--- Log opened to helmi 01 00:00:19 2024
2024-02-01T00:20:58 < karlp> and like an idiot I just spent half teh evening filing a bug report on mcuxpresso...
2024-02-01T00:23:14 < karlp> a good example of cmake abuse beingthe root cause though...
2024-02-01T00:23:16 < karlp> anyway...
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2024-02-01T00:56:38 < qyx> watch some lava flowing and calm down
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2024-02-01T01:07:11 < Ecco> I'm still trying to get ST's stupid BLE library to work
2024-02-01T01:07:15 < Ecco> I'm following their sample code
2024-02-01T01:07:34 < Ecco> but for some reason when I call their "aci_gap_set_discoverable" function during initialization, it just hangs forever
2024-02-01T01:07:37 < Ecco> here's the backtrace:
2024-02-01T01:07:47 < Ecco> #0  0x0801e23e in llhwc_slptmr_get ()
2024-02-01T01:07:47 < Ecco> #1  0x0802af04 in set_evnt_start_time ()
2024-02-01T01:07:47 < Ecco> #2  0x0802cf26 in add_evnt ()
2024-02-01T01:07:47 < Ecco> #3  0x0802467a in evnt_schdlr_rgstr_evnt ()
2024-02-01T01:07:47 < Ecco> #4  0x08026b5e in non_conn_mngr_adv_enable ()
2024-02-01T01:07:49 < Ecco> #5  0x0801036e in hci_le_set_advertising_enable (...)
2024-02-01T01:07:52 < Ecco> #6  0x080047d0 in GAP_Adv_Start(...)
2024-02-01T01:07:54 < Ecco> #7  0x08004436 in aci_gap_set_discoverable (...)
2024-02-01T01:08:04 < Ecco> Would you guys have any idea what I could have missed?
2024-02-01T01:12:57 < ventYl> do you have all clocks and interrupts enabled?
2024-02-01T01:14:58 < Ecco> well, the clocks I think should be OK
2024-02-01T01:15:05 < Ecco> I did implement some interrupt handlers
2024-02-01T01:15:10 < Ecco> but they are *not* being called indeed
2024-02-01T01:15:30 < Ecco> Is there a specific thing to do to enable them? (e.g. the "RADIO" interrupt)
2024-02-01T01:16:21 < qyx> I guess there are maybe 5 people who remotely did something with bluetooth
2024-02-01T01:16:29 < Ecco> :-D
2024-02-01T01:16:35 < Ecco> Why tho?
2024-02-01T01:16:42 < qyx> and I would say none of them touched ST libraries
2024-02-01T01:17:01 < Ecco> Well, on WBA it's not as if you had a choice. But boy is that code ugly indeed.
2024-02-01T01:17:07 < Ecco> The datasheet is compelling tho
2024-02-01T01:17:22 < Ecco> Do you think Nordic is the way to go?
2024-02-01T01:19:49 < ventYl> nrf52 is full of fuck
2024-02-01T01:20:58 < Ecco> ok :-D
2024-02-01T01:21:01 < ventYl> its errata sheet is a mandatory reading there
2024-02-01T01:21:08 < ventYl> if you won't get anxiety after reading it, proceed
2024-02-01T01:21:28 < ventYl> slight advantage is, that you can use nimble instead of nordic's softdevice
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2024-02-01T02:32:05 < jbo> damit ST why you no provide linkerscripts and startup files for STM32H7A3?!
2024-02-01T02:40:50 < ventYl> cube them out!
2024-02-01T02:51:55 < jbo> what do you mean?
2024-02-01T02:52:00 < jbo> does CubeMX desktop crap generate them?
2024-02-01T02:52:04 < jbo> I am looking at their github repo 
2024-02-01T02:52:12 < jbo> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeH7
2024-02-01T02:52:35 < jbo> they provide linker scripts for several h7 chips but not h7a3/h7b3
2024-02-01T02:52:38 < ventYl> I understand that cube will generate project skeleton including linker script and startup code
2024-02-01T02:53:06 < ventYl> if you get lucky, you may find linker script for your chip in some of the examples provided with cuba
2024-02-01T02:54:12 < mawk> yes cubemx generates these things jbo 
2024-02-01T02:54:25 < mawk> it generates linker script, makefiles, assembly crap for the initialization
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2024-02-01T02:55:06 < jbo> hmmm
2024-02-01T02:58:08 < jbo> I hate that MX stuff so much :D
2024-02-01T02:58:20 < ventYl> yeah
2024-02-01T02:58:43 < ventYl> I have never used it. For quite some time I boycotted it. Then I wanted to use it, but it didn't work.
2024-02-01T02:59:50 < mawk> you were probably using it wrong
2024-02-01T02:59:55 < mawk> it always worked out of the box
2024-02-01T02:59:57 < mawk> true magic
2024-02-01T03:00:23 < ventYl> it didn't even start
2024-02-01T03:00:44 < mawk> are you trying to run it on something very exotic?
2024-02-01T03:00:49 < mawk> even on my laptop it runs
2024-02-01T03:00:52 < mawk> it packages its own JRE
2024-02-01T03:01:41 < ventYl> I am not trying to run it anymore :)
2024-02-01T03:02:19 < mawk> you secretly sabotaged it
2024-02-01T03:02:26 < mawk> so you could say it didn't work
2024-02-01T03:12:10 < jbo> wtf enabling D & I cache immediately makes the power consumption double
2024-02-01T03:12:12 < jbo> I did not expect that
2024-02-01T03:14:14 < qyx> did I tell you use a low power family?
2024-02-01T03:14:17 < qyx> :p
2024-02-01T03:14:28 < jbo> yes :p
2024-02-01T03:14:39 < jbo> still better than SAMA5D
2024-02-01T03:14:45 < jbo> plus I am running full clock HSE atm
2024-02-01T03:15:12 < Ecco> job: Maybe the H7 is using a prefetcher?
2024-02-01T03:15:16 < Ecco> jbo, sorry
2024-02-01T03:15:17 < Ecco> BTW
2024-02-01T03:15:59 < Ecco> when using memory-mapped QSPI flash memory, the prefetcher *will* make random requests *outside* of the chip's range, resulting in weird random crashes
2024-02-01T03:16:13 < Ecco> the way to fix this is to prevent access outside the chip's "bounds" with the MPU
2024-02-01T03:16:20 < Ecco> (the docs are *extremely* lacking on that matter)
2024-02-01T03:17:16 < Ecco> Also, yes, CubeMX is shit
2024-02-01T03:17:23 < Ecco> but I do like their interactive clock visualization
2024-02-01T03:17:28 < Ecco> I wish it'd been a simple web page
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2024-02-01T03:22:15 < jbo> Ecco, when the H7 was first released, I was dealing about 5 weeks with ST because they had a bug in their XIP (we found it, they denied it, then they no longer denied it)
2024-02-01T03:22:38 < jbo> Ecco, +1 a thousand times regarding the clock tree thingy being a simple web page. that things is really useful. 
2024-02-01T03:24:21 < Ecco> :)
2024-02-01T03:24:39 < Ecco> damn, what bug was it?
2024-02-01T03:24:58 < Ecco> The one I mentionned was on F7. Not really a bug tho, just a huge lack of specs.
2024-02-01T03:25:07 < jbo> nah this was a silicon bug
2024-02-01T03:25:14 < Ecco> damn, that's bad
2024-02-01T03:25:15 < jbo> in speculative fetching & execution
2024-02-01T03:25:22 < Ecco> so same area
2024-02-01T03:25:24 < Ecco> what did it do?
2024-02-01T03:26:12 < jbo> stupid shit
2024-02-01T03:26:24 < jbo> (02:30 here, can't recall the details, was three years ago)
2024-02-01T03:26:38 < Ecco> oh ok :)
2024-02-01T03:26:41 < Ecco> no worries :)
2024-02-01T03:26:53 < jbo> :D
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2024-02-01T11:09:51 < karlp> mawk: cubemx generated makefiles used to generate things with completley invalid paths, there's reasons people hate it.  they can fix it, but when they release things that are so wildly broken for basic use it's hard to have a lot of faith
2024-02-01T11:10:50 < karlp> Ecco: I'd check  you have the correct blobs installed in the correct places.
2024-02-01T11:11:18 < karlp> Ecco: do you have one of their canned samples building and working? are you only having a problem when you "follow" their sample code?
2024-02-01T11:25:10 < mawk> yeah cubemx makefiles used to break because of missing escape characters sometimes for me
2024-02-01T11:25:24 < mawk> I had to make a whole fix-makefile.sh script for that
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2024-02-01T11:40:20 < machinehum> I spent a long time fucking around with dhcpcd trying to get it to issue me an ipv4 address on my little D1
2024-02-01T11:40:23 < machinehum> https://lore.kernel.org/buildroot/20240130220739.61B4586735@busybox.osuosl.org/T/#u
2024-02-01T11:40:30 < machinehum> turns out that version is just busted
2024-02-01T11:40:45 < machinehum> By long time I mean upwards of 2hrs
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2024-02-01T11:52:52 < Steffanx> You mean 2 days.
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2024-02-01T11:58:34 < karlp> mawk: so.... "00:59:55         mawk | it always worked out of the box
2024-02-01T11:58:44 < karlp> you're just simping for cubemx?
2024-02-01T11:58:53 < karlp> what, does ST keep in drugs or something?
2024-02-01T12:01:44 < machinehum> Steffanx: Yeah around two days I want just trying to seem cool on the internet
2024-02-01T12:04:27 < karlp> cool nxp, do a usb to canfd demo app. use a completely new usb protocol, intead of slcan or the other usb can adapater interface... https://github.com/nxp-appcodehub/an-usb-to-can-adaptor-mcxn947
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2024-02-01T12:20:48 < qyx> owon psu arrived \o/
2024-02-01T12:20:56 < qyx> ok not bad, not good
2024-02-01T12:21:55 < jpa-> P4603 or something else?
2024-02-01T12:22:19 < qyx> spe3102
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2024-02-01T12:26:21 < qyx> it is the first switched mode lab psu I ever used
2024-02-01T12:26:27 < qyx> so it feels a bit cheap
2024-02-01T12:59:11 < qyx> also, there is no power switch on the front panel
2024-02-01T13:03:02 < qyx> hm I need to make/buy some switchable extension power cords
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2024-02-01T14:11:13 < zyp> qyx, why would you get that over a rd60xx?
2024-02-01T14:11:58 < zyp> or even a rk6006
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2024-02-01T14:47:04 < karlp> or ka3005 family, which is well regarded linear, I guess they needed all 10A?
2024-02-01T14:47:54 < karlp> rd60xx is bigger and more of a hassle to get and assemble compared to click on eleshop though I guess...
2024-02-01T14:48:24 < karlp> speaking of power consumption, I'm looking at the "battery modes" of one of these devices, which allegedly work(ed) but clearly doesn't...
2024-02-01T14:48:52 < karlp> and so, right up front, freertos isn't running in tickless or anything, and even if it was, I can't do wfi or anything in idle, because.....
2024-02-01T14:49:25 < karlp> they calculate the "cpu usage" every second, based on.... having a free rtos idle hook that does "tickidle++" at full speed.
2024-02-01T14:49:29 < karlp> not... all bad I guess.
2024-02-01T14:49:38 < karlp> but guess how they work out a cpu usage from that?
2024-02-01T14:50:03 < karlp> that's right, block startup for a whole second while they count the max count it reaches before they start the rest of the tasks.
2024-02-01T14:50:13 < karlp> who just blocks everything all the time like this, it's so garbage.
2024-02-01T14:54:37 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bga_0.8mm.png  this layout feels wiggly
2024-02-01T15:00:44 < jpa-> karlp: lol; i do cpu load in idle task like this:  https://gist.github.com/PetteriAimonen/cf9d2ef431b8abee3d8b96f11961c8ab
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2024-02-01T15:07:45 < karlp> taht assumes that if you're idle, it will make that loop in less than a usec?
2024-02-01T15:08:22 < karlp> you just have your own low prio task then. 
2024-02-01T15:15:39 < jpa-> yeah, that's the basic assumption
2024-02-01T15:16:03 < jpa-> you could still do WFI() if power is important, just need to do the wakeup so that you can take tick count before handling the interrupt
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2024-02-01T15:34:25 < ventYl> karlp: that sounds like ancient linux kernels calculating bogoMIPS
2024-02-01T15:36:46 < karlp> it's likely a similar vintage.
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2024-02-01T16:20:26 < Ecco> Have you guys ever used SRAM parity check?
2024-02-01T16:20:53 < Ecco> Is it kind of like a cheap version of ECC?
2024-02-01T16:21:00 < Ecco> And, more importantly, is it really useful?
2024-02-01T16:22:19 < jpa-> what will you do when you hit a parity error?
2024-02-01T16:25:57 < Ecco> I guess… reboot?
2024-02-01T16:31:20 < jpa-> then it depends on your analysis whether an uncorrected memory error is probable and critical enough that it would be useful to reboot automatically if it happens
2024-02-01T16:32:16 < jpa-> for most safety-critical applications you would have another layer of safety to do it anyway, but i guess similar to enabling watchdog, there is nothing to lose enabling memory parity if it is included in hardware
2024-02-01T16:32:23 < jpa-> i wouldn't pay extra for it
2024-02-01T16:33:14 < ventYl> Ecco: automotive at ASIL3 and above does various cringe with data to detect single bit flips
2024-02-01T16:33:30 < ventYl> erm, ASIL C, maybe even at ASIL B
2024-02-01T16:36:03 < jpa-> having separate software-level checksums and shadow variables is more effective than memory parity though, because it also protects against writes through dangling pointers
2024-02-01T16:36:33 < ventYl> and you can implement security through obscurity if you are brave enough
2024-02-01T16:44:12 < qyx> zyp: I wanted a "normal" lab supply
2024-02-01T16:44:21 < qyx> not a half-working one
2024-02-01T16:45:40 < qyx> I am not saying I don't like switch mode, I like it, but it feels like there is nothing inside
2024-02-01T16:46:23 < qyx> also, I was raging about freertos cpu usage calculation recently
2024-02-01T16:46:36 < qyx> it is all wrong
2024-02-01T16:59:21 < qyx> and regaring sram parity check, last week one measuring device reported one single result 10e12 times bigger
2024-02-01T16:59:52 < qyx> I will need to check the whole computation chain to find out if it is a single bit upset or something else
2024-02-01T17:08:23 < karlp> rd60xx is "normal" it just has to be assembled
2024-02-01T17:09:15 < qyx> anyway, I also got a cheap lolwon dmm with bluetooth
2024-02-01T17:09:23 < qyx> I can read it with nRFconnect app
2024-02-01T17:11:09 < Ecco> qyx: Mind sharing a link?
2024-02-01T17:11:31 < Ecco> Something like this? https://www.owon.com.hk/products_owon_3_5%7C6_digital_multimeter_with_bluetooth
2024-02-01T17:14:17 < qyx> ow18b
2024-02-01T17:15:27 < Ecco> https://www.amazon.com/OW18B-Bluetooth-Multimeter-Flashlight-Temperature/dp/B07C5CWBWX
2024-02-01T17:15:31 < Ecco> LOL it has a flashlight?
2024-02-01T17:15:36 < Ecco> And a True RMS button ??
2024-02-01T17:15:47 < qyx> that's not a button
2024-02-01T17:15:47 < Ecco> Reminds me of the "Turbo" button on 386 :-D
2024-02-01T17:15:54 < Ecco> oh ok :-D
2024-02-01T17:16:02 < qyx> at least I can't push it
2024-02-01T17:16:08 < qyx> but I didn't try hard enough
2024-02-01T17:16:13 < Ecco> :-)
2024-02-01T17:25:18 < Ecco> Damn, I'm still struggling with this radio clock thing
2024-02-01T17:25:22 < Ecco> I've read the refman
2024-02-01T17:26:28 < Ecco> and I have no clue why the flag "radioclkrdy" remains false
2024-02-01T17:26:45 < karlp> 09:10:50        karlp | Ecco: I'd check  you have the correct blobs installed in the correct places.
2024-02-01T17:26:47 < karlp> 09:11:18        karlp | Ecco: do you have one of their canned samples building and working? are you only having a problem when you "follow" their sample code?
2024-02-01T17:27:12 < Ecco> oh, sorry, I missed that
2024-02-01T17:27:20 < Ecco> So, I'm using WBA which has no blobs
2024-02-01T17:27:29 < Ecco> it's really just a static library that you embed in your own firmware
2024-02-01T17:27:43 < Ecco> (and then you have to call some setup function and implement some callbacks) 
2024-02-01T17:27:48 < Ecco> (the doc is shit, but well)
2024-02-01T17:27:58 < Ecco> I do have one of their samples building and working
2024-02-01T17:28:13 < Ecco> For some reason, I can't attach a debugger when their sample is running
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2024-02-01T17:28:36 < Ecco> So that doesn't really help
2024-02-01T17:28:41 < Ecco> I'm trying to follow their sample
2024-02-01T17:28:41 < karlp> does the static library have to be linked at a certain location?
2024-02-01T17:28:48 < Ecco> karlp: not that I know of
2024-02-01T17:28:52 < karlp> I would check...
2024-02-01T17:29:47 < Ecco> How could I know?
2024-02-01T17:29:55 < Ecco> You think it's in their linker script in the sample code?
2024-02-01T17:29:56 < Ecco> Let me check
2024-02-01T17:31:04 < Ecco> Yeah, no, nothing like that
2024-02-01T17:31:27 < Ecco> but I mean, in a certain way, the problem doesn't even need using their library
2024-02-01T17:31:48 < Ecco> It looks very much like the HSEON/HSERDY bits
2024-02-01T17:31:54 < Ecco> There's a RADIOEN bit
2024-02-01T17:31:56 < Ecco> that I toggle
2024-02-01T17:32:03 < Ecco> and I block-wait after RADIORDY
2024-02-01T17:32:09 < Ecco> except… it never comes up
2024-02-01T17:32:15 < Ecco> I'm not even using their library at this point
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2024-02-01T18:26:12 < Ecco> Side question: ST's sample code sets the HSE trimming to a default value of 0x0C
2024-02-01T18:26:34 < Ecco> But on reset the trimming register is 0x20
2024-02-01T18:26:39 < Ecco> Why would they change it?
2024-02-01T18:44:38 < zyp> karlp, rk6006 is even sold preassembled
2024-02-01T18:45:26 < zyp> qyx, I doubt owon beats it on any quality metric
2024-02-01T18:46:29 < zyp> the owon dmm I bought is not particularly impressive
2024-02-01T18:50:25 < qyx> yeat this one neither
2024-02-01T18:50:39 < qyx> it is considerably worse than my 12y old scope
2024-02-01T18:50:45 < qyx> mechanically-wise
2024-02-01T18:51:01 < qyx> also worse than the pro uni-t I have since uni
2024-02-01T19:00:35 < zyp> I like my rd6024 way better than my linear lab supply
2024-02-01T19:01:21 < zyp> I mean, linear supply probably has a way cleaner output, but the ui sucks (and the encoder doesn't work properly, probably needs cleaning)
2024-02-01T19:01:56 < zyp> I very much like having number keys to enter voltage/current directly 
2024-02-01T19:06:43 < qyx> nah I'll bear with it, I'll probably only use memory presets
2024-02-01T19:06:56 < qyx> my main use for it is for charging various things
2024-02-01T19:08:33 < qyx> Ecco: so you are not doing any specific ble setup except toggling radio en?
2024-02-01T19:08:38 < qyx> have you checked RCC?
2024-02-01T19:08:42 < qyx> SYSCFG too?
2024-02-01T19:09:56 < Ecco> yeah, I have triple-checked RCC
2024-02-01T19:10:02 < Ecco> didn't look at SYSCFG at all tho
2024-02-01T19:10:10 < Ecco> and yes, that's correct, I'm not doing anything BLE-specific at this point
2024-02-01T19:10:16 < Ecco> really jsut trying to toggler RADIOEN
2024-02-01T19:11:14 < Ecco> Do you have something specific in mind regarding SYSCFG?
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2024-02-01T19:21:38 < qyx> refman usually says whats the correct sequence
2024-02-01T19:28:05 < qyx> on first sight it looks like you forgot to enable power to the radio
2024-02-01T19:28:26 < Ecco> hmm, interesting
2024-02-01T19:28:36 < Ecco> ok let me check this part then :)
2024-02-01T19:29:26 < qyx> RCC_RADIOEN?
2024-02-01T19:30:07 < qyx> there are multiple, bus clock, kernel clock
2024-02-01T19:31:11 < Ecco> Yeah, I've enabled all those
2024-02-01T19:31:36 < Ecco> PWR_RADIOSCR has a bunch of fields but it's read only
2024-02-01T19:31:42 < Ecco> I may as well try and read it, just to see
2024-02-01T19:31:43 < qyx> there is also a whole chapter about the radio subsystem in the pwr section
2024-02-01T19:32:00 < qyx> radio power subsystem
2024-02-01T19:32:29 < Ecco> yes
2024-02-01T19:33:58 < qyx> nah
2024-02-01T19:36:42 < zyp> tesla driver saved by sauna https://tv.vg.no/video/284765/tesla-havnet-i-oslofjorden-som-i-en-skrekkfilm
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2024-02-01T20:06:53 < qyx> what did he do?
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2024-02-01T22:02:37 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a typical algorithm that calipers or other percision sensors/instruments use?
2024-02-01T22:02:55 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- mentioned trimmed mean which looks like a good idea
2024-02-01T22:03:17 < ColdKeyboard> But basically I'm looking to make the reading not "jittery" :)
2024-02-01T22:04:02 < qyx> I am not using any special algo, I just made the instrument precise
2024-02-01T22:04:16 < qyx> so that the output stddev is much lower than required by the spec
2024-02-01T22:05:46 < qyx> having the reading jittery means your instrument may be accurate but is imprecise
2024-02-01T22:06:29 < qyx> and if the precision is lower than the accuracy of an instrument, it is kinda bad design
2024-02-01T22:09:10 < qyx> so.. and shit precision is usually caused by a noise in the output, there are different kinds of noise and each can be coped with using a different algo
2024-02-01T22:09:51 < qyx> your measurement may have some normal-distributed (white) noise, decimation usually works (by averaging)
2024-02-01T22:10:04 < qyx> or moving average, or exponential moving average
2024-02-01T22:10:19 < qyx> you may have 1/f noise, then averaging doesn't help much
2024-02-01T22:10:31 < qyx> you have to remove the wandering offset
2024-02-01T22:10:51 < qyx> usually by measuring in both polarities, averaging those two
2024-02-01T22:11:12 < qyx> or introducing an AC carrier, but idk if it applies
2024-02-01T22:11:44 < qyx> you may have some aliasing, again averaging does not help
2024-02-01T22:12:55 < qyx> (depends)
2024-02-01T22:13:25 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks qyx
2024-02-01T22:13:52 < ColdKeyboard> I have a ADC reading that is coming from hall sensor that is excited by magnet at X distance from it
2024-02-01T22:14:42 < qyx> and you are trying to get the distance?
2024-02-01T22:14:42 < ColdKeyboard> The ADC value does not fluctuate, or sometimes it would change by 1-2 but that might be due to mechanical build
2024-02-01T22:14:59 < ColdKeyboard> Right now I'm using average. And I'm not sure if that's the best algo 
2024-02-01T22:15:30 < ColdKeyboard> Basically I'm happy right now. But I'm curious if I used stddev, mean or something else, would I get even better accuracy
2024-02-01T22:16:20 < qyx> you will most probably not get better accuracy, but you may get better precision
2024-02-01T22:16:45 < qyx> you must account for the device orientation if not fully shielded (earth's magnetism)
2024-02-01T22:16:46 < ColdKeyboard> Any particular algo you would recomend ?
2024-02-01T22:16:58 < qyx> large current carrying conductors generate magnetic fields too
2024-02-01T22:17:20 < qyx> halls have hysteretic behaviour too
2024-02-01T22:17:34 < qyx> so it depends whether the magnet was approaching or going away
2024-02-01T22:17:50 < qyx> those things you cannot eliminate using software
2024-02-01T22:18:01 < ColdKeyboard> That's a good point
2024-02-01T22:19:49 < qyx> are you required to implement this particular method? (magnet + hall)
2024-02-01T22:20:05 < qyx> I guess you are trying to avoid optics
2024-02-01T22:20:33 < ColdKeyboard> I'm building my own version of filament diameter sensor based on this design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYgdLPe_T0c
2024-02-01T22:21:50 < qyx> do you know LVDTs?
2024-02-01T22:22:02 < ColdKeyboard> No. What's that?
2024-02-01T22:22:40 < ColdKeyboard> Linear variable differential transformer?
2024-02-01T22:23:00 < qyx> yes
2024-02-01T22:23:07 < qyx> this is most commonly used to sense displacement
2024-02-01T22:23:46 < qyx> it is relatively easy to do, just a bit of tube, wind 3 windings on it
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2024-02-01T22:23:51 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.1d4.us/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvR0ZLdVFHV1hFQUVfVFlKLmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxsJmZvcm1hdD13ZWJw
2024-02-01T22:24:04 < qyx> and use a movable core inside with the length at least of the center winding
2024-02-01T22:25:20 < qyx> it requires a bit of electronics, not just an ADC
2024-02-01T22:32:18 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks for the suggestion. I'll read more about it
2024-02-01T22:44:17 < qyx> jpa- zyp any ready-made scpi tool that would allow me to read those psus?
2024-02-01T22:44:41 < zyp> the rd ones? idk, haven't tried
2024-02-01T22:45:43 < qyx> idk I guess it is not model/evndor specific?
2024-02-01T22:45:50 < qyx> hm it is a plain text format
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2024-02-01T22:56:05 < ColdKeyboard> Can you use built in qsort with uint32_t?
2024-02-01T22:56:18 < ColdKeyboard> I see that every implementation is returning int in the compare function :\
2024-02-01T22:57:07 < ColdKeyboard> Well I guess I should read the docs first :)
2024-02-01T22:58:34 < ColdKeyboard> The comparision function should return only -1, 0 and 1
2024-02-01T22:59:35 < karlp> zyp: I never found a pre-assembled version in the past. was always a bit of a faff around to get all the parts.
2024-02-01T23:00:02 < zyp> the rk6006 is only sold preassembled if you want the case, which is a bit silly
2024-02-01T23:00:12 < zyp> because now I've got a rk6006 without case :)
2024-02-01T23:02:51 < karlp> Imean, "pre-assembled" to me means, "with a damn case" :)
2024-02-01T23:03:04 < karlp> oh, you mean, they're no longer selling just the case?
2024-02-01T23:03:08 < karlp> huh, thigns change.
2024-02-01T23:03:25 < zyp> couldn't find just the case last I looked
2024-02-01T23:03:30 < karlp> qyx: if you're just going to use one instrument, you're probably better off just directly sending scpi commands yourself.
2024-02-01T23:03:57 < karlp> I used pythong sigrok bindings for some stuff where I had two different psus to control, but the better way would have been to just buy two of the same sort :)
2024-02-01T23:05:03 < karlp> https://rdtech.aliexpress.com/store/923042/pages/all-items.html not whwat you were looking for?
2024-02-01T23:05:57 < zyp> was that the right link?
2024-02-01T23:06:13 < karlp> rdtech.ali -> case psu cable accessory section?
2024-02-01T23:06:41 < karlp> too many shitty webdevs forgot that sharing links is a thing.
2024-02-01T23:06:58 < zyp> ah, https://rdtech.aliexpress.com/store/923042/pages/all-items.html?productGroupId=40000001287038
2024-02-01T23:07:05 < zyp> and no, I said rk, not rd
2024-02-01T23:07:23 < zyp> i.e. this thing: https://rdtech.aliexpress.com/store/923042/pages/all-items.html?productGroupId=40000004009922
2024-02-01T23:07:36 < karlp> oh, the little compact one.
2024-02-01T23:07:39 < zyp> yep
2024-02-01T23:07:47 < karlp> yeah, one supply is enough for me ....
2024-02-01T23:08:11 < karlp> I should probably make work buy me one though, so I can bring my korad home and put it on the shelf to gather dust in peace...
2024-02-01T23:08:29 < zyp> I bought one, it's cute, if I had an instrument rack I'd make a 1U panel with four of those or something
2024-02-01T23:08:43 < karlp> my predecessor had two separate din rail 24V supplies hand wired to mains lying loose on the desk.
2024-02-01T23:08:49 < zyp> except I like the number keys on the rd
2024-02-01T23:08:55 < karlp> and alelgedly he was working on "battery mode" for one of these devices.
2024-02-01T23:09:15 < qyx> karlp: haha I know that setup
2024-02-01T23:09:18 < karlp> so I tossed all that and at least have it on my "spare" old korad, so I can see consumption all the time.
2024-02-01T23:09:24 < zyp> :)
2024-02-01T23:09:36 < qyx> wall bricks and DIN PSUs all the way
2024-02-01T23:09:40 < qyx> I have all kinds of them
2024-02-01T23:10:10 < karlp> one with with sticking rk6xx blocks into a rack is you onyl have the remote control via usb on the frront panel.
2024-02-01T23:10:28 < karlp> does the RK series hve modbus/bluetooth options?
2024-02-01T23:10:28 < zyp> they've also got wifi modules
2024-02-01T23:10:37 < karlp> good enough I guess.
2024-02-01T23:10:38 < zyp> yes, same module as the rd AFAICT
2024-02-01T23:11:27 < karlp> speaking of power saving, fun one this afternoon:  "power enable" pin control to the phy, right, good idea, phy can be like 50mA
2024-02-01T23:11:48 < karlp> and htis is hard power off the 3v3 for the phy, none of this "pwrdn" pin or anything.
2024-02-01T23:11:50 < karlp> except.....
2024-02-01T23:12:14 < karlp> some clever person came up with this system of the phy being the rmii master, and outputting the 50M clock for the esp32....
2024-02-01T23:14:14 < karlp> so, without trying to moan on #orbuculum, whatdo you think about cmsis-dap swo?
2024-02-01T23:14:26 < karlp> is it actually "hard"?because of where you have the trace stuff right now?
2024-02-01T23:15:07 < karlp> I need to write up a case why I think this important, even though I know orbtrace is really for trace, not just "a nice cmsis-dap + swo" device... :)
2024-02-01T23:16:22 < zyp> no, it's never been about it being hard, it's about whether it's worthwhile
2024-02-01T23:16:56 < karlp> ok, I'll write up a better case for it then...
2024-02-01T23:17:30 < zyp> I figure CMSIS-DAP SWO is just SWO data on the third endpoint, which you could probably get mostly by hacking the descriptors to put the existing trace endpoint in the CMSIS-DAP interface
2024-02-01T23:17:34 < karlp> would a desirable palce for that be a ticket? or....
2024-02-01T23:18:13 < zyp> plus handling the setup commands in the CMSIS-DAP code
2024-02-01T23:18:22 < zyp> and hooking that to the trace pipeline
2024-02-01T23:18:58 < zyp> I figure it should be pretty easy to hook up, but having it coexist with the existing trace pipeline would be more hassle
2024-02-01T23:19:21 < zyp> maybe later when we've got firmware controlling that
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2024-02-01T23:45:02 < karlp> has anyone ever found a china clone of https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/samtec-inc/FTSH-105-01-L-DV-K/1875039 ? 
2024-02-01T23:45:14 < karlp> (the 2x5@1.27mm with the partial shroud for keying)
2024-02-01T23:48:14 < zyp> nah
2024-02-01T23:48:42 < zyp> IMO go fully shrouded or skip the entire connector and go tag-connect
2024-02-01T23:48:47 < karlp> I've got some unshrouded ones on a board, and I discovered that you can connect the 2x5x1.27mm cables onto only _half_ the connector.
2024-02-01T23:49:11 < karlp> it's not a _huge_ deal, just "take care"
2024-02-01T23:49:53 < zyp> when I needed a socket for a devboard that didn't fit a fully shrouded one, I cut the ends off
2024-02-01T23:52:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TaCCz.jpg
2024-02-01T23:53:13 < karlp> is that an s23?
2024-02-01T23:53:28 < karlp> no, what, "SBC"
2024-02-01T23:53:37 < karlp> you know, never mind, I dont' need more ideas and thoughts :)
2024-02-01T23:53:40 < zyp> what's an s23?
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2024-02-01T23:54:10 < karlp> pfs2650 is a "system basis chip" designed to support entry/mid safety mcus like s23.
2024-02-01T23:54:17 < karlp> I just misread the fs26 page.
2024-02-01T23:54:27 < zyp> ah
2024-02-01T23:54:28 < karlp> NDA only, very nxp, such qualiteeee.
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2024-02-01T23:55:19 < zyp> wait, s23 or s32? this is s32k344
2024-02-01T23:55:21 < karlp> I've got a hot new mcxn947 boards coming because I can't control myself https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nxp-usa-inc/FRDM-MCXN947/22036137
2024-02-01T23:55:29 < zyp> this thing: https://www.nxp.com/design/design-center/development-boards/automotive-development-platforms/s32k-mcu-platforms/s32k344-evaluation-board-for-mobile-robotics-with-100base-t1-and-six-canfd:MR-CANHUBK344
2024-02-01T23:55:30 < karlp> I mean s32, I just typed badly.
2024-02-01T23:55:32 < karlp> (twice)
2024-02-01T23:56:33 < karlp> I was rummaging at work today, we have a sealed, in box f429 eval, totally unopened, I believe this was the alternative to the tm4c129 that was chosen as the k70 replacement for supply chain shit
2024-02-01T23:56:57 < zyp> haha
2024-02-01T23:57:12 < karlp> but also, an am335x starter kit, also sealed, neverbeen opened.
2024-02-01T23:57:15 < zyp> shame they went the wrong way
2024-02-01T23:57:24 < zyp> sounds like my devboard collection
2024-02-01T23:57:33 < karlp> yeah, well, k70 is back in stock, and now with 2035 lifetime committement, 
2024-02-01T23:57:48 < karlp> and it performs better, so I'm working on "does usb host actually work or not" for it.
2024-02-01T23:58:19 < karlp> because tm4c has by all measures, far worse lcd performance, far worse xternal memory performance, and has no i/d cache, so it' sjust worse in all ways.
2024-02-01T23:58:35 < karlp> but I'm glad they spent two years of covid doing a new version....
2024-02-01T23:58:53 < karlp> I always _open_ them at least, try them out.
2024-02-01T23:59:11 < karlp> plug them in, watch the demo, maybe do a blinky, but to jsut put them on a shelf, sealed, in box?
2024-02-01T23:59:17 < zyp> my most recent expensive unused devboard purchase is probably the certuspro-nx one 
2024-02-01T23:59:19 < karlp> wtf sort of work practice is that?
2024-02-01T23:59:20 < zyp> this one: https://www.latticesemi.com/products/developmentboardsandkits/certuspro-nxevaluationboard
2024-02-01T23:59:33 < karlp> oh, that looks fancy.
2024-02-01T23:59:45 < zyp> was an impulse buy that I didn't really think through
--- Day changed pe helmi 02 2024
2024-02-02T00:00:07 < karlp> I bought a (old really) frdm-k64 board, that I actually remember from yearrrrrrs ago, possibly even when I was just getting into embedded again, 
2024-02-02T00:00:22 < karlp> but now it' slike a $50 board (no longer being discounted for leaders any more I guess)
2024-02-02T00:00:50 < karlp> Imistakenly bought a k66 first, but that has the HS usb connected, which is a completely different driver...
2024-02-02T00:01:07 < zyp> I'm not sure certuspro-nx is likely to get supported by opensource tools any time soon, and I'm not sure what I'd use it for either
2024-02-02T00:01:40 < karlp> fucking mini-b?
2024-02-02T00:01:42 < zyp> and the crosslink-nx with builtin usb3 core seems much more intersting (although might have the samme issue with tool support)
2024-02-02T00:01:43 < karlp> what decade is this?
2024-02-02T00:02:12 < karlp> I have preciseyl two fpga dev baords, I've generally tried to restrain myself...
2024-02-02T00:02:21 < karlp> an old icestick, and... an orbtrace :)
2024-02-02T00:02:32 < zyp> orbtrace is not a devboard :)
2024-02-02T00:02:50 < zyp> but yeah
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2024-02-02T00:05:32 < zyp> when I got into fpgas again a couple of years ago, I started playing with the icestick and quickly found that too limiting, so I wanted an ecp5 board, but none were easily available at the time
2024-02-02T00:06:05 -!- jhg [~jhg@130.41.224.64] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2024-02-02T00:06:14 < zyp> so I ended up getting everything that turned up that seemed useful, and now I've got too many
2024-02-02T00:07:30 < karlp> I also have the perpetual (common aiui) issue of ideas and even $ budget exceeding mental capacity and hobbytime.
2024-02-02T00:07:37 < zyp> got an ulx3s first, but it's more a toy than a proper devboard, short useful IO
2024-02-02T00:07:59 < karlp> I had someone say "hey, can I pay you (something real, but still... small) so you can spend more time on libopencm3?"
2024-02-02T00:08:10 < karlp> like, sorry dude, money is _not_ the problem here....
2024-02-02T00:08:37 < karlp> unless you're goign to do like 4 orders of magnitude more or something.
2024-02-02T00:08:37 < zyp> then I got the ecpix-5 which is awesome and that I still use all the time
2024-02-02T00:09:16 < karlp> oh, I kinda liked the idea of the ulx3s, 
2024-02-02T00:09:16 < zyp> and a butterstick that seems really nice with the syzygy high performance IO, but that I've never really used because I don't have any syzygy modules to plug into it
2024-02-02T00:09:38 < zyp> and because the fucking samtec connectors are so expensive that it doesn't really make sense to make syzygy modules
2024-02-02T00:09:39 < karlp> yeah, syzgyszzz seemed like a solution looking for a problem
2024-02-02T00:09:48 < karlp> like, I get that pmod is limiting, but...
2024-02-02T00:09:51 < karlp> really? 
2024-02-02T00:11:09 < zyp> orbtrace-mini is kinda a result from the realization that it's cheaper to put a fpga on a board than a syzygy connector
2024-02-02T00:11:38 < zyp> was originally planning to make the target io side of orbtrace-mini as a syzygy module
2024-02-02T00:11:59 < karlp> lol
2024-02-02T00:12:33 < karlp> yeah, connectors and things lego is nice in principle, but... what is really saved?
2024-02-02T00:12:43 < zyp> I'm tempted to respin the syzygy standard into something using this: https://www.samtec.com/products/gmi
2024-02-02T00:13:35 < zyp> they're like $10 each, but reusable, which means I can spin cheap throwaway modules to test stuff
2024-02-02T00:13:36 < karlp> whee, that's groovy
2024-02-02T00:13:50 < karlp> do you jsut do like a LGA on each board?
2024-02-02T00:13:55 < zyp> yep
2024-02-02T00:13:59 < karlp> oh, that's ocol.
2024-02-02T00:14:05 < karlp> what's their cycle specs?
2024-02-02T00:14:09 < karlp> 10s or 1000s or what?
2024-02-02T00:14:31  * karlp downloads the pdf
2024-02-02T00:14:45 < karlp> fuck working on laks and scons and kinetistonight :)
2024-02-02T00:15:07 < karlp> so what, you need something exernal to hold the boards together still right?
2024-02-02T00:15:13  * qyx is freecading a tractor
2024-02-02T00:15:24 < qyx> or better to say, the
2024-02-02T00:15:35 < zyp> just put down a couple solder in standoffs on the fpga board and then it's just screw holes in the throwaway board
2024-02-02T00:16:08 < karlp> oh, those PTxxxx something solder in screw shits?
2024-02-02T00:16:13 < zyp> main reason I haven't drafted anything yet is because syzygy spec explicitly prohibits derivates
2024-02-02T00:16:19 < karlp> fuck em
2024-02-02T00:16:27 < zyp> and last year I ended up inventing FMOD instead
2024-02-02T00:16:28 < karlp> "inspired by"
2024-02-02T00:16:48 < karlp> fmod is always going to be a tracker to me sorry, what is fmod to you?
2024-02-02T00:17:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aizay.jpg <- the FFC cables here
2024-02-02T00:17:15 < karlp> 100 cycles.
2024-02-02T00:17:28 < karlp> yeah, fine for some dev board use, but not at all heavy duty.
2024-02-02T00:17:36 < karlp> probably fine though...
2024-02-02T00:17:47 < karlp> even 10 re-uses between projects is good?
2024-02-02T00:17:59 < karlp> and massively cheapens each board...
2024-02-02T00:18:13 < zyp> each 20 pin ffc connector is 10 grounds, two Vio and 8 signals like a double PMOD
2024-02-02T00:18:19 < karlp> hahah
2024-02-02T00:19:14 < zyp> decent signal integrity since grounds are interleaved and Vio is in the middle so it's fully symmetric, can just remap it in gateware if you want to flip the cable orientation
2024-02-02T00:20:36 < zyp> I settled on 8 signals per connector to keep it generic and not waste IOs on boards that needs less, running four cables between a pair of boards is no big issue
2024-02-02T00:20:56 < zyp> and it's trivial to make adapters from/to PMOD
2024-02-02T00:21:25 < zyp> might end up making some adapters and putting them up in the store at some point
2024-02-02T00:22:05 < zyp> I expect I'll use this on more projects, because I ended up buying 700 FFC cables :)
2024-02-02T00:22:26 < zyp> I wanted an assortment of lengths and each were MOQ 100
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2024-02-02T00:34:05 < karlp> who'd you buy them from? dongscables.cock?
2024-02-02T00:34:20 < karlp> I just got some from digi/mouser, or lcsc, was fine for proto quantities
2024-02-02T00:36:16 < zyp> yeah, I tacked them onto a big order of stuff from china, got like a 70kg box of stuff
2024-02-02T00:39:54 < karlp> hrm, I don't even have a china part number for plain shrouded, let alone ftsh-k stuff
2024-02-02T00:41:44 < karlp> ok, here's _a_ version then https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IDC-Connectors_XKB-Connectivity-X1270WVS-2x05A2-6TV01_C2972067.html
2024-02-02T00:41:47 < karlp> not great stock though
2024-02-02T00:45:31 < zyp> that looks wrong
2024-02-02T00:45:37 < zyp> 1.27x2.54mm pitch
2024-02-02T00:47:33 < karlp> does. this is better: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IDC-Connectors_XKB-Connectivity-X1270WVS-2x05B-6TV01_C2962219.html
2024-02-02T00:47:41 < karlp> still mediocre stock
2024-02-02T00:48:36 < zyp> how many do you need?
2024-02-02T00:48:56 < karlp> not many, just nice to find "the standard" part
2024-02-02T00:51:05 < zyp> I've got a couple hundreds of each (10p, 20p) sitting around here, mubes wanted a «lifetime supply» (100 of each) so they're just waiting for the next time I've got some other stuff to ship him
2024-02-02T00:51:42 < karlp> haha
2024-02-02T00:52:00 < karlp> I foudn this though: the partial shrouded key, but in the 20pin "trace" form... https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IDC-Connectors_Wcon-3132-20MG0BK00R1_C783846.html
2024-02-02T00:52:09 < karlp> NRND, only that arrangement...
2024-02-02T00:52:15 < karlp> but ... it exists!
2024-02-02T00:52:23 < karlp> even if it's nearly as expensive as samtec
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2024-02-02T00:53:50 < zyp> and if you just modify the part number a bit, here's what you wanted: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IDC-Connectors_Wcon-3122A-10MG0BK00R1_C920901.html
2024-02-02T00:54:12 < karlp> well, that's 2mm, and no stock, but yeah,
2024-02-02T00:54:19 < karlp> I just went to wcon's home page
2024-02-02T00:54:37 < zyp> oh, right
2024-02-02T00:55:24 < zyp> here's the right one: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IDC-Connectors_Wcon-3132-10MG0BK00R2_C783843.html
2024-02-02T00:56:19 < karlp> sure, but.. you can't buy it.
2024-02-02T00:56:27 < karlp> like I said, I can find it on wcon's page...
2024-02-02T00:56:32 < karlp> https://www.wcon.com/product/3132-xxmxxbk00x2.html 
2024-02-02T00:56:36 < karlp> 3d models and everything
2024-02-02T00:57:39 < zyp> you could ask dongs, my experience is that they can source pretty much everything
2024-02-02T00:58:45 < zyp> or if you'd like, I can tack it onto an order I'm doing soon, and reship it to you when I get it
2024-02-02T00:59:23 < karlp> yeah, I know that's an option 
2024-02-02T00:59:26 < karlp> not that important
2024-02-02T00:59:33 < karlp> now that I know it exists.
2024-02-02T00:59:58 < karlp> are you doing your own bulk china sutff for arcadein shit still? or .no hakker space or $work?
2024-02-02T01:00:19 < karlp> and orbtrace I guess too...
2024-02-02T01:01:56 < zyp> haven't done arcin for years, but I'm getting some other stuff done for a client, some toy stuff and some nice to have parts
2024-02-02T01:03:18 < zyp> I want some beefier motors for testing the motor controller shit I was doing, found some nice reasonably priced ones with absolute encoder
2024-02-02T01:04:20 < zyp> the 70kg stuff I did some months ago was mainly testjig parts for work
2024-02-02T01:04:39 < zyp> acrylic and bakelite is heavy…
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2024-02-02T01:14:50 < karlp> yeah, adds up quick for meaningful shit
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2024-02-02T01:30:34 < fenugrec> is there any USB-FS mcu smaller than the tssop-20 32F0* series ? need about 6-7 GPIO + USB
2024-02-02T01:30:59 < fenugrec> (USB-device)
2024-02-02T01:33:21 < qyx> physically smaller?
2024-02-02T01:33:28 < qyx> f042 in qfn28
2024-02-02T01:33:43 < karlp> ch32v203 is in qfn20, has tinyusb support aiui (not tried personally) 
2024-02-02T01:35:53 < fenugrec> qyx good point, didn`t know those came in qfn as well
2024-02-02T01:35:59 < karlp> the qfn20 is 3x3mm, in 0.4 mm pitch...
2024-02-02T01:36:37 < fenugrec> where are you guys seeing qfn20 and 28 though, my F042 says qfn48
2024-02-02T01:36:46 < karlp> I said _ch_32v...
2024-02-02T01:36:51 < karlp> not entirely what you were asking,
2024-02-02T01:37:03 < karlp> but you only actually asked for usb-fs mcu....
2024-02-02T01:37:11 < fenugrec> yes that`s true
2024-02-02T01:37:14 < karlp> sorry :)
2024-02-02T01:37:31 < fenugrec> ch3v could work, not sure about programmer support (does it have builtin dfu ?)
2024-02-02T01:37:47 < karlp> not dfu, 
2024-02-02T01:37:58 < karlp> it does have a romusb bootloader, but it's all special...
2024-02-02T01:38:41 < fenugrec> how special are we talking... "only works with 10GB IDE that only runs on win11" special ?
2024-02-02T01:39:32 < karlp> but yeah, stm32f042g is qfn28.
2024-02-02T01:39:54 < karlp> 4x4mm, 0.5mm pitch
2024-02-02T01:39:59 < qyx> which is 4x4?
2024-02-02T01:40:07 < karlp> f042g
2024-02-02T01:40:21 < qyx> yeas, I mran that is 4x4
2024-02-02T01:40:23 < qyx> fuk
2024-02-02T01:41:10 < karlp> stm32f042Ti s wlcsp36, glorious 2.605x2.703 0.4mm pitch.... :)
2024-02-02T01:42:00 < fenugrec> I guess I should update my copy of f042 DS
2024-02-02T01:42:30 < fenugrec> or just open the correct file, duh
2024-02-02T01:42:37 < qyx> there may be more ds for 042
2024-02-02T01:42:46 < qyx> *for f0
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2024-02-02T02:42:09 < fenugrec> lol, ch32v203 DS link broken on wch
2024-02-02T03:57:39 < Ecco> Have you guys ever used one of those chinese MCUs?
2024-02-02T03:57:42 < Ecco> Are they any good?
2024-02-02T04:02:55 < specing> AFAIK the chinese fixed some silicon bugs, so the way to test for counterfeits is if bugs are no longer present
2024-02-02T04:18:45 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone has experience shipping DIY PCBs to Brasil? :)
2024-02-02T04:19:15 < ColdKeyboard> I know shipping equipment to Brasil is logistics nightmare but I'm not sure if it's true for small PCBs
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2024-02-02T08:16:51 < jpa-> qyx: i have some stuff that i use with jupyter here: https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/labtools/blob/main/instruments/P4603.py
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2024-02-02T10:03:20 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, I sent an orbtrace order to brazil a couple of weeks ago
2024-02-02T10:07:28 < zyp> was no issue at all, only difference from any order DHL shipment I make was that there were an extra required ID number field, which the customer supplied their ID for
2024-02-02T10:07:33 < zyp> any other*
2024-02-02T10:18:23 -!- jadew [~rcc@5.12.175.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2024-02-02T10:24:48 < qyx> [287041.635677] hid-generic 0003:1A86:E008.0007: hiddev1,hidraw4: USB HID v1.00 Device [WCH.CN \x12 USB to Serial] on usb-0000:00:15.0-3/input0
2024-02-02T10:24:53 < qyx> hm, how to access this?
2024-02-02T10:26:37 < jpa-> does lsusb tell which chip exactly?
2024-02-02T10:27:22 < jpa-> maybe CH9326 or similar, seems there is no linux kernel driver
2024-02-02T10:27:26 < jpa-> probably easy enough with libusb
2024-02-02T10:27:47 < qyx> [287041.632545] usb 1-3: New USB device found, idVendor=1a86, idProduct=e008, bcdDevice=12.00
2024-02-02T10:27:50 < qyx> [287041.632556] usb 1-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
2024-02-02T10:27:53 < qyx> [287041.632561] usb 1-3: Product: USB to Serial
2024-02-02T10:28:02 < qyx> Bus 001 Device 007: ID 1a86:e008 QinHeng Electronics HID-based serial adapater
2024-02-02T10:28:41 < qyx> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Device_cables/Info
2024-02-02T10:28:42 < qyx> oh hey
2024-02-02T10:31:20 -!- jadew [~rcc@5.12.175.110] has joined ##stm32
2024-02-02T10:31:45 < qyx> WCH CH9325 USB/HID chip
2024-02-02T10:35:59 < jpa-> https://github.com/pklaus/ut61e_python/blob/master/ut61e/he2325u_hidapi.py  steal this
2024-02-02T10:36:29 < jpa-> or https://lukasschwarz.de/ut61b
2024-02-02T10:37:35 < qyx> yeah
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2024-02-02T11:58:34 < karlp> fecking losers using sizeof on an array, and expecting it to be the number of items.
2024-02-02T12:03:27 < jpa-> i wish C standard libraries would have a macro for that instead of having to always define sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0])
2024-02-02T12:05:43 < karlp> yeah, I saw that there was no entry for what I needed, but added an assert on the entry not being found, to catch it for the next time, and then ... wasn't getting my assert, was getting watchdog timeouts and crashes 
2024-02-02T12:06:07 < karlp> took me a good little session to notice that was just running off into the woods 
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2024-02-02T12:18:04 < zyp> jpa-, just stop using outdated languages
2024-02-02T12:18:09 < zyp> C++ has std::size()
2024-02-02T12:21:07 < karlp> baby steps :)
2024-02-02T12:21:15 < qyx> fuk c++
2024-02-02T12:21:26 < zyp> you're just jealous
2024-02-02T12:22:36 < karlp> I was going to complain that someone has a clang-format here that is set to indent: Allman, but then I saw some of the other options, and I'm just glad we're not on whitesmiths or gnu...
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2024-02-02T12:55:02 < qyx> pros, a buck fails to start
2024-02-02T12:55:24 < qyx> I remember I encountered this problem in the past when the power source was not "hard" enough during startup
2024-02-02T13:04:20 < qyx> nvm I populated 1k2 instead of 12k for Rt
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2024-02-02T13:09:46 < karlp> glad to help :)
2024-02-02T13:10:06 < karlp> found an old schematic for one of the first products here, it has a 6809 in it.
2024-02-02T13:10:47 < karlp> apparently superior to the 6502 and 6800, but far more expensive and coming out at the same time as 8086 and 68k.
2024-02-02T13:10:59 < karlp> wikipedia is unkind, "It was not feature competitive with newer designs and not price competitive with older ones." :)
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2024-02-02T13:15:14 < karlp> huh, rochester is making them again.
2024-02-02T13:15:20 < karlp> man, the legacy market must be wild 
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2024-02-02T13:18:43 < jadew> karlp, what's wrong with Allman?
2024-02-02T13:19:16 < karlp> too much vertical spacing for no reason.
2024-02-02T13:19:27 < karlp> } else  { on three lines is just stupid.
2024-02-02T13:20:05 < jadew> It's not... people who do brackets on the same line often use an empty line for vertical separation anyway - that is stupid.
2024-02-02T13:20:52 < karlp> you may continue to live in sin as you wish :)
2024-02-02T13:21:55 < jadew> Heh, I even remember the moment when I switched to brackets on new lines.
2024-02-02T13:22:38 < jadew> It was during a long programming session (30+ hours straight) - I was so tired, it became difficult to follow the code so I felt the need to rearrange it.
2024-02-02T13:22:38 < karlp> hrm, i wonder waht can open 1995 .dwg files.
2024-02-02T13:22:55 < jadew> That small change really made a difference in the state I was in at the time.
2024-02-02T13:23:25 < qyx> no, both bsd and linux says } else { on the same line
2024-02-02T13:23:27 < qyx> so it must be right
2024-02-02T13:24:17 < jadew> qyx, it's a weird choice, because it's also the reason why they then force everyone to use brackets all the time, even for single line statements.
2024-02-02T13:24:27 < qyx> yes, I do too
2024-02-02T13:24:29 < jadew> It's because when you use that style, you tend to miss brackets.
2024-02-02T13:24:40 < qyx> and all should do the same
2024-02-02T13:24:40 < karlp> I'm not sure how theyre' related, 
2024-02-02T13:24:53 < karlp> whether you have new lines for braces or not, you should always brace ifs.
2024-02-02T13:25:01 < jadew> No.
2024-02-02T13:25:07 < karlp> you may continue to live in sin as you wish :)
2024-02-02T13:25:10  * qyx grabs popcorn
2024-02-02T13:25:25 < qyx> jadew we are 2:1
2024-02-02T13:25:31 < jadew> The only reason people do that is because they miss brackets, and the reason they miss them, is because they're not used to immediately seeing if they are there or not.
2024-02-02T13:25:56 < jadew> You do not miss brackets with the Allman style, so you do not need to use them for single line statements.
2024-02-02T13:26:30 < zyp> I like always using brackets for consistency, less dicking around with bullshit when I add or remove a line
2024-02-02T13:26:55 < qyx> I also write comma after the last enum :P
2024-02-02T13:27:07 < zyp> same reason I always use a comma even after the last item in a list or whatever, and I hate json for not allowing that
2024-02-02T13:27:10 < jadew> For me they're optional - I use them on single line items if I feel it improves the readability.
2024-02-02T13:27:20 < karlp> I found out p-cad failed in the market.  they named their database ".pdf"
2024-02-02T13:27:21 < jadew> qyx, I write that comma too :P
2024-02-02T13:27:41 < jadew> lol karlp 
2024-02-02T13:27:52 < karlp> qyx: yeah, i use trailing commas always, shits me with json validation that it refuses the trailing.
2024-02-02T13:28:08 < karlp> it's always sucky when you're reordering or anything and have to add/remove commas for no reason.
2024-02-02T13:28:36 < qyx> I am doing it so the diff looks nicer
2024-02-02T13:28:41 < zyp> probably the biggest reason to prefer yaml over json for files that's human edited
2024-02-02T13:29:08 < qyx> fuk yaml
2024-02-02T13:29:22 < qyx> they are forcing spaces and I cannot live with that
2024-02-02T13:29:37 < zyp> uh, no?
2024-02-02T13:29:42 < qyx> I am stopping using python the day they force spaces
2024-02-02T13:29:55 < zyp> oh, as in tabs vs spaces?
2024-02-02T13:30:16 < qyx> yes
2024-02-02T13:30:28 < qyx> "Tabs have been outlawed since they are treated differently by different editors and tools. And since indentation is so critical to proper interpretation of YAML, this issue is just too tricky to even attempt."
2024-02-02T13:30:32 < qyx> this is so bullshitty
2024-02-02T13:30:50 < jadew> I didn't realize this until recently, but I have very strong feelings on the tabs vs spaces debate.
2024-02-02T13:30:58 < zyp> I used to have
2024-02-02T13:31:02 < jpa-> yeah, definitely spaces; tabs are annoying
2024-02-02T13:31:11  * qyx runs
2024-02-02T13:31:14 < karlp> yeah, yaml is lame.
2024-02-02T13:31:36 < karlp> lua tables instead...
2024-02-02T13:32:00 < qyx> I like this lgbti world
2024-02-02T13:32:07 < qyx> where we are all equal
2024-02-02T13:32:13 < jadew> i?
2024-02-02T13:32:33 < zyp> the way I see it, in a perfect world, tab would be the indention character, always and exclusively used for that
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2024-02-02T13:32:50 < qyx> that's correct
2024-02-02T13:32:53 < jadew> zyp, I see in the same way
2024-02-02T13:33:00 < zyp> but the world is not perfect, and I've concluded that I'm happier using spaces than dealing with a mix of tabs and spaces
2024-02-02T13:33:00 < jadew> Plus, all the arguments for spaces are wrong.
2024-02-02T13:33:26 < qyx> the only case for spaces is alignment
2024-02-02T13:33:34 < qyx> and only after then indenting tab
2024-02-02T13:33:37 < jadew> I wrote a plugin for atom that helped with that - I should port it to VS Code.
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2024-02-02T13:34:57 < zyp> so FWIW I'm happy that YAML actually decided to pick one over the other
2024-02-02T13:35:37 < zyp> because the most important style rule overall is consistency
2024-02-02T13:36:50 < zyp> I've considered running all my python stuff through https://github.com/psf/black
2024-02-02T13:36:51 < jadew> Spaces for indentation are wrong, in the same way tabs for alignment are wrong. If you're going to force everyone to use the same number of spaces for indentation, you can just as well force everyone to use the same length tabs for alignment.
2024-02-02T13:37:09 < zyp> but the style it enforces is a bit too far away from what I'm used to writing
2024-02-02T13:37:32 < jadew> zyp, aren't there customizable formatters?
2024-02-02T13:38:02 < zyp> yeah, but the whole point of black is that you don't have to deal with that, you get what you get
2024-02-02T13:38:15 < jadew> Yeah, I wouldn't like that.
2024-02-02T13:38:16 < zyp> and can spend your time on useful stuff
2024-02-02T13:38:32 < jadew> I like to break even my own style.
2024-02-02T13:39:09 < jadew> If it makes sense to write something a certain way, I'd like to do that. I doubt a script will be able to format code better than I can.
2024-02-02T13:39:23 < zyp> I don't like spending time on bikeshedding bullshit
2024-02-02T13:39:45 < jadew> So you just write code like an animal?
2024-02-02T13:40:28 < zyp> when I work on my own code, I write in the style that feels natural to me, when I work on others code I write in the style that the codebase already uses
2024-02-02T13:40:44 < qyx> I don't have that ability
2024-02-02T13:40:47 < qyx> I have OCPD
2024-02-02T13:41:04 < jadew> zyp, I can agree with that, yeah.
2024-02-02T13:41:10 < jadew> qyx, what's OCPD? :)
2024-02-02T13:42:13 < zyp> and I've also mostly stopped noticing whether a file is indented with two or four spaces, editor picks up whatever the file is using and prefixes indented blocks with a vertical line per level anyway
2024-02-02T13:42:51 < zyp> sometimes a codebase is messy and uses a mix of two and four and I don't notice until I copy some code from one file to another and it doesn't match
2024-02-02T13:43:11 < karlp> if you use vscode, and plug in clang-format,
2024-02-02T13:43:30 < karlp> you can edit how you like, and alt-tab away to flash, whatever, and it can just happily "fix" it all behind your back :)
2024-02-02T13:43:40 < karlp> (which is how this came up for me in the first place)
2024-02-02T13:45:17 -!- jadew [~rcc@5.12.175.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2024-02-02T13:46:15 < qyx> he did not :(
2024-02-02T13:47:08 < karlp> does that mean he lost?
2024-02-02T13:47:16 < karlp> nahhh.
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2024-02-02T14:00:44 < jadew> Just read the log
2024-02-02T14:01:12 < jadew> I was talking by myself. I thought I offended everyone and you guys fucked off.
2024-02-02T14:03:15 < zyp> haha
2024-02-02T14:03:42 < jadew> Felt really awkward for a while, was planning my apologies :)
2024-02-02T14:05:25 < jadew> Yeah, the moment you have a mix of number of spaces for indentation, as well as tabs & spaces for indentation, it probably means you have other things wrong in there, so it's not a bad idea to consider a formatter.
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2024-02-02T14:07:51 < jadew> I will try brackets on same line for my current file. Will report back with how much I hate it.
2024-02-02T14:08:44 < ventYl> surprise surprise, windows kernel debugger connection I've established yesterday didn't fall apart
2024-02-02T14:15:09 < jadew> ventYl, why is that a surprise?
2024-02-02T14:16:19 < jadew> Is it normally unstable?
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2024-02-02T14:31:53 < \dev\ice> I want to have two SPI NORs on g4 quadspi. looking at an4760, there is 2 nCS enabled. trying to understand - will it work as two separate flash or like combined one?
2024-02-02T14:34:50 < qyx> it depends on your software
2024-02-02T14:35:53 < qyx> some stm32s with dual quadspi controller allow merging two 4bit memories in parallel effectively doubling the data rate
2024-02-02T15:15:31 < \dev\ice> hmm. i just tried to generated this scenario on stm32cubemx ide and after chosing "dual bank with single/dual lines", only one option which work is by also selecting "enable chip select 1 for both banks". whith this enabled - I see only one setting (e.g. flash size). my expectations is to have two separate settings for each of bank
2024-02-02T15:23:27 < karlp> jadew: you certainly didn't offend me, not in the least.
2024-02-02T15:24:23 < jadew> karlp, you don't know what I've been saying while talking to myself.
2024-02-02T15:24:34 < jadew> I'm kidding :)
2024-02-02T15:25:21 < karlp> I don't, and therefore it doesn't matter :)
2024-02-02T15:25:37 < karlp> you can't actaully offend people if you don't say your thoughts ...
2024-02-02T15:25:39 < karlp> at least, IMO
2024-02-02T15:25:55 < qyx> I don't get it
2024-02-02T15:26:22 < karlp> i think jadew was cursing us out for being incompetent morons in front of his computer, and then felt bad for swearing at us
2024-02-02T15:26:34 < karlp> but he didn't type any of it in, soooo it might as well never have happened.
2024-02-02T15:26:59 < qyx> if jadew or you said I am a moron, I would not be offended
2024-02-02T15:27:16 < karlp> well, no, I wouldn't be either...
2024-02-02T15:27:17 < jadew> qyx, because you don't value our opinion anyway, right? :)
2024-02-02T15:27:30 < qyx> no, because you are generally not stupid
2024-02-02T15:27:34 < jadew> I wouldn't be offended either, but that's not what happened.
2024-02-02T15:27:41 < karlp> i wouldn't be offended, I'd probably feel sheepish, because it probably means I wa doign something moronic :)
2024-02-02T15:28:17 < karlp> in good news, jlink is just as fucking shit at rediscovering freertos structures after reflashing as openocd.
2024-02-02T15:28:32 < jadew> I just go disconnected while I continued the convo, and because nobody answered, I started analyzing what I said, thinking I might have said something bad by mistake.
2024-02-02T15:28:52 < karlp> "ooh, thread count is unreasonably large hey? how about maybe trying again after you load new symbols, instead of just aborting you lazy dipshit morons"
2024-02-02T15:29:00 < karlp> oh... hah
2024-02-02T15:29:45 < qyx> k setting 10.6 V/4 A on my new lolwon causes its fan to advertise wildly
2024-02-02T15:29:46 < karlp> > discover that stack overflow protection is not turned on in freertos.
2024-02-02T15:29:49 < karlp> > turn it on
2024-02-02T15:29:55 < karlp> stack overflows immediately...
2024-02-02T15:30:12 < karlp> such safety, much pro
2024-02-02T15:34:40 < ventYl> jadew: up until now both host and virtual machine guessed new IP addresses which would make the connection to fall apart
2024-02-02T15:36:12 < ventYl> karlp: but. but. jlink is a pro tool!!!1
2024-02-02T15:36:18 < karlp> ventYl: it so isn't.
2024-02-02T15:36:47 < karlp> I'm pretty sick of it lying about having flashed shit
2024-02-02T15:36:56 < karlp> and then ahnging when something locks up.
2024-02-02T15:37:07 < karlp> I've never had to unplug and power cycle my debugger as much as this shit.
2024-02-02T15:38:44 < ventYl> microsoft apparently approached writing their docs as a copywriting challenge
2024-02-02T15:39:28 < ventYl> help website for one visual studio dialog is 5 screens long copywriting gem. yet fails to describe what kind of shit that dialog contains and what it controls
2024-02-02T15:40:48 < ventYl> oh, it is wiki.
2024-02-02T15:40:50 < ventYl> gross
2024-02-02T15:48:25 < karlp> oh good. lots of validation and return codes for when thigns fail...
2024-02-02T15:48:35 < karlp> > return codes never checked, wrapped in functions returning void.
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2024-02-02T16:33:42 < Ecco> Hmm, I'm running into a super weird clock behavior
2024-02-02T16:33:54 < Ecco> I am using HSE as a SYSCLK source
2024-02-02T16:34:05 < Ecco> HSE runs at 32 MHz, but has a /2 prescaler
2024-02-02T16:34:57 < Ecco> Yet, the systick interrupt is called one per second if I set its reload value to 32 millions
2024-02-02T16:35:11 < Ecco> I would expect it to trigger every other second
2024-02-02T16:35:35 < Ecco> What could I be doing wrong?
2024-02-02T16:37:09 < qyx> did you check the clocktree
2024-02-02T16:42:00 < karlp> is this datasheet ~busted for everyone else too? https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2007281103_RCH-RC00234_C708601.pdf
2024-02-02T16:42:01 < Ecco> well, yeah, I did
2024-02-02T16:42:20 < Ecco> karlp: there's something at the bottom right
2024-02-02T16:42:33 < Ecco> if you zoom in there's a technical drawing for a RJ45-like connector
2024-02-02T16:42:38 < karlp> Ecco:32million doesn't fit into 24 bit as far as I can tell...
2024-02-02T16:42:43 < karlp> you need 25 bit for that.
2024-02-02T16:43:29 < Ecco> karlp: damn
2024-02-02T16:43:31 < Ecco> you're right
2024-02-02T16:44:26 < Ecco> so it's actually only taking the first 24 bits of 32e6
2024-02-02T16:44:47 < Ecco> which happens to be 15222784
2024-02-02T16:44:56 < Ecco> so if I run at 16MHz, that's indeed close to a second
2024-02-02T16:44:58 < Ecco> you good
2024-02-02T16:44:59 < Ecco> thanks!
2024-02-02T16:49:19 < jbo> hmmm
2024-02-02T17:13:02 < Ecco> Welp, the whole thing still doesn't make sense. There's a /8 prescaler in front of the cortex system timer
2024-02-02T17:13:07 < Ecco> so it should be 8 times slower :-/
2024-02-02T17:22:17 < Ecco> argh, damn, the SysTick's clock source can be configured
2024-02-02T17:22:30 < Ecco> it's not documented in ST's thing because it's an ARM thing :-(
2024-02-02T17:23:35 < ventYl> ST has Cortex-M programming manual
2024-02-02T17:23:56 < karlp> it's both.  there's a bit that says "sysclock, or "external"
2024-02-02T17:24:02 < ventYl> its actually +- verbatim copy of ARM Cortex-M programming manual
2024-02-02T17:24:03 < karlp> and st defines external to mean "/8"
2024-02-02T17:24:14 < karlp> other vendors do... other things.
2024-02-02T17:25:34 < ventYl> so, in the end, operation failed successfully. kernel debugger survived restart but is unusable with example project of audio driver
2024-02-02T17:25:44 < ventYl> I can neither deploy nor debug the driver
2024-02-02T17:26:17 < Ecco> ok makes sense. Thanks!
2024-02-02T17:29:51 < Ecco> That radio thing is killing me.
2024-02-02T17:30:05 < Ecco> I've no idea why that WBA won't let me enable the radio clock
2024-02-02T17:30:31 < Ecco> karlp said I may not have powered the radio subsystem
2024-02-02T17:30:37 < Ecco> that would make sense
2024-02-02T17:30:53 < Ecco> but I read the refman again, and I don't even know how I should even do this
2024-02-02T17:31:23 < fenugrec> haha so arrow.com blocks your account if you don't place an order regularly, and you have to call them so they can remove you from the penalty box. wtf
2024-02-02T17:31:31 < Ecco> wtf?
2024-02-02T17:31:34 < Ecco> why? :-D
2024-02-02T17:33:05 < karlp> yeah, i don't understand how arrow is still in business.
2024-02-02T17:33:41 < Ecco> I don't think I've ever used them. My latest WTF was discovering that Mouser offers free *international* shipping over $50, but will never offer free *domestic* shipping.
2024-02-02T17:36:36 < fenugrec> well arrow has this fancy IC for 33$ (next best is 47$), so they're getting my business this time
2024-02-02T17:38:21 < fenugrec> jadew:  monthly ping for that prescaler board : )
2024-02-02T17:39:59 < Ecco> $33? Better be fancy
2024-02-02T17:40:07 < Ecco> What does it do?
2024-02-02T17:41:38 < qyx> I like mouser's shipping
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2024-02-02T17:46:06 < Ecco> yeah, from Europe, it's pretty good :)
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2024-02-02T18:10:36 < Laurenceb_> supppppp
2024-02-02T18:13:34 < fenugrec> hmc862a
2024-02-02T18:15:01 < Laurenceb_> nice ic
2024-02-02T18:16:25  * Laurenceb_ is raging at Kalman filters
2024-02-02T18:17:02 < Laurenceb_> I have an extended kalman filter thats tuning up to small scale nonlinear features rather than giving a large scale fit to the data
2024-02-02T18:17:14 < Laurenceb_> dunno how to solve this problem
2024-02-02T18:17:40 < jpa-> why is kalman filter involved in "tuning up to features"?
2024-02-02T18:18:50 < jpa-> but considering it only keeps a single covariance matrix, it is prone to getting stuck in local minima if the cost function is not monotonic
2024-02-02T18:19:11 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.121.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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2024-02-02T18:27:24 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2024-02-02T18:27:36 < Laurenceb_> I'm trying to use it to fit a polynomial to sensor errors
2024-02-02T18:28:11 < Laurenceb_> its can work, but it can also fit incorrectly as its looking at local gradients
2024-02-02T18:28:44 < jpa-> i wonder if you could rearrange the parameters so that it is less likely to get into weird results
2024-02-02T18:31:59 < jpa-> for example, you could have it estimate error at 25%, 50% and 75% of full scale separately, and then perform polynomial interpolation based on that
2024-02-02T18:32:27 < jpa-> then it wouldn't end up predicting values at 75% from only observing the gradient at 25%
2024-02-02T18:32:31 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats how I'm handling it at the moment
2024-02-02T18:32:45 < Laurenceb_> I'm just wondering if there is a better solution to this
2024-02-02T18:33:26 < jpa-> it could help if you can define "better" :)
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2024-02-02T18:51:37 < Ecco> Is the clock system exported in SVD files?
2024-02-02T18:51:55 < Ecco> Is the "clock configurator" of CubeMX re-coded for each chip?
2024-02-02T18:52:07 < Ecco> Or is there a description language and some files that can be downloaded?
2024-02-02T18:54:05 -!- machinehum2 [~machinehu@213.55.222.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2024-02-02T18:55:08 < Laurenceb_> I can probably use unscented kalman and fudge the distribution
2024-02-02T18:59:28 < Ecco> holy shit
2024-02-02T18:59:31 < Ecco> Found my "bug"
2024-02-02T18:59:33 < Ecco> so, it turns out
2024-02-02T18:59:38 < Ecco> the radio will *not* turn on
2024-02-02T19:00:27 < Ecco> if you don't provide it with a sleep timer clock
2024-02-02T19:00:35 < Ecco> But… at the moment I don't care that it doesn't sleep
2024-02-02T19:00:36 < Ecco> well
2024-02-02T19:06:40 < jbo> zyp, ping
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2024-02-02T19:21:38 < qyx> oh assumptions..
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2024-02-02T19:57:45 < Steffanx> Just share your thoughts with all of use jbo. 😉
2024-02-02T19:58:03 < jbo> Steffanx, I want him to share his thoughts
2024-02-02T19:58:07 < jbo> him/her/them
2024-02-02T19:58:21 < jbo> I am obviously not assuming anyone's gender
2024-02-02T19:58:34 < Steffanx> Perhaps we can create his thoughts for him
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2024-02-02T19:59:04 < Steffanx> How's packing by the way?
2024-02-02T19:59:11 < machinehum3> What
2024-02-02T19:59:12 < machinehum3> Me
2024-02-02T19:59:13 < jbo> I'm not going
2024-02-02T19:59:16 < machinehum3> Oh
2024-02-02T19:59:34 < machinehum3> Sorry
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2024-02-02T20:00:18 < Steffanx> Lol machinehum3
2024-02-02T20:01:01 < jpa-> jbo: good, did you tell them to keep their stupid meetings online?
2024-02-02T20:01:26 < machinehum3> I installed IRC on my phone caus it's too awkward to pull out my laptop in a bar
2024-02-02T20:01:34 < machinehum3> And getting used to it
2024-02-02T20:01:52 < Steffanx> Anyway, I remember it did come up before but why did st make it impossible to dma to a gpio register in all their newer (low end) mcus?
2024-02-02T20:02:55 < jbo> machinehum3, are you trying to pick up desperate foreigners in a bar?
2024-02-02T20:03:26 < jbo> "what brought you here?"
2024-02-02T20:03:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: because they wanted software to be able to write to GPIO in single cycle while avoiding fast bus matrix
2024-02-02T20:03:46 < jpa-> poor choice IMO
2024-02-02T20:03:49 < Steffanx> That might make sense, but I still don't like it
2024-02-02T20:04:09 < machinehum3> I am the desperate foreigner 
2024-02-02T20:04:41 < jbo> going alone to a bar is a move I am not familiar with (although I probably should be) - so kudos to you
2024-02-02T20:04:43 < Steffanx> Just take a taxi to jbo and have some fun. Try to find the sun for example l.
2024-02-02T20:04:44 < qyx> wat no gpio dma anymore?
2024-02-02T20:04:50 < Steffanx> -l
2024-02-02T20:04:55 < machinehum3> Every single person on my train car was going to fosdem
2024-02-02T20:05:20 < jbo> Steffanx, can't do that every week :(
2024-02-02T20:05:28 < machinehum3> The only thing that outnumbered the amount of fedora laptop stickers was the number of fedoras worn
2024-02-02T20:05:51 < jbo> there's always that one BSD guy, trust me
2024-02-02T20:05:58 < jbo> decoy stickers
2024-02-02T20:06:04 < machinehum3> Lol
2024-02-02T20:06:07 < Steffanx> There's no sun there jbo ;)
2024-02-02T20:06:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: though it seems weird that they can have SRAM at 0 wait states, seems like putting GPIO on AHB should be fast then also
2024-02-02T20:06:53 < jpa-> maybe when they bought Cortex-M0+ IP core they saw the fancy "single-cycle IO port" and decided they must use it, even if it makes things worse
2024-02-02T20:08:41 < jbo> ST is basically the living poster child for feature creep
2024-02-02T20:09:03 < jbo> machinehum3, I have not showed you local bars yet
2024-02-02T20:09:13 < machinehum3> Not yet
2024-02-02T20:09:15 < machinehum3> I'm keen
2024-02-02T20:09:47 < jbo> you shouldn't be. the level of interestingness of our local bars is almost entirely dependent on who you go with
2024-02-02T20:10:05 < jpa-> RP2040 also has GPIO on single cycle IO port, but then they have the PIO that can be used for dma-to-gpio
2024-02-02T20:13:17 < Steffanx> That's why you will accompany him, jbo
2024-02-02T20:13:59 < Steffanx> But yes qyx. No gpio dma.
2024-02-02T20:14:01 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.]
2024-02-02T20:14:13 < jbo> awwww :3
2024-02-02T20:14:41 < machinehum3> @jbo: that's every bar
2024-02-02T20:14:53 < Steffanx> The pooling with jbo wasn't so bad. Even though we all sucked at it 😜
2024-02-02T20:15:11 < machinehum3> I've never been to bar an
2024-02-02T20:15:15 < machinehum3> Whoa 
2024-02-02T20:15:17 < machinehum3> Sorry
2024-02-02T20:15:18 < jbo> Steffanx, took machinehum3 there too - but we went for darts instead
2024-02-02T20:15:29 < jbo> also it was daylight time so vibes were bad lol
2024-02-02T20:15:35 < Steffanx> machinehum3 is blind now?
2024-02-02T20:15:36 < jbo> s/vibes/atmosphere
2024-02-02T20:15:43 < jbo> gotta go - meetings o/
2024-02-02T20:15:44 < machinehum3> Was nice 
2024-02-02T20:16:05 < machinehum3> Trying to think what a Canada bar scene would be like
2024-02-02T20:16:12 < machinehum3> Probably a brewery crawl
2024-02-02T20:18:21 < Steffanx> Isn't that happening everywhere?
2024-02-02T20:18:29 < machinehum3> Mmm
2024-02-02T20:18:31 < machinehum3> Nah
2024-02-02T20:18:56 < Steffanx> Everywhere with student nearby.
2024-02-02T20:18:59 < machinehum3> Basel has 200k people and three breweries, my home town has 20k people and 6 breweries 
2024-02-02T20:19:14 < Steffanx> Students.
2024-02-02T20:19:19 < machinehum3> Vancouver has like 50 breweries
2024-02-02T20:19:40 < machinehum3> In my experience in NA students have nothing to do with it
2024-02-02T20:24:50 < Steffanx> Not? When there are students there's a need of alcohol.
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2024-02-02T20:27:03 < machinehum3> We made baby cracker vodka in the bathtub
2024-02-02T20:27:47 < machinehum3> Alcohol is very expensive in Canada 
2024-02-02T20:28:02 < machinehum3> Thanks to ... Idk ... Taxes probably 
2024-02-02T20:28:16 < ventYl> quantify very expensive?
2024-02-02T20:28:25 < nomorekaki> ^
2024-02-02T20:29:25 < nomorekaki> https://taxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Beer_EU_2022.png
2024-02-02T20:29:43 < machinehum3> You can't get a 26oz for less than 26 Canadian Pecos 
2024-02-02T20:29:51 < machinehum3> Period
2024-02-02T20:30:04 < machinehum3> 26oz is like ... 750mL I think
2024-02-02T20:30:20 < machinehum3> 26 Canadian Pecos is like 20 euro
2024-02-02T20:30:20 < ventYl> didn't canada switch to metric system like... two generations ago?
2024-02-02T20:30:22 < Steffanx> !convert 26 Canuck pecos to eurobucks
2024-02-02T20:30:41 < nomorekaki> machinehum: from store or served?
2024-02-02T20:30:46 < machinehum3> ventYl I had this discussion with jbo
2024-02-02T20:30:59 < machinehum3> nomorekaki: from store
2024-02-02T20:31:11 < ventYl> ok, that's expensive
2024-02-02T20:31:21 < machinehum3> Canadian and units are mad retard 
2024-02-02T20:31:52 < nomorekaki> I have hard time believing you machinehum3
2024-02-02T20:32:13 < nomorekaki> that's absurd
2024-02-02T20:32:42 < machinehum3> Pool temp: F, outside temp: C, height: ft, driving distance: km, personal weight: lbs, other weight: kg
2024-02-02T20:32:53 < machinehum3> It got all fucked up by the us
2024-02-02T20:32:59 < machinehum3> Hard time believing what?
2024-02-02T20:33:16 < nomorekaki> are we talking about beer?
2024-02-02T20:33:20 < machinehum3> No
2024-02-02T20:33:22 < machinehum3> Liquor
2024-02-02T20:33:25 < Steffanx> Ooh
2024-02-02T20:33:29 < machinehum3> Like vodka or something 
2024-02-02T20:33:46 < ventYl> oh, so that's not that much expensive
2024-02-02T20:33:57 < machinehum3> But keep in mind that's this shittyest vodka
2024-02-02T20:34:06 < nomorekaki> https://taxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/EU-excise-duty-on-alcohol-2021-distilled-spirits-taxes-in-Europe.-2021-liquor-taxes-in-Europe.png 14eur tax in funland for 700ml
2024-02-02T20:34:24 < machinehum3> Looking around in swissarland hard alcohol is cheaper 
2024-02-02T20:34:59 < machinehum3> I bought a .75L for 11.- which is completely unfounded in Canada 
2024-02-02T20:35:18 < machinehum3> The shittyest nonsense starts at 26$
2024-02-02T20:35:42 < machinehum3> And that would make you wanna poke lil holes in your stomach 
2024-02-02T20:35:53 < ventYl> machinehum3: here in east-european land of nothing and corruption, dirtiest vodka in 0.7 pack costs some ~11 eur
2024-02-02T20:36:08 < Steffanx> Who drinks alcohol anyway
2024-02-02T20:36:17 < machinehum3> Me
2024-02-02T20:36:37 < zyp> jbo, pong
2024-02-02T20:36:58 < ventYl> now I'll have to burn this computer's browser because i've been searching for alcohol in delivery service of department store network
2024-02-02T20:37:09 < nomorekaki> https://www.alko.fi/tuotteet/101327/Koskenkorva-Viina-muovipullo/ cheapest ~40% 700ml in funland
2024-02-02T20:37:28 < nomorekaki> 21.48eur
2024-02-02T20:37:46 < Steffanx> You're home brewing for sure nomorekaki 
2024-02-02T20:37:52 < ventYl> moonshining
2024-02-02T20:38:09 < nomorekaki> I'm not that big on drinking
2024-02-02T20:38:38 < nomorekaki> I can buy myself hangover once a year or something
2024-02-02T20:38:58 < ventYl> for some reason people think it is good idea to bring me alcohol. so I basically have shitload of it. and I don't drink.
2024-02-02T20:39:18 < nomorekaki> that site is btw. funlands alcohol monopoly
2024-02-02T20:39:44 < nomorekaki> beer can be bought from stores but Alko is place for anything sharper than beer
2024-02-02T20:39:45 < ventYl> doesn't finland have similar alcohol consumption laws like .no?
2024-02-02T20:40:20 < ventYl> with liquerstores
2024-02-02T20:40:21 < nomorekaki> alcohol cannot be sold between 21 - 09 from store
2024-02-02T20:40:23 < Steffanx> I bought vodka in funland once, and I wasn't even allowed to do so. Such bad behavior 
2024-02-02T20:41:40 < nomorekaki> I think age for buying liqour is 20 but beer and stuff is 18
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2024-02-02T20:46:18 < nomorekaki> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Per-Capita-Alcohol-Tax-Paid-in-Various-European-CountriesData-source-Cnossen-2007_fig11_227374775
2024-02-02T20:47:27 < nomorekaki> milk that tax cow
2024-02-02T20:50:53 < Steffanx> Luckily we beat you on gas taxes, nomorekaki -_-
2024-02-02T20:51:17 < nomorekaki> how about car sales tax?
2024-02-02T20:51:33 < nomorekaki> something like 50% in funland
2024-02-02T20:53:11 < nomorekaki> 48.9%
2024-02-02T20:53:54 < Steffanx> 2nd hand too?
2024-02-02T20:54:16 < nomorekaki> no
2024-02-02T20:56:36 < nomorekaki> https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/carbon-taxes-in-europe-2023/ hmmmmmm!!
2024-02-02T20:58:51 < nomorekaki> UA 0.7eur per ton, SE 115eur per ton
2024-02-02T21:02:28 < nomorekaki> werent these carbon things transferable then
2024-02-02T21:05:09 < nomorekaki> 164times difference in price doesn't sound like it's transferable
2024-02-02T21:16:22 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://taxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Timbro-Effective-Marginal-Tax-Rates-in-Europe-FV-01.png there is some progress to be made.. 71% is not 100%
2024-02-02T21:19:20 < ColdKeyboard> Any recommendation for a USB2.0 4-port hub IC?
2024-02-02T21:19:55 < ColdKeyboard> I want to build a 10 port hub, so I'm thinking using three 4 port USB ICs and I should be good to go :)
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2024-02-02T21:36:43 < jpa-> microchip stuff has worked ok for me
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2024-02-02T21:39:22 < Ecco> Is any cryptography involved when advertising on BLE?
2024-02-02T21:40:23 < jpa-> by default no
2024-02-02T21:40:31 < jpa-> there is some encrypted advertising mode separately
2024-02-02T21:41:19 < Ecco> cool, thanks!
2024-02-02T21:41:35 < Ecco> So supposedly I got ST's BT stack to "run"
2024-02-02T21:41:48 < Ecco> At least it's doing stuff and I get a bunch of callbacks
2024-02-02T21:42:11 < Ecco> I don't really know what the next debugging step should be
2024-02-02T21:42:26 < Ecco> What's the "minimum signal" I should try and get?
2024-02-02T21:42:47 < jpa-> sending advertisements from the chip is usually the easiest "hello world"
2024-02-02T21:42:51 < Ecco> ok
2024-02-02T21:42:59 < Ecco> How would I receive this on the PC side?
2024-02-02T21:43:09 < jpa-> you run linux?
2024-02-02T21:43:10 < Ecco> I tried a WebBluetooth webpage
2024-02-02T21:43:17 < Ecco> linux and macOS
2024-02-02T21:43:18 < Ecco> and windows
2024-02-02T21:43:21 < Ecco> actually :)
2024-02-02T21:43:22 -!- nomorekaki [~nomorekak@37-219-126-217.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2024-02-02T21:44:34 < Ecco> I went there and clicked the "Connect" button. It lists a bunch of BT devices (and when running ST's sample app, my board does show up)
2024-02-02T21:44:37 < Ecco> https://applible.github.io/Web_Bluetooth_App_WBA/
2024-02-02T21:44:46 < jpa-> yeah, sounds good
2024-02-02T21:44:49 < Ecco> but when I'm using the library myself the device does not show up (juet yet, I guess)
2024-02-02T21:45:01 < Ecco> So this should be the easiest thing to get working?
2024-02-02T21:45:24 < Ecco> good
2024-02-02T21:45:40 < Ecco> I do have a spectrum analyzer
2024-02-02T21:45:46 < Ecco> (a cheap one)
2024-02-02T21:45:52 < jpa-> "sudo hcitool lescan --duplicates" will also show all received advertisements (without --duplicates it will only show first one per address)
2024-02-02T21:45:53 < Ecco> but I'm not sure it could help though
2024-02-02T21:45:59 < Ecco> ok cool
2024-02-02T21:46:28 < jpa-> you can easily pick up that it is transmitting if you just put spectrum analyzer near it
2024-02-02T21:47:10 < jpa-> should see periodic peaks at 2.4GHz
2024-02-02T21:48:10 < Ecco> wouldn't I get a lot of "false positives" though?
2024-02-02T21:48:16 < Ecco> Like my laptop doing WiFi or some other crap?
2024-02-02T21:48:38 < jpa-> depends on distance
2024-02-02T21:48:41 < Ecco> https://www.tinysa.org/ That's the one I have :)
2024-02-02T21:48:43 < Ecco> It's pretty fun
2024-02-02T21:48:54 < jpa-> yeah, i have tinysa ultra, it is nice
2024-02-02T21:49:54 < jpa-> signal strenght goes by 1/x² so if you have spectrum analyzer 2cm away and laptop 50cm away, it should be -28 dB less
2024-02-02T21:50:38 < Ecco> Yeah, makes sense
2024-02-02T21:50:55 < jadew> fenugrec, received, thanks :)
2024-02-02T21:52:04 < karlp> Ecco: easiest test client is nrfconnect app on a phone.
2024-02-02T21:52:18 < karlp> (by far)
2024-02-02T21:52:41 < karlp> but if webbluetooth works for you, great :)
2024-02-02T21:53:46 < Ecco> ok, let me try this app :)
2024-02-02T21:53:57 < Ecco> macOS has a "Packet Logger" app
2024-02-02T21:54:02 < Ecco> but it has so many settings…
2024-02-02T21:54:05 < Ecco> Too early for me I guess
2024-02-02T21:54:19 < jpa-> BLE packets are pretty short though, so it may be difficult to pick it up on tinysa unless you know the frequency and can put in CW mode
2024-02-02T21:54:24 < karlp> Ecco: sleep timers are kinda fundamental to bluetooth, there's _so much_ of it that is based on that, so yueyah, you might not care about it, but it still actually matters.
2024-02-02T21:55:15 < Ecco> jpa-: oh, good to know, thanks
2024-02-02T21:55:25 < Ecco> karlp: yeah, I guess. I'm just a total noob re Bluetooth
2024-02-02T21:56:22 < Ecco> the nRF connect app looks nice
2024-02-02T21:56:29 < Ecco> I wish it'd show the MAC address
2024-02-02T21:56:45 < Ecco> (I feel like that's one of the most basic data that would be transmitted)
2024-02-02T21:57:30 < karlp> look harder?
2024-02-02T21:58:32 < Ecco> :-D
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2024-02-02T23:54:49 < karlp> gak, tried a long standing task of restructuringmy scons/laks hacks into more layered, so they're not all hacked on top of each other, and I think I've run into scons relative/absolute issues.
2024-02-02T23:54:53 < karlp> meh, friday night, enough of this.
2024-02-02T23:56:10 < zyp> lmk later if you need help to work through it
2024-02-02T23:56:22 < karlp> nah, not right now.
2024-02-02T23:56:34 < karlp> it's related to this # thing for paths,
2024-02-02T23:56:58 < karlp> I'm not sure I've told it correctly about laks being in a sideways path now, and it's fucking up the jinja templating.
2024-02-02T23:58:21 < qyx> let's do a weekend job now
2024-02-02T23:58:29  * qyx drawing a seed bed heater PCB
2024-02-02T23:58:39 < qyx> full maker mode with esp32
2024-02-02T23:58:48 < karlp> esp32 is pro stuff. love it.
2024-02-02T23:58:55 < qyx> hush
2024-02-02T23:59:10 < karlp> just pay for the bigger flash ones, it's only cents, and do it all in micropython
2024-02-02T23:59:24 < qyx> hm I have some bare esp32c3 chips
2024-02-02T23:59:31 < qyx> but this time I need wifi
2024-02-02T23:59:46 < qyx> I'll better order whole modules
--- Day changed la helmi 03 2024
2024-02-03T00:22:37 < Ecco> So I bought this cheap-yet-pretty-cool PSU from aliexpress
2024-02-03T00:22:42 < Ecco> I shared a link the other day
2024-02-03T00:22:55 < Ecco> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804404449310.html
2024-02-03T00:23:00 < Ecco> Honestly, I really like it
2024-02-03T00:23:29 < Ecco> ok wait, https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806266422299.html
2024-02-03T00:23:33 < Ecco> yes, $47, more like it
2024-02-03T00:23:37 < Ecco> it's not *that* cheap
2024-02-03T00:23:40 < Ecco> it takes USB-C in
2024-02-03T00:23:56 < Ecco> and spits out whatever you want between 0 and max-voltage-of-USB-C-adapter
2024-02-03T00:24:06 < Ecco> So anyway, i'm powering this STM32 board
2024-02-03T00:24:16 < Ecco> the thing draws less than 1mA
2024-02-03T00:24:25 < Ecco> I never really realized how little current those use
2024-02-03T00:24:44 < Ecco> (and it's running at 32 MHz, not sleeping)
2024-02-03T00:25:11 < Ecco> That seems crazy low tho
2024-02-03T00:25:15 < Ecco> let me put an ammeter in
2024-02-03T00:26:01 < Ecco> ok ammeter says 2.625 mA
2024-02-03T00:26:44 < Ecco> Well maybe that PSU is not *that* good
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2024-02-03T00:28:09 < Ecco> oh, ok, the doc said so
2024-02-03T00:28:26 < Ecco> Accuracy: 0.1% ± 3mA
2024-02-03T00:28:35 < Ecco> I don't know if it's good, but at least it's honest
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2024-02-03T00:39:09 < qyx> the weirdest pcb I've ever made https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tpG3P/Screenshot_2024-02-02_23-38-45.png
2024-02-03T00:39:12 < qyx> it took me 5 minutes
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2024-02-03T00:59:15 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/98B3D/Screenshot_2024-02-02_23-59-00.png
2024-02-03T01:03:28 < Ecco> lol
2024-02-03T01:03:35 < Ecco> Are you making a heating pad?
2024-02-03T01:03:56 < Ecco> lol
2024-02-03T01:04:06 < Ecco> I said this without seeing the second image
2024-02-03T01:04:09 < Ecco> seems like I'm onto something
2024-02-03T01:04:15 < Ecco> I thought you were making this kind of stuff:
2024-02-03T01:04:35 < Ecco> https://www.instructables.com/PCB-Hotplate-Mini-Edition/
2024-02-03T01:05:08 < qyx> I am making electric version of this https://www.diy.com/departments/apollo-300w-grey-paraffin-greenhouse-heater/5060031170689_BQ.prd
2024-02-03T01:05:20 < qyx> but ~100 W max, for seed beds
2024-02-03T01:05:31 < qyx> and autoignition
2024-02-03T01:05:32 < Ecco> wtf is this?
2024-02-03T01:05:34 < Ecco> Ooh
2024-02-03T01:05:37 < Ecco> so to keep plants warm?
2024-02-03T01:05:50 < Ecco> Yeah, actually, I've witnessed this first hand
2024-02-03T01:05:52 < qyx> no, to keep them unfrozen :P
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2024-02-03T01:05:56 < Ecco> plants grow so much faster when warm
2024-02-03T01:05:59 < Ecco> like *so much*
2024-02-03T01:06:06 < Ecco> it's not the sunlight as much as the warmth
2024-02-03T01:06:13 < Ecco> oh, ok :-D
2024-02-03T01:06:17 < Ecco> It's pretty cool :)
2024-02-03T01:06:18 < qyx> I need to add maybe 5-10 °C
2024-02-03T01:06:30 < qyx> indoors there is not enough light
2024-02-03T01:06:35 < qyx> and I don't have the space required
2024-02-03T01:06:41 < qyx> and in the garden it is still too cold
2024-02-03T01:06:46 < Ecco> makes sense
2024-02-03T01:07:09 < Ecco> That's pretty cool :)
2024-02-03T01:07:11 < Ecco> well, warm
2024-02-03T01:07:12 < qyx> so I insulated one raised bed, i plan to cover it with some polycarbonate and place this inside
2024-02-03T01:07:27 < Ecco> ha, fun
2024-02-03T01:07:30 < Ecco> what are you growing?
2024-02-03T01:07:45 < Ecco> I mean, I honestly only see one thing that would make economical sense :-D
2024-02-03T01:08:02 < qyx> I am not into drugs
2024-02-03T01:08:13 < Ecco> Well man, that's going to be one hell of an expensive carrot then :-D
2024-02-03T01:08:15 < qyx> mostly tomatoes, peppers, some root vegetables
2024-02-03T01:08:25 < Ecco> oh you're into growing peppers?
2024-02-03T01:08:31 < Ecco> It's one of the things I do too :)
2024-02-03T01:08:47 < qyx> I mean the common ones, aren't those peppers too?
2024-02-03T01:08:55 < Ecco> Bell peppers?
2024-02-03T01:08:59 < Ecco> Or hot peppers?
2024-02-03T01:09:00 < qyx> https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/vegetable-of-the-month-peppers
2024-02-03T01:09:12 < Ecco> Those are bell peppers
2024-02-03T01:09:21 < Ecco> "While sweet bell peppers are crunchy and mild, hot peppers — such as jalapeños, serranos, and habaneros — provide a tongue-tingling punch of heat. "
2024-02-03T01:09:37 < qyx> yeah we had some hot peppers too
2024-02-03T01:09:46 < Ecco> Which variety?
2024-02-03T01:09:47 < qyx> don't ask which kind
2024-02-03T01:09:49 < Ecco> ok :)
2024-02-03T01:10:06 < Ecco> I highly recommend banana peppers
2024-02-03T01:10:11 < Ecco> (they're just a tiny bit spicy)
2024-02-03T01:10:13 < qyx> wife's brother has taken some from the vietnamese restaurant nearby
2024-02-03T01:10:17 < qyx> they were *hot*
2024-02-03T01:10:20 < qyx> so he planted them
2024-02-03T01:10:21 < Ecco> Yeah, most likely thai peppers
2024-02-03T01:10:38 < Ecco> Those are in the beginning of the 'danger' zone
2024-02-03T01:10:59 < qyx> now I have a full jar of them
2024-02-03T01:11:01 < Ecco> There are some peppers that are *way* hotter
2024-02-03T01:11:04 < qyx> enough for 10 yeas
2024-02-03T01:11:05 < Ecco> Well, yeah, that's the problem
2024-02-03T01:11:08 < Ecco> :-D
2024-02-03T01:11:13 < Ecco> You can dry them
2024-02-03T01:11:17 < Ecco> and keep them 10 years indeed
2024-02-03T01:11:31 < qyx> yeah, I already did
2024-02-03T01:11:34 < Ecco> Thai peppers are ~50-100k on the Scoville scale
2024-02-03T01:11:43 < Ecco> I grew some Carolina Reapers. Those are ~2M
2024-02-03T01:11:48 < Ecco> its just… insane
2024-02-03T01:11:52 < Ecco> kind of fun *once*
2024-02-03T01:12:07 < Ecco> but the banana peppers are nice
2024-02-03T01:12:14 < qyx> I better have smaller full scale range
2024-02-03T01:12:16 < Ecco> they're probably like ~100
2024-02-03T01:12:17 < qyx> to be precise when dosing
2024-02-03T01:12:44 < Ecco> (not 100k, just plain 100) Very mild, yet you can feel some heat.
2024-02-03T01:13:03 < Ecco> They are not very hardy tho
2024-02-03T01:13:07 < qyx> I could do some jalapenos this year, I like them on pizza
2024-02-03T01:13:17 < Ecco> Yeah, Jalapenos are ~1000
2024-02-03T01:13:23 < Ecco> so Bananas are a lot milder
2024-02-03T01:13:36 < qyx> k noted, I'll try to get them
2024-02-03T01:13:37 < Ecco> But Jalapenos are great. You can make your own Sriracha sauce with them
2024-02-03T01:13:59 < Ecco> You can also grow "ornamental peppers"
2024-02-03T01:14:12 < Ecco> those are quite powerful (~50k), but they look really, really good
2024-02-03T01:14:22 < Ecco> so it's a 2-in-1 kind of thing
2024-02-03T01:14:23 < qyx> we also have some, uhm, we call that "goat horns"
2024-02-03T01:14:47 < Ecco> https://www.edenbrothers.com/cdn/shop/products/pepper-ornamental-mix-1.jpg?v=1653421690
2024-02-03T01:15:11 < Ecco> Just looked it up. Looks like Cayenne peppers to me.
2024-02-03T01:15:12 < qyx> this https://www.lumigreen.sk/eshop/semena-paprika-barani-roh-artist/p-4733684.xhtml
2024-02-03T01:15:50 < Ecco> ok :)
2024-02-03T01:16:10 < qyx> they can be curved or straight, pretty mild
2024-02-03T01:16:46 < qyx> oh yeah cayenne looks exactly the same
2024-02-03T01:17:58 < Ecco> yeah :) THat's a very common type of pepper. Really popular too, but quite spicy.
2024-02-03T01:18:10 < Ecco> mild? Ok so it's probably a variant
2024-02-03T01:18:17 < Ecco> OG Cayenne is pretty hot
2024-02-03T01:18:49 < Ecco> but again, it's *very* easy to create new pepper hybrids
2024-02-03T01:18:53 < Ecco> (even happens accidentally)
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2024-02-03T01:43:59 < Ecco> ST's sample code for Bluetooth has a function called "DIS_APP_Init" that calls adds some ACI GATT characteristics to the service, with weird names like MANS, MNBS, SNS
2024-02-03T01:44:07 < Ecco> 1/ Do you guys have any idea what this means?
2024-02-03T01:44:16 < Ecco> 2/ Is this mandatory for discovery to work?
2024-02-03T01:48:20 < karlp> Ecco | it's not the sunlight as much as the warmth
2024-02-03T01:48:24 < karlp> no, it's the sunlight...
2024-02-03T01:48:55 < karlp> I mean, it has to be warm enough for them to live, but oncwe that's taken care of it, it's the sunlight...
2024-02-03T01:50:45 < Ecco> well, yes, but it works the other way around too
2024-02-03T01:51:19 < qyx> does esp32 have a working adc?
2024-02-03T01:51:26 < qyx> or only the nonworking one?
2024-02-03T01:51:31 < qyx> or was it stm32wb
2024-02-03T01:51:44 < Ecco> it also depends on the species
2024-02-03T01:52:48 < qyx> ok finished today https://bin.jvnv.net/file/76D8Y/Screenshot_2024-02-03_00-52-32.png
2024-02-03T01:53:07 < qyx> tomorrow I'll add some esp32, pwm the heater and the fan, some temp sensors and call it done
2024-02-03T01:53:21 < Ecco> qyx: Have you tried esphome?
2024-02-03T01:53:24 < Ecco> It's really good
2024-02-03T01:53:34 < qyx> not yet but I plan to use it
2024-02-03T01:53:45 < Ecco> I coded a driver for the blinds I mentionned the other day
2024-02-03T01:53:49 < Ecco> honestly, I really liked it
2024-02-03T01:53:55 < Ecco> like I could focus on the part thaat made sense
2024-02-03T01:54:04 < Ecco> and all the boilerplate was taken car of
2024-02-03T01:54:14 < qyx> if it is able to connect to mqtt and has some basic webconfig, I'm ok with it
2024-02-03T01:54:19 < Ecco> I need to upstream that driver btw
2024-02-03T01:54:26 < Ecco> mqtt -> I think it does
2024-02-03T01:54:32 < Ecco> webconfig -> possibly too
2024-02-03T01:54:37 < Ecco> but the whole premise is that you configure on your PC
2024-02-03T01:54:45 < karlp> wb has working adc, just not at the same time as btle in low power modes...
2024-02-03T01:54:46 < Ecco> then build a customized firmware
2024-02-03T01:54:52 < karlp> esp32 adc is just,, not so hot...
2024-02-03T01:55:31 < qyx> https://esphome.io/components/web_server.html
2024-02-03T01:55:34 < qyx> oh that looks cool
2024-02-03T01:55:49 < Ecco> Yeah, essentially you write a .yaml file
2024-02-03T01:55:57 < Ecco> that says what to build in the firmware
2024-02-03T01:56:06 < Ecco> you can also had tiny chunks of glue-C++ code if needed
2024-02-03T01:56:31 < Ecco> (but honestly, it's most likely not needed)
2024-02-03T01:56:33 < qyx> ok so I guess an i2c temp sensor will do instead
2024-02-03T01:56:44 < Ecco> (the idea being that complicated routines would run on a server)
2024-02-03T01:56:57 < Ecco> yeah, and I2C temp sensor would most likely work out of the box
2024-02-03T01:57:40 < qyx> https://esphome.io/components/sensor/shtcx.html
2024-02-03T01:57:42 < qyx> good
2024-02-03T02:06:36 < Ecco> esphome really shines with homeassistant tho
2024-02-03T02:06:48 < Ecco> but I'm pretty sure you can use it on its own
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2024-02-03T02:10:56 < qyx> I have HA
2024-02-03T02:11:48 < Ecco> perfect
2024-02-03T02:16:29 < Steffanx> 2 of the 3 names are here Ecco https://wiki.st.com/stm32mcu/wiki/Connectivity:STM32WBA_Health_Thermometer
2024-02-03T02:17:15 < Ecco> yeah that's the sample code I'm looking at
2024-02-03T02:17:31 < Steffanx> So SNS might be serial number string or something 
2024-02-03T02:17:35 < Ecco> ok ok good thanks
2024-02-03T02:17:56 < Steffanx> But idk :P
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2024-02-03T20:37:21 < qyx> omg that esphome is a docker container
2024-02-03T20:46:12 < Ecco> yeah
2024-02-03T20:46:19 < Ecco> well I think it makes sense
2024-02-03T20:46:26 < Ecco> it's a convenient way to ship a build environment
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2024-02-03T20:59:58 < Steffanx> using it on a rpi3b isnt fun though 
2024-02-03T21:00:50 < Steffanx> (just because it tends to run out of wham)
2024-02-03T21:04:54 < jpa-> how many gigabytes od ram do you need to turn on a lightbulb?
2024-02-03T21:05:05 < qyx> is it even possible to use it as a normal mortal
2024-02-03T21:05:22 < qyx> installing the official esp-idf and then typying make as all gods intended?
2024-02-03T21:06:34 < Steffanx> Do you want an exact number or are you happy with an estimate, jpa- ?
2024-02-03T21:06:52 < Ecco> qyx: I guess. I personally didn't even bother
2024-02-03T21:06:59 < jpa-> as long as it is big
2024-02-03T21:07:00 < Ecco> I think it's "cleaner" to jsut laod the container
2024-02-03T21:07:02 < Ecco> then trash it
2024-02-03T21:07:17 < jpa-> i like big rams and i cannot lie
2024-02-03T21:07:22 < Ecco> :-D
2024-02-03T21:07:24 < Steffanx> jpa-: 7 inch is big?
2024-02-03T21:07:36 < qyx> oh so pip3 install esphome
2024-02-03T21:07:40 < qyx> and wheel
2024-02-03T21:07:47 < qyx> k I'll try it in a venv
2024-02-03T21:07:56 < jpa-> you shouldn't lie either, i know dutch use centimeters
2024-02-03T21:08:39 < qyx> "Don’t use sudo with pip"
2024-02-03T21:08:46 < qyx> For details, see DontBreakDebian
2024-02-03T21:08:51 < qyx> ok lold
2024-02-03T21:09:55 < jpa-> don't worry, after you break python 3.8 you can just install 3.10 from unstable and everything is fine
2024-02-03T21:10:31 < Steffanx> Anyway my light bulb machine has 8GB and apparently it uses 1GB atm.
2024-02-03T21:11:35 < jpa-> not impressed, better reprogram it in java
2024-02-03T21:13:24 < qyx> idk, my lightbulb machine is a lxc container on a 8G odroid-m1
2024-02-03T21:13:56 < Steffanx> I was going to hire you jpa-, but you don't even list Java as listed skill on your website -_-
2024-02-03T21:14:00 < Steffanx> -listed
2024-02-03T21:15:19 < qyx> I'll probably play with that thing today but my only esp32 is the esp32-cam
2024-02-03T21:15:25 < qyx> that's probably ok
2024-02-03T21:15:30 < qyx> idk if supported though
2024-02-03T21:15:59 < Steffanx> it probably is.
2024-02-03T21:17:34 < Ecco> seriously, bash scripting is fucking hell
2024-02-03T21:20:00 < Steffanx> So dont do it.
2024-02-03T21:20:33 < Ecco> yeah
2024-02-03T21:42:46 < zyp> I made a slightly more interesting motor test setup than just running a motor unloaded
2024-02-03T21:43:45 < zyp> 26W motor is kinda underpowered for that kind of stuff though, thinking about replacing it with a 400W motor
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2024-02-03T22:11:00 < Ecco> 400W motor? What does that look like?
2024-02-03T22:11:13 < Ecco> I have a 3D RC plane
2024-02-03T22:11:26 < Ecco> maybe it's the same?
2024-02-03T22:11:31 < Ecco> I really don't remember though
2024-02-03T22:11:33 < Ecco> let me see
2024-02-03T22:13:05 < Ecco> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aerodrive-sk3-3542-800kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
2024-02-03T22:13:10 < Ecco> Supposedly 625W
2024-02-03T22:13:11 < Ecco> damn
2024-02-03T22:13:18 < Ecco> (well tbh it *is* powerful)
2024-02-03T22:13:21 < Ecco> But super tiny
2024-02-03T22:35:18  * qyx installed debian for esphome
2024-02-03T22:48:21 < qyx> (esphome) qyx@esphome:~$ esphome version
2024-02-03T22:48:21 < qyx> Version: 2023.12.9
2024-02-03T22:48:27 < qyx> works, much less hassle than a docker
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2024-02-03T22:49:48 < qyx> omg the wizard is gross
2024-02-03T22:49:56 < qyx> I didn't want a chatbot
2024-02-03T22:50:27 < Steffanx> Is it complain o'clock qyx ?
2024-02-03T22:53:32 < qyx> omg it is downloading platformio
2024-02-03T22:53:39  * qyx @ Jan- mode
2024-02-03T22:54:13 < qyx> Processing led-test (board: esp32cam; framework: arduino; platform: platformio/espressif32@5.4.0)
2024-02-03T22:54:17 < qyx> no error so far
2024-02-03T22:54:26 < qyx> do we have such pro tools for stm32 too?
2024-02-03T22:55:10  * qyx feels like a maker
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2024-02-03T23:09:06 < Steffanx> TheCubeMX is as great tool
2024-02-03T23:09:29 < Steffanx> It can download  you middlewares and generate code.
2024-02-03T23:10:14 < octorian> So as I update a design, I'm going to need to have an STM32F446 supply a 24MHz clock signal to a USB hub IC.  Originally I was planning to configure a timer channel to do this, but I just realized I could configured an MCO channel (divided clock output) to do it instead.  Any advantages/disadvantages/gotchas about one approach vs the other?
2024-02-03T23:10:52 < octorian> (though I suspect the MCO approach is the "right" solution)
2024-02-03T23:10:55 < qyx> mco is less consumption
2024-02-03T23:11:11 < qyx> and more right
2024-02-03T23:11:16 < qyx> timer is more configurable
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--- Day changed su helmi 04 2024
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2024-02-04T01:01:04 < qyx> everything works, except it sometimes boot loops for whatever reason
2024-02-04T01:01:41 < qyx> oh brownout
2024-02-04T01:01:59 < qyx> that's probably because of that onboard 1117
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2024-02-04T01:31:11 < karlp> qyx: no  make with esp-idf... it's all "idf.py build..."  (it's all cmake now anyway, so... ninja if you'r eluycky)
2024-02-04T01:32:30 < karlp> is there a particular reason to not just put a 24Mhz crystal down?
2024-02-04T01:37:52 < qyx> yeah found out
2024-02-04T01:38:00 < qyx> anyway, deep sleep works at ~2 mA
2024-02-04T01:38:13 < qyx> not great, wifi off, but can connect occasionally
2024-02-04T01:51:35 < octorian> karlp, any reason to prefer a crystal over just running a clock signal out an MCO pin to the device?
2024-02-04T01:53:47 < octorian> (because doing so would add another 2 unique BOM items to the board)
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2024-02-04T14:48:42 < ventYl> https://nitter.cz/nexta_tv/status/1754073032237191648#m
2024-02-04T14:49:26 < ventYl> Es ist historisch so gewachsen und bis Jetzt hat es immer funkzioniert.
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2024-02-04T14:52:54 < fenugrec> i wonder if you there was ever SATA drivers for win3.11
2024-02-04T14:53:32 < ventYl> you can still turn most sata controllers into IDE emulation mode these days
2024-02-04T14:54:19 < fenugrec> true
2024-02-04T14:54:27 < fenugrec> alright, GbE then
2024-02-04T14:55:02 < ventYl> well, windows 3.11 had surprisingly long support due to the use in embedded, even ie 5.5 existed for it
2024-02-04T14:55:14 < ventYl> I assume that at least ne2k driver exists
2024-02-04T14:56:06 < ventYl> you can still take amount of money needed to upgrade all your infrastructure and put it into someone's arse to write one for you
2024-02-04T14:56:24 < fenugrec> heh
2024-02-04T14:57:14 < ventYl> after witnessing germans putting money into arse of VCS supplier who wanted to scrape whole VCS after being obsolete for at least 15 years, I believe they would be all-in for such solution
2024-02-04T14:58:53 < fenugrec> fire up trumpet winsock and trying to browse modern internet would be... interesting
2024-02-04T15:00:12 < fenugrec> does .de have some of the same DRM-locked trains as poland ? newag IIRC
2024-02-04T15:03:35 < ventYl> they have unions, it works better than DRM in stopping trains
2024-02-04T15:03:44 < specing> lol
2024-02-04T15:04:18 < fenugrec> hey at least you have trains
2024-02-04T15:14:20 < ventYl> various aerospace equipment still uses DOS
2024-02-04T15:14:47 < ventYl> there, unlike Windows 3.1, the DPMI wasn't limited to just 32MB AFAIK
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2024-02-04T18:31:52 < karlp> octorian: just because you seemed to be struggliugn with it :)
2024-02-04T18:35:35 < jpa-> octorian: using MCO has the benefit that if you want, you can run sysclk from PLL R-channel and MCO from PLL P-channel, thus you don't need to have system frequency divisible by 24
2024-02-04T18:36:32 < jpa-> (and the STM32F446 maximum 180 MHz system frequency isn't divisible by 24 MHz)
2024-02-04T18:36:44 < octorian> jpa-, that's an interesting advantage.  Technically my SysClk choice is somewhat arbitrary, but I do still need to be able to configure it to get 48MHz to the USB peripheral.
2024-02-04T18:37:08 < jpa-> USB peripheral runs from PLL Q-channel, so it is independent of system clock
2024-02-04T18:38:45 < jpa-> nice thing is that both MCO1 and MCO2 have timer channels on same pin, so you don't even need to choose yet ;)
2024-02-04T18:39:08 < octorian> jpa-, except I'm currently using both the MCO1 and MCO2 pins for other things, so I'll need to move some stuff around.
2024-02-04T18:39:33 < octorian> I'm switching from an STM32F411, which I was running at 96MHz.  The F446 seems to have different limits on its APB clocks (lower, in some cases, actually).
2024-02-04T18:41:41 < octorian> So I also need to pick what to run my SysClk at.  I think my current clock tree config has it at 120MHz, but I really have no idea where I should ultimately put it.
2024-02-04T18:43:39 < jpa-> is power usage important?
2024-02-04T18:44:09 < jpa-> now, if using timer to output the 24 MHz is too boring, you can always take it out from I2S or SAI peripheral and gain the separate PLL adjustability :)
2024-02-04T18:44:38 < octorian> No, this thing is wall-powered.
2024-02-04T18:45:01 < jpa-> you could also put a 24 MHz crystal oscillator and route the same clock output to both STM32 and the hub
2024-02-04T18:45:33 < octorian> Running the MCO pin from the STM32 to the hub still seems like the easiest solution.
2024-02-04T18:45:40 < jpa-> yes
2024-02-04T18:46:19 < jpa-> but if you pick the road less traveled, we get to make fun of you when you hit a roadblock
2024-02-04T18:46:24 < octorian> The only reason I didn't think of MCO before, was because I simply never considered it.  Either I forgot the feature existed, or assumed it ran at SysClk speed, so I never explored the idea.
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2024-02-04T18:48:29 < octorian> So I wonder...  Does maxing out the SysClk speed affect stability or EMC, if I don't change any of the external pin configurations or peripheral speeds?
2024-02-04T18:51:26 < jpa-> i would say, not significantly
2024-02-04T18:52:20 < jpa-> it does increase power usage approximately linearly to frequency
2024-02-04T18:56:08 < octorian> If I use MCO2, and set its source to PLLI2SM, and run USB off PLLSAIM, then I can get 48MHz to USB, 24MHz to MCO2, and run SysClk at 180MHz.
2024-02-04T18:56:54 < octorian> Though I can fiddle around more later.  The only thing that needs to be nailed down soon is whether I use MCO1 or MCU2, and its looking like MCO2 might be easier.  More input choices, and the pin I'd need to reassign is currently being used for a simple GPIO output.
2024-02-04T18:58:02 < jpa-> yeah, either should work
2024-02-04T18:58:47 < octorian> (as far as PCB routing, both the MCO pins are in a better place than the timer pin I was using.  Though I'll still likely need to have the signal change layers across its route.
2024-02-04T19:01:02 < octorian> (though there might be a direct path with some round-about routing...  tweaking all that is a project for this week)
2024-02-04T19:01:30 < octorian> All my routing around the MCU itself keeps getting messy, because of where each peripheral decides to pop out.
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2024-02-04T20:00:18 < qyx> my layout and routing usually selects the peripheral and the exact gpio
2024-02-04T20:00:24 < qyx> not the other way around
2024-02-04T20:01:20 < qyx> eg. I am not going to route SDIO across the MCU to the other side of the board, I rotate and rearrange things instead
2024-02-04T20:01:36 < qyx> unless it is really hard
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2024-02-04T20:07:32 < jpa-> i do that on first layouts, but then customers want updates and it doesn't make sense to relayout everything and stuff gets weird
2024-02-04T20:12:58 < octorian> Also, unless any pin can be any peripheral, there are limits to what's practical.
2024-02-04T20:15:42 < octorian> In this specific case, the only way to get an MCO pin to the usb hub IC's clock input pin without  a plane change is to route it out under the MCU and out one of the corners.
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2024-02-04T20:39:02 < jpa-> plane changes are not that bad, just have a ground via nearby
2024-02-04T21:00:27 < qyx> metering pros, any multichannel single phase metering ic with some easy bus, preferably ac-powered?
2024-02-04T21:01:12 < qyx> or just voltage sense + current transformers?
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2024-02-04T22:34:27 < qyx> TIL Vala
2024-02-04T22:35:19 < qyx> and I actually read about GObject now for the first time and it is gross
2024-02-04T22:41:18 < qyx> https://github.com/pschultz/kiosk-browser/blob/master/browser.c
2024-02-04T22:41:20 < qyx> okolol
2024-02-04T22:41:40 < qyx> looks too bare
2024-02-04T22:42:23 < ventYl> Vala is mostly a historic relic
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--- Day changed ma helmi 05 2024
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2024-02-05T00:35:31 < karlp> all the GI shit in gtk3 made it historical right?
2024-02-05T00:35:49 < karlp> or gtk4 or whever that came in.
2024-02-05T00:36:16 < karlp> ok, I've spent another night on variant dirs in scons with laks, and I've given up again :)
2024-02-05T00:36:26 < karlp> lifes too short for this.
2024-02-05T00:43:33 < qyx> what's this USEQMSEA011680
2024-02-05T00:43:39 < qyx> looks interesting
2024-02-05T00:43:53 < qyx> any other approaches to detect motion in a ~2 m proximity?
2024-02-05T00:44:13 < qyx> (those vcsel laser sensors have pretty narrow beam)
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2024-02-05T01:06:05  * qyx applying the basic rule of enclosure selection: if it takes more than 1 hour, use 100x100 mm PCB size
2024-02-05T01:11:38 < zyp> «it» being what?
2024-02-05T01:15:26 < qyx> to select an enclosure for a pcb
2024-02-05T01:16:02 < zyp> what does 100x100mm achieve? stick it in off the shelf alu extrusion shit
2024-02-05T01:16:03 < zyp> ?
2024-02-05T01:16:25 < qyx> for example
2024-02-05T01:16:53 < qyx> but the point is the enclosure is either given and it is a moot point, yet it still happens "what if I could do it better"
2024-02-05T01:17:15 < qyx> or the enclosure size/shape is not given and the "product" is in the early stage of the cycle
2024-02-05T01:17:30 < qyx> so most probably whatever fits
2024-02-05T01:17:41 < qyx> because you will end up changing it later in the design anyway
2024-02-05T01:17:44 < zyp> IME «what edges do I put which connectors on?» is the bigger question than «what size do I make the pcb?»
2024-02-05T01:18:01 < qyx> oh, theres rule for that too
2024-02-05T01:18:05 < qyx> "on a single edge only"
2024-02-05T01:18:12 < qyx> no exceptions, no excuses
2024-02-05T01:19:31 < qyx> anything else limits you
2024-02-05T01:19:52 < zyp> I came up with a silly project the other day, the kind that I'd like to do at some point, but probably lose the need for before I get around to it
2024-02-05T01:21:20 < qyx> happens all the time :P
2024-02-05T01:21:26 < zyp> true
2024-02-05T01:21:43 < zyp> so, I found this thing: https://www.variscite.com/product/system-on-module-som/cortex-a55/dart-mx95-nxp-i-mx-95/
2024-02-05T01:22:31 < zyp> it has 10gbe and two PCIe lanes, I wanna make a carrier for it with a SFP+ and two M.2 slots
2024-02-05T01:24:41 < zyp> mount the carrier to a PCIe bracket so several of those can sit in one of those rackmount cases with hotswap trays, stick a https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006026982407.html in one of the M.2 slot, each carrier hooked to one row of drives
2024-02-05T01:25:10 < zyp> can put a full ceph cluster in a box
2024-02-05T01:30:54 < zyp> if imx95 doesn't get outrageously more expensive than older imx series, it'd be a nice way to do toy homelab clusters
2024-02-05T01:32:10 < zyp> two m.2 slots on the carrier keeps it simple and gives a bunch of flexibility wrt. which modules gets put into it
2024-02-05T01:33:55 < qyx> I have two icyboxes, 6 trays each
2024-02-05T01:34:01 < qyx> sata 2.5"
2024-02-05T01:34:08 < qyx> I eanted to do somethig similar
2024-02-05T01:34:19 < qyx> but I am targetting 1gbe and low power
2024-02-05T01:34:56 < zyp> unless you fall into the rabbit hole of «how do I power it? what about management? maybe a backplane would be nice? atx form factor? maybe design it so it can also sit in a eurorack if you're not gonna run it with drives?»
2024-02-05T01:34:57 < qyx> I don't need bazibits per second
2024-02-05T01:35:09 < qyx> lol
2024-02-05T01:35:24 < qyx> yeah
2024-02-05T01:35:45 < zyp> could e.g. have drive nodes sitting in a drive enclosure, and then a whole row of compute nodes in an eurorack next to it :p
2024-02-05T01:36:49 < qyx> I stopped playing with computing 10y ago, I am not i terested anymore
2024-02-05T01:37:03 < qyx> but I did ceph, glusterfs, moosefs
2024-02-05T01:37:21 < qyx> kvm, ovirt, tried xen a bit
2024-02-05T01:37:35 < qyx> and then I lost interest before devops became mainstream
2024-02-05T01:38:40 < qyx> now I am a BFU
2024-02-05T01:39:01 < zyp> I ran xen for a while, VMs are annoying to maintain, I like how container infrastructure removes the need to manually manage VM state
2024-02-05T01:39:32 < qyx> I use lxc since
2024-02-05T01:39:55 < qyx> no docker, I jate the concept of shared read only containers
2024-02-05T01:40:18 < zyp> still running zfs on 16x3tb drives, but that server is >10 years old now
2024-02-05T01:40:29 < zyp> what? they're not read only
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2024-02-05T01:41:53 < qyx> I mean they are not what I would expect from a container
2024-02-05T01:42:07 < zyp> a docker container retains its filesystem changes until it's removed, persists across reboots and everything
2024-02-05T01:42:39 < zyp> it's just that you remove it and recreate it when you want to upgrade or whatever, so you still don't want to use it for stuff you want to keep
2024-02-05T01:43:04 < qyx> I tried to use that thing for 3 times
2024-02-05T01:43:21 < zyp> idk, works for me
2024-02-05T01:43:31 < zyp> fits my mindset well
2024-02-05T01:43:59 < qyx> the direct opposite here :p
2024-02-05T01:44:15 < zyp> I dislike having to keep track of stateful shit in general
2024-02-05T01:45:39 < qyx> but regarding those backplanes, I will probably just do a backplane replacement for that icy dock/box with a sata expander and a SoM with 1gbe
2024-02-05T01:45:57 < qyx> or even a few usb-sata bridges :p
2024-02-05T01:46:13 < zyp> I like rackmount stuff
2024-02-05T01:46:41 < qyx> yeah and I am gonna make 10" ears for it
2024-02-05T01:46:56 < qyx> sorry, brackets or whateber is it
2024-02-05T01:48:27 < qyx> https://www.amazon.com/ICY-DOCK-Mobile-Comparable-Tray-less/dp/B01M0BIPYC
2024-02-05T01:48:49 < zyp> is 2.5" worthwhile?
2024-02-05T01:49:37 < qyx> idk, I have two of them
2024-02-05T01:49:50 < zyp> with what kind of drives?
2024-02-05T01:49:51 < qyx> and 4x 2TB + 2x 512 GB ssd
2024-02-05T01:50:26 < qyx> I plan to keep those seagates for long term offline storage
2024-02-05T01:50:37 < qyx> until they fail
2024-02-05T01:53:18 < qyx> (one dock is empty)
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2024-02-05T15:15:16 < karlp1> man, jlink really shits me. I get this sort of thing _reguarly_ when using jlink's gdb server, almost never had with openocd. https://paste.jvnv.net/view/WKwlj
2024-02-05T15:26:46 < jbo> huh?
2024-02-05T15:26:54 < jbo> I am having a very good time with J-Link in general
2024-02-05T15:27:15 < jbo> karlp1, what j-link GDB server version?
2024-02-05T15:31:10 < karlp1> 7.92m at the moment.
2024-02-05T15:31:14 < karlp1> I'm gladyou are,
2024-02-05T15:31:21 < karlp1> jlink is generally just a bunch of lies for me.
2024-02-05T15:31:54 < jbo> at least it's a bunch of lies that just works 99.9% of the time :)
2024-02-05T15:32:01 < jbo> nah, I get what you mean
2024-02-05T15:32:17 < karlp1> I would't say it's close to 99.9
2024-02-05T15:32:42 < karlp1> the only thing it does better htan openocd so far is be faster, and have some more exotic target support.
2024-02-05T15:34:10 < jbo> and an ethernet interface
2024-02-05T15:34:55 < karlp1> openocd runs on rpi's and anything else you feel like so, that's not really very interesting.
2024-02-05T15:35:21 < karlp1> especially as you still have to plug in usb to power it
2024-02-05T15:35:25 < jbo> yes, because the one thing I want to do when debugging something is also debugging an rpi crap setup
2024-02-05T15:35:42 < karlp1> it can be whatevr you like.
2024-02-05T15:35:47 < jbo> funny, I was just thinking yesterday of how nice it would be if the j-link had PoE :D
2024-02-05T15:35:49 < karlp1> it's up to you if it's crap or not.
2024-02-05T15:39:25 < jbo> true true
2024-02-05T15:39:36 < jbo> so why are you dicking around with it then?
2024-02-05T15:42:04 < karlp1> I'm trying to use the same tools as my colleagues.
2024-02-05T15:42:23 < karlp1> and I hadn't finished writing target support for openocd for this target, 
2024-02-05T15:42:38 < karlp1> I can now use jlink hardware with openocd and it doesnt' crash as much, so... mostly worked around for now.
2024-02-05T15:43:19 < karlp1> also, every says how great jlink is, so I keep trying it out to see what's so good...
2024-02-05T15:43:58 < jpa-> karlp1: i've been had gdb-multiarch crash like that lately, gdb-arm-none-eabi works for me
2024-02-05T15:44:44 < karlp1> jpa-: then I just have to bitch about arm... either no python, or this absurd 3.8 hard dep...
2024-02-05T15:45:04 < karlp1> but nice to hear it's not just me maybe.
2024-02-05T15:46:15 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/15v/plain  i think gdb-multiarch 12.1 has somehow broken some arm instruction decoder
2024-02-05T15:46:48 < jpa-> and then when you hit such an instruction when stepping or breakpointing or whatever, it crashes
2024-02-05T16:06:42 < qyx> maybe that's the reason your colleagues did it wrong and you have to fix it
2024-02-05T16:06:44 < qyx> wrong tools
2024-02-05T16:07:01 < qyx> haha python 3.8
2024-02-05T16:13:29 < jbo> qyx, I forgot external I2C pullups on the f*cking board :D
2024-02-05T16:15:48 < karlp1> qyx: one step at a time.
2024-02-05T16:15:53 < qyx> nah, set 100k and use internal ones
2024-02-05T16:16:04 < mawk> is it possible to recover the instruction pointer after a IWDG reset?
2024-02-05T16:16:15 < qyx> afaik no
2024-02-05T16:16:20 < qyx> in wwdg, yes
2024-02-05T16:16:22 < mawk> the documentation says "every register except CSR is reset to its initial value"
2024-02-05T16:16:27 < karlp1> yeah, what qyx said.
2024-02-05T16:16:28 < mawk> but my boss says that no
2024-02-05T16:16:32 < mawk> I guess he's wrong
2024-02-05T16:16:38 < mawk> yeah my backup plan is to move to WWDG indeed
2024-02-05T16:16:40 < mawk> thanks
2024-02-05T16:16:50 < jpa-> you can also set timer to expire slightly before IWDG
2024-02-05T16:17:00 < mawk> right
2024-02-05T16:17:08 < mawk> yeah
2024-02-05T16:17:18 < karlp1> yeah, some "wdg" peripherals let you have an interrupt at a "pre interval"
2024-02-05T16:17:37 < jpa-> i think even some stm32 models have that
2024-02-05T16:18:32 < qyx> I need to arduino up that seedbed controller soon
2024-02-05T16:18:32 < jpa-> apparently only STM32MP1
2024-02-05T16:18:34 < qyx> literally
2024-02-05T16:28:28 < qyx> jbo: other than that, does it work?
2024-02-05T16:28:49 < jbo> qyx, that's not really for me to say - I'm not the guy writing the firmware
2024-02-05T16:29:04 < jbo> qyx, I would like to test the charger tho, that's why I started messing with I2C yesterday
2024-02-05T16:29:10 < qyx> oh I though you already have some feedback, incl. those missing pullups
2024-02-05T16:30:05 < qyx> nah I hear the new lidl being built
2024-02-05T16:30:05 < jbo> nah, I was messing around with it myself yesterday - that's it.
2024-02-05T16:30:17 < qyx> the civilisation is coming closer to the forest
2024-02-05T16:30:41 < jbo> then you can use a 12-gauge instead of an SVD
2024-02-05T16:46:04 < qyx> speaking of python https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-VVphC-90k
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2024-02-05T17:58:11 < Ecco> Yay, so I did get this WBA to send advertising packets :) \o/
2024-02-05T18:12:17 < karlp1> so, what were the big things you were missing?
2024-02-05T18:12:34 < karlp1> what was wrong with your power shit in the end? just that you weren't giving it the sleep clock? or other stuff?
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2024-02-05T18:23:51 < zyp> the heatset insert tool set with ts100 tip that I ordered arrived, now I just need the pinecil since I still lack anything the tip will fit
2024-02-05T18:25:44 < Ecco> karlp1: So the power was fine
2024-02-05T18:25:48 < Ecco> the clocks were fine
2024-02-05T18:25:53 < Ecco> (not initially though
2024-02-05T18:26:13 < Ecco> but of course it's one of those things were all the things must work for the end result to work)
2024-02-05T18:27:10 < Ecco> the last missing item was to call an obsucre, undocumented "config" function from their link-layer library
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2024-02-05T18:46:13 < qyx> was it in the example?
2024-02-05T18:53:32 < Ecco> It was
2024-02-05T18:53:36 < Ecco> Which is how I found out
2024-02-05T18:53:48 < Ecco> But their example also has tons of useless crap
2024-02-05T18:53:54 < Ecco> It's *far* from a minimal example
2024-02-05T18:53:57 < qyx> oh so documented :p
2024-02-05T18:54:00 < Ecco> Yeah :-D
2024-02-05T18:54:10 < Ecco> So their library has two parts : link layer + ble stack
2024-02-05T18:54:18 < Ecco> TBH, the stack part is rather well documented
2024-02-05T18:54:36 < Ecco> the link layer? zilch
2024-02-05T18:55:00 < qyx> do you need to use the cube or is the lib available and can be used independently?
2024-02-05T18:55:10 < Ecco> it's on GitHub
2024-02-05T18:55:20 < Ecco> but it's such a mess
2024-02-05T18:55:30 < Ecco> for example, they ship part of the library as code
2024-02-05T18:55:35 < Ecco> part as static archive
2024-02-05T18:55:43 < Ecco> and… there's just *no* logic as to which part goes where
2024-02-05T18:55:48 < Ecco> it's like they built half of the files
2024-02-05T18:55:55 < Ecco> and went like "ok, good, let's ship the rest as source"
2024-02-05T18:56:25 < Ecco> also, they came up with a naming convention ("let's add "PLAT" in function that the user needs to implement)
2024-02-05T18:56:28 < Ecco> good
2024-02-05T18:56:35 < Ecco> except… they don't really follow it
2024-02-05T19:18:27 < Ecco> I probably did fuck something up though
2024-02-05T19:18:30 < ventYl> isn't that like you can reimplement it, but they provide some MVP implementation?
2024-02-05T19:18:46 < ventYl> in terms of this will work as long as you don't want to do anything asynchronously, etc. ?
2024-02-05T19:18:48 < Ecco> hmm, well, I don't really know. It's hard to understand what's going on to be honest
2024-02-05T19:19:06 < Ecco> well, I do wish they had a smaller MVP
2024-02-05T19:19:17 < Ecco> My problem rn is that advertising works
2024-02-05T19:19:24 < Ecco> but it seems to really only be sending *one* packet
2024-02-05T19:19:48 < jpa-> first packet is free, you need to pay for the next packets with tears and blood
2024-02-05T19:20:22 < Ecco> :-D
2024-02-05T19:20:37 < Ecco> Well, tbh, I did shed quite a few tears for that first packet
2024-02-05T19:52:58 < qyx> sounds like bosch's can-fd license
2024-02-05T19:57:43 < nomorekaki> ?
2024-02-05T19:57:49 < nomorekaki> what license
2024-02-05T19:57:55 < nomorekaki> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7lLHJ6yfH0
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2024-02-05T20:29:11 < Ecco> Do yall use rtt?
2024-02-05T20:50:21 < Steffanx> People use orbuculum, obtrace and co. Although i must admit i've used RTT more often.
2024-02-05T20:53:48 < Steffanx> or just the watches/plotting tools that come with Ozone.
2024-02-05T20:57:42 < qyx> I use serial.print
2024-02-05T20:59:11 < Steffanx> Very pro. C++ or function pointers?
2024-02-05T20:59:14 < Steffanx> in c
2024-02-05T21:03:09 < qyx> arduino all the way, my new favourite framework
2024-02-05T21:03:51 < Steffanx> oh dear, will you be alright?
2024-02-05T21:03:58 < Steffanx> Soon you can help the Blaxter
2024-02-05T21:04:53 < qyx> it is so cool, my sides are orbiting
2024-02-05T21:05:23 < Steffanx> lol
2024-02-05T21:07:29 < specing> lol
2024-02-05T21:07:45 < specing> Steffanx: why not both
2024-02-05T21:08:12 < Steffanx> both what mr specing ?
2024-02-05T21:08:20 < specing> both C++ and function pointers
2024-02-05T21:09:06 < Steffanx> Oh yeah, I'm not sure qyx is THAT cool you.
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2024-02-05T21:29:49 < ventYl> auto log = [](const char * a) { printf("log: %s\n", a); };
2024-02-05T21:30:03 < ventYl> you either lambda with me or against me
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2024-02-05T22:52:33 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I had this issue before but for the life of me can't remember what is the issue/fix
2024-02-05T22:52:55 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Basically any HAL_Delay(), HAL_GetTick() hangs indefinitely...
2024-02-05T22:52:59 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Any suggestions?
2024-02-05T22:53:48 < ventYl> where does it hang?
2024-02-05T22:53:51 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> btw the SysTick_Handler does have HAL_IncTick
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2024-02-05T22:55:23 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I can see it hanging at "while ((HAL_GetTick() - tickstart) < wait)", then the debugger dumps to .s file "LoopFillZerobss:" and after that it's just "random" address 1FFF157A 
2024-02-05T22:56:06 < ventYl> I guess that's -O2 / -OS / -Os binary
2024-02-05T22:57:27 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Oh good point. What optimization should I use for compiling this?
2024-02-05T22:57:54 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It's -0g right now
2024-02-05T22:59:48 < ventYl> -O0
2024-02-05T23:00:41 < qyx> is the systick even running
2024-02-05T23:01:15 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> ventYl Recompiled. It's hanging in "while ((HAL_GetTick() - tickstart) < wait)" loop
2024-02-05T23:01:29 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> qyx It should be. Interrupts are enabled
2024-02-05T23:02:57 < ventYl> and WTH is HAL_GetTick() call?
2024-02-05T23:04:44 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> HAL function that returns the value of uwTick which is HAL's miliseconds counter
2024-02-05T23:05:13 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It looks like SysTick_Handler is not being called but I have no clue to why...
2024-02-05T23:06:13 < Ecco> ColdKeybo[a]rd: clock configuration issue?
2024-02-05T23:06:16 < ventYl> is it updated by the systick? or can it be configured to be updated by something else?
2024-02-05T23:06:31 < Ecco> Try and put a breakpoint on your systick exception handler
2024-02-05T23:06:42 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It definitely does not fire
2024-02-05T23:06:48 < Ecco> ok
2024-02-05T23:07:01 < Ecco> Check the vector tablE?
2024-02-05T23:07:02 < qyx> so either 1. systick is not enabled 2. interrupt is not enabled
2024-02-05T23:07:16 < qyx> or you simply mistyped the handler and don't know about it
2024-02-05T23:07:35 < Ecco> yeah, I'd start by looking at the vector table
2024-02-05T23:07:41 < Ecco> that's pretty easy to do
2024-02-05T23:09:20 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> As in .s file vector table or with the debugger (can you even do that?)
2024-02-05T23:09:26 < Ecco> with the debugger
2024-02-05T23:09:30 < Ecco> even just in your .bin file
2024-02-05T23:09:36 < Ecco> just look at the first few bytes
2024-02-05T23:09:39 < qyx> .s?
2024-02-05T23:09:56 < Ecco> from gdb you should be able to "p/x 0x0" or something like this
2024-02-05T23:10:08 < ventYl> stm32 fucking cube has this portion of startup written in assembly
2024-02-05T23:10:14 < qyx> isn't it 2024?
2024-02-05T23:10:14 < Ecco> yeah :-/
2024-02-05T23:10:22 < ventYl> nyet
2024-02-05T23:10:33 < Ecco> Anyway, ColdKeybo[a]rd you need to look at the chip's memory
2024-02-05T23:10:36 < Ecco> (not source code)
2024-02-05T23:10:44 < Ecco> to try and pinpoint the problem
2024-02-05T23:10:57 < Ecco> so the very best way would be to use a debugger to read the chip's memory
2024-02-05T23:11:08 < ventYl> nah, why so complicated?
2024-02-05T23:11:08 < Ecco> I don't remember the offset of systick's handler
2024-02-05T23:12:10 < Ecco> ventYl: what easier option would you suggest? :)
2024-02-05T23:12:10 < ventYl> print the address of systick handler routine
2024-02-05T23:12:24 < ventYl> and then the address of any other generic handler
2024-02-05T23:12:35 < ventYl> if they are the same, then there's a typo in routine handler name
2024-02-05T23:12:40 < qyx> wat
2024-02-05T23:12:49 < Ecco> yeah you lost me on that too
2024-02-05T23:12:51 < ventYl> as all handlers are by default weak-aliased to no-op handler
2024-02-05T23:13:07 < ventYl> so if you make a typo, weak alias will redirect you to this one no-op handler
2024-02-05T23:13:36 < ventYl> and your alias will get ignored
2024-02-05T23:13:47 < ventYl> s/your alias/your handler/
2024-02-05T23:17:29 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ok, now I at least know that something is messed up with my clock/systick but have no idea how to fix it (yet) :\
2024-02-05T23:18:22 < Ecco> did you check the ISR was properly set up?
2024-02-05T23:19:53 < Ecco> In gbd it's possible something like "x/64 0x20000000"
2024-02-05T23:19:57 < Ecco> *possibly
2024-02-05T23:20:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I see "00 09 3D 00 10 00 00 00  01 00 00 00 10 00 00 20" at that address
2024-02-05T23:20:38 < Steffanx> Do you happen to start through a bootloader ColdKeybo[a]rd ?
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2024-02-05T23:21:11 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Steffanx No. But this app is goign to end up being the bootloader :)
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2024-02-05T23:21:18 < Steffanx> It's not uncommon the vector table pointer (SCB->VTOR) isn't set correctly. HAL doesn't do it for you.
2024-02-05T23:22:05 < qyx> x/64 0x08000000 then
2024-02-05T23:22:11 < qyx> systick is somewhere at the beginning
2024-02-05T23:22:43 < qyx> since when does cube place vectors in SRAM?
2024-02-05T23:24:43 < Steffanx> What's your mcu ColdKeybo[a]rd ?
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2024-02-05T23:25:40 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It's STM32L4P5CGTxP
2024-02-05T23:25:57 < qyx> such a pokemon
2024-02-05T23:26:24 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> qyx I see "00 00 05 20 89 59 00 08  05 0F 00 08 0B 0F 00 08  11 0F 00 08 17 0F 00 08  1D 0F 00 08 00 00 00 00" at that address
2024-02-05T23:26:59 < qyx> that means your stack is at 0x20050000, your reset vector at 0x08005989
2024-02-05T23:27:07 < qyx> and so on, some of them is systick
2024-02-05T23:27:37 < qyx> what the hell
2024-02-05T23:27:44 < qyx> does cube generate trampolines?
2024-02-05T23:28:38 < qyx> every handler has 6 bytes
2024-02-05T23:28:55 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I think the SysTick_Handler() begins at 08000F4C
2024-02-05T23:40:47 < ventYl> you can do something like "p ((void*)[16])* 0xaddress"
2024-02-05T23:41:09 < ventYl> to force GDB to interpret arbitrary constant as a pointer to certain type
2024-02-05T23:41:17 < karlp1> or just use x.
2024-02-05T23:41:47 < ventYl> for stm fucking hal vector table is just a random type-less gibberish
2024-02-05T23:42:44 < ventYl> i'd rather inject type information than having to count bytes in random hexdump
2024-02-05T23:43:52 < qyx> offtopic, so I defined a "standard" for powering my sh.t, I standardised 7 types of connectors
2024-02-05T23:43:59 < qyx> now, 1. accept that 2. I did it wrong
2024-02-05T23:44:48 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So maybe something is busted with my setup or jlink
2024-02-05T23:45:13 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I just recompiled a very simple CubeMX example where it inits few peripherals and then enters while loop
2024-02-05T23:45:19 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Same behaviour as with the previous app
2024-02-05T23:46:09 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Is there any chance I flashed some config bit or something that would cause this?
2024-02-05T23:51:00 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ok, I found the issue. Well the solution actually
2024-02-05T23:51:16 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Uncommented the "#define USER_VECT_TAB_ADDRESS" in the system_stm32l4xx.c
2024-02-05T23:54:22 < qyx> I am really curious why you even touch such things in normal circumstances
2024-02-05T23:54:49 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> qyx I mentioned that I'm writting the bootloader app.
2024-02-05T23:55:08 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So I did modify the .ld file to reduce the flash size
2024-02-05T23:55:43 < qyx> k then
2024-02-05T23:55:43 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So I guess I'm a dummy and forgot that I have to set this flag. Otherwise vector table would be at the wrong address
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--- Day changed ti helmi 06 2024
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2024-02-06T00:01:30 < Steffanx> Still interesting to know why it doesn't work without. A basic HAL example should totally work. So it could still be some option bit or whatever.
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2024-02-06T02:27:56 < Ecco> So it *was* a vector table issue after all :)
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2024-02-06T02:35:46 < qyx> but the debug was weird because 1. we didn't know whether he is debugging bootloader or the application itself 2. where the issue was 3. whatis scb->vtor because Steffanx raised the concern on the beginning
2024-02-06T02:36:19 < qyx> I mean that scb->vtor may be wrong
2024-02-06T02:37:43 < qyx> of course when heis bootloading an application, we cannot search for the issue at the default vector table location
2024-02-06T02:39:51 < Ecco> indeed
2024-02-06T02:40:22 < qyx> when Steffanx asked he clearly said that the app is going to be the bootloader which negates all of this
2024-02-06T02:40:51 < qyx> because the bootloader itself *does* boot with vectors at 0x08000000
2024-02-06T02:41:53 < Ecco> Indeed
2024-02-06T02:42:02 < Ecco> I hav a very weird issue
2024-02-06T02:42:18 < Ecco> so that WBA chip does send BLE advertising packets (once in a while)
2024-02-06T02:42:26 < Ecco> it's still buggy, but it *does* send some packets
2024-02-06T02:42:36 < Ecco> what's weird is that my iPhone gets them quite regularly
2024-02-06T02:42:45 < Ecco> yet my mac laptop very, very rarely sees them
2024-02-06T02:42:56 < Ecco> both are like less than 10cm away from the STM32
2024-02-06T02:43:12 < Ecco> (and actually my iPhone does get some packets significantly further away, like in a different room)
2024-02-06T02:44:21 < Ecco> macOS comes with a "packet logger" app that, well, logs (and decodes) every bluetooth packet the mac receives. The vast majority of the STM32WBA's packets don't show up there, even though my iPhone gets most of them.
2024-02-06T02:44:22 < qyx> do you run youtubez in the background
2024-02-06T02:44:45 < Ecco> Well, you think it's a wifi interference? Both the mac and iPhone use a 5 GHz wifi
2024-02-06T02:45:08 < Ecco> I guess I could shut down the mac's wifi entierly
2024-02-06T02:45:10 < Ecco> let me try that
2024-02-06T02:45:31 < qyx> i would say coexistence issue, not interference
2024-02-06T02:45:38 < qyx> but idk
2024-02-06T02:45:43 < Ecco> yeah, ok
2024-02-06T02:45:50 < Ecco> It's a good idea though
2024-02-06T02:46:43 < Ecco> ok, I feel like I might be doing something else that's broken/dumb
2024-02-06T02:46:46 < Ecco> I advertise as connectable
2024-02-06T02:47:02 < Ecco> but clearly haven't implemented anything about the connections (like AES encryption or RNG)
2024-02-06T02:47:11 < Ecco> I'm just assuming I'm not connecting
2024-02-06T02:47:17 < Ecco> but maybe the mac is trying to in the background?
2024-02-06T02:47:21 < Ecco> I should just change that
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2024-02-06T02:53:53 < Ecco> welp, didn't change anything
2024-02-06T03:01:04 < Ecco> I have a Linux laptop lying around
2024-02-06T03:01:23 < Ecco> Do you think it can be used as a good BLE debugger?
2024-02-06T03:04:06 < Ecco> ha, the Linux laptop sees it
2024-02-06T03:04:07 < Ecco> !
2024-02-06T03:18:36 < Ecco> What do you guys think of this? https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Development-hardware/nRF52840-Dongle
2024-02-06T03:30:51 < aandrew> I have at least a dozen of them, along with their little brother, the 51822 dongle. work great, hopefully you don't have to use zephyr for them
2024-02-06T03:32:21 < Ecco> ok :-D
2024-02-06T03:32:27 < Ecco> I meant "as a tool to debug BLE"
2024-02-06T03:32:41 < Ecco> So let me rephrase: what tools do you guys use to debug BLE?
2024-02-06T03:46:03 < aandrew> I haven't played in that space for a long time now but I was debugging with that dongle in a test mode if I'm not mistaken
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2024-02-06T06:20:18 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ecco The nRF has a pretty neat sniffer tool that uses nRF52840 dongle
2024-02-06T06:21:12 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> They also have a neat mobile app you can use for BLE sniffing/debugging
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2024-02-06T07:01:30 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Someone mentioned using Zephyr. I used it on nRF52840. Have some opinions about the whole thing but don't want to start a war... but the built in BLE debugger was a life saver for my use-case.
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2024-02-06T07:58:14 < Steffanx> Lol no need for a war. We don't have zephyr fanboys here ColdKeybo[a]rd . You can freely give your opinion 
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2024-02-06T08:01:53 < Steffanx> I partially disagree with aandrew because the nrf sdk before was a pain (too) imho. I could NOT get around this huge config file.
2024-02-06T08:04:21 < Steffanx> And now after using Zephyr I'm not sure what config system I hate more 
2024-02-06T08:11:26 < jpa-> https://github.com/apache/mynewt-nimble   you can always go open source!
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2024-02-06T08:40:36 < qyx> mi-nute
2024-02-06T08:49:32 < Steffanx> And pay a shitload on qualification and testing fees, jpa- ?
2024-02-06T08:56:34 < Steffanx> Not that people do that anyway..
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2024-02-06T09:05:32 < jpa-> yeah, i'm entirely not clear on how much testing is needed even on stock nrf sdk
2024-02-06T09:07:00 < jpa-> and whether they retest for every sdk release, or if the compliance will break as often as rest of the sdk
2024-02-06T09:22:38 < Steffanx> They seem to do the qualification for all their SKDs.
2024-02-06T09:23:07 < Steffanx> You can find them easily in zhe database 
2024-02-06T09:23:29 < jpa-> such diligence
2024-02-06T09:23:43 < Steffanx> The qdid and whatever numbers you need
2024-02-06T09:25:51 < Steffanx> And than everyone still has to pay 10k dollar.. 
2024-02-06T09:36:41 < qyx> just don't say itis bluetooth
2024-02-06T09:37:15 < qyx> "we are using a technology allowing the device to connect to your phone wirelessly"
2024-02-06T09:39:04 < jpa-> i wonder if TLAs are copyrightable, considering court rulings that e.g. "486" wasn't
2024-02-06T09:41:07 < jpa-> *trademarkable
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2024-02-06T10:37:06 < mawk> how can I artifically reduce my usb bandwidth
2024-02-06T10:37:20 < mawk> I'm trying to reproduce a watchdog crash that happens during usb (cdc-acm) communication from my device to the computer
2024-02-06T10:37:37 < mawk> and it happens downstairs at the technical support when they have a bunch of stuff connected at the same time so it's probably a bandwidth thing
2024-02-06T10:37:43 < mawk> I already daisy-chained 5 hubs together, maybe that will be enough
2024-02-06T10:37:46 < Steffanx> Qyx: If that's legally correct not sure, but its probably no issue until you sell too many devices. So no issue for many companies 
2024-02-06T10:39:53 < jpa-> mawk: copy a large file from/to some USB stick on the same hub
2024-02-06T10:40:01 < mawk> o
2024-02-06T10:40:03 < mawk> yeah
2024-02-06T10:40:12 < mawk> I was thinking in using the saleaeaeaeaeae in max speed mode
2024-02-06T10:40:23 < mawk> since usually even when it's alone on the bus it's already too much
2024-02-06T10:40:37 < jpa-> yeah, if you can make it continue after dropping samples
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2024-02-06T11:11:58 < karlp1> Ecco: my only advice is to trust phone bluetooth first, _then_ _if_ you need a pc app to do the right hting, to delve into that.
2024-02-06T11:12:10 < karlp1> pc side btle debugging is... fraught with system "optimizations"
2024-02-06T11:12:22 < karlp1> especially, "lol, no, we'r enot going to show you anything we think is a duplicate"
2024-02-06T11:12:48 < karlp1> bluetooth headphones paired to the laptop will also fairly significantly impact your ability to watch btle packets on the laptop too...
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2024-02-06T11:46:11 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tpXOS
2024-02-06T11:46:15 < qyx> what the hell did I just see
2024-02-06T11:46:56 < qyx> a customer returned me a gsm ant I borrowed them earlier in field
2024-02-06T11:47:25 < jpa-> first used duck tape to attach, ran out and used paper tape
2024-02-06T11:49:08 < qyx> I guess I need something more rugged with pur cabling
2024-02-06T11:49:17 < qyx> and I should give them some zip ties next time
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2024-02-06T12:33:23 < jpa-> so, GaNFETs, do i just stick EPC2204 in place of regular mosfet and everything will be smaller and more efficient?
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2024-02-06T12:33:59 < jpa-> i guess i'll need to be careful about that 6V Vgs max
2024-02-06T12:34:22 < qyx> yeah you need specific gate drivers
2024-02-06T12:34:59 < qyx> and also they behave a bit differently because there is no body diode
2024-02-06T12:35:18 < qyx> I mean, they diode but differently
2024-02-06T12:36:02 < jpa-> do they need otherwise specific gate drivers than just 5V drive?
2024-02-06T12:39:10 < jpa-> i'm considering using with BQ25756, which doesn't specifically mention ganfets but has 5V gate drive with 1 ohm turnoff and 3 ohm turnon
2024-02-06T12:39:48 < jpa-> hobby project though, so i can just put it there and learn :)
2024-02-06T12:46:08 < qyx> oh great
2024-02-06T12:46:27 < qyx> jbo did use that too
2024-02-06T12:46:30 < qyx> and I plan too
2024-02-06T12:46:33 < qyx> with GaNs
2024-02-06T12:46:44 < qyx> (he did the ref design)
2024-02-06T12:47:13 < qyx> I need the bidi buck-boost capability for a battery pack connected to a backplane VBUS
2024-02-06T12:47:29 < qyx> charging when VBUS is available and switching to reverse when it collapses
2024-02-06T12:48:50  * qyx asking some italians for connector samples
2024-02-06T13:08:31 < zyp> jpa-, I like the ones with builtin gate drivers
2024-02-06T13:08:43 < qyx> this one I want to use GAN3R2-100CBEAZ
2024-02-06T13:09:25 < zyp> I want to build a motor drive based on three LMG2100 when they stop being unobtanium
2024-02-06T13:09:52 < qyx> is there any gain in doing so?
2024-02-06T13:10:05 < qyx> I mean, you don't need 1 MHz switching for a motor drive
2024-02-06T13:10:54 < qyx> and their Rdson is not that great
2024-02-06T13:18:23 < zyp> low complexity, given it's a fully integrated halfbridge
2024-02-06T13:18:42 < zyp> got any better parts to suggest?
2024-02-06T13:19:25 < qyx> hm yeah, if low complexity is the goal, they are probably fine
2024-02-06T13:19:37 < qyx> there are power stages but all I know about are <=30 V
2024-02-06T13:19:54 < qyx> mostly TI
2024-02-06T13:20:24 < zyp> yeah, the idea is partly to make something better than this CSD97394 based stuff I've got
2024-02-06T13:33:48 < mawk> my udev rule to give a nice unique name to CDC-ACM serial ports https://bpa.st/UQYQ
2024-02-06T13:33:58 < mawk> coming from stm32s
2024-02-06T13:34:16 < mawk> to differentiate betweemn that of the stlink/jlink which was messing up my minicom setup
2024-02-06T13:34:50 < mawk> now I can do /dev/stm32-0 or whatever and it will always point to a stm32 usb serial
2024-02-06T13:35:09 < mawk> and /dev/stm32/ttyACM-DEADBEEFCAFEBABE to pin it with the serial number
2024-02-06T13:46:43 < machinehum> I know very little about Ga fets but I had a client approach me about designing something with them
2024-02-06T13:46:51 < machinehum> Is the hype true? What's the drawback?
2024-02-06T13:48:24 < machinehum> Buddy wants a 6kw dc/dc at like 98% efficiency or something and he was implyingthese magic fets are the only way to do it
2024-02-06T13:48:44 < karlp> qyx and jpa were _just_ talking about this.
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2024-02-06T13:49:54 < machinehum> Yes I was somewhat replying to that
2024-02-06T13:50:19 < karlp> mawk: just use /dev/serial/by-id/* instead... it's already done for you...
2024-02-06T13:50:43 < mawk> yeah but there's more stuff in there than just my device
2024-02-06T13:51:08 < mawk> and I want to control the naming pattern
2024-02-06T13:51:20 < karlp> ahh, you want a purple bikeshed
2024-02-06T13:51:31 < karlp> with 10cm slats, not the default 12cm.
2024-02-06T13:51:38 < qyx> :D
2024-02-06T13:51:57 < machinehum> No body diode
2024-02-06T13:52:10 < mawk> [12:34:50] <mawk> now I can do /dev/stm32-0 or whatever and it will always point to a stm32 usb serial
2024-02-06T13:52:14 < mawk> that's the most important part
2024-02-06T13:52:28 < mawk> instead of doing /dev/ttyACM0 which might point to some other stuff
2024-02-06T13:52:33 < mawk> the serial is bonus
2024-02-06T13:53:26 < mawk> I need to find a way to generate unique numbers for it
2024-02-06T13:53:43 < mawk> currently I use %n in the udev thing but that makes it unique across all ttyACM devices which is bad
2024-02-06T13:53:59 < mawk> I can run a small script to assign a number but that feels not very clean
2024-02-06T13:54:53 < karlp> seriously, have you even looked under /dev/serial/by-id ?
2024-02-06T13:57:53 < qyx> machinehum: GaNs help you to achieve power density because they can switch in the MHz range, efficiency because there are less switching losses (low gate charge), no reverse recovery losses, etc.
2024-02-06T13:58:13 < qyx> and achieve #profit because they have enough hype
2024-02-06T13:58:40 < qyx> but for 98%+ you probably also need soft switching
2024-02-06T13:58:54 < karlp> heh, gdb is doing 100% of a cpu doing.... nothing at all.
2024-02-06T13:59:04 < karlp> disconnected hardware, shutdown openocd.
2024-02-06T13:59:18 < karlp> it's  just sitting at a gdb prompt
2024-02-06T14:00:36 < karlp> lol,it's doing a non-blockign poll, and getting EAGAIN as fast as it can spin.
2024-02-06T14:02:43 < machinehum> qyx: I see
2024-02-06T14:02:58 < mawk> [12:54:53] <karlp> seriously, have you even looked under /dev/serial/by-id ?
2024-02-06T14:03:02 < mawk> yes, that's what I was using before
2024-02-06T14:03:22 < machinehum> I was looking at the LTC7871, seems like 96+% with conventional silicon 
2024-02-06T14:03:29 < karlp> well, you've completely failed to convince me of what you've done in addition then mawk :)
2024-02-06T14:03:32 < machinehum> So maybe a multiphase design with gan
2024-02-06T14:03:32 < mawk> but I wanted something like /dev/ttyACM0 but excluding anything other than the stm32
2024-02-06T14:03:35 < mawk> so it'
2024-02-06T14:03:39 < mawk> so it's what I did
2024-02-06T14:03:53 < karlp> I'm not seeing the difference.
2024-02-06T14:04:01 < machinehum> Seems they have low gate charge and decent Rdson
2024-02-06T14:04:04 < karlp> you just wanted it to be dev/tty instead of dev/serial?
2024-02-06T14:04:17 < mawk> you don't see the difference between /dev/stm32-0 and /dev/serial/bunchofrandomcharacterswhichchangewhenthedevicechanges ?
2024-02-06T14:04:17 < machinehum> 3.2R on that part you listed
2024-02-06T14:04:31 < mawk> the name will stay stm32-0 if I connect a different device
2024-02-06T14:04:39 < karlp> oh, you want the same name?
2024-02-06T14:04:43 < mawk> the by-id will change, by design
2024-02-06T14:05:08 < mawk> yes, I want exactly the same thing as /dev/ttyACM0, but only including the stm32s
2024-02-06T14:05:09 < mawk> as I said
2024-02-06T14:05:25 < mawk> so that I don't have to restart minicom/picocom
2024-02-06T14:05:25 < karlp> no, I thought you were doin this ID SHORT, but you're removing it.
2024-02-06T14:05:28 < mawk> and can leave it logging forever
2024-02-06T14:05:33 < karlp> are you plugging into the sam eport?
2024-02-06T14:05:41 < karlp> use /dev7serial/by-path then instead...
2024-02-06T14:05:43 < mawk> not necessarily
2024-02-06T14:05:47 < mawk> but yeah that was considered
2024-02-06T14:05:50 < karlp> so you want random.
2024-02-06T14:06:06 < karlp> you want "maybe, might be the same, might be different, but if it's stm, start at 0 and go up, arbitrarily"
2024-02-06T14:06:08 < mawk> I want to be logging whatever stm32s are plugged into the device
2024-02-06T14:06:11 < karlp> I'm glad we don't work together.
2024-02-06T14:06:20 < mawk> sure
2024-02-06T14:06:24 < mawk> me too
2024-02-06T14:06:33 < karlp> :)
2024-02-06T14:06:45 < mawk> I wouldn't want someone professing wild judgments about something he has very little information on
2024-02-06T14:06:55 < karlp> also, that would mean you work here, and that would be bad for you as well.
2024-02-06T14:07:01 < mawk> you don't know what I'm making
2024-02-06T14:07:08 < mawk> nor who the target user is
2024-02-06T14:07:12 < karlp> no, you failed to convey it IMO :)
2024-02-06T14:07:21 < karlp> so what did you expect other than judgments on incomplete information :)
2024-02-06T14:07:35 < mawk> lol
2024-02-06T14:07:54 < mawk> judgment, information or not, is not something I would want anyway
2024-02-06T14:08:50 < mawk> achieves the inverse effect of what you want, and reduces your sympathy capital to 0
2024-02-06T14:15:31 < qyx> k what's EXW (ex-works) terms exactly
2024-02-06T14:15:46 < qyx> should I order a courier service for pickup at the factory?
2024-02-06T14:15:54 < qyx> or I just pay and they do it for me?
2024-02-06T14:15:54 < zyp> they throw shit out the factory door, your responsibility afterwards
2024-02-06T14:16:20 < zyp> but yeah
2024-02-06T14:16:45 < qyx> that's a fucking hassle
2024-02-06T14:16:53 < zyp> EXW means shipping and insurance is on you, whether they or you do the actual shipping booking is details
2024-02-06T14:16:54 < qyx> the first option I mean
2024-02-06T14:17:35 < zyp> if you've got e.g. a DHL account number, you can typically give it to them, then they book and you pay
2024-02-06T14:18:42 < zyp> DHL also have a function when the recipient books a shipment that sends the label to the shipper and get them to select a pickup time
2024-02-06T14:19:09 < zyp> I've done it both ways, I prefer when I can just give the account number and the sender does the booking
2024-02-06T14:21:50 < qyx> what the hell the cheapest shipping .it->sk for 2 kg is Fedex for 98€?
2024-02-06T14:22:29 < qyx> it is 500 km, they can throw that using a catapult
2024-02-06T14:23:21 < zyp> you don't have a customer account, do you?
2024-02-06T14:24:04 < zyp> my impression is that as soon as you do, you get like 70% discount on the listed prices
2024-02-06T14:24:25 < zyp> at least that's what I got from both fedex and DHL
2024-02-06T14:24:42 < zyp> although I've never used my fedex account
2024-02-06T14:25:12 < qyx> I have tnt/fedex but somehow I don't have access to that part
2024-02-06T14:25:46 < zyp> you might have to talk to a customer rep and convince them you're gonna give them enough business that you deserve a discount
2024-02-06T14:26:08 < zyp> I've spent $3-4k annually on DHL for the past couple of years
2024-02-06T14:31:04 < qyx> gross
2024-02-06T14:31:44 < zyp> idk, I'm really happy with DHL
2024-02-06T14:33:58 < zyp> they've the only international transporter with a local warehouse here, everybody else are subcontracting first/last mile
2024-02-06T14:35:18 < qyx> ok UPS is 30€, at least parcelmonkey says so
2024-02-06T14:35:20 < qyx> which is better
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2024-02-06T16:00:08 < Ecco> can confirm for UPS
2024-02-06T16:00:14 < Ecco> Did get with a customer rep on the phone
2024-02-06T16:00:27 < Ecco> (and you don't even need to order that much actually, you cna just "promise" you'll order more in the future)
2024-02-06T16:00:33 < Ecco> got a ~80% discount right off the bat
2024-02-06T16:00:42 < Ecco> But tbh their "public" prices are just stupid
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2024-02-06T17:08:30 < Ecco> Is there a good tutorial on how to use orbuculum with stlink?
2024-02-06T17:08:55 < Ecco> the readme on Github is kind of hard to follow
2024-02-06T17:13:43 < Ecco> Meh
2024-02-06T17:13:44 < Ecco> (gdb) enableSTM32SWO 4
2024-02-06T17:13:45 < Ecco> Cannot access memory at address 0x40023830
2024-02-06T17:13:58 < zyp> set memory inaccessible-by-default 0
2024-02-06T17:14:56 < Ecco> (gdb) set mem inaccessible-by-default 0
2024-02-06T17:14:56 < Ecco> (gdb) enableSTM32SWO 4
2024-02-06T17:14:57 < Ecco> Cannot access memory at address 0x40023830
2024-02-06T17:15:51 < Ecco> and OpenOCD says Error: Failed to write memory at 0x40023830
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2024-02-06T17:19:01 < Ecco> oh, got it, I had the wrong ELF file loaded
2024-02-06T17:19:09 < Ecco> thanks though zyp, your message did help
2024-02-06T17:21:44 < Ecco> ok, I have a recent GDB
2024-02-06T17:21:55 < Ecco> and it gives me weird errors when I try to set a value at an address
2024-02-06T17:21:55 < Ecco> (gdb) set *0x40023830 |= 0x02
2024-02-06T17:21:56 < Ecco> Attempt to take contents of a non-pointer value.
2024-02-06T17:22:26 < Ecco> (well, nvm it's not even that recent)
2024-02-06T17:22:27 < zyp> set {uint32_t}0x40023830 |= 0x02
2024-02-06T17:22:38 < Ecco> Yeah I tried that too
2024-02-06T17:22:42 < Ecco> (gdb) set {uint32_t}0x40023830 |= 0x02
2024-02-06T17:22:42 < Ecco> syntax error in expression, near `{uint32_t}0x40023830 |= 0x02'.
2024-02-06T17:22:46 < Ecco> even with int
2024-02-06T17:22:53 < zyp> huh
2024-02-06T17:23:37 < Ecco> Let me re-download the toolchain
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2024-02-06T17:49:25 < jbo> should that not be (uint32_t)  ?
2024-02-06T17:50:48 < zyp> no, {type} is effectively *(type*)
2024-02-06T17:52:55 < ventYl> TIL that
2024-02-06T18:02:26 < Ecco>   register uint32_t Delay = delay * (SystemCoreClock / 1000000U);
2024-02-06T18:02:26 < Ecco>   do { __NOP(); } while (Delay --);
2024-02-06T18:02:33 < jbo> zyp, neat
2024-02-06T18:02:43 < Ecco> Does that seem right?
2024-02-06T18:03:32 < jpa-> Ecco: well, if you expect it to be microseconds, you'll probably be off by 2-5x
2024-02-06T18:03:44 < Ecco> yeah, it's supposed to be us
2024-02-06T18:03:49 < Ecco> why such a difference?
2024-02-06T18:03:58 < jpa-> because each loop is more than 1 instruction
2024-02-06T18:04:07 < Ecco> good point :)
2024-02-06T18:04:25 < jpa-> if you want it accurate, DWT->CYCCNT is nice
2024-02-06T18:04:54 < Ecco> hmm, cool
2024-02-06T18:05:01 < Ecco> Yeah, I remember reading about a cycle counter
2024-02-06T18:05:07 < zyp> except using DWT in production code isn't really a good idea
2024-02-06T18:05:18 < zyp> IIRC it's power hungry
2024-02-06T18:05:32 < zyp> better use a regular timer
2024-02-06T18:07:53 < Ecco> good to know!
2024-02-06T18:10:38 < Ecco> dang
2024-02-06T18:10:50 < Ecco> ok, so, remember that BLE bug where it would only send the first packet?
2024-02-06T18:11:13 < Ecco> Out of curiosity, after comparing my code to ST sample's code for hours
2024-02-06T18:11:21 < Ecco> I decided to try and do a "release" build
2024-02-06T18:11:33 < Ecco> sure enough… it's now spitting out advertising packets like crazy
2024-02-06T18:15:18 < Ecco> Maybe my debug code runs too slow?
2024-02-06T18:20:53 < qyx> is there any organised EU movement to stop selling consumer primary batteries?
2024-02-06T18:21:20 < qyx> ikea and lidl have none anymore
2024-02-06T18:21:32 < Mangy_Dog> what like AA and AAA?
2024-02-06T18:21:34 < Mangy_Dog> P3?
2024-02-06T18:21:35 < Mangy_Dog> D
2024-02-06T18:21:35 < Mangy_Dog> C
2024-02-06T18:21:36 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2024-02-06T18:21:39 < qyx> AA
2024-02-06T18:21:52 < Mangy_Dog> ive not heard anything of any stoppage
2024-02-06T18:21:58 < Mangy_Dog> but being UK... 
2024-02-06T18:22:22 < qyx> I know ikea stopped because feeling too responsible, etc, etc
2024-02-06T18:22:32 < qyx> but TIL lidl too
2024-02-06T18:22:44 < Mangy_Dog> responable about what?
2024-02-06T18:22:52 < Mangy_Dog> Alkaline batteries are not in short supply
2024-02-06T18:23:09 < Mangy_Dog> as for e waste most of the waste is non toxic
2024-02-06T18:23:18 < Mangy_Dog> and easily recyclble
2024-02-06T18:23:25 < Mangy_Dog> its not like finite lithium
2024-02-06T18:24:30 < qyx> https://www.reddit.com/r/batteries/comments/10ehpl7/lidl_batteries_now_tronic_used_to_be_aerocell_any/
2024-02-06T18:24:33 < qyx> aha
2024-02-06T18:33:19 < con3> Hey everyone, need some advice. I'm looking at using 3 of these adcs in a daisy chain mode. The output is SPI and with four output I plan to use QSPI. All the adc's will be sampling at the exact same time therefore data on each output will be aligned. Here is a link to the adc: https://www.ti.com/product/ADS8568  here is a snippet of the comms from page 18 of the datasheet: https://imgur.com/a/Ses1lsU  the adc requires convst to be toggled to take a sample 
2024-02-06T18:33:19 < con3> which feels odd, it will require me to toggle convst, wait for busy to go high and low and then read the data. This feels like I'll need to setup a gpio to toggle convst, wait for busy to toggle and then read. rinse and repeat. Feels like this will be me polling the adc and could be very slow. Hoping someone has worked on a similar interface and has some advice on how to do this effictively and streamline it
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2024-02-06T19:00:16 < qyx> mawk: btw /dev/serial/by-id/usb-STMicroelectronics_STM32_STLink* works for me and I can open it
2024-02-06T19:00:30 < mawk> yeah me too
2024-02-06T19:00:44 < qyx> I mean with the *
2024-02-06T19:00:49 < mawk> o
2024-02-06T19:00:52 < mawk> in minicom?
2024-02-06T19:00:57 < qyx> in screen
2024-02-06T19:01:03 < mawk> and when you unplug and plug in back in it resumes?
2024-02-06T19:01:03 < mawk> ah
2024-02-06T19:01:19 < mawk> but did you quote the *? otherwise bash interpreted it
2024-02-06T19:01:31 < qyx> and is that problematic?
2024-02-06T19:01:46 < qyx> obv it exits when the device is removed
2024-02-06T19:02:02 < mawk> the goal is to keep logging even when the device is swapped
2024-02-06T19:02:16 < mawk> without having to restart minicom or what
2024-02-06T19:02:30 < qyx> I did a systemd service for that
2024-02-06T19:02:33 < mawk> maybe I can add a udev rule to start logging on the device whenever it's inserted
2024-02-06T19:02:38 < qyx> yes
2024-02-06T19:02:55 < qyx> I used that for ~2 years
2024-02-06T19:03:03 < qyx> I started with screen + logging, but fuk that
2024-02-06T19:03:23 < qyx> then I wrote 10 lines of python and make some udev and systemd adjustments and it worked
2024-02-06T19:03:30 < qyx> but I don't remember exactly
2024-02-06T19:04:09 < qyx> k time to feed the hungry
2024-02-06T19:13:39 < mawk> who are you holding hostage
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2024-02-06T20:07:36 < nomorekaki> hello innovators
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2024-02-06T21:09:28 < Laurenceb_> supppp
2024-02-06T21:09:45 < Laurenceb_> will a watchpoint be triggered by DMA writes to ram?
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2024-02-06T21:20:22  * Laurenceb_ is confused by DMA CNDTR register, is it measured in bytes or number of transfers?
2024-02-06T21:23:47 < zyp> no, DMA won't trigger watchpoints
2024-02-06T21:24:50 < zyp> as for CNDTR, I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I would assume transfers
2024-02-06T21:32:33 < Laurenceb_> ok thanks
2024-02-06T21:33:56 < Laurenceb_> looks like my code must be going wrong and corrupting ram then
2024-02-06T21:35:22 < Laurenceb_> https://pastes.io/4j8slpgjfw
2024-02-06T21:36:20 < Laurenceb_> line 57 gets hit, arguments look ok, only 8 items in buffer, then quicksort is recursively called a few times and watchpoint gets hit
2024-02-06T21:36:45 < nomorekaki> ventYl: wat dis https://www.veecle.io/product/ ?
2024-02-06T21:36:56 < Laurenceb_> weird thing is that the array is at the top of ram and watchpoint is at the bottom
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2024-02-06T21:49:40 < Laurenceb_> hmf I'm out of ideas
2024-02-06T21:56:03 < Laurenceb_> something seems to be corrupting ram, appearance of the bug matches with when some dma code was added
2024-02-06T21:59:07 < Laurenceb_> is a watchpoint the best plan to debug this?
2024-02-06T22:05:07 < Laurenceb_> seems watchpoint is def getting hit within quicksort
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2024-02-06T22:38:40 < karlp> paint known patterns?
2024-02-06T22:38:48 < karlp> oh, you're hittingthe qsort cve, no question.
2024-02-06T22:40:13 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-02-06T22:40:21 < Laurenceb_> hmm yeah known patterns is a good idea
2024-02-06T22:41:44 < Laurenceb_> would help if wurk brogrammers would keep me updated with bugs, apparently this has been known since december but was never flagged on our git
2024-02-06T22:42:05 < Laurenceb_> now I dont even have a clear idea when it was introduced...
2024-02-06T22:46:18 < Steffanx> Time to do a binary search to find that commit :)
2024-02-06T22:46:29 < Steffanx> Have your minions do the search
2024-02-06T22:49:20 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats one way to do it
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2024-02-06T22:49:54 < Laurenceb_> first I have to fix the wiring harness for this thing... some perman00b managed to run it over with a forklift
2024-02-06T22:54:07 < nomorekaki> are you hypertraining Laurenceb_?
2024-02-06T22:59:09 < Laurenceb_> spin off project - high speed train test rack
2024-02-06T23:01:33 < nomorekaki> high speed train dyno bench
2024-02-06T23:01:40 < Laurenceb_> more or less, yeah
2024-02-06T23:01:53 < nomorekaki> cool
2024-02-06T23:02:04 < nomorekaki> motor heat issue fixed?
2024-02-06T23:03:42 < Laurenceb_> sort of, looks like it will just be ok with 40C coolant
2024-02-06T23:03:45 < Steffanx> Who's innovators, nomorekaki ?
2024-02-06T23:03:56 < nomorekaki> lurence
2024-02-06T23:04:24 < Laurenceb_> mech eng crew screwed up the magnetic design - there is flux leaking into steel frame and losing about 20kW
2024-02-06T23:05:53 < nomorekaki> noobs
2024-02-06T23:06:02 < nomorekaki> should have made ceramic casing
2024-02-06T23:06:02 < Steffanx> Much green train, much green.
2024-02-06T23:07:01 < Laurenceb_> it has modular "teeth" of electrical steel that slot into mild steel chassis
2024-02-06T23:07:18 < nomorekaki> Laurenceb_: are you workarounding that
2024-02-06T23:07:33 < Laurenceb_> they forgot to account for tolerances in tooth manufacture, so there are ~0.5mm gaps between teeth, that causes flux to penetrate the mild steel
2024-02-06T23:07:54 < Laurenceb_> nomorekaki: we might try resin mixed with insulated iron powder
2024-02-06T23:08:15 < Laurenceb_> but it would need to be low viscosity - poured into the cracks
2024-02-06T23:08:44 < nomorekaki> better than nothing I guess
2024-02-06T23:09:08 < Laurenceb_> we could use a cast aluminium alloy chassis instead on next prototype, but CTE is different from electrical steel so the glue might crack
2024-02-06T23:09:40 < nomorekaki> steel reinforced concrete
2024-02-06T23:09:46 < nomorekaki> + fiber
2024-02-06T23:09:46 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2024-02-06T23:09:57 < Laurenceb_> not practical for a motor...
2024-02-06T23:10:10 < nomorekaki> I know just out of box
2024-02-06T23:10:37 < nomorekaki> I think if I build speakers one day I use concrete
2024-02-06T23:10:46 < Laurenceb_> we ran it at 250kW mechanical power and 400kph for a day, no issues with motor overheating, but mech eng n00bs ran power cables through mild steel conduit
2024-02-06T23:11:06 < nomorekaki> gib it some mass
2024-02-06T23:11:27 < nomorekaki> Laurenceb_: did the conduit melt?
2024-02-06T23:11:28 < Laurenceb_> it got so hot from eddy currents that it melted the PVC and blew the main breaker after a day
2024-02-06T23:11:30 < Laurenceb_> yes
2024-02-06T23:12:16 < nomorekaki> tricky
2024-02-06T23:12:25 < Laurenceb_> killed SiC IGBTs then blew the 11kV substation
2024-02-06T23:13:02 < Laurenceb_> an expensive mistake - we have stainless conduit now
2024-02-06T23:13:26 < nomorekaki> I imagine people not knowing what you are doing exactly see you as mad scientist
2024-02-06T23:13:57 < Laurenceb_> mechanical engineers are the most annoying, they think they know what they are doing but they keep messing it up
2024-02-06T23:14:06 < nomorekaki> "We are reaching half a megawatt!"
2024-02-06T23:14:50 < Laurenceb_> the substation can deliver 1kA at 1kV
2024-02-06T23:14:52 < nomorekaki> *electric arching*
2024-02-06T23:15:17 < nomorekaki> suddenly all electrical cabinets start exploding
2024-02-06T23:15:40 < Laurenceb_> yeah I blew the doors of a cabinet with faulty relay logic
2024-02-06T23:19:30 < Laurenceb_> there is a concrete blast wall between operators and all high power kit tho
2024-02-06T23:19:37 < nomorekaki> how does stainless help?
2024-02-06T23:20:56 < Laurenceb_> very low mu_r so it does not amplify fields
2024-02-06T23:21:05 < nomorekaki> reluctance?
2024-02-06T23:21:36 < nomorekaki> ah permeability
2024-02-06T23:21:40 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2024-02-06T23:25:55 < Laurenceb_> for the first prototype the mech eng crew hadnt controlled the thickness of adhesive bonding Nd magnets to electrical steel - they ended up with <100um in places so as soon as the motor got hot the magnets cracked off due to diff thermal expansion and shredded the innards of the motor
2024-02-06T23:26:14 < Laurenceb_> they didnt run a single finite element model....
2024-02-06T23:26:39 < nomorekaki> ah a granade
2024-02-06T23:27:48 < nomorekaki> I wonder if production EVs have perm magnets held in place by epoxy
2024-02-06T23:27:49 < qyx> what for
2024-02-06T23:27:54 < qyx> engineers don't run FEM
2024-02-06T23:28:18 < qyx> that's the reason it is called the engineering approach
2024-02-06T23:29:46 < nomorekaki> Laurenceb_: controlling adhesive thickness in 10s or 100s micrometers sounds fun
2024-02-06T23:30:02 < Laurenceb_> min adhesive thickness needs to be carefully controlled, increasing it to >300um (using glass beads in the adhesive) and there is no problem as adhesive modulus can take up the CTE mismatch
2024-02-06T23:30:05 < qyx> there are adhesives with glass ball fillers for that
2024-02-06T23:30:31 < nomorekaki> qyx: controlling the thickness?
2024-02-06T23:30:34 < qyx> yes
2024-02-06T23:30:39 < nomorekaki> ah interestings
2024-02-06T23:31:32 < qyx> 21:11 < Laurenceb_> it got so hot from eddy currents that it melted the PVC and blew the main breaker after a day
2024-02-06T23:31:35 < qyx> lold
2024-02-06T23:31:43 < qyx> also, pvc?
2024-02-06T23:31:55 < qyx> I would expect at least something LSZH
2024-02-06T23:32:25 < Laurenceb_> this is for prototype test stuff, so we used cheap cable
2024-02-06T23:32:58 < Laurenceb_> we could see smoke coming from somewhere for several hours but it was too dangerous to open the cabinets
2024-02-06T23:33:31 < qyx> what about turning the power off and inspecting it?
2024-02-06T23:33:34 < qyx> too safe?
2024-02-06T23:33:50 < Laurenceb_> it was a continuous endurance test, that would wreck the temperature data
2024-02-06T23:37:13 < Laurenceb_> the motor actually outperformed comsol by quite a large margin - thermal modelling was quite inaccurate
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--- Day changed ke helmi 07 2024
2024-02-07T00:37:33 < karlp> zyp: if you're at all curious, I got this working in the end, I've onyl got a Depends() commented out on the ldscript, but I don't care about that right now.  laks side was jsut this in teh end: https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/9212f51501b678409779a1ec3023c990e8c906fe  and an example from a consumer is https://github.com/karlp/l2-miniblink-simple/blob/main/SConstruct
2024-02-07T00:37:50 < karlp> "plain" old non-variant single builds still work just the same as before.
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2024-02-07T00:43:01 < zyp> ah, right, linker script generation
2024-02-07T00:43:23 < zyp> that weren't a thing last time I touched variants
2024-02-07T00:43:55 < zyp> I think what we should actually do is just put a whatever.ld right next to the whatever.elf it's being generated for
2024-02-07T00:44:14 < zyp> since it'd also be an issue for bootloader+application builds
2024-02-07T00:44:40 < zyp> wait, I've done a bootloader with laks v2
2024-02-07T00:44:51 < karlp> yeah, there's more options that can be worked out, but... I'm absolutely done for a bit :)
2024-02-07T00:45:11 < zyp> wait, what
2024-02-07T00:45:39 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/OBJcK
2024-02-07T00:46:07 < zyp> ohh
2024-02-07T00:46:49 < zyp> so in this laks repo I've got this uncommitted change: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/xLA68
2024-02-07T00:49:07 < karlp> lol
2024-02-07T00:49:35 < karlp> yeah, the linekr generator felt like it should be it's own thing, so it can declare ins/outs properly, not just a thing that happens magically on the side.
2024-02-07T00:49:45 < karlp> anyway, this has been niggling me for months
2024-02-07T00:51:18 < zyp> at some point I'd like a way to say «use the first 8k for bootloader and leave the rest for app» or something, and have the stuff calculated
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2024-02-07T00:52:28 < karlp> I'm fairly happy with how I made the kinetis special regions work too: https://github.com/karlp/laks/blob/wip/kinetis1/ld_scripts/generated.ld.j2#L15
2024-02-07T00:52:48 < qyx> my ultimate goal is "use whatever is needed for the bootloader and then place app after it"
2024-02-07T00:54:10 < zyp> you'll want to leave some margin so you don't have to change the app origin if you want to add some bootloader features later
2024-02-07T00:54:29 < zyp> and you need to round to whole flash pages either way
2024-02-07T00:54:35 < qyx> I have an ELF chainloader in the bootloader
2024-02-07T00:54:56 < karlp> I'm unahppy with this at the moment, but it's "minor" in the scheme of things: https://github.com/karlp/l2-krv-miniblink/blob/kinetis1/src/kminiblink1.cpp#L64-L67
2024-02-07T00:54:57 < qyx> the only thing left is to process PIC properly
2024-02-07T00:55:42 < qyx> I plan to run an "object storage" on the flash having multiple XIP-capable ELFs
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2024-02-07T00:56:06 < karlp> I need to do more clockwork support for kinetis too, to support these other boards, currently I have enough for a clockless miniblink, but for my test apps it's still calling some nxp supplied c blobs to do clock tree setup.
2024-02-07T00:56:10 < zyp> qyx, that's pretty cool if it works out
2024-02-07T00:56:35 < qyx> I need few more weeks and I'll probably have them
2024-02-07T00:56:45 < qyx> jobs are stalling atm
2024-02-07T00:57:08 < zyp> I've considered experimenting with XIP dynamic libs
2024-02-07T00:57:27 < zyp> kinda what you're doing, except running multiple at ones
2024-02-07T00:57:34 < zyp> once*
2024-02-07T00:57:41 < qyx> nah that requires resolving symbols in runtime
2024-02-07T00:57:44 < qyx> chainloading is easy
2024-02-07T00:59:14 < zyp> I don't remember the details, but overall it should be fairly similar, main difference is that you don't have to worry about relocating .data/.bss, I can't have them overlap
2024-02-07T01:00:29 < qyx> for libraries I would simply ban data/bss
2024-02-07T01:00:40 < qyx> (except rodata)
2024-02-07T01:01:00 < qyx> there is really no need 95% of time
2024-02-07T01:01:14 < zyp> oh, right, you mean resolve symbols as in functions between elfs
2024-02-07T01:01:22 < qyx> a library can have its instance struct with all the required shit
2024-02-07T01:01:33 < qyx> yeah
2024-02-07T01:02:03 < zyp> I figure they wouldn't necessarily be library-libraries, more like independent tasks
2024-02-07T01:02:50 < qyx> but unless they are single entry point and not using anything from other elfs, at least something is needed
2024-02-07T01:03:58 < zyp> could do syscalls
2024-02-07T01:04:43 < zyp> idk, haven't had a problem really call for it yet
2024-02-07T01:06:40 < qyx> k workpcb finished in 15 minutes after procrastinating for 3 days
2024-02-07T01:07:23 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/deGg4/Screenshot_2024-02-07_00-06-56.png
2024-02-07T01:07:26 < qyx> such beauty, much molex
2024-02-07T01:07:45 < zyp> hmm, I should do some PCBs soon
2024-02-07T01:07:51 < qyx> also, NCN26010
2024-02-07T01:07:56 < qyx> 10base-t1s mac+phy
2024-02-07T01:08:04 < qyx> I wonder how it works
2024-02-07T01:08:05 < zyp> how much is that?
2024-02-07T01:08:17 < Ecco> What are those cylinder things?
2024-02-07T01:08:25 < qyx> idk, I have to order some
2024-02-07T01:08:28 < zyp> solenoids, I believe
2024-02-07T01:08:29 < qyx> about 5 eurobucks
2024-02-07T01:08:48 < Ecco> i have *no idea* what that board is
2024-02-07T01:09:04 < Ecco> there's like a cortex debug header?
2024-02-07T01:09:11 < qyx> but I am pretty stressed out by LwIP
2024-02-07T01:09:12 < Ecco> a led and a push button
2024-02-07T01:09:29 < qyx> I mean I know it will take me hours to get it working
2024-02-07T01:09:43 < qyx> and I hope someone did an usable driver for that openalliance SPI proto
2024-02-07T01:09:55 < zyp> I was considering earlier today whether I should start doing the laks ip stack I've been wanting to do
2024-02-07T01:10:00 < karlp> openalliance?
2024-02-07T01:10:16 < qyx> karlp: all those new SPI ethernet things have a common proto
2024-02-07T01:10:19 < qyx> *should* have
2024-02-07T01:10:25 < karlp> all those new?
2024-02-07T01:10:26 < zyp> but then I started watching some shit instead
2024-02-07T01:10:36 < qyx> karlp: 802.3cg
2024-02-07T01:10:57 < qyx> there are like 1 from onsemi, 3 or so from microchip, 3-4 from ADI
2024-02-07T01:11:06 < karlp> are SPE all mac+phy? or just phy?
2024-02-07T01:11:13 < qyx> no
2024-02-07T01:11:17 < zyp> -t1s is special
2024-02-07T01:11:29 < qyx> t1s and t1l are both mac+phy and phy
2024-02-07T01:11:37 < qyx> 100mbit+ are all *mii
2024-02-07T01:11:47 < zyp> -t1s is multinode, has some extra collision avoidance stuff with timeslots that none of the p2p SPE standards need
2024-02-07T01:12:05 < zyp> CPLA was the term IIRC
2024-02-07T01:12:21 < qyx> something like that
2024-02-07T01:12:28 < qyx> cpla/rs
2024-02-07T01:12:41 < qyx> PLCA/RS
2024-02-07T01:13:10 < qyx> Open Alliance Compatible SPI Interface for Exchanging
2024-02-07T01:13:11 < qyx> Configuration and Data Frames to Host
2024-02-07T01:13:12 < zyp> so there's MAC+PHY with builtin CPLA, and then there's PHYs with some CPLA magic behind a traditional *MII interface
2024-02-07T01:13:57 < qyx> I have read some IEEE workgroup discussions and they were talking about the PLCA being a truly PHY feature
2024-02-07T01:13:59 < zyp> which is probably kinda like having a two-port switch inbetween your MAC and the actual PHY
2024-02-07T01:14:25 < qyx> anyway, you can omit it
2024-02-07T01:14:29 < qyx> it works without
2024-02-07T01:14:56 < qyx> Ecco: snailmail letter box lockers controller
2024-02-07T01:15:03 < zyp> that could probably make sense if you've got an L3 that doesn't collide anyway
2024-02-07T01:15:12 < Ecco> qyx: fun :)
2024-02-07T01:15:33 < karlp> annnd now my multibuild is exploding again. this is what I get for "just do a bit more, make it cool"
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2024-02-07T01:15:35 < qyx> but now I need to make a t1s switch
2024-02-07T01:16:03 < zyp> like if your L3 proto is all request/response like EPL and probably also some other industrial protos, CPLA probably does nothing but add pointless latency
2024-02-07T01:16:15 < qyx> probably a TJA1105
2024-02-07T01:16:29 < qyx> I don't really know about any other phy-less switches
2024-02-07T01:17:05 < qyx> I could use a common dual-MII one though
2024-02-07T01:17:12 < qyx> two T1S ports should suffice
2024-02-07T02:26:49 < qyx> jpa-: :( https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management-group/power-management/f/power-management-forum/1297856/bq25756-some-questions-of-bq25756
2024-02-07T02:32:36 < qyx> I feel like I should try and fail
2024-02-07T02:35:12 < qyx> but those GaNs are extremely tiny, you have to fanout the power using 4x 0.2 mm traces
2024-02-07T02:35:53 < qyx> thats 0.8 mm width, with 5 mm length and 35 um thickness you get around +3 mOhm
2024-02-07T02:36:28 < qyx> so you either have a tiny 3.2+3 mOhm GaN or a 5 mOhm mosfet in a bigger package
2024-02-07T02:38:43 < qyx> at 4 A (my application) this is irrelevant though
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2024-02-07T03:09:46 < nomorekaki> ah someone told me that dell xps 13 had unreliable cooling fans
2024-02-07T03:11:49 < karlp> ok, miniblink on an alternate kinetis. that's progress.
2024-02-07T03:12:01 < karlp> the boring churn through the datasheet stuff is now somewhat done for the basics.
2024-02-07T03:13:08 < nomorekaki> why kinetis'+
2024-02-07T03:16:09 < qyx> nomorekaki: I replaced it 2 times in sister's one
2024-02-07T03:16:29 < nomorekaki> one of the fans lost a blade or multiple blades
2024-02-07T03:17:06 < nomorekaki> it's attepting to spin and making loud noise
2024-02-07T03:19:46 < nomorekaki> https://www.reddit.com/r/DellXPS/comments/10tut2m/im_so_tired_of_my_processor_fan_malfunctioning/ this video
2024-02-07T03:24:04 < nomorekaki> or maybe bearing failure
2024-02-07T03:57:58 < Ecco> pshh, this thing is driving me nuts
2024-02-07T03:58:12 < Ecco> So, building with -Os -> my BLE advertising shit works perfect
2024-02-07T03:58:26 < Ecco> without it, only the first packet is sent
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2024-02-07T08:15:25 < jpa-> qyx: interesting, i wonder what "The leakage of the GaN drivers is to much for the BQ25756 gate drivers." means
2024-02-07T08:18:03 < jpa-> i'm using 0.4 mm traces / 0.1 mm copper clearance / solder mask defined pads for the fanout
2024-02-07T08:19:31 < jpa-> i think that brings total fanout trace resistance to 1 milliohm
2024-02-07T08:20:03 < jpa-> but i'm mostly interested in the low gate charge & small size; trying to put a 40V -> 40V 5A charger onto 30x20 mm PCB
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2024-02-07T09:06:15 < qyx> oh I have 100x70 mm PCB but no space on it
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2024-02-07T09:07:18 < qyx> I didn't get the leakage thing either
2024-02-07T09:09:28 < qyx> it probably means "The leakage of GaNs is too much for the gate drivers"
2024-02-07T09:09:36 < jpa-> from the "high boost ratios" comment i would infer it could be something like induced turn-on due to miller capacitance
2024-02-07T09:10:41 < jpa-> hard to thing that even the 5 mA max would be that much
2024-02-07T09:10:46 < jpa-> *think
2024-02-07T09:12:11 < qyx> table 8-1 looks suspicious
2024-02-07T09:12:17 < qyx> HS fet is always on
2024-02-07T09:12:47 < jpa-> how would they do that with bootstrap..
2024-02-07T09:13:25 < qyx> probably they are not refreshing it enough
2024-02-07T09:15:18 < jpa-> it lists "Bootstrap refresh comparator threshold voltage"  so should refresh automatically
2024-02-07T09:17:15 < jpa-> but if it lets it drop to 3.1 V, the Rds_on will rise quite a bit, even with MOSFETs
2024-02-07T09:23:52 < qyx> I haven't noticed that
2024-02-07T09:24:31 < qyx> even for SiR880BDP they are mentioning the plateau is definitely above 3 V
2024-02-07T09:24:49 < jpa-> hmm yeah, looks like it's not that much after all
2024-02-07T09:25:19 < qyx> CSD19531Q5A is even worse
2024-02-07T09:25:56 < qyx> k going with gans
2024-02-07T09:26:12 < jpa-> me too
2024-02-07T09:26:12 < qyx> GAN3R2-100CBE has plateau at 1.75 V
2024-02-07T09:26:27 < jpa-> if it burns, i'll learn
2024-02-07T09:26:37 < qyx> be ready to fail, be stronger!
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2024-02-07T09:56:16 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bq25756_layout.png  there can never be too many vias
2024-02-07T09:58:29 < qyx> wat, on ##stm32 there is at least a couple of months between "considering this for a project" and "today I actually started drawing the schematic"
2024-02-07T09:58:53 < jpa-> good, in that case you'll know my results before you start yours
2024-02-07T10:00:17 < zyp> :)
2024-02-07T10:01:14 < zyp> miller this and leakage that, all that shit is why the ones with builtin gate drivers looks much more interesting to me
2024-02-07T10:01:48 < zyp> especially the halfbridge ones that takes care of the high side level shifting as well
2024-02-07T10:02:39 < qyx> boring
2024-02-07T10:08:41 < jpa-> i once used IFX007, it was nice and simple to design with but somehow i didn't notice how slow it was (4µs)
2024-02-07T10:09:42 < jpa-> and then the client upped both the RPM and efficiency requirements, and i needed 100 kHz PWM to keep current ripple RI^2 losses down
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2024-02-07T10:23:19 < zyp> the CSD whatever PMOD I've got was happier at 200kHz than at 8kHz
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2024-02-07T10:25:59 < zyp> it doesn't have enough capacitance on the supply to filter 8kHz, so the supply current looks like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/997226661663752343/1189051091799785492/12.png
2024-02-07T10:27:11 < zyp> yellow is bus voltage, supply at 24V and electronic load in CV mode at 24.5V
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2024-02-07T12:35:54 < karlp> nomorekaki: work overlap.
2024-02-07T12:36:16 < karlp> nomorekaki: using kinetis at work, and using laks as a reliable base code for experiments, so...need kinetis :)
2024-02-07T12:43:36 < Posterdati> hi
2024-02-07T12:44:41 < Posterdati> please help, I'm trying to use the stm32f407 spi (stm32f4-discoveri board mb997d), after some readings I've got hard falut on reading dr register (data format 8 bit). Thanks!
2024-02-07T12:45:12 < Posterdati> no flags in spi status register
2024-02-07T12:45:33 < Posterdati> only TXE
2024-02-07T13:06:29 < jpa-> what does SCB->CFSR say?
2024-02-07T13:21:51 < Posterdati> wait
2024-02-07T13:23:17 < Posterdati> UFSR = 4
2024-02-07T13:23:22 < Posterdati> INVPC = 1
2024-02-07T13:23:30 < Posterdati> the rest are all zeroes
2024-02-07T13:25:52 < Posterdati> invalid PC????
2024-02-07T13:26:25 < Posterdati> could be a return instruction inside a function?
2024-02-07T13:29:57 < ventYl> when exactly does that happen? during read or whilst attempting to return from the function that reads the data?
2024-02-07T13:30:19 < ventYl> you might have corrupted your stack
2024-02-07T13:30:34 < Posterdati> inside the function before exiting
2024-02-07T13:30:56 < Posterdati> but why it happens only using the spi?
2024-02-07T13:31:56 < ventYl> SPI is probably not the part of the equation here.
2024-02-07T13:32:09 < ventYl> you just happened to make a mistake in this part of the code
2024-02-07T13:32:54 < jpa-> step instruction-by-instruction to see what happens
2024-02-07T13:32:59 < jpa-> or check the backtrace
2024-02-07T13:33:09 < Posterdati> does not occur
2024-02-07T13:33:29 < Posterdati> if I place a waiting loop it does not happen
2024-02-07T13:34:53 < Posterdati> ok
2024-02-07T13:35:07 < Posterdati> seems I found the problem
2024-02-07T13:35:15 < Posterdati> the task stack was too small :)
2024-02-07T13:35:28 < Posterdati> only 0x0100 bytes :)
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2024-02-07T13:35:50 < Laurence_b> suppp
2024-02-07T13:36:08 < ventYl> yeah, memory protection is for noobs
2024-02-07T13:36:58 < Posterdati> this is strange, why adding a waiting loop mitigate this?
2024-02-07T13:37:20 < Posterdati> is it a random effect of PC corruption?
2024-02-07T13:37:54 < Laurence_b> ok wtf, watchpoints do not work in visual studio code
2024-02-07T13:39:34 < Laurence_b> I think maybe float printf from newlib nano is corrupting memory
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2024-02-07T13:53:46 < Posterdati> thanks people for the help!
2024-02-07T14:49:39 < karlp> some/many rtoss specify stack in words fwiw, not bytes.
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2024-02-07T16:16:13 < jbo> did Steffanx get his vision pro yet?
2024-02-07T16:22:06 < Steffanx> Ofcourse jbo
2024-02-07T16:27:27 < Steffanx> Wanna have some fun in VR jbo. Better invite jpa- too
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2024-02-07T17:22:39 < karlp> now then, how did we fix zicsr rv extensions in laks last time I looked at this...
2024-02-07T17:23:06  * karlp turns off rv builds instead.
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2024-02-07T18:50:23 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz01j1TpM84 innovators!
2024-02-07T18:50:46 < nomorekaki> kustom displays
2024-02-07T18:51:32 < nomorekaki> EEVblog had video about custom LCDs for multimeter, but look this one is flexible and all
2024-02-07T18:51:53 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: have you used custom displays?
2024-02-07T18:57:20 < Steffanx> Nomorekaki: I have used a custom display of a client yes. 
2024-02-07T18:57:33 < nomorekaki> lcd?
2024-02-07T18:57:48 < nomorekaki> what was the application?
2024-02-07T19:05:03 < Steffanx> TFEL display nomorekaki 
2024-02-07T19:05:16 < Steffanx> Aka: Thin Film Electroluminescent.
2024-02-07T19:05:57 < Steffanx> Quality Finnish product ;)
2024-02-07T19:07:58 -!- MGF_Fabio [~MGF_Fabio@host-217-58-46-226.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2024-02-07T19:15:43 < Steffanx> The application is a secret ;)
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2024-02-07T20:22:18 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Maybe a weird question, but is there a way to use JTAG/SWD to load external SPI flash contents? The SPI FLash is connected to the MCU but without programming the MCU?
2024-02-07T20:24:15 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I see Segger has some Flash loader util and some kind of scripting language but I've never used. It supports direct mode (JLINK <-> FLASH) and indirect mode (JLINK<->MCU<->FLASH)
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2024-02-07T20:59:34 < qyx> ColdKeybo[a]rd: jlink supports that mostly out of box, openocd less-mostly out of box (there is a stm32 qspi driver ready, but you need to configutpre the peripheral manually)
2024-02-07T21:07:53 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> qyx Do you have any examples for JLink? They mention SPI Flash utility which does not work with JLink, only with their Flash Loader and some other production HW but not JLink
2024-02-07T21:21:49 < PaulFertser> ColdKeybo[a]rd: why not just use OpenOCD with any debug adapter on any system? https://openocd.org/doc-release/html/Flash-Commands.html#index-stmqspi-1
2024-02-07T21:23:22 < PaulFertser> qyx: I think you only need the manual peripheral configuration if you need to use it in memory mapped mode, so not necessary for flashing? 
2024-02-07T21:29:34 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I didn't know this was a thing, so I'll have to do a bit of reading
2024-02-07T21:30:08 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> But yes I basically just need to load flash to external SPI flash through the MCU
2024-02-07T21:32:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: I'm reading that indeed you need to do some configurations in commit message e44539d66c8929679321704768125df9ba7d5f67
2024-02-07T21:32:52 < PaulFertser> But it's already done for the disco boards. And if you have your own board and you write your own firmware you already know how to init it.
2024-02-07T21:35:10 < PaulFertser> wow, that was some huge work
2024-02-07T21:56:45 < qyx> PaulFertser: I did it once for a custom h7 board, it was quite a hassle
2024-02-07T21:57:20 < PaulFertser> qyx: yeah, I see it's necessary. Well, the config files for disco board give good examples and seem to be well-documented.
2024-02-07T21:57:21 < qyx> ColdKeybo[a]rd: nope it was back in 2016 in old work
2024-02-07T21:57:27 < qyx> and we used segger flasher for that
2024-02-07T21:57:49 < PaulFertser> qyx: and you still need that in your own firmware right? So you can stop and dump the registers even if you had that generated for you by cubemx or something.
2024-02-07T21:58:34 < qyx> I mean it is probably not that hard if you know what you are doing but doing it for the first time is always adventurous
2024-02-07T21:59:03 < qyx> I would flash using a custom bootloader instead in the future
2024-02-07T22:00:17 < PaulFertser> Or just a SOIC clip and flashrom probably?
2024-02-07T23:16:11 < karlp> kinetis has a "EzPort" peripheral, exlicitly designed to let debuggers program external flash, including resetting the mcu itself.
2024-02-07T23:16:19 < karlp> it's super quirky. like most of kinetis so far :)
2024-02-07T23:18:43 < qyx> e-z-port sounds quirky
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2024-02-07T23:33:49 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: the display was finnish?
2024-02-07T23:34:10 < Steffanx> Yes nomorekaki 
2024-02-07T23:34:12 < nomorekaki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroluminescent_display#/media/File:66ChargerDash2.jpg also look at this satisfying electrolumenence
2024-02-07T23:34:26 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: made by?
2024-02-07T23:34:48 < Steffanx> Lumineq
--- Day changed to helmi 08 2024
2024-02-08T00:12:20  * qyx continuing his amoeba PCB
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2024-02-08T00:33:44 < karlp> wat.  added a stm32 board to my mix, it generates an empty elf...
2024-02-08T00:33:53 < karlp> computers, how do they work.
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2024-02-08T00:39:02 < karlp> ahh, my kinetis startup hacking resulted in non-kinetis thinkg it could just discard startup, and hence, main... and hence... everything.
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2024-02-08T00:59:15 < nomorekaki> have you noticed that number of novices has maybe decreased from years back?
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2024-02-08T01:49:34 < Laurenceb_> holy sheeeet
2024-02-08T01:49:43 < Laurenceb_> hyperboss just paid 25k for methlab
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2024-02-08T02:01:29 < qyx> progressed a bit https://bin.jvnv.net/file/P8oj1/Screenshot_2024-02-08_01-01-08.png
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2024-02-08T02:27:05 < qyx> so, it is a 3 port hotpluggable power switch, each power line has 4 conductors, L+, L-, PE and comms
2024-02-08T02:27:22 < qyx> comms is a LIN style uart
2024-02-08T02:28:03 < qyx> now I want to differentiate multiple types of cabling (cross section)
2024-02-08T02:28:46 < qyx> usb3 CC-like detection would work but the topologycan be arbitrary, that is not even point-to-point
2024-02-08T02:29:00 < qyx> eg. a tee or a 1:4 split
2024-02-08T02:29:54 < qyx> I have an idea to use a strong pullup from the COM conductor to 5V for the actual communication and a weak pullup to VBAT (28 V)
2024-02-08T02:30:36 < qyx> so when idle the COM conductor would stay at 28 V
2024-02-08T02:31:05 < qyx> and each cable would have a zener on the COM
2024-02-08T02:31:59 < qyx> so the most low value zener would pull the weak pullup down signalising the cable harness has at least one partwith lower cross section
2024-02-08T02:32:40 < qyx> Zd voltage could be eg. 9V for 0.5mm2, 12V for 1mm2, 15V for 1.5mm2, etc
2024-02-08T02:32:59 < qyx> no zener would mean a legacy cable = 0.5mm2
2024-02-08T02:36:02 < qyx> now the question is would it work? 
2024-02-08T02:36:23 < qyx> the zener knee is not that sharp most probably
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2024-02-08T11:16:47 < karlp> qyx: did you look at lonworks for PLC at all? 
2024-02-08T11:19:23 < qyx> no? I had an impression it is hard-proprietary with protocol chips?
2024-02-08T11:22:29 < karlp> kinetis uart has support for it at least.
2024-02-08T11:23:01 < karlp> I've not looked at it any further, just ran across it yesterday in the ref manuals, 
2024-02-08T11:23:39 < qyx> I gave it 5 minutes and haven't even managed to find out which plc protocol does it use
2024-02-08T11:24:00 < qyx> the only information I was able to obtain is "5.4 kBaud"
2024-02-08T11:24:09 < qyx> depending on the line freq
2024-02-08T11:24:36 < karlp> yeah, seesm cea709 is used as the layer udnerneath a bunch of "standard, but private" things like europeoan petrol pumps and shit
2024-02-08T11:25:33 < karlp> and street lighting, like in this thing: https://www.belling.com.cn/en/support.html?id=3
2024-02-08T11:26:16 < qyx> gross
2024-02-08T11:26:40 < karlp> yeah, I think I can just ignore all of it by the looks.
2024-02-08T11:26:56 < karlp> kintis uart has like 60 registers, all 8 bit, with anote "only 8bit acces is supported"
2024-02-08T11:27:09 < karlp> so you're doing high/low bytes for fucking everything.
2024-02-08T11:27:15 < karlp> "bit 9 of data goes in this other register"
2024-02-08T11:27:17 < karlp> so gross.
2024-02-08T11:27:42 < qyx> did they buy some AVR IP leftovers?
2024-02-08T11:27:45 < karlp> the newer ones have like 6 32bit registers instead.
2024-02-08T11:28:01 < karlp> given the code samples I have for k70, it's coldfire code.
2024-02-08T11:28:14 < karlp> and coldfire came from 68k, 
2024-02-08T11:28:20 < karlp> so yeah, "tradition" I gues.
2024-02-08T11:30:14 < qyx> "During deep sleep, the board is supposed to consume power in the micro-amps range, but when measuring this myself with a multimeter, it consistently consumes about 1.3 mA"
2024-02-08T11:30:19 < qyx> hah what are you thinking
2024-02-08T11:30:30 < qyx> (esp32)
2024-02-08T11:30:44 < karlp> at least it deep sleeps
2024-02-08T12:29:19 < ventYl> thermostatic valve on WC radiator sometimes tend to start reasonate for no apparent reason. it then makes rather high pitch, pretty loud noise
2024-02-08T12:29:40 < ventYl> it sounds similar to flat EKG
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2024-02-08T14:21:20 < qyx> jpa-: no springs yet?
2024-02-08T14:21:52 < nomorekaki> no springs
2024-02-08T14:21:56 < nomorekaki> -30C
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2024-02-08T14:50:17 < jpa-> -30C, too cold to open mailbox
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2024-02-08T14:55:41 < qyx> re: shipping prices
2024-02-08T14:55:43 < qyx> https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/postal-services/parcel-delivery-eu/find-best-price-your-eu-parcel-delivery_en
2024-02-08T14:56:21 < qyx> and that's the reason, kids, why eu regulation is important
2024-02-08T14:56:52 < specing> free shippng in .de, 20 euros everywhere else
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2024-02-08T16:16:17 < qyx> lol zyp I like your store
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2024-02-08T18:11:49 < zyp> qyx, hmm?
2024-02-08T18:19:24 < jpa-> qyx: springs received, thanks a lot! now i just need to get your payment information
2024-02-08T18:24:32 < qyx> so 5 workdays?
2024-02-08T18:24:48 < qyx> this was faster than gls
2024-02-08T18:25:08 < qyx> zyp: it is so bare, I like it
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2024-02-08T19:51:21 < nomorekaki> what springs qyx is selling?
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2024-02-08T20:43:14 < Steffanx> Leaf Spring. Fresh ones. Fresh from the trees.
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2024-02-08T23:20:03 < karlp> nomorekaki: wrt newbies, I think it' sjust that less of them come to irc now, there's other options...
2024-02-08T23:25:41 < qyx> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWPdx--YVUE
2024-02-08T23:26:15 < qyx> also other spring lovers
2024-02-08T23:37:01 < karlp> fuck yeah, nxp not only a) fixed the weird ass caddr_t type, they also _fixed_ the fix when I suggest that might have been a shitty fix!
2024-02-08T23:37:23 < karlp> no more caddr_t at all! https://github.com/nxp-mcuxpresso/mcux-sdk/commit/e345b8b157a2287cb659647cd121b9f9b20e4a5b
2024-02-08T23:37:29 < karlp> I'm impressed.
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--- Day changed pe helmi 09 2024
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2024-02-09T00:35:34 < zyp> nice
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2024-02-09T01:34:30 < nomorekaki> nxp was the bestest all along
2024-02-09T01:36:18 < nomorekaki> what was the issue with caddr_t?
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2024-02-09T09:23:15 < Steffanx> Is jbo this evil too? https://github.com/lvgl/lvgl/issues/5555
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2024-02-09T10:45:50 < jpa-> lol, dongs in comments
2024-02-09T10:46:00 < jpa-> it's not that hard to add it out-of-tree
2024-02-09T10:46:22 < jpa-> jbo level evilness would be to forbid it in license ;)
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2024-02-09T11:46:48 < Steffanx> Do you still love jbo, jpa- ?
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2024-02-09T12:04:44 < Nightphyr3> Hello guys! I'm new here and I'd like to introduce myself.
2024-02-09T12:08:29 < Steffanx> Welcome. 
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2024-02-09T13:04:44  * karlp waves at the door....
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2024-02-09T13:37:53 < jpa-> Steffanx was too much for the newbie
2024-02-09T13:45:29 < mawk> I've got a defective PCBite scope probe
2024-02-09T13:45:32 < mawk> beautiful
2024-02-09T13:45:45 < mawk> good thing I caught it before spending 4h wondering what's wrong with my device
2024-02-09T13:46:13 < mawk> it drops like 2V for no reason and can't be calibrated, the scope calibration output thing is all garbled up no matter how much I turn the screw
2024-02-09T13:46:27 < mawk> I got it from eleshop.nl
2024-02-09T13:46:31 < mawk> probably ran by Steffanx 
2024-02-09T13:48:43 < mawk> and I stabbed myself with it
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2024-02-09T13:57:56 < karlp> hrm, total phase data center just says "host disconnected" immediately? what's it upset about?
2024-02-09T13:58:02 < karlp> oh, that was in my typiun gbuffer
2024-02-09T13:58:21 < karlp> solution was to connect the hub to a different port, so it was getting 4.65V, insteadof 4.5V.
2024-02-09T13:58:30 < karlp> still doesn't work on linux though, which is a bit lame.
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2024-02-09T16:07:23 < zyp> karlp, got a beagle?
2024-02-09T16:08:11 < zyp> IME the PHY in the beagle can be more sensitive to VBUS drops than the device, so the beagle can see the host as disconnected while the device is still perfectly happy
2024-02-09T16:10:02 < zyp> so if you're pulling some current, I recommend connecting the beagle to a powered hub through a short/decent cable
2024-02-09T16:23:55 < qyx> mawk: which one
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2024-02-09T16:46:34 < karlp> zyp: yeah 
2024-02-09T16:46:49 < karlp> it now works in a windows VM, but not in linux *shrugs*
2024-02-09T16:47:08 < karlp> a little tedious, but not as tedious as the rest of this...
2024-02-09T16:52:02 < karlp> kinetis fucking 8bit shit are such a pain.
2024-02-09T16:52:21 < karlp> not being able to just do "p *USB0" and looka t the registers, having to do them one by one...
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2024-02-09T21:01:09 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Anyone have a suggestion why STM32L4P5 would fail when you try to erase flash page 130?
2024-02-09T21:01:24 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I basically start erasing from page 32-255, but as soon as I hit page 130 it hard faults
2024-02-09T21:03:04 < ventYl> where are you executing from?
2024-02-09T21:03:50 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Bootloader, it's at 0x8000000
2024-02-09T21:05:24 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I'm starting erase from page32 (0x8020000) and it should go to 0x080FFFF
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2024-02-09T21:06:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> *0x080FFFFF
2024-02-09T21:16:36 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Do I have to maybe erase Bank1 and then Bank2?
2024-02-09T21:16:42 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Nothing else comes to mind
2024-02-09T21:18:51 < ventYl> i've been asking just for the  case that you are executing from flash and target MCU does not support that while erasing
2024-02-09T21:19:04 < ventYl> and now I got HardFault myself
2024-02-09T21:22:58 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Yeah, I think it's most likely the issue that I'm trying to erase both banks using one operation
2024-02-09T21:23:13 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I just limited the last page to be FLASH_BANK1_END and now I don't get hard fault
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2024-02-09T22:47:32 < Steffanx> Yes mawk I obviously own eleshop. Today I can swap you a probe for Covid. Want some? 🤧
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2024-02-09T22:57:59 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Maybe a stupid question; but does HAL_FLASH_Program require that you somehow split writes in bank1 and bank2?
2024-02-09T22:58:14 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I'm again getting hard fault when writting to 0x8080000
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2024-02-09T23:59:33 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So writting beyond 0x8080000 gives following errors: HAL_FLASH_ERROR_PGS, HAL_FLASH_ERROR_PROG and HAL_FLASH_ERROR_PGA
--- Day changed la helmi 10 2024
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2024-02-10T00:44:00 < qyx> ColdKeybo[a]rd: how much flas does your MCU have?
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2024-02-10T01:18:02 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> 1MB
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2024-02-10T13:40:25 < Xeroine> Hello, from what I understand the ST-LINK/V2 and the ST-LINK/V2-ISOL should work with all STM8 and STM32 MCUs but the ST-LINK/V2-ISOL provides some kind of protection for the PC that you use to program the MCU if you wire the MCU wrong to the programmer, right?
2024-02-10T13:41:46 < Xeroine> jesus it costs 70 EUR, nevermind
2024-02-10T13:46:58 < Mangy_Dog> get the clone link of ali
2024-02-10T13:47:02 < Mangy_Dog> get a few in fact
2024-02-10T13:47:06 < Mangy_Dog> theyre like $2
2024-02-10T13:53:13 < Xeroine> yeah I'll check it out, thanks
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2024-02-10T14:22:46 < qyx> and how would getting a sh.t cloned jlink protect your pc?
2024-02-10T14:23:40 < qyx> and if you are interested in stm8/32 only, why not stlinkv3?
2024-02-10T14:24:24 < Mangy_Dog> I dont know about protecting the pc :p but programming sure...
2024-02-10T14:24:33 < Mangy_Dog> does the official stlink protect the pc?
2024-02-10T14:24:44 < Mangy_Dog> i mean maybe it has opto couplers or something going on inside it
2024-02-10T14:24:53 < Mangy_Dog> but if you just want to program your projects....
2024-02-10T14:26:44 < qyx> idk that was the question
2024-02-10T14:27:24 < qyx> I am not really interested because my pc usually has less value than the board attached to it
2024-02-10T14:28:23 < Mangy_Dog> tbh unless you throw 240v down the 5v line, usb ports do actually have some protection inside them
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2024-02-10T17:42:20 < jpa-> usb isolators are cheap and do the same
2024-02-10T17:58:38 < qyx> jpa knows
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2024-02-10T18:04:05 < mawk> cheap?
2024-02-10T18:04:20 < mawk> the usb isolator my work bought are seemingly made of gold given how they're very afraid of me handling them
2024-02-10T18:04:41 < mawk> it's USB hubs with 4 ports and opto isolation for data 
2024-02-10T18:04:46 < mawk> and galvanic isolation for power
2024-02-10T18:05:01 < mawk> but maybe I have a reputation of breaking stuff 
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2024-02-10T18:19:47 < qyx> I don't know what's the motivation of a maker quality hardware maker to require their users to turn on power using a I2C PMIC first before being able to use a component on board
2024-02-10T18:19:58 < qyx> that surely filters out 90% of people including me
2024-02-10T18:20:26 < qyx> because I don't feel like programming a custom component for esphome
2024-02-10T18:21:08 < qyx> https://wiki.dfrobot.com/SKU_DFR0975_FireBeetle_2_Board_ESP32_S3#target_5
2024-02-10T18:23:02 < qyx> and even if I do, camera component doesn't allow its I2C pins to be shared
2024-02-10T18:23:19 < qyx> and that weird pmic uses shared I2C with the camera of course
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2024-02-10T19:03:10 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.woodland.cafe/RokoMijic/status/1755632947158290481#m
2024-02-10T19:03:29 < Laurenceb_> designated babby clone Musk bulling squads
2024-02-10T19:04:10 < qyx> ardweeno pro laurent, how do I i2c?
2024-02-10T19:06:36 < Laurenceb_> on tarduino?
2024-02-10T19:07:05 < Laurenceb_> its called wire iirc
2024-02-10T19:11:34 < qyx> TwoWire?
2024-02-10T19:12:04 < qyx> oh yeah tw->beginTransmission
2024-02-10T19:19:59 < jpa-> mawk: maybe they are USB HS or SS? from st-link plain old USB FS is enough, they are like 15 EUR  https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/DFRobot/FIT0860?qs=Rp5uXu7WBW%2FubdfudbMgxA%3D%3D
2024-02-10T19:22:02 < qyx> lol I did ardweeno LED
2024-02-10T19:22:08 < qyx> call me a pro now
2024-02-10T19:22:17 < qyx> time to move on to i2c
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2024-02-10T20:28:53 < qyx> 1 hour later and I am still not able to even init the bus
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2024-02-10T20:40:47 < jpa-> time to bitbang it
2024-02-10T21:14:22 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/CkRVT
2024-02-10T21:14:36 < qyx> honestly I don't know how to persuade this maker thing to cooperate
2024-02-10T21:14:54 < qyx>             #include <Wire.h>
2024-02-10T21:14:55 < qyx>             Wire.begin();
2024-02-10T21:14:58 < qyx> this is all I did
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2024-02-10T22:03:00 < qyx> holy cow, if you want to include a header in a lambda code snippet, you need to list it in the yaml under the "includes" key
2024-02-10T22:03:10 < qyx> but beware, this only includes a yaml-local file
2024-02-10T22:03:28 < qyx> so you have to do a local header and *inside* that header type #include <Wire.h>
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2024-02-10T23:15:24 < qyx> nah works
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--- Day changed su helmi 11 2024
2024-02-11T00:04:51 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: windows95man won
2024-02-11T00:11:24 < Steffanx> That what nomorekaki ?
2024-02-11T00:11:36 < nomorekaki> the competition
2024-02-11T00:12:16 < nomorekaki> I was correct about the contestant for EV but wrong about the song
2024-02-11T00:12:41 < Steffanx> Idk about such competition 
2024-02-11T00:13:00 < Steffanx> Oh Eurovision 
2024-02-11T00:13:46 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip7rqynpohY
2024-02-11T00:15:38 < Steffanx> What to say...
2024-02-11T00:15:50 < nomorekaki> :D
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2024-02-11T00:37:42 < Laurenceb_> Q predicted this
2024-02-11T00:37:43 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.woodland.cafe/pic/orig/media%2FGF5v-wAXgAAiwqs.jpg
2024-02-11T00:38:19 < Laurenceb_> anon is Putler confirmed
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2024-02-11T02:26:07 < Laurenceb_> lmao Vuash accidentally opened his horse porn folder on livestream
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2024-02-11T11:59:54 < PaulFertser> karlp: do you by any chance have access to lpc55 something that's not lpc55s36?
2024-02-11T12:01:19 < PaulFertser> Would be nice to see device id to add autodetection to a new flash driver.
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2024-02-11T12:02:59 < PaulFertser> The docs are surprisingly not exactly accurate, I expected better from NXP.
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2024-02-11T15:14:41 < nomorekaki> sweden news: girls 15 and 14 carried 6 hand granades in a bag in public areas in Stockholm
2024-02-11T15:17:49 < nomorekaki> the mother of 15 year old busted them when found the bag
2024-02-11T15:22:54 < nomorekaki> I wonder if getting caught with hand granades is now the same level than when they find the vape pen
2024-02-11T15:24:08 < specing> getting caugt with a vape is worse
2024-02-11T15:32:56 < nomorekaki> I have hard time grasping the idea of kids with hand granades in scandinavian country
2024-02-11T15:44:16 < nomorekaki> I cannot find the video where 12year old kid shoots appartment's front door full of holes with kalashnikov
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2024-02-11T15:52:51 < nomorekaki> https://twitter.com/CrimeSwedish/status/1616933925263138817
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2024-02-11T16:33:43 < antto> kakilashnikov
2024-02-11T16:42:34 < nomorekaki> *pew pew*
2024-02-11T16:44:24 < jbo> I hope they were wearing hearing protection (or just not doing this to begin with - obviously)
2024-02-11T16:45:06 < jbo> why on earth does stuff like this happen?
2024-02-11T16:45:23 < jbo> why can a 12 years old get a gun/rifle anyway?
2024-02-11T16:50:56 < nomorekaki> illegal drug sales fund gangs and gangs use 13something kids to shoot up their rivals because under 15 cannot go to jail or anything
2024-02-11T16:52:42 < nomorekaki> get some counceling and get placed in foster home
2024-02-11T16:54:20 < specing> yup
2024-02-11T16:56:39 < nomorekaki> swedish gangs are trying to land to finland too
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2024-02-11T16:58:26 < nomorekaki> and there was news a week ago that underground illegal weapons sales have transfered from dark web to open telegram channels in finland
2024-02-11T16:58:32 < antto> swedish kindergarten mafia
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2024-02-11T19:33:07 < karlp> PaulFertser: nope sorry.
2024-02-11T19:33:34 < karlp> I only have nxp k32la2, k64, k66 and k70.
2024-02-11T19:42:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: OK, good to know. From your recent posts I got an impression you got access to a very wide assortment there.
2024-02-11T19:43:57 < PaulFertser> And very wide range of extreme cleanup (aka fix all those nasty decades old bugs) assignments.
2024-02-11T19:48:24 < jpa-> access to very wide range of headaches
2024-02-11T19:50:33 < karlp> we were throwing out a bunch of older stuff in a n office cleanup, but I never had tow ork on the fujitsu or ppc or imx stuff.
2024-02-11T19:50:47 < karlp> oh, we have xmc4800 too, but I'm not currently involved on them.
2024-02-11T19:58:11 < PaulFertser> The PPC and iMX were probably running Linux?
2024-02-11T19:59:06 < PaulFertser> Or a RTOS?
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2024-02-11T20:09:17 < karlp> some old prop rtos apparently.
2024-02-11T20:09:44 < karlp> current is now just plain freertos.
2024-02-11T20:10:27 < PaulFertser> Don't ever need anything fancier with MMU but RT? Like QNX or VxWorks or RTEMS?
2024-02-11T20:10:58  * karlp shrugs
2024-02-11T20:11:49 < PaulFertser> Or Xenomai. Would be interesting to hear some stories about that area.
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2024-02-11T21:07:51 < mawk> HS yeah jpa- 
2024-02-11T21:07:53 < mawk> 480Mbps
2024-02-11T21:08:33 < mawk> yeah I don't know why they bought it so fast
2024-02-11T21:08:40 < mawk> it's used exclusively for CDC-ACM
2024-02-11T21:09:15 < mawk> maybe next time they will consult with R&D with what to buy instead of spending thousands
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2024-02-11T21:48:26 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.woodland.cafe/pic/media%2FGGC7ikwW4AAaB-F.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2024-02-11T22:06:40 < karlp> PaulFertser: what flash driver patch is this?
2024-02-11T22:07:33 < karlp> https://review.openocd.org/c/openocd/+/6800 ?
2024-02-11T22:10:00 < karlp> no, must be something else...
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2024-02-11T22:13:14 < PaulFertser> karlp: not published yet, wip
2024-02-11T22:13:48 < PaulFertser> karlp: https://github.com/transcelestial/openocd/commit/e4fadbeddb13374e972b2655ce9f80eef6a39ede
2024-02-11T22:16:02 < jpa-> mawk: yeah, HS isolators used to be really hard to find and expensive; that has changed though
2024-02-11T22:16:31 < karlp> given that two silicon vendors both dropped them as discrete parts in the same year, after a longgggg obvious absence, I'd suspect a patent expired or something?
2024-02-11T22:16:37 < PaulFertser> There's some really puzzling situation with the stack pointer there, somehow legit sram areas can't be used for stack, I was getting hardfaults with the first "push". With same addresses usable for reading and writing by the same code when not used as stack...
2024-02-11T22:18:06 < karlp> wha'ts this 0x50000040 stuff?
2024-02-11T22:18:11 < karlp> I saw that on something else recently?
2024-02-11T22:18:59 < PaulFertser> karlp: just sysresetreq
2024-02-11T22:19:06 < PaulFertser> Ah no
2024-02-11T22:19:20 < PaulFertser> karlp: the bootloader reads from that fixed location before jumping to app.
2024-02-11T22:20:08 < PaulFertser> So the official doc says set a watchpoint there to have it stopped before the first instructions as because of "reasons" they can't support normal proper reset vector catch.
2024-02-11T22:21:26 < PaulFertser> karlp: (two silicon vendors) are you talking about lpc? It's not just NXP releasing it?
2024-02-11T22:21:31 < karlp> https://review.openocd.org/c/openocd/+/6787/4/tcl/target/lpc55S69.cfg has it too.
2024-02-11T22:21:42 < karlp> PaulFertser: no, was talking abotu ti and AD both having hs usb isolator parts now.
2024-02-11T22:22:39 < PaulFertser> karlp: hah yes but I made it in a more proper way without reading Peter's comments.
2024-02-11T22:23:10 < karlp> 6800 has lpc55 as well, talk to those guys?
2024-02-11T22:23:31 < PaulFertser> 2 years ago
2024-02-11T22:23:53 < PaulFertser> Thank you for the pointer, when I push it to Gerrit I'll post a link in the comments of those changes.
2024-02-11T22:27:31 < karlp> am I correct that the lpc55 has rom functions for doing flash ops, and you're just talking to them?
2024-02-11T22:27:42 < zyp> probably
2024-02-11T22:27:44 < PaulFertser> Yes, but register-level access is also documented.
2024-02-11T22:28:14 < zyp> unlike every other lpc chip?
2024-02-11T22:28:22 < karlp> hrmn, P1 port got turned on by the utility, I guess that projet is back up again then...
2024-02-11T22:28:22 < PaulFertser> Also there're two sets of ROM functions capable of flashing, one is for internal flash only and another for SPI connected flash and probably something else. I implemented it via the flash API for now.
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2024-02-11T22:37:39 < PaulFertser> It's also kinda odd to see a part which can not be connected with SWD in any regular way when the flash is erased.
2024-02-11T22:39:23 < PaulFertser> (and erased flash to be unreadable because it has some internal ECC (or just parity I do not remember anymore) and it doesn't match and any read from a location where it doesn't just fails)
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--- Day changed ma helmi 12 2024
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2024-02-12T00:20:55 < jbo> zyp, std::optional is fairly lightweight, right? (i.e. for use on STM32 with newlib)
2024-02-12T00:28:17 < zyp> I haven't measured, but yeah, should be
2024-02-12T00:29:00 < zyp> should be something like: template <typename T> struct optional { bool valid; T value; };
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2024-02-12T00:41:24 < jbo> makes sense
2024-02-12T00:43:48 < Steffanx> So happy with the new president, jpa- ?
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2024-02-12T01:19:33 < Laurenceb_> top kek
2024-02-12T01:19:36 < Laurenceb_> top kek
2024-02-12T01:19:37 < Laurenceb_> https://assets-jpcust.jwpsrv.com/thumbnails/cr5lr5jd-720.jpg
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2024-02-12T01:44:22 < qyx> I just had a nightmare about not being able to turn a circuit breaker back on
2024-02-12T01:44:46 < qyx> then the upstream one tripped
2024-02-12T01:45:57 < qyx> there is nothing I hate more than a badly chosen selectivity
2024-02-12T01:46:08 < qyx> so I woke up
2024-02-12T01:49:20 < zyp> the EVSE standards for DC RCDs seems to have some weird selectivity rules AIUI
2024-02-12T01:49:37 < zyp> although I haven't purchased and read the actual standard yet, so I'm not entirely sure on it
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2024-02-12T01:51:04 < zyp> but AIUI they have a required no-trip-time for AC leakage currents that ensures that an upstream RCD will trip first on AC faults
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2024-02-12T01:56:15 < zyp> I guess it's something like an AC fault is considered a more serious issue and is not allowed to be handled by the same auto-reconnect feature that a DC fault can be handled by, or something
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2024-02-12T02:22:35 < qyx> do they have an auto-reconnect feature?
2024-02-12T02:23:03 < qyx> so it is more like a ground fault monitor?
2024-02-12T02:23:25 < qyx> also, why jlcpcb stopped manufacturing my pcbs halfway
2024-02-12T02:23:54 < qyx> they promised uninterrupted service during their new year
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2024-02-12T08:35:53 < jpa-> Steffanx: not very, but ok enough
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2024-02-12T10:25:34 < Steffanx> Qyx: They do say "The build time might be 2 days longer than usual during the LNY holiday."
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2024-02-12T11:15:26 < bdmt> Hello guys, I'm having issues with TrustZone on the STM32U5 and STM32L5 series. I need to erase non-secure pages from the secure domain, but it raises a violation interrupt. In dual-bank mode, with bank1 secure and bank2 non-secure it works. If dbank=0 and I have some pages S and the rest NS, it does not. Is dual bank mandatory for this to work ? Or is it a configuration issue ?
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2024-02-12T13:44:43 < karlp> that sounds pretty unfun...
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2024-02-12T14:55:30 < qyx> bdmt: you are probably the first one here using U5
2024-02-12T14:57:32 < qyx> mawk: can your math apparatus imagine computing a 65536+ real fft using smaller ffts? (from cmsis or other libraries)
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2024-02-12T15:51:38 < mawk> isn't that how the fft works qyx?
2024-02-12T15:51:43 < mawk> computing a ft using smaller ft
2024-02-12T16:28:32 < jpa-> yeah, sounds like fft to me; and yeah, if you are working in blocks for some reason, you can combine multiple fft results later
2024-02-12T16:28:47 < jpa-> it will take the same or more time than just doing the big fft directly
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2024-02-12T16:52:16 < karlp> xfucking hell.
2024-02-12T16:52:26 < karlp> I got tinyusb to work on a "meant to be supported" board
2024-02-12T16:52:31 < karlp> but I had to edit the clock configs in the tree
2024-02-12T16:52:41 < karlp> whoo, not sure how well tested that actually was.
2024-02-12T16:56:20 < emeb_mac> "Eh, close enough"
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2024-02-12T17:09:04 < jbo> morning
2024-02-12T17:15:01 < karlp> its' relying on a "project template" clock config file from the nxp mcux sdk, i wonder if nxp just changed the defaults behind them...
2024-02-12T17:15:51 < karlp> theyv'e been busy though, already has mcx-n9 support, those boards only came out a week ro two ago.
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2024-02-12T18:55:19 < qyx> mawk: jpa-: cmsis is 8k max and I ideally need sub-mHz resolution with 10 Hz sampling
2024-02-12T18:55:32 < qyx> computing power is not an issue much
2024-02-12T18:56:45 < qyx> and I didn't want to reinvent the whole thing so my impression was there is some easy algo to combine multiple smaller ffts
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2024-02-12T19:30:35 < jpa-> qyx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_diagram
2024-02-12T19:31:34 < jpa-> if you only need a part of the spectrum though, it may be more effective to do plain old DFT of the frequencies you are interested in
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2024-02-12T20:03:17 < machinehum> Transformerless supplies are typically like ... sub 10mA right?
2024-02-12T20:04:05 < machinehum> There isn't some topology I haven't heard of
2024-02-12T20:04:28 < machinehum> You basically rectify, power resistors, cap and zener
2024-02-12T20:07:23 < jpa-> well, you'll get 300 VDC pretty easily at several amperes :)
2024-02-12T20:07:55 < jpa-> more importantly, transformerless supplies are non-isolated, which limits their applications much more than the current or power factor or efficiency does
2024-02-12T20:27:44 < qyx> jpa-: sounds exactly what I want
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2024-02-12T20:28:27 < sauce> SR087 does 100mA
2024-02-12T20:28:38 < sauce> efficiency is pretty sad tho
2024-02-12T20:29:05 < sauce> better than a shunt i guess
2024-02-12T20:38:15 < sauce> oh interesting, thought it was a charge pump but it's just a chopper
2024-02-12T20:45:37 < machinehum> hmm
2024-02-12T20:46:11 < machinehum> They're listed a 470uF but based on what you need I feel like it might have to be even higher
2024-02-12T20:46:18 < machinehum> They've*
2024-02-12T20:47:20 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Just checking, if I want to route 2.4GHz trace on a 2 layer board... Can I just put a GND pour around the feed part instead of having to have ie 2mm wide trace because my GND is almost 1.6mm away from the trace?
2024-02-12T20:50:44 < jpa-> ColdKeybo[a]rd: yes, you can do coplanar microstrip topology
2024-02-12T20:51:56 < sauce> >Efficiency and output current capability may drop with increased capacitance because of a smaller conduction angle associated with lower ripple
2024-02-12T20:52:04 < jpa-> kicad calculator says that ground plane 1.6 mm away + ground on sides at 0.15 mm distance gives 50 ohm for 0.85 mm trace
2024-02-12T20:53:21 < jpa-> machinehum: why no transformers?
2024-02-12T20:53:35 < sauce> > The SR086/SR087 circuits, as shown in the Functional Block Diagrams, meet FCC Class B and CISPR 14-1 (household appliances) requirements for conducted emissions for combined loads of less than 20 mA 
2024-02-12T20:53:40 < sauce> ahaha now there's a buried lede
2024-02-12T20:59:09 < machinehum> jpa-: Someone emailed me about a project, he wanted a really small 1A power supply and I guess he looked at supplies in this range and noticed the transformer was the biggest part and then said ... "hmm, maybe a transformerless supply!"
2024-02-12T20:59:19 < machinehum> To which I said ... "no"
2024-02-12T21:02:31 < machinehum> Not really taking on anything right now, but I'll at least exchange a few emails
2024-02-12T21:02:37 < machinehum> Maybe pass of the lead
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2024-02-12T21:16:58 < jpa-> machinehum: why not just use a tiny transformer
2024-02-12T21:19:22 < machinehum> jpa-: Yes exactly
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2024-02-12T21:34:42 < Steffanx> How's the magic self erasing USB drive machinehum ?
2024-02-12T21:37:38 < machinehum> Steffanx: Nearly funded
2024-02-12T21:37:49 < machinehum> https://www.crowdsupply.com/interrupt-labs/ovrdrive-usb/preview-crowdfunding
2024-02-12T21:38:17 < machinehum> Seems as though a few people wanted to buy it, so I'm humbled and thankful
2024-02-12T21:41:12 < ventYl> nah, it wants me to log in before I can see *anything*
2024-02-12T21:41:26 < sauce> just lose the last dir in the url
2024-02-12T21:45:36 < machinehum> Sorry: https://www.crowdsupply.com/interrupt-labs/ovrdrive-usb
2024-02-12T21:46:15 < ventYl> hm, why atmel?
2024-02-12T21:46:26 < ventYl> is there any real advantage?
2024-02-12T21:46:55 < machinehum> lol no
2024-02-12T21:47:04 < machinehum> Honestly I don't knew kinda just threw it down
2024-02-12T21:47:44 < ventYl> I hope that the debugwire works with arduino already
2024-02-12T21:47:53 < ventYl> without that, it would be major PITA to develop literally anything
2024-02-12T21:48:14 < machinehum> They're cheap and highly abundant, doesn't need to do anything complex, and don't need a 3.3V regulator
2024-02-12T21:48:41 < machinehum> ventYl: What do you mean? Makefile project, flashes with avrdude
2024-02-12T21:49:09 < machinehum> I don't think you can install the Arduino bootloader on that guy
2024-02-12T21:50:24 < ventYl> machinehum: I personally wouldn't work with platform that doesn't allow to attach debugger. olders Atmels didn't have this feature. Newers do but I am not aware of the support in toolchains.
2024-02-12T21:51:59 < machinehum> It's like 40 lines of code with one include
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2024-02-12T21:57:31 < ventYl> then it's probably OK :)
2024-02-12T21:57:52 < ventYl> i am tired of "blink you little shit" kind of debugging I had to do with atmegas
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2024-02-12T22:04:48 < machinehum> Anything more complex than what I've done I would have used a modern mcu
2024-02-12T22:05:02 < Steffanx> debugWire is damn old already. Some bigger one even had jtag
2024-02-12T22:05:25 < Steffanx> Not sure what modern AVRs use. Something PDI based?
2024-02-12T22:05:38 < ventYl> yeah, its old but even though the support in tooling is pretty bad
2024-02-12T22:05:54 < ventYl> arduino released a build where they consider debugger support not experimental just a few days ago
2024-02-12T22:05:58 < machinehum> I think I blinked my way though developing a nrf24 driver on an atmega a while ago lol
2024-02-12T22:06:07 < Steffanx> Pros use Microchip Studio 🙄
2024-02-12T22:06:35 < Steffanx> Formerly known as Atmel Studio
2024-02-12T22:06:47 < ventYl> wasn't that deprecated like... a decade ago?
2024-02-12T22:07:06 < Steffanx> No...
2024-02-12T22:07:20 < Steffanx> That was AVR Studio 
2024-02-12T22:07:24 < ventYl> ah
2024-02-12T22:07:46 < Steffanx> Good old times (not)
2024-02-12T22:08:16 < ventYl> I've never used that. First thing I've used AVR with was some gcc 4 + avr-libc + avrdude
2024-02-12T22:09:03 < Steffanx> Skipping the wonderful WinAVR?!
2024-02-12T22:09:22 < ventYl> I skipped all the wonderful windows long before that
2024-02-12T22:09:35 < ventYl> and that first thing was incredibly stupid single-function virtual machine
2024-02-12T22:09:50 < ventYl> because the device had some shitty atmega32 with tons of fram
2024-02-12T22:10:01 < ventYl> so why not use atmega to execute code from fram?
2024-02-12T22:11:27 < Steffanx> You must be behind this "lunix on AVR" project too
2024-02-12T22:11:48 < nomorekaki> pro ventYl could be
2024-02-12T22:12:08 < Steffanx> Absolutely 
2024-02-12T22:12:12 < ventYl> wat?
2024-02-12T22:12:44 < ventYl> ah, the one where someone executed ARM virtual machine on AVR and booted into bash for two or three days?
2024-02-12T22:13:46 < nomorekaki> there was linux kernel for AVR years ago
2024-02-12T22:13:53 < ventYl> https://github.com/ventZl/CMaRISC/blob/master/src/libvm/core.c diz shit
2024-02-12T22:13:57 < Steffanx> Yeah. Was only a few hours though 
2024-02-12T22:14:05 < ventYl> comments in $local_language only
2024-02-12T22:14:08 < nomorekaki> it used some ancient 2.4 kernel
2024-02-12T22:14:36 < ventYl> some very niche mutation of mmu-less linux?
2024-02-12T22:14:45 < nomorekaki> yes
2024-02-12T22:14:59 < nomorekaki> that's why it had to use some early 2.x kernel
2024-02-12T22:15:55 < ventYl> gross
2024-02-12T22:20:52 < ventYl> well, it ran mc68k amigas too
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2024-02-12T22:54:14 < qyx> those were the times of avr
2024-02-12T22:54:24 < qyx> return to innocence
2024-02-12T22:54:34 < qyx> no arm sins
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2024-02-12T23:22:01 < qyx> so for a 2^16 fft I need a 2^15*sizeof(double) table of twiddle factors
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2024-02-13T20:30:02 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Am I crazy or on this TI eval board capacitors and resistor that is supposed to be between GND and Shield is actually connected between the two different pins of the shield? And one end of the shield is connected directly to GND -> https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sllu227a/sllu227a.pdf?ts=1706901958234&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FTUSB4041I-Q1
2024-02-13T20:30:10 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Page 9
2024-02-13T20:35:52 < jpa-> which of the connectors? seems each one is a bit different :D
2024-02-13T20:36:31 < jpa-> J4 seems reasonable and the others seem wrong
2024-02-13T20:36:52 < jpa-> though modern interpretation may be that direct connection of the shield to GND is ok
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2024-02-13T20:39:59 < jpa-> the pcb layout appears correct, so probably just a schematic error
2024-02-13T20:54:58 < qyx> jpa-: what, gnd to shield? why modern?
2024-02-13T21:12:20 < zyp> that's the USB-C recommendation
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2024-02-13T21:19:53 < zyp> requirement actually, not recommendation
2024-02-13T21:20:21 < zyp> type-c spec r2.3 page 45 3.2.1 point 11: «The receptacle shell shall be connected to the PCB ground plane.»
2024-02-13T21:23:11 < zyp> page 139 3.10.1: «The receptacle shell should have sufficient connection points to the system PCB GND plane with
2024-02-13T21:23:14 < zyp> apertures as small as possible. Figure 3-77 illustrates an example with multiple solder tails to
2024-02-13T21:23:17 < zyp> connect the receptacle shell to system PCB GND.»
2024-02-13T21:29:38 < qyx> aha it is usb-c related
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2024-02-13T21:52:43 < Steffanx> welcome nomorekaki, hows farming
2024-02-13T21:52:56 < nomorekaki> cold
2024-02-13T21:54:30 < nomorekaki> you seem excited today
2024-02-13T21:54:56 < Steffanx> lolwut?
2024-02-13T21:54:59 < Steffanx> Me excited?!
2024-02-13T21:55:33 < Steffanx> That mental state doesn't suit me.
2024-02-13T21:59:54 < Steffanx> I think I'm finnish :o
2024-02-13T22:05:28 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> jpa- You are right. Lol. All of them are different
2024-02-13T22:05:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> And even P4 has only one pin of the shield connected
2024-02-13T22:12:02 < Steffanx> 0.163678
2024-02-13T22:12:11 < Steffanx> whops ignore that
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2024-02-13T22:52:25 < qyx> I discovered meshtastic today
2024-02-13T22:53:09 < qyx> I am not sure yet whether they are joking or they are serious
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--- Day changed ke helmi 14 2024
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2024-02-14T00:14:36  * qyx @ greek metal with vocals from norway
2024-02-14T00:15:08 < Steffanx> Time to find something more peaceful and sleep qyx
2024-02-14T00:16:26 < qyx> this is full of peace and hope
2024-02-14T00:17:11 < Steffanx> Absolutely. When you plug your ears 
2024-02-14T00:17:33 < qyx> you don't understand
2024-02-14T00:18:49 < qyx> the more intense the music, the more important the message inside
2024-02-14T00:19:20 < qyx> you need to let the music fulfill you
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2024-02-14T00:22:21 < qyx> how can you even, your country has one of the best metal singers
2024-02-14T00:23:30 < Steffanx> Examples?
2024-02-14T00:24:27 < qyx> simone simons, dianne van giersbergen for the start
2024-02-14T00:25:46 < Steffanx> Lol I don't have a clue
2024-02-14T00:26:13 < qyx> also anneke v.g., albeit not exactly metal
2024-02-14T00:26:43 < Steffanx> not even mentioning Sharon den Adel?
2024-02-14T00:27:01 < qyx> that too, but I am not much into within temptation
2024-02-14T00:27:07 < qyx> but they are good too
2024-02-14T00:27:44 < qyx> tbh I didn't jnow she is dutch too
2024-02-14T00:28:42 < Steffanx> I listened to Simone and Dianne just now.. "no thanks" is my conclusion:P
2024-02-14T00:28:50 < qyx> lol
2024-02-14T00:30:06 < qyx> let me enlighten you https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cEgsUUhqdlg&pp=ygUdYXBvY2FseXB0aWNhIGVwaWNhIHRpc2UgYWdhaW4%3D
2024-02-14T00:38:26 < qyx> also https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qcLGgfyOmZE
2024-02-14T00:38:34 < qyx> pretty new
2024-02-14T00:38:42 < qyx> I mean the clip
2024-02-14T00:39:08 < Steffanx> Around 4.25-30 it's not too bad 😋
2024-02-14T00:39:42 < Steffanx> (pretty much when the high singing stops )
2024-02-14T00:42:04 < qyx> and Sharon with higher highs is ok? :D
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2024-02-14T01:06:32 < qyx> back on topic, lqfp/bga for high vibration environment?
2024-02-14T01:07:27 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: when you move to funland?
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2024-02-14T01:17:28 < qyx> nah it probably doesn't matter
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2024-02-14T01:42:35 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhOU8vg43dg this could be you steff
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2024-02-14T01:54:59 < nomorekaki> Also you should consider Estonia
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2024-02-14T02:00:24 < PaulFertser> qyx: s/the more intense the music, the more important the message inside/the more intense the music, the more important the message inside SEEMS to be/
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2024-02-14T09:33:26 < qyx> PaulFertser: nah
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2024-02-14T11:00:18 < machinehum> https://www.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:products:sb:start
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2024-02-14T13:14:21 < karlp> fucking kinetis 8bit registers: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/pfb2G
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2024-02-14T13:18:12 < jpa-> they don't allow 32 bit reads?
2024-02-14T13:18:22 < karlp> nope. just returns zeros
2024-02-14T13:18:38 < karlp> fucking gross
2024-02-14T13:19:43 < karlp> k32l happily sends out SOF's and enumerates things.  k64 is... not.  not sure what's wrong yet, they're both "identical" peripherals, 
2024-02-14T14:35:02 < qyx> why are protoboards so expensive on mouser
2024-02-14T14:35:14 < qyx> for the same price I can have 5 custom PCBs
2024-02-14T14:36:59 < zyp> just do a run of protoboards on jlcpcb then
2024-02-14T14:38:28 < qyx> I feel like maker now when I tried esp32
2024-02-14T14:41:43 < qyx> see even pros do prototypes https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Digilent/6002-410-006?qs=GtmDRopnxzow495%2Fhs7slA%3D%3D
2024-02-14T14:47:25 < jpa-> pros do prototypes, but i wonder if they do prototypes with through-hole parts
2024-02-14T14:57:08 < zyp> pro-totype
2024-02-14T15:01:26 < qyx> I lametyped a pcb, sot-23-6 and tssop-6 mismatch
2024-02-14T15:01:45 < qyx> that's pretty sad
2024-02-14T15:11:04 < qyx> or maybe not? SOT457 is sot23-6
2024-02-14T15:11:43 < qyx> = TSOP-6 according to mouser
2024-02-14T15:38:31 < jadew> Someone in another channel gave me this. Good chuckle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LJC9vJluU
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2024-02-14T16:31:30 < jpa-> so, after a few weeks of trying it, i can say that Ondsel ES is my favourite FreeCAD fork so far
2024-02-14T16:44:35 < Steffanx> Is Ondsel ES actually a fork or just some tooling around FreeCAD?
2024-02-14T16:44:58 < Steffanx> ok fork :P
2024-02-14T16:45:05 < jpa-> they are contributing back, but getting their GUI changes merged seems to take some time
2024-02-14T16:45:23 < jpa-> feels different to use.. not really perfect but i think it is better
2024-02-14T16:46:20 < Steffanx> I still have to give FreeCAD a serious try. Solidworks works, but .. it's rather expensive (and i wouldnt use it commercially with my not so expensive copy).
2024-02-14T16:51:34 < jadew> Isn't Fusion360 still free?
2024-02-14T16:52:05 < Steffanx> For personal use.
2024-02-14T16:52:52 < Steffanx> and online only
2024-02-14T16:55:28 < Steffanx> (there are more options but .. )
2024-02-14T16:56:57 < Steffanx> I still have to check how crippled the CAM tooling is nowadays. Haven't used it for a while.
2024-02-14T16:57:23 < Steffanx> In solidworks its too advanced for me. Fusion 360 was perfect.
2024-02-14T17:03:12 < Steffanx> Lol trying some Ondsel release, crashing it it 30 seconds.
2024-02-14T17:04:18 < jpa-> haha, main branch freecad does the same on parrot's mac
2024-02-14T17:05:55 < Steffanx> ok, it didnt crash. Hang and after after a minute it was back and fine.
2024-02-14T17:06:27 < jadew> With opensource software you usually don't have this type of problems if you're using the same hardware the developer used.
2024-02-14T17:06:31 < Steffanx> hung(?)
2024-02-14T17:06:48 < Steffanx> lol jadew. 
2024-02-14T17:06:55 < jpa-> Steffanx: yes, we know you are well hung
2024-02-14T17:07:04 < Steffanx> You mean a Core 2 Duo from 2006, jadew ?
2024-02-14T17:07:28 < jpa-> and running gentoo with some custom set of flags
2024-02-14T17:07:48 < Steffanx> Oh did jbo forward the photos, jpa- ?
2024-02-14T17:08:22 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah - the comparison is not in his favor
2024-02-14T17:08:28 < jbo> hey!
2024-02-14T17:10:08 < jbo> https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
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2024-02-14T17:17:01 < Steffanx> Welcome jbo. How's life?
2024-02-14T17:17:36 < jbo> Steffanx, meh
2024-02-14T17:17:41 < jbo> so pretty good I guess, whatever.
2024-02-14T17:17:43 < jbo> there?
2024-02-14T17:19:08 < Steffanx> Except for being covided last week it's alright. I avoided it for years, and there it was. 
2024-02-14T17:19:16 < Steffanx> Should warn jadew.
2024-02-14T17:21:06 < karlp> zyp or anyone with usb desires, I have https://imgur.com/a/BqJM8te  the red warnings/errors on SOF jitter, they don't.... really matter right? those are on the working case?
2024-02-14T17:21:35 < karlp> for the non-working case, am I missing SOF entirely? is that the problem? 
2024-02-14T17:22:06 < qyx> fusion360 free for personal?
2024-02-14T17:22:27 < qyx> does generating public opensores designs count as personal?
2024-02-14T17:22:27 < Steffanx> Hobby.
2024-02-14T17:22:30 < karlp> it said frames 3-501, and the statstics tab on the right says 7300 SOF packets, so does it just mean "no, this one doesn't have SOF jitter errors"
2024-02-14T17:23:14 < qyx> I have my work as a hobby
2024-02-14T17:23:32 < karlp> the data0 vs data1 is the real problem I think...
2024-02-14T17:24:40 < karlp> setup->data1 can't be right...
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2024-02-14T17:26:50 < karlp> length is just wrong too. hrmm.
2024-02-14T17:44:13 < jpa-> karlp: SOF jitter comes from host anyway, so shouldn't matter
2024-02-14T17:44:42 < jpa-> ah, i can't read, you are doing host..
2024-02-14T17:45:21 < karlp> yeah, it's gotta be this setup/data1 thing.
2024-02-14T17:45:44 < karlp> I seem to be getting a Bus turnaround timeout error, which ... no-one seems to have seen before. so need to look closer.
2024-02-14T17:45:59 < karlp> realllly didn't expect "use the same peripheral" to be this problematic once I had all the clocks working..
2024-02-14T17:46:57 < jpa-> even the working case seems weird in that you have  SETUP DATA0,  IN DATA1,  OUT DATA1
2024-02-14T17:47:14 < jpa-> unless i've forgotten how this works
2024-02-14T17:47:44 < karlp> well, working tinyusb+k32l looks like that, as well as working mcuxpresso+k64.
2024-02-14T17:47:55 < karlp> it's just tinyusb+k64 that's busted. for... no clear reason I can see.
2024-02-14T17:48:05 < jpa-> but yeah, SETUP + DATA1 seems weird
2024-02-14T17:48:06 < karlp> only difference _should_ be the clock speed of the core.
2024-02-14T17:48:16 < jpa-> AFAIK SETUP should always be followed by DATA0
2024-02-14T17:48:17 < karlp> usb in a nutshell says setup is always data0.
2024-02-14T17:48:57 < karlp> and tinyusb stack says it's trying to do that, it prints "get descriptor: blah" and that matches exactly the bytes of the working setup txn from the beagle.
2024-02-14T17:49:17 < karlp> it just doesn't get out on the wire properly I guess.
2024-02-14T17:50:22 < jpa-> it's weird how the DATA1 0x4B 0x00 0x00 matches the IN DATA1 from the other capture
2024-02-14T17:50:32 < jpa-> i wonder if your analyzer could somehow be dropping packets?
2024-02-14T17:50:57 < jpa-> though that would be pretty fast response..
2024-02-14T17:51:41 < karlp> well, it doens't work with or without the analyser, so I wouldn't reallllly suspect the analyser?
2024-02-14T17:51:46 < jpa-> or, is there a 0x4B 0x00 0x00 left in some buffer that it ends up resending
2024-02-14T17:52:04 < karlp> and it works in the same wire config with a different stack, so I'm _pretttty_ sure it's "just more software"
2024-02-14T17:52:06 < jpa-> oh, but there are bazillion reasons why stuff doesn't work, and bad tools will just make red herrings :)
2024-02-14T17:52:19 < jpa-> but yeah, probably not that
2024-02-14T17:52:39 < jpa-> i just think the 4B 00 00 has to come from somewhere
2024-02-14T17:53:28 < karlp> hrm. need to keep going. I'm 
2024-02-14T17:53:37 < jpa-> usb analyzers can miss frames if the hardware is not obeying correct protocol, thouh
2024-02-14T17:53:42 < jpa-> *though
2024-02-14T17:53:50 < karlp> going to look at the buffer management more, I kinda feel like hte bustimeout error is a sideaffect, not the cause.
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2024-02-14T20:32:23 < zyp> karlp, huh, I haven't seen those SOF errors before
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2024-02-14T22:56:22 < karlp> yeah, I don't think they actually matter though. that's on the working device.  I just haven't used the beagle enough to understand how it was showing SOF in general.
2024-02-14T22:56:50 < karlp> tomorrow's step 1 is going to be trying to build tinyusb wiht -O0 and see if theres some UB thatmight be getting exposed by the faster processor
2024-02-14T22:56:56 < karlp> but that's a tomorrow work thing.
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2024-02-15T02:13:22 < octorian> So one thing I keep wondering about is emulators, for various purposes (including testing and running firmware off-device)
2024-02-15T02:13:35 < octorian> Along those lines, I just stumbled across Renode.  Anyone here hear of it or use it?
2024-02-15T02:17:25 < octorian> Though one thing I'd love, and don't see mentioned in any Renode examples, is the ability to create a mock control panel that simulates the display and input buttons for my device and makes it possible to do things more interactively.  (not for testing, but maybe as a way of making the UI usable outside of real hardware)
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2024-02-15T11:04:10 < karlp> renode is pretty great.
2024-02-15T11:04:19 < karlp> works realllly well.
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2024-02-15T11:07:18 < zyp> is that sarcasm?
2024-02-15T11:07:34 < karlp> no, I was very impressed with it when I last used it, hav eno reason to feel it got worse.
2024-02-15T11:07:45 < karlp> aandrew iirc was doi some work stuff with it too, was pretty impressed.
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2024-02-15T11:39:43 < machinehum> What the fuck where did the Ghostbuster cow go
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2024-02-15T11:40:24 < machinehum> Nevermind found it
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2024-02-15T13:40:30 < karlp> 297910 files changed, 49000357 deletions(-)
2024-02-15T13:40:32 < karlp> wheee.
2024-02-15T13:41:31 < karlp> vschode behaves a little better now...
2024-02-15T14:07:38 < karlp> anyone on a mac can paste me this? /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Info.plist ? (Ideally after `plutil -convert xml1 Info.plist` for web splatting?)
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2024-02-15T15:13:59 < karlp> ok. so I never get token done interrupts...
2024-02-15T15:14:14 < karlp> but that's probably also a symptom, not the cause...
2024-02-15T15:14:21 < karlp> damnit, keep finding symptoms.
2024-02-15T15:18:23 < ventYl> feel like Dr. House yet?
2024-02-15T15:21:15 < zyp> karlp, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/aJu21
2024-02-15T15:22:46 < jpa-> 49 million lines? what did karlp have in the repo?
2024-02-15T15:23:06 < ventYl> grandma's used underwear, I guess
2024-02-15T15:29:23 < karlp> jpa-: deleting all the "not me" examples and device code from the nxp mcux repository
2024-02-15T15:29:42 < karlp> they must be handling lots of it with gneeraiton, but vschode does _not_ like trying to parse the tree.
2024-02-15T15:29:56 < karlp> zyp: thanks!
2024-02-15T15:35:11 < karlp> was hoping for more than just macs, "windows" and "vmware" for the device types, but no biggie.
2024-02-15T15:38:18 < jpa-> yeah, vscode defaulting to /** parsing filter sometimes catches way too much stuff
2024-02-15T15:41:06 < ventYl> it gets confused by ~80k lines of code large project from time to time
2024-02-15T15:49:05 < qyx> til renode, but that's about all
2024-02-15T15:57:31 < karlp> ventYl: no, not feeling like house.  not enough hot nurses, no drugs, and it's been (well over) an hour and I don't have a stunning solution...
2024-02-15T16:04:54 < karlp> hrm, stuck with TOKENBUSY....
2024-02-15T16:05:05 < karlp> no shit.  send the damn thing...
2024-02-15T16:07:08 < ventYl> i have found new grossest thing I've ever been doing: debugging windows kernel drivers
2024-02-15T16:10:39 < karlp> yasssss!  https://community.nxp.com/t5/Kinetis-Microcontrollers/MK20DN512ZVMC10-USB-Host-enumeration-problem/td-p/158019
2024-02-15T16:10:51 < karlp> MPU turned on by default, prevents USB periph from accessing the data!
2024-02-15T16:13:13 < karlp> still bugs, but that's a later problem.
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2024-02-15T16:18:21 < ventYl> does clang-format have any built-in style which is very strict on formatting? I have two random versions of the same code ~three years apart and I need to fix the formatting to be able to compare them
2024-02-15T16:18:36 < ventYl> "Google" style leaves some stuff as it was
2024-02-15T16:18:52 < jbo> hallo
2024-02-15T17:24:42 < Steffanx> Hallo jbo 
2024-02-15T17:25:20 < Steffanx> Wie geht es dir?
2024-02-15T17:39:37 < karlp> goddamn, saved everything, committed, now gdb won't load flash, just hangs all the time. even aftera  restart.
2024-02-15T17:39:42 < karlp> give me a fucking break.
2024-02-15T17:40:54 < karlp> I feel like this is a sysstem update regression gone wrong...
2024-02-15T18:30:04 < karlp> so, power off and unplug everything and walk around the building for 10 minutes and it all works....
2024-02-15T18:30:13 < karlp> computers are aweesome.
2024-02-15T18:32:14 < jbo> Steffanx, doing fine, thanks!
2024-02-15T18:32:15 < jbo> how about you?
2024-02-15T18:33:11 < qyx> jbo: hows bq?
2024-02-15T18:33:27 < jbo> qyx, haven't touched it yet. will probably write some firmware for it during the weekend
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2024-02-15T18:45:10 < karlp> it's odne it again
2024-02-15T18:45:12 < karlp> ffs.
2024-02-15T18:45:20 < karlp> the fuck
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2024-02-15T19:16:54 < aandrew> renode is interesting yes. it has real potential, including writing peripherals in python or even HDL. the downside is that it's largely C# which just boggles the mind
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2024-02-15T19:35:45 < jpa-> what is mind-boggling about C#?
2024-02-15T19:48:18 < qyx> related, anyone tried nanoclr?
2024-02-15T19:48:27 < qyx> in the non-bare metal mode?
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2024-02-15T21:24:35 < jpa-> hmm, looks like for 1206 50V caps, a 4.7µF capacitor has more capacitance at 40 VDC than 10µF capacitor (1.2 µF vs. 0.7 µF remaining)
2024-02-15T21:26:41 < qyx> my limit for 50V 1206 is 1u or 2u2
2024-02-15T21:26:49 < qyx> ne er ever used more than that
2024-02-15T21:29:31 < qyx> if not size constrained, I would use a poscap + 1u mlcc for that voltage
2024-02-15T21:33:22 < jpa-> samsung 2.2µF has 1.0 µF remaining at 40 VDC and 1.0µF has 0.6 µF
2024-02-15T21:34:05 < jpa-> and yeah, i have a tantalum-polymer cap in parallel
2024-02-15T21:38:25 < qyx> x7r samsungs?
2024-02-15T21:38:55 < jpa-> yeah
2024-02-15T21:39:14 < jpa-> https://product.samsungsem.com/mlcc/CL31B475KBHNFN.do  and friends
2024-02-15T21:45:30 < qyx> yeah I am using CL31 too
2024-02-15T21:46:03 < qyx> isn't tantalum pretty much at their max at 40 VDC?
2024-02-15T21:46:21 < qyx> (i don't like them because explosive)
2024-02-15T21:48:15 < jpa-> heh actually yeah, the project where i have tantalum is 24 VDC, and the 40 VDC stuff has aluminum-polymer
2024-02-15T21:49:43 < jpa-> too many project ideas that i decided to do just now..
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2024-02-15T21:51:49 < qyx> same here, if I counted them I would not have enough fingers
2024-02-15T21:52:06 < qyx> but one hand binary would do
2024-02-15T21:58:01 < jpa-> i don't need fingers for counting
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2024-02-15T22:42:03 < octorian> karlp, I think my main gripe with Renode right now is that the docs seem a bit... lacking.  Or more like there's very little in terms of mention on the "connecting devices to peripherals" part of the setup process, or even on creating your own peripheral modules.  Makes me think I really need to find an example project somewhere that uses it to do a "whole system", preferably including parts that aren't included with the base Renode 
2024-02-15T22:42:03 < octorian> distribution.
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2024-02-15T23:23:15 < karlp> well, you get into "what do I want to simulate" pretty quick.  but anyway.
2024-02-15T23:23:55 < karlp> looking at some flights for later this year to maybe visit a friend.  getting offered such gems as "23 hour layover"
2024-02-15T23:24:21 < karlp> and also... my favourite, Keflavik -> Geneva, _via_ Dulles and Newark....
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2024-02-15T23:27:27 < karlp> 1 day 6 hour layover...
2024-02-15T23:27:32 < karlp> who thinks these are viable options?
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2024-02-16T02:14:47 < qyx> karlp: why don't you sprinkle your lava with water like they do in paw patrol?
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2024-02-16T11:22:14 < karlp> well, they did that in vestmananeyjar in the 70s, and it worked, but it's not always an option, 
2024-02-16T11:22:25 < karlp> also, that was trying to save houses.
2024-02-16T11:22:37 < karlp> did you see though, they just paved a fucking road over the top of it while it was hot.
2024-02-16T11:23:01 < karlp> I'm actually going out to blue lagoon for a spa day and massage with the wife tomorrow.
2024-02-16T11:23:10 < karlp> we  have to drive the long way around, through grindavik to get there :)
2024-02-16T11:23:24 < karlp> probably erupts again in another 10 days or so, should be safe tomorrow... ;)
2024-02-16T11:23:38 < karlp> also, paw patrol is just copaganda, so fuck whatever they do.
2024-02-16T11:24:54 < qyx> haha
2024-02-16T11:27:00 < qyx> I am expecting some photos
2024-02-16T11:27:43 < qyx> nope I haven't seen the new road yet
2024-02-16T11:29:37 < karlp> won't be anything interesting to see you haven't already seen.
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2024-02-16T11:45:09 < karlp> https://www.facebook.com/reel/2357969031260891
2024-02-16T11:47:03 < karlp> small video at the bottom of this too: https://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2024/02/11/rykur_upp_ur_nylogdum_grindavikurvegi/
2024-02-16T11:48:22 < ventYl> yield to lava
2024-02-16T11:52:29 < karlp> fucking daplink is busted again.
2024-02-16T11:52:36 < karlp> I wonder what the fuck it's problem is.
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2024-02-16T12:29:59 < karlp> zyp: what do you think is better, lowercase the MCU, or do case insensitive rgexps? https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/3c70037303c784e1af947bbb905ad88ab23c160a#diff-6f32a160c7c3df6fc6428da72c2e622e7bc0ea3fe3a28c47be5ac41bfa8d9730R5 ?
2024-02-16T12:30:13 < karlp> I'm leaning towards lowercasing the mcu passed in?
2024-02-16T12:30:40 < karlp> tha means users callign selectMCU can be sloppy, but the yaml files all _must_ be lowercase (as they are now)
2024-02-16T12:51:07 < ventYl> fucking USB hub died
2024-02-16T12:51:20 < ventYl> fucking crap hardware
2024-02-16T12:55:21 < machinehum> Immagine buying autism for 6bn
2024-02-16T12:55:38 < machinehum> imagine
2024-02-16T13:03:13 < Steffanx> Chf, cad, usd, eur?
2024-02-16T13:09:41 < karlp> doesn't matter.
2024-02-16T13:19:09 < Steffanx> I've no idea what machinehum is referring to, so no idea.
2024-02-16T13:22:00 < machinehum> https://www.reuters.com/technology/japanese-chipmaker-renesas-buy-australian-software-firm-altium-59-bln-2024-02-14/
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2024-02-16T13:46:22 < karlp> that autoslug really kills it by removing the decimal point :)
2024-02-16T13:46:31 < karlp> even though it's perfectly valid in a url...
2024-02-16T13:49:30 < Steffanx> Oh yeah that..
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2024-02-16T16:04:32 < karlp> oooh boi, laks and freescale cmsis headers don't like being included at the same time...
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2024-02-16T17:14:03 < zyp> karlp, assume lowercase is what I've been doing
2024-02-16T17:22:57 < karlp> I just copied and pasted a part number into my script and it failed because it was upeprcase :)
2024-02-16T17:23:03 < karlp> was hoping to make laks just "fix that for me"
2024-02-16T17:23:21 < karlp> the errors you get when it explodes inside select mcu are less than clear, that's all.
2024-02-16T17:34:58 < zyp> so there's two ways to fix that, either make it coerce everything into lowercase, or error if you give it uppercase
2024-02-16T17:35:02 < zyp> not sure which I prefer
2024-02-16T17:46:40 < jpa-> coerce into upper case and crash without error message
2024-02-16T17:48:07 < zyp> :)
2024-02-16T18:10:24 < karlp> well, I proposed either a) make the regexp case insensitive, or force lowecase the user supplied mcu.
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2024-02-16T18:22:01 < ventYl> Micorosft: If you are writing new driver, consider using KMDF rather than WDM.
2024-02-16T18:22:16 < ventYl> also Microsoft driver example: #include <wdm.h>
2024-02-16T18:28:25 < karlp> ok, it compiles, blinkand stdio via rtt, freertos, laks on kinetis.  and the tinyusb code compiles, so now I just have to port the clock setup code, and I should "just like that" have laks+tinyusb on kinetis....
2024-02-16T18:28:34 < karlp> ventYl:lol.
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2024-02-17T02:12:49 < qyx> nah, I am again, another big pcb tested
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2024-02-17T02:13:04 < qyx> s/I am/1 AM
2024-02-17T02:25:37 < nomorekaki> yes hello
2024-02-17T02:25:45 < nomorekaki> late hello
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2024-02-17T02:56:26 < qyx> yes hello late
2024-02-17T03:02:27 < nomorekaki> napping got out of control
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2024-02-17T11:16:22 < Steffanx> Are you ever in control nomorekaki ?
2024-02-17T11:23:40 < qyx> plowing snow makes him feel he controls the global cooling
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2024-02-17T17:34:29 < jbo> guten morgen
2024-02-17T17:39:20 < qyx> na ja
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2024-02-17T18:38:03 < Steffanx> Gutentag meinherr jbo 
2024-02-17T18:43:27 -!- LFSveteran [~LFSvetera@keymaker.msrv.nl] has joined ##stm32
2024-02-17T18:59:09 < jbo> :3
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2024-02-17T20:44:36 < nomorekaki> qyx: indeed long day plowing snow
2024-02-17T20:45:11 < Steffanx> Why would you? Tomorrow there will be new snow, nomorekaki 
2024-02-17T20:46:10 < nomorekaki> not really
2024-02-17T20:46:22 < nomorekaki> only snow I left for tommorow
2024-02-17T20:50:10 < Steffanx> awh winter is leaving?
2024-02-17T20:51:35 < nomorekaki> no
2024-02-17T20:54:57 < Steffanx> it's already double digits here..
2024-02-17T20:56:09 < nomorekaki> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IGnE1oPzDvoDTJnH5aSIQUQkBhRj06Cz/view?usp=sharing driveway was gone during the night snow storm
2024-02-17T20:57:07 < nomorekaki> wind+snow fills all the recesses like roads
2024-02-17T20:59:26 < nomorekaki> usually it just does snow drifts but this time the whole thing
2024-02-17T21:03:06 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: do you believe me? there was a road yesterday!
2024-02-17T21:03:39 < Steffanx> there isnt a road today...
2024-02-17T21:03:50 < nomorekaki> there is
2024-02-17T21:03:54 < nomorekaki> was
2024-02-17T21:04:07 < nomorekaki> at least a hour ago
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2024-02-17T21:13:32 < zen_desu> hey i got some stm32 clones and im not sure how i can write the bootloader 
2024-02-17T21:13:42 < zen_desu> I tried using STM32_Programmer_CLI and it says it writes stuff but then when i read the memory it is not the same https://bpa.st/raw/F2JA   
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2024-02-17T21:17:37 < zyp> you're reading the wrong address, flash is at 0x8000000
2024-02-17T21:17:55 < zen_desu> oh so i should write there too?
2024-02-17T21:18:23 < zyp> but wait, you said «write the bootloader»
2024-02-17T21:18:26 < zen_desu> ./STM32_Programmer_CLI -c port=swd -w ~/tmp/stm32_binaries/F103/high_density/hid_generic_pc13.bin 0x80000000
2024-02-17T21:18:29 < zen_desu> yeah
2024-02-17T21:18:44 < zen_desu> i wrote to 0 before 
2024-02-17T21:18:46 < zyp> as in, the bootloader itself, not write via the bootloader?
2024-02-17T21:18:49 < zen_desu> yes
2024-02-17T21:19:02 < zen_desu> this is a dumb clone and afaik the stuff in memory is random data
2024-02-17T21:19:13 < zen_desu> i have a few i guess i could compare memory dumps 
2024-02-17T21:19:29 < zyp> okay, I'm not familiar with the clones (and you haven't specified which you've got either), but on genuine stm32 the bootloader area is not writable
2024-02-17T21:19:31 < zen_desu> ./STM32_Programmer_CLI -c port=swd -r32 0 1000
2024-02-17T21:19:56 < zen_desu> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08THXZ6XK?psc=1
2024-02-17T21:20:04 < zen_desu> if you read the reviews they mention having to write that 
2024-02-17T21:20:28 < zen_desu> i get a flashing green light on pwoer on in normla mode and then solid red in programming mode, with the boot swithc moved
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2024-02-17T21:28:17 < zyp> by the way, even the genuine stm32f103 is a pretty shit chip, have you considered just getting someting more decent instead of fiddling around with bullshit issues?
2024-02-17T21:32:04 < qyx> zen_desu: watch yout zeroes
2024-02-17T21:32:07 < qyx> *your
2024-02-17T21:32:13 < qyx> your command is wrong
2024-02-17T21:33:13 < zyp> ah, yeah, I could have written 0x08000000
2024-02-17T21:33:56 < qyx> also, what's the point of buying a chink clone of a chip from a late stone age for $12.88?
2024-02-17T21:34:23 < zyp> well, there's five of them
2024-02-17T21:34:36 < zyp> but yeah
2024-02-17T21:35:40 < qyx> nah, time to do some ~~work~~
2024-02-17T21:35:43 < qyx> I hate doing work
2024-02-17T21:35:58 < qyx> esp when it is saturday evening
2024-02-17T21:45:49 < Mangy_Dog> talking od esp :p Esp32 -p4.... who here has been getting the sodding dev kits?
2024-02-17T21:48:41 < zen_desu> i have a bunch of picos and esp8266s, i kinda like having a pile of mcus
2024-02-17T21:48:50 < zen_desu> that way i can be a bit reckless and just toss in a new one 
2024-02-17T21:49:08 < zen_desu> but yeah i mostly got these becasue 5/$12, that's a solid price with 2 day shipping 
2024-02-17T21:49:26 < zen_desu> but anyways the boards seem to work but don't have the firmware i need, i'd like to learn how to get them going
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2024-02-17T22:58:24 < zyp> hmm, thinking about doing a little ip/tcp/mqtt stack, wondering whether I should do ipv4 or ipv6
2024-02-17T23:12:19 < zen_desu> ipv6 if you can :D
2024-02-17T23:14:07 < zyp> well yeah, for the time being the projects I'd use it for would just use it locally anyway
2024-02-17T23:14:40 < zyp> and I figure ipv6 link local is available anywhere even if proper ipv6 is not
2024-02-17T23:16:25 < zen_desu> yeah it just makes it a bit easier to have proper internet connectivity if you base it on ipv6
2024-02-17T23:17:24 < zyp> at the moment I don't have anything planned that requires a globally routable address
2024-02-17T23:19:14 < zen_desu> im just into pushing ipv6 and using it when possible 
2024-02-17T23:19:23 < zen_desu> i think a large reason why it isn't adopted is becasue it isn't adopted 
2024-02-17T23:19:49 < zen_desu> and it's kinda hard to make ipv6 worse than ipv6, you can even nat it if you hate yourself but you don't need to
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2024-02-17T23:22:35 < zyp> IMO you can't really say it's not adopted either
2024-02-17T23:23:32 < zyp> I've had ipv6 at home for over a decade, maybe two if you count tunnelbrokers
2024-02-17T23:23:38 < zen_desu> eh you can't reasonably expect something to have ipv6 unless it says it does
2024-02-17T23:23:59 < zen_desu> i moved recently and chose the location based on where i could get solid internet and prefix delegation 
2024-02-17T23:24:07 < zen_desu> i got ipv6 for the first time 2 years ago
2024-02-17T23:24:14 < zen_desu> but i got 1 /64
2024-02-17T23:24:29 < zen_desu> in large cities in texas fwiw
2024-02-17T23:27:04 < qyx> zen_desu: ipv6 pls
2024-02-17T23:27:07 < qyx> ry
2024-02-17T23:27:11 < qyx> zyp: ipv6 pls
2024-02-17T23:27:22 < qyx> and udp too
2024-02-17T23:27:27 < zyp> I'm getting a /56
2024-02-17T23:27:45 < qyx> c++? gonna try modules,
2024-02-17T23:27:52 < zyp> currently only delegating a single /64 from it though
2024-02-17T23:28:17 < zyp> qyx, yeah, it'd be built on laks and use coroutines
2024-02-17T23:28:25 < qyx> argh coroutines
2024-02-17T23:29:44 < zyp> speaking of internet, my ISP put me behind CGNAT the other day
2024-02-17T23:30:04 < zyp> when I complained, they put me back
2024-02-17T23:30:38 < qyx> do you thing they have more than one residential customer complaining?
2024-02-17T23:32:09 < zyp> exactly, I figure they've got enough public IPs for the people who want them
2024-02-17T23:32:49 < zyp> put everybody behind CGNAT, see who complains, give them back public IPs, everybody gets happe
2024-02-17T23:32:52 < zyp> happy
2024-02-17T23:34:37 < zyp> does mdns work with link-local addrs?
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2024-02-17T23:35:23 < qyx> I hope yes but I plan ULA for my use case
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2024-02-17T23:35:25 < zyp> e.g. if I've got a device with just a link-local addr, can I make it reachable by name without any config on other devices on the network?
2024-02-17T23:35:42 < qyx> ula+slaac
2024-02-17T23:35:55 < zyp> on a dedicated link?
2024-02-17T23:36:02 < qyx> no, locally
2024-02-17T23:36:30 < qyx> openwrt does that by default so who cares
2024-02-17T23:36:33 < zyp> ula advertised by a router then?
2024-02-17T23:36:37 < qyx> yeah
2024-02-17T23:36:58 < qyx> it generates one randomly as that RFC says and advertises
2024-02-17T23:37:10 < zyp> yeah, that'd work the same as a regular addr
2024-02-17T23:37:45 < qyx> oh and multi-ip support is mandatory in the ipv6 stack
2024-02-17T23:38:23 < qyx> idk if rfc says so but I would expect it
2024-02-17T23:39:44 < zyp> that could certainly be skipped to save resources if you're doing something that only needs link-local
2024-02-17T23:55:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Just a quick sanity check. A SOT-23 P-MOS used as reverse polarity protection should be able to handle 3-5A current. If it has ~23mOhm RDS_on, then for 5A it should dissipate 0.0575W and SOT-23 has ~100C/W so it will get ~5C above ambient for 5A current
2024-02-17T23:56:29 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Also, is there a good guide for selecting a PTC fuse. I constantly get confused with the trip current, time to trip and hold current and mess up my selection. Then later I have to bump the fuse up/down on the prototype :)
2024-02-17T23:57:06 < zyp> ColdKeybo[a]rd, you're off by a factor 10, I get 0.575W and hence 50C
2024-02-17T23:58:58 < qyx> same here, 50°C above ambient
2024-02-17T23:59:11 < qyx> ie. it will most probably die
2024-02-17T23:59:16 < qyx> i would say certainly
2024-02-17T23:59:35 < zyp> why?
2024-02-17T23:59:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Wait, where did I mess up?
--- Day changed su helmi 18 2024
2024-02-18T00:00:01 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I=5, and R=0.0023
2024-02-18T00:00:07 < qyx> because it won't handle turn on
2024-02-18T00:00:08 < zyp> 0.023
2024-02-18T00:00:18 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So P should be 5^2*0.0023 ?
2024-02-18T00:00:24 < zyp> you said 23mOhm, not 2.3mOhm
2024-02-18T00:00:24 < qyx> 0.023
2024-02-18T00:00:57 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ah yes, that explains it :)
2024-02-18T00:01:09 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Thanks. Good thing I checked :)
2024-02-18T00:01:18 < qyx> under no circumstances I would use a sot23 for 5A
2024-02-18T00:01:26 < qyx> not even a n-mos with much lower Rdson
2024-02-18T00:01:29 < zyp> anyway, I assume the 100C/W figure is Rth_JA?
2024-02-18T00:01:38 < qyx> I had some incidents with them
2024-02-18T00:01:46 < zyp> isn't TJ_max like 125-150C?
2024-02-18T00:02:25 < zyp> subtract 60C for good measure and you're still at 65-90C ambient max
2024-02-18T00:02:28 < qyx> also sot23 has about >300 °C/W
2024-02-18T00:02:30 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> True, typical is 100, maximum is 130
2024-02-18T00:02:39 < qyx> which part is that exactly?
2024-02-18T00:03:07 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I threw 5A but in reallity I think I could do with 2.5 or 3A
2024-02-18T00:03:14 < zyp> anyway, I agree with qyx, 5A for sot-23 sounds like a lot
2024-02-18T00:03:15 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> But still, I might need a beefier package
2024-02-18T00:03:47 < qyx> which one is that?
2024-02-18T00:04:27 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> https://www.vishay.com/docs/62827/si2347ds.pdf
2024-02-18T00:05:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Maybe SOT23-6 would be better for ~3A -> https://www.panjit.com.tw/upload/datasheet/PJS6403.pdf
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2024-02-18T00:06:06 < qyx> I don't see 23 mohm
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2024-02-18T00:06:37 < qyx> also those figures are for 25x25 mm FR4 which usually means you have to fill it with copper
2024-02-18T00:06:43 < qyx> and not use minimum pads
2024-02-18T00:07:08 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Maybe I was looking at a different one. It should be 42mOhm
2024-02-18T00:08:13 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ok, but for PTC fuse I'm constantly confused
2024-02-18T00:08:23 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I hold is 3A and I Trip is 5A
2024-02-18T00:08:29 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> But time to trip is 20sec
2024-02-18T00:08:31 < qyx> if you are not size limited, LFPAK56 is a good package
2024-02-18T00:08:40 < qyx> or powerso8 or similar, they are all somewhat compatible
2024-02-18T00:08:59 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> <qyx> if you are not size limited, LFPAK56 is a good package
2024-02-18T00:08:59 < qyx> if you are size limited, lfpak33 is a common one
2024-02-18T00:09:17 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I like these! I used the N-MOS in this package for my dimmer
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2024-02-18T00:11:22 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> For the PTC fuse, what current should I use for calculating how long it's going to take to trip?
2024-02-18T00:11:43 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> For example hold current is 3A and trip current is 5A. Time to trip is 20sec
2024-02-18T00:11:51 < qyx> there is a table for time to trip wrt. I trip
2024-02-18T00:12:04 < qyx> and graphs, because it also depends on the Ta
2024-02-18T00:12:21 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Right, but is there a rule of thumb to estimate what is going to be a trip current?
2024-02-18T00:12:43 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> For example if one component fails or there is a short on a connector or something like that
2024-02-18T00:12:56 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I'm always confused by that part
2024-02-18T00:13:10 < qyx> idk i don't have a rule for ptcs, I always check datasheets when I use them
2024-02-18T00:13:38 < qyx> if you need a precise overcurrent, use an e-fuse
2024-02-18T00:13:45 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> No I meant on your board. How do you know what is going to be the trip current?
2024-02-18T00:14:04 < qyx> there are combined devices with precise overcurrent + reverse polarity protection
2024-02-18T00:14:54 < qyx> if I am doing a circuit for 5 A, connectors are usually rated at least 5 A, fuse hold current is 5 A max
2024-02-18T00:14:56 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> For example if you have a connector where user can plug something in. If they plug things the wrong way and short the connector, what is the current?
2024-02-18T00:15:11 < qyx> under those conditions the PTC will be the first to trip
2024-02-18T00:15:18 < qyx> not the connector or the cable
2024-02-18T00:15:35 < qyx> because 1. ptc/fuse is made to burn, connector is made to survive
2024-02-18T00:15:42 < qyx> 2. connector/cable has bigger thermal mass
2024-02-18T00:15:59 < qyx> so ptc or fuse wire will definitely heat up much faster
2024-02-18T00:16:58 < qyx> for power output I don't use ptc, they will not protect anything unless the source is strong enough
2024-02-18T00:17:16 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Got it. I'm using PTC to protect the entire board but I think I'm good with going for 3A fuse and then making sure that everything that can get shorted can survive 3A or more
2024-02-18T00:17:39 < qyx> of course, that's the general rule
2024-02-18T00:18:05 < qyx> components after the fuse must be capable of sustaining higher current than the fuse
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2024-02-18T00:43:43 < zen_desu> ok i was able to get stm32 cube programmer running and flashed something to this board
2024-02-18T00:43:49 < zen_desu> im not sure if it's working?
2024-02-18T00:44:06 < zen_desu> https://github.com/Serasidis/STM32_HID_Bootloader/releases
2024-02-18T00:44:08 < zen_desu> i flashed this
2024-02-18T00:44:30 < zen_desu> the green light no longer blinks wehn attached but it doesn't appera as a usb device eitehr
2024-02-18T00:46:18 < qyx> you can't flash anything you like to whatever board/mcu you like
2024-02-18T00:46:47 < qyx> your board must be supported, there are multiple things which must be exact right in order to run anything
2024-02-18T00:46:53 < qyx> also your mcu
2024-02-18T00:46:56 < zen_desu> i think this board is supported?
2024-02-18T00:47:03 < qyx> idk, is it?
2024-02-18T00:47:11 < zen_desu> yes it's a STM32F103C8T6
2024-02-18T00:47:20 < qyx> I am saying board.
2024-02-18T00:47:27 < qyx> not mcu
2024-02-18T00:47:39 < zen_desu> why would the board not support it, it's a "blue pill" clone
2024-02-18T00:47:41 < qyx> and if somebody says STM32F103C8T6, they mean the genuine one
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2024-02-18T00:49:38 < qyx> uhm reading the readme
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2024-02-18T00:50:21 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> zen_desu Blue Pill often come with wrong resistors on D+/D-, double check that
2024-02-18T00:52:47 < zen_desu> yeah r10 is a 10k
2024-02-18T00:52:54 < zen_desu> i guess i should replace that witha  1.5k?
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2024-02-18T01:01:27 < zen_desu> i don't have surface mount resistors, i just ripped the pads off 2 devices trying to replace that resistor
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2024-02-18T01:16:40 < zyp> don't bother removing the 10k, just put 1.8k or so in parallel and you'll get 1.5k
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2024-02-18T01:21:39 < zen_desu> i don
2024-02-18T01:21:44 < zen_desu> t have surface mount ones
2024-02-18T01:21:49 < zen_desu> i think the larger ones are just gonna rek the pads
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2024-02-18T02:11:25 < qyx> the hell, IAR needs a *patch* to build stm32wba example?
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2024-02-18T03:27:03 < scrts> how are those stm32wb's? Heard some tough experience with them
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2024-02-18T03:33:03 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I remember a couple of years ago FAEs and other reps were talking c*ap about ESP. Then a year or so later they started reaching out to me to ask would I use them in my products...
2024-02-18T03:33:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Basically if they don't represent it, they talk c*ap about it. And now that they represent ESP, all of a suden it's an amazing chip :)
2024-02-18T03:34:28 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I haven't used STM32W yet... How do they compare to ESP and nRF?
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2024-02-18T08:30:10 < jpa-> ColdKeybo[a]rd: on the other hand, ESP8266 was kind of crap
2024-02-18T08:30:20 < jpa-> ESP32 variants are much better
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2024-02-18T12:29:42 < machinehum> https://github.com/Wren6991/PicoDVI
2024-02-18T12:29:44 < machinehum> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
2024-02-18T12:30:35 < machinehum> "Those who understand the TMDS physical layer are probably screaming, but I was fine, because I did not read the electrical section of the spec until after I got this board working. Then I screamed. Before the boards arrived I did some debugging, with these two strategies:"
2024-02-18T12:31:00 < machinehum> And then they made a product based on it https://blog.flipper.net/introducing-video-game-module-powered-by-raspberry-pi/
2024-02-18T12:55:21 < jpa-> well, a bit further down the github page they explain the improvements they made after reading the spec :)
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2024-02-18T13:38:42 < ventYl> machinehum: I wanted to bigbang DVI on AVR, to make shittier graphics card than ben eater's discreet IC one
2024-02-18T13:39:21 < ventYl> yet even the fastest AVR is way too slow to do that
2024-02-18T13:52:06 < ventYl> nah, that is VGA
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2024-02-18T14:58:51 < machinehum> ventYl: heh
2024-02-18T15:09:56 < ventYl> machinehum: it would probably be doable with external clock source and QSPI, but there would be zero chance to actually modify the content of video RAM
2024-02-18T15:10:23 < machinehum> I know almost nothing about hdmi
2024-02-18T15:10:36 < machinehum> Did they somehow put it in a "DVI" mode or something
2024-02-18T15:10:53 < machinehum> A lower speed thing that workes over hdmi cables
2024-02-18T15:12:43 < machinehum> My boards look alright https://i.imgur.com/q4hjpho.png
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2024-02-18T15:25:47 < ventYl> as I understand it, HDMI and DVI have the same signalling, at least with earlier versions
2024-02-18T15:26:13 < machinehum> Hmm
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2024-02-18T15:47:09 < Steffanx> What are we looking at mr machinehum ?
2024-02-18T15:49:16 < machinehum> It's a carrier board for this guy https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/lichee/RV/RV.html
2024-02-18T15:49:25 < machinehum> riscv SoM
2024-02-18T15:50:36 < Steffanx> "  (You can weld other WiFi modules but need debug by yourself)"  :D
2024-02-18T15:52:17 < machinehum> wut
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2024-02-18T16:17:38 < Steffanx> Just something they state on that wiki. 
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2024-02-18T16:22:07 < Steffanx> Any interesting plans with the board machinehum ?
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2024-02-18T16:53:50 < Steffanx> Fucking windows. From one day on another volume control stopped working. The "overlay" appears and changes, but nothing happens. When i press mute the icon changes to mute, but.. nothing happens. 
2024-02-18T16:53:56 < Steffanx> </rant>
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2024-02-18T17:03:58 < machinehum> Steffanx: I'm going to sell them
2024-02-18T17:04:07 < machinehum> They plug into the top of flippers
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2024-02-18T17:12:58 < Steffanx> To add some lunixness to the flipper or .. whats the goal?
2024-02-18T17:14:10 < machinehum> Flipper doesn't have wifi, so people use these little esp32 boards
2024-02-18T17:14:26 < machinehum> Which are ... limited 
2024-02-18T17:14:58 < machinehum> So I'm making a full Linux board, might end up using the t113-s3, D1 or D1s
2024-02-18T17:15:05 < machinehum> Two wifi radios, ethernet
2024-02-18T17:18:57 < machinehum> I ended up meeting up with the linux-sunxi people at Fosdem actually
2024-02-18T17:21:57 < machinehum> dnsmasq doesn't shutup even if you redirect all the output
2024-02-18T17:22:00 < machinehum> dnsmasq -C /etc/dnsmasq.conf -d 2>&1 >> $LOG_F & 
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2024-02-18T19:02:51 < qyx> machinehum: what's the point of buying a $22 chink allwinner risc SoM with quastionable support?
2024-02-18T19:03:02 < qyx> it has no "wow" imho
2024-02-18T19:04:42 < machinehum> qyx: What you want support for?
2024-02-18T19:04:45 < machinehum> Boots fine
2024-02-18T19:04:53 < machinehum> No issues so far
2024-02-18T19:05:02 < qyx> with mainline linux?
2024-02-18T19:05:05 < machinehum> Yes
2024-02-18T19:05:14 < machinehum> I've only been using mainline
2024-02-18T19:05:23 < machinehum> Uboot is a fork, but I think that's been upstreamed
2024-02-18T19:05:40 < qyx> idk
2024-02-18T19:05:52 < machinehum> ?
2024-02-18T19:05:56 < qyx> I am usually triggered mainly by calling something "low power" and using DDR3 at the same time
2024-02-18T19:06:13 < qyx> I have been considering the board in the past and I went with nxp
2024-02-18T19:06:40 < machinehum> I don't care/know anything about the power characteristics of this board
2024-02-18T19:07:09 < machinehum> Also I won't be using the module for long, next spin of the board will be pulling the SoC right down
2024-02-18T19:07:14 < machinehum> Putting*
2024-02-18T19:07:43 < machinehum> Ether the D1, D1s, t113-s3 or t114-s4 depending on how things go with the module
2024-02-18T19:41:31 < Steffanx> time for music classics nomorekaki  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-u_aKzVbT8
2024-02-18T19:48:13 < nomorekaki> the invention of bleep tune
2024-02-18T20:07:49 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htuL6mvlTgk that one is older, nomorekaki 
2024-02-18T20:08:25 < nomorekaki> interestings
2024-02-18T20:08:30 < nomorekaki> how many popcorns there is
2024-02-18T20:09:25 < Steffanx> many.
2024-02-18T20:10:05 < nomorekaki> anyways
2024-02-18T20:10:18 < nomorekaki> probs invented the bleep tune
2024-02-18T20:56:25 < Steffanx> probably
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2024-02-18T21:15:54 < PaulFertser> machinehum: I think you need to have 2>&1 after the > or >> , then it'll work.
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2024-02-18T22:10:00 < qyx> so the work week starts soon
2024-02-18T22:10:11 < qyx> time to plan some tasks
2024-02-18T22:17:51 < Steffanx> Like: breaking in garage boxes, protesting because of the government.. what else qyx?
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2024-02-18T23:09:07 < qyx> Steffanx: we have protests every single week now because of the stupid gov
2024-02-18T23:09:29 < qyx> next week the farmers are protesting too for whatever reasons
2024-02-18T23:09:35 < qyx> they always protest
--- Day changed ma helmi 19 2024
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2024-02-19T05:10:23 < fenugrec> is there a standard name or designation for laptop-style DC barrel jacks ? (common 19V type with 3 contacts - inner and outer sleeve + pin)
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2024-02-19T05:35:35 < fenugrec> i.e. looking for the inline connector on the left here https://i.stack.imgur.com/CZR6e.jpg
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2024-02-19T08:10:17 < nuxil> coaxial DC plug?
2024-02-19T08:10:38 < jpa-> or triaxial.. but doesn't give much google results
2024-02-19T08:11:24 < jpa-> wikipedia calls it coaxial
2024-02-19T08:11:43 < nuxil> thats what i call them aswell 😛
2024-02-19T08:12:14 < nuxil> never heard the term triaxial tho.
2024-02-19T08:13:29 < nuxil> lets see what chatgpt will call it.
2024-02-19T08:13:43 < nuxil> Coaxial power connector 
2024-02-19T08:13:47 < nuxil> heh ok.
2024-02-19T08:13:50 < jpa-> i wouldn't be surprised if they are so manufacturer-specific that they are not commonly sold
2024-02-19T08:14:02 < nuxil> yea
2024-02-19T08:14:09 < jpa-> digikey seems to have just those with a ring at the end
2024-02-19T08:16:04 < nuxil> some call them barrel plugs. but i alway called them coaxial. 
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2024-02-19T08:54:46 < Kerr> Anyone have experience getting the SDIO peripheral working? I'm pulling my hair out over here.  I'm using STM32f446RE Nucleo64, with an SD card breakout on an LCD module. I'm using STM32Cube, fatFS. The process of mounting the SD card fails, seemingly in the SD_PowerON() function
2024-02-19T08:56:30 < Kerr> After sending CMD55, it gets stuck in a waiting loop looking for the reply. I see on the Dat0 pin that the SD card does reply. Also, other SDMMC_Cmd... functions have returned successfully before that
2024-02-19T08:58:31 < nuxil> i have the same board. but never messed with the sdio.  but isnt the sd card on these modules just using spi? i have a old module that was on a 3d printer and it uses spi for communicate with the sdcard.
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2024-02-19T09:00:47 < Kerr> The SDIO interface is not just SPI, they are separate.
2024-02-19T09:01:00 < Kerr> The SDIO interface is up to 4 bits, but I have it in 1 bit mode for simplicity
2024-02-19T09:01:37 < Kerr> I had it working the other day, unreliably, in 1 bit mode. I followed the same tutorial to re-set it up like 5 times now and can't seem to get past that one part
2024-02-19T09:03:06 < Kerr> Unreliably = it sometimes got past the power on command, and sometimes did not. More often, not.
2024-02-19T09:03:14 < Kerr> Not it won't get past it at all
2024-02-19T09:04:49 < Kerr> *now
2024-02-19T09:05:10 < nuxil> 😞
2024-02-19T09:05:48 < jpa-> Kerr: CMD55 is just APP_CMD prefix, what is the actual command code?
2024-02-19T09:06:03 < jpa-> (presumably CMD41?)
2024-02-19T09:07:32 < Kerr> yes
2024-02-19T09:08:08 < Kerr> Line 2807 of stm32F4xx_hal_sd.c
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2024-02-19T09:08:25 < Kerr> It fails sending CMD55, then bails out
2024-02-19T09:08:32 < Kerr> never getting to send cmd41
2024-02-19T09:08:43 < jpa-> CMD55 shouldn't reply on D0, it should reply on CMD
2024-02-19T09:09:25 < Kerr> Hm. I do see data being sent on D0 with my scope. IDK how I would differentiate a reply on CMD
2024-02-19T09:09:51 < Kerr> I read somewhere online that cmd55 replies on D0, but the info may have been wrong
2024-02-19T09:09:54 < jpa-> SDIO decoder of sigrok can be useful, though it is somewhat buggy itself
2024-02-19T09:10:41 < Kerr> I only have the cheapo logic analyzer, not sure if it's fast enough or not.
2024-02-19T09:10:53 < Kerr> I guess the transaction does start out at a lower speed
2024-02-19T09:11:06 < jpa-> SD card init should happen at rather low speed, and you can set the divider for the main transfer lower too
2024-02-19T09:11:27 < Kerr> Yeah, looks like clk is 105khz 
2024-02-19T09:11:55 < Kerr> I'm just at a loss as to what I would change though, regardless of what is revealed
2024-02-19T09:13:12 < jpa-> actually it feels like CMD55 shouldn't even reply.. let me verify a few things
2024-02-19T09:14:08 < Kerr> I followed this tutorial, with the only modifications being setting up a pin for card detect pin since I dont have a board with an SD card port, so put it into 1 bit data bus mode, and set up a pin as GPIO input with pulldown for card detect https://youtu.be/I9KDN1o6924
2024-02-19T09:14:28 < Kerr> So... is HAL waiting for a reply that it should never get in the first place???
2024-02-19T09:14:52 < jpa-> ah, not, CMD55 replies only after SEND_IF_COND has been done
2024-02-19T09:15:27 < jpa-> do you switch the pulldown to pull-up after card has been detected, or is the card internal pull-up strong enough to hold it high?
2024-02-19T09:16:06 < Kerr> From what I read, card detect pin is ordinarily just shorted to gnd when a card is inserted?
2024-02-19T09:16:51 < Kerr> When I left it as pullup, then it says no card detected. Presumably this is a failing of my breakout board not actually having a mechanism to detect a card
2024-02-19T09:17:44 < Kerr> (If I read this pinout right, this is Chip Select when using a card in SPI mode, which is what the breakout board is meant for)
2024-02-19T09:18:50 < jpa-> ah, i thought you were using the card-internal data pin pull-up as card detection (that is an option also, but typically requires switching the pull mode after card has been detected)
2024-02-19T09:19:39 < Kerr> HAL looks for the pin to be low, to indicate a card present
2024-02-19T09:20:02 < Kerr> so... I have the pin set to pulldown, and not connected at all to the card
2024-02-19T09:20:47 < Kerr> I'm looking at this pinout: https://www.electroniccircuitsdesign.com/sites/default/files/img/sd-card-pinout.png 
2024-02-19T09:21:19 < Kerr> and seeing that it's CD/DAT3, so my belief is that I don't need DAT3 since I'm doing 1 bit bus mode
2024-02-19T09:22:26 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sdio_init/sdio_init8.png  http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sdio_init/sdio_init_table.png  here is what the relevant part looks to me
2024-02-19T09:22:34 < jpa-> i don't think data lines are used at all in this point
2024-02-19T09:23:04 < jpa-> for me ACMD51 is the first one to use data lines
2024-02-19T09:25:24 < Kerr> forgive me, but where do you see the data lines being used?
2024-02-19T09:25:24 < jpa-> what is the previous thing it does before CMD55 stops working?
2024-02-19T09:25:51 < Kerr> SDMMC_CmdOperCond(hsd->Instance)
2024-02-19T09:26:04 < Kerr> SDMMC_CmdGoIdleState(hsd->Instance)
2024-02-19T09:26:17 < Kerr> SDMMC_CmdAppCommand(hsd->Instance, 0)
2024-02-19T09:26:46 < Kerr> Is the order I believe. I'm going to ge my logic analyzer hooked up
2024-02-19T09:27:01 < Kerr> Have ot put the baby to bed, so I'll be back in a bit
2024-02-19T09:27:41 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sdio_init/sdio_ACMD51.png   for me data lines are used only much further in init process, after ACMD41 has completed the wait for card initialization
2024-02-19T09:42:16 < jpa-> i'll be away for a few hours
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2024-02-19T10:50:09 < srk> heh svd ethernet is a complete mess 
2024-02-19T10:50:24 < srk> split into 4 peripherals, with random rcc enable bits
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2024-02-19T11:55:10 < karlp> I keep trying to tell you that basing things on svd is just shit in, shit out... :)
2024-02-19T11:55:22 < karlp> you want the _intent_ of svd, not the letter of svd.
2024-02-19T12:10:26 < srk> well I mostly take register layout, mem addresses of instances, interrupts, rcc bits
2024-02-19T12:11:15 < srk> and massage everything
2024-02-19T12:13:26 < srk> maybe parsing LL would be easier, but I don't even know where to get these
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2024-02-19T13:59:22 < machinehum> https://youtu.be/CZGM__LlW_Q?si=KxLkEH5KQYMKhI83
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2024-02-19T15:07:29 < fenugrec> nuxil , jpa- , indeed I was able to match the dimensions on wikipedia's "coaxial power connector". Almost found what I'm looking for, https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/PJ-096H?qs=l7cgNqFNU1gbrrvW3wKBhQ%3D%3D\
2024-02-19T15:07:38 < fenugrec> oops no trailing '\' there
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2024-02-19T17:32:36 < qyx> so I have a dilemma, I have an "interface" to write a configuration value, eg. a uint32_t value
2024-02-19T17:33:13 < qyx> the interface is like a classic class with methods write, read, walk (to find siblings or children), etc.
2024-02-19T17:34:31 < qyx> now there are two approaches, make the interface bold and support not-so-interfacy things, like "if the struct contains a non-null pointer to a variable, you can use it to write the variable instead of function pointers/methods"
2024-02-19T17:35:20 < qyx> or "it is very common to chain values into arrays/trees, so the interface also contains a *next pointer you can use instead of calling walk method"
2024-02-19T17:35:43 < qyx> those things make the interface easier to implement but harder to use
2024-02-19T17:35:45 < qyx> on the other hand
2024-02-19T17:36:04 < qyx> the interface can be really think and implement only the bare minimum, eg. write, read, walk
2024-02-19T17:36:59 < qyx> and then make a library which could be used to ease implementing the interface and also provide some access functions, like "write_uint32" which checks the value type, converts it to void * and writes 4 bytes using the write method
2024-02-19T17:37:20 < qyx> the third option is to use c++...
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2024-02-19T17:56:31 < fenugrec> so like  a union{ void*; uint32; } ?
2024-02-19T17:57:22 < fenugrec> disregard, you lost me at "walk"
2024-02-19T18:00:27 < qyx> yeah but exposing a "public" union is not something I would do in a interface
2024-02-19T18:16:38 < jpa-> if you expect it to be performance-sensitive, use the pointers
2024-02-19T18:16:43 < jpa-> if not, use functions only
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2024-02-19T18:34:29 < zyp> I like option 3
2024-02-19T18:55:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Is there a reason why I can't find 2.54mm/2.5mm terminal on DigiKey or Mouser but you have a ton of them on LCSC, like this one -> https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Pluggable-System-Terminal-Block_DORABO-DB2EVC-2-54-2P-GN_C2927493.html
2024-02-19T18:55:58 < zyp> what do you mean? digikey have a bunch
2024-02-19T18:56:48 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Can you send me link? Maybe I'm filtering wrong or looking at a wrong category
2024-02-19T18:57:09 < zyp> sure, let me find it
2024-02-19T19:00:51 < zyp> e.g. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/1881480/308250
2024-02-19T19:01:24 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/terminal-blocks/headers-plugs-and-sockets/370?s=N4IgjCBcoBwJxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIcALAEwAMIhcA7NQGwgC6hADgC5QgAyrwBOASwB2AcxABfeUA
2024-02-19T19:05:24 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Ok, I fat fingered and selected "positions per level" instead of "number of positions"
2024-02-19T19:05:49 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I thought why are there no 2,3,4 pin terminals :)
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2024-02-19T21:44:41 < englishman> fenugrec: >que tu vinsses
2024-02-19T21:44:43 < englishman> wtf is this
2024-02-19T21:44:45 < englishman> i hate french
2024-02-19T21:44:51 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2024-02-19T21:45:11 < englishman> >que tu fusses venu
2024-02-19T21:46:12 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.173] has joined ##stm32
2024-02-19T21:47:03 < fenugrec> what are you even reading to find such formulations
2024-02-19T21:49:22 < englishman> ms office grammar check
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--- Day changed ti helmi 20 2024
2024-02-20T00:00:48 < qyx> ololol ST UM2806, is this plotly dash?
2024-02-20T00:01:39 < qyx> they are only saying it is python
2024-02-20T00:01:49 < qyx> such innovation
2024-02-20T00:30:03 < nuxil> what?
2024-02-20T00:32:45 < nuxil> hmm, its only for communication to the mcu. so nothing wrong with that.
2024-02-20T00:32:55 < nuxil> thought it was something awefull like micropython :Ø
2024-02-20T00:37:02 < qyx> it is superb compared to other cube sh.t
2024-02-20T00:42:03 < nuxil> im not a big fan of python. but i find its a nice tool to use if you want some code done fast for testing.
2024-02-20T00:42:05 -!- kow__ [~k\o\w@2607:fea8:1d00:89f0:94da:b40d:6766:f7f3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2024-02-20T00:42:48 < qyx> py is equally good for large projects
2024-02-20T00:42:49 < nuxil> i have used python a lot with mcu's. both stm and avr's. easy to create plots and stats. with ie,. matplotlib etc whatever is needed instead of spending time creating a c/c++ app. 
2024-02-20T00:45:12 < zyp> so why are you not a fan?
2024-02-20T00:47:39 < nuxil> because i am not. its a slow language. and you often need to resort to ctypes, numpy etc for stuff that need to run fast. also.. let me not get starded on indentations .. 😛
2024-02-20T00:48:08 < zyp> would you prefer to write code without indentations?
2024-02-20T00:49:10 < nuxil> i do sometimes. dont you ? 
2024-02-20T00:49:50 < zyp> not unless I'm writing a oneliner on irc or something
2024-02-20T00:50:29 < nuxil> im not saying its my norm. im just saying i do it sometimes.
2024-02-20T00:52:51 < zyp> have you ever had the pleasure of working on a codebase where the indentation is inconsistent with the scopes?
2024-02-20T00:53:52 -!- MGF_Fabio [~MGF_Fabio@2a01:e11:200d:8dd0:4e15:e9d2:5544:b0e7] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2024-02-20T00:57:05 < nuxil> yes. i have. it can happen easly. for example. you have personA set his editor to use 4 spaces for indentation. he gives you some code. you copy paste it into your own, and you have not the same settings for the indentation. 
2024-02-20T01:00:12 < nuxil> lets just leave it at. im not a fan of having indentation as a fundemental part of the syntax.
2024-02-20T01:00:48 < zyp> you're entitled to have your own opinion even if it's wrong :)
2024-02-20T01:01:07 < nuxil> we can agree to disagree 🙂
2024-02-20T01:01:28 < qyx> see we are here again
2024-02-20T01:01:32 < nuxil> ^^
2024-02-20T01:01:58 < qyx> yes it is wrong :p
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2024-02-20T01:16:51 < nuxil> py2.8 was nice tho.  i had a lot of fun with it.
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2024-02-20T01:19:36 < nuxil> my biggest project with 2.6 was probably BEC. "Battleye Extendedd Controls". it was a automated Rcon tool for some gameservers. arma/dayz.. 
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2024-02-20T01:19:51 < nuxil> hehe, i ended that project almost 10years ago. but it was all python.
2024-02-20T01:19:56 < nomorekaki> https://www.reddit.com/r/github/comments/1at9br4/i_am_new_to_github_and_i_have_lots_to_say/
2024-02-20T01:23:27 < nuxil> nomorekaki,  altho. it wouldnt take much effort to put up a binary for the platform your using. to shut some of these idiots up 
2024-02-20T01:25:26 < qyx> thats work of the maintainer
2024-02-20T01:25:59 < qyx> (of a package based on the code)
2024-02-20T01:26:05 < nomorekaki> can I preprocess my code in way that I have freeware macro that omits parts of code and I set that macro and nothing else and freeware files come out?
2024-02-20T01:26:16 < nuxil> i dont really use github tho. i have like two projects there lol. but i managed to put up a bin for both of them 😛 but yea for big large projects that has a long buuild time, and if its updated often it can be a nightmare.
2024-02-20T01:26:20 < nomorekaki> other macros still unevaluated
2024-02-20T01:27:02 < qyx> nuxil: I have a really hard time trying to grasp your mindset
2024-02-20T01:27:08 < nomorekaki> or is there some git magic that works within individual files?
2024-02-20T01:29:10 < qyx> nomorekaki: try again?
2024-02-20T01:29:21 < qyx> I don't follow
2024-02-20T01:29:30 < qyx> whatis a freeware macro?
2024-02-20T01:29:34 < nomorekaki> I want something like:
2024-02-20T01:30:36 < nomorekaki> #if FREEWARE
2024-02-20T01:30:37 < nomorekaki> #else
2024-02-20T01:30:52 < nomorekaki> ah this removed comments
2024-02-20T01:31:10 < nomorekaki> #if FREEWARE
2024-02-20T01:31:11 < nomorekaki> freeware functionality */
2024-02-20T01:31:11 < nomorekaki> #else
2024-02-20T01:31:12 < nomorekaki> full functionality */
2024-02-20T01:31:38 < nomorekaki> then preprocess only freeware macro and nothing else?
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2024-02-20T01:32:03 < qyx> the -DFREEWARE compiler option?
2024-02-20T01:32:17 < nuxil> #ifdef freeware 
2024-02-20T01:32:49 < qyx> and yes, you need to do #if defined(FREEWARE)
2024-02-20T01:35:51 < nomorekaki> qyx: all other macros need to stay unevaluated
2024-02-20T01:37:59 < qyx> so just use inverted logic
2024-02-20T01:38:11 < qyx> #if defined(FULL)
2024-02-20T01:38:17 < nuxil> #ifndef FREEWARE#include "fullmacros.h"
2024-02-20T01:38:17 < nuxil> #else
2024-02-20T01:38:17 < nuxil> #include "freemacros.h"
2024-02-20T01:38:17 < nuxil> #endif  ?
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2024-02-20T01:51:45 < nomorekaki> I basically want to source file to have both freeware and full implementation
2024-02-20T01:52:56 < nomorekaki> and freeware macro is not used but only to create freeware version of the file
2024-02-20T01:53:11 < nomorekaki> otherwise it's used as full featured
2024-02-20T01:55:18 < nomorekaki> just thinking if preprocessor could be utilized to do the work
2024-02-20T01:55:22 < qyx> #if !defined(FREEWARE) for other code?
2024-02-20T01:55:38 < qyx> you want it hasslefree?
2024-02-20T01:56:20 < nomorekaki> I think I wont get it hasslefree
2024-02-20T01:57:55 < nomorekaki> I don't see how preprocessor wouldn't evaluate other macros
2024-02-20T01:58:55 < nomorekaki> I have includes to header and header has defaults for macros
2024-02-20T01:59:32 < nuxil> https://bpa.st/LYCA ?
2024-02-20T02:00:38 < nomorekaki> still merges header to the source
2024-02-20T02:01:43 < nomorekaki> hmm.. include nothing if freeware :o
2024-02-20T02:03:39 < nomorekaki> try to evaluate default value macros that are not there - it wont
2024-02-20T02:04:16 < nomorekaki> but it defaults to #else in #if conditions?
2024-02-20T02:06:08 < nomorekaki> it will evaluate conditions regardless if macros are defined or not
2024-02-20T02:07:03 < nomorekaki> it might be that python script is required
2024-02-20T02:07:46 < nuxil> what?
2024-02-20T02:09:31 < nuxil> its just a matter of sticking a bunch of preprosessor test in the code. and do two builds. i dont sure i understand the problem.
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2024-02-20T02:12:21 < nuxil> do you want it to be able to lock up to "full version" from free ?
2024-02-20T02:12:21 < nomorekaki> "An identifier that is not defined as a macro is converted to 0 before the expression is evaluated."
2024-02-20T02:13:02 < nomorekaki> that means all nested layers or macro conditions will evaluate regardless
2024-02-20T02:13:08 < nomorekaki> *of
2024-02-20T02:13:38 < nomorekaki> and I don't want that. I want #ifs and #elses to stay in the output
2024-02-20T02:15:07 < nomorekaki> but the freeware related #ifs and #elses.. those can be evaluated
2024-02-20T02:21:38 < nomorekaki> I'm not compiling
2024-02-20T02:21:51 < nomorekaki> just generating a freeware version of the source
2024-02-20T02:26:38 < nuxil> what kind of project is this ?
2024-02-20T02:27:42 < nomorekaki> library of sorts
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2024-02-20T02:46:05 < nuxil> nomorekaki, how about a nasty function pointer 😛 
2024-02-20T02:46:15 < nuxil> https://www.onlinegdb.com/bMmHkcm12 
2024-02-20T02:46:22 < nomorekaki> no
2024-02-20T02:46:36 < nomorekaki> no unnecessary function pointers
2024-02-20T02:46:41 < nuxil> got to gear, and set extra compiler flag to -DFREEWARE
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2024-02-20T02:52:29 < nomorekaki> it still evaluates all the macro conditions in the code
2024-02-20T02:53:17 < nomorekaki> hmm I know what to google now
2024-02-20T02:53:45 < nomorekaki> maybe someone has done multistage preprocessing for some reason
2024-02-20T02:54:21 < nomorekaki> "Partial preprocessing"
2024-02-20T02:54:32 < nuxil> well. if you want to just cut out parts of the source code for sharing a "free open source code version". . just go though it line by line. add your own syntax. IE. a [<Start>] code.. [<End>]. and use regex to parse the file.
2024-02-20T02:55:31 < nuxil> you and your beloved pythong 😛
2024-02-20T02:55:55 < nomorekaki> https://coan2.sourceforge.net/
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2024-02-20T02:57:36 < nomorekaki> hmm it's used for "dead code removal"
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2024-02-20T09:19:41 -!- Guest36 [~Guest36@14.141.123.162] has joined ##stm32
2024-02-20T09:19:56 < Guest36> Hi @HBOSTM and @AndrewCapon I have changed the drivers and everything yet its not working for me
2024-02-20T09:19:57 < Guest36> this is set of errors and warnings I am receiving
2024-02-20T09:19:57 < Guest36> arm-none-eabi-gcc "/home/ad/en.FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I-Discovery/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.c" -mcpu=cortex-m7 -std=gnu11 -g3 -DUSE_HAL_DRIVER -DSTM32H747xx -DUSE_STM32H747I_DISCO -DCORE_CM7 -DDATA_IN_ExtSDRAM -DMEMORY_SCHEME=3 -DCAMERA_CAPTURE_RES=2 -DPIXEL_FMT_CONV=1 -DARM_MATH_CM7 -DOBJECTDETECT -DSTM32IPL
2024-02-20T09:19:58 < Guest36> -D__FPU_PRESENT=1 -c -I../../../CM7/Inc -I../../../../Common/CM7/Inc -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/Device/ST/STM32H7xx/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/DSP/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/STM32H7xx_HAL_Driver/Inc -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I-Discovery
2024-02-20T09:19:58 < Guest36> -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/Common -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/ov9655 -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/otm8009a -I../../../../../../../Utilities/Fonts -I../../../../../../../Utilities/lcd -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Runtime/Inc
2024-02-20T09:19:59 < Guest36> -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Utilities/Inc -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_ImageProcessing_Library/Inc -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/Third_Party/FatFs/src -I../../../CM7/lib/libpeopledetect/Inc -Ofast -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -Wall -fstack-usage -fcyclomatic-complexity -MMD -MP
2024-02-20T09:19:59 < Guest36> -MF"Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.d" -MT"Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.o" --specs=nano.specs -mfpu=fpv5-d16 -mfloat-abi=hard -mthumb -o "Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.o"
2024-02-20T09:20:00 < Guest36> arm-none-eabi-gcc -o "STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.elf" @"objects.list" -l:LibPeopleDetect110_CM7_GCC.a -l:NetworkRuntime710_CM7_GCC.a -mcpu=cortex-m7 -T"/home/ad/en.FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/Projects/STM32H747I-DISCO/Applications/PeopleCounting/STM32CubeIDE/CM7/STM32H747XIHx_FLASH_CM7_Full_Internal_Fps.ld"
2024-02-20T09:20:00 < Guest36> --specs=nosys.specs -Wl,-Map="STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.map" -Wl,--gc-sections -static -L../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Runtime/lib -L../../../CM7/lib/libpeopledetect -u _printf_float --specs=nano.specs -mfpu=fpv5-d16 -mfloat-abi=hard -mthumb -Wl,--start-group -lc -lm -Wl,--end-group
2024-02-20T09:20:01 < Guest36> (.text._fstat_r+0xe): warning: _fstat is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:20:02 < Guest36> (.text._isatty_r+0xc): warning: _isatty is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:20:03 < Guest36> (.text._lseek_r+0x10): warning: _lseek is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:20:04 < Guest36> (.text._write_r+0x10): warning: _write is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:20:06 < Guest36> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
2024-02-20T09:20:07 < Guest36> make: *** [makefile:71: STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.elf] Error 1
2024-02-20T09:20:07 < Guest36> "make -j6 all" terminated with exit code 2. Build might be incomplete.
2024-02-20T09:20:08 < Guest36> 10:46:34 Build Failed. 4 errors, 8 warnings. (took 1s.442ms)
2024-02-20T09:21:47 < Guest36> Hi @HBOSTM and @AndrewCapon I have changed the drivers and everything yet its not working for me
2024-02-20T09:21:48 < Guest36> this is set of errors and warnings I am receiving
2024-02-20T09:21:48 < Guest36> arm-none-eabi-gcc "/home/ad/en.FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I-Discovery/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.c" -mcpu=cortex-m7 -std=gnu11 -g3 -DUSE_HAL_DRIVER -DSTM32H747xx -DUSE_STM32H747I_DISCO -DCORE_CM7 -DDATA_IN_ExtSDRAM -DMEMORY_SCHEME=3 -DCAMERA_CAPTURE_RES=2 -DPIXEL_FMT_CONV=1 -DARM_MATH_CM7 -DOBJECTDETECT -DSTM32IPL
2024-02-20T09:21:49 < Guest36> -D__FPU_PRESENT=1 -c -I../../../CM7/Inc -I../../../../Common/CM7/Inc -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/Device/ST/STM32H7xx/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/CMSIS/DSP/Include -I../../../../../../../Drivers/STM32H7xx_HAL_Driver/Inc -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I-Discovery
2024-02-20T09:21:49 < Guest36> -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/Common -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/ov9655 -I../../../../../../../Drivers/BSP/Components/otm8009a -I../../../../../../../Utilities/Fonts -I../../../../../../../Utilities/lcd -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Runtime/Inc
2024-02-20T09:21:50 < Guest36> -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Utilities/Inc -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_ImageProcessing_Library/Inc -I../../../../../../../Middlewares/Third_Party/FatFs/src -I../../../CM7/lib/libpeopledetect/Inc -Ofast -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -Wall -fstack-usage -fcyclomatic-complexity -MMD -MP
2024-02-20T09:21:50 < Guest36> -MF"Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.d" -MT"Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.o" --specs=nano.specs -mfpu=fpv5-d16 -mfloat-abi=hard -mthumb -o "Drivers/BSP/STM32H747I_DISCO/stm32h747i_discovery_lcd.o"
2024-02-20T09:21:51 < Guest36> arm-none-eabi-gcc -o "STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.elf" @"objects.list" -l:LibPeopleDetect110_CM7_GCC.a -l:NetworkRuntime710_CM7_GCC.a -mcpu=cortex-m7 -T"/home/ad/en.FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/FP-AI-VISION1_V3.1.0/Projects/STM32H747I-DISCO/Applications/PeopleCounting/STM32CubeIDE/CM7/STM32H747XIHx_FLASH_CM7_Full_Internal_Fps.ld"
2024-02-20T09:21:51 < Guest36> --specs=nosys.specs -Wl,-Map="STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.map" -Wl,--gc-sections -static -L../../../../../../../Middlewares/ST/STM32_AI_Runtime/lib -L../../../CM7/lib/libpeopledetect -u _printf_float --specs=nano.specs -mfpu=fpv5-d16 -mfloat-abi=hard -mthumb -Wl,--start-group -lc -lm -Wl,--end-group
2024-02-20T09:21:52 < Guest36> (.text._fstat_r+0xe): warning: _fstat is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:21:53 < Guest36> (.text._isatty_r+0xc): warning: _isatty is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:21:54 < Guest36> (.text._lseek_r+0x10): warning: _lseek is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:21:55 < Guest36> (.text._write_r+0x10): warning: _write is not implemented and will always fail
2024-02-20T09:21:57 < Guest36> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
2024-02-20T09:21:58 < Guest36> make: *** [makefile:71: STM32H747I-DISCO_PeopleCounting_CM7.elf] Error 1
2024-02-20T09:21:58 < Guest36> "make -j6 all" terminated with exit code 2. Build might be incomplete.
2024-02-20T09:21:59 < Guest36> 10:46:34 Build Failed. 4 errors, 8 warnings. (took 1s.442ms)
2024-02-20T09:21:59 < Guest36> Screenshot from 2024-02-20 10-51-03
2024-02-20T09:22:00 < Guest36> Screenshot from 2024-02-20 10-50-44
2024-02-20T09:22:04 < Guest36> How to solve this issue
2024-02-20T09:22:51 < Guest36> I have stm32h747i-discovery kit board and I am running the fp-ai-vision1 people counting example
2024-02-20T09:23:53 < qyx> what
2024-02-20T09:24:33 < qyx> there is no andrew capon
2024-02-20T09:24:54 < qyx> and long listings should go to pastebin
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2024-02-20T10:59:35 < karlp> I wonder where they thought they were?
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2024-02-20T11:11:53 < qyx> idk I tried to google it
2024-02-20T11:11:55 < qyx> nothing
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2024-02-20T11:29:24 < mawk> Guest36 what
2024-02-20T11:29:56 < mawk> if you read the warnings you will see that you are using unimplemented syscaklls, Guest36 
2024-02-20T11:30:00 < mawk> implement them
2024-02-20T11:30:03 < mawk> or remove the code that uses them
2024-02-20T11:30:12 < mawk> usually _write and _read will go to your debug serial port
2024-02-20T11:30:16 < mawk> or RTT or whatever
2024-02-20T11:30:29 -!- ventYl [~ventyl@bband-dyn224.95-103-26.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2024-02-20T11:30:30 < mawk> the rest you can direct to your FAT32 library if you use a SD card
2024-02-20T11:30:42 < mawk> or keep them always failing
2024-02-20T11:31:16 < mawk> but I don't really see errors only warnings in there
2024-02-20T11:31:23 < mawk> I wonder how these ld warnings work
2024-02-20T11:33:04 < mawk> in the C code you can use #pragma poison or something but the error will be earlier
2024-02-20T11:37:49 < qyx> those are warnings only and are emitted with gcc12+ for whatever reason
2024-02-20T11:38:01 < qyx> with nano + nosys
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2024-02-20T11:56:46 < karlp> yeah, big suck on those warnings.
2024-02-20T12:03:46 < karlp> almost curious what the actual error they were seeing was.
2024-02-20T12:23:02 < mawk> I know they are warnings, it's what I said
2024-02-20T12:25:04 < mawk> but how do they work
2024-02-20T12:25:30 < mawk> oo
2024-02-20T12:25:41 < mawk> >define the function with a message in .gnu.warning* section
2024-02-20T12:25:46 < mawk> probably how it does it
2024-02-20T12:25:51 < mawk> somehow
2024-02-20T12:27:43 < mawk> yes it's that
2024-02-20T12:27:55 < mawk> using the __warn_references macro provided by newlib
2024-02-20T12:28:12 < mawk> maybe
2024-02-20T12:29:13 < mawk> no it's in the libnosys bit
2024-02-20T12:29:27 < mawk> all these stub_warning(_open) functions
2024-02-20T12:29:45 < mawk> but still using the gnu.warning mechanism I said
2024-02-20T12:30:42 < mawk> /* We will never be heard; they will all die horribly.  */
2024-02-20T12:30:43 < mawk> lol
2024-02-20T12:31:43 < mawk> so if you want to silence these warnings I think you can provide weak implementations of the syscalls with __attribute__((error)) to make sure they're not called
2024-02-20T12:38:43 < mawk> it's better to have them at compile time rather than link time anyway
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2024-02-20T14:22:07 < karlp> the issue people have is that they're not being called, so they'd rather both a) not provide implemetnations and b) not get warnings about them.
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2024-02-20T14:45:25 < jpa-> heh, it took me 10+ years to realize that "XL" in LSM6 IMU registers was phonetically "accel" and has nothing to do with extra large :)
2024-02-20T14:50:45 < qyx> lol
2024-02-20T15:25:08 -!- hsv_ is now known as hsv
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2024-02-20T15:51:12 < fenugrec> that is XLent
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2024-02-20T16:55:48 < Posterdati> hi
2024-02-20T16:56:16 < Posterdati> please help does anyone know how to get the opcode table for cortex m7 mcu? Thanks!
2024-02-20T16:58:41 < qyx> isn't in arm.com?
2024-02-20T16:58:43 < qyx> Copy the product CD-ROM
2024-02-20T16:58:47 < qyx> source code to the working directory,
2024-02-20T16:58:53 < qyx> which year is it now?
2024-02-20T16:59:22 < qyx> Linaro toolchain : gcc version 4.9.3
2024-02-20T16:59:51 < qyx> SDK installer as a sh!
2024-02-20T17:00:00 < qyx> hush
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2024-02-20T17:06:25 < karlp> mission accomplished, usb host on k70, with the onboard legacy  CY7C65642 hub hard wired in.
2024-02-20T17:06:37 < karlp> the powah of open source, even when it's buggy.
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2024-02-20T17:20:28 < mawk> I'm trying to define a GIT_TAG macro from stm32cubeide/eclipse
2024-02-20T17:20:37 < mawk> using the seemingly undocumented $(shell) construct
2024-02-20T17:21:03 < mawk> I want to make it quoted, but eclipse eats up the trailing " when defining the define
2024-02-20T17:21:05 < mawk> beautiful 
2024-02-20T17:21:19 < qyx> "" \" not helpful?
2024-02-20T17:21:20 < mawk> "$(shell ...)" becomes "$(shell ...)
2024-02-20T17:21:26 < mawk> no
2024-02-20T17:21:43 < mawk> so I did "$(shell ...)"" and it becomes "$(shell ...)"
2024-02-20T17:21:45 < mawk> lol
2024-02-20T17:21:53 < mawk> as long as nobody tries to modify it it's fine I guess 
2024-02-20T17:21:55 < qyx> yeah double quotes
2024-02-20T17:22:02 < mawk> but only for the last one
2024-02-20T17:22:03 < qyx> or backslash quote
2024-02-20T17:22:07 < mawk> the first one is untouched
2024-02-20T17:22:38 < mawk> if I press edit and ok it removes the last quote again
2024-02-20T17:23:19 < mawk> that's what the weak thing does karlp , it's not an implementation 
2024-02-20T17:23:24 < mawk> it just silences the warning 
2024-02-20T17:23:30 < mawk> and makes an error if it's actually used
2024-02-20T17:24:27 < mawk> __attribute__((__weak__, __error__("define a real implementation of _write"))) int _write(int fd, char *s, size_t sz) {}
2024-02-20T17:25:13 < mawk> the error will trigger if _write is not eliminated by dead code elimination 
2024-02-20T17:25:17 < mawk> ie if it's actually used
2024-02-20T17:26:19 < karlp> wat?
2024-02-20T17:26:22 < qyx> you are trying to get rid of those warnings as an exercise?
2024-02-20T17:26:35 < karlp> take working code from gcc 10, that _does NOT_ use seek write, read, whatever,
2024-02-20T17:26:43 < karlp> switch to gcc 12, and start getting those warnings.
2024-02-20T17:26:55 < karlp> being required to add impls is _dumb_ 
2024-02-20T17:27:02 < karlp> I don't care if I can "just implement them"
2024-02-20T17:27:30 < qyx> fuk fighting ip for a while and realising it is busybox
2024-02-20T17:27:38 < qyx> no wonder
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2024-02-20T17:44:13 < mawk> it's newlib that added them, not gcc
2024-02-20T17:44:25 < mawk> you just got a newer newlib version in your newer toolchain
2024-02-20T17:45:15 < mawk> no qyx , just saying what newlib should've done to not make useless warnings
2024-02-20T17:45:32 < mawk> with what I said the error will occur only if you actually use the symbols
2024-02-20T17:47:37 < mawk> although I guess as a library it's harder to do that
2024-02-20T17:47:41 < mawk> but not impossible
2024-02-20T18:01:08 < karlp> goddamn steady firefox updates, and altium cloud sch/pcb browser can still crash my whole desktop.
2024-02-20T18:26:05 < jbo> PaulFertser, ping
2024-02-20T18:26:46 < PaulFertser> jbo: pong
2024-02-20T18:27:13 < jbo> PaulFertser, about 12 years ago openocd had some hand-written document listing the various build config options: https://github.com/openrisc/openOCD/blob/master/README
2024-02-20T18:27:26 < jbo> PaulFertser, I'm trying to locate the equivalent resource of OpenOCD 0.12
2024-02-20T18:27:27 < mawk> ./configure --help
2024-02-20T18:27:30 < mawk> everything is there
2024-02-20T18:27:34 < jbo> PaulFertser, should I just use the config output instead?
2024-02-20T18:27:52 < mawk> autoreconf -f -v -i before
2024-02-20T18:27:56 < mawk> to generate configure
2024-02-20T18:28:12 < mawk> or ./bootstrap if it's there
2024-02-20T18:28:16 < PaulFertser> jbo: yes, the configure output is good
2024-02-20T18:28:31 < PaulFertser> jbo: but what is your particular quest today?
2024-02-20T18:28:52 < jbo> PaulFertser, thanks
2024-02-20T18:29:01 < jbo> mawk, are you on some reaction time enhancing drugs again?
2024-02-20T18:29:07 < PaulFertser> mawk: btw, I prefer mkdir build-native; cd build-native; ../configure 
2024-02-20T18:29:27 < mawk> the opposite actually jbo
2024-02-20T18:29:39 < jbo> PaulFertser, I inherited the OpenOCD port/package for FreeBSD a while ago and that needs some serious love/updating.
2024-02-20T18:29:42 < PaulFertser> jbo: I think it makes little sense to just copy configure output to a document because it's only really useful when you can run configure itself anyway.
2024-02-20T18:30:40 < PaulFertser> jbo: after the configure run it prints a summary, for packaging purposes you might want to make sure nothing is autodetected and explicit. Or probably the opposite, you want to specify all the dependencies and get new features automatically enabled the same as old ones. Not sure.
2024-02-20T18:30:54 < PaulFertser> jbo: feel free to ask about any specific feature, I'll try to explain.
2024-02-20T18:31:32 < PaulFertser> And if I'm not answering here, just write to the devel mailing list. OpenOCD maintainers are serious about keeping good relations with all package maintainers.
2024-02-20T18:31:47 < jbo> PaulFertser, that auto-detection part is exactly why I was initially asking whether OpenOCD still ships a hand written document for that. I want to make sure that I get an output of ALL the options possible, not only the one specific to my particular setup.
2024-02-20T18:32:13 < PaulFertser> jbo: configure --help prints all the options
2024-02-20T18:32:46 < jbo> PaulFertser, so configure --help would not do something like not showing an option only because it's not available on my system? i.e. if my development system would lack libusb or libftdi, it would still print the options?
2024-02-20T18:33:03 < PaulFertser> jbo: it would still print them
2024-02-20T18:33:13 < jbo> PaulFertser, that's good to know - thank you :)
2024-02-20T18:33:51 < jbo> also thanks @ mawk
2024-02-20T18:34:50 < PaulFertser> jbo: I can imagine /some/ options to get hidden if autoconf doesn't think they can do anything ever on your system, but that doesn't depend on what you have installed there.
2024-02-20T18:36:39 < PaulFertser> And that doesn't affect OpenOCD-specific options defined with AC_ARG in configure.ac.
2024-02-20T18:36:39 < jbo> alright
2024-02-20T18:37:06 < PaulFertser> And you can't use them anyhow anyway if the configure script is generated without them by autoconf.
2024-02-20T18:37:28 < jbo> autoconf is just pain
2024-02-20T18:37:43 < jbo> (speaking as a package maintainer)
2024-02-20T18:43:19 < jbo> PaulFertser, there's another thing I'm trying to figure out...
2024-02-20T18:43:40 < jbo> PaulFertser, there's  --enable-ftdi   and then there are a bunch of  --enable-xxx which I think some of them depend on  --enable-ftdi
2024-02-20T18:44:12 < jbo> as a package maintainer we don't want to have too many "unnecessary" options. so I am wondering if there is a downside to automatically enable all FTDI based adapters if the FTDI option is enabled.
2024-02-20T18:44:45 < jbo> but that would require figuring out which of those --enable-xxx adapters depend on --enable-ftdi and whether there are any downsides to always enable those other than compile-time/binary-size.
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2024-02-20T23:11:48 < PaulFertser> jbo: if you do not enable some adapter that depends on ftdilib then it'll be auto-enabled anyway if ftdilib is present during the configuration.
--- Day changed ke helmi 21 2024
2024-02-21T00:20:31 < qyx> whoa zeromq disconnect requires an address to disconnect from
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2024-02-21T01:41:11 < Laurenceb_> s/full spectrum dominance/autistic spectrum dominance
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2024-02-21T06:25:29 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Other than Toshiba's TC358743XBG, are there any other HDMI-to-CSI/USB3 chips that you guys are aware?
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2024-02-21T14:04:32 < karlp> lol: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/e69sx.png
2024-02-21T14:09:34 < zyp> haha, what's that?
2024-02-21T14:19:39 < karlp> https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/universal-serial-bus/ez-usb-hub-controllers/ez-usb-hx2vl-usb-2.0-hub-controller/cy7c65642-48axc/
2024-02-21T14:19:52 < karlp> plain old mtt 4 port usb 2 hub chip.
2024-02-21T14:20:12 < karlp> we have it on a board here, and it's "EOL" status was part of the impetus for a redesigned board.
2024-02-21T14:20:16 < karlp> it was also believed to "not work"
2024-02-21T14:20:39 < karlp> but I've proven all that wrong with my l33t skillz
2024-02-21T14:21:16 < zyp> good job getting the EOL status revoked
2024-02-21T14:22:22 < karlp> wasn't me :)
2024-02-21T14:22:47 < karlp> the othe rmajor impetus was nxp declarign k70 to be dead.
2024-02-21T14:22:54 < karlp> it's now also "undead" with promise out to 2035.
2024-02-21T14:23:14 < karlp> I'm curious who the big player that got that change done is, but not really my concern.
2024-02-21T14:24:14 < karlp> so now we're staring at what ended up being a 18months or so board redsign, all of covid, being just ... unnecessary.  parts on old boards are all back in stock, old board has more performance, and I've fixed usb for the old board.
2024-02-21T14:24:23 < karlp> glad I'm not in management anymore I guess....
2024-02-21T14:37:53 < ventYl> I guess that this is not uncommon story
2024-02-21T14:38:13 < ventYl> I've been working on cryptocode for turris router, which got board redesign due to part shortage
2024-02-21T14:38:38 < ventYl> redesigned board went into production in january, old parts are available for more than a year
2024-02-21T15:04:13 < karlp> yeah, we'd just keep going with the new board, but it has unexpected other deficincies, so it's being evaluated to just bail out on it.
2024-02-21T15:05:33 < zyp> sunk cost fallacy…
2024-02-21T15:05:48 < englishman> were there any improvements or optimizations added to the design
2024-02-21T15:06:04 < englishman> and how much were new designs delayed due to those efforts
2024-02-21T15:06:18 < karlp> sunk cost fallacy would be keeping with the new one because we sunk cost on it isn' tit?
2024-02-21T15:06:29 < zyp> yes
2024-02-21T15:06:42 < karlp> englishman: not that I'm aware of, a bunch of stuff was explicitly _not_ touched, so that it could still be certified as the old one.
2024-02-21T15:06:56 < englishman> nice
2024-02-21T15:06:57 < karlp> a bunch of software re-org was done, which all gets kept of course, so net improvement.
2024-02-21T15:06:59 < englishman> sounds like what we did too
2024-02-21T15:07:12 < englishman> but then again, the alternative was no revenues during a pretty long period
2024-02-21T15:07:48 < englishman> our code turned into a literal mishmash of spaghetti with new code untested on old boards and released as updates, etc.
2024-02-21T15:07:55 < zyp> if you've made something objectively worse than the original solution and the reason for the compromises are gone, throwing it all away is pretty rational even though the sunk cost sucks
2024-02-21T15:08:09 < englishman> so we dont have updates on the website anymore. which is a net improvement imo
2024-02-21T15:08:23 < karlp> zyp: yep, I'm pretty sure we'll be doing it, but... not sure, don't have a lot of faith in management.
2024-02-21T15:08:42 < englishman> karl and i are turds in the same toilet
2024-02-21T15:08:48 < karlp> my othe rproject is literally a garbage fire, that no longer meets desired requirements, but they refuse to pull the plug on it and do it over with the actual goals.
2024-02-21T15:09:09 < englishman> wow i have those too 2-3 actually
2024-02-21T15:09:26 < karlp> I mean, it will work, it will be "fine" but it won't be at all _great_ or what it could have been.
2024-02-21T15:09:36 < karlp> but "you just don't understand the history of the project" 
2024-02-21T15:09:41 < englishman> do you have any me-too projects that are completely outside the scope of your company and are done far better with existing products from non-competitors
2024-02-21T15:10:24 < karlp> dude, we produce our own ethernet switch. yes.
2024-02-21T15:10:28 < englishman> lmao
2024-02-21T15:10:57 < karlp> https://www.ebay.com/itm/196210405943
2024-02-21T15:11:00 < englishman> do you leave work at night thinking i have accomplished nothing today and i won't tomorrow
2024-02-21T15:11:18 < karlp> theyr'e finally considering jsut using off the shelf parts now, because the realtek part in that is now finally EOL
2024-02-21T15:11:52 < karlp> I've not got a clear answer on what exactly was the requirement for that swithc, I've been told "nothign else on the market was suitable at the time" but ... doubts...
2024-02-21T15:12:08 < karlp> no, I do my thing, and I keep an eye out for something else.
2024-02-21T15:12:10 < englishman> "we absolutely needed the screw terminals"
2024-02-21T15:12:32 < karlp> if I don't get a serious pay bump in three months I'll be walking anyway.
2024-02-21T15:12:38 < englishman> nice
2024-02-21T15:12:58 < karlp> expected a pay review at three months, but got told hr process only allows changes six months after hiring.
2024-02-21T15:13:04 < englishman> does that happen, ever, at such a large company
2024-02-21T15:13:24  * karlp shrugs.  If I'd know they were going ot be that bad and slow, I would have haggled up front,
2024-02-21T15:13:41 < karlp> iceland is normally pretty good at three months demonstrate your worth and then re-negotiate
2024-02-21T15:14:01 < karlp> I argued for two months at one place, because he _reallly_ didn't want to pay anything close to what I felt I was worth.
2024-02-21T15:14:13 < karlp> he agreed with me after two months...
2024-02-21T15:14:27 < karlp> anyway, 3.5hours til holidays...
2024-02-21T15:14:31 < karlp> what to do....
2024-02-21T15:14:34 < englishman> that's pretty cool, and fair, new hires are a big risk
2024-02-21T15:14:53 < karlp> I agree, but six months is a long time to make a new hire prove themselves.
2024-02-21T15:15:11 < englishman> clean out your inbox so you have only new stuff when you arrive
2024-02-21T15:15:21 < englishman> dont be gentle with the delete button
2024-02-21T15:15:31 < qyx> all works are the same
2024-02-21T15:15:36 < qyx> mind demanding, not paying
2024-02-21T15:15:43 < qyx> fuk the work
2024-02-21T15:16:09 < qyx> nobody can imagine what ##stm32 can achieve
2024-02-21T15:16:21 < qyx> if they did, we would all do 8 figures yearly
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2024-02-21T15:17:39 < zyp> I don't get this «clean out your inbox» thing, do you guys get so many emails that you can't keep on top of them? why?
2024-02-21T15:18:03 < karlp> no, not me. I've never really had this inbox fighting thing.
2024-02-21T15:19:14 < qyx> I don't clear inbox
2024-02-21T15:19:22 < zyp> yeah, also that
2024-02-21T15:20:17 < zyp> I treat the inbox as an archive of emails I've received
2024-02-21T15:21:03 < englishman> yes input is much more than capacity and sometimes things take a while to properly delegate
2024-02-21T15:21:23 < englishman> also not everything needs to be done but saying no also takes time
2024-02-21T15:22:08 < englishman> inbox for me is a todo list, the archive is the archive
2024-02-21T15:22:16 < englishman> i think google's inbox started this
2024-02-21T15:24:35 < englishman> i guess i think about it like if it was the 50s and there was a literal in-box in my office where people put paper
2024-02-21T15:24:53 < zyp> in my private gmail, I use the starred feature as a TODO list
2024-02-21T15:25:10 < qyx> I use a whiteboard as a todo list
2024-02-21T15:25:43 < zyp> anything I need to deal with but won't immediately gets a star, once I've dealt with it star goes away
2024-02-21T15:26:03 < karlp> I juse "unread" for that :)
2024-02-21T15:26:21 < zyp> I use a combination
2024-02-21T15:26:44 < zyp> unread is something I need to deal with soon, read+starred is something I need to deal with later
2024-02-21T15:28:45 < zyp> the latter is typically invoices/recepts and shit that I need to put into the accounting shit to get a tax deduction
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2024-02-21T18:37:33 < Mangy_Dog> Quick question.... is there a standard third gpio stazte for ... gpio... so in out... and other... In this case the other being a float and set to open drain?
2024-02-21T18:39:50 < zyp> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking
2024-02-21T18:40:35 < Mangy_Dog> Well typically IO can be set as an input or output, at least in arduino abstraction... but i guess through direct port manipulation, can you set a pin to the third state? IE float or open drain...
2024-02-21T18:40:37 < Mangy_Dog> Not high or low
2024-02-21T18:40:41 < Mangy_Dog> but float or open drain
2024-02-21T18:40:55 < zyp> input is the third state
2024-02-21T18:41:52 < zyp> maybe it helps if you think of it like this: a GPIO has two main transistors; one that drives it high and one that drives it low
2024-02-21T18:42:09 < zyp> in push-pull output mode, one of these is always enabled
2024-02-21T18:42:28 < zyp> in input mode, both are disabled, this is referred to as «tristate»
2024-02-21T18:43:10 < zyp> open drain is another output mode, which disables the high side transistor, so it effectively switches between low and tristate instead of low and high
2024-02-21T18:43:18 < Mangy_Dog> ok so you just set it to input mode to keep the pin float, then switch to output open drain when you want it to?
2024-02-21T18:43:48 < zyp> maybe you should explain what you're actually trying to achieve instead?
2024-02-21T18:44:00 < zyp> https://xyproblem.info/
2024-02-21T18:44:18 < Mangy_Dog> well i need an IO to control a reset pin on some hardware
2024-02-21T18:44:26 < Mangy_Dog> the reset pin is active low...
2024-02-21T18:44:29 < Mangy_Dog> but it cant be pulled up
2024-02-21T18:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> as that also funks with the hardwares internal watchdog timer
2024-02-21T18:45:36 < zyp> right, then you just set it to open drain output
2024-02-21T18:45:43 < zyp> that way it'll only ever drive low, never drive high
2024-02-21T18:46:01 < zyp> as I said, open drain is a mode, not a state
2024-02-21T18:46:03 < Mangy_Dog> so normal state set as input, then when you want to reset set to output low?
2024-02-21T18:46:23 < zyp> normal state set as open drain high, when you want to reset you just set it low
2024-02-21T18:46:31 < zyp> open drain high = tristate
2024-02-21T18:46:37 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2024-02-21T18:50:06 < machinehum> Anyone know things about networking?
2024-02-21T18:50:17 < Mangy_Dog> in what respect?
2024-02-21T18:50:21 < machinehum> My allwinner D1 isn't doing the packets correctly
2024-02-21T18:50:23 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/raw/x8sJYmtR
2024-02-21T18:50:31 < Mangy_Dog> oh firmware level not so much
2024-02-21T18:50:31 < Mangy_Dog>  :D
2024-02-21T18:51:02 < machinehum> Well it's just Linux with two radios, one as an AP and one connected to the internet
2024-02-21T18:51:24 < machinehum> And forwarding packets
2024-02-21T18:51:27 < machinehum> But it doesn't work
2024-02-21T18:58:23 < karlp> you seem to be sending a few too many syn's
2024-02-21T19:03:29 < Mangy_Dog> btw zyp thanks again for the help
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2024-02-21T19:20:45 < machinehum> karlp: hmm
2024-02-21T19:20:51 < machinehum> Or maybe not enough?
2024-02-21T19:21:39 < qyx> machinehum: hiw are thise two interfaces connected?
2024-02-21T19:21:56 < qyx> this listing doesn't help much
2024-02-21T19:22:05 < qyx> we need to know the configuration
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2024-02-21T19:53:10 < machinehum> qyx: One is sdio the other is usb
2024-02-21T19:53:23 < machinehum> Both into your favorite chinese SOM
2024-02-21T19:54:05 < machinehum> I took a look at htop when things were running ... cpu useage seems ... okay
2024-02-21T19:54:24 < machinehum> But by the packets... I'm wondering if it could have something to do with latency
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2024-02-21T20:08:15 < qyx> network configuration machinehum 
2024-02-21T20:09:01 < qyx> are you routing, what address settings do you use, do you have ip forwarding enabled, are you bridging, aren't there MAC conflicts, do you have proper MAC set, etc.
2024-02-21T20:22:03 < machinehum> qyx: I'm going back to the drawing board, was using something like this before https://github.com/o7-machinehum/sipeed_lichee_rv/blob/master/package/blackhat/src/blackhat.sh#L36
2024-02-21T20:22:19 < machinehum> $RADIO_AP=wlan1, $RADIO_CLIENT=wlan0
2024-02-21T20:22:56 < machinehum> ip forwarding enabled, no bridging, don't think there's MAC conflicts, not sure about MACs set
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2024-02-21T20:26:59 < qyx> wth is this
2024-02-21T20:40:23 < machinehum> lol
2024-02-21T21:05:04 < machinehum> Nevermind got it
2024-02-21T21:05:09 < machinehum> It was the airbase shit that was busted
2024-02-21T21:05:39 < machinehum> Actually more likely I just fucked something up
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2024-02-21T22:21:23 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.unixfox.eu/pic/orig/media%2FGG2D13KawAAhNS5.jpg
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--- Day changed to helmi 22 2024
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2024-02-22T00:13:16 < qyx> so python -> ethernet -> switch -> ethernet -> imx6 -> zeromq-can-bridge -> 125k CAN -> device
2024-02-22T00:13:32 < qyx> firmware read/write 495 bytes/s!
2024-02-22T00:14:04 < zyp> bottlenecked by latency?
2024-02-22T00:14:12 < qyx> yeah, it is a req/resp protocol
2024-02-22T00:15:42 < qyx> I look forward to using 10base-t1l one day for it
2024-02-22T00:17:46 < qyx> semirelated, 10base-t1s PCBs arriving tomorrow
2024-02-22T00:17:56 < qyx> with ncn26010
2024-02-22T00:21:03 < zyp> fun
2024-02-22T00:27:05 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Anyone used LVGL?
2024-02-22T00:27:16 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Is there a simple way to share resources across screens?
2024-02-22T00:27:44 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I thought creating a button and then changing the parent would work but something is wrong since nothing gets drawn on screen
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2024-02-22T00:41:38 < karlp> lol, not on stm32 anymore... :)
2024-02-22T00:49:22 -!- martinmoene__ [~Martin@2a02-a45a-96ba-1-fd5a-8ad3-bf87-c692.fixed6.kpn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2024-02-22T01:10:16 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Why not?
2024-02-22T01:12:54 < Steffanx> https://github.com/lvgl/lvgl/issues/5555
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2024-02-22T01:15:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So if I understand this correctly, they just dropped ST because they didn't sponsor the project?
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2024-02-22T01:38:10 < qyx> while we are on topic, any libs for black/white stn displays?
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2024-02-22T02:09:41 < fenugrec> qyx that throughput is awful is it constrained to 1 CAN frame per request ?
2024-02-22T02:10:35 < fenugrec> 125k CAN should give around 6-700 frames/s if math is right
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2024-02-22T08:17:04 < jpa-> qyx: u8glib is quite nice for monochrome screens
2024-02-22T08:17:16 < jpa-> (or u8g2 nowadays)
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2024-02-22T09:35:51 < qyx> fenugrec: the protocol is isotp-like and atm I need 3 frames for a request and 4 frames for a 16 byte payload
2024-02-22T09:37:13 < qyx> to be precise I can probably get 980 fps, with additional ethernet delay maybe ~500 something
2024-02-22T09:38:30 < qyx> so the theoretical maximum is in the order of 1000-2000 bytes/s not counting the time it takes to read the flash
2024-02-22T09:38:57 < qyx> jpa-: I'll check
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2024-02-22T14:12:15 < Mangy_Dog> On the F030 is there any reason why i cant run simple leds off PC12 or PC13? i think on the f103 theyre low current pins but is that still the cae on the 030? Currentling looking through datasheet and not seeing anything so far
2024-02-22T14:14:00 < jpa-> STM32F030 doesn't have Vbat backup domain so all GPIOs work the same
2024-02-22T14:14:12 < Mangy_Dog> okays
2024-02-22T14:14:23 < jpa-> hmm no
2024-02-22T14:14:33 < Mangy_Dog> oh?
2024-02-22T14:14:40 < jpa-> looks like datasheet still says in footnote "PC13, PC14 and PC15 are supplied through the power switch. Since the switch only sinks a limited amount of current (3 mA), the use of GPIOs PC13 to PC15 in output mode is limited:"
2024-02-22T14:15:01 < Mangy_Dog> poop
2024-02-22T14:15:37 < Mangy_Dog> what page is that?
2024-02-22T14:15:50 < jpa-> in the pinout descriptions
2024-02-22T14:16:55 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming i cant use them as a ground sink then? same limits?
2024-02-22T14:17:15 < jpa-> i think ground sink should work, but the spec seems incomplete
2024-02-22T14:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2024-02-22T14:18:11 < zyp> are your leds even gonna draw 3mA though?
2024-02-22T14:18:26 < Mangy_Dog> probebly
2024-02-22T14:18:26 < Mangy_Dog> more
2024-02-22T14:18:43 < Mangy_Dog> i mean typically theyre 15-20ma full bright... not that im going to put them anywhere near that
2024-02-22T14:18:50 < Mangy_Dog> but wouldnt 10ma be expected?
2024-02-22T14:19:36 < zyp> I don't know what sort of LEDs you've got and whether they're for indicators or illumination
2024-02-22T14:19:45 < Mangy_Dog> indication
2024-02-22T14:19:53 < Mangy_Dog> but still theyrell be jelly bean smds
2024-02-22T14:20:16 < zyp> for InGaN green LEDs used as indicators, I find that 100uA is plenty
2024-02-22T14:20:17 < jpa-> considering that Mangy_Dog's devices are usually a bunch of blinky lights, i expect they are going to be bright blinky lights ;)
2024-02-22T14:20:28 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2024-02-22T14:20:31 < zyp> as in 0.1 mA
2024-02-22T14:20:37 < Mangy_Dog> this is a professtional thing
2024-02-22T14:20:40 < Mangy_Dog> work thing
2024-02-22T14:20:48 < Mangy_Dog> no flashy blinky things
2024-02-22T14:20:50 < Mangy_Dog> well
2024-02-22T14:21:01 < zyp> for yellow and red leds, 1mA is probably more reasonable
2024-02-22T14:21:03 < zyp> colors matter
2024-02-22T14:21:03 < Mangy_Dog> there is... and even some addressable led strips :p but not at this bit
2024-02-22T14:21:15 < Mangy_Dog> red and green
2024-02-22T14:22:02 < zyp> for green, chemistry matter, InGaN is like 50 times or so brighter than AlGaInP at the same current
2024-02-22T14:23:28 < Mangy_Dog> ok Set them for 2mA and on ground sink
2024-02-22T14:23:45 < jpa-> sounds reasonable
2024-02-22T14:24:12 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, compare these: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603G1_C84267.pdf https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2008201032_Foshan-NationStar-Optoelectronics-NCD0603C1_C84264.pdf
2024-02-22T14:24:36 < zyp> those are two green LEDs, same mfg, same size, but different chemistries
2024-02-22T14:30:11 < Mangy_Dog> nodndos
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2024-02-22T15:49:42 < Laurence_b> https://media.notthebee.com/articles/article-65d6118a3baf3.jpg
2024-02-22T15:49:46 < Laurence_b> intergalactic sides
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2024-02-22T18:23:34 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I want to use TIM1 OutputCompare on GPIO to dim LEDs. I've set GPIO to AF_PP, initialized TIM1, set channel 1-3 to OC, started OC with _HAL_TIM_OC_START for each channel. I set the compare wih _HAL_TIM_SET_COMPARE to some value in between 0 and htim1.Init.Period ...
2024-02-22T18:23:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> But the LED is white (all outputs are at 0V)
2024-02-22T18:23:58 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Am I missing anything?
2024-02-22T18:30:42 < fenugrec> ColdKeybo[a]rd MOE bit set ?
2024-02-22T18:31:10 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> MOE?
2024-02-22T18:31:29 < fenugrec> refer to appendix of your RM for examples, there's probably one for PWM like you're doing
2024-02-22T18:34:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I guess RTFM is always an option
2024-02-22T18:45:39 < qyx> yes moe
2024-02-22T18:45:59 < qyx> tim1/8 needs it
2024-02-22T18:47:17 < qyx> ColdKeybo[a]rd: http://www.efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/g3.html
2024-02-22T18:47:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Weird that HAL does not handle that and cube does not generate it...
2024-02-22T18:47:56 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I added __HAL_TIM_MOE_ENABLE(&htim1); and it works now :\
2024-02-22T18:49:11 < fenugrec> HAL doesn't really make sense to use IMO for any ~complex timer stuff... you spend more time wondering what HAL does/doesn't internally vs what you need 
2024-02-22T19:21:13 < jpa-> applies for pretty much any peripheral
2024-02-22T19:21:29 < jpa-> only the simplest stuff is simple
2024-02-22T19:24:26 < qyx> if hal is halling properly, it hides those details for you and just works
2024-02-22T19:24:51 < qyx> hal for direct hardware access is "hardware access layer" and not abstraction
2024-02-22T19:33:09 < fenugrec> hardware absolution layer
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2024-02-22T22:08:53 < qyx> I just got a *huge* 335x110 mm PCB
2024-02-22T22:09:17 < qyx> expecting to discover a fail soon
2024-02-22T22:10:56 < qyx> ok it took me one minute
2024-02-22T22:11:25 < zyp> it doesn't count if it didn't make flames
2024-02-22T22:11:37 < qyx> then everything is okay
2024-02-22T22:11:50 < qyx> not populated yet
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2024-02-22T22:48:09 < Steffanx> Why dont you check your board BEFORE you send them to the fab, mr qyx ?
2024-02-22T22:49:28 < zyp> because then you're never gonna get it done
2024-02-22T23:01:01 < Steffanx> but than i wouldn't inspect it after receiving it either and just start populating...
2024-02-22T23:01:13 < Steffanx> and indeed wait for the flames
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2024-02-22T23:02:37 < zyp> worksforme
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2024-02-22T23:27:05 < qyx> yeah I started too
2024-02-22T23:27:11 < qyx> nah it is suge
2024-02-22T23:27:15 < qyx> *huge
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2024-02-22T23:49:19 < qyx> testing my seedbed heater pcbs with 8 V, 2 A per element
2024-02-22T23:49:58 < qyx> I have some random eleshop lab wires, they are considerably hotter than the heater
2024-02-22T23:50:01 < qyx> at 2 amps
2024-02-22T23:50:06 < qyx> what are they, 0.25 mm2?
2024-02-22T23:51:33 < qyx> ok lol, psu output is 8 V, voltage on the heater is 2 V
2024-02-22T23:52:40 < qyx> so 4 wires have 3 ohm total, they are 80 cm, so 1.625 ohm/m
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2024-02-22T23:59:09 < Laurenceb_> did the moon landing fail?
2024-02-22T23:59:12 < Laurenceb_> did the moon landing fail?
2024-02-22T23:59:31 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2024-02-22T23:59:49 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: which one, the SLIM?
--- Day changed pe helmi 23 2024
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2024-02-23T00:02:27 < qyx> yeah dmm confirms
2024-02-23T00:02:59 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/CFF0/production/_132423235_geqr4kfaeaeonkw.jpg.webp "conditions such as the lateral velocity and attitude were outside the design range, and this is thought to have resulted in a different attitude than planned." different attitude my arse
2024-02-23T00:03:48 < qyx> this is unbelievable, AWG36, 0.
2024-02-23T00:03:58 < qyx> 0.0127 mm2
2024-02-23T00:04:59 < PaulFertser> They must be very flexible though.
2024-02-23T00:06:36 < qyx> ok bad judgement, it is not copper
2024-02-23T00:06:39 < qyx> it is ferromagnetic
2024-02-23T00:09:18 < PaulFertser> " Strike while the iron is hot Steel is strongest, so say we all And if we all were not brothers of metal Would we fall? No "
2024-02-23T00:14:48 < qyx> I sent them a review but it is nowhere to be seen, meh
2024-02-23T00:22:00 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Google partnering with Reddit to buy Reddit data for AI training...
2024-02-23T00:22:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Wonder if it's going to be like Microsoft chat bot that they had to shut down after couple of hours :)
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2024-02-23T01:11:43 < qyx> oh how did that lunar thing go?
2024-02-23T01:13:24 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFS0IcOrDo
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2024-02-23T01:14:34 < qyx> 9 min to land?
2024-02-23T01:20:24 < specing> 3
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2024-02-23T01:45:32 < qyx> so another one upside down?
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2024-02-23T01:51:19 < specing> seems like the lander is looking for a local antenna dealership
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2024-02-23T09:22:23 < jpa-> i'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that inkscape has three different buggy offset algorithms
2024-02-23T09:22:30 < jpa-> usually at least one of them works correctly
2024-02-23T09:25:09 < srk> reworked inkscape is kinda weird, still not quite used to it
2024-02-23T09:27:24 < qyx> reworked?
2024-02-23T09:32:31 < jpa-> yeah, i'm still on 1.1
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2024-02-23T23:12:19 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I think the number of parts I have is becoming... well it's never too much but it's getting harder to find things.
2024-02-23T23:13:10 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I often order stuff from DK and wait for it to arrive. Then a day or two later I figure out that I already have 3 bags of the thing, just couldn't find the right box :)
2024-02-23T23:13:38 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Any open-source/free system you would recommend for storing part baggies and having a database to reference and find them?
2024-02-23T23:14:05 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I'm thinking of spinning up my own, but I don't want to do it if something useable already exists :)
2024-02-23T23:21:41 < zyp> haven't used any, but there's a bunch
2024-02-23T23:21:45 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I guess Part-DB looks nice enough to try
2024-02-23T23:40:12 < fenugrec> ColdKeybo[a]rd inventree
2024-02-23T23:40:39 < fenugrec> I have a crusty Partkeepr instance running in a docker but that software is dead and I haven't worked up the courage to migrate to inventree
2024-02-23T23:42:18 < fenugrec> any inventory mgmt takes a bit of discipline to enter shit when placing orders & using parts but it pays off. "man didn't I have like 10 of these already ?"
2024-02-23T23:45:13 < qyx> I just tidy up the parts when they arrive
2024-02-23T23:45:52 < zyp> I just buy what I need for a project
2024-02-23T23:45:53 < qyx> when I lookup in my "table" of 0603 resistor boxes and there is an empty one with 12k, I simply don't have them
2024-02-23T23:46:11 < qyx> (yes they are ordered by value)
2024-02-23T23:46:51 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> For SMT components I'm not too concerned since I have them organized on 3D printed "reel holder"
2024-02-23T23:47:17 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> But I have some many OpAmps, MCUs, ADC/DAC, Current sensing, Battery IC, PMIC, LDO etc...
2024-02-23T23:47:53 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I keep everything "grouped" in boxes. But if I were to list everything that is inside that box... I would need a huge label and even then wouldn't list everything :)
2024-02-23T23:49:09 < fenugrec> I used to be able to mentally keep track reasonably accurately of what I have on hand, but my db says I have 237 different parts now , in addition to oddball stuff I never entered
--- Day changed la helmi 24 2024
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2024-02-24T00:55:44 < sauce> just start a spreadsheet and then forget to update it until it's useless, then start a new one
2024-02-24T00:55:48 < sauce> 4 or 5 times should do the trick
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2024-02-24T03:10:24 < scrts> Does anyone use Li-ion/Li-poly charger chip also powering a microcontroller? Any recommendations?
2024-02-24T03:12:19 < specing> scrts: low power stuff? I'd just put a 3v3 ldo on the battery.
2024-02-24T03:17:29 < scrts> Ya that's fine, but what chip do you use do charge the battery?
2024-02-24T03:38:40 < qyx> mcp something something
2024-02-24T03:39:12 < qyx> mcp73841
2024-02-24T03:39:30 < qyx> but there are many newer
2024-02-24T03:39:50 < qyx> thisis the most dumb ic on earth for that
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2024-02-24T15:45:13 < fenugrec> "hmm I could use some more tweezers" - go to DK - "tweezers : 1047 results" I was expecting maybe 15-20 different models, max
2024-02-24T15:47:29 < fenugrec> ofc switzerland wins Most Expensive award for a fancy 300$ model
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2024-02-24T18:34:36 < Steffanx> Instant buy obviously, fenugrec 
2024-02-24T18:45:35 < PaulFertser> I have to note cheap tweezers are disgusting.
2024-02-24T19:02:40 < fenugrec> looking at these, https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/ideal-tek-s-a/7-SA-B-ITE/9664479
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2024-02-24T19:18:33 < Laurenceb_> https://files.catbox.moe/2hvvgu.jpg
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2024-02-24T20:28:19 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.unixfox.eu/pic/media%2FGHCsaNYXoAABzVX.png%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
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2024-02-24T21:09:41 < Steffanx> this is old and unfunny already Laurenceb_ 
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--- Day changed su helmi 25 2024
2024-02-25T00:03:36 < karlp> I have had cheap tweezers that were fine, and also cheap ones that were super soft and garbage.
2024-02-25T00:03:43 < jbo> zyp, ping
2024-02-25T00:03:53 < karlp> last time I just bought a handful off lcsc with some other stuff, they were "fine"
2024-02-25T00:04:04 < karlp> but... depends how heavy you're working with them I guess.
2024-02-25T00:04:12 < zyp> sup
2024-02-25T00:04:25 < jbo> zyp, is sizeof(std::size_t) on Cortex-M4 4?
2024-02-25T00:04:41 < karlp> you can try that on godolt yourself.
2024-02-25T00:04:54 < qyx> is there anything else it could be?
2024-02-25T00:04:55 < zyp> I would expect so, but I don't know any better than you
2024-02-25T00:06:55 < jbo> :D
2024-02-25T00:07:21 < PaulFertser> karlp: what makes me angry is clearly uneven machining of the tips and when they're not touching exactly at the end. Super soft metal of the tips is even more maddening.
2024-02-25T00:28:41 < karlp> indeed, the bad ones have been just like that, not matching and soft, but the prices of cheap ones I just bought a few and called it good. I don't need them all day every day.
2024-02-25T00:30:44 < qyx> pros, any ideas on sharing some values/config between app and bootloader using backup registers?
2024-02-25T00:30:54 < qyx> something like protobuf with IDL for bitfields
2024-02-25T00:31:04 < karlp> how much are you trying to store?!
2024-02-25T00:31:15 < karlp> just use a bigger chunk of sram?
2024-02-25T00:31:43 < qyx> a couple of different flags, a simple firmware version, etc.
2024-02-25T00:32:28 < qyx> so sram I should use
2024-02-25T00:32:52 < qyx> no I don't want sram at all
2024-02-25T00:33:29 < qyx> I like the idea of storing a bootcount in a locked register and not in sram
2024-02-25T00:34:44 < PaulFertser> karlp: thanks for the lcsc tweezers tip, will keep that in mind.
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2024-02-25T01:06:39 < Laurenceb_> is there an opensores version of this?
2024-02-25T01:06:41 < Laurenceb_> https://visualgdb.com/?features=embedded
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2024-02-25T02:15:55 < fenugrec> hm why are the gotek usb/floppy emulator gadgets still expensive... thought it'd be commodity prices by now
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2024-02-25T11:39:07 < Steffanx> fenugrec: it's less than 50 CAD. That's expensive..?
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2024-02-25T15:27:35 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790628/ movie
2024-02-25T15:27:58 < Steffanx> Want to kill me or what?
2024-02-25T15:29:32 < nomorekaki> we live in disposable culture
2024-02-25T15:29:50 < nomorekaki> cannot avoid mediocrity
2024-02-25T15:30:13 < nomorekaki> I laughed a couple times so in my books it's a good movie
2024-02-25T15:35:18 < nomorekaki> mainly jim carrey parts those were hilarious
2024-02-25T15:36:40 < Steffanx> hmm, im not convinced :P
2024-02-25T15:39:44 < nomorekaki> the fact that deadpool is number 1 rated comedy in imdb should tell you something about imdb rating system
2024-02-25T15:40:52 < qyx> curry?
2024-02-25T15:41:25 < nomorekaki> let's see if this list even has any movies falling in comedy category
2024-02-25T15:42:39 < nomorekaki> ah I didn't have sorting enabled
2024-02-25T15:44:32 < nomorekaki> okay now it says back to the future is the best comedy after some filtering
2024-02-25T15:48:55 < Steffanx> Im not sure what list you're looking at, but its not bttf here
2024-02-25T15:49:17 < nomorekaki> https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=feature&genres=comedy&sort=user_rating,desc&num_votes=2000,&moviemeter=1,5000
2024-02-25T15:49:41 < Steffanx> 1. Life Is Beautiful
2024-02-25T15:54:24 < nomorekaki> in first 50 best rated movies I see 0 good laughts
2024-02-25T16:02:04 < fenugrec> Steffanx well I'm trying to convince myself I would replace the FDDs in 3-4 instruments , so 50$ each adds up
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2024-02-25T16:22:24 < Steffanx> I cant even remember the last time i used a floppy drive.
2024-02-25T16:23:18 < nomorekaki> gave my floppy drive to friend
2024-02-25T16:23:34 < nomorekaki> old cnc machine wants floppys
2024-02-25T16:26:39 < nomorekaki> there is also serial port for transfering files directly to internal mem
2024-02-25T16:30:05 < nomorekaki> manual had picture of the transfer program used in win3.11 environment and dos
2024-02-25T16:30:23 < nomorekaki> 2 different programs
2024-02-25T16:30:48 < nomorekaki> I don't think that is viable approach
2024-02-25T16:32:44 < nomorekaki> even reversing the protocol too much hassle
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2024-02-25T16:40:34 < Steffanx> That's exactly one of those things I would try to replace nomorekaki. The floppy drive in a CNC. 
2024-02-25T16:40:59 < Steffanx> Totally worth the "investment" of less than 50 euro bucks.
2024-02-25T16:41:10 < nomorekaki> hmm maybe there is sd card reader that has fdd interface
2024-02-25T16:41:40 < nomorekaki> but floppy disk drive is already paid for and there is old floppys to use
2024-02-25T16:42:14 < nomorekaki> is there sd card floppy drive?
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2024-02-25T16:48:15 < Steffanx> USB drive floppy drive
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2024-02-25T16:52:26 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/keirf/flashfloppy
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2024-02-25T16:57:46 < qyx>  
2024-02-25T16:57:57 < Steffanx>  absolutely qyx 
2024-02-25T17:00:15 < qyx> sorry Steffanx I failed
2024-02-25T17:00:38 < Steffanx> oh dear...
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2024-02-25T17:10:16 < nomorekaki> maybe wifi floppy?
2024-02-25T17:10:49 < fenugrec> PaulFertser I was looking at exactly that (and hxc). Was hoping there would be a pre-made design on OSHpark or lcsc that I could quick-order, instead of playing the ali/EB lottery
2024-02-25T17:12:38 < Steffanx> oshpark is still a thing? :P
2024-02-25T17:15:54 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with openflops, fenugrec ?  You can have lcsc assembly them, even the F105 is in stock.
2024-02-25T17:17:05 < fenugrec> I assumed F105 was on its way out, didn't bother to check. at32F435 is what's "cool" now apparently
2024-02-25T17:17:36 < Steffanx> $2.7857  +1100 in stock.
2024-02-25T17:18:06 < Steffanx> i meant to have jlc assembly them ofcourse
2024-02-25T17:18:13 < fenugrec> yes
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2024-02-25T18:59:41 < karlp> PaulFertser: fwwi, the two tweezers I had one lcsc are gone, and "tweezers" no longer returns me results even?!
2024-02-25T19:00:08 < PaulFertser> karlp: yeah, I tried it earlier today, funny eh
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--- Day changed ma helmi 26 2024
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2024-02-26T00:45:26 < qyx> almost no innovation today?
2024-02-26T00:47:59 < fenugrec> not sure if 'innovation', but I made a desk https://filebin.net/o3a9tlrsi7hckzn9/table.jpg
2024-02-26T00:51:16 < qyx> nice, isn't it too low?
2024-02-26T00:51:56 < fenugrec> I've put up with desks that were too high, for too long. Made it a bit shorter on purpose, I also made shims for the legs if I change my mind
2024-02-26T00:52:04 < qyx> did you mess cm/inch?
2024-02-26T00:52:15 < qyx> oh
2024-02-26T00:53:19 < fenugrec> goal is to have feet flat on floor, leg horizontal, and kbd at ~ elbow height
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2024-02-26T01:01:27 < sauce> the knee smasher 9000
2024-02-26T01:05:33 < fenugrec> heh hopefully not
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2024-02-26T01:17:47 < qyx> lol
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2024-02-26T01:46:06 < karlp> inovation? what day is it?
2024-02-26T01:46:58 < karlp> fenugrec: I have that chair. I' gonna miss it when it's gone, ikea have stopped selling them.
2024-02-26T01:47:25 < karlp> butit really does look low. perspective, or are you just realy short?
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2024-02-26T02:47:15 < fenugrec> not really, 1.7something, but yes it does look low even in real
2024-02-26T02:50:44 < fenugrec> but I do believe most desks are too high for most people, if you measure elbow height as I was saying
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2024-02-26T09:31:07 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd_HxhLKlY8
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2024-02-26T10:19:35 < machinehum> For fuck sakes
2024-02-26T10:19:45 < machinehum> Why does KiCad has a scaling option for the 3D models
2024-02-26T10:19:51 < machinehum> Has ANYONE every used that
2024-02-26T10:20:09 < machinehum> Of course somehow that got changed and fucked up one of my connector placements
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2024-02-26T10:23:44 < jpa-> machinehum: i think i once got a model that was in inches
2024-02-26T10:24:05 < machinehum> Scale it in ANTOHER software lol
2024-02-26T10:24:11 < jpa-> why?
2024-02-26T10:24:41 < jpa-> do you suggest removing the offset settings also, because messing those up is just as bad?
2024-02-26T10:24:49 < machinehum> What no
2024-02-26T10:24:53 < jpa-> and you might even select the wrong model altogether!
2024-02-26T10:25:05 < machinehum> lol
2024-02-26T10:25:18 < machinehum> KiCad! Now with AI generated models!
2024-02-26T10:25:54 < jpa-> it would be nice if you could autogenerate a box of defined size
2024-02-26T10:26:32 < jpa-> though i guess you could just have a box of 1x1x1 mm and scale that
2024-02-26T10:27:16 < machinehum> For parts you don't have models for?
2024-02-26T10:27:30 < jpa-> yeah
2024-02-26T10:27:51 < machinehum> Would be nice like it Altium where you can put something when making the footprint
2024-02-26T10:28:01 < machinehum> 2D outline, and specify the height
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2024-02-26T11:18:57 < qyx> eg. QFN is a standard package which can be generated automatically
2024-02-26T11:19:09 < qyx> instead of supplying ton of options with megabytes of git awesomeness
2024-02-26T11:19:51 < qyx> x*y, height, pitch, number of pads, pad width, EP size, that's about all
2024-02-26T11:20:02 < qyx> optionally an array of pads at each side
2024-02-26T11:20:22 < qyx> for bonus points, optional text on the package
2024-02-26T11:21:11 < qyx> the same goes for standard "ceramic-like SMD things", colour, size, optional text
2024-02-26T11:48:13 < machinehum> yea
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2024-02-26T19:54:54 < fenugrec> PCBA question : with pcbway/jlc , does "number of BOM lines" make a difference on small <20u runs ?
2024-02-26T19:55:09 < fenugrec> it's unclear what their pricing structure is
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2024-02-26T19:59:03 < jpa-> fenugrec: all parts outside "basic parts" will add $3 per part type
2024-02-26T20:02:32 < fenugrec> jpa- good to know. What constitutes 'basic parts' ? doesn't look like theres anythnig searchable for pcbway, and jlc I assume that just means "whatever lcsc has"
2024-02-26T20:03:14 < jpa-> https://jlcpcb.com/parts  will show
2024-02-26T20:04:51 < jpa-> pcbway will just buy everything, so yeah, there will be extra cost based on number of different parts
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2024-02-26T20:27:15 < fenugrec> right
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--- Day changed ti helmi 27 2024
2024-02-27T00:00:18 < karlp> there's talk in the back of having more generated 3d models, for reasons of both a) they can be generated from parameters and b) otherwise it will grow too big...
2024-02-27T00:01:00 < karlp> huge chunks of new models in the repos are generated from scripts from the datasheets, with cadquery, so it's "simple" to move forward to "generate on demand" and it's being looked at.
2024-02-27T00:01:20 < qyx> \o/
2024-02-27T00:01:22 < karlp> though I agree that's somewhat orthogonal to "just make me a rational bounding box, even if you don't have a legit model
2024-02-27T00:01:47 < qyx> yeah something like a 3d courtyard
2024-02-27T00:01:53 < karlp> I don't expect this ot be a v9 thing, but, depends on omtivation of contributors
2024-02-27T00:01:55 < qyx> although I hate them because they are usually just wrong
2024-02-27T00:02:45 < karlp> cadquery now can export vrml, so the old "we scripted freecad" is gone, and plain cadquery is not acceptable, which makes it _wayyyy_ simpler.
2024-02-27T00:03:22 < qyx> v9 meh, maybe in 2030
2024-02-27T00:03:23 < karlp> at least on some of the trees I worked on, it was setup that you transcribed tables from datasheets to csv, in the order of the datasheets, to make reviewer checking easy, then just cad query to glory
2024-02-27T00:04:04 < karlp> smd inductors for instnace has "everything" now generated, all the heights, all for full atomic part numbers.
2024-02-27T00:04:21 < karlp> but it was an obvious taste of things to ocme that it was going to result in a metric fuck ton of models.... :)
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2024-02-27T00:54:35 < qyx> for some reason I thouhg IHLP are the bestestest inductors
2024-02-27T00:54:36 < qyx> but no
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2024-02-27T01:47:51 < zyp> fenugrec, basic parts is a small subset of what LCSC got, it's essentially stuff that's so common that they've got feeders loaded all the time, so there's no extra work loading the part
2024-02-27T01:48:05 < zyp> you can expect most ICs to fall outside that
2024-02-27T01:48:59 < zyp> for a simple board with cheap parts, the $3 per BOM line fee tends to drive the price
2024-02-27T01:50:08 < qyx> imagine using a LM324 in 2024 just because it is in basic parts
2024-02-27T01:50:38 < qyx> the problem with all the lcsc/jlc is that basic=cheap
2024-02-27T01:50:51 < qyx> and thats mostly junk
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2024-02-27T02:29:17 < fenugrec> zyp thanks, that explains why I can't find anything when ticking the 'basic parts' filter
2024-02-27T02:42:46 < fenugrec> for ref, I finally found the page for jlc pricing : https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/40-pcb-assembly-price
2024-02-27T02:42:52 < fenugrec> couldn't find one for pcbway though
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2024-02-27T14:37:18 < Steffanx> So what will the floppy emulator boards cost you, fenugrec ?
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2024-02-27T15:15:16 < fenugrec> Steffanx probably ~ 20-30$ assembled
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2024-02-27T15:25:40 < Laurenceb123> https://nitter.unixfox.eu/pic/orig/media%2FGHUDCPQbIAAQZOJ.jpg
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2024-02-27T17:40:11 < Ecco> Hi guys$
2024-02-27T17:40:22 < Ecco> I'd like to get up to speed on solar panels
2024-02-27T17:40:26 < Ecco> I mean, solar cells
2024-02-27T17:40:35 < Ecco> Like, how do they behave from an electrical standpoint
2024-02-27T17:41:00 < Ecco> I don't want to learn the details of how they behave as semiconductors
2024-02-27T17:41:10 < Ecco> but I'm interested in the "layer" above
2024-02-27T17:41:15 < zyp> haha
2024-02-27T17:41:29 < Ecco> zyp: Impossible?
2024-02-27T17:41:35 < zyp> AIUI they're pretty much just big photodiodes
2024-02-27T17:41:49 < zyp> you shine light on it, it makes electricity
2024-02-27T17:41:53 < Ecco> well, yeah :)
2024-02-27T17:42:00 < Ecco> But I'd like a bit more than that
2024-02-27T17:42:04 < Ecco> Like for transistors
2024-02-27T17:42:11 < Ecco> I'm currently reading the art of electronics
2024-02-27T17:42:18 < Ecco> They don't explain silicon doping
2024-02-27T17:42:26 < Ecco> they explain the electrical properties of transistors
2024-02-27T17:42:51 < Ecco> just like for inductors, the book doesn't play w/ Maxwell's equations 
2024-02-27T17:43:07 < Ecco> it "just" tells you about the final electrical behavior
2024-02-27T17:43:16 < Ecco> so I'd like to read a book kind of like this for solar cells
2024-02-27T17:43:25 < zyp> idk how the equations work, but AIUI they have a light-dependant I/V curve
2024-02-27T17:43:28 < Ecco> (AFAIK there's no chapter on solar cells in the art of electronics)
2024-02-27T17:43:29 < qyx> the final is that it is just a cc/cv source
2024-02-27T17:44:10 < Ecco> qyx: I know a *little* about cells, and I think I read that it's indeed kind of like this, with a sweet I/V spot where you draw the max power
2024-02-27T17:44:15 < zyp> i.e. the more current you pull, the lower the voltage drops
2024-02-27T17:44:21 < zyp> yep
2024-02-27T17:44:36 < zyp> and since it depends on light, it varies, so you use a MPPT regulator
2024-02-27T17:44:50 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking
2024-02-27T17:44:51 < Ecco> Yes, indeed
2024-02-27T17:45:15 < Ecco> Do you guys know any good resource I could read to improve my understanding of solar cells?
2024-02-27T17:45:17 < PaulFertser> That curve looks weird
2024-02-27T17:45:25 < qyx> but it doesn't vary much as a percentage of Voc
2024-02-27T17:45:26 < zyp> which AIUI is a regulator that just tries to stay oscillating around the sweet spot
2024-02-27T17:45:28 < Ecco> (that wikipedia page is interesting)
2024-02-27T17:45:56 < zyp> PaulFertser, what curve?
2024-02-27T17:46:15 < Ecco> but ok wait, about this MPTT device: I understand that you can vary the load of the solar cell to try and aim for the max power draw
2024-02-27T17:46:24 < Ecco> but then you need to somewhat "trasnform" it, right?
2024-02-27T17:46:30 < Ecco> Is it part of what the MPTT does?
2024-02-27T17:46:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: it is for a 20% shaded
2024-02-27T17:46:50 < qyx> the curve is ok
2024-02-27T17:46:53 < Ecco> Like it'll look like a variable resistor from the solar panel's standpoint? And then look like a constant-voltage source from the "useful" end?
2024-02-27T17:47:15 < zyp> Ecco, yeah, you do a variable buck/boost/something regulator
2024-02-27T17:47:45 < Ecco> makes sense
2024-02-27T17:47:53 < Ecco> Ok I guess there are some ready-made ICs that do this
2024-02-27T17:48:06 < Ecco> I'd also like to learn about the different solar cell technologies
2024-02-27T17:48:06 < PaulFertser> zyp: the one with some cells shaded.
2024-02-27T17:48:14 < Ecco> (monocrystaline, poly, flex)
2024-02-27T17:48:17 < zyp> MPPT is typically a software thing, I believe
2024-02-27T17:48:41 < Ecco> zyp: ok, wait, how would you generate a variable load in software?
2024-02-27T17:49:12 < zyp> you'd use a MCU to drive a couple of halfbridges making up a buck-boost converter or something
2024-02-27T17:50:20  * Ecco takes notes
2024-02-27T17:51:11 < qyx> mppt at IC level is 95% a hardware thing, as I said as a percentage of open circuit voltage
2024-02-27T17:51:30 < qyx> the only non-% regulators were SPV1040 and now one from TI, I forget which one
2024-02-27T17:51:52 < qyx> the others just use a resistor divider from the input to set the MPP level as a percentage of Voc
2024-02-27T17:52:11 < qyx> at the big-box photovoltaic MPPT controller level, it is fully software and pretty dumb
2024-02-27T17:52:40 < qyx> that is, slow, unoptimal, not always tracking absolute maximum (being stuck at the local maximum like the wiki article says)
2024-02-27T17:53:04 < qyx> so manufacturers are always marketing "our mppt is more mppt-ish, it can give you 1% more, because it is 10% faster!"
2024-02-27T17:53:29 < qyx> the ultimate solution are per-cell MPPT regulators
2024-02-27T17:53:33 < qyx> some call them "optimisers"
2024-02-27T17:53:38 < Ecco> hmm, interesting
2024-02-27T17:54:00 < qyx> which is basically a low wattage (300-500W) boost converter to about 40-60 V
2024-02-27T17:54:03 < zyp> per panel, not per cell
2024-02-27T17:54:11 < qyx> yes, sorry, per panel
2024-02-27T17:54:23 < qyx> but the sentence is still valid, per cell is even more optimal :P
2024-02-27T17:55:00 < zyp> microinverters are also a thing, kinda same idea as optimizers, but connects right to the grid instead of feeding into a separate DC/AC step
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2024-02-27T19:04:07 < scrts> Although expensive?
2024-02-27T19:04:23 < scrts> I've seen Enphase ones, was like $600 per microinverter
2024-02-27T19:12:34 < qyx> I remember sub-100e
2024-02-27T19:12:40 < qyx> and about 40e for optimisers
2024-02-27T19:12:53 < qyx> but I haven't seen them in a while
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2024-02-27T19:26:30 < mawk> my beautiful openocd wrapper https://bpa.st/XYPQU
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2024-02-27T19:59:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: you do not need any commands before program.
2024-02-27T20:00:36 < karlp> there's another version floating around (I cna share when I
2024-02-27T20:00:49 < karlp> m home) that will autoconnect to a running openocd, or start one, to run those commands.
2024-02-27T20:04:07 < jpa-> i have a version that will sometimes start an openocd and sometimes fail to do so, and might leave it running on background accidentally after you exit gdb
2024-02-27T20:09:49 < karlp> qyx: where's one for you: https://twitter.com/birkirh/status/1762510673186005489
2024-02-27T20:12:30 < jpa-> jon just has a lot of daughters
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2024-02-27T21:12:15 < qyx> karlp: it looks essential to translate it in order to understandt
2024-02-27T21:15:25 < qyx> heh
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2024-02-27T22:26:29 < qyx> Post Quantum Noise is indeed a very nice name for a crypto protocol
2024-02-27T22:52:15 < antto> Post Quantum Loirence
2024-02-27T22:55:12 < polprog> Post Quantum Cryptoanalysis, or how i learnt to stop worrying and love the gas pipe
2024-02-27T22:55:26 < polprog> Post Quantum Noise sounds like a good band name too
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--- Day changed ke helmi 28 2024
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2024-02-28T02:23:01 < qyx> polprog: lold the band name
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2024-02-28T12:09:24 < Laurenceb_> sup trawls
2024-02-28T12:10:52 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state of hyperloop
2024-02-28T12:11:12 < Laurenceb_> hyperboss now wants us to build an indoor narrow gauge railway
2024-02-28T12:11:42 < Laurenceb_>  "what does this have to do with work"
2024-02-28T12:11:46 < Laurenceb_>  >work??
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2024-02-28T12:16:42 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: what will you do now that nitter is dead?
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2024-02-28T12:32:51 < Laurenceb_> PaulFertser: there are instances that arent shutting down
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2024-02-28T12:42:45 < Laurenceb_> I don't get why they are quitting now - they went to war with Musk over the summer
2024-02-28T12:42:59 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: how are they going to work? X is really closing all they ways to scraping. And the nitter lead dev announced surrender it seems.
2024-02-28T12:43:11 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: now because all the tokens expired
2024-02-28T12:43:24 < Laurenceb_> ah ok
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2024-02-28T12:43:48 < Laurenceb_> I think they are using accounts on the still working instances
2024-02-28T12:44:01 < qyx> musked
2024-02-28T12:44:27 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1155#issuecomment-1913361757
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2024-02-28T12:45:33 < Laurenceb_> qyx: its annoying as loads of important stuff is only on twitter, e.g. my local busses only put service announcements on their twitter and cant read without account
2024-02-28T12:45:54 < Laurenceb_> f u Musk
2024-02-28T12:46:05 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: are they private busses?
2024-02-28T12:46:16 < Laurenceb_> no
2024-02-28T12:46:37 < Laurenceb_> yeah local gov are too incompetent to have an actual webshit
2024-02-28T12:46:53 < PaulFertser> Then fucking start filing complaints to authorities. You have all kinds of ombudsmen in the kingdom, isn't there one about public transportation?
2024-02-28T12:47:02 < Laurenceb_> prob yeah
2024-02-28T12:47:51 < Laurenceb_> ok enough shitposting, back to wurk
2024-02-28T12:48:47 < PaulFertser> I thought you're there for lulz, not for lame busses.
2024-02-28T12:49:40 < Laurenceb_> it would be ok if it was just a shitposting meme thing, but due to general incompetence its needed for actual work too
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2024-02-28T12:50:40 < qyx> ombussman
2024-02-28T12:50:51 < qyx> eaton
2024-02-28T12:51:25 < Steffanx> Ombudsman 
2024-02-28T12:51:44 < qyx> ikr
2024-02-28T12:52:43 < qyx> steff pls ombudsman for busses is ombussman
2024-02-28T12:53:08 < PaulFertser> Pun intended!
2024-02-28T12:53:32 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: is (electric) bike not a viable alternative?
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2024-02-28T13:15:06 < Steffanx> Yeah, I'm not fully on earth yet. And have bad eye sight, don't hate me, qyx.
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2024-02-28T16:35:51 < jbo> moin moin
2024-02-28T16:37:01 < jbo> PaulFertser, I completed the cleanup of the openocd port: https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/?id=70c2b83232415954356803e286ea2263f5e98c8d
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2024-02-28T17:58:59 < PaulFertser> jbo: Looking good, thank you! I sometimes use the "dummy" adapter. What adapters do not currently work on FreeBSD btw?
2024-02-28T18:09:56 < jbo> PaulFertser, thank you too!
2024-02-28T18:10:10 < jbo> PaulFertser, adding the dummy adapter is no problem. what is it typically used for?
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2024-02-28T18:11:26 < jbo> PaulFertser, currently not working:  jlink (I'd need to port the libjaylink library first); linuxgpiod (because it's not linux); xlnx_pcie_xvc (haven't investigated)
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2024-02-28T18:15:26 < PaulFertser> jbo: I just use it to test stuff when it's ok that adapter is jtag-only and only gives back zeros.
2024-02-28T18:16:13 < PaulFertser> jbo: jlink is essential, gpiod one is needed only to bitbang stuff, that xilinx is something tricky and xilinx specific.
2024-02-28T18:17:12 < jbo> PaulFertser, if people spend $$$ on a jlink I doubt they see openocd support as "essential". you'd mostly spend that kind of money to get the features that you'd not get if using openocd with it.
2024-02-28T18:18:29 < PaulFertser> jbo: jlink also comes as edu version, as 10$ clone version and as jlink ob (on-board) and you can even officially reflash stm32 disco boards stlink with jlink.
2024-02-28T18:18:49 < jbo> PaulFertser, fair point - understood!
2024-02-28T18:18:57 < jbo> PaulFertser, I'll look into porting libjaylink to freebsd.
2024-02-28T18:19:00 < PaulFertser> It's not at all uncommon to have jlink for an openocd user.
2024-02-28T18:19:11 < jbo> PaulFertser, that's good to know - thanks! :)
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2024-02-28T18:20:00 < jbo> PaulFertser, part of the reason why I'm telling you / talking to you :)
2024-02-28T18:20:05 < PaulFertser> The very popular nRF51 MCU basically assumed one has jlink even, with all debugging to be done over J-Link RTT protocol.
2024-02-28T18:20:29 < PaulFertser> With OpenOCD that RTT can be used now with any adapter :)
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2024-02-28T18:23:18 < jbo> PaulFertser, porting libjaylink to FreeBSD seems easy enough - I'll have a look
2024-02-28T18:23:49 < jbo> PaulFertser, upstream seems to claim to officially support FreeBSD & OpenBSD so this might be just as easy as creating the port (package) :)
2024-02-28T18:24:07 < PaulFertser> jbo: I hope, thank you for working on that :)
2024-02-28T18:24:24 < jbo> PaulFertser, I don't think you have to thank me for that given - especially given that you don't use FreeBSD :D
2024-02-28T18:26:51 < PaulFertser> jbo: I like diversity and having FreeBSD users actually use OpenOCD makes project better, more portable. And it's just good to be able to provide the functionality for the most popular "real UNIX" out there.
2024-02-28T18:27:45 < jbo> PaulFertser, are you actually working on upstream? because I'd really don't like the -Wno-error=
2024-02-28T18:27:53 < jbo> code smell...
2024-02-28T18:28:18 < jbo> specifically: -Wno-error=strict-prototypes -Wno-error=unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-error=unused-but-set-variable
2024-02-28T18:28:41 < jbo> PaulFertser, and thanks - I agree :)
2024-02-28T18:28:47 < PaulFertser> jbo: why not just run configure with --disable-werror ?
2024-02-28T18:29:16 < PaulFertser> jbo: I'm not really contributing to code anymore unfortunately, but I help with sysadmin tasks.
2024-02-28T18:29:16 < jbo> PaulFertser, because that is terrible?
2024-02-28T18:29:51 < jbo> QA and all that...
2024-02-28T18:30:14 < PaulFertser> jbo: it depends on the purpose. Good to have that on by default to get alerted of problems earlier. But annoying for end users and probably not worth bothering them when a released version is built.
2024-02-28T18:30:53 < jbo> the FreeBSD team disagrees :p
2024-02-28T18:32:29 < PaulFertser> jbo: every commit to master goes through clang static analysis and prior to merging every submission is built for several configurations and that should be warnings-free: https://build.openocd.org/job/openocd-gerrit-build/
2024-02-28T18:33:52 < PaulFertser> https://build.openocd.org/job/openocd-clang/scan-build_20Report/
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2024-02-28T18:36:22 < jbo> clang13
2024-02-28T18:36:23 < jbo> jup.
2024-02-28T18:36:24 < PaulFertser> jbo: sometimes when building older code with newer compilers new warnings appear.
2024-02-28T18:36:30 < jbo> exactly
2024-02-28T18:36:38 < jbo> hence we Werror everything by default
2024-02-28T18:36:42 < PaulFertser> So you're building a rather old by now version.
2024-02-28T18:36:58 < jbo> clang17
2024-02-28T18:37:08 < PaulFertser> I mean old OpenOCD
2024-02-28T18:37:23 < jbo> wait... wasn't 0.12 the latest release?
2024-02-28T18:37:28 < jbo> or you mean just "old code"?
2024-02-28T18:38:27 < PaulFertser> It's latest but old.
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2024-02-28T19:04:51 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCNtgMfnl8A
2024-02-28T19:27:55 < jpa-> qyx: i'm going to power on bq25756 + ganfets now
2024-02-28T19:30:54 < jbo> oh, jpa- also doing bq25756? :)
2024-02-28T19:31:01 < jpa-> hmm, it didn't explode yet.. but output voltage is wrong
2024-02-28T19:31:02 < jpa-> jbo: yeah
2024-02-28T19:31:07 < jpa-> it's popular now
2024-02-28T19:31:32 < jbo> jpa-, yeah I used it in a design the first time in October
2024-02-28T19:31:39 < qyx> jpa-: what
2024-02-28T19:31:59 < jpa-> jbo: but you went with boring mosfets, right?
2024-02-28T19:32:18 < jbo> jpa-, yes. boring is good.
2024-02-28T19:33:14 < qyx> you are quicker than a diarrhea
2024-02-28T19:33:29 < qyx> you startedlast week only
2024-02-28T19:34:01 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/bq25756.mp4   i took a video in case it would explode but it turned out pretty boring
2024-02-28T19:34:22 < jpa-> first hit 100 mA current limit on my PSU, then it powered up and gives out too much voltage
2024-02-28T19:34:27 < jpa-> maybe i have messed up the feedback
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2024-02-28T20:05:41 < qyx> is it a BEC of some sort?
2024-02-28T20:06:00 < qyx> or how do rc guys call those things
2024-02-28T20:06:33 < qyx> jpa-: how did you configure it?
2024-02-28T20:06:42 < qyx> oh feedback
2024-02-28T20:16:59 < jpa-> yeah, feedback was shorted (too much solder paste)
2024-02-28T20:17:06 < jpa-> fixed that and now i managed to burn something
2024-02-28T20:17:25 < jpa-> it worked fine up to 1W load.. target is 200W
2024-02-28T20:23:06 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/bq25756_giving_up_the_ghost.mp4   you can see its soul leaving
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2024-02-28T20:31:27 < qyx> 200 W with this? I would bet max 50
2024-02-28T20:32:30 < qyx> how did you manage to burn the actual controller, it shouldn't have any serious current flowing through it
2024-02-28T20:33:38 < jpa-> dunno yet, it wasn't even running hot
2024-02-28T20:33:50 < jpa-> maybe fet shorted to input
2024-02-28T20:34:49 < fenugrec> schem ?
2024-02-28T20:35:18 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/ebike_charger.pdf
2024-02-28T20:36:28 < qyx> but input was current limited,wasn't it?
2024-02-28T20:36:40 < fenugrec> bold
2024-02-28T20:37:01 < jpa-> well, current limited at 1A + bunch of capacitors, so enough to burn stuff
2024-02-28T20:37:17 < jpa-> but the FETs don't measure shorted now
2024-02-28T20:37:19 < fenugrec> 47k pullups on SCL/SDA ?
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2024-02-28T20:38:50 < jpa-> master will have its own, that's just to hold the lines steady if no master connected
2024-02-28T20:40:25 < fenugrec> a
2024-02-28T20:40:40 < qyx> I don't see anything specifically wrong
2024-02-28T20:41:09 < fenugrec> no ferrite / gate resistors ? maybe not necessary on that bq
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2024-02-28T20:42:23 < jpa-> who knows, the manufacturer says it won't work with ganfets ;)
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2024-02-28T20:52:40 < fenugrec> I'm about to reflow a tqfp128 with a big thermal pad, wish me luck
2024-02-28T20:57:27 < jpa-> just make sure you don't have too much paste on the thermal pad
2024-02-28T20:59:32 < qyx> jpa-: I would expect the GaNs to blow in the "no work" case, not the switcher
2024-02-28T21:01:51 < jpa-> how about both? :)
2024-02-28T21:02:03 < jpa-> maybe the GaNs are just more discreet about it
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2024-02-28T21:08:48 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bq25756_bondwires.jpg   seems it blew up near the VIN bondwires.. previously it was hottest in different corner, presumably the REGN LDO that's dissipating about 0.7W
2024-02-28T21:13:06 < qyx> how much voltage are you feeding?
2024-02-28T21:14:00 < jpa-> 30V in that test, 40V out
2024-02-28T21:14:17 < qyx> oh
2024-02-28T21:14:43 < qyx> 30 W max is capable of persuading things to smoke
2024-02-28T21:16:39 < jpa-> yeah, 0.2A was the largest peak current recorded but at slow samplerate, so could have been more
2024-02-28T21:16:51 < jpa-> the event was less than 10 ms
2024-02-28T21:17:35 < qyx> can you measure if any gate is shorted to ground/vin/vout?
2024-02-28T21:18:23 < jpa-> did, maybe i'll do again
2024-02-28T21:19:00 < qyx> if anything is shorted I would exoect GaNs
2024-02-28T21:19:13 < qyx> hey are pretty small
2024-02-28T21:22:13 < jpa-> no shorts to gnd.. i wonder, shouldn't i see some resistance between GaN source and gate?
2024-02-28T21:22:28 < jpa-> it shows >500kohm
2024-02-28T21:23:03 < qyx> I guess no, gate is a high impedance voltage input
2024-02-28T21:24:00 < jpa-> but GaNs have significant gate-source leakage
2024-02-28T21:26:01 < qyx> Designers should expect gate leakage on the order of 1 mA. 
2024-02-28T21:26:01 < qyx> uh
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2024-02-28T21:31:27 < jpa-> datasheet gives 10µA typical gate leakage at 5V, i'm getting 7µA, 12µA, 8µA, 16µA; so seems the GaN gates at least are not shorted and are within spec
2024-02-28T21:32:48 < jpa-> bootstrap diodes measure ok also
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2024-02-28T21:47:41 < fenugrec> did jpa just casually decap an IC to check failure mode
2024-02-28T21:49:46 < fenugrec> damn I heated the piss out of this IC and board to get it soldered. When it's colder than the surface of the sun I'll test it but... have doubts
2024-02-28T21:50:31 < fenugrec> ofc I could have tested a spare (dead) IC on a spare PCB, but that's what smart people do.
2024-02-28T21:59:45 < jpa-> fenugrec: yeah, in progress
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2024-02-28T22:53:32 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bq25756_decap.png (warning: 50MB png)  so, what does this mean?
2024-02-28T22:54:08 < jpa-> i think the squiggly bits are the path where fault current went
2024-02-28T22:54:19 < jpa-> i'll let you figure out the rest and read the answer in the morning.
2024-02-28T22:56:09 < jpa-> i wonder if Vin could somehow have spiked too high.. but considering i was feeding just 30V and max is 70V, that seems unlikely
2024-02-28T23:00:58 < qyx> what's the inductor L?
2024-02-28T23:01:17 < qyx> wow that's a big ass png
2024-02-28T23:01:43 < qyx> what did you use to decap it? just sanded off the epoxy?
2024-02-28T23:03:59 < qyx> now I am bit hesitant to use GaNs because I need the thing to work ideally on first try
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2024-02-28T23:17:28 < qyx> have you ever seen a vertical oled display, something like vertical 7-segment LED displays?
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2024-02-28T23:36:13 < qyx> nah I'll just use a second PCB with some smd leds
2024-02-28T23:37:23 < Steffanx> And some black pcb with tiny holes in front of it for so extra fanciness 
2024-02-28T23:38:12 < qyx> exactky
2024-02-28T23:38:34 < qyx> (alu panel)
2024-02-28T23:39:33 < Steffanx> like https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/H4Lvnpb9/1000018055.jpg
2024-02-28T23:40:09 < qyx> the hell is that
2024-02-28T23:40:20 < qyx> an iPod?
2024-02-28T23:43:44 < Steffanx> Some pump by Xiaomi or something 
2024-02-28T23:43:47 < Steffanx> Compressor 
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--- Day changed to helmi 29 2024
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2024-02-29T00:47:46 < qyx>  
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2024-02-29T08:32:40 < jpa-> qyx: sanded off as much i dared, then molten rosin to take off the rest
2024-02-29T09:02:08 < jpa-> qyx: inductor is https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/w%C3%BCrth-elektronik/74439358100/5353095
2024-02-29T09:02:40 < jpa-> to me it looks like it has burned in a large FET near the Vin area, probably the LDO input selection FET
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2024-02-29T10:05:06 < srk> noice
2024-02-29T10:05:31 < srk> kicad 8 is out btw
2024-02-29T10:12:10 < ventYl> kicad 5.1.9 (c) 1992-2020 KiCad Developers Team
2024-02-29T10:12:16 < ventYl> meh
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2024-02-29T10:40:51 < mawk> I added lormetazepam to my collection of sleeping pills
2024-02-29T10:41:06 < mawk> this one goes into the "break glass in case of emergency" category 
2024-02-29T10:41:14 < mawk> like if I haven't slept for 3 days
2024-02-29T10:41:52 < mawk> it's the last resort treatment for insomnia when every other medication failed
2024-02-29T10:46:23 < PaulFertser> So another benzo but hopefully with less amnesia effect but still nasty :/
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2024-02-29T10:52:49 < mawk> I have exactly 1 pill of it PaulFertser 
2024-02-29T10:52:57 < mawk> my daily driver is promethazine, an antihistaminic 
2024-02-29T10:52:59 < mawk> not a benzo
2024-02-29T10:53:25 < mawk> I'd be the biggest idiot to pick up a benzo habit on top of a maxxed out opioid addiction that few humans attained before
2024-02-29T10:53:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: glad to hear that.
2024-02-29T10:53:47 < PaulFertser> Yes, obviously that would be one of the most dangerous combinations.
2024-02-29T10:54:32 < mawk> so the promethazine for everyday, and if I still don't sleep the next day then a little valium or brotizolam, and if I still haven't slept and it's the third day I'll consider the lormetazepam
2024-02-29T10:54:43 < mawk> well it's dangerous when you don't have a full habit yet
2024-02-29T10:54:59 < mawk> it probably wouldn't be as dangerous for me
2024-02-29T10:55:05 < mawk> but still quite a bit deadly 
2024-02-29T10:55:53 < mawk> it's like if you took even a tenth of the methadone dose I can take, you can kill ten children, or one adult (if not overweight)
2024-02-29T10:56:00 < mawk> but I don't die
2024-02-29T10:56:09 < mawk> because I'm immortal^Whabituated
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2024-02-29T11:02:46 < jpa-> hmm, replaced chip, powered up without load, it broke very quickly
2024-02-29T11:02:48 < PaulFertser> I'm afraid even access to consistently clean (same amount of active substance) opioid and benzo still doesn't guarantee the user won't fall asleep "too deep" one day, as the body response might still vary and user error is a real possibility too.
2024-02-29T11:04:26 < zyp> jpa-, got a schematic?
2024-02-29T11:04:41 < PaulFertser> zyp: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/ebike_charger.pdf
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2024-02-29T11:12:08 < zyp> what voltage are you testing at?
2024-02-29T11:13:51 < PaulFertser> It was this yesterday: 22:14 < jpa-> 30V in that test, 40V out
2024-02-29T11:20:34 < jpa-> yeah
2024-02-29T11:21:12 < jpa-> i have a feeling that i'm getting some input voltage spiking for some reason, but didn't have time to measure it
2024-02-29T11:21:17 < zyp> «very quickly» on what scale? minutes? seconds? milliseconds?
2024-02-29T11:21:53 < zyp> and yeah, I'd also be suspicious of your supply
2024-02-29T11:22:30 < jpa-> seconds
2024-02-29T11:23:08 < jpa-> first chip worked for more than half an hour, and only broke when i increased load to 4 watts
2024-02-29T11:23:52 < jpa-> symptoms afterwards are identical to first case, it just takes no power and REGN stays at 0V
2024-02-29T11:25:25 < zyp> I once killed a board by hooking it up to a supply that didn't have very good load regulation, had a step up in current draw and the supply overshot and blew up stuff on my board
2024-02-29T11:26:13 < jpa-> on the other hand, absmax is 85V so it would have to spike a lot
2024-02-29T11:26:39 < jpa-> should probably add a TVS next time
2024-02-29T11:26:55 < jpa-> i'm going to decap this and see if it looks the same
2024-02-29T11:27:26 < zyp> you've got quite a lot of capacitance on the input though, you'd think that'd eat transients
2024-02-29T11:28:59 < jpa-> it does recommend 160µF though, but i have a smaller target current than the example design
2024-02-29T11:29:54 < jpa-> this time i got some pulsing of the power supply current limit (300mA) right before it broke
2024-02-29T11:30:19 < zyp> despite not loading anything?
2024-02-29T11:30:56 < zyp> 300mA at 30V is 9W going *somewhere*
2024-02-29T11:31:09 < jpa-> yeah - but also on first chip i got a spike reading of 200+ mA input current right before it broke
2024-02-29T11:31:21 < jpa-> it's probably going to the vaporized trace on the chip..
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2024-02-29T12:27:47 < Steffanx> oxazepam was pretty helpful to sleep before and be relaxed during my surgery mawk, but it's probably nothing compared to the shit you take 😜
2024-02-29T12:28:10 < Steffanx> It's probably candy for you
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2024-02-29T13:36:34 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that's benzo too. While brotizolam is "just" an "analog".
2024-02-29T13:39:18 < PaulFertser> For me mirtazapine works very nicely for the first few times.
2024-02-29T13:39:33 < jpa-> hmm, the second chip shows damage both near VIN and near SRN pins.. interestingly those are the two inputs to the LDO
2024-02-29T13:41:06 < Steffanx> You just use standard diy sandpaper and stuff to decap, jpa- 
2024-02-29T13:41:08 < Steffanx> ?
2024-02-29T13:53:49 < Steffanx> And did you boil the part in rosin or... Something else?
2024-02-29T13:54:58 < Steffanx> I'm just glad I don't use any of this on a regular basis, PaulFertser
2024-02-29T13:58:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: indeed, that's no fun at all. Though after few months on (some relatively mild) meds I felt confident enough to ride a motor bike to job place in the mornings.
2024-02-29T14:30:35 < jpa-> Steffanx: sandpaper yeah, and used heated rosin but it wasn't particularly quick
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2024-02-29T14:52:10 < fenugrec> good morning ##substanceabuse32
2024-02-29T14:53:58 < fenugrec> jpa not super familiar with that topology, does that inductor hold enough energy that if it spikes back in to Vin and you have insufficient capacitance / too high ESR it can make Vin surge up to what is admittedly a very high 85V max
2024-02-29T14:54:20 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2024-02-29T14:54:29 < PaulFertser> Where're the thin lines between recreation, medication and abuse?.. I had a beer in the middle of a work day, but is it really an abuse?
2024-02-29T14:55:26 < jpa-> fenugrec: no, it doesn't seem so; in my calculators spiking the voltage above absmax would require about 100x more energy than the inductor will hold at its saturation current
2024-02-29T14:55:58 < fenugrec> PaulFertser beer@work is totally ok in .eu territories I believe
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2024-02-29T14:57:12 < fenugrec> jpa- yea I thought so. What does evalboard look like for this IC ?
2024-02-29T14:57:59 < jpa-> big and square, with lots and lots of caps
2024-02-29T14:58:41 < jpa-> they have 3x 56µF, i have 2x 22µF per rail
2024-02-29T15:00:13 < fenugrec> ESL is probably more critical than capacitance or ESR though. Unless you're running MLCC caps near their rated voltage ?
2024-02-29T15:12:43 < fenugrec> yey, board still works after replacing cpu yesterday https://filebin.net/k4uzh4xbbql1vh4e/u27_replaced.jpg
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2024-02-29T16:28:25 < nomorekaki> opinions about 121GW?
2024-02-29T16:28:40 < nomorekaki> 15V diode testings sounds useful
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2024-02-29T17:19:59 < qyx> heated rosin? never heard about that
2024-02-29T17:22:50 < jpa-> it's supposed to dissolve the plastic, but didn't seem very effective so i had to scrub a lot
2024-02-29T17:26:34 < qyx> just reading eevblag about it and they are complaining too
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2024-02-29T17:27:15 < qyx> so you have blown two BQs?
2024-02-29T17:40:51 < jpa-> yes
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2024-02-29T17:41:56 < jpa-> one had blown metal trace near VIN pin, other has identical blown metal trace near VIN and a blown trace near SRN
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2024-02-29T17:44:34 < jpa-> i have four other projects that i need to blow up and then i'll order more parts
2024-02-29T17:47:11 < qyx> thats indeed very interestig
2024-02-29T17:47:29 < qyx> probably no overcurrent on the internal LDO?
2024-02-29T17:47:42 < qyx> maybe try with 5 V or so next?
2024-02-29T17:47:55 < qyx> or 6-7 to let the LDO do its job
2024-02-29T17:48:03 < qyx> is the freq set ok?
2024-02-29T17:49:15 < jpa-> yes, freq was 500 kHz during switching, though it was doing PFM at surprisingly low freq (70 Hz) and high ripple (over a volt)
2024-02-29T17:49:37 < jpa-> i think next time i'll try the external DRVSUP feed
2024-02-29T17:49:56 < jpa-> i did calculate beforehand that the load on the LDO is getting close to max
2024-02-29T18:14:27 < qyx> such high voltage switchers, and mainly those having I2C bus for control, should have an auxiliary buck converter to feed 5 V for them alone + any external components
2024-02-29T18:14:58 < qyx> I can't see any reasonable usage with such voltages when you don't need any additional smps to feed the MCU and other things
2024-02-29T18:23:08 < jpa-> this doesn't actually need i2c control to be fully usable
2024-02-29T18:32:30 < qyx> yeah but
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2024-02-29T21:30:25 < Steffanx> karlp / nomorekaki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2wY0DjYGo 12 points?
2024-02-29T21:30:49  * qyx @ Melodic Techno & Progressive House Mix 2023
2024-02-29T21:30:58 < qyx> no metal today
2024-02-29T21:31:05 < qyx> no squeaky singing today
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2024-02-29T21:32:41 < Laurenceb_> lollllll
2024-02-29T21:32:51 < Laurenceb_> >emdrive cubesat suffered a power failure
2024-02-29T21:33:02 < Laurenceb_> cool story bro
2024-02-29T21:33:26 < qyx> IM-1 too
2024-02-29T21:55:12 < specing> Laurenceb_: it tried to enter warp without a dilithium crystal??
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2024-02-29T22:41:16 < qyx> hm I was running at 220 V the whole winter
2024-02-29T22:41:26 < qyx> why the hell is the inverter set to 220
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2024-02-29T23:18:47 < Ecco> Fucking USB-C is such a joke
2024-02-29T23:18:56 < Ecco> I'm trying to connect a Nintendo Switch to a MacBook
2024-02-29T23:19:00 < Ecco> I'm using a USB-C cable
2024-02-29T23:19:16 < Ecco> for some reason, after a few seconds, the Switch disconnects
2024-02-29T23:19:22 < Ecco> I have *no idea* what's going on
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2024-02-29T23:26:30 < Ecco> And of course
2024-02-29T23:26:41 < Ecco> using a USB-C to USB-A, and then a USB-A to USB-C cable fixes it :-/
2024-02-29T23:26:53 < Ecco> (And no, my USB-C to USB-C cable is not defective)
2024-02-29T23:26:58 < Ecco> (I'm not the only one having this problem)
2024-02-29T23:26:59 < Ecco> https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchPirates/comments/133o43o/nintendo_switch_connected_via_usb_c_on_mac_m1/
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2024-02-29T23:48:44 < karlp> qyx: he's poking fun at all the different job titles kristin (and another guy at the weather office) hae when they give interviews.
2024-02-29T23:48:54 < karlp> that long list are all different job title.s
2024-02-29T23:50:57 < qyx> oh lol
2024-02-29T23:51:15 < karlp> jbo: I use jlink with openocd all the time, because a) jlink sw is crap, and b) work bought the jlinks, so that's just the hardward I have.
2024-02-29T23:51:25 < karlp> also, often dev boards have jlink-ob on them.
2024-02-29T23:51:43 < qyx> yeah jlink-ob was ok with openocd
--- Log closed pe maalis 01 00:00:55 2024