--- Log opened to elo 01 00:00:09 2024
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2024-08-01T00:25:20 < Steffanx> Qyx pumping out pcbs like crazy
2024-08-01T00:37:12 < qyx> yeah but I forgot to order some inductors, diodes and mosfets
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2024-08-01T00:45:54 < catphish> qyx: cool
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--- Day changed pe elo 02 2024
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2024-08-02T00:13:32 < qyx> so karland has a new president too
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2024-08-02T22:34:31 < qyx> the board is finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/RWOs5
2024-08-02T22:34:38 < qyx> also https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Nic25
2024-08-02T22:35:08 < qyx> no more cognitive capabilities to do a test firmware now
2024-08-02T22:58:38 < antto> was ist das ;P~
2024-08-02T22:58:44 < antto> it smells like kicad
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--- Day changed la elo 03 2024
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2024-08-03T00:08:15 < qyx> you smell like a kicad :P
2024-08-03T00:08:22 < qyx> an ecu, exactly what it says
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2024-08-03T00:38:49 < Steffanx> What engine will it control and for what qyx? 
2024-08-03T00:39:10 < Steffanx> Your tractor thing was going to be full electric right?
2024-08-03T00:43:42 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/LPbnh/VID_2024-07-12-23-44-08-130.mp4
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2024-08-03T11:45:06 < Steffanx> But what's that going to drive ?
2024-08-03T11:45:17 < qyx> nothing, a generator
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2024-08-03T11:45:37 < qyx> have you ever seen a 53cc generator with EFI?
2024-08-03T11:46:44 < Steffanx> No.
2024-08-03T11:46:48 < qyx> me neither.
2024-08-03T11:47:17 < Steffanx> Ok
2024-08-03T11:47:28 < qyx> so it is a true innovation
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2024-08-03T12:29:21 < Steffanx> Absolutely
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2024-08-03T20:01:58 < karlp> we voted for her ages ago, old one annouced he wasn't standing for re-election on new years eve.
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2024-08-03T20:44:51 < qyx> is she ok
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--- Day changed su elo 04 2024
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2024-08-04T17:27:11 < karlp> she's probably fine.
2024-08-04T17:27:27 < karlp> a little bit corpo, but, so be it.
2024-08-04T17:27:42 < karlp> it's mostly ceremonial
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--- Day changed ma elo 05 2024
2024-08-05T00:28:39 < catphish> so, sensing 230V AC with an STM32, optocoupler, or just connect the 230V line straight to a GPIO and hope for the best?
2024-08-05T00:30:13 < qyx> depends on the device
2024-08-05T00:30:20 < qyx> does it need isolation?
2024-08-05T00:31:18 < catphish> nope
2024-08-05T00:31:45 < catphish> i'm told just a very high value resistor may suffice
2024-08-05T00:32:01 < qyx> two in series at least
2024-08-05T00:32:37 < qyx> and check which type is guaranteed to fail open, I forgot
2024-08-05T00:33:53 < catphish> i started designing my home automation thingemy, it has a STM32G4 and a SX1281
2024-08-05T00:34:21 < catphish> will need a 230V SMPS i guess, and a relay
2024-08-05T00:34:21 < qyx> what will it do?
2024-08-05T00:34:35 < qyx> wait what, sx is a radio?
2024-08-05T00:34:44 < catphish> lora radio
2024-08-05T00:35:10 < qyx> WB is L4+sx1261 iirc?
2024-08-05T00:35:17 < qyx> sorry WL
2024-08-05T00:35:41 < qyx> I still want to try that
2024-08-05T00:36:14 < catphish> qyx: i'm unclear how i missed that, very cool, i bet it's more expensve and less available than the 2 componnts i listed thugh
2024-08-05T00:36:37 < qyx> it wasn't that bad when I checked last
2024-08-05T00:36:39 < catphish> anyway, i'm not 100% sure yet, but the vague idea is that it will go in a lighting installation, and allow me to switch the light on and off using both a traditional switch, and remotely
2024-08-05T00:37:06 < catphish> much like https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-plus-1/
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2024-08-05T00:37:29 < qyx> isn't shelly pretty cheam and supported by esphome?
2024-08-05T00:38:11 < catphish> shelly may well be the correct choice
2024-08-05T00:38:20 < qyx> or is it more of a fun-project than a need-project
2024-08-05T00:39:02 < catphish> mostly for fun, and because i've been disapointed with zigbee, and thought there might be a way to better it
2024-08-05T00:39:07 < catphish> not sure if wifi is the right answer
2024-08-05T00:40:02 < catphish> it's an excuse to play with lora, but of course will need some kind of hub
2024-08-05T00:42:39 < catphish> the story is basically this:
2024-08-05T00:42:39 < catphish> 1) i want the lights in my new house to be controllable by automation / alexa
2024-08-05T00:42:39 < catphish> 2) i've found philips hue / zigbee too unreliable / unresponsive for me to be confident using smart bulbs
2024-08-05T00:42:39 < catphish> 3) i want traditional light switches, but with the ability to override them
2024-08-05T00:43:55 < catphish> so shelly basically fits the bill, but i also thought that lora would likely be even more reliable than wifi (though reliability is only critical for the physical switches)
2024-08-05T00:45:04 < qyx> do you want to use a custom MAC for LoRa?
2024-08-05T00:45:14 < qyx> because LoRaWAN won't work for this
2024-08-05T00:45:18 < catphish> yes
2024-08-05T00:45:53 < qyx> but I guess for a single house and a couple of inhabitants you may as well go mac-less
2024-08-05T00:45:56 < catphish> i don't know a huge amount about lora, but i am super happy with expressLRS, so i figured a custom MAC could do this job very well
2024-08-05T00:46:20 < catphish> (a very simple one)
2024-08-05T00:47:43 < catphish> the other thing is that i figured i'd design it with a SPDT relay so that it acts *exactly* like an additional switch in a lighting circuit, that way even if it fails catastrophically, the physical switched will still work
2024-08-05T00:47:48 < catphish> *switches
2024-08-05T00:48:24 < catphish> it's basically a smart switch for technophobes
2024-08-05T00:48:40 < qyx> will you rewire all your circuits?
2024-08-05T00:49:12 < catphish> yes, but not in a way that's proprietary to this
2024-08-05T00:49:13 < qyx> and you need a X switch
2024-08-05T00:49:52 < catphish> let me draw it...
2024-08-05T00:50:04 < qyx> if you already have a two-switch circuit (two SPDT) you need and X in between to work that way
2024-08-05T00:50:32 < qyx> we call that stair circuits
2024-08-05T00:50:55 < catphish> yes that's exactly it...
2024-08-05T00:51:14 < catphish> this thing would be the first SPDT, a normal swotch would be the second SPDT
2024-08-05T00:51:32 < catphish> but if you wanted 2+ physical switches, you'd add X switches
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2024-08-05T00:52:11 < qyx> ok that's true
2024-08-05T00:52:37 < qyx> if you put the inteligent one always at the beginning of the circuit, you don't need it to be X
2024-08-05T00:53:34 < qyx> the downside of this thing is no dimming and no feedback
2024-08-05T00:59:58 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/I5bS9eW.jpg
2024-08-05T01:01:30 < catphish> the downsides are 1) no dimming 2) you'd need to run a 4-core cable to every switch if you also want neutral to the switch points
2024-08-05T01:01:41 < catphish> neither of those things are a problem for me
2024-08-05T01:02:10 < catphish> and it *could* do dimming with the right additional parts
2024-08-05T01:02:39 < catphish> but that dimming couldn't be controlled by physical switches
2024-08-05T01:03:19 < catphish> it has feedback in so much as that it can tell the current state of the light
2024-08-05T01:08:29 < catphish> shelly can broadly do this, though a slightly different way
2024-08-05T01:08:50 < catphish> and presumably doesn't fail often enough to be a problem
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2024-08-05T13:25:40 < ventYl> is there any "trick" to make multi-drop debugging working? GDB connected to RP2040 usually melts down when I try to activate the second core. no breakpoints, no nothing.
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2024-08-05T15:32:54 < jpa-> ventYl: picoprobe kinda works with second core, but stlink doesn't
2024-08-05T15:40:57 < ventYl> jpa-: I use yapicoprobe, but it does weird things. second core does not like to be launched without prior reset and resetting it usually makes all breakpoints to get ignored
2024-08-05T15:41:07 < ventYl> moreover, even BKPT instruction seems to be ignored
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2024-08-05T16:08:15 < ventYl> jpa-: is the state of 2nd core sane after reset? like vector tables 'n' stuff
2024-08-05T17:06:03 < jpa-> i think it is supposed to be in infinite loop inside the rom bootloader until the first core initializes it
2024-08-05T17:10:32 < ventYl> yeah but neither rp2040 datasheet nor pico SDK go into deep detail on what is the state of core after it is "booted"
2024-08-05T17:10:56 < ventYl> when I boot my kernel on 2nd core, I can see that the core immediately goes into lockup
2024-08-05T17:11:07 < ventYl> via hardfault
2024-08-05T17:12:09 < ventYl> one possibility how it got there is that it hardfaulted for some reason and vector table isn't set up properly for the core
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2024-08-05T19:16:17 < catphish> wow STM32WL looks awesome for my usecase
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2024-08-05T19:31:23 < catphish> 868MHz rather than 2.4GHz. the only real downside is having no choice of MCU, that makes adding an ethernet bridge more of a pain
2024-08-05T20:01:22 < jbo> moin moin
2024-08-05T20:01:59 < catphish> morningggggggg
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2024-08-05T20:06:40 < jbo> are you feeling fancy?
2024-08-05T20:08:42 < ventYl> nah that thing is broken
2024-08-05T20:08:51 < ventYl> it mirrors core0 information as core1
2024-08-05T20:12:22 < Steffanx> Gooday sir jbo
2024-08-05T20:12:27 < Steffanx> How's it hanging?
2024-08-05T20:24:01 < ventYl> not even plain pico-sdk can boot core1 into infinite loop
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2024-08-05T21:02:37 < jbo> not complaining - there?
2024-08-05T21:05:31 < ventYl> OK, so th offender here is yapicoprobe
2024-08-05T21:05:45 < ventYl> if it is connected then 2nd core boot fails
2024-08-05T21:13:36 < Steffanx> I could complain, but nah, jbo  :P
2024-08-05T21:14:15 < Steffanx> That's what you get for making yet another picoprobe, ventYl 
2024-08-05T21:16:07 < ventYl> I did not make it
2024-08-05T21:16:17 < ventYl> but yeah. so many picoprobes and all are shitty
2024-08-05T21:17:58 < ventYl> so, toss ya away, try standard one out
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2024-08-05T21:26:33 < ventYl> nah, that thing doesn't work at all
2024-08-05T21:26:59  * ventYl stoopid
2024-08-05T21:29:09 < ventYl> ok, same shit
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2024-08-06T05:47:48 < englishman> jadew no longer chats here?
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2024-08-06T13:12:05 < karlp> not really, haven't seen him in ages.
2024-08-06T13:12:43 < BrainDamage> probably busy finishing the temp logger
2024-08-06T13:14:18 < karlp> lol
2024-08-06T14:41:20 < mawk> he's not been on our secret racist channel either for a while
2024-08-06T14:41:39 < mawk> he's probably dead
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2024-08-06T14:50:23 < Laurenceb_> top kek
2024-08-06T14:50:24 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/card_img%2F1820500176252932096%2Fvd8T-veM%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3D800x419
2024-08-06T14:51:12 < Laurenceb_> meanwhile in england
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--- Day changed ke elo 07 2024
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2024-08-07T10:05:33 < machinehum> Guess I didn't get an invite to the racist channel
2024-08-07T10:27:28 < jpa-> you are on it right now
2024-08-07T10:27:54 < jpa-> just not the secret racist channel
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2024-08-07T11:06:04 < Steffanx> Yes you are very racist jpa-
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2024-08-07T12:26:17 < karlp> machinehum: https://t.me/stm32pro
2024-08-07T12:33:31 < machinehum> Finally a place I can voice my distaste for _________
2024-08-07T12:39:01 < Steffanx> Can i buy an 'e'?
2024-08-07T12:53:55 < karlp> meh, nginx fronted the qnap php thing, seemed to work, now I've tried uploading a file to it via it's web interface, does the dragndrop, queues it, and then.... just... doesn't transfer it.
2024-08-07T12:56:15 < karlp> "[error] 445057#445057: *2766 client intended to send too large body: 20218953 bytes"
2024-08-07T12:56:18 < karlp> guess it's that then.
2024-08-07T13:01:20 < karlp> client_max_body_size 4G;
2024-08-07T13:01:23 < karlp> much better :)
2024-08-07T13:13:54 < karlp> fuckin, "we tried using OPC-DA to talk to the machines, but it turns out the machines run linux, so.... we... are reviewing our plans"
2024-08-07T13:19:21 < karlp> more lol. bolted a phone onto a machine, with a python opc client script, using "auto-py-to-exe" to make it run on windows, that polls some upc shitz, and on an event, use one of the "IP webcam" apps to take a photo on the phone.
2024-08-07T13:19:42 < karlp> solutions engineering....
2024-08-07T13:31:43 < Steffanx> Sounds like someone hired laurenceb
2024-08-07T14:29:20 < karlp> stm32g4 inside: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/r/rfbeam/v-ld1-distance-sensor
2024-08-07T15:05:37 < qyx> the other chip is some asic-antenna?
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2024-08-07T15:32:49 < machinehum> HX711 seems to work alright
2024-08-07T15:33:03 < machinehum> It's just shitty you have to bitbang it
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2024-08-07T17:23:54 < zyp> that's my experience too
2024-08-07T17:24:07 < zyp> annoying interface but works well when you move past that
2024-08-07T17:28:19 < qyx> nah there are many other pretty ADCs for bridges
2024-08-07T17:28:22 < qyx> with sane interfaces
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2024-08-07T18:56:46 < karlp> heh, was ranting about how to open stupid pdf portfolios, and right there on the oiml webpage: "In a Linux environment, the contents of a Portfolio may be viewed using “Evince”, and then setting the side panel to attachments mode."
2024-08-07T18:59:09 < qyx> an attachment in a pdf?
2024-08-07T18:59:14 < qyx> what about no
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2024-08-07T19:19:50 < karlp> yeah, it's teh suck,
2024-08-07T19:20:14 < karlp> but apparently OIML thinks a single pdf with lots of pdfs inside is better htan USB-IF and bt-sig offering .zip's with multiple pdfs inside...
2024-08-07T19:21:04 < karlp> just been having fun checking reality against interpreations of oiml r76 vs nist handbook 44, r2023
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2024-08-07T19:49:24 < ventYl> HKMC can do attachments in excel cells
2024-08-07T19:49:49 < ventYl> suddently that 150 megabytes for one excel document makes perfect sense
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--- Day changed to elo 08 2024
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2024-08-08T01:33:34 < karlp> hey, esp32-p4 finally available
2024-08-08T01:33:43 < karlp> hkmc?
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2024-08-08T09:09:07 < qyx> hong kong mortgage corporation maybe
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2024-08-08T10:13:02 < Steffanx> Lol I googled it too. Didn't make sense either 
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2024-08-08T11:16:03 < qyx> what is esp-prog?
2024-08-08T11:17:10 < qyx> it looks like openocd supports it
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2024-08-08T12:29:18 < karlp> probably still just in esp fork, but they've been getting more of their fork back upstream recently.
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2024-08-08T16:30:03 < machinehum> karlp: You used this esp32-p4?
2024-08-08T16:30:59 < machinehum> When you say upstream... upstream what?
2024-08-08T16:31:46 < machinehum> Oh sorry openocd
2024-08-08T16:33:08 < karlp> machinehum: nah, just it's been announced and talked about for ages, as esp's first non-wifi+"bigger" cpu
2024-08-08T16:38:21 < machinehum> "ESP32-P4 supports PSRAM connected in parallel with the SPI flash chip."
2024-08-08T16:39:56 < machinehum> So you can connect up to 64MB of ram with... SPI?
2024-08-08T16:43:54 < machinehum> I guess it's not crazy, it will use the internal RAM as "cache", so most people expanding ram would probably be doing something with images or something
2024-08-08T17:18:21 < Steffanx> Only some engineering samples on the AliExpress... ?
2024-08-08T17:43:02 < qyx> machinehum: that's an old concept
2024-08-08T17:43:21 < qyx> but apparently they failed to multiplex two chips with i dividual CSs
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2024-08-08T18:02:49 < machinehum> hmm
2024-08-08T18:03:29 < machinehum> So they SPI daisy chained the RAM with the flash memory for extra bullshit?
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2024-08-08T19:01:29 < jpa-> huh, new RP2350, and now they have more GPIOs
2024-08-08T19:01:36 < jpa-> such innovation
2024-08-08T19:01:51 < jpa-> whole 16 more!
2024-08-08T20:48:46 < ventYl> do want
2024-08-08T21:12:49 < Steffanx> But still nothing fancy because... Use the PIo
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2024-08-08T22:14:46 < jpa-> Steffanx: they have fancy new GPIO errata
2024-08-08T22:15:03 < jpa-> pulldown resistors don't work correctly if the pin is configured as input
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2024-08-08T22:22:56 < jpa-> on the other hand, they seem to have replaced the weird on-chip multidrop swd thing with a more traditional multi-AP debug interface
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2024-08-08T23:21:15 < qyx> hows innovation going
2024-08-08T23:22:22 -!- noarb [~noarb@user/noarb] has joined ##stm32
2024-08-08T23:26:08 < qyx> is mouser's search broken again?
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2024-08-08T23:52:09 < jbo> mouser made me shit my pants the other day
--- Day changed pe elo 09 2024
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2024-08-09T01:50:06 < upgrdman> any of the stm32's support usb3? (device mode, if that matters)
2024-08-09T01:50:40 < qyx> afaik no
2024-08-09T01:50:44 < upgrdman> k
2024-08-09T01:50:57 < qyx> but check stm32mp2
2024-08-09T01:51:08 < qyx> not a MCU though
2024-08-09T01:52:12 < qyx> you could probably use some parallel-to-usb3 chips with those wide parallel interfaces on eg. H7/H5
2024-08-09T01:53:02 < upgrdman> ya, i was looking at the ftdi ft601
2024-08-09T02:09:19 < sauce> sup upgrdman
2024-08-09T02:09:35 < sauce> whatcha working on
2024-08-09T02:11:34 < upgrdman> i made a high-speed datalogger / low-speed oscilloscope. usb2hs is my bottleneck now, haha.
2024-08-09T02:12:22 < upgrdman> on the plus side, im making shitloads of improvements to my Telemetry Viewer software. lots of optimizations now that i can easily stress-test it
2024-08-09T02:12:53 < upgrdman> oh, and im also trying to make my own BLDC motor controller. would like to play with FOC eventually.
2024-08-09T02:17:13 < qyx> everyone is makig a bldc controller?
2024-08-09T02:17:38 < upgrdman> i guess so :)
2024-08-09T02:17:56 < upgrdman> but im aiming to be super pro and do FOC.
2024-08-09T02:18:48 < qyx> I am trying to innovate a rotor position estimator now
2024-08-09T02:19:01 < upgrdman> nice
2024-08-09T02:19:21 < qyx> not much, I don't know what's the right approach
2024-08-09T02:19:22 < upgrdman> have you found any nice app notes / etc about BLDC controllers?
2024-08-09T02:19:37 < qyx> no, I am not a motor pro yet
2024-08-09T02:19:47 < qyx> jpa and zyp are
2024-08-09T02:20:03 < upgrdman> im currently on step 1 of many... open loop control and looking at voltage and current measurements to get a gut feeling for how shit works ^_^
2024-08-09T02:20:11 < upgrdman> k
2024-08-09T02:20:58 < qyx> I am currently only commutating using halls and setting pwm statically
2024-08-09T02:21:19 < qyx> I need it for starting a generator
2024-08-09T02:21:39 < qyx> then, like most of the time, it will work in reverse
2024-08-09T02:21:46 < upgrdman> how are you calc'ing PWM duty cycle? PID, or just P?
2024-08-09T02:23:07 < qyx> I am not, I set it to a constant and wait until I reach enough rpm, then I enable ignition and turn off the controller
2024-08-09T02:23:23 < upgrdman> hmmm k
2024-08-09T02:23:57 < qyx> but yeah foc and continuous change from cranking to generating would be great
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2024-08-09T10:20:24 < machinehum> Why the fuck did they use a usb micro for the new pico
2024-08-09T10:20:42 < machinehum> I guess obviously cost
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2024-08-09T10:30:12 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/wM7BKgZ
2024-08-09T10:30:14 < machinehum> hmm
2024-08-09T11:05:56 < ventYl> damn that core is pretty well specced
2024-08-09T11:06:09 < ventYl> https://github.com/Wren6991/Hazard3/blob/stable/Readme.md
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2024-08-09T11:43:34 < machinehum> How exactly would this work
2024-08-09T11:44:11 < machinehum> Does the microcode instructions change, with some using the same logic blocks as ARM
2024-08-09T11:45:13 < machinehum> I don't know enough about processor design but it seems hard to turn an ARM core into a risc-v core
2024-08-09T11:54:57 < BrainDamage> nearly all modern cpus have internal logic that have little to do with the assembler
2024-08-09T11:55:08 < BrainDamage> and microcode translates on the fly the asm to the internal one
2024-08-09T11:55:44 < BrainDamage> in theory you could even run arm code on x86 cpu with the right firmware, but it'll likely map rather bad and inefficiently
2024-08-09T11:57:54 < machinehum> I feel like arm -> x86 would be a lot more inefficient than x86 -> arm
2024-08-09T11:58:34 < machinehum> So in the case of this rpi mcu there would be two different "translation" firmwares
2024-08-09T12:00:27 < machinehum> Firmware being something logic in the hardware that is doing the translation, and not actually running on a core
2024-08-09T12:11:25 < BrainDamage> it's likely both
2024-08-09T12:12:50 < jpa-> machinehum: they just have separate riscv core and arm core
2024-08-09T12:13:00 < jpa-> the riscv core (no fpu etc.) is tiny in die area
2024-08-09T12:13:13 < BrainDamage> oh, so they have dedicated hw?
2024-08-09T12:13:57 < jpa-> yes, it is just the hazard3 core as-is hooked to the same bus as arm core, and then they turn off the clock to one of them based on config register
2024-08-09T12:17:04 < jpa-> https://assets.raspberrypi.com/static/floorplan@1x-642e9c1ff35ab90927eeaddd4826846e.png  already in RP2040 the cortex-m0 cores are tiny in comparison to RAM, and RP2350 has double the RAM and cortex-m33 cores
2024-08-09T12:17:19 < jpa-> i expect hazard3 is slightly larger than cortex-m0 but smaller than cortex-m33f
2024-08-09T12:18:26 < machinehum> oh two cores
2024-08-09T12:20:58 < machinehum> Actually kinda a cool way to do it, tiptoeing into riscv rather than just jumping in
2024-08-09T12:24:00 < jpa-> and cheaper to manufacture one chip type rather than half the volume of two chip types - all peripherals and RAM can be shared
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2024-08-09T12:25:34 < machinehum> Yeah smort
2024-08-09T12:26:26 < machinehum> For 5$ I'll get a couple
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2024-08-09T12:45:55 < zyp> this hybrid arm or risc-v stuff seems to be a trend, rp2350 is far from the first chip doing it
2024-08-09T12:46:45 < zyp> see e.g. the SG2002 that's used on milk-v duo
2024-08-09T12:47:22 < zyp> and there's been other chips too, IIRC NXP or somebody had a similar design many years ago
2024-08-09T12:53:07 < zyp> ah, this one: https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/02/05/openisa-vegaboard-risc-v-arm-cortex-m-cores/
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2024-08-09T14:48:40 < ventYl> its weird to read "years ago" in connection with risc-v
2024-08-09T14:50:31 < zyp> that linked article is over five years old :)
2024-08-09T14:52:06 < zyp> also, according to my ##stm32 logs, the first mention of risc-v here was in 2014
2024-08-09T14:53:23 < ventYl> in 2014 i've been soldering my trustworthy and now wery rad-looking USBasp
2024-08-09T14:53:35 < ventYl> maybe a bit earlier
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--- Day changed la elo 10 2024
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2024-08-10T00:54:42 < qyx> liebe freunde, I have a timer with a compare output
2024-08-10T00:55:07 < qyx> I want to precisely time both turn on and turn off
2024-08-10T00:55:27 < qyx> without gating another timer in a single shot mode
2024-08-10T00:56:13 < qyx> my current idea is to setup OC sa PWM2, assert output on compare match
2024-08-10T00:57:08 < qyx> and in the compare interrupt reconfigure it for PWM1 and update the CC reg value
2024-08-10T00:57:29 < qyx> so it deasserts on compare match
2024-08-10T01:33:22 < qyx> no worky, but it works with OC mode TOGGLE
2024-08-10T01:33:35 < qyx> until I miss a single toggle
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2024-08-10T01:53:10 < fenugrec> qyx you mean constant period, but arbitrary compare values for both start and end of pulse ?
2024-08-10T01:54:06 < fenugrec> qyx you could use toggle mode, DMA compare value from a 2-value array with auto loop. maybe.
2024-08-10T01:56:25 < qyx> I did toggle mode + interrupt, in the interrupt I check & exchange the value in CCRx
2024-08-10T01:56:43 < qyx> even if the interrupt is a bit late it should not matter
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2024-08-10T02:33:38 < fenugrec> I didnt mean an interrupt, but trigger DMA on the compares. I don't remember if CCR is double-buffered or now, it may not work still
2024-08-10T02:34:00 < fenugrec> I wanted to do something vaguely similar, I think I had something figured out but never tested. Should look at my notes
2024-08-10T02:36:28 < qyx> CCR can be double buffered but it can be turned off
2024-08-10T02:36:58 < qyx> I am too lazy for DMA now
2024-08-10T02:37:22 < fenugrec> eh, can't find my notes anyway
2024-08-10T02:39:00 < fenugrec> I think I ruled out the toggle mode because missing one would be catastrophic
2024-08-10T02:41:18 < qyx> nah I did synchronized sampling on multiple interrupts, I synced counters on enable and it managed to run for months without any issue
2024-08-10T02:41:28 < qyx> s/interrupts/timers
2024-08-10T02:42:25 < qyx> also in my particular case I can easily detect if the polarity is inversed
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--- Day changed su elo 11 2024
2024-08-11T00:08:59 < jbo> god I hate LGA
2024-08-11T00:09:46 < PaulFertser> "So, in conclusion, go replan all your STM32H7 projects with RP2350, save money, headaches, and time. As a bonus, you’ll get an extra core to play with too!" https://dmitry.gr/?r=06.%20Thoughts&proj=11.%20RP2350
2024-08-11T00:17:00 < qyx> sure
2024-08-11T00:17:14 < qyx> is he trolling or serious
2024-08-11T00:22:06 < jbo> .gr so definitely trolling :p
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2024-08-11T01:10:41 < qyx> jbo: hows wildlife going
2024-08-11T01:14:21 < jbo> qyx, just got the new PCB out of the oven
2024-08-11T01:14:45 < jbo> first uBlox PCB
2024-08-11T01:14:59 < jbo> I hope LGA soldering went well...
2024-08-11T01:15:07 < jbo> for some weird reason I don't have an X-Ray machine
2024-08-11T01:15:13 < jbo> gofundme.jpeg
2024-08-11T01:19:32 < Steffanx> Who needs that anyway. They work or they don't one day.
2024-08-11T01:20:37 < Steffanx> Which module of those swissers did you use jbo? 
2024-08-11T01:20:53 < Steffanx> Even I was able to solder some ublox ble modules just find
2024-08-11T01:23:03 < jbo> Steffanx, LENA-R8
2024-08-11T01:25:35 < Steffanx> fine*
2024-08-11T01:27:35 < Steffanx> Aha going for CAT 1bis too. 
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2024-08-11T08:13:48 < octorian> So I just attempted to use an ST-Link v3 ISOL to try and get debug data from a device being subjected to fast transient (EFT) bursts.  Learned of a few code paths to investigate, but also learned that EFT bursts will make the ST-Link v3 ISOL freeze up and possibly restart the target.
2024-08-11T08:15:20 < octorian> I wonder if the Segger J-Link SWD Isolator will perform any better in this case.  Would probably need to compare the designs of the two.
2024-08-11T08:15:57 < octorian> Alternatively, maybe some sort of opto-isolated serial adapter, if configured correctly, could be a usable quick-and-dirty solution for getting some log data.
2024-08-11T08:16:47 < octorian> (which might be desired with the Segger thing anyways, since it doesn't seem to pass UART pins, unless I switch to RTT)
2024-08-11T08:18:06 < jpa-> octorian: rpi + wireless?
2024-08-11T08:18:39 < octorian> This assumes the RPi is immune to the EFT event.  I can't make that assumption.
2024-08-11T08:19:40 < jpa-> i'm not sure if there is anything that specs it is, but if you can get it to the same power domain (ground etc.) it could follow the voltage transient better
2024-08-11T08:19:50 < jpa-> USB-to-fiber converters might be worth testing too
2024-08-11T08:20:04 < jpa-> because the fiber gives a much smaller isolation capacitance
2024-08-11T08:21:07 < jpa-> i wonder if you really need to debug during the transient, or if you could just connect the debugger after the transient and read out log buffers etc?
2024-08-11T08:22:58 < octorian> That might work if I use Segger RTT (where there actually is a RAM buffer), and I can connect it without altering device state.
2024-08-11T08:23:07 < octorian> Would still much rather see things as they happen.
2024-08-11T08:23:43 < jpa-> uart only is probably easy enough
2024-08-11T08:24:03 < jpa-> you can put a RAM buffer for any logging though..
2024-08-11T08:29:50 < octorian> I think I found something worth a try.  FT232 dongle with optocouplers on the front.  Might as well order it, since it'll take a while to get here.
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2024-08-11T12:36:37  * qyx covered in tomato ketchup
2024-08-11T12:36:45 < qyx> I did not kill your stlinkz
2024-08-11T12:37:58 < Steffanx> I'm not convinced qyx
2024-08-11T12:38:24 < Steffanx> Are you still using your esp cameras qyx?
2024-08-11T12:38:40 < qyx> it is off now
2024-08-11T12:38:44 < qyx> actually both of them
2024-08-11T12:38:45 < qyx> why?
2024-08-11T12:40:54 < Steffanx> Was wondering what you used.. and did you esphome them?
2024-08-11T12:55:27 < qyx> I'll send you later today
2024-08-11T12:55:35 < qyx> do you mean hw or sw components?
2024-08-11T13:02:17 < Steffanx> sw mainly
2024-08-11T13:02:32 < Steffanx> but i guess ill just buy a module and try to set up.
2024-08-11T13:20:33 < qyx> I used esp32-cam and firebeetle2
2024-08-11T13:20:46 < qyx> the beetle was a bit nontrivial to setup
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2024-08-11T14:21:21 < Steffanx> Will you write your own lib for the AT commands and stuff jbo ?
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2024-08-11T22:39:15 < octorian> All this EFT testing seems to give results all over the place.  But one thing I'm certain of is that the ST-Link ISOL is actually far more strongly affected than the actual system under test :-)
2024-08-11T22:40:05 < octorian> (I'll probably just put this all aside for now, as far as attempts at live logging, until I have that opto-isolated FT232 dongle to try)
2024-08-11T22:44:47 < octorian> For the most part, the only components of the actual system that seem to be affected is the state of USB devices downstream from the STM32.  And no matter what I've tried as far as hardware solutions to mitigate that, nothing makes a real difference at the 1kV level.
2024-08-11T22:45:09 < octorian> (some things do help with the "non-lab-test" example noise sources I've tried)
2024-08-11T22:45:29 < octorian> So my current strategy, lacking any better advice, is to make all these issues recoverable in firmware.
2024-08-11T22:45:56 < octorian> Already have functional handling of some cases, but not all.  Hence the need to log/test.
2024-08-11T22:47:28 < octorian> I do often wonder if a different USB Hub IC between the STM32 and the peripherals (currently using a Microchip USB2422) would perform better.  But that's a big enough change that its not worth trying without a real reason.
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--- Day changed ma elo 12 2024
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2024-08-12T08:18:11 < jpa-> octorian: data cables are always the most susceptible
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2024-08-12T08:24:42 < octorian> jpa-, And I've seen so many subtle variations on exactly what to put between a USB port and the upstream stuff, that I'm not really sure what the correct solution is.
2024-08-12T08:25:34 < octorian> (the TVS array is obvious, but then there are various combinations of ferrite beads, common mode chokes, capacitors, etc...  Seen it all between reference schematics and various guidebooks, no idea how to decide what the right solution is.)
2024-08-12T08:35:03 < jpa-> do you even need to stay operational during the EFT? protection and recovery is much easier
2024-08-12T08:41:36 < qyx> use them all if you design for compliance
2024-08-12T08:44:57 < jpa-> fully covering the cable with ferrites also protects it physically
2024-08-12T08:53:50 < octorian> I'm still wondering what the deal is with putting an internal choke on the data lines.  Is that to protect the device from the cable, protect something inside the device from leaking out via the cable, etc.
2024-08-12T08:54:06 < octorian> In other words, how to make the decision on whether or not its useful.
2024-08-12T08:54:59 < octorian> (and if USB speed plays a role in that)
2024-08-12T08:58:07 < qyx> CM chokes are to protect from an induced common mode voltages on the diff line
2024-08-12T08:58:35 < qyx> from eg. power lines
2024-08-12T09:00:14 < qyx> idk, I would use it for any cables protruding the device case
2024-08-12T09:02:13 < octorian> I know when I add it externally (e.g. like with the Wurth USB EMC Stick), I can't really see any effect on anything I've tried to test/measure.  But maybe it behaves differently if inside the enclosure/shield.
2024-08-12T09:03:04  * qyx @ <del>smoke</del> testing time
2024-08-12T09:04:14 < octorian> And then there's the question of whether to use an actual signal-line CMC (e.g. Wurth 744232090) upstream from the TVS array, or a more integrated combo part like the ST ECMF02-4CMX8.
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2024-08-12T17:06:53 < Laurenceb_> supppp
2024-08-12T17:07:18 < Laurenceb_> anyone here know anything about circular mil spec connectors? I'm trying to identify a 10 way connector
2024-08-12T17:08:09 < Laurenceb_> similar to this but top and bottom rows of 3 pins are not in a row
2024-08-12T17:08:11 < Laurenceb_> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mil-spec-circular-connectors/2837813?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-CSS_UK_EN_ePMax_Prio1-_--_-2837813&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI56rAzM_vhwMVHhEGAB2v-SF3EAQYASABEgImbfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
2024-08-12T17:08:24 < Laurenceb_> also has simple keying with a single indent
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2024-08-12T17:12:17 < Laurenceb_> hmm its similar to this but no keying
2024-08-12T17:12:18 < Laurenceb_> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mil-spec-circular-connectors/4422634
2024-08-12T17:12:25 < Laurenceb_> aiui that means its not mil spec
2024-08-12T17:16:39 < qyx> hjalp, how can my timer contain total bs and yet the output is correct?
2024-08-12T17:16:42 < qyx> preload is off
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--- Day changed ti elo 13 2024
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2024-08-13T02:15:24 < karlp> well, this has gone well. I've compeltely failed to run "working" code on  a spare board I brought home from work.
2024-08-13T02:15:52 < karlp> can't even breakpoint on resetisr or main, just instant sigtrap in the middle of some stack.
2024-08-13T02:16:02 < karlp> serves me right for working at home.
2024-08-13T02:17:45 < karlp> I mena, it's the sort of thing you'd get wrong with the wrong SP , but ram length is right, even tried reducing it.
2024-08-13T02:17:47  * karlp shrugs
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2024-08-13T03:25:36 < zyp> reset trap should work even if SP is invalid, it should trap before anything is pushed or whatever
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2024-08-13T08:29:06 < qyx> oh
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2024-08-13T12:19:06 < karlp> yeah, ws feeling like a gremlins in the matrix moment. just abandonded it.
2024-08-13T12:19:14 < karlp> in other news: "If the stored data are either encrypted or secured by a
2024-08-13T12:19:15 < karlp> signature (at least 2 bytes, e.g. a CRC-16 checksum with hidden polynomial) this will be
2024-08-13T12:19:17 < karlp> considered sufficient in order to protect the data against intentional changes.
2024-08-13T12:19:37 < karlp> such secure...
2024-08-13T12:30:43 < karlp> yeah, tried it on the board at work, set ram to too big, loaded, reset, catches happily at reset isr without issues, just crashes when it tries to use that bad stack.
2024-08-13T12:30:51 < karlp> stupid computers.
2024-08-13T12:35:18 < ventYl> that must have been proposed by some electrician
2024-08-13T12:35:31 < karlp> OIML R76 :)
2024-08-13T12:37:13 < ventYl> oh, an electrician would be a better case scenario here
2024-08-13T12:39:15 < ventYl> I am probably giving up on developing SMP support for RP2040. So far I have managed to crash openocd, pyocd and blackmagic using two different probes
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2024-08-13T15:00:36 < ventYl> WinAPI code is so ugly, it confused clang-tidy
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2024-08-13T16:11:45 < karlp> jpa-: in https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/debug.c youstill rely on having a functional SP when you enter HardFaultException am I right?
2024-08-13T16:12:18 < karlp> if the stack pointer is trash, it's will double fault right?
2024-08-13T16:12:39 < karlp> though i guess.. hrm. you don't normally get a corrupt SP, you get corrupt stack poitned to by SP ....
2024-08-13T16:13:52 < ventYl> does it switch from PSP to MSP? Then SP may still be valid even if it was trash before HardFault was issued
2024-08-13T16:15:38 < karlp> looks like it just reads msp as is...
2024-08-13T16:16:00 < karlp> trying to find a "good" example of crash handling, not just intern demos of maybes.
2024-08-13T16:16:32 < ventYl> the best is probably to configure thread mode to use PSP
2024-08-13T16:16:49 < ventYl> PSP->MSP switch will be done by the CPU automatically when entering handler mode
2024-08-13T16:19:21 < fenugrec> karlp I have a homemade HF handler that doesn't rely on SP, but copies regs to a struct that lives in a non-BSS ram area (e.g. needs ldscript tweakage)
2024-08-13T16:20:22 < fenugrec> I don't remember how much I tested it
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2024-08-13T19:16:38 < jpa-> karlp: if the stack pointer isn't valid on hardfault entry, you'll never get to the handler anyway
2024-08-13T19:16:57 < jpa-> (that firmware uses just single stack with MSP)
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2024-08-13T22:21:06 < catphish> it seems that ST recommend connecting high voltage AC directly to the STM32 via 300k of 2+ resistors, that's easy then :)
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--- Day changed ke elo 14 2024
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2024-08-14T04:15:32 < karlp> you definitely want to read your datasheets for the resistors if you're doing this seriously.
2024-08-14T04:15:44 < karlp> we used 3, special bourns hv resistors, 
2024-08-14T04:15:50 < karlp> the atmel ref designs used 6.
2024-08-14T04:16:09 < karlp> you can trade off cheap, multiple for less, fancier, and space tradeoffs as well.
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2024-08-14T13:42:17 < karlp> TIL strcspn exists
2024-08-14T13:42:23 < karlp> strspn too i guess, 
2024-08-14T13:57:35 < karlp> fuckin, another day, another "we started building common base products from a common repo, to reduce copy/paste erros and divergent bug fixes, but what we actually did was just put multiple copies of the same files in different parts of the same repo, and did divergent dev in the _same_ repo!"
2024-08-14T13:57:51 < karlp> such pro.
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2024-08-14T18:24:10 < ventYl> karlp: sounds so german
2024-08-14T18:35:07 < Ecco> Hi guys :)
2024-08-14T18:39:20 < Ecco> ok, mechanical question: I would like to design an IP68 enclosure. Would you guys recommend any litterature on the matter?
2024-08-14T19:13:58 < qyx> uh can I read a GPIO back when configured as AF?
2024-08-14T19:14:24 < qyx> I guess yes
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2024-08-14T21:03:13 < karlp> has anyone used the "cmsis driver" layer frrom any vendor?
2024-08-14T21:03:16 < karlp> is it any good?
2024-08-14T21:03:24 < karlp> or just "another layer of aids"?
2024-08-14T21:05:08 < fenugrec> AI-developped-software ? sounds promising
2024-08-14T21:06:11 < fenugrec> reminds me of that paper describing a paper-generating AI that can generate hundreds of "medium quality", usually wrong, papers. what an exciting time
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2024-08-14T23:09:32 < jbo> any SDIO / SDMMC experts alive?
2024-08-14T23:23:00 < Steffanx> No.
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2024-08-14T23:34:25 < catphish> karlp: my plan was to use 3 x 100k resistors, i'll certainly need to check the voltage rating of each though
2024-08-14T23:36:26 < qyx> 300k is pretty low for my liking, a short or misconfiguration on the GPIO dissipates up to 0.2 W which may fry something
2024-08-14T23:36:51 < qyx> you don't need such current to sense voltage only
2024-08-14T23:37:01 < qyx> if you don't plan to power the stm from it
2024-08-14T23:37:31 < catphish> the higher the better as far as i'm concerned, i have no desire to dissipate current, and the body diodes ARE a short circuit afaik
2024-08-14T23:37:50 < catphish> *dissipate any power
2024-08-14T23:38:24 < qyx> oh yes that's true in this case becase 230 to 3V3 is very comparable to 230 V to 0 V
2024-08-14T23:38:31 < catphish> rght
2024-08-14T23:38:38 < catphish> so yeah, i'd be dissipating 200mW (85mW per resistor) all the time
2024-08-14T23:39:10 < catphish> i basically want the currnt as low as possible to be able to maintain the 3v3
2024-08-14T23:39:40 < qyx> do you plan to use it for power?
2024-08-14T23:39:49 < catphish> no, it's just a GPIO input
2024-08-14T23:40:05 < catphish> so it only needs to be enough current to charge the GPIO input switc i guess
2024-08-14T23:40:18 < qyx> nah 3x 1meg or so
2024-08-14T23:40:24 < qyx> and yolo
2024-08-14T23:40:32 < qyx> compute pulldown accordingly
2024-08-14T23:41:25 < catphish> that's a good point, i want pulldown, but internal would be much too strong
2024-08-14T23:41:29 < qyx> maybe the internal one is about right, because 230V divided by 40k/3M is about 3 V which is enough to detect high
2024-08-14T23:41:48 < catphish> interesting
2024-08-14T23:42:11 < qyx> also you probably need some parallel cap to smooth 0-315 V swings to 230 V
2024-08-14T23:42:28 < qyx> and a diode
2024-08-14T23:42:41 < catphish> not really, i'm happy to sample AC in realtime
2024-08-14T23:43:12 < catphish> as long as some reasonable portion of the wave is detectable as high
2024-08-14T23:43:39 < catphish> what's the strength of a STM32 internal pulldown?
2024-08-14T23:43:55 < qyx> see the ds
2024-08-14T23:43:59 < qyx> 20-40k iirc?
2024-08-14T23:44:03 < qyx> or so
2024-08-14T23:44:06 < catphish> i'll check
2024-08-14T23:45:12 < catphish> 25k-55k on this chip
2024-08-14T23:46:34 < catphish> 30, peak is 339v 25k / 3M = 2.83V, you're definitely on the right track
2024-08-14T23:46:47 < catphish> s/30, //
2024-08-14T23:47:11 < catphish> so, peak is 339v * 25k / 3M = 2.83V, you're definitely on the right track
2024-08-14T23:48:55 < catphish> so if i change the resistance to 2M... that gives minimum of 2.1V when the AC waveform is above 50% of peak
2024-08-14T23:48:55 < catphish> 170×25000÷2000000 = 2.125V
2024-08-14T23:50:11 < qyx> 170*25000/2025000
2024-08-14T23:50:24 < qyx> but basically the same
2024-08-14T23:51:07 < catphish> 3 x 680k resistors gives 2.04M
2024-08-14T23:51:36 < catphish> oh yeah, i forgot to add on the 23k :)
2024-08-14T23:52:40 < catphish> but regardless, it's about 2M, which means about 30mW dissipation (10mW per resistor)
2024-08-14T23:52:49 < catphish> that's much more tolerable
2024-08-14T23:54:17 < catphish> the stm32 application note is designed for zero crossing detection, so i guess it uses much lower resistor values to activate as soon as the voltage rises 
2024-08-14T23:54:32 < catphish> whereas i really only need presence detection
2024-08-14T23:55:56 < catphish> qyx: thanks!
--- Day changed to elo 15 2024
2024-08-15T00:16:18 < karlp> just use the adc? 
2024-08-15T00:16:29 < karlp> which app note is this?
2024-08-15T00:28:54 < catphish> karlp: i think using the ADC would require external protection diodes
2024-08-15T00:29:20 < catphish> AN2263
2024-08-15T00:29:45 < catphish> it's about an ST7LITE but i am assuming the same concepts apply
2024-08-15T00:30:31 < catphish> page 14, zero crossing detection circuit
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2024-08-15T01:30:09 < qyx> liebe freunde, RM0440, TIM1_CR2, timer gating, master mode
2024-08-15T01:30:44 < qyx> I have a TIM1 CH4 channel connected to a sensor and I need to reroute it to another timer to capture using a different timebase
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2024-08-15T01:31:46 < qyx> do I understand it right that I can assert TRGO on CC1IF only and not on CC4IF?
2024-08-15T01:33:41 < qyx> I can't do any workaround because I need TIM1 for OC2 and OC3
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2024-08-15T12:21:17 < karlp> good ol st, can't find that document by name on their own website :)
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2024-08-15T15:31:57 < machinehum> Siemens is cancer
2024-08-15T15:57:53 < ventYl> *krebs
2024-08-15T15:57:58 < Steffanx> Too many hums or not enough hums?
2024-08-15T15:58:57 < machinehum> like 15GB of hums
2024-08-15T15:59:39 < machinehum> Installed on an OS, which has a disk requirement of 25GB, some some compeltely unknown reason
2024-08-15T16:00:09 < machinehum> On my vm running on my arch machine
2024-08-15T16:04:25 < Steffanx> Luckily your machine has hums. So it's not a real problem 
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2024-08-15T16:09:56 < machinehum> true
2024-08-15T16:10:56 < machinehum> You can't make this shit up
2024-08-15T16:11:07 < machinehum> The installer crashed and there's a crash log report
2024-08-15T16:11:15 < machinehum> How are people just okay with this
2024-08-15T16:22:58 < ventYl> which neat software of German provenience are you installing?
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2024-08-15T17:37:05 < jbo> toothpick
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2024-08-15T17:58:36 < machinehum> This PLC is about to go out the fucking window
2024-08-15T17:59:20 < machinehum> Fucking just use an ardumbo hot glued to a panel inside a control cabnet
2024-08-15T17:59:46 < jbo> PLCs work fundamentally different - for good reasons
2024-08-15T17:59:56 < jbo> s/different/differently
2024-08-15T18:00:13 < jbo> machinehum, why are you not at Gampel OpenAir? Half of switzerland is there rn.
2024-08-15T18:01:58 < machinehum> My wife is going to Canada for a few weeks and if I fucked off to a music festval right before she might not come back
2024-08-15T18:02:05 < machinehum> Also, I didn't know about it
2024-08-15T18:02:37 < jbo> it's literally 15 minutes away - surely you could just sneak out and back in on time
2024-08-15T18:04:18 < machinehum> Also a flu I had developed into a lung infection
2024-08-15T18:04:36 < jbo> Windows95Man is playing tonight - much eurovision
2024-08-15T18:04:47 < machinehum> Windows95Man lol
2024-08-15T18:06:14 < jbo> yeah it's jpa-
2024-08-15T18:06:24 < jbo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nidDtyS0Wo
2024-08-15T18:06:28 < jbo> showing his dong to everybody
2024-08-15T18:06:44 < machinehum> Oh I've already found the video
2024-08-15T18:33:47 < jbo> it's also why jpa- is not responding right now - he's getting ready for his dong showing show
2024-08-15T18:33:53 < jbo> backstage fappin
2024-08-15T18:35:12 < machinehum> ;o
2024-08-15T19:25:22 < Steffanx> It's only a true show when jbo joins
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2024-08-15T19:28:49 < Steffanx> Maybe I should visit jbo for a private show. Like old times
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2024-08-15T21:20:23 < jbo> the timeout values passed to crap like HAL_I2C_Master_Transmit - that is in milliseconds, yes?
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2024-08-15T21:29:24 < Steffanx> I think that's ticks.. but that's usually 1000 Hz. Especially when using the cube.
2024-08-15T21:30:21 < Steffanx> running at*
2024-08-15T21:42:09 < jbo> aye
2024-08-15T21:42:14 < jbo> I wish it would be documented reasonably well
2024-08-15T21:42:33 < jbo> both in-source code documentation (doxygen) and their dedicated HAL PDF just says "timeout duration"
2024-08-15T21:42:53 < jbo> and the same PDF states at the beginning that a timeout can either be in ticks or in milliseconds -__-
2024-08-15T21:42:59 < jbo> timeouts in general, that is 
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2024-08-15T21:48:10 < Steffanx> Yeah what to say..
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2024-08-15T21:48:29 < jbo> not sure if I'm getting old or if ST is just getting shittier 
2024-08-15T21:49:08 < ventYl> jbo: while you are second one I see today bitching about ST, latter is more probable
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2024-08-15T21:49:40 < jbo> I'm still recovering from the STM32MP1 incident from laster year I guess
2024-08-15T21:50:03 < jbo> jpa- dong show started a few minutes ago
2024-08-15T21:50:42 < ventYl> what did I forget to put into salat this time?
2024-08-15T21:51:35 < jbo> jpa-'s naked pp
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2024-08-15T22:16:21 < Steffanx> Why aren't you there jbo?
2024-08-15T22:16:30 < jbo> I got my own naked pp
2024-08-15T22:21:05 < Steffanx> Lol. What are you on today?
2024-08-15T22:21:23 < jbo> STM32
2024-08-15T22:42:47 < Steffanx> Even mawk doesn't do THAT
2024-08-15T22:58:52 < jbo> mawk doesn't suck as hard as I do
2024-08-15T23:08:43 < Steffanx> I feel sorry for you jbo. 
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--- Day changed pe elo 16 2024
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2024-08-16T02:25:54 < karlp> ok, my weird "trap on 'run' frrom gdb, unable to breakpoitn on resetisr?
2024-08-16T02:26:05 < karlp> I'm 99% sure it's browning out
2024-08-16T02:26:23 < karlp> that's why it' sonly happening at home, where I've got debugger and board running off a chained usb hub
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2024-08-16T04:51:35 < karlp> feckin nfc specs are _pay_?
2024-08-16T04:51:37 < karlp> fuckers
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2024-08-16T11:00:02 < qyx> Set the OCxNP bit in the TIMx_CCxMR register to '0'. This will ensure that the output is driven low on the update event.
2024-08-16T11:00:05 < qyx> the hell AI
2024-08-16T11:00:09 < qyx> what's that register
2024-08-16T11:01:25 < qyx> oh but there is OCnCE which could be helpful
2024-08-16T11:34:02 < qyx> I am dumb, PWM2 mode is exactly that
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2024-08-16T13:23:25 < mawk> do you want to do a sucking contest jbo 
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2024-08-16T17:06:33 < jbo> mawk, yes
2024-08-16T17:22:02 < BrainDamage> who is the judge?
2024-08-16T17:22:14 < jbo> jpa-'s naked pp
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2024-08-16T17:37:55 < machinehum> jbo: Still talking about jpa-'s pp eh?
2024-08-16T17:38:57 < machinehum> "STM32MP1 incident"
2024-08-16T17:47:54 < Steffanx> You know what MP means right? Majestic Pp
2024-08-16T17:48:07 < jbo> Mein PP
2024-08-16T17:48:32 < Steffanx> Habst du ein pp?
2024-08-16T17:48:43 < Steffanx> Eine, einen or whatever fits
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2024-08-16T20:01:43 < mawk> Steffanx: der Pimmel
2024-08-16T20:01:54 < mawk> und der Pimmelkopf
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2024-08-16T20:48:27 < jbo> seid ihr alle betrunken oder was?
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2024-08-16T20:55:57 < Steffanx> Aber naturlich meinherr jbo. Den ganzen Tag!!
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2024-08-17T23:04:21 < karlp> hrm, I think I have a problem with nfc.  I thought my nfc IC onboard could be used dual mode, both presenting as a tag to a phone, and being able to read tags presented to it.
2024-08-17T23:04:28 < karlp> but.... I think that has been a false assumption.
2024-08-17T23:04:57 < karlp> and therefore, likely a very false assumption when this board was designed...
2024-08-17T23:07:37 < qyx> which is is that
2024-08-17T23:07:52 < qyx> (not that I am nfc pro, just a mere rubber duck)
2024-08-17T23:10:04 < karlp> yah, we have https://www.nxp.com/part/NT3H2111W0FTT on board, which is _just_ a tag.  going to have to rethink some of the application ideas we were thinking of.
2024-08-17T23:10:11 < karlp> also, these tags I bought are now useless.
2024-08-17T23:10:36 < karlp> I was expecting this had been designed to be used with tags to bring a tag near the device to reprogram parameters, 
2024-08-17T23:10:44 < karlp> but no.... you'd need to do that with a phone instead.
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2024-08-17T23:39:01 < karlp> hrm, nxp's reader/emulator mode chips are pricyyyy
2024-08-17T23:39:12 < karlp> st25r series has them for ~$3 in singles.
2024-08-17T23:39:47 < karlp> radically different design though, changing to put a reader chip is swapping out a basicaly dumb so8 for a full 32pin qfn with a crystal of it's own and shits.
--- Day changed su elo 18 2024
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2024-08-18T00:45:51 < karlp> meh,android ignores all other records on a tag if one of them is the wifi credentials tag.
2024-08-18T00:48:09 < karlp> huh, same if it has a url that it recogniss.
2024-08-18T00:48:36 < karlp> if has an smb or somethign wild instead, it presents a new dialog with the text of all records instead.
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2024-08-18T01:15:45 < jbo> hi all
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2024-08-18T01:37:44 < zyp> karlp, how do you even confuse a tag for a reader?
2024-08-18T01:38:43 < zyp> nfc basically puts all the smarts in the reader so that tags can be as low complexity/cost as possible, so they can be used for throwaway shit
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2024-08-18T03:06:14 < karlp> zyp: because I didn't look at the hardware very much, just saw that it had an nfc antenna on it.
2024-08-18T03:06:39 < karlp> and I _presumed_ the intent was to be able to "do stuff" with it. because it's not mentioned in any product requirements or anything.
2024-08-18T03:06:43 < zyp> ah
2024-08-18T03:07:12 < karlp> and I modelled up some ideas on how I would use nfc tags to "tap to re-program packing modes/configs" for the scale.
2024-08-18T03:07:25 < karlp> but it just has a plain old tag ic, not a reader.
2024-08-18T03:07:32 < karlp> so I'm rethinking some of what could be done.
2024-08-18T03:08:21 < karlp> currently thing it will have a URI pointing to the onboard website, that I will upðdate from teh device side, a bluetooth pairing chunk, and will accept writes to a special type, that does some stuff.
2024-08-18T03:08:40 < karlp> so you can still reprogram it, but via a tagwriter app, or the website, rather than just tap to reprogram
2024-08-18T03:08:52 < karlp> might even make people think about what they were actually thinking of doing with the damn thing.
2024-08-18T03:15:54 < zyp> sounds like the usual deal
2024-08-18T03:16:12 < zyp> the nrf chips also contains built in tag hardware
2024-08-18T03:16:23 < zyp> I figure I need to play with it at some point
2024-08-18T03:16:34 < zyp> AIUI it's mostly used for the bluetooth pairing stuff
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2024-08-18T13:21:39 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/nahkahiiri.jpg   new mouse covering
2024-08-18T13:45:31 < qyx> such easy word for that complex piece of accessory
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2024-08-18T13:56:12 < Steffanx> Seems like you were being more productive than jbo suggested, jpa- 
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2024-08-18T14:03:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: yesterday was all lederhosen with jbo, today was ledermaus
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--- Day changed ma elo 19 2024
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2024-08-19T03:15:52 < qyx> any devop32 here?
2024-08-19T03:16:39 < qyx> for those of us living under a rock, what is the current hyped alternative to nagios/zabbix?
2024-08-19T03:16:58 < qyx> is prometheus cool enough?
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2024-08-19T10:51:18 < qyx> hm my RCC_CSR flags are always 0x0c000000 on G4
2024-08-19T10:51:31 < qyx> that's both NRST and BOR reset reason
2024-08-19T10:51:56 < qyx> but BOR is set even when nothinghappens
2024-08-19T11:22:25 < qyx> oh it is the default value
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2024-08-19T15:57:22 < machinehum> The arduino opta is really annoying
2024-08-19T15:57:51 < machinehum> It honestly could have been decent... but the only outputs are relays flopping all over the place
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2024-08-19T19:05:46 < karlp> TIl that digitally controllable caps are not wildly expensive.
2024-08-19T19:05:57 < karlp> and are even an option for automatic antenna tuning in nfc readers.
2024-08-19T19:07:29 < karlp> also, is mouser super slow recently for everyone or  just me?
2024-08-19T19:11:03 < qyx> search is slow
2024-08-19T19:11:50 < qyx> but depends on the phase of the day
2024-08-19T19:21:01 < karlp> hrm, wisesun ws1840 and ws1850 nfc front ends are pin compatible with old gen nxp mfrc522.  m5stack sells a part with the wisesun part, and links both wise sun and nxp parts as the "datasheet" :)
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2024-08-19T21:07:04 < machinehum> karlp: Do you have a pn for these digital caps?
2024-08-19T21:07:19 < machinehum> I want to take a look
2024-08-19T21:07:24 < machinehum> I've never heard of this
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2024-08-19T22:28:46 < karlp> just go to mouser https://eu.mouser.com/c/passive-components/capacitors/trimmer-variable-capacitors/
2024-08-19T22:29:03 < karlp> digital are cheaper tahn mechanical....
2024-08-19T22:29:19 < karlp> also, nfc smart poster, which associates a title with a url, is pointless.
2024-08-19T22:29:27 < karlp> phoens just present the url anyway and ignore the text.
2024-08-19T22:29:59 < qyx> are you a product manager now?
2024-08-19T22:30:04 < qyx> (again)
2024-08-19T22:30:31 < karlp> nah, I just had been looking forward to doing something new and educational, with the nfc part of this shitbox.
2024-08-19T22:30:46 < karlp> the rest of it is just wrangling this pile of legacy code as best I can.
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2024-08-19T23:36:36 < machinehum> ty karlp 
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--- Day changed ti elo 20 2024
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2024-08-20T01:13:40 < zyp> karlp, yeah, I saw some of ST's most fancy NFC readers also use those digital caps
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2024-08-20T02:30:03 < karlp> zyp: tht's where I saw it mentioned, was having a quick skim of some literature :)
2024-08-20T02:30:43 < karlp> on the next page it says, "oh, you can also use this other thing, and not have to use varicaps, whichmakes for a cheaper solution" but still neat that it' sjust built in functionality
2024-08-20T02:30:57 < karlp> some ofthe reader chips have _soooo_ much more tuning options available :)
2024-08-20T02:31:01 < karlp> like, I understand it, but, wow.
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2024-08-20T12:15:31 < karlp> this is awesome: pc sampling on esp32-s3 via undocumented features: https://review.openocd.org/c/openocd/+/8431
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2024-08-20T12:20:34 < karlp> lame that cadence is like, "umm, ok, yeah, that works, but.... um, please dont' label it as cadence, we're not guaranteeing it will be on all xtensa..."
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2024-08-20T13:44:24 < karlp> curious on people's opinions this sort oc change though: https://review.openocd.org/c/openocd/+/8459
2024-08-20T13:44:47 < karlp> yes, the compiler can follow consts, but the const attr helps if someone starts modifying code and attempts to write to things, right?
2024-08-20T13:45:05 < karlp> removing it seems like "I drive good, so I don't need airbags or seatbelts" ?
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2024-08-20T14:54:47 < c10ud> changing for the sake of changing is almost-always wrong
2024-08-20T14:59:39 < qyx> I am changing now
2024-08-20T15:31:05 < karlp> ali seller has claimed that "devliery to linehaul office" counts as delivered.
2024-08-20T15:31:30 < karlp> post service here recognises that a parcel has been created, but it's had no updates since june 20.
2024-08-20T15:31:45 < karlp> now I get to wait for ali to step in.
2024-08-20T16:12:05 -!- SystemError is now known as System_Error
2024-08-20T16:13:17 < machinehum> Are there any open hardware RK3588 boards?
2024-08-20T16:32:51 < karlp> feckin, took a rigol 932 from another desk of someone who quit, thought it would be an "upgrade" from my korad 3005p, and it's like... no?
2024-08-20T16:33:07 < karlp> I can graph power now, and see watts on the screen at the same time, but it only has 10mA current resolution readout?
2024-08-20T16:33:34 < karlp> dp712 another guys has is the same.
2024-08-20T16:34:04 < karlp> wayyyyy bigger too
2024-08-20T16:56:36 < Steffanx> Is it also more noisy?
2024-08-20T16:56:48 < Steffanx> as in audible noise
2024-08-20T17:34:07 < ventYl> machinehum: pine64 quartzpro64, although I am not 100% sure on SW support
2024-08-20T17:47:18 < machinehum> Gerbers as well?
2024-08-20T17:57:07 < ventYl> machinehum: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/QuartzPro64#Documentation
2024-08-20T17:57:19 < ventYl> you can probably get them
2024-08-20T18:37:51 < karlp> Steffanx: similarly noisy.
2024-08-20T18:38:11 < karlp> i now get a nice graph of recent consumption, and second chan + aux, but... not really convinced :)
2024-08-20T18:38:38 < karlp> I mean, this thing is fucking useless for sourcing a low power device.
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2024-08-20T21:02:43 < antto> if you run a H723 with external crystal, set up at its max frequency (per datasheet), and if you then generate another clock from that with one of those PLL things - can that clock be sent out on a pin?
2024-08-20T21:06:30 < antto> that is, 25MHz external crystal, MCU runs from it at 550MHz, but also generates supposedly a 24.576MHz clock and sends it out on a pin..
2024-08-20T21:08:38 < Steffanx> Does the H723 have the mco pin?
2024-08-20T21:10:15 < Steffanx> Oh it probably cannot output this freq.  
2024-08-20T21:11:56 < antto> no idea, i do see "MCO1" and "MCO2" in a table with pins
2024-08-20T21:12:36 < antto> PA08 and PC09
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2024-08-20T21:20:29 < Steffanx> The cube can sometimes be helpful when you dont want to read the manuals: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qm5nrATG/image.png
2024-08-20T21:20:39 < Steffanx> Those are are the sources for mco1/2
2024-08-20T21:24:08 < antto> i have the cube on my other machine which is currently powered off
2024-08-20T21:25:10 < antto> so.. it might work?
2024-08-20T21:25:57 < Steffanx> idk, how you generate the 24.576? What are the multipliers/dividers?
2024-08-20T21:27:05 < antto> currently i don't, this wasn't part of the plan at all, i just thought about it today
2024-08-20T21:28:55 < antto> the plan was to run the H723 with a "nice" crystal so i can get the 550MHz maximum freq, but since it doesn't have another external crystal, i decided to make my audio codec I2S m*ster, and the MCU would be I2S sl*ve
2024-08-20T21:29:13 < antto> thus i slapped a 24.576MHz _oscillator_ on the audio codec
2024-08-20T21:29:41 < antto> with the ENable pin of the oscillator controlled by the MCU
2024-08-20T21:30:19 < antto> with this frequency i will be able to get a few different sampling rates
2024-08-20T21:30:39 < antto> not super flexible.. but oh well
2024-08-20T21:31:57 < antto> however, now i thought about... if i can generate another clock signal from the MCU, i could add it as an alternative to the audio codec, basically i'll feed the oscillator and the clock from the MCU thru 0R resistors into the audio codec, so i'll populate only one of the resistors
2024-08-20T21:32:52 < antto> if the oscillator scheme isn't flexible enough i could move the resistor and try generating an audio-grade frequency with the MCU... at least this was my idea
2024-08-20T21:33:27 < antto> if it happens to be possible, if not, i'll have taken one pin with one resistor that does nothing, not a big deal
2024-08-20T21:35:34 < antto> i think i see MCO2 is on PC09, and i don't use it for anything yet
2024-08-20T22:03:10 < qyx> did you check i2s pll for that purpose?
2024-08-20T22:03:43 < qyx> I also tried to generate those fractional audio frequencies in the past and failed
2024-08-20T22:45:51 < Steffanx> so my esp-cam is up and running, was easy enough, qyx.
2024-08-20T22:47:25 < Steffanx> Such wonderful tool, esphome
2024-08-20T23:02:38 < benishor> https://9gag.com/gag/aByWdeO?utm_source=Whatsapp&utm_medium=post_share
2024-08-20T23:02:45 < antto> qyx, i don't remember, but note: i don't want to feed the clock into the MCU periph, i want to send it to the audio codec
2024-08-20T23:03:08 < antto> as for the periph, i'll be using the SAI, because the I2S periph seems kinda poor
2024-08-20T23:03:19 < antto> it'll be in sl*ve mode
2024-08-20T23:03:40 < antto> this way i don't need the MCU to deal with MCK
2024-08-20T23:04:09 < qyx> Steffanx: yes
2024-08-20T23:04:11 < qyx> antto: yes
2024-08-20T23:05:14 < qyx> Steffanx: that firebeetle was a bit more involved because they included some chink PMIC without support in esphome so I had to writesome low level ardweeno code to send a couple of bytes over i2c
2024-08-20T23:05:58 < qyx> but overall I am not satisfied with esp32+camera because of the poor quality to power ratio
2024-08-20T23:06:10 < qyx> rpi zero is much better in that regard
2024-08-20T23:06:24 < antto> aww, of course, PC09 is gonna be on the opposite side of the chip of where all my I2S signals come out
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2024-08-20T23:07:21 < qyx> I want to do mipi-csi to dcmi bridge + U5 + some hyperbus dram to capture 5-8 mpix camera and encode in software
2024-08-20T23:07:32 < antto> btw, will ST be doing cortex-M85?
2024-08-20T23:07:42 < qyx> that ov2640/5640 jpeg codecs are mediocre
2024-08-20T23:07:42 < antto> if anyone happens to know ;P~
2024-08-20T23:16:13 < qyx> Steffanx: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/XT8dx
2024-08-20T23:37:27 < qyx> nah I just accidentally a whole chocolate
2024-08-20T23:52:35 < Steffanx> Oh doesn't look too bad, qyx
2024-08-20T23:59:21 < qyx> indeed it does
2024-08-20T23:59:43 < qyx> you mean the code or quality?
--- Day changed ke elo 21 2024
2024-08-21T00:19:22 < karlp> whee, that's cute, lambda in esphome yaml to just bolt in arduino calls? 
2024-08-21T00:19:30 < karlp> powerful, but wow. fabulous
2024-08-21T00:20:09 < qyx> and you can see the include too
2024-08-21T00:20:14 < qyx> let's guess what's inside
2024-08-21T00:20:35 < qyx> qyx@esphome:~/firebeetle2$ cat inc_wire.h 
2024-08-21T00:20:35 < qyx> #include <Wire.h>
2024-08-21T00:20:43 < karlp> oh god.
2024-08-21T00:20:53 < karlp> wow. this is like myspace php editing.
2024-08-21T00:21:01 < karlp> snippysnip snip pasta
2024-08-21T00:21:13 < qyx> it doesn't work if included directly because reasons
2024-08-21T00:21:17 < qyx> took me a while to debug that
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2024-08-21T00:30:31 < upgrdman> just got my mpg321urx monitor... holy shit. 4k240 is magical.
2024-08-21T00:30:57 < upgrdman> and i dont think my mouse even has a high enough report rate to really do 240hz
2024-08-21T00:32:50 < upgrdman> and TelemetryViewer at 4k240 looks so nice :) shit, now i need to add more features to exploit this
2024-08-21T00:37:59 < qyx> if I have two fullhd@75Hz, does it count as 4K@150Hz?
2024-08-21T00:38:25 < upgrdman> lol no
2024-08-21T00:38:26 < qyx> oh no, I would need 4
2024-08-21T00:38:31 < upgrdman> how does it feel to be poor?
2024-08-21T00:39:09 < qyx> I don't want anything bigger, I deliberately bought two 24"
2024-08-21T00:39:18 < qyx> I have a shelf above them
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2024-08-21T01:25:48 < qyx> if I wanted a ready-made IC for ethernet->rs485 bridge, what would you recommend
2024-08-21T01:27:38 < qyx> wiznet pls, I want 10base-t1s, gimme RMII
2024-08-21T01:29:46 < qyx> or esp32
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2024-08-21T01:56:00 < karlp> lol
2024-08-21T01:56:09 < karlp> ready made?! are you fucking serious?
2024-08-21T01:56:20 < karlp> this is a product, the lifeblood of dozens of automation companies
2024-08-21T01:56:35 < karlp> selling modbus tcp/rtu gateways devices and "rtu extender" devices
2024-08-21T02:05:28 < qyx> that's a really sad state of the world
2024-08-21T02:06:45 < karlp> but really, you want a _chip_ solution fo rhtis?
2024-08-21T02:07:13 < karlp> I have the AGM for my defunct company next week, I'm goign to ask what we're doing with old "legacy" sw.
2024-08-21T02:07:27 < karlp> it's pretty niche.
2024-08-21T02:07:52 < karlp> I mena, how the fuck would chip solution even look?
2024-08-21T02:10:50 < qyx> exactly like a wiznet o e
2024-08-21T02:11:15 < qyx> ethernet on one side, tcp-serial bridge inside, rs485 transceiver on the other side
2024-08-21T02:11:30 < qyx> except that wiznet has integrated phy
2024-08-21T02:12:16 < qyx> because I don't want to deal with any software but apparently I will be forced to
2024-08-21T02:12:46 < qyx> I would use imx6 if I wasn't requiring low power
2024-08-21T02:12:58 < qyx> not that the wiznet thing is exceptionally low power
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2024-08-21T02:26:06 < karlp> cmon, you want, what, rmii to rs485? the fuck?
2024-08-21T02:26:19 < karlp> the "register config" would be as bad as any software.
2024-08-21T02:27:33 < qyx> I HATE software
2024-08-21T02:30:09 < qyx> anyway, time to make some fast PCBs to make Steffanx happy
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2024-08-21T08:16:00 < jpa-> qyx: just take random STM32 and ask chatgpt for the firmware
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2024-08-21T10:19:27 < Steffanx> The yaml qyx. The quality of the camera is as expected: so-so, but good enough.
2024-08-21T10:21:33 < Steffanx> Also you pumping out PCBs like crazy doesn't make me happy 
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2024-08-21T10:35:59 < zyp> qyx, you want an ethernet chip without a PHY, that's just every highend microcontroller ever
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2024-08-21T12:18:42 < mawk> [01:27:33] <qyx> I HATE software
2024-08-21T12:18:44 < mawk> such nonsense
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2024-08-21T14:24:40 < BrainDamage> you hate computers too mawk, they make solving most your little problems trivial
2024-08-21T14:38:10 < mawk> sometimes
2024-08-21T14:38:13 < mawk> but not always
2024-08-21T14:38:20 < mawk> I have a special list of problems that computers can't solve
2024-08-21T14:38:39 < mawk> try this one BrainDamage https://projecteuler.net/problem=318
2024-08-21T14:38:42 < mawk> it needs a computer, for once
2024-08-21T14:39:05 < mawk> and a computer does not solve a problem until it provides a valid proof
2024-08-21T14:39:30 < mawk> so computers can provide a valid hypothesis to a calculatory problem, but usually not solve it
2024-08-21T14:39:36 < mawk> unless it's a counter-example problem
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2024-08-21T20:42:24 < qyx> We are currently working to fix an issue affecting the performance of our website. We apologise for any inconvenience and expect to have the problem resolved very soon.
2024-08-21T20:42:27 < qyx> why mouser
2024-08-21T20:42:27 < qyx> why
2024-08-21T20:42:53 < qyx> performance issue = I am not able to search for anything?
2024-08-21T20:53:30 < aandrew> if that's true mouser has been buggy for years
2024-08-21T20:53:38 < aandrew> their search is so shit compared to digikey
2024-08-21T20:54:23 < aandrew> my usual workflow is to use digikey to figure out what I'm after, then compare prices on mouser/avnet/etc. probably 80-85% of the time digikey has (slightly) better pricing, but there are some pockets I've found where mouser's price is considerably cheaper (or considerably more expensive)
2024-08-21T20:54:41 < aandrew> it's usually only on larger purchases that it makes sense to split the buy across both 
2024-08-21T20:57:00 < jpa-> but sometimes mouser has products that digikey doesn't
2024-08-21T20:58:14 < jpa-> or digikey categorizes weird, like those trimmer caps karlp linked yesterday are just "RF Misc ICs and Modules"
2024-08-21T21:00:10 < aandrew> yep totally, that's why I comparison shop. You're not often surprised but sometimes it's worth it
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2024-08-21T21:08:59 < jbo> has anybody here used the DFSDM peripheral before?
2024-08-21T21:09:25 < jbo> I'm trying to record from a PDM MEMS microphone and I am failing at even seeing a clock on my scope
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2024-08-22T02:00:56 < karlp> digikey ui went to shit a few years back, and, importantly, they have no free shipping option to iceland, so... dead to me.
2024-08-22T02:01:15 < karlp> for cheap shit these days, it's search on jlcpcb/parts and build from there :)
2024-08-22T02:08:14 < aandrew> oh yeah I remember that, it suuuuuuuucked
2024-08-22T02:08:29 < aandrew> they were also bringing in that godforsaken marketplace bullshit at the same time
2024-08-22T02:09:20 < aandrew> yeah I've been "tuning" my stuff to use more LCSC parts and seeing if I'll just use their assembly service for more stuff
2024-08-22T02:20:38 < karlp> we actually got jlc registerd as a supplier at work recently :)
2024-08-22T02:20:44 < karlp> now we can even do short runsthere, not just protos
2024-08-22T03:46:49 < aandrew> nice
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2024-08-22T04:58:33 < qyx> do I understand it right that for RMII slave mode, I need to get 50 MHz clock somehow and feed it both to XIN of PHY and REFCLK of STM32?
2024-08-22T04:59:07 < qyx> and for RMII master mode, I put 25MHz XTAL on my PHY and use CLKOUT of PHY to connect to REFCLK of STM32?
2024-08-22T05:10:35 < qyx> yes
2024-08-22T05:19:53 < qyx> oh and those refclks should be length matched
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2024-08-22T08:16:26 < jpa-> qyx: i usually feed PHY 25MHz from STM32 MCO, and the PHY then generates and feeds REFCLK back to STM32
2024-08-22T08:17:20 < jpa-> that avoids any clock distribution problems with passing a single clock to two chips
2024-08-22T08:19:51 < jpa-> i haven't done length matching on REFCLK
2024-08-22T08:20:33 < jpa-> probably doesn't really matter for 100 Mbps and gigabit has separate tx/rx clocks
2024-08-22T08:20:41 < qyx> I always just used a rystal on the phy
2024-08-22T08:20:42 < jpa-> because you couldn't really length match REFCLK in both directions
2024-08-22T08:21:28 < qyx> idk if this particular phy even supports rmii master mode because it doesn't have XOUT
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2024-08-22T09:39:26 < zyp> there's limits to how accurately length needs to match for a 50MHz SDR signal
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2024-08-22T12:37:57 < karlp> (wrt to jlc, we're still just using the same old parts as before, you can order from mouser/digikey and shhip there, and just dumb moneyd westerner use the same old parts you were using)
2024-08-22T12:38:14 < karlp> they hold all the stock for you and everything. works pretty well.
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2024-08-22T14:36:04 < qyx> jpa-: but still I don't get it, I would expect txd and clock have to be length matched and then rxd and refclk or whatever, but why matching the length from the clock source to both mac and phy? then it still depends how long txd/rxd traces are
2024-08-22T14:38:38 < zyp> qyx, huh?
2024-08-22T14:38:59 < zyp> all RMII signals are synchronous to REF_CLK, regardless of which side they originate from
2024-08-22T14:39:54 < zyp> so for the receiving side to stay in sync with the transmitting side, they both need to get the REF_CLK edge within a reasonable window
2024-08-22T14:40:17 < zyp> but like I said, it's a 50MHz SDR signal
2024-08-22T14:46:33 < zyp> ksz8081 says its RMII timings are 4ns setup, 2ns hold, 7-13ns output delay, so that sounds like a worst case margin of at least 3ns 
2024-08-22T14:47:26 < zyp> c * 3ns is approximately 90cm
2024-08-22T15:12:38 < qyx> that's all understood, the question is why microchip says you have to length match len(osc->phy_xin) = len(osc->mac_ref_clk)
2024-08-22T15:13:05 < qyx> because it doesn't have any sense, you just wrote it
2024-08-22T15:13:08 < zyp> where do they say that?
2024-08-22T15:14:14 < qyx> Figure 6-13. of LAN8670 datasheet
2024-08-22T15:14:20 < qyx> LAYOUT NOTE: 50MHz_LAN and 50MHz_MAC
2024-08-22T15:14:20 < qyx> PCB traces should be length matched.
2024-08-22T15:14:55 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/datasheet/2/268/LAN8670_1_2_Data_Sheet_60001573-3394974.pdf
2024-08-22T15:15:41 < qyx> or fig 6-15
2024-08-22T15:16:14 < zyp> yeah, fuck that
2024-08-22T15:16:56 < qyx> bikesheeding much because my traces are 2 cm anyway
2024-08-22T15:17:00 < qyx> but it still interested me
2024-08-22T15:18:05 < zyp> «should be length matched» is underspecified in any case, any useful length matching requirements must state a tolerance
2024-08-22T15:18:27 < zyp> your traces are length matched to a tolerance within 20mm
2024-08-22T15:31:15 < BrainDamage> wavelength/10 will give you a 10% error, which will keep most things working
2024-08-22T15:31:32 < BrainDamage> but it's not linear, it goes with atan, so don't go much past that
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2024-08-22T15:33:29 < BrainDamage> for the max frequency, 2/trise is the right value for square waves
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2024-08-22T15:37:24 < qyx> more immediate issue now is the cold in my nerd cave
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2024-08-22T15:55:44 < jpa-> qyx: doing it the microchip way minimizes the timing offset but is not really needed
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2024-08-22T16:58:37 < jbo> hey
2024-08-22T17:06:37 < qyx> I have a 1CT:1CT transformer PH9085.011NLT with a standard circuit like https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rgnyo/Screenshot_2024-08-22_16-02-57.png
2024-08-22T17:08:11 < qyx> now, those transformer drivers are $$$ so I want to replace them with some generic drivers/gate drivers
2024-08-22T17:08:58 < qyx> the question is, now it is 1:1, if I change the topology from push-pull to half bridge, I need 1:2, right?
2024-08-22T17:10:29 < qyx> because now I have full primary voltage across a half-winding, with half-bridge I have full voltage across a full-winding
2024-08-22T17:10:53 < qyx> oh no
2024-08-22T17:11:08 < qyx> nope, I have half-voltage over a full-winding because of the series cap
2024-08-22T17:11:15 < qyx> so I need 1:4
2024-08-22T17:11:20 < qyx> thank you
2024-08-22T17:13:56 < jpa-> qyx: how would you do it with a half bridge? won't it short one of the coils?
2024-08-22T17:15:03 < jpa-> or do you mean converting it fully to half bridge converter, adding the caps and output inductor?
2024-08-22T17:16:08 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wLViy/Screenshot_2024-08-22_16-15-53.png
2024-08-22T17:16:30 < qyx> no, secondary stays the same
2024-08-22T17:18:14 < jpa-> ok, i guess it is equivalent
2024-08-22T17:18:35 < jpa-> some current spikes without the output inductor but i guess for low power that doesn't matter
2024-08-22T17:19:03 < qyx> what's the purpose of toe output inductor actually
2024-08-22T17:19:14 < qyx> sometimes it is there, sometimes not
2024-08-22T17:19:49 < jpa-> when you switch the input voltage, there is a transient in the output voltage and the diode starts conducting with a current spike
2024-08-22T17:19:57 < jpa-> gives some nasty EMI
2024-08-22T17:20:15 < jpa-> with the output inductor (or a leaky transformer) you get a smoother current waveform
2024-08-22T17:20:36 < qyx> ok I though there is some more voodoo involved
2024-08-22T17:21:26 < qyx> now the question is, 1:1, 1:2 or 1:4?
2024-08-22T17:21:32 < qyx> the first one is ruled out
2024-08-22T17:22:50 < qyx> maybe I can fix that with a full wave rectifier
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2024-08-22T18:12:50 < Ecco> Hey, what do you all think of the nRF52 chips?
2024-08-22T18:13:45  * qyx never used them
2024-08-22T18:13:58  * jbo used them sometimes
2024-08-22T18:14:19 < jbo> nRF52840 I did a few years ago
2024-08-22T18:15:53 < Ecco> Hi jbo :)
2024-08-22T18:16:19 < Ecco> Apparently they have a newer version that uses even less power nRF54L15
2024-08-22T18:16:33 < Ecco> They don't publish any datasheet tho? That's weird
2024-08-22T18:16:51 < Ecco> How is bluetooth handled on nrf52?
2024-08-22T18:17:02 < Ecco> Do they have a separate core running a proprietary blob?
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2024-08-22T18:59:08 < Ecco> Apparently yeah, those are called SoftDevice in Nordic's lingo
2024-08-22T18:59:51 < Ecco> (well, it doesn't run on a separate core. It's pretty much just a software library)
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2024-08-22T19:13:19 < zyp> I'm doing a bunch of nrf52 at work, it's fairly nice
2024-08-22T19:14:02 < Ecco> how would you compare the chips to STM32 ?
2024-08-22T19:14:06 < zyp> I haven't been dealing directly with the softdevice though, other people do that
2024-08-22T19:14:11 < Ecco> ok, gotcha
2024-08-22T19:14:21 < zyp> hmm
2024-08-22T19:14:28 < zyp> some advantages, some disadvantages
2024-08-22T19:14:32 < Ecco> How would you explain their insane marketshare for BLE?
2024-08-22T19:14:51 < zyp> they make nice energy-efficient chips
2024-08-22T19:16:03 < zyp> I typically see average power consumption on the order of 1-10 uA on the low power stuff I work on
2024-08-22T19:16:03 < Ecco> ok
2024-08-22T19:16:12 < Ecco> oh wow, that's good
2024-08-22T19:16:42 < zyp> that's with BLE advertisements enabled and so on
2024-08-22T19:17:05 < zyp> i.e. effectively communicating every second or so
2024-08-22T19:17:23 < ds2> when I last used them, their stack was pretty stable compared to the other options
2024-08-22T19:17:56 < Ecco> Do you think going for STM32WBA is stupid?
2024-08-22T19:18:20 < ds2> and softdefice is a little bit more then a library.. it runs in this ad hoc supervisor mode even though it isn't a supervisor mode
2024-08-22T19:18:21 < zyp> no
2024-08-22T19:19:11 < Ecco> ds2: oh ok interesting :)
2024-08-22T19:19:30 < zyp> I don't know both nrf52 and stm32wba enough in depth to say anything about which is better
2024-08-22T19:19:48 < Ecco> STM32WBA seems similar, but I'm always wary of vendor-supplied software. I feel like people who know how to craft silicon often don't know how to do software right
2024-08-22T19:20:07 < ds2> you don't have to use the vendor supplied stack
2024-08-22T19:20:15 < Ecco> really?
2024-08-22T19:20:17 < ds2> the radio is documented
2024-08-22T19:20:37 < Ecco> on stm32wba it's not, so +1 for nRF I guess
2024-08-22T19:20:44 < ds2> it can even run the proprietary only nRF24xx protocols
2024-08-22T19:20:53 < ds2> or be loaded for ANT support
2024-08-22T19:21:29 < zyp> if we look away from the radio and consider them as generic MCUs, stm32s tends to have more peripherals, while nrf52 have some that are more flexible
2024-08-22T19:21:39 < ds2> for bring up, I have a stub code that just transits a carrier so I can verify antennas
2024-08-22T19:21:50 < zyp> e.g. nrf52 GPIO can put almost any function on any pin
2024-08-22T19:22:21 < zyp> but tops out at like 48 GPIOs
2024-08-22T19:22:26 < Ecco> oh, ok, interesting
2024-08-22T19:22:54 < ds2> can the stm32 do the no CPU LED blink?
2024-08-22T19:22:55 < zyp> so people at work tends to use i2c io expanders a bunch, for stuff where I'd just pick a larger pin count stm32
2024-08-22T19:23:28 < Ecco> ds2: like using a hardware timer? I guess it's possible?
2024-08-22T19:23:45 < Ecco> zyp: interesting
2024-08-22T19:24:12 < ds2> Ecco: timer + DMA... it is one of their first "low power" demos they show at their seminars
2024-08-22T19:24:32 < Ecco> yeah, ok
2024-08-22T19:24:49 < Ecco> seems very ad-hoc tho :)
2024-08-22T19:53:40 < jbo> Ecco, I switched from STM32WBA to nRF52 in a project a few years ago. Nordic was the much nicer experience overall
2024-08-22T19:54:47 < jbo> not sure how it is right now but at least back then STM32W stuff was extremely unstable. it would work for a few hours, then suddenly drop out, and recover. and so on. sure, can blame myself but... seems to align with what other people experienced too.
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2024-08-22T20:12:01 < Steffanx> Nowadays you must like Zephyr to like nRF..
2024-08-22T20:12:37 < Steffanx> It's pretty much the only thing they actively work on.
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2024-08-22T20:20:06 < Steffanx> Ofcourse you can try using the old sdk or something not by Nordic, but.. 
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2024-08-22T21:09:48 < jbo> do STM32 people usually not use a hardware timer for systick anymore these days?
2024-08-22T21:10:03 < jbo> I am looking at cube generated cancer and it looks like it's not using a timer? or am I missing something?
2024-08-22T21:11:47 < jbo> surely this would use the SysTick hardware timer, right?
2024-08-22T21:16:40 < octorian> Unless its using SysTick for the RTOS and a hardware timer for HAL, or vice versa.
2024-08-22T21:19:08 < octorian> So it looks like my attempt at using an "isolated" FT232 dongle for EFT test logging still isn't acting as "isolated" as I'd hoped.  The EFT pulses are still managing to reset the dongle and/or USB port/hub upstream from it.
2024-08-22T21:19:26 < octorian> (But at least its not causing the target to reset, like the ST-Link ISOL was)
2024-08-22T21:20:23 < octorian> However, I'm also no longer able to reproduce the issues I was trying to use this to debug.  My code recovers from the events quite well today.
2024-08-22T21:21:05 < octorian> Maybe I just need to defensively try to handle a few more error cases that I can't easily reproduce, and hope for the best once I'm testing against a higher quality EMC lab setup.
2024-08-22T21:22:09 < octorian> Something about these EFT pulses is just managing to couple around and through everything, making my filter attempts feel futile.
2024-08-22T21:22:45 < Steffanx> Im glad we can do many of the EMC tests in house soonish.. I dont like to drive hours for some basics tests. Not sure if EFT is one of them though
2024-08-22T21:23:08 < Steffanx> and ive the same experience with isolated USB devices.
2024-08-22T21:23:56 < Steffanx> Not the target resets, but usb resets.
2024-08-22T21:25:48 < octorian> I'm paranoid about EMC, because I don't like unexpected expensive failures.  I built up a whole collection of TekBox toys a while back.
2024-08-22T21:26:34 < octorian> EFT is something I'm a bit newer to caring about.  Because I ran into a few realistic use cases that were likely causing EFT problems.
2024-08-22T21:26:58 < octorian> Surviving those cases isn't too hard.  Its the lab tests I'm now more worried about.
2024-08-22T21:27:53 < octorian> Got myself an old Schaffner NSG 1025 off eBay as a way of making those tests a bit more consistent and repeatable, but there's always the chance its out of cal and doing something it shouldn't.
2024-08-22T21:28:33 < octorian> Though it seems like USB is far more susceptible to EFT issues than anything else in the system.
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2024-08-22T21:46:35 < qyx> jbo: tickless rtos may as well just use the rtc
2024-08-22T21:55:18 < jbo> aye
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2024-08-22T23:21:42 < qyx> cube killed my firefox
2024-08-22T23:37:53 < Steffanx> Uh what?
2024-08-22T23:41:41 < qyx> [3044456.534685] Out of memory: Killed process 1347685 (firefox-bin)
2024-08-22T23:42:09 < qyx> java ate the wham
2024-08-22T23:43:06 < Steffanx> Need more dedotated wham..
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--- Day changed pe elo 23 2024
2024-08-23T00:36:06 < karlp> re nrf5x: "josHua
2024-08-23T00:36:08 < karlp>  — 
2024-08-23T00:36:10 < karlp> Today at 3:59 AM
2024-08-23T00:36:12 < karlp> my experience with nRF53 so far is enough to make me say 'going forward, anything but Nordic', which is a far cry from my experience with nRF52, which is 'the development experience is so good that I would pay a price premium in volume fo rit'
2024-08-23T00:37:39 < zyp> yeah, I saw that
2024-08-23T00:38:34 < zyp> work decided to skip nrf53 and consider jumping directly to nrf54 later, so I don't have any experience to compare
2024-08-23T00:39:09 < zyp> on paper nrf53 looks great though
2024-08-23T00:39:29 < ventYl> how can anything be worse than nrf52?
2024-08-23T00:39:29 < karlp> yeah, I skipped nrf52 for analog consumpiton reasons, nrf53 wasn't ready, and now I just do nothing but moan about legacy wank software.
2024-08-23T00:40:07 < ventYl> you can't make even SPI working without at least two workarounds
2024-08-23T00:41:04 -!- NEYi [~NEYi@195.234.78.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2024-08-23T00:41:17 < karlp> (eruptions back on      ain)
2024-08-23T00:46:19 < qyx> where?
2024-08-23T00:46:32 < qyx> ground is shakin'?
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2024-08-23T01:26:36  * qyx @ Chicane - Saltwater
2024-08-23T01:26:41 < qyx> haven't heard this for a very long time
2024-08-23T01:34:29 < karlp> basicalyl right on top of the last one.
2024-08-23T01:35:09 < qyx> ahd what are the grindavik people doing? still evacuated or retirned?
2024-08-23T01:35:29 < karlp> the handful that keep insisting they should live there were evac'd again
2024-08-23T01:37:26 < qyx> k adding "risk of a volcano erruption" on my checklist for the future when I am searching for a new place to live
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2024-08-23T13:12:54 < llc_technologies> Hy guys
2024-08-23T13:13:07 < llc_technologies> I'm very bored
2024-08-23T13:13:22 < llc_technologies> if someone need an advice feel free to ask
2024-08-23T13:20:30 < lemmi> any advice on not feeling bored?
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2024-08-23T13:27:13 < zyp> pick your favorite stm32, read its reference manual from start to end
2024-08-23T13:27:18 < zyp> that should keep you busy for a while
2024-08-23T13:34:55 < llc_technologies> ahahahahah
2024-08-23T13:35:01 < llc_technologies> thanks guys
2024-08-23T13:35:24 < llc_technologies> I mean if u need an help on some projects
2024-08-23T13:35:44 < llc_technologies> feel free to ask advice about
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2024-08-23T14:28:31 < qyx> what was that about
2024-08-23T14:41:30 < Steffanx> He was bored.
2024-08-23T14:41:32 < Steffanx> Or she
2024-08-23T14:41:37 < Steffanx> Or they
2024-08-23T14:49:19 < qyx> as I said recently there is lack of true innovation
2024-08-23T14:49:25 < qyx> and people get bored
2024-08-23T14:50:55 < Steffanx> I also know about people innovating so much, they stop sleeping properly 
2024-08-23T14:56:07 < qyx> I don't know any
2024-08-23T15:11:36 < jpa-> my three month vacation is coming to end, innovation begins in 1.5 weeks
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2024-08-23T15:39:37 < karlp> did llc_tech turn up, say, "feel free to ask me stuff!" and then leave?
2024-08-23T15:58:48 < jpa-> yes
2024-08-23T15:59:00 < jpa-> at least it wasn't the typical "ask question, leave"
2024-08-23T16:14:19 < BrainDamage> too bad we didn't have that, they'd have been a good match
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2024-08-23T17:20:42 < jbo> hoi
2024-08-23T17:29:46 < Steffanx> Hallo
2024-08-23T17:35:00 < jbo> wie geht es dir mein liebster?
2024-08-23T17:54:17 < Steffanx> Viel gut, und mit dir jbo?
2024-08-23T17:54:39 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2024-08-23T18:29:29 < jbo> so gut
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2024-08-23T19:38:40 < Steffanx> Danke meinherr jbo
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2024-08-23T22:44:42 < zyp> sånn er det
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--- Day changed la elo 24 2024
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2024-08-24T02:12:02 < qyx> I am browsing TVS diodes and I can't find any with breakdown min voltage >= 29 V and clamping max <= 45 V
2024-08-24T02:12:09 < qyx> they all look the same :S
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2024-08-24T22:20:30 < qyx> no innovation and it is already weekend
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2024-08-24T22:30:24 < Steffanx> Time to lower the bar.
2024-08-24T22:37:02 < qyx> how can one of the most precious heads of the world say that
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--- Day changed su elo 25 2024
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2024-08-25T21:05:18 < Laurenceb_> inb4 french learn about irc
2024-08-25T21:06:51 < Steffanx> mawk is safe here. 
2024-08-25T21:07:28 < Steffanx> How's the loop Laurenceb_ ?
2024-08-25T21:07:56 < Laurenceb_> I'm working on side project - 50kW DC to three phase convertor
2024-08-25T21:08:41 < Laurenceb_> one of the mech engineers when rage mode and quit... hyperboss wanted quick release couplings on each wheel, but wheels had already been designed...
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2024-08-25T22:00:31 < qyx> Laurenceb_: how much dc
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--- Day changed ma elo 26 2024
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2024-08-26T00:21:33 < Laurenceb_> qyx: 2kV
2024-08-26T00:21:48 < Laurenceb_> +-1kV input, 50kW 415V AC out
2024-08-26T00:35:45 < karlp> lol, just got spam offering me trump trading cards
2024-08-26T00:43:52  * Laurenceb_ is planning to use salvaged three phase transformers with SiC MOSFET drive
2024-08-26T00:44:25 < Laurenceb_> problem is that the parasitic capacitance is high.. I'm considering adding ~200uH inductors close to the inverter
2024-08-26T00:45:42 < Laurenceb_> but then the problem is that the whole thing rings, unless you use extra edges to cancel the ringing
2024-08-26T01:00:09 < Laurenceb_> looks like I need quite a lot of inductance, >200uH and >100A saturation current, tricky
2024-08-26T01:08:22 < Laurenceb_> this is prob the solution  https://datasheets.micrometals.com/T201-18-DataSheet.pdf
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2024-08-26T01:14:49 < Laurenceb_> will prob looks messy hanging off the pcb, maybe some 3d printer brackets are called for
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2024-08-26T17:17:18 < jbo> jpa-
2024-08-26T17:17:57 < jpa-> oh no
2024-08-26T17:18:19 < jbo> I just wanted to give you a kiss :<
2024-08-26T17:19:29 < jpa-> i know how it is with you, first it is just a kiss, and then you pull a BQ25756 from your back pocket
2024-08-26T17:19:57 < jbo> hah :D
2024-08-26T17:29:28 < qyx> ol
2024-08-26T17:32:18 < jbo> jpa- surely seems to have a BQ25756 trauma
2024-08-26T17:35:06 < jpa-> i do
2024-08-26T17:35:21 < jpa-> so many promises, so much smoke
2024-08-26T17:38:16 < jbo> you haven't even dealt with BQ34Z100 yet
2024-08-26T17:38:40 < jbo> "oh, you want to set the design capacity or sense resistor value? Here, deal with a bunch of flash pages"
2024-08-26T17:39:10 < jbo> qyx knows
2024-08-26T17:48:14 < qyx> I did bq3500, setting gains and other stuff was juicy
2024-08-26T17:48:19 < qyx> *bq35100
2024-08-26T17:48:44 < qyx> other than that it was unusable and I trashed it in the next rev, it only measures at 4 Hz or so
2024-08-26T17:49:12 < qyx> so not very accurate with low power sleeping devices
2024-08-26T17:49:39 < qyx> which is weird because bq35100 is specifically designed for low power fed with small primary batteries
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2024-08-26T17:59:47 < Steffanx> Yo jbo. Where is your love for the rest of us 💕
2024-08-26T18:00:18 < jbo> <3
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2024-08-26T18:33:33 < aandrew> it is so weird seeing emojis in my ssh session
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2024-08-26T19:23:28 < Laurenceb_> wew, someone broke a 110V relay based safety system
2024-08-26T19:24:12 < Laurenceb_> looks like they ran a 1MW motor without proper capacitors in the inverter and with long bodge cables to the motor, this caused partial discharge and tracking inside the relays
2024-08-26T19:24:33 < Laurenceb_> thats not supposed to be possible
2024-08-26T19:26:27 < jbo> did you tell them not to do that?
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2024-08-26T19:29:20 < Laurenceb_> yes lol
2024-08-26T19:29:24 < jbo> good
2024-08-26T19:29:45 < jbo> 15 minutes on the baby-shaker as punishement
2024-08-26T19:29:57 < Laurenceb_> interestingly the relays never flashed over totally - failure mode is the RCD between the Ni-MH 110V UPS battery and the relay module is tripping out
2024-08-26T19:30:21 < Laurenceb_> it should probably not be able to trip out the safety system lol
2024-08-26T19:31:29 < Laurenceb_> the EMI also cooked their laptop lmao
2024-08-26T19:52:57 < Steffanx> Laurenceb_ forgot to say he was actually responsible for it all
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2024-08-26T22:15:59  * jbo is switching the switching frequency
2024-08-26T22:16:06 < jbo> jpa- would approve
2024-08-26T22:31:20 < Steffanx> Don't say those weird things in public jbo 
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--- Day changed ti elo 27 2024
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2024-08-27T03:04:48 < qyx> catphish: parent's neighbour has a 1970 opel gt
2024-08-27T03:05:53 < qyx> actually he has 3, one is working but missing some parts
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2024-08-27T12:33:54 < ventYl> qyx: my ex-boss had one 2000s Opel GT. It probably spent more time in workshop than on the road
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2024-08-27T13:32:23 < Steffanx> What do you drive ventYl ?
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2024-08-27T13:40:20 < mawk> is jpa- ded
2024-08-27T14:07:09 < ventYl> Steffanx: 30+ years old Audi
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2024-08-27T14:12:41 < Steffanx> jpa- is with jbo, mawk
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2024-08-27T15:50:44 < jpa-> doesn't mean that i'm alive though
2024-08-27T16:05:32 < zyp> how's innovation?
2024-08-27T16:11:38 < karlp> synergizing
2024-08-27T16:15:15  * BrainDamage propels karlp
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2024-08-27T17:45:21 < karlp> https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/volkswagen-to-add-airconsole-gaming-platform-to-its-cars/ this sounds so half thought out
2024-08-27T17:53:21 < ventYl> karlp: germans now have rat race on who will provide more useless stuff in cars
2024-08-27T17:54:15 < specing> meanwhile chad Dacia will sell you a car without even a radio system
2024-08-27T17:54:23 < Ecco> Ok, extremely dumb question: are you supposed to somehow clear a flag once you got a callback from a hardware interrupt? My handler seems to be called in a loop after just one hardware event
2024-08-27T17:54:54 < Ecco> I thought the flag would somehow clear itself
2024-08-27T17:54:57 < specing> Ecco: yeah I recall doing something like that
2024-08-27T17:55:04 < specing> there may be an autoclear setting, dunno
2024-08-27T17:55:55 < ventYl> Ecco: this often depends on peripheral, but yes. you often have to clear some flag, otherwise you either stay in endless interrupt loop or you won't get another notification at all
2024-08-27T17:57:04 < zyp> Ecco, yes, the only self clearing peripheral is systick
2024-08-27T17:57:33 < zyp> for the vendor peripherals, they all have to be cleared somehow, some clears automatically from a status register read, other need an explicit write
2024-08-27T17:57:47 < Ecco> ok, thanks guys
2024-08-27T17:58:13 < Ecco> now, the (maybe) less dumb question: why is that so? In what scenario is an infinite callback loop useful?
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2024-08-27T18:12:00 < karlp> the peripheral doesn't know if it was an irq or whatever, it just says "I'm goign to assert this signal until I'm told that it's been observed"
2024-08-27T18:12:32 < karlp> and with multiple IRQ flags muxing into the same handlers, maybe you didn't actualyl handle all flags in one call...
2024-08-27T18:25:37 < Ecco> makes sense
2024-08-27T18:25:38 < Ecco> thanks!
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2024-08-27T20:29:59 < Laurenceb_> lol enjoy ur freedumz https://hackaday.com/2024/08/27/hidden-gutter-antenna-keeps-hoa-happy/
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2024-08-27T21:09:26 < qyx> dainbramage is bd?
2024-08-27T21:09:51 < qyx> in one of the HaD comme ts
2024-08-27T21:10:05 < BrainDamage> no
2024-08-27T21:10:47 < qyx> but lol
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2024-08-27T21:26:03 < Laurenceb_> https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/27/scotland-msp-spain-balearics-balconing-website
2024-08-27T21:26:12 < Laurenceb_> my orbital sides
2024-08-27T21:38:59  * antto pulls Laurenceb_ back to earth
2024-08-27T21:51:52 < Steffanx> fly, you fool antto.
2024-08-27T21:58:51 < qyx> liebe freunde, what oss would you recommend for a home DVR?
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--- Day changed ke elo 28 2024
2024-08-28T00:21:55 < karlp> actually recording from iptv shits?
2024-08-28T00:22:06 < karlp> or just "I want to watch my files I got from places" ?
2024-08-28T00:22:27 < karlp> I used plex for years, but jellyfin really works basically ~as well.
2024-08-28T00:22:45 < karlp> or do you mean "I have X cameras I want to record shit from"?
2024-08-28T00:23:32 < jbo> what karlp said
2024-08-28T00:23:38 < jbo> for the first case: I'm a happy user of emby
2024-08-28T00:24:08 < karlp> yeah, I tried emby briefly, but it was worse than plex, and private too, so ~zero advantages over plex.
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2024-08-28T01:07:51 < karlp> man, rsync with lots of little files is _teh suck_
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2024-08-28T01:43:50 < jbo> karlp, if I recall correctly, that is mostly because rsync is single-threaded. you can spawn it with multiple threads and it will be much faster in case of tiny files.
2024-08-28T01:44:51 < jbo> or just pipe into - then outof zstd/gzip
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2024-08-28T02:12:50 < qyx> karlp: the latter one, I have 2 cameras
2024-08-28T02:14:00 < jbo> qyx, zoneminder
2024-08-28T02:15:30 < karlp> jbo: yeah, not zstd locally, just tar, to make it a single file, but I know that's a thing.
2024-08-28T02:15:33 < karlp> still lameish
2024-08-28T02:15:49 < karlp> qyx: I have zero useful feedback on camera dvr shits
2024-08-28T02:15:57 < jbo> zoneminder!
2024-08-28T02:16:15 < karlp> I was not taking anyhting away from you, just trying to close off my avenue :)
2024-08-28T02:16:28 < jbo> I know - I'm just in a funny mood
2024-08-28T02:16:43 < karlp> all good :)
2024-08-28T02:16:50 < jbo> also - as everyone here knows - I am so easily offended - especially by you.
2024-08-28T02:17:06 < jbo> shouldn't you be asleep anyway?
2024-08-28T02:17:07 < karlp> I.... did not know that....
2024-08-28T02:17:13 < karlp> it's only 23:17?
2024-08-28T02:17:24 < jbo> exactly
2024-08-28T02:17:33 < jbo> sing your prayers, go to bed.
2024-08-28T02:18:19 < karlp> having a hard time imagining singing prayers before bed...
2024-08-28T02:18:51 < karlp> how'd your 4g shits end up?
2024-08-28T02:19:09 < karlp> saw sequans got aquired byt quackcomm the other day.
2024-08-28T02:19:20 < karlp> "nomonopoliesnoproblems"
2024-08-28T02:19:41 < jbo> switched to ublox
2024-08-28T02:19:49 < jbo> send SMS successfully 24 hours ago
2024-08-28T02:19:59 < karlp> what were you using before? a quacktel?
2024-08-28T02:20:03 < jbo> the PCB now looks like shit
2024-08-28T02:20:10 < jbo> yes, Quacktel EC25
2024-08-28T02:20:12 < karlp> what got "fixed" by ublox? it's "same" ?
2024-08-28T02:20:17 < jbo> now uBlox LENA R8
2024-08-28T02:20:38 < karlp> pcb looks like shit, but shit still "just pretty much just works" ?
2024-08-28T02:20:46 < jbo> I told my friend that under no cirumstances am I going to do anything firmware related if there's a quacktel module on the board. and then they didn't manage to firmware.
2024-08-28T02:20:49 < jbo> so now uBlox
2024-08-28T02:21:06 < jbo> PCB is working, yeah. but doesn't look as nice anymore :(
2024-08-28T02:21:13 < karlp> what was wrong with quacktel?
2024-08-28T02:21:38 < jbo> first of all we couldn't get the modules anymore in Januar 2024 because export control regulations crap
2024-08-28T02:21:52 < jbo> secondly, I am not wasting my time writing firmware for chinese cheap ass crap module with no documentation and insane behavior
2024-08-28T02:22:15 < jbo> and obviously LTE CAT-4 never made sense on a board with an STM32 hooked up via serial link
2024-08-28T02:22:30 < jbo> but you know how it is... don't listen in the beginning, always face plant first, then redo.
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2024-08-28T18:30:52 < machinehum> "don't listen, faceplant and redo"
2024-08-28T18:31:04 < machinehum> https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/no-more-charging-cables-prong-iphone-case-has-wall-prongs/
2024-08-28T18:32:20 < machinehum> We told them not to do it, regulatory nightmare, American market too retardrd to not electrocute themselves, every new version of the iMonster you need to redo your CE
2024-08-28T18:32:37 < machinehum> Do you think they listened?
2024-08-28T18:33:27 < machinehum> It's what happens when an ID with zero knowledge of electronics makes something
2024-08-28T18:54:25 < Steffanx> Why would you have to redo your CE for every new iPhone?
2024-08-28T18:55:31 < specing> and american market needs FCC, not CE
2024-08-28T18:58:00 < Steffanx> That too
2024-08-28T18:59:07 < Steffanx> machinehum is CE though
2024-08-28T18:59:11 < Steffanx> Canada Export 
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2024-08-28T20:13:48 < fenugrec> or China export depending where you buy your reel of stickers
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--- Day changed to elo 29 2024
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2024-08-29T12:22:34 < machinehum> lol
2024-08-29T12:26:01 < jpa-> so machinehum's advice was "don't try".. then they bitch that someone tried and failed?
2024-08-29T12:27:36 < machinehum> Our advice was it's a shitty idea, yeah
2024-08-29T12:27:53 < machinehum> Mains powered cellphone case is a bad idea for several reasons
2024-08-29T12:28:20 < jpa-> sure
2024-08-29T12:28:59 < jpa-> some bad ideas fly :)
2024-08-29T12:29:53 < machinehum> New Boeing slogan
2024-08-29T12:30:08 < zyp> what's so bad about that thing?
2024-08-29T12:30:49 < jpa-> also it kinda made more sense back in 2013 when battery life was terrible
2024-08-29T12:33:21 < zyp> and charging cables anywhere were less ubiquitous
2024-08-29T13:49:14 < specing> jpa-: battery life was better in 2013
2024-08-29T13:49:25 < specing> no power hungry stuff on phones,yet
2024-08-29T13:57:22 < jpa-> what power hungry stuff was missing?
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2024-08-29T14:15:54 < qyx> millions of apps
2024-08-29T14:16:12 < jpa-> in 2013? they were there
2024-08-29T14:16:31 < qyx> it was 2013 when androidz were becoming comonly available
2024-08-29T14:16:38 < qyx> not only for moneyed westerners
2024-08-29T14:17:44 < qyx> even a friend of mine said she never called me again because she bought a new phone and didn't migrate all contacts properly
2024-08-29T14:17:52 < qyx> I remember, it was 2013
2024-08-29T14:37:12 < zyp> I think I bought my first android in 2010
2024-08-29T14:42:52 < BrainDamage> I had an android phone gifted to me in 2010, it was all sorts of terrible
2024-08-29T14:51:51 < qyx> my first actual android device was odroid-something with android 2.1 or so
2024-08-29T14:52:30 < qyx> it had some sam9g45 or similar
2024-08-29T14:53:27 < qyx> sorry odroid, it was https://www.mini-box.com/pico-SAM9G45-X
2024-08-29T14:55:31 < qyx> https://arm.mini-box.com/index.php/Android_Changelog
2024-08-29T14:55:32 < qyx> hah
2024-08-29T15:04:52 < zyp> mine was an xperia x10 mini pro
2024-08-29T15:05:32 < zyp> too small display to run much apps, but the physical keyboard was nice
2024-08-29T15:40:57 < karlp> check out this epic format string I just discovered: "\002(%d\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%g\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%d\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%ld\t%d\t%ld\t%d\t%ld\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%s\t%d\t%ld\003\r\n",
2024-08-29T15:41:07 < karlp> I bet no-one ever makes a mistake with that!
2024-08-29T15:41:18 < karlp> write only code.
2024-08-29T15:45:45 < c10ud_> well, if you don't get warnings, once you write it you're good
2024-08-29T15:45:55 < c10ud_> i didnt know you could escape bytes, nice
2024-08-29T15:46:11 < c10ud_> i guess the \r\n is redundant then
2024-08-29T15:46:49 < qyx> why should it be
2024-08-29T15:47:26 < c10ud_> because you just cut the msg with 03
2024-08-29T15:47:28 < c10ud_> etx
2024-08-29T15:49:06 < qyx> try that with a serial tty in canonical mode
2024-08-29T15:54:18 < c10ud_> yeah well, usually i just zero out the serial cfg in linux and similar platform, mostly to avoid jittering too much
2024-08-29T15:54:51 < c10ud_> but i could understand the need for \n
2024-08-29T15:55:29 < c10ud_> even if an \n could be as well in one of the arguments, so i guess you want to rx byte by byte anyway
2024-08-29T15:55:59 < c10ud_> oh my brain just shitted, you cannot
2024-08-29T15:56:04 < c10ud_> so, ok
2024-08-29T15:56:35 < c10ud_> but then why stx and etx? just put a simple char as a prefix, end it with \n and call it a day
2024-08-29T15:57:42 < karlp> the trailing \r\n did actually cause me problems parsing, as I captured to the \003 etx, then did anothe roperation reading to \n, which got an "empty" record :)
2024-08-29T15:59:57 < karlp> fucking hungarian prefixes on data variables. fWeight and dTare.
2024-08-29T16:00:02 < karlp> nope. both doubles....
2024-08-29T16:19:28 < jbo> people
2024-08-29T16:19:30 < jbo> how are things?
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2024-08-29T17:31:34 < karlp> that write once code turned up more gems.
2024-08-29T17:32:15 < karlp> some of the values to print into the format string were supplied by calls that do sprintf and return the buffer printed to, and some of them were reusing the same working buffer.
2024-08-29T17:32:21 < karlp> super clever.
2024-08-29T17:34:13 < qyx> today is a 'don't be grumpy today' day
2024-08-29T17:34:48 < qyx> ohno unmatched '
2024-08-29T17:36:55 < qyx> in other news, today is the 80th anniversary of the .sk national uprising, I guess it is the right time for some serious work computer updates
2024-08-29T17:38:35 < qyx> root@qyx4:~# cat /etc/debian_version 
2024-08-29T17:38:36 < qyx> 11.8
2024-08-29T17:42:24 < qyx> good, the new one is Triexie
2024-08-29T17:42:27 < qyx> *Trixie
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2024-08-29T18:20:59 < fenugrec> zyp what controller did you use for your fanuc robo-arm again ?
2024-08-29T18:27:54 < zyp> you mean the fpga in the replacement controller I built, or what?
2024-08-29T18:28:37 < fenugrec> yea I couldn't remember if you had linuxcnc driving the original servo amps, or all fanuc stuff
2024-08-29T18:30:51 < zyp> the replacement controller I built is a FPGA-based thing that's a drop in replacement for the original controller board and lets me drive the original servo amps from linuxcnc, yes
2024-08-29T18:33:22 < fenugrec> cool, cool. Is it conceptually equivalent to the mesa-7i* IO boards ? or does it do motion control at a higher level (not sure how that would interface with linuxcnc though, I'm only familiar with its simpler step-dir mode)
2024-08-29T18:34:33 < zyp> I haven't used any of the mesa boards so I'm not really qualified to do a comparison
2024-08-29T18:36:50 < fenugrec> all good. Just curious, as there's a guy not too far selling similar early-90's robo-arms for very, very cheap, but it's hard to find docs for those early controllers, if they even still work. Fairly certain I don't need another project though
2024-08-29T18:38:22 < zyp> what I've done is make some infrastructure where I can effectively declare signals in the FPGA gateware that gets exchanged over a custom industrial ethernet protocol (like a poor man's ethercat), and a linuxcnc HAL component that scans the ethernet bus, grabs metadata from each device and turns all the signals into HAL pins
2024-08-29T18:38:24 < fenugrec> englishman do you need a robo-arm
2024-08-29T18:38:50 < fenugrec> oh that's fairly involved
2024-08-29T18:39:10 < englishman> work bought one to use in production for a task that production didn’t want to automate, spent 2 years trying to get it to work, now it sits useless in the cleanroom
2024-08-29T18:39:16 < fenugrec> hahaha
2024-08-29T18:39:19 < englishman> so no thx
2024-08-29T18:39:42 < zyp> so I can put whatever in the FPGA, export some control signals for it and have linuxcnc drive it realtime
2024-08-29T18:39:57 < englishman> how big do you need? robotiq in montreal has an interesting pydongs interface
2024-08-29T18:40:10 < fenugrec> that's the cool thing - I don't need one at all
2024-08-29T18:40:14 < englishman> heh
2024-08-29T18:40:21 < zyp> right now I have a FOC controller for each axis in there, and expose the torque dq vector to linuxcnc
2024-08-29T18:40:38 < fenugrec> granted, a dangerous 350kg piece of machinery would look cool in the living room
2024-08-29T18:41:25 < fenugrec> zyp aah yes that sounds familiar, I think you mentioned FOC controllers a while back. Servos have abs encoders builtin ?
2024-08-29T18:42:27 < zyp> yeah, using a custom fanuc protocol, I have decoders for that too in the FPGA
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2024-08-29T18:58:31 < qyx> how much % of brain damage does one need to use discord?
2024-08-29T18:58:40 < qyx> I mean, the hell is it even
2024-08-29T18:58:49 < qyx> I am not even able to grasp the idea
2024-08-29T18:59:43 < qyx> do current kids have some special abilities enabling them to use the platform?
2024-08-29T18:59:57 < karlp> it's just irc, in a browser window...
2024-08-29T19:00:11 < karlp> what's so difficult to understand with it?
2024-08-29T19:00:16 < karlp> it's ~same as slack
2024-08-29T19:00:41 < qyx> blinky, colors, channels? wat
2024-08-29T19:20:35 < qyx> my godness
2024-08-29T19:21:25  * qyx stepped forward 2 years
2024-08-29T19:22:18 < zyp> discord is nice enough, has better markdown support than any of the other messenger things people have got me to use
2024-08-29T19:22:43 < qyx> I always liked mattermost
2024-08-29T19:22:53 < qyx> but now I see they have gone fully saas?
2024-08-29T19:23:07 < qyx> there is some 'free' version as binaries
2024-08-29T19:23:24 < qyx> hm, also some github sources but idk how licensing applies there
2024-08-29T19:23:50 < qyx> I guess it must be possible to have full functioanlity with the open source version
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2024-08-29T20:37:29 < fenugrec> discord has fairly plug-and-play functions for video streaming and chat, but yes it is definitely targeting a younger audience than stm32 boomers
2024-08-29T20:37:33 < fenugrec> or pic16f boomers
2024-08-29T20:40:20  * qyx stepped forward another 2 years
2024-08-29T20:40:27 < qyx> weehee kikecad 8.0.4
2024-08-29T20:40:47 < qyx> update-initramfs: failed for /boot/initrd.img-6.1.0-23-amd64 with 1.
2024-08-29T20:40:50 < qyx> ok nope.
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2024-08-29T20:59:27 < qyx> kicad hjalp, all my boards have 3D models in $KSYS3DMOD
2024-08-29T20:59:38 < qyx> but there is no such path variable in kicad8
2024-08-29T21:00:05 < qyx> what am I supposed to do, I am surely not rewriting that in all my boards
2024-08-29T21:07:02 < Ecco> I'm trying to PWM a pin using LPTIM. Is there some libopencm3 sample code to do this?
2024-08-29T21:07:03 < qyx> also, migrating all my symbol libs
2024-08-29T21:24:39 < jbo> qyx, you can add the variable manually
2024-08-29T21:24:42 < jbo> it's just no longer default
2024-08-29T21:24:56 < jbo> qyx, otherwise, just search&replace with find/xargs whatever your whole library
2024-08-29T21:27:25 < qyx> noooo
2024-08-29T21:28:36 < jbo> just add the variable in the GUI then
2024-08-29T21:28:40 < jbo> been there, done that.
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2024-08-29T22:27:49 < Ecco> Are BSS84 especially fragile?
2024-08-29T22:29:51 < jbo> compared to what?
2024-08-29T22:30:46 < Ecco> Well, to a MCU for example :)
2024-08-29T22:30:59 < Ecco> I'm using two of them as high-side switches, and... they just don't work?
2024-08-29T22:31:12 < Ecco> So either 1/ I fried them when soldering or 2/ My schematics sucks and I'm an idiot
2024-08-29T22:31:25 < Ecco> (well, in 1/ I'd be an idiot as well tbh :-D)
2024-08-29T22:31:48 < jbo> I'd say it's pretty hard to fry them during soldering, unless you have anti-ESD measures in place and used a blow torch
2024-08-29T22:32:45 < jbo> here's a somewhat common setup: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cu7Q5
2024-08-29T22:33:05 < jbo> C42 is not really part of the actual high-side switch
2024-08-29T22:33:30 < jbo> and DTC043Z can be any N-channel FET or NPN transistor but you might want to add a dedicated pull-down then.
2024-08-29T22:33:39 < jbo> but as usual: everything depends on everything so...
2024-08-29T22:34:52 < jbo> and to answer the actual question: generally (!) I'd expect a BSS84 to be less "fragile" than an MCU :D
2024-08-29T22:35:53 < Ecco> ok, thank you so much :)
2024-08-29T22:36:07 < Ecco> (screenshot looks nice btw, is that Kicad?)
2024-08-29T22:36:22 < jbo> yes, unfortunately it is.
2024-08-29T22:36:58 < Ecco> Why do you use two transistors?
2024-08-29T22:37:04 < Ecco> What's the point of Q2?
2024-08-29T22:37:38 < jbo> it's just there to drive Q3
2024-08-29T22:39:01 < jbo> if you directly hook it up to the MCU you can ("easily") exceed the MCU's GPIO specs
2024-08-29T22:39:56 < jbo> there's another "common" topology where you setup Q2 in a base configuration. but I'd have to digg into my memory to recall the advantages/disadvantages.
2024-08-29T22:40:32 < Ecco> wait, I don't get it, I thought the point of using Q3 was precisely not to exceed the GPIO's current rating
2024-08-29T22:40:51 < Ecco> I thought MOSFET were voltage-driven and would only draw negligible amounts of current
2024-08-29T22:43:44 < jbo> Look at R27
2024-08-29T22:43:55 < jbo> if V_INT is for example 12V, you run into a problem.
2024-08-29T22:44:14 < Ecco> Oh, ok
2024-08-29T22:44:15 < jbo> then your GPIO can suddenly be at 12V
2024-08-29T22:44:31 < qyx> my kicad-fu lowered from 4/10 to 2/10 when upgrading from 5.x to 8.x
2024-08-29T22:44:31 < Ecco> In my case V_INT would be the MCU's VDD
2024-08-29T22:45:16 < Ecco> So I assume in this *specific* case Q2 is not needed, right?
2024-08-29T22:45:28 < jbo> hence the "everything depends on everything" remark. Can you share the schematic?
2024-08-29T22:46:30 < jbo> yes, in some cases you can drive the p-channel directly from the MCU GPIO then. you might want to add a series resistor on the gate to prevent currents exceeding the GPIO spec tho.
2024-08-29T22:52:34 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/K5FxQEH.png
2024-08-29T22:52:57 < Ecco> I have a little bit of code running on an STM32 that PWMs the BUZZ_EN pin
2024-08-29T22:53:12 < Ecco> If I bypass Q3 altogether, then I do hear a buzz :)
2024-08-29T22:53:17 < jbo> what's the reason for not just using an n-channel FET in low-side switch configuration?
2024-08-29T22:53:26 < Ecco> (the bypass is shown in blue)
2024-08-29T22:53:37 < Ecco> jbo: no reason. Why would it be better?
2024-08-29T22:53:51 < jbo> high-side switching is a pain compared to low-side switching (as you are finding out)
2024-08-29T22:54:01 < Ecco> ok :-D
2024-08-29T22:54:05 < jbo> with a low-side switch you don't have the gate voltage issue we just discussed
2024-08-29T22:54:20 < Ecco> Well, tbh, in this scenario I may even just do *without* a MOSFET after all
2024-08-29T22:54:25 < Ecco> I just wanted to be safe
2024-08-29T22:54:46 < Ecco> Now, the voltage issue we discussed doesn't really apply here, does it?
2024-08-29T22:54:53 < jbo> No idea about the inductor sizing but keep in mind that you have an LC circuit there so voltages *might* exceed your VBAT
2024-08-29T22:55:14 < jbo> I have to jump into a meeting now, sorry :/
2024-08-29T22:55:23 < Ecco> No problem! I hope your meeting goes well
2024-08-29T22:55:30 < Ecco> (also, L1 and C25 are not even fitted just yet)
2024-08-29T22:55:40 < Ecco> so currently it's really just a piezo buzzer
2024-08-29T22:57:59 < jbo> take a multimeter and measure the voltage level of BUZZ_EN
2024-08-29T22:58:04 < jbo> really gotta go now - sorry o/
2024-08-29T23:00:43 < Ecco> Ok, so I just measured: Drain is at 2.6V (expected), Gate is PWM between 0 and 2.6V (expected), and Source is always 2.6V (*not* what I expected)
2024-08-29T23:01:00 < fenugrec> Ecco in general you can't use a single pmos from a 3v3 mcu if you're trying to switch the high side of a higher voltage (e.g. your vbat)
2024-08-29T23:01:30 < fenugrec> why don't you put a nmos on the low side of your buzzer like everybody ?
2024-08-29T23:01:37 < Ecco> Yeah, I will
2024-08-29T23:01:53 < Ecco> (but in my case Vbat <= 3.3V == MCU's vdd)
2024-08-29T23:01:56 < Ecco> sorry
2024-08-29T23:02:04 < Ecco> The MCU is powered straight from Vbat
2024-08-29T23:02:08 < fenugrec> oh ok, didn read all scrollback
2024-08-29T23:02:13 < Ecco> no worries :)
2024-08-29T23:02:20 < Ecco> I think I found my mistake
2024-08-29T23:02:23 < Ecco> I'm going to double check
2024-08-29T23:02:29 < Ecco> but it might be the lamest mistake
2024-08-29T23:02:38 < fenugrec> like wrong pinout of q3, let me guess
2024-08-29T23:03:46 < Ecco> :-D
2024-08-29T23:04:41 < Ecco> Yup
2024-08-29T23:04:53 < fenugrec> happens to the best of us
2024-08-29T23:04:57 < Ecco> so it's actually option 3/ Ecco can't even tell his right from his left
2024-08-29T23:05:01 < Ecco> dang
2024-08-29T23:05:01 < Ecco> :-D
2024-08-29T23:05:18 < Ecco> So out of curiosity, is there any standardized pin numbering for SOT-23 packages?
2024-08-29T23:05:32 < Ecco> I notice JBO's schematics mentionned pins 1-2-3
2024-08-29T23:05:33 < fenugrec> no
2024-08-29T23:05:37 < Ecco> ok
2024-08-29T23:05:40 < fenugrec> check DS always. Always.
2024-08-29T23:05:47 < Ecco> ok
2024-08-29T23:06:06 < fenugrec> I have a taped bit of paper in one of my elec toolboxes that has 3 items : #1 power  #2 wiring  #3 pinouts
2024-08-29T23:06:20 < Ecco> Makes sense
2024-08-29T23:06:21 < fenugrec> had that in there since ... 2004 ? it's always one of those
2024-08-29T23:09:12 < qyx> feature of the day: curved rats nets
2024-08-29T23:09:51 < Ecco> That's in kicad?
2024-08-29T23:09:52 < fenugrec> wonder what does a curved rat look like
2024-08-29T23:11:14 < Ecco> Yeah, so I did swap the Drain and Source pins :)
2024-08-29T23:11:34 < qyx> can't you solder it upside down?
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2024-08-29T23:16:59 < Ecco> Hmm, maybe :)
2024-08-29T23:17:19 < Ecco> Well, that would swap G and S, I need to swap D and S
2024-08-29T23:17:25 < Ecco> I'll find a way :)
2024-08-29T23:19:07 < qyx> ..and rotate a bit
2024-08-29T23:55:34 < Steffanx> qyx is a professional bit rotator.
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2024-08-29T23:59:22 < qyx> I am pretty triggered by the new kikecad
2024-08-29T23:59:29 < qyx> I am not even able to route a pcb now
2024-08-29T23:59:42 < qyx> such amount of antifeatures
--- Day changed pe elo 30 2024
2024-08-30T00:07:05 < qyx> now I understand that my pcb routing productivity I always had as a result of sticking to the same version of my tools for ages
2024-08-30T00:07:12 < qyx> *was
2024-08-30T00:12:13 < Steffanx> Why Mr qyx?
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2024-08-30T00:23:45 < zyp> I was poking at a multichannel DAC today, simple interface with 12 bits shift register and a load signal, the 8 lower bits were 8-bit data, the upper 4 bits were channel number
2024-08-30T00:24:40 < zyp> it weren't behaving properly even after sorting out stuff like clock polarity
2024-08-30T00:25:32 < zyp> and then I noticed the bit numbers for the channel number were backwards, so channel 1 was 0x8, channel 2 was 0x4, channel 3 was 0xc and so on
2024-08-30T00:25:48 < jbo> did you flip a table?
2024-08-30T00:26:44 < zyp> no, it's just weird
2024-08-30T00:26:52 < zyp> look at page 8: https://fscdn.rohm.com/en/products/databook/datasheet/ic/data_converter/dac/bh2223fv-e.pdf
2024-08-30T00:45:59 < qyx> Steffanx: because it is trying to be smart and fails
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2024-08-30T01:18:26 < jbo> zyp, I see how that is an unfortunate representation
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2024-08-30T14:06:59 < qyx> unrouted: 32!
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2024-08-30T16:48:35 < jbo> moin
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2024-08-30T18:27:46 < jbo> jpa-, zyp, pingerino
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2024-08-30T20:13:59 < jpa-> why is jbo doing ask to ask
2024-08-30T20:23:08 < jbo> cuz I respect you
2024-08-30T20:23:22 < jbo> I have BLDC questions
2024-08-30T20:23:28 < jbo> word on the street is you're pro as usual
2024-08-30T20:23:38 < jbo> I'm reading about trapezoidal vs sinusoidal drive waveforms
2024-08-30T20:23:49 < jpa-> they are a lie
2024-08-30T20:24:03 < jbo> is is correct that if you do sinusoidal, you need to have a proper encoder, whereas with trapezoidal you can use BEMF?
2024-08-30T20:24:20 < jpa-> no, you can do either with either
2024-08-30T20:24:24 < jbo> also, is sinusodial basically more or less the same as or in conjunction with FOC?
2024-08-30T20:24:28 < jbo> hmm, okay
2024-08-30T20:24:51 < jbo> so is the choice of trapezoidal vs. sinusoidal almost entirely only cost/complexity?
2024-08-30T20:24:52 < jpa-> FOC is always sinusoidal, unless you go into great extent to make it more choppy
2024-08-30T20:25:02 < jpa-> sinusoidal is not necessarily FOC
2024-08-30T20:25:39 < jpa-> yeah, trapezoidal backemf doesn't need ADC, just a simple comparator
2024-08-30T20:25:48 < jpa-> so that is what all the cheap AVR-based ESCs use
2024-08-30T20:26:13 < jpa-> sinusoidal backemf needs fast enough ADC that you can measure phase voltages and/or currents
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2024-08-30T20:26:45 < jbo> interesting
2024-08-30T20:27:10 < jbo> but you can do FOC (which is always sinosoidal) without back EMF, right? you can just use an encoder and get the same/better information?
2024-08-30T20:29:03 < jpa-> yes
2024-08-30T20:29:17 < jpa-> you still need current measurement though
2024-08-30T20:29:45 < jbo> yeah that's what I have going on
2024-08-30T20:29:58 < jpa-> (though there is this funny "sinusoidal drive" or "open loop FOC" thing where you estimate the currents based on motor characteristics and encoder measurement)
2024-08-30T20:30:20 < jbo> yeah, that I have seen in action too (TMC4671 does that too, AFAIK)
2024-08-30T20:30:21 < jbo> so trapezoidal is almost always just cost/complexity advantage?
2024-08-30T20:30:38 < jpa-> yeah
2024-08-30T20:30:57 < jbo> alright, that is helpful, thank you.
2024-08-30T20:31:04 < jbo> I got also confused when I looked at BLDC vs PMSM
2024-08-30T20:31:05 < jpa-> there are supposedly motors that are wound to spin smoother with trapezoidal than with sine wave signals, but i have never found one
2024-08-30T20:31:31 < jpa-> and yeah, some try to claim that all "BLDC" motors are trapezoidal wound, but they don't really appear to be
2024-08-30T20:31:43 < qyx> me too, why they arent?
2024-08-30T20:32:03 < jbo> if I'd have such a BLDC that is wound for trapezoidal, I'd have a problem driving it with FOC, right?
2024-08-30T20:32:19 < qyx> just correct me, if they generate trapezoidal bemf, they are trapezoidal wound, aren't they?
2024-08-30T20:32:21 < jpa-> jbo: not really, it would just have some more audible noise
2024-08-30T20:32:27 < jpa-> qyx: correct
2024-08-30T20:32:47 < qyx> hm so all bldcs I ever had are like that
2024-08-30T20:33:04 < jpa-> hmm
2024-08-30T20:34:00 < qyx> I will happily correct myself if you send me such motor
2024-08-30T20:34:08 < qyx> at least 15 kW preferably
2024-08-30T20:34:11 < qyx> 120 V
2024-08-30T20:34:46 < jpa-> i haven't worked with anything that large
2024-08-30T20:34:57 < jbo> only because I didn't come visit you yet.
2024-08-30T20:35:36 < jpa-> the biting insect season is almost over, we only have 2 kinds left, and one insect that shoots larvae into your eyes
2024-08-30T20:38:02 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/bldc_bemf.png   my motors always give me this
2024-08-30T20:40:02 < jbo> insect that shoots larvae into your eyes?!?!?!
2024-08-30T20:40:21 < Steffanx> You are that insect
2024-08-30T20:43:37 < jbo> I genuienly just lol'd the for the first time in a long time.
2024-08-30T20:44:21 < jpa-> https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000010603001.html   if the video works for you, you'll see them moving around
2024-08-30T20:44:37 < jpa-> if you are lucky, they'll get to the backside of eye and to your brain
2024-08-30T20:44:54 < jbo> bro
2024-08-30T20:45:02 < jbo> that's the sort of shit that is really just not okay
2024-08-30T20:45:23 < jbo> is this a rare occurrance or does that happen easily just because you were foolish enough to sleep?
2024-08-30T20:45:36 < zyp> just finland things
2024-08-30T20:47:18 < jbo> god am I glad that I'm neither part of the EU nor NATO so insects can't get me.
2024-08-30T20:49:34 < jbo> jpa-, thanks for the BLDC info - appreciated! I took notes.
2024-08-30T20:51:19 < qyx> wat is jpa living in tropical finlandia?
2024-08-30T20:51:24 < jpa-> jbo: no you don't need to sleep, they come at you when you walk
2024-08-30T20:52:15 < jpa-> it's a rare occurrence though, usually you just get the flies that kamikaze down from trees, drop their wings and nest in your hair for the winter
2024-08-30T20:53:32 < qyx> Silmälääkärikään
2024-08-30T20:53:38 < qyx> wut
2024-08-30T20:53:52 < jpa-> "not even an eye doctor"
2024-08-30T20:54:08 < jpa-> of course we have a word for that
2024-08-30T20:54:26 < qyx> and how is the bee called?
2024-08-30T20:54:31 < qyx> looks like a bee
2024-08-30T20:54:51 < jpa-> looks like bee but is actually botfly
2024-08-30T20:55:30 < jpa-> direct translation of hirvennenäsaivartaja would be "moose nose pedant"
2024-08-30T20:55:44 < qyx> how can't you see it poking into your eye?
2024-08-30T20:55:57 < jpa-> it doesn't poke, it shoots
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2024-08-30T20:56:08 < jpa-> and yeah, you can notice it buzzing in front of your face
2024-08-30T20:57:28 < jpa-> "There have also been several cases of C. ulrichii squirting their larvae into the eyes of human beings, a somewhat painful event that requires medical attention to forestall any possibility of serious damage."   don't worry, wikipedia says it is only somewhat painful
2024-08-30T21:00:24 < jpa-> https://things-in-motion.blogspot.com/2018/12/why-most-hobby-grade-bldc-out-runners.html    ok, looks like cheap motors just happen to have sinusoidal BEMF
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2024-08-30T21:11:08 < qyx> but why
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2024-08-30T21:11:35 < qyx> isthisspecific to the winding strategy?
2024-08-30T21:11:51 < BrainDamage> yes
2024-08-30T21:12:00 < qyx> I would say 12p14t would produce trapezoidal bemf
2024-08-30T21:12:10 < qyx> and any distributed one sinusoidal
2024-08-30T21:12:17 < qyx> but that's nit the case apparentyl
2024-08-30T21:12:21 < zyp> saying it doesn't make it true
2024-08-30T21:13:07 < qyx> (it does for our gov)
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2024-08-30T21:45:19 < jbo> slut datafag?
2024-08-30T21:46:45 < jbo> jpa-, I'm dealing with two motors. one is Allied Motion MF0127020, the other one is Faulhaber 2036B
2024-08-30T21:48:21 < jpa-> i'd say they are very likely sinusoidal bemf, because that usually gives more accurate positioning
2024-08-30T21:48:53 < jpa-> but you can always measure
2024-08-30T21:49:12 < jbo> yeah makes sense - thanks!
2024-08-30T21:51:01 < jbo> jpa-, so what would happen if I drive such a motor with sinusoidal bemf with a trapezoidal waveform? that is "the normal case" for the "cheap/low-complexity" setup, right?
2024-08-30T21:51:13 < zyp> yeah
2024-08-30T21:51:38 < zyp> you'll probably get some torque ripple which mostly manifests as audible noise, I figure
2024-08-30T21:51:57 < jbo> that would also introduce mechanical vibrations, right?
2024-08-30T21:52:30 < zyp> that's what audible noise is
2024-08-30T21:52:37 < jbo> lol
2024-08-30T21:52:40 < jbo> can't argue with that
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2024-08-30T22:48:02 < qyx> kicad pros, why do I have a ton of "wire not connected to anything" ERC errors in v8?
2024-08-30T22:49:02 < qyx> like here https://bin.jvnv.net/file/VxChD/Screenshot_2024-08-30_21-48-45.png
2024-08-30T22:49:23 < qyx> PE0/1 are clearly marked as not connected to anything
2024-08-30T22:49:31 < qyx> and the crystal, pls
2024-08-30T22:56:47 < karlp> something looks buggy there.
2024-08-30T22:58:25 < qyx> DRC too, totally unusable
2024-08-30T22:59:11 < qyx> when I do "delete all markers" it starts highlighting them one by one
2024-08-30T22:59:16 < qyx> what the serious fuk
2024-08-30T22:59:34 < qyx> it takes 2 minutes to highlight them all, other windows are frozen
2024-08-30T22:59:42 < karlp> wat
2024-08-30T23:01:55 < qyx> also, i cannot select font in any dialog, it starts blinking windows and freezes
2024-08-30T23:02:06 < qyx> clearly some bugs leftovers
2024-08-30T23:07:32 < qyx> also "front solder mask aperture bridges items with different nets"
2024-08-30T23:08:12 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hYRbx/Screenshot_2024-08-30_22-07-59.png
2024-08-30T23:08:16 < qyx> full board of errors
2024-08-30T23:09:16 < qyx> now it deleted all markers without highlighting
2024-08-30T23:15:29 < qyx> clicking a track and doing "select all tracks in this net" yields this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/B7ZGB/Screenshot_2024-08-30_22-14-41.png
2024-08-30T23:15:45 < qyx> I am going to cry
2024-08-30T23:17:37 < qyx> it didn't generate net names for net without explicit names
2024-08-30T23:20:13 < qyx> https://www.reddit.com/r/KiCad/comments/14z2f8g/no_net_names_are_generated/
2024-08-30T23:20:38 < jbo> wait doesn't it generate net names automagically?
2024-08-30T23:21:56 < qyx> no
2024-08-30T23:22:04 < qyx> for some reason
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--- Day changed la elo 31 2024
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2024-08-31T00:15:44 < karlp> just for qyx, for spite.
2024-08-31T00:15:54 < karlp> is that an imported project?
2024-08-31T00:16:03 < karlp> from like v4 or something archaic that you were using?
2024-08-31T00:19:25 < qyx> yes I tracked it down
2024-08-31T00:19:49 < qyx> when I attach a wire to a part of the schematic that was imported, no net is generated
2024-08-31T00:20:29 < qyx> when I copy the symbol (a R_Small resistor) and paste nearby, attach a wire, it gets a net generated correctly
2024-08-31T00:20:36 < qyx> so I saved it and opened in an editor
2024-08-31T00:20:50 < qyx> and it looks like the non-working one lacks the whole "instance" section in the file
2024-08-31T00:55:32 < karlp> yeah that's definitely a migration bug that should get fixed.
2024-08-31T00:55:47 < karlp> you were importing form "not 7" and "not 6" right? you were on 5 or something old?
2024-08-31T00:59:05 < qyx> 5.0.14 to 8.0.4
2024-08-31T00:59:14 < qyx> yeah I was recommended to file a bug report
2024-08-31T00:59:35 < qyx> I have maybe 50 different projects more or less active
2024-08-31T01:00:06 < qyx> so I hope it works, otherwise I am going to graze sheep instead
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2024-08-31T01:21:20 -!- h4x0riz3d is now known as antto
2024-08-31T01:49:31 < qyx> karlp: antto solved it
2024-08-31T01:50:04 < qyx> select the offending part/parts, cut, paste special with "keep refs", F8, reassociate by refs, done
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2024-08-31T02:42:23 < qyx> why is libstdc++-arm-none-eabi-newlib 2 GB?
2024-08-31T02:44:24 < qyx> gross
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2024-08-31T07:43:08 < upgrdman> any of you pros have a "good" lab scale that can do 0.01g measurements, with a full scale of at least 2kg?
2024-08-31T07:43:47 < upgrdman> i've been thinking about getting the 2.2kg version of this https://www.aandd.jp/products/weighing/balance/toploader/fz-iwp_fx-iwp.html
2024-08-31T07:44:17 < upgrdman> about $1000, wish i could poke it in person before buying :/
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2024-08-31T14:35:00 < karlp> upgrdman:200000 divisions is way more than most scales can reasonably do.
2024-08-31T14:35:21 < karlp> I mean, they can lie if they like, but expensive shit at work it like 10k divisions for legal shits
2024-08-31T14:35:28 < karlp> you want 20 times that.
2024-08-31T14:35:49 < qyx> what's the reason, mechanical?
2024-08-31T14:35:54 < karlp> normal "quality" legal shit is still only 3k divs.
2024-08-31T14:36:01 < karlp> qyx: yeah, as I understand it.
2024-08-31T14:36:31 < karlp> now, you can make a non-met scale, and just present all the adc resolution you like....
2024-08-31T14:36:51 < karlp> and it migh tbe fine for drug dealers who also like baking,
2024-08-31T14:36:57 < karlp> but it's "not proper"
2024-08-31T14:38:08 < karlp> cool though, that company offers it. nice stuff.
2024-08-31T14:38:34 < qyx> your company offers scales for drug dealers?
2024-08-31T14:39:29 < karlp> upgrdman: read the fine print, the min weight on that 0.01g scale is 14g.
2024-08-31T14:39:42 < karlp> you can get 0.01 over that apparently. it's probably still a really nice scale.
2024-08-31T14:39:50 < karlp> almost certainly better than my work shit.
2024-08-31T14:40:22 < karlp> work shit's primary advantages are "can be cleaned with high pressure water" and "can use aggressive cleaners"
2024-08-31T14:40:58 < karlp> qyx: they do some pharma scales, though I believe it's a tiny fraction of business
2024-08-31T14:58:43 < ventYl> when I tried to manufacture PCBs at home I needed rather precise scale, so I went to shop and asked for "drug dealer scale"
2024-08-31T14:59:18 < ventYl> I then explained that I need it for measuring chemicals for PCB manufacturing. I guess that reassured him that I am an extremely dumb drug dealer :>
2024-08-31T15:03:48 < karlp> jewellery scale is the other codename :)
2024-08-31T15:04:01 < karlp> a cousin actually uses it for jewllery
2024-08-31T15:04:07 < karlp> I have one I used to use for weighing out hops
2024-08-31T15:12:47 < qyx> so every single day, except those when I forget, I remove one package from my system
2024-08-31T15:13:17 < fenugrec> start with glibc
2024-08-31T15:13:32 < qyx> 2152 MB of unused packages
2024-08-31T15:14:52 < qyx> removing golang today, 464 MB
2024-08-31T15:29:35 < catphish> are ST moving away from ethernet in STM32? or is it just that it's only in F7 and F7 remains current? i've pretty much only used G series chips recently, and no ethernet to be found
2024-08-31T15:30:01 < qyx> f2, f4, f7, h7, h5 all have ethernet
2024-08-31T15:30:25 < catphish> ah okay, perhaps i need to look at a wider range of chips then
2024-08-31T15:30:27 < qyx> I would say h5/h7 is the "current" ethernet one
2024-08-31T15:30:33 < catphish> are those available now?
2024-08-31T15:30:36 < qyx> yes
2024-08-31T15:30:46 < qyx> I just submitted one h7 design with ethernet 2 minutes ago
2024-08-31T15:31:01 < catphish> last i looked was about a year sgo and those chips seemed not yet available
2024-08-31T15:31:09 < catphish> or maybe h7 was but not h5
2024-08-31T15:31:15 < qyx> h5 is new
2024-08-31T15:31:23 < qyx> but available now
2024-08-31T15:31:34 < catphish> that all makes sense now, perhaps H5 is what i want then
2024-08-31T15:31:40 < qyx> but other than that, all my designs are G4 too
2024-08-31T15:31:50 < qyx> most-mostly
2024-08-31T15:32:02 < catphish> yeah, i usually use G4 for everything, though my current design is G0
2024-08-31T15:33:08 < catphish> G431 is my favourite chip, but this project needs one baord with ethernet, so will have a look at H5
2024-08-31T15:33:47 < qyx> the classic ethernet?
2024-08-31T15:34:09 < qyx> nowdays spi-mac-phys are going back into business
2024-08-31T15:34:28 < qyx> for automotive/10base-t1
2024-08-31T15:35:01 < catphish> this was going to be my next question really - would i be better looking for an AIO ethernet chip with SPI
2024-08-31T15:37:53 < catphish> hopefully i made the right choice with the G030, it's very cheap!
2024-08-31T15:38:42 < catphish> and if i can hook up a G0 or G4 to SPI ethernet, that might be simpler and more cost effective
2024-08-31T15:39:00 < catphish> qyx: any chips in particular you're aware of to do that?
2024-08-31T15:50:14 < qyx> what is AIO
2024-08-31T15:50:41 < catphish> all-in-one
2024-08-31T15:50:55 < catphish> i mean MAC-PHY
2024-08-31T15:52:15 < qyx> ADI has some, microchip too
2024-08-31T15:52:24 < qyx> and fairchild?
2024-08-31T15:52:37 < catphish> i was just looking at microship
2024-08-31T15:52:38 < qyx> no, onsemi, ncn26010
2024-08-31T15:54:26 < catphish> ethernet is weirdly specialist and expensive, it's so odd to me that RF transceivers are actually cheaper in most cases
2024-08-31T15:54:54 < catphish> like, my lora transceivers are going to be half the cost of ethernet, which is a certain kind of madness
2024-08-31T15:58:03 < catphish> NCN26010 looks nice, but i don't want T1S
2024-08-31T15:59:19 < qyx> https://www.oryx-embedded.com/products/CycloneTCP
2024-08-31T15:59:21 < qyx> what's this
2024-08-31T15:59:30 < qyx> I have never seen it
2024-08-31T15:59:37 < qyx> looks complex
2024-08-31T15:59:37 < Steffanx> nothing new though
2024-08-31T15:59:42 < qyx> no?
2024-08-31T15:59:50 < qyx> is it ok Steffanx?
2024-08-31T15:59:56 < catphish> it's just a software network stack, right?
2024-08-31T15:59:58 < Steffanx> idk, i only know its not new
2024-08-31T16:00:22 < qyx> I have exactly one project where its gplv2 fits
2024-08-31T16:00:31 < qyx> I would not hesitate
2024-08-31T16:00:39 < catphish> i thought it was dual licenced
2024-08-31T16:01:03 < catphish> (it is)
2024-08-31T16:01:07 < qyx> it is
2024-08-31T16:01:32 < Steffanx> it is
2024-08-31T16:01:53 < catphish> it is
2024-08-31T16:02:12 < catphish> i looked at it once before, right before i wrote my own :)
2024-08-31T16:08:55 < catphish> ah, wiznet W5500 is still popular and affordable
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2024-08-31T18:43:20 < qyx> the hell is happening in zypland
2024-08-31T18:43:24 < qyx> the princess..
2024-08-31T18:46:56 < zyp> hmm?
2024-08-31T18:50:05 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2024-08-31T18:50:23 < qyx> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjy13kd90vo
2024-08-31T18:51:05 < zyp> ah, she's always been weird
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2024-08-31T19:27:13 < qyx> then it's okay
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2024-08-31T19:52:43 < BrainDamage> qyx: https://satwcomic.com/royal-mess
2024-08-31T19:56:21 < qyx> I should start a Slovakistan comic
2024-08-31T20:02:56 < BrainDamage> blogging about your off-grid experience might be interesting
2024-08-31T20:11:01 < jbo> ye
2024-08-31T20:11:32 < Steffanx> ye
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2024-08-31T21:07:31 < qyx> I plan to.. in the future
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2024-08-31T22:47:27 < Steffanx> Do you ever plan something for the past qyx ?
2024-08-31T22:50:19 < qyx> sometimes
2024-08-31T22:50:35 < qyx> you know, time passes too fast sometimes
2024-08-31T22:50:49 < Steffanx> sometimes = pretty much al the time
2024-08-31T22:54:15 < Steffanx> all
--- Log closed su syys 01 00:00:50 2024