--- Log opened Sat Mar 01 00:00:14 2025
2025-03-01T00:05:03 < Steffanx> Why not
2025-03-01T00:05:32 < jbo> how chinesey can you make a PSU.
2025-03-01T00:05:40 < qyx> I have one peaking so sharply it makes PoDL no worky
2025-03-01T00:06:07 < qyx> diff mode noise of about 2 Vpp, common mode all over the place, tens of V
2025-03-01T00:06:15 < jbo> holy f
2025-03-01T00:06:19 < jbo> PoDL?
2025-03-01T00:06:27 < qyx> power over data lines on ethernet
2025-03-01T00:06:36 < jbo> is that different from PoE?
2025-03-01T00:06:53 < jbo> ah, PoE uses unused ethernet lines, right?
2025-03-01T00:06:56 < qyx> just a marketing subset of PoE
2025-03-01T00:07:05 < qyx> PoE can use both
2025-03-01T00:07:44 < qyx> but it is true that PoDL carries power differentially on a single pair
2025-03-01T00:08:06 < qyx> whereas PoE shifts common mode of two pairs at least
2025-03-01T00:08:27 < jbo> fancy
2025-03-01T00:08:43 < qyx> I don't know of any PoE mode doing what PoDL does but I may be wrog as usual
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2025-03-01T01:27:02 < upgrdman> https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1izmzi8/new_study_shows_amazon_river_dolphins_peeing_in/
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2025-03-01T11:09:14 < Steffanx> Thanks Laurencedman
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2025-03-01T22:52:29 < fenugrec> Are 'eurostyle' pluggable term blocks generally interchangeable ? i.e. I have some plugs like https://www.futureelectronics.com/p/interconnect--terminal-blocks--euro-style/25-320-4053-1-wieland-electric-9030669 but finding more is complicated. 
2025-03-01T22:53:36 < zyp> your link doesn't work
2025-03-01T22:54:58 < fenugrec> huh. Ok, and wieland's website is horrendous, maybe https://www.datasheets.com/part-details/25-320-4053-0-wieland-electric-gmbh-31345384
2025-03-01T22:55:05 < fenugrec> or https://eshop.wieland-electric.com/products/de/leiterplatten-buchsenleiste-8113-b---8/25.320.0853.0 
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2025-03-01T23:01:04 < jpa-> fenugrec: usually they are, but there is at least a few styles   e.g.  https://www.amazon.com/MULTICOMP-Pluggable-Eurostyle-Positions-6pack/dp/B092CD8GQT   https://www.lmicorp.com/e/items.asp?itemcode=1294
2025-03-01T23:14:46 < fenugrec> jpa- thanks. Yeah mine looks more like your LMI link but with a dovetail groove vs that rectangular one
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 02 2025
2025-03-02T00:13:58 < qyx> RuntimeError: PyPI no longer supports 'pip search' (or XML-RPC search). Please use https://pypi.org/search (via a browser) instead.
2025-03-02T00:14:01 < qyx> the when
2025-03-02T00:16:03 < qyx> no gaphor for me
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2025-03-02T00:20:11 < zyp> that happened years ago
2025-03-02T00:21:17 < zyp> fenugrec, usually the groove is dovetail while the tab is rectangular
2025-03-02T00:22:44 < zyp> kefa seems to be a decent chinese supplier of stuff like that: https://www.kefaelectronic.com/Pluggable-Terminal-Block-pl3020573.html
2025-03-02T00:23:10 < zyp> most of what they do look like phoenix clones
2025-03-02T00:28:13 < fenugrec> zyp right, looks like a nearly de-facto standard I guess... found a few candidates, will order a few to test. thanks
2025-03-02T00:31:40 < qyx> the hell is flathub even
2025-03-02T00:31:46 < qyx> what are they trying to simulate
2025-03-02T00:32:01 < qyx> is the world going backwards again
2025-03-02T00:32:08 < qyx> sorry flatpak
2025-03-02T00:33:05 < qyx> why is installer asking about permissions, I surely run the app under an unprivileged user and maintain permissions myself
2025-03-02T00:39:43 < qyx> I feel like being on android
2025-03-02T00:40:18 < qyx> flatpak run org.gaphor.Gaphor
2025-03-02T00:41:11 < lemmi> flatpak containers everything away. access to files and such is handled via "portals". only what you access through dialogs is actually made available to the container. less chances of steam wiping your $HOME 
2025-03-02T00:42:29 < qyx> insane
2025-03-02T00:42:44 < qyx> I genuinely can't use that app
2025-03-02T00:42:56 < qyx> I don't know what to click
2025-03-02T00:44:24 < qyx> this really isn't for me https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Cle4E/Screenshot_2025-03-01_23-44-00.png
2025-03-02T00:45:06 < zyp> what about that?
2025-03-02T00:45:51 < zyp> looks like a standard warning about unsaved changes
2025-03-02T00:46:06 < zyp> «save and exit», «discard and exit», «cancel exit»
2025-03-02T00:46:17 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NH5KT/Screenshot_2025-03-01_23-45-58.png
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2025-03-02T00:46:42 < qyx> is this the ultimate state of art UI after more than 50 years of UI development?
2025-03-02T00:46:53 < qyx> I can't even move the window
2025-03-02T00:47:15 < qyx> and the most important preference in the app is dark mode?
2025-03-02T00:48:33 < zyp> some people seems to care a lot about that
2025-03-02T00:49:49 < qyx> uninstalling for the greater good
2025-03-02T00:49:55 < qyx> including the whole flatpak
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2025-03-02T00:59:38 < Steffanx> Your loss though :P
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2025-03-02T01:07:02 < qyx> so I just found out nobody makes usable precision opamps except texas and adi
2025-03-02T01:08:07 < qyx> which makes me an ITAR'd dutied sad panda
2025-03-02T01:10:01 < Steffanx> Partially because TI and ADI like to acquire other manufacturers every now and then
2025-03-02T01:10:12 < Steffanx> I guess 
2025-03-02T01:10:22 < jbo> hello
2025-03-02T01:10:27 < Steffanx> Hi
2025-03-02T01:13:00 < Steffanx> Qyx: You can always browse the "precision opamp" category on lcsc and find some lovely Chinese parts
2025-03-02T01:15:01 < fenugrec> zyp huh I just noticed, on the 'proper' wieland set, and a similar (weco 120) matched pair that I have in stock, the dovetail is actually useless, i.e. the plug is 'thinner' than necessary and the dovetail slides convex against convex (instead of convex into concave, if that makes sense). So yeah, pretty much everything vaguely similar should work
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2025-03-02T01:16:22 < qyx> huh ST has some, TSZ151, TSZ152
2025-03-02T01:16:27 < qyx> never seen anything like that
2025-03-02T01:17:54 < fenugrec> qyx  ncs325, mcp6v96
2025-03-02T01:18:34 < fenugrec> but yeah non-AZ, precision opamps are much less common
2025-03-02T01:19:09 < qyx> I know those amps exists, but both onsemi and microchip are trumpland too
2025-03-02T01:19:48 < fenugrec> ah yes
2025-03-02T01:20:15 < qyx> I am just quick checking if duties and export control of those would make me very sad or only partially sad
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2025-03-02T01:24:03 < jbo> I wonder if every order that is placed at aisler slows down our timeline
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2025-03-02T01:52:26 < mawk> qyx: :(
2025-03-02T01:52:30 < mawk> it's dick in arabic
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2025-03-02T07:55:50 < ds2> flatpak/docker/appimage are all stupid attempts to ship an entire file system because people too dumb to understand shlib versions 
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2025-03-02T13:16:46 < Steffanx> Not our time line jbo. Just theirs.
2025-03-02T13:17:28 < Steffanx> What they see as 2 days, is 2 weeks for you
2025-03-02T13:18:34 < jpa-> good, fast, cheap; with aisler, you can pick none!
2025-03-02T13:40:09 < qyx> I commited a sin again, ordered at jlcpcb thursday morning, it is on the way to me now
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2025-03-02T15:36:14 < machinehum> Glory to the CCP
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2025-03-02T16:53:40 < Steffanx> hmm, will you be alright qyx ?
2025-03-02T16:56:26 < jpa-> it's ok to order from china now, just avoid china's puppet state russia and russia's puppet state usa
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2025-03-02T17:14:29 < Steffanx> i heard this jpa guy is everywhere. Is he the evil mastermind after all?
2025-03-02T17:17:53 < zyp> yes
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2025-03-02T18:04:34 < qyx> not funny, according to the latest developments we are heading straight to the russia, together with hungarians
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2025-03-03T10:17:53 < qyx> hello pros
2025-03-03T10:18:05 < qyx> is bluetooth class1/1+ still a thing?
2025-03-03T10:24:13 < qyx> apparently yes but only with pcb antennas
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2025-03-03T11:20:47 < karlp> qyx: there's some nice chinese precision amps, depending on how precise you want.  cosine for one, there's some others I found: https://www.lcsc.com/brand-detail/12262.html
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2025-03-03T17:55:35 < jbo> Steffanx, I have a meeting in 5 minutes
2025-03-03T17:55:43 < jbo> just wanted to let you know
2025-03-03T18:12:43 < Steffanx> Will you be alright jbo?
2025-03-03T18:25:18 < jbo> yes :)
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2025-03-03T19:43:38 < Steffanx> ok
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2025-03-04T01:21:41 < qyx> zyp: did you use #ck?
2025-03-04T01:21:52 < qyx> on the hyperbus memory you used
2025-03-04T01:22:45 < zyp> no, just single ended
2025-03-04T01:22:58 < zyp> depends on the chip you use though
2025-03-04T01:23:14 < zyp> some are single ended only, some are balanced only, some are either
2025-03-04T01:25:53 < zyp> IIRC the first gen chips were single ended on the 3.3V variant, balanced on the 1.8V variant
2025-03-04T01:26:01 < zyp> and mine could do either
2025-03-04T01:26:21 < zyp> I recall I started doing it as balanced and said fuck it and decided routing single ended was easier
2025-03-04T01:27:12 < qyx> hm I want to use s26ks
2025-03-04T01:27:23 < qyx> it is single-ended on 3v0 and differential on 1v8
2025-03-04T01:27:51 < qyx> oh but stm32u5 has ck/#ck
2025-03-04T01:27:58 < qyx> not on all packages though
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2025-03-04T16:00:53 < bitmask> hello hello
2025-03-04T16:03:22 < bitmask> damnit, I just paid 10 bucks for this IRC client, someone better respond!
2025-03-04T16:03:30 < bitmask> :)
2025-03-04T16:05:47 < jpa-> are you masking?
2025-03-04T16:05:56 < bitmask> always
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2025-03-04T16:17:12 < Steffanx> Are you ok though?
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2025-03-04T16:27:25 < bitmask> who me?
2025-03-04T16:27:57 < mawk> did you buy mirc
2025-03-04T16:28:09 < bitmask> textual for mac
2025-03-04T16:28:23 < mawk> o
2025-03-04T16:32:10 < bitmask> damn, no starship launch today either, lame
2025-03-04T16:45:18 < Steffanx> Yes bitmask, who else?
2025-03-04T16:45:32 < bitmask> I dunno, yea I'm good, and yourself?
2025-03-04T16:47:39 < Steffanx> Could be worse 
2025-03-04T16:49:06 < bitmask> thats the spirit
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2025-03-04T20:46:38 < Steffanx> hm
2025-03-04T20:47:00 < Steffanx> In the region im from its actually a positive thing bitmask
2025-03-04T20:47:18 < Steffanx> "Did you like dinner" "Could be worse" => "Yeah I liked it!!"
2025-03-04T20:50:40 < qyx> here it means what it literally means
2025-03-04T20:50:56 < qyx> "it wasn't that bad, bit not good either"
2025-03-04T20:57:54 < Steffanx> yeah people are weird
2025-03-04T21:03:12 -!- drzacek [~quassel@2a01:3d8:3e8:7d00:1cd5:2383:809e:7e96] has joined ##stm32
2025-03-04T21:07:59 < bitmask> people = Steffanx 
2025-03-04T21:21:41 < Steffanx> Hereby I include you in the gang bitmask . Welcome.
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2025-03-04T22:23:25 < bitmask> the gang? what gang? I don't wanna be in a gang. 
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 05 2025
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2025-03-05T09:47:25 < machinehum> You paid for an IRC client?
2025-03-05T09:49:37 < jpa-> all pro ircers do
2025-03-05T09:50:19 < yakubin> I did. And the one I use is open source.
2025-03-05T09:50:51 < yakubin> https://www.codeux.com/textual/
2025-03-05T09:51:15 < yakubin> Source is at <https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual/>, but you can buy precompiled versions.
2025-03-05T09:51:49 -!- martinmoene [~Martin@2a02-a45a-96ba-1-9831-718d-5e19-33d9.fixed6.kpn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2025-03-05T09:53:12 < qyx> I am using a client from 1990
2025-03-05T09:53:37 < qyx> sorry 1999
2025-03-05T09:53:48 < zyp> same
2025-03-05T09:54:02 < machinehum> weechat works fine for me
2025-03-05T09:54:22 < machinehum> Running in screen, in my linode
2025-03-05T09:59:05 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IrcII   time to upgrade to this
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2025-03-05T11:39:28 < karlp> oops, mchp restructruring
2025-03-05T11:42:53 < karlp> they're goin to sell mchp parts packaged in china, with a chinese brand, and chinese dev tools?!
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2025-03-05T11:46:24 < qyx> probably some export controls and duties for complete parts?
2025-03-05T11:47:16 < qyx> they want to integrate NPUs, isn't that forbidden to export from the US now?
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2025-03-05T14:06:04 < machinehum> https://bitchx.sourceforge.net/
2025-03-05T14:16:27 < machinehum> Anyone know of a BLE chip with SDIO
2025-03-05T14:17:00 < machinehum> +USB
2025-03-05T14:23:33 < zyp> no, you'll probably have to go with two chips or use SPI mode
2025-03-05T14:29:17 < machinehum> :/
2025-03-05T14:29:35 < zyp> what's your application?
2025-03-05T14:30:16 < zyp> oh, wait, esp32 can do BLE, and I think they have variants with SDIO
2025-03-05T14:30:48 < ventyl> nrf52 too, but probably none of them has USB
2025-03-05T14:30:56 < zyp> nrf52 doesn't have sdio
2025-03-05T14:31:00 < zyp> nrf52840 has USB
2025-03-05T14:41:12 < karlp> esp32, esp32s3.
2025-03-05T14:45:09 < qyx> SDIO as an interface for BLE?
2025-03-05T14:45:21 < qyx> I have only seen ble+wifi chips with serial/usb/sdio
2025-03-05T14:47:31 < machinehum> I wanna make a smartwatch, you can put an SD card into
2025-03-05T14:47:44 < machinehum> And have decent MSD speeds
2025-03-05T14:48:08 < machinehum> Sadly ESP32 power consumption too high
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2025-03-05T14:53:19 < karlp> ahve fun with zephyr then :)
2025-03-05T14:53:31 < karlp> stm32wb too of course.
2025-03-05T14:53:43 < karlp> silabs has a bunch
2025-03-05T15:14:46 < radhitya> today i bought stm32 blue pill and black pill
2025-03-05T15:14:49 < radhitya> \o/
2025-03-05T15:42:34 < zyp> I'm sorry to hear that
2025-03-05T15:44:39 < zyp> machinehum, MSD as in usb mass storage?
2025-03-05T15:47:43 < karlp> because that's exactly what a low power phone needs ;)
2025-03-05T15:47:49 < karlp> low power watch... sorry
2025-03-05T15:48:17 < zyp> yeah, I mean, not much point going for SDIO if all you've got is FS USB anyway
2025-03-05T15:50:51 < machinehum> When it's acting as a mass storage device it's plugged in, when on battery I doesn't talk to the SD card
2025-03-05T15:51:50 < machinehum> I was hoping USB HS would also be possible
2025-03-05T15:52:54 < zyp> so why not use a dedicated card reader chip for that, if that has nothing to do with BLE?
2025-03-05T15:54:03 < machinehum> Would like to update the BLE chip over USB, and sign stuff with a TPM/HSM. But I guess I could use a usb mux
2025-03-05T15:54:44 < machinehum> That's actually kinda cool, authenticate to the BLE chip which then enables the mux, kinda unlocking the SD card
2025-03-05T15:55:58 < machinehum> I think even with USBHS + SDIO the MCU would have troubles shoving around data that quickly, unless you have some DMA stuff that works with MSD?
2025-03-05T15:57:09 < zyp> of course you'd use DMA for the data lifting
2025-03-05T16:02:56 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense I've just never done periph<->periph DMA before
2025-03-05T16:03:11 < machinehum> Just mem to periph, mem to mem
2025-03-05T16:05:55 < zyp> yeah, there's no periph to periph mode
2025-03-05T16:06:32 < zyp> you'd have two independent jobs, one doing periph to mem, one doing mem to periph
2025-03-05T16:06:42 < machinehum> o
2025-03-05T16:06:59 < machinehum> I thought I read in a datasheet once something about that
2025-03-05T16:08:13 < machinehum> wtf was is maybe an f7
2025-03-05T16:10:26 < ventyl> that probably has very little value after all. you still need to inject something like protocol headers
2025-03-05T16:13:47 < machinehum> RM0090 p307
2025-03-05T16:13:57 < machinehum> But yeah ventyl, makes sense.
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2025-03-05T16:16:02 < machinehum> Nevermind on the RM0009 comment, I misread
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2025-03-05T16:45:56 < flatmush> you can dma straight from spi into usb ram with no intermediate step, so mass storage can be done on stm32g4 with very low overhead
2025-03-05T16:46:23 < flatmush> assume it'd be the same with sdio and usb-hs
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2025-03-05T18:27:55 < machinehum> New mission, try to fit a CV1800B, which will boot only in the event of USB connection
2025-03-05T18:28:33 < jbo> what are you trying to innovate?
2025-03-05T18:29:46 < machinehum> USB MSD device on your wrist, heartbeat stops, deletes all your data.
2025-03-05T18:30:06 < jbo> are you trying to farm clicks again?
2025-03-05T18:30:43 < machinehum> jbo: Yes of course
2025-03-05T18:33:14 < jbo> don't forget to use jbopcb
2025-03-05T18:33:36 < machinehum> First thing today to make me laugh
2025-03-05T18:34:54 < jbo> at least I don't go around and steal MtG cards
2025-03-05T18:37:41 < Steffanx> Where's my multi insert usb drive machinehum ?
2025-03-05T18:38:17 < Steffanx> I still expect one as payment for "stealing" my idea :P
2025-03-05T18:50:17 < machinehum> USB MSD device on your wrist, heartbeat stops, deletes all your data.
2025-03-05T18:50:56 < machinehum> Whoops
2025-03-05T18:51:06 < machinehum> Steffanx: Yeah I can send you one
2025-03-05T18:52:04 < machinehum> I gave one to my brother https://imgur.com/ni634ZL I thought that was pretty funny
2025-03-05T18:54:50 < BrainDamage> is it a device that changes behaviour when you reuplug it x times?
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2025-03-05T19:03:27 < Steffanx> Yeah BrainDamage 
2025-03-05T19:04:03 < BrainDamage> so, a regular usb A plug? you have to rotate them 3 times to find the correct orientation
2025-03-05T19:05:33 < Steffanx> Accept that you actually have to plug it in 
2025-03-05T19:09:26 < jpa-> BrainDamage: only 3? but there are 24 possible orientations
2025-03-05T19:09:31 < jpa-> how can you possibly figure it in 3 tries
2025-03-05T19:10:00 < jbo> BrainDamage is smart boi
2025-03-05T19:13:11 < Steffanx> Don't forget to try the Ethernet port
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2025-03-06T02:05:32 < bitmask> oh boy oh boy
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2025-03-06T09:13:57 < qyx> hello innovators
2025-03-06T09:17:52 < qyx> oh so americans don't need the ministry of education?
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2025-03-06T10:13:28 < Steffanx> They have education, qyx?
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2025-03-06T13:42:52 < qyx> so what's the actual state of bluetooth from a mobile browser?
2025-03-06T13:50:43 < karlp> from a mobile _browser_ ?
2025-03-06T13:50:47 < karlp> like, webbluetooth?
2025-03-06T13:52:06 < karlp> that's chrome/edge/opera only. no safari, no safari mobile, no firefox, no 
2025-03-06T13:53:49 < Steffanx> In short: terrible
2025-03-06T13:53:55 < karlp> ^^
2025-03-06T13:56:26 < Steffanx> Just like all the other ideas they had/have with Web*. WebUSB, WebHID and WebWhatNot
2025-03-06T13:58:28 < Steffanx> Except maybe wasm and webgl
2025-03-06T13:59:01 < karlp> chrome is like ie4....
2025-03-06T14:05:40 < qyx> but but I am not into java, how to do a mobile ble configurator?
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2025-03-06T14:50:21 < karlp> you discover how "easy" modern app dev is :)
2025-03-06T14:50:32 < karlp> and of course, for branding, you _must_ hav eyour own app for your hardware!
2025-03-06T14:50:53 < karlp> (you can also look at what other apps exist, and if any of them can be reused suitably for your own branding/desires)
2025-03-06T14:51:16 < karlp> but the normal answer here is "make your own app" or "implment someone elses app protoocols"
2025-03-06T14:51:34 < karlp> where "normal" means "I assume, because fucked if I do anything in this space commercially anymore"
2025-03-06T14:51:55 < karlp> I told people off here for dreaming up protocols that were going ot require custom apps though.
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2025-03-06T15:51:13 < ventyl> a few years ago, we did a mobile app with apache cordova, which is basically a bunch of native libraries glued to back of web-browser UI + shit ton of JS and HTML. is this hopeless with BLE too?
2025-03-06T15:51:36 < ventyl> cordova looked like long-dead project back then but apparently some 30% of apps are written in it
2025-03-06T16:21:46 < karlp> feckin, doing websockets with esp-idf, mallocing frames, filling them, freeing in the callbacks, checking _every_ return code.
2025-03-06T16:21:50 < karlp> and... it just loses some of them.
2025-03-06T16:22:00 < karlp> I never get a log, or the complete callback.
2025-03-06T16:41:39 < karlp> I swear this is an ESP-IDF bug though.
2025-03-06T16:41:41 < karlp> booo.
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2025-03-06T17:38:04 < jpa-> does anyone here get reader's digest? the finnish version has this map with speech bubbles where a question has answers from people from different countries, and the answer from finland is always really stupid
2025-03-06T17:38:22 < jpa-> so is it just the finnish edition that picks a stupid answer for ourselves, or are we just that dumb?
2025-03-06T17:43:02 < ventyl> does that thing still exist?
2025-03-06T18:03:44 < karlp> in finland at least :)
2025-03-06T18:04:06 < karlp> ok. so this appears to be the fact that they queue work to the http server by sending it on a "control" udp socket
2025-03-06T18:04:08 < karlp> and that ahs a fixed size
2025-03-06T18:04:28 < zyp> wat
2025-03-06T18:04:28 < karlp> and unless you enable "do blocking control writes" ... because it's udp, it just... succeeds, whetehr there's space or not.
2025-03-06T18:05:04 < karlp> they're using IPC over sockets, it's not totally crazy, but there's no UDS on esp32, so they use localhost udp instead..
2025-03-06T18:05:37 < karlp> anyway, making the "queue work use a blocking call" which uses a counting semaphore around the udp send makes it work reliably.
2025-03-06T18:05:46 < karlp> extremely unfun.
2025-03-06T18:08:28 < karlp> https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/esp32/api-reference/kconfig-reference.html#config-httpd-queue-work-blocking
2025-03-06T18:08:29 < ventyl> i remember reader's digest as thick envelopes containing useless crap and offer to send us more useless crap if we dare to subscribe to their "whatever, send us your paper crap" service.
2025-03-06T18:12:44 < ventyl> I refactored my driver into a state machine and now I can't wrap my head around the fact that a bunch of old code that handled "special cases" is not needed anymore
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2025-03-06T21:57:22 < bitmask> hmmm should I get one of those flexispot desks?
2025-03-06T22:00:27 < bitmask> $690 is a bit much for a cheap desk
2025-03-06T22:00:46 < bitmask> and thats with a possible $50 coupon
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2025-03-06T22:02:14 < bitmask> 180x78 cm
2025-03-06T22:02:18 < bitmask> is a nice size though
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2025-03-06T22:35:45 < Steffanx> Ikea does it for cheaper :)
2025-03-06T22:36:23 < Steffanx> ok it does not actually, was looking at the wrong one
2025-03-06T22:37:12 < zyp> if ikea doesn't do it cheaper, they probably do it better
2025-03-06T22:37:23 < Steffanx> hah that is probably also true
2025-03-06T22:38:09 < zyp> well, ikea tends to be good value for money, so whatever they got tends to be cheaper and/or better than alternatives
2025-03-06T22:38:10 < Steffanx> I like my IDÅSEN desk. Its no fancy sit/stand edition though
2025-03-06T22:39:21 < zyp> I like my GALANT desk, wish they didn't get discontinued
2025-03-06T22:39:42 < zyp> that's the ones that was modular
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2025-03-07T01:17:38 < bitmask> Ive always wanted a SKÅDIS setup, whatever desk I end up getting I'm gonna attach a few panels to the back
2025-03-07T01:18:07 < bitmask> I don't want to screw them into the walls so I think the desk is the best option
2025-03-07T01:20:26 < bitmask> maybe I will go with the IDÅSEN. not a huge fan of the bottom of the legs but I like how it works
2025-03-07T01:20:42 < bitmask> everyone watching the starship launch?
2025-03-07T01:39:13 < bitmask> damn
2025-03-07T01:39:15 < bitmask> not again
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2025-03-07T08:46:31 < BrainDamage> bitmask: the legs are like that because otherwise it'll wobble at max height, like most variable height desks
2025-03-07T08:47:05 < BrainDamage> and even that is a compromise, ideally they'd need 4 legs
2025-03-07T08:47:24 < BrainDamage> but that's 4 motors and mechanims instead of 2
2025-03-07T08:48:54 < bitmask> did I say something about the legs?
2025-03-07T08:50:24 < BrainDamage> "not a huge fan of the bottom of the legs"
2025-03-07T08:53:08 < bitmask> I don't think I said that
2025-03-07T08:53:28 < BrainDamage> you literally did
2025-03-07T08:53:37 < bitmask> haha where
2025-03-07T08:53:42 < bitmask> when
2025-03-07T08:53:55 < bitmask> ohhh haha nvm
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2025-03-07T08:54:21 < bitmask> I thought you meant the flexispot desks, my bad, I forgot we talked about other desks
2025-03-07T08:54:23 < bitmask> :P
2025-03-07T08:54:57 < bitmask> you were talking about max height so I thought you meant the adjustable ones, the one I was talking about wasn't adjustable, at least not more than a few inches I think
2025-03-07T08:55:23 < bitmask> I didn't really look at it
2025-03-07T09:19:46 < radhitya> i'm suprised it take big spaces for stm32cube ide (i'm newcomer)
2025-03-07T09:29:12 < qyx> cube is bloatware
2025-03-07T09:31:46 < radhitya> I don???t know about that. Some people taught me to install STM32Cube because I???m a newcomer, but I prefer GCC + Vim.
2025-03-07T09:31:48 < radhitya> jelaskan GCC dan Vim
2025-03-07T09:31:50 < radhitya> alternatif editor kode
2025-03-07T09:31:52 < radhitya> lebih natural
2025-03-07T09:32:05 < radhitya> lel, sorry, i use ai for grammar checker xD
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2025-03-07T10:51:38 < Steffanx> Good morning bitmask 
2025-03-07T10:52:25 < Steffanx> Your memory is a short as your president's memory. Are you going to be ok?
2025-03-07T11:00:24 < ventyl> don't mock him or he'll invade you
2025-03-07T11:09:55 < jpa-> or make *you* pay tariffs for stuff he buys
2025-03-07T11:13:14 < Steffanx> Yeah I'm scared. I happen to know bitmask's hair colour is the same as his president's skin colour. I see a pattern.
2025-03-07T11:45:33 < ventyl> how good that cuboid is following the same general path as the agent orange
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2025-03-07T15:48:53 < Steffanx> Is Stefan being overly helpful yet, mawk?
2025-03-07T15:49:13 < Steffanx> *trying to be
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2025-03-07T15:55:52 < mawk> not yet
2025-03-07T15:56:01 < mawk> we're just buying a bunch of modules in advance and that's it
2025-03-07T15:56:14 < mawk> I think we didn't answer his calls
2025-03-07T15:56:20 < mawk> we'll see if he offers us a bottle of gin again
2025-03-07T16:18:12 < qyx> what about offering a bottle of ibloces
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2025-03-07T16:18:15 < qyx> *ubloces
2025-03-07T17:09:09 < jbo> aisler managed to deliver something
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2025-03-07T19:16:06 < Steffanx> Did they now?
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2025-03-07T21:51:05 < jbo> zyp
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2025-03-07T22:47:42 < zyp> yes
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 08 2025
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2025-03-08T00:14:25 < bitmask> im an idiot
2025-03-08T00:14:32 < bitmask> no one should have gigabit internet
2025-03-08T00:14:49 < bitmask> i filled up my new hard drive like overnight
2025-03-08T00:19:23 < aandrew> lol
2025-03-08T00:20:17 < aandrew> tell me about it
2025-03-08T00:20:18 < aandrew> $ sudo lsblk -S
2025-03-08T00:20:18 < aandrew> NAME HCTL       TYPE VENDOR   MODEL             REV TRAN
2025-03-08T00:20:18 < aandrew> sdf  5:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM001-1ER1 CC25 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:18 < aandrew> sdo  0:0:8:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EZRZ-22G 0A80 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:21 < aandrew> sdd  3:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:23 < aandrew> sdm  0:0:6:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EFAX-68J 0A82 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:26 < aandrew> sdb  2:0:0:0    disk ATA      WDC WD20EZRX-00D 0A80 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:28 < aandrew> sdk  0:0:4:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2CV1 0001 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:31 < aandrew> sdi  0:0:2:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2CV1 0001 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:33 < aandrew> sdg  6:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:36 < aandrew> sde  4:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:38 < aandrew> sdn  0:0:7:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EFAX-68J 0A82 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:41 < aandrew> sdc  7:0:0:0    disk Lexar    USB Flash Drive  1100 usb
2025-03-08T00:20:45 < aandrew> sdl  0:0:5:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EZRZ-00G 0A80 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:48 < aandrew> sda  1:0:0:0    di
2025-03-08T00:20:50 < aandrew> sda  1:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM001-1ER1 CC25 sata
2025-03-08T00:20:51 < qyx> your disk-fu is pretty long
2025-03-08T00:20:53 < aandrew> sdj  0:0:3:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2CV1 0001 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:55 < aandrew> sdh  0:0:1:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EZAZ-22S 0A80 sas
2025-03-08T00:20:58 < aandrew> sdp  0:0:9:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2U91 0001 sas
2025-03-08T00:21:49 < aandrew> $ sudo vgs
2025-03-08T00:21:52 < aandrew>   VG    #PV #LV #SN Attr   VSize   VFree
2025-03-08T00:21:55 < aandrew>   foo     1   0   0 wz--n- 956.00m 956.00m
2025-03-08T00:21:57 < aandrew>   media   2  22   0 wz--n-  29.11t   2.72t
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2025-03-08T01:01:35 < bitmask> I gotta get an external thunderbolt 5 4TB for AI stuffs
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2025-03-08T01:24:30 < aandrew> why TB5 for AI stuff? it's still way too slow for AI stuff isn't it?
2025-03-08T01:25:36 < aandrew> I need to get 32GB RK3288 set up so I can do some testing with it for LLMs and all that unified memory, pity I can't get more memory on that thing but I do have PCIe x4, maybe I can conceieve some kind of "L1" ramdrive 
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2025-03-08T02:29:54 < bitmask> I just like the idea that its as fast as my internal drive. I guess its not really necessary but I'll decide when I check prices
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2025-03-08T02:43:30 < zyp> aandrew, you mean rk3588?
2025-03-08T02:48:04 < specing> zyp: definetely, nothing else supports 32 GB ram
2025-03-08T02:48:50 < zyp> I ordered some rk3588 board a few weeks ago
2025-03-08T02:49:23 < zyp> turns out there's apparently a trend now of making fake aliexpress stores and providing fake tracking numbers
2025-03-08T02:49:45 < zyp> happened to both that order and another that I placed a week later
2025-03-08T02:58:03 < aandrew> yes sorry, 3588
2025-03-08T02:58:12 < aandrew> wow really
2025-03-08T02:58:18 < aandrew> I have not had that happen (yet)
2025-03-08T02:58:37 < aandrew> funnily enough it was cheaper to buy the 32G RK3588 on amazon than it was on ali, and free shipping
2025-03-08T02:58:48 < aandrew> the case however was cheaper on Ali than Amazon
2025-03-08T03:01:07 < specing> ali makes it difficult to find best offer and their website is just gross (visual overload)
2025-03-08T03:03:43 < aandrew> yep
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2025-03-08T17:30:42 < Steffanx> Aliexpress... the placeholders in the search bar are awesome though. Whenever and wherever i open the the website, it has some nsfw entry there...
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2025-03-08T19:30:33 < BrainDamage> aliexpress speaks in tongues to me
2025-03-08T19:30:42 < BrainDamage> the same elements contains a mix of french, italian, english and spanish
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2025-03-08T23:35:02 < qyx> helo weekend innovators
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 09 2025
2025-03-09T00:03:33 < radhitya> o/ hello all
2025-03-09T00:04:19 < Steffanx> Hello innovators 
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2025-03-10T01:15:19 < qyx> veverak: hjalp, which local pcb fabs did you try?
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2025-03-10T09:13:54 < veverak> qyx: why the hell would you want local?
2025-03-10T09:14:22 < veverak> qyx: anyway, I personally had one round of pcb only from here: https://www.gatema.cz/ 
2025-03-10T09:14:54 < veverak> BUT, that happend because university laboratory I was at sourced all their PCBs from gatema, so I guess they are not bad at all
2025-03-10T09:15:05 < veverak> (lab does multilayer pcbs periodically)
2025-03-10T09:40:57 < qyx> I only did pragoboard back in 2012
2025-03-10T09:41:16 < qyx> hm someone already mentioned gatema
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2025-03-10T09:41:21 < qyx> I should check them, thanks
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2025-03-10T10:26:45 < veverak> qyx: well company I worked for used pragoboard frequently at one point
2025-03-10T10:27:01 < veverak> the experience was terrible, so my take definetly was gatema>pragoboard
2025-03-10T10:27:44 < qyx> that's very sad
2025-03-10T10:28:42 < qyx> I also used sqp and zvt (both .sk) but they were both pretty expensive and we were ordering dual layer only
2025-03-10T10:28:59 < qyx> I am curious what aisler uses
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2025-03-10T13:28:59 < karlp> fecking js sparse arrays.
2025-03-10T13:29:12 < karlp> "In some operations, empty slots behave as if they are filled with undefined." "But in others (most notably array iteration methods), empty slots are skipped."
2025-03-10T13:29:28 < karlp> here was me trying to do Array(360).map()
2025-03-10T13:29:38 < infisc> The black box is not black enough.
2025-03-10T13:37:17 < ventyl> does JS really support arrays? aren't they really "dictionaries" as in Python?
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2025-03-11T16:10:23 < PhantomWork> Question guys, to interface with WS2812 leds, which methods would you suggest? I do have some interrupts that I'm worried would mess the timing
2025-03-11T16:11:19 < zyp> DMA
2025-03-11T16:12:58 < PhantomWork> That is what I tought and didn't want to hear :D I need to learn DMA then. thanks
2025-03-11T16:13:30 < PhantomWork> and the leds need a 0/5V signal right? so need a level up shifter right?
2025-03-11T16:16:29 < zyp> yeah, I've used SN74LV1T34
2025-03-11T16:17:04 < zyp> see e.g. page 2 here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nV6sp/testrack_carrier.pdf
2025-03-11T16:17:37 < qyx> they work with 3v3
2025-03-11T16:17:46 < qyx> but I am using 74x125 for them
2025-03-11T16:17:55 < qyx> and I am using polled SPI
2025-03-11T16:18:03 < zyp> correction: they *mostly* work with 3.3V
2025-03-11T16:18:24 < zyp> you're borderline on the input thresholds and I've seen issues in practice
2025-03-11T16:18:34 < zyp> so better safe than sorry, a buffer costs nothing
2025-03-11T16:18:51 < jbo> +1
2025-03-11T16:19:01 < qyx> I am not arguing about that
2025-03-11T16:19:12 < qyx> but customer is using them regularly hanging off a rpi gpio
2025-03-11T16:19:18 < qyx> no problems so far
2025-03-11T16:20:07 < zyp> the issue with SPI is that SPI freq divider is usually pretty coarse, UART divider tends to be much more fine grained
2025-03-11T16:20:26 < zyp> then again, with UART you have to cheat around the start/stop bits
2025-03-11T16:21:26 < zyp> on the G0, you can configure the UART as 7n.5 and set it to idle low
2025-03-11T16:22:04 < zyp> then just send 0x88, 0x8c, 0xc8 or 0xcc for 0b00, 0b01, 0b10 or 0b11 respectively
2025-03-11T16:23:26 < zyp> IIRC I've got a const uint32_t[256] LUT for expanding each byte into four when preparing the DMA buffer
2025-03-11T16:23:38 < zyp> then just have DMA throw the entire sequence at the UART
2025-03-11T16:24:22 < zyp> same method should work with SPI if you can get the frequency right
2025-03-11T16:25:12 < zyp> otherwise you could use a timer with output compare, but then you only get one bit per DMA transfer, and would need to expand each byte to 64b when preparing the buffer
2025-03-11T16:26:31 < qyx> nah isn't one bit 1 us?
2025-03-11T16:26:42 < zyp> 1.25
2025-03-11T16:30:06  * lemmi likes rp2040 pio for ws2812
2025-03-11T16:30:07 < qyx> checking my code, I am using 2 us period
2025-03-11T16:30:30 < qyx> 1 is 1.5 us high, 0.5 us low
2025-03-11T16:30:34 < lemmi> so far that has been the most sanity preserving way to do it
2025-03-11T16:30:44 < qyx> 0 is 0.25 us high, 1.75 us low
2025-03-11T16:31:36 < qyx> SPI running at 4 MHz and sending 0xfc and 0x80 for 1 and 0 respectively
2025-03-11T16:42:57 < PhantomWork> And DMA on PWM or SPI or UART?
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2025-03-11T16:45:42 < qyx> SAI is also a possibility
2025-03-11T16:46:46 < qyx> set one slot, 8 bit data or so, dout only
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2025-03-11T17:55:53 < jbo> everything is pain
2025-03-11T18:01:33 < mawk> baguette
2025-03-11T18:01:46 < jbo> mon dieu
2025-03-11T18:07:23 < mawk> oui?
2025-03-11T18:11:00 < zyp> パン
2025-03-11T18:11:07 < Steffanx> Omelette du fromage 
2025-03-11T18:11:38 < BrainDamage> baguette is french, french is pain
2025-03-11T18:12:19 -!- hexo_ [~hexo@user/hexo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2025-03-11T18:12:45 < hsv> un oeuf is enough
2025-03-11T18:19:02 < karlp> qyx: I've had plenty of problems with 3.3v ws2812 that went away with 5v. 
2025-03-11T18:19:09 < karlp> depends on which exact versions 
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2025-03-11T19:19:48 < PhantomWork> qyx: SAI?
2025-03-11T19:21:28 < qyx> yes the audio interface
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2025-03-11T21:04:06 < jbo> Steffanx
2025-03-11T21:07:43 < Steffanx> who is that jbo ?
2025-03-11T21:09:04 < jbo> :<
2025-03-11T21:10:25 < Steffanx> Hello jbo. How is your day today?
2025-03-11T21:10:43 < jbo> good thanks how is you?
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2025-03-11T21:15:16 < Steffanx> wonderful.
2025-03-11T21:18:07 < jbo> happy to hear that
2025-03-11T21:19:26 < Steffanx> i hope so
2025-03-11T21:19:35 < Steffanx> even if its a lie?
2025-03-11T21:20:58 < jbo> it shouldn't be
2025-03-11T21:22:13 < Steffanx> hmm
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2025-03-11T21:28:28 < NEYi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K96iV5LGDQ0&ab_channel=JoelHaver
2025-03-11T21:28:43 < NEYi> Sometimes it's optimism. :)
2025-03-11T21:29:12 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has joined ##stm32
2025-03-11T21:33:56 < Steffanx> That video is so cringy i could not finish it NEYi  :P
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2025-03-12T14:40:07 < karlp> anyone enough of a systemd nerd to know why firefox and my console can load and ping a blah.local name.
2025-03-12T14:40:19 < karlp> but chromium and "resolvectl query" just fail?
2025-03-12T14:45:47 < karlp> anddddd it's flatpak again.
2025-03-12T14:46:17 < karlp> resolvectl isn't _expected_ to work for .local, so that's just coincidental :)
2025-03-12T14:52:35 < BrainDamage> chromium doesn't use the system resolver fwiw
2025-03-12T14:57:12 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2025-03-12T15:01:26 < ventyl> Arch wiki also mentioned that there are (at least) two ways to configure resolver (/etc/resolv.conf and something systemd-specific) and not everything honors both of them
2025-03-12T15:07:45 < jbo> hello
2025-03-12T15:23:03 < machinehum> hoi
2025-03-12T15:23:12 < jbo> :x
2025-03-12T15:23:17 < machinehum> ;o
2025-03-12T15:25:12 < jbo> you should be focusing on work
2025-03-12T15:26:32 < machinehum> Or else what
2025-03-12T15:26:46 < machinehum> You gonna get me deported
2025-03-12T15:44:31 < ventyl> bitmask will
2025-03-12T15:49:30 < machinehum> Imagine being an illegal Canadian in the US, getting chucked into an ICE detention center
2025-03-12T15:52:28 < machinehum> https://i.imgur.com/HgjjnsC.jpeg
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2025-03-12T15:53:06 < machinehum> Boards came out alright
2025-03-12T15:58:02 < ventyl> You are all going to be replaced with AI
2025-03-12T16:00:16 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has joined ##stm32
2025-03-12T16:02:44 < machinehum> ok
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2025-03-12T23:03:18 < bitmask> happy birthday to... me
2025-03-12T23:03:42 < qyx> thank you
2025-03-12T23:03:54 < jbo> thanks!
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2025-03-12T23:09:26 < Steffanx> bitmask_ i hope you are happy you to have shared another year with us.
2025-03-12T23:09:33 < Steffanx> -to
2025-03-12T23:09:43 < Steffanx> meh, im tired. time to sleep :P
2025-03-12T23:10:42 -!- bitmask_ is now known as bitmask
2025-03-12T23:10:58 < bitmask> very happy
2025-03-12T23:11:11 < bitmask> good night good sir
2025-03-12T23:12:02 < Steffanx> Are you enjoying the life without naked people around?
2025-03-12T23:12:53 < bitmask> well naked guy passed away a couple years ago. He was only naked for like a month anyway. now I'm the naked guy
2025-03-12T23:13:26 < Steffanx> Oh dear. 
2025-03-12T23:13:39 < Steffanx> Hands above the desk..
2025-03-12T23:13:42 < jbo> wait what
2025-03-12T23:13:47 < jbo> is there some lore I missed?
2025-03-12T23:13:59 < zyp> yes.
2025-03-12T23:14:23 < jbo> you guys always seem to be having more fun when I'm not around
2025-03-12T23:15:03 < bitmask> actually theres a new naked guy. her grandfather isn't doing very well, dementia and all that. he doesn't have enough strength to walk so when I had to watch him I'd have to help him put his peepee in a jug 
2025-03-12T23:15:26 < bitmask> oh the fun times...
2025-03-12T23:15:29 < zyp> «her»?
2025-03-12T23:15:39 < bitmask> my gf
2025-03-12T23:16:03 < bitmask> i lived with her at her family's house for quite a few years until just recently
2025-03-12T23:16:20 < qyx> do you have a gf
2025-03-12T23:16:41 < bitmask> who me? I just said I do I think
2025-03-12T23:16:44 < qyx> I mean, didn't you let her go or was that someone else
2025-03-12T23:16:58 < bitmask> oh we used to fight all the time
2025-03-12T23:17:03 < bitmask> so probably was me at some point
2025-03-12T23:19:03 < bitmask> im not quite the mess I used to be
2025-03-12T23:27:50 < bitmask> what text editor do you guys use? I want to start paying for all my software and I'm used to using sublime text, but for $100 or whatever it is maybe I should check if I like anything better
2025-03-12T23:28:09 < bitmask> im on mac btw
2025-03-12T23:28:28 < jbo> vim
2025-03-12T23:29:03 < bitmask> is that still a thing?
2025-03-12T23:29:24 < specing> vim here as well
2025-03-12T23:29:37 < zyp> vscode with vim plugin
2025-03-12T23:29:49 < bitmask> interesting
2025-03-12T23:30:02 < specing> I use GPS for stm32 dev
2025-03-12T23:30:18 < specing> (but otherwise vim for everything else)
2025-03-12T23:35:13 < Steffanx> I'll sell you a copy of vim for $99.99 bitmask
2025-03-12T23:35:20 < bitmask> haha
2025-03-12T23:36:25 < jbo> +$49.99 for one year maintenance
2025-03-12T23:37:33 < jbo> +$19.99 for theme access
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 13 2025
2025-03-13T00:30:37 < fenugrec> vim/gvim more and more
2025-03-13T00:30:51 < fenugrec> if I can solve a few clipboard issue it's going to be 100% vim
2025-03-13T00:35:03 < jbo> the key to success for any clipboard issue is solid memory and fast typing skills
2025-03-13T00:53:36 < zyp> I thought the trick now was to just use an AI assistant that knows what you're about to write/paste/whatever
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2025-03-13T01:33:14 < qyx> zyp: I am recurrently facing the problem of a truly remote debug
2025-03-13T01:33:59 < qyx> that is, having a internet-connected box (not interesting part) with an expansion board with 2-4 SWD probes (that's the interesting part)
2025-03-13T01:34:08 < zyp> how remote are we talking? need self contained battery and LTE?
2025-03-13T01:34:12 < qyx> yes
2025-03-13T01:34:20 < qyx> but I am more concerned about those probes
2025-03-13T01:34:27 < zyp> ah
2025-03-13T01:34:53 < qyx> what would be the best approach? is your fpga stuff easy to redo for 4 outputs?
2025-03-13T01:35:00 < zyp> I've already had somebody asking for an orbtrace quad
2025-03-13T01:35:06 < qyx> exactly
2025-03-13T01:35:16 < qyx> also an oem version would be nice :)
2025-03-13T01:35:36 < qyx> line stlink v3 mini, but with fpga and all the orbtrace stuff as a module
2025-03-13T01:36:34 < qyx> I wanted to use stlink v3 mini, but 1. no support for non-stm, 2. usb is not accessible on its pads
2025-03-13T01:36:51 < zyp> somebody was talking about using orbtrace as a module, it has an expansion connector on the bottom
2025-03-13T01:37:34 < zyp> anyway, if you take away the connectors, orbtrace is a fpga, usb-phy and some level shifters
2025-03-13T01:38:02 < qyx> yeah, I wouldn't mind redoing layout and routing for my purpose but idk about the software part
2025-03-13T01:38:19 < zyp> the gateware would probably port fairly easy to https://github.com/apfaudio/soldiercrab
2025-03-13T01:39:59 < qyx> oh great
2025-03-13T01:40:12 < qyx> so m.2 for fpga, m.2 for LTE and QFN for linux
2025-03-13T01:41:22 < zyp> if that has enough IO for you
2025-03-13T01:42:19 < zyp> I assume you don't need parallel trace
2025-03-13T01:42:34 < qyx> nope, just swdio, swclk, swo, nrst
2025-03-13T01:42:47 < qyx> so 16
2025-03-13T01:43:05 < zyp> plus level shifter control, so 28
2025-03-13T01:43:16 < qyx> the alternative is openocd + libgpiod :D
2025-03-13T01:43:37 < zyp> yeah, or some cmsis-dap implementation on anything
2025-03-13T01:44:07 < qyx> I only tried openocd using the old gpio interface and it was like 1 KB/s
2025-03-13T01:44:17 < qyx> but that was about 5y ago
2025-03-13T01:44:18 < zyp> :)
2025-03-13T01:45:02 < zyp> I assume you don't need target powering either? enough to just feed vtref from the target to the level shifter?
2025-03-13T01:45:10 < qyx> yeah
2025-03-13T01:45:16 < zyp> if so, only external parts you need are the level shifters
2025-03-13T01:45:24 < qyx> the target is a complex device with multiple boards and stuff
2025-03-13T01:45:35 < qyx> working in field
2025-03-13T01:45:39 < qyx> on its own
2025-03-13T01:46:16 < zyp> if you end up making this thing and send me a couple of boards, I'll cook up an orbtrace gateware variant for it :)
2025-03-13T01:47:20 < jbo> this sounds like fun
2025-03-13T01:47:41 < qyx> no fun for me because I am fpga-dum
2025-03-13T01:47:45 < jbo> qyx, what's between the orbtrace USB and the LTE?
2025-03-13T01:47:53 < qyx> probably some imx6
2025-03-13T01:48:51 < qyx> or newer imx91/93
2025-03-13T01:50:28 < jbo> idk I just thought of the J-Links with WiFi and was wondering if you'd want to have an orbtrace with cellular :D
2025-03-13T02:10:32 < mawk> jlink with wifi
2025-03-13T02:10:34 < mawk> sounds interesting
2025-03-13T02:10:39 < mawk> less cables on my desk
2025-03-13T02:11:42 < zyp> mawk, you could try farpatch
2025-03-13T02:12:06 < zyp> (farpatch is effectively a black magic probe with wifi)
2025-03-13T02:12:17 < mawk> sounds nice
2025-03-13T02:12:56 < mawk> the best I did was a raspberry pi with remote usb sharing thing to run the logic analyzer
2025-03-13T02:13:05 < mawk> but having it smaller and run off the device itself is better
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2025-03-13T02:36:13 < qyx> hm I need a dishwasher for my pcbs
2025-03-13T02:37:35 < jbo> qyx, it depends on the PCB but I often use an ultrasonic cleaner
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2025-03-13T17:22:22 < BrainDamage> iirc openocd can bitbang some protocols, including swd, so in principle you could have everything on a pi0
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2025-03-13T18:15:30 < qyx> yes it can but using the "old" gpio interface it was unusably slow
2025-03-13T18:15:42 < qyx> idk about the pi, I don't want pi
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2025-03-13T19:06:06 < Steffanx> Yes you do, qyx 
2025-03-13T19:33:08 < qyx> no Steffanx 
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2025-03-13T21:06:26 < qyx> really weird day today
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2025-03-13T22:33:43 < Steffanx> What makes it weird?
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 14 2025
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2025-03-14T00:33:53 < qyx> is it hard to make a daplink access from python?
2025-03-14T00:35:54 < qyx> oh there is some lib
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2025-03-14T05:50:57 < ds2> arrrrrrgggggggggggggggggg.. I hate python so very very very much
2025-03-14T05:51:39 < ds2> every single reason to use python is so refuted
2025-03-14T05:52:47 < ds2> 3234242314231212342 competing and incompatible ways to install packages... versions that aren't compatible with each other
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2025-03-14T08:33:10 < jpa-> qyx: pyocd at least works
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2025-03-14T09:13:32 < ventyl> mostly
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2025-03-14T09:51:02 < machinehum> ds2: What os are you using?
2025-03-14T09:51:44 < machinehum> I find python on OSX to be a horrible clusterfuck, but arch you just install everything with pacman which makes things manageable
2025-03-14T09:51:46 < qyx> ds2: idk I have just a single os-provided way and then there is a single python-provided way
2025-03-14T09:52:29 < qyx> maybe you was infected by karlp and tried flatpak
2025-03-14T09:52:40 < qyx> sorry
2025-03-14T09:54:44 < jpa-> traditionally you could install from os package manager, system-wide with pip, user-wide with pip, in virtualenv with pip, and manually to any of those with python setup.py install, or by appending directory to PYTHONPATH
2025-03-14T09:55:04 < jpa-> nowadays pip refuses to install system-wide (good), and also refuses to install user wide (stupid IMO)
2025-03-14T09:56:06 < jpa-> then you also have modules that import using absolute paths, relative package paths, and old-style relative paths
2025-03-14T09:56:54 < qyx> I am not gonna do any of them
2025-03-14T09:57:26 < qyx> if I distribute my software to run on a specific distro, I am either packing the required packages with the app or use distro package manager dependencies
2025-03-14T09:57:31 < jpa-> i throw a dice and always use a different method to keep my life exciting
2025-03-14T09:58:13 < qyx> virtual envs are docker of python for me
2025-03-14T09:58:23 < qyx> they make more hassle than they help, in the end
2025-03-14T09:59:09 < jpa-> then there are funny packages like grpcio-tools and protobuf that have a cross-dependency that only works with specific versions, but they don't put the versions in the dependency requirements.. so people end up with incompatible versions
2025-03-14T10:28:29 < ventyl> gtk, gdk, atk, cairo, pango, cairopango of Python world
2025-03-14T10:28:48 < ventyl> these packages usually have dependencies of a gypsy family
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2025-03-14T16:20:27 < jbo> lol
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2025-03-14T17:55:30 < Steffanx> jbo
2025-03-14T17:59:21 < jbo> Steffanx
2025-03-14T17:59:52 < Steffanx> Hi
2025-03-14T17:59:57 < jbo> Welcome
2025-03-14T18:00:14 < ventyl> |||
2025-03-14T18:00:45 < Steffanx> Thanks
2025-03-14T18:00:48 < jbo> pipe pipe pipe
2025-03-14T18:01:00 < Steffanx> What kind of secret message is that ventyl ?
2025-03-14T18:01:02 < ventyl> no, that's hamburger in landscape mode
2025-03-14T18:01:07 < jbo> nice
2025-03-14T18:01:20 < Steffanx> Hamburger menu 😱
2025-03-14T18:01:28 < ventyl> so, I have to learn how to teach
2025-03-14T18:01:36 < jbo> I like to put jpa- into landscape mode every evening
2025-03-14T18:01:48 < Steffanx> Is he that thick?
2025-03-14T18:01:49 < ventyl> jbo: isn't that default?
2025-03-14T18:02:26 < ventyl> like, I've already seen some people sleeping while standing with their head against the wall, but these cases almost always involved toxic substances
2025-03-14T18:03:22 < Steffanx> Fentanyl is great I heard
2025-03-14T18:04:56 < ventyl> I don't know, I every only made it to caffeine and THC
2025-03-14T18:06:38 < jbo> if only we'd have a drug specialist in our community
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2025-03-14T18:08:36 < Steffanx> That would be a little mawkward
2025-03-14T18:09:22 < ventyl> let's get back to fixing problems I could never have had I don't write my own operating system
2025-03-14T18:09:45 < jbo> joinbsd
2025-03-14T18:33:14 < fenugrec> venty is trying to write templeOS v2.0 ?
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2025-03-14T18:38:08 < ventyl> kind of
2025-03-14T18:38:15 < jbo> honestly, ventyl should /nick fentyl
2025-03-14T18:39:03 -!- ventyl is now known as fentyl
2025-03-14T18:39:07 < fentyl> -> https://1gr.cz/fotky/lidovky/15/083/maxi/ELE5d6036_2110625028_388152778002860_901332227.jpg
2025-03-14T18:48:25 < Steffanx> Here you would be: https://www.vandereijtfietsen.nl/image/data/112012021-Ventielsoorten-fiets-Biketotaal.png
2025-03-14T18:49:14 < Steffanx> I would pronounce "ventyl" as "ventiel" (which is a dutch word)
2025-03-14T18:49:51 < zyp> same
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2025-03-14T18:50:17 < zyp> (we don't put the extra e in there, just «ventil»)
2025-03-14T18:51:17 < fentyl> Steffanx: that's exactly what `ventyl` means locally
2025-03-14T18:51:30 < fentyl> just our grammar puts i there. y is czech spelling
2025-03-14T18:55:40 < jbo> step one of my plan succeeded
2025-03-14T18:55:45 < qyx> zyp: it is exactly like here
2025-03-14T18:55:47 < jbo> in the near future, I'll suggest to /nick fenty
2025-03-14T18:56:01 < jbo> ventil is also the german version
2025-03-14T18:56:38 < qyx> oh
2025-03-14T18:56:58 < qyx> TIL I am a corn
2025-03-14T18:57:04 < qyx> because I got vaccinated with mRNA
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2025-03-14T19:00:03 < Steffanx> Hah I see, fentyl 
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2025-03-14T19:12:03 < fentyl> Steffanx: do you also pronounce vee as fee in certain cases?
2025-03-14T19:12:19 < jbo> Steffanx pronounces everything as oui
2025-03-14T19:12:48 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français 
2025-03-14T19:13:42 < jbo> alors tu n'es plus mon ami
2025-03-14T19:14:01 < Steffanx> Almost fentyl. It's slightly different... But even a dutch won't hear the difference 
2025-03-14T19:17:01 < Steffanx> Too mauvais, jbo 😜
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2025-03-14T19:43:03 < ds2> Linux.. .it isn't the OS side that is the issue... silently wanting a particular python3.x is... but it doesn't say that...just fails dependency install. Apparently some folks wants to use conda, yet others want pip yet anothers who knows what.... without virtenv things goes to hell so that' yet another piece... this is decent into madness. 
2025-03-14T19:43:43 < ds2> a simple plain old Makefile - edit lines N to point to your install of xyz is so much more straight forward. 
2025-03-14T19:44:16 < ds2> and all I wanted to do is try some local models. 
2025-03-14T19:44:40 < ds2> this is just screaming madness...cube, keil, etc is less frustrating
2025-03-14T19:47:26 < ds2> oh yeah... forcing a newer version of python can apparently break the entire system so newer versions needs to be called with python3.xx foobar; which makes calling pip another clustfer
2025-03-14T19:49:11 < zyp> nah, just call `python3.xx -m pip`
2025-03-14T19:52:04 < zyp> personally I have good experiences using pyenv when the distro-default python is unsuitable
2025-03-14T19:59:34 < ds2> eventually figured it out... apparently under some cases there can also be a pip3.xx 
2025-03-14T20:00:04 < ds2> but like I said, this is hair pulling level of frustration that python claims to solve
2025-03-14T20:01:00 < zyp> python is great, some of the shit people do with python not so much
2025-03-14T20:02:18 < zyp> the latter goes for pretty much any language ecosystem though
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2025-03-14T20:28:17 < ds2> those are things python claims to solve... and it fails miserably at that
2025-03-14T20:29:13 < fentyl> dependency hell is a trap it is easy to fall in if version management is even a bit flaky
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2025-03-14T23:16:38 < nomorekaki> crew
2025-03-14T23:19:57 < fentyl> kakiw
2025-03-14T23:20:20 < nomorekaki> fent
2025-03-14T23:21:05 < nomorekaki> qyx: does sphinx have ircs?
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2025-03-14T23:38:31 < Steffanx> nomorekaki where have you beeen?
2025-03-14T23:38:47 < nomorekaki> nolifing hard
2025-03-14T23:38:48 < fentyl> behind the enemy lines
2025-03-14T23:38:59 < Steffanx> they have been night crewing without you all the time!
2025-03-14T23:39:12 -!- Livio_ [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2025-03-14T23:39:33 < nomorekaki> there are whole another levels of nolifing
2025-03-14T23:44:43 < machinehum> Time to rapidly drain my 7th beer and fall asleep
2025-03-14T23:46:01 < machinehum> Fuck I might not be able to walk back to my bed on the train
2025-03-14T23:46:23 < machinehum> It's cabin 53 if anyone wants to snuggle
2025-03-14T23:48:49 < machinehum> 2
2025-03-14T23:48:53 < Steffanx> jbo your help is needed.
2025-03-14T23:49:43 < machinehum> I'm too far north
2025-03-14T23:50:31 < machinehum> Why the cunt isn't this zug moving
2025-03-14T23:53:48 < fentyl> if it is in Germany, I could have some hints
--- Day changed Sat Mar 15 2025
2025-03-15T00:00:06 < machinehum> smashed 2 pints it\s rolling now \n\r
2025-03-15T00:19:52 -!- haritz is now known as saimazoon
2025-03-15T00:25:38 < nomorekaki> night cabin crew
2025-03-15T00:37:03 < jbo> Steffanx, I'm here now, was in meetings
2025-03-15T00:37:22 < jbo> aah
2025-03-15T00:37:44 < nomorekaki> machinehum: where are you going?
2025-03-15T00:42:57 < jbo> my thermometer still didn't show up
2025-03-15T00:44:22 < Steffanx> Oof. Where did you put it?
2025-03-15T00:44:26 < nomorekaki> did you cut the wires?
2025-03-15T00:45:29 < jbo> nomorekaki, not yet. still in baggy
2025-03-15T00:45:52 < nomorekaki> don be scared
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2025-03-15T02:30:37 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: The Courier was nice secret agent drama
2025-03-15T02:35:09 < nomorekaki> g'damn my mx master via bluetooth feels like shit after using my 6000 pollrate gayming mouse
2025-03-15T02:35:21 < nomorekaki> it's "spongy"
2025-03-15T02:38:12 < fentyl> bluetooth mice all seem spongy
2025-03-15T02:38:17 < jbo> +1
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2025-03-15T12:17:54 < Steffanx> That's because Bluetooth on Lunix (*bsd included) is shit.
2025-03-15T12:18:19 < qyx> oh Steffanx is talking some french
2025-03-15T12:18:27 < qyx> news to me, must be bad
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2025-03-15T12:24:06 < fentyl> is there any place or time where bluetooth is not shit?
2025-03-15T12:24:37 < Steffanx> Qyx:  one of the few things I remember from highschool "I don't speak french" and I literally translated "bad" using Google translate
2025-03-15T12:24:42 < Steffanx> So I don't speak french 
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2025-03-15T12:38:01 < qyx> wut
2025-03-15T12:42:42 < Steffanx> Oui oui
2025-03-15T12:57:37 < BrainDamage> it's because there's an idiom in english, after cursing, about saying "excuse my french"
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2025-03-15T13:36:05 < qyx> yes
2025-03-15T13:39:32 < qyx> The DSP is ACAM proprietary so as to cover low-power tasks as well as very high data
2025-03-15T13:39:35 < qyx> rates. It is programmed in Assembler (no high-level langu-age is available).
2025-03-15T13:39:50 < qyx> ...
2025-03-15T13:39:51 < qyx> ..assembler software with a graphical interface,
2025-03-15T14:14:23 < qyx> so this is all what that super pro capsensing IC is doing https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G7fZO/Screenshot_2025-03-15_13-13-54.png
2025-03-15T14:14:36 < qyx> looks like exactly the same capsense I was doing in the past with stm32 timers
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2025-03-15T18:02:02 < ds2> ;5C;5C
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2025-03-15T19:47:52 < jbo> Steffanx
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2025-03-15T21:30:46 < Steffanx> jbo
2025-03-15T21:53:07 < jbo> hey
2025-03-15T22:00:48 < Steffanx> gooday sir
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2025-03-15T23:38:44 < nomorekaki> early crew
2025-03-15T23:53:01 < jbo> dead man's shift
2025-03-15T23:58:44 < Steffanx> -f
--- Day changed Sun Mar 16 2025
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2025-03-16T00:49:02 < qyx> steff steff..
2025-03-16T00:51:02 < Steffanx> lol
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2025-03-16T00:57:04 < qyx> so, how to make a precise RC oscillator with the only inprecise part being the C?
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2025-03-16T01:02:02 < qyx> I am thinking about a RC circuit with two comparators comparing the output with 1/4 and 3/4, then a SR flip-flop feeding the RC back
2025-03-16T01:02:36 < qyx> TLV3502 looks fast enough
2025-03-16T01:07:45 < nomorekaki> you are tossing the integrated capacitance meter chip?
2025-03-16T01:10:35 < qyx> not yet
2025-03-16T01:10:46 < qyx> but it is not flexible enough
2025-03-16T01:11:01 < qyx> I would need to do some multiplexing magic
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2025-03-16T01:33:30 < nomorekaki> how does other guise do it?
2025-03-16T01:39:24 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G03w3/Screenshot_2025-03-16_00-36-45.png
2025-03-16T01:39:27 < qyx> looks like it works
2025-03-16T01:39:55 < qyx> others do it with a schmitt trigger inverter
2025-03-16T01:40:31 < qyx> but the frequency depends on its hysteresis parameters which is not very accurate
2025-03-16T01:41:23 < qyx> this should be pretty accurate, the window is set ratiometric to Vcc, output drive too (=~ Vcc)
2025-03-16T01:43:09 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2xdUg/Screenshot_2025-03-16_00-42-49.png
2025-03-16T01:47:57 < nomorekaki> science.exe
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2025-03-16T02:16:42 < qyx> apparently that's exactly what a relaxation oscillator is?
2025-03-16T02:17:29 < qyx> my AI friend says Overall, your chosen topology is a good choice for a simple and robust relaxation oscillator.
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2025-03-16T09:43:32 < BrainDamage> qyx: you're reinventing a 555
2025-03-16T09:44:44 < BrainDamage> https://howtomechatronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/555-timer-flip-flop.png
2025-03-16T09:45:11 < BrainDamage> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G03w3/Screenshot_2025-03-16_00-36-45.png
2025-03-16T09:45:24 < BrainDamage> rearrange the R and you've made it identical
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2025-03-16T11:13:00 < jpa-> qyx: you could do it with just a single comparator + positive feedback to get hysteresis
2025-03-16T11:14:07 < jpa-> qyx: but yeah, that is basically the cmos version of 555
2025-03-16T11:33:47 < qyx> BrainDamage: lol really
2025-03-16T11:34:05 < qyx> now the question is how accurate a 555 is
2025-03-16T11:34:26 < qyx> jpa-: that's the unvanted topology as it is not easy to precisely control the hysteresis
2025-03-16T11:34:49 < qyx> I need the frequency to precisely depend on the C (given that R is a precision, low-TCR resistor)
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2025-03-16T11:55:34 < jpa-> how is the hysteresis harder to control? it is just a ratiometric voltage divider, just like your comparison voltages
2025-03-16T11:57:50 < jpa-> probably the biggest inaccuracies with e.g. LMC555 are the less than perfect output swing, and comparator input offset voltage with is unspecified
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2025-03-16T12:26:22 < BrainDamage> the output swing of the 555 is solved with a buffer, you have to use one anyway to avoid loading the rc oscillator, so you take the logic output unaltered and feed the RC with a buffer, instead of viceversa
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2025-03-16T12:54:44 < qyx> I will try multiple approaches
2025-03-16T12:54:59 < qyx> also ad7147 or the more-bit equivalent
2025-03-16T12:55:02 < qyx> and pcap01
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2025-03-16T13:34:35 < qyx> also, 555+buffer+flipflop is 3 chips, the same as dual comparator+flopflop+flipflop
2025-03-16T15:30:48 < qyx> oh, 555 is slow
2025-03-16T15:52:22 < Steffanx> define slow
2025-03-16T16:03:39 < antto> dead snail uphill
2025-03-16T16:05:16 < Steffanx> Welcome antto. Where's your friend haohmaru?
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2025-03-16T17:47:09 < qyx> slow = about 2 MHz max
2025-03-16T17:47:20 < qyx> I was targetting something around 20-50
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2025-03-16T19:30:16 < bitmask> heyo
2025-03-16T19:46:57 < jbo> hey bitmask
2025-03-16T19:47:03 < jbo> how are you doing today?
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2025-03-16T20:38:01 < Steffanx> Im good thank thanks for asking jbo
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2025-03-16T20:48:23 < jbo> happy to hear that, bitmask
2025-03-16T20:52:19 < Steffanx> youre welcome
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2025-03-16T23:10:06 < machinehum> I'm also well
2025-03-16T23:10:31 < machinehum> Drank 9 beers
2025-03-16T23:10:51 < machinehum> On an absolute bender of a weekend
2025-03-16T23:11:53 < machinehum> ^c not working for sl is fucking funny
2025-03-16T23:28:23 < Steffanx> Slowly becoming an alcoholic or what machinehum ? :o
2025-03-16T23:30:53 < machinehum> Steffanx: nah im fine
2025-03-16T23:31:34 < machinehum> Didn't drink in all of January actually
2025-03-16T23:31:50 < machinehum> Might skip april as well
2025-03-16T23:32:37 < Steffanx> Ah alright. No need to send jbo over then
2025-03-16T23:33:06 < machinehum> Come hang out
2025-03-16T23:33:19 < machinehum> I got an idea that's going to save the world
2025-03-16T23:35:08 < Steffanx> AI kill switch? 
2025-03-16T23:35:45 < machinehum> Nothing to do with ai
2025-03-16T23:36:08 < machinehum> or killing it
2025-03-16T23:36:23 < machinehum> It's going to happen, aids spreads
2025-03-16T23:40:32 < machinehum> Time to rm -rf one last beer then bed time
2025-03-16T23:51:44 < jbo> because drunk ideas are fameously the best ideas
2025-03-16T23:53:37 < Steffanx> Your familiar with that Mr jbo ?
2025-03-16T23:53:44 < Steffanx> You're*
2025-03-16T23:53:52 < machinehum> told you
2025-03-16T23:54:10 < machinehum> these dutch know good english
2025-03-16T23:54:49 < machinehum> like wtf esl people learn all the differnt yours?
2025-03-16T23:55:08 < machinehum> e*l
--- Day changed Mon Mar 17 2025
2025-03-17T00:11:40 < qyx> jbo: that's not true
2025-03-17T00:11:58 < qyx> my greatest ideas have always been born at the toilet
2025-03-17T00:12:44 < jbo> like re-inventing 555?
2025-03-17T00:13:13 < qyx> for example
2025-03-17T00:13:18 < jbo> :D
2025-03-17T00:13:42 < qyx> now I need to reinvent a way to multiplex without much leakage
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2025-03-17T00:30:01 < jbo> paper clips moved by lego mindstorm motors
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2025-03-17T01:16:54 < qyx> parametric-wise, any 555 I've found so far is inferior to a discrete solution comprising tlv3502/tlv3232
2025-03-17T01:17:04 < qyx> by nearly 2 orders of magnitude
2025-03-17T01:17:51 < qyx> that is, offsets, input bias currents, max toggle frequency, and also power requirements (mostly)
2025-03-17T01:20:30 < qyx> but tlv3232 is not in stock
2025-03-17T01:31:56 < qyx> oh and ST's TS3011 should be also suitable
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2025-03-17T08:21:30 < jpa-> qyx: a big inaccuracy with any 555 is the on-chip resistors, which are rather poor accuracy compared to external ones
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2025-03-17T09:20:29 < qyx> they had one job to do
2025-03-17T09:20:42 < qyx> make 3 arbitrary value madched resistors on chip..
2025-03-17T09:23:37 < jpa-> i think a 555 has more than just the resistors
2025-03-17T09:23:53 < jpa-> you would be angry if they nailed that job but failed to include the transistors
2025-03-17T09:24:22 < qyx> anyway, I was trying to find a RS flip flow and then realized it is just two NOR/NAND gates
2025-03-17T09:25:12 < jpa-> i'm still unsure how the flipflop improves things, if you just want symmetric square wave
2025-03-17T09:25:41 < qyx> the RS one or D one?
2025-03-17T09:25:49 < jpa-> RS
2025-03-17T09:25:56 < jpa-> not sure how you'd use a D one in this
2025-03-17T09:26:08 < qyx> because I want precise hysteresis, not an arbitrary one
2025-03-17T09:26:24 < qyx> because that's the thing affecting the output frequency
2025-03-17T09:26:25 < jpa-> isn't that a matter of calculating the resistors?
2025-03-17T09:27:07 < qyx> with RS flip flop I get what I want using two moderately precise comparators and a single 1:1:1:1 matched resistor array
2025-03-17T09:27:59 < qyx> and I still need the some "logic" to make the output more like a logic signal
2025-03-17T09:28:02 < jpa-> but wouldn't you get the same with just one moderately precise comparator and a single 1:1:1:1 resistor array?
2025-03-17T09:28:12 < qyx> how so?
2025-03-17T09:28:13 < jpa-> it seems it would even avoid the effect of the input offset voltage
2025-03-17T09:29:17 < jpa-> i'll draw
2025-03-17T09:29:28 < qyx> https://www.analog.com/en/_/media/analog/en/landing-pages/technical-articles/guide-to-adding-extra-hysteresis-to-comparators--maxim-integrated/3616fig04.gif?rev=ab3f02eb33734e58989ac400c6ca595f
2025-03-17T09:29:32 < qyx> just this?
2025-03-17T09:30:02 < jpa-> kinda, except i guess you want single supply so one resistor more
2025-03-17T09:31:11 < qyx> https://www.analog.com/en/_/media/analog/en/landing-pages/technical-articles/guide-to-adding-extra-hysteresis-to-comparators--maxim-integrated/3616fig09.gif?rev=b8f3309d65ec42c0a5a6e44807e38fbe
2025-03-17T09:34:08 < qyx> oh this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Qk66k/Screenshot_2025-03-17_08-33-51.png
2025-03-17T09:34:17 < jpa-> https://tinyurl.com/2cc42uhf
2025-03-17T09:34:23 < jpa-> yeah
2025-03-17T09:36:43 < jpa-> if the comparator is good, i think it's output should be perfectly logic-like without extra buffers
2025-03-17T09:36:57 < jpa-> especially with the hysteresis
2025-03-17T09:37:22 < qyx> either way I need to divide-by-two, so a D flip flop on the output
2025-03-17T09:38:12 < zyp> what's this for anyway?
2025-03-17T09:38:26 < zyp> have you considered using a greenpak? :p
2025-03-17T09:38:34 < qyx> differential capsensing
2025-03-17T09:39:31 < jpa-> differential? as in difference between two capacitors?
2025-03-17T09:39:45 < qyx> yes
2025-03-17T09:40:13 < qyx> no I don't want a bridge
2025-03-17T09:40:17 < jpa-> how about a... ok
2025-03-17T09:40:45 < qyx> because I need some multiplexing magic in front of them
2025-03-17T09:40:55 < jpa-> sounds reasonable
2025-03-17T09:41:03 < qyx> and they are connected to the ground
2025-03-17T09:41:25 < qyx> actually the multiplexing magic is the reason I am avoiding pcap01 which looks cool and accurate enough
2025-03-17T09:41:28 < jpa-> you can have a bridge with both caps to ground
2025-03-17T09:48:52 < qyx> now I need to reinvent an active shield
2025-03-17T09:50:08 < jpa-> either a buffer opamp, or if you know the approximate capacitance, you can just have separate R-C to drive the shield
2025-03-17T09:50:43 < qyx> yeah considering a buffer in front of the comparator
2025-03-17T09:51:06 < qyx> which would also solve bias current requirements and make the comparator selection easier
2025-03-17T09:52:51 < qyx> hm you were right that now input offsets are not important
2025-03-17T09:56:39 < jpa-> too bad that SLG47001 is not yet widely available, it would do this in a single chip so that you could have supply chain issues when it is out of stock
2025-03-17T09:56:58 < jpa-> generic opamps & logic have way too many alternative suppliers
2025-03-17T10:18:32 < qyx> opa4325 looks like a good candidate, not very power hungry, 10 MHz, unity gain stable, sub pA bias current
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2025-03-17T10:52:15 < qyx> drawing filled circle section is gonna be fun
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2025-03-17T13:21:07 < qyx> ok I am stuck
2025-03-17T13:21:34 < qyx> sections done and there is no space left on the pcb for components
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2025-03-17T14:10:04 < qyx> starting to behavehttps://bin.jvnv.net/file/DniYX/Screenshot_2025-03-17_13-09-43.png
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2025-03-17T21:48:02 < nomorekaki> what soldering iron shape types you use?
2025-03-17T21:48:30 < nomorekaki> conical, bevel, chissel, spoon?
2025-03-17T21:51:14 < artok> yes
2025-03-17T21:51:29 < artok> but mostly conical =)
2025-03-17T21:54:57 < fentyl> conical, big conical, bigger conical, biggest conical
2025-03-17T21:55:10 < fentyl> I am just a poor SW engineer who accidentally taught soldering
2025-03-17T21:55:13 < fentyl> (mostly)
2025-03-17T21:56:48 < nomorekaki> fentyl: try some other types
2025-03-17T21:57:07 < nomorekaki> iirc conical has most limited usability
2025-03-17T21:57:21 < qyx> nomorekaki: conical 0.2/0.4 mm for smd, weller mini-wave for cables and bigger stuff
2025-03-17T21:57:28 < nomorekaki> *imho conical
2025-03-17T21:57:37 < qyx> for connectors 0.8x1.2 or somilar size
2025-03-17T21:58:07 < nomorekaki> so small stuff conical other stuff bevel
2025-03-17T21:58:16 < nomorekaki> anyone using chissel?
2025-03-17T21:58:19 < qyx> and for achieving higher soldering speeds, I am using BiSn
2025-03-17T21:59:19 < qyx> most of the smd stuff I am doing is BiSn with that hollow mini-wave tip and then hotair stuff
2025-03-17T21:59:37 < nomorekaki> hollow?
2025-03-17T21:59:47 < qyx> yes the weller mini-wave tip is hollow
2025-03-17T21:59:56 < nomorekaki> is it feed soldering?
2025-03-17T22:00:01 < qyx> you can suck pretty big amount of solder inside
2025-03-17T22:00:13 < nomorekaki> is it suck suck soldering iron?
2025-03-17T22:00:22 < qyx> and then pre-tin whole areas of pcb in one step
2025-03-17T22:00:33 < nomorekaki> or just a cavity?
2025-03-17T22:00:47 < qyx> cavity around 2 mm in diameter and about 4 mm deep
2025-03-17T22:01:22 < nomorekaki> I think it could be categorized as a spoon
2025-03-17T22:02:09 < nomorekaki> I have noticed desoldering station results in even amounts of solder in THT joints because of the hole
2025-03-17T22:02:31 < nomorekaki> it does capilary suck
2025-03-17T22:02:38 < qyx> https://no.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-iron-tips/1766887
2025-03-17T22:02:46 < nomorekaki> balancing the amount of solder
2025-03-17T22:04:18 < nomorekaki> it's like beveled cylinderical tip interesting
2025-03-17T22:06:10 < nomorekaki> no idea how deep JBC's spoon tips because of the pretinned tip but I assume it's pretty much a spoon
2025-03-17T22:08:54 < nomorekaki> no really need for much of volume for pretinning
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2025-03-17T22:18:44 < nomorekaki> https://www.jbctools.com/c210016-conical-cartridge-o-03-product-233.html no description. maybe it's a ballpoint pen
2025-03-17T22:42:11 < ds2> chisel is handy for SMT. rotate 90 to heat multiple pins and back for just one pin
2025-03-17T22:44:07 < jbo> +1 for chissel
2025-03-17T22:44:15 < jbo> also easier to get good contact than with points
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 18 2025
2025-03-18T00:32:53 < ds2> not just contact, quicker heat transfer
2025-03-18T00:54:26 < qyx> I am not objecting that, but my overall impression and work pleasure is much higher with a conical one
2025-03-18T00:55:00 < zyp> nomorekaki, only the small tip is plated, to give you precision control of where the solder go?
2025-03-18T00:55:24 < nomorekaki> I see
2025-03-18T00:55:33 < zyp> that was a question
2025-03-18T00:55:46 < qyx> no
2025-03-18T00:55:52 < qyx> he didnt use a question mark
2025-03-18T00:56:01 < nomorekaki> yup
2025-03-18T00:56:13 < nomorekaki> too much tinned area is bad ofc
2025-03-18T01:01:49 < zyp> I have the tips that came with my jbc clone: https://www.aixuntech.com/userimages/2023-06/1686638054.webp
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2025-03-18T01:02:15 < zyp> straight conical, bent conical, chisel or whatever you'd call it
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2025-03-18T01:02:47 < zyp> I broke my straight conical and haven't gotten around to replace it yet, so now I switch between the other two depending on what I do
2025-03-18T01:03:03 < qyx> oh but those must be really bad at thermal transfer, I agree
2025-03-18T01:03:06 < qyx> too chin
2025-03-18T01:03:14 < qyx> *thin
2025-03-18T01:04:10 < zyp> well, it's a jbc clone, got the heater element pretty close
2025-03-18T01:04:22 < jbo> I've said it before and I'll say it again: The only tip that gets me hot is jpa-'s
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2025-03-18T08:43:23  * antto recently bought a new soldering iron
2025-03-18T08:43:50 < antto> this one: https://www.atten.com/product/st_2080d_soldering_iron#
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2025-03-18T09:15:46 < qyx> news of today, trump wants european eggs
2025-03-18T09:20:15 < antto> shh, no touchy da eggy
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2025-03-18T09:53:44 < zyp> news of last week
2025-03-18T09:54:56 < qyx> really, I am late
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2025-03-18T10:42:21 < fentyl> did he lost his own eggs? that would explain a lot
2025-03-18T10:43:08 < jpa-> todays news is that there is a fire sale on venezuelans, and that krim is rightfully putin's
2025-03-18T10:49:12 < qyx> the last one too
2025-03-18T11:11:29 < fentyl> he already has firm place in history
2025-03-18T11:26:09 < fentyl> so, while interwebs are confusing me: does tinyusb support multiple device-side USB ports?
2025-03-18T11:30:32 < fentyl> no \o/
2025-03-18T11:31:02 < jpa-> yeah, i would say no unless you do some hack like build two separate instances of tinyusb, or make it use thread-local data
2025-03-18T11:31:04 < zyp> you can't have multiple contexts? only one single global context?
2025-03-18T11:32:07 < fentyl> I actually need to switch between one of two USBs which get active
2025-03-18T11:32:19 < fentyl> so it means I'll switch to runtime configuration
2025-03-18T11:32:24 < fentyl> I damn hope that thing supports it
2025-03-18T11:32:33 < jpa-> https://github.com/hathach/tinyusb/blob/master/src/device/usbd.c#L583   this looks like no context
2025-03-18T11:33:08 < jpa-> it does have "event.rhport" though
2025-03-18T11:33:20 < fentyl> yeah, some APIs do have rhport input
2025-03-18T11:33:23 < fentyl> some don't
2025-03-18T11:33:28 < fentyl> and whole thing is painfully underdocumented
2025-03-18T11:33:31 < zyp> please don't start sending links with no context like laurenceb
2025-03-18T11:34:00 < jpa-> sorry, i'll try to post 4chan links next
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2025-03-18T11:45:14 < Steffanx> I concluded they don't support two fentyl 
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2025-03-18T11:46:35 < Steffanx> I wanted to have two at the same time for my dual USB input audio DAC. 
2025-03-18T11:47:21 < Steffanx> Then I dared to look at Zephyr for the fun of it. The stack supports it, but the device drivers don't -_-
2025-03-18T11:48:43 < Steffanx> The cube supports it, but there the device classes share some buffers and shit.
2025-03-18T11:50:10 < fentyl> cube USB sucks because bulk of it runs in ISR
2025-03-18T11:50:41 < fentyl> that's a no-go
2025-03-18T11:50:53 < fentyl> no problem, I'
2025-03-18T11:51:02 < fentyl> ll turn on just that one which is actually connected
2025-03-18T11:51:15 < fentyl> if I manage to find out which one it is
2025-03-18T11:55:48 < Steffanx> Nah you should join the open sores community and fix tinyusb ;)
2025-03-18T11:57:17 < fentyl> I'll probably write a bunch of docs for it
2025-03-18T11:57:41 < fentyl> I already littered the opensauce space by my commits into locm3
2025-03-18T11:58:15 < Steffanx> locm3 is still alive?
2025-03-18T11:58:48 < fentyl> it's been years ago
2025-03-18T12:14:18 < jpa-> i think nuttx supports dual ports
2025-03-18T12:14:31 < jpa-> whether you'll want to use it is a different matter
2025-03-18T12:14:56 < fentyl> I guess the easiest way will be to hunt for connection
2025-03-18T12:17:43 < Steffanx> Cant use vbus?
2025-03-18T12:26:25 < fentyl> nope, vbus from both ports is connected to the same rail that powers the device, so I don't know which one is alive
2025-03-18T12:26:48 < fentyl> device is physically designed so that you can't connect them both at the same time
2025-03-18T12:32:49 < jpa-> why don't you just wire them in parallel then?
2025-03-18T12:33:41 < fentyl> more USB PHYs active, more Adidas
2025-03-18T12:41:12 < zyp> you're actually violating the USB spec then
2025-03-18T12:41:25 < fentyl> so some recent-ish cube update has reverted to generatin CR/LF pair even on Linux
2025-03-18T12:42:00 < zyp> IIRC you're not allowed to enable the D+ pullup before you've confirmed vbus is present
2025-03-18T12:42:52 < zyp> for a bus powered device that doesn't matter, but for a device with other power sources you're supposed to check for vbus presense first
2025-03-18T12:43:35 < fentyl> that would even hunting for a bus make it non-compliant
2025-03-18T12:43:44 < zyp> yep
2025-03-18T12:43:51 < fentyl> as if it was powere by another port, it would activate D+ pullup during the hunt
2025-03-18T12:44:10 < zyp> the correct solution would be diodes from each vbus, sensing each, selecting which port to enable D+ pullup on
2025-03-18T12:45:01 < fentyl> technically you need just one as the device is bus-powered
2025-03-18T12:55:08 < jpa-> well if the device is bus-powered and you know that only one connector is connected, hunting for connection should be ok
2025-03-18T12:55:32 < zyp> if you know both those things, just wire the connectors in parallel
2025-03-18T12:55:33 < jpa-> because by definition you cannot be doing anything before at least one vbus is present, and the non-connected connector doesn't matter
2025-03-18T12:55:53 < jpa-> yes, i agree, wire in parallel especially if no high-speed
2025-03-18T12:56:51 < fentyl> now that's fun and games, but the board is already done :>
2025-03-18T12:57:06 < jpa-> if firmware is not done, the board is just a proto
2025-03-18T12:57:15 < jpa-> => put some wires
2025-03-18T12:57:37 < fentyl> what firmware?
2025-03-18T12:57:39 < fentyl> this thing is modular
2025-03-18T13:09:24 < qyx> when I connected the two ports in parallel, the general consensus was "it is not totally correct, but meh, yolo"
2025-03-18T13:09:49 < qyx> then I connected then to different phys and "it is not totally correct"
2025-03-18T13:10:07 < zyp> but what usb device is
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2025-03-18T14:34:38 < qyx> uh? STM32G491 specifies VDDA as 0 to 3.6 V when ADC, DAC, OPAMP, COMP, VREFBUF not used
2025-03-18T14:35:07 < qyx> on other STMs it was definitely needed otherwise it didn't even boot
2025-03-18T14:35:22 < qyx> because of POR circuit fed with VDDA or something like that
2025-03-18T14:36:39 < zyp> yep
2025-03-18T14:37:04 < jpa-> on many devices it was even required VDDA == VDD
2025-03-18T14:37:37 < zyp> different stm32 families have different power requirements, so rules for one family doesn't necessarily apply for another
2025-03-18T14:38:18 < jpa-> looks like if you have VDDA = 0, IO pins are no longer 5V-tolerant
2025-03-18T14:42:22 < jpa-> huh, funny; RP2350 (which includes risc-v and ARM CM-33 cores) has an arm-emulator in the bootrom, so that they don't have to duplicate code when running on risc-v
2025-03-18T14:43:44 < zyp> haha
2025-03-18T14:43:45 < zyp> nice
2025-03-18T14:44:26 < qyx> I hope the use case is clearly defined
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2025-03-18T14:45:30 < jpa-> qyx: nope, you can call it yourself if you want to run your ARM code slowly on RISC-V because you don't like the hardware CM-33 core :)
2025-03-18T14:48:04 < jpa-> it seems like rp2350 may become one of the few MCUs where security features are actually reliable; first, because they had that hacking competition and are actually fixing things; secondly, because this shit is so complex no-one will bother
2025-03-18T14:48:46 < jpa-> unlike stm32 where you just need to ask it nicely to give you the codes
2025-03-18T14:49:59 < fentyl> what codes?
2025-03-18T14:51:38 < jpa-> firmware that has been readout protected
2025-03-18T14:52:57 < qyx> hm but that could be used to run custom firmware modules without linking hassle I suppose?
2025-03-18T14:53:13 < qyx> I am not that broken to use rpi yet though
2025-03-18T15:02:04 < fentyl> it is probably not that amazing, unless you have a use case for PIO
2025-03-18T15:06:20 < jpa-> it's not bad though
2025-03-18T15:06:29 < jpa-> especially the vendor library is better than ST vendor libraries
2025-03-18T15:07:42 < fentyl> its not bad, but its nothing special
2025-03-18T15:07:58 < fentyl> yet, if you compare to e.g. nordic, then nordic's only advantage is the precesence of on-chip radio
2025-03-18T15:08:19 < fentyl> ok, USB hunting code seems to be working
2025-03-18T15:14:00 < fentyl> https://github.com/giacomo-b/rust-stakeholder
2025-03-18T15:14:03 < fentyl> :>
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2025-03-18T16:15:49 < bitmask> OMG FINALLY! fucking AWS you pain in the ass you, finally fixed a problem I was having after like a week of trying
2025-03-18T16:16:25 < zyp> you're welcome
2025-03-18T16:16:30 < bitmask> :)
2025-03-18T16:23:34 < bitmask> now I gotta learn typescript
2025-03-18T16:23:43 < zyp> I'm sorry to hear that
2025-03-18T16:24:21 < bitmask> me too
2025-03-18T16:24:25 < bitmask> thank you for your sympathies
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2025-03-18T17:13:37 < karlp> "The public key should be
2025-03-18T17:13:39 < karlp> transferred in an encrypted format"
2025-03-18T17:13:44 < karlp> I wonder why they thought that?
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2025-03-18T17:33:30 < fentyl> LOL, someone just wrote me on dicked-in that only morons use datasheets because they are for marketing purposes
2025-03-18T17:33:33 < fentyl> K
2025-03-18T17:38:20 < jbo> wtf
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2025-03-18T18:17:55 < qyx> I would be pleased to be called moron
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2025-03-18T18:54:10 < BrainDamage> was that sentence generated by a LLM?
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2025-03-18T19:36:51 < fenugrec> large-languaged moron ?
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2025-03-18T20:11:30 < bitmask> anyone have a good comforter set recommendation?
2025-03-18T20:15:46 < Steffanx> Time to go comporter set shopping with the gf bitmask . 
2025-03-18T20:15:56 < Steffanx> in the wild that is
2025-03-18T20:16:07 < bitmask> I dont even know where to go for that
2025-03-18T20:16:19 < bitmask> id start naming stores but you probably wouldn't know them
2025-03-18T20:16:23 < bitmask> maybe costco
2025-03-18T20:17:31 < BrainDamage> this is stm32, we only do discomforters
2025-03-18T20:18:02 < bitmask> and full of cumforters
2025-03-18T20:42:27 < Steffanx> Welcum to the club bitmask 
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2025-03-18T21:26:32 < bitmask> ugh, why do I keep getting disconnected
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2025-03-18T21:35:23 < Steffanx> Yes why bitmask ?
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2025-03-18T21:46:00 < nomorekaki> probs windows microsleeping
2025-03-18T21:50:06 < nomorekaki> I have noticed on my laptop hexchat disconnects during periods of inactivity even when powered from AC adapter
2025-03-18T21:51:10 < antto> how else will they make you switch to M$ $kype or whatever their newest thing is
2025-03-18T21:52:35 < nomorekaki> comfuser is microsleeping regardless if you want it or not
2025-03-18T21:54:11 < nomorekaki> maybe it's on developers to use some API to keep processing time flowing
2025-03-18T21:55:43 < nomorekaki> maybe you can not expect there to be active processors available all the times
2025-03-18T22:01:42 < nomorekaki> antto: skype is the old thing now
2025-03-18T22:02:21 < antto> you put M$OS on your machine - your machine is no longer reeaallly "yours"
2025-03-18T22:03:36 < nomorekaki> they have been saying that like 20years but now its really happening too
2025-03-18T22:04:58 < nomorekaki> also you don't own a copy of the software product anymore
2025-03-18T22:05:18 < nomorekaki> you are subscriber to a service
2025-03-18T22:06:57 < nomorekaki> I have a feeling that years lasting disarray of gnome and kde wasn't "organic"
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2025-03-18T22:40:34 < karlp> lol, products I didn't know existed, comeback king: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008153931323.html
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2025-03-18T22:50:44 < qyx> ok so the usb started working properly
2025-03-18T22:50:54 < qyx> I fixed it by soldering wires to the right pins
2025-03-18T22:51:06 < qyx> instead of some NC
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 19 2025
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2025-03-19T00:37:16 < mawk> lol
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2025-03-19T01:44:26 < fentyl> antto: skype is dead
2025-03-19T01:44:45 < fentyl> in their incompetence, it joins long list of things m$ fucked up and killed
2025-03-19T01:46:39 < specing> EEEd
2025-03-19T01:46:49 < specing> they assimilated it into MS Teams
2025-03-19T01:47:00 < specing> skype's technological distinctiveness
2025-03-19T01:47:15 < fentyl> so you want to tell me that teams is not fucked up?
2025-03-19T01:47:44 < specing> I'm telling you that microsoft is metastasing through the economy
2025-03-19T01:58:02 < qyx> you better tell me why I am hungry
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2025-03-19T02:23:08 < Phantom> hi there, question about IRDA, do you need anything between the mcu and the tranceiver? can I connect a TFDU4101 directly without intermediate chip?
2025-03-19T02:26:17 < qyx> I would say yes
2025-03-19T02:26:26 < qyx> I mean, no, yes
2025-03-19T02:27:25 < qyx> it is in the datasheet starting on page 6, recommended circuit
2025-03-19T02:28:03 < Phantom> yes but no, but maybe
2025-03-19T02:32:52 < Phantom> I mean, if you look at the timing data, it clearly can not support serial data
2025-03-19T02:34:10 < qyx> no it uses 3/16 coding
2025-03-19T02:34:17 < qyx> stm32 supports that
2025-03-19T02:34:25 < qyx> you just have to hook it to the right timer/s
2025-03-19T02:34:41 < Phantom> ok thanks
2025-03-19T02:34:51 < Phantom> timers or uart?
2025-03-19T02:34:53 < qyx> just search the reference manual for "irda"
2025-03-19T02:34:57 < qyx> both
2025-03-19T02:35:17 < Phantom> you just scared me... I hope there won't be a timer conflict :D
2025-03-19T02:35:25 < qyx> uart is used to serialize your data and one timer or two (I don't remember now) are internally hooked to the UART TX to generate the required pulses
2025-03-19T02:35:59 < qyx> surely there is an appnote or a presentation for that too
2025-03-19T02:36:01 < Phantom> seems pretty stupid, but... not surprised if it is trully the case
2025-03-19T02:36:12 < Phantom> yeah   will look it up better, thanks
2025-03-19T02:36:33 < Phantom> irda ain't super popular anymore, so the documentation is not great
2025-03-19T02:36:37 < qyx> but that holds if you want to support the legit irda protocol
2025-03-19T02:36:50 < qyx> you probably can reinvent whatever you like
2025-03-19T02:37:10 < qyx> the key thing is to have as short and as powerful pulse as possible
2025-03-19T02:37:56 < Phantom> I don't care about the protocol really, I currently use a 36kHz IR receiver... it suck
2025-03-19T02:37:56 < qyx> you also need to observe some requirements of the receiver, there is probably some lock-in amplifier or something
2025-03-19T02:38:08 < Phantom> I get about 1150bps effective only
2025-03-19T02:38:20 < Phantom> lock-in?
2025-03-19T02:38:22 < qyx> oh I would call that a success
2025-03-19T02:38:46 < qyx> (wiki lock-in amplifier)
2025-03-19T02:39:42 < Phantom> the damn receiver documentation is faulty...
2025-03-19T02:40:16 < Phantom> the duty is wrong, the pulse bursts and blanking is also wrong
2025-03-19T02:40:46 < Phantom> and... it drop bits if you send more than 3 bytes in a row
2025-03-19T02:41:24 < Phantom> so 3 bytes, then a pause...
2025-03-19T03:07:43 < qyx> what bytes are you sending
2025-03-19T03:08:21 < qyx> it probably needs sufficient number of transitions to keep the PLL in sync
2025-03-19T03:08:39 < qyx> so sending 0x00 probably makes it sad
2025-03-19T03:09:20 < qyx> I owuld use manchester encoding or some kind of data whitening to be at least similar to AC and to maintain 0/1 transitions even for constant data
2025-03-19T03:38:21 < Phantom> uart, and I tried sending 0x55 over and over, got little difference between 0x55555555 and 0x00000000 and 0xFFFFFFFF
2025-03-19T03:38:28 < Phantom> the 4th byte was always unreliable
2025-03-19T03:38:52 < Phantom> scopping it up, I could see the bit being cut
2025-03-19T03:39:41 < Phantom> what I think happen is that the level filter don't like long burst of data and start to adjust "up" and ends up failing
2025-03-19T03:47:33 < qyx> could be the case, those are optimized for remote controls
2025-03-19T03:47:36 < qyx> maybe try another one
2025-03-19T03:47:55 < qyx> I have seen projects on the interweb using them do communicate other things than remote control code
2025-03-19T04:16:10 < Phantom> yeah, it work, just have to add delays
2025-03-19T04:16:23 < Phantom> so it can reset the filter
2025-03-19T04:16:43 < Phantom> so IRDA should make it 100 times faster
2025-03-19T04:17:00 < Phantom> question, does IRDA HAVE to be 115200? or it can be slower?
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2025-03-19T04:21:45 < bitmask> guess bambu labs is going with linear rails instead of carbon now
2025-03-19T04:23:54 < Phantom> not much of a price increase to be fair, and wayy better
2025-03-19T04:25:28 < bitmask> agreed, but the new machine may be much more expensive, seems to be multi tool with a laser head and vinyl cutter 
2025-03-19T04:25:44 < bitmask> not sure if they are forced or optional
2025-03-19T04:26:00 < bitmask> they are releasing info over the next week
2025-03-19T04:26:30 < bitmask> ive been waiting for the printer for the dual print heads but if its like 5k then im not getting it
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2025-03-19T11:46:33 < jpa-> can i force gdb to use hardware breakpoints on ram code?
2025-03-19T11:46:57 < jpa-> it works if i use "mem" to set the region as read-only, but that's annoying
2025-03-19T11:59:32 < fentyl> I recall there was some way to enforce HW breakpoints. once GDB got confused on the memory organization and thought my flash is RAM
2025-03-19T11:59:39 < fentyl> but I don't remember what the command is
2025-03-19T11:59:41 < zyp> use hbreak instead of break
2025-03-19T11:59:53 < fentyl> ^^ this
2025-03-19T12:20:20 < jpa-> thanks!
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2025-03-19T13:06:49 < jpa-> meh, armv8-m MPU only has "allow" type regions, no deny.. so to forbid an area, you need to reimplement the whole default memory map
2025-03-19T13:07:21 < fentyl> do you?
2025-03-19T13:07:45 < fentyl> did I miss something?
2025-03-19T13:07:57 < fentyl> ah, H7 is v7
2025-03-19T13:09:33 < qyx> jpa-: can't you use the secure voodoo thing?
2025-03-19T13:09:34 < qyx> trustzone
2025-03-19T13:10:48 < jpa-> qyx: i think it also relies on MPU to define the memory regions, unless you want to filter based on bus matrix taps
2025-03-19T13:11:50 < fentyl> it has its own region MAP
2025-03-19T13:12:14 < fentyl> TZ is basically Ctrl-C Ctrl-V of MPU + some bonus features such as mirroring of certain registers
2025-03-19T13:12:38 < jpa-> fentyl: you mean SAU? it seems that only defines what areas are secure vs. non-secure code, but does not restrict memory access by them
2025-03-19T13:12:50 < jpa-> so if you want some data SRAM that cannot be accessed by non-secure code, you need to use MPU
2025-03-19T13:12:52 < fentyl> CMRX has no need for deny areas but relies on default memory map for kernel use
2025-03-19T13:13:25 < fentyl> jpa-: that's perfectly OK for me
2025-03-19T13:14:05 < fentyl> last problem I had with CMRX was that ISR handlers had to run with privileges of secure code, TZ should be able to deal with it
2025-03-19T13:14:21 < fentyl> s/of secure code/of kernel code/
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2025-03-19T13:40:27 < fentyl> heh. tinyusb vendor class apparently can't support more than one interface
2025-03-19T13:40:30 < fentyl> FUCK
2025-03-19T13:45:58 < fentyl> no, it should
2025-03-19T13:56:45 < machinehum> Does anyone want a consulting lead?
2025-03-19T13:56:58 < machinehum> Looking for someone in Europe
2025-03-19T13:58:26 < fentyl> offering consulting or looking for consultant?
2025-03-19T14:00:25 < machinehum> Someone emailed me, they want me to build them something, I have no time
2025-03-19T14:02:16 < fentyl> I have no time too, but also no money as nobody wants to pay me for a creepy RTOS :>
2025-03-19T14:06:17 < machinehum> creepyRTOS?
2025-03-19T14:06:42 < fentyl> CMRX, C stands for Creepy in the name
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2025-03-19T14:15:55 < machinehum> You have a commercial version of this?
2025-03-19T14:22:50 < fentyl> it's MIT, so it is basically commercially usable as-is
2025-03-19T14:23:36 < fentyl> commercial version might be: wtf is this, I'll pay you money to install it into my project
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2025-03-19T15:48:02 < jpa-> meh, transition to unsecure from secure mode is always crashing
2025-03-19T15:51:52 < jpa-> and it also double-faults
2025-03-19T15:53:38 < zyp> that's how it keeps you from stealing all the sekrits
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2025-03-19T15:58:43 < jpa-> "Invalid transition flag. Sticky flag indicating that an exception was raised due to a branch that was not flagged as being domain crossing causing a transition from Secure to Non-secure memory."   but i'm using bxns
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2025-03-19T16:35:52 < jpa-> gah, BXNS must have the bottom bit of address 0 to indicate transition
2025-03-19T16:36:06 < jpa-> just when i have finally learned to always keep bottom bit 1 to avoid INVSTATE
2025-03-19T16:37:26 < qyx_> I was about to ask if there are some special bits by any chance but I considered that dumb
2025-03-19T16:50:23 < jpa-> there are always special bits
2025-03-19T16:50:34 < jpa-> it doesn't help much without knowing where they area :)
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2025-03-20T11:08:13 < fentyl> is gdb's stepi working in a way it places breakpoint on the next valid PC, or does it execute exactly one instruction whatever it is?
2025-03-20T11:08:52 < fentyl> I am seeing some really weird behavior and I need to understand what is there I might not see
2025-03-20T11:09:18 < jpa-> i think stepi uses hardware level command to execute one instruction, while nexti uses breakpoints; but i'm not 100% sure
2025-03-20T11:16:15 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/qLO/plain   the answer is probably somewhere here :)
2025-03-20T11:17:41 < jpa-> actually that was a bit confusing because gdb was resetting my other breakpoints, here with all breakpoints disabled: http://paste.dy.fi/qxT/plain
2025-03-20T11:23:54 < fentyl> so breakpoints are used?
2025-03-20T11:24:51 < fentyl> that'd answer the WTF which happens
2025-03-20T11:25:20 < fentyl> the one moment code is executing memclr, the very next moment it traps in assert checking for stack overflow
2025-03-20T11:26:38 < jpa-> are you using "display /i $pc" already to see the instructions as they are being executed?
2025-03-20T11:27:00 < jpa-> for me stepi appears to at least handle exception handlers correctly
2025-03-20T11:27:07 < jpa-> (steps into them)
2025-03-20T11:37:35 < fentyl> yes, it happens stepi to stepi
2025-03-20T11:37:55 < fentyl> at one moment I am at 0x800052e <memset+10>:       strb.w  r1, [r3], #1
2025-03-20T11:38:11 < fentyl> the very next stepi jumps to 0x80107c2 <sanitize_psp+50>: bkpt    0x00ff
2025-03-20T11:38:54 < fentyl> there must be something shady happening there because GDB can't backtrace how CPU got there
2025-03-20T11:58:38 < fentyl> OK, it misses SysTick interrupt
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2025-03-20T12:05:26 < karlp> opened up a "HID" scale from someone else, that "does what people want"
2025-03-20T12:05:42 < karlp> (it just behaves like a keyboard, but that's not relevant right now)
2025-03-20T12:05:59 < karlp> usb connectivity is on a pluggable daughterboard, so, obviously, I unscrewed it to have a look.
2025-03-20T12:06:33 < karlp> it has a m38k07 for usb, apparently some mitsubishi 8 bit mcu? can't find any mention of them having usb, but... hard to find information abotu them at all.
2025-03-20T12:06:45 < karlp> no date on the pcb, or plastic either, meh.
2025-03-20T12:08:19 < fentyl> are you surprised to find such a shitty component in there?
2025-03-20T12:08:34 < fentyl> if it is mitsubishi and 8-bit, it might as well be sourced from automotive leftovers
2025-03-20T12:09:25 < fentyl> shipping parts unlabeled is a common requirement in automotive
2025-03-20T12:09:42 < karlp> no, more that someone went an dchose that.
2025-03-20T12:09:57 < karlp> the pcb has the right brand on it, surprisingly, so it's been a fancy oem, if it was oem'd
2025-03-20T12:10:01 < karlp> british company 
2025-03-20T12:10:11 < fentyl> they probably got it cheap
2025-03-20T12:10:12 < karlp> so wasn't really expecting to find such a weird mitsubishi 8bitter
2025-03-20T12:10:21 < fentyl> and then spent 10x the time to actually make it work
2025-03-20T12:10:32 < fentyl> that's why the USB is a daughtercard :)
2025-03-20T12:11:58 < karlp> it's probably actually fixed function.  it probably just does raw serial -> hid keyboard. with some OTP for the custom vendor id
2025-03-20T12:12:21 < karlp> no usb strings, at all. and the id isn't on usb.ids.
2025-03-20T12:12:28 < karlp> but the vendor id is nice and old, 
2025-03-20T12:12:41 < karlp> must be some nice old oxford greybeards working in engineering there.
2025-03-20T12:13:26 < fentyl> that favors the "get BOM as cheap as possible" strategy
2025-03-20T12:14:15 < fentyl> even if the fixed function stack was £0.01 cheaper than MCU, it was a clear winner because a penny saved is a penny saved
2025-03-20T12:18:27 < karlp> looks like they have a pluggable option on the same cable for "rs232" so yeah, this is just dumb fixed function shit
2025-03-20T12:24:01 < karlp> fuckin lol.  if you use the rs232 interface (different option card) you can talk _back_ to the scale, for config and commands.
2025-03-20T12:24:07 < karlp> with the usb interface, it's one way only.
2025-03-20T12:25:48 < fentyl> great way how to sell you both despite you only need one of them
2025-03-20T12:26:15 < fentyl> even though i'
2025-03-20T12:26:28 < fentyl> ll be xenophobic and assume they were simply morons and not marketing geniuses
2025-03-20T12:26:55 < fentyl> $automotive company was developing aftermarket diagnostic interface for their devices
2025-03-20T12:27:24 < fentyl> it was some FT232-based shit
2025-03-20T12:27:41 < fentyl> they even placed DB9 connector for ??firmware upgrades of the controller inside the box
2025-03-20T12:32:59 < karlp> ----------------
2025-03-20T12:33:01 < karlp> -
2025-03-20T12:33:03 < karlp> -
2025-03-20T12:33:12 < karlp> fukin hid still printing shit sorry
2025-03-20T12:33:33 < karlp> well, at least I know the bar is set fuckin low.
2025-03-20T12:33:43 < karlp> and yeah, "just be a keyboard" is what "straight to excel" really means.
2025-03-20T12:36:18 < fentyl> i'd assume this is kind of shop counter weight. even these days some cash machines are MS-DOS machines of Pentium 1 class running some custom software. With MS-DOS USB is a no-go so all shit has to pretend to be a keyboard or RS-232 so you can connect it to COM port.
2025-03-20T12:37:30 < fentyl> with that I'd expect it to first emit some special non-printable sequence to let the software know weight measurement is coming and then spit out the measurement in ASCII or BCD
2025-03-20T12:37:48 < fentyl> exactly how barcode scanners work
2025-03-20T12:39:35 < fentyl> while people doing mechanics and electrics are oblivous of what is possible and what is the price tag and people of embedded are chronically conservative.... yeah, such shitty solution can exist and be sold in 2025
2025-03-20T12:40:02 < fentyl> and you may easily fail to sell anything else because you are *not* pretending to be HID keyboard
2025-03-20T12:42:10 < BrainDamage> you can have multiple endpoints and pretend to be a keyboard or provide a proper interface
2025-03-20T12:42:25 < BrainDamage> ofc that'll cost 0.01$ more
2025-03-20T12:51:24 < karlp> fentyl: no, this (particular one) is normally targetting labs.  https://weighing.andonline.com/product/newton-ej-series-portable-balances-ej-1500/
2025-03-20T12:51:31 < karlp> no price online, obviously silly expensive.
2025-03-20T12:52:10 < karlp> (third party sales for ~$155 or so though, so "cheap")
2025-03-20T12:52:35 < fentyl> karlp: labs which use labview? that's equally obsolete
2025-03-20T12:56:31 < karlp> obsolete is relative....
2025-03-20T12:56:51 < karlp> colleague here was suggesting we should be buying labview for some testing shits.
2025-03-20T13:00:57 < fentyl> Thread 3:       (9) (unknown)   Stack: 0x20088800 + 2048*SP:*0x2000AFB0 PC: 0x08011532  os_thread_dispose + 10 in section .text
2025-03-20T13:01:20 < fentyl> that looks suspicious
2025-03-20T13:08:59 < karlp> fuckin, this industruy is insane.
2025-03-20T13:09:21 < karlp> protols that use <LF><data><ETX> and then another one that is <STX>data<CR>
2025-03-20T13:09:36 < karlp> make up your minds you nutjobs
2025-03-20T13:10:07 < Steffanx> No I have to keep you guys busy with my shitty protocols
2025-03-20T13:56:46 < fentyl> so the kernel apparently doesn't like when threads quit
2025-03-20T13:56:56 < fentyl> 8 hours wasted
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2025-03-20T14:26:37 < Steffanx> That's a little creepy, fentyl 
2025-03-20T14:42:02 < fentyl> Yeah, as per my experience, things which are not tested regularly, fall apart during development.
2025-03-20T14:42:18 < fentyl> I should really run the integration test suite more regularly than `never`
2025-03-20T15:22:05 < karlp> lol :)
2025-03-20T15:45:40 < fentyl> For bulk of features, software-level testing is sufficient but this one depends on hardware-specific behavior, thus requires integration testing
2025-03-20T15:50:17 < aandrew> fentyl: https://tenor.com/view/unittest-integrationtest-bug-baddesign-crappydesign-gif-8112114 is one of my favourites
2025-03-20T15:50:58 < aandrew> hahahaha just saw this one https://tenor.com/view/coding-gif-22923954
2025-03-20T15:54:16 < fentyl> aandrew: lol :)
2025-03-20T16:05:33 < fentyl> Technically speaking, CMRX is running on top its own thin HAL, so bulk of the kernel doesn't care about the hardware at all
2025-03-20T16:05:53 < fentyl> maybe HAL is not the right abbreviation as it is already occupied by OEM's SDKs
2025-03-20T16:06:08 < fentyl> "virtual machine" might be more appropriate
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2025-03-20T17:24:38 < bitmask> I know most of you guys aren't american, but why the fuck did my package go from ohio to alaska on its way to new jersey?
2025-03-20T17:30:05 < zyp> taking the scenic route
2025-03-20T17:31:44 < fentyl> work & travel usa
2025-03-20T18:25:28 < jpa-> it tried to escape trump to canada but overshot
2025-03-20T18:35:33 < aandrew> heh
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2025-03-20T18:35:46 < aandrew> I'd be curious if it truly did, or if there was just some mis-scan or paperwork glitch
2025-03-20T18:36:10 < aandrew> couriers are pretty aggressive about minimizing cost so I doubt it'd be intentional
2025-03-20T18:36:46 < bitmask> yea dunno
2025-03-20T18:36:53 < bitmask> shit, its so late already
2025-03-20T19:00:23 < Steffanx> It's not late.
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2025-03-20T19:53:21 < jbo> moin
2025-03-20T20:01:01 < mawk> moaning jbo 
2025-03-20T20:08:59 < Steffanx> Gooday
2025-03-20T20:09:12 < jbo> how is everyone feeling today?
2025-03-20T20:09:19 < Steffanx> Who cares?
2025-03-20T20:09:33 < zyp> aww, Steffanx had a bad day
2025-03-20T20:10:59 < jbo> Steffanx :(
2025-03-20T20:11:01 < jbo> what happened?
2025-03-20T20:11:10  * jbo cares
2025-03-20T20:11:20 < Steffanx> lol i just had a deja vu moment.
2025-03-20T20:11:47 < zyp> I'm sorry to hear that
2025-03-20T20:12:20 < mawk> déjà-vous like the english say
2025-03-20T20:12:37 < jbo> hah
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2025-03-20T20:17:50 < Steffanx> im all good zyp no bad day here
2025-03-20T20:19:29 < jbo> great!
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2025-03-20T20:46:07 < Steffanx> i know right
2025-03-20T20:46:57 < mawk> don't be shy Steffanx you can tell us
2025-03-20T20:47:04 < mawk> did Richard do something bad to you
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2025-03-20T20:52:02 < Steffanx> I havent spoken to Richard for quite some time 
2025-03-20T20:53:00 < nomorekaki> Steffanx: since you have been very picky about movies
2025-03-20T20:53:33 < nomorekaki> Parasite was a masterpiece
2025-03-20T20:53:49 < Steffanx> nah
2025-03-20T20:53:50 < Steffanx> maybe
2025-03-20T20:54:03 < jbo> parasite was really good
2025-03-20T20:54:19 < jbo> mikey17 too (same dude)
2025-03-20T20:58:51 < mawk> everyone saw parasite
2025-03-20T20:59:05 < nomorekaki> everyone but me and steff
2025-03-20T20:59:08 < mawk> nomorekaki: try Calvaire it's belgian
2025-03-20T20:59:51 < nomorekaki> I don't watch horror
2025-03-20T21:01:25 < nomorekaki> somehow it's really really popular genre in streaming services
2025-03-20T21:01:35 < Steffanx> ive seen it nomorekaki 
2025-03-20T21:01:36 < nomorekaki> or just overpresented
2025-03-20T21:02:01 < Steffanx> a long time ago
2025-03-20T21:02:09 < nomorekaki> parasite?
2025-03-20T21:02:44 < mawk> it's not like horror horror
2025-03-20T21:02:47 < mawk> it's more psychological
2025-03-20T21:02:53 < mawk> like parasite is
2025-03-20T21:03:36 < jbo> mawk, if you're into new french extremity stuff, "a l'interieur" was pretty good.
2025-03-20T21:07:03 < nomorekaki> mawk: does it have secluded cabin and violent maniac?
2025-03-20T21:08:17 < nomorekaki> cabin* extending to generally dwellings
2025-03-20T21:10:32 < mawk> yes nomorekaki 
2025-03-20T21:10:56 < mawk> but the violence is kinda psychological
2025-03-20T21:10:58 < mawk> at first anyway
2025-03-20T21:11:09 < mawk> no jumpscares or stuff
2025-03-20T21:11:18 < fentyl> nomorekaki: that rings a bell of 1990s horror movie I saw but don't remember the name anymore
2025-03-20T21:11:55 < nomorekaki> all of them
2025-03-20T21:12:10 < nomorekaki> since ever
2025-03-20T21:12:48 < nomorekaki> just realized even alien movie series follows the trope
2025-03-20T21:14:50 < nomorekaki> secluded space ship, eerie vibes, "we should not do this", "let's have a look", first victim, violent lunatic lifeform in this case
2025-03-20T21:15:34 < nomorekaki> struggle and figth, one survivor
2025-03-20T21:23:16 < mawk> no calvaire isn't like this
2025-03-20T21:35:26 < Steffanx> Hm
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2025-03-20T22:45:23 < karlp> congrats jpa and kaks on being happiest in the world again.
2025-03-20T22:46:11 < karlp> though, with israel in number 8 over happiest, I'm somewhat curious as to the metrics in use...
2025-03-20T23:02:35 < Steffanx> And dutchland no 5. My arse
2025-03-20T23:28:55 < mawk> dutchland is the happiest on earth
2025-03-20T23:29:02 < mawk> it's obvious
2025-03-20T23:29:13 < mawk> except Steffanx who is the only grumpy dutchman
2025-03-20T23:29:43 < Steffanx> Hah. My arse.
2025-03-20T23:31:12 < BrainDamage> mawk really means about drug availability in dutchland
2025-03-20T23:32:14 < mawk> :(
2025-03-20T23:48:21 < Steffanx> You think? He always complains it was much easier to get his shit in la France 
2025-03-20T23:48:51 < Steffanx> Momo and gare du Nord are keywords 
--- Day changed Fri Mar 21 2025
2025-03-21T00:13:24 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2025-03-21T00:32:32 < qyx> I bet we are at the 50th place
2025-03-21T00:36:56 < fentyl> lower
2025-03-21T00:37:18 < qyx> lol exactly 50th
2025-03-21T00:37:21 < qyx> what did I win
2025-03-21T00:37:25 < fentyl> sadness
2025-03-21T00:37:27 < fentyl> certified
2025-03-21T00:37:39 < fentyl> ranked and quantified
2025-03-21T00:38:09 < qyx> Happiness ranking Biggest fall 2023
2025-03-21T00:38:16 < qyx> what could have happened in 2023
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2025-03-21T11:43:25 < karlp> fico elected?
2025-03-21T11:43:31 < karlp> was that 23?
2025-03-21T11:44:54 < karlp> in other news, our childrens affairs and education  minister resigned last night, came out that she'd had a child with a 15year old who came to her when she was a guidance councellor at a church thing, she was 23.  she has basically denied him access to the child the whole time as well, he gets 2 hours per month, supervisoed, and she's also been suing him for child support the whole time.
2025-03-21T11:45:07 < karlp> hilarious that she thought that was never going to come out...
2025-03-21T11:45:37 < Steffanx> Lol.
2025-03-21T11:55:49 < jpa-> karlp: she has experience in having children, having affairs and being an educator, and managed to combine them all - what more can you demand?
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2025-03-21T12:42:21 < krish2487> karlp: Looks like she took the "childrens affairs" pretty literally.. :-D 
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2025-03-21T13:01:34 < karlp> hrm, is there  magic value I can give to printf ot say "don't actuall do any width/rpecision, even though I gave you one?
2025-03-21T13:01:42 < karlp> I thought 0/-1 would work from man printf, but doesn't seem to.
2025-03-21T13:23:41 < karlp> TIL about the actual differences between %f and %g
2025-03-21T13:59:45 < qyx> karlp: do you have churches?
2025-03-21T14:00:24 < qyx> idk I heard icelanders have some specific religion
2025-03-21T15:56:39 < karlp> lots of churches.
2025-03-21T15:56:45 < karlp> icelandic evangelical lutheran.
2025-03-21T15:57:10 < karlp> it's not that special, just lets us have our own bishop, 
2025-03-21T15:57:20 < karlp> it was all just money/power in the old days, nothing new.
2025-03-21T15:57:54 < karlp> you hav eto explicitly sign yourself out of being a member of the national church, otherwise a portion of your tax goes to them
2025-03-21T15:58:35 < zyp> similar thing here
2025-03-21T16:00:02 < karlp> not surprising :)
2025-03-21T16:00:30 < karlp> here even still, country churces have control of salmon fishing rights and down collecting rights.
2025-03-21T16:00:46 < karlp> it can be quite lucrative to be the priest of the "right" tiny coutnry church.
2025-03-21T16:01:06 < karlp> and they have farrrrr too much land.
2025-03-21T16:01:16 < karlp> but anyway, understandably hard to take it all off them now.
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2025-03-21T16:21:31 < jpa-> meh i understand nothing   https://github.com/raspberrypi/openocd/issues/129
2025-03-21T16:22:17 < zyp> something something use something better than openocd? :p
2025-03-21T16:22:24 < zyp> ok, now we got that out of the way
2025-03-21T16:23:18 < zyp> is this about the HNONSEC bit in CSW?
2025-03-21T16:23:45 < jpa-> i think so
2025-03-21T16:24:05 < jpa-> more accurately, apcsw command is just not changing the default even though it seems it should be
2025-03-21T16:24:34 < zyp> fun
2025-03-21T16:24:55 < zyp> what's your usecase for non-secure debug? working on a target where secure debug is locked?
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2025-03-21T19:57:38 < jpa-> zyp: having a piece of secret code combined with otherwise open source userland
2025-03-21T19:58:45 < zyp> fun
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2025-03-21T20:42:28 < jpa-> feels like asking for trouble
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2025-03-21T21:37:24 < jbo> is everybody having fun?
2025-03-21T21:38:27 < zyp> nah, I haven't used trustzone much yet
2025-03-21T21:38:30 < zyp> just jpa- 
2025-03-21T21:38:34 < Steffanx> What is fun?
2025-03-21T21:38:38 < zyp> trustzone.
2025-03-21T21:39:51 < jbo> the only zone I trust is jpa- 
2025-03-21T21:41:16 < Steffanx> You're not being helpful jbo 
2025-03-21T21:55:28 < qyx> jlc resin prints look great except they are unusable for pretty much everything
2025-03-21T21:59:36 < jbo> you didn't mjf?
2025-03-21T22:00:01 < qyx> not yet, was trying resin first
2025-03-21T22:00:18 < zyp> I tried a bunch of them at once
2025-03-21T22:00:29 < zyp> sls, mjf and two resin prints
2025-03-21T22:01:42 < Steffanx> They were perfectly usable for me qyx
2025-03-21T22:02:08 < qyx> for the intended purpose, they indeed are
2025-03-21T22:02:16 < qyx> that is, for enclosure prototypes
2025-03-21T22:02:23 < qyx> but real world enclosures will be alu
2025-03-21T22:02:26 < Steffanx> Exactly :)
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2025-03-21T22:16:45 < ds2> why print it, just mill it out of billet
2025-03-21T22:20:42 < zyp> if only milling machines were as available as 3d printers
2025-03-21T22:40:58 < bitmask> me is interested in bambu lab's 3d printer + laser cutter + vinyl cutter coming out in a few days (or being announced in a few days? not sure) its prob gonna be more than I want to pay though
2025-03-21T22:41:56 < zyp> sounds like a bad idea in any case
2025-03-21T22:42:37 < bitmask> for most companies id agree, but bambu might be able to pull it off
2025-03-21T22:43:11 < zyp> could be, I haven't looked at the specifics, just headlines
2025-03-21T22:43:20 < bitmask> I wouldn't use any of those features enough to buy a standalone product, but to have the option built in sounds nice
2025-03-21T22:43:40 < ds2> but they are
2025-03-21T22:44:20 < ds2> unless you are doing something gigantic, there is a flood of mini mills from all sorts of sources (domestic, asian, etc)
2025-03-21T22:45:01 < zyp> and yet nobody I know locally owns one
2025-03-21T22:45:19 < ds2> *shrug*
2025-03-21T22:46:19 < ds2> what's the target use of the laser cutter?
2025-03-21T22:46:35 < zyp> gimmic, I guess
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2025-03-21T22:47:13 < ds2> most laser cutters have way too many limitations to be of real use
2025-03-21T22:47:15 < zyp> it's presumably a diode laser, and they seem to have the wrong wavelength for anything interesting
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2025-03-21T22:47:49 < ds2> even CO2 is very limiting unless you plan to cut a lot of plywood/acrylic (and want to deal with the air filtrations)
2025-03-21T22:48:38 < zyp> well, yeah, but cutting acrylic is actually useful
2025-03-21T22:49:10 < ds2> yes but the fumes are a pita without a whole mess of filtration... 
2025-03-21T22:49:52 < ds2> I'd much rather mill out then deal with the fumes. for the few cases where laser cutting is advantageous, farm it out 
2025-03-21T22:50:13 < zyp> eh, just ventilate it outside
2025-03-21T22:50:46 < ds2> if you're in an area w/o neighbors....
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2025-03-21T22:51:19 < fentyl> ventilate it into heigbour's apartment
2025-03-21T22:51:32 < fentyl> ffffentilate
2025-03-21T22:51:42 < Steffanx> lol i was going to say that :P
2025-03-21T22:52:53 < fentyl> gas direct injection
2025-03-21T22:52:57 < fentyl> Skoda Henlein
2025-03-21T22:59:11 < bitmask> I shouldn't have gotten a new macbook, now I have 17 chrome windows open with who knows how many tabs
2025-03-21T22:59:33 < zyp> the fuck do you need 17 windows for
2025-03-21T23:00:13 < zyp> I also have a fuckton of tabs, but only two windows; one on each display
2025-03-21T23:02:08 < bitmask> to group the tabs
2025-03-21T23:02:17 < bitmask> each window is related to something
2025-03-21T23:02:24 < zyp> have you heard about tab groups?
2025-03-21T23:02:39 < bitmask> haha 366 tabs open
2025-03-21T23:02:54 < bitmask> shhhh, who wants to learn new things
2025-03-21T23:03:17 < fentyl> sometimes I open new window for some group of tabs so I can take it over to another virtual desktop
2025-03-21T23:04:33 < jbo> 366 tabs what
2025-03-21T23:04:35 < zyp> I never got virtual desktops to work for me
2025-03-21T23:04:55 < bitmask> and I doubt I can use mac's what do you call it feature that zooms out and shows small versions of each window if you use tab groups. thats how I know what each window is for. yea im sure you could name them but I dont think its as easy
2025-03-21T23:04:57  * jbo has currently three tabs open
2025-03-21T23:05:01 < bitmask> but then again ive never tried
2025-03-21T23:05:48  * jbo zyp 
2025-03-21T23:05:52 < fentyl> zyp: my strategy is to use one for each task. so I am routinely using like 5-6 desktops with some 2-3 spare for if I need to fork something
2025-03-21T23:05:56 < jbo> how many taps?
2025-03-21T23:06:54 < fentyl> so it essentially works as if i assigned a shortcut to a specific application
2025-03-21T23:06:56 < zyp> I've tried that, turned out stuff was never on the right desktop, so I gave up
2025-03-21T23:09:32 < zyp> jbo, I recently cleaned up, so only 64 at the moment
2025-03-21T23:09:53 < jbo> wtf am I the only non-hoarder?
2025-03-21T23:10:24 < zyp> at three, do you even use the browser?
2025-03-21T23:10:50 < fentyl> I have only 18 right now
2025-03-21T23:10:55 < zyp> I have nine pinned tabs alone
2025-03-21T23:11:03 < jbo> o.o
2025-03-21T23:11:50 < zyp> private mail, work mail, calendar, bunch of messengers, etc…
2025-03-21T23:12:36 < zyp> the biggest issue with people moving away from irc is that nobody agrees on where to move to, so that alone accounts for a bunch of tabs
2025-03-21T23:13:38 < fentyl> yeah, mail, mail, mail, slack, teams, discord, matrix, this or that web-based crap
2025-03-21T23:13:52 < jbo> I have so much to learn
2025-03-21T23:14:39 < zyp> web-based > standalone crap
2025-03-21T23:15:08 < fentyl> yeah, it is bad-enough inside browser, so whatever
2025-03-21T23:18:16 < fenugrec> jbo, impressive. I try to keep it to < 20 tabs but usually average around 25. I don't know how these 100+ tab people do it
2025-03-21T23:19:23 < fentyl> click click click done
2025-03-21T23:19:36 < fentyl> just use that middle button on your mouse
2025-03-21T23:19:37 < fenugrec> I do have multiple virtual desktops however, but I've noticed that since I've been using multiple monitors + VD, I get distracted easier and go off an tangents more often. End up just wasting RAM while I have 3-4 "projects" concurrently open.
2025-03-21T23:20:18 < fenugrec>  I'm familiar with fractal browsing : ) just it annoys me enough that I don't let it go out of control
2025-03-21T23:20:48 < fentyl> lol fractal browsing, I never heard this term
2025-03-21T23:20:56 < fentyl> you can always close the whole window
2025-03-21T23:21:12 < fentyl> tonight is the DST stop night, isn't it?
2025-03-21T23:21:47 < fenugrec> true - but a few tabs I keep open because I want to keep their browse history, i.e. a few search terms on ebay ('saved searches' totally blows)
2025-03-21T23:22:59 < zyp> fentyl, hmm, CEST starts next weekend, apparently
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2025-03-21T23:25:02 < fentyl> mmmmkay
2025-03-21T23:25:40 < fentyl> so, it turns out that letting me teach people embedded SW development using raspberry pi apparently is not lethal
2025-03-21T23:50:49 < jbo> right now two tabs
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2025-03-22T01:21:06 < BrainDamage> I forget to close tabs after a research, so I have an extension that auto closes tabs after 2 days they are idle
2025-03-22T01:21:31 < BrainDamage> I end up with 10-20 tabs being open at all time
2025-03-22T01:21:50 < BrainDamage> but easily peak to 30-50
2025-03-22T01:31:57 < fenugrec> my oldest tab is probably years old
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2025-03-22T05:47:25 < qyx> I am regularly at 300-1000
2025-03-22T05:47:35 < qyx> don't even need mac for that
2025-03-22T05:49:37 < qyx> also 6 virtual desktops, each one having a set of apps and tools already open for a specific work type
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2025-03-22T18:29:30 < jbo> surely I'm not the only guy who also closes all open taps on his mobile phone web browser regularly as well?
2025-03-22T18:29:36 < jbo> current four tabs on my phone
2025-03-22T18:31:56 < specing> I don't browse the web on my mobile phone
2025-03-22T18:35:53 < Steffanx> I don't use a mobile phone.
2025-03-22T18:49:53 < qyx> my mobile phone has no usable browser
2025-03-22T19:02:46 < BrainDamage> most people's mobile browser has no usable phone either
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2025-03-22T20:25:45 < jpa-> i don't close anything on any device
2025-03-22T20:27:36 < qyx> isn't it cold in your house?
2025-03-22T20:28:19 < jpa-> i don't close the heating either
2025-03-22T20:28:58 < fentyl> furrfox for applez gets rid of stale tabs automatically
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2025-03-22T21:43:05 < jbo> PaulFertser, you around?
2025-03-22T21:43:43 < PaulFertser> jbo: hey, yes.
2025-03-22T21:44:22 < jbo> PaulFertser, I'm observing something I have not seen before using the same setup. I have a simulated RISC-V and use OpenOCD remote bitbang to connect to the simulator
2025-03-22T21:44:24 < jbo> > Error: DMI operation didn't complete in 2 seconds. The target is either really slow or broken. You could increase the timeout with riscv set_command_timeout_sec.
2025-03-22T21:44:46 < jbo> I'm fairly sure it's my simulation that's the problem but I just wanted to check whether there's some tribal knowledge I'm missing
2025-03-22T21:47:41 < PaulFertser> jbo: oh, I have no experience with RISC-V unfortunately. But it really sounds like might be the target is slow and you need larger timeout there? Or you hit an edge case in simulation where it stops responding to debug protocol.
2025-03-22T21:49:09 < jbo> PaulFertser, I'll track it down. Just wanted to ensure I'm not missing something obvious :)
2025-03-22T21:49:10 < jbo> thanks!
2025-03-22T21:52:07 < PaulFertser> jbo: welcome :) not that I can assure you it's not something obvious there, really no experience in that area at all unfortunately.
2025-03-22T21:54:19 < jbo> almost definitely something I am doing wrong because this worked in the near past :)
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2025-03-23T19:25:16 < qyx> so, anyone used stm32n6 yet?
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2025-03-23T19:35:35 < qyx> looks like hassle to work with
2025-03-23T19:42:32 < srk> heh, mipi and npu :D
2025-03-23T19:42:39 < srk> why hassle?
2025-03-23T20:00:21 < qyx> too complicated, seems more complex than h7
2025-03-23T20:01:50 < jbo> did somebody say h7? -__-
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2025-03-23T20:05:48 < qyx> what would jbo recommend for a high performance IMU?
2025-03-23T20:06:34 < qyx> g4 with cordic would suffice most probably
2025-03-23T20:09:31 < jbo> I did g4 recently and it was much less pita than H7 for sure
2025-03-23T20:10:00 < jbo> keep in mind that my H7 trauma was mostly because it had to do ALL the things at the same time (LCD, external memory, several audio streams, bluetooth, proprietary radio, user interface, blah blah blah
2025-03-23T20:10:18 < jbo> most DIY people don't "max out" their MCU so lots of problems just never surface
2025-03-23T20:11:02 < jbo> qyx, was planning on using the CORDIC of the G4 but eventually didn't happen as software was fast enough for what we needed
2025-03-23T20:20:33 < srk> h7 looks fun due to d-cache, bugs and multiple cores at some variants. I've kinda skipped that and using f4/f7/g4s
2025-03-23T20:52:42 < qyx> yeah g4/l4/g0 for me mostly
2025-03-23T21:11:39 < srk> I'm about to try implementing ethernet from scratch, at least ICMP/UDP for now, wish me luck
2025-03-23T21:13:56 < qyx> e-z
2025-03-23T21:14:16 < srk> hope so!
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2025-03-23T21:38:58 < specing> good luck
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2025-03-23T23:18:13 < Steffanx> Thanks
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2025-03-24T00:33:32 < qyx> no prob
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2025-03-24T10:06:56 < krish2487> hello folks, does anyone have a good guide to lwip and how to use the stack?? I m looking for a easy to understand and follow tutorial.. afaics there are two parts to it. developing drivers for the mac/phy chip and the second is to integrate the driver in the lwip stack and to actually use the stack to write an application.. I m looking for something that can bridge these steps and explains the
2025-03-24T10:06:58 < krish2487> process end to end.. I m hoping its just a lack of my googling skills and not a lack of such a tutorial.. :-D 
2025-03-24T10:10:42 < qyx> when I used lwip for the last time around 2013, things were exactly as you describe
2025-03-24T10:12:28 < qyx> it is high time for the embedded world to move away from freertos, lwip and fatfs, they are spoiling codebases for too long
2025-03-24T10:12:36 < krish2487> qyx: it seems things havent improved.. I mean the stack is fine and all.. but no improvement in the tutorials / documentations... :-(
2025-03-24T10:13:35 < Steffanx> What's the alternative qyx?
2025-03-24T10:13:42 < qyx> that's the problem steff
2025-03-24T10:13:53 < qyx> and I don't like it
2025-03-24T10:14:10 < krish2487> lack of viable alternatives ??
2025-03-24T10:14:32 < qyx> basically yes, alternatives exist but are not free enough for most people
2025-03-24T10:16:04 < jpa-> zephyr?
2025-03-24T10:16:31 < qyx> hush
2025-03-24T10:18:33 < fentyl> well, you should probably accept that zephyr is going to be the next freertos in like.... 2 to 3 years
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2025-03-24T10:53:04 < Steffanx> Imho the most shitty part of Zephyr is not the kernel but the shitload of device drivers with an unknown state or just being crap.
2025-03-24T10:55:01 < qyx> for me it was unability to port it to my own hardware without getting mad and breaking my pc
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2025-03-24T11:22:52 < fentyl> Steffanx: that's an inevitable consequence of hoarding drivers. It becomes impossible to test every driver regularly.
2025-03-24T11:24:08 < srk> it is possible but you need quite a lab and lots of automation
2025-03-24T11:27:18 < fentyl> yeah, I guess that nobody wants to fund a lab of size thats necessary for scale of support Zephyr offers
2025-03-24T11:37:57 < Steffanx> That's you qyx. Its not THAT hard. And often you can start with a copy of a dev board.
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2025-03-24T11:48:16 < Steffanx> It's not just that fentyl. I recall they do have lab to test drivers etc. But some drivers implemented just the basics or have errors basic tests won't find. 
2025-03-24T11:49:14 < qyx> of course, that's the usual modus operandi
2025-03-24T11:49:21 < qyx> I am no exception
2025-03-24T11:49:45 < Steffanx> Or they write a single USB driver for FS and HS devices (ifdefs). All fine, until you want to use both at the same time.
2025-03-24T11:49:45 < qyx> in the world of MVPs and time shortage
2025-03-24T11:50:53 < qyx> I don't understand ifdefing with modern optimizing compilers
2025-03-24T12:04:15 < zyp> Steffanx, that's my impression of zephyr too
2025-03-24T12:04:53 < zyp> zephyr gets a lot of stuff right, but there's also a huge pile of low quality code in it
2025-03-24T12:05:31 < zyp> qyx, actually the hardware portibility is one of the things zephyr gets right
2025-03-24T12:07:38 < fentyl> hardware portability is a curse word in the world of embedded
2025-03-24T12:18:21 < srk> I wouldn't want to deal with more devicetrees than I already do, linux is enuf
2025-03-24T12:19:04 < srk> status = "not-okay";
2025-03-24T12:41:07 < Steffanx> Lol so many times I changed "disabled" to "enabled" instead of "okay"
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2025-03-24T13:18:48 < karlp> heh, tell me about it.
2025-03-24T13:19:02 < karlp> fucking dumb as shit having them not be paired like that.
2025-03-24T13:20:59 < fentyl> complain at apple
2025-03-24T13:25:07 < karlp> why apple? device tree came from mips world.
2025-03-24T13:25:27 < karlp> I want to complain to apple now though, I can't remmeber the passocde I put on this fucking test ipad.
2025-03-24T13:25:58 < karlp> now I'm at "try again in 15minutes" and I have no idea what I've got wrong.
2025-03-24T13:26:14 < karlp> and I don't appear to have written it down anywhere.
2025-03-24T13:40:52 < zyp> to be fair, I also think devicetree syntax is shit, but it still beats every other BSP bullshit other projects do
2025-03-24T13:43:00 < qyx> so zephyr had a chance to fix the syntax and did nothing
2025-03-24T13:43:08 < qyx> copying linux is not how innovation works
2025-03-24T13:43:39  * qyx @ grumpyday
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2025-03-24T14:02:05 < fentyl> karlp: ok, didn't know DTs were actually used before Apple
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2025-03-24T15:29:31 < qyx> what was the mini reflow/hotplate?
2025-03-24T15:29:47 < zyp> mhp30, but there's also a mhp50 now
2025-03-24T15:30:24 < qyx> https://www.pcbway.com/project/gifts_detail/MINIWARE_MHP30_Mini_Hot_Plate_Preheater.html
2025-03-24T15:30:27 < qyx> oh I see
2025-03-24T15:30:40 < zyp> I'd rather get the 50 at this point
2025-03-24T15:43:28 < qyx> I am considering something even bigger
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2025-03-24T18:01:02 < karlp> .113
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2025-03-24T19:10:03 < jpa-> qyx: i have the ebay "ix5 preheating plate" from ebay because i'm cheap; it works, it is a bit shoddy
2025-03-24T19:10:22 < jpa-> i do like the hold-down spring clamps which miniware plates do not have
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2025-03-25T02:03:41 < qyx> stm32u3 \o/
2025-03-25T02:35:07 < jbo> what are we doing now
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2025-03-25T10:43:14 < Steffanx> Celebrating the creation of a new "best in class low  consumption and high energy efficiency without compromising costs" mcu
2025-03-25T10:44:28 < Steffanx> It's great. It's the best. I know it. I know the most about it.
2025-03-25T10:47:02 < jpa-> congrats
2025-03-25T10:47:20 < jpa-> will you release even better one next week?
2025-03-25T10:47:54 < zyp> when's U3?
2025-03-25T10:48:17 < zyp> sorry, when's U0, I meant
2025-03-25T10:51:47 < qyx> already there?
2025-03-25T10:52:09 < qyx> U5 and U0 were realased roughly at the same time iirc
2025-03-25T10:52:15 < qyx> but U0 is a boring M0+
2025-03-25T10:52:39 < qyx> Steffanx: they are somewhat right, 12 uA/MHz is pretty low
2025-03-25T10:52:57 < qyx> I mean, is there even anything lower?
2025-03-25T10:53:15 < jpa-> 11 is lower than 12
2025-03-25T11:20:40 < fentyl> qyx: 8bit!!!11
2025-03-25T11:20:51 < fentyl> PIC FTW!!!1
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2025-03-25T16:45:41 < bitmask> damn, looks like im getting a new 3d printer
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2025-03-25T16:46:01 < bitmask> only question is, do I get the combo or not
2025-03-25T16:46:57 < bitmask> meh $3500 is a lot
2025-03-25T16:47:04 < bitmask> $2200 is good though
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2025-03-25T17:33:00 < jbo> do you have infinite money nowdays?
2025-03-25T17:33:09 < jbo> didn't you just get a new laptop that costs more than most people's cars?
2025-03-25T17:33:30 < jbo> Steffanx doing trumpert
2025-03-25T17:35:53 < bitmask> meh
2025-03-25T17:36:05 < bitmask> I cant afford it right now but in a few months?
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2025-03-25T17:46:52 < jbo> bitmask, you're an USA dude, rite?
2025-03-25T17:47:31 < bitmask> yea
2025-03-25T17:49:11 < jbo> are you just really an early morning person or just not a west coast guy?
2025-03-25T17:49:29 < bitmask> east coast, its 10 to noon
2025-03-25T17:50:09 < bitmask> where are you?
2025-03-25T17:50:16 < jbo> I wish my customers were east coasters
2025-03-25T17:50:26 < jbo> I'm currently in switzerland
2025-03-25T17:50:30 < bitmask> ahh
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2025-03-25T18:18:53 < qyx> don't you like working during the night jbo?
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2025-03-25T19:27:22 < Steffanx> Yes, my coffee pot speaks like Trump now jbo. It makes me speak like Trump 😜
2025-03-25T19:27:37 < Steffanx> Not the voice, just what it says.
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2025-03-25T19:46:20 < bitmask> someone give me $2440 + tax
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2025-03-25T20:18:31 < Steffanx> You won't like my taxes 
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2025-03-25T21:02:04 < Steffanx> no progress
2025-03-25T21:29:34 < Steffanx> Where is Laurenceb?
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2025-03-25T21:44:44 < antto> probably collecting lolkek material?
2025-03-25T21:46:59 < jbo> shakin' babies
2025-03-25T21:47:24 < antto> bakin' shabies?
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 26 2025
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2025-03-26T00:40:50 < qyx> zyp: which two resins did you try?
2025-03-26T00:41:09 < zyp> a black one and a white one
2025-03-26T00:41:23 < qyx> I mean, exactly
2025-03-26T00:41:34 < qyx> there are like 5 black ones and 5 white ones
2025-03-26T00:42:16 < qyx> I did CBY and it looks a bit brittle
2025-03-26T00:43:16 < zyp> 8111X and the one that was called «Black Resin»
2025-03-26T00:43:29 < qyx> how does the 8x feel?
2025-03-26T00:44:25 < zyp> ah, the black one is still just called black resin
2025-03-26T00:44:26 < zyp> https://jlc3dp.com/help/article/Black-Resin--Photosensitive-Resin
2025-03-26T00:44:36 < qyx> hm probably doesn't matter anymore, there is no 8111x resin anymore?
2025-03-26T00:44:50 < qyx> yeah I can see the black one
2025-03-26T00:45:24 < zyp> I think they both came out nice, but the 8111X was too transparent to work well with lightpipes
2025-03-26T00:45:51 < zyp> here's the black one: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/piRLH.jpg
2025-03-26T00:46:46 < qyx> not very black, more like #666
2025-03-26T00:47:19 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tCfKJ.jpg
2025-03-26T00:47:29 < zyp> there's the 8111x
2025-03-26T00:47:52 < zyp> as well as SLS and MJF, and two FDM that I printed myself
2025-03-26T00:49:30 < qyx> sls looks very pro
2025-03-26T00:50:10 < zyp> too porous to paint like that, that worked way better on the black resin
2025-03-26T00:51:31 < qyx> I have read that SLS is not very waterproof but last week I have heard the opposite
2025-03-26T00:51:49 < qyx> a $customer is SLS printing waterproof enclosures so idk
2025-03-26T00:52:12 < zyp> idk
2025-03-26T00:52:44 < zyp> vacuum forming vendors recommend SLS for forms, since they're porous
2025-03-26T00:53:11 < qyx> so the gas has paths to escape?
2025-03-26T00:53:45 < zyp> yeah
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2025-03-26T01:08:13 < qyx> do we have any tool to check family to family pin compatibility?
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2025-03-26T10:17:03 < Steffanx> Doesn't the cube have such thing? 
2025-03-26T10:32:54 < qyx> I can't see it
2025-03-26T10:39:08 < jpa-> there are migration guides between some families
2025-03-26T10:39:32 < jpa-> e.g. https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/an5372-migrating-from-stm32l4-and-stm32l4--to-stm32u5-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
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2025-03-26T13:00:44 < qyx> hm is it possible to measure usart break length?
2025-03-26T13:01:31 < qyx> with input capture, yes
2025-03-26T13:06:10 < jpa-> yeah, i'd probably do input capture & DMA the times to a circular memory buffer, then when you get frame error interrupt, check them to get the time (previous time that is larger than a 9 bit times)
2025-03-26T13:06:46 < jpa-> maybe there is some fancy timer mode you can also use to detect pulses longer than X cycles
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2025-03-26T13:47:45 < Steffanx> Qyx: Never used it myself, but there is this apparently
2025-03-26T13:47:47 < Steffanx> https://community.st.com/t5/stm32-mcus/how-to-find-compatible-devices-for-an-mcu-stm32g473cb-as-example/ta-p/49636
2025-03-26T13:48:10 < Steffanx> Not sure it fits your needs
2025-03-26T13:58:24 < infisc> https://x.com/olegkutkov/status/1904864253808377856
2025-03-26T14:07:13 < qyx> jpa-: I am reinventing automatic baud rate detection
2025-03-26T14:31:15 < qyx> oh but I forgot to say per-frame
2025-03-26T14:33:26 < fenugrec> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaYirt4GTew
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2025-03-26T16:06:32 < jbo> hello
2025-03-26T16:07:04 < zyp> ohell
2025-03-26T16:07:10 < jbo> :/
2025-03-26T16:33:55 < Steffanx> lolhe
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2025-03-26T16:35:03 < jbo> :(
2025-03-26T17:42:58 < Steffanx> Gooday Mr jbo \o
2025-03-26T18:59:51 < mawk> is that a roman salute Steffanx 
2025-03-26T19:00:27 < Steffanx> It's a salute 
2025-03-26T19:00:47 < Steffanx> Also wut wot mawk
2025-03-26T19:02:21 < mawk> wot
2025-03-26T19:08:51 < Steffanx> Yes that's what you said yesterday 
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2025-03-27T18:19:05 < jbo> hello
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2025-03-27T18:32:48 < machinehum> hoi
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2025-03-27T18:56:43 < nohit> hi
2025-03-27T19:00:33 < Steffanx> Lo
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2025-03-27T20:06:28 < fentyl> warning: could not convert 'main' from the host encoding (CP1252) to UTF-32.
2025-03-27T20:06:44 < fentyl> why the fuck is this piece of dried camel shit still using 8-bit encoding?
2025-03-27T20:15:10 < jbo> what are we hating on today?
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2025-03-27T20:25:38 < fentyl> windows, as usual
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2025-03-27T20:51:12 < Steffanx> No hate today Mr jbo
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2025-03-27T21:09:45 < jbo> oki
2025-03-27T21:09:52 < jbo> I like that
2025-03-27T21:13:31 < fentyl> eh, cool. US started abducting people from streets in a way KGB would be jealous of
2025-03-27T21:13:48 < fentyl> now I guess we have soviet russia in the east an soviet america in the west
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2025-03-28T17:15:37 < jbo> steff
2025-03-28T17:15:58 < Steffanx> Mr jbo
2025-03-28T17:16:13 < Steffanx> Is it time?
2025-03-28T17:16:17 < jbo> yes
2025-03-28T17:18:36 < Steffanx> Did you invite jpa- ? 
2025-03-28T17:18:58 < Steffanx> Nevermind he doesn't need an invitation 
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2025-03-28T23:19:52 < qyx> so
2025-03-28T23:46:55 < Steffanx> idk, whats happening qyx ?
--- Day changed Sat Mar 29 2025
2025-03-29T00:07:54 < qyx> BrainDamage: do you think a common commercial 1:2 GPON opyical splitter can be used for Sagnac effect gyro?
2025-03-29T00:08:14 < qyx> I mean two of them
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2025-03-29T00:10:05 < BrainDamage> if they are reciprocal, and I don't see why they shouldn't be, yes
2025-03-29T00:14:45 < qyx> I want to play a bit
2025-03-29T00:15:07 < qyx> using some off the shelf components
2025-03-29T00:16:25 < qyx> now I need the hardest part - piezo phase shifter for closed loop
2025-03-29T00:31:47 < karlp> 22:07 <qyx> BrainDamage: do you think a common commercial 1:2 GPON opyical splitter can be used for Sagnac effect gyro?
2025-03-29T00:31:54 < karlp> I love the way you think :)
2025-03-29T00:34:15 < jbo> I love jpa- 
2025-03-29T00:37:43 < zyp> so sagnac effect happens because the angular velocity of light is constant, and if the ring is rotated while the light is travelling it becomes effectively longer or shorter?
2025-03-29T00:40:37 < zyp> ah, yeah: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Sagnac_shift.svg
2025-03-29T01:00:40 < qyx> yep
2025-03-29T01:01:27 < qyx> you basically get a coherent light source, go through a polarizer (for reasons unknown to me yet) and split the light into two ends of a coil
2025-03-29T01:01:43 < qyx> and then combine them back feeding a photodiode
2025-03-29T01:02:00 < qyx> that's all basically, it is the open-loop architecture
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2025-03-29T08:58:51 < jpa-> jbo: how much do i need to pay you to stop the love?
2025-03-29T09:35:25 < Steffanx> Pay him a visit jpa- 
2025-03-29T09:49:11 < nohit> have anyone used psrams with the octospi on these (quite) new stm32h5s ?
2025-03-29T09:50:31 < nohit> 3 months ago i made a board with stm32h523 and this psram https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/AP-Memory/APS6404L-3SQR-SN?qs=IS%252B4QmGtzzqsn3S5xo%2FEEg%3D%3D i tested the indirect mode with read id command and then tested the memory-mapped mode, all worked fine
2025-03-29T09:51:15 < nohit> after that i made another board with stm32h562 with same psram, it worked fine
2025-03-29T09:52:54 < nohit> then i made a third board, stm32h562 + same psram, and now it did not work, read id and memory mapped mode both are failing
2025-03-29T09:54:04 < nohit> i changed the memory chip, checked all connectetions, still the same
2025-03-29T09:55:19 < nohit> i then took the first board (h523) to check it again and i noticed that the read id command does not work but the memory mapped mode works (reads and writes)
2025-03-29T09:56:47 < nohit> when i look at the signals with a LA i can see that the read id command goes to a infinate loop, the MCU keeps sending the command forever
2025-03-29T09:57:42 < nohit> but today i checked it again, now i get no activity on the bus, and its not a probing issue, i verfied it with the enter quad mode command
2025-03-29T09:58:06 < nohit> i havent changed anything in the code
2025-03-29T09:58:21 < nohit> this all seems completely random
2025-03-29T09:59:02 < nohit> any ideas ? anyone have experience with psrams or octospi interface on stm32 ? or these new h5s ?
2025-03-29T10:00:21 < nohit> i looked at the errata sheet, there's lots of problems with octospi but nothing was related to in-direct mode
2025-03-29T10:00:47 < nohit> its usually that people have problems with the memory-mapped mode
2025-03-29T10:30:08 < zyp> I've used the xspi ram on the h7s7-dk
2025-03-29T10:30:31 < zyp> it took a bit of effort to get configured correctly, but works now
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2025-03-30T00:25:16 < qyx> nohit: how do you configure the bus?
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2025-03-30T09:32:18 < jpa-> nohit: is your PCB layout good?
2025-03-30T10:17:30 < nohit> qyx: based on this app note an5050-getting-started-with-octospi-hexadecaspi-and-xspi-interface-on-stm32-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2025-03-30T10:18:26 < nohit> jpa-: i think it is good enough, the traces are delay matched and the chip is very near the MCU
2025-03-30T10:19:03 < nohit> also i have dropped the speed to very low, problems still exist
2025-03-30T10:21:19 < qyx> aren't you out of Vdd range by any chance?
2025-03-30T10:22:16 < nohit> supply range is 2.7-3.6V and im feeding 3.3V to the psram
2025-03-30T10:23:04 < nohit> i had some findings yesterday but im going for lunch now
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2025-03-30T12:05:44 < nohit> one thing that i have discovered is that i need a new logic analyzer, analog discovery 2 is no good for anything beyond 50 MHz
2025-03-30T12:07:44 < nohit> im considering to get the new rigol DHO914, it has 16 channel 625 MSa/s logic analyzer built-in
2025-03-30T12:13:30 < nohit> altho i do prefer the consept that the frontend of the LA is a software on a PC, you can save your sessions, name signals etc.
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2025-03-30T13:37:19 < srk> there's initial broken support for DHOs in sigrok but no idea about LA support
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2025-03-30T15:29:13 < nohit> ok so the memory mapped mode works in all 3 boards, execpt in board 3 reading/wrting to an address higher than 0x90000000 (first address of qspi addr space) causes hard fault, nothing explains this as the HW and SW are same as in board 2
2025-03-30T15:32:58 < nohit> in-direct mode / read id command on the other hand seems to work completely randomly, sometimes the mcu goes into infinite loop sending the command continiously, sometimes it does not send anything on the bus, sometimes the command works but the psram returns 0, and sometimes it works and psram returns non zero data
2025-03-30T15:34:09 < nohit> these depend on few parameters on the commands, but not in any logical way
2025-03-30T15:35:06 < jpa-> nohit: i like kingst LA5032, it does 500 MHz 32 channels for reasonable price
2025-03-30T15:35:12 < nohit> also the QSPI settings do not seem to matter, the behaviour is the same if i change the refresh rate from 482 to 0 for example
2025-03-30T15:36:25 < jpa-> though looks like DHO914 base model is pretty cheap at 500 EUR, but the logic analyzer costs 300 EUR more?
2025-03-30T15:36:43 < nohit> yes
2025-03-30T15:38:31 < nohit> i think LA5016 would be enough for me, i dont need 32 channels
2025-03-30T15:41:39 < jpa-> yeah, i definitely need 32 channels for all these old parallel buses that seem to be my job nowadays ;)
2025-03-30T15:47:35 < jbo> soon jbo & jpa- will be old too
2025-03-30T17:00:36 < Steffanx> but will you be be old together jbo ? 
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2025-03-30T20:45:36 < jpa-> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/742609/5841    well this has to be the stupidest part marking scheme i have seen so far
2025-03-30T20:46:51  * BrainDamage laser ablates jpa-'s chip markings
2025-03-30T20:46:57 < jpa-> "What shall we write on AB5656C2 chip?" "Maybe AB5656C2?" "Won't fit" "Maybe 5656C2 or AB5656?" "Nah, I will write C1618C"
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2025-03-30T21:53:37 < qyx> they could habe used datamatrix, it has multiple advantages
2025-03-30T21:54:00 < qyx> longer part numbers, additional data, inherent pin 1 indicator
2025-03-30T21:54:07 < qyx> machine readability
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2025-03-30T22:17:09 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2025-03-30T22:24:13 < qyx> so, back in my nerd cave
2025-03-30T22:24:24 < qyx> after 4 days
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--- Day changed Mon Mar 31 2025
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2025-03-31T09:00:42 < qyx> U3 in stock \o/
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2025-03-31T10:07:49 < Steffanx> What will you innovate qyx?
2025-03-31T10:39:48 < jbo> good morning
2025-03-31T11:00:05 < Steffanx> Is it a good morning?
2025-03-31T11:00:11 < Steffanx> Do you wish us a good morning?
2025-03-31T11:00:17 < Steffanx> Do you want it to be a good morning?
2025-03-31T11:00:27 < Steffanx> What is it mr jbo?
2025-03-31T11:00:55 < jbo> I wish the best of things to all of you.
2025-03-31T11:01:06 < jbo> slightly better things to jpa- tho
2025-03-31T11:14:16 < Steffanx> The jpa- deserves the best
2025-03-31T11:14:49 < jbo> jup
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2025-03-31T18:57:32 < jbo> Info: Program finished normally.
2025-03-31T18:57:32 < jbo> Terminating due to uncaught exception 0x33070c2bd640 of type std::runtime_error
2025-03-31T18:57:32 < jbo> Abort trap (core dumped)
2025-03-31T18:57:34 < jbo> very good.
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2025-03-31T19:13:04 < Steffanx> Quality coding jbo
2025-03-31T19:21:16 < jbo> of the finest
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2025-03-31T19:43:54 < karlp> modern web dev is fantastic.
2025-03-31T19:44:15 < karlp> I added vuetify to get some components for some shit.  stil nicely packs into static files with vite build.
2025-03-31T19:44:29 < karlp> then some icons were blanks, added the material design icon font it wants.
2025-03-31T19:44:50 < karlp> now I have ~4MB of font options and it blows up trying to static files for esp32 web.
2025-03-31T19:45:02 < karlp> so I have to manually provide icon alternates like a stone age
2025-03-31T19:45:27 < karlp> apparnetly "it's just on the cdn, who cares" is normal for that aspect
2025-03-31T19:45:54 < jbo> jup
2025-03-31T19:52:51 < karlp> so I removed the font dep, nice and "small" again, but getting blanks for things like checkboxes because the font is missing is tedious
2025-03-31T19:52:57 < karlp> and there's no warning, it' sjust... not there.
2025-03-31T19:58:09  * fentyl throws Svelte.app in the general direction of karlp
2025-03-31T19:58:18 < fentyl> although I am not sure it will help with the icon problem
2025-03-31T20:01:55 < fentyl> my whole invoicing / CRM / tax tracking system written in Svelte.app apparently is 285k of JS and nothing else
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2025-03-31T20:13:22 < zyp> sounds like every modern webapp
2025-03-31T20:13:54 < zyp> doesn't matter what framework, it all gets stuffed into a blob
2025-03-31T20:14:33 < fentyl> yeah, the main advantage of svelte is that it does that at "compile time"
2025-03-31T20:14:41 < fentyl> so no DOM parsing needed
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2025-03-31T21:36:07 < Steffanx> fentyl: Does your app look like something from '99 or 2025 ? And how many fancy packages did you include?
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2025-03-31T21:48:33 < fentyl> I wanted to check it. I have apparently deleted source code
2025-03-31T21:48:36 < fentyl> well. fuck.
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2025-03-31T21:54:41 < fentyl> Steffanx: apparently it only uses w3.css and an old version of font awesome (that's downloaded online or something)
2025-03-31T21:56:08 < Steffanx> Had to look up w3.css.. it could be worse
2025-03-31T21:57:43 < fentyl> https://digital-nomad.sk/img/le_invoice.png
2025-03-31T21:57:57 < fentyl> 320 kB with cache disabled
2025-03-31T21:59:02 < fentyl> nah, 355 kB with cache disabled
2025-03-31T21:59:38 < fentyl> website JS itself is not minified
2025-03-31T22:03:14 < fentyl> I like this neat feature that if you wake up a computer running Linux from sleep and you have a usb device attached to a probe connected to it, it* will hang
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 01 00:00:28 2025