--- Log opened pe marras 01 00:00:09 2024
2024-11-01T00:00:41 < Steffanx> Horror? Comedy? Adult? Name your genre
2024-11-01T00:00:57 < nomorekaki> scifi, fantacy, comedy
2024-11-01T00:04:36 < Steffanx> Netflix?
2024-11-01T00:05:11 < nomorekaki> nope
2024-11-01T00:05:24 < nomorekaki> I just pay per view
2024-11-01T00:06:21 < Steffanx> I see
2024-11-01T00:08:58 < Steffanx> No hard feelings it is. Romance/comedy 😝
2024-11-01T00:09:21 < nomorekaki> saw it
2024-11-01T00:09:56 < nomorekaki> years ago
2024-11-01T00:11:30 < Steffanx> Ok can't help you then. My recent movie collection is small
2024-11-01T00:11:41 < Steffanx> Nothing interesting happening in Hollywood 
2024-11-01T00:12:45 < Steffanx> Also years ago is unlikely. It's not YEARS old 
2024-11-01T00:13:16 < nomorekaki> 2019 or something
2024-11-01T00:13:27 < nomorekaki> oh wait
2024-11-01T00:13:47 < nomorekaki> its the teen vs. jennifer movie
2024-11-01T00:13:59 < nomorekaki> saw it recently yes
2024-11-01T00:14:09 < nomorekaki> it was fun
2024-11-01T00:15:01 < nomorekaki> but see furiosa Steffanx
2024-11-01T00:15:35 < Steffanx> Yes. I wasn't impressed 
2024-11-01T00:15:51 < qyx> do you guys have time to watch movies?
2024-11-01T00:16:03 < Steffanx> You do too qyx 
2024-11-01T00:16:09 < qyx> no
2024-11-01T00:16:11 < qyx> unrouted: 41
2024-11-01T00:16:13 < Steffanx> Yes
2024-11-01T00:16:29 < Steffanx> No one forces you to finish those 41 today
2024-11-01T00:16:34 < Steffanx> Except you
2024-11-01T00:16:52 < Steffanx> It's a matter of priorities 
2024-11-01T00:17:27 < nomorekaki> 24h of prioritized tasks
2024-11-01T00:17:42 < nomorekaki> everything feels like a task
2024-11-01T00:17:42 < Steffanx> I don't like the Mad Max franchise at all nomorekaki 
2024-11-01T00:19:18 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMaVIAlJlnw I have not seen Hardware I guess
2024-11-01T00:24:21 < nomorekaki> wait I have
2024-11-01T00:24:34 < nomorekaki> you maybe enjoy that steff
2024-11-01T00:28:57 < nomorekaki> I was just picking my brain what was that movie
2024-11-01T00:36:01 < nomorekaki> ah sweet somebody has shared it in youtubs quality looks fine
2024-11-01T00:37:55 < nomorekaki> hmm this is not the movie I was trying to rediscover
2024-11-01T00:47:06 < qyx> unrouted 0, 0 errors, 0 warnings \o/
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2024-11-01T00:52:44 < nomorekaki> I think I will go to 1970s scifi before star wars
2024-11-01T00:56:56 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdtZv3XROnc the orginal scifi movie
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2024-11-01T01:01:12 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: you enjoy scifi?
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2024-11-01T01:15:49 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: metropolis has 8.3/10 imdb rating
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2024-11-01T01:30:25 < nomorekaki> I think I need apple tv whatever it is
2024-11-01T01:31:47 < nomorekaki> they actually have the shit I want to see
2024-11-01T01:40:35 < nomorekaki> pay per view
2024-11-01T01:47:32 < nomorekaki> hmm none of these services have everything
2024-11-01T02:05:58 < nomorekaki> scifi short https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cntb3wcZdTw
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2024-11-01T10:17:34 < Steffanx> I was enjoying the inside of my eyes nomorekaki :)
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2024-11-01T12:49:15 < zyp> hrm, so, when I'm doing a fresh build of something that uses C++20 modules, I can just start compiling and let the compiler tell me about dependencies on demand
2024-11-01T12:51:22 < zyp> but when I'm doing a rebuild, I need to know whether any modules changed before knowing whether I have to rebuild or not
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2024-11-01T13:20:39 < zyp> hmm, easy enough to solve, but that has some interesting tradeoffs
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2024-11-01T13:24:05 < zyp> if I modify ethernet.cpp, main.cpp waits until the ethernet module is regenerated before it decides it needs to be rebuilt and starts compiling: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qi7Nj.png
2024-11-01T13:25:22 < zyp> but if I also modify main.cpp so that the build system can spot early that both files needs to be recompiled, it can start immediately on both, which lets it finish earlier since it can do more work in parallel
2024-11-01T13:25:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rywcJ.png
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--- Day changed la marras 02 2024
2024-11-02T00:12:59 < ventYl> zyp: and what's the reason for not using file modification time as a hint?
2024-11-02T00:14:15 < zyp> it does?
2024-11-02T00:15:26 < zyp> the point is, you can't go look at whether the file is modified or not before it is written
2024-11-02T00:16:03 < zyp> (potentially)
2024-11-02T00:17:13 < zyp> and since you're asking, you're probably missing the main point: the reason this is a challenge is because you don't know ahead of time which file will export a given module
2024-11-02T00:19:07 < ventYl> oh
2024-11-02T00:19:09 < ventYl> that sucks
2024-11-02T00:20:13 < zyp> the main reason I wrote my own build system was to come up with something that can deal with modules in a sane way
2024-11-02T00:20:30 < zyp> I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out
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2024-11-02T01:06:52 < nomorekaki> hello midnight?
2024-11-02T01:07:25 < ventYl> fuckin templatized midnight
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2024-11-02T01:12:49 < nomorekaki> how is ventYl?
2024-11-02T01:15:01 < ventYl> too much work, too little money
2024-11-02T01:18:09 < nomorekaki> seems to be the theme
2024-11-02T01:21:18 < ventYl> normally I wouldn't give a damn as my running costs are pretty low
2024-11-02T01:25:08 < qyx> nah
2024-11-02T01:31:28 < nomorekaki> normally pretty low?
2024-11-02T01:32:30 < ventYl> yeah I don't buy much of fancy shit
2024-11-02T01:32:39 < ventYl> have no loans, etc.
2024-11-02T01:42:07 < nomorekaki> imagine having loans
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2024-11-02T01:44:51 < ventYl> that's hard one
2024-11-02T01:45:51 < nomorekaki> see the bill go up 3x or something
2024-11-02T01:46:42 < ventYl> i've had mortgage
2024-11-02T01:47:20 < nomorekaki> but not probably had monthly bill jump 3x
2024-11-02T01:50:28 < ventYl> more like 75 to 100%
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--- Day changed su marras 03 2024
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2024-11-03T02:43:36 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FGbWEucEXoAAiH84.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2024-11-03T02:43:54 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FGbYeAfnXwAAzv9O.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2024-11-03T02:52:43 < nomorekaki> hyperlurence
2024-11-03T03:11:00 < Laurenceb_> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1852045344563171334/vid/avc1/720x1280/l3pfUQ_EGaKOgIg4.mp4?tag=16
2024-11-03T03:14:23 < Laurenceb_> apocalypse ball looks lame https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FGbSnKIaW4AAp3qu.jpg
2024-11-03T03:20:22 < Laurenceb_> squirrel war now
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2024-11-03T12:47:04 < qyx> karlp: grindavik opened for tourists?
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2024-11-03T14:02:46 < zyp> wtf, gdb doesn't understand symboles with module linkage
2024-11-03T14:03:58 < zyp> or, module linkage is probably not the right term, but having the module name in the symbol
2024-11-03T14:04:17 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/OnoY6
2024-11-03T14:05:07 < zyp> the symbol format is apparently symbol@module, and gdb will happily list and tabcomplete them, but accessing a name with an @ in it doesn't work
2024-11-03T14:05:28 < zyp> but accessing the mangled symbol name works
2024-11-03T14:14:15 < jpa-> does it work if you put it in ' ' ticks?
2024-11-03T14:14:30 < zyp> ah, yes
2024-11-03T14:14:42 < zyp> I tried "" and \@ before, but neither of those worked
2024-11-03T14:15:24 < zyp> kinda annoying that the completion doesn't add those if it's needed
2024-11-03T14:42:52 < zyp> this is also fucking bullshit: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/gJu1a
2024-11-03T14:43:13 < zyp> the fuck do you mean «unknown type»
2024-11-03T14:47:45 < zyp> if I put an «extern "C++"» on log_buf to drop the module stuff in the symbol, there's no issue with the type either: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/BQHkZ
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2024-11-03T19:09:04 < karlp> qyx: yeah, still not recommended for children, not recommended to sleep, "please show respect to people's property" (even though most of them have been sold to the state now) all because there's a fishjing company that wants to keep landing in the harbour there and "the harbour isfine!"
2024-11-03T19:09:19 < karlp> we're still on track to build a great big ghetto there.
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2024-11-03T20:28:13 < qyx> karlp: the state has bought the houses as a compensation to the people?
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2024-11-03T21:25:06 < karlp> yeah, it's the excuse we'ðre using for "no we're not doign anything about inflation, look, it's grindavik's fault"
2024-11-03T21:25:23 < karlp> but they're talking about opening the fucking pool there so that people have things to do.
2024-11-03T21:25:29 < karlp> I don't understand it at all.
2024-11-03T21:25:48 < karlp> they've still got huge chunks of taped off "don't walk anywhere near here, there's open fissures below the surface" through the town.
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2024-11-03T22:01:59 < qyx> why do you grumble about your gov when it is one of the bestest in the world probably
2024-11-03T22:02:07 < qyx> is the whole world the same?
2024-11-03T22:02:33 < qyx> in other news, zyp, see what I have just found https://rpishop.cz/498837/odroid-m1s-s-8gb-ram-bez-io-headeru/
2024-11-03T22:03:10 < qyx> a 1W idle rockchip quadcore with 8G lpddr4, 64G emmc and a nvme socket for 80 eur
2024-11-03T22:03:44 < qyx> with a couple of those I could run a home cluster for my VMs and a few TB ceph
2024-11-03T22:12:15 < karlp> m1s was on my drawing board for a nas, but I ended up with just the qnap instead.
2024-11-03T22:12:26 < karlp> was too much homebrew again
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2024-11-03T22:48:06 < zyp> qyx, kinda cute
--- Day changed ma marras 04 2024
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2024-11-04T00:24:48 < zyp> brought up the LTDC on the H7S, kinda tricky to get right, lots of opportunity for off by ones
2024-11-04T00:24:53 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ssFrh.jpg
2024-11-04T00:26:10 < zyp> planning to poke at the GPU2D thing in it
2024-11-04T00:26:49 < zyp> ST calls it NeoChrom, but it's apparently a Think Silicon NEMA pico VG 1000
2024-11-04T00:26:57 < zyp> https://www.think-silicon.com/nema-pico-vg
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2024-11-04T00:54:26 < fenugrec> has doom been ported to that yet
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2024-11-04T01:24:57 < ALTracer> it's not a 3D GPU, can you really run a raycaster on it? framebuffer, sure https://www.think-silicon.com/managed_images/products/pico-vg/architecture.svg
2024-11-04T01:28:01 < zyp> 2D is just flattened 3D
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2024-11-04T01:58:55 < zyp> hmm, I got the NEMA SDK integrated and to initialize and I'm trying to get it to draw something into the framebuffer I set up earlier, but nothing shows up
2024-11-04T02:00:09 < zyp> then again, I haven't finished the glue layer for the SDK
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2024-11-04T02:17:50 < fenugrec> why do I keep using Makefiles. It sucks every single time
2024-11-04T02:18:12 < zyp> wanna switch to erect? :)
2024-11-04T02:19:09 < fenugrec> heh
2024-11-04T02:30:28 < fenugrec> no, I just need to kick myself and take one minute to configure a cmake project
2024-11-04T02:36:52 < qyx> nah cmake
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2024-11-04T11:26:47 < karlp> I've never really been happy with cmake,even with "clean, modern, do only the right things"
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2024-11-04T12:10:07 < mawk> yeah I prefer makefiles
2024-11-04T12:10:09 < mawk> that's what I write for my own projects
2024-11-04T12:10:19 < mawk> or autotools because I have a spiritual duty to use it as my two of my teachers wrote some of its components
2024-11-04T12:22:32 < qyx> hush
2024-11-04T12:51:59 < mawk> what's wrong with autotools qyx 
2024-11-04T12:54:22 < jpa-> finnish media says that icelanders only work 4 days a week, is this true karlp?
2024-11-04T13:19:21 < karlp> I don't even know where that story started.
2024-11-04T13:20:20 < karlp> we've had a "shortening work week" program for the last two years as part of trade union agreements, it means we're mostly at ~35 hours per week, which in some fields is normally turned into either a day off a month, or early leves on fridays or something
2024-11-04T13:20:38 < karlp> but "hur hur 4 days" is just pure fantasy, i can't even think where that came from.
2024-11-04T13:21:00 < karlp> it's about as real as " hur hur, iceland locked up all the banksters after GFC"
2024-11-04T13:27:36 < jpa-> what, you didn't do that either? i'm so disappointed
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2024-11-04T13:40:48 < mawk> 35h is the norm in France
2024-11-04T13:40:56 < mawk> but still 5 days a week
2024-11-04T13:41:02 < qyx> lazy westerners
2024-11-04T13:41:27 < mawk> the productivity increase is greater than the time "lost"
2024-11-04T13:41:34 < mawk> so it's beneficial
2024-11-04T13:41:57 < mawk> need to go even lower than 35
2024-11-04T13:42:21 < qyx> it would be enough to work 3h every day during the night
2024-11-04T13:43:10 < jpa-> here the norm is 37.5 hours, except a few years back when they decided to increase it to 37.9615 hours, causing havoc in hour tracking systems and strikes that ended up reducing the actual number of hours worked
2024-11-04T13:45:25 < jpa-> now the government increased VAT from 24% to 25.5%, again wreaking havoc in systems that couldn't handle decimals
2024-11-04T13:45:45 < qyx> 25.5% VAT?
2024-11-04T13:45:51 < qyx> the hell
2024-11-04T13:46:22 < karlp> yeah, it's abotu the same here.
2024-11-04T13:46:23 < qyx> here they increased it from 20 to 23
2024-11-04T13:46:33 < qyx> but we are poor
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2024-11-04T15:14:26 < jbo> hello
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2024-11-04T15:31:27 < fenugrec> re cmake : may be not perfect, but in 2 minutes I had something that tracks dependencies / rebuilds properly, sane CFLAGS handling, linking with '-lm' . gtfo makefile 'implicit rules', those are never useful
2024-11-04T15:40:46 < Steffanx> Welcome jbo
2024-11-04T15:40:53 < karlp> fenugrec: you mean this joy? https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/blob/master/rules.mk#L112-L121
2024-11-04T15:49:25 < fenugrec> lol at CSV and RCS leftover handling
2024-11-04T15:49:28 < fenugrec> *CVS
2024-11-04T15:49:50 < karlp> I measured actaul speedups from those lines :)
2024-11-04T15:50:17 < karlp> I was diagnosing something else and tracing it's deps, and saw it continually probing for cvs and rcs existing for ~everything
2024-11-04T15:51:00 < fenugrec> even when files had no $Id lines or traces of CVS ? that's mental
2024-11-04T15:51:11 < karlp> "We recommend that you avoid using of SCCS. RCS is widely held to be superior, and is also free. "
2024-11-04T15:51:19 < fenugrec> HEH
2024-11-04T15:51:25 < karlp> they're not looking at file contents, just file names and mod times.
2024-11-04T15:51:32 < karlp> make's never looked at contents.
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2024-11-04T19:02:50 < jbo> zyp
2024-11-04T19:04:30 < zyp> yeah?
2024-11-04T19:05:17 < jbo> I'm considering to reconsider
2024-11-04T19:05:51 < zyp> reconsidering
2024-11-04T19:06:16 < jbo> oh, you want me to reconsider considering to reconsider?
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2024-11-04T19:38:10 < Steffanx> Just let jpa consider for you.
2024-11-04T19:51:22 < zyp> I would also consider that
2024-11-04T19:52:26 < jpa-> i consider that jbo shouldn't bother zyp
2024-11-04T19:53:34 < jbo> :(
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2024-11-04T20:12:32 < Steffanx> lol
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2024-11-04T20:15:03 < bitmask> I cant decide between the m4 pro and max
2024-11-04T20:18:47 < jbo> ohno
2024-11-04T20:23:02 < Steffanx> lol bitmask is a moneyed westener nowadays?
2024-11-04T20:23:08 < Steffanx> Still training AIs?
2024-11-04T20:23:14 < bitmask> hah, yea
2024-11-04T20:23:39 < bitmask> well I dont really pay rent right now, but thats coming in the next couple months
2024-11-04T20:23:50 < Steffanx> i see
2024-11-04T20:25:43 < bitmask> the max is $1100 more. it really just depends on if I think I'm going to play around with LLMs or not
2024-11-04T20:26:09 < Steffanx> what device is this? Macbook pro?
2024-11-04T20:26:16 < bitmask> yea
2024-11-04T20:26:44 < bitmask> if I want to use LLMs then i'll want the 64 gb unified memory and 500+ memory bandwidth
2024-11-04T20:26:54 < bitmask> if not, then the 48gb slower memory will be fine
2024-11-04T20:27:49 < Steffanx> if you have $1100 laying around to play around, then yeah why not :D
2024-11-04T20:28:22 < bitmask> yea thats kinda my thought. I'm already spending at least $3500, whats another 1k
2024-11-04T20:28:40 < bitmask> and this laptop lasted me 10 years, I don't upgrade a lot
2024-11-04T20:28:57 < bitmask> and its something I use more than anything else so why not spend a lot :)
2024-11-04T20:29:31 < bitmask> there just sounds like a huge difference between 3500 and 4600
2024-11-04T20:30:20 < Steffanx> Yeah 1.1k :P
2024-11-04T20:31:46 < fenugrec> what do equivalent-specs PC laptopts sell for
2024-11-04T20:32:10 < bitmask> I think thats a tough question to answer now with apple silicon, but probably half? :P
2024-11-04T20:37:13 < bitmask> I still dont know if I care about AI, but lets say I do. An nvidia 4090 has 24GB ram and costs 2-3k by itself. the mac has 64gb with 48 that can be used for gpu stuff. the 4090 has twice the memory bandwidth of the mac, which is still like 8x regular high end system memory
2024-11-04T20:38:25 < bitmask> though nvidia has cuda
2024-11-04T20:38:36 < bitmask> but mac supposedly has something new to compete
2024-11-04T20:40:46 < bitmask> maybe I'll just get the m4 pro macbook pro and then build a pc with 2x 4090s :)
2024-11-04T20:50:10 < Steffanx> Sounds like you need an m4 max macbook and a pc with at least 2x 4090 :P
2024-11-04T20:50:55 < bitmask> haha
2024-11-04T20:51:03 < bitmask> you are a bad influence
2024-11-04T20:51:08 < jbo> yes
2024-11-04T20:54:51 < Steffanx> You are bitmask, im almost considering buying a mac mini now.
2024-11-04T20:59:49 < jbo> run bSD
2024-11-04T20:59:56 < bitmask> :)
2024-11-04T21:00:45 < zyp> darwin is the only usable bsd
2024-11-04T21:00:55 < Steffanx> yeah no, i know who maintains/maintained the kicad package... and some other things as well
2024-11-04T21:01:12 < Steffanx> *port
2024-11-04T21:04:48 < Steffanx> Hi jbo. How's your day?
2024-11-04T21:05:27 < jbo> going well, thanks!
2024-11-04T21:05:30 < jbo> how about yours, Steffanx?
2024-11-04T21:06:15 < Steffanx> Could be better, could be works. Thanks as well!
2024-11-04T21:06:36 < jbo> I'm always there to talk, buddy!
2024-11-04T21:07:00 < qyx> no it can't be worse
2024-11-04T21:07:08 < Steffanx> \o/
2024-11-04T21:07:11 < qyx> lunatics all over the place
2024-11-04T21:07:21 < qyx> where the hell do I live
2024-11-04T21:07:22 < Steffanx> *worse
2024-11-04T21:07:47 < Steffanx> No politics today qyx . Go full zen mode please
2024-11-04T21:08:38 < qyx> not talking about politics today
2024-11-04T21:08:49 < jbo> things are shit here too, qyx - don't worry
2024-11-04T21:10:53 < Steffanx> Why?
2024-11-04T21:14:15 < jbo> Steffanx
2024-11-04T21:14:29 < Steffanx> Hi
2024-11-04T21:14:33 < jbo> hoi
2024-11-04T21:14:39 < Steffanx> Veel goed?
2024-11-04T21:17:32 < qyx> so, do we have any new aisler alternatives?
2024-11-04T21:17:42 < jpa-> jbofab
2024-11-04T21:17:49 < Steffanx> jlc still does it's job.
2024-11-04T21:18:08 < jbo> jbofap was running hard last week
2024-11-04T21:18:19 < Steffanx> is jbofab a eurocircuits reseller?
2024-11-04T21:22:50 < zyp> jbo, preparing for november?
2024-11-04T21:23:22 < jbo> -__-
2024-11-04T21:33:27 < Steffanx> ohno whats happening this month?
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2024-11-04T21:45:20 < qyx> nah
2024-11-04T21:52:47 < qyx> any reason why using a mosfet power stage (CSD95379Q3M) as a line driver is a bad idea?
2024-11-04T21:53:02 < qyx> besides no pulse shaping, ringing, emc issues, etc.
2024-11-04T21:53:05 < zyp> line driver?
2024-11-04T21:53:19 < qyx> I need to transfer data over two wires together with power
2024-11-04T21:53:41 < qyx> my current intention is to use "power packets" which are long dummy packets with all 1s
2024-11-04T21:54:02 < qyx> and the power sourcing unit will use a high-current driver to drive the data/vdd line
2024-11-04T21:54:13 < qyx> I am targetting 5V/1A max
2024-11-04T21:54:25 < zyp> remember that bootstrap circuits rely on not driving high state for longer than the capacitor lasts
2024-11-04T21:54:45 < zyp> which for a H-bridge means not driving a single state for too long
2024-11-04T21:54:46 < qyx> yeah power packets would be interleaved with breaks
2024-11-04T21:54:59 < qyx> used for framing
2024-11-04T21:55:59 < qyx> hm, other units (power-sinks only) could use a simple logic buffer as a driver, 25 mA push-pull should be enough
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2024-11-05T04:34:06 < aandrew> I wonder what you can make an rs485 driver put out for current without frying it, they're pretty damn bulletproof but I doubt 5W bulletproof
2024-11-05T04:34:32 < aandrew> I mean if you only need 25mA, RS485 seems like a done deal
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2024-11-05T04:48:49 < zyp> I would expect decent RS485 drivers to be designed to withstand bus shorts
2024-11-05T04:49:25 < zyp> e.g. THVD1424 states it limits current to 250mA
2024-11-05T04:50:07 < zyp> normal output current is rated for 60mA
2024-11-05T04:55:49 < zyp> qyx, is this point to point? otherwise seems like you'd have issues with other devices attempting to consume each other's responses
2024-11-05T05:06:56 < aandrew> huh I just discovered 10" cases
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2024-11-05T07:51:15 < qyx> zyp: I was thinking about it a bit, all receivers will have a schottky to a capacitor keeping them powered during zeroes, so there is about 0.3 V drop + any drop caused by the driver used to drive the data bus
2024-11-05T07:52:29 < qyx> so the driving level will always be lower than their power supply voltage which should cause any troubles at least until the capacitor voltage drops enough
2024-11-05T07:54:11 < qyx> and no, I need 1 A for arbitrary loads on the nodes
2024-11-05T08:48:32 < jpa-> if driving level will be lower, i would use P-mosfet for the idle time between packets and for actual packets use a regular driver that does slew rate control etc.
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2024-11-05T09:08:14 < qyx> the catch is the power source is not necessarily the same as the bus master
2024-11-05T09:20:23 < jpa-> should still work, if the power source will detect when packets are in motion, and other nodes will detect when power source periodically releases the bus
2024-11-05T09:21:16 < jpa-> in any case it seems like a bad idea to mix the power feeding driver with the data transfer driver, they have quite different requirements in your setup
2024-11-05T09:22:42 < qyx> hm yeah I could do a "power idle bus pause" packet saying how long exactly will be bus driven high afterwards
2024-11-05T09:23:30 < qyx> and during that period whoever wants can drive the bus to 5V to source power
2024-11-05T09:23:38 < qyx> and nobody can transmit
2024-11-05T09:31:16 < qyx> and for the driver I could use one half of rs485
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2024-11-05T11:23:32 < karlp> lame, tried to join a nxp webinar and they've just gone "nope, chrome/edge only"
2024-11-05T11:23:44 < karlp> been watching webinars and shit for ages. even fucking teams works in firefox.
2024-11-05T11:25:58 < karlp> well, they asked for feedback, so they can have it.
2024-11-05T11:26:11 < karlp> also, not nxp, nexperia. blame the right party...
2024-11-05T11:36:54 < qyx> living in 2015 when webrtc was not a thing in firefox?
2024-11-05T11:37:04 < qyx> but edge neither
2024-11-05T12:44:51 < karlp> If you are in a locked down environment (meaning that you are not able/allowed to download the software to your computer) and you need to join a webinar, you can download our free GoTo mobile app
2024-11-05T12:45:13 < karlp> lol. use your les secured device to download something you're not allowed to normally and use that instead! what a great idea!
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2024-11-05T15:21:10 < jbo> haiiii
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2024-11-05T22:32:14 < qyx> how much retarded is to do software ethernet switching using SPI PHY-MACs?
2024-11-05T22:33:11 < qyx> *idea
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2024-11-05T22:53:07 < qyx> nah I'll give that SJA1105 a try
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2024-11-05T23:09:28 < karlp> sja1110d, get 100baset1 ? :)
2024-11-05T23:11:51 < qyx> yeah that one is interesting for another board (SFP port + 10 port backplane 100base-t1 + some copper ports)
2024-11-05T23:12:05 < qyx> but now I need 10base-t1s, at least 4 ports
2024-11-05T23:12:47 < qyx> re SJA1110, microchip has a similar part, although with less ports iirc
2024-11-05T23:13:08 < qyx> I need to check which one is less hassle to configure
2024-11-05T23:22:07 < qyx> huh what is STM32G414
2024-11-05T23:23:16 < qyx> oh marketing status Restricted
2024-11-05T23:24:15 < qyx> so there is no G4 with 6x U(S)ART in a 48 pin package
2024-11-05T23:24:22 < qyx> only in 64 pin QFP
2024-11-05T23:26:41 < qyx> no BGA100 either on mouser
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2024-11-06T15:23:47 < machinehum> Sup
2024-11-06T15:24:03 < machinehum> Anyone here done embedded Linux dsi video stuff?
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2024-11-06T19:32:21 < aandrew> machinehum: some - what do you want to know?
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2024-11-06T21:16:18 < machinehum> aandrew: Trying to get dsi working but it's not going, have the phy driver and drm display driver both probing fine without issue
2024-11-06T21:17:38 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/raw/LwHDExz6
2024-11-06T21:18:28 < machinehum> Basically I'm lost because none of these drivers are throwing any error, or dmesg'ing anything
2024-11-06T21:19:03 < machinehum> So I think I could be missing something else, potentially something in between drm and mipi?
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2024-11-06T23:26:42 < fenugrec> is there some secret advantage to 3:1 ratio heatshrink tubing instead of 4:1 ? why not always buy 4:1 ? the few I've checked end up with ~ same wall thickness, and ~ same price
2024-11-06T23:27:18 < qyx> theres also 2:1
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2024-11-06T23:40:02 < fenugrec> yes, even less versatile
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2024-11-07T01:04:48 < nomorekaki> midnight hello
2024-11-07T01:07:44 < qyx> ehlo
2024-11-07T01:09:44 < nomorekaki> what boards you making qyx?
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2024-11-07T01:17:27 < qyx> some rs485 interfaces to drive customer legacy stuff
2024-11-07T01:19:28 < nomorekaki> doesnt sound too complicated
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2024-11-07T14:40:55 < jpa-> has anyone tried using gcc -fsanitize=undefined on stm32?
2024-11-07T14:41:56 < jpa-> (or more precisely, getting libubsan built and fit)
2024-11-07T14:42:18 < jpa-> hmm, https://github.com/rdmsr/tinyubsan looks useful
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2024-11-07T14:55:01 < karlp> heh. so. you ahve an "encoder input" like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/heQuw.png
2024-11-07T14:56:51 < karlp> looks fine. but then....  on another sheet.... this wonder https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IsFdO.png
2024-11-07T14:57:16 < karlp> as best I can tell, this was to use one less pin on a design from years past that was out of pins.
2024-11-07T14:57:28 < jpa-> what's wrong?
2024-11-07T14:57:37 < karlp> and "motors only go forwards" so one pulse train was enough
2024-11-07T14:57:42 < jpa-> assuming it really is tachometer and not encoder?
2024-11-07T14:57:42 < jpa-> ah
2024-11-07T14:58:12 < karlp> it's connected to encoders, "always" and is labelled encoder on the connector itself.
2024-11-07T14:58:37 < karlp> so this trick of using a can transceiver to level convert and convert to single ended is just... wat?
2024-11-07T14:58:53 < jpa-> well it was clearly designed for differential tachometer
2024-11-07T14:59:22 < jpa-> so a can tranceiver to read it doesn't sound too weird, though usually i see RS482/RS422 converters used for the purpose
2024-11-07T14:59:32 < karlp> that's indeed what the text says, but no-one hear can ever remember connecting anything other than an encoder
2024-11-07T14:59:44 < zyp> I mean, the connector labelling is consistent
2024-11-07T14:59:57 < zyp> it says A+/A- on the signals, not A and B
2024-11-07T15:00:02  * karlp shrugs
2024-11-07T15:00:03 < jpa-> requirements changed, someone just plugged in an encoder and saw that it works
2024-11-07T15:00:15 < zyp> so you'd use only one pair of a differential QE
2024-11-07T15:00:49 < zyp> if you connect it to A/B, you'll get weird results
2024-11-07T15:01:09 < jpa-> i guess it will kinda work with A/B connected, though noise margin is pretty bad
2024-11-07T15:01:38 < karlp> well ok then. 
2024-11-07T15:01:40 < zyp> it'll work fine, but you'll get 75% duty, or 25%
2024-11-07T15:02:10 < zyp> 75%.
2024-11-07T15:03:09 < zyp> I figure 00, 11 and 01 will register as high, 10 will register as low
2024-11-07T15:04:21 < jpa-> depends on if the CAN tranceiver hysteresis or the PTC/bias-pull-up ratio is larger
2024-11-07T15:04:54 < zyp> remember that CAN doesn't do negative differential
2024-11-07T15:06:35 < jpa-> oh
2024-11-07T15:06:54 < jpa-> that makes the choice of CAN tranceiver instead of RS485/RS422 a bit weird :)
2024-11-07T15:07:03 < zyp> transceiver datasheet says the threshold is 700mV differential ±50mV hysteresis
2024-11-07T15:07:52 < zyp> so 10 is the only state that'll go above that
2024-11-07T15:08:21 < zyp> wait, wtf is up with those biasing resistors
2024-11-07T15:08:54 < jpa-> i think i'm not the only one who thought CAN tranceiver has threshold at 0V differential :)
2024-11-07T15:10:20 < zyp> should still work, I guess
2024-11-07T15:17:53 < zyp> speaking of transceivers; what's the cheapest RS485 transceiver around with separate VIO rail?
2024-11-07T15:19:04 < zyp> I like THVD1424, but it's overkill and I rather want to have two half-duplex transceivers than a switchable half/full
2024-11-07T15:19:46 < zyp> TI part picker suggests THVD1400V, anything better?
2024-11-07T15:27:11 < qyx> I am using thvd1450 but I don't remember the reason and it doesn't have vio
2024-11-07T15:27:41 < qyx> but itis 3v3
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2024-11-07T15:46:10 < karlp> ok, I hat eit less, but I still found it very confusing.
2024-11-07T15:46:26 < karlp> that has not been helped by how it was documented here though, so thank you for clarifying that's it not intrinsically dumb.
2024-11-07T15:47:27 < karlp> we've made it work feeding it 2x3v3 PWM from an esp32 with differenty duty.
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2024-11-07T17:53:33 < jbo> hello
2024-11-07T18:52:32 < qyx> ohla
2024-11-07T18:52:42  * qyx unrouted: 214
2024-11-07T18:53:34 < jbo> fun
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2024-11-07T20:25:40 < fenugrec> wasn't that number lower a few days ago
2024-11-07T20:40:47 < qyx> that was the previous one
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2024-11-08T00:03:58 < Steffanx> Night crew reporting, nomorekaki 
2024-11-08T00:04:18 < nomorekaki> hello steff
2024-11-08T00:04:31 < nomorekaki> you have movies for us?
2024-11-08T00:05:06 < Steffanx> No sir 
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2024-11-08T00:10:30 < nomorekaki> space truckers was good fun
2024-11-08T00:29:01 < jbo> steff
2024-11-08T00:31:14 < zyp> sup
2024-11-08T00:31:29 < jbo> everything is awesome
2024-11-08T00:33:31 < zyp> had a fun task at work yesterday, coworker had some devices that failed in the field and wanted to recover data that they store in their internal flash, and they were locked/protected
2024-11-08T00:34:35 < zyp> so I got to do some fault injection to bypass that stuff
2024-11-08T00:34:47 < antto> h4x0r
2024-11-08T00:34:52 < zyp> yup
2024-11-08T00:35:26 < antto> i'm butchering a program: https://i.imgur.com/8WFZSh2.png
2024-11-08T00:36:01 < zyp> not sure why we even bother locking devices when security is so easy to bypass, I had 18 devices and got them all dumped
2024-11-08T00:36:42 < antto> do you mean like "code protection" stuff on MCUs?
2024-11-08T00:36:54 < zyp> yes
2024-11-08T00:36:58 < jbo> zyp, indeed seems to be rarely worth it
2024-11-08T00:37:06 < jbo> integrity checks - sure
2024-11-08T00:37:26 < antto> well, i'm not a h4x0r, if i attach debugger and it says it can't read it - i'll give up
2024-11-08T00:38:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4bLWp.png
2024-11-08T00:38:31 < antto> what's even going on
2024-11-08T00:38:45 < zyp> I spent most time just getting the devices hooked up, they're so small they don't have any connectors, just test points
2024-11-08T00:38:48 < antto> oh, circular PCB, my condolences
2024-11-08T00:39:01 < antto> now don't tell me it's 30mm diameter too
2024-11-08T00:39:06 < zyp> less
2024-11-08T00:39:10 < antto> aww
2024-11-08T00:39:24 < antto> i hate that
2024-11-08T00:39:24 < jbo> can I have more random cables lying around please?
2024-11-08T00:39:44 < antto> i doubt they're random
2024-11-08T00:40:28 < antto> that cable situation reminds me of my source code ;P~
2024-11-08T00:40:31  * antto hides
2024-11-08T00:42:01 < qyx> are those old spark plug cables
2024-11-08T00:43:38 < antto> oh, i think i begin to understand what's going on
2024-11-08T00:43:54 < antto> third_hand^1024
2024-11-08T00:44:34 < antto> i suspect there's pogo pins on those things?
2024-11-08T00:53:05 < zyp> https://sensepeek.com/
2024-11-08T00:53:19 < zyp> they're awesome
2024-11-08T00:54:55 < zyp> anyway, I'm just hooking up gnd/vcc/swdio/swclk, as well as the decoupling cap for the core voltage of the mcu, where I apply a glitch to inject a fault that bypasses security
2024-11-08T00:58:28 < zyp> there were a surprising variation of timing between the devices, probably variations in capacitance and similar, so I had to tune the timing for each
2024-11-08T01:01:56 < nomorekaki> how repeatable such fault is?
2024-11-08T01:09:02 < zyp> repeatable how?
2024-11-08T01:12:12 < zyp> I successfully dumped 18 of 18 units yesterday, once the timing is dialled in it tends to take at most a few tens of attempts to glitch it
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2024-11-08T01:12:43 < zyp> an attempt takes like a second, so we're talking seconds
2024-11-08T01:13:24 < zyp> too many attempts without hitting it, I tweak the timing a bit and try again
2024-11-08T01:13:42 < fenugrec> nice work. Been meaning to try that (and/or side channel analysis) but haven't needed it bad enough. Some targets can turn into a multi-week/month project
2024-11-08T01:15:12 < zyp> this is nrf52, I already did this on a different device last year (not for work), so I already had a reliable method
2024-11-08T01:17:18 < zyp> https://limitedresults.com/2020/06/nrf52-debug-resurrection-approtect-bypass/
2024-11-08T01:17:40 < zyp> except I didn't have to remove any capacitors, works well enough leaving them in place
2024-11-08T01:19:51 < zyp> scope on DEC1, like the cyan channel here: https://i0.wp.com/limitedresults.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/before_Flash.png?w=1024&ssl=1, the little drop followed by the reduction of voltage is pretty recognizable
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2024-11-08T01:20:50 < zyp> then have a FET glitch it to ground right before the slope down there
2024-11-08T01:22:13 < zyp> when I initially did this I wrote a little glitch generator for orbtrace that just pulses a gpio for a configurable length, a configurable delay after power is turned on: https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/commit/2854fff0678e507fdb58f9a94f4566587eebe178
2024-11-08T01:22:40 < zyp> so I just have that gpio drive a nfet placed across the DEC1 cap
2024-11-08T01:24:07 < zyp> microsecond pulse, roughly two milliseconds after poweron, use scope to tune it to the right spot
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2024-11-08T12:27:20 < qyx> 62 \o/
2024-11-08T12:27:30 < qyx> zyp: that's interesting, is it that easy?
2024-11-08T12:34:05 < Steffanx> They did fix it I recall
2024-11-08T12:34:18 < zyp> qyx, yes
2024-11-08T12:35:10 < zyp> Steffanx, yes, new generation has some changes that makes just working with the chip a lot more hassle
2024-11-08T12:40:03 < Steffanx> New generation of nrf52 or are you talking about nrf53 and up?
2024-11-08T12:52:58 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Xj3pZ/Screenshot_2024-11-08_11-52-34.png
2024-11-08T12:53:27 < qyx> is it more right to make it "symmetrical" or to minimize diff capacitance?
2024-11-08T12:59:55 < qyx> ha, unrouted 0
2024-11-08T13:26:02 < jpa-> qyx: symmetrical doesn't matter AFAIK
2024-11-08T13:26:13 < jpa-> nor different capacitance either
2024-11-08T13:26:23 < jpa-> i would just minimize loop area, like you have done
2024-11-08T13:27:09 < jpa-> not sure if it would be better to have the cap GNDs connect together directly, to further reduce the loop where noise can couple in or out
2024-11-08T13:27:19 < zyp> it's not differential, so neither symmetry nor diff capacitance matters
2024-11-08T13:27:54 < zyp> it's a loop, not two halves running the same direction
2024-11-08T13:28:38 < qyx> so minimal loop area
2024-11-08T13:30:41 < qyx> ok connected the caps together
2024-11-08T13:42:31 < zyp> hmm, I'm trying to get the XSPI peripheral to talk to the ram on the h7s7 discovery
2024-11-08T13:43:09 < qyx> hyperram?
2024-11-08T13:43:16 < qyx> xspi is the 16bit one?
2024-11-08T13:43:22 < zyp> shit doesn't work and I have no idea why, and with both the MCU and the RAM being BGA I can't look at the signals either
2024-11-08T13:43:26 < zyp> yeah
2024-11-08T13:44:02 < zyp> it's hexaspi, similar to dual-wide hyperram, not sure what the exact differences are
2024-11-08T13:44:40 < qyx> "make a 16 bit bus and call it serial to be cool"
2024-11-08T13:46:44 < qyx> finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/UZG0q/Screenshot_2024-11-08_12-46-27.png
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2024-11-08T14:03:11 < c10ud> clean
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2024-11-08T16:14:14 < fenugrec> anybody recognize this type of switch ? going through DK catalog now and not finding something similar https://assets.katogroup.eu/i/katogroup/FESW16-5-7_01_fenix-schakelaar-fesw16-5-7-d1?%24product-image%24=&fmt=auto&h=434&w=652
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2024-11-08T16:32:42 < fenugrec> ah, probably "omten 1288" according to some phorums
2024-11-08T16:47:33 < fenugrec> nop, wrong dimensions.
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2024-11-08T17:49:18 < jbo> zyp
2024-11-08T18:07:29 < fenugrec> "YT-1413-YK" more like it. Can't even find it on lcsc from a named manufacturer, only ali* peddlers
2024-11-08T18:14:56 < qyx> do you need the exact one
2024-11-08T18:15:06 < qyx> some common tact switch woulnd't fit?
2024-11-08T18:15:24 < qyx> just match the height properly
2024-11-08T18:18:52 < fenugrec> it needs to be 'latching' not the typical momentary tact switch, that reduces choice immensely
2024-11-08T18:19:06 < fenugrec> and correct, height is the critical dimension, so long as outer dims are "close enough"
2024-11-08T18:21:50 < qyx> oh latching
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2024-11-08T19:48:32 < fenugrec> aka toggle, yes
2024-11-08T19:50:15 < fenugrec> eh, I'm risking the princely sum of 5$ and trying some ali* junk. Can't be worse than the switch I'm replacing
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2024-11-08T20:50:33 < zyp> jbo jbo jbo
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2024-11-08T21:13:19 < jbo> now I don't want anymore :<
2024-11-08T21:35:29 < zyp> so you say
2024-11-08T21:36:05 < zyp> then you can tell me why my XSPI doesn't work
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2024-11-08T21:38:09 < zyp> I've looked through everything for register settings that needs to be set that I've missed, but I can't find anything
2024-11-08T21:38:29 < zyp> and I've looked through example/HAL code and it seems to be doing the exact things that I am
2024-11-08T21:40:18 < jbo> did you send the setup commands (if needed?)
2024-11-08T21:40:25 < jbo> like with sdram over FMC you have to initialize/configure the SDRAM device
2024-11-08T21:41:21 < zyp> the issue is that it fails even before that point
2024-11-08T21:42:31 < zyp> I'm trying to read the config registers of the device, but I'm getting nothing
2024-11-08T21:42:49 < jbo> uhm...
2024-11-08T21:43:02 < jbo> so the usual stuff is:  peripheral clock enable, GPIO settings, ...
2024-11-08T21:43:16 < jbo> you can't really probe the signals, yes?
2024-11-08T21:43:20 < zyp> as in, I'm getting a «transfer-complete» without any data
2024-11-08T21:44:26 < zyp> I mean, normally the memory uses DQS to strobe the data, and with that enabled the transfer gets stuck with BUSY set, never getting anything
2024-11-08T21:45:07 < zyp> if I disable DQS, it should just read whatever values it sees on the data lines
2024-11-08T21:45:34 < zyp> but it's not returning any data, just transfer complete without even transferring anything
2024-11-08T21:45:57 < jbo> hang on, I'm in a meeting
2024-11-08T21:46:04 < jbo> (I don't have a solution, would just rubberduck)
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2024-11-08T23:09:07 < Steffanx> Meeting is done jbo. Time to be helpful 
2024-11-08T23:09:27 < jbo> I am
2024-11-08T23:10:02 < jbo> we're doing this via VRChat, you know
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2024-11-08T23:14:47 < Steffanx> Oh sexy time
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2024-11-08T23:18:32 < jbo> https://youtu.be/TIy3n2b7V9k?t=8
2024-11-08T23:23:15 < Steffanx> Damn that's OLD
2024-11-08T23:31:29 < jbo> <3
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--- Day changed la marras 09 2024
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2024-11-09T02:55:35 < ds2> you did turn on the needed clocks, right? that behavior resembles clocks not setup right on other chips
2024-11-09T02:56:15 < ds2> (regarding the XSPI problem)
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2024-11-09T03:30:39 < zyp> yes
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2024-11-09T05:01:06 < zyp> I figured it out, the XSPI peripheral breaks if you don't dial GPIO_OSPEEDR to max on the related pins
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2024-11-09T05:29:48 < jbo> and I was absolutely not helpful at all <3
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2024-11-09T12:33:33 < Steffanx> You were super helpful jbo. Don't underestimate your helpfulness
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2024-11-09T15:35:44 < qyx> rip jbo https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-village-threatened-by-vast-rockslide-must-be-evacuated-again/88056500
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2024-11-09T17:14:12 < Steffanx> ohno
2024-11-09T17:14:59 < specing> there was recently a rockslide in bosnia afaik, killing 10+
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2024-11-09T17:59:59 < jbo> Steffanx
2024-11-09T18:18:17 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
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2024-11-09T19:33:07 < Steffanx> Hello mr jbo didnt you do something zigbee recently?
2024-11-09T19:33:17 < jbo> nope
2024-11-09T19:33:22 < Steffanx> ok
2024-11-09T19:33:22 < jbo> last time was in 2019
2024-11-09T19:33:42 < jbo> once with XBee, once with nRF52
2024-11-09T19:33:48 < Steffanx> That's still pretty recent, but not 2024 recent
2024-11-09T19:34:20 < Steffanx> Am just curious what the ##stm32 approved go to platform is nowaday
2024-11-09T19:34:21 < Steffanx> s
2024-11-09T19:41:16 < qyx> zephyr!
2024-11-09T19:41:54 < Steffanx> i meant hw platform
2024-11-09T19:42:35 < Steffanx> And then Nordic says  " Support for Zigbee R22 has been deprecated in nRF Connect SDK v2.8.0 and it will be removed in one of the future releases, following the deprecation policy. As a result, the nRF52833, nRF52840 and nRF5340 SoCs are not recommended for new Zigbee designs. " 
2024-11-09T19:42:55 < Steffanx> " Experimental support for Zigbee R23 is available for the nRF54L Series as an nRF Connect SDK Add-on."  .. experimental
2024-11-09T19:49:58 < qyx> that's sad
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2024-11-09T20:05:39 < qyx> so, work stuff finished, time to make some serious 80 A heater controller
2024-11-09T20:18:42 < Steffanx> The most silly part of it all.. you cant even get the nrf54l yet
2024-11-09T20:18:58 < Steffanx> (except for samples)
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2024-11-09T23:35:34 < ventYl> their products are something like fuckup after fuckup
2024-11-09T23:41:40 < Steffanx> Ok
2024-11-09T23:42:21 < nomorekaki> is ventYl rambling about BMW again?
2024-11-09T23:42:27 < Steffanx> No, nordic
2024-11-09T23:42:44 < Steffanx> But still not worse than ##stm32 i2c fuckups 😋
2024-11-09T23:42:51 < Steffanx> -##
2024-11-09T23:43:15 < Steffanx> Gooday early night crew member nomorekaki ?
2024-11-09T23:43:31 < nomorekaki> yes
2024-11-09T23:43:49 < nomorekaki> I became embarassed when I night crewed another channel
2024-11-09T23:45:33 < Steffanx> Which channel was that?!?!?
2024-11-09T23:45:42 < nomorekaki> arduino
2024-11-09T23:45:48 < Steffanx> Oh dear 
2024-11-09T23:46:10 < nomorekaki> now I need to night crew 2 channels
2024-11-09T23:46:14 < qyx> are you ok nomorekaki 
2024-11-09T23:46:33 < nomorekaki> currently I'm quite ok
2024-11-09T23:47:13 < qyx> snow report, give us
2024-11-09T23:47:28 < nomorekaki> no snow, all melted
2024-11-09T23:47:34 < nomorekaki> its warm now
2024-11-09T23:47:38 < nomorekaki> and moist
2024-11-09T23:49:45 < Steffanx> This was the winter of 2024 🥳
2024-11-09T23:50:00 < nomorekaki> good thing I didnt buy a mountain sled
2024-11-09T23:50:39 < qyx> now tell me, I want to build a device fast, home network connected
2024-11-09T23:50:59 < qyx> what else can I use besides esphome?
2024-11-09T23:51:06 < nomorekaki> raspi
2024-11-09T23:51:24 < qyx> I want to shift to higher reliability realms
2024-11-09T23:51:28 < qyx> not the other way around
2024-11-09T23:52:26 < nomorekaki> I bought rugged sd for raspi but I don't remember for what purpose
2024-11-09T23:52:41 < nomorekaki> it's 16GB SLC or something
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2024-11-09T23:56:22 < nomorekaki> qyx: is there anything like raspi but reliable and have long support?
--- Day changed su marras 10 2024
2024-11-10T00:00:20 < nomorekaki> I think using nvme as a boot device could fix most raspi reliability problems
2024-11-10T00:00:35 < qyx> slc emmc
2024-11-10T00:00:49 < qyx> nvme is no more reliable than a classic sd card
2024-11-10T00:01:13 < qyx> and is also power hungy because of the "e"
2024-11-10T00:01:24 < nomorekaki> is it any smarter than sd card?
2024-11-10T00:01:40 < qyx> too smart
2024-11-10T00:03:45 < nomorekaki> https://www.mouser.fi/c/embedded-solutions/memory-data-storage/memory-modules-memory-cards/memory-cards/?nand%20flash%20technology=SLC&product=MicroSD%20Cards&active=y
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2024-11-11T12:05:33 < machinehum> https://gettrumpsneakers.com/
2024-11-11T12:05:36 < machinehum> lol
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2024-11-11T15:24:36 < fenugrec> they're probably made in china too
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2024-11-11T16:37:06 < fenugrec> Should I put a 50$ SSD in my ~2008 t61 workshop laptop
2024-11-11T16:38:26 < specing> t61 meh.. that's just in between two librebootable gens 
2024-11-11T16:38:30 < specing> but is not librebootable
2024-11-11T16:38:35 < specing> (afaik)
2024-11-11T16:39:44 < fenugrec> that seems to be correct, but I was not considering that
2024-11-11T16:41:33 < qyx> put a 20$ ssd in it
2024-11-11T16:46:41 < fenugrec> but at that price I would only get 120GB. current HDD is 160gb and ~ 50% full
2024-11-11T16:59:11 < fenugrec> or... buy another less-old craptop with an SSD already
2024-11-11T17:27:12 < ventYl> fenugrec: I converted all my laptops to SSDs, except of one 2005 powerbook which committed suicide just after I ordered the SSD the day before it arrived
2024-11-11T17:40:20 < fenugrec> yea this laptop is my last machine with no SSD at all (old 5400RPM hd is slooow), it hurts everytime I use it. But it's starting to show age in other ways, nvidia-340 blob is missing some openGL calls that break kicad (unless I recompile kicad, wxwidgets, and a bunch of other stuff)
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2024-11-11T19:43:13 < Steffanx> i wouldn't even have use for such old machine..
2024-11-11T20:02:14 < qyx> I have a 2002 fujitsu siemens which still works, but yeah, idk what would I use it for
2024-11-11T20:02:36 < qyx> with PATA mini or whatever is that thing called
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2024-11-11T21:08:06 < ventYl> fenugrec: that old powerbook is basically phased-out as being a PowerPC machine, it has virtually zero software support
2024-11-11T21:08:21 < ventYl> ancient browsers, ancient ciphers, ancient root certificates
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2024-11-11T21:58:43 < Steffanx> Yeah, sounds useful indeed ventYl  :P
2024-11-11T22:56:16 < ventYl> it's a workshop notebook. to browse through PDFs with workshop manuals and stream music
2024-11-11T22:56:30 < ventYl> i am not afraid of dropping it to the floor either
2024-11-11T23:08:47 < qyx> not a bad idea, when I finally have a workshop with sheep and goats and stuff
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2024-11-11T23:28:41 < nomorekaki> early crew
2024-11-11T23:28:45 < nomorekaki> hello
2024-11-11T23:28:55 < ventYl> -20 already?
2024-11-11T23:30:45 < nomorekaki> na
2024-11-11T23:31:08 < nomorekaki> -1
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2024-11-11T23:34:09 < qyx> poor kaki
2024-11-11T23:34:11 < qyx> too hot
2024-11-11T23:40:51 < nomorekaki> its fine
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2024-11-11T23:55:27 < fenugrec> Steffanx , it is (was) a perfect machine to open PDFs, schematics (until recently) for shop work, + music
2024-11-11T23:55:37 < fenugrec> exactly what ventYl said actually heh
--- Day changed ti marras 12 2024
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2024-11-12T11:16:08 < machinehum> jbo: https://people.freebsd.org/~rodrigo/fosdem25/
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2024-11-12T11:16:35 < machinehum> You should do a talk about Chromium
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2024-11-12T18:25:19 < bitmask> boo
2024-11-12T18:25:22 < bitmask> bs
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2024-11-12T18:59:46 < qyx> 8noo
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2024-11-12T19:31:46 < Steffanx> so much ram mucho dinero macbook pro bitmask ?
2024-11-12T19:32:21 < bitmask> everything mucho dinero
2024-11-12T19:32:42 < bitmask> I wish I could go for 128gb but its not worth another 800
2024-11-12T19:32:53 < bitmask> i'll have to deal with a measly 64gb :)
2024-11-12T19:33:10 < Steffanx> Yes terrible experience it will be
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2024-11-12T19:48:56 < bitmask> :)
2024-11-12T19:49:09 < bitmask> why do I have to wait a month and a half :(
2024-11-12T19:51:48 < bitmask> sooo much to do
2024-11-12T19:51:58 < bitmask> who wants to clean for me
2024-11-12T19:52:20 < bitmask> so that I can work and pay off this ridiculously priced laptop
2024-11-12T19:54:21 < bitmask> hmm, what is a good credit score?
2024-11-12T19:54:45 < bitmask> I need more credit cards, maybe i'll apply for an apple card
2024-11-12T19:55:30 < bitmask> oh nice, my length of credit jumped from 6 years to 7 years this month so getting a new card wont affect it as much
2024-11-12T19:58:03 < Steffanx> The American dream ... owning a dozen credit cards
2024-11-12T19:58:21 < bitmask> I don't plan on using them... much, I just need them to get my credit score higher
2024-11-12T19:58:49 < bitmask> I only have 1 low limit card right now
2024-11-12T19:58:59 < bitmask> with I think $7 on it
2024-11-12T19:59:38 < bitmask> then I have a few student loans
2024-11-12T20:01:26 < specing> bitmask: sell off the laptop and buy old thinkpad
2024-11-12T20:01:48 < bitmask> and what would that nonsense do?
2024-11-12T20:02:06 < specing> l<bitmask> so that I can work and pay off this ridiculously priced lapto
2024-11-12T20:02:10 < specing> fix this issue
2024-11-12T20:02:32 < bitmask> oh, thats a lame suggestion :P
2024-11-12T20:03:23 < bitmask> I basically have all the money already, and if I can get the credit card I have a year to pay for it with no interest, so I can buy other things too :)
2024-11-12T20:04:32 < bitmask> I'm thinking of getting a bamboo carbon x1 or whatever it is, I've always wanted a multi color printer, mostly to use a second material for supports
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2024-11-12T20:08:58 < Steffanx> Than save a few bucks and just get the P1s or A1/mini
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2024-11-12T20:43:58 < bitmask> less than a week for another starship launch
2024-11-12T21:08:40 < bitmask> should be a nice view this time as they are actually going to 'land' during the day
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2024-11-12T21:47:49 < antto> yo dawg, i heard you like credits
2024-11-12T21:59:06 < Steffanx> Welcome antto. Welcome. How was your day today?
2024-11-12T21:59:30 < antto> like every other day
2024-11-12T21:59:47 < Steffanx> Is that a good or a bad thing?
2024-11-12T22:00:10 < Steffanx> Today i greeted you, so it must be a good day. A special day.
2024-11-12T22:00:15 < antto> it's a neutral thing
2024-11-12T22:03:03 < Steffanx> I see.
2024-11-12T22:03:31 < antto> i don't have any credits...
2024-11-12T22:03:49 < antto> (but i have too much cash)
2024-11-12T22:05:16 < Steffanx> You can always go to an Apple Store and buy a new macbook pro
2024-11-12T22:05:56 < antto> <nope_no_NO____hell-no.gif>
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2024-11-12T22:06:52 < Steffanx> kaki didnt survive that gif
2024-11-12T22:10:39 < antto> here's some spam: https://antonsavov.net/tmp/BOZA_38_06_DEMO.mp3
2024-11-12T22:14:24 < Steffanx> Those first few seconds sounded like some  news bulletin intro
2024-11-12T22:14:31 < Steffanx> *sound
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2024-11-12T22:33:13 < Steffanx> Heh not bad antto . For some reason it does sound like the entire song is some intro/build up for something that never comes :)
2024-11-12T22:33:31 < antto> it's unfinished
2024-11-12T22:33:35 < antto> and old
2024-11-12T22:34:28 < Steffanx> ooh
2024-11-12T22:35:31 < antto> but speaking of a build up...
2024-11-12T22:36:37 < Steffanx> Bed time for mr antto ?
2024-11-12T22:37:18 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wm-D_7Ar0
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2024-11-12T22:43:48 < Steffanx> Meh
2024-11-12T22:45:15 < antto> time for some more mrgasmask now
2024-11-12T23:07:06 < bitmask> just replaced our 10 year old amazon echo with a new echo spot (I got tired of repeating everything), pretty neat, not like we really use it much but its definitely easier to talk to now
2024-11-12T23:30:13 < antto> what problems does that kind of thing solve?
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2024-11-12T23:39:45 < bitmask> I only really use it for 2 things, weather and telling it to turn the lights on and off
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--- Day changed ke marras 13 2024
2024-11-13T00:09:01 < nomorekaki> happy midnight
2024-11-13T00:18:40 < Steffanx> Good day Mr nomorekaki 
2024-11-13T00:18:55 < nomorekaki> time to buy skis
2024-11-13T00:19:21 < nomorekaki> for my airplane
2024-11-13T00:19:47 < Steffanx> Winter is back?
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2024-11-13T00:21:09 < nomorekaki> need some time to fit the skis
2024-11-13T00:21:36 < nomorekaki> before lake is iced
2024-11-13T00:23:35 < nomorekaki> remove wheels and make hubs to install skis to axles
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2024-11-13T01:21:46 < qyx> nomorekaki: jd skis?
2024-11-13T01:21:59 < qyx> oh for the airplane
2024-11-13T01:23:34 < nomorekaki> idk how traction in tractor works with skis
2024-11-13T01:26:10 < nomorekaki> PTO propeller ofc
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2024-11-13T01:37:44 < Phantom> hi there, question guys, I have a program that I made that worked fine. Now, few months later, stm32cubeide got upgraded, so is the firmware version... Now, nothing HAL work at all! I backupped the ioc and the main.c, recreated the project by importing the ioc and the main.c, but still the same. I don't want to have to redo the ioc without being sure it would fix anything, so... anyone have an idea? No warning at compile time.
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2024-11-13T08:22:17 < jpa-> "don't use cube"
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2024-11-13T09:24:55 < qyx> I am still considering writing a small pyside app for gpio config only and trash the whole cube idea
2024-11-13T09:25:13 < qyx> ST will definitely put me into jail but whatever
2024-11-13T09:25:45 < jpa-> why do you need app for gpio config?
2024-11-13T09:25:59 < qyx> because I ran out of pens
2024-11-13T09:26:15 < qyx> I mean to explore and select AF/pinmux
2024-11-13T09:26:30 < jpa-> ah, yeah, for exploration the cube gpio tool is quite ok
2024-11-13T09:26:48 < jpa-> the code i always just make manually in a way that is more editable, usually structs or xmacros
2024-11-13T09:27:02 < qyx> yeah not for codegen, fuk codegen
2024-11-13T09:27:06 < qyx> I do that manually too
2024-11-13T09:27:26 < qyx> the tool is "quite" usable, it has many possibilities for improvement
2024-11-13T09:28:09 < jpa-> i think most accessible platform for such a tool would be in web browser
2024-11-13T09:29:22 < qyx> that has some legal issues
2024-11-13T09:29:33 < jpa-> huh?
2024-11-13T09:29:34 < qyx> because I don't want to be the one stealing data
2024-11-13T09:29:41 < qyx> the end user has to be :>
2024-11-13T09:30:42 < jpa-> i guess parsing the PDF would be fair use, but more complex than stealing the cube xml
2024-11-13T09:31:38 < jpa-> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32_open_pin_data   hmm BSD license
2024-11-13T09:32:16 < qyx> wait what is that something new
2024-11-13T09:32:44 < qyx> cool
2024-11-13T09:33:30 < qyx> no AF numberes though
2024-11-13T09:34:06 < qyx> Signal IOModes is a bit non-xmly
2024-11-13T09:36:59 < jpa-> AF numbers appear to be in separate xml in IP folder
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2024-11-13T11:37:41 < karlp> fecking, usb pd PPS is _not_ what they used for extended power, they have somethign that's identical 100mV steps, but now it's "AVS" instead.
2024-11-13T11:37:43 < karlp> weirdos.
2024-11-13T11:37:53 < karlp> oh no, 20mV vs 100mV.ok, mayyyybe
2024-11-13T11:39:26 < karlp> oh, they dropped 3.3v from PPS
2024-11-13T11:39:28 < karlp> fun
2024-11-13T11:46:36 < karlp> do any of you know if the IEC/EN 62680-1-x standards are just "lol, pay" versions of the usb-if standards? or is there anything extra in them?
2024-11-13T11:48:32 < karlp> ok, yes. https://www.usb.org/IEC62680
2024-11-13T11:48:44 < karlp> just build to usb-if, 
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2024-11-13T13:30:37 < ventYl> karlp: given the relationship between LIN 2.2A and ISO17987-* I'd say it is just a "lol, pay" version
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2024-11-13T18:09:42 < Posterdati> hi
2024-11-13T18:11:01 < Posterdati> please help, I'm trying to configure the cose for USB OTG HS on an stm32h723. The rm0433 manual reports:  Program the following fields in the OTG_GAHBCFG register:
2024-11-13T18:11:01 < Posterdati> Rx FIFO non-empty (RXFLVL bit in OTG_GINTSTS)
2024-11-13T18:11:19 < Posterdati> now, this bit is read only...
2024-11-13T18:12:42 < Posterdati> pages 2758, 2676 and 2679
2024-11-13T18:12:48 < Posterdati> :(
2024-11-13T18:12:55 < Posterdati> Thanks for any help
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2024-11-13T18:35:00 < zyp> Posterdati, sounds like they're referring to some bits in the GAHBCFG registers that doesn't exist in the instance in stm32
2024-11-13T18:36:31 < Posterdati> ?
2024-11-13T18:37:07 < zyp> the stm32 instance has no bits in GAHBCFG that relates to the RX FIFO
2024-11-13T18:39:19 < zyp> unless they meant to refer to GINTMSK.RXFLVLM
2024-11-13T18:42:45 < Posterdati> which is read only
2024-11-13T18:43:05 < zyp> no, you're thinking of GINTSTS.RXFLVL
2024-11-13T18:43:45 < Posterdati> Rx FIFO non-empty (RXFLVL bit in OTG_GINTSTS)
2024-11-13T18:43:59 < Posterdati> page 2758
2024-11-13T18:44:10 < Posterdati> rm0433
2024-11-13T18:44:27 < Posterdati> sorry rm0468
2024-11-13T18:45:04 < zyp> GINTSTS are interrupt status bits, you're obviously not gonna write those
2024-11-13T18:45:22 < Posterdati> exactly, then what does it mean?
2024-11-13T18:45:30 < zyp> GINTMSK has the interrupt mask bits, that control which interrupts are enabled and not
2024-11-13T18:45:56 < zyp> either way they're not in GAHBCFG, so you can just ignore that line for now
2024-11-13T18:45:58 < Posterdati> they stated to write GINTMSK in OTG_GAHBCFG
2024-11-13T18:46:09 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-13T18:46:52 < zyp> also, you're the one writing a driver for this, which interrupts to actually enable is up to you
2024-11-13T18:47:11 < zyp> (you don't have to enable any if you're writing a polling driver)
2024-11-13T18:49:46 < Posterdati> well I'm writing a test application on a h723, but I'd like to port this app on the h735 evaluation board with the tft display
2024-11-13T18:50:05 < Posterdati> a sort of old cbm machine with a monitor :)
2024-11-13T18:50:35 < zyp> cbm?
2024-11-13T18:56:13 < Posterdati> old commodore c128 type computer
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2024-11-14T03:51:52 < qyx> security pros, which usb token should I use?
2024-11-14T03:52:01 < qyx> hassle free under linux
2024-11-14T03:52:15 < qyx> (not yubikey, I hate their connectors)
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2024-11-14T05:37:48 < fenugrec> those old LPT dongles that short 2 pins
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2024-11-14T08:31:31 < qyx> nitrokey is the only one with a proper usb connector I have found so far
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2024-11-14T09:22:09 < Steffanx> Yubikey USB-C. You cannot hate USB-C
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2024-11-14T13:24:42 < qyx> I don't have usb-c on my computerz
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2024-11-14T21:49:02 < Steffanx> i see
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2024-11-15T00:35:21 < qyx> returning to my super complex power supply https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ty5UL/Screenshot_2024-11-14_23-34-59.png
2024-11-15T00:35:34 < qyx> unrouted: 43
2024-11-15T00:36:03 < qyx> I guess I am finishing it and test and then I'll reconsider some parts
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2024-11-15T01:45:04 < qyx> unrouted 0, but I am not believing kicad8 it imported a kicad5 project right
2024-11-15T01:45:38 < qyx> tbh I don't believe the board will work
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2024-11-15T03:51:41 < Phantom> hi there, on stm32f103, after I do a RDP level 1 in software, I issue that hal ob launch, which is supposed to restart the controller, but it just freeze and require a power cycle... anyone have an idea of why?
2024-11-15T03:58:44 < zyp> did you have a debugger connected before/when you did this?
2024-11-15T03:59:23 < Phantom> programming via the stlink, so yes
2024-11-15T03:59:40 < zyp> then that's why :)
2024-11-15T03:59:48 < Phantom> ok, good to know
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2024-11-15T04:00:30 < Phantom> thanks
2024-11-15T04:00:34 < zyp> the way RDP works is that it disables the flash interface if you have a debugger attached
2024-11-15T04:01:00 < zyp> and IIRC it takes a powercycle to recover
2024-11-15T04:01:35 < zyp> because otherwise you could use the debugger to load up a flash dumper in RAM and set it to run, and then just detach the debugger
2024-11-15T04:02:53 < Phantom> make half sense, but meh    if it is normal, then it is not my code
2024-11-15T04:02:57 < Phantom> which mean it's fine
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2024-11-15T09:09:29 < qyx> zyp: but ram is not reset on POR and it is not guaranteed to be total clear after power cycling?
2024-11-15T09:10:44 < qyx> 1there were some additional measures iirc, but idrc
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2024-11-15T10:10:28 < jpa-> also PC is always reset on reset, so i'm not sure how you would "set it to run"
2024-11-15T10:11:08 < jpa-> most debug adapters never unset the "debug interface enabled" bit
2024-11-15T10:26:39 < zyp> yeah, I thought about that after I wrote it, I'm not sure it necessarily needs a POR, but at least debug needs to be truly disabled at reset
2024-11-15T10:28:02 < zyp> I'm not sure how it determines that a debugger is attached, but it'd be natural for it to be the CDBGPWRUPREQ bit
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2024-11-15T16:14:39 < qyx> schroff rail in distrelec 19 eur, schroff rail in schroff 7e
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2024-11-15T16:51:52 < karlp> I just got spam for a new _cron_ ... internet is weird.
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2024-11-15T17:03:16 < qyx> that's a cool one, I usually try new crons every week or so, some are better than the others
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2024-11-16T20:38:11 < qyx> broken interwebs
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2024-11-16T20:47:30 < jbo> jup
2024-11-16T20:47:37 < jbo> tyson is sad
2024-11-16T21:25:36 < Steffanx> I couldn't care less I think
2024-11-16T21:25:50 < Steffanx> Did Mr jbo enjoy the match?
2024-11-16T21:29:12 < jbo> jbo didn't watch that
2024-11-16T21:29:17 < jbo> but I heard that netflix was having troubles
2024-11-16T21:38:28 < qyx> because of him?
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2024-11-16T22:10:00 < mawk> yes
2024-11-16T22:10:09 < mawk> their casting shit didn't hold the load
2024-11-16T22:10:09 < jbo> absolutely
2024-11-16T23:19:48 < zyp> didn't know netflix did live
2024-11-16T23:25:23 < qyx> should I do some work or just sleep around
2024-11-16T23:25:46 < zyp> didn't know you used to sleep around
2024-11-16T23:26:24 < qyx> ok I actually lold
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2024-11-16T23:49:29 < qyx> so, back to work it is
2024-11-16T23:49:37 < qyx> jbo: hows your whisper listeners
2024-11-16T23:49:50 < qyx> any recent stm32 innovation?
2024-11-16T23:53:27 < Steffanx> What is STM32?
--- Day changed su marras 17 2024
2024-11-17T00:04:16 < qyx> that was a bad nrf joke
2024-11-17T00:25:09 < zyp> qyx, idk, I invented fingerpainting the other day
2024-11-17T00:25:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/7h0BO.mp4
2024-11-17T00:41:38 < qyx> is it capacitive?
2024-11-17T00:41:58 < qyx> oh it is the original devboard?
2024-11-17T00:42:15 < qyx> I saw tagconnect and I was oh yeah zyp again..
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2024-11-17T00:47:56 < zyp> fuck no, whoever designed in that tag connect was drunk
2024-11-17T00:53:14 < qyx> idk what's the purpose on a development board
2024-11-17T00:54:16 < zyp> I have no idea, there's also a 20-pin standard cortex debug connector
2024-11-17T00:54:19 < zyp> with trace
2024-11-17T00:54:32 < zyp> that's what I'm buying, and part of why I even bought this board in the first place
2024-11-17T00:54:51 < zyp> haven't yet tried it in trace mode though, just SWO
2024-11-17T00:55:17 < zyp> s/buying/using/
2024-11-17T00:56:50 < zyp> anyway, this is the thing with the gpu, I brought up nema-sdk with it, so those colors are drawn by gpu, not cpu
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2024-11-17T00:59:55 < zyp> also the XSPI peripheral is cool
2024-11-17T01:01:57 < qyx> the question is if the actual power consumption is lower than with an cortex-a with gpu
2024-11-17T01:02:23 < qyx> I don't quite understand the use case for such powerful GPUs on MCUs
2024-11-17T01:02:56 < zyp> smartwatches and similar AIUI
2024-11-17T01:03:55 < zyp> idk, I primarily got this board because I needed an ethernet devboard, bringing up the gpu was just for fun
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2024-11-17T01:08:48 < qyx> oh, so just playing
2024-11-17T01:09:12 < zyp> yeah
2024-11-17T01:09:47 < zyp> «what is this gpu anyway and how does it work?»
2024-11-17T01:10:06 < zyp> turns out it's a https://www.think-silicon.com/nema-pico-vg
2024-11-17T01:10:22 < qyx> I am a bit disappointed since the drama in lvgl
2024-11-17T01:10:42 < zyp> what drama?
2024-11-17T01:10:43 < qyx> and that issue of the docs not being completely public or what was the thing
2024-11-17T01:11:12 < zyp> AIUI the SDK is not published yet, but available on request
2024-11-17T01:11:23 < qyx> idk they refused to add support because st refused to pay as a ~sponsor~
2024-11-17T01:11:44 < zyp> but somebody posted a copy here, so that's what I grabbed and brought up: https://github.com/flipperdevices/nema-gfx
2024-11-17T01:11:46 < qyx> was it lvgl? the dongs favourite one
2024-11-17T01:12:41 < qyx> looks too fancy for me
2024-11-17T01:13:01 < qyx> my current device I has been doing the previous week has a b/w STN LCD
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2024-11-17T01:16:50 < Steffanx> The main lvgl drama was removing support for ST "GPUs" when they rewrote some parts of the lib for v9.. and they would only add support if ST paid they some money.
2024-11-17T01:17:56 < Steffanx> And they weren't really clear about this when they released v9
2024-11-17T01:18:00 < zyp> a google search suggests that was removal of DMA2D support
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2024-11-17T01:18:07 < zyp> https://forum.lvgl.io/t/v9-1-no-stm32-dma2d-support/15591
2024-11-17T01:19:06 < qyx> yes and not including the neo whatever
2024-11-17T01:19:28 < zyp> yeah, NeoChrom is ST's rebrand of this nema thing
2024-11-17T01:19:36 < Steffanx> https://github.com/lvgl/lvgl/issues/5555 dma2d indeed
2024-11-17T01:21:29 < zyp> hmm, according to the docs, it *is* supported
2024-11-17T01:21:30 < zyp> https://docs.lvgl.io/master/details/integration/renderers/nema_gfx.html#nema-gfx
2024-11-17T01:23:02 < Steffanx> The GitHub issue has some recent updates mentioning it being supported..
2024-11-17T01:25:24 < zyp> hmm, lvgl looks reasonably nice, integration wise
2024-11-17T01:33:45 < qyx> Steffanx: what was that rgb led again, something-805?
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2024-11-17T01:34:31 < qyx> hm I need a 3 mm THT LED with a SMD footprint
2024-11-17T01:34:58 < zyp> sounds like you want a SMD LED and a 3mm lightpipe
2024-11-17T01:35:25 < qyx> yeah browsing pipes now
2024-11-17T01:35:46 < zyp> straight?
2024-11-17T01:36:06 < zyp> the right angle ones I'm using are nice, I can look if they've got straight ones too
2024-11-17T01:36:19 < Steffanx> Hd108 or 107 something qyx
2024-11-17T01:36:20 < qyx> I am using right angle ones too, just checking on TME
2024-11-17T01:36:52 < qyx> where did you get them? did you china them or were they available in the western world
2024-11-17T01:37:01 < zyp> both
2024-11-17T01:37:07 < Steffanx> I used AliExpress 
2024-11-17T01:37:42 < qyx> hm my panel is 2 mm thick and there is 3 mm between PCB and the panel
2024-11-17T01:37:50 < qyx> so I need.. uh, 3 mm long light pipe
2024-11-17T01:37:50 < Steffanx> I'm not sure you'll find them on this side of the globe 
2024-11-17T01:38:20 < zyp> qyx, not 5mm to get it flush?
2024-11-17T01:38:31 < zyp> not counting the recess for the LED, of course
2024-11-17T01:39:00 < qyx> FIX-LEMB3-3V0-F
2024-11-17T01:39:14 < qyx> but SMD leds are not zero height
2024-11-17T01:39:23 < zyp> I said not counting the recess
2024-11-17T01:39:45 < qyx> is there any? my pipes have flat bottom
2024-11-17T01:39:54 < qyx> this particular one too
2024-11-17T01:40:31 < zyp> sounds like you want VLP-200-F: https://www.bivar.com/parts_content/Datasheets/VLP-XXX-X.pdf
2024-11-17T01:41:15 < zyp> the right angle ones I'm using are SLP3-150-100-F: https://www.bivar.com/parts_content/Datasheets/SLP3-150-XXX-X.pdf
2024-11-17T01:41:20 < zyp> or chinaclones of those :p
2024-11-17T01:41:30 < qyx> hm yeah those are pcb-attached
2024-11-17T01:41:36 < zyp> yes
2024-11-17T01:41:39 < qyx> the fix&fasten one is panel attached
2024-11-17T01:41:48 < qyx> doesn't really matter for my case though
2024-11-17T01:42:08 < zyp> yeah, panel attached ones wouldn't need a recess since they don't need to touch the PCB
2024-11-17T01:43:07 < zyp> orbtrace are using some panel-mount friction fit ones, but they're smaller
2024-11-17T01:43:09 < qyx> how did you mount them? glue or heat?
2024-11-17T01:43:19 < zyp> mount what?
2024-11-17T01:43:25 < qyx> those recessed ones
2024-11-17T01:43:28 < qyx> with pegs
2024-11-17T01:43:32 < zyp> the SLP3? that's also friction fit into the PCB
2024-11-17T01:43:47 < zyp> and being right angle the front panel locks them into place once assembled
2024-11-17T01:44:02 < qyx> all my friction fit thins I have ever done failed on first try
2024-11-17T01:44:58 < qyx> ok I have the button selected too
2024-11-17T01:45:02 < qyx> time to continue
2024-11-17T01:45:06 < qyx> 15 more minutes
2024-11-17T01:46:45 < zyp> qyx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/RQviJ.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/piRLH.jpg
2024-11-17T01:50:09 < qyx> are those crimson red and whatever-green?
2024-11-17T01:50:19 < qyx> the blueish one
2024-11-17T02:05:06 < zyp> all leds are RGB
2024-11-17T02:05:39 < zyp> SK6805-EC15
2024-11-17T02:06:07 < zyp> but yeah, the green in those are InGaN green if that's what you're asking
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2024-11-17T02:20:56 < qyx> yes I like the color
2024-11-17T02:21:04 < qyx> also I have just found ublox BMD-330
2024-11-17T02:22:39 < qyx> I hoped it is AT-commandable
2024-11-17T02:23:30 < qyx> The BMD-330 module is not loaded with a factory firmware image.
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2024-11-17T02:57:41 < zyp> hmm, I went looking through the lvgl sources, of course all the stm32 integration code is HAL based
2024-11-17T02:59:10 < zyp> except the nema integration looks like it can be decoupled from the stm32 glue layer
2024-11-17T03:17:15 < zyp> not a big fan of how this stuff submits a bunch of work to the gpu and immediately blocks waiting for it to complete
2024-11-17T03:18:39 < qyx> what should it do?
2024-11-17T03:19:22 < zyp> a nonblocking API would be nice
2024-11-17T03:19:26 < qyx> you mean it doesn't switch tasks properly?
2024-11-17T03:19:51 < zyp> depends what you mean by tasks
2024-11-17T03:20:13 < qyx> if it uses at least some rtos primitives to block, it is ok, one more thread to handle
2024-11-17T03:20:28 < qyx> tasks - something other to do while it renders
2024-11-17T03:21:52 < zyp> so lvgl calls nema_cl_wait(), which calls nema_wait_irq_cl(), which in the provided stm32 glue is a polling busywait loop
2024-11-17T03:22:58 < qyx> yeah so the lazy way which is not 'properly'
2024-11-17T03:23:36 < zyp> if you've got a multithreading rtos, you can provide your own nema glue which has a nema_wait_irq that does an actual task suspend
2024-11-17T03:26:36 < zyp> but that's not what I want, I'd like it if it had a nonblocking option where it just returned «busy, call me again later»
2024-11-17T03:27:38 < zyp> where «later» would be triggered by e.g. a GPU IRQ
2024-11-17T03:30:39 < zyp> nonblocking code translates well to coroutine code, because it can be easily wrapped in something like «async foo() { while(nonblocking_func() == busy) { co_await try_again_event; }}»
2024-11-17T03:32:25 < zyp> that said, I'm planning to add a «run in executor» thing to laks.async, where an executor is effectively a thread
2024-11-17T03:36:22 < zyp> disadvantage is that being a thread, it needs its own stack, and the stack needs to be large enough to fit everything the function will call
2024-11-17T03:36:59 < zyp> whereas coroutine frames only needs to be large enough to fit the locals
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2024-11-17T13:56:03 < Steffanx> karlp, fedora was/is your goto lunix distro isnt it? WTF is up with them replacing wget with wget2 which breaks a few installation scripts here and there? (like when something uses show-progress which is not supported in 2).. quite annoying.
2024-11-17T15:12:11 < jpa-> "you use distro X? it's your fault they're stupid!"
2024-11-17T15:34:36 < Steffanx> im just curious if he ran into it yet :P
2024-11-17T15:34:47 < Steffanx> karlp seems to run into things
2024-11-17T15:35:04 < Steffanx> also hello jpa- 
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2024-11-17T17:13:31 < karlp> Steffanx: yeah, that was a bit dumb. I ran into that in a few places, 
2024-11-17T17:13:51 < karlp> anbd it was exactrly on that show-progress incompatibility :)
2024-11-17T17:14:18 < karlp> I file a change to esp-idf I tihnnk to use a way that works on both, but *shrugs*
2024-11-17T17:14:29 < karlp> apparently even wget2 author said "wtf?! this wanst' ready for that yet!"
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2024-11-17T21:28:52 < Steffanx> Yeah exactly 
2024-11-17T21:46:17 < qyx> so
2024-11-17T21:49:12 < qyx> oh I noticed the world is slowing down, orders take longer to ship, shipping already takes two times longer
2024-11-17T22:50:43 < Steffanx> Will you survive, qyx?
2024-11-17T22:56:27 < qyx> no, doing some survival cult PCBs https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ud8Rg/Screenshot_2024-11-17_21-56-01.png
2024-11-17T22:58:32 < zyp> what are you summoning?
2024-11-17T22:59:30 < qyx> eternal lights
2024-11-17T22:59:57 < qyx> doing christmas garden lights
2024-11-17T23:00:17 < qyx> my idea is to have two PCBs like this one, top and bottom
2024-11-17T23:00:57 < qyx> then six vertical PCBs 30x80 mm placed on the hexagon edges
2024-11-17T23:01:05 < qyx> inside 6 18650s
2024-11-17T23:01:26 < qyx> and some LEDs on the vertical PCBs and on the bottom, some STM32 and bluetooth on top
2024-11-17T23:01:40 < qyx> some proximity/IR sensors, etc.
2024-11-17T23:01:48 < qyx> optionally solar cells to recharge the thing
2024-11-17T23:02:01 < qyx> and all this will go into a glass jar
2024-11-17T23:02:33 < qyx> something like this https://www.cospak.com.au/productimages/H1146.jpg
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--- Day changed ma marras 18 2024
2024-11-18T00:04:32 < qyx> that hexagonal PCB is pretty challenging
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2024-11-18T01:03:21 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V40OQoca7bs gammarad camera
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2024-11-18T13:12:48 < qyx> I can't find a single self-adhesive cable tie mount
2024-11-18T13:13:24 < qyx> which means I tidied up exceptionally good
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2024-11-18T15:41:45 < catphish> final (hopefully) designs for internet controlled lora connected light switches - https://imgur.com/a/qBTTnQd
2024-11-18T15:43:00 < catphish> i went with the big F407 for ethernet in the end, hopefuly my PoE setup works too
2024-11-18T15:45:04 < qyx> the magjack is a bit suboptimal though
2024-11-18T15:46:27 < qyx> also, isn't the antenna too small for 868?
2024-11-18T15:47:24 < machinehum> catphish: What's the rf chip?
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2024-11-18T17:02:08 < jbo> hello
2024-11-18T17:12:37 < Posterdati> hi
2024-11-18T17:13:11 < Posterdati> please help, is there any guide to configure the USB device on the stm32h723? Thanks!
2024-11-18T17:14:41 < Posterdati> the reference manual is useless...
2024-11-18T17:17:54 < jpa-> typically you would use a library to do it
2024-11-18T17:23:48 < ventYl> Posterdati: I did like a month ago and went down with tinyusb
2024-11-18T17:24:41 < ventYl> there the process is mostly straightforward except of the fact that the default distribution of tinyusb is in fact a mashup of tinyusb and a BSP/framework
2024-11-18T17:25:51 < jpa-> i have used chibios for usb on stm32h7
2024-11-18T17:25:59 < jpa-> and the st's own library probably works too
2024-11-18T17:30:34 < Posterdati> :(
2024-11-18T17:32:02 < Posterdati> following the rm is not working even to init the core...
2024-11-18T17:35:18 < jpa-> so you are trying to write your own usb lib? why?
2024-11-18T17:36:24 < ventYl> Posterdati: a standard checklist: did you configure and enable clock to the peripheral?
2024-11-18T17:36:57 < jpa-> it's just normal OTG_FS/HS anyway, if you really want to do it manually, just copy https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/usb/dwc_otg.h
2024-11-18T17:43:48 < Posterdati> jpa-: this code is different for what the rm said :)
2024-11-18T17:48:21 < catphish> machinehum: SX1281
2024-11-18T17:49:13 < jpa-> Posterdati: then you can discuss specific differences if you really want, but you said the reference manual is useless?
2024-11-18T17:49:53 < ventYl> jpa-: is it the +- same file that is shipped with tinyusb?
2024-11-18T17:50:03 < jpa-> ventYl: ?
2024-11-18T17:50:10 < ventYl> that dwc_otg.h
2024-11-18T17:50:30 < ventYl> ah no, it is laks-specific
2024-11-18T17:50:46 < ventYl> how could I ask something so stupid :)
2024-11-18T17:51:03 < jpa-> yeah, zyp's custom code and the lowest number of lines USB driver for STM32 that i know of
2024-11-18T17:51:29 < jpa-> it probably doesn't have everything that tinyusb does, but at least it has the basics to get started
2024-11-18T17:52:01 < ventYl> most importantly, tinyusb is basically missing any documentation
2024-11-18T17:52:23 < jpa-> laks doesn't even have a readme!
2024-11-18T17:52:52 < ventYl> given 0 users of my RTOS, that doesn't matter
2024-11-18T17:54:11 < jpa-> but anyway, synopsys dwc core is pretty nice to code for, it doesn't require any magic incantations and even if you set registers in a bit different order than the refman says, it will mostly work as expected
2024-11-18T17:55:04 < jpa-> with so much existing code for STM32, you can just check what a working piece of code does and compare to non-working code
2024-11-18T17:55:13 < ventYl> it looks rather reasonable compared to other stuff found on older chips
2024-11-18T17:55:42 < ventYl> which integrates way too of the stack into silicon making it barely usable for anything not expected by the silicon designer
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2024-11-18T18:07:47 < Posterdati> jpa-: thanks for the hint!
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2024-11-18T20:19:00 < zyp> ventYl, according to github, my dwc_otg.h predates tinyusb's initial commit by about three months, so it's pretty safe to say it's not based on tinyusb :)
2024-11-18T20:20:42 < ventYl> zyp: yeah that's quite strong property
2024-11-18T20:21:29 < zyp> I weren't even aware tinyusb was that old, I only started hearing about it a few years ago
2024-11-18T20:23:25 < zyp> jpa-, https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/usb/stm32_usb.h is even fewer lines
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2024-11-18T20:33:21 < jbo> ah yes, the good lines-of-code metric
2024-11-18T20:33:36 < jbo> reminds me of how HAL_RCC_OscInit() on an H7 boils down to 1.7kB of code space.
2024-11-18T20:34:10 < ventYl> back in the day an old gcc 4 or 5 was able to generate hundreds of bytes if you used ternary operator
2024-11-18T20:34:23 < ventYl> while same if being just a few bytes of code
2024-11-18T20:34:43 < Posterdati> jpa-: that code seems to not work on stm32h723
2024-11-18T20:34:44 < jbo> huh? That's interesting. wouldn't the two versions of that code boil down to the same internal representation (IR)?
2024-11-18T20:34:59 < jpa-> Posterdati: you probably have some other bug
2024-11-18T20:35:02 < ventYl> not exactly. there's one slight difference between if and ternary operator
2024-11-18T20:35:10 < jbo> please enlighten me
2024-11-18T20:35:16 < jpa-> Posterdati: you may want to post your symptoms here and wait 60-86400 seconds
2024-11-18T20:35:28 < jbo> both would boil down to a form of conditional jump op, no?
2024-11-18T20:35:44 < ventYl> the "return" type of ternary operator depends on which "side" of ternary operator applies, that probably has some impact on resulting code logic down the stream 
2024-11-18T20:36:26 < ventYl> I did not bother to understand AVR assembly on what exactly is it doing as the code in question involved 32-bit math
2024-11-18T20:36:39 < jbo> hmmm
2024-11-18T20:36:50 < jpa-> how can a statically typed language have an operator with varying type? sounds more like compiler stupidness
2024-11-18T20:37:08 < jbo> yeah I'm also a bit confused by this
2024-11-18T20:37:16 < jbo> I'm not saying you're talking shit, I'd just like to understand :)
2024-11-18T20:37:44 < jpa-> the claim that "gcc 4 generated unnecessarily long code for seemingly simple statement" doesn't surprise me though, just the analysis seems bogus
2024-11-18T20:38:23 < ventYl> jpa-: well, ternary operator evaluates to type of whatever expression which is taken
2024-11-18T20:38:43 < jbo> ventYl, how? it's a runtime construct
2024-11-18T20:39:19 < jbo> it's not like C++ compile time expressions
2024-11-18T20:42:40 < Steffanx> jbo: The easiest way to cut something off that 1.7K is to use the LL driver for RCC.
2024-11-18T20:42:54 < ventYl> jbo: ah OK, that understanding was stupid indeed, and probably sheds some light on why it happened
2024-11-18T20:43:12 < Steffanx> (or by not using the cube at all ofcourse :P)
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2024-11-18T20:43:30 < ventYl> ternary operator will be typed as common type of both 2nd and 3rd argument derived by type promotion'n'friends
2024-11-18T20:43:54 < ventYl> it is possible that in my case there was some type mismatch which caused generation of typecast into code
2024-11-18T20:44:47 < ventYl> yet it is not highly probable as when I rewrote out = condition ? a : b; to if (condition) out = a; else out = b; the typecast would probably emitted as well
2024-11-18T21:04:50 < Posterdati> jpa-: I used the init() function from dwg_otg.h, I cannot get usb reset or enumeration irq...
2024-11-18T21:06:49 < zyp> Posterdati, IIRC there were something that changed about how one register needed to be initialized at some point, so I'm not sure that initialization code will work unchanged on H7
2024-11-18T21:07:22 < ventYl> he still can use the tinyusb version as a reference
2024-11-18T21:07:30 < ventYl> it works unmodified on h753
2024-11-18T21:07:45 < Posterdati> h7 seems to have an usb machine from Synopsys OTG IP
2024-11-18T21:08:02 < zyp> that's what dwc means
2024-11-18T21:08:27 < Posterdati> https://community.st.com/t5/stm32-mcus-embedded-software/trying-to-get-usb-device-working/td-p/251622
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2024-11-18T21:09:09 < zyp> dwc stands for DesignWare Cores, which is Synopsys' IP library
2024-11-18T21:09:35 < Posterdati> ah ok
2024-11-18T21:09:51 < Posterdati> mmmh it should work
2024-11-18T21:09:53 < zyp> the ethernet core is another dwc core
2024-11-18T21:16:58 < Posterdati> zyp: anyway, following the rm for stm32h723 the core initialization isn't working...
2024-11-18T21:29:30 < zyp> hmm, maybe my project for tonight should be bringing up USB on the stm32h7s78-dk then :)
2024-11-18T21:30:16 < zyp> been a few years since last I used dwc_otg, and that was on f7
2024-11-18T22:18:22 < zyp> okay, now I think I'm at where Posterdati is at, I run the initialization code and nothing happens :)
2024-11-18T22:21:07 < Posterdati> zyp: if I follow the rm algorithm it triggers irqs 
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2024-11-18T22:26:46 < zyp> tada: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iyco5.png
2024-11-18T22:27:46 < zyp> the f7 project I did last I used dwc_otg had the following additions:
2024-11-18T22:27:46 < zyp>     OTG_FS.dev_reg->DCTL &= ~(1 << 1);
2024-11-18T22:27:47 < zyp>     OTG_FS->GOTGCTL |= (1 << 2) | (1 << 3) | (1 << 6) | (1 << 7);
2024-11-18T22:28:35 < Steffanx> The magic bits.
2024-11-18T22:28:43 < zyp> plus a change to handle_rxfifo(), which I recall were discussed a bunch for libopencm3
2024-11-18T22:31:14 < Posterdati> no, the sdis bit in dctl is explained in the rm
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2024-11-18T22:34:18 < zyp> hmm, not a bunch, but this: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/issues/983#issuecomment-449882098
2024-11-18T22:37:14 < zyp> ugh, I need to make some target modules for my testrack so I can cross test this shit
2024-11-18T22:37:36 < zyp> IIRC I already have enough boards and parts to test across f4, f7 and h7, just need to assemble them
2024-11-18T22:43:37 < Posterdati> I thought that writing a task scheduler should be the harder thing to do with an arm... Before I tried to use this moronic usb device!
2024-11-18T22:44:19 < zyp> the usb device is fine apart from the quirks
2024-11-18T22:44:45 < Posterdati> the more complex a device is, the more it is likely to fail
2024-11-18T22:45:20 < zyp> also, the more complex a device is, the more likely it is you'll forget to set up something correctly
2024-11-18T22:45:41 < zyp> but conversely, the simpler a design is, the more likely it is you'll run into a corner case it can't handle properly
2024-11-18T22:45:54 < Posterdati> yes
2024-11-18T22:46:06 < Posterdati> there was a regress
2024-11-18T22:46:22 < Posterdati> initially arm based devices were used for they simplicity
2024-11-18T22:46:46 < zyp> initially when?
2024-11-18T22:47:14 < Posterdati> when they were 16/32 bit cpu only
2024-11-18T22:47:20 < Posterdati> with a risc arch
2024-11-18T22:47:28 < Posterdati> now they are not risc
2024-11-18T22:48:32 < Posterdati> now an mcu has to go on mars too and return
2024-11-18T22:48:45 < Posterdati> too many functions
2024-11-18T22:48:52 < Posterdati> in one device only...
2024-11-18T22:50:09 < Posterdati> it would be nice to know the bug rate vs complexity of those device in time, starting from the str32 on
2024-11-18T22:50:54 < zyp> meh
2024-11-18T22:51:16 < zyp> you can still buy avrs, go play with them if arm makes you unhappy :)
2024-11-18T22:51:27 < Posterdati> I use them too
2024-11-18T22:51:51 < Posterdati> they firt their role
2024-11-18T22:51:55 < Posterdati> fit
2024-11-18T22:53:04 < zyp> nah
2024-11-18T22:53:55 < Posterdati> are you referring to 8 bit cores?
2024-11-18T22:55:38 < zyp> I find it hard to justify putting any sort of avr into a project today
2024-11-18T22:56:13 < zyp> not counting legacy maintenance
2024-11-18T22:56:20 < Posterdati> true
2024-11-18T22:56:51 < Posterdati> but sometimes projects are too complex in most cases and 32 bit mcus are cheap...
2024-11-18T22:57:10 < zyp> maybe if you've got a dead simple project that needs to drive 5V IO
2024-11-18T22:57:58 < zyp> not that there's not cortex-m with 5V IO, but none that I've used
2024-11-18T22:58:14 < Posterdati> never seen one
2024-11-18T22:58:23 < Posterdati> are cortex 5 V too?
2024-11-18T22:58:37 < zyp> I seem to recall nuvoton has some, but I've never used them
2024-11-18T22:58:47 < Posterdati> ah
2024-11-18T22:59:13 < zyp> and there's some automotive ones as well, but they're overkill for any project I'd consider an avr for in the first place
2024-11-18T23:00:12 < zyp> https://www.nuvoton.com/products/microcontrollers/arm-cortex-m0-mcus/nuc029-series/
2024-11-18T23:01:13 < Posterdati> ah they are kV insulated
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2024-11-18T23:24:23 < ventYl> question: after CPU reset via AIRCR, what is the system clock selected? one selected before the reset?
2024-11-18T23:38:38 < ventYl> hm, RCC_Deinit should set it into default state
2024-11-18T23:38:43 < ventYl> so the problem is somewhere else
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2024-11-19T00:34:55 < karlp> toshiba and qorvo have 5v cortex as well, and IIRC, renesas too, 
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2024-11-19T00:44:40 < zyp> I made some shit to pack const buffers: https://godbolt.org/z/eno6MhnPb
2024-11-19T00:44:48 < zyp> partly to replace this: https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/usb/descriptor.h
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2024-11-19T00:48:40 < zyp> C++ has evolved a bit since I wrote that shit
2024-11-19T00:49:05 < zyp> which style is more readable? the .append() style or the << style?
2024-11-19T00:51:33 < nomorekaki> .
2024-11-19T00:52:31 < zyp> I don't know, I think I prefer the << style
2024-11-19T00:52:48 < qyx> append is more readable
2024-11-19T00:53:15 < qyx> I (as a no-c++-er) hate <</>> for anything else than bit shift
2024-11-19T01:03:06 < zyp> operators have the advantage that they can be used in fold expressions, but at that point I might as well stick it into a function: https://godbolt.org/z/bzKM3W3z9
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2024-11-19T01:39:10 < zyp> huh, gcc is being silly
2024-11-19T01:39:54 < zyp> was wondering what gcc would do if make a function that takes a pointer and does a memcpy from a constexpr array to it
2024-11-19T01:40:25 < zyp> it stashes the constexpr data in .rodata, copies it to stack, then calls memcpy from the copy on the stack
2024-11-19T01:41:05 < zyp> if it's small it does an inlined copy, if it's large it invokes memcpy
2024-11-19T01:43:59 < zyp> clang gets it right
2024-11-19T01:48:54 < zyp> a bit poking around and clang also gets it wrong
2024-11-19T01:53:18 < ventYl> heh... visual c++ still mostly doesn't support C++23
2024-11-19T01:55:28 < zyp> modules is a bit of a headache, but I think I've mostly tamed them now
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2024-11-19T02:00:35 < zyp> having classic includes breaks stuff once in a while, and switching them to header unit imports fixes that, but currently I have to manually list header units to build in the erect blueprint
2024-11-19T02:01:35 < zyp> I think I need to improve that so I can build header units on demand when they're requested
2024-11-19T02:02:05 < qyx> zyp: ot, what do you think about running code from ram wrt. performance impact?
2024-11-19T02:02:42 < qyx> not from the "routine booster" sram, but a generic one
2024-11-19T02:02:53 < zyp> depends very much on the memory architecture
2024-11-19T02:04:29 < qyx> iirc many stm32 has single port sram except those with two single port srams?
2024-11-19T02:04:42 < qyx> but I remember seeing somehih with a dual port one
2024-11-19T02:05:47 < zyp> IIRC when F4 was new, there was an appnote benchmarking various memory layouts (code in flash, code in regular sram, code in ccm and so on, with various .data/stack locations as well)
2024-11-19T02:06:30 < zyp> and as far as I remember, code in flash was the fastest, because the other options suffered from bus contention
2024-11-19T02:07:05 < qyx> yeah makes sense
2024-11-19T02:07:53 < zyp> then again, ccm on f4 was on d-bus, not i-bus
2024-11-19T02:08:07 < zyp> some newer stm32s have ccm on i-bus IIRC
2024-11-19T02:08:21 < zyp> and f7/h7 has tcm
2024-11-19T02:09:11 < qyx> yes I remember that i/d bus inconsistency
2024-11-19T02:09:14 < zyp> I expect that code in I-TCM would be the fastest option
2024-11-19T02:09:40 < zyp> AIUI I-TCM and I-cache is pretty similar
2024-11-19T02:10:25 < qyx> checking u5 bus matrix and it looks like both internal flash and sram1 are i-cacheable
2024-11-19T02:10:30 < zyp> so an application with a high percentage of cache-hits would probably not see a significant difference
2024-11-19T02:10:55 < qyx> but no sram can be d-cacheable
2024-11-19T02:11:10 < qyx> so I guess the contention is sopved by the i-cache?
2024-11-19T02:11:34 < zyp> does cortex-m33 have cache?
2024-11-19T02:11:45 < qyx> apparently yes
2024-11-19T02:11:57 < zyp> remember m4 doesn't, hence why contention is an issue for f4
2024-11-19T02:12:03 < zyp> m7 does
2024-11-19T02:12:31 < zyp> m33 I haven't worked a whole lot with yet
2024-11-19T02:13:49 < qyx> i should probably read something about it before guessing
2024-11-19T02:14:03 < zyp> I have another perspective on this too
2024-11-19T02:14:22 < zyp> if you use ram for execution, you have less ram available for data
2024-11-19T02:14:33 < qyx> not an issue with 2.5M
2024-11-19T02:14:53 < zyp> YMMV :)
2024-11-19T02:15:10 < qyx> and it could help a lot with dynamic epf loading
2024-11-19T02:15:15 < qyx> *elf
2024-11-19T02:15:59 < zyp> the h7s I'm working on now is marketed as a «bootflash» mcu
2024-11-19T02:16:12 < qyx> 128k omly?
2024-11-19T02:16:14 < zyp> > Bootflash single-core lines: 600 MHz Cortex®-M7 core with cost-optimized 64 Kbytes of bootflash (user-flash), and full external memory flexibility, scalability, with fast execution.
2024-11-19T02:16:44 < qyx> yeah like h750
2024-11-19T02:17:23 < zyp> kinda
2024-11-19T02:17:53 < zyp> still only have 620k of internal flash
2024-11-19T02:18:03 < zyp> but this devboard has 32M external
2024-11-19T02:18:06 < zyp> IIRC
2024-11-19T02:18:52 < zyp> the XSPI block is pretty cool
2024-11-19T02:19:24 < qyx> does it support dual hyperbus?
2024-11-19T02:19:31 < zyp> this ram is 16b wide at 200MHz DDR
2024-11-19T02:19:34 < zyp> yeah, that too
2024-11-19T02:19:35 < qyx> I mean in parallel
2024-11-19T02:19:36 < jbo> did somebody say H750? -__-
2024-11-19T02:19:48 < jbo> the PTSD is real
2024-11-19T02:20:14 < jbo> "oh, here's an MCU where you pretty much absolutely need XIP to do anything with it". "oh, here's a speculative execution bug in the silicon" -________-
2024-11-19T02:20:17 < jbo> make it staaahaaaap
2024-11-19T02:20:22 < zyp> :D
2024-11-19T02:22:09 < qyx> jbo triggered, lets run
2024-11-19T02:22:23 < ventYl> I wonder if some of stuff I've seen was actually that speculative execution bug
2024-11-19T02:22:41 < qyx> no you are not running from external memory
2024-11-19T02:22:56 < ventYl> as my current assumption is that I've only utilized some UB
2024-11-19T02:23:42 < qyx> idk, I like routing h7s, you like programming them, hitting bugs is yours shit
2024-11-19T02:23:43 < ventYl> I'd expect that as XIP is hidden behind cache / bus, it does not really depend on where you are running from
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2024-11-19T10:09:58 < Posterdati> hi
2024-11-19T10:12:34 < Posterdati> please help, how can I check if 48MHz clock is delivered to the USB OTG? I'm using an stm32h723 with 48 MHz derived by PLL3 Q. Thanks!
2024-11-19T10:32:11 < zyp> Posterdati, are you using HAL for clock config, or doing it manually?
2024-11-19T10:34:27 < Posterdati> baremetal
2024-11-19T10:36:06 < zyp> hmm, how does the PHY stuff work in this setup
2024-11-19T10:36:50 < Posterdati> I did this: 1. init prescaler for pll3 to 4; 2. set the pll3 config to vco from 192 to 836 MHz, PLLRGE 8 to 16 MHz, n = 30, p = 1, q = 10, r = 2; 3. enable pll3; 4. wait for pll3 ready
2024-11-19T10:37:04 < Posterdati> zyp: device mode
2024-11-19T10:37:45 < zyp> ah, internal FS phy, external ULPI option
2024-11-19T10:37:56 < zyp> and you're running with the FS phy selected, right?
2024-11-19T10:37:59 < Posterdati> yes, I have a nucleo-h723zg
2024-11-19T10:38:06 < Posterdati> yes
2024-11-19T10:38:15 < zyp> I'm too lazy to look up the nucleo schematic, but ok
2024-11-19T10:38:50 < zyp> so did you set RCC_D2CCIP2R.USBSEL = 2?
2024-11-19T10:39:04 < Posterdati> A9 = vbus = not configured; a10 = busid = not configured; a11,a12 = d+, d- alternate function af10
2024-11-19T10:39:29 < Posterdati> I selected PLL3_Q for usb
2024-11-19T10:39:35 < zyp> right
2024-11-19T10:39:44 < Posterdati> clocks are:
2024-11-19T10:40:07 < zyp> if you suspect clocking fuckups, I'd suggest starting HSI48 and setting USBSEL=3
2024-11-19T10:40:19 < Posterdati> I did it too
2024-11-19T10:40:24 < Posterdati> not working, same problem
2024-11-19T10:40:35 < zyp> so it's probably not a clock source problem then
2024-11-19T10:40:41 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T10:41:04 < Posterdati> PLL1 enabled
2024-11-19T10:41:09 < Posterdati> PLL2 disabled
2024-11-19T10:41:12 < zyp> FWIW I used HSI48 yesterday, didn't have to set USBSEL since it's selected by default in h7s
2024-11-19T10:41:21 < Posterdati> PLL3 enabled qith Q delivering 48MHz clock
2024-11-19T10:42:40 < Posterdati> PLLVCOClocks[] = { 550MHz, 258MHz, 480MHz }
2024-11-19T10:42:45 < zyp> are you set up so you can peek/poke registers in the debugger? how much monitoring do you have of what's happening on the USB bus?
2024-11-19T10:43:44 < Posterdati> I can see registers, I can see that they are written, but gintsts stays dead, no change in it and so no irq triggered :)
2024-11-19T10:44:15 < Posterdati> I write and read reagister 32bit at the time
2024-11-19T10:44:32 < zyp> do you know whether the D+ pullup is applied on the bus or not?
2024-11-19T10:44:40 < Posterdati> I do not
2024-11-19T10:44:57 < zyp> so you're pretty much working blind
2024-11-19T10:45:00 < Posterdati> PHY should do that as far as SDIS is cleared
2024-11-19T10:45:06 < Posterdati> I am
2024-11-19T10:45:11 < zyp> you're testing against a linux host?
2024-11-19T10:45:15 < Posterdati> yes
2024-11-19T10:45:22 < zyp> dmesg shows nothing?
2024-11-19T10:45:59 < Posterdati> lsusb shows nothing
2024-11-19T10:46:16 < zyp> fuck lsusb, it only shows devices that managed to enumerate correctly
2024-11-19T10:46:17 < Posterdati> but no usb reset or enumeration irqs happened
2024-11-19T10:46:25 < zyp> many things can break before a device shows up in lsusb
2024-11-19T10:46:25 < jpa-> lsusb will not show anything until enumeration is complete, dmesg will show if the pullup is enabled
2024-11-19T10:46:29 < jpa-> have you set GCCFG_NOVBUSSENS?
2024-11-19T10:46:43 < jpa-> (you might as well just pastebin your source code)
2024-11-19T10:46:45 < zyp> jpa-, does that bit exist in h7?
2024-11-19T10:46:50 < Posterdati> it only shows mbed 
2024-11-19T10:47:10 < jpa-> zyp: hmm
2024-11-19T10:47:13 < zyp> no, it doesn't
2024-11-19T10:47:13 < Posterdati> nothing
2024-11-19T10:47:29 < Posterdati> I enbled the phy
2024-11-19T10:47:32 < Posterdati> and vbden
2024-11-19T10:47:41 < zyp> how does GOTGCTL read?
2024-11-19T10:47:42 < Posterdati> leaved a9 not configured
2024-11-19T10:47:46 < Posterdati> wait
2024-11-19T10:48:28 < Posterdati> CIDST = 1
2024-11-19T10:48:51 < jpa-> ah, yeah, STM32H7 has the inverse VBDEN which should stay 0.. and the PWRDWN which should be 1
2024-11-19T10:48:53 < zyp> just give me the raw hex value
2024-11-19T10:49:03 < Posterdati> fuck!
2024-11-19T10:49:11 < jpa-> give raw value of OTG_GCCFG readback from debugger too
2024-11-19T10:49:21 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T10:49:57 < Posterdati> GCCFG = 0x200000
2024-11-19T10:50:07 < Posterdati> vbden = 1
2024-11-19T10:51:10 < zyp> FWIW my GCCFG is 0x90000
2024-11-19T10:51:21 < jpa-> GCCFG seems exactly wrong.. PWRDWN is not set when it should be (PWRDWN = 1 means power not down..) and VBDEN should be 0 unless you use VBUS pin
2024-11-19T10:51:40 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T10:51:55 < Posterdati> should not it be sensed by A9?
2024-11-19T10:52:03 < zyp> hmm, not sure why I have PDEN hooked up
2024-11-19T10:52:10 < Posterdati> now
2024-11-19T10:52:22 < Posterdati> the board has got a led which is driven by the cable
2024-11-19T10:52:26 < Posterdati> and it is lit
2024-11-19T10:52:37 < Posterdati> so PC is delivering 5V
2024-11-19T10:52:53 < zyp> VBDEN=1 is probably fine, but you need PWRDWN=1 too
2024-11-19T10:52:55 < Posterdati> A9 is connected with 10k resistor to it
2024-11-19T10:53:00 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T10:53:13 < Posterdati> sure it is all powered down...
2024-11-19T10:55:07 < Posterdati> recompiling
2024-11-19T10:55:26 < Posterdati> flashing
2024-11-19T10:56:15 < Posterdati> same
2024-11-19T10:56:24 < Posterdati> dmesg reports nothing
2024-11-19T10:57:27 < Posterdati> should powerdown be enabled before configuring?
2024-11-19T10:59:33 < jpa-> does GPIOA->IDR read that PA9 is high?
2024-11-19T10:59:58 < Posterdati> A9 = not configured, let me check
2024-11-19T11:00:51 < Posterdati> IDR9 = 0
2024-11-19T11:05:46 < Posterdati> there's no AF10 config for A9, A11 and A12 on the datasheet for h723 (page 73)
2024-11-19T11:06:04 < zyp> VBUS is not AF
2024-11-19T11:06:19 < jpa-> the vbus sensing is an analog input
2024-11-19T11:06:57 < zyp> configuring VBUS to AF is a common mistake, it'll make it a low output or something, which draws a bunch of current and heats up the mcu
2024-11-19T11:07:48 < jpa-> (though not if you have series resistor, but still won't work :)
2024-11-19T11:08:20 < Posterdati> there's a 10k connecting A9 to vbus
2024-11-19T11:08:21 < zyp> with a series resistor it'll just drive it down and read as disconnected, stopping it from enumerating
2024-11-19T11:08:59 < zyp> without a series resistor, VBUS will overpower the output buffer and read as connected, letting USB work fine, while heating up the chip
2024-11-19T11:12:53 < Posterdati> should be the push pull disabled if the port is in input/analog mode?
2024-11-19T11:18:56 < zyp> ?
2024-11-19T11:21:10 < Posterdati> when a port is in analog or input mode, is pushpull automatically disabled?
2024-11-19T11:23:36 < jpa-> i think so
2024-11-19T11:23:48 < jpa-> but i think AF can override it
2024-11-19T11:23:54 < jpa-> because some peripherals have bidirectional pins
2024-11-19T11:24:56 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T11:25:28 < Posterdati> in analog and input the pullup and pulldown can be used too I think
2024-11-19T11:26:47 < karlp> zyp: does your thing with .append<uint16> does that magically do the right ordering for usb? or what defines that? and will it magically do the "right" thing for strings to ucs16? shits?
2024-11-19T11:32:03 < karlp> re caching: m4 doesn't itself, but some impls did.  the k70 we have on one platform at work does, 8kb of i and d, btu the tm4c that replaced it doesnt, and it has substantially worse performance on things that were not considered at the time.
2024-11-19T11:44:56 < Posterdati> this is insane! Please what is the config for D+ and D-? AF10? analog input? input? Thanks
2024-11-19T11:47:01 < jpa-> Posterdati: i have used INPUT FLOATING HIGHSPEED AF0 for PA11 & PA12, i think the AF doesn't really matter when USB takes over
2024-11-19T11:47:10 < zyp> karlp, usb is LE, so byteswapping is not required
2024-11-19T11:47:47 < zyp> for BE, it'd be a matter of reversing the converted array before concatenating them
2024-11-19T11:48:54 < zyp> I haven't done string descriptors yet, but I figure it should be straight forward to make a function that takes a utf-16 string view and returns an array
2024-11-19T11:49:17 < zyp> hmm, kinda, string views are not compile time constant
2024-11-19T11:49:25 < zyp> but I can probably steal tricks from smolt
2024-11-19T11:58:52 < Posterdati> :(
2024-11-19T11:59:58 < jpa-> Posterdati: have you tried without VBDEN? because that at least rules out one thing
2024-11-19T12:00:13 < Posterdati> setting it to zero_
2024-11-19T12:00:14 < Posterdati> ?
2024-11-19T12:00:29 < jpa-> yes
2024-11-19T12:01:16 < Posterdati> let me check
2024-11-19T12:01:56 < Posterdati> same
2024-11-19T12:02:43 < zyp> have you checked dmesg that there's still no D+ activity?
2024-11-19T12:02:47 < jpa-> and make sure you have cleared SDIS in DCTL
2024-11-19T12:02:51 < Posterdati> no d+ on dmesg
2024-11-19T12:02:55 < jpa-> (it's set by default)
2024-11-19T12:02:56 < Posterdati> could it be broken?
2024-11-19T12:03:21 < zyp> the hardware? unlikely
2024-11-19T12:03:37 < zyp> if you're unsure, just try it with a demo firmware
2024-11-19T12:03:48 < Posterdati> is what I was thinking of, the board is working, just running three threads just now :(
2024-11-19T12:03:50 < Posterdati> :)
2024-11-19T12:04:54 < Posterdati> I'm using a micro B connected to cn13 and another micro B for stlink to the other side
2024-11-19T12:05:15 < Posterdati> cn13 id ab compatible port
2024-11-19T12:06:10 < Posterdati> accepts a and b type cable
2024-11-19T12:08:59 < Posterdati> I setted fdmod before powering the phy, does it matter?
2024-11-19T12:10:12 < Posterdati> enable nvic irq OTG_HS_IRQn with priority = 77
2024-11-19T12:10:28 < Posterdati> but gintsts stays dead
2024-11-19T12:10:38 < Posterdati> no bit change in it
2024-11-19T12:11:48 < Posterdati> GINTSTS = 0x4000020 after config
2024-11-19T12:13:52 < jpa-> you could just dump all the OTG registers and put into pastebin
2024-11-19T12:14:35 < jpa-> MMIS in GINTSTS seems suspicious
2024-11-19T12:15:00 < Posterdati> before I used lacks config mmis interrupt was issued
2024-11-19T12:15:44 < jpa-> i can't even understand what that sentence is supposed to mean
2024-11-19T12:17:18 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T12:17:21 < Posterdati> no problem
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2024-11-19T12:30:08 < karlp> they tried copying "laks" init code.
2024-11-19T12:31:12 < jpa-> so, consistently getting MMIS.. might be worth looking into why
2024-11-19T12:31:28 < jpa-> (naturally you don't get interrupt if you don't enable interrupts, but checking the flag is enough)
2024-11-19T12:36:54 < Posterdati> does registers can be written into OTG peripheral if clock isn't delivered?
2024-11-19T12:40:57 < jpa-> if bus clock is active, then registers can probably be written but might act weird
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2024-11-19T13:17:56 < Posterdati> jpa-: clock is working then, using init() function from https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/usb/dwc_otg.h did not solve the issue
2024-11-19T13:19:30 < zyp> Posterdati, if you don't have this solved by tonight, I could try making a h723 build of my code that you can test :)
2024-11-19T13:23:03 < Posterdati> thanks
2024-11-19T13:23:27 < Posterdati> I'm looking for original st firmware
2024-11-19T13:23:33 < Posterdati> to test the board
2024-11-19T13:23:52 < Posterdati> but I think it is working
2024-11-19T13:24:05 < Posterdati> no hw problem I think
2024-11-19T13:24:36 < Posterdati> mmmh I can't find a mbed test firmware to download on the st site :)
2024-11-19T13:40:11 < qyx> liebe pros, where do I shop for ali stuff in eu without ali/ebay hassle?
2024-11-19T13:40:21 < qyx> some chink stuff distributor
2024-11-19T13:40:53 < qyx> more specifically, I want m.2 pcie to sata driver 6port, or some sata expander
2024-11-19T13:43:55 < jpa-> what hassle?
2024-11-19T13:45:55 < qyx> idk
2024-11-19T13:46:42 < c10ud> amazon
2024-11-19T13:52:28 < karlp> just order it like normal? I'm not seeing the hassle you're trying to avoid?
2024-11-19T13:58:21 < qyx> I am truly amazed amazon actually works here
2024-11-19T14:21:34 < Posterdati> for the HSI48 clock it is necessary to configure the CSR?
2024-11-19T14:22:14 < zyp> no
2024-11-19T14:22:25 < Posterdati> thanks
2024-11-19T14:22:58 < Posterdati> so it is suffice to enable it in rcc and wait for it to be ready. Isn't it?
2024-11-19T14:23:12 < zyp> I mean, you don't need CSR for it to generate a clock, but you need CSR to get a stable robust clock
2024-11-19T14:23:24 < zyp> FWIW I haven't enabled CSR on the test I did yesterday
2024-11-19T14:23:31 < zyp> and yeah
2024-11-19T14:23:40 < zyp> set HSI48EN, wait for HSI48RDY
2024-11-19T14:23:41 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T14:23:46 < zyp> or whatever they were called
2024-11-19T14:23:55 < Posterdati> good what for USB?
2024-11-19T14:24:11 < Posterdati> does it need CSR for usb clock?
2024-11-19T14:25:02 < zyp> it should be able to enumerate fine on HSI48 without CSR
2024-11-19T14:25:34 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T14:26:55 < zyp> but without CSR it's not guaranteed to stay within the 0.25% tolerance that USB FS requires, so it can fail e.g. if your board is getting hot
2024-11-19T14:27:18 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T14:27:36 < zyp> that happened to the first prototypes I made with crystalless USB, people reported they worked fine and dropped out when they got hot
2024-11-19T14:27:46 < zyp> s/and/until/
2024-11-19T14:28:14 < zyp> enabled CRS, and the issue disappeared
2024-11-19T14:28:24 < jpa-> for me it happened with STM32L151 (which doesn't have CSR but can work with USB on RC osc), as it aged it drifted too far from the factory calibration
2024-11-19T14:29:41 < zyp> yeah
2024-11-19T14:41:01 < ventYl> I've had similar problems with HSI48
2024-11-19T14:41:07 < ventYl> on H753
2024-11-19T14:41:23 < ventYl> USB was working until it wasn't
2024-11-19T15:00:54 < c10ud> qyx, are you not eurobro? I thought amazon was avail in the eu
2024-11-19T15:01:06 < c10ud> *whole* eu, i mean
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2024-11-19T15:17:02 < Posterdati> zyp: this is fun! CSRST stays on and did not clear...
2024-11-19T15:22:57 < zyp> I think I've seen that before
2024-11-19T15:26:05 < zyp> ah, yep
2024-11-19T15:26:13 < zyp> http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/freenode/2012-09.log
2024-11-19T15:26:13 < zyp> 2012-09-04T23:41:50 < zyp> TheSeven, I did pretty much what you are doing, and I had to introduce a delay after phy selection before core reset, otherwise the usb core locked up during reset
2024-11-19T15:27:34 < zyp> that would be https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/usb/dwc_otg.h#L141
2024-11-19T15:27:57 < zyp> and that's moot on FS-only instances, since PHYSEL is not writable on those
2024-11-19T15:30:41 < Posterdati> but it is commented out!
2024-11-19T15:31:10 < zyp> yeah, and yesterday I tested this on a OTG_FS instance
2024-11-19T15:31:38 < zyp> but on instances with a switchable PHY, it might be needed
2024-11-19T15:32:53 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T15:32:58 < Posterdati> let's try it
2024-11-19T15:36:04 < Posterdati> timeout
2024-11-19T15:36:18 < zyp> hmm?
2024-11-19T15:36:41 < Posterdati> CSRST stays on
2024-11-19T15:37:13 < zyp> even with a 10ms pause before setting it?
2024-11-19T15:37:25 < zyp> that sounds like a clock issue
2024-11-19T15:37:29 < Posterdati> I looped from 0 to 1e6
2024-11-19T15:41:00 < Posterdati> should ULPI clock be enabled?
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2024-11-19T15:44:41 < qyx> c10ud: we have a large amazon warehouse here but in the past we couldn't order, apparently it changed
2024-11-19T15:44:49 < qyx> in the past = 2012-15
2024-11-19T15:45:05 < qyx> I haven't checked since
2024-11-19T15:48:51 < Posterdati> zyp: ?
2024-11-19T15:49:17 < zyp> Posterdati, I don't think so
2024-11-19T15:49:27 < Posterdati> ok
2024-11-19T15:49:37 < Posterdati> I have hsi48 enabled
2024-11-19T15:49:56 < zyp> and USBSEL selecting HSI48?
2024-11-19T15:50:39 < Posterdati> yes
2024-11-19T15:50:45 < Posterdati> in RCC
2024-11-19T15:50:57 < zyp> should be good
2024-11-19T15:51:00 < Posterdati> USBSEL = 3
2024-11-19T15:51:30 < Posterdati> HSI48ON = 1
2024-11-19T15:51:39 < Posterdati> HSI48RDY = 1
2024-11-19T15:58:09 < Posterdati> unbelievable, this is crap
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2024-11-19T16:05:44 < Posterdati> can we exclude is it broken?
2024-11-19T16:06:51 < zyp> no, but you know in practice it's never broken hardware, always your own software broken in some way or another
2024-11-19T16:07:16 < Posterdati> 99%
2024-11-19T16:07:24 < zyp> unless you have a known good software build that doesn't work, or demonstrate it working on another hardware
2024-11-19T16:17:45 < Posterdati> should the phy be enabled before reset via CSRST?
2024-11-19T16:20:56 < zyp> enabled how?
2024-11-19T16:21:18 < Posterdati> via PWRDWN bit in GCCFG
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2024-11-19T16:22:54 < zyp> no
2024-11-19T16:23:01 < Posterdati> then I quit
2024-11-19T16:35:42 < Posterdati> I would never use such a device in the future, it is not practical
2024-11-19T16:35:57 < Posterdati> too complex even for stupid things
2024-11-19T16:41:59 < jpa-> why aren't you just using a usb lib?
2024-11-19T16:45:35 < ventYl> Posterdati: simply use tinyusb. even more so if you plan to bolt any RTOS on top of it, as that STM USB lib does bulk of the work in ISRs and that will cause a mayhem to the RTOS scheduler
2024-11-19T16:45:38 < Posterdati> I always do baremetal programming with mcus
2024-11-19T16:46:00 < fenugrec> well... USB is complex
2024-11-19T16:46:23 < Posterdati> I already used an stm32f407 like that
2024-11-19T16:46:36 < ventYl> its actually not *that* complex, but I wouldn't like to reimplement the whole protocol stack
2024-11-19T16:46:48 < Posterdati> it was capable to sample slow accelerometers and put data on usb
2024-11-19T16:47:04 < ventYl> F4 probably has different PHY which has considerable part of the protocol hard-wired into the PHY
2024-11-19T16:47:11 < Posterdati> ventYl: it is
2024-11-19T16:47:14 < ventYl> so the HW deals even with stuff like endpoints, etc.
2024-11-19T16:47:28 < ventYl> H7 is different, you'll implement all that by yourself
2024-11-19T16:47:52 < fenugrec> ventYl it is complex, when you start having problems only on Win* machines, only certain machines, on certain days
2024-11-19T16:48:47 < ventYl> fenugrec: please, oh please, let me live my happy live full of lies that my SW will run when connected to Windows machine flawlessly one more day :)
2024-11-19T16:49:15 < ventYl> s/live/life/
2024-11-19T16:49:21 < fenugrec> ok. USB is plug-and-play and portable for every one in the chain, from stack devs to users !
2024-11-19T16:49:43 < jpa-> F4 usb should be pretty much same as H7 usb
2024-11-19T16:50:01 < qyx> I am will never be the same as I was 10y ago
2024-11-19T16:50:08 < qyx> -am
2024-11-19T16:50:29 < fenugrec> qyx did USB hurt you too ?
2024-11-19T16:50:48 < ventYl> no, he shifted this opportunity to me :)
2024-11-19T16:50:57 < jpa-> ventYl: what is different on H7? it's the same otg core?
2024-11-19T16:51:09 < ventYl> but I already suffered some damage from dealing with winusb
2024-11-19T16:51:58 < ventYl> jpa-: I probably meant G4. There I remember some note in tinyusb sources that only supports X endpoints.
2024-11-19T16:52:20 < ventYl> or something similar. different core than the DWC
2024-11-19T16:54:26 < karlp> jpa-: should, but from experience with people's bug reports, the different core revs give people pain with a few little corners
2024-11-19T16:54:37 < karlp> "pretty much" is not close enough
2024-11-19T16:54:59 < fenugrec> karlp shhhh now, we're going with 'USB is nice' today
2024-11-19T16:56:00 < karlp> it is :)
2024-11-19T16:56:24 < karlp> certainly better than the fucking oiml/welmec/mid shit I've been working with the last few days
2024-11-19T16:56:27 < ventYl> it is nicer than I expected it to be
2024-11-19T16:56:33 < jpa-> karlp: i agree, i usually check chibios souces to see the small diffs :)
2024-11-19T17:03:12 < karlp> zyp: if I've got a ?norwewgian? regulation name like, "N-18/2006 tillegg 1" where can get a copy of that?
2024-11-19T17:06:10 < Posterdati> ok I found the problem with CSRST
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2024-11-19T17:29:46 < jpa-> standard.no has very fuzzy search.. 15 is same as 18, apparently
2024-11-19T17:45:02 < Posterdati> now I was able to set the OTG in device mode forcing with FD_MOS and checking CMOD
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2024-11-19T18:00:24 < karlp> jpa-: (and zyp) neevermind, these numbers were apparently specific _approval_ numbers, not what norwegian variant of eu regs were applied.
2024-11-19T18:00:59 < karlp> and https://cert.justervesenet.no/ no longer seems to let them all be publically available. apparently they used to.
2024-11-19T18:59:06 < zyp> karlp, so you probably want some NS EN whatever thing then?
2024-11-19T18:59:26 < zyp> fwiw «tillegg» means appendix
2024-11-19T19:08:08 < qyx> wewere talking about NASes recently, I am very tempted to do a subrack NAS for 2.5" and nvme
2024-11-19T19:08:46 < zyp> same, kinda
2024-11-19T19:09:20 < qyx> I may even use the current platform I have
2024-11-19T19:09:33 < qyx> and put 3 2280 on a single board
2024-11-19T19:09:58 < zyp> https://www.variscite.com/product/system-on-module-som/cortex-a55/dart-mx95-nxp-i-mx-95/ <- I want to make a carrier for these with two m.2 slots and a SFP+
2024-11-19T19:10:30 < zyp> put a bunch of those into a subrack and hook it up to a 10GbE switch, run a ceph cluster on it
2024-11-19T19:11:16 < zyp> can do a mix of nvme and m.2-sata adapters hooked up to a rackmount 3.5" hotswap enclosure
2024-11-19T19:13:34 < qyx> as I am power preservation oriented, I am still not decided which interface to use for 100mbit+ speeds
2024-11-19T19:15:50 < qyx> the easiest one is probably  usb-hs
2024-11-19T19:16:12 < qyx> not very fast but not very power hungry either
2024-11-19T19:16:27 < qyx> faster than 100base-t1, a bit slower than 1gbase-t1
2024-11-19T19:16:37 < qyx> still only a single lane
2024-11-19T19:16:50 < qyx> compared to sata, pcie, sgmii, whatever
2024-11-19T19:17:15 < qyx> or two pairs for usb-ss
2024-11-19T19:18:03 < zyp> connecting what to what?
2024-11-19T19:20:25 < qyx> boards with nvme to the backplane and to the switch board
2024-11-19T19:20:39 < qyx> I don't want cables on the front panel
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2024-11-19T20:09:06 < Posterdati> zyp: what about PWR? Shall I enable the usb power regulator?
2024-11-19T20:12:47 < zyp> ohh
2024-11-19T20:12:56 < zyp> yeah, probabl
2024-11-19T20:17:09 < Posterdati> lol
2024-11-19T20:17:18 < Posterdati> I'm very tired, you know!
2024-11-19T20:17:23 < Posterdati> lol
2024-11-19T20:24:09 < Posterdati> zyp: BANG!
2024-11-19T20:24:14 < Posterdati> zyp: working
2024-11-19T20:24:19 < Posterdati> LOL!
2024-11-19T20:24:49 < Posterdati> zyp, jpa- et all thanks for the help!
2024-11-19T20:26:13 < Posterdati> now I've got all the f*cked irq bits where they should be
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2024-11-19T21:10:24 < Posterdati> how many profanities spoken!
2024-11-19T21:15:25 < qyx> zyp: have you seen xBase-T1 autogetotiation and 100Base-T1L?
2024-11-19T21:30:28 < Posterdati> Livio: Padre Livio?
2024-11-19T21:44:29 < Posterdati> zyp: it is more like pass some threat on aztech challenge (for commodore 64)
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2024-11-19T22:11:29 < Posterdati> zyp: [357620.318787] usb 1-1.5: new full-speed USB device number 3 using ehci-pci
2024-11-19T22:11:35 < zyp> nice
2024-11-19T22:11:41 < zyp> qyx, no, is that a thing?
2024-11-19T22:12:09 < zyp> there's barely 100M/1G combo phys at all, and I think they need manual selection
2024-11-19T22:12:17 < Posterdati> zyp: now I need to code the rest, interrupt signals RXFLVL :)
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2024-11-19T22:23:58 < qyx> zyp: yes something new apparently
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2024-11-19T23:29:15 < bitmask> T-30 min
2024-11-19T23:29:20 < bitmask> anyone else watching?
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2024-11-19T23:36:19 < sauce> ye
--- Day changed ke marras 20 2024
2024-11-20T00:05:31 < zyp> aww, no catch
2024-11-20T00:05:41 -!- Linux_Kerio [~Linux_Ker@chello089173155197.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2024-11-20T00:05:58 < jbo> make me want to hug jpa- 
2024-11-20T00:13:06 < qyx> did it ka oom?
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2024-11-20T00:15:50 < zyp> they opted for landing the booster in the water instead
2024-11-20T00:17:47 < nomorekaki> how is zyp innovations?
2024-11-20T00:19:15 < nomorekaki> kcell-faker
2024-11-20T00:19:21 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2024-11-20T00:21:49 < nomorekaki> pics?
2024-11-20T00:27:23 < nomorekaki> wait thats karlp project
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2024-11-20T01:19:41 < karlp> no longer public I'm afraid :)
2024-11-20T01:19:45 < karlp> but works super well, 
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2024-11-20T01:32:37 < nomorekaki> not public?
2024-11-20T01:51:57 < qyx> he sold the great idea to his employer?
2024-11-20T01:54:51 < nomorekaki> there is something in github publicly¨
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2024-11-20T02:36:56 < qyx> related, anyone tried official github runners for compiling a stm32 project?
2024-11-20T02:47:19 < nomorekaki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespel bestest plastic there is? very expensive
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2024-11-20T11:15:32 < karlp> well, didint sell it, it was done for work, I just started doing it at home on my own github.
2024-11-20T11:15:41 < karlp> I've shared all the good bits with you already haven't I?
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2024-11-20T11:22:58 < qyx> yeah just don't patent it
2024-11-20T11:24:04 < karlp> these fucks have a wildly inconsistent view on patents.
2024-11-20T11:27:10 < karlp> revised version that will go on v2: no digipots, two channel, less resistors in the bridge that need to be "quality" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MpdCG.png
2024-11-20T11:27:35 < karlp> just waiting on the next mouser7digikey order to try out some mid range resistors, see how much "better" it gets.
2024-11-20T11:27:47 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, i've been using github runners for stm32 compilation for years
2024-11-20T11:28:11 < jpa-> mostly using platformio but also by just installing arm-none-eabi-gcc from apt-get
2024-11-20T11:28:36 < qyx> jpa-: how long are the jobs usually waiting to run on those public runners?
2024-11-20T11:28:44 < jpa-> 1-2 minutes
2024-11-20T11:28:45 < qyx> I lost my patience after 15 minutes
2024-11-20T11:29:29 < jpa-> which runner are you using? i use ubuntu-22.04
2024-11-20T11:29:44 < qyx> none atm, I am using my own and I don't remember which one I tried
2024-11-20T11:29:52 < qyx> but maintaining my own is super hassly
2024-11-20T11:30:00 < karlp> nomorekaki: just for you:https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Xc3JI.png
2024-11-20T11:30:08 < jpa-> the mac and windows runners often have longer wait
2024-11-20T11:30:09 < qyx> it sometimes dies, sometimes segfaults, it keeps losing keys
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2024-11-20T11:52:31 < qyx> jpa-: do you have an example workflow?
2024-11-20T11:55:17 < jpa-> https://github.com/ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware/blob/main/.github/workflows/firmware_build.yml   does it with platformio.. then e.g. blackmagic probe has direct arm-none-eabi-gcc   https://github.com/blackmagic-debug/blackmagic/blob/main/.github/workflows/build-and-upload.yml
2024-11-20T12:02:22 < qyx> carlosperate/arm-none-eabi-gcc-action@v1
2024-11-20T12:02:25 < qyx> aha this is the important part
2024-11-20T12:08:01 < qyx> ok it is doing something
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2024-11-20T12:22:06 < qyx> https://github.com/actions/checkout/issues/1382
2024-11-20T12:22:07 < qyx> this is sad
2024-11-20T13:01:30 < qyx> ok and then I can't reuse a deploy key to fetch multiple repositories
2024-11-20T13:02:05 < qyx> so if I assemble my firmware from many different repos, I need to generaet a keypair for every single one and then use it appropriately
2024-11-20T13:02:11 < qyx> which requires workarounds
2024-11-20T13:05:37 < jpa-> just make them all public
2024-11-20T13:41:38 < qyx> antoher issue, how to "overlay" a proprietary git repo over a public one
2024-11-20T13:41:49 < qyx> yes, without forking and doing the required changes
2024-11-20T13:42:36 < zyp> link the public one as a submodule
2024-11-20T13:43:29 < qyx> yeah but the problem is the public one is the framework
2024-11-20T13:47:47 < qyx> the exact same issue as bouldroot externals
2024-11-20T14:37:00 < nohit> when i enable swo pin (PB3 in stm32f412) in cubemx, it does not generate any additional code, is it because PB3's default configuration in trace alternative function ?
2024-11-20T14:38:12 < zyp> plausible
2024-11-20T14:41:11 < jpa-> or it expects the debug tool to configure it
2024-11-20T14:41:45 < jpa-> ref manual has default values for all the registers so you can check
2024-11-20T14:44:26 < nohit> well, all alternative function registers has 0 as default value
2024-11-20T14:45:24 < nohit> hmm but that's actually the value for trace output
2024-11-20T14:46:27 < jpa-> sure, but is the pin configured as AF?
2024-11-20T14:47:05 < nohit> it is, its an expection in the default values
2024-11-20T14:48:45 < nohit> PB3 and PB4 both have alternative function as default 
2024-11-20T14:49:04 < nohit> PB4 is JTRST
2024-11-20T14:57:59 < jpa-> oh, freecad 1.0 is out
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2024-11-20T16:52:49 < Posterdati> hi
2024-11-20T16:53:26 < Posterdati> zyp: please help, did you experience clock problem for usb using PLL on h7? Thanks!
2024-11-20T17:00:16 < Posterdati> please help, does anyone use c++-11 (gcc) for stm32h? Thanks!
2024-11-20T17:28:29 < zyp> sup
2024-11-20T17:28:51 < zyp> haven't tried PLL for USB yet, but I don't see why that shouldn't work
2024-11-20T17:29:17 < zyp> c++11 is kinda oldfashioned, I use c++20 or c++23 nowadays
2024-11-20T17:40:58 < ventYl> Posterdati: I am using PLL to drive USB on H7 and it works out of the box
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2024-11-20T18:03:15 < Posterdati> ventYl: stable?
2024-11-20T18:04:00 < Posterdati> zyp: c++20? Wow! I do not dare to do so
2024-11-20T18:04:12 < Posterdati> zyp: I think c++ is a bit evil
2024-11-20T18:04:34 < Posterdati> zyp: do you use optimizations?
2024-11-20T18:04:45 < Posterdati> -O1e6 ? Ehehehehe
2024-11-20T18:04:54 < zyp> heh
2024-11-20T18:05:14 < zyp> I've been using coroutines for some years, best part of C++20
2024-11-20T18:05:26 < zyp> currently experimenting with modules
2024-11-20T18:19:43 < ventYl> Posterdati: yes
2024-11-20T18:20:16 < ventYl> the only unstable part is to jump from firmware into DFU bootloader. this tends to not start the USB interface sometimes
2024-11-20T19:43:44 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2024-11-20T19:51:52 < qyx> don't we have a zypsnips chapter on jumping into stock bootloader?
2024-11-20T20:04:39 < qyx> I am cpose to giving up doing anything with github actions
2024-11-20T20:38:31 < Posterdati> ventYl: I recall the time I used an str92x from st it was a real 32 bit v7 arm with some peripherals around the core... Very stable, rock solid, no usb only usart and it performed a boot mechanism from dual eeprom for seemless firmware update. But it has little ram (64k or 96k).
2024-11-20T20:39:14 < Posterdati> I think I used Crap-eil probe to interact with it
2024-11-20T20:39:27 < Posterdati> a foolish probe
2024-11-20T20:39:36 < Posterdati> but amog pro the cheapest
2024-11-20T20:51:16 < ventYl> Posterdati: up until very recently, I've had experience only with rather exotic crap (SH4, V850) and AVR
2024-11-20T20:51:50 < Posterdati> AVR 8 cylinders?
2024-11-20T20:52:01 < Posterdati> I used them a lot
2024-11-20T20:52:24 < Posterdati> for basic 5V devices they are ok, not so fast, but acceptable
2024-11-20T20:59:00 < ventYl> i've used them basically just because they were THT parts and I am lazy to learn soldering SMDs
2024-11-20T20:59:18 < ventYl> in pretty much every other aspect they are basically useless for new designs today
2024-11-20T21:03:31 < antto> did someone say AVR
2024-11-20T21:09:26 < Posterdati> ventYl: smd projects become unfeasible by hand :)
2024-11-20T21:10:37 < ds2> SMD is very feasible by hand and way less frustrating
2024-11-20T21:12:36 < ventYl> yeah, I am just lazy
2024-11-20T21:12:51 < ventYl> and in fact, I have very little for any HW
2024-11-20T21:13:30 < ventYl> also, I suck at designing it. once I forgot to draw GND rail to some communication bus. I wondered why it all stopped working once I disconnected debuggers
2024-11-20T21:14:36 < ds2> SMD helps there, you can see it all on one side instead of going mad flipping back and forth
2024-11-20T21:16:30 < ventYl> that shit was single-layer only
2024-11-20T21:20:00 < antto> ventYl, forgot GND? were you drawing the PCB in MSPaint?
2024-11-20T21:20:14 < ds2> yes but with TH, you have wiring on one side and component markings on the other side so things like pin 1 flips around as you flip the board btwn wiring and components
2024-11-20T21:26:31 < ventYl> antto: sometimes PEBKAC rather than bad tool :)
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2024-11-20T22:12:09 < fenugrec> well not so long ago kicad would silently connect vcc and gnd on logic ICs without showing anything. What an awful idea that was
2024-11-20T22:13:58 < Steffanx> uh what?
2024-11-20T22:54:12 < fenugrec> Steffanx https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/912529
2024-11-20T22:54:20 < fenugrec> "Invisible power pins having the same name are always connected together "
2024-11-20T22:56:59 < antto> that is still how it is
2024-11-20T22:57:13 < antto> invisible power-input pins have special meanings
2024-11-20T22:59:27 < fenugrec> https://klc.kicad.org/symbol/s4/s4.6.html "Hidden symbol pins are generally not allowed for schematic symbols."  they must have tweaked (all?) the libraries then, because it's not a problem anymore
2024-11-20T23:02:23 < antto> of course.. the libraries were completely bleached and remade due to KLC
2024-11-20T23:03:02 < antto> before KLC, and during the "transition" period, the libraries had all kinds of varying quality crap
2024-11-20T23:03:16 < antto> including logic symbols with hidden power pins
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2024-11-20T23:23:19 < karlp> "not so long ago" links to a 2012 issue :)
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2024-11-20T23:44:25 < zyp> but 2012 was last week, right?
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2024-11-20T23:48:41 < antto> kicad v4 was like... yesterday, wasn't it
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2024-11-20T23:58:49 < fenugrec> karlp it was a convenient ticket that summarized the issue. Don't know when it got 'fixed' (although as antto says this was probably a long process) but it did last long past 2012. Besides, 2012 is just like 4 years ago or something
2024-11-20T23:59:37 < fenugrec> I have probably still items on my todo list(s) from even before that
--- Day changed to marras 21 2024
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2024-11-21T01:14:41 < ventYl> zyp: don't you find naked coroutines in C++20..... ugly?
2024-11-21T01:17:02 < zyp> naked how?
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2024-11-21T01:18:16 < ventYl> without std::generator or any other layer on top of it
2024-11-21T01:20:34 < zyp> I *wrote* a layer to go on top of it
2024-11-21T01:21:46 < ventYl> so the answer is yes :)
2024-11-21T01:22:13 < zyp> I mean, std::generator didn't exist at the time, so I wrote my own from scratch: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ZRwgN
2024-11-21T01:22:22 < ventYl> yeah, generator is a C++23 thing
2024-11-21T01:22:36 < ventYl> unless you want to use boost
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2024-11-21T01:23:07 < ventYl> oh, my RTOS got listed in the list of opensource microkernels. author even created "logo" for it as it doesn't have one
2024-11-21T01:23:10 < zyp> haven't really had the use for it yet, but it was a simple and self contained thing to start out with to learn how the coroutine mechanisms works
2024-11-21T01:23:38 < zyp> but the async stuff I've used a bunch
2024-11-21T01:24:47 < zyp> did STL get any standard implementations of that yet?
2024-11-21T01:25:37 < ventYl> of what? generator?
2024-11-21T01:25:51 < zyp> no, async functions
2024-11-21T01:26:33 < ventYl> there's std::async() at least
2024-11-21T01:27:10 < zyp> oh, no, not like that
2024-11-21T01:27:25 < zyp> think «async def» in python
2024-11-21T01:28:13 < ventYl> does language itself even have enough constructs to wrap it into STL somehow?
2024-11-21T01:28:23 < zyp> but no, according to cppreference, it looks like std::generator is the only coroutine template in STL yet
2024-11-21T01:28:42 < zyp> yeah, async functions on their own are pretty simple
2024-11-21T01:28:55 < zyp> they're just chainable coroutines
2024-11-21T01:29:09 < ventYl> ah they are coroutines in trenchcoat
2024-11-21T01:29:15 < ventYl> no generator is the only one
2024-11-21T01:29:25 < ventYl> there are some proposals for C++26 IIRC
2024-11-21T01:29:31 < zyp> this sort of stuff: https://github.com/zyp/laks/blob/main/async/async.h
2024-11-21T01:30:17 < zyp> it's pretty simple, it gives you a function that can both be awaited, await other stuff and then finally return a value
2024-11-21T01:30:19 < ventYl> it does seem that coroutines are not particularly popular part of C++20
2024-11-21T01:30:28 < zyp> it's the best part of C++20
2024-11-21T01:30:39 < ventYl> cppreference is not even complete in this part
2024-11-21T01:31:28 < zyp> anyway, I figure something like that could go into STL because it's almost as obvious and generic as std::generator
2024-11-21T01:32:21 < zyp> the implementation-specific parts are what wraps around this, i.e. what will initially start a chain of async functions, and what will eventually suspend the chain
2024-11-21T01:32:46 < zyp> e.g. an ioloop
2024-11-21T01:33:30 < zyp> I figure STL will eventually get a standard one, like asyncio in python
2024-11-21T01:34:45 < ventYl> eventually
2024-11-21T01:35:08 < zyp> but that's also the part where you'd probably want to write a custom one for e.g. embedded use
2024-11-21T01:35:16 < ventYl> it will probably be similar like other tools, one C++ standard provides the language foundation and then next two or three versions build STL stuff on top of it
2024-11-21T01:35:24 < zyp> yeah
2024-11-21T01:35:44 < ventYl> like C++11, regardless of how much novel it was compared to C++98 is barely usable today
2024-11-21T01:35:55 < zyp> indeed
2024-11-21T01:35:59 < ventYl> you don't really want to use anything older than C++14 under no circumstances
2024-11-21T01:36:33 < zyp> there's always minor things somewhere
2024-11-21T01:36:52 < zyp> I bumped the required standard for a project once just to get std::span
2024-11-21T01:37:16 < zyp> IIRC that was added in 17
2024-11-21T01:38:12 < zyp> and I will probably switch laks to C++23 soon for std::expected
2024-11-21T01:38:37 < ventYl> this one is doable in a DIY fashion
2024-11-21T01:38:52 < zyp> most things are
2024-11-21T01:39:08 < ventYl> we are probably stuck at C++17 for now
2024-11-21T01:39:13 < ventYl> due to compiler / libraries
2024-11-21T01:39:13 < zyp> I've DIYed std::bit_cast
2024-11-21T01:39:35 < zyp> https://github.com/zyp/protonium/blob/main/protonium/include/protonium/bit_cast.h
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2024-11-21T01:41:40 < zyp> the current laks branch I'm working on (modules) requires gcc 14, because anything older has some breaking issues with their module support
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2024-11-21T01:43:01 < zyp> to be honest I'm still a bit iffy about modules due to support still being immature
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2024-11-21T01:43:10 < ventYl> Qt is not clear on what C++ standard the Windows binaries were built with
2024-11-21T01:43:27 < zyp> but I'm also quite happy about them when they do work
2024-11-21T01:43:28 < ventYl> but as the version we're using was built using VS2019 I guess it is C++17
2024-11-21T01:45:11 < zyp> erect still lacks a ton of polish, but I've been using it for some weeks now and am quite happy with how it turned out
2024-11-21T01:46:23 < ventYl> erect?
2024-11-21T01:46:36 < zyp> https://github.com/zyp/erect
2024-11-21T01:47:18 < ventYl> aha
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2024-11-21T01:58:34 < ventYl> I guess that one day I will rewrite kernel into C++
2024-11-21T01:58:36 < ventYl> or even rust
2024-11-21T01:59:03 < ventYl> I already tried to rewrite it into rust and failed miserably
2024-11-21T02:01:48 < ventYl> yet the ugliest part of the code will probably remain as it is, as it is on userspace side of affairs
2024-11-21T02:02:01 < ventYl> and that needs to be supported in plain C as well
2024-11-21T02:07:18 < specing> ventYl: try Ada
2024-11-21T02:09:06 < ventYl> I guess I'll have hard time compiling Ada for something like Cortex-M
2024-11-21T02:09:13 < ventYl> hm, maybe not, because gnat
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2024-11-21T02:50:15 < specing> ventYl: yes, I used Ada on stm32f072, compiling wasn't too hard but I cheated by using their all in one toolchain package plus grew my project into bb-runtimes
2024-11-21T03:41:41 < fenugrec> ventY : port it to forth. bring the 80's back
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2024-11-21T09:36:19 < qyx> rip karl again?
2024-11-21T09:36:28 < qyx> much lava
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2024-11-21T11:24:35 < karlp> meh, nah, good to get it out before I have a flight in a week
2024-11-21T11:24:52 < karlp> fucking grindavik mayor "eruption came as a surprise"
2024-11-21T11:25:05 < karlp> still fucking wild denial
2024-11-21T11:59:01 < zyp> haha
2024-11-21T12:10:26 < ventYl> fenugrec: not that I *need* to rewrite it to anything else
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2024-11-21T13:09:09 < qyx> karlp: what, I have been reading one or two months ago that another evacuation is imminent at the end of november or so
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2024-11-21T14:08:22 < qyx> reached blue lagoon car park O_o
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2024-11-21T15:36:03 < jpa-> meh, i wish kicad had a way to set schematic symbol pin to invisible in a way that it wouldn't just randomly connect into schematic
2024-11-21T15:36:12 < jpa-> when the invisible pin happens to overlap something
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2024-11-21T15:36:44 < qyx> any example?
2024-11-21T15:37:01 < qyx> pins are usually on the perimeter of a symbol, there should be nothing overlapping
2024-11-21T15:43:48 < jpa-> emmc has like 100 unused pins
2024-11-21T15:44:20 < jpa-> and they need to be present in the symbol so that i can mark them free for routing
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2024-11-21T16:01:41 < fenugrec> I skimmed that part of the KLC yesterday, isn't there a way to deal with that
2024-11-21T16:02:22 < fenugrec> oh you want to i.e. route a trace through a random pin, knowing that it's internally N/C
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2024-11-21T16:29:43 < jpa-> yeah, the "free" specifier in schematic symbol works perfectly fine for that
2024-11-21T16:29:58 < jpa-> but you need to place the pins somewhere in the symbol in a way that they won't accidentally contact anything
2024-11-21T16:32:13 < qyx> so whats wrong with eg. placing them inside the symbol?
2024-11-21T16:32:48 < qyx> yes there are pings drawing wires through symbols
2024-11-21T16:32:53 < qyx> but they should suffer for that
2024-11-21T16:32:56 < qyx> *pigs
2024-11-21T16:33:32 < qyx> isn't there any official recommendation? I remember seeing something oh the forum or elsewhere
2024-11-21T16:34:03 < jpa-> it's just crappy trying to bunch the 100 pins there, because it seems they cannot overlap each other either
2024-11-21T16:34:51 < jpa-> for now i just added another unit  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/emmc_free.png
2024-11-21T16:35:07 < jpa-> i guess it acts as useful doc so that people don't wonder about traces going here and there
2024-11-21T16:37:21 < qyx> cna't you mark the unit as unused or invisible?
2024-11-21T16:37:38 < qyx> also, just curious, I have seen using NC pins for routing in octavo documents
2024-11-21T16:37:56 < qyx> but after browsing half of the interweb I came to a conclusion it is not officially supported
2024-11-21T16:38:03 < qyx> they didn't say it either
2024-11-21T16:38:09 < qyx> is it really allowed by the spec?
2024-11-21T16:39:17 < jpa-> at least kingston design rules say "printed circuit board fabrication costs can be reduced by routing directly through these non-functional balls"
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2024-11-21T17:15:08 < karlp> fuckin lol, thought I'd try something modern for esp32 webpage.
2024-11-21T17:15:18 < karlp> vue.js is fucking 520K.
2024-11-21T17:15:23 < karlp> not hosting that on the board.
2024-11-21T17:21:05 < qyx> cough
2024-11-21T17:21:26 < qyx> the most modern thing I dared to try in the webdev world wad bootstrap5 and onsen2
2024-11-21T17:26:58 < karlp> ok, .prod.js is only 160k....
2024-11-21T17:27:38 < karlp> I think I got lost hard last time I tried bootstrap, and vue was "enough" like knockout that I'd ogtten used to
2024-11-21T17:34:40 < qyx> b5 is 152K + 77K for js
2024-11-21T17:34:51 < qyx> idk,never tried vue
2024-11-21T17:35:04 < qyx> onsen is also good specifically for webapps and PWA
2024-11-21T17:35:46 < qyx> I did a UI which had to run on a tablet/phone or a rpi with touchscreen, very good, much recommend
2024-11-21T17:37:59 < karlp> alpine is 60k, looks like it might work, but I think I can pretend taht 160k is ok?
2024-11-21T17:38:28 < qyx> never heard of alpime
2024-11-21T17:38:53 < qyx> is the vue minified and compressed?
2024-11-21T17:39:17 < qyx> if not, it could be smaller and if it was under 300K I would just yolo
2024-11-21T17:39:40 < qyx> even 520K is not problematic on esp32
2024-11-21T17:39:52 < qyx> even on those smallish ones
2024-11-21T17:41:26 < qyx> what he hell is that alpine, I am starting to dislike it on first sigh
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2024-11-21T17:41:47 < karlp> yeah, it's 150 or something in "prod" min, going to jsut pretend it's ok.
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2024-11-21T19:00:20 < ventYl> karlp: svelte compiles to raw JS and tends to generate rather small output, maybe try that?
2024-11-21T19:01:18 < ventYl> the advantage is that as stuff is precompiled, you don't have to compile it. every. fucking. time. you load the page. especially useful for when opening that page on something battery-powered
2024-11-21T19:20:50 < zyp> I figure web is annoying and flash is cheap, so just pick whatever framework you find the least annoying and get a larger flash if you need to
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2024-11-21T21:09:34 < jpa-> just load the javascripts from company webserver, that also provides convenient place to spy on your users and to shut down when you have a new version out
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2024-11-21T23:11:09 < karlp> yeah, the future plan is that this is a webserver on usb, eem/ncm/rndis shit, so you would have access to cloud js anyway, but at least right now, I don't hv that up, so it's just wifi, and because of fucking wpa2-enterprise peap mschap shit, which micropython cant' do, it's an AP only, so I was concerned about having to put the js libs on the flash,
2024-11-21T23:11:46 < karlp> svelte looks like they're trying to sell me something.
2024-11-21T23:12:20 < karlp> might be ok.  vue impl is working ok right now, I just still hate how much fucking html+css shits you have to do have things looking even sort of decent.
2024-11-21T23:13:42 < qyx> related, should I do html+css tonight or populate some new cool boards
2024-11-21T23:13:46 < qyx> with inductive sensing buttons
2024-11-21T23:17:33 < karlp> I'm doing a little bit of trip planning for nz, but about done, video games I thnk
2024-11-21T23:20:36 < qyx> new zealand?
2024-11-21T23:29:09 < karlp> svelte does look good actually.
2024-11-21T23:29:29 < karlp> yeah, we're doign ~2.5weeks in nz and 2.5 weeks in fiji, dec 30 to jan 6
2024-11-21T23:29:34 < karlp> fuck christmas
2024-11-21T23:32:45 < karlp> svelte is still in that family of "no, compile"
2024-11-21T23:40:04 < qyx> dec 30 to jan 6 is one week
2024-11-21T23:40:38 < qyx> so nov 30 it is?
2024-11-21T23:41:05 < qyx> oh yeah you were mentioning the next week
--- Day changed pe marras 22 2024
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2024-11-22T00:48:08 < karlp> nov 30, yeah.
2024-11-22T00:48:12 < karlp> my bad
2024-11-22T00:48:20 < karlp> you don't fly around the world for 6 days if you can avoid it
2024-11-22T01:01:32 < zyp> idk, I went on a weekend trip to the US once
2024-11-22T01:04:11 < zyp> wanted to go for an event, didn't have time to stay longer
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2024-11-22T01:27:43 < karlp> yeah, but it's not optimal.
2024-11-22T01:28:02 < karlp> I flew .is to .au for 6 days once for my fathers funeral too, but it definitely wasn't ideal
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2024-11-22T01:28:22 < karlp> and you literally said, "you couldn't avoid it" :)
2024-11-22T01:28:43 < zyp> I could have not went :)
2024-11-22T01:29:14 < karlp> eh, ok, I'll allow it sombrero.gif
2024-11-22T01:33:04 < zyp> but yeah, flying is expensive, I also prefer getting the most out of the money I spend on a trip
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2024-11-22T02:04:09 < ventYl> std::barrier is apparently roughly equally unpopular as coroutines :)
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2024-11-22T13:14:54 < karlp> feck, just ran into a micropython limitation vs python
2024-11-22T13:15:24 < karlp> was trying to iterate bunch of properties and set them via self.__dict__[name] 
2024-11-22T13:15:31 < karlp> and that's not allowed on micropython
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2024-11-22T14:01:55 < mawk> why not using dir() and getattr/setattr karlp 
2024-11-22T14:02:07 < mawk> even in python you don't always have __dict__ for instance for classes with slots
2024-11-22T14:02:16 < mawk> or with weird metaclasses
2024-11-22T14:06:28 < mawk> something like map(lambda attr: (attr, getattr(obj, attr)), filter(lambda attr: not attr.startswith('__'), dir(obj)))
2024-11-22T14:06:32 < mawk> or whatever
2024-11-22T14:06:46 < mawk> that iterates on the attributes just like if you did obj.__dict__.items()
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2024-11-22T14:49:27 < karlp> I did this in the end: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/QJrt2
2024-11-22T14:49:40 < karlp> let me quickly try getattr
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2024-11-22T14:54:25 < karlp> yeah, that owrks, I wonder why I didn't use it.
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2024-11-22T15:13:58 < jpa-> why so much hate
2024-11-22T15:28:35 < mawk> where's the 8
2024-11-22T16:02:43 < fenugrec>  any vim enjoyers here ? shopping for a code-browsing plugin/script... vim-lsp ? ALE ? oldschool cscope ? 
2024-11-22T16:06:37 < mawk> no
2024-11-22T16:06:40 < mawk> I use emacs
2024-11-22T16:06:50 < mawk> as you should too
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2024-11-22T16:14:29 < fenugrec> I am not very surprised. I would have guessed mawk used either emacs or straight ed
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2024-11-22T17:45:01 -!- jbo_ is now known as jbo-
2024-11-22T17:45:30 < jbo-> vim enjoyer here
2024-11-22T17:46:56 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2024-11-22T17:50:14 < machinehum> jbo-: sup
2024-11-22T17:51:56 < jbo-> no
2024-11-22T17:54:25 < machinehum> okay
2024-11-22T17:54:45 < jbo-> are you ready for tomorrow?
2024-11-22T17:56:28 < machinehum> What's tomorrow?
2024-11-22T17:59:13 < fenugrec> jbo- do you use anything fancy for browsing code (I'm mainly after the basics like jump to definition, etc)
2024-11-22T17:59:37 < jbo-> fenugrec, yes: my brain
2024-11-22T18:00:15 < jbo-> fenugrec, I played around with some stuff but never got anything truly satisfying without spending four weeks customizing it.
2024-11-22T18:00:42 < jbo-> fenugrec, so either I use plain vim + brain or I fire up a full blown IDE
2024-11-22T18:00:54 < jbo-> fenugrec, I am open to suggestions tho. I just like things to be simple.
2024-11-22T18:01:29 < fenugrec> yea I could also use /, *, marks, etc, but I'm hoping for something that needs less... brain
2024-11-22T18:02:26 < jbo-> I'm all pro brain, sorry :/
2024-11-22T18:03:16 < machinehum> cscope is alright if you don't wanna fire up an ide
2024-11-22T18:03:27 < machinehum> I actually just use that + vim
2024-11-22T18:03:34 < fenugrec> don't you have to re-run cscope like all the time though
2024-11-22T18:03:41 < fenugrec> or was that ctags
2024-11-22T18:03:47 < machinehum> hmm
2024-11-22T18:04:09 < machinehum> I just do cscope -R in the project root, just goes brrrr
2024-11-22T18:04:23 < fenugrec> sounds promising
2024-11-22T18:08:45 < jbo-> hmm, it has been a few years, but there was something about cscope that didn't work out for me
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2024-11-22T18:11:45 < machinehum> I also once setup a thing in vim that was decent at "jump to defn type stuff"
2024-11-22T18:11:54 < machinehum> I think it might have been... builtin even/
2024-11-22T18:11:56 < machinehum> ?
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2024-11-22T18:15:33 < bitmask> ugh, this laptop is so slow, I can't wait to replace it in a month
2024-11-22T18:16:42 < jbo-> why can you not wait? it's just a month.
2024-11-22T18:17:12 < bitmask> its a saying...
2024-11-22T18:17:37 < bitmask> I'm excited to replace it, thats all
2024-11-22T18:17:37 < machinehum> autism, jbo has it
2024-11-22T18:18:01 < jbo-> at least I didn't grow up in a trailer park
2024-11-22T18:18:07 < jbo-> bubbles
2024-11-22T18:19:03 < machinehum> I always pictured myself as a ricky type, but fuck bubs is the smart one I'll take it
2024-11-22T18:19:44 < machinehum> I actually have friends that live that life, most of them have sobered up but yea, at one point it was legit fucking hilarious
2024-11-22T18:20:18 < jbo-> it's kinda shitty of you to refer to your family as friends but alright, I'll judge in silence.
2024-11-22T18:20:46 < machinehum> Dude drove his GF's car through his house, smashed into his roomates bed when he was sleeping, they just started fucking screaming at each other
2024-11-22T18:20:52 < machinehum> lol
2024-11-22T18:21:30 < machinehum> jbo-: fuck off we had a doublewide, not that any of you Europeans would know what that is
2024-11-22T18:28:54 < machinehum> bitmask: what laptop you getting?
2024-11-22T18:29:03 < bitmask> macbook pro
2024-11-22T18:29:11 < machinehum> m3?
2024-11-22T18:29:14 < bitmask> m4 
2024-11-22T18:29:22 < machinehum> Didn't even know that was out
2024-11-22T18:29:29 < bitmask> came out a month ago
2024-11-22T18:29:33 < machinehum> Installing atache linux on it?
2024-11-22T18:29:38 < machinehum> Or whatever it's called
2024-11-22T18:30:15 < bitmask> dunno what that is, why would i spend that much on a mac and put linux on it?
2024-11-22T18:30:23 < bitmask> I like os x
2024-11-22T18:30:40 < machinehum> I love my M2, I've been on a 2hr train ride listening to music, irc, building code, went from 100% battery to 99%
2024-11-22T18:30:54 < machinehum> bitmask: Yeah fair
2024-11-22T18:31:09 < machinehum> osx is tolerable for me
2024-11-22T18:31:17 < bitmask> I'm still on a 2015 intel macbook pro
2024-11-22T18:31:24 < bitmask> so jumping to a m4 max is gonna be awesome
2024-11-22T18:31:55 < machinehum> Yeah honestly even going to m1 would be insane
2024-11-22T18:32:05 < machinehum> These processors are wild
2024-11-22T18:32:51 < machinehum> But I think I'll eventually sell this thing and go to an e-elite
2024-11-22T18:33:40 < bitmask> whats the main selling point for that
2024-11-22T18:33:47 < machinehum> Just because qualcom is basically paying a company to upstream shit into linux, which is better for me
2024-11-22T18:33:50 < bitmask> over the m2
2024-11-22T18:33:57 < bitmask> i see
2024-11-22T18:34:59 < machinehum> With the apple stuff there's a few people reverse engineering things
2024-11-22T18:35:19 < machinehum> Qualcom is actually considering server grade arm shit, which is ofc linux
2024-11-22T18:47:28 < karlp> fecking python 0 is false. I'm used to lua where false and nil are false, but 0 is truthy, because it's real.
2024-11-22T18:48:04 < zyp> not python's fault lua is weird
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2024-11-22T18:48:41 < karlp> not really, no.
2024-11-22T18:48:51 < karlp> it's the "if val" vs "if val is not None"
2024-11-22T18:49:01 < karlp> I'm used to the former, python really wants you to use the latter.
2024-11-22T18:49:20 < zyp> depends what you're testing for, but yeah
2024-11-22T18:52:06 < zyp> also, fwiw in python bool is a subclass of int, True and False are respectively aliases for 1 and 0
2024-11-22T18:52:30 < zyp> >>> issubclass(bool, int)
2024-11-22T18:52:30 < zyp> True
2024-11-22T18:52:30 < zyp> >>> isinstance(True, int)
2024-11-22T18:52:30 < zyp> True
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2024-11-22T19:51:09 < machinehum> Does anyone here use buildroot?
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2024-11-22T19:55:09 < jbo-> nah, I went yocto
2024-11-22T20:00:13 < machinehum> jbo-: that shit is cancer
2024-11-22T20:07:19 < qyx> machinehum: I did
2024-11-22T20:07:20 -!- System_Error [~SystemErr@user/systemerror] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2024-11-22T20:07:23 < qyx> a few times
2024-11-22T20:07:35 < qyx> it is a use&forget thig
2024-11-22T20:07:43 < qyx> you have to leqrn it every time
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2024-11-22T20:12:35 < machinehum> Why?
2024-11-22T20:12:52 < machinehum> It's perfect, just a simple thing for building linux images
2024-11-22T20:14:13 < machinehum> I guess if whatever you use isn't mainlined, buildroot will likely be a mess and you need to use yuckto with vendor layers 
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2024-11-22T20:46:43 < Steffanx> You guys seem on edge today (especially those currently in swisserland). What's up?
2024-11-22T20:48:19 < jpa-> jbo found out that he's not getting a present from me and he got angry
2024-11-22T20:48:31 < jbo-> you want to know how angry?
2024-11-22T20:48:34 < jbo-> _this_ angry:
2024-11-22T20:48:35 -!- jbo- is now known as jbo
2024-11-22T20:48:40 < jbo> there.
2024-11-22T20:49:50 < Steffanx> jpa- why did jbo even think he deserves a present?
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2024-11-22T21:09:12 < fenugrec> how is the weather in .ch
2024-11-22T21:09:19 < machinehum> snow
2024-11-22T21:10:07 < machinehum> jbo: snow in visp? me thinks yes
2024-11-22T21:11:20 < fenugrec> lucky. +4, rain, 33kt winds here
2024-11-22T21:11:54 < machinehum> fenugrec: Where are you?
2024-11-22T21:11:59 < fenugrec> .ca
2024-11-22T21:12:07 < machinehum> Where?
2024-11-22T21:12:12 < fenugrec> .qc.ca
2024-11-22T21:13:00 < machinehum> Quebec?
2024-11-22T21:13:10 < machinehum> nice
2024-11-22T21:13:32 < jbo> je parlais francais aussi
2024-11-22T21:14:36 < fenugrec> but the real test, est-ce que tu dis septante, nonante etc
2024-11-22T21:14:51 < jbo> septante, nonante, oui
2024-11-22T21:14:54 < fenugrec> so quaint
2024-11-22T21:15:05 < machinehum> fenugrec: Who you gonna vote for ?
2024-11-22T21:15:28 < fenugrec> i'm voting englishman 
2024-11-22T21:15:30 < jbo> fenugrec, it's always fun when you try to exchange a phone number with a guy from France...
2024-11-22T21:15:38 < machinehum> Same
2024-11-22T21:15:55 < jbo> at least they know how to metric, I guess
2024-11-22T21:16:01 < fenugrec> heh
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2024-11-22T21:18:37 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas francais!
2024-11-22T21:19:58 < Steffanx> Also dont talk about the weather in the place you mentioned, machinehum. i was just over it...
2024-11-22T21:20:43 < qyx> machinehum: I am using openwrt because it offers much more for the same amount of work
2024-11-22T21:21:35 < qyx> porting-wise it is the same, openwrt is well maintained, has a package manager, etc
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2024-11-22T21:25:36 < Steffanx> Such rage quit
2024-11-22T21:26:50 < qyx> did I write anything bad?
2024-11-22T21:28:50 < jbo> how dare you speak such words
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--- Day changed la marras 23 2024
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2024-11-23T03:24:26 < qyx> ST removed reference manuals from google/other search results?
2024-11-23T03:24:51 < qyx> I have to click their useless page, wait until all the awesome shit loads and then download the RM?
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2024-11-23T05:58:12 < fenugrec> qyx hm well RM0091 at least still has a findable direct link , https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/rm0091-stm32f0x1stm32f0x2stm32f0x8-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
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2024-11-23T09:20:54 < jpa-> qyx: probably they just changed the urls again
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2024-11-23T11:52:45 < qyx> idk rm0440 doesn't, only on RS online
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2024-11-23T12:38:20 < jpa-> maybe google hasn't found it yet
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2024-11-23T14:00:20 < qyx> I can't even download it, my LTE is limited to 1 mbit/s now
2024-11-23T14:00:46 < qyx> apparently they don't like 150 GB transferred this month
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2024-11-23T14:49:45 < specing> hah
2024-11-23T14:49:49 < Steffanx> Why don't you keep copies of all docs?
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2024-11-23T17:11:35 < fenugrec> TIL some DDR4 mem has a curve milled on the edge to reduce peak insertion force
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2024-11-24T04:06:20 < qyx> I am a bit sad that mcufont encoder is c++
2024-11-24T04:06:58 < qyx> it is probably gonna be a showstopper :s
2024-11-24T04:08:59 < zyp> what?
2024-11-24T04:24:17 < qyx> I don't like a host c++ compiler dependency to build a project
2024-11-24T04:24:27 < qyx> I don't even have a host c++
2024-11-24T04:25:03 < zyp> why not?
2024-11-24T04:32:53 < qyx> for the start I hate c++, it pulls another half a gig of shit from the interweb, it pollutes your cache on your automated build machine, it simply doesn't have a sense to use a compiled tool for this purpose
2024-11-24T04:33:26 < qyx> if the tool was a standard one and packaged, ok
2024-11-24T04:33:53 < zyp> oh, right, you don't have *any* host compiler
2024-11-24T04:34:09 < zyp> so not about c++ in particular
2024-11-24T04:34:30 < zyp> in that case I can agree, it would have been python if I made it
2024-11-24T04:35:12 < qyx> same here
2024-11-24T04:49:33 < qyx> oh is it tectus project
2024-11-24T04:50:18 < zyp> mcufont? it's jpa-'s project
2024-11-24T04:52:11 < qyx> sorry, he did the last commit
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2024-11-24T09:32:13 < jpa-> qyx: i coded it so slow that it would take years to build if it used python
2024-11-24T09:32:29 < jpa-> qyx: but you don't need to really rebuild the font files all the time, just build them once and commit into repo
2024-11-24T09:32:37 < jpa-> the encoder isn't even deterministic! :)
2024-11-24T09:39:22 < jpa-> qyx: https://github.com/takkaO/OpenFontRender  could be a reasonable alternative, though it doesn't try to do silly compression tricks
2024-11-24T09:39:50 < jpa-> probably needs more ram also
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2024-11-24T10:34:26 < qyx> I have one too but it is basically a shell script running imagemagick to draw a character and then do sed/grep on the *.pnm result to convert to c
2024-11-24T10:43:16 < jpa-> yeah, those usually work ok until you want kerning
2024-11-24T10:48:30 < qyx> I wonder if there are any legal restrictions for using the nokia 3310 font
2024-11-24T10:49:19 < qyx> I have found it by chance, it was created by literally eyeballing the nokia
2024-11-24T10:56:57 < jpa-> probably a derivative work
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2024-11-24T11:04:40 < qyx> when you paint an exactly same mona lisa, is it a derivative work?
2024-11-24T11:33:53 < jpa-> yes?
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2024-11-24T11:37:18 < Steffanx> I would call it a waste of time and skills 
2024-11-24T11:49:00 < antto> did someone say nokia 3310
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2024-11-24T12:28:03 < Steffanx> How's your clock by the way, antto ?
2024-11-24T12:30:27 < qyx> mine is 11:30
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2024-11-24T12:36:07 < qyx> https://webdraft.hu/fonts/nokja-original/
2024-11-24T13:21:37 < antto> Steffanx, what clock?
2024-11-24T13:28:25 < Steffanx> Antto: Alarm clock or whatever it was
2024-11-24T13:28:41 < antto> gathering dust again
2024-11-24T13:29:26 < antto> if anything, i should try to finish my H723_audio project
2024-11-24T13:34:03 < antto> i don't even remember how i left the clock, this is the last pic of it: https://i.imgur.com/HV9mUJN.png
2024-11-24T13:37:10 < antto> i also have a 2nd revision of a daplink (fixed some mistakes from the first one) which was fabbed but gathers dust too https://i.imgur.com/xuB1MsB.jpg
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2024-11-24T16:44:38 < englishman> for a sec i thought oe7sc was your ham callsign
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2024-11-24T17:07:27 < antto> my what
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2024-11-24T22:56:42 < nomorekaki> how is innovate?
2024-11-24T22:57:00 < qyx> doing some lcd stuff
2024-11-24T22:57:33 < nomorekaki> coding libs or apps?
2024-11-24T22:58:47 < qyx> coding b/w display driver
2024-11-24T22:58:58 < qyx> and some basic font so I can get a text console running
2024-11-24T22:59:23 < nomorekaki> where is the hardware?
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2024-11-24T23:47:59 < qyx> jpa-: ok you are right, my 10 line library looks really bad
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2024-11-25T01:10:54 < qyx> did the nokia thing https://bin.jvnv.net/file/eOWJ0
2024-11-25T01:11:26 < qyx> I can't even copy the text properly
2024-11-25T01:13:55 < nomorekaki> I think the idea of that font was to get readable text upper and lowercase with minimum amount of pixels
2024-11-25T01:14:41 < nomorekaki> you have car radiator fan there?
2024-11-25T01:17:35 < qyx> no, just a normal heating fan
2024-11-25T01:18:11 < qyx> yeah that's my goal too, I need one or two fonts, readable without antialiasing
2024-11-25T01:18:32 < qyx> to implement a simple scrollable text console
2024-11-25T01:19:50 < qyx> I could probably even parse ANSI escape sequences and switch normal and bold font
2024-11-25T01:20:07 < qyx> I could do "colors" too that way, it has 4 gray scales
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2024-11-25T01:54:31 < nomorekaki> for the amount of pixels it requires it has no right to look so delicious
2024-11-25T02:33:35 < qyx> enough parsing today https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3k75V
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2024-11-25T07:31:19 < fenugrec> did someone say bitfonts... https://github.com/robhagemans/hoard-of-bitfonts
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2024-11-25T08:28:39 < jpa-> qyx: it's not that bad, i've seen worse even on PC
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2024-11-25T09:48:11 < qyx> fenugrec: oh thanks
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2024-11-25T17:27:05 < nomorekaki> oopsii
2024-11-25T17:27:22 < nomorekaki> always calculate total cost of a product with every single detail
2024-11-25T17:31:18 < nomorekaki> well let's call this promotional product then
2024-11-25T17:33:15 < nomorekaki> portfolio filler
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2024-11-25T19:28:39 < ventYl> will you be selling something "for free"?
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2024-11-26T22:20:19 < fenugrec> I'm looking for a mid-mount USB connector like this https://filebin.net/c71bqaj0ur03z89r/compar.jpg (USB3, type A, pcb mid-mount). The one on the right is almost a good match but the mounting tabs are different
2024-11-26T22:23:13 < fenugrec> the original mfg "ALLTOP" doesn't do these anymore. "1628" looks like a datecode and not a product #
2024-11-26T22:31:27 < fenugrec> orig part was maybe "C-K_26214A-8K3A-02" but C-K doesn't make USB connectors, and I can't find anything with those numbers
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2024-11-26T23:45:40 < ventYl> zyp: that implementation of async is indeed elegant
2024-11-26T23:51:59 < zyp> which are we talking about now? I've been talking async with multiple people on multiple topics recently, so it's kinda hard to keep track
2024-11-26T23:55:04 < ventYl> laks/async/async.h
2024-11-26T23:55:22 < zyp> ah, yeah
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2024-11-27T02:34:13 < fenugrec> yay me, finally managed to get UEFI netboot to work. Tried multiple times over the years and never got it to work
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2024-11-27T03:25:02 < qyx> is gif still a thing?
2024-11-27T03:25:10 < qyx> I want to compress 1bpp pictures
2024-11-27T03:27:57 < qyx> https://github.com/fweiss/mcu-gif this is a great example of an academic approach to coding
2024-11-27T03:33:58 < nomorekaki> looks clean
2024-11-27T03:36:49 < qyx> hlooks complicated considering gif decoding can be done on 500 lines
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2024-11-27T04:15:25 < fenugrec> qyx sometimes gif compresses better than png. I forget how, but in certain circumstances gif can be lossless
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2024-11-27T08:07:40 < antto> gif _is_ lossless, i mean, it's 8bit per pixel but it's not like jpeg
2024-11-27T08:26:52 < jpa-> qyx: gif as a format is actually pretty complex, even though the commonly used subset is simple
2024-11-27T08:30:00 < jpa-> qyx: but i wonder where you see complication in that library? isn't it just 360 lines and then a fancy ccspec test suite?
2024-11-27T08:33:09 < jpa-> 1bpp compression depends a lot on the image size; if they are large, png and gif work fine; if they are small (like 20x30 characters or similar), the overhead gets too large
2024-11-27T09:17:15 < qyx> jpa-: I started reading along the lines of readme which talks almost entireli about the boring ccspec and "how to compile" stuff
2024-11-27T09:17:23 < qyx> useless, I need one file
2024-11-27T09:17:54 < qyx> and in readme "the relevant source is in gif.c" and then "advanced tinkering"
2024-11-27T09:19:26 < qyx> also
2024-11-27T09:19:27 < qyx>     const size_t stringsCapacity = 512 * 1000;
2024-11-27T09:19:27 < qyx>     static gd_index_t strings[stringsCapacity];
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2024-11-27T09:24:14 < qyx> interesting concept too https://support.touchgfx.com/docs/api/classes/classtouchgfx_1_1_l_c_d1bpp#function-blitcopyrle
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2024-11-27T10:47:30 < jpa-> heh, yeah, that part smells pretty bad :D
2024-11-27T10:47:39 < jpa-> (the stringsCapacity)
2024-11-27T11:12:42 < qyx> if conf["LIB_TINYCBOR"] == "y":
2024-11-27T11:12:47 < qyx> 	env.Git('https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb', branch='0.4.5')
2024-11-27T11:12:56 < qyx> it took me a while to catch this
2024-11-27T11:39:08 < qyx> so my freertos is asserting in uxCriticalNesting
2024-11-27T11:39:22 < qyx> and I am not really sure what could be the reason
2024-11-27T11:39:46 < qyx> I am running freertos from a bootloader (just jumped out), entered main and then it fails on first task creation
2024-11-27T11:50:44 < qyx> uh my uxCriticalNesting is 4294967295 when entering main
2024-11-27T11:51:26 < qyx> then it enters vPortEnterCritical increasing it to 0
2024-11-27T11:52:00 < qyx> and then vPortExitCritical trying to decrease it if nonzero, assert otherwise, which obviously asserts
2024-11-27T11:52:13 < qyx> the question is why the variable is not properly initialized
2024-11-27T12:18:44 < qyx> I am probably not doing enough before jumping to the application
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2024-11-27T13:05:36 < qyx> I guess I am no longer fighting the wind and just make a flag to jump to the app right after the reset
2024-11-27T13:28:23 < jpa-> yeah
2024-11-27T13:28:26 < jpa-> tried and true
2024-11-27T13:38:37 < qyx> but I am authenticating the app firmware in the bootloader, so I need to be cautious
2024-11-27T13:38:46 < qyx> where did you store the flag?
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2024-11-27T13:56:31 < qyx> oh .noinit
2024-11-27T14:02:55 < jpa-> .noinit if you can't avoid libcrt0 running before your reset handler
2024-11-27T14:03:06 < jpa-> but if you can do it from reset vector directly, any RAM location will work
2024-11-27T14:16:22 < qyx> the thing does exactly the same
2024-11-27T14:17:04 < jpa-> such thing much problem
2024-11-27T14:24:52 < qyx> I really don't know what is happening
2024-11-27T14:25:22 < jpa-> do you forget to set stack pointer?
2024-11-27T14:25:31 < jpa-> or VTOR
2024-11-27T14:28:31 < qyx> (gdb) p/x SCB_VTOR
2024-11-27T14:28:31 < qyx> $2 = 0x8010100
2024-11-27T14:28:35 < qyx> (gdb) p/x *SCB_VTOR
2024-11-27T14:28:36 < qyx> $4 = 0x20014000
2024-11-27T14:28:55 < qyx> msp is 0x20013f38
2024-11-27T14:29:28 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/LD3Dy
2024-11-27T14:29:52 < qyx> vPortExitCritical () at microkernel/freertos/src/portable/GCC/ARM_CM4F/port.c:422
2024-11-27T14:29:55 < qyx> 422             configASSERT( uxCriticalNesting );
2024-11-27T14:30:12 < qyx> it is indeed 0
2024-11-27T14:30:19 < jpa-> can you pastebin the jump to main?
2024-11-27T14:31:27 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/df22z
2024-11-27T14:32:19 < qyx> boot_flags is just a section .noinit
2024-11-27T14:32:37 < qyx> the "contructor" code is run before bootloader main as intended
2024-11-27T14:34:27 < jpa-> so the issue is that uxCriticalNesting should get initialized to 0xAAAAAAAA but is 0xFFFFFFFF instead?
2024-11-27T14:34:45 < jpa-> maybe your entry_point is not actually pointing to where it should
2024-11-27T14:35:35 < jpa-> i would take the reset & stack values from the main program vector table instead of some weirdo boot_flags
2024-11-27T14:36:02 < qyx> I can't because I don't know them
2024-11-27T14:36:12 < jpa-> huh?
2024-11-27T14:36:19 < qyx> I need to parse them from a XIP ELF
2024-11-27T14:36:24 < qyx> for that I need to run the chanloader service
2024-11-27T14:36:30 < qyx> and for that I need to run freertos
2024-11-27T14:37:19 < qyx> so I am doing all that and when I find those values and check ELF signature, I copy those values to boot_flags, set the key and reset using SCB_AIRCR
2024-11-27T14:37:38 < jpa-> but you have the vector table address already? can't you just read ((uint32_t *)boot_flags.vtor)[1]
2024-11-27T14:38:12 < qyx> yes I can but it is the same
2024-11-27T14:38:23 < qyx> I can even see it in the log
2024-11-27T14:38:27 < jpa-> ok
2024-11-27T14:38:27 < qyx> and on the LCD
2024-11-27T14:38:32 < jpa-> so does crt0 run?
2024-11-27T14:38:50 < jpa-> maybe it just gets wrong address for where to load .data from
2024-11-27T14:39:06 < qyx> hm, let's check
2024-11-27T14:42:29 < qyx> reset handler tries to load 0x080232fc to 0x20000800
2024-11-27T14:42:50 < qyx> the destination is ok, I have a 0x800 buffer excluded from the sram in the linker script
2024-11-27T14:43:04 < jpa-> you could set watchpoint on uxCriticalNesting and then see where it gets that 0xFFFFFFFF from
2024-11-27T14:43:18 < jpa-> and compare it with the .data flash address
2024-11-27T14:43:55 < jpa-> but yeah, that 0x080232fc is probably the start of where it starts to load .data from
2024-11-27T14:43:58 < qyx>   LOAD           0x013300 0x20000800 0x080232fc 0x00484 0x00948 RW  0x100
2024-11-27T14:44:23 < jpa-> what does 0x080232fc + (&uxCriticalNesting - 0x20000800) contain?
2024-11-27T14:45:27 < qyx> (gdb) p *(0x080232fc + 8)
2024-11-27T14:45:27 < qyx> $2 = -1
2024-11-27T14:45:29 < qyx> :>
2024-11-27T14:45:49 < jpa-> funny.. and your copy of freertos source has the 0xaaaaaaaa?
2024-11-27T14:45:51 < qyx> so it should be easy to find that 0xaaaaaaaa
2024-11-27T14:46:27 < qyx> 00013300  48 11 00 20 ff ff ff ff  aa aa aa aa 98 2f 8a 42  |H.. ........./.B|
2024-11-27T14:47:00 < qyx> wait what
2024-11-27T14:48:38 < qyx> it is actually at 0x0823300+8
2024-11-27T14:49:09 < qyx> sorry 0x0802330+8 instead of 0x080232fc+8
2024-11-27T14:49:45 < qyx> so it is 4 bytes off
2024-11-27T15:06:49 < qyx> but I have been dealing with this alignment issue in the past
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2024-11-27T15:35:13 < karlp> https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/st-tips-hua-hong-deal-to-support-china-for-china-strategy/
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2024-11-27T16:29:19 < fenugrec> antto thanks, I was under the wrong impression re gif. 
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2024-11-27T19:12:09 < qyx> jpa-: I think it always worked just by a mere chance, there is no reasonable way to preserve alignment between elf offsets, lma and vma
2024-11-27T19:12:18 < qyx> it always breaks in one or another way
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2024-11-27T22:05:11 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Es0Uq/Screenshot_2024-11-27_21-01-04.png
2024-11-27T22:05:14 < qyx> here lies the problem
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--- Day changed to marras 28 2024
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2024-11-28T02:12:56 < zyp> does the section headers look good? if so, have you tried to use the PHDRS command in the linker script to fix the segment headers?
2024-11-28T02:12:59 < zyp> https://sourceware.org/binutils/docs/ld/PHDRS.html
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2024-11-28T02:56:24 < qyx> zyp: tried ALIGN_WITH_INPUT, doesn't work
2024-11-28T02:56:33 < qyx> ALIGN(0x100) works
2024-11-28T02:56:44 < qyx> (everything is aligned at 0x100)
2024-11-28T02:57:31 < qyx> but it has to be specified as .data : ALIGN(0x100) {...
2024-11-28T02:58:10 < qyx> I am not a linker pro but everything else failed, even my AI friend had limited knowledge about possible solutions
2024-11-28T02:58:21 < qyx> although he suggested ALIGN_WITH_INPUT too
2024-11-28T02:59:06 < qyx> anyway, works now
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2024-11-28T18:42:46 < karlp> fecking,  jsut found another failure from assumed upcasting from int32*int32 => int64 not happening.
2024-11-28T18:42:48 < karlp> I hat ethis shit
2024-11-28T19:05:55 < qyx> it would not happen in rust I bet
2024-11-28T19:08:01 < specing> problem wouldn't happen in Ada
2024-11-28T19:09:01 < englishman> hehe
2024-11-28T19:09:16 < englishman> wouldnt happen in javascript
2024-11-28T19:11:01 < zyp> qyx, indeed, I just had rust give me an overflow error earlier
2024-11-28T19:13:11 < zyp> I'm experimenting with writing a python module in rust
2024-11-28T19:13:16 < zyp> pyo3_runtime.PanicException: attempt to add with overflow
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2024-11-28T19:24:14 < specing> zyp: rewriting or implementing something new from scratch?
2024-11-28T19:25:18 < specing> Yeah, Ada gives runtime overflow exceptions as well
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2024-11-28T19:25:23 < zyp> depends how you look at it
2024-11-28T19:25:59 < specing> when I was writing Ada for stm32 the IDE highlighted all the lines where runtime exceptions could happen, so I could fix the code in a way that avoids them
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2024-11-28T19:30:14 < zyp> I'm currently mostly playing around, attempting to make some orbuculum infrastructure components
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2024-11-28T19:31:14 < zyp> idea is to have python bindings so I can do all the plumbing in python, but have the datapath in a faster language
2024-11-28T19:33:18 < specing> numpy
2024-11-28T19:34:02 < zyp> I was looking at doing it in C++ last week, but I couldn't find any async libraries that actually had all the features I wanted
2024-11-28T19:34:22 < zyp> and I saw there existed some for rust, so I figured I'd give it a chance
2024-11-28T19:38:58 < specing> and golang?
2024-11-28T19:39:07 < specing> wasn't that designed for parallelism?
2024-11-28T19:39:22 < zyp> idk, seems less useful to learn
2024-11-28T19:40:27 < specing> really? 
2024-11-28T19:41:34 < zyp> rust has been a «eh, seems neat but I don't want to spend the time and effort getting into it without a particular purpose» for a while, now I guess I've found a purpose that justifies it
2024-11-28T19:44:18 < qyx> I don't think I need to learn another language given the fact I don't know any of them sayisfactorily
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2024-11-28T20:06:18 < fenugrec> word on the street was, to use rust for embedded you often need to bypass its safety features to do anything useful
2024-11-28T20:07:27 < fenugrec> and with ada, don't you end up having to bind to C librairies anyway 
2024-11-28T20:08:28 < zyp> ah, I'm glancing at go a bit now, looks like they've taking coroutines to the point of making *everything* execute as coroutines (i.e. not going on a traditional stack)
2024-11-28T20:08:50 < specing> fenugrec: I didn't have to bind to C
2024-11-28T20:09:05 < zyp> effectively making go a language with very cheap multithreading
2024-11-28T20:09:33 < fenugrec> I meant, not C stdlib, but "to external C librairies that provide useful stuff not in ada'
2024-11-28T20:10:28 < zyp> fenugrec, I'm not looking at using rust for embedded yet though
2024-11-28T20:11:14 < specing> fenugrec: Maybe.. but I wrote my own drivers
2024-11-28T20:11:25 < specing> fenugrec: there's ada-drivers-library, though I did not use it
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2024-11-28T21:29:34 < jpa-> i doubt you really need to unsafe rust that much for embedded
2024-11-28T21:29:49 < jpa-> probably in limited places
2024-11-28T21:32:03 < zyp> I would expect much of that to already be hidden in existing libraries
2024-11-28T21:32:21 < zyp> unless you want to write everything from scratch
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2024-11-28T22:47:28 < BrainDamage> or you could write unsafe-only rust to prove a point
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2024-11-28T22:50:42 < nomorekaki> no thanks
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2024-11-28T22:52:06 < fenugrec> I'll leave that to the CS neckbeards
2024-11-28T22:54:02 < ventYl> BrainDamage: you won't go far with that as borrow checker is active even inside unsafe code
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2024-11-28T23:44:42 < nomorekaki> how is innovate today?
2024-11-28T23:45:52 < qyx> running nose innovation today
2024-11-28T23:50:34 < nomorekaki> body gave up
2024-11-28T23:51:11 < nomorekaki> all the energy that should have gone to T-cell production went to innovate
2024-11-28T23:53:19 < Steffanx> So how is innovate today nomorekaki ?
2024-11-28T23:54:28 < nomorekaki> got couple neat ideas for code still to be implemented
2024-11-28T23:55:10 < nomorekaki> heck thanks for reminding I have one bill due today
2024-11-28T23:57:44 < nomorekaki> bill paid
--- Day changed pe marras 29 2024
2024-11-29T00:03:31 < nomorekaki> so I had this neat test io that poops termination causes and other data out and I figured lets also blink led after reset to indicate non-typical causes with pulse count so that it can be diagnosed on the spot
2024-11-29T00:04:47 < nomorekaki> when there is only operation typical causes in reset cycling the led assumes it's normal operation
2024-11-29T00:09:11 < nomorekaki> if you dont ever see it then you don't need to know about it
2024-11-29T00:09:36 < nomorekaki> and knowing as little as possible is the goal
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2024-11-29T11:52:14 < DemolitionMan> hi
2024-11-29T11:52:35 < DemolitionMan> please help, is there anyine using arm-none-eabi toolchain on freebsd?
2024-11-29T11:55:02 < DemolitionMan> the arm-none-eabi produces a not working elf, compiling on linux the elf is working
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2024-11-29T13:12:57 < qyx> a non working elf?
2024-11-29T13:13:01 < qyx> how do you run it?
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2024-11-29T13:14:24 < qyx> oh
2024-11-29T13:24:33 < DemolitionMan> openocd
2024-11-29T13:24:46 < DemolitionMan> via gdb
2024-11-29T13:25:13 < karlp> the phrase "deader than bsd" comes to mind :)
2024-11-29T13:25:24 < DemolitionMan> anyway
2024-11-29T13:25:40 < DemolitionMan> same code compiled under Debian works ok
2024-11-29T13:25:57 < karlp> gues syou want to be talking to some bsd support people, not stm32 support people?
2024-11-29T13:26:09 < karlp> I mean, we've got some fucking weirdos here, but...
2024-11-29T13:26:15 < karlp> not many bsders
2024-11-29T13:26:55 < DemolitionMan> I think should be a problem with the toolchain
2024-11-29T13:27:31 < karlp> right, and where did you get that?
2024-11-29T13:27:47 < DemolitionMan> __libc_init_array()
2024-11-29T13:30:46 < DemolitionMan> https://pastebin.com/GtRs3sMd
2024-11-29T13:31:27 < karlp> you said it doens't work, I don't need to look at your assembly
2024-11-29T13:31:35 < karlp> where did you get this broken toolchain? hav eyou tried speaking to them?
2024-11-29T13:31:55 < DemolitionMan> freebsd official repository
2024-11-29T13:32:11 < karlp> and the same code base compiles and runs on linux?
2024-11-29T13:32:40 < DemolitionMan> yes
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2024-11-29T13:33:02 < karlp> so, at the risk of sounding redundant, what exactly are you hoping to get here?
2024-11-29T13:33:22 < DemolitionMan> if someone has same issue 
2024-11-29T13:33:26 < DemolitionMan> on freebsd
2024-11-29T13:33:33 < karlp> we'd have to use freebsd first :)
2024-11-29T13:33:42 < karlp> is this you rown code or known good code?
2024-11-29T13:33:59 < karlp> it's _feasible_ that you're doing something illegal and there's  just different optimizations happening.
2024-11-29T13:34:59 < DemolitionMan> yes
2024-11-29T13:34:59 < DemolitionMan> it could
2024-11-29T13:36:12 < DemolitionMan> the same problem comes up when I link on linux without -lgcc
2024-11-29T13:37:02 < karlp> you are linking the same way on bsd?
2024-11-29T13:37:31 < DemolitionMan> no, because freebsd complains for duplicated symbol
2024-11-29T13:38:23 < ventYl> and where the duplicate comes from?
2024-11-29T13:38:24 < karlp> ok, so you ignored a warning, dropped a link library that you need, and complained that it broke?
2024-11-29T13:38:42 < ventYl> couldn't it be that you accidentally link two implementations of libgcc?
2024-11-29T13:38:42 < karlp> hooray! you get to keep all the pieces? :)
2024-11-29T13:38:44 < DemolitionMan> linux -> LIBRARIES=gcc c_nano    m nosys stdc++
2024-11-29T13:39:38 < DemolitionMan> freebsd -> LIBRARIES=gcc c m nosys stdc++
2024-11-29T13:40:32 < DemolitionMan> karlp: I do not ignore any warning
2024-11-29T13:44:26 < qyx> DemolitionMan: the only one here using freebsd is jbo 
2024-11-29T13:44:44 < DemolitionMan> good
2024-11-29T13:44:49 < DemolitionMan> thanks
2024-11-29T13:44:53 < qyx> I was forced to use freebsd 3.6 in 2007 and I have developed PTSD
2024-11-29T13:45:03 < DemolitionMan> lol
2024-11-29T13:45:17 < DemolitionMan> OpenBSD is better
2024-11-29T13:45:56 < qyx> the only thing I know about openbsd is that iy exists :p
2024-11-29T13:46:10 < DemolitionMan> :)
2024-11-29T13:46:25 < qyx> but really, you can ask him
2024-11-29T13:46:33 < DemolitionMan> yes, thanks
2024-11-29T13:46:42 < DemolitionMan> I will
2024-11-29T13:46:45 < qyx> he will most probably know what and how to use
2024-11-29T14:27:49 < DemolitionMan> solved!
2024-11-29T14:28:22 < DemolitionMan> wrong linking switches
2024-11-29T14:28:28 < DemolitionMan> should be
2024-11-29T14:29:00 < DemolitionMan> freebsd -> LIBRARIES=gcc c_nano stdc++_nano nosys
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2024-11-29T15:41:59 < DemolitionMan> hi
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2024-11-29T15:51:44 < Steffanx> Lo
2024-11-29T16:03:10 < zyp> sup
2024-11-29T16:41:44 < DemolitionMan> re
2024-11-29T16:41:52 < DemolitionMan> (rising edge)
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2024-11-29T22:48:54 < karlp> fun.  copying big files from qnap over smb to a local usb3 disk.: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IpYQC.png
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2024-11-29T22:49:05 < karlp> wasnt really expecting it to be chunk at a time like that...
2024-11-29T23:01:29 < ventYl> sum tin wong
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--- Day changed la marras 30 2024
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2024-11-30T02:11:43 < qyx> so I am signing ELFs wih the following method: I create a new empty section and init it witz zeroes, compute the signature over the whole ELF including the new section, replace the section data with the signature, done
2024-11-30T02:12:18 < qyx> but I encountered a downside of this approach - I can't attach multiple signatures this way
2024-11-30T02:13:53 < qyx> and that makes me a sad panda
2024-11-30T02:37:31 < aandrew> qyx: you could... ignore the section when signing, no?
2024-11-30T02:42:25 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2024-11-30T02:44:45 < qyx> not really because there is associated metadata in the header/s itself
2024-11-30T02:46:10 < qyx> so there is no reasonable way of allowing appending signatures from multiple authorities other than making a wholy independeny appendix to the file at the end, rendering it invalid (elf)
2024-11-30T02:47:14 < qyx> but it shohld be at least possible to add them all at once, I can't see an use case for that though
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2024-11-30T03:10:48 < aandrew> yeah, or have one section for a concatencaton of all signatures; then the section is fixed which means the header is fixed and you can add them as you see feit
2024-11-30T03:10:54 < aandrew> fit
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2024-11-30T10:08:44 < qyx> oh yes that's doable too
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--- Log closed la marras 30 21:18:35 2024
--- Log opened la marras 30 22:00:34 2024
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