--- Log opened to kesä 01 00:00:18 2023
2023-06-01T00:01:03 -!- nomorekaki [~nomorekak@176-93-35-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2023-06-01T00:01:15 < nomorekaki> 1min late hello
2023-06-01T00:02:12 < Steffanx> Sauna time 
2023-06-01T00:03:19 < nomorekaki> you late steff
2023-06-01T00:03:22 < nomorekaki> sauna time was
2023-06-01T00:05:25 < Steffanx> Is never too late for sauna time 
2023-06-01T00:07:51 < nomorekaki> I just dried myself?
2023-06-01T00:07:54 < nomorekaki> again?
2023-06-01T00:08:07 < nomorekaki> sauna encore
2023-06-01T00:08:54 < nomorekaki> indeed it's never too late for sauna
2023-06-01T00:10:40 < nomorekaki> sometimes I visit my friend and we decide to sauna and when we go to sauna the stove has been on for 7hours and it
2023-06-01T00:11:38 < nomorekaki> it's like 100C inside
2023-06-01T00:12:19 < nomorekaki> basically switch on sauna in 18-19
2023-06-01T00:12:58 < nomorekaki> so that we don't forget to switch it on for sauna around 22 23
2023-06-01T00:13:23 < nomorekaki> then it's 2AM and I drag my sleepy friend to sauna
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2023-06-01T00:23:08 < aandrew> ugh
2023-06-01T00:23:18 < aandrew> what kind of dumb motherfucker uses SWO for a fan tach input
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2023-06-01T01:24:06 < karlp> the vast unwashed who have no idea what it is...
2023-06-01T01:24:29 < karlp> ok, enough swearing at computers, time to kill people
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2023-06-01T01:49:58 < zyp> jpa-, doing a low latency network protocol doesn't seem all that useful when host side latency is a couple orders of magnitude larger
2023-06-01T01:50:01 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qL2Fc
2023-06-01T01:55:49 < karlp> what are we looking at?
2023-06-01T01:56:03 < zyp> linuxcnc
2023-06-01T01:57:00 < zyp> I've written a custom realtime driver that talks to my fpga shit
2023-06-01T01:59:07 < zyp> and the update function that effectively runs send() and recv() on an AF_PACKET socket takes 100us
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2023-06-01T06:40:14 < jpa-> zyp: 100us sounds low enough to me
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2023-06-01T10:51:22 < zyp> jpa-, well, yeah, I'm not gonna be doing any software stepping…
2023-06-01T10:55:05 < jpa-> IIRC i have 50+ us with mesa on pcie bus
2023-06-01T10:56:03 < zyp> what's it spending all the time on? :)
2023-06-01T10:56:08 < jpa-> in mesa the code is organized so that there is .read() that gets called first in the thread, then any linuxcnc HAL components run, and then .write() writes the new data to hardware
2023-06-01T10:56:56 < jpa-> i think it is writing registers synchronously, without DMA
2023-06-01T10:57:01 < zyp> yeah, I was thinking that swapping the order of read and write could at least reduce the time spent
2023-06-01T10:57:18 < jpa-> huh?
2023-06-01T10:57:45 < zyp> right now I'm doing send(); recv();
2023-06-01T10:57:47 < jpa-> what matters is the delay from getting new data from hardware to when the actions based on that data are taken, so you don't want to delay the write() until next cycle
2023-06-01T11:00:55 < zyp> well, on the hardware, read and write happens simultaneously
2023-06-01T11:01:37 < jpa-> so what is the actual latency from when you read e.g. motor position to when the new motor driver control value gets applied?
2023-06-01T11:01:52 < zyp> host pushes out outgoing data and gets back incoming data simultaneously
2023-06-01T11:02:17 < jpa-> so 1 ms latency?
2023-06-01T11:02:54 < zyp> if it's running with a 1ms cycle period, sure
2023-06-01T11:03:40 < jpa-> yeah; should be fine for most purposes but still significantly higher than what you could theoretically get
2023-06-01T11:08:06 < zyp> I mean, if you want to reduce latency, you could do two exchanges per cycle; one before and one after the processing
2023-06-01T11:10:24 < jpa-> i think mesa ethernet does it so that the hardware measures interval between received packets from PC, and then schedules data sending to happen a bit before the next expected packet - so that the PC driver has data already waiting when the cycle starts
2023-06-01T11:10:47 < jpa-> but especially if you are going to do motor PID on hardware side, the 1 ms latency is fine
2023-06-01T11:12:01 < zyp> eventually I might do a pcie fpga card for the host too, so it doesn't deal with ethernet at all
2023-06-01T11:20:23 < zyp> current approach should at least be enough to get me started
2023-06-01T11:26:17 < zyp> jpa-, also, I couldn't keep myself from doing the driver in C++: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/kyTyz
2023-06-01T11:33:55 < zyp> socket timeout doesn't seem to be very useful, seems to be on the order of 10ms or so
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2023-06-01T18:13:30 < mawk> https://youtu.be/C-UCr9mJ9bY
2023-06-01T18:13:55 < mawk> power glitching the nRF31512 to extract firmweare
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2023-06-01T18:44:51 < karlp> man, matter is pretty fucking gross.
2023-06-01T18:45:00 < karlp> has j2ee enterprise fail written all over it.
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2023-06-01T19:48:29 < zyp> mawk, I added glitching capability to orbtrace a couple of months ago so I could extract nrf52 firmware
2023-06-01T19:51:34 < zyp> jpa-, I found out that the PHYs has a mode that supports EEE independent of the MAC, and does that by adding a FIFO to deliberately add tx latency so it has time to wake up the link
2023-06-01T19:52:02 < zyp> didn't show up when I measured timing with the profishark, because the profishark doesn't negotiate EEE
2023-06-01T19:52:19 < zyp> turning it off gets me down to around 55us
2023-06-01T19:52:32 < jpa-> :)
2023-06-01T19:53:11 < zyp> wireshark running on the same host reports around 20us delta between request and response timestamps
2023-06-01T19:53:31 < zyp> IIRC profishark measures around 1.3us with a single device in the chain
2023-06-01T19:53:55 < jpa-> i have a work project coming up which needs 0.1 ms accuracy sync between several STM32 ethernet devices; i hope to manage with just NTP, though i guess PTP would be relatively easy also
2023-06-01T19:54:14 < jpa-> or possibly just some custom UDP stuff
2023-06-01T19:54:35 < zyp> also, apparently I need to tweak some stuff, because at the moment I only receive responses while wireshark is running :)
2023-06-01T19:55:01 < jpa-> you are so promiscuous :)
2023-06-01T19:55:13 < zyp> exactly
2023-06-01T19:55:40 < zyp> there's some fields in the sockaddr that I bind to that'll probably help
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2023-06-01T20:10:36 < zyp> hmm, doing a nonblocking read and busywaiting makes no apparent difference to timing
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2023-06-01T20:38:41 < zyp> actually, scoping the execution time suggests it's slightly better while busywaiting rather than blocking
2023-06-01T20:38:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uaxsT.png
2023-06-01T20:40:02 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JaWOp.png
2023-06-01T20:40:55 < jpa-> halscope is so annoyingly clunky but nevertheless effective debug tool :)
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2023-06-01T21:05:13 < zyp> I feel like a lot of linuxcnc seems fairly old and clunky, but the framework seems pretty powerful
2023-06-01T21:06:48 < zyp> I wish it had support for running realtime functions on the dedicated realtime cores that some ARM SoCs have
2023-06-01T21:08:25 < zyp> kinda tempted to get this thing: https://www.xilinx.com/products/som/kria/kr260-robotics-starter-kit.html
2023-06-01T21:08:52 < zyp> the k26 module it's based on is quad A53 plus dual R5 plus fpga
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2023-06-01T21:23:42 < boddax> nice thing
2023-06-01T21:25:42 < boddax> SPF for the gbe otical?
2023-06-01T21:29:23 < zyp> 10gbe
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2023-06-01T21:39:11 < Laurence_b> holy sheeet
2023-06-01T21:39:26 < Laurence_b> muh PhD supervisor has joined the redpilled edgelord twitter squad
2023-06-01T21:39:38 < Laurence_b> inb4 the SJWs find my thesis
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2023-06-01T21:57:23 < specing> Laurence_b: what was your thesis...
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2023-06-01T21:59:57 < Laurence_b> medical sensor stuff
2023-06-01T22:01:41 < specing> and why would SJWs take an issue with that?
2023-06-01T22:02:55 < Steffanx> Crappylary refill time it was?
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2023-06-01T23:38:11 < qyx> what is zyp innovating
2023-06-01T23:38:15 < qyx> cnc plasma cutter?
2023-06-01T23:38:59 < mawk> zyp: did it work?
2023-06-01T23:39:59 < mawk> [19:10:36] <zyp> hmm, doing a nonblocking read and busywaiting makes no apparent difference to timing
2023-06-01T23:40:02 < mawk> on linux?
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2023-06-01T23:44:42 < Steffanx> Yes
2023-06-01T23:45:04 < zyp> qyx, new controller for the fanuc arm
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2023-06-01T23:54:30 < qyx> oh
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--- Day changed pe kesä 02 2023
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2023-06-02T00:37:47 < zyp> jpa-, here's some good bullshit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/n2bDp.mp4 :)
2023-06-02T00:38:21 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/VNSby
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2023-06-02T01:11:16 < Phantom> question: I get random I2C errors that freeze the µC. Sometime after a reset the I2C is still in error and freeze the µC right after again... any idea how to debug?
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2023-06-02T01:12:20 < zyp> one of your slaves doesn't know that you reset the microcontroller and is still outputting a 0, waiting for the next clock pulse to advance
2023-06-02T01:13:48 < zyp> i.e. at this point the problem isn't the microcontroller, and what you have to do to recover is to feed it a few clock pulses
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2023-06-02T01:15:14 < zyp> also, which microcontroller are you using?
2023-06-02T01:15:59 < zyp> the older I2C peripherals had some issues that made them hard to work with
2023-06-02T01:22:01 < Phantom> stm32f103c8t6
2023-06-02T01:22:26 < zyp> yeah, that's the worst of the bunch
2023-06-02T01:22:28 < zyp> good luck
2023-06-02T01:23:22 < Phantom> is there any other quicks on it?
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2023-06-02T01:23:40 < zyp> IIRC it has some hardware race conditions that can lose events if you get the timing wrong, and when you lose an event you easily get a device stuck in a state where it's expecting more clocks
2023-06-02T01:23:54 < zyp> check the errata sheet
2023-06-02T01:24:00 < Phantom> ok will check
2023-06-02T01:24:07 < zyp> IIRC it's recommended to only use it interrupt driven or something
2023-06-02T01:24:09 < Phantom> thanks
2023-06-02T01:24:26 < Phantom> I use interrupt driven, using HAL
2023-06-02T01:24:37 < zyp> I don't remember the exact details, been years and years since last I touched it
2023-06-02T01:25:57 < Phantom> I'll check the errata tomorrow     it's annoying, my code is like 90% done
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2023-06-02T02:24:31 < Phantom> zyp: I checked the erata, there is some I2C stuff, but seems to not be a problem
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2023-06-02T08:58:48 < jpa-> zyp: i can see them getting out of sync ;)
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2023-06-02T09:58:00 < jpa-> "Your parcel is pending release from a Government Agency."  in digikey tracking.. first time i noticed that :)
2023-06-02T10:11:03 < Phantom> does it contain a bearing?
2023-06-02T10:11:30 < Phantom> never ever ship a bearing from canada to USA and declare it as just that...
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2023-06-02T12:48:12 < drzacek> Phantom, why?
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2023-06-02T13:07:13 < jbo> hallo zusammen!
2023-06-02T13:08:08 < zyp> hallo jbo 
2023-06-02T13:15:42 < jbo> nothing like upgrading php on a Friday
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2023-06-02T13:29:41 < Steffanx> Who installed it in the first place meinherr jbo ?
2023-06-02T13:31:16 < jbo> jbo the bastard
2023-06-02T13:31:34 < Steffanx> oh dear.. did he want to wordpress?
2023-06-02T13:32:04 < jbo> he wanted to catch them all!
2023-06-02T13:32:48 -!- PsySc0rpi0n [~PsySc0rpi@2001:8a0:e168:f400:5410:8414:1db3:27ce] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2023-06-02T13:32:51 < Steffanx> Should've gone with Java.
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2023-06-02T13:49:56 < Phantom> bearings are a restricted class of items because.... missiles use them...   I'm dead serious
2023-06-02T14:02:16 < jbo> meanwhile, I'm not bassing the "Verify you are a human" test at ti.com q_q
2023-06-02T14:16:54 < zyp> are you having treble with it?
2023-06-02T14:20:43 < Steffanx> lol
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2023-06-02T14:37:02 < PaulFertser> ventYl: hey. I'd be happy to discuss pbp with you a bit more, would really appreciate your input when you have time.
2023-06-02T14:37:37 < PaulFertser> Probably on their channel if you do not have reasons to avoid it now.
2023-06-02T14:41:46 < ventYl> PaulFertser: I don't have any reason to avoid #pinebook. Just, PBP reboots occasionally and I don't have #pinebook in auto-join
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2023-06-02T15:39:22 < drzacek> Phantom, oh boy, nobody tell them missiles use smd resistors
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2023-06-02T15:59:14 < jbo> chill guys
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2023-06-02T17:00:52 < Steffanx> yes boss
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2023-06-02T20:16:32 < mawk> jimbo
2023-06-02T20:27:39 < Steffanx> I know Jumbo, but who's Jimbo mr mawk ?
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2023-06-02T20:40:47 < boddax> Dr. Jimbo
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--- Day changed la kesä 03 2023
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2023-06-03T01:10:41 < nomorekaki> early?
2023-06-03T01:13:09 -!- martinmoene [~Thunderbi@2a02-a45a-96ba-1-fcd0-4039-56ff-3357.fixed6.kpn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2023-06-03T01:14:10 < Steffanx> late.
2023-06-03T01:14:32 < nomorekaki> finnish police has innovated a method for dismantling gatherings of drunken youth
2023-06-03T01:14:39 < nomorekaki> they blast classical musics
2023-06-03T01:15:43 < Steffanx> Yeah theyve been doing that hear for a long time.
2023-06-03T01:16:07 < nomorekaki> apparenly repels teenagers super efficiently
2023-06-03T01:16:17 < nomorekaki> some stores do that
2023-06-03T01:16:27 < nomorekaki> they play classical musics in their doorways
2023-06-03T01:19:55 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OFpfTd0EIs musics Steffanx
2023-06-03T01:22:36 < Steffanx> meh
2023-06-03T01:23:47 < nomorekaki> 2:25
2023-06-03T01:24:23 < Steffanx> Was just listening to this guy again.. https://youtu.be/LnvIla0akWA?t=3480
2023-06-03T01:24:32 < Steffanx> or https://youtu.be/LnvIla0akWA?t=4201 when finally the beat kicks in :)
2023-06-03T01:24:34 < nomorekaki> damn I remember that guitar riff from my early childhood
2023-06-03T01:24:49 < Steffanx> blame mr q y x for ever mentioning this guy to me.
2023-06-03T01:26:22 < Steffanx> dont think that song was ever a big hit in dutchland nomorekaki 
2023-06-03T01:26:43 < nomorekaki> bet it wasnt
2023-06-03T01:27:11 < nomorekaki> it's from album Rebel Yell
2023-06-03T01:27:32 < nomorekaki> guess what song was high at charts from that album
2023-06-03T01:29:22 < Steffanx> it didnt hit the charts here. Not Rebel Yell at least.
2023-06-03T01:30:50 < nomorekaki> maybe white wedding?
2023-06-03T01:31:25 < nomorekaki> white wedding plays in rock station here still
2023-06-03T01:31:45 < Steffanx> Today is the first time i notice youtube does some moodlightish thing in dark mode.
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2023-06-03T01:32:00 < Steffanx> first i thought "my display is doing werid"  but it's youtube
2023-06-03T01:32:01 < nomorekaki> it's been months now
2023-06-03T01:32:40 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAZQaYKZMTI white wedding
2023-06-03T01:33:17 < Steffanx> nope
2023-06-03T01:33:51 < Steffanx> not a big loss anyway, i dont like it
2023-06-03T01:34:25 < nomorekaki> that Mood light thing shows my graphics are running some bullshit modes
2023-06-03T01:34:32 < nomorekaki> it's flickering
2023-06-03T01:34:54 < Steffanx> same here
2023-06-03T01:35:37 < nomorekaki> i think intel has some mode that does various bullshit to fool you to think there is smooth gradient
2023-06-03T01:35:58 < Steffanx> i think its youtube... not intel
2023-06-03T01:37:55 < nomorekaki> your gpu?
2023-06-03T01:38:12 < nomorekaki> intel + firefox?
2023-06-03T01:38:57 < Steffanx> Nvidia + firefox
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2023-06-03T01:40:23 < Phantom> zyp: found part of the i2c issue. sliight init issue, but the real issue was not I2C related... it was uart3 related... off by one error... yay...   still have another one somewhere, but meh, monday
2023-06-03T01:43:12 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: will you go to movies to see Oppenheimer?
2023-06-03T01:43:36 < Steffanx> Nein
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2023-06-03T01:48:14 < Steffanx> Last time I went to the cinema was for one of the hobbit movies I think
2023-06-03T01:48:24 < Steffanx> In 3D and hated it.
2023-06-03T01:59:15 < nomorekaki> fail
2023-06-03T01:59:21 < nomorekaki> you never go to 3d show
2023-06-03T02:02:07 < nomorekaki> projector doesn't have nearly enough output to effectivelly more than halve it with those glasses
2023-06-03T02:02:23 < nomorekaki> also feels weird to look at
2023-06-03T02:18:32 < Steffanx> It didn't work properly for me
2023-06-03T02:24:31 < Phantom> depend on which projectors
2023-06-03T02:25:08 < Phantom> here it's fine, plus at 3pm on the second week you have a 50/50 chance of having a private display!
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2023-06-03T03:02:08 < Laurence_b> keeekkk
2023-06-03T03:02:10 < Laurence_b> https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/m4
2023-06-03T03:02:19 < Laurence_b> ""it will be simple and cheap""
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2023-06-03T04:31:13 < karlp> wat is this frank tedesco shit? I feel like I've beenmissing half the internet or soemthing, what ?!
2023-06-03T04:31:49 < karlp> "listening again" "video uploaded 6 days ago".....
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2023-06-03T04:36:08 < karlp> lolrence, quotes a phrase, not even the word "simple" is on the  referenced page...
2023-06-03T04:41:53 < mawk> >Demonstrating ignition is a crucial milestone in the strategy to commercialising fusion energy.
2023-06-03T04:42:03 < mawk> understatement
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2023-06-03T09:06:57 < Steffanx> Lol karlp. Just some random YouTuber/twitch dude Mr q yx mentioned a while back. I like the tunes he makes "out of the blue".
2023-06-03T09:10:54 < Steffanx> But I'll assume people liking  "Cha Cha Cha" will not like it. 
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2023-06-03T22:06:28 < Laurence_b> https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F30ab95fa-5113-4044-a02f-2511f5815af0_354x754.jpeg
2023-06-03T22:10:24 < specing> can you post a summary? That url is too long
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--- Day changed su kesä 04 2023
2023-06-04T00:04:09 < josuah> https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/30ab95fa-5113-4044-a02f-2511f5815af0_354x754.jpeg
2023-06-04T00:05:02 < josuah> same but a tiny bit less long... shame on you, web infrastructure who always put more data in the URL!
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2023-06-04T06:57:59 < Phantom> Hi there, st-link... "Error in initializing ST-LINK device. Reason: (18) Could not verify ST device! Abort connection."  mandatory counterfeit chip? or there is another explanation?
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2023-06-04T14:09:26 < boddax> chinese homemade chips
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2023-06-04T15:57:25 < karlp> what stlink, and what target too..
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2023-06-04T19:21:56 < boddax> KitKat has function to create breakable pcb ?
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2023-06-04T20:54:53 < jpa-> no, but it will keep your cat healthy
2023-06-04T21:02:14 < Steffanx> Have a break, have a KitKat 
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2023-06-04T21:40:28 < boddax> had breakfast, cat with polenta
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2023-06-05T04:57:53 < nomorekaki> early hello
2023-06-05T05:05:32 < nomorekaki> sun is up - time to sleep
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2023-06-05T13:26:32 < mausghast> guess whos back lol
2023-06-05T13:52:52 < Steffanx> Santa?
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2023-06-05T14:12:10 < mausghast> :|
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2023-06-05T15:55:05 < jbo> do you guys know the idiot that ordered 20pcs banana stackable connectors in 2mm instead of 4mm size?
2023-06-05T15:55:56 < mawk> yourself?
2023-06-05T15:56:00 < jbo> yes
2023-06-05T15:56:05 < mawk> lol
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2023-06-05T16:02:30 < jbo> not lol
2023-06-05T16:02:35 < jbo> very sad :<
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2023-06-05T16:24:01 < Steffanx> Good job jbo. Luckily you're a moneyed westerner.
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2023-06-05T16:48:31 < mawk> jbo try 00000000 for the PIN2 of your modem
2023-06-05T16:48:34 < mawk> usually it's that
2023-06-05T16:48:43 < mawk> it's not extremely useful though
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2023-06-05T17:17:51 < jbo> mawk, it's a friend-provided SIM card so I'll not be fucking around with that :)
2023-06-05T17:18:25 < mawk> don't worry you have 3 tries
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2023-06-05T17:27:39 < jbo> :D
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2023-06-05T17:48:02 < Steffanx> You can easily request a new sim card right?
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2023-06-05T20:17:17 < ds2> jbo: are you human? 
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2023-06-05T21:02:25 < Steffanx> I wonder the same.
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2023-06-05T21:29:44 < turnip420> hi
2023-06-05T21:30:23 < turnip420> Anyone have a recommendation for a low temp solder paste that flows well?
2023-06-05T21:30:31 < turnip420> Just general purpose
2023-06-05T21:51:32 < mawk> something with lead
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2023-06-05T22:22:01 < zyp> low temp as in those special chipquik ones for desoldering?
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2023-06-06T01:42:29 < turnip420> zyp: I'm doing some basic reflow soldering, I'm wondering if anyone has a chipquick goto
2023-06-06T01:42:45 < turnip420> Well not super basic
2023-06-06T01:43:10 < turnip420> A decent paste that doesn't bridge tqfp pads etc
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2023-06-06T06:11:21 < machinehum> What will Ag give you in paste?
2023-06-06T06:11:26 < machinehum> What properties
2023-06-06T06:11:55 < machinehum> adding silver to solder paste aims to improve wettability of soldering and strengthen soldering strength and fatigue resistance.
2023-06-06T06:11:57 < machinehum> hmm
2023-06-06T06:12:39 < machinehum> I guess I'll try Sn63Pb37 
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2023-06-06T09:03:49 < jpa-> turnip420-aka-machinehum-not-here: i use TS391SNL50 because it can be stored room-temperature
2023-06-06T09:16:28 < jadew> is a "right to injunction" clause normal in an independent contractor contract?
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2023-06-06T09:25:40 < jpa-> do you have details?
2023-06-06T09:26:13 < jpa-> i've never had specific clause for such, but wouldn't it be just "right to injunction according to applicable laws" which is pretty useless clause
2023-06-06T09:34:58 < jadew> I think it means that even if there's no law granting them that right, now they have it
2023-06-06T09:35:31 < jadew> so if they consider you're in breach of the contract, they can prevent you from doing the thing that breaches the contract
2023-06-06T09:36:59 < jpa-> yet it will still be in subject to court evaluation, so unless the clause gives explicit criteria, it seems the decision will be pretty similar to what it would normally be
2023-06-06T09:37:33 < jpa-> i doubt such clause gives them right to get permanent injunction against you programming anymore, even if they fear that any programming by you will leak their super cool secrets
2023-06-06T09:43:47 < jadew> yeah... that's what I'm trying to prevent
2023-06-06T09:43:57 < jadew> I don't want to let any weird clauses in
2023-06-06T09:44:05 < jadew> especially ones that can be broken super easily
2023-06-06T09:44:48 < jpa-> yeah, strike it out or bill for lawyer time :)
2023-06-06T09:48:24 < jpa-> chatgpt says that the difference is typically that the "right to injunction" clause establishes that the work performed is of such nature that an injunction may be necessary to prevent "irreparable harm"
2023-06-06T09:49:18 < jadew> yeah, but that sounds like a lot of interpretable things
2023-06-06T09:49:19 < jpa-> i've never performed work that would fit that clause.. at worst i could have leaked some secrets worth maybe 100keur or so, which is definitely a "reparable damage"
2023-06-06T09:50:40 < jadew> you could have potentially caused more damage than that
2023-06-06T09:51:22 < jadew> I only had one page contracts before
2023-06-06T09:51:29 < jadew> "we shook hands on this thing"
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2023-06-06T09:56:49 < jpa-> yeah, i prefer simple contracts like that
2023-06-06T09:58:04 < jpa-> i'm having trouble coming up with truly irreparable damage that being involved in a remote contract would have given me ability to do, and that court injunction would have been a reasonable approach to prevent
2023-06-06T10:08:38 < ventYl> jadew: I didn't have any such clause. mostly just standard NDA, copyright and licensing stuff and in some cases anti-competition and anti-circumvent clauses
2023-06-06T10:31:36 < jadew> ventYl, yeah, I don't mind that either
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2023-06-06T10:46:47 < zyp> TS391SNL is what I recently picked up as well, also because of the room temperature property
2023-06-06T10:47:57 < zyp> I got the syringe and not the jar though
2023-06-06T10:48:18 < zyp> I use little enough that I'm not gonna use it up before it gets too old anyway
2023-06-06T11:04:07 < jpa-> i had some 4 year old jar last time i got a new one; couldn't detect any difference in how it behaved
2023-06-06T11:05:05 < jpa-> i've needed to stir it every now and then though, which is probably easier to do in a jar than syringe
2023-06-06T11:05:08 < zyp> I don't think I'll use up a syringe in four years either :)
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2023-06-06T11:05:46 < zyp> and theoretically a syringe should last longer since air doesn't get inside
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2023-06-06T11:14:08 < Steffanx> Heh same here. 5cc syringe I recall. There's 10cc too.
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2023-06-06T13:27:44 < jadew> zyp, is that better than the loctite stuff?
2023-06-06T13:28:04 < jadew> I have a very old jar that's still perfectly fine
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2023-06-06T13:56:28 < zyp> I don't know, haven't tried the loctite stuff
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2023-06-06T14:26:01 < jpa-> qyx: now there is a fancy animation of that bridge collapse https://yle.fi/a/74-20032050
2023-06-06T14:27:04 < jpa-> the official problem is that load calculations hadn't been done at all; i would fault just the missing bolts that would have prevented the brackets from folding open :)
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2023-06-06T14:41:19 < qyx> thats ridiculous
2023-06-06T14:41:50 < qyx> one joint has 250 kg capability?
2023-06-06T14:44:06 < jadew> jpa-, I think the brackets had bolts
2023-06-06T14:44:11 < jadew> they probably just flew off
2023-06-06T14:44:50 < jadew> in the pictures it looks like they have the bolts in place
2023-06-06T14:45:05 < jadew> anyone died?
2023-06-06T14:46:02 < qyx> those pictures at the end are the "fixed" state afterwards
2023-06-06T14:46:43 < jadew> ah
2023-06-06T14:47:24 < jadew> so they did the load calculation and figured out they had to add the bolts too, as per the schematic :)
2023-06-06T14:49:40 < jadew> why were there so many people on that thing?
2023-06-06T14:50:43 < jadew> it looks like something construction workers would use, but you don't expect that many of them to use it at the same time
2023-06-06T14:51:55 < qyx> because it was a pedestrian "bridge" between two buildings for school children
2023-06-06T14:52:06 < qyx> try to tame a stream of children
2023-06-06T14:52:18 < jadew> :(
2023-06-06T14:52:41 < qyx> they behave according to law of fluid dynamics
2023-06-06T14:53:04 < jadew> that's funny
2023-06-06T14:53:11 < jadew> any bad injuries?
2023-06-06T14:53:28 < qyx> yeah but no fatalities iirc
2023-06-06T14:53:35 < qyx> it was in jpa-land
2023-06-06T14:54:18 < qyx> now, why my temperature is a complex number
2023-06-06T14:55:17 < zyp> imaginary temperatures -- you're just dreaming about relaxing in the sun
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2023-06-06T15:31:25 < jadew> why is nvidia stock so overpriced... ffs
2023-06-06T15:32:03 < jadew> the ffs got there by mistake
2023-06-06T15:32:07 < BrainDamage> because of AI hype, right after the crypto hype
2023-06-06T15:32:22 < jadew> oh, AI, forgot about that
2023-06-06T15:32:39 < jadew> there's no way I'll be able to play recent games in the near future
2023-06-06T15:32:51 < jadew> maybe if I sell my car
2023-06-06T15:33:23 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't be surprised if the same crypto grifters are behind the AI hype, to find a way to recycle their hw
2023-06-06T15:33:32 < ventYl> it's not that bad. i play games for work occasionally and it works with relatively cheap GPU
2023-06-06T15:33:50 < zyp> jadew, maybe you'll finally have time to finish some projects then?
2023-06-06T15:33:53 < jadew> ventYl, yeah, I'm being facetious
2023-06-06T15:33:57 < ventYl> of course it depends on what's the motivation for you. if you need perfect graphics, then it might get expensive
2023-06-06T15:34:05 < jadew> zyp, unlikely, I got a job
2023-06-06T15:34:29 < BrainDamage> a real gamer is someone that spends 2k$ in hw and then uses the min settings because they get better reaction times
2023-06-06T15:34:39 < jadew> lol BrainDamage 
2023-06-06T15:36:30 < jadew> I know a guy who got into crypto farming right before it crashed a couple of months ago
2023-06-06T15:36:49 < jadew> he was selling his hardware
2023-06-06T15:37:44 < jadew> at that point he said it's not worth mining anymore, but maybe that changed
2023-06-06T15:38:12 < ventYl> well, if he mined long enough it would eventually pay off. but he was probably after quick money
2023-06-06T15:38:33 < ventYl> seasoned miners are not selling at price valid when they mine
2023-06-06T15:38:33 < jadew> best kind of money
2023-06-06T15:38:57 < jadew> ah, this guy was selling right away
2023-06-06T15:39:04 < jadew> he didn't view it as an investment
2023-06-06T15:39:52 < jadew> I think seasoned miners lost millions
2023-06-06T15:39:52 < ventYl> they don't view it as investment. it is still a speculation. but if you mine an asset, which tends to increase it sale value and you can afford holding the sale, then hold.
2023-06-06T15:40:28 < jadew> but that's not the case anymore
2023-06-06T15:40:50 < zyp> it doesn't make sense to mine at a loss at the current rate just because the value might increase later
2023-06-06T15:41:15 < zyp> if you want to invest in that situation, it's cheaper to just outright buy the crypto rather than mine it
2023-06-06T15:41:30 < jadew> good point
2023-06-06T15:42:03 < zyp> mining crypto is just buying crypto through your power bill
2023-06-06T15:42:41 < ventYl> I'd guess that people decomissioning their rigs would make it marginally profitable again
2023-06-06T15:43:05 < zyp> yeah, PoW is a feedback loop
2023-06-06T15:43:08 < ventYl> and man, the price is still > 25k
2023-06-06T15:44:37 < zyp> PoW energy use will always trend towards how much you can buy for the value of the mining proceeds
2023-06-06T15:45:08 < ventYl> its more expensive than it was when I sold mine
2023-06-06T15:46:43 < jadew> it's more expensive than 0, which is what it's worth
2023-06-06T15:47:34 < jadew> power wasted on AI on the other hand... that's a different thing
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2023-06-06T15:54:37 < ventYl> that's why I called it sale price
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2023-06-06T19:08:00 < jpa-> jadew: there were some rather bad face injuries, but no fatalities
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2023-06-06T21:32:17 < Ecco2> Hi!
2023-06-06T21:32:35 < Ecco2> Dumb question : I'm reading a datasheet, and it says that "VDD" should be "between -0.3 and 5V"
2023-06-06T21:32:36 < Ecco2> https://i.imgur.com/vupRSWj.png
2023-06-06T21:32:55 < Ecco2> What does that even mean? I would have understood a MIN value of, say, 3.0V
2023-06-06T21:32:59 < Ecco2> But -0.3?
2023-06-06T21:33:24 < Ecco2> Oh, my bad, those are absolute max ratings
2023-06-06T21:33:26 < Ecco2> sorry!
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2023-06-06T21:48:04 < BrainDamage> that if Vdd goes to -0.3V the body diodes will turn on and the thing will go in smoke
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2023-06-06T22:02:30 < Ecco2> yeah, makes sense :)
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2023-06-06T22:53:17 < qyx> zyp: grilling in the sun is definitely not my favourite way of relaxing
2023-06-06T23:05:12 < Steffanx> What is wrong with your qyx ?
2023-06-06T23:08:08 < qyx> nothing in particular
2023-06-06T23:08:19 < qyx> just fixing my misbehaving amplifier
2023-06-06T23:31:14 < Steffanx> you*
2023-06-06T23:32:45 < qyx> now fighting conda
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2023-06-06T23:46:18 < CBoy> Hello everyone, has anyone got experience in using CANOPEN on STM32?
--- Day changed ke kesä 07 2023
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2023-06-07T00:11:02 < ventYl> hello and goodbye
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2023-06-07T00:43:24 < Laurence_b> https://twitter.com/ivo_ltd/status/1648903692160999424 kek wtffffuuu
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2023-06-07T01:14:01 < karlp> fuckin chip, all C++, but drowning in macros thatuse gotos to do exit handling...
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2023-06-07T06:56:27 < Phantom> question: is the clock stable on the stm32f103c8t6? I have a 8MHz crystal and a x9 PLL, and I get lots of uart corruption.. using a ch340 8 pins variant (no xtal on it)
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2023-06-07T09:15:33 < ventYl> Phantom: do you have your divider for UART clock set up correctly for the bitrate you are using? there is some tolerance, but some devices are less tolerant than others
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2023-06-07T10:34:51 < PaulFertser> Still, it's impossible to get bad crystal-based clock bad enough for UART not to work, if your dividers are right for the baud rate.
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2023-06-07T10:38:21 < qyx> I would blame ch340 or wrong gpio config or whatever
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2023-06-07T10:38:48 < jpa-> i would just measure before blaming anyone
2023-06-07T10:39:58 < qyx> and then blame the tooling
2023-06-07T10:42:48 < PaulFertser> btw, this ds1054z seems to have a constant 70 mV (or something about it) offset, is anything known about issues like that?
2023-06-07T10:43:49 < PaulFertser> I mean I see it even when I choose GND coupling in the menu for the channel. Should have checked other channels though, will do next time.
2023-06-07T10:48:33 < zyp> did you calibrate it?
2023-06-07T10:50:07 < qyx> my lolwon started to have offsets too on both channels
2023-06-07T10:50:46 < PaulFertser> zyp: tbh, no idea how to calibrate offsets on them
2023-06-07T10:51:41 < zyp> IIRC there's an automated internal calibration, tells you to disconnect all inputs before it runs or something
2023-06-07T10:52:01 < jpa-> my DS1054Z has -5mV on CH1 now, running Utility -> Self-CAL, let's see once it finishes
2023-06-07T10:53:47 < PaulFertser> Thanks for the pointers!
2023-06-07T10:54:12 < jpa-> IIRC it takes a few minutes to run, but the progress bar is crawling along slower than that now :)
2023-06-07T10:54:32 < qyx> oh I have that option too, running now
2023-06-07T10:54:37 < qyx> it had +20 mV
2023-06-07T10:56:24 < qyx> k zero offset, thanks zyp, TIL how to work with my own tooling
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2023-06-07T10:56:54 < jpa-> sounds like owon self-cal is a lot faster :)
2023-06-07T10:57:09 < jpa-> mine is still at 20%
2023-06-07T10:57:33 < zyp> haha
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2023-06-07T11:17:10 < jpa-> finally finished, now offset +1mV
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2023-06-07T11:38:07 < PaulFertser> 25 minutes, hah, they like it slow. Good to know it works though.
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2023-06-07T12:06:17 < jpa-> probably good idea to let the scope warm first also
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2023-06-07T13:39:29 < qyx> python cbor2 encodes flaots as 9 bytes
2023-06-07T13:39:37 < qyx> came to this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/75168057/python-cbor2-encode-float-in-preferred-efficient-format
2023-06-07T13:39:43 < qyx> which is ridiculous
2023-06-07T13:39:59 < qyx> float(np.float32(2051.346)) works of course
2023-06-07T13:40:00 < qyx> but wtf
2023-06-07T13:40:17 < qyx> even np.float16 works
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2023-06-07T14:19:11 < benishor> can I safely read from an output pin with open drain?
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2023-06-07T15:23:59 < ventYl> benishor: IIRC, you'll even obtain correct result
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2023-06-07T15:33:30 < benishor> ventYl: thanks
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2023-06-07T20:11:10 < boddax> stm studio wont install even jdk installed looping to ask to install
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2023-06-07T21:43:46 < karlp> evenHSI is more than good enough for uarts, they documenti t's deviation in teh RM, 
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--- Day changed to kesä 08 2023
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2023-06-08T05:53:46 < Phantom> Question: if I use volatile uint16_t rxData[6];      HAL_UART_Receive(&huart3, (uint8_t *) rxData, 6, 150);          and I receive more data after the receive command has returned, is there any risk of corrupting the array rxData? Not using interrupt yet
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2023-06-08T09:50:48 < jpa-> Phantom: you'll need to see what HAL_UART_Receive actually does, but if it is just polling the registers, there is nothing moving the data to RAM after it finishes
2023-06-08T09:50:54 < jpa-> if it sets up DMA, that's different
2023-06-08T09:51:31 < jpa-> remember that the HAL source code is available, you can just read instead of making us read for you
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2023-06-08T14:24:22 < mawk> no Phantom 
2023-06-08T14:24:28 < mawk> this is the polling/blocking call, it doesn't do anything after it returns
2023-06-08T14:31:47 < benishor> where can one find stm32s stocked?
2023-06-08T14:33:08 < benishor> I am looking for some f7, h7
2023-06-08T14:33:16 < benishor> or am I hoping too much?
2023-06-08T15:26:29 < Mangy_Dog> the f and h 7s are probebly more in stock than the smaller ones :p
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2023-06-08T17:12:35 < zyp> topend h7 was still unobtanium last I checked
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2023-06-08T17:21:36 < Steffanx> If you don't mind some bga H7 you're "fine" 
2023-06-08T17:22:43  * Sadale licks Steffanx :3
2023-06-08T17:22:53 < Sadale> Steffanx, ha! You can't delete my licks here! :3
2023-06-08T17:23:49 < Sadale> I find it funny one has to read the source code of HAL to figure out what it actually does. Talk about documentations.
2023-06-08T17:24:03 < Steffanx> I can try Sadale 
2023-06-08T17:24:54 < Sadale> Steffanx, It's logged. It'll stay there for the eternity. :3
2023-06-08T17:25:26 < Sadale> You can get rid of my future licks, but not the existing ones :3
2023-06-08T17:25:28 < Steffanx> But what about future licks....
2023-06-08T17:25:33 < Steffanx> Ah lol
2023-06-08T17:26:38 < mouseghost> Sadale, :|
2023-06-08T17:27:37 < Sadale> mouseghost, oh, so you want licks as well? Too bad. I'm not gonna give you any :3
2023-06-08T17:27:53 < mouseghost> good
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2023-06-08T19:59:11 < machinehum> Twitter is fucking useless
2023-06-08T20:05:52 < Steffanx> Why machinehum ?
2023-06-08T20:06:47 < machinehum> I'm trying to plug my shit
2023-06-08T20:06:50 < machinehum> https://i.imgur.com/NuObn1J.png
2023-06-08T20:06:55 < machinehum> PCBway posted it
2023-06-08T20:07:01 < machinehum> Like oh wow 2.7k views
2023-06-08T20:07:18 < machinehum> MAYBE 100 of those views of Twitter converted to YouTube views
2023-06-08T20:07:19 < machinehum> MAYBE
2023-06-08T20:07:27 < machinehum> Like... wtf
2023-06-08T20:07:39 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2023-06-08T20:07:44 < Mangy_Dog> i have the same issue
2023-06-08T20:07:51 < Mangy_Dog> my tricorder stuff goes viral on tiwtter
2023-06-08T20:08:00 < Mangy_Dog> i had over 100 thousand views in some cases
2023-06-08T20:08:15 < Mangy_Dog> youtube?
2023-06-08T20:08:17 < Mangy_Dog> naaaaaa
2023-06-08T20:08:27 < machinehum> Reddit has way higher conversion
2023-06-08T20:08:29 < machinehum> https://old.reddit.com/r/hacking/comments/141kaau/open_source_self_destructing_usb_drive_update_ama/
2023-06-08T20:08:36 < Mangy_Dog> over hundreds of thousands i should say
2023-06-08T20:08:52 < machinehum> That's just like 187 upvotes or whatever, which was 1k+ youtube views
2023-06-08T20:09:01 < machinehum> Mangy_Dog: hah
2023-06-08T20:09:22 < machinehum> Twitter is just a useless shitstorm of bullshit, people care about quantity
2023-06-08T20:09:31 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-06-08T20:09:34 < Mangy_Dog> youtube too
2023-06-08T20:09:36 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2023-06-08T20:09:47 < Mangy_Dog> youtube only promotes if you upload very regularly
2023-06-08T20:09:56 < Mangy_Dog> makers like us cant keep up with the algorytm
2023-06-08T20:10:07 < machinehum> I'm getting zero network effect from youtube itself, unless people direct search
2023-06-08T20:10:09 < Mangy_Dog> no way can i upload 3 videos a week to stay relivent on youtube
2023-06-08T20:10:25 < Mangy_Dog> im struggling to get 3 videos a year :p
2023-06-08T20:10:36 < machinehum> Yeah turns out engineering isn't some fuck sitting and talking about shit
2023-06-08T20:10:40 < machinehum> low effort bullshit
2023-06-08T20:10:40 < Mangy_Dog> but when i do post... youtube does fa to get it out
2023-06-08T20:10:53 < machinehum> https://youtu.be/Rf-sYoMxoto
2023-06-08T20:10:59 < machinehum> I didn't post that anywhere
2023-06-08T20:11:04 < machinehum> Nearly all organic
2023-06-08T20:11:12 < machinehum> Just because catGPT is hype
2023-06-08T20:11:13 < machinehum> meow
2023-06-08T20:11:15 < Steffanx> Did you steal my idea here machinehum 😝
2023-06-08T20:11:20 < machinehum> Steffanx: Yes
2023-06-08T20:11:24 < Steffanx> Haha good.
2023-06-08T20:11:28 < machinehum> And the people love it
2023-06-08T20:11:36 < Steffanx> I'll retwat
2023-06-08T20:11:37 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/@md_builds
2023-06-08T20:11:42 < machinehum> Much more than the retarded finger licking method
2023-06-08T20:11:50 < machinehum> But that was supposed to be dumb
2023-06-08T20:12:52 < Mangy_Dog> though thanks to hackadays recent post about the tricorder... i did make 50 quid off youtube :p
2023-06-08T20:12:56 < machinehum> Mangy_Dog: Did you sell those?
2023-06-08T20:12:59 < Mangy_Dog> which is nothing to sniff at
2023-06-08T20:13:04 < Mangy_Dog> sort of yes
2023-06-08T20:13:08 < Mangy_Dog> limited runs
2023-06-08T20:13:58 < machinehum> Nice
2023-06-08T20:14:05 < Mangy_Dog> ive pretty much finsihed the last run... gonna do another run next year some time
2023-06-08T20:14:09 < Mangy_Dog> takes about a yeayr to do a run though
2023-06-08T20:14:11 < Mangy_Dog> soooooo
2023-06-08T20:14:20 < Mangy_Dog> theyre not cheap
2023-06-08T20:14:30 < machinehum> My content is just lead magnets, trying to find clients, and it works
2023-06-08T20:14:40 < machinehum> How much you sell those for?
2023-06-08T20:14:47 < Mangy_Dog> and ive been through a lot lately... and about to go through more hell which is obviousely disrupting everything
2023-06-08T20:14:57 < machinehum> Shit...
2023-06-08T20:15:07 < Mangy_Dog> last batch was £1500 next will be £2000
2023-06-08T20:15:11 < Mangy_Dog> each
2023-06-08T20:15:28 < Mangy_Dog> i probebly wont do another run after that
2023-06-08T20:15:31 < machinehum> O.o
2023-06-08T20:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> its ok it seems liek a lot... but for all the work that goes into them. I dont make minimum wage :p
2023-06-08T20:16:35 < Mangy_Dog> but also thats the replica props market for you
2023-06-08T20:16:59 < machinehum> For sure
2023-06-08T20:17:40 < Mangy_Dog> im actually looking to slightly simplify the physical build design a little
2023-06-08T20:17:56 < Mangy_Dog> still trying to figure out how to piggy back serial over 3.3v or 5v power
2023-06-08T20:17:57 < Mangy_Dog> dv
2023-06-08T20:17:58 < Mangy_Dog> dc
2023-06-08T20:18:12 < Mangy_Dog> so i dont have to hand make the custom split brass hinges
2023-06-08T20:18:20 < Mangy_Dog> and just use off the shelf ones
2023-06-08T20:18:29 < Mangy_Dog> would save me a ton of work
2023-06-08T20:19:05 < machinehum> You run power over the hinges?
2023-06-08T20:19:26 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-06-08T20:19:28 < Mangy_Dog> and serial currently
2023-06-08T20:19:30 < Mangy_Dog> uart
2023-06-08T20:19:33 < Mangy_Dog> 4 lines
2023-06-08T20:19:45 < machinehum> What are the lines?
2023-06-08T20:19:53 < Mangy_Dog> tx rx?
2023-06-08T20:19:58 < machinehum> other two
2023-06-08T20:19:59 < Mangy_Dog> 3.3v and gnd
2023-06-08T20:20:12 < Mangy_Dog> powers and talks to the micro in the door
2023-06-08T20:20:15 < Mangy_Dog> which runs its leds
2023-06-08T20:20:15 < machinehum> Oh you run serial over the hinges as welllll
2023-06-08T20:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-06-08T20:20:28 < machinehum> cray
2023-06-08T20:20:30 < Mangy_Dog> i need a way to send the led data and cap touch data
2023-06-08T20:20:46 < Mangy_Dog> between the two halves
2023-06-08T20:21:33 < machinehum> There's another mcu takes series, does leds and shit?
2023-06-08T20:24:02 < Mangy_Dog> yeah main mcu running the main program and display.... stm32f103cb, in the door just got a C6 in there. All it does is reads led data being sent to it and displays leds, and returns cap touch button status
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2023-06-08T21:43:15 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: maybe using jack TRRS for hinges?
2023-06-08T21:43:38 < Mangy_Dog> sadly no
2023-06-08T21:44:12 < qyx> impossible to do mechanically?
2023-06-08T21:44:28 < qyx> or a rolled FFC
2023-06-08T21:44:48 < Mangy_Dog> if anything all that makes it more complex
2023-06-08T21:45:00 < Mangy_Dog> gettingserial over power it would be better
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2023-06-08T23:07:04 < Laurence_b> lol why did I read reddit lmao
2023-06-08T23:07:15 < Laurence_b> absolute groupthink
2023-06-08T23:14:38 < mawk> unlike /pol/
2023-06-08T23:14:40 < Steffanx> ok Laurence_b
2023-06-08T23:15:23 < mawk> which sub did you visit Laurence_b, r/MidgetPorn ? 
2023-06-08T23:22:52 < Laurence_b> ukrainewar
2023-06-08T23:23:08 < Laurence_b> yes, back to pol I go
2023-06-08T23:27:00 < mawk> are you pro-rossiya?
2023-06-08T23:34:18 < Laurence_b> I'm neutral
2023-06-08T23:34:28 < Laurence_b> reddit is a massive pro ukraine cope
2023-06-08T23:39:39 < mawk> not on all subs
2023-06-08T23:40:07 < mawk> r/genzedong sucks CCP and russian cock with delectation all day long
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--- Day changed pe kesä 09 2023
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2023-06-09T00:07:19 < ColdKeyboard> Has anyone used a STM32 pre-programming service? I'm a bit surprised that STM is not offering that as value-add (at least not to us mortals)
2023-06-09T00:08:51 < zyp> is that worthwhile?
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2023-06-09T00:10:05 < zyp> if you're making something in a volume where pre-programming would make sense, you probably ought to have a fairly comprehensive test suite for your own hardware
2023-06-09T00:10:31 < zyp> and when you do, it's usually easy to incorporate programming as a step in the test sequence
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2023-06-09T00:18:10 < qyx> TIL avionics AC is 115 V 400 Hz
2023-06-09T00:19:05 < zyp> yeah, the GPUs makes a nice hum
2023-06-09T00:19:16 < zyp> or maybe you can call it whine
2023-06-09T00:20:13 < karlp> how did that come about anyway?
2023-06-09T00:21:18 < qyx> https://youtu.be/ZUeFwyicV8o?t=358
2023-06-09T00:22:14 < karlp> tjat
2023-06-09T00:22:22 < karlp> that just says "had already been standard for 50 years"
2023-06-09T00:22:44 < karlp> anywya, internet just says "smaller transformers, didn't care about transmission line and switching losses over short runs, do it all custom..."
2023-06-09T00:22:47 < karlp> good enough for me.
2023-06-09T00:30:31 < BrainDamage> yeah smaller transformers and a better ratio for the alternators when strapped to the engines
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2023-06-09T12:57:17 < catphish> Design question: is there any good reason not to connect an LED between a +5V supply and a STM32 FT GPIO configured as open drain?
2023-06-09T12:58:39 < catphish> I want to blink a blue and a green LED, but these are 3V LEDs, so i don't know if i can reliably calculate their current draw if i use a 3v3 rail, but it seems to me that i can just use a 5V rail instead. Is there any reason not to do so?
2023-06-09T12:59:04 < zyp> it's fine
2023-06-09T13:00:20 < catphish> Someone was trying to argue that it's not a good idea to actually leave FT pins blocking 5v persistently, so i wanted to confirm
2023-06-09T13:00:24 < zyp> the only gotcha with FT pins is that they're only rated for Vdd+4V, so 5V on a FT pin with Vdd unpowered could be problematic
2023-06-09T13:00:55 < catphish> noted.
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2023-06-09T13:11:53 < qyx> I am using blue and white LEDs on 3V3 just fine
2023-06-09T13:12:05 < qyx> with 1k resistors they are pretty bright
2023-06-09T13:14:07 < zyp> InGaN green is still plenty bright at 3.3V with 10k resistors
2023-06-09T13:14:07 < catphish> well that makes things easy then, i was thinking i'd have to use more like 100R resistors to get useful current
2023-06-09T13:14:37 < zyp> catphish, have you used a modern LED yet?
2023-06-09T13:14:54 < catphish> yes, they always seem bright AF
2023-06-09T13:15:03 < zyp> useful current for InGaN green is like 100uA or so
2023-06-09T13:15:05 < catphish> i'm probably using them excessively
2023-06-09T13:15:37 < zyp> hang on, let me pull up a couple of fun datasheets
2023-06-09T13:15:48 < catphish> this is the blue i'm using https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1811101510_Everlight-Elec-19-217-BHC-ZL1M2RY-3T_C72041.pdf
2023-06-09T13:17:54 < catphish> at 1k is's going to draw less than 1mA but as long as it's visible i don't care that much
2023-06-09T13:18:03 < zyp> catphish, compare these two: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603C1_C84264.pdf https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603G1_C84267.pdf
2023-06-09T13:18:30 < zyp> they're both green, but one is AlGaInP and one is InGaN
2023-06-09T13:19:05 < catphish> they both show no light at < 1mA
2023-06-09T13:19:10 < zyp> look at the mcd rating
2023-06-09T13:19:53 < catphish> oh wow
2023-06-09T13:19:57 < catphish> that's quite an improvement
2023-06-09T13:20:48 < zyp> exactly, that's why you can't just expect to drive it at the max rated current anymore
2023-06-09T13:22:23 < zyp> I think InGaN blue is significantly less bright than green at the same current though, so I'm not sure what current is appropriate for blue
2023-06-09T13:22:34 < zyp> I advise testing in practice before deciding
2023-06-09T13:23:42 < catphish> well this is quite a lazy design: https://i.imgur.com/EY3IfB4.png
2023-06-09T13:23:42 < catphish> but it gives the InGaN LEDs quite a small current and the AlGaInP ones a bit more
2023-06-09T13:23:42 < catphish> the actual brightnesses and currents will be a bit arbitrary, but i really don't want to have to care this much, they're just status indicators
2023-06-09T13:24:11 < zyp> hmm, your LED have a rather low mcd rating, compared to e.g. the blue variant of the ones above: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603B1_C84266.pdf
2023-06-09T13:25:14 < catphish> so it does
2023-06-09T13:25:24 < zyp> sure they're status indicators, but they're not useful status indicators if they hurt to look at or one gets so bright that it keeps you from discerning any of the others
2023-06-09T13:26:07 < zyp> also, if you don't want to worry about this shit, use addressable LEDs with internal PWM drivers and just set them at the brightness you like
2023-06-09T13:26:09 < catphish> indeed
2023-06-09T13:26:18 < zyp> I like SK6805-EC15 for indicators
2023-06-09T13:29:03 < zyp> orbtrace uses those, my testrack thing uses those
2023-06-09T13:29:05 < zyp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1100512450551492748/IMG_20230425_220302.jpg
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2023-06-09T13:32:46 < catphish> i just realised i already use this same LED on another board with a 3v3 supply and 220R resistor and it works great
2023-06-09T13:32:57 < catphish> so i'll do that and go back to sleep
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2023-06-09T16:14:24 < karlp> I think I need to throw out these old leds I dug out of the cupboard, they're pretty fucking dim with 1k at 3.3 and 5v.
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2023-06-09T17:06:44 < mawk> well 1k is kinda low current
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2023-06-09T17:39:23 < Steffanx> And still modern LEDs are bright as the sun 
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2023-06-09T17:45:23 < karlp> meh, all these old through hole ones I dug up to have on teh board for testing are dim with 1k.
2023-06-09T18:06:31 < catphish> i have another question, sorry to be a leech today.
2023-06-09T18:06:31 < catphish> i'm trying to convert JLC's manufacturing capabilities to kicad values. what so they mean by "minimum annular ring" vs "pth" under "Minimum Annular Ring"?
2023-06-09T18:06:31 < catphish> https://jlcpcb.com/capabilities/pcb-capabilities
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2023-06-09T18:07:28 < catphish> i thought i knew what an annular ring is, and what PTH is, but i can't understand what they mean by those different columns
2023-06-09T18:08:53 < catphish> actually it probably doesn't matter because they're super explicit elsewhere about via sizes ayway which is the only reason i'd want a small hole
2023-06-09T18:12:52 < catphish> oh PTH is just the hole size
2023-06-09T18:12:55 < catphish> (i think)
2023-06-09T18:14:48 < jpa-> yeah, i'd say it is the minimum hole that you can actually put a wire through
2023-06-09T18:15:08 < jpa-> the smallest vias tend to get partially filled in plating
2023-06-09T18:20:58 < catphish> 0.3 is also the smallest via drill size usually
2023-06-09T18:21:25 < catphish> though you can go smaller on vias if you pay
2023-06-09T18:34:35 < catphish> think i'm done with my new flight controller design: http://nutty.tk/flight-controller.pdf
2023-06-09T18:34:44 < catphish> it's actually an AT32 :o
2023-06-09T18:36:11 < catphish> it's not even a complicated design, but it's taken me a week because people kept sticking their ideas in
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2023-06-09T21:22:39 < boddax> trying to read from ads1115 with f466re nucleo but even i put 5v on single channel  ch0 with stm studio returns 5v reading all over 4 channels https://pastebin.com/Y0QXQ6Wj
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2023-06-09T22:29:47 < qyx> so you have your channels configured wrongly
2023-06-09T22:33:26 < qyx> jpa-: when you run your PIC functions, how do you handle resolving symbols in the main executable?
2023-06-09T22:33:49 < qyx> or your function is so pure that it doesn't call anything?
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2023-06-10T02:55:46 < karlp> you didn't even want to ask any of us zyp?
2023-06-10T03:09:16 < zyp> about what? the shift registers?
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2023-06-10T03:20:04 < karlp> yeah :)
2023-06-10T03:20:06 < karlp> just teasing.
2023-06-10T03:21:32 < karlp> not like I have any ideas or anything...
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2023-06-10T03:29:06 < karlp> zyp: my login for bin.jvnv.net is gone?
2023-06-10T03:29:38 < karlp> (I'm trying a password reset, but not sure why it would have stopped working from whatI had saved)
2023-06-10T03:29:51 < zyp> shouldn't be
2023-06-10T03:31:44 < karlp> hrm, password reset didn't do anything either.
2023-06-10T03:32:03 < karlp> ahhah! 
2023-06-10T03:32:14 < karlp> I must hav eused my work computer to update my email and kept the password
2023-06-10T03:33:30 < karlp> was goign to upload frrom the phone, but it didn't have the password, so... https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/saE4zJLrWdkkXfz
2023-06-10T03:33:36 < karlp> yay, matter demo.
2023-06-10T03:34:03 < karlp> don't blame me for the matter example demo not actually having the _lock_ be the lock, and the light be the lock instead.
2023-06-10T03:34:38 < karlp> no idea who fucked up there, chip/matter enginj2eeeers or homeassistant dweebs.
2023-06-10T03:34:51 < karlp> but one of them has, that's for sure.
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2023-06-10T04:06:35 < ColdKeyboard> So a werid question maybe; If I need to create a relatively cheap but still reliable bus for ~20 devices (master-slave architecture). And they are all going to be daisy-chained, probably over ~5m cable in total and that cable might be picking up some noise from the environment. What should I look at for the BUS? CAN seems too expensive. LIN seem very application specific and limited... Should 
2023-06-10T04:06:35 < ColdKeyboard> I look at RS-485 and implement a custom protocol? Maybe 1-Wire? Or something else?
2023-06-10T04:06:49 < ColdKeyboard> Any suggestions, thoughts or experiences to share on this? :)
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2023-06-10T08:52:59 < jpa-> qyx: function pointers as arguments, if really needed
2023-06-10T08:53:29 < jpa-> it was more of a hack than a fully covering implementation
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2023-06-10T13:34:20 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, hardware-wise, CAN and RS485 is not all that different
2023-06-10T13:34:53 < zyp> they both need a similar transceiver, main difference is whether you drive it with a UART or a CAN peripheral
2023-06-10T13:35:36 < zyp> if your device is gonna contain a middle end MCU anyway, you likely have a CAN peripheral
2023-06-10T13:36:02 < zyp> but even a lowend MCU can do RS485
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2023-06-10T14:53:13 < Laurence_b> F eagle
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2023-06-10T14:58:39 < PaulFertser> I even saw a mass-produced energy meter which claimed support for CAN but was actually using a CAN PHY attached to UART.
2023-06-10T14:59:03 < Laurence_b> https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/pride-flag-borrowash-torn-down-8499460
2023-06-10T14:59:50 < Laurence_b> wasnt me
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2023-06-10T16:06:24 < Laurence_b> does anyone know if through bulkhead duplex toslink connectors exist?
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2023-06-10T16:42:58 < catphish> silly question: does STM32 support level triggered interrupts? i only see edge triggering in the manual :(
2023-06-10T16:44:10 < catphish> now that i've thought about it, i'm happy polling the level, but seems like an odd omission, unless i'm missing something
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2023-06-10T16:59:34 < PaulFertser> catphish: at least back in the F1 days the EXTI controller (used for GPIOs, USB, Ethernet) had only edge detectors. NVIC itself is a different story.
2023-06-10T17:00:34 < catphish> i know nothing about NVIC :(
2023-06-10T17:01:09 < mawk> you can start a task on rising edge and stop it on falling edge
2023-06-10T17:01:20 < mawk> if you want to emulate level interrupts 
2023-06-10T17:01:28 < PaulFertser> catphish: it's the interrupt controller that's kind of part of the core, not specific to ST.
2023-06-10T17:01:51 < PaulFertser> catphish: EXTI is connected to NVIC.
2023-06-10T17:02:06 < catphish> is the NVIC connected to the GPIO though?
2023-06-10T17:02:24 < mawk> through the EXTI interrupt
2023-06-10T17:10:15 < PaulFertser> Yep
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2023-06-10T17:11:59 < catphish> but EXTI only supports edge detection?
2023-06-10T17:12:07 < catphish> or am i misunderstanding here?
2023-06-10T17:12:49 < catphish> or can it just pass through the level?
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2023-06-10T17:37:08 < PaulFertser> catphish: yes, EXTI supports only edge detection, so you essentially can have only edge detection for GPIOs on STM32, do not get confused with NVIC documentation.
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2023-06-10T20:20:25 < catphish> PaulFertser: thanks, that was my interpretation, but i wanted to confirm, because i assumed that level based interrupts would be a super common requirement, lots of hardware has a "message waiting" indicator, and you want to run an interrupt any time it's set
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2023-06-10T21:04:48 < PaulFertser> catphish: yeah, I was surprised too
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2023-06-10T22:07:37 < jpa-> catphish: you can kind-of fake level triggered interrupts by using a timer enable input
2023-06-10T22:07:50 < jpa-> (with timer period of 2 clock cycles)
2023-06-10T22:08:34 < jpa-> i haven't really seen a case where you'd need level sensitive interrupts though
2023-06-10T22:09:04 < jpa-> you can always just check the level in the interrupt after clearing the interrupt flag, that avoids race conditions
2023-06-10T22:22:45 < mawk> you can start a task in the raising edge and stop in the falling edge
2023-06-10T22:22:48 < mawk> if using a rtos
2023-06-10T22:22:49 < mawk> and the task is doing a for(;;) loop or whatever
2023-06-10T22:22:51 < mawk> because I suppose you don't want to starve the other tasks if you have your level code repeatedly called
2023-06-10T22:25:13 < qyx> can pros, what usb-can adapter is cool now?
2023-06-10T22:25:22 < qyx> except orbtrace
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2023-06-10T22:26:12 < jpa-> orbtrace does can now?
2023-06-10T22:26:27 < Steffanx> tomorrow it can
2023-06-10T22:27:12 < zyp> news to me
2023-06-10T22:27:23 < qyx> I guess it can do everything as Steffanx says
2023-06-10T22:27:34 < qyx> but I have a stlink v3 handy
2023-06-10T22:27:41 < qyx> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stlink-v3-bridge.html
2023-06-10T22:27:57 -!- Posterdati [~Posterdat@user/Posterdati] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2023-06-10T22:28:20 < qyx> On the host PC, the bridge API source files rely on the STLinkUSBDriver.dll on Windows®, STLinkUSBDriver.so on Linux®, and STLinkUSBDriver.dylib on macOS
2023-06-10T22:28:24 < qyx> ok you can f... right off
2023-06-10T22:28:52 < qyx> are we in 2000 loading custom shared libraries in userspace to communicate with stuff
2023-06-10T22:29:27 < qyx> User-friendly ULTIMATE LIBERTY license agreement
2023-06-10T22:29:42 < jpa-> you expected libusb?
2023-06-10T22:30:15 < qyx> I kinda expected getting a can0 interface
2023-06-10T22:30:25 < zyp> I might do a FD-CAN FPGA core at some point for the industrial shit I'm playing with, and when I do, it'll port easily to the orbtrace too if you want
2023-06-10T22:30:36 < jpa-> luls, that sounds like some linux stuff
2023-06-10T22:31:05 < qyx> and anything equivalent on the windows side of course
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2023-06-10T22:32:53 < zyp> I started designing the IO stuff for the fanuc today, here's the encoder interface: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1117164900918239374/image.png
2023-06-10T22:33:25 < zyp> bit overkill transceivers, but they look nice
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--- Day changed su kesä 11 2023
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2023-06-11T01:01:31 < nomorekaki> early +1 hello
2023-06-11T01:01:50 < nomorekaki> early+1
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2023-06-11T01:12:06 < Laurence_b> RIP unabomber
2023-06-11T01:12:07 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2023-06-11T01:16:03 < nomorekaki> indeed
2023-06-11T01:27:04 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnlDRWpWNFdZQTBZQ016LnBuZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxsJmZvcm1hdD13ZWJw
2023-06-11T01:28:31 < nomorekaki> how is your hyperpride going Laurence_b?
2023-06-11T01:30:59 < Laurence_b> hyperboss sacked quite a lot of staff
2023-06-11T01:31:05 < Laurence_b> but I got a 10% pay rise
2023-06-11T01:31:38 < Laurence_b> apparently finance is tight
2023-06-11T01:31:55 < nomorekaki> but you got the grant 10M right?
2023-06-11T01:32:20 < nomorekaki> the woke grant
2023-06-11T01:34:06 < nomorekaki> any estimates how much company is burning cash per month?
2023-06-11T01:34:22 < Laurence_b> prob about 250k
2023-06-11T01:35:07 < Laurence_b> we are planning to put the motors onto a next gen TGV prototype, that should make some money
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2023-06-11T01:48:04 < nomorekaki> this new Arnold documentary series is pretty good
2023-06-11T01:48:22 < nomorekaki> not really interested about bodybuilding
2023-06-11T01:55:09 < nomorekaki> very inspirational guy that Arnold guy
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2023-06-11T10:47:32 < jdw> Zyp, I'm in Norway on a business trip. Will stay in Oslo. Recommend doing anything in particular in my free time?
2023-06-11T10:53:51 < jdw> This thing might disconnect. Please answer anyway, I'll check the logs later today.
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2023-06-11T10:55:52 < Steffanx> jdw go for a walk to zp. It's only a 2.5 day walk :)
2023-06-11T10:56:59 < jdw> Steffanx, I would have liked that but I don't know if my schedule would allow it :)
2023-06-11T10:57:28 < jdw> Very nice country so far.
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2023-06-11T11:35:51 < catphish> jpa-: thanks, as long as that process works, that should do the job, i always just felt that a level triggered interrupt was more robust
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2023-06-11T13:14:32 < zyp> jadew, nice -- you should have been here a week earlier; I were in Oslo last weekend :)
2023-06-11T13:20:19 < zyp> not sure about anything particular to do, typical tourist places are the opera roof and the frogner park if you like that sort of stuff
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2023-06-11T18:51:00 < qyx> what is jadew doing so much in the north
2023-06-11T18:51:29 < Steffanx> Business apparently 
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2023-06-11T19:15:22 < catphish> i enjoy that this mystery part exists: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Attitude-Sensor-Gyroscope_STMicroelectronics-LSM6DSDTR_C472550.html
2023-06-11T19:15:59 < catphish> i'd love to know what it is, it has no datasheet, ST say it doesn't officially exist
2023-06-11T19:18:30 < Steffanx> They say it exists, but not for the open market.
2023-06-11T19:18:39 < Steffanx> And they won't share a datasheet 
2023-06-11T19:18:59 < catphish> so that's it doing listed on LCSC?
2023-06-11T19:20:17 < catphish> the part i actually want is LSM6DSR but it's out of stock, hopefully it'll reappear
2023-06-11T19:23:19 < catphish> though the LSM6DSO should work near enough  the same
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2023-06-11T20:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> maybe its an exclusive part for apple: p
2023-06-11T20:30:52 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2023-06-11T20:41:51 < catphish> i suppose it makes sense to have undocumented parts in the general supply chain as spare parts
2023-06-11T20:45:44 < catphish> general electronics question: i want "literally any diode" that can carry a couple of amps for polarity protection, but i want it as small as possoble, what should i be looking at? schotkeys that can carry more than 1A seem to suddenly get very large
2023-06-11T20:47:26 < specing> maybe some FET that has its gate wired to input?
2023-06-11T20:47:47 < specing> and/or diode+FET combo?
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2023-06-11T21:17:24 < catphish> *nod*
2023-06-11T21:18:19 < catphish> i just want something i can put between my USB VBUS and my board 5v rail, even though it's totally overkill, i'd like to put s 2A part in there
2023-06-11T21:19:01 < jdw> Zyp, yeah, would have been nice to meet up. I'm staying right next to the opera so, I guess that objective is done. I was surprised to see people sunbathing AND swimming in this weather.
2023-06-11T21:19:41 < jdw> It's not bad, but it's nowhere near swimming temperature by Romanian standards.
2023-06-11T21:20:11 < jpa-> catphish: the mosfet polarity protector is the standard answer for that question
2023-06-11T21:20:40 < zyp> jdw, so what brings you to norway and how long are you staying?
2023-06-11T21:20:52 < catphish> i guess in this case it's not "polarity protection" at all, but does the same thing apply?
2023-06-11T21:21:11 < jpa-> catphish: so if it is not polarity protection, *what* is the diode for?
2023-06-11T21:21:54 < jdw> Zyp, I started working for a Norwegian company and they wanted to meet me. I'll be here until Saturday (inclusive).
2023-06-11T21:22:09 < catphish> i realised after i asked, this specific case it mildly different, i want to put a diode between VBUS and my +5v rail so that USB can power my board, but my SMPS doesn't back-feed the USB host
2023-06-11T21:22:26 < zyp> ah, cool, anything I've heard about?
2023-06-11T21:22:43 < zyp> the company, I mean
2023-06-11T21:22:44 < jpa-> catphish: ok, the mosfet solution doesn't work for that
2023-06-11T21:23:10 < jpa-> catphish: just stick your required current etc. ratings in digikey/mouser search and pick the smallest schottky that can handle it
2023-06-11T21:23:13 < jdw> Nah, it's not electronics related, nor particularly big. Just started expanding and they're putting together a programming team.
2023-06-11T21:23:16 < catphish> jpa-: thanks, i realised after i asked that i was being an idiot and it's not the same thing
2023-06-11T21:23:25 < catphish> *nod* thanks
2023-06-11T21:24:25 < zyp> jdw, what sort of stuff do they do?
2023-06-11T21:24:41 < jdw> Accounting
2023-06-11T21:25:06 < jpa-> in the category of "world makes a better idiot": the mosfet polarity protector also doesn't protect if someone plugs in an AC power supply :)
2023-06-11T21:25:31 < jpa-> though it is more likely to fry out the power supply rather than the device, so i guess it half-works
2023-06-11T21:32:02 < zyp>  just fit a beefy enough crowbar :)
2023-06-11T21:32:07 < catphish> why wouldn't it protect against an AC supply?
2023-06-11T21:32:22 < catphish> unless you mean 230V :)
2023-06-11T21:34:18 < qyx> interested too
2023-06-11T21:35:06 < qyx> with proper design it could even protect against 230 Vac
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2023-06-11T21:39:53 < jpa-> because once the positive half-cycle charges your capacitors, the MOSFET sees positive voltage between its gate and source and conducts
2023-06-11T21:40:28 < jpa-> sure, it'll stop before the voltage over decoupling caps goes negative, but might give an interesting amount of ripple current through your decoupling caps
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2023-06-11T21:49:30 < qyx> hm yeah
2023-06-11T21:50:00 < qyx> karlp: re your vacuum cleaner issue, that's insane, the whole control electronics is in the battery itself
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2023-06-11T21:50:24 < qyx> maybe that is the reason the battery price is comparable to the whole thing
2023-06-11T21:50:26 < zyp> control for what?
2023-06-11T21:50:49 < qyx> charging/discharging, motor control, LEDs, bottom brush motor control
2023-06-11T21:51:12 < qyx> the only thing in the cleaner body is the motor and a tact button to power it on/off
2023-06-11T21:51:16 < zyp> ah, like some ebikes do
2023-06-11T21:51:34 < qyx> I guess in the brush there are exactly two things. a motor a some LEDs
2023-06-11T21:52:07 < qyx> wire from the on/off switch goes to a terminal on the battery
2023-06-11T21:53:13 < zyp> doesn't seem too silly; putting all the electronics in one place probably makes it cheaper to make, and if you're gonna put a BMS in the battery anyway, you might as well integrate the rest with it
2023-06-11T21:57:45 < qyx> from the manufacturing pov, no
2023-06-11T21:58:02 < qyx> but hey, the battery is a consumable, from all other pov it is a bs
2023-06-11T21:58:32 < qyx> now the battery died, I am not gonna buy a new one
2023-06-11T21:58:45 < qyx> that's exactly what the manufacturer wants
2023-06-11T21:59:07 < qyx> but it is not how a proper tool should be made
2023-06-11T21:59:37 < zyp> I'm not sure I'd expect the rest to be built to last longer than the battery anyway
2023-06-11T22:00:13 < qyx> I would say even the battery should last longer than 2 years
2023-06-11T22:00:28 < qyx> it died just after 2 years passed
2023-06-11T22:00:43 < qyx> I would say it was charged maybe 50 times
2023-06-11T22:01:12 < qyx> nah
2023-06-11T22:01:14 < zyp> doesn't make sense to optimize for battery replacement if almost everybody throws it away and replaces it with a new product anyway
2023-06-11T22:01:27 < zyp> that's how I feel about phones too
2023-06-11T22:01:52 < zyp> by the time my phone battery goes bad, the rest of the phone is also so obsolete it's due for replacement anyway
2023-06-11T22:01:52 < qyx> I don't, my phone has 16 years and still working :P
2023-06-11T22:01:56 < qyx> on a third battery though
2023-06-11T22:02:17 < zyp> I wouldn't want to use a 16 year old phone :)
2023-06-11T22:02:33 < qyx> it is great, it does exactly what it should do
2023-06-11T22:02:42 < qyx> connects to a network, it is able to call, send/receive sms
2023-06-11T22:02:46 < zyp> I mean, what amount of todays base stations does it even connect to?
2023-06-11T22:02:53 < qyx> all here
2023-06-11T22:03:10 < qyx> 2G still works in most of the world
2023-06-11T22:03:12 < qyx> 3G not
2023-06-11T22:03:18 < qyx> *most parts
2023-06-11T22:04:02 < qyx> nyway, I am a sad panda now
2023-06-11T22:04:16 < qyx> I'll try to replace the cells, one is shorted
2023-06-11T22:04:16 < zyp> yeah, 3G was shut down in 2021 here, 2G is due for shutdown in 2025 and is mostly kept alive for old M2M systems
2023-06-11T22:10:45 < catphish> jpa-: followup qustion? can i just use the body diode of a MOSFET in my application? because a mosfet with a 2A body diode, like AO3401A is much smaller and cheaper than general purpose 1A diodes
2023-06-11T22:11:06 < catphish> and if so, why don't they sell that diode on its own? or am i just not looking hard enugh here?
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2023-06-11T22:29:46 < catphish> yes, i'm just not looking hard enough, 2A schotkeys definitely exist in smaller packages like SOD323
2023-06-11T22:32:59 < zyp> doing IO modules for the replacement fanuc controller: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/I6Jrn.png
2023-06-11T22:34:29 < zyp> those are output buffers for the PWM signals to the servo amplifier and ADCs for the current feedback
2023-06-11T22:34:37  * qyx programming
2023-06-11T22:34:40 < qyx>  2 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 173 deletions(-)
2023-06-11T22:34:48 < zyp> love those days
2023-06-11T22:35:06 < zyp> no better way to improve a codebase than removing cruft
2023-06-11T22:35:31 < zyp> I need a 5V VDDA rail for those ADCs
2023-06-11T22:36:11 < zyp> I have a 5V rail already, ±15V rails that I figure are the original rails, and two 24V rails
2023-06-11T22:36:31 < qyx> I hate 5V VDDA ADCs
2023-06-11T22:36:38 < zyp> ±15V being the analog rails for the original controller, I mean
2023-06-11T22:36:48 < zyp> why?
2023-06-11T22:37:12 < zyp> I picked these on purpose because they can do like ±12V in
2023-06-11T22:37:12 < qyx> because usually the first level vreg is whatever->5V
2023-06-11T22:37:41 < qyx> and if 5V ADCs are to be used, I need to be creative with that
2023-06-11T22:37:50 < qyx> usually raising it to 5V2 or so
2023-06-11T22:37:59 < zyp> I'm not sure what the range of the signals I've got are, but with ±15V rails I expect a ±12V ADC to handle whatever it is
2023-06-11T22:38:10 < zyp> yeah
2023-06-11T22:38:22 < qyx> because most of the point-of-load vregs are 5V5 max
2023-06-11T22:39:07 < zyp> so what I'm thinking is that I don't want to just use the existing 5V rails, I want to maybe throw in a linear reg from the +15V or something
2023-06-11T22:40:04 < qyx> lm7805 to the rescue
2023-06-11T22:41:43 < zyp> datasheet says ADC pulls 6.75mA max, so that's 81mA across the 12 ADCs
2023-06-11T22:41:59 < zyp> I should look up what my power supply is rated for
2023-06-11T22:42:27 < qyx> that's pretty much
2023-06-11T22:42:30 < qyx> nearly 1 W
2023-06-11T22:42:54 < qyx> of thermal dissipation
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2023-06-11T22:43:27 < zyp> hmm, +15V rail is rated for 5A total
2023-06-11T22:43:58 < zyp> 0.5A total, I mean
2023-06-11T22:44:46 < zyp> but I'm not sure how the power budget for that looks, servo amplifier is also using those rails
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2023-06-11T22:50:51 < qyx>  2 files changed, 25 insertions(+), 275 deletions(-)
2023-06-11T22:50:54 < qyx> progressing slowly
2023-06-11T22:52:37 < zyp> let's see if there's a karlp-approved 1117 that fits the bill
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2023-06-11T22:57:55 < zyp> uh, the RthJA figures suggests I risk exceeding the 125°C max junction temperatures if I'm pulling 81mA across a 10V drop
2023-06-11T22:59:13 < qyx> did you consider a beefy lm7805 as I suggested?
2023-06-11T22:59:48 < zyp> then again, those are worst case numbers with the ADC running at 500kSPS, not sure how realistic those numbers are
2023-06-11T23:00:50 < zyp> I mean, I don't think I can even run the SPI interface fast enough to pull out the data that fast when I've got 12 of them daisy chained
2023-06-11T23:06:29 < zyp> let's see, there's 32 bits, per ADC at max 66.67 MHz, so that's 480ns per ADC
2023-06-11T23:07:01 < zyp> minimum conversion and acquisition is 1000ns each respectively, so I can't daisy chain more than two and run at max speed
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2023-06-11T23:07:57 < zyp> 12 chained leaves me a bit under 150kSPS total
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2023-06-11T23:08:45 < zyp> although I've considered doing two chains, that'd give me 257kSPS
2023-06-11T23:08:55 < zyp> either way I won't be running it at more than half rate
2023-06-11T23:09:54 < zyp> so… I'll probably be fine…
2023-06-11T23:10:06 < zyp> and it's a one off so I can bodge it if not :)
2023-06-11T23:18:31 < zyp> but yeah, maybe a to263 is a better option than a sot223
2023-06-11T23:21:56 < tct> meow
2023-06-11T23:22:57 < specing> catphish: what if you used a power supply plug that shorts a "plug connected" switch before the 5V surface makes contact?
2023-06-11T23:23:45 < specing> this plug connected switch could be wired to a fet betwen USB 5V and your board
2023-06-11T23:24:13 < catphish> specing: a reasonable option, but mechanical solutons aren't going to work on this particular project
2023-06-11T23:25:13 < specing> catphish: could also use a >>5V supply and detect voltage being above USB rating
2023-06-11T23:25:30 < qyx> tct: are you recording yet
2023-06-11T23:26:17 < qyx> specing: mechanical protections don't work for engineers
2023-06-11T23:30:38 < tct> qyx, on two audio interfaces!!!111eleven
2023-06-11T23:30:52 < qyx> \o/
--- Day changed ma kesä 12 2023
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2023-06-12T01:10:59 < karlp> qyx: that vaccum I talked about was.... well over a year ago? what brought that uyp now?
2023-06-12T01:11:18 < zyp> qyx' vacuum's battery died now
2023-06-12T01:11:39 < zyp> so you two are now the broken vacuum club
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2023-06-12T02:06:40 < qyx> TIL python forked Process() cannot assign parent's data
2023-06-12T02:06:49 < qyx> quite obvious
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2023-06-12T09:41:30 < jpa-> catphish: body diodes of MOSFETs have rather high forward voltage, but other than that, yeah
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2023-06-12T11:24:10 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRnhuajVGbFd3QUF1X0owLnBuZw==
2023-06-12T11:30:21 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRnFoZ3RrcFdJQUlNdzJlLnBuZw==
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2023-06-12T16:15:00 < karlp> better include these nerds too!
2023-06-12T16:15:33 < karlp> if anyone's interested in getting their ahnds on one of these: https://www.calmet.com.pl/en/power-calibrators-and-power-quality-calibrators/164-cp11b-power-calibrator-and-protection-relay-test-set (0.05% version) we have one for sale, shipping out of iceland.
2023-06-12T16:16:08 < karlp> cost about 10k€ ~5 years ago or something. 
2023-06-12T16:16:31 < karlp> current price idea is ~3k, but email kg@etactica.com and haggle if you like.
2023-06-12T16:18:22 < karlp> we also have a sealed reel of 1000 pieces of atm90e32, direct from microchip, those run ~$3 each, we can let go for ~$1 each, but make an offer if that's interesting.
2023-06-12T16:19:13 < karlp> finally, about 25 boxes of phoenix BCH-350H-4 (3.5mm horiztonal 4P euro plug sockets)  100 per box, would be looking at ~40 per box (50% discount on retail) ideally most or all of it...
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2023-06-12T18:37:03 < catphish> jpa-: thanks, yeah, i realised the power dissipation might become the limiting factor, in the end i just stuck a big SMA schotkey in there
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2023-06-12T19:28:14 < PhantomWork> Hi there, does anyone have a code example for IR transmission with schematics?
2023-06-12T19:28:41 < mawk> which protocol?
2023-06-12T19:28:57 < mawk> depending on the protocol some TIM peripherals support IR
2023-06-12T19:29:12 < mawk> but otherwise you can just "bitbang" it
2023-06-12T19:29:17 < mawk> start and stop a 40kHz timer 
2023-06-12T19:29:22 < mawk> or something like thatr
2023-06-12T19:29:23 < mawk> -r
2023-06-12T19:29:36 < PhantomWork> anything that I can send 3 bytes over a 38kHz carrier
2023-06-12T19:29:37 < mawk> and for the schemnatic well you just need an IR led
2023-06-12T19:30:02 < mawk> so NEC?
2023-06-12T19:30:51 < PhantomWork> some implementation uses a timer and loops back the uart tx into an external trigger, and use the PWM output gated to drive the led... but the stm32 documentation seems to say tx to led directly.. so I'm puzzled
2023-06-12T19:31:37 < mawk> where do you see the stm32 documentation saying that?
2023-06-12T19:31:46 < mawk> also like I mentioned some TIM peripherals have an IR mode 
2023-06-12T19:31:49 < mawk> maybe it's referring to that
2023-06-12T19:33:24 < PhantomWork> I forgot which AN it was in, but, well, they overly abstract from the hardware making the AN useless imo..
2023-06-12T19:33:41 < PhantomWork> on stm32f103
2023-06-12T19:33:43 < mawk> ah
2023-06-12T19:33:46 < mawk> is that your stm32?
2023-06-12T19:33:52 < PhantomWork> yeah
2023-06-12T19:33:53 < mawk> probably doesn't have the IR thing
2023-06-12T19:33:56 < mawk> it's so old
2023-06-12T19:34:00 < PhantomWork> it have irda on uart
2023-06-12T19:34:13 < mawk> yeah that's not what I mean
2023-06-12T19:34:54 < mawk> irda is different from NEC also no?
2023-06-12T19:35:03 < mawk> the NEC protocol is the simplest thing for live TV remotes 
2023-06-12T19:35:06 < mawk> at 38kHz
2023-06-12T19:35:07 < PhantomWork> yeah different
2023-06-12T19:35:22 < mawk> I just bitbang'd it when I used that
2023-06-12T19:35:33 < mawk> but my situation was slightly different I didn't have to make the 38kHz carrier
2023-06-12T19:40:21 < PhantomWork> I currently created a PWM and ANDed it, but I get Rx error, which I assume is due to a clocking issue due to the PWM that is not in sync with the uart
2023-06-12T19:41:00 < mawk> because you're using irda?
2023-06-12T19:41:08 < PhantomWork> plain uart
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2023-06-12T19:42:36 < PhantomWork> AN4834   is one of them
2023-06-12T19:42:37 < mawk> ah
2023-06-12T19:42:55 < mawk> I don't get your layout
2023-06-12T19:43:12 < mawk> you're receiving data from the uart and transmitting it back as IR?
2023-06-12T19:43:42 < mawk> AN4834 doesn't mention F1
2023-06-12T19:44:08 < PhantomWork> no, sending data between 2 µC via IR, using a timer to generate a 38kHz carrier, and AND it with the uart TX
2023-06-12T19:44:26 < mawk> ah
2023-06-12T19:44:32 < mawk> why is there a UART in the picture then?
2023-06-12T19:45:07 < PhantomWork> that is how I did it, only way I could find a way to do it...
2023-06-12T19:45:22 < mawk> right
2023-06-12T19:45:26 < mawk> how is the ANDing done?
2023-06-12T19:45:44 < mawk> also in the RX error interrupt you can get the status register to maybe know what's the precise error
2023-06-12T19:46:17 < PhantomWork> done with fets
2023-06-12T19:46:51 < PhantomWork> the error is data corruption, which do not cause a framing error or anything...
2023-06-12T19:50:46 < PhantomWork> bbs, food time
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2023-06-12T21:31:02 < jpa-> somehow the way how google authenticator is trying to make me backup codes into cloud seems like reducing 2FA back to 2x1FA
2023-06-12T21:59:37 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2023-06-12T21:59:56 < ventYl> all your factors are belong to us!
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2023-06-12T22:09:04 < englishman> i just keep those codes in keepass and use autotype so its just 1x1FA with the same number of steps
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2023-06-12T22:31:32 < ventYl> keep ass
2023-06-12T23:19:02 < Steffanx> keep ass XC is good though.
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2023-06-12T23:36:18 < karlp> it's ok, 2fa as long as both are just sms's to the same phone....
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--- Day changed ti kesä 13 2023
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2023-06-13T00:36:11 < qyx> gdb lama here needs hjalp
2023-06-13T00:36:48 < qyx> freertos with gdb, I set a breakpoint to a function called from a task
2023-06-13T00:36:55 < qyx> but it is never hit
2023-06-13T00:37:19 < qyx> and I know it should be hit because randomly breaking executing and doing bt shows it
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2023-06-13T00:42:37 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRndPZWtTYVdJQUFfVjJtLmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxsJmZvcm1hdD13ZWJw
2023-06-13T00:42:42 < Laurence_b> targetting looks spot on
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2023-06-13T00:57:50 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnlXYy1uUlhvQUVRR1VxLmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxsJmZvcm1hdD13ZWJw
2023-06-13T00:58:00 < Laurence_b> sheet I got photographed with my mates
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2023-06-13T03:07:11 < Phantom> hi there, stm32f103. When does the counter for the uart start? right at the start bit edge? or later on?
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2023-06-13T04:12:58 < machinehum> Anyone know anything about ddr4 training?
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2023-06-13T09:13:45 < qyx> machinehum: I only failed with lpddr3
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2023-06-13T09:42:37 < jpa-> Phantom: refman should say
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2023-06-13T16:12:46 < tct> sup
2023-06-13T16:29:31 < mrec> did anyone use usart1 on STM32F0 via DMA? I wonder if that works somehow
2023-06-13T16:29:47 < tct> I haven't but what makes you wonder?
2023-06-13T16:30:31 < mrec> well there's no interrupt triggered if I use USART1 (the other channels are fine) and I read that several people had problems with USART1 so the current support of that is still unknown to me
2023-06-13T16:30:59 < tct> does the datasheet/referencemanual say anything about it? did you check the errata?
2023-06-13T16:31:20 < mawk> usually HAL has the errata fixes
2023-06-13T16:31:24 < mrec> it only says it supports DMA, the errata only mentions usart4
2023-06-13T16:31:24 < mawk> if you use the latest version
2023-06-13T16:31:28 < mawk> unless it's very unfixeable
2023-06-13T16:33:23 < mrec> the pins are not allocated by something else this is a custom PCB already.
2023-06-13T16:34:15 < mrec> oh I just switched to circular buffers now it works
2023-06-13T16:35:11 < tct> neat
2023-06-13T16:35:15 < mrec> worked for a few seconds ...
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2023-06-13T16:43:35 < mrec> ok some source problem now the adapter is a bit flimsy however the circular thing gives me some hope now
2023-06-13T16:49:20 < tct> why is uboot so shitty in terms of mainline support?!
2023-06-13T16:49:29 < tct> how come pretty much every vendor has their own uboot?
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2023-06-13T17:04:11 < catphish> does anyone know how to configure a pin for USB on G4? i'm probably being blind but i don't see it in the manual
2023-06-13T17:09:30 < Steffanx> Don't you love it tct
2023-06-13T17:13:08 < catphish> i think just leaving the pins in analog mode works :)
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2023-06-13T17:52:53 < catphish> alas my L4 USB driver doesn't seem to quite work out of the box on G4
2023-06-13T18:03:52 < zyp> g4 might be v3 like g0?
2023-06-13T18:04:07 < zyp> v3 is slightly different from v2
2023-06-13T18:06:35 < zyp> ah, yeah, v1 and v2 has 16b wide buffer memories that differ in how they're mapped
2023-06-13T18:06:49 < zyp> v3 has a 32b wide buffer memory that doesn't handle 16b writes
2023-06-13T18:07:40 < zyp> which means that also the buffer descriptors have the ADDR and COUNT fields merged
2023-06-13T18:07:43 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/stm32_usb_def.h?h=dev_v2
2023-06-13T18:08:11 < zyp> it's a bit annoying to handle in code, I ended up with constexpr ifs: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/stm32_usb.h?h=dev_v2
2023-06-13T18:10:32 < catphish> thanks! i'll have a look
2023-06-13T18:14:10 < catphish> ths immediate problem i have is that i receive an EP0 packet that i expect to be bmRequestType == 0x80 && bRequest == 0x06
2023-06-13T18:14:10 < catphish> but it isn't. stupidly i have no debugging ability right now (i was hoping this would just work and i could use my USB port for printf, might have been a bit optimistic)
2023-06-13T18:14:46 < catphish> so almost definitley a buffer memory problem :)
2023-06-13T18:15:25 < zyp> note that I'm not 100% sure g4 is v3, I haven't done usb on g4 yet
2023-06-13T18:15:31 < zyp> but I'm absolutely sure g0 is :)
2023-06-13T18:16:33 < catphish> well i'm doing 16 bit writes to the buffer definitions and it's failing at the point that received data seems corrupt, so it's seemingly very likely
2023-06-13T18:16:41 < catphish> so thanks!
2023-06-13T18:17:13 < catphish> i wrote this code 4 years ago, will need to do a little re-learning i think
2023-06-13T18:17:24 < zyp> hmm, reference manual looks like g4 is still v2
2023-06-13T18:17:56 < zyp> yeah
2023-06-13T18:18:04 < flatmush> g0 is v2 iirc
2023-06-13T18:18:07 < flatmush> *g4
2023-06-13T18:18:41 < zyp> compare https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oML22.png https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AenPW.png
2023-06-13T18:19:05 < zyp> host mode is also new in v3
2023-06-13T18:19:06 < catphish> hmm interesting
2023-06-13T18:23:21 < catphish> my code has some suspicious constant memory addresses :)
2023-06-13T18:23:41 < catphish> #define USBBUFTABLE ((volatile struct USBBufTable *)0x40006C00)
2023-06-13T18:26:52 < catphish> zyp: that fixed it, was just the USB SRAM location
2023-06-13T18:26:55 < catphish> thanks!
2023-06-13T18:30:52 < zyp> ah
2023-06-13T19:22:46 < catphish> there's no standardized USB class for a dumb serial stream right? you have to implement a full CDC modem or gtfo?
2023-06-13T19:24:32 < catphish> i feel like linux's /dev/ttyUSBn is some kind of defacto non-CDC USB serial, but i should probably just implemt CDC properly
2023-06-13T19:36:11 < zyp> by CDC you mean ACM, and no, that's the standard
2023-06-13T19:36:16 < zyp> anything else is vendor specific
2023-06-13T19:50:00 < jpa-> and no, CDC ACM is not a "full modem"
2023-06-13T19:50:28 < zyp> true, there's fuller subclasses of CDC
2023-06-13T19:50:51 < zyp> but still, there would have been nice to have something lighter than ACM
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2023-06-13T20:16:13 < catphish> zyp: i do indded mean ACM
2023-06-13T20:16:16 < catphish> *indeed
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2023-06-13T20:43:47 < bitmask> training AI bots pays pretty damn well
2023-06-13T20:44:04 < bitmask> a coding bot is paying $35/hour
2023-06-13T20:45:25 < catphish> how does one do that>
2023-06-13T20:45:26 < catphish> ?
2023-06-13T20:45:40 < bitmask> i dont wanna tell you, you are gonna steal my projects :P
2023-06-13T20:45:50 < bitmask> nah im jk, the one im using is a site called umm one sec
2023-06-13T20:46:07 < bitmask> dataannotation.tech
2023-06-13T20:46:43 < bitmask> ive made $200 in 2 days, gotta start putting in more hours
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2023-06-13T20:48:03 < bitmask> the coding bot I should make like $2500 by the end of it
2023-06-13T20:49:12 < catphish> i gave up writing USB ACM for now, the descriptor is 67 bytes and i don't support sending larger than 64 byte packets, turns out linux has a driver that treats any USB device as a serial line for testing
2023-06-13T20:49:26 < catphish> though would be nice to figure out properly
2023-06-13T21:01:11 < jpa-> heh, too hard to send two packets? :)
2023-06-13T21:01:31 < jpa-> why are you writing it yourself anyway?
2023-06-13T21:22:24 < catphish> i always write my own stm32 drivers, i couldn't say why
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2023-06-13T21:27:36 < catphish> i don't know why i'm bothering with USB really, it's just a nice convenient way to plug in a PC for programming / logging
2023-06-13T21:30:48 < qyx> bitmask: wth is that, the web doesn't make it clear
2023-06-13T21:33:29 < bitmask> its mostly training AI bots. right now I have two projects available. One is coding, so I write a conversation starting with the user asking the bot to write or fix some code, then I respond as the bot with the code, youre supposed to add a bug or two to the code at this point, then the user responds saying it doesn't work right, then the bot responds saying your right, we can fix that by blah blah blah, heres the new code! you can
2023-06-13T21:33:29 < bitmask>  have it be ok then or have another bug and the user mentions that one and then the bot responds with the right answer
2023-06-13T21:33:41 -!- PsySc0rpi0n [~PsySc0rpi@bl22-255-167.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2023-06-13T21:34:35 < bitmask> another project is having normal conversations with an ai bot. so they generally say what kind of questions to focus on for half the time and then anything else you want the other half. and you do up to 6 back and forth's about the same topic
2023-06-13T21:34:52 < bitmask> this one actually shows the response from two different bots and you choose which response is better
2023-06-13T21:35:01 < qyx> aha
2023-06-13T21:35:31 < bitmask> its the awful training no one wants to do, but they pay well enough that its worth it
2023-06-13T21:41:21 < catphish> bitmask: that seems insanely slow, i assumed bot training was much less supervised than that
2023-06-13T21:41:53 < bitmask> its prob a mix between supervised and unsupervised, supervised is gonna give you much better results though
2023-06-13T21:47:53 < catphish> jpa-: maybe it's time i give in and use a library
2023-06-13T21:57:19 < aandrew> have any of you used the X-CUBE-CRYPTO library to verify x509 signatures from certificates generated with something like openssl or tried DH key exchanges with an endpoint running openssl/mbedtls?
2023-06-13T21:57:34 < aandrew> trying to get some idea of how compatible it is or if it's really just good for its own stuff and some low level shits
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2023-06-13T22:49:54 < qyx> bitmask: now I understand why do they allow natives only
2023-06-13T22:50:12 < qyx> or, at least they say us, uk, au and some others
2023-06-13T22:51:08 < bitmask> not sure, maybe its about taxes/payment or language, i have no idea
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2023-06-13T22:51:59 < Laurence_b> https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=22927826&cid=63598518
2023-06-13T22:53:48 < qyx> or it is "law cutting edge" being AI and they allow only countries which are known to be safe
2023-06-13T22:54:27 < qyx> or how is it called properly, grey zone
2023-06-13T22:54:46 < karlp> catphish: you can choose to implement ftdi, wch, prolific, exar, silabs protocols if you prefer....
2023-06-13T22:54:57 < karlp> you'll then get a nice "ttyUSB" instead of ttyACM.
2023-06-13T22:55:22 < karlp> and... you can _probably_ just implement the API of one of the newer ones, so you don't need to implement all the quirks, but... not a huge benefit.
2023-06-13T22:55:49 < karlp> i've seen it done when you want N serial ports and don't have enough endpoints in your usb periph to do the 3x that acm needs/wants
2023-06-13T23:12:20 < catphish> karlp: i literally just want a byte stream that linux recognizes as a character device :)
2023-06-13T23:12:40 < zyp> screw character devices, this is 2023 :)
2023-06-13T23:13:28 < qyx> do you hid?
2023-06-13T23:14:56 < catphish> well i could just use libusb and interact directly :)
2023-06-13T23:15:11 < catphish> but... i just want printf!
2023-06-13T23:15:50 < catphish> (for now)
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2023-06-13T23:27:06 < catphish> karlp: are any of those particularly common or easy?
2023-06-13T23:48:25 < catphish> i think i will have another look at how the usb peripheral works and see if i can write a much better impleentation with a transmit buffer so that sending 2 packets isn't a big hassle
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--- Day changed ke kesä 14 2023
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2023-06-14T00:11:50 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6afG0s0LSU random musics
2023-06-14T00:17:27 < Steffanx> Is that how you see us nomorekaki ?
2023-06-14T00:18:16 < nomorekaki> inclusion is voluntary
2023-06-14T00:21:02 < nomorekaki> ah this band is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et51PwPWFX0
2023-06-14T00:21:18 < nomorekaki> thi song
2023-06-14T00:22:55 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s88r_q7oufE this musics video
2023-06-14T00:23:09 < nomorekaki> I remember this from 2003 or something
2023-06-14T00:24:10 < nomorekaki> btw I'm just spamming these are not my serious musics recommendations
2023-06-14T00:25:30 < Steffanx> I see.
2023-06-14T00:25:46 < Steffanx> Payback for my shitty recommendations:)
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2023-06-14T01:25:24 < karlp> catphish: unless you are running out of usb endpoints, why would you bother trying to re-implement another vendors protocol when you already have cdc-acm?
2023-06-14T01:25:35 < karlp> you've got to reallllly want to go down that path.
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2023-06-14T01:26:35 < catphish> karlp: right not, i don't have any strong desire to do that at all, i was just looking at it because i have no buffering setup, hence have no way to send a descriptor that spand two frames
2023-06-14T01:28:12 < catphish> but that's got me on to thinking, if i don't have buffering, i don't really have a stream at all, so either i sort out proper code for streaming, or i change to HID, essentially much like the choice of TCP vs UDP
2023-06-14T01:28:35 < karlp> I think I'm missing something
2023-06-14T01:28:58 < karlp> how does yhou not having a usb stack that can handle actually useful descriptors relate to what you're oging to use the for the data itself?
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2023-06-14T01:36:26 < catphish> karlp: very simple, i can't use ACM because it requires a 67 byte descriptor
2023-06-14T01:36:42 < catphish> if i can't send the desriptor, i can't use the protocol
2023-06-14T01:39:25 < catphish> maybe *i'm* missing something, but to send the 67 byte descriptor necessary for ACM, i need to implement a buffer in addition to the 64 byte buffer that the USB peripheral offers, it's not the biggest coding challenge, but it's a departure from my usual love of everything stateless
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2023-06-14T02:04:36 < catphish> tis time for sleep anyway
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2023-06-14T06:03:17 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/TuPc1Se + https://ecsxtal.com/store/pdf/ecx-32.pdf
2023-06-14T06:03:21 < machinehum> Wtf is the pinout of this part
2023-06-14T06:03:58 < machinehum> The notch is clearly on the top left of the bottom view, but the datasheet says its on the top left from the top view
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2023-06-14T06:04:53 < machinehum> When a datasheet says "TOP VIEW" it means it's installed on the PCB and you're looking down right?
2023-06-14T06:05:54 < machinehum> Right now I have it mounted sideways on the PCB because I thought I might have just fcked up the footprint but then I checked again
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2023-06-14T09:10:06 < qyx> xtals have standard footprints, for one
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2023-06-14T09:11:10 < qyx> 3225 is super standard and your eda surely has one, there is no need to do a custom one
2023-06-14T09:54:43 < jpa-> https://github.com/ataradov/usb-sniffer   looks nice
2023-06-14T09:55:54 < jpa-> even though having only USB2 to capture host means that it won't be able to cap continuous HS traffic
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2023-06-14T10:45:00 < catphish> just to clarify, if i want to send a usb control transfer larger than 64 bytes, do i just send 64 bytes and then the rest? does the 64 byte size imply that there is more to follow?
2023-06-14T10:46:59 < catphish> i tried looking at laks but i don't see any magic for this
2023-06-14T10:52:02 < jpa-> yes, exactly
2023-06-14T10:54:06 < jpa-> and the setup packet indicates number of bytes to transfer also
2023-06-14T10:55:13 < catphish> jpa-: do you have any code that sends a ACM descriptor? i see you have definitions for such a thing, but i didn't see how you send it
2023-06-14T11:04:46 < catphish> i strongly suspect i'll be better off not using ACM anyway, and defining my own protocol
2023-06-14T11:06:17 < zyp> ACM descriptors are part of the configuration and not sent by themself
2023-06-14T11:07:30 < zyp> and yes, a full packet implies that more is to follow, so if you need to send exactly 64 bytes, you need to send one 64B packet followed by one 0B packet, otherwise host will be waiting for the end of that transaction until timeout
2023-06-14T11:11:29 < jpa-> catphish: i have only done USB with libraries
2023-06-14T11:12:39 < jpa-> in control transfers you don't need the ZLP because the setup packet indicates the number of bytes (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3739901/when-do-usb-hosts-require-a-zero-length-in-packet-at-the-end-of-a-control-read-t)
2023-06-14T11:13:00 < jpa-> unless you return less than requested..
2023-06-14T11:14:15 < zyp> I think a host is allowed to not poll for a ZLP terminating a control transfer, but I'm not sure a device is allowed to assume that and omit it
2023-06-14T11:15:24 < jpa-> according to that answer a host is required not to read for a ZLP after the full size has been transferred, so if you queue a ZLP it would just stay in buffer
2023-06-14T11:34:18 < catphish> now that i've had some sleep, i realise my requirement is primarily just to be able to mirror some variables out to my USB host for debugging. for now all i really need is a single isochronous endpoint that i can copy data into every iteration of my main loop, much like a mouse
2023-06-14T11:34:56 < catphish> and i believe you're correct that ZLP is not needed on setup transfers
2023-06-14T11:35:19 < jpa-> HID might be a funny fit, you can make your device into a joystick ;)
2023-06-14T11:35:50 < catphish> one of the main things i'll be sending is actually pitch and roll orientation ;)
2023-06-14T11:36:29 < catphish> plus probably a bunch of status bits
2023-06-14T11:36:32 < jpa-> what are building?
2023-06-14T11:36:34 < jpa-> +you
2023-06-14T11:36:43 < catphish> quadcopter
2023-06-14T11:38:01 < catphish> this is my board, it has a gyro, accelerometer and barometer, plus inputs for a radio receiver and GPS, and outputs for motors and servos https://i.imgur.com/QaubCHh.png
2023-06-14T11:39:55 < catphish> and USB C for DFU. testing, and retrieving data from the 128MB flash
2023-06-14T11:40:30 < jpa-> HID seems reasonable
2023-06-14T11:41:17 < jpa-> https://github.com/hidviz/hidviz  can be useful, though it doesn't do plots of axis positions
2023-06-14T11:42:11 < jpa-> there is motion sensor class etc. for HID
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2023-06-14T11:50:24 < catphish> cool
2023-06-14T11:54:44 < catphish> my very long term goal is a complete quadcopter build using as much of my own IP as possible. initially i'll be focusing on this flught controller hardware and software, but if that works, i will look at the various other parts, motor drivers, carbon fibre frame design, radio receiver, and maybe the final boss battle, video transmitter
2023-06-14T11:54:59 < catphish> but this is a long and rambling project that i pick up and put down over the years
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2023-06-14T13:12:57 < catphish> i'm just working out how to do the magic where every PWM cycle loads a new set of CCR values from DMA
2023-06-14T13:16:09 < zyp> why?
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2023-06-14T13:17:55 < catphish> zyp: are you familar with the WS2812 protocol? i'm not using a WS2812 but i'm using something with a very similar protocol that uses pulse width to encode digital bits
2023-06-14T13:18:03 < catphish> https://brushlesswhoop.com/dshot-and-bidirectional-dshot/
2023-06-14T13:18:37 < catphish> afaik the way to do this is loading timer CCR values with DMA
2023-06-14T13:18:56 < zyp> oh, right, you're outputting a train of differing pulse widths?
2023-06-14T13:19:15 < zyp> just two options, like WS2812, or more?
2023-06-14T13:19:33 < catphish> just two options, same as WS2812 basically
2023-06-14T13:19:38 < zyp> ah
2023-06-14T13:19:50 < zyp> I did one of those recently, hang on
2023-06-14T13:19:55 < catphish> 1.25us for zero, 2.5us for one
2023-06-14T13:22:53 < zyp> catphish, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/YqJLg
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2023-06-14T13:23:21 < catphish> you did it with a uart!
2023-06-14T13:23:38 < zyp> yeah, I'm cheating and encoding two pulses as one byte sent on an uart
2023-06-14T13:24:27 < catphish> that sure is cheating, sadly no good for me, my peripheral is connected to a timer pin, and all my uarts are doing other things
2023-06-14T13:24:41 < zyp> currently I'm only using a four entry LUT, but you could extend that into a uint32_t[256] and look up four bytes to output for each data byte in a single operation
2023-06-14T13:25:54 < jpa-> DMA to timer CCR works fine too
2023-06-14T13:26:06 < jpa-> SPI works also
2023-06-14T13:26:07 < zyp> on a higher end chip with DMA2D, you could stick that into its CLUT feature, so that you can have DMA2D transform the raw data into output data, that you can then DMA to the UART
2023-06-14T13:26:21 < zyp> and yeah, DMA to timer works too, I've done that as well before
2023-06-14T13:26:44 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?h=conf#n64
2023-06-14T13:27:12 < zyp> but that requires manually putting each bit in the DMA buffer :)
2023-06-14T13:27:23 < jpa-> (on lower end chips, you can implement LUT using DMA, but it only makes sense if you need to transfer a lot of data in the background)
2023-06-14T13:27:44 < zyp> yeah
2023-06-14T13:29:07 < zyp> the issue with SPI is that the baudrate divider only does 2**n factors, so depending on your sysclk it doesn't necessarily divide into a usable multiple of the target bitrate
2023-06-14T13:29:29 < zyp> although if you plan the hardware for it, you could of course clock it externally
2023-06-14T13:30:46 < jpa-> i wonder when ST will add RP2040-style PIO.. and call it "Adaptive Realtime Accelerator Bitbanger"
2023-06-14T13:31:03 < zyp> :D
2023-06-14T13:31:55 < catphish> zyp: manually putting each bit in the DMA buffer seems essential, i was expecting to do that
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2023-06-14T13:32:52 < catphish> the data i want to send is 16 bits, i realise i'll need to loop over the 16 bits and comvert each bit to a bit length and put that in a DMA buffer byte, but that part is eash
2023-06-14T13:32:54 < catphish> *easy
2023-06-14T13:55:03 < karlp> hrm, neat, does wirehsark have support for the lower layer usb stuff? I thought it only had the URB level, and you needed other software for the lower bits.
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2023-06-14T14:08:32 < catphish> something like this for the DMA/TIM https://paste.debian.net/1282948/
2023-06-14T14:30:40 < karlp> lookslike yes, neat indeed.
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2023-06-14T14:31:39 < catphish> doesn't work yet though, the timer works, but it's not triggering the DMA, i didn't configre DMAMUX, now i have configured DMAMUX but maybe not correctly
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2023-06-14T14:44:07 < catphish> fixed: "DMAMUX channels 0 to 5 are connected to DMA1 channels 1 to 6" nice work there ST :)
2023-06-14T14:45:36 < catphish> working: https://paste.debian.net/1282953/
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2023-06-14T14:52:46 < catphish> works better with TIM_CCMR1_OC1PE (preload) set :)
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2023-06-14T14:55:25 < catphish> final codes, quite simples: https://paste.debian.net/1282955/
2023-06-14T14:55:25 < catphish> success: https://i.imgur.com/41KpRyo.jpg
2023-06-14T15:03:04 -!- tct is now known as jbo
2023-06-14T15:28:58 < karlp> nicec scope, you get that second hand?
2023-06-14T15:38:51 < karlp> ahhh, java, 220 line stack trace, followed by another 40 lines of python stack trace running java stuff...
2023-06-14T15:38:55 < catphish> yeah, cost me £300, the only thing is, i'm not sure if it's in any way better than a cheap modern scope
2023-06-14T15:39:11 < catphish> i'd be interested to compare this scope side by side with a DS1054Z
2023-06-14T15:39:13 < karlp> well, onyl thing it will do is have that 300MHz bandwidth
2023-06-14T15:39:31 < karlp> if you'r enot up at that end, it will be identical,  :)
2023-06-14T15:39:44 < catphish> oh yeah, that's a decent bandwidth, i guess the cheap chinese ones are only 100MHz
2023-06-14T15:40:08 < karlp> yeah, even 200 is starting to cost real money
2023-06-14T15:41:21 < zyp> define real money
2023-06-14T15:41:49 < zyp> entry level MSO5000 isn't unaffordable, and the 350MHz unlock is «free» :)
2023-06-14T15:42:45 < catphish> MSO5074?
2023-06-14T15:42:58 < zyp> 5072 in my case, I paid 800€ for it
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2023-06-14T15:43:36 < catphish> that seems like a good option
2023-06-14T15:44:20 < karlp> I'd still say defining prices for 200Mhz bandwidth to include riglol hacking prices is... not entirely reasonable.
2023-06-14T15:44:33 < karlp> a 200mhz scope from anywhere else isn't in the same ballpark
2023-06-14T15:45:14 < zyp> what's reasonable depends entirely on what question you're answering
2023-06-14T15:45:32 < catphish> do rigol just not care then people buy their low end scopes instead of the identical high bandwidth versions?
2023-06-14T15:46:47 < karlp> I'm sur epeople by the high end ones as well.
2023-06-14T15:46:59 < catphish> i guess they win both ways, professionals but the high bandwidth ones, and they are happy thet hobbyists buy their stuff too at the low end, beung hackable is just an extra selling point for the latter group
2023-06-14T15:47:12 < catphish> *professionals buy
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2023-06-14T15:47:51 < catphish> hobbyists were never going to buy a 300MHz scope, but they're more likely to buy a 50MHz scope from the company that lets you hack it and feel like you got more for your money
2023-06-14T15:49:26 < catphish> zyp: do you have the logic probes for it?
2023-06-14T15:49:59 < catphish> they seem expensive :(
2023-06-14T15:50:07 < zyp> yes
2023-06-14T15:50:45 < karlp> lol, matter is like, "we use this old school gradle 7.1, and osx ships with java 17, so use the jdk that comes with android studio instead...."
2023-06-14T15:50:59 < karlp> of coruse, android studio has happily marched forwards and also includes java 17 now too,
2023-06-14T15:51:24 < karlp> so I have to either find a fucking jdk16, or fix matter. hoooooray
2023-06-14T15:51:28 < karlp> idiots. 
2023-06-14T15:51:31 < catphish> zyp: cool, i'm pretty tempted to buy the MSO5074, but the extra cost of the logic probes is annoying
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2023-06-14T15:52:31 < catphish> i always think about this though and then decide my scope is fine, it's a bit noisy (i think) but it works well
2023-06-14T15:53:13 < specing> catphish: you can also buy a 100MHz score and hack it to 200MHz. Close enough
2023-06-14T15:53:18 < specing> scope*
2023-06-14T15:53:53 < karlp> I realised after taking home the old riglol ds1000 from work that we tossed the logic probe head with all the rest of the ewaste.
2023-06-14T15:54:00 < karlp> just as well I have another LA anyway :)
2023-06-14T15:54:31 < catphish> that sucks
2023-06-14T15:54:48 < karlp> it's ok, the riglol is super noisy anyway, I jsut didnt' want to see it get thrown away.
2023-06-14T15:54:54 < catphish> i have one of those 8 channel USB locic analyzers that works with pulseview, i love it
2023-06-14T15:54:56 < karlp> I wasnt goign to pay for it, but if it went home free....
2023-06-14T15:55:10 < karlp> yeah, those plain fx2la dongles are fucking great for most basic stuff
2023-06-14T15:55:17 < catphish> yeah that's the one
2023-06-14T15:57:17 < zyp> for most stuff that calls for a logic analyzer, a dedicated one is probably a better deal anyway
2023-06-14T15:57:28 < zyp> I've been tempted to get a dslogic u3pro
2023-06-14T15:58:25  * karlp hard switches to a newer gradle and crosses his fingers...
2023-06-14T16:00:19 < zyp> I haven't used the digital inputs on the scope much, they're kinda only useful if you need more channels than the four analog ones, and still need some analog ones and not a full digital logic analyzer
2023-06-14T16:01:22 < catphish> that PWM stuff works perfectly, hooked it up to my ESCs (motor controllers) and the motors spin when asked to, yay
2023-06-14T16:01:38 < catphish> this DSHOT is a nice replacement for PWM servo control
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2023-06-14T16:15:53 < rob_w> so the ac6 ecplipse ... is that obsolete ? what is the current ide for stm32 ?
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2023-06-14T16:26:27 < catphish> the obvious answer would of course be stm32cubeide 1.12.1
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2023-06-14T19:16:41 < karlp> lol 36G./esp-matter
2023-06-14T19:18:19 < zyp> not yet rivalling vivado
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2023-06-14T19:21:55 < karlp> no, i've seen worse, 
2023-06-14T19:22:42 < karlp> just checking whether I had enough space to have a esp-idf v5+matter1.1 clone as well as a esp-idf v4.4+matter1.0 clone, to avoid the shit rsyncing and reupdating the mountain of submodules in both of them
2023-06-14T19:22:49 < karlp> looks like I can, if I clean up a few things.
2023-06-14T19:25:01 < catphish> i got distracted from USB and started looking at video transmission, getting an 900Mbps 720p video into a 20MHz radio channel seems a fun challenge
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2023-06-14T19:27:31 < jpa-> you might want to compress it
2023-06-14T19:31:42 < machinehum> qyx: jpa- So the datasheet is wrong?
2023-06-14T19:31:54 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/TuPc1Se + https://ecsxtal.com/store/pdf/ecx-32.pdf
2023-06-14T19:32:01 < machinehum> There are the links again
2023-06-14T19:38:04 < catphish> jpa-: well indeed, i'm watching a basic introduction to DCT
2023-06-14T19:38:20 < jpa-> catphish: oh, you're going to reinvent H264 also? :)
2023-06-14T19:39:39 < catphish> jpa-: i'm not sure yet, i want a compression that's extremely tolerant of data loss, H264 is rather efficient but relies on previous data being present
2023-06-14T19:40:12 < catphish> i'd rather take less compression but with much smaller blocks and much less relience on teh successful delivery of previous blocks
2023-06-14T19:40:20 < jpa-> it's always a tradeoff between sensitivity to data loss and compression efficiency
2023-06-14T19:40:44 < jpa-> you can run H264 in intraframe only mode and it's still a reasonably efficient codec
2023-06-14T19:40:49 < jpa-> certainly better than MJPEG
2023-06-14T19:41:09 < catphish> jpa-: that sounds reasonable
2023-06-14T19:42:34 < jpa-> you can also transmit a lower resolution video with intra-only coding and then higher resolution details with more compression
2023-06-14T19:42:51 < jpa-> and if checksum on the high resolution fails, fall back to lower resolution until next keyframe
2023-06-14T19:44:48 < jpa-> machinehum: are you sure the part you have is genuine and the part that you have datasheet for? because 3225 crystals are annoying, the notch can be anywhere.. compare with e.g. this datasheet  https://www5.epsondevice.com/en/products/crystal_unit/tsx3225.html
2023-06-14T19:45:31 < jpa-> the key is that it doesn't really matter, because as long as you connect the lower left and upper right corner, it will work no matter which way around
2023-06-14T19:46:17 < catphish> jpa-: anyway i'm super new to this, so will be reading a lot
2023-06-14T19:49:27 < catphish> just preliminary research while i work on the much easier stuff
2023-06-14T19:50:08 < jpa-> analog video at 720p60 is 37MHz, seems rather common for FPV use
2023-06-14T19:51:07 < catphish> i thought analog FPV only used 20MHz channels
2023-06-14T19:51:34 < machinehum> jpa-: Alright I'll just rotate it
2023-06-14T19:52:13 < machinehum> Because right now I have it hamberger style on the pad, switch that shit to hotdog style
2023-06-14T19:52:14 < catphish> jpa-: oh, actually one of the band allocations us 37MHz, you're right
2023-06-14T19:52:27 < catphish> https://oscarliang.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/5.8ghz-fpv-channels-chart-diagram-frequency-analog-digital-dji-avatar-hdzero-12-2022.jpg
2023-06-14T19:53:36 < catphish> raceband (R) is 37MHz, that raises an interesting question though, that must be lossy in some way
2023-06-14T19:53:43 < jpa-> also even if -3dB width of channel is 20MHz, you can exceed it a bit for the high contrast edges
2023-06-14T19:54:25 < catphish> presumably if you actulaly send 720p60 in 37MHz, you're not getting much definition in each line?
2023-06-14T19:55:15 < jpa-> as much as analog video in general.. so yeah, not black pixel right next to white pixel
2023-06-14T19:55:20 < catphish> i don't understand analog video, but i assume it's not magically fitting what is essentially 1Gbps of information into 37MHz without any loss
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2023-06-14T19:55:58 < jpa-> 1Gbps makes an assumption of 24 bit color per each pixel, independent of neighbouring pixels
2023-06-14T19:56:34 < catphish> yes that was indeed my assumption
2023-06-14T19:56:43 < catphish> that's how much information *might* exist
2023-06-14T19:56:54 < jpa-> the lossyness of analog is mainly no infinitely sharp transitions, and the more radio noise the less accuracy in colors
2023-06-14T19:57:40 < catphish> i see, so essentially analog video is just a low pass filter on the chroma/luma values?
2023-06-14T19:57:55 < catphish> which is not *so* different from digital compression
2023-06-14T19:58:13 < catphish> except analog can only do it one dimensionally
2023-06-14T20:00:10 < jpa-> so if you have perfect 50 dB of SNR, you'll get close to 24 bit color.. and at that point shannon-hartley theorem gives 600 Mbps digital capacity for 37 MHz channel
2023-06-14T20:02:03 < catphish> that's interesting, maybe modern 720p analog video is better than i'm giving it credit for
2023-06-14T20:04:45 < catphish> DJI's digital video system sends 25Mbps of h264 (i think it's h264) in a 20MHz channel
2023-06-14T20:06:05 < jpa-> and that will likely work down to 6dB or so of SNR, at which point analog video would be barely visible mess
2023-06-14T20:06:16 < catphish> yes indeed
2023-06-14T20:09:58 < catphish> there's also a tech called "hdzero" that does digital video on 27MHz channels. it doesn't use h264 and encodes much smaller blocks of data, they get less image quality in teh same bandwidth, but don't rely on a continuous reliable stream
2023-06-14T20:10:57 < catphish> i'm just inteersted in experimenting with whether i can transmit *something* to begin with :)
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2023-06-14T21:00:28 < BrainDamage> you can add forward error correction
2023-06-14T21:02:38 < qyx> catphish: I would use some dvb-t codec, it is all done
2023-06-14T21:07:29 < catphish> qyx: perhaps, the important thing for this application is that it has some way to degrade gracefully, in the case of DJI, they dynamically reduce the bitrate, with hdzero, they don't rely on previous data, so lost data manifests as increasing amounts of missing pixels, DVB-T of course doesn't usually have or require such a thing
2023-06-14T21:07:35 < catphish> but perhaps it's a good basis
2023-06-14T21:11:01 < BrainDamage> dvb-t has forward error correction
2023-06-14T21:11:21 < BrainDamage> you don't notice missing data until it crosses the treshold for unrecoverable bits
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2023-06-14T21:14:31 < jpa-> and when it does, you get totally unusable garbage
2023-06-14T21:15:10 < jpa-> usually when remote operating something, you would want gradual reduction and fast recovery from any errors
2023-06-14T21:16:03 < jpa-> i've seen descriptions of codecs that transmit low resolution image with high error correction ratio, and high resolution image with low error correction ratio, but i'm not sure if there is any widely supported implementation
2023-06-14T21:21:25 < boddax> efm8 is totally compatible with intel 8051? can i swap IC firmware?
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2023-06-14T22:10:54 < catphish> BrainDamage: as jpa-says, the problem is that DVB-T has no gradual degredation, as soon as you exceeed the acceptable signal loss you basically get nothing, which is not particularly safe in this application, ideally you want more redundancy on the low frequency image data, that way you lose teh high frequency detail first, or you lose only individual pixels or blocks
2023-06-14T22:13:28 < catphish> watch what happens in their video at 1:27 and 1:31 - https://youtu.be/7J9bZusbu_s?t=85
2023-06-14T22:14:33 < catphish> and for much longer at 2:12
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2023-06-14T22:22:50 < Steffanx> so did draining the battery of the surface pro fix the issue catphish ? :P
2023-06-14T22:23:55 < catphish> Steffanx: nope, it never recovered :(
2023-06-14T22:25:08 < catphish> Steffanx: to add insult to injury, i sold it on ebay, clearly describing the fault, somebody bought it and a few days after receiving it reported that it had arrived with a smashed screen and i had ot refund them
2023-06-14T22:25:57 < catphish> i strongly suspect they broke the screen trying to disassemble it for parts, but i can't prove it :(
2023-06-14T22:26:00 < Steffanx> oh i remember that story i think.
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--- Day changed to kesä 15 2023
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2023-06-15T00:51:20 < catphish> grr, my USB implementation seems mildly broken, all my setup responses on EP0 are delyaed by one, the first requst gets no response, next request gets the first response, i'm quite baffled
2023-06-15T00:53:23 < zyp> those are fun
2023-06-15T01:01:51 < aandrew> catphish: I ran into that before, not specifically with USB but I think with ethernet; if I remember correctly my issue was that the DMA was not getting triggered so it was all queued but not moving until the next event
2023-06-15T01:08:45 < catphish> aandrew: thanks, not DMA here though, much simpler than that, in theory
2023-06-15T01:12:18 < catphish> the trigger seems to be that the host sends two GET DEVICE DESCRIPTOR requests in very short succession, i'm not clear why
2023-06-15T01:12:53 < catphish> (6 microseconds apart)
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2023-06-15T01:59:00 < aandrew> catphish: are you getting two 6us interrupts for it?
2023-06-15T02:44:56 < catphish> i'm going to start over and try to debug what i receive
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2023-06-15T03:05:28 < jly> any of you bastards got a match?!
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2023-06-15T09:17:58 < jpa-> catphish: i think all USB implementations are mildly broken in different ways, but your implementation sounds severely broken :)
2023-06-15T09:35:58 < zyp> :)
2023-06-15T10:12:22 < ventYl> achievement: make USB implementation as broken as possible while still being able to talk to others
2023-06-15T10:12:43 < ventYl> biggest contester: AVR software USB implementation
2023-06-15T10:13:48 < jpa-> not ST Cube?
2023-06-15T10:14:20 < jpa-> nuttx usb from 2013 or so was pretty broken too
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2023-06-15T11:19:54 < catphish> jpa-: just woken up, will write a new one from scratch today, no idea how i fucked it up
2023-06-15T11:26:00 < ventYl> bushings in gear selector have de-integrated
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2023-06-15T13:25:59 < karlp> machinehum: "Chamfer on the bottom can be on pad 4 or pad 1 and
2023-06-15T13:26:02 < karlp> has no electrical significance.
2023-06-15T13:27:16 < qyx> lol
2023-06-15T13:28:48 < qyx> would you say B32529C0104 and B32529C1103 are the same?
2023-06-15T13:29:47 < qyx> no, nevermind
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2023-06-15T15:32:37 < catphish> working with the USB_EPnR register is just not fun, there are so many ways to write the wrong thing
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2023-06-15T16:13:20 < catphish> turns out the main problem with my USB implementation was actually that i wasn't responding to requets for string descriptors, i'm unclear why linux is requesting string descriptor zero though, i thought that was supposed to be a null pointer
2023-06-15T16:15:50 < catphish> ah "String Index 0 should return a list of supported languages."
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2023-06-15T16:28:27 < catphish> all working now i think :)
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2023-06-15T18:12:26 < karlp> whee, figured out why matter wasn't working.... the example app for esp32 had been badly copy/pasted from another example and was missing some of the code :)
2023-06-15T18:12:33 < karlp> top quality, enterprise grade.
2023-06-15T18:17:39 < qyx> hm, matter is over 802.15.4?
2023-06-15T18:17:41 < qyx> or .1?
2023-06-15T18:33:04 < karlp> can be over 802.15.4 or over wifi.
2023-06-15T18:33:24 < karlp> wifi is nice and easy, avoids any need for the "openthread border router" bullshit
2023-06-15T18:45:03 < BrainDamage> does that mean that devices are free to phone home - and rely on it for basic functionality?
2023-06-15T18:54:24 < karlp> they're probably not meant to, but i'm sure people will fuck around with things,yes...
2023-06-15T18:54:51 < karlp> I mean, my project is helping someone add matter to an existing project which has it's own cloud shit, 
2023-06-15T18:55:10 < karlp> and the matter is meant to be _extra_ so...
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2023-06-15T19:30:21 < machinehum> karlp: I see
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2023-06-15T20:15:41 < bitmask> grrr, someone come up with coding examples for me to submit as AI training data
2023-06-15T20:19:54 < Steffanx> Awh
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2023-06-15T20:41:49 < bitmask> no?
2023-06-15T20:41:57 < bitmask> but...but...
2023-06-15T20:42:04 < bitmask> pwease
2023-06-15T20:57:44 < Steffanx> Just find some Laurenceb code and submit it
2023-06-15T21:22:44 < bitmask> I'm not trying to get kicked off the project :P
2023-06-15T21:25:55 < bitmask> well 71 more coding examples to come up with, back to work
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2023-06-15T22:23:29 < josuah> <karlp> the example app for esp32 had been badly copy/pasted from another example
2023-06-15T22:23:43 < josuah> sometimes I wonder if they really want their SDK the way it is
2023-06-15T22:23:50 < josuah> same soup from Cypress SDK
2023-06-15T22:24:18 < josuah> in the example app, there are inline MMIO register definitions to tweak some hardware registers beyond what was implemented in the SDK
2023-06-15T22:24:52 < josuah> I'm still absolutely these examples are here for me to try them though
2023-06-15T22:25:44 < BrainDamage> bitmask: get an algorythm book and add the various entries?
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2023-06-15T23:04:38 < bitmask> BrainDamage not a bad idea
2023-06-15T23:49:19 < karlp> josuah: this is not espressif code, this is project chip fail.
2023-06-15T23:49:28 < karlp> no idea who's responsible for it.
2023-06-15T23:59:07 < josuah> noted
2023-06-15T23:59:11 < josuah> thanks!
--- Day changed pe kesä 16 2023
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2023-06-16T00:21:49 < Steffanx> Musics for nomorekaki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqMwT0Gj2cI
2023-06-16T00:58:55 < catphish> wow JLCPCB don't mess around, my last order has been manufactured AND assembled in about 70 hours
2023-06-16T00:59:32 < catphish> shame i cheaped out on the delivery, so will probaby not be here until the middle of next week
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2023-06-16T01:27:27 < catphish> unnecessary observation: licking a 5v rail feels weird, not painful, but weird
2023-06-16T01:32:55 < qyx> blame the leakage capacitance
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2023-06-16T12:43:17 < Steffanx> You never lick 9V batteries to test if they are empty or not catphish ?
2023-06-16T12:46:50 < karlp> isn't he too young to have lived in the era of 9V batterys in everything?
2023-06-16T12:48:02 < jpa-> doing the same on a 24VDC power supply was fun
2023-06-16T12:58:31 < Steffanx> He's 30+ I think. So I guess he's not.
2023-06-16T13:01:40 < Steffanx> I never tried that jpa-. Should I?
2023-06-16T13:11:06 < jpa-> nope, but make mawk try it and watch
2023-06-16T13:24:21 < mawk> :(
2023-06-16T13:25:10 < mawk> there were 9V batteries in my toys when I was a mawkling karlp 
2023-06-16T13:25:15 < mawk> or a bunch of AA batteries 
2023-06-16T13:25:15 < qyx> I ordered some new leds hoping they will be brighter but no
2023-06-16T13:25:23 < mawk> more current 
2023-06-16T13:25:32 < mawk> the absolute maximum rating is here to scare you
2023-06-16T13:25:33 < mawk> double it
2023-06-16T13:26:16 < mawk> it's like medication dosage recommendations, they exist to by ignored
2023-06-16T13:26:23 < mawk> and see I'm still alive
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2023-06-16T13:55:42 < qyx> my stm32 shows zero on ADc reading
2023-06-16T13:56:08 < qyx> and outputs zero on the DAC too
2023-06-16T13:58:58 < qyx> and it is a hardware issue, I have 4 identical boards with the same firmware, 3 works
2023-06-16T14:04:12 < qyx> hm reworked it and now it works
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2023-06-16T16:20:30 < englishman1> you don't lick them for fun?
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2023-06-16T16:47:50 < mawk> you mean cocks englishman ?
2023-06-16T17:07:57 < Sadale> true man licks the 240V socket [Disclaimer: This message does not sugguest you to lick it. If you do that, you're solely responsible for any of the consequences and you agree that you're an idiot]
2023-06-16T17:14:22 < ventYl> poor americans
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2023-06-16T17:53:30 < specing> imagine needing that disclaimer in an electronics channel
2023-06-16T17:53:39 < specing> what has the world come to
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2023-06-16T20:55:45 < catphish> Steffanx: no, i've never felt compelled to lick a 9v battery, but i am aware of the concept, hence my wondering how a 5v rail would feel
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2023-06-16T20:56:26 < Steffanx> heh alright
2023-06-16T20:57:59 < catphish> this evening i'm investigating ESP32's, the range of modules is mind boggling
2023-06-16T21:03:05 < josuah> > see I'm still alive
2023-06-16T21:03:12 < josuah> so many more dead people than alive people
2023-06-16T21:03:44 < josuah> it's unfair comparison though, as dead people had much more time to gather than the short duration given to alive people, who will fatally join the other team
2023-06-16T21:08:42 < boddax> bought alredy my coffin years ago :))
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2023-06-16T21:24:11 < BrainDamage> only slightly used
2023-06-16T21:24:23 < BrainDamage> not that you'd care since you're dead
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2023-06-16T22:48:12 < englishman> i have an old tub of folger's around here somewhere, that's mine
2023-06-16T23:06:01 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/7CPePdJ hmm
2023-06-16T23:06:34 < machinehum> It's a buck supply should be 3.3V, blue is the output and yellow is the buck pin to the cap
2023-06-16T23:07:21 < machinehum> Buck pin to the inductor*
2023-06-16T23:08:24 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/aGhu5LU
2023-06-16T23:08:43 < machinehum> I'll check those feedback resistors
2023-06-16T23:11:08 < machinehum> ffs I pop'd a 16R
2023-06-16T23:11:11 < machinehum> God damn it
2023-06-16T23:11:19 < machinehum> all the chips downstream are probably all smoked now
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2023-06-17T15:43:08 < jdw> zyp, last day here. What's something I can bring back with me that represents Norway? So far I only got a pair of those cheese slicers.
2023-06-17T15:59:10 < qyx> a nordkapp
2023-06-17T15:59:17 < qyx> oh sorry, bring back
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2023-06-17T16:48:07 < ventYl> a jar of crude oil?
2023-06-17T16:57:01 < BrainDamage> norwegian mistress?
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2023-06-17T18:17:07 < jdw> BrainDamage, not a bad idea. Everyone is beautiful here.
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2023-06-18T09:06:04 < ColdKeyboard> I don't know if anyone tried using Raspberry Pi Pico SDK but it's driving me insane...
2023-06-18T09:06:25 < ColdKeyboard> For some reason the logger library that works nice on STM32 is failing to compile on Pico
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2023-06-18T09:06:59 < ColdKeyboard> My logger macro #define Logger_INFO(...) Logger_COMMON(LOG_INFO, __VA_ARGS__) is getting either optimized or removed or something and it's not working on Pico but on STM32 works like a charm...
2023-06-18T09:09:37 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2023-06-18T09:40:48 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: so look at the preprocessed source to see what it gets turned into?
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2023-06-18T10:58:58 < ventYl> ColdKeyboard: Pico SDK is weirdly twisted trash
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2023-06-18T10:59:19 < veverak> ha, here may be some opinions
2023-06-18T10:59:26 < veverak> anybody aware of decent alternative to protobuf?
2023-06-18T10:59:42 < qyx> with IDL?
2023-06-18T10:59:58 < veverak> multi-language is the property I am looking for, so I assume IDL is necessary
2023-06-18T11:00:06 < veverak> (I want something that can be processed by other languages)
2023-06-18T11:00:38 < qyx> idk but CBOR is multilanguage and has no IDL
2023-06-18T11:01:38 < veverak> yeah, but than I would have to re-invent some way to define scheme right?
2023-06-18T11:01:58 < veverak> (the fact that the messages can be well-described is a feature)
2023-06-18T11:02:45 < qyx> then no CBOR, because it is practically a JSON binaried
2023-06-18T11:03:02 < qyx> butother than thatit is good
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2023-06-18T12:12:55 < zyp> there's also flatbuffers with an IDL pretty similar to protobuf
2023-06-18T12:13:18 < zyp> and I guess cap'n proto
2023-06-18T12:13:19 < veverak> zyp: have you tried the C++ generated impl. ?
2023-06-18T12:13:25 < veverak> (of flatbuffers)
2023-06-18T12:13:29 < veverak> it seems like it uses dyn. memorY?
2023-06-18T12:13:36 < zyp> no, never used flatbuffers, just registered that it exists
2023-06-18T12:14:16 < zyp> at work we use msgpack, which is pretty much a binary json
2023-06-18T12:15:10 < zyp> I don't really like the way we're using it though
2023-06-18T12:16:47 < zyp> we've got enums we're using for map keys, so all keys are encoded as integers
2023-06-18T12:17:49 < zyp> but there's multiple overlapping enums; one for the core message set and one for certain extension objects
2023-06-18T12:19:11 < zyp> so we have to know how to translate between name/int, and that can only be known from context, which is not encoded in the message
2023-06-18T12:22:08 < zyp> on the other hand, I like msgpack's binary encoding
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2023-06-18T15:21:53 < qyx> zyp: any highlights of the encoding?
2023-06-18T15:22:12 < qyx> because, cbor for example, encode integers less efficiently than protobuf
2023-06-18T15:22:28 < qyx> veverak: also, what's wrong with protobuf?
2023-06-18T15:25:33 < zyp> qyx, https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack/blob/master/spec.md#overview
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2023-06-18T15:28:04 < qyx> just read that
2023-06-18T15:28:15 < qyx> nothing specific, no varints
2023-06-18T15:28:21 < zyp> msgpack doesn't do variable length ints, instead has multiple integer types of which the encoder just pick the smallest that the number fits in
2023-06-18T15:28:37 < zyp> -32..127 encodes as is as a single byte
2023-06-18T15:28:58 < zyp> anything larger encodes as a 1-byte header and 1, 2, 4 or 8 bytes of data
2023-06-18T15:30:14 < zyp> which probably comes out fairly even to protobuf varints, depending on exactly your number distribution
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2023-06-18T15:30:59 < zyp> protobuf encodes either -64..63 or 0..127 as a single byte depending on whether you've got a sint or int/uint
2023-06-18T15:37:20 < zyp> hmm, no, running the numbers protobuf varints are more space efficient for anything except numbers that needs a full 64 bits and numbers that need both the -1..-32 and 64..127 ranges
2023-06-18T15:38:37 < zyp> but msgpack should be faster to handle
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2023-06-18T16:48:34 < ColdKeyboard> [02:40] <jpa-> ColdKeyboard: so look at the preprocessed source to see what it gets turned into?
2023-06-18T16:48:45 < ColdKeyboard> That's a good idea. I'll try to figure it out now
2023-06-18T16:54:46 < ColdKeyboard> I can see there is logger.c.obj and logger.c.obj.d in the build directory
2023-06-18T17:03:10 < jpa-> run with verbose option, take the compiler command line and add -save-temps
2023-06-18T17:17:21 < qyx> zyp: yeah and for ADCs I usually need 19-20 bits which is 3 vs 5 bytes
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2023-06-18T17:30:55 < jpa-> maybe i should learn to use some other connectors than 2.54 mm pin headers.. first i had trouble fitting them on the PCB, and now i lack the height clearance to fit the cable connectors in the enclosure
2023-06-18T17:46:26 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Do you have a guide or doc that I could read on how to properly configure project CMakeLists.txt so it properly includes all the .h and .c files? I think mine is broken when it comes to non-sdk files that I have in the project, especially logger.h  (https://pastebin.com/sW54cHfW)
2023-06-18T17:50:07 < jpa-> broken in what way?
2023-06-18T17:50:35 < jpa-> do a find to make sure you don't have a different "logger.h" laying around somewhere
2023-06-18T17:50:59 < ColdKeyboard> For some reason everything works except the logger. Both compiler and linker are complaining that they can't find a define that is inside logger.h
2023-06-18T17:51:39 < ColdKeyboard> Just the one logger.c/logger.h (double checked the sdk dir too)
2023-06-18T17:51:59 < jpa-> but not complaining about not finding a file to include?
2023-06-18T17:53:25 < jpa-> also try   make VERBOSE=1    and see what it is actually building & linking
2023-06-18T17:53:59 < jpa-> classic reason would also be including header from C++ file and missing extern "C" for functions defined in .c
2023-06-18T17:54:40 < ColdKeyboard> So logger is using defines to re-route and tag multiple lines to single function
2023-06-18T17:54:49 < ColdKeyboard> Like this #define Logger_INFO(...) Logger_COMMON(LOG_INFO, __VA_ARGS__)
2023-06-18T17:55:34 < jpa-> that's all handled by preprocessor, linker doesn't care; as long as the compiler finds the correct header to include
2023-06-18T17:56:40 < ColdKeyboard> I did now build with verbose and I can see that there is a correct include folder -IC:\pico\PicoFan\Lib\Logger
2023-06-18T17:56:50 < ColdKeyboard> Also I see logger.c is being built
2023-06-18T17:58:14 < jpa-> so what are the actual error messages?
2023-06-18T17:58:28 < jpa-> (all of them, pastebin them)
2023-06-18T17:59:55 < ColdKeyboard> Here it is -> https://pastebin.com/Lf80WsKR
2023-06-18T18:00:13 < jpa-> does main.c include logger.h?
2023-06-18T18:00:28 < ColdKeyboard> It does
2023-06-18T18:00:30 < jpa-> logger.c does, but main.c doesn't show the message
2023-06-18T18:00:37 < jpa-> which makes me think it doesn't
2023-06-18T18:01:13 < ColdKeyboard> Here is the main.c -> https://pastebin.com/hFVAHeXD
2023-06-18T18:01:25 < jpa-> can i have logger.h too?
2023-06-18T18:01:46 < jpa-> the line number of the error doesn't match your pastebin either
2023-06-18T18:01:56 < jpa-> so maybe the main.c at "C:\pico\PicoFan\Application\main.c" is different?
2023-06-18T18:05:30 < ColdKeyboard> Sorry, I copy-pasted after I made some changes but it's complaining about the line #16
2023-06-18T18:05:54 < ColdKeyboard> here is the logger.h https://pastebin.com/9RYWuLCu
2023-06-18T18:07:17 < jpa-> considering   #pragma message "Logger Included"   is not getting printed in main.c, the problem seems a pretty simple problem in either including or in your #ifdef jungle
2023-06-18T18:07:33 < jpa-> *getting printed when building main.c
2023-06-18T18:08:44 < jpa-> should the #if at line 22 of logger.h be terminated?
2023-06-18T18:09:18 < jpa-> currently it seems that the whole file is excluded if MIN_LOG_LEVEL_INFO is defined, like main.c does
2023-06-18T18:16:27 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- When I add #endif after line 23 it complains that there is #endif without #if at the end of file
2023-06-18T18:17:24 < ColdKeyboard> Oh okay I have an extra #endif that I removed the #if release/debug check but didn't remove #endif...
2023-06-18T18:17:32 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks jpa- ! You are a lifesaver! :)
2023-06-18T18:18:10 < jpa-> :)
2023-06-18T18:18:23 < jpa-> ventYl will probably blame picosdk for this also
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2023-06-18T20:32:43 < qyx> nah reading protobuf wire format again, it still seems to be the winner
2023-06-18T20:40:19 < Steffanx> Capn proto because it's faaaast.
2023-06-18T20:40:40 < qyx> I mean size-wise
2023-06-18T20:54:20 < Steffanx> Oh lol the C implementation of capn proto is unmaintained.
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2023-06-18T21:03:18 < qyx> hm making my float streams fixed point (*1000 or 22.10) and differential-encoding them, I get values in the range -64 to 63
2023-06-18T21:04:08 < qyx> so instead of encoding 64 floats into 320 bytes, I could encode them in 5+63 bytes
2023-06-18T21:04:28 < qyx> and that's a win
2023-06-18T21:05:09 < qyx> and if the stream gets more noisy, it simply becomes more fat
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2023-06-18T22:05:32 < Laurence_b> https://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=22935080&cid=63612988
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--- Day changed ma kesä 19 2023
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2023-06-19T06:26:54 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Sorry for bugging you. Did you use I2C on the Pico by any chance?
2023-06-19T06:27:17 < ColdKeyboard> I'm curious if there is a reason why I2C would not work on I2C1 using GPIO pins 2 and 3.
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2023-06-19T09:02:31 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: sure it does, you just have a bug that is inpossible to guess based on that description
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2023-06-19T14:19:56 < karlp> and we're back!
2023-06-19T14:20:35 < jpa-> welcome
2023-06-19T14:21:18 < karlp> now with one less cpu core, and $12 "inmy pocket" a month extra
2023-06-19T14:24:10 < Steffanx> As in karlp disabled a core to save a bit on the electricity bill or .. ?
2023-06-19T14:26:02 < karlp> no, scaled down my linode :)
2023-06-19T14:26:10 < Steffanx> aah
2023-06-19T14:26:13 < Steffanx> makes more sense
2023-06-19T14:26:43 < karlp> it had been slowly growing over the last decade with auto upgrades and shit, and I was now on a plan that was much more ram/cpu than I needed, because I needed the storage.
2023-06-19T14:27:04 < karlp> so now it's been reshaped a bit to have a volume for the big webstore and smaller cpu/ram.
2023-06-19T14:27:28 < karlp> having a hard time getting started with work today though :)
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2023-06-19T16:01:43 < jbo> moin
2023-06-19T16:02:11 < jbo> a friend is asking for a recommendation for a "cheap" lab PSU for home/DIY use. nothing fancy. somewhere in the 200.- to 400.- region. any recommendations other than Rigol DP832?
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2023-06-19T16:10:25 < zyp> rd60xx series
2023-06-19T16:15:50 < jbo> thanks!
2023-06-19T16:20:05 < zyp> they're switching, not linear like a traditional lab supply, so they'll be a bit more noisy, but otherwise they're great value for money
2023-06-19T16:21:22 < jbo> thanks for the recommendation - seems reasonable for what he wants to do
2023-06-19T16:23:13 < zyp> I got a 6024 so I've got enough power to be able to blow up stuff next time I'm playing with motors or something
2023-06-19T16:27:17 < Steffanx> Dont forget to buy one with a case (and perhaps the psu).
2023-06-19T16:31:48 < jbo> jup - got that on the radar
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2023-06-19T16:55:51 < ColdKeyboard> [02:02] <jpa-> ColdKeyboard: sure it does, you just have a bug that is inpossible to guess based on that description
2023-06-19T16:56:00 < ColdKeyboard> Do you have a suggestion on where should I start looking? :)
2023-06-19T16:57:38 < ColdKeyboard> Oh interesting, I was reworking the bus scan example
2023-06-19T16:57:54 < ColdKeyboard> It seems like it did find something so I'll use that as a starting point :)
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2023-06-19T21:17:05 < bitmask> a 16 output led driver has a register setting you can change called GCLK Shift and you can set it to 0, 2, 4 or 8. GCLK is the clock that does the PWM for the grayscale with a 16-bit comparator. any idea what the shift setting does?
2023-06-19T21:22:03 < bitmask> I'm 'hoping' it allows you to adjust the bitrate because with 16 bit theres 65K clock cycles and even at 30 MHz it would limit your display rate significantly
2023-06-19T21:23:44 < bitmask> though it has SPWM which cuts the PWM interval into 64 sections so I can multiply the ~500 hz by 64 and I'll be ok
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2023-06-19T22:23:04 < bitmask> damn, its just a delay i think
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2023-06-19T23:15:56 < Steffanx> It always helps to not share a datasheet. :)
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2023-06-20T00:26:57 < Steffanx> Did summer arrive in Finland yet me nomorekaki ?
2023-06-20T00:27:01 < Steffanx> Mr*
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2023-06-20T00:34:18 < josuah> jbo: for some project that needed several voltage rail (that a single PSU would not provide), I went with variable LDOs, divider bridges with USB as input :|
2023-06-20T00:34:30 < josuah> ok I'll need a good PSU
2023-06-20T00:34:36 < Steffanx> Yes
2023-06-20T00:35:39 < josuah> though maybe used ones are likely as good as news? it's not like I'm going to make use of an USB interface on it any time soon.
2023-06-20T00:35:51 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: definitelly
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2023-06-20T10:57:12 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc
2023-06-20T11:03:46 < jpa-> what do you name the lines of low voltage isolated AC input? AC_IN1 and AC_IN2?
2023-06-20T11:04:14 < jpa-> for DC i'd use + and -, and for mains AC i would use L and N
2023-06-20T11:08:53 < jadew> ∿
2023-06-20T11:14:44 < qyx> L, N
2023-06-20T11:14:54 < zyp> doesn't matter what you call them
2023-06-20T11:15:12 < qyx> or better, L1, L2
2023-06-20T11:15:24 < jadew> give them people names
2023-06-20T11:15:34 < zyp> I probably wouldn't use L/N or L1/L2 for low voltage AC
2023-06-20T11:16:17 < qyx> why, IEC mandates same colours whatever the voltage is
2023-06-20T11:16:28 < qyx> idk for names because I have never used isolated low voltage AC
2023-06-20T11:16:58 < qyx> for DC, it is pretty specific how to name wires and what colours to use if isolated/grounded
2023-06-20T11:17:41 < qyx> so strictly speaking, I would use brown/black and L1/L2
2023-06-20T11:19:33 < zyp> I picture something like those old wall warts that's just a transformer outputting like 9V DC or some shit
2023-06-20T11:20:29 < zyp> maybe jpa- is designing a 90s device with a barrel jack feeding straight into a bridge rectifier, and wants to know how to name the nets between the barrel jack and the rectifier
2023-06-20T11:20:51 < zyp> 9V AC*
2023-06-20T11:23:27 < qyx> rockwell automation uses L1/L2
2023-06-20T11:25:12 < qyx> hm
2023-06-20T11:29:50 < jpa-> yeah, L somehow makes one think of mains voltage :)
2023-06-20T11:30:23 < jpa-> in reality it is probably DC but plugged whichever way
2023-06-20T11:31:16 < qyx> eliminate those thinkers
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2023-06-20T13:19:27 < karlp> cool wig.
2023-06-20T13:20:40 < karlp> ACP and ACN or ACA and ACB
2023-06-20T13:20:44 < karlp> or ACL and ACR.
2023-06-20T13:20:49 < karlp> or just not name them.
2023-06-20T13:20:55 < karlp> net43234 is as good as anything else.
2023-06-20T14:33:29 < karlp> but all of it pales in comparison to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fhDVVfELsM
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2023-06-20T17:04:19 < bitmask> Steffanx the datasheet says nothing about it
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2023-06-20T17:05:41 < bitmask> https://z3d9b7u8.stackpathcdn.com/pdf-down/M/B/I/MBI5043-Macroblock.pdf
2023-06-20T17:06:05 < bitmask> page 12
2023-06-20T17:06:45 < bitmask> would be nice to know what these pre-charge modes and color shift modes are too
2023-06-20T17:15:41 < mawk> I love this FTDI USB adapter: https://amzn.eu/d/apwXox9
2023-06-20T17:16:01 < mawk> you can select between 3.3V and 5V logic, but if you remove the jumper you can supply what you want on VCC
2023-06-20T17:16:05 < mawk> including 1.8V
2023-06-20T17:16:32 < mawk> so I can use it for everything instead of having a three separate 1.8/3.3/5 V cables
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2023-06-20T19:29:19 < octorian> At one point I sought out and bought USB-to-Serial adapters with all the major chipsets (FT232, CP2102, PL2303) so I could work on drivers for each of them.  Because as far as USB-to-serial chips go, standards are for suckers and none of them implement USB-CDC.
2023-06-20T19:30:22 < octorian> Though I think the FTDI one is the most common, and what you're most likely to find embedded in a product.  Though I think the SiLabs (CP) one has better public documentation.
2023-06-20T19:33:39 < qyx> I would say ftdi is the most uncommon for products
2023-06-20T19:33:53 < qyx> chxxx, prolific wins here
2023-06-20T19:34:53 < octorian> I've actually never run into the Prolific chip in anything.
2023-06-20T19:37:41 < Steffanx> Few days ago I did. It said "NO LONGER SUPPORTED" or something when used on a windows 10 machine.
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2023-06-20T21:10:34 < Laurence_b> sup
2023-06-20T21:10:49 < Laurence_b> anyone know if udev rules can handle unicode usb serial "numbers" ?
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2023-06-20T22:17:13 < ventYl> he never stops surprising me
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2023-06-21T01:11:45 < Laurence_b> this looks arduino tier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc
2023-06-21T01:13:14 < mawk> yes Laurence_b you can do that with udev
2023-06-21T01:13:52 < Laurence_b> mawk: does udev convert utf-16 to utf-8?
2023-06-21T01:14:18 < Laurence_b> I'm getting weird corrupted characters on terminal for the serial number from lsusb -v
2023-06-21T01:15:28 < qyx> what the hell are those transparent junction boxes
2023-06-21T01:15:42 < qyx> isn't 12500 feet roughly 400 bar?
2023-06-21T01:15:52 < mawk> Laurence_b: linux is utf8 all the way
2023-06-21T01:16:01 < mawk> there's no conversion as far as I know
2023-06-21T01:16:12 < mawk> the serial number is supposed to be ascii or whatever but manufacturers can put what they want
2023-06-21T01:16:14 < mawk> and it can render bad
2023-06-21T01:19:41 < Laurence_b> qyx: yeah, I'm guessing they are oil filled
2023-06-21T01:20:06 < Laurence_b> mawk: so the upper bytes are just chopped off?
2023-06-21T01:20:28 < Laurence_b> qyx: it doesnt look bad for undergrad uni project...
2023-06-21T01:20:50 < Laurence_b> design decisions look poor and I wouldnt trust a lot of that wiring
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2023-06-21T01:25:37 < mawk> it's just all interpreted as utf8
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2023-06-21T01:41:45 < Laurence_b> so there is no conversion?
2023-06-21T01:45:17 < mawk> no
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2023-06-21T02:28:48 < zyp> obviously there's some conversion somewhere since usb strings are utf-16
2023-06-21T02:29:06 < zyp> including the serial number string
2023-06-21T02:30:08 < zyp> and you can't put ASCII directly in a utf-16 string, you need to interleave zero bytes when you do
2023-06-21T02:31:02 < zyp> I'd expect linux to convert it from utf-16 to utf-8 when presenting it through utf-8 APIs
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2023-06-21T17:14:03 < Ecco2> Hi!
2023-06-21T17:14:31 < Ecco2> How do you guys measure micro-amp level power consumption?
2023-06-21T17:14:40 < Ecco2> And, more specifically, how do you "average" it over time
2023-06-21T17:15:20 < Ecco2> It is my understanding that MCUs typically consume higher amounts of power over very short amounts of time. The average power consumption is of course very low, but how do you go about measuring it?
2023-06-21T17:35:46 < zyp> joulescope is a nice but somewhat pricy solution
2023-06-21T17:43:22 < Ecco2> Affordable -> $999
2023-06-21T17:43:34 < Ecco2> (Making fun of the copy on their website)
2023-06-21T17:43:39 < Ecco2> Indeed, that would do the job
2023-06-21T17:43:47 < Ecco2> Is there any solution that is more affordable?
2023-06-21T17:44:32 < zyp> we've got the older variant, JS110
2023-06-21T17:44:37 < zyp> IIRC it was cheaper
2023-06-21T17:44:46 < Ecco2> ok :)
2023-06-21T17:44:55 < Ecco2> They have an option for "NIST calibration"
2023-06-21T17:45:08 < Ecco2> Which raises a good question: how do you even make sure this thing is properly calibrated?
2023-06-21T17:45:13 < Ecco2> And doesn't drift over time?
2023-06-21T17:45:21 < Ecco2> I guess the same question applies to any tool
2023-06-21T17:45:40 < Ecco2> But I'm afraid something measuring nanoamps would be more susceptible to drifting (but maybe that's stupid)
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2023-06-21T18:05:33 < zyp> which raises another question: how accurate do you need it to be?
2023-06-21T18:06:35 < zyp> I figure there's two ways you're going to be using it
2023-06-21T18:07:04 < zyp> one is to compare before/after power optimization changes to determine if they help or not
2023-06-21T18:07:11 < qyx> you can calibrate it yourself with a resistor and a voltage source
2023-06-21T18:07:30 < zyp> for which the absolute accuracy doesn't matter so much since you're only comparing measurements from itself
2023-06-21T18:08:03 < zyp> and the other is to do absolute measurements to figure out what battery life you can expect
2023-06-21T18:08:19 < zyp> in which case you usually just need to know it's in the right ballpark
2023-06-21T18:08:55 < zyp> if I expect the microcontroller to draw around 10uA, I don't care much whether that's actually 5 or 15
2023-06-21T18:09:26 < zyp> what I care about is that it's not like 100uA, or whole milliamps even
2023-06-21T18:11:21 < qyx> whoa joulescope is 1000
2023-06-21T18:12:41 < zyp> yeah, that's why I don't have one at my home lab yet
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2023-06-21T18:22:27 < qyx> I guess for most things, +- 10 V and +- 1 A with sub-uV and sub-uA resolution is enough
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2023-06-21T18:25:37 < qyx> but I would be more interested in a battery simulator, variable voltage, current capability, internal resistance, current decay, etc.
2023-06-21T18:29:46 < qyx> oh and charging capability
2023-06-21T18:30:13 < Ecco2> zyp: very good points. I'm currently doing back-of-the-enveloppe calculations for a coin cell powered application. I'd like it to last 10 years on a single battery. Apparently this order of magnitude is doable.
2023-06-21T18:30:31 < Ecco2> I'm pretty sure I can find documentation on how coin cells decay over time
2023-06-21T18:30:41 < Ecco2> But then I'll have to check the board's power consumption
2023-06-21T18:31:08 < Ecco2> But you're right, in this scenario the absolute value doesn't really matter *too much*
2023-06-21T18:31:22 < Ecco2> I guess some margin of error is acceptable
2023-06-21T18:32:00 < Ecco2> But between 5uA and 15uA you have a 3x shorter battery life
2023-06-21T18:32:12 < Ecco2> (battery's own leakage current set aside)
2023-06-21T18:32:36 < Ecco2> Actually, I was thinking about powering the circuit from a capacitor
2023-06-21T18:33:06 < zyp> I'm not sure I'd trust battery figures any more than that anyway
2023-06-21T18:33:46 < Ecco2> Hmm, good point. Even from "reputable" vendors?
2023-06-21T18:33:54 < qyx> supercaps, i hate you
2023-06-21T18:34:00 < Ecco2> Oh, I didn't mean supercaps
2023-06-21T18:34:03 < qyx> I tried two times, failed two times
2023-06-21T18:34:10 < qyx> too high leakage
2023-06-21T18:34:15 < Ecco2> I meant : use a small MLCC (or similar), with a *known* capacity
2023-06-21T18:34:24 < Ecco2> and see how long the circuit takes to empty it
2023-06-21T18:34:43 < Ecco2> I don't know if it's possible to buy cheap capacitors with a decently accurate capacity
2023-06-21T18:34:43 < qyx> your MLCC capacity is unknown and changes wildly when a voltage is applied
2023-06-21T18:34:53 < qyx> unless C0G or similar
2023-06-21T18:34:55 < zyp> what size coin cell are you thinking of? CR2450?
2023-06-21T18:35:01 < Ecco2> I was thinking CR2016
2023-06-21T18:35:11 < zyp> what is your device gonna be doing?
2023-06-21T18:35:15 < qyx> huh 10y on that
2023-06-21T18:35:20 < Ecco2> A clock :)
2023-06-21T18:35:31 < qyx> but that's at least 1 uA, isn't i?
2023-06-21T18:35:31 < zyp> a clock doing what?
2023-06-21T18:35:32 < Ecco2> So really not doing much apart from powering the RTC
2023-06-21T18:35:41 < Ecco2> A clock displaying time
2023-06-21T18:35:48 < zyp> what display?
2023-06-21T18:35:53 < Ecco2> Sharp MIP
2023-06-21T18:36:40 < zyp> what's the average consumption of that for the update rate you'll be doing?
2023-06-21T18:36:50  * qyx grins
2023-06-21T18:36:58 < Ecco2> I've yet to look it up, but I think it's a few uA
2023-06-21T18:37:00 < qyx> zyp doing due dilligence
2023-06-21T18:37:16 < Ecco2> Might not make it to 10 years on a CR2016 indeed
2023-06-21T18:37:23 < zyp> I've got some eink price tags, and they state an expected battery life of 8 years on a larger battery than that
2023-06-21T18:37:24 < Ecco2> but I think at least a few years should be doable
2023-06-21T18:37:32 < zyp> at an update rate of twice per day
2023-06-21T18:37:42 < Ecco2> Yeah, but eInk is *expensive* to update
2023-06-21T18:37:46 < Ecco2> (power-wise)
2023-06-21T18:38:16 < zyp> yes
2023-06-21T18:38:39 < Ecco2> Actually, they draw *zero* current when not being updated, is that correct?
2023-06-21T18:40:04 < zyp> so a typical cr2016 is like 90mAh, and at 10 years that's an average consumption of 1.02uA
2023-06-21T18:40:08 < zyp> good luck with that :)
2023-06-21T18:40:36 < Ecco2> Yeah, it is indeed suuper low
2023-06-21T18:40:59 < Ecco2> At this point I'm really just doing back-of-the-envelope calculations
2023-06-21T18:41:57 < Ecco2> But I was wondering "ok, so assuming the maths works out using typical values from a datasheet, and assuming you've built your first board, how do you actually check that, in practice, the board's power consumtion matches the estimated one"
2023-06-21T18:43:17 < Ecco2> So is the idea of powering the board from a regular capacitor (not supercap) a dumb idea?
2023-06-21T18:44:23 < Ecco2> The idea being "Assuming a capacitor holds a millionth of the energy of a coin cell, then it should be able to power the board for a millionth-of-10-years, aka 5 minutes"
2023-06-21T18:44:30 < Ecco2> and 5 minutes is super easy to test
2023-06-21T18:47:14 < qyx> drawing energy from a capacitor causes the voltage to drop which makes your measurement nonlinear
2023-06-21T18:47:47 < qyx> and, again, capacity of your capacitor may be considerably off when biased
2023-06-21T18:48:15 < qyx> your 10u/10V 0805 cap may be 2u at a 5V bias
2023-06-21T18:49:05 < Ecco2> hmm, interesting
2023-06-21T18:51:14 < qyx> I would use a bigger cap, charge it to eg. 10 V, let it leak for eg. 10 minutes, measure the voltage
2023-06-21T18:51:42 < qyx> then charge again, connect your device with some sort of a very low Iq LDO, let it draw energy for 10 minutes, measure the voltage
2023-06-21T18:52:22 < qyx> subtract the two, assume ideal world, compute the current from dV/dt
2023-06-21T18:52:33 < Ecco2> smart
2023-06-21T18:52:54 < qyx> subtract LDO Iq and you get a rough estimate
2023-06-21T18:53:23 < qyx> foil caps should not leak that much
2023-06-21T18:53:53 < qyx> and don't have voltage bias, at least not that huge
2023-06-21T18:54:34 < Ecco2> thanks for this idea :)
2023-06-21T18:55:27 < qyx> http://www.circuits.dk/calculator_capacitor_discharge.htm
2023-06-21T18:56:22 < Ecco2> Another, completely unrelated question
2023-06-21T18:56:22 < Ecco2> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BN5Y9PZ8
2023-06-21T18:56:41 < Ecco2> Is there any chance this could work?
2023-06-21T18:56:51 < qyx> a 1000u cap going from 5V0 to 4V9 should last 100 seconds when the load is 1 uA
2023-06-21T18:57:02 < Ecco2> Specifically, would a USB-C device charge with just 5V on Vbus?
2023-06-21T18:57:26 < jbo> that depends on the implementation of the device side circuitry.
2023-06-21T18:57:30 < Ecco2> "a 1000u cap going from 5V0 to 4V9 should last 100 seconds when the load is 1 uA" -> That's a pretty ideal order of magnitude. And a pretty large cap actually, right?
2023-06-21T18:57:38 < qyx> yeah
2023-06-21T18:57:38 < jbo> most consumer grade stuff that can work with low-power supplies will tho (eg. smartphones)
2023-06-21T18:58:03 < qyx> Ecco2: but for a 100u cap and  1V drop, it is the same
2023-06-21T18:58:11 < jbo> I just designed a device which will not "charge" unless there's USB-C PD source with at least 15V capability.
2023-06-21T18:58:33 < Ecco2> Why? Does it just draw too much current otherwise?
2023-06-21T18:58:49 < jbo> yeah
2023-06-21T18:58:57 < Ecco2> " but for a 100u cap and  1V drop, it is the same" -> might be even better indeed
2023-06-21T18:59:26 < Ecco2> I'm specifically looking forward to using a cable like this to charge a phone or a nintendo switch or a small handheld console
2023-06-21T19:00:26 < Ecco2> I don't mind waiting overnight for those to charge
2023-06-21T19:00:39 < Ecco2> But I thought USB-C kind of expected pull-down resistors
2023-06-21T19:00:42 < Ecco2> on CC pins
2023-06-21T19:00:59 < jbo> Ecco2, nintendo switch only charges over 5V VBUS afaik 
2023-06-21T19:01:11 < Ecco2> jbo: as in, no PD?
2023-06-21T19:01:18 < jbo> Ecco2, correct.
2023-06-21T19:01:28 < jbo> Ecco2, but not sure if that was changed in later revisions. the one I have certainly doesn't do PD.
2023-06-21T19:01:44 < Ecco2> And what about the CC pins? Is this what a device is supposed to do to signal its presence to a host?
2023-06-21T19:01:46 < jbo> it's pretty much just USB 2.0 with a USB-C connector.
2023-06-21T19:02:25 < jbo> I'm no pro at this but afaik it is internally hooked up like any USB 2.0 connector and afaik no CC on the device means "just USB 2.0"
2023-06-21T19:02:28 < jbo> but don't quote me on that.
2023-06-21T19:02:41 < zyp> you're wrong
2023-06-21T19:02:45 < Ecco2> Hmm, I'm pretty sure you need CC
2023-06-21T19:02:47 < Ecco2> pull downs
2023-06-21T19:02:49 < zyp> yep
2023-06-21T19:03:02 < jbo> zyp, are you not even getting 5V VBus otherwise?
2023-06-21T19:03:07 < zyp> correct
2023-06-21T19:03:12 < jbo> ack - thanks for the info!
2023-06-21T19:03:12 < Ecco2> Well, wouldn't that depend on the host?
2023-06-21T19:03:21 < zyp> kinda
2023-06-21T19:03:28 < Ecco2> Like if the "host" is super dumb (a 5V DC PSU), then maybe you don't need the CC pins
2023-06-21T19:03:38 < Ecco2> but as a device, you can't expect the host to be dumb
2023-06-21T19:03:42 < zyp> a usb-c host socket is not allowed to turn on power output before it senses a CC pulldown
2023-06-21T19:03:56 < zyp> but a usb-c plug is (as in an A-C cable)
2023-06-21T19:04:10 < Ecco2> oh, good to know. Well, the cable I'm considering has a USB-A plug
2023-06-21T19:04:16 < Ecco2> yes indeed
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2023-06-21T19:05:02 < Ecco2> So the question really is "would a small appliance (phone, gaming console) that doesn't do PD just charge off of a 5V supply on vbus"
2023-06-21T19:05:06 < Ecco2> And I guess the answer's yes
2023-06-21T19:05:25 < zyp> well, no
2023-06-21T19:05:28 < Ecco2> ha
2023-06-21T19:05:30 < Ecco2> go on :)
2023-06-21T19:05:33 < zyp> maybe :)
2023-06-21T19:05:45 < Ecco2> what could happen?
2023-06-21T19:05:57 < Ecco2> Would the device wait to be enumerated?
2023-06-21T19:05:57 < jbo> aliens
2023-06-21T19:06:06 < Ecco2> I mean, then it just wouldn't charge off of most USB power bricks, right?
2023-06-21T19:06:31 < zyp> the source side of usb-c has a choice of three resistor values that signal current capability
2023-06-21T19:06:37 < zyp> 1.5A, 3A or legacy
2023-06-21T19:06:42 < zyp> A-C cables are legacy
2023-06-21T19:07:18 < zyp> devices that draw a lot of power is supposed to sense this and use it to decide how much power to pull
2023-06-21T19:07:24 < jbo> zyp, but in case of an A-C cable you wouldn't need CC at all, right?
2023-06-21T19:07:41 < zyp> A-C cables absolutely need a CC legacy pullup
2023-06-21T19:07:51 < Ecco2> Also, source == host ? The Host is supposed to do things on CC pins?
2023-06-21T19:07:56 < zyp> yes
2023-06-21T19:08:03 < jbo> how does that work on the electrical side, zyp? the CC isn't connected to the A port?
2023-06-21T19:08:14 < zyp> it's pulled up inside the plug
2023-06-21T19:08:24 < Ecco2> oh, ok
2023-06-21T19:08:44 < Ecco2> Thing is, I actually have bought the cable I linked earlier
2023-06-21T19:08:51 < Ecco2> and it does charge an iPad over the lighting end
2023-06-21T19:09:02 < Ecco2> and some headphones over micro-usb
2023-06-21T19:09:16 < Ecco2> but doesn't seem to charge any of my devices over the USB-C connector
2023-06-21T19:09:29 < Ecco2> so I was wondering wether it's defective or if it just wasn't even possible to build such a cable
2023-06-21T19:09:51 < zyp> if your devices work with regular A-C cables, its just defective
2023-06-21T19:09:58 < Ecco2> but given that "regular" USB-A to USB-C cables do charge my devices, and that they really only use Vbus on the USB-A side, it's a dumb question : yes it's possible
2023-06-21T19:10:01 < zyp> because it shouldn't be functionally different
2023-06-21T19:10:05 < Ecco2> Indeed :)
2023-06-21T19:10:30 < Ecco2> So I guess I should check for voltage over the USB-C Vbus pins
2023-06-21T19:10:37 < Ecco2> *and* for a pull-up on some CC pins?
2023-06-21T19:10:50 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CbQe0.jpg <- my macbook happily charges from 5V vbus from an A-C-cable :)
2023-06-21T19:11:38 < Ecco2> Oh, cool device
2023-06-21T19:11:40 < Ecco2> What is it?
2023-06-21T19:12:43 < zyp> some usb-c tester I picked up a few years ago
2023-06-21T20:04:21 < octorian> Hmm... How to proceed...  I think the next thing I want to do is write some driver code for an M24C01-D I2C EEPROM.  I already have code for an M24M01 I2C EEPROM.  On one hand, its tempting to just make my existing code flexible and re-configurable for the differences.  On the other hand, this isn't much code, and a copy-paste might result in something simpler overall.
2023-06-21T20:11:57 < octorian> As tempting as a single implementation might be, thinking about it more, the biggest difference is 8-bit vs 16-bit addresses.  So a copy-paste fork would probably make all the code using the M24C01 better.
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2023-06-21T21:58:07 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone used PolyMCU with STM32 and LVGL?
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2023-06-21T21:58:44 < ColdKeyboard> I can't figure out how to properly add lvgl. For some reason it compiles fine but it fails during linking...
2023-06-21T22:01:00 < jpa-> you may have to tell us the error message
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2023-06-21T22:25:05 < ColdKeyboard> I managed to get rid of it... Hacky but it works for now :)
2023-06-21T22:25:15 < ColdKeyboard> now I just have to figure out why the colors are all messed up :D
2023-06-21T22:25:23 < ColdKeyboard> But hey, at least the spinned demo is working :D
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2023-06-21T22:32:01 < octorian> So far the only display library I've worked with is u8g2.  Probably because nearly all of my projects use monochrome OLED displays.
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2023-06-21T23:03:11 < ColdKeyboard> u8g2 is nice!
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--- Day changed to kesä 22 2023
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2023-06-22T00:28:18 < ColdKeyboard> Did anyone here use LVGL?
2023-06-22T00:28:55 < ColdKeyboard> I'm creating a input device which is my touch-screen. I have the indev and also the callback function, but as soon as the input device code runs, device "hangs"
2023-06-22T00:33:52 < ColdKeyboard> Oh actually it's hard faulting... interesting
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2023-06-22T00:34:36 < Laurence_b> no shit sherlock https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65977432
2023-06-22T00:34:54 < Laurence_b> >send arduino tier vehicle to seabed with passengers onboard
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2023-06-22T00:44:41 < machinehum> Once of you guys was using rp2040, tried with jtag/openocd https://pastebin.com/raw/XyricQvG
2023-06-22T00:44:50 < machinehum> I'm having some issues with a custom board
2023-06-22T00:44:57 < machinehum> USB is working
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2023-06-22T01:59:31 < BrainDamage> who here was wondering why gpu prices were still crazy? https://www.tomshardware.com/news/chinas-bytedance-has-gobbled-up-dollar1-billion-of-nvidia-gpus-for-ai-this-year
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2023-06-22T04:54:19 < octorian> I'm very curious how TinyUSB's host-side support is doing these days, because if its good enough then I'm tempted to switch from the ST USB host library.
2023-06-22T04:54:50 < octorian> I don't like ST's license, and once you get past the overall framework the ST library is more lacking than it should be, in areas I care about.
2023-06-22T05:11:56 < octorian> Looks like TinyUSB's host support is limited, only has MSC, HID, and CDC support.  But really, that's all I'm getting from ST's stack anyways (before I have to add my own driver code).  And ST's CDC host support seems, er, half-assed.
2023-06-22T05:12:20 < octorian> And if I'm going to have to add a substantial amount of my own code anyways, I'd rather do it on TinyUSB.
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2023-06-22T10:04:05 < jadew> BrainDamage, crazy times man...
2023-06-22T10:04:39 < jadew> good thing old tech is good enough for most games
2023-06-22T10:04:48 < jadew> https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Nano-Receiver-Controller-Vibration/dp/B0041RR0TW/
2023-06-22T10:05:08 < jadew> That's the controller that lost submarine was using...
2023-06-22T10:05:35 < jadew> at least that's what reddit claims
2023-06-22T10:33:52 < mawk> you can see it in the tv report made about them last year or so
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2023-06-22T11:08:27 < qyx> that's kind of interesting, they are nearly dead and the whole interweb is making fun of them
2023-06-22T11:08:35 < qyx> because, you know
2023-06-22T11:08:58 < Mangy_Dog> if you mean the sub ppl
2023-06-22T11:09:04 < Mangy_Dog> heres my take
2023-06-22T11:09:23 < qyx> I would call them Darwin price laureate
2023-06-22T11:09:36 < qyx> s
2023-06-22T11:09:48 < Mangy_Dog> over richppl doing something clearly stupid and unsafe get hurt doing unsafe thing
2023-06-22T11:10:05 < Mangy_Dog> that sub is CLEARLY not fit for purpose
2023-06-22T11:10:15 < Mangy_Dog> anyone with half a brain can see that
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2023-06-22T11:10:31 < Mangy_Dog> i think for me most of the ridicule is the quality of the sub
2023-06-22T11:11:15 < PaulFertser> Darwin award requires one to have no children.
2023-06-22T11:11:29 < qyx> it reminds me those rich killed year or two ago in Alaska, owner of the czech O2 operator and some more
2023-06-22T11:11:34 < Mangy_Dog> the billionare and his son is on board the same sub
2023-06-22T11:11:34 < qyx> PaulFertser: oh
2023-06-22T11:11:37 < Mangy_Dog> it counts
2023-06-22T11:11:54 < mawk> because they're rich people qyx 
2023-06-22T11:11:59 < mawk> that's why we make fun of them
2023-06-22T11:12:03 < mawk> well most of them were rich people
2023-06-22T11:12:16 < mawk> there was a former french légionnaire with them
2023-06-22T11:12:17 < qyx> maybe except the actual pilot
2023-06-22T11:12:20 < mawk> and also the CEO
2023-06-22T11:12:25 < mawk> but he deserved to doe
2023-06-22T11:12:26 < mawk> die
2023-06-22T11:12:32 < qyx> the ceo was just overconfident
2023-06-22T11:12:40 < mawk> "safety regulations are for suckers"
2023-06-22T11:12:55 < Mangy_Dog> what i dont get is... Why the heck the thing didnt have a mechanical emergancy ballast
2023-06-22T11:12:57 < qyx> nobody deserves but I get the point
2023-06-22T11:13:02 < Mangy_Dog> to get it to surface
2023-06-22T11:13:06 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: it has
2023-06-22T11:13:11 < mawk> they supposedly have
2023-06-22T11:13:24 < mawk> and even more supposedly they have 7 redundancies 
2023-06-22T11:13:25 < qyx> apparently even an automatic one released after 24 hours
2023-06-22T11:13:34 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2023-06-22T11:13:51 < qyx> so I guess they just imploded
2023-06-22T11:13:54 < mawk> so it might be already floating at the surface, or caught somewhere 
2023-06-22T11:13:56 < mawk> or that yeah
2023-06-22T11:13:56 < Mangy_Dog> if they do and it didnt work... it was a bad design... or the sub imploded
2023-06-22T11:13:57 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2023-06-22T11:14:29 < Mangy_Dog> if it imploaded i wonder what the banging sound is then
2023-06-22T11:14:41 < Mangy_Dog> they say that its regular enough to maybe be them
2023-06-22T11:14:43 < mawk> their ghosts weeping 
2023-06-22T11:15:01 < Mangy_Dog> dont get me wrong i hope theyre found alive though its seemingly unlikely now
2023-06-22T11:15:11 < Mangy_Dog> and there be some hard lessons learnd
2023-06-22T11:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> but
2023-06-22T11:15:19 < Mangy_Dog> its not looking good
2023-06-22T11:15:40 < qyx> too much resources spent already
2023-06-22T11:16:22 < qyx> ok time to get another 4 PCBs made
2023-06-22T11:16:27 < qyx> to become a billionaire too
2023-06-22T11:16:51 < Mangy_Dog> it be nice to have more money than you could spend in a life time
2023-06-22T11:17:05 < Mangy_Dog> Dont get me wrong ill work and do stuff
2023-06-22T11:17:10 < Mangy_Dog> just not have to worry
2023-06-22T11:17:14 < Mangy_Dog> about basic survival
2023-06-22T11:17:54 < qyx> move to Norway and participate in the "basic income" experiment
2023-06-22T11:18:03 < qyx> (was it Norway?)
2023-06-22T11:18:25 < Mangy_Dog> i think they do it
2023-06-22T11:18:31 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah basic income would be great
2023-06-22T11:18:52 < Mangy_Dog> theyre doing a " test" of that here... with about 100 people.
2023-06-22T11:18:56 < Mangy_Dog> a trial
2023-06-22T11:19:03 < Mangy_Dog> it would never get rolled out however
2023-06-22T11:19:15 < Mangy_Dog> not here
2023-06-22T11:19:22 < Mangy_Dog> not under a this or any tory gov
2023-06-22T11:19:51 < Mangy_Dog> well it seems this last few minutes my dell 30 monitor has... died
2023-06-22T11:20:38 < Mangy_Dog> hopefully its just the backlight thats gone as i was thinking of upgrading it from cold cathode to led
2023-06-22T11:20:43 < Mangy_Dog> as a project
2023-06-22T11:20:45 < qyx> it run out of oxygen probably
2023-06-22T11:20:49 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2023-06-22T11:21:20 < Mangy_Dog> but the controller boards been acting up this last few years... getting issues with noise on the DP line... and started coming out of sleep and not going back into sleep mode
2023-06-22T11:24:23 < Mangy_Dog> oh its back now
2023-06-22T11:24:26 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2023-06-22T11:24:43 < Mangy_Dog> maybe the control board really is on its last legs :/
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2023-06-22T12:00:36 < mawk> is it a centipede board Mangy_Dog ?
2023-06-22T12:00:42 < mawk> how many legs did it have
2023-06-22T12:01:26 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2023-06-22T12:01:51 < Mangy_Dog> theyve been pulled off one by one over the 12 or so years ive had this monitor
2023-06-22T12:02:16 < Mangy_Dog> poor centipede D:
2023-06-22T12:02:17 < zyp> qyx, Finland, I think
2023-06-22T12:04:06 < qyx> unrelated, my bias is low
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2023-06-22T13:50:43 < jadew> shouldn't they have a beacon of some sort on that thing?
2023-06-22T13:51:10 < jadew> if they were alive, they'd probably turn that thing on, and they'd be located immediately, regardless if they were underwater or floating
2023-06-22T13:51:45 < jadew> I think they died when the communications got interrupted or very soon after
2023-06-22T13:52:21 < ventYl> those beacons have quite limited range underwater
2023-06-22T13:52:42 < ventYl> even black box beacons can obly be detected from relative close position
2023-06-22T13:53:52 < jadew> you think they're not around the titanic anymore?
2023-06-22T13:56:13 < ventYl> I don't follow the case closely, but there was a statement, that search area is some <2000 km2 large
2023-06-22T13:57:16 < jadew> I assume they tried 1 km2 really well and decided to expand?
2023-06-22T13:57:49 < ventYl> surface vessel is drawn away by currents and wind, the search area is expanded based on these factors
2023-06-22T13:58:00 < ventYl> I guess they did that here too 
2023-06-22T14:00:30 < jpa-> i would assume they have GPS logging the surface vessel position of when it started the dive
2023-06-22T14:00:57 < jpa-> quite surprising that the submersible would drift that far
2023-06-22T14:01:38 < jadew> apparently underwater currents can be quite strong
2023-06-22T14:02:15 < ventYl> jpa-: it apparently had a mothership which launched it somewhere nearby
2023-06-22T14:02:17 < jadew> I used to want a submarine since I was a kid and read 20000 leagues under the sea, but I think I'm over it.
2023-06-22T14:03:55 < jadew> what's very interesting to me, about this whole story, is how much people hate the rich
2023-06-22T14:04:09 < ventYl> hm, newspapers write that it wasn't certified and that some people openly disputed its testing
2023-06-22T14:15:01 < ventYl> among others the hull strength and visor design
2023-06-22T14:15:34 < qyx> jadew: they said yes, 15 minute interval, both the main transmitter and beacon transmitter died at the same time
2023-06-22T14:15:35 < ventYl> well, maybe hull collapsed from fatigue due to overloads and they were instanly dead
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2023-06-22T14:40:09 < karlp> lol, just ran a font2bitmap thingy to add icelandic characters, and forgot to include a space in the character set included :)
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2023-06-22T16:17:38 < karlp> python's weird some times, setting a variable to True in an "irq" handler fails, some mismatch of "global" or whatever, 
2023-06-22T16:17:53 < karlp> but making an object that just holds the flag, and using that indirection works just fine.
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2023-06-22T16:26:05 < zyp> it's a natural consequence of not requiring variables to be declared before you assign to them
2023-06-22T16:26:53 < zyp> if you're assigning to a variable inside a function, you're making a function local variable
2023-06-22T16:27:42 < zyp> and it pretty much has to be that way, otherwise it'd randomly trash variables in outer scopes that happened to be named the same
2023-06-22T16:28:25 < zyp> when you're reading a variable, you don't have that issue, because you can just look through each scope, starting with the innermost
2023-06-22T16:30:17 < zyp> when you're assigning to an object attribute, you also don't have that issue, because you're effectively doing setattr() on an object, and the object you're looking up through the scopes same way as if reading a variable
2023-06-22T16:35:39 < zyp> generally it's a good idea to avoid using globals, it's tidier to pack the variable and functions poking at it into a class
2023-06-22T16:37:15 < karlp> nah, this was even after it was all scoped inside one function, or at least, I believed that inner functions had that scope, either way, works now.
2023-06-22T16:38:10 < karlp> ripped off some example code, and made a birthday thing for the mother in law: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/pYnio7KMB2Ba9DL
2023-06-22T16:38:26 < karlp> was more time consuming than expected, mostly just finding the right code to rip off :)
2023-06-22T16:38:38 < zyp> you've got nested functions? if so, the inner function can't assign variables in the outer function's scope sanely :)
2023-06-22T16:38:56 < karlp> can in lua :|
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2023-06-22T16:39:03 < karlp> whatevs, I objectified it. it works :)
2023-06-22T16:39:17 < karlp> shipping quality, quantity 1.
2023-06-22T16:39:36 < zyp> https://twitter.com/blinry/status/1550920690529968128
2023-06-22T16:39:50 < karlp> lol
2023-06-22T16:39:52 < karlp> that's awesome
2023-06-22T16:40:23 < karlp> still think it's not reall a problem in reality
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2023-06-22T16:49:41 < qyx> lold irl
2023-06-22T16:52:45 < qyx> unrelated https://fosstodon.org/@bbbhltz/110588114536673913
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2023-06-22T17:37:32 < josuah> zyp: https://twitter.com/Yolgie/status/1551591959042691076
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2023-06-22T18:32:44 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone has a suggestion why PB11 on stm32l4p5cg would be always at ~1.24V... I'm not using TIM2, I2C4, I2C2 or or USART3
2023-06-22T18:56:55 < bitmask> ohhh, 8 more hours of training AI and I'll have made a grand, not bad
2023-06-22T18:58:36 < Steffanx> How many hours in total is that?
2023-06-22T18:59:07 < bitmask> dunno, its split between two projects, one which pays $35/hr and the other pays $20/hr
2023-06-22T18:59:23 < bitmask> although for the next week it pays $23/hr
2023-06-22T19:00:56 < bitmask> I need to start working more hours per day, im just not a creative person and its mentally exhausting coming up with idea after idea
2023-06-22T19:02:11 < bitmask> Although there was a bootcamp the other day for an hour and people were giving suggestions and I felt like a genius 
2023-06-22T19:05:15 < mawk> who pays you for that bitmask 
2023-06-22T19:07:24 < bitmask> this website, data annotation
2023-06-22T19:07:51 < bitmask> a friend told me about them and its been great
2023-06-22T19:08:11 < bitmask> though i worry once these two projects are over that i wont have anything else to work on
2023-06-22T19:08:35 < bitmask> they are the only long term projects ive seen so far, though i just started a little over a week ago
2023-06-22T19:08:40 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: what is connected to the pin externally?
2023-06-22T19:08:41 < bitmask> maybe 2 weeks
2023-06-22T19:10:48 < jpa-> bitmask: wouldn't programming gigs pay more than that?
2023-06-22T19:11:51 < bitmask> sure, i wasn't saying it was better than a real job. but ive realized my area sucks for coding jobs so i gave up for now
2023-06-22T19:12:16 < Mangy_Dog> ColdKeyboard https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/1121472680034570310/image.png
2023-06-22T19:12:21 < Mangy_Dog> thats whats on PB11
2023-06-22T19:12:31 < Mangy_Dog> make sure all of those are switched off
2023-06-22T19:12:51 < Mangy_Dog> if youre getting 1.24v you could be getting a PWM with middling duty cycles
2023-06-22T19:13:10 < Mangy_Dog> best check with a ociliscope than a dm
2023-06-22T19:13:57 < Mangy_Dog> also try setting the pin mode and then forcing it high and low see if it complys
2023-06-22T19:14:13 < Mangy_Dog> it may also just be floating if youve not inited the pin correctly
2023-06-22T19:14:16 < Mangy_Dog> (maybe)
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2023-06-22T22:27:18 < qyx> implosion confirmed from multiple sources
2023-06-22T22:27:20 < qyx> https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/06/21/6492fe30d76609002810d851-live.html
2023-06-22T22:43:00 < ventYl> well, at least it was instadeath
2023-06-22T22:44:27 < qyx> even al jazeera cited them 20 mins ago
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2023-06-22T23:27:53 < Steffanx> "The world was shocked by the news this week" ... Uh what?
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2023-06-22T23:56:13 < qyx> whoa TIL CBOR break code is 0xff
2023-06-22T23:56:48 < qyx> which is exactly.. surprise surprise, a flash memory erased state value
2023-06-22T23:57:33 < qyx> and it means I can do exacty what I wanted to do, encode key-value pairs as a CBOR map in a NOR flash
--- Day changed pe kesä 23 2023
2023-06-23T00:08:18 < qyx> karlp: what was that 5V/8A buck you used again?
2023-06-23T00:09:25 < qyx> nevermind, I guess not relevant
2023-06-23T00:16:53 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: that submarine accident?
2023-06-23T00:18:07 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: movie recommend: Meet Joe Black
2023-06-23T00:23:27 < Steffanx> Yeah nomorekaki. I'm not shocked. 
2023-06-23T00:23:37 < Steffanx> But I'm not "the world" so maybe that explains it
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2023-06-23T02:13:06 < karlp> sic43x series.
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2023-06-23T02:13:08 < karlp> various parts.
2023-06-23T02:14:00 < karlp> sic431 even does 24A...
2023-06-23T02:14:42 < karlp> worked good. very happy.
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--- Log opened pe kesä 23 09:04:57 2023
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2023-06-23T09:23:10 < jadew> they found the submarine
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2023-06-23T09:23:48 < jadew> was near the titanic, imploded
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2023-06-23T09:29:35 < jadew> https://www.nytimes.com/article/missing-submarine-titanic-passengers.html
2023-06-23T09:31:43 < jadew> "A Navy official says "an acoustic anomaly consistent with an implosion" was detected shortly after the Titan lost contact with the surface. This official said the information was relayed to the Coast Guard team which used it to narrow the radius of the search area."
2023-06-23T09:31:52 < jadew> they knew from the beginning
2023-06-23T09:34:46 < jadew> apparently the sub disintegrated
2023-06-23T09:45:49 < ventYl> reverse popcorn
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2023-06-23T11:15:03 < benishor> I guess that business is ded
2023-06-23T11:49:56 < ventYl> well, one of passengers was the CEO and owner of the company
2023-06-23T11:50:25 < ventYl> they only had this one vessel which wasn't certified and they stated certifications are slowing down innovation
2023-06-23T11:50:31 < ventYl> I pretty much guess they do
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2023-06-23T13:37:33 < jadew> I wonder if they ever used it before
2023-06-23T13:37:38 < jadew> I didn't come across any information on that
2023-06-23T13:38:54 < jadew> how fast do you think you'd die at that depth?
2023-06-23T13:39:08 < jadew> I think seconds
2023-06-23T13:50:42 < ventYl> probably orders of milliseconds
2023-06-23T13:50:50 < jadew> Critics of early steam-spewing locomotives, for example, thought “that women’s bodies were not designed to go at 50 miles an hour,” and worried that “[female passengers’] uteruses would fly out of [their] bodies as they were accelerated to that speed”
2023-06-23T13:50:56 < ventYl> they did several attempts before. IIRC this was the fifth submerge
2023-06-23T13:51:42 < jadew> ventYl, you're probably right, just saw a video on that
2023-06-23T13:52:32 < jadew> anyway, back to work, ttyl
2023-06-23T13:53:01 < ventYl> this one is curious, but before Gagarin went up, psychologists were not able to tell what will happen if you leave the planet
2023-06-23T13:55:56 < jadew> they can't even tell there's two sexes, so I'm not surprised
2023-06-23T13:56:38 < jadew> psychologists, as a group, are morons
2023-06-23T14:04:06 < ventYl> I think that the risk was real. Human mind is a bitch and space flight is not easy today, not saying back then. BTW Tereskovova almost collapsed during the flight with episodes of heavy crying and inability to perform any planned work, so they were not that far away.
2023-06-23T14:04:53 < ventYl> I've read some sci-fi books about space flight from before the Gagarin (some '50s) and there was an interesting concept. It is a short novel called "Man of his time".
2023-06-23T14:05:55 < ventYl> It was working with ideas from general relativity and portraied an astronaut who went to Jupiter and back and as a result his mind lived in several-seconds-long lag
2023-06-23T14:08:04 < jadew> going into the unknown will always take a toll on the mind, but it has nothing to do with space
2023-06-23T14:32:03 < jbo> moiun
2023-06-23T14:44:06 < ventYl> jadew: space was also an unknown back then
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2023-06-23T17:24:29 < ColdKeyboard> Maybe a weird question, but in LVGL can you rotate the imgbtn image?
2023-06-23T17:25:09 < ColdKeyboard> for the img object there is lv_img_set_angle(icon, 1800) and the docs say imgbuton supports same functions as img (sans symbols) but for some reason I can't rotate the image...
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2023-06-23T20:44:09 < Ecco2> Heya :)
2023-06-23T20:44:20 < Ecco2> STM32 firmware update via NFC: possible? Dumb idea?
2023-06-23T20:45:43 < jpa-> if it makes sense for the application, why not
2023-06-23T20:46:25 < Ecco2> Ok, let me rephrase: consumer product. What would be the *easiest* technology to let end users (consumers) perform a firmware update?
2023-06-23T20:46:41 < Ecco2> BLE?
2023-06-23T20:47:18 < jpa-> do end users use some application to interact with the device normally?
2023-06-23T20:47:35 < Ecco2> Good question. Let's say no?
2023-06-23T20:48:13 < Ecco2> I'm not sure how it would have an impact though: at the end of the day, it's all about having a communication channel between the MCU and the "outer world"
2023-06-23T20:48:19 < jpa-> then most manufacturers would say BLE application for smartphone, but for some reason they never seem to work well for me, and 10 years from now definitely won't if you don't keep updating it
2023-06-23T20:48:40 < jpa-> USB MSC + uf2 files is pretty standard and has good longevity
2023-06-23T20:48:46 < Ecco2> Indeed
2023-06-23T20:49:05 < Ecco2> Feels a little more technical than BLE tho
2023-06-23T20:49:14 < Ecco2> Also, have you ever used WebBluetooth?
2023-06-23T20:49:20 < jpa-> updating firmware is technical to start with
2023-06-23T20:49:26 < jpa-> most users just won't do it
2023-06-23T20:49:37 < Ecco2> That's a good point
2023-06-23T20:50:29 < ventYl> Ecco2: WebBLE is almost unusable as it doesn't work on Apples (AFAIK)
2023-06-23T20:50:49 < Ecco2> Well, I think only Chrome supports WebBLE, right?
2023-06-23T20:50:58 < Ecco2> So it will most likely not work on iPhones indeed
2023-06-23T20:51:01 < Ecco2> Might work on Macs tho?
2023-06-23T20:51:15 < ventYl> I think it is not turned on by default in Safari
2023-06-23T20:51:22 < ventYl> or at least the last time I checked, it wasn't
2023-06-23T20:51:35 < ventYl> I wanted to use it with my smart watch
2023-06-23T20:51:54 < Ecco2> I don't think it's even *coded* in WebKit
2023-06-23T20:52:07 < Ecco2> Well, yeah, you'd most likely need an app for iOS
2023-06-23T20:52:11 < Ecco2> Which kind of sucks indede
2023-06-23T20:54:05 < jpa-> if you happen to have USB-C for charging or whatever, "connect this and save the downloaded file to the drive" is pretty straightforward
2023-06-23T20:54:06 < ventYl> well, once you need to code an app, it is easier to do it once in something like C++ and wrap it for iOS and Android
2023-06-23T20:54:20 < ventYl> ^^ this
2023-06-23T20:54:57 < ventYl> with BLE update you need to have a bootloader being able to revert to the old firmware if the new one fails to work properly
2023-06-23T20:55:39 < Ecco2> jpa- : yeah you're right
2023-06-23T20:55:47 < ventYl> failing firmware would effectively mean bricked device as bluetooth stack is such a heavy bastard you can't put it into bootloader
2023-06-23T20:56:10 < Ecco2> Never thought of that part
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2023-06-23T21:18:25 < nomorekaki> I have some virus in my comfuser
2023-06-23T21:18:51 < nomorekaki> it says reboot is required to upgrade to win11
2023-06-23T21:19:06 < specing> there's no such thing as win11
2023-06-23T21:19:16 < specing> MS said 10 is the last version
2023-06-23T21:19:26 < nomorekaki> indeed
2023-06-23T21:20:10 < nomorekaki> I googled this virus and aparently you cannot remove this virus after it has infected the computer
2023-06-23T21:20:55 < nomorekaki> only reinstalling win10 every time it gets infected works
2023-06-23T21:20:56 < ventYl> move to linux
2023-06-23T21:21:00 < nomorekaki> y
2023-06-23T21:21:12 < nomorekaki> m..maybe
2023-06-23T21:21:18 < ventYl> alternatively, if you disable TPM in bios, your machine will become incapable of running win11
2023-06-23T21:21:34 < ventYl> anyway, internally windows 11 is 10.2xxx something
2023-06-23T21:21:37 < ventYl> there is no windows 11
2023-06-23T21:21:44 < nomorekaki> y
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2023-06-23T21:31:14 < nomorekaki> apparently ameliorated win11 is better than win10 version
2023-06-23T21:31:27 < nomorekaki> even winupdate works?
2023-06-23T21:32:20 < ventYl> IDK, I have ever only ran something like castrated version of Win11 inside QEMU
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2023-06-23T21:42:30 < Ecco2> I'm looking at the datasheet of STM32WBA52xx
2023-06-23T21:42:35 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2023-06-23T21:43:47 < Ecco2> The first page of the datasheet says "200 nA Standby mode with RTC"
2023-06-23T21:45:07 < Ecco2> But I can't seem to reconcile this with the table further down in the datasheet
2023-06-23T21:45:08 < Ecco2> https://i.imgur.com/C1Qlp52.png
2023-06-23T21:45:15 < Ecco2> Do you guys know what I might be missing?
2023-06-23T21:45:35 -!- Linux_Kerio [~Linux_Ker@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2023-06-23T21:48:43 < Ecco2> https://i.imgur.com/1Eibl5Y.png (this is the front page)
2023-06-23T21:57:32 < qyx> that table looks weird
2023-06-23T21:57:46 < qyx> too high figures for standby
2023-06-23T21:59:08 < Ecco2> Apparently there are two "versions" : ULPMEN=1 or ULPMEN=0
2023-06-23T21:59:17 < Ecco2> And ULPMEN=1 being the "low power" variant
2023-06-23T21:59:27 < Ecco2> For some reason, they never show numbers with RTC and ULMPEN=1
2023-06-23T21:59:57 < Ecco2> https://i.imgur.com/Oe45iol.png
2023-06-23T22:06:19 < Ecco2> So I guess the question is "can RTC run with ULMPEN=1" and if so, why is it not in the datasheet?
2023-06-23T22:07:18 < Ecco2> Also, on a related note: how comes the current draw is *higher* when VDD is higher?
2023-06-23T22:07:38 < Ecco2> I would assume the power draw to remain constant, so the current to drop when VDD is higher
2023-06-23T22:07:51 < Ecco2> or, at least, I would expect the current to remain constant (if they'd use an LDO internally)
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2023-06-23T22:09:15 < Laurence_b> lol if true https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=22942468&cid=63624214
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--- Day changed la kesä 24 2023
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2023-06-24T00:27:25 < Laurence_b> >Go woke, get crushed
2023-06-24T00:27:27 < Laurence_b> kekking
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2023-06-24T01:30:18 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/alexeheath/status/1671685943349346304#m
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2023-06-24T02:15:31 < Steffanx> Musics for mawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwsTL-3XPHY
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2023-06-24T20:47:34 < englishman> PaulFertser: i hope your and your close ones stay safe
2023-06-24T20:49:28 < PaulFertser> englishman: thank you, I really appreciate people wishing me and my relatives good.
2023-06-24T20:50:06 < PaulFertser> englishman: btw, he just declared they're returning back to the camps. No idea what it really means in the end, but I can only hope civilians won't be harmed in the end either way.
2023-06-24T20:50:46 < PaulFertser> Of course, the russian civilians will have to pay reparations compensations etc when the big war is over, that they deserved...
2023-06-24T20:50:50 < englishman> i saw that but i also saw this https://t.me/wagner_ap_chvk/76 so who knows.
2023-06-24T20:56:31 < PaulFertser> We'll see. Having illegal army for so long time means troubles were guaranteed. We do not just know the extent of them.
2023-06-24T21:23:50 < jpa-> has russia ever paid reparations..
2023-06-24T21:26:21 < PaulFertser> Not yet.
2023-06-24T21:34:38 < PaulFertser> Guess he'll get killed soon unless he manages to hide under fake identity in Argentina or something like that. I'd say that's the most likely plan. Promise amnesty to everybody, then just kill the most prominent leaders, then take the full illegal army under control.
2023-06-24T21:38:25 < PaulFertser> If only all those lunatic madmen were only killing each other and not people who just want to live their lives in peace...
2023-06-24T21:41:09 < Steffanx> That channel now has a "fake" tag englishman 
2023-06-24T21:41:11 < catphish> does anyone know if it's practical to run CAN from HSI? (speficically the G4 HSI (+/- 1%)
2023-06-24T21:41:29 < englishman> nice
2023-06-24T21:44:10 < Steffanx> Doesn't CAN require like 0.5% catphish ?
2023-06-24T21:44:18 < Steffanx> Less than*
2023-06-24T21:44:23 < catphish> Steffanx: i don't know, i was trying to find that information
2023-06-24T21:45:55 < PaulFertser> catphish: you might find this useful: http://www.nxp.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/app_note/AN1798.pdf
2023-06-24T21:46:16 < catphish> that gives me a 404
2023-06-24T21:46:19 < Steffanx> Was about to dump that hete
2023-06-24T21:46:25 < Steffanx> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN1798.pdf 
2023-06-24T21:46:34 < catphish> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN1798.pdf
2023-06-24T21:46:36 < catphish> found it
2023-06-24T21:46:38 < Steffanx> Here.
2023-06-24T21:59:40 < qyx> catphish: no, it works to an extent
2023-06-24T22:00:13 < catphish> thanks, i wanted the official answer, so if it doesn't definitely work, i'll ass a crystal
2023-06-24T22:01:20 < qyx> it usualy dies when heated or so
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2023-06-24T22:14:02 < catphish> *add
2023-06-24T22:14:38 < jpa-> i know usb hs works to an extent, but then 10 years later didn't work anymore
2023-06-24T22:14:52 < jpa-> err
2023-06-24T22:14:54 < jpa-> fs
2023-06-24T22:15:28 < jpa-> (on stm32l1 hsi)
2023-06-24T22:29:25 < catphish> now i just need to understand what speed crystal i need
2023-06-24T22:30:55 < catphish> cubeMX tells me that if i use a 16MHz clock, a prescaer of 1, and seg1/seg2 times of 15 and 16, i will get 500kbps, but i think i want to better understand what those numbers mean before i commit!
2023-06-24T22:32:43 < ventYl> can PHY is oversampled
2023-06-24T22:33:13 < ventYl> those seg1/2 timers are switch and sample trigger, or something like that
2023-06-24T22:33:40 < ventYl> *shift and sample triggers
2023-06-24T22:35:00 < catphish> just found tn1346-spc58x-configuring-can-and-canfd-bit-timing-parameters-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2023-06-24T22:37:03 < catphish> not sure how i'm supposed to choose the sample point, they use 75% in the examples
2023-06-24T22:38:13 < ventYl> that's to stabilize the line after transition
2023-06-24T22:39:08 < ventYl> probably the later the better. I remember seeing some reasoning for these 75%, but I don't remember the details anymore
2023-06-24T22:39:56 < catphish> actually it's more complex than that, there's "data bit" timing, and "nominal bit" timing
2023-06-24T22:40:22 < ventYl> that's only for FD, isn't it?
2023-06-24T22:40:56 < ventYl> with FD you have BRS bit. If it is set, then you use different clock and sample point for data portion of the message
2023-06-24T22:44:56 < jpa-> catphish: you can pll pretty much any common freq out of e.g. 8MHz or 16MHz crystal
2023-06-24T22:45:38 < catphish> jpa-: that's probably true, but i wasn't planning to use the PLL, i have no particular reason not to, just assume it won't be necessary
2023-06-24T22:46:27 < catphish> i'd imgine 16MHz is the right crystal though regardless
2023-06-24T22:47:02 < catphish> it divides nicely down to the 500jbps i want
2023-06-24T22:47:13 < catphish> *kbps
2023-06-24T23:04:28 < catphish> i'm still very confused by TN1346
2023-06-24T23:05:33 < catphish> on page 5-6 it describes a 1Mbps standard CAN configuration, but on page 6 it suddenly and withut explanation provides values for DTSEG1/DTSEG2
2023-06-24T23:06:09 < nomorekaki> catphish: have you enjoyed your opel?
2023-06-24T23:06:19 < catphish> nomorekaki: yes
2023-06-24T23:06:23 < nomorekaki> have you visited car meets etc. ?
2023-06-24T23:06:38 < nomorekaki> track?
2023-06-24T23:06:46 < nomorekaki> daily?
2023-06-24T23:07:33 < catphish> right now just daily (i don't drive that many miles)
2023-06-24T23:07:50 < catphish> i don't want to take it on the track, but might find some meets
2023-06-24T23:08:43 < catphish> it's also in a magazine this month :)
2023-06-24T23:13:56 < nomorekaki> sub brief talks about titan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
2023-06-24T23:16:16 < catphish> ah, this document does clearly state "In CAN-FD mode both registers must be programmed, while in standard CAN mode it is needed to only configure the NBTP register."
2023-06-24T23:17:34 < ventYl> you can program both the same if you don't plan to use bitrate switching
2023-06-24T23:17:46 < ventYl> which you probably shouldn't if you can fit into 500kbps bandwidth
2023-06-24T23:20:23 < nomorekaki> known test depth 3000m, passengers bolted in from outside, controlled by wireless controller, athmospheric control unknown, secondary life support systems not known, no submarine subject matter experts on the team, no certifications, experimental hull structure
2023-06-24T23:21:52 < nomorekaki> apparently no voice commucations because the operator didn't like surface team bothering him with status updates
2023-06-24T23:24:11 < nomorekaki> new test depth during commercial operation
2023-06-24T23:25:11 < catphish> ventYl: i'm only doing regular CAN not FDCAN, so bitrate switching isn't an option
2023-06-24T23:25:53 < catphish> now i remember why i hate using crystals, i need to worry about the load capacitors, and every time, i have no idea what i'm doing :)
2023-06-24T23:25:56 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: you like western https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICPyrnGYwg ?
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2023-06-24T23:30:01 < catphish> is there a "normal" load capacitor value for a 9pF crystal?
2023-06-24T23:31:33 < zyp> catphish, https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/crystal-load-wisdom.txt#L15
2023-06-24T23:31:40 < catphish> sexy
2023-06-24T23:34:43 < catphish> so probably about 10pf caps
2023-06-24T23:41:36 < nomorekaki> more like 15pf
2023-06-24T23:42:40 < nomorekaki> 2 x your crystal minus couple of puffs
2023-06-24T23:45:45 < nomorekaki> "Cstray is the pin capacitance and board or trace PCB-related capacitance. Typically, it is
2023-06-24T23:45:45 < nomorekaki> between 2 and 7 pF."
2023-06-24T23:46:41 < nomorekaki> hmm wait
2023-06-24T23:48:23 < nomorekaki> stm32f103c8.pdf page54
2023-06-24T23:50:25 < nomorekaki> is conflicting with https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/LPC1769_68_67_66_65_64_63.pdf page 74
2023-06-24T23:50:26 < catphish> i found only one discussion of this crystal, and they said 12pf, which seems to be roughly between what you said and what i said, so i'm gonna go with that
2023-06-24T23:50:37 < nomorekaki> ah first one is for RTC crystal
2023-06-24T23:50:43 < nomorekaki> AN2867 is for main crystal
2023-06-24T23:51:14 < nomorekaki> file:///C:/Users/Janne/Downloads/an2867-oscillator-design-guide-for-stm8afals-stm32-mcus-and-mpus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2023-06-24T23:51:16 < nomorekaki> oops
2023-06-24T23:51:25 < qyx> good one
2023-06-24T23:51:31 < nomorekaki> there you go
2023-06-24T23:51:38 < Steffanx> Don't you have a datasheet catphish ?
2023-06-24T23:51:53 < catphish> Steffanx: for what?
2023-06-24T23:53:04 < Steffanx> The crystal, the mcu.
2023-06-24T23:54:02 < Steffanx> I mean "I found some discussion and they said..." sounds like: I have no datasheet so not sure what load capacitance it needs ;)
2023-06-24T23:54:44 < nomorekaki> AN2867 page 12 catphish
2023-06-24T23:55:13 < catphish> Steffanx: i wasn't aware that either datasheet could know
2023-06-24T23:56:05 < nomorekaki> assume stray capacitance being few puffs maybe 3 or 4 but not 7
2023-06-24T23:56:24 < Steffanx> It should tell you the load it needs, and when you know that you can calculate the actual cap
2023-06-24T23:56:47 < Steffanx> But that was already said 😜
2023-06-24T23:56:50 < catphish> Steffanx: oh, sure, it's 9pf
2023-06-24T23:57:18 < catphish> so 9pf - 3pf = 6pf, 6pf x 2 = 12pf, which is what i uncertainly concluded :)
--- Day changed su kesä 25 2023
2023-06-25T00:06:19  * qyx rages about unportable code again
2023-06-25T00:06:24 < qyx> https://github.com/marcelobarrosalmeida/kved
2023-06-25T00:06:51 < qyx> when will people learn how to do proper "porting callbacks"
2023-06-25T00:07:47 < qyx> also, his files only contain (c) without specifying the copyleft license
2023-06-25T00:08:11 < qyx> (license.md does have it though)
2023-06-25T00:13:27 < Steffanx> How is implementing some functions equal to unportable qyx?
2023-06-25T00:14:37 < qyx> no instance reference possible?
2023-06-25T00:14:39 < qyx> no DI?
2023-06-25T00:14:49 < qyx> not possible to support multiple flash memories?
2023-06-25T00:15:35 < qyx> yes it is unportable because there are environments in which this code cannot run
2023-06-25T00:18:11 < qyx> he only provided a way to specify how a flash memory should be accessed
2023-06-25T00:18:29 < qyx> and not which flash memory shoudl be accessed
2023-06-25T00:18:59 < qyx> this looks a bit better https://github.com/armink/FlashDB
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2023-06-25T00:21:06 < qyx> okay nope
2023-06-25T00:21:08 < qyx> https://armink.github.io/FlashDB/#/porting
2023-06-25T00:21:20 < qyx> this is the opposite extreme
2023-06-25T00:21:49 < qyx> for whose god's sake do they mess with partition tables and defining them statically
2023-06-25T00:22:21 < qyx> are they a flashDB library or a do-all-the.shit library
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2023-06-25T00:46:42 < ventYl> ah fuck
2023-06-25T00:46:59 < ventYl> superdumb pico sdk has another brutally negative implication
2023-06-25T00:50:43 < Steffanx> So it's portable but doesn't suit your needs.
2023-06-25T00:52:32 < Steffanx> Sounds like it's time to roll your own qyx :)
2023-06-25T00:56:06 < qyx> always roll your own, I heard that in the past
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2023-06-25T02:40:51 < Laurence_b> autastic meltdown level: Prigozhin
2023-06-25T02:50:07 < specing> Laurence_b: lol, better: 2023 russian army second best army in russia
2023-06-25T03:02:18 < Laurence_b> lol he got b& from telegram
2023-06-25T03:02:34 < Laurence_b> seems you have to try a bit harder to get b& than on twitter
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2023-06-25T03:13:16 < nomorekaki> Laurence_b: old news but here is sub brief on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
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2023-06-25T21:59:15 < josuah> <ventYl> superdumb pico sdk has another brutally negative implication
2023-06-25T21:59:19 < josuah> curious to know more about it!
2023-06-25T22:00:35 < catphish> morning, i'm looking at USB again, and i'm still mildly confused about sending more than 64 bytes of data. would appreciate talking this through with someone who knows how it works! right now i have a send() function, which writes up to 64 bytes of data to a buffer and marks it as ready to send, this seems to work fine, but since the buffer is only 64 bytes, i have no way to send more than that.
2023-06-25T22:00:35 < catphish> is the correct solution to create a second buffer of my own, write an unlimited amount of data into it, and then just keep sending up to 64 bytes from it whenever possible? this makes sense for a normal bulk stream, but will the same work for EP0 requests like getting descriptors?
2023-06-25T22:01:08 < catphish> do i just assume that the USB host will always keep requesting data as long as i have more to send in this case?
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2023-06-25T22:59:56 < ventYl> josuah: it's dead simple actually. pico_stdlib is declared as interface library which is super-weird and I consider it a dirty hack or massively incompetent developer. or both at same time.
2023-06-25T23:00:57 < ventYl> josuah: the consequence of this is that pico_stdlib gets rebuild with each and every target you link it to. normally, it is just one or maybe two targets.
2023-06-25T23:01:43 < ventYl> josuah: but I have quite large group of functional / qualification / software tests (dozens) which are all built against pico_stdlib. moreover, I do use static libraries in there, so I get pico_stdlib compiled twice per test
2023-06-25T23:02:10 < ventYl> josuah: that's awfull shitload of time spent for nothing
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2023-06-25T23:30:42 < nomorekaki> youtubs algo is weird again
2023-06-25T23:31:09 < nomorekaki> it shows me videos of people dying on mount everest
2023-06-25T23:34:18 < nomorekaki> maybe it's trending
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2023-06-25T23:57:47 < josuah> ventYl: I'm not too fond of CMake as opposed to Makefiles.
2023-06-25T23:58:16 < josuah> but I see what you mean...
2023-06-25T23:58:36 < josuah> would you have prefered somethink like a `libgpio.a`, `libuart.a`, etc. be built instead?
2023-06-25T23:58:44 < josuah> I suppose they do it like this for configuration variables...
2023-06-25T23:59:07 < josuah> Sad to hear you have to spend so much time a compilation command to finish :(
--- Day changed ma kesä 26 2023
2023-06-26T00:00:52 < josuah> surprised to see the RP2040 used for something more serious than educational/tinkering use-cases!
2023-06-26T00:01:20 < josuah> although... Makefiles are sometimes making automation harder, i.e. getting a list of all source files, out-of-tree builds...
2023-06-26T00:11:29 < ventYl> josuah: CMake generates makefiles in the end. this is not a problem of CMake itself as the way how pico-sdk is written is *highly* non-standard
2023-06-26T00:11:34 < ventYl> I'd even say abusive
2023-06-26T00:15:03 < zyp> doesn't cmake usually generate ninja files nowadays?
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2023-06-26T00:16:15 < ventYl> afaik the default is makefiles on unix and msbuild shit on windows
2023-06-26T00:18:20 < zyp> that sounds like outdated info
2023-06-26T00:18:51 < zyp> most cmake stuff that I've seen generates ninja files
2023-06-26T00:19:38 < qyx> what's thay, I don't like turtles
2023-06-26T00:21:00 < zyp> I spent a workday hacking on zephyr's cmake stuff a couple of weeks ago, cmake still seems pretty awful
2023-06-26T00:21:04 < ventYl> well, one thing is what is the default. another is what is used
2023-06-26T00:21:19 < zyp> yeah?
2023-06-26T00:21:29 < zyp> I'd expect that also to be ninja
2023-06-26T00:21:31 < ventYl> default is makefile, but you can pass -G Ninja and will get ninja if you wish
2023-06-26T00:21:53 < zyp> okay
2023-06-26T00:22:11 < josuah> sometimes, I am tempted to consider windows support at just WSL2 
2023-06-26T00:22:20 < ventYl> you can also override the default using preload file
2023-06-26T00:22:23 < josuah> i.e. as a build environment
2023-06-26T00:22:24 < zyp> for zephyr, you don't invoke cmake directly, it's invoked by west
2023-06-26T00:22:34 < josuah> oh right ^_^
2023-06-26T00:22:37 < josuah> wrap it up!
2023-06-26T00:22:37 < zyp> west build blah blah
2023-06-26T00:23:10 < ventYl> I had to override msbuild to makefiles for $automotive project on windows
2023-06-26T00:23:30 < josuah> zyp: my gut feeling is it is to avoid the many-fold nested submodules
2023-06-26T00:24:02 < josuah> and have all the content of reponame/lib/dependency/lib/dependency/lib/dependency/... flattened out as a single namespace
2023-06-26T00:24:02 < zyp> idk
2023-06-26T00:24:05 < ventYl> well, doing any kind of configuration inside makefiles sucks
2023-06-26T00:24:17 < ventYl> it sucks since like early '90s, that why autohell was made
2023-06-26T00:24:33 < ventYl> but it sucks too
2023-06-26T00:24:48 < ventYl> so cmake was made and the more features it has, the more it sucks
2023-06-26T00:24:56 < zyp> what I was doing was editing some build postprocessing step, i.e. hex extraction/merging
2023-06-26T00:25:21 < josuah> for simple projects, Makefiles work, but it is hard to make things a bit dynamic...
2023-06-26T00:25:49 < josuah> ventYl: do you prefer the approach of other languages with a standard layout for projects and a command that automatically build it?
2023-06-26T00:25:52 < zyp> our firmware got some production test stubs stored at a given flash location, and we want those in the full .hex that gets initially flashed to a target, but we don't want those in OTA images
2023-06-26T00:26:48 < josuah> zyp: some ful image with bootloader, vs only the application?
2023-06-26T00:27:09 < qyx> it looks like there is no default generator
2023-06-26T00:27:19 < catphish> well i'm gonna just try what i said with the USB, but if it catches fire, i'm blaming you guys
2023-06-26T00:27:20 < qyx> instead it uses some selection algo
2023-06-26T00:27:33 < zyp> I couldn't find any usable integration points in the cmake stuff to just add another section to the list of sections to strip, so I ended up just patching the main zephyr cmake rules
2023-06-26T00:27:49 < qyx> so if ninja is not installed, it apparently doesn't use ninja generator
2023-06-26T00:27:55 < zyp> and then I added my own rules for extracting the section to a separate file and merging it back into the full image
2023-06-26T00:28:35 < zyp> bit messy, but we're already maintaining a zephyr fork with a few internal patches, so another oneliner patch doesn't really hurt
2023-06-26T00:28:47 < josuah> catphish: just noticed your message... I worked a bit with USB but I am bad at it, so YMMV...
2023-06-26T00:28:54 < josuah> but I'm up for trying
2023-06-26T00:28:54 < ventYl> josuah: that approach only works for limited sets of target. even rust's cargo is useless if you want to build for embedded and/or merge with C
2023-06-26T00:28:55 < zyp> and it cuts the size of the OTA images with like 30%
2023-06-26T00:29:28 < qyx> zyp: what, zephyr cuts?
2023-06-26T00:29:38 < qyx> or the patch
2023-06-26T00:29:40 < zyp> my patch does
2023-06-26T00:30:04 < qyx> do you use some sort of vcdiff or other code compression?
2023-06-26T00:30:10 < zyp> not because the production test code is huge, but because it's at a fixed location, so having it in the OTA image means also having all the padding between it and the application area
2023-06-26T00:30:19 < zyp> nope
2023-06-26T00:30:35 < zyp> I don't think we customize the OTA image format at all
2023-06-26T00:31:04 < zyp> and yeah, just gzipping it or whatever would have eliminated any padding overhead
2023-06-26T00:31:15 < zyp> even a simple RLE encoder would
2023-06-26T00:31:22 < josuah> <catphish> right now i have a send() function, which writes [...]
2023-06-26T00:31:23 < josuah> so this is a custom USB protocol? i.e. not some CDC?
2023-06-26T00:31:52 < zyp> ventYl, for flexibility, I've yet to find something that rivals scons
2023-06-26T00:32:18 < zyp> I'm not entirely happy with scons, but for embedded it still seems like the least worst solution
2023-06-26T00:32:21 < ventYl> zyp: personally I don't like it nor find it trully more useful than CMake
2023-06-26T00:32:59 < josuah> <catphish> the USB host will always keep requesting data as long as i have more to senD
2023-06-26T00:33:01 < josuah> my understanding of USB is that the host always requests the data, constantly polling the peripherals for any mode
2023-06-26T00:33:08 < ventYl> if you don't try to abuse CMake, your embedded CMakeLists.txt may looks as lean and as standard as pretty much any desktop hello world
2023-06-26T00:33:14 < zyp> for host side stuff, I've used meson for a few projects and are overall happy with that
2023-06-26T00:33:30 < ventYl> the problem with CMake is, that it is pretty tolerant to abuse, so many CMakeLists looks like a bag of puke
2023-06-26T00:33:44 < ventYl> microsoft hacked their package manager into toolchain file
2023-06-26T00:33:56 < zyp> meson seems like it's cmake if cmake were designed by sane people
2023-06-26T00:33:59 < josuah> <catphish> create a second buffer of my own, write an unlimited amount of data into it, and then just keep sending up to 64 bytes
2023-06-26T00:34:00 < josuah> that sounds reasonable! that could be a ring buffer for instance?
2023-06-26T00:34:27 < ventYl> meson looks like subset of modern CMake written in python
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2023-06-26T00:35:00 < zyp> maybe
2023-06-26T00:35:44  * josuah hands catphish a matchbox
2023-06-26T00:35:47 < josuah> for the fire...
2023-06-26T00:35:58 < zyp> I use meson for stuff when I'm like «I want this shit built as a library and this shit built as an application, and those linked together and I don't want to think about how that happens»
2023-06-26T00:36:02 < catphish> josuah: sorry wandered off for a moment, i'm trying to implement CDC
2023-06-26T00:36:37 < ventYl> I fully agree, that procedural CMake us fugly though
2023-06-26T00:36:56 < josuah> catphish: oh, implement rather than use (from a lib)?
2023-06-26T00:37:09 < catphish> yes, i'm implementing it on bare metal STM32
2023-06-26T00:37:18 < josuah> what about TinyUSB? either as a dependency or for inspiration?
2023-06-26T00:38:11 < catphish> i'm just trying what i said previously, if the host requests 100 bytes of data, i'll try sending 64 bytes, then sending the other 36 bytes and hope that's all that's needed
2023-06-26T00:38:12 < josuah> it has a few things like macros for USB descriptors or piping around figured out already, some chunks of it could be good resources even if not used directly
2023-06-26T00:39:33 < zyp> catphish, that is correct
2023-06-26T00:40:07 < zyp> catphish, remember the way USB peripheral buffering works
2023-06-26T00:40:07 < josuah> https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/src/class/cdc/cdc_device.c#L201
2023-06-26T00:40:17 < josuah> https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/src/device/usbd.c#L1241
2023-06-26T00:40:18 < catphish> zyp: thanks, i'll give it a try, it's a major rewrite of my code because i'll need to implement a soft buffer which i don't have right now
2023-06-26T00:40:46 < zyp> catphish, for IN transfers, you put data to send in the peripheral's buffer memory, and then once it receives an IN token from the host, it responds with data from the buffer
2023-06-26T00:40:47 < josuah> just for curiosity
2023-06-26T00:40:51 < ventYl> zyp: works fairly good with CMake as well: https://github.com/ventZl/arm-bare-rtos/blob/master/examples/rp2040/CMakeLists.txt
2023-06-26T00:41:10 < zyp> once that succeeds, you write the next chunk into the peripheral memory
2023-06-26T00:41:20 < catphish> zyp: sure, and that's fine for sending data up to the size of the peripheral buffer memory
2023-06-26T00:41:25 < catphish> ie 64 bytes
2023-06-26T00:41:28 < zyp> yes
2023-06-26T00:41:43 < catphish> so i need to add a secondary buffer
2023-06-26T00:42:01 < catphish> and coy 64 bytes at a time into the peripheral buffer, hopefully that won't be too hard :)
2023-06-26T00:42:15 < zyp> yeah, you ought to have a concept of transfers
2023-06-26T00:42:50 < zyp> on the host side, when you tell libusb to send or receive something, what you set up is then a transfer
2023-06-26T00:43:15 < zyp> a transfer is made up of zero or more full packets and then one short packet
2023-06-26T00:43:23 < catphish> i recall with bulk transfers, the transfer ends with any packet < 64 bytes in size
2023-06-26T00:43:33 < catphish> ^ what you said
2023-06-26T00:43:34 < qyx> that meson looks good
2023-06-26T00:43:35 < zyp> e.g. you can have a 100B transfer, which will then be made up by a 64B packet and a 36B packet
2023-06-26T00:43:49 < josuah> it looks like it cuts it to the max packet size as well... although not always 64B? https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/src/portable/st/stm32_fsdev/dcd_stm32_fsdev.c#L1134-L1139
2023-06-26T00:43:52 < catphish> with bulk a 64 bytes transfer is 64+0, right?
2023-06-26T00:43:59 < zyp> correct
2023-06-26T00:44:00 < qyx> and mandares out of tree builds, contrary to scons
2023-06-26T00:44:05 < catphish> but with a EP0 request for rescriptors, it's just 64?
2023-06-26T00:44:11 < catphish> *descriptors
2023-06-26T00:44:39 < zyp> with control you can skip the last ZLP as long as the SETUP packet set up a read for exactly 64B
2023-06-26T00:45:18 < catphish> one more question - when should i load the next packet into the peripheral?
2023-06-26T00:45:44 < catphish> should i be lookng at CTR_TX, or should i be looking at STAT_TX
2023-06-26T00:45:46 < zyp> in other words, a control transfer can end with a full packet if you're returning exactly the length the host asked for, otherwise it needs to end with a short transfer so the host gets told it's getting less data than it asked for
2023-06-26T00:46:00 < josuah> no status register/interrupt for telling when ready?
2023-06-26T00:46:19 < catphish> josuah: yes, there seems to be 2 obvious options
2023-06-26T00:46:21 < zyp> uh, I don't remember, whatever tells you the previous packet was sent so the buffer is now available again
2023-06-26T00:46:50 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/stm32_usb.h?h=dev_v2#n161 < wna
2023-06-26T00:46:51 < catphish> STAT_TX tells you that the buffer is available, CTR_TX tells you that the previous transfer finished successfully
2023-06-26T00:46:56 < zyp> whatever that is, that's what I use
2023-06-26T00:47:20 < catphish> i think STAT_TX is what i want, as long as the buffer is ready, i can use it
2023-06-26T00:47:27 < zyp> I think that's what I use
2023-06-26T00:48:01 < catphish> zyp: yep, looks like you use bits 4-5 (STAT_TX)
2023-06-26T00:48:06 < zyp> because endpoint is in the idle (NAK?) state whenever it's empty
2023-06-26T00:48:06 < catphish> thanks
2023-06-26T00:48:20 < zyp> while CTR only get set after the first packet went out
2023-06-26T00:48:30 < catphish> yeah, that seems to be the right option, i'm not sure why one would look at CTR_TX
2023-06-26T00:48:31  * josuah takes a good breath of #stm32 USB discussions
2023-06-26T00:48:32 < josuah> feels plug-and-play!
2023-06-26T00:48:56 < zyp> also, wrt. control requests
2023-06-26T00:49:26 < zyp> personally I always just stick a ZLP in the buffer after a full packet
2023-06-26T00:50:07 < zyp> worst case host just doesn't poll for it and I think it gets flushed once a new SETUP token arrives
2023-06-26T00:50:07 < josuah> > At the end of each transaction the CTR_RX or CTR_TX bit of the addressed endpoint USB_EPnR register is set, depending on the enabled direction.
2023-06-26T00:50:08 < catphish> won't that block the next transfer?
2023-06-26T00:50:33 < zyp> I think it's automatically flushed, but I might be wrong
2023-06-26T00:50:57 < catphish> i'll have a play now, thanks for confirming
2023-06-26T01:41:41 < karlp> ventYl: no, silabs at least, ahs btle capable standalone bootloader, 14kB or something, you don't need to have revert to old firmware shits
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2023-06-26T16:26:51 < mawk> it's ublox firmware update party
2023-06-26T16:27:17 < mawk> I need to update all the SARA-G340/G350 with old firmware I find in the warehouse
2023-06-26T16:28:17 < mawk> it takes around 5 minutes per device at full speed (921600 bauds, ie 100 KiB/s)
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2023-06-26T16:44:46 < ventYl> after 25th you'll start making fatal mistakes
2023-06-26T16:53:40 -!- CygniX [~CygniX@user/CygniX] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2023-06-26T16:53:58 < mawk> impossible
2023-06-26T16:54:02 < mawk> I never make any
2023-06-26T16:54:27 < mawk> also I made a beautiful .bat file to do it for me:
2023-06-26T16:54:30 < mawk> "%~dp0\shell_EasyFlash.exe" -pSARA-G3 -c4 -b921600
2023-06-26T16:55:00 < mawk> easyflush is the shitty software they give us to upgrade modems through their auxiliary UART interfaces
2023-06-26T16:55:07 < mawk> ie, in a R&D setting
2023-06-26T16:55:30 -!- CygniX [~CygniX@user/CygniX] has joined ##stm32
2023-06-26T16:56:20 < mawk> the versioning scheme is insane and different incompatible versions are floating around, some private available on request from u-blox, some versions publicly available
2023-06-26T16:56:33 < mawk> and it's not really documented how to use it
2023-06-26T16:57:02 < mawk> some versions don't even have a file selector to choose the firmware, so you have to guess that you should place the .dof file in the same location as the easyflash.exe file
2023-06-26T16:57:26 < mawk> and to downgrade firmwares you again have to guess to add the rollback .rof file alongside the .dof
2023-06-26T16:57:32 < mawk> thanks Richard
2023-06-26T17:04:52 -!- CygniX [~CygniX@user/CygniX] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2023-06-26T17:06:07 < ventYl> that's disgusting
2023-06-26T17:06:42 < ventYl> as disgusting as $automotive static code analyzer which I only ever managed to spit out human-readable text report once in three years
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2023-06-26T17:41:08 < Steffanx> Don't hate Richard, mawk.
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2023-06-26T18:20:59 < tct> EVERYTHING SUCKS
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2023-06-26T18:35:05 < zyp> ok
2023-06-26T18:41:50 < Steffanx> Poor tct
2023-06-26T18:43:19 < englishman> if space is a vacuum howcome it's the earth that sucks?
2023-06-26T18:51:51 < Steffanx> It's not just earth. it's EVERYTHING 
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2023-06-26T19:25:03 < qyx> tct: any current issues? kittens got lost?
2023-06-26T20:14:48 < jpa-> tct: are you in vacuum cleaner business now?
2023-06-26T20:16:28 < Steffanx> Tct tct tct. 
2023-06-26T20:23:47 < tct> meeeeeh
2023-06-26T20:23:50 < tct> linux
2023-06-26T20:25:18 < Steffanx> Lunix is fine 
2023-06-26T20:28:12 < tct> you don't know how nice BSD is
2023-06-26T20:28:17 < tct> even R2COM switched D:
2023-06-26T20:29:57 < qyx> I guess that's more like a con than a pro
2023-06-26T20:31:24 < tct> :D
2023-06-26T20:32:38 < Steffanx> Who the fuck is R2COM?
2023-06-26T20:39:23 < Steffanx> Still with your stm32mp thingy tct?
2023-06-26T20:41:22 < tct> Steffanx, oh fuck no. I ditched that after a week of headaches
2023-06-26T20:41:26 < tct> Steffanx, went SAMA5D instead
2023-06-26T20:42:52 < Steffanx> Haha lol
2023-06-26T20:43:56 < Steffanx> But youre still unhappy..
2023-06-26T20:48:35 < tct> that's just me being unnecessarily salty
2023-06-26T20:51:41 < Steffanx> I see. Another thing you and AreTooCommie share 😝
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2023-06-26T22:49:15 < tct> a friend of mine just asked me whether I know LoRa stuff. apparently "only 10% to 20% of the messages are received" (generic af, I know). LoRa is more of a fire-and-forget situation, right? i.e. it's perfectly "expectable" that sometimes stuff doesn't "appear" on either end?
2023-06-26T22:51:53 < qyx> yes if you transmit unconfirmed messages
2023-06-26T22:52:17 < qyx> and it depends on the coverage and congestion, etc.
2023-06-26T22:52:36 < qyx> LoRa is basically sh.t
2023-06-26T22:58:50 < tct> :D
2023-06-26T23:04:43 < Laurence_b> ree octave is failing to load simulink mat files
2023-06-26T23:05:13 < Laurence_b> error: octave_base_value::print (): wrong type argument '<unknown type>'
2023-06-26T23:05:15 < Laurence_b> noice
2023-06-26T23:05:40 < begriffs> CMSIS-Driver documentation has a table listing which interfaces have implementations for which devices. But where actually are the implementations?  https://arm-software.github.io/CMSIS_5/develop/Driver/html/listOfImplementations.html
2023-06-26T23:06:29 < begriffs> For instance, STM32F4xx
2023-06-26T23:10:23 < qyx> tct: I am awaiting a fully coreless, ipv6 capable and easily deployable technology to emerge
2023-06-26T23:10:55 < qyx> because LoRa is makers grade and cloud based only
2023-06-26T23:10:58 < ventYl> Laurence_b: AFAIK Octave does not have feature parity with simulink
2023-06-26T23:11:30 < qyx> (yes 6lowpan)
2023-06-26T23:11:42 < Laurence_b> 6lowpan has huge overhead
2023-06-26T23:11:53 < qyx> lora too
2023-06-26T23:11:55 < ventYl> begriffs: STM32F4Cube
2023-06-26T23:11:57 < qyx> *lorawan too
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2023-06-26T23:28:22 < begriffs> ventYl interesting, I see this directory https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/tree/master/Drivers but if I look for USART, it's in STM32F4xx_HAL_Driver but not in CMSIS
2023-06-26T23:29:00 < begriffs> Does the CMSIS-Driver interface for USART work using the HAL implementation or something?
2023-06-26T23:48:35 < karlp> cmsis has zero to do with peripherals.
2023-06-26T23:49:15 < karlp> hangon sorry, cmsis-driver is something new to me, never seen taht before.
2023-06-26T23:49:26 < karlp> I didnt know anyone ws using it.
2023-06-26T23:49:32 < karlp> I only know it was talked about
2023-06-26T23:49:33 < qyx> I only read rage about in on the webs
2023-06-26T23:49:49 < karlp> yo, we put middlewares in your middlewares, so you can middleware on top of the other hals on top of the other hals
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--- Day changed ti kesä 27 2023
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2023-06-27T00:41:45 < begriffs> I don't really use it for real, but was learning about cmsis and saw they also have that driver interface thing
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2023-06-27T01:05:27 < Laurence_b> does anyone here have matlab?
2023-06-27T01:20:21 < Steffanx> Hyperloop boss won't pay for a loicense?
2023-06-27T01:29:38 < Laurence_b> lolno
2023-06-27T01:42:46 < Steffanx> What else do you get to spend a few million on?
2023-06-27T01:43:27 < karlp> lol, matter "diagnostics" has things like this:             "IPv4Addresses": [    "wKhYHg=="       ],
2023-06-27T01:43:41 < karlp> json, with... ipv4 addresses base64 encoded. thanks guys.
2023-06-27T01:43:54 < zyp> hah
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2023-06-27T01:50:08 < catphish> zyp: i wrote a ring buffer for my USB, it seems to work as it should :)
2023-06-27T01:50:29 < catphish> just pulls bytes from the ring into the endpoint buffer whenever it can
2023-06-27T01:50:45 < zyp> why ring?
2023-06-27T01:51:44 < catphish> well when it comes to practical uses like printf it's useful to be able to just dump data in there at any time
2023-06-27T01:52:06 < catphish> it makes less sense for fixed length things like setup packets
2023-06-27T01:52:20 < catphish> but it works there too
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2023-06-27T02:10:43 < catphish> it's a bit weird, i'm absolutely muddling the concepts of a stream protocol, and discrete transfers, USB is the latter, but for the purposes of a virtual serial port, i have to emulate the former
2023-06-27T02:12:11 < catphish> i actually hate stream protocols and would MUCH prefer discrete packets, but unless i'm going to write my own host side software, emulating a serial port is much more useful 
2023-06-27T02:12:46 < zyp> for ACM, a ringbuffer might make sense, but I think I'd prefer ping-pong style buffering
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2023-06-27T02:13:33 < zyp> so, what are you talking to on the host if not your own software? just a serial terminal?
2023-06-27T02:14:30 < catphish> i think it will work nicely for ACM, and yes, at least initially, the use cases will be 1) printf for general debugging 2) basic serial terminal based config
2023-06-27T02:14:59 < catphish> might be nice to move to libusb based host hostware asap though
2023-06-27T02:15:45 < catphish> i'm making something for a customer who is accustomed to configuring things though a serial terminal, though i have no doubt they's prefer a gui
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2023-06-27T02:24:36 < catphish> karlp: what kind of psychopath would base64 encode an integer?
2023-06-27T02:25:44 < catphish> i guess this is a case of "we have the IP as a string and we base64 encode all strings just in case"
2023-06-27T02:26:03 < zyp> it's not a string, it's a byte buffer
2023-06-27T02:26:38 < catphish> oh god
2023-06-27T02:26:51 < catphish> though i guess that makes sense too
2023-06-27T02:27:38 < catphish> so just 4 raw bytes of the int32 base64 encoded
2023-06-27T02:28:16 < zyp> I don't think it's too unreasonable as a general serialization that's not intended to be human readable
2023-06-27T02:28:29 < zyp> base64 is probably the sanest way to encode byte buffers in json
2023-06-27T02:28:45 < catphish> it would make more sense if json didn't have a perfectky good array structure
2023-06-27T02:29:03 < catphish> why not just [10,0,0,1]
2023-06-27T02:29:22 < zyp> you suggest doing that for any kind of byte buffer?
2023-06-27T02:29:55 < catphish> i'm really not sure
2023-06-27T02:30:45 < catphish> base64 does seem a standard approach though
2023-06-27T02:30:47 < zyp> base64 encodes six bits per character, your way encodes 2-4 bits per character
2023-06-27T02:31:09 < zyp> closer to 2 on average
2023-06-27T02:31:18 < zyp> depending on data distribution
2023-06-27T02:31:38 < zyp> so, nah
2023-06-27T02:31:49 < catphish> it's more likely to come down to how easy it is to encode and decode
2023-06-27T02:31:54 < zyp> in general, I'd take hex strings over integer arrays
2023-06-27T02:32:08 < catphish> hex string works for me :)
2023-06-27T02:32:26 < zyp> yeah, but that's just base16, why not base64 then?
2023-06-27T02:33:17 < catphish> if it has no interest in being human readable, then whatever's easiest to code the encoder / decoder :)
2023-06-27T02:36:48 < catphish> one problem with my ring buffer, it has no way to send an empty packet
2023-06-27T02:37:12 < karlp> 23:28:16          zyp | I don't think it's too unreasonable as a general serialization that's not intended to be human readable
2023-06-27T02:37:15 < catphish> the downside of muddling up transfers with a continuous stream
2023-06-27T02:37:29 < catphish> ^ zyp is probably right
2023-06-27T02:37:30 < karlp> that's it, it's very much not very human readable, it's intended to be machine parsed.
2023-06-27T02:37:42 < karlp> it's still lol when you want to use it,
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2023-06-27T02:37:49 < karlp> because, _there are no tools provided_ 
2023-06-27T02:37:55 < karlp> I mean, there must be somewhere, 
2023-06-27T02:37:57 < karlp> but... 
2023-06-27T02:38:05 < karlp> yay, enterprise!
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2023-06-27T02:38:12 < karlp> matter is _great_
2023-06-27T02:41:15 < catphish> perhaps my implementation would be better as a ring of *packets* instead of a ring of bytes
2023-06-27T02:41:55 < catphish> something that needs to write 128 bytes can just put 2 x 64 byte packets in the ring, and an emty one if needed
2023-06-27T02:42:38 < catphish> which i guess is a ping pong buffer, just bigger
2023-06-27T02:42:47 < catphish> ring pong?
2023-06-27T02:43:25 < catphish> that would work for ACM but equally well for non-stream protcols
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2023-06-27T04:07:16 < catphish> ring-pong works well, thanks!
2023-06-27T04:11:46 < ColdKeyboard> So I found out STM does not offer pre-programming ICs... Sometimes I miss Microchip Direct
2023-06-27T04:12:36 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a suggestion where to look for 4k pcs of STM32G050K8T6 without looking at 12wk lead time? :)
2023-06-27T04:12:40 < zyp> what sort of manufacturing logistics do you have where that'd be convenient?
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2023-06-27T04:18:50 < ColdKeyboard> It's mainly due to "licensing". OEM buys pre-programmed ICs from me and then they just solder them onto the board.
2023-06-27T04:19:24 < ColdKeyboard> So it's more of "convenient" because they buy the IC from me instead of being able to pump as many of them as the like without me being able to do anything about it. :)
2023-06-27T04:19:56 < zyp> oh, right
2023-06-27T04:20:05 < zyp> that's… uncommon :)
2023-06-27T04:20:38 < ColdKeyboard> BTW I'm strecthing the definition of OEM and licensing a lot... It's a small mom&pop shop buying couple of hundreds of my ICs to try something out. Paying a yearly fee would basically kill the deal :)
2023-06-27T04:21:00 < ColdKeyboard> ST does not have (free) tools for some kind of remote "secure" firmware loading?
2023-06-27T04:21:12 < zyp> they do
2023-06-27T04:22:04 < zyp> I've never really used it, outside of loading CPU2 blobs on stm32wb, but I believe it's possible to use the framework for your own stuff too
2023-06-27T04:23:08 < ColdKeyboard> They do? Do you have a link or something I can google for?
2023-06-27T04:23:20 < zyp> but it won't really simplify anything for you, since you still need to do a step to provision the chips with your decryption keys
2023-06-27T04:23:43 < zyp> this probably: https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/x-cube-sbsfu.html
2023-06-27T04:23:45 < ColdKeyboard> Basically something that would allow me to have them to program the chips without having to share the firmware
2023-06-27T04:24:08 < zyp> yeah, but somebody also must program the keys
2023-06-27T04:24:25 < zyp> and giving them the keys to program is as bad as giving them the decrypted firmware :)
2023-06-27T04:25:04 < ColdKeyboard> Oh the secure FW update... I did this in the past but I don't have space for it now :\
2023-06-27T04:25:47 < ColdKeyboard> And true, if they have the keys they might as well have the fw
2023-06-27T04:26:24 < ColdKeyboard> I'm just looking at something that would not make it worth while. If they are willing to spend ~50-100k on reverse engineering, the would already have more than enough money to buy the entire solution instead of "licensing" :)
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2023-06-27T09:19:20 < jpa-> sometimes RP2040 is just so weird, at least with pyocd
2023-06-27T09:19:39 < jpa-> if i load flash twice without running in between, it just totally locks up and needs a power cycle
2023-06-27T09:48:04 < ventYl> while flashing is done via routine ran on CPU, it is possible that pyocd fails to clean something up
2023-06-27T09:48:52 < ventYl> I don't remember if that routine is inside bootrom, or it is injected somewhere into RAM
2023-06-27T09:51:53 < jpa-> it doesn't help doing "mon reset halt" before or after though, so it is something outside of what vecreset can affect
2023-06-27T09:52:18 < jpa-> i think it may be leaving the external flash chip in some weird state that the RP2040 boot code then fixes
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2023-06-27T12:08:42 < jadew> man... they figured out how to make horror movies since the early 70's: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067119/mediaviewer/rm1437575937
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2023-06-27T12:32:37 < drzacek> hello there. Encountered this when trying to open old project from trustudio in cubeide https://pic.infini.fr/ClSB8OI3/iYjNOZym.png
2023-06-27T12:37:24 < drzacek> not sure why it cries about here. I opened the .ioc file in text editor (I got the message when trying to open .ioc file, not when opening the project, sorry), removed the line regarding target platform, now it opens. I hope I didn't broke anything. seems to be looking well 
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2023-06-27T15:49:58 < josuah> jpa-: Raspberry Pi has few experience with making microcontrollers, maybe other brands having everything rock-solid down to the small details had more time to encounter every kind of bug and fix them?
2023-06-27T15:51:09 < josuah> drzacek: if you have the project under git, you can still come back to the previous version right?
2023-06-27T15:51:16 < josuah> that is my guess at least...
2023-06-27T15:51:37 < josuah> automatically generated content (including code in the case of Cube MX) does not play always so nice with git though
2023-06-27T15:51:44 < josuah> makes large commits at every regeneration...
2023-06-27T15:53:22 < josuah> when in need to deal with Cube, I try to do like https://github.com/micropython/stm32lib
2023-06-27T15:53:51 < josuah> grab the code, and consider it as a plain C project with Makefiles
2023-06-27T15:58:06 < jpa-> josuah: lol, what brand is rock solid? STM32 certainly isn't
2023-06-27T15:59:16 < jpa-> my guess would be that very few people are using pyocd + orbtrace + rp2040.. but yeah, eventually the bugs will probably get sorted out
2023-06-27T15:59:50 < drzacek> josuah, yeah I have it in git and some manual zip archives. but the problem is it's pretty ancient project, made with different tools, target, firmware version etc
2023-06-27T16:00:07 < drzacek> but sofar no problems with git commits. 
2023-06-27T16:01:19 < josuah> jpa-: clay solid? :) good point
2023-06-27T16:01:51 < jpa-> rock-solid as STM32F1 I2C in fault state ;)
2023-06-27T16:02:08 < jpa-> sure aint any risk of that suddenly changing state
2023-06-27T16:02:50 < josuah> drzacek: this teaches me: toolchain must be takein into account in maintainability
2023-06-27T16:03:25 < drzacek> yeah that problem is solved
2023-06-27T16:03:39 < drzacek> current problem is - hal package changed so much it broke some functionality
2023-06-27T16:03:42 < josuah> although, I got Cube IDE config file messy, edited them by hand plenty, removing whole chunks, and had working firmware at the end, as long as the compile commands were fine in the end.
2023-06-27T16:03:57 < josuah> drzacek: oh that must have been why some examples do not work anymore!
2023-06-27T16:04:18 < drzacek> not my problem though
2023-06-27T16:04:33 < drzacek> I am in the process of giving up my active projects since I am quitting in few weeks
2023-06-27T16:04:48 < josuah> drzacek: would going as bold as regenerating a new project and importing the new sources here help?
2023-06-27T16:04:52 < drzacek> told them "just stick to the truestudio and old firmware"
2023-06-27T16:05:28 < drzacek> josuah, nah it's more about rewriting functions for CAN tx/rx in our code so they use the new structs/functions, cause it seems there was a slight revolution
2023-06-27T16:06:11 < ventYl> drzacek: uh oh
2023-06-27T16:06:19 < ventYl> that's probably one very bad advice
2023-06-27T16:06:57 < drzacek> well they can take the newest firmware package and refactor the code so it works. but they are SO understaffed I doubt they'll do it
2023-06-27T16:07:10 < drzacek> me going to new company makes it even worse
2023-06-27T16:07:38 < drzacek> it's was one of the side projects that didn't get much attention in last few years, so *shrugs*
2023-06-27T16:07:43 < drzacek> -'s
2023-06-27T16:08:07 < ventYl> yeah, it's better to wait until it will become absolutely unavoidable and this fact will be discovered only way too late. so they will be equally understaffed and without luxury of doing it without pressure
2023-06-27T16:09:19 < jpa-> doing it early means you just have to do it again when cube updates next time
2023-06-27T16:12:04 < drzacek> ventYl, not my call. I have less than 20 days left, and lift of tasks to finish. this one is pretty down on the priority list
2023-06-27T16:12:46 < drzacek> jpa-, I dont think functionality-breaking changes happen very often
2023-06-27T16:16:50 < ventYl> drzacek: I should learn this attitude. Having last two months in last company I've been working at I squeezed six months of work into one and half and even managed to fix showstopper which would prevent software release planned some week after my departure
2023-06-27T16:17:30 < drzacek> dont get me wrong, I'm not happy with leaving unfinished work, but to deal with ALL the problems of the company I'll have to work 24/7 for next few months
2023-06-27T16:17:49 < ventYl> that wasn't meant to be a criticism
2023-06-27T16:17:50 < drzacek> and tbh, all those problems are the reason why I quit
2023-06-27T16:18:28 < drzacek> I dont want you to think about me as of poor character.
2023-06-27T16:18:41 < ventYl> I don't think that
2023-06-27T16:19:09 < ventYl> it was more like that I am over-concerned and internally take responsibility for stuff I am not responsible in reality
2023-06-27T16:23:21 < ventYl> on the other hand I *did* quit also because of all the problems we had
2023-06-27T16:23:28 < ventYl> well, in fact it was the major reason
2023-06-27T16:25:59 < drzacek> well the problem is too many different tasks for not enough people. if you have software dev that does c++/qt on linux, should also manage the linux system for your product (sounds more complex than it is, we distribute debian with some minor changes along with our software), but also do microcontrollers, but also hotline support, repairs of the hardware...
2023-06-27T16:26:07 < drzacek> I kinda lose track what I do
2023-06-27T16:26:35 < ventYl> too often the root cause is the lack of automation
2023-06-27T16:26:48 < drzacek> during interview I asked if I'll have to do customer support too, and or repairs or something
2023-06-27T16:26:48 < ventYl> too much work is manual and or takes much longer than it should
2023-06-27T16:26:58 < drzacek> and they said "silly, that's job for 3 different teams"
2023-06-27T16:27:15 < drzacek> well I placed request for gitlab server in 2018
2023-06-27T16:27:35 < drzacek> to tidy up some stuff and automate part of the job
2023-06-27T16:28:02 < ventYl> well my contract contained clause that if I contact customer directly, or respond to any direct contact from customer I get immediately fired. I ended up being the main team member talking to the customer.
2023-06-27T16:28:15 < drzacek> neat
2023-06-27T16:28:31 < ventYl> as our Fachteamleider was only competent as mail forwarding service
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2023-06-27T16:45:44 < josuah> > all those problems are the reason why I quit
2023-06-27T16:46:14 < josuah> leaving unfinished work can appear rude, but it is to be balanced with the rest of the career spent saying "hey, you'd better want to look at this, can I fix it now? no? ok when? later? ok..."
2023-06-27T16:46:36 < josuah> and at the last minute, boss barging in saying "oh, by the way, we need this done before you leave"
2023-06-27T16:47:15 < josuah> no idea how any of that happened, but I'm very glad your sanity gets preserved :)
2023-06-27T16:50:11  * drzacek_ hopes new work wont be worse
2023-06-27T16:50:19 < ventYl> :)
2023-06-27T16:50:25 < ventYl> high hopes
2023-06-27T16:53:41 < ventYl> josuah: IMO the employer / employee contract is based on time. employee provides time, employer provides tasks. employee solves tasks. there is usually an agreement on notice period with mutual understanding that whatever falls after this period is not a responsibility of whoever just left anymore
2023-06-27T16:55:44 < josuah> ventYl: otherwise, it is a manager position?
2023-06-27T16:55:59 < ventYl> even if it is a managerial position
2023-06-27T16:56:16 < josuah> hmm, there is a special word in French that translates to this
2023-06-27T16:56:26 < josuah> where you are paid for a task, must ensure it gets done, usually higher monthly wage, typically more work hours too
2023-06-27T16:56:45 < josuah> but get paid equally regardless of how much work is done
2023-06-27T16:57:07 < ventYl> well, you have responsibility to *run* the thing, not the *outcome*
2023-06-27T16:57:09 < josuah> and can be for management or anything else, although often ends-up being for managers
2023-06-27T16:57:27 < josuah> ah, executive
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2023-06-27T16:57:41 < ventYl> whenever I would be responsible for the outcome, I would have share on profit
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2023-06-27T16:58:34 < drzacek_> meh, I'm just a dumb monkey, I just press the button mr boss tell me to press
2023-06-27T17:00:26 < ventYl> josuah: it pretty much fits. executives usually do have share on profit as a compensation for higher effort
2023-06-27T17:00:57 < ventYl> but even standard lower management is still composef of more-less standard employees who are responsible for what they run as long as they run it
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2023-06-27T17:15:50 < josuah> ventYl: thank you, good to be aware of it
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2023-06-27T17:24:29 < karlp> hrm, job description that has "experince with stm32 cube desirable"  do you think I'll survive?
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2023-06-27T17:28:17 < qyx> does negative experience count?
2023-06-27T17:30:46 < Sadale> You should refer that job to me and earn the referral fee :3
2023-06-27T17:30:47 < englishman> sounds like job security
2023-06-27T17:31:20 < karlp> yeah, I'm not actually concnered about the cube, more whether they've filled it already, (doubtful) and whether they have money to actually pay me...
2023-06-27T17:31:56 < Sadale> How does asking for experience with cube has anything to do with their ability to pay you tho?
2023-06-27T17:32:20 < Sadale> Anyway it's kind of funny how they asks for experience in an IDE considered that pretty much any IDE would do the same thing.
2023-06-27T17:32:47 < karlp> unrelated, but some startups (here especialyl) like to pay lower and make it up with bonuses later, and some of them even are just regularly "late" with payroll.
2023-06-27T17:32:49 < Sadale> oh never mind. you said you were not concered about the cube
2023-06-27T17:33:27 < Sadale> I thought that you had a job tho. Do you need another job that pays you better?
2023-06-27T17:33:45 < Sadale> or, did the company that you work for went bankrupt?
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2023-06-27T17:37:05 < josuah> karlp: is there a chance they'd be open to port it over to something else?
2023-06-27T17:38:31 < karlp> haven't even got an interview yet, this is just from the "PM for more details post" :)
2023-06-27T17:39:29 < josuah> Sadale: I have sometimes seen people wanting their team to use tools they'd be able to use themself, sometimes with large cost on the project quality
2023-06-27T17:39:48 < josuah> "I want it to be done in Arduino IDE, so that I can edit code myself if you are on holidays"
2023-06-27T17:40:00 < ventYl> Sadale: it's not uncommon to think that IDE does have some secret sauce under the hood which is not replicable
2023-06-27T17:40:01 < josuah> I can understand the concern, but does not sound too nice in practice
2023-06-27T17:40:46 < Sadale> lol Arduino IDE huh? Please don't. Please don't. Just anything but Arduino IDE unless it's something very simple
2023-06-27T17:41:07 < ventYl> I was once interviewed for job position in company still using MC68k. At one point interviewer told me that "project lead is really old school. he's still using Norton Commander ncedit to edit sources"
2023-06-27T17:41:19 < josuah> ventYl: like showing an error message instead of being "<jpa-> rock-solid as STM32F1 I2C in fault state ;)
2023-06-27T17:41:26 < josuah> " maybe?
2023-06-27T17:42:31 < Sadale> ventYl, I mean, it isn't your problem as long as you aren't forced to use the same file editor as him.
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2023-06-27T18:18:26 < ventYl> Sadale: well, I've seen companies having some exceptionally weird IDE as a hard requirement. Just because they thought it has some secret sauce and if I don't know it, I won't be able to collaborate.
2023-06-27T18:18:49 < ventYl> as well I've seen companies asking for years of experience with some very specific MCU. Which was also a hard requirement.
2023-06-27T18:29:00 < karlp> my.st.com won't let me change my email address?
2023-06-27T18:29:08 < karlp> but it lets me save "macros" in my profile?!
2023-06-27T19:56:02 < qyx> "oh we are using keil" ok
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2023-06-27T21:58:01 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.cz/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRnphSnUzMmFVQUV1NUMwLmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxsJmZvcm1hdD13ZWJw
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2023-06-27T22:06:12 < specing> Laurence_b: who's on the right?
2023-06-27T22:06:34 < Laurence_b> some twitter edgelord
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2023-06-28T00:05:38 < Laurence_b> interdasting, acrylic structural adhesive is shit at gluing these https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/408/TODX2960A(F)_datasheet_en_20160415-1138386.pdf
2023-06-28T00:05:49 < Laurence_b> cracks straight off, but is unremovable from steel
2023-06-28T00:06:20  * Laurence_b is trying to panel mount fibre transceivers
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2023-06-28T14:39:06 < jbo> moin
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2023-06-28T15:03:07 < Steffanx> gooday
2023-06-28T15:03:13 < Steffanx> hows sliding menuing?
2023-06-28T15:03:21 < jbo> haven't checked yet :s
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2023-06-28T15:05:13 < Steffanx> lol
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2023-06-28T15:49:47 < invzim> got an odd one, migrating from truestudio to cubeide.  SPI is not working correctly?!  After scratching my head, comparing this and that etc, I hooked up trusty old saleae and find an extra clock pulse for single byte transmissions
2023-06-28T15:50:27 < invzim> SPI is too common to have werid bugs like this, anyone got any pointers?
2023-06-28T15:55:32 < jbo> so you changed more than just the IDE?
2023-06-28T15:55:39 < invzim> https://kirurg.org/drop/2023-06-28-spiwrong.png
2023-06-28T15:55:58 < invzim> user code is the same, cube stuff is regenerated
2023-06-28T15:56:55 < zyp> invzim, are you switching cpol/cpha settings? I've seen the SPI peripheral do weird things when you do while it's enabled
2023-06-28T15:58:21 < invzim> not intentionally, it's just super simple stuff driving an oled
2023-06-28T15:59:46 < zyp> show some code
2023-06-28T16:00:27 < invzim> cube init code?
2023-06-28T16:00:34 < zyp> spi writing code
2023-06-28T16:01:01 < zyp> interested in what happens between CE assert and deassert
2023-06-28T16:01:20 < invzim> https://github.com/afiskon/stm32-ssd1306/blob/master/ssd1306/ssd1306.c
2023-06-28T16:01:39 < invzim> ssd1306_WriteCommand
2023-06-28T16:07:03  * josuah wonders why there are not more portable drivers for all these external hardware
2023-06-28T16:08:32 < josuah> as it is just some "i2c_write()" or "spi_write()" function to provide most of the time
2023-06-28T16:08:41 < josuah> maybe drivers simply get copied from project to project
2023-06-28T16:24:25 < invzim> figured it out, or at least fixed it, it was spi mode half duplex master vs transmit only master (works)
2023-06-28T16:28:36 < invzim> just verified that old cube ioc file also was set to half-duplex master so who knows, maybe I relied on a bug that was fixed in this version
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2023-06-28T17:54:00 < jadew> invzim, so it was releasing the clock line?
2023-06-28T17:54:45 < jadew> could have fixed it with a resistor :P
2023-06-28T17:58:44 < jadew> the more components it has, the more you can charge for it
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2023-06-28T20:30:30 < invzim> I actually have no clue what half-duplex master vs send-only master means on the line level, objective is to send-only to an oled
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2023-06-28T20:43:35 < mawk> well half-duplex is getting an answer, after having sent something 
2023-06-28T20:43:50 < mawk> instead of having send and receive take place simultaneously 
2023-06-28T20:44:01 < mawk> and send-only is self-descriptive
2023-06-28T20:44:04 < mawk> only the TX happens
2023-06-28T20:44:14 < ventYl> is that supported on peripheral level anyhow?
2023-06-28T20:44:44 < ventYl> like, first shift out the TX register to MOSI and only then start shifting in the RX register from MISO?
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2023-06-29T08:28:08 < Laurence_b> sheet
2023-06-29T08:28:15 < Laurence_b> sheet
2023-06-29T08:28:29 < Laurence_b> Madonna has an infacted vagoo, who knew
2023-06-29T08:29:14 < Laurence_b> inb4 herpes
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2023-06-29T09:38:23 < PaulFertser> I sometimes wonder if lolrence is so consistently pretending to be a moron or if he really enjoys consuming and producing all that shit. After seeing his talk about rockets I really am puzzled.
2023-06-29T09:39:31 < ventYl> at certain age you realize that some people are simply plain stupid
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2023-06-29T09:39:39 < ventYl> and there is no explanation for it
2023-06-29T09:40:43 < PaulFertser> My point is that Mr. Blaxter isn't stupid.
2023-06-29T09:51:09 < ventYl> how do you assess that?
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2023-06-29T10:42:02 < Steffanx> Some people watch movies, others cycle a lot or read books. I think this is his hobby PaulFertser 
2023-06-29T10:44:18 < ventYl> hobby: being a moron
2023-06-29T10:44:24 < ventYl> interessant
2023-06-29T11:15:59 < qyx> ventYl: laurenceb has quite a long history of a pretty valid science
2023-06-29T11:21:35 < invzim> yay, tinyusb example working with just a tiny hack (linker issue).  ST usb stack will not be missed
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2023-06-29T11:45:42 < mawk> as well as an history of extensive talks about infected vagoos
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2023-06-29T12:41:24 < ventYl> qyx: well, people can be both intelligent and otherwise stupid at the same time. those two properties are kind of orthogonal
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2023-06-29T15:03:53 < invzim> https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_XKB-Connectivity-U262-161N-4BVC11_C319148.html - is this one selective soldering or paste on the leg holes (does that even work?)?
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2023-06-29T15:59:21 < karlp> man, I fucking _hate_ arm gcc for this bullshit: format '%u' expects argument of type 'unsigned int', but argument 6 has type 'uint32_t' {aka 'long unsigned int'
2023-06-29T15:59:39 < karlp> just ... so manyyears of developer time wasted on it.
2023-06-29T16:06:53 < drzacek> surely some flag to threat it as a warning?
2023-06-29T16:13:13 < zyp> PRIu32 to the rescue
2023-06-29T16:13:21 < zyp> this sort of bullshit: https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/types/integer#Format_macro_constants
2023-06-29T16:28:28 < ventYl> interesting bug-o-feature
2023-06-29T16:41:29 < ventYl> const auto something = manager().vector()[0]; will yield memory corruption with msvc if vector() returns by value rather by reference. without any warning
2023-06-29T16:41:44 < ventYl> s/auto/\0 &/
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2023-06-29T17:28:44 < qyx> karlp: =lu
2023-06-29T17:28:48 < qyx> %lu
2023-06-29T17:29:33 < qyx> but yes PRIu32 is more proper and more ugly
2023-06-29T17:30:10 < zyp> it's just shit like #define PRIu32 "lu"
2023-06-29T17:30:34 < zyp> but it ensures you get the right one for the type you've got
2023-06-29T17:30:59 < zyp> and yeah, it's annoying to dick around with that by hand
2023-06-29T17:31:08 < qyx> references      C23 standard (ISO/IEC 9899:2023)?
2023-06-29T17:31:12 < qyx> when did this happen
2023-06-29T17:32:24 < zyp> that's for the _WIDTH constants mentioned further up
2023-06-29T17:33:11 < qyx> yeah but wasn't there draft only
2023-06-29T17:33:14 < qyx> earlier this year
2023-06-29T17:33:58 < karlp> yeah, the problem is that IMO, uint32_t for arm-gcc should be typedeffed as uinsigned int, not as long unsigned int.
2023-06-29T17:34:11 < karlp> they're both the same size, and it would avoid all PRIxxxx shit
2023-06-29T17:36:11 < qyx> - Labels can appear before declarations and at the end of compound statements.[37]
2023-06-29T17:36:17 < qyx> weehee no more case 1: {}
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2023-06-29T22:43:27 < mawk> you don't like labels qyx ?
2023-06-29T22:43:38 < mawk> I like to have __label__ error; at the beggining of every function
2023-06-29T22:43:43 < mawk> and then a label error: at the end
2023-06-29T22:44:08 < mawk> and then I use macros that wraps pieces of code with error checking and goto error in case of error
2023-06-29T22:44:14 < mawk> it's like exception but for poor people
2023-06-29T22:44:31 < mawk> and with the __label__ trick you don't have to have unique names for the label
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2023-06-29T23:17:59 < qyx> mawk: I was referring to the unability to declare a local variable inside a switch case statement
2023-06-29T23:18:08 < qyx> you had to enclose your case x: code in a {}
2023-06-29T23:18:13 < mawk> o
2023-06-29T23:18:15 < mawk> yeah
2023-06-29T23:18:20 < mawk> that was annoying 
2023-06-29T23:18:29 < mawk> but I guess expected due to how labels work
2023-06-29T23:19:01 < mawk> you can use variables declared after the label under the label or something like that
2023-06-29T23:19:59 < mawk> can't*
2023-06-29T23:21:12 < qyx> idk just {} the block
--- Day changed pe kesä 30 2023
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2023-06-30T00:47:08 < karlp> is this c20 shit or someting?
2023-06-30T00:47:22 < karlp> yeah, I always fucking hated having to wrap case blocks in {} 
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2023-06-30T00:48:33 < qyx> c23 karlp 
2023-06-30T00:48:46 < karlp> I have some shit with that in matter crap, wher ethey use macros in mixed case, that look like functions, but are actually lengthy blobs of check&goto, so you're forced into this legacy "alllllll variables at the very top allllllll the time" bullshit
2023-06-30T00:52:51 < ventYl> MISRA C89 style
2023-06-30T00:53:20 < ventYl> thou shall not recurse
2023-06-30T00:56:02 < karlp> Men In Suits Ruling Arbitrarily
2023-06-30T00:56:48 < qyx> lol
2023-06-30T00:58:39 < zyp> I thought it was an abbreviation of miserable
2023-06-30T00:59:33 < ventYl> it an acronym for You Rather Will Kill Yourself. You just have to change some letters
2023-06-30T01:01:01 < ventYl> hm, if I command gdb to `quit 0` I still get exit code 1
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2023-06-30T01:20:02  * ventYl stupid
2023-06-30T01:23:31 < karlp> works for me here?
2023-06-30T01:23:42 < karlp> what the fuck are you scripting tha tthat's important?!
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2023-06-30T01:25:35 < ventYl> tests
2023-06-30T01:27:30 < ventYl> i somehow missed that one of breakpoints wasn't pointing to existing function which made it fail prematurely
2023-06-30T01:30:13 < zyp> I also ran tests in gdb today
2023-06-30T01:31:22 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/wJPQZ
2023-06-30T01:33:07 < ventYl> mines more primitive
2023-06-30T01:33:19 < ventYl> I install two breakpoints at two different functions
2023-06-30T01:33:26 < ventYl> one means success another means failure
2023-06-30T01:33:51 < zyp> mine doesn't get to the breakpoint if it fails
2023-06-30T01:34:49 < zyp> took me a bit under an hour to run 200 boards through that, had one failure: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813547772337979442/1124083965645574276/IMG_20230629_230743.jpg
2023-06-30T01:36:05 < zyp> reason it failed is because boot0 is one of those floating pins, so it ended up in ROM bootloader instead of running my code at all
2023-06-30T01:37:09 < ventYl> what I am doing is actually doing the right thing the wrong way
2023-06-30T01:37:34 < ventYl> I am executing software tests on target hardware which is something I strongly oppose against on dicked-in
2023-06-30T01:39:38 < zyp> also, my test is also really primitive, this is pretty much just a f7 breakout board with a 20-pin debug&trace connector as a demo board for orbtrace, so there's not a lot to test on it
2023-06-30T01:40:01 < zyp> I'm testing that debug&trace works, that both HSE and LSE starts and that all LEDs work
2023-06-30T01:40:30 < ventYl> I am testing operating system kernel. That's why I basically have to test it on target HW
2023-06-30T01:41:09 < zyp> yesterday I tested orbtrace boards, they've got a much more comprehensive testsuite
2023-06-30T01:42:37 < zyp> and this time around I built a better testjig than I had for the first batch: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XZjdk.mp4
2023-06-30T01:44:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/imd1f.jpg <- old testjig required me to manually plug in 10- and 20-pin cables, as well as put the yellow piece on top before clamping it down
2023-06-30T01:47:30 < zyp> if you're testing on different targets, maybe you want one of these things: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Uaku7.jpg :)
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2023-06-30T01:51:39 < ventYl> I basically need only three targets, maybe even just two
2023-06-30T01:51:49 < ventYl> that shit turned out to be highly portable with minimal effort
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2023-06-30T03:00:54 < karlp> how does your breakpoint work to test that the leds work?
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2023-06-30T09:39:59 < zyp> karlp, I look at the LEDs when it hits the breakpoint
2023-06-30T09:40:27 < zyp> but yeah, I could have done it more clever
2023-06-30T09:43:49 < zyp> on this board it's not possible, but if the LEDs were hooked to ADC capable pins, the trick is to enable the pullups on the pins and then using the ADC to measure the voltage that appears from the voltage divider that forms between the pullup and the external series resistor
2023-06-30T10:05:29 < qyx> I would simply pullup/down the pin and see if it toggles
2023-06-30T10:05:52 < qyx> with a series LED + resistor on it it would most probably not enough to trigger the schmidt
2023-06-30T10:06:12 < qyx> but hard to say for higher Vf LEDs
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2023-06-30T10:06:45 < qyx> for white I guess it will happily reach H with a pullup
2023-06-30T10:07:05 < qyx> for 1V2 classics not
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2023-06-30T12:28:14 < BrainDamage> you could have a strip of phototransistors that detect the light
2023-06-30T12:29:04 < qyx> we were using that feasa thing for that
2023-06-30T12:29:08 < qyx> more expensive than a cocaine
2023-06-30T12:29:59 < qyx> basically a bunch of RGB/W/IR/UV photodiodes with 1mm POF fibers
2023-06-30T12:31:13 < qyx> actually doable with a couple of I2C ALS sensors + stm32 + usb on a milled alu plate with SMA or other FO connectors
2023-06-30T12:31:30 < qyx> feasa had some basic china-like screw connectors for direct POF insertion
2023-06-30T12:32:28 < zyp> for orbtrace I've thought about simply mounting a camera to the testjig
2023-06-30T12:33:04 < qyx> cameras were forbidden for pro industrial customers
2023-06-30T12:33:11 < qyx> they demanded led analysers
2023-06-30T12:33:31 < zyp> :)
2023-06-30T12:33:59 < qyx> even when there were LEDs around a LCD and we were already cpturing them by a camera
2023-06-30T12:34:08 < qyx> fukthem
2023-06-30T12:35:42 < zyp> currently I've got a manual testcase for the orbtrace LEDs that doubles as a test of the onboard button: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace_testsuite/blob/main/bin/test-leds-button.py
2023-06-30T12:37:07 < qyx> re orbtrace, I guess we could make a company for niche products named "Unusual Instruments"
2023-06-30T12:37:12 < qyx> it would be cool
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2023-06-30T13:07:20 < ventYl> trashcan + orbtrace?
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2023-06-30T13:16:35 < qyx> and my battery simulator too
2023-06-30T13:17:24 < Steffanx> Qyx has a battery simulator? 
2023-06-30T13:17:28 < Steffanx> Want.
2023-06-30T13:17:30 < qyx> not yet
2023-06-30T13:17:44 < Steffanx> 😅
2023-06-30T13:18:16 < qyx> I want to do one, single cell 0-5 V, sink/source, settable parameters including IR, about 50 W max sink/source
2023-06-30T13:18:53 < Steffanx> And not costing +3k euro.
2023-06-30T13:20:20 < qyx> of course
2023-06-30T13:20:46 < qyx> I'll ask jadew to help me
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2023-06-30T15:07:58 < karlp> measuring power consumption can work too, just curious what method speople were using :)
2023-06-30T15:08:23 < karlp> my current/last factory flashing thing had a final step of the ram test image blinking all the leds, and the operators last task was "are all the leds blinking" y/n
2023-06-30T15:09:48 < zyp> my employer does the power consumption trick
2023-06-30T15:10:50 < zyp> either by putting the LEDs on ADC channels if there's only a few, or by putting a common series resistor on the low side with a FET to bypass it during regular use
2023-06-30T15:11:31 < zyp> in the latter case, just turn off FET, measure across the common series resistor and turn them on one by one
2023-06-30T15:11:32 < qyx> I would just measure the whole thing's consumption
2023-06-30T15:12:03 < qyx> blink LEDs and detect if the consumption changes by about the right amount
2023-06-30T15:14:10 < zyp> that's gonna get masked by capacitance unless you do it very slow, and if you're running the production test suite over SWD, it's probably gonna get lost in the noise
2023-06-30T15:15:04 < jpa-> with normal GPIO, you could maybe measure LED capacitance with timing, but that's probably a bit too hacky
2023-06-30T15:15:22 < jpa-> zyp: that just means your LEDs are not powerful enough!
2023-06-30T15:15:32 < qyx> hm yeah jpa- 
2023-06-30T15:15:49 < jpa-> on the current board i'm doing, turning on the status LED doubles the power consumption :)
2023-06-30T15:17:55 < zyp> might be
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2023-06-30T19:45:49 < qyx> zyp: fuk pcie connectors
2023-06-30T19:46:06 < qyx> debugging intermittent failures half a day
2023-06-30T19:52:03 < zyp> haha
2023-06-30T19:53:10 < qyx> I need deterministic contact area and preferably 2/4 contact areas per pin
2023-06-30T19:53:48 < qyx> but all the backplane shit is 4TE wide
2023-06-30T20:03:50 < qyx> considering DIN 41612 C/2
2023-06-30T20:05:09 < jpa-> use two pins per signal :)
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2023-06-30T21:42:02 < qyx> why are hard metric connectors 15.40 mm wide
2023-06-30T21:42:06 < qyx> instead of 15.24 mm
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2023-06-30T23:32:21 < nomorekaki> early hello
2023-06-30T23:33:39 < qyx> early no more
--- Log closed la heinä 01 00:00:45 2023