting thing, the pFlash is zeroed while in FLASH_WaitForLastOperation
2023-04-23T20:11:26 < ColdKeyboard> Basically just the Lock is set, but address, banks, page and NbPagesToerase are all 0
2023-04-23T20:11:34 < ColdKeyboard> Is this expected?
2023-04-23T20:12:26 < jpa-> the HAL variables don't say anything to me and the hardware doesn't care about them either, and debuggers can sometimes show wrong values on optimized code
2023-04-23T20:12:40 < jpa-> i would focus on actual register values
2023-04-23T20:13:42 < ColdKeyboard> Good point, let me check that
2023-04-23T20:18:41 < ColdKeyboard> So flash sr should be at 0x08002010 I believe
2023-04-23T20:20:29 < jpa-> no, i don't think so
2023-04-23T20:20:59 < jpa-> you don't have symbols? so that you can just type FLASH->SR?
2023-04-23T20:21:36 < jpa-> i think FLASH->SR is 0x40022010
2023-04-23T20:22:16 < ColdKeyboard> I loaded the .elf file so I can see functions, code etc. I should be able to see FLASH->SR but
2023-04-23T20:26:05 < jpa-> gcc may need some funny switches like -g3 to make register definitions available as symbols
2023-04-23T20:26:38 < jpa-> ozone may also support loading .svd or something for the register definitions
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2023-04-23T20:38:01 < Steffanx-> It does 
2023-04-23T20:39:42 < ColdKeyboard> I loaded the .svd and I can see the Flash->SR in the register list
2023-04-23T20:39:54 < ColdKeyboard> Now to step through and find when that error gets set :)
2023-04-23T20:43:23 < ColdKeyboard> Should I care that during main init Programming or erase configuration busy (CFGBSY) bit is getting set?
2023-04-23T20:47:25 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- It seems that those two flash error flags are getting set during init in main
2023-04-23T20:47:29 < ColdKeyboard> But the function is `display_gfx_init();` :S
2023-04-23T20:49:53 < jpa-> maybe your first write is leaving the flash in programming mode or something?
2023-04-23T20:51:34 < ColdKeyboard> Ok I feel very stupid now...
2023-04-23T20:52:07 < ColdKeyboard> I disabled the IWD since I can't (don't know how to) debug with it enabled...
2023-04-23T20:52:22 < ColdKeyboard> As soon as I call WDT_Reset() those two flags get set
2023-04-23T20:52:59 < ColdKeyboard> I was expecting that WDT_Reset would just fail to reset WDT and continue. Not sure why it's affecting Flash register but at least now I know it does :D
2023-04-23T20:53:14 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks jpa- you are a life saver! :)
2023-04-23T20:53:37 < jpa-> .. does it actually work if you comment it out?
2023-04-23T20:54:39 < jpa-> because for me it just sounds like you may be misdiagnosing due to some confusion with debugger
2023-04-23T20:55:52 < jpa-> i'm not sure what this WDT_Reset function is though
2023-04-23T20:55:53 < ColdKeyboard> If I add return at the top of wdt reset function, it works fine
2023-04-23T20:56:07 < ColdKeyboard> it's basically HAL_IWDG_Refresh(&hiwdg);
2023-04-23T20:57:41 < jpa-> such a lot of definitions to search through to see that it's just IWDG->KR = IWDG_KEY_RELOAD;
2023-04-23T20:57:50 < jpa-> i never understand why people bother with ST's HAL
2023-04-23T20:58:12 < jpa-> still seems unlikely to fully explain what you are seeing
2023-04-23T20:58:32 < jpa-> but you can hope it doesn't come bite you later
2023-04-23T20:58:44 < ColdKeyboard> I hope it doesn't
2023-04-23T20:58:55 < ColdKeyboard> I'll keep poking around to see what is really going on
2023-04-23T20:59:05 < ColdKeyboard> but at least now I know where things start to fall apart and can focus on that
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2023-04-23T21:17:18 < qyx> zyp: it didn't work for me and I also found a ref. for it, I placed a single programmig function in sram
2023-04-23T21:22:45 < zyp> qyx, it depends which programming mode you're using
2023-04-23T21:22:56 < zyp> the fast one needs to run from ram, the slow one can run from flash
2023-04-23T21:23:23 < zyp> see https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp#n66 for a functional implementation of the slow one
2023-04-23T21:27:08 < qyx> oh yeah then
2023-04-23T21:27:21 < qyx> of course I didnbt use the slow one
2023-04-23T21:31:00 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- you are right, something else is causing PGAERR and PGSERR to get set
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2023-04-23T21:53:57 < kaki> wtf someone registered my nick
2023-04-23T21:53:59 -!- kaki is now known as Guest4793
2023-04-23T21:54:34 < Steffanx-> Hah
2023-04-23T21:54:40 < Guest4793> steff you bastard
2023-04-23T21:55:33 < Steffanx-> Wasn't me sir no-more-kaki
2023-04-23T21:55:43 -!- Guest4793 is now known as nomorekaki
2023-04-23T21:55:46 < nomorekaki> thanks
2023-04-23T21:55:56 < nomorekaki> new nick innovated
2023-04-23T21:56:19 < Steffanx-> Reminds me i still have to fix my nick
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2023-04-23T21:56:35 < nomorekaki> I didn't know libera had registering
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2023-04-23T22:03:06 < Steffanx> heh, registered yesterday nomorekaki -_-
2023-04-23T22:03:26 < nomorekaki> nope
2023-04-23T22:03:29 < Steffanx> yes
2023-04-23T22:03:45 < Steffanx> i mean you kaki account
2023-04-23T22:03:46 < Steffanx> Registered : Apr 22 09:04:42 2023 +0000 (1d 9h 56m 33s ago)
2023-04-23T22:04:59 < nomorekaki> greenwich time?
2023-04-23T22:06:10 < Steffanx> idk some time
2023-04-23T22:08:14 < Steffanx> Time to go back to the nick you had before kakimir, whatever it was
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2023-04-23T23:20:31 < Steffanx> Bitmask where are thou?
--- Day changed ma huhti 24 2023
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2023-04-24T00:58:48 < Laurence_b> For a period of several weeks in 1966, Kaczynski experienced intense sexual fantasies of being female and decided to undergo gender transition. He arranged to meet with a psychiatrist, but changed his mind in the waiting room and did not disclose his reason for making the appointment. Afterwards, enraged, he considered killing the psychiatrist and
2023-04-24T00:58:48 < Laurence_b> other people whom he hated. Kaczynski described this episode as a "major turning point" in his life
2023-04-24T00:58:58 < Laurence_b> keeekk unabomber is the original tranny
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2023-04-24T01:06:52 < specing> lolz
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2023-04-24T01:53:30 < Laurence_b> wait wtf
2023-04-24T01:53:32 < Laurence_b> https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD808/30038969
2023-04-24T01:53:37 < Laurence_b> shit got real
2023-04-24T01:53:46 < Laurence_b> inb4 shot down
2023-04-24T02:04:10 < specing> they seem a kilometer apart
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2023-04-24T15:34:09 < zyp> qyx, ref. my ADC/frontend question from the other day, looks like the trick is to just use ADS8675
2023-04-24T15:36:07 < zyp> 14-bit ADC with built in PGA, can do up to ±12.288V, reasonably available and not awfully expensive
2023-04-24T15:37:00 < zyp> also has a SPI interface that looks convenient to drive with a FPGA, and I can daisy chain them to save IO
2023-04-24T15:50:10 < mawk> what is a PGA
2023-04-24T15:50:51 < mawk> they say your part is "multiSPI"
2023-04-24T15:51:08 < mawk> is that the daisy-chain thing?
2023-04-24T15:51:51 < mawk> >Programmable Gain Amplifier (PGA)
2023-04-24T15:51:53 < mawk> I suppose it's that
2023-04-24T15:51:53 < zyp> nah
2023-04-24T15:51:55 < zyp> yes
2023-04-24T16:01:55 < zyp> it's great because it both means that I don't have to build the analog frontend circuitry myself and that I don't have to worry too much about what signal range is used, because I can just test it in practice and configure the gain accordingly by setting a config register
2023-04-24T16:03:09 < zyp> daisy chaining means I can just treat them as simple shift registers and chain as many as I want without adding extra control signals
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2023-04-24T16:06:37 < zyp> just depends how fast I want to run it
2023-04-24T16:07:20 < zyp> ADC can do 500kSPS, but with 12 chained I'll be limited to somewhere between 100-150kSPS
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2023-04-24T19:35:51 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kiTWnmrXPQ how about 2003 tiesto?
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2023-04-24T20:02:09 < Steffanx> it's alright nomorekaki 
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2023-04-24T20:10:58 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPKOBr4cC_o how about some trapchillhousewave?
2023-04-24T20:16:51 < Steffanx> maybe some 1999 trance instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnj4NzwAL8
2023-04-24T20:20:59 < Steffanx> kaki made some (energetic) trance too i see, nomorekaki : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVpZ__LzXuI
2023-04-24T20:22:40 < Steffanx> still not enough boom boom for mawk i think.
2023-04-24T20:23:26 < mawk> boem boem boem
2023-04-24T20:23:33 < Steffanx> biem.
2023-04-24T20:23:49 < mawk> biem bam boem
2023-04-24T20:37:05 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: nice energetic
2023-04-24T20:40:02 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2023-04-24T21:09:45 < nomorekaki> but it's too hard.. it just pushes constantly and is anxious to get the beat back on
2023-04-24T21:10:04 < nomorekaki> 3/5
2023-04-24T21:10:30 < nomorekaki> maybe it's how the genre is
2023-04-24T21:11:28 < catphish> is cubeide good yet?
2023-04-24T21:11:40 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2023-04-24T21:11:54 < catphish> or will i try it for 3 minutes like i always do before going back to makefiles
2023-04-24T21:13:10 < nomorekaki> visual studio code
2023-04-24T21:13:47 < catphish> yeah, i usually use vscode + gcc + makefile
2023-04-24T21:14:02 < nomorekaki> catphish: you have assumption that they would make cubeide good?
2023-04-24T21:14:32 < catphish> well, i feel like i'm missing out on the nice debugger by not using cubeide
2023-04-24T21:15:09 < nomorekaki> hmm
2023-04-24T21:15:12 < catphish> but i'm sure i'll never enjoy using it, and i'm also sure they'll neve make a nice wizard that just gives you a simple project with headers available
2023-04-24T21:15:20 < nomorekaki> I haven't tried debugging yet on visual studio code
2023-04-24T21:15:39 < catphish> i've never figured out a way to do so, i debug with LEDs and printf :)
2023-04-24T21:15:46 < begriffs> What about OpenOCD + gdb/ddd for debugging?
2023-04-24T21:15:49 < nomorekaki> you think it doesn't have GDB support?
2023-04-24T21:16:36 < nomorekaki> I'm doing 8bit for now so I wont do target debugging
2023-04-24T21:17:07 < nomorekaki> code is automatically perfect
2023-04-24T21:17:14 < begriffs> BTW, question about ISRs. I've got a SysTick handler that increments a global tick count, and a delay() function that reads the count. Should the two functions ideally use some kind of instructions to make the reads and writes atomic? The code is C99 and CMSIS.
2023-04-24T21:17:53 < catphish> 1) i've never managed to use gdb effectively, does it integrate with vscode nicely? 2) usually i want to look in registers, cubeide has a nice way to browse them, never found a nice way to explore the chip with gdb
2023-04-24T21:18:10 < catphish> though maybe with all the headers available and vscode inegration it could work
2023-04-24T21:20:16 < begriffs> catphish you can go to Status->Registers in DDD to pop up a window with those. For the memory mapped stuff, you can place a watch on CMSIS symbols. I also created a helper gdb function to print out the diagnostic memory locations: https://github.com/begriffs/obsd/blob/master/home/.gdb/arch/cm3.init#L7-L20
2023-04-24T21:22:42 < begriffs> Also if your GDB has python support, you can use the PyCortexMDebug plugin that reads SVD files describing the registers and gives you helpers to see them. Assuming you're using Arm Cortex... https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/cortex-m-hardfault-debug#debugger-plugins
2023-04-24T21:24:04 < catphish> thanks, i'll set something up and see how i get on
2023-04-24T21:24:16 < catphish> usually my code is 100% perfect though, so no need to debug
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2023-04-24T21:25:39 < begriffs> yep same here, debuggers are for other people, not me  ;) hah
2023-04-24T21:46:20 < PaulFertser> stm8 is supported by OpenOCD bttw
2023-04-24T21:54:04 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser woke up
2023-04-24T21:56:34 < PaulFertser> Got triggered :)
2023-04-24T21:58:23 < zyp> begriffs, it's probably enough to just mark the count variable as volatile
2023-04-24T21:59:28 < zyp> as long as it's not larger than 32-bit, a single variable will be read and written atomicly in any case
2023-04-24T22:00:02 < zyp> and as long as it's only being written in one place, i.e. the ISR
2023-04-24T22:01:14 < zyp> atomicity only starts being an issue when either the variable is so large it can't be read in a single operation, or when multiple pieces of code are competing to write it
2023-04-24T22:01:40 < zyp> competing to read-modify-write it, that is
2023-04-24T22:02:38 < zyp> in other words, when you need to do more than one memory operation, and other code can inject other memory operations in between them
2023-04-24T22:03:23 < catphish> where can one find STM32 linker scripts? the official repo seems to have "example" ones but not a complete set
2023-04-24T22:03:59 < zyp> what's a STM32 linker script?
2023-04-24T22:04:18 < catphish> a ld script for gcc
2023-04-24T22:04:40 < zyp> I know what a linker script is, but what makes it a STM32 linker script?
2023-04-24T22:05:09 < catphish> i would assume it needs to contain the correct memory map for each chip
2023-04-24T22:06:25 < zyp> most of what goes into a linker script is specific to the code it's linking, not what chip it's linking for
2023-04-24T22:06:41 < catphish> that's absolutely not my experience of linker scripts
2023-04-24T22:06:53 < zyp> i.e. linker scripts go hand in hand with startup code
2023-04-24T22:07:03 < catphish> well, i suppose it needs to contain both
2023-04-24T22:07:24 < zyp> you can't just take a random linker script and a random startup code and just expect them to work together
2023-04-24T22:07:33 < catphish> and this is my point i'm using startup code from the official repo
2023-04-24T22:07:51 < zyp> so grab the linker script from the same repo?
2023-04-24T22:07:55 < catphish> Drivers/CMSIS/Device/ST/STM32G4xx/Source/Templates/gcc/startup_stm32g431xx.s
2023-04-24T22:08:03 < zyp> what repo is that?
2023-04-24T22:08:53 < catphish> afaik there is no matching linker script, or if there is, i don't know how to find it
2023-04-24T22:08:56 < catphish> that's the problem :(
2023-04-24T22:09:04 < zyp> give me the repo url, I'll find it for you
2023-04-24T22:09:08 < catphish> he repo is known to me as STM32Cube_FW_G4_V1.5.1
2023-04-24T22:09:16 < zyp> that's not an url
2023-04-24T22:09:20 < catphish> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeG4
2023-04-24T22:10:36 < catphish> thanks!
2023-04-24T22:10:59 < catphish>  to be clear, my chip is STM32G431CB, and i'm using the startup script "startup_stm32g431xx.s"
2023-04-24T22:12:47 < catphish> i've been confused by this before, so it would be great to understand how one is supposed to put this together
2023-04-24T22:15:00 < zyp> looks like cubeide are generating them on demand, like this: https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeG4/blob/master/Projects/NUCLEO-G431RB/Templates/STM32CubeIDE/STM32G431RBTX_FLASH.ld
2023-04-24T22:15:35 < catphish> i wonder if that might be the case, perhaps it's as simple as modifying that one to match my flash size
2023-04-24T22:15:41 < zyp> which is probably not entirely unreasonable, because they're often project specific
2023-04-24T22:15:44 < zyp> yes, likely
2023-04-24T22:16:16 < catphish> i probably know enough about CPUs to write my own init code and linker script, but i'd really rather just not :)
2023-04-24T22:16:59 < catphish> i managed to do it for a 68HC11 recently, but it's not fun
2023-04-24T22:17:17 < catphish> oh yeah, it clearly says "Auto-generated by STM32CubeIDE"
2023-04-24T22:17:19 < zyp> for a typical XIP setup with a given startup code, all the changes between different targets are usually the MEMORY {} section
2023-04-24T22:17:44 < catphish> failing that, i suppose i could generate a project for my chip, and copy the generated code
2023-04-24T22:18:01 < zyp> so before I used to put the MEMORY {} section in a chip specific file, and then just include a common base for everything else
2023-04-24T22:18:33 < zyp> see e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts
2023-04-24T22:18:57 < zyp> arm_flash_ram.ld is the common stuff for XIP with laks startup, and all the rest are just MEMORY {} sections
2023-04-24T22:19:12 < zyp> and some projects override it with custom MEMORY {} definitions
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2023-04-24T22:19:45 < zyp> e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/ which provides arcin.ld and bootloader.ld
2023-04-24T22:21:12 < catphish> the only difference betwen G431RB and G431CB is pin count anyway
2023-04-24T22:21:34 < zyp> in laks v2, I've dropped all the hardcoded chip specific files, and I'm instead just generating the whole file from a template, dynamically filling in the MEMORY section: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts/generated.ld.j2?h=dev_v2
2023-04-24T22:22:05 < catphish> so i suspect this file will meet my needs, i guess ST came to the same conflusion that it makes sense just to generate them
2023-04-24T22:22:25 < zyp> yep
2023-04-24T22:23:02 < zyp> I'm going to add more dynamic stuff to the laks linker script generator eventually
2023-04-24T22:23:31 < zyp> e.g. first out is some sort of memory segmentation mechanism
2023-04-24T22:24:50 < zyp> chip definition says e.g. chip got 128k flash, project definition says e.g. first 8k is bootloader and the rest is application, and then laks goes and generates a file for first 8k when it's building bootloader and another for the remaining 120k when it's building application
2023-04-24T22:34:41 < catphish> zyp: thanks, my environment seems happy now anyway, now to write some codes :)
2023-04-24T22:39:17 < qyx> hm, configuring pin as analol one doesn't disable ESD diodes, does it?
2023-04-24T22:39:56 < qyx> if I current limit the ADC input, I may yolo and omit external diodes to VSSA/VDDA?
2023-04-24T22:39:59 < qyx> I better check
2023-04-24T22:40:22 < zyp> 5V tolerant pins doesn't have ESD diodes, but IIRC there's some parts with 5V tolerant pins that are not 5V tolerant when in analog mode
2023-04-24T22:50:14 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/okfsX/Screenshot_2023-04-24_21-49-46.png
2023-04-24T22:50:17 < qyx> should be ok I guess
2023-04-24T22:52:32 < zyp> what do you think about the ADS8675 I mentioned earlier? :)
2023-04-24T22:53:27 < qyx> oh I forgot
2023-04-24T22:53:38 < qyx> interesting it has wider range than VDDA
2023-04-24T22:53:55 < qyx> also high input impedance
2023-04-24T22:54:01 < zyp> I figure that's because it starts with a divider before the PGA
2023-04-24T22:54:20 < zyp> but yeah
2023-04-24T22:54:53 < zyp> it's interesting it wants 5V VDDA, not entirely sure how I should supply it :)
2023-04-24T22:55:06 < qyx> and avaiable and not that expensive as I was expecting
2023-04-24T22:55:19 < qyx> why is it interesting?
2023-04-24T22:55:44 < qyx> many ADCs even in 2023 have weird requirements
2023-04-24T22:55:52 < qyx> like those super pro op-amps I am using
2023-04-24T22:56:00 < zyp> well, I've got a probably noisy 5V rail, so I'm wondering if I should hang it off that or hang it off a LDO from the +15V rail
2023-04-24T22:56:06 < qyx> and I forgot they required 4.5 V minimum
2023-04-24T22:57:27 < qyx> in my $work $proto[-2] I fukd up some things so I powered the ADC from a noisy 5 V, filtered it with a 5 pole pi LPF and I achieved datasheet noise specs
2023-04-24T22:58:02 < zyp> «5 pole pi LPF» sounds very pro, what does it look like in practice?
2023-04-24T22:58:07 < qyx> but it was a sigma delta ADC
2023-04-24T22:58:14 < qyx> c, l, c, l, c :>
2023-04-24T22:58:25 < zyp> ah
2023-04-24T23:02:01 < qyx> is there a 16 bit variant of the same ADC?
2023-04-24T23:03:33 < zyp> yes
2023-04-24T23:04:19 < qyx> the daisy chain feature looks cool for isolated ADCing
2023-04-24T23:05:36 < zyp> ADS8681/8685/8689
2023-04-24T23:05:46 < zyp> is the 16-bit variant
2023-04-24T23:06:29 < zyp> also ADS869x for 18-bit
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2023-04-24T23:17:49 < begriffs> zyp thanks. Yeah my variable is volatile uint32_t. The ISR increments it (read modify write) and the delay function repeatedly reads it. Good to know the ISR can't activate "halfway through" a read or something. Does the reference manual say somewhere that reads/writes are atomic for uint32_t? (I'm using a Nucleo F411RE)
2023-04-24T23:19:20 < zyp> 32-bit reads is kinda inherent with it being a 32-bit cpu :)
2023-04-24T23:19:31 < begriffs> Gotcha
2023-04-24T23:19:33 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2023-04-24T23:20:54 < zyp> in assembly the compiler will emit a single ldr instruction to read the value, and then the ISR will either execute before or after that instruction
2023-04-24T23:49:25 < begriffs> zyp I found a SO answer that provides more info about it https://stackoverflow.com/a/52785864  It helps me know which reference material to consult as well.
--- Day changed ti huhti 25 2023
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2023-04-25T00:18:30 < qyx> and now, ti.com wins the price of the best product search
2023-04-25T00:18:55 < qyx> it is modified again, fast, concise, relatively usable
2023-04-25T00:19:26 < qyx> some details are missing, feature search is misleading (is it OR/AND/whatever?)
2023-04-25T00:19:38 < qyx> but otherwise pretty good
2023-04-25T00:24:50 < qyx> TPS43061, here we go
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2023-04-25T00:56:20 < catphish> i can't get any code running on this G4 to do anything :'( either my attempts to blink a gpio are bad or it's just plain not booting my code
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2023-04-25T00:56:35 < catphish> need to work out how to connect that debugger i guess
2023-04-25T01:16:55 < qyx> what's wrong with G4, it works
2023-04-25T01:17:05 < qyx> with libopencm3 at least
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2023-04-25T01:18:33 < zyp> catphish, I'm almost tempted to talk you into trying laks
2023-04-25T01:19:13 < catphish> i was considering it, but i'm not sure why i'd want it any more than any other framework :)
2023-04-25T01:19:33 < catphish> though right now i'd ba happy if my chip would execure anything :(
2023-04-25T01:19:50 < zyp> it's designed precisely to solve the sort of tedious boilerplate bullshit you're not enjoying
2023-04-25T01:20:17 < zyp> on the other hand, if I talked you into using it, I'd have to support you :)
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2023-04-25T01:23:17 < catphish> lol
2023-04-25T01:23:36 < catphish> gdb says my code is running, so i guess i just didn't do the magic clock dance properly
2023-04-25T01:24:09 < catphish> all i'm doing is enabling GPIOB and tyring to set an output
2023-04-25T01:25:44 < qyx> you don't hve to touch the clocks
2023-04-25T01:26:13 < qyx> did you change the pin mode to output?
2023-04-25T01:26:24 < qyx> (besides setting its value of course)
2023-04-25T01:28:53 < catphish> yes, i do 3 things, enable the RCC_AHB2ENR_GPIOBEN, set the pin MODER, and then set a value
2023-04-25T01:29:05 < catphish> that's it
2023-04-25T01:33:12 < qyx> and where is your code running according to gdb?
2023-04-25T01:33:38 < qyx> are you at a known point in your code?
2023-04-25T01:33:45 < catphish> my code ends in an infinite loop that sets GPIOB->ODR = 0
2023-04-25T01:33:45 < qyx> while (1) or whatever
2023-04-25T01:33:48 < catphish> yeah
2023-04-25T01:38:44 < catphish> oh, i have an idea of what's going on here, it works when it's being debugged, i think there's some funny business with with the debugger and the reset line
2023-04-25T01:45:34 < zyp> usually internal pullup on reset is enough to avoid funny business
2023-04-25T01:52:30 < catphish> well whatever it was, it's solved itself now
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2023-04-25T10:48:27 < Laurence_b> lolll libtard dad just rang me drunk
2023-04-25T10:48:58 < Laurence_b> >reee britbongistan is a shithole filled with illegal immigrants
2023-04-25T10:49:13 < Laurence_b>  $11.1kms^{-1}$ sides
2023-04-25T10:50:10 < Laurence_b> who could be responsible for this
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2023-04-25T12:59:23 < catphish> seems like all my problems last night were actually the result of a really shit USB UART i has plugged in
2023-04-25T13:00:12 < zyp> hah
2023-04-25T13:01:13 < qyx> I am using nucleos, not saying they are less shitty
2023-04-25T13:01:36 < qyx> 90% of my USB problems are caused by micro-B connectors
2023-04-25T13:04:54 < catphish> i'll order another nice FT232 based cable :)
2023-04-25T13:05:13 < catphish> i was trying to use a pl2303 based one that looks like it cost about 3 cents to make
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2023-04-25T14:09:55 < Steffanx> I like the ftdi cables with rx/tx leds
2023-04-25T14:14:22 < karlp> zyp: how did you handle "overriding" memory sections?
2023-04-25T14:14:47 < karlp> (or did you just cheat and use jinja? it's not built into ld scripts to be overridden is it?)
2023-04-25T14:27:09 < jadew> more Java retardness: if you inline initialize an object, it becomes anonymous...
2023-04-25T14:27:54 < jadew> so new ArrayList<String>() - you get an ArrayList. while new ArrayList<String>() {{ put("value"); }}, creates an anonymous object...
2023-04-25T14:28:16 < jadew> basically the resulting object is of an anonymous class
2023-04-25T14:28:25 < jadew> how fucking stupid is that?
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2023-04-25T14:30:31 < jadew> I swear, the people who were involved with the development of java were complete fucktards
2023-04-25T14:31:04 < jadew> like... even if that was some form of limitation for whatever reason, you still wouldn't allow it into the language, you would fix the fucking limitation
2023-04-25T14:31:28 < jpa-> that's just abusing the anonymous class expression for initializing.. sure, it works, but not very clean in first place
2023-04-25T14:32:07 < jadew> which part of that is anonymous?
2023-04-25T14:32:30 < jadew> as far as I can tell, I'm calling a member function put() - can you do that on an anonymous class?
2023-04-25T14:32:32 < jpa-> the "new Interface(){ .. code .. }" syntax creates anonymous class
2023-04-25T14:32:42 < jadew> yeah, that's my point, it's fucking retarded
2023-04-25T14:32:55 < jpa-> you are declaring an anonymous class that has constructor that calls add()
2023-04-25T14:33:14 < jpa-> the stupid part is lack of nice initializer for ArrayList.. like List.of("foo", "bar", "baz");  for normal List
2023-04-25T14:33:35 < jpa-> the part where you use anonymous class syntax and are then surprised that you get anonymous class is just your sillyness
2023-04-25T14:34:08 < jadew> ok, I get it now
2023-04-25T14:34:18 < jadew> thanks for explaining
2023-04-25T14:34:54 < jadew> but why would it create an anonymous class?
2023-04-25T14:35:15 < jadew> how can you extend that, to result in anything but an ArrayList?
2023-04-25T14:35:16 < jpa-> because it is the syntax of anonymous class.. java has similar silly way of overloading syntax elements like C++ does
2023-04-25T14:35:21 < jadew> I get that
2023-04-25T14:35:40 < jadew> but where would you declare something extra in that anonymous class
2023-04-25T14:36:29 < jadew> to me it looks like a syntax that just instantiates that object and initializes it with whatever is in the nested brackets - can I declare anything extra on this object to make it different from ArrayList?
2023-04-25T14:36:34 < jpa-> think of it like     class AnonymousList extends ArrayList<String> { public AnonymousList { put("value"); } }
2023-04-25T14:36:42 < jadew> I get that
2023-04-25T14:36:46 < jadew> BUT
2023-04-25T14:36:51 < jadew> the syntax I presented is not that
2023-04-25T14:37:05 < jadew> it provides no way of creating anything different from an ArrayList
2023-04-25T14:37:43 < jadew> hence, it can't be used for anything else than inline initialization of the given class
2023-04-25T14:38:09 < jadew> I think the abuse is on their side, when they provided this syntax as a piggy back on the anonymous shit
2023-04-25T14:38:34 < jpa-> well, you would do e.g.   new ArrayList<string>() { public void someOtherMethodName() { do something; } }
2023-04-25T14:38:49 < jadew> right, but that's different' from what I provided, isn't it?
2023-04-25T14:38:55 < jpa-> but it is common enough to override the constructor that omitting the name means "put this inside constructor"
2023-04-25T14:39:03 < jadew> in my example you can't override, can't add methods, etc
2023-04-25T14:39:23 < jadew> well, that's the retarded part then
2023-04-25T14:39:36 < jadew> it is common, but if you allow for that, why make it anonymous?
2023-04-25T14:39:55 < jadew> if you truly wanted an anonymous class you could use the standard syntax
2023-04-25T14:40:03 < jadew> that actually makes sense
2023-04-25T14:41:00 < jpa-> i guess that is a good question, it could just execute whatever the constructor does
2023-04-25T14:41:44 < jpa-> it would extend beyond syntactic sugar then, though; or otherwise be limited to calling public methods
2023-04-25T14:42:04 < jadew> yes, which would be fine
2023-04-25T14:43:08 < jpa-> it kind of makes sense as it is just a combination of two independent features, anonymous classes and instance initializer blocks; you can have {} alone in a normal class definition also
2023-04-25T14:44:13 < jadew> you mean you can have class Foo extends Bar {{}}?
2023-04-25T14:44:36 < jpa-> yes, or just class Foo { { do initialization stuff}  void NormalMethod() { ... } }
2023-04-25T14:44:48 < jadew> yeah, that's fucking stupid
2023-04-25T14:44:59 < jpa-> having a shorthand for initializers is stupid?
2023-04-25T14:45:09 < jadew> in a class declaration, for sure
2023-04-25T14:45:20 < jadew> that's a shorthand for the constructor
2023-04-25T14:45:52 < jpa-> it's not exactly equivalent, as you can have multiple initializer blocks and they are independent from constructors, which take arguments
2023-04-25T14:46:10 < jadew> come on... it's a retarded feature
2023-04-25T14:46:28 < jadew> doesn't help with anything
2023-04-25T14:46:52 < jadew> on one hand they go super verbose, and on others they shorten shit that shouldn't be shortened
2023-04-25T14:46:56 < jpa-> you call stuff retarded so easily that i don't put much weight on your statements anymore, but i admit i haven't used it myself so don't know if it is useful
2023-04-25T14:48:21 < jadew> it only seems that way because I don't praise the stuff I like, which isn't much when it comes to Java
2023-04-25T14:50:34 < qyx> zyp: do you have any long term test data of the TDK accel?
2023-04-25T14:51:25 < qyx> I have about 40 days so far and I managed to make X behave after some quadratic temp compensation but Y systematically and more-or-less monotonically drifts (after temp comp)
2023-04-25T14:52:11 < qyx> I have not yet excluded erroneous mounting of the enclosure
2023-04-25T15:02:15 < qyx> I would forbid placing components off grid by law
2023-04-25T15:14:44 < zyp> no, I didn't do the testing or analysis, I just did the prototype build and firmware adaption
2023-04-25T15:15:48 < zyp> and we switched to ADXL350 anyway, currently doing the final sanity checks of the design before we ship it off
2023-04-25T15:16:37 < karlp> begriffs: try https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb instead of your gdb init, it's much more complete, but the same general idea.
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2023-04-25T16:47:57 < begriffs> Thanks karlp, your vecstate function output will be way easier to read
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2023-04-25T17:26:19 < karlp> not mine, I just curate :)
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2023-04-25T17:54:22 < fenugrec> englishman, are you sad there will be no highway lanes in the tunnel
2023-04-25T17:54:38 < englishman> lol
2023-04-25T17:54:45 < englishman> i just assumed the project is dead
2023-04-25T17:55:02 < fenugrec> some lady wants the south shore to be "compensated" for the cancellation, wtf
2023-04-25T17:55:03 < englishman> it served it purpose (to win elections - which it did twice)
2023-04-25T17:55:06 < englishman> so now it can be killed
2023-04-25T17:55:11 < fenugrec> heh
2023-04-25T17:57:25 < englishman> fen
2023-04-25T17:57:27 < englishman> did you see farador
2023-04-25T17:58:14 < fenugrec> no, as a 'back in my day' curmudgeon , I'm worried it will fall tragically short of any reasonable expectations
2023-04-25T17:58:21 < englishman> i saw it sunday
2023-04-25T17:58:25 < englishman> it's super good
2023-04-25T17:58:41 < englishman> highly recommended
2023-04-25T17:58:48 < fenugrec> but had you seen the short before hearing about the movie ?
2023-04-25T17:58:58 < englishman> yes
2023-04-25T17:59:02 < englishman> oh
2023-04-25T17:59:06 < fenugrec> hm
2023-04-25T17:59:07 < englishman> no, not before hearing about it
2023-04-25T17:59:13 < fenugrec> ok
2023-04-25T17:59:17 < englishman> but before seeing it
2023-04-25T17:59:34 < englishman> i have seen a lot of phylactère cola tho
2023-04-25T17:59:50 < fenugrec> omg a true connoisseur
2023-04-25T17:59:54 < englishman> mdr
2023-04-25T18:00:16 < fenugrec> that increases the value of your opinion on the movie. I have "high standards" you see
2023-04-25T18:00:34 < englishman> it was worth the $7. lol'd muchly
2023-04-25T18:00:50 < fenugrec> i thought moviefilms were 15$ in theaters now
2023-04-25T18:00:53 < englishman> t'as tué mon bonhomme!!!!
2023-04-25T18:01:08 < fenugrec> aye, dice rolls and sodomy
2023-04-25T18:21:05 < karlp> did you see "day shift" though?
2023-04-25T18:25:28 < fenugrec> never heard of it
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--- Day changed ke huhti 26 2023
2023-04-26T00:16:31 < karlp> it features snoop dog with a minigun, which makes it all worthwhile.
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2023-04-26T00:23:31 < nomorekaki> ?
2023-04-26T00:23:54 < nomorekaki> don't say it I remember it now
2023-04-26T00:25:42 < nomorekaki> vampire thing
2023-04-26T00:26:03 < nomorekaki> day shift
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2023-04-26T00:29:51 < karlp> yup
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2023-04-26T01:44:40 < Laurence_b> >try to sign up for GMX in Germany, Austria or Switzerland
2023-04-26T01:44:53 < Laurence_b> >have to provide verified address and mobile number
2023-04-26T01:45:00 < Laurence_b> enjoy ur freedoms euros
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2023-04-26T02:02:29 < karlp> thanks for that valuable insight, ever helpful.
2023-04-26T02:03:27 < karlp> Laurence_b: oh, hey, did you see this? https://i.imgur.com/eqNYHZ3.png
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2023-04-26T11:37:30 < jadew> what do you guys know about these? https://www.arterychip.com/download/DS_AT32F407_EN_V2.00.pdf
2023-04-26T11:37:46 < jadew> they seem to be pin compatible with the STM32F407
2023-04-26T11:38:00 < jadew> are they clones?
2023-04-26T11:38:24 < jbo> anybody with yocto experiences here?
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2023-04-26T12:13:56 < zyp> jadew, pretty much
2023-04-26T12:13:58 < zyp> jbo, yes
2023-04-26T12:15:58 < jadew> zyp, but you can't use the same firmware, can you?
2023-04-26T12:16:28 < jbo> zyp, I'm trying to figure out how I can customize an image recipe that microchip provides. As I understand by reading the documentation, all I have to do is creating a new layer, adding that layer and inside that layer I create a .bbappend file with the same name as the one I want to modify. Is that correct?
2023-04-26T12:18:12 < zyp> jadew, actually I think it's a f107 clone, not f407
2023-04-26T12:18:25 < zyp> i.e. it has f1 style peripherals, but a m4 cpu
2023-04-26T12:18:48 < zyp> jbo, that'll probably work, yes
2023-04-26T12:20:51 < jbo> zyp, thanks. Also, is there a way to use ccache or something?
2023-04-26T12:21:39 < zyp> idk, I usually just start it and go do something else for a few hours
2023-04-26T12:21:53 < zyp> https://xkcd.com/303/
2023-04-26T12:22:09 < jbo> hah
2023-04-26T12:22:25 < jadew> that only works for c++
2023-04-26T12:22:34 < jadew> most other stuff compiles quite fast
2023-04-26T12:22:35 < zyp> it does incremental builds, so once you've built it once and are just making changes to packages, rebuilds are fairly quick
2023-04-26T12:23:15 < zyp> jadew, yocto pulls down sources and builds an entire linux system from scratch
2023-04-26T12:23:39 < jadew> how long does that take?
2023-04-26T12:23:40 < zyp> each single file compiles quite fast, but it adds up to a lot of time
2023-04-26T12:23:49 < zyp> how long is a rope?
2023-04-26T12:24:04 < zyp> no, really, it depends on your build machine
2023-04-26T12:24:56 < zyp> for a first time build on a reasonably modern machine, I'd expect a few hours, of which a fair amount is probably spent downloading and unpacking stuff
2023-04-26T12:25:49 < jpa-> on ramdisk and with lots of cores it can go pretty fast, but depends on number of packages also of course
2023-04-26T12:26:07 < jadew> yeah, that's pretty bad. I remember 10 years ago or so, boost would take like 2 hours to compile on my machine - luckily I didn't have to compile often
2023-04-26T12:26:16 < jadew> now it's done in about half an hour
2023-04-26T12:26:56 < zyp> one of my yocto trees on this machine is 112G
2023-04-26T12:27:45 < zyp> with a downloads dir of 17G and a build dir of 94G
2023-04-26T12:28:33 < zyp> entire tree contains 10670938 files
2023-04-26T12:31:41 < jadew> what's the idea behind yocto? it only builds in the drivers and all the necessary stuff for the platform?
2023-04-26T12:32:20 < jpa-> easy setup of cross compilation + package manager at build time, instead of runtime
2023-04-26T12:36:38 < zyp> yocto/openembedded gives you a fully custom built linux system from a set of recipes
2023-04-26T12:38:05 < jadew> what sizes are we talking about? (don't give me the rope thing again please)
2023-04-26T12:38:09 < zyp> recipes are divided into layers, to make it easy to combine general software recipes, chip specific recipes from the chip vendor, board specific recipes from the board vendor, application specific recipes and so on
2023-04-26T12:38:22 < jadew> like for a basic system with ethernet and some other small services
2023-04-26T12:38:26 < zyp> what do you mean sizes?
2023-04-26T12:38:36 < jadew> like binary size - you end up with a blob, no?
2023-04-26T12:39:22 < zyp> I usually build a flash/sdcard image, so it ends up as big as I tell it my flash/sdcard is
2023-04-26T12:41:53 < jadew> was wondering what the minimum requirements were
2023-04-26T12:42:07 < jpa-> a modern linux kernel is a few megabytes, and basic libs + busybox maybe 2 MB on top of that; yocto itself doesn't force you to include more packages than you need
2023-04-26T12:42:26 < zyp> what he said
2023-04-26T12:43:42 < jadew> could be interesting to get a custom image for my wifi router
2023-04-26T12:45:02 < zyp> the stuff I've been working on runs from emmc or flash with some gigs of storage so I haven't bothered trying to size optimize it, looks like the actual system consumes a couple hundred gigs
2023-04-26T12:45:38 < jadew> you mean mb?
2023-04-26T12:46:08 < zyp> sorry, yes, a couple hundred megs
2023-04-26T12:48:47 < zyp> looking at one project here, I'm getting an .ext4 image that's 483MB large, but I'm also getting a .mender update file that's 168MB
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2023-04-26T12:50:51 < zyp> looking inside the ext4 filesystem, usr/lib/python3.7 alone consumes 83MB
2023-04-26T12:54:57 < zyp> anyway, this is a system that contains a bunch of convenience packages to make it comfortable to develop on, so it's got both vim and a full compiler toolchain to build stuff locally
2023-04-26T12:55:21 < zyp> a stripped down system to just run an application can be much smaller
2023-04-26T12:55:40 < jadew> ah, was wondering what kind of application you're working on that it requires so much stuff
2023-04-26T13:05:45 < zyp> not really about what it requires, just that it haven't been worthwhile to remove what it doesn't
2023-04-26T13:08:44 < karlp> jadew: openwrt is a different direction, but similar ideas, build a kernel+packages with root file system, they've stopped supporting 4MB flash recently, but still can fit lots into 8MB
2023-04-26T13:12:39 < jadew> karlp, yeah, that's my problem, my router only has 4 MB of flash
2023-04-26T13:12:53 < jadew> and I can't get rid of the stupid one-mesh crap
2023-04-26T13:13:17 < jadew> which I wouldn't mind if it would turn itself off with the wifi radio, but it doesn't
2023-04-26T13:17:48 < qyx> just replace the nor flash
2023-04-26T13:18:09 < qyx> it is soic8 90% of time
2023-04-26T13:18:50 < jadew> didn't realize that's an option, I'll look into it
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2023-04-26T13:19:34 < qyx> you may have some issues if you use one with unknown ID
2023-04-26T13:25:12 < jadew> you might be right: https://fpg.uz/uploads/product/file4467.jpg
2023-04-26T13:25:40 < jadew> I can't find info on that chip tho, google yields nothing for the info on the first two rows
2023-04-26T13:27:25 < jadew> I wonder if they characterized that solder-blob transition and figured out that's the best length the center conductor should have outside of the outer one
2023-04-26T13:28:25 < karlp> even with yocto you'll struggle to get a useful image with 4MB.
2023-04-26T13:28:33 < karlp> what's the goal with "new firmware" anyway?
2023-04-26T13:28:47 < jadew> kill one-mesh
2023-04-26T13:28:49 < karlp> replacing spi nor is a classic trick for openwrt people too.
2023-04-26T13:29:11 < karlp> is that 802.11s with a different name or what?
2023-04-26T13:29:45 < jadew> I don't know what 802.11s is, but it's a thing where you switch between APs seamlessly
2023-04-26T13:29:53 < jadew> that's what TP-Link calls this technology
2023-04-26T13:30:20 < karlp> so. I hve a pile of php.  what's the msot complicated way I can deploy this...  time to learn more docker, or more k8s?
2023-04-26T13:31:32 < qyx> copying them is too easy?
2023-04-26T13:31:41 < jadew> was going to suggest that...
2023-04-26T13:31:53 < karlp> yeah, as if I'd just drop them into the existing php+nginx?!
2023-04-26T13:31:59 < jadew> unless you worry about its quality, I would just copy them to the server
2023-04-26T13:32:23 < karlp> was going to use this as a learning experience, but yes, it would absolutely be the simplest
2023-04-26T13:32:26 < qyx> jadew: yeah replace that 25something32 with 25something256 or so
2023-04-26T13:32:34 < karlp> I asked what the most complicated way was :)
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2023-04-26T13:34:10 < jadew> go for docker then, but then you'd have to proxy the requests from the main server to the container
2023-04-26T13:35:01 < jadew> unless that was your only http server
2023-04-26T13:36:11 < jadew> generally speaking, if it's not based on some open-source all-in-one solution, it should be fairly unhackable, unless you do silly things yourself
2023-04-26T13:36:18 < jadew> so you could deploy it directly on the server
2023-04-26T13:36:19 < karlp> lol
2023-04-26T13:37:08 < jadew> the only type of stuff that gets hacked these days are wordpress type of things
2023-04-26T13:37:51 < jadew> SQL injection can also be a problem if you're not careful with your queries, but other than that, there's not much to worry about
2023-04-26T13:46:05 < zyp> karlp, k8s is infrastructure around containers, doesn't really have much to do with what goes into the container
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2023-04-26T13:50:51 < zyp> making a docker image is easy, it's typically just a matter of writing a docker file that says «grab this template image, copy these files into it» and running docker build
2023-04-26T13:52:17 < zyp> and then you've got an image of your application that you can run in however manner you like, anywhere from standalone with just a port forwarded into it, to a full k8s cluster with a load balancer in front of redundant instances
2023-04-26T13:56:25 < zyp> e.g. my store frontend dockerfile looks like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/B1yJL
2023-04-26T14:00:20 < jadew> IMO, containeralization (if it's a word) is usually counter productive
2023-04-26T14:00:42 < jadew> it makes sense when you want to quickly install something you don't want to know anything about tho
2023-04-26T14:01:00 < jadew> kind of like a server app
2023-04-26T14:01:23 < jadew> but if you put anything into production, you're better off with just hosting things normally
2023-04-26T14:01:44 < jadew> especially if you have multiple services that might communicate in some way with each other
2023-04-26T14:01:50 < karlp> yeah, I'm more looking at the best way of putting the docker-compose.yaml files into podman, and which ways to do it nicely. but was looking at a basic dockerfile extension with the site like that.
2023-04-26T14:02:30 < karlp> podman has internal support for running k8s files, but only an external tool for compose, and because of the rootless networking, it's not quite just "podman-compose docker-compose.file"
2023-04-26T14:02:40 < karlp> just mumbling a little bit and learning some things
2023-04-26T14:03:13 < karlp> describing a fairly simple serviecs setup in k8s files sounds just painful though, so goign to skip that
2023-04-26T14:04:32 < zyp> forget about k8s, it's for managing huge clusters distributed across a bunch of servers
2023-04-26T14:05:53 < zyp> jadew, I disagree, particularly about the multiple services bit
2023-04-26T14:06:46 < jadew> zyp, it's more difficult to implement communication between services if they're enclosed in their individual containers
2023-04-26T14:06:59 < zyp> containers are a good way to avoid having to deal with dependency issues, so putting each service into its own container means everything got all the dependencies they need without any risk of conflict between them
2023-04-26T14:07:56 < jadew> right, but my point is that it's better to solve that issue, than deal with communication between services
2023-04-26T14:08:30 < zyp> what's the problem with communication between services?
2023-04-26T14:09:15 < jadew> it's much less resource intensive to directly calling an API by say... loading the file provided as the entry point and calling some functions, rather than making a HTTPS call or opening a socket to do IPC over the network
2023-04-26T14:09:46 < jadew> when you're serving lots of users, it matters
2023-04-26T14:10:19 < jadew> it could make the difference between needing a new 4-10k/year server at x number of users or at x/2 number of users
2023-04-26T14:10:49 < zyp> you mean unix sockets vs tcp sockets?
2023-04-26T14:11:01 < jadew> you don't even need unix sockets for that
2023-04-26T14:11:18 < jadew> for example if you have two services written in PHP, on the same server
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2023-04-26T14:11:42 < jadew> one could perform actions in the other, by including some file and calling some functions that are exposed specifically for the purpose
2023-04-26T14:11:59 < jadew> that saves one HTTP request usually, because otherwise that's how it would most likely be done
2023-04-26T14:12:04 < zyp> yeah?
2023-04-26T14:12:44 < jadew> so in one case you have one user, one HTTP request, in the other you have one user, several 2 ore more HTTP requests going on on the same server
2023-04-26T14:12:51 < jadew> for the same underlying request
2023-04-26T14:13:45 < zyp> I don't see any reason you couldn't do that with containers
2023-04-26T14:14:16 < jadew> well, if one service is in one container, and the other one in another, how would I call doStuff() from the other service?
2023-04-26T14:15:06 < zyp> my store backend runs an API server in one container and a background worker in another container, but they run from the same image, and therefore both have access to the entire codebase
2023-04-26T14:15:29 < zyp> they don't need to talk to each other at all, they both just talk to the database service and so on
2023-04-26T14:15:36 < jadew> right, so then there's no dependency issue, and no reason to have them in a container to begin with
2023-04-26T14:16:01 < zyp> sure there is, they're only a portion of the whole system
2023-04-26T14:16:42 < jadew> I've seen your site tho, it's not that complex :)
2023-04-26T14:17:13 < zyp> it's split across 7 containers :)
2023-04-26T14:17:20 < jadew> haha
2023-04-26T14:17:44 < jadew> I'm not saying it's bad btw, and it's definitely a good exercise
2023-04-26T14:19:05 < karlp> show me the rest of the doccker compose then, not just your single "storefront -> webroot" example :)
2023-04-26T14:19:13 < zyp> two containers runs postgres and redis, respectively, those are off the shelf container images that just packs the respective service along with the dependencies it needs
2023-04-26T14:25:10 < jadew> zyp, does postgres not have memory tables?
2023-04-26T14:25:46 < jadew> or maybe they're not persistent?
2023-04-26T14:25:50 < zyp> karlp, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/W0UCo
2023-04-26T14:26:17 < zyp> it's not compose, it's ansible, but should be fairly similar
2023-04-26T14:27:10 < jadew> you forgot a password in there
2023-04-26T14:27:49 < jadew>  /trolling
2023-04-26T14:28:56 < karlp> what's saleor like? I was looking at opencart and odoo
2023-04-26T14:29:43 < zyp> I didn't make the backend, so I don't really care or not whether it could have done without redis
2023-04-26T14:29:54 < jadew> ah
2023-04-26T14:30:03 < zyp> all I care about is that it wants a redis instances and it only takes me a few lines of declaration to spin up one
2023-04-26T14:32:09 < zyp> karlp, I like the API oriented architecture, the way I can do custom functionality without having to hack on the code itself
2023-04-26T14:34:14 < zyp> when I stop being lazy, I'm planning to make a fulfillment dashboard as well, to streamline the process of packing an order and creating a DHL label
2023-04-26T14:35:04 < zyp> as well as automating filing every transaction in my accounting system
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2023-04-26T14:35:51 < jadew> I have mine made to create all the necessary paperwork for exports and all that crap
2023-04-26T14:36:35 < jadew> it's very useful and the time you waste making it, you get back in how much you save handling all of that paperwork
2023-04-26T14:38:25 < zyp> yeah, my previous store system was pretty much a shipping label with CN22 generator with an ordering form bolted onto it :p
2023-04-26T14:39:20 < zyp> that became obsolete when the postal system started requiring digital customs filing a few years ago
2023-04-26T14:39:53 < zyp> and there weren't really anything else of value in that thing, so I dropped it and built a new store on saleor
2023-04-26T14:40:30 < zyp> so far saleor has the flexibility I need, I just need to take the time to actually make use of it :)
2023-04-26T14:53:48 < karlp> meh, permissions on mounted volumes to containers.  this doesn't feel like fun at all right now :)
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2023-04-26T15:53:41 < fenugrec> containers are only fun once you're done configuring them and can quickly forget about the ordeal
2023-04-26T15:54:31 < fenugrec> and you go "hey, at least I didn't have to compile PHP7.4.2.3.3..1.2. and a bunch of other esoteric deps that precariously hold together"
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2023-04-26T16:13:25 < qyx> zyp: huh postgres and redis as containers? why even
2023-04-26T16:16:19 < qyx> for complex things, yeah, but a single db install is not in this category
2023-04-26T16:37:30 < karlp> sure it is.
2023-04-26T16:40:55 < zyp> why not? why would I bother installing and configuring it manually separately when I can just put a few lines in a declarative spec of the full system I want?
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2023-04-26T16:42:04 < zyp> the yaml file I posted earlier downloads, installs and configures everything
2023-04-26T16:43:38 < zyp> very convenient during development, because I can just spin up the whole system from one config, abuse it, throw it away and easily start over and do it all again
2023-04-26T16:46:07 < zyp> if I want to upgrade any part of this, I just go edit the image version in the spec and run ansible again, and it'll figure out where the running system doesn't match the spec, pull new images where necessary and recreate those containers
2023-04-26T16:51:18 < qyx> I understand all this but I see no reason for going the docker way for a single instance, single install of a distribution supported standard service which postgres is
2023-04-26T16:51:32 < karlp> different versions
2023-04-26T16:51:50 < qyx> I am saying single instance of a distrib supported service
2023-04-26T16:51:52 < karlp> I can run a podman/docker command, get a mysql 4,5,6,7,8,9 whatever, run a test, turn it off again.
2023-04-26T16:52:22 < karlp> still, it lets you have a db _with_ the thing that needs it, instead of seaprately being a DBA, because fuck that.
2023-04-26T16:53:45 < qyx> this is all going backwards the windows style, I was verysad when I first encountered appimage
2023-04-26T16:54:10 < qyx> I was like frightened pikachu
2023-04-26T16:55:10 < zyp> I fail to understand what the benefit of *not* using a container would be here?
2023-04-26T16:55:48 < jpa-> i don't like containers that much, but appimages are great for user applications
2023-04-26T16:56:04 < qyx> the simplicity
2023-04-26T16:56:13 < zyp> what simplicity?
2023-04-26T16:56:29 < qyx> apt install postgres does everything you need with reasonable default config
2023-04-26T16:57:02 < qyx> I am still talking about small simple apps
2023-04-26T16:57:21 < qyx> and not cloud whatever load balanced installs
2023-04-26T16:57:41 < zyp> also, you're saying «single instance», which isn't really true
2023-04-26T16:58:42 < zyp> I had a test instance of the whole store running at home before I deployed the production instance
2023-04-26T17:01:03 < zyp> the equivalent of «apt install postgres» would be «docker run postgres», which also does everything you need with reasonable default config
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2023-04-26T17:14:37 < ventYl> and then sewer pipe breaks and shitload of unmaintained, or poorly maintained containers spills having references to dozens of outdated, filthy and buggy versions of software
2023-04-26T17:14:52 < karlp> nothing new with that though
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2023-04-26T17:15:18 < ventYl> containers are the worst version of dependency hell, because you can stitch some specific version of tool in there and you are not forced to play nicely and do version-agnostic interfaces
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2023-04-26T17:16:41 < begriffs> containers are where you take some fragile "works on my machine" crap and then ship it off with the whole machine, rather than creating more graceful and portable systems
2023-04-26T17:17:08 < zyp> it's usable for that too, yes
2023-04-26T17:18:23 < jbo> zyp, qyx does anybody know whether I can lower the CPU frequency of a SAMA5D27 or whether frequency scaling is supported on those?
2023-04-26T17:18:26 < zyp> at $oldjob, instead of teaching coworker to set up the whole build toolchain, I stuck it in a container
2023-04-26T17:18:31  * begriffs stands on soapbox proudly then quietly climbs down and looks at his feet
2023-04-26T17:19:35 < zyp> the thing about dependency hell is that it's not uncommon to want/need to run shitty software
2023-04-26T17:20:09 < ventYl> at $oldjob I have created toolkit which obtain / unpacks and configures build toolchain automagically on host machine without disturbing environment. it was kind of lean container, yet without containers.
2023-04-26T17:20:29 < ventYl> it turned out that containers are mostly redundant there
2023-04-26T17:21:03 < zyp> I don't want the responsibility of having to fix other people's shitty software, I just want shit to work with minimal effort
2023-04-26T17:21:36 < ventYl> that excuse can work in development environment. shipping shitty broken code to the production will soon be punishable
2023-04-26T17:21:49 < zyp> I agree
2023-04-26T17:23:18 < zyp> I'm just arguing that there's benefits to being able to stuff shit in a container, I'm not saying that everything stuffed in a container is shit
2023-04-26T17:25:49 < ventYl> I'm arguing that once you ship something in container, the effort to maintain software multiplies
2023-04-26T17:27:08 < zyp> for who?
2023-04-26T17:27:17 < karlp> it just becomes an installation method.
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2023-04-26T17:28:17 < ventYl> basically for everyone, the one who compiles containers has to have SWBOM of every container he maintains and handle CVEs, users have to possibly update multiple containers to address single CVE
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2023-04-26T17:33:32 < karlp> podman run -p 8080:80 -d --sysctl net.ipv4.ip_unprivileged_port_start=0 --userns=keep-id -v ./opencart-4.0.2.1/upload:/var/www/html ocart-apache-php:latest
2023-04-26T17:33:36 < karlp> finally working.
2023-04-26T17:33:44 < karlp> fucking whack
2023-04-26T17:50:02 < BrainDamage> what really bothers me is the dev env that are shipped as docker containers, it's no different than "just use this whole distro to compile my software"
2023-04-26T17:50:17 < fenugrec> heh
2023-04-26T17:50:56 < fenugrec> "it was hard enough even enough to stack this pile of crap high enough without toppling over, just take this solidified version, don't touch anything, and don't even try to assemble the same on your own"
2023-04-26T17:52:11 < zyp> pretty much
2023-04-26T17:53:41 < zyp> the coworker I gave it to was the simulink guy, he needed to be able to export some C shit from simulink, stick it into my infrastructure code and build it together
2023-04-26T17:54:42 < zyp> I didn't trust him to figure it out if anything broke, and I were going to Japan for a month, so I made damn sure that it wouldn't break
2023-04-26T18:00:50 < mawk> karlp why don't they internally run at port 8080 for instance 
2023-04-26T18:01:11 < ventYl> fenugrec: in the old company, the solution was to put almost everything into version control. pretty much everything except of compiler and two tools which had to be installed into windows and configured for licenses was commited into version control along the source code.
2023-04-26T18:01:49 < ventYl> we had maybe 5 megabytes worth of source code, yet our HEAD was 8GB large
2023-04-26T18:02:44 < ventYl> people were constantly complaining that version control system times out while checking out, because they put the VCS server on the shittiest connection possible to obtain in western germany
2023-04-26T18:03:14 < karlp> mawk: apparently historical reasons :) and now they don't want to change it
2023-04-26T18:03:40 < josuah> hysterical raisins
2023-04-26T18:17:10 < fenugrec> ventYl, heh, that's just 1 step short of full filesystem versioning/imaging
2023-04-26T18:23:08 < ventYl> fenugrec: they had virtual machines which served the purpose of imaging the rest
2023-04-26T18:27:07 < fenugrec> always fun when you 'cat' the wrong file and then mess up the command prompt : " ─@⎼▒␋⎽␋┼ [17G␋] °⎺␌┤⎽⎼␋├␊ ⎽␌▒⎼┌␊├├ $ "
2023-04-26T18:28:37 < fenugrec> TIL : control-J, type 'reset', then control-J again : resets VT state
2023-04-26T18:29:16 < karlp> if you want more magic secrets....[enter][enter]~.
2023-04-26T18:30:07 < fenugrec> what's that
2023-04-26T18:44:51 < karlp> disconnects a stuck ssh session
2023-04-26T18:46:41 < BrainDamage> I only remember ~? which gives a list of keys
2023-04-26T18:46:57 < BrainDamage> there's nice stuff there, like list of port forwards, etc
2023-04-26T18:48:44 < fenugrec> oh yes, I have '^n~.' for SSH fails in my recipe book
2023-04-26T18:50:18 < josuah> I use ~. so often that I wonder if I should get a better nework... ^_^'
2023-04-26T18:51:46 < josuah> wow!  ~C   - open a command line
2023-04-26T18:52:06 < josuah> with that you can request a forward/reverse TCP mirroring to be opened from the existing session
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2023-04-26T19:18:32 < zyp> if I want to run 20-30 signals over a cable between boards, what are convenient connectors to use, preferably with decent availability?
2023-04-26T19:19:14 < zyp> signals are 3.3V, potentially >50MHz, so signal integrity is important
2023-04-26T19:19:34 < zyp> I'm thinking maybe a FFC with ground on every other connector or something like that
2023-04-26T19:19:51 < zyp> any other decent options?
2023-04-26T19:23:41 < fenugrec> oldschool EIDE style ? simple IDC connector with ~ 50% wires being ground IIRC
2023-04-26T19:25:00 < zyp> I'd like something finer pitch than that, I think
2023-04-26T19:26:09 < zyp> this is for the robot arm thing, I'm probably gonna end up with five different boards or so
2023-04-26T19:26:11 < fenugrec> right - just saying that idea has proven reliability (wasn't the fastest 133Mhz or something ?) and IDC is certainly convient for to work with for one-offs. Dunno how fine-pitch IDC you can get
2023-04-26T19:26:41 < zyp> hmm, IIRC I've looked at 0.5mm pitch IDC before
2023-04-26T19:26:46 < fenugrec> eh, robot stuff, maybe need something a bit more robust than idc
2023-04-26T19:27:12 < fenugrec> can't do backplane + edge connectors ?
2023-04-26T19:27:16 < zyp> it's just for board to board in the controller unit
2023-04-26T19:29:07 < zyp> this is the original board: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DudYD.jpeg
2023-04-26T19:29:31 < zyp> it doesn't boot, so I'm making a drop in replacement so I can reuse the power electronics and stuff
2023-04-26T19:31:00 < fenugrec> ah, ah\
2023-04-26T19:31:23 < fenugrec> those nice fanuc epoxy blobs
2023-04-26T19:32:00 < zyp> I'm planning to put the front panel connectors on individual boards on standoffs along with the related circiuitry, partly so I don't have to respin everything to make a change and partly so I can stack two levels
2023-04-26T19:32:56 < zyp> and I figure cables would be more flexible and convenient than working out a way to use board to board connectors
2023-04-26T19:34:10 < zyp> I've reverse engineered what I need from the backplane connector already, and I've got pinout documentation for all the front panel connectors
2023-04-26T19:36:24 < zyp> here's a mechanical fit and backplane test prototype: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/i4x2I.jpeg
2023-04-26T19:36:43 < zyp> which works :)
2023-04-26T19:38:06 < zyp> the only other thing on the backplane is the powersupply, and this board is able to control on/off and gets every power rail in the system
2023-04-26T19:39:42 < zyp> but a board that size is expensive to respin, so I want to keep it simple, just the backplane connector, a bunch of power connectors and standoffs to hold everything else
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2023-04-26T20:36:12 < machinehum> https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva038b/snva038b.pdf
2023-04-26T20:36:34 < machinehum> Why do they assume Vsw is 1.5V on page 4 that's huge isn't it
2023-04-26T20:37:07 < machinehum> That would be a transistor with Rds_on like 1.5R
2023-04-26T20:38:40 < jpa-> seems to match the 1.4V saturation voltage spec on the LM2593HV
2023-04-26T20:38:57 < jpa-> it's an old chip that has BJT instead of MOSFET
2023-04-26T20:39:26 < machinehum> Okay
2023-04-26T20:39:34 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2023-04-26T20:40:11 < jpa-> (and no boost for the base drive voltage)
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2023-04-26T21:00:19 < catphish> silly question time: how do i trigger a one-shot PWM? i want to set the pulse length, then manually start it
2023-04-26T21:00:37 < zyp> timer in one shot mode, not started
2023-04-26T21:00:46 < zyp> then manually start timer
2023-04-26T21:01:02 < zyp> one shot mode means timer automatically stops when it gets to the end
2023-04-26T21:01:25 < catphish> i just don't know how to start it, usually i just enable timers and they start on their own
2023-04-26T21:01:44 < zyp> exactly
2023-04-26T21:01:49 < zyp> enable = start
2023-04-26T21:01:49 < jpa-> enabling is starting
2023-04-26T21:02:00 < catphish> oh, simples
2023-04-26T21:02:05 < catphish> thanks
2023-04-26T21:05:06 < zyp> okay, FFC seems to be the way to go, jlcpcb got a ton of 0.5mm pitch stuff in stock for <$.1
2023-04-26T21:08:00 < zyp> kinda tempted to grab an odd numbered pin one, put grounds on all the odd pins and signals on the even, so that it's symmetric, which would let me freely mix top/bottom and top/top cables
2023-04-26T21:08:19 < zyp> except fucking around with top/top cables is probably not worth it in any case
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2023-04-26T21:15:44 < catphish> that oneshot worked nicely :)
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2023-04-26T21:55:42 < catphish> i take it back, it didn't, the timer is just freerunning, i guess i didn't enable oneshot correctly :)
2023-04-26T21:58:16 < Steffanx> No you didn't.
2023-04-26T22:01:13 < jadew> zyp, maybe make some cross-talk tests on a FFC cable of the size you want to use? I would like to see the results
2023-04-26T22:01:33 < jadew> regarding containers - they're rarely useful on large systems either
2023-04-26T22:01:47 < jadew> I mean... they can be useful if you don't know what you're doing or you just don't give a crap
2023-04-26T22:01:48 < catphish> i'm also doing battle with the fact that if i use I2C2 at all, my UART only receives one byte and despite consuming it, USART_ISR_RXNE never gets set again, i may just need some sleep
2023-04-26T22:02:04 < jadew> but generally speaking, you don't need them, and on large systems you don't want them
2023-04-26T22:03:41 < jadew> catphish, maybe you have to read it first?
2023-04-26T22:04:17 < jadew> just a shot in the dark here, but I remember that being the case in many instances where crap stopped working after the first event
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2023-04-26T22:07:34 < jadew> ah, you said you consumed it
2023-04-26T22:07:35 < jadew> sorry
2023-04-26T22:07:43  * jadew is also tired
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2023-04-26T22:13:09 < catphish> oh, i have an idea what might be wrong, when i'm using I2C my UART is probably overflowing, maybe that stops it
2023-04-26T22:16:42 < catphish> yep, pretty sure that's what happened, i set up UART, go do some stuff with I2C, and by the time i come back and start reading the UART it's overflowed and given up, if i restart the UART after the I2C code then all is good, i will do some proper DMA and interrupts soon so this problem will go away
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2023-04-26T23:52:27 < nomorekaki> early hello
--- Day changed to huhti 27 2023
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2023-04-27T00:11:31 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2023-04-27T00:12:00 < Steffanx> Nomo Rekaki.
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2023-04-27T15:17:01 < karlp> zyp: do you use traefik where some people use nginx for proyxing to various backends? (even though you ahve nginx serving up your angular flat site) 
2023-04-27T15:20:58 < zyp> yes, traefik is configured to automatically pick up backend config from labels on the backend containers
2023-04-27T15:22:25 < zyp> so adding a new subdomain requires no additional config, just spin up a container with the appropriate label and it's ready to serve it
2023-04-27T15:25:27 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qL2BD
2023-04-27T15:48:12 < karlp> right, I've had to go and add lots of dns names before and drop ~identical vhost configs into nginx.  sounds appealing.
2023-04-27T15:48:56 < karlp> I got opencart running finally, poking a bit on how to works, found that I'm running "4.0.2.1" which is.... completely borked and has zero payment methods integrated.
2023-04-27T15:49:06 < karlp> the entire community is sitll on 3.x stable apparently :)
2023-04-27T15:49:27 < karlp> I should work on products isntead of faffing about with things like this anyway I guess...
2023-04-27T15:51:30 < karlp> how is traefik seeing the containers? it talks to docker out of the box?
2023-04-27T15:52:21 < karlp> yeah, nvm, found the right page of the docs
2023-04-27T16:24:22 < zyp> yeah, I've just got wildcard dns set up to point any subdomain that's not explicitly defined towards traefik
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2023-04-27T17:32:20 < karlp> I feel I'm kinda letting myself get distracted by irrelevant minutia though :) 
2023-04-27T17:32:43 < karlp> I had never built my own Containerfile before though, so... I've learnt things...
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2023-04-27T17:36:47 < zyp> I ran a bunch of docker stuff before I ever had a reason to make my own image
2023-04-27T17:47:05 < karlp> heh, opencart 3.x was easier to get setup, now that I knew what I was doign, and it has all the payment integrations. as if you'd use current releases of software, lol
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2023-04-27T17:52:43 < karlp> you were using stripe for payment processing weren't you? 
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2023-04-27T17:56:37 < Steffanx> karlp is in the selling things business now?
2023-04-27T17:59:42 < zyp> yes
2023-04-27T18:01:47 < Steffanx> i see
2023-04-27T18:04:50 < karlp> no. but he's been thinking about it.
2023-04-27T18:09:17 < karlp> was there any particular reason that you picked stripe? or just found some apis that worked out of the box easily?
2023-04-27T18:15:32 < zyp> seems like the most obvious alternative
2023-04-27T18:15:55 < zyp> and it was already supported by saleor
2023-04-27T18:42:52 < ventYl> i recall implementing Stripe
2023-04-27T18:42:59 < ventYl> but I can't recall if it was good experience or not
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2023-04-27T18:53:11 < Steffanx> You're getting old ventYl 
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2023-04-27T19:20:23 < ventYl> hopefully
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2023-04-27T21:04:13 < qyx> karlp: do youplan to sell things on your own?
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2023-04-27T21:26:28 < Laurence_b> pleasantly surprised to taste the perfectly ripe doughnut sweet and juicy Kimmie nectar
2023-04-27T22:02:50 < nomorekaki> are you okay?
2023-04-27T22:03:03 < nomorekaki> is this greenlining?
2023-04-27T22:03:40 < nomorekaki> what is Kimmie?
2023-04-27T22:04:28 < BrainDamage> don't try to make sense of laurenceb's messages, it's a lost case
2023-04-27T22:05:35 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/Laurenceb.txt
2023-04-27T22:12:26 < nomorekaki> I want to know what Laurence_b meant by all he ever said
2023-04-27T22:14:23 < nomorekaki> back to coding>
2023-04-27T22:30:39 < qyx> nomorecoding
2023-04-27T22:37:36 < nomorekaki> just pain
2023-04-27T22:40:08 < nomorekaki> I'm approaching the zone. Playlists is playing Higher state of consiousness and Amphetamine(1994)
2023-04-27T22:42:02 < nomorekaki> cannot stop now.. I need to pee though
2023-04-27T22:42:35 < nomorekaki> time to order a duck from amazon to maximize the zone
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2023-04-27T22:50:01 < nomorekaki> I needed to pee.. where was I in this code..
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--- Day changed pe huhti 28 2023
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2023-04-28T00:14:18 < jadew> https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/woman-shot-clitoris-stray-bullet/
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2023-04-28T01:50:16 < nomorekaki> in python can I raise made up error?
2023-04-28T01:50:48 < nomorekaki> raise kakimadeuperror('Crash Crash Crash')
2023-04-28T01:51:32 < nomorekaki> wait I forgot the rule no.1: make code perfect the first try
2023-04-28T01:54:26 < Steffanx> Extend some exception class and raise it (or whatever you're up to)
2023-04-28T02:01:19 < nomorekaki> nah I made it to do a print to annotation field
2023-04-28T02:01:36 < nomorekaki> 'Decoder bug found!!'
2023-04-28T02:02:07 < nomorekaki> I have done this python code for 5hours or something now
2023-04-28T02:02:10 < nomorekaki> I'm pro now
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2023-04-28T02:21:25 < Steffanx>  /nick moreprokaki 
2023-04-28T02:25:31 < nomorekaki> my nipples are out.. I'm sweating code
2023-04-28T02:25:56 < nomorekaki> I need all the cooling surface now
2023-04-28T02:26:21 < nomorekaki> I'm in a code fever
2023-04-28T02:27:58 < Steffanx> Did mawk pass you some of his magic powder?
2023-04-28T02:29:17 < nomorekaki> no but I'm going to vomit soon
2023-04-28T02:32:46 < Steffanx> Lolwut.. ?
2023-04-28T02:37:14 < Steffanx> I'll call you a doctor nomorekaki 
2023-04-28T02:37:56 < nomorekaki> back to resting hospital?
2023-04-28T02:38:36 < nomorekaki> or as they say back to charging station
2023-04-28T02:39:23 < Steffanx> Psychiatric hospital?
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2023-04-28T02:52:40 < mawk> yes you can raise your own error of course nomorekaki 
2023-04-28T02:52:45 < mawk> just define it beforehand
2023-04-28T02:52:55 < mawk> class Kakierror(Exception): pass
2023-04-28T02:53:01 < mawk> and that's it
2023-04-28T02:57:06 < nomorekaki> mawk: have you ever visited charging station?
2023-04-28T03:01:04 < mawk> for electric vehicle?
2023-04-28T03:01:05 < mawk> no
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2023-04-28T08:03:58 < jadew> if someone drew this 200 years ago, it would be the most well known painting in the world: https://i.redd.it/b8veinc77ewa1.jpg
2023-04-28T08:05:19 < jadew> if you attributed some of the stuff AI generates to a human, he would be considered a genius
2023-04-28T08:09:33 < jadew> if someone drew it, you would look for meaning into it, and wonder what the connection is
2023-04-28T08:10:01 < jadew> the question is weather that meaning and connection still exists in this case
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2023-04-28T12:07:43 < Steffanx> That thumb though 😬
2023-04-28T12:20:47 < karlp> kaki level SMAs: https://twitter.com/SipeedIO/status/1651132098923868162/photo/1
2023-04-28T12:21:39 < karlp> qyx: entertaining the idea, yeah. not really sure there's a market, but can't hurt to see what it takes to run a shop and see how it goes?
2023-04-28T12:26:43 < qyx> karlp: a general procurement or your designs?
2023-04-28T12:28:24 < karlp> was going to start with just a usb hub and a case for it, and then probably go bac kto work :)
2023-04-28T12:28:59 < karlp> I'm poking the power compnay here for when they finally turn on the P1 port on the new meters too, and might try selling an adapter for them for local .is people too.
2023-04-28T12:29:27 < karlp> not at all interested in trying to do import+margin for local market.
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2023-04-28T12:43:14 < qyx> didn't you investigate those maker portals?
2023-04-28T12:43:23 < qyx> tindie, that arturo's thing
2023-04-28T12:46:58 < karlp> yeah, IMO the margins are garbage there,
2023-04-28T12:47:31 < karlp> seeed offers a fulfillment thing to, 
2023-04-28T12:54:32 < karlp> hrm, tindie is only 5%, better than I thought last I looked,
2023-04-28T12:54:41 < karlp> only pays via paypal though.
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2023-04-28T13:33:28 < qyx> I would not do my own shop for worldwide selling
2023-04-28T13:33:36 < qyx> because waste of time imo
2023-04-28T13:38:27 < karlp> indeed, I fully expect that to make it rapidly not actually interesting, but it's a learning experience.
2023-04-28T13:38:38 < karlp> especially from iceland,
2023-04-28T13:39:02 < karlp> the selling isn't hard, but the costs with importing and then exporting again I feel will rapidly erode margins.
2023-04-28T13:39:21 < karlp> also, lol, "iceland? what's that?" stripe doesn't allow me to register.
2023-04-28T13:39:29 < karlp> I was really trying to avoid paying one of the local rapists.
2023-04-28T13:40:11 < karlp> lol, an article abotu stripe in iceland is explicitly written by one of the local rapists.
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2023-04-28T16:51:15 < nomorekaki> python proos
2023-04-28T16:51:42 < nomorekaki> I have deque of a data frame
2023-04-28T16:52:03 < nomorekaki> want to take certain range of bits and convert it into decimal
2023-04-28T16:52:19 < nomorekaki> every item in deque is a bit
2023-04-28T16:52:26 < nomorekaki> left is start bit etc.
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2023-04-28T17:52:42 < nomorekaki> i did it
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2023-04-28T18:57:11 < qyx> I did not
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2023-04-28T21:05:44 < sauce> friday musicspam https://hypnus.bandcamp.com/album/deep-blue-volume-3
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2023-04-28T21:39:04 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRnV2aTVuYmFFQU10ejhtLmpwZw==
2023-04-28T21:46:33 < Laurence_b> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/503/416/e46.jpg
2023-04-28T21:48:13 < Laurence_b> irl orbital sides https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/503/444/567.jpg
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2023-04-28T22:49:00 < nomorekaki> hello early
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2023-04-28T23:37:07 < kakipro> python pros
2023-04-28T23:37:13 < kakipro> how did I add ' to string
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2023-04-28T23:38:34 < kakipro> make "string" instead of 'string' was that the answer?
2023-04-28T23:38:48 < zyp> \'
2023-04-28T23:40:22 < kakipro> thx
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2023-04-28T23:46:11 < fenugrec> kakython
--- Day changed la huhti 29 2023
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2023-04-29T00:37:47 < qyx> what did I just see https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iQiQYbTA0sw&pp=ygUUaGlqIGRlIGxhIGx1bmEgbWV0YWw%3D
2023-04-29T00:37:57 < qyx> kakimusiks
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2023-04-29T01:34:34 < catphish> I2C is a pain to implement aynchronously, a bunch of states to deal with :(
2023-04-29T01:36:50 < zyp> what part?
2023-04-29T01:36:57 < zyp> slave or master?
2023-04-29T01:37:20 < zyp> the new style I2C peripherals are pretty comfortable to work with
2023-04-29T01:37:32 < catphish> master
2023-04-29T01:37:50 < zyp> what part?
2023-04-29T01:38:27 < catphish> the peripheral seems fine, but reading a register from I2C just requires quite a lot of blocking steps
2023-04-29T01:38:49 < zyp> blocking?
2023-04-29T01:39:54 < catphish> what i mean is that do do a single I2C read, you have to do through at least 4 states, waiting for different flags to be set each time
2023-04-29T01:39:54 < zyp> here's i2c_read written for stm32f7: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Ao0FG
2023-04-29T01:40:30 < zyp> this is lazy code so it's just yielding, but it might as well just wait for the interrupt
2023-04-29T01:40:57 < zyp> this should work on anything newer than f7 AFAIK
2023-04-29T01:41:05 < zyp> f4 and older parts are more annoying
2023-04-29T01:41:27 < catphish> interesting, you're skipping the first yield that i do (waitng for TXIS before sending the register address)
2023-04-29T01:41:59 < zyp> again, what part are you on?
2023-04-29T01:42:27 < catphish> and you're also skipping the last (waiting for STOPF)
2023-04-29T01:42:27 < catphish> G4
2023-04-29T01:42:35 < zyp> right
2023-04-29T01:43:18 < catphish> so you only have 2 yields, where i have 4
2023-04-29T01:43:30 < zyp> hmm, I'm not sure if this will break if it's called back to back (trying to start a new transaction before STOPF)
2023-04-29T01:44:02 < zyp> but I don't think waiting for TXIS should be necessary
2023-04-29T01:44:15 < zyp> idk, this works for what I've used it for so far
2023-04-29T01:44:19 < catphish> i'm inclined to think that both might be unnecessary
2023-04-29T01:44:33 < zyp> gonna use this some more soon
2023-04-29T01:44:40 < catphish> the initial TX should always be empty, and the STOPF shouldn't take long, but maybe longer than back to back calls
2023-04-29T01:45:57 < catphish> i don't have multithreading either :)
2023-04-29T01:46:12 < zyp> neither do I, just coroutines
2023-04-29T01:46:14 < catphish> so i will need to set up those yields as callbacks somehow
2023-04-29T01:47:25 < zyp> this sort of stuff is why I'm planning to write some logic to resume a coroutine directly in an ISR
2023-04-29T01:48:51 < zyp> when waiting for an interrupt flag like that, I might as well trigger resume of the coroutine directly from the ISR responding to the flag, rather than having the ISR ask the scheduler to queue the coroutine for execution
2023-04-29T01:49:12 < catphish> i'm not familiar with coroutines, it looks like threads to me
2023-04-29T01:49:33 < zyp> it kinda is
2023-04-29T01:49:59 < zyp> but it's also not :)
2023-04-29T01:50:00 < catphish> the idea of having a function that can yield, then resume on an interrupt would be ideal
2023-04-29T01:50:22 < BrainDamage> catphish: you know how a task scheduler works, right?
2023-04-29T01:50:36 < BrainDamage> coroutines is a task scheduler running in a single thread
2023-04-29T01:50:41 < catphish> it's just cooperative multitasking right?
2023-04-29T01:51:05 < zyp> it's a form of cooperative multitasking
2023-04-29T01:51:08 < catphish> ie a scheduler just runs each thread in turn until it yields?
2023-04-29T01:52:10 < catphish> oh this is c++?
2023-04-29T01:52:12 < zyp> the main thing that separates coroutines from threads is that they don't have a stack
2023-04-29T01:52:35 < zyp> so there's no thread stack sizes to worry about
2023-04-29T01:53:02 < catphish> no stack sounds inconvenient
2023-04-29T01:53:29 < zyp> no, it's really convenient, because you don't have to worry about how big a stack each of your task needs
2023-04-29T01:53:32 < BrainDamage> that depends on the implementation
2023-04-29T01:53:43 < BrainDamage> the concept does allow context switch, freezing, etc, but not all implementations do
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2023-04-29T01:54:43 < zyp> coroutine state is heap allocated (typically, it's customizable), and handled by the compiler, so as long as you've got enough heap, you're good
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2023-04-29T01:54:54 < nomorekaki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Kiwi_flag
2023-04-29T01:55:23 < zyp> regular functions are still stack allocated
2023-04-29T01:56:17 < zyp> so you've got one shared stack for everything that's used when a coroutine calls regular functions
2023-04-29T01:57:13 < zyp> the coroutine can only suspend on co_await (and friends), at which point it's not storing anything on the stack
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2023-04-29T01:57:32 < zyp> any state that it needs to keep across a suspension point is stored in the coroutine frame on the heap instead
2023-04-29T01:57:48 < catphish> ah all coroutines are at the root of the stack?
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2023-04-29T01:58:33 < zyp> not necessarily, they go wherever they're invoked
2023-04-29T01:59:05 < zyp> e.g. if your main() is running the scheduler(), they go on top of the main frame when they runs
2023-04-29T01:59:25 < catphish> but functions they call can't then yield, right?
2023-04-29T01:59:30 < zyp> if you resume one from an ISR, it goes on top of the ISR frame, until it's suspended again, to let the ISR return
2023-04-29T01:59:35 < zyp> correct
2023-04-29T01:59:54 < catphish> i see (i think)
2023-04-29T02:00:48 < zyp> coroutines can only be suspended at suspension points, and a suspension point might be another coroutine
2023-04-29T02:02:02 < zyp> so you can have one coroutine (a toplevel one would be a task), awaiting another coroutine, which is again awaiting a sleep() or something
2023-04-29T02:03:22 < zyp> so you've got a chain of suspended coroutines, which is functionally similar to the thread stack of a sleeping thread
2023-04-29T02:03:48 < zyp> but they don't need to be contiguous in memory like function frames on a thread stack
2023-04-29T02:03:55 < zyp> they're more like a linked list on the heap
2023-04-29T02:05:30 < zyp> when you're returning from a coroutine, you don't pop the frame off the stack, you free it from the linked list
2023-04-29T02:05:34 < catphish> i just need to work out what the simplest / most reliable way to implement this in C will be
2023-04-29T02:06:14 < catphish> i would think setting up interrupts and trakcing state would be the best way
2023-04-29T02:06:14 < catphish> if i can minimize the number of states, that might not be too painful
2023-04-29T02:06:21 < zyp> in C? forget about doing it fancy, just write an interrupt driven state machine :p
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2023-04-29T02:07:13 < catphish> yeah that's my thought
2023-04-29T02:07:19 < catphish> i was just hoping to be lazier i think
2023-04-29T02:08:06 < zyp> you almost couldn't have picked a worse language then :)
2023-04-29T02:08:28 < zyp> you could have gone with assembler, but yeah
2023-04-29T02:10:15 < zyp> today I got an email around 15 about some high priority shit breaking and had to spend a couple hours putting out the fire before I could go home
2023-04-29T02:13:15 < zyp> guess why? messy C async code that's breaking stuff because people get lazy and make blocking calls
2023-04-29T02:13:49 < zyp> because manually managing state across suspensions is annoying
2023-04-29T02:17:31 < zyp> stuff like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/BRAlu
2023-04-29T02:18:18 < zyp> now, add in more calls and error handling for each and so on…
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2023-04-29T02:21:11 < zyp> next time I'm gonna build something new on that codebase, it'd be really tempting to make a bit of interfacing so I can drop C++ coroutines into the existing infrastructure
2023-04-29T02:31:47 < nomorekaki> if I want to match names to device addresses like 4 should give lets say 'Coolant pump' and 6 should give 'Alternator' is list of tuples the right way to do it catphish?
2023-04-29T02:31:56 < nomorekaki> we are pythoning today
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2023-04-29T02:34:08 < nomorekaki> ah dum me.. there are only 8 addresses
2023-04-29T02:34:28 < nomorekaki> I just do len 8 list
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2023-04-29T19:42:40 < jadew> has anyone else noticed that search is not working as well anymore?
2023-04-29T19:42:46 < jadew> like google search
2023-04-29T19:42:56 < jadew> I'm not sure how good bing was before, but it's not better now
2023-04-29T19:49:00 < jpa-> bazillion companies specializing in spamming crap with "SEO" probably doesn't help
2023-04-29T19:49:26 < jpa-> not sure which timescale you are thinking for "anymore"
2023-04-29T19:49:38 < jadew> like maybe the past year or so
2023-04-29T19:49:49 < jadew> but it's gotten worse in the past couple of months I think
2023-04-29T19:49:52 < jpa-> i think i have been hearing about "google not working as well anymore" for at least a decade now
2023-04-29T19:50:15 < jadew> it's just that I can't find anything anymore
2023-04-29T19:50:31 < jadew> well, that's a lie, but I can't find lots of things anymore
2023-04-29T19:50:37 < jadew> that I'm sure I would have found in the past
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2023-04-29T19:51:03 < jpa-> information disappears constantly
2023-04-29T19:51:16 < jadew> no, it's not that, it's the way it works
2023-04-29T19:51:43 < jadew> two years ago it was like it was reading your mind, now you can't nail the result no matter how specific you get in the query
2023-04-29T19:52:00 < jpa-> .. as if
2023-04-29T19:52:09 < jpa-> maybe it was reading your mind, but it certainly wasn't reading mine
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2023-04-29T20:18:17 < qyx> jadew: I did, it is gettig worse every day
2023-04-29T20:19:26 < qyx> in the sense thatitisnot willing to find the requested information according to keywords
2023-04-29T20:19:47 < jadew> exactly, yeah
2023-04-29T20:20:20 < qyx> instead it feeds you with crap other people search and "trending" bullshit remotely resembling yourkeywords
2023-04-29T20:20:40 < jadew> you think that's what's happening?
2023-04-29T20:22:31 < qyx> I think it is shifting from "the best result for these keywords" to "the most accurate result according to contextual data", whatever that means
2023-04-29T20:23:19 < qyx> introducing pastsearch bias, your friends bias, neighbours, etc.
2023-04-29T20:24:11 < qyx> but idk
2023-04-29T20:24:39 < jadew> I heard about something like that too, and that you would get different results if you searched with a clean session, but I'm not convinced that's it
2023-04-29T20:29:21 < qyx> clean session alter the results but not that much as I would expect
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2023-04-29T21:11:51 < PaulFertser> jadew: I'm always using a private tab and in my experience google search gives less relevant results than it used to be. Feels like often times duckduckgo is much better for my interests, even though it's annoying and feels worse than google used to be.
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2023-04-29T21:36:51 < jadew> PaulFertser, I forgot about duckduckgo, will give it a try next time
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2023-04-29T21:55:59 < PaulFertser> jadew: I also like its "bang commands" so that I have ddg as my default "location bar" search engine and then I'm just typing something like "std::deque !cppreference", "obliteration !wiktionary" "!wiki torrefaction" "concatMap !hoogle" etc. And when I'm unhappy with ddg search results I scroll to the top and add "!g" to the search string and check what google has to offer.
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2023-04-29T21:59:10 < jadew> I'll give it a try, used to be pretty bad a while ago
2023-04-29T22:35:51 < zyp> I don't experience google giving me worse results than it has in the past
2023-04-29T22:37:07 < fenugrec> I do - rarely use it except for more challenging searches;  hate the results page, the first 10 results are usually garbage
2023-04-29T22:38:07 < zyp> I rarely have to look past the first five results or so
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2023-04-29T22:42:19 < jadew> they could also be running trials, on like entire countries
2023-04-29T22:42:29 < jadew> to test how new algorithms work
2023-04-29T22:42:54 < fenugrec> or maybe zyp is just a conformist mainstream user who googles 'restaurant near me' : ))
2023-04-29T22:42:58 < jadew> I distinctly remember a time when google was useful
2023-04-29T22:45:23 < qyx> it could be the fact that search engines are optimised for people using them
2023-04-29T22:45:33 < qyx> in the past we were the power users
2023-04-29T22:45:55 < qyx> and actuallu mostly the onlu users googling advanced topics
2023-04-29T22:46:11 < jadew> it's not happening with just technical stuff
2023-04-29T22:46:13 < qyx> now everybody uses "the common" internet
2023-04-29T22:46:32 < jadew> like if you go to image search and search for something in particular - maybe the poster of a more obscure movie
2023-04-29T22:47:05 < jadew> you'll end up with garbage results and often with very few (maybe not even enough to fill one page)
2023-04-29T22:47:31 < jadew> while if you add one additional keyword it might end up showing you that image too, so it could have shown it with the fewer keywords too, it just didn't
2023-04-29T22:48:19 < qyx> I am using the same background picture for ages, I google it every time I am provisioning a new device for me
2023-04-29T22:48:31 < qyx> every yearit is harder to find the exact picture
2023-04-29T22:48:47 < fenugrec> I've found it seems to totally ignore some keywords sometimes, despite quoting them or prefixing with '+'. Like, STFU, I put that word in there for a reason, don't make up hits just to fill pages with shit
2023-04-29T22:49:18 < jadew> yeah, I noticed that too and it's super annoying
2023-04-29T22:49:42 < qyx> yeah it even tells you must-include: <del>your-keyword</del>
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2023-04-30T22:58:47 < zyp> karlp, I made a quick solution to the subset/superset stuff I talked about before: env.SelectMCU('stm32g0b1cb', patch = {'mem': {'ram': {'size': 16 * 1024}}})
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--- Log closed ma touko 01 00:00:38 2023