--- Log opened Fri Aug 05 21:04:01 2011
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2011-08-05T21:04:22 <+izua> ah, you found it.
2011-08-05T21:04:27 < jpa-> hello :)
2011-08-05T21:04:38 <+izua> hey.
2011-08-05T21:05:05 <+izua> ain't a lot of activity here, usually, but sometimes there are on-topic discussions
2011-08-05T21:05:38 < Steffanx> Mwah, more off-topic
2011-08-05T21:05:51 < Steffanx> Like which mushrooms Dekar should eat
2011-08-05T21:06:21 <+izua> mushrooms he picked up in a park.
2011-08-05T21:06:25 <+izua> at least i pick them in the woods.
2011-08-05T21:06:35 <+izua> i wonder if he's dead (yet)
2011-08-05T21:06:50  * izua pokes dekar with his poking thing
2011-08-05T21:09:41 < jpa-> i made a silly gpio-wrapper one day: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/gpio.h
2011-08-05T21:11:14 <+izua> heh
2011-08-05T21:11:22 <+izua> that's bound to be faster than those struct parsers
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2011-08-08T16:22:19 < dekar_> izua, quartus II seems a bit retarded - it constantly tells me how I don't have licensed threaded compilation, yet it generates 200% cpu load on my dualcore
2011-08-08T16:23:39 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-08T16:28:47 < dekar_> Quartus II looks pretty overworked to me, I did like three clicks ten minutes ago and it has been working on something since then
2011-08-08T16:33:29 < Steffanx> Which version do you use btw?
2011-08-08T16:33:33 < Steffanx> Linux or windows?
2011-08-08T16:34:36 < dekar_> Linux
2011-08-08T16:35:58 < dekar_> I don't use windows, I probably would if I had to, but I don't
2011-08-08T17:03:59 <+izua> dekar_: heh
2011-08-08T17:04:07 < Steffanx> I love it when you  can solve hw issues with software :)
2011-08-08T17:04:14 <+izua> as long as you use it only for compiling/floorplanning/etc, you're safe.
2011-08-08T17:04:17 <+izua> dekar_: also
2011-08-08T17:04:25 <+izua> help me out with the buildtree for a usb project
2011-08-08T17:04:33 <+izua> i looked through the whole deal and it's horrible
2011-08-08T17:04:44 <+izua> i even tried loading the supplied projects in truestudio and ride.
2011-08-08T17:04:45 < dekar_> buildtree?
2011-08-08T17:05:04 <+izua> the file structure needed for a build?
2011-08-08T17:05:34 <+izua> at some point i even dumped everything in one dir >.<
2011-08-08T17:05:39 < dekar_> uhm I just extracted the usb fw lib into my build folder
2011-08-08T17:05:53 <+izua> huh.
2011-08-08T17:06:36 <+izua> did you build it as a static lib?
2011-08-08T17:07:11 < dekar_> I don't think I do, I used to do that though
2011-08-08T17:07:56 < dekar_> nope, just compiling them
2011-08-08T17:08:16 < dekar_> you have to do some defines if you want the fw lib to compile properly
2011-08-08T17:08:36 < dekar_> I pass them to GCC in my makefile
2011-08-08T17:08:40 < dekar_> CFLAGS += -D STM32F10X_MD
2011-08-08T17:08:48 < dekar_> CFLAGS += -D USE_STDPERIPH_DRIVER
2011-08-08T17:09:03 <+izua> hm
2011-08-08T17:09:06 <+izua> must be something with my makefile then
2011-08-08T17:09:09 < dekar_> CFLAGS += -D USE_STM3210B_EVAL (I actually wrote my own for the ET eval board)
2011-08-08T17:09:24 <+izua> uh
2011-08-08T17:09:28 <+izua> what are those compile flags anyway
2011-08-08T17:09:34 <+izua> USE_SOMEBOARD
2011-08-08T17:09:45 <+izua> just a bunch of other defines so you'd use friendly names for leds and such?
2011-08-08T17:10:10 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-08T17:12:48 <+izua> dekar_: how's your scottish guy doing?
2011-08-08T17:13:07 <+izua> the final user of this welder controller thingie i'm building has some serious issues with math
2011-08-08T17:13:14 < dekar_> lol, he's in scotland mostly
2011-08-08T17:13:31 <+izua> he wants to make the software in such a manner that he can enter a speed and a time while that speed is maintained
2011-08-08T17:13:42 <+izua> but he also wants to enter the distance of travel.
2011-08-08T17:13:46 < dekar_> I can give you my build environment later - no time to remove the company related stuff atm
2011-08-08T17:14:02 <+izua> which, ahem, may or may not be equal to the speed*time.
2011-08-08T17:14:18 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-08T17:14:41 <+izua> this whole deal with timings, has to syncwith a separate, industrial welding psu
2011-08-08T17:14:47 < dekar_> that's easy, teleportation solves the problem
2011-08-08T17:14:52 <+izua> but he can't freaking understand that speed*time=distance
2011-08-08T17:14:54 < dekar_> just charge more :)
2011-08-08T17:14:59 <+izua> for what?
2011-08-08T17:15:06 <+izua> i can't make it so that he can specify all three
2011-08-08T17:15:06 < dekar_> adding teleportation :)
2011-08-08T17:15:22 <+izua> i can add portals heh
2011-08-08T17:15:24 < dekar_> make it go slow and still finish fast
2011-08-08T17:15:53 <+izua> can't do that, because of some welding things involved
2011-08-08T17:16:07 <+izua> not exactly sure :p
2011-08-08T17:16:30 <+izua> and he doesn't want to change the times either (or let the controller figure out the times)
2011-08-08T17:16:40 <+izua> because then, he'll have to set those times separately on the psu
2011-08-08T17:17:23 <+izua> oh
2011-08-08T17:17:24 <+izua> almost forgot
2011-08-08T17:17:27 <+izua> have you nommed your shrooms?
2011-08-08T17:19:24 <+izua> found these pics the other days
2011-08-08T17:19:26 <+izua> http://izua.ro/b/all/IMAG0282.jpg
2011-08-08T17:19:28 <+izua> http://izua.ro/b/all/IMAG0283.jpg
2011-08-08T17:19:51 <+izua> popular name, fawn's leg
2011-08-08T17:21:34 <+izua> i think it's also known as a parasol
2011-08-08T17:21:39 <+izua> (not sure if it's the same)
2011-08-08T17:29:07 < dekar_> the shrooms had a bunch of maggots inside, so I didn't feel like eating them :/
2011-08-08T17:36:12 < Laurenceb> badger badger badger mushroom mushroom
2011-08-08T17:37:59 < Steffanx> Haha dekar_ :P
2011-08-08T17:38:20 < Steffanx> maggots won't kill you :)
2011-08-08T17:38:44 < dekar_> Altera is so frickin' unspecific about the licenses :/ "You can evaluate an IP core in simulation and in hardware until you are satisfied with its functionality and performance. Some IP cores require that you purchase a license for the IP core when you want to take your design to production."
2011-08-08T17:39:06 < Steffanx> Great isn't?
2011-08-08T17:39:06 < dekar_> That is taken from the documentation of the one single IP core I want to use
2011-08-08T17:39:24 < dekar_> So _do_ I have to license it?
2011-08-08T17:39:25 < Steffanx> When you ask about in to fora you'll get another cryptic answer :)
2011-08-08T17:39:36 < Steffanx> *about it on
2011-08-08T17:39:49 < dekar_> totally fucked up
2011-08-08T17:40:13 < dekar_> I feel like red tape will seriously slow me down on that project
2011-08-08T17:46:41 < dekar_> Steffanx, well I guess I'll have to resort to spamming them till I get an answer
2011-08-08T17:50:09 < Steffanx> !@#$%ˆ&*O It's getting really annoying now
2011-08-08T17:50:33 < Steffanx> For some reason the st-link/stlink software/target stops working properly
2011-08-08T17:51:01 < Steffanx> I have to turn of my power supply and turn it on again and reconnect before it works again
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2011-08-08T18:09:14 <+izua> he doesn't know about opencores.org, does he?
2011-08-08T18:18:00 < Steffanx> Hmpf
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2011-08-08T19:26:34 < Steffanx> You know opencores.org ?
2011-08-08T19:26:38 < Steffanx> @ dekar_
2011-08-08T19:30:05 < dekar_> haven't tried it, visited it several times though
2011-08-08T19:34:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, I don't think it'd help me
2011-08-08T19:34:45 < Steffanx> Not?
2011-08-08T19:35:43 < jpa-> you need some altera ip cores to use e.g. the built-in M4K ram modules
2011-08-08T19:36:03 < dekar_> Steffanx, I need XAUI
2011-08-08T19:36:57 < jpa-> dekar_: but obviously, you are evaluating whether the cores help your product succeed in production.. and maintain the marketplace.. and to establish the total-cost-of-ownership over product lifetime; only then can you decide whether you want the license or not
2011-08-08T19:43:09 < dekar_> jpa-, I just want to use the transceivers to output XAUI encoded data, don't really care about anything else
2011-08-08T19:43:17 < dekar_> it is just supposed to generate patterns
2011-08-08T19:57:17 < Steffanx> ARgh, stupid sensor
2011-08-08T19:57:32 < Steffanx> It seems to give a good signal, but shifted 180 degrees
2011-08-08T19:59:09 < dekar_> Still abusing those ultrasonic sensors? :D
2011-08-08T19:59:28 < Steffanx> I don't abuse them
2011-08-08T19:59:55 < Steffanx> but it seems i have to reverse the wiring :(
2011-08-08T19:59:56 < dekar_> I won't tell anyone ;)
2011-08-08T20:00:22 < Steffanx> I connected all sensors like this, so i don't understand why this one screws with me
2011-08-08T20:02:52 < jpa-> which sensors do you use?
2011-08-08T20:03:56 < jpa-> (just out of interest, i'm trying out utec4018 for underwater sonar myself)
2011-08-08T20:04:07 < Steffanx> One moment
2011-08-08T20:04:27 < Steffanx> http://www.prowave.com.tw/english/products/ut/ep/40ep125.htm these
2011-08-08T20:05:34 < jpa-> do you have your driver schematics somewhere, also? :P
2011-08-08T20:06:40 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/anemometer.sch-20110808-190633.png
2011-08-08T20:06:55 < Steffanx> I can destroy my own hw with this :)
2011-08-08T20:08:27 < jpa-> hmm.. that is what i tried at first, but the transformer seemed to always get a bit of DC, which was then released later and masked the sensor output for ~10ms
2011-08-08T20:09:25 < Steffanx> DC? Haven't seen that
2011-08-08T20:10:00 < Steffanx> Here it rings for < 1ms
2011-08-08T20:11:07 < jpa-> maybe the problem was with the transformer i used
2011-08-08T20:11:08 < Steffanx> The transformer is a matched transformer, also from prowave
2011-08-08T20:11:08 < Steffanx> http://www.prowave.com.tw/english/products/sr/transf.htm
2011-08-08T20:11:28 < jpa-> mine was just a random audio transformer from a modem
2011-08-08T20:11:42 < Steffanx> Actually is not 100% matched, but.. it works
2011-08-08T20:12:58 < jpa-> where can you buy the prowave stuff?
2011-08-08T20:13:07 < Steffanx> I bought it from farnell
2011-08-08T20:13:15 < Steffanx> They are quite expensive, but i didn't pay ):
2011-08-08T20:13:26 < Steffanx> About 13euro each
2011-08-08T20:13:39 < jpa-> hmph, they don't have the underwater type
2011-08-08T20:15:30 < jpa-> though now i'm simply using a bit more complex driver.. http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/ultrasonic2.png
2011-08-08T20:16:12 < Steffanx> Oh, yay :)
2011-08-08T20:16:19 < jpa-> which gives about 1ms of ringing: http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/ultrasonic_pykala.png  (ignore the steps, they are artefacts of the test code)
2011-08-08T20:17:10 < Steffanx> I also dont really care about ringing, as long as it's less than 2ms :)
2011-08-08T20:17:21 < Steffanx> I send with one, and measure with another
2011-08-08T20:17:39 < Steffanx> I don't use them for ultrasonic ranging
2011-08-08T20:18:46 < jpa-> i care a lot about ringing, as underwater 1ms is already 1.5m dead zone
2011-08-08T20:18:52 < jpa-> :P
2011-08-08T20:20:08 < dekar_> so you're building a torpedo for the military? :P
2011-08-08T20:20:19 < jpa-> yeaah
2011-08-08T20:20:22 < Steffanx> I use them to measure the wind speed jpa- :)
2011-08-08T20:20:41 < Steffanx> Finland has an army? I never hear anything about finland and war-related things
2011-08-08T20:21:09 < jpa-> we do, but my torpedo is for private use :)
2011-08-08T20:21:37 < jpa-> (well, it's called "defence forces" and it is only to scare off any attackers)
2011-08-08T20:22:21 < dekar_> scare them off by blowing up their ships, that could have been my idea :)
2011-08-08T20:23:32 < jpa-> but this torpedo will be solar-powered and gprs-controlled :) http://essentialscrap.com/boat/painted.jpg
2011-08-08T20:23:47 < dekar_> since I am a computer science guy I really wouldn't want to use sensors like those, I'd get ones talking i2c giving me the distance in centimeters without further calculations :)
2011-08-08T20:23:58 < Steffanx> Finnish.. that's really abracadabra :)
2011-08-08T20:24:23 < jpa-> dekar_: yeah, but then you can't get 2d image :)
2011-08-08T20:24:44 < Steffanx> I was in Finland last summer, i'm lucky Swedish is easier so i could understand what i ate
2011-08-08T20:24:45 < dekar_> so I'd outsource it to someone else building such a sensor for me :)
2011-08-08T20:25:38 < jpa-> Steffanx: oh, but there is only normal food in finland so you can eat anything
2011-08-08T20:26:02 < Steffanx> Normal? I bought some bread, i thought it was normal bread, but it smelled awful and didn't eat it
2011-08-08T20:26:08 < Steffanx> I've NO idea what kind of bread it was
2011-08-08T20:26:50 < Steffanx> Actually i did, and it also tasted awful
2011-08-08T20:27:07 < jpa-> was it light- or dark brown?
2011-08-08T20:27:18 < Steffanx> Yellow-ish
2011-08-08T20:27:44 < jpa-> hmm.. that is not even rye bread
2011-08-08T20:28:21 < jpa-> maybe it was potato bread? like the ones on right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Rye_and_Potato_rieska_-_1.JPG
2011-08-08T20:28:43 < Steffanx> It was is Lappeenranta, maybe it's a 'local' delicacy?
2011-08-08T20:29:10 < Steffanx> No, it had another shape
2011-08-08T20:29:30 < Steffanx> More like this, http://www.recipetips.com/kitchen-tips/t--1126/enriched-andor-flavored-breads.asp
2011-08-08T20:29:35 < Steffanx> With a  yellow-ish color
2011-08-08T20:31:00 < jpa-> hmm.. that shape is of a limppu but those are rarely yellow
2011-08-08T20:31:13 < jpa-> was it sweet tasting?
2011-08-08T20:32:03 < Steffanx> I only remember it tasted awful
2011-08-08T20:32:46 < jpa-> maybe like this? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2500/4106578292_4db4a922d5.jpg
2011-08-08T20:32:57 < Steffanx> Nope
2011-08-08T20:33:04 < jpa-> hmph
2011-08-08T20:33:16 < jpa-> i'm quite sure it was something with potato anyway :)
2011-08-08T20:33:21 < Steffanx> I'll go back to finland once and tell you
2011-08-08T20:33:25 < jpa-> they are very very yummy :)
2011-08-08T20:33:46 < jpa-> you should try rye bread, too
2011-08-08T20:36:46 < Steffanx> Next time i'll learn some finnish before i go there
2011-08-08T21:26:04 <+izua> good evening
2011-08-08T21:28:47 < Steffanx> lo
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2011-08-08T22:00:03 < Steffanx> What are you going to do with the boat with ultrasonic radar jpa- ?
2011-08-08T22:10:01 <+izua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCqGtvTA36k
2011-08-08T22:10:09 <+izua> epic clock somewhere in england
2011-08-08T22:10:59 < Steffanx> Whoa, it's really that big :)
2011-08-08T22:11:00 <+izua> timekeeping & display is mechanical, and yet somehow it manages to pretend to stop or even turn back, without actually losing sync.
2011-08-08T22:25:21 < dekar_> izua, you probably wanna watch "Suits"
2011-08-08T22:25:44 < dekar_> first season still running and so far my favorite series of the year
2011-08-08T22:39:08 < Steffanx> Sometimes i hate hw/sw
2011-08-08T22:39:14 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/phase-20110808-210713.png WHY is it out of phase?!
2011-08-08T22:40:11 < dekar_> I like that, how did you capture it?
2011-08-08T22:40:17 < Steffanx> Exactly 180 degrees
2011-08-08T22:40:29 < Steffanx> ADC ofcourse dekar_ :)
2011-08-08T22:41:01 < dekar_> well how did you get it to the pc and how did you draw it :)
2011-08-08T22:41:12 < Steffanx> You don't want to know :P
2011-08-08T22:41:27 < dekar_> I do :)
2011-08-08T22:41:37 < Steffanx> I transmit it too an C# for easy displaying
2011-08-08T22:41:57 < dekar_> via serial I assume?
2011-08-08T22:42:01 < Steffanx> yes
2011-08-08T22:42:11 < Steffanx> To get this chart I copied the list (which contains the received) to excel
2011-08-08T22:42:18 < Steffanx> This chart is made with excel
2011-08-08T22:42:50 < dekar_> I'll have to dive into USB again some day
2011-08-08T22:43:10 < Steffanx> I use an ft232rl for this
2011-08-08T22:43:21 < dekar_> I heard you could use the default command endpoint on unix systems for userspace communication
2011-08-08T22:43:35 < dekar_> USB is so hard compared to serial
2011-08-08T22:44:15 < dekar_> so far I am using an interrupt endpoint since that's the only type allowed to have userspace drivers on windows
2011-08-08T22:46:05 < Steffanx> but i don't get it
2011-08-08T22:46:59 < dekar_> I don't get your problem, can't you just delay the waveform a bit?
2011-08-08T22:47:13 < dekar_> like in 'calibration'
2011-08-08T22:47:14 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-08T22:47:36 < Steffanx> No, that's ugly
2011-08-08T22:47:42 < Steffanx> I just don't get why it's out of phase
2011-08-08T22:47:53 < Steffanx> 'Exactly' 180 degrees
2011-08-08T22:53:21 < Steffanx> The hw is the same so it should be an sw issue, at least i hope it's an sw issue :P
2011-08-08T23:27:53 <+izua> dekar_: no, because you'd need to vary the amount of delay, which is basicallythe phase.
2011-08-08T23:28:32 <+izua> Steffanx: notice that at some points, it's 90 degrees phase shift(first few sines), and then it goes completely out of phase.
2011-08-08T23:29:16 < Steffanx> Yeah, i'll try to figure out it's the hw with my scope
2011-08-08T23:29:27 <+izua> Steffanx: do you sample them out of phase?
2011-08-08T23:29:32 <+izua> or do you use two adcs?
2011-08-08T23:29:38 <+izua> (channels don't count)
2011-08-08T23:29:51 < Steffanx> They are not sampled that the same time
2011-08-08T23:30:29 <+izua> what's the sampling rate?
2011-08-08T23:30:36 < Steffanx> 600ksps
2011-08-08T23:30:52 < Steffanx> I don't understand why i haven't seen it before
2011-08-08T23:31:01 <+izua> odd
2011-08-08T23:31:02 < Steffanx> *didnt see
2011-08-08T23:31:22 < Steffanx> Maybe some more parts broke thanks the my reversed polarity
2011-08-08T23:31:36 < Steffanx> The multiplexer was really dead, i replaced it
2011-08-08T23:31:58 <+izua> uh
2011-08-08T23:32:00 < Steffanx> *thanks to the
2011-08-08T23:32:01 <+izua> i'm not sure what happens
2011-08-08T23:32:07 <+izua> is that raw output from the sensors after a ping?
2011-08-08T23:32:27 < Steffanx> The red line is the signal that goes fron sensor 1 to sensor 2
2011-08-08T23:32:38 < Steffanx> The blue line is from sensor 2 to 1
2011-08-08T23:32:49 < Steffanx> They should be perfectly in phase because there's no wind
2011-08-08T23:33:05 < Steffanx> For sensor 3 and 4 that's what happens, but with sensor 1 and 2 there seems to be a problem
2011-08-08T23:33:21 <+izua> uh
2011-08-08T23:33:26 <+izua> and they don't fire at the same time i assume
2011-08-08T23:33:33 <+izua> let's see.
2011-08-08T23:33:36 < Steffanx> No, they are send after each other
2011-08-08T23:34:02 <+izua> the only thing that would cause 180 phase shift is having a transistor somewhere in a loop, and getting the signal from its collector, for instance
2011-08-08T23:34:41 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/phase-20110808-223433.png it's like that :P
2011-08-08T23:35:13 <+izua> lawl @ pretty arrows
2011-08-08T23:36:35 < Steffanx> That very unlikely
2011-08-08T23:36:45 <+izua> indeed
2011-08-08T23:36:48 <+izua> because for some reason
2011-08-08T23:36:58 <+izua> note that the relative phase changes.
2011-08-08T23:37:04 <+izua> 4th peak from left
2011-08-08T23:37:21 < Steffanx> That little phase shift when the signal starts to increase is correct
2011-08-08T23:37:39 < Steffanx> The only serious error is the is the 180 degrees
2011-08-08T23:38:06 <+izua> hold on a minute, my internet got really slow.
2011-08-08T23:38:08 -!- izua [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2011-08-08T23:39:00 -!- izua [~izua@188.26.184.245] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-08T23:39:00 -!- izua [~izua@188.26.184.245] has quit [Changing host]
2011-08-08T23:39:00 -!- izua [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-08T23:39:03 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v izua] by ChanServ
2011-08-08T23:39:32 <+izua> right.
2011-08-08T23:40:10 <+izua> something is seriously fscked
2011-08-08T23:40:15 <+izua> worked right for 1 minute, than slow again
2011-08-08T23:40:19 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-08T23:40:20 <+izua> then*
2011-08-08T23:41:37 <+izua> Steffanx: quick question
2011-08-08T23:41:56 < Steffanx> I have the 'exact' time of the zero crossings, maybe it's a good idea to check those
2011-08-08T23:42:02 <+izua> i assume your anemometer is mounted with the plane described by the 4 sensor mounts parallel to ground
2011-08-08T23:42:15 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-08T23:42:38 < Steffanx> Uhm..
2011-08-08T23:42:40 <+izua> wouldn't the structure of the frame influence the readings?
2011-08-08T23:43:02 <+izua> say, coandă effect
2011-08-08T23:44:44 < Steffanx> It's like this
2011-08-08T23:44:45 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/frame-20110808-224436.png
2011-08-08T23:45:01 < Steffanx> Yay at my drawning skillz
2011-08-08T23:45:16 <+izua> yes yes i get it
2011-08-08T23:45:21 <+izua> but as the wind blows
2011-08-08T23:45:46 < Steffanx> Yes, but in this case there's no wind
2011-08-08T23:45:56 <+izua> say, right 'between' 1 and 2.
2011-08-08T23:46:05 < Steffanx> And no wind between 3 and 4
2011-08-08T23:46:08 <+izua> it will never be able to blow between 1 and 2 because of the frame
2011-08-08T23:46:24 <+izua> granted, this will be measured by 3 and 4
2011-08-08T23:46:41 < Steffanx> There will be some turbulence due to the frame, but i don't care about that (yet)
2011-08-08T23:46:52 <+izua> but wouldn't this influence the readings?
2011-08-08T23:46:59 < Steffanx> Yes it probably will a little
2011-08-08T23:47:01 <+izua> ah yes, turbulence, that's what i was trying to say
2011-08-08T23:47:19 < Steffanx> But in this case there's no wind, so no turbulence
2011-08-08T23:47:40 <+izua> what sensors are you using, btw?
2011-08-08T23:47:46 < Steffanx> Between sensor 3 and 4 the wind speed is +-0.01m/s which is correct
2011-08-08T23:47:57 < Steffanx> Between 1 and 2 it's 0.6m/ms thanks to that 1@#$%ˆ& phase shift
2011-08-08T23:48:10 < Steffanx> anyway, i'm going to take a look at the zerocrossings
2011-08-08T23:49:41 < Steffanx> I bought a simple anemometer from dealextreme
2011-08-08T23:49:56 < Steffanx> It's hard to measure < 1/ms
2011-08-08T23:50:03 < Steffanx> 1m/s
2011-08-08T23:50:22 < Steffanx> * < 0.5m/s
2011-08-08T23:55:45 < dekar_> Steffanx, what happens when you replace the sensor by one of the others?
2011-08-08T23:56:14 < Steffanx> I replaced it with a spare one..
2011-08-08T23:56:22 < Steffanx> didn't solve the issue
2011-08-08T23:56:28 < dekar_> sucks -.-
2011-08-08T23:56:39 < Steffanx> It's probably an enormous PEBKAC :(
2011-08-08T23:57:34 <+izua> do you have a schematic?
2011-08-08T23:58:29 <+izua> are the sensors raw? do you have to generate and amplify your sonic sweep, or do you send it a command? what do you get back?
2011-08-08T23:58:51 < Steffanx> They are 'raw'
2011-08-08T23:58:55 < Steffanx> I have to amplify it myself
2011-08-08T23:59:34 < Steffanx> That amplification could be the cause of the phase shift, but all sensors use the same opamps
2011-08-08T23:59:48 < Steffanx> Or the analog multiplexer is the cause
--- Day changed Tue Aug 09 2011
2011-08-09T00:00:07 <+izua> unlikely, unless you somehow managed to wire one of them in an opposite configuration to the other 4.
2011-08-09T00:00:13 <+izua> s/4/3
2011-08-09T00:00:30 < Steffanx> Yes, maybe..
2011-08-09T00:00:42 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/anemometer.sch-20110808-190633.png
2011-08-09T00:00:46 < Steffanx> that's how it looks like
2011-08-09T00:01:04 < Steffanx> Except the 2.2k being 10k
2011-08-09T00:01:17 <+izua> oh wow
2011-08-09T00:01:24 <+izua> nice amplification stage
2011-08-09T00:01:33 < Steffanx> There's not amplification here :P
2011-08-09T00:01:50 <+izua> ah 1:1 transformer?
2011-08-09T00:01:56 <+izua> that's what i was about to say
2011-08-09T00:02:04 < Steffanx> No, 1:10
2011-08-09T00:02:05 <+izua> check that the trafos are aligned right.
2011-08-09T00:02:16 <+izua> if they're homemade, that is.
2011-08-09T00:02:28 <+izua> actually just check the primaries
2011-08-09T00:02:30 < Steffanx> There's only one way to align them.. one side has 3 pins the other side 2
2011-08-09T00:02:33 <+izua> ah
2011-08-09T00:02:36 < Steffanx> And prowave made them
2011-08-09T00:02:37 <+izua> so not home made.
2011-08-09T00:02:41 < Steffanx> no
2011-08-09T00:02:56 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/anemometer.sch-20110808-230250.png
2011-08-09T00:03:02 < Steffanx> Very simple amplification stage
2011-08-09T00:03:13 <+izua> ok, make sure their 'dot' input goes to the same pin on each transducer
2011-08-09T00:03:33 <+izua> ah yes, non-inverting
2011-08-09T00:03:40 < Steffanx> I just copied this part 4 times
2011-08-09T00:03:56 <+izua> so that first stage is just for isolation and clamping?
2011-08-09T00:03:57 < Steffanx> * not that amplification part, but the send/receive part
2011-08-09T00:04:09 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-09T00:04:17 <+izua> uh, transforming, clamping, capacitive coupling too :)
2011-08-09T00:04:34 <+izua> nice :)
2011-08-09T00:04:37 < Steffanx> I didn't want to use a negative power supply
2011-08-09T00:05:19 <+izua> if this was made in china, it would have probably used the transformer for amplification
2011-08-09T00:05:28 <+izua> or a mcu with 4 sensible enough ADC channels heh
2011-08-09T00:05:45 < Steffanx> Maybe, but the signal is only 5-20mV
2011-08-09T00:06:35 <+izua> you can use a 0.5v reference.
2011-08-09T00:06:37 < Steffanx> Actually i also made a fancy narrow band pass filter
2011-08-09T00:06:43 < Steffanx> but that is soooo useless
2011-08-09T00:06:50 < Steffanx> *over engineering to the rescue*
2011-08-09T00:07:15 <+izua> well, might prove neat in case you ever get bats
2011-08-09T00:07:18 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/anemometer.sch-20110808-230712.png
2011-08-09T00:07:48 < Steffanx> I also filter it in software, so that filter is useless
2011-08-09T00:08:03 <+izua> uh, not entirely.
2011-08-09T00:08:24 <+izua> niquist/shannon also states that no frequencies above samplerate/2 should be present
2011-08-09T00:08:27 < Steffanx> Actually it is.. the sensors only give 38-42kHz :)
2011-08-09T00:08:54 < Steffanx> Maybe it filters some noise
2011-08-09T00:08:57 < Steffanx> but that's all
2011-08-09T00:09:26 < Steffanx> And the filter isn't as perfect as it was in simulations ofcourse :(
2011-08-09T00:09:43 < Steffanx> Anyway, tomorrow is a new day
2011-08-09T00:09:50 <+izua> you need to balance the opamps
2011-08-09T00:09:50 < Steffanx> Thanks for whatever :)
2011-08-09T00:09:59 <+izua> and of course, you'll need a second power rail :)
2011-08-09T00:10:08 <+izua> that's the sucky thing about opamps :(
2011-08-09T00:10:19 < Steffanx> 0-3.3V rocks :P
2011-08-09T00:10:44 < Steffanx> *Single supply
2011-08-09T00:11:02 < Steffanx> This filter is just copied from some nice pdf from Texas Instruments
2011-08-09T00:11:22 <+izua> not really, because you'll have to bias your signal to 3.3/2
2011-08-09T00:11:39 <+izua> and that adds extra noise ofc
2011-08-09T00:12:05 <+izua> pretty much every stage in analog design adds some amount of noise, be it phase, amplitude, or harmonic
2011-08-09T00:12:19  * izua also tends to not like analog design for that reason
2011-08-09T00:16:05  * dekar_ also dislikes analog stuff, but for simply not understanding any of it :D
2011-08-09T00:29:08 <+izua> dekar_: http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits
2011-08-09T00:29:22 <+izua> for your growing interests in fpga stuff :P
2011-08-09T00:29:25 < Laurenceb_> hmm i rebooted and
2011-08-09T00:29:27 < Laurenceb_> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fpromote-loop-indices"
2011-08-09T00:29:35 < Laurenceb_> i know its something wrong with the path
2011-08-09T00:31:24 < dekar_> izua, at least FPGA aren't analog :)
2011-08-09T00:31:49 <+izua> sure they are
2011-08-09T00:31:54 < dekar_> no waii
2011-08-09T00:32:01 <+izua> they become very prone to analog effects after some frequency
2011-08-09T00:32:04 < Laurenceb_>  $PATH
2011-08-09T00:32:04 < Laurenceb_> bash: /home/laurence/CodeSoucery/Sourcery_G++_Lite/arm-none-eabi/bin:/home/laurence/CodeSoucery/Sourcery_G++_Lite/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
2011-08-09T00:32:07 < Laurenceb_> ^ok?
2011-08-09T00:32:15 <+izua> Laurenceb_: yeah.
2011-08-09T00:32:26 < dekar_> izua, only if you output the frequency
2011-08-09T00:32:29 <+izua> you need /bin and none-eabi/bin
2011-08-09T00:32:29 < Laurenceb_> hmm wtf
2011-08-09T00:32:36 < dekar_> internally they don't have weird analog effects
2011-08-09T00:32:42 <+izua> dekar_: not really.
2011-08-09T00:32:47 <+izua> look up metastability for instance :D
2011-08-09T00:32:49 < Laurenceb_> why do i have a problem then?
2011-08-09T00:32:58 < dekar_> izua, now you're scaring me
2011-08-09T00:33:18 <+izua> if you clock an input right when the clock for the flipflop for that input changes state, it will start to oscillate.
2011-08-09T00:33:45 <+izua> the standard way to do that is to add 3-4 flipflops in chain for that input, lowering the chance of propagating that oscillation.
2011-08-09T00:33:58 <+izua> s/do/deal with
2011-08-09T00:35:18 <+izua> Laurenceb_: what problem
2011-08-09T00:35:37 < dekar_> izua, I don't have to use different clock sources
2011-08-09T00:36:14 <+izua> an external signal even if it is 10000% slower than your main clock, _is_ on a different clock domain.
2011-08-09T00:36:53 <+izua> for it to be on the same clock domain would mean having it clocked by the fpga
2011-08-09T00:37:10 < dekar_> my fpga will only speak to itself
2011-08-09T00:37:34 <+izua> no buttons? usart? i2c or spi for the transceiver? :P
2011-08-09T00:37:46 < dekar_> XAUI out and XAUI in
2011-08-09T00:38:03 < dekar_> all that stuff you're talking about is epically slow
2011-08-09T00:38:10 < dekar_> so who cares
2011-08-09T00:38:37 <+izua> ah, just letting you know fpgas are very prone to analog effects :P
2011-08-09T00:38:47 < dekar_> no waii
2011-08-09T00:39:16 <+izua> every digital circuit is prone to them dude
2011-08-09T00:39:29 <+izua> they're still analog in a way :P
2011-08-09T00:39:43 < dekar_> I have programmed CPLD and my STM32 so far and never had weird analog problems
2011-08-09T00:40:33 <+izua> heh
2011-08-09T00:40:44 <+izua> well, you need high frequencies for that
2011-08-09T00:41:05 <+izua> read the article i gave you
2011-08-09T00:41:10 < dekar_> I won't touch high frequencies besides the XAUI stuff
2011-08-09T00:41:46 < Steffanx> 'powie' is REALLY high freq. isn't it?
2011-08-09T00:42:27 < dekar_> not really, it's the parallel low frequency version of 10Gbit/s ethernet
2011-08-09T00:42:36 < dekar_> just 3,125ghz
2011-08-09T00:42:50 < Steffanx> Just 3.125 lolz
2011-08-09T00:42:56 <+izua> yeah that's slow
2011-08-09T00:43:26 <+izua> very slow etc
2011-08-09T00:43:27 < dekar_> so how much does an ADC for that cost?
2011-08-09T00:43:35 <+izua> it's not really an adc
2011-08-09T00:43:43 <+izua> it's a dedicated discriminator circuit more likely
2011-08-09T00:43:47 < dekar_> I wonder whether I can build a scope using my FPGA :)
2011-08-09T00:43:57 < Steffanx> Ofcourse you can
2011-08-09T00:44:16 < Steffanx> Get a 2.4GHz ADC
2011-08-09T00:44:18 < dekar_> it'll have at least 8 of those transceivers
2011-08-09T00:44:31 < Steffanx> Good luck
2011-08-09T00:44:32 <+izua> you need something *4 at least
2011-08-09T00:44:37 < Steffanx> Don't you also need a FAST fpga?
2011-08-09T00:44:59 < dekar_> dunno, why would it have to be fast?
2011-08-09T00:45:03 <+izua> that's probably why it has a dedicated module
2011-08-09T00:45:17 < Steffanx> It has to generate a clock of at least 3.125GHz?
2011-08-09T00:45:34 < dekar_> It has transceivers doing that
2011-08-09T00:45:51 < dekar_> the internal bus has a width of like 64bit iirc
2011-08-09T00:45:56 <+izua> if you want to make your dedicated xaui stuff, then you really need a fast fpga
2011-08-09T00:45:59 < Steffanx> And how fast is the communication between the transceiver and 'device'?
2011-08-09T00:46:08 < dekar_> 10G
2011-08-09T00:46:20 <+izua> nah, probably much less in parallel
2011-08-09T00:46:23 <+izua> in packets etc
2011-08-09T00:46:30 < Steffanx> device = host = fpga in this case dekar_
2011-08-09T00:46:30 < dekar_> well - 12g cause of the modulation
2011-08-09T00:46:36 < dekar_> ah
2011-08-09T00:46:43 <+izua> 3.125 G clock
2011-08-09T00:46:50 <+izua> and then you get 8/10 bit stuffing
2011-08-09T00:47:00 < dekar_> the fpga uses a parallel bus to access those transceivers
2011-08-09T00:47:09 <+izua> so 1/num lines also :)
2011-08-09T00:47:10 < Steffanx> Yes, but you have to clock is don't you?
2011-08-09T00:47:17 < dekar_> it runs at like 150mhz I think
2011-08-09T00:47:20 < Steffanx> Just like RMII, MII etc.
2011-08-09T00:47:26 <+izua> Steffanx: it probably has its own pll for the transceivers
2011-08-09T00:48:13 < dekar_> quartus offered me a few frequencies when I set up the transceivers earlier this day
2011-08-09T00:48:23 < dekar_> and a few bus widths
2011-08-09T00:50:27 < dekar_> izua, is 150k logic elements/cells much?
2011-08-09T00:50:47 <+izua> uh... really no idea
2011-08-09T00:50:51 < dekar_> I read the altera ethernet stack takes up like 10k
2011-08-09T00:51:15 <+izua> ah
2011-08-09T00:51:20 <+izua> so you got the board?
2011-08-09T00:51:25 < dekar_> not yet
2011-08-09T00:51:34 < dekar_> but I am pretty sure I know which one I want
2011-08-09T00:51:46 < dekar_> just playing with quartus so far
2011-08-09T00:51:55 < dekar_> my project starts in like 2 months
2011-08-09T00:52:03 < dekar_> so I plan on getting the board till then
2011-08-09T00:52:26 < dekar_> I'll also need some HSMC cards - I somehow hate HSMC :/
2011-08-09T00:52:32 < Steffanx> Have fun learning vhdl
2011-08-09T00:52:40 < dekar_> I will :)
2011-08-09T00:52:51 < dekar_> I did some verilog and abel before, wasn't too bad
2011-08-09T00:52:59 < Steffanx> abel.. me too
2011-08-09T00:53:03 < dekar_> besides I know a ton of languages already
2011-08-09T00:53:26 < Steffanx> The syntax of vhdl isn't my problem
2011-08-09T00:54:13 < Steffanx> I just have change my way of 'thinking'.
2011-08-09T00:54:31 < dekar_> 896-BBGA - does that mean it has nearly 900 pins?
2011-08-09T00:54:47 < Steffanx> I'm too 'sequential' minded
2011-08-09T00:54:53 < Steffanx> I think so dekar_
2011-08-09T00:55:04 < dekar_> so epic, no waii I can solder those :D
2011-08-09T00:55:15 < Steffanx> With lots of power pins :)
2011-08-09T00:55:35 < Steffanx> Routing it is also 'fun'
2011-08-09T00:55:46 < dekar_> I feel like the PCB will be expensive :)
2011-08-09T00:56:06 < Steffanx> Hmm, this macbook sucks
2011-08-09T00:56:10 < Steffanx> I HEAR everything
2011-08-09T00:56:14 < dekar_> how so? mac is epic!
2011-08-09T00:56:37 < dekar_> I gave mine to a co-worker and I had soooo many lulz that day
2011-08-09T00:56:44 < Steffanx> When someone turns the light in the toilet on i hear in in my head phones
2011-08-09T00:56:50 < dekar_> him pressing enter thinking it would open folders
2011-08-09T00:57:10 < Steffanx> When someone rings the door bell.. i hear in in my head phones
2011-08-09T00:57:13 < dekar_> control + q when he tried to make a @ sign for facebook login
2011-08-09T00:57:24 < Steffanx> Every 'little' power change in this house can be heard
2011-08-09T00:57:27 < dekar_> weird
2011-08-09T00:57:31 < dekar_> get a new PSU?
2011-08-09T00:57:45 < Steffanx> No, these are too expensive
2011-08-09T00:57:59 < dekar_> get a company buying that stuff for you?
2011-08-09T00:58:05 < Steffanx> Yeah :P
2011-08-09T00:58:15 < dekar_> I wouldn't even ask getting a psu
2011-08-09T00:58:29 < Steffanx> The psu is ok
2011-08-09T00:58:30 < dekar_> no one cared when I ordered my SSD + RAM
2011-08-09T00:58:38 < Steffanx> It's the macbook
2011-08-09T00:58:50 < Steffanx> My macbook isn't 100% ok
2011-08-09T00:58:56 < dekar_> though, actually someone tried to get the HDD from me thinking I would _replace_ it with the SSD
2011-08-09T00:59:19 < Steffanx> There is an annoying buzzing/crackling sound near the left speaker
2011-08-09T00:59:22 < dekar_> but I don't share, I keep my HDD and my SSD :D
2011-08-09T00:59:33 < dekar_> try a usb sound card?
2011-08-09T00:59:55 < Steffanx> It's not the sound card, it probably something on the pcb
2011-08-09T01:00:02 < Steffanx> Coil whine or something like that
2011-08-09T01:00:11 < Steffanx> but it's annoying when it's quiet
2011-08-09T01:00:31 < dekar_> I mean to counter the sounds from your headphones problem
2011-08-09T01:00:39 < Steffanx> Ah, maybe
2011-08-09T01:01:01 < Steffanx> I can order a cheap one from dealextreme :)
2011-08-09T01:10:40 < dekar_> so I could make a scope being able to measure like 1ghz signals?
2011-08-09T01:10:59 < Steffanx> If you want to do the analog part too, yeah why not?
2011-08-09T01:11:01 < dekar_> at maybe 8bit resolution?
2011-08-09T01:11:32 < dekar_> sounds epic :)
2011-08-09T01:12:11 < dekar_> I'd probably be too scared to destroy the transceivers though, I mean they're worth $1200 :/
2011-08-09T01:12:25 < Steffanx> yay
2011-08-09T01:13:03 < dekar_> well I guess I could destroy up to four
2011-08-09T01:13:25 < dekar_> don't really need eight
2011-08-09T01:15:12 < dekar_> http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=73&No=278&PartNo=1
2011-08-09T01:15:22 < dekar_> they call that high speed :/
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2011-08-09T12:53:26 <+izua> http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7594
2011-08-09T12:53:58 <+izua> http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/For_Ages_Eight_Plus.htm
2011-08-09T13:15:21 < Steffanx> WTF at toy izua
2011-08-09T13:22:01 < dekar> nsfw :)
2011-08-09T13:22:49 < dekar> I'll try to legally force ftdi to give me their d2xx source code :D
2011-08-09T13:23:11 < dekar> which should also protect us from patents
2011-08-09T13:23:27 < dekar> thus we should be able to write a 100% compatible firmware for the stm32
2011-08-09T13:24:19 < Steffanx> Hehe
2011-08-09T13:24:46 <+izua> you can't
2011-08-09T13:24:58 <+izua> they expressely state that you are allowed to use their drivers only if you buy their chips
2011-08-09T13:25:01 <+izua> however
2011-08-09T13:25:05 <+izua> look open libopenftdi
2011-08-09T13:25:35 <+izua> uh
2011-08-09T13:25:37 <+izua> i mean this http://www.intra2net.com/en/developer/libftdi/
2011-08-09T13:26:02 < Steffanx> That's a reversed engineered version?
2011-08-09T13:26:07 <+izua> basically it boils down to vid/pid
2011-08-09T13:26:19 <+izua> you can only use the ft232something vid/pid for their chip
2011-08-09T13:26:34 <+izua> if you use it with a different chip, you risk not only getting them on your arse, but also the usb if
2011-08-09T13:26:45 <+izua> because you're polluting the address space
2011-08-09T13:26:51 < Steffanx> Then they can sue you again.. it's not allowed to use vid/pid's from others
2011-08-09T13:27:00 <+izua> yep
2011-08-09T13:27:21 <+izua> just implement a generic cdc
2011-08-09T13:27:24 < Steffanx> You have a fancy vendor id dekar ?
2011-08-09T13:27:28 <+izua> it works the same way on windows, not driver required, etc
2011-08-09T13:27:39 <+izua> no*
2011-08-09T13:27:47 <+izua> dekar: and speaking of usb
2011-08-09T13:27:55 <+izua> anytime you wish to provide your build env, i'm here
2011-08-09T13:27:58  * izua points at self :D
2011-08-09T13:28:46 < dekar> izua, I think I can
2011-08-09T13:28:58 <+izua> legally?
2011-08-09T13:28:59 <+izua> uh
2011-08-09T13:29:01 <+izua> you know better
2011-08-09T13:29:08 <+izua> you probably have law dudes :P
2011-08-09T13:29:10 < dekar> I also just asked one of my co-workers who is into legal and she told me to send the letter I wrote :D
2011-08-09T13:29:27 <+izua> what did you write?
2011-08-09T13:29:33 <+izua> what's your argument?
2011-08-09T13:30:03 < dekar> well they're derived work, I found LGPL licenses code... :D
2011-08-09T13:30:17 < dekar> *licensed
2011-08-09T13:30:35 < dekar> also CDC is NOT the same
2011-08-09T13:30:49 < dekar> their D2XX is way more flexible
2011-08-09T13:31:06 < dekar> besides I had weird bugs when I tried CDC on windows XP a while ago
2011-08-09T13:31:31 < dekar> D2XX is able to do jtag, spi, i2c and so on
2011-08-09T13:32:30 < dekar> Steffanx, I don't think they can sue you for using their VID/PID
2011-08-09T13:32:44 < Steffanx> afaik i know you can
2011-08-09T13:32:46 < dekar> their VID is part of their implementation
2011-08-09T13:32:50 < Steffanx> *they
2011-08-09T13:33:05 < dekar> and if the implementation is licensed under GPL...
2011-08-09T13:33:31 <+izua> D2XX is a proprietary protocol
2011-08-09T13:33:44 < dekar> if I succeed it isn't proprietary anymore
2011-08-09T13:33:54 <+izua> ftdi chips are CDC chips if not using the D2XX drivers
2011-08-09T13:34:01 <+izua> so again, my question
2011-08-09T13:34:04 < ziph> The Windows FTDI drivers have a license condition that you are using FTDI chips.
2011-08-09T13:34:05 <+izua> what _did_ you write?
2011-08-09T13:34:17 <+izua> why exactly would they give you their business?
2011-08-09T13:34:27 < dekar> ziph, if I get them under GPL I don't have to care about any other licenses
2011-08-09T13:34:29 <+izua> FTDI has some agreements with microsoft etc
2011-08-09T13:34:32 < dekar> I am to pick which license I want
2011-08-09T13:34:43 < ziph> You can get the Windows FTDI drivers under GPL?
2011-08-09T13:34:45 <+izua> or hm, probably not, since they use the chip
2011-08-09T13:34:56 <+izua> the agreement is probably when you get the d2XX drivers
2011-08-09T13:34:59 <+izua> so.. hm, loophole.
2011-08-09T13:35:08 <+izua> if you never got those drivers, you'd have never agreed to it.
2011-08-09T13:35:09 < dekar> ziph, I think they all have the same codebase, I only analyzed the OSX and Linux versions
2011-08-09T13:35:20 < Steffanx> libusb?
2011-08-09T13:35:27 <+izua> libftdi, actually :P
2011-08-09T13:35:32 < dekar> izua, _read_ the GPL
2011-08-09T13:35:35 < dekar> seriously
2011-08-09T13:35:41 <+izua> statically compile it
2011-08-09T13:35:43 <+izua> link to it
2011-08-09T13:35:45 <+izua> problem solved?
2011-08-09T13:35:46 < dekar> they can't limit the GPL with other licenses
2011-08-09T13:35:59 < dekar> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.html
2011-08-09T13:36:00 < ziph> A GPL on the drivers for Linux and OSX doesn't mean the Windows drivers are affected.
2011-08-09T13:36:01 <+izua> yeah but the drivers aren't under gpl?
2011-08-09T13:36:18 < dekar> ziph, so what? I wouldn't touch the windows ones
2011-08-09T13:36:25 <+izua> and i highly doubt they would actually do it
2011-08-09T13:36:33 <+izua> i mean, you're basically asking them "hai, gimme your business"
2011-08-09T13:36:38 < dekar> izua, I try to proof them their Linux and OSX drivers are GPL
2011-08-09T13:36:41 < dekar> we'll see
2011-08-09T13:36:44 <+izua> do they release source code?
2011-08-09T13:36:55 < dekar> they legally have to
2011-08-09T13:37:05 < Steffanx> How you wan to proof the drivers are gpl dekar ?
2011-08-09T13:37:07 <+izua> if it's not there, they can change the license
2011-08-09T13:37:16 < dekar> Steffanx, look at them yourself
2011-08-09T13:37:27 < Steffanx> I see some nice .o files..
2011-08-09T13:38:31 <+izua> do they say the drivers are under gpl? o_o
2011-08-09T13:38:40 <+izua> because technically, i could probably harass them to get the source code
2011-08-09T13:38:58 <+izua> and once you have gpl on your stuff, you can't later 'change' your mind, legally.
2011-08-09T13:39:31 < ziph> Sure you can.
2011-08-09T13:40:07 < dekar> I am going after them for linking GPL code, I'll keep you informed how they respond
2011-08-09T13:40:24 < dekar> The point is we could actually use the source code for a Linux/ARM project we do
2011-08-09T13:40:25 < Steffanx> What's gpl? lib usb dekar ?
2011-08-09T13:40:25 <+izua> ziph: well, you can, but the new license would only apply to newer versions
2011-08-09T13:40:45 < dekar> So I might even have our lawyer go against them
2011-08-09T13:40:52 < dekar> yeah libusb is LGPL
2011-08-09T13:40:57 < dekar> they did statically link it
2011-08-09T13:41:01 <+izua> dekar: what did they link against?
2011-08-09T13:41:13 <+izua> isn't statically linking a gray area?
2011-08-09T13:41:20 < dekar> I don't think so
2011-08-09T13:41:25 <+izua> like, the way qt manages to be gpl
2011-08-09T13:41:37 < dekar> QT IS FRICKIN' LGPL :/
2011-08-09T13:41:50 <+izua> uh, i meant dyanmic :D
2011-08-09T13:41:50 < dekar> and Qt only links dynamically
2011-08-09T13:41:53 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-09T13:41:56  * izua is tired
2011-08-09T13:42:10 <+izua> if it's lgpl, why can't you link dynamically?
2011-08-09T13:42:12 < dekar> dynamic linking is okay, they don't
2011-08-09T13:42:15 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-09T13:42:19 <+izua> i suppose that's bad
2011-08-09T13:42:26 < dekar> I think I got them
2011-08-09T13:42:26 <+izua> but.. this is basically just a minor flaw
2011-08-09T13:42:27 < ziph> Programmers discussing law is almost as funny as creationists discussing evolutionary science.
2011-08-09T13:42:46 <+izua> it doesn't steal anything from it or break its license by linking to it
2011-08-09T13:42:51 <+izua> be it statically or dynamically
2011-08-09T13:42:56 < dekar> ziph, I had to take some legal lectures at university, they come in handy now :)
2011-08-09T13:42:58 <+izua> the end result is the same
2011-08-09T13:43:07 <+izua> but i guess this could work
2011-08-09T13:43:11 <+izua> dekar: still
2011-08-09T13:43:14 < dekar> izua, nope - it's derived work
2011-08-09T13:43:30 < dekar> one library against two libraries
2011-08-09T13:43:34 <+izua> why would you prefer a legal battle to get some (probably crappy) source code, against using already existing ones?
2011-08-09T13:43:38 < dekar> they made one huge derived work
2011-08-09T13:43:45 <+izua> that's also a gray area io
2011-08-09T13:43:46 <+izua> imo
2011-08-09T13:43:49 <+izua> if you have a huge app
2011-08-09T13:44:03 < dekar> porting to the open source lib isn't an option
2011-08-09T13:44:05 <+izua> and it illegaly uses a gpl-ed md5 lib for example
2011-08-09T13:44:17 <+izua> it's not really derived work
2011-08-09T13:44:19 < dekar> we use their I2C lib etc
2011-08-09T13:44:23 < dekar> that needs d2xx
2011-08-09T13:44:33 <+izua> because it does MUCH MORE than md5
2011-08-09T13:44:40 <+izua> uh, not sure if they have extensions for the MSSPE
2011-08-09T13:44:43 <+izua> but they do have D2XX
2011-08-09T13:44:52 <+izua> bitbanging on io lines
2011-08-09T13:44:56 < dekar> all legal cares about is it's a derived work
2011-08-09T13:45:13 < dekar> if you use lady gaga music in your private movie it's still a derived work
2011-08-09T13:45:22 <+izua> idk
2011-08-09T13:45:22 < dekar> even though it is MUCH MORE than the music alone
2011-08-09T13:45:33  * izua tries to avoid legal shit
2011-08-09T13:45:38 <+izua> it's like management
2011-08-09T13:45:43 <+izua> it sucks in money without a purpose
2011-08-09T13:45:50 < dekar> I agree, but it's good to know some legal
2011-08-09T13:45:51 < Steffanx> I don't think they'll release the source that easy dekar
2011-08-09T13:45:57 < dekar> saved my ass several times
2011-08-09T13:46:00 <+izua> yeah, me neither.
2011-08-09T13:46:04 <+izua> elaborate? :D
2011-08-09T13:46:22 < Steffanx> I think they'll ignore you
2011-08-09T13:46:46 <+izua> if you do get the sourcecode though
2011-08-09T13:46:52 <+izua> REMEBER I ALWAYS SUPPORTED YOU
2011-08-09T13:46:54 <+izua> AND SAID IT WOULD WORK
2011-08-09T13:46:56 < dekar> izua, nothing big, just warranty related stuff - german law mostly
2011-08-09T13:47:17 <+izua> ah lol
2011-08-09T13:47:20 <+izua> warranty is pretty neat for me
2011-08-09T13:47:25 < dekar> Steffanx, ignoring me makes it really bad for them, they'll respond at least
2011-08-09T13:47:26 <+izua> got an amp for a friend once
2011-08-09T13:47:42 <+izua> broke down two days later after the warranty worn off
2011-08-09T13:47:49 <+izua> i told him to buy a new one
2011-08-09T13:47:53 <+izua> switched the electronics
2011-08-09T13:48:01 < Steffanx> I don't think it's really that bad for them
2011-08-09T13:48:07 < dekar> if you know how to do it you can abuse german law to force them to proof you broke it - else you can legally demand replacement
2011-08-09T13:48:09 <+izua> he got his money back on the new onewith the old one's electronics
2011-08-09T13:48:26 <+izua> bwahah
2011-08-09T13:48:26 < dekar> proving you broke it is nearly impossible
2011-08-09T13:48:30 < dekar> and totally expensive
2011-08-09T13:48:55 <+izua> not sure how that would work
2011-08-09T13:48:59 <+izua> but around here that sucks
2011-08-09T13:49:07 <+izua> they usually quote power fluctuations
2011-08-09T13:49:08 < dekar> it isn't even warranty, the distributor is responsible
2011-08-09T13:49:50 <+izua> my last phone (htc magic) went into warranty because the sim contacts were oxidated with the mention that "Sim contacts oxidated, please clean"
2011-08-09T13:50:24 <+izua> they cancelled the warranty and mentioned "phone came in contact with water, warranty voided", proof - oxidated sim contacts picture.
2011-08-09T13:51:14 <+izua> and the cool part about that is that they knocked off the gps antenna, so i got like 128m accuracy tops, had several (big) screwdriver scratches on it, the lcd was badly mounted - so when the phone vibrated it sometimes turned off, and they switched my battery.
2011-08-09T13:52:18 <+izua> called them when i got home and figured out all the issues, they said all those were because of me, since it had no issues when it left.
2011-08-09T13:52:34 < dekar> ya I know, you said you got a desire - w/e
2011-08-09T13:52:51 < dekar> http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F102C6T6ATR/?qs=pW7VN3fQ%252bU%252bacGiYyqujng%3d%3d
2011-08-09T13:52:54 <+izua> proof, a picture the day it left. with exif data showing the date when it got in
2011-08-09T13:52:59 < dekar> vs http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/FTDI/FT2232D-REEL/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutXGli8Ay4kP5mehck65FIfsCs1m4lpks%3d
2011-08-09T13:53:22 <+izua> called them again, explained the issue, after finally getting to a smarter guy, i was adviced to sue them if i really cared about the phone ._.
2011-08-09T13:53:42 < jpa-> i never dare to send anything into warranty
2011-08-09T13:53:48 <+izua> nah, i had a htc magic, that went through all that bullshit, and finally i claimed my insurance for it and got the htc desire
2011-08-09T13:53:57 < jpa-> i just repair/break it myself even if the warranty is still valid
2011-08-09T13:54:08 < Steffanx> "Alternatively, a statically linked library is allowed if either source code or linkable object files are provided."
2011-08-09T13:54:13 < Steffanx> Isn't that what they do dekar ?
2011-08-09T13:54:14 <+izua> same, but i couldn't really afford that on the phone :P
2011-08-09T13:54:18 < Steffanx> They give you the object files
2011-08-09T13:54:45 <+izua> dekar: why do you want the source code?
2011-08-09T13:54:46 < dekar> german law has something called "Gewährleistung" which isn't actually warranty - it's some duties the distributor has
2011-08-09T13:55:08 <+izua> you people have a lot of laws, some good, some probably sucky
2011-08-09T13:55:31 < dekar> izua, I want the source in order to port it to ARM
2011-08-09T13:56:01 <+izua> o_O
2011-08-09T13:56:13 < Steffanx> There's not need to give you the source
2011-08-09T13:56:14 <+izua> you really want to use it on the vending machines?
2011-08-09T13:56:19 < Steffanx> They give you object files :)
2011-08-09T13:57:10 <+izua> dekar: make your own ftdi replacement
2011-08-09T13:57:16 <+izua> that works with an identical API
2011-08-09T13:57:22 <+izua> pumps data through usb/cdc
2011-08-09T13:57:31 <+izua> and does all the tricks with the i2c/spi/gpios of a stm32 :D
2011-08-09T13:57:46 <+izua> link the old program to the new api
2011-08-09T13:57:54 <+izua> OR if that's an issue
2011-08-09T13:57:56 <+izua> hook it
2011-08-09T13:58:06 <+izua> or erm.. whatever linux uses for hooks.
2011-08-09T13:58:09 < dekar> I just thought it'd be fun to have the source, besides a co worker has major problems with their shitty drivers atm
2011-08-09T13:58:16 < dekar> like the OSX version being broken
2011-08-09T13:58:24 < dekar> at least some functions
2011-08-09T13:58:34 < Steffanx> They won't give you the source :P
2011-08-09T13:58:39 < dekar> I guess
2011-08-09T13:58:42 <+izua> the problem is using exotic OSes
2011-08-09T13:58:47 <+izua> and expecting things to work :P
2011-08-09T13:59:00 < Steffanx> os x isn't that exotic
2011-08-09T13:59:08 <+izua> bah
2011-08-09T13:59:11 <+izua> i forgot this is #mac
2011-08-09T13:59:32 <+izua> i know exactly three persons using macs.
2011-08-09T13:59:42 < dekar> izua, I don't use mac anymore so stfu
2011-08-09T13:59:45 < dekar> :P
2011-08-09T13:59:48 <+izua> irl people i mean, so meh.
2011-08-09T13:59:59 < dekar> ah okay
2011-08-09T14:00:03 <+izua> dekar is probably the only guy that deals with hardcore stuff from a programmers' point of view.
2011-08-09T14:00:19 <+izua> the three guys aren't really tech savvy.
2011-08-09T14:00:39 < Steffanx> You also 'know' me :P
2011-08-09T14:00:55 <+izua> each one stated that he got the mac either for the looks or enhancing his image
2011-08-09T14:01:06 <+izua> so, meh.
2011-08-09T14:01:27 <+izua> well, yeah, but you're in a channel discussing an alternative cpu architecture for embedded work.
2011-08-09T14:01:27 < Steffanx> I have it because i can :)
2011-08-09T14:01:37 < Steffanx> My next pc is not a mac
2011-08-09T14:01:51 <+izua> i _could_ probably get one if i saved up a few months
2011-08-09T14:02:10 <+izua> but my point is, why get an expensive computer that's incompatible with 99% of interesting software and games
2011-08-09T14:02:20 <+izua> that's even worse than getting a console
2011-08-09T14:02:27 < Steffanx> I don't care about that 99%
2011-08-09T14:02:44 <+izua> that means you don't use a lot of programs? :P
2011-08-09T14:03:03 < Steffanx> Ok, i don't care about 95% of that
2011-08-09T14:03:12 <+izua> hehe :P
2011-08-09T14:03:23 <+izua> i got isis to run in VM, btw
2011-08-09T14:03:27 <+izua> erm
2011-08-09T14:03:28 <+izua> in wine
2011-08-09T14:03:32 <+izua> not vm, wtf am i typing
2011-08-09T14:03:49 <+izua> check it out. i think there's a 7.6 on sonsivri
2011-08-09T14:03:54 < dekar> izua, I really don't miss software on OSX and Linux
2011-08-09T14:04:05 < Steffanx> I do
2011-08-09T14:04:08 <+izua> I do
2011-08-09T14:04:08 < dekar> I don't play games on my laptop though
2011-08-09T14:04:18 < Steffanx> Altium FTW
2011-08-09T14:04:22 <+izua> EXACTLY
2011-08-09T14:04:25 < dekar> never even tried that
2011-08-09T14:04:30  * izua hifives Steffanx 
2011-08-09T14:04:32 < dekar> isn't it like incredible expensive?
2011-08-09T14:04:32 <+izua> best EDA ever
2011-08-09T14:04:37 < Steffanx> It is
2011-08-09T14:04:43 <+izua> get a piratebay license
2011-08-09T14:04:46 < Steffanx> The student license isn't though
2011-08-09T14:04:56 < dekar> sure, and use that for the company - douche
2011-08-09T14:05:05 < Steffanx> The student license is 99$/year
2011-08-09T14:05:12 < dekar> I can't use neither of those for the company :P
2011-08-09T14:05:19 < Steffanx> Don't know about the exact license terms
2011-08-09T14:05:24 <+izua> well you don't have to use them for the company
2011-08-09T14:05:28 <+izua> you get your own license
2011-08-09T14:05:31 <+izua> and sell your work to the company
2011-08-09T14:05:52 < dekar> izua, I am pretty sure the license Steffanx has is non-commercial
2011-08-09T14:05:53 <+izua> or generously offer it for free in exchange for a trip to wherever
2011-08-09T14:06:01 < Steffanx> I don't have it
2011-08-09T14:06:06 < Steffanx> I don't have Altium at all
2011-08-09T14:06:11 <+izua> I DO
2011-08-09T14:06:16 <+izua> altium is the freaking best EDA ever
2011-08-09T14:06:22 < dekar> so how do you miss it on OSX then?
2011-08-09T14:06:31 <+izua> by being forced to use crappy eda software?
2011-08-09T14:06:37 < Steffanx> It doesn't run very well in a vm with only one screen
2011-08-09T14:06:50 < dekar> but you don't even own a license anyway?
2011-08-09T14:07:00 <+izua> Steffanx: hehe
2011-08-09T14:07:05 <+izua> those multi-monitor features are epic
2011-08-09T14:07:07 < Steffanx> For Altium you need at least 2 screens for the best experience
2011-08-09T14:07:09 <+izua> all software should be designed like that
2011-08-09T14:09:54 < dekar> Steffanx, "Whether this is true is especially significant if the work can be linked without the Library, or if the work is itself a library."
2011-08-09T14:10:08 < dekar> I don't think their lib is of ANY use without libusb
2011-08-09T14:10:59 < dekar> Dunno if it is enough to be a derived work, but it might
2011-08-09T14:11:10 <+izua> well
2011-08-09T14:11:16 <+izua> by that logic ati should also release their drivers
2011-08-09T14:11:23 <+izua> because they'd be useless without the linux kernel
2011-08-09T14:12:00 <+izua> i think it's not the actual drivers that they want to hide
2011-08-09T14:12:02 <+izua> but the protocol
2011-08-09T14:12:22 <+izua> and that's probably the case with most drivers out there.
2011-08-09T14:13:28 < dekar> izua, there has always been a lot of buzz about linux graphics drivers
2011-08-09T14:13:35 < dekar> especially the nvidia ones I think
2011-08-09T14:13:57 < dekar> also the nvidia ones link themselves during install
2011-08-09T14:14:04 < dekar> so the customer does that, not nvidia
2011-08-09T14:14:25 < dekar> I don't think it has ever been properly clarified whether they are legal
2011-08-09T14:15:46 < Steffanx> Not guilty until proven otherwise :)
2011-08-09T14:17:24 <+izua> i don't know if this matters
2011-08-09T14:17:49 <+izua> it's nice to have a kernel and os you can build from the ground up without depending on proprietary executables
2011-08-09T14:18:29 <+izua> but in the grand scheme of things people need to get work done
2011-08-09T14:19:56 < Steffanx> Hmpf, stock exchange is the most weird thing ever invented by humans
2011-08-09T14:20:25 <+izua> and you guys started it
2011-08-09T14:20:38 <+izua> with your tulip bets
2011-08-09T14:21:07 < Steffanx> How can something go to from 0.2% to -4 to -6 and back to -0.3% in a few hours
2011-08-09T14:23:42 < dekar> Steffanx, not guilty until proven otherwise doesn't apply to civil cases
2011-08-09T14:23:51 < dekar> civil law is different
2011-08-09T14:24:05 < Steffanx> Forget about civil law P
2011-08-09T14:24:10 < dekar> they lack a ton of object files btw :)
2011-08-09T14:24:26 < dekar> Steffanx, GPL related cases are civil law :P
2011-08-09T14:25:40 < Steffanx> Yay.. chrome and flash
2011-08-09T14:25:57 < Steffanx> Now i have another window in my browser
2011-08-09T14:26:59 < Steffanx> One i can literally look through
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2011-08-09T21:31:52 < Steffanx> izua i didn't solve the problem, but it seems to be a software issue
2011-08-09T21:32:43 < Steffanx> I added a correction for the sensor. Now i what full speed so i compile with O3, and i had to remove the correction to make it work properly
2011-08-09T21:40:29 < dekar> Did I mention they offered us the full source code under NDA?
2011-08-09T21:40:57 < dekar> I asked my co worker working with that thing and I guess he'll sign it
2011-08-09T21:42:34 < dekar> Steffanx, izua Anyway, I think I remember my problem with USB CDC - you have to install those inf files using administrative privileges
2011-08-09T21:42:57 < dekar> At least I found no way around that when doing it with my stm32
2011-08-09T21:43:24 < dekar> The windows CDC driver is only used for weird devices like samsung phones by default
2011-08-09T21:44:02 < dekar> So if you want to go installation free the ftdi is the way to go
2011-08-09T21:47:00 < dekar> That was the reason I nearly decided to go with an ftdi, just to get rid of any privileged installations
2011-08-09T21:47:19 < dekar> But well, USB HID worked out nicely
2011-08-09T21:51:20 < dekar> USB-HID gets me an equivalent of 512000 baud half duplex I think
2011-08-09T21:51:38 < dekar> 64 byte per 1ms
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2011-08-09T22:57:13 < dekar> no feedback? you can't be sleeping already
2011-08-09T23:45:13 < Steffanx> Don't you need admin privileges for all driver related shit on windows dekar ?
2011-08-09T23:46:58 < dekar> Nope, I used HID to make userspace drivers
2011-08-09T23:47:27 < Steffanx> Yeah, but for HID you don't have to 'install' anything
2011-08-09T23:47:44 < dekar> I don't think that's right as well
2011-08-09T23:47:58 <+izua> GOD DAMN IT
2011-08-09T23:48:05 < Steffanx> Ok, you have to 'install' something, but there's no need to select a driver for example
2011-08-09T23:48:06 <+izua> they used to say engineers are retards around here
2011-08-09T23:48:11 <+izua> so far i always proven that wrong
2011-08-09T23:48:12 <+izua> until today
2011-08-09T23:48:17 <+izua> so yeah
2011-08-09T23:48:21 < Steffanx> For CDC you have to select an .inf at least
2011-08-09T23:48:23 <+izua> i had to explain the benefactor of this device
2011-08-09T23:48:48 <+izua> that you can't specify a speed, distance and time arbitrarily for a acuator device DIRECTLY
2011-08-09T23:48:49 < dekar> Our webapplication loads up and you're good to go on windows
2011-08-09T23:48:53 <+izua> they need to be RELATED somehow
2011-08-09T23:49:01 < dekar> But on linux there is permission stuff
2011-08-09T23:49:02 <+izua> and he failed to understand that for a few hours
2011-08-09T23:49:17 < dekar> on OSX there is some kernel driver (kext) blocking HID as well
2011-08-09T23:49:31 < dekar> you need root to fix both of those issues
2011-08-09T23:49:35 < Steffanx> but CDC is faster :P
2011-08-09T23:49:45 < dekar> who gives a shit
2011-08-09T23:49:52 < Steffanx> I do
2011-08-09T23:49:55 < dekar> I don't
2011-08-09T23:50:08 < Steffanx> AND it's easier to use
2011-08-09T23:50:23 < Steffanx> Just a SerialPort Class is all you need
2011-08-09T23:50:38 < dekar> if you want speed and are fine with installing stuff you can just use USB bulk or isochronous
2011-08-09T23:51:10 < dekar> yeah use whatever you like, it wasn't an option for me
2011-08-09T23:51:14 < Steffanx> For HID you need libusb isn't it?
2011-08-09T23:51:33 < dekar> I'd rather have used an ft2232c/d than doing cdc
2011-08-09T23:51:35 < Steffanx> 'need'..
2011-08-09T23:51:39 < dekar> 'need'
2011-08-09T23:51:49 < Steffanx> When you want to do it for free
2011-08-09T23:51:51 < dekar> libusb doesn't actually support HID
2011-08-09T23:52:05 < dekar> they did for some version
2011-08-09T23:52:10 < Steffanx> You can get the commercial Jungo driver, but you've to pay for it
2011-08-09T23:52:10 < dekar> but dropped it
2011-08-09T23:52:25 < dekar> Steffanx, uhm HID is different
2011-08-09T23:52:31 < dekar> you don't need the libusb driver
2011-08-09T23:52:47 < dekar> you can use some version of libusb with the windows HID driver though
2011-08-09T23:52:58 < dekar> but it has been succeeded by HID-API
2011-08-09T23:53:08 < Steffanx> I only played with libusb + HID..
2011-08-09T23:53:17 < Steffanx> And some stupid Microchip pic :(
2011-08-09T23:53:44 < dekar> you can also use the microsoft api if you want
2011-08-09T23:53:47 <+izua> pics should die in a fire
2011-08-09T23:53:53 < dekar> izua, why?
2011-08-09T23:53:59 <+izua> have you tried them?
2011-08-09T23:54:07 < dekar> I only tried stm32 :)
2011-08-09T23:54:11 <+izua> lack of sane compile for the small families
2011-08-09T23:54:14 <+izua> compiler.
2011-08-09T23:54:15 < Steffanx> ARM + AVR :)
2011-08-09T23:54:16 < dekar> gotta try my gecko btw :D
2011-08-09T23:54:20 <+izua> assembly is horrible
2011-08-09T23:54:24 <+izua> you get like 368 bytes of ram
2011-08-09T23:54:25 <+izua> in 4 banks
2011-08-09T23:54:29 < dekar> haha
2011-08-09T23:54:30 < Steffanx> afaik msp isn't also that bad
2011-08-09T23:54:38 < dekar> not-so-sane design :)
2011-08-09T23:54:39 <+izua> and out of each 92 byte bank, 12 or so are shared
2011-08-09T23:54:44 < Steffanx> Yah, the banking shit is annoying
2011-08-09T23:55:07 < Steffanx> When you want to declare a 1000 byte buffer in RAM you have to do all kind of magic in the linker :S
2011-08-09T23:55:17 <+izua> so you basically got 92*4 addresses, and 12 are shared.
2011-08-09T23:55:22 <+izua> OH YEAH
2011-08-09T23:55:23 <+izua> that's epic
2011-08-09T23:55:28 <+izua> you get ONE REGISTER
2011-08-09T23:55:35 < Steffanx> The magic w register :)
2011-08-09T23:55:46 <+izua> you get 8 x 13 bits stack
2011-08-09T23:55:47 <+izua> IN HARDWARE
2011-08-09T23:55:57 <+izua> with no notification whatsoever if the stack overflows
2011-08-09T23:56:11 < dekar> Steffanx, so dunno what you meant when you said libusb 'driver' - you don't have to install anything, a usermode program using the windows api directly or indirectly is fine. no need for admin permissions, it works on limited office PCs etc
2011-08-09T23:56:13 < Steffanx> The great thing is.. the default assembler doesn't warn you when you forget the bank switch
2011-08-09T23:56:33 <+izua> because it can't know, i guess.
2011-08-09T23:56:36 < Steffanx> Which causes nice bugs in your app
2011-08-09T23:56:41 <+izua> there are some special macros
2011-08-09T23:56:43 < Steffanx> When you? I knows the instructions + where it is
2011-08-09T23:56:48 < Steffanx> *why
2011-08-09T23:56:52 < Steffanx> *WTF
2011-08-09T23:56:57 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-09T23:57:00 < Steffanx> Why i typed "When you?"
2011-08-09T23:57:08 <+izua> but you'll technically need to switch bank every time you address a register for it to work
2011-08-09T23:57:11 < Steffanx> It should be "Why not. It"
2011-08-09T23:57:11 <+izua> because
2011-08-09T23:57:16 <+izua> it can't know contextually what's the active bank.
2011-08-09T23:57:38 <+izua> so two (or three) extra wasted cycles just to address the right register.
2011-08-09T23:57:42 < Steffanx> It can help you a little with it.
2011-08-09T23:57:52 < dekar> izua, I guess I wouldn't get anything without GCC support
2011-08-09T23:57:54 < Steffanx> And it doesn't
2011-08-09T23:58:10 <+izua> dekar: the thing is
2011-08-09T23:58:11 < dekar> don't feel like being forced to learn weird asm
2011-08-09T23:58:13 <+izua> pics are cheap
2011-08-09T23:58:15 <+izua> really really really cheap
2011-08-09T23:58:28 < Steffanx> It was some libusb .net api that handled the hid reports
2011-08-09T23:58:30 < Steffanx> dekar
2011-08-09T23:58:32 < dekar> stm32 are like $2 and my projects sell at hundreds ;)
2011-08-09T23:58:39 < Steffanx> Don't know the details, i didn't write it
2011-08-09T23:58:47 < dekar> Steffanx, did you have to install the driver?
2011-08-09T23:58:51 <+izua> most people only care about 1 pcs
2011-08-09T23:58:51 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-09T23:58:55 < dekar> k
2011-08-09T23:59:00 <+izua> not by the thousand ;P
2011-08-09T23:59:05 <+izua> in bulk yeah, everything is cheap
2011-08-09T23:59:13 < Steffanx> Just the default hid stuff dekar
2011-08-09T23:59:18 < dekar> Steffanx, they dropped that - you can't do what you did anymore
2011-08-09T23:59:31 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-09T23:59:35 < dekar> dunno why they drop perfectly working features
2011-08-09T23:59:38 <+izua> dekar: is your build env sane?
2011-08-09T23:59:49 <+izua> i mean, if i delete most of your flexoptix stuff
2011-08-09T23:59:50 < dekar> it was just a wrapper for the m$ hid api
2011-08-09T23:59:51 <+izua> and put the cdc example
2011-08-09T23:59:54 <+izua> or hid example
--- Day changed Wed Aug 10 2011
2011-08-10T00:00:01 < dekar> izua, yeah pretty sane
2011-08-10T00:00:05 <+izua> it will link with the cmsis and usb libs?
2011-08-10T00:00:16 < dekar> I rebuild my environment several times
2011-08-10T00:00:30 < dekar> my first try had tons of patches in the ST lib XD
2011-08-10T00:00:40 <+izua> i have started about 1 month ago to build a custom env
2011-08-10T00:00:41 < dekar> I didn't really understand how they meant it to be used
2011-08-10T00:00:45 <+izua> so i can use vim for everything, everywhere
2011-08-10T00:00:55 < dekar> just use my makefile
2011-08-10T00:00:56 <+izua> yeah, that's what i tried for a few hours, and gave up latter when busy
2011-08-10T00:01:06 <+izua> basically dropped everything in a folder
2011-08-10T00:01:10 <+izua> and started hacking through deps
2011-08-10T00:01:13 <+izua> probably not the best way to use it
2011-08-10T00:01:16 < dekar> you can set the path to the toolchain in my makefile and you're good to go
2011-08-10T00:02:10 < dekar> I think I'll add cdc to my code
2011-08-10T00:02:15 < dekar> so I can use HID and CDC
2011-08-10T00:02:25 < Steffanx> CDC, you?!
2011-08-10T00:02:28 < dekar> since CDC doesn't need drivers on linux
2011-08-10T00:02:34 <+izua> dekar: why don't you add a ft232 cheap
2011-08-10T00:02:35 < dekar> and less permission changes
2011-08-10T00:02:39 <+izua> chip
2011-08-10T00:02:40 <+izua> WTF
2011-08-10T00:02:44 < dekar> izua, I can't add it in software
2011-08-10T00:02:47 <+izua> and use it to do rx/tx with your stm
2011-08-10T00:02:54 <+izua> compromise solution, but it works best imo
2011-08-10T00:03:07 <+izua> no drivers required, either on the pc, or on the embedded side
2011-08-10T00:03:12 < dekar> izua, nah - I don't care that much about linux anyway
2011-08-10T00:03:17 < Steffanx> The ft232 costs more than a stm32 :P
2011-08-10T00:03:23 < dekar> besides we have a .dep and .rpm to set custom udev rules
2011-08-10T00:03:32 < dekar> Steffanx, yeah - sucks so hard :/
2011-08-10T00:03:34 <+izua> Steffanx: yes but he ain't payin
2011-08-10T00:03:47 < Steffanx> Microchip also has something similar..
2011-08-10T00:03:50 <+izua> plus
2011-08-10T00:03:54 < Steffanx> I don't think that on is that bad at all
2011-08-10T00:03:54 <+izua> you could probably get a ft245
2011-08-10T00:03:54 < dekar> if we'd go ftdi - then we'd use a ft2232c for full backwards compatibility
2011-08-10T00:03:58 < Steffanx> And it's cheaper
2011-08-10T00:04:01 <+izua> and do everything, i2c bitbang, etc, completely in software
2011-08-10T00:04:02 < dekar> that thing is like $10 iirc
2011-08-10T00:04:29 <+izua> isn't the mpsse in ft2232 flawed?
2011-08-10T00:04:33 < dekar> flexBox1 is using ft2232c
2011-08-10T00:04:38 < dekar> nope, i2c is
2011-08-10T00:04:47 < dekar> they fixed it with ft2232h
2011-08-10T00:04:50 < dekar> I think
2011-08-10T00:04:58 < dekar> I actually have some - somewhere
2011-08-10T00:04:59 < Steffanx> MCP2200
2011-08-10T00:05:14 < dekar> I think I tried it like two years ago and it was much better
2011-08-10T00:05:16 <+izua> MPSSE.
2011-08-10T00:05:18 <+izua> that.
2011-08-10T00:05:24 <+izua> doesn't i2c belong to the MPSSE?
2011-08-10T00:05:27 < dekar> the i2c is on top of MPSSE
2011-08-10T00:05:30 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-10T00:05:35 <+izua> my point was
2011-08-10T00:05:35 < Steffanx> Microchips chips aren't that bad, except their 8bit uc line
2011-08-10T00:05:38 < dekar> MPSSE lacks a feature to do i2c properly
2011-08-10T00:05:45 <+izua> why even bother with hardware stuff like that
2011-08-10T00:05:51 < dekar> it has timing problems, rises clock and data at the same time
2011-08-10T00:05:52 <+izua> when you can do it completely in software, packetized, with a ft245
2011-08-10T00:06:02 <+izua> you just dump data in a buffer, and specify a sample rate
2011-08-10T00:06:17 < dekar> izua, cause I got a perfectly working STM32 solution
2011-08-10T00:06:25 <+izua> i mean, for the initial version :P
2011-08-10T00:06:44 < dekar> oh - cause they all were scared by electronics
2011-08-10T00:06:47 < dekar> and i2c
2011-08-10T00:06:55 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T00:06:58 <+izua> exactly my point
2011-08-10T00:07:00 < dekar> there was only one guy doing the development
2011-08-10T00:07:00 <+izua> do it IN SOFTWARE
2011-08-10T00:07:06 <+izua> mess with it from your code and make it work
2011-08-10T00:07:08 <+izua> it's code
2011-08-10T00:07:14 <+izua> don't let some weird chip do it for you
2011-08-10T00:07:16 < dekar> so they got the i2c lib ftdichip offers
2011-08-10T00:07:31 <+izua> i suppose
2011-08-10T00:07:33 < dekar> izua, oh - don't ever bitbang over USB
2011-08-10T00:07:40 <+izua> i never said bitbang
2011-08-10T00:07:40 < dekar> timings go waii off
2011-08-10T00:07:47 <+izua> 00:06 <+izua> you just dump data in a buffer, and specify a sample rate
2011-08-10T00:07:57 < dekar> doesn't work for ftdi
2011-08-10T00:08:05 <+izua> you can specify like 256 bytes and the sample out rate
2011-08-10T00:08:15 <+izua> ft245 dude
2011-08-10T00:08:21 <+izua> it's a dedicated 'parallel io' chip
2011-08-10T00:08:35 < dekar> hm it still has to send acks in time
2011-08-10T00:08:43 < dekar> I think that's where it fails
2011-08-10T00:08:44 <+izua> it's rather timing accurate too if you work on a low enough sample rate, somewhere around 19200 seems to be its top
2011-08-10T00:08:50 < dekar> it has to ack incoming data
2011-08-10T00:08:54 < dekar> in time
2011-08-10T00:09:06 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T00:09:10 <+izua> so just presend the ack?
2011-08-10T00:09:21 <+izua> also you don't need to ack the data IN TIME
2011-08-10T00:09:23 <+izua> that's the point of i2c
2011-08-10T00:09:24 < dekar> izua, you remember that trace I showed you? of the i2c host (ft2232c) doing slave style clock stretching?
2011-08-10T00:09:32 <+izua> that's not wrong
2011-08-10T00:09:33 < dekar> well you have
2011-08-10T00:09:45 <+izua> it means "i'm not ready for your crap yet, hold on"
2011-08-10T00:09:47 < dekar> it is, we have tons of problems with that
2011-08-10T00:09:48 <+izua> and it's perfectly legal.
2011-08-10T00:09:59 <+izua> that means other devices aren't implementing it right.
2011-08-10T00:10:03 < dekar> izua, I know, tons of slaves still hate you for doing it
2011-08-10T00:10:12 < dekar> izua, I2C is an industry standard
2011-08-10T00:10:13 <+izua> it seems fail
2011-08-10T00:10:17 <+izua> not to support part of the protocol
2011-08-10T00:10:19 < dekar> it's not like it's a proper standard
2011-08-10T00:10:21 <+izua> because it's a bitch to implement
2011-08-10T00:10:27 < dekar> everyone implements it like they want
2011-08-10T00:10:55 <+izua> i have to implement a way
2011-08-10T00:11:01 < dekar> izua, so yeah it might be valid according to the philips implementation or something
2011-08-10T00:11:07 <+izua> where you can specifiy the speed, distance and time of a motion
2011-08-10T00:11:11 < dekar> but it won't work for like 5% of the slaves
2011-08-10T00:11:13 <+izua> and they don't always have to be related
2011-08-10T00:11:19 <+izua> halp?
2011-08-10T00:11:25 < dekar> and we have millions of slave devices from millions of suppliers
2011-08-10T00:11:51 < dekar> izua, didn't I suggest teleportation?
2011-08-10T00:11:53 < Steffanx> Most of them are i2c compatible
2011-08-10T00:11:55 <+izua> yeah, a dedicated and timed solution was way better
2011-08-10T00:12:03 < Steffanx> Just because they don't want to pay philips
2011-08-10T00:12:04 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-10T00:12:11 < Steffanx> Atmel does it with their TWI
2011-08-10T00:12:18 <+izua> no because with teleportation, you'd be having +inf speed for an instant
2011-08-10T00:12:22 < Steffanx> it's i2c compatible :)
2011-08-10T00:12:26 < dekar> Steffanx, I have a ton of devices that will randomly stop sending data if the host does clock stretching
2011-08-10T00:12:39 < dekar> those are transceivers worth 5k€
2011-08-10T00:12:43 < Steffanx> That's the idea of compatible :)
2011-08-10T00:12:52 < Steffanx> It's not meant to be 100% functional :P
2011-08-10T00:13:02 < dekar> they work fine inside switches
2011-08-10T00:13:13 < dekar> well yeah - still the FTDI implementation sucks
2011-08-10T00:13:17 < Steffanx> Ever seen a 'compatible with ..' product that works like it should?
2011-08-10T00:13:20 < dekar> I need realtime to support ALL slaves
2011-08-10T00:13:31 < dekar> and STM32 gave me realtime
2011-08-10T00:15:48 < dekar> izua, Steffanx we often have transceivers that can't be read/written when the host is running windows media player, using an external HDD, bad quality cables, a usb hub - or sometimes even no usb hub
2011-08-10T00:16:00 <+izua> yes
2011-08-10T00:16:05 <+izua> because usb is cool like that
2011-08-10T00:16:10 <+izua> entirely dependent on the software layer
2011-08-10T00:16:21 < Steffanx> Firewire ftw?
2011-08-10T00:16:28 < dekar> izua, it's not a USB problem douche - just usb doesn't offering REALTIME
2011-08-10T00:16:40 <+izua> sure it's a usb problem
2011-08-10T00:16:43 < dekar> the i2c timings go nuts
2011-08-10T00:16:43 <+izua> they replaced something good
2011-08-10T00:16:50 <+izua> LIKE THE PARALLEL PORT
2011-08-10T00:16:53 <+izua> with something crappy
2011-08-10T00:16:54 < dekar> agree
2011-08-10T00:16:55 <+izua> but nice and shiny
2011-08-10T00:16:56 < Steffanx> Ah, no firewire is an apple thing.. izua doesn't like apple
2011-08-10T00:17:06 <+izua> windows doesn't even support firewire
2011-08-10T00:17:14 <+izua> and there's sata if you want speed.. :P
2011-08-10T00:17:16 < dekar> who uses that windows thing anyway?
2011-08-10T00:17:27 <+izua> pretty much everyone that does engineering :P
2011-08-10T00:17:42 < dekar> I don't think sata gives you raltime
2011-08-10T00:17:44 <+izua> or doesn't care _that_ much about computers etc
2011-08-10T00:17:46 < dekar> *realtime
2011-08-10T00:17:53 <+izua> ethernet does
2011-08-10T00:17:57 <+izua> and specifically, ethercat.
2011-08-10T00:18:12 <+izua> sata gives you a lot of bandwidth though:D
2011-08-10T00:18:14 < dekar> I guess, if you don't have a collision domain
2011-08-10T00:18:18 < dekar> and a RT OS
2011-08-10T00:18:42 < dekar> having a dedicated µC is still the best choice
2011-08-10T00:19:22 < dekar> but imagine our support telling the customers to try not running media player, switching usb ports, trying another hub/no-hub etc
2011-08-10T00:19:32 < dekar> so much fun
2011-08-10T00:19:38 < dekar> and we only have sold like 100
2011-08-10T00:20:03 <+izua> neat
2011-08-10T00:20:04 < dekar> we often have transceivers that can only be written at some PCs
2011-08-10T00:20:07 <+izua> ethernet would have been tits
2011-08-10T00:20:17 < dekar> I like ethernet
2011-08-10T00:20:21  * izua does too
2011-08-10T00:20:26 < dekar> gotta get one of those ethernet capable stm32
2011-08-10T00:20:30  * izua wrote a tiny tcp-like stack for avr some years ago
2011-08-10T00:20:32 < dekar> uhm stm32f2
2011-08-10T00:20:39 <+izua> f107 i think does eth too
2011-08-10T00:20:46 < dekar> I want f2 anyway
2011-08-10T00:20:50 < Steffanx> Who doesn't
2011-08-10T00:20:52 < dekar> new OC records
2011-08-10T00:21:00 < Steffanx> dekar likes overkill
2011-08-10T00:21:04 <+izua> Steffanx: avrs are like 1/100 of a stm32
2011-08-10T00:21:11 <+izua> of a STM32F100 like o nthe discovery board
2011-08-10T00:21:16 < dekar> Steffanx, I just have the budget - you'd do the same
2011-08-10T00:21:17 <+izua> shitload of timers and extra hardware, etc
2011-08-10T00:21:33 < Steffanx> True, i'll use stm32 for most projects now
2011-08-10T00:21:47 < Steffanx> Unless i need nice power saving technics
2011-08-10T00:21:51 < Steffanx> I prefer AVR for that
2011-08-10T00:22:16 < dekar> Steffanx, I have 2 barely used panda boards at the company atm - no one needs them anymore
2011-08-10T00:22:28 < dekar> some co-workers bought them and dropped the idea of using them
2011-08-10T00:22:29 < Steffanx> Want my address? :P
2011-08-10T00:22:33 < dekar> that was overkill
2011-08-10T00:22:41 < Steffanx> I can 'use' them :P
2011-08-10T00:22:42 < dekar> they're like dualcore 1,2ghz ARM
2011-08-10T00:22:49 <+izua> dekar: please please please send me one :P
2011-08-10T00:22:53 < dekar> :P
2011-08-10T00:22:59 <+izua> i'll even pay for its worth etc
2011-08-10T00:23:09 <+izua> when i wanted to get one from digikey
2011-08-10T00:23:14 < dekar> I've reserved one of them for me already
2011-08-10T00:23:15 <+izua> they wanted like €120 for the board (beagle, not panda)
2011-08-10T00:23:20 <+izua> and €150 for shipping.
2011-08-10T00:23:26 < Steffanx> Why not in watterot?
2011-08-10T00:23:30 < Steffanx> In Germany
2011-08-10T00:23:52 <+izua> watterott.de?
2011-08-10T00:24:12 < Steffanx> .com
2011-08-10T00:24:13 < dekar> so what I mean - others at the company care far less about wasting money than I do
2011-08-10T00:24:25 <+izua> Steffanx: fail?
2011-08-10T00:24:29 < Steffanx> Website seems to be down
2011-08-10T00:24:50 < dekar> I bought the cheap stm32 boards from futurlec while they bought panda boards thinking they could drive a display using them
2011-08-10T00:25:00 < dekar> I think they failed, like in horribly
2011-08-10T00:25:11 < dekar> they wanted to use the GPIOs of them I think
2011-08-10T00:25:14 <+izua> if i'd want something embedded
2011-08-10T00:25:18 <+izua> i'd get something like this
2011-08-10T00:25:19 <+izua> http://www.emag.ro/placi_baza/placa-de-baza-intel-boxd425kt-intel-atom-425--pBOXD425KT
2011-08-10T00:25:20 < Steffanx> http://www.watterott.com/ it's the one izua
2011-08-10T00:25:22 <+izua> (romanian, but anyway)
2011-08-10T00:25:31 <+izua> 170x170 mm
2011-08-10T00:25:32 <+izua> parallel port
2011-08-10T00:25:37 < Steffanx> I ordered my stm32 discovery + lpcxpresso from them
2011-08-10T00:25:47 <+izua> vga output
2011-08-10T00:25:51 < Steffanx> Germany is a nice place to get cheaper electronics :)
2011-08-10T00:25:57 < Steffanx> Everything here in NL is too expensive
2011-08-10T00:25:57 <+izua> about €60.
2011-08-10T00:26:07 < dekar> izua, they wanted some LVDS display I think
2011-08-10T00:26:16 < Steffanx> I also want a nice atom board..
2011-08-10T00:26:22 < dekar> and use another bunch of GPIO for a touch foil
2011-08-10T00:26:30 < Steffanx> Just al little server for small things
2011-08-10T00:26:33 < Steffanx> *as
2011-08-10T00:26:40 < dekar> they were like "hey writing linux kernel modules can't be hard - I know java!"
2011-08-10T00:26:44 <+izua> zROFL
2011-08-10T00:26:58 < dekar> one of them just got phd
2011-08-10T00:27:01 <+izua> i wrote a module once
2011-08-10T00:27:04 < Steffanx> Uhm?!
2011-08-10T00:27:14 <+izua> that erred some custom message in the /var/log/messages :D
2011-08-10T00:27:54 < dekar> I don't think I'd buy futurlec boards anymore
2011-08-10T00:27:56 <+izua> it took me like 2 hours of digging random crap
2011-08-10T00:28:00 <+izua> dekar: eh
2011-08-10T00:28:02 <+izua> stm32 is neat
2011-08-10T00:28:04 <+izua> as a microcontroller
2011-08-10T00:28:16 < Steffanx> What's wrong with futurlec dekar ?
2011-08-10T00:28:19 < dekar> yeah, but the official evalboards are more convenient
2011-08-10T00:28:23 <+izua> but you have to actually like this mcu deal/minimalistic approach to appreciate them :P
2011-08-10T00:28:30 < dekar> the examples work out of the box etc
2011-08-10T00:28:48 <+izua> you just have to change the pins
2011-08-10T00:28:49 <+izua> for leds/etc
2011-08-10T00:28:55 < dekar> I just bought from futurlec since I never had a µC and was pretty sure I would horribly fail
2011-08-10T00:29:06 < dekar> izua, I know, I did that :P
2011-08-10T00:29:16 <+izua> now please
2011-08-10T00:29:19 <+izua> surrender your build env :P
2011-08-10T00:29:25 < dekar> nah
2011-08-10T00:29:29 < dekar> not yet
2011-08-10T00:29:32 < dekar> :P
2011-08-10T00:29:45 < dekar> I guess I'll do it later this week
2011-08-10T00:29:45 <+izua> just don't put in the flexoptix stuff
2011-08-10T00:30:08 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-10T00:30:13 <+izua> or your makefile ? :D
2011-08-10T00:30:20 < dekar> the USB stuff is basically flexoptix stuff
2011-08-10T00:30:28 < dekar> you can have the makefile, sure
2011-08-10T00:34:10 <+izua> i really don't care about those
2011-08-10T00:34:13 <+izua> i just want to compile an example
2011-08-10T00:34:15 <+izua> see it work
2011-08-10T00:34:17 <+izua> figure out how it works
2011-08-10T00:34:20 <+izua> than make my own usb lib
2011-08-10T00:34:33 <+izua> although that could also be nice
2011-08-10T00:36:07 < dekar> izua, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/Makefile_STM32_no_fo
2011-08-10T00:37:41 < dekar> to get that build information stuff working just touch those files
2011-08-10T00:37:51 < dekar> build number, date and version
2011-08-10T00:38:06 < dekar> it auto increments the number each time you compile
2011-08-10T00:38:35 < dekar> I use that for my usb firmware update to decide whether it's outdated
2011-08-10T00:39:05 < dekar> just drop the "STM32_USB-FS-Device_Lib_V3.2.1" in your build folder
2011-08-10T00:43:04 < dekar> izua, it uses the startup code from the ST lib
2011-08-10T00:43:10 < dekar> do you want my linkerscript as well?
2011-08-10T00:43:23 <+izua> might be rather helpful too :P
2011-08-10T00:43:36 < dekar> nothing special, I took it from some IDE
2011-08-10T00:43:41 < dekar> RIDE I think
2011-08-10T00:44:08 < Steffanx> Not even TruStudio?
2011-08-10T00:44:19 < Steffanx> I always use that
2011-08-10T00:44:27 < dekar> idk, something that came on the CD
2011-08-10T00:44:33 < dekar> and that was using GCC
2011-08-10T00:45:10 < dekar> Copyright RAISONANCE 2005 You can use, modify and distribute thisfile freely, but without any waranty.
2011-08-10T00:45:17 < dekar> works for me
2011-08-10T00:45:47 < dekar> it only supports C, if you want C++ there are at least 2 different linkerscripts I found at the ST forums
2011-08-10T00:46:06 <+izua> wth would you want C++ on a mcu ._.
2011-08-10T00:46:10 < dekar> dunno
2011-08-10T00:46:13 <+izua> esp bareboard
2011-08-10T00:46:13 < dekar> I only do C
2011-08-10T00:46:24 < dekar> well C++ can be nice
2011-08-10T00:46:35 < dekar> but it comes with overhead
2011-08-10T00:46:38 <+izua> extra overhead
2011-08-10T00:46:39 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T00:46:39 < Steffanx> As long as you don't use the fanct c++ features it's ok..
2011-08-10T00:46:47 < Steffanx> fancy
2011-08-10T00:46:59 < dekar> Steffanx, still you have to drop exception support and so on to make it reasonable small
2011-08-10T00:47:02 <+izua> stdlib
2011-08-10T00:47:10 < dekar> it isn't C++ anymore after you did
2011-08-10T00:47:11 < Steffanx> Yeah, that's one of the fancy features :P
2011-08-10T00:47:14 <+izua> you can do classes with some macros in C iirc
2011-08-10T00:47:23 <+izua> i know a guy at school who did some neat shit
2011-08-10T00:47:25 <+izua> erm, teacher
2011-08-10T00:47:29 <+izua> class-like behaviour, i mean
2011-08-10T00:47:53 < dekar> izua, just pass structs to classes instead of calling methods of structs
2011-08-10T00:48:04 <+izua> to functions?
2011-08-10T00:48:06 < dekar> *to functions
2011-08-10T00:48:08 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-10T00:48:08 < dekar> XD
2011-08-10T00:48:09 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T00:48:34 < dekar> doesn't really matter unless you do the inheritance stuff
2011-08-10T00:48:37 <+izua> basically a macro to do a (self*, ...)
2011-08-10T00:48:44 < dekar> public, private and so on
2011-08-10T00:48:44 <+izua> that's horrible on a mcu
2011-08-10T00:49:00 < dekar> if it gets big you should go C++
2011-08-10T00:49:11 < dekar> on a 512kb stm32 you really can do it
2011-08-10T00:49:28 <+izua> yeah but that' just wasteful and retarded unless you're prototyping
2011-08-10T00:49:46 < Steffanx> Some people totally disagree with that
2011-08-10T00:49:50 < dekar> nope, it makes sense for multi developer projects - especially when huge
2011-08-10T00:50:04 <+izua> Steffanx: the arduino crowd?
2011-08-10T00:50:05 <+izua> fuck em
2011-08-10T00:50:08 < dekar> fuck you
2011-08-10T00:50:09 < Steffanx> No, not them
2011-08-10T00:50:18 <+izua> dekar: got your arduino yet? :D
2011-08-10T00:50:22 < dekar> nope
2011-08-10T00:50:28 < dekar> dunno if I ever get one
2011-08-10T00:50:29 <+izua> Steffanx: uh i guess
2011-08-10T00:50:30 < dekar> but I like them
2011-08-10T00:50:36 < dekar> dunno why you constantly flame them
2011-08-10T00:50:40 <+izua> but extra bullcrap for the sake of pretty code
2011-08-10T00:50:42 <+izua> esp on a mcu
2011-08-10T00:50:50 <+izua> it's just.. wrong
2011-08-10T00:50:52 < Steffanx> I don't really care about the code..
2011-08-10T00:50:56 < Steffanx> or the ugly code
2011-08-10T00:50:59 <+izua> same.
2011-08-10T00:51:04 < dekar> "look at me, I am a hacker, I write assembly on my µC!"
2011-08-10T00:51:10 <+izua> as long as it's functional and manageable
2011-08-10T00:51:21 <+izua> says the guy that writes thumb2? xD
2011-08-10T00:51:22 < Steffanx> I DO care about the !@#$%ˆ&*(*&$  lazy kiddies that want to use Arduino
2011-08-10T00:51:30 < dekar> izua, only inline for parts
2011-08-10T00:51:43 < dekar> izua, you need assembly to make a bootloader
2011-08-10T00:51:49 < Steffanx> You do?
2011-08-10T00:51:57 <+izua> hm
2011-08-10T00:51:58 < Steffanx> Then STM32 sucks
2011-08-10T00:51:59 < dekar> I barely use assembly
2011-08-10T00:52:08 < Laurenceb_> lol
2011-08-10T00:52:12 < Steffanx> You can even write bootloader for AVR's with C only
2011-08-10T00:52:14 <+izua> dekar: why for?
2011-08-10T00:52:15 < Steffanx> (and some macro's)
2011-08-10T00:52:15 < dekar> Steffanx, you have to reset the stack pointer for example
2011-08-10T00:52:17 <+izua> Steffanx: yeah
2011-08-10T00:52:23 <+izua> and you can
2011-08-10T00:52:26 <+izua> write to the register?
2011-08-10T00:52:33 < dekar> yeah well :/
2011-08-10T00:52:48 < dekar> maybe you could, it's not like my five lines of assembly hurt anyone
2011-08-10T00:52:55 <+izua> ah definitely
2011-08-10T00:52:58 < dekar> unportable code non the less
2011-08-10T00:52:59 < Steffanx> Inline assembly sucks
2011-08-10T00:53:04 < Steffanx> The syntax is horrible
2011-08-10T00:53:07 < dekar> agree
2011-08-10T00:53:08 < dekar> w/e
2011-08-10T00:53:16 <+izua> you can't do mcu stuff and ask for portability
2011-08-10T00:53:21 < dekar> I can
2011-08-10T00:53:23 <+izua> well,probably in the same family
2011-08-10T00:53:31 < dekar> CMSIS anyone?
2011-08-10T00:53:32 <+izua> you're a mac user, no arguments here :P
2011-08-10T00:54:14 < Steffanx> Time to continue "Game of Thrones"
2011-08-10T00:54:15 <+izua> i'm not sure cmsis specifies perihpheral interfaces
2011-08-10T00:54:19 < dekar> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/stm32_linkerscript.tar.bz2
2011-08-10T00:54:33 < dekar> Steffanx, do I wanna watch that as well?
2011-08-10T00:54:51 < Steffanx> If you like titties :P
2011-08-10T00:54:57 < dekar> I got it already, but the fantasy/middle age stuff kept me off
2011-08-10T00:55:09 < Steffanx> I like that
2011-08-10T00:55:17 < dekar> I like "suits"
2011-08-10T00:55:26 < Steffanx> The fantasy/middle age idea
2011-08-10T00:55:34 < dekar> uhm yeah there's other movies for titties
2011-08-10T00:56:17 < Steffanx> When you prefer nakes kids you should definitely  watch it
2011-08-10T00:56:26 < Steffanx> Don't ask why, but you see them :S
2011-08-10T00:56:39 < dekar> lol
2011-08-10T00:56:46 <+izua> dekar: what script should i use out of all those?
2011-08-10T00:56:51 < dekar> just use my makefile
2011-08-10T00:56:59 < dekar> it magically just works
2011-08-10T00:57:15 < dekar> drop it in the same folder
2011-08-10T00:57:20 < dekar> that folder I gave you
2011-08-10T00:57:21 <+izua> LINKERSCRIPT = stm32_linkerscript
2011-08-10T00:57:36 <+izua> there's no stm32_linkerscript file
2011-08-10T00:57:43 < dekar> it's the folder name
2011-08-10T00:57:52 <+izua> ahhh.
2011-08-10T00:58:30 <+izua> failnoob is fail.
2011-08-10T01:07:29 <+izua> hmhm
2011-08-10T01:07:35 <+izua> i have STM32_USB-FS-Device_Lib_V3.3.0
2011-08-10T01:07:54 <+izua> your makefile wants STM32_USB-FS-Device_Driver
2011-08-10T01:08:00 <+izua> not the same thing, eh?
2011-08-10T01:08:16 <+izua> or hm nevermind
2011-08-10T01:08:19 <+izua> it's a path around that
2011-08-10T01:09:49 < dekar> I dunno whether it works out of the box with the new version
2011-08-10T01:10:01 <+izua> gonna figure it out
2011-08-10T01:10:03 < dekar> want the version I use for first testing?
2011-08-10T01:10:13 <+izua> at least i have a sne env now
2011-08-10T01:10:17 <+izua> well, i hope.
2011-08-10T01:10:33 <+izua> still trying to wipe what i don't need from your makefile
2011-08-10T01:12:21 < dekar> it works with the 3.2.1 without any patches to the lib for me
2011-08-10T01:12:36 < dekar> I just extracted it and didn't even change the folder structure
2011-08-10T01:15:13 < dekar> izua, sne env? what does sne mean?
2011-08-10T01:16:48 <+izua> sane :P
2011-08-10T01:18:39 < dekar> izua, why don't you use some windows IDE?
2011-08-10T01:18:49 < dekar> I heard you like GUI stuff
2011-08-10T01:18:54 <+izua> because all are retarded
2011-08-10T01:18:57 < dekar> lol
2011-08-10T01:19:01 <+izua> and i like my vim
2011-08-10T01:19:24 < dekar> replace altium with vim :D
2011-08-10T01:19:32 <+izua> i like vim for text editing
2011-08-10T01:19:41 < dekar> izua, so you really know vim? all the commands etc?
2011-08-10T01:19:49 <+izua> some basic stuff
2011-08-10T01:19:59 < dekar> izua, how to jump to line 1337?
2011-08-10T01:20:05 <+izua> for example, di} deletes the block encompassed by the }
2011-08-10T01:20:06 <+izua> 1337gg
2011-08-10T01:20:08 < dekar> :D
2011-08-10T01:20:12 <+izua> 5j
2011-08-10T01:20:25 < Steffanx> you never jump to line 1337
2011-08-10T01:20:34 < dekar> I only know the jump and the dd command
2011-08-10T01:20:38 <+izua> 5k i mean :P
2011-08-10T01:20:52 < Steffanx> Just because a file with 1337 is madness
2011-08-10T01:20:52 <+izua> 10d deletes 10 lines for instance
2011-08-10T01:20:58 < Steffanx> 1337 linds
2011-08-10T01:21:06 <+izua> p pastes them after, P before
2011-08-10T01:21:08 < Steffanx> es
2011-08-10T01:21:11 < dekar> Steffanx, it's handy once the gcc reports an error at some line to be able to jump to it
2011-08-10T01:21:34 <+izua> you can make from vim
2011-08-10T01:21:41 < Steffanx> Yes, but 1337 lines in one file is still madness
2011-08-10T01:21:43 <+izua> and it can autojump to the line
2011-08-10T01:21:55 <+izua> the current one for the orbital wlder has like 2k lines
2011-08-10T01:21:58 < dekar> Steffanx, obvious troll is obvious :P
2011-08-10T01:22:11 <+izua> didn't bother to split it up :P
2011-08-10T01:22:19 < Steffanx> It's not a troll it's the truth
2011-08-10T01:22:31 < dekar> Steffanx, I was just using $number
2011-08-10T01:23:04 < dekar> besides sometimes files go big
2011-08-10T01:23:47 < Steffanx> You don't like movies with close ups like this dekar ?
2011-08-10T01:23:47 < dekar> I think the Qt main window class I have is like 800 lines - and that's no actual program code, just the slots
2011-08-10T01:23:47 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/MPlayerX-20110810-002310.jpg
2011-08-10T01:23:53 < Steffanx> nsfw :P
2011-08-10T01:24:05 <+izua> god damn it dude
2011-08-10T01:24:11 <+izua> you use so much crap in that makefile xD
2011-08-10T01:24:23 <+izua> $(BUILD_DATE_FILE): $(COBJ) $(AOBJ) @if ! test -f $(BUILD_DATE_FILE); then touch $(BUILD_DATE_FILE); fi @echo $$(date +%Y%m%d-%H%M%S > $(BUILD_DATE_FILE))
2011-08-10T01:24:35 < Steffanx> Fancy
2011-08-10T01:24:54 < dekar> I totally like that
2011-08-10T01:25:13 < dekar> took me like an hour to get that right :P
2011-08-10T01:25:21 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-10T01:25:37 < dekar> it really is handy to read the date etc from my GUI
2011-08-10T01:25:46 <+izua> ah, definitely
2011-08-10T01:25:48 < dekar> I will need something like that for firmware updates anyway
2011-08-10T01:26:18 < dekar> it is supposed to show the build date/version somewhere at the final product so customers can report the version they had problems with
2011-08-10T01:29:09 <+izua> dekar: you seem to use the CMSIS directly from the USB libs.
2011-08-10T01:29:13 <+izua> is this expected behaviour?
2011-08-10T01:30:09 < dekar> izua, dunno what you mean
2011-08-10T01:30:25 < dekar> compiling and linking?
2011-08-10T01:30:56 <+izua> nvm
2011-08-10T01:31:00 <+izua> think i took care of everything.
2011-08-10T01:31:28 < dekar> "rm -Rf ."?
2011-08-10T01:31:33 <+izua> lol xD
2011-08-10T01:31:40 < dekar> don't change to much
2011-08-10T01:31:45 < dekar> it works really well
2011-08-10T01:31:46 <+izua> where do i put the sources?
2011-08-10T01:31:56 < dekar> drop them in the folder
2011-08-10T01:32:01 < dekar> main.c next to the makefile
2011-08-10T01:32:08 <+izua> i changed the path to the lib, binaries and removed all that linux tools things
2011-08-10T01:32:16 <+izua> what about the other files?
2011-08-10T01:32:25 < dekar> where ever you like
2011-08-10T01:32:39 < dekar> you can actually place them all where ever you like
2011-08-10T01:32:48 <+izua> neat
2011-08-10T01:32:49 < dekar> just make sure to add them to the makefile
2011-08-10T01:32:52 <+izua> so it scans all dirs etc
2011-08-10T01:32:57 <+izua> SHIT
2011-08-10T01:33:00 < dekar> nope, doesn't scan
2011-08-10T01:33:09  * izua made his own makefile
2011-08-10T01:33:09 < dekar> you have to write down every single name :P
2011-08-10T01:33:14 <+izua> scans everything in /src
2011-08-10T01:33:24 < dekar> I know you can do that, didn't want that
2011-08-10T01:33:31 <+izua> myeah, i guess
2011-08-10T01:33:37 < dekar> I sometimes copy files, don't want to compile them in that case
2011-08-10T01:33:47 <+izua> _SRC ?
2011-08-10T01:34:04 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-10T01:35:16 <+izua> IT HAS STARTED
2011-08-10T01:35:23 <+izua> stm32f10x not found.
2011-08-10T01:35:23 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-10T01:35:53 <+izua> something is missing.
2011-08-10T01:36:04 <+izua> probably that file.
2011-08-10T01:37:00 <+izua> path error methinks
2011-08-10T01:39:41 <+izua> dude i am confus
2011-08-10T01:40:14 <+izua> it creates the libs in /build and then has src/ dirs in each one ._.
2011-08-10T01:40:50 <+izua> it also copied the linkerscript, hm.
2011-08-10T01:45:06 < Steffanx> The power of confusing
2011-08-10T01:45:21 < Steffanx> -ing
2011-08-10T01:45:22 < Steffanx> e
2011-08-10T01:48:03 <+izua> please hurr durr some define and select your board hurr durr otherwise i won't compile
2011-08-10T01:48:15 <+izua> oookay.
2011-08-10T01:48:22 <+izua> gotta find a way to circumvent this crap
2011-08-10T01:48:34 <+izua> if i simply select a board, i'll have to trace what considers each pin to be
2011-08-10T01:48:40 <+izua> and hopefully not short two of them together
2011-08-10T01:50:38 <+izua> dekar: dude
2011-08-10T01:50:51 <+izua> how much of the stuff from the libs do i have to paste to actually get this to wokr
2011-08-10T01:51:17 <+izua> i understand stm32_eval.h, and even wanting the files linked to the devboard
2011-08-10T01:51:18 <+izua> but hell
2011-08-10T01:51:27 <+izua> now it also wants stm32l1xx.
2011-08-10T01:51:46 <+izua> probably i should just include STM32_USBLIBTHING\Utilities
2011-08-10T01:53:28 < dekar> izua, dunno what you broke
2011-08-10T01:53:35 < dekar> works fine for me
2011-08-10T01:53:41 <+izua> hm
2011-08-10T01:53:45 <+izua> maybe the file structure changed?
2011-08-10T01:54:02 <+izua> where's stm32_eval.h?
2011-08-10T01:54:17 <+izua> i get it in lib/STM32_USB-FS-Device_Lib_V3.3.0/Utilities.
2011-08-10T01:54:31 < dekar> eval board pin defines etc
2011-08-10T01:54:37 <+izua> Utilities doesn't seem to be included
2011-08-10T01:54:41 <+izua> where, not what.
2011-08-10T01:55:04 < dekar> izua, ET_STM32_EVAL = true # Else it pretends to be the STM3210B_EVAL
2011-08-10T01:55:07 < dekar> comment that
2011-08-10T01:55:38 < dekar> makes it switch to ST_EVAL = $(ST_LIB_PATH)/Utilities/STM32_EVAL
2011-08-10T01:56:28 <+izua> yep
2011-08-10T01:56:40 <+izua> still wants stm32l1xx_it for some reason.
2011-08-10T01:57:50 < Steffanx> Arh.. i just came across my first posts on avrfreaks.net
2011-08-10T01:57:54  * Steffanx = ashamed
2011-08-10T01:58:02 <+izua> hehehe
2011-08-10T01:58:36 < Steffanx> My first post was 5 years ago.. seriously i don't even remember the issues i had back then
2011-08-10T01:59:14 < Steffanx> The funny thing is, I asked questions I really hate nowadays
2011-08-10T01:59:16 <+izua> hm yeah
2011-08-10T01:59:28 < Steffanx> Programmer related issues
2011-08-10T01:59:30 <+izua> seems i hade the 1l sources requestedto be compiled in my makefile
2011-08-10T01:59:37 <+izua> device not found, check connections, error 23?
2011-08-10T01:59:59 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-10T02:00:05 < Steffanx> Ponyprog ftw
2011-08-10T02:00:07 <+izua> i had tons of those
2011-08-10T02:00:09 <+izua> oh man
2011-08-10T02:00:17 <+izua> PONYPROG makes me want to kill a pony
2011-08-10T02:00:22 < Steffanx> The only thing i remember is when is tarted with my first programmer
2011-08-10T02:00:25 <+izua> in front of innocent little girls
2011-08-10T02:00:33 < Steffanx> I didn't know the avr needed an external power supply
2011-08-10T02:00:35 < Steffanx> Lawl
2011-08-10T02:00:55 <+izua> i designed the veroboard plan for mine in a park with some other guy
2011-08-10T02:00:58 <+izua> still have it
2011-08-10T02:01:06 <+izua> paraport programmers never fail or become slow.
2011-08-10T02:01:22 <+izua> 4 years ago i think xD
2011-08-10T02:03:31 <+izua> Steffanx: i think the worst part about avrs is bricking them
2011-08-10T02:03:45 < Steffanx> Yeah I did that aswell :)
2011-08-10T02:03:46 <+izua> you're a noob, you made a led blink, you want to do something faster and in a very wasteful way
2011-08-10T02:03:53 <+izua> you think, oh cool, i can change the clock
2011-08-10T02:03:56 <+izua> and then suddenly instant fail
2011-08-10T02:03:58 < Steffanx> By accident though
2011-08-10T02:04:05 <+izua> it's always by accident :P
2011-08-10T02:04:17 <+izua> it's really cool when you disable the SPI fuse though
2011-08-10T02:04:22 < Steffanx> I try codevision and the default settings sucked
2011-08-10T02:04:27 < Steffanx> *tried
2011-08-10T02:04:48 <+izua> i hate ides for two reasons
2011-08-10T02:06:03 <+izua> 1. they always do proprietary shit i have to get used to. i have code::blocks for standard C stuff, msvcrap for c#, used to have avrstudio for avrs, mikroelectronica pic for pics, and (gasp) oshonsoft before that, and ehm.. i think that's about it.
2011-08-10T02:06:26 <+izua> 2. i always end up with :w, 1337gg, :tabnew and stuff like that through my code >.<
2011-08-10T02:06:48 <+izua> you edit files, you need one editor
2011-08-10T02:06:55 < Steffanx> I didn't even know what linux was back then
2011-08-10T02:07:01 < Steffanx> Nah, that's not true
2011-08-10T02:07:14 <+izua> i had my contact with linux in.. 2000 i think. redhat 6 or something
2011-08-10T02:07:31 <+izua> of course it was really pointless because everything was internet cafes only with lans
2011-08-10T02:07:44 <+izua> so the best thing i figured out linux was used for was "lolkewl i can make a router"
2011-08-10T02:08:10 <+izua> Steffanx: eh?
2011-08-10T02:08:24 < Steffanx> Uh?
2011-08-10T02:08:36 <+izua> i believe keeping a set of different settings + remembering shortcuts and whatnot for all those editors isn't pleasant.
2011-08-10T02:09:09 <+izua> esp when i have my home dev box, laptop on the field, or have to work on the guy's pc, because cba to bring the laptop
2011-08-10T02:10:15 < Steffanx> lawl, now i'm really ashamed.  I found other topics of me on another website
2011-08-10T02:10:19 < Steffanx> They are even worse
2011-08-10T02:10:29 < Steffanx> Webdev related
2011-08-10T02:11:16 < Steffanx> I'm banned from that website now :)
2011-08-10T02:11:27 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-22-22.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2011-08-10T02:11:47 < Steffanx> I showed them the website was extremely buggy with an little exploit
2011-08-10T02:11:53 < Steffanx> *a
2011-08-10T02:12:27 < Steffanx> Cross site scripting FTW
2011-08-10T02:12:43 <+izua> rofl
2011-08-10T02:12:44 <+izua> trollmuch?
2011-08-10T02:13:05 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-10T02:13:11 <+izua> kk
2011-08-10T02:13:17 <+izua> makefile is trolling with me
2011-08-10T02:13:25 < Steffanx> It wasn't the first time i showed the owner it was a buggy website
2011-08-10T02:13:49 <+izua> if i put system_stm32f10x.c in the src dir, it bitches about already defined stuff in some other dir
2011-08-10T02:14:01 <+izua> if i remove it, it says files not found
2011-08-10T02:14:05 < Steffanx> hmpf
2011-08-10T02:14:10 <+izua> lol yeah
2011-08-10T02:14:12 < Steffanx> dekar's shit?
2011-08-10T02:14:33 <+izua> i think he ripped it off from an ide!
2011-08-10T02:14:46 <+izua> or.. parts.. of.. it.. cough cough.
2011-08-10T02:15:53 <+izua> hm yeah
2011-08-10T02:16:06 <+izua> more cross references, *trim trim*
2011-08-10T02:16:19 <+izua> there we go, nice and clean
2011-08-10T02:16:23 <+izua> ERRORS: NONE
2011-08-10T02:16:42 <+izua> now to flash the board and bluescreen my box
2011-08-10T02:16:51 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-10T02:16:53 < Steffanx> Windows :)
2011-08-10T02:18:20 < dekar> haha seriously no errors for me
2011-08-10T02:18:30 <+izua> nah it works one
2011-08-10T02:18:32 <+izua> did some crappy stuff
2011-08-10T02:18:39 <+izua> like asking for system_* to be compiled as sources
2011-08-10T02:18:46 < dekar> want the 3.2.1 lib?
2011-08-10T02:18:52 <+izua> nah, i got it compiled
2011-08-10T02:18:57 <+izua> plain old CDC example
2011-08-10T02:19:04 < dekar> I guess the new lib changed
2011-08-10T02:19:12 <+izua> not by a lot
2011-08-10T02:19:18 <+izua> or probably i did some newb stuff
2011-08-10T02:19:31 <+izua> i seriously don't get why people like these huge build trees
2011-08-10T02:19:38 <+izua> LUFA suffers from the same problem
2011-08-10T02:19:48 <+izua> it does one small thing
2011-08-10T02:19:51 < dekar> do you mean me or ST?
2011-08-10T02:19:57 < Steffanx> YOU
2011-08-10T02:19:59 <+izua> ST, lol
2011-08-10T02:20:03 < dekar> I just adapted their folder structure
2011-08-10T02:20:03 < Steffanx> It's always YOU
2011-08-10T02:20:06 <+izua> lol
2011-08-10T02:20:13 <+izua> nah he's ccool
2011-08-10T02:20:15 <+izua> he owns a mac
2011-08-10T02:20:18 < dekar> Steffanx, I'll never share my makefiles with you :P
2011-08-10T02:20:33 <+izua> dekar: let me erase that from the backlogf
2011-08-10T02:20:35 < Steffanx> Uhm, it's always YOU can be a good thing dekar
2011-08-10T02:21:04 < Steffanx> If you do good things, then it's you.. when you screw it, it's also you :)
2011-08-10T02:21:20 < Steffanx> *screw it up
2011-08-10T02:21:27 <+izua> dekar: i was thinking
2011-08-10T02:21:35 <+izua> remember when we wanted to do a community project of sorts
2011-08-10T02:21:49 < dekar> you wanted, I was making fun about it
2011-08-10T02:21:55 <+izua> had the idea last night while i was recalling that my altera board had a 'control all hardware' interface
2011-08-10T02:22:02 <+izua> well, you were into it for like an hour :P
2011-08-10T02:22:07 < dekar> it needs a fpga to do 10ghz though, seriously!
2011-08-10T02:22:26 < Steffanx> Ah, that project?
2011-08-10T02:22:29 < Steffanx> I remember that :)
2011-08-10T02:22:32 <+izua> i think i'm gonna make an interface to dump random data into memory locations
2011-08-10T02:22:40 <+izua> and then use the header files to make sense of those locations
2011-08-10T02:23:41 <+izua> this way i can mess with hardware without flashing the chip 200 times
2011-08-10T02:23:51 < dekar> thinking about it - that fpga chip I'll get is like $500 - I could get an epic quadcore for the same price O.o
2011-08-10T02:24:14 <+izua> DARE YOU SOLDER IT
2011-08-10T02:24:25 < dekar> it has over 800 pins
2011-08-10T02:24:35 <+izua> some chinese does that for a living
2011-08-10T02:24:37 <+izua> imaigne the slavedriver
2011-08-10T02:24:44 <+izua> THAT CHIP IS WORTH MORE THAN YOUR LIFE
2011-08-10T02:24:45 < Steffanx> You can get better fpga's dekar
2011-08-10T02:24:52 < Steffanx> 100.000$ is good enough?
2011-08-10T02:24:56 < dekar> nope
2011-08-10T02:25:11 < dekar> I don't wanna buy expensive quartus licenses
2011-08-10T02:25:15 < Steffanx> You can buy 10,000 dollar fpga's on digikey :)
2011-08-10T02:25:26 <+izua> Steffanx: i think those are reels :P
2011-08-10T02:25:31 < Steffanx> Sure?
2011-08-10T02:25:32 < dekar> haha
2011-08-10T02:25:35 <+izua> i have a hunch
2011-08-10T02:25:40 <+izua> i recall seeing $1000 avrs and so
2011-08-10T02:25:43 <+izua> and i was like WHOA
2011-08-10T02:25:51 <+izua> and it was a reel with cheap ones :(
2011-08-10T02:26:23 < Steffanx> afaik it not the case with the 10,000 dollar fpga's
2011-08-10T02:26:40 < dekar> izua, why do multimeters always have those optical things for usb?
2011-08-10T02:26:48 < dekar> infrared thingy
2011-08-10T02:26:59 < dekar> the one we have at work has that
2011-08-10T02:27:02 <+izua> irda?
2011-08-10T02:27:04 < dekar> and I have seen it several times
2011-08-10T02:27:12 <+izua> uuh
2011-08-10T02:27:20 <+izua> because they are expensive i think :P
2011-08-10T02:27:21 < dekar> their USB interface is connected using an optical connection
2011-08-10T02:27:30 <+izua> ah
2011-08-10T02:27:32 <+izua> optoisolated?
2011-08-10T02:27:35 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-10T02:27:41 < dekar> I didn't remember that word
2011-08-10T02:27:46 < dekar> why would they need that?
2011-08-10T02:27:47 <+izua> if you have a ground fault or excessive voltage difference
2011-08-10T02:27:53 <+izua> you REALLY REALLY don't want that into your computer
2011-08-10T02:28:03 < dekar> hm
2011-08-10T02:28:06 <+izua> basically if the ground of a device is 60v about the ground of other
2011-08-10T02:28:08 < dekar> why would they have that fault?
2011-08-10T02:28:16 <+izua> because voodoo
2011-08-10T02:28:22 < dekar> hm
2011-08-10T02:28:36 <+izua> i don't know, but this shit happens if for example, earthing fails.
2011-08-10T02:28:47 <+izua> grounding?
2011-08-10T02:28:59 <+izua> that rod you drive down in the earth for a reference
2011-08-10T02:29:01 < dekar> so the ones having it are likely to fail and you shouldn't get them? it's like they advertise "our product will fail, but it won't fry your pc doing so!"
2011-08-10T02:29:08 <+izua> no
2011-08-10T02:29:24 < dekar> I know even 400€ ones have that -.-
2011-08-10T02:29:27 <+izua> the faul is on the device you measure :)
2011-08-10T02:29:30 <+izua> fault
2011-08-10T02:29:39 <+izua> when you'd put the ground lead on its ground
2011-08-10T02:29:46 <+izua> it will also raise the usb ground to +60V
2011-08-10T02:30:02 < Steffanx> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=EP3SE260F1152C3N-ND ..
2011-08-10T02:30:08 <+izua> the fault will be on the device under test, not on the meter
2011-08-10T02:30:14 < dekar> izua, do they have to?
2011-08-10T02:30:17 <+izua> the meter does that to isolate the comms
2011-08-10T02:30:23 <+izua> comms isolation is always good.
2011-08-10T02:30:27 <+izua> you want to have it, not miss it.
2011-08-10T02:30:36 <+izua> they don't have to
2011-08-10T02:30:43 <+izua> but again, ground fault will fry everything
2011-08-10T02:31:07 < dekar> I can measure mains using my multimeter
2011-08-10T02:31:13 < dekar> wouldn't that be ground fault?
2011-08-10T02:31:17 <+izua> uh, i think the correct term is floating ground
2011-08-10T02:31:18 <+izua> no
2011-08-10T02:31:20 <+izua> think about it this way
2011-08-10T02:31:23 <+izua> you have a battery
2011-08-10T02:31:37 <+izua> that outputs 6000 volts on one side and 6006 volts on the other side
2011-08-10T02:31:42 <+izua> relative TO EARTH
2011-08-10T02:31:50 < dekar> hm
2011-08-10T02:31:52 <+izua> the device isn't connected to anything
2011-08-10T02:31:54 < Steffanx> How many do you want dekar ?
2011-08-10T02:31:54 < Steffanx> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=EP4S100G5F45I1-ND
2011-08-10T02:31:58 <+izua> it will have exactly 6v on it
2011-08-10T02:32:03 < Steffanx> Unit price: 24,269.99000
2011-08-10T02:32:12 <+izua> since its floating (not grounded) grounded will be 6000v, 6006-6000 = 6.
2011-08-10T02:32:23 <+izua> when you will connect your multimeter to it, you'll read 6v.
2011-08-10T02:32:25 < dekar> Steffanx, does it come with jtag adapter? if not I don't want them! :P
2011-08-10T02:32:32 <+izua> when you'll connect it to usb, you'll connect 6000V to ground.
2011-08-10T02:32:49 < dekar> izua, I know voltage is relative :P
2011-08-10T02:32:58 <+izua> because the device's ground floats above what everything else considers ground
2011-08-10T02:32:59 < dekar> but my point is, do they have to change their ground
2011-08-10T02:33:08 <+izua> it's not something done explicitly, usually
2011-08-10T02:33:11 <+izua> it's a fault.
2011-08-10T02:33:21 < dekar> they could just add a huge resistor to ground
2011-08-10T02:33:26 < dekar> and still measure voltage
2011-08-10T02:33:30 < dekar> for example
2011-08-10T02:33:40 < dekar> ah okay, fault
2011-08-10T02:33:55 <+izua> no because, that will influence the reading.
2011-08-10T02:34:00 <+izua> you have a huge resistor in parallel to your voltage
2011-08-10T02:34:08 <+izua> and a short between the usb ground and device ground, no?
2011-08-10T02:34:22 <+izua> you need your device and your computer to have the same meaning for 5 volts :P
2011-08-10T02:34:45 <+izua> if you add a huge resistor between the two grounds, then they aren't grounds anymore
2011-08-10T02:34:50 < dekar> how would that matter? you would measure 6000v on ground and 6006v on the other point
2011-08-10T02:35:05 <+izua> ah, but you won't
2011-08-10T02:35:07 <+izua> that's the whole deal
2011-08-10T02:35:16 <+izua> because you'll be connecting a different ground (the usb one)
2011-08-10T02:35:17 < dekar> hm
2011-08-10T02:35:32 <+izua> so instead of doing all that isolation bullcrap with resistors and such
2011-08-10T02:35:35 <+izua> they simple not connect the ground
2011-08-10T02:35:47 <+izua> and send the signals by a different means than electricity
2011-08-10T02:35:53 <+izua> s/simple/simply
2011-08-10T02:35:54 < dekar> don't get me wrong, I like optical stuff - we sell epic lasers :D
2011-08-10T02:36:02 < dekar> but it somehow feels overkill
2011-08-10T02:36:07 <+izua> made any pointers out of the broken ones?
2011-08-10T02:36:20 <+izua> communication isolation is usually a good thing
2011-08-10T02:36:28 < dekar> don't feel like burning my eyes actually
2011-08-10T02:36:36 <+izua> make a cnc engraver
2011-08-10T02:36:37 < Steffanx> Not?
2011-08-10T02:36:49 <+izua> Steffanx: uh?
2011-08-10T02:36:49 < dekar> they're mostly infrared
2011-08-10T02:36:53 < dekar> hard to control
2011-08-10T02:36:59 <+izua> they will be focused :P
2011-08-10T02:37:04 < dekar> I mean hard to use safe
2011-08-10T02:37:18 < Steffanx> It was a reaction on dekar and burning his eyes izua
2011-08-10T02:37:20 < dekar> no need to focus if you have a fiber
2011-08-10T02:37:22 <+izua> there are uv blocking materials
2011-08-10T02:37:37 <+izua> and you can always have the lid closed when the machine is working
2011-08-10T02:37:44 < dekar> I guess
2011-08-10T02:38:01 <+izua> dekar
2011-08-10T02:38:09 <+izua> did you ever have issues with futurlec boards overbending
2011-08-10T02:38:10 < dekar> the strongest one could probably cut wood - not steel :P
2011-08-10T02:38:22 <+izua> when i press the reset button on it it bends quite a lot
2011-08-10T02:38:25 < dekar> izua, well they bend XD
2011-08-10T02:38:28 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-10T02:38:30 <+izua> 2 mm at least
2011-08-10T02:38:34 < Steffanx> bend :S
2011-08-10T02:38:38 < dekar> I have several spare
2011-08-10T02:38:42 <+izua> they should have added two more standoffs
2011-08-10T02:38:50 < Steffanx> 1.5mm pcb?
2011-08-10T02:39:08 <+izua> my eye says about so
2011-08-10T02:39:48 < dekar> did you hear that the xilinx encryption stuff has been broken?
2011-08-10T02:39:51 < Steffanx> Eyes don't speak izua
2011-08-10T02:40:06 <+izua> mine do
2011-08-10T02:40:14 <+izua> they tell me all kinds of dimensions and tolerances xD
2011-08-10T02:48:07 < dekar> I read you can dump all Xilinx FPGA now
2011-08-10T02:48:40 < dekar> As well as replace their code
2011-08-10T02:49:19 <+izua> so i was like
2011-08-10T02:49:23 <+izua> hurr durr my box is slow
2011-08-10T02:49:25 <+izua> checked open tabs
2011-08-10T02:49:28 <+izua> left boxcar2d open
2011-08-10T02:49:30 <+izua> for 3 hours
2011-08-10T02:49:45 < dekar> whatever that is
2011-08-10T02:49:48 <+izua> had 6 generations of cars that can score 700 points
2011-08-10T02:49:52 <+izua> andthey all fuck up at the same point
2011-08-10T02:50:14 <+izua> dekar: is's a box2d simulation where a randomly generated car-like thing goes through a maze of sorts
2011-08-10T02:50:25 <+izua> and each car is generated according to a genetic algorithm
2011-08-10T02:50:47 < dekar> you are really into those, aren't you?
2011-08-10T02:50:53 <+izua> it's rather entertaining to watch
2011-08-10T02:51:00 <+izua> genetic algorithms?
2011-08-10T02:51:01 <+izua> well
2011-08-10T02:51:13 <+izua> i had the idea once of setting up a webcammed robot ring
2011-08-10T02:51:27 <+izua> and lettings users either enter code of sorts for each one and let them fight/bump/etc
2011-08-10T02:51:33 < dekar> I don't think they make sense since we don't have the resources yet, and neither are they fast enough once reasonably complex
2011-08-10T02:51:36 <+izua> or let them evolve a genetic one on their own
2011-08-10T02:51:44 <+izua> definitely
2011-08-10T02:51:49 <+izua> but they are rather entertaining :D
2011-08-10T02:52:32 <+izua> www.boxcar2d.com
2011-08-10T02:52:35 <+izua> give it a try :P
2011-08-10T02:53:17 < dekar> so I just wait?
2011-08-10T02:53:31 <+izua> and watch
2011-08-10T02:53:39 <+izua> really really simple to use, etc :P
2011-08-10T02:54:16 <+izua> the current version i get, scores around 700
2011-08-10T02:54:26 < dekar> they can break O.o
2011-08-10T02:54:30 <+izua> the one that can always score that much always doe two twists in the air
2011-08-10T02:54:35 <+izua> at some very steep drops
2011-08-10T02:54:51 <+izua> but the whole high center of mass is its doom
2011-08-10T02:55:06 <+izua> since it brings it down at some other point after that
2011-08-10T02:55:13 < dekar> can you also test own designs?
2011-08-10T02:55:27 < dekar> I want a single wheel :D
2011-08-10T02:55:45 <+izua> yep
2011-08-10T02:55:48 <+izua> enter them as seed
2011-08-10T02:55:52 <+izua> design it, enter it as seed
2011-08-10T02:56:01 < dekar> how do I design it?
2011-08-10T02:56:19 < dekar> ah designer :D
2011-08-10T02:56:19 <+izua> eeeh, the interface is rather nasty
2011-08-10T02:56:28 <+izua> it determines the angles between 12 lines
2011-08-10T02:56:31 <+izua> relative size of triangles
2011-08-10T02:56:37 <+izua> and each triangle gets a wheel
2011-08-10T02:57:24 <+izua> box2d spawned a lot of amusing crap
2011-08-10T02:59:29 < dekar> single wheel scored 100 :D
2011-08-10T02:59:30 <+izua> dekar: http://pastie.org/2347636
2011-08-10T02:59:31 < dekar> first try
2011-08-10T02:59:33 <+izua> current version
2011-08-10T03:00:47 <+izua> the third wheel is a very fucked up mutation
2011-08-10T03:00:52 <+izua> i don't see its use
2011-08-10T03:00:59 <+izua> but whenever it tried to remove it, it didn'tscore past 400
2011-08-10T03:06:18 <+izua> dekar:
2011-08-10T03:06:21 <+izua> still watching?
2011-08-10T03:07:36 < dekar> hm
2011-08-10T03:07:44 < dekar> still having it open
2011-08-10T03:07:49 < Steffanx> What's that red end of track thing?
2011-08-10T03:07:50 < Steffanx> Why it ends?
2011-08-10T03:08:00 < dekar> reaching it means it passed
2011-08-10T03:08:02 < dekar> I think
2011-08-10T03:08:11 < dekar> won't get killed
2011-08-10T03:08:28 < Steffanx> It sucks because it passes so easily
2011-08-10T03:08:35 <+izua> Steffanx: that's the part of the level not gneerated yet
2011-08-10T03:08:41 <+izua> becausethe current generation is too good :P
2011-08-10T03:08:52 <+izua> Steffanx: wait a few generations
2011-08-10T03:11:41 < Steffanx> Something for you izua
2011-08-10T03:11:43 < Steffanx> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/artificial-intelligence/you-you-can-take-stanfords-intro-to-ai-course-next-quarter-for-free ?
2011-08-10T03:13:28 <+izua> wow lol 10k students
2011-08-10T03:13:51 < Steffanx> I'm one of them :0
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2011-08-10T03:18:10 < dekar> izua, 729 so far
2011-08-10T03:19:05 < Steffanx> With one wheel?
2011-08-10T03:19:28 <+izua> mine does 733 :P
2011-08-10T03:20:29 < Steffanx> Here only 539.. 3rd gen
2011-08-10T03:22:16 < Steffanx> They end at teh same point all the time
2011-08-10T03:22:19 < dekar> with 2 wheels
2011-08-10T03:23:02 < Steffanx> 3 here
2011-08-10T03:23:09 <+izua> bah
2011-08-10T03:23:11 <+izua> cdc enumerates
2011-08-10T03:23:16 <+izua> but
2011-08-10T03:23:18 <+izua> unknown device
2011-08-10T03:23:48 <+izua> WHY U NO DEFAULT LIKE GREECE
2011-08-10T03:24:03 < Steffanx> *Y U NO
2011-08-10T03:24:56 <+izua> tanks
2011-08-10T03:25:01 <+izua> so, no vid, no pid.
2011-08-10T03:25:05 <+izua> that's probably a problematic problem.
2011-08-10T03:26:13 < Steffanx> Who knows
2011-08-10T03:26:31 <+izua> there we go
2011-08-10T03:26:36 <+izua> 0483/df12
2011-08-10T03:27:40 < dekar> how do I add more speed?
2011-08-10T03:27:46 < dekar> small cars barely have power
2011-08-10T03:28:11 <+izua> it's a ratio between arm length from center and wheel size i think
2011-08-10T03:39:07 <+izua> hm
2011-08-10T03:39:11 <+izua> so windows goes like dumdumdum
2011-08-10T03:39:13 <+izua> and that's it
2011-08-10T03:39:26 <+izua> debian is more like hurr durr invalid descriptor, -32
2011-08-10T03:39:36 < Steffanx> That's the great 'i don't know what to do with this usb device' sound :)
2011-08-10T03:39:49 <+izua> device not accepting address [0-9]{0,3}, error -64
2011-08-10T03:39:58 <+izua> or not recognized, or generic fail or etc
2011-08-10T03:43:58 < dekar> well my makefile is working at least :D
2011-08-10T03:44:06 < dekar> any way to speed up those cars?
2011-08-10T03:44:08 <+izua> definitely :P
2011-08-10T03:44:09 < dekar> so slow
2011-08-10T03:48:12 < Steffanx> Waow, 734
2011-08-10T03:48:20 < Steffanx> .7
2011-08-10T03:54:44 < Steffanx> Why i 'play' useless games like this?
2011-08-10T03:54:49 < Steffanx> I don't have to do anything
2011-08-10T03:55:00 <+izua> try progress quest!
2011-08-10T03:56:35 < Steffanx> Seriously what's that?!
2011-08-10T03:56:46 < Steffanx> A game with a windows xp background?
2011-08-10T03:56:56 <+izua> it's a game with windows forms!
2011-08-10T03:57:07 <+izua> and a lot of progress bars
2011-08-10T04:04:44 <+izua> dekar: DUDE
2011-08-10T04:04:51 <+izua> do i need to do anything with the USB pullup?
2011-08-10T04:05:38 <+izua> that would be PD2
2011-08-10T04:06:42 < dekar> only if you want to turn usb off
2011-08-10T04:07:16 <+izua> so the pullup stays on?
2011-08-10T04:15:42 < Steffanx> 827.3 seems to be the limit
2011-08-10T04:20:15 < Steffanx> oh not really
2011-08-10T04:27:58 <+izua> i don't think there is a limit on the random page
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2011-08-10T12:02:43 < dekar_> izua, does does your usb thing work?
2011-08-10T12:02:49 < dekar_> *so does
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2011-08-10T14:50:45 <+izua> dekar_: nah, haven't played with it since last night at 3am
2011-08-10T14:50:56 <+izua> won't enumerate, i think it's a clock issue
2011-08-10T14:55:21 < dekar_> izua, have a look at my linkerscript
2011-08-10T14:55:37 < dekar_> I think the interrupt vector stuff gets messed up
2011-08-10T14:56:05 < dekar_> change the address from 0x08004000 to 0x08000000
2011-08-10T14:57:46 <+izua> there are no files in the linker dir containing the string 08004000
2011-08-10T14:58:31 <+izua> oh
2011-08-10T14:58:34 <+izua> firmware abse address
2011-08-10T14:58:52 <+izua> yeah makes sense, since you're stm is on a boat
2011-08-10T14:58:54 <+izua> loader
2011-08-10T14:58:54 <+izua> etc
2011-08-10T14:59:47 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-10T15:00:44 < dekar_> if the interrupts are messed up your USB won't answer the host
2011-08-10T15:00:50 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T15:00:51 <+izua> makes sense
2011-08-10T15:01:06 <+izua> do you get one isr for each pipeline?
2011-08-10T15:02:25 < dekar_> izua, I don't think so, dunno what you mean by "pipeline" actually
2011-08-10T15:02:33 < dekar_> usb interface?
2011-08-10T15:02:44 <+izua> eh
2011-08-10T15:02:46 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T15:02:49 <+izua> i don't recall the terminology
2011-08-10T15:02:51 <+izua> endpoint!
2011-08-10T15:02:58 < dekar_> the lib takes care of that, you have to implement some functions to get called by it
2011-08-10T15:03:21 < dekar_> devices have interfaces, interfaces have endpoints
2011-08-10T15:03:27 <+izua> uh
2011-08-10T15:03:28 <+izua> something like that
2011-08-10T15:03:33 < dekar_> but yeah I actually meant endpoints :)
2011-08-10T15:03:36 <+izua> so a device can do more stuff, like a composite device
2011-08-10T15:03:41 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-10T15:03:56 <+izua> and each interface can dump/eat several streams
2011-08-10T15:03:58 < dekar_> I am thinking about doing CDC as well
2011-08-10T15:03:59 <+izua> something like that iirc
2011-08-10T15:04:02 < dekar_> in addition to my HID
2011-08-10T15:04:20 < dekar_> izua, no streams, USB is packet based like tcp
2011-08-10T15:04:20 <+izua> cdc is the wya to go brah
2011-08-10T15:04:28 <+izua> you know what i mean
2011-08-10T15:04:31 < dekar_> izua, for windows CDC sucks balls
2011-08-10T15:04:41 <+izua> you could say that a tcp session is also a stream :P
2011-08-10T15:04:43 < dekar_> you need to install driver stuff
2011-08-10T15:04:48 <+izua> just one that isn't very isochronous
2011-08-10T15:04:56 <+izua> you always need drivers on windows
2011-08-10T15:05:01 <+izua> but sometimes it comes with its own
2011-08-10T15:05:01 < dekar_> izua, packet based - no realtime
2011-08-10T15:05:13 <+izua> realtime varies dude
2011-08-10T15:05:18 < dekar_> all usb modes are packet based
2011-08-10T15:05:19 <+izua> 1 byte per second can be all the realtime i need
2011-08-10T15:05:24 <+izua> 'my bike is still tied to the wall'
2011-08-10T15:05:25 <+izua> 'my bike is still tied to the wall'
2011-08-10T15:05:26 <+izua> 'my bike is still tied to the wall'
2011-08-10T15:05:26 <+izua> 'my bike is still tied to the wall'
2011-08-10T15:05:27 <+izua> 'my bike is still tied to the wall'
2011-08-10T15:05:30 <+izua> etc
2011-08-10T15:05:30 < dekar_> O.o
2011-08-10T15:05:32 <+izua> and suddenly
2011-08-10T15:05:40 <+izua> 'smells like niggers and my bike is not there anymore'
2011-08-10T15:05:44 < dekar_> well interrupt is "realtime"
2011-08-10T15:05:46 <+izua> two leds with descriptive text, etc :P
2011-08-10T15:05:51 <+izua> pretty realtime :P
2011-08-10T15:05:58 < dekar_> since it guarantees some bandwidth or the host refuses the connection
2011-08-10T15:06:16 < dekar_> but besides that usb isn't realtime
2011-08-10T15:06:30 <+izua> hmm, nope.
2011-08-10T15:06:35 <+izua> still won't enumerate
2011-08-10T15:06:37 <+izua> yeah well
2011-08-10T15:06:39 < dekar_> sucks
2011-08-10T15:06:41 <+izua> usb is a consumer protocol
2011-08-10T15:06:46 <+izua> it's designed for generic tasks
2011-08-10T15:06:55 < dekar_> I hate how USB3 breaks with everything
2011-08-10T15:06:59 <+izua> not realtime shit like computers with paraports were once used
2011-08-10T15:07:00 < dekar_> it's full duplex now
2011-08-10T15:07:05 <+izua> lol nice
2011-08-10T15:07:09 < dekar_> has another 4 pins
2011-08-10T15:07:13 <+izua> what if two clients on the bus wants to talk
2011-08-10T15:07:17 <+izua> want
2011-08-10T15:07:33 < dekar_> izua, what do you mean? usb never has two clients on the bus
2011-08-10T15:07:42 < dekar_> it's not even a real bus
2011-08-10T15:07:58 < dekar_> you have to use those hubs
2011-08-10T15:08:07 < dekar_> they're active and contain controllers
2011-08-10T15:08:13 <+izua> i'm rather sure you can daisy chain usb clients
2011-08-10T15:08:13 < dekar_> USB never has collisions etc
2011-08-10T15:08:19 < dekar_> nope
2011-08-10T15:08:26 <+izua> there are plugs which plug one in each other
2011-08-10T15:08:27 <+izua> like a stack
2011-08-10T15:08:33 < dekar_> no way
2011-08-10T15:08:34 <+izua> and have a connector for an usb device 90 degrees apart
2011-08-10T15:08:38 <+izua> completely mechanical
2011-08-10T15:08:39 < dekar_> they're probably active
2011-08-10T15:09:05 <+izua> not sure though :P
2011-08-10T15:09:10 < dekar_> USB really isn't a "bus"
2011-08-10T15:09:20 < dekar_> which doesn't make sense ofc XD
2011-08-10T15:09:26 <+izua> eeeeeh
2011-08-10T15:09:32 <+izua> ethernet is way better :P
2011-08-10T15:09:35 <+izua> and you get real time too
2011-08-10T15:09:43 <+izua> ethercat is such an example
2011-08-10T15:09:43 < dekar_> not on collision domains
2011-08-10T15:09:47 <+izua> nah
2011-08-10T15:09:51 <+izua> not tcp and that bullshit
2011-08-10T15:10:00 <+izua> ethercat is like industrial wondermat
2011-08-10T15:10:05 < dekar_> ethernet stops doing that as well
2011-08-10T15:10:06 <+izua> each device has two ethernet ports
2011-08-10T15:10:13 <+izua> in and out, so to say
2011-08-10T15:10:21 < dekar_> izua, the 10G ethernet standard prohibits collisions
2011-08-10T15:10:21 <+izua> the master sends a packet
2011-08-10T15:10:26 < dekar_> you can't do that anymore
2011-08-10T15:10:38 <+izua> each device uses some bytes in the packet
2011-08-10T15:10:54 <+izua> gets the current token, processes it, spews it out for the next device (or back at the master)
2011-08-10T15:11:21 <+izua> i've seen a cnc controlled in PULSES directly over that crap
2011-08-10T15:11:26 <+izua> there are no collisions
2011-08-10T15:11:30 <+izua> it's a ring architecture
2011-08-10T15:11:38 < dekar_> ya I know
2011-08-10T15:12:01 < dekar_> I mean you can't do the collisions you can do with 1G ethernet
2011-08-10T15:12:13 < dekar_> you can have several devices at the same bus for 1G ethernet
2011-08-10T15:12:17 < dekar_> and they collide
2011-08-10T15:12:28 < dekar_> which is handled by the standard
2011-08-10T15:12:29 <+izua> yeah, 1G uses direction negotiation
2011-08-10T15:12:34 <+izua> so collision would probably be bad
2011-08-10T15:12:41 < dekar_> 1G has collisions
2011-08-10T15:12:46 < dekar_> they have some random back off time
2011-08-10T15:12:51 < dekar_> to solve them
2011-08-10T15:13:12 < dekar_> you can connect like 20 ethernet devices to the same cable without switches
2011-08-10T15:13:25 <+izua> that's been around since networks consisted of a copper cable with everybody tapping in with a vampire plug :P
2011-08-10T15:13:37 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-10T15:13:39 < dekar_> you could even mix up the pins, the 1G standard says they have to be able to switch all pins internally
2011-08-10T15:13:41 <+izua> just tap in the cable
2011-08-10T15:13:59 < dekar_> but 10G prohibits it - for 10G you can't do it anymore
2011-08-10T15:14:06 < dekar_> that's what I meant to say
2011-08-10T15:14:15 < dekar_> so they're not really a "bus" anymore
2011-08-10T15:14:23 <+izua> well
2011-08-10T15:14:24 < dekar_> they demand active components
2011-08-10T15:14:29 <+izua> that's more like a HUGE PIPE
2011-08-10T15:14:31 <+izua> more than a bus
2011-08-10T15:14:42 < dekar_> I know
2011-08-10T15:14:46 <+izua> hm
2011-08-10T15:14:50 <+izua> so still not recognized
2011-08-10T15:14:51 < dekar_> didn't mean to say anything about ethercat
2011-08-10T15:15:12 < dekar_> I just meant ethernet 10G goes the same way USB3 does
2011-08-10T15:15:20 <+izua> yeah, i get it now :)
2011-08-10T15:16:28 < dekar_> izua, uhm switch the UMODE jumper
2011-08-10T15:16:30 < dekar_> might help
2011-08-10T15:17:09 < dekar_> did you fix the descriptor problem yet?
2011-08-10T15:33:54 < Steffanx> The solution for your problems is near dekar_
2011-08-10T15:34:22 < Steffanx> There's going to be a new usb specification that specifies USB 2.0/3.0 ports should be able supply 100W :P
2011-08-10T15:34:51 < Steffanx> So you can finally charge phones with that great device you/flexoptix made
2011-08-10T15:38:51 < dekar_> Steffanx, sure :/
2011-08-10T15:39:12 < Steffanx> http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Power_Delivery_Specification.pdf
2011-08-10T15:48:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, wow I thought you were kiddin'
2011-08-10T15:48:53 < Steffanx> I ever do.. ?!
2011-08-10T15:48:57 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-10T16:14:28 < dekar_> izua, my bootloader only takes 5s for 20kb now, it used to take 20s :)
2011-08-10T16:14:41 < dekar_> I guess I can keep it like that
2011-08-10T16:14:42 < Steffanx> Improvements?
2011-08-10T16:15:05 < Steffanx> How's that possible dekar_ ?
2011-08-10T16:15:35 < dekar_> changed the the usb interrupt endpoint polling interval to 8ms
2011-08-10T16:15:41 < dekar_> was like 40ms before
2011-08-10T16:15:51 < Steffanx> Ah
2011-08-10T16:15:59 < dekar_> I also have like 50% overhead I could get rid of
2011-08-10T16:16:04 < dekar_> but w/e
2011-08-10T16:16:08 < dekar_> good enough
2011-08-10T16:17:10 < dekar_> so I could make the endpoint 8 times faster and add another 100% speedup by removing the overhead - that would be max speed then
2011-08-10T16:17:21 < dekar_> but how often do you update the firmware anyway?
2011-08-10T16:17:40 < Steffanx> Never
2011-08-10T17:04:51 < dekar_> izua, Steffanx just had the worst I2C slave ever - made by HP
2011-08-10T17:05:17 < dekar_> it crashed (doesn't recover till power reset) if you wrote anything, but single bytes
2011-08-10T17:05:50 < dekar_> also if you wrote them too fast
2011-08-10T17:07:59 < Steffanx> :S
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2011-08-10T21:15:59 < Laurenceb_> the hoeywell magnos are annoying
2011-08-10T21:16:12 < Laurenceb_> they stop responding if you take too long
2011-08-10T21:17:48 < Steffanx> Huh?
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2011-08-10T23:10:49 <+izua> meh so yeah
2011-08-10T23:10:57 <+izua> that whole clock setup deal looks suspicious to me
2011-08-10T23:11:17 < Steffanx> Clock setup deal?
2011-08-10T23:12:28 <+izua> if i choose the 72M define, it uses the external crystal, sets PLL MUL to 9 AND THEEEEN
2011-08-10T23:12:31 <+izua> while((RCC->CR & RCC_CR_PLL2RDY) == 0) {}
2011-08-10T23:12:49 <+izua> yeah, system_stm32f10x.c
2011-08-10T23:13:04 <+izua> which takes care of the whole clock choice and pull selection with some simple defines
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2011-08-10T23:29:42 <+izua> myeah, so something is definitely wrong
2011-08-10T23:30:28 <+izua> added this http://pastebin.com/Yw6iqEbD after the usb init, which should be a led blinky
2011-08-10T23:30:31 <+izua> but it's never reached
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2011-08-11T15:21:52 < Steffanx> dekar_ , comment on the comic you placed on google+
2011-08-11T15:22:02 < Steffanx> You DONT want to use google+
2011-08-11T15:22:18 < Steffanx> I used my initials and not my full name, now my account has been suspended
2011-08-11T15:23:05 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-11T15:23:09 < dekar_> Google is so nazi
2011-08-11T15:24:01 <+izua> Steffanx: really?
2011-08-11T15:24:03 <+izua> lol
2011-08-11T15:24:06 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-11T15:24:14 <+izua> your whole google account?
2011-08-11T15:24:18 <+izua> or just the + section?
2011-08-11T15:24:41 < Steffanx> The + section
2011-08-11T15:26:53 <+izua> nasty
2011-08-11T15:37:25 < Laurenceb> social netwroking can piss off
2011-08-11T15:37:50 < Steffanx> Not that i really use google+ ..
2011-08-11T15:37:52 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-11T15:37:55 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-08-11T15:38:04 < Steffanx> I only read dekar_'s posts :P
2011-08-11T15:38:29 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-11T15:38:47 < dekar_> I guess I'll migrate everything back to my blog sooner or later
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2011-08-11T15:50:43 < Steffanx> bb
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2011-08-11T17:07:52 <+izua> Steffanx:
2011-08-11T17:07:54 <+izua> dek
2011-08-11T17:07:57 <+izua> or anyone else
2011-08-11T17:08:01 <+izua> do you hike/backpack?
2011-08-11T17:08:04 <+izua> planning on getting a tent
2011-08-11T17:08:10 < Steffanx> Nope
2011-08-11T17:08:19 <+izua> can't decided between husky flame 2, which is very small (145/225)
2011-08-11T17:08:23 < Steffanx> That's not really possible here in NL
2011-08-11T17:08:44 <+izua> and a husky falcon 2, which is 5 cm taller, 160 wide, 220 long (50 mm shorter)
2011-08-11T17:08:47 <+izua> BUT
2011-08-11T17:08:52 <+izua> doesn't have the epic flame 2 tent.
2011-08-11T17:08:59 < Steffanx> I think dekar does, but he's not here :)
2011-08-11T17:09:21 <+izua> i've been in a husky flame (non 2) in a winter storm, cooking inside on a primus, the whole thing didn't bulge
2011-08-11T17:09:36 <+izua> and i was sitting there only in my pants
2011-08-11T17:09:43 <+izua> so it was pretty neat, stable/warm
2011-08-11T17:10:04 <+izua> but it has a very very specific shape
2011-08-11T17:10:13 < Steffanx> Can you get lost in Romania? Here in NL you can't :)
2011-08-11T17:10:20 <+izua> i think so
2011-08-11T17:10:38 <+izua> we have incidents of backpackers getting lost/dieing every few months
2011-08-11T17:10:54 < Steffanx> Walk a few km and you'll find a highway or house
2011-08-11T17:11:16 < Steffanx> Too crowded here
2011-08-11T17:11:55 <+izua> or too small?
2011-08-11T17:12:03 < Steffanx> That too
2011-08-11T17:12:07 <+izua> claim some new territory!
2011-08-11T17:24:53 < Steffanx> Any idea how flexible 0.8mm pcb is?
2011-08-11T17:26:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: it will break, not flex
2011-08-11T17:26:43 < Steffanx> I don't want to bend it, i just wonder how flexible it is
2011-08-11T17:27:16 < jpa-> any units where you want the answer in? i have used some 0.8 mm pcb :P
2011-08-11T17:27:46 < Steffanx> Actually I want to know how non-flexible it is :P
2011-08-11T17:27:58 < Steffanx> If it's useable for a very small quadrocopter
2011-08-11T17:28:06 < Steffanx> Made out of one pcb
2011-08-11T17:28:28 < jpa-> it probably is
2011-08-11T17:28:52 < Steffanx> I'll order it for another project and i'll see :)
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2011-08-12T12:27:26 < dekar_> izua_, I seriously think any OS besides Linux slows me down
2011-08-12T12:27:46 < dekar_> I just had to write down the serial numbers of a bunch of USB devices
2011-08-12T12:27:56 < dekar_> lsusb -cd vid:pid
2011-08-12T12:28:04 < dekar_> how do you do that on windows?
2011-08-12T12:28:07 < dekar_> hardware manager?
2011-08-12T12:28:11 < dekar_> so annoying
2011-08-12T12:30:36 < dekar_> Steffanx, you were recommending some german show when we were talking about the panda board, which one was it?
2011-08-12T12:53:28 < Laurenceb> i want to make a pandaboard desktop
2011-08-12T12:53:38 < Laurenceb> with pandaboard in the back on an lcd
2011-08-12T12:59:53 < Steffanx> It was watterott, but it seems they don't have it in stock dekar_
2011-08-12T13:00:02 < Steffanx> Watterott.com dekar_
2011-08-12T13:01:37 < dekar_> Steffanx, I don't feel like buying pandaboards anyway since I have 2 spare :P
2011-08-12T13:01:59 < dekar_> I think they also had the flyswatter jtag thing - I think I'll order one or two
2011-08-12T13:02:12 < dekar_> Someone stole my USB-Serial thingy
2011-08-12T13:03:27 < Steffanx> It sucks os x has no lsusb
2011-08-12T13:03:52 < dekar_> agree
2011-08-12T13:04:08 < dekar_> so handy for usb development
2011-08-12T13:04:18 < Steffanx> There's usb prober ( which is nice for debugging ) but you have to click a few times
2011-08-12T13:06:06 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/USB_Prober-20110812-120553.png can be handy
2011-08-12T13:13:19 < dekar_> I prefer lsusb :)
2011-08-12T13:14:47 < Steffanx> system_profiler SPUSBDataType also works 'ok'
2011-08-12T13:14:56 < Steffanx> but still not lsusb :P
2011-08-12T13:16:04 < Steffanx> Why no one ever wrong a lsusb for os x?
2011-08-12T13:16:19 < Steffanx> Shouldn't be that hard to parse the data from "system_profiler SPUSBDataTyp"
2011-08-12T13:55:41 < dekar_> Steffanx, do you know where I can order flexible PCB like these? http://www.ledlightsworld.com/images/led-strips-3/the-differnece-of-different-background.jpg
2011-08-12T13:56:17 < Steffanx> You want that pcb or you want to make your own flexible one?
2011-08-12T13:56:37 < dekar_> my own
2011-08-12T13:56:51 < dekar_> well I want to give someone gerber files to make me one
2011-08-12T13:57:01 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-12T13:57:36 < dekar_> the old case had light-pipes connecting to the surface mounted LEDs
2011-08-12T13:57:52 < dekar_> but I think such a foil PCB would be easier
2011-08-12T13:58:43 < Steffanx> I've seen it somewhere, quite cheap… but i don't know where :(
2011-08-12T14:09:46 < Steffanx> I hate this :(
2011-08-12T15:06:46 < dekar_> Steffanx, what do you hate?
2011-08-12T15:24:25 < Steffanx> When something doesn't work dekar_
2011-08-12T15:24:31 < Steffanx> And you don't know where to look
2011-08-12T15:26:12 < dekar_> Stop using Java?
2011-08-12T15:26:13 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-12T15:26:41 < Steffanx> It's C ..
2011-08-12T15:26:43 < dekar_> I always have those problems when using "modern" programming languages...
2011-08-12T15:26:47 < Steffanx> RF Module
2011-08-12T15:27:05 < dekar_> Get a new one? :)
2011-08-12T15:27:48 < Steffanx> New one?
2011-08-12T15:29:56 < Steffanx> What can be a reason it goes into 'hard fault' ?
2011-08-12T15:30:55 < Steffanx> Ops, nvm :P
2011-08-12T15:32:44 < Steffanx> The !@#$%^ RF Module should pull a line low, that should give an interrupt.. but none if it happens
2011-08-12T15:33:31 < Steffanx> When i pull it low by hand the interrupt fires, so probably the RF Module config is wrong :(
2011-08-12T16:06:02 < dekar_> Get a different brand of RF module?
2011-08-12T16:06:14 < dekar_> Besides, why don't you just get a STM32W?
2011-08-12T16:14:06 < Steffanx> Hmpf
2011-08-12T16:14:09 < Steffanx> Not an option
2011-08-12T16:16:15 < Steffanx> It did work before, not sure why it doesn't anymore
2011-08-12T16:16:21 < Steffanx> (haven't touched it for a while)
2011-08-12T16:41:37 < Steffanx> At least i found a little error
2011-08-12T16:41:46 < Steffanx> But it didn't solve the problem :(
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2011-08-12T19:16:32 <+izua_> Steffanx:
2011-08-12T19:16:34 <+izua_> you dutch?
2011-08-12T19:16:58 <+izua_> i'm trying to translate something with google translate, but it's kind of fail
2011-08-12T19:17:18 <+izua_> Die zwei langen Gestängebögen durch die Netzkanäle schieben, die zum Glück leichtgängig sind und auch nicht hakeln. <- "which are fortunately not too smooth and hakeln". what's hakeln?
2011-08-12T19:44:22 < Steffanx> I'm dutch yes..
2011-08-12T19:44:26 < Steffanx> The problem is.. that's german :P
2011-08-12T19:46:15 < Steffanx> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%A4keln Häkeln :)
2011-08-12T19:48:31 <+izua_> ah lol
2011-08-12T19:48:37 <+izua_> google translate said it's dutch
2011-08-12T19:49:31 < Steffanx> Not Deutch?
2011-08-12T19:49:33 < Steffanx> sch
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2011-08-12T19:52:57 <+izua_> no, i think that's german
2011-08-12T20:20:01 <+izua_> http://themetapicture.com/orthographic-projections/
2011-08-12T20:24:05 < Steffanx> hehe izua_
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2011-08-12T20:45:14 < Steffanx> Why the stm32 can't generate an interrupt on low level?
2011-08-12T20:45:22 < Steffanx> Even an AVR can do that
2011-08-12T20:51:17 <+izua_> you mean a software generated interrupt
2011-08-12T20:51:32 < Steffanx> Now
2011-08-12T20:51:43 < Steffanx> Interrupt on low level of a pin
2011-08-12T20:51:51 < Steffanx> Not on an edge
2011-08-12T20:52:02 <+izua_> so toggling a pin and getting an external isr
2011-08-12T20:52:43 <+izua_> transitions are usually more useful
2011-08-12T20:53:20 <+izua_> since you don't need an extra shadow register to detect levels
2011-08-12T20:53:22 <+izua_> but idk
2011-08-12T20:53:31 <+izua_> sucks if you need such a feature and not have it
2011-08-12T20:53:50 < Steffanx> Who care about an shadow register when it's made in hw? :P
2011-08-12T20:53:54 < Steffanx> -n
2011-08-12T20:54:27 <+izua_> cuz if you only have level detection and not transitions, you need a shadow register
2011-08-12T20:54:45 < Steffanx> Some AVR's can do everything for you
2011-08-12T20:54:50 <+izua_> but if you have transitions, you don't, if you want to detect levels
2011-08-12T20:55:00 <+izua_> use an avr :D
2011-08-12T20:55:03 < Steffanx> It just fires interrupts when a pin is low
2011-08-12T20:55:05 < Steffanx> Not an option
2011-08-12T20:55:55 < jpa-> when do you need level triggered irq?
2011-08-12T20:57:52 < jpa-> and can't you just do   void my_edge_triggered_isr() { while (pin_is_low) do_my_stuff; }
2011-08-12T20:58:21 < Steffanx> Nah, i'm very desperate right now :(
2011-08-12T20:58:36 < Steffanx> I can't figure out why my rf module doesnt work
2011-08-12T20:58:41 < Steffanx> I'm pretty sure it worked before
2011-08-12T20:58:47 < jpa-> i broke it, sorry
2011-08-12T20:59:48 < Steffanx> Thanks
2011-08-12T21:00:05 < Steffanx> I even replaced the module
2011-08-12T21:03:25 < Steffanx> So it has to be a sw issue
2011-08-12T21:17:26 < Steffanx> but i'm going mad :(
2011-08-12T21:42:57 <+izua_> Steffanx: antenna
2011-08-12T21:46:47 < Steffanx> Nah, it really seems ot be a sw issue
2011-08-12T21:46:50 < Steffanx> it
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2011-08-13T02:33:32 < Steffanx> Hmpf
2011-08-13T02:50:11 <+izua_> Steffanx: got it working?
2011-08-13T02:50:19 < Steffanx> Nope
2011-08-13T02:50:54 < Steffanx> Probably something very stupid. like always
2011-08-13T02:51:22 <+izua_> it always is, hehe
2011-08-13T02:52:54 < Steffanx> Perhaps the punishment for not writing it myself
2011-08-13T03:12:06 < Steffanx> I think i found my problem
2011-08-13T03:12:09 < Steffanx> Not sure how it fix it though
2011-08-13T03:13:34 <+izua_> eh?
2011-08-13T03:15:11 < Steffanx> Not :(
2011-08-13T03:16:05 <+izua_> what do you think the problem is?
2011-08-13T03:16:23 < Steffanx> It wasn't the problem
2011-08-13T03:16:29 < Steffanx> So no fix yet
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2011-08-13T03:58:11 <+izua_> http://themetapicture.com/oh-crap-a-brick/
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2011-08-13T14:24:35 < Steffanx> Give me your logic analyzer dekar_
2011-08-13T14:37:35 < dekar_> Steffanx, haha - why did you sell yours again? :P
2011-08-13T14:45:21 < Steffanx> Because it was sucky back then
2011-08-13T14:45:31 < Steffanx> aka useless
2011-08-13T14:49:19 < Steffanx> It seems when i write the registers of the rf module and read the back the values aren't the same
2011-08-13T14:49:38 < Steffanx> So now i need logic analyzer to see what actually happens :)
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2011-08-13T18:00:51 < dekar_> Steffanx, make a stm32 based one :)
2011-08-13T18:01:06 < Steffanx> Not an option
2011-08-13T18:01:20 < Steffanx> Takes too long
2011-08-13T18:01:48 < jpa-> use your fpga dev board
2011-08-13T18:01:52 < Steffanx> And it doesn't seems to be a problem
2011-08-13T18:02:04 < Steffanx> That would even take longer.. and i have no fpga board :)
2011-08-13T18:02:36 < jpa-> oh, if you had you could just use the built-in signaltap or whatever
2011-08-13T18:54:04 < dekar_> izua_, http://pastebin.com/WRMptrau
2011-08-13T18:55:06 < dekar_> that's all I do
2011-08-13T18:55:19 < dekar_> next time just ask me if you have USB problems
2011-08-13T18:58:23 <+izua_> well, i do bug you enough as it is
2011-08-13T18:59:17 <+izua_> and that's exactly what the examples do: set_system(), set_usbclock(), usb_isr_config(), usb_init()
2011-08-13T19:01:44 <+izua_> minus the vector table moved at the start of your bootloader
2011-08-13T19:06:06 < dekar_> izua_, did you play with the umode jumper
2011-08-13T19:06:45 < dekar_> You're pretending to have some different devboard than you actually have right? check the usb power pin
2011-08-13T19:07:15 < dekar_> there is some method calling it "PowerOFF" and "PowerON" iirc
2011-08-13T19:23:49 <+izua_> yes, obviously i did
2011-08-13T19:24:05 <+izua_> if i would have put the power pin on external power, that would have reqired me to supply +5v externally.
2011-08-13T19:24:25 <+izua_> the mode pin has two settings, grounded and controlled over B2 iirc
2011-08-13T19:24:37 <+izua_> when it's grounded, the 1k5 pullup is enabled.
2011-08-13T19:25:12 <+izua_> since the st3 examples have no idea where my pullup pin is, usb doesn't work, obviously with the umode in user mode
2011-08-13T19:25:43 <+izua_> uh, pretending to have a different board? heh, why would i do that :P
2011-08-13T19:28:09 <+izua_> so with no external power, and with no idea in the default examples where the pullup pin is, the settings are power source: usb, usb mode: pullup always on
2011-08-13T19:28:28 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:28:40 <+izua_> "configure-gdb" error, no termcap library found
2011-08-13T19:28:43 <+izua_> you've got to be joking
2011-08-13T19:29:24 <+izua_> wth am i installing xD
2011-08-13T19:31:41 < dekar_> izua_, "apt-get build-dep gcc gdb glibc" (etc) and "apt-get install build-essentials"
2011-08-13T19:31:57 < dekar_> do it the debian way
2011-08-13T19:32:26 < dekar_> besides, aren't you using gentoo? you out of all people should know how to compile stuff
2011-08-13T19:32:51 <+izua_> yep
2011-08-13T19:32:55 <+izua_> when supplied with a list of deps
2011-08-13T19:33:02 <+izua_> now it crashed because there's no libftdi
2011-08-13T19:33:16 <+izua_> not sure exactly why i need libftdi to compile..
2011-08-13T19:33:29 <+izua_> probably some very specific instructions can't be compiled on my laptop, only on ftdi chips ._.
2011-08-13T19:33:59 <+izua_> ah well
2011-08-13T19:34:05 < dekar_> it probably builds openocd as well
2011-08-13T19:34:10 <+izua_> yeah but..
2011-08-13T19:34:12 <+izua_> i don't need it
2011-08-13T19:34:24 < dekar_> then make it not build it
2011-08-13T19:34:24 <+izua_> uh well
2011-08-13T19:34:36 < dekar_> oh is there no ebuild for you? poor izua :P
2011-08-13T19:34:50 <+izua_> cba with hacking silly scripts :P
2011-08-13T19:35:01 <+izua_> nah, laptop is debian now
2011-08-13T19:35:04 < dekar_> it was pretty easy to configure afaik
2011-08-13T19:35:14 <+izua_> they did some epic crap with the base layout and latest kde
2011-08-13T19:35:19 < dekar_> I compiled it with different settings back then
2011-08-13T19:35:21 <+izua_> whcih basically made me emerge everything all over again
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2011-08-13T19:35:32 <+izua_> and after that, i had to update like 20 config files
2011-08-13T19:35:40 <+izua_> debian is also pretty epic
2011-08-13T19:35:47 < dekar_> orly?
2011-08-13T19:35:55 <+izua_> like, if i use closed-source video drivers, i can't console in > 640x480
2011-08-13T19:36:04 <+izua_> if i use open-source drivers, i can't 3D
2011-08-13T19:36:27 < dekar_> that's so not debian related
2011-08-13T19:36:39 < dekar_> It's called kernel modesetting
2011-08-13T19:36:48 <+izua_> it's called useless bullshit
2011-08-13T19:36:57 <+izua_> like all that hacking through grub2 to get things working
2011-08-13T19:37:05 < dekar_> your proprietary driver is an Xorg driver, the open source one is a kernel driver
2011-08-13T19:37:39 <+izua_> all i know is that with gentoo, i could use uvesafb and get a huge resolution on my console
2011-08-13T19:37:59 <+izua_> linux is annoying anyway
2011-08-13T19:38:01 < dekar_> you can probably use framebuffer drivers as well
2011-08-13T19:38:11 < dekar_> might need old kernels though
2011-08-13T19:38:12 <+izua_> it's my fault for attempting to use it as a desktop OS
2011-08-13T19:38:22 < dekar_> like 2.6.18
2011-08-13T19:38:27 < jpa-> you can always build your own kernel, just like gentoo
2011-08-13T19:38:35 < jpa-> it's not any harder, either
2011-08-13T19:38:43 < dekar_> get a linux certified system with intel chipset and graphics
2011-08-13T19:39:01 <+izua_> yeah, just a menuconfig
2011-08-13T19:39:02 < dekar_> my intel gpu supports kernel modesetting just fine
2011-08-13T19:39:11 <+izua_> i get what i can afford dude :P
2011-08-13T19:39:19 <+izua_> and what's around shops nearby
2011-08-13T19:39:20 < dekar_> I didn't have to change any settings - my console was full resolution
2011-08-13T19:39:27 <+izua_> mine was too
2011-08-13T19:39:29 < jpa-> dekar_: but i guess the 3d performance sucks just as much as the nvidia/ati open source drivers :)
2011-08-13T19:39:40 <+izua_> but when switching to the 3D accelero, it fucked up
2011-08-13T19:39:41 < dekar_> jpa-, minecraft runs fine
2011-08-13T19:39:46 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:39:54 <+izua_> minecraft is pretty epic
2011-08-13T19:39:55 <+izua_> but
2011-08-13T19:39:59 <+izua_> dwarf fortress is even more epic!
2011-08-13T19:40:23 < dekar_> izua_, I seriously don't see how you can on the one hand use gentoo and on the other hand suck so hard when it comes to linux
2011-08-13T19:40:53 < dekar_> just get a mac already
2011-08-13T19:41:13 < dekar_> mac ports just feels like gentoo - compiling for hours
2011-08-13T19:41:41 < dekar_> I am pretty sure it took like 8h all together till I had everything I needed
2011-08-13T19:41:55 < dekar_> it also failed to resolve dependencies several times
2011-08-13T19:42:25 < dekar_> besides macbook pro is the best laptop hardware I know of - I really recommend it
2011-08-13T19:42:59 < dekar_> jpa-, gnome3 is fluent as well
2011-08-13T19:43:10 < dekar_> and the latest macbooks also have the intel graphics
2011-08-13T19:43:18 < dekar_> I don't see why I would want anything else
2011-08-13T19:43:27 < dekar_> I only buy intel when it comes to laptops
2011-08-13T19:44:39 < dekar_> izua_, why do you want 3d anyway? and why do you care about the console? just spawn like 3 Xorg and use xterm in fullscreen without window manager
2011-08-13T19:44:57 < dekar_> framebuffer console is pretty useless imo
2011-08-13T19:45:01 < dekar_> I barely use it
2011-08-13T19:45:04 < jpa-> yeah, i like intel too
2011-08-13T19:45:17 < jpa-> i use it when compiz deadlocks
2011-08-13T19:45:30 < dekar_> I don't see a reason to use compiz
2011-08-13T19:46:11 <+izua_> dekar_: because x is useless and eats up a lot of cpu and battery power
2011-08-13T19:46:13 < dekar_> I was using gnome2 all these years and it was okay - now I switched to gnome3 and I totally love it
2011-08-13T19:46:20 <+izua_> when i want to do something as simple as editing a text file and flashing it to a chip
2011-08-13T19:46:36 < dekar_> izua_, it doesn't eat cpu and power, it just eats ram
2011-08-13T19:46:59 <+izua_> yes it does
2011-08-13T19:47:05 <+izua_> for example every font goes through libttf
2011-08-13T19:47:16 <+izua_> to do aliasing, width calculation, justification, etc
2011-08-13T19:47:17 < dekar_> izua_, besides when using the framebuffer driver your gpu driver is INACTIVE - that probably wastes far more power
2011-08-13T19:47:21 <+izua_> when all i need is a simple bitmap overlay
2011-08-13T19:47:57 <+izua_> uh i guess
2011-08-13T19:48:04 < dekar_> izua_, show me a relevant change in battery life
2011-08-13T19:48:12 < dekar_> I am pretty sure Xorg will consume less
2011-08-13T19:48:32 <+izua_> haven;t experimented with latest drivers
2011-08-13T19:48:41 < jpa-> dekar_: yeah, i think i might be happy with gnome3 once it gets into ubuntu
2011-08-13T19:48:44 <+izua_> but i did this while i was working, because i had to run around quite a bit
2011-08-13T19:48:47 < dekar_> I agree on Xorg being bloated and fat - it doesn't matter though
2011-08-13T19:49:11 <+izua_> and i only needed about a charge overnight
2011-08-13T19:49:11 < dekar_> izua_, you're nvidia or ati right?
2011-08-13T19:49:22 <+izua_> the box with issues, yeah, ati
2011-08-13T19:49:25 < Steffanx> Yeah, just overclock your cpu and no one cares dekar_
2011-08-13T19:49:29 < dekar_> izua_, your drivers won't help - THEY'RE XORG DRIVERS
2011-08-13T19:49:30 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:49:41 <+izua_> yes but why should i care abut this ?
2011-08-13T19:49:45 < dekar_> Steffanx, I oc'ed my atom to 2,3ghz :D
2011-08-13T19:49:51 <+izua_> that's my point with desktop linux
2011-08-13T19:49:54 < dekar_> only needs one watt more
2011-08-13T19:50:18 < dekar_> izua_, you can't do framebuffer consoles on windows AT ALL - I don't get your point
2011-08-13T19:50:27 <+izua_> no, but windows drivers always work
2011-08-13T19:50:28 < dekar_> just use a default installation and play with gnome
2011-08-13T19:50:37 < dekar_> they work on gnome as well
2011-08-13T19:50:39 <+izua_> all i need to know is to pop in a cd and press next several times
2011-08-13T19:50:57 < dekar_> you're trying to be the uber-1337-hacker, but you lack the skill needed
2011-08-13T19:51:06 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:51:10 < dekar_> so get a mac or use ubuntu
2011-08-13T19:51:11 <+izua_> i'm simply trying to be efficient dude
2011-08-13T19:51:29 < jpa-> izua_: do your windows drivers give you 1600x1200 console?
2011-08-13T19:51:29 <+izua_> if it takes me more than a few hours to do something simple, when there's a solution that works with 3 clicks, why bother?
2011-08-13T19:51:37 <+izua_> yep.
2011-08-13T19:51:42 <+izua_> console2, terminus font.
2011-08-13T19:51:43 < dekar_> you are not efficient when disabling the gpu driver while switching to framebuffer mode
2011-08-13T19:51:57 < jpa-> izua_: i mean, with direct rendering without ttf fonts, like you wanted?
2011-08-13T19:52:31 < dekar_> jpa-, he is just trolling - it totally doesn't matter
2011-08-13T19:52:36 <+izua_> probably not, but you can't really expect font rendering wtihout a lib if using an os without a real console
2011-08-13T19:52:36 < jpa-> dekar_: sure
2011-08-13T19:52:42 <+izua_> dekar_: lol, fu
2011-08-13T19:52:43 <+izua_> :P
2011-08-13T19:52:58 < dekar_> you are, just use gnome already
2011-08-13T19:53:07 < dekar_> or unity in case of ubuntu
2011-08-13T19:53:30 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:53:30 < dekar_> if you play with low level crap don't whine if you don't understand how it works
2011-08-13T19:53:46 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:53:49 <+izua_> what's there to understand
2011-08-13T19:53:56 <+izua_> there are two competing drivers, one free, one proprietary
2011-08-13T19:54:05 <+izua_> none work 100% :P
2011-08-13T19:54:07 < dekar_> and framebuffer
2011-08-13T19:54:12 < dekar_> that one as well
2011-08-13T19:54:23 <+izua_> get into fpga stuff
2011-08-13T19:54:26 < dekar_> Xorg can be used on top of the framebuffer driver fyi
2011-08-13T19:54:27 <+izua_> and make an open hardware gpu
2011-08-13T19:54:36 < dekar_> buy intel GPUs
2011-08-13T19:54:45 < dekar_> -> profit
2011-08-13T19:54:58 <+izua_> not really, if you buy stuff, you lose money :P
2011-08-13T19:55:16 < dekar_> but you can start working and earn far more
2011-08-13T19:55:50 <+izua_> uh, i wouldn't permanently switch to linux for my work env if my head depended on it
2011-08-13T19:56:16 < dekar_> so get a mac and stop complaining?
2011-08-13T19:56:19 <+izua_> lol
2011-08-13T19:56:28 <+izua_> that doesn't solve anything
2011-08-13T19:56:36 < dekar_> that was my point
2011-08-13T19:56:42 <+izua_> ah lol
2011-08-13T19:56:44 <+izua_> then fu xD
2011-08-13T19:56:52 < dekar_> go and use windows - compile summon-toolchain in cygwin
2011-08-13T19:57:02 <+izua_> you also have a mac, so shut it :P
2011-08-13T19:57:04 < dekar_> cause everything on windows just needs 3 clicks and is so much easier
2011-08-13T19:57:10 < dekar_> I don't
2011-08-13T19:57:31 < dekar_> gave it to a co-worker and constantly laughed at him failing to use it
2011-08-13T19:57:36 <+izua_> i don't like overly complicated stuff tbh
2011-08-13T19:57:41 < dekar_> was fun for like half an hour
2011-08-13T19:57:42 <+izua_> linux is neat with all the flexibility you get
2011-08-13T19:57:58 <+izua_> but seriously, when i have to hack through files everytime i want something done, it starts to get old
2011-08-13T19:58:00 < dekar_> you don't like complicated stuff but use gentoo?
2011-08-13T19:58:09 <+izua_> i don't 'use' it. it's there for fun
2011-08-13T19:58:23 < dekar_> you used to tell me different
2011-08-13T19:58:23 <+izua_> mainly experimenting, etc
2011-08-13T19:58:30 <+izua_> well
2011-08-13T19:58:36 <+izua_> it has the http server and seedbox and router
2011-08-13T19:58:50 < dekar_> so do you use aero on windows?
2011-08-13T19:58:54 <+izua_> no
2011-08-13T19:58:58 < dekar_> and UAC?
2011-08-13T19:59:19 <+izua_> neah, disk freeze and all the bullcrap removed
2011-08-13T19:59:22 < dekar_> which version do you use anyway? xp?
2011-08-13T19:59:42 <+izua_> i have a 7 and an xp
2011-08-13T20:00:00 < dekar_> I still don't get why vista was bad and win7 is good
2011-08-13T20:00:08 <+izua_> never played with it
2011-08-13T20:00:23 < dekar_> totally biased imo
2011-08-13T20:00:34 <+izua_> got a 7 license from the sysadmin at uni, so i just went with it
2011-08-13T20:00:59 < dekar_> so buy some fancy IDE for stm32 development
2011-08-13T20:01:07 < dekar_> they only need 3 clicks
2011-08-13T20:01:14 <+izua_> yes, and they are horrible too
2011-08-13T20:01:16 < Steffanx> dekar_ Vista was new, and had some annoying features
2011-08-13T20:01:34 < Steffanx> And it wa mainly due the bad driver support from manufacturers..
2011-08-13T20:01:35 < dekar_> Steffanx, I used it a bit and it felt like win7 tbh
2011-08-13T20:02:24 < Steffanx> Yes, but win7 wasn't 'new', because some features were introduced in vista :)
2011-08-13T20:02:25 < dekar_> jpa-, I like you for using ubuntu
2011-08-13T20:02:33 < dekar_> do you like arduino as well?
2011-08-13T20:02:50 < dekar_> I don't get why people flame those cause they're targeted at beginners
2011-08-13T20:03:08 < Steffanx> Just because the users are lazy :P
2011-08-13T20:03:09 < dekar_> that's pseudo-elite bullshit *points at izua_*
2011-08-13T20:03:27 < dekar_> Steffanx, so what? We're using OSX - lazy is great :D
2011-08-13T20:03:39 < Steffanx> I use OS X .. that makes my lazy?
2011-08-13T20:03:52 < Steffanx> "Hey I have this and this arduino.. Now i want to connect this and this, how …… blalballba "
2011-08-13T20:04:04 < Steffanx> <= that's what annoys be about arduino :)
2011-08-13T20:04:07 < dekar_> Steffanx, OSX is pretty easy - no need to worry about drivers etc
2011-08-13T20:04:32 < dekar_> OSX is for lazy people
2011-08-13T20:04:44 < Steffanx> I've used OpenSuse as desktop OS for several yes. No need to mess drivers at all
2011-08-13T20:04:56 < dekar_> depends on the hardware
2011-08-13T20:05:03 < jpa-> dekar_: i would like arduino, but i've already gone the pic route
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2011-08-13T20:05:27 < Steffanx> OpenSuse beats every OS i've used before dekar_ :P
2011-08-13T20:05:34 < jpa-> dekar_: i might go with arduino one day
2011-08-13T20:05:36 < dekar_> jpa-, I never had an arduino, but I think I'll get one
2011-08-13T20:05:38 <+izua> you're an elite bullshit :P
2011-08-13T20:05:45 <+izua> dekar_: weren't you going with an arduino from stm32? :P
2011-08-13T20:05:47 < jpa-> if just for fast prototyping
2011-08-13T20:05:51 < dekar_> izua, your face is
2011-08-13T20:05:57 < Steffanx> Come on guys!
2011-08-13T20:06:02 < Steffanx> Bitchfight!!!!
2011-08-13T20:06:10 <+izua> dammit
2011-08-13T20:06:18 < dekar_> Steffanx, we're not serious anyway - for my part at least
2011-08-13T20:06:33 <+izua> ^
2011-08-13T20:06:38 < Steffanx> That doesn't mean you can't make it a bitch fight
2011-08-13T20:07:42 < dekar_> I have this guy at work who actually works at the company next door - he constantly visits me asking stuff about LED pwm for some lighthouse model
2011-08-13T20:07:54 < dekar_> I told him to get an arduino like 3 months ago
2011-08-13T20:08:09 <+izua> ighthouse model?
2011-08-13T20:08:11 < dekar_> he is complaining about credit card payment and paypal etc
2011-08-13T20:08:23 < dekar_> he actually hates the internet I think
2011-08-13T20:08:26 < Steffanx> Ah real german who cares about his privacy?
2011-08-13T20:08:29 <+izua> lol
2011-08-13T20:08:56 <+izua> does he cover his face in lemon juice if he goes in a building with security cameras
2011-08-13T20:08:59 <+izua> and wear a tinfoil hat?
2011-08-13T20:09:01 < dekar_> even my co-workers want me to order an arduino just to step on it the moment he enters our door next time
2011-08-13T20:09:39 <+izua> dekar_: why aren't you fascinated with model stuff?
2011-08-13T20:09:54 < dekar_> that guy has a serious problem, he keeps telling me how an arduino is too much for his purpose and he only wants the chip
2011-08-13T20:10:19 < dekar_> izua, dunno, idc I guess :)
2011-08-13T20:10:22 <+izua> i made this dcc receiver for model buildings for a german guy once.
2011-08-13T20:10:33 <+izua> and ffs, you have that miniatur wunderland in hamburg
2011-08-13T20:10:46 <+izua> which is like what, the equivalent of a few thousand kms of track? :P
2011-08-13T20:11:11 <+izua> YOU DON'T CARE
2011-08-13T20:11:13 <+izua> HOW CAN YOU NOT CARE
2011-08-13T20:11:34 < dekar_> so I keep telling this guy how the arduino is just like 15€ and he really should get one
2011-08-13T20:11:41 <+izua> dekar_: troll him
2011-08-13T20:11:44 <+izua> tell him to get a ft232
2011-08-13T20:11:51 <+izua> and dump data into it in bitbang mode
2011-08-13T20:11:54 < dekar_> last time he came over he told me he stole some TI launchpad somewhere at his company
2011-08-13T20:11:54 <+izua> or even better, a ft2232
2011-08-13T20:12:07 < dekar_> izua, it's supposed to be stand alone
2011-08-13T20:12:16 <+izua> and dump data as i2c stuff
2011-08-13T20:12:29 <+izua> pandaboard
2011-08-13T20:12:32 < dekar_> but now he is all confuses with TI IC related stuff - interrupts etc
2011-08-13T20:12:32 < Steffanx> LOL
2011-08-13T20:12:40 < dekar_> *confused
2011-08-13T20:12:50 < dekar_> he doesn't even know C
2011-08-13T20:12:56 <+izua> neat
2011-08-13T20:13:09 <+izua> it's not like it's a good language or anything
2011-08-13T20:13:11 <+izua> it's old as fuck
2011-08-13T20:13:12 < dekar_> I seriously don't know what this guy does and why he constantly visits me
2011-08-13T20:13:15 <+izua> people use c# and java nowdays
2011-08-13T20:13:21 < Steffanx> It doesnt all work automagically?
2011-08-13T20:13:25 < dekar_> I started making fun of him a lot last time
2011-08-13T20:13:37 < Laurenceb_> izua: yeah lets all run java
2011-08-13T20:13:38 < dekar_> even my bosses were laughing out loud several times
2011-08-13T20:13:42 < Laurenceb_>  </troll>
2011-08-13T20:14:03 < Steffanx> Not that same guy as the one that makes the pcb i hope dekar_ ?
2011-08-13T20:14:10 < Steffanx> *pcb's
2011-08-13T20:14:13 <+izua> Laurenceb_: actually
2011-08-13T20:14:16 < dekar_> like he didn't remember some word to describe how he doesn't like ordering stuff online (probably 'careful') and I suggested paranoid
2011-08-13T20:14:20 <+izua> there is a jvm-like thing for microchip pic
2011-08-13T20:14:25 <+izua> you store the program in eeprom
2011-08-13T20:14:42 < jpa-> izua: jvm-like in that it executes bytecode?
2011-08-13T20:14:44 < Laurenceb_> and jazelle
2011-08-13T20:14:51 < Laurenceb_> but c is so much better
2011-08-13T20:14:51 < jpa-> that does not make it jvm, it just makes it slow :)
2011-08-13T20:14:54 <+izua> *cringe*
2011-08-13T20:14:55 < Steffanx> The bigger AVR32 even have some built-in javastuff
2011-08-13T20:15:06 < Steffanx> But that family is deprecated
2011-08-13T20:15:12  * Laurenceb_ has python running on AVR32
2011-08-13T20:15:19 <+izua> jpa-: not sure, it probably is some minimal env
2011-08-13T20:15:23 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: hmm, tell more
2011-08-13T20:15:31 <+izua> speaking of avr32
2011-08-13T20:15:31 < dekar_> a friend just came over - cya later
2011-08-13T20:15:36 <+izua> dekar_: laters dude
2011-08-13T20:15:42 < Steffanx> AP7000 family Laurenceb_ ?
2011-08-13T20:15:42 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: NGW100 with linux
2011-08-13T20:15:45 < Laurenceb_> yes
2011-08-13T20:15:46 <+izua> Laurenceb_: what's the diff between avr32 and stm32?
2011-08-13T20:15:53 < Steffanx> Ah, that one is OLD AND DEAD
2011-08-13T20:15:54 <+izua> except the custom core in case of avr32
2011-08-13T20:15:54 < Laurenceb_> then i crosscompiled python
2011-08-13T20:16:22 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: ah, didn't know there are so big avr32's
2011-08-13T20:16:41 < Laurenceb_> oh theres only uc3 now
2011-08-13T20:16:44 < Laurenceb_> that sucks
2011-08-13T20:16:56 < Steffanx> You can't really compare the AP7000 family with the basic stm32's izua
2011-08-13T20:17:19 < Steffanx> The UC3 and stm32 are more comparable
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2011-08-13T20:17:36 < Laurenceb_> someone made realtime computer vision car navigation on ap7000
2011-08-13T20:17:39 -!- phantoxe [~destroy@a95-92-86-197.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-13T20:18:06 <+izua> ah, i'm not really sure about anything above 8 bit avrs
2011-08-13T20:18:09 < Steffanx> Using the DSP instructions Laurenceb_ ?
2011-08-13T20:18:28 < Laurenceb_> dunno - saw it on youtube
2011-08-13T20:19:57 < Laurenceb_> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Tools&func=viewItem&item_id=874
2011-08-13T20:20:15 < Steffanx> Tool not found
2011-08-13T20:20:43 < Laurenceb_> http://www.ic-board.de/index.php?cat=c24_AP7000-Starterkits.html
2011-08-13T20:20:56 < Steffanx> Ah I've seen those
2011-08-13T20:20:59 < Steffanx> Expensive shit
2011-08-13T20:21:24 < Steffanx> I'll never buy it anyway, the family is dead/deprecated
2011-08-13T20:21:50 < Steffanx> I do have a ngw100, but that was a gift
2011-08-13T20:21:59 < Steffanx> Tried to sell it but no one wanted it :(
2011-08-13T20:22:08 < Laurenceb_> ill buy it
2011-08-13T20:22:12 < Laurenceb_> how much?
2011-08-13T20:22:52 < Laurenceb_> actually no, i have two df3120 ARM11 boards
2011-08-13T20:22:59 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-13T20:22:59 < Laurenceb_> running linux
2011-08-13T20:23:03 <+izua> neat
2011-08-13T20:23:26 < Laurenceb_> i got 20 ngw100 boards when they first came out
2011-08-13T20:23:32 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-13T20:23:32 < Laurenceb_> sold them all :S
2011-08-13T20:23:48 <+izua> in actual products?
2011-08-13T20:24:00 <+izua> or just reselling the kits?
2011-08-13T20:24:01 < Laurenceb_> no, to university
2011-08-13T20:24:09 < Laurenceb_> they wanted them for lab
2011-08-13T20:26:23 < Laurenceb_> also networked weather stations
2011-08-13T20:27:07 <+izua> so where do avr32s stand compared to stm32s (specifically the f1xx family)
2011-08-13T20:28:25 <+izua> are they faster? do they have a lot of extra hardware? mmu?
2011-08-13T21:30:50 < Steffanx> Hmpf, it is in C++ possible to redefine a define?
2011-08-13T21:31:43 < Steffanx> I changed a C++ lib to C and it seems the original code defines a define twice
2011-08-13T21:39:18 <+izua> uuuh, I don't think so
2011-08-13T21:42:45 < Steffanx> Weird
2011-08-13T21:46:10 < Laurenceb_> izua: ap7000 had an mmu
2011-08-13T21:46:11 <+izua> i recall sometimes redefining a define pops up a warning
2011-08-13T21:46:19 < Laurenceb_> so it could run full linux
2011-08-13T21:46:29 < Laurenceb_> also ~200dmips
2011-08-13T21:46:54 < Laurenceb_> was pretty nice, pity about the bga and fact its been discontinued
2011-08-13T21:51:03 < Steffanx> Aarh
2011-08-13T21:51:09 < Steffanx> I'm about to rewrite all code
2011-08-13T21:51:50 <+izua> Laurenceb_: neat. did it have any eth/mac features?
2011-08-13T21:52:15 < Steffanx> Two :)
2011-08-13T21:52:20 < Steffanx> Two mac's
2011-08-13T21:53:07 <+izua> lol
2011-08-13T21:53:14 <+izua> for a second there i thought you meant apples
2011-08-13T21:53:32 <+izua> and i recalled the bash quote with the guy saying that apple is better because they 'invented' the mac address
2011-08-13T21:53:48 <+izua> that's incredibly neat
2011-08-13T21:53:48 < Steffanx> And it has "– Java Hardware Acceleration" :P
2011-08-13T21:53:52 <+izua> means you could use it like a router
2011-08-13T21:55:07 <+izua> Laurenceb_: what do you do with the boards/chips? as in sample projects, etc
2011-08-13T21:55:30 <+izua> i never understood how would one exploit such complex yet rather exotic architectures
2011-08-13T21:55:34 < Steffanx> Some attached a psp display to it and play doom
2011-08-13T21:55:43 <+izua> uh
2011-08-13T21:55:48 <+izua> i mean except fun, heh :P
2011-08-13T21:56:09 <+izua> sure, it's rather neat to get random hardware and play games on it
2011-08-13T21:56:19 < Steffanx> Oh, they play Quake too
2011-08-13T21:56:28 <+izua> but i'm thinking in a bigger perspective, say you get an order to build a big nasty machine
2011-08-13T21:56:30 < Laurenceb_> i ran linux on it
2011-08-13T21:56:44 < Laurenceb_> and used it as a weather station and high altitude balloon platform
2011-08-13T21:56:53 < Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyAlQygg-k&feature=related that's nice :)
2011-08-13T21:57:00 < Steffanx> "Mario Bros on Atmega 64 micro controller"
2011-08-13T21:57:23 <+izua> what would make you choose such a board or chip over a plain atom computer with a paraport? :P
2011-08-13T21:57:33 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKyB15KwMyg
2011-08-13T21:57:40 < Laurenceb_> pess current draw
2011-08-13T21:57:53 <+izua> Steffanx: neat
2011-08-13T21:57:59 <+izua> but atmega64s are in the 8 bit range, aren't they?
2011-08-13T21:58:06 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-13T21:58:21 <+izua> Steffanx: i think the guy just took the levels
2011-08-13T21:58:28 <+izua> but rewrote the game code
2011-08-13T21:58:45 <+izua> the jumps look really different from the ones in the game
2011-08-13T21:59:36 <+izua> oh wait, no enemies, no bonuses, lol
2011-08-13T22:08:16 < Laurenceb_> http://davidclayton.com/gallery/csi.jpg
2011-08-13T22:09:14 < Steffanx> The original version is better Laurenceb_ :)
2011-08-13T22:09:45 <+izua> lol
2011-08-13T22:09:58 <+izua> situations depicting computers are so unrealistic in movies
2011-08-13T22:13:13 < Steffanx> Doesn't matter :)
2011-08-13T22:28:20 <+izua> hm
2011-08-13T22:28:23 <+izua> something is definitely wrong
2011-08-13T22:28:36 < Steffanx> Yes i agree
2011-08-13T22:28:39 <+izua> i complied the cdcacm example in the libopenstm32
2011-08-13T22:28:47 <+izua> and it still fails to enumerate on both windows and linux
2011-08-13T22:30:17 <+izua> Steffanx: there are no clock fuses or anything with the stm32 right
2011-08-13T22:31:49 < Steffanx> No..
2011-08-13T22:32:02 < Steffanx> Uhm, maybe the code protection blalba?
2011-08-13T22:32:13 <+izua> yeah, but how would that influence usb?
2011-08-13T22:32:18 < Steffanx> No, not really
2011-08-13T22:32:43 <+izua> i get a stream of device descriptor read/64 error
2011-08-13T22:32:45 <+izua> and then hmm
2011-08-13T22:32:49 <+izua> ok this looks promising
2011-08-13T22:33:03 <+izua> cdc_acm_someaddress: the device cannot do calls on its own
2011-08-13T22:33:34 <+izua> lsusb doesn't list it though
2011-08-13T22:34:06 <+izua> hmphm. usb-devices does.
2011-08-13T23:15:48 <+izua> OH YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING
2011-08-13T23:15:58 < Steffanx> Yes i am
2011-08-13T23:16:00 <+izua> so yeah
2011-08-13T23:16:09 <+izua> i think i'm sensing a pattern here.
2011-08-13T23:16:31 <+izua> pebkac is pebkac.
2011-08-13T23:16:38 <+izua> so i needed to scan some shit ago, right?
2011-08-13T23:16:58 <+izua> took the type a-type usb cable, put it in the scanner, fail. took photos of the docs, all fine.
2011-08-13T23:17:06 <+izua> then moved the cable back to the devboard, still failing
2011-08-13T23:17:15 <+izua> now i needed to print something, suddenly, printer fail.
2011-08-13T23:17:24 < Steffanx> hub not connected?
2011-08-13T23:17:30 <+izua> nah
2011-08-13T23:17:34 <+izua> it's probably a failcable
2011-08-13T23:17:37 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-13T23:17:41 < Steffanx> Now.. fix my problem too
2011-08-13T23:17:41 <+izua> since i used it for all of those :P
2011-08-13T23:17:49 <+izua> the one with the out of phase issues?
2011-08-13T23:17:58 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-13T23:18:03 < Steffanx> The Radio module shit
2011-08-13T23:18:09 <+izua> what's wrong with it?
2011-08-13T23:18:13 < Steffanx> dunno
2011-08-13T23:18:14 < Steffanx> :(
2011-08-13T23:18:23 < Steffanx> Probably a misconfig somewhere
2011-08-13T23:18:27 <+izua> this probably sounds discouraging
2011-08-13T23:18:37 <+izua> but a lot of the shit i have out there in the field has mostly my libs
2011-08-13T23:18:45 <+izua> because every time i messed with someone else's lib there were fails
2011-08-13T23:18:55 <+izua> including peter fleury's lcd lib for the avr.
2011-08-13T23:19:08 < Steffanx> It should pull a pin low, but it doesn't
2011-08-13T23:19:19 <+izua> probably the only advice i can give right now is rewrite your own lib
2011-08-13T23:19:23 <+izua> uh
2011-08-13T23:19:34 <+izua> ok, check what the module expects.
2011-08-13T23:19:38 < Steffanx> I triple-triple-triple checked the config, but no luck yet.
2011-08-13T23:19:55 <+izua> make sure, for example if the module does push-pull and your chip does oepn drain
2011-08-13T23:19:58 <+izua> or the other way round
2011-08-13T23:20:03 <+izua> it might be a simple logic mismatch like that
2011-08-13T23:20:51 < Steffanx> The EXTI pin is floating
2011-08-13T23:21:02 < Steffanx> At never fires an interrupt, until i pull the line low myself
2011-08-13T23:28:34 <+izua> add a pullup
2011-08-13T23:28:43 <+izua> and make sure the skew rate is respected
2011-08-13T23:29:14 <+izua> add a schmitt trigger buffer if need be
2011-08-13T23:29:52  * Laurenceb_ cant be bothered to read scrollback
2011-08-13T23:30:00 < Laurenceb_> this is on stm32?
2011-08-13T23:30:04 <+izua> lol
2011-08-13T23:30:09 <+izua> stm32 is more like #defocus
2011-08-13T23:30:11 < Laurenceb_> does exti work or not?
2011-08-13T23:30:21 <+izua> it works, but only on transitions
2011-08-13T23:30:26 < Laurenceb_> i see
2011-08-13T23:30:45 < Laurenceb_> i had issues with initialisation, but that doesnt look like your problem
2011-08-13T23:30:58 < Laurenceb_> i got reset each interrupts
2011-08-13T23:31:48 <+izua> myeah
2011-08-13T23:31:56 <+izua> my usb issue turned out to be a bad cable ._.
2011-08-13T23:41:10 <+izua> Steffanx: try having the pin on the mcu low
2011-08-13T23:41:26 <+izua> stm32 allows that, it's the opendrain mode
--- Day changed Sun Aug 14 2011
2011-08-14T01:04:55 < dekar_> izua, epic - bad cable O.o
2011-08-14T01:05:13 < dekar_> I also have a few, they have several ohms resistance
2011-08-14T01:54:34 <+izua> they should have a 90 ohms impedance
2011-08-14T02:20:42 < dekar_> izua, dunno how to measure impedance
2011-08-14T02:22:16 < dekar_> wouldn't that need RF equipment?
2011-08-14T02:30:01 < Steffanx> (vector) network analyzer is what you 'need' dekar_
2011-08-14T02:30:04 < Steffanx> *a
2011-08-14T02:30:22 < dekar_> hm?
2011-08-14T02:30:33 < Steffanx> for the measurement
2011-08-14T02:31:13 < dekar_> that's why I prefer optical stuff
2011-08-14T02:31:27 < dekar_> high frequencies don't make it go nuts
2011-08-14T02:32:11 < Steffanx> Don't forget teh HF on the pcb
2011-08-14T02:33:15 < dekar_> that's why I am outsourcing it
2011-08-14T02:33:22 < dekar_> glad I have the budget to do so
2011-08-14T02:34:28 < Steffanx> I'm not going to make it to 3am again
2011-08-14T02:34:31 < Steffanx> So have a good night
2011-08-14T02:34:41 < dekar_> night
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2011-08-14T03:43:56 <+izua> dekar_: actually the same deal happens in optical mediums too
2011-08-14T03:44:36 <+izua> try to put some other spectra other than near visible/visible through an optical fiber and see how much it will be distorted
2011-08-14T03:46:12 <+izua> dekar_: but yeah, any kind of >20MHz stuff is a bitch
2011-08-14T03:46:23 <+izua> i plan on experimenting with PAL later on
2011-08-14T03:46:43 <+izua> and it's probably going to be a huge pita without any actual equipment, although it's only 10 MHz and only analog
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2011-08-14T14:10:31 < dekar__> izua, they don't distort each other
2011-08-14T14:10:44 < dekar__> we actually do that
2011-08-14T14:10:57 < dekar__> the point is the lasers often leak some other wavelengths
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2011-08-14T22:28:39 < Steffanx> Uhm izua  there?
2011-08-14T22:30:57 < Steffanx> Yesterday you said
2011-08-14T22:30:57 < Steffanx> [22:41:10]  <izua> Steffanx: try having the pin on the mcu low
2011-08-14T22:30:57 < Steffanx> [22:41:26]  <izua> stm32 allows that, it's the opendrain mode
2011-08-14T22:31:05 < Steffanx> But OD is output afaik
--- Day changed Mon Aug 15 2011
2011-08-15T00:01:42 <+izua> ah
2011-08-15T00:01:49 <+izua> it's an output from the radio
2011-08-15T00:02:00 <+izua> then add a pullup on it, maybe the pin on the module is OD
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2011-08-15T12:10:59 < Steffanx> I'm lost. It's definitely not the irq pin that doesn't get low. It gets low when i enable the wake up timer of the module
2011-08-15T12:11:06 < Steffanx> So I'm lost :P
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2011-08-15T18:53:58 < Laurenceb_> does memset work?
2011-08-15T18:54:11 < Laurenceb_> i cant seem to get code using memset to compile with codesourcery
2011-08-15T18:58:56 <+izua> Steffanx: some years ago when i started messing with pics, everything was rather foobar
2011-08-15T18:59:18 <+izua> i couldn't get at all a simple hd44780 com protocol up (from scratch, not a different lib)
2011-08-15T18:59:34 <+izua> what i did was that i exposed some io lines directly to pc software, and did everything there
2011-08-15T18:59:50 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: do you have a libc?
2011-08-15T18:59:52 <+izua> i still do that sometimes, when i don't feel that a protocol for a specific chip is documented well enough
2011-08-15T19:00:00 <+izua> s/is/isn't
2011-08-15T19:00:09 <+izua> eh, disregard it, actually
2011-08-15T19:01:04 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: what headers do i need?
2011-08-15T19:01:17 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: string.h
2011-08-15T19:01:28 < Laurenceb_> ok, thats already included
2011-08-15T19:01:38 < jpa-> what is the error message?
2011-08-15T19:01:43 < Laurenceb_> error: expected ')' before numeric constant
2011-08-15T19:01:53 < Laurenceb_> memset(UAVtalk_semaphores,0,1);
2011-08-15T19:02:04 < Laurenceb_> where UAVtalk_semaphores is an array
2011-08-15T19:02:35 < jpa-> put more of the code in pastebin
2011-08-15T19:03:09 < jpa-> that is a syntax error, so unless something redefines memset as a macro, it's a problem somewhere in your syntax..
2011-08-15T19:03:51 < Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/j4UmZmvE
2011-08-15T19:04:21 < Laurenceb_> line16, i simplified it to test if it would work
2011-08-15T19:04:57 < jpa-> you can't put code outside of functions
2011-08-15T19:05:24 < jpa-> you can do just = {0} instead
2011-08-15T19:05:51 < Laurenceb_> oh god
2011-08-15T19:05:54 < Laurenceb_> doh
2011-08-15T19:06:36 < Laurenceb_> obvious, how did i miss that
2011-08-15T19:07:13 < jpa-> hehe, that code looks familiar
2011-08-15T19:07:28 < jpa-> i'm making a protocol buffers implementation small enough for stm32 :P
2011-08-15T19:08:42 < Laurenceb_> global variables will be intialised as zero anyway right?
2011-08-15T19:08:49 < jpa-> nope
2011-08-15T19:08:55 < jpa-> IIRC
2011-08-15T19:09:06 < ziph> Yes, they will, if you're talking about C.
2011-08-15T19:09:17 < Laurenceb_> C on stm32 :P
2011-08-15T19:09:28 < jpa-> ah, actually yes
2011-08-15T19:09:38 < ziph> They get put into the BSS segment which init runs memset on.
2011-08-15T19:09:57 < ziph> C++ static initialisers get run on an STM32.
2011-08-15T19:11:33 < Laurenceb_> what does a NULL pointer point to?
2011-08-15T19:11:43 < Laurenceb_> i mean whats the address?
2011-08-15T19:12:10 < ziph> It depends on the implementation of the C compiler. But every compiler written in the last few decades uses 0x00000000.
2011-08-15T19:13:34 < Laurenceb_> ah cool, so i dont have to memset
2011-08-15T19:13:40 < Laurenceb_> to set as NULL
2011-08-15T19:13:52 < ziph> Nope.
2011-08-15T19:16:00 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: yeah im trying to compress the crazy openpilot code to a single stm32
2011-08-15T19:16:18 < Laurenceb_> atm openpilot uses three or four separate boards
2011-08-15T19:16:31 < Laurenceb_> each with a separate stm32 :S
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2011-08-15T19:29:41 < Vaati_> aha
2011-08-15T19:30:25 < Vaati_> so I'm trying to get i2c working -- for some reason, my compiler is spitting out errors in reference to the NVIC statemens
2011-08-15T19:30:28 < Vaati_> statements *
2011-08-15T19:31:52 < Vaati_> in other words, ST's i2c appnote code isnt compiling   ;_;
2011-08-15T19:32:31 < jpa-> what errors?
2011-08-15T19:33:15 < Vaati_> one sec and i'll paste
2011-08-15T19:33:51 < Vaati_> arm-none-eabi-gcc -I/home/fkunecke/lib-arm7-cm3/ -I/home/fkunecke/lib-arm7-cm3/trunk/ucos/stm32lib/inc/ -c -fno-common -Os -mcpu=cortex-m3 -mthumb main.c
2011-08-15T19:33:54 < Vaati_> ..linking
2011-08-15T19:33:57 < Vaati_> arm-none-eabi-ld -v -Tstm32.ld -nostartfiles -o main.elf main.o
2011-08-15T19:33:59 < Vaati_> GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.20.51.20100809
2011-08-15T19:34:02 < Vaati_> main.o: In function `NVIC_Configuration':
2011-08-15T19:34:04 < Vaati_> main.c:(.text+0x4a): undefined reference to `NVIC_PriorityGroupConfig'
2011-08-15T19:34:07 < Vaati_> main.o: In function `main':
2011-08-15T19:34:09 < Vaati_> main.c:(.text+0x90): undefined reference to `I2C_LowLevel_Init'
2011-08-15T19:34:12 < Vaati_> main.c:(.text+0xa0): undefined reference to `I2C_Master_BufferRead'
2011-08-15T19:34:14 < Vaati_> make: *** [main.elf] Error 1
2011-08-15T19:34:17 < Vaati_> sorry bout the long paste .....
2011-08-15T19:34:23 < jpa-> pastebin.com is good for long pastes
2011-08-15T19:34:38 < Vaati_> yeah -- in hindsight, I should have done that
2011-08-15T19:35:19 < Vaati_> at any rate -- i put all the files needed for the stm32 in ~/lib-arm7-cm3/
2011-08-15T19:36:02 < Vaati_> and I know that NVIC_PriorityGroupConfig is defined in misc.h, but for some reason it isnt working
2011-08-15T19:36:47 < jpa-> well, you need the code for it too
2011-08-15T19:37:06 < jpa-> as in, the stm32 stdperiph library
2011-08-15T19:37:17 < Vaati_> hmm
2011-08-15T19:37:19 < jpa-> it is included in the application note zip
2011-08-15T19:37:47 < Vaati_> which AN ?
2011-08-15T19:37:57 < Vaati_> or is there one specifically for the stdperiph
2011-08-15T19:37:57 < jpa-> an2824
2011-08-15T19:38:00 < Vaati_> ah  ok
2011-08-15T19:38:12 < jpa-> dunno which i2c appnote you were referring to
2011-08-15T19:38:50 < Vaati_> oh I have that
2011-08-15T19:39:05 < Vaati_> hmmmm
2011-08-15T19:39:07 < Vaati_> one sec
2011-08-15T19:40:22 < Vaati_> yeah, all of the includes for it are in ~/lib-arm7-cm3/
2011-08-15T19:40:30 < Vaati_> plus their source files
2011-08-15T19:41:02 < jpa-> but you are not including the source files in your compilation
2011-08-15T19:41:38 < jpa-> you need to compile each of them with gcc and then include the .o files in your ld line
2011-08-15T19:42:05 < jpa-> (well, actually, you can just figure out which drivers you need and include only those)
2011-08-15T19:43:07 < Vaati_> wait what
2011-08-15T19:50:35 < Laurenceb_> i2c is a pita
2011-08-15T19:50:46 < Vaati_> "pita" ?
2011-08-15T19:53:30 < jpa-> is not
2011-08-15T19:54:44 < Vaati_> but what is pita in the first place -- last time I checked, it was nothing more than a variety of bread
2011-08-15T19:56:06 < jpa-> it's a recursive acronym for pita in the ass
2011-08-15T19:56:14 < Vaati_> o
2011-08-15T19:56:27 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-15T21:31:55 < ziph> Anyone in the US awake?
2011-08-15T21:33:45 <+izua> Vaati_: you should probably have your makefile include the lib
2011-08-15T21:34:08 <+izua> or if it's not compiled, include its headers in your main, and compile the source files you're interested
2011-08-15T21:34:10 <+izua> into
2011-08-15T21:34:24 <+izua> ziph: hai
2011-08-15T21:35:11 < ziph> izua: Never mind, I found a way to tell this website I was in the US and confirmed it is indeed hiding products from Australians. ;)
2011-08-15T21:37:03  * izua also hates geolocation
2011-08-15T21:37:13 <+izua> and mostly anything location-aware
2011-08-15T21:37:19 < ziph> Digikey has some fairly severe geolocation. ;)
2011-08-15T21:37:57 < ziph> If you're not in the US they actually require you to nominate what your order will be used for in detail.
2011-08-15T21:38:10 < ziph> If they aren't happy with your answers they hold the order.
2011-08-15T21:39:25 < ziph> In this case they've listed some innocuous part as not for export.
2011-08-15T21:42:46 < Vaati_> wow thats kinda stupid
2011-08-15T21:43:01 < ziph> Yeap.
2011-08-15T21:43:36 < ziph> And by the time they've held your order for an inquisition you're asleep and it delays your order by a day.
2011-08-15T21:53:32 < Steffanx> I HATE bad documentation
2011-08-15T21:58:19 < Vaati_> agreed, Steffanx
2011-08-15T21:58:40 < Vaati_> especially when "bad documentation" is in fact incorrect documentation
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2011-08-16T00:10:31 <+izua> huh
2011-08-16T00:10:37 <+izua> SDIO peripheral doesn't support SDHC cards
2011-08-16T00:10:41 <+izua> full of fail :(
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2011-08-16T16:02:12 < dekar_> izua, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/6/62/WindowsHebrew.PNG
2011-08-16T16:03:47 < Steffanx> hpf
2011-08-16T16:07:33 < Steffanx> I was looking for photoshop marks, but i couldn't find them :(
2011-08-16T17:14:57 < dekar_> Steffanx, 100% legit jewish windows XD
2011-08-16T17:15:08 < dekar_> so fucked up
2011-08-16T17:28:47 < Steffanx> Impossible dekar_
2011-08-16T17:29:07 < Steffanx> At least, not more fucked up than the original version :P
2011-08-16T17:29:25 < dekar_> my guess is that they wanna be like mac
2011-08-16T17:29:33 < dekar_> that's why they mirror everything
2011-08-16T17:30:44 < Steffanx> Or just because they are more 'right orientated'?
2011-08-16T17:32:10 < Steffanx> Where did you find that image anyway?
2011-08-16T17:32:19 < Steffanx> Official wiki page?
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2011-08-16T19:10:55 <+izua> hebrew is written from right to left, yea ._.
2011-08-16T19:11:09 <+izua> i think arabian also goes like that
2011-08-16T19:27:28 < Vaati_> wow ....
2011-08-16T19:28:04 < Vaati_> I was for once a blind idiot, pretending to not know how to do anything and simply following a tutorial -- in the end it worked
2011-08-16T19:28:13 < Vaati_> -_-
2011-08-16T19:28:16 < Vaati_> i feel stupid
2011-08-16T19:28:53 < Steffanx> I feel stupid too
2011-08-16T19:28:58 < Steffanx> Just don't know why yet
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2011-08-16T20:51:23 < Steffanx> dekar_ please fix this rf module for me
2011-08-16T20:51:37 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-16T20:51:53 < Steffanx> I start to believe it could be a hw problem
2011-08-16T20:52:22 < dekar_> send it over
2011-08-16T20:53:16 < Steffanx> Ok :P
2011-08-16T21:00:06 < Steffanx> The module is configured by default to output a 1mhz clock on a pin, one module seems to do this
2011-08-16T21:00:21 < Steffanx> The one on my pcb only does 32-35kHz :S
2011-08-16T21:00:51 < Steffanx> I can remove the module from the pcb, but i'll probably destroy the module with that
2011-08-16T21:01:03 < Steffanx> ( I removed one before and now the pads of the module are gone :( )
2011-08-16T21:02:03 < Steffanx> So: Yay
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2011-08-16T21:57:17 < Steffanx> New song: It's all about the module
2011-08-16T22:11:00 < dekar_> Steffanx, why don't you get the RF stm32?
2011-08-16T22:11:39 < dekar_> izua, schematics still aren't finished
2011-08-16T22:12:02 < dekar_> izua, I don't see how it is that hard to do those, why didn't you want to do them?
2011-08-16T22:12:25 < dekar_> do you think I should properly learn kicad and do them myself?
2011-08-16T22:14:41 < dekar_> it's just the schematics, not even layout or routing
2011-08-16T22:15:19 < dekar_> Steffanx, my problem is that I am a total noob when it comes to electronics - I wouldn't know how to high-pass/low-pass or which linear voltage regulator to pick
2011-08-16T22:15:32 < dekar_> so I guess that's quite a bit to learn
2011-08-16T22:16:36 < Steffanx> 1) because it's 2,4GHz which needs some more special pcb design
2011-08-16T22:17:09 < dekar_> hm - HF sucks
2011-08-16T22:17:09 < Steffanx> 2) 433MHz's range should be more
2011-08-16T22:17:44 < Steffanx> I'm also a big failure
2011-08-16T22:17:57 < Steffanx> !@#$%ˆ&*()(*&ˆ%$#@  why does the stm32 doesn't start anymore
2011-08-16T22:18:10 < Steffanx> Did i break it when i desoldered the rf module?!?!
2011-08-16T22:18:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3f4n9s3Kug
2011-08-16T22:18:53 < dekar_> they have certified small boards with antenna :D
2011-08-16T22:19:18 < Steffanx> I used a rfm22b should be good
2011-08-16T22:19:24 < dekar_> another reason to get a stm32w I guess
2011-08-16T22:20:17 < Steffanx> AND it's only 36mhz :P
2011-08-16T22:20:43 < dekar_> does that matter?
2011-08-16T22:21:07 < dekar_> Steffanx, I just realized today we also have this IOIO lying around
2011-08-16T22:21:32 < dekar_> since everyone was "WOW ANDROID ACCESSORY STUFF - SO COOL"
2011-08-16T22:21:35 < Steffanx> You NEEED speed :P
2011-08-16T22:21:37 < dekar_> so they ordered it
2011-08-16T22:21:53 < dekar_> and I am the only guy using embedded/electronic stuff
2011-08-16T22:21:59 < dekar_> and I didn't care about it
2011-08-16T22:22:01 < Steffanx> HMpf
2011-08-16T22:22:09 < Steffanx> I had to rebuild my project :S
2011-08-16T22:22:22 < dekar_> now it works?
2011-08-16T22:24:21 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-16T22:24:34 < Steffanx> The module not yet though :(
2011-08-16T22:25:28 < dekar_> I want one of those RF stm32 :D
2011-08-16T22:25:31 < dekar_> so cool
2011-08-16T22:25:43 < dekar_> so sad they lack USB though
2011-08-16T22:25:46 < dekar_> I want USB
2011-08-16T22:28:00 < dekar_> Steffanx, is it hard to do boards for small projects? like for someone like me who is a computer science guy?
2011-08-16T22:28:15 < dekar_> I guess I could steal most of it from open projects
2011-08-16T22:29:43 < Steffanx> No, basic stuff.. 5/3.3V isn't that hard
2011-08-16T22:30:02 < dekar_> it has to have USB
2011-08-16T22:30:05 < Steffanx> And seeedstudio is cheap so you can screw it up a few times :P
2011-08-16T22:30:19 < dekar_> I'd have to pay for soldering though
2011-08-16T22:30:28 < dekar_> don't feel like soldering a stm32
2011-08-16T22:30:38 < Steffanx> !@#$%ˆ&* FUCK THIS
2011-08-16T22:30:41 < dekar_> did you solder one?
2011-08-16T22:30:42 < Steffanx> (sorry for my words)
2011-08-16T22:30:49 < Steffanx> It WORKS
2011-08-16T22:30:53 < dekar_> neat
2011-08-16T22:30:55 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-16T22:31:12 < Steffanx> It took me !@#$%ˆ& 5 days to find the module was the problem
2011-08-16T22:31:35 < dekar_> didn't I tell you that you should try a few other ones?
2011-08-16T22:32:04 < dekar_> I always order many, I think I still have like 15 HD44780 left over :D
2011-08-16T22:32:21 < dekar_> some have really nice colors
2011-08-16T22:32:23 < Steffanx> The problem is.. i've soldered the module to a pcb
2011-08-16T22:32:28 < Steffanx> because it's a smd-ish module
2011-08-16T22:32:36 < Steffanx> I break the module when i desolder it :(
2011-08-16T22:32:57 < dekar_> can't you solder it dead bug style?
2011-08-16T22:33:08 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-16T22:33:12 < Steffanx> It's pretty big
2011-08-16T22:33:12 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/Dock-21-20110610-144105.jpg
2011-08-16T22:33:45 < dekar_> did you do that board? O.o
2011-08-16T22:34:27 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-16T22:34:40 < dekar_> I would have paid you like 1k€ for doing something like that for me earlier this year
2011-08-16T22:34:48 < dekar_> izua, somehow gave up :/
2011-08-16T22:34:52 < Steffanx> It could be a more compact, but it's just a prototype :P
2011-08-16T22:35:00 < dekar_> and the guy doing it now totally sucks at it
2011-08-16T22:35:57 < Steffanx> me too :p
2011-08-16T22:36:06 < Steffanx> This one was actually quite easy
2011-08-16T22:36:14 < Steffanx> And it's not perfect
2011-08-16T22:36:35 < Steffanx> For some reason the ARM resets when I touch the ground
2011-08-16T22:36:39 < Steffanx> of the pcb
2011-08-16T22:36:47 < Steffanx> it doesn't happen always though
2011-08-16T22:38:11 < dekar_> O.o
2011-08-16T22:38:13 < dekar_> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/flexoptix/2010-05-12%2016.56.55.jpg
2011-08-16T22:38:18 < dekar_> that was the flexbox1 pcb
2011-08-16T22:38:36 < dekar_> and I basically just wanted to replace the ftdi with a stm32
2011-08-16T22:38:42 < dekar_> sorry, quality sucks
2011-08-16T22:40:12 < Steffanx> Many pins on hte otherside of the board?
2011-08-16T22:41:43 < dekar_> Steffanx, dunno what you mean
2011-08-16T22:42:15 < dekar_> pins? the basic one just had holes - I soldered those pin headers myself - they're not on the normal board
2011-08-16T22:42:48 < dekar_> I think the bottom side is mostly ground - it's a four layer pcb
2011-08-16T22:42:53 < Steffanx> Or is that text?
2011-08-16T22:43:00 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20110816-214238.png
2011-08-16T22:43:33 < dekar_> those are 0ohm resistors
2011-08-16T22:43:35 < dekar_> tons of them
2011-08-16T22:43:37 < dekar_> millions
2011-08-16T22:43:40 < dekar_> all over it
2011-08-16T22:43:41 < dekar_> dunno why
2011-08-16T22:43:54 < dekar_> we outsourced it
2011-08-16T22:44:02 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-16T22:45:26 < dekar_> I really don't think there is much to it - some ICs for LEDs (do you need them?) some weird slots for transceivers and that's it basically
2011-08-16T22:45:37 < dekar_> it's all about i2c
2011-08-16T22:46:07 < dekar_> so all there is to do is hooking up i2c from the ftdi/stm32 to the transceiver slots
2011-08-16T22:46:33 < dekar_> normally there are metal cages around them, I didn't like them :)
2011-08-16T22:50:57 < dekar_> Steffanx, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/prototype.jpg
2011-08-16T22:51:00 < dekar_> better pic
2011-08-16T22:53:56 < dekar_> does that look hard to do?
2011-08-16T22:54:11 < dekar_> the left board is the futurlec evalboard
2011-08-16T22:55:11 < dekar_> I like that pic - so high-res - you can even guess the FTDI logo :D
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2011-08-16T23:04:28 < dekar_> Steffanx, nothing? talk to me :)
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2011-08-17T01:01:12 < Steffanx> dekar_ i was afk :)
2011-08-17T01:01:51 < dekar_> how dare you!
2011-08-17T01:01:53 < Steffanx> Doesn't look that hard no dekar_
2011-08-17T01:02:26 < dekar_> I wonder why izua gave up on it then :/
2011-08-17T01:02:51 < dekar_> and why the guy who is working on it now doesn't finish it
2011-08-17T01:03:04 < dekar_> he has been working on it for about 6 months
2011-08-17T01:03:17 < Steffanx> I wonder why it has so many 0 ohm resistors
2011-08-17T01:03:38 < Steffanx> Nothing on the other side of the board?
2011-08-17T01:04:03 < dekar_> Steffanx, dunno, but those are fun - last time we had those boards manufactured they just didn't add those 0ohm resistors telling us 0 means nothing so there is no need for them
2011-08-17T01:04:13 < dekar_> ofc nothing worked since they're needed as bridges
2011-08-17T01:04:33 < dekar_> I don't have one here, but I am pretty sure the bottom side is empty
2011-08-17T01:05:07 < dekar_> it was a german company manufacturing those boards btw :)
2011-08-17T01:13:07 < Steffanx> I see more small companies do that
2011-08-17T01:13:17 < Steffanx> Outsource things and get 'crap'
2011-08-17T01:32:01 < dekar_> Steffanx, our webhosting we try to outsource atm is far worse
2011-08-17T01:32:16 < dekar_> we have those guys "managing" our root server
2011-08-17T01:32:26 < dekar_> and those guys "developing" our web-store
2011-08-17T01:32:29 < Steffanx> How so?
2011-08-17T01:33:00 < dekar_> and in the middle there is our internal bugtracker - and I get all the tickets once the system blocks
2011-08-17T01:33:19 < dekar_> like they ask me all the time which packages they should install on the root server
2011-08-17T01:33:30 < dekar_> so I send a list to the managed hoster
2011-08-17T01:33:34 < dekar_> and they install them
2011-08-17T01:33:40 < dekar_> total snafu
2011-08-17T01:34:10 < dekar_> I don't see why those web-developers can't just tell the hoster what they need themselves
2011-08-17T01:34:19 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-17T01:34:21 < dekar_> I mean it's _managed_ hosting
2011-08-17T01:34:49 < dekar_> they're like "mail isn't working! O.o"
2011-08-17T01:35:32 < dekar_> so I told the hoster to set up msmtp to forward outgoing mails to our mailserver
2011-08-17T01:35:50 < dekar_> and they told me they rather want to use exim and send the mails directly
2011-08-17T01:36:13 < dekar_> which makes no sense given the server doesn't have the same hostname it is sending from
2011-08-17T01:36:17 < dekar_> so mails end up in spam
2011-08-17T01:36:21 < dekar_> SNAFU
2011-08-17T01:36:37 < dekar_> and I really don't even like administration that much
2011-08-17T01:37:21 < Steffanx> Find a new one?
2011-08-17T01:37:39 < Steffanx> Or an VPS/Decidated server and manage it :)
2011-08-17T01:38:17 < dekar_> I cbf managing a server
2011-08-17T01:38:26 < dekar_> so annoying - people always want me to install crap on it
2011-08-17T01:38:38 < dekar_> or open these annoying bugtickets
2011-08-17T01:38:44 < dekar_> lemme find one to show you
2011-08-17T01:39:13 < dekar_> Steffanx, "0001440: Apache reacts almost not when accessing via OpenVPN and Mac OSX"
2011-08-17T01:39:43 < dekar_> I barely understand the title
2011-08-17T01:39:56 < Steffanx> almost not :)
2011-08-17T01:40:04 < Steffanx> Seems like a very bad translation to me :P
2011-08-17T01:40:11 < dekar_> my boss wrote that ticket
2011-08-17T01:40:13 < Steffanx> *looks
2011-08-17T01:40:25 < dekar_> he got his master of science in australia
2011-08-17T01:40:38 < dekar_> he was in the US before going to australia
2011-08-17T01:40:48 < dekar_> I really wonder why his english sucks so hard
2011-08-17T01:40:49 < Steffanx> Ah, ok :P
2011-08-17T01:41:21 < dekar_> it's about the scot guy who has random problems when using our VPN from his home router
2011-08-17T01:42:05 < dekar_> and I am PRETTY SURE APACHE IS NOT THE ORIGIN
2011-08-17T01:42:13 < dekar_> -.-
2011-08-17T01:42:22 < dekar_> he asked me to have a look at the apache logs
2011-08-17T01:42:25 < dekar_> I refused
2011-08-17T01:42:31 < Steffanx> Heghe
2011-08-17T01:42:44 < dekar_> his argument was he could reach the windows servers fine
2011-08-17T01:44:52 < Steffanx> Colleagues are great isnt it?
2011-08-17T01:45:32 < Steffanx> *aren't they
2011-08-17T01:48:58 < dekar_> awesome
2011-08-17T01:49:04 < dekar_> at least I get paid
2011-08-17T01:49:26 < dekar_> Steffanx, he also suggested he could fix it by switching the ISP
2011-08-17T01:49:38 < Steffanx> Arh, i really have to setup a new uart connection
2011-08-17T01:49:42 < dekar_> since it worked while staying at some hotel
2011-08-17T01:49:50 < Steffanx> Debugging with a led has some limitations
2011-08-17T01:52:09 < dekar_> I requested nslookup, http request via telnet and wireshark dumps
2011-08-17T01:52:35 < dekar_> he's a mac user btw
2011-08-17T01:52:48 < dekar_> oh and half of our company is cisco certified
2011-08-17T01:54:40 < Steffanx> Cisco certified… so usless :P
2011-08-17T01:54:42 < Steffanx> useless
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2011-08-17T05:09:54 <+izua> dekar_: because it was a huge mess
2011-08-17T05:10:04 <+izua> and at that point i was rather busy with other shit, midterms, etc
2011-08-17T05:10:40 <+izua> took me two days to sort everything out on the two connectors and how they connected to the ftdi, and when i finally opened the actual schematic i was like BLUIRGGHBBRHHR WTF IS THIS
2011-08-17T05:11:24 <+izua> tried to make it nice, so i can view connections easily, but a lot of connections were made in a silly way, thus, when i tried to move the wires, something else happened.
2011-08-17T05:11:56 <+izua> so i realised it would have taken me much more than i initially hoped for, so i didn't want to drag you guys behind, etc
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2011-08-17T13:34:56 < dekar__> Steffanx, now it was my turn to have a stupid bug
2011-08-17T13:34:58 < dekar__> *((uint16_t*)usbOutPacket + 0x09) = delay;
2011-08-17T13:34:59 < dekar__> vs
2011-08-17T13:35:05 < dekar__> *((uint16_t*)(usbOutPacket + 0x09)) = delay;
2011-08-17T13:36:02 < dekar__> I actually did that twice, and the first time it worked by pure luck (was in some area I didn't use yet)
2011-08-17T13:37:07 < Steffanx> *((uint6_t*)&usbOutPacket[9]) ftw? :p
2011-08-17T13:37:38 < Steffanx> *16
2011-08-17T13:42:12 < dekar__> I guess
2011-08-17T13:43:26 < Steffanx> usbOutPacket = uint8_t dekar__ ?
2011-08-17T13:43:48 < Steffanx> uint8_t *
2011-08-17T13:44:46 < dekar__> I actually tried that, but I came to the conclusion I am not USB compatible
2011-08-17T13:46:05 < dekar__> fixing that bug broke with my driver
2011-08-17T13:46:11 < dekar__> since the offsets changed
2011-08-17T13:46:14 < dekar__> :/
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2011-08-17T15:10:53 < dekar__> Steffanx, bugs fixed, everything works fine :D
2011-08-17T15:18:46 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-17T15:19:00 < Steffanx> I hate it when developers of libs remove things in releases !@#$%ˆ&*
2011-08-17T15:19:22 < Steffanx> *newer releases
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2011-08-17T16:02:07 < dekar__> Steffanx, agree
2011-08-17T16:02:14 < dekar__> I totally hate breaking apis in general
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2011-08-17T16:09:58 < Steffanx> minicom ftw!
2011-08-17T16:10:42 < Steffanx> minicom + usbserial converter can break usb drivers
2011-08-17T16:11:39 < Steffanx> Apple made every input device usb based, so i couldn't do anything anymore
2011-08-17T16:22:27 < dekar__> lol
2011-08-17T16:22:40 < dekar__> Steffanx, I just ordered two Teensy++ 2.0
2011-08-17T16:22:55 < dekar__> my first avr micros :)
2011-08-17T16:22:59 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-17T16:23:12 < Steffanx> 2.0 has usb host?
2011-08-17T16:23:28 < Steffanx> No :(
2011-08-17T16:24:33 < Steffanx> A big ass AVR :P
2011-08-17T16:24:46 < dekar__> it has usb though
2011-08-17T16:24:54 < dekar__> why would I need host anyway?
2011-08-17T16:24:54 < Steffanx> Yes, device
2011-08-17T16:25:02 < Steffanx> To connect other fancy things
2011-08-17T16:25:14 < Steffanx> Like bluetooth, rocket launcher :)
2011-08-17T16:25:17 < dekar__> I'll solder it to the NOR flash of my ps3
2011-08-17T16:25:21 < Steffanx> and more
2011-08-17T16:25:44 < Steffanx> I thought you didn't game that much
2011-08-17T16:25:51 < Steffanx> The ps3 from you 'buddy'? :)
2011-08-17T16:25:55 < dekar__> yeah
2011-08-17T16:26:03 < dekar__> I'll just install linux :)
2011-08-17T16:26:05 < Steffanx> You'll keep it?
2011-08-17T16:26:14 < dekar__> he refuses to take it back
2011-08-17T16:26:20 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-17T16:26:22 < dekar__> told me he'd make 20k€ in one evening
2011-08-17T16:26:30 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-17T16:26:30 < dekar__> so who am I to complain?
2011-08-17T16:26:51 < dekar__> I guess I'll ask for a car next :P
2011-08-17T16:26:52 < dekar__> jk
2011-08-17T16:27:01 < Steffanx> 20k.. or he is in drugs business or sex business :P
2011-08-17T16:27:03 -!- dekar__ is now known as dekar
2011-08-17T16:27:04 < Steffanx> Both of them suck
2011-08-17T16:27:23 < dekar> anyway - AVR - yay :D
2011-08-17T16:27:43 < dekar> now I'll be able to try the arduino IDE :P
2011-08-17T16:29:01 < Steffanx> Uhm
2011-08-17T16:29:27 < dekar> gotta order some of those as well: 500 mA CMOS LDO,3.3V,MCP1825S-3302E/DB
2011-08-17T16:29:49 < dekar> so yay for low dropout voltage regulators
2011-08-17T16:29:51 < Steffanx> You need 500mA?
2011-08-17T16:29:53 < dekar> never used any so far
2011-08-17T16:30:03 < Steffanx> I've only used 250mA so far
2011-08-17T16:30:10 < Steffanx> mcp1703
2011-08-17T16:30:16 < dekar> dunno, I thought 500mA should be enough for the foreseeable future
2011-08-17T16:30:25 < Steffanx> The pcb you've seen has 1703 :)
2011-08-17T16:30:43 < dekar> nice, so I didn't pick some weird component :D
2011-08-17T16:31:56 < dekar> they're just around an euro and I have to buy 5 of them anyway (minimum quantity)
2011-08-17T16:32:30 < dekar> those things just waste the excess power right?
2011-08-17T16:33:09 < dekar> so if I feed them with 5v and draw 3,3v/500ma it will waste 1,7v/500ma?
2011-08-17T16:33:42 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-17T16:33:44 < dekar> 0,85 watts of heat?
2011-08-17T16:33:47 < dekar> :/
2011-08-17T16:34:16 < dekar> are proper DC/DC converters too expensive?
2011-08-17T16:34:31 < Steffanx> You probably want a switching convertor when you don't want that
2011-08-17T16:34:35 < Steffanx> Nah, more expensive
2011-08-17T16:34:41 < dekar> how much?
2011-08-17T16:34:54 < Steffanx> Dunno, never used them :)
2011-08-17T16:35:09 < dekar> more complex to implement as well I'd guess
2011-08-17T16:35:14 < Steffanx> Sometimes
2011-08-17T16:35:22 < Steffanx> Some of them need external components
2011-08-17T16:50:47 < dekar> what else do I wanna order?
2011-08-17T16:51:08 < dekar> shipping is 10€ and I only order stuff for like 30€
2011-08-17T16:51:12 < dekar> need to order more
2011-08-17T16:51:17 < dekar> MOAR!
2011-08-17T16:51:28 < Steffanx> Where do you order?
2011-08-17T16:51:54 < dekar> mercateo.de
2011-08-17T16:52:04 < dekar> some business to business marketplace
2011-08-17T16:52:30 < dekar> already ordering 200m litz wire - what else could I possibly need? :)
2011-08-17T16:52:36 < Steffanx> Exxxpensive :P
2011-08-17T16:53:05 < dekar> I need some litz wire
2011-08-17T16:53:18 < dekar> we only have half a coil left
2011-08-17T16:53:21 < dekar> like 10m maybe
2011-08-17T16:53:42 < Steffanx> 10m :P
2011-08-17T16:54:03 < dekar> I need a ton for the ps3
2011-08-17T16:54:29 < dekar> last time I did the xbox 360 I used like 15m I think
2011-08-17T16:55:36 < dekar> Steffanx, http://consolecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/NORway3.jpg
2011-08-17T16:56:02 < Steffanx> What's that?
2011-08-17T16:56:07 < Steffanx> Ah, wires
2011-08-17T16:56:11 < dekar> yeah
2011-08-17T16:56:11 < Steffanx> WTF why?!
2011-08-17T16:56:19 < dekar> the nor flash has that many address pins
2011-08-17T16:56:22 < Steffanx> And 15m .. WTF
2011-08-17T16:56:47 < Steffanx> nvm :P
2011-08-17T16:56:55 < Steffanx> I confused with something else
2011-08-17T16:57:33 < dekar> at least the ps3 is easier to solder
2011-08-17T16:57:38 < Steffanx> I confused it with http://www.techni-tool.com/static-products/chemtronics/Chemtronics%20Soder-Wick%20Desoldering%20Braid.html
2011-08-17T16:57:46 < Steffanx> We, here in NL, call that also 'litze'
2011-08-17T16:58:24 < dekar> yeah, same here in germany
2011-08-17T16:58:33 < dekar> Entlötlitze
2011-08-17T16:58:48 < dekar> I got enough of that though XD
2011-08-17T16:58:54 < dekar> surely wouldn't use 200m
2011-08-17T16:58:55 < dekar> XD
2011-08-17T16:59:06 < Steffanx> It's expensive
2011-08-17T16:59:11 < Steffanx> (and smells weird )
2011-08-17T17:01:26 < dekar> we also have some wire left which isn't litz (just one big wire, not many small inside), but I hate that
2011-08-17T17:02:18 < dekar> it's harder to solder, doesn't stick to the solder as good and by far isn't as flexible
2011-08-17T17:23:12 < Vaati_> aww yeeeaaahhhh
2011-08-17T17:23:24 < Vaati_> i figured out how to get my libs to compile
2011-08-17T17:23:42  * Vaati_ sniggers at his own stupidity
2011-08-17T17:24:58 < Steffanx> Please, don't say the other rf module is also broken
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2011-08-17T21:59:11 < Steffanx> Finally
2011-08-17T21:59:19 < Steffanx> Everything works
--- Day changed Thu Aug 18 2011
2011-08-18T00:27:24 < dekar> Steffanx, congratulations!
2011-08-18T00:27:42 < Steffanx> Yeah, it took a while
2011-08-18T00:28:09 < Steffanx> No I have to sort of wait for a board so i can finish the receiver part
2011-08-18T00:28:14 < Steffanx> With a usb avr :)
2011-08-18T00:30:39 < dekar> usb ftw :)
2011-08-18T00:31:18 < Steffanx> I was to lazy to make the usb/avr part my self, so i'll use a pre-made module
2011-08-18T00:31:24 < Steffanx> Similar to that teensy
2011-08-18T00:56:45 < dekar> are those avr 32bit?
2011-08-18T00:58:49 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-18T00:58:51 < Steffanx> 8
2011-08-18T00:59:07 < Steffanx> If you want to go quick, download lufa
2011-08-18T00:59:09 < Steffanx> LUFA
2011-08-18T00:59:19 < Steffanx> ( http://code.google.com/p/lufa-lib/ )
2011-08-18T01:01:04 < Steffanx> You buy it and you don't know it's 8bit dekar ? :)
2011-08-18T01:02:47 < dekar> Steffanx, why would I care? I want to solder it onto my ps3 :D
2011-08-18T01:03:02 < Steffanx> psgroove?
2011-08-18T01:03:05 < dekar> I don't mind 8bit anyway, I can use chars all day
2011-08-18T01:03:14 < dekar> Steffanx, no I have to flash my NOR
2011-08-18T01:03:27 < dekar> USB exploit isn't possible for mine
2011-08-18T01:03:41 < dekar> that's why I have to solder like 30 pins
2011-08-18T01:03:51 < dekar> NOR flash has sooo many address pins
2011-08-18T01:03:54 < Steffanx> psgroove doesn't work anymore?
2011-08-18T01:04:08 < dekar> Steffanx, nope
2011-08-18T01:04:20 < dekar> Steffanx, all fixed, they even got the security up again
2011-08-18T01:04:41 < dekar> Steffanx, there is some hard way to downgrade - I am going that way
2011-08-18T01:08:16 < dekar> Steffanx, I guess all the buzz about the private key being broken etc was exaggerated
2011-08-18T01:08:40 < dekar> they have several chips left that aren't broken - ones involved in the boot process
2011-08-18T01:08:45 < Steffanx> i don't know the details
2011-08-18T01:08:52 < dekar> so they just replaced the keys they used
2011-08-18T01:08:58 < Steffanx> I only know psgroove because all usb avrs were sold out
2011-08-18T01:09:01 < dekar> and whitelisted all prior games using some whitelist
2011-08-18T01:09:18 < dekar> they totally did it like I would have done it
2011-08-18T01:10:03 < dekar> so old games only run when the hash check passes
2011-08-18T01:10:13 < dekar> you can't run any homebrew anymore etc
2011-08-18T01:10:35 < dekar> when I got the ps3 I also thought it was completely broken
2011-08-18T01:20:24 < Steffanx> Have a good night
2011-08-18T01:20:28 < dekar> night
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2011-08-18T04:26:28 < Vaati_> hmm  I think im gonna make an stm32vl discovery mp3 player
2011-08-18T04:26:31 < Vaati_> or wav player
2011-08-18T04:26:35 < Vaati_> probably wav first
2011-08-18T04:27:28 < Vaati_> once I finish that, I will declare myself proficient in stm32 coding and move on to an fpga music player
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2011-08-18T18:18:48 < Steffanx> Hmm, why so many Europeans here?
2011-08-18T18:19:28 < Steffanx> Is there even someone not from europe here?
2011-08-18T18:27:36  * izua sets mode -b *!*@*.us
2011-08-18T18:30:00 < Steffanx> LO
2011-08-18T18:30:02 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-18T18:31:11 < jpa-> It is still unknown if there exists intelligent life outside of europe.
2011-08-18T18:32:11 <+izua> but alas, no idea
2011-08-18T18:32:21 <+izua> probably because stm32 is from china
2011-08-18T18:32:48 <+izua> and they fear if they use chinese technology, the chinese will exploit their missles' and tanks' electronics
2011-08-18T18:33:56 < jpa-> i wonder if anyone has developed a successful processor-level backdoor
2011-08-18T18:34:41 <+izua> i don't think such a backdoor will be open to the public
2011-08-18T18:34:50 <+izua> i'm thinking more of an analog backdoor
2011-08-18T18:35:19 < jpa-> what is that?
2011-08-18T18:35:20 <+izua> for example, having the reset line being pulled low when a specific frequency and modulation scheme is detected
2011-08-18T18:35:26 < jpa-> yeah
2011-08-18T18:36:03 <+izua> or idk, probably a complete flash erase woul be nice too
2011-08-18T18:36:43 < jpa-> maybe you could actually build a spread spectrum receiver on-chip
2011-08-18T18:37:19 <+izua> most likely
2011-08-18T18:37:22 < jpa-> just need sensitive opamps for amplifying the signal from a tiny antenna, and a shift register thingy monitoring for a correct coded sequence
2011-08-18T18:37:25 <+izua> since gps receivers are the size of a fingernail, etc
2011-08-18T18:37:47 < jpa-> reception inside metal chassis could be a problem
2011-08-18T18:37:50 <+izua> there are some very small 'canned' antennas
2011-08-18T18:38:14 <+izua> which are very very sensible to frequency drift, so they would only work for a given channel (or maybe even subchannel)
2011-08-18T18:38:32 <+izua> but yeah, if it's completely isolated, hard chance
2011-08-18T18:38:46 <+izua> however, missiles and tanks aren't, because they also need comms.
2011-08-18T18:41:54 <+izua> hm yeah
2011-08-18T18:41:56 <+izua> http://izua.ro/b/useless/IMG_20110817_181320.jpg
2011-08-18T18:42:12 <+izua> so i finally got the orbital welder do an actual welding test
2011-08-18T18:43:09 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-18T18:43:36 < Vaati_> wait what, are you offending my uneducated american peers ?
2011-08-18T18:56:14 < dekar_> izua, Steffanx http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/IMG_20110818_175149.jpg
2011-08-18T18:56:32 < dekar_> the other one was already taken
2011-08-18T18:56:51 <+izua> neat
2011-08-18T18:57:03 <+izua> does it have any raw io stuff?
2011-08-18T18:57:14 < dekar_> my co-workers told me so
2011-08-18T18:57:41 < dekar_> I wonder whether I can replace my atom system with the panda board
2011-08-18T18:57:49 < dekar_> it lacks SATA though :/
2011-08-18T18:57:54 < dekar_> only SD and USB
2011-08-18T18:58:02 < dekar_> oh and ethernet
2011-08-18T18:58:09 <+izua> http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7642
2011-08-18T18:58:23 <+izua> isn't that big 8p8c connector an ethernet connector?
2011-08-18T18:58:27 <+izua> on top of the usb ports
2011-08-18T18:58:58 < dekar_> yeah it has ethernet - kinda
2011-08-18T18:59:06 < dekar_> it has an USB to ethernet chip
2011-08-18T18:59:17 < dekar_> so it's actually connected via USB
2011-08-18T18:59:22 < dekar_> it also has wifi/bluetooth
2011-08-18T18:59:28 <+izua> oh lol, that's slow
2011-08-18T18:59:43 < dekar_> you consider 480mbit/s slow?
2011-08-18T19:00:14 <+izua> well, ethernet is 1000mbit/s
2011-08-18T19:00:16 < dekar_> but I agree, it lacks some serious throughput
2011-08-18T19:00:27 <+izua> plus probably protocol overhead :P
2011-08-18T19:00:28 <+izua> but ikd
2011-08-18T19:00:33 <+izua> just trolling, etc
2011-08-18T19:00:36 < dekar_> my atom has sata and gbit ethernet
2011-08-18T19:00:54 <+izua> i have a nice atom board too, 2xgbit ethernet, sata
2011-08-18T19:00:56 < dekar_> dunno what to do with it :/
2011-08-18T19:01:03 <+izua> i don't think anny recent hardware doesn't have sata though
2011-08-18T19:01:22 <+izua> dekar_: what do you think of the libopenstm32 licensing scheme
2011-08-18T19:01:29 < dekar_> GPL?
2011-08-18T19:01:33 <+izua> v3 too
2011-08-18T19:01:37 < dekar_> I hate GPL
2011-08-18T19:01:42 <+izua> eh
2011-08-18T19:01:44 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-18T19:01:51 <+izua> they're just wrappers around registers
2011-08-18T19:01:59 <+izua> not a real 'library' imo
2011-08-18T19:02:14 <+izua> but i like their approach better, instead of using structs and shizzle to do inits
2011-08-18T19:02:21 < dekar_> didn't use them for anything but blinky LEDs
2011-08-18T19:02:29 <+izua> lol neat
2011-08-18T19:02:37 < jpa-> the gpl is a bit stupid for such low-level library
2011-08-18T19:02:45 <+izua> exactly my point
2011-08-18T19:03:01 <+izua> probably the usb part is more involved, with isr setting and such
2011-08-18T19:03:10 < jpa-> just like the extraordinary bloat of cmsis is stupid for such a low-level library
2011-08-18T19:03:32 <+izua> uh
2011-08-18T19:03:36 <+izua> i never understood this
2011-08-18T19:03:54 <+izua> isn't cmsis a set of libs to make crosscompiling over different arm-based mcus simpler?
2011-08-18T19:04:10 <+izua> or is it the library doing hardware stuff ?
2011-08-18T19:04:12 < jpa-> supposed to be, but doesn't actually succeed very well AFAIK
2011-08-18T19:04:26 <+izua> so you can access a timer the same way on a stm32, avr32, or lpc21xx
2011-08-18T19:04:33 < dekar_> never looked into CMSIS
2011-08-18T19:04:39  * jpa- prefers bare-iron
2011-08-18T19:04:45 <+izua> last one would be neat, but probably very limiting
2011-08-18T19:04:55 <+izua> ftw!
2011-08-18T19:04:56 < dekar_> I started liking the ST libs
2011-08-18T19:05:03 <+izua> os-es are for pansy asses
2011-08-18T19:05:14 <+izua> right now i'm ircing from telnet from dos
2011-08-18T19:05:19 < dekar_> I like OSes :D
2011-08-18T19:05:26 < jpa-> well i like freertos :P
2011-08-18T19:05:37 < dekar_> from dos? your does has a tcp stack?
2011-08-18T19:05:43 < dekar_> and networking drivers?
2011-08-18T19:05:52 < dekar_> besides telnet sucks
2011-08-18T19:06:09  * izua also messed with it a bit from a pic18 iirc
2011-08-18T19:06:26 <+izua> yes yes
2011-08-18T19:06:36 <+izua> it has several stacks!
2011-08-18T19:06:53 < dekar_> izua, why would you use dos anyway?
2011-08-18T19:07:02 < dekar_> sounds like a useless exercise to me
2011-08-18T19:07:02 <+izua> http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7643
2011-08-18T19:07:09 <+izua> http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7642
2011-08-18T19:07:12 <+izua> i'm not dude, lol
2011-08-18T19:07:18 <+izua> j/k etc
2011-08-18T19:07:27 < dekar_> :/
2011-08-18T19:07:42 <+izua> but os-es seem pointless on embedded stuff
2011-08-18T19:07:54 < dekar_> why?
2011-08-18T19:08:14 < dekar_> I think I'll try linux on stm32 some day
2011-08-18T19:08:18 <+izua> because if you need one, you're better off buying an intel board with a parallel port
2011-08-18T19:08:43 < jpa-> wow, izua is not a dude?
2011-08-18T19:08:46 < dekar_> there is no debian for thumb2 yet :/
2011-08-18T19:08:55 <+izua> dekar_: eeeeek
2011-08-18T19:08:59 <+izua> TRY GENTOO
2011-08-18T19:09:07 < dekar_> FU
2011-08-18T19:09:08 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T19:09:11 <+izua> bwahahahah
2011-08-18T19:09:11 < dekar_> lol
2011-08-18T19:09:24 <+izua> jpa-: i'm male.
2011-08-18T19:09:38 <+izua> http://izua.ro/b/useless/1275104551535.jpg
2011-08-18T19:09:42 < dekar_> how many years would a STM32 with 4mb SRAM take to compile KDE?
2011-08-18T19:10:00 <+izua> would it actually run kde? o_O
2011-08-18T19:10:04 < dekar_> sure
2011-08-18T19:10:15 < dekar_> hey once I get my ps3 hacked I can use it to cross compile for stm32
2011-08-18T19:10:21 <+izua> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121444
2011-08-18T19:10:23 < jpa-> it wouldn't compile it, atleast not with gcc
2011-08-18T19:10:24 < dekar_> it has like 7 cores
2011-08-18T19:10:33 <+izua> this is such a board i was talking about
2011-08-18T19:10:33 < jpa-> because it doesn't have virtual memory
2011-08-18T19:10:54 < dekar_> I guess
2011-08-18T19:11:00 < dekar_> need MOAR SRAM then
2011-08-18T19:11:03 <+izua> you get io with the parallel port, you can easily extend it with shift registers, it can do rather high speed stuff too
2011-08-18T19:11:36 < dekar_> I already got a frickin atom
2011-08-18T19:11:54 < jpa-> izua: but you don't get realtime guarantees
2011-08-18T19:12:10 < dekar_> jpa-, why wouldn't you?
2011-08-18T19:12:24 <+izua> uh, there are some kernel drivers for windows that can do that
2011-08-18T19:12:36 <+izua> esp in the cnc/milling software deal
2011-08-18T19:12:51 <+izua> so if windows can do that.. it's probably easier in linux!
2011-08-18T19:12:59 < jpa-> ok, well, you get some
2011-08-18T19:13:40 < dekar_> izua, windows CE is a realtime OS
2011-08-18T19:13:40 <+izua> you can offload your real time signal generation signal to a mcu, and control it over a serial link, for instance
2011-08-18T19:13:47 < dekar_> so windows should work fine
2011-08-18T19:14:00 <+izua> probably
2011-08-18T19:14:07 <+izua> i'm just considering the dev time/cost investment here
2011-08-18T19:14:21 < dekar_> you can't buy winCE licenses anyway
2011-08-18T19:14:43 < dekar_> I don't think they'd sell you a single one
2011-08-18T19:14:55 <+izua> ah lol
2011-08-18T19:15:07 <+izua> reactOS, CE version!
2011-08-18T19:15:13 < dekar_> :/
2011-08-18T19:15:21 <+izua> man
2011-08-18T19:15:26 < dekar_> hey I told you about that vending machine right?
2011-08-18T19:15:28 <+izua> reactOS looks worse than win95
2011-08-18T19:15:29 < dekar_> gearomat?
2011-08-18T19:15:31 <+izua> yep!
2011-08-18T19:15:38 < dekar_> did I tell you we founded a company for that?
2011-08-18T19:15:39 <+izua> upgrading it with a panda + ftdi?
2011-08-18T19:15:42 <+izua> i think so
2011-08-18T19:15:49 < dekar_> they are buying sooo much crap
2011-08-18T19:15:57 <+izua> does it include neat chicks sitting around the gearomats?
2011-08-18T19:15:59 < dekar_> tons of expensive displays they fail to interface
2011-08-18T19:16:06 < dekar_> nope, just guys
2011-08-18T19:16:07 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-18T19:16:09 <+izua> ew
2011-08-18T19:16:21 <+izua> i saw chicks posing in those pictures
2011-08-18T19:16:22 < dekar_> atom boards lately - since they gave up on panda
2011-08-18T19:16:26 < dekar_> I know
2011-08-18T19:16:29 <+izua> uh
2011-08-18T19:16:35 <+izua> there are some vga compatible flatpanels
2011-08-18T19:16:39 <+izua> i mean, bare flatpanels
2011-08-18T19:16:54 <+izua> worse case scenarios, buy a small lcd, remove the lcd panel
2011-08-18T19:17:02 <+izua> use a different light source to fit inside the gearomat
2011-08-18T19:17:09 <+izua> you can make DIY projects that way!
2011-08-18T19:17:12 < dekar_> they got this one LCD panel
2011-08-18T19:17:13 <+izua> projectors*
2011-08-18T19:17:19 < dekar_> from newheavendisplays I think
2011-08-18T19:17:39 < dekar_> it has some touch foil
2011-08-18T19:17:51 < Steffanx> Give me that board dekar_
2011-08-18T19:17:52 < dekar_> and some chip to go from bare metal display to lvds
2011-08-18T19:17:58 < dekar_> and they fail to do the lvds XD
2011-08-18T19:18:14 < dekar_> I gave them my logic analyzer and we found out their soldering fails
2011-08-18T19:18:52 < dekar_> so they'll buy new displays
2011-08-18T19:18:55 < dekar_> such a waste
2011-08-18T19:18:56 < dekar_> :/
2011-08-18T19:19:23 < dekar_> they also order stuff from the US all the time
2011-08-18T19:19:28 < dekar_> like connectors etc
2011-08-18T19:19:39 < dekar_> paying like 40€ shipping for 5€ products
2011-08-18T19:20:03 < dekar_> Steffanx, what do you offer in exchange?
2011-08-18T19:20:21 < dekar_> Steffanx, if you do the PCB stuff for me I might consider sending you the panda
2011-08-18T19:20:24 < Steffanx> Time will tell :P
2011-08-18T19:21:06 < dekar_> The guy who started working on the schematics still hasn't finished them
2011-08-18T19:21:20 < dekar_> and after that we'll outsource the layouting and routing as well
2011-08-18T19:21:38 < Steffanx> "the pcb stuff" ?
2011-08-18T19:21:42 < dekar_> well at least the company makes some profit
2011-08-18T19:21:46 < dekar_> flexBox2 pcb
2011-08-18T19:21:54 < dekar_> I told you about that before I think
2011-08-18T19:22:01 < dekar_> when I showed you that pic of the PCB
2011-08-18T19:22:14 < Steffanx> Yeah, i think so
2011-08-18T19:23:00 < dekar_> it's funny since money surely isn't the problem in our case
2011-08-18T19:23:14 < dekar_> it's just that people don't get it done somehow
2011-08-18T19:23:39 <+izua> dekar_: just show him a pic of the schematic :P
2011-08-18T19:24:01 < dekar_> izua, what's the problem with the schematic?
2011-08-18T19:24:12 <+izua> well, none really
2011-08-18T19:24:23 <+izua> it's neat, tidy, perfectly documented, etc :P
2011-08-18T19:24:33 < dekar_> totally
2011-08-18T19:24:41 < dekar_> I even got a partlist
2011-08-18T19:24:47 < dekar_> don't see the problem
2011-08-18T19:25:08 < dekar_> just have a look at the ftdi datasheet and see what goes where
2011-08-18T19:25:15 <+izua> yeah hehe
2011-08-18T19:25:18 <+izua> that's kind of the problem
2011-08-18T19:25:35 <+izua> i tried isolating lines too in eagle
2011-08-18T19:25:43 <+izua> so each signal would get its neat space etc
2011-08-18T19:26:09 <+izua> ended up breaking other signals so meh
2011-08-18T19:26:21 < dekar_> dunno what you mean
2011-08-18T19:26:27 <+izua> it can be done, with enough time, i guess :P
2011-08-18T19:26:32 < dekar_> I used the schematics to hack the board several times
2011-08-18T19:26:35 <+izua> the layout right now is a mess
2011-08-18T19:26:37 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T19:26:45 < dekar_> you could completely redo it of you like
2011-08-18T19:26:49 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T19:26:50 < dekar_> w/e
2011-08-18T19:26:51 < dekar_> :/
2011-08-18T19:26:54 < dekar_> gtg
2011-08-18T19:26:54 <+izua> that's what i wanted to do later
2011-08-18T19:26:56 < dekar_> I am fucked up
2011-08-18T19:27:01 <+izua> but it's still a pain to trace every signal
2011-08-18T19:27:02 < dekar_> those laptop guys are so annoying
2011-08-18T19:27:06 <+izua> haha
2011-08-18T19:27:07 < Steffanx> ?
2011-08-18T19:27:08 <+izua> enjoy :p
2011-08-18T19:27:10 < dekar_> still didn't send replacement
2011-08-18T19:27:17 < Steffanx> Replacement for what?
2011-08-18T19:27:21 <+izua> your lenovo broke? :o
2011-08-18T19:27:23 < dekar_> my laptop broke
2011-08-18T19:27:26 < Steffanx> Haha
2011-08-18T19:27:27 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-18T19:27:29 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T19:27:29 < dekar_> 2 weeks ago
2011-08-18T19:27:32 < dekar_> the display broke
2011-08-18T19:27:36 <+izua> karma is a bitch
2011-08-18T19:27:36 < dekar_> while closing the lid
2011-08-18T19:27:41 < Steffanx> What did you do?
2011-08-18T19:27:43 <+izua> oh lol
2011-08-18T19:27:44 <+izua> horrible
2011-08-18T19:27:45 < dekar_> they glued it and it broke again
2011-08-18T19:27:49 <+izua> ROFL
2011-08-18T19:27:49 < dekar_> close the lid
2011-08-18T19:27:55 <+izua> the display enclosure?
2011-08-18T19:27:58 <+izua> or the actual lcd panel?
2011-08-18T19:27:59 < Steffanx> Lenovo.. quality product :)
2011-08-18T19:28:01 < dekar_> my lenovo display backside is made of two parts
2011-08-18T19:28:08 < dekar_> metal and plastic
2011-08-18T19:28:23 < dekar_> the connecting broke
2011-08-18T19:28:29 < Steffanx> Aluminium FTW
2011-08-18T19:28:42 < dekar_> http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X220-06-600x450-580x435.jpg
2011-08-18T19:28:45 <+izua> aluminium is heavy dude :P
2011-08-18T19:28:50 < dekar_> the thin line at the top of the display backside
2011-08-18T19:28:52 <+izua> carbon fiber!
2011-08-18T19:28:56 < dekar_> the upper part is plastic
2011-08-18T19:28:58 < dekar_> and broke off
2011-08-18T19:29:07 <+izua> got it
2011-08-18T19:29:10 <+izua> still horrible :/
2011-08-18T19:29:11 < dekar_> not bad actually, some plastic clip inside broke
2011-08-18T19:29:13 < Steffanx> Mine is from aluminum and not heavy at all :)
2011-08-18T19:29:19 <+izua> that's bad engineering i guess
2011-08-18T19:29:19 < dekar_> it was still on it - just loose a bit
2011-08-18T19:29:20 < Steffanx> Me old laptop is heavier
2011-08-18T19:29:32 < Steffanx> *my
2011-08-18T19:29:37 < dekar_> if they keep annoying me I'll get that macbook again
2011-08-18T19:29:38 <+izua> Steffanx: uh, i mean, compared to an identical one made of plastic
2011-08-18T19:29:41 < dekar_> really liked the hw
2011-08-18T19:29:44 < dekar_> anyway
2011-08-18T19:29:44 < dekar_> gtg
2011-08-18T19:29:46 < dekar_> bbl
2011-08-18T19:29:48 <+izua> get a toughbook
2011-08-18T19:29:53 < dekar_> fu
2011-08-18T19:29:55 < Steffanx> Alienware?!
2011-08-18T19:29:57 <+izua> toughbooks are cool
2011-08-18T19:30:02 <+izua> they might have sucky hardware
2011-08-18T19:30:11 <+izua> but you can run a firetruck over them
2011-08-18T19:30:16 < dekar_> a co worker got alien
2011-08-18T19:30:20 < dekar_> randomly crashes
2011-08-18T19:30:21 < dekar_> a lot
2011-08-18T19:30:29 < dekar_> hdd connection randomly fails
2011-08-18T19:30:40 < Steffanx> That can happen with any laptop
2011-08-18T19:30:44 < Steffanx> And dekar_ is computer addicted :P
2011-08-18T19:31:41 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-18T19:31:50 <+izua> wiki says toughbooks also served as bulletproof vests
2011-08-18T19:31:56 <+izua> doesn't specify if they survived
2011-08-18T19:32:05 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-18T19:34:19 <+izua> http://themetapicture.com/growing-a-pair/
2011-08-18T19:34:47 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@95.143.165.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2011-08-18T19:35:50 < Steffanx> LUFA really makes USB tooo easy :(
2011-08-18T19:36:10 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T19:36:55 < Steffanx> A few lines of code and i have the device that send the received data from the rf module over usb to my pc
2011-08-18T19:38:03 < Steffanx> CDC though, i don't want to mess with libusb
2011-08-18T19:39:00 < Steffanx> It's a nice module, it can be configured to do most of the tasks
2011-08-18T19:39:19 < Steffanx> Premble detection, CRC etc.
2011-08-18T19:40:19 < Steffanx> And you can use a 'header' to listen to the packages with the right address only
2011-08-18T19:40:48 < Steffanx> *listen = handle
2011-08-18T19:42:20 <+izua> http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/David_Thorne_Complaints.htm
2011-08-18T19:42:36 <+izua> the radio module?
2011-08-18T19:42:44 <+izua> hmm, neat, if it can do preamble and addressing
2011-08-18T19:42:46 < Steffanx> Yes, the radio module
2011-08-18T19:42:48 < Steffanx> rfm22b
2011-08-18T19:42:51 <+izua> how does it behave when there's no carrier around
2011-08-18T19:43:02 <+izua> if you send one packet say, every 10 seconds
2011-08-18T19:43:09 <+izua> what happens when there's no data
2011-08-18T19:43:13 < Steffanx> It can send with 20 dBm
2011-08-18T19:43:19 < Steffanx> That's not allowed here in NL though :(
2011-08-18T19:43:21 <+izua> at the receiver side, i mean
2011-08-18T19:43:34 <+izua> i have rfm12b and rfm10b iirc
2011-08-18T19:43:39 <+izua> one is a txer, the other is a rxer
2011-08-18T19:43:49 <+izua> (22b are transceivers, iirc)
2011-08-18T19:43:52 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-18T19:44:05 <+izua> but they suck hard because when there's no carrier/tx activity, the receiver sometimes output garbage
2011-08-18T19:44:16 < Steffanx> I've no experience with that
2011-08-18T19:44:19 <+izua> because you know.. you should use a squelch or something.. and only output data when there's the squelch on ._.
2011-08-18T19:44:25 < Steffanx> I send data every 2 sec and it received it all
2011-08-18T19:44:51 < Steffanx> It's that where the preamble stuff is used for?
2011-08-18T19:44:55 <+izua> can you please try this for me: send it slower, say every 10-15 secs, and notice if you get any garbage in between
2011-08-18T19:45:18 < Steffanx> I don't see the garbage, because the crc will be wrong
2011-08-18T19:45:26 < Steffanx> I enable automatic packet handle
2011-08-18T19:45:26 <+izua> oh, hm, right.
2011-08-18T19:45:27 < Steffanx> ing
2011-08-18T19:45:33 < Steffanx> I'll try it anyway
2011-08-18T19:45:39 < Steffanx> The led should blink every 10 sec
2011-08-18T19:45:41 <+izua> try it without the crc on?
2011-08-18T19:45:46 <+izua> ah lol, you have a led?
2011-08-18T19:45:51 < Steffanx> Ofcourse :)
2011-08-18T19:45:54 <+izua> i was thinking more like, actual data :)
2011-08-18T19:46:10 < Steffanx> When the crc is wrong it won't return any data afaik
2011-08-18T19:46:24 < Steffanx> Yeah, it data too, but I only blink a led to see if it works
2011-08-18T19:46:40 < Steffanx> It gets annoying when you have to reconnect all the time
2011-08-18T19:47:05 < Steffanx> Reconnect with minicom
2011-08-18T19:48:17 <+izua> heh
2011-08-18T19:48:22 <+izua> use a usart or a ft232 chip :P
2011-08-18T19:48:27 <+izua> so it won't have to reenumerate
2011-08-18T19:48:56 <+izua> http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Y_U_No_Drunk.htm
2011-08-18T19:48:59 < Steffanx> It seems to work
2011-08-18T19:49:15 <+izua> with the crc disabled?
2011-08-18T19:49:15 <+izua> neat
2011-08-18T19:49:21 <+izua> so they do have a squelch then ._.
2011-08-18T19:49:22 < Steffanx> enabled :P
2011-08-18T19:49:40 <+izua> ah
2011-08-18T19:49:49 < Steffanx> It works with crc enabled, so it probably also works with disabled
2011-08-18T19:50:00 <+izua> well, do try it :P
2011-08-18T19:50:28 <+izua> i'm curious if the receiver will latch to noise and interpret that as packets
2011-08-18T19:50:37 <+izua> or there is actually a way to control that
2011-08-18T19:50:46 < Steffanx> Nah, it won't
2011-08-18T19:50:55 < Steffanx> It also does preamble detection and
2011-08-18T19:50:59 < Steffanx> ..
2011-08-18T19:51:21 <+izua> preambles are used so you'd have a stronger signal in case you're locked onto noise
2011-08-18T19:51:26 < Steffanx> And sync words
2011-08-18T19:51:33 <+izua> but without transmitting meaningful data :P
2011-08-18T19:52:28 <+izua> rf stuff is pretty neat
2011-08-18T19:52:33 <+izua> once you get the hang of all the math behind it
2011-08-18T19:52:49 < Steffanx> So it probably won't receive the garbage unless the 2 sync words are correct
2011-08-18T19:52:58 <+izua> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK
2011-08-18T19:53:05 < Steffanx> It will receive it ofcourse, but won't handle the data
2011-08-18T19:53:13 <+izua> ^ there were two hams messing with this, one from australia, one from france iirc
2011-08-18T19:53:27 <+izua> and they used like 5W ERP ._.
2011-08-18T19:53:52 < Steffanx> 5W..
2011-08-18T19:53:58 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T19:54:07 <+izua> it has an incredible noise immunity
2011-08-18T19:54:18 < Steffanx> My brother is messing with his CB @ 35W (max. ) :)
2011-08-18T19:54:30 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-18T19:54:40 < Steffanx> My macbook is also a CB receiver
2011-08-18T19:55:03 <+izua> neat?
2011-08-18T19:55:06 < Steffanx> I can here what he says on a certain channel
2011-08-18T19:55:12 < Steffanx> And that's NOT neat
2011-08-18T19:55:15 <+izua> is it listed as an audio input or something
2011-08-18T19:55:25 <+izua> OH LOL
2011-08-18T19:55:32 <+izua> it's mixed directly from the amp?
2011-08-18T19:55:39 < Steffanx> It's a combination of my headphone + macbook
2011-08-18T19:55:50 <+izua> oh
2011-08-18T19:55:57 <+izua> heh
2011-08-18T19:55:59 < Steffanx> My second screen also shows some nice lines on the screen when he stats to transmit
2011-08-18T19:56:05 < Steffanx> *starts
2011-08-18T19:56:06 <+izua> this is why rf regulations exist :/
2011-08-18T19:56:30 <+izua> failgrounding or probably lossy matching
2011-08-18T19:56:46 <+izua> or a horrible tx, heh
2011-08-18T19:56:53 <+izua> your second screen is a crt though?
2011-08-18T19:57:03 < Steffanx> LCD :P
2011-08-18T20:01:09 <+izua> that shouldn't really happen
2011-08-18T20:01:14 < Steffanx> afaik 35W isn't allowed here
2011-08-18T20:01:19 <+izua> LCD monitors have alu foil for shielding
2011-08-18T20:01:25 <+izua> since they put out a fair amount of RF noise too
2011-08-18T20:01:40 <+izua> try rotating it 90 degrees and 270 degrees when he transmits
2011-08-18T20:01:44 < Steffanx> Shouldn't they also be grounded?
2011-08-18T20:01:44 <+izua> and see if the lines still appear
2011-08-18T20:02:03 <+izua> if it doesn't happen, it's a shielding problem somewhere
2011-08-18T20:02:09 <+izua> technically, yeah.
2011-08-18T20:03:39 < Steffanx> None of my 'wall sockets' have grounding
2011-08-18T20:19:13 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-590c45bc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-18T20:20:11 < dekar_> izua, Steffanx I don't like the size of alienware
2011-08-18T20:20:13 < dekar_> and the battery life
2011-08-18T20:20:15 < dekar_> and the crappy displays
2011-08-18T20:20:17 < dekar_> one of my co-workers has the m11x I think
2011-08-18T20:20:19 < dekar_> core i7 and all the other stuff
2011-08-18T20:20:41 < dekar_> besides I don't need a powerful gpu anyway
2011-08-18T20:57:35 <+izua> god fucking damn it
2011-08-18T20:57:44 <+izua> my sister bought a family camera a while ago, which was decent.
2011-08-18T20:58:18 <+izua> 5MP, no crappy modes, manual focus/aperture/exposure time, all configurable individually, DMC/FZ20 from panasonic
2011-08-18T20:58:26 <+izua> she decided to sell it and get a new one, for the same price
2011-08-18T20:58:35 <+izua> got a coolpix 100 something from nikon
2011-08-18T20:58:37 < Steffanx> lolol
2011-08-18T20:58:44 <+izua> it CAN'T DO MANUAL ANYTHING
2011-08-18T20:58:48 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-18T20:58:50 <+izua> not even with software compensation for the other
2011-08-18T20:58:56 < Vaati_> epic fail
2011-08-18T20:58:58 <+izua> and it autofails on iso control too
2011-08-18T20:59:02 <+izua> i can't even control the iso >.>
2011-08-18T20:59:13 <+izua> it does it 'depending on the scene'
2011-08-18T20:59:43 < Vaati_> I got a GE 16.1 MP camera -- its pretty darn epic, but it has too many modes (even a hand-drawn mode -- sorta dumb)
2011-08-18T20:59:59 <+izua> uh, dunno
2011-08-18T21:00:08 < Vaati_> and the hand drawn mode basically outlines all color sections within a certain range
2011-08-18T21:00:10 <+izua> unless some really speciality stuff, maybe party or beach, which does white balancing
2011-08-18T21:00:10 < Steffanx> You spent !@#$%ˆ&* million euro Vaati_ ?
2011-08-18T21:00:18 <+izua> i really don't need modes
2011-08-18T21:00:20 < Vaati_> lol, Steffanx -- its only like $150
2011-08-18T21:00:27 < Steffanx> What?
2011-08-18T21:00:29 < Vaati_> yeah
2011-08-18T21:00:36 < Steffanx> You're from the US?
2011-08-18T21:00:36 < Vaati_> actually, I believe its $155
2011-08-18T21:00:38 < Vaati_> yes I am
2011-08-18T21:00:38 <+izua> reading through a photography book, or just having a decent meter will be more than enough
2011-08-18T21:00:48 < Steffanx> Hmpf, i thought this was a EU channel only :(
2011-08-18T21:00:50 <+izua> a lot of people say "modes are great because you can do quick shots"
2011-08-18T21:01:02 < dekar_> <izua> my sister bought a family camera (...) - PIC?
2011-08-18T21:01:19 <+izua> but i've seen people fiddle with modes longer than it takes one to set aperture/exposure/focus
2011-08-18T21:01:25 < Steffanx> A picture of his sister dekar_ ? :P
2011-08-18T21:01:30 < dekar_> sure :)
2011-08-18T21:01:31 <+izua> google nikon coolpix 100
2011-08-18T21:01:31 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-18T21:01:35 <+izua> etc
2011-08-18T21:01:39 <+izua> otherwise start a /b/ thread
2011-08-18T21:01:41 < Steffanx> I want to say something, but izua probably won't like that :P
2011-08-18T21:01:47 < Steffanx> So i dont
2011-08-18T21:01:56  * izua sets mode +o izua
2011-08-18T21:01:59 < dekar_> say it :D
2011-08-18T21:01:59 <+izua> Steffanx: go ooon
2011-08-18T21:02:09 < Steffanx> It was camgirl related etc. :P
2011-08-18T21:02:14 < dekar_> ;)
2011-08-18T21:02:22 <+izua> yeah that was rather hard to figure out too :P
2011-08-18T21:02:27 < dekar_> URL? :P
2011-08-18T21:02:27 <+izua> i'm pissed
2011-08-18T21:02:43 <+izua> and she paid for "ultra high power batteries" as accus
2011-08-18T21:02:48 <+izua> and bought an sdhc card
2011-08-18T21:02:54 <+izua> although the camera only takes sd
2011-08-18T21:03:04 < Steffanx> You're not a good brother izua
2011-08-18T21:03:54 <+izua> i'm not helping her with her shit anymore
2011-08-18T21:03:59 < dekar_> I gave my sis a quad core system - she complained about the fan noise :/
2011-08-18T21:04:08 <+izua> i have to live with 8 birds and 3 dogs
2011-08-18T21:04:27 <+izua> or well.. 2, because one kicked the bucket this morning
2011-08-18T21:04:30 < dekar_> what birds do you have?
2011-08-18T21:05:17 <+izua> not sure of the english names. 2 budgegriars (simple parrots), 2 kakaduus (australian white shit), and the other are doves/coobirds
2011-08-18T21:05:44 < dekar_> doves are boring
2011-08-18T21:05:52 < dekar_> budgies can be quite funny
2011-08-18T21:06:02 < dekar_> and cockatoos - woah I always wanted some
2011-08-18T21:06:03 <+izua> the main problem is that they all start screaming
2011-08-18T21:06:10 <+izua> not singing or anything
2011-08-18T21:06:12 <+izua> literally screaming
2011-08-18T21:06:22 < dekar_> you get other birds if you want them to sing
2011-08-18T21:06:24 <+izua> they do that waaay more than actual singing
2011-08-18T21:06:25 < dekar_> parrots scream
2011-08-18T21:06:29 <+izua> i didn't get them
2011-08-18T21:06:30 <+izua> that's my point
2011-08-18T21:06:39 < dekar_> I like parrots, had many
2011-08-18T21:06:40 <+izua> and she gets all pissy if i close her room, put them in their cages and cover them up
2011-08-18T21:07:06 < dekar_> I had cockatiels and budgies mostly
2011-08-18T21:07:20 < dekar_> some lovebirds as well for a while
2011-08-18T21:07:23 <+izua> they're fun i guess, but not when you try to sleep
2011-08-18T21:07:32 < dekar_> we had a huge house back then
2011-08-18T21:07:38 < dekar_> so that was never a problem
2011-08-18T21:07:39 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-18T21:08:38 <+izua> it's rather annoying
2011-08-18T21:08:48 <+izua> sometimes they start screeching at 3 am or so
2011-08-18T21:08:57 < dekar_> teach them some song :)
2011-08-18T21:09:13 < Steffanx> What did you do with that one dog izua ?
2011-08-18T21:09:21 <+izua> i didn't
2011-08-18T21:09:23 < dekar_> izua, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d81qFaoe010
2011-08-18T21:09:35 < dekar_> I heard they eat dogs in romamia
2011-08-18T21:09:38 <+izua> she collects sick/wounded animals, and has my dad care for them
2011-08-18T21:09:39 < dekar_> *romania
2011-08-18T21:09:43 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T21:09:57 < Steffanx> And your father likes that izua ?
2011-08-18T21:09:58 <+izua> i hear piss/scat porn is common in every marriage in germany
2011-08-18T21:10:03 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-18T21:10:36 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T21:10:39 <+izua> that one looks calm ._.
2011-08-18T21:10:49 <+izua> the ones she has throw themselves through the cage
2011-08-18T21:10:58 <+izua> spit at everybody who gets close to them
2011-08-18T21:11:05 < dekar_> izua, is it that size or bigger? that's a cockatiel, cockatoos are huge
2011-08-18T21:11:07 <+izua> and are rather violent :/
2011-08-18T21:11:31 <+izua> well, the label said cokatoo. i guess it's a cockatiel
2011-08-18T21:12:06 < dekar_> they are kinda aggressive, that's normal :/
2011-08-18T21:12:22 < dekar_> budgies have the better personality
2011-08-18T21:12:49 <+izua> bah
2011-08-18T21:12:50 <+izua> oh god
2011-08-18T21:12:51 < dekar_> they just randomly turn mean
2011-08-18T21:12:55 <+izua> this picture looks horrible ._.
2011-08-18T21:13:02 <+izua> and i took it in my room ._.
2011-08-18T21:13:07 <+izua> with overhead lights on
2011-08-18T21:13:12 < dekar_> you took a pic of your sis?
2011-08-18T21:13:33 < dekar_> link or it didn't happen!
2011-08-18T21:13:35 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T21:13:51 <+izua> even if i would, why would i post it here?
2011-08-18T21:14:05 < Steffanx> dekar_ wants a girlfriend
2011-08-18T21:14:07 <+izua> would have, etc
2011-08-18T21:14:10 < dekar_> right, post it at 4chan :)
2011-08-18T21:14:12 <+izua> yeah, i kinda see that :P
2011-08-18T21:16:43 < dekar_> I don't think I cbf having animals again
2011-08-18T21:16:51 < dekar_> they were fun when I was young
2011-08-18T21:16:51 <+izua> http://izua.ro/b/useless/DSCN0068.JPG
2011-08-18T21:16:54 <+izua> dat noise
2011-08-18T21:17:27 < dekar_> link not working :/
2011-08-18T21:17:37 <+izua> huh
2011-08-18T21:17:43 < dekar_> romanian internet ftl
2011-08-18T21:17:44 <+izua> izua.ath.cx/b/useless/DSCN0068.JPG
2011-08-18T21:18:02 <+izua> except the part where everybody gets 6MBps :P
2011-08-18T21:18:12 <+izua> i think my dns provider is screwing with me
2011-08-18T21:18:17 < dekar_> not working as well for me
2011-08-18T21:18:25 < dekar_> I'll get 50mbit/s soon
2011-08-18T21:18:30 < dekar_> ordered it like a month ago
2011-08-18T21:18:54 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-18T21:18:55 <+izua> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/izua.ro
2011-08-18T21:18:56 < Steffanx> At least you use a comb izua
2011-08-18T21:18:59 <+izua> that says it's up
2011-08-18T21:19:20 <+izua> uh yeah
2011-08-18T21:19:25 <+izua> disregard all that crap on my desk xD
2011-08-18T21:19:31 < dekar_> I guess the routing between us is fucked up
2011-08-18T21:19:35 < Steffanx> And pills?
2011-08-18T21:19:37 < dekar_> internet does that once in a while
2011-08-18T21:19:51 <+izua> you did not see: windows xp, prescription drugs, condoms, comb xD
2011-08-18T21:19:54 < dekar_> izua.ro is down for me as well
2011-08-18T21:20:07 <+izua> izua.ath.cx?
2011-08-18T21:20:09 < Steffanx> Yay izua :P
2011-08-18T21:20:09 <+izua> odd.
2011-08-18T21:20:20 <+izua> also
2011-08-18T21:20:26 < dekar_> Google Chrome could not load the webpage because izua.ro took too long to respond. The website may be down, or you may be experiencing issues with your Internet connection.
2011-08-18T21:20:28 <+izua> you only saw a stm32 devboard
2011-08-18T21:20:28 < Steffanx> dekar_ pebkac
2011-08-18T21:20:45 < dekar_> the ath.cx worked
2011-08-18T21:20:46 < dekar_> O.o
2011-08-18T21:21:19 <+izua> hmm, freedns.ro is fail lately
2011-08-18T21:21:47 < Steffanx> Here it works perfectly
2011-08-18T21:22:27 < dekar_> Non-authoritative answer: Name:	izua.ro Address: 188.27.181.231
2011-08-18T21:22:36 < dekar_> is that correct?
2011-08-18T21:22:37 <+izua> that's about right.
2011-08-18T21:22:41 <+izua> odd.
2011-08-18T21:22:45 < Steffanx> even
2011-08-18T21:23:20 <+izua> i used to do izua.ath.cx as the authoritative NS on my TLD's nameserver
2011-08-18T21:23:23 < dekar_> can't telnet that ip at port 80
2011-08-18T21:23:36 < dekar_> telnet 188.27.181.231 80
2011-08-18T21:23:40 <+izua> that's.. fucked up
2011-08-18T21:23:40 <+izua> also
2011-08-18T21:23:43 < dekar_> that works for you right?
2011-08-18T21:23:46 <+izua> telnet.exe? :P
2011-08-18T21:23:52 <+izua> yes.
2011-08-18T21:24:02 < dekar_> my routing is fucked up then
2011-08-18T21:24:05 <+izua> izua@freyja ~/public_html/b/useless $ nc 188.27.181.231 80
2011-08-18T21:24:05 <+izua> GET / HTTP/1.0
2011-08-18T21:24:05 <+izua> HTTP/1.1 302 Found
2011-08-18T21:24:26 < dekar_> I guess some romanian gipsy stole the fibre to germany
2011-08-18T21:24:29 <+izua> something, somewhere between i guess
2011-08-18T21:24:30 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T21:24:31 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T21:24:35 <+izua> actually they do that ._.
2011-08-18T21:24:38 <+izua> it's called recycling while in use
2011-08-18T21:24:55 < dekar_> Connected to 188.27.181.231.
2011-08-18T21:24:57 < dekar_> did connect
2011-08-18T21:24:58 <+izua> they dig up huge patches of land, take out the cables, burn the insulation, and sell it at the recycling place.
2011-08-18T21:24:59 < dekar_> took ages
2011-08-18T21:25:11 <+izua> uh.
2011-08-18T21:25:12 <+izua> [Throttle off/off KB] [Rate 2459.7/  4.2 KB] [Port: 50201]
2011-08-18T21:25:18 <+izua> might have something to do with rtorrent i guess?
2011-08-18T21:25:46 <+izua> try again :D
2011-08-18T21:26:26 < dekar_> still the same, that port is uber slow
2011-08-18T21:26:59 <+izua> weird
2011-08-18T21:27:04 < dekar_> pings are fast (60ms) without loss
2011-08-18T21:27:06 <+izua> maybe some router is fail along the way
2011-08-18T21:27:10 < dekar_> now that's fucked up
2011-08-18T21:27:23 < Steffanx> Live goes on :)
2011-08-18T21:27:32 <+izua> and so does .NET and microsoft
2011-08-18T21:27:42 < Steffanx> stfu
2011-08-18T21:27:43 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-18T21:27:47 <+izua> kekeke
2011-08-18T21:27:52 < dekar_> objective-C!
2011-08-18T21:28:01 < Steffanx> No words about .NET and Microsoft!
2011-08-18T21:28:02 <+izua> i hear C++0x is out
2011-08-18T21:28:05 < Steffanx> LOLOL
2011-08-18T21:28:09 < dekar_> you mean C++11?
2011-08-18T21:28:18 < Steffanx> Not it's time for C++12
2011-08-18T21:28:27 <+izua> just been ratified by the iso guys a few days ago
2011-08-18T21:28:39 < Steffanx> iso => trash
2011-08-18T21:28:39 <+izua> took them long enough that the 0x naming is now deprecated
2011-08-18T21:28:49 <+izua> standards are good brah
2011-08-18T21:28:51 < dekar_> yeah, so funny :)
2011-08-18T21:28:54 <+izua> think metric screws
2011-08-18T21:28:59 <+izua> washer sizes
2011-08-18T21:29:03 < Steffanx> Standards are great
2011-08-18T21:29:10 < Steffanx> but ISO is sloooooow
2011-08-18T21:29:22 <+izua> heh
2011-08-18T21:29:23 <+izua> yeah.
2011-08-18T21:29:31 < Steffanx> They probably still live in 1990
2011-08-18T21:29:36 <+izua> we'd be using furlongs and fortnights
2011-08-18T21:29:52 <+izua> like those amerifa.. ns
2011-08-18T21:30:08 < Steffanx> You do?
2011-08-18T21:30:31 <+izua> imperial micrometers are factory calibrated in the metric system, though xD
2011-08-18T21:32:10 < dekar_> http://pastebin.com/4zkpHu0W
2011-08-18T21:32:45 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T21:32:46 < dekar_> can you connect to me? (deathstriker6666.homelinux.org)
2011-08-18T21:32:50 <+izua> it bounces to amsterdam?
2011-08-18T21:32:56 < dekar_> try ssh and traceroute
2011-08-18T21:33:14 <+izua> browser fails, nc hangs
2011-08-18T21:33:31 <+izua> ssh gave me your fingerprint RSA key fingerprint is 75:a7:ed:7b:b8:54:fa:54:75:9e:90:1f:1b:b8:4b:b1
2011-08-18T21:33:50 < dekar_> nothing at port 80 for me
2011-08-18T21:34:03 < dekar_> I have a root server for that stuff :P
2011-08-18T21:34:24 < dekar_> do you have ssh running?
2011-08-18T21:34:31 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-18T21:34:34 <+izua> but it's under portknocking
2011-08-18T21:34:51 < dekar_> k
2011-08-18T21:35:19 < dekar_> izua, do you think ssh isn't secure?
2011-08-18T21:35:32 <+izua> netcat to 6666
2011-08-18T21:35:49 <+izua> no, it's the fact that random niggers try cartloads of passwords on my server
2011-08-18T21:36:01 <+izua> and then flag it as exploitable
2011-08-18T21:37:01 <+izua> hmmph
2011-08-18T21:37:24 <+izua> netcat to :6666, i mean.
2011-08-18T21:38:13 < dekar_> dekar@vasectomy:~$ echo "test" | nc izua.ro 6666 izua.ro [188.27.181.231] 6666 (?) : Connection refused
2011-08-18T21:38:45 <+izua> hmm
2011-08-18T21:38:53 <+izua> freyja useless # nc -l -p 6666
2011-08-18T21:38:59 <+izua> didn't get anything at this end, obviously.
2011-08-18T21:39:31 < Steffanx> It's a pebkac izua :P
2011-08-18T21:39:45 <+izua> probably, but not mine
2011-08-18T21:39:54 < Steffanx> dekar_ forgot to connect his network cable
2011-08-18T21:40:01 <+izua> isp severed the whole district connection's today
2011-08-18T21:40:17 <+izua> well
2011-08-18T21:40:21 < dekar_> Steffanx, not pebkac, it's a routing problem
2011-08-18T21:40:25 < dekar_> lemme try my android
2011-08-18T21:40:26 <+izua> more like the whole neighbourhood
2011-08-18T21:40:29 <+izua> 8 blocks or so
2011-08-18T21:40:29 < Steffanx> Bad excuse :P
2011-08-18T21:41:07 <+izua> turns out the fiber converter somehow.. fell out of its box.
2011-08-18T21:41:09 < Steffanx> At least i'm close to ASM-IX
2011-08-18T21:42:04 <+izua> the whole reason - well, they only fixed the secure box in two screws, on top.
2011-08-18T21:42:27 <+izua> so the bottom fell after some years of stress
2011-08-18T21:42:46 <+izua> the really neat thing was that every computer could still connect to it
2011-08-18T21:42:50 <+izua> as in, reporting a carrier
2011-08-18T21:43:07 <+izua> or that was probably just because of the switch
2011-08-18T21:43:24 <+izua> because only the fiber connection was broken :/
2011-08-18T21:43:40 <+izua> i have no idea how you can actually consider fixing a box with 4 screws in only two.
2011-08-18T21:43:53 <+izua> and at the very least, not use the bottom screws ._.
2011-08-18T21:44:10 < dekar_> izua, did you get that?
2011-08-18T21:44:21 <+izua> i see 'test'
2011-08-18T21:44:30 <+izua> and probably an EOF because nc exited
2011-08-18T21:45:53 < dekar_> that "test" came from my laptop
2011-08-18T21:46:00 < dekar_> I sent "android" from my phone
2011-08-18T21:47:16 <+izua> i see test
2011-08-18T21:47:23 <+izua> sent testes back
2011-08-18T21:47:47 < dekar_> got it
2011-08-18T21:47:47 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-18T21:56:42 < dekar_> izua, http://pastebin.com/uVZk1mq2
2011-08-18T21:57:14 < Steffanx> You give your computer a name dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T21:57:16 < Steffanx> "vasectomy"
2011-08-18T21:57:47 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-18T21:57:58 < dekar_> my new one is "lobotomy"
2011-08-18T21:58:18 < Steffanx> "MacBook-Pro-van-Steffan-Woltjer" FTW :P
2011-08-18T21:58:27 < dekar_> pff
2011-08-18T21:58:32 <+izua> yep
2011-08-18T21:58:38 <+izua> now it seems to work
2011-08-18T21:58:55 < dekar_> unreliable for me
2011-08-18T21:59:07 <+izua> indeed
2011-08-18T21:59:16 <+izua> i should probably get some vps somewhere
2011-08-18T22:00:19 < Steffanx> sudo apt-get install vps
2011-08-18T22:00:49 < dekar_> oh it works fine on my root server in france btw
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2011-08-18T22:01:55 < dekar_> links2 -g izua.ro :D
2011-08-18T22:02:34 <+izua> uh
2011-08-18T22:02:35 <+izua> vph
2011-08-18T22:02:38 <+izua> not vps :/
2011-08-18T22:02:39 <+izua> that was retarded
2011-08-18T22:02:46 < dekar_> vph?
2011-08-18T22:02:52 <+izua> virtual private hosting
2011-08-18T22:02:53 < dekar_> get a root server :D
2011-08-18T22:02:58 <+izua> yeah, you get root on it
2011-08-18T22:02:59 < dekar_> like in physical
2011-08-18T22:03:00 <+izua> but it's in a vm
2011-08-18T22:03:06 < Steffanx> What's the difference?
2011-08-18T22:03:10 <+izua> dedicated servers are expensive
2011-08-18T22:03:17 <+izua> vphs are like €10
2011-08-18T22:03:17 < dekar_> VMs do random shit
2011-08-18T22:03:20 < Steffanx> VPS vs VPH ?
2011-08-18T22:03:30 < Steffanx> VM and random shit?!
2011-08-18T22:03:31 < dekar_> I dunno the diff
2011-08-18T22:03:32 <+izua> ah
2011-08-18T22:03:33 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T22:03:34 <+izua> vps
2011-08-18T22:03:37 < dekar_> get a root server :D
2011-08-18T22:03:37 <+izua> i thought i typed out vpn
2011-08-18T22:03:38 <+izua> :/
2011-08-18T22:03:42 <+izua> vps == vph i think
2011-08-18T22:03:46 < Steffanx> Hehe
2011-08-18T22:03:50  * izua is tired
2011-08-18T22:04:04 <+izua> root servers are expensive dude :P
2011-08-18T22:04:10 < Steffanx> tired.com izua
2011-08-18T22:04:20 < dekar_> google just gave me 70€ this month
2011-08-18T22:04:20 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T22:04:33 < dekar_> from google ads
2011-08-18T22:04:38 <+izua> my income is rather fluctuating
2011-08-18T22:04:56 < Steffanx> From -80 to + ??
2011-08-18T22:05:06 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T22:05:09 < dekar_> izua, how long till you have your bachelor?
2011-08-18T22:05:20 <+izua> this year i should finish uni
2011-08-18T22:05:33 <+izua> with a plain degree - not sure how you equivalate that
2011-08-18T22:05:37 < Steffanx> I hope to get mine within two months
2011-08-18T22:05:45 <+izua> bachelor's degree here == finishing high school
2011-08-18T22:05:53 < Steffanx> huh?
2011-08-18T22:06:08 < dekar_> I mean the american bachelor :P
2011-08-18T22:06:11 <+izua> with the uni, you get a specific 'license' project
2011-08-18T22:06:23 <+izua> disseration thesis
2011-08-18T22:06:24 < dekar_> I have a year and a half left
2011-08-18T22:06:35 < Vaati_> im startin university this fall  :)
2011-08-18T22:07:04 < dekar_> Vaati_, always study hard and eat your vegetables! :P
2011-08-18T22:07:09 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-18T22:07:15 < Vaati_> I'll keep that in mind
2011-08-18T22:07:19 < Steffanx> Hmm, are you really that young or are out a 'late student'?
2011-08-18T22:07:28 < Vaati_> i just turned 17
2011-08-18T22:07:33 < Vaati_> at the end of july
2011-08-18T22:07:40 < dekar_> this channel is 21+
2011-08-18T22:07:45 < dekar_> izua, ban him!
2011-08-18T22:07:48 <+izua> rofl
2011-08-18T22:07:48 < Vaati_> nooooooooo
2011-08-18T22:07:49 < Steffanx> Yeah, how about you dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T22:07:51 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-18T22:07:51 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-18T22:08:01 < Steffanx> Here you finish uni around 21-22
2011-08-18T22:08:02 < dekar_> Steffanx, 24
2011-08-18T22:08:06 <+izua> someone should post ascii goatse
2011-08-18T22:08:10 <+izua> and everyone will go away
2011-08-18T22:08:13 <+izua> i'll start
2011-08-18T22:08:15 <+izua> 3oE
2011-08-18T22:08:21 <+izua> do a bigger version now :D
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2011-08-18T22:08:30 <+izua> see, works already :D
2011-08-18T22:08:35 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-18T22:08:46 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-18T22:09:03 < Steffanx> Everything is better than that gnaa stuff izua
2011-08-18T22:09:11 < Vaati_> gnaa ?
2011-08-18T22:09:12 < Steffanx> That works too well..
2011-08-18T22:09:18 < Steffanx> You really don't want to know Vaati_
2011-08-18T22:09:25 <+izua> Steffanx: nah
2011-08-18T22:09:27 <+izua> let him know
2011-08-18T22:09:42 < Vaati_> tell me tell me
2011-08-18T22:09:51 < dekar_> izua, wasn't this channel europe only as well?
2011-08-18T22:09:54 <+izua> just a minute, let me find the link
2011-08-18T22:10:05 < dekar_> besides scots ofc
2011-08-18T22:10:13 < Steffanx> Isn't that part of EU?
2011-08-18T22:10:15 < Steffanx> the EU
2011-08-18T22:10:18 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-18T22:10:18 < Vaati_> oh noes, dekar_ is making light of my faults!  my status in this channel is dropping!
2011-08-18T22:10:22 < Steffanx> *Europe
2011-08-18T22:10:51 <+izua> Steffanx: huh
2011-08-18T22:10:54 < dekar_> Steffanx, scottland? I think it is, but I just added a nazi rule to keep scots out of this channel
2011-08-18T22:10:54 < Steffanx> I think google doesn't know about it
2011-08-18T22:10:54 <+izua> last measure is down?
2011-08-18T22:11:04 <+izua> dekar_: ROFL
2011-08-18T22:11:15 <+izua> alternatively, you should try meatspin
2011-08-18T22:11:19 <+izua> see what highscore you get
2011-08-18T22:11:21 < Vaati_> nty
2011-08-18T22:11:39 < Steffanx> They don't have the euro so i don't think they are part of the EU dekar_
2011-08-18T22:12:09 < Steffanx> nvm
2011-08-18T22:12:11 < Steffanx> the UK is :P
2011-08-18T22:12:16 < dekar_> Steffanx, England is europe and doesn't have the euro as well
2011-08-18T22:12:19 < dekar_> yeah...
2011-08-18T22:12:55 < dekar_> I feel like invading the UK - we haven't tried that in a while...
2011-08-18T22:13:15 < Steffanx> Yeah, you !@#$%^-ckers
2011-08-18T22:13:29 < Steffanx> We were neutral  :P
2011-08-18T22:13:40 < Steffanx> Just like we were in the WW1
2011-08-18T22:13:48 < Steffanx> -the
2011-08-18T22:14:02 < dekar_> "We're neutral, we don't care what you do with your jews!"
2011-08-18T22:14:19 < dekar_> bunch of pussies
2011-08-18T22:14:24 < Steffanx> We didn't have an army :P
2011-08-18T22:14:41 < Steffanx> We had, but they probably used the same guns as in WW1
2011-08-18T22:15:03 < Steffanx> And instead of tanks we used bycicles
2011-08-18T22:15:06 < Steffanx> *bicycles
2011-08-18T22:15:10 < Steffanx> Yeah :)
2011-08-18T22:15:18 < Steffanx> That's how you win a war
2011-08-18T22:15:22 < dekar_> "the attack isn't effective!"
2011-08-18T22:15:42 < Steffanx> Unless you attack NL :P
2011-08-18T22:16:02 < Steffanx> Our government is downgrading our army again...
2011-08-18T22:17:14 < dekar_> I meant like in pokemon - "NL uses bicycles against german tanks -> the attack isn't very effective!"
2011-08-18T22:17:40 < Steffanx> Pokémon, seriously?!
2011-08-18T22:17:44 < dekar_> totally
2011-08-18T22:17:55 < Steffanx> I'll never talk to you again
2011-08-18T22:17:58 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-18T22:18:11 < dekar_> I don't regret anything
2011-08-18T22:18:57 < dekar_> I had over 100!
2011-08-18T22:19:06 < Steffanx> 100 what?
2011-08-18T22:19:07 < Steffanx> Cards?
2011-08-18T22:19:13 < Steffanx> HP?
2011-08-18T22:19:19 < dekar_> no, only played the gameboy game
2011-08-18T22:19:26 < dekar_> the original one - red edition
2011-08-18T22:20:12 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T22:20:27 < dekar_> there are worse games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hwKdwFX8M
2011-08-18T22:20:35 < dekar_> I also played that
2011-08-18T22:20:49 < dekar_> pata pata pata pon!
2011-08-18T22:20:58 < dekar_> pon pon pata pon! (attack - I think)
2011-08-18T22:21:07 < Steffanx> You don't what to know about a game i playe
2011-08-18T22:21:08 < Steffanx> d
2011-08-18T22:21:19 < Steffanx> Let me take a look on a website with old dos games
2011-08-18T22:21:38 < dekar_> Master of Orion 2 was epic
2011-08-18T22:21:51 < dekar_> used to play that with friends via serial cable
2011-08-18T22:22:06 < dekar_> we actually sent it from one pc to another via serial
2011-08-18T22:22:18 < dekar_> it was like 400mb and took around 4 days XD
2011-08-18T22:23:33 < dekar_> we actually did IP/TCP over serial :D
2011-08-18T22:23:42 < dekar_> PCs back then were sooo horrible
2011-08-18T22:23:50 < Steffanx> Cant find it :(
2011-08-18T22:23:56 < dekar_> when you ran the wrong apps the connection broke
2011-08-18T22:24:27 < dekar_> I was sooo glad when I got my first 10mbit/s network card
2011-08-18T22:24:48 < Steffanx> I don't even remember
2011-08-18T22:25:05 < Steffanx> I've never really been into pc related hw
2011-08-18T22:25:22 < dekar_> they totally sucked back then
2011-08-18T22:25:35 < dekar_> I remember sharing a game on 24 floppy disks
2011-08-18T22:25:35 <+izua> and they will totally suck in 10 years :P
2011-08-18T22:25:42 < dekar_> and disk 23 was damaged
2011-08-18T22:26:16 < dekar_> (it was one of those multi disk zip archives where you had to start at disk 1 and keep inserting them for hours)
2011-08-18T22:26:21 < dekar_> so it failed to extract
2011-08-18T22:26:25 < dekar_> and we had to do it all over
2011-08-18T22:26:44 < dekar_> PCs are great today, everything is easy now
2011-08-18T22:26:50 <+izua> parallel port connections were waaay faster :P
2011-08-18T22:26:56 <+izua> though you had to use dedicated software
2011-08-18T22:27:00 < dekar_> yeah, I should have gotten one
2011-08-18T22:27:34 < dekar_> I decided to get a serial cable (spent a ton of pocket money on that - like 30€?) for compatibility
2011-08-18T22:27:41 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T22:27:48 <+izua> those could be wired at home dude ._.
2011-08-18T22:27:59 < dekar_> I was a kid back then
2011-08-18T22:28:03 <+izua> null modem cable, there were schematics in every book
2011-08-18T22:28:05 < dekar_> too scared to fuck up the pc
2011-08-18T22:28:17 <+izua> hm
2011-08-18T22:28:18 < dekar_> I totally wasn't into HW back then
2011-08-18T22:28:21 <+izua> i alwaysliked messing around with stuff
2011-08-18T22:28:35 < dekar_> I had a 486er back then :)
2011-08-18T22:28:38 <+izua> my first 'computer' which was more like a console-kind-of-thing was a spectrum clone
2011-08-18T22:28:44 <+izua> i soldered it by hand with a friend
2011-08-18T22:28:49 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-18T22:28:50 < dekar_> parallel port external 4x cd-rom drive
2011-08-18T22:28:54 < dekar_> dos drivers :)
2011-08-18T22:29:04 <+izua> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=632
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2011-08-18T22:29:37 < Steffanx> You are really that old izua ?
2011-08-18T22:29:48 < dekar_> looked like that one: http://image2.onlineauction.com/auctions//26234/atkc-1195434-3.jpg
2011-08-18T22:30:05 <+izua> nah, i'm 22
2011-08-18T22:30:11 <+izua> it's just, that's the best i could afford back then
2011-08-18T22:30:12 < dekar_> my first one was a 486er I think
2011-08-18T22:30:25 < dekar_> got a 386er a while later
2011-08-18T22:30:33 < Steffanx> And it was in?
2011-08-18T22:30:36 < Steffanx> 199x?
2011-08-18T22:30:40 < dekar_> so I could play via serial :)
2011-08-18T22:30:57 < dekar_> dunno - 1994?
2011-08-18T22:31:07 <+izua> NEAT
2011-08-18T22:31:09 < Steffanx> I mean that fancy pc thing from izua
2011-08-18T22:31:09 <+izua> it's a CDROM
2011-08-18T22:31:24 <+izua> oh. 98-99 i think
2011-08-18T22:31:37 <+izua> pc computers were still a neat think, you'd get like 1/school or something
2011-08-18T22:31:38 < Steffanx> Ah, ok
2011-08-18T22:31:41 < dekar_> so late :P
2011-08-18T22:31:46 <+izua> yeah, rather late
2011-08-18T22:31:56 < dekar_> I had internet at that time
2011-08-18T22:31:56 <+izua> everyone till had sega mega drive clones for gaming
2011-08-18T22:32:17 <+izua> i got internet access later, probably in 2002 for the first time
2011-08-18T22:32:21 < Steffanx> I've no idea when we had internet
2011-08-18T22:32:32 <+izua> when you'd find gaming cafes everywhere
2011-08-18T22:32:38 < dekar_> I had a modem for my 486er
2011-08-18T22:32:42 <+izua> internet access was more like a privilege
2011-08-18T22:32:50 < Steffanx> I know my father used Napster often with our 56k connection
2011-08-18T22:32:56 < dekar_> I did that as well
2011-08-18T22:33:04 < dekar_> took like 10-15 minutes for one mp3
2011-08-18T22:33:05 <+izua> haha
2011-08-18T22:33:10 < dekar_> so not worth it
2011-08-18T22:33:11 <+izua> i never even got to see napster ._.
2011-08-18T22:33:19 < Steffanx> I also used that pc when my parents weren't at home :)
2011-08-18T22:33:28 <+izua> and spammed it full of porn
2011-08-18T22:33:34 <+izua> LOADING
2011-08-18T22:33:34 <+izua> LOADING
2011-08-18T22:33:38 <+izua> HERE COMES A NIPPLE
2011-08-18T22:33:39 <+izua> LOADING
2011-08-18T22:33:46 < dekar_> I used opera back then to block all images
2011-08-18T22:34:03 < dekar_> made internet loading times bearable
2011-08-18T22:34:22 < dekar_> it had this mode where it used those already cached
2011-08-18T22:34:35 < dekar_> but didn't load any new
2011-08-18T22:35:12 < dekar_> win95 was great, it actually allowed you to press any key to continue on bluescreens :)
2011-08-18T22:35:26 < dekar_> it had a ton of them though
2011-08-18T22:38:23 <+izua> Steffanx: that wasn't really fancy though
2011-08-18T22:38:30 <+izua> it used a crappy basic dialect for programming
2011-08-18T22:38:36 <+izua> it was actually very close to assembly
2011-08-18T22:38:45 <+izua> you didn't 'type' commands, as you would now, in a compiler
2011-08-18T22:38:52 <+izua> like i n t  a;
2011-08-18T22:39:06 <+izua> you'd type some fancy key combination, ss + cs + compose + k
2011-08-18T22:39:09 <+izua> and it printed 'var'
2011-08-18T22:39:15 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-18T22:39:18 <+izua> if you typed var manually, it failed.
2011-08-18T22:39:40 < dekar_> -.-
2011-08-18T22:39:49 < dekar_> I started with qbasic
2011-08-18T22:39:59 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-18T22:40:05  * izua did with visual basic 4.
2011-08-18T22:40:05 < dekar_> so I am the oldest one here? O.o
2011-08-18T22:40:18 <+izua> uh, well, i'm 22 xD
2011-08-18T22:40:22 <+izua> you did play pokemon though
2011-08-18T22:40:27 <+izua> so that makes you like age -= 10
2011-08-18T22:40:33 < dekar_> everyone at my age did :P
2011-08-18T22:40:47 < dekar_> we also watched dragonball
2011-08-18T22:40:51 < Steffanx> z
2011-08-18T22:40:58 < dekar_> that as well
2011-08-18T22:40:58 <+izua> dragon ballz!
2011-08-18T22:41:01 <+izua> it's over 9000!
2011-08-18T22:41:06 < dekar_> 9000!
2011-08-18T22:41:08 <+izua> nah
2011-08-18T22:41:22 <+izua> i didn't get this anime/japanese shit since well, a kid
2011-08-18T22:41:32 <+izua> i think the only thing i hardly watched was sailor moon
2011-08-18T22:41:34 < dekar_> I watched power rangers
2011-08-18T22:41:38 <+izua> and that was because the chicks were getting naked
2011-08-18T22:41:38 < Steffanx> Nononono
2011-08-18T22:41:41 < Steffanx> Not the power rangers!
2011-08-18T22:41:44 <+izua> i was like
2011-08-18T22:41:47 <+izua> holy shit boobs on tv
2011-08-18T22:41:50 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-18T22:41:51 < Steffanx> And after that you got the kiddy power rangers
2011-08-18T22:41:54 <+izua> and i don't have to stay up late!
2011-08-18T22:41:54 < Steffanx> Don't know the name
2011-08-18T22:42:14 < dekar_> so both of you never touched pokemon?
2011-08-18T22:42:20 < dekar_> never had a gameboy?
2011-08-18T22:42:22 <+izua> not really
2011-08-18T22:42:32 <+izua> i had a tetris 500-in-1 clone ;P
2011-08-18T22:42:40 < dekar_> I had one as well :/
2011-08-18T22:42:46 <+izua> it had a LOT of fucking games
2011-08-18T22:42:53 < dekar_> they all sucked
2011-08-18T22:42:59 < dekar_> no good games like zelda
2011-08-18T22:43:09 <+izua> i had a mega drive for that
2011-08-18T22:43:13 < dekar_> I really liked zelda on gameboy
2011-08-18T22:43:13 <+izua> well, probably not original
2011-08-18T22:43:22 <+izua> judging from how mine looked compared to what i see on wiki now :P
2011-08-18T22:43:25 < Steffanx> Ah, the Beetleborgs :)
2011-08-18T22:43:30 <+izua> and it was dirt cheap too, €20 or so
2011-08-18T22:43:35 <+izua> uh hmm
2011-08-18T22:43:41 <+izua> probably less, accounting for inflation
2011-08-18T22:44:21 <+izua> i did have zelda too :P
2011-08-18T22:44:27 <+izua> it was pretty epic
2011-08-18T22:44:33 <+izua> the cartridge could save games
2011-08-18T22:44:40 <+izua> and i was like HOW THE HELL DOES IT DO THAT for the longest time
2011-08-18T22:44:43 < dekar_> izua, I also had Lufia2 on SNES - which had capsule monsters
2011-08-18T22:45:00 < dekar_> pokemon basically took one element of that game and made it a full game
2011-08-18T22:45:07 <+izua> hmm
2011-08-18T22:45:08 <+izua> 72 MHz
2011-08-18T22:45:11 < dekar_> I had all the awesome SNES RPGs
2011-08-18T22:45:15 <+izua> you need like 4 to get a PAL signal out
2011-08-18T22:45:22 <+izua> probably 16 to get 8 colors
2011-08-18T22:45:49 <+izua> wonder how simple it would be to emulate everything from rom level
2011-08-18T22:45:51 <+izua> on a modern mcu
2011-08-18T22:45:53 < dekar_> izua, http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/82476-lufia-ii-rise-of-the-sinistrals-snes-screenshot-feeding-a-capsule.png
2011-08-18T22:46:29 <+izua> i think solstice was the most epic game
2011-08-18T22:46:33 <+izua> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice_%28video_game%29
2011-08-18T22:46:44 < dekar_> dekar is a lufia2 character btw - the worlds strongest warrior
2011-08-18T22:47:01 < Steffanx> Nohoho
2011-08-18T22:47:13  * izua is a shorter form of that guy from diablo 2, act 4 - izual
2011-08-18T22:47:26 <+izua> where the world's strongest warrior had to go back to the city 4 times to sharpen his sword
2011-08-18T22:47:33 < Steffanx>  reputation_dekar--;
2011-08-18T22:47:38 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-18T22:48:12 < dekar_> Steffanx, so where does your nick come from? oh wait... :P
2011-08-18T22:48:23 <+izua> hahahh
2011-08-18T22:48:26 < Steffanx> Uhm, my name + random character
2011-08-18T22:48:27 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-18T22:48:39 < Steffanx> 'Steffan' was already registered
2011-08-18T22:48:56 < Steffanx> There is no special meaning
2011-08-18T22:50:00 < dekar_> seriously? who would have thought that? :/
2011-08-18T22:50:03 < dekar_> izua, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUEcqMrQBpw
2011-08-18T22:50:14 < dekar_> lufia2 had epic dungeons with epic puzzles
2011-08-18T22:50:16 <+izua> dude
2011-08-18T22:50:19 <+izua> stfu with your retro gaming
2011-08-18T22:50:29 <+izua> you're making me want to go back to play those games
2011-08-18T22:50:39 < dekar_> lufia2 is epic
2011-08-18T22:50:43 < dekar_> you gotta play it
2011-08-18T22:50:48 < dekar_> and terranigma
2011-08-18T22:51:00 < Steffanx> doxbox ftw
2011-08-18T22:51:12 < dekar_> they're SNES -.-"
2011-08-18T22:51:50 < dekar_> some stupid girl sold mine :/
2011-08-18T22:52:03 < Steffanx> "Your sister"?
2011-08-18T22:52:40 < dekar_> no, actually the niece of my half sisters dad
2011-08-18T22:52:54 < Steffanx> Aaaah
2011-08-18T22:52:58 < dekar_> I never even got the money
2011-08-18T22:53:05 <+izua> that was my next guess.
2011-08-18T22:53:15 < dekar_> I had a HUUUGE collection
2011-08-18T22:53:26 < dekar_> her mother was like "she said you allowed her to sell it
2011-08-18T22:53:37 < dekar_> and I even had all the boxes etc left
2011-08-18T22:53:55 < dekar_> I guess if I sold it today I'd get at least 200€
2011-08-18T22:54:08 < dekar_> she sold everything for like 20€
2011-08-18T22:55:44 < dekar_> that family (the one of my sisters dad) is really fucked up
2011-08-18T22:56:28 < dekar_> they all randomly started hating each other and they actually used to be pretty rich owning a ton of houses, a few years ago they lost everything and moved to greece
2011-08-18T22:57:07 < dekar_> life is random I guess
2011-08-18T22:57:11 <+izua> meh
2011-08-18T22:57:15 <+izua> money fucks things up a lot
2011-08-18T22:57:34 < dekar_> at least I used to live in that big ass house for a while :)
2011-08-18T22:57:53 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-18T22:58:04 < dekar_> even had a pool - I had two rooms with balcony :D
2011-08-18T22:58:06 <+izua> i had a gf once which was obnoxiously rich
2011-08-18T22:58:18 < dekar_> (more than I have now)
2011-08-18T22:58:36 <+izua> had something like.. 50 room villa with 3 stories
2011-08-18T22:58:39 <+izua> well, her family, not her
2011-08-18T22:58:39 < dekar_> so why didn't you stick to her?
2011-08-18T22:58:52 <+izua> too much issues
2011-08-18T22:58:57 < dekar_> no waii
2011-08-18T22:59:01 <+izua> plus i couldn't stick at her place at all
2011-08-18T22:59:08 <+izua> people were always screaming/fighting/etc
2011-08-18T22:59:11 < dekar_> there's no too much once there is that much money involved
2011-08-18T22:59:28 < dekar_> you gotta sell your soul :)
2011-08-18T22:59:38 < Steffanx> 3 stories izua ? :)
2011-08-18T22:59:39 < Steffanx> Waoh
2011-08-18T22:59:43 <+izua> i didn't ask for any of those money
2011-08-18T23:00:03 <+izua> that's a shitty move always when dealing with chicks :/
2011-08-18T23:00:05 < Steffanx> Can you tell me at least 2 of those stories?
2011-08-18T23:00:08 < dekar_> Steffanx, we also had 3 stories - there actually was another house in the garden - for visitors
2011-08-18T23:00:44 <+izua> i never got this
2011-08-18T23:00:48 <+izua> maybe that's why i'm not rich
2011-08-18T23:00:51 < dekar_> izua, just marry her
2011-08-18T23:00:56 <+izua> but why not build something functional and start a business
2011-08-18T23:00:58 < dekar_> and divorce again
2011-08-18T23:01:01 <+izua> what's the point of having a uberhuge house
2011-08-18T23:01:07 < dekar_> and then start a business
2011-08-18T23:01:16 < Steffanx> I also what a uberhuge house izua
2011-08-18T23:01:22 < Steffanx> Near a beach..
2011-08-18T23:01:27 < Steffanx> Blue sea
2011-08-18T23:01:28 <+izua> dude, i was 16
2011-08-18T23:01:40 <+izua> rather hard to marry someone by that age
2011-08-18T23:01:50 <+izua> and it's too late to get married if you're a gypsy!
2011-08-18T23:01:56 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-18T23:02:13 < Steffanx> Gypsies are not that poor most of the time are they?
2011-08-18T23:02:26 <+izua> i want my own house, but after some messing around with architectural plans and samples, i don't want a bigass one
2011-08-18T23:02:33 <+izua> i think i'll settle for a functional one
2011-08-18T23:02:40 <+izua> some of them are also incredibly rich
2011-08-18T23:02:41 < Steffanx> I prefer architectural
2011-08-18T23:02:49 < Steffanx> Don't have the money though
2011-08-18T23:03:01 < dekar_> I just prefer the money
2011-08-18T23:03:01 <+izua> there's a village of them somewhere around, and each has a small castle
2011-08-18T23:03:05 < dekar_> don't care about the rest
2011-08-18T23:03:06 < Steffanx> Why dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T23:03:09 < dekar_> hotel is fine as well
2011-08-18T23:03:12 <+izua> with incredibly retarded stuff like gilded roof tiles
2011-08-18T23:03:18 < Steffanx> You die, money = gone
2011-08-18T23:03:28 <+izua> because you can choose to do with the money
2011-08-18T23:03:29 < dekar_> Steffanx, we all die anyway
2011-08-18T23:03:32 <+izua> you don't get a premade choice
2011-08-18T23:03:34 < dekar_> but money is fun
2011-08-18T23:03:46 < Steffanx> A biguberhuge hose is fun too
2011-08-18T23:03:47 < dekar_> I'd live in a hotel for like a year or two I think
2011-08-18T23:03:51 < Steffanx> *house
2011-08-18T23:03:52 <+izua> hm, i'd say earning/investing them is better :P
2011-08-18T23:03:53 < dekar_> sounds like fun for a while
2011-08-18T23:04:11 < dekar_> one of those $900 a day ones
2011-08-18T23:04:21 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-18T23:04:23 < Steffanx> No thanks
2011-08-18T23:04:26 <+izua> bah
2011-08-18T23:04:29 <+izua> everyone here is rich :P
2011-08-18T23:04:32 <+izua> and european
2011-08-18T23:04:46 < Steffanx> Me and rich...
2011-08-18T23:04:52 < dekar_> me neither
2011-08-18T23:05:05 < dekar_> gimme money
2011-08-18T23:05:06 < Steffanx> I'm not poor, but i'm also not rich
2011-08-18T23:05:09 < Steffanx> I'm 'avarage'
2011-08-18T23:05:19 <+izua> http://themetapicture.com/sir-blow-into-this-breathalyzer-for-me/
2011-08-18T23:05:20 < dekar_> I just signed up for driving lessons btw XD
2011-08-18T23:05:34 < Steffanx> What do you pay for that overthere dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T23:05:34 < dekar_> I feel like getting a car - finally
2011-08-18T23:05:42 < dekar_> 1500€
2011-08-18T23:05:45 < dekar_> just car
2011-08-18T23:05:56 < Steffanx> I mean the lessons
2011-08-18T23:06:01 < dekar_> I meant the lessons
2011-08-18T23:06:01 <+izua> cars are a horrible investment
2011-08-18T23:06:04 <+izua> if you don't need them
2011-08-18T23:06:14 < Steffanx> Ah
2011-08-18T23:06:16 < dekar_> izua, I need them
2011-08-18T23:06:19 < Steffanx> also !@#$% expensive dekar_
2011-08-18T23:06:20 <+izua> people here get into huge debts to get a car
2011-08-18T23:06:29 <+izua> and then suddenly are like hurr durr bank wants my house
2011-08-18T23:06:42 < Steffanx> Go to belgium dekar_
2011-08-18T23:06:43 < dekar_> izua, I won't pick a pretty one - some old for like 2k€ is good enough
2011-08-18T23:06:51 <+izua> i guess
2011-08-18T23:06:54 < Steffanx> One of your parents can give you lessons in Belgium
2011-08-18T23:06:56 < dekar_> Steffanx, nah - don't wanna :)
2011-08-18T23:07:06 < dekar_> german drivers license is superior
2011-08-18T23:07:11 < Steffanx> Yeah sure
2011-08-18T23:07:14 < dekar_> it's even accepted in the USA
2011-08-18T23:07:16 <+izua> yes because it allows you to drives vechicles on roads
2011-08-18T23:07:23 <+izua> as opposed to a beligan driving license
2011-08-18T23:07:28 <+izua> which allows you to drives vechicles on roads
2011-08-18T23:07:33 < dekar_> I don't think any other european license is allowed in the USA
2011-08-18T23:07:48 <+izua> but you can't drive to USA
2011-08-18T23:07:50 < Steffanx> I don't know about the dutch one
2011-08-18T23:08:08 < dekar_> you guys got your license already?
2011-08-18T23:08:13 < Steffanx> dekar_, i think it's just because you screwed up in 1945, the US had to do something good for you :P
2011-08-18T23:08:22 < dekar_> I am pretty late, all of my friends got theirs when they were like 17-18
2011-08-18T23:08:32 < Steffanx> Here you have to be at least 18
2011-08-18T23:08:48 < Steffanx> You can start when you're 17, in a simulator :)
2011-08-18T23:08:49 < dekar_> Steffanx, that must be the reason they buy all our stuff and go bankrupt now
2011-08-18T23:09:54 < dekar_> I still want to move to norway :)
2011-08-18T23:10:08 < dekar_> I guess once I got my phd I'll move
2011-08-18T23:10:15 < Steffanx> The dutch license is also allowed in the US
2011-08-18T23:10:20 < dekar_> no waii!
2011-08-18T23:10:23 < Steffanx> You and phd?!
2011-08-18T23:10:26 < dekar_> sure
2011-08-18T23:10:32 < Steffanx> When?
2011-08-18T23:10:36 < Steffanx> What world?
2011-08-18T23:10:45 < Steffanx> dekar_land?
2011-08-18T23:10:47 < dekar_> the one you live in
2011-08-18T23:11:00 < dekar_> what's the point? phd ain't that hard
2011-08-18T23:11:09 < dekar_> I invent stuff phd worthy all the time
2011-08-18T23:11:13 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-18T23:11:17 < dekar_> seriously
2011-08-18T23:11:30 <+izua> if it's any consolation, i also didn't care about driving licenses
2011-08-18T23:11:38 <+izua> everyone i knew got it first thing when they turned 18
2011-08-18T23:11:39 < dekar_> I have like 50 pages documentation on pseudonymous networks I worked on
2011-08-18T23:11:46 < dekar_> I could easily use that as my thesis
2011-08-18T23:11:57 < Steffanx> All stolen from others?
2011-08-18T23:12:02 < dekar_> fu
2011-08-18T23:12:03 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T23:12:06 < dekar_> all my work
2011-08-18T23:12:46 < dekar_> I partnered up with a friend actually
2011-08-18T23:12:47 < Steffanx> You have to do at least ONE useless investigation-ish thing
2011-08-18T23:12:59 < dekar_> Steffanx, so what?
2011-08-18T23:13:13 < Steffanx> Maybe the german phd is different :P
2011-08-18T23:13:27 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-08-18T23:13:37 < dekar_> Steffanx, that's easy stuff
2011-08-18T23:13:37  * Laurenceb_ is studying for a PhD atm
2011-08-18T23:14:00 < Laurenceb_> its a bit of a waste of time, id be better starting my own business
2011-08-18T23:14:04 < Steffanx> Here you even have to be selected to start with a phd afaik
2011-08-18T23:14:10 < dekar_> I have some really nifty algorithms for pseudonymous data routing for example
2011-08-18T23:14:18 < Steffanx> aka being @#$ smart :P
2011-08-18T23:14:41 <+izua> or inventing your own problem and then solving it
2011-08-18T23:14:47 < Steffanx> Hehe izua
2011-08-18T23:14:53 < Steffanx> Whatever pseudonymous data routing is dekar_
2011-08-18T23:15:10 < dekar_> Steffanx, see? that's good enough!
2011-08-18T23:15:47 < Steffanx> Here PhD isn't even a real title :)
2011-08-18T23:15:52 < dekar_> here it is
2011-08-18T23:16:02 < dekar_> people legally have to call you by that title
2011-08-18T23:16:11  * Laurenceb_ is in UK
2011-08-18T23:16:23 <+izua> doctor?
2011-08-18T23:16:26 < Laurenceb_> some of the stuff people are doing for PhD is utter BS
2011-08-18T23:16:49 < dekar_> Laurenceb, same for bachelor and master
2011-08-18T23:16:52 < Laurenceb_> im trying to at least do something worthwhile
2011-08-18T23:17:07  * Laurenceb_ is working on medical devices stuff
2011-08-18T23:17:24 <+izua> what sort of stuff?
2011-08-18T23:17:28 <+izua> any interest in EEGs?
2011-08-18T23:17:34 < Laurenceb_> nope
2011-08-18T23:17:40 < Laurenceb_> blood flow monitoring
2011-08-18T23:17:47 < dekar_> we had some PhD guy doing AI implementations at our company, now he's employed and that stuff was never even used
2011-08-18T23:18:06 < Steffanx> yay
2011-08-18T23:18:14 < dekar_> I'd make something useful though
2011-08-18T23:18:24 < Laurenceb_> my supervisor wants me to use "capillary refill" basically air bladder applies pressure to skin and you look at colour change
2011-08-18T23:18:25 <+izua> so would i
2011-08-18T23:18:27 < Laurenceb_> soooo lame
2011-08-18T23:18:31 <+izua> but i'm not sure what something useful would be.
2011-08-18T23:19:20 < dekar_> I have been working on some darknet for a bit, I'd probably actually implement it as phd
2011-08-18T23:19:30 < dekar_> it's the first one with proper routing
2011-08-18T23:19:35 <+izua> pedoheaven!
2011-08-18T23:19:47 < Laurenceb_> loool
2011-08-18T23:19:48 < dekar_> I guess
2011-08-18T23:19:56 < dekar_> so - you're invited :=
2011-08-18T23:19:58 <+izua> tor has half the hidden wiki link to cp
2011-08-18T23:19:59 < dekar_> :P
2011-08-18T23:20:04 < dekar_> tor sucks
2011-08-18T23:20:11 <+izua> when i messed with the freenet boards, 90% of messages were related to cp
2011-08-18T23:20:12 < Laurenceb_> hidden wiki link?
2011-08-18T23:20:16 < Laurenceb_> lool
2011-08-18T23:20:22 <+izua> so seriously ._.
2011-08-18T23:20:30 < dekar_> I know -.-
2011-08-18T23:20:31 < Steffanx> What did/do you study Laurenceb ?
2011-08-18T23:20:34 < dekar_> but those networks all fail
2011-08-18T23:20:37 < Laurenceb_> physics
2011-08-18T23:20:39 < dekar_> I want to make a better one
2011-08-18T23:20:45 <+izua> why do they fail?
2011-08-18T23:20:57 < dekar_> tor has insane overhead and only a few servers
2011-08-18T23:21:25 <+izua> yes, but tor isn't a darknet per se
2011-08-18T23:21:30 < dekar_> it's security is somewhere in O(c²/n²) but for several attack it is as low as O(c/n)
2011-08-18T23:21:39 < dekar_> I know it isn't
2011-08-18T23:21:47 < dekar_> I have plans for two networks actually
2011-08-18T23:21:54 <+izua> hm?
2011-08-18T23:21:56 < dekar_> only one is darknet
2011-08-18T23:22:16 < dekar_> I planned to found a company and make it big a while ago
2011-08-18T23:22:26 < dekar_> well then I got employed and sidetracked
2011-08-18T23:22:54 < Steffanx> Then unemploy yourself and start it
2011-08-18T23:22:55 < dekar_> izua, you know big-O notation?
2011-08-18T23:23:04 < dekar_> complexity of algorithms?
2011-08-18T23:23:17 <+izua> vaguely
2011-08-18T23:23:30 <+izua> i don't know enough about crypto to understand them, though
2011-08-18T23:23:59 < dekar_> the attacks aren't even crypto related, it's just the chance of an attack to succeed
2011-08-18T23:23:59 <+izua> i get the part where something is slower than something else, and the function that describes the order by which is slower :P
2011-08-18T23:24:02 < dekar_> c being attackers
2011-08-18T23:24:07 < dekar_> n being legit servers
2011-08-18T23:24:10 <+izua> ah
2011-08-18T23:24:42 < dekar_> TOR has like 2k servers - totally sucks
2011-08-18T23:24:56 <+izua> but that's not the software's fault
2011-08-18T23:25:01 <+izua> it's the low rate of adoption
2011-08-18T23:25:10 < dekar_> oh we actually started writing a scientific paper btw
2011-08-18T23:25:11 <+izua> how do you plan on solving this issue?
2011-08-18T23:25:17 < dekar_> we gotta release that as well
2011-08-18T23:25:26 <+izua> which 'we'
2011-08-18T23:25:28 <+izua> :P
2011-08-18T23:25:28 < Steffanx> Give the servers no internet
2011-08-18T23:25:32 < dekar_> a friend and I
2011-08-18T23:25:47 < dekar_> it's about an attack in O(log(n)) on any network based on the internet
2011-08-18T23:25:53 < dekar_> well - pseudonymous network
2011-08-18T23:26:14 < dekar_> so that attack scales really well
2011-08-18T23:26:52 < dekar_> N is pretty big though
2011-08-18T23:26:58 < Steffanx> Can't you investigate something USEFUL ?
2011-08-18T23:27:00 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-18T23:27:17 < dekar_> what do you mean? developing attacks to break anonymity isn't useful?
2011-08-18T23:27:34 < Steffanx> Do you think it's useful?
2011-08-18T23:27:40 < dekar_> I could imagine people paying me to do that
2011-08-18T23:27:43 < Steffanx> Like time traveling, time acceleration, would be more useful
2011-08-18T23:27:43 <+izua> people put their details out in the open and have javascript enabled
2011-08-18T23:27:56 < Steffanx> -like
2011-08-18T23:27:57 < dekar_> it's still science
2011-08-18T23:28:06  * izua thinks the only useful purposefor cryptography is illegal content, like cp!
2011-08-18T23:28:08 < dekar_> doesn't even need to be useful
2011-08-18T23:28:24 < Steffanx> Isn't germany really into 'anonymity'?
2011-08-18T23:28:28 < dekar_> so I have a strong tool to break anonymity
2011-08-18T23:28:41 < dekar_> izua, I disagree btw
2011-08-18T23:29:00 < Steffanx> I don't
2011-08-18T23:29:02 < dekar_> it's also to protect your rights when visiting the US or china
2011-08-18T23:29:23 < dekar_> to implement freedom of speech
2011-08-18T23:29:28 < dekar_> (illegal in germany)
2011-08-18T23:29:30 <+izua> that's not really useful.
2011-08-18T23:29:35 < Steffanx> So don't develop a tool to break 'anonymity' dekar_
2011-08-18T23:29:43 < Steffanx> The US already wants to know !@#$%ˆ&* too much
2011-08-18T23:29:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, why?
2011-08-18T23:29:52 <+izua> the fact that one person doesn't want to conform to a country's law (ie, don't browse shit we don't want you to) is more like illegal.
2011-08-18T23:30:07 <+izua> and freedom of speech is well, nice and something to abide by
2011-08-18T23:30:09 <+izua> but seriously
2011-08-18T23:30:12 < dekar_> Steffanx, it is an attack, only when I know it exists I can think about ways to protect against it
2011-08-18T23:30:14 <+izua> assange is probably still in some jail
2011-08-18T23:30:27 <+izua> and the fact that everybody knows about some shitty diplomatic cables didn't make the world a better place
2011-08-18T23:30:45 < Steffanx> Ok, as long as you don't sell it to any government it's ok dekar_ :P
2011-08-18T23:30:45 < dekar_> assange made his choice
2011-08-18T23:30:49 < Steffanx> Not for a billion $
2011-08-18T23:30:54 < Vaati_> whos assange
2011-08-18T23:30:55 <+izua> at worse, it could probably have started a war
2011-08-18T23:30:59 < Steffanx> Vaati_ ?!
2011-08-18T23:31:01 < Steffanx> wikileaks?
2011-08-18T23:31:02 < Vaati_> :|
2011-08-18T23:31:05 < dekar_> Steffanx, why? I plan on publically releasing it in a scientific paper actualy
2011-08-18T23:31:06 < Vaati_> oh
2011-08-18T23:31:08 < dekar_> *actually
2011-08-18T23:31:13 < Vaati_> i know what wikileaks is
2011-08-18T23:31:23 < Steffanx> Assange is sort of the man behind wikileaks
2011-08-18T23:31:26 < Laurenceb_> i think we are getting rickrolled by izua
2011-08-18T23:31:28 < Vaati_> ah
2011-08-18T23:31:30 <+izua> hahah
2011-08-18T23:31:42 <+izua> unrelated link posted to related link
2011-08-18T23:31:44 <+izua> always works.
2011-08-18T23:31:48 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-18T23:32:14 < Steffanx> I still prefer that you invent something useful dekar_
2011-08-18T23:32:29 < Steffanx> Something that will change people's life
2011-08-18T23:32:39 < dekar_> Steffanx, I don't mind proving anonymity being hard to implement, I just research the boundaries
2011-08-18T23:33:00 < Laurenceb_>  "(ie, don't browse shit we don't want you to"
2011-08-18T23:33:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, is bitcoin useful?
2011-08-18T23:33:10 < Laurenceb_> izua: thats called being a fascist
2011-08-18T23:33:13 < Steffanx> Anonymity is a myth
2011-08-18T23:33:17 < dekar_> I think it's shit, still I like it exists
2011-08-18T23:33:30 < Steffanx> bitcoin.. a nice project
2011-08-18T23:33:37 < Steffanx> but
2011-08-18T23:33:39 < dekar_> waste of energy imo
2011-08-18T23:33:45 < Steffanx> ^ that
2011-08-18T23:33:45 <+izua> Laurenceb_: i suppose
2011-08-18T23:33:53 < Steffanx> It was a nice try
2011-08-18T23:33:55 < dekar_> I am pretty sure it will die after the coins ran out
2011-08-18T23:34:08 < Steffanx> but it seemed to be too hackable
2011-08-18T23:34:17 <+izua> but the fact that you do something that a lot more powerful people want you TO STOP DOING makes you stupid
2011-08-18T23:34:22 < dekar_> since they can only earn money by requesting some percentage of the transfers
2011-08-18T23:34:28 < dekar_> but some people will always make it fre
2011-08-18T23:34:30 < dekar_> *free
2011-08-18T23:34:33 < Laurenceb_> anyways
2011-08-18T23:34:36 < Laurenceb_> http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/18/technology/hp_pc_spinoff/
2011-08-18T23:34:38 <+izua> and china is commie anyway..
2011-08-18T23:34:38 < dekar_> so those requesting coins for the work will stop
2011-08-18T23:34:41 < Laurenceb_> ^free stuff coming
2011-08-18T23:34:42 < dekar_> and the network gets weak
2011-08-18T23:34:52 < Steffanx> China is going to die izua :P
2011-08-18T23:34:52 < Laurenceb_> or cheap anyway
2011-08-18T23:35:26 < dekar_> Steffanx, what makes you think anonymity is a myth?
2011-08-18T23:35:36 < dekar_> there is the information loss paradox for example
2011-08-18T23:35:40 <+izua> Steffanx: i highly doubt that
2011-08-18T23:35:46 < dekar_> it should proof anonymity is very possible
2011-08-18T23:35:55 < dekar_> just needs a black hole :)
2011-08-18T23:35:58 <+izua> my opinion is that they will become the strongest economy in a few tens of years
2011-08-18T23:35:59 < Steffanx> Big brother is already watching me dekar_
2011-08-18T23:36:01 < dekar_> and some hawking radiation
2011-08-18T23:36:07 < Steffanx> They'll kill themself
2011-08-18T23:36:09 < Steffanx> izua
2011-08-18T23:36:20 < Steffanx> Just like us :)
2011-08-18T23:36:21 < dekar_> Steffanx, police is probably watching me already - who cares
2011-08-18T23:36:31 < dekar_> they were investigating against me before
2011-08-18T23:36:37 < Laurenceb_> really?
2011-08-18T23:36:37 <+izua> lol, neat
2011-08-18T23:36:38 < dekar_> still got some letter they sent me
2011-08-18T23:36:39 <+izua> what did you do
2011-08-18T23:36:39 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-18T23:36:42 < dekar_> dunno
2011-08-18T23:36:43 < Steffanx> Why dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T23:36:53 < Laurenceb_> what did the letter say?
2011-08-18T23:37:05 < Steffanx> I can probably help you to get in touch with the FBI dekar_
2011-08-18T23:37:10 < dekar_> industry computer sabotage etc
2011-08-18T23:37:14 < Steffanx> I have some 'secret' documents for you
2011-08-18T23:37:17 < Steffanx> From the AAFES
2011-08-18T23:37:19 < dekar_> up to 10 years in prison
2011-08-18T23:37:27 < Laurenceb_> ok so you are a 1337 haxor?
2011-08-18T23:37:33 < Steffanx> What did you do mr dekar_ ?
2011-08-18T23:37:33 < dekar_> Laurenceb, dunno
2011-08-18T23:37:42 < dekar_> I'd be stupid to say anything but dunno
2011-08-18T23:37:50 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-08-18T23:37:50 < Steffanx> Yes you know :P
2011-08-18T23:38:03 -!- Laurenceb_ is now known as the_fbi
2011-08-18T23:38:08 < dekar_> whatever they think I did, they don't seem to have evidence
2011-08-18T23:38:11 < the_fbi> what did you way?
2011-08-18T23:38:15 < the_fbi> *say
2011-08-18T23:38:28 < dekar_> didn't get any letter over the last 2 years
2011-08-18T23:38:34 < dekar_> so I guess they dropped it
2011-08-18T23:38:40  * the_fbi prepares waterboarding
2011-08-18T23:38:44 < Steffanx> Was it is serious business or 'just script kiddying'?
2011-08-18T23:38:49 < dekar_> dunno
2011-08-18T23:38:53 < Steffanx> Yes you know
2011-08-18T23:38:58 < the_fbi> hes not going to tell us
2011-08-18T23:39:02 < Steffanx> He will
2011-08-18T23:39:08 -!- the_fbi is now known as Laurenceb_
2011-08-18T23:39:09 < dekar_> Steffanx, I legally hack stuff these days, and get paid to do so
2011-08-18T23:39:15 < dekar_> I am fine with that
2011-08-18T23:39:19 < Steffanx> Hack me hack me :)
2011-08-18T23:39:29 < dekar_> meh :/
2011-08-18T23:39:42 < dekar_> I hack transceivers mostly :)
2011-08-18T23:39:49 < Steffanx> RF transcivers?
2011-08-18T23:39:54 < Steffanx> You hacked my RF module!!
2011-08-18T23:39:56 < dekar_> optical transceivers
2011-08-18T23:39:59 < dekar_> :P
2011-08-18T23:40:10 < Steffanx> How well are you reverse engineering skills?
2011-08-18T23:40:20 < Steffanx> *good
2011-08-18T23:40:43 < dekar_> dunno? :)
2011-08-18T23:40:48 < Steffanx> Come on..
2011-08-18T23:41:00 < Steffanx> Can you do it or can't you do it?
2011-08-18T23:41:10 < dekar_> seriously, what do you wanna know? I started cracking apps when I was like 16
2011-08-18T23:41:15 < dekar_> stopped doing that a while ago
2011-08-18T23:41:29 < dekar_> I started this successful wc3 hack related forum
2011-08-18T23:41:39 < dekar_> stopped doing that soon after I started it
2011-08-18T23:42:07 < Steffanx> aah
2011-08-18T23:42:18 < Steffanx> You could've been rich by now
2011-08-18T23:42:30 < dekar_> ads earned me like 3k€ I guess ;)
2011-08-18T23:42:37 <+izua> http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7637
2011-08-18T23:43:07 < Steffanx> Hehe izua
2011-08-18T23:43:07 < dekar_> a while ago I did some hacker contest
2011-08-18T23:43:09 < Steffanx> SOO true
2011-08-18T23:43:28 < dekar_> found some creative ways to intrude
2011-08-18T23:43:51 < dekar_> like spoofing dns resolution packages the server receives
2011-08-18T23:43:55 < Steffanx> I wouldn't even know where to start :)
2011-08-18T23:44:13 < dekar_> I found three attack vectors I think
2011-08-18T23:44:33 < Steffanx> Time to go to blackhat?
2011-08-18T23:44:38 < dekar_> those guys had that contest: http://www.cased.de/
2011-08-18T23:45:14 < dekar_> the other attacks were mostly boring, like XSS
2011-08-18T23:45:21 < dekar_> and I hate web stuff
2011-08-18T23:45:47 < dekar_> izua, I used netcat to spoof the dns responses btw :)
2011-08-18T23:46:13 < dekar_> that hack was pretty funny since the server was resolving your hostname to check whether you're from their internal network or external
2011-08-18T23:46:38 < dekar_> and I changed the response they got from the google servers (8.8.8.8) to "localhost"
2011-08-18T23:46:52 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T23:46:54 <+izua> neat
2011-08-18T23:46:58 < dekar_> resulting in the whole thing opening up for every one since every host showed as localhost to the server
2011-08-18T23:47:16 < dekar_> it was some test whether you're worthy to sign up for that hacker contest
2011-08-18T23:47:24 < dekar_> and a friend signed up while I ran the attack
2011-08-18T23:47:28 <+izua> lol
2011-08-18T23:47:28 < dekar_> he didn't do anything XD
2011-08-18T23:47:38 <+izua> what were the challenges
2011-08-18T23:48:05 < dekar_> stuff like that
2011-08-18T23:48:10 < dekar_> networking related
2011-08-18T23:48:33 < dekar_> well there were some attacks against a printer
2011-08-18T23:48:42 < dekar_> Steffanx, so what do you say is my skill level?
2011-08-18T23:48:58 < dekar_> I guess I know some stuff, but I am not that uber skilled imo
2011-08-18T23:49:13 < dekar_> I don't dive that deep into it, I like knowing the basics about many things
2011-08-18T23:49:48 < dekar_> I never really got into cracking for example, never tried to beat code virtualization etc for example
2011-08-18T23:49:59 < dekar_> I just did basic stuff
2011-08-18T23:50:23 < dekar_> last thing I cracked was ultra edit for linux and OSX since I didn't see any release
2011-08-18T23:50:30 < dekar_> after doing that I realized it sucked
2011-08-18T23:50:35 < dekar_> so I never even used it XD
2011-08-18T23:51:05 <+izua> i hear linux has some pretty neat editors
2011-08-18T23:51:16 < dekar_> I use Qt Creator mostly
2011-08-18T23:51:20 < dekar_> and Eclipse :P
2011-08-18T23:52:17 < dekar_> izua, there was one other guy who also found the dns spoofing vector btw - out of like 20 who managed to break in
2011-08-18T23:52:47 < dekar_> that guy was really into cryptology O.o
2011-08-18T23:53:45 < dekar_> pretty cool, I don't know many people who like crypto and he was really deep into it
2011-08-18T23:53:58 < dekar_> he also was vegan O.o
2011-08-18T23:54:20 <+izua> i can't NOT eat meat
2011-08-18T23:54:27 <+izua> it's like
2011-08-18T23:54:28 < dekar_> me too
2011-08-18T23:54:32 <+izua> humans are designed to eat meat
2011-08-18T23:54:43 < dekar_> we are
2011-08-18T23:54:44 <+izua> probably much more than are designed to process rabbit food
2011-08-18T23:54:54 <+izua> so why the hell should i not eat meat?
2011-08-18T23:55:05 <+izua> fuck ethics
2011-08-18T23:55:15 <+izua> vegans say they love nature et al
2011-08-18T23:55:20 <+izua> and then they MURDER the fucking plants
2011-08-18T23:55:21 < dekar_> he said he wanted to loose some weight and turning vegetarian didn't work for him XD
2011-08-18T23:56:14 < dekar_> I know some other guy who is vegan for ethics though
2011-08-18T23:56:48 <+izua> i do like nature et al
2011-08-18T23:57:05 < dekar_> I like money
2011-08-18T23:57:15 <+izua> i try to hike on a regular basis, i sometimes do survival with some friends, but seriously
2011-08-18T23:57:22 <+izua> if i'm designed to be fueled by dead animals
2011-08-18T23:57:35 <+izua> why should i eat only dead plants instead
2011-08-18T23:57:51 < dekar_> I actually like vegetables most of the time
2011-08-18T23:57:55 < dekar_> but I also like meat a lot
2011-08-18T23:58:08 < dekar_> I eat salad though, I actually like it :)
2011-08-18T23:58:24 <+izua> salads are ok i guess :P
2011-08-18T23:58:29 <+izua> can't say i _like_ them
2011-08-18T23:58:31 < dekar_> I basically like most of the food, not picky at all
2011-08-18T23:58:53 < dekar_> well you can combine salad with meat - like adding tuna :)
2011-08-18T23:58:53 <+izua> but the fact that a rabbit/deer/etc can process much more energy from a salad compared to your average human
2011-08-18T23:59:06 <+izua> makes me think i shouldn't have salad as my main meal etc
2011-08-18T23:59:19 < dekar_> izua, vegans would argument you should just have some more salad
2011-08-18T23:59:26 < dekar_> or eat starch based products
2011-08-18T23:59:47 <+izua> yeah, that works, or sliced chicken breast, like in the caesar's
2011-08-18T23:59:51 < dekar_> like rice, wheat or corn based things
--- Day changed Fri Aug 19 2011
2011-08-19T00:00:10 < dekar_> that soy stuff as well
2011-08-19T00:00:36 < dekar_> and at the end sugar also comes from plants - and we can digest sugar really well
2011-08-19T00:01:06 < dekar_> I hear what vegans say, it's just that I lack the empathy they have
2011-08-19T00:01:21 < dekar_> I just don't care whether that fish I just caught dies once I slice it open
2011-08-19T00:01:40 <+izua> actually a lot of sugar is refined with cattle bones
2011-08-19T00:01:51 < dekar_> izua, I don't think so
2011-08-19T00:02:00 < dekar_> how would they do that?
2011-08-19T00:02:15 < dekar_> oh you mean gelatin?
2011-08-19T00:02:21 <+izua> some neat filtering
2011-08-19T00:02:23 < dekar_> they use that for juices etc as well
2011-08-19T00:02:24 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-19T00:02:31 <+izua> neah, not gelatins
2011-08-19T00:02:48 <+izua> they use some bone byproducts, with some fancy dunno-how processing, to make filters for raw sugars
2011-08-19T00:02:53 < dekar_> fruit juices have some filters which are coated with gelatin I read
2011-08-19T00:03:17 <+izua> i don't care anyway :P
2011-08-19T00:03:32 < dekar_> vegans do, I don't as well :)
2011-08-19T00:03:40 <+izua> ever noticed omnivorous support groups?
2011-08-19T00:03:42 < dekar_> I know a vegan though, so I know how they think
2011-08-19T00:03:52 < dekar_> why would you need one?
2011-08-19T00:03:59 <+izua> i did notice them existing for vegans and vegetarians though :P
2011-08-19T00:04:01 <+izua> exactly my point.
2011-08-19T00:04:09 < dekar_> well being vegan sucks
2011-08-19T00:04:13 <+izua> you need a support group to not eat meat or animal byproducts
2011-08-19T00:04:19 <+izua> i choose to simply eat meat. fuck your logic ._.
2011-08-19T00:04:34 < dekar_> getting food is soooo inconvenient for them
2011-08-19T00:04:41 < dekar_> barely any fast food
2011-08-19T00:04:47 < dekar_> they can get like fries
2011-08-19T00:04:49 < dekar_> and fries
2011-08-19T00:04:51 < dekar_> and salad
2011-08-19T00:04:57 < dekar_> and fries
2011-08-19T00:05:04 < dekar_> uhm and pizza without cheese
2011-08-19T00:05:12 < dekar_> and salad ofc
2011-08-19T00:05:25 <+izua> http://api.ning.com/files/m1FL*rlKeI3mxBSXvUIu4ohLCxN6GtsXmspaH4og9oVN-iXI44X*54TAJiFaoT1HZyYIxV76cdjcgJ--i-swb69dcdPZ8M4f/NoSuchThingAsAVegan.jpg
2011-08-19T00:05:28 <+izua> look what i found :D
2011-08-19T00:05:31 <+izua> cattle byproducts
2011-08-19T00:05:42 <+izua> and don't forget salad
2011-08-19T00:05:46 < dekar_> izua, they know that as well
2011-08-19T00:05:51 <+izua> man even fries taste like crap
2011-08-19T00:05:54 < dekar_> they just try to minimize it
2011-08-19T00:06:00 <+izua> i use cheese shavings on my fries
2011-08-19T00:06:06 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-19T00:06:14 <+izua> drink like half a liter of milk every morning
2011-08-19T00:06:21 <+izua> would probably make a vegetarian cringe
2011-08-19T00:06:30 < dekar_> living without milk and egg is so hard, it's basically everywhere
2011-08-19T00:06:38 <+izua> myeah
2011-08-19T00:06:40 <+izua> and that's not all
2011-08-19T00:06:42 <+izua> there's also
2011-08-19T00:06:42 < dekar_> I really cbf asking about that etc
2011-08-19T00:06:42 <+izua> FISH
2011-08-19T00:06:53 < dekar_> you can easily avoid fish
2011-08-19T00:06:57 < dekar_> many people do that
2011-08-19T00:06:59 <+izua> BUT WHYYYYY
2011-08-19T00:07:01 <+izua> fish is fucking good
2011-08-19T00:07:18 < dekar_> I recently was cooking thai curry with shrips knowing many of my co-workers wouldn't eat shrimp :D
2011-08-19T00:07:25 < dekar_> (more left for me)
2011-08-19T00:07:30 <+izua> ah
2011-08-19T00:07:31 <+izua> you cook?
2011-08-19T00:07:34 < dekar_> sometimes
2011-08-19T00:07:52 <+izua> how can you not have a girlfriend then ._.
2011-08-19T00:08:06 < dekar_> haha, right girls love when you cook
2011-08-19T00:08:17 <+izua> heh
2011-08-19T00:08:22 < dekar_> one of my female co workers was really amazed by my food
2011-08-19T00:08:30 <+izua> i guess it takes off the load of "now i have to cook more"
2011-08-19T00:08:31 < dekar_> she kept telling me over and over how awesome it was
2011-08-19T00:08:46 <+izua> she kept hitting on you etc, and you ran away crying? :P
2011-08-19T00:08:48 < dekar_> was actually really funny, everyone at the company was imitating it (in a nice way)
2011-08-19T00:09:11 <+izua> eh, so take your chance :P
2011-08-19T00:09:55 < dekar_> she's not my type, she also has a huge scar in the face, though I probably wouldn't mind that too much
2011-08-19T00:10:00 < dekar_> maybe a bit XD
2011-08-19T00:11:05 <+izua> http://cdn.imgfave.com/image_cache/1304585904535517.jpeg
2011-08-19T00:11:26 <+izua> tech chicks are hard to come by :P
2011-08-19T00:11:34 <+izua> and when they are, they rarely look like chicks
2011-08-19T00:11:58 < dekar_> you ever had any thai curry? http://www.thai-eyes.com/wp-content/gallery/thailand-1/red-thai-coconut-curry.jpg
2011-08-19T00:12:07 <+izua> be more like that $TEWMAC guy
2011-08-19T00:12:12 <+izua> he got a redneck and an asian preggers
2011-08-19T00:12:16 <+izua> and probably that wolf too.
2011-08-19T00:12:31 < dekar_> she is kinda cute I guess, small asian and studies law
2011-08-19T00:12:33 <+izua> no, but i like shrimp :D
2011-08-19T00:12:43 < dekar_> izua, any form of thai curry is epic
2011-08-19T00:12:50 < dekar_> doesn't matter which meat you pic
2011-08-19T00:12:54 < dekar_> *pick
2011-08-19T00:13:05 < dekar_> you can use chicken, pork, beef, seafood
2011-08-19T00:13:10 < dekar_> anything
2011-08-19T00:13:14 < dekar_> epic every time
2011-08-19T00:13:23 <+izua> ingedients?
2011-08-19T00:13:43 < dekar_> coconut milk and thai curry paste (there are different colors, I like red)
2011-08-19T00:13:50 < dekar_> any vegetables you like
2011-08-19T00:13:57  * izua tends to stick to the occidental/local cuisine
2011-08-19T00:13:58 < dekar_> I totally love eggplant so I always use that
2011-08-19T00:14:16 < dekar_> I don't :P
2011-08-19T00:14:21 <+izua> oh lol, curry paste
2011-08-19T00:14:33 <+izua> isn't that like cheating?
2011-08-19T00:14:52 <+izua> like using premade pizza dough or packed soup or w/e :P
2011-08-19T00:15:07 < dekar_> izua, I guess
2011-08-19T00:15:11 < dekar_> people love it though
2011-08-19T00:15:14 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-19T00:15:16 <+izua> hm
2011-08-19T00:15:23 < dekar_> I love it as well
2011-08-19T00:15:23 <+izua> sounds spicy
2011-08-19T00:15:26 < dekar_> totally
2011-08-19T00:15:27  * izua loves spicy stuff
2011-08-19T00:15:29 < dekar_> I love spicy
2011-08-19T00:15:37 < dekar_> that girl also loves spicy
2011-08-19T00:15:49 < dekar_> she's from taiwan I think
2011-08-19T00:15:56 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T00:16:13 <+izua> neat, oriental chick!
2011-08-19T00:16:34 <+izua> i can't eat a lot of spicy stuff tho :/
2011-08-19T00:16:39 < dekar_> I can
2011-08-19T00:16:49 < dekar_> and I do
2011-08-19T00:17:00 <+izua> ah, not that i can't
2011-08-19T00:17:13 <+izua> i used to eat spicy sauce spread over bread, as butter
2011-08-19T00:17:16 < dekar_> I got this huge glass of pickled jalapenos at my refrigerator
2011-08-19T00:17:37 <+izua> i have sebhorreic dermatitis and it seems to get much worse when i eat spicy
2011-08-19T00:17:49 <+izua> otherwise it's rather manageable but still
2011-08-19T00:17:50 < dekar_> that sucks
2011-08-19T00:17:58 <+izua> myeah :/
2011-08-19T00:18:17 <+izua> still, it could be worse, like psoriasis
2011-08-19T00:18:24 < dekar_> didn't know that could be related to spicy food
2011-08-19T00:18:26 <+izua> that shit is horrible when you eat spicy
2011-08-19T00:18:36 <+izua> i didn't know either
2011-08-19T00:19:10 < dekar_> izua, I actually have psoriasis and eating spicy stuff doesn't matter
2011-08-19T00:19:26 < dekar_> I barely have problems with it anyway, but it somehow is in my genes
2011-08-19T00:19:39 <+izua> really? neat, i guess
2011-08-19T00:19:45 <+izua> i have a friend who has a rather acute case
2011-08-19T00:19:46 < dekar_> I once had a huge outbreak at my upper body, but I haven't had any problems in year
2011-08-19T00:19:49 < dekar_> *years
2011-08-19T00:19:56 <+izua> daily treatments, etc.
2011-08-19T00:20:03 <+izua> if he even gets close to stuff that smells spicy, he gets itchy
2011-08-19T00:20:06 < dekar_> yeah I am glad I don't have a problem with that anymore
2011-08-19T00:20:31 <+izua> hurr durr, eugenics.
2011-08-19T00:20:32 < dekar_> my grandma also has it, I guess that's where the genes come from -.-
2011-08-19T00:20:39 <+izua> this should have been filtered out ages ago :P
2011-08-19T00:21:02 < dekar_> I don't really feel like getting filtered out
2011-08-19T00:21:15 <+izua> well, not you or me, per se
2011-08-19T00:21:27 <+izua> just the actual bad traits :P
2011-08-19T00:21:34 < dekar_> izua, I don't enjoy cooking too much btw, I only cook like once or twice a month
2011-08-19T00:21:48 < Laurenceb_> only one solution, diy personal death camp
2011-08-19T00:21:55 < Laurenceb_> thatll sort your genes
2011-08-19T00:21:58 < dekar_> it's better to cook together ofc, but cleaning stuff up sucks
2011-08-19T00:22:09 < Laurenceb_> izua clearly likes that sort of stuff
2011-08-19T00:22:09 <+izua> Laurenceb_: darwin awards!
2011-08-19T00:22:23 <+izua> death camp?
2011-08-19T00:22:25 <+izua> how can you say that
2011-08-19T00:22:28 <+izua> dekar is the nazi here
2011-08-19T00:22:38 < dekar_> I like it better, since I am german and eugenics are a german tradition!
2011-08-19T00:22:45 <+izua> i'm more like concentration camp
2011-08-19T00:22:54 <+izua> people being forced into labor
2011-08-19T00:22:58 <+izua> and sterilised
2011-08-19T00:23:03 <+izua> like how the danube channel was built
2011-08-19T00:23:13 < dekar_> I like that as well, wanna found the german-romanian-reich?
2011-08-19T00:23:32 < Laurenceb_> yeah but izua doesnt like freedom of speech
2011-08-19T00:23:32 <+izua> sounds neat
2011-08-19T00:23:52 < dekar_> Laurenceb, you better shut up and work now :P
2011-08-19T00:23:57 < Laurenceb_>  /flames
2011-08-19T00:23:59 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-19T00:24:08 <+izua> but then some guys will become a splinter cell and have a new armed inssurection
2011-08-19T00:24:16 <+izua> well you know, again.
2011-08-19T00:24:36 <+izua> hurr durr we like the ruskys more
2011-08-19T00:24:47 < dekar_> we'll just pay them with jewish gold teeth
2011-08-19T00:25:00 <+izua> freedom of speech is good i guess
2011-08-19T00:25:08 < dekar_> for _us_ ofc
2011-08-19T00:25:16 <+izua> yeah, that's the problem.
2011-08-19T00:25:19 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-19T00:25:32 <+izua> and as long as retards don't go on tv
2011-08-19T00:26:02 < dekar_> Laurenceb, I hope you know we're (at least for my part) kiddin' I am one of the most tolerant people you'll ever meet
2011-08-19T00:27:03 <+izua> bah
2011-08-19T00:27:10 <+izua> at least stuff's probably saner over there
2011-08-19T00:27:20 <+izua> when i'm out with my gf
2011-08-19T00:27:33 < dekar_> over where?
2011-08-19T00:27:35 <+izua> and there's like a march of overweight men wearing tangas, known as gay pride
2011-08-19T00:27:45 <+izua> or gangs of gyppos assaulting eachother
2011-08-19T00:27:48 <+izua> in plain street etc
2011-08-19T00:27:57 < dekar_> to each his own?
2011-08-19T00:27:58 <+izua> i start to shove it really hard to that tolerance thing
2011-08-19T00:29:13 < Laurenceb_> izua: freedom of speech means you are free to take the piss out of gay pride
2011-08-19T00:29:25 < Laurenceb_> and gay pride are free to defend it :P
2011-08-19T00:29:48 < dekar_> izua, lesbians on the other hand should wear as little clothing as possible
2011-08-19T00:30:01 <+izua> no, freedom of speech means having your gay little pride march, but not participating into it if you're 50 and overweight.
2011-08-19T00:30:11 < dekar_> izua, double standard ftw :D
2011-08-19T00:30:13 <+izua> actually that's more like common sense, but if you don't have that, why have freedom of speech?
2011-08-19T00:30:22 <+izua> you ever heard anyone call lesbians 'gay'
2011-08-19T00:30:44 < dekar_> I guess, I still have a double standard when it comes to that :)
2011-08-19T00:30:47 <+izua> or do you think of lesbians when you hear the term gay :P
2011-08-19T00:31:03 <+izua> it's not really a double standard
2011-08-19T00:31:05 <+izua> i like women
2011-08-19T00:31:08 < dekar_> me too
2011-08-19T00:31:25 <+izua> so any sort of woman out there should have as little clothing as possible
2011-08-19T00:31:27 < dekar_> so how isn't that a double standard? it's sexism at its best!
2011-08-19T00:31:32 <+izua> if she's not a whale or something
2011-08-19T00:31:39 <+izua> exactly.
2011-08-19T00:31:41 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-19T00:31:51 <+izua> the fact that she likes other women is merely a new discussion topic :P
2011-08-19T00:32:01 < dekar_> I am still tolerant, just more tolerant to the female sex :D
2011-08-19T00:32:24 < dekar_> all animals are equal... :P
2011-08-19T00:33:03 < dekar_> izua, did you pick up that animal farm reference? O.o
2011-08-19T00:33:09 < dekar_> just wondering :)
2011-08-19T00:33:13 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T00:33:18 <+izua> but some are more equal than others?
2011-08-19T00:33:20 <+izua> no, not really :P
2011-08-19T01:05:26 < Steffanx> I wanted to know you reverse engineer skills dekar_
2011-08-19T01:05:38 < Steffanx> because you have to reverse engineer the stm32 discovery bootloader for me :P
2011-08-19T01:05:55 < Steffanx> It seems to do AES though, so that sucks
2011-08-19T01:06:30 < Steffanx> There is a small project from someone who used the official DLL, but he didn't manage to make it fully functional
2011-08-19T01:06:41 < Steffanx> And it sucks too, because it's win only
2011-08-19T01:07:03 <+izua> the usb one?
2011-08-19T01:07:10 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-08-19T01:07:11 <+izua> DFuSe or whatever that's called?
2011-08-19T01:07:23 < Steffanx> dunno
2011-08-19T01:07:27 <+izua> isn't DFu a usb standard? :/
2011-08-19T01:07:59 < Steffanx> afaik it's a proprietary bootloader
2011-08-19T01:08:14 < dekar_> Steffanx, why would I have to do that? What's to gain?
2011-08-19T01:08:47 < dekar_> Besides didn't we read at the ST forums that it doesn't protect from readout when you run code via jtag from ram?
2011-08-19T01:08:50 < Steffanx> endless fame
2011-08-19T01:08:57 < dekar_> endless - sure
2011-08-19T01:09:01 <+izua> isn't the usb bootloader, this? http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/APPLICATION_NOTE/CD00264379.pdf
2011-08-19T01:09:02 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-19T01:09:21 < Steffanx> afaik it isn't izua
2011-08-19T01:09:26 < dekar_> Steffanx, the Xilins encryption has been broken lately, how many people even heard of that?
2011-08-19T01:09:28 < Steffanx> It's the bootloader of the st-link
2011-08-19T01:09:39 < Steffanx> I heard of that dekar_
2011-08-19T01:09:46 < Steffanx> You mentioned it before :P
2011-08-19T01:09:55 < dekar_> I'd rather hack some game - gains you a bazillion more fame
2011-08-19T01:10:16 < dekar_> I actually met people in RL who knew my wc3 forum
2011-08-19T01:10:35 < Steffanx> wc3 is game related, so that doesn't count
2011-08-19T01:11:06 < dekar_> w/e - not interested :P
2011-08-19T01:11:33 < Steffanx> You'll get 10$ :P
2011-08-19T01:11:35 <+izua> Steffanx: just hook to the driver
2011-08-19T01:11:44 < Steffanx> That saves me $2 :P
2011-08-19T01:11:48 <+izua> or to whatever windows uses to write usb packets to the actual hardware
2011-08-19T01:12:13 < Steffanx> The DLL should be usable
2011-08-19T01:12:34 < Steffanx> I just don't have the skills to do anything useful with it
2011-08-19T01:12:56 < Steffanx> I probably have to replace the dll with my own and log what happens
2011-08-19T01:13:10 < dekar_> not moving a finger for $10
2011-08-19T01:13:16 <+izua> i had some environment made to make dll injection and hooking
2011-08-19T01:13:21 <+izua> if you remind me tommorow, i'll look for it
2011-08-19T01:13:58 <+izua> well, environment, basically a template dll which hacks openFile, writeFile and ReadFile,and a separate loader, which replaces the calls to the system functions to the ones in my DLL
2011-08-19T01:14:00 < Steffanx> Should be easy, i just never really worked with dll's
2011-08-19T01:14:15 < Steffanx> I only worked with it using wxwidgets
2011-08-19T01:15:18 < dekar_> I once wrote this logger for wc3 in FASM - it ran the game in debug mode and logged all calls to one particular function
2011-08-19T01:15:32 < dekar_> back then when I still used windows...
2011-08-19T01:16:56 < dekar_> there were quite a lot epic hacks I did - some CRC collision - blizzard even patched it after we released it
2011-08-19T01:16:59 < Steffanx> I have a song for you dekar_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s
2011-08-19T01:17:14 < dekar_> Unfortunately, this UMG-music-content is not available in Germany because GEMA has not granted the respective music publishing rights.
2011-08-19T01:17:25 < Steffanx> @#$%ˆ& Germany
2011-08-19T01:17:45 < Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP0sC_s5EfE ?
2011-08-19T01:17:51 <+izua> oh look
2011-08-19T01:17:52 <+izua> i can play it
2011-08-19T01:17:55 < dekar_> what was it? rick roll?
2011-08-19T01:18:01 < Steffanx> No, no rickroll
2011-08-19T01:18:09 < Steffanx> It's related to this conversation
2011-08-19T01:20:23 < Steffanx> I don't like meme's like that dekar_ so i don't use them :)
2011-08-19T01:22:31 < dekar_> I actually like the song
2011-08-19T01:23:50 < dekar_> Steffanx, you don't like memes? not even boxxy?
2011-08-19T01:24:28 < Steffanx> Uhm?!
2011-08-19T01:24:28 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-19T01:24:39 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-19T01:24:43 <+izua> Steffanx: check out this site: www.encyclopediadramatica.ch
2011-08-19T01:24:55 < dekar_> izua, you must like her - you're into that /b/ stuff, aren't you?
2011-08-19T01:25:20 <+izua> uh, not really into it, i just find memes funny
2011-08-19T01:25:29 < Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5jeOMkzXKA .. seriously why on earth do you record that?
2011-08-19T01:25:32 < Steffanx> And edit it
2011-08-19T01:26:22 <+izua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEcj2xi9Ctc#t=0m22s
2011-08-19T01:26:25 < Steffanx> It's funnier than that weird girl though
2011-08-19T01:26:26 <+izua> here you go, this one is better
2011-08-19T01:27:26 < Steffanx> Anyway, i have another good one.. very good for today
2011-08-19T01:28:02 < Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzNzylF33HM
2011-08-19T01:28:34 <+izua> OH SHIT
2011-08-19T01:28:43 < Steffanx> (don't read the title and think it's our friend 'rebecca black'
2011-08-19T01:28:45 < Steffanx> )
2011-08-19T01:29:06 <+izua> here you go
2011-08-19T01:29:06 <+izua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUntx0pe_qI
2011-08-19T01:29:15 < Steffanx> No, not that one
2011-08-19T01:29:49 < dekar_> rebecca is awesome, her new song even has like 20% likes
2011-08-19T01:30:07 < dekar_> if she keeps getting better at that rate... :D
2011-08-19T01:30:19 < Steffanx> Ah, that song is just 'over hyped'
2011-08-19T01:30:28 < Steffanx> There are songs that are worse
2011-08-19T01:30:39 <+izua> TheSlapOfGod: You know the Oslo shooter guy?
2011-08-19T01:30:39 <+izua> TheSlapOfGod: Someone was asking what song he was playing on his ipod when he was at the camp shooting people
2011-08-19T01:30:42 <+izua> TheSlapOfGod: And the FIRST GOD DAMN RESPONSE was "Let the bodies hit the FJORD"
2011-08-19T01:31:05 < Steffanx> :S
2011-08-19T01:31:18 < dekar_> didn't get the reference
2011-08-19T01:31:33 < dekar_> is that an actual song?
2011-08-19T01:31:42 < dekar_> I know what a fjord is though
2011-08-19T01:31:44 < Steffanx> et the bodies hit the floor probably
2011-08-19T01:31:50 < dekar_> ah
2011-08-19T01:32:07 < Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-sMJZTYf0
2011-08-19T01:32:17 < Steffanx> At least i guess that's the one
2011-08-19T01:32:45 < dekar_> k, heard that before
2011-08-19T01:33:39 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> i have my mincraft log viewable as a webpage
2011-08-19T01:33:39 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> and someone did html injection
2011-08-19T01:33:39 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> by talking inside minecraft
2011-08-19T01:33:39 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> and made it redirect to meatspin
2011-08-19T01:33:39 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> when i find out who it was
2011-08-19T01:33:42 <+izua> <Lt_Tinkle> i shall make them an op
2011-08-19T01:34:06 < dekar_> lol what a noob
2011-08-19T01:34:18 < dekar_> besides that is called permanent XSS and not html injection
2011-08-19T01:34:24 < Laurenceb_> stm32 seems to be turning into /b/
2011-08-19T01:34:33 <+izua> well
2011-08-19T01:34:36 <+izua> it's bash
2011-08-19T01:34:42 <+izua> bash is like, completely different from /b/
2011-08-19T01:34:56 <+izua> irc quotes, mostly.
2011-08-19T01:36:01 < dekar_> izua, that's why I hate web stuff so much, every n00b does it and they all fail
2011-08-19T01:36:15 <+izua> myeah
2011-08-19T01:36:23 <+izua> the web has become a cesspool of javascript :/
2011-08-19T01:36:32 < dekar_> a simple htmlspecialchars() would have fixed it
2011-08-19T01:36:54 <+izua> why learn that when you can learn jquery and graphic effects
2011-08-19T01:36:55 < Steffanx> htmlentities ftw
2011-08-19T01:37:04 < dekar_> I hate really dislike that stuff, but I know how to make it secure
2011-08-19T01:37:28 <+izua> it's not insanely hard either
2011-08-19T01:37:43 <+izua> escape user data before displaying it, and before dumping it into mysql ._.
2011-08-19T01:37:45 < Steffanx> Minecraft is a silly game anyway
2011-08-19T01:37:56 <+izua> you should try dwarf fortress :P
2011-08-19T01:38:03 < Steffanx> And the one who wrote that html is a genius
2011-08-19T01:39:05 < dekar_> not so genius imo
2011-08-19T01:39:22 < Steffanx> Funny though :P
2011-08-19T01:40:21 < Steffanx> I mean, how stupid can you be to show minecraft logs on a website
2011-08-19T01:40:21 <+izua> www.bash.org, etc :P
2011-08-19T01:40:26 < dekar_> Steffanx, that hacker contest test I told you about, one of the ways I found was adding XSS to the contact form, so the service guy who reads it signs you up from the internal network
2011-08-19T01:41:17 < Steffanx> :)
2011-08-19T01:41:25 < Steffanx> You know blackboard?
2011-08-19T01:41:31 < dekar_> nope
2011-08-19T01:41:39 < Steffanx> Lucky for blackboard
2011-08-19T01:41:49 < Steffanx> You would probably have destroyed it :P
2011-08-19T01:42:05 < Steffanx> You do know moodle?
2011-08-19T01:42:17 < Steffanx> blackboard is similar but not opensource
2011-08-19T01:42:19 < dekar_> yeah I know moodle
2011-08-19T01:42:23 <+izua> they're some classroom shizzle
2011-08-19T01:42:41 <+izua> sort of like radmin or ultravnc for teachers :P
2011-08-19T01:43:09 <+izua> well, with more of a teaching/information sharing approach
2011-08-19T01:43:10 <+izua> but still.
2011-08-19T01:43:41 < dekar_> I hacked the whole network of two universities btw - redirected all traffic using ARP poisoning
2011-08-19T01:43:48 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-19T01:43:57 < dekar_> one time I did that on wifi - so much incoming traffic XD
2011-08-19T01:44:07 < dekar_> it probably dropped like 95% of the packets
2011-08-19T01:44:18 < dekar_> I still logged like a bazillion ICQ logins etc
2011-08-19T01:44:28 < Steffanx> ICQ?
2011-08-19T01:44:35 < dekar_> unencrypted data
2011-08-19T01:44:39 < Steffanx> Then it has to be millions of years ago
2011-08-19T01:44:48 < dekar_> like 2 years maybe
2011-08-19T01:44:58 < Steffanx> Or was Germany really into ICQ?
2011-08-19T01:45:08 < dekar_> some people use it
2011-08-19T01:45:15 < Steffanx> Here it was MSN
2011-08-19T01:45:17 < dekar_> same as msn I guess
2011-08-19T01:45:28 < Steffanx> Now it's more facebook (and a dutch version)
2011-08-19T01:45:52 < dekar_> still, unencrypted data sucks
2011-08-19T01:45:56 <+izua> ah
2011-08-19T01:45:56 < Steffanx> Seriously when I see how much time my sister spends on those sites… WTF
2011-08-19T01:45:59 < dekar_> should all be end to end encrypted
2011-08-19T01:46:00 <+izua> people here use y!
2011-08-19T01:46:04 <+izua> it's seriously huge and retarded
2011-08-19T01:46:12 < Steffanx> y! = yahoo shit?
2011-08-19T01:46:16 < dekar_> lol
2011-08-19T01:46:20 <+izua> a single window takes like 10M of ram and it has all sorts of crap you can't disable
2011-08-19T01:46:26 <+izua> small flash animations with annoying sounds
2011-08-19T01:46:33 < dekar_> use adium
2011-08-19T01:46:36 < dekar_> I like the duck
2011-08-19T01:46:37 <+izua> overall theming of an im window, ALSO WITH SOUNDS
2011-08-19T01:46:46 < Steffanx> You can't force people to use adium :)
2011-08-19T01:46:47 <+izua> well
2011-08-19T01:46:51 <+izua> non-yahoo clients are sucky
2011-08-19T01:46:59 <+izua> for the other users, notfor me
2011-08-19T01:46:59 < Steffanx> And Adium sucks
2011-08-19T01:47:02 < Steffanx> On OS X
2011-08-19T01:47:05 < dekar_> Steffanx, why?
2011-08-19T01:47:26 < Steffanx> For a weird reason, the adium window is on 'top'
2011-08-19T01:47:45 < dekar_> Steffanx, never had issues with adium
2011-08-19T01:47:47 < Steffanx> At least, the mouse position is captured by Adium, so it should contact information etc.
2011-08-19T01:47:51 <+izua> dekar_: oh, i know that duck
2011-08-19T01:47:53 < Steffanx> Even when i don't seen the window
2011-08-19T01:48:01 < Steffanx> *should = shows
2011-08-19T01:48:08 <+izua> that's erm.. bad?
2011-08-19T01:48:25  * izua is messing with drupal
2011-08-19T01:48:29 < Steffanx> (Sometimes i type words i don't really want to type… why? )
2011-08-19T01:48:39 < dekar_> Steffanx, I do that as well
2011-08-19T01:48:46 < dekar_> mostly similar words
2011-08-19T01:48:49 < Steffanx> It's weird
2011-08-19T01:48:51 <+izua> m-hm
2011-08-19T01:48:52 < dekar_> weird shit
2011-08-19T01:48:53 < Steffanx> It feels weird
2011-08-19T01:48:54 <+izua> it happens to me too
2011-08-19T01:48:59 <+izua> but it never happens in my native tongue :/
2011-08-19T01:49:06 < dekar_> same here
2011-08-19T01:49:07 < Steffanx> I don't even know it, until i read what i write
2011-08-19T01:49:09 < Steffanx> wrote
2011-08-19T01:49:15 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-19T01:49:16 < Steffanx> Same here izua :)
2011-08-19T01:49:28 < Steffanx> Ok, at least i know i'm not that weird at all
2011-08-19T01:49:29 < dekar_> seems to be normal then :D
2011-08-19T01:49:49 < dekar_> I lately got really annoyed by that as well, so funny you just brought it up
2011-08-19T01:49:50 <+izua> synapses failing?
2011-08-19T01:50:09 < dekar_> probably
2011-08-19T01:50:30 < dekar_> I sometimes fail to remember the german word for something and only remember the english one, that's fucked up as well
2011-08-19T01:50:51 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-19T01:51:19 < Steffanx> I don't really have to problem, just because my english (grammer) sucks balls
2011-08-19T01:51:29 < dekar_> ha
2011-08-19T01:51:33 < dekar_> to problem :D
2011-08-19T01:51:34 <+izua> y u no to problem
2011-08-19T01:52:09 < Steffanx> LO
2011-08-19T01:52:18 < Steffanx> *that
2011-08-19T01:52:36 < dekar_> oh btw, do you know the word "alleged"? (like in "alleged murder suspect" etc?) I told my boss to use that word and no one at the company knew it - I thought it was quite common O.o
2011-08-19T01:52:39 < Steffanx> I think i know when i start to type word i don't want to
2011-08-19T01:52:45 < Steffanx> It's when i tired :)
2011-08-19T01:52:51 < dekar_> yeah same for me
2011-08-19T01:53:21 < Vaati_> question
2011-08-19T01:53:31 <+izua> Vaati_: 42.
2011-08-19T01:53:32 < Vaati_> can the stm32 ... decode mp3s ?
2011-08-19T01:53:32 < dekar_> Vaati_, no native speakers allowed!
2011-08-19T01:53:33 < Steffanx> The English dictionary is way to large
2011-08-19T01:53:39 < dekar_> Vaati_, yeah
2011-08-19T01:53:40 <+izua> Vaati_: real time?
2011-08-19T01:53:43 < Vaati_> yes
2011-08-19T01:53:47 <+izua> probably, at a low enough bitrate
2011-08-19T01:53:53 < Steffanx> The F2 family?
2011-08-19T01:53:55 < dekar_> izua, even at 320kbit/s
2011-08-19T01:53:58 <+izua> ah?
2011-08-19T01:53:59 < dekar_> even the f1
2011-08-19T01:54:00 <+izua> got a lib?
2011-08-19T01:54:02 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-19T01:54:04 < Vaati_> ive got an f1
2011-08-19T01:54:06 < dekar_> even encoding
2011-08-19T01:54:07 < Steffanx> ffmpeg :P
2011-08-19T01:54:10 <+izua> did .. you actually get it to work?
2011-08-19T01:54:10 < Vaati_> srsly  no way
2011-08-19T01:54:12 < Vaati_> awesome
2011-08-19T01:54:12 < dekar_> also wma decoding
2011-08-19T01:54:19 < dekar_> izua, never tried it
2011-08-19T01:54:28 <+izua> i messeda bit with tremor (for vorbis/ogg) but i never got anything usable
2011-08-19T01:54:28 < Vaati_> lmao  cos ive got a 5 second bit of audio -- its almost 1MB  -_-
2011-08-19T01:54:32 < Vaati_> uncompressed pcm
2011-08-19T01:54:40 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-19T01:54:44 < Vaati_> epic failing
2011-08-19T01:54:48 <+izua> Vaati_: make it mono, reduce it to 8 bits vertical resolution
2011-08-19T01:54:50 < Steffanx> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATA_BRIEF/DM00024540.pdf ?
2011-08-19T01:54:50 < dekar_> use a SD card?
2011-08-19T01:54:54 < Vaati_> dekar_: exactly
2011-08-19T01:54:58 <+izua> if you don't need high pitch stuff, reduce it to 8KHz or so
2011-08-19T01:54:59 < Vaati_> im doing that either way
2011-08-19T01:55:03 < Steffanx> There you are izua
2011-08-19T01:55:07 < Steffanx> stm32 wrote it for you
2011-08-19T01:55:10 < Steffanx> *stm
2011-08-19T01:55:11 <+izua> ah
2011-08-19T01:55:11 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T01:55:12 <+izua> neat
2011-08-19T01:55:14 < Vaati_> ive also got myself a pcm3060 audio codec ..
2011-08-19T01:55:23 < Steffanx> And @ Vaati_
2011-08-19T01:55:23 <+izua> i like the part where i'm not doing a lot of work xD
2011-08-19T01:55:25 < Steffanx> See that pdf
2011-08-19T01:55:26 < Vaati_> so tonight im gonna make myself a musak playah
2011-08-19T01:55:31 < Vaati_> ok thanks Steffanx
2011-08-19T01:55:45 < Steffanx> Not sure on which stm32 it runs
2011-08-19T01:56:04 < dekar_> Vaati_, do you also have the problem that you sometimes pick the wrong words which are similar to the ones you actually wanted to write?
2011-08-19T01:56:14 < Vaati_> dekar_: not often
2011-08-19T01:56:15 < Steffanx> It's always hard to find things on their website
2011-08-19T01:56:23 < Vaati_> i am well versed in the ways of linguistics and speech
2011-08-19T01:56:47 <+izua> ah
2011-08-19T01:56:47 <+izua> neat
2011-08-19T01:56:49 <+izua> that's recent
2011-08-19T01:56:52 <+izua> 18 apr
2011-08-19T01:56:54 < Steffanx> You ever do that in German dekar_ ?
2011-08-19T01:57:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, nope, not that I remember
2011-08-19T01:57:11 <+izua> when i looked for this stuff, it was back in september 2010, when i was messing with the discovery board
2011-08-19T01:57:29 < Vaati_> oh no way thats cool
2011-08-19T01:57:34 < Vaati_> ive got myself a vl discovery
2011-08-19T01:57:34 < dekar_> Steffanx, well I guess I do - but really not that often
2011-08-19T01:57:39 < Vaati_> thanks Steffanx!
2011-08-19T01:57:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, just remembered doing it XD
2011-08-19T01:57:47 < Steffanx> Uhm, that one is quite slow Vaati_
2011-08-19T01:57:52 < Steffanx> Don't know if 24MHz is enough
2011-08-19T01:58:07 < Vaati_> yeah
2011-08-19T01:58:08 < dekar_> overclock it :D
2011-08-19T01:58:09 < Vaati_> hmm
2011-08-19T01:58:10 < Vaati_> maybe
2011-08-19T01:58:19 < Vaati_> i could whip out my cyclone IV fpga  xD
2011-08-19T01:58:21 < Vaati_> lawl
2011-08-19T01:58:26 <+izua> hmm.
2011-08-19T01:58:26 <+izua> The MP3 decoder library is not available for all
2011-08-19T01:58:27 <+izua> STM32 family members (see further)
2011-08-19T01:58:27 < Vaati_> that should do the trick
2011-08-19T01:58:36 < Steffanx> Now you have to find the source
2011-08-19T01:58:48 <+izua> Some royalties are due to the patent owner. For the MP3 decoder, STMicroelectronics
2011-08-19T01:58:52 <+izua> proposes to embed the royalties in the chip prices, in order to ease customers life, and to
2011-08-19T01:58:55 <+izua> leverage royalty costs on high volumes.
2011-08-19T01:58:56 < Steffanx> ARGH
2011-08-19T01:58:57 <+izua> In order to know the quantities of delivered ships, STMicroelectronics is therefore proposing
2011-08-19T01:59:00 <+izua> specific part numbers. Please refer to the product datasheets for more information, or
2011-08-19T01:59:03 <+izua> contact your local ST sales representative.
2011-08-19T01:59:07 < Steffanx> Fuck them
2011-08-19T01:59:22 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-19T01:59:28 <+izua> so you need to buy a lot of chips to get access to the lib?
2011-08-19T01:59:37 < dekar_> Vaati_, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/flexoptix/2010-04-18%2005.46.50.jpg
2011-08-19T01:59:48 < Vaati_> mp3 decoder is ~20mips
2011-08-19T02:00:10 < Steffanx> Did you really test all peripherals dekar_ ?
2011-08-19T02:00:19 < dekar_> Steffanx, never said I did
2011-08-19T02:00:23 < Vaati_> dekar_: whats that
2011-08-19T02:00:31 < dekar_> Vaati_, 128mhz :D
2011-08-19T02:00:34 < Steffanx> Nah, it was just a question dekar_
2011-08-19T02:00:40 < Vaati_> omgwtf
2011-08-19T02:00:48 <+izua> Vaati_: yeah
2011-08-19T02:00:51 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-19T02:00:53 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-22-22.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2011-08-19T02:00:53 < Vaati_> what chip ?
2011-08-19T02:00:53 <+izua> just pull the pll up to the max
2011-08-19T02:00:56 < Steffanx> 72->128 :)
2011-08-19T02:00:58 <+izua> the peripherals might cringe though
2011-08-19T02:01:01 < Vaati_> hahaha
2011-08-19T02:01:03 < dekar_> Vaati_, stm32f103
2011-08-19T02:01:06 < Vaati_> oooh that reminds me
2011-08-19T02:01:19 < Vaati_> ive got a handful (19 to be precise) stm arm7s somewhere ...
2011-08-19T02:01:24 < dekar_> Vaati_, I also did 136, but it started getting really weird
2011-08-19T02:01:36 < Vaati_> I wonder how fast those things are...
2011-08-19T02:01:57  * grummund unwittingly had a f103 running at 100MHz
2011-08-19T02:02:02 < Vaati_> hahhaa
2011-08-19T02:02:33 < grummund> 96MHz actually
2011-08-19T02:02:58 < Vaati_> ever heard of the parallax propeller chip ?
2011-08-19T02:03:05 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T02:03:07 < Vaati_> its 80mhz, not over clocked
2011-08-19T02:03:08 < Vaati_> but
2011-08-19T02:03:10 <+izua> that's expensive and rathe fail
2011-08-19T02:03:21 < grummund> hmm, no 108MHz actually
2011-08-19T02:03:23 < Steffanx> Just get yourself a vs1051 or similar Vaati_
2011-08-19T02:03:28 < Vaati_> it takes 25 instructions to write something to I2C
2011-08-19T02:03:29 < Steffanx> That's just a mp3 decoder chip
2011-08-19T02:03:30 < Vaati_> lols
2011-08-19T02:03:39 < Steffanx> +wma+ogg and more
2011-08-19T02:03:48 < Vaati_> yeah I found that whilst searching this afternoon
2011-08-19T02:03:55 < Vaati_> for mp3 decoders
2011-08-19T02:04:11 <+izua> Vaati_: what sort of audio data will you pump out?
2011-08-19T02:04:20 <+izua> is it like "WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH"
2011-08-19T02:04:25 <+izua> or something more complex, like a player?
2011-08-19T02:04:32 < Vaati_> well
2011-08-19T02:04:51 < Vaati_> im just learning, I suppose -- this isnt for a specific purpose, but I'd like to test out some stuffs with audio
2011-08-19T02:04:55 < Vaati_> basically
2011-08-19T02:04:57 < dekar_> Vaati_, izua Steffanx http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/APPLICATION_NOTE/CD00204907.pdf
2011-08-19T02:05:01 < Vaati_> an sd player
2011-08-19T02:05:13 <+izua> uuuuuh
2011-08-19T02:05:14 <+izua> speex!
2011-08-19T02:05:20 < Vaati_> what
2011-08-19T02:05:21 < Vaati_> ??
2011-08-19T02:05:29 <+izua> speex/ogg. open source mp3 replacement
2011-08-19T02:05:32 <+izua> which is better
2011-08-19T02:05:33 < dekar_> it's an open source codec optimized for voice
2011-08-19T02:05:38 < dekar_> ogg
2011-08-19T02:05:44 < dekar_> general purpose
2011-08-19T02:05:53 < dekar_> speex is optimized for voice only
2011-08-19T02:06:01 <+izua> uh, or that
2011-08-19T02:06:04 <+izua> i don't recall the whole suite
2011-08-19T02:06:14 <+izua> and ogg is the container?
2011-08-19T02:06:41 < Vaati_> hmmmmm
2011-08-19T02:06:59 < Vaati_> hows about flac ?  mwheheheheheh ...  can the stm32 withstand such nonsense ?
2011-08-19T02:07:35 < dekar_> Vaati_, at 120mhz I'd guess it does
2011-08-19T02:07:55 < dekar_> izua, I am pretty sure the mp3 lib was publically available before
2011-08-19T02:08:15 < Steffanx> It's the Spirit DSP thing
2011-08-19T02:08:31 < Vaati_> well for now what im gonna try to do is just read data from the sd card into a buffer and simply write that buffer data via I2C to my audio codec -- just to see if it works
2011-08-19T02:08:55 < Vaati_> though such simple data transfer between devices would be better for an fpga/cpld ...  whatevah
2011-08-19T02:09:02 < Steffanx> http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2010/09/28/49536/Free-audio-algorithms-for-STM32-microcontrollers.htm
2011-08-19T02:09:10 < Steffanx> It seems stm32 changed that policy
2011-08-19T02:09:17 < Steffanx> Although the audio engine is free, there is a no-charge license to be entered in to and "license charge and royalties related to the use of MP3 and WMA technologies in the final product are not included and are due by the user to the appropriate entities,"
2011-08-19T02:10:07 < dekar_> I once ripped the st size to my hdd - lemme see if I got a copy
2011-08-19T02:10:17 < Steffanx> *site :)
2011-08-19T02:10:21 < Vaati_> haha
2011-08-19T02:10:23 < Vaati_> epic
2011-08-19T02:11:41 < dekar_> Steffanx, that was just the wrong key :P
2011-08-19T02:11:59 < Steffanx> What kind of keyboard do you have?
2011-08-19T02:12:03 < dekar_> Vaati_, sad news - they actually didn't offer the download back then as well
2011-08-19T02:12:07 < dekar_> Steffanx, German one
2011-08-19T02:12:13 < dekar_> qwertz
2011-08-19T02:12:15 < Steffanx> And what's german?
2011-08-19T02:12:18 < Steffanx> Ah :P
2011-08-19T02:12:29 < Steffanx> Acceptable
2011-08-19T02:13:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, I know how it worked back then - there was some page asking you to accept some EULA
2011-08-19T02:13:12 < dekar_> I remember downloading the mp3 decoder
2011-08-19T02:13:24 < Steffanx> http://www.st.com/mcu/inchtml-pages-stm32_audio.html that was the page
2011-08-19T02:13:25 < dekar_> same for the TCP stack
2011-08-19T02:13:37 <+izua> the tcp stack is licensed now?
2011-08-19T02:13:48 < dekar_> dunno
2011-08-19T02:13:53 < dekar_> but it also had some eula page
2011-08-19T02:14:39 < Steffanx> Once on the www is forever on the www
2011-08-19T02:14:43 < Steffanx> So we should be able to find it
2011-08-19T02:14:49 < Steffanx> (and ignore the license :P )
2011-08-19T02:14:59 <+izua> speaking of ignoring licenses
2011-08-19T02:15:07 <+izua> we feels like ripping libopenstm32
2011-08-19T02:15:15 < Steffanx> Huh?
2011-08-19T02:15:19 < dekar_> izua, I'm uploading the old st site to my server right now
2011-08-19T02:15:20 <+izua> and by rippingi mean writing a binary compatible library
2011-08-19T02:15:29 < dekar_> will give you a link in case you need something from it
2011-08-19T02:15:29 < Steffanx> Why izua ?
2011-08-19T02:15:30 < dekar_> :D
2011-08-19T02:15:40 < dekar_> izua, bad idea
2011-08-19T02:15:58 <+izua> well
2011-08-19T02:16:05 <+izua> i like the way their files/access is organized
2011-08-19T02:16:18 < dekar_> so use it
2011-08-19T02:16:19 < Steffanx> There is not cached version of that page :(
2011-08-19T02:16:27 <+izua> no harm done if i rewrite something from scratch, that would link against software written against libopenstm32
2011-08-19T02:17:02 <+izua> i will
2011-08-19T02:17:05 <+izua> but GPL, etc
2011-08-19T02:17:12 <+izua> probably not a good idea for commercial stuff
2011-08-19T02:17:21 < Steffanx> Go MIT
2011-08-19T02:17:23 <+izua> also
2011-08-19T02:17:31 <+izua> i'm interested in that webrape you got dekar :P
2011-08-19T02:19:35 < Vaati_> hah
2011-08-19T02:20:25 < dekar_> izua, uploading to my server right now
2011-08-19T02:20:31 < dekar_> takes like an hour XD
2011-08-19T02:20:47 < dekar_> 40min
2011-08-19T02:21:15 < Vaati_> if its your server, why dont you just like ...  connect the drive to your server ?
2011-08-19T02:21:29 < Vaati_> or is that not the sense of "your" server you are referring to
2011-08-19T02:21:42 <+izua> dekar_: you were saying my internet sucks?
2011-08-19T02:21:42 < Steffanx> inchtml-pages-stm32_audio.html really didn't exist dekar_ ?
2011-08-19T02:21:55 <+izua> play us the song of your modem!
2011-08-19T02:22:01 < Vaati_> hahah
2011-08-19T02:22:16 < dekar_> izua, it's huge
2011-08-19T02:22:22 < dekar_> Vaati_, my server is in france
2011-08-19T02:22:24 < dekar_> I am in germany
2011-08-19T02:22:25 <+izua> i know brah
2011-08-19T02:22:28 <+izua> just messing
2011-08-19T02:22:33 < Steffanx> trololol?
2011-08-19T02:22:50 < Vaati_> oh my
2011-08-19T02:22:56 < Steffanx> pants
2011-08-19T02:23:05 < Vaati_> it would indeed seem that I am the only american in this channel ...
2011-08-19T02:23:06 < Vaati_> :|
2011-08-19T02:23:14 < dekar_> http://62.193.238.133/mcu/inchtml-pages-stm32_audio.html
2011-08-19T02:23:25 < Steffanx> Why mr Vaati_ ?
2011-08-19T02:23:39 < Steffanx> Ah it did exists
2011-08-19T02:23:39 < Vaati_> what?
2011-08-19T02:23:47 < Vaati_> oh
2011-08-19T02:23:49 < Steffanx> "it would indeed seem that I am the only american in this channel ..."
2011-08-19T02:24:08 < Vaati_> also, how did you learn english dekar_
2011-08-19T02:24:09 < Vaati_> ?
2011-08-19T02:25:05 < Steffanx> No link to any download, that sucks
2011-08-19T02:25:11 <+izua> The STM32 audio engine is available now to licensed STM32 customers through ST sales representatives.
2011-08-19T02:25:14 <+izua> neat
2011-08-19T02:25:39 < dekar_> Vaati_, why wouldn't I know english?
2011-08-19T02:25:45 < Vaati_> arent you german?
2011-08-19T02:25:52 < dekar_> Yes indeed
2011-08-19T02:26:07 -!- Steffann [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-19T02:26:15 < dekar_> We actually have to take English at school over here
2011-08-19T02:26:35  * Vaati_ is confused -- here in america, our foreign language classes are taught at age 14 - 16
2011-08-19T02:26:43 < dekar_> And I actually like English, I watch a ton of English movies/series
2011-08-19T02:26:48 < Steffann> Uhm why do you think you are the only american Vaati_ ?
2011-08-19T02:26:56 < Vaati_> for one
2011-08-19T02:27:04 < Vaati_> your hostname is .nl
2011-08-19T02:27:09 < Vaati_> dekar is from germany
2011-08-19T02:27:09 < Steffann> True
2011-08-19T02:27:20 < Vaati_> izua has also said he's from somewhere o'er yonder
2011-08-19T02:27:33 < dekar_> Old World ftw :D
2011-08-19T02:27:41 <+izua> nah, romania
2011-08-19T02:27:41 < Steffann> Ok, you're the only one :)
2011-08-19T02:27:47 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-19T02:27:55 < Vaati_> my point exactly
2011-08-19T02:28:06 <+izua> well you're o'er the pond imo
2011-08-19T02:28:20 <+izua> it's not me
2011-08-19T02:28:23 <+izua> :P
2011-08-19T02:28:28 <+izua> old world ftw! :D
2011-08-19T02:28:31 < Vaati_> what
2011-08-19T02:28:35 < Vaati_> I still dont get it
2011-08-19T02:28:50 < Steffann> http://62.193.238.133/ is an old st website dekar_ ?
2011-08-19T02:29:16 < dekar_> Steffann, I guess parts of it
2011-08-19T02:29:26 < dekar_> Steffann, the old one was so much better
2011-08-19T02:29:36 < Vaati_> i hate the new st site ...
2011-08-19T02:29:37 < dekar_> once I uploaded it you will see why I wanted to keep it
2011-08-19T02:29:43 < dekar_> http://code.google.com/p/stm32radio/source/browse/trunk/examples/5_media_mp3/mp3.c?r=29
2011-08-19T02:29:51 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2011-08-19T02:29:56 < dekar_> some mp3 decoder - just randomly found it
2011-08-19T02:30:21 < Steffann> there should be someone with the original
2011-08-19T02:30:31 < Steffann> from stm
2011-08-19T02:30:32 < Steffann> 32
2011-08-19T02:30:34 < Vaati_> omfg no way
2011-08-19T02:30:38 < Vaati_> that epic dekar_
2011-08-19T02:36:15 < Vaati_> noooooo  I accidentally deleted my libraries ....  D:
2011-08-19T02:36:24 < Vaati_> crap
2011-08-19T02:37:10 < dekar_> why would you do that O.o
2011-08-19T02:37:49 < dekar_> I can recommend http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/ for daily incremental backups
2011-08-19T02:38:13 < Vaati_> meh its fine   -- ive prolly got a few other copies of it somewhere
2011-08-19T02:38:50 < dekar_> Vaati_, so which foreign language did you learn at school?
2011-08-19T02:39:03 < Vaati_> hahaha!  "learned" ...
2011-08-19T02:39:06 < Vaati_> ;)
2011-08-19T02:39:17 < Vaati_> I took french classes -- however, I dont remember any of it
2011-08-19T02:39:47 < dekar_> well in that case, grats on wasting time of your life :D
2011-08-19T02:39:51 < Vaati_> (rosetta stone is not as good as it sounds)
2011-08-19T02:40:03 <+izua> those don't count as classes
2011-08-19T02:40:06 < Vaati_> I needed the credits to graduate, so it wasnt *that* bad
2011-08-19T02:40:19 <+izua> unless you can vow that when you're a computer, you will never be distracted
2011-08-19T02:40:19 < Vaati_> so I took em all in one year, heh
2011-08-19T02:40:30 < dekar_> there aren't any french people in here right?
2011-08-19T02:40:43 < dekar_> how about... how about we invade france once and for all? :D
2011-08-19T02:40:45 <+izua> i hear their white flag factory is down
2011-08-19T02:40:48 < Vaati_> hah
2011-08-19T02:40:52 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-19T02:40:59 <+izua> so they're probably scared shittles because lack of tactical equipment supply
2011-08-19T02:42:18 < dekar_> izua, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website/
2011-08-19T02:42:22 < dekar_> still uploading btw
2011-08-19T02:42:27 < dekar_> so wait before grabbing it all :D
2011-08-19T02:43:09 < dekar_> I also got the html
2011-08-19T02:43:46 < Steffann> forbidden ftw
2011-08-19T02:43:59 < dekar_> Steffann, oh - will fix that
2011-08-19T02:44:48 < dekar_> and for any of you who don't get their maximum speed while downloading from my server - it's an act of racism committed against you by those french people
2011-08-19T02:45:26 < dekar_> should work now
2011-08-19T02:45:36 < Steffann> Yep
2011-08-19T02:48:43 < dekar_> in case you wonder why I did that, sometimes I am just OCD like that :D
2011-08-19T02:49:44 < Steffann> OCD is a good thing sometimes
2011-08-19T02:50:03 < dekar_> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website/STM32%20(ARM%20Cortex%20M3)%20-%2032-bit%20Microcontrollers%20-%20Technical%20Literature%20and%20Support%20Files.html
2011-08-19T02:50:34 < dekar_> that's the old ST page
2011-08-19T02:51:41 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-19T02:51:47 <+izua> no mp3 decoder files?
2011-08-19T02:52:08 <+izua> there is for speex though.
2011-08-19T02:53:13 < dekar_> no mp3 yeah
2011-08-19T02:53:17 < dekar_> also realized that
2011-08-19T02:53:39 < Steffann> I don't think it was really there
2011-08-19T02:54:06 < Steffann> on a polish forum, topic from 13 november 2010 you can read someone mentions something about a NDA
2011-08-19T02:55:10 < dekar_> I thought I remembered seeing a download, but I might be wrong since I never really cared about audio
2011-08-19T02:55:29 < Steffann> You should've done that
2011-08-19T02:58:36 < Steffann> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=https%3a%2f%2fmy%2est%2ecom%2fpublic%2fSTe2ecommunities%2fmcu%2fLists%2fcortex_mx_stm32%2fSTM32%20audio%20engine&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D7580009C4E14902C3CDE46A77F0FFD06506F5B&currentviews=324
2011-08-19T02:58:38 < Steffann> oeps
2011-08-19T02:58:40 < Steffann> long ling
2011-08-19T02:58:41 < Steffann> k
2011-08-19T02:58:56 < Steffann> And the pages are gone
2011-08-19T02:59:58 < dekar_> oh does anyone know how to get a USB PID from ST?
2011-08-19T03:00:03 < dekar_> I know versaloon did get one
2011-08-19T03:00:34 < dekar_> when I called their german office they didn't feel like helping me since I am no listed partner
2011-08-19T03:02:29 < dekar_> izua, in case you want to mirror it - upload has just finished
2011-08-19T03:04:49 < Steffann> Goodn ight
2011-08-19T03:05:10 < dekar_> night
2011-08-19T03:10:48 -!- Steffann [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2011-08-19T03:11:48 <+izua> i will get it later, i guess
2011-08-19T03:11:50 <+izua> zip it over
2011-08-19T03:11:57 <+izua> and send it over your insanely good internet :P
2011-08-19T03:16:44 < dekar_> izua, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website.tar.bz2
2011-08-19T03:16:49 < dekar_> your wish is my command
2011-08-19T03:17:48 <+izua> holy crap lol
2011-08-19T03:18:05 <+izua> wait a minute
2011-08-19T03:18:08 <+izua> you said you had a root server
2011-08-19T03:18:11 <+izua> why didn't you scp it there
2011-08-19T03:18:19 <+izua> and tar xzvf it remotely
2011-08-19T03:18:36 <+izua> because i might have already downloaded the 241Megs.
2011-08-19T03:18:37 < dekar_> I mounted the server and copy pasted
2011-08-19T03:18:59 < dekar_> and now I just logged in and tar'ed it
2011-08-19T03:19:01 <+izua> the server does some silly rate limiting
2011-08-19T03:19:06 <+izua> it goes down to 2.56 MBps
2011-08-19T03:19:09 <+izua> than halts a bit
2011-08-19T03:19:13 <+izua> than goes up to about 4
2011-08-19T03:19:14 < dekar_> surely not the server
2011-08-19T03:19:16 <+izua> than stays there a bit
2011-08-19T03:19:17 < dekar_> it's romania
2011-08-19T03:19:22 <+izua> then down to 2.56 again
2011-08-19T03:19:26 <+izua> or something along the path.. :P
2011-08-19T03:19:30 <+izua> it looks like.. a sine!
2011-08-19T03:19:32 < dekar_> yeah
2011-08-19T03:19:43 < dekar_> use it to calculate pi
2011-08-19T03:19:55 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T03:20:15 < dekar_> and the resuuuuuult iiiiis: PI = 3
2011-08-19T03:21:08 <+izua> PI = 5
2011-08-19T03:21:13 <+izua> (approximated between 1 and 10)
2011-08-19T03:21:30 < dekar_> no waii, PI is exactly 3
2011-08-19T03:23:21 < dekar_> izua, http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.2.1/armel/iso-cd/debian-6.0.2.1-armel-CD-1.iso
2011-08-19T03:23:26 < dekar_> what's your speed?
2011-08-19T03:23:59 <+izua> 1.25 and growing
2011-08-19T03:24:15 <+izua> topped at 2
2011-08-19T03:24:25 <+izua> falls back to 1.5 or so
2011-08-19T03:24:40 < dekar_> 2011-08-19 02:25:59 (8.32 MB/s) - `debian-6.0.2.1-armel-CD-1.iso' saved [671506432/671506432]
2011-08-19T03:24:52 < dekar_> that's on my server
2011-08-19T03:25:20 < dekar_> somehow your connection to the rest of the world sucks
2011-08-19T03:26:01 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-19T03:26:13 <+izua> the isp has its own infrastructure nation-wide
2011-08-19T03:26:15 <+izua> which is rather epic
2011-08-19T03:26:18 <+izua> but above that, fail.
2011-08-19T03:26:45 < dekar_> that's the cause of the problem then
2011-08-19T03:27:05 < dekar_> I like debian armel btw
2011-08-19T03:27:17 <+izua> no idea what that is
2011-08-19T03:27:20 <+izua> but it has arm in it
2011-08-19T03:27:23 < dekar_> debian for arm
2011-08-19T03:27:47 < dekar_> needs ARMv4 at least I think
2011-08-19T03:28:31 < dekar_> I think my panda is ARMv7
2011-08-19T03:28:40 < dekar_> PANDA!
2011-08-19T03:28:49 <+izua> SEXUAL HARASSMENT
2011-08-19T03:29:04 < dekar_> O.o
2011-08-19T03:29:12 < dekar_> you know you like it!
2011-08-19T03:29:13 <+izua> you're supposed to say "PANDA"
2011-08-19T03:29:42 <+izua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5I9TWMA4U8
2011-08-19T03:29:43 < dekar_> so you want it as well?
2011-08-19T03:29:45 < dekar_> PANDA!
2011-08-19T03:30:08 <+izua> the panda board?
2011-08-19T03:30:09 <+izua> hm
2011-08-19T03:30:15 <+izua> i'd like to mess with it for a while i guess
2011-08-19T03:30:24 <+izua> can't think of a project that would be worth including into atm
2011-08-19T03:30:32 <+izua> does it have any gpio?
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2011-08-19T10:04:36 <+izua> dekar__:
2011-08-19T10:04:38 <+izua> still around?
2011-08-19T10:04:46 <+izua> here's what's actually a dirty hack
2011-08-19T10:04:47 <+izua> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ata2isp/main.html
2011-08-19T10:04:54 <+izua> not the memory mapping one :P
2011-08-19T12:39:41 < dekar__> izua, WTH
2011-08-19T12:39:45 < dekar__> -.-
2011-08-19T12:41:29 <+izua> it's pretty epic imo :P
2011-08-19T12:45:40 < dekar__> so wrong
2011-08-19T12:46:02 < dekar__> I mean year, creative use
2011-08-19T12:46:06 < dekar__> *yeah
2011-08-19T12:46:12 < dekar__> but - why?
2011-08-19T12:46:20 < dekar__> just use usb :D
2011-08-19T12:46:55 <+izua> because you need to program a chip to do usb and oyu don't have a programmer
2011-08-19T12:47:16 <+izua> i think of these hardware hacks as epic
2011-08-19T12:47:23 <+izua> it's not the fact that the hardware works
2011-08-19T12:47:29 <+izua> that's rarely NOT the case
2011-08-19T12:47:53 <+izua> it's the fact that a modern kernel still allows this kind of shit to be done without needing a lot of bullcrap drivers
2011-08-19T12:49:14 < dekar__> izua, why wouldn't a modern kernel disallow it?
2011-08-19T12:49:24 < dekar__> *allow
2011-08-19T12:49:51 < dekar__> I mean it doesn't touch hardware it doesn't use
2011-08-19T12:49:57 < dekar__> so it shouldn't interfere
2011-08-19T12:50:15 <+izua> because people want everything abstracted away by the kernel
2011-08-19T12:50:26 <+izua> or at least that's the way it seems to me
2011-08-19T12:50:40 <+izua> and this is a very non-standard use, thus, not covered by standard cases :)
2011-08-19T12:51:13 < dekar__> izua, you can't abstract hardware anyway
2011-08-19T12:51:19 <+izua> it doesn't touch hardware, indeed
2011-08-19T12:51:21 <+izua> sure you do
2011-08-19T12:51:23 <+izua> you said it yourself
2011-08-19T12:51:32 <+izua> if it's not 0x378, it's not a parallel port
2011-08-19T12:51:33 < dekar__> I mean at some point you gotta access the hardware directly
2011-08-19T12:51:44 <+izua> it's, quote "so wrong"
2011-08-19T12:52:10 <+izua> myeah. so let the kernel or its pretty drivers do it
2011-08-19T12:52:12 < dekar__> yeah but the driver always has to be low level
2011-08-19T12:52:17 <+izua> accessing hardware directly is a sin, no? :P
2011-08-19T12:52:28 < dekar__> hell there is another driver on that system running even more low level
2011-08-19T12:52:34 < dekar__> the chipset driver
2011-08-19T12:52:37 <+izua> meh, indeed
2011-08-19T12:53:03 < dekar__> at the chipset level it gets proprietary, but you still can access it
2011-08-19T12:53:12 < dekar__> wouldn't work on other boards though
2011-08-19T12:53:37 <+izua> i'm just saying that people like to 'fall back' on customary abstractions and enforce them, although they have no reason to be so
2011-08-19T12:53:45 <+izua> and that can probably be more or less reflected in kernel code
2011-08-19T12:54:05 <+izua> for example, a lot of parallel port remapping will only allow you to do 0x378, 0x278 or 0x37B iirc.
2011-08-19T12:56:49 < dekar__> well some drivers limit you, like I probably can't do bitbanging on my usb data lines
2011-08-19T12:57:05 < dekar__> but I probably could hack the chipset driver to do so
2011-08-19T12:57:16 < dekar__> still, why would I want that?
2011-08-19T12:57:29 <+izua> oh
2011-08-19T12:57:33 < dekar__> that's a useless exercise
2011-08-19T12:57:36 <+izua> there's a hack around that too
2011-08-19T12:57:45 <+izua> some guy made an avr programmer with a 4 port usb hub
2011-08-19T12:57:52 < dekar__> :/
2011-08-19T12:57:57 <+izua> mosi, sck, reset are output lines
2011-08-19T12:58:01 <+izua> miso is an inpuit line
2011-08-19T12:58:02 <+izua> go figure.
2011-08-19T12:58:04 < dekar__> useless exercise!
2011-08-19T12:58:08 <+izua> not really.
2011-08-19T12:58:26 <+izua> if you don't have a programmer around, but the parts you need to program a chip.. :P
2011-08-19T12:58:28 < dekar__> just use an FTDI
2011-08-19T12:58:36 < dekar__> everyone has those
2011-08-19T12:58:46 <+izua> nah, not really
2011-08-19T12:59:12 <+izua> plus there aren't any breakout boards for SSOP-28/10mm easily available, so people have to make their own pcb
2011-08-19T12:59:30 <+izua> that's probably too much of a bother than soldering stuff to a piece of veroboard
2011-08-19T12:59:33 <+izua> not sure though :P
2011-08-19T12:59:36 < dekar__> I have the official ft2232h board made by ftdichip
2011-08-19T12:59:38 <+izua> i'm 50/50 on each side
2011-08-19T13:00:07 <+izua> hardware hacks vs nice, cool software solution
2011-08-19T13:00:13 <+izua> does it cost under €3?
2011-08-19T13:00:32 <+izua> and is it commonly available in a spare part bin? :P
2011-08-19T13:01:05 < dekar__> izua, http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?productID=226&search=ft2232h&op=catalogue-product_info-null
2011-08-19T13:01:14 < dekar__> that one I got
2011-08-19T13:01:20 < dekar__> never even using it
2011-08-19T13:01:27 <+izua> you can order a programmer by that logic
2011-08-19T13:01:37 < dekar__> no - I have it around
2011-08-19T13:01:43 <+izua> i think the whole purpose of these hacks is solving a problem with stuff you can find in a parts bin
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2011-08-19T13:01:56 <+izua> ie - not buying extra stuff
2011-08-19T13:02:14 <+izua> Steffanx: check this out http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ata2isp/main.html
2011-08-19T13:02:17 < dekar__> I have a bunch of stm32 and ftdi chips around
2011-08-19T13:02:54 < Steffanx> Yeah, i've seen that
2011-08-19T13:03:06 < Steffanx> rue_* in #avr made that iirc
2011-08-19T13:03:07 <+izua> yeah, but that's not something you'd usually find in a spare parts bin :P
2011-08-19T13:03:17 < dekar__> Steffanx, useless exercise imo
2011-08-19T13:03:27 <+izua> not as useless as the hub hack
2011-08-19T13:03:47 < Steffanx> That hub hack is nice :P
2011-08-19T13:03:57 < dekar__> oh hell, aren't there any gpio pins on your phone you could use?
2011-08-19T13:04:17 <+izua> sure there are
2011-08-19T13:04:26 <+izua> jtag programming
2011-08-19T13:04:31 < Steffanx> How you guys do that?
2011-08-19T13:04:42 < Steffanx> Be here hours after i leave, and wake up earlier
2011-08-19T13:04:43 <+izua> i had a prototype for a voiceband GPIO modem
2011-08-19T13:04:48 <+izua> that could probably work as a programmer too
2011-08-19T13:04:52 < dekar__> Steffanx, dunno
2011-08-19T13:04:53 <+izua> from a pc, phone, pda, etc
2011-08-19T13:05:13 < dekar__> Steffanx, I slept like 9h
2011-08-19T13:05:26 <+izua> the device generated random waveforms, like buzzes of a modem, and a circuit interpreted those as logic levels
2011-08-19T13:05:32 < Steffanx> Really?
2011-08-19T13:05:34 < Steffanx> 3-12?
2011-08-19T13:05:34 <+izua> and it could do the reverse, well, sort of.
2011-08-19T13:05:44 < dekar__> glad I told my boss I wouldn't work - else I'd have had to get up much earlier -.-"
2011-08-19T13:05:47 <+izua> some crappy fft
2011-08-19T13:06:13 < Steffanx> Getting lazy dekar__ ?
2011-08-19T13:06:46 < dekar__> Steffanx, I have 25 free days a year and I usually barely use them up
2011-08-19T13:06:57 < dekar__> so I decided to use some once in a while
2011-08-19T13:08:07 < dekar__> Steffanx, it's not really about being lazy, there just is no point in working too much
2011-08-19T13:09:02 <+izua> afraid of getting too rich, dekar?
2011-08-19T13:09:22 < dekar__> nah
2011-08-19T13:09:40 < dekar__> you guys probably work far less than I do :P
2011-08-19T13:10:23 < dekar__> izua, any idea how to make ST give me an usb PID?
2011-08-19T13:10:39 <+izua> ask them?
2011-08-19T13:10:43 < dekar__> I did
2011-08-19T13:10:46 <+izua> and?
2011-08-19T13:11:00 < dekar__> they told me I won't get support since I am no listed customer
2011-08-19T13:11:08 <+izua> become an enlisted customer, i guess.
2011-08-19T13:11:13 < dekar__> hm
2011-08-19T13:11:16 <+izua> you can't make someone give you something, afaik :P
2011-08-19T13:11:42 < dekar__> I could steal some employers puppy and live stream horrible torture videos
2011-08-19T13:12:34 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T13:12:44 <+izua> that's blackmailing him into doing it
2011-08-19T13:12:50 < dekar__> so?
2011-08-19T13:13:13 <+izua> well... that's different xD
2011-08-19T13:13:22 <+izua> he needs to have a puppy, for starters.
2011-08-19T13:13:43 < dekar__> I'll donate him one
2011-08-19T13:17:08 < dekar__> izua, any other method of getting a pid without buying a vid?
2011-08-19T13:17:24 <+izua> v-usb was offering some.
2011-08-19T13:17:26 <+izua> microchip too.
2011-08-19T13:17:44 <+izua> v-usb was tinyusb was avrusb was something else
2011-08-19T13:17:50 <+izua> look up "usb, avr, obdev"
2011-08-19T13:18:06 <+izua> (usb software client for avr, btw, speaking of pointless :D)
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2011-08-19T13:18:49 < dekar__> izua, I need one I can use on STM32
2011-08-19T13:19:11 <+izua> you might also try with ft
2011-08-19T13:19:46 <+izua> iirc were the ones that gave it away easiest
2011-08-19T13:19:54 <+izua> but that's from ##electronics logs stuck in my brain
2011-08-19T13:20:13 <+izua> buy a VID dude
2011-08-19T13:20:25 <+izua> you'll get a whole block of PIDs
2011-08-19T13:20:29 <+izua> then you can give us some too :D
2011-08-19T13:20:39 <+izua> because your company spends money on shit they don't use nayway :D
2011-08-19T13:20:42 <+izua> it's like $2000
2011-08-19T13:20:44 <+izua> total bargain
2011-08-19T13:20:47 <+izua> Steffanx: support me on this
2011-08-19T13:20:53 <+izua> there's a free PID in for you
2011-08-19T13:21:31 < dekar__> izua, yeah we'll probably get a VID
2011-08-19T13:21:41 < dekar__> I just feel like it's a waste of money
2011-08-19T13:21:54 < dekar__> my boss wants one anyway
2011-08-19T13:22:14 <+izua> can i please please please get a pid? :D
2011-08-19T13:22:21 <+izua> 0x0666 or 0xB00B if possible :P
2011-08-19T13:23:47 <+izua> but anyway
2011-08-19T13:23:52 <+izua> getting a VID is probably the easiest way
2011-08-19T13:24:01 <+izua> although it's sucky for only 2-3 products
2011-08-19T13:24:42 < dekar__> lol
2011-08-19T13:24:44 <+izua> some guy on the interweb said that he got letters from usb if for selling PIDs in his VID space
2011-08-19T13:25:06 <+izua> and not congratulatory ones
2011-08-19T13:25:11 < dekar__> like telling him to stop? why?
2011-08-19T13:25:25 <+izua> because he was making money without giving them back some, i guess.
2011-08-19T13:25:37 < dekar__> I don't get it
2011-08-19T13:25:48 <+izua> you need to have a $2000 deficit if you buy a vid
2011-08-19T13:25:49 < dekar__> they could sell PIDs themselves
2011-08-19T13:26:06 <+izua> if you try to recover it by selling pids, you make them lose $2000 for every pid
2011-08-19T13:26:07 <+izua> nah
2011-08-19T13:26:13 <+izua> someone as big as them can't care about micromanagement
2011-08-19T13:26:46 < dekar__> they don't loose money
2011-08-19T13:26:48 <+izua> same reason why record labels gnaw at music cloud services
2011-08-19T13:26:53 <+izua> it's my mp3
2011-08-19T13:26:57 <+izua> i put it on a server
2011-08-19T13:27:08 <+izua> the server sees its tag, streams its from its music collection.
2011-08-19T13:27:19 <+izua> however, the record labels call that piracy and want in.
2011-08-19T13:27:25 <+izua> sure they do, technically
2011-08-19T13:27:29 < dekar__> nope
2011-08-19T13:27:31 <+izua> it's all in those hypothetical profits
2011-08-19T13:27:41 <+izua> like "hours spent gaming at work == wasted profits"
2011-08-19T13:27:42 < dekar__> most PID buyers wouldn't buy a VID
2011-08-19T13:27:42 <+izua> etc
2011-08-19T13:27:57 <+izua> you need a PID
2011-08-19T13:28:01 < dekar__> we play counter strike at work once in a while
2011-08-19T13:28:07 <+izua> yet the only viable solution so far seems to buy a VID ;P
2011-08-19T13:28:25 < dekar__> so you use parallel instead
2011-08-19T13:29:06 < dekar__> seriously, there are always work arounds for getting a PID
2011-08-19T13:29:12 <+izua> well then
2011-08-19T13:29:13 <+izua> go get one
2011-08-19T13:29:25 < dekar__> I could just use the ST default one
2011-08-19T13:29:41 <+izua> that would suck if someone else would also use it
2011-08-19T13:29:56 < dekar__> I can use the usb serial as well
2011-08-19T13:30:03 < dekar__> to detect my device
2011-08-19T13:30:12 <+izua> that would probably be better
2011-08-19T13:30:31 <+izua> anyway, off to work
2011-08-19T13:30:32 <+izua> bbl
2011-08-19T13:30:39 < dekar__> you actually work?
2011-08-19T13:30:41 < dekar__> :)
2011-08-19T14:29:48 < Vaati_> lol, dekar__
2011-08-19T14:31:31 < Vaati_> dir -a
2011-08-19T14:31:35 < Vaati_> er crap
2011-08-19T14:39:42 < dekar__> dir O.o
2011-08-19T14:40:03 < dekar__> it's called "ls" actually
2011-08-19T14:40:13 < Steffanx> dir -a = winlux :P
2011-08-19T14:40:22 < Steffanx> *winux
2011-08-19T14:42:35 < Laurenceb_> winux?! lulwut
2011-08-19T14:53:27 < dekar__> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/drac%20-%20all%20night.mp3
2011-08-19T14:53:46 < Steffanx> dekar__ the musician ?
2011-08-19T14:54:02 < dekar__> I didn't make it lol
2011-08-19T15:47:34 < Vaati_> question
2011-08-19T15:47:45 < Steffanx> answer
2011-08-19T15:47:47 < Vaati_> is there an spi appnote/driver somewhere?
2011-08-19T15:47:49 < Vaati_> for the stm32
2011-08-19T15:47:58 < Vaati_> I cant seem to find one  anywhere ...
2011-08-19T15:48:07 < Steffanx> There is a driver in the stm32 peripheral libs
2011-08-19T15:48:16 < Steffanx> And openlibstm32 has it too
2011-08-19T15:48:21 < Steffanx> *lib
2011-08-19T15:49:22 < Steffanx> http://www.st.com/internet/com/SOFTWARE_RESOURCES/SW_COMPONENT/FIRMWARE/stm32f10x_stdperiph_lib.zip
2011-08-19T15:50:04 < Steffanx> http://libopenstm32.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=libopenstm32/libopenstm32;a=blob_plain;f=examples/stm32/stm32-h103/spi/spi.c;hb=HEAD :)
2011-08-19T15:50:15 < Steffanx> Hm
2011-08-19T15:50:19 < Steffanx> That one isn't finished
2011-08-19T15:50:42 < dekar__> Steffanx, you started using that gpl virus as well?
2011-08-19T15:50:51 < Steffanx> but it's easy to setup SPI
2011-08-19T15:50:52 < Steffanx> Noway dekar__
2011-08-19T15:50:57 < Steffanx> I just know it's there
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2011-08-19T19:52:40 < Steffann> jpa- why your government is smart and the rest of the EU !@#$%ˆ& dump asses?
2011-08-19T20:50:59 < Vaati_> hmmm  question
2011-08-19T20:51:12 < Vaati_> how do I use printf() with stm32 and gcc ?
2011-08-19T20:51:42 < Vaati_> or some other debugging command
2011-08-19T20:51:47 < Vaati_> that gives me datas
2011-08-19T20:53:04 < Steffann> https://sites.google.com/site/stm32discovery/open-source-development-with-the-stm32-discovery/getting-newlib-to-work-with-stm32-and-code-sourcery-lite-eabi
2011-08-19T20:53:08 < Steffann> Never tried it though
2011-08-19T20:53:41 < Vaati_> aha thats the exact same set of errors i get ...
2011-08-19T20:54:53 < Vaati_> urgh too much copypasta for it to be worth it ...
2011-08-19T20:55:23 < Steffann> It's not that much :P
2011-08-19T20:56:05 < Vaati_> the thing that really  annoys me is the design of the stm32 vl discovery board
2011-08-19T20:56:16 < Vaati_> seriously -- 13 pins wide !! thats just plain stupid
2011-08-19T20:56:41 < Steffann> Tha'ts why i use two bread board
2011-08-19T20:56:42 < Steffann> s
2011-08-19T20:57:15 < Vaati_> yeah, I was thinkin about that ...  did you have to desolder the 6 pin header though so it wouldnt get in the way ?
2011-08-19T20:58:31 < Steffann> I don't connect the two breadboard together
2011-08-19T20:58:57 < Vaati_> hm ?   you have em side-by-side (long-ways, that is) right?
2011-08-19T21:00:03 < Vaati_> making it so the stm32 discovery connects to both of them -- one row of pins goes on one breadboard while the other row of pins goes on the adjacent board
2011-08-19T21:00:06 < Vaati_> ?
2011-08-19T21:00:25 < Steffann> http://www.naffets.nl/share/stm32-20110819-200012.png
2011-08-19T21:01:17 < Vaati_> yeah
2011-08-19T21:01:53 < Vaati_> ....  is that to scale?  :P
2011-08-19T21:02:26 < Vaati_> lol -- at any rate, im probably just going to order some breadboards from ebay ...
2011-08-19T21:03:09 < Steffann> I don't like these cheap ones from ebay
2011-08-19T21:03:14 < dekar__> Vaati_, I started doing some output via LED, then I used UART, later I had a HD44780 and now I just use JTAG
2011-08-19T21:03:29 < Vaati_> dekar__: for debugging you mean ?
2011-08-19T21:03:29 < Steffann> SWD ftw :P
2011-08-19T21:03:39 < dekar__> yeah debugging
2011-08-19T21:03:40 < Vaati_> im using the st-link with linux
2011-08-19T21:03:46 < Steffann> That works?
2011-08-19T21:03:51 < dekar__> Steffann, dunno whether I use SWD or JTAG actually
2011-08-19T21:04:00 < Steffann> SWD
2011-08-19T21:04:00 < Vaati_> hah, yeah -- im considering writing up an exhaustive tutorial on it
2011-08-19T21:04:03 < Steffann> ftw
2011-08-19T21:04:14 < Steffann> SWD is only 2 line dekar__
2011-08-19T21:04:37 < dekar__> Steffann, dunno, I just plugged in versaloon
2011-08-19T21:04:41 < dekar__> it supports both
2011-08-19T21:04:54 < Steffann> In your discovery?
2011-08-19T21:05:05 < Steffann> Then you probably use SWD
2011-08-19T21:05:13 < Vaati_> lol, I was thinkin -- what if one was to simply switch around the target and the programmer on the vl discovery?
2011-08-19T21:05:15 < dekar__> no, in the futurlec board
2011-08-19T21:05:20 < Vaati_> use the f103 as the target
2011-08-19T21:05:20 < Steffann> Ah
2011-08-19T21:05:24 < dekar__> *on
2011-08-19T21:05:29 < Vaati_> use the f100 as the programmer via uart
2011-08-19T21:05:32 < Vaati_> xD
2011-08-19T21:06:05 < dekar__> discovery is weird imo
2011-08-19T21:06:14 < dekar__> never had any though
2011-08-19T21:06:42 < Steffann> Sometimes programmers aslo have a uart-ish debug channel
2011-08-19T21:06:48 < Steffann> Don't know if versaloon has that
2011-08-19T21:06:59 < dekar__> I am wondering whether I can use versaloon to debug my panda board
2011-08-19T21:07:15 < Steffann> Debug the linux kernel? :)
2011-08-19T21:07:21 < Vaati_> lolwat
2011-08-19T21:07:22 < dekar__> ya :D
2011-08-19T21:07:31 < Vaati_> sorting out bug 9001, eh ?
2011-08-19T21:08:09 < dekar__> Steffann, I just use breakpoints and read the values I need
2011-08-19T21:08:49 < Steffann> Sometimes i like to plot 1500 values, you don't want to read that with a debugger
2011-08-19T21:09:43 < dekar__> asm("BKPT"); :D
2011-08-19T21:10:28 < dekar__> people here always rant on me for using inline asm, but is there a way to do that in C?
2011-08-19T21:11:08 < Vaati_> dekar__: haha, your rip of ST's site is on page 6 of a search for "stm32 libraries"
2011-08-19T21:11:20 < Vaati_> xD
2011-08-19T21:11:38 < Vaati_> er wait, page 1...
2011-08-19T21:11:56 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-19T21:11:59 < dekar__> :/
2011-08-19T21:12:10 < dekar__> my stuff gets crawled waii too fast
2011-08-19T21:12:22 < dekar__> google is practically living at my server
2011-08-19T21:12:48 < Vaati_> indeed
2011-08-19T21:12:59 < Vaati_> especially since ST's actual site isnt the first result, hah
2011-08-19T21:13:30 < dekar__> I wonder how they found it though
2011-08-19T21:13:39 < Steffann> I made a little website.. that website has !@#$%^ 20-40 (different) spiders 24/7
2011-08-19T21:13:42 < dekar__> I don't think there is a way to find a link to it
2011-08-19T21:14:11 < dekar__> Steffann, I have a huge forum on the server and the google spider never leaves, the others come and go
2011-08-19T21:14:27 < Steffann> Yeah, the same with that website
2011-08-19T21:14:41 < Steffann> 20-40 spiders, active 24/7, 'sorted' on IP
2011-08-19T21:14:51 < dekar__> I even registered the sitemap at google, so they probably insta crawl every new post
2011-08-19T21:15:43 < dekar__> does google allow you to activate the turbo crawl mode? ("may take your server down!")
2011-08-19T21:15:46 < Steffann> The website itself 'only' has 45.000-55.000 unique visitors/month
2011-08-19T21:16:08 < Steffann> Yeah, i played with that for a while
2011-08-19T21:16:19 < Steffann> You shouldn't play with the webmaster tool too much
2011-08-19T21:16:20 < dekar__> I used to have 4k unique daily visits, but I guess it's down to 1-1.5k
2011-08-19T21:16:34 < Steffann> :)
2011-08-19T21:16:47 < dekar__> wc3 is just an old game anyway
2011-08-19T21:17:00 < Steffann> The website i made it just a website for old people :P
2011-08-19T21:17:04 < dekar__> I thought about making another forum, but I kinda stopped gaming anyway
2011-08-19T21:18:48 < Steffann> Google found 49.472.669 links on that website :)
2011-08-19T21:19:06 < dekar__> nice, I always only had links out
2011-08-19T21:19:12 < dekar__> all the traffic came from google
2011-08-19T21:19:18 < Steffann> 50 million links to itself
2011-08-19T21:19:26 < dekar__> I had probably around 100 links incoming
2011-08-19T21:19:31 < dekar__> so really not much
2011-08-19T21:19:49 < Steffann> I  like this "sneller dan 97% van de sites"
2011-08-19T21:19:51 < dekar__> it was like 40% traffic from google and 60% direct traffic
2011-08-19T21:19:57 < dekar__> :D
2011-08-19T21:19:58 < Steffann> The website is faster than 97% of the other website
2011-08-19T21:20:02 < Steffann> s
2011-08-19T21:20:09 < dekar__> yeah I understood that :)
2011-08-19T21:20:16 < dekar__> similar to german
2011-08-19T21:20:22 < Steffann> schneller ?
2011-08-19T21:20:25 < dekar__> yeah
2011-08-19T21:20:58 < Steffann> My German is getting worse. :(
2011-08-19T21:21:14 < dekar__> what kind of ads do you serve?
2011-08-19T21:21:28 < Steffann> ads .. none :)
2011-08-19T21:21:34 < dekar__> I always sticked with google and never got much (120€ a month tops)
2011-08-19T21:21:36 < Steffann> Ok, two little ads
2011-08-19T21:21:45 < Steffann> Just from the two sponsors
2011-08-19T21:21:50 < dekar__> I just had one banner
2011-08-19T21:22:05 < Steffann> One for the server, to get it a little cheaper
2011-08-19T21:22:15 < Steffann> And one made the (new) layout
2011-08-19T21:22:15 < dekar__> I always wanted tribal fusion, but every time I asked them they wanted more visits
2011-08-19T21:22:26 < Steffann> Everything is paid with donations
2011-08-19T21:22:27 < dekar__> when I had 500 daily they asked for 1000
2011-08-19T21:22:29 < dekar__> then 1500
2011-08-19T21:22:33 < dekar__> then 5000
2011-08-19T21:22:36 < dekar__> never reached that
2011-08-19T21:23:02 < dekar__> I never got many donations, maybe 150€ in total
2011-08-19T21:23:32 < Steffann> I don't own the website, so i don't know how much the guy makes each month :(
2011-08-19T21:23:43 < dekar__> I see
2011-08-19T21:23:47 < Steffann> I even made it for free, dooooh..
2011-08-19T21:25:40 < dekar__> Steffann, once you got much traffic you can easily cheat banner clicks
2011-08-19T21:26:11 < Steffann> I think no one ever seens the two little banners :)
2011-08-19T21:26:14 < dekar__> a friend wanted to try that out with my site from his place and google didn't filter them out
2011-08-19T21:26:21 < Steffann> They are on the bottom of the website
2011-08-19T21:26:41 < dekar__> iirc he made me like $30 in one day by using some click bot he made
2011-08-19T21:27:56 < Steffann> I used a simple MySQL DB for it.. it's still holding pretty well
2011-08-19T21:27:58 < Steffann> :)
2011-08-19T21:28:05 < dekar__> back then I was still in school and I really like having more pocket money :D
2011-08-19T21:28:21 < dekar__> there's nothing wrong with mysql
2011-08-19T21:28:25 < Steffann> :)
2011-08-19T21:30:19 < Steffann> @#$%ˆ&I My brother plays with his 27MHz (Citizens' Band) shit again
2011-08-19T21:30:29 < Steffann> It makes my wireless mouse non-functional :S
2011-08-19T21:30:43 < Steffann> I wonder if it also works one 27MHz
2011-08-19T21:31:47 < Steffann> *on
2011-08-19T21:32:21 < Steffann> Time to buy a bluetooth mouse
2011-08-19T21:32:34 < Vaati_> i think im gonna get one of these: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=W25Q64BVSFIG-ND
2011-08-19T21:32:44 < Vaati_> to use with my vl discovery board
2011-08-19T21:32:49 < Vaati_> load some audio into it
2011-08-19T21:33:14 < Steffann> only 64mbit :(
2011-08-19T21:33:56 < Vaati_> yeah ...
2011-08-19T21:34:27 -!- |Marco|_ [~marco@cakebox.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-19T21:34:27 < Steffann> Use SD :)
2011-08-19T21:34:32 < Steffann> *an sd card
2011-08-19T21:37:23 < Vaati_> yeah thats what i was planning on doing
2011-08-19T21:37:31 < Vaati_> but thatd require another breadboard w
2011-08-19T21:37:43 < Vaati_> which would take even more time
2011-08-19T21:37:47 < Vaati_> (for shipping)
2011-08-19T21:38:19 < Vaati_> OR ...  hmm   maybe I could cut my breadboard in half ....  mwahahahaha...
2011-08-19T21:38:23 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-19T21:38:31 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: |Marco|, dekar__, Laurenceb_
2011-08-19T21:38:35 < Steffann> bb
2011-08-19T21:46:05 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-22-22.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-19T21:46:20 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@drms-590edb93.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-19T22:28:24 <+izua> HAI
2011-08-19T22:28:59 <+izua> dekar__: yeah, i freelance. not as employed/etc
2011-08-19T22:38:41 < Steffann> Freelancer.. what do you do?
2011-08-19T22:41:55 <+izua> whatever i can, usually.
2011-08-19T22:42:23 <+izua> boils down to custom electronics or industrial stuff/cncs
2011-08-19T22:58:54 < Vaati_> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=497-11152-ND
2011-08-19T22:58:56 < Vaati_> what no way
2011-08-19T22:58:58 < Vaati_> that board
2011-08-19T22:59:12 < Vaati_> is only like $1 more than the vl discovery and has tons more stuff
2011-08-19T23:01:36 < Steffann> And another stm32
2011-08-19T23:01:40 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-19T23:01:45 <+izua> here is .5 GBP less
2011-08-19T23:01:49 < Steffann> I wonder if stm even makes a profit out of these
2011-08-19T23:01:52 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-19T23:01:56 <+izua> Steffann: doubtful
2011-08-19T23:02:06 <+izua> they had me sign a license sort of thing when i got the board
2011-08-19T23:02:18 < Steffann> Huh?
2011-08-19T23:02:20 <+izua> not being allowed to use it in actual devices, sold or leased
2011-08-19T23:02:31 <+izua> or sell/lease the board as a module itself (with my software)
2011-08-19T23:02:37 < Steffann> I had to sign anything?
2011-08-19T23:03:10 <+izua> so my guess is that they're on the red with these boards
2011-08-19T23:03:33 < Steffann> I never read about such a license anyway
2011-08-19T23:03:40 < Steffann> And i didn't sign for it either
2011-08-19T23:04:34 <+izua> http://www.st.com/internet/com/LEGAL_RESOURCES/LEGAL_AGREEMENT/LICENSE_AGREEMENT/EvaluationProductLicenseAgreement.pdf
2011-08-19T23:04:46 < Steffann> And when did i agree with that?
2011-08-19T23:05:02 <+izua> probably when you bought the board
2011-08-19T23:05:03 <+izua> :P
2011-08-19T23:05:20 < Steffann> Watterott didn't mention anything about it
2011-08-19T23:05:29 < Steffann> Anyway, i had no plans to sell the board at all
2011-08-19T23:05:32 <+izua> i guess
2011-08-19T23:05:39 <+izua> hehe
2011-08-19T23:05:40 < Steffann> It's a dev board, i don't use devboards for real products
2011-08-19T23:05:47 <+izua> that's actually my first though when i look at a new board
2011-08-19T23:05:55 <+izua> is it done well enough to be included in a prototype
2011-08-19T23:06:20 <+izua> ah well
2011-08-19T23:06:27  * izua is now slightly interested in this stm32l board
2011-08-19T23:06:30 < Vaati_> for $12.60, I think its worth gettin
2011-08-19T23:06:37 < Steffann> True
2011-08-19T23:06:48 < Steffann> Unless you have to pay $50 for shipping
2011-08-19T23:06:50 <+izua> STM32L152RBT6
2011-08-19T23:06:51 < Steffann> !@#$%ˆ& the uS :P
2011-08-19T23:06:53 < Vaati_> I didnt know about it, or else I would have gotten that instead of my vl discovery -- heck, it even has an LED display
2011-08-19T23:07:14 <+izua> Steffann: farnell has €4 shipping for anything
2011-08-19T23:07:25 < Steffann> And a minimum of 50 euro?
2011-08-19T23:07:28  * Vaati_ places another digikey order
2011-08-19T23:07:34 < Steffann> Ordered by email
2011-08-19T23:07:40 <+izua> Steffann: nope
2011-08-19T23:07:45 <+izua> you can buy a single smd resistor :P
2011-08-19T23:08:06 < Steffann> I'm pretty sure i c an't
2011-08-19T23:08:15 <+izua> hm.
2011-08-19T23:08:24 <+izua> so stm32L is the low power version
2011-08-19T23:08:28 < Steffann> Yeah
2011-08-19T23:08:34 <+izua> and they're pin to pin compatible with stm32F
2011-08-19T23:09:03 < Steffann> And !@#$% farnell
2011-08-19T23:09:17 <+izua> farnell is cool
2011-08-19T23:09:22 < Steffann> It's 17,61 euro excl. shipping there
2011-08-19T23:09:23 <+izua> they have a shitload of stuff
2011-08-19T23:09:27 <+izua> overpriced, but still.
2011-08-19T23:09:28 < Steffann> In the US it's 12.60$!!
2011-08-19T23:09:47 < Steffann> 25$ vs 12$   ..
2011-08-19T23:10:06 < Steffann> Things like that make me sad :(
2011-08-19T23:10:24 <+izua> digikey also sucked
2011-08-19T23:10:33 <+izua> i wnated to order a beagle board two years ago
2011-08-19T23:10:36 <+izua> was like $150 or something
2011-08-19T23:10:44 <+izua> they didn't even have shippingto this place
2011-08-19T23:10:47 <+izua> had to contact tech support
2011-08-19T23:10:58 <+izua> after about 30 minutes, they figured out shipping would amount to ~$200.
2011-08-19T23:11:42 < Steffann> :S
2011-08-19T23:11:57 < Vaati_> wtf
2011-08-19T23:12:11 < Steffann> Welcome in
2011-08-19T23:12:15 < Steffann> Europe Vaati_
2011-08-19T23:12:16 <+izua> are stm32f and stm32l code and peripheral compatible (if no clock speeds are exceeded) ?
2011-08-19T23:15:28 < Steffann> dunno
2011-08-19T23:17:10 < Steffann> Any old guy here?
2011-08-19T23:17:12 < Steffann> v
2011-08-19T23:17:14 < Steffann> http://i.imgur.com/Koea6.jpg
2011-08-19T23:17:22 < Steffann> What's the relation between these two things?
2011-08-19T23:17:34 < Steffann> What can one do with the pencil?
2011-08-19T23:18:07 < Vaati_> i .. what?
2011-08-19T23:18:16 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T23:18:19 <+izua> rewind the tape nigger
2011-08-19T23:18:24 < Vaati_> oh yeah
2011-08-19T23:18:24 < Steffann> That's all?
2011-08-19T23:18:25 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-19T23:18:30 < Steffann> You have a deck for that...
2011-08-19T23:18:36 <+izua> cause cheap walkmans had only fast forward
2011-08-19T23:18:46 < Vaati_> indeed
2011-08-19T23:18:53 < Steffann> My walkman had it all :)
2011-08-19T23:19:02 < Steffann> Until I broke it because i was angry
2011-08-19T23:19:06 < Vaati_> hah
2011-08-19T23:19:09 <+izua> my walkman was the best
2011-08-19T23:19:16 < Steffann> I was sooo disappointed afterwards :(
2011-08-19T23:19:24 < Steffann> * i felt so stupid
2011-08-19T23:19:25 <+izua> people were like "here, hold the play button a bit closer when the battery drains"
2011-08-19T23:19:28 < Vaati_> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=296-27568-5-ND  < -  darn good deal, imo
2011-08-19T23:19:30 < Steffann> I still feel stupid when i think about it
2011-08-19T23:19:33 <+izua> cause it would play faster because it would skid
2011-08-19T23:20:10 < Steffann> You probably also want some RAM etc. for that chip Vaati_
2011-08-19T23:20:21 <+izua> nobody thought of adding a nut/screw assembly through the head, so they won't have to keep their hand on the play button :P
2011-08-19T23:20:37 < Vaati_> lolwat
2011-08-19T23:20:39 < Vaati_> wow
2011-08-19T23:21:03 <+izua> it's a barebones cpu
2011-08-19T23:21:09 <+izua> so yeah, you need ram AND peripherals
2011-08-19T23:21:23 <+izua> or, hm, reading through the datasheet.. not really.
2011-08-19T23:21:35 < Steffann> but you do want some flash and ram
2011-08-19T23:21:41 < Steffann> And run linux :P
2011-08-19T23:21:49 <+izua> 512 bytes/core!
2011-08-19T23:22:00 < Vaati_> lmao
2011-08-19T23:22:01 < Vaati_> wow
2011-08-19T23:22:05 < Vaati_> 2 cores
2011-08-19T23:22:08 < Vaati_> that makes ...
2011-08-19T23:22:17  * Vaati_ grabs a calculator for this difficult math 
2011-08-19T23:22:19 <+izua> you need external ram
2011-08-19T23:22:28 < Vaati_> yeah
2011-08-19T23:22:29 <+izua> like you don't have ram embedded in your cpu in your computer?
2011-08-19T23:23:07 < Vaati_> well, i happened across a good many 64MB DRAM ICs ...  I think I have 9
2011-08-19T23:23:44 <+izua> drams are neat
2011-08-19T23:23:53 <+izua> because you also need a separate controller to refresh them ;P
2011-08-19T23:25:26 < Vaati_> ah
2011-08-19T23:28:21 < dekar__> SRAM all the way :D
2011-08-19T23:28:47 < dekar__> uber power consumption, uber speed, uber high price :D
2011-08-19T23:30:10 < Vaati_> lol
2011-08-19T23:30:15 < dekar__> izua, I also had one of those walkmans that could only do one direction, but you could simply turn the tape and fast forward to solve that problem
2011-08-19T23:30:59 <+izua> but then you'd need to keep turning it again to check where it landed, then turn it yet one more time to fast forward if it didn't end up atthe start of your favourite track
2011-08-19T23:31:10 < Vaati_> ive got another question -- for the life of me i cant figure out how I can just read a file from an sd card via spi ...  is there a lib for this stuff ?  i was looking at elm-chan's fat filesystem, but it made no sense to me
2011-08-19T23:31:14 < dekar__> izua, ya -.-
2011-08-19T23:31:26 <+izua> Vaati_: you want lower levels first.
2011-08-19T23:31:29 <+izua> look up the sd spec
2011-08-19T23:31:44 <+izua> it's basically just sending some init strings, and then pumping in/out blocks of 512 bytes
2011-08-19T23:32:01 <+izua> http://elm-chan.org/docs/mmc/mmc_e.html
2011-08-19T23:32:05 < Steffann> SDRAM ftw dekar__ :P
2011-08-19T23:32:15 < Steffann> DDR3 ofcourse
2011-08-19T23:32:18 < dekar__> SRAM is better
2011-08-19T23:32:36 < dekar__> much faster
2011-08-19T23:32:46 < Steffann> And smaller/more expensive
2011-08-19T23:32:49 < dekar__> the stuff your cpu cache is made of
2011-08-19T23:32:53 < Vaati_> yeah but ...  I didnt have to pay for this dram.  x)
2011-08-19T23:33:08 < dekar__> so get SRAM :D
2011-08-19T23:33:20 < Steffann> No get SDRAM
2011-08-19T23:33:28 < dekar__> get MOAR SRAM
2011-08-19T23:33:36 < Steffann> Cheaper, more 'space'
2011-08-19T23:33:49 < Steffann> The CPU handles the complexs things for you :P
2011-08-19T23:33:55 < dekar__> Steffann, use a 2tb harddrive as RAM then
2011-08-19T23:34:06 < Steffann> Come on, that's something different
2011-08-19T23:34:09 < Vaati_> aha
2011-08-19T23:34:11 < Vaati_> a command list
2011-08-19T23:34:13 < Vaati_> im now set
2011-08-19T23:34:27 <+izua> that's just block level access
2011-08-19T23:34:34 <+izua> if you want smarter stuff, look up a fs library
2011-08-19T23:34:36 <+izua> efsl is decent.
2011-08-19T23:34:44 < dekar__> FS are overrated
2011-08-19T23:35:03 < dekar__> did I tell you I actually made my own?
2011-08-19T23:35:15 < Steffann> I NEVER HAVE problems with my DDR3 SDRAM dekar__
2011-08-19T23:35:20 < Steffann> I do have problems with the swap
2011-08-19T23:35:24 < Steffann> :P
2011-08-19T23:35:29 < dekar__> Steffann, right, agree
2011-08-19T23:35:32 <+izua> dekar__: what did it do
2011-08-19T23:35:41 <+izua> did it have 512 bytes max, nameless files?
2011-08-19T23:35:46 <+izua> addressed incrementally? :P
2011-08-19T23:35:52 < dekar__> izua, manage files, filenames up to 12 characters
2011-08-19T23:35:58 < Steffann> Why there's no ext2/3 lib for microcontrollers?
2011-08-19T23:36:22 < dekar__> izua, it was 64bit actually
2011-08-19T23:37:15 < dekar__> izua, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/Readme.txt
2011-08-19T23:37:55 < dekar__> by default it writes into a file, but it also should work on block devices like HDDs
2011-08-19T23:37:59 < Steffann> Who fixed my dns or whatever
2011-08-19T23:38:10 < Steffann> I can't connect to dropbox
2011-08-19T23:38:19 <+izua> Also the behavior has been described as random
2011-08-19T23:38:20 <+izua> due to the lack of further investigation, we do not endorse the use of 'linux2thinfs-cp' as an entropy source
2011-08-19T23:38:22 <+izua> for strong cryptography.
2011-08-19T23:38:23 < Steffann> I could a few minutes ago
2011-08-19T23:38:25 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T23:38:36 <+izua> Steffann: same guy that severed the link between me and dekar yesterday
2011-08-19T23:38:48 < Steffann> AMS-IX?
2011-08-19T23:39:11 < dekar__> izua, I actually turned it in like that - so my professor read it
2011-08-19T23:39:27 < Steffann> What did he say dekar__
2011-08-19T23:39:32 < Steffann> I've seen that readme before
2011-08-19T23:39:45 < dekar__> I probably linked it before
2011-08-19T23:39:52 < Steffann> I'm pretty sure
2011-08-19T23:39:56 <+izua> do you get directories? :P
2011-08-19T23:40:18 < dekar__> well he accepted it
2011-08-19T23:40:26 < dekar__> didn't say anything about it
2011-08-19T23:40:28 < Steffann> He didn't say anything about the readme?
2011-08-19T23:40:29 < Steffann> Ah
2011-08-19T23:40:52 < dekar__> he's american btw, wouldn't have written it in english if he wasn'T
2011-08-19T23:41:07 < dekar__> and he's pretty funny
2011-08-19T23:43:51 < dekar__> I had some bug in that tool which copies files - it added a newline to the end I think
2011-08-19T23:44:07 < dekar__> so I decided to document it so it doesn't count as bug :D
2011-08-19T23:45:12 <+izua> lol
2011-08-19T23:45:31 < dekar__> It's actually a documented feature now :D
2011-08-19T23:46:16 < dekar__> the professor found it when using diff against the source file during the assignment at university
2011-08-19T23:46:31 < dekar__> and I was joking about it telling him how it was a documented feature
2011-08-19T23:46:37 < dekar__> so I did actually document it
2011-08-19T23:47:27 < dekar__> I really like him, most other professors get angry if you make jokes like that
2011-08-19T23:47:34 < dekar__> I do it non the less :D
2011-08-19T23:48:16 <+izua> i wonder what would be a really efficient fs for mcu stuff
2011-08-19T23:48:20 <+izua> fat is simple enough
2011-08-19T23:48:35 < dekar__> I had this web-lecture where I tried to convince my professor that allowing XSS would be a great feature and allow the user superior flexibility
2011-08-19T23:48:50 <+izua> rofl
2011-08-19T23:49:03 < dekar__> he got really angry XD
2011-08-19T23:49:41 < dekar__> I only got a B- on that :/
2011-08-19T23:49:49 < dekar__> but well, I didn't visit any of his lectures
2011-08-19T23:49:51 < dekar__> _any_
2011-08-19T23:50:20 < dekar__> I solved the test by copying stuff from the three solutions for old tests I brought with me
2011-08-19T23:50:40 < dekar__> didn't know some css cell coloring - meh :/
2011-08-19T23:50:50 < dekar__> web stuff sucks anyway :D
2011-08-19T23:52:52 -!- Vaati_ [~fkunecke@unaffiliated/vaati-/x-0674671] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
--- Day changed Sat Aug 20 2011
2011-08-20T00:12:56 -!- Vaati [~fkunecke@cpe-173-88-130-189.neo.res.rr.com] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-20T00:13:12  * Vaati slaps his hdd upside the seek head
2011-08-20T00:23:13 < Vaati> hmmm....
2011-08-20T00:23:25 < Vaati> so when Im sending i2c data to an audio codec ....
2011-08-20T00:23:42 < Vaati> Im assuming theres gonna be some need of delays between each sent byte
2011-08-20T00:26:23 <+izua> i2s has some timing requirments
2011-08-20T00:26:31 <+izua> and usually codecs have a buffer and a way of polling the buffer status
2011-08-20T00:26:50 < Vaati> yeah
2011-08-20T00:27:25 < Vaati> is the pin remap function in stm32f10x.h ?
2011-08-20T00:47:09 < Vaati> o i c
2011-08-20T02:30:47 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-22-22.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2011-08-20T04:22:43 -!- Steffann [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2011-08-20T08:01:01 -!- phantoxe [~destroy@a95-92-86-197.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit []
2011-08-20T09:49:59 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-4d014fdc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-20T09:53:19 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@drms-590edb93.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2011-08-20T12:31:00 < dekar_> izua, is i2s stereo?
2011-08-20T12:34:19 <+izua> it can be multichannel too
2011-08-20T12:34:36 <+izua> it's just i^2c with a focus on audio samples
2011-08-20T12:35:40 <+izua> iirc, you have two clocks, one for bits, and one for samples, and messing with those ratios gives you bit rate and channels
2011-08-20T12:35:47 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-22-22.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-20T12:38:51 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-20T12:45:13 < dekar_> izua, is S/PDIF the successor of i2s?
2011-08-20T12:46:34 <+izua> it has a similar format, but no.
2011-08-20T12:47:02 < dekar_> wikipedia says i2s would be considered a higher quality connection than S/PDIF
2011-08-20T12:47:05 <+izua> spdif is for audio 'devices' (think a dac and an audio source), while i2s is for chips, like a dac and a mp3 chip.
2011-08-20T12:47:23 < dekar_> I don't see how it would be higher quality, sounds like BS to me
2011-08-20T12:47:25 <+izua> a studio grade dac 'box', that is.
2011-08-20T12:47:29 <+izua> it's not, actually.
2011-08-20T12:47:34 <+izua> both are digital signals
2011-08-20T12:48:05 <+izua> spdif comes from a higher 'grade' format, used in studio equipment, which allowed higher bitrates and clocks
2011-08-20T12:48:14 < dekar_> well I use S/PDIF to go from my pc to my DAC box :)
2011-08-20T12:48:15 <+izua> s/clocks/vertical resolutions
2011-08-20T12:48:21 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-20T12:48:28 <+izua> i2s is kind of like spdif
2011-08-20T12:48:32 <+izua> but with actual clock lines
2011-08-20T12:48:54 <+izua> spdif uses some form of manchester encoding, so its selfclocked (because you get a single optical link)
2011-08-20T12:49:07 <+izua> other than that, there isn't a huge gap
2011-08-20T12:49:08 < dekar_> ya, but don't they suck anyway?
2011-08-20T12:49:10 <+izua> they both send samples..
2011-08-20T12:49:20 <+izua> i2s? or spdif?
2011-08-20T12:49:25 < dekar_> I mean all modern serial protocols modulate clock onto the data
2011-08-20T12:49:30 < dekar_> I mean clocklines :)
2011-08-20T12:49:44 < Steffanx> Good morning
2011-08-20T12:49:47 < dekar_> hey
2011-08-20T12:49:56 < dekar_> up already? :D
2011-08-20T12:50:08 <+izua> dekar_: yeah
2011-08-20T12:50:15 <+izua> because you need a way to sync your local clock
2011-08-20T12:50:21 < Steffanx> Awake for a while, but i always have some trouble to get out of my bed :)
2011-08-20T12:50:34 <+izua> imo, something like PAL uses, with a colour burst is a much better approach
2011-08-20T12:51:01 < dekar_> izua, dunno what pal is using actually
2011-08-20T12:51:11 <+izua> but such a burst (or hmm, we might say guard or header or sync pattern) will suck in the digital world
2011-08-20T12:51:14 <+izua> erm
2011-08-20T12:51:14 < Steffanx> A bed is the worst invention of the human race
2011-08-20T12:51:17 <+izua> pal is rather interesting actually :P
2011-08-20T12:51:34 < dekar_> Steffanx, try that thing called floor
2011-08-20T12:51:57 <+izua> you get R-I on one channel, B-I on the other, where I is a weighted average of R, G and B
2011-08-20T12:52:03 < dekar_> imo alarm clocks are worth
2011-08-20T12:52:28 <+izua> and the two color difference signals are modulated together by sin/cos (quadrature amplitude)
2011-08-20T12:52:47 <+izua> and the resulting signal is modulated at 3.something MHz and mixed with the I signal
2011-08-20T12:53:08 <+izua> the decoder stages are horrible, and they were all done with analogue electronics :/
2011-08-20T12:53:51 <+izua> so yeah, the deal is that because R-I and B-I are quadrature modulated, you need an initial phase. there's a short burst of 3.something MHz before the actual colour data, so the TV can sync
2011-08-20T12:54:38 <+izua> and i was thinking - you could have such a short burst initially in a serial protocol, and then you won't have to 2x/3x/4x the data rate to have clock recovery
2011-08-20T12:54:50 <+izua> it will be something like a uart
2011-08-20T12:55:03 < dekar_> izua, sounds about as efficient as 64b/66b
2011-08-20T12:55:24 <+izua> actually PAL is really efficient for what it does :P
2011-08-20T12:55:56 < dekar_> I mean those 5% overhead for the clock don't matter
2011-08-20T12:56:24 <+izua> ah
2011-08-20T12:56:25 <+izua> yeah, definitely
2011-08-20T12:56:40 < dekar_> it's even less I think 3%?
2011-08-20T12:56:54 <+izua> since you'll have your signal with waiii better analogue characteristics
2011-08-20T12:57:17 <+izua> 3.(03)
2011-08-20T12:57:19 <+izua> :P
2011-08-20T12:57:20 < dekar_> :)
2011-08-20T12:59:06 < dekar_> I am really not that into the whole data encoding theory, but clock recovery seems to be easy to do in hardware
2011-08-20T12:59:37 <+izua> yeah
2011-08-20T12:59:58 < dekar_> I think they use fourier transformation to recover the clock frequency, and iirc that was easy to do in hw
2011-08-20T13:00:07 <+izua> ah
2011-08-20T13:00:09 <+izua> not at all
2011-08-20T13:00:19 <+izua> for biphase mark stuff, you just sample two succesive transitions :)
2011-08-20T13:00:37 <+izua> for n/n+x, there's a LUT with all the patterns
2011-08-20T13:00:57 < dekar_> oh
2011-08-20T13:01:03 <+izua> so you'll just have to window 2*(n+x) bytes and see where you'll find one of the patterns
2011-08-20T13:01:04 < dekar_> well that makes sense
2011-08-20T13:01:16 <+izua> yeah :)
2011-08-20T13:01:36 <+izua> you have 66 bits, 2^66 possible outcomes, but only 2^64 are used
2011-08-20T13:01:41 < dekar_> fourier transformation is probably the more generic way if you don't know the actual encoding
2011-08-20T13:01:53 <+izua> myeah
2011-08-20T13:02:05 <+izua> but discrete ones aren't actually easy to do
2011-08-20T13:02:13 <+izua> ffts might perform better
2011-08-20T13:02:47 <+izua> fourier stuff is nasty anyway
2011-08-20T13:03:03 <+izua> i had a semester teaching me only that
2011-08-20T13:04:25 < dekar_> what was your field of study?
2011-08-20T13:05:00 <+izua> uh, random formulas the teacher thought up that had no actual connection to electronics :/
2011-08-20T13:05:03 < dekar_> I had one semester where they explained us when to use fourier, we didn't have to implement it :)
2011-08-20T13:05:13 <+izua> here.. i'll think of this function
2011-08-20T13:05:23 <+izua> and you guys plot it, do a fourier, plot that, than do a laplace
2011-08-20T13:05:38 <+izua> yeah, that's what i wanted to learn :/
2011-08-20T13:05:55 <+izua> it's really pointless to teach fourier transforms on discrete functions in an applied science field
2011-08-20T13:07:25 < dekar_> I just had the discussion with one of my colleagues where I said I don't think cpu design matters since most people won't ever implement one anyway - if they did it would probably suck
2011-08-20T13:07:52 <+izua> it's nice to learn about it if you plan on hacking a cpu or doing very low level stuff
2011-08-20T13:07:52 < dekar_> (I had a ton of cpu related lectures lately)
2011-08-20T13:08:03 <+izua> but otherwise it's just pointless
2011-08-20T13:08:41 <+izua> i mean, the stuff that's used in cpus today - hyperthreading, vt, all the crap you were telling me about some weeks ago, that make a single core to be used more efficiently
2011-08-20T13:09:11 <+izua> i doubt a lot of teachers (or lay persons like me) would even understand how those work, at the digital logic level
2011-08-20T13:09:12 < dekar_> so many of my fellow students don't even know how to program properly, I am pretty sure they will never go into hardware
2011-08-20T13:09:20 <+izua> exactly!
2011-08-20T13:09:47  * izua is thinking of getting a camera
2011-08-20T13:10:01 < dekar_> they'll probably make pretty UML diagrams and manage teams or something XD
2011-08-20T13:10:06 < Steffanx> Get a coolpix izua :P
2011-08-20T13:10:10 <+izua> fuck you
2011-08-20T13:10:13 < Steffanx> When?
2011-08-20T13:10:18 <+izua> i asked my sister to exchange it
2011-08-20T13:10:29 <+izua> since you can turn in stuff bought in 30 days, without any reason
2011-08-20T13:10:33 <+izua> she said no, cause it's cool
2011-08-20T13:10:40 <+izua> i did a picture of the same thing with my andro and her camera
2011-08-20T13:10:49 <+izua> guess which one overnoised and overexposed ._.
2011-08-20T13:10:52 < dekar_> use it to take a pic of your sister first... just to show us how sucky the camera is ofc!
2011-08-20T13:11:03 <+izua> she said the camera's better because it has loads of zoom and Xs
2011-08-20T13:11:12 < Steffanx> zoom :)
2011-08-20T13:11:18 < Steffanx> Digital ?
2011-08-20T13:11:26 < dekar_> yeah test the optical zoom on her
2011-08-20T13:11:29 <+izua> and that's the reason she actually sold the DMZ10
2011-08-20T13:11:35 <+izua> not all of it
2011-08-20T13:11:59 < Steffanx> 'Loads of' zoom is useless for such camera imho
2011-08-20T13:12:08 < Steffanx> It's hard to 'stabilize' a camera like that
2011-08-20T13:12:09 <+izua> it's 15x
2011-08-20T13:12:13 <+izua> or 24x or something
2011-08-20T13:12:14 <+izua> it's huge anyway
2011-08-20T13:12:18 <+izua> that first
2011-08-20T13:12:32 <+izua> second, lowest aperture on lowest zoom is 3.8
2011-08-20T13:12:35 <+izua> so
2011-08-20T13:12:38 <+izua> say USELESS
2011-08-20T13:12:54 <+izua> 3.5..
2011-08-20T13:12:55 < dekar_> we have some really nice camera at the company, I am not into that stuff usually, but the images are epic :)
2011-08-20T13:12:58 <+izua> erm, don't remember the progression
2011-08-20T13:13:04 <+izua> i don't want epic images, srsly
2011-08-20T13:13:08 <+izua> i just want a sane control
2011-08-20T13:13:17 < dekar_> it probably was really expensive though
2011-08-20T13:13:27 <+izua> give me a camera with aperture, focus and exposure control and i'm happy
2011-08-20T13:13:35 <+izua> MANUAL, that is
2011-08-20T13:14:06 <+izua> i don't even care about the megapixies
2011-08-20T13:14:06 < Steffanx> SLR ftw? :)
2011-08-20T13:14:13 <+izua> 3 is enough for everyone imo
2011-08-20T13:14:17 < dekar_> it has all of that, one time I tried to use it the exposure was set really low and my pictures were uber dark
2011-08-20T13:14:33 <+izua> really, high?
2011-08-20T13:14:35 < dekar_> our graphics guy was doing HDR photography before
2011-08-20T13:14:51 <+izua> it's not really complicated
2011-08-20T13:15:00 <+izua> you expose faster, you get sharper moving objects
2011-08-20T13:15:07 <+izua> you also need more light
2011-08-20T13:15:12 < dekar_> and more noise
2011-08-20T13:15:13 <+izua> you expose slower, stuff gets blurry
2011-08-20T13:15:23 <+izua> not really, you can lower your sensors sensitivty
2011-08-20T13:15:28 <+izua> WELL
2011-08-20T13:15:31 < dekar_> which makes it darker
2011-08-20T13:15:37 <+izua> THE CRAPPY FIRMWARE SHOULD LET YOU DO THAT
2011-08-20T13:15:44 <+izua> you can compensate
2011-08-20T13:15:49 < Steffanx> Go for a DSLR camera izua :)
2011-08-20T13:15:57 < dekar_> let's make an fpga based open camera :)
2011-08-20T13:15:58 <+izua> lower your f setting or increase exposure time
2011-08-20T13:16:01 < Steffanx> Ignore the price
2011-08-20T13:16:12 <+izua> Steffanx: planning on getting a FZ50 second hand
2011-08-20T13:16:17 < dekar_> yah ignore the price, just grab and run
2011-08-20T13:16:23 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T13:16:26 <+izua> i'd get a mac that way
2011-08-20T13:16:28 <+izua> from a starbucks
2011-08-20T13:16:30 <+izua> but macs are useless
2011-08-20T13:16:34 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-20T13:16:36 <+izua> you can't run CAD software on them :P
2011-08-20T13:16:44 < dekar_> they run windows quite fine
2011-08-20T13:16:44 < Steffanx> You can install windows izua :)
2011-08-20T13:16:49 <+izua> yeah i know :P
2011-08-20T13:16:53 <+izua> hmm
2011-08-20T13:16:58 <+izua> i bet that would make you both cringe xD
2011-08-20T13:17:02 < dekar_> besides they're soooo pretty :)
2011-08-20T13:17:08 < dekar_> jk
2011-08-20T13:17:09 < Steffanx> I have windows installed izua
2011-08-20T13:17:14 < Steffanx> I just never use it
2011-08-20T13:17:16 <+izua> or i could sell it for a dslr
2011-08-20T13:17:25 < dekar_> I wouldn't really care, I just don't like windows personally
2011-08-20T13:17:27 <+izua> the thing is
2011-08-20T13:17:32 < Steffanx> I only use that windows installation for some casual gaming
2011-08-20T13:17:33 < dekar_> I use windows at work regularly though
2011-08-20T13:17:38 <+izua> even some compact cameras
2011-08-20T13:17:40 <+izua> allow manual control
2011-08-20T13:17:41 < dekar_> it's not like I can avoid it
2011-08-20T13:17:44 <+izua> i mean seriously, wtf.
2011-08-20T13:17:49 < dekar_> I have to compile my stuff on winxp
2011-08-20T13:18:04 <+izua> dekar_: a lot of software installation is easy on windows
2011-08-20T13:18:15 <+izua> plus every major driver/software manufacturer goes for windows first
2011-08-20T13:18:28 < dekar_> I write my own drivers - linux first
2011-08-20T13:18:31 <+izua> i just wish it had an epic console :P
2011-08-20T13:18:40 < dekar_> izua, cygwin?
2011-08-20T13:18:43 <+izua> yes well
2011-08-20T13:18:48 <+izua> i like spending my time how i want
2011-08-20T13:18:52 <+izua> not how the computer wants me to :P
2011-08-20T13:18:52 < dekar_> I actually use cygwin on windows
2011-08-20T13:19:09 <+izua> yeah, i used that for a while too
2011-08-20T13:19:13 <+izua> get console2
2011-08-20T13:19:13 < dekar_> it has some weird repository thing
2011-08-20T13:19:19 <+izua> it's a cmd.exe replacement
2011-08-20T13:19:21 <+izua> really epic
2011-08-20T13:19:23 < dekar_> ya
2011-08-20T13:19:54 < dekar_> but I totally love the basic linux stuff for finding errors
2011-08-20T13:19:59 < dekar_> like dmesg, lsusb and so on
2011-08-20T13:20:10 < dekar_> windows lacks that
2011-08-20T13:21:10 < dekar_> we got some networking/security guy who just joined the company and he is really into windows and kept annoying me trying to tell me how windows was better or equal to linux - blah blah
2011-08-20T13:21:37 <+izua> linux is great for a lot of stuff
2011-08-20T13:21:38 < dekar_> I just asked him how to debug usb descriptors once you plug the device in and windows freezes up till you unplug
2011-08-20T13:21:53 <+izua> but you need a lot of free time :P
2011-08-20T13:21:57 < dekar_> I actually had that, showed it off to all my colleagues
2011-08-20T13:22:05 <+izua> yeah, i know :/
2011-08-20T13:22:15 <+izua> that would actually be cool
2011-08-20T13:22:21 <+izua> you could have a device cause insta bluescreens
2011-08-20T13:22:23 <+izua> rf receiver
2011-08-20T13:22:25 < Steffanx> Just a random usb debug app dekar_ ?
2011-08-20T13:22:25 < dekar_> dmesg told me my descriptor was fucked up
2011-08-20T13:22:32 <+izua> connect usb pullup when receiving rf message
2011-08-20T13:22:40 <+izua> watch the other guy pull his hair out
2011-08-20T13:22:48 <+izua> dekar_: disregard that
2011-08-20T13:22:53 <+izua> you never heard this idea, i'm gonna patent it
2011-08-20T13:22:58 <+izua> also gimme the descriptors :P
2011-08-20T13:23:05 < dekar_> Steffanx, won't work once windows freezes up
2011-08-20T13:23:14 < dekar_> might, idk
2011-08-20T13:23:24 <+izua> but actually that would be fun
2011-08-20T13:23:29 <+izua> remotely triggered bluescreens
2011-08-20T13:23:29 < Steffanx> Ah, most of the time a (windows) freeze is just the GUI..
2011-08-20T13:23:34 <+izua> nah
2011-08-20T13:23:42 <+izua> dekar_ had windows freeze due to bad descriptors
2011-08-20T13:23:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, sound was looping as well
2011-08-20T13:23:46 <+izua> kernel panic-like
2011-08-20T13:23:57 < Steffanx> Give me the descriptiors dekar_
2011-08-20T13:24:00 < Steffanx> I want to try :)
2011-08-20T13:24:01 <+izua> ME TOO
2011-08-20T13:24:03 <+izua> MY IDEA
2011-08-20T13:24:06 <+izua> FUCK YOU Steffanx
2011-08-20T13:24:07 < dekar_> don't have them anymore XD
2011-08-20T13:24:09 < dekar_> fixed it
2011-08-20T13:24:10 < Steffanx> Hmpf
2011-08-20T13:24:16 < dekar_> just change the sizes to something small
2011-08-20T13:24:18 < Steffanx> Dig into your versioning system
2011-08-20T13:24:18 <+izua> ah well
2011-08-20T13:24:25 < dekar_> and actually leave the descriptors huge
2011-08-20T13:24:36 < dekar_> probably some buffer problem in windows
2011-08-20T13:24:48 < dekar_> allocating not enough space - buffer overflow?
2011-08-20T13:25:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, never checked that in since it was broken
2011-08-20T13:25:28 < dekar_> I have like 1400 revisions at svn already btw :/
2011-08-20T13:25:44 < Steffanx> 1500 is free cake for us?
2011-08-20T13:25:54 < dekar_> come and get it
2011-08-20T13:26:07 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T13:26:16 < dekar_> I'll have bbq
2011-08-20T13:26:19 < Steffanx> Nah, darmstadt is too far away
2011-08-20T13:26:29 < dekar_> come to dietzenbach then
2011-08-20T13:26:54 < dekar_> lets do bbq at company expenses :)
2011-08-20T13:27:00 < Steffanx> 500km..
2011-08-20T13:27:17 < dekar_> :/
2011-08-20T13:28:15 < Steffanx> I live in the top of NL you somewhere in the middle of germany so...
2011-08-20T13:29:19 < Steffanx> For izua it's probably only 1500-1700km :P
2011-08-20T13:32:40 < dekar_> I was once in amsterdam, there were small green parrots in some park
2011-08-20T13:32:52 < dekar_> that really impressed me, I want parrots in germany as well
2011-08-20T13:33:13 < dekar_> far cooler than pigeons
2011-08-20T13:34:58 <+izua> fuck parrots
2011-08-20T13:35:20 <+izua> my mom's hired by the national railways
2011-08-20T13:35:35 <+izua> so each family member gets one free international trip
2011-08-20T13:35:42 <+izua> as far as the rails go.. :P
2011-08-20T13:35:51 <+izua> so yeah, i'm up to it :P
2011-08-20T13:36:15 < dekar_> neat
2011-08-20T13:36:26 < Steffanx> parrots in the netherlands?!
2011-08-20T13:36:30 < dekar_> ya
2011-08-20T13:36:52 <+izua> hyde park in london is probably the neatest thing
2011-08-20T13:37:00 <+izua> it's literally swarming with 'wild'life
2011-08-20T13:37:06 < dekar_> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAxqxEvjFI
2011-08-20T13:37:34 < Steffanx> I've confess something:
2011-08-20T13:37:36 <+izua> over hear, the gyppos cooked the swans
2011-08-20T13:37:41 < dekar_> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33rtsZdDvAc
2011-08-20T13:37:42 < Steffanx> I have never been in Amsterdam :P
2011-08-20T13:37:47 <+izua> so when the two main parks brought more birds
2011-08-20T13:37:51 <+izua> they had to be caged
2011-08-20T13:37:55 < dekar_> izua, hahaha
2011-08-20T13:37:56 <+izua> and installed a permanent security guard :(
2011-08-20T13:38:00 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-20T13:38:07 <+izua> myeah, but still fail.
2011-08-20T13:38:10 < dekar_> romania is epic
2011-08-20T13:38:15 <+izua> ._.
2011-08-20T13:38:20 < dekar_> that would _never_ happen here
2011-08-20T13:38:30 <+izua> because you fucking cooked your gyppos
2011-08-20T13:38:33 <+izua> now they say ethics
2011-08-20T13:38:35 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-20T13:38:38 <+izua> no you can't fry them
2011-08-20T13:38:46 < dekar_> epic
2011-08-20T13:38:52 <+izua> italy had them mandatory labeled xD
2011-08-20T13:38:54 <+izua> so it's a start
2011-08-20T13:39:42 < dekar_> Steffanx, so why can amsterdam have epic birds and we don't?
2011-08-20T13:40:01 < dekar_> I gotta import keas and make them live in germany
2011-08-20T13:40:20 <+izua> fuck your parrots
2011-08-20T13:40:29 <+izua> with a red hot cattle branding iron
2011-08-20T13:40:47 <+izua> also aren't keas facing extiction?
2011-08-20T13:41:01 < dekar_> they'd probably invade whole europe, I think the only thing that prevented keas from invading the world was the fact they live on an island
2011-08-20T13:41:12 < dekar_> izua, not at all, growing population
2011-08-20T13:41:30 < Steffanx> It's not a parrot btw dekar_
2011-08-20T13:41:31 < dekar_> they were endangered when the government paid for each of them you killed
2011-08-20T13:41:39 < Steffanx> *they are not parrots
2011-08-20T13:41:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, they are
2011-08-20T13:41:45 < Steffanx> Parakeets :)
2011-08-20T13:41:47 < dekar_> oh
2011-08-20T13:41:49 < dekar_> well
2011-08-20T13:42:16 < dekar_> Steffanx, doesn't parakeet mean like "small parrot"?
2011-08-20T13:42:28 < Steffanx> They also seem to live in The Hague and Brussel
2011-08-20T13:42:42 < dekar_> in german parakeet is called "sittich" and those are small parrots
2011-08-20T13:43:19 < dekar_> Parakeet is a term for any one of a large number of unrelated small to medium sized species of parrot, that generally have long tail feathers.
2011-08-20T13:43:31 < dekar_> Steffanx, :P
2011-08-20T13:43:55 <+izua> hm yeah
2011-08-20T13:44:03 <+izua> i'm starting to like DMC/FZ50 badly
2011-08-20T13:44:04 < Steffanx> Doesn't matter dekar_
2011-08-20T13:44:11 <+izua> it has dedicated knobs for f stops and exposure
2011-08-20T13:44:17 < Steffanx> They are still Rose-ringed Parakeets :P
2011-08-20T13:44:20 < dekar_> "The Haag"? lol it's "Den Haag" in German
2011-08-20T13:44:24 <+izua> and holy shit, live histograms too!
2011-08-20T13:44:33 <+izua> Dat Haag
2011-08-20T13:44:38 < Steffanx> The Hague is the English name dekar_
2011-08-20T13:44:51 < dekar_> yeah I got that, just funny they renamed it
2011-08-20T13:45:13 < dekar_> I really don't get why you translate names
2011-08-20T13:46:26 <+izua> Dat Hague!
2011-08-20T13:46:34 < Steffanx> Dat?
2011-08-20T13:46:39 <+izua> also, article in name sounds silly :/
2011-08-20T13:46:41 <+izua> Dat ass?
2011-08-20T13:46:44 < Steffanx> I didn't dekar_
2011-08-20T13:47:02 < Steffanx> Den Haag is really one of the few with an international name
2011-08-20T13:47:13 < Steffanx> Just because it's close to the UK blabla etc.
2011-08-20T13:47:19 < dekar_> Steffanx, I didn't mean you when I said "you"
2011-08-20T13:47:28 < dekar_> I mean in general, why do people translate names
2011-08-20T13:47:41 < dekar_> I know it's an official translation
2011-08-20T13:47:56 < dekar_> Like the German "Bayern" gets "Bavaria"
2011-08-20T13:48:15 < Steffanx> We have Bavaria beer :)
2011-08-20T13:48:16 <+izua> isn't that related to the amount of travel/awareness
2011-08-20T13:48:40 <+izua> like hague having the highest ruling justice court around?
2011-08-20T13:48:52 < dekar_> My state is "Hessen", the English version is "Hesse"
2011-08-20T13:49:19 < dekar_> I think all states have english names, and many cities
2011-08-20T13:49:47 < dekar_> "München" gets "Munich"
2011-08-20T13:50:09 < dekar_> Frankfurt stays Frankfurt :)
2011-08-20T13:50:27 < dekar_> but translating names is useless imo
2011-08-20T13:50:33 <+izua> agreed
2011-08-20T13:50:40 <+izua> plus it adds up to the confusion
2011-08-20T13:50:48 < dekar_> we have UTF8, just copy paste the weird characters :)
2011-08-20T13:51:06 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T13:51:16 <+izua> it's probably just avoiding the pronounciation
2011-08-20T13:51:52 < dekar_> I don't mind pronouncing it wrong
2011-08-20T13:52:41 < dekar_> germans are obsessed with pronouncing foreign words the way they are meant to be pronounced
2011-08-20T13:52:45 < Steffanx> Berlin :)
2011-08-20T13:52:56 < dekar_> I think that's silly and I don't really care
2011-08-20T13:53:01 < Steffanx> Try to pronounce "scheveningen" dekar_ :)
2011-08-20T13:53:28 < dekar_> I'd just pronounce it german - works for me
2011-08-20T13:53:46 < Steffanx> It was a good way to 'detect' germans in WWII :P
2011-08-20T13:53:48 <+izua> we call dresden - 'dresda'
2011-08-20T13:53:54 < Steffanx> You pronounced it wrong :)
2011-08-20T13:54:13 <+izua> although it sounds retarded, since it's sort-of-like a feminine gender applied to it ._.
2011-08-20T13:54:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, haha
2011-08-20T13:54:48 < dekar_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Nl-Scheveningen.ogg
2011-08-20T13:54:54 < dekar_> yeah totally different
2011-08-20T13:55:13 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T13:55:15 <+izua> rofl
2011-08-20T13:55:15 < dekar_> but I really don't care, bavaria sounds nothing like bayern as well
2011-08-20T13:55:20 <+izua> i knew it from the day Steffanx said he was dutch
2011-08-20T13:55:24 <+izua> THAT SOMEDAY
2011-08-20T13:55:25 <+izua> SOMEHOW
2011-08-20T13:55:37 <+izua> you will start with word pronounciations
2011-08-20T13:55:41 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-20T13:55:55 < Steffanx> My Romanian would be probably worse izua
2011-08-20T13:56:17 < Steffanx> I probably can't even pronounce the words
2011-08-20T13:56:17 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T13:56:24 <+izua> not worse than my dutch i guess
2011-08-20T13:56:38 <+izua> i mean, i've been exposed to german a tiny tiny bit
2011-08-20T13:56:42 < Steffanx> English is probably closer to dutch than romanian
2011-08-20T13:56:49 <+izua> but when i was in amsterdam it was horrible
2011-08-20T13:57:01 <+izua> WTF IS THIS.. ooh.. native language ._.
2011-08-20T13:57:18 <+izua> asked a guy about directions at some point
2011-08-20T13:57:23 <+izua> and he had a really thick accent too xD
2011-08-20T13:57:27 <+izua> yeah hm
2011-08-20T13:57:31 <+izua> romanian is a romance language
2011-08-20T13:57:37 <+izua> closer to french/spanish/that shit
2011-08-20T13:57:45 < dekar_> knowing german I can actually understand a lot of dutch, at least when reading it
2011-08-20T13:57:55 < Steffanx> Yeah, the dutch-english accent is !@#$%ˆ&*&ˆ% retarded
2011-08-20T13:57:58 <+izua> i've been told it sounds like a bad case of french+latin
2011-08-20T13:58:34 <+izua> (it has a lot of latin grammar too, it's like the unevolved child, compared to french or spanish heh)
2011-08-20T13:59:05 < dekar_> having learned latin at school I really hate all those people using french for coolness - and demanding proper pronunciation
2011-08-20T13:59:23 <+izua> bah
2011-08-20T13:59:25 <+izua> french is horrible
2011-08-20T13:59:34 <+izua> even my language has strong words for cursing
2011-08-20T13:59:40 <+izua> the french decided it's better NOT TO
2011-08-20T13:59:40 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français :)
2011-08-20T14:00:01 < dekar_> Steffanx, I even know how to pronounce that :P
2011-08-20T14:00:04 <+izua> de sorte.
2011-08-20T14:00:17 <+izua> de meme sorte
2011-08-20T14:00:18 <+izua> or whatever.
2011-08-20T14:00:30 <+izua> say, ^
2011-08-20T14:00:40 < dekar_> or italian stuff - like... gnocchi
2011-08-20T14:00:55 <+izua> or pizza
2011-08-20T14:00:56 <+izua> or PASTA
2011-08-20T14:01:03 < dekar_> well that's easy
2011-08-20T14:01:14 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T14:01:19 < dekar_> is pronounced the same as in german anyway
2011-08-20T14:01:38 < dekar_> gnocchi on the other hand...
2011-08-20T14:02:28 < dekar_> has a silent g - german doesn't have those silent things you write but ignore
2011-08-20T14:03:02 <+izua> meh
2011-08-20T14:03:04 <+izua> same for french
2011-08-20T14:03:05 < dekar_> oh french word, faux pax is really common here
2011-08-20T14:03:25 <+izua> you get a lot of weird silent phonems
2011-08-20T14:03:28 <+izua> like those ent things
2011-08-20T14:03:44 < dekar_> I guess it is kinda funny if people don't know how to pronounce faux pax and ask you what it means
2011-08-20T14:04:06 < dekar_> oh pas
2011-08-20T14:04:07 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-20T14:04:09 < dekar_> faux pas
2011-08-20T14:04:24 < dekar_> I know how to pronounce it though
2011-08-20T14:07:00 < dekar_> I don't see a reason to mix all those languages
2011-08-20T14:07:16 < dekar_> useless exercise imo
2011-08-20T14:07:29 < dekar_> we'd have ended that if we had won WW2
2011-08-20T14:08:05 <+izua> http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Your_Welcome531.htm
2011-08-20T14:08:11 < dekar_> english is okay as well, but romanian? or dutch? who needs those? :P
2011-08-20T14:08:38 < Steffanx> Hmm, how?
2011-08-20T14:08:57 < Steffanx> How can an external hdd be rated at 5V 0.85 when usb is only 500mA?
2011-08-20T14:09:06 < dekar_> haha
2011-08-20T14:09:15 < dekar_> uhm using a capacitor?
2011-08-20T14:09:24 < dekar_> many devices just ignore it though
2011-08-20T14:10:48 <+izua> if you'd use a capacitor it own't help
2011-08-20T14:10:56 <+izua> because you'll need to use discharge the cap
2011-08-20T14:11:02 <+izua> then stop the hdd, then wait for the cap to charge back again :P
2011-08-20T14:11:26 < dekar_> izua, HDDs only draw high current while spinning up
2011-08-20T14:11:36 < dekar_> while running they barely need any
2011-08-20T14:11:38 <+izua> indeed
2011-08-20T14:11:47 <+izua> nah, they need enough to keep the motor running
2011-08-20T14:11:51 < dekar_> they need less than 1W while spinning
2011-08-20T14:11:53 < dekar_> 2,5"
2011-08-20T14:12:05 <+izua> no idea on specifics
2011-08-20T14:12:14 <+izua> they can be spun up slowly
2011-08-20T14:12:16 <+izua> since they are bldcs
2011-08-20T14:12:23 <+izua> s/are/use bldc motors
2011-08-20T14:12:29 < dekar_> I read some when I wanted to build a powersaving pc
2011-08-20T14:12:51 < dekar_> izua, they could also charge a cap for 2s and use that
2011-08-20T14:12:55 < dekar_> or ignore it
2011-08-20T14:12:56 < dekar_> XD
2011-08-20T14:13:06 <+izua> yeah, but caps that big are bulky
2011-08-20T14:13:15 < dekar_> no need to be big
2011-08-20T14:13:23 < dekar_> just use it in parallel to the 500ma
2011-08-20T14:13:56 < dekar_> it just needs to deliver 5V 250ma for like 0.5s
2011-08-20T14:14:06 <+izua> that's a fucking lot
2011-08-20T14:14:11 < dekar_> that should easily fit inside the case
2011-08-20T14:14:16 <+izua> so they need to be big :P
2011-08-20T14:14:19 <+izua> or maybe supercaps
2011-08-20T14:14:34 <+izua> regular electrolytics will most likely suck
2011-08-20T14:14:48 < dekar_> ultracaps are better
2011-08-20T14:14:49 < dekar_> use them
2011-08-20T14:14:55 < dekar_> they drive the HDD for hours
2011-08-20T14:15:13 <+izua> eh
2011-08-20T14:15:15 <+izua> ultracaps
2011-08-20T14:15:18 <+izua> not sure what's the trade name
2011-08-20T14:15:26 <+izua> thos that use activated charcoal to have a huge surface area
2011-08-20T14:16:42 <+izua> http://themetapicture.com/justin-bieber-way/
2011-08-20T14:17:01 < dekar_> izua, wouldn't it just have to be around 1-1,5F?
2011-08-20T14:17:09 <+izua> here's a smart one
2011-08-20T14:17:09 <+izua> http://themetapicture.com/how-paper-should-be-made/
2011-08-20T14:17:20 <+izua> idk, look up the capacitance formula
2011-08-20T14:17:57 <+izua> you need an amount of current for a given time, figure it out from power
2011-08-20T14:18:28 < dekar_> I want 5V, 250mA for 0,5s
2011-08-20T14:18:45 < dekar_> shouldn't be that much
2011-08-20T14:18:57 <+izua> also you need to make sure that when it has almost no charge left, it can still supply your current and voltage
2011-08-20T14:19:10 <+izua> or after 0.5s it hasn't lost a lot of its charge
2011-08-20T14:19:21 <+izua> because charge drops by some non-linear function :P
2011-08-20T14:20:52 < dekar_> http://www.mercateo.com/p/108A-107(2d)690/Kondensator_1F_Herst_Teile_Nr_EECF5R5U105.html
2011-08-20T14:21:31 < Steffanx> The cheaper super caps can't handle that much current
2011-08-20T14:21:36 < Steffanx> You need epxensive ones for that
2011-08-20T14:21:54 < dekar_> 4€
2011-08-20T14:22:02 < dekar_> isn't that cheap for a cap imo
2011-08-20T14:22:10 <+izua> it's not a cap
2011-08-20T14:22:13 < dekar_> so yeah, just ignore it
2011-08-20T14:22:17 <+izua> it's a device that behaves like a cap :P
2011-08-20T14:22:27 < dekar_> izua, what do you mean?
2011-08-20T14:22:44 <+izua> super/ultra caps store charge by an entirely different process
2011-08-20T14:22:51 <+izua> so they're out of the price range of regular caps
2011-08-20T14:22:51 < dekar_> it says Goldcap
2011-08-20T14:22:51 < Steffanx> Doesn't matter
2011-08-20T14:22:56 < Steffanx> It's still a cap :P
2011-08-20T14:24:17 < dekar_> how about making a taser based on an ultracap?
2011-08-20T14:24:19 <+izua> lol
2011-08-20T14:24:24 < dekar_> that should fry people
2011-08-20T14:24:25 <+izua> well it's a completely different process ;P
2011-08-20T14:24:30 <+izua> so it has a different price range
2011-08-20T14:24:31 <+izua> but eh
2011-08-20T14:25:04 < dekar_> should have insane currents going through the body
2011-08-20T14:25:30 < dekar_> and literally fry the target
2011-08-20T14:26:10 <+izua> you need a very high voltage to do that
2011-08-20T14:26:15 <+izua> to go past skin resistance
2011-08-20T14:26:31 < dekar_> izua, I want a taser gun, piercing the skin
2011-08-20T14:26:39 <+izua> ah
2011-08-20T14:26:52 < dekar_> but high voltage is okay as well
2011-08-20T14:27:00 < dekar_> I guess like 12v would be enough though
2011-08-20T14:27:40 < dekar_> sounds fun
2011-08-20T14:27:45 < dekar_> I wanna build that
2011-08-20T14:28:07 < dekar_> and sell it as a weapon against wild animals or something
2011-08-20T14:28:18 < dekar_> (for legal purposes)
2011-08-20T14:28:53 < dekar_> I wonder if it'd make people explode due to high amounts of water vaporizing
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2011-08-20T15:39:37 < Vaati> good morning everyone
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2011-08-20T16:19:55 < Steffann> Good faternoon Vaati
2011-08-20T16:19:59 < Steffann> after
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2011-08-20T22:10:21 <+izua> yes | make -f /usr/bin/linux/Makefile
2011-08-20T22:10:31 <+izua> instant custom kernel etc
2011-08-20T22:10:52  * izua saw a guy earlier do that and claim he has his own kernel
2011-08-20T23:14:00 <+izua> dekar_: found out while phones (and esp desire) loses battery %s while charging from a car
2011-08-20T23:14:13 <+izua> turns out the charger circuitry is in the phone
2011-08-20T23:14:25 <+izua> (since micro usb chargers are used everywhere, and they should be compatible)
2011-08-20T23:14:29 <+izua> but
2011-08-20T23:14:31 <+izua> there's a tricky
2011-08-20T23:14:33 <+izua> part
2011-08-20T23:14:52 <+izua> since those can drain more than 500mA (way more), they need a way to figure out when they're connected to a computer or a charger
2011-08-20T23:14:57 <+izua> so a charger shorts D+ and D-
2011-08-20T23:15:15 <+izua> phone figures that out and draws as much as power as it wants
2011-08-20T23:15:33 <+izua> cheap chargers can't supply anywhere near 500mA
2011-08-20T23:15:44 <+izua> let alone 1.5-2A as much as i've seen my desire suck
2011-08-20T23:16:04 <+izua> so the problem is within the charger, not the phone itself :P
2011-08-20T23:17:01 <+izua> had to open several travel chargers today (+12v models, from car bats) and ALL had D+ and D- disconnected
2011-08-20T23:17:08 <+izua> thus having the phone draw up to 500mA
2011-08-20T23:17:22 <+izua> turns out they burn out if you solder D+/D-, power regulator fails.
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2011-08-21T02:50:18 < Vaati> hmmm
2011-08-21T02:50:41 < Vaati> im trying to get printf to work -- for some reason, it doesnt want to find USART_InitStructure
2011-08-21T02:51:44 < Vaati> aha
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2011-08-21T14:40:24 <+izua> Vaati: there's something with putc supression/redirection
2011-08-21T14:41:14 <+izua> just make a custom variadic printf function and redirect that
2011-08-21T14:41:34 <+izua> myprintf(herp derp, ...)
2011-08-21T14:42:21 <+izua> also if you don't use float (which is a bad idea if you don't have native float support anyway), you can get around with itoa
2011-08-21T14:44:33 <+izua> maybe this will help
2011-08-21T14:44:36 <+izua> (incoming spam)
2011-08-21T14:44:38 <+izua> void addlogline( const char* format, ... )
2011-08-21T14:44:38 <+izua> { char buf[1024*8+1]; va_list args; va_start( args, format ); vsnprintf(buf, 1024*8, format, args ); va_end( args ); log(buf);
2011-08-21T14:44:54 <+izua> }<img src='everything went better than expected.jpg' />
2011-08-21T14:45:09 <+izua> sprintf prints to a buffer.
2011-08-21T14:45:25 <+izua> vprintf takes a varidic argument
2011-08-21T14:45:43 <+izua> nprintf stops when printing more than x characters (buffer overflow safe)
2011-08-21T14:45:51 <+izua> by your powers combined, i am vsnprintf
2011-08-21T14:47:29 <+izua> if oyu never used variadic functions, you will need to include varargs.h and yes, there's ... as the second argument for the function definition.
2011-08-21T14:54:22 < Vaati> izua: thanks
2011-08-21T14:55:16 < Vaati> dunno if itll work though .... >im_a_special_kinda_stupid.png
2011-08-21T14:55:23 < Vaati> ;_;
2011-08-21T15:03:27 <+izua> ~lol
2011-08-21T15:03:31 <+izua> instead of log(buf)
2011-08-21T15:03:42 <+izua> do myCustomFunctionToSendCStringsOverUSART(buf);
2011-08-21T15:04:59 < Vaati> well  i managed to get the usart initialized last night
2011-08-21T15:05:15 < Vaati> however, i dont think it was communicating properly
2011-08-21T15:05:48 < Vaati> one sec
2011-08-21T15:13:37 < Vaati> /home/fkunecke/arm-cs-tools/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/4.5.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol Reset_Handler; defaulting to 08000000
2011-08-21T15:13:42 < Vaati> izua: ^
2011-08-21T15:13:52 < Vaati> thats what it says when I compile -- is that normal ?
2011-08-21T15:17:47 <+izua> that's probably an issue with your linker script
2011-08-21T15:18:02 <+izua> reset should be at 0x08000000 anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem i guess
2011-08-21T15:21:05 < Vaati> ok
2011-08-21T15:21:34 < Vaati> also, do you have a copy of sd_spi_stm32.h ?  I have the .c file, but i cant find the header
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2011-08-21T15:31:17 <+izua> i have no idea what that is
2011-08-21T15:31:24 < Vaati> ok
2011-08-21T15:31:32 <+izua> your library should include every header and implementation file
2011-08-21T15:31:41 < Vaati> yeah
2011-08-21T15:31:43 < Vaati> it should
2011-08-21T15:32:13 <+izua> if it's a generic sd library, for example
2011-08-21T15:32:21 <+izua> a lot of them only give you prototype functions for spi
2011-08-21T15:32:26 <+izua> and oyu'll have to implement those yourself
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2011-08-22T00:20:53 < dekar_> izua, I knew the data line stuff
2011-08-22T00:21:15 < dekar_> that's common, though they use different proprietary encodings
2011-08-22T00:22:02 < dekar_> like special pulldown values etc
2011-08-22T00:22:20 < dekar_> I read about the apple way to do that a while ago
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2011-08-22T15:05:42 < dekar__> Steffanx, how would I measure power consumption using an stm32?
2011-08-22T15:06:20 < jpa-> power consumption of what?
2011-08-22T15:06:21 < dekar__> I know I'd need external components, but how would I implement that?
2011-08-22T15:06:29 < dekar__> optical transceivers
2011-08-22T15:06:55 < jpa-> what kind of power do they take?
2011-08-22T15:07:14 < dekar__> 1.8v 3.3v 5v
2011-08-22T15:07:37 < jpa-> if dc, a simple shunt resistor on gnd + opamp + (optional) rc-lowpass is enough
2011-08-22T15:08:26 < dekar__> no idea what a shunt resistor is, I guess I'll look into it later - computer science guy here :)
2011-08-22T15:08:50 < dekar__> but it isn't that complex and doesn't draw much power?
2011-08-22T15:09:19 < dekar__> we'll release a new product soon and that would be a nice feature to add
2011-08-22T15:09:53 < jpa-> http://jet-server.commtest.co.nz/kb2/11624.htm
2011-08-22T15:10:47 < jpa-> there are a lot of variables, you can adjust a balance between cost/speed/accuracy/power usage
2011-08-22T15:37:05 < dekar__> jpa-, cost doesn't matter - shouldn't use much power and be pretty accurate - speed doesn't really matter as well (seconds would be okay)
2011-08-22T15:37:40 < dekar__> well accuracy should be around 1mA, I guess that's not too much as well
2011-08-22T15:37:57 < jpa-> what is the maximum current?
2011-08-22T15:38:19 < dekar__> since it's usb based it shouldn't be more than 500mA
2011-08-22T15:38:45 < dekar__> well some transceivers need 700mA @ 3.3v afaik
2011-08-22T15:38:52 < dekar__> but usually it's far below that
2011-08-22T15:39:46 < dekar__> we have some guy doing the schematics, so I just want to know what I should tell him
2011-08-22T15:41:59 < jpa-> ok, so something like 20 milliohm shunt gives maximum voltage drop of 10mV.. put a RC lowpass with some 10Hz corner frequency after it, and then amplify that with a LM358 (500µA supply current) 100x so you get a nice voltage input to the STM32 adc :)
2011-08-22T15:42:18 < jpa-> it's quite basic, so any EE should be able to do it
2011-08-22T15:43:27 < jpa-> for best accuracy, you'll need some precise resistors and/or calibration.. otherwise it will be +-1% or so
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2011-08-22T16:17:46 < Steffanx> jpa- dekar__ is not an EE :P
2011-08-22T16:18:17 < Steffanx> Ah, the guy doing the schematics should know indeed
2011-08-22T16:19:13 < Steffanx> I'm also a bad EE, why that low pass filter?
2011-08-22T16:19:58 < jpa-> because if you measure eg. every 100ms, you would miss out short spikes
2011-08-22T16:20:42 < jpa-> (or alternatively, you'd think that it was drawing a whopping lot of power for the entire 100ms.. so better average it out)
2011-08-22T16:25:55 < Steffanx> Ofcourse
2011-08-22T16:26:32 < Steffanx> Sometimes things are so easy i can't think of it myself :P
2011-08-22T16:27:13 < jpa-> btw. don't think that our government is smart.. if ever, it only happens by accident
2011-08-22T16:27:33 < Steffanx> They have a nice deal with greece :P
2011-08-22T16:27:34 < Steffanx> We dont
2011-08-22T16:27:45 < Steffanx> At least, … do they have a deal?
2011-08-22T16:28:35 < jpa-> well they kind of have a deal that may break the whole deal..
2011-08-22T16:29:03 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-08-22T16:29:28 < jpa-> on the other hand the whole loan deal sucks so it's just good if it breaks
2011-08-22T17:10:24 < dekar__> jpa-, gtg now - thanks a lot
2011-08-22T17:10:39 < jpa-> np
2011-08-22T17:11:46 < Steffanx> dekar__ , just buy a chip that does everthing for you :P
2011-08-22T17:12:10 < Steffanx> You can buy chips that measure the voltage + current for you :)
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2011-08-22T20:18:46 < dekar__> jpa-, are you sure that a 10mV voltage drop is enough? the page you linked me suggests you should drop at least 0.1V at maximum current
2011-08-22T20:19:48 < dekar__> I am totally in favor of dropping the least amount possible since USB doesn't allow for any margin
2011-08-22T20:31:40 < jpa-> dekar__: the more you drop, the less you are affected by noise and opamp input offset voltage.. actually, with lm358 the offset voltage is typically 2mV so you would need some way to zero it out
2011-08-22T20:31:54 < jpa-> dekar__: maybe you can put the shunt before the voltage regulator?
2011-08-22T20:32:10 < Steffanx> Use a premade chip :P
2011-08-22T20:32:36 < jpa-> Steffanx: they don't solve the problem, atleast not as long as they use shunt resistors
2011-08-22T20:33:05 < dekar__> Steffanx, I wouldn't care if it was 10€
2011-08-22T20:33:13 < jpa-> e.g. DS2438 expects a 250mV maximum voltage drop, which is quite much for a 1.8V supply :P
2011-08-22T20:33:15 < Steffanx> True, but everything is described very well in the datasheet
2011-08-22T20:33:33 < dekar__> Steffanx, product sells for 400-3500€ anyway
2011-08-22T20:35:27 < dekar__> jpa-, that chip uses 1-wire O.o
2011-08-22T20:35:33 < dekar__> never used that before
2011-08-22T20:36:33 < dekar__> but I'd be in favor of such a chip, would be nice if it was able to measure all the voltages I need and offer a nice interface without any calibration needed :D
2011-08-22T20:37:59 < jpa-> i don't recommend DS2438 because of the high dropout :P
2011-08-22T20:38:06 < jpa-> maybe use something like this: http://www.linear.com/product/LT6105
2011-08-22T20:39:35 < jpa-> but yeah.. the world is full of such chips with varying accuracy and digital/analog interface and number of channels etc.. the difficult part is choosing one :)
2011-08-22T20:40:01 < dekar__> so hard... :P
2011-08-22T20:40:16 < dekar__> I guess I'll tell our EE guy to do that
2011-08-22T20:41:05 < jpa-> tell him that "we want 1mV max dropout and 0.1% accuracy and it should not use any power!" :)
2011-08-22T20:41:21 < dekar__> totally :D
2011-08-22T20:41:34 < dekar__> actually I want it to have 0Ohm resistance :)
2011-08-22T20:42:25 < dekar__> well it would be even better if it generated power, that would take some load off the usb :D
2011-08-22T20:43:21 < dekar__> jpa-, the actual problem with that guy is that he is sooo slow. we had a prior revision of the product based on an ft2232 and now all he has to do is replace that with an stm32
2011-08-22T20:43:33 < dekar__> so far he has been working on that for half a year
2011-08-22T20:43:46 < Steffanx> yy
2011-08-22T20:43:47 < Steffanx> yay
2011-08-22T20:43:52 < dekar__> I guess I could have learned some EE basics during that time if I wanted
2011-08-22T20:45:10 < Steffanx> poor you
2011-08-22T20:56:56 < dekar__> Steffanx, I have seen some HF boards with really tiny smd 0Ohm resistors right before the SMA connector - do those serve any purpose?
2011-08-22T20:57:33 < Steffanx> No, but i'm not really into HF
2011-08-22T20:58:53 < jpa-> it can do magic :)
2011-08-22T20:58:56 < jpa-> RF is magic :)
2011-08-22T20:59:22 < Steffanx> No, HF/RF is no magic :)
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2011-08-22T21:12:54 < dekar__> Steffanx, HF isn't, but all those IC using it contain magic smoke!
2011-08-22T21:34:45 < dekar__> Steffanx, lol HP is trolling: http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/rts_tablet/rts_tablet/1/storefronts/FB355UA%2523ABA
2011-08-22T21:35:00 < Steffanx> why?
2011-08-22T21:35:09 < Steffanx> Out of stock ?
2011-08-22T21:35:14 < dekar__> they just had a $300 price drop
2011-08-22T21:35:19 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-08-22T21:35:19 < dekar__> everything is sold out
2011-08-22T21:35:24 < Steffanx> Ofcourse
2011-08-22T21:35:28 < Steffanx> Now everyone wants one
2011-08-22T21:35:30  * Steffanx too
2011-08-22T21:35:41 < dekar__> their stocks will drop
2011-08-22T21:36:05 < Steffanx> I probably can't get one here in europe
2011-08-22T21:36:06 < dekar__> I don't get it, they could have charged at least twice the price
2011-08-22T21:36:07 < Steffanx> Not for 99$
2011-08-22T21:36:20 < Steffanx> They want to get rid of it..
2011-08-22T21:36:34 < dekar__> I would have bought a HP pre3 for 150€
2011-08-22T21:36:58 < Steffanx> I would've bought that touchpad for 100e
2011-08-22T21:37:07 < Steffanx> or less
2011-08-22T21:37:36 < dekar__> they sold the pre3 for 80€ at the german store
2011-08-22T21:37:40 < dekar__> but everything is gone
2011-08-22T21:37:47 < Steffanx> And yay, Seeedstudio shipped my board :)
2011-08-22T21:37:52 < dekar__> neat :D
2011-08-22T21:37:56 < Steffanx> I wonder how flexible a 0.8mm pcb is
2011-08-22T21:38:12 < dekar__> lol try breaking it
2011-08-22T21:50:37 < dekar__> Steffanx, just ordered two of them at some german store :D
2011-08-22T21:51:02 < dekar__> they said they can't promise they'll have them available though :/
2011-08-22T21:55:12 < Steffanx> Fuck germany :P
2011-08-22T22:14:11 < dekar__> want to buy one? :P
2011-08-22T22:18:48 < dekar__> Steffanx, 150€ just for you
2011-08-22T22:18:56 < dekar__> plus shipping ofc :D
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2011-08-22T23:35:41 < dekar__> Steffanx, am I not merciful? :)
--- Day changed Tue Aug 23 2011
2011-08-23T00:53:17 < Steffanx> Uhm, no?
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--- Log opened Tue Aug 23 03:19:48 2011
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2011-08-23T13:09:54 < Steffanx> dekar is also going for a HP Pre-3 smart phone
2011-08-23T13:10:07 < Steffanx> For only 75 euro
2011-08-23T13:10:11 < Steffanx> ?
2011-08-23T13:10:19 < dekar> :D
2011-08-23T13:10:40 < dekar> you have to pay 150€ if you want one :P
2011-08-23T13:10:44 < Steffanx> Noway
2011-08-23T13:11:16 < Steffanx> HP sucks, they also sell that phone in NL
2011-08-23T13:11:24 < Steffanx> I'd like to have a nice phone for 'only 75 euro
2011-08-23T13:42:53 < dekar> I'd give you one for the price of two :D
2011-08-23T14:13:22 -!- You're now known as jpa-
2011-08-23T14:20:52 < Steffanx> No thanks
2011-08-23T14:21:01 < Steffanx> That's not even an offer :P
2011-08-23T14:22:46 < Steffanx> Whoa, nice weather here
2011-08-23T14:22:53 < Steffanx> It's dark in some places in NL
2011-08-23T14:23:08 < Steffanx> And it was 12.00
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2011-08-26T13:37:11 < Steffann> Silence...
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2011-08-29T00:14:53 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used shutdown mode?
2011-08-29T00:15:11 < Steffanx> I tried it, but it made swd non-functional
2011-08-29T00:15:12 < Laurenceb_> im trying to work out if gpio remains powered
2011-08-29T00:15:18 < Steffanx> So i removed it
2011-08-29T00:15:57 < Laurenceb_> im guessing it must for the wakeup pin to work right?
2011-08-29T00:16:37 < Steffanx> And the RTC and one another pin iirc
2011-08-29T00:16:47 < Steffanx> Its in the datasheet/reference manual somewhere
2011-08-29T00:16:56 < Laurenceb_> well RTC pins - portc are another voltage domain
2011-08-29T00:17:11 < Laurenceb_> it says the 1.8v domain is powered down, but doesnt mention anything else
2011-08-29T00:17:18 < Laurenceb_> so im guessing the gpio is powered
2011-08-29T00:17:38 < Laurenceb_> i need to gpio pin to control the power supply
2011-08-29T00:18:11 < Laurenceb_> im implimenting a shutdown/sleep mode where the stm32 is powered off a ldo rather than a switching supply off the battery pack
2011-08-29T00:18:38 < Laurenceb_> to get the quiescent current right down
2011-08-29T00:19:23 < Laurenceb_> RTC and everything on PORTC can run off the backup battery input
2011-08-29T00:20:57 < Laurenceb_> but im not going to bother with that, just a gpio to disable switching supply and enable ldo when it goes to shutdown
2011-08-29T00:23:10 < Laurenceb_> but this does require the gpio to remain powered once the device is in shutdown
2011-08-29T01:03:03 -!- izua__ [~izua@93-62-49-199.ip21.fastwebnet.it] has joined ##stm32
2011-08-29T01:03:49 < izua__> ohai
2011-08-29T01:04:20 < Steffanx> izua__ in italy?
2011-08-29T01:05:23 < izua__> shit
2011-08-29T01:05:26 < izua__> hax0r
2011-08-29T01:05:38 < izua__> there some sh.it in my vhost, ain't there?
2011-08-29T01:05:44 < Steffanx> Yep
2011-08-29T01:06:15 < Steffanx> ip + hostname :)
2011-08-29T01:06:18 < izua__> well i have a notebook with password[30+]
2011-08-29T01:06:22 < Steffanx> Uhm
2011-08-29T01:06:26 < Steffanx> not a hostname
2011-08-29T01:06:29 < izua__> and ofc it has the freenode passwords
2011-08-29T01:06:48 < izua__> and it's not over here, so i can't ident, so i can't +o myself so i can kickban you for haxoring me
2011-08-29T01:07:09 < Steffanx> Why are you here anyway?
2011-08-29T01:07:10 < Steffanx> :P
2011-08-29T01:07:16 < izua__> here?
2011-08-29T01:07:28 < Steffanx> #####stm32
2011-08-29T01:07:29 < izua__> travelling, dragged along with dad, etc
2011-08-29T01:07:38 < izua__> got wireless internet and .irssi-config
2011-08-29T01:07:59 < izua__> and also rather board
2011-08-29T01:08:01 < izua__> and AC is out
2011-08-29T01:08:13 < Steffanx> So which other countries you plan to visit?
2011-08-29T01:08:31 < izua__> none, since i don't have that kind of money to waste :P
2011-08-29T01:08:52 < Steffanx> You can walk :)
2011-08-29T01:08:55 < izua__> but i'll try to mildly influence his following decision to something northern
2011-08-29T01:09:13 < izua__> well, and i can also cycle
2011-08-29T01:09:26 < izua__> thought of that but there's 600km to the nearest border
2011-08-29T01:10:01 < izua__> so 8 hrs @ 20kmh, which is sustained pedalling, you get what, 160km per day, or one week till i'm out of this country, etc :P
2011-08-29T01:10:29 < Steffanx> Why did you go that far into italy?
2011-08-29T01:10:57 < izua__> how far?
2011-08-29T01:11:06 < Steffanx> At least 600km :P
2011-08-29T01:11:06 < izua__> maybe i'm at the eastmost point
2011-08-29T01:11:24 < izua__> hah
2011-08-29T01:11:27 < izua__> travelling, as i said
2011-08-29T01:11:53 < izua__> i actually love that, but i usually do it locally and as cheap as possible
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2011-08-29T15:57:44 < Laurenceb_> anyone here?
2011-08-29T16:00:35 < Steffanx> No
2011-08-29T16:26:20 < Laurenceb_> im trying to work out if i can do wireless firmware upgrades with bluetooth
2011-08-29T16:26:35 < Laurenceb_> can you set the RTS pin on bluetooth modules using RFCOMM?
2011-08-29T16:33:00 < Steffanx> Whats rfcomm?
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2011-08-30T14:50:20 < Vaati_> oh my, it seems 2 people will have their firmware stolen twice ...
2011-08-30T14:50:33 < Vaati_> (see: /topic)
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2011-08-30T15:09:03 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 6 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
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2011-08-30T19:28:19 < grummund> "regrettably the bootloader can't be disabled"
2011-08-30T19:28:27 < grummund> is this true? :-O
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2011-08-31T23:54:58 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used SDIO?
--- Log closed Thu Sep 01 00:00:43 2011