--- Log opened Tue Apr 01 00:00:28 2025
--- Day changed Tue Apr 01 2025
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2025-04-01T00:41:27 < karlp> fentyl:  svelte doesn't really help,  there's a bundling procedure that I can allegedly do for it as is,  but it's involved enough I'll do it later.
2025-04-01T00:41:30 < karlp> related though: https://github.com/BCsabaEngine/svelteesp32/pull/43
2025-04-01T00:42:42 < karlp> the ai code reivew comments there were interesting. better than I'd expected.
2025-04-01T00:48:01 < karlp> fentyl: svelte makes it streamlined to ahave it all together, but the "bundling" is pretty normal really.
2025-04-01T00:54:16 < fentyl> karlp: to me the point is that you don't have dynamic DOM or what is the name of the process of scanning the DOM for reactive elements and rewriting it on every page load
2025-04-01T00:54:33 < fentyl> bundling is minor part of the feat
2025-04-01T00:55:27 < fentyl> although I guess that due to the fact svelte can actually emit just the code that is actually used, it has positive impact on code size
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2025-04-01T13:24:43 < karlp> I don't give a rats arse about the mechanism it uses behind the scenes.
2025-04-01T13:52:40 < Steffanx> How grumpy is your day today karlp?
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2025-04-01T15:18:50 < jbo> don't worry, I am here for you
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2025-04-01T16:06:04 < Sadale> Hello. Someone posted in a local jobseeking telegram group looking for someone to work on a lidar project. They said that it's urgent. They said that it doesn't have to be full time employment. They're a company located in Hong Kong Science Park. I told him that I have connection with foreigners located outside Hong Kong and they still PM'd me so I presume that they're ok with non-local people mostly working remotely...? But I'm unable to obtain much info 
2025-04-01T16:06:05 < Sadale> from him. If interested, let me know that I'll arrange you to contact him.
2025-04-01T16:06:33 < Sadale> I guess that it's probably a startup because of their location.
2025-04-01T17:21:52 < Steffanx> Sounds like a job for you Sadale. You're a local, speak the language, perfect.
2025-04-01T17:22:40 < Sadale> Steffanx, me not interested. Many startups in Science Park die easily. If I were a contractor/freelancer it might be worth doing the job. But I'm a full time worker and I value company's stability.
2025-04-01T17:22:50 < Steffanx> If he's really desperate you can even make him pay as much those people on the other side of the ocean 
2025-04-01T17:26:20 < Sadale> Meh. I'm not being underpaid in whichever company I'm working for so I'm good. Plus I doubt that they'd be willing to pay that much for a full time worker. Those startups generally don't have much money to speak of.
2025-04-01T17:26:29 < Sadale> They might be able to pay more if it's per-job work tho.
2025-04-01T17:27:00 < Sadale> And no, I'm not gonna be a contractor any time soon. Too much work to build the network.
2025-04-01T17:27:40 < zyp> that's why I'm not a contractor
2025-04-01T17:28:00 < zyp> I like doing contract work, I don't like finding/negotiating contract work
2025-04-01T17:29:44 < Sadale> I don't like doing any kind of work that I'm paid to do ;_;
2025-04-01T17:29:57 < Sadale> Unfortunately I've got bills to pay so I still have to do that.
2025-04-01T17:30:01 < zyp> yeah, that's the main issue
2025-04-01T17:30:34 < Sadale> to be fair they have to pay someone to do that because the job is so terrible that no one would do that for free.
2025-04-01T17:32:47 < zyp> last time I did some sort of contract work, I just went and did it before negotiating with the client, and then told them «I'm done, this is the sort of stuff I do for fun anyway, so you can just pay me whatever you feel this is worth to you»
2025-04-01T17:34:00 < fentyl> it must certainly be scam, all work is done by AI these days
2025-04-01T17:34:57 < Sadale> I still don't think that AI is that capable these days. It works well for prototyping probably. Not so much for production.
2025-04-01T17:35:28 < Sadale> Probably pretty useful for hackathon or game jam or something, or cranking out some kind of MVP real quick.
2025-04-01T17:35:37 < zyp> I think much of AI is hype, but I'm seriously impressed by github copilot
2025-04-01T17:36:07 < zyp> I didn't care about it until they added the free tier, and then I figured «eh, might as well give it a try»
2025-04-01T17:36:27 < zyp> and by the time I used up the free tier allowance, I'd decided it was worth paying for
2025-04-01T17:36:49 < fentyl> I'll probably do the same as all the IDEs I've tried are somehow brokwn
2025-04-01T17:36:59 < fentyl> so... whatevs I can jump to code
2025-04-01T17:37:38 < Sadale> I still think that there gotta be another way to do it rather than using copilot or code autocompletion AI.
2025-04-01T17:38:12 < zyp> the thing I like about copilot is that I don't need to spend time dicking around with it, it just observes and makes completion suggestions
2025-04-01T17:38:29 < zyp> and at times it feels like a mind reader
2025-04-01T17:38:29 < Sadale> Usually I just manually doing copy and paste of the code from stackoverflow or example code that I found online. Then I start from there and adapt the code until it works for my use case.
2025-04-01T17:39:03 < Sadale> Also if it's an open source project, I wouldn't dare using AI for the code because I would have no idea on where the AI copied the code from.
2025-04-01T17:39:21 < Sadale> If it's commercial projects tho no one would know the code so there's no problem. :P
2025-04-01T17:40:40 < zyp> I was writing a PLL solver the other day, was looking at the algorithm and thought «oh, I need to add a check that this divisor is valid»
2025-04-01T17:41:16 < zyp> so I went to add a term to an if statement, wrote «and» and copilot suggested exactly what I intended to write: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sjDtZ.png
2025-04-01T17:42:42 < jpa-> maybe soon we will have a local running equivalent
2025-04-01T17:43:39 < zyp> it's also pretty good at rewriting code
2025-04-01T17:44:41 < zyp> usually when I port code from one language to another, I copy the original into a comment in the file I'm working on so it's easy to reference while rewriting
2025-04-01T17:45:07 < zyp> and copilot picks up on what I'm doing, and what style I want it rewritten to
2025-04-01T17:46:07 < zyp> I've ported both C++ code to rust and migen code to amaranth that way
2025-04-01T17:47:19 < zyp> but anyway, the biggest thing is I don't need to dick around with it to make it do anything useful
2025-04-01T17:47:45 < zyp> unlike almost every other code completion stuff I've tried
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2025-04-01T17:55:27 < veverak> :D
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2025-04-01T18:17:52 < karlp> Steffanx: pretty fine really :)
2025-04-01T18:18:16 < karlp> I just _reallly_ don't have a strong opinion on how the js does it's thing behind the scenes. 
2025-04-01T18:21:22 < fentyl> right, that's pretty irrelevant
2025-04-01T18:21:39 < karlp> lol, company wide email "umm, who's using anaconda? please delete or report to your manager...."
2025-04-01T18:21:56 < fentyl> what pisses me off regularly is that no money can buy a CPU that won't hog for two seconds at blank screen until Angular or React will crunch beefy DOM and search for reactive elements in there
2025-04-01T18:23:47 < fentyl> at one occasion when a webshop did not load product image with JS disabled, I made the extra effort and measured how much loading time / traffic did the JS save. It turned on that the JS was some 3x larger than all the elements it was used to defer loading combined
2025-04-01T18:23:52 < fentyl> well done developer, well done
2025-04-01T18:28:12 < karlp> meh, added OPTIONS support to return allwoed methods,
2025-04-01T18:28:26 < karlp> and this fetch request is doing the put and failing before it does the OPTIONS pre-flight?!
2025-04-01T18:58:38 < qyx> is that anything wrong with conda in particular?
2025-04-01T18:58:46 < qyx> besides that I hate it for reasons unknown
2025-04-01T18:59:13 < karlp> they annouced that any org over 200 people now needed a commercial license.
2025-04-01T18:59:23 < qyx> lol
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2025-04-01T19:17:21 < jbo> conda... holy f didn't see that in a while
2025-04-01T19:19:46 < zyp> karlp, as an april fools, or what?
2025-04-01T19:21:43 < zyp> oh, no, old news
2025-04-01T19:22:44 < zyp> conda always seemed to me like «how to fuck up your python experience and be miserable», so I never paid it much attention
2025-04-01T19:23:36 < zyp> cadquery tried luring me into it a couple of years ago, but then they managed to publish it on pypi anyway
2025-04-01T19:31:15 < fentyl> is it the same as anaconda?
2025-04-01T19:31:26 < fentyl> that used to install fedora core back in 2000s?
2025-04-01T19:32:02 < zyp> I don't think so
2025-04-01T19:32:35 < fentyl> i have an appointment in 30 minutes with note: "M"
2025-04-01T19:32:37 < fentyl> and nothing else
2025-04-01T19:32:45 < zyp> AIUI it's a python packaging system that says «fuck the regular python packaging infrastructure, let's do it our own way instead»
2025-04-01T19:33:32 < zyp> and AIUI it began because the python packaging infrastructure at the time couldn't bundle binary dependencies or something
2025-04-01T19:33:38 < zyp> that's not an issue nowadays
2025-04-01T19:41:14 < fentyl> fucking automotive morons see the defacto impossibility of learning their tech stack without any paid training as an advantage
2025-04-01T19:41:17 < fentyl> let them burn
2025-04-01T19:47:19 < qyx> oh yes cadquery
2025-04-01T19:48:35 < zyp> cadquery/build123d is great
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2025-04-01T20:06:05 < bitmask> cursor is actually pretty nice
2025-04-01T20:08:56 < srk> Better Performance CadQuery scripts can build STL, STEP, AMF and 3MF faster than OpenSCAD.
2025-04-01T20:08:59 < srk> :))
2025-04-01T20:09:19 < srk> like on multiple cores faster!?
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2025-04-01T20:35:11 < Steffanx> openscad cant even build/export STEP
2025-04-01T20:35:41 < aandrew> wow really
2025-04-01T20:35:58 < aandrew> that seems like a pretty critical thing, exporting to step
2025-04-01T20:37:01 < Steffanx> The open sores way is openscad -> freecad -> step
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2025-04-01T20:41:22 < jpa-> and when you do that, you can't use the fancier openscad features
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2025-04-01T20:42:06 < jpa-> but in the end it is all just the same, cadquery uses cascade like freecad does
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2025-04-01T21:40:14 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, I just appreciate not having to learn a new language to use it
2025-04-01T21:40:41 < qyx> I trashed openscad
2025-04-01T21:41:06 < qyx> looks very cool on first sight and for simple objects
2025-04-01T21:45:09 < zyp> it's a question of what you're designing
2025-04-01T21:46:09 < zyp> if you're doing something with a bunch of weird shapes that's annoying to describe, designing it graphically is much faster
2025-04-01T21:47:09 < zyp> but for something parameterizable or that builds upon a bunch of input data, something like build123d is great
2025-04-01T21:47:58 < zyp> I did a bunch of test jig stuff in build123d
2025-04-01T21:49:57 < fentyl> I did both openscad and freecad and I like graphic modeling a tad bit more, just because I used to be a CAD SW developer, so I've been forced to work with this kind of software
2025-04-01T21:51:39 < zyp> I grabbed pcb hole and testpoint data from fabrication outputs and had build123d make drawings for both the pogo pcbs and the acrylic panels for the jigs
2025-04-01T21:51:53 < zyp> as well as a 3d render of how it'd look
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2025-04-01T21:54:49 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ao4cs.png https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GGNRJ.png
2025-04-01T22:00:57 < jpa-> nowadays i just use freecad and manual edits, but i used to do automatic workflows like that and it's nice when you bother to do it
2025-04-01T22:01:44 < zyp> I'm tempted to do a fully 3d-printable testjig generator
2025-04-01T22:05:03 < zyp> and yeah, I've got a coworker that's recently been doing a bunch of simple jigs and stuff in freecad
2025-04-01T22:05:20 < zyp> not testjigs but like 6-pin programming jigs for small pcbs
2025-04-01T23:23:31 < qyx> I want a basic testjig
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2025-04-01T23:24:20 < qyx> also a basic X*Y switching matrix and some instruments
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2025-04-02T12:21:56 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I think my first experience with *conda was a cadquery thing, but agreed, thankfully it now "just works normally"
2025-04-02T12:37:51 < qyx> helo innovators
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2025-04-02T16:26:51 < Steffanx> 250 Hello qyx
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2025-04-02T16:52:38 < qyx> 403 nowai
2025-04-02T16:53:03 < qyx> also, I successfully abused CAN transceivers for UART comms
2025-04-02T16:53:42 < qyx> except that doing any serious UART on lunex is pain
2025-04-02T17:04:45 < karlp> relevant: https://github.com/hatlabs/kitfg
2025-04-02T17:04:54 < karlp> I've seen another one from a little while ago, not quite as new.
2025-04-02T17:05:14 < karlp> yeah, this one: https://tinylabs.io/openfixture/
2025-04-02T17:09:36 < srk> neato
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2025-04-02T17:51:18 < karlp> fuckin cors preflight bullshit
2025-04-02T18:17:47 < karlp> I accept the options, they send teh PUT, and then after further validation when they start sending me the file, I want to reject it, 4xx whatever, and firefox and chrome both just treat that as "suck it, CORS failed" and won't give me the response with the json rest reply in it.
2025-04-02T18:18:16 < karlp> I've added "allow-lol: *" header bullshit, just... allow it!
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2025-04-02T20:16:01 < bitmask> i hate my ISP
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2025-04-02T20:18:17 < Steffanx> I hate hate, bitmask 
2025-04-02T20:18:40 < bitmask> ok, I dislike my isp
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2025-04-02T20:25:46 < Steffanx> Whats the reason for this Mr bitmask ?
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2025-04-02T20:29:07 < fentyl> wadda wadda
2025-04-02T20:29:34 < fentyl> why the USB stack processes the request with no error and then stops processing further requests?
2025-04-02T20:46:04 < jpa-> it's had enough
2025-04-02T20:46:38 < fentyl> yeah, but there are other ways of expressing that
2025-04-02T20:47:04 < fentyl> it could strike, contact union and demand something, establish a political party... not just stop communicating
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2025-04-02T20:48:05 < qyx> it is ghosting you
2025-04-02T20:48:31 < qyx> the worst of all punishments
2025-04-02T20:49:07 < jpa-> i've tried to be a responsible adult lately and tell jbo that i'm busy instead of just ghosting
2025-04-02T20:49:25 < jpa-> maybe suggest to your USB stack that it does the same, says its busy
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2025-04-02T22:39:49 < jbo> mhm
2025-04-02T22:51:49 < Steffanx> Hm
2025-04-02T22:52:40 < Steffanx> I figured you're playing hard to get, jpa- 
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2025-04-03T02:30:24 < qyx> listening to italian metal trying to resolve hungarian freertos issues :S
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2025-04-03T08:12:24 < jpa-> heh, i read the ST mail first as "turkey gesture recognition" instead of "turnkey gesture recognition"
2025-04-03T08:12:28 < jpa-> that would have been something new
2025-04-03T08:14:31 < antto> can a turkey make the middle finger gesture?! o_O
2025-04-03T08:15:01 < antto> and can ST recognize it
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2025-04-03T08:45:59 < qyx> so where is ublox manufactured, who knows?
2025-04-03T08:47:54 < fentyl> china :>
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2025-04-03T11:41:21 < srk> haha https://www.analog.com/en/_/media/analog/en/evaluation-board-images/images/eval-adau1787z.png
2025-04-03T11:48:49 < zyp> what about it?
2025-04-03T11:49:41 < zyp> looks a bit «how many kinds of switches can we fit into this design?»
2025-04-03T11:53:17 < srk> and melt one!
2025-04-03T11:54:04 < srk> bottomleftmost fancy one
2025-04-03T11:54:55 < srk> looks like the first sigma dsp that can do more than 96khz
2025-04-03T12:01:24 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2025-04-03T12:12:46 < jpa-> meh, what is going on.. openocd "profile 1 foobar.dat" creates foobar.dat, but the contents are mostly just 0
2025-04-03T12:12:57 < jpa-> mdw 0xE000101c   shows that PCSR is working ok
2025-04-03T12:13:33 < jpa-> but.. then also gprof is bullshitting me, when i run  "gprof firmware.elf foobar.dat"  it gives random functions from the file
2025-04-03T12:16:58 < jpa-> hmm, specifying address range seems to help
2025-04-03T12:20:11 < jpa-> seems that without range, it picks a silly large bucket size and then the address is only reported with 1kB accuracy or something
2025-04-03T12:25:32 < zyp> that's PC sampling over SWD?
2025-04-03T12:27:06 < zyp> it just does equal size buckets? not something more clever like break it down along symbol boundaries like orbtop?
2025-04-03T12:38:13 < jpa-> seems so
2025-04-03T12:38:22 < jpa-> i think that's the gprof format
2025-04-03T12:38:46 < jbo> good morning
2025-04-03T12:38:56 < jpa-> i wish rp2350 had swo.. or more pins so that i could use the 4-bit trace port
2025-04-03T12:40:27 < zyp> doesn't it support 1-bit sync trace?
2025-04-03T12:40:39 < zyp> (two pins are easier to spare than five)
2025-04-03T12:42:02 < jpa-> might be worth checking
2025-04-03T12:42:35 < zyp> I've never seen a target that supports 4-bit, but not 2-bit or 1-bit
2025-04-03T12:55:56 < qyx> I am imagining myself as a CEO of a small company with 10 employees
2025-04-03T12:56:07 < zyp> and you're all 10?
2025-04-03T12:56:16 < qyx> and a box full of lexaurin on my right-hand shelf under the desk
2025-04-03T12:56:22 < qyx> *in
2025-04-03T12:56:55 < jbo> qyx, literally jbo
2025-04-03T12:57:16 < qyx> I am genuinely drained, half of the brain is missing
2025-04-03T13:09:55 < qyx> I write an email, a phone call follows 5 minutes after that "oh you just emailed me asking.. " YES OMG you can hit the REPLY button
2025-04-03T13:10:25 < qyx> unrelated, I estimated delivering a thing by the end of the work week
2025-04-03T13:10:26 < jbo> I found that people like to do that if they want to avoid a paper trail
2025-04-03T13:11:07 < qyx> a customer calls asking if I really deliver on friday
2025-04-03T13:23:09 < Steffanx> Fuck sending 10 emails for something that can be solved with a 1 minute call. Or when there is some time pressure.
2025-04-03T13:24:45 < Steffanx> Just make the call and send a confirmation email when decisions have been made for the paper trail.
2025-04-03T13:25:26 < Steffanx> *Confirmation/summary/whatever
2025-04-03T13:27:38 < Steffanx> Clients can't read anyway..
2025-04-03T13:29:43 < qyx> no, phone call introduces burden to the work flow
2025-04-03T13:30:08 < qyx> I don't need immediate answer and I definitely can write an email much faster than calling someone
2025-04-03T13:52:08 < Steffanx> Time for a personal assistant qyx
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 04 2025
2025-04-04T00:28:20 < qyx> when I am not adding a 10pin cortex debug connector to the next board because of space reasons, tell me I am dumb
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2025-04-04T00:57:54 < zyp> so, what are you adding?
2025-04-04T00:58:20 < qyx> test pads
2025-04-04T00:59:55 < zyp> you know, if you laid out those test pads in a particular pattern, you could get an off the shelf cable to connect to them
2025-04-04T00:59:58 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NjEyT.JPG
2025-04-04T01:00:59 < qyx> no.
2025-04-04T01:02:16 < zyp> enjoy making a custom jig then :)
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2025-04-04T07:28:07 < jpa-> qyx: been there, done that; it is not that bad
2025-04-04T07:28:27 < jpa-> especially if you can make the test pads small THTs (like 0.3mm drill and no soldermask), then sensepeeks will stay in place nicely
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2025-04-04T13:31:37 < tomeaton17> hello
2025-04-04T13:53:27 < Steffanx> Hello Mr Eaton. Long time no see
2025-04-04T13:54:15 < Steffanx> Did you kill your British comrade Laurenceb in the mean time? Haven't seen him for a while either 
2025-04-04T13:58:49 < tomeaton17> Steffanx I suspect he got taken for reeducation by Starmer's secret police judging by his views
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2025-04-04T14:02:16 < qyx> so I have a python opening a tun device
2025-04-04T14:02:34 < qyx> and I correctly send udp packets over that device, I can see them coming out using tcpdump
2025-04-04T14:03:00 < qyx> but when I bind a udp socket to a port and tun device address, I can not receive any data
2025-04-04T14:03:06 < qyx> both with python and socat
2025-04-04T14:03:11 < qyx> whats wrong
2025-04-04T14:08:55 < zyp> tried binding to 0.0.0.0?
2025-04-04T14:09:38 < qyx> udp        0      0 :::52000                :::*                                
2025-04-04T14:10:32 < zyp> tried sending to the right addr?
2025-04-04T14:10:33 < qyx> also
2025-04-04T14:10:34 < qyx> udp        0      0 fd00:dead:beef::1:52000 :::*                                
2025-04-04T14:11:02 < qyx> 11:10:55.385095 IP6 fd00:dead:beef::10.52001 > fd00:dead:beef::1.52000: UDP, length 4
2025-04-04T14:11:08 < qyx> (from tcpdump)
2025-04-04T14:12:09 < qyx> I probably tried everything
2025-04-04T14:17:05 < zyp> what does `ip addr` on the tun interface say?
2025-04-04T14:17:59 < qyx> 6: nbus: <POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 500 link/none inet6 fd00:dead:beef::1/96 scope global 
2025-04-04T14:18:23 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/yJsOc
2025-04-04T14:18:23 < zyp> got any active firewall rules?
2025-04-04T14:19:28 < qyx> that's an interesting question, I have set everything to accept
2025-04-04T14:44:56 < qyx> I have flushed it, didn't help
2025-04-04T14:55:30 < qyx> oh
2025-04-04T14:55:31 < qyx> 11:54:40.230036 IP6 (hlim 64, next-header UDP (17) payload length: 12) fd00:dead:beef::10.52001 > fd00:dead:beef::1.52000: [bad udp cksum 0x0000 -> 0x6f7f!] UDP, length 4
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2025-04-04T15:47:02 < qyx> yeah bad udb checksum was the cause
2025-04-04T15:47:28 < qyx> interesting that icmp works with bad checksum but udp doesn't
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