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2023-09-01T02:55:49 < qyx> https://rfc.zeromq.org/spec/35/
2023-09-01T02:56:00 < qyx> I CAN HAZ
2023-09-01T03:06:36 < josuah> qyx: next is RabbitMQ encapsulated into ZeromMQ? :)
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2023-09-01T03:15:00 < qyx> no, the next is a plain datagram unix domain socket
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2023-09-01T08:18:01 < jpa-> qyx: one person on another one is using datagram unix sockets, and getting surprised that a hanging receiver application can block the sending socket - having a socket at server end for each client is probably a good idea
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2023-09-01T12:25:58 < zyp> jpa-, why is that surprising? real world buffers necessarily has to have finite sizes, and when they're full you either have to block or drop
2023-09-01T12:28:08 < zyp> and unless you're using a transport that's explicitly stated not to have flow control, I'd expect the former
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2023-09-01T12:32:38 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, but with unix datagram sockets you can send to multiple clients from a single server socket, but if one of them blocks it blocks them all
2023-09-01T12:33:31 < jpa-> he claims it happens even with O_NONBLOCK, but i haven't confirmed this myself
2023-09-01T12:35:12 < zyp> in a broadcast fashion?
2023-09-01T12:36:49 < zyp> if you're broadcasting, you've still got the same problem, using individual sockets per client just means you're moving the decision to block or drop into your application logic
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2023-09-01T12:38:19 < zyp> we've talked about similar issues in orbuculum, since it has the ability to distribute the trace stream to multiple clients
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2023-09-01T12:41:47 < zyp> IIRC currently we drop per client, since a slow client unable to keep up shouldn't cause data loss for other clients, which is what would happen if we just blocked the incoming stream until all clients got it
2023-09-01T12:42:26 < zyp> but that creates issues when replaying a captured trace file
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2023-09-01T12:52:59 < karlp> .woulnd't O_NONBLOCK just mean that it returns imeediately with a "couldn't write" message, and they're just looping infinitely, trying to write?
2023-09-01T12:53:05 < karlp> just like if the call it self had blocked?
2023-09-01T12:53:18 < karlp> O_NONBLOCK doesn't mean "plz drop  my pakkets"
2023-09-01T12:53:45 < karlp> also, btrfs is fuckign weird: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Yy126
2023-09-01T12:55:47 < jpa-> yeah, i think what you are saying is correct
2023-09-01T12:56:24 < jpa-> indeed wanting guaranteed delivery, finite buffering and tolerance of blocked client is impossible combination
2023-09-01T13:02:09 < zyp> karlp, looks normal: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/EGG8L
2023-09-01T13:08:15 < karlp> I'm ok with the difference, but it's still fucking rouggh that the machine is basically dead in the water, and it still says 1.8G free.
2023-09-01T13:08:26 < zyp> karlp, so if I'm understanding your situation right, I guess podman is trying to create new btrfs filesystems for the image layers, and can't because all the available area is already allocated for /
2023-09-01T13:08:28 < karlp> it was down to 100MB free, and I went and deleted a bunch of stuff, but... it hasn't cought up.
2023-09-01T13:09:04 < karlp> I have no idea how podman is doing a pull,  I jut know that it's no longer capable of pulling down an image, and I "should" have space free.
2023-09-01T13:09:32 < zyp> sort of like filling your drive with partitions and then trying to create a new partition, that can't fit
2023-09-01T13:10:18 < karlp> I would have assumed that podman/docker layers were just "files" actually.
2023-09-01T13:10:21 < mawk> btrfs subvolume shouldn't get any reserved space
2023-09-01T13:10:26 < mawk> unless you setup quotas 
2023-09-01T13:10:35 < zyp> it sounds like you need to run a rebalance
2023-09-01T13:10:40 < mawk> so deleting stuff should make it possible to create new subvolumes
2023-09-01T13:10:41 < karlp> I'm running rebalce yes :)
2023-09-01T13:10:54 < karlp> apparently this will take a while :|
2023-09-01T13:12:30 < zyp> I'm not familiar with podman and how that differs from docker, but docker at least supports multiple storage backends with different ways of doing overlays
2023-09-01T13:12:57 < zyp> I'm running the zfs one on my home server, which treats each image layer as a zfs filesystem snapshot
2023-09-01T13:13:07 < zyp> (AIUI)
2023-09-01T13:14:03 < zyp> the point is that since one layer are just changes to some files laid on top of the layer below, it can be modelled/stored as the incremental changes between two filesystem snapshots
2023-09-01T13:14:23 < karlp> ERROR: error during balancing '/': No space left on device
2023-09-01T13:14:25 < karlp> whee.
2023-09-01T13:15:05 < karlp> but I'm now up to 1G unallocated, so Might actually be able to get home assistant running again.
2023-09-01T13:19:46 < jpa-> docker has some kind of habit of eating up a lot of space on btrfs sometimes
2023-09-01T13:40:07 < BrainDamage> I bet it keeps snapshots of old versions
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2023-09-01T13:43:35 < mawk> yeah
2023-09-01T13:43:47 < mawk> you need to tell it to prune image storage
2023-09-01T13:43:52 < mawk> it even keeps tagless images
2023-09-01T13:44:04 < mawk> ones that are only identified by a hash and orphaned
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2023-09-01T15:33:34 < karlp> mawk: what song is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl74Je6ID9A&t=2702s
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2023-09-01T18:23:31 < karlp> ahh, siouxie
2023-09-01T18:25:05 < karlp> thank you whosampled
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2023-09-01T21:12:56 < nomorekaki> karlp: good mosics
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2023-09-01T23:17:24 < karlp> yes, but what is the track?
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2023-09-01T23:38:56 < nomorekaki> is it like ATB - 9PM reversed?
2023-09-01T23:40:24 < karlp> yeah, someoen else suggested it was this: https://youtu.be/KnBdf559ofQ
2023-09-01T23:40:28 < karlp> either or...
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2023-09-02T14:50:37 < Laurence_b> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FF47_pRgXAAA1oqE.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2023-09-02T15:44:48 < mrcoffee> Hello
2023-09-02T15:44:53 < mrcoffee> Im using stm32duino..
2023-09-02T15:45:09 < mrcoffee> Porting something from ESP32 to STM32
2023-09-02T15:45:22 < mrcoffee> that uses #include FS.h
2023-09-02T15:45:28 < mrcoffee> Have commented out that..
2023-09-02T15:45:51 < mrcoffee> And now have trouble with that line: myFile.write(myBuffer, sdWriteSize);
2023-09-02T15:46:05 < mrcoffee> How can I translate that to STM32 code?
2023-09-02T15:46:26 < mrcoffee> myfile.println(myBuffer, sdWriteSize);  doesnt work.
2023-09-02T15:50:59 < jpa-> you need a filesystem library
2023-09-02T15:51:06 < jpa-> sdfat or something
2023-09-02T15:58:50 < mrcoffee> Maybe that line is not the issue not sure..
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2023-09-02T15:59:07 < mrcoffee> Whats happening is that the file is being created on the sd card but no data being written to it..
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2023-09-02T16:28:19 < mrcoffee> Have adapted a previous code that doesnt use #include FS.h so that or the file.write() are not the issue..
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2023-09-03T05:33:08 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- (and anyone else interested), would this be the proper way to chainload the main app from the bootloader -> https://privatebin.net/?cd72865e5c88bf46#6kdeKNhpp6DUyoyfzKq4xqqc5fjLpxYmNReZfbpaUWB8
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2023-09-03T07:41:32 < mawk> PROBLEM #1: there are 100 lamps, all off, numbered from 1 to 100. the lamps multiple of 1 are toggled, then the lamps multiple of 2, then 3, and so on, until the lamps multiple of 100. which lamps are on at the end?
2023-09-03T07:42:08 < mawk> PROBLEM #2: there are 100 lamps, all off, numbered from 1 to 100. the lamps multiple of 1 are toggled 1 time, then the lamps multiple of 2 are toggled 2 times, then lamps multiple of 3 are toggled 3 times, and so on, until the lamps multiple of 100 are toggled 100 times. which lamps are on at the end?
2023-09-03T08:29:29 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: probably
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2023-09-03T11:51:37 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, did you lift it directly from https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp#n22 ? :)
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2023-09-03T11:53:53 < zyp> if you've got thumb2 you don't need to copy sp to an intermediate register first: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp#n19
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2023-09-03T12:16:57 < catphish> i'm trying to find an STM32 with ethernet and AES crytpo to run SSH, plus a reasonable amount of flash) this is proving to be a pain in the ass
2023-09-03T12:18:48 < catphish> stm32h735 seems like the right chip, alas no LCSC stock, will keep looking
2023-09-03T12:19:30 < catphish> and the cubemx parametric search seems broken asking for AES, it doesn't find any chips
2023-09-03T12:23:35 < jpa-> do you really need hardware AES?
2023-09-03T12:23:42 < catphish> jpa-: i don't know
2023-09-03T12:24:07 < catphish> i guess at a faster clock speed i can run all of SSH in software
2023-09-03T12:25:13 < jpa-> how much SSH bandwidth do you need?
2023-09-03T12:25:17 < catphish> actually i have a STM32F407 board somewhere, so perhaps i should try on that first, as a worst case and see how slow it is
2023-09-03T12:26:23 < jpa-> https://oryx-embedded.com/benchmark/st/crypto-stm32f4.html
2023-09-03T12:26:24 < catphish> jpa-: not a huge amount, i want to make a multi port SSH to UART bridge, so in theory, worst case scenario, 115200 x full duplex x 8 ports, but in any realistic use case, much less than that
2023-09-03T12:26:49 < catphish> wow, thanks, i was looking for that info and never found it
2023-09-03T12:27:33 < BrainDamage> why not something like a shitberry pi?
2023-09-03T12:28:11 < catphish> it doesn't have 4 RS232 ports
2023-09-03T12:28:16 < catphish> *8
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2023-09-03T12:29:09 < catphish> and nobody's going to take a device seriously if it's just an off the shelf SBC with USB dongles hanging off it
2023-09-03T12:29:09 < jpa-> it has USB though
2023-09-03T12:29:12 < jpa-> :)
2023-09-03T12:29:20 < jpa-> that's true
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2023-09-03T12:29:44 < jpa-> and theoretically with STM32 you can get sub-millisecond latency from ethernet to RS232, which would be useful for some usecases
2023-09-03T12:30:35 < catphish> jpa-: that table suggests that for my application, software crypto *will* just about cut it, but hardware would be much better, it's also about the speed of the asymmetric crypto to do the initial connection negotiation
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2023-09-03T12:32:59 < catphish> jpa-: anyway, this page makes choosing a chip much easier https://oryx-embedded.com/benchmark/st/
2023-09-03T12:34:39 < jpa-> yeah
2023-09-03T12:36:32 < catphish> they have benchmarks for the H5, i wonder how they managed to find one :D
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2023-09-03T12:39:32 < jpa-> probably ST partner
2023-09-03T12:41:27 < catphish> yeah they are
2023-09-03T12:46:55 < catphish> STM32F756 looks like a winner
2023-09-03T12:51:53 < catphish> supply is still a concern with these larger STM32 chips though
2023-09-03T13:07:00 < qyx> catphish: I guess with chacha20+poly1305 ssh cipher suite, sw impl may be pretty fast
2023-09-03T13:07:48 < qyx> what will be more problematic is the key exchange
2023-09-03T13:08:03 < qyx> problematic = a bit slower
2023-09-03T13:08:21 < catphish> i know nothing about most of these ciphers
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2023-09-03T13:10:45 < qyx> ssh-rsa and aes is old and boring
2023-09-03T13:20:31 < catphish> so am i
2023-09-03T13:30:56 < BrainDamage> careful with with your device upgrades tho, ssh does deprecate old algos ( like certain versions of rsa), and your device might get refused connection
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2023-09-03T13:55:04 < catphish> yeah, that's one reason i think a software implementation on a powerful general purpose core might be better
2023-09-03T13:56:25 < catphish> perhaps i'll just adjust my requirements to try to find one with a powerful core and decent availability
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2023-09-03T14:05:52 < Laurence_b> holy shit chris chan is free
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2023-09-03T14:19:43 < catphish> ^ dafuq did i just read
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2023-09-03T14:31:19 < Laurence_b> the most famous person on the interwebs has been released from prison with all charges dropped
2023-09-03T15:10:42 < Laurence_b> the chad chris chan versus the virgin prosecuter
2023-09-03T15:19:52 -!- [itchyjunk] [~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470] has joined ##stm32
2023-09-03T15:48:21 < catphish> "most famous person on the internet"
2023-09-03T15:48:34 < catphish> *smashes doubt button*
2023-09-03T15:49:22 < BrainDamage> oh, that's nice you got out of jail Laurence_b
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2023-09-03T15:56:18 < Steffanx> Is that nice?
2023-09-03T15:57:49 < BrainDamage> I mean, he had access to the internet before, and likely the only thing he could do. Now he can do other things, so less irc contact, so it's a win for us, at least.
2023-09-03T16:16:45 < Steffanx> True :D
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2023-09-03T16:48:09 < qyx> zyp: so zmq_receive stalls after some time when used over ipc:/// transport
2023-09-03T16:48:19 < qyx> using tcp:// it works
2023-09-03T16:48:37 < qyx> it simply stops waiting for a message forever
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2023-09-03T19:53:26 < \dev\ice> I have UART data where frames separated by not transmiting for 2+ bytes time. Any suggestion how to detect end of frames? What cames to my mind is to configure/reconfigure extra timer on each received bytes and if timer fires - mark situation as end of frame.
2023-09-03T20:03:28 < zyp> IIRC modbus does something like that
2023-09-03T20:03:31 < zyp> karlp would know
2023-09-03T20:04:58 < zyp> although, I'd argue it's bad protocol design to rely on timing, especially anything as short as just a couple of byte times
2023-09-03T20:05:44 < zyp> because timing information gets muddled by any sort of buffering, so this needs to be handled before any buffering
2023-09-03T20:17:57 < \dev\ice> agree
2023-09-03T20:18:51 < \dev\ice> in my case it's not even has "interframe gaps" but uses 9 bit UART too :-) 
2023-09-03T20:19:02 < zyp> that's less of an issue
2023-09-03T20:20:07 < zyp> oh, the newer stm32s have timeout detection built into the UARTs
2023-09-03T20:20:28 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6CAEE.png
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2023-09-03T20:21:44 < \dev\ice> hmm
2023-09-03T20:22:22 < zyp> you just configure a timeout in USARTx_RTOR and then you get a RTOF interrupt when there's not been any activity for that many bit times
2023-09-03T20:24:50 < zyp> I think anything newer than F4 should have this feature
2023-09-03T20:25:22 < zyp> i.e. everything but F1, F2, F4 and L1
2023-09-03T20:26:07 < qyx> modbus does break iirc
2023-09-03T20:26:11 < qyx> same as LIN
2023-09-03T20:26:33 < zyp> break detection is much easier, since pretty much everything has an interrupt for that
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2023-09-03T20:28:23 < qyx> ok I was wrong
2023-09-03T20:28:46 < qyx> modbus apparently uses 3.5 char idle as the frame delimiter
2023-09-03T20:28:56 < qyx> that's weid
2023-09-03T20:30:03 < \dev\ice> what's break?
2023-09-03T20:30:44 < zyp> the line being low for more than a byte time
2023-09-03T20:30:47 < qyx> the "not idle" state
2023-09-03T20:32:38 < zyp> start bit is low and stop bit is high, so sending the byte 0x00 becomes 0 00000000 1 on the line
2023-09-03T20:33:08 < zyp> i.e. with an 8-bit UART the longest valid series of low bits are 9
2023-09-03T20:33:18 < \dev\ice> understood
2023-09-03T20:33:23 < zyp> if you've got 10 or more, it gets detected as a break frame
2023-09-03T20:33:30 < zyp> some protocols use that for framing
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2023-09-03T22:24:40 < ColdKeyboard> If I'm debugging .elf file that is "app only" and the device has bootloader+app.
2023-09-03T22:25:08 < ColdKeyboard> Can I just use the app .elf file or both app + bootloader need to be merged before I can use it for debugging?
2023-09-03T22:32:57 < ventYl> you can switch executable in GDB mid-debugging by using file command
2023-09-03T22:36:44 < ColdKeyboard> When I try to use application .elf file for debugging, almost immediately after loading it the debug session crashes and the mcu resets... :\
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2023-09-03T23:22:31 < mawk> there are 100 lamps, all off, numbered from 1 to 100. the lamps multiple of 1 are toggled 1 time, then the lamps multiple of 2 are toggled 2 times, then lamps multiple of 3 are toggled 3 times, and so on, until the lamps multiple of 100 are toggled 100 times. which lamps are on at the end?
2023-09-03T23:22:48 < mawk> try it zyp it's very fun 100% guaranteed 
2023-09-03T23:23:08 < Steffanx> deja vu
2023-09-03T23:23:12 < mawk> then there's the variant where you only toggle the lamps 1 times instead of n times
2023-09-03T23:23:17 < mawk> but that's easier
2023-09-03T23:23:23 < mawk> no Steffanx it's a variant
2023-09-03T23:23:38 < mawk> the lamps multiple of k get toggled k times
2023-09-03T23:23:47 < mawk> so it's not the same answer as in the original problem
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--- Day changed ma syys 04 2023
2023-09-04T00:07:13 < catphish> puzzling, my JLCPCB order was apparently shipped by https://golden-shine.net/en/about.html
2023-09-04T00:08:37 < catphish> they don't look mature enough to be associated with the JLC/LCSC folks
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2023-09-04T00:41:54 < karlp> modbus doesnt' do break detection, it does t3.5, so longer than the time for 3.5bytes at the baud rate in use.
2023-09-04T00:42:48 < karlp> what you noramlly have to worry about instead is whether you, and all other players on the line are capable of turning around their transceivers promptly :)
2023-09-04T00:43:08 < karlp> I've seen ones that needed upwards of 10ms waiting..
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2023-09-04T01:01:43 < Laurence_b> https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2023/05/10df6-16831190652571-1920.jpg
2023-09-04T01:01:49 < Laurence_b> it begins
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2023-09-04T01:17:20 < mawk> lol
2023-09-04T01:17:23 < mawk> why is he out 
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2023-09-04T02:39:31 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: usually you just load the main application .elf with a break at main() and reset the target; bootloader will do bootloader things and when your app's crt0 calls main() it'll break
2023-09-04T02:40:06 < aandrew> if you have "app only" executable it is probably loading at the bootloader's address instead so you likely won't have anything line up
2023-09-04T03:42:27 < qyx> karlp: yeah I corrected later, for some reason I though it was using breaks
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2023-09-04T05:27:49 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks aandrew I'll give it a go. The main app is compiled and linked with the offset so it should line up properly
2023-09-04T05:28:15 < ColdKeyboard> So sprintf does NOT add \0 at the end of string but snprintf will include \0 at the end regardless?
2023-09-04T05:29:40 < ColdKeyboard> Like sprintf(buff, "%02X", var) would be 2 bytes but snprintf(buff, 2, "%02X", var) would be 3 bytes (complain about len 2 when output is 3 bytes long)
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2023-09-04T09:18:28 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: no, both do, but sprintf is not destination-buffer-size bound, snprintf is
2023-09-04T09:18:58 < qyx> sprintf may overflow the buffer (writing part of the string and the trailing \0 after the end overwriting something else)
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2023-09-04T09:19:37 < qyx> snprintf is guaranteed to write at most the specified size
2023-09-04T09:30:17 < qyx> and include the \0, which is not always obvious
2023-09-04T09:30:49 < qyx> manpage only says it writes 'at most the specified size including the terminating \0'
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2023-09-04T11:47:17 < Mangy_Dog> catphish regarding your JLC order... On strange parts latest factory tour, he mentioned JLC is partnering with other companies as it expands
2023-09-04T11:47:27 < Mangy_Dog> and does repairs to its own factories.
2023-09-04T11:47:31 < Mangy_Dog> so it might be one of the partners
2023-09-04T11:47:50 < Mangy_Dog> thats not saying this other company made you pcb wholy but they might have done part of it
2023-09-04T11:47:53 < catphish> Mangy_Dog: that makes sense, looks like my last 2 assembly orders have been shipped by that company
2023-09-04T11:48:30 < catphish> maybe they just do some QA or something
2023-09-04T11:48:35 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2023-09-04T11:50:16 < jpa-> what is the maximum input voltage on NRST pin? (STM32L451)
2023-09-04T12:03:29 < zyp> jpa-, 4V
2023-09-04T12:04:54 < jpa-> VDD + 0.7V?
2023-09-04T12:04:59 < jpa-> or just 4V always
2023-09-04T12:04:59 < zyp> it's not a FT pin, and absolute max for all other pins are 4.0V max
2023-09-04T12:05:07 < zyp> no, 4.0V regardless of vdd
2023-09-04T12:05:09 < jpa-> ok
2023-09-04T12:05:32 < zyp> why aren't you looking this up yourself? on a phone or something?
2023-09-04T12:05:45 < qyx> haha
2023-09-04T12:05:51 < zyp> I'm sure you know where to find this
2023-09-04T12:05:57 < jpa-> general operating conditions says "All I/O except TT_xx" but i guess NRST is not I/O
2023-09-04T12:06:10 < qyx> isn't it in the pin table?
2023-09-04T12:06:14 < zyp> yes it is
2023-09-04T12:06:18 < jpa-> (and says 5.5V for that row)
2023-09-04T12:06:54 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/OAE5n.png pin type clearly says I/O
2023-09-04T12:07:10 < zyp> and given that NRST is bidirectional, why wouldn't it be? :)
2023-09-04T12:07:15 < jpa-> so why doesn't general operating conditions 5.5V max apply?
2023-09-04T12:07:32 < zyp> where?
2023-09-04T12:08:02 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stm32l451_general_op_io_in.png
2023-09-04T12:08:23 < zyp> ah, right
2023-09-04T12:08:25 < qyx> yes I would say 5.5 V is the correct answer
2023-09-04T12:08:35 < qyx> it is not specified as TT nor FT
2023-09-04T12:08:42 < qyx> it is a general IO
2023-09-04T12:08:42 < zyp> that's interesting, general operating conditions conflict with absolute max
2023-09-04T12:09:05 < zyp> absolute max have three entries: FT, TT and others
2023-09-04T12:09:13 < zyp> and both TT and others are 4.0V max
2023-09-04T12:09:53 < zyp> given conflicting limits, I'd be inclined to assume the lower
2023-09-04T12:10:06 < jpa-> yeah.. fortunately i only need 3.3V, with 1.8V VDD
2023-09-04T12:10:17 < zyp> that should be safe
2023-09-04T12:10:40 < jpa-> PH3-BOOT0 is similarly confusing, doesn't specify TT or FT
2023-09-04T12:11:12 < jpa-> i think i'll throw in a series resistor in any case, i don't need the NRST output functionality
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2023-09-04T15:24:01 < jadew> has test equipment gone up in price or am I not remembering things right
2023-09-04T15:24:07 < jadew> ?
2023-09-04T15:25:59 < jadew> A U1271A seems to be 640 EUR, and I remember you could have it for ~300. In fact I remember they even had a promotion where they would give them away together with a power supply, both for 300 EUR.
2023-09-04T15:26:49 < jadew> Was going to get one for my son, but damn... these prices are nuts.
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2023-09-04T15:43:15 < jadew> Hmm... so my Brymen was 157 EUR when I got it, 10 years ago, it's now 211 EUR. Quite a big price hike, but not as big as for the Keysight ones...
2023-09-04T15:43:31 < zyp> there's been some inflation over the past decade
2023-09-04T15:43:59 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I had to check my invoices, didn't expect to see that I bought it in 2013.
2023-09-04T15:44:40 < jadew> Still, the Keysight one seems to have increased in price a lot more than the others, I wonder if it's a marketing scheme (to set themselves apart or some shit).
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2023-09-04T18:43:25 < karlp> welcome back
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2023-09-04T20:59:00 < Steffanx> What brymen jadew ?
2023-09-04T20:59:26 < karlp> 28:08:06:54        jadew | brymen bm257
2023-09-04T20:59:29 < karlp> (from zypsnips)
2023-09-04T20:59:39 < Steffanx> oh lol
2023-09-04T21:01:57 < Steffanx> Than jadew totally needs a better source for his equipment, because the BM257s (google told me: just slightly improved version) is 107 euro bucks.
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--- Day changed ti syys 05 2023
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2023-09-05T00:48:10 < jadew> karlp, tf you're talking about?
2023-09-05T00:48:26 < jadew> I have the BM 867
2023-09-05T00:49:42 < jadew> I guess brymen is the next best thing for electronics, isn't it?
2023-09-05T00:51:44 < jadew> Kinda wish I got him a keysight. For his first multimeter I got him a cheap one thinking he'll destroy it in no time (he was about 3). Instead he was so happy about it he slept with it under his pillow and took amazing care of it, which made me regret I didn't get him a Simpson. I don't want to repeat the same mistake again.
2023-09-05T00:54:12 < jadew> At the time he couldn't have used a DMM, because he couldn't read numbers, but now I can go for the best I can afford.
2023-09-05T00:55:13 < zyp> speaking of multimeters, I picked up an owon xdm1041 recently
2023-09-05T00:55:42 < zyp> it's probably shit, but it should be less shit than anything else I've got
2023-09-05T00:55:44 < jadew> Looks interesting. How good is it?
2023-09-05T00:55:59 < qyx> are your shits worse?
2023-09-05T00:56:18 < jadew> They're an established brand... so probably decent.
2023-09-05T00:56:40 < jadew> qyx, is that question for zyp or me?
2023-09-05T00:57:08 < zyp> I've ought to have a benchtop DMM for years, but haven't really been able to justify it so far
2023-09-05T00:57:24 < qyx> jadew: for zyp
2023-09-05T00:57:26 < qyx> same here
2023-09-05T00:57:27 < zyp> and I came across this shit on aliexpress and figured it looked reasonable enough
2023-09-05T00:57:34 < qyx> I am eyeballing that riglol too
2023-09-05T00:58:01 < zyp> yeah, I've been thinking whether I should get one of the rigol or siglent DMMs
2023-09-05T00:58:05 < jadew> Has Rigol come out with something new?
2023-09-05T00:58:11 < zyp> don't think so
2023-09-05T00:58:24 < zyp> just the one with the little monochrome lcd
2023-09-05T00:58:50 < zyp> not that it matters much when it's just gonna show numbers
2023-09-05T00:59:06 < zyp> but anyway
2023-09-05T00:59:23 < jadew> Yeah, you can make all the fancy graphs yourself.
2023-09-05T00:59:42 < zyp> given that my other multimeter is a cheap handheld box store one, this owon should be a decent improvement :p
2023-09-05T01:00:12 < jadew> I went for the 34410A (second hand), but I don't remember why, I think it was because of the speed.
2023-09-05T01:00:23 < qyx> I only have a china noname and a uni-t
2023-09-05T01:00:44 < qyx> 34410A is probably the most common one I encountered
2023-09-05T01:00:51 < qyx> it is used everywhere
2023-09-05T01:01:08 < jadew> I think the 34401A is (I have one of these too)
2023-09-05T01:01:27 < jadew> The 34410A is the faster one
2023-09-05T01:01:38 < zyp> I needed a decent multimeter a few weeks ago and ended up borrowing an old fluke 45 I found at work
2023-09-05T01:02:08 < jadew> lol
2023-09-05T01:02:14 < zyp> I much prefer that to handheld multimeters, so it now lives on my desk at the office :p
2023-09-05T01:02:43 < jadew> Ah, so you borrowed it permanently :P
2023-09-05T01:03:14 < zyp> no, I returned it to work, but instead of putting it back on the shelf I found it, I put it on my desk :p
2023-09-05T01:03:29 < jadew> Ah, I thought you borrowed it at work, for work. I get it now.
2023-09-05T01:04:36 < jadew> Bench DMMs are great because they're always there, part of the wall of other stuff, so they don't add to mess on the desk - and you need one all the time anyway.
2023-09-05T01:04:53 < zyp> yeah, hence the owon
2023-09-05T01:05:37 < zyp> they actually make a battery powered version of it as well, maybe I'll get one of those as well if I like this one
2023-09-05T01:06:40 < qyx> how much was it? and where from, eleshop?
2023-09-05T01:07:25 < zyp> the owon? aliexpress, a hundred bucks-ish
2023-09-05T01:07:43 < zyp> I think VAT/shipping brought it to 110-120-ish
2023-09-05T01:07:52 < qyx> m
2023-09-05T01:07:57 < qyx> *hm
2023-09-05T01:08:17 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004613518258.html
2023-09-05T01:08:23 < qyx> is ali ioss now?
2023-09-05T01:08:39 < zyp> they do VOEC at least, which is the norwegian equivalent
2023-09-05T01:09:26 < qyx> I wanted the 6-terminal one though
2023-09-05T01:13:57 < qyx> but this one is shallow enough to fit on the bottom 200 mm deep shelf
2023-09-05T01:17:46 < karlp> 08:06:34        jadew | the BM257 just arrived
2023-09-05T01:17:48 < karlp> 08:06:36        jadew | it's so tiny
2023-09-05T01:17:58 < karlp> I do have noted that you also have a bm867 :)
2023-09-05T01:18:09 < karlp> I have a bm859s.
2023-09-05T01:18:31 < karlp> welcome back though, because I hadn't seen you in a while jadew :)
2023-09-05T01:19:52 < karlp> hrm, xdm1041 looks nice.  my bm859s is basically stuck on my bench anyway, it's "too big" to be really portable.
2023-09-05T01:20:44 < karlp> but yeah, I had a plastic fantastic from when I was in highschool that is fine for... everything except low current, the bm859s was a birthday treat,
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2023-09-05T01:35:47 < jadew> karlp, I remember now! I got the BM257 for my dad :)
2023-09-05T01:36:13 < jadew> Thanks for the welcome :) I've been busy and stressed out.
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2023-09-05T10:28:13 < qyx> how long is hcitool lescan supposed to run?
2023-09-05T10:28:32 < jpa-> infinite
2023-09-05T10:28:37 < qyx> oh
2023-09-05T10:28:57 < jpa-> it will just show all advertisements received, how often each device advertises is up to it and unknown
2023-09-05T10:29:37 < qyx> so if I haven't got anything in 5 minutes I may consider it nonworking then
2023-09-05T10:30:00 < jpa-> probably - most devices send adverts more often after boot
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2023-09-05T12:10:55 < karlp> today in slow tv: https://www.visir.is/g/20232458431d/bein-ut-sending-mot-maelendurnir-enn-i-tunnunum  (scroll down a little, the "share" link on the live stream is busted)
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2023-09-05T15:06:45 < tct> how's everybody doing today?
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2023-09-05T15:31:35 < zyp> tct, great, how about you?
2023-09-05T15:39:31  * karlp is struggling to come up with interests to put on a resume, but otherwise, it's a nice day.
2023-09-05T15:42:24 < qyx> beer doesn't look good?
2023-09-05T15:42:47 < jadew> karlp, in what form?
2023-09-05T15:42:48 < karlp> heh
2023-09-05T15:43:09 < karlp> just something to make myself more of a person, less of a "here's some work I've done"
2023-09-05T15:43:23 < karlp> I've got to write a cover letter for a job application and I'm.... not really feeling it.
2023-09-05T15:43:34 < karlp> a bit out of practice, but it will come to me I guess.
2023-09-05T15:44:25 < karlp> problem is I have in the past tailored cvs for the jobs in question, but now I'm sending some cold ones :)
2023-09-05T15:45:14 < jadew> I only had the one, and sent it to a couple of places
2023-09-05T15:45:56 < jadew> The cover letter should be you, but include any boring stuff.
2023-09-05T15:46:03 < jadew> *don't include
2023-09-05T15:46:07 < jadew> :)
2023-09-05T15:47:29 < karlp> thanks... :)
2023-09-05T15:47:35 < jadew> Maybe have someone review for you
2023-09-05T15:47:50 < jadew> (The CV)
2023-09-05T15:47:54 < karlp> yeah, it's been reviewed already, it's "fine" I just don't want to write the intro letter.
2023-09-05T15:48:27 < jadew> If you have the option of writing an e-mail, do that instead and skip the letter.
2023-09-05T15:49:41 < jadew> (and hope it doesn't get stuck in HR)
2023-09-05T15:49:53 < karlp> I do not.
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2023-09-05T15:55:56 < jadew> karlp, what position are you looking for?
2023-09-05T15:56:22 < karlp> this one is even in english if you want to read it yourself: https://alfred.is/starf/global-head-of-sales-laki-power
2023-09-05T15:56:25 < karlp> (URL is misleading)
2023-09-05T15:57:25 < jadew> I was able to navigate the cookie dialog, by just clicking on the least prominent buttons.
2023-09-05T15:58:30 < jadew> Sounds like a cool job
2023-09-05T16:33:42 < qyx> I hate old LEDs
2023-09-05T16:33:49 < qyx> 1.4 mA and they are barely visible
2023-09-05T16:34:09 < qyx> do we have zypsnips on LEDs?
2023-09-05T16:36:55 < qyx> hm cannot see any
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2023-09-05T16:55:25 < tct> we should start doing zypsnip tattoos
2023-09-05T16:55:48 < tct> zyp, doing fine too, thanks!
2023-09-05T16:56:21 < qyx> 6 mA still not enough
2023-09-05T16:56:47 < zyp> qyx, green? you want InGaN, they light up plenty at 100uA
2023-09-05T16:58:18 < zyp> for 0402, I like the ones I've used here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ohk8C/f7_trace.pdf
2023-09-05T16:58:53 < zyp> *0603
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2023-09-05T17:16:44 < qyx> zyp: greeny-green and crimson red
2023-09-05T17:16:53 < qyx> ie. not those yellowish greens
2023-09-05T17:19:11 < qyx> I should probably just use rgb and lightpipes
2023-09-05T17:22:35 < qyx> ncd0603 doesn't look any special to me, are they good?
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2023-09-05T17:47:25 < zyp> InGaN is greener than AlGaInP, which the shittier greens are
2023-09-05T17:54:10 < Steffanx> Where do you want to put it tct ? https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/stm32-rap.txt
2023-09-05T18:02:52 < qyx> so there are exactly three ingan green LEDs on the whole mouser
2023-09-05T18:02:57 < qyx> 3mm tht
2023-09-05T18:05:40 < karlp> lightpipe baby.
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2023-09-05T18:18:17 < qyx> dual pipes stacked vertically are not that common
2023-09-05T18:18:20 < qyx> <10 mm
2023-09-05T18:20:37 < qyx> but this would work https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Dialight/515-1114F?qs=5wEitC2FuVbdUTEz0Z184A%3D%3D
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2023-09-05T18:54:03 < tct> Steffanx, :D
2023-09-05T18:55:12 < tct> awww, I remember when I made this: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/family-photo.jpg
2023-09-05T18:55:30 < tct> karlp, still happy with your choice?
2023-09-05T18:59:32 < qyx> lol steff
2023-09-05T19:01:40 < tct> yeah he was more... daddy back then
2023-09-05T19:14:56 < Steffanx> Now I'm more dekar 
2023-09-05T19:15:54 < Steffanx> We lost a least 4 of that photo, tct 🥲
2023-09-05T19:18:01 < tct> indeed
2023-09-05T19:23:02 < qyx> I am not there
2023-09-05T19:23:04 < qyx> how old is it
2023-09-05T19:23:21 < qyx> 7y ago
2023-09-05T19:23:35 < BrainDamage> I was in the channel, but I didn't ask to be in
2023-09-05T19:24:48 < Steffanx> Neither did I..
2023-09-05T19:25:23 < BrainDamage> I distinctively remember trolling ##stm32 during the only time that I went to ccc, which would be in 2012
2023-09-05T19:25:35 < BrainDamage> using peet's account
2023-09-05T19:25:49 < Steffanx> The sauce.
2023-09-05T19:46:41 < karlp> tct: I didn't make that, I just saved it.
2023-09-05T19:47:43 < karlp> is rob235 upgrdman? 
2023-09-05T19:49:32 < zyp> no, rob235 is bitmask IIRC
2023-09-05T19:50:38 < zyp> 00:04:05 -!- rob235 is now known as bitmask
2023-09-05T20:02:47 < tct> karlp, yeah I made that. you saved it. but as the top-left part of the image states: you wanted to choose the ballerina. my question is whether you're still happy with that choice :D
2023-09-05T20:03:23 < tct> we lost r2 too :<
2023-09-05T20:10:26 < Steffanx> Was it a loss, tct?
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2023-09-05T20:52:40  * con3 lives
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2023-09-05T21:16:35 < Steffanx> gooday mr con3 
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2023-09-05T21:32:28 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 83 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 83 normal]
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2023-09-05T21:50:38 < nomorekaki> hello steppan
2023-09-05T21:51:54 < Steffanx> Hello käkkii
2023-09-05T21:53:46 < nomorekaki> käki = cuckoo
2023-09-05T22:03:30 < Steffanx> is it time for pizza yet nomorekaki ?
2023-09-05T22:03:44 < nomorekaki> pizza hmm
2023-09-05T22:04:17 < nomorekaki> thanks for reminding me of important things
2023-09-05T22:04:34 < nomorekaki> I need to think about pizza
2023-09-05T22:05:19 < Steffanx> With or without pineapple?
2023-09-05T22:17:18 < nomorekaki> without unless tropicana or americana
2023-09-05T22:18:33 < nomorekaki> is it pizza day of steffs tuesday?
2023-09-05T22:29:47 < nomorekaki> steff are you making pizza?
2023-09-05T22:41:47 < Steffanx> No. I had schnitzel today
2023-09-05T22:43:28 < nomorekaki> how many pizzas?
2023-09-05T22:45:50 < Steffanx> 2.8
2023-09-05T22:49:56 < nomorekaki> cool
2023-09-05T22:50:35 < nomorekaki> what are the toppings for steff pizza?
2023-09-05T22:51:47 < Steffanx> There is none. I don't like pizza 
2023-09-05T22:52:25 < qyx> you don't what?
2023-09-05T22:53:47 < nomorekaki> sus
2023-09-05T22:54:37 < Steffanx> Lol. 
2023-09-05T22:57:54 < nomorekaki> hella sus steff
2023-09-05T22:58:38 < nomorekaki> next time you answer: I love any pizza
2023-09-05T23:00:50 < tct> qyx, looks like there's a chance that v2 will go full MCU rather than SAMA5D (now that they know what they need)
2023-09-05T23:01:17 < tct> mono, 4kHz recordings
2023-09-05T23:02:02 < Steffanx> Lol
2023-09-05T23:02:22 < Steffanx> Samad5 can do it all too. No need for lunix
2023-09-05T23:04:19 < tct> yeah but megabucks
2023-09-05T23:09:44 < Steffanx> Nah
2023-09-05T23:16:08 < qyx> tct: lold hard
2023-09-05T23:17:16 < qyx> but what 4 kHz sound will be pretty distorted
2023-09-05T23:17:31 < qyx> I would go with 16k at least + opus encoding
2023-09-05T23:27:57 < Steffanx> Such over engineering qyx 
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2023-09-06T00:36:24 < nomorekaki> I learned how to install win10 updates without installing win11
2023-09-06T00:36:41 < nomorekaki> disconnect internets before win11 downloads fully
2023-09-06T00:37:12 < nomorekaki> then winupdate proceeds to install all the updates it got by that point
2023-09-06T00:37:32 < nomorekaki> then click the pause for 7days button
2023-09-06T00:41:44 < specing> the trouble some people put themselves through just to avoid installing GNU+Linux...
2023-09-06T00:42:41 < nomorekaki> where is dongs?
2023-09-06T00:43:12 < nomorekaki> he would be triggered now
2023-09-06T00:45:23 < Steffanx> Just disable tpm and be done with it nomorekaki 
2023-09-06T00:46:08 < Steffanx> And there are probably register settings around 
2023-09-06T00:46:09 < nomorekaki> no
2023-09-06T00:46:28 < Steffanx> Or just install win11 and be done with it
2023-09-06T00:46:30 < nomorekaki> I should reinstall win10 though
2023-09-06T00:46:58 < nomorekaki> this one has been working fine for too long
2023-09-06T00:47:16 < nomorekaki> like working 100% fine
2023-09-06T00:47:57 < nomorekaki> it's sus
2023-09-06T00:59:10 < specing> nomorekaki: you can put windows behind a router, but not set default route. Just configure how to access the 'net in programs that need to
2023-09-06T01:00:05 < nomorekaki> sounds like a task
2023-09-06T01:00:58 < specing> not really, just set it to static IP and don't provide a route.. or provide wrong route
2023-09-06T01:02:50 < nomorekaki> you don't understand the mindset behind using windows at first place
2023-09-06T01:04:58 < nomorekaki> in linux mindset you are the sysadmin and sometimes even the developer of your operating system
2023-09-06T01:05:32 < nomorekaki> I try not to be
2023-09-06T01:06:02 < Steffanx> Even your farming machines run lunix.
2023-09-06T01:06:13 < Steffanx> Install lunix
2023-09-06T01:07:23 < qyx> nomorekaki: I am not, I am a simple user
2023-09-06T01:07:29 < qyx> for several years now
2023-09-06T01:07:35 < nomorekaki> it's possible
2023-09-06T01:07:44 < qyx> I even don't change defaults
2023-09-06T01:08:07 < qyx> there are basically threee things I change on a newly installed desktop
2023-09-06T01:09:12 < qyx> main panel items, because those DE folks have weird perception of how things should be
2023-09-06T01:09:22 < qyx> 2. background
2023-09-06T01:09:31 < qyx> and win+arrows for changing desktops
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2023-09-06T01:12:17 < nomorekaki> maybe I should give a try to kde
2023-09-06T01:12:42 < zyp> I'm running KDE at work, works well enough for me
2023-09-06T01:12:44 < nomorekaki> I have been sour since kde 4 launched
2023-09-06T01:13:39 < nomorekaki> "well enough"
2023-09-06T01:13:53 < qyx> I am using xfce since KDE 4 came out
2023-09-06T01:14:01 < nomorekaki> same same
2023-09-06T01:14:02 < qyx> KDE 3 was the last I used iirc
2023-09-06T01:15:58 < nomorekaki> what distros even come with kde now?
2023-09-06T01:17:29 < nomorekaki> ubuntu went all gnome I think
2023-09-06T01:17:53 < nomorekaki> note: I only use debian based distros
2023-09-06T01:18:55 < nomorekaki> actually ubuntu based because PPAs
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2023-09-06T01:20:20 < nomorekaki> I don't know what is the newest thing has there been new things in package management
2023-09-06T01:20:29 < nomorekaki> is everything docker and shit now
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2023-09-06T14:23:49 < tct> I love SSH'ing to a remote server to read this MODT:   > Unauthorized access is strictly prohibited.
2023-09-06T14:23:52 < tct> yeah, let's show them!
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2023-09-06T15:39:30 < Steffanx> Did you leave a message? "Tct was here \o/"?
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2023-09-06T15:42:24 < jpa-> does anyone know of a stm32flash alternative with a permissive license? preferrably in C
2023-09-06T15:42:38 < jpa-> i feel lazy reimplementing from spec
2023-09-06T15:44:30 < zyp> specifically for the uart bootloader?
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2023-09-06T16:18:46 < jpa-> SPI, but i think the protocol is pretty much the same
2023-09-06T16:19:36 < jpa-> i guess i'll just code my own
2023-09-06T16:46:43 < Steffanx> You better give it a permissive license jpa- 
2023-09-06T16:50:00 < jpa-> nah, this work project is just taking, not giving
2023-09-06T17:25:50 < Steffanx> I'm disappointed Mr jpa- 
2023-09-06T17:37:50 < srk> stk500!
2023-09-06T17:49:41 < Steffanx> A blast from the past srk
2023-09-06T17:51:28 < ventYl> prepare your parallel ports!
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2023-09-06T20:45:32 < jerkey> yeah why not stk500
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2023-09-06T22:19:06 < nomorekaki> what is steffs favourite food?
2023-09-06T22:19:21 < qyx> pizza maybe?
2023-09-06T22:31:14 < nomorekaki> cool one of logic tests I made for my code revealed I hadn't implemented one edge case that I assumed to be there
2023-09-06T22:33:06 < nomorekaki> 1 functional error per 1000lines of test code
2023-09-06T22:34:15 < nomorekaki> lets write more
2023-09-06T22:40:21 < nomorekaki> I'm same time impressed of the functional quality of the code being tested but also intrigued that adding layer of swiss cheese caught one flaw
2023-09-06T22:52:53 < Steffanx> i have no favourite food nomorekaki 
2023-09-06T22:53:08 < nomorekaki> true
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2023-09-06T22:58:25 < Steffanx> found 1.5 hours of music for you nomorekaki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFxR_7Xr7V8
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2023-09-06T22:58:57 < nomorekaki> catphish_: how is the local EV shop doing?
2023-09-06T22:59:06 < nomorekaki> have you been in touch?
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2023-09-07T00:47:18 < catphish> nomorekaki: they're doing okay, lots of business, lots of technical issues :)
2023-09-07T00:47:29 < catphish> nomorekaki: i designed them a new BMS last week
2023-09-07T00:55:26 < jerkey> catphish: what BMS chip did you use
2023-09-07T00:56:56 < catphish> jerkey: this BMS uses the chip already inside Tesla Model S modules, which is a bq76pl536a-q1
2023-09-07T00:59:54 < jerkey> oh nice those BMS are alright.  you can use them as-is pretty easily
2023-09-07T01:00:09 < jerkey> personally i am not into texass instruments, i like maxim
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2023-09-07T01:27:45 < zyp> are there any phys that can do both 100base-t1 and 1000base-t1?
2023-09-07T01:31:10 < qyx> I haven't found any
2023-09-07T01:31:20 < qyx> I wanted one for my backplane stuff
2023-09-07T01:31:32 < qyx> planning to use 100base-t1 now
2023-09-07T01:32:08 < qyx> what about those gigabitz capable of doing 100base-fx we were talking about recently?
2023-09-07T01:32:19 < zyp> I see there's some media converters that can do both, I wonder if they've got one or if they're muxing two individual PHYs internally
2023-09-07T01:32:29 < qyx> just repeating symbols 10x without MDI encoding
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2023-09-07T01:33:17 < qyx> idk what's your application but I would accept lvpecl/lvds 100/1000
2023-09-07T01:35:01 < zyp> changeable tools on the robot arm
2023-09-07T01:35:10 < zyp> so I need something designed for some distance
2023-09-07T01:36:29 < zyp> and it'd be nice to be able to pass gigabit if there's a tool that needs the throughput, e.g. a machine vision camera
2023-09-07T01:36:58 < zyp> but also be able to run 100base-t to a cheaper mcu that only does RMII
2023-09-07T01:37:12 < qyx> makes sense
2023-09-07T01:37:26 < qyx> do you want podl too?
2023-09-07T01:37:59 < zyp> no, I think it'd be easier to just run power separately
2023-09-07T01:38:20 < zyp> probably a CAN bus too for even lower cost/demands
2023-09-07T01:39:20 < qyx> DP83TG720S-Q1 claims both speeds
2023-09-07T01:39:29 < qyx> "with a bom change" whatever it is
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2023-09-07T01:40:23 < zyp> IIRC they've got footprint compatible ones, but not both in one
2023-09-07T01:40:32 < zyp> NXP does the same
2023-09-07T01:40:40 < qyx> oh yes
2023-09-07T01:40:55 < qyx> and BCM89883?
2023-09-07T01:41:00 < qyx> probably unobtainium
2023-09-07T01:41:15 < zyp> ah
2023-09-07T01:41:23 < zyp> that looks like what I was looking for, nice
2023-09-07T01:42:18 < qyx> unrelated, AFBR-S50MV68B looks nice too
2023-09-07T01:42:51 < qyx> with 10m max distance it can be used for much more use cases than those from ST's
2023-09-07T01:43:22 < qyx> also costs 10x more and out of stock
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2023-09-07T01:48:07 < zyp> hmm, BCM89883 is SGMII, that's slightly inconvenient
2023-09-07T01:48:20 < zyp> doesn't seem to be a RGMII equivalent
2023-09-07T01:57:36 < qyx> TI has a pretty simple converter
2023-09-07T01:57:44 < qyx> and you could switch sgmii between T1 and FO
2023-09-07T01:58:16 < qyx> I bet there is an industrial POF SFP
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2023-09-07T09:49:25 < qyx> https://blog.alexewerlof.com/p/tech-debt-day
2023-09-07T09:49:38 < qyx> I decided I will try that
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2023-09-07T11:18:16 < Steffanx> Sounds like you'll need some discipline for that qyx. Especially because you and yourself are the only team members (?)
2023-09-07T11:20:00 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: if just wishing for willpower gave you some, we'd be much further ahead in civilization
2023-09-07T11:22:45 < qyx> lol
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2023-09-07T11:50:37 < ventYl> qyx: do you realize that this guy comes from automotive?
2023-09-07T11:51:45 < Steffanx> Sure BrainDamage, did I say something else?
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2023-09-07T13:08:21 < qyx> ventYl: that doesn't mean there is no tech debt in other areas of.. whatever
2023-09-07T13:09:14 < ventYl> I wouldn't expect an industry, which is a tech debt on its own being able to deal with tech debt
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2023-09-07T13:25:30 < Steffanx> ventYl and his love for the automotive industry. 
2023-09-07T13:25:35 < Steffanx> It's great
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2023-09-07T13:26:14 < ventYl> all that almost three years after I left it
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2023-09-07T14:04:01 < qyx> nah my dow corning 732 is dead
2023-09-07T14:04:58 < qyx> do we have any alternatives? elastic single-component fast curing tacky adhesive
2023-09-07T14:05:22 < qyx> maybe some MS polymers
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--- Day changed pe syys 08 2023
2023-09-08T00:34:57 < qyx> the hell are G030 prices
2023-09-08T00:35:12 < qyx> why are they so cheap now?
2023-09-08T00:50:00 < Steffanx> ST loves us again
2023-09-08T00:51:48 < nomorekaki> how cheap?
2023-09-08T00:55:28 < qyx> 1.40 eur or so in singles
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2023-09-08T09:43:30 < zyp> qyx, what, you can get them much cheaper than that
2023-09-08T09:44:27 < zyp> e.g. https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontroller-Units-MCUs-MPUs-SOCs_STMicroelectronics-STM32G030F6P6_C724040.html
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2023-09-08T12:49:18 < qyx> I am not buying from lcsc
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2023-09-08T15:06:44 < Mangy_Dog> qyx oh?
2023-09-08T15:06:51 < Mangy_Dog> something happened?
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2023-09-08T15:47:59 < Steffanx> Principles happened 
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2023-09-08T15:54:03 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: why should I? customs hassle, pretty expensive shipping (at least in the past)
2023-09-08T15:54:25 < qyx> mouser free shipping for me, next day delivery
2023-09-08T15:55:13 < qyx> also not supporting china when I can avoid that
2023-09-08T16:00:05 < zyp> it's a question of how many you're buying
2023-09-08T16:00:55 < zyp> if you're buying enough, the savings in part costs make up for the shipping cost
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2023-09-08T16:19:15 < qyx> the real question now is not whether they cost 1.40 or 1.60
2023-09-08T16:19:35 < qyx> but will they be able to control a two-phase boost converter?
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2023-09-08T16:20:23 < qyx> heh epever is using F030 for their new line of MPPT regulators if I remember correctly
2023-09-08T16:22:01 < qyx> unrelated, I always struggle in the first phases of a design when I am deciding what enclosure to use, etc.
2023-09-08T16:23:26 < qyx> so I am considering sacrificing the first revision/prototype as a development board on a standard pcb of eg. 100x100mm size
2023-09-08T16:23:46 < qyx> with appropriate test points, big connectors, debug ports, etc.
2023-09-08T16:24:39 < qyx> and then after the first validation checks are done, design for a particular enclosure, reducing debug features and making things "final"
2023-09-08T16:37:45 < jpa-> inductor current limit might need some external component with F030
2023-09-08T16:40:58 < jpa-> and at 48 MHz max, the PWM resolution is somewhat limited (assuming your boost will run at >= 500kHz)
2023-09-08T16:50:37 < qyx> hm G030 should be 64MHz which is 250 kHz at 8bit
2023-09-08T16:51:28 < qyx> hm yeah i need a comparator
2023-09-08T16:57:10 < jpa-> STM32F334 is not a bad choice either, with HRTIM
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2023-09-08T19:51:53 < qyx> jpa-: G4 has it too, one subfamily
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2023-09-08T22:46:29 < nomorekaki> wireless headsets recommendations?
2023-09-08T22:46:47 < nomorekaki> big battery and fast to charge
2023-09-08T22:46:50 < zyp> I like my bose 700 something something
2023-09-08T22:46:52 < nomorekaki> comfortable
2023-09-08T22:47:07 < nomorekaki> And I preffer not closed
2023-09-08T22:47:41 < Steffanx> Time to go shopping, because comfortable is also a bit personal
2023-09-08T22:49:38 < nomorekaki> comfortable means large
2023-09-08T22:49:58 < nomorekaki> so large non closed and big battery
2023-09-08T22:52:24 < nomorekaki> non closed means semi open or open back
2023-09-08T22:52:43 < Steffanx> i wonder if those exist much. I think wireless is often used during commuting and stuffa nd then you usually dont want it to be very open.
2023-09-08T22:54:46 < nomorekaki> lies
2023-09-08T22:55:02 < Steffanx> ok i lied
2023-09-08T22:55:02 < nomorekaki> open backs consume a lot more power
2023-09-08T22:55:44 < nomorekaki> also everybody uses those in privacy of their homes etc.
2023-09-08T22:56:19 < Steffanx> and then you want wonderful great audio quality and go wired and use snake oil.
2023-09-08T22:56:40 < nomorekaki> flac only
2023-09-08T22:56:56 < nomorekaki> and dare you not use a separate headphone dac / amp
2023-09-08T22:59:02 < nomorekaki> btw we did that 128/320/raw test with friend and after maybe half an hour of excersice I did consistent 5/6 correct
2023-09-08T22:59:31 < Steffanx> luck.
2023-09-08T22:59:35 < Steffanx> need a better test
2023-09-08T22:59:37 < Steffanx> more samples
2023-09-08T22:59:38 < nomorekaki> consistent
2023-09-08T22:59:40 < nomorekaki> *
2023-09-08T23:00:36 < nomorekaki> https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality
2023-09-08T23:01:39 < nomorekaki> I had special competition headphones for that but no DAC
2023-09-08T23:02:30 < nomorekaki> integrated audio
2023-09-08T23:03:10 < nomorekaki> by special competition headphones I mean variant that has more "harsh" or "analytical" sound not pleasant for daily driving
2023-09-08T23:03:43 < qyx> do you perceive the difference when sitting in a tractor?
2023-09-08T23:04:43 < nomorekaki> why would I use headphones in tractor?
2023-09-08T23:05:03 < nomorekaki> all have bluetooth stereo
2023-09-08T23:06:04 < qyx> hm
2023-09-08T23:06:15 < qyx> do those 3 samples change? or are they still the same
2023-09-08T23:06:25 < nomorekaki> every time you load the page
2023-09-08T23:06:28 < nomorekaki> it randomizes
2023-09-08T23:06:58 < qyx> it randomizes the same six
2023-09-08T23:07:25 < nomorekaki> yes
2023-09-08T23:07:31 < nomorekaki> and positions of different samples
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2023-09-09T00:09:19 < qyx> I have a list of structures/instances with length of about 10-1000 in 99% of cases
2023-09-09T00:10:03 < qyx> and they are being searched for by a string
2023-09-09T00:10:34 < qyx> what approach would you choose?
2023-09-09T00:11:25 < qyx> (the current one: linear search of a linked list, my improved one: 1-byte hash of the string and a table of 256 linked lists, then a linear search within the sub-linked list)
2023-09-09T00:11:48 < qyx> which sounds like a simple improvement and is basically a hash table
2023-09-09T00:12:05 < zyp> so you need sort of a map?
2023-09-09T00:12:17 < qyx> yeah string->struct
2023-09-09T00:12:34 < zyp> is this thing dynamic?
2023-09-09T00:12:42 < qyx> I could also build a tree by individual characters
2023-09-09T00:12:50 < qyx> not really, read config once, create the struct
2023-09-09T00:13:07 < qyx> it is a list of mqtt topics I need to process
2023-09-09T00:13:17 < veverak1> trie
2023-09-09T00:13:40 < zyp> ah, right, so when you receive a message, you have to dispatch it
2023-09-09T00:14:02 < zyp> trie sounds about right
2023-09-09T00:14:13 < qyx> oh though it was a typo
2023-09-09T00:14:14 < qyx> let's check
2023-09-09T00:14:41 < zyp> since it's mostly static, you can just build and balance it, then lookups will be fast
2023-09-09T00:14:51 < veverak1> it should be linear relative to the _length of the key_
2023-09-09T00:14:53 < veverak1> which is nice
2023-09-09T00:16:14 < qyx> ok so it is a simple tree with every node indexed by a single character
2023-09-09T00:16:34 < zyp> well, you could make it a binary search tree
2023-09-09T00:19:04 < qyx> k thank you pros for a new insight
2023-09-09T00:24:30 < qyx> HAMT is nice too, has tabl + trie
2023-09-09T00:24:34 < qyx> *hash table
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2023-09-10T20:51:08 < jbo> sup
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2023-09-10T21:19:07 < jerkey> hey
2023-09-10T21:31:40 < Steffanx> Ho
2023-09-10T21:32:56 < qyx> No
2023-09-10T21:33:17 < jpa-> Go
2023-09-10T21:46:41 < mawk> [[-4, -15], [2, 7]]^100 = [[a, c], [b, d]], what is 3a+3b+b+4d ?
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2023-09-10T22:11:43 < Steffanx> 42
2023-09-10T22:16:15 < mawk> no
2023-09-10T22:16:16 < mawk> it's 7
2023-09-10T22:16:29 < mawk> but you need to prove why
2023-09-10T22:16:37 < mawk> look at my collection of hypnotics: https://i.imgur.com/mnlcvXQ.jpeg
2023-09-10T22:16:39 < mawk> very pretty 
2023-09-10T22:19:07 < Steffanx> and cat hair
2023-09-10T22:24:09 < mawk> of course
2023-09-10T22:24:16 < mawk> it's unavoidable
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2023-09-10T22:33:27 < qyx> fuk mosquitto broker
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2023-09-10T22:33:38 < qyx> it doesn't reconnect bridges
2023-09-10T22:34:19 < qyx> and that's sad
2023-09-10T22:43:42 < jerkey> qyx: is that a public server?  Do you run your own server?
2023-09-10T22:46:41 < mawk> I also have a collection of benzos and a collection of neuroleptics
2023-09-10T22:48:46 < Steffanx> I have some vitamin C pills in the house, want some of those tooo mawk ?
2023-09-10T22:49:18 < Steffanx> dexmono eye drops maybe?
2023-09-10T22:49:27 < mawk> no
2023-09-10T22:49:32 < mawk> you have juicy fentanyl 
2023-09-10T22:49:35 < mawk> that's better 
2023-09-10T22:54:43 < Steffanx> idk if its better. Not for me for sure
2023-09-10T23:03:49 < Steffanx> When will you be 100% clean mr mawk?
2023-09-10T23:04:40 < mawk> maybe in a few decades
2023-09-10T23:04:45 < mawk> maybe one
2023-09-10T23:05:42 < nomorekaki> mawk is doing fentanyl now?
2023-09-10T23:05:51 < mawk> no 
2023-09-10T23:06:00 < mawk> but if you gave me some I'd happily do it
2023-09-10T23:06:09 < mawk> but fentanyl isn't very good anyway
2023-09-10T23:06:11 < Steffanx> happily.
2023-09-10T23:06:13 < Steffanx> ..
2023-09-10T23:06:16 < mawk> I had it before, medically sourced 
2023-09-10T23:06:25 < mawk> duragesic patches for cancer pain
2023-09-10T23:06:38 < mawk> I cut them up in 32×32 squares and smoke them or chew them
2023-09-10T23:06:48 < Steffanx> Yeah me too
2023-09-10T23:06:50 < Steffanx> lol
2023-09-10T23:12:45 < nomorekaki> steff you sussin
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2023-09-10T23:19:23 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEym-eKkgOE some fresh eurodance
2023-09-10T23:19:31 < Steffanx> Just stick to your sauna to relax nomorekaki 
2023-09-10T23:19:45 < nomorekaki> ofc
2023-09-10T23:19:57 < nomorekaki> it's the bestest relaxing
2023-09-10T23:23:44 < Steffanx> Not so great eurodance meh, nomorekaki 
2023-09-10T23:24:54 < nomorekaki> eurodance(parody)
2023-09-10T23:27:51 < qyx> jerkey: both my own, it works under normal circumstances
2023-09-10T23:28:21 < qyx> it does not withthis particular version or their combination
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--- Day changed ma syys 11 2023
2023-09-11T00:00:53 < jerkey> time to whip out wireshark!
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2023-09-11T00:19:49 < qyx> there is nothung to wireshark
2023-09-11T00:20:14 < qyx> after a temporal network outage it simply doesn't try to reconnect
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2023-09-11T00:42:29 < jerkey> oh then i guess one would have to look at the scripts and see how it's run and restarted.  Does it have a systemd script or something?
2023-09-11T00:48:34 < qyx> no the daemon keeps runnig, it is a documented bug
2023-09-11T00:50:43 < jerkey> maybe you can make a watchdog program that kills it (so it respawns) if it stops working
2023-09-11T00:55:07 < qyx> yeah but it has a drawbacks, all pending qos 1/2 messages get lost
2023-09-11T00:55:16 < qyx> ince the network outage
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2023-09-11T01:32:22 < mawk> what's my matrix value zyp 
2023-09-11T01:32:32 < mawk> [[-4, -15], [2, 7]]^100 = [[a, c], [b, d]], what is 3a+3b+b+4d ?
2023-09-11T01:33:11 < mawk> you can use the famous theorem of "if it works for n = 1 and n = 2 then it works for n = 100 otherwise maths wouldn't make sense"
2023-09-11T01:33:25 < mawk> the value for the 1st and 2nd powers of that matrix is 7
2023-09-11T01:33:45 < mawk> but who knows, maybe it's not 7 for the exponent 100
2023-09-11T01:39:27 < mawk> also subsidiary questions, for which other values p q r s do we have pa+qb+rc+sd be a constant ?
2023-09-11T01:39:43 < mawk> and for which other matrices is this phenomenon possible?
2023-09-11T01:40:01 < mawk> is it also possible to have alternating values depending on the exponent?
2023-09-11T01:40:35 < mawk> I recall that in the most general case if you take a matrix A and random p q r s values then the result is almost always exploding with n
2023-09-11T01:57:37 < mawk> you can do it too Steffanx 
2023-09-11T01:57:49 < mawk> you can use your best friend Gram-Schmidt
2023-09-11T02:12:28 < Steffanx> I told Gram to go away
2023-09-11T02:12:38 < Steffanx> Schmidt followed
2023-09-11T02:25:05 < mawk> :(
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2023-09-11T11:03:55 < mawk> so zyp ???
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2023-09-11T12:12:15 < mawk> ah I made a typo it should be 3a+3b+c+4d obviously 
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2023-09-11T14:31:31 < jbo> zypperino
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2023-09-11T15:13:52 < Steffanx> How's tectuino? 
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2023-09-11T16:56:39 < jbo> Steffanx, doing okay
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2023-09-11T18:31:44 < mawk> beautiful soothing music https://youtu.be/zaeuWKNbSEM
2023-09-11T18:31:50 < mawk> listen to it Steffanx 
2023-09-11T18:31:58 < mawk> the lyrics are very poetic
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2023-09-11T19:21:37 < Steffanx> Almost died mawk. Thanks
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2023-09-11T19:49:50 < mawk> very good
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2023-09-11T20:06:07 < Mangy_Dog> christ i first read that as mawk died D:
2023-09-11T20:19:33 < qyx> BLE pros, which SoC should I use for a simple low power sensor application?
2023-09-11T20:20:15 < qyx> even considerig powering with a supercap and a couple of bpw34
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2023-09-11T20:35:00 < PaulFertser> I was about to suggest Bouffalo BL-706 as used in Pinecil v2 but then I remembered the device is not low power at all, it's up to 140 W :)
2023-09-11T20:35:38 < PaulFertser> (of course it doesn't tell anything about the MCU itself, just a curious train of thought)
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2023-09-11T20:41:13 < mawk> I'm immortal Mangy_Dog 
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2023-09-11T20:43:26 < mawk> I have a few dead friends though 
2023-09-11T20:43:35 < mawk> mostly from overdose
2023-09-11T20:43:43 < mawk> a couple of suicide 
2023-09-11T20:52:29 < qyx> PaulFertser: I have that one and I was not even able to get the sdk working and compile an example
2023-09-11T20:53:19 < PaulFertser> qyx: yes, IronOS has the right hacks to make it build and run.
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2023-09-11T21:04:45 < Steffanx> have some pretty random musics nomorekaki : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3AHqcinzZ4
2023-09-11T21:05:46 < nomorekaki> yes
2023-09-11T21:07:49 < nomorekaki> propper
2023-09-11T21:11:23 < nomorekaki> where is lurencer
2023-09-11T21:11:39 < nomorekaki> Birmingham city has declared itself bankrupt
2023-09-11T21:12:33 < nomorekaki> whatever it means
2023-09-11T21:16:39 < Steffanx> nomorekaki cares abouit sportsball?
2023-09-11T21:17:00 < Steffanx> oh not the sportsball club
2023-09-11T21:17:03 < nomorekaki> I dont know what you talking about
2023-09-11T21:18:25 < BrainDamage> well, he said that chris chan got out of jail, so I suppose lolrenceb has more things to do now than just trolling the internet on the allotted free time
2023-09-11T21:18:34 < Steffanx> i assumed it was a soccer club nomorekaki 
2023-09-11T21:18:43 < Steffanx> not the actual city of birmingham
2023-09-11T21:18:58 < nomorekaki> actual city
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2023-09-11T21:54:12 < qyx> PaulFertser: so I have to turn my device into a soldering iron first in order to make it work?
2023-09-11T22:07:06 < PaulFertser> qyx: :D it just makes sense to reuse part of their work
2023-09-11T22:07:15 < PaulFertser> Because the SDK is too shitty without fixes
2023-09-11T22:36:46 < qyx> ventYl: ^ you were about to try something with bl602
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2023-09-11T23:30:10 < ventYl> qyx: yeah, but I got distracted by writing tests and creating linux port
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2023-09-12T00:34:15 < qyx> I am sad there is apparently no de-facto standard for waterproof dc power connectors
2023-09-12T00:35:03 < qyx> apparently nobody uses dc
2023-09-12T00:35:08 < qyx> fuk tesla
2023-09-12T00:44:42 < qyx> the most common things on google are "gx16 aviation connector" and weipu's
2023-09-12T00:44:56 < qyx> those classics, 13 and 21 mm
2023-09-12T00:46:53 < qyx> but google also shows another trend emerging with dual-material molding
2023-09-12T00:50:24 < qyx> mainyl for outdoor lighting, eg. Tekox WP68, Hylec TeePlug, "knightsbridge" connectors
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2023-09-12T00:50:58 < qyx> apparently those Hylec connectors are an exact copy of Techno's THB series, which is another one
2023-09-12T00:51:12 < qyx> https://www.hylec-apl.com/Weatherproof-Waterproof-Connectors-Range/Micro-TeePlug-and-Sockets/THB_381_A2B.html
2023-09-12T00:52:00 < qyx> also unbranded ones like https://www.fruugo.es/set-of-4-ip68-waterproof-electrical-connector-3-pin-waterproof-connector-for-5-12-mm-diameter-cable/p-153861854-325570714?language=en
2023-09-12T00:53:17 < qyx> these too https://www.aagstucchi.it/en/products/category/417/
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2023-09-12T03:37:49 < mawk> what was my matrix from the other day already?
2023-09-12T03:38:29 < mawk> ah found it
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2023-09-12T14:17:04 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2023-09-12T14:17:12 < Mangy_Dog> platform io on vscode has got a bit better since i last tried it
2023-09-12T14:17:15 < Mangy_Dog> seems more.... 
2023-09-12T14:17:18 < Mangy_Dog> simple to get working
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2023-09-12T16:14:20 < qyx> maybe Jan- could try again
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2023-09-12T16:43:48 < Steffanx> Jan-. Good old time 
2023-09-12T16:43:49 < Steffanx> S
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2023-09-12T19:20:02 < josuah> Mangy_Dog: sometimes, all it take is a bit of water under the bridge (and million of tiny hands to report and fix the issues one by one ^_^')
2023-09-12T19:20:13 < josuah> or something like that... I'm not good at riddles
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2023-09-12T20:09:48 < jpa-> meh, why my WS2812Bs do not play nice
2023-09-12T20:13:55 < qyx> I know that feeling
2023-09-12T20:25:36 < jpa-> hmm, seems to be some mechanical problem with one of the leds; the rest of the strip flickers, and when i press on one of the LEDs it starts to work
2023-09-12T20:25:49 < jpa-> either bad soldering or broken bondwire
2023-09-12T20:25:58 < jpa-> too bad i've already encased it in epoxy..
2023-09-12T20:28:29 < mawk> is it bad to make take right angles to coax
2023-09-12T20:28:41 < mawk> it's extra thick 7mm cable the soul should be pretty solid
2023-09-12T20:29:28 < qyx> jpa-: may be a timing issue as well, a bit of fringing capacitance fixes it
2023-09-12T20:34:35 < Mangy_Dog> cant dremel out the epoxy?
2023-09-12T20:38:16 < jpa-> qyx: that was my first thought, but i already spent a while messing with timing & pull-up resistors & small capacitors
2023-09-12T20:38:36 < jpa-> now scraped off the epoxy and resoldered the one led and it works \o/
2023-09-12T20:38:43 < jpa-> i blame jlcpcb assembly
2023-09-12T20:39:01 < jpa-> mawk: you should obey the manufacturer specified bending radius
2023-09-12T20:39:18 < mawk> I don't know the manufacturer 
2023-09-12T20:39:28 < mawk> I got the cable for free
2023-09-12T20:39:34 < jpa-> does it say anything?
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2023-09-12T20:39:55 < jpa-> 5x diameter would be typical rule-of-thumb
2023-09-12T20:40:38 < jpa-> (even though thumbs don't usually obey that rule)
2023-09-12T20:40:57 < mawk> CATV - 2021 - 21137 - TFC - CU / TC - SERIES 09 - 1518 M CPR / CE EuroClassification Eca
2023-09-12T20:41:07 < mawk> ah right so 3.5cm max then
2023-09-12T20:41:26 < mawk> so I guess I need to find right angle coax couplers if I want to make it pretty 
2023-09-12T20:41:29 < mawk> I hope it exists
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2023-09-12T20:54:08 < Steffanx> Dont make it look pretty
2023-09-12T20:54:38 < Steffanx> and dont go around corners when its not necessary, just drill some holes
2023-09-12T20:56:52 < mawk> is it wise to place the filter before the amp?
2023-09-12T20:57:05 < mawk> now the filter is after the amp (and after 15m of cable)
2023-09-12T20:57:28 < mawk> but if I do that I can't get TV anymore 
2023-09-12T20:57:33 < mawk> but anyway nobody cares about TV 
2023-09-12T20:57:56 < Steffanx> Use ziggogo.tv
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2023-09-12T22:00:30 < nomorekaki> https://eleshop.eu/ts101-soldering-iron.html usbc soldering iron now with some actual power
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2023-09-12T22:01:20 < nomorekaki> if you wished they made ts80 but with power of ts100
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--- Day changed ke syys 13 2023
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2023-09-13T01:23:51 < Laurenceb_> supp
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2023-09-13T01:47:03 < qyx> you are a soup
2023-09-13T01:50:34 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1701729180570791948
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2023-09-13T01:55:12 < Laurenceb_> wtf is this shit
2023-09-13T01:56:03 < Laurenceb_> hmf muh shit isnt working
2023-09-13T01:56:09 < Laurenceb_> I'll blame tarduino
2023-09-13T02:00:34 < Mangy_Dog> :o
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2023-09-13T02:16:17 < Laurenceb_> I used tarduino to set an interrupt on rx pin falling edges, then store a timestamp using millis
2023-09-13T02:16:21 < Laurenceb_> should work right?
2023-09-13T02:16:49 < Laurenceb_>   attachInterrupt(digitalPinToInterrupt(PROFI_RX),profi_rx_fall_irq, FALLING);
2023-09-13T02:17:00 < Laurenceb_> #define PROFI_RX PB11
2023-09-13T02:17:09 < Laurenceb_> isr is being called, but something is wrong
2023-09-13T02:20:51 < Laurenceb_> void profi_rx_fall_irq(void) {//runs on every falling edge detected on the rx line - stm32duino usart code does not allow callbacks to be attached to usart irqs
2023-09-13T02:20:52 < Laurenceb_>   if(profi_p)
2023-09-13T02:20:52 < Laurenceb_>     profi_p->last_rx=millis();
2023-09-13T02:20:53 < Laurenceb_> }
2023-09-13T02:21:02 < Laurenceb_> last_rx is a volatile uint32_t
2023-09-13T02:22:54 < Laurenceb_> its like I'm missing events or something isnt volatile that should be...
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2023-09-13T12:48:43 < rob_w> hi guys ... need some clarification here . i run a 1khz Timer to kick adc1 which does 8 channels, each set to ADC_SAMPLETIME_64CYCLES_5... so what do i actually recieve at the 1khz timer rate ?
2023-09-13T12:50:55 < qyx> 125 Hz
2023-09-13T12:51:19 < qyx> most probably unless the ADC clock is too low to not even finish sampling in time
2023-09-13T12:51:50 < qyx> but it can't be that low in order to work
2023-09-13T12:52:24 < qyx> oh sorry, wrong kind of answer, but you get it
2023-09-13T12:52:55 < qyx> hm
2023-09-13T12:54:28 < qyx> that's why one should read the question twice before writing anything
2023-09-13T12:54:56 < rob_w> how do i get this number 125hz ?
2023-09-13T12:55:23 < qyx> no it is wrong :)
2023-09-13T12:55:47 < qyx> if your sequence contains 8 channels and you are trigegring it with a timer, the whole sequence should run at 1 kHz
2023-09-13T12:56:53 < rob_w> what the ADC_SAMPLETIME_64CYCLES_5 then do in my sequence ?
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2023-09-13T12:58:21 < qyx> when a channel converts, it samples for 64.5 cycles and then converts for 12.5 cycles (if set to 12 bit)
2023-09-13T12:58:52 < qyx> so the whole sequence should take 77 cycles * 8
2023-09-13T12:58:54 < rob_w> its 16bit 
2023-09-13T12:59:10 < rob_w> and cyclces here is adc clock oder cpu clock ?
2023-09-13T12:59:17 < qyx> which family?
2023-09-13T12:59:23 < rob_w> stm32h7
2023-09-13T12:59:42 < qyx> then most probably 16.5 cycles, RM has a "adc timing" figure in the ADC section
2023-09-13T12:59:50 < qyx> I was looking at G4's RM
2023-09-13T12:59:55 < rob_w> ok thx
2023-09-13T13:00:15 < qyx> it is in ADC clocks
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2023-09-13T15:35:11 < karlp> qyx: if you have persistence enabled, you get queued messages delivered over broker restarts, but yeah, if you meant: https://github.com/eclipse/mosquitto/issues/2634 that was annoying as hell.
2023-09-13T15:35:16 < karlp> it's finally fixed 
2023-09-13T15:35:42 < karlp> 2.0.15 was out for like well over a year though, we had a few people roll back to 2.0.14 for their deployments.
2023-09-13T15:37:33 < qyx> karlp: this one is mine https://github.com/eclipse/mosquitto/issues/1334
2023-09-13T15:38:43 < qyx> 2.0.15 to 1.5.7
2023-09-13T15:44:55 < karlp> you mean bridging between 2.0.15 to a 1.5.7 ?
2023-09-13T15:45:47 < qyx> yes
2023-09-13T15:46:21 < qyx> I didn't investigate at the source code level though
2023-09-13T15:46:45 < karlp> hrm, we never ran into that one.  
2023-09-13T15:47:06 < Laurenceb_> supp
2023-09-13T15:47:07 < qyx> I added all defaults to the configuration yesterday, even an explicit start_type automatic
2023-09-13T15:47:19 < karlp> cmon, that's cargo cult to the extreme :)
2023-09-13T15:53:51 < Laurenceb_> f103 should be capable of triggering exti off a usart rx pin whilst the usart is running right?
2023-09-13T16:01:51 < Laurenceb_> muh codez https://pastebin.com/P8EDPxme
2023-09-13T16:02:10 < Laurenceb_> line 500 + is hardware stuff
2023-09-13T16:02:49 < Laurenceb_> the problem is that line 506 doesnt seem to update properly - as if last_rx is not volatile
2023-09-13T16:03:38 < Laurenceb_> https://pastebin.com/juaW7Yr3
2023-09-13T16:04:13 < Laurenceb_> line 19 its volatile in the struct definition, is that enough?
2023-09-13T16:14:58 < Laurenceb_> the symptom is line 58 triggering (timeout), when logic analyser says data timing is fine
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2023-09-13T18:07:48 < zyp> jpa-, in your DTC implementation, how do you handle hysteresis? do you have any min/max on/off times? do you have any sanity checks that keeps it from blowing up anything?
2023-09-13T18:10:20 < jpa-> i didn't have any, because it was software-only and loop time limited the max switching frequency to around 100kHz which was fine for the FETs
2023-09-13T18:10:56 < jpa-> i used a FET driver that had maximum current monitoring (DRVxxxx something) and i did trip it a few times during development
2023-09-13T18:11:56 < zyp> I'm not too worried about development, since I can just current limit the supply
2023-09-13T18:12:26 < qyx> do you believe your new smps lab supply
2023-09-13T18:12:50 < jpa-> yeah, current limiting supply is fine until you want to start testing maximum torque
2023-09-13T18:13:11 < jpa-> or rather, max power.. max torque actually doesn't take much input current if speed is low
2023-09-13T18:14:20 < zyp> I'd need a setup with a load to be able to do that
2023-09-13T18:15:02 < zyp> which I could do just by running two against each other, and the regenerated power would then still mean not a whole lot of input power required
2023-09-13T18:16:26 < jpa-> IIRC i did most tests with max acceleration, because it also nicely tests the orientation tracking & PID loops
2023-09-13T18:16:54 < jpa-> so just known inertia and see how fast it speeds up, and count the pieces that flew to your face
2023-09-13T18:17:20 < zyp> I've been thinking about whether I should do the current comparisons in a,b,c space or alpha,beta space
2023-09-13T18:20:23 < zyp> I figure since that's a linear matrix transformation, it doesn't matter which subtraction you do, (x - y) @ M is the same as x @ M - y @ M
2023-09-13T18:20:39 < zyp> but it matters a bit if I want to do hysteresis
2023-09-13T18:21:10 < jpa-> yeah, switching times and hysteresis would make more sense in abc
2023-09-13T18:21:29 < zyp> in alpha,beta space I'd have six radial sectors and maybe a deadband around 0,0
2023-09-13T18:21:43 < zyp> that gets harder to do in a,b,c
2023-09-13T18:22:00 < jpa-> hmm, true, that way would work also
2023-09-13T18:22:13 < jpa-> i was thinking simple max current ripple for each phase separately
2023-09-13T18:22:44 < jpa-> but that could cause periodic change in sound as the effect of hysteresis changes a bit depending on rotor orientation
2023-09-13T18:22:55 < zyp> considering each phase separately seems kinda wrong, given that they always sum to zero
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2023-09-13T18:30:53 < zyp> cost wise, I also figure it's about equal whether I do target_dq @ clarke - measured_abc or target_dq - measured_abc @ inverse_clarke
2023-09-13T18:31:47 < zyp> I mean, target_alpha_beta, which is the rotated target_dq
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2023-09-13T20:47:11 < mawk> zyp if you have N things that sum to zero you're really considering separately N-1 of them and the last one is linked 
2023-09-13T20:47:33 < mawk> an equation of the form ax+bx+cz+… = 0 always defines a hyperplane of dimension n-1
2023-09-13T20:47:54 < mawk> so considering N-1 of the phases separately is perfectly allowed
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2023-09-13T20:55:30 < Steffanx> Deja vu 😜
2023-09-13T20:58:04 < mawk> lol
2023-09-13T20:58:06 < mawk> it's déjà 
2023-09-13T20:58:08 < mawk> the accents are very important 
2023-09-13T20:58:10 < mawk> you don't pronounce them, you don't hear them, but they're pretty so you have to use them
2023-09-13T20:59:20 < jpa-> dèjá—vu
2023-09-13T21:00:39 < qyx> guľôčka v jamôčke?
2023-09-13T21:04:35 < Steffanx> I'm too lazy to type that on my télèphøñē mask
2023-09-13T21:07:53 < Steffanx> Mawk*
2023-09-13T21:15:15 < zyp> mawk, the point is I've got three outputs, one for each halfbridge
2023-09-13T21:15:47 < zyp> in abc space, I could do a bang-bang controller on each individual phase directly
2023-09-13T21:16:14 < zyp> which would be equivalent to a six sector control scheme in alpha,beta space
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2023-09-13T21:40:55 < mawk> awful jpa- 
2023-09-13T21:41:22 < mawk> it's téléphone Steffanx very simple
2023-09-13T21:41:32 < mawk> most accents are acute in french
2023-09-13T21:41:54 < mawk> the è is pronounce différently from é, higher pitch
2023-09-13T21:42:09 < mawk> à a ä are all pronounced the same because fuck people trying to learn french
2023-09-13T21:42:11 < Steffanx> But I'm not french
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2023-09-13T21:42:20 < mawk> yes you are
2023-09-13T21:42:28 < mawk> did you forget Napoléon?
2023-09-13T21:45:56 < BrainDamage> you know, people hate english due to it being forced on them, but I'm somehow confident they'd hate french more if it the position were reversed
2023-09-13T21:47:00 < mawk> lol
2023-09-13T21:47:34 < mawk> we also have ë in a very small amount of words
2023-09-13T21:47:37 < mawk> and it's always useless 
2023-09-13T21:47:49 < mawk> well, it doesn't modify the pronunciation but it conveys the gender of the word 
2023-09-13T21:48:00 < ventYl> well, english, at least, is a very primitive language
2023-09-13T21:48:16 < mawk> aigu = acute (masculine), aiguë = acute (feminine)
2023-09-13T21:48:31 < mawk> ciguë = what Plato took to die
2023-09-13T21:48:54 < mawk> it's also in many proper names, like Noël (Christmas), Naël, etc
2023-09-13T21:49:03 < mawk> in which case it has the same function as the german umlaut
2023-09-13T21:49:29 < mawk> separating the different vowels
2023-09-13T21:49:47 < BrainDamage> english grammar is pretty ok, the lexicon sucks due to it being bastardized left and right, french is the opposite
2023-09-13T21:49:53 < mawk> but they "simplified" french a few years ago to remove these
2023-09-13T21:49:56 < mawk> which is extremely sad
2023-09-13T21:50:04 < BrainDamage> consistent lexicon, but it has tons of awkward grammatic rules
2023-09-13T21:50:07 < mawk> they say "it's too hard to learn for immigrants waah waah"
2023-09-13T21:50:26 < mawk> so I will write aiguë until the year I die
2023-09-13T21:52:31 < mawk> what do you mean awkward BrainDamage 
2023-09-13T21:52:36 < mawk> it all makes perfect intuitive sense
2023-09-13T21:52:54 < BrainDamage> count your verbal times
2023-09-13T21:53:50 < mawk> nobody uses them anymore it's all been dumbed down immensely 
2023-09-13T21:54:09 < mawk> the average french person has strictly no idea about imparfait du subjonctif or passé simple
2023-09-13T21:54:17 < mawk> it goes in one ear and out the other at school 
2023-09-13T21:54:49 < mawk> but it's all clearly specified, verbs are arranged in 3 groups with each consistent rules
2023-09-13T21:54:54 < mawk> except for a very small amount of exceptions 
2023-09-13T21:55:10 < BrainDamage> you could organize a new crusade against your impure countrymen
2023-09-13T21:55:11 < BrainDamage> there's a few historical precedents too
2023-09-13T21:55:17 < mawk> lol
2023-09-13T21:57:03 < mawk> and the groups aren't even random, it's just determined by the ending of the infinitive: -er, -ir
2023-09-13T21:57:28 < mawk> -er is first group (except the verb to go), -ir is the second group (if the present participle ends in -issant), and 3rd group is all the rest
2023-09-13T21:57:30 < mawk> very easy
2023-09-13T21:57:52 < mawk> to go (aller) goes in the 3rd
2023-09-13T21:58:05 < BrainDamage> italian has almost the same grammatical rules, I don't need an explanation, I am unfortunately very familiar
2023-09-13T21:58:34 < BrainDamage> it's still largely unnecessary
2023-09-13T21:59:59 < mawk> some of our words have weird spellings like ph for f and so on, because of a wave of "savantization" after the middle age where scholars complifixied words on purpose because they just rediscovered ancient greek
2023-09-13T22:00:05 < mawk> and now we're stuck with it
2023-09-13T22:09:38 < sync_> > unfortunately very familiar
2023-09-13T22:11:28 < mawk> most of the ph and th words come from that 
2023-09-13T22:11:40 < mawk> φ and θ
2023-09-13T22:11:52 < mawk> and words with Ks as well, κ
2023-09-13T22:25:56 < mawk> I have a beautiful integral, ∫_0^∞ dx/(X⁴+aX²+b²)
2023-09-13T22:25:58 < mawk> x not X sorry
2023-09-13T22:27:06 < Steffanx> yes it's lovely
2023-09-13T22:27:36 < mawk> in general the primitive of P(x)/Q(x) with P, Q polynomials is a mix of ln(ax+b), ln(a'x²+b'x+c') and arctan(a''x)
2023-09-13T22:27:44 < mawk> but here something magical happens
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2023-09-13T22:36:58 < nomorekaki> computer specs
2023-09-13T22:37:42 < nomorekaki> how much ram?
2023-09-13T22:38:14 < Steffanx> Max supported by motherboard
2023-09-13T22:38:56 < Steffanx> So > 64 GB :)
2023-09-13T22:40:02 < qyx> 64 GB for facebook?
2023-09-13T22:41:27 < nomorekaki> anyone still rolling with 8GB?
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2023-09-13T23:05:36 < Steffanx> What CPU nomorekaki?
2023-09-13T23:05:50 < nomorekaki> what cpu you have?
2023-09-13T23:05:59 < nomorekaki> are you pass 8cores?
2023-09-13T23:11:26 < mawk> I have 64GiB and 8 cores on one laptop 
2023-09-13T23:11:34 < mawk> and 32GiB and 16 cores on another one
2023-09-13T23:11:44 < mawk> the other one has soldered RAM so I can't upgrade it
2023-09-13T23:15:23 < nomorekaki> btw https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-zenbleed-fix-tested
2023-09-13T23:16:13 < nomorekaki> amd had it's speculative excecution moment
2023-09-13T23:16:45 < nomorekaki> my desktop has one of those processors ofc
2023-09-13T23:30:28 < nomorekaki> I'm just autisming if I should buy i7 motherboard to my XPS 13 7390
2023-09-13T23:30:44 < nomorekaki> with 10710u
2023-09-13T23:30:53 < nomorekaki> currently 10210u
2023-09-13T23:31:32 < nomorekaki> processor is almost unrelevant
2023-09-13T23:31:51 < nomorekaki> but thing has 16GB integrated ram compared to 8GB this has
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--- Day changed to syys 14 2023
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2023-09-14T00:18:16 < ventYl> nomorekaki: I have 8gb in my diagnostics laptop
2023-09-14T00:18:18 < ventYl> IIRC
2023-09-14T00:18:43 < nomorekaki> winxp?
2023-09-14T00:19:34 < ventYl> linux with a bunch of windows virtual machines
2023-09-14T00:24:49 < nomorekaki> *nods*
2023-09-14T00:24:59 < nomorekaki> how about your main comfusers?
2023-09-14T00:30:50 < Laurenceb_> lunix
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2023-09-14T00:46:34 < Laurenceb_> reee I hate profibus
2023-09-14T00:46:47 < Laurenceb_> but tarduino is probably to blame for teh issues
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2023-09-14T00:54:33 < ventYl> nomorekaki: 32gb ram, but I doubt I ever actually used all of it
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2023-09-14T01:07:09 < Mangy_Dog> im on 32 and yeah ive used it up
2023-09-14T01:07:15 < Mangy_Dog> sometimes thought about going 64
2023-09-14T01:13:49 < qyx> 16G without swap, no OOM ever
2023-09-14T01:14:59 < ventYl> even full rebuild of Maya didn't each up much more than 16GB
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2023-09-14T14:26:11 < catphish> JLC are getting stupidly fact, i placed a PCB+assembly order last thursday and it's being delivered today
2023-09-14T14:26:20 < catphish> *fast
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2023-09-14T14:43:40 < Mangy_Dog> yeah theyre massively expanding
2023-09-14T14:48:08 < ventYl> I have probably come across the ugliest piece of embedded software
2023-09-14T14:51:42 < Mangy_Dog> is it mine?
2023-09-14T14:52:42 < ventYl> nope
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2023-09-14T16:35:11 < zyp> ventYl, that's what I also thought earlier
2023-09-14T16:37:01 < zyp> I'm doing a feature addition in an old avr8 project that's a decade or two old, originally developed elsewhere
2023-09-14T16:37:12 < zyp> it's a mess and I don't got much in the way of documentation
2023-09-14T16:38:16 < zyp> the people who originally wrote this were apparently too cool to use strcpy or memcpy or anything, so there's probably thousands of lines doing this sort of stuff: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/9pc7I
2023-09-14T16:40:01 < zyp> too cool to use itoa() as well: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/YwUME
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2023-09-14T17:01:56 < PaulFertser> They needed functions for 0xFF-terminated strings and avrlibc doesn't offer that.
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2023-09-14T17:03:36 < PaulFertser> I've noticed often times EEs are tasked with writing firmware for the boards they develop, and so they usually manage but the results are surprising like that.
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2023-09-14T17:14:53 < specing> They should've used Ada, hehe
2023-09-14T17:21:41 < zyp> PaulFertser, they could have written one then, instead of writing this shit out a ton of times over
2023-09-14T17:26:12 < specing> their time/money budget probably didn't include refactoring
2023-09-14T17:31:09 < zyp> who knows
2023-09-14T17:32:17 < zyp> made it a bit annoying to figure out where the code generating some specific message was, since I couldn't just grep for a few characters of the message string
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2023-09-14T17:59:07 < jadew> zyp, lol
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2023-09-14T21:52:03 < jbo> I'm looking for a BLDC driver chip that can do some position control. any recommendations? 
2023-09-14T22:02:21 < nomorekaki> stm32
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2023-09-14T22:03:44 < nomorekaki> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/ecosystems/stm32-motor-control-ecosystem.html
2023-09-14T22:05:06 < nomorekaki> aparently you can even cube it
2023-09-14T22:05:38 < nomorekaki> "Motor Control Workbench (available in the X-CUBE-MCSDK) is linked with STM32CubeMX."
2023-09-14T22:06:51 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA here is also one open source project
2023-09-14T22:07:28 < nomorekaki> 99%certainty it has stm32
2023-09-14T22:09:29 < nomorekaki> but esp32 :o
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2023-09-14T22:25:32 < qyx> zyp: lold
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2023-09-14T22:32:06 < nomorekaki> I wonder if hdds have dedicated bldc controllers
2023-09-14T22:33:57 < specing> they must
2023-09-14T22:34:25 < specing> or maybe integrated into main processor
2023-09-14T22:35:54 < nomorekaki> yeah
2023-09-14T22:36:05 < nomorekaki> asic + 3 bridge chip
2023-09-14T22:36:17 < nomorekaki> that would be my guess
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2023-09-14T23:04:38 < zyp> jbo, stspin32g4
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2023-09-14T23:33:32 < nomorekaki> softbank listed arm back to nasdaq
2023-09-14T23:33:40 < nomorekaki> what d0es this mean
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--- Day changed pe syys 15 2023
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2023-09-15T00:12:30 < mawk> that it's not being sold anymore nomorekaki 
2023-09-15T00:12:46 < mawk> unless they want to go through the charade of buying back the stock again 
2023-09-15T00:13:05 < nomorekaki> it's not being sold to nvidia
2023-09-15T00:13:34 < mawk> unless they kept a majority of stocks and intend to sell them to another buyer matbe
2023-09-15T00:13:37 < mawk> maybe*
2023-09-15T00:13:54 < mawk> but that's less money for them
2023-09-15T00:13:56 < mawk> so probably not
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2023-09-15T00:26:18 < zyp> jpa-, hmm, the clarke transform simplifies nicely when you've only got two current measurements
2023-09-15T00:27:18 < zyp> alpha, beta = [a, sqrt(3)/3 * (a + 2b)]
2023-09-15T00:27:47 < zyp> or alternatively [a, -sqrt(3)/3 * (a + 2c)]
2023-09-15T00:28:37 < zyp> that's a single multiplication plus a shift and an addition
2023-09-15T00:44:14 < zyp> sector compare should be fairly cheap too, need to check something like abs(2 * alpha) > abs(beta), sign(alpha), sign(beta)
2023-09-15T00:47:07 < zyp> on the other hand, doing the compares per phase means I can fold the inverse clarke transform into the sin/cos LUT
2023-09-15T00:47:27 < zyp> or, hmm
2023-09-15T00:49:22 < zyp> still need to multiply the setpoint dq values with the values from the sin/cos LUT, and folding it in means I need to do six multiplies rather than the usual four
2023-09-15T00:49:28 < zyp> so it's not any cheaper
2023-09-15T00:50:02 < zyp> then again, it's not like I'm short of processing power
2023-09-15T00:53:03 < zyp> I guess should have a new ADC reading roughly every 300 cycles or so, divide that by 6 channels interleaved and I've still got 50 cycles available per channel
2023-09-15T00:54:08 < zyp> assuming ADC at 250ksps and FPGA at 75MHz
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2023-09-15T00:55:06  * Laurenceb_ is working on profibus stuff...
2023-09-15T00:55:26 < Laurenceb_> I've got muh profibus hardware to connect to stm32 board, but something is weird
2023-09-15T00:55:44 < zyp> 50 cycles is on the order of «I wouldn't attempt that on a general purpose cpu», but a little state machine around a multiplier shouldn't have any issue
2023-09-15T00:55:44 < Laurenceb_> every 3 to 5 packets the device stops replying for a few hundred milliseconds
2023-09-15T00:56:05 < Laurenceb_> I'm trying to work out what could cause this
2023-09-15T00:56:35 < Laurenceb_> its not anything specific about the data - the "lockup" will happen anywhere in the packet sequence
2023-09-15T00:56:58 < Laurenceb_> trying with siemens kit and the data looks the same, but the lockup doesnt happen
2023-09-15T00:57:16 < zyp> if it's not data, it's probably timing
2023-09-15T00:57:20 < Laurenceb_> the device has autobaud, maybe it could be malfunctioning due to small usart error?
2023-09-15T00:58:02 < Laurenceb_> yeah I suspect some sort of timing issue - its not random, not a 1 in 4 chance of failing to respond, its always after 3 to 5 (mean 4) packets exchanged ok
2023-09-15T00:58:56 < Laurenceb_> there is a modified sequence number in some of the packet that I have "hacked", and may be incorrect, but sometimes the packets with no sequence number are the ones that cause a dropout
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2023-09-15T01:04:17 < ventYl> zyp: this thing is overoptimized. it tries to do LTO without using -flto, so 3/4 of the source are in "header" files
2023-09-15T01:04:47 < ventYl> zyp: it seems that part of the bootloader code is shared with the application and MPU use is hacked in
2023-09-15T01:05:07 < ventYl> I wasn't able to add single line without ending in something that looks like HardFault
2023-09-15T01:05:32 < ventYl> unfortunately I don't know what happens in there, because GDB is hopelessly unable to set any breakpoint that would ever hit
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2023-09-15T01:09:49 < zyp> sounds more fun than avr code
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2023-09-15T09:06:05 < zyp> jpa-, I thought some more about it, and doing the comparisons in phase-space is archetecturally way simpler, can just pipe the LUT directly into a multiplier
2023-09-15T09:08:43 < zyp> since a combined inverse park+clarke is effectively abc = (d * lut[angle] + q * lut[angle + 90]), (d * lut[angle + 120] + q * lut[angle + 120 + 90]), (d * lut[angle + 240] + q * lut[angle + 240 + 90])
2023-09-15T09:09:36 < jpa-> seems reasonable
2023-09-15T09:10:19 < jpa-> and when you make your lut in binary radians, even the modulus/wraparound is trivial
2023-09-15T09:11:31 < zyp> yeah, bit annoying if the encoder count isn't a power of two though
2023-09-15T09:12:34 < jpa-> true, may make more sense to use encoder units directly and just do the subtraction for wraparound
2023-09-15T09:12:58 < zyp> yeah, that's probably what I'll do
2023-09-15T09:15:40 < zyp> I guess for a ~zero current deadband, doing abs(a) < x && abs(b) < x && abs(c) < x is reasonable
2023-09-15T09:16:50 < zyp> intuitively that should form a hexagon region around 0,0 in alpha,beta space
2023-09-15T09:17:32 < jpa-> do you mean    abs(a - target_a)  or actually zero current?
2023-09-15T09:17:52 < zyp> the former, was thinking after the subtraction
2023-09-15T09:19:14 < jpa-> you may also want to consider whether to use "fast decay" or "slow decay" mode for the per-phase control; i.e. if a is larger than target_a, whether to apply a short or opposite voltage
2023-09-15T09:22:03 < jpa-> though i guess that will depend on the other phases also.. the 7-point hexagon is probably the best way to think about it :)
2023-09-15T09:22:06 < zyp> you mean, if the voltage shot past the target just a little, give it a shorter pulse rather than a full interval to keep it from decaying too fast?
2023-09-15T09:22:45 < zyp> hmm, I'm not sure I get it
2023-09-15T09:24:02 < jpa-> i mean, if you have e.g.    target = [2, -1, -1]   and  actual = [2.2, -1.1, -1.1]     whether to apply output state [0, 1, 1]   or   [0, 0, 0]    because both will move towards target
2023-09-15T09:24:27 < jpa-> the first one by fast decay / opposite voltage, the second one by dissipation in resistances
2023-09-15T09:24:52 < zyp> yeah, that's what the deadband region would do
2023-09-15T09:25:33 < jpa-> deadband will also do the same for      actual = [1.8, -0.9, -0.9]    even though in that case [0,0,0] will move away from target
2023-09-15T09:25:50 < jpa-> so i'm not sure if it makes sense to have it symmetric
2023-09-15T09:26:27 < zyp> oh, fair point
2023-09-15T09:26:45 < zyp> so I should probably compare actual - target, not abs(actual - target)
2023-09-15T09:27:35 < jpa-> yeah.. with too large symmetric deadband, you might end up regulating around the deadband lower edge instead of the center of the deadband
2023-09-15T09:28:52 < jpa-> (too large = wider than    (supply_voltage - backemf_voltage) / motor_inductance * control_time_period    which is the current delta per cycle)
2023-09-15T09:29:15 < zyp> do you think it's worthwhile to keep track of whether I've got one or two transistors on and using that to decide whether to move to 000 or 111 for the deadband to minimize switching?
2023-09-15T09:32:15 < jpa-> i think it could make sense; DTC does generally have more switching than PWM so for optimizing efficiency it's good to try to reduce it
2023-09-15T09:35:04 < jpa-> i wonder if it could be treated as a state machine.. with transitions like     000  ---[if diff_a < hysteresis]--> 100
2023-09-15T09:35:42 < jpa-> would need    000 ---[if diff_a < hyst && diff_b < hyst]--> 110    to have higher priority
2023-09-15T09:37:36 < zyp> it'd make sense to get in the hysteresis, otherwise I think it'd be simpler to just make it a separate pipeline stage
2023-09-15T09:38:18 < zyp> i.e. have a module that checks desired state and current state, and if desired state is 000, rewrite that to 111 if current state is 110, 101 or 011
2023-09-15T09:39:14 < jpa-> or 111 :)
2023-09-15T09:39:27 < zyp> indeed
2023-09-15T09:40:28 < zyp> I'm wondering what the fanuc servo amp will think about this, there's some logic in there as well and I'm not sure exactly what it's doing
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2023-09-15T09:43:16 < zyp> e.g. I'm not sure exactly what was going on here, I was driving it with a fixed pwm duty/angle: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/7GyWv.jpg
2023-09-15T09:43:41 < zyp> it started looking more reasonable once I turned duty up higher
2023-09-15T09:44:30 < zyp> pwm freq was 8kHz, corresponding to the small spikes
2023-09-15T09:47:57 < jpa-> what is the role of the servo amp in this?
2023-09-15T09:48:17 < zyp> that's where the power electronics are
2023-09-15T09:48:51 < jpa-> so takes in digital signal and has 3x half bridge?
2023-09-15T09:49:15 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XWVBY.jpg <- the upper left side thing is a six channel servo amp
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2023-09-15T09:50:22 < zyp> one of those huge ribbon cables carries 6x4 signals for enable and three pwm for each channel
2023-09-15T09:51:44 < zyp> conceptually it seems pretty close to a triple halfbridge with enable, but it seems that it's smarter than I like
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2023-09-15T10:52:10 < Laurenceb_> https://s202.erome.com/768/Wo4fqHz3/X9wpiCvM.jpeg
2023-09-15T10:52:14 < Laurenceb_> nsfw
2023-09-15T10:52:48 < Laurenceb_> >it is time for us to highlight and confront those attitudes
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2023-09-15T12:16:51 < jadew> That's a very old picture. I remember the one where she's naked.
2023-09-15T12:45:43 < qyx> experiencing 2023, trying meson
2023-09-15T12:46:03 < qyx> so far pip3 install meson succeeded which kinda surprised me
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2023-09-15T12:55:55 < zyp> jpa-, a 1000 or 1024 entry LUT will have up to 0.2% error on the 120/210/240/330 degree lookups if I just round the angle to the nearest entry in the table, is it worth making the table 3x as large so I can make them all exact?
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2023-09-15T13:22:47 < mawk> depending on what you need zyp 
2023-09-15T13:23:01 < mawk> you can also use a table and then a few extra rounds of CORDIC for increased precision 
2023-09-15T13:23:10 < mawk> depending on how much CPU time you have
2023-09-15T13:23:54 < mawk> why do you have all angles to 360° though?
2023-09-15T13:24:02 < mawk> up to 90° is enough 
2023-09-15T13:24:04 < mawk> or even 45°
2023-09-15T13:24:12 < mawk> then you can have way more precision 
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2023-09-15T13:38:50 < qyx> zyp: you were the one to try meson? I cannot comprehend the process of adding *.c sources
2023-09-15T13:38:56 < qyx> it looks like it should find all
2023-09-15T13:39:12 < qyx> but it does so only if I add them explicitly which I refuse to
2023-09-15T13:39:39 < qyx> th emeson.build is already longre than a corresponding Makefile
2023-09-15T13:41:22 < jpa-> zyp: less than 1% error is not noticeable at all, and i'd say even 5% is fine
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2023-09-15T14:10:35 < zyp> qyx, meson doesn't do wildcard matches
2023-09-15T14:10:37 < zyp> IIRC
2023-09-15T14:11:06 < zyp> https://mesonbuild.com/FAQ.html#why-cant-i-specify-target-files-with-a-wildcard
2023-09-15T14:48:11 < qyx> interesting, this was not in the googel results
2023-09-15T14:54:17 < qyx> also I though meson's language is python, but no
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2023-09-15T17:37:19 < karlp> you're thinking of scons..
2023-09-15T17:58:41 < qyx> no
2023-09-15T18:05:45 < qyx> this is ridiculous, make package/libsodium/compile compiles a totally different package
2023-09-15T18:05:50 < qyx> what did I screw up
2023-09-15T18:06:04 < qyx> (using USE_SOURCE_DIR)
2023-09-15T18:07:33 < karlp> it will be building prereqs as well...
2023-09-15T18:07:52 < karlp> and, if my suspicions are worth anything, libsodium has many...
2023-09-15T18:36:08 < qyx> libsodium has none, it is its purpose to be simple
2023-09-15T18:36:35 < qyx> either many things changed or I became extrmely dumb
2023-09-15T18:41:57 < karlp> hrm, have you built anything at all in this buildroot yet?
2023-09-15T18:54:39 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2023-09-15T19:04:37 < qyx> this is the binary SDK, I added my own package which does not compile and now whatever I do, it always try to build it and always fails
2023-09-15T19:04:43 < qyx> even if I disable the package
2023-09-15T19:04:58 < qyx> I enable something totally unrelated (libsodium) and it tells me building of libsodium fails
2023-09-15T19:05:10 < qyx> but V=s says it is because of my *disabled* package
2023-09-15T19:05:18 < qyx> sodium builds okay
2023-09-15T19:08:14 < qyx> and ERROR: Unknown pack format for file drives me nuts
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2023-09-15T19:09:02 < qyx> of course it is unknown because the file has incomplete path
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2023-09-15T20:48:22 < karlp> did you run out of disk or something?
2023-09-15T20:48:27 < karlp> I neve rused the SDK much,
2023-09-15T20:48:46 < karlp> I always just used the buildroot, the SDK didn't seem like enough savings.
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2023-09-15T21:25:07 < qyx> oh noice
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2023-09-15T21:54:06 < qyx> karlp: https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-developer/packages#use_source_dir
2023-09-15T21:54:23 < qyx> thisis the catch exactly as theý are mentionig
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2023-09-15T23:09:25 < jpa-> meh.. STM32F405 DFU (with 8 MHz external crystal) only works when I have the enclosure open
2023-09-15T23:11:33 < zyp> what
2023-09-15T23:11:47 < zyp> why?
2023-09-15T23:12:39 < jpa-> dunno.. normal USB from my application works all the time
2023-09-15T23:12:56 < jpa-> giving it NRST pulse after powerup makes the bootloader also work
2023-09-15T23:13:12 < jpa-> so i think it is some weird powerrail rise time thing or something
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2023-09-15T23:13:50 < mawk> not capacitance?
2023-09-15T23:14:26 < zyp> could be, I was dealing with a fun issue like that last week
2023-09-15T23:15:15 < zyp> client has a device with two mcus, one with our stuff and one with another company's stuff
2023-09-15T23:16:21 < zyp> other company released a new firmware, and then a significant percentage of devices failed
2023-09-15T23:17:14 < zyp> but the failed devices worked fine when I hooked them up to the debugger and enabled SWO logging to figure out what was going on
2023-09-15T23:17:29 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stm32f405_powerup.png   my VDD has this funny pulse for some reason on boot, but on the other hand it is still under NRST at that point
2023-09-15T23:18:25 < zyp> it turned out that the new firmware for the other device somehow takes >500ms to configure the uart it uses for communication, and meanwhile its tx line is tristated
2023-09-15T23:19:00 < zyp> so it's semi-random what state the line capacitance leaves it at
2023-09-15T23:20:17 < zyp> we were waiting 300ms before initiating communication, and if the line was still low at that point, we'd detect it as a break frame, consider it a fatal error and reset the other mcu
2023-09-15T23:20:37 < zyp> so the failing devices got the other mcu stuck in a reset loop
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2023-09-15T23:23:00 < zyp> I ended up solving it by polling the line before initializing the uart and waiting until it reads high
2023-09-15T23:25:52 < jpa-> that VDD pulse is weird though.. kinda violates operating conditions though not abs max; VDD is made by XC6206 from +5V which rises cleanly
2023-09-15T23:29:08 < jpa-> based on the rise time, something has to be pushing at least 150 mA to the caps during that time.. can't really think of anything except the regulator doing it, i don't have 5V inputs with such currents available
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2023-09-15T23:35:05 < zyp> what's ch2?
2023-09-15T23:35:36 < zyp> are you violating any capacitance requirements or anything?
2023-09-15T23:37:42 < jpa-> not that i know of.. XC6206 datasheet recommends 1µF ceramic and says "The low ESR capacitors use that is more than 1.0μF as CL is possible"  whatever that means
2023-09-15T23:37:55 < jpa-> i have 20µF nominal, so maybe 10-15 µF actual
2023-09-15T23:38:09 < jpa-> ch2 there is NRST of the STM32
2023-09-15T23:38:57 < jpa-> based on the datasheet, XC6206 doesn't have particularly good transient response
2023-09-15T23:41:04 < qyx> don't be surprisd jpa-, today is a day of fails
2023-09-15T23:43:14 < jpa-> looks like it has 1mA minimum output current, but adding 1kohm between +3.3V and GND didn't make any difference
2023-09-15T23:44:40 < jpa-> adding 100 ohm load did shorten the pulse though
2023-09-15T23:44:45 < jpa-> i guess it's just a crappy regulator
2023-09-15T23:45:34 < jpa-> no difference for the DFU issue
--- Day changed la syys 16 2023
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2023-09-16T00:55:50 < karlp> qyx: heh, I'm pretty sure I wrote that section of the docs :)
2023-09-16T00:57:00 < karlp> I used to use that pacakge-version-override.mk and silly me, I wasn't reading commit logs, so I got a bit grumpy when it was just... not there next build.
2023-09-16T00:57:15 < karlp> "oh, you still used that thing? here's how you're meant to be using buildroot, that we never documented"
2023-09-16T00:58:05 < karlp> I settled on https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-developer/packages#config_src_tree_override most of the time I needed this in later days.
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2023-09-16T10:27:48 < qyx> ka2
2023-09-16T10:28:24 < qyx> karlp: I should have been reading those comments better, it would save me some time
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2023-09-16T12:39:27 < PaulFertser> I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEM2bG8mOQ (TLDR: a modern UPS from APC has aluminum transformer windings attached to copper wires by "soldering")
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2023-09-16T12:52:32 < Steffanx> Yikes PaulFertser 
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2023-09-16T15:20:40 < jadew> PaulFertser, you can solder properly to aluminium, but it requires special flux
2023-09-16T15:21:21 < jadew> I'm surprised Carlson didn't know that and tried to solder to it using regular flux...
2023-09-16T15:21:28 < PaulFertser> jadew: I heard about that but not sure about the specific limitations and applicability of the method.
2023-09-16T15:21:55 < PaulFertser> I once tried to solder to alu foil under a drop of engine oil but couldn't make any progress.
2023-09-16T15:22:02 < jadew> PaulFertser, it works fine, the idea is that the flux needs to eat up the oxide layer and then prevent air from getting to it while you're soldering
2023-09-16T15:22:12 < jadew> it's very toxic tho from what I've heard
2023-09-16T15:22:42 < PaulFertser> jadew: so I was scratching the oxide off under oil and then soldering, so the oil should have prevented that too.
2023-09-16T15:23:02 < jadew> maybe it was preventing the bond from happening too :)
2023-09-16T15:24:18 < PaulFertser> jadew: either way, whatever the manufacturer vendor did was clearly wrong as that failed
2023-09-16T15:26:27 < PaulFertser> You also need to have take care of thermal expansion somehow. Soldering copper to aluminium doesn't seem to be common industry practice.
2023-09-16T15:39:26 < jadew> Do you guys think AI is going to put out better code that what the majority of developers put out today?
2023-09-16T15:39:59 < jadew> I wonder how that would work, given it's trained on what's out there, and what's out there is pure shit
2023-09-16T15:50:43 < PaulFertser> jadew: what surprised me more is that he just didn't try turning it on while disassembled to see the arcing.
2023-09-16T15:52:28 < jadew> haha
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2023-09-16T20:03:17 < jpa-> jadew: good developers write the most lines of code, ergo most of the training code will be written by good developers ;)
2023-09-16T20:05:01 < Steffanx> jpa- yet ##stm32 bestest developers wont share their code...
2023-09-16T20:45:40 < qyx> hu dat
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2023-09-16T21:08:39 < Mangy_Dog> do any of the higher end stm32s suport psram and external program flash space?
2023-09-16T21:08:46 < Mangy_Dog> kinda like a esp32 does
2023-09-16T21:09:15 < Steffanx> yes
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2023-09-16T21:18:05 < Steffanx> hu dat what qyx ?
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2023-09-16T21:18:33 < karlp> he didn't recognize the jibe at jadew
2023-09-16T21:27:31 < Steffanx> it was actually a "jibe" at the 2 jpa as well. :P
2023-09-16T21:27:43 < karlp> isn't most of jpa's work available?
2023-09-16T21:28:04 < karlp> whereas, to the best of my knowledge, zero of jadew's glories are.
2023-09-16T21:28:42 < karlp> old employer contracted me for some extra work.  paid promptly, nice, but not into the accoutn I put on the invoice, _nor_ the account they used to pay my wages into.  good job.
2023-09-16T21:28:54 < Steffanx> nah a while back jpa was looking for something. He concluded he had write it himself and refused to share the result 
2023-09-16T21:29:09 < karlp> ah, that's the current project he's contracting on though, where he can't
2023-09-16T21:29:10 < Steffanx> lol karlp .
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2023-09-16T21:46:38 < qyx> oh so jadew it was
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2023-09-16T22:11:20 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx, did you say you know of a stm32 that has expandable psram and program flash?
2023-09-16T22:11:55 < Steffanx> Are you looking for psram or .. just more wham?
2023-09-16T22:12:22 < Mangy_Dog> Im just trying to figure out how to make this winamp player :D
2023-09-16T22:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> oh yeah needs i2s as well
2023-09-16T22:12:51 < Mangy_Dog> and a fast enough clock to handle encoded audio
2023-09-16T22:13:09 < Mangy_Dog> i was looking at the CPU for the teensy4.1
2023-09-16T22:13:14 < Mangy_Dog> but i prefer to make a custom pcb
2023-09-16T22:13:21 < Mangy_Dog> and teensy has a locked down boot loader 
2023-09-16T22:13:25 < Mangy_Dog> so thats not really possible
2023-09-16T22:13:45 < Mangy_Dog> the teensy also had a 2D accelirator
2023-09-16T22:13:55 < Mangy_Dog> which i could use to drive the playlist display
2023-09-16T22:13:56 < Steffanx> I did dual mp3 on some F722 without extra wham and just an SD card.
2023-09-16T22:14:13 < Mangy_Dog> whats wham?
2023-09-16T22:14:16 < Steffanx> ram :P
2023-09-16T22:15:06 < Mangy_Dog> oh :p
2023-09-16T22:15:14 < Mangy_Dog> theres me thinking it was another type of memory ive just not heard of
2023-09-16T22:15:14 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2023-09-16T22:15:16 < Mangy_Dog> well
2023-09-16T22:15:23 < Mangy_Dog> i also need to hold the display buffer for 3 displays
2023-09-16T22:15:25 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2023-09-16T22:18:25 < Steffanx> 3 displays..
2023-09-16T22:18:36 < Mangy_Dog> one paralell lcd
2023-09-16T22:18:39 < Mangy_Dog> one spi lcd
2023-09-16T22:18:43 < Mangy_Dog> and one oled :D
2023-09-16T22:21:48 < Steffanx> anyway sounds like you should just open cubemx and do some filtering on qspi (if you want that) and/or FSMC/FMC
2023-09-16T22:27:45 < Mangy_Dog> oh so pretty much any chip with qspi can do it?.
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2023-09-16T22:38:11 < jpa-> karlp: i wish there were a "current project".. it feels like i always just get more projects and have to support them ad infinitum
2023-09-16T22:41:07 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: many STM32s have FSMC/FMC where you can add parallel psram or sdram, and some of the newer ones like H7 have QUADSPI; but QUADSPI only supports read access
2023-09-16T22:41:30 < jpa-> (i mean, memory mapped mode only supports read access; to write you have to do it through registers)
2023-09-16T22:41:31 < qyx> octospi you go
2023-09-16T22:41:33 < qyx> will
2023-09-16T22:41:47 < qyx> may
2023-09-16T22:46:06 < Steffanx> might
2023-09-16T22:48:15 < specing> >only supports read access
2023-09-16T22:48:19 < specing> market segmentation?!
2023-09-16T22:48:24 < specing> or what stupidity is that
2023-09-16T22:48:52 < qyx> how would you do a memory mapped flash write?
2023-09-16T22:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> for the stupid.... ie me FSMC and FMC?
2023-09-16T22:48:58 < qyx> have you ever seen that?
2023-09-16T22:49:24 < qyx> fsmc/fmc i deed support write access but notfor flash memories
2023-09-16T22:51:30 < jpa-> memory mapped qspi for psram chips would make perfect sense
2023-09-16T22:51:35 < jpa-> but seems to be rare
2023-09-16T22:51:47 < qyx> are yousure with that?
2023-09-16T22:51:56 < qyx> I would argue it is supported
2023-09-16T22:52:16 < jpa-> on which processor? STM32H7 doesn't support, RP2040 doesn't support, ESP32 doesn't support
2023-09-16T22:52:20 < qyx> because qspi/octospi on eg. h7 is flexible enough to do sram/osram
2023-09-16T22:52:24 < qyx> psram sorry
2023-09-16T22:52:28 < jpa-> it can read but not write
2023-09-16T22:52:42 < jpa-> (in memory mapped mode)
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2023-09-16T23:39:51 < zyp> jpa-, most of my projects seems to be stuff other people don't want to use, I think that's how I avoid having to do too much support stuff
2023-09-16T23:39:57 < Mangy_Dog> well thats just stupid
2023-09-16T23:40:15 < Mangy_Dog> why would st design their chips with a LCD interface.... that conflicts with USB
2023-09-16T23:40:22 < Mangy_Dog> youd think they would try and isolate those ports
2023-09-16T23:40:48 < zyp> probably depends on which package you've got
2023-09-16T23:41:19 < Mangy_Dog> an H7...
2023-09-16T23:41:30 < zyp> e.g. if you've got pin conflicts on a 100 pin package, you may be able to switch to a 144 pin one
2023-09-16T23:41:59 < qyx> a lcd interface? rgb?
2023-09-16T23:42:11 < Mangy_Dog> im starting to think i might have to bite the bullet and just accept using a teensy 4.1 module
2023-09-16T23:42:18 < Mangy_Dog> yeah rgb paralell
2023-09-16T23:42:39 < zyp> it's kinda impossible to have a bunch of parallel interfaces that needs a ton of pins without conflicts in a small package
2023-09-16T23:43:07 < Mangy_Dog> sure
2023-09-16T23:43:19 < Mangy_Dog> but usually youre able to find an alt pin
2023-09-16T23:43:32 < qyx> what requirements made you think it is the right one?
2023-09-16T23:43:46 < qyx> I would avoid it unless unavoidable
2023-09-16T23:44:05 < qyx> (I would go with spi)
2023-09-16T23:44:06 < zyp> for wide parallel interfaces, the alternate pins are usually in the io banks that are only available in larger packages
2023-09-16T23:44:33 < Mangy_Dog> ive only looked at a couple in cube
2023-09-16T23:44:42 < zyp> which ones?
2023-09-16T23:44:51 < Mangy_Dog> i couldnt say i deleted the project :p
2023-09-16T23:45:24 < Mangy_Dog> just avoiding mp1
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2023-09-16T23:46:05 < zyp> well, yeah, I'm saying larger *package*, not a different family
2023-09-16T23:46:29 < Mangy_Dog> looking at a 144 pin bga now
2023-09-16T23:46:54 < zyp> which one?
2023-09-16T23:47:20 < Mangy_Dog> h723zeix
2023-09-16T23:47:35 < qyx> isn't it p0.5?
2023-09-16T23:47:47 < zyp> yeah, you don't wanna use that
2023-09-16T23:47:47 < Mangy_Dog> im fairly randomly selecting them after putting in a few filters
2023-09-16T23:48:05 < zyp> what features do you need?
2023-09-16T23:48:06 < qyx> the only p0.8 h7 was tfbga100 iirc
2023-09-16T23:48:29 < zyp> no, h743 has a tfbga240
2023-09-16T23:48:42 < Mangy_Dog> i2s, lcd acceliration, expandable program and ram
2023-09-16T23:48:57 < zyp> expandable as in octospi?
2023-09-16T23:49:07 < Mangy_Dog> ideally
2023-09-16T23:49:34 < qyx> yeah, use a octospi flash/dram
2023-09-16T23:49:45 < qyx> (my octospi project is still not finished)
2023-09-16T23:49:55 < zyp> h7a3 maybe
2023-09-16T23:50:27 < Mangy_Dog> i think i need more speed
2023-09-16T23:50:33 < Mangy_Dog> i was looking at the 500mhz ones
2023-09-16T23:50:49 < zyp> oh, right, h7a3 is one of the slow ones
2023-09-16T23:51:02 < Mangy_Dog> 280mhz
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2023-09-16T23:51:04 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-09-16T23:51:06 < Mangy_Dog> i mean..
2023-09-16T23:51:08 < Mangy_Dog> well
2023-09-16T23:51:10 < zyp> slower, rather, 280 isn't exactly slow
2023-09-16T23:51:14 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-09-16T23:51:26 < Mangy_Dog> the thing is im driving 3 displays and compressed audio
2023-09-16T23:51:35 < Mangy_Dog> and a sql database
2023-09-16T23:51:56 < qyx> you need about 40 MIPS to decode a 128k mp3
2023-09-16T23:52:00 < zyp> wait, three displays?
2023-09-16T23:52:32 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1702808895444410783
2023-09-16T23:52:38 < Mangy_Dog> https://twitter.com/MD_Builds/status/1702826670208499757
2023-09-16T23:53:02 < Mangy_Dog> the bigger paralell one for the play list, a smaller spi one for the spectrum display, and oled for the small bars
2023-09-16T23:53:22 < zyp> ah, so one main display and two spi displays
2023-09-16T23:53:32 < Mangy_Dog> also the big one is touch
2023-09-16T23:53:34 < zyp> hmm, wait
2023-09-16T23:53:34 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods
2023-09-16T23:53:52 < zyp> spi for spectrum? you've ran the numbers on update speed on that?
2023-09-16T23:54:06 < Mangy_Dog> its quiet a small display
2023-09-16T23:54:14 < Mangy_Dog> let me double check
2023-09-16T23:54:45 < qyx> 320x240 24bit is only 2mbit
2023-09-16T23:54:50 < Mangy_Dog> 320 x 170
2023-09-16T23:55:03 < qyx> so you could easily get 40 fps and more
2023-09-16T23:55:12 < qyx> theoretically..
2023-09-16T23:55:15 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-09-16T23:55:31 < Mangy_Dog> ill aim for 30 though in my rtos schedular
2023-09-16T23:55:55 < Mangy_Dog> and increase if i feel theres enough spare cpu time
2023-09-16T23:56:07 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.buydisplay.com/full-viewing-angle-spi-1-9-inch-ips-tft-lcd-display-panel-170x320-st7789
2023-09-16T23:56:26 < zyp> 320x170 24bpp 30fps is 40 Mb/s
2023-09-16T23:57:10 < zyp> which is quite fast for SPI
2023-09-16T23:57:18 < Mangy_Dog> doesnt standard spi on stm32s go up to 80?
2023-09-16T23:57:21 < Mangy_Dog> 80mhz
2023-09-16T23:57:39 < Steffanx> but can the display do that as well?
2023-09-16T23:57:50 < qyx> yes, most
2023-09-16T23:57:52 < zyp> varies from chip to chip
2023-09-16T23:58:06 < zyp> but yeah
2023-09-16T23:58:21 < qyx> even the old 5 V ones could do 20 MHz
2023-09-16T23:58:29 < Steffanx> my question was more like: "Better check if the display can do it"
2023-09-16T23:58:29 < Mangy_Dog> hmm the display can do i2c too
2023-09-16T23:58:32 < qyx> I did use a few, 320x240
2023-09-16T23:58:55 < qyx> the ILI stuff should be pretty fast
2023-09-16T23:59:08 < zyp> 40 Mb/s spi is not impossible, but remember this is *average* speed required, not peak
2023-09-16T23:59:09 < Mangy_Dog> also the datasheet doesnt say :D ill look at the chip datasheet
2023-09-16T23:59:30 < Mangy_Dog> it also depends on selective pixel updating too
--- Day changed su syys 17 2023
2023-09-17T00:00:19 < zyp> running spi at 80 Mb/s peak or whatever the chip supports isn't a big deal, it's more a matter of keeping the data flowing without hiccups
2023-09-17T00:00:58 < zyp> of course, you'll just be DMAing it from a framebuffer, probably dual buffered, so it's not a super hard problem
2023-09-17T00:02:22 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-09-17T00:03:30 < zyp> I wonder how bad memory contention will be when you're both DMAing that and the main LCD, in parallel with everything else you'll be doing
2023-09-17T00:04:06 < Mangy_Dog> tbh thats why i wanted to look at high speed cpus
2023-09-17T00:04:09 < Mangy_Dog> mcus
2023-09-17T00:04:22 < Mangy_Dog> I actually wish esp32 did a bigger faster chip
2023-09-17T00:05:16 < zyp> higher speed doesn't necessarily mean less memory contention
2023-09-17T00:05:31 < zyp> more independent memory blocks do
2023-09-17T00:05:53 < zyp> might be worthwhile to put the framebuffers in different blocks of the internal ram
2023-09-17T00:06:16 < zyp> idk, you'll figure that out once you start measuring performance
2023-09-17T00:06:38 < Mangy_Dog> well quad spi even at 20mhz, will be faster than the displays
2023-09-17T00:06:53 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2023-09-17T00:07:13 < Mangy_Dog> its all very theorhetical at the moment
2023-09-17T00:07:21 < Mangy_Dog> the main thing im doing right now is research
2023-09-17T00:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> finding suitable displays 
2023-09-17T00:07:30 < Mangy_Dog> and platforms to build on
2023-09-17T00:07:31 < zyp> memory contention isn't about throughput, it's about latency
2023-09-17T00:07:47 < Mangy_Dog> doing a rough cad to see what pcb realestate i have and battery space
2023-09-17T00:08:18 < zyp> external memories can sustain a linear burst at bus speed fine
2023-09-17T00:09:34 < Mangy_Dog> id consider using the ft810 or bigger chip for the larger display
2023-09-17T00:09:35 < zyp> but every time you need to request a different address, you need to end the ongoing read and start a new one, and that takes a bunch of cycles where you won't be transferring any data
2023-09-17T00:09:50 < Mangy_Dog> that would handle all the paralell stuff while just using spi to talk to the graphics chip
2023-09-17T00:10:15 < Mangy_Dog> but the biggest problem with these chips is limited command per draw space
2023-09-17T00:10:21 < zyp> and if you've got two DMA jobs running in parallel from the same external memory, it'll be switching spots continously unless there's no cache in between
2023-09-17T00:10:24 < Mangy_Dog> making doing lots of text really problematic
2023-09-17T00:10:52 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods
2023-09-17T00:11:03 < zyp> s/unless/if/
2023-09-17T00:35:47 < Mangy_Dog> ok interesting
2023-09-17T00:36:41 < Mangy_Dog> in photoshop i just made a text box over the displ;ay reference i had, with the scaled image of winamp... filling the entire display with correctly scaled text....... 1452 characters... Thats just random characters...
2023-09-17T00:37:21 < Mangy_Dog> its a 2048 command limit
2023-09-17T00:37:29 < Mangy_Dog> i think... i might be ok
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2023-09-17T00:37:49 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont think ill be able to stream album art
2023-09-17T00:39:51 < Mangy_Dog> im starting to think it might be possible to run the whole thing on an esp32 s3
2023-09-17T00:40:13 < Mangy_Dog> if i use the graphics coprocessor chip
2023-09-17T00:45:21 < zyp> «I'm starting to think it might be possible to run the whole thing on an esp32-s3 if I don't run the whole thing on the esp32-s3»
2023-09-17T00:45:32 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2023-09-17T00:45:53 < Mangy_Dog> well the main thing even the graphics scripting will be on the esp but the chip takes in the open gl like commands over spi and renders from that
2023-09-17T00:46:00 < Mangy_Dog> its how i do my tricorders
2023-09-17T01:53:41 < Mangy_Dog> btw the mini display can also do 8bit paralell
2023-09-17T01:53:51 < Mangy_Dog> 8080... i think it strobes RGB per pixel
2023-09-17T01:53:58 < Mangy_Dog> ive not used the interface before
2023-09-17T01:54:29 < zyp> not worth it, SPI will most likely be less hassle in every way
2023-09-17T01:54:40 < Mangy_Dog> i was thinking about speed
2023-09-17T01:55:17 < Mangy_Dog> also less spi bottle necking i guess
2023-09-17T01:56:46 < zyp> it's not a given that 8-bit parallel via FMC will perform better than SPI
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2023-09-17T01:59:01 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i was wondering if DMA could split to paralell
2023-09-17T01:59:07 < Mangy_Dog> im guessing not
2023-09-17T01:59:42 < zyp> I believe FMC doesn't give you any sort of DMA triggers, so you'd probably have to run DMA in M2M mode and rely on bus flow control, which I suspect could interfere with concurrent jobs for the same DMA engine
2023-09-17T02:00:43 < zyp> that could be a nonissue, probably depends exactly what you've got ongoing concurrently
2023-09-17T02:03:32 < Mangy_Dog> tbh outside of everything microcontroller.... I really wish they made these displays thinner! https://www.buydisplay.com/4-6-inch-color-bar-tft-lcd-iot-display-800x320-pixels-with-optl-touch-screen
2023-09-17T02:04:17 < Mangy_Dog> 4.68mm thick with cap touch
2023-09-17T02:04:43 < Mangy_Dog> fairly trivial. I just wanted to keep the thing thin
2023-09-17T02:05:40 < zyp> probably a matter of fragility
2023-09-17T02:05:58 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2023-09-17T02:06:07 < Mangy_Dog> but ive seen plenty of displays a lot thinner
2023-09-17T02:06:18 < Mangy_Dog> i have several :p
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2023-09-17T02:06:26 < Mangy_Dog> future projects :p
2023-09-17T02:07:12 < zyp> sure, e.g. phone displays are typically thinner, but you rarely deal with those not mounted in a strong frame
2023-09-17T02:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2023-09-17T02:07:44 < zyp> a general purpose lcd like that probably needs to be thicker to survive the ways it'll typically be used
2023-09-17T02:08:06 < Mangy_Dog> nods maybe
2023-09-17T02:08:12 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2023-09-17T02:08:25 < Mangy_Dog> btw have you happen to use cap touch chips for touch strips?
2023-09-17T02:09:04 < Mangy_Dog> I have a query... https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/268/Atmel_9684_AT42_QT2640_Datasheet-1368948.pdf page 21... It says to put the Y on the top layer and the X on the bottom... im a bit suprised by that
2023-09-17T02:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> would have thought it be the other way round
2023-09-17T02:09:29 < zyp> I've never used any, closest thing I've gotten to cap touch is reading the cap touch chapter in one of the stm32 reference manuals to understand how it works
2023-09-17T02:09:38 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
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2023-09-17T07:50:36 < ColdKeyboard> If you are driving an RGB LEDs with PWM from timer. What would affect the color accuracy?
2023-09-17T07:51:04 < ColdKeyboard> If I set the LED to 100% red, 50% green, it should be orange. But the color I get is extremely green...
2023-09-17T07:51:34 < ColdKeyboard> Do you guys bump the resistor for green on the PCB or have some other tricks?
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2023-09-17T08:43:33 < jpa-> zyp: i totally would use laks but it doesn't have a readme so i can't ;)
2023-09-17T08:44:07 < jpa-> zyp: but on the other hand, i have been using orbtrace almost every workday for a year now
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2023-09-17T19:24:29 < begriffs> When I start openocd it says "stm32f4x.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints". What are hardware breakpoints useful for? When I set a normal breakpoint it seems to work... The GDB manual says I can use them to break on code stored in ROM, but anyone know what code on my Nucleo is stored that way?
2023-09-17T19:36:29 < jpa-> the normal breakpoints you set *are* hardware breakpoints
2023-09-17T19:36:38 < jpa-> and flash is ROM in this context
2023-09-17T19:37:29 < jpa-> for code that is in RAM, gdb will replace the instructions with bkpt-instruction; but for flash that would require too much erasing and rewriting, so the hardware has breakpoint support
2023-09-17T19:37:46 < begriffs> Hm, but GDB has a special command for setting hardware breakpoints, and I never use that command. Perhaps it's smart enough to pick the required kind?
2023-09-17T19:37:52 < jpa-> yes, it is
2023-09-17T19:38:39 < jpa-> on some platforms you have an actual choice; but i think on STM32, hardware breakpoints don't work for RAM, and "software" breakpoints don't work for flash
2023-09-17T19:38:51 < begriffs> Thanks for clearing that up.
2023-09-17T19:39:41 < begriffs> Also I don't see the 6 hardware breakpoint capability documented in my reference manuals. Wonder which manual specifies it?
2023-09-17T19:41:16 < jpa-> RM0090 section 38.12 FPB (Flash patch breakpoint)
2023-09-17T19:44:26 < begriffs> Looks like for my chip RM0383 is the comparable thing. In section 23.12 FPB (Flash patch breakpoint) it says it has "2 literal comparators" and "6 instruction comparators." I'm guessing the instruction comparators are what openocd was talking about.
2023-09-17T19:44:58 < begriffs> Wonder what the literal ones do
2023-09-17T19:50:29 < jpa-> they replace literals, i.e. constant values stored in flash
2023-09-17T19:51:34 < jpa-> dunno if there is direct way to make use of them from gdb
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--- Day changed ma syys 18 2023
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2023-09-18T15:28:32 < karlp> goddamn, my least favourite ever messages ever: error: format '%d' expects argument of type 'int', but argument 6 has type 'int32_t'
2023-09-18T15:29:05 < karlp> the amount of developer hours wasted by c "int is.. whatever maybe"  is wild
2023-09-18T15:31:57 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2023-09-18T15:32:06 < Mangy_Dog> i try to be implicit when i call number values
2023-09-18T15:32:15 < karlp> really?
2023-09-18T15:32:15 < Mangy_Dog> int8_t 16 32 ect
2023-09-18T15:32:16 < karlp> implicit?
2023-09-18T15:33:12 < Mangy_Dog> not the right word?
2023-09-18T15:33:31 < Mangy_Dog> what i mean is non ambiguous 
2023-09-18T15:34:21 < karlp> no, but that's not really the point.  the point is my types _are_ explicitly int32_t.  which means now I'm only allowed to use %" PRId32 " or %ld all the time, even though int and long int are the same on 32bit arm
2023-09-18T15:34:35 < karlp> it's just fucking annoying that int32_t is defined as long int.
2023-09-18T15:34:52 < Mangy_Dog> cant cast it for string passing?
2023-09-18T15:35:07 < karlp> "oooh, C only mandates an int to be min 16bit, even on 32bit platforms, better declare it to be long!"
2023-09-18T15:35:23 < karlp> the fuyck would I want to cast everything?! I want my 32bit vars to just be 32bit, without the hoops.
2023-09-18T15:35:43 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2023-09-18T15:35:54 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2023-09-18T15:36:00 < Mangy_Dog> I have a question....
2023-09-18T15:36:52 < Mangy_Dog> Platform IO... with ESP32. So trying to make a test program. But having an odd issue. When i compile its giving me "include not found" type errors... but ctrl clicking those headers find the files in the platform for teh chip...
2023-09-18T15:37:17 < Mangy_Dog> specifically wifi.h
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2023-09-18T16:44:31 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: maybe they are not in the include path directly, but need something like #include <esp32/wifi.h> or something
2023-09-18T16:44:50 < jpa-> you can check the actual command line it passes to gcc to know the include path
2023-09-18T16:46:51 < jpa-> looks like for the arduino framework it is called WiFi.h, while for espidf framework it is esp_wifi.h
2023-09-18T16:46:57 < jpa-> different contents of course
2023-09-18T17:10:13 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2023-09-18T17:11:12 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah using arduino framework
2023-09-18T17:12:13 < Mangy_Dog> wheni ctrl click wifi.h it takes me to the file
2023-09-18T17:12:48 < Mangy_Dog> .platformio/packages/framework-arduinoepressif32/libraries/WiFi/src/WiFi.h
2023-09-18T17:13:18 < Mangy_Dog> do i need to add it to the project some how?
2023-09-18T17:13:44 < Mangy_Dog> btw i dont kno platform io :p remember i used eclipse before
2023-09-18T17:16:20 < Mangy_Dog> hmm i think i got the wifi installed
2023-09-18T17:16:27 < Mangy_Dog> lib through the cli installer
2023-09-18T17:16:30 < Mangy_Dog> now more errors :D
2023-09-18T17:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> yeah cant find SPI.h now either
2023-09-18T17:23:12 < Mangy_Dog> and its part of the core framwork
2023-09-18T17:23:30 < Mangy_Dog> there must be something im missing like needing to select installed libraries and link them to the project
2023-09-18T17:30:21 < Mangy_Dog> oh ok
2023-09-18T17:30:29 < Mangy_Dog> you liturally put in their names into platform ini
2023-09-18T17:34:08 < Mangy_Dog> right had to add about 10 library names in the platformio.ini file :D But at least it builds now
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2023-09-18T17:41:47 < Mangy_Dog> what is interesting is freertos is already available... I didnt have to do any kind of include or attach it in the ini file
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2023-09-18T18:29:51 < machinehum> Canadian goverenment grants suck
2023-09-18T18:35:25 < Mangy_Dog> i lost my sd card breakouts D:
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2023-09-18T21:09:13 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Q7M3nZz.png
2023-09-18T21:13:27 < Steffanx> wonderful bitmask  
2023-09-18T21:13:33 < bitmask> i know, right?
2023-09-18T21:14:01 < Steffanx> Yes its great
2023-09-18T21:14:26 < bitmask> you're too kind
2023-09-18T21:14:48 < Steffanx> What will it do
2023-09-18T21:17:01 < PaulFertser> What are you going to use this for? What torque?
2023-09-18T21:20:04 < bitmask> I decided to change all my own brake pads and bought a little drill adapter for my scissor jack (bottom of pic). my shitty 12v drill cant handle it so Im trying this. its 4:1 which hopefully will be enough
2023-09-18T21:23:43 < PaulFertser> Why can't you just do it with the lever that came with it? :)
2023-09-18T21:24:06 < PaulFertser> An interesting experiment nevertheless.
2023-09-18T21:30:36 < PaulFertser> I kinda doubt it's going to handle the torque on the output shaft.
2023-09-18T21:43:39 < karlp> brake pads on what vehicle?
2023-09-18T21:46:35 < bitmask> yea thats the main thing im worried about breaking
2023-09-18T21:46:41 < bitmask> but still wanted to try
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2023-09-18T21:47:16 < bitmask> I can always try a square hole with a metal 1/2" tool adapter instead of a printed 1/2" part
2023-09-18T21:47:46 < bitmask> karlp just my car
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2023-09-18T21:48:10 < bitmask> using the lever that comes with the manual jack sucks and takes forever, just wanted to try to speed things up
2023-09-18T21:48:56 < PaulFertser> bitmask: is your last sentence not meant to be ironical?
2023-09-18T21:49:30 < bitmask> why, because im taking the time to make this?
2023-09-18T21:49:48 < PaulFertser> Yes, and it's like obvious to everybody that it's much more time.
2023-09-18T21:51:38 < bitmask> its relative, i like working on this stuff, sitting there for 20 min per tire is aweful
2023-09-18T21:52:22 < PaulFertser> It shouldn't be taking 20 minutes though... I used scissor jack many times.
2023-09-18T21:52:53 < PaulFertser> But yes, fun factor is important.
2023-09-18T21:52:54 < bitmask> to go up and down takes a while, i dont know exactly how much time but 15 min up and then 5 min down seems reasonable
2023-09-18T21:54:10 < PaulFertser> Is it like a super-heavy SUV?
2023-09-18T21:54:56 < bitmask> no, unless im using it wrong, you gotta take it out of the hole every half a turn, its a slow process
2023-09-18T21:55:30 < PaulFertser> In normal conditions you shouldn't need to take it out of the hole, no. Probably you're using an unsuitable lever?
2023-09-18T21:55:48 < PaulFertser> You're supposed to just keep rotating
2023-09-18T21:56:20 < bitmask> i just use what it came with, in my minutes of deciding if taking it out every half a turn was the right method, i couldn't find a better way :P
2023-09-18T21:56:40 < bitmask> i dont see how you could keep it on
2023-09-18T21:57:15 < bitmask> maybe rotating around to spin it and then swinging it towards me to get it back to the other side? who knows
2023-09-18T21:57:28 < bitmask> that would still be almost as slow
2023-09-18T21:58:05 < bitmask> let me get a pic so you know what im dealing with
2023-09-18T21:58:06 < mawk> how many molecules are there in a car tyre?
2023-09-18T21:58:55 < PaulFertser> Is yours like this: https://www.autoone.com.au/Images/ProductImages/Large/91994837_1.jpg ?
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2023-09-18T21:59:58 < bitmask> yes but wrench/lever thing doesnt have that bend in it
2023-09-18T22:00:44 < PaulFertser> Please get a pic :)
2023-09-18T22:00:47 < bitmask> so you cant just hold onto it and twist, you have to have it perpendicular to that method of rotation, where you get half a turn and then run into the ground
2023-09-18T22:01:00 < PaulFertser> Insane...
2023-09-18T22:01:03 < bitmask> https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Scissor-Jack-for-Car-2-0Ton-4409lbs-Car-Jack-Kit-Tire-Jack-Portable-deal-for-SUV-and-Auto-with-Crank-Handle-Heavy-Duty-Material-Black_da6f960d-2ede-48a9-85dc-4aec7a68dc3c.5ef33b50dc683645afc4ff2e0e21831d.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF
2023-09-18T22:01:05 < bitmask> like that
2023-09-18T22:01:09 < bitmask> but without that second handle piece
2023-09-18T22:01:17 < bitmask> just the one with the hook at the end
2023-09-18T22:03:03 < PaulFertser> No way :/
2023-09-18T22:03:51 < nomorekaki> https://www.bahco.com/int_en/trolley-jack-3t-pb_bh13000_.html moneyed western choise of car jack
2023-09-18T22:04:45 < nomorekaki> 50kg
2023-09-18T22:07:17 < bitmask> who knows, maybe theres another piece in the trunk that I didn't realize was part of it? that wouldn't surprise me, not like I was ever taught how to do this shit :P
2023-09-18T22:08:10 < PaulFertser> There was supposed to be a fucking manual supplied along with the car you know ;)
2023-09-18T22:08:41 < bitmask> people actually read that thing? :)
2023-09-18T22:09:34 < PaulFertser> Why not, it tells plenty of useful things.
2023-09-18T22:11:30 < Steffanx> i just use my 30 euro lidl one nomorekaki . it never failed me (yet)
2023-09-18T22:12:17 < nomorekaki> parkour or whatever brand lidl sells is 100% value
2023-09-18T22:12:21 < bitmask> i was jk, ive used it for other things, I guess I just assumed the jack was meant to be horrible, my bad
2023-09-18T22:13:24 < Steffanx> lol finland has arni nomorekaki ?!?! https://www.lidl.fi/c/parkside/s10022145
2023-09-18T22:14:19 < nomorekaki> arni?
2023-09-18T22:14:42 < PaulFertser> Please keep us updated on how your planetary gear testing goes.
2023-09-18T22:14:52 < Steffanx> Yeah im allowed to call him arni, nomorekaki 
2023-09-18T22:14:54 < BrainDamage> bitmask: if you have an electric drill, you should be able to fit the eyelet in the chuck if you open it completely
2023-09-18T22:15:02 < nomorekaki> call who?
2023-09-18T22:15:24 < Steffanx> did you even click my lidl.fi link?
2023-09-18T22:15:41 < nomorekaki> yes
2023-09-18T22:15:42 < nomorekaki> aah
2023-09-18T22:15:44 < nomorekaki> arni
2023-09-18T22:15:48 < Steffanx> Good morning
2023-09-18T22:16:14 < nomorekaki> his name is Arska
2023-09-18T22:16:24 < bitmask> BrainDamage even if it did fit it wouldnt matter, it doesn't have enough torque
2023-09-18T22:21:05 < ventYl> bitmask: one of my cars has that hooked part in the shape of Z, effectively creating a crank. In other the hooked part has a hole at the other end. In that hole, wheel screw wrench can be inserted effectively creating two-part crank.
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2023-09-18T22:23:46 < bitmask> yea, im guessing mine has the hole in it and a second part which i just realized 5 min ago, maybe mine is missing or more likely I just didnt know to look, i'll check when i go out there
2023-09-18T22:24:26 < ventYl> if car in question is of japanese origin, I'd expect that wheelnut wrench actually makes the other part as there is probably only one "the japanese emergency carjack" out there
2023-09-18T22:24:33 < ventYl> and is made by Denso
2023-09-18T22:24:51 < bitmask> yea its japanese
2023-09-18T22:25:09 < bitmask> i think youre right, thats why I didnt think it was part of the jack
2023-09-18T22:25:31 < ventYl> check if the non-business end of wheelnut wrench is shaped like a screwdriver, if yes, there you go
2023-09-18T22:25:44 < bitmask> k
2023-09-18T22:26:07 < ventYl> yeah, I almost threw it out, because wrench in car has 19mm head, while nuts are 21mm. then realized it doubles as crank for the jack
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2023-09-18T22:26:56 < ventYl> needless to say, that if I ever had to use this during an emergency, I will probably rather set the car on fire and call it a day
2023-09-18T22:27:03 < bitmask> well at least if this drill attachment fails im not back to zero :)
2023-09-18T22:27:29 < ventYl> single-piece crank causes sufficient amount of trouble, this arrangement must be an order of magnitude worse
2023-09-18T22:27:43 < bitmask> i bought a breaker bar and torque wrench for the wheels because the wrench it comes with is useless
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2023-09-18T22:28:34 < ventYl> ale wheelnuts of the right type?
2023-09-18T22:28:38 < ventYl> *are
2023-09-18T22:28:40 < bitmask> shoulda just bought a new jack but oh well :P
2023-09-18T22:28:45 < bitmask> yea
2023-09-18T22:28:52 < bitmask> i forget what i got but they are right
2023-09-18T22:29:15 < ventYl> probably cone, japanese here has cones too
2023-09-18T22:29:34 < ventYl> and I have two sets of rims, one OEM honda, another OEM mitsubishi and both are same
2023-09-18T22:31:43 < PaulFertser> ventYl: do you not carry tire repair kit to fix non-critical damage fast by just inserting the rubber in the hole without jacking?
2023-09-18T22:32:10 < bitmask> I bought one of those, havent used it yet though
2023-09-18T22:32:41 < ventYl> PaulFertser: well, with Audi and Skoda, you'd have to jack the car up to get to the place of repair anyway. at that stage you can simply switch to spare and call it a day
2023-09-18T22:33:07 < PaulFertser> ventYl: so little clearance?
2023-09-18T22:33:47 < ventYl> PaulFertser: +- standard, but you have to work underneath the car. no way you're gonna insert knot driver into wheelarch.
2023-09-18T22:34:56 < PaulFertser> ventYl: I kinda miss my vaz-21013
2023-09-18T22:35:23 < ventYl> honda has shitload of room, pretty shitty jack too and originally came only with emergency spare so I might opt for tire repair kit for it
2023-09-18T22:35:36 < ventYl> PaulFertser: I doubt there's anything to miss at that car
2023-09-18T22:36:57 < PaulFertser> ventYl: it was reasonably reliable and easy to repair
2023-09-18T22:37:01 < ventYl> PaulFertser: my neighbour is 62 years old and been working as mechanic since the age of 15. so I heard a lot of stories how shitty spare parts for these cars were and how rusty they could get.
2023-09-18T22:38:22 < PaulFertser> ventYl: idk, I was lucky with spare parts, and the car was 1983 make and served for probably 30 years.
2023-09-18T22:40:13 < ventYl> PaulFertser: I guess that this is stigma of post-soviet countries. We too heard a lot of "these new cars won't last as long as our old did". Now my Audi is 30 years old and still kicking. And Honda is 23 years old and if it doesn't rust through, it won't break anytime soon.
2023-09-18T22:40:59 < ventYl> The truth is that most of '90s fuel injected cars are equally, or even more primitive than soviet carburated cars
2023-09-18T22:41:11 < PaulFertser> ventYl: I'm not saying it was better than a proper car from that (or slightly older) era.
2023-09-18T22:41:18 < PaulFertser> s/older/newer/
2023-09-18T22:43:02 < ventYl> PaulFertser: yeah, but that boils down to the only reason why to miss it: nostalgia.
2023-09-18T22:43:28 < PaulFertser> ventYl: regarding the automotive electronic devices from that period: http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/
2023-09-18T22:43:56 < Steffanx> the website is from the same period
2023-09-18T22:45:00 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: very unsuspicious url
2023-09-18T22:46:41 < qyx> ventYl: I had to use such a jack once, It wasn't able to lift the car, the thread broke
2023-09-18T22:47:08 < ventYl> qyx: I also managed to strip thread on one such jack. this is usually due to the dirt in the thread.
2023-09-18T22:47:56 < ventYl> PaulFertser: sure, not everything went absolutely well
2023-09-18T22:48:09 < ventYl> but you could tell that on mechanical side too
2023-09-18T22:54:35 < ventYl> PaulFertser: also, that page looks like pretty generic description of what could go wrong with your ABS
2023-09-18T22:55:19 < ventYl> I had to fix ABS on Honda after I bought it too. Judging by the output of diagnostics it looked like completely cooked, but after some live tests it turned out that all it was missing was just one sensor.
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2023-09-18T22:56:48 < PaulFertser> ventYl: reading that page I conclude many things go wrong with those units eventually, and it's not problems external to them, unfortunately. Also, obscure firmware which this fellow had to dump and disassemble to understand the error codes.
2023-09-18T22:59:28 < ventYl> PaulFertser: I take it that he rather disassembled the firmware than trying to get reasonable workshop manual covering detailed service procedures
2023-09-18T23:00:02 < ventYl> and yeah, electrical systems may get more complex than mechanical as their electrically connected parts may reside far apart
2023-09-18T23:00:10 < ventYl> with mechanics you are limited to mechanical linkage
2023-09-18T23:00:30 < ventYl> with software there is no spatial representation. once you interconnect things with CAN, anything can go wrong due to whatever reason
2023-09-18T23:00:43 < PaulFertser> ventYl: workshop manual wouldn't be including how to repair the board itself.
2023-09-18T23:00:54 < ventYl> like quite a few new cars do implement feature "open driver's door to brick your instrument cluster"
2023-09-18T23:01:43 < ventYl> PaulFertser: nope, but I expect that absolute minority of ABS faults is caused by damage on the board itself, unless it is an explicitly unlucky design
2023-09-18T23:02:18 < PaulFertser> ventYl: enough to keep that guy busy
2023-09-18T23:03:12 < ventYl> that's a relative number as those bikes were equipped with ABS as standard since like 1993
2023-09-18T23:03:17 < ventYl> and there are shitloads of them
2023-09-18T23:04:11 < ventYl> but, yeah, there are electrical components faulty by design similar to mechanical components faulty by design
2023-09-18T23:04:44 < ventYl> there used to be a lot of prematurely failing electrical components in early stage of their presence
2023-09-18T23:04:57 < ventYl> like, a lot. a lot more than today.
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2023-09-19T18:27:51 < PhantomWork> hi there, in stm32cubeide... I can't build the project because the path contain accented characters, which I can not avoid easilly... Is there a config somewhere for that?
2023-09-19T18:29:35 < mawk> what's the error?
2023-09-19T18:29:46 < mawk> why you can't avoid? t'es québécois ???
2023-09-19T18:30:14 < mawk> les espaces en général ça passe mal mais les accents ça devrait aller
2023-09-19T18:30:19 < mawk> sous linux en tout cas
2023-09-19T18:30:34 < mawk> sous windows faut peut-être forcer l'IDE à utiliser UTF-8 ou quoi pour les chemins
2023-09-19T18:30:56 < mawk> regarde pour Eclipse en général, cubeIDE c'est basé dessus
2023-09-19T18:31:25 < PhantomWork> oui QC... et c'est le problème... je suis forcé de travaillé sur le serveur, qui a des accents...
2023-09-19T18:32:25 < PhantomWork> C:/ST/STM32CubeIDE_1.11.0/STM32CubeIDE/plugins/com.st.stm32cube.ide.mcu.externaltools.gnu-tools-for-stm32.11.3.rel1.win32_1.1.1.202309131626/tools/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/11.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld.exe: cannot open linker script file I:\*********\Ing??nierie\DOCUMENTS\*******\Programmation\STM32\*****\STM32F103C8TX_FLASH.ld: No
2023-09-19T18:32:26 < PhantomWork> such file or directory
2023-09-19T18:32:27 < mawk> tu peux faire un raccourci sous forme de lien symbolique 
2023-09-19T18:32:32 < mawk> pour virer les accents
2023-09-19T18:32:44 < mawk> ou bien monter une lettre de lecteur virtuelle vers le dossier
2023-09-19T18:33:06 < mawk> y'a des espaces dans le chemin PhantomWork ?
2023-09-19T18:33:13 < mawk> c'est plus important que les accents 
2023-09-19T18:33:26 < PhantomWork> espace ET accents...    les accents ont été remplacé par ??
2023-09-19T18:33:37 < mawk> je pense que c'est les espaces le pb
2023-09-19T18:33:46 < PhantomWork> les espaces marchais en local
2023-09-19T18:33:47 < mawk> essaie sans ça pour commencer
2023-09-19T18:33:49 < mawk> ah
2023-09-19T18:33:51 < mawk> sous windows ?
2023-09-19T18:33:54 < PhantomWork> oui
2023-09-19T18:34:14 < mawk> ouvre un terminal genre msys ou wsl2 et lance dos2unix sur les fichiers de projet de cube
2023-09-19T18:34:19 < mawk> ce sont des fichiers cachés 
2023-09-19T18:34:25 < mawk> faut fermer l'IDE avant 
2023-09-19T18:34:36 < mawk> c'est genre .cproject et tout
2023-09-19T18:34:42 < mawk> tu fais ls -la pour les regarder
2023-09-19T18:36:38 < mawk> mais sinon tu fais un lien symbolique et puis voilà 
2023-09-19T18:36:43 < mawk> dans un dossier sans accents
2023-09-19T18:36:58 < PhantomWork> j'essaye le lien... et mklink n'est pas reconnu... weird
2023-09-19T18:37:04 < mawk> tu lances dans quoi?
2023-09-19T18:37:08 < mawk> quelle version de Windows ?
2023-09-19T18:38:00 < PhantomWork> win10pro
2023-09-19T18:38:03 < mawk> faut windows 10 ou windows server 2019
2023-09-19T18:38:05 < mawk> ah
2023-09-19T18:38:09 < mawk> ben t'as mklink alors
2023-09-19T18:38:13 < mawk> tu le lances où ?
2023-09-19T18:38:22 < mawk> fais win+r et tape cmd puis entrée 
2023-09-19T18:38:27 < PhantomWork> powershell
2023-09-19T18:38:30 < mawk> ah
2023-09-19T18:38:35 < mawk> essaie dans cmd
2023-09-19T18:38:40 < mawk> mklink /?
2023-09-19T18:38:59 < PhantomWork> ... et ca marche dans cmd...
2023-09-19T18:39:16 < mawk> ouais
2023-09-19T18:39:27 < mawk> c'est une commande différente dans powershell
2023-09-19T18:41:21 < PhantomWork> ah et faut etre admin en plus
2023-09-19T18:44:19 < PhantomWork> ... et mon user ne le vois pas...
2023-09-19T18:48:11 < PhantomWork> ... ca aide si je suis dans le bon dossier y too...
2023-09-19T18:51:06 < PhantomWork> ... et non... le symlink fait qui le suit et agie comme un racourci...
2023-09-19T18:57:02 < mawk> non
2023-09-19T18:57:06 < mawk> c'est pas possible 
2023-09-19T18:57:16 < mawk> c'est pas un raccourci c'est un symlink
2023-09-19T18:57:33 < mawk> t'as bien fait mklink /d ?
2023-09-19T18:57:41 < mawk> pour un symlink de répertoire 
2023-09-19T18:57:57 < mawk> mais sinon si ça marche pas essaie avec une jonction de répertoire 
2023-09-19T18:58:03 < mawk> ça sera invisible à l'app
2023-09-19T18:58:17 < mawk> mklink /j
2023-09-19T19:00:49 < PhantomWork> la jonction c'est pour du local seulement
2023-09-19T19:00:59 < PhantomWork> et oui /D
2023-09-19T19:01:16 < PhantomWork> donc... plan C?
2023-09-19T19:01:33 < mawk> tu peux faire une jonction sur le serveur 
2023-09-19T19:01:45 < mawk> directement 
2023-09-19T19:01:55 < mawk> genre Ingénierie vers Ingenierie
2023-09-19T19:01:58 < mawk> dans le même dossier
2023-09-19T19:02:06 < mawk> c'est ça que je pensais que t'avais essayé 
2023-09-19T19:02:48 < PhantomWork> ca je ne peu pas le faire je crois...
2023-09-19T19:02:48 < mawk> sinon plan C c'est rajouter une lettre de lecteur virtuelle
2023-09-19T19:02:58 < mawk> t'as pas les droits dans le dossier?
2023-09-19T19:03:10 < mawk> ça fait encore la même erreur quand tu réouvres le projet?
2023-09-19T19:03:12 < mawk> par contre
2023-09-19T19:03:22 < mawk> l'IDE va se souvenir du chemin
2023-09-19T19:03:24 < PhantomWork> j'ai pas d'accès directement sur le serveur...
2023-09-19T19:03:28 < mawk> faut changer dans les paramètres et tout 
2023-09-19T19:03:46 < mawk> donc garde ton symlink puis regarde dans la conf du projet comment changer le chemin
2023-09-19T19:03:50 < mawk> sinon ça va rien changer
2023-09-19T19:04:15 < mawk> ou bien avec WSL tu fais un petit grep pour chercher
2023-09-19T19:04:52 < mawk> mais sinon avant tout ça t'avais bien essayé le dos2unix?
2023-09-19T19:05:00 < mawk> pour être sûr que c'était pas un pb d'encodage
2023-09-19T19:06:16 < PhantomWork> j'ai pas WSL?
2023-09-19T19:06:24 < mawk> normalement si
2023-09-19T19:06:28 < mawk> ça vient avec windows
2023-09-19T19:06:52 < mawk> suffit de l'activer avec une commande powershell
2023-09-19T19:07:01 < mawk> ou dans la liste des applications 
2023-09-19T19:07:15 < mawk> "fonctionnalités supplémentaires de windows"
2023-09-19T19:07:33 < mawk> tu fais win+r, tu tapes control et entrée 
2023-09-19T19:07:39 < mawk> c'est l'ancien panneau de configuration 
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2023-09-19T19:08:01 < mawk> tu vas dans programmes et fonctionnalités et sur le côté y'a genre "ajouter ou retirer des fonctionnalités de windows"
2023-09-19T19:08:12 < mawk> dedans t'auras "windows subsystem for Linux"
2023-09-19T19:08:18 < mawk> tu coches et tu redémarres
2023-09-19T19:08:30 < mawk> coche aussi les machins hyper-V qui ont du sense
2023-09-19T19:09:07 < mawk> une fois que c'est activé tu peux installer Ubuntu ou Debian depuis le windows store
2023-09-19T19:09:13 < mawk> ou depuis la ligne de commande
2023-09-19T19:09:43 < mawk> Steffanx va dire "je ne parle pas français" très bientôt 
2023-09-19T19:10:36 < PhantomWork> on lui enveras un bouquet de fleur de lys blanche et bleu :D
2023-09-19T19:10:41 < mawk> lol
2023-09-19T19:12:37 < Steffanx> Omelette du fromage 
2023-09-19T19:13:19 < Steffanx> Je voudrais une kilo de peche
2023-09-19T19:13:35 < Steffanx> Sil vous plait 
2023-09-19T19:13:48 < Steffanx> Et toi?
2023-09-19T19:14:49 < PhantomWork> Steffanx: kilo is a guy, so "un kilo"  :D
2023-09-19T19:14:56 < Steffanx> Lol
2023-09-19T19:15:17 < mawk> un gramme 
2023-09-19T19:15:20 < mawk> un kilogramme
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2023-09-19T19:16:25 < mawk> en néerlandais ils ont un seul article à la fois pour les mots feminins et masculins: "de"
2023-09-19T19:16:35 < Steffanx> I'm not sure I could care less about a language. Even my Spanish is better than my French. I never had Spanish in highschool 
2023-09-19T19:16:38 < mawk> puis y'a un genre neutre et c'est "het"
2023-09-19T19:17:04 < mawk> in dutch male and female gender words are with "de", and neutral het
2023-09-19T19:17:09 < Steffanx> De het en een zijn lidwoorden 
2023-09-19T19:17:26 < mawk> in french it's "le" for male, "la" for female, and the neutral has been combined with female
2023-09-19T19:17:31 < mawk> a long long time ago
2023-09-19T19:17:42 < Steffanx> Lale
2023-09-19T19:17:50 < mawk> lalalalalelalelala
2023-09-19T19:17:57 < Steffanx> Lela
2023-09-19T19:18:36 < mawk> waarom de/het/een ??
2023-09-19T19:18:39 < mawk> waarom een
2023-09-19T19:19:10 < mawk> niet hetzelfde lidwoord type
2023-09-19T19:21:10 < Steffanx> No
2023-09-19T19:21:16 < Steffanx> Onbepaald vs bepaald
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2023-09-19T19:23:50 < PhantomWork> bbl
2023-09-19T19:26:47 < mawk> inderdaad
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2023-09-19T20:45:30 < PhantomWork> mawk: subst ne marche pas non plus... stm32cubeide ne reconnait pas le lecteur... yay...   as-tu une idée pour le plan... e?
2023-09-19T20:48:46 < zyp> ok
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2023-09-19T21:14:11 < Steffanx> Lol. Time to get back to English PhantomWork -_-
2023-09-19T21:32:58 < PhantomWork> :'(
2023-09-19T21:33:41 < ventYl> fuck this clusterfuck software
2023-09-19T21:38:59 < Steffanx> Bad enough to make you go back to automative ventYl ?
2023-09-19T21:39:28 < Steffanx> Misra C all day
2023-09-19T21:40:00  * specing has to learn MISRA C one day
2023-09-19T21:40:32 < ventYl> Steffanx: I still dream of fleet of B29s dropping bombs in a week-long air raid onto Munchen
2023-09-19T21:40:33 < specing> for those projects where adding Ada would cause heart attacks among existing devs
2023-09-19T21:42:34 < ventYl> specing: it is actually rather simple. no malloc, no recursion, hungarian variable naming notation, every if has to have else, even if it will contain just {}, you have to use Yoda conditions and every function can only have one return
2023-09-19T21:42:44 < ventYl> this will make Misra C 80% covered
2023-09-19T21:44:05 < qyx> one return?
2023-09-19T21:44:13 < qyx> I forgot that one
2023-09-19T21:45:16 < qyx> other than that and the hungarian notation, I conform to all you mentioned unless not logical
2023-09-19T21:47:37 < ventYl> it is not explicitly said you have to use hungarian notation, but you should somehow encode certain properties of variables such as width and type, so light form of hungarian notation is commonly used
2023-09-19T21:48:04 < ventYl> and yeah, the fact it is based on C89 will take the rest of joy out of your miserable life
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2023-09-19T21:56:22 < specing> ventYl: >every if has to have else... wtf?
2023-09-19T21:59:23 < qyx> hm yeah no
2023-09-19T21:59:40 < qyx> if 'if' has {}, then else need them too
2023-09-19T21:59:52 < qyx> and 'if' always have them
2023-09-19T22:00:01 < specing> ahh, that's more reasonable
2023-09-19T22:00:02 < qyx> even for signle statements
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2023-09-19T22:00:11 < specing> C89 meaning variables have to be declared on top? 
2023-09-19T22:00:16 < specing> That's sadly Ada life as well
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2023-09-19T22:01:24 < ventYl> specing: that's '80s programmer's defense agains misleading indentation. you simply have always to write else, so if / else / if and if / if / else won't end up ambiguous
2023-09-19T22:02:20 < qyx> MISRA C:2012, 15.2 - The goto statement shall jump to a label declared later in the same function
2023-09-19T22:02:33 < qyx> heh
2023-09-19T22:03:26 < qyx> While C syntax considers array subscripts ([]) as symmetrical, meaning that a[i] and i[a] are equivalent, the convention is to put the index in the brackets rather than the array name. Inverting the index and array name serves no purpose, and is very confusing
2023-09-19T22:03:30 < qyx> lol that too
2023-09-19T22:03:35 < qyx> I never heard this is even possible
2023-09-19T22:04:33 < qyx> very enlightening page https://rules.sonarsource.com/c/
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2023-09-20T00:34:19 < zyp> heh, I'm testing how far I can push the duty of this CSD97394 before the bootstrap capacitor fails to charge, it's stable up to 8184/8192
2023-09-20T00:34:30 < zyp> that's roughly 99.9% duty
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2023-09-20T02:06:25 < karlp> qyx: it's not about using {} it's that _every if must have an else_
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2023-09-20T02:09:08 < karlp> god I hate connectors and wiring for proto shits.
2023-09-20T02:09:21 < karlp> every china bit comes with a different, incompatible crimped on thing.
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2023-09-20T12:15:27 < qyx> karlp: that's retarded
2023-09-20T12:22:00 < ventYl> it had its purpose back in '80s and '90s
2023-09-20T12:38:49 < karlp> qyx: ... yes :)
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2023-09-20T13:36:58 < jpa-> does anyone have a fool-proof way of marking STM32 orientation to stop PCBA shops from assembling them wrong way around? :)
2023-09-20T13:37:48 < jpa-> i wonder about duplicating the chip text markings to the silkscreen
2023-09-20T13:38:10 < jpa-> but probably they'll still just go by the biggest circle, which will be the mold eject mark
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2023-09-20T13:47:20 < PaulFertser> Do you miss your Windows 95 as much as this local cinema theatre does https://www.kolnoakanada.com/ ?
2023-09-20T13:48:28 < mawk> lol
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2023-09-20T13:55:02 < karlp> fucking,  out of disk again on this fucking little sbc.
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2023-09-20T13:57:23 < karlp> why isn't 16G enough disk!
2023-09-20T14:01:46 < Steffanx> It is. Just don't install so many things
2023-09-20T14:04:12 < karlp> I don't really feel I have honestly :)
2023-09-20T14:04:44 < karlp> but bleh. it's also an old odroid c2, so upgrading storage is tedious as well, having to buy emmc on a special board module frrom a single vendor :)
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2023-09-20T14:15:18 < ventYl> PaulFertser: damn
2023-09-20T14:27:38 < zyp> jpa-, aren't there some asymmetric BGA options? use those
2023-09-20T14:29:50 < zyp> hmm, maybe not
2023-09-20T14:30:29 < zyp> use the WLCSP options then, they're not molded and shouldn't have the mold mark :)
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2023-09-20T14:54:48 < jpa-> even QFN is probably fine :)
2023-09-20T14:55:08 < jpa-> because they laser the mark instead of molding it
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2023-09-20T16:45:24 < Laurence_b> supp
2023-09-20T16:45:39 < Laurence_b> what could cause printf to segfault on lunix (rpi)  ?
2023-09-20T16:48:40 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: you know that wrong arguments is the most probable and obvious answer
2023-09-20T16:49:09 < Laurence_b> printf("Test\r\n");
2023-09-20T16:49:21 < PaulFertser> That doesn't segfault.
2023-09-20T16:51:11 < Laurence_b> hmm no its working
2023-09-20T16:51:19 < Laurence_b> maybe memory corruption
2023-09-20T16:52:02 < Laurence_b> ./temperature: symbol lookup error: ./temperature: undefined symbol: fflush, version GLIBC_2.4
2023-09-20T16:52:07 < Laurence_b> wtf
2023-09-20T16:55:26 < specing> Laurence_b: did you crosscompile
2023-09-20T16:56:06 < Laurence_b> no
2023-09-20T16:56:19 < Laurence_b> gcc temperature.c -lm -gdwarf-2 -o temperature
2023-09-20T16:56:40 < specing> well
2023-09-20T16:57:08 < specing> the obivous explanation would be that either your program or some library is compiled against a different version of glibc
2023-09-20T16:59:47 < Laurence_b> i'll reinstall build-essential
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2023-09-20T17:04:40 < Laurence_b> nope, same error
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2023-09-20T17:08:23 < Laurence_b> I'll upgrade the pi...
2023-09-20T17:20:18 < Laurence_b> nope no luck
2023-09-20T17:22:36 < Laurence_b> I suspect memory is getting corrupted
2023-09-20T17:26:47 < qyx> what does ldd say
2023-09-20T17:26:54 < qyx> ldd temperature
2023-09-20T17:29:09 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/X3WsZSKZ
2023-09-20T17:32:44 < qyx> hm that's the wrong one, the lib dependency is resolved but it says nothing about the symbols
2023-09-20T17:32:47 < qyx> meh, google helsp
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2023-09-20T17:35:13 < Laurence_b> I've spotted some issues in the code, will fix them then recompile - the error if after the code with the issues
2023-09-20T17:45:36 < zyp> huh, the current sense stuff on this motor drive pmod seems wildly inaccurate
2023-09-20T17:47:13 < zyp> I've got a simple inductor+resistor dummy load between the two measured phases, and I'm driving it with a plain 50% duty pwm, and I get this shit back: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wPrdp.png
2023-09-20T17:48:08 < qyx> maybe some aliasing shit?
2023-09-20T17:48:20 < qyx> looks whiteish though
2023-09-20T17:49:10 < zyp> not worried about the noise, the issue is that the gain is so wildly different
2023-09-20T17:49:46 < qyx> is your pwm freq an integer multiple of 1 kHz sampling?
2023-09-20T17:49:54 < zyp> I'm effectively measuring on both sides of the dummy load, so they should be equally large with opposite signs
2023-09-20T17:50:36 < qyx> lack of filtering + sampling phase offset could cause apparent gain errors?
2023-09-20T17:51:33 < zyp> hmm
2023-09-20T17:52:04 < zyp> pwm freq should be 585.9375 kHz
2023-09-20T17:52:21 < qyx> doesn't look like an integer
2023-09-20T17:52:25 < zyp> don't remember what actual ADC sample rate is
2023-09-20T17:52:30 < zyp> it's 75MHz/127
2023-09-20T17:52:38 < zyp> 128 I mean
2023-09-20T17:52:38 < qyx> the picture says 1 kHz
2023-09-20T17:52:49 < zyp> yeah, that's linuxcnc pulling data from the FPGA
2023-09-20T17:56:08 < zyp> oh, sample rate is 75MHz/64, and the two channels are interleaved on one fpga, so one is always sampled during the on period and one is always sampled during the off period
2023-09-20T17:57:43 < qyx> heh
2023-09-20T17:58:20 < zyp> one adc, I mean
2023-09-20T18:03:12 < zyp> still, scope doesn't show the current varying that much between on/off periods
2023-09-20T18:03:15 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FfMHB.png
2023-09-20T18:03:38 < Laurence_b> ok wut
2023-09-20T18:03:42 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/80sg897v
2023-09-20T18:04:12 < Laurence_b> https://pastebin.com/eu4iG4bF
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2023-09-20T18:10:37 < Laurence_b> malloc returns inaccessible memory?
2023-09-20T18:12:30 < Laurence_b> address seems way too low?
2023-09-20T18:12:31 < PaulFertser> Laurence_b: valgrind to the rescue
2023-09-20T18:12:43 < Laurence_b> ok
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2023-09-20T18:19:45 < Laurence_b> oh - !(*meas) thinks its got a function pointer
2023-09-20T18:24:46 < Laurence_b> wait wut
2023-09-20T18:24:50 < Laurence_b>  Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
2023-09-20T18:24:50 < Laurence_b> ==20529==    at 0x11840: create_structures (temperature.c:243)
2023-09-20T18:24:51 < Laurence_b> ==20529==    by 0x139EF: main (temperature.c:695)
2023-09-20T18:25:13 < Laurence_b> how do I even brogram
2023-09-20T18:27:56 < mawk> lol
2023-09-20T18:29:36 < mawk> meas is not a function pointer it's just a pointer
2023-09-20T18:29:43 < mawk> but if gdb doesn't understand the type just cast it
2023-09-20T18:31:15 < Laurence_b> is it an actual error or not?
2023-09-20T18:32:59 < Laurence_b> wtf is going on
2023-09-20T18:33:13 < Laurence_b> ==20529== Process terminating with default action of signal 11 (SIGSEGV)
2023-09-20T18:33:14 < Laurence_b> ==20529==  Access not within mapped region at address 0x6D
2023-09-20T18:33:14 < Laurence_b> ==20529==    at 0x4860124: ??? (in /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libarmmem-v7l.so)
2023-09-20T18:33:15 < Laurence_b> ==20529==  If you believe this happened as a result of a stack
2023-09-20T18:33:58 < Laurence_b> that address is too low right?
2023-09-20T18:34:51 < ventYl> you can check memory regions of said process in /proc/<pid>/memmap or something like that
2023-09-20T18:35:05 < Laurence_b> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/610444/the-structure-of-the-virtual-memory-of-a-linux-process
2023-09-20T18:35:09 < ventYl> but first page usually is not mapped unless done explicitly
2023-09-20T18:35:26 < ventYl> to catch stuff such as null pointer dereference
2023-09-20T18:35:26 < Laurence_b> 0x6D seems very low
2023-09-20T18:36:12 < ventYl> That "Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)" usually is a real error, but it might have neglible impact
2023-09-20T18:36:22 < ventYl> yet still worth of fixing by initializing said value
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2023-09-20T18:43:40 < Laurence_b> hmm think I found the error - uninitialized variables
2023-09-20T18:50:23 < Laurence_b> yeah it "runs" - quits as the hardware doesnt exist, but thats a good thing
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--- Day changed to syys 21 2023
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2023-09-21T02:07:13 < fenugrec> hello stm32, what's new
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2023-09-21T05:12:54 < machinehum> Nothing
2023-09-21T05:12:59 < machinehum> I'm bidding on a blockchain jbo
2023-09-21T05:13:01 < machinehum> job
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2023-09-21T10:52:27 < Steffanx> How much is your soul worth machinehum ?
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2023-09-21T11:14:38 < mawk> for which n is n/(20-n) a perfect square ?
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2023-09-21T12:02:13 < zyp> 0, 10 16, 18
2023-09-21T12:09:06 < ventYl> *0*
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2023-09-21T12:54:08 < mawk> yes zyp 
2023-09-21T12:54:12 < mawk> how did you find them
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2023-09-21T13:30:01 < Steffanx> He just copied your python one liner
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2023-09-21T20:46:46 < PhantomWork> Hi there, small question about RTC and interrupt and stuff... So I want to print timestamp. What is the best practice to ensure than I don't have issues from reading the variables and midway the interrupt change the values and screw everything up? I somehow don't think that a disable interrupt, copy, then reenable is viable for each printf... any
2023-09-21T20:46:47 < PhantomWork> other better way?
2023-09-21T20:54:50 < fenugrec> PhantomWork, your device's ref manual should explain that
2023-09-21T20:57:31 < PhantomWork> didn't saw anything about this, which of the badly made documents should I recheck and what keywords? it's for the stm32f103
2023-09-21T20:57:32 < fenugrec> int disable has no effect on RTC clock source.
2023-09-21T20:57:46 < fenugrec> reference manual, RTC chapter.
2023-09-21T20:58:53 < PhantomWork> and I saw nothing about that
2023-09-21T20:59:03 < specing> PhantomWork: you can keep reading until two read-outs match. Which you should probably do even in no interrupts case, as a value could be updated by RTC while reading others
2023-09-21T20:59:22 < fenugrec> ^
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2023-09-21T20:59:47 < fenugrec> and try a maximum of 3 times in case peripheral is returning random / corrupt vals
2023-09-21T20:59:51 < specing> Perhaps your device's RTC does some buffering of those regs, but 103 is ancient so prolly not
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2023-09-21T21:02:08 < PhantomWork> so no real clean way...
2023-09-21T21:03:48 < specing> fenugrec: appnode says 3 tiems yup
2023-09-21T21:05:03 < specing> PhantomWork: https://x0.at/F0Ts.png
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2023-09-21T21:08:15 < nomorekaki> 90s pc gamers here?
2023-09-21T21:08:48 < nomorekaki> (gaymed pc games in 90s)
2023-09-21T21:10:44 < PhantomWork> specing: hmmm    will check more...
2023-09-21T21:13:51 < machinehum> Steffanx: like 100 grand
2023-09-21T21:16:33 < Steffanx> Prince of Persia forever nomorekaki 
2023-09-21T21:19:34 < nomorekaki> *nod* apparently it had impressive animations for the time
2023-09-21T21:19:41 < nomorekaki> 1989
2023-09-21T21:19:42 < fenugrec> Port 220, IRQ7, DMA0 is etched in my brain forever
2023-09-21T21:19:54 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: what else
2023-09-21T21:20:03 < Steffanx> You want the list?
2023-09-21T21:21:06 < Steffanx> Stunts, grand prix 2, command and conquer, karataka, Hocus pocus, doom, duke nukem, and a lot more I probably forgot about
2023-09-21T21:21:20 < fenugrec> descent
2023-09-21T21:21:21 < nomorekaki> I had grand prix
2023-09-21T21:21:46 < Steffanx> Yeah that one too fenugrec 
2023-09-21T21:22:01 < Steffanx> Super goose (or something)
2023-09-21T21:22:26 < Steffanx> F19 flight simulator 
2023-09-21T21:22:48 < Steffanx> Or star goose it was called 
2023-09-21T21:23:34 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDxssLBC_tQ how about this?
2023-09-21T21:23:39 < Steffanx> But I also played a lot of 90s in the 2000s does that count as 90s gamer?
2023-09-21T21:24:24 < Steffanx> Doesn't look familiar, but I did play similar games
2023-09-21T21:25:06 < nomorekaki> how about post-dos era steff? did you stay in dos realm?
2023-09-21T21:25:23 < nomorekaki> 95-
2023-09-21T21:25:32 < Steffanx> For some reason Rayman was my all time favorite 
2023-09-21T21:25:57 < nomorekaki> we played that on school backroom computer
2023-09-21T21:26:12 < nomorekaki> and jazz.exe
2023-09-21T21:26:14 < Steffanx> Current games can be fun, but are nothing compared to 90s maybe early 2000s games
2023-09-21T21:26:32 < Steffanx> Yeah, jazz jack rabbit in class :D
2023-09-21T21:26:44 < nomorekaki> backroom computer
2023-09-21T21:27:11 < Steffanx> Thor God of Thunder was hard.
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2023-09-21T21:27:43 < Steffanx> So was prince of Persia though. Finishing the entire game in under 60 minutes without cheats
2023-09-21T21:28:29 < nomorekaki> also found c64 from basement and connected it to tv in backroom but couldnt make it to load and just doing quick internet search wasn't a thing yet
2023-09-21T21:32:09 < Steffanx> Leisure Suit Larry was your favorite I bet, nomorekaki 
2023-09-21T21:33:22 < nomorekaki> friend had those at his pc but I didn't really get the idea of those
2023-09-21T21:36:01 < nomorekaki> steff: so did you PC gaym windows games?
2023-09-21T21:38:04 < nomorekaki> how about windows 3.x gayms?
2023-09-21T21:42:58 < Steffanx> I didn't know much about gayms back then. I was young and innocent 
2023-09-21T21:44:19 < Steffanx> Ofcourse nomorekaki. Windows 3.11 only I think
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2023-09-21T21:44:30 < Steffanx> Bye
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2023-09-21T21:44:44 < nomorekaki> you didnt gaym in win95 and 98 then?
2023-09-21T21:46:43 < Steffanx> I never had 98 I think, only 95. 
2023-09-21T21:47:04 < Steffanx> Then XP.
2023-09-21T21:47:21 < nomorekaki> I had another way around
2023-09-21T21:47:31 < nomorekaki> 3.11, 98, xp
2023-09-21T21:51:15 < Steffanx> Vista after that ofcourse 
2023-09-21T21:53:03 < nomorekaki> no
2023-09-21T21:53:08 < nomorekaki> xp -> 7
2023-09-21T21:53:14 < nomorekaki> 7 -> 10
2023-09-21T21:54:16 < qyx> 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, lunix
2023-09-21T21:54:48 < qyx> I didn't really use 2000, it was on dad's work computer
2023-09-21T21:55:03 < qyx> I used 98 on his old one, then lunix
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2023-09-21T22:15:56 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: unreal tournament?
2023-09-21T22:16:02 < Steffanx> nope
2023-09-21T22:16:05 < Steffanx> no quake either
2023-09-21T22:16:08 < Steffanx> no half life
2023-09-21T22:16:16 < nomorekaki> no cs1.6?
2023-09-21T22:16:22 < Steffanx> nope
2023-09-21T22:16:31 < nomorekaki> what were you doing?
2023-09-21T22:16:48 < Steffanx> played  True Combat Elite  instead
2023-09-21T22:16:55 < Steffanx> and C&C series
2023-09-21T22:17:21 < nomorekaki> any GTA?
2023-09-21T22:17:44 < nomorekaki> I played TC:E until it died
2023-09-21T22:18:15 < nomorekaki> kind of poor mans CS that wasn't CS at all but ET with different skins at first
2023-09-21T22:19:11 < nomorekaki> idk if CS source or what killed it
2023-09-21T22:19:24 < nomorekaki> suddenly just no gayms no players
2023-09-21T22:19:26 < Steffanx> When did TC:E die for you nomorekaki ?
2023-09-21T22:19:52 < nomorekaki> when active player count was not enough to have a game at any time
2023-09-21T22:19:57 < nomorekaki> or ever
2023-09-21T22:20:12 < Steffanx> What was your nickname?
2023-09-21T22:20:52 < ventYl> mine was dos / 3.1, 98se then linux
2023-09-21T22:21:27 < Steffanx> because if you really did play it till "the end" i must have met you there nomorekaki
2023-09-21T22:21:44 < nomorekaki> crazy
2023-09-21T22:22:00 < Steffanx> Any clan tag?
2023-09-21T22:22:03 < nomorekaki> no
2023-09-21T22:22:10 < PaulFertser> "A special PBM or Play by Mail mode was introduced in F1GP. Players would choose one of the drivers for the particular race and when their turn was up save the game onto floppy disk. The disk would then be sent via second class mail to other participants in the event to continue with their turn."
2023-09-21T22:22:39 < nomorekaki> 8)
2023-09-21T22:22:57 < ventYl> Sid Meier's Alpha Centrauri had multiplayer via e-mail mode in 2001
2023-09-21T22:23:17 < Steffanx> Doesnt ring a bell immediatly nomorekaki . Do "hohol" or "nobody" ring a bell there?
2023-09-21T22:23:40 < nomorekaki> no
2023-09-21T22:24:02 < Steffanx> Then you didnt play till the end, because this last guy was really the last one to join servers :P
2023-09-21T22:24:51 < nomorekaki> I remember there was just 1-5 players at any given time
2023-09-21T22:25:32 < Steffanx> Yeah later it was just.. in europe evenings.
2023-09-21T22:26:48 < Steffanx> Anyway, TCE wasnt a poor mans CS. it was better :P
2023-09-21T22:26:56 < nomorekaki> certainly
2023-09-21T22:27:17 < nomorekaki> I think CS was at that time just ruined by haxors
2023-09-21T22:28:25 < nomorekaki> I dont recall even comprehending what hacking or "coding" was at the time playing TC:E as I had never experienced such games
2023-09-21T22:30:03 < nomorekaki> meanwhile all the CS players I knew always talked about "codes"
2023-09-21T22:31:05 < Steffanx> was mr nomorekaki an Objective or Bodycount player?
2023-09-21T22:33:46 < nomorekaki> obj
2023-09-21T22:44:44 < nomorekaki> have you had FPS urges since?
2023-09-21T22:45:04 < nomorekaki> relapces
2023-09-21T22:45:36 < nomorekaki> see if TC:E has any new players?
2023-09-21T22:53:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: were you a hohol?
2023-09-21T22:53:51 < Steffanx> lol no
2023-09-21T22:54:12 < nomorekaki> I feel bad for the last guy
2023-09-21T22:56:02 < nomorekaki> just every day in lobby looking for players on servers to change from 0/10 to 1/10
2023-09-21T22:56:13 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: there was a player with that name and its the most memorable player of the game. 
2023-09-21T22:56:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: was he really from Ukraine?
2023-09-21T22:56:59 < Steffanx> Played for years, never said a word and was extremely predicable. was funny. Almost like it was a bot, but it wasn't.
2023-09-21T22:57:10 < nomorekaki> idk of chatting was a thing
2023-09-21T22:57:15 < Steffanx> it was
2023-09-21T23:01:24 < nomorekaki> we play an obj gaym some day steff?
2023-09-21T23:01:32 < nomorekaki> ah now I remember
2023-09-21T23:01:52 < nomorekaki> I had linux and 900mhz p3
2023-09-21T23:02:01 < Steffanx> maybe. There's a discord for it nowadays nomorekaki .
2023-09-21T23:02:07 < nomorekaki> what
2023-09-21T23:02:49 < nomorekaki> somebody is gayming TC:E enough to make a discord server for it?
2023-09-21T23:02:49 < Steffanx> last 2 vs 3 game was on 12-06-2023 00:59 apparently 
2023-09-21T23:04:52 < Steffanx> absolutely nomorekaki 
2023-09-21T23:04:58 < nomorekaki> so I had linux and FPS options were almost solely quake based
2023-09-21T23:05:08 < nomorekaki> and there I found TC:E
2023-09-21T23:05:23 < ventYl> apparently, stating full lenght of bicycle in its specs is not interesting for bike manufacturers
2023-09-21T23:05:26 < ventYl> fucking industry
2023-09-21T23:05:51 < nomorekaki> you need that full lenght for what?
2023-09-21T23:05:58 < Steffanx> to see if it fits in the shed
2023-09-21T23:06:04 < ventYl> if it will fit into car
2023-09-21T23:06:04 < Steffanx> check
2023-09-21T23:07:27 < nomorekaki> can you imagine my carro doesn't have folding back seats
2023-09-21T23:07:42 < ventYl> it wasn't a thing in '90s
2023-09-21T23:08:04 < nomorekaki> but it's later half of 2000s
2023-09-21T23:08:05 < ventYl> brother's toyota has fixed back seats too
2023-09-21T23:08:19 < ventYl> and it's MY97 or something like that
2023-09-21T23:08:50 < ventYl> honda probably has folding seats only because officially it is MPV
2023-09-21T23:09:01 < PaulFertser> But with quick release it's a no-brainer to dismount a wheel before putting it in.
2023-09-21T23:09:49 < ventYl> PaulFertser: not so much with disc brakes, you might have shenanigans with brake pads
2023-09-21T23:10:07 < PaulFertser> ventYl: do not push the lever without wheel :)
2023-09-21T23:10:54 < PaulFertser> Or keep a piece of plastic handy to snap there in place of the disk.
2023-09-21T23:11:22 < ventYl> I probably still have the original brake pad blockers that came in calipers around
2023-09-21T23:11:29 < nomorekaki> ventYl: I have had no problems with shimano hydraulic brakes
2023-09-21T23:12:21 < nomorekaki> just slide wheel back in.. maybe align disc and use the disc to make room between pads
2023-09-21T23:12:40 < PaulFertser> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2151605
2023-09-21T23:13:05 < nomorekaki> you can also make the handlebar to tilt 90degrees
2023-09-21T23:13:33 < nomorekaki> have raiser or something that has hinge
2023-09-21T23:13:45 < PaulFertser> Yeah, brakes in proper condition should allow to push in the pistons easily without bending the disk.
2023-09-21T23:14:07 < PaulFertser> Probably almost.
2023-09-21T23:14:17 < ventYl> unless pushing one piston in won't cause other to pop out
2023-09-21T23:14:23 < ventYl> as usually happens with pistons on my bike
2023-09-21T23:14:26 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: did you play in that game in june?
2023-09-21T23:14:45 < Steffanx> unlikely
2023-09-21T23:15:14 < PaulFertser> ventYl: what kaki suggests pushes both at the same time afaict.
2023-09-21T23:16:11 < PaulFertser> Better 3d print a spacer.
2023-09-21T23:16:51 < ventYl> nah, whatever
2023-09-21T23:16:56 < ventYl> will do fit check
2023-09-21T23:19:17 < PaulFertser> Are you going to get a 29er?
2023-09-21T23:23:14 < ventYl> I somehow hoped that I can figure out if my old bike gets into my new-ish car without taking the bike out of the garage
2023-09-21T23:23:30 < ventYl> no, bicykle industry is a band of morons
2023-09-21T23:23:35 < ventYl> *bicycle
2023-09-21T23:24:05 < ventYl> to be fair, they would look like morons in my eyes even if they stated full length of the bike
2023-09-21T23:24:22 < ventYl> as they routinely fail to state mounting dimensions and mount types
2023-09-21T23:24:24 < PaulFertser> Compared to the horrors you can find on Sheldon's web site it's rather looking like being constantly improving and converging to sane standards over the years.
2023-09-21T23:24:48 < ventYl> i don't know what is Sheldon's site
2023-09-21T23:25:11 < PaulFertser> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/
2023-09-21T23:27:09 < ventYl> never saw it
2023-09-21T23:27:35 < ventYl> but yeah, most of bicycle equipment is pure horror from engineering point of view
2023-09-21T23:28:08 < ventYl> there's probably no other consumer goods made using such bad engineering decisions
2023-09-21T23:28:10 < PaulFertser> This web site is like the best encyclopedia about all the bicycle mechanics topics.
2023-09-21T23:30:19 < ventYl> heh, it is missing the first and second term I tried to find there
2023-09-21T23:31:56 < ventYl> ah it deals with road bikes mostly
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2023-09-21T23:34:09 < PaulFertser> Probably you're using a different terminology?
2023-09-21T23:36:07 < ventYl> IS, post-mount and Trunnion are pretty much standard terms
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2023-09-21T23:45:22 < PaulFertser> ventYl: I have to agree, it's kind of outdated and has much more information about the road bicycles.
2023-09-21T23:46:24 < ventYl> which is sad, because even stuff such as I.S. is outdated
2023-09-21T23:46:43 < ventYl> maybe even PM, but I don't have *that* recent bike
2023-09-21T23:56:30 < karlp> ventYl: my discs have always had magnets on them, yu're not losing pads when you take then wheel off...
2023-09-21T23:59:46 < ventYl> karlp: not losing, but they can either shift around the caliper, so it may take some time to put disc rotor back in, or you might accidentally/due to things shifting in car push brake lever compressing pads together
--- Day changed pe syys 22 2023
2023-09-22T00:04:35 < karlp> oh dear?
2023-09-22T00:05:00 < fenugrec> I have taken the front wheel on and off my MTB with disc brakes dozens and dozens of times over the last $many_years without problem
2023-09-22T00:06:35 < ventYl> i am regularly fighting with brake pads
2023-09-22T00:07:42 < fenugrec> interesting. Different design no doubt
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2023-09-22T00:11:38 < nomorekaki10> something wrong with reservour
2023-09-22T00:12:00 < nomorekaki10> I wonder if it has bladder like motorcycle reservour
2023-09-22T00:12:24 < nomorekaki10> or maybe seal rings have bind to them
2023-09-22T00:16:08 < nomorekaki10> or discs have lip or very sharp edge
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2023-09-22T00:35:04 < nomorekaki> or that thin metal sheet thing that comes with pads
2023-09-22T00:35:13 < nomorekaki> is not installed propperly or at all
2023-09-22T00:35:36 < nomorekaki> the spring
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2023-09-22T00:57:29 < qyx> I am curious how a thin metal gengre sounds
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2023-09-22T01:07:57 < Steffanx> Genre?
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2023-09-22T01:34:46 < nomorekaki> light metal or soft metal qyx?
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2023-09-22T09:35:12 < qyx> TIL ctrl+1 applies the first heading style in libreoffice
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2023-09-22T10:57:08 < qyx> nomorekaki: no, you said thin metal
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2023-09-22T13:18:30 < karlp> hrm, ack has shortcuts for cpp, and for "cc" but not one that includes both c and c++ files together.
2023-09-22T13:19:31 < karlp> but dont worry, the cc shortcut includes .xs files for when yhou're searching the c code of your perl extensions.
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2023-09-22T14:13:48 < BrainDamage> ack the old perl search thingy?
2023-09-22T15:11:51 < karlp> I guess, yeah, it's nicer than grep -r, and I haven't moved to anything newer and cooler
2023-09-22T15:12:04 < karlp> but it annoys me a bit searching mixed c/c++ codebases.
2023-09-22T15:15:49 < jpa-> can't you add custom one?
2023-09-22T15:17:02 < karlp> probably, I really should just tell it to ignore listing files and some other build outputs, and just let it search everything.
2023-09-22T15:17:14 < karlp> or, stop working with "matter" :)
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2023-09-22T15:32:00 < jpa-> git grep is quite nice also
2023-09-22T15:34:51 < zyp> the issue with git grep is that once you're used to it, it's frustrating to grep through stuff that's not in git
2023-09-22T15:38:23 < karlp> git init . :)
2023-09-22T15:49:41 < jpa-> hmm, i'm having trouble getting STM32F417 working with KZ8081RNA eth phy
2023-09-22T15:50:08 < jpa-> it should initialize to phyaddr 0, but every phy register read is returning 0xFFFF
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2023-09-22T15:52:45 < jpa-> scanned all phy addrs, all give 0xFFFF so at least it is not about strapping
2023-09-22T15:52:59 < jpa-> clocks seem ok, feeding 25 MHz to PHY and it is giving 50 MHz back
2023-09-22T15:54:10 < jpa-> i assume the phy regs go through MDC/MDIO? time to probe those
2023-09-22T15:54:14 < zyp> did you swap mdio and mdc or otherwise fuck up hooking them up?
2023-09-22T15:54:24 < zyp> and yeah, they do
2023-09-22T15:54:32 < zyp> it's kinda similar to I2C, but push pull
2023-09-22T16:02:47 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/eth_mdio.png  no answer indeed
2023-09-22T16:04:48 < jpa-> the PHY itself seems to be working because CSR_DV goes high when it receives packets
2023-09-22T16:05:51 < zyp> which variant is this? KSZ8081RNACA?
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2023-09-22T16:06:51 < zyp> hmm, looks like I lied about MDIO being push-pull, datasheet says open drain
2023-09-22T16:07:26 < jpa-> KSZ8081RNAIA
2023-09-22T16:07:54 < jpa-> i noticed that i don't have the datasheet recommended 1kohm pull-up; enabling STM32 internal pull-up didn't make difference though, and it is staying high not low
2023-09-22T16:08:05 < jpa-> i wonder if the STM32 pin should be configured as open drain?
2023-09-22T16:08:18 < jpa-> nuttx defaults to pushpull for it
2023-09-22T16:08:21 < zyp> possible, might be forcing the bus high
2023-09-22T16:08:28 < zyp> I've made that mistake on i2c before
2023-09-22T16:11:58 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/eth_mdio_scope.png  seems to be releasing correctly in alt pushpull mode, though i wonder if the rise time could be issue
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2023-09-22T16:13:12 < zyp> time to ghetto a stronger pullup on it
2023-09-22T16:15:03 < jpa-> i guess
2023-09-22T16:20:07 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/eth_mdio_scope_1k_pullup.png   rises faster but still no response
2023-09-22T16:21:00 < zyp> by now you've checked that you hooked them up to the right pins and that the solder joints look good, right?
2023-09-22T16:26:45 < jpa-> yeah
2023-09-22T16:27:32 < jpa-> i'm also giving a reset pulse to the PHY, so shouldn't be a power-up issue either
2023-09-22T16:32:07 < jpa-> could try another proto, but they have the STM32 wrong way around (by aisler) so can't bother today :D
2023-09-22T16:33:46 < jpa-> aha, For the KSZ8081RNA/RND, PHY
2023-09-22T16:33:46 < jpa-> address 0h defaults to the broadcast PHY address after power-up, but PHY address 0h can be disabled as the broadcast
2023-09-22T16:33:47 < jpa-> PHY address using software to assign it as a unique PHY address.
2023-09-22T16:41:35 < jpa-> hmm, that still shouldn't matter
2023-09-22T16:45:09 < jpa-> and strapping to addr 3 makes no difference either
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2023-09-22T19:49:23 < nomorekaki> qyx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_genres
2023-09-22T19:50:29 < nomorekaki> some quick read about probably not all metal genres invented
2023-09-22T19:52:30 < nomorekaki> probs every other garage band is experimenting their own fusion
2023-09-22T20:05:06 < jpa-> hmh, second prototype works; tried giving the phy some hot air, but still doesn't work
2023-09-22T20:05:14 < jpa-> i guess i'll have to order some chips and see
2023-09-22T20:06:40 < jpa-> oh, i actually have an extra one.. time to hotair it in
2023-09-22T20:16:35 < jpa-> ... it was a soldering problem on the STM32
2023-09-22T20:26:42 < jpa-> and now i had a solder problem on the phy i just resoldered
2023-09-22T20:26:54 < jpa-> i think i might need some practice
2023-09-22T20:28:04 < jpa-> but it works now; next week i can start figuring out PTP
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2023-09-22T21:02:46 < machinehum> What stencil thickness do you guys normally go for?
2023-09-22T21:02:48 < machinehum> 0.2mm?
2023-09-22T21:02:53 < machinehum> Sorry 0.1mm*
2023-09-22T21:03:03 < machinehum> 0.12?
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--- Day changed la syys 23 2023
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2023-09-23T02:02:25 < ColdKeyboard> Is there some standard library/way of using RS485 communication bus when you have single master, multiple slaves and slaves can not start communication without the help of master. How to address each node if they don't have a "fixed" address yet?
2023-09-23T02:03:21 < ColdKeyboard> I think I have all the pieces working but one thing that I do is at the beginning, new nodes don't have an assigned address on the bus, so I would need to be able to talk to device that has no address yet, and assign a new one to it.
2023-09-23T02:04:03 < ColdKeyboard> I'm not sure if there has to be collision detection or there is a different way to achieve this
2023-09-23T02:04:49 < ColdKeyboard> Basically with I2C, CAN etc. if two nodes try to transmitt at the same time, they can figure out that there is a collision and stop further transmission
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2023-09-23T02:58:59 < zyp> talking *to* unaddressed nodes is easy, the hard part is having them talk back without colliding
2023-09-23T03:02:52 < zyp> you either need a way for the nodes to distinguish whether they're being talked to or a way to deal with the fact that multiple nodes may reply when they can't distinguish that
2023-09-23T03:04:05 < zyp> one solution I've seen is having an extra out of band signal that's used for enumeration
2023-09-23T03:04:32 < zyp> between each node, not shared
2023-09-23T03:05:54 < zyp> master sets it high and sends «assign address x to next node», the node that sees the signal high takes the address, ACKs and sets its output signal high
2023-09-23T03:06:04 < zyp> and so it continues until there's no more ACKs
2023-09-23T03:07:18 < zyp> if it's okay for address assignment to require user intervention, you could use a pushbutton or similar instead
2023-09-23T03:07:40 < zyp> especially if the user cares about the order stuff gets detected
2023-09-23T03:09:29 < zyp> otherwise you could do a collision avoidance scheme, where each node adds a random delay before replying, and aborts if it detects a faster node
2023-09-23T03:10:13 < zyp> easier to recover from when collisions don't necessarily produce a deterministic state, unlike CAN
2023-09-23T03:13:05 < zyp> or you could do a binary search scheme, where all nodes have a large random/unique ID, and you repeatedly query «are there any unenumerated node with ID < x left?», and nodes that match respond 0x00, while the rest shut up
2023-09-23T03:14:22 < zyp> or they could respond with a break token even
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2023-09-23T04:02:40 < catphish> can you not use a combination of collision detection and a random delay to assign addresses and respond
2023-09-23T04:02:49 < catphish> oh, zyp just said exactly that
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2023-09-23T04:09:17 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks zyp
2023-09-23T04:09:40 < ColdKeyboard> I have to keep the physical setup simple so there are only 4 wires, two for power and 2 for RS485
2023-09-23T04:10:29 < ColdKeyboard> The master can detect collision event which is nice. I guess it could wait for end of transmission / IDLE state of the bus and then notify that there was a collision and ask for re-send
2023-09-23T04:10:55 < ColdKeyboard> Then each node can use random delay. And on top of that, each node monitors the line before sending so if it sees activity it will back off...
2023-09-23T04:11:08 < ColdKeyboard> I think something like this is used in first ALOHA protocol
2023-09-23T04:11:26 < ColdKeyboard> But I was wondering if there are some other schemes or recommendations on how to implement this.
2023-09-23T04:13:19 < ColdKeyboard> Binary search also sounds interesting, but I guess it doesn't really prevent collision and I'm not sure if it reduces the probbaility of it. On the first thought it seems like it might
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2023-09-23T08:33:30 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: if your slaves have internal unique ID (e.g. STM32s do), you can do 1-wire style ID discovery by having the slaves respond with a 0 pulse without driving 1 (switch off TX enable after the bit)
2023-09-23T08:33:59 < jpa-> e.g. send broadcast command "Does anyone have ID bit 0 = 1?" and if you get any reply, you know someone does; then walk down the tree
2023-09-23T08:34:14 < jpa-> and finally start commanding "Device with ID 123456789 assign short address 1"
2023-09-23T09:55:38 < qyx> yes
2023-09-23T09:56:28 < qyx> I mean jpa is right but it requires "special support" from your UART driver code (setting the transceiver to high-Z state)
2023-09-23T09:57:01 < qyx> or, alternatively, if you can tolerate a bit of collision, use a break signal
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2023-09-23T11:22:22 < ventYl> jpa-: and then dallas will tear your pants off you due to patent infridgement :)
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2023-09-23T12:48:47 < zyp> jpa-, that's what I were thinking of when I mentioned binary search and break tokens
2023-09-23T13:24:56 < qyx> let's do the first 10base-t1s design
2023-09-23T13:26:12 < qyx> it is not that hard as there are only 6 devices in stock at mouser in the "10base-t1s" search
2023-09-23T13:26:54 < qyx> 3 are LAN867x with MII/RMII, that's not suitable for end devices
2023-09-23T13:27:23 < qyx> so we have LAN8650/1 and NCN26010
2023-09-23T13:34:28 < qyx> ok NCN is lower power consumption
2023-09-23T13:35:45 < jpa-> ventYl: fortunately 1wire patents are expired already
2023-09-23T13:36:54 < qyx> when did that happen?
2023-09-23T13:37:18 < qyx> 2016-06-29
2023-09-23T13:37:19 < qyx> Anticipated expiration
2023-09-23T13:40:52 < jpa-> zyp: you had so many ideas that i didn't catch them all :)
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2023-09-23T15:04:36 < karlp> (you can also just.... cross your fingers.  we shipped it for years and had _occasional_ collisions, and it didn't matter, installers switched them out)
2023-09-23T15:04:50 < karlp> (we just crc'd the uniqueid down to one byte, and called it good.
2023-09-23T15:05:01 < karlp> single unit load rs485 only allows 32 units anyway.
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2023-09-23T15:16:46 < Steffanx> Heh
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2023-09-23T15:53:01 < ventYl> jpa-: I've read that Maxim is still trying to make troubles, but those articles coule be from 2016 or older
2023-09-23T15:59:39 < qyx> maxim has ceased to exist
2023-09-23T16:00:17 < ventYl> oh, I believe, that whoever annihilated it still retains the old habits as they believe they can make money out of it
2023-09-23T16:01:24 < jpa-> yeah, i guess you can avoid binary trees just in case they have a habit of trying to sue for expired patents ;)
2023-09-23T16:04:28 < karlp> if you're going to do 1wire shit, I'd avoid using the raw uniqueid, it has too many bits that aren't unique.
2023-09-23T16:04:43 < karlp> especially if you would expect to have a bunch of units made at the same time be on the wire at the same time.
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2023-09-23T16:06:48 < jpa-> does it matter? with N bit unique id it will always take N roundtrips per discovered device, no matter which bits differ and which don't
2023-09-23T16:06:59 < karlp> nah, I mean crc down to say 32bits... :)
2023-09-23T16:07:03 < karlp> it will still be unique :)
2023-09-23T16:07:04 < jpa-> YOLO :)
2023-09-23T16:07:16 < jpa-> well, as long as you have less than 64k devices
2023-09-23T16:07:25 < karlp> on the same wire....  :)
2023-09-23T16:07:38 < karlp> but sure, if you're doing a one wire, might as well just do the whole 96 I guess..
2023-09-23T16:08:17 < karlp> apparentl I don't have a longer breadboard, only a couple of small ones.  this proto is going to get ugly fast I guess.
2023-09-23T16:09:36 < jpa-> for devices without unique id, doing CRC32 of uninitialized RAM, plus some high-freq timer stuff could be a reasonable way
2023-09-23T16:10:04 < karlp> don't buy devices without unique ids... :)
2023-09-23T16:10:26 < jpa-> it may be somewhat useless also to be able to communicate with devices individually if you don't know which device is which :)
2023-09-23T16:12:28 < qyx> my current bus I am using has a "long id", which is usually a public key, "short id" which is stm32 unique id hashed to 32 bits and a "id" which is short id hashed to 16 bit
2023-09-23T16:12:38 < qyx> which is used to communicate
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2023-09-23T18:12:23 < zyp> I figure a recursive binary search will be faster if you have a bunch of devices with a common prefix than the same number of devices with a truly random ID
2023-09-23T18:13:45 < zyp> it'll discover the prefix first, then all the devices under that prefix, then return back up and discover there's no devices left
2023-09-23T18:22:21 < zyp> assuming you're resuming from the current state after finding a device, and not starting over
2023-09-23T18:22:47 < zyp> I figure you could do something like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Fq4uJ
2023-09-23T19:02:02 < zyp> what's the cheapest ethernet capable stm32 nowadays? (excluding f107)
2023-09-23T19:02:14 < zyp> still h730 or whatever it was?
2023-09-23T19:03:30 < jpa-> appears so
2023-09-23T19:07:29 < jpa-> lcsc has STM32F407 also pretty cheap, though that's only a step up from F107
2023-09-23T19:22:12 < zyp> hmm, $3.86 for f407 vs $15.29 for h730 at jlc
2023-09-23T19:22:51 < zyp> and $2.95 for f107, just for the record
2023-09-23T19:23:21 < zyp> maybe I should just do f407 then, I've got a couple existing f407 designs I could just copypaste from
2023-09-23T19:24:27 < zyp> jpa-, did you figure out the MDIO?
2023-09-23T19:24:49 < zyp> the designs I'll be copypasting also got KSZ8081RNA
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2023-09-23T19:59:26 < zyp> hrm, altium 23 installer complains my windows is too old
2023-09-23T20:00:22 < zyp> was thinking I should finally upgrade from altium 15
2023-09-23T20:33:01 < qyx> I have some designs wih f107 and ksz8081rna too
2023-09-23T20:33:06 < qyx> none with f407
2023-09-23T20:36:13 < zyp> know of any 10/100 poe magjacks available at jlc?
2023-09-23T20:42:48 < qyx> nope
2023-09-23T20:48:55 < zyp> the search sucks pretty bad, kinda impossible to find the right magjack
2023-09-23T20:50:02 < zyp> last time I had to look through a ton of shit before I found a suitable magjack for voltage mode gigabit, and that was not even PoE
2023-09-23T20:50:16 < zyp> this time I don't need gigabit, but I need PoE
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2023-09-23T21:20:48 < aandrew> heh
2023-09-23T21:20:56 < aandrew> I still run AD17 in a win7 vm
2023-09-23T21:21:12 < zyp> yeah, that's what I got my AD15 installation in
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2023-09-23T21:55:16 < qyx> hm, still no proper connectors for 802.3cg
2023-09-23T21:56:55 < qyx> T1S doesn't define PODL
2023-09-23T22:38:59 < jpa-> zyp: yeah it was a soldering problem on the STM32
2023-09-23T22:39:41 < jpa-> and it doesn't need the 1kohm MDIO pull-up either
2023-09-23T22:39:51 < jpa-> (STM32 internal 50k is enough)
2023-09-23T22:44:49 < zyp> good to know
2023-09-23T22:44:59 < zyp> I just checked my old designs and they don't have it either
2023-09-23T23:10:54 < zyp> magjack? why not a phyjack? https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2211211800_ZLG-Zhiyuan-Elec-ePort-G_C5259126.pdf
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--- Day changed su syys 24 2023
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2023-09-24T00:35:03 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8jrpCoZyx8 new rigol series for $400 price point
2023-09-24T00:36:05 < nomorekaki> thin, true 12bit, hdmi, touchscreen, vesa100
2023-09-24T00:36:16 < nomorekaki> usb-c powered
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2023-09-24T01:46:02 < zyp> jpa-, do you have a dedicated 25MHz crystal for the PHY, or are you using MCO?
2023-09-24T01:51:02 < zyp> hmm, not much point trying to save a crystal when it's a $0.05 part
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2023-09-24T08:58:14 < jpa-> zyp: i'm using MCO2, driven from I2S PLL
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2023-09-24T17:52:44 < nomorekaki> any picoscope users?
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2023-09-24T21:32:01 < Mangy_Dog> I am soooo pissed at myself! So was about to send out a tricorder. Was doing one last checkover. Found 1 led wasnt working inside the door. Cries! So I have to cut the hatch out ruining the paint work to get inside as its sealed. Get inside, fine the led and stm32 was soldered fine. Thought maybe the stm32 had a bad pin. But before I did that. i double checked that I had the right program 
2023-09-24T21:32:01 < Mangy_Dog> flashed on it......... .. ....... ..... *fucking welp!*   It was just the wrong firmware. I have a NoSerial version of rogerclards core where I disabled the usb serial. The led was on the USB pin. There was nothing wrong. I never needed to crack the door open to fix it. I did all that damage for nothing. Now Im starting to get the acetone headache from all the acetone i used to soften the glue 
2023-09-24T21:32:01 < Mangy_Dog> as I scraped around the hatch. And now I need to reglue it, refill the edges and redo the pain job on the door! All because I DIDNT FUCKING FIRST CHECK THAT I FLASHED THE CORRECT PROGRAM ON THE FUCKING CHIP!!!!!!!!!! 
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2023-09-24T21:55:06 < jpa-> nah, it's because you've designed a hard to repair, glued enclosure
2023-09-24T21:55:09 < Steffanx> Time to get to design the thing for manufacturing Mangy_Dog ;)
2023-09-24T21:55:13 < Steffanx> and repair
2023-09-24T21:55:23 < jpa-> you should work for apple
2023-09-24T21:58:58 < Steffanx> You too jpa-.
2023-09-24T22:07:07 < Mangy_Dog> actually i already did
2023-09-24T22:07:10 < Mangy_Dog> V3 solves this :p
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2023-09-24T23:11:26 < PaulFertser> Yom Kippur is nice. Literally a day without cars (almost), even kids are riding their bicycles in the middle of highways.
2023-09-24T23:12:55 < specing> is riding bicycles not considered as work for purposes of Yom Kippur or are those kids non-jewish?
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2023-09-24T23:13:24 < nomorekaki> #jews32
2023-09-24T23:14:35 < PaulFertser> specing: there're many people who have very different religious habits and also many that are not believers at all. Probably those who are more strict do not ride bicycles but even they allow their kids to do it afaict.
2023-09-24T23:15:01 < nomorekaki> are you in promised land PaulFertser?
2023-09-24T23:15:10 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: yes
2023-09-24T23:15:12 < nomorekaki> *the promised land
2023-09-24T23:15:19 < nomorekaki> vacay?
2023-09-24T23:16:05 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: no, they gave me citizenship so now I live here.
2023-09-24T23:16:19 < nomorekaki> :O
2023-09-24T23:19:18 < PaulFertser> I'm considered to be a "son of a jew" according to the law of return, so that's not too surprising.
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2023-09-24T23:20:12 < nomorekaki75> exodus is real
2023-09-24T23:20:43 < Steffanx> You got old quickly nomorekaki75 
2023-09-24T23:21:01 < nomorekaki75> and still no retirement
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2023-09-24T23:23:52 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYZskbAqE_w Lagoona - Promised Land
2023-09-24T23:26:16 < fenugrec> I have 5 boards with a failed-short MP2141 (buck reg for 3v3), not my design, I guess it's time for a bodged crowbar add-on
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2023-09-24T23:26:38 < fenugrec> can't find pin-compatible SOT563 buck regs with better specs
2023-09-24T23:26:53 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: you jewiz?
2023-09-24T23:30:04 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: the law says I'm "son of a jew".
2023-09-24T23:30:35 < specing> PaulFertser: I see
2023-09-24T23:30:48 < specing> PaulFertser: wish there was a yom kippur every day ;P
2023-09-24T23:30:52 < specing> r/fuckcars
2023-09-24T23:31:19 < PaulFertser> specing: but there's no public transport either, no busses, no trains, no private busses.
2023-09-24T23:32:54 < specing> PaulFertser: everyone on bicycles, yay!
2023-09-24T23:33:09 < PaulFertser> specing: those who "respect the tradition" do not eat and do not even drink water for 25 hours that day.
2023-09-24T23:33:54 < PaulFertser> Many people ride their own electric kickbikes and electric bicycles.
2023-09-24T23:34:06 < PaulFertser> But all kicksharing services are turned off too.
2023-09-24T23:34:50 < PaulFertser> Weird country
2023-09-24T23:34:58 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: have you been practicing traditions before moving?
2023-09-24T23:35:43 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: no, I have always been agnostic.
2023-09-24T23:36:35 < PaulFertser> I've been practicing cycling and free software usage and development.
2023-09-24T23:37:17 < nomorekaki> you have been practicing traditions of the GNU
2023-09-24T23:37:28 < specing> nice PaulFertser 
2023-09-24T23:38:37 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: what happend to your jubb?
2023-09-24T23:39:06 < nomorekaki> also you getting new jubb?
2023-09-24T23:39:34 < nomorekaki> or are you remote working in better climate?
2023-09-24T23:43:56 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: I'm working remotely on my old job for now. They give me enough time and some opportunities to contribute upstream.
2023-09-24T23:44:07 < nomorekaki> how much rent?
2023-09-24T23:44:25 < PaulFertser> Climate here is not for everybody, especially in the summer.
2023-09-24T23:44:41 < nomorekaki> for sure
2023-09-24T23:45:00 < nomorekaki> winter might be nice
2023-09-24T23:47:25 < PaulFertser> About 1000 EUR (not including electricity, water and gas) per month for an apartment with 3 rooms and kitchen not far away from Tel Aviv. It's a 15 minutes push bike ride for me to the hackspace in South Tel Aviv.
2023-09-24T23:49:14 < nomorekaki> so 75m2?
2023-09-24T23:52:13 < nomorekaki> have you been there before?
2023-09-24T23:52:54 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: not sure about the area, never bothered to check, it's plenty of space especially compared to what we had in moscow.
2023-09-24T23:53:36 < PaulFertser> I've been here as a tourist in 2016 or something.
2023-09-24T23:55:29 < PaulFertser> Some furious rains in winter, but not too much too often, so that's ok. Also it might be kind of cold inside as there's no central heating.
2023-09-24T23:57:53 < nomorekaki> typical medditerranean
2023-09-24T23:58:42 < PaulFertser> I'm also 12 minutes away from the beach but I dislike it because there're no clothing-optional places at all anywhere in vicinity.
2023-09-24T23:59:01 < nomorekaki> all nude beach?
2023-09-24T23:59:19 < PaulFertser> All beaches require clothing.
2023-09-24T23:59:27 < nomorekaki> you want to keep clothes on or clothes off.. aah
2023-09-24T23:59:52 < PaulFertser> Clothes on are good for cycling, useless for swimming.
--- Day changed ma syys 25 2023
2023-09-25T00:00:01 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: what if you want to go to swimming?
2023-09-25T00:08:42 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: go as in walking instead of cycling? Why would I want that?
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2023-09-25T13:41:29 < Laurence_b> sup trolls
2023-09-25T13:42:02  * Laurence_b has a weird lunix issue on rpi
2023-09-25T13:42:18 < Laurence_b> usb audio device appears in lsusb, but not in aplay -l
2023-09-25T13:54:58 < Laurence_b> hmm dmesg might not be correct
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2023-09-25T13:56:18 < qyx> given the history of your debugging it is probably correct and you are reding it wrong
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2023-09-25T14:03:01 < ventYl> :>
2023-09-25T14:04:34 < Laurence_b> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68388203/usb-sound-card-no-detected-in-raspberry-pi-zero-w
2023-09-25T14:04:40 < Laurence_b> it was this issue
2023-09-25T14:20:54 < Laurence_b> weird sheeet
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2023-09-25T17:40:21 < Steffanx> Hm
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2023-09-25T19:06:32 < mawk> wat
2023-09-25T19:06:36 < mawk> wie
2023-09-25T19:06:37 < mawk> wo
2023-09-25T19:06:45 < mawk> hoe
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2023-09-25T19:25:01 < Steffanx> Wo? That's not even Dutch, mawk 
2023-09-25T19:25:15 < mawk> dutch is the same thing as german
2023-09-25T19:25:22 < mawk> zero difference 
2023-09-25T19:26:02 < mawk> geen verschil
2023-09-25T19:26:17 < mawk> kein Unterschiee
2023-09-25T19:26:23 < mawk> Unterschied*
2023-09-25T19:37:50 < Steffanx> Yeah like theres zero difference between french and italian
2023-09-25T19:43:08 < qyx> isn't there?
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2023-09-25T21:08:42 < Steffanx> No, not at all qyx. Zero difference 
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2023-09-25T21:15:00 < nomorekaki> PaulFertser: what walking and cycling has to do with getting undressed?
2023-09-25T21:15:08 < nomorekaki> :o
2023-09-25T21:16:28 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: if this country would be sane I could just wear my cycling clothes for comfortable riding, go to the sea, undress, swim, dress back up and cycle some more anywhere I want.
2023-09-25T21:17:47 < nomorekaki> so your cycling clothes are underdressed for a beach?
2023-09-25T21:18:17 < qyx> Steffanx: my impression too, I can speak none of them
2023-09-25T21:18:21 < PaulFertser> nomorekaki: no, but I do not want to swim in cycling clothes, why get them wet?
2023-09-25T21:18:33 < PaulFertser> And also salty.
2023-09-25T21:19:07 < Steffanx> Your sweat is wet and salty 
2023-09-25T21:19:15 < qyx> do you have to swim dressed in your $current_country?
2023-09-25T21:19:42 < Steffanx> Yes
2023-09-25T21:19:52 < Steffanx> That's where this discussion started 
2023-09-25T21:20:38 < qyx> is that because people during the great flooding were catched dressed?
2023-09-25T21:22:29 < jpa-> does the beach require a lot of clothes for men? changing to a pair of speedos or carrying them around is not much trouble, and still lets you show how big your penis is after cold sea
2023-09-25T21:22:54 < fenugrec> it's probably some type of sin over there
2023-09-25T21:24:21 < jpa-> https://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/10/11/5632779/56327740991599640360no.jpg  which one of these is paul?
2023-09-25T21:24:41 < Steffanx> The long haired guy 💯
2023-09-25T21:25:06 < jpa-> explains why he is hiding behind the flag
2023-09-25T21:30:11 < Steffanx> Why so jealous jpa- ?
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2023-09-25T22:07:42 < PaulFertser> LOL
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--- Day changed ti syys 26 2023
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2023-09-26T03:26:21 < englishman> PaulFertser: should we be congratulating you on getting out? how do you feel about that? and what did you leave behind?
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2023-09-26T10:04:26 < Laurence_b> suppp
2023-09-26T10:04:38 < Laurence_b> anyone here used asoundrc to configure alsa ?
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2023-09-26T12:46:06 < jpa-> "error: '++' expression of 'volatile'-qualified type is deprecated"   such meh
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2023-09-26T14:36:12 < Steffanx> Don't use modern C++ jpa- 
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2023-09-26T17:32:02 < PaulFertser> englishman: I feel much less depressed and I'm grateful to Israel, it's a really impressive country with fantastic history. Not exactly the land of my dreams, and milk and honey are quite expensive here but I can live with that. I'm still very worried about the relatives of course. And the whole war situation where so many people continue to suffer and die staying their ground is not something I
2023-09-26T17:32:08 < PaulFertser> take easy.
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2023-09-26T18:33:12 < specing> PaulFertser: how much is soy milk?
2023-09-26T18:38:34 < PaulFertser> specing: hm, not sure I saw it in a regular shop. All the food is relatively expensive.
2023-09-26T18:42:42 < specing> PaulFertser: just fyi, cows are tortured, raped and murdered for their milk. The suffering is far worse than the "cold" war between "israel" and "palestine"
2023-09-26T18:49:45 < PaulFertser> specing: are you vegan?
2023-09-26T18:51:00 < specing> PaulFertser: yes
2023-09-26T18:52:58 < PaulFertser> specing: great. But too hard for me, I'm lacto-ovo-vegeterian.
2023-09-26T18:54:55 < specing> PaulFertser: i'm not vegan because it was easy, but because I couldn't live any more knowing what I was doing
2023-09-26T19:24:42 < jpa-> PaulFertser: how has your job situation in israel been like?
2023-09-26T19:25:55 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I'm working remotely on my old job so far as it lets me slacking and upstreaming.
2023-09-26T19:26:17 < PaulFertser> jpa-: so far my impression that there're really few opportunities for proper free software paid job here in Israel :(
2023-09-26T19:26:59 < jpa-> yeah, free software jobs are somewhat scarce anywhere
2023-09-26T19:28:39 < PaulFertser> There's Pengutronix in Germany and Bootlin (free electrons) in France. And plenty of other companies with smaller impact but they exist and contribute.
2023-09-26T19:31:05 < PaulFertser> And that's just the Embedded Linux segment while free software is much more than that.
2023-09-26T19:40:07 < mawk> why did you choose israel instead of coming to visit me and Steffanx in bike country PaulFertser 
2023-09-26T19:40:26 < mawk> you can play the tesla game when you're in delft
2023-09-26T19:40:38 < mawk> whenever you see a tesla parked by the canal, you push it into the canal
2023-09-26T19:40:49 < mawk> I need someone strong to help me with that
2023-09-26T19:41:49 < jpa-> i heard "altijd weer die finnen" is a problem in your fancy bike country.. are we really so bad? o_o
2023-09-26T19:41:58 < PaulFertser> mawk: first thing was that NL (and other countries) are not giving visas to russians without considerable effort and after the war started they stopped altogether or about that. The second is that a tourist visa is very limited and doesn't give a right to work.
2023-09-26T19:42:41 < mawk> lol jpa- 
2023-09-26T19:42:52 < mawk> right PaulFertser 
2023-09-26T19:44:18 < mawk> the government website doesn't say anything particular about russian people applying for long-term visa
2023-09-26T19:44:23 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm not really into vandalism, I respect others' property. Cycling in NL is wonderful indeed. Now that by this silly chance I became an Israeli citizen I can go to your countries without a visa. I stayed the same but your rules regarding me changed, is that fair?
2023-09-26T19:44:26 < mawk> it just says the consulate in st petersburg is closed
2023-09-26T19:45:04 < mawk> and as a high-skill migrant (IT worker) you easily get a permanent residence permit after working for a while
2023-09-26T19:46:12 < mawk> https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/visa-the-netherlands/mvv-long-stay/apply-russian-federation
2023-09-26T19:46:22 < Steffanx> jpa- i assume they also told you who the real "finnen" are jpa- ? I don't think mawk knows
2023-09-26T19:46:23 < mawk> someone in the netherlands can even apply on your behalf
2023-09-26T19:46:33 < mawk> Steffanx: is it like the "swedes" ?
2023-09-26T19:46:38 < Steffanx> -jpa-
2023-09-26T19:46:46 < Steffanx> idk who "the swedes" are :P
2023-09-26T19:46:51 < jpa-> yes, it is me, i admit
2023-09-26T19:48:22 < mawk> if you still like europe you can try the embassy in tel-aviv and submit a file PaulFertser , and the worst that happens is you lose some time
2023-09-26T19:49:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm now an Israeli citizen, I can enter without visa for tourist purposes. And of course I can apply for a long term visa if I find a job in NL or other country nearby.
2023-09-26T19:49:35 < PaulFertser> But I'm kinda settled here for now.
2023-09-26T19:49:42 < Steffanx> jpa-: No, it originates for a dutch blog where they wanted to avoid "immigrant" and "foreigner" as a term so they started to call them "finnen". I think nowadays its mainly a term for immigrates who refuse to behave or refuse to "integrate"
2023-09-26T19:49:51 < mawk> although you might have to pay
2023-09-26T19:50:00 < mawk> ah I thought it was a hypothetical PaulFertser , congrats then
2023-09-26T19:50:09 < mawk> you will soon catch up with me
2023-09-26T19:50:14 < zyp> PaulFertser, I think citizenships falls into the inherent unfairness of life
2023-09-26T19:50:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: thank you.
2023-09-26T19:50:27 < jpa-> ah, those pesky immigrants who stubbornly only differentiate and not integrate
2023-09-26T19:50:35 < mawk> lol
2023-09-26T19:50:42 < mawk> how's the hebrew coming along PaulFertser 
2023-09-26T19:50:50 < Steffanx> yeah mawk is one of those too jpa- . He's a fin
2023-09-26T19:50:59 < mawk> a fish fin?
2023-09-26T19:51:04 < Steffanx> He still rotates the dutch flag 90 degrees
2023-09-26T19:51:12 < Steffanx> No a "fin"
2023-09-26T19:51:17 < mawk> you mean I leave the french flag in the correct orientation
2023-09-26T19:51:43 < Steffanx> Yes you refuse to fully integrate.
2023-09-26T19:51:44 < jpa-> it's so silly that you would copy french flag
2023-09-26T19:52:00 < mawk> and luxembourg is exactly the dutch flag but desaturated
2023-09-26T19:52:37 < mawk> zyp: thanks to various laws having changed at exactly the right time I was able to acquire 2 extra citizenships
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2023-09-26T19:52:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm not really inspired by Hewbrew so far. It's a really old language with RTL and a set of unique letters without vowels (so you need to guess or know how any word is pronounced).
2023-09-26T19:52:54 < mawk> also if you have a lot of money it's very fair, you can invest in portugal or malta and get a passport for free
2023-09-26T19:53:06 < zyp> my kid can probably go places without a visa that I can't
2023-09-26T19:53:16 < Steffanx> mawk i trust google "The flag of the Netherlands is the world's oldest tricolour - beating France, Italy and Ireland, among others."
2023-09-26T19:53:21 < mawk> fake Steffanx 
2023-09-26T19:53:39 < mawk> zyp: in netherlands your kid automatically becomes dutch, but only if you're a man
2023-09-26T19:53:50 < mawk> if you're a woman the kid needs to apply for citizenship
2023-09-26T19:54:01 < mawk> I think they repealed that law now, but only very recently
2023-09-26T19:54:05 < mawk> I'm not even sure they did
2023-09-26T19:54:35 < mawk> so, judaism is transmitted by the mother and dutchaism by the father
2023-09-26T19:55:32 < PaulFertser> mawk: and some letters can mean very different things, e.g. "|" at the end of the word is basically like English "v" but in the middle of a word it's supposed to tell you there's a sound like "o" or "u" there (so basically it's used as an ambigous vowel in that context). 
2023-09-26T19:55:35 < Steffanx> Also you cannot become dutch and keep your other nationality as well.
2023-09-26T19:55:53 < PaulFertser> s/at the end/at the beginning/
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2023-09-26T19:55:57 < Steffanx> Also you cannot become non-dutch and keep your dutch passport.
2023-09-26T19:56:03 < mawk> yes you can Steffanx 
2023-09-26T19:56:09 < Steffanx> ofcourse there are exceptions :P
2023-09-26T19:56:11 < zyp> first time we brought the kid to japan, we didn't bother getting her a japanese passport, just had her enter as a norwegian tourist
2023-09-26T19:56:11 < mawk> they changed the law recently
2023-09-26T19:56:22 < mawk> so I was able to stay dutch when I turned 18
2023-09-26T19:56:30 < mawk> but I still cannot acquire a new nationality and stay dutch
2023-09-26T19:56:41 < mawk> so nobody tell them I'm luxembourgisch
2023-09-26T19:56:50 < Steffanx> you already had the dutch nationality i assume?
2023-09-26T19:56:54 < mawk> yes
2023-09-26T19:57:04 < mawk> from birth
2023-09-26T19:57:27 < mawk> I was supposed to lose it at 18 but they changed the law right on time
2023-09-26T19:58:03 < PaulFertser> Also the current political situation here is not something I can like, there's a good reason there're tens of thousands of protesters every Saturday since December.
2023-09-26T19:58:23 < zyp> AIUI japan still has a law where you're supposed to choose between multiple citizenships when you turn 20 or something
2023-09-26T19:58:46 < zyp> but apparently it's not enforced, so people ignore it and keep multiple indefinitely
2023-09-26T20:11:30 < karlp> lol, 300 ws2815s take almost 8W turned off...
2023-09-26T20:11:45 < mawk> like the gilets jaunes PaulFertser ?
2023-09-26T20:14:04 < BrainDamage> italy's tricolor flag is from 1800s, it's not hard to beat it
2023-09-26T20:14:22 < Steffanx> Yeah karlp. Would be nice to have some ultra low power ws28wahtever leds
2023-09-26T20:14:22 < BrainDamage> and it's openly admitted to be a ripoff of france's
2023-09-26T20:15:01 < BrainDamage> "we took france's flag because we were inspired by the revolutionaries and changed blue for green because green means hope here"
2023-09-26T20:18:19 < karlp> Steffanx: good news, they're quite happy with 3.3v signalling.
2023-09-26T20:25:15 < ventYl> PaulFertser: there's also collabora, AFAIK they currently do a lot of graphics-oriented stuff
2023-09-26T20:25:49 < karlp> there's also just any decent company that uses linux, they can often be talked into letting upstream work be part of the job
2023-09-26T20:27:05 < PaulFertser> mawk: nah, different cause and different ways of protesting and different everything I'd say.
2023-09-26T20:27:07 < ventYl> even at Autodesk, which is probably by far the most decent company I've been working at, the upstreaming process was fishy
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2023-09-26T20:39:44 < karlp> ventYl: I thin it takes a lot of will from the staff, not just tacit approval of mgmt.
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2023-09-26T20:45:02 < ventYl> karlp: my feeling was, that it is sufficient to throw the changes over the fence and call it a day
2023-09-26T20:46:05 < ventYl> karlp: s/^/my feeling was that their stance is\0/
2023-09-26T20:46:19 < ventYl> dementia sucks
2023-09-26T20:47:21 < ventYl> nevermind, datashit is calling
2023-09-26T20:54:46 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/5LZYVo0.jpeg
2023-09-26T20:54:53 < mawk> mobile MRI machine
2023-09-26T20:58:31 < Steffanx>  déjà vu
2023-09-26T20:59:36 < mawk> lies
2023-09-26T21:11:39 < Steffanx> How is it powered mawk ?
2023-09-26T21:11:46 < Steffanx> Diesel generator or is that too noisy?
2023-09-26T21:12:22 < qyx> a fusion reactor
2023-09-26T21:12:30 < Steffanx> 653 noises i heard.
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2023-09-26T21:59:00 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2023-09-26T21:59:09 < mawk> from the wall power
2023-09-26T21:59:23 < Steffanx> 380 VAC?
2023-09-26T21:59:29 < mawk> probably 
2023-09-26T21:59:35 < mawk> someone told that somewhere 
2023-09-26T21:59:48 < mawk> someone very informed
2023-09-26T22:01:30 < mawk> the guy asked me if I wanted a quick scan 
2023-09-26T22:01:35 < mawk> when I asked him how it is powered
2023-09-26T22:04:37 < Steffanx> Sure its MRI means what it usually means?
2023-09-26T22:04:48 < Steffanx> Manly Rectal Injection?
2023-09-26T22:13:17 < mawk> yes
2023-09-26T22:20:45 < Steffanx> I see
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--- Day changed ke syys 27 2023
2023-09-27T00:29:52 < karlp> ventYl: well, throwing the changes over the fence is still far more work than not doing it at all, and given the, shall we say heirarchy? of many of the linux lists, throwing it over the fence is abotu as good as you can do anyway...
2023-09-27T00:30:59 < qyx> lol hierarchy
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2023-09-27T03:10:03 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, I know the guys from pengutronix... not sure if they're hiring, and they're .de anyway
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2023-09-27T10:11:22 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: yes, I know them too. One needs to be in .de and speak German to join, that's for sure.
2023-09-27T10:14:49 < ventYl> :)
2023-09-27T10:15:09 < ventYl> that language will ruin this country once
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2023-09-27T10:57:13 < PaulFertser> I'd prefer to learn German than Hebrew as it uses latin letters and has plenty of commonalities with English, so much easier in many regards.
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2023-09-27T15:08:57 < jpa-> hmm.. so i'm going to have a bunch of STM32 devices on same ethernet switch, communicating with a PC
2023-09-27T15:10:01 < jpa-> i have the choice of either advertising the same ipv6 prefix from all devices and have device address   fc00::UNIQ_ID    or advertising different prefix from each one and have device address  fc00:UNIQ_ID::1
2023-09-27T15:10:30 < jpa-> the latter has the advantage that i'll immediately see all connected devices from the PC ipconfig.. but it feels a bit silly
2023-09-27T15:15:08 < zyp> link local addrs are too inconvenient because users needs to keep track of which interface they belong to?
2023-09-27T15:16:26 < zyp> having a common prefix seems like the saner solution, but that requires all devices to actually be on the same network, so that you don't risk getting the same prefix advertised on multiple interfaces
2023-09-27T15:17:39 < zyp> if the devices aren't talking to each other, only the host, putting them on individual /127s or something might be preferable
2023-09-27T15:29:16 < jpa-> i think autoconfig on the PC side only works for /64 networks
2023-09-27T15:29:48 < ventYl> depends
2023-09-27T15:30:18 < ventYl> IIRC, there are two cases for two different network sizes, both behave completely differently and only one of them is widely supported
2023-09-27T15:43:06 < ventYl> nah that was for DHCPv6
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2023-09-27T18:03:28 < qyx> jpa-: fc00/8 is not being used, ULA should be in fd00/8, I would use the next 48 bits as a global network prefix and then construct the remaining 64 bits from the uniq_id
2023-09-27T18:03:37 < qyx> the global prefix could be configurable
2023-09-27T18:04:14 < qyx> for more skilled users
2023-09-27T18:06:27 < qyx> so fdxx:xxxx.xxxx.yyyy.idid.idid.idid.idid
2023-09-27T18:07:11 < qyx> x is global prefix of your device, y is the configurable subnet number, id is the uniq_id
2023-09-27T18:08:30 < qyx> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4193#section-3.1
2023-09-27T18:09:50 < qyx> at least that's the scheme I decided to use in my next ethernet workproj
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2023-09-27T19:11:10 < jpa-> in this case, it is desired that the devices do not have any internal permanent configuration, and that everything just autoconfigures itself
2023-09-27T19:11:38 < jpa-> i guess if i go with separate prefix for each device, it will work well enough even if there are several sets of devices on different interfaces
2023-09-27T19:11:55 < jpa-> even though it feels a bit silly to have /64 subnets with 2 hosts each (PC and a single device)
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2023-09-27T20:12:57 < fenugrec> eh, we can always invent IPv8 when we run out of space again
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2023-09-27T20:46:35 < qyx> if ipv4 is called ipv4, ipv6 should be called ipv16
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2023-09-27T20:52:13 < zyp> ipv4 is called ipv4 because the version field in the packet header has the value 4
2023-09-27T20:52:30 < zyp> and same for ipv6
2023-09-27T21:09:03 < qyx> joking obv
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2023-09-27T21:45:12 < mawk> why 16 qyx 
2023-09-27T21:45:26 < mawk> because 128 bits
2023-09-27T21:46:00 < mawk> jpa- why that's perfectly fine
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2023-09-27T21:46:19 < mawk> what's not fine is ISPs giving /64s or even single /128s to my network 
2023-09-27T21:46:26 < mawk> now I have to do horrible hacks
2023-09-27T21:47:30 < mawk> and a whole /64 per computer is a good idea anyway for the privacy extensions 
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2023-09-27T22:37:09 < machinehum> What is the normal relay form factor called, for the little orange guys
2023-09-27T22:38:08 < machinehum> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001248265771.html
2023-09-27T22:38:56 < qyx> sugar cobe?
2023-09-27T22:38:58 < qyx> *cube
2023-09-27T22:39:24 < machinehum> hmm
2023-09-27T22:39:24 < qyx> nope, sugar cube looks differently, this is something nonstandard
2023-09-27T22:39:37 < machinehum> I've seen these suckers many times before
2023-09-27T22:39:48 < qyx> (google sugar cube relay)
2023-09-27T22:39:56 < machinehum> HK19F gets you there
2023-09-27T22:44:25 < qyx> zyp: what's your current thoughts about 10base-t1l adoption? have you seen any standard connectors becoming available recently?
2023-09-27T22:50:17 < zyp> no, and for me -t1l is the least interesting SPE standard
2023-09-27T22:51:10 < zyp> I don't think I do anything 10base-t1l would be a better fit than 100base-t1 for
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2023-09-27T23:26:55 < fenugrec> it's amazing how {10^n}base-T over 8p8c connectors has stood the test of time. I have a 28 year old printer networked with the same cable type and same router as my other 1Gb machines
2023-09-27T23:28:05 < BrainDamage> consider that many people get gigabit though few hundred of m of janky phone twister pair
2023-09-27T23:32:00 < qyx> zyp: isn't t1 25 m or so only?
2023-09-27T23:32:34 < qyx> *100base-t1
2023-09-27T23:33:00 < qyx> oh 15 even
2023-09-27T23:33:06 < qyx> very short bridges
2023-09-27T23:33:24 < zyp> I'm not doing bridges
2023-09-27T23:34:23 < qyx> which reminds me, was that timber-steel bridge in .no? it collapsed about a year ago
2023-09-27T23:34:39 < qyx> any new developments in this regard?
2023-09-27T23:35:58 < qyx> A view of a bridge that has collapsed over the River Laagen, in Gudbrandsdalen, Norway, Monday, Aug. 15, 2022. A preliminary investigation into the collapse of a wooden bridge in southern Norway, causing no injuries, has been assessed to have been caused by “a break in one of the diagonals in the main span”, Norwegian investigators said Friday, Dec. 2, 2022
2023-09-27T23:40:25 < qyx> you dilettante
2023-09-27T23:40:30 < qyx> another one collapsed this august
2023-09-27T23:41:04 < qyx> https://apnews.com/article/norway-railway-bridge-collapse-rain-975d37640245f7dc6834259ad23b8dae
2023-09-27T23:42:43 < zyp> there were some rain
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2023-09-27T23:59:43 < josuah> kudos for halting all traffic one week earlier anticipating it would fail
--- Day changed to syys 28 2023
2023-09-28T00:05:16 < qyx> collapsing foundation is pretty slow and easily seen failure, so yeah, you can prepare for that
2023-09-28T00:06:04 < qyx> and specifically with railway bridges, rails are curved before anything happens, so traffic at the nominal speed is pretty impossible
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2023-09-28T00:13:45 < karlp> t1l is the "long distance, but we threw out multipoint" so fuck it.
2023-09-28T00:21:15 < qyx> probably the first mac+phy was dealing with it so not a problem at all
2023-09-28T00:21:47 < qyx> the ADIN2111
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2023-09-28T00:30:32 < karlp> so, fwiw, because I'm closing tabs, on that npr audio quality quiz, I picked the 320k or wav on everything but the tom's diner track, which was the track explicitly used for testing mp3.
2023-09-28T00:30:40 < karlp> I expected to do worse actually.
2023-09-28T00:42:05 < Steffanx> It was 50/50 here. Either the wav or 320k mp3.
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2023-09-28T00:43:23 < qyx> an audiophile will definitely tell te difference between wav and flac
2023-09-28T00:43:42 < fenugrec> but the soundstage, the presence !
2023-09-28T00:47:09 < Steffanx> Absolutely 💯
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2023-09-28T01:27:31 < zyp> qyx, hmm, that's actually fairly cute
2023-09-28T01:34:28 < qyx> the only downside of that part is the LUT has only 16 records
2023-09-28T01:34:32 < qyx> iirc
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2023-09-28T12:34:12 < jpa-> hmm, the STM32 ethernet PTP timer is quite fancy: 64-bit timer with interrupt on compare and 32-bit fractional speed adjust
2023-09-28T12:34:22 < jpa-> i think i'll use it as the main reference clock in my code
2023-09-28T12:34:50 < jpa-> even when operating stand-alone without PTP
2023-09-28T12:37:09 < zyp> nice
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2023-09-28T22:40:09 < Laurenceb_> Pi5 looking pretty hawt
2023-09-28T22:40:14 < Laurenceb_> actually has power management
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2023-09-28T23:47:50 < nomorekaki> how is innovation?
2023-09-28T23:48:14 < Steffanx> Can you eat that?
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2023-09-28T23:51:32 < nomorekaki> sometimes
2023-09-28T23:51:39 < Steffanx> Hmm
2023-09-28T23:57:09 < qyx> stalled
2023-09-28T23:57:18 < qyx> no time for that
--- Day changed pe syys 29 2023
2023-09-29T00:03:12 < nomorekaki> only time for rock'n roll
2023-09-29T00:09:42 < Steffanx> ##Farming32
2023-09-29T00:13:26 < zyp> qyx, to continue the SPE discussion, have you seen any chips that can do multiple modes?
2023-09-29T00:13:42 < zyp> broadcom has a phy that can do both 100base-t1 and 1000base-t1
2023-09-29T00:13:56 < zyp> but otherwise everything seems to be single mode
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2023-09-29T00:16:46 < qyx> zyp: yeah I found that broadcom when we were talking aout it but nothing more
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2023-09-29T02:38:16 < machinehum> Turns out my esp32 and rp2040 both don't support spi slave
2023-09-29T02:38:21 < machinehum> Is that common?
2023-09-29T02:38:38 < machinehum> qyx: This UPS is coming along... it might actually work
2023-09-29T02:45:07 < qyx> yes it is, usually such "high level" MCUs run code from SPI/QSPI flash and the controller supports master only
2023-09-29T02:45:42 < qyx> machinehum: boost mode too?
2023-09-29T02:45:44 < qyx> great
2023-09-29T02:45:45 < machinehum> qyx: What is your perfered method for MCU to MCU comms? Don't use two MCU's on the same board?
2023-09-29T02:46:15 < machinehum> qyx: Yeah so I twiddled with some PWM clock dividers and got more granular control of current flowing into the cells
2023-09-29T02:46:43 < qyx> nope and I would probably use a uart for that
2023-09-29T02:46:54 < qyx> maybe even a single wire half duplex uart
2023-09-29T02:55:14 < machinehum> Yeah I'm switching to uart
2023-09-29T02:55:24 < qyx> zyp: hm i wonder if you could innovate that using isolation transformers (to get rid of wide Vcm) and a 2xSPDT analol mux
2023-09-29T02:55:43 < qyx> could be actually feasible if you plan to do only a single "master port" to support many devices in your use case
2023-09-29T02:55:59 < qyx> obv 2 discrete PHYs behind the mux
2023-09-29T02:56:09 < machinehum> This does into a PC and has interference, that's why the connector is lifted https://i.imgur.com/Lw1fdI7.jpg
2023-09-29T02:56:10 < qyx> and uh, mux RMII too
2023-09-29T02:56:15 < machinehum> goes*
2023-09-29T02:56:34 < machinehum> Anyone know of a taller right angle 2.54mm header
2023-09-29T02:57:43 < qyx> heh 2xSPDT is called DPDT
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2023-09-29T08:40:41 < jpa-> machinehum: RP2040 datasheet says it has SPI slave mode
2023-09-29T08:41:14 < jpa-> and to me it seems some ESP32 models support that too
2023-09-29T08:42:07 < jpa-> but UART is often easiest because it allows very flexible software timing on both sides
2023-09-29T08:42:24 < jpa-> slower max speed than SPI though
2023-09-29T09:30:59 < ventYl> machinehum: back when I've been connecting AVRs together, I used I2C
2023-09-29T10:38:37 < mawk> which triangular numbers are perfect squares?
2023-09-29T10:39:10 < mawk> the question is surprisingly deep
2023-09-29T10:39:25 < mawk> nth triangular number is 1+2+3+…+n
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2023-09-29T10:50:05 < jpa-> triangles are not squares
2023-09-29T10:59:14 < mawk> :(
2023-09-29T10:59:34 < mawk> the "area" of a triangle can be the same as the area of a square 
2023-09-29T10:59:59 < mawk> more precisely we are looking for all the n such that there exists a m such that n(n+1)/2 = m²
2023-09-29T11:06:58 < mawk> for some cosmic reason it's related to the successive approximations of √2
2023-09-29T11:07:56 < mawk> 3/2, 17/12, 99/70, etc
2023-09-29T11:08:21 < mawk> we have n = (3-1)/2, then n = (17-1)/2, n = (99-1)/2, and so on
2023-09-29T11:09:26 < mawk> for instance the third one is n = 49, and that corresponds to 49·50/2 = 35²
2023-09-29T11:11:49 < mawk> next one is 288·289/2 = 204²
2023-09-29T11:13:50 < mawk> I found a closed formula to find directly the nth one but it's not very pretty 
2023-09-29T11:15:16 < mawk> -1/2 + (1+√2)^(2n+2)/4 + (1-√2)^(2n+2)/4
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2023-09-29T11:58:19 < qyx> mawk: don't you have enough stm32 innovations to do?
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2023-09-29T12:19:33 < Steffanx> He's on holiday... AGAIN.
2023-09-29T12:25:48 < mawk> no qyx
2023-09-29T12:28:27 < BrainDamage> mawk only uses stm36 because it's a triangular number
2023-09-29T12:28:41 < mawk> lol 
2023-09-29T12:28:58 < BrainDamage> ( and it's a perfect square )
2023-09-29T12:29:26 < mawk> yes 8·9/2
2023-09-29T12:29:29 < mawk> perfection
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2023-09-29T13:26:57 < Steffanx> Perfection. I get all warm and fuzzy.
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2023-09-29T14:04:11 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/R6U/plain   such coding convention, much excellent
2023-09-29T14:06:30 < jpa-> "Missing blank line after comment" is the one i just can't get used to
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2023-09-29T14:09:56 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.net/PatrickJBlum/status/1706354581989626323#m
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2023-09-29T14:23:27 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.net/PatrickJBlum/status/1705367744315855070#m
2023-09-29T14:23:30 < Laurenceb_> orbital sides
2023-09-29T14:23:36 < Laurenceb_> but we shouldn't meme too hard
2023-09-29T14:24:25 < Laurenceb_> >this is the future
2023-09-29T14:29:31 < Steffanx> Can you share this convention with the blax, jpa- ?
2023-09-29T14:35:07 < jpa-> the blaxter lint is simple: "error: Found whitespace"
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2023-09-29T14:58:11 < jbo> moin
2023-09-29T14:58:44 < jbo> how's everybody doing?
2023-09-29T14:59:27 < qyx> preparing for a rapid innovation
2023-09-29T14:59:41 < ventYl> counts "wishing someone long and painful death" as good?
2023-09-29T14:59:50 -!- gurki [~gurki@user/gurki] has joined ##stm32
2023-09-29T15:00:06 < qyx> colloquially called "a meeting"
2023-09-29T15:06:30 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2023-09-29T15:09:24 < jbo> ventYl, no, that is just poor personality
2023-09-29T15:09:40 < jbo> qyx, better get that agile sprint planning up and ready
2023-09-29T15:09:45 < ventYl> I knew that!
2023-09-29T15:10:04 < jbo> two years ago I was consulting for a larger US corp that was trying to do agile development for hardware. it was a disaster.
2023-09-29T15:10:34 < ventYl> did they try to release half-done PCB?
2023-09-29T15:14:18 < qyx> it is not called half done
2023-09-29T15:14:20 < qyx> it is called MVP
2023-09-29T15:15:07 < BrainDamage> it's also called the only release it'll ever get because consumers are ok with it and anything else will erode the profit margin
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2023-09-29T15:23:37 < Mangy_Dog> for anyone whos wondering WTF WHY AM I BANNED FROM DISCORD! Like i just thought... Cloudflare has broken discord... its not you its everyone!
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2023-09-29T15:30:38 < qyx> what's that, you mean the colorful thing for teenagers?
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2023-09-29T16:48:23 < Steffanx> Even millennials use it mr qyx . 
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2023-09-29T17:34:12 < englishman> irc for millennials
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2023-09-29T17:39:28 < Ecco> Hi!
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2023-09-29T17:47:49 < Steffanx> Lo
2023-09-29T17:50:50 < Ecco> I'm looking at the datasheet of a MEMS manufactured by ST. Namely, AIS2DW12. It's a low-power MEMS, and in low-power mode the datasheet says that it draws 0.38uA when fed 1.8V, and 0.67uA when fed 3V. This sounds counter-intuitive to me: I could understand why the current would remain constant (kind of like with an LDO), but the current
2023-09-29T17:50:51 < Ecco> *increasing* with voltage seems wild to me.
2023-09-29T17:52:07 < BrainDamage> that's because it doesn't have a voltage regulator at all inside
2023-09-29T17:52:33 < BrainDamage> it's just that logic gates store their values as voltage on the cap, the higher voltage means more charge has to flow through
2023-09-29T17:52:44 < BrainDamage> so higher voltages, more charge, more current
2023-09-29T17:53:02 < BrainDamage> this is not unique to to that mems but it's true of any cmos digital logic
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--- Day changed la syys 30 2023
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2023-09-30T01:10:26 < machinehum> Does anyone have a optoisolated uart buffer?
2023-09-30T01:10:32 < machinehum> Cheap ideally
2023-09-30T01:11:30 < fenugrec> cheapest opto is *817 (lt817, ltv817), slow as molasses, unidirectional
2023-09-30T01:11:38 < fenugrec> bidir will be way way more $
2023-09-30T01:12:16 < fenugrec> 6n137/138 = much faster still cheap and unidir. needs external compoents too, like 817
2023-09-30T01:12:50 < machinehum> Just use two I guess
2023-09-30T01:12:57 < machinehum> I wonder if it can do 115200
2023-09-30T01:13:03 < fenugrec> si8621 if you want bidir, fast, but not optical (some RF coupled capacitor )
2023-09-30T01:14:49 < machinehum> Two ltv817's should do it
2023-09-30T01:19:28 < fenugrec> to state the obvious... if this is going into production eventually, parameter spread is not to be ignored
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2023-09-30T01:32:59 < gurki> i like the adum stuff, eg adum1201/121n
2023-09-30T01:33:36 < gurki> whether these fit the cheap bill depends on your definition of cheap
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2023-09-30T02:37:41 < aandrew> you can make a slow opto very fast by using an external transistor to minimize the phototransistor's collector current change
2023-09-30T02:40:54 < qyx> does using a hv safety cap as an isolation barrier count?
2023-09-30T02:41:51 < qyx> a whitened/manchestered uart could work over a cap too
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2023-09-30T08:58:46 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- That bootloader discussion we had a while ago. In addition to using a button; can I use a RTC register or something else to hold a value that if I reset the main APP, bootloader can check to see if button is pressed or if predefined value is in that register to indicate we requested to stay in the bootloader
2023-09-30T08:59:02 < ColdKeyboard> Is the RTC register the way to go or is there a simpler/better solution?
2023-09-30T09:07:08 < jpa-> RTC register works, but so does just RAM
2023-09-30T09:08:41 < jpa-> i usually do    static void* g_bootloader_trigger;   if (g_bootloader_trigger == &g_bootloader_trigger)   i.e. use its own address as sentinel value; though 0x12345678 would work just as well
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2023-09-30T09:18:41 < ColdKeyboard> Oh interesting, so I could just put something in RAM and reset/jump to bootloader and then check that RAM address for that value
2023-09-30T09:25:28 < jpa-> yeah, as long as you do so before the .bss filler code runs
2023-09-30T09:26:02 < jpa-> though if you jump, you might just as well jump directly past the check anyway; a marker value makes more sense for going through SYSRESETREQ
2023-09-30T09:52:59 < zyp> I have a .bootinfo section at the start of ram, so that it's always at the same location regardless of .data and .bss size
2023-09-30T09:53:15 < zyp> and that is not cleared automatically
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2023-09-30T13:37:47 < kdehl> Do all ARM microcontrollers come with bootloaders pre-installed?
2023-09-30T13:43:17 < Steffanx> No..
2023-09-30T14:07:44 < zyp> many do, some don't
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2023-09-30T14:39:14 < catphish> i can't think of a common one that requires external programming, but i'm sure they exist
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2023-09-30T17:21:27 < zyp> IIRC there's even some stm32s that don't have bootloaders
2023-09-30T17:29:36 < Steffanx> And there is Silabs that just pre-programs their mcus with a non-functional bootloader :)
2023-09-30T17:29:49 < Steffanx> although i recall ST did that too once.
2023-09-30T17:30:09 < Steffanx> (not sure if that was pre-programmed but .. )
2023-09-30T17:30:45 < zyp> hmm, I think that's what I'm thinking of
2023-09-30T17:31:10 < zyp> IIRC the 1.8V F3 parts didn't have a bootloader
2023-09-30T17:31:26 < zyp> but apparently they do, so that might have been a bug in the early ones
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2023-09-30T19:30:48 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD1BY9f_9eU secret finnish military technology
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2023-09-30T20:40:23 < Steffanx> I was hoping for a portable sauna, nomorekaki.
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2023-09-30T20:55:02 < jpa-> ah, nomorekaki is just plain old kaki, i thought he was some japanese noob
2023-09-30T21:04:35 < kdehl> Sorry, got pulled away to a birthday party of a three-year old.
2023-09-30T21:05:27 < kdehl> Thanks for the answers. I'm new to ARM (been doing lots of AVR in the past), and I'm making a test board.
2023-09-30T21:06:01 < jpa-> asking a question and coming back hours later is perfectly normal here :)
2023-09-30T21:10:07 < kdehl> Haha. Sounds good to me. :)
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2023-09-30T21:22:33 < kdehl> I have made the simplest board I could come up with. It just has USB power, a voltage regulator, a few buttons and LEDs.
2023-09-30T21:23:14 < kdehl> I was just wondering if someone of you guys would want to have a look at it and see if I got everything right. I'm _very_ uncertain about the BOOT0 and BOOT1 pins and what they do exactly.
2023-09-30T21:23:26 < kdehl> https://aws.dose.se/files/stm32f446_rev1a.pdf
2023-09-30T21:36:15 < jpa-> that R25 pulldown on SWDCLK looks weird to me, but i'm not sure if it is a problem
2023-09-30T21:36:34 < mawk> zgeg
2023-09-30T21:36:42 < jpa-> boot button pulldowns look fine; i wouldn't bother with the button on boot1 because it's not much use
2023-09-30T21:37:15 < mawk> shouldn't it be pull*ups* for BOOT0/BOOT1 ?
2023-09-30T21:37:44 < jpa-> mawk: isn't boot0 = low = normal boot?
2023-09-30T21:40:16 < mawk> hmmmm yes
2023-09-30T21:41:09 < mawk> I got confused by the parameter name nBOOT0 in eeprom
2023-09-30T21:41:17 < mawk> so I thought the pin was nBOOT0 as well
2023-09-30T21:41:28 < mawk> ie inverted polarity like nRESET
2023-09-30T21:42:49 < mawk> kdehl 
2023-09-30T21:42:51 < mawk> AN2606 Application note - STM32 microcontroller system memory boot ... https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/an2606-stm32-microcontroller-system-memory-boot-mode-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2023-09-30T21:42:51 < zyp> jpa-, the #linuxcnc irc channel kinda feels like stepping a decade or two back in time
2023-09-30T21:43:51 < jpa-> zyp: parallel ports are still high tech there
2023-09-30T21:44:58 < jpa-> kdehl: i think it is generally recommended to connect VBAT to VDD if you don't have a battery
2023-09-30T21:45:21 < zyp> nah, leaving it open is fine
2023-09-30T21:45:43 < zyp> VBAT is only used when VDD is not present anyway
2023-09-30T21:46:08 < zyp> with a possible minor exception for the ADC that can measure VBAT/2 or something
2023-09-30T21:47:21 < zyp> I wouldn't bother with BOOT1
2023-09-30T21:47:59 < jpa-> i guess that's true, even though general operating conditions specifies a minimum for Vbat
2023-09-30T21:48:00 < zyp> and you should be careful about driving leds with PC13..15, they're special
2023-09-30T21:48:19 < jpa-> (also, that chip seems to have a whopping 9V max on BOOT0)
2023-09-30T21:49:00 < jpa-> considering the STM32F446 has USB, and you have USB connector, why not connect it up?
2023-09-30T21:49:21 < zyp> yeah, absolutely connect usb
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2023-09-30T21:49:53 < zyp> also, is that an old style 20-pin jtag connector?
2023-09-30T21:50:02 < zyp> what decade is this?
2023-09-30T21:50:37 < mawk> the one that's on the stlink/jlink ?
2023-09-30T21:50:47 < mawk> full side 2.54mm spacing
2023-09-30T21:50:49 < mawk> size"
2023-09-30T21:50:50 < mawk> *
2023-09-30T21:51:00 < zyp> nobody puts those on boards anymore
2023-09-30T21:51:08 < jpa-> looks like no crystalless USB though, but with exception of bootloader it often works with hsi also
2023-09-30T21:51:37 < jpa-> i would put a debug uart also if this is a "getting started" board
2023-09-30T21:52:15 < zyp> resistors on jtdi/jtms/jtck isn't really necessary, they've got internal resistors in the chip
2023-09-30T21:52:44 < jpa-> oh huh.. what's that crystal oscillator X1 doing, it's output doesn't seem to go anywhere?
2023-09-30T21:53:08 < zyp> and yeah, why external oscillator?
2023-09-30T21:53:42 < zyp> also, a full featured usb receptacle seems overkill if you're not gonna use the SS lines anyway
2023-09-30T21:54:20 < zyp> unless you've got a particular reason to use that kind, I suggest going with one of the common simplified ones
2023-09-30T21:54:45 < kdehl> Geez, got distracted again.
2023-09-30T21:55:42 < kdehl> jpa-: The R25 pulldown was just something I saw somewhere someone using to make sure the line was well defined. I checked the JTAG specification and they do recommend either a pull-up or pull-down on the line.
2023-09-30T21:56:34 < kdehl> mawk: Alright, so the boot buttons are correct?
2023-09-30T21:56:52 < kdehl> mawk: Yeah, I really tried reading that datahseet. Didn't make me much smarter.
2023-09-30T21:56:56 < jpa-> i agree with zyp that STM32 has internal pull-ups on the SWDIO/SWCLK
2023-09-30T21:57:01 < jpa-> i've never put external ones
2023-09-30T21:57:10 < kdehl> Oh, okay. So I can just skip those.
2023-09-30T21:57:11 < kdehl> Check!
2023-09-30T21:57:14 < jpa-> remember to read reference manual also :)
2023-09-30T21:59:32 < kdehl> jpa-: Which one? I have used this as a reference: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2304140030_STMicroelectronics-STM32F446RET6_C69336.pdf
2023-09-30T21:59:52 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/rm0390-stm32f446xx-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2023-09-30T21:59:53 < zyp> that's the datasheet, not the reference manual
2023-09-30T21:59:56 < kdehl> BTW, I recently made a device using the parallel port. :)
2023-09-30T22:00:05 < kdehl> Oh!
2023-09-30T22:00:28 < jpa-> it's common beginner mistake to look at "200 pages, ok, i'll read this and know everything!" and miss out on the 1347 pages more
2023-09-30T22:00:40 < zyp> datasheet specifies the hardware, reference manual describes how to work with it, including register interfaces and so on
2023-09-30T22:01:00 < kdehl> Hehe. Yeah. I'm used to AVR. Their datasheets are a couple of hundred pages long. :)
2023-09-30T22:01:24 < zyp> so if you want to know which pins go where, how much power it draws, how strong the pullups are and so on, you look in the datasheet
2023-09-30T22:01:40 < kdehl> Gotcha. Can't download that link though. wget gets stuck.
2023-09-30T22:01:41 < zyp> if you want to know how to use e.g. a UART, you look in the reference manual
2023-09-30T22:01:54 < kdehl> Right.
2023-09-30T22:02:19 < kdehl> zyp: So without checking the manual, what's special about PC13..15?
2023-09-30T22:02:27 < jpa-> ST doesn't like wget, they probably want you to accept cookies or something
2023-09-30T22:02:35 < kdehl> Alright.
2023-09-30T22:02:38 < zyp> kdehl, they have less current capability than the other GPIOs
2023-09-30T22:02:57 < kdehl> Oh yeah. Using Firefox worked. Heh.
2023-09-30T22:03:01 < kdehl> zyp: Alright.
2023-09-30T22:03:11 < zyp> because they're related to the backup domain, PC14/15 is where you hook up a RTC crystal if you want to use the RTC
2023-09-30T22:03:27 < jpa-> "The GPIOs (general purpose input/outputs) can sink or source up to 8 mA, and sink or source up to 20 mA (with a relaxed VOL/VOH) except PC13, PC14 and PC15 which can sink or source up to 3mA."
2023-09-30T22:04:03 < zyp> they said without checking the manual :)
2023-09-30T22:04:06 < kdehl> Yeah, that PDF was... heavy.
2023-09-30T22:04:13 < ColdKeyboard> If I'm writting something to RTC register, do I need to initialize anything or I can just whack it straight away?
2023-09-30T22:04:26 < zyp> you need to unlock the backup domain
2023-09-30T22:04:28 < jpa-> zyp: that means "check the manual for me" - haven't you learned anything after spending a decade on the channel? :)
2023-09-30T22:04:35 < ColdKeyboard> I want to store a variable that bootloader would check to know if stay-in-bootloader was requested or if it should jump to app
2023-09-30T22:04:42 < zyp> jpa-, but that's less fun :)
2023-09-30T22:05:03 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, didn't you see what was said about that this morning?
2023-09-30T22:05:06 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: on some parts the RTC interface clock needs to be enabled also, but yeah, also RTC unlock sequence
2023-09-30T22:05:10 < kdehl> jpa-: Well, with 10k resistors, I don't get more than 3 mA anyway. But good to know for future designs.
2023-09-30T22:05:27 < zyp> forget about using RTC for that, it's unnecessarily complicated, just stick it at the start of RAM instead
2023-09-30T22:05:38 < ColdKeyboard> Oh sorry I missed that :\
2023-09-30T22:05:55 < ColdKeyboard> So is there an easier/simpler way to do this?
2023-09-30T22:06:06 < zyp> kdehl, unless your 7seg displays use InGaN LEDs or something, you probably don't want to use 10k resistors
2023-09-30T22:06:23 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: what's wrong with just using RAM?
2023-09-30T22:06:41 < kdehl> zyp: Hm. Alright. Actually, I don't know. I'll check.
2023-09-30T22:06:43 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- I'm not sure how to do it without shooting myself in the foot :)
2023-09-30T22:07:04 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, I've got a .bootinfo section at the start of RAM: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts/arm_flash_ram.ld#n57
2023-09-30T22:07:07 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: test your code with unloaded gun first
2023-09-30T22:07:18 < jpa-> and even when you load it up, keep your foot out of the way
2023-09-30T22:07:38 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, then just stick the magic word into that section: https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp#n13
2023-09-30T22:07:42 < kdehl> zyp: Oops. They're AlGaInP. Guess that's the same?
2023-09-30T22:07:51 < zyp> no
2023-09-30T22:07:57 < kdehl> No?
2023-09-30T22:08:01 < kdehl> Yay.
2023-09-30T22:08:05 < zyp> InGaN is like a hundred times brighter than AlGaInP at the same current
2023-09-30T22:08:18 < zyp> at least as long as we're talking green LEDs
2023-09-30T22:08:25 < kdehl> This is red.
2023-09-30T22:08:37 < zyp> ah
2023-09-30T22:08:40 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks, I'll give that a go now.
2023-09-30T22:08:43 < zyp> well, they're not bright either :)
2023-09-30T22:08:55 < ColdKeyboard> I also found some examples that store a value ~100 bytes below top of stack
2023-09-30T22:08:55 < kdehl> Oh, maybe I should use lower resistors then.
2023-09-30T22:09:00 < kdehl> *resistor values
2023-09-30T22:09:05 < zyp> you should test it in practice
2023-09-30T22:09:24 < kdehl> I don't have them available. JLC will mount them for me.
2023-09-30T22:09:41 < jpa-> i'd put 1kohm and avoid PC13-PC15
2023-09-30T22:09:41 < zyp> last board I made with LEDs used 1k for red and yellow and 10k for InGaN green
2023-09-30T22:10:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ohk8C/f7_trace.pdf
2023-09-30T22:11:53 < kdehl> zyp: Interesting. That's kind of the same layout as my final device will be. Just a tad bit smaller. It'll be a 24-pin DIP.
2023-09-30T22:12:40 < kdehl> I'm going to make an ARMSID. A SID (yes, the Commodore kind) emulator. But I figured that before I do, I'll take the opportunity to learn how to deal with ARM controllers in general.
2023-09-30T22:14:39 < kdehl> Okay, I'll skip the PC13..15. Remove the BOOT1 and connect the USB properly. I just put it there for power since I've used it in a previous project for power after someone asked for a USB-C connector instead of a B, and I know it works.
2023-09-30T22:14:54 < jpa-> pulldown on boot1 is still a good idea
2023-09-30T22:15:04 < kdehl> Ah, ok. But no button?
2023-09-30T22:15:11 < jpa-> yes
2023-09-30T22:15:36 < kdehl> Right, and the clock. Forgot about that.
2023-09-30T22:15:45 < kdehl> I will have more questions about the BOOT0 pin later.
2023-09-30T22:16:14 < zyp> personally I don't tend to bother with BOOT0
2023-09-30T22:16:32 < zyp> (and when BOOT0 is tied low, BOOT1 is don't care)
2023-09-30T22:16:35 < jpa-> boot0 is nice for beginner boards when your debugger just refuses to work
2023-09-30T22:16:57 < zyp> maybe
2023-09-30T22:17:22 < jpa-> like the classic "go immediately to powersave on boot" mistake, and then openocd failing connect-under-reset because of that 100nF cap
2023-09-30T22:17:33 < zyp> this board is designed to be a known working starter target for the orbtrace, so if the debugger refuses to work, that's a bigger problem :)
2023-09-30T22:21:19 < kdehl> Just switched out the 10k resistors. I recently made the mistake of putting way too low a (0402) resistor next to an LED on a board that made it so bright I couldn't even look at it. Nor could I fix it either since it was too small and the space around it was too tight. :)
2023-09-30T22:21:42 < zyp> *that* was probably an InGaN green LED
2023-09-30T22:22:08 < zyp> I've made that mistake a couple of times, so I'm pretty careful about it now
2023-09-30T22:22:33 < kdehl> zyp: You're probably right. It was a green one too.
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2023-09-30T22:23:34 < kdehl> zyp: https://nygatan.dose.se/~madman/files/gus_pinball.mp4
2023-09-30T22:23:48 < kdehl> I had to put a paper on it in order to make that vide. :)
2023-09-30T22:24:33 < zyp> kdehl, compare https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603G1_C84267.pdf and https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603C1_C84264.pdf
2023-09-30T22:24:44 < zyp> they're both green LEDs in the same series from the same manufacturer
2023-09-30T22:24:55 < zyp> but one is InGaN and one is AlGaInP
2023-09-30T22:25:37 < zyp> look at the mcd ratings :)
2023-09-30T22:25:43 < kdehl> Haha. Damn!
2023-09-30T22:25:59 < kdehl> 650 vs 7.5.
2023-09-30T22:26:06 < kdehl> Two orders of magnitude.
2023-09-30T22:26:10 < zyp> yeah, at twice the current, but still
2023-09-30T22:26:34 < kdehl> Yeah.
2023-09-30T22:26:58 < fenugrec> a too-bright LED is super annoying if you're going to be in direct eyesight of it. I make these USB-CAN adapters with a white status LED, fed from 5V via 2k2 resistor (was 1k)
2023-09-30T22:27:33 < zyp> IIRC white is typically also a variant of InGaN, but less efficient than InGaN green
2023-09-30T22:27:38 < zyp> also blue
2023-09-30T22:28:10 < zyp> yeah
2023-09-30T22:28:19 < zyp> here's white from the same series as above: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603W1_C84265.pdf
2023-09-30T22:29:23 < fenugrec> (so around 1mA; 20% of nominal "90 mcd at 5mA). unless you need contrast in direct sunlight, a little goes a long way
2023-09-30T22:29:48 < zyp> indeed
2023-09-30T22:30:02 < zyp> for InGaN green, I've found 100uA to be a good value
2023-09-30T22:30:13 < fenugrec> heh I'm not even surprised
2023-09-30T22:31:49 < fenugrec> didn't know green was such brightness. I know modern red LEDs are way way better than they were
2023-09-30T22:32:52 < zyp> I don't know what's what in red, haven't made the same mistake there yet
2023-09-30T22:33:04 < zyp> just know they still typically need more current
2023-09-30T22:35:16 < fenugrec> they can go from stupid bright (I have some 3mm parts 1900mcd @20mA) to more sane 90mcd @20mA
2023-09-30T22:36:07 < fenugrec> but those are just numbers, the eye has a non-linear response blah blah blah easier to just test
2023-09-30T22:38:04 < qyx> wat, I am not going to drive a LED with 20 Ma
2023-09-30T22:38:24 < qyx> white and blues are fine with sub-1mA
2023-09-30T22:38:41 < qyx> I didn't find red/green with such parameters yet
2023-09-30T22:38:43 < fenugrec> 20mA is just to compare ratings ofc
2023-09-30T22:42:27 < qyx> I just want single wire leds in a 3mm package
2023-09-30T22:42:42 < qyx> with idle consumption much lower than WSxxxx parts
2023-09-30T22:42:53 < qyx> RGB of course
2023-09-30T22:47:55 < kdehl> Okay, I'm confused. I can't seem to find where to connecto the USB pins.
2023-09-30T22:48:59 < kdehl> zyp: I saw that you connected them to pins 53 (PB14) and 54  (PB15), but I see no reference to USB in the pinout section of the reference manual.
2023-09-30T22:49:27 < kdehl> Of the STM32F730V8 that you used in that schematic.
2023-09-30T22:52:31 < qyx> datashet
2023-09-30T22:52:33 < qyx> you need
2023-09-30T22:52:48 < qyx> there is an alternate function table
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2023-09-30T23:01:29 < kdehl> qyx: I can't find the pinout at all in the datasheet, that's why I refered to the reference manual.
2023-09-30T23:02:14 < kdehl> Wait, it's called OTG. Not USB.
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2023-09-30T23:12:57 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- I added the bootinfo section but now the .bin file is 300+ MB in size xD
2023-09-30T23:16:36 < kdehl> Okay, I just found Appendix A.1: USB OTG full speed interface solutions. :)
2023-09-30T23:17:34 < kdehl> So, PB14, PB15. Just like the schematic that zyp posted earlier for another controller. I assume this some kind of standard.
2023-09-30T23:17:52 < fenugrec> pin assignments are definitely in the DS
2023-09-30T23:18:53 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, sounds like the section is classified wrong
2023-09-30T23:19:03 < zyp> kdehl, pinout is in the datasheet
2023-09-30T23:19:07 < zyp> check the AF tables
2023-09-30T23:21:13 < kdehl> zyp: Yeah I found it. I think.
2023-09-30T23:21:51 < fenugrec> suggest looking at whatever devkit /discovery board ST has and doublecheck your USB wiring against theirs
2023-09-30T23:22:47 < ColdKeyboard> zyp How can I check that? Linker outputs correct RAM and Flash usage after linking
2023-09-30T23:23:01 < kdehl> So, some more questions. I'm used to having to use an external clock in an AVR, since the internal one has very high tolerances. For instance you can't really use UARTs at more than 9600 baud or something without an external one. This doesn't seem to be the case with ARMs?
2023-09-30T23:23:16 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, idk, just tell objcopy to explicitly exclude .bootinfo
2023-09-30T23:23:33 < zyp> kdehl, yes and no
2023-09-30T23:23:50 < zyp> UARTs will work perfectly fine without a crystal
2023-09-30T23:23:59 < kdehl> Alright. Great!
2023-09-30T23:24:29 < zyp> but USB won't, unless you got a newer part that supports «crystalless USB»
2023-09-30T23:24:52 < kdehl> Huh. Okay.
2023-09-30T23:24:57 < kdehl> Not even slower USB?
2023-09-30T23:25:10 < zyp> the parts that do have a separate 48 MHz oscillator with a tuning feature that can lock onto the USB framerate and use that to self correct
2023-09-30T23:25:17 < zyp> no
2023-09-30T23:25:43 < zyp> IIRC FS USB requires ±0.25% accuracy, while HSI guarantees ±0.5% accuracy or something like that
2023-09-30T23:26:18 < zyp> LS USB is more tolerant, but I don't know of any microcontrollers that has USB cores that can do LS device
2023-09-30T23:26:44 < zyp> in practice, like jpa- said earlier, FS USB will mostly work on HSI
2023-09-30T23:26:54 < kdehl> Alright. Well, looking at Appendix A.1 again, it does include an external oscillator in the schematic.
2023-09-30T23:26:59 < kdehl> What's HSI?
2023-09-30T23:27:04 < zyp> high speed internal
2023-09-30T23:27:16 < zyp> that's the name of the main internal oscillator
2023-09-30T23:27:41 < zyp> there's also a LSI that the watchdog runs from, and HSE and LSE that both run from external crystals
2023-09-30T23:27:50 < kdehl> Ah. Gotcha.
2023-09-30T23:27:58 < zyp> and some chips also have MSE or whatever
2023-09-30T23:28:11 < kdehl> Oh well, external crystal it is.
2023-09-30T23:28:20 < zyp> yeah
2023-09-30T23:35:48 < kdehl> zyp: You use a 12 MHz crystal. Does that mean you can only use full-speed USB? In the reference manual (not the datasheet!) they mention a 24 MHz or 26 MHz crystal for high speed USB OTG.
2023-09-30T23:36:21 < kdehl> Funny enough, for full-speed USB OTG they don't mention the frequency of the crystal at all.
2023-09-30T23:37:14 < zyp> kdehl, you can use any integer frequency crystal from 1-26 MHz if you want (and many non-integer frequencies as well if you want to be weird)
2023-09-30T23:37:35 < zyp> it only feeds the PLL, and then you use the PLL to generate the internal clocks you need, including 48 MHz for USB
2023-09-30T23:38:03 < zyp> and the reason it just needs to be an even integer is because usually the first step is dividing it down to 1 MHz before multiplying it up anyway
2023-09-30T23:38:22 < zyp> so you get the same result whether you start with 8 MHz divided by 8 or 12 MHz divided by 12
2023-09-30T23:39:26 < kdehl> Ah, I see.
2023-09-30T23:39:31 < kdehl> PLLs are magical.
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2023-09-30T23:40:30 < kdehl> Does this need to be configured in software somehow? Or does it (again, magically) know what the input frequency is?
2023-09-30T23:41:03 < kdehl> It is strange though that they specify the frequency in the reference manual if it doesn't really matter.
2023-09-30T23:46:30 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a way to set the WDT to fire immediately?
2023-09-30T23:47:44 < zyp> why do you want that?
2023-09-30T23:48:03 < fenugrec> ColdKeyboard, I don't know if setting the IPSF bit in the NVIC regs would be sufficient... you could try
2023-09-30T23:49:01 < fenugrec> *ISPR
2023-09-30T23:50:02 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks fenugrec I'll give that a try
2023-09-30T23:50:25 < fenugrec> but zyp is asking the right question : why
2023-09-30T23:55:34 < ColdKeyboard> Bootloader doesn't initialize or handle WDT so I'm thinking that if WDT resets the MCU, it's not going to be enabled when you enter the bootloader...
2023-09-30T23:58:00 < ColdKeyboard> I understand it's dumb reason, but clearing WDT in bootloader puts additional requirement that I don't want to have in the btl :)
2023-09-30T23:58:41 < ColdKeyboard> I guess a smarter way would be to re-init the WDT to have shorter window so it fires almost immediaterly
--- Log closed su loka 01 00:00:42 2023