--- Log opened pe maalis 01 00:00:55 2024
2024-03-01T00:00:58 < qyx> wut are those panels https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/PowerFilm/SP3-37?qs=BJlw7L4Cy7%252B4DrOd%252Bi%252B20Q%3D%3D
2024-03-01T00:04:59 < Steffanx> Idk. What are they?
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2024-03-01T00:07:09 < qyx> they look like those on cubesats
2024-03-01T00:12:29 < karlp> Ecco: try flipping one end ofthe c-c cable....
2024-03-01T00:12:33 < karlp> (I'm serious)
2024-03-01T00:14:53 < qyx> :>
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2024-03-01T00:23:14 < qyx> hm they could work with BQ25504
2024-03-01T00:25:46 < qyx> the sample application uses 4M42, 15M62, 4M02, 5M9, 5M6, 4M22, 1M43 resistors
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2024-03-01T00:45:31 < qyx> ANNA-B412 modules are pre-flashed with u-connectXpress software and delivered with the u-blox
2024-03-01T00:45:34 < qyx> secure bootloader.
2024-03-01T00:45:40 < qyx> anyone used that thing?
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2024-03-01T00:58:24 < Laurenceb_> keeekk wtf https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/a-photo-of-a-robotic-shark.png?id=30121146&width=992&quality=85
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2024-03-01T02:50:14 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or76qIUqeVo musics
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2024-03-01T06:09:53 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a "tiny" version of the terminal connector?
2024-03-01T06:10:57 < ColdKeyboard> Screw terminal might be bulky because of the screw. But is there some version that is tiny (ie. relatively comparable to 2.54mm connector) and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg? :)
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2024-03-01T09:08:51 < kskd> #debian12
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2024-03-01T09:36:00 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: spring terminal?
2024-03-01T09:36:06 < jpa-> they are usually 2.54mm pitch
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2024-03-01T13:55:23 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: there is harting flexicon, pluggable and fixed terminal blocks with 2.54 mm pitch but they don't satisfy your second requirement
2024-03-01T13:55:43 < qyx> also some spring terminal blocks are available with 2.54 pitch
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2024-03-01T22:45:54 < Laurenceb_> orbital sides https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/uae-luxury-18-million-superbus-18433
2024-03-01T22:46:39 < Laurenceb_> wuuttttt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superbus_(transport)#/media/File:Superbus-II.JPG
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2024-03-01T23:13:06 < josuah> benishor: hello! Sorry for bringing that out of the blue... but were you working on an STM32-based HF radio before?
2024-03-01T23:13:28 < josuah> I remember something using a sound card to generate low-IF and an STM32 plotting the FFT for it on a display
2024-03-01T23:23:25 < qyx> I remember drawing a HF receiver with stm32 once and I have never sent it to a pcb fab
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--- Day changed la maalis 02 2024
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2024-03-02T00:46:09 < qyx> do I understand that correctly I may send arbitrary data with a GATT characteristic?
2024-03-02T00:46:16 < qyx> once in 50 ms or so?
2024-03-02T00:46:31 < qyx> only one payload is buffered max?
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2024-03-02T01:00:27 < Steffanx> Yes, yes, No. You can send multiple packets per connection event.
2024-03-02T01:03:01 < Steffanx> Depends a little on your definition of "buffered" though and where it's "buffered"
2024-03-02T01:04:31 < qyx> idk I have an ANNA-B412 from ublox
2024-03-02T01:04:58 < Steffanx> It also depends on the stack ofcourse. 
2024-03-02T01:05:07 < qyx> and reading the at command spec it looks like I can create a characteristic proactively and then it can be read by the client
2024-03-02T01:05:30 < qyx> and then I can change the characteristic to use different data, the client can read it again
2024-03-02T01:05:49 < qyx> OR I may define a zero-length data and then when a read request occurs it emits some URC code
2024-03-02T01:05:56 < qyx> and I may respond to it with arbitrary data
2024-03-02T01:06:10 < qyx> now idk if only once per 50 ms or the client can request reading faster
2024-03-02T01:06:21 < qyx> and I get URC more often
2024-03-02T01:07:24 < qyx> I guess I need to get a capable usb ble thing to test that
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2024-03-02T01:24:30 < Steffanx> No notifications? Server has notification, client subscribes, server sends updates to client. 
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2024-03-02T01:31:44 < Steffanx> But that would be too easy and fun. And AT is never easy and fun.
2024-03-02T01:32:16 < josuah> qyx: nice! The Lab599 TX-500 uses an STM32F407: https://downloads.lab599.com/TX500/Discovery-TX500-Block-Diagram.pdf
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2024-03-02T01:38:02 < qyx> AT should have been dead for 30 years at least
2024-03-02T01:38:43 < qyx> time for nordic musiks
2024-03-02T01:39:38 < qyx> just for Steffanx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfrzqGKF5IA
2024-03-02T01:40:15 < qyx> you can jump directly to 3:50 if too boring
2024-03-02T01:40:15 < Steffanx> Such peaceful music, are you alright qyx?
2024-03-02T01:41:42 < Steffanx> I know Thomas, qyx. Hes in my playlist multiple times.
2024-03-02T01:42:02 < qyx> oh great
2024-03-02T01:42:17 < qyx> I can't say I have listened all his creations, there are hundreds
2024-03-02T01:42:28 < qyx> but I did listen a low
2024-03-02T01:42:30 < qyx> *lot
2024-03-02T01:50:55 < Steffanx> Thats not your usual musics..
2024-03-02T01:53:29 < qyx> don't judge! there were times I listened to teenage punk rock, indie, trance&dance&house, folk, country, psytrance, linkin park and stuff, ost music
2024-03-02T01:53:58 < qyx> there was a long postrock era
2024-03-02T01:54:07 < qyx> and metal era, of course
2024-03-02T01:54:35 < qyx> oh I listened to Era too
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2024-03-02T01:57:57 < Steffanx> Heh. I'm not judging. I listen to pretty much anything 
2024-03-02T01:58:36 < Steffanx> And then decide without a few moments whether or not I want to listen to a song again
2024-03-02T01:59:43 < qyx> k switched to bagpipes and started another PCB
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2024-03-02T03:29:37 < qyx> and what about web bluetooth Steffanx?
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2024-03-02T06:10:23 < josuah> Web bluetooth is a much Google Chrome think it seems
2024-03-02T06:10:47 < josuah> s/think/thing/ - like all Web* except a WebRTC which every browser has
2024-03-02T06:11:05 < josuah> WebUSB, WebASM, WebDocker (wait for it! :P)
2024-03-02T06:12:05 < josuah> WebGCC and WebMOSFET when? :]
2024-03-02T06:13:05 < josuah> Well, WebBluetooth is actually quite well maintained as long as you have a recent Chrome.
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2024-03-02T12:24:06 < Steffanx> What Joshua said, qyx
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2024-03-02T12:31:46 < qyx> that's sad
2024-03-02T12:31:52 < qyx> I don't even have it
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2024-03-02T14:05:25 < kre10s> \q
2024-03-02T14:09:25 < kre10s> I have a question about libusb the tiny USB library and usb in general. If on a linux host I do a libusb_bulk_transfer, how can I know how many bytes have arrived when the callback fires in the MCU? and will transfers automatically get segmented into endpoint size chunks?
2024-03-02T14:19:13 < jpa-> yes, the PC side hardware will automatically split bulk transfer into packets
2024-03-02T14:21:58 < jpa-> i think the tinyusb callbacks are something like     bool data_cb(void *data, size_t len, bool transfer_complete)
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2024-03-02T14:48:00 < kre10s> when you say "transfer complete" you mean the last USB packet is marked appropriately? I'm using the vendor class and I only see length and data... 
2024-03-02T14:50:52 < kre10s> I should be able to use a transfer complete signal to do framing right?
2024-03-02T15:02:11 < kre10s> I see that the tud_vendor_rx_cb is called whenever there is new data. So it is not possible to reconstruct the "transfers" that were made.
2024-03-02T15:04:07 < kre10s> both for libusb and tiny usb the transfers go through a fifo with automatic flush at ep size. I'm wondering what the best strategy for protocol synchronization is
2024-03-02T15:08:16 < jpa-> kre10s: you may want to link to whatever you are actually using
2024-03-02T15:08:51 < jpa-> but bulk endpoints are generally just a stream of data, there is no direct way to separate where one message starts and other ends
2024-03-02T15:09:15 < jpa-> some protocols use STALL or less than full size packet as delimiter
2024-03-02T15:09:32 < jpa-> others start commands with a control transfer that specifies the size of following bulk transfer
2024-03-02T15:09:53 < jpa-> and some just embed some delimiting info inside the bulk stream
2024-03-02T15:15:28 < kre10s> less than full packet. nice.
2024-03-02T15:16:24 < kre10s> I just hope theres no condition where tinyusb might merge two less than full packets.
2024-03-02T15:24:10 < jpa-> you have the code, read it and you'll know
2024-03-02T15:25:08 < jpa-> worth noting if your target platforms include windows, WinUSB is a bit weird in how it does bulk transfers and there are transfer size limitations if you want best performance
2024-03-02T15:35:20 < karlp> ColdKeybo[a]rd: europlug comes in 2.5mm pitch, and there's cheap china versions: https://www.lcsc.com/products/Pluggable-System-Terminal-Block_11071.html (pick 2.5 and 2.54mm and order by price)
2024-03-02T15:36:24 < qyx> is it really called europlug?
2024-03-02T15:48:40 < karlp> probably not, but I've heared it called that a lot.
2024-03-02T15:49:07 < karlp> https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/connectors/terminal-blocks-strips/modular-terminal-blocks/intersection/eurostyle-terminal-blocks.html
2024-03-02T15:49:10  * karlp shrugs
2024-03-02T15:52:38 < qyx> oh I know why my 63 A solar fuses haven't blown up yet with 40+40 A
2024-03-02T15:52:44 < qyx> because they are 80 A!
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2024-03-02T16:14:54 < qyx> I just did a power outage
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2024-03-02T17:03:10 < karlp> bleh, got the P1 interface on my meter opened up, so pulled out my wch582 bluetooth project again that conencts to it, and none of the versions of toolchains talk to my debugger anymore.
2024-03-02T17:03:17 < karlp> should jhve just used esp32...
2024-03-02T17:05:55 < qyx> are you already back?
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2024-03-02T18:13:57 < kre10s> Can I use a timer to trigger DMA and periodically set an output high/low? like arbitrary waveform...
2024-03-02T18:14:39 < jpa-> if you are on a device that can do DMA transfers to GPIO registers
2024-03-02T18:14:51 < jpa-> most STM32 devices can, but some of the Cortex M0+ based ones cannot
2024-03-02T18:15:04 < jpa-> you can check it by looking at the system bus diagram in reference manual
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2024-03-02T18:15:57 < kre10s> The trusty f103 has an M3 :)
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2024-03-02T18:16:24 < kre10s> in the bus diagram I just see the Timers and ADC/DAC listed. I gues that means they can be sources.
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2024-03-02T18:16:42 < jpa-> sure, F103 can do DMA to GPIO
2024-03-02T18:17:37 < kre10s> If I to memory to memory i shouldn't even need a timer right?
2024-03-02T18:17:59 < jpa-> yes, but then the data rate will vary based on other data transfers
2024-03-02T18:19:30 < kre10s> good point.
2024-03-02T18:24:47 < kre10s> I'll use the GPIOx_BSRR so that I can set a specific IO without setting any others :D
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2024-03-02T18:53:12 < jbo> PaulFertser, looks like a new release of openocd is about to happen
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2024-03-02T19:40:42 < karlp> qyx: was only 8 nights holiday.
2024-03-02T20:27:09 < PaulFertser> jbo: why?
2024-03-02T20:28:14 < jbo> PaulFertser, somebody is drafting a release on GH: https://github.com/openocd-org/openocd/releases/tag/latest
2024-03-02T20:28:45 < PaulFertser> jbo: nah, that's just autobuilding master HEAD
2024-03-02T20:28:53 < jbo> aye
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2024-03-02T23:06:44 < karlp> ok, voted for the "best" now I can stop watching eurovision selection competition.
2024-03-02T23:07:06 < PaulFertser> Were you forced to before?
2024-03-02T23:07:54 < PaulFertser> Do you ever listen to that kind of music over the year or just during the eurovision time?
2024-03-02T23:09:51 < PaulFertser> Imagine Black Sabbath on EuroVision...
2024-03-02T23:33:35 < Steffanx> Could totally happen nowadays PaulFertser. Since its no longer "that kind of music".
2024-03-02T23:36:42 < PaulFertser> Lordi was fake
2024-03-02T23:46:08 < qyx> I just found an anti-steff music which I really hate too
2024-03-02T23:46:53 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK8mw2X-4ug
2024-03-02T23:46:55 < qyx> the hell is that
2024-03-02T23:57:07 < Steffanx> Lol this is absolutely anti-me. 😅
--- Day changed su maalis 03 2024
2024-03-03T00:02:23 < PaulFertser> Why people do not listen to hard rock classics more often?
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2024-03-03T00:03:59 < qyx> bon jovi?
2024-03-03T00:05:34 < PaulFertser> Not sure if that qualifies as hard rock. I mean bands of the past like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath.
2024-03-03T00:06:41 < PaulFertser> Deep Purple
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2024-03-03T00:24:44 < qyx> wut kicad is so expensive, I won't get a tshirt until I pay $60
2024-03-03T00:26:25 < Steffanx> 60? It's like 21 euro in zhe store
2024-03-03T00:28:42 < Steffanx> Oh their donation T-shirt is more fancy
2024-03-03T00:31:16 < qyx> Elon Musk sues OpenAI over its relationship with Microsoft
2024-03-03T00:31:36 < qyx> ..is not just developing but is refining an AGI to maximize profits for Microsoft, rather than for the benefit of humanity," [Musk] said in the lawsuit filed on Thursday in San Francisco Superior Cour
2024-03-03T00:31:44 < qyx> orbital sides
2024-03-03T00:31:52 < qyx> (r)
2024-03-03T00:38:52 < Steffanx> Blaxter is that you?
2024-03-03T00:50:46 -!- IanW [~IceChat9@arcanum.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye]
2024-03-03T01:02:24 < qyx> not yet
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2024-03-03T04:08:55  * qyx using TPS709 instead of TPS706 for the first time
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2024-03-03T04:12:51 < qyx> now I need the classic AC-adaptor-or-battery circuit
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2024-03-03T09:33:13 < antto> Q: single-row SWD connector, 1x8 (with optional UART TXD on pin7, and even more optional UART RXD on pin8) .... would you use a FPC/FFC cable for this?
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2024-03-03T09:47:29 < Steffanx> Do you like pain, antto ?
2024-03-03T09:52:09 < antto> no
2024-03-03T09:52:41 < antto> what's the pain?
2024-03-03T09:53:57 < antto> the other option is to solder 8 cables onto a 1x8 1.27mm pitch header, i've done that once, it wasn't fun
2024-03-03T09:54:29 < antto> hm, twice actually
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2024-03-03T10:09:03 < qyx> no I would use 5x2 pin
2024-03-03T10:11:35 < antto> i wanted single row, because i'd like to have "optional" signals at one end
2024-03-03T10:12:15 < antto> if a board doesn't have them - it could use a connector that doesn't even have those pins, and the debugger would still connect fine
2024-03-03T10:13:40 < antto> i currently use the STDC-14 here, the connector is quite big
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2024-03-03T10:49:33 < antto> what would be the problem with FPC/FFC?
2024-03-03T10:49:43 < antto> i thought innovation is highly praised here
2024-03-03T10:51:52 < antto> oh, look what i found: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001407779138.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%21%E2%82%AC%2017%2C94%21%E2%82%AC%2017%2C94%21%21%2118.96%2118.96%21%40211b61a417094544639207839e3841%2112000015965144514%21sh%21BG%210%21&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007550822701.1005001407779138
2024-03-03T10:52:26 < antto> (USB high-speed daplink)
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2024-03-03T11:15:09 < Steffanx> The connectors suck antto. Fine for using once or twice though. But if you do that why not use test points and AliExpress clip thingy with pogo pins
2024-03-03T11:15:24 < Steffanx> Or tag connect 😝
2024-03-03T11:15:59 < antto> the tag-connect thing sounds great.... for mass production maybe
2024-03-03T11:16:24 < antto> but for the long time of developement, are you gonna hold the cable with one hand?
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2024-03-03T11:31:54 < jpa-> antto: there is the clip you put on the other side
2024-03-03T11:32:10 < antto> i read that it breaks off
2024-03-03T11:32:15 < jpa-> it is a 5x8mm thingy that you'll lose immediately
2024-03-03T11:32:21 < jpa-> and costs like 10 EUR
2024-03-03T11:32:51 < kre10s> whatever happened to 2x5 fci connector ?
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2024-03-03T11:34:21 < kre10s> it is smd and super small. for development, solder the connector. for production just probe the pads.
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2024-03-03T11:34:56 < kre10s> when your cable side connector wears out just replace it.
2024-03-03T11:38:33 < antto> kre10s, if you mean the standard 2x5 SWD - i don't want that, i wanna have an optional UART on the same cable, thus i currently use STDC-14 (which is basically 2x7 where the middle 2x5 is standard SWD and two pairs of pins on the side are for NC and a UART
2024-03-03T11:38:36 < qyx> pros use printf antto 
2024-03-03T11:38:52 < antto> but STDC-14 is kinda big too and not single row
2024-03-03T11:39:14 < qyx> if you want uart for debug output, there is swo
2024-03-03T11:39:23 < antto> qyx, i use echo <<
2024-03-03T11:39:35 < antto> not on all chips
2024-03-03T11:40:04 < antto> and on some i want fullduplex
2024-03-03T11:40:39 < antto> basically, i wanna have a small, single-row SWD+UART connector for everything from the small and dumb boards to the more complex boards
2024-03-03T11:40:50 < qyx> I simply wouldn't anything else than the standard one
2024-03-03T11:41:03 < qyx> if the device might be used by someone else
2024-03-03T11:41:13 < qyx> innovation is not desired in this case
2024-03-03T11:41:19 < qyx> *use
2024-03-03T11:41:29 < antto> would you put STDC-14 then?
2024-03-03T11:42:00 < qyx> if you insist on the uart, yes
2024-03-03T11:42:37 < antto> great, but it's even bigger than the normal 2x5 SWD
2024-03-03T11:44:45 < qyx> yes because it is 2x7
2024-03-03T11:46:19 < antto> at job i use this pinout, with TXD and RXD as optionals on pin 7 and 8: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I5jQd7-ZfCA/VzWUgpY6E4I/AAAAAAAAAjg/gNTb2ECB2qYWWm2X11dBsUBrVAe2bKJ6gCKgB/s1600/stl3.png
2024-03-03T11:46:34 < antto> with a 1x8 connector, 1.27mm pitch
2024-03-03T11:46:47 < qyx> I would fire you
2024-03-03T11:46:57 < qyx> even siemens uses 2x5 on their devices
2024-03-03T11:47:14 < qyx> and not tag connect nor anything custom
2024-03-03T11:47:31 < antto> >:/
2024-03-03T11:48:42 < antto> so non-standard connectors aren't tolerated here for SWD?
2024-03-03T11:49:05 < antto> is that why you said no to the FPC/FFC idea, or is there some other reasons too?
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2024-03-03T12:00:18 < Steffanx> Siemens is THE great example of engineering?
2024-03-03T12:00:45 < antto> qyx, on target board where space isn't a problem - i could always put both a standard 2x5 SWD and my custom connectors
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2024-03-03T12:01:37 < antto> but i wanna have a single-row cable for myself at home, i'll make one adapter PCB for the debugger, stick it on, and forget
2024-03-03T12:01:54 < antto> i mean leave it there permanently, with a cable coming out
2024-03-03T12:02:26 < antto> i've seen very small FPC connectors
2024-03-03T12:03:57 < jpa-> i hate how the 2x5 ARM connector pinout doesn't have UART
2024-03-03T12:04:12 < antto> exactly
2024-03-03T12:04:18 < jpa-> it would fit there perfectly fine
2024-03-03T12:05:01 < Steffanx> I want it to be I2C
2024-03-03T12:05:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, that's not ok
2024-03-03T12:05:43 < Steffanx> I3C for the newer stm32s
2024-03-03T12:06:37 < antto> this is my current adapter (the white board on the right): https://i.imgur.com/BPHhvhm.jpg
2024-03-03T12:07:15 < antto> (my debugger comes with a 2x10 JTAG socket)
2024-03-03T12:07:37 < qyx> Steffanx: no, the opposite and even they use it
2024-03-03T12:08:55 < qyx> but tbh their PCBs don't look that bad
2024-03-03T12:09:26 < qyx> their software was sh.t though
2024-03-03T12:10:50 < Steffanx> Clone this antto https://www.tag-connect.com/product-category/products/edge-connect
2024-03-03T12:11:46 < antto> https://github.com/turingbirds/con-pcb-slot?tab=readme-ov-file
2024-03-03T12:12:39 < antto> but i can't or don't want to put the SWD always on the edge of a board, sometimes it's gonna be in the middle somewhere
2024-03-03T12:14:30 < Steffanx> Just go with ffc/fpc rip the cable out of the connector a few times, bend it in ways it shouldn't and have fun 😜
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2024-03-03T12:19:02 < Steffanx> ventTYl didn't survive qyx's positivity about Siemens.
2024-03-03T12:19:47 < antto> at $job my collegue tripped twice in a connected debugger+target
2024-03-03T12:21:09 < antto> i have the 1x8 1.27mm pitch THT socket on the target, and the debugger has a cable with headers which weren't fun to solder
2024-03-03T12:21:40 < antto> but i don't wanna make that kind of cable again
2024-03-03T12:21:45 < antto> thus i was thinking of FPC
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2024-03-03T12:24:20 < antto> Steffanx, that thing is uber expensive, but also you'll need castelated vias on your board, which makes it expensive too if you didn't need those otherwise
2024-03-03T12:26:15 < Steffanx> True
2024-03-03T12:27:13 < antto> i only speak the truth
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2024-03-03T12:32:53 < qyx> when I see tag connect's web..
2024-03-03T12:34:28 < Steffanx> 1999 called?
2024-03-03T12:37:47 < qyx> idk I didn't have internet in 1999
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2024-03-03T12:42:08 < antto> i think maybe in 1999 i was carrying floppy diskettes from the PC club to $home and back several times
2024-03-03T12:42:17 < qyx> yeah
2024-03-03T12:42:35 < qyx> downloading interwebs to read home
2024-03-03T12:42:48 < antto> with a segmented .rar containing WorldCraft.exe
2024-03-03T12:44:04 < qyx> I wasn't playing games, I borrowed "learn qbasic" from the library
2024-03-03T12:44:18 < qyx> and I "borrowed" qbasic from school
2024-03-03T12:45:16 < antto> WorldCraft is what was later renamed to HammerEditor, it's a 3D CAD sort of for making maps for half-life/cstrike/etc..
2024-03-03T12:47:21 < qyx> Steffanx: no ventyl is redoing the main power panel :>
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2024-03-03T17:12:38 < karlp> antto: consider rtt or swo instead of adding pins on the end for a uart...
2024-03-03T17:25:18 < antto> rtt?
2024-03-03T17:29:09 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@44.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2024-03-03T17:29:12 < Laurenceb_> keeek wtf
2024-03-03T17:29:18 -!- ferdna_ [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2024-03-03T17:29:22 < Laurenceb_> just hear the Rishi emergency speech
2024-03-03T17:29:31 < Laurenceb_> not sure if irl brasseye or reality
2024-03-03T17:31:41 < antto> o hai mr Kekrence
2024-03-03T17:31:47 < specing> What's the emergency? elections coming?
2024-03-03T17:35:11 < Laurenceb_> Mr MOATS from youtube got elected
2024-03-03T17:35:33 < Steffanx> I was wondering what Laurenceb_ meant so i openened bbc.com. Then i read "Can skiing solve its diversity problem?"  and closed the tab.
2024-03-03T17:35:43 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2024-03-03T17:48:41 < specing> lool
2024-03-03T17:58:02 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVTnavf3QI4 1998 nagano problems solved
2024-03-03T17:58:09 < nomorekaki> trained by finns
2024-03-03T18:04:57 < Steffanx> See, there is no "problem" 
2024-03-03T18:28:57 < antto> karlp, so this RTT thing basically is.. you sacrifice a chunk of RAM and you put a completely made-up thing (made-up by segger, it has nothing to do with ARM etc..) and basically the debugger has to periodically monitor that chunk of RAM to understand if there's data or not?
2024-03-03T18:29:54 < antto> if that's it, then that's cool and possibly an option for one of my projects where i have zero spare pins on the MCU and couldn't have a debug UART at all
2024-03-03T18:30:09 < antto> the only question is how does it come out on the computer side
2024-03-03T18:31:40 < antto> but i generally prefer to have a real UART... basically i want SWD plus optional TXD (transmit from target) and even more optional RXD (transmit from computer) onto the same port
2024-03-03T18:31:58 < qyx> semihosting antto, fuk segger
2024-03-03T18:32:15 < qyx> works in openocd too, goes to stdout
2024-03-03T18:32:29 < antto> i have my own serial port monitoring program
2024-03-03T18:32:54 < qyx> I am not talking about serial
2024-03-03T18:33:21 < antto> i've looked into this semihosting thing several times already and i keep forgetting what it was about
2024-03-03T18:33:31 < antto> but this means it probably wasn't what i wanted
2024-03-03T18:34:19 < qyx> k then
2024-03-03T18:34:36 < qyx> but as karlp said, adding uart to debug is half-lame and there already is swo
2024-03-03T18:35:07 < qyx> and semihosting can do the same, although it has some drawbacks too
2024-03-03T18:35:08 < antto> SWO isn't available on all chips
2024-03-03T18:35:34 < qyx> then route an uart to the SWO pin instead
2024-03-03T18:35:39 < qyx> *instead of adding pins
2024-03-03T18:36:13 < antto> okay, so you suggest i move the optional TXD to the SWO pin, great, but i still wanna have an optional RXD
2024-03-03T18:37:20 < qyx> I am not gonna persuade anyone, as said before, custom programming connectors are simply lame
2024-03-03T18:37:46 < qyx> making ARM programming headers standard was the bestest thing arm could do to improve debugging user experience
2024-03-03T18:37:53 < qyx> and not having half a million different adapters
2024-03-03T18:38:02 < antto> i still use an adapter
2024-03-03T18:38:48 < qyx> as long as you are doing a make:r board for yourself, do whatever you want
2024-03-03T18:39:02 < qyx> if you are doing things for your employers, definitely go with the standard one
2024-03-03T18:39:11 < qyx> if you intend to sell anything, go with the standard one
2024-03-03T18:39:23 < antto> why?
2024-03-03T18:39:37 < antto> the client isn't supposed to poke with a debugger
2024-03-03T18:39:53 < qyx> nah, do whatever you want
2024-03-03T18:40:11 < qyx> I just run out of juice
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2024-03-03T18:41:11 < antto> it's too late for $job, and those devices are dumb and boring anyway
2024-03-03T18:41:16 < antto> no one's gonna care
2024-03-03T18:41:44 < antto> i need something better/smaller than STDC-14 for $home
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2024-03-03T21:07:43 < jpa-> https://github.com/hpaluch-pil/stm32-usb-cdc1/blob/master/Src/usbd_conf.c#L388-L613   who the heck writes wrappers like this without ever stopping to think whether there might be a better way to do it..
2024-03-03T21:42:52 < qyx> may you elaborate? I am seeing that kind of code for the first time
2024-03-03T21:50:24 < jpa-> it seems the st's own stm32 usb driver consists of this "PCD" part and "USBD" part, and then they are connected together with a set of wrapper functions
2024-03-03T21:56:53 < qyx> do you suggest generating them with a macro? :p
2024-03-03T22:07:24 < jpa-> even that would be better :)
2024-03-03T22:15:29 < Steffanx> Time for a pull request. 
2024-03-03T22:15:40 < jpa-> i think this is garbage, maybe i'll just go with tinyusb
2024-03-03T22:15:46 < Steffanx> and become the maintainer of this wonderful piece of code
2024-03-03T22:16:33 < Steffanx> You totally need a new open source project, jpa- 
2024-03-03T22:18:19 < fenugrec> jpa- yes, please fix tinyusb. 'hathach' working hard there but tons of work to do
2024-03-03T22:24:12 < karlp> smihosting is slow and intrusive, I don't really see much appeal for it, unless you really want the fopen shits to get files frrom the host. doing printf via semihosting is garbage, so intrusvie, I'd use a uart over that anyday of the week.
2024-03-03T22:24:52 < karlp> but yeah, rtt is "standardized" by segger, and yes, it's just a chunk of ram with some formatting and ringbuffers. openocd supports it too, it's ~the best option on cortex m0 for instance, that doesn't have swo.
2024-03-03T22:27:03 < karlp> tinyusb has good bits, but man, it's got some rough bits too.
2024-03-03T22:27:27 < karlp> doing it all on every vendor's damn hal underneath isn't something I'm super happy with.
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2024-03-03T22:33:03 < fenugrec> whaat I thought it was at least using _LL ... HAL , really ?
2024-03-03T22:34:17 < fenugrec> karlp are you refering to something else ? looks like for stm32_FS they use direct register access, no ? https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/src/portable/st/stm32_fsdev/dcd_stm32_fsdev.c
2024-03-03T22:36:58 < karlp> yes and no: https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/tools/get_deps.py#L122-L164
2024-03-03T22:37:05 < karlp> you can avoid it, sort of, sometimes.
2024-03-03T22:37:38 < karlp> in some platforms, it seems to only user the vendor hals for board support, so... if you did your own thing, you can technically avoid the vendor hals.
2024-03-03T22:37:53 < karlp> but on kinetis for instance, it still explicitly uses the vendor hals.
2024-03-03T22:38:09 < karlp> which is... problematic for me, as the vendor doesn't have a hal for my part...
2024-03-03T22:39:10 < karlp> that get_deps thing is "we heard you didnt' like submodules, so we're doing it by git cloning anyway behind your back"
2024-03-03T22:43:47 < fenugrec> well
2024-03-03T22:44:02  * karlp shrugs I'm new to tinyusb anyway.
2024-03-03T22:44:15 < karlp> and my two platforms of interest are both "partial"
2024-03-03T22:45:22 < fenugrec> get_deps seems to be to avoid a 'git submodule update' downloading 100000GB of vendor repos, the intent is good
2024-03-03T22:45:50 < karlp> eyah, it works, it's a known solution to having 50 submodules
2024-03-03T22:49:19 < karlp> zyp: what's the "build: allow patching/overriding platform spec" meant to be used for? (in laks?)
2024-03-03T22:49:32 < karlp> it's dated april last year, but I'm only jsut pulling stuff up again frrom you
2024-03-03T22:52:44 < qyx> I am using a get_deps thing in scons too now
2024-03-03T22:53:06 < qyx> because with a ton of submodules there is no sane way of handling them and cloning only the required deps
2024-03-03T22:53:41 < zyp> karlp, stuff like env.SelectMCU('stm32g0b1cb', patch = {'mem': {'ram': {'size': 36 * 1024}}})
2024-03-03T22:54:10 < zyp> also, I don't recall if this was part of the same or related:
2024-03-03T22:54:10 < zyp> env.Firmware('bootloader.elf', ['bootloader.cpp'], mem = {'flash': {'size': 0x2000, 'origin': 0x8000000}})
2024-03-03T22:54:12 < karlp> if you could put something like that single itty bitty line in the commit comment, it would be _super_ asesome.
2024-03-03T22:54:12 < qyx> and that's not because "we heard you didn't like submodules", I am highly positive with them but they are simply unsuitable for some projects
2024-03-03T22:54:14 < zyp> env.Firmware('testrack.elf', ['main.cpp'], mem = {'flash': {'size': 0x1e000, 'origin': 0x8002000}})
2024-03-03T22:55:50 < zyp> karlp, I'll keep that in mind
2024-03-03T22:56:19 < fenugrec> qyx , bonus points if you clone --depth 1 too
2024-03-03T22:56:39 < qyx> yes
2024-03-03T22:56:59 < fenugrec> would love a more integrated way for optional submodules but no defacto standard way of doing that AFAIK
2024-03-03T22:57:39 < qyx> if you are going to do developmnet, you can handle that one submodule on your own, do a full clone, modify, commit, push, etc.
2024-03-03T22:57:58 < qyx> but for a clicky clicky fast build, clone deps only with depth=1
2024-03-03T22:58:09 < karlp> I think git clone --filter=blob:none is the recommended shallow form for developers.  but there's lots of options: https://github.blog/2020-12-21-get-up-to-speed-with-partial-clone-and-shallow-clone/ has the alternatives 
2024-03-03T22:58:44 < karlp> big differecnes for "I just want to build, I'm never going to look at it" vs "I may"
2024-03-03T22:59:01 < zyp> I figure it'd be nice if the bigger multi-repo tools built on submodules instead of competing with them
2024-03-03T22:59:27 < zyp> as in, still tracking the dependencies like submodules, but handling cloning/checkout/whatever in a more sophisticated manner
2024-03-03T22:59:57 < qyx> another thing I was super angry with was removing of submodules
2024-03-03T23:00:01 < qyx> but now you can just rm them
2024-03-03T23:03:01 < zyp> we're finally starting to get to the point at work where we'll link in dependencies as submodules, we've got too many old projects where that was handled manually and it's frustrating when I need to pull up and build some old project
2024-03-03T23:05:59 < zyp> one of my coworkers did some work to reorganize the main framework repo to pull in all the sub-dependencies as submodules like a year or two ago, but it didn't get mainlined until two weeks ago
2024-03-03T23:07:21 < zyp> I did some maintenance work on the framework while the lead dev was on vacation, so I figured I'll just push it through and get it over with since everything has already been reviewed and okayed for months
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--- Day changed ma maalis 04 2024
2024-03-04T00:34:09 -!- hexo_ [~hexo@user/hexo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2024-03-04T00:52:18 < qyx> I have an activator for a glue I don't have
2024-03-04T00:52:30 < qyx> 1. get rid of the activator, 2. buy the right glue
2024-03-04T00:54:50 < qyx> but loctite 330 is such a low performant glue, idk what would I use it for
2024-03-04T00:57:07 < karlp> zyp: is there a c++ "using" that I need to add somewhere to make this prettier? https://github.com/karlp/l2-ch58x-btle/blob/main/src/ble1.cpp#L283 ? 
2024-03-04T00:57:13 < karlp> I want to use this enum nicely: https://github.com/karlp/laks/blob/ch58x/rtc/ch58x_rtc.h#L21
2024-03-04T00:58:24 < karlp> is this what the "aliases" is meant to be in the jinja templates?
2024-03-04T00:59:03 -!- IanW [~IceChat9@arcanum.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye]
2024-03-04T01:01:38 < karlp> or the type_aliases... doesn't seem to at least...
2024-03-04T01:04:22 < karlp> nope, nvm, think I got it.
2024-03-04T01:06:03 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/524aabcb6420667255e510506a53721f072fdcb5 works.
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2024-03-04T01:08:36 < qyx> lol I looked at instances.append and though how much c++ has changed
2024-03-04T01:16:04 < ventYl> ?
2024-03-04T01:21:33 < karlp> (he was looking at python code that generates c++ code)
2024-03-04T01:21:43 < ventYl> ummm
2024-03-04T01:22:34 < ventYl> and I thught that python code generating linker scripts is a mess
2024-03-04T01:23:59 < zyp> mine?
2024-03-04T01:25:19 < karlp> ventYl just likes autosar too much too accept anything else :)
2024-03-04T01:26:05 < ventYl> zyp: nope, my creepy RTOS has a python script that analyses map file and ajusts linker scripts. something similar to what Zephyr does when memory protection is turned on
2024-03-04T01:26:21 < ventYl> just, my creepy RTOS does that automatically and cannot be told not to do so
2024-03-04T01:26:26 < zyp> ah
2024-03-04T01:27:19 < zyp> I've briefly touched the zephyr flash allocation stuff
2024-03-04T01:27:48 < zyp> on one hand it seemed like a mess I couldn't quite wrap my head around, on the other hand I kinda want to do something similar in laks
2024-03-04T01:28:31 < zyp> although to be fair, I'm not sure the mess came from zephyr itself, or from the nrf stuff on top of it
2024-03-04T01:28:37 < qyx> oh ventYl not electrocuted yet
2024-03-04T01:28:57 < ventYl> in Zephyr it is kind of mess, because there's no clear concept of what should be isolated from what
2024-03-04T01:29:42 < ventYl> IIRC, you manually set what is isolated into which region
2024-03-04T01:29:55 < ventYl> and then you have to mind to be in right state to actually have access to that region
2024-03-04T01:36:27 < ventYl> zyp: https://github.com/ventZl/cmrx
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2024-03-04T01:44:39 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2024-03-04T01:45:03 < Laurenceb_> til neckbeards e-stalking female voice artists behind automated announcers is a thing
2024-03-04T01:45:49 < Laurenceb_> tfw I have some 1980s eproms at work with a voice artist they fap over on them, maybe I should sell on ebay
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2024-03-04T03:17:16 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Anyone have a 50ohm coplanar microstrip calculation for 2 layer 1.6mm board?
2024-03-04T03:17:57 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I think I biffed it completel because everything works on the board except WiFi. And same code works on the eval board so pretty sure I messed up the antenna feed :(
2024-03-04T03:24:26 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I have a 0.6mm trace, it has 0.15mm gap to the GND poly on the same layer and it's 1.5mm to the GND plane
2024-03-04T03:24:55 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I get that the ~Zo=58 Ohm but I'm not sure if this is enough to make the antenna not work at all
2024-03-04T03:24:59 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Or maybe something else is messed up :\
2024-03-04T03:34:14 < qyx> 0.8 mm trace, 0.15 mm clearance
2024-03-04T03:34:33 < qyx> coplanar waveguide it is called
2024-03-04T03:35:50 < qyx> sorry 0.1 mm clearance
2024-03-04T03:36:27 < qyx> yeah 0.8/0.1, 1.0/0.15, 1.2/0.2
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2024-03-04T03:37:30 < qyx> if you just use an arbitrary length of trace/wire your radio should work at 20-50 cm
2024-03-04T03:37:43 < qyx> even if there is total mismatch
2024-03-04T03:42:40  * qyx opening thunderbird to get angry
2024-03-04T03:52:31 < qyx> nothing happens, apparently it was weekend
2024-03-04T04:01:56 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It does not work at all. Even if I put my phone right next to the IC/antenna it can not see SSID
2024-03-04T04:03:19 < qyx> so.. it's broken maybe?
2024-03-04T04:03:40 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I'm not sure, I flashed the exact same FW on another (dev) board and it works fine
2024-03-04T04:03:53 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> The IC works because I can talk to it over USB, it flashes the LEDs etc
2024-03-04T04:03:55 < qyx> and is your hardware exactly the same?
2024-03-04T04:03:58 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It's just the WiFi does not work
2024-03-04T04:04:07 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Exactly except the antenna part :\
2024-03-04T04:04:24 < qyx> what did you change, any pictures?
2024-03-04T04:06:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> https://i.postimg.cc/RvdgS1kb/Antenna-feed.png
2024-03-04T04:06:48 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> This is how the feed line looks like
2024-03-04T04:07:26 < qyx> the schematic part
2024-03-04T04:07:38 < qyx> I don't believe it is a layout issue when it totally doesn't work
2024-03-04T04:09:44 < qyx> https://www.nwengineeringllc.com/article/img/SIW-0.png
2024-03-04T04:09:52 < qyx> you should not put ground under parts
2024-03-04T04:10:29 < qyx> is it kicad, why is it so ugly
2024-03-04T04:11:05 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Here is the schematic https://i.postimg.cc/sxnxtnT1/antenna-sch.png
2024-03-04T04:11:18 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It basically ust has antenna, 0R and that's it
2024-03-04T04:11:38 < qyx> oh C3, I have actually used that
2024-03-04T04:11:48 < qyx> but without the radio part
2024-03-04T04:12:22 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Yeah, it's pretty neat part. I have it on another 4 layer board and it works great but on this 2 layer board it does not
2024-03-04T04:12:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I have 4 boards that I brough up and all of them behave the same way :\
2024-03-04T04:13:33 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It's weird that I don't see a WiFi network even when 1cm away from the board
2024-03-04T04:13:36 < qyx> I have a note in my schematic that "radio is unused, VDD3P3 filter is not needed"
2024-03-04T04:13:58 < qyx> you are missing all the filtering
2024-03-04T04:14:30 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> That's fair. But I have exact same schematic on a 4 layer board and it works fine :\
2024-03-04T04:14:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Also, thi is THE ONLY chip other than LDO on the board :)
2024-03-04T04:16:59 < qyx> I guess the rest of the chip is hidden?
2024-03-04T04:18:11 < qyx> either 1. the LNA trace is shorted (bad soldering), 2. xtal caps may be wrong (different stray capacitance on 2L vs 4L), 3. lack of filtering makes something unhappy (USB is noisy)
2024-03-04T04:19:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Here is the full schematic -> https://i.postimg.cc/NYrYKLfx/ant-full.png
2024-03-04T04:19:44 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> The external thingies just go to connectors
2024-03-04T04:20:03 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> That's a good point about the xtal... I can try replacing the caps
2024-03-04T04:20:37 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I already drilled the vias to completely disconnect the top GND poly from GND and it didn't do anything. Well at least didn't make it work. I assume it makes things even worse :)
2024-03-04T04:41:05 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I replaced the xtal caps for higher and also lower value and same result :\
2024-03-04T04:41:49 < qyx> have you checked for shorts on the antenna trace
2024-03-04T04:42:35 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I haven't re-soldered the chip but on all four PCBs this is the only issue...
2024-03-04T04:43:03 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I continuity checked the trace to GND and it's clear
2024-03-04T04:51:55 < qyx> what does the log say, can it receive?
2024-03-04T04:52:06 < qyx> yre you able to scan nearby networks?
2024-03-04T04:53:17 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I see that it created a gateway and it shows the fixed IP..
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2024-03-04T05:11:57 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Hu... one board now connected to WiFi
2024-03-04T05:12:01 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> This is weird af
2024-03-04T05:27:49 < qyx> one of four?
2024-03-04T05:28:01  * qyx @ DIALITH - Ignite the Sky
2024-03-04T05:28:08 < qyx> 4:30 morning musiks
2024-03-04T05:47:52 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Huh.. so something is f-ed up. I loaded a different FW and now I can see a AP with -47dBm
2024-03-04T05:48:02 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> It's 10cm away from the phone so it seem a bit weak
2024-03-04T05:49:13 < qyx> have you verified the firmware after loading?
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2024-03-04T06:00:31 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> How do you mean? Like read it back?
2024-03-04T06:01:03 < qyx> esptool has a verify option
2024-03-04T06:01:15 < qyx> it computes some sort of hash
2024-03-04T06:01:42 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> At the end it says "Hash of data verified." so I assume it does verify
2024-03-04T06:07:32 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Damn Espressif and Arduino... 
2024-03-04T06:08:04 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Added "WiFi.mode(WIFI_STA);" at the begining of setup and everything works not...
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2024-03-04T10:52:35 < benishor> <josuah> benishor: hello! Sorry for bringing that out of the blue... but were you working on an STM32-based HF radio before?
2024-03-04T10:52:37 < benishor> yeah, sorry for the delay
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2024-03-04T11:41:02 < karlp> fucking st.  most parts have two point temp sensor calibration points.
2024-03-04T11:41:05 < karlp> 30 and 110.
2024-03-04T11:41:24 < karlp> most g0s have it at 130, at least in the datasheet, even though the parts are only specced to 125.
2024-03-04T11:41:29 < karlp> g4 is back to 110.
2024-03-04T11:41:57 < karlp> but looking at more g0 datasheets, the smallest g030, in son8, doesn't even  have the temp sensor, and the g070rb has _single_ point calibration...
2024-03-04T11:42:42 < karlp> and some of the g4s have it at 130...
2024-03-04T11:42:44 < karlp> joy of joys.
2024-03-04T12:27:50 < mawk> single point calibration
2024-03-04T12:27:51 < mawk> nice
2024-03-04T12:30:18 < mawk> you can just figure out a constant offset with that
2024-03-04T12:30:48 < mawk> with d+1 points you can interpolate a polynomial of degree d
2024-03-04T12:30:56 < mawk> the proof is left to the reader
2024-03-04T12:49:34 < Steffanx> Yet you have to write code for all those exceptions.
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2024-03-04T13:12:35 < mawk> HAL does it usually
2024-03-04T13:12:45 < mawk> when there are idiosyncrasies in a particular chip or family
2024-03-04T13:12:49 < mawk> like they do erratas
2024-03-04T13:16:14 < karlp> fucking tinyusb added a k64 PR, and that one crashes.  mine doesn't.
2024-03-04T13:16:37 < karlp> now I'm at the wrong end and have to work it out instead of just getting mine submitted.
2024-03-04T13:35:26 < jpa-> so uh, tinyusb isn't great either? :|
2024-03-04T13:35:54 < jpa-> is there seriously no other reasonable USB library than that fishy one whose author stubbornly refuses to write a readme?!
2024-03-04T13:41:58 < karlp> ••I can't even see what the difference is right now between my version and theirs, except theirs has more mcuxpresso droppings.
2024-03-04T13:42:12 < karlp> I htink tinyusb is probably fine for device, but host is always less tested I believe.
2024-03-04T13:42:20 < karlp> which fishy one are you talking about?
2024-03-04T13:42:39 < Steffanx> I assume the one by mr Z.
2024-03-04T13:43:53 < Steffanx> *z
2024-03-04T13:44:27 < karlp> that's device only, and only for a limited subset of stm32 devices too :)
2024-03-04T13:52:23 < jpa-> which is all i want anyway ;)
2024-03-04T13:52:39 < antto> LUFA?
2024-03-04T13:52:44 < Steffanx> lol good old times.
2024-03-04T13:52:48 < Steffanx> is lufa still a thing?
2024-03-04T13:52:54 < Steffanx> i mean: Is AVR still a thing
2024-03-04T13:53:05 < antto> surely
2024-03-04T13:53:51 < Steffanx> Last release: 2017
2024-03-04T13:54:09 < antto> at $job i had to make a very very very dumb thing that needs an MCU, collegues suggested i use that very dumb and cheap pic12 SOIC-8, i found a cheaper and nicer pseudo-xmega
2024-03-04T13:54:29 < karlp> xmega is _not_ avr though
2024-03-04T13:54:35 < antto> eh?
2024-03-04T13:54:40 < Steffanx> it is
2024-03-04T13:54:44 < antto> que?
2024-03-04T13:54:48 < Steffanx> AVR® XMEGA®
2024-03-04T13:55:15 < karlp> wasn't it a totally different arch?
2024-03-04T13:55:25 < karlp> waht am I thinking of?
2024-03-04T13:55:35 < antto> no clue, you need coffee maybe
2024-03-04T13:55:38 < antto> MOAR coffee
2024-03-04T13:55:57 < Steffanx> afaik it uses the same instruction set (if not with some additions)
2024-03-04T13:56:04 < karlp> might have been avr32.
2024-03-04T13:56:15 < Steffanx> Yeah those are completely different
2024-03-04T13:56:16 < karlp> what the fuxk is xmega then? just newer atmega?
2024-03-04T13:56:29 < Steffanx> More fancy AVR.
2024-03-04T13:56:31 < antto> avr32 is a different thing, surely, xmega is 8bit fancier atmega, but with MUCHOS NICE peripherals
2024-03-04T13:57:01 < antto> if you see PDI - it's an xmega, if you see UPDI - it's a pseudo-xmega
2024-03-04T13:57:30 < Steffanx> psuedo-xmega like those newer ATTinys?
2024-03-04T13:57:49 < jpa-> attiny timers are somehow quite weirdo
2024-03-04T13:58:02 < Steffanx> I looked at a datasheet a long time back and didn't even recognize it anymore.
2024-03-04T13:58:04 < antto> karlp, peripherals and overal feel of the xmegas is as if you're dealing with a fancy MCU family, that is, before microsh*t f*cked up the datasheets
2024-03-04T13:58:12 < jpa-> each timer works different
2024-03-04T13:58:32 < Steffanx> and DMA antto, such DMA.
2024-03-04T13:58:55 < antto> Steffanx, yes, there are some new attiny and some others that are actually pseudo-xmegas
2024-03-04T13:59:10 < Steffanx> Still only 16/20/32MHz though.
2024-03-04T13:59:47 < antto> "attiny" is no longer meaningful unless you specify whether it's the old kind of the new kind, so just look at the programming port - if it's (U)PDI - it's a (pseudo-)xmega
2024-03-04T14:00:33 < antto> not sure about the pseudo ones, but the xmega does have DMA and event system and what not
2024-03-04T14:00:43 < antto> several levels of interrupts
2024-03-04T14:03:03 < antto> some have AES-128 crypto ;P~
2024-03-04T14:04:11 < antto> now microsh*t started renaming sh*t, SAME54 will come under the name PIC32 .... F*CKING MICROSH*T
2024-03-04T14:05:10 < antto> with a completely bleached-out datasheet and everything, as if atmel didn't ever exist
2024-03-04T14:06:27 < Steffanx> What's an Atmel?
2024-03-04T14:06:44 < antto> i wonder if they'll make a payware version of arm-none-eabi-gcc which sprinkles a bunch of NOP instructions around if you haven't payed
2024-03-04T14:07:27 < antto> Steffanx, the father of xmega, the best 8bit chips ;P~
2024-03-04T14:07:39  * antto hides
2024-03-04T14:10:23 < ventYl> might be the best, yet still useless in 2020s
2024-03-04T14:11:52 < Steffanx> Best one is stm8.
2024-03-04T14:11:57 < jpa-> i feel that attinys are still quite useful; sure, you can replace them with any cortex-m chip, but when attiny does the job, they are often simpler to use, better available and cheaper
2024-03-04T14:12:04 < jpa-> and updi is nice
2024-03-04T14:15:34 < antto> i am currently butchering my old "very overengineered 7seg clock" project, which was started with an xmega originally, left unfinished for several years, and now i replaced some stuff including the xmega with a samd20 (cortex-M0+)
2024-03-04T14:16:24 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/ENMRbZY.png
2024-03-04T14:19:02 < qyx> I like your routing
2024-03-04T14:19:30 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1xJwR/Screenshot_2024-03-04_13-19-16.png
2024-03-04T14:20:59 < antto> noice
2024-03-04T14:21:43 < Steffanx> Are you alright qyx ?
2024-03-04T14:21:44 < antto> here's clearer:
2024-03-04T14:21:46 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/fbziRv7.png
2024-03-04T14:22:22 < Steffanx> What's that qyx? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3GphzZJT/image.png
2024-03-04T14:24:25 < antto> a few non-organic tracks
2024-03-04T14:25:45 < antto> i hate T-junctions tho
2024-03-04T14:28:25 < qyx> Steffanx: sorry, I'll fix that
2024-03-04T14:29:01 < Steffanx> ty
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2024-03-04T15:24:20 < fenugrec> spaghetti tracks
2024-03-04T15:25:48 < Steffanx> And you love spaghetti
2024-03-04T15:26:04 < fenugrec> who says I cook it. I like my lines straight
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2024-03-04T16:24:40 < jbo> did we rewrite everything in rust yet?
2024-03-04T16:25:55 < jpa-> no, after careful study we have come into observation that all code written by people here is total crap, and we don't want to pollute the rustiverse with it
2024-03-04T16:26:33 < jbo> but it's so much safer!!!!111eleven
2024-03-04T16:34:59 < Steffanx> My great example jbo is still stuck on C++. I will only move to Rust when he does.
2024-03-04T16:39:40 < karlp> I love going back to old commits with lists of tests that passed, and now none of them work...
2024-03-04T16:42:06 < Steffanx> :)
2024-03-04T16:45:08 < karlp> yeah....
2024-03-04T16:51:19 < ventYl> my tests fail even without me mentioning which of them were working :)
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2024-03-04T16:53:58 < jbo> Steffanx, stuck?
2024-03-04T16:54:19 < jbo> Steffanx, I do think that a lot of the Rust vs. C++ discussions assume that it's C++98
2024-03-04T16:56:03 < Steffanx> Stuck, jbo 😝
2024-03-04T16:57:01 < veverak> jbo: yes, a lot of people compare latest rust with how they did C++ 10 years back
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2024-03-04T16:57:23 < ventYl> some still do it the same today
2024-03-04T16:57:39 < ventYl> yet Rust has some features missing even in C++23
2024-03-04T16:57:55 < ventYl> some may say these are anti-features, others will say they are features
2024-03-04T16:58:10 < veverak> I say that these debates are useless
2024-03-04T16:58:27 < jbo> indeed (to all of the above)
2024-03-04T16:58:56 < veverak> I wrestled more with language-independent design choices in projects than with limitations of the language
2024-03-04T16:59:15 < jbo> absolutely agree
2024-03-04T16:59:17 < veverak> (except for C, I hate it)
2024-03-04T16:59:31 < jbo> hence I don't get why everybody needs to rewrite everything in the latest popular language every 8 years
2024-03-04T16:59:51 < Steffanx> Because old code sucks. 
2024-03-04T17:00:03 < Steffanx> New code is always better
2024-03-04T17:00:10 < jbo> -__-
2024-03-04T17:00:10 < veverak> You mean "new pile of shit"
2024-03-04T17:00:34 < veverak> Anyway yes, number of people that can design codebases to live for _long term_ is suprisingly low
2024-03-04T17:00:40 < veverak> or not so suprisingly...
2024-03-04T17:01:02 < jbo> every time something becomes more accessible it becomes more shitty
2024-03-04T17:01:06 < jbo> rule of life
2024-03-04T17:04:33 < Steffanx> Poor jbo 
2024-03-04T17:05:56 < jpa-> my experience with rust is that it is safer in the sense that it refuses to compile my code
2024-03-04T17:07:48 < antto> muhahaha
2024-03-04T17:08:50 < specing> That's how it is when I write Ada for stm32
2024-03-04T17:09:09 < specing> lots of refusing to compile, then when it's uploaded it all works
2024-03-04T17:09:37 < Steffanx> Blinky LEDs are fun uh?
2024-03-04T17:18:27 < fenugrec> rust always looks so foreign, 'all right you elitist CS mages, keep your secret language then'
2024-03-04T17:25:44 < karlp> 'you 'don't lov'e the ' all ' over the 'place for 'læifecycles?
2024-03-04T17:32:22 < qyx> jpa-: re crap, very true
2024-03-04T17:43:19 < qyx> re rewriting code makes it better, very true
2024-03-04T17:43:42 < qyx> (doesn't mean rewriting to whatever language is hyped at that time)
2024-03-04T17:44:52 < qyx> veverak: are you sure, the amount of legacy code in every OS is enormous
2024-03-04T17:45:48 < veverak> qyx: and is it properly designed?
2024-03-04T17:46:48 < qyx> you didn't say hat
2024-03-04T17:47:07 < qyx> but it is indeed living long term
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2024-03-04T19:54:41 < kre10s> rust offers more guarantees that C or C++ or python or ... the only thing comparable in this sense is maybe ada, there just arn't many accesible compilers for it.
2024-03-04T19:56:02 < kre10s> I like C. not because it is particularily good, but because it is so simple and availible everywhere..
2024-03-04T19:56:11 < specing> GNAT is very accessible
2024-03-04T19:56:29 < kre10s> if it does not have a C compiler it does not exist.
2024-03-04T19:57:05 < kre10s> I draw the line at assembly XD
2024-03-04T19:58:06 < jpa-> so, STM32F042 USB, it's enabling the pull-up and host is trying to init, but the STM32 is not receiving any packets, not even SOF.. usb registers are http://paste.dy.fi/xRp/plain
2024-03-04T19:58:47 < kre10s> I don't know what was the reason I don't use GNAT
2024-03-04T20:00:00 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> The boost DC-DC is getting a bit warmer than I would like it to... before I replace it. Adding more decoupling, bumping inductance (if possible), what else can I try?
2024-03-04T20:00:51 < jpa-> ColdKeybo[a]rd: what part of it is getting warm? the chip?
2024-03-04T20:02:07 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Yes the switching regulator
2024-03-04T20:02:31 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> The inductor is rated for 800mA and I'm drawing maybe 100mA max
2024-03-04T20:03:34 < jpa-> have you calculated whether the dissipation matches what would be expected from the switch on-resistance?
2024-03-04T20:04:25 < jpa-> if it does, there is not much you can do, as the switch vs. output current ratio in boost is directly related to the boost ratio
2024-03-04T20:05:21 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> that's good point, I just "eyeballed it" instead of calculating it
2024-03-04T20:05:40 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> I had a few AP3012KTR so I put them in to boost 5V to 12V
2024-03-04T20:05:48 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> And then drive a 12V fan from that
2024-03-04T20:08:56 < jpa-> looks like the switch dissipation should be just 0.1 W for 100 mA output current
2024-03-04T20:09:27 < fenugrec> jpa- I don't have the USBFS regs memorized; I assume you can't show us the code ?
2024-03-04T20:09:58 < jpa-> fenugrec: i can if you really want, but it is just trying to initialize the cube driver so i'm not optimistic that anything can be discovered by looking at it
2024-03-04T20:10:02 < fenugrec> so the usual suspects - RCC enabled ? proper clock (either xtal or CRS), gpio_AF ?
2024-03-04T20:10:44 < jpa-> RCC clock to USB is enabled, otherwise CNTR would stay at 0; clock is HSI48, but CRS won't activate until it starts detecting SOF packets; AF is correct because the USB pull-up is getting enabled
2024-03-04T20:10:52 < fenugrec> ah cube, well all I can say is this code works on F042/F072 https://github.com/candle-usb/candleLight_fw/blob/master/src/main.c#L94
2024-03-04T20:11:23 < jpa-> thanks, that is a useful reference
2024-03-04T20:14:42 < fenugrec> d+/d- not swapped ? : )
2024-03-04T20:15:46 < jpa-> host is seeing it as full-speed device so should be correct
2024-03-04T20:18:10 < fenugrec> you might actually reflash firmware above just to 100% rule out any hardware issues. Might need to neuter some gpio stuff depending on your board
2024-03-04T20:19:50 < jpa-> oh, and the built-in DFU bootloader works fine
2024-03-04T20:20:35 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> jpa- How did you get 0.1W number? I don't see switch ON resistance in the datasheet
2024-03-04T20:22:14 < jpa-> ColdKeybo[a]rd: it's bipolar, so it has a saturation voltage
2024-03-04T20:22:34 < jpa-> i calculated 100mA * 12/5 * 300mV
2024-03-04T20:23:31 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Oh I see. Thanks!
2024-03-04T20:23:41 < fenugrec> ah yes if DFU works, all good
2024-03-04T20:24:36 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> So with junction to atmosphere of 265C/W, it should get ~26C above ambient, which checks out I guess :\
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2024-03-04T20:29:33 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Any DCDC you guys would recommend for 5V to 12V boost for driving a 12V fan?
2024-03-04T20:30:07 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> MIC2288 has a DFN package that has way lower thermal resistance compared to SOT23-5
2024-03-04T20:33:46 < specing> do you need one? I have 12V fans happilly spnning on 5V
2024-03-04T20:33:59 < specing> not as fast, but they move air without being audible
2024-03-04T20:34:20 < karlp> sot23 is _terrrrrible_ thermal perf.
2024-03-04T20:34:30 < karlp> almost anythign else will be better.
2024-03-04T20:43:09 < jpa-> 26°C above ambient doesn't sound like a problem at all, unless your ambient is 80°C or something
2024-03-04T20:44:53 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> specing: Good question, I do need 12V
2024-03-04T20:45:02 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> karlp: I realize that now... :)
2024-03-04T20:45:46 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> jpa- It's not but it just seems wrong to dump that much heat into something you are trying to cool down in the first place :)
2024-03-04T20:48:09 < fenugrec> +1 running fan below nominal voltage. Much less noise, still decent airflow.
2024-03-04T20:49:01 < qyx> Iwould run the fan at 5 V
2024-03-04T20:49:15 < qyx> also, it is inductive load
2024-03-04T20:50:28 < qyx> also, tps61089
2024-03-04T20:51:04 < jpa-> fenugrec: got the USB problem solved, turns out on 20 pin packages i need to set SYSCFG PA11_PA12_REMAP bit to enable the pin access
2024-03-04T20:51:08 < qyx> but it is not compatible with the cheap and make:r mindset
2024-03-04T20:51:13 < jpa-> funnily it enables the pull-up even when the remap is not set
2024-03-04T20:51:40 < jpa-> ColdKeybo[a]rd: then you need to figure out something with less dissipation, not with less thermal resistance
2024-03-04T20:53:45 < fenugrec> jpa- ah yes, the tssop20 is an oddball. Can't use CAN+USB at the same time either
2024-03-04T20:54:20 < jpa-> anyway, CDC-ACM working nicely now
2024-03-04T20:54:26 < fenugrec> nice
2024-03-04T20:54:39 < qyx> really?
2024-03-04T20:54:53 < qyx> for qfn28 too?
2024-03-04T20:55:05 < qyx> because there are f042 can usb dongles
2024-03-04T20:55:15 < fenugrec> dunno about qfn28. but can TX/RX pins overlap D+/D- on the tssop20
2024-03-04T20:55:42 < fenugrec> yes I know about the f042 usb-can, I designed one, and somehow maintain the candlelight_fw repo
2024-03-04T20:56:53 < jpa-> CAN_TX should be unavailable for QFN28 too
2024-03-04T20:57:24 < jpa-> CAN_RX is available on PB8 for both without conflict
2024-03-04T20:58:02 < fenugrec> good to know, thanks. Wonder why they didn't try harder on the qfn28 pin assignments
2024-03-04T20:58:51 < qyx> marketing failed to identify possible usecases?
2024-03-04T20:59:01 < jpa-> i wonder why they felt that PB1 is so important that they brought it out instead of PB9
2024-03-04T20:59:44 < fenugrec> and CAN_RX without CAN_TX is nearly useless, except listen-only nodes that can't even ACK a frame
2024-03-04T21:01:18 < jpa-> USB low-speed could always be bitbanged on any GPIO though
2024-03-04T21:01:29 < jpa-> but pretty silly
2024-03-04T21:01:47 < fenugrec> that's PIC/AVR shenaningans
2024-03-04T21:02:13 < jpa-> yes, civilized gentlemen on ##stm32 would never resort to such dirty tricks
2024-03-04T21:02:30 < fenugrec> heh
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--- Day changed ti maalis 05 2024
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2024-03-05T00:21:12 < karlp> was just about to give up for the night, feeling dumb.  found "ptr()->CTRL_MOD &= ~(1<<4)"  so yeah, feeling dumb still, but at least I found it...
2024-03-05T00:21:23 < karlp> oh, um, it was missing the ~ originally.
2024-03-05T00:21:31 < karlp> I just couldn't type, or copy/paste before I fixed it.
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2024-03-05T00:22:25 < karlp> also, joy, it isn't even enouhg to fix things
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2024-03-05T04:54:49 < qyx> zyp: you tried multiple resins at jlc3d, is 9000R any good to prototype an enclosure?
2024-03-05T04:54:54 < qyx> or which ones did you use?
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2024-03-05T05:40:08 < qyx> stm32u5a9 is very wow, much power save
2024-03-05T05:40:31 < qyx> 28 uA at 1v8 in stop2 mode with 2.5 MB SRAM retained
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2024-03-05T08:09:03 < jpa-> qyx: i haven't tried it on jlcpcb, but elsewhere i like MJF PA12, i think orbtrace enclosures are also made of it
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2024-03-05T10:49:00 < Steffanx> I had something printed in CBY 2 weeks ago. I was pleasantly surprised by the results. Tapping holes was even successful. (+ some test parts in MJF PA12 and black resin) 
2024-03-05T10:49:20 < Steffanx> The colour isn't amazing, but should be fine for an enclosure.
2024-03-05T10:50:29 < Steffanx> Tapping thread*
2024-03-05T10:50:41 < qyx> and what was the algo you used to select cby?
2024-03-05T10:51:24 < Steffanx> Or whatever you do. Tapping, threading.. :p
2024-03-05T11:13:37 < Steffanx> qyx: nothing scientific. slightly higher heat deflection temp, slightly cheaper than half of the other options. :D
2024-03-05T11:14:36 < Steffanx> 9000R would have been a better option though. Not sure why i didnt pick that. -_-
2024-03-05T11:15:37 < Steffanx> Unless the prices of 9000R suddenly dropped between somewhere between 3 weeks ago and now.
2024-03-05T11:31:15 < zyp> qyx, haven't tried 9000R, I tried the black one and 8111X
2024-03-05T11:31:49 < zyp> black one seemed reasonable enough, 8111X is translucent enough that LEDs will bleed through
2024-03-05T11:32:16 < zyp> jpa-, they're SLS PA12, not MJF
2024-03-05T11:32:59 < zyp> I've tried jlc's SLS and MJF too, and they're not as nice as the SLS we're using for orbtrace
2024-03-05T11:33:49 < zyp> jlc doesn't offer any surface treatment afterwards
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2024-03-05T11:53:33 < qyx> ok I guess I'll try more than one option too :p
2024-03-05T11:56:37 < zyp> they're cheap enough you can just run the same model in all the likely candidates and do a side by side comparison
2024-03-05T11:58:37 < qyx> in the end it doesn't matter much because it will be cnc milled from alu
2024-03-05T11:59:16 < karlp> a brand new board with those funky strapped down micro usb connectors: https://www.infineon.com/export/sites/default/_images/product/evaluation-boards/CY8CPROTO-062S2-43439.png_1391673358.png
2024-03-05T11:59:18 < qyx> I just need to test 4 components of a single enclosure if they play together correctly
2024-03-05T12:03:33 < karlp> downlaoded bom says it's a plain amphenol / fci https://www.amphenol-cs.com/product/101181940001lf.html which has through hole mounting stubs alreayd
2024-03-05T12:03:40 < karlp> so those straps are secondary pcba process?!
2024-03-05T12:04:18 < karlp> someone who cam eto infineion with cypress/spansion has been burnt _hard_ by someone ripping a micro usb connector off the board.
2024-03-05T12:05:29 < karlp> like, that's even the part part number that we have in zypsnips.
2024-03-05T12:09:17 < jpa-> lol
2024-03-05T12:13:46 < zyp> nice
2024-03-05T12:27:00 < Steffanx> not a huuuge difference. (SLS vs MJF though) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JsnTPTgQ/1000018145.jpg
2024-03-05T12:28:01 < Steffanx> from this side the jlc MJF part is a little rougher. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/KhkYnjAJ/1000018146.jpg
2024-03-05T12:46:02 < jpa-> last night i had a dream i decided to start a new career as singer.. it sounded horrible and i tried to find some autotune software from warez sites :)
2024-03-05T12:46:37 < Steffanx> You should pursue this dream jpa-
2024-03-05T12:48:46 < Steffanx> Maybe a new edition of Säkkijärven polkka?
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2024-03-05T13:14:49 < machinehum> What would you guys say to someone that wanted to put one of those chonky platic ac/dc modules on top of a bunch of other SMD electronics?
2024-03-05T13:19:37 < Steffanx> "I'm the software engineer, you're the hardware engineer. Good luck!" :P
2024-03-05T13:19:53 < machinehum> lol
2024-03-05T13:59:00 < englishman> stm32vision awards
2024-03-05T14:21:59 < jpa-> gah, why the fuck do JAE DX07S016 and XKB U262-16XN  USB-C connectors have the exact same footprint, except they switch the order of CC vs. SBU pins
2024-03-05T14:24:17 < jpa-> looks like USB4105 matches XKB U262, so i'll rule DX07S016 as "never use this garbage again"
2024-03-05T14:24:26 < jpa-> kind of like the SOT23-5 regulators with the wrong pinout
2024-03-05T14:25:22 < karlp> xkbu262 and gct 4105 are what we have in zypsnips too...
2024-03-05T14:25:52 < jpa-> i always thought they are all the same
2024-03-05T14:25:56 < karlp> lol.
2024-03-05T14:26:05 < karlp> they're more the same thatn rj45 jacks, but not that good.
2024-03-05T14:27:08 < karlp> hrm, 5µOhm shunts. those sounds cute.
2024-03-05T14:29:06 < jpa-> two sense traces next to each other on a 10 mm wide track? :)
2024-03-05T14:34:14 < karlp> no, some fancy product literature for 1000 A busbar shunts.
2024-03-05T14:52:12 < qyx> back in the energy business?
2024-03-05T14:54:59 < karlp> no, just procrasintation looking at emails.
2024-03-05T14:55:06 < karlp> tiva usb today.
2024-03-05T14:55:32 < qyx> tell me about procrastination
2024-03-05T14:55:56 < qyx> where is my ardweeno project
2024-03-05T14:56:15 < qyx> stuck on the way probably
2024-03-05T14:56:46 < qyx> also we had an aurora last night but I didn't see anything
2024-03-05T14:59:06 < karlp> I have some code here that is saying "gcc's built in stdint.h doesn't define things that newlibs inttypes.h depends on"
2024-03-05T14:59:24 < karlp> and they have a weird #include <sys/types.h> #include_next <inttpes.h>
2024-03-05T14:59:35 < karlp> I wonder what gcc that must have been a workaround for?!
2024-03-05T14:59:52 < karlp> some hint about __int64_t_defined not existing.
2024-03-05T15:00:01 < karlp> and this commit with this "workaround" is from 2021?!
2024-03-05T15:19:35 < karlp> fucking hell. if I remove the workaround it fails to compile, but it clearly compiles cleanly on godbolt and in a sstandalone compiled blob.
2024-03-05T15:19:49 < karlp> theres gonna be some super dodgy code somewhere I haven't found yet...
2024-03-05T15:24:03 < karlp> oh wow. neat.  so with -ffrestanding, you can have PRIx8/16/32, but not 64.
2024-03-05T15:25:20 < karlp> fixed in 11.4 and later.
2024-03-05T15:25:22 < karlp> cute.
2024-03-05T15:26:25 < karlp> hang on, I have 12.3 locally.
2024-03-05T15:27:48 < karlp> https://godbolt.org/z/4GTTrvbMh for m4 at least. 
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2024-03-05T15:38:31 < karlp> holyshit, the order of includes for inttypes and stdio and stdint matters.
2024-03-05T15:38:42 < karlp> goddamn, I thought alphabetical was fine fo rthose.
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2024-03-05T15:55:13 < karlp> fucking hell, godbolt and me locally get different results.
2024-03-05T15:56:35 < karlp> fun times: https://godbolt.org/z/fqdPPsso5
2024-03-05T16:02:37 < karlp> quite annoyed that I get different behaviour locally though. that's super weird.
2024-03-05T16:21:49 < karlp> it's gone backwards in 12.3. this is so weird.
2024-03-05T16:21:55 < karlp> I should just shut my eyes and ignore this.
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2024-03-05T16:45:01 < karlp> I can't help it. godbolt the "correct" ordering works from arm gcc 5 up to 13, and everywhere in between.
2024-03-05T16:45:14 < karlp> locally, 10.3 works, 11.2 works 12.3 and 13.2 don't work.
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2024-03-05T16:47:37 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zyXwn
2024-03-05T16:49:36 < karlp> I adore the offer to patch #include <inttypes.h> directly after the #include <inttypes.h> as well. very tasteful.
2024-03-05T16:49:57 < zyp> :)
2024-03-05T16:55:54 < karlp> lol, openthread ran into this as well, and just replaced PRIx64 with llu....
2024-03-05T16:59:05 < jpa-> i hate PRIx64 so much
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2024-03-05T17:19:58 < karlp> well, I hate the "noooo, that's a uint32_t, you can't just use %u to print it!" even more...
2024-03-05T17:20:11 < karlp> %u is only for unsigned ints! 
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2024-03-05T17:20:19 < karlp> how is uint32_t define mofo?!
2024-03-05T17:20:56 < jpa-> i just cast to (unsigned) in the argument
2024-03-05T17:21:09 < jpa-> or use C++
2024-03-05T17:21:33 < mawk> [16:19:58] <karlp> well, I hate the "noooo, that's a uint32_t, you can't just use %u to print it!" even more...
2024-03-05T17:21:38 < mawk> it just complains when it's the wrong type
2024-03-05T17:21:57 < mawk> so if you use the right type for your target it stops complaining
2024-03-05T17:22:01 < mawk> probably %lu here
2024-03-05T17:22:12 < mawk> but then if you run unit tests on x86_64 it will start complaining again
2024-03-05T17:22:30 < mawk> and then you try to introduce the PRIx64 bullshit and your coworkers raise an insurrection against you because it's so ugly
2024-03-05T17:22:37 < jpa-> and for cortex-m, long unsigned == unsigned, but it still complains
2024-03-05T17:22:41 < mawk> so then you give up and disable formatting warnings
2024-03-05T17:23:01 < mawk> yeah just like char is different from both unsigned char and signed char I guess
2024-03-05T17:23:18 < karlp> fucking, don't get distracted with uint32t, fix my PRIx64 shit :)
2024-03-05T17:23:45 < karlp> mawk: the problem isn' ttheh ugly, the probme is it isn't recognised...
2024-03-05T17:23:56 < jpa-> printf("%llu", (unsigned long long)myarg);   fixed
2024-03-05T17:24:12 < mawk> what is your -std setting 
2024-03-05T17:24:18 < karlp> it doens't amtter.
2024-03-05T17:24:34 < karlp> read the pastes I posted above.
2024-03-05T17:25:17 < qyx> %lul works for uint32_t for me
2024-03-05T17:25:19 < karlp> so freestanding means it' sonly required to provide stdint, not inttypes, but it still _has_ inttypes, just.... "less" as far as I can tell.
2024-03-05T17:25:28 < qyx> sorry %lu
2024-03-05T17:25:31 < jpa-> %luls
2024-03-05T17:26:55 < jbo> Steffanx, has a lul too
2024-03-05T17:28:12 < jpa-> jbo: don't you mean a %lld? it sure is a long long, but i think it is 2's complement
2024-03-05T17:28:23 < mawk> if you include <sys/types.h> before everything else does the ordering still matter?
2024-03-05T17:28:29 < Steffanx> What kind of inappropriate statement is that jbo ?
2024-03-05T17:28:35 < karlp> mawk: that's the workaround that someone hwere did.
2024-03-05T17:28:53 < karlp> added a "fixtypes" include that includes sys/types, then include_next inttypes
2024-03-05T17:29:31 < jpa-> just add  -include "sys/types.h"  into compile flags and be done with it ;)
2024-03-05T17:30:37 < karlp> I just... don't see why that shuld be needed and why it's gotten worse in newer compilers, and why godbolt is different to me.
2024-03-05T17:31:07 < karlp> like, it's only the 64bit ones.  the 32/16/8 bit versions are there, 
2024-03-05T17:31:25 < jbo> Steffanx :-*
2024-03-05T17:31:32 < mawk> __int64_t_defined is the macro that is ultimately defined by sys/types.h, and which inttypes.h is checking for defined PRIx64
2024-03-05T17:32:08 < mawk> if you report it maybe someone will fix it, or maybe it was undefined behavior all along
2024-03-05T17:42:06 < qyx> speaking of uint64_t, last time it simply didn't work for me
2024-03-05T17:42:19 < qyx> but I hadn't time nor willingness to investigate it further
2024-03-05T17:42:37 < qyx> it was just giving bad results
2024-03-05T17:42:53 < qyx> never happened to me before
2024-03-05T17:43:13 < mawk> it needs compiler support since you don't have a 64 bits register, but unless you maimed your toolchain it should be transparent
2024-03-05T17:43:19 < mawk> unless you give -ffreestanding and so on like here
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2024-03-05T18:37:35 < Laurenceb_> supp
2024-03-05T18:37:47 < Laurenceb_> does anyone know a way to run java applets on windozer 10  ?
2024-03-05T18:39:24 < specing> Laurenceb_: put GNU into a virtualbox?
2024-03-05T18:39:28 < specing> and run them there?
2024-03-05T18:39:39 < Laurenceb_> sounds tricky
2024-03-05T18:39:46 < specing> Why
2024-03-05T18:39:47 < Laurenceb_> also not my pc
2024-03-05T18:39:57 < specing> not your pc not your problem XD
2024-03-05T18:40:01 < Laurenceb_> specing: only way to connect to old hardware
2024-03-05T18:40:10 < Laurenceb_> specing: I'm on tech support duty lol
2024-03-05T18:40:35 < Laurenceb_> apparently only way to connect to dashboard computer on a TGV
2024-03-05T18:41:00 < specing> tell customer to install GNU and to stop bothering you with windoze nonsense
2024-03-05T18:41:04 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2024-03-05T18:42:21 < specing> TICKET CLOSED UNSUPPORTED OS WONTFIX
2024-03-05T18:42:23 < specing> there you go
2024-03-05T18:42:42 < Steffanx> You're not being helpful specing 
2024-03-05T18:42:48 < specing> can put OBSOLETE OS there for good measure
2024-03-05T18:44:15 < Laurenceb_> apparently ie11 will run it, but ie11 wont load, weird
2024-03-05T18:44:24 < Laurenceb_> just takes me to msn home page in edge
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2024-03-05T19:14:28 < qyx> install java and use javaws instead of a browser?
2024-03-05T19:15:02 < qyx> for jnlp or how is it called
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2024-03-05T21:24:19 < Laurenceb_> >muh java applets will run anywhere forever
2024-03-05T21:35:19 < mawk> Laurenceb_: you need the JRE of the right version
2024-03-05T21:35:28 < mawk> but it's not impossible
2024-03-05T21:35:31 < mawk> what are you trying to run
2024-03-05T21:35:42 < mawk> and why are you trying to connect to a TGV
2024-03-05T21:35:46 < mawk> did your boss buy a TGV
2024-03-05T21:35:47 < mawk> send pics
2024-03-05T21:36:21 < mawk> https://leaningtech.com/cheerpj-applet-runner/ have you tried this Laurenceb_ 
2024-03-05T21:36:59 < mawk> and otherwise https://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp for the actual JRE
2024-03-05T21:37:08 < mawk> and otherwise you have https://openjdk.org/
2024-03-05T21:37:12 < mawk> make your pic
2024-03-05T21:37:14 < mawk> k
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2024-03-05T21:49:15 < Laurenceb_> mawk: nope wurk needs to fix a TGV
2024-03-05T21:49:36 < Laurenceb_> google chrome can actually load it, google went up in my opinion.. very slightly
2024-03-05T21:50:12 < Laurenceb_> but it doesnt fully load, however, that might be a symptom of the issue, the firmware might be corrupted, we will try with other locos tomorrow
2024-03-05T21:51:58 < Laurenceb_> something is wrong with the unit we were testing - it wouldnt connect to staff control terminals over on train lan, but it would connect to win10 laptop so ethernet is obviously running ok
2024-03-05T21:52:10 < Laurenceb_> well - seems to be running fairly well anyway
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2024-03-05T21:54:52 < Laurenceb_> there are funny features - it can be used to lock the drivers door, presumably to stop a train hijacking lmao
2024-03-05T21:55:59 < Laurenceb_> also computer vision person trapped in door detection whilst train is moving
2024-03-05T21:56:54 < Laurenceb_> AMCC powerpc running freebsd
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2024-03-05T22:22:58 < mawk> o
2024-03-05T22:26:00 < specing> Laurenceb_: what a trainwreck
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2024-03-05T23:38:23 < mawk> even when I set -mfloat-abi=hard in the stm32cubeide settings apparently the FPU doesn't get set up
2024-03-05T23:38:39 < mawk> because the define __SOFT_FP__ still gets defined, according to eclipse
2024-03-05T23:41:30 < mawk> aa anyway it doesn't matter, apparently I can't use the fpu because some library I use wasn't compiled to expect fpu register arguments or something
2024-03-05T23:41:38 < mawk> can't gcc be smart enough to do that by itself
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2024-03-05T23:59:47 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.esmailelbob.xyz/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvR0g0ek5USFdnQUFOWnJkLnBuZw==
2024-03-05T23:59:48 < Laurenceb_> kekking
--- Day changed ke maalis 06 2024
2024-03-06T00:02:21 < Laurenceb_> lulwut https://nitter.esmailelbob.xyz/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvR0g0WGMtdlhvQUFKNFJCLnBuZw==
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2024-03-06T10:32:50 < zyp> karlp, you've been working with quectel stuff, right? are there any common gotchas with them?
2024-03-06T11:06:05 < karlp> I've not worked with them enough to know anything common, 
2024-03-06T11:06:21 < karlp> just that it's a goddamn shitshow of shitty half arsed tools in all directions.
2024-03-06T11:06:33 < karlp> modemmanager "just worked" for me, 
2024-03-06T11:06:49 < karlp> uqmi, openwrt's "modemmamnager+glib is toobig" option .... just didn't
2024-03-06T11:06:59 < karlp> looking inside the box of either of them willgive you nightmares.
2024-03-06T11:08:02 < zyp> I'll be using it with a microcontroller, not linux
2024-03-06T11:08:14 < karlp> that sounds like a recipe for a fun time.
2024-03-06T11:08:17 < zyp> :)
2024-03-06T11:08:27 < zyp> we're sticking EG800Q in a product we're working on
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2024-03-06T11:09:02 < karlp> you'll be copying a lot of oddly pieced together sample code, that all uses different interfaces, and tryin to work out which ones work together and which are complementary
2024-03-06T11:09:25 < karlp> should I  use AT? QMI? MBIM? both? some mix? at diferent stages?
2024-03-06T11:09:39 < zyp> normally we'd use nrf9160 or something, but this thing might go to locations that doesn't have LTE Cat-M/NB
2024-03-06T11:10:00 < karlp> yeah, I'm not sure of the future of cat-m.
2024-03-06T11:10:07 < karlp> the modems are still not cheap enough.
2024-03-06T11:10:12 < karlp> nor are the plans.
2024-03-06T11:10:16 < karlp> but maybe it's getting better.
2024-03-06T11:10:31 < karlp> lte-cat1bis is comign down to eat it,
2024-03-06T11:10:34 < karlp> but.. not my field anymore.
2024-03-06T11:10:38 < zyp> what's «not cheap» to you?
2024-03-06T11:10:45 < karlp> at least, not right now.
2024-03-06T11:11:06 < karlp> lte-cat1bis is down to under $10 or so. last I spoke to cavli.
2024-03-06T11:11:16 < karlp> lte-m was like 6 or 7.
2024-03-06T11:11:25 < karlp> nrf91 is cheaper I take it?
2024-03-06T11:11:36 < zyp> and yeah, AIUI EG800Q is quectel's cheapest cat1bis module
2024-03-06T11:11:45 < zyp> idk what we was quoted for it
2024-03-06T11:12:14 < zyp> I generally don't deal with sourcing, I deal with making stuff work
2024-03-06T11:12:26 < karlp> to put up with the whole different world of lte-m or nbiot and the wayyyy less bandwidth, it needs to be way cheaper than lte, IMO.
2024-03-06T11:12:43 < karlp> with lte-cat1[bis] everyone understands it, it works everywhere, 
2024-03-06T11:13:11 < karlp> cat-m is "ohhhh, you're industrial? and you want our reliable low abndwidth netowkr? special price for you my friend, and special agreements"
2024-03-06T11:13:20  * karlp shrugs
2024-03-06T11:13:34 < karlp> we never went to market with the 4g device anyway, died with it on my desk.
2024-03-06T11:13:43 < zyp> idk, price is not the only benefits
2024-03-06T11:14:26 < zyp> seems to me that cat-m/nb-iot draws less power too
2024-03-06T11:14:34 < karlp> I mean, I can see uses for it, but as a "my itnernet connection for my iiot device" I found it to be a pretty shit option.
2024-03-06T11:14:51 < zyp> we've got a bunch of battery powered nrf91 projects
2024-03-06T11:15:36 < karlp> and I get a bunch of IO modules with xmc4800 that takes to reivision C to get i2c lines the right way around.
2024-03-06T11:15:53 < zyp> heh
2024-03-06T11:17:42 < zyp> speaking of lte-m, I'm working on another project that's got a mcu talking to a sim7080
2024-03-06T11:18:44 < zyp> I have no idea how it ended up there beyond that that's what the customer asked for
2024-03-06T11:19:23 < zyp> and using its AT interface to do HTTP requests is a shitshow
2024-03-06T11:20:52 < zyp> shit's poorly documented and if you do something it disagrees ever so slightly with, you simply get an ERROR without further elaboration
2024-03-06T11:27:54 < karlp> yeha, I see people trying to use modems with tcp over AT commands it just sounds like a trainwreck.
2024-03-06T11:28:08 < karlp> like, I'm sure you can make it work, we did in the 90s, but.. ffs, it's not the 90s.
2024-03-06T11:28:34 < karlp> shit like esp8266 and some of the other little modules still come with AT firmware out of the box.
2024-03-06T11:34:44 < qyx> zyp: I have a freertos'd driver for m66fa tested 4y in field, it gave me all sorts of diseases the first year
2024-03-06T11:35:21 < qyx> it also does tcp over at commands
2024-03-06T11:35:30 < karlp> yeah, qyx has done way more with quacktel in practice than I ever have I think.
2024-03-06T11:35:41 < qyx> idk if they are the same nowadays
2024-03-06T11:36:07 < qyx> then I used wolfmqtt iver that tcp and it even worked
2024-03-06T11:37:25 < karlp> that eg800q is listed at 18pounds on digikey, wheee.
2024-03-06T11:38:13 < karlp> I guess that's a bargain, I think the modems we bought for ~17 or so from quakctel were like 45 on digikey.
2024-03-06T11:41:09 < zyp> hmm, looks like we haven't got a quote yet, guy we talked to said list price was $12.5 @250
2024-03-06T11:44:05 < zyp> qyx, how many signals are you using to interface with it? which of the sideband signals are interesting?
2024-03-06T11:44:36 < zyp> coworker is doing schematic on this thing and asking me which signals we should hook up
2024-03-06T11:49:26 < qyx> I'll check in the evening, pretty sure I didn't use the full uart, but dtr is needed to wake the thing up (this feature can be disabled with a command)
2024-03-06T11:49:41 < qyx> older required pwrkey, newer apparently not (tied to gnd)
2024-03-06T11:50:04 < qyx> and beware of signal levels, I failed twice
2024-03-06T11:59:22 < karlp> fuckin. outsource manufacturing they say. save costs they say.
2024-03-06T11:59:51 < karlp> someone wayyyy above me, in the past selected some dutch CM, and on current projects, the prices they're charging are just eye watering.
2024-03-06T12:00:09 < karlp> simply assembling some modules into their case is quoting 25 euro.
2024-03-06T12:00:22 < karlp> we timed ourselves doing it, including checking it was ~35 seconds.
2024-03-06T12:00:29 < karlp> I've been quoted 1€/min in the past,
2024-03-06T12:00:37 < karlp> even with 200% inflation, this is just taking the piss
2024-03-06T12:02:42 < zyp> hah
2024-03-06T12:14:38 < Steffanx> Hah, someone thought it was acceptable in the past
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2024-03-06T13:25:52 < ventYl> or the supplier is just exploiting the hassle your company would have go through to select another manufacturer.
2024-03-06T13:33:14 < karlp> correct.
2024-03-06T13:33:23 < karlp> but this is way above my level of intereference at this company.
2024-03-06T13:43:20 < Steffanx> but still.. apparently it's accepted. 
2024-03-06T14:01:02 < ventYl> psychologically, this is probably a lot of hassle, that's why
2024-03-06T14:07:19 < Steffanx> 35 seconds doesn't sound like a lot of hassle. Unless you can't do it in Iceland and requires a lot of paper work etc.
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2024-03-06T14:08:19 < Steffanx> Unless you only make a few. A few times 25 euro bucks isn't a lot
2024-03-06T14:11:51 < karlp> no, but that's just one line item :)
2024-03-06T14:12:16 < karlp> so apparently we used to have our own pick and place, do all our own manufacturing and assembly and test in house.
2024-03-06T14:12:59 < karlp> that was all outsourced some years back, and some of the people on my current team apparently fought hard against this, predicted what has come to be, and were reprimande dand told to go about their business...
2024-03-06T14:13:40 < karlp> so our "lab" for instance ahs a fucking giant west german PCB cutting machine that someone felt was worth rescuiing, but is really just a boat anchor..
2024-03-06T14:14:34 < karlp> if anything it's just indicative of the "this is fine (everything's on fire)" mentality I saw the day I walked in.
2024-03-06T14:17:24 < karlp> bitbucket still says everything's fine too, but I can't fetch any repos via git+ssh, only via https
2024-03-06T14:32:56 < ventYl> Steffanx: I thought more of psychological hassle of: oh noes, we dump this supplier and we have to search for another. what if they won't be cheaper and how about transferring the manufacturing, delays, issues, etc.
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2024-03-06T16:49:12 < jbo> moin
2024-03-06T16:52:38 < Steffanx> Gooday sir mr jbo . How's it hanging?
2024-03-06T16:54:05 < jbo> hanging well
2024-03-06T16:54:06 < jbo> there?
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2024-03-06T17:34:49 < karlp> heh, ti example code has special case for Code composter, (a ti product) to use assembly instead of C, to prevent the Ti compiler from doing, their words "funny things" with the optimizer.
2024-03-06T17:34:54 < karlp> vendors are the bestest
2024-03-06T17:41:30 < jbo> <3
2024-03-06T17:41:30 < jpa-> when you are forced to eat your own dogfood, at least add some ketchup
2024-03-06T17:45:21 < aandrew> karlp: tell me about your bitbucket issue
2024-03-06T17:45:37 < aandrew> we're having trouble wiht some of the team here, ssh works fine for me though
2024-03-06T17:49:31 < karlp> it's back up again. something earlier today presumably
2024-03-06T17:49:46 < karlp> git ssh was just timing out, and web was failing to SSO via azure, 
2024-03-06T17:50:14 < karlp> then for another hour maybe I could loging via SSO to the web bitbucket, but not via git+ssh
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2024-03-06T18:30:14 < Steffanx> Could be worse, jbo 
2024-03-06T19:00:28 < qyx> it is worse
2024-03-06T19:00:35 < qyx> but could be even worse
2024-03-06T19:00:50 < qyx> jbo: microphones working?
2024-03-06T19:05:45 < Steffanx> Eye surgeries suck, qyx. So it could be worse, could be better ;)
2024-03-06T19:07:10 < Steffanx> This time it was less fun than the other time.
2024-03-06T19:09:25 < emeb_mac> 100%
2024-03-06T19:12:40 < qyx> Steffanx: did you allow them to laser your eye?
2024-03-06T19:14:53 < Steffanx> No, they cut a piece out. Then cut another piece out and glued/stitch it over the part the removed first. 😬😬
2024-03-06T19:15:02 < Steffanx> Stitched*
2024-03-06T19:23:18 < qyx> don't let then hurt you
2024-03-06T19:23:26 < qyx> be strong
2024-03-06T19:26:54 < Steffanx> Lol, it was for my own good.  
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2024-03-06T20:32:22 < qyx> so, let's do something with this ardweeno stuff
2024-03-06T21:07:29 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KbbNW
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2024-03-06T21:26:26 < Laurenceb_> sup trawls
2024-03-06T21:26:46  * Laurenceb_ found old Sun Java installer exe on a random server
2024-03-06T21:26:51 < Laurenceb_> TGV fixed
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2024-03-06T22:56:22 < Steffanx> Whats repo with the most recent laks adventures zyp ? Still one on jvnv.net?
2024-03-06T22:57:35 < Steffanx> or is karlp the one with the most laks adventures nowadays?
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2024-03-06T23:10:17 < qyx> half dun https://bin.jvnv.net/file/9SrFW
2024-03-06T23:10:39 < qyx> this is how they taught us single use industrial electronics
2024-03-06T23:11:37 < qyx> some wires, protoboard, some chink quality modules and put it in a heavy enclosure, with some industrial connectors ang cable glands, use some heatshrink and wire ties
2024-03-06T23:11:40 < qyx> done
2024-03-06T23:15:45 < qyx> We found 960.73MB of unnecessary PlatformIO system data (temporary files, unnecessary packages, etc.).
2024-03-06T23:15:48 < qyx> nice to know
2024-03-06T23:15:56 < qyx> wher eis Jan-, I need hjalp
2024-03-06T23:16:29 < qyx> whois Jan-
2024-03-06T23:16:32 < qyx> sorry
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2024-03-06T23:48:44 < Steffanx> Good old jan-
2024-03-06T23:49:38 < qyx> was she old
2024-03-06T23:52:36 < qyx> what pwm freq should I use to drive a fan?
2024-03-06T23:54:39 < qyx> hm apparently a 2wire fan cannot be PWM'd?
--- Day changed to maalis 07 2024
2024-03-07T00:03:17 < Steffanx> I'm not even sure if jan- was a she.
2024-03-07T00:08:01 < qyx> true, you can never be sure
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2024-03-07T00:15:13 < Steffanx> Lol true, but in this case I was just confused 
2024-03-07T00:17:39 < qyx> idk she said janice
2024-03-07T00:17:48 < qyx> I remember there was a talk about this
2024-03-07T00:17:59 < qyx> someone was examining the situation
2024-03-07T00:20:15 < jbo> whoop whoop
2024-03-07T00:38:04 < karlp> Steffanx: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/log/?h=dev_v2 is still "upstream" I'm not trying to suggest a fork or anything.
2024-03-07T00:38:40 < karlp> if you happen to need ch58x or kinetis k6x/k70, then my forks have extra stuff.
2024-03-07T00:39:59 < zyp> should probably take another round merging stuff soon
2024-03-07T00:41:00 < karlp> most of my ch58x stuff is relatively stable, I'm doing a few things this week hopefully.
2024-03-07T00:43:57 < karlp> some of the kinetis stuff is "stable" but not very pretty as far as nice clean merge history.
2024-03-07T00:44:17 < karlp> I'm not doing anything further with it though, that was for work, as a PoC, remains to be seen where it goes.
2024-03-07T00:44:33 < karlp> I've got ~zero interest in doign old kinetis stuff for personal use.
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2024-03-07T11:36:10 < Steffanx> Karlp: Ah thanks let me check that out later today. To mess around with some L412
2024-03-07T11:41:46 < karlp> zyp: I'm looking at my wch logs,there's definitely some thigns that could be squished to get rid of errors that were fixed along the way...
2024-03-07T11:52:45 < jpa-> meh, STM32L151 not having separate vbat input, i was planning on just going into standby in PVD interrupt, but looks like it is rather slow
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2024-03-07T16:02:17 < jpa-> hmm, i bought WSU-30M wirewrap tool, from now on i'll just wirewrap everything
2024-03-07T16:02:30 < jpa-> beats crappy dupont wires any time
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2024-03-07T17:10:10 < qyx> lol
2024-03-07T17:10:28 < qyx> how will you disconnect it
2024-03-07T17:12:42 < mawk> jpa- goes back to the 80s
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2024-03-07T17:40:55 < jpa-> qyx: use the other end and rotate counterclockwise
2024-03-07T17:41:11 < jpa-> mawk: good enough for apollo, good enough for me
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2024-03-07T17:44:44 < Steffanx> mawk only likes dupont because semi-french.
2024-03-07T17:45:29 < Steffanx> Mawk is so french. He even rotated the dutch flag he has at home 90 degrees 
2024-03-07T17:58:08 < BrainDamage> I have a wire wrap tool too, but I use it in a bit of weird way
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2024-03-07T17:59:01  * Laurenceb_ has a weird issue
2024-03-07T17:59:08 < jbo> BrainDamage, sexy times?
2024-03-07T17:59:18 < Laurenceb_> olimexino stm32 locks up somewhere in CAN rx
2024-03-07T17:59:26 < Laurenceb_> but not if USB is plugged in
2024-03-07T17:59:33 < BrainDamage> I take super thin enameled magnet wire, the enamel is so thin that solder melts it, I use it to place on-the-fly-but-reliabile test points on the board, and the connect the other end, I wire wrap to a binding post and then add a drop of solder
2024-03-07T17:59:42 < Laurenceb_> makes no sense from schematic https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/STM32/OLIMEXINO-STM32/resources/OLIMEXINO-STM32.pdf
2024-03-07T17:59:48 < Laurenceb_> I prob need to make a jtag lead for it
2024-03-07T18:00:17 < BrainDamage> it's super fast and pretty reliable
2024-03-07T18:00:17 < Laurenceb_> I'm using this library https://github.com/karl-dietmann/STM32_CAN/tree/main
2024-03-07T18:00:42 < Laurenceb_> it seems received CAN packets cause the problem, if its on a CAN bus with no other device talking then the issue does not appear
2024-03-07T18:00:46 < BrainDamage> some timer used by both libs?
2024-03-07T18:01:02 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: the USB is disabled
2024-03-07T18:01:04 < BrainDamage> like, the other lib resets the timer, so there's no hang
2024-03-07T18:01:30 < Laurenceb_> its F1 so CAN and USB cant run at the same time
2024-03-07T18:01:59 < jpa-> BrainDamage: i've been meaning to get some of that meltable magnet wire too
2024-03-07T18:04:13 < fenugrec> I wonder if there's "grades" of meltable enamel, I have a few different gauges here but it takes a lot of heat and time to melt, and lots of flux to clean up the mess
2024-03-07T18:04:16 < Laurenceb_> I cant see how USB could have any effect, yet it does
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2024-03-07T18:40:03 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2024-03-07T18:40:07 < Laurenceb_> 5V rail is fine
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2024-03-07T21:42:51  * Laurenceb_ still has really weird issue
2024-03-07T21:43:20 < Laurenceb_> need to make a jtag lead for this board... but CAN seems to hardfault when USB is _not_ connected
2024-03-07T21:43:23 < Laurenceb_> very wtf
2024-03-07T21:44:06 < qyx> maybe you are forgetting to init something which usb does?
2024-03-07T21:44:10 < Steffanx> Probably not WTF at all.
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2024-03-07T21:44:40 < Steffanx> Usually hardfaults make sense when you  found out why it happens.
2024-03-07T21:44:40 < qyx> but idk what youaredoi g
2024-03-07T21:45:34 < Laurenceb_> I'm using tarduino libs
2024-03-07T21:46:07 < Steffanx> There you go
2024-03-07T21:46:11 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-03-07T21:46:13 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/karl-dietmann/STM32_CAN/blob/main/README.md
2024-03-07T21:46:18 < Steffanx> At least you admit it :)
2024-03-07T21:46:52 < Steffanx> Anyway, get that jtag/swd out and debug it properly
2024-03-07T21:47:03 < Laurenceb_> looks like the hardfault must be in the rx handler, as it occurs without anything being sent from the stm32
2024-03-07T21:47:56 < Laurenceb_> looks like its usb data lines that cause the issue to go away - if I connect just 5V it makes no difference
2024-03-07T21:48:05 < Steffanx> Add some printfs and print all registers on hardfault. 
2024-03-07T21:48:11 < Steffanx> printf debugging <3
2024-03-07T21:49:41 < Laurenceb_> if I unplug the usb it breaks after about 1 second
2024-03-07T21:51:31 < Steffanx> Does it do vbus detection and then tries to do usb or something?
2024-03-07T21:55:58 < Laurenceb_> I'm pretty sure not as I disable USB support in tarduino
2024-03-07T21:56:16 < Laurenceb_> also its F1 so wont compile with CAN and USB enabled at the same time
2024-03-07T21:58:21 < Steffanx> So what is stopping you from attaching an actual debugger?
2024-03-07T21:59:02 < Laurenceb_> dont have the right cable lol - its not my device, trying to help remotely
2024-03-07T21:59:37 < Laurenceb_> think I will have to send them a cable lol - I've seen the behaviour on video its really weird
2024-03-07T22:00:03 < Laurenceb_> instantly starts working when usb is plugged in, but 5V rail is fine all the time
2024-03-07T22:00:04 < Steffanx> its not weird.
2024-03-07T22:00:48 < Laurenceb_> one of these - no mods to the board https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/STM32/OLIMEXINO-STM32/resources/OLIMEXINO-STM32.pdf
2024-03-07T22:00:49 < Steffanx> Once  you attached that debugger and see what happens, you will make them bang their head to the wall.
2024-03-07T22:00:59 < Steffanx> against
2024-03-07T22:01:36 < Laurenceb_> there is 5V on the CAN cable that is connected to the barrel jack
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2024-03-07T22:23:14 < qyx> karlp: device with fully passive inputs is still considered cat1?
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2024-03-07T22:24:28 < qyx> sorry, there is no I, it is 0
2024-03-07T22:25:08 < qyx> but it is powered by a selv/pelv supply
2024-03-07T22:42:23 < Laurenceb_> I may have an answer - I think they have swarf on their PCB
2024-03-07T22:42:45 < Laurenceb_> CANRX might be shorted to USB
2024-03-07T22:44:02 < qyx> that should not be a reason for hardfault, if you are even getting it
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2024-03-07T22:48:38 < Laurenceb_> maybe CAN is looping...
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2024-03-07T22:59:44 < Laurenceb_> hmm nope doesnt really explain the failure mode
2024-03-07T23:05:30 < Laurenceb_> but that + damage to transceiver might just cause issues, I'm suspecting a board issue
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2024-03-07T23:06:06 < Laurenceb_> I tested the board before shipping and it powered up and ran fine with a rpi on the other end of the cable supplying same voltages
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--- Day changed pe maalis 08 2024
2024-03-08T00:17:42 < karlp> qyx: don't ask me, ask what you can convince a notified body about?
2024-03-08T00:20:59 < antto> tell mr Loirence that there's #olimex
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2024-03-08T00:40:23 < Steffanx> They can't help much either, since he won't listen 😝
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2024-03-08T02:16:04 < antto> sounds like he has an ear problem
2024-03-08T02:16:08  * antto gets the plunger
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2024-03-08T03:25:42 < qyx> happy international woman's day!
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2024-03-08T03:26:24 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1cicOSYu8 important video
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2024-03-08T12:48:14 < mawk> I just did firmware update of a SARA-R422S modem
2024-03-08T12:48:23 < mawk> over AT
2024-03-08T12:48:34 < mawk> it takes like 15 minutes to upload the file with xmodem protocol 
2024-03-08T12:48:42 < mawk> and then 30 minutes for the install 
2024-03-08T12:48:49 < mawk> wtf is it doing during 30 minutes 
2024-03-08T12:49:13 < mawk> and if it's anything like the SARA-G340/G350 then if you interrupt it it bricks the device
2024-03-08T12:49:23 < mawk> hopefully that's fixed though 
2024-03-08T12:53:36 < mawk> there is capacity to do an OTA update but it has to be triggered by ublox
2024-03-08T12:53:39 < mawk> pretty weird
2024-03-08T12:54:00 < mawk> their uFOTA stuff
2024-03-08T12:54:25 < mawk> there's also capacity to download a firmware over HTTP/FTP and then install it but you have to host yourself 
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2024-03-08T13:51:28 < Steffanx> mawk: In the mean time you can fix my DAC issue. It's only updated sometimes. And it doesnt matter if i do it by code or just mess with the registers using a debugger. I see the ODR being updated, but it does nothing (most of the time). STM32H563 it is.
2024-03-08T13:51:51 < Steffanx> *DOR, not ODR
2024-03-08T13:53:36 < mawk> o
2024-03-08T13:53:56 < mawk> can you get it to do anything at all? with a example code or something
2024-03-08T13:53:56 < Steffanx> You're not being helpful, mawk 
2024-03-08T13:54:59 < Steffanx> Yes I can make it do something.. but it seems to random when it actually outputs the correct value or not.
2024-03-08T13:55:36 < karlp> hrm, what do you think happens if you don't wait for a 32k crystal oscilator to "stabilize" before turning on the rtc? you just get a bunch of "wrong" clocks right? presumably?
2024-03-08T13:56:33 < karlp> vendor code does a  afull 1000ms delay, to match datashit.  existing code "waits" before turning it on, so... not actually waiting anyway.  (Also, the "wait" was a naiive for loop with no body, so it's optimized out anyway...)
2024-03-08T13:56:49 < qyx> no you freeze because lse_rdy is not set
2024-03-08T13:57:09 < karlp> taht doesn't matter, it will _become_ ready...
2024-03-08T13:57:46 < qyx> I guess you can't set rtc source with lse_rdy off?
2024-03-08T13:57:55 < qyx> because you can't for sysclk
2024-03-08T13:58:02 < karlp> well, not actaully stm32, so... 
2024-03-08T13:58:07 < qyx> oh then idk
2024-03-08T13:58:30 < qyx> yeah it may be non nominal
2024-03-08T13:58:36 < karlp> in kinetis, the 32k oscillator is actually controlled by turning on the rtc.
2024-03-08T13:59:12 < qyx> or not clockig at all if the amplitude is small?
2024-03-08T13:59:24 < qyx> until it reaches the desired level
2024-03-08T13:59:46 < karlp> there doesn't even seem to be a bit for "is the oscillator oscillating" like lse_rdy...
2024-03-08T14:00:06 < karlp> yeah, so I think I don't really care. 
2024-03-08T14:00:32 < karlp> I mean, it's noy like it's going to generate 1million bad clocks or somethign and push the clock forward by more than a couple of seconds or anything.
2024-03-08T14:00:59 < karlp> datashit says 750/1000 ms startup time. 
2024-03-08T14:01:07 < qyx> when you are starting the oscillator you don't have clock set
2024-03-08T14:01:27 < qyx> when you care about the rtc, oscillator is already running
2024-03-08T14:01:33 < karlp> yup. think so.
2024-03-08T14:01:46 < karlp> fucking, external oscillator not crystal anyway. 
2024-03-08T14:02:17 < karlp> though it says startup time of 500ms on it's datashit too.
2024-03-08T14:02:30 < karlp> ok, goign to remove this "delay" code that was getting optimized out anyway.
2024-03-08T14:02:43 < qyx> do it for the greater good
2024-03-08T14:02:49 < karlp> oh yes. 
2024-03-08T14:03:03 < karlp> back into "clean up all the things" instead of usb now.
2024-03-08T14:03:18 < karlp> so, now freertos stackoverflows, because I turned on stackoverflow checking... :)
2024-03-08T14:03:25 < karlp> that's a good thing, I think.
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2024-03-08T14:27:21 < Steffanx> Damn, why am i even TRYING to use the cube when i really shouldn't. Not even for quick and dirty stuff. Thanks for the support mawk. It works now, but I'm still not sure why it didn't before.
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2024-03-08T14:37:59 < mawk> the timecube is pretty usable Steffanx 
2024-03-08T14:38:05 < mawk> you just need to accept it
2024-03-08T14:39:17 < Steffanx> Not when the order of initialization suddenly matters. DAC - ADC doesnt work, ADC - DAC.. works.
2024-03-08T14:42:13 < mawk> you probably did something wrong
2024-03-08T14:42:24 < mawk> cube is infaillible
2024-03-08T14:42:31 < mawk> the best french export after wine
2024-03-08T14:42:31 < Steffanx> It's generated code, so yeah i dont something wrong :P
2024-03-08T14:42:38 < mawk> but you modified it
2024-03-08T14:42:45 < mawk> you broke it
2024-03-08T14:42:48 < mawk> evidently
2024-03-08T14:44:12 < Steffanx> Absolutely.
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2024-03-08T14:53:22 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used platformio on stm32?
2024-03-08T14:53:27 < Laurenceb_> error: 'CAN_HandleTypeDef' has not been declare
2024-03-08T14:57:54 < Steffanx> Include the right header?
2024-03-08T15:09:10 < qyx> why not kube?
2024-03-08T15:23:46 < Laurenceb_> the guy debugging it wants to use tarduino
2024-03-08T15:24:15 < Laurenceb_> its the olimexino-stm32 stuck in a reboot loop, looks like a software issue so we need debug
2024-03-08T15:24:17 < Laurenceb_> No sketch file was found. Please specify the sketch in the arduino.json file
2024-03-08T15:24:18 < Laurenceb_> wtfffffff
2024-03-08T15:28:03 < Laurenceb_> this is unusable trash
2024-03-08T15:29:11 < Laurenceb_> cannot find arduino.h
2024-03-08T15:29:12 < Laurenceb_> nice
2024-03-08T15:33:18 < Laurenceb_> it doesnt get any more fucked than this
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2024-03-08T15:48:49 < Laurenceb_> yeah this is a complete disaster zone
2024-03-08T15:49:01 < Laurenceb_> cannot open source file "STM32_CAN.h"C/C++(1696)
2024-03-08T15:49:11 < Laurenceb_> I have no clue wtf is going on, should stick to lunix
2024-03-08T15:56:10 < Laurenceb_> #include errors detected. Consider updating your compile_commands.json or includePath
2024-03-08T15:56:20 < Laurenceb_> yeah I did that over 9000 times....
2024-03-08T15:58:00 < Laurenceb_> wow
2024-03-08T15:58:05 < Laurenceb_> all headers are errors
2024-03-08T15:58:31 < Laurenceb_> yeah everything is an error
2024-03-08T16:00:18 < Laurenceb_> I give up this is a disaster
2024-03-08T16:01:56 < karlp> try removing some of the spaces?
2024-03-08T16:05:49 < Laurenceb_> yeah I need a strategy for debugging this
2024-03-08T16:05:57 < Laurenceb_> visual studio seems to not know what it is
2024-03-08T16:06:39 < Laurenceb_> every line is an error
2024-03-08T16:09:36 < karlp> lolrencing.
2024-03-08T16:13:31 < Laurenceb_> I'll see if there is an irc
2024-03-08T16:17:11 < Laurenceb_> https://i.postimg.cc/DyNJRNfG/image.png
2024-03-08T16:21:01 < Steffanx> Thats just vscode being unable to find the header.. because it doesnt know where to look.
2024-03-08T16:21:51 < Laurenceb_> yeah but the json files are set up
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2024-03-08T16:25:59 < Laurenceb_> maybe its an error within the internal visual studio config
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2024-03-08T16:42:54 < Laurenceb_> fixed it, one json file was in wrong folder
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2024-03-08T17:07:09 < Steffanx> So the culprit is absolutely in the Cube, mr mawk. First the clock config errors on something it shouldn't error. And then the clock init done by the ADC init is overruled by clock init done by the dac init (it uses the same clock source). 
2024-03-08T17:07:15 < Steffanx> Do you have a direct contact i can blame? :P
2024-03-08T17:07:23 < Steffanx> Since you love the cube
2024-03-08T17:07:30 < mawk> :(
2024-03-08T17:07:36 < Steffanx> *The clock configurator tool
2024-03-08T17:07:52 < mawk> the clock configurator is a marvel of technology 
2024-03-08T17:07:59 < qyx> are you even supposed to use adc and dac at the same time in cube?
2024-03-08T17:08:14 < Steffanx> They "fixed" something in the latest version of the clock config tool that wasnt an error at all.
2024-03-08T17:08:20 < Steffanx> apparently not qyx  :P
2024-03-08T17:08:27 < mawk> and why is the clock configured in ADC/DAC
2024-03-08T17:08:32 < mawk> clock is configured at clock
2024-03-08T17:08:34 < Steffanx> Good question.
2024-03-08T17:08:50 < mawk> only thing in peripherals is enabling the right clock
2024-03-08T17:08:53 < mawk> but not configuring 
2024-03-08T17:09:21 < qyx> which universe are you living in mawk
2024-03-08T17:09:25 < Steffanx> Im not sure either, because once you use the same pll for another peripheral it suddenly moves the config out of the ADC msp init -_-
2024-03-08T17:09:35 < mawk> why qyx
2024-03-08T17:09:38 < Steffanx> but it's kept in the DAC config, at least.. part of it.
2024-03-08T17:09:55 < Steffanx> Mawk lives in Utopia.
2024-03-08T17:10:06 < mawk> dutchlandia
2024-03-08T17:10:13 < Steffanx> The world where even the Cube is considered perfect.
2024-03-08T17:10:23 < Steffanx> No sane world would do that
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2024-03-08T17:13:54 < qyx> oh I got some new bulky connectors to play with
2024-03-08T17:17:08 < Steffanx> Also what? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9D3pqQTq/image.png
2024-03-08T17:18:29 < Steffanx> My eyes aren't perfect, but .. do I pick 0 or 1?
2024-03-08T17:18:29 < qyx> the first one is the default
2024-03-08T17:18:49 < qyx> you can pick either, but 0 is default!
2024-03-08T17:19:09 < Steffanx> Yeah, one bit of free storage i can use for anything.
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2024-03-08T17:52:42 < qyx> oh, u5 have quite a bit of SRAM in the VBAT domain
2024-03-08T17:54:49 < Steffanx> H5 has like 4kbyte.
2024-03-08T17:58:48 < qyx> I can keep the bootloader config there in plain json
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2024-03-08T19:28:06 < qyx> Steffanx: hows h5? hassle to work with like h7?
2024-03-08T19:28:26 < Steffanx> Not when you dont use all the "fancy" features ;)
2024-03-08T19:28:34 < Steffanx> Like mpu, trustzone and what not.
2024-03-08T19:28:49 < Steffanx> Also it doesnt have the L1 cache, so no issues with that either.
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2024-03-08T20:00:42 < qyx> and those weird clock settings?
2024-03-08T20:02:27 < Steffanx> Weird clock settings? 
2024-03-08T20:03:10 < jpa-> H7 has kernel clock selection for many peripherals
2024-03-08T20:03:20 < jpa-> which i agree is done very weirdly
2024-03-08T20:14:01 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Anyone aware of a cheaper alternative to EMC2305 but having same functionality?
2024-03-08T20:16:56 < Steffanx> oh h5 has that too
2024-03-08T20:31:26 < qyx> and that's sad
2024-03-08T20:32:50 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> H5?
2024-03-08T20:33:39 < Steffanx> That wasn't a reply to you ColdKeybo[a]rd . But it's stm32h5 
2024-03-08T20:34:07 < ColdKeybo[a]rd> Thanks. I looked at H5 series and couldn't figure out which one has that xD
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2024-03-08T21:42:37 < Steffanx> I do have some issues with the clocking though. My DAC issue seems to be related to it. The DAC is clocked by the HSI @ 64 MHz, when the HCLK is higher than that 64 MHz it seems to miss updates. The data output register gets updated, but .. nothing happens sometimes. The DAC has bits to add extra delays for > 80 MHz and > 160 MHz , but it doesn't make a difference.
2024-03-08T21:44:06 < Steffanx> Even in the simplest test case where i connected the DAC output to a ADC input to test this automagically.
2024-03-08T21:45:46 < Steffanx> there's the "If the data is updated or a software/hardware trigger event occurs during the non-allowed period, the peripheral behavior is unpredictable" note, but i don't see that being the case here.
2024-03-08T21:48:56 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwFcrZENKs musics
2024-03-08T21:49:31 < Steffanx> Musics dont help me right now nomorekaki  :P
2024-03-08T21:50:03 < nomorekaki> you need to hear the manic melody of that song to pump
2024-03-08T21:56:23 < qyx> have you tried changing the clock to something in sync with sysclk?
2024-03-08T21:57:50 < qyx> hm I don't remember exactly but wasn't there a similar issue with ADC when it was clocked asynchronously?
2024-03-08T21:58:09 < qyx> but it was fixed with some register setting requiring it to delay reading or whatever
2024-03-08T21:58:31 < qyx> 8/10 bullshit probably but I have some faint memory trace
2024-03-08T21:59:08 < Steffanx> With in sync you mean some pll clock by the same source? Perhaps a different freq.?
2024-03-08T21:59:15 < Steffanx> *clocked
2024-03-08T21:59:26 < qyx> yeah same source
2024-03-08T21:59:28 < Steffanx> If yes, then yes.
2024-03-08T21:59:29 < qyx> not the same freq
2024-03-08T21:59:31 < Steffanx> Same issue
2024-03-08T22:00:09 < qyx> si if ADc clock is <= bus clock, it works?
2024-03-08T22:00:20 < Steffanx> In my short test, yes
2024-03-08T22:00:25 < Steffanx> uhm no
2024-03-08T22:00:27 < qyx> sorry DAC
2024-03-08T22:01:32 < Steffanx> That's exactly what i was doing and thats thing that fails. 
2024-03-08T22:01:46 < qyx> have you tried dsb?
2024-03-08T22:02:56 < qyx> reading some interwebs about h5/h7, caches, bus sync
2024-03-08T22:03:43 < qyx> it looks like it is a common problem, although showing off differently, hm
2024-03-08T22:03:46 < Steffanx> Maybe i should stop bothering and just run everything at the same freq. I just want to know why this wouldnt work.
2024-03-08T22:07:25 < qyx> aren't dutchmen supposed to be socialising somewhere out on friday evenings?
2024-03-08T22:07:41 < Steffanx> Not me.
2024-03-08T22:08:43 < Steffanx> The most weird part is that you load data through the holding registers, then a x clocks later it ends up in the Data Output Register. And it DOES end up in the DOR, but ... not on the pin in like 50-70% of the times.
2024-03-08T22:09:08 < Steffanx> *tries
2024-03-08T22:09:21 < qyx> have you checked errata?
2024-03-08T22:09:27 < Steffanx> Yeah, nothing.
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2024-03-08T22:09:47 < qyx> violating max update rate?
2024-03-08T22:10:12 < Steffanx> i update once in 1.1 seconds, so that is unlikely. 
2024-03-08T22:10:23 < qyx> h5 you say
2024-03-08T22:10:26 < Steffanx> Yeah
2024-03-08T22:10:28 < qyx> I don't have any :S
2024-03-08T22:10:46 < Steffanx> It was the cheapest with enough pins and a MAC.
2024-03-08T22:10:50 < Steffanx> And enough wham + flash
2024-03-08T22:10:57 < qyx> I have some h7 though
2024-03-08T22:11:13 < qyx> idk if my burnout allows me playing with that
2024-03-08T22:11:27 < Steffanx> If you don't go with HAL, then its fun
2024-03-08T22:11:58 < qyx> oh I had a minimal example running with locm3
2024-03-08T22:12:50 < Steffanx> i ran into this because the Cube was being annoying. The order of the ADC and DAC init matters, because the DAC init resets the shared DAC/ADC clock to the HCLK -_-.
2024-03-08T22:13:02 < Steffanx> It shouldnt even touch that, but you know.. The Cube.
2024-03-08T22:13:12 < Steffanx> Im not even sure why i tried using the cube.
2024-03-08T22:13:13 < qyx> yeah I've read that
2024-03-08T22:13:24 < qyx> is it a workproj?
2024-03-08T22:13:27 < Steffanx> Yeah
2024-03-08T22:13:58 < Steffanx> Porting some LPC1788 codes to STM32. It went actually pretty well, until this DAC issue.
2024-03-08T22:14:24 < Steffanx> especially because its only a GPIOs, DAC, ADC and ethernet.
2024-03-08T22:14:31 < Steffanx> *a few
2024-03-08T22:17:52 < Steffanx> The about of RAM and flash you get for not even $5 is just crazy.
2024-03-08T22:23:13 < qyx> which one exactly?
2024-03-08T22:23:19 < qyx> h503 has 128k flash, 32k of ram
2024-03-08T22:23:23 < qyx> which is nothing
2024-03-08T22:24:28 < Steffanx> 563vi
2024-03-08T22:25:23 < qyx> have you seen u5a9 with 2.5 meg of RAM?
2024-03-08T22:26:12 < qyx> 3x the price
2024-03-08T22:26:25 < Steffanx> 4 times the rAM
2024-03-08T22:27:41 < qyx> and a nice, make:r friendly 216 ball 0.8 pitch BGA
2024-03-08T22:29:57 < Steffanx> Make:rs would use the nucleo anyway
2024-03-08T22:41:04 < machinehum> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/campaigns/microprocessor-stm32mp2.html
2024-03-08T22:41:24 < machinehum> Find me on ##stm64
2024-03-08T22:46:57 < Steffanx> Chao, machinehum \o
2024-03-08T22:49:39 < Steffanx> Also ##stm64 ;)
2024-03-08T23:06:19 < machinehum> Chao
2024-03-08T23:06:47 < machinehum> I feel like the stm32mpx has been sold out forever and everyone got majorly bonerheard for it
2024-03-08T23:06:53 < machinehum> Reasons are unclear to me
2024-03-08T23:07:18 < qyx> sold out?
2024-03-08T23:07:38 < machinehum> Yeah like can you buy them?
2024-03-08T23:07:50 < qyx> yes I see plenty of stock
2024-03-08T23:07:52 < qyx> for mp1
2024-03-08T23:07:53 < machinehum> Even in non-chip shortage climate
2024-03-08T23:08:39 < machinehum> meh
2024-03-08T23:08:42 < machinehum> There's too many
2024-03-08T23:08:50 < machinehum> Should just have made one
2024-03-08T23:09:05 < machinehum> Fuck all this artificial inflated bullshit
2024-03-08T23:09:28 < machinehum> 118 different MPNs on digikey
2024-03-08T23:09:30 < qyx> too many doesn't sound like sold out
2024-03-08T23:09:33 < machinehum> Stupid
2024-03-08T23:09:39 < machinehum> qyx: lol
2024-03-08T23:09:57 < machinehum> Too many skus, but yeah I just looked I guess they aint "sold out"
2024-03-08T23:10:14 < machinehum> But 3.5k is the most digikey has of one sku
2024-03-08T23:10:20 < Steffanx> Time to get a bonerhead.
2024-03-08T23:10:22 < qyx> tell the truth you only checked lcsc
2024-03-08T23:10:33 < Steffanx> Heard
2024-03-08T23:11:03 < machinehum> boner*
2024-03-08T23:11:23 < machinehum> So digi stocks 118 skus, 35 are in stock
2024-03-08T23:12:04 < qyx> I always wondered it is feasible to make that many
2024-03-08T23:15:03 < machinehum> Like there's obviously bullshit going one with fuses
2024-03-08T23:15:12 < machinehum> And then different packaging
2024-03-08T23:16:16 < machinehum> I would assume maybe like what... 3 different wafers?
2024-03-08T23:16:21 < machinehum> maybe just one
2024-03-08T23:20:23 < machinehum> Oh there's a bunch of mainline support... I figured it would all just be a bunch of yuckto bullshit
2024-03-08T23:21:53 < qyx> oh what, are you going to use mp1 with linux on an actual product?
2024-03-08T23:22:04 < qyx> I'll wait for the results
2024-03-08T23:22:15  * qyx grabs popcorn
2024-03-08T23:24:47 < machinehum> I'll stick with my 3$ Allwinner T113-s3
2024-03-08T23:24:56 < machinehum> Works great
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2024-03-09T00:42:22 < jbo> sup
2024-03-09T00:44:22 < jbo> machinehum, don't do mp1
2024-03-09T00:44:26 < jbo> machinehum, I really, really mean it
2024-03-09T00:44:36 < jbo> qyx, told me not to do mp1 and I did mp1 and then I ended up not doing mp1
2024-03-09T00:44:40 < jbo> mp1 is HORRIBLE
2024-03-09T00:58:52 < qyx> and how's the non-mp1 one?
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2024-03-09T01:07:42 < jbo> H7 is just being H7 - but I knew that before 
2024-03-09T01:07:47 < jbo> but at least not the MP1 pain
2024-03-09T01:14:20 < Steffanx> What pain? Getting lunix up and running?
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2024-03-09T02:25:04 < karlp> jbo: what are your comparisons though? is mp1 worse than imx6? worse than imx8? worse than imx23? worse than A20/h3? worse than.... ?
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2024-03-09T02:41:40 < qyx> the problem with mp1 is the hardcoded codebase
2024-03-09T02:41:51 < qyx> broken cube ddr configurator
2024-03-09T02:42:11 < qyx> broken cube/u-boot spl ddr calibration tool
2024-03-09T02:42:33 < qyx> and kinda mandatory tf-a sh.t or you have to hack spl
2024-03-09T02:42:55 < qyx> and all (tf-a, u-boot and linux) support is kindergarten level, hardcoded
2024-03-09T02:43:17 < jbo> karlp, pretty much what qyx said.
2024-03-09T02:43:28 < jbo> the surrounding ecosystem is a huge PITA
2024-03-09T02:43:47 < qyx> they have all the devicetree shit done, but surprise, surprise, change a vreg voltage in dts, nope, no worky
2024-03-09T02:43:56 < qyx> it is overriden in the c code
2024-03-09T02:43:59 < jbo> use a different PMIC and you're screwed already
2024-03-09T02:44:03 < jbo> yeah exactly
2024-03-09T02:44:08 < qyx> oh that too, or even on a different i2c bus
2024-03-09T02:44:19 < qyx> hardcoded too
2024-03-09T02:44:33 < jbo> huge PITA everywhere you look. and then  you think "lets tackle this problem" - you solve it, and then you find the next problem of the exact same nature and you end up getting nowhere after spending three weeks on it.
2024-03-09T02:44:39 < qyx> because eg. voltage levels are hardcoded in the ddr driver
2024-03-09T02:45:40 < qyx> imx was much easier to work with, I even managed to change ddr config MANUALLY
2024-03-09T02:45:49 < qyx> because there were examples for different chips
2024-03-09T02:45:57 < qyx> also some basic configurations upstreamed
2024-03-09T02:46:08 < qyx> for mp1? no, fuk off, just use cube to generate registers
2024-03-09T02:46:19 < qyx> or use the one for ddr3 we provide
2024-03-09T02:46:41 < qyx> I admit imx has a configuration tool for ddr too but I didn't even need to run it
2024-03-09T02:47:04 < jbo> yeah, everything that qyx says +1 and lots more of that pain.
2024-03-09T02:47:10 < jbo> huge pile of garbage, really.
2024-03-09T02:47:49 < qyx> all in all, mp1 no worky after 2 weeks, all others are basically working in one day
2024-03-09T02:48:05 < qyx> I did imx6, imx8, sama5d27, some older allwinner, f1c100s
2024-03-09T02:48:36 < qyx> f1c100s wat pain too but I got it working at the end
2024-03-09T02:49:04 < qyx> even stm32f7 I got running on a custom board with uclinux
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2024-03-09T03:12:35 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrJ7grCnwUc
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2024-03-09T03:24:56  * qyx @ DARK SARAH - All Ears!
2024-03-09T03:25:09 < qyx> steff favourite I am sure
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2024-03-09T04:13:06 < karlp> jbo: cool, thanks.  I have one other source who's happy with mp1, but... nothing of my own, and hashhash2stm32 opinions are worth more :)
2024-03-09T04:14:23 < qyx> was that sarcasm
2024-03-09T04:14:33 < karlp> no, very serious
2024-03-09T04:14:48 < karlp> you guys vs random discord people? I'm takingyou guys
2024-03-09T04:15:18 < qyx> I am willing to give it another try if there are some serious changes upstreamed
2024-03-09T04:15:34 < qyx> let's see what mp2 brings
2024-03-09T04:24:35 < qyx> TIL techno thb389 connectors use the same pinout as m12 t-coded metric
2024-03-09T04:24:43 < qyx> 1, 3 - L/M
2024-03-09T04:24:46 < qyx> 4 - PE
2024-03-09T04:24:56 < qyx> and 2 whatever you like
2024-03-09T04:25:40 < qyx> pin 4 is even longer than the others
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2024-03-09T10:13:11 < machinehum> qyx: jbo what about the mainline stuff? Typically that bullshit isn't allowed in the kernel and I'm assuming you're talking about ST's SDK or whatever their STlinux nonsence they invented
2024-03-09T10:13:26 < machinehum> Also lol @ shit's in DT and hardcoded in C later
2024-03-09T10:13:48 < machinehum> "We really gave it our best shot, but in the end, we kinda did our own thing"
2024-03-09T10:14:05 < machinehum> "Device Tree was a bit too much for the old dev team"
2024-03-09T10:21:08 < machinehum> wtf why are there stm32f4 config files in buildroot
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2024-03-09T10:55:48 < ventYl> "we are going it like this for 15 years and we don't see anything wrong with it"
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2024-03-09T13:38:04 < Alexer> does anybody happen to know "when" peripherals change? as in, STM32F407 has a different ADC peripheral than STM32F042, but do eg. all STM32F0xx always have the same ADC (etc.) peripheral, or can it change within a series?
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2024-03-09T15:20:07 < qyx> machinehum: I was not considering openstlinux even for a minute, not interested in basing my firmware on 3.x old stuff
2024-03-09T15:22:55 < qyx> they now have a new one with 5.10
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2024-03-09T16:58:40 < kre10s> on an stm32f103 I am having trouble with a timer. I set the GPIO to alternate function push pull, load CCR, ARR, enable the OC1, and set the mode to toggle on compare match. If I enable the output compare match interrupt I see that it fires, but I do not see a waveform on the output pin.
2024-03-09T16:59:46 < kre10s> Is there something obvious I am missing?
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2024-03-09T17:04:31 < qyx> which timer?
2024-03-09T17:05:17 < qyx> kre10s: http://www.efton.sk/STM32/gotcha/g3.html
2024-03-09T17:06:00 < qyx> you were not following the reference manual precisely
2024-03-09T17:07:28 < kre10s> TIM1
2024-03-09T17:08:07 < qyx> so read the gotcha3 ^
2024-03-09T17:08:12 < kre10s> thanks I will look at that.
2024-03-09T17:08:18 < qyx> you forgot to set MOE
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2024-03-09T17:12:44 < kre10s> Yup. Thanks\
2024-03-09T17:13:16 < kre10s> theres nothing MOE about that bit. 
2024-03-09T17:13:34 < kre10s> should be named TSUN :/
2024-03-09T17:18:18 < qyx> wat
2024-03-09T17:32:31 < kre10s> its a joke
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2024-03-09T18:44:16 < qyx> oh sorry
2024-03-09T18:56:11 < kre10s> it was a dumb joke
2024-03-09T18:58:12 < qyx> and does it work?
2024-03-09T19:14:34 < kre10s> Ah Yes! Thanks again.
2024-03-09T19:14:53 < kre10s> Now I just need to figure out how one shot mode works.
2024-03-09T19:16:05 < kre10s> because setting that bit doesn't do anything for me. I was expecting it to clear the timer enable bit on ovewrflow but alas I am missunderstanding something again.
2024-03-09T19:40:20 < kre10s> Is it possible to use one pulse mode and pwm mode at the same time?
2024-03-09T19:44:18 < kre10s> fi. if I want to produce a single PWM pulse.
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2024-03-09T20:06:09 < machinehum> qyx: So what were you using?
2024-03-09T20:26:54 < qyx> mainline tf-a, u-boot and kernel, some things in mainline were even newer than in the bsp
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2024-03-09T20:48:43 < Laurenceb_> c++ question: could this ever not be equal to zero at bootup if an instance of the CAN class in declared globally? https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.h#L175
2024-03-09T20:49:06  * Laurenceb_ is suspicious of https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.h#L165
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2024-03-09T21:13:49 < Laurenceb_> ok I might have found stm32duino can issue might be caused by maple bootloader contaminating ram
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2024-03-09T21:30:14 < kre10s> More timer1 questions... in dm00236305-generalpurpose-timer-cookbook ... there is an example for producing a train of N pulses. The pulses are always low followed by high where the line returns low at the end of the pulse. Is it possible to invert the polarity, but still return to low after the last pulse?
2024-03-09T22:06:37 < zyp> train as in DMA, or just gating a number of equal sized pulses?
2024-03-09T22:07:02 < zyp> if you're doing DMA, just end it at 0% or 100% duty to have it end at whatever level you want
2024-03-09T22:19:42 < Laurenceb_> I'm confused by stm32duino
2024-03-09T22:19:57 < Laurenceb_> looks like VTOR is set in the application rather than in bootloader before jumping?
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2024-03-09T22:26:01 < mawk> show the code
2024-03-09T22:27:06 < qyx> it doesn't matter where it is set
2024-03-09T22:28:15 < mawk> "    volatile CAN_message_t *rx_buffer;
2024-03-09T22:28:15 < mawk> " this is a property of a class, Laurenceb_ 
2024-03-09T22:28:28 < mawk> the constructor decides the value
2024-03-09T22:28:44 < mawk> it's not a static variable which is zeroed out at startup
2024-03-09T22:28:45 < kre10s> zyp: I want a timer to run from 0 to 16 and set the output high for 0 to 8 but low otherwise.
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2024-03-09T22:29:49 < kre10s> I use one pulse mode but since the counter always restores to 0 when the overflow (ARR) occurs it is left high in the end
2024-03-09T22:32:29 < qyx> you can use center aligned mode maybe?
2024-03-09T22:33:47 < kre10s> I thought of that. But its also not quite right.
2024-03-09T22:35:09 < mawk> make it run from 16 to 0?
2024-03-09T22:35:20 < mawk> then the reload value will be 16
2024-03-09T22:42:16 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/main/system/Drivers/CMSIS/Device/ST/STM32F1xx/Source/Templates/system_stm32f1xx.c
2024-03-09T22:42:25 < Laurenceb_> wtf is going on, VTOR isnt set by default
2024-03-09T22:42:43 < mawk> why would it be?
2024-03-09T22:42:46 < mawk> the default value is fine
2024-03-09T22:43:16 < Laurenceb_> oh, unless they reset FLASH_BASE, I see now
2024-03-09T22:44:00 < mawk> do you mean change? it's a macro
2024-03-09T22:44:56 < Laurenceb_> yeah, change
2024-03-09T22:45:30 < mawk> if you have a bootloader usually the default of 0x08000000 is not good after you jump to the application; but you don't have to change it if it's not the case
2024-03-09T22:45:34 < Laurenceb_> I'm trying to work out why my CAN code fails, it seems to be usb related - with usb plugged in it works fine, I think it might be a bootloader interaction
2024-03-09T22:46:20 < Laurenceb_> I know that with usb plugged in that interrupts work, so VTOR must have been reset correctly
2024-03-09T22:47:06 < Laurenceb_> so maybe bootloader is corrpting ram, but BSS should be zeroed on entry into application code
2024-03-09T22:53:24 < Laurenceb_> these will be in BSS right?  https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.h#L175
2024-03-09T22:53:58 < Laurenceb_> if I have STM32_CAN Can( CAN1, ALT ); in global scope
2024-03-09T23:29:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: when you compile ask ld to generate a map file then you can be sure what goes where.
2024-03-09T23:29:21 < PaulFertser> s/compile/link/
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2024-03-10T14:40:22 < machinehum> qyx: And mainline still has these issues you speak of?
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2024-03-11T00:58:26 < jbo> sup
2024-03-11T01:09:06 < Steffanx> Tha sky.
2024-03-11T01:17:22 < jbo> retro vibes
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2024-03-11T14:35:03 < Laurenceb_> sup
2024-03-11T14:35:17 < Laurenceb_> looks like something is wrong with muh can bus, its stuck in isr loop
2024-03-11T14:35:59 < Laurenceb_> might be that there is too much data on the bus...
2024-03-11T14:36:01 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.cpp#L410
2024-03-11T14:36:22 < Laurenceb_> Can.setMBFilterProcessing( MB0, CAN_ADDR, 0x1FFFFFFF );
2024-03-11T14:36:39 < Laurenceb_> ^doesnt seem to have any effect
2024-03-11T14:39:05 < jpa-> i assume you have already dug into the source, checked what register it sets and verified that the register value is what you expect?
2024-03-11T14:39:37 < Laurenceb_> nope lol
2024-03-11T14:39:53 < Laurenceb_> hmm I'm going to try grabbing some more registers
2024-03-11T14:39:56 < jpa-> then i won't either
2024-03-11T14:40:04 < Laurenceb_> the fact it works with usb plugged in is just really weird
2024-03-11T14:40:11 < Laurenceb_> as usb doesnt do anything
2024-03-11T14:42:59 < specing> your CAN bus CAN'T even
2024-03-11T14:44:08 < Laurenceb_> I cant see this functionality described in the ref manual  https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.h#L114
2024-03-11T14:47:10 < Laurenceb_> and wtf is this https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/STM32_CAN.cpp#L358C37-L358C47
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2024-03-11T14:49:27 < Laurenceb_> oh it matches with extended/standard mode
2024-03-11T14:53:02 < Laurenceb_> maybe I have to activate multiple filters?
2024-03-11T14:53:18 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/pazi88/STM32_CAN/blob/main/examples/Read-Write_with_filters/Read-Write_with_filters.ino#L69
2024-03-11T15:00:22 < Laurenceb_> I'll try grabbing all the can registers, its still unclear wtf is going on when it fails
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2024-03-11T15:17:45 < Laurenceb_> I think I found the problem
2024-03-11T15:18:14 < Laurenceb_> usb hardware is generating the interrupt storm - leaflabs maple bootloader apparently didnt shut it down correctly
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2024-03-11T15:46:48 < Laurenceb_> fixed it -       RCC->APB1ENR &= ~0x00800000;
2024-03-11T15:46:57 < ventYl> you forgot to clear the interrupt?
2024-03-11T15:49:31 < Laurenceb_> leaflabs bootloader leaves usb running with interrupts disabled
2024-03-11T15:49:39 < Laurenceb_> so that all goes wrong once you enable CAN
2024-03-11T15:51:47 < ventYl> do you routinely leave magic numbers behind in the source code after you are done with it?
2024-03-11T15:51:54 < zyp> why do you even use that?
2024-03-11T15:52:29 < Laurenceb_> zyp: other guy on team wants it
2024-03-11T15:52:44 < zyp> wants a broken bootloader?
2024-03-11T15:52:55 < karlp> lolrencing again.
2024-03-11T15:56:09 < ventYl> :)\
2024-03-11T15:56:59 < jbo> does anybody know what those four U-shaped wires/pipes on the outside of the little boy were for?
2024-03-11T15:57:58 < ventYl> are you assembling a nuclear bomb at home and you cannot make it work, so you wonder if you are missing them?
2024-03-11T15:58:34 < jbo> nah, just wondering
2024-03-11T15:59:46 < zyp> jbo, do you refer to point J here? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Little_Boy_Internal_Components.png
2024-03-11T16:00:52 < jpa-> "little boy" sounds like some sex toy and it even looks a bit like it
2024-03-11T16:01:06 < zyp> enjoy
2024-03-11T16:01:22 < jbo> zyp, heh. I was briefly looking at that graphic but failed to realize that J is pointing to those...
2024-03-11T16:01:23 < jbo> thanks!
2024-03-11T16:01:49 < ventYl> it looks surprisingly simple to be constructed
2024-03-11T16:02:07 < ventYl> I expected that getting fission material to explode reliably will be much harder
2024-03-11T16:03:18 < karlp> apparently that design was considered to be just "it will just work" but requires more fuel, and more enriched fuel.
2024-03-11T16:03:23 < karlp> ie, complexity on fuel side,
2024-03-11T16:03:28 < Laurenceb_> the hard part is making the fuel
2024-03-11T16:03:29 < karlp> the fatman style was complexity on bomb side.
2024-03-11T16:03:34 < karlp> with "easier" fueld
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2024-03-11T16:04:43 < jbo> if I recall correctly yield was pretty poor too
2024-03-11T16:11:34 < ventYl> I guess that neither yield nor amount of fuel required would be a major consideration with someone who would use such bomb as to scare their opponent
2024-03-11T16:11:45 < ventYl> or just to do a plain terror
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2024-03-11T17:00:08 < jbo> at least jpa- joined nato
2024-03-11T17:01:47 < BrainDamage> jbo: it's a radar altimeter
2024-03-11T17:02:25 < qyx> and we are probably leaving if things continue in the current direction
2024-03-11T17:03:47 < jbo> BrainDamage, I thought something along the lines, but the graphic that zyp showed would indicate that it's a YAGI?
2024-03-11T17:04:04 < jbo> qyx, welcome to the club :>
2024-03-11T17:04:06 < jbo> cookies?
2024-03-11T17:04:10 < BrainDamage> it's a ... yagi ... antenna ... for the radar altimeter
2024-03-11T17:04:18 < jbo> aye :D
2024-03-11T17:04:31 < jbo> thanks for the clarification, BrainDamage 
2024-03-11T17:04:39 < BrainDamage> the bomb had 3 redundant firing mechanisms
2024-03-11T17:04:49 < BrainDamage> a mechanical clock, a barometer and the altimeter
2024-03-11T17:05:00 < jbo> those were OR'd, I assume?
2024-03-11T17:05:04 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-03-11T17:07:32 < jbo> maybe one day I'll actually understand how Yagis work
2024-03-11T17:08:38 < BrainDamage> you know how tapered structures on a waveguide work?
2024-03-11T17:09:20 < jbo> only very basic and from 10 years ago university time. but yeah, had some waveguide modelling labs in there
2024-03-11T17:09:23 < jbo> so I guess the answer is: no :p
2024-03-11T17:09:43 < BrainDamage> yagis are like that, but ona discrete form
2024-03-11T17:09:43 < jbo> I know that at university I understood waveguides much better than Yagis. but RF was certainly not my best subject
2024-03-11T17:09:58 < jbo> discrete as in: mechanically discrete?
2024-03-11T17:10:35 < BrainDamage> yes, it's like you took that profile, and scored out the sections
2024-03-11T17:10:50 < BrainDamage> all except the last element
2024-03-11T17:10:57 < BrainDamage> the one behind the active antenna
2024-03-11T17:11:14 < jbo> I think the reflector part I understand better than the director part
2024-03-11T17:11:16 < BrainDamage> that one needs to act as reflector so the length is mismatched to all the others
2024-03-11T17:11:26 < jbo> neither the director nor the reflector are electrically connected, right?
2024-03-11T17:11:41 < BrainDamage> "yes", but in practice many are
2024-03-11T17:12:00 < BrainDamage> the antennas have an electric null in the middle
2024-03-11T17:12:12 < BrainDamage> so if you connect or not in the middle, it doesn't matter ... a lot
2024-03-11T17:12:24 < BrainDamage> because the voltage in that point is 0 ( ideally )
2024-03-11T17:12:48 < BrainDamage> except the receiving antenna ofc, that one if you short it you'll receive nothing
2024-03-11T17:14:53 < jbo> BrainDamage, but those directors... they are so weird to me (intuitively). You have that spine that is on the same axis as your travelling waves and then you have those "spikes" that are orthogonal to it. Is the spine relevant at all or is that only to mechanically position the "spikes"? And are those spikes electrically connected to each other?
2024-03-11T17:15:19 < BrainDamage> the spine is just to hold them mechanically
2024-03-11T17:15:34 < BrainDamage> the spikes is all the working set
2024-03-11T17:16:02 < BrainDamage> and whenever the spikes are electrically connected to eachother or not, doesn't matter a lot for the previous reason
2024-03-11T17:16:10 < BrainDamage> it's a dipole resonator
2024-03-11T17:16:16 < BrainDamage> it has a null in the mid
2024-03-11T17:17:41 < jbo> hmm, alright
2024-03-11T17:17:56 < jbo> one more question: are those directors only relevant when transmitting or do they also do something useful when receiving?
2024-03-11T17:18:53 < BrainDamage> https://0x0.st/H2ak.jpg
2024-03-11T17:19:29 < BrainDamage> passive antennas are reciprocal, it means they work the same in one direction or the other ( rx and tx )
2024-03-11T17:19:48 < BrainDamage> that's an old antenna I made for a diy radar
2024-03-11T17:20:01 < BrainDamage> the directors are just wire pieces taped with scotch
2024-03-11T17:20:09 < jbo> that is a helpful "illustration"
2024-03-11T17:20:31 < jbo> so I assume when the wave hits one of those directors it induces a current which then creates another field that somehow guides stuff?
2024-03-11T17:21:15 < BrainDamage> yes, each segment is a resonator for the intended frequency
2024-03-11T17:21:51 < jbo> so you could technically probe each director and see it oscillating?
2024-03-11T17:21:57 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-03-11T17:22:09 < BrainDamage> each one is one antenna, but with a short in the mid
2024-03-11T17:22:26 < BrainDamage> there's some _slight_ difference from the ideal value, because the front of the wave is coming from vacuum and the receiving antenna has a different impedance
2024-03-11T17:22:39 < BrainDamage> so the directors are one length, and the receiving another
2024-03-11T17:22:48 < jbo> uhm, alright
2024-03-11T17:22:53 < BrainDamage> it's an in intermediate value
2024-03-11T17:23:32 < jbo> I think this helped a lot. It no longer feels like black magic but just like something I don't fully understand yet - thank you! :)
2024-03-11T17:23:59 < BrainDamage> https://youtu.be/DovunOxlY1k?t=1351
2024-03-11T17:24:29 < BrainDamage> each antenna piece works more or less like that mechanical wave, I recommend the whole video
2024-03-11T17:25:19 < jbo> thanks - much appreciated!
2024-03-11T17:28:15 < jbo> so you could technically build a Yagi on a PCB?
2024-03-11T17:28:25 < BrainDamage> sure
2024-03-11T17:28:38 < BrainDamage> you just etch the pattern like I taped mine
2024-03-11T17:29:04 < jbo> I had no idea that you could do radar with a yagi
2024-03-11T17:29:10 < jbo> (again - due to lack of basic knowledge)
2024-03-11T17:29:23 < jbo> that radar you showed: is that just the TX antenna or do you use the same antenna for RX?
2024-03-11T17:29:23 < BrainDamage> https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTc0NDI1ODMxNzk4NDgyMjgw/asme-standards-for-the-revision-of-engineering-drawings.jpg
2024-03-11T17:30:44 < BrainDamage> it was a bistatic radar, so rx and tx separated
2024-03-11T17:30:45 < BrainDamage> https://0x0.st/HhWR.jpg
2024-03-11T17:30:57 < jbo> I like your apartment
2024-03-11T17:30:57 < BrainDamage> but you could use the same antenna with a switch or a circulator
2024-03-11T17:31:08 < BrainDamage> that was a univ lab
2024-03-11T17:31:55 < jbo> so building a radar is fully within normie DIY range?
2024-03-11T17:32:06 < jbo> normie with strong EE background - just not in RF
2024-03-11T17:32:07 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-03-11T17:32:37 < jbo> thank you for explaining & sharing - much appreciated :)
2024-03-11T17:32:40 < BrainDamage> the core principle is easy, you can complicate it as much as you want
2024-03-11T17:35:01 < jbo> I have a track record of doing that
2024-03-11T17:35:26 < BrainDamage> think of the radar as like a 1 pixel camera
2024-03-11T17:35:45 < BrainDamage> if you want more information, you can drag the pixel around, or have more pixels
2024-03-11T17:35:55 < BrainDamage> and then you combine them for a picture
2024-03-11T17:36:12 < jbo> aye, makes sense
2024-03-11T17:36:20 < jbo> your DIY radar - what frequency was that operating at?
2024-03-11T17:36:35 < BrainDamage> 900something MHz, ISM
2024-03-11T17:37:18 < jbo> so "radar" in this case does not refer to a frequency range on the electromagnetic spectrum but rather just the application?
2024-03-11T17:37:33 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-03-11T17:37:42 < jbo> so you picked ISM for not getting into trouble, I assume?
2024-03-11T17:37:49 < jbo> what kind of wattage are we talking on yours?
2024-03-11T17:37:51 < BrainDamage> measuring distance with a radio wave, that's a radar
2024-03-11T17:37:53 < BrainDamage> 1W
2024-03-11T17:37:57 < BrainDamage> totally illegal
2024-03-11T17:37:59 < jbo> :D
2024-03-11T17:38:06 < BrainDamage> but nobody's gonna notice
2024-03-11T17:38:19 < jbo> when one talks about RF power, it's not really the electrical power that goes in, right? it's some weird "equivalent" measure?
2024-03-11T17:38:34 < BrainDamage> it's the electrical power that goes on the coax
2024-03-11T17:39:07 < BrainDamage> on the antenna itself, things get more complicated
2024-03-11T17:39:21 < BrainDamage> because voltage and current aren't always well defined
2024-03-11T17:39:39 < BrainDamage> you can still define power, but not voltage and current separately
2024-03-11T17:39:46 < jbo> so you put 1W in but you might only get a fraction of that out as EM?
2024-03-11T17:40:07 < BrainDamage> "yes", but in practice antenna efficiencies are high
2024-03-11T17:40:18 < BrainDamage> like 90%
2024-03-11T17:40:22 < jbo> aye
2024-03-11T17:40:33 < BrainDamage> unless you're building a giant antenna, made out of iron
2024-03-11T17:40:38 < jbo> in terms of danger to live, is there a threshold of power and/or frequency where things get dangerous? or is it always the combination of both?
2024-03-11T17:41:10 < BrainDamage> low frequency antennas do suffer from inefficiency, because the losses in the conductors start becoming relevant
2024-03-11T17:41:25 < BrainDamage> so you could have only a fraction of the power
2024-03-11T17:41:50 < karlp> love that antenna on plexi BrainDamage that's rad
2024-03-11T17:42:25 < BrainDamage> to the extent of current knowledge, only power density matters, because it's the heating effects
2024-03-11T17:42:50 < BrainDamage> however - absorbed power goes up as frequency
2024-03-11T17:43:03 < BrainDamage> so you'll be a better antenna at higher frequencies than lower
2024-03-11T17:43:26 < BrainDamage> so it depends where you define the power, at the source, or at the receiving end
2024-03-11T17:43:50 < BrainDamage> at the end, frequency doesn't matter because it's already factored in, at the source, then it does matter
2024-03-11T17:44:25 < jbo> aye, that makes sense
2024-03-11T17:44:42 < jbo> thanks for all this basic info - I appreciate it :)
2024-03-11T17:45:15 < jbo> earlier you mentioned that a radar is basically a 1-pixel camera and if you want more information you could just have more pixels: Does that mean that you can still just have one TX antenna but a bunch of RX antennas?
2024-03-11T17:45:25 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-03-11T17:45:34 < jbo> I assume there is some practical limit with regards to how far the RX antennas are spread out?
2024-03-11T17:45:42 < jbo> with regards to reflection angles and whatnot
2024-03-11T17:45:54 < BrainDamage> the tx antenna is equivalent to a lightbulb
2024-03-11T17:46:04 < BrainDamage> and the receiving antennas are the observers
2024-03-11T17:46:16 < BrainDamage> the limits are that the rx need to receive the signal
2024-03-11T17:46:29 < jbo> yeah I guess it's very very much equivalent to a lighbulb because same underlying mechanics just different frequency
2024-03-11T17:46:50 < BrainDamage> one important thing that in light you don't see as easily: the "pixels" also receive phase information
2024-03-11T17:47:07 < BrainDamage> so it's more than just intensisty, you know also the angle of the wave
2024-03-11T17:47:19 < BrainDamage> which eg lets you determine direction
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2024-03-11T17:47:35 < BrainDamage> or combine pixels in more refined ways
2024-03-11T17:48:07 < jbo> uh... interesting. so you can have a 1-pixel radar (1 RX antenna) and still determine travel direction?
2024-03-11T17:48:13 < jbo> with a stationary RX that is
2024-03-11T17:48:20 < karlp> and this is how bluetooth positioning works...
2024-03-11T17:48:33 < karlp> the nodes can measure either angle of arrival, or anngle of departure...
2024-03-11T17:48:40 < karlp> so the system as a whole can find things.
2024-03-11T17:48:56 < karlp> without anyone thinking of "radar" directly...
2024-03-11T17:49:14 < jbo> with "angle of [arrival|departure]" do we talk about phase angle?
2024-03-11T17:49:19 < jbo> or spacial angle?
2024-03-11T17:49:35 < karlp> it's just a higher processing of the same thiing...
2024-03-11T17:49:36 < BrainDamage> angle of arrival is the spatial angle
2024-03-11T17:49:48 < BrainDamage> but phase angle refers to the electrical wave
2024-03-11T17:50:05 < karlp> they require the "sending" constant wave to be known, so they can turn phas einto spatial... (aiui, i may of course be wildly wrong)
2024-03-11T17:51:24 < BrainDamage> jbo: take my antenna, it's quite directive, as in, if you're not aligned with my antenna your signal gets attenuated
2024-03-11T17:51:46 < BrainDamage> and the more off-center you are, the more attenuated
2024-03-11T17:52:06 < karlp> heh. let's simulate a busy cpu doing "other tasks" by doing _10_ nops... https://github.com/nxp-mcuxpresso/mcux-sdk-examples/blob/main/frdmk32l2a4s/driver_examples/lpuart/interrupt_rb_transfer/lpuart_interrupt_rb_transfer.c#L144-L149
2024-03-11T17:52:07 < BrainDamage> now let's combine 2 more informations, you know the distance of the object you're measuring due to the latency of the echo
2024-03-11T17:52:22 < BrainDamage> and you know the speed, due to the doppler shift
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2024-03-11T17:53:22 < BrainDamage> knowing my antenna profile, I can tell the direction with 180 deg uncertainty due to the change in signal
2024-03-11T17:53:44 < BrainDamage> because the point traveled to a region with better/worse reception
2024-03-11T17:54:18 < BrainDamage> the better/worse reception, is really the effect of the incidence angle, which changes the phase in the antenna elements, and in turn changes the received signal
2024-03-11T17:54:46 < BrainDamage> so it's all tied together
2024-03-11T17:55:35 < BrainDamage> it's not super reliable in the presence of third party echoes, but it gives you an idea that "the sky is the limit"
2024-03-11T17:55:42 < BrainDamage> to how much processing you do
2024-03-11T17:55:49 < jbo> all of this makes a lot of sense.
2024-03-11T17:57:28 < BrainDamage> and complexity explodes when you combine multiple antennas
2024-03-11T17:57:57 < BrainDamage> you can eg combine them constructively, destructively, create a virtual antenna that acts as a directive one, or a broad one
2024-03-11T17:58:07 < BrainDamage> depending on what features you're interested in
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2024-03-11T22:54:08 < Laurenceb_> It's easy to get lost in politics and forget that it's really about people. In Haiti, the steaks are very human.
2024-03-11T22:55:33 < Laurenceb_> If you try to help in Haiti, you're biting off more than you can chew
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2024-03-11T23:12:25 < antto> sometimes i think maybe loirens alternates between different parallel realities
2024-03-11T23:29:13 < karlp> only sometimes?
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2024-03-12T02:04:08 < nomorekaki> makers hello late
2024-03-12T02:05:13 < nomorekaki> usb-pd boards for making 4S lipo into 12V or 15V or 20V pd?
2024-03-12T02:05:38 < nomorekaki> cell management not required
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2024-03-12T02:06:01 < nomorekaki> 12 could be done with buck only
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2024-03-12T03:19:38 < F0olz> Hi guys!
2024-03-12T03:20:51 < F0olz> Quick question: what happens if my HardFault handler triggers another HardFault?
2024-03-12T03:48:28 -!- dogukan [~dogukan@user/dogukan] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2024-03-12T04:27:21 < nomorekaki> a loop
2024-03-12T04:59:17 < qyx> a lockup
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2024-03-12T08:20:55 < Laurenceb_> suppp
2024-03-12T08:21:10 < Laurenceb_> can st-link on discovery boards run st-link v3 firmware?
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2024-03-12T11:07:39 < karlp> depends on the discovery...
2024-03-12T11:07:45 < karlp> the ones that come with v3 on them already can :)
2024-03-12T11:07:56 < karlp> what do you ant a v3 for anyway?
2024-03-12T12:29:45 < qyx> exclusive stm32 support
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2024-03-12T13:34:40  * karlp snickers.
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2024-03-12T14:18:46 < karlp> I love it wwhen constants optimize nicely: https://godbolt.org/z/YY8Yz9aTq
2024-03-12T14:21:18 < jpa-> that's a big alignment
2024-03-12T14:21:35 < jpa-> how does the linker handle it, does it stuff other variables in between or just put empty space?
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2024-03-12T14:41:30 < karlp> that's a different problem...
2024-03-12T14:41:51 < karlp> I was goin to check that, and maybe fix it by just placing it nicely...
2024-03-12T14:42:13 < karlp> first was not having to calculate that mask by hand.
2024-03-12T14:43:17 < jpa-> storing to cafe is funny, i always just return when using godbolt
2024-03-12T14:43:31 < jpa-> are you trying to impress the babe with your bitties?
2024-03-12T14:43:32 < karlp> I've run into problems with things being optimized out.
2024-03-12T14:51:12 < karlp> fecking, k32l says that mtb->base is hardwired? wasn't expecting that... guess more linker tricks then... :)
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2024-03-12T14:54:17 < F0olz60> ok, sorry guys, I had a connectivity issue. So when a HardFault handler yields another HardFault, you guys said it would loop or lockup
2024-03-12T14:54:38 < F0olz60> Is that the same thing? Like a function calling itself? Or is it any different?
2024-03-12T14:54:38 < zyp> lockup
2024-03-12T14:55:43 < zyp> it's not the same thing, lockup is a processor state, PC will read 0xffff… something
2024-03-12T14:55:46 < jpa-> lockup is like jump to 0xFFFFFFFF and keep looping there
2024-03-12T14:55:50 < F0olz60> oh, ok!
2024-03-12T14:55:57 < F0olz60> Thanks!
2024-03-12T14:56:10 < jpa-> NMI and reset will get out of it
2024-03-12T14:56:11 < F0olz60> So it's a special case handled by hardware?
2024-03-12T14:56:20 < zyp> yes
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2024-03-12T14:57:22 < zyp> if you've ever attached to a chip with empty flash (that's not one of the newer ones that automatically starts bootloader in that case), you've seen the CPU in lockup state
2024-03-12T14:57:48 < F0olz60> oh, ok interesting
2024-03-12T14:58:34 < zyp> because naturally if flash is empty, both the stack, reset and hardfault vectors point to invalid addrs, so the cpu can do none of those things and goes to lockup
2024-03-12T14:59:37 < zyp> apart from empty flash, you typically have to fuck up pretty hard to get it into lockup
2024-03-12T15:00:30 < F0olz60> Oh, also, would a vector value of 0 have any particular meaning? I've seen this as a way to mean "there is no handler implemented"
2024-03-12T15:00:50 < zyp> no, I don't think so
2024-03-12T15:01:07 < F0olz60> So technically the core would try to run code at address 0 (and most likely fail)?
2024-03-12T15:01:31 < zyp> I think theoretically 0 could be a valid handler address, even though that'd be wildly impractical
2024-03-12T15:01:42 < F0olz60> why?
2024-03-12T15:02:02 < zyp> because normally the vector table itself is at address 0
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2024-03-12T15:02:20 < Ecco> indeed :)
2024-03-12T15:02:43 < Ecco> (hi guys)
2024-03-12T15:04:13 < zyp> there's chips that loads initial vectors from a nonzero address (f7 does, IIRC), but I'm not sure they have any memory mapped to address 0
2024-03-12T15:04:41 < zyp> or you could remap stuff after startup 
2024-03-12T15:05:09 < F0olz> interesting! thanks!
2024-03-12T15:07:11 < zyp> anyway, the normal solution is to fill unused vectors with a dummy handler that just loops forever
2024-03-12T15:08:33 < zyp> the usual trick is to make one dummy handler and a weak symbol alias for every handler symbol, then put all the symbols into the vector table
2024-03-12T15:08:55 < karlp> then there's crazy people who place code into unused sections ofthe vector table...
2024-03-12T15:08:56 < zyp> that way the linker will automatically pick up any defined handlers and point the rest to the dummy handler
2024-03-12T15:09:24 < F0olz> oh, that's smart
2024-03-12T15:10:25 < zyp> it's a bit confusing in the debugger, because when you're stopping in the dummy handler and the debugger goes to look up what name the current function has, it finds a bunch pointing to the same address
2024-03-12T15:11:17 < zyp> so it usually picks the first one it finds, which effectively is a random one of the unused vectors
2024-03-12T15:11:55 < zyp> I was doing some stuff last week and the debugger said I got stuck in the USB handler, my project doesn't use USB
2024-03-12T15:12:10 < zyp> I forgot to add a uart or timer handler or something…
2024-03-12T15:14:56 < jpa-> i wonder if the dummy handler was called 00000dummy_handler or something, if it would get picked first
2024-03-12T15:16:43 < jpa-> i hate how chibios has started calling the handler functions just "Vector7F" and similar, i always have to dig into the ref man
2024-03-12T15:19:14 < F0olz> What is the difference between a MemManage error and a BusFault exception?
2024-03-12T15:21:53 < zyp> memmanage faults are access violations, busfaults are bus errors
2024-03-12T15:22:15 < F0olz> How would each be triggered?
2024-03-12T15:22:30 < zyp> you get a busfault if you try accessing nonexistent memory, you get a memmanage fault if you try accessing memory you're not allowed to (e.g. MPU restrictions)
2024-03-12T15:23:08 < F0olz> oh, ok
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2024-03-12T15:58:49 < karlp> goddamn, refman says that mtb_base is hardcoded to 0x1fff8000, which is start of sram.
2024-03-12T15:59:07 < karlp> actual mtb_base is hardcoded to 0x1fffa000 which is the start of the "second section of the lower chunk"
2024-03-12T15:59:15 < karlp> back to linker script shits thennnn
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2024-03-12T17:03:34 < karlp> jpa-: and yeah, linker will by default just leave a great big chunk of space wasted with big alignments like that.
2024-03-12T17:03:50 < karlp> because it starts at some point, then gets a "sort_by_alignment()"
2024-03-12T17:05:11 < karlp> ffs, can you just tell a linker script to have ram1 and ram2 with a hole in the middle, and to put bss/data across it as if it was one section?
2024-03-12T17:05:42 < karlp> bleh .data is first, is there any reason fo rthat? can I have bss first?
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2024-03-12T17:19:55 < karlp> man, no wonder MTB isn't used very much.
2024-03-12T17:19:57 < karlp> this is horrrrrrible
2024-03-12T17:30:18 < karlp> this msotly works: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/G9Sc7
2024-03-12T17:31:05 < karlp> now, how to make it not be ".bss changed to PROGBITS" again.
2024-03-12T17:52:55 < karlp> compounding the problem, we're almost out of flash, because protos were ordered with half the flash of production versions.  and because of my hacking, shit is in .data. joy of linking
2024-03-12T18:01:47 < qyx> zyp: and why do I usagefault when accessing 0x0?
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2024-03-12T18:06:43 < karlp> because that's valid ram, but bad insturction...
2024-03-12T18:06:51 < karlp> (normally)
2024-03-12T18:07:40 < qyx> bad?
2024-03-12T18:08:32 < karlp> vector addresses don't normally decode as valid instructions, no.
2024-03-12T18:09:13 < qyx> I mean *(uint32_t *)0x0 = 0; gives usage fault
2024-03-12T18:09:24 < qyx> if it was 0x2, ok, unaligned access
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2024-03-12T18:09:50 < karlp> what does vecstate state? it will give the bits taht give the reason.
2024-03-12T18:10:16 < karlp> flash is not mapped writable?
2024-03-12T18:10:53 < qyx> idk now, not at pc, I'll check but I remember I used it to generate usage faults
2024-03-12T18:11:05 < qyx> and I didn't quite understand why it did that
2024-03-12T18:11:27 < qyx> I said meh, yolo, I don't need to know everything
2024-03-12T18:11:38 < qyx> the goal was reached, usage fault triggered
2024-03-12T18:11:50 < qyx> but now I am curious
2024-03-12T18:14:01 < aandrew> qyx> if it was 0x2, ok, unaligned access
2024-03-12T18:14:20 < aandrew> how dare you try to access an invalid memory address *AND* in the wrong way!
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2024-03-12T18:35:35 < nomorekaki> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
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2024-03-13T12:18:57 < karlp> hrm, sigint in gdb without getting an exception, what's that from? what sneaky shit beneathy my feet is doin that...
2024-03-13T12:19:19 < karlp> I know I'm getting bad poitners, but I want it to tell me what was bad about them, not make me guess from "optimized out" and shit
2024-03-13T12:20:21 < jpa-> with openocd?
2024-03-13T12:20:25 < karlp> eyah
2024-03-13T12:21:25 < karlp> i'm having a hard time converting linker svcript variables into useful values...
2024-03-13T12:21:29 < karlp> seems so simple. 
2024-03-13T12:29:45 < jpa-> it seems like openocd would do that sigint thing when NVIC->DFSR has the "EXTERNAL" bit set, but i wonder what that is hooked up to
2024-03-13T12:30:23 < jpa-> you could check NVIC->DFSR after it happens
2024-03-13T12:31:27 < jpa-> .. though how to access it :)
2024-03-13T12:34:03 < jpa-> monitor $_TARGETNAME debug_reason    could tell something
2024-03-13T12:34:53 < karlp> tryin this, cant' see what I'm doing wrong https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Zh9sa
2024-03-13T12:35:07 < karlp> "debug-request"
2024-03-13T12:35:20 < karlp> I wonder if I have something doing a bkpnt or something in some internal code here.
2024-03-13T12:35:59 < jpa-> bkpt instruction should result in reason of "breakpoint"
2024-03-13T12:36:06 < jpa-> https://github.com/openocd-org/openocd/blob/12ff36bd19e4f25dd7505c46a77d9f2c47dc350a/src/target/arm_dpm.c#L1057-L1081
2024-03-13T12:37:04 < jpa-> looks like some kinetis devices have "EDECR" register that configures events that trigger this
2024-03-13T12:38:00 < karlp> where did you find that?
2024-03-13T12:38:05 < jpa-> random googling
2024-03-13T12:38:23 < karlp> edecr I cant' find in my ref man at least, what part was it, I can see if it's something related naming?
2024-03-13T12:38:59 < jpa-> hmm oops, looks like it is i.mx and google just picked kinetis from somewhere else on nxp pages..
2024-03-13T12:39:57 < jpa-> but still seems like "external" debug event, just can't figure out what gives those
2024-03-13T12:42:07 < jpa-> putting sizes as pointers seems somehow sketchy, i just put start and end pointers
2024-03-13T12:42:40 < karlp> well, I'd initially just copied some other code that use raw symbols with sizes as "variables"
2024-03-13T12:42:51 < karlp> it was only later I realized that it was really just making a symbol for a poitner.
2024-03-13T12:43:05 < jpa-> but maybe step through instruction-by-instruction and check the register values?
2024-03-13T12:43:14 < jpa-> or disassembly
2024-03-13T12:46:00 < karlp> hah
2024-03-13T12:46:02 < karlp> I think it was before that.
2024-03-13T12:46:23 < karlp> I was writing a bad value to the mtb0->master field, because _that_ calculation was still using the raw poiner, intead of the "size"
2024-03-13T12:46:43 < mawk> SIGINT is from the terminal
2024-03-13T12:47:01 < mawk> it's what ^C does
2024-03-13T12:47:09 < karlp> yes. but that's not what's happening here.
2024-03-13T12:47:09 < mawk> with default settings
2024-03-13T12:47:11 < karlp> I go "run"
2024-03-13T12:47:17 < karlp> and it autostops and says "sigint"
2024-03-13T12:47:24 < jpa-> yeah, if gdb itself gets sigint; but openocd can also say "target received sigint" to gdb
2024-03-13T12:47:31 < karlp> ^^
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2024-03-13T12:59:40 < karlp> ok, this worked in the end: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zfbbF
2024-03-13T12:59:50 < karlp> keeps jpa happy by not using poiner values as sizes.
2024-03-13T13:00:06 < karlp> now, to actually read it out and process it!
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2024-03-13T13:05:32 < jpa-> karlp: heh, looks like MTB MASTER register HALTREQ bit can be used to trigger the EDBGRQ signal
2024-03-13T13:05:47 < jpa-> so you were probably writing to it
2024-03-13T13:06:13 < karlp> probably, it all went away when I stopped writing garbage to the master reg.
2024-03-13T13:06:19 < karlp> was veyr ... not normal.
2024-03-13T13:06:38 < jpa-> yeah, and it doesn't help googling when the docs have so many different names for this signal
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2024-03-13T14:26:36 < karlp> ok. well, mtb static dump works,
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2024-03-13T15:23:58 < karlp> meh, gdb can resolve addresses to lines but not arm-non-eabi-addr2line?!
2024-03-13T15:25:48 < karlp> ok, it can for _most_
2024-03-13T15:25:57 < karlp> I just picked extremely poorly sample data...
2024-03-13T15:32:15 < ventYl> they both should be as they both use the same bfd under the hood
2024-03-13T15:32:51 < ventYl> it gets sketchy with a lot of inlining and almost completely unusable with -flto
2024-03-13T15:34:10 < karlp> yeah, ish. https://github.com/attie/saml21-mtb/blob/master/mtb_decode.py#L18-L35 will "fail" (returns: ?:?) the same way as addr2line, but "x" in gdb will print instead "0x1c722 <__muldi3+50>:"
2024-03-13T15:34:35 < karlp> so gdb knows that it's at that symbol inside some library (hello libm) but addr2line just bails one it
2024-03-13T15:36:37 < jpa-> https://github.com/sigrokproject/libsigrokdecode/blob/master/decoders/arm_itm/pd.py#L100-L136   i used objdump in this way to get the function stuff belongs into, it's also faster than calling addr2line million times
2024-03-13T15:44:15 < karlp> yeah, when I've got this "workign" it's just goign to be feeding orbtop, which already does this. I just picked some addresses badly initially
2024-03-13T16:04:58 < karlp> lol it works.
2024-03-13T16:05:07 < karlp> console spam out the wazoo.
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2024-03-13T16:24:12 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/af5f0f7e
2024-03-13T16:24:17 < karlp> super rad. super pro.
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2024-03-13T17:27:31 < Laurenceb_> sup trawls
2024-03-13T17:27:40 < Laurenceb_> something weird has changed with tarduino libs
2024-03-13T17:28:15 < Laurenceb_> Serial.availableForWrite() is 64bytes, looks like -DSERIAL_TX_BUFFER_SIZE=256 is having no effect
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2024-03-13T17:32:21 < Laurenceb_> I think someone installed platformio on this machine...
2024-03-13T17:32:33 -!- ferdna [~ferdna@user/ferdna] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2024-03-13T17:35:21 < Laurenceb_> yeah changing it has no effect
2024-03-13T17:54:54 < englishman> what work projects are you working on these days laurent
2024-03-13T17:56:26 < Laurenceb_> random test gear
2024-03-13T17:56:32 < Laurenceb_> often tarduino based
2024-03-13T17:57:09 < Laurenceb_> just spent 30mins searching for cached files, but nothing
2024-03-13T17:57:58 < Laurenceb_> rage mode
2024-03-13T18:30:55 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@cust226-dsl93-89-135.idnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2024-03-13T18:31:02 < englishman> are you with a private co or still some- oh bother
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2024-03-13T18:36:07 < Laurenceb_>  "fixed" it
2024-03-13T18:36:29 < Laurenceb_> puring temp files fixes tarduino, but it has to be done each time I change build_opts.h
2024-03-13T18:36:43 < Laurenceb_> epic tarduino fail, looks like an update broke their cache management
2024-03-13T18:36:55 < Laurenceb_> *purging
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2024-03-13T19:31:22 < jpa-> i think TDK is trolling me
2024-03-13T19:31:37 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/en/products/detail/tdk-corporation/AG-SHEETSAMPLE-10/9634767    datasheet says it has protection film
2024-03-13T19:31:54 < jpa-> i have been trying to pick at the corners for a good 10 minutes now
2024-03-13T19:32:07 < jpa-> measured with micrometer, the film is 129 µm so probably no protection film
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2024-03-13T19:43:51 < Steffanx> What kind of fun thing are you doing with the film Mr jpa- ?
2024-03-13T19:44:10 < Steffanx> Or want to do once you figured out this mystery 
2024-03-13T19:54:24 < jpa-> shielding photodiodes from capacitive coupling
2024-03-13T19:54:31 < jpa-> and turns out it works great for the purpose
2024-03-13T19:54:55 < jpa-> i even got 88% transmission instead of the promised 86.9%
2024-03-13T20:04:08 < qyx> chocolate foilis not enough?
2024-03-13T20:04:34 < jpa-> our chocolate foil is opaque :/
2024-03-13T20:08:52 < Ecco> so guys, I got a "broken" AV receiver for free
2024-03-13T20:09:47 < Ecco> This one: https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/avr-x2700h/300016-new.html
2024-03-13T20:09:57 < Ecco> So, it's supposedly broken, but it also kind of works?
2024-03-13T20:10:28 < Ecco> Like, the user interface (screen, buttons) seems to be working fine, so does the WiFi module and web interface
2024-03-13T20:10:37 < Ecco> Yet it doesn't output anything in the speakers
2024-03-13T20:10:45 < Ecco> How could I try and fix it?
2024-03-13T20:10:58 < Ecco> Do you guys have any suggestion of stuff that could easily be fixable?
2024-03-13T20:11:06 < Ecco> (otherwise I'll just trash it I guess)
2024-03-13T20:14:43 < jpa-> does the headphones output work?
2024-03-13T20:17:18 < jpa-> considering it has 7 outputs, it is unlikely they have all burned their power stages
2024-03-13T20:17:41 < jpa-> so if headphone output works, it is likely the supply voltage for power stage that is missing, perhaps a power on relay has broken
2024-03-13T20:18:20 < jpa-> if headphone output doesn't work, it could be the DAC board
2024-03-13T20:20:43 < jpa-> you could also test if the bluetooth headphone output works, if not then it might be some kind of configuration problem like mute is on ;)
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2024-03-13T20:49:22 < Steffanx> Lol jpa- . That sounds less interesting than what I hoped for 
2024-03-13T20:50:22 < Steffanx> Not sure what I hoped for though 
2024-03-13T20:51:06 < jpa-> i agree, it was pretty straightforward "oh crap, noise is coupling through the front surface" "hmm there are conductive plastic films" => problem solved
2024-03-13T20:51:18 < jpa-> most interesting part was searching digikey to find the film
2024-03-13T20:56:46 < Steffanx> I'm only curious what the actual thing is.
2024-03-13T20:57:53 < jpa-> about that i can't tell much except it is a measurement device and uses photodiodes :)
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2024-03-13T21:05:57 < Steffanx> Hah I figured. Better use your secretscrap blog to tell the world about it
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2024-03-13T22:14:00 < Ecco> jpa-: Thanks for the writeup! I'll try your suggesitons, thanks!
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2024-03-13T22:45:49 < Ecco> So, I opened the whole thing
2024-03-13T22:45:56 < Ecco> there's a *huge* transformer inside
2024-03-13T22:46:37 < Ecco> Looks kind of like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225072668515
2024-03-13T22:48:22 < Ecco> ok let me take a photo
2024-03-13T22:49:50 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/AwwUbdh.jpeg
2024-03-13T22:50:18 < Ecco> The power comes in from the bottom-left corner: that's where I plug it into 110V
2024-03-13T22:50:37 < Ecco> Then as you can see there's a first PCB (entire bottom of the picture)
2024-03-13T22:50:50 < Ecco> and then a blue/black cable that goes up to the big ass transformer
2024-03-13T22:52:05 < Ecco> The first PCB has a flat cable with labels like "5.2V", and indeed, the black and red cable at the bottom of the photo does carry 5.2V. It goes to the "wifi/hdmi" part of the receiver, so it makes sense for this part to receive ~5V DC
2024-03-13T22:54:21 < Ecco> now, what's weird is that this black/blue cable that feeds into the big transformer is measuring at 0.17V AC and 0.0V DC using my multimeter (even though the mains is plugged in) 
2024-03-13T22:55:14 < Ecco> hm, wait, it looks like there's a relay here
2024-03-13T22:55:20 < Ecco> that disconnects/connects the big transformer
2024-03-13T22:55:33 < Ecco> ok guess I'll need to reassemble all this crap to test it
2024-03-13T22:58:20 < Steffanx> So did any of the audio outputs work, Ecco ?
2024-03-13T23:01:01 < Ecco> ok, so
2024-03-13T23:02:16 < Ecco> I had taken it apart before
2024-03-13T23:02:19 < Ecco> so I need to reassemble
2024-03-13T23:02:38 < Ecco> also, side note: that thing has an FPGA on board. Damn, I really wonder what it's used for!
2024-03-13T23:05:26 < Ecco> and I don't
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2024-03-13T23:05:55 < Ecco> also I don't know how to test the headphones out, because it uses those dumb ass giant plugs
2024-03-13T23:06:07 -!- System_Error [~SystemErr@user/systemerror] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2024-03-13T23:06:14 < Ecco> (suppsedly 1/4th of an inch)
2024-03-13T23:06:16 < Steffanx> Run to walmart and get an adapter plug 
2024-03-13T23:06:27 < Ecco> Yeah I guess I'll need to do that :-/
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2024-03-13T23:07:22 < Steffanx> Lol, no clue if Walmart has that kind of things though. But Americans all go to walmart for everything and what not.
2024-03-13T23:07:56 < Ecco> Oh they 100% would have it
2024-03-13T23:08:02 < Ecco> they really carry all sorts of crap
2024-03-13T23:09:17 < Ecco> Need a new tire? A slice of ham? An AR-15^K^K^K^K? They got you covered!
2024-03-13T23:10:16 < Ecco> So, that receiver has a "PRE" output. This one *does* give out a signal.
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2024-03-13T23:29:39 < Ecco> If I plug a multimeter where one of the speakers are suppsed to go
2024-03-13T23:29:44 < Ecco> am I supposed to see some voltage?
2024-03-13T23:29:57 < Ecco> (my multimeter currently shows 0.0000V AC)
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2024-03-13T23:52:44 < Laurenceb_> As the drone swarm homes in on you, spare a thought for uncle Ted who gave his life to try to save you
--- Day changed to maalis 14 2024
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2024-03-14T04:18:25 < fenugrec> Ecco sometimes AV amps have a relay on the output for DC protection and on/off muting. A lot of stuff could be wrong (including configs - go find the 'factory reset' feature first in the menus), then find schematics
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2024-03-14T08:22:47 < jpa-> Ecco: yeah, sounds like the big relay might be the culprit, they often are
2024-03-14T08:25:02 < jpa-> Ecco: anyway, the fact that preout gives signal but none of the speaker channels do, suggests that the problem is with the power supply to the output amplifiers
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2024-03-14T14:51:15 < qyx> attn zyp show pls ventYl some pictures of your test rig/setup
2024-03-14T14:51:28 < qyx> I can't find any right now
2024-03-14T14:56:19 < karlp> hehe: https://twitter.com/jilles_com/status/1768157283438231797
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2024-03-14T15:15:28 < Laurenceb_> what USB interrupt priority and subpriority should I need to get USB CDC to work?
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2024-03-14T15:15:57 < Laurenceb_> its saying "port busy" atm, after I changed the nvic config
2024-03-14T15:21:53 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: have you already figured out that CAN issue?
2024-03-14T15:22:11 < Laurenceb_> yeah it was the maple bootloader leaving usb enabled
2024-03-14T15:22:18 < Laurenceb_> this is an issue on another board
2024-03-14T15:22:28 < PaulFertser> And interrupt storming without USB connected?
2024-03-14T15:22:33 < Laurenceb_> it might just be the pc - I'll try with a pi after the launch
2024-03-14T15:22:36 < Laurenceb_> yes
2024-03-14T15:22:55 < PaulFertser> Damn why you use that maple bootloader if it sucks so hard?
2024-03-14T15:24:41 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: it's here where they do not disable interrupts https://github.com/leaflabs/maple-bootloader/blob/master/usb.c#L224 ?
2024-03-14T15:27:08 < PaulFertser> or https://github.com/leaflabs/maple-bootloader/blob/master/usb.c#L419 ?
2024-03-14T15:28:19 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: and here https://github.com/leaflabs/maple-bootloader/blob/master/hardware.c#L167 they do not call it?
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2024-03-14T15:48:32 < Ecco> fenugrec: I did a full factory reset of the AV receiver as soon as I got it :) So it's hopefully not a config issue
2024-03-14T15:58:56 < Ecco> How can I test a relay? Do I need to apply some voltage to make it click?
2024-03-14T15:59:59 < mawk> yes
2024-03-14T16:00:13 < mawk> see the specs of the relay
2024-03-14T16:03:23 < Ecco> ok will do
2024-03-14T16:03:26 < Ecco> thanks
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2024-03-14T16:16:56 < fenugrec> Ecco not that I don't enjoy a repair challenge, but posting a thread on e.g. eevblog will probably get you better results and will be more helpful for others who may have similar issues
2024-03-14T16:23:38 < Kerr> HAL_StatusTypeDef HAL_DAC_Start_DMA (DAC_HandleTypeDef * hdac, uint32_t Channel, uint32_t *
2024-03-14T16:23:38 < Kerr> pData, uint32_t Length, uint32_t Alignment)                  -> In length going to be in words, or bytes?
2024-03-14T16:23:42 < Kerr> *is
2024-03-14T16:28:00 < qyx> what does the documentation say?
2024-03-14T16:30:10 < qyx>   * @param  Length The length of data to be transferred from memory to DAC peripheral
2024-03-14T16:30:13 < qyx> not very helpful
2024-03-14T16:30:31 < qyx> but pData is uint32_t *, I would say in words
2024-03-14T16:30:46 < qyx> I have never used that code
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2024-03-14T16:46:28 < Kerr> Assuming UPS doesn't delay my shipment again, I'll have the hardware in hand to test it today
2024-03-14T16:46:52 < Kerr> I'll assume words, and if my buffer isn't all being used, I'll change it...
2024-03-14T16:55:33 < Kerr> Hmm... If I register a callback, then register another callback, do they all get called, or is only one allowed? HAL_TIM_RegisterCallback(&AUDIO_44_1_KHZ_TIMER, PeriodElapsedCallback, somefunction1); HAL_TIM_RegisterCallback(&AUDIO_44_1_KHZ_TIMER, PeriodElapsedCallback, somefunction2)
2024-03-14T16:56:06 < Kerr> It would be convenient to be able to just register an arbitrary number of callbacks. 
2024-03-14T16:56:30 < Kerr> (What is the point of registering callbacks if you can only do one anyway?)
2024-03-14T17:00:08 < mawk> it's an alternative to using weak symbols
2024-03-14T17:00:22 < mawk> so it's runtime instead of compile-time
2024-03-14T17:00:29 < mawk> if you want multiple things to be called just do that in your one callback
2024-03-14T17:00:34 < mawk> also, the documentation is in the .c files Kerr 
2024-03-14T17:00:37 < mawk> you can just read them
2024-03-14T17:01:14 < mawk> you need to specifically enable callbacks for HAL to use them, otherwise you need to use the weak symbols
2024-03-14T17:01:37 < mawk> in the config .h file
2024-03-14T17:05:55 < karlp> callbacks are also more "portable" as you don't need to know _anything_ about peoples linkers toolchains, like weak symbols and magic names do.
2024-03-14T17:06:04 < karlp> weak symbols also forces the name onto the consumer.
2024-03-14T17:09:29 < Ecco> fenugrec: good suggestion, thanks!
2024-03-14T17:09:42 < Kerr> Hm, it seems that the weak functions are for *all* interrupts of that type?
2024-03-14T17:10:30 < Kerr> So registering a callback will, at least, get the callback for my specific timer then?
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2024-03-14T17:19:41 < fenugrec> Kerr as usual HAL docs are sortof useless, you need to go look at what the code does.
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2024-03-14T17:40:52 < jpa-> so, MCP2221 USB-I2C bridge, pluses: crystalless, reasonable price, built-in linux driver  downsides: at least with i2c-tools the data is garbage
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2024-03-14T17:46:39 < jpa-> hmm.. or it might have something to do with the fact that i have a short circuit between SCL and SDA..
2024-03-14T18:00:27 < Laurenceb_> this jerb is epin fail
2024-03-14T18:00:48 < Laurenceb_> looks like I have a profibus device that doesnt like inconsistent time delays between bytes
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2024-03-14T18:11:14 < Mangy_Dog> can some one explain to me why this is so damned expensive? https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/tag-connect-llc/TC2030-IDC/4571121
2024-03-14T18:11:38 < qyx> that's pretty cheap
2024-03-14T18:11:44 < qyx> I was expecting more
2024-03-14T18:11:54 < Mangy_Dog> 33 quid for a pogo pin connector?
2024-03-14T18:12:00 < qyx> it is a tag connect
2024-03-14T18:12:07 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2024-03-14T18:12:11 < Mangy_Dog> but still
2024-03-14T18:12:14 < qyx> tag connect is known to be that expensive
2024-03-14T18:12:22 < qyx> there is nothing to wonder
2024-03-14T18:12:41 < Mangy_Dog> nothing to wonder as theyre known rip off merchants?
2024-03-14T18:13:42 < qyx> yes
2024-03-14T18:14:12 < jpa-> wait until you see what the clip costs
2024-03-14T18:14:48 < Mangy_Dog> clip?
2024-03-14T18:15:10 < jpa-> https://www.tag-connect.com/product/tc2030-retaining-clip-board-3-pack
2024-03-14T18:15:35 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2024-03-14T18:15:46 < karlp> (why do they come in three packs? because they break!)
2024-03-14T18:15:57 < jpa-> and get lost
2024-03-14T18:16:50 < jpa-> https://matthewtran.dev/2020/10/diy-tag-connect-cable/
2024-03-14T18:17:02 < karlp> we have statements in zypsnips too
2024-03-14T18:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i must admit that connector is so simple... id just be tempted to make it
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2024-03-14T19:11:30 < Steffanx> karlp for me it was the tag connect cable wearing, not the clip
2024-03-14T19:11:45 < Steffanx> I mean the pins of the cable
2024-03-14T19:33:34 < Steffanx> How much did you spend on this cube you're working on so far Mangy_Dog ?
2024-03-14T19:38:21 -!- ColdKeybo[a]rd is now known as ColdKeyboard
2024-03-14T19:41:18 < ColdKeyboard> I placed electrolityc capacitors on motor driver positive and negative out. The capacitor seems to be "buldging" after first use but it didn't explore (yet) :)
2024-03-14T19:41:26 < ColdKeyboard> *explode
2024-03-14T19:41:42 < zyp> IMO tag-connect isn't all that expensive, I've literally used mine on over a thousand different boards before it wore out, so it cost me a couple of cents per board
2024-03-14T19:42:02 < ColdKeyboard> It's rated for 35V and motod VDD is 12V
2024-03-14T19:42:08 < zyp> less than what putting a connector on every board would cost
2024-03-14T19:43:08 < ColdKeyboard> So I want to replace these capacitors before they blow up, but I'm not sure with what I should replace them?
2024-03-14T19:43:13 < Steffanx> Exactly zyp.
2024-03-14T19:44:54 < zyp> and yes, I could make something similar for less in parts, but it'd cost time, and I also appreciate how the tag-connect footprints are defacto standards that a bunch of boards I haven't designed myself are also using
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2024-03-14T20:20:54 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: did you check ripple current rating?
2024-03-14T20:21:58 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: aluminum polymer caps could be an option if you are exceeding the ripple current spec of regular aluminum electrolytics
2024-03-14T20:23:11 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- I didn't check the ripple current yet
2024-03-14T20:23:47 < ColdKeyboard> Also, is decoupling at the motor required (in addition to whatever is on the motor driver module ie DRV8825)?
2024-03-14T20:25:06 < ColdKeyboard> I guess I should add it it's just that I'm not sure how to size it properly for one of those modules
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2024-03-14T20:58:25 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: what does "at the motor" mean in this contezt?
2024-03-14T20:58:49 < jpa-> you shouldn't add caps to stepper wires if that is what you mean
2024-03-14T20:59:31 < jpa-> you need enough caps at driver to supply current spikes without excessive voltage ripple
2024-03-14T21:00:20 < ColdKeyboard> Oh, it's connected to the drivers "VMOT" and "GND" pins
2024-03-14T21:00:30 < jpa-> and the caps ripple current rating should probably be at least equal to your stepper current
2024-03-14T21:00:40 < ColdKeyboard> But I think you are right, the polymer cap should do the trick. I will order few of them and see if it helps.
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2024-03-14T21:28:13 < jpa-> wtf is this https://github.com/mcufont/mcufont/pull/38
2024-03-14T21:29:13 < zyp> wat
2024-03-14T21:30:08 < zyp> oh, by the way, I've now used two of your libs in work projects
2024-03-14T21:30:23 < zyp> mcufont a couple of years ago, and I just did a project with nanopb
2024-03-14T21:31:11 < zyp> what should I do next?
2024-03-14T21:32:44 < qyx> lack of work?
2024-03-14T21:35:23 < jpa-> zyp: maybe libfixmatrix? though with libfixmath being so bad, it's probably not worth it
2024-03-14T21:35:38 < zyp> heh
2024-03-14T21:36:43 < jpa-> baselibc i wouldn't recommend, even though apache newt seems happy enough with it (and it's not really my code anyway, i just stole it)
2024-03-14T21:37:38 < qyx> zyp: nanostr
2024-03-14T21:38:59 < jpa-> my next "will be eternally stuck maintaining this crap" project would probably be some kind of flash-friendly key-value store; somehow the existing ones don't please me
2024-03-14T21:43:02 < Steffanx> I recall you posting something that read "fuck it, not really maintaining this anymore" post a while back... So just stick to that attitude 
2024-03-14T21:43:03 < qyx> oh heah I have that on my todo list
2024-03-14T21:43:36 < qyx> "object store" for ELF files on a flash partition
2024-03-14T21:43:43 < qyx> and a key-value store
2024-03-14T21:45:29 < Steffanx> Object store for dumps or.. ?
2024-03-14T22:04:51 < qyx> no, for loadable elf modules
2024-03-14T22:05:21 < qyx> XIP-able
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2024-03-14T22:55:53 < Laurenceb_> kek wut https://ignys.com/about-us/
2024-03-14T22:56:13 < Laurenceb_> cringe tbh
2024-03-14T22:56:59 < Laurenceb_> orbital cringe https://ignys.com/blog/making-the-move-from-equality-to-equity/
2024-03-14T22:57:24 < Laurenceb_> >diagnosed with Autism
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2024-03-14T23:37:50 < Steffanx> I'm glad you finally got a diagnosis Laurenceb_ 
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2024-03-15T10:20:25 < qyx> I want one too
2024-03-15T10:25:03 < mawk> is it a good idea to use a random sha256 implementation I found online
2024-03-15T10:25:04 < mawk> https://github.com/B-Con/crypto-algorithms/blob/master/sha256.h
2024-03-15T10:25:16 < mawk> the author says it's only for educational purposes and not cryptographically secure
2024-03-15T10:25:21 < mawk> but nobody cares about that
2024-03-15T10:25:23 < mawk> I just want my hash
2024-03-15T10:28:00 < qyx> so just educate yourself and use it
2024-03-15T10:28:15 < qyx> if there is no/low risk of side channel attacks, who cares
2024-03-15T10:28:25 < qyx> eg. for firmware authentication or similar purposes
2024-03-15T10:28:40 < qyx> the code looks good except for BYTE
2024-03-15T10:30:09 < mawk> yeah I replaced the WORD and BYTE stuff
2024-03-15T10:30:19 < mawk> and renamed stuff
2024-03-15T10:30:53 < mawk> I want that to get rid of the awful obsolete ST crypto library
2024-03-15T10:31:14 < mawk> which prevents us from using hard floating point abi because they didn't compile it with that and they don't provide the source code to rebuild it
2024-03-15T10:33:46 < mawk> also this https://github.com/B-Con/crypto-algorithms/blob/master/sha256.c#L148-L157 I will replace it with __builtin_bswap64
2024-03-15T10:34:37 < mawk> or be64toh()
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2024-03-15T11:09:12 < ventYl> ah you want one for microcontroller
2024-03-15T11:09:51 < ventYl> last year, I've been writing drivers for Kinetis crypto peripheral and I used some python library to benchmark against
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2024-03-15T11:56:46 < mawk> o
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2024-03-15T12:46:09 < qyx> I don't have a single THT diode here
2024-03-15T12:53:28 < qyx> a TVS works for this purpose except its nearly 1V Vf
2024-03-15T12:55:57 < qyx> so a single wire UART works well, even with RX timeout for framing
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2024-03-15T18:06:02 < karlp> hrm, do I keep removing bashisms, or jsut install bash in the container...
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2024-03-15T18:34:51 < qyx> yes
2024-03-15T18:37:31 < karlp> correct. I did both...
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2024-03-15T18:48:12 < karlp> TIL https://twitter.com/mikelectricstuf/status/1768368125018337477
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2024-03-15T19:01:23 < BrainDamage> brag cell
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2024-03-15T23:30:14 < karlp> commentary indicates it wasn't a bragg cell, but a known practice to reduce speckle? aiui, bragg cell is "different" ?
2024-03-15T23:30:45 < Ecco> karlp: So what's the answer to that laser fiber vibrator thing?
2024-03-15T23:30:58 < karlp> something like this: https://www.molex.com/en-us/products/optical-solutions/optical-fiber/de-speckler-system
2024-03-15T23:31:17 < karlp> which is basically yes, a vibration motor in a box....
2024-03-15T23:31:33 < Ecco> This? https://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/6426-gsc-14680-1
2024-03-15T23:31:41 < karlp> yeah, apparently.
2024-03-15T23:31:43 < Ecco> Damn
2024-03-15T23:31:46 < karlp> new to me too :)
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2024-03-15T23:50:41  * qyx bashing keyboard
2024-03-15T23:50:53 < qyx> doing write once, read never proprietary code
--- Day changed la maalis 16 2024
2024-03-16T00:02:39 < fenugrec> in Perl, for bonus unreadability ?
2024-03-16T00:12:49 < qyx> hm I am writing to a serial port in python and the characters are echoed back
2024-03-16T00:13:01 < qyx> not because the port is set to echo, but because I am using a single wire uart
2024-03-16T00:13:16 < qyx> meaning RX and TX are tied together (with a diode, but that's not important now)
2024-03-16T00:13:39 < qyx> now I need to strip the echo and keep only the response
2024-03-16T00:14:13 < qyx> oh I may just crop the beginning of the response with the same length as the request had
2024-03-16T00:14:16 < qyx> thank you rubber dicks
2024-03-16T00:14:21 < qyx> sorry, ducks
2024-03-16T00:14:41 < qyx> that wasn't intentional
2024-03-16T00:30:36  * PaulFertser expected to see something funny by google images query for: rubber "dick" -duck debugging
2024-03-16T00:48:53 < fenugrec> qyx yes, you can also do echo removal per byte or per "frame", it may be useful to check for echo match in case of bus collisions
2024-03-16T00:56:37 < fenugrec> e.g. https://github.com/fenugrec/freediag/blob/master/scantool/diag_l1.c#L169
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2024-03-16T01:08:00 < qyx> Main change (see with git diff -w) is to have return type on the same
2024-03-16T01:08:02 < qyx> line as function name.
2024-03-16T01:08:09 < qyx> that's very reasonable
2024-03-16T01:08:29 < qyx> I can't imagine anything else
2024-03-16T01:09:44 < qyx> oh freediag, sounds nice
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2024-03-16T03:00:18 < qyx> do we have a low pin count, wider pitch and narrower body PCI-e connector alternative?
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2024-03-16T03:20:13 < ColdKeyboard> Random thought but I have to say I'm sad that his polymcu project is not longer alive :(
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2024-03-16T15:28:04 < Steffanx> "his" project, ColdKeyboard ?
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2024-03-16T19:59:28 < nomorekaki> TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization
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2024-03-16T21:47:26 < fenugrec> wait till you hear about NOP slides
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--- Day changed su maalis 17 2024
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2024-03-17T01:58:14 < qyx> wut is this https://www.nxp.com/products/interfaces/ethernet-/automotive-ethernet-phys/10base-t1s-pmd-transceiver:TJA1410
2024-03-17T01:58:23 < qyx> TIL
2024-03-17T01:59:03 < qyx> I didn't know the PHY can be split into "digital phy" and "high voltage frontend" parts
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2024-03-17T02:47:50 < karlp> sounds like a t1s split thing?
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2024-03-17T02:54:35 < qyx> yeah t1s specific
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2024-03-17T17:45:59 < fenugrec> For functions returning either success or fail, I've used both 'bool' (true =success) and 'int' (0 = success), and seen both used. I tend to prefer bool, but what does ##stm32 prefer
2024-03-17T18:12:08 < qyx> for every module grouping functions I always typedef an module_ret_t enum
2024-03-17T18:12:41 < qyx> with MODULE_RET_OK = 0 as the first item/member
2024-03-17T18:12:59 < qyx> and functions always return that enum
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2024-03-17T18:42:21 < Steffanx> Are you typedefing all your structs too, qyx?
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2024-03-17T18:59:14 < Laurenceb_> https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_600,h_400,c_fill,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep,g_center/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f83a69c-52e3-4ba8-a1ab-f8cbc56c62b2_768x719.jpeg
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2024-03-17T20:01:55 < qyx> Steffanx: it depends, if they should be opaque, yes
2024-03-17T20:02:16 < qyx> if the user accesses members directly, I use struct
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2024-03-17T20:46:40 < Laurenceb_> https://www.sissify.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/castration-truck-featured-246x350.jpg
2024-03-17T20:49:34 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@202.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Client Quit]
2024-03-17T21:01:00 < jpa-> finally the castration truck visits Laurenceb, only took 13 years
2024-03-17T21:02:24 < specing> lmao
2024-03-17T21:08:58 < BrainDamage> won't he lose his wizard powers then?
2024-03-17T21:10:16 < jpa-> i hope so
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2024-03-17T21:20:41 < Steffanx> You're a mean guy jpa- . Mean guy.
2024-03-17T21:35:38 < jpa-> it's because of the testosterone
2024-03-17T21:46:16 < Steffanx> Aha.
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2024-03-17T22:36:18 < Kerr> Maybe someone has run into this before: STM32CubeIDE debugger is running, and talking to my board just fine, but it doesn't seem to be functioning with my source files. IE, it doesn't open a file showing what line I'm at. Also, any "step" operation just runs continuously. If I look at the disassembler then it shows what I expect, and if I use "ni" in the gdb console I can step that way...
2024-03-17T22:36:23 < Kerr> but Idk what the heck broke
2024-03-17T22:37:12 < Kerr> also the console in the ide now has "[39;49m" all over the place, mixed with the output
2024-03-17T22:37:49 < Kerr> "git status" shows that the only things I've changed since this last worked were in my source files, which shouldn't affect this
2024-03-17T22:38:04 < Kerr> So I suspect it's some workspace thing?
2024-03-17T22:51:10 < Steffanx> You can always delete your debug config and start a new one..
2024-03-17T22:52:06 < Steffanx> Or your debugging a release binary that doesn't have debug symbols.
2024-03-17T22:52:20 < Steffanx> *you're
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2024-03-18T19:04:46 < karlp> lol, tried to worksonmymachine.pro someone at work and it's a blocked domain...
2024-03-18T19:06:07 < qyx> worksonmymachine.
2024-03-18T19:12:53 < Steffanx> Who owns it nowadays? Just says "Foo." ? Thorn?
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2024-03-18T22:13:59 < karlp> boo, it used to have a nice star logo
2024-03-18T22:38:19 < englishman> its gone to shit since the IPO
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2024-03-19T00:01:53 < karlp> and here's me making a "false block operation" request at work today :)
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2024-03-19T10:42:38 < benishor> totally offtopic: what's the best bushcraft jacket?
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2024-03-19T11:18:52 < karlp> whee, U0.
2024-03-19T11:19:04 < karlp> what does bushcraft mean to you?
2024-03-19T11:20:03 < qyx> they are spitting out families faster than I manage to try them
2024-03-19T11:20:30 < qyx> nah not even m23
2024-03-19T11:21:22 < qyx> but sustainable!!!1
2024-03-19T11:22:32 < qyx> hm it is pretty basic, the only plus is super low power in stop and standby
2024-03-19T11:22:47 < karlp> I'm guessing it's mostly manufacturing related really.
2024-03-19T11:23:31 < qyx> finally we got full vddio
2024-03-19T11:27:21 < karlp> huh, yeah, I didn't notivce u0 was just as m0+ again.
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2024-03-19T14:49:54 < bitmask> are you people still alive
2024-03-19T14:53:08 < specing> no
2024-03-19T15:17:34 < bitmask> that sucks
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2024-03-19T15:17:53 < specing> lol
2024-03-19T15:21:47 < qyx> no
2024-03-19T15:37:15 < Mangy_Dog> i died long long ago
2024-03-19T15:50:24 < ventYl> in a galaxy far, far away
2024-03-19T15:51:01 < karlp> I love this sort of shit: https://twitter.com/ToughSf/status/1769958999279927787
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2024-03-19T17:45:53 < Ecco> hahaha
2024-03-19T17:46:13 < Ecco> That's pretty awesome indeed
2024-03-19T17:47:45 < Ecco> ok, coding question. I'm provided a "uint32_t foo;", and I would like to call function "bar(int n)" for every value of n where the nth-bit is set in "foo"
2024-03-19T17:48:24 < Ecco> like "for (i=0; i<32; i++) { if (foo & (1<<i)) { bar(i); }}"
2024-03-19T17:48:29 < Ecco> Is there anything faster?
2024-03-19T17:48:56 < Ecco> I know it's O(n) already
2024-03-19T17:49:05 < Ecco> but if foo is 0, I can test this in a single cycle
2024-03-19T17:49:09 < Ecco> and skip the loop entirely
2024-03-19T17:50:09 < jpa-> int n = 0; while (foo) { int t = __builtin_clz(foo); foo <<= t; n += t; bar(n); }
2024-03-19T17:50:55 < Ecco> haaa, perfect
2024-03-19T17:50:56 < jpa-> ctz would work too if you want from lowest bit to highest
2024-03-19T17:51:09 < Ecco> thanks! Exactly what I was looking for
2024-03-19T17:55:13 < Ecco> (congrats by the way, I had the intuition that something more efficient was possible, but couldn't figure this out, even though I knew of clz)
2024-03-19T18:00:01 < karlp> that... isn't right?
2024-03-19T18:00:15 < karlp> hang on.
2024-03-19T18:00:48 < jpa-> you need to either switch to ctz or use bar(32 - n); but i didn't want to make it too easy ;)
2024-03-19T18:02:00 < zyp> I was gonna comment on cortex-m0 that doesn't have clz, but emulating it shouldn't be much slower than the naive implementation
2024-03-19T18:04:37 < Ecco> Yeah, well, I was going to rewrite the code anyway, what really matters is the idea of using clz :)
2024-03-19T18:08:02 < jpa-> for cortex-m0, fastest would probably be just skip-ahead branch like   for (i=0; i<32; i++) { if (foo & (1<<i)) { bar(i); } else if (!(foo & (15<<i)) { i += 3; } }
2024-03-19T18:11:32 < Ecco> what does this do?
2024-03-19T18:12:37 < jpa-> just checks that if 4 bits are zero, no need to check each bit separately
2024-03-19T18:13:38 < Ecco> why 4 specifically?
2024-03-19T18:16:45 < jpa-> random guess without knowing the probability of having bits set
2024-03-19T18:18:19 < Ecco> ok :)
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2024-03-19T21:05:22 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/I0akyJs.png
2024-03-19T21:08:17 < antto> hm, maybe i should add a piezzo thing, so i can make it tick annoyingly ;P~
2024-03-19T21:09:29 < ventYl> just use very bright diodes
2024-03-19T21:10:15 < PaulFertser> You know LEDs can be used to input data?
2024-03-19T21:12:02 < antto> i'll be using these LEDs: https://www.optosupply.com/product/list2.asp?id=192
2024-03-19T21:12:10 < antto> probably green and white
2024-03-19T21:13:21 < antto> they are very bright, i light them up via 10k from 3.3V and you don't wanna stare at them
2024-03-19T21:13:46 < Steffanx> y no "smart"  leds for much easier?
2024-03-19T21:13:58 < Steffanx> aka addressable
2024-03-19T21:14:36 < antto> wouldn't they be expensive?
2024-03-19T21:14:46 < antto> and i don't have experience with them
2024-03-19T21:15:05 < antto> altho this whole clock is gonna be muchos expensive anyway
2024-03-19T21:16:28 < Steffanx> 5-7c or something.
2024-03-19T21:16:46 < Steffanx> at least < 10c
2024-03-19T21:18:22 < Steffanx> xmega can easily bitbang them :P
2024-03-19T21:18:47 < antto> i switched to cortex-m0+ on this
2024-03-19T21:19:07 < Steffanx> still microchip i assume?
2024-03-19T21:19:15 < antto> ;P~
2024-03-19T21:19:20 < antto> no
2024-03-19T21:19:23 < antto> Atmel >:)
2024-03-19T21:19:34 < Steffanx> What's that?
2024-03-19T21:20:26 < antto> SAMD20
2024-03-19T21:23:48 < qyx> don't
2024-03-19T21:24:52 < Steffanx> its a wonderful device.
2024-03-19T21:25:09 < antto> don't <- que?
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2024-03-19T22:45:14 < Steffanx> Don't run, qyx
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2024-03-20T11:58:39 < karlp> wow, coresigh docs are "implementations might not implement all of this, write different values toa ll of memory, and read it all back and compar eto check for aliases"
2024-03-20T11:58:42 < karlp> what a trainwreck
2024-03-20T12:21:02 < jpa-> i'm most annoyed by how manufacturers don't bother documenting what they implement and what not
2024-03-20T12:22:53 < qyx> I am currently annoyed by everything
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2024-03-20T12:30:40 < Steffanx> Is it complain o'clock? Can I complain about Google? When you use the nrf connect app and start advertising, disable Bluetooth it continues advertising. When you re-enable Bluetooth and start advertising again. Youre advertising 2 times, .. and 3 times etc. with ble disabled.
2024-03-20T12:31:01 < Steffanx>  I know disabling ble might not actually disable ble, but this is just sad.
2024-03-20T12:32:47 < qyx> interesting, can I be annoyed 3 times, etc. too?
2024-03-20T12:33:08 < Steffanx> Yes
2024-03-20T12:35:37 < BrainDamage> if we're complaining, I have a piercing headache and even irc text feels loud
2024-03-20T12:42:16 < qyx> it looks like I can't enable gpio pullups when set to analol
2024-03-20T12:43:09 < qyx> why ST, I want my pulls back
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2024-03-20T13:25:18 < karlp> mtb buffer placement has technical methods to be placed ~anywhere, but the only way of discovering one of the parameters you need to decode it properly is to reset thigns and write all ones and count what gets saved.
2024-03-20T13:25:26 < karlp> which you can't do if the system is already running.
2024-03-20T13:25:44 < karlp> when it's running, you can only read out a subset, which only works if the block is placed at the base address.
2024-03-20T13:25:53 < karlp> it's so.... half wya 
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2024-03-20T14:05:21 < jpa-> BrainDamage: why did you get a piercing on your head?
2024-03-20T14:06:30 < jpa-> qyx: IIRC you can use ADC even when configured as digital input
2024-03-20T14:24:29 < Steffanx> daith piercings to get rid of migraines are a thing..
2024-03-20T14:26:39 < qyx> jpa-: yeah I am doind that but I wonder if there is any Schmitt guy involved by any chance
2024-03-20T14:28:05 < jpa-> probably, and they'll put some unpredictable load on your analog input
2024-03-20T14:28:34 < jpa-> and because you have a pull-up, the input is probably not very strong so you'll get nice errors
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2024-03-20T14:30:49 < qyx> sorry pros, I just forgot proper pullups on phototransistor outputs
2024-03-20T14:51:53 < jpa-> so, i have the chips, but do i dare to try my might against BQ25756 again
2024-03-20T14:52:14 < jpa-> on the other hand i'm already depressed to start with, so what's there to lose
2024-03-20T14:52:33 < zyp> heh
2024-03-20T14:55:06 < qyx> I would limit the PSU to 100 mW and not more for the start
2024-03-20T14:55:19 < qyx> plenty of power to keep it running with no load
2024-03-20T14:56:38 < jpa-> maybe, if i provide +5V separately; if i don't, the LDO already takes 400mW
2024-03-20T14:56:51 < BrainDamage> jpa-: wasn't my choice
2024-03-20T14:57:12 < qyx> so lower your Vin
2024-03-20T15:12:01 < jpa-> hmph, i have no idea at all where i have put the proto
2024-03-20T15:12:19 < jpa-> i'm pretty sure it didn't all go up in smoke
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2024-03-20T15:16:47 < jpa-> ah, "unsorted parts"
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2024-03-20T16:02:21 < qyx> I know that box, I have many
2024-03-20T16:10:09 < jbo> moin moin
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2024-03-20T16:26:34 < Steffanx> Gooday mr jbo. Welcome.
2024-03-20T16:26:57 < Steffanx> Are you in the US yet?
2024-03-20T16:27:04 < jbo> nah
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2024-03-20T16:40:38 < jpa-> livestream is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OpKuTzY0QE
2024-03-20T16:40:47 < jpa-> funeral of bq25756 is about to begin
2024-03-20T16:44:23 < qyx> lol jpa
2024-03-20T16:45:14 < jpa-> meh, did i burn it already
2024-03-20T16:45:15 < qyx> I know that command
2024-03-20T16:45:18 < jpa-> got a few blinks of leds
2024-03-20T16:48:26 < qyx> where is your patreon
2024-03-20T16:48:28 < jpa-> this time i didn't even put any load on it, yet REGN is already not functional
2024-03-20T16:49:03 < qyx> don't you mount it upside down?
2024-03-20T16:49:07 < qyx> I didn't see any smoke yet
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2024-03-20T17:04:17 < jpa-> REGN powers up and gives 5V when i put VIN=10V
2024-03-20T17:04:22 < jpa-> any other voltage and REGN stays at 0
2024-03-20T17:04:44 < jpa-> maybe some problem with the undervoltage/overvoltage stuff
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2024-03-20T17:31:28 < Laurenceb_> does anyone know if there is a way to export only captured decoded protocol data from pulseview?
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2024-03-20T17:35:38 < sauce> ah damn i missed out
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2024-03-20T17:56:22 < sauce> that is a pretty fancy streaming setup you have there jpa-
2024-03-20T17:59:42 < jpa-> tried to have fun with obs-studio, but all the pieces kept falling apart :)
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2024-03-20T18:09:46 < jpa-> the chip doesn't respond over i2c either
2024-03-20T18:10:05 < jbo> did you kill another one?
2024-03-20T18:10:40 < jpa-> this has to be something stupid, it's not like it could break without load and with big caps and 51V TVS on each rail
2024-03-20T18:11:19 < jpa-> when i have it powered, the status LEDs do random things
2024-03-20T18:11:30 < jpa-> but all solder joints seem ok and also don't show shorts to GND
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2024-03-20T18:55:47 < qyx> does jbo's one work?
2024-03-20T18:56:24 < jbo> haven't done much with it yet.
2024-03-20T18:56:28 < jbo> gave the PCB to my friend
2024-03-20T18:56:35 < jbo> didn't assemble another one yet
2024-03-20T18:56:42 < jbo> but jpa results do make me worry
2024-03-20T18:57:14 < qyx> jpa just did something stupid
2024-03-20T18:57:20 < qyx> also used GaNs
2024-03-20T18:58:07 < qyx> one more fail and I am hyper interested in finishing my pcb
2024-03-20T18:58:12 < jpa-> the GaNs absolutely cannot be the problem, i refuse to believe it
2024-03-20T18:58:23 < jpa-> but something stupid is definitely happening
2024-03-20T18:59:00 < jpa-> i think i might put a chip on new PCB without any of the power electronics, just to see if it talks I2C to me then
2024-03-20T18:59:18 < qyx> you could just power itwith 5V
2024-03-20T18:59:27 < qyx> on regn maybe
2024-03-20T18:59:47 < qyx> but yeah should work
2024-03-20T18:59:59 < jpa-> i don't think putting 5V on REGN is allowed
2024-03-20T19:00:30 < jpa-> but really weirdo stuff, this time i don't think the chip is burned, but the status leds do random stuff
2024-03-20T19:02:53 < qyx> jpa section 8.3.3.2 you can feed regn 4.5-12V externally
2024-03-20T19:06:54 < jpa-> for me it says DRV_SUP can be driven externally
2024-03-20T19:08:03 < qyx> sorry being blind and dumb
2024-03-20T19:08:52 < jpa-> i've tried being blind & dumb but it doesn't seem to help
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2024-03-20T19:54:06 < nomorekaki> did jlcpcb have some public PCBA project library where there are open source boards with all the footwork already done just click order?
2024-03-20T20:04:11 < sauce> https://www.pcbway.com/project/
2024-03-20T20:04:34 < sauce> iirc the designer gets a kickback too
2024-03-20T20:06:19 < nomorekaki> win win
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2024-03-20T20:06:32 < nomorekaki> I want the stuff done by machine
2024-03-20T20:06:46 < nomorekaki> parts are chinese ics anyway
2024-03-20T20:07:18 < nomorekaki> and if author gets moneys it's good
2024-03-20T20:40:12 < Ecco> Is there any speed advantage to using uint8_t on cortex-m cpus?
2024-03-20T20:40:46 < Ecco> The size advantage is obvious, but are there any instruction that goes faster if/when operating on 8 bits only?
2024-03-20T20:43:53 < sauce> there is a pretty tremendous disadvantage in using only a quarter of the bus width
2024-03-20T20:44:03 < sauce> modulo caching and compiler optimizations of course
2024-03-20T20:48:17 < nomorekaki> use uint_fast8_t
2024-03-20T20:49:28 < nomorekaki> what is suprising uint_fast8_t on x86 is unsigned char
2024-03-20T20:50:27 < nomorekaki> uint_fast16_t on the other hand is uint32_t
2024-03-20T21:01:44 < specing> interesting
2024-03-20T21:11:26 < Steffanx> Just use Ada.
2024-03-20T21:12:19 < qyx> no, rust
2024-03-20T21:12:37 < specing> yup, in Ada you specify exactly which numbers you want and let compiler deal with it
2024-03-20T21:12:57 < specing> I don't have rust, I have WD-40
2024-03-20T21:14:03 < specing> also -gnatX0 enables mixing most declarations and statements, one of the things I was in pain about
2024-03-20T21:15:43 < Steffanx> Oh dear, are you OK specing ?
2024-03-20T21:16:36 < specing> never better Steffanx 
2024-03-20T21:17:01 < Steffanx> Good
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2024-03-20T21:31:45 < jpa-> Ecco: pretty much all instructions except load byte / store byte are 32-bit anyway even if you operate on uint8_t
2024-03-20T21:32:11 < jpa-> on cortex-m4, there are a few SIMD instructions that can process 4x uint8_t simultaneously, but GCC is rarely smart enough to use them by itself
2024-03-20T21:56:09 < qyx> imagine specifying number ranges for your variables, must be annoying
2024-03-20T22:42:04 < qyx> so, how to connect a MIPI cam to STM32?
2024-03-20T22:42:16 < qyx> there is STMIPID02 chip but unobtainium
2024-03-20T22:42:20 < qyx> it could do exactly what I want
2024-03-20T22:46:19 < Ecco> jpa-: Oh I had no idea M4 had some kind of SIMD
2024-03-20T22:47:59 < karlp> M4F at least, which is most M4s...
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2024-03-20T22:55:53 < antto> FPU ftw
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2024-03-20T23:20:34 < nuxil> fixedpoint ftw :P
2024-03-20T23:24:23 < nuxil> i was bored and had some fun with fixedpoint.  made a small program that converts a string into a fixedpoint number with only using ints and char datatypes. no float/double involved.. 
2024-03-20T23:24:42 < nuxil> https://imgur.com/DpDgU0V fun challenge. but damn the code is ugly.
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2024-03-21T08:07:14 < jpa-> nuxil: in case you want to compare, here is the libfixmath version of the same: https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/libfixmath/blob/master/libfixmath/fix16_str.c#L76
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2024-03-21T10:12:46  * Laurenceb_ is raging
2024-03-21T10:12:57 < Laurenceb_> trying to talk to a Siemens Profibus ASIC
2024-03-21T10:13:38 < Laurenceb_> it works 95% of the time, but it looks like stm32 usart sometimes generates a single bit period of idle between bytes, which causes the Siemens ASIC to reject the packet
2024-03-21T10:13:48 < Laurenceb_> really weird bug on both stm32 and asic
2024-03-21T10:14:07 < Laurenceb_> has anyone seen this happening on stm32f1 usart?
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2024-03-21T10:19:06 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: how are you feeding the uart, by DMA?
2024-03-21T10:19:16 < Laurenceb_> by interrupts
2024-03-21T10:19:43 < Laurenceb_> I'm using a library - wondering if its using single byte mode incorrectly, will look through the code
2024-03-21T10:21:24 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: do you take into account with certain settings for priority groups even interrupts with different priority will not be preempting each other?
2024-03-21T10:22:07 < Laurenceb_> I set 2 bits for preemption and 2 bits for subpriority
2024-03-21T10:22:23 < PaulFertser> What do you use subpriority for?
2024-03-21T10:22:23 < Laurenceb_> usart interrupt is 0,0
2024-03-21T10:22:47 < Laurenceb_> usart is the only interrupt I've set with pre-emption of 0
2024-03-21T10:23:22 < Laurenceb_> if the interrupt was being pre-empted by something else I would expect to see >1 bit period of delay sometimes
2024-03-21T10:23:33 < Laurenceb_> but its only ever a single bit period exactly
2024-03-21T10:24:05 < Laurenceb_> happens a few % of packets, so approx 1 in 10^4 bytes
2024-03-21T10:24:46 < PaulFertser> Seems unusual for you to care about such a low failure rate.
2024-03-21T10:26:41 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-03-21T10:27:02 < Laurenceb_> it causes device disconnect then reconnect
2024-03-21T10:28:52 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: why not just use DMA if you need uninterrupted transfer?
2024-03-21T10:29:30 < jpa-> i wonder if it could be related to the fractional divider somehow
2024-03-21T10:29:38 < Laurenceb_> yeah I'll swap to DMA if I cant make this work, but atm I'm trying to work out why the usart behaves in the way it does
2024-03-21T10:31:36 < jpa-> you could put a logic analyzer on the TX line and toggle GPIO in interrupt handler, to see whether the interrupt was delayed for some reason
2024-03-21T10:32:37 < Laurenceb_> hmm good idea
2024-03-21T10:32:45 < jpa-> what is your BRR value?
2024-03-21T10:37:41 < Laurenceb_> baud rate is 19200
2024-03-21T10:42:23 < PaulFertser> The interrupt is TXE, right?
2024-03-21T10:43:03 < Laurenceb_> thats what I'm checking
2024-03-21T10:43:12 < Laurenceb_> as there is also TXC
2024-03-21T10:44:26 < jpa-> though if it was TXC, there should be delay always as it only gets set after stop bit
2024-03-21T10:48:26 < Laurenceb_> it might be fast enough to not appear as a delay most of the time... perhaps
2024-03-21T10:49:32 < Laurenceb_> looks like the lib code is basically a wrapper around HAL_UART_Transmit_IT
2024-03-21T10:52:00 < Laurenceb_> which uses TXE... so all very weird
2024-03-21T11:05:03 < zyp> one bit period at that baudrate is 52us, wouldn't be all that weird if you sometimes have another interrupt that pushes it into that window
2024-03-21T11:05:55 < karlp> oh, leeloo is back, pictures of code again.
2024-03-21T11:06:05 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2024-03-21T11:09:24 < Laurenceb_> zyp: but it has max pre-emption priority, and when using TXE the uart is buffered by one byte
2024-03-21T11:09:26 < karlp> oh no, pictures of text, not pictures of code...
2024-03-21T11:12:21 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/main/system/Drivers/STM32F1xx_HAL_Driver/Src/stm32f1xx_hal_uart.c#L2569
2024-03-21T11:12:23 < zyp> Laurenceb_, even if it can't be preempted, are you sure you don't have other interrupts it can't preempt?
2024-03-21T11:12:57 < jpa-> gpio toggling will settle IRQ delay vs. no-delay debate, after that we can focus on what else can cause it, or what causes the delay
2024-03-21T11:13:13 < Laurenceb_> ok
2024-03-21T11:16:01 < karlp> I want to see a scope trace of this idle bit before I believe it's even real :)
2024-03-21T11:16:26 < karlp> he's using a third party library, for purpose, and claiming a few percent error rate that casues remote disconnect?!
2024-03-21T11:16:47 < Mangy_Dog> isnt there a thing in freertos that allows you to set interrupts to happen after a current task finishes its cycle?
2024-03-21T11:17:13 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: what does that even mean?
2024-03-21T11:17:27 < PaulFertser> stm32duino looks nice in the same sentence as PROFIBUS
2024-03-21T11:17:34 < qyx> I would tend to believe a profinet asic really aborts the current frame when an intra-frame gap is encountered
2024-03-21T11:17:46 < karlp> I think he's thinking about the kernel/library split, where you can have interrupts with higher priority than the kernel.
2024-03-21T11:17:48 < qyx> sorry profibus
2024-03-21T11:18:28 < Mangy_Dog> ie freertos tasks are mini loops... if a interrupt happens mid loop. you might break what evers being processed. So you can set an interupt event to trigger once that task has completed its loop
2024-03-21T11:18:30 < Mangy_Dog> cycle
2024-03-21T11:18:31 < Mangy_Dog> thing
2024-03-21T11:18:53 < qyx> uh
2024-03-21T11:18:54 < karlp> you're doing that mangy dog thing again....
2024-03-21T11:19:01 < jpa-> you mean block interrupts? sure, but what relevance does that have
2024-03-21T11:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> wasnt that what laurence was on about?
2024-03-21T11:19:42 < zyp> Mangy_Dog has a point, a critical section could also cause interrupt latency
2024-03-21T11:20:14 < qyx> yes but nobody understanda
2024-03-21T11:20:38 < Mangy_Dog> i admit i only just joined at the tai end of teh convo
2024-03-21T11:20:39 < Mangy_Dog> so
2024-03-21T11:20:40 < jpa-> yeah, but it would require a critical section that is synchronized to the UART byterate and is always 520 µs long
2024-03-21T11:20:45 < Mangy_Dog> i might have missed some other context
2024-03-21T11:21:03 < jpa-> (which can happen, but seems rather unlikely)
2024-03-21T11:21:42 < zyp> jpa-, nah, it'd just have to happen to statistically overlap with the UART interrupt every so often to cause an intermittent issue
2024-03-21T11:23:01 < jpa-> zyp: but if Laurenceb_ is correct in that it only ever delays by 1 bittime, it needs to be synchronized to the byterate
2024-03-21T11:23:36 < jpa-> (and if it was significantly shorter than 520 µs, it wouldn't cause any gap at all, because of the 1 byte buffer)
2024-03-21T11:24:45 < zyp> not necessarily, you could e.g. have a 500us sleep and some processing, could even be shitty code that does a sleep in a critical section on purpose to bitbang precisely
2024-03-21T11:25:08 < jpa-> yeah, can happen, but seems rather unlikely
2024-03-21T11:25:38 < jpa-> it's also funny how Laurenceb_ code ends up having too much space, usually it is the opposite problem
2024-03-21T11:26:41 < zyp> so you'd have a deterministically long critical section, which means that it'll add 0-520us or something of interrupt latency depending on the relative timing
2024-03-21T11:27:18 < zyp> which means that it wouldn't cause more than a single bit time of delay, but most of the time it causes less, hence why most of the time no issue is observed
2024-03-21T11:31:43 < Laurenceb_> https://ctrl.vi/i/HEXgNhO7m
2024-03-21T11:33:30 < jpa-> i'm more amazed that sigrok + FX2 works for you under windows ;)
2024-03-21T11:35:15 < jpa-> it could also be that for some reason you aren't writing to the library fast enough, so there is no data in HAL buffer and thus the interrupt does not do anything
2024-03-21T11:35:30 < jpa-> but gpio toggling will tell that too
2024-03-21T11:38:05 < jpa-> in fact, if you don't have the next byte in buffer by the time HAL UART_Transmit_IT writes the previous one, it will disable TXE interrupt *and* enable TXC interrupt
2024-03-21T11:39:46 < jpa-> but apparently you can't add more data to ongoing transmission anyway, so i guess you would be passing the whole buffer to HAL_UART_Transmit_IT() in one call?
2024-03-21T11:39:52 < Laurenceb_> yes I am
2024-03-21T11:40:08 < jpa-> and you are sure the delay occurs in middle of buffer?
2024-03-21T11:40:14 < Laurenceb_> yes
2024-03-21T11:40:21 < jpa-> ok, there goes that theory :)
2024-03-21T11:40:59 < Laurenceb_> I spotted one issue: by default UART pre-emption is 1, but I call HAL_NVIC_SetPriority in my main code to reset it after initialising the library
2024-03-21T11:41:11 < Laurenceb_> HAL_NVIC_SetPriority can be called at any time right?
2024-03-21T11:41:37 < jpa-> yes
2024-03-21T11:41:53 < jpa-> priority grouping will have an effect too, i had some library secretly change the priority grouping
2024-03-21T11:42:07 < karlp> ok, new solution: use a not-f1, and just use the uart fifos ;)
2024-03-21T11:42:15 < PaulFertser> jpa-: are you sure TXE gets disabled? The buffer would still be empty so I'd expect both flags, not just TXC.
2024-03-21T11:42:19 < karlp> but I know, I know, lolrence will never let go of his f1s
2024-03-21T11:42:19 < Laurenceb_> heh
2024-03-21T11:42:39 < Laurenceb_> looks like maybe an issue with the USART itself?
2024-03-21T11:42:42 < jpa-> PaulFertser: i mean the interrupt on TXE gets disabled by HAL code
2024-03-21T11:42:51 < PaulFertser> jpa-: ah the hal code, ok.
2024-03-21T11:43:07 < jpa-> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/stm32f1xx_hal_driver/blob/master/Src/stm32f1xx_hal_usart.c#L2507-L2514   this stuff
2024-03-21T11:43:09 < karlp> PaulFertser: no, it's normal, last byte you turn off txe, just have tc.
2024-03-21T11:43:16 < jpa-> but it should only occur at end of buffer
2024-03-21T11:43:24 < karlp> yes.
2024-03-21T11:43:33 < Laurenceb_> the errors occur at random points within the buffered data
2024-03-21T11:43:36 < jpa-> otherwise accidentally using TXC instead of TXE would 100% explain the symptoms
2024-03-21T11:43:46 < karlp> oh yeah, absolutely.
2024-03-21T11:45:17 < Laurenceb_> I'm going to try to patch the issue at higher level - try to stop the profibus stack resetting the connection when this happens
2024-03-21T11:45:32 < jpa-> meh, do the GPIO toggle, we want to know
2024-03-21T11:46:08 < Laurenceb_> it means opening a complex enclosure then soldering onto a pcb thats already laqured
2024-03-21T11:46:20 < jpa-> do you have SWO?
2024-03-21T11:46:28 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2024-03-21T11:46:37 < Laurenceb_> wait.. does discovery support it?
2024-03-21T11:46:38 < jpa-> could just enable ITM interrupt tracing then
2024-03-21T11:46:44 < jpa-> and decode in pulseview
2024-03-21T11:46:47 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2024-03-21T11:47:30 < Laurenceb_> ok i'll try to get that working this afternoon - need to work on other stuff first
2024-03-21T11:47:46 < Laurenceb_> thanks for the help
2024-03-21T11:48:18 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/STM32_Trace_Example/blob/master/configure-trace.openocd  if you use openocd, this works for me (though people keep telling me there is some better way to do it..)
2024-03-21T11:49:18 < Laurenceb_> nice, so that configures just from openocd, no need to set within the code iself?
2024-03-21T11:49:25 < jpa-> correct
2024-03-21T11:50:41 < jpa-> for ITM only you can disable TPIU on line 58, that reduces the trace latency which can be useful to see the timing better
2024-03-21T11:51:08 < Laurenceb_> ok i'll give it a go
2024-03-21T11:51:16 < jpa-> though a simpler alternative is of course to just put PB3 as GPIO ;)
2024-03-21T11:51:29 < karlp> tricksy finnses..
2024-03-21T11:54:15 < karlp> nxp: we'll provide a linker scrip that automaticall yplaces the MTB buffer if you define it.
2024-03-21T11:54:27 < karlp> also nxp: we'll place that mtb buffer at the start of ram, a nice clear defined location
2024-03-21T11:54:48 < karlp> also nxp: we'll build a part that sets MTB_BASE to 0x1fffa000, even though start of ram is 0x1fff8000.
2024-03-21T11:55:09 < Laurenceb_> found the issue
2024-03-21T11:55:47  * PaulFertser expects to see Laurenceb_ parting now without sharing
2024-03-21T11:56:05 < Laurenceb_> its within stm32duino Serial driver, the Serial driver uses a ring buffer, that is split into two HAL transactions when the write wraps around
2024-03-21T11:56:08 < jpa-> PaulFertser: nooo.. i've already been holding my breath for over a minute
2024-03-21T11:56:13 < karlp> hang on, what!
2024-03-21T11:56:15 < karlp> lol
2024-03-21T11:56:23 < karlp> hahahaha
2024-03-21T11:56:30 < Laurenceb_> Serial driver is a wrapper around HAL driver
2024-03-21T11:56:31 < karlp> dweeno for lyfe
2024-03-21T11:56:35 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-03-21T11:56:58 < Laurenceb_> so it uses TXC for a single byte at the point when the ring buffer wraps around
2024-03-21T11:57:02 < jpa-> i think the more wrappers you add around the registers, the better your bugs become
2024-03-21T11:57:11 < Laurenceb_> heh
2024-03-21T11:57:21 < Laurenceb_> ok time for some coffee... then I fix this
2024-03-21T11:57:23 < qyx> that one was good
2024-03-21T11:57:34 < PaulFertser> Why would it use TXC ever, why?
2024-03-21T11:57:53 < qyx> for setting DE, eg?
2024-03-21T11:57:58 < qyx> (if no hw support)
2024-03-21T11:58:06 < jpa-> PaulFertser: because the underlying STM32 HAL driver wants to follow a model of   start transfer - do its thing - transfer fully complete
2024-03-21T11:58:07 < zyp> it's f1, of course there's no hw support
2024-03-21T11:58:12 < PaulFertser> I mean why would anyone expect HAL function to actually wait for TXC without explicit need to do that
2024-03-21T11:58:52 < jpa-> PaulFertser: because otherwise you might do something else before the transfer is fully complete.. such as disable RS485 transmit enable
2024-03-21T11:59:06 < qyx> or put the thing to stop
2024-03-21T11:59:20 < PaulFertser> jpa-: when you implement RS485 you think and care about TXC explicitly. In all other cases I see no reason why.
2024-03-21T11:59:41 < jpa-> lol, i don't think there was "think" or "care" involved at any point of this mess :D
2024-03-21T11:59:51 < PaulFertser> The HAL design you mean?
2024-03-21T12:00:04 < jpa-> HAL, stm32duino, etc.
2024-03-21T12:01:04 < PaulFertser> When you call POSIX write() you never expect that whatever is on the receiving side got all the data by the time the call returns, you only care that you are free to continue using your variables.
2024-03-21T12:01:25 < jpa-> sure, but you can also call POSIX write() again before the previous transfer finishes
2024-03-21T12:01:48 < jpa-> you cannot call HAL transmit again.. it will just return error code that you promptly discard without any indication and then wonder what happened to your data
2024-03-21T12:01:51 < PaulFertser> Yes. And HAL can't handle that meaningfully?
2024-03-21T12:02:20 < PaulFertser> O_NONBLOCK style is ok too if you're ready to handle it.
2024-03-21T12:06:57 < Laurenceb_> luckily profibus packets arent very long, so I can just brute force the Serial buffer head and tail to 0,0 before writing to it
2024-03-21T12:12:00 < karlp> ahh, tomorrow's bugs then..
2024-03-21T12:12:14 < karlp> I mean, flush and drain should do the same thing right?
2024-03-21T12:13:37 < Laurenceb_> no drain on tarduino stream class
2024-03-21T12:15:13 < Laurenceb_> https://pastes.io/9kj1ai0owh
2024-03-21T12:17:34 < jpa-> why not just bypass the arduino crap?
2024-03-21T12:17:39 < jpa-> and go for HAL directly
2024-03-21T12:19:52 < karlp> product requirements includes "must be arduino based for youtube views"
2024-03-21T12:20:47 < jpa-> arduino is great in that you only need to code at the 0.1x level, as long as you can debug at the 10x level
2024-03-21T12:22:44 < Laurenceb_> hyperboss asked for tarduino so its "easy for others to develop for"
2024-03-21T12:23:21 < Laurenceb_> problem is that tarduino libs themselves now have nasty patches
2024-03-21T12:23:43 < karlp> arduino as product requirements. top notch.
2024-03-21T12:23:50 < zyp> for some weird definition of «easy»
2024-03-21T12:24:01 < Laurenceb_> but nothing is as bad as my teensy low power mode libs...
2024-03-21T12:24:22 < Laurenceb_> I had to add a ton of patches to the tarduino code to stop it locking up
2024-03-21T12:25:11 < Laurenceb_> guess I'll just put git patches up on the work server
2024-03-21T12:29:26 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@cust226-dsl93-89-135.idnet.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2024-03-21T12:52:25  * nuxil yawns and takes a sip coffee
2024-03-21T12:55:59 < nuxil> jpa-, nice. im doing a lot of the same stuff, altho this is a bit more comprehensive, i was just doing it for a personal fun challenge. i didnt bother to do all the tigometry functions or sqrt, altho. mine i more precsice :P
2024-03-21T12:56:21 < nuxil> i return the full 16bit fraction parts, all digits, this limits it to 5 :P
2024-03-21T12:59:42 < nuxil> for 16 bit fraction that be in range. 0.0 to 0.9999847412109375
2024-03-21T13:02:56 < jpa-> well, 0.99998 (and any other 1/65536 fraction) is already perfectly representable with 5 decimal digits
2024-03-21T13:03:12 < jpa-> but i agree it does not do perfect rounding to nearest value
2024-03-21T13:03:25 < nuxil> its good enought tho.
2024-03-21T13:04:16 < jpa-> in practice soft float tends to be weirdly good in comparison with libfixmath
2024-03-21T13:10:08 < nuxil> have only used fixedpoint witht my own impletation in the past on avrs. but i didnt do str to fp and vs back then tho. 
2024-03-21T13:11:16 < nuxil> with all these modern mcu/soc etc and their fancy fpu's. doing fixedpoint is necomming a forgotten art. :p
2024-03-21T13:17:04 < qyx> guk usb everything
2024-03-21T13:17:07 < qyx> *fuk
2024-03-21T13:17:21 < qyx> nonworking usb hubs, nonworking usb cables, broken usb connectors
2024-03-21T13:17:35  * qyx ragemode
2024-03-21T13:18:33 < jpa-> nonworking usb code
2024-03-21T13:18:43 < jpa-> incompatible pinouts of usb connectors
2024-03-21T13:18:51 < jpa-> usb connectors putting NPTH too close to pads
2024-03-21T13:26:20 < qyx> yes
2024-03-21T13:26:48 < qyx> I want stlink over RS232
2024-03-21T13:37:04 < qyx> applications/v35v/app.c:12:178: warning: hex escape sequence out of range 12 | const uint8_t c_led_all_on[] = "\xa3aaa2aceinledcpwm\x8a\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff\x19\x01\xff";
2024-03-21T13:37:08 < qyx> why?
2024-03-21T13:39:41 < PaulFertser> a3aaa2ace looks like an overlong hex
2024-03-21T13:40:33 < PaulFertser> Add "" after a3
2024-03-21T13:43:07 < qyx> but \x should eat two chars only
2024-03-21T13:43:19 < qyx> it is 0xa3, 0x65, 0x65, etc..
2024-03-21T13:43:23 < qyx> it is a literal 'a'
2024-03-21T13:44:26 < zyp> qyx, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_sequences_in_C
2024-03-21T13:44:29 < PaulFertser> What if char isn't 8 bits on this platform?
2024-03-21T13:44:38 < zyp> > A hex escape sequence must have at least one hex digit following \x, with no upper bound; it continues for as many hex digits as there are. Thus, for example, \xABCDEFG denotes the byte with the numerical value ABCDEF16, followed by the letter G, which is not a hex digit.
2024-03-21T13:44:50 < qyx> 0x61 sorry
2024-03-21T13:45:04 < qyx> interesting, TIL
2024-03-21T13:46:04 < qyx> I hate computers
2024-03-21T13:46:21 < PaulFertser> "Hexadecimal escape sequences have no length limit and terminate at the first character that is not a valid hexadecimal digit. If the value represented by a single hexadecimal escape sequence does not fit the range of values represented by the character type used in this string literal the result is unspecified. " https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/escape
2024-03-21T13:47:00 < PaulFertser> qyx: what other occupation do you consider? I wonder if I can become a push bike mechanic if I get too dumb or too annoyed for IT one day.
2024-03-21T13:47:38 < zyp> looks like C++23 fixes this by letting you write \x{a3}
2024-03-21T13:48:23 < zyp> maybe next C revision will copy that
2024-03-21T13:48:31 < qyx> PaulFertser: famer
2024-03-21T13:48:34 < qyx> farmer
2024-03-21T13:49:59 < PaulFertser> I wonder if it's not too demanding and boring at the same time.
2024-03-21T13:54:16 < zyp> I'm planning to write a network stack, and contemplating how the APIs between the layers should work wrt. push/pull (i.e. which layer calls which)
2024-03-21T13:57:50 < qyx> PaulFertser: driving tractors, fixing tractors, keeping things offgrid, doing water supplies, doing greenhouses, interesting stuff
2024-03-21T13:57:53 < zyp> buffer management is simplified when the caller owns the buffer, since the callee then only needs to borrow it for the duration of the call
2024-03-21T14:01:19 < zyp> but if you're gonna allocate and own the buffer, you need to know how large it needs to be, which usually the source layer does
2024-03-21T14:09:11 < zyp> on the other hand, a receive handler can't necessarily block the entire receive path while it's transmitting a response, since the transmission might require e.g. an ARP/NDP lookup, which requires receiving the response
2024-03-21T14:44:40 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurenceb@cust226-dsl93-89-135.idnet.net] has joined ##stm32
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2024-03-21T14:50:24 -!- dkc [~dan@user/dkc] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
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2024-03-21T15:32:59 < karlp> jpa-: was litereally just answering manufacturer qustions about NTPH too close to tracks on a usb-c connector.  (and someone's altium rules that didn't catch it....)
2024-03-21T15:33:48 < karlp> and look a tthis damn thing, it's not even symmetric! https://www.we-online.com/components/products/datasheet/632722110112.pdf
2024-03-21T15:33:54 < karlp> (don't even think of looking at the price)
2024-03-21T15:46:58 -!- alan_o [~alan_o@2600:1700:1902:210f:98a8:1a2d:421c:78c5] has joined ##stm32
2024-03-21T16:32:56 < jpa-> i used DX07S024WJ3R400, it has NPTH even closer
2024-03-21T16:36:12 < aandrew> wow I haven't seen PaulFertser around, but perhaps I've just been blind
2024-03-21T16:39:50 < PaulFertser> aandrew: hey. I'm just not doing anything MCU-related these days.
2024-03-21T16:51:07 < aandrew> what've you been doing lately
2024-03-21T16:51:58 < BrainDamage> "ur mom"
2024-03-21T16:52:18 < aandrew> lol
2024-03-21T16:57:16 < PaulFertser> aandrew: boring job stuff related to OpenBMC
2024-03-21T16:59:11 < PaulFertser> aandrew: also getting insights into pinebook pro, that wasn't boring at all but I ended up being so angry at PINE STORE that I'm not able to comfortably use it anymore.
2024-03-21T16:59:40 < karlp>  W1205C: case: constant out of range for `int': 4013955072 (0xef401800)
2024-03-21T16:59:42 < karlp> woops.
2024-03-21T17:00:10 < jpa-> cast all the ints
2024-03-21T17:00:30 < karlp> I'm retiring an ol dbuild server, by migrating and containerising things
2024-03-21T17:01:42 < PaulFertser> aandrew: kinda funny how a software developer like me having just rudimentary electronics knowledge was able to find and fix an issue with charging that affected all the PBP owners all these years. And not funny at all how PINE STORE CEO tells me "ok thnx we might think about it one day if we are not too busy" even though fixing it is 0 change in BOM price.
2024-03-21T17:01:59 < karlp> someone started this a while ago, and it's building on linux, using wine to run some old 2002 win32 nxp? compiler tools.
2024-03-21T17:02:03 < karlp> it feels suuuuper crusty
2024-03-21T17:02:50 < jpa-> i think tomorrow i will need to figure out what to tell customer who wants to build nuttx on windows
2024-03-21T17:02:53 < karlp> no, sorry, fujisty fr...
2024-03-21T17:03:20 < jpa-> probably it will works easy enough with the "just install ubuntu and your windows is finally able to do something useful" thingy they have nowadays
2024-03-21T17:03:20 < PaulFertser> jpa-: is WSL not considered native enough for windows users?
2024-03-21T17:03:37 < jpa-> i hope it is
2024-03-21T17:04:35 < PaulFertser> There're two kinds of WSL though and they have differences in networking, WSL1 is essentially a container and WSL2 is a VM under HyperV control. So you can run avahi only on WSL2.
2024-03-21T17:05:06 < jpa-> i hope the client doesn't have some crazy policy against WSL
2024-03-21T17:05:43 < karlp> wsl2 still has terrible file perf?
2024-03-21T17:05:51 < PaulFertser> No idea
2024-03-21T17:06:14 < jpa-> hopefully not.. considering the nuttx build already takes 2+ minutes on linux with ssd
2024-03-21T17:37:09 < aandrew> PaulFertser: wow that's fucked up
2024-03-21T17:37:28 < aandrew> I have a rockpro64 that I like and have some bigger plans for
2024-03-21T17:37:52 < aandrew> I've also got a titan ridge thunderbolt PCIe card - the plan is to marry the two and see if I can't get TB3 on ARM64
2024-03-21T17:38:46 < aandrew> last year or the year before i got a really nice 4 bay NvME enclosure but it's TB3 only. If you connect to USBC (but not thunderbolt) it doesn't show up
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2024-03-21T18:25:53 < JocoRakic> Any suggestions for an "economic" I2C temperature and humidity sensor? Something SHT30. I see there is AHT20 but I never used those
2024-03-21T18:34:02 < aandrew> there are *lots* of choices. it really just comes down to budget and specifications (accuracy, range)
2024-03-21T18:34:28 < aandrew> they all work largely the same and years ago I evaluated a bunch and discovered that there are several vendors which seem to share the silicon
2024-03-21T18:34:42 < karlp> you won't get much cheaper for humidity.
2024-03-21T18:35:24 < karlp> ther eused to be a wonky honeywell variable capacitor you could buy super cheap, but it was wayyyyy harder to work with.
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2024-03-21T19:40:33 < qyx> shtc3 is my current favoirite one
2024-03-21T19:43:29 < nomorekaki> kicad failed to plot or open paste layer gerber for altium imported pcb
2024-03-21T19:43:42 < nomorekaki> it's just one big polygon blob
2024-03-21T19:44:15 < nomorekaki> is there any tools to automagically do gerber from solderstop layer
2024-03-21T19:44:17 < nomorekaki> ?
2024-03-21T19:44:28 < nomorekaki> or somewhat automatically
2024-03-21T19:47:20 < nomorekaki> it's not totally impossible that I draw that pastelayer with kicad by hand but hmm
2024-03-21T19:48:48 < nomorekaki> it renders fine in pcbnew
2024-03-21T19:53:08 < nomorekaki> did jlc have posibility for them generating solder mask?
2024-03-21T19:54:53 < nomorekaki> hmm I need gerbv.exe to check against gerbview.exe
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2024-03-21T19:55:19 < rpifan> hello al
2024-03-21T19:55:23 < rpifan> l
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2024-03-21T21:40:45 < nomorekaki> I just removed the misbehaving polygons by hand from gerber
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2024-03-21T21:50:44 < rpifan> so i have ended up with a dead stm32 board, a geehy apm32 to be exact. the software which managed to which the firmware was not able to flash it back on.
2024-03-21T21:50:53 < rpifan> is that something y'all can support here?
2024-03-21T21:50:57 < rpifan> i know nothing about these chips
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2024-03-21T21:57:27 < jpa-> rpifan: you could try to put it into bootloader mode using the BOOT0 pin
2024-03-21T22:00:30 < rpifan> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005636431546.html i dont see any obvious boot0 pin
2024-03-21T22:01:51 < karlp> qyx: no price difference vs the sht30 though?
2024-03-21T22:09:09 < jpa-> rpifan: you don't have the schematic?
2024-03-21T22:09:38 < jpa-> anyway you can check datasheet to see which pin on the chip it is
2024-03-21T22:10:27 < PaulFertser> rpifan: if you find the reset capacitor hold it with tweezers and use SWD to reflash.
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2024-03-21T22:16:48 < rpifan> sorry i keep disconnecting when y'all answer
2024-03-21T22:17:16 < rpifan> SWD? is that a utility? can i reflash it directly on top of the raspberry pi or should i try to connect the i2c or w/e pins?
2024-03-21T22:17:22 < rpifan> too bad i dont have my buss pirate anymore
2024-03-21T22:17:51 < rpifan> jpa-, unfortunately no, this thing was supposed to be fool proof just install it on top of the pi and it should work
2024-03-21T22:22:22 < PaulFertser> rpifan: raspberrypi can bitbang SWD directly if the target is using 3.3 V Vcc.
2024-03-21T22:22:36 < rpifan> it seems to have the option to connect via 3.3 or 5v
2024-03-21T22:22:40 < rpifan> there are two connections options
2024-03-21T22:23:27 < PaulFertser> rpifan: you need to get datasheet for this MCU and trace where the signals go. I suspect that unpopulated footprint for 4 pin header is SWD.
2024-03-21T22:24:17 < rpifan> 3.3v has clk gnd and somethin i cant read
2024-03-21T22:24:29 < rpifan> dio?
2024-03-21T22:24:48 < rpifan> 5v has rxd txd gnd
2024-03-21T22:24:51 < PaulFertser> rpifan: right, that's SWDIO
2024-03-21T22:25:28 < PaulFertser> rpifan: you can find some good blog posts which explain how to use rpi as a bitbanging swd adapter. You can also find some bad ones.
2024-03-21T22:26:33 < rpifan> yea the thing is already mounted on top of the pi and that is why in theory it shold work
2024-03-21T22:26:38 < rpifan> it was able to erase the firmware
2024-03-21T22:26:44 < rpifan> thats why the thing only lights up green now and nothing more
2024-03-21T22:27:02 < rpifan> but when it trys to get into flashing mode it says, one second i'll boot it up and give you the exact error
2024-03-21T22:32:05 < rpifan> Using Parser : Raw BINARY
2024-03-21T22:32:06 < rpifan> Size         : 319716
2024-03-21T22:32:06 < rpifan> Interface serial_posix: 57600 8E1
2024-03-21T22:32:06 < rpifan> Failed to init device, timeout.
2024-03-21T22:32:18 < qyx> we are saying SWD
2024-03-21T22:33:25 < qyx> also, what the hell is that
2024-03-21T22:33:41 < rpifan> in that case wuold it be easier for me to get one of those ttl serial to usb interfaces ?
2024-03-21T22:34:00 < rpifan> pistar uses the stm32flash 0.7
2024-03-21T22:34:48 < qyx> I am not sure you are following
2024-03-21T22:35:08 < qyx> arm chips are programmed using SWD
2024-03-21T22:35:37 < qyx> whether they have any sort of serial bootloader or not is the case of the particular manufacturer and/or chip family
2024-03-21T22:36:21 < qyx> in any case, or if the bootloader is bricked (when in flash) or if the bootloader is not present (some sort of stm32 clone) or broken in any other way, SWD is the way to go
2024-03-21T22:36:32 < qyx> the genuine stm32 bootloader cannot be overwritten
2024-03-21T22:36:41 < qyx> but idk if it is the case for the clones
2024-03-21T22:36:54 < qyx> I am not even sure you are using the system bootloader and you don't know either
2024-03-21T22:37:18 < qyx> so, what PaulFertser says, get the schematic, check how to bitbang SWD using rpi, flash new firmware using SWD
2024-03-21T22:37:38 < rpifan> i see 
2024-03-21T22:38:14 < rpifan> a lot more advanced then what i'ever played with
2024-03-21T22:43:58 < PaulFertser> rpifan: hm, 8E1 would suggest it's using the serial bootloader
2024-03-21T22:44:13 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2024-03-21T22:44:55 < PaulFertser> rpifan: so yes, find BOOT0 pin in the datasheet, find where it goes, and pull it accordingly to force it to use the ROM bootloader, it will work with stm32flash then without additional connections.
2024-03-21T22:44:57 < rpifan> i would suppose that if this was a 'genuine' product everything would work just fine but i was reading somewhere that these geehy chips are a tiny bit different
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2024-03-21T22:45:32 < rpifan> the pins really are tiny, do i need some 'special' kind of tweezers?
2024-03-21T22:45:57 < PaulFertser> rpifan: not really, those geehy chips are probably even better than original. They have newer cortex-m core :)
2024-03-21T22:46:23 < PaulFertser> rpifan: most probably boot0 is routed out somewhere on testpoint or something
2024-03-21T22:46:34 < rpifan> so it seems i've managed to partially review the board, it still isnt working but at least i got a red flashing led now
2024-03-21T22:46:46 < rpifan> revive*
2024-03-21T22:47:37 < rpifan> and the attached oled is now partially turning on
2024-03-21T22:48:13 < rpifan> but to be fair this is the state it was in when i first got the board
2024-03-21T22:50:52 < PaulFertser> The idea still applies. The MCU has bootloader in ROM and you can always make it run that on startup by setting the BOOT0 pin, then stm32flash will be able to reflash it.
2024-03-21T22:52:57 < rpifan> yea you are right i probably need to do that anyway, but yea if i have to use tweezers do you have any recommend type / brand
2024-03-21T22:53:43 < qyx> I guess any brand will do for shorting boot0
2024-03-21T22:53:52 < qyx> lidl branded scissors too
2024-03-21T22:54:14 < rpifan> hehe nice
2024-03-21T22:54:31 < rpifan> but the pins are so tiny, i need to ask someone who can hold their hands still, i shake too much
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2024-03-21T22:56:21 < qyx> I am sorry, was it too grumpy?
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2024-03-21T22:58:00 < qyx> python pros, what's the current way of doing Qt in py?
2024-03-21T22:59:16 < qyx> pyqt5/pyqt6?
2024-03-21T22:59:41 < PaulFertser> rpifan: trace the pin first, probably it's routed to a big testpoint or header even.
2024-03-21T22:59:53 < rpifan> i will give that a try as well
2024-03-21T23:01:35 < zyp> qyx, https://doc.qt.io/qtforpython-6/
2024-03-21T23:02:35 < qyx> hm why do they say on the pyqt6 page it is offcial by riverbank?
2024-03-21T23:02:45 < qyx> this definitely says something else
2024-03-21T23:03:41 < qyx> but looks very similar, so no prob
2024-03-21T23:03:43 < qyx> thanks
2024-03-21T23:04:01 < zyp> yeah, it's same same
2024-03-21T23:04:25 < zyp> I've been switching between pyside and pyqt multiple times over the years, don't notice much of a difference
2024-03-21T23:05:17 < zyp> every time I start something new the asyncio event loop I used last time is deprecated and replaced with a new fork or so
2024-03-21T23:05:35 < qyx> wait what, ok I failed, Qt is by trolltech, pyqt is riverbank
2024-03-21T23:05:42 < qyx> Qt is not riverbank, why did I think so?
2024-03-21T23:05:46 < zyp> idk
2024-03-21T23:05:53 < zyp> pyqt has always been riverbank
2024-03-21T23:05:54 < qyx> who is riverbank then
2024-03-21T23:06:15 < zyp> idk, they're «the pyqt guys» to me
2024-03-21T23:06:57 < qyx> so the official is more appropriate then
2024-03-21T23:07:16 < qyx> did you try with pyinstaller?
2024-03-21T23:08:27 < zyp> I'm intending to, but I haven't gotten to that point yet this time around
2024-03-21T23:09:05 < zyp> I used pyinstaller last time I did qt apps, 4-5 years ago
2024-03-21T23:09:10 < qyx> same here
2024-03-21T23:09:16 < zyp> at that time I might have used pyqt5
2024-03-21T23:09:21 < zyp> not entirely sure
2024-03-21T23:09:22 < qyx> with pyqt4, it migh have been around 2015
2024-03-21T23:10:05 < zyp> as for asyncio, there's now this thing: https://doc.qt.io/qtforpython-6/PySide6/QtAsyncio/index.html, but at least when I tried it it was too incomplete to be usable
2024-03-21T23:10:11 < qyx> I am about to do my device simulator for a "web developer guy working on windows"
2024-03-21T23:10:38 < zyp> so if you want async, you probably want this: https://github.com/CabbageDevelopment/qasync
2024-03-21T23:10:42 < qyx> so he can just clicky click some controls and the app responds to REST requests
2024-03-21T23:11:35 < zyp> IME it's much nicer to just have a signal kick off a coroutine rather than having to mess around with callbacks and shit
2024-03-21T23:12:09 < qyx> idk can't you just map the signal to a slot marked with a decorator and call it done?
2024-03-21T23:12:59 < zyp> that's what I do, except that slot is a coroutine, so it can await stuff without blocking the UI
2024-03-21T23:13:00 < qyx> https://doc.qt.io/qtforpython-6/quickstart.html#create-a-simple-qt-widgets-application
2024-03-21T23:13:10 < qyx> yeah
2024-03-21T23:13:19 < qyx> oh I am too dumb for coroutines yet
2024-03-21T23:13:42 < zyp> one of the utilities I made for old job was a tool to talk to a bootloader
2024-03-21T23:14:54 < zyp> so you hit the start button which kicks off the coroutine, which locks out the button while it's running, and does the whole sequence, outputting log data and finally reenabling the buttons in the UI
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--- Day changed pe maalis 22 2024
2024-03-22T00:05:49 < rpifan> finally got it all working on the ham radio side. there is still some error that probably requires that firmware update
2024-03-22T00:11:21 < zyp> karlp, which gcc versions are you currently using laks with? is -std=c++23 gonna cause problems for you? (supported from gcc12)
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2024-03-22T01:41:12 < karlp> nothing matters for me.
2024-03-22T01:41:22 < karlp> it's only for toys on the very few times I have motivation to do anything.
2024-03-22T01:41:37 < karlp> what are you doing with c++23?
2024-03-22T01:41:48 < karlp> are you going to do more magic?
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2024-03-22T03:40:43 < zyp> well, I want std::expected
2024-03-22T03:45:35 < zyp> in other news, I did some experimentation on shit for low-overhead ITM logging with host side formatting
2024-03-22T03:45:42 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/rTn5x8Tds
2024-03-22T03:47:04 < zyp> tl;dr: stick the format string and the argument types into a function template so they get encoded into the symbol, send the function pointer and the format arguments over ITM
2024-03-22T03:48:56 < zyp> then on the host: get the function pointer from ITM, look up the symbol from the address, decode the format string and the argument types from the symbol, get the argument values from ITM, format accordingly
2024-03-22T03:51:56 < zyp> the format string doesn't even go into the target flash, just into the ELF metadata
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2024-03-22T04:05:46 < zyp> I should probably redo rblog with this stuff as well, 
2024-03-22T04:52:26 < JocoRakic> What is the "official name" for that paperclip/springy thing you put on a oscilloscope probe to reduce wire loop?
2024-03-22T04:52:41 < JocoRakic> I have one and need few more but for the life of me can't figure out what I'm looking for on DigiKey
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2024-03-22T08:50:24 < qyx> ground spring?
2024-03-22T08:52:33 < qyx> also https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/40420/what-is-the-name-of-this-springy-type-oscilloscope-probe-accessory
2024-03-22T09:08:22 < jpa-> zyp: nice
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2024-03-22T10:53:33 < qyx> This bit is set by hardware when the counter has reached the value 0x40. It must be cleared
2024-03-22T10:53:36 < qyx> by software by writing ‘0’. Writing ‘1’ has no effect. This bit is also set if the interrupt is not
2024-03-22T10:53:39 < qyx> enabled.
2024-03-22T10:53:44 < qyx> the whole WWDG peripheral is super weird, such non-ST
2024-03-22T11:04:36 < karlp> zyp: how similar to rusts' defmt is that?
2024-03-22T11:06:37 < karlp> I'd definitely need bigger examples to follow what you're doing there :)
2024-03-22T11:08:30 < karlp> log_taag and log_value() are both doing the itm write right?
2024-03-22T11:09:06 < karlp> so you get a uint32_t or similar for the specific fmt string as well as eahc value then, ok.
2024-03-22T11:09:16 < zyp> yep
2024-03-22T11:09:39 < karlp> and the consteval is how the string gets "thrown out" of flash.
2024-03-22T11:09:47 < zyp> I just did a bit more trickery to get rid of the string suffix: https://godbolt.org/z/7jW6cMT1h
2024-03-22T11:10:03 < zyp> well, no, the template is
2024-03-22T11:11:14 < karlp> why does it need the string copy section? what's that doing?
2024-03-22T11:11:24 < karlp> I know it gets optimized out, but...
2024-03-22T11:12:54 < zyp> let's start at the end, recall how the template arguments of a templated function becomes part of the symbol, same trick I use for irq vectors
2024-03-22T11:13:29 < zyp> that's how the string ends up in the symbol instead of the flash
2024-03-22T11:14:20 < karlp> hrm, I only just sort of get that.  looks neat though, I can ... sort of follow it enough to use it :)
2024-03-22T11:14:28 < karlp> wouldn't be able to write it, but that's normal for c++ for me.
2024-03-22T11:15:20 < zyp> the issue is just that a const char* is not a legal template argument type, naturally because the address of the string literal is not known until linking, and the symbol name is created during compilation
2024-03-22T11:15:22 < karlp> I was looking at what std::expected was, and even the example had "wat" code for em, I'd never seen this double statement if, like "        if (const auto num = parse_number(str); num.has_value()) { // expected } else { // unexpected }"
2024-03-22T11:16:19 < karlp> ok, if with an "init statement" not a second condition
2024-03-22T11:16:20 < zyp> the if thing is not part of std::expected, it's just an initializer like for loops have
2024-03-22T11:16:22 < karlp> still cute.
2024-03-22T11:16:31 < karlp> yeah, I just hadn't seen it in an if before, ever.
2024-03-22T11:16:42 < karlp> yeah, I know it wasn't part of std:expected
2024-03-22T11:17:37 < karlp> init statment is c++17+ apparently.
2024-03-22T11:17:39 < zyp> std::expected is basically a specialized form of a tagged union like std::variant with two members; a normal return type (which can even be void) and an error return type
2024-03-22T11:18:10 < zyp> so it's a standardized way of returning errors without using exceptions
2024-03-22T11:20:56 < zyp> anyway, string pointer can't be passed to template argument, but std::array can, and by wrapping it in a class with an implicit constexpr constructor, I can still pass a string literal and have it converted
2024-03-22T11:22:11 < zyp> the tag emitted by test2 in the example is a function pointer to a function with the following signature:
2024-03-22T11:22:14 < zyp> void tag<fmt_str_t{std::array<char, 256u>{char [256]{(char)97, (char)32, (char)61, (char)32, (char)123, (char)125, (char)44, (char)32, (char)98, (char)32, (char)61, (char)32, (char)123, (char)125}}}, int, int>()
2024-03-22T11:23:10 < zyp> which is not very readable by itself, but easily convertible back to "a = {}, b = {}", int, int
2024-03-22T11:23:35 < karlp> right, now I think I get it more.
2024-03-22T11:23:54 < karlp> the host code has to either be a gdb plugin or do some complicated objdump?
2024-03-22T11:25:01 < zyp> not very complicated, but yeah, it'll need the elf to resolve the function pointer to a symbol name
2024-03-22T11:25:41 < zyp> I figure it'll work in a similar manner to how orbtop needs an ELF to show the function names
2024-03-22T11:35:04 < jpa-> to be more tolerant of elf updates, it could calculate a hash of the format string and use that instead of the function pointer; but it does have a small risk of collisions
2024-03-22T11:37:37 < zyp> yeah, I thought about that, but it'd still need a way to resolve hashes to strings
2024-03-22T11:51:45 < zyp> the objdump is about this complicated:
2024-03-22T11:51:46 < zyp> $ arm-none-eabi-objdump -Ct foo.elf | grep 'void tag<'
2024-03-22T11:51:46 < zyp> 000083e0  w    F .text  00000018 void tag<fmt_str_t{std::array<char, 256u>{char [256]{(char)105, (char)32, (char)61, (char)32, (char)123, (char)125}}}, int>()
2024-03-22T11:51:49 < zyp> 00008418  w    F .text  00000018 void tag<fmt_str_t{std::array<char, 256u>{char [256]{(char)97, (char)32, (char)61, (char)32, (char)123, (char)125, (char)44, (char)32, (char)98, (char)32, (char)61, (char)32, (char)123, (char)125}}}, int, int>()
2024-03-22T11:53:45 < qyx> oh unusual logging
2024-03-22T11:54:16 < qyx> recently I was reinventing the wheel too, logging into a ring buffer without actually constructing the string
2024-03-22T11:54:47 < qyx> just saving the format string const pointer and all arguments
2024-03-22T11:54:56 < karlp> that's "old" now :)
2024-03-22T11:55:05 < karlp> that was how zypðs old rblog worked.
2024-03-22T11:55:20 < qyx> yeah, reinventing..
2024-03-22T11:55:50 < qyx> is it available somewhere?
2024-03-22T11:56:13 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/util/rblog.h
2024-03-22T11:56:31 < zyp> also https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gdb_plugins/rblog.py?h=dev_v2
2024-03-22T11:58:36 < qyx> but that's too raw
2024-03-22T11:59:25 < qyx> and probably optimised for speed instead of size
2024-03-22T11:59:56 < zyp> I figure if I want to use this new thing in a ringbuffer, I'll push the arguments first and finally the tag
2024-03-22T12:00:30 < zyp> that way when reading it out, I start at the current pointer, read back the last tag written, which tells me how many/how big arguments I have before I get to the next tag
2024-03-22T12:30:18 < qyx> sorry I didn't finish, my goal was to stuff as much logs into a ring buffer as possible so I wanted to deduplicate format strings and just store the pointer and compress arguments somehow, my idea was to use protobuf encoding for varints and byte strings
2024-03-22T12:31:02 < zyp> ah, my goal is to be fast
2024-03-22T12:31:15 < qyx> and then an async process reads the ring buffer as fast as it is possible in order to not miss anything, constructs the actual message and saves to some nonvolatile mem (uSD, flash)
2024-03-22T12:31:46 < qyx> if it misses anything, nothing happens, it just saves "I missed 4 log messages"
2024-03-22T12:32:02 < zyp> I want to do close to zero overhead ITM logging
2024-03-22T12:32:21 < qyx> I also want multiple consumers to be able to write messages to console, to mqtt, to other iot sh.t
2024-03-22T12:32:53 < qyx> yeah not the same use case
2024-03-22T12:33:53 < qyx> regarding the format string, I wanted to invent something easily parsable
2024-03-22T12:34:07 < qyx> but then I realised the classic printf style is good enough probably
2024-03-22T12:34:49 < qyx> except I want to do %p, %8p, %4p, %2p for 0x00, etc.
2024-03-22T12:35:27 < qyx> also repeated, eg. %8*2p for 0x00 0x00 0x00 ... 0x00 (8x)
2024-03-22T12:35:48 < qyx> but I need to think about it a little bit more
2024-03-22T12:38:33 < zyp> I'm going to use {} style placeholders
2024-03-22T12:39:34 < zyp> since I get the type encoded in the tag, I don't need it specified in the format string
2024-03-22T12:42:22 < zyp> but yeah, I should probably make it so that I can do like log<"rx_buf: {}">(buf); and have it automatically break it into bytes and hexdump it
2024-03-22T12:43:08 < zyp> I can have a log_value() overload that takes a std::span and transfers it as length+bytes
2024-03-22T12:45:02 < karlp> both zephyr and linux added format % bits to do buffer prints didn't they?
2024-03-22T12:45:15 < karlp> c++ overloads sounds fancier of course...
2024-03-22T12:45:16 < zyp> idk
2024-03-22T12:45:52 < zyp> well, it's also the fact that I'm not parsing the format string in the firmware
2024-03-22T12:46:13 < karlp> yeah, all the %p stuff here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/printk-formats.txt
2024-03-22T12:46:27 < zyp> but if the argument type is a buffer type, I need to send it as a buffer
2024-03-22T12:46:51 < karlp> I love that shit like %pF got into the fucking kernel to specail case the style of using - instead of: in FDDI.
2024-03-22T12:47:13 < karlp> %pMF sorry.
2024-03-22T12:47:25 < zyp> :)
2024-03-22T12:50:04 < qyx> karlp: did they? I should probably copy that
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2024-03-22T12:53:07 < qyx> ok that's overly complex
2024-03-22T12:53:15 < karlp> zephyr has LOG_HEXDUMP_X stuff, not sure they added ito printk as well.
2024-03-22T12:58:18 < zyp> ah, the python formatting stuff is great, I can make objects with custom formatting hooks: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#object.__format__
2024-03-22T12:59:31 < zyp> so I can decode numeric arguments to plain python types, and then make custom types for buffers and other stuff I want to pretty print, and just feed it all to str.format() without having to make my own format string parser
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2024-03-22T13:05:55 < zyp> so I can easily do customizable buffer printing like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/doi2v
2024-03-22T13:19:02 < jpa-> what's the standard amount of time to wait for windows to finish "Preparing to configure Windows" before shutting it off and destroying the VM image?
2024-03-22T13:33:11 < karlp> heh, used __attribute__((aligned(MTB_BUFFER_WORDS*sizeof(uint32_t))))
2024-03-22T13:33:14 < karlp> no. not that
2024-03-22T13:33:33 < karlp> used __attribute__((aligned(1024)) on something that was uint32_t[1024]
2024-03-22T13:33:52 < karlp> the MTB wrapping worked "very well" and happily trampled memory in all sorts of places :)
2024-03-22T13:51:11 < PaulFertser> jpa-: another interesting thing about windows is that they still use some weird very O-heavy single-threaded algorithm to compute dependencies for windows update so in certain cases it can take many hours.
2024-03-22T13:51:33 < PaulFertser> jpa-: so you were forced to install windows yourself to find a way without WSL? :(
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2024-03-22T14:17:59 < ventYl> jpa-: these days, using reasonable hardware, it is matter of tens of seconds, up to units of minuts on initial updates
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2024-03-22T14:46:56 < jpa-> PaulFertser: i need it to even document how to do it with WSL
2024-03-22T14:47:07 < jpa-> and not even installing, just trying to start a virtual machine after long time of no use
2024-03-22T14:50:51 < ventYl> cannot the "WSL-based" solution be left as an excercise for the reader?
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2024-03-22T15:55:14 < jpa-> maybe if the reader wasn't a paying client..
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2024-03-22T17:22:55 < zyp> % ./find_tags.py foo.elf
2024-03-22T17:22:55 < zyp> 00008488: "i = {}", int
2024-03-22T17:22:57 < zyp> 000084d0: "a = {}, b = {}", int, int
2024-03-22T17:26:17 < zyp> I figured the mangled name would be as easy to parse as the unmangled name and eliminate the dependency on a demangler, so I wrote a simple parser
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2024-03-22T17:30:38 < zyp> the biggest issue left now is that the board I'd like to actually use this on doesn't have SWO :(
2024-03-22T17:31:31 < jpa-> so do the membuf thing?
2024-03-22T17:34:04 < zyp> it'd be nice if I could do it rtt style to have a live log, but I'm not sure I want to dig deeply enough to get it hooked into host side debug infrastructure right now
2024-03-22T17:38:11 < zyp> and SWO is faster
2024-03-22T17:39:00 < zyp> well, writing a ringbuffer should take fewer cycles, but SWO has more throughput
2024-03-22T17:42:48 < ColdKeyboard> How sensitive RS485 routing is? Can you have two connectors next to each other sharing A and B ? Are there any special requirements?
2024-03-22T17:48:10 < zyp> depends how fast and how long you're running it
2024-03-22T17:54:24 < karlp> IME liine biasing is far more likely to be an issue than the tiny stubs from sharing connectors for daisy chaining like that.
2024-03-22T17:55:23 < zyp> looks like the SWO pin might be unused, so I can probably just put a sensepeek probe on it or solder a bodge wire to it
2024-03-22T17:55:30 < zyp> gonna try that out later
2024-03-22T17:55:53 < karlp> ahhh swo.
2024-03-22T17:56:00 < karlp> the glory days of useful processors...
2024-03-22T17:58:31 < jbo> jpa-, how's the firestarter?
2024-03-22T18:05:30 < ColdKeyboard> zyp Can I also read while transmitting if I have full-duplex IC?
2024-03-22T18:05:43 < jpa-> jbo: BQ? haven't touched
2024-03-22T18:05:55 < jbo> too hot to touch? :D
2024-03-22T18:06:11 < jpa-> too emotionally distant
2024-03-22T18:06:21 < jpa-> it just flashes some leds and refuses to tell me how it really feels
2024-03-22T18:06:39 < jbo> can you I2C to it?
2024-03-22T18:06:58 < jpa-> nope
2024-03-22T18:07:05 < jpa-> doesn't respond
2024-03-22T18:07:46 < jbo> wait... _flashes_ LEDs? Did you add LEDs to STAT, CE, PG and that? Those shouldn't be flashing AFAIK
2024-03-22T18:08:10 < qyx> it probably cycles
2024-03-22T18:09:14 < jbo> jpa-, what happens if you don't give it any input power? can you I2C to it then?
2024-03-22T18:11:38 < jpa-> LEDs on STAT1 and STAT2 cycle, depending on input power
2024-03-22T18:12:08 < jbo> any chance that you goofed up ACN/ACP and/or SRN/SRP polarities?
2024-03-22T18:12:11 < jpa-> i can't I2C with VIN supply nor with BAT supply, the REGN is also low except when VIN is 10V exactly
2024-03-22T18:12:19 < jbo> wtf
2024-03-22T18:12:57 < jpa-> it could be dead again, or i might have some soldering problem, but either seems unlikely
2024-03-22T18:13:06 < jpa-> i even probed each pin to GND and no shorts
2024-03-22T18:14:10 < jbo> can you electrically separate the supply going through ACP/ACN resistor to the bridge from the actual VAC input?
2024-03-22T18:14:28 < jbo> I have only powered mine via the bat side so far
2024-03-22T18:15:01 < jpa-> i doubt that matters much when it doesn't even try to start the bridge
2024-03-22T18:15:46 < jpa-> but time to go grocery shopping
2024-03-22T18:18:02 < jbo> did you not create slave children for that?
2024-03-22T18:38:31 < BrainDamage> ok ceausescu
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2024-03-22T19:13:32 < qyx> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-Solenoid-Normally-Release-Fittings/dp/B09XFL8R9L
2024-03-22T19:13:46 < qyx> do you think this could be used for plant watering
2024-03-22T19:27:29 < specing> I'd take normally closed?
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2024-03-22T19:38:39 < qyx> yes
2024-03-22T19:38:57 < qyx> they are saying n/c
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2024-03-22T22:38:59 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: only if you wired full duplex as well...
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2024-03-22T23:37:44 < Laurenceb_> sup trawls
2024-03-22T23:38:03 < Laurenceb_> has anyone used hd4478 by writing directly to the DDRAM ?
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2024-03-22T23:50:38 < Livio> You mean Hitachi HD44780 parallel LCD displays?
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2024-03-22T23:53:55 < qyx> expecting xyproblem.info
--- Day changed la maalis 23 2024
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2024-03-23T00:41:22 < Steffanx> More like no problem at all qyx 
2024-03-23T00:44:03 < qyx> oh he left
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2024-03-23T00:50:55 < Laurenceb_> >MPLAB demo project github is by "Sachin Shewale"
2024-03-23T00:51:03 < Laurenceb_> I dont believe thats a real person
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2024-03-23T01:24:17 < zyp> this name mangling stuff is some rabbit hole…, I ended up learning how to use a parser-generator to make a nicer parser for mangled names so I get a nice browsable AST: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/WBQYf
2024-03-23T01:25:24 < zyp> not bad for 200 lines of code or so: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ExBre https://paste.jvnv.net/view/o8isq
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2024-03-23T20:34:54 < Laurenceb_> https://i.imgur.com/XWmN4ld.jpeg
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2024-03-23T21:14:55 < zyp> damn, RM0477 is pretty huge, even by ST standards
2024-03-23T21:15:22 < zyp> TOC alone is 81 pages, add in list of tables and figures and you're on page 120 before you even got to the first chapter
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2024-03-23T23:31:54 < Steffanx> Heh even more of the 3.1k pages of the H5 :D
2024-03-23T23:32:24 < Steffanx> than the*
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2024-03-23T23:46:09 < zyp> okay, my ITM logging magic works :)
2024-03-23T23:46:11 < zyp> % ./stream_log.py ../coro_sandbox/relay.elf
2024-03-23T23:46:11 < zyp> 22:40:57 main_relay.cpp:52 Hello world! 2 + 3 = 5
2024-03-23T23:46:11 < zyp> 22:40:57 main_relay.cpp:29 Current uptime: 0s
2024-03-23T23:46:11 < zyp> 22:40:58 main_relay.cpp:29 Current uptime: 1s
2024-03-23T23:46:13 < zyp> 22:40:59 main_relay.cpp:29 Current uptime: 2s
2024-03-23T23:48:08 < zyp> stream_log.py: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/nNEga, main_relay.cpp: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/nWGdI
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--- Day changed su maalis 24 2024
2024-03-24T00:06:02 < karlp> what's the loc() in teh log call?
2024-03-24T00:06:06 < karlp> looks pretty sexy.
2024-03-24T00:06:15 < karlp> now just commit it into a branch or something so I can find it again later :)
2024-03-24T00:06:49 < zyp> constexpr loc_t loc(std::source_location location = std::source_location::current()) {
2024-03-24T00:06:52 < zyp>     return {
2024-03-24T00:06:54 < zyp>         conv(location.file_name()),
2024-03-24T00:06:57 < zyp>         location.line(),
2024-03-24T00:06:59 < zyp>     };
2024-03-24T00:07:02 < zyp> }
2024-03-24T00:07:23 < karlp> I'm glad you went with a parser genrator for the symbols, much saner
2024-03-24T00:07:46 < zyp> i.e. it captures the source location of the call and encodes it in the same way as the format string
2024-03-24T00:08:15 < karlp> suspected something like that...
2024-03-24T00:10:49 < zyp> I also made the whole tag system generic so that it contains various named pieces of metadata, makes it easy to add more in the future
2024-03-24T00:11:34 < zyp> right now there's three kinds, format string, argument types and source location
2024-03-24T00:14:10 < zyp> host side figures out which are included in the tag: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/RjxjD
2024-03-24T00:14:16 < zyp> so they're effectively all optional
2024-03-24T00:15:29 < zyp> I figure I should probably add in a version suffix on each so I can change it if there's breaking changes
2024-03-24T00:21:27 < zyp> karlp, also, I'm planning on making a standalone project out of this
2024-03-24T00:21:34 < karlp> cool.
2024-03-24T00:21:43 < karlp> looks worth it.
2024-03-24T00:21:47 < karlp> there's some neat stuff there.
2024-03-24T00:21:59 < karlp> also, the wire doesn't hve to be swo....
2024-03-24T00:22:18 < karlp> orbtrace make sthat nice, but you could dump the same thing over a uart and have wayyyy less bandwidth requirements there too.
2024-03-24T00:22:31 < karlp> (you already knew that of course)
2024-03-24T00:22:41 < zyp> the microcontroller side doesn't really have any other dependencies than STL, and yeah, I plan to make the transport pluggable
2024-03-24T00:27:34 < zyp> I'm not sure exactly how flexible I should make the transport interface though
2024-03-24T00:28:27 < zyp> wrt. transfer sizes
2024-03-24T00:31:43 < zyp> e.g. ITM can do 8b, 16b and 32b packets, so it'd make sense to use the smallest that fits the argument type
2024-03-24T00:32:14 < zyp> and split arguments > 32b into 32b chunks
2024-03-24T00:33:16 < zyp> for an internal ringbuffer I'd just stick everything into 32b words
2024-03-24T00:33:25 < zyp> but put the tag last
2024-03-24T00:34:47 < zyp> because in a ringbuffer the oldest entry might be partially overwritten, so if the tag is first you'd be left with just an unknown number of arguments at the beginning of the buffer
2024-03-24T00:37:14 < zyp> with the tag last, you can start right before the write pointer and process backwards, stacking messages until you run out of complete ones, then go through the stack and print them
2024-03-24T00:38:08 < zyp> by the way, suggestions for project name?
2024-03-24T00:38:38 < zyp> it's currently named «qlog» for quick log, but that's not a very unique name
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2024-03-24T00:53:29 < qyx> lolg
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2024-03-24T00:54:02 < qyx> glog sounds better
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2024-03-24T04:48:01 < ColdKeyboard> If you are looking for very cheap CAN bus on a non-can MCU; the answer is basically RS485 with a custom protocol?
2024-03-24T04:49:31 < ColdKeyboard> Seems like CAN transciever and controller are going to be too expensive if you are just looking for a robust communication bus and have a 50c micro
2024-03-24T04:49:35 < ColdKeyboard> But I would love to be proven wrong :)
2024-03-24T04:53:37 < zyp> CAN and RS485 transceivers are fairly similar, wouldn't expect a price difference there
2024-03-24T04:53:58 < zyp> if you want CAN, switch to a mcu with CAN, otherwise do something else
2024-03-24T04:54:24 < ColdKeyboard> That's what I thought. Sticking to RS485 seems like a better/cheaper option
2024-03-24T04:55:02 < zyp> electrically CAN and RS485 are fairly similar, but above that layer they're entirely different
2024-03-24T04:55:29 < zyp> what properties of CAN do you want?
2024-03-24T04:57:46 < ColdKeyboard> Nothing critical but nice-to-have would be collision resiliance and having a protocol vs having to implement one
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2024-03-24T05:02:10 < zyp> the first one is a pretty big deciding factor, not just a nice to have
2024-03-24T05:04:05 < zyp> RS485-based stuff is typically command/response protocols with a single initiator, so collisions simply doesn't happen
2024-03-24T05:05:21 < zyp> and then you have multi-initiator stuff where you need to make sure they're not stepping on each other
2024-03-24T05:07:28 < ColdKeyboard> A while back I did ASCII only communication over RS485. It increases the amount of data but you can detect when there is collision and then both initiators back off for random preiod of time... Worked quite well but aso the bus usage was very low since it's was mostly ping-pong and sending small amount of data from time to time
2024-03-24T05:08:13 < ColdKeyboard> Wow, so many typos
2024-03-24T05:09:23 < zyp> as for your second point, the «protocol» you get is pretty much just a frame format
2024-03-24T05:09:43 < zyp> and for classic (non-FD) CAN, the frame payloads are so small they're annoying to work with
2024-03-24T05:09:59 < zyp> so you still get to invent your own protocol on top of CAN
2024-03-24T05:11:04 < ColdKeyboard> That's true. 8 bytes would probably be too tight and then if you need multi-packages, you need to structure them
2024-03-24T05:12:01 < zyp> yeah, easiest solution is probably to just layer ISO-TP on top of CAN
2024-03-24T05:12:37 < zyp> whereas on RS485 I'd probably use COBS
2024-03-24T05:13:15 < zyp> that's become my goto solution for a framing layer over a bytestream transport
2024-03-24T05:16:34 < ColdKeyboard> What's COBS?
2024-03-24T05:16:51 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_Overhead_Byte_Stuffing
2024-03-24T05:17:44 < ColdKeyboard> Oh I used it but didn't know it's called that :)
2024-03-24T05:17:47 < zyp> it's a nice and efficient way to escape zero bytes so you can use them as packet delimiters
2024-03-24T05:19:37 < zyp> perfect when you want to send binary frames over UART or TCP streams or similar
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2024-03-24T09:17:41 < qyx> the last time I used rx-timeout interrupt for framing and it works great
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2024-03-24T13:07:11 < PaulFertser> You can invent your own protocol or you can use CANopen.
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2024-03-24T13:12:11 < PaulFertser> There's CanFestival but the protocol itself is still complicated. Not as much as GSM but still annoying.
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2024-03-24T13:43:28 < fenugrec> IIRC canfestival == canopen no ?
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2024-03-24T13:51:27 < ventYl> can festival := festival of group consumption of surstromming
2024-03-24T13:56:47 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: canfestival is an LGPL library that implements canopen standard.
2024-03-24T13:57:07 < PaulFertser> (and some optional parts of that standard such as allocating addresses automatically)
2024-03-24T14:31:30 < fenugrec> I had briefly looked at it but decided I didn't need LSS and a lot of other stuff. Didn't have enough flash anyway for a 'full' stack
2024-03-24T15:03:22 < PaulFertser> The complexity is all in canopen itself.
2024-03-24T15:03:42 < PaulFertser> But often times it's a good trade off apparently.
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2024-03-24T15:40:36 < qyx> I did my own :s
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2024-03-24T16:22:42 < Laurenceb_> wtf... seriously https://crystalmark.info/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/CrystalDiskInfo9Aoi-en.png
2024-03-24T16:24:58 < Steffanx> whats the problem? Someone made theme for a tool...
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2024-03-24T17:16:15 < karlp> a tool that appeals to the sort of people who like themes
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2024-03-24T17:35:17 < Steffanx> lol ive used it, but just the "standard" version.
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2024-03-25T02:03:26 < zyp> karlp, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/TcSdu
2024-03-25T02:11:43 < nomorekaki> hello is this internets
2024-03-25T02:12:49 < nomorekaki> so cool
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2024-03-25T15:29:03 < karlp> I'm glad you picked a fish name again :)
2024-03-25T15:29:25 < karlp> what's this pdm stuff though?
2024-03-25T15:31:52 < karlp> looks more successful than mty MTB stuff
2024-03-25T15:32:02 < zyp> nevermind that, pdm is a python package manager, I'm just prefixing the command with «pdm run» because the package is not globally installed yet
2024-03-25T15:32:14 < karlp> I had an epiphany over the weekend, went to implement it rhis morning, ran into more bullshit mtb design fails.
2024-03-25T15:32:19 < karlp> I'm so over working on m0.
2024-03-25T15:32:29 < zyp> i.e. «pdm run» knows how to find it without it being in $PATH
2024-03-25T15:32:47 < karlp> goin back to printf and rtt and my fucking 2 breakpoints or whatever the fucking limit is.
2024-03-25T15:34:07 < karlp> you should add formatter_class=argparse.ArgumentDefaultsHelpFormatter to your argumentparser constructor...
2024-03-25T15:34:23 < karlp> (it should be the default IMO)
2024-03-25T15:35:06 < zyp> the fish name were kinda accidental, I was going for an acronym around «minimal-overhead logging»
2024-03-25T15:35:32 < zyp> while trying to keep it unique
2024-03-25T15:36:07 < zyp> so now it's «small minimal-overhead logging toolkit» or something like that
2024-03-25T15:38:42 < zyp> also, I'm not using argparse directly, I decided to try click
2024-03-25T15:45:02 < karlp> wow, click really want and made it a bit tricky to show defaults.
2024-03-25T15:45:11 < karlp> flask building the world again it seems.
2024-03-25T15:45:26 < karlp> not saying that's bad :)
2024-03-25T15:45:29 < zyp> nah, apparently it's just a show_default=True
2024-03-25T15:45:43 < karlp> yeah, when you already know what to look for :)
2024-03-25T15:45:55 < karlp> I had to go through three bug reports after not being able to find it in the docs :)
2024-03-25T15:46:51 < zyp> this was the top hit for my google search: https://stackoverflow.com/a/64154313
2024-03-25T15:47:29 < karlp> ah well, just you succeeding and me failing again then I guess :) par for the course....
2024-03-25T15:48:16 < zyp> anyway, I'm gonna make that stuff prettier later, there's more important stuff I need to take care of first
2024-03-25T15:48:26 < karlp> like "git push" :9
2024-03-25T15:56:13 < zyp> last night I discovered that clang rejected my trick to pack a string into a symbol
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2024-03-25T15:56:53 < zyp> not sure exactly why, and whether it's gcc that's too lenient or clang that's too strict compared to the standard
2024-03-25T15:57:30 < zyp> but I worked out another way
2024-03-25T16:02:32 < zyp> wait, wat, I just had another look and worked out how to get the first way to work in clang too
2024-03-25T16:03:03 < zyp> problem solved then, the workaround was uglier :)
2024-03-25T16:06:23 < zyp> stupid fucking difference: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zXZTO
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2024-03-25T21:09:05 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used hd4478 screens before?
2024-03-25T21:09:25 < Laurenceb_> if I get a top row of all black characters, does it mean init failed?
2024-03-25T21:09:53 < zyp> is it a two row display?
2024-03-25T21:10:46 < zyp> IIRC they start out with the even rows fully filled
2024-03-25T21:23:24 < Laurenceb_> ah ok
2024-03-25T21:23:28 < Laurenceb_> yeah its 2 row
2024-03-25T21:24:32 < Laurenceb_> I tried reflashing the pic16f7 on an olimex 16x2 display, it seemed to work but was glitchy, then programmer wasnt responding, unplugged usb and plugged it back in, it said programmed and verified, but now the screen it unresponsive
2024-03-25T21:24:41 < mawk> yes I used before
2024-03-25T21:24:52 < Laurenceb_> hope I didnt fry the pic, but programmer seems to be saying its verified
2024-03-25T21:24:53 < mawk> and never had your issue
2024-03-25T21:25:21 < Laurenceb_> every time I connect with pickit, it says "unrecognised device id"
2024-03-25T21:25:29 < mawk> could it be a fake pic?
2024-03-25T21:26:04 < Steffanx>  A better question would be: who never used a hd44780 compatible display?
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2024-03-25T21:26:18 < qyx> Steffanx: me
2024-03-25T21:26:31 < qyx> I never used any alphanumeric display
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2024-03-25T21:27:11 < Steffanx> You didn't make your own display qyx? ;)
2024-03-25T21:27:22 < qyx> wat
2024-03-25T21:27:29 < mawk> ;)
2024-03-25T21:27:39 < mawk> what kind of gas is lighter fluid
2024-03-25T21:27:44 < qyx> butane
2024-03-25T21:27:44 < mawk> what can I replace it with
2024-03-25T21:27:48 < qyx> butane
2024-03-25T21:27:50 < mawk> I mean zippo-like lighter
2024-03-25T21:27:53 < zyp> mawk, most gases are lighter than fluids
2024-03-25T21:27:53 < mawk> not the butane lighters
2024-03-25T21:28:02 < mawk> gas = benzine = gasoline = petrol
2024-03-25T21:28:13 < mawk> :(
2024-03-25T21:28:38 < mawk> there is starter fluid at the hardware store that you're supposed to spray somewhere in your engine when the car doesn't start
2024-03-25T21:28:44 < mawk> that sounds like something that would work
2024-03-25T21:28:49 < qyx> yes, propane/butane
2024-03-25T21:28:50 < mawk> but it's annoying to get out of the can
2024-03-25T21:28:53 < mawk> noooo
2024-03-25T21:29:01 < qyx> starter fluid is not a fluid
2024-03-25T21:29:03 < mawk> gasoline, not butane
2024-03-25T21:29:14 < mawk> it wouldn't be called fluid if it wasn't a fluid
2024-03-25T21:29:48 < Steffanx> Brake cleaner works great too sometimes 😜
2024-03-25T21:30:01 < zyp> mawk, anyway, are you really asking «what kind of liquid is gasoline?»?
2024-03-25T21:30:13 < mawk> no
2024-03-25T21:30:17 < mawk> what kind of liquid is lighter fluid
2024-03-25T21:30:21 < mawk> that goes into lighters
2024-03-25T21:30:31 < mawk> is it a special alkane mix or can I use anything vaguely labeled as gasoline
2024-03-25T21:30:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: "Consists of a combination of particularly highly flammable substances and is ideal for all gasoline and diesel engines." https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/start-fix-p000514.html not suitable for zippo
2024-03-25T21:30:59 < Steffanx> Get official "Zippo fluid" 
2024-03-25T21:31:12 < PaulFertser> I think it's pure enough petrol
2024-03-25T21:31:13 < zyp> how about cleaning gasoline?
2024-03-25T21:31:16 < mawk> started fluid is diethylether and pentane
2024-03-25T21:31:20 < mawk> starter*
2024-03-25T21:31:27 < mawk> sounds great to huff
2024-03-25T21:31:39 < mawk> it's expensive Steffanx 
2024-03-25T21:31:45 < mawk> and it's not in the DIY spirit
2024-03-25T21:31:49 < BrainDamage> kerosene
2024-03-25T21:31:53 < Steffanx> So get "wasbezine"
2024-03-25T21:32:40 < zyp> it's not bezine anymore?
2024-03-25T21:32:43 < mawk> do they still sell that Steffanx 
2024-03-25T21:32:44 < qyx> also who the hell started callin petrol a "gas", gas is gaseous
2024-03-25T21:32:46 < mawk> they don't even sell acetone
2024-03-25T21:32:51 < qyx> I bet americans
2024-03-25T21:32:54 < mawk> only the bullshit eco variants
2024-03-25T21:33:06 < BrainDamage> qyx: it's gas from gasoline
2024-03-25T21:33:09 < Steffanx> AH sells it mawk
2024-03-25T21:33:15 < mawk> in french it's essence
2024-03-25T21:33:19 < mawk> which means spirit
2024-03-25T21:33:25 < mawk> it makes total sense
2024-03-25T21:33:34 < BrainDamage> you want white spirit/kerosene
2024-03-25T21:33:42 < PaulFertser> Looks legit https://www.primalsurvivor.net/zippo-fuel-alternatives/
2024-03-25T21:34:01 < qyx> we have a plenty of "technic benzin" and alternatives which could work
2024-03-25T21:34:06 < Steffanx> wd 40 lol
2024-03-25T21:34:07 < Laurenceb_> diy oil refinery for frencies
2024-03-25T21:34:21 < Steffanx> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi124098/sel-wasbenzine there you go mawk
2024-03-25T21:34:26 < PaulFertser> qyx: guess who calls NFC in bank cards "WiFi"
2024-03-25T21:34:55 < mawk> primal survivor
2024-03-25T21:35:01 < PaulFertser> Kerosene would be hard to ignite from sparks alone
2024-03-25T21:35:08 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: chinese call everything wifi
2024-03-25T21:35:14 < mawk> I'm pretty sure that's scented and smells horrible Steffanx 
2024-03-25T21:35:14 < BrainDamage> it's on a wick
2024-03-25T21:35:25 < mawk> my grandmother calls everything wifi too
2024-03-25T21:35:30 < mawk> and every phone is an "iphone"
2024-03-25T21:35:33 < Steffanx> its ony 3 euro bucks, so just get it, mawk
2024-03-25T21:35:36 < mawk> even though she never had one
2024-03-25T21:35:39 < Laurenceb_> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sxYAAOSwBhtl8rHm/s-l1600.jpg
2024-03-25T21:35:46 < Laurenceb_> reeee pic is under screen
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2024-03-25T21:36:08 < mawk> why are you even caring to modify such simple board Laurenceb_ 
2024-03-25T21:36:14 < Laurenceb_> tomorrow I will try reflashing with original formware
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2024-03-25T21:36:23 < Laurenceb_> mawk: because enclosure is already made
2024-03-25T21:36:30 < qyx> I hate all those "spirit", "gas", "paint thinner", "rubbing alcohol" names
2024-03-25T21:36:33 < Laurenceb_> and the stock firmware is useless
2024-03-25T21:36:40 < mawk> rubbing alcohol is just isopropanol
2024-03-25T21:36:44 < mawk> at least the name makes sense
2024-03-25T21:36:47 < mawk> it's alcohol for rubbing
2024-03-25T21:36:47 < qyx> so they should say isopropanol
2024-03-25T21:36:50 < mawk> alcool à friction
2024-03-25T21:36:53 < mawk> it's like the medical name
2024-03-25T21:37:00 < PaulFertser> I think White Spirit should be close enough to kerosene so you can try experimenting if it's easy to igniite on a wick or not.
2024-03-25T21:37:10 < mawk> right PaulFertser 
2024-03-25T21:37:19 < mawk> it smells a bit strong, I'll see if it works
2024-03-25T21:37:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: my point is that I do not recommend it, I do not expect it to be nice for lighter and not easy to ignite.
2024-03-25T21:39:35 < PaulFertser> And primalsurvival article seems to be sane.
2024-03-25T21:39:50 < PaulFertser> To start a kerosene lamp one needed actual fire I think.
2024-03-25T21:40:36 < BrainDamage> mawk: rubbing alcohol is 70% alcohol, not necessarily isopropanol, but most often is
2024-03-25T21:41:29 < BrainDamage> both ethanol and isopropanol can be used, as they have similar disinfection power, what's cheaper is used
2024-03-25T21:41:45 < BrainDamage> and 70% because it has better disinfectant power at 70% than when pure
2024-03-25T21:43:03 < Laurenceb_> maybe I fried the pic by hot swapping the pickit3?
2024-03-25T21:43:16 < Steffanx> yes
2024-03-25T21:43:20 < zyp> maybe the pic just died of old age
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2024-03-25T21:43:35 < zyp> why are you dicking around with that shit anyway?
2024-03-25T21:43:46 < Laurenceb_> yet mplab says flash verfiied...
2024-03-25T21:43:59 < Laurenceb_> zyp: enclosure is made yet screen is too slow
2024-03-25T21:44:22 < zyp> why is a pic involved then? why don't you drive it from your stm32 or what have you
2024-03-25T21:44:25 < Laurenceb_> idea was to fix the broken olimex firmware which only managed 50chars/s
2024-03-25T21:44:43 < Laurenceb_> I only have 4 conductor cable to the screen - running i2c
2024-03-25T21:45:33 < zyp> so ditch the pic, make a new adapter using stm32
2024-03-25T21:46:18 < Laurenceb_> yeah but that will take more time than reflashing the pic with non lame code... or so the theory went
2024-03-25T21:46:35 < zyp> and how well that worked out
2024-03-25T21:46:45 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-03-25T21:47:03 < Steffanx> Nah use stm8 for real cheap 8 bit awesomeness
2024-03-25T21:47:10 < Laurenceb_> has anyone here got experience using PIC with pickit?
2024-03-25T21:47:17 < zyp> yeah, like two decades ago
2024-03-25T21:47:25 < Steffanx> Sure. And it has always worked for me.
2024-03-25T21:47:27 < Laurenceb_> I'm unsure if the "verified" output means its ok
2024-03-25T21:47:37 < Laurenceb_> guess I could try reading the flash and comparing
2024-03-25T21:47:38 < BrainDamage> same, 2 decades ago
2024-03-25T21:47:41 < BrainDamage> long forgotten
2024-03-25T21:49:13 < qyx> no, because it was already old 2 decades ago
2024-03-25T21:49:35 < Laurenceb_> lol
2024-03-25T21:49:39 < qyx> I was moving from 68hc11 to avr at that time
2024-03-25T21:49:55 < Steffanx> 68hc11 .. you're old qyx
2024-03-25T21:49:57 < qyx> and trashed avr in 2012
2024-03-25T21:50:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: so where did you get the non lame firmware from and why do you think it's suitable for this board?
2024-03-25T21:50:46 < Laurenceb_> I wrote it
2024-03-25T21:51:11 < Steffanx> maybe you should start with hello world blinky or get your logic analyzer out or something
2024-03-25T21:51:13 < qyx> Steffanx: not tha much older than you?
2024-03-25T21:51:13 < Laurenceb_> https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/Shields/SHIELD-LCD16x2/open-source-hardware
2024-03-25T21:51:43 < Steffanx> You're almost 40, qyx  :P
2024-03-25T21:52:05 < Laurenceb_> I added buffer between interrupt that receives the data and actual LCD write routine, and rewrote the delay code to delay for the correct time not 32 times longer than it should
2024-03-25T21:52:16 < Laurenceb_> also added watchdog
2024-03-25T21:52:27 < Laurenceb_> hmm maybe I screwed up and put it into WDT reset loop
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2024-03-25T22:28:17 < catphish> i would never endorse tax evasion, but it transpires that JLCPCB allow you to order parts to be held in their warehouse for future assembly orders, and then obviously don't charge for parts that you already own when assembling boards, and only calculate tax on what you actually pay for an assemby order
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2024-03-25T22:46:09 < Laurenceb_> hmm I think I screwed up my codes epic tiem
2024-03-25T22:46:34 < Laurenceb_> didnt realise pic16f7 is a non completely shit core - it can do single cycle instructions, so my init delays are way off
2024-03-25T22:47:07 < Laurenceb_> I bet I was ok in initial testing as the display was already initialised and hadn't been power cycled since previous codez were running
2024-03-25T22:47:43 < Laurenceb_> I should probably just copypasta pic16f7 delay code from some pic guru
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2024-03-25T22:49:44 < Laurenceb_> the random glitches were probably because my timing was way off - I thought it was ram corruption but it was too random
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2024-03-25T23:00:52 < Laurenceb_> actually this would not explain why the backlight does not turn on
2024-03-25T23:03:00 < PaulFertser> The backlight on typical LCD based HD44780 is just a LED that's controlled externally if at all.
2024-03-25T23:04:38 < Laurenceb_> yeah, its not turning on, suggesting pic16f issue
2024-03-25T23:05:34 < PaulFertser> So reduce your code to not do anything at all, no watchdog, nothing, just control the LED?
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2024-03-25T23:51:00 < Laurenceb_> yeah I'll try that tomorrow
--- Day changed ti maalis 26 2024
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2024-03-26T06:51:20 < octorian> Looks like my effort to switch my project from the ST Middleware USB Host Library over to CherryUSB is going well, overall.
2024-03-26T06:52:02 < octorian> I feel like the ST stack might be "architected" better, in some sense, but CherryUSB supports a lot more of the total problem space and I'm also a lot more comfortable hacking on it for my project.
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2024-03-26T10:53:07 < ventYl> OK, I came to something that uses Makefiles to run cmake which in turn generates ninja build system
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2024-03-26T11:42:08 < Laurenceb_> sup trawls
2024-03-26T11:42:21 < Laurenceb_> olimex screen works once I loaded old codez
2024-03-26T11:42:28 < Laurenceb_> something is wrong with muh codez
2024-03-26T11:42:30 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: so got your code debugged?
2024-03-26T11:42:35 < Laurenceb_> lolno
2024-03-26T11:42:50 < Laurenceb_> I think it must be option bytes or something - even LED flash demo wont run
2024-03-26T11:43:30 < PaulFertser> So how are your impressions from pic16f (?) so far?
2024-03-26T11:43:55 < PaulFertser> Would you enjoy it 25+ years ago?
2024-03-26T11:44:05 < Laurenceb_> lolno
2024-03-26T11:44:24 < Laurenceb_> I'll have to compare hex files
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2024-03-26T11:45:25 < jpa-> i did enjoy pic16f 25+ years ago
2024-03-26T11:45:45 < jpa-> my biggest achievement was dividing two 32-bit numbers'
2024-03-26T11:45:51 < Laurenceb_> it would help if I knew how hex files are structured lol
2024-03-26T11:45:57 < PaulFertser> I've heard people liked PICs before AVRs became common and cheap.
2024-03-26T11:46:09 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: convert to bin with objcopy
2024-03-26T11:46:41 < qyx> yes I heard people liked peeing in the garden before toilets became common
2024-03-26T11:47:09 < jpa-> my brother in law still does..
2024-03-26T11:47:30 -!- scrts [~scrts2@23.28.144.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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2024-03-26T11:47:39 < PaulFertser> If the garden is big enough, and you don't do it at the same place every time...
2024-03-26T11:51:11 < Laurenceb_> ok wtf
2024-03-26T11:51:25 < Laurenceb_> copied firmware (which works) starts with      :020000040000FA
2024-03-26T11:51:38 < Laurenceb_> mine is :020000001028C6
2024-03-26T11:53:04 < jpa-> just different address format
2024-03-26T11:54:17 < jpa-> i think the :020000001028C6  may be some microchip special for setting fuses or something
2024-03-26T11:54:25 < Laurenceb_> ah ok
2024-03-26T11:54:34 < Laurenceb_> wait wtf something looks badly wrong to me
2024-03-26T11:54:47 < Laurenceb_> :020000001028C6
2024-03-26T11:54:48 < Laurenceb_> :10000800FE00030E83120313C2000408C3000A088B
2024-03-26T11:55:09 < Laurenceb_> first line is data? starting at 0x0000, then there is more data at 0x08
2024-03-26T11:55:18 < PaulFertser> Wikipedia article on Intel HEX is enough to understand that.
2024-03-26T11:55:19 < Laurenceb_> thats my code and it looks screwed
2024-03-26T11:55:21 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2024-03-26T11:55:28 < Laurenceb_> I'm reading that article
2024-03-26T11:55:58 < Laurenceb_> cloned hex file looks ok to me, but generated hex is screwed
2024-03-26T11:57:44 < Laurenceb_> I'll try asking on microchip irc, something looks badly wrong to me
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2024-03-26T12:02:08 < jpa-> if you don't use interrupts other than reset vector, it is normal for words 0x0002 to 0x0007 to be left empty, and the code starts at 0x0008
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2024-03-26T12:13:30 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: ah ok, looks like both hex files do do that
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2024-03-26T12:17:36 < Laurenceb_> ah looks like olimex have a copy of their mplab hex file, and start is identical to mine
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2024-03-26T12:25:11 < Laurenceb_> ok wut... memory addresses seem to high for both hex files
2024-03-26T12:27:06 < Laurenceb_> oh its 2 bytes wide, I see
2024-03-26T12:33:17 < Laurenceb_> I'll try debugging with pickit
2024-03-26T12:51:52 < karlp> ventYl: heh, that's my world, make runs cmake runs make/ninja.
2024-03-26T12:52:08 < karlp> if I have ninja selected though, the chain fucks up and won't run menuconfig anymore.
2024-03-26T12:52:58 < karlp> lolrence still lolrencingas usual I see...
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2024-03-26T13:47:19 < Laurenceb_> ok wtf
2024-03-26T13:47:32 < Laurenceb_> led flash demo wont run on muh pic16f
2024-03-26T13:47:42 < Laurenceb_> also debugging isnt supported by pickit3
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2024-03-26T13:56:38 < karlp> the lolrencing continues unabated.
2024-03-26T13:57:19 < specing> indeed
2024-03-26T13:57:32 < specing> I can't believe Laurenceb_ fell so low as to be working on PICs
2024-03-26T14:02:56 < Mangy_Dog> I have a STM32F030RCT6TR trying to setup some test firmware project in platform io.... Was hoping there be a generic setup already for this chip, but cant seem to find it. Anyone know of a guide to get a project setup working?
2024-03-26T14:03:13 < Mangy_Dog> ie making a custom setup in platform io
2024-03-26T14:03:33 < zyp> I don't think there's a lot of platformio users here
2024-03-26T14:04:07 < Mangy_Dog> what are people using now?
2024-03-26T14:04:13 < Mangy_Dog> I was trying to get away from eclipse :p
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2024-03-26T14:10:52 < Laurenceb_> I'm using mplab
2024-03-26T14:11:15 < Laurenceb_> to fail at led flash
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2024-03-26T14:25:39 < Laurenceb_> fixed it, it was default xtal settings in mplab
2024-03-26T14:39:39 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: so it wanted external xtal but you didn't have it on board or what?
2024-03-26T14:42:11 < t4nk_fn> no, he probably just used the wrong settings for the xtal in the software
2024-03-26T14:42:47 < t4nk_fn> if you can call mplab software ;)
2024-03-26T14:46:28 < t4nk_fn> checking the configuration word is the least one can do btw hehe
2024-03-26T14:46:56 < t4nk_fn> real men code pics in asm btw! :b
2024-03-26T14:48:25 < Laurenceb_> PaulFertser: pic was outputting a MCO on the xtal pins, but xtal was populated, apparently that stops its from properly booting
2024-03-26T14:48:45 < Laurenceb_> it was set to run from RC oscillator
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2024-03-26T14:50:04 < PaulFertser> Interesting how MCO can do that
2024-03-26T14:52:33 < jpa-> internal RC, or external RC :)
2024-03-26T14:52:52 < Laurenceb_> internal lol
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2024-03-26T15:39:14 < machinehum> I nead cheap linear motion
2024-03-26T15:40:34 < machinehum> Has anyone wrapped a linear bearing in copper wire and tried to move a cylindrical piece of ferrous metal though it by inducing a b field?
2024-03-26T15:40:44 < machinehum> I guess it wouldn't be that strong
2024-03-26T16:01:36 < jpa-> ebay linear actuators not cheap enough for you?
2024-03-26T16:01:54 < BrainDamage> solenoid actuators should be decently cheap
2024-03-26T16:02:26 < jpa-> solenoids or magnets moving inside a coil are cheap enough, but it's hard to control the position other than hitting each endstop
2024-03-26T16:03:30 < BrainDamage> there's a variant with steppers where it's a sequence of NSNS magnets, but it's more expensive
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2024-03-26T16:03:58 < Laurenceb_> lolimex lcd fixed, its lightening fast now
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2024-03-26T16:11:54 < machinehum> It not just cheapness, they also need to be quite narrow in the two 
2024-03-26T16:12:09 < machinehum> "non-motion" dimenstions
2024-03-26T16:13:11 < machinehum> Need a head surface of 1cm², and quite a few of them
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2024-03-26T16:13:33 < machinehum> In the hundreds
2024-03-26T16:14:01 < machinehum> This seems somewhat impossible
2024-03-26T16:14:25 < machinehum> 4cm² would also maybe be alright as well
2024-03-26T16:15:00 < machinehum> Basically a stamping array where you can independently control each stamper thing
2024-03-26T16:32:48 < qyx> stamping?
2024-03-26T16:33:10 < qyx> so a bit of kinetic is okay then?
2024-03-26T16:33:32 < qyx> not precise slow motion but stamp as hard as you can until it stops?
2024-03-26T16:34:46 < machinehum> Known pressure would be ideal, mimicking a finger pushing down
2024-03-26T16:35:13 < machinehum> https://hackaday.io/project/180070/gallery#03593ea16040ae12c772d42327076bfb
2024-03-26T16:35:15 < machinehum> Kinda cool
2024-03-26T16:35:39 < machinehum> No change of those little chinese 1.5$ motors breaking
2024-03-26T16:35:43 < machinehum> chance*
2024-03-26T16:44:07 < jpa-> https://hackaday.io/project/191181-electromechanical-refreshable-braille-module  maybe the ideas from this would be useful?
2024-03-26T16:47:51 < jpa-> so are you doing some fingerprint bruteforcer or what?
2024-03-26T16:50:18 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: are you opensourcing your alternative firmware?
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2024-03-26T17:59:14 < machinehum> jpa-: Thanks
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2024-03-26T18:06:55 < Laurenceb_> PaulFertser: nope but I could stick it up somewhere...
2024-03-26T18:07:41 < BrainDamage> I have a suggestion where you could stick it up to
2024-03-26T18:08:50 < Laurenceb_> https://pastes.io/dozvga8jqt
2024-03-26T18:09:14 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: offer it to Olimex probably? They seem to be nice and friendly
2024-03-26T18:09:47 < Laurenceb_> ok I guess lol
2024-03-26T18:11:07 < Laurenceb_> I made the time delays sane and added a buffer between the interrupt and lcd. Also uart command processing is more sane with fewer string functions
2024-03-26T18:14:27 < PaulFertser> Sounds useful
2024-03-26T18:35:45 < t4nk_fn> lol, BrainDamage 
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2024-03-26T20:11:53 < Posterdati> hi
2024-03-26T20:14:14 < qyx> lo
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2024-03-26T20:18:10 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcjuoEZg8rI playing GTA vice city on a router
2024-03-26T20:18:57 < nomorekaki> powerpc cpu, external gpu
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2024-03-26T20:22:21 < nomorekaki> router is 2013
2024-03-26T20:26:58 < PaulFertser> The same dev is behind this nice looking and probably useful UPS https://kittenlabs.de/dc-ups/
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2024-03-26T20:28:40 < PaulFertser> Less useful bitbanging IDE https://kittenlabs.de/pata-gpio/ and even more weird project to replace PCB in cute night lamps (featured in the gaming router video too) https://kittenlabs.de/blinkekatze/
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2024-03-26T20:37:36 < qyx> PaulFertser: machinehum did something very similar?
2024-03-26T20:38:14 < qyx> even using those connectors abominations
2024-03-26T20:38:57 < qyx> barrel jack connectors should be banned by law
2024-03-26T20:39:33 < qyx> and life sentence if used with wrong sexual orientation
2024-03-26T20:40:00 < Steffanx> The comparison with "commercially available" UPSes is a little silly though 
2024-03-26T20:42:31 < PaulFertser> qyx: powering an SBC from that using barrel jack connectors should be OK, what's your alternative?
2024-03-26T20:46:03 < PaulFertser> "This was the first time I ever saw a dead/stuck bit NOR flash chip in my career" https://kittenlabs.de/blog/2023/11/16/reviving-a-dead-gigabyte-mj11-ec1-mainboard/
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2024-03-26T20:58:36 < qyx> PaulFertser: anything other than a male barrel jack
2024-03-26T21:00:39 < PaulFertser> qyx: you do not like voltage exposed on the centre pin?
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2024-03-26T21:13:24 < qyx> common sense says no voltage shall be exposed on any user reachable metal part
2024-03-26T21:13:37 < qyx> and I would say the code forbids that too
2024-03-26T21:13:41 < qyx> even if SELV
2024-03-26T21:14:14 < PaulFertser> 9 V batteries disagree
2024-03-26T21:20:53 < qyx> Note: In normal conditions, when the SELV voltage is less than 25 V, there is no need to provide protection against direct contact hazards. Particular requirements are indicated in Recommendations applicable to special installations and locations. 
2024-03-26T21:21:11 < qyx> ok so 12 V is apparently allowed
2024-03-26T21:21:21 < qyx> fuk common sense
2024-03-26T21:22:16  * BrainDamage puts a spanner across qyx's car battery
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2024-03-26T21:23:53 < qyx> machinehum: 18:26 < PaulFertser> The same dev is behind this nice looking and probably useful UPS https://kittenlabs.de/dc-ups/
2024-03-26T21:24:15 < qyx> BrainDamage: that's rude
2024-03-26T21:24:32 < qyx> my bosch doesn't like
2024-03-26T21:24:56 < machinehum> PaulFertser: wtf my UPS
2024-03-26T21:25:00 < qyx> although my bosch will go to scrapyard most probably, sooner or later
2024-03-26T21:25:07 < qyx> machinehum: is it yours?
2024-03-26T21:25:10 < qyx> I didn't know
2024-03-26T21:25:16 < qyx> paul just discovered it accidentally
2024-03-26T21:25:16 < machinehum> Someone ripped it off, and somehow before I built mine!
2024-03-26T21:25:24 < qyx> and I said oh hey
2024-03-26T21:25:27 < qyx> that looks familiar
2024-03-26T21:25:33 < qyx> machinehum did that too
2024-03-26T21:26:10 < BrainDamage> there's cots devices that do that, for routers, etc
2024-03-26T21:26:11 < qyx> did you release the pcb with a permissive license?
2024-03-26T21:26:19 < machinehum> That is actually shockly similar ahaha
2024-03-26T21:26:24 < BrainDamage> but they don't tend to have an ethernet iface
2024-03-26T21:26:44 < machinehum> qyx: It was GPL3
2024-03-26T21:27:10 < machinehum> https://github.com/TobleMiner/DC-UPS His is https://kittenlabs.de/dc-ups/
2024-03-26T21:27:20 < machinehum> Sorry mispaste: CERN-OHL-P-2.0 license
2024-03-26T21:27:35 < qyx> lold
2024-03-26T21:27:43 < qyx> even the front panel is the same
2024-03-26T21:28:34 < machinehum> It's ... uncanny
2024-03-26T21:28:39 < machinehum> Same holders
2024-03-26T21:28:59 < BrainDamage> if you scroll to the bottom of the page, it does link https://github.com/TobleMiner/DC-UPS
2024-03-26T21:29:03 < machinehum> I'm downloading the KiCad files now
2024-03-26T21:29:16 < machinehum> Just a link to my github lol
2024-03-26T21:29:21 < BrainDamage> exactly
2024-03-26T21:29:25 < machinehum> He just put my shit in a box
2024-03-26T21:29:34 < machinehum> BrainDamage: no lol that's not my Github
2024-03-26T21:30:18 < machinehum> Just 2 18650 cells is kinda ... meh
2024-03-26T21:30:22 < qyx> so what is your github?
2024-03-26T21:31:25 < machinehum> https://github.com/o7-machinehum/Protectli-UPS-Firmware
2024-03-26T21:31:44 < machinehum> I just rememberd it's not 100% open source, just the schematics + FW
2024-03-26T21:31:58 < machinehum> To which the firmware isn't very nice btw don't judge me
2024-03-26T21:32:10 < machinehum> Well actually go ahead judge away
2024-03-26T21:32:31 < qyx> so now I am confused
2024-03-26T21:36:04 < machinehum> Sorry what's confusing? I was joking when I said he stole my design. It's just a very similar thing.
2024-03-26T21:36:36 < machinehum> He used PMIC's instead of my l33t MCU only design with three MCU's that the universe hated
2024-03-26T21:36:45 < machinehum> Thinking about putting in another MCU
2024-03-26T21:38:07 < qyx> oh sorry I fail at joking and sarcasm
2024-03-26T21:41:47 < machinehum> Honestly I think they did a survey and Canadians are the most sarcastic in the world or something
2024-03-26T21:42:25 < machinehum> I'm honestly way to sarcastic for Europe, confusing people quite often, had to tone it down
2024-03-26T21:51:52 < Steffanx> Some just fail at sarcasm :P
2024-03-26T21:52:22 < Steffanx> Also swissers don't count as the average european 
2024-03-26T21:55:40 < machinehum> I'm not sure if jbo will be offended by that or not
2024-03-26T21:56:07 < Steffanx> jbo already knows this
2024-03-26T21:56:40 < machinehum> lol
2024-03-26T22:10:35 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: that said car battery has a plastic or rubber cap both when stored and when installed in a car.
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2024-03-26T22:24:49 < fenugrec> IRC is a fairly lossy channel for sarcasm
2024-03-26T22:33:28 < Steffanx> Such sarcasm fenugrec 
2024-03-26T22:37:12 < fenugrec> Thanks steff
2024-03-26T22:41:34 < fenugrec> btw I wonder if karlp is accidentally running for president - https://i.imgur.com/UMIdmkd.png
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2024-03-26T22:42:42 < Steffanx> lol
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--- Day changed ke maalis 27 2024
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2024-03-27T01:04:22 < qyx> jpa- doing shopping in winter https://youtu.be/wQKzRVA6i58?si=c7LkaldbCGtHVnTY 
2024-03-27T01:05:08 < qyx> at 26:40
2024-03-27T01:10:00 < Steffanx> Finnishers get outside ( in the winter )?
2024-03-27T01:11:11 < Steffanx> Go*
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2024-03-27T01:31:07 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfLY6nHjmjk
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2024-03-27T01:43:53 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI song steff
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2024-03-27T08:15:59 < jpa-> qyx: yes, totally
2024-03-27T08:16:06 < jpa-> though i have less fancy bike
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2024-03-27T10:27:54 < machinehum> https://github.com/YuzukiHD/Avaota-A1/tree/main
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2024-03-27T12:21:02 < karlp> fenugrec: haha, no, but yeah, it's a bit of a clown show 
2024-03-27T12:21:26 < karlp> they did go and redesign the pages for that though :)
2024-03-27T12:26:58 < karlp> the kittenlabs one even says at the top "by tSys" which is a link to tobleminor,
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2024-03-27T14:49:43 < Laurenceb_> wtf pic idiocy
2024-03-27T14:50:15 < Laurenceb_> >I2C wont run >100khz without "fast mode" enable bit, but fast mode bit enables nasty hardware timeouts
2024-03-27T14:52:35 < Laurenceb_> even shittier than avr
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2024-03-27T15:16:05 < Laurenceb_> codez  https://www.olimex.com/forum/index.php?topic=9437.0
2024-03-27T15:17:32 < ventYl> what is nasty hardware timeout?
2024-03-27T15:19:18 < Laurenceb_> i2c peripheral will stop receiving data on TAA timeout... I think
2024-03-27T15:19:52 < Laurenceb_> nope - THD:DAT
2024-03-27T15:20:01 < Laurenceb_> hmm its hard to see how it will error tho
2024-03-27T15:24:28 < ventYl> well, if it stops receiving, the probably your I2C is in weeds by then
2024-03-27T15:34:59 < zyp> karlp, approaching MVP now, have some pluggable transports: https://godbolt.org/z/48bzKGeGW
2024-03-27T15:35:52 < zyp> this is turning out *so fucking nice*, if I'm allowed to say so myself :p
2024-03-27T15:38:37 < ventYl> why function arguments are template argument on line 11? to achieve compile-time evaluation?
2024-03-27T15:39:48 < zyp> yes, the string isn't stored in flash at all, it's tucked into the _ZN5smolt3tag… symbols if you look in the compiler output
2024-03-27T15:41:25 < zyp> I have the beginnings of a readme here: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cVAX0
2024-03-27T15:41:26 < ventYl> I kinda don't follow the disassembly, yet I didn't try much as this is completely unknown priece of code to me
2024-03-27T15:41:45 < ventYl> ah, there's the header attached
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2024-03-27T15:52:19 < ventYl> qyx will probably be highly interested into it
2024-03-27T15:53:31 < qyx> I would be but I need both parts in the firmware
2024-03-27T15:54:26 < qyx> my goals are a bit different, I do not aim for high speed but for the best compression
2024-03-27T15:55:04 < qyx> to put as many logs into the ring buffer as possible, without the formattig delay
2024-03-27T15:56:09 < qyx> and process, filter, display,save them asynchronously when there are some redundant resources
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2024-03-27T17:00:30 < karlp> fucking, 3k of uart rx ringbuygger someone through at this, but it's overrunning the hw receive, not the ringbuffer.
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2024-03-27T17:01:54 < qyx> overrun flag gotcha?
2024-03-27T17:05:07 < karlp> not sure.  it was doing it intermittentyly at 115200, which IMO, is slow enough to _never_ fucking fail to read chars.
2024-03-27T17:05:15 < karlp> I've turned it up to 921600 to happen more often.
2024-03-27T17:05:41 < karlp> but it's a massive soup of vendor code and freertos events and both the vendor driver ring buffer, and then anotehr application buffer.
2024-03-27T17:05:55 < karlp> so I'm not sure if it's "not holding it right" or "it's just busted"
2024-03-27T17:06:41 < karlp> predecessors all seem to have just ignored this, it mostly works. but I want to do more, and also start doing firwmware updates, so I actually want a reliable link...
2024-03-27T17:16:24 < jpa-> maybe you have stm32duino and its split buffers in middle somewhere ;)
2024-03-27T17:18:09 < karlp> heh.
2024-03-27T17:18:22 < karlp> no, this is rx interrupt into ring buffer.
2024-03-27T17:21:21 < qyx> is it stm32?
2024-03-27T17:23:09 < jpa-> i bet kinetis
2024-03-27T17:26:23 < karlp> I hate it too, I want to do more tracing of irqs or things, but MTB is teh suck, and no ITM
2024-03-27T17:27:09 < PaulFertser> You can print it out on the same UART Tx at 921600 baud :)
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2024-03-27T17:58:18 < karlp> I think after easter break I just have to bring in the LA and some greenwire.
2024-03-27T18:09:17 < zyp> karlp, I had to do the other side of the ringbuffer transport as well: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/niUba
2024-03-27T18:10:40 < karlp> this is looking pretty cute.
2024-03-27T18:12:11 < zyp> yeah, this will be a lot more versatile than rblog ever was
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2024-03-27T18:21:01 < karlp> ok. turning off other tasks and irqs and now it no longer ovverruns.
2024-03-27T18:21:53 < karlp> huh. lameeee
2024-03-27T18:22:00 < karlp> ok, htat's maybe workable though.
2024-03-27T18:22:08 < karlp> go over all the tasks and irqs and figure it out.
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2024-03-27T18:27:41 < PaulFertser> Big fat critical section in one of the tasks would be my guess. But FreeRTOS critical sections can be pre-empted by interrupts with higher than the freertos kernel priority, and I guess you checked that already.
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2024-03-27T18:43:25 < karlp> yeah, I just started counting irqs, and it's only ike hundreds per sec, so not even close.
2024-03-27T18:43:30 < karlp> gotta be criticals somewhere.
2024-03-27T18:44:03 < karlp> but I already found another irq tht was running "higher" than freertos split yet somehow working.
2024-03-27T18:44:27 < karlp> somethign to review next week, go over all the irqs and priorities
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2024-03-27T20:30:40 < srk> Secure TJA115x CAN Transceiver :D
2024-03-27T20:30:53 < srk> seamless and very cost-effective solution for securing classical CAN and CAN FD communication without cryptography
2024-03-27T20:30:56 < srk> ^^
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2024-03-27T20:36:03 < srk> https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/
2024-03-27T20:55:43 < PaulFertser> "a PIC18F chip that contains CAN hardware" so PICs are still relevant eh?
2024-03-27T21:03:02 < Steffanx> Don't tell laurence
2024-03-27T21:05:13 < PaulFertser> This article is quite lengthy unfortunately, mentioning many obvious things or something that's trivial to look up on Wikipedia if needed, however this part is a bit unexpected "because multiple CAN receivers are sending a logic 0 at the same time, and when they all do this together, the combined transceivers are able to overpower the dominant-override circuit and drive a dominant state on to the
2024-03-27T21:05:19 < PaulFertser> bus"
2024-03-27T21:05:59 < PaulFertser> srk: thanks for sharing!
2024-03-27T21:06:08 < srk> CAN FD even
2024-03-27T21:07:15 < qyx> PaulFertser: what
2024-03-27T21:08:33 < PaulFertser> TLDR: modern cars can be stolen by spoofing messages from a controller that verifies the key and a bit of creative bus overdriving, the wires can be accessed with minimal damage externally from the headlight area, ready made devices are sold for just $5k.
2024-03-27T21:10:17 < qyx> now I see what is a "can override" transceiver
2024-03-27T21:10:37 < zyp> «just»
2024-03-27T21:12:30 < qyx> also, can transceiver able to drive recessive == rs485 transceiver?
2024-03-27T21:12:35 < PaulFertser> One care stolen is probably about that.
2024-03-27T21:12:49 < PaulFertser> qyx: apparently they just have additional transistor there and drive with PIC GPIO.
2024-03-27T21:13:14 < qyx> hm true rs485 transceiver would not be able to do izt
2024-03-27T21:13:18 < PaulFertser> Or something like that, nothing really fancy.
2024-03-27T21:17:46 < PaulFertser> srk: did I get it right?
2024-03-27T21:18:32 < srk> PaulFertser: yup. probably right about the transistor as well
2024-03-27T21:19:26 < srk> poor manufacturers wondering how to do crypto key management for embededded buses
2024-03-27T21:19:45 < PaulFertser> I don't pity them
2024-03-27T21:20:28 < PaulFertser> "Ian has tried to get in touch with Toyota to discuss the CAN Injection attack, and to offer help, but hasn’t had much success."
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2024-03-27T23:18:35 < nomorekaki> srk: new expensive cars made so cheap - no separate module to cut fuel
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--- Day changed to maalis 28 2024
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2024-03-28T00:24:18 < ventYl> srk: there are automotive-certified solutions for this out there. they are just not using them
2024-03-28T00:24:39 < ventYl> PaulFertser: that attack is kind-of specific to Toyota, but it can be reproduced with others as well
2024-03-28T00:25:07 < ventYl> moreover, it turns out, that by glitching, one can probably be able to read out protected flash area for hardware security module
2024-03-28T00:25:18 < ventYl> if that is possible then the whole cybersecurity concept of cars is built on water
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2024-03-28T01:32:29 < zyp> https://github.com/zyp/smolt
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2024-03-28T02:17:32 < nomorekaki> ventYl: what solutions?
2024-03-28T02:28:51 < nomorekaki> zyp: seems like you have solved a problem
2024-03-28T02:29:03 < nomorekaki> very smart idea
2024-03-28T02:29:06 < zyp> I've wanted this tool for years
2024-03-28T02:29:25 < zyp> finally sat down and actually made it
2024-03-28T02:30:03 < nomorekaki> can you do formating while idle and stuff?
2024-03-28T02:30:10 < nomorekaki> just make a pipe for it?
2024-03-28T02:30:38 < zyp> you mean have a low priority task on the target do the formatting?
2024-03-28T02:30:50 < nomorekaki> yes
2024-03-28T02:31:08 < zyp> no, that's out of scope for this project, and incompatible with some of the design decisions
2024-03-28T02:31:31 < nomorekaki> via buffer of some sort?
2024-03-28T02:31:39 < zyp> read the readme on how I don't keep format strings in flash at all, there's simply not enough info in the firmware for it to do it
2024-03-28T02:31:48 < nomorekaki> ah
2024-03-28T02:32:03 < nomorekaki> it's intended for client side formating
2024-03-28T02:32:13 < zyp> yes, exclusively
2024-03-28T02:33:45 < nomorekaki> good job
2024-03-28T02:33:53 < nomorekaki> 5/5 stuff
2024-03-28T02:35:10 < nomorekaki> I cannot help than to think how you have time to do impressive stuff all the time
2024-03-28T02:35:59 < zyp> I don't, although I feel the same way towards other people
2024-03-28T02:36:26 < nomorekaki> there is someone more pro than zyp and that blows my mind
2024-03-28T02:36:57 < nomorekaki> or someone more productive
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2024-03-28T02:44:36 < nomorekaki> or just perceived as such because of different skillset
2024-03-28T02:46:26 < zyp> well, unlike me, jpa- makes stuff people are actually using :p
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2024-03-28T05:10:46 < ColdKeyboard> zyp Do you have suggestion for RS485-only comm that would allow slave devices to raise and interrupt?
2024-03-28T05:11:19 < ColdKeyboard> I guess slave could just post it's address on the bus and then master will poll it to read what's going on
2024-03-28T05:11:46 < ColdKeyboard> I'm sure there can be a collision in which case master can visit every device to find which one asked for interrupt
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2024-03-28T05:18:23 < zyp> I don't have experience with anything concrete, and I don't have any clever idea for in-band interrupts either
2024-03-28T05:20:42 < zyp> or, actually, if you have a designated master, and the rest of the protocol is «speak only after you've been spoken to», you could make multicast polls with timeslotted responses
2024-03-28T05:22:13 < zyp> e.g. if master is node 0 and you've got nodes 1-5, master could send a poll and node 1 is allowed to reply within 0-1ms, node 2 is allowed to reply within 1-2ms, and so on
2024-03-28T05:22:53 < zyp> not slots for sending the whole message, just slots for when they're allowed to start sending
2024-03-28T05:23:34 < zyp> once a node's slot starts, if they haven't seen another node start sending yet, they should if they have anything
2024-03-28T05:24:39 < zyp> adjust slot times according to baudrates, signal integrity and latency accuracy on the nodes
2024-03-28T05:25:59 < zyp> AIUI, the CPLA layer 10base-t1s is using a timeslot system somewhat like this
2024-03-28T05:26:16 < zyp> CPLA layer *in* 10base-t1s
2024-03-28T05:56:19 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks, I'll give it a try
2024-03-28T05:56:59 < ColdKeyboard> I love when you "don't have experience with anything concrete" and then suggest like 10 different things which are all awesome :)
2024-03-28T05:57:15 < ColdKeyboard> But yes, I should also look up in-band interrupt/signaling
2024-03-28T05:57:42 < ColdKeyboard> There is only one master device and all others are slave. They are not supposed to put messages on the bus unless master device requests it
2024-03-28T05:58:12 < ColdKeyboard> So the only thing missing is how can they cause an "interrupt" on the bus because something "urgent" has happened and needs to be serviced right away
2024-03-28T05:58:14 < zyp> sounds like timeslots should work well then, since there's a master to coordinate them
2024-03-28T05:59:54 < zyp> instead of having the master poll period match the required interrupt latency, you could instead have repeating timeslots
2024-03-28T06:00:05 < zyp> which would include giving the master one
2024-03-28T06:02:03 < zyp> i.e. each node gets a timeslot at a given duration and a given interval, and then they are all timed to an «idle start sync» message sent by the master
2024-03-28T06:02:44 < zyp> in that mode, nodes are allowed to start sending unsolicited within their timeslot
2024-03-28T06:02:52 < zyp> once bus activity is detected, it drops out of that mode
2024-03-28T06:03:42 < zyp> again, timings depend on requirements and available accuracy, and now you'll also be accumulating error on each node between syncs
2024-03-28T06:05:10 < zyp> but done correctly I think that could be a workable way to achieve collision-free unsolicited communication with a reasonable cpu/latency tradeoff
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2024-03-28T08:09:06 < jpa-> zyp: wow, a readme; i'm going to use that :)
2024-03-28T08:10:35 < jpa-> though it feels like it definitely needs a beautiful macro to hide those ugly templates
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2024-03-28T09:17:09 < ventYl> zyp: interesting approach
2024-03-28T09:18:11 < ventYl> zyp: couldn't dummies be placed into section, which gets mapped somewhere into address space, where there is nothing? so you save even those 4 bytes per tag?
2024-03-28T09:19:25 < ventYl> nomorekaki: I originally understood that srk is talking about poor crypto implementation
2024-03-28T09:19:36 < ventYl> nomorekaki: that has proper solutions
2024-03-28T09:20:05 < ventYl> key management is another story, but there are manufacturers which did this properly
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2024-03-28T14:02:39 < zyp> ventYl, yep, I've thought about that
2024-03-28T14:04:15 < zyp> I figure with -ffunction-sections, every symbol would be emitted in its own .text subsection, so in the linker script you could make a new section that gobbles them up without needing an explicit section attribute in the source
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2024-03-28T14:05:06 < zyp> but I expect you still need the section emitted in the .elf for it to actually get addresses, and then just stripped out after linking
2024-03-28T14:05:40 < zyp> which could cause some hassle if you e.g. try flashing the elf directly to the target in gdb
2024-03-28T14:06:20 < jpa-> maybe mark it NOLOAD
2024-03-28T14:06:33 < zyp> yeah, could work
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2024-03-28T14:09:38 < zyp> either way that's building/linking stuff, which is the user's responsibility, so my side would just be about documenting how it can be done
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2024-03-28T14:20:56 < nuxil> zyp, in your smolt. why do you not support up 64bit (long long). and why no support of both unsigned and signed(<i) types. i see your struct.pack is only doing float and unsigned int (I). 
2024-03-28T14:21:04 < nuxil> or am i misreading the py code.
2024-03-28T14:21:52 < zyp> read the readme :)
2024-03-28T14:22:12 < nuxil> oh. todo :PO
2024-03-28T14:22:29 < nuxil> never mind then :)
2024-03-28T14:24:11 < zyp> so for integers, this coerces the value to unsigned regardless of whether the transport delivers it as signed or unsigned: https://github.com/zyp/smolt/blob/main/smolt/meta.py#L22
2024-03-28T14:24:29 < zyp> and line 26 converts it back to signed if it's a signed type
2024-03-28T14:25:59 < zyp> making that code nicer is very high up on the TODO list, right now it's just what works for a MVP
2024-03-28T14:27:26 < zyp> the reason I don't support larger types than 32b is because the element size (single ITM transfer or one entry in the ringbuffer) is 32b, and I haven't written code to fragment and reassemble larger arguments across multiple elements yet
2024-03-28T14:27:40 < zyp> so at the moment, one argument = one element
2024-03-28T14:29:02 < nuxil> ic.. wel, its a start and you got something working. improvements can come later :)
2024-03-28T14:33:05 < zyp> yeah, I might get it added later today :)
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2024-03-28T15:05:44 < ventYl> zyp: IIRC, there is something like nocopy attribute for section. Objects in this sections are allocated, get addresses, may be copied into ELF, but won't be copied into FLASH.
2024-03-28T15:06:08 < ventYl> on the other hand, it is probably sufficient to give the section some weird name and place it into linker file.
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2024-03-28T15:50:43 < jbo> moin moin
2024-03-28T15:50:54 < jbo> is everybody nice & frustrated today?
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2024-03-28T15:59:11 < jpa-> frustrated sure, but i'm not gonna be nice about it
2024-03-28T16:01:50 < jbo> time for a kissy then
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2024-03-28T16:05:19 < jpa-> oh well, i got almost to the 50 hours billable target this month, i guess i'll just pat myself on the back and tell "good coder"
2024-03-28T16:19:23 -!- System_Error [~SystemErr@user/systemerror] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2024-03-28T16:19:28 < ventYl> I am 20 below the threshold
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2024-03-28T16:27:14 < Steffanx> You're hourly rate is like 500  Finnish euro, right jpa- ?
2024-03-28T16:44:47 < qyx> I am at 20 total
2024-03-28T16:46:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: nah, nowadays i have 80 EUR for everyone, except jbo's special services
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2024-03-28T17:11:30 < jbo> jbo doesn't do money anymore these days
2024-03-28T17:12:28 < zyp> heh, I was wondering whether renode has ITM support, turns out apparently karlp made some: https://gist.github.com/karlp/6fc3edfc5b8087259c6b767f6d4d4cbb
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2024-03-28T18:31:49 < karlp> yeah baby.
2024-03-28T18:32:08 < karlp> those are all the periphs i had to implement ot get to run one of our old products
2024-03-28T18:32:14 < karlp> given that it was all "just load your elf up!"
2024-03-28T18:32:36 < karlp> how did you even find that though?
2024-03-28T18:33:00 < karlp> only four years ago? huh, that sot of sounds like I dug it up again.
2024-03-28T18:33:10 < karlp> it's been way more than four years I think...
2024-03-28T18:33:11 < zyp> first hit: https://www.google.com/search?q=renode+itm
2024-03-28T18:33:56 < karlp> hrm, bug linked is frrom sept 2020, guess that was when I was working on it.
2024-03-28T18:34:00 < karlp> feels like longer ago
2024-03-28T18:34:29 < zyp> I'm kinda tempted to make an implementation that opens a TCP socket and uses it to stream out messages
2024-03-28T18:34:31 < karlp> bug's still open too.
2024-03-28T18:34:57 < karlp> yeah, I was really trying to use renode for rs485 mocking at the time, i just needed ITM writes to not hang because the "fifo was full" :9
2024-03-28T18:35:16 < zyp> your code doesn't check TER?
2024-03-28T18:35:24 < karlp> lol, why?
2024-03-28T18:36:00 < zyp> I mean in the firmware: https://github.com/zyp/smolt/blob/main/smolt/include/smolt.h#L87
2024-03-28T18:36:26 < karlp> can't remmeber.
2024-03-28T18:36:47 < karlp> my code library has both blocking and non-blocking: https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/blob/master/shared/trace.c#L7-L16 though both seem to check TER.
2024-03-28T18:36:55 < karlp> maybe TER was implemented somewhere already?
2024-03-28T18:37:04 < zyp> smolt will check TER and just drop logs if the channels aren't enabled
2024-03-28T18:37:16 < karlp> oh, line 12 of "my-l1-based-platform.repl"
2024-03-28T18:37:18 < zyp> and do blocking writes if they are
2024-03-28T18:37:30 < karlp> I just hardcoded TER, but needed the renode.itm.py for the read somehow.
2024-03-28T18:37:33  * karlp shrugs
2024-03-28T18:37:39 < karlp> there may have been other ways of doing it.
2024-03-28T18:37:56 < karlp> maybe I planned on having it do something with the values written?
2024-03-28T18:38:59 < karlp> I don't remember what the svd bug was either.
2024-03-28T18:39:55 < karlp> oh right, they fucked up their mirrors: https://github.com/renode/renode/issues/126
2024-03-28T18:40:32 < zyp> I'm currently looking into writing python unit tests to test C++
2024-03-28T18:40:54 < karlp> testing sounds good.
2024-03-28T18:41:32 < karlp> newjob has a lua api, with scripts written by all sorts of people, and tehyv'e apparently both a) not actually published an API doc, nor b) made any attempt at checking api changes
2024-03-28T18:41:51 < karlp> so... sometimes people are setting something up on site somewhere and discover the "application" doesn't work.
2024-03-28T18:41:54 < zyp> yeah, the idea is to make a bunch of small test cases that issues a logging call with various argument types and checking that they all compile without warnings and errors
2024-03-28T18:43:20 < zyp> and maybe also checking that the generated code isn't larger than it reasonably should be
2024-03-28T18:48:20 < zyp> currently wondering if there's a convenient way to have a python unittest testsuite run multiple times with different variables (e.g. compilers and compiler flags), or if I have to provide that through like environment variables and script it externally
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2024-03-28T18:55:45 < karlp> I just made my own main call unittest.main repeatedly? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/3eff201a4bb3759a9c967a6f5e3fd0aad46dc5af/tests/gadget-zero/test_gadget0.py#L505-L508
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2024-03-28T18:57:55 < zyp> hmm, with the state set as a module level variable
2024-03-28T18:58:06 < zyp> not sure I like that
2024-03-28T18:58:10  * karlp shrugs
2024-03-28T18:58:45 < zyp> I mean, works when you run it like a module like that, but I don't think it'd work with test discovery
2024-03-28T18:59:19 < karlp> hrm, pretty sure you can make it work both ways, but that was sufficient for what I needed...
2024-03-28T19:00:06 < zyp> yeah, I'm gonna look a bit more at what my options are
2024-03-28T19:00:22 < zyp> maybe this is one of the things pytest could do better than unittest, haven't looked at that yet
2024-03-28T19:10:15 < PaulFertser> karlp: have you managed to find the overflow bug today?
2024-03-28T19:16:53 < karlp> I'm in oddly religious nordics. today, tomrorow and monday are all holidays :)
2024-03-28T19:19:25 < PaulFertser> What do you celebrate?
2024-03-28T19:19:59 < zyp> time off from work :)
2024-03-28T19:24:22 < zyp> ah, yep, pytest solves this: https://docs.pytest.org/en/8.0.x/how-to/fixtures.html#fixture-parametrize
2024-03-28T19:37:05 < jpa-> karlp: what, today? here we only have friday and monday
2024-03-28T19:42:24 < zyp> we've got today as well
2024-03-28T19:42:30 < zyp> and I'm lazy, so I took yesterday off too
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2024-03-28T19:52:25 < Steffanx> Here only Monday 😱
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2024-03-28T20:52:38 < qyx> friday and monday here
2024-03-28T20:52:54 < qyx> karlp: icelanders are christians much?
2024-03-28T20:53:04 < qyx> no vikings?
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2024-03-28T21:54:00 < karlp> no. not at all.
2024-03-28T21:54:02 < karlp> exceptalso yes.
2024-03-28T21:54:53 < karlp> we have a national religion we give lots of money too, and every 13-14yr gets confirmed, but it's just for the party and the presents.
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2024-03-28T22:39:52 < qyx> after 6 days off, I feel innovative today
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2024-03-28T23:31:12 < Steffanx> What's being innovated?
2024-03-28T23:38:02 < qyx> nothing, too tired
2024-03-28T23:50:46 < zyp> okay, this works well: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HXsBr
2024-03-28T23:52:13 < zyp> turns out the 64-bit ones aren't failing to compile though:
2024-03-28T23:52:15 < zyp> ============================= test session starts ==============================
2024-03-28T23:52:15 < zyp> platform darwin -- Python 3.12.0, pytest-7.4.3, pluggy-1.3.0
2024-03-28T23:52:15 < zyp> rootdir: /Users/zyp/Documents/smolt
2024-03-28T23:52:15 < zyp> plugins: xdist-3.5.0
2024-03-28T23:52:17 < zyp> collected 11 items                                                             
2024-03-28T23:52:20 < zyp> tests/cpp/test_foo.py .......XXXx                                        [100%]
2024-03-28T23:52:22 < zyp> =================== 7 passed, 1 xfailed, 3 xpassed in 1.09s ====================
--- Day changed pe maalis 29 2024
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2024-03-29T01:30:31 < zyp> oh, haha, all 64-bit types are implicitly converted to float, the float handler just gobbles up both double, int64 and uint64
2024-03-29T01:30:51 < zyp> and -Wconversion is neither included in -Wall nor -Wextra
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2024-03-29T04:02:02 < zyp> nuxil, you wanted 64b support? https://github.com/zyp/smolt/commit/00de9d92019e8061dc793321b69a207758daad02 :)
2024-03-29T04:02:52 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/yYYtf
2024-03-29T04:20:53 < nuxil> so you added it, nice :)
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2024-03-29T04:32:44 < nuxil> zyp, i have two complaints tho. well not complaint. but rather coding prefrences. decorators, i hate them. imo they make the code harder to understand. but as i said thats coding prefrence.
2024-03-29T04:32:55 < nuxil> 2nd its C++ and not C. 
2024-03-29T04:33:25 < nuxil> just kidding with the 2nd one. but.. 
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2024-03-29T04:36:47 < nuxil> logger.log<foobar> i dont like this. just: log<foobar>  ,would be better imo. but i come from C background so i dont really like anything with templates and namespaces etc :P 
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2024-03-29T04:37:17 < nuxil> logger.log is like. lard ontop of butter. or how you would say it :P
2024-03-29T04:43:24 < nuxil> anywho. ignore my critisisme, im tierd and need sleep. im just rambeling mostly nonsense anyway :p
2024-03-29T04:48:00 < zyp> you can have more than one logger
2024-03-29T04:48:13 < zyp> hence why it's a class
2024-03-29T04:49:48 < zyp> I added basic span support as well: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/5T1Wf
2024-03-29T04:50:52 < nuxil> nice :)
2024-03-29T05:02:56 < qyx> decorators are ok
2024-03-29T05:03:03 < qyx> but I hate superstrup
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2024-03-29T12:48:28 < Steffanx> The what.. qyx?
2024-03-29T13:06:07 < karlp> zyp: if you're starting this, can "we" have it so that you can do #include <smolt.h> or #include <smolt/whatever> please?
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2024-03-29T13:14:58 < qyx> Steffanx: the c++ innovator, I can't express my opinions publicly
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2024-03-29T13:15:37 < machinehum> PaulFertser: We got a problem
2024-03-29T13:15:41 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/raw/q4zHAfVf
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2024-03-29T13:16:40 < machinehum> tbh I don't actually care that much about the solution beyond curiosity because my jlink works fine
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2024-03-29T13:53:46 < PaulFertser> machinehum: jlink with same OpenOCD config?
2024-03-29T13:55:57 < PaulFertser> machinehum: so in the log it connected nicely, flashed, verified everything fine, then used hardware reset to let the target run and then failed to talk to it, probably you firmware disables SWD or sleep early on startup?
2024-03-29T13:56:42 < PaulFertser> machinehum: so far nothing looks problematic at all, what the problem is?
2024-03-29T14:24:55 < karlp> PaulFertser: reset config includes connect_assert_srst, so it should have reconnected ok though?
2024-03-29T14:27:30 < PaulFertser> karlp: on connection yes, but not for "reset run", that's the point of "run" to let it run.
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2024-03-29T17:06:55 < zyp> karlp, what do you have in mind?
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2024-03-29T17:19:36 < zyp> what I have planned is for the cli to be able to both give you an include path directly, pkg-config style like now, or stick the file into a desired location, and in the latter case you could put it in whatever subdir structure you'd like
2024-03-29T17:24:59 < zyp> ideally I'd like to keep everything in a single header, but on the other hand I have thought it could be convenient to have addon headers, e.g. if a transport makes use of platform specific intrinsics or inline asm
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--- Day changed la maalis 30 2024
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2024-03-30T02:18:50 < fenugrec> PSA : please, anyone running SSH on anything, https://openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4
2024-03-30T02:19:23 < fenugrec> (xz /libarchive  upstream compromised, backdoored)
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2024-03-30T02:36:40 < ventYl> yeah, slackware does not apply shitpatches, so I am safe
2024-03-30T02:44:38 < fenugrec> ventYl , I think it's early to say for sure what is 'safe', given that xz is a dependency for a large number of packages, and some elements of the backdoor have been in there for a long tiem
2024-03-30T02:45:34 < ventYl> fenugrec: at least, slackware's openssh is not linked against xz
2024-03-30T02:46:00 < ventYl> as openssh is not linked to it by default, just vast majority of distros contains some off-tree patch which causes that
2024-03-30T02:49:49 < fenugrec> right - agreed, the sshd vector appears to be valid only on some distros
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2024-03-30T02:52:28 < ventYl> to me the question is how to maintain the repository it won't be that easy to hide a backdoor in it
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2024-03-30T03:12:29 < karlp> we all should have stuck with bz2. the push to xz was obviously a long con.....
2024-03-30T03:12:52 < zyp> compression is overrated anyway
2024-03-30T03:13:10 < karlp> whenever I create an .xz I alwayus think something is wrong.
2024-03-30T03:13:21 < karlp> it's sooooo much slower ro get those few extra percent.
2024-03-30T03:14:25 < zyp> diminishing returns, as with anything else
2024-03-30T03:15:03 < zyp> karlp, so anyway, about the include, can you elaborate?
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2024-03-30T05:09:54 < zyp> so GCC can apparently produce warnings that's not warnings
2024-03-30T05:11:09 < zyp> I set up the unit tests to assume that anything in stderr with a return code of 0 means it's warnings, and now I hit this:
2024-03-30T05:11:12 < zyp> tests/cpp/test_foo.py:73: CompilerWarning
2024-03-30T05:11:12 < zyp> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Captured stderr call --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2024-03-30T05:11:16 < zyp> /private/var/folders/5d/wfyfylpx3k132gcnkq0lj07w0000gn/T/pytest-of-zyp/pytest-117/build15/test.cpp: In function 'void test(std::span<long long unsigned int, 16>)':
2024-03-30T05:11:19 < zyp> /private/var/folders/5d/wfyfylpx3k132gcnkq0lj07w0000gn/T/pytest-of-zyp/pytest-117/build15/test.cpp:6:14: note: parameter passing for argument of type 'std::span<long long unsigned int, 16>' changed in GCC 7.1
2024-03-30T05:11:23 < zyp>     6 |         void test(std::span<uint64_t, 16> value) {
2024-03-30T05:11:26 < zyp>       |              ^~~~
2024-03-30T05:11:54 < zyp> first time I see a «note:» alone and not as a hint to what's causing a warning or error
2024-03-30T05:13:27 < zyp> also a note about an ABI change ages ago isn't very interesting, this code needs a way newer compiler anyway :p
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2024-03-30T08:45:57 < jpa-> karlp: looks like it was someone pressuring xz original maintainer to allow second maintainer to take over, who was the attacker   https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39868673
2024-03-30T09:29:25 < qyx> 01:13 < karlp> whenever I create an .xz I alwayus think something is wrong.
2024-03-30T09:29:28 < qyx> lold irl
2024-03-30T09:29:29 < qyx> yeah
2024-03-30T09:34:56 < jpa-> very nice of github just randomly ban all users related to xz *and* hide the repository to make it difficult to check what has been done
2024-03-30T10:12:00 < qyx> may be requested by some agencies, idk
2024-03-30T10:14:41 < sauce> more like pr / damage control
2024-03-30T10:14:50 < sauce> github is a respectable entity that would never host malicious actors or code
2024-03-30T10:15:04 < sauce> see? the 404 is proof
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2024-03-30T10:59:55 < qyx> cloned by many anyway
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2024-03-30T12:13:47 < ventYl> github takes down repositories containing PoC exploits on regular basis, maybe they used similar policy
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2024-03-30T14:18:38 < stgl> I'm trying to add USB device capabilities to my project using the ST USBD middleware. UART output works fine until I plug in the USB... USB works fine then but UART remains broken even after disconnecting USB again
2024-03-30T14:18:54 < stgl> Probably some interrupt conflicts, maybe?
2024-03-30T14:20:00 < jpa-> check the UART registers in debugger
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2024-03-30T14:35:16 < stgl> mhh if I set a watchpoint at the UART transmit register and single step through all characters it seems to work fine
2024-03-30T14:36:51 < stgl> I think I'll check the data on the wire with a logic analyzer
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2024-03-30T16:15:33 < fenugrec_web> well nice. Can't ssh anymore to my IRCbox... worked yesterday
2024-03-30T16:17:32 < qyx> I bet it is xz compressed
2024-03-30T16:18:27 < fenugrec_web> shouldn't
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2024-03-30T19:04:50 < qyx> preanalysis of the xz exploit https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4
2024-03-30T19:05:19 < jpa-> i liked this analysis more  https://boehs.org/node/everything-i-know-about-the-xz-backdoor
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2024-03-30T19:15:19 < qyx> the openwall one describes how the exploit works
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2024-03-30T22:47:28 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FGJjAYk_WUAAqHvP.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2024-03-30T22:47:37 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FGJhvPYhWwAA3LhZ.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2024-03-30T22:48:25 < Steffanx> And some analysis of the first stages (extracting the binary data and stuff) : https://gynvael.coldwind.pl/?lang=en&id=782
2024-03-30T22:48:54 < Steffanx> Is that first one a pic of how they persuaded Jia Tan, Laurenceb_ ?
2024-03-30T22:49:45 < specing> wtf, now nitter is verifying my browser ?!
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--- Day changed su maalis 31 2024
2024-03-31T00:04:30 < ventYl> Steffanx: that's quite scary
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2024-03-31T00:38:46 < zyp> hrm, I looked into using pyrenode3 to run unit tests, but that looks a bit too annoying to get going, at least on macos
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2024-03-31T04:07:34 < csrf> this channel alive?
2024-03-31T04:08:22 < zyp> sure
2024-03-31T04:21:56 < csrf> I'm new to STM32 dev. I have an existing code base that uses the HAL, and I need to setup EXTI external interrupt for a GPIO pin. The stm32 cube ide thing is a mess. where can I get info on how to do it manually in code without using the IDE? 
2024-03-31T04:23:45 < zyp> the reference manual for the chip documents all the registers, but I guess what you want is a reference for the HAL API
2024-03-31T04:24:03 < zyp> I don't use HAL myself, so I'm not sure where that's documented
2024-03-31T04:25:02 < zyp> here's the HAL manual for stm32f4: https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/um1725-description-of-stm32f4-hal-and-lowlayer-drivers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2024-03-31T04:25:12 < zyp> you want the equivalent document for your chip
2024-03-31T04:26:56 < csrf> ok i'll check that doc for the F103 which is what I'm working with
2024-03-31T04:27:14 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/um1850-description-of-stm32f1-hal-and-lowlayer-drivers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2024-03-31T04:27:27 < csrf> is there a better/lighter way to do it than with the hal?
2024-03-31T04:27:40 < csrf> I'm coming from arduino/avr land
2024-03-31T04:28:32 < zyp> well, ST's own LL API is supposed to be lighter than HAL, and then there's a bunch of third party libraries
2024-03-31T04:31:43 < zyp> libopencm3 is somewhat popular, and then there's some that mimics the arduino APIs, etc…
2024-03-31T04:32:23 < zyp> I wrote my own, but you probably don't want to use mine, and I can't recommend any specific ones of the others
2024-03-31T04:34:15 < csrf> cool, thanks
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2024-03-31T05:16:00 < zyp> hmm, I made it possible to build code with smolt on the host: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cobvl
2024-03-31T05:17:37 < zyp> just a matter of truncating the tag id to 32 bit, since it's generated from an address
2024-03-31T05:18:06 < zyp> and they should all be in the same area anyway, so the upper bits are likely to be identical for all tags
2024-03-31T05:19:07 < zyp> that leaves two problems
2024-03-31T05:19:59 < zyp> one is that because of ASLR the tag ID differs from execution to execution
2024-03-31T05:20:46 < zyp> and the other is that I'm on macos, so I get a Mach-O, not an ELF, which my tag extraction tools don't work with
2024-03-31T05:25:32 < zyp> but that's okay, I figure the only test cases I need to run are the ones for the serializers, and they can just check that the serialized values are sane
2024-03-31T05:25:53 < zyp> and then I can have cross compiled test cases that checks that the generated tags are sane
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2024-03-31T11:00:03 < qyx> aslr sounds like some medical condition
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2024-03-31T15:01:09 < zyp> qyx, or the analog counterpart to a dslr
2024-03-31T15:01:31 < zyp> although before dslrs, they were just called slrs
2024-03-31T15:02:54 < qyx> I have a zyp question but is quite complex
2024-03-31T15:03:49 < qyx> I did -fno-omit-frame-pointer (idk if actually required), -funwind-tables, -mpoke-function-name (this one is optional)
2024-03-31T15:04:03 < qyx> and trying to make this work https://github.com/red-rocket-computing/backtrace/tree/master
2024-03-31T15:04:41 < qyx> but now I am at a double fault of some sort
2024-03-31T15:06:52 < zyp> that looks interesting, but I'm on the way out, so I don't have time to look at it now
2024-03-31T15:07:29 < zyp> oh, and here's the serializer tests I ended up writing last night: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ssXc7
2024-03-31T15:07:32 < zyp> worked out well
2024-03-31T15:08:33 < zyp> just ignores the tag id and sends a newline instead, so it ends up serializing to a series of numbers with one line per log entry
2024-03-31T15:09:53 < jpa-> qyx: you could try the backtrace first in normal function instead of hardfault handler, that way it won't doublefault
2024-03-31T15:10:36 < qyx> it started to doublefault when I enabled no-omit-frame-pointer, it cycles in the unwind instruction decoder and then busfaults
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2024-03-31T16:27:23 < karlp> zyp: your examples for smolt look fine, I'm mostly just feelingburnt from laks having all these raw includes like "rcc/rcc.h" which could be anything, I'd prefer a <laks/rcc....>
2024-03-31T16:30:15 < karlp> he you started with "truncatedd to 32bits" and I immediately went, "hrmm, aslr is going to make a mess of that I suspect"
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2024-03-31T19:00:33 < zyp> I figure they're all in the same segment so they all just get the same offset
2024-03-31T19:01:37 < zyp> and yeah, laks should have had better include paths
2024-03-31T19:02:57 < zyp> when I at some point can move over to modules, it'll be something like «import laks.rcc;»
2024-03-31T19:11:50 < zyp> doesn't seem super worthwhile to go change it before we can switch to modules
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2024-03-31T20:05:15 < qyx> you can NOW
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2024-03-31T22:10:37 < zyp> idk
2024-03-31T22:11:02 < zyp> I know the compilers support it now, but last I checked build system support was still lacking
2024-03-31T22:28:29 < veverak> cmake supports it
2024-03-31T22:28:53 < veverak> but I still lack motivation and it feels like something where I would also have to figure out how to use it "right"
2024-03-31T22:28:58 < veverak> so I prefer to wait this out
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2024-03-31T22:31:03 < zyp> unfortunately zyp support for cmake is also lacking, so that's not an option
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2024-03-31T22:35:27 < qyx> :>
2024-03-31T22:36:43 < zyp> I've considered simply writing my own build system
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2024-03-31T22:37:08 < zyp> the laks build system already runs a bunch of custom stuff on top of scons
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2024-03-31T22:37:18 < veverak> I would kill you for that if I would've to use it
2024-03-31T22:37:59 < zyp> and if the module infrastructure means that the compiler will tell me what dependencies one module has, there's not a whole lot left for scons to do
2024-03-31T22:39:19 < qyx> nah, I am using scons for many other things
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2024-03-31T22:39:35 < qyx> prepare kconfig, create firmware images, sign them, etc.
2024-03-31T22:39:58 < qyx> idk how could gcc alone supplement htis
2024-03-31T22:40:24 < zyp> that doesn't sound like stuff scons already knows how to do, that just sounds like stuff scons tells you when to do
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2024-03-31T22:42:44 < zyp> the way I see it, a build system consists of two parts; building a dependency graph and executing the graph
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2024-03-31T22:45:23 < zyp> the second half is easy, just check which of the steps are out of date and run them and their dependents in dependency order
2024-03-31T22:45:41 < veverak> yeah, it's not that easy tho
2024-03-31T22:46:08 < veverak> you still need layer to express stuff in some human-friendly way (I do love that cmake has abstraction of "executable", "library", which has properties that can be defined)
2024-03-31T22:46:11 < veverak> this front-end has to be done
2024-03-31T22:46:25 < veverak> you also want integrated way to handle dependencies and be able to treat them differently
2024-03-31T22:46:26 < zyp> you could literally just stick the whole graph into python's graphlib.TopologicalSorter and just run through it
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2024-03-31T22:46:45 < zyp> so yeah, the hard part is building the graph
2024-03-31T22:47:03 < veverak> another part is _testing_, having tests integrated into the build system opens a lot of stuff that can't be done without it (something cmake fails at)
2024-03-31T22:47:54 < veverak> all and all a shitload o work to do it riht and one needs proper experience
2024-03-31T22:47:58 < qyx> yeah, binary test artifacts should be supported too
2024-03-31T22:48:03 < veverak> so
2024-03-31T22:48:24 < qyx> so you would not need to path that around to hide backdoors
2024-03-31T22:48:24 < veverak> given that I just have to use inhouse buildsystem because somebody thought "it is easy!" I got PTSD from it
2024-03-31T22:48:26 < veverak> (the system is shit)
2024-03-31T22:48:40 < zyp> :)
2024-03-31T22:49:07 < veverak> anyway, for the record: I did write C++ library that is basically "makefile, but as a library" and I would not consider it a build system
2024-03-31T22:49:26 < veverak> (it can build the graph, track dependencies, do lazy-execution only on file change, etc etc, all the graph + traversal stuff)
2024-03-31T22:49:41 < veverak> zyp: ha! you forgot that you want to do graph traversal in pararell :P
2024-03-31T22:49:50 < zyp> graphlib supports that
2024-03-31T22:49:50 < veverak> (toposort is not enough)
2024-03-31T22:49:55 < qyx> sorry for being unhelpful, but cmake is like from another universe for me, I simply don't understand it and I fail at persuading myself to try that once again
2024-03-31T22:50:10 < qyx> and trying any other build system besides what I already know is a step back
2024-03-31T22:50:28 < zyp> TopologicalSorter has a get_ready() that returns all the nodes currently able to be processed in parallel
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2024-03-31T23:12:43 < qyx> ot, any idea how to implement a uptime counter in some standard way?
2024-03-31T23:13:41 < qyx> hm I probably need to use RTC as I am using sleep/stop
2024-03-31T23:13:45 < zyp> that's what the ticks counter of pretty much every non-tickless system is, you just need to handle rollovers
2024-03-31T23:15:02 < qyx> I am progressing with the crash manager thing, I managed to get backtraces working
2024-03-31T23:15:11 < qyx> but under some circumstances they don't work or cycle
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--- Log closed ma huhti 01 00:00:34 2024