--- Log opened Thu Sep 01 00:00:43 2011
2011-09-01T00:25:53 < Steffanx> dekar__ probably?
2011-09-01T00:30:13 < dekar__> not yet
2011-09-01T00:30:23 < dekar__> I plan on doing so though
2011-09-01T00:30:50 < dekar__> the demo firmware that came with my board did some SDIO checks - killed my FS :/
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2011-09-01T00:54:12 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-09-01T00:54:25 < Laurenceb_> can stm32 wake on usb insertion?
2011-09-01T00:54:42 < Laurenceb_> or would i need to add something to pulse WKUP low on usb insertion
2011-09-01T00:58:55 < dekar__> Laurenceb, just power it using usb and it will boot up on plug :D
2011-09-01T00:59:17 < Laurenceb_> its powered off a battery
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2011-09-02T16:25:09 < dekar_> Steffanx, that guy doing the schematics just told me he ran out of pins - WTH?
2011-09-02T16:26:48 < Steffanx> pins?
2011-09-02T16:27:20 < dekar_> uhm GPIO
2011-09-02T16:28:18 < Steffanx> Most of the time you select a chip when you know the needs don't you?!
2011-09-02T16:29:27 < Steffanx> You already use the biggest package dekar_ ?
2011-09-02T16:29:56 < Steffanx> tqfp144 ftw
2011-09-02T16:36:26 < dekar_> Steffanx, well we were planning on using the LQFP64 one
2011-09-02T16:37:03 < dekar_> idk, I am no EE guy, would have taken the BGA one just to have a ton of spare pins
2011-09-02T16:37:20 < dekar_> but this guy didn't seem to like BGA
2011-09-02T16:37:44 < dekar_> the last product had like 16 I/Os - based on the ft2232
2011-09-02T16:37:56 < dekar_> I don't see how he managed to use so many more this time
2011-09-02T16:39:41 < Steffanx> BGA sucks.. if you have to solder it by hand :P
2011-09-02T16:43:01 < dekar_> we don't
2011-09-02T16:43:48 < Laurenceb> can you do BGA with a hot air tool?
2011-09-02T16:44:18 < Steffanx> CAN
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2011-09-02T17:08:06 < jpa-> BGA sucks also with commercial manufacture.. i have seen so many devices break just because of bad BGA solder joints
2011-09-02T17:20:17 < Steffanx> Nah, that only happens to nvidi
2011-09-02T17:20:18 < Steffanx> a
2011-09-02T17:44:13 < Laurenceb> erm xbox360 anyone
2011-09-02T17:51:45 < Steffanx> That's something i'll never buy
2011-09-02T18:08:50 < jpa-> well, usually anything that heats a lot
2011-09-02T18:09:17 < jpa-> LQFN is prone to that too.. often happens in laptop power supply segment
2011-09-02T18:12:23 < Laurenceb> leaded components allow for expansion
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2011-09-02T18:13:01 < jpa-> yeah
2011-09-02T18:13:19 < jpa-> BGA is a tradeoff.. only worth it when size is very critical
2011-09-02T18:15:21 < dekar_> jpa-, I don't think it's more expensive to do bga if you have to use pick and place anyway
2011-09-02T18:16:57 < jpa-> dekar_: i didn't say anything about cost :)
2011-09-02T18:17:12 < dekar_> jpa-, what did you mean then?
2011-09-02T18:17:24 < dekar_> tradeof between what?
2011-09-02T18:17:36 < jpa-> more difficult to solder reliably -> more broken devices
2011-09-02T18:17:40 < jpa-> and more difficult to debug
2011-09-02T18:18:26 < dekar_> is the reliability a problem when doing it in an SMD oven?
2011-09-02T18:19:37 < jpa-> if your device may be exposed to temperature variations in use, yes
2011-09-02T18:20:46 < jpa-> if it is an already complete (no debugging necessary) device that is only going to be used in room temperature and it doesn't generate any considerable heat, then, maybe, BGA doesn't have any bad sides :P
2011-09-02T18:20:58 < dekar_> shouldn't BGA provide a better connection since more pads provide a bigger surface to keep the component in place?
2011-09-02T18:21:16 < jpa-> that is exactly the problem
2011-09-02T18:21:16 < dekar_> well the stm32 never gets hot
2011-09-02T18:21:47 < jpa-> no, but your power supply might, or sunlight might heat it, or winter might cool it :)
2011-09-02T18:21:52 < dekar_> jpa-, oh you mean it can't move when temperature changes :/
2011-09-02T18:21:55 < jpa-> yeah
2011-09-02T18:23:58 < Laurenceb> some devices use tons of epoxy over the bga
2011-09-02T18:24:18 < Laurenceb> i used to think that was to stop hacking, but i think its to improve reliability
2011-09-02T18:24:58  * grummund can vouch for stm32 getting hot with 12V applied to an i/o pin ;)
2011-09-02T18:25:04 < Steffanx> lol
2011-09-02T18:25:55 < jpa-> the HP laptops are funny, they have this red glue around BGA chips.. because they have screwed up the heatsink, and they want to keep the chips in place *while* letting the solder melt :P
2011-09-02T18:26:29 < jpa-> atleast it makes them easier to repair, just need to point a hot air gun on the chip :P
2011-09-02T18:26:58 < Laurenceb> wait in use the chips get hot enough to melt the solder?!
2011-09-02T18:27:13 < jpa-> not really
2011-09-02T18:27:34 < jpa-> but they sometimes do :)
2011-09-02T18:28:05 < jpa-> (and one guy online has written how to repair them by taking off the heatsink and running the computer in order to melt the solder :P
2011-09-02T18:28:39 < grummund> ok, but that's with the heatsink off :P
2011-09-02T18:29:08 < grummund> interesting strategy though
2011-09-02T18:29:25 < jpa-> yeah
2011-09-02T18:30:01 < jpa-> the hp pavilion is so much full of fail.. there is a 1mm thick piece of silicon between the GPU and the heat sink
2011-09-02T18:30:52 < jpa-> then they "fixed" the problem by issuing a bios update that always runs the fan at full speed, to account for the crappy heat conduction
2011-09-02T18:31:03 < dekar_> -.-
2011-09-02T18:31:34 < dekar_> did I mention I am in a bus right now tethering with my laptop? works astonishingly well :D
2011-09-02T18:33:02 < dekar_> but got to leave the train in about 10min
2011-09-02T18:36:37 < dekar_> *bus :)
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2011-09-03T18:40:57 < jpa-> what is the nicest library for STM32 USART? i'd prefer something which uses DMA for FIFO.
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2011-09-03T21:55:04 < Steffanx> So you all enrolled for the AI class yet? http://www.ai-class.com/ :)
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2011-09-04T02:14:38 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: st perif lib is nice
2011-09-04T02:14:50 < Laurenceb_> or if you want an rtos as well, chibios is piss easy
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2011-09-04T10:37:46 < jpa-> hmm, been using freertos so far
2011-09-04T10:37:52 < jpa-> but chibios does have some nice drivers
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2011-09-04T17:46:21 <+izua> so yeah.
2011-09-04T17:46:22 <+izua> hi.
2011-09-04T17:51:10 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: thanks for the tip, chibios looks great
2011-09-04T18:05:23  * biot the lurker also saw jpa's comment, and now has chibios running 
2011-09-04T18:19:07 < Steffanx> How well does chibios work?
2011-09-04T18:20:47 < jpa-> the tests compiled and ran very easily, thats all i know for now :)
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2011-09-05T15:28:51 < dekar_> http://pastebin.com/un8AvFiH
2011-09-05T15:56:47 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2011-09-05T15:57:43 < Laurenceb> sexual harassment fail
2011-09-05T15:59:27 < dekar_> it got waii better: http://pastebin.com/2DgYNQ4L
2011-09-05T15:59:37 < dekar_> hey, she started calling me dear
2011-09-05T16:00:21 < dekar_> I seriously have a spam problem, all those chinese companies send me spam like that :/
2011-09-05T16:02:16 < dekar_> besides I am pretty sure those people are fake, why would they all be female and have western names like "linda"?
2011-09-05T16:02:51 < Laurenceb> heh
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2011-09-05T21:20:20 <+izua> because marketing!
2011-09-05T21:21:03 < Steffanx> izua is back!
2011-09-05T21:21:11 < jpa-> izua is front!
2011-09-05T21:21:12 <+izua> hey
2011-09-05T21:21:38 < Steffanx> That's my response jpa- :P
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2011-09-06T17:52:12 < Steffann> hmm, 0.8mm pcb is less flexible than i expected
2011-09-06T18:03:12 < jpa-> isn't that good?
2011-09-06T18:03:36 < Steffann> It's good.. i expected it to be more flexible
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2011-09-09T16:55:40 < Steffanx> Back alive grummund ?
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2011-09-09T19:14:23 < Laurenceb_> does stm32 have 2 adcs?
2011-09-09T19:15:11 < jpa-> some stm32f103 models do, atleast
2011-09-09T19:15:35 < jpa-> discovery doesn't :P
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2011-09-11T18:08:57 <+izua> o_O
2011-09-11T18:08:59 <+izua> where's elias
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2011-09-12T21:57:23 < Steffanx> !seen dekar
2011-09-12T21:57:24 < Steffanx> !seen dekar_
2011-09-12T22:05:51 < Laurenceb> anyone here used SD cards?
2011-09-12T22:05:56 < Laurenceb> with chibios?
2011-09-12T22:06:11 < Steffanx> Nope
2011-09-12T22:10:34 < Laurenceb> im wondering how much flash their fat32 implimentation uses
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2011-09-12T22:39:07 < jpa-> Laurenceb: elm-chan fatfs (which chibios also uses) is 6kB compiled with -Os
2011-09-12T22:39:30 < Laurenceb> i know
2011-09-12T22:39:37 < Laurenceb> i want to compare to chibios
2011-09-12T22:39:42 < Laurenceb> or does it use the same code?
2011-09-12T22:40:02 < jpa-> chibios uses the same AFAIK
2011-09-12T22:40:07 < jpa-> just different SD-card driver
2011-09-12T22:40:31 < jpa-> http://chibios.sourceforge.net/html/group__external.html
2011-09-12T22:43:47 < Laurenceb> aha
2011-09-12T22:44:52 < Laurenceb> thanks
2011-09-12T22:48:14 < Laurenceb> is it possible to compile chibios with some of the features disabled?
2011-09-12T22:49:49 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2011-09-12T22:49:59 < Laurenceb> ~1KB with minimal kernel nice
2011-09-12T22:50:44 < Laurenceb> http://chibios.sourceforge.net/reports/kernel.txt
2011-09-12T22:50:49 < Laurenceb> 1180bytes
2011-09-12T22:51:56 < Steffanx> whoa, for powerpc it's almost two times bigger
2011-09-12T22:52:26 < Laurenceb> ive got some interrupt driven code - i want to add tasks as itll be a little nicer
2011-09-12T22:52:39 < Laurenceb> but only a few KB left on my 128KB device :/
2011-09-12T22:53:47 < Laurenceb> trying to resist urge to rewrite all the code with crazy number of tasks
2011-09-12T22:53:56 < Laurenceb> itd probably be too big anyway
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2011-09-13T14:35:37 < Laurenceb_> yo all
2011-09-13T14:39:16 < Laurenceb_> i want to nest interrupts, has anyone done this?
2011-09-13T14:41:03 < Steffanx> I think i sort of did that
2011-09-13T14:41:12 < Steffanx> I'm not sure though
2011-09-13T14:41:14 < Laurenceb_> cool
2011-09-13T14:41:20 < Laurenceb_> do you have some example code?
2011-09-13T14:41:42 < Laurenceb_> actually its more complex that that for me - i want to disable one of the interrupts
2011-09-13T14:41:46 < Steffanx> I played a little with interrupt priorities + priority groups
2011-09-13T14:42:08 < Steffanx> I'm still not sure if the interrupts are 'nested' thougj
2011-09-13T14:42:09 < Steffanx> h
2011-09-13T14:42:12 < Laurenceb_> is it possible to disable an interrupt in the NVIC and still have e.g. the EXTI config setup
2011-09-13T14:42:28 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/interrupts.c
2011-09-13T14:42:32 < Laurenceb_> thats my code at
2011-09-13T14:42:51 < Laurenceb_> line57, you see i clear the interrupt pending bit first thing
2011-09-13T14:43:15 < Steffanx> I had the sysclk give interrupts every 1 as system timer, a VERY important EXTI overruled that interrupt
2011-09-13T14:43:27 < Steffanx> At least that was the idea
2011-09-13T14:43:43 < Laurenceb_> that means if the isr fires again during the servicing, it will run again as soon as the isr returns
2011-09-13T14:44:17 < Laurenceb_> problem is if i enabled nesting, i could get infinite nesting for the EXTI9_5 ISR
2011-09-13T14:44:27 < Steffanx> I guess so
2011-09-13T14:44:28 < Laurenceb_> so id need to disable EXTI9_5
2011-09-13T14:44:44 < Laurenceb_> NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannelCmd = DISABLE;
2011-09-13T14:45:03 < Steffanx> Nesting is done with that groupconfig isn't it?
2011-09-13T14:45:08 < Steffanx> It's a while ago i wrote that code
2011-09-13T14:45:12 < Laurenceb_> would that disable the ISR, yet still let the EXTI_ITPendingBit be set?
2011-09-13T14:45:23 < Laurenceb_> i dont know, thats why im asking
2011-09-13T14:45:29 < Steffanx> :)
2011-09-13T14:45:40 < Steffanx> I've read some documents about it somewhere
2011-09-13T14:45:44 < Laurenceb_> EXTI and NVIC is completely seperate hardware right?
2011-09-13T14:45:46 < Steffanx> I don't remember where
2011-09-13T14:45:48 < Laurenceb_> ok ill look
2011-09-13T14:46:20 < Laurenceb_> so i can use the EXTI pending bit to 'remember' if an EXTI has fired whilst nesting was enabled
2011-09-13T14:46:37 < Laurenceb_> yet stop the servicing ISR infinitely nesting
2011-09-13T14:47:00 < Steffanx> I think this was the document
2011-09-13T14:47:01 < Steffanx> http://www.hitex.com/fileadmin/pdf/insiders-guides/stm32/isg-stm32-v18d-scr.pdf
2011-09-13T14:47:19 < Laurenceb_> of course i could have an RTOS, but doing this with an RTOS is also nontrivial
2011-09-13T14:47:24 < Laurenceb_> thanks
2011-09-13T14:47:49 < Laurenceb_> i have new data from my imu every 8ms, and it can take up to 10ms to process
2011-09-13T14:48:15 < Laurenceb_> so i have to allow the timing of the processing to lag by up to 2ms
2011-09-13T14:48:24 < Laurenceb_> then recover the lost time later
2011-09-13T14:48:42 < Steffanx> And you really want to process it inside an interrupt?
2011-09-13T14:48:53 < Laurenceb_> as only a few % of the kalman filter iterations take 10ms, most take 7
2011-09-13T14:49:02 < Laurenceb_> no id like to avoid it
2011-09-13T14:49:17 < Laurenceb_> but its not much easier with an RTOS
2011-09-13T14:49:49 < Laurenceb_> i can have the EXTI ISR wake up a task, but that doesnt let me do the timing squew thingy
2011-09-13T14:50:19 < Laurenceb_> also i have very little flash spare - only have a 128KB device avaliable in 48pin
2011-09-13T14:50:48 < Steffanx> If i understand it right 'nesting' only happens when using that 'pre-empting' and a interrupt with a higher priority fires
2011-09-13T14:52:27 < Steffanx> Higher pre-emptying priority (group priority), not sub priority
2011-09-13T14:55:45 < Laurenceb_> section 2.4.5.2.1 ?
2011-09-13T14:56:12 < Laurenceb_> so all i have to do is set the interrupts i want to nest to have higher priority?
2011-09-13T14:56:26 < Steffanx> If i understand it right yes
2011-09-13T14:56:45 < Steffanx> I think you have to be careful not to change the groupconfig all the time
2011-09-13T14:57:02 < Laurenceb_> NVIC_PriorityGroupConfig(NVIC_PriorityGroup_2);
2011-09-13T14:57:15 < Laurenceb_> so i want that to be higher for my other interrupts?
2011-09-13T14:57:36 < Laurenceb_> oh and this also means the same isr cant nest inside itself?
2011-09-13T14:57:40 < Steffanx> No, that config should stay on ..._2
2011-09-13T14:57:55 < Steffanx> I think it can nest itself, by clearing a special bit probably
2011-09-13T14:58:04 < Steffanx> I don't know. :)
2011-09-13T14:58:33 < Laurenceb_> you said"Higher pre-emptying priority (group priority), not sub priority"
2011-09-13T14:58:53 < Steffanx> Yes, i did
2011-09-13T14:59:44 < Steffanx> You use NVIC_PriorityGroupConfig(NVIC_PriorityGroup_2); to set the config of all interrupts
2011-09-13T14:59:54 < Steffanx> See table on the bottom of page 26
2011-09-13T15:00:10 < Steffanx>   NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannelPreemptionPriority = 0x0F;
2011-09-13T15:00:10 < Steffanx>   NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannelSubPriority = 0x0F;
2011-09-13T15:00:21 < Steffanx> Specifies which priority it actually gets
2011-09-13T15:02:13 < Laurenceb_> oh i see
2011-09-13T15:02:24 < Laurenceb_> i dont see the need for the groups then
2011-09-13T15:02:34 < Laurenceb_> but i guess this is all well thought out :P
2011-09-13T15:02:55 < Steffanx> If I understand it right a higher group can overrule a lower one
2011-09-13T15:03:20 < Laurenceb_> wait so the other interrupts need to be in anouter group?
2011-09-13T15:03:49 < Steffanx> Maybe we/you should give it at ry
2011-09-13T15:03:51 < Steffanx> try
2011-09-13T15:04:20 < Steffanx> Fire an interrupt with an endless loop and try to fire another interrupt
2011-09-13T15:04:32 < Steffanx> There's an example project
2011-09-13T15:05:06  * jpa- steals Laurenceb_'s 0x05FA0000
2011-09-13T15:05:17 < Steffanx> ??!
2011-09-13T15:05:52 < Laurenceb_> i dont have the hardware here
2011-09-13T15:06:11 < Laurenceb_> but atm there is only one interrupt, and it doesnt nest in itself
2011-09-13T15:06:28 < Laurenceb_> if i fires again whilst it is running, it runs twice
2011-09-13T15:06:46 < Laurenceb_> which is what i want the behaviour of that isr to be
2011-09-13T15:07:00 < Laurenceb_> but i want to allow a second ISR to nest inside it
2011-09-13T15:10:14 < Laurenceb_> maybe the reference manual will be more clear
2011-09-13T15:12:34 < jpa-> higher priority interrupts should nest
2011-09-13T15:14:49 < Steffanx> Group priorities.. not sub priority afaik
2011-09-13T15:17:04 < Laurenceb_> NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannelPreemptionPriority = 0x0F;
2011-09-13T15:17:13 < Laurenceb_> ^thats the group priority right?
2011-09-13T15:17:17 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-09-13T15:17:24 < Laurenceb_> i see
2011-09-13T15:17:32 < Laurenceb_> grrr i left the board at home :P
2011-09-13T15:17:37 < Laurenceb_> or id try this
2011-09-13T15:17:40 < Steffanx> group priority = pre-empting priority
2011-09-13T15:18:07 < Laurenceb_> ok ok i get it now :P
2011-09-13T15:18:10 < Steffanx> I depends on the priority group you selected which values you can give NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannelPreemptionPriority
2011-09-13T15:18:23 < Laurenceb_> yeah i see
2011-09-13T17:02:24 -!- biot [~bert@kiutl.biot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2011-09-13T19:41:54 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx:"When the processor is executing an exception handler, the exception handler is preempted
2011-09-13T19:41:54 < Laurenceb_> if a higher priority exception occurs. If an exception occurs with the same priority as the
2011-09-13T19:41:54 < Laurenceb_> exception being handled, the handler is not preempted, irrespective of the exception
2011-09-13T19:41:54 < Laurenceb_> number. However, the status of the new interrupt changes to pending.
2011-09-13T19:41:54 < Laurenceb_> "
2011-09-13T19:42:00 < Laurenceb_> oops tons of lines
2011-09-13T19:42:24 < Laurenceb_> page 38 on the cortex m3 programming manual
2011-09-13T19:42:46 < Steffanx> Yeah, isn't that sort of what i said?
2011-09-13T19:43:01 < Laurenceb_> yes :P
2011-09-13T19:43:08 < Laurenceb_> also the behaviour i want
2011-09-13T19:43:12 < Laurenceb_> nice :D
2011-09-13T19:43:45 < Laurenceb_> all the prioritisation and stuff done in hardware, no need for RTOS :P
2011-09-13T19:44:27 < jpa-> on the other hand, no locking primitives for sharing data between the handlers :)
2011-09-13T19:44:36 < Steffanx> I wonder if rtos for example can use that system
2011-09-13T19:44:48 < Laurenceb_> my imu reader can set in the imu ready isr and uart isr can pre-empts it
2011-09-13T19:44:54 < Laurenceb_> *sit
2011-09-13T19:45:45 < jpa-> Steffanx: yes; atleast FreeRTOS and ChibiOS support interrupt priorities.. and by default they leave half of the interrupts above the "OS lock priority", so even if the OS is inside a critical section, a high-priority interrupt can occur as long as it doesn't use the OS functions
2011-09-13T19:46:06 < jpa-> *half of the interrupt priorities
2011-09-13T19:47:26 < Steffanx> I mean by using the real hw jpa-
2011-09-13T19:47:35 < Laurenceb_> yeah my problem is i want to allow the imu servicing to lag the imu data ready by up to 2ms
2011-09-13T19:48:06 < Laurenceb_> i cant work out how to do that with an rtos by waking up a thread with the isr
2011-09-13T19:48:20 < jpa-> Steffanx: yes, they use the real hw
2011-09-13T19:48:46 < Laurenceb_> hmm actually if i disable NVIC whilst the imu servacing thread is running
2011-09-13T19:48:55 < jpa-> Steffanx: AFAIK they don't even support any software emulation of interrupt priorities, because that would be awfully slow
2011-09-13T19:49:00 < Steffanx> Ah ok
2011-09-13T19:49:08 < Laurenceb_> - disable NVIC EXTI input
2011-09-13T19:49:55 < Laurenceb_> if the EXTI is enabled with NVIC disabled. and the EXTI has fired, will the NVIC trigger the isr as soon as it is reenabled?
2011-09-13T19:50:28 < Steffanx> Test it :)
2011-09-13T19:51:45 < Laurenceb_> bbl
2011-09-13T19:54:46 < Steffanx> bb
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2011-09-14T12:46:01 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used SWEXTI interrupts?
2011-09-14T12:46:19 < Laurenceb_> im wondering if i can have one with no attached input pin
2011-09-14T13:02:57 < dekar_> I've barely used interrupts on the stm32 so far :/
2011-09-14T13:06:15 < Steffanx> ?!
2011-09-14T13:06:35 < Steffanx> n00b dekar_ :P
2011-09-14T13:07:10  * Laurenceb_ is planning to (ab)use the NVIC as an RTOS replacement
2011-09-14T13:07:57 < Steffanx> An quadrocopter doesn't need an rtos anyway
2011-09-14T13:08:28 < Laurenceb_> indeed
2011-09-14T13:09:08 < grummund> who's building an quadrocopter?
2011-09-14T13:09:12 < Laurenceb_> nonone
2011-09-14T13:09:20 < Laurenceb_> im building a fixed wing uav :P
2011-09-14T13:09:22 < Steffanx> Uhm, i mean that plane from you :P
2011-09-14T13:09:54 < Laurenceb_> s/building a plane/spending ages optimising kalman filter code
2011-09-14T13:10:01 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: if you want it pre-emptible, you need to write everything as a state machine :)
2011-09-14T13:10:20 < Laurenceb_> yeah... kind of
2011-09-14T13:10:28 < jpa-> oh, i still have that ahead of me, i'm still writing communication protocols :D
2011-09-14T13:10:40 < Laurenceb_> oh thats the hard bit
2011-09-14T13:10:44 < Steffanx> What is jpa- buidling?
2011-09-14T13:10:56 < Laurenceb_> ive spent most of my time on that to impliment uavtalk
2011-09-14T13:11:01 < jpa-> Steffanx: teh boat
2011-09-14T13:11:13 < Laurenceb_> thats part of the reason for the nvic stuff
2011-09-14T13:11:15 < Steffanx> A boat needs a kalman filter-ish system?
2011-09-14T13:11:19 < Laurenceb_> autonamous boat?
2011-09-14T13:11:27 < jpa-> autonomous, yeah
2011-09-14T13:11:31 < Laurenceb_> sweet
2011-09-14T13:11:42 < Laurenceb_> motorised or sail?
2011-09-14T13:11:45 < jpa-> i'm trying to enhance gps precision with accelerometer measurements
2011-09-14T13:11:55 < Steffanx> I'd like to build a submarine once, just don't know how yet
2011-09-14T13:12:02 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Control/ekf.c
2011-09-14T13:12:03 < jpa-> motor (awfully underpowered motors now.. should figure out better propeller system)
2011-09-14T13:12:09  * Laurenceb_ just grabbed that
2011-09-14T13:12:35 < Steffanx> Whaaa, Laurenceb_
2011-09-14T13:13:03 < Steffanx> No way i even tried to write that CovariancePrediction function
2011-09-14T13:13:25 < jpa-> i might just pick some small linear algebra library
2011-09-14T13:13:40 < jpa-> is not like i have to calculate stuff at 100 HZ, 1 Hz is fine for a boat
2011-09-14T13:13:42 < Steffanx> Seriously, that code is silly
2011-09-14T13:14:14 < Laurenceb_> why?
2011-09-14T13:14:17 < Laurenceb_> its awesome
2011-09-14T13:14:45 < Steffanx> 1000 lines of code..
2011-09-14T13:14:57 < Laurenceb_> so? it works
2011-09-14T13:15:06 < Steffanx> Yeah, but it's unmaintainable
2011-09-14T13:15:29 < jpa-> atleast it is beautiful
2011-09-14T13:15:30 < Laurenceb_> CRTL-c-CTRL-p
2011-09-14T13:15:37 < jpa-> this is plain ugly https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/nanopb/generator/nanopb_generator.py
2011-09-14T13:16:31 < Steffanx> A generator for what jpa- ?
2011-09-14T13:16:34  * dekar_ is scared by that CovariancePrediction function
2011-09-14T13:17:03 < jpa-> Steffanx: a generator for C code from .proto interface description
2011-09-14T13:21:12 < Steffanx> me too dekar_
2011-09-14T13:25:24 < jpa-> CovariancePrediction so horrible that it is great
2011-09-14T13:25:34 < jpa-> if there only was a haskell or lisp script generating it
2011-09-14T13:26:16 < jpa-> so that both the generating script and the generated code are equally obscure, but atleast you need to go through two abstraction levels :)
2011-09-14T13:27:47 < Steffanx> haskell..
2011-09-14T13:35:58 < Laurenceb_> this sucks
2011-09-14T13:36:29 < Laurenceb_> the ST periferal driver doesnt let me set the EXTI mode to "not rising or falling"
2011-09-14T13:36:49 < Steffanx> Huh?
2011-09-14T13:36:59 < Steffanx> You mean level change?
2011-09-14T13:37:02 < Laurenceb_> i want to have a software interrupt
2011-09-14T13:37:07 < Laurenceb_> using SWEXTI
2011-09-14T13:37:30 < Laurenceb_> but the EXTI controller always has to be attached to a pin source
2011-09-14T13:37:47 < Steffanx>  Yes?
2011-09-14T13:37:48 < Laurenceb_> wait...
2011-09-14T13:38:09 < Laurenceb_> cant i bypass the EXTI and set pending bits directly in the NVIC?
2011-09-14T13:38:19 < ziph> Laurenceb_: Do you have a decent text on Kalman filtering?
2011-09-14T13:38:28 < dekar_> what are you planning to do? just use the systick
2011-09-14T13:39:15 < Steffanx> ziph!
2011-09-14T13:39:30 < Steffanx> You where the one with that 'great' power supply switch chip weren't you?
2011-09-14T13:39:31 < ziph> Steffanx: Steffanx! :)
2011-09-14T13:39:39 < ziph> The quiet one?
2011-09-14T13:39:53 < Steffanx> quiet one?!
2011-09-14T13:40:04 < ziph> The LT1777 low noise.
2011-09-14T13:42:51 < Steffanx> No, that's not what i meant :)
2011-09-14T13:43:04 < ziph> Ohhh, the TI chip.
2011-09-14T13:43:05 < Steffanx> Or was it another ziph
2011-09-14T13:43:18 < Steffanx> I meant a chip to select a power supply
2011-09-14T13:43:24 < Steffanx> two in, one out :)
2011-09-14T13:43:37 < Steffanx> Power supply multiplexer or whatever it's called
2011-09-14T13:43:41 < ziph> Yeap, TPS2111 or TPS2112.
2011-09-14T13:44:39 < Steffanx> Bleh, ti down
2011-09-14T13:44:53 < ziph> The TPS2112 has a status output pin (which you can use for a USB device so that the device tells the host if it is bus powered or self powered).
2011-09-14T13:45:16 < ziph> TI is up for me.
2011-09-14T13:45:30 < ziph> Oh, only due to caching. :)
2011-09-14T13:45:36 < Steffanx> The page you find with google isn't available
2011-09-14T13:45:46 < Steffanx> *wasn't
2011-09-14T13:45:51 < ziph> http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tps2112
2011-09-14T13:46:15 < ziph> And http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps2111.pdf
2011-09-14T13:46:33 < ziph> There are a few other versions in that family, but those are the ones most useful for USB.
2011-09-14T13:46:34 < Steffanx> I just one to make a little usb + battery powered device
2011-09-14T13:47:02 < ziph> Rechargable battery?
2011-09-14T13:47:39 < Steffanx> Maybe
2011-09-14T13:48:18 < ziph> If you're using a rechargeable battery there are fancier ones that might be more suitable (that manage the charging).
2011-09-14T13:48:52 < Steffanx> I just want to give the lc-meter i plan to make a fancy usb port :)
2011-09-14T13:56:06 < Steffanx> Everything needs usb nowadays
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2011-09-14T14:37:07 < Laurenceb_> http://read.pudn.com/downloads100/sourcecode/embed/411532/STM32_USART_Irq/Usart.c__.htm
2011-09-14T14:37:15 < Laurenceb_> i dont understand how that could work
2011-09-14T14:37:35 < Laurenceb_> if the usart has sent all the data, then new data is sent, it will be loaded into the buffer
2011-09-14T14:37:45 < Laurenceb_> but nothing will be sent to the usart
2011-09-14T14:37:54 < Laurenceb_> so there will be no interrupts firing?
2011-09-14T14:42:00 < Steffanx> It will 'generate' an interrupt
2011-09-14T14:42:33 < Steffanx> Uhm, no.. i'm not sure
2011-09-14T14:42:37 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-09-14T14:56:56 < Laurenceb_> aha
2011-09-14T14:57:06 < Laurenceb_> static __INLINE void NVIC_SetPendingIRQ(IRQn_Type IRQn)
2011-09-14T14:57:12 < Laurenceb_> in core_cm3.h
2011-09-14T14:57:43 < Laurenceb_> you can use that to generate software interrupts using only the NVIC
2011-09-14T14:57:49 < Laurenceb_> no need for SWEXTI
2011-09-14T14:58:17 < Laurenceb_> which makes me wonder why SWEXTI exists
2011-09-14T15:02:31 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K88u-cXXfMk&feature=related
2011-09-14T15:39:34 < dekar_> lol look at the price difference XD
2011-09-14T15:39:36 < dekar_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/3power.png
2011-09-14T15:40:01 < dekar_> I feel like I should get real stocks
2011-09-14T15:40:16 < Steffanx> What's 3power blalba?
2011-09-14T15:40:28 < dekar_> some company?
2011-09-14T15:40:42 < dekar_> I bought 1000 stocks yesterday
2011-09-14T15:41:03 < Steffanx> From that company?
2011-09-14T15:41:07 < dekar_> yeah
2011-09-14T15:41:17 < Steffanx> Lucky you..
2011-09-14T15:41:26 < Steffanx> Even with this news about greece
2011-09-14T15:41:28 < dekar_> but that's just some game I play - no real money
2011-09-14T15:41:38 < Steffanx> Ah, poor you
2011-09-14T15:41:40 < dekar_> real stock market though
2011-09-14T15:41:48 < dekar_> so I could have bought them for real
2011-09-14T15:41:50 < dekar_> :/
2011-09-14T15:42:29 < Steffanx> Google plus.. weird shit
2011-09-14T15:42:32 < dekar_> a co-worker told me they'd go up - though he was too afraid to buy them
2011-09-14T15:42:49 < Steffanx> My name was "S W", google suspended my account because you have to use your real name
2011-09-14T15:42:51 < dekar_> no we're both sad we didn't buy them for real
2011-09-14T15:42:59 < Steffanx> So i changed it to "Es Wee" and now it's not suspended anymore
2011-09-14T15:43:04 < dekar_> so use your real name XD
2011-09-14T15:43:08 < dekar_> lol
2011-09-14T15:43:50 < Steffanx> A big community here also used the community name as account name
2011-09-14T15:43:54 < Steffanx> "Tweakers"
2011-09-14T15:44:12 < Steffanx> Google suspended that account to, so they changed the name to "Henk van Tweakers"
2011-09-14T15:44:16 < Steffanx> *too
2011-09-14T15:45:23 < dekar_> just wait till they catch up
2011-09-14T15:46:11 < Steffanx> It's silly anyway
2011-09-14T15:46:17 < Steffanx> A community has no 'real name'
2011-09-14T15:46:24 < Steffanx> *web  community
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2011-09-16T13:56:32 < dekar_> "Security Note   When reading a string with sscanf, always specify a width for the %s format (for example, "32%s" instead of "%s"); otherwise, improperly formatted input can easily cause a buffer overrun."
2011-09-16T13:56:51 < dekar_> shouldn't it be "%32s"?
2011-09-16T14:07:40 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-09-16T14:08:11 < Steffanx> Where do you read that dekar_ ?
2011-09-16T14:08:22 < dekar_> microsoft documentation
2011-09-16T14:08:26 < dekar_> Steffanx,  XD
2011-09-16T14:08:50 < dekar_> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/zkx076cy(v=vs.71).aspx
2011-09-16T14:09:34 < Steffanx> oeps
2011-09-16T14:10:02 < Steffanx> The 2010 version is correct btw
2011-09-16T14:10:09 < Steffanx> When reading a string with sscanf, always specify a width for the %s format (for example, "%32s" instead of "%s"); otherwise, improperly formatted input can easily cause a buffer overrun.
2011-09-16T14:10:10 < Steffanx> :)
2011-09-16T14:11:23 < dekar_> oh - found it using google :/
2011-09-16T14:11:49 < dekar_> I did some stupid mistake using sscanf corrupting my memory
2011-09-16T14:12:19 < dekar_> well, it didn't even result in any bugs, I found it reading the gcc warnings
2011-09-16T14:12:39 < dekar_> my target pointer was char* when sscanf expected int*
2011-09-16T14:13:28 < dekar_> thus it wrote 64bit instead of 8bit :/
2011-09-16T14:13:47 < Steffanx> ha
2011-09-16T14:14:41 < Steffanx> Where it expects int * ?
2011-09-16T14:16:36 < dekar_> sscanf(somestring, "%2x", &intPassword[0]);
2011-09-16T14:16:45 < Steffanx> Ah
2011-09-16T14:17:19 < Steffanx> I never really understand what the point of using "&intPassword[0]" is
2011-09-16T14:17:32 < Steffanx> instead of just "intPassword"
2011-09-16T14:17:43 < dekar_> haha, there is "&intPassword[1]" in the next line ;)
2011-09-16T14:17:51 < Steffanx> Ok, there it is
2011-09-16T14:18:01 < dekar_> and "&intPassword[2]" the line after
2011-09-16T14:18:18 < dekar_> I just wanted to make it look the same
2011-09-16T14:21:10 < Steffanx> Acceptable :)
2011-09-16T14:22:14 < dekar_> I usually prefer readable code over ugly C hacks
2011-09-16T14:23:02 < dekar_> one of my co workers does stuff like that all the time: "int i = 3; while(i) a[i] = b[i--];"
2011-09-16T14:23:09 < dekar_> I hate code like that
2011-09-16T14:24:04 < Steffanx> &intPassword[0] is ugly imho :P
2011-09-16T14:24:11 < Steffanx> When you can use intPassword too
2011-09-16T14:24:42 < dekar_> I disagree - it makes it easier to see which element it uses
2011-09-16T14:25:04 < dekar_> besides the assembly code will look completely different anyway
2011-09-16T14:26:06 < dekar_> the assembly will probably look more like "intPassword+sizeof(int)"
2011-09-16T14:26:10 < Steffanx> I don't really care about hte assembly most of the time :)
2011-09-16T14:26:27 < dekar_> "intPassword+sizeof(int)*elementNum"
2011-09-16T14:26:39 < dekar_> yeah agree
2011-09-16T14:26:53 < dekar_> there are some evil traps though
2011-09-16T14:27:10 < dekar_> C++ sometimes omits the copy constructor when using optimizations
2011-09-16T14:27:19 < dekar_> it just recycles the old object instead
2011-09-16T14:27:43 < dekar_> it does this pretty randomly unless you turn off optimizations
2011-09-16T14:27:51 < dekar_> this is c++ standards compliant btw
2011-09-16T14:28:21 < dekar_> can be helpful to actually see what the compiler does
2011-09-16T14:28:51 < Steffanx> Hmm, i did some basic C++ and i've never seen it
2011-09-16T14:29:23 < dekar_> you won't notice it unless the copy-constructor is important
2011-09-16T14:30:29 < dekar_> but if you do like "globalInt++;" inside the copy constructor, then the result will be different from the unoptimized binary - meaning that less objects have been created
2011-09-16T14:31:17 < dekar_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_value_optimization
2011-09-16T14:31:26 < Steffanx> And why things like that are 'standard compliant' :S
2011-09-16T14:31:58 < dekar_> no idea, C/C++ is uber ugly
2011-09-16T14:32:45 < dekar_> the compiler is effectively allowed to ignore your code in some cases
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 17 00:00:35 2011
--- Log opened Sat Sep 17 00:00:39 2011
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2011-09-17T01:47:50 < Laurenceb> anyone done interrupt driven i2c?
2011-09-17T01:48:01 < Laurenceb> i cant see how to do repeated start properly
2011-09-17T01:53:11 < Steffanx> I never ever did anything with i2c
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2011-09-17T17:28:16 < Steffann> I like weird bugs
2011-09-17T17:38:30 < Steffann> Oops, memset mistake..
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2011-09-17T18:46:34 < Laurenceb> can anyone help with i2c? or has no-one here used it in interrupt mode?
2011-09-17T19:56:37 < ziph> On an STM?
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2011-09-17T22:24:30 < Laurenceb> yes
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2011-09-17T23:22:45 < Laurenceb> if i disable an interrupt inside the isr, will it be 'serviced'?
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2011-09-18T01:08:09 < Laurenceb> wow st are smart
2011-09-18T01:08:30 < Laurenceb> now i see why they have the seperate RXNE/TXE enable bit
2011-09-18T01:08:45 < Laurenceb> makes interrupt driven i2c easier
2011-09-18T01:09:05 < Laurenceb> now if only they could get whoever designed the hardware to write the datasheets as well
2011-09-18T01:09:54 < Laurenceb> the hardware is awesome but its crazy confusing trying to read the ref manual
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2011-09-19T20:03:18 < Steffanx> STM32's don't have input capture like AVR's have do they?
2011-09-19T20:03:40 < Steffanx> They do
2011-09-19T20:42:44 < jpa-> indeed
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2011-09-19T21:33:06 < jpa-> yay it works http://paste.dy.fi/UX2/plain
2011-09-19T21:33:18 < jpa-> (RPC server on stm32 using Protocol Buffers)
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2011-09-20T22:32:54 < dekar_> Steffanx, hey EE guy, what's that thing? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/strange_thingy.png
2011-09-20T22:37:00 < jpa-> the TVS in the part name suggests something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_voltage_suppression_diode
2011-09-20T23:15:39 < dekar_> ah thanks that makes sense, our EE guy mentioned he plans on using some kind of fuse
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2011-09-21T17:26:23 < Steffann> There's also a F4 family now?!
2011-09-21T17:49:12 < Laurenceb_> huh
2011-09-21T17:49:45 < Steffann> Not huh.. it's true :)
2011-09-21T17:49:45 < Laurenceb_> oh wow
2011-09-21T17:50:13 < Steffann> 220mhz stm32
2011-09-21T17:50:25 < Steffann> *220dmips
2011-09-21T17:50:27 < Steffann> 168mhz
2011-09-21T17:50:27 < Laurenceb_> hmm no 48pin
2011-09-21T17:50:27 < Laurenceb_> 48 pin is only F1 :(
2011-09-21T17:50:36 < Steffann> Oeps, 210
2011-09-21T17:50:51 < Steffann> F2 has a 64 pins one.. which is also acceptable :)
2011-09-21T17:51:23 < Laurenceb_> yeah 64pin isnt too bad
2011-09-21T17:51:29 < Steffann> And the f4 family too
2011-09-21T17:51:30 < Laurenceb_> M4 as well XD
2011-09-21T17:51:44 < Steffann> Ah
2011-09-21T17:51:48 < Steffann> Never used m4 though
2011-09-21T17:52:23 < Steffann> I don't even know the difference between m3 and m4
2011-09-21T17:53:00 < BrainDamage> 64 you can do drag soldering
2011-09-21T17:53:12 < BrainDamage> I've seen some in BGA ...
2011-09-21T17:53:32 < Laurenceb_> holy shit bus matrix
2011-09-21T17:53:39 < Laurenceb_> thatll speed things up
2011-09-21T17:53:59 < Laurenceb_> better dma as well
2011-09-21T17:54:21 < Laurenceb_> does codesourcery support M4 ?
2011-09-21T17:55:08 < Laurenceb_> they have 25ma current GPIO as well
2011-09-21T17:55:22 < Laurenceb_> that thing owns
2011-09-21T17:55:53 < Steffann> I'll get me an F2 and'll try to interface it with a tiny cmos camera
2011-09-21T17:58:11 < Steffann> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8667 that one for example
2011-09-21T17:59:23 < Laurenceb_> holy FPU batman
2011-09-21T17:59:27 < BrainDamage> http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270752614779&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
2011-09-21T17:59:36 < BrainDamage> more reasonable cam
2011-09-21T17:59:49 < Steffann> Why BrainDamage ?
2011-09-21T18:00:10 < BrainDamage> costs twice, and has 7x the res?
2011-09-21T18:00:26 < BrainDamage> and in the price, shipping is already included
2011-09-21T18:00:54 < Steffann> 3.0mp ..
2011-09-21T18:00:54 < BrainDamage> I only wish it had a bit more sensitivity, but cell phone cams always mount crappy optics
2011-09-21T18:01:06 < Steffann> It can't even handle the amount of data..
2011-09-21T18:01:21 < BrainDamage> you don't have to grab the whole frame
2011-09-21T18:01:32 < BrainDamage> or full res
2011-09-21T18:02:01 < Steffann> I don't need hi-res anyway
2011-09-21T18:02:06 < BrainDamage> the cam has internal DSP, that you can control
2011-09-21T18:04:34 < Steffann> And no datasheet?
2011-09-21T18:05:01 < Steffann> Oh, probably found one
2011-09-21T18:05:07 < BrainDamage> the link is in the auction page
2011-09-21T18:05:30 < BrainDamage> ctrl f for datasheet :p
2011-09-21T18:06:08 < Steffann> Ah, yeah
2011-09-21T18:06:21 < Steffann> I found the same link with google
2011-09-21T18:06:35 < Steffann> You used that camera?
2011-09-21T18:07:08 < Steffann> Sparkfun also has another fancy one. it can output jpeg
2011-09-21T18:07:20 < Steffann> And seems to be pin compatible with the other one
2011-09-21T18:07:23 < BrainDamage> it's currently somewhere between china & my home
2011-09-21T18:07:54 < Steffann> What's the plan with it?
2011-09-21T18:08:54 < BrainDamage> eventually strap it to a balloon and take some nice aerial pics
2011-09-21T18:09:08 < BrainDamage> hopefully in the stratosphere >_>
2011-09-21T18:09:36 < Steffann> And what are you going to use to process the images?
2011-09-21T18:10:23 < BrainDamage> stm32F203
2011-09-21T18:10:30 < BrainDamage> not full res
2011-09-21T18:10:45 < Steffann> That one has a dedicated DCMI?
2011-09-21T18:11:05 < Steffann> (Digital camera interface)
2011-09-21T18:11:43 < BrainDamage> no, I'll probably just (ab)use the dsp in the camera itself
2011-09-21T18:11:58 < BrainDamage> I just had those around since I got them for cheap
2011-09-21T18:12:03 < Steffann> I'll go with the 207 probably
2011-09-21T19:20:39 < dekar__> Laurenceb_, I don't think codesourcery has to support m4 - you could just run thumb2 code compiled for m3
2011-09-21T19:20:43 < dekar__> http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp
2011-09-21T19:21:49 < Steffann> Isn't that ugly dekar__ ?
2011-09-21T19:22:09 < dekar__> totally
2011-09-21T19:22:14 < Steffann> You can't use the benefits of m4 (if there are any)
2011-09-21T19:22:29 < dekar__> in case you mean the discovery - looks as ugly as the old discovery boards
2011-09-21T19:22:42 < dekar__> yeah you probably lack the FPU stuff
2011-09-21T19:22:43 < Steffann> w00t @ discovery
2011-09-21T19:22:51 < Steffann> No i didn't mean that discovery
2011-09-21T19:22:52 < dekar__> it's just $19
2011-09-21T19:22:57 < Steffann> I love those discovery boards
2011-09-21T19:23:13 < Steffann> This one sucks though..
2011-09-21T19:23:20 < Laurenceb_> i think the fpu is supported
2011-09-21T19:23:23 < Steffann> Double headers :(
2011-09-21T19:23:24 < Laurenceb_> if its NEON
2011-09-21T19:25:44 < dekar__> Laurenceb_, I am pretty sure it isn't NEON O.o
2011-09-21T19:25:57 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2011-09-21T19:26:04 < Laurenceb_> wtf happened to codesourcery
2011-09-21T19:26:04 < dekar__> neon is more than FPU iirc
2011-09-21T19:26:14 < dekar__> I have seen NEON intrinsics
2011-09-21T19:26:15 < Steffann> Why o why stm32?
2011-09-21T19:26:16 < Laurenceb_> yes but maybe its neon compatible?
2011-09-21T19:26:20 < dekar__> looked like SIMD
2011-09-21T19:26:21 < Steffann> Why that double headers?!
2011-09-21T19:26:29 < Steffann> Now they are not bread boardable anymore
2011-09-21T19:26:34 < dekar__> SIMD != FPU
2011-09-21T19:27:09 < dekar__> Steffann, do it dead bug style :D
2011-09-21T19:27:25 < dekar__> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f4discovery/board-eval-stm32f4-discovery/dp/2009276
2011-09-21T19:27:55 < dekar__> 9£
2011-09-21T19:27:57 < dekar__> so cheap
2011-09-21T19:27:58 < Steffann> dekar__
2011-09-21T19:27:59 < Steffann> 998 delivered in 47 days
2011-09-21T19:27:59 < Steffann> ...
2011-09-21T19:28:03 < jpa-> crazy price :o
2011-09-21T19:28:05 < Steffann> Special farnell feature
2011-09-21T19:29:00 < dekar__> I guess I'll get some
2011-09-21T19:29:04 < Steffann> 14,35 Euros = 19,646585 U.S. dollars excl. VAT
2011-09-21T19:29:31 < Laurenceb_> Sourcery G++ now includes support for ARM Cortex-M4
2011-09-21T19:29:31 < Laurenceb_> cores. Use the -mcpu=cortex-m4 command-line option.
2011-09-21T19:29:51 < dekar__> Laurenceb_, I think they changed the pipeline length
2011-09-21T19:30:01 < dekar__> so that will probably be the biggest change
2011-09-21T19:30:26 < Laurenceb_> Sourcery G++ now includes support for VFPv4, VFPv4-D16 and NEON-VFPv4
2011-09-21T19:30:26 < Laurenceb_> coprocessors. Use the -mfpu=vfpv4, -mfpu=vfpv4-d16 or -mfpu=neon-vfpv4 options,
2011-09-21T19:30:26 < Laurenceb_> respectively.
2011-09-21T19:30:36 < Steffann> Fancy Laurenceb_ :)
2011-09-21T19:31:08 < dekar__> I still don't think it supports NEON
2011-09-21T19:31:14 < dekar__> unless you show me proof
2011-09-21T19:31:23 < Laurenceb_> NEON improvements. The compiler now generates improved NEON vector code when copying
2011-09-21T19:31:23 < Laurenceb_> memory or storing constants to memory using the NEON coprocessor.
2011-09-21T19:32:19 < dekar__> my panda board has NEON :)
2011-09-21T19:32:32 < Steffann> Your panda board
2011-09-21T19:32:37 < Steffann> Don't talk about your panda board
2011-09-21T19:32:42 < dekar__> :D
2011-09-21T19:33:14 < Steffann> So get me a stm32f4 discovery :P
2011-09-21T19:33:36 < Steffann> I have to order at least > 50 euro stuff when i order from farnell
2011-09-21T19:34:01 < Steffann> Or i'll make my own board
2011-09-21T19:34:03 < Steffann> This one sucks
2011-09-21T19:35:12 < Steffann> The extra peripherals are nice though
2011-09-21T19:35:29 < BrainDamage> how the hell did you manage to get  pandaboard
2011-09-21T19:35:38 < BrainDamage> they are like out of stock from here to the next 2 years
2011-09-21T19:36:11 < dekar__> oh did I mention those panda board guys at our company just killed a 300€ touchscreen while presenting it at some fair?
2011-09-21T19:36:36 < Steffann> Ha dekar__
2011-09-21T19:37:00 < dekar__> they mixed up GND and 12V
2011-09-21T19:37:05 < Steffann> Hoeps
2011-09-21T19:37:38 < dekar__> our company surely wastes some money XD
2011-09-21T19:37:58 < Steffann> 300 is nothing for a company :)
2011-09-21T19:38:04 < Steffann> For most companies
2011-09-21T19:38:11 < dekar__> still it made me cry on the inside
2011-09-21T19:38:26 < Steffann> What did it kill?
2011-09-21T19:38:42 < dekar__> they connected the battery the other way around
2011-09-21T19:39:03 < Steffann> Yeah, but what's broken?
2011-09-21T19:39:10 < dekar__> dunno, not my project
2011-09-21T19:39:17 < dekar__> I just salvage parts they don't need
2011-09-21T19:39:19 < dekar__> XD
2011-09-21T19:39:29 < dekar__> probably the controller
2011-09-21T19:39:34 < dekar__> and backlight
2011-09-21T19:39:48 < dekar__> the backlight was broken for sure
2011-09-21T19:40:01 < Steffann> The FSMC has no SDRAM support?!
2011-09-21T19:40:05 < dekar__> nope
2011-09-21T19:40:14 < dekar__> get SRAM, it's faster anyway
2011-09-21T19:40:15 < dekar__> :D
2011-09-21T19:40:19 < Steffann> Even the small/tiny xmega has it
2011-09-21T19:40:29 < Steffann> And an xmega only runs at 32mhz
2011-09-21T19:40:40 < Steffann> SRAM = price++
2011-09-21T19:41:45 < dekar__> SRAM => epic++
2011-09-21T19:41:53 < Steffann> Not really
2011-09-21T19:41:56 < dekar__> I have some 2mb sram somewhere...
2011-09-21T19:42:16 < Steffann> I have 64Mbyte SDRAM on a little board :P
2011-09-21T19:42:41 < Steffann> Oops, 64Mbit :P
2011-09-21T19:44:08 < dekar__> nice
2011-09-21T19:44:39 < dekar__> I just ordered my altera fpga btw
2011-09-21T19:44:51 < dekar__> they somehow refused the company credit card -.-
2011-09-21T19:44:55 < dekar__> gotta recheck that
2011-09-21T19:45:12 < Steffann> I ordered it ages ago
2011-09-21T19:45:12 < Steffann> http://alvidi.de/avr_xmodul_V2_0.html
2011-09-21T19:45:33 < jpa-> what are the altera software licenses nowadays like?
2011-09-21T19:45:45 < jpa-> can you use the free edition to make commercial stuff?
2011-09-21T19:45:48 < dekar__> AVR :/
2011-09-21T19:45:54 < Steffann> AVR :)
2011-09-21T19:46:06 < dekar__> jpa-, yes, but only for the cyclone series
2011-09-21T19:46:26 < dekar__> cyclone GX is quite OK though
2011-09-21T19:46:47 < dekar__> the one I ordered has 8x 3,125gbit/s transceivers :)
2011-09-21T19:47:10 < jpa-> what are you going to tranceive with? :P
2011-09-21T19:47:27 < dekar__> SFP+/XFP/XENPAK/X2
2011-09-21T19:47:35 < dekar__> optical transceivers
2011-09-21T19:47:42 < dekar__> epic 10G laser networking :D
2011-09-21T19:47:52 < Steffann> How's that project going dekar__ ?
2011-09-21T19:50:08 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-590cf873.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-09-21T19:50:34 < dekar_> Steffann, I haven't started that project yet
2011-09-21T19:50:46 < Steffann> Never ending project?
2011-09-21T19:51:36 < dekar_> what do you mean? it's meant to be a cooperative project between the company I work for and my university - and it's mean to start in october
2011-09-21T19:51:43 < dekar_> did I say anything different?
2011-09-21T19:52:03 < dekar_> I was just searching for the hardware so far
2011-09-21T19:52:06 < Steffann> Yes, yes i remember that
2011-09-21T19:52:18 < dekar_> it's supposed to end in february I thin
2011-09-21T19:52:20 < dekar_> *think
2011-09-21T19:52:42 < Steffann> Hmm, there's no F2 discovery?!
2011-09-21T19:52:46 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@drms-590cf873.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2011-09-21T19:52:52 < dekar_> F4 all the way!
2011-09-21T19:52:58 < Steffann> No..
2011-09-21T19:53:10 < Steffann> Overkill..
2011-09-21T19:53:21 < Steffann> And the discovery board sucks
2011-09-21T19:53:40 < Steffann> I wonder when they announce the F#
2011-09-21T19:53:42 < Steffann> F3
2011-09-21T19:54:00 < dekar_> never, F3 is so yesterday! :D
2011-09-21T19:54:23 < Steffann> Why go from F2 to F4?!
2011-09-21T19:55:00 < Steffann> The nice thing of the F4 is the DSP, but i have no idea how it works :)
2011-09-21T19:55:12 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, I just checked NEON - it's just SIMD basically
2011-09-21T19:55:22 < dekar_> it also supports float, but mainly normal integers
2011-09-21T19:55:30 < dekar_> up to 128bit
2011-09-21T19:55:59 < Steffann> It states is has dsp instructions
2011-09-21T19:56:08 < dekar_> I somehow really don't feel like using intrinsics
2011-09-21T19:56:20 < Steffann> You have to write assembly for that?
2011-09-21T19:56:31 < dekar_> Steffann, intrinsics, not assembly
2011-09-21T19:57:09 < Steffann> It was a continuation of my  "it states it has dsp instructions" sentence :)
2011-09-21T19:57:41 < dekar_> they have new data types and some functions that are basically inline assembly - so you do like multiply(arrayOfEight_uint8_t, anotherArray);
2011-09-21T19:57:49 < Steffann> How hard is it to write things with 'intrinsics'?
2011-09-21T19:57:50 < dekar_> oh
2011-09-21T19:57:59 < dekar_> not hard, just not portable
2011-09-21T19:58:07 < Steffann> I don't care :)
2011-09-21T19:58:22 < Steffann> I just want to do some little image processing
2011-09-21T19:58:37 < Steffann> Object/color detection
2011-09-21T19:59:11  * jpa- loves intrinsics
2011-09-21T19:59:28 < Steffann> and beer?
2011-09-21T19:59:32 < jpa-> not beer
2011-09-21T19:59:33 < Steffann> vodka for you
2011-09-21T19:59:37 < Steffann> You are finish
2011-09-21T19:59:42 < Steffann> nnish
2011-09-21T20:00:21 < dekar_> Steffann, but why would you want to use SIMD if the stm32 doesn't even support SIMD? XD
2011-09-21T20:01:04 < Steffann> I do?
2011-09-21T20:01:35 < jpa-> http://kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/other/sse2_update_sum.c
2011-09-21T20:01:37 < dekar_> didn't you just ask me about intrinsics for image processing?
2011-09-21T20:01:43 < jpa-> lovely :)
2011-09-21T20:01:43 < Steffann> Yes i did
2011-09-21T20:01:55 < Steffann> I'm really not into that kind of stm32 stuff :P
2011-09-21T20:03:11 < dekar_> jpa-, I don't really get the idea of SIMD, why not just make it superscalar?
2011-09-21T20:03:42 < dekar_> I mean modern CPUs have like 3 ALUs per core shared between 2 threads/SMT
2011-09-21T20:03:55 < dekar_> imo that's just more flexible than SIMD
2011-09-21T20:03:57 < Steffann> So there's not benefit of using those dsp instructions?
2011-09-21T20:04:06 < Steffann> *no
2011-09-21T20:04:22 < jpa-> dekar_: it is more flexible, but also slower; you need a separate control path for each of the 3 ALUs
2011-09-21T20:04:34 < jpa-> whereas with SIMD you can use 1 control path and 16 simple ALUs
2011-09-21T20:04:44 < dekar_> Steffann, those DSP instructions are like int i = 200 + 70; where becomes 255
2011-09-21T20:05:05 < Steffann> Huh?
2011-09-21T20:05:06 < Steffann> !
2011-09-21T20:05:07 < dekar_> they are mainly for audio and stuff like that
2011-09-21T20:05:13 < Steffann> Hmm
2011-09-21T20:05:17 < dekar_> it prevents overflow
2011-09-21T20:05:25 < Steffann> aka useless
2011-09-21T20:05:26 < Steffann> :P
2011-09-21T20:05:34 < jpa-> multiply and accumulate is very common dsp instruction, too
2011-09-21T20:05:34 < dekar_> jpa-, just use a GPU for that?
2011-09-21T20:05:37 < dekar_> or an fpga
2011-09-21T20:05:57 < jpa-> dekar_: GPU would be nice, but not every computer has a CUDA compatible gpu
2011-09-21T20:06:12 < dekar_> jpa-, not every computer has SIMD
2011-09-21T20:06:27 < jpa-> yes they do, if they are fast enough to run it anyway
2011-09-21T20:07:04 < jpa-> e.g. the video processing software where that .c is from requires atleast core 2 or equivalent, so SSE2 is guaranteed to be present :)
2011-09-21T20:07:41 < dekar_> so hf porting that to the highly vectorizing powerPC architecture
2011-09-21T20:07:52 < dekar_> I just dislike code that isn't portable
2011-09-21T20:07:54 < dekar_> -.-
2011-09-21T20:08:18 < dekar_> doesn't the GCC offer some option to automatically vectorize your code?
2011-09-21T20:08:30 < dekar_> the ICC should be able to do that at least
2011-09-21T20:08:56 < dekar_> http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/tree-ssa/vectorization.html
2011-09-21T20:09:39 < dekar_> so just have a loop and the GCC will do the rest, no need for non-portable intrinsics
2011-09-21T20:10:54 < jpa-> dekar_: yeah, i like portability as well, but it is really not always feasible
2011-09-21T20:11:10 < jpa-> and the automatic vectorization works only in dead-simple cases
2011-09-21T20:11:13 < dekar_> jpa-, I just think 99% of your applications won't use SIMD, though they will have an advantage when supported by more ALUs
2011-09-21T20:11:23 < jpa-> sure
2011-09-21T20:11:49 < dekar_> just seems like a waste to me
2011-09-21T20:11:54 < jpa-> i'm thinking about this more from the application developer viewpoint: i can achieve more performance with SIMD than with more ALUs
2011-09-21T20:12:17 < dekar_> jpa-, yeah, it makes sense to use it now that we have it
2011-09-21T20:12:17 < jpa-> besides, all major video codecs on the x86 platform use SIMD
2011-09-21T20:13:40 < dekar_> I might be biased, but if I would design a cpu it would be super scalar without simd and without out of order
2011-09-21T20:14:03 < Steffann> Do go to work for intel/amd then :P
2011-09-21T20:14:15 < dekar_> and x86er is ugly as hell, just have a look at the old x87er opcodes for example
2011-09-21T20:14:37 < dekar_> they are uber slow cause they're emulated in microcode anyway
2011-09-21T20:15:00 < dekar_> adding all those special purpose extensions just adds millions of bugs to the CPUs
2011-09-21T20:15:13 < Steffann> Millions :)
2011-09-21T20:15:23 < dekar_> I mean Intel releases microcode updates all the time
2011-09-21T20:15:39 < dekar_> Steffann, several thousands at least! -.-
2011-09-21T20:15:40 < jpa-> the windows platform is holding x86 back
2011-09-21T20:16:30 < Steffann> The question is.. how many bugs has the silicon itself?
2011-09-21T20:17:49 < dekar_> Steffann, many - they're insanely complex
2011-09-21T20:18:02 < dekar_> they basically compile every opcode they execute
2011-09-21T20:18:14 < dekar_> the out of order unit is like 1/3 of the chip
2011-09-21T20:18:33 < dekar_> just reordering opcodes and then translating them into some RISC-like code
2011-09-21T20:18:55 < jpa-> i thought cache itself is already 3/4 of the chip
2011-09-21T20:19:31 < jpa-> oh well, my knowledge is a bit outdated
2011-09-21T20:19:31 < dekar_> well maybe it's 1/3 of the actual core area ignoring the cache - idk
2011-09-21T20:19:46 < dekar_> they told us "around 1/3" at university
2011-09-21T20:19:50 < jpa-> difficult to define "part of the chip" when it is multicore
2011-09-21T20:20:04 < dekar_> and once it has SMT things get worse ;)
2011-09-21T20:20:21 < dekar_> jpa-, still intel decided to have the atom - it's small and cheap
2011-09-21T20:20:25 < dekar_> and lack out of order
2011-09-21T20:20:28 < dekar_> *lacks
2011-09-21T20:20:40 < dekar_> to compensate that they used SMT
2011-09-21T20:21:04 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2011-09-21T20:21:29 < dekar_> well so did they for the p4 having like 30 pipeline stages :D
2011-09-21T20:21:54 < Steffanx> Professors are always wrong dekar_
2011-09-21T20:22:00 < dekar_> I guess
2011-09-21T20:22:03 < Steffanx> At least 1 of of 2 times :P
2011-09-21T20:22:09 < Steffanx> or 2 of out 3
2011-09-21T20:22:10 < dekar_> but there has to be a reason the Atom is cheap and small
2011-09-21T20:22:14 < dekar_> and slow
2011-09-21T20:22:15 < Steffanx> True
2011-09-21T20:22:18 < Steffanx> ARM FTW
2011-09-21T20:22:30 < dekar_> panda!
2011-09-21T20:22:57 < Steffanx> Yes, ARM :P
2011-09-21T20:23:33 < dekar_> they should change x86er to actually interpret C code - do the whole compilation inside the chip :D
2011-09-21T20:23:49 < dekar_> that would be consequent at least
2011-09-21T20:23:50 < dekar_> :P
2011-09-21T20:24:50 < Steffanx> Yeah
2011-09-21T20:25:32 < Steffanx> Write a C interpreter in VHDL/Verilog dekar_
2011-09-21T20:26:17 < Steffanx> Or that new 'system verilog'
2011-09-21T20:26:20 < Steffanx> *'new'
2011-09-21T20:26:54 < dekar_> Steffanx, what I hate most about FPU/SIMD etc is the way you have to handle platforms lacking those
2011-09-21T20:27:00 < dekar_> you know how linux does it?
2011-09-21T20:27:34 < dekar_> it has some illegal opcode handler that does the calculation the opcode would do if the hardware was there and then returns to the application
2011-09-21T20:27:42 < dekar_> that's an epic waste of cycles
2011-09-21T20:28:04 < jpa-> only if the software is distributed as binaries
2011-09-21T20:28:21 < dekar_> yeah hf using gentoo on your stm32 :D
2011-09-21T20:28:46 < jpa-> dekar_: have fun finding precompiled binaries for your stm32
2011-09-21T20:28:47 < BrainDamage> what do you guys use on stm32? freertos?
2011-09-21T20:28:52 < jpa-> BrainDamage: chibios :)
2011-09-21T20:28:57 < dekar_> I agree, compiling helps, but it's basically an architecture split
2011-09-21T20:29:10 < dekar_> BrainDamage, DekarOS
2011-09-21T20:29:32 < jpa-> where can i get dekaros? :)
2011-09-21T20:29:58 < dekar_> you have to sign like 20 NDA just to get the filesystem driver - I can show you the documentation though
2011-09-21T20:30:30 < dekar_> jpa-, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/Readme.txt
2011-09-21T20:30:48 < Steffanx> dekar_ i don't really care about that
2011-09-21T20:30:59 < Steffanx> I write this for a special architecture anyway
2011-09-21T20:31:11 < Steffanx> I mean.. it NEEDS a camera interface
2011-09-21T20:31:36 < dekar_> Steffanx, so write it in thumb2 already - and AVR assembly for those atmel µC -.-"
2011-09-21T20:32:00 < Steffanx> No, those AVR's have no camera interface
2011-09-21T20:32:04 < Steffanx> And are too slow
2011-09-21T20:32:07 < dekar_> XD
2011-09-21T20:32:12 < jpa-> writing it in assembly provides very little speed benefit over C :)
2011-09-21T20:32:13 < Steffanx> And thumb2.. come on
2011-09-21T20:32:17 < Steffanx> I don't write assembly
2011-09-21T20:32:27 < dekar_> jpa-, but it makes it unportable - which was my point
2011-09-21T20:32:54 < Steffanx> Why mess with thumb2 when you can write it unportable in C ? :)
2011-09-21T20:33:01 < dekar_> I guess :P
2011-09-21T20:33:06 < jpa-> exactly :)
2011-09-21T20:33:42 < Steffanx> When i start to mess with architecture specific things i make it unportable
2011-09-21T20:34:03 < Steffanx> And the question is.. do i really need Floating point stuff for 'simple' image processing
2011-09-21T20:34:16 < dekar_> nope
2011-09-21T20:34:28 < Steffanx> Image processing as in object and/or color detection
2011-09-21T20:34:45 < dekar_> memset(data, 0x00, sizeof(data)); for all your image processing needs :D
2011-09-21T20:34:50 < Steffanx> Maybe a some simple edge detection
2011-09-21T20:34:55 < Steffanx> *-a
2011-09-21T20:35:31 < dekar_> well, idk what you plan on doing - using a camera sounds pretty interesting already :)
2011-09-21T20:35:37 < Steffanx> I have no plan
2011-09-21T20:35:46 < Steffanx> I just want to do object/color detection
2011-09-21T20:35:57 < Steffanx> For my quadrocopter or other robot i'll build
2011-09-21T20:36:33 < dekar_> attach a kinect :D
2011-09-21T20:36:36 < Steffanx> With a relative small microcontroller, like the f4 family
2011-09-21T20:36:41 < Steffanx> *f2
2011-09-21T20:37:02 < Steffanx> ( Why i write f4 when I have f2 in my head? )
2011-09-21T20:37:20 < Steffanx> And buy a panda board from you dekar_ ?
2011-09-21T20:37:30 < dekar_> nothing to worry about, just a bug in the trojan I planted inside your head :D
2011-09-21T20:37:30 < Steffanx> The panda board has the power
2011-09-21T20:37:56 < dekar_> your brain lacks memory protection btw
2011-09-21T20:38:42 < Steffanx> Yes, but it does have plausibility capabilities. There is NO microcontroller with that feature
2011-09-21T20:39:27 < Steffanx> Not yet
2011-09-21T20:42:06 < dekar_> http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController?action=products&catalogId=500201&storeId=500201&N=0&langId=-1&slnk=e&term=STM32F4DISCOVERY&mfr=STM&hrf=http%3A%2F%2Foctopart.com%2Fstm32f4discovery-stmicroelectronics-20382043&CMP=KNC-Octopart_VSE
2011-09-21T20:42:13 < dekar_> 6 weeks :D
2011-09-21T20:42:38 < Steffanx> You really want to buy one?
2011-09-21T20:42:53 < Steffanx> or more
2011-09-21T20:44:00 < Steffanx> They are too overkill for the kind of things i want to make
2011-09-21T20:44:16 < Steffanx> Except this little camera related project
2011-09-21T20:46:36 < Steffanx> I never did image processing without using opencv, so maybe i have to try it on my pc first :)
2011-09-21T20:55:54 < dekar_> Steffanx, I want to buy one just to evaluate whether my code can be easily ported
2011-09-21T20:56:36 < dekar_> we might have to switch to those once the stm32f1 is out of production in a few years ;)
2011-09-21T21:04:15 < Steffanx> Sure..
2011-09-21T21:12:02 < jpa-> is there any nice way in gdb to get a backtrace from stuff that happened *before* hardfault was called
2011-09-21T21:14:01 < Steffanx> hardfault.. please don't talk about them
2011-09-21T21:14:38 < Steffanx> This sonic anemometer i built sometimes enters hardfault … i still don't know why
2011-09-21T21:14:45 < Steffanx> *them = it
2011-09-21T21:23:09 < dekar_> jpa-, I read about some GDB mod that did allow you to step backwards a while ago
2011-09-21T21:23:24 < dekar_> but you can't normally do that -.-
2011-09-21T21:26:13 < dekar_> jpa-, the hardfault handler is probably saving the register states - like the program counter before it got called
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2011-09-21T21:27:34 < dekar_> Steffanx, probably memory corruption - it's too easy to do that in C :/
2011-09-21T21:27:53 < Steffanx> Yeah, but...
2011-09-21T21:28:02 < Steffanx> It only seems to happen on startup
2011-09-21T21:28:22 < Steffanx> I have to give it a 'hard' reboot
2011-09-21T21:28:39 < dekar_> I had my project enter hard fault after receiving the second usb packet - only when enabling compiler optimizations
2011-09-21T21:29:14 < dekar_> at some point I rewrote my firmware completely and focused in making it safe - the problems never came back
2011-09-21T21:29:36 < dekar_> so it probably was something that I did
2011-09-21T21:33:39 < jpa-> dekar_: well, the hard fault saves the registers on the process stack, and it is annoyingly difficult to get even the process stack pointer because it is kept in a shadow register
2011-09-21T21:34:46 < dekar_> jpa-, you can probably access them using their address (I think they're memory mapped)
2011-09-21T21:36:35 < jpa-> oh?
2011-09-21T21:37:48 < jpa-> i haven't found any other way to access it than         asm("mrs %0, psp" : "=r"(psp) : :);
2011-09-21T21:38:43 < dekar_> jpa-, I think izua told me they were when he flamed me for using inline assembly for my bootloader
2011-09-21T21:39:06 < dekar_> I never looked into it though
2011-09-21T21:40:32 < dekar_> well the st lib has C wrapper functions for it at least
2011-09-21T21:40:35 < dekar_> uint32_t __get_PSP(void)
2011-09-21T21:41:00 < Steffanx> Where that guy btw dekar_ ?
2011-09-21T21:41:02 < Steffanx> Izua
2011-09-21T21:41:07 < Steffanx> Still on holiday?
2011-09-21T21:41:11 < dekar_> idk
2011-09-21T21:41:17 < Steffanx> You have to know
2011-09-21T21:41:31 < dekar_> I could call him :)
2011-09-21T21:41:40 < Steffanx> me too
2011-09-21T21:41:47 < Steffanx> If you give me his phone number
2011-09-21T21:41:55 < dekar_> haha, let's do that at like 3am XD
2011-09-21T21:42:05 < Steffanx> :)
2011-09-21T21:42:15 < Steffanx> Uhm, then i'm asleep
2011-09-21T21:42:23 < dekar_> yeah me too -.-"
2011-09-21T21:42:29 < dekar_> gotta write an app to do it :D
2011-09-21T21:43:19 < Steffanx> I abused an SMS service here in NL for that to send few hunderd messages to people :P
2011-09-21T21:43:34 < dekar_> so mean!
2011-09-21T21:43:47 < Steffanx> The online sms service of one of large provider was buggy :P
2011-09-21T21:43:52 < dekar_> I just realized those C functions for register access are CMSIS - nice :D
2011-09-21T21:44:02 < Steffanx> *providers
2011-09-21T21:44:19 < Steffanx> They had a service you could use to send 15 messages/week
2011-09-21T21:44:28 < dekar_> they use stdint.h
2011-09-21T21:44:36 < dekar_> I totally love those ARM guys :D
2011-09-21T21:44:50 < dekar_> so you signed up like 20 times?
2011-09-21T21:44:59 < Steffanx> I wrote a little script to send me school updates..
2011-09-21T21:45:19 < Steffanx> Suddenly i mentioned i received more than 15 messages/week
2011-09-21T21:45:47 < Steffanx> The script I wrote skipped an for the system important page
2011-09-21T21:45:55 < Steffanx> That system was soo buggy
2011-09-21T21:46:31 < dekar_> lol
2011-09-21T21:46:35 < Steffanx> So you could just post the data to a certain page, and skip the page that mentioned you sent more than 15 messages
2011-09-21T21:47:19 < Steffanx> I 'investigated' it a little bit more, and found out you could even send messages without using a real username and password
2011-09-21T21:47:23 < dekar_> reminds me of those 3g hacks to get free mobile internet
2011-09-21T21:47:27 < dekar_> using dns-tunnel
2011-09-21T21:47:52 < Steffanx> Good old times
2011-09-21T21:48:18 < Steffanx> Now the provider has a new website. The old system is still there but doesn't work anymore
2011-09-21T21:48:30 < dekar_> anyway, gotta watch leverage - the series sucks btw
2011-09-21T21:48:47 < Steffanx> Why you watch sucky series?
2011-09-21T21:48:48 < dekar_> "suits" is nice though, I recommend watching it
2011-09-21T21:48:54 < dekar_> boredom
2011-09-21T21:49:14 < Steffanx> I prefer good series like Game of Thrones
2011-09-21T21:49:39 < dekar_> still haven't watched it - I didn't like when I heard about the setting
2011-09-21T21:49:46 < Steffanx> It sucks it takes ages to make the episodes
2011-09-21T21:49:51 < dekar_> fantasy stuff - dragons - dunno :/
2011-09-21T21:49:53 < Steffanx> It'll start again in april 2012 iirc
2011-09-21T21:50:09 < Steffanx> Nah, the first one isn't really into fantasy/dragons
2011-09-21T21:50:23 < Steffanx> [spoiler alert]
2011-09-21T21:50:33 < Steffanx> The first real/alive dragon you'll see is in the last episode
2011-09-21T21:50:39 < dekar_> hm
2011-09-21T21:50:43 < Steffanx> last episode of the serie
2011-09-21T21:50:51 < dekar_> still fantasy setting
2011-09-21T21:51:01 < dekar_> idk, I'll eventually watch it I guess
2011-09-21T21:51:19 < Steffanx> Nah, the only fantasy imho is a big scary wall :)
2011-09-21T21:51:34 < Steffanx> And the first episode is a little fantasy-ish
2011-09-21T21:52:00 < Steffanx> Don't watch is when you don't like chopped off heads :P
2011-09-21T21:52:12 < dekar_> I prefer hands usually
2011-09-21T21:53:01 < Steffanx> The first season is really more medieval-ish than fantasy-ish :)
2011-09-21T21:53:34 < Steffanx> Even the 'making of' is great :)
2011-09-21T21:53:46 < Steffanx> It's fantastic to see how they make series like that
2011-09-21T21:54:01 < dekar_> you know when I am hungry for hands... this hunger only hands can satisfy...
2011-09-21T21:54:08 < Steffanx> Especially the computer 'animations'
2011-09-21T21:54:47 < Steffanx> First you see an old building, in the next shot you see how it looked like in the episode
2011-09-21T21:54:51 < dekar_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUPCB9533Y :D
2011-09-21T21:55:00 < Steffanx> Sometimes you can't even see it's fake
2011-09-21T21:55:09 < dekar_> hm
2011-09-21T21:55:22 < Steffanx> At least, i didn't see it :)
2011-09-21T21:55:42 < dekar_> I'll watch it before I start watching true blood season 4 (which has to be horrible since the whole series sucks!)
2011-09-21T21:55:44  * jpa- succeeded :)
2011-09-21T21:55:51 < dekar_> nice
2011-09-21T21:56:04 < dekar_> alphas sucks as well
2011-09-21T21:56:08 < dekar_> and human target
2011-09-21T21:56:28 < Steffanx> Game of thrones has to be good.. just because they take the time to make the serie :)
2011-09-21T21:56:29 < jpa-> i added the asm() stuff in my hardfault handler and stored the psp to a global variable; then in gdb, i can do set $sp=psp and then bt to see the backtrace
2011-09-21T21:56:29 < dekar_> I think most of the stuff I was watching lately sucked
2011-09-21T21:56:45 < Steffanx> Yay jpa-
2011-09-21T21:56:50 < Steffanx> Write a blog post about it :)
2011-09-21T21:56:58 < dekar_> it's pretty trivial imo
2011-09-21T21:57:03 < Steffanx> I only watch House and Fringe a little
2011-09-21T21:57:05 < dekar_> but yeah, blog it XD
2011-09-21T21:57:21 < dekar_> the last fringe season I watched sucked
2011-09-21T21:57:29 < dekar_> all that parallel world stuff
2011-09-21T21:57:32 < Steffanx> It was weird.. true
2011-09-21T21:57:33 < dekar_> didn't like it
2011-09-21T21:57:39 < dekar_> weird machine to destroy worlds
2011-09-21T21:57:41 < dekar_> -.-
2011-09-21T21:57:45 < Steffanx> I like sf-ish things :)
2011-09-21T21:57:52 < dekar_> I used to like them
2011-09-21T21:58:06 < Steffanx> I like real fake series :)
2011-09-21T21:58:13 < dekar_> "up in the air" is probably the best movie I have watched in a while
2011-09-21T21:58:23 < Steffanx> I don't like CSI for example, because that's really fake :)
2011-09-21T21:58:24 < dekar_> really liked it
2011-09-21T21:58:39 < Steffanx> With their super image processing shit
2011-09-21T21:58:45 < dekar_> XD
2011-09-21T21:58:49 < Steffanx> There's a famous image on the web about it somewhere
2011-09-21T21:59:13 < dekar_> I don't mind exaggerated hacking in movies
2011-09-21T21:59:30 < Steffanx> NCIS is better imho
2011-09-21T22:00:05 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: https://imgur.com/gallery/y61lQ
2011-09-21T22:00:06 < jpa-> Steffanx: i should have a blog for that kind of stuff ,)
2011-09-21T22:00:26 < Steffanx> Yeah, that image BrainDamage
2011-09-21T22:00:42 < dekar_> it's the same for everything, like when someone doesn't let the protagonist search some company in suits and he is like "...or I could just come back with a subpoena!" and magically they surrender and let him search the company - they just do it to make the movie more fluent
2011-09-21T22:00:47 < dekar_> same for uber hacking skills
2011-09-21T22:01:22 < dekar_> viewers don't want to be stalled too much
2011-09-21T22:02:29 < BrainDamage> well, in a way, many animated series instead take it to the opposite extreme
2011-09-21T22:02:52 < dekar_> that's why I don't watch them :P
2011-09-21T22:02:54 < Steffanx> I think i'll regret what i'll say next
2011-09-21T22:03:04 < Steffanx> I also don't like The A-team because it's soooo fake
2011-09-21T22:03:32 < BrainDamage> so is macguyver, but it's still fun to watch
2011-09-21T22:03:39 < BrainDamage> plus the mullet it hilarious
2011-09-21T22:03:42 < BrainDamage> is*
2011-09-21T22:04:21 < dekar_> I don't like the a-team as well
2011-09-21T22:04:28 < Steffanx> ok ok :)
2011-09-21T22:04:51 < dekar_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7k6FwXJhNk
2011-09-21T22:05:43 < Steffanx> Hmm?
2011-09-21T22:06:01 < dekar_> epic movie - loving it
2011-09-21T22:06:09 < dekar_> thank you for smoking was epic as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBELC_vxqhI
2011-09-21T22:07:16 < Steffanx> You forgot to say 'imho' :P
2011-09-21T22:08:04 < dekar_> it's a fact
2011-09-21T22:08:25 < dekar_> not too realistic, yet incredibly entertaining
2011-09-21T22:08:56 < Steffanx> imho
2011-09-21T22:09:12 < BrainDamage> no, not humble
2011-09-21T22:09:48 < Steffanx> ok, skip the 'h'
2011-09-21T22:10:10 < dekar_> it's no subjective opinion, those movies are awesome! :D
2011-09-21T22:10:33 < Steffanx> Just like that fact that windows is the perfect os? :P
2011-09-21T22:10:39 < Steffanx> And linux too
2011-09-21T22:10:41 < Steffanx> And os x too
2011-09-21T22:10:42 < dekar_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip6GolC7Mk0
2011-09-21T22:11:07 < Steffanx> Trailers suck imo :P
2011-09-21T22:11:25 < dekar_> so watch them all
2011-09-21T22:11:36 < dekar_> as well as better off ted - best series ever
2011-09-21T22:11:37 < Steffanx> I watch movies without the trailer
2011-09-21T22:11:46 < Steffanx> *Without seeing
2011-09-21T22:13:05 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5486/howfanboysseeoperatings.jpg
2011-09-21T22:13:12 < BrainDamage> old, but soo true
2011-09-21T22:13:57 < Steffanx> That's the best image indeed
2011-09-21T22:14:17 < Steffanx> I don't like the similar, but bashing images
2011-09-21T22:16:24 < dekar_> I don't think there is a good operating system so far
2011-09-21T22:16:45 < dekar_> they all disappoint at some point -.-"
2011-09-21T22:17:05 < Steffanx> Agrees for 101%
2011-09-21T22:18:20 < dekar_> for example I really like the android permission api - I think desktop systems should have that as well
2011-09-21T22:18:39 < dekar_> run applications sandboxed unless they get permission to access data outside
2011-09-21T22:18:42 < Steffanx> I've never really touched an android device
2011-09-21T22:19:17 < dekar_> when you install an application it shows you like "this application is able to access the internet as well as the gps device, do you agree?"
2011-09-21T22:19:38 < dekar_> that would be a major security gain
2011-09-21T22:20:09 < dekar_> SE-Linux as well as apparmor have some of those elements, but it isn't integrated anyway useable
2011-09-21T22:22:05 < BrainDamage> most people don't read them
2011-09-21T22:22:20 < dekar_> w/e, they're still much better than traditional unix permissions
2011-09-21T22:22:33 < BrainDamage> and for some apps, you still say yes since the functionality isn't replaceable :&
2011-09-21T22:22:43 < dekar_> or you don't use them
2011-09-21T22:22:43 < BrainDamage> only recently you can disable or fake them
2011-09-21T22:22:51 < dekar_> still haven't installed whatsapp
2011-09-21T22:23:04 < dekar_> the decision is up to me
2011-09-21T22:23:14 < dekar_> at least I know what I am getting into
2011-09-21T22:23:21 < dekar_> ofc the system isn't perfect as well
2011-09-21T22:23:30 < dekar_> I still think we need that on the desktop
2011-09-21T22:23:37 < dekar_> just one example btw
2011-09-21T22:24:30 < Steffanx> They have to find something for that !@#$%^ dependency shit on linux/os x/windows as well :)
2011-09-21T22:25:12 < BrainDamage> on android it's worse than other platforms
2011-09-21T22:25:19 < BrainDamage> no real lib systems
2011-09-21T22:25:23 < BrainDamage> sure, you got intents
2011-09-21T22:25:33 < BrainDamage> but almost nobody uses shared libs
2011-09-21T22:30:17 < dekar_> microkernels are another big topic, the technology is old - still we have no proper microkernel OS
2011-09-21T22:30:29 < dekar_> I wouldn't care about 10% speed loss
2011-09-21T22:31:23 < dekar_> kernel drivers suck big time
2011-09-21T22:48:03 < dekar_> Steffanx, another example for movies exaggerating - they always manage to pick locks in seconds ;)
2011-09-21T22:48:32 < Steffanx> Yeah :)
2011-09-21T22:48:54 < dekar_> so doing impossible things with computers isn't that bad imo
2011-09-21T22:50:12 < Steffanx> 'imo' :)
2011-09-21T22:51:05 < dekar_> this time it was opinion, last time it was facts :P
2011-09-21T23:09:02 < dekar_> oh proper IO scheduling
2011-09-21T23:09:12 < dekar_> that sucks on all the systems I know
2011-09-21T23:09:23 < dekar_> heavy IO makes iTunes lag
2011-09-21T23:09:34 < dekar_> this is so not necessary
2011-09-21T23:09:59 < dekar_> gotta make my own OS one day :)
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2011-09-22T00:27:50 < Steffanx> Hmm, all elipse/circuit detect seem to use  trigonometric functions :(
2011-09-22T00:28:15 < Steffanx> *all elipse/circle detection algorithms :)
2011-09-22T01:19:28 < Steffanx> Whoa, that F4 discovery board is only one week old
2011-09-22T01:20:17 < Steffanx> That's why it isn't available :(
2011-09-22T01:41:37 < Steffanx> Why-o-why STM?
2011-09-22T01:46:01 < Laurenceb> couple of weeks aiui
2011-09-22T01:46:13 < Laurenceb> unless it turns into a xmega style fiasco
2011-09-22T01:46:35 < Laurenceb> ST seem to be more organised than Atmel
2011-09-22T01:49:34 < Steffanx> Just check the erata :)
2011-09-22T01:49:49 < Steffanx> *errata
2011-09-22T01:50:38 < Steffanx> Not sure if they released rev. A ..
2011-09-22T01:50:42 < Steffanx> "ES0182: STM32F405/407xx and STM32F415/417xx revision A device limitations"
2011-09-22T01:51:35 < Steffanx> It even supports ipv6 .. how fancy
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2011-09-22T17:32:52 < Laurenceb_> what doe sthe __IO modifier thingy do in c ?
2011-09-22T17:50:37 < ziph> Nothing, it will be a macro.
2011-09-22T17:53:19 < ziph> Where do you see it? I recall seeing it but I can't find it in the includes I'm using.
2011-09-22T17:54:23 < Steffanx> the example projects use it iirc
2011-09-22T17:55:52 < ziph> #define     __IO    volatile             /*!< defines 'read / write' permissions              */
2011-09-22T17:55:55 < ziph> There you go.
2011-09-22T17:56:07 < ziph> It's just "volatile".
2011-09-22T17:56:32 < ziph> As are __I and __O
2011-09-22T17:57:30 < Laurenceb_> oh volatile
2011-09-22T17:57:35 < Laurenceb_> cool
2011-09-22T17:58:27 < ziph> And you need an IDE/editor that will let you jump to definitions quickly. :)
2011-09-22T17:58:46 < Laurenceb_> heh
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--- Log opened Sat Sep 24 06:09:22 2011
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2011-09-24T13:11:29 < jpa-> gcc why you do this :( http://paste.dy.fi/bty/plain
2011-09-24T13:11:40 < jpa-> TIM6->CNT is volatile
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2011-09-24T13:16:20 < dekar__> jpa-, I've never used timers, do they need the 32khz clocksource or could they for example use the internal clock as well?
2011-09-24T13:17:04 < Steffanx> You never used timers?! :)
2011-09-24T13:17:28 < jpa-> dekar__: they can use internal
2011-09-24T13:17:29 < Steffanx> I mean, good morning
2011-09-24T13:17:43 < dekar__> hey, good morning
2011-09-24T13:17:59 < dekar__> Steffanx, I just used the systick so far
2011-09-24T13:18:34 < BrainDamage> depends, by timers do you mean the counters, or the rtc?
2011-09-24T13:19:07 < BrainDamage> the rtc needs a clock which is a power of 2, to be accurate in the long run
2011-09-24T13:20:06 < BrainDamage> other timers can run on any clock, but remember that you'll get your timer quanta won't be a integer fraction of 1 second
2011-09-24T13:20:42 < Steffanx> Most of the time you don't care about that last part
2011-09-24T13:21:04 < jpa-> BrainDamage: why power of 2? it can divide by any 20 bit integer 
2011-09-24T13:22:04 < BrainDamage> oh sorry, I was assuming it was simply using a divide-by-2 counter
2011-09-24T13:22:25 < BrainDamage> which is what 80% of rtc do >_>
2011-09-24T13:40:00 < jpa-> bah, i guess there is a bug in codesourcery
2011-09-24T13:40:32 < jpa-> too bad that they do not accept bug reports for the free version.. i can't bother compiling gcc myself
2011-09-24T13:41:19 < dekar__> jpa-, try the libopencm3 toolchain
2011-09-24T13:41:42 < dekar__> they have some easy script - takes ages (like 20min), but is easy to use :)
2011-09-24T13:43:43 < jpa-> got to love libraries like this: https://github.com/esden/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/adc.c
2011-09-24T13:44:58 < dekar__> 	/* FIXME: QUICK HACK to prevent compiler warnings. */ XD
2011-09-24T13:45:18 < dekar__> 	prescaler = prescaler;
2011-09-24T13:46:10 < dekar__> I think the proper way of doing it is either writing "void rcc_set_adc_clk(u32)" or doing (void)prescaler;
2011-09-24T13:46:49 < dekar__> I didn't say use their lib - I just meant use their toolchain
2011-09-24T13:47:42 < Steffanx> It also has options for the m4?
2011-09-24T13:47:46 < Steffanx> *cortex-m4
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2011-09-24T13:49:10 < Steffanx> I think i'll get ma a stm32F4 Discovery
2011-09-24T13:49:12 < Steffanx> *me
2011-09-24T13:49:42 < dekar__> me too
2011-09-24T13:49:53 < dekar__> or some china board
2011-09-24T13:50:01 < dekar__> I have seen one with sram :)
2011-09-24T13:51:12 < Steffanx> An F4?
2011-09-24T13:51:14 < Steffanx> Where?
2011-09-24T13:51:26 < dekar__> now that you're asking, I think it was F2
2011-09-24T13:51:40 < dekar__> ebay I think
2011-09-24T13:52:04 < dekar__> I really wonder how µCLinux implements malloc - I mean we have no MMU on the stm32
2011-09-24T13:52:22 < dekar__> isn't memory fragmentation a huge problem?
2011-09-24T13:52:50 < dekar__> I don't think there is a way to remap memory -.-
2011-09-24T13:59:01 < dekar__> well I guess malloc just fails once the fragmentation is too high
2011-09-24T13:59:56 < jpa-> dekar__: i didn't find their toolchain
2011-09-24T14:00:01 < Steffanx> ARgh .. why they used sourceforge for libopenstm32 ?!
2011-09-24T14:00:23 < jpa-> dekar__: malloc works fine without MMU; there are even algorithms to reduce fragmentation..
2011-09-24T14:00:42 < jpa-> dekar__: but mostly it is a matter of not using malloc everywhere, but using memory pools where appropiate
2011-09-24T14:00:57 < Steffanx> The repository browser from sourceforge sucks ass
2011-09-24T14:01:29 < dekar__> jpa-, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/summon-arm-toolchain
2011-09-24T14:01:36 < dekar__> that's the script they use
2011-09-24T14:01:44 < dekar__> got if off some git iirc
2011-09-24T14:02:00 < dekar__> it will download and compile everything
2011-09-24T14:02:04 < Steffanx> There it is.. i was looking for that
2011-09-24T14:02:24 < jpa-> dekar__: thanks
2011-09-24T14:02:28 < dekar__> np
2011-09-24T14:02:46 < Steffanx> I wonder if i can add floating point and m4 support (if it doesn't have it yet)
2011-09-24T14:02:52 < dekar__> jpa-, did you try -O0?
2011-09-24T14:03:02 < dekar__> I wonder if that changes the behavior
2011-09-24T14:03:13 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: codesourcery supports m4 and fpu
2011-09-24T14:03:31 < dekar__> yah, didn't we talk about that a few days ago?
2011-09-24T14:03:35 < Steffanx> Since when?
2011-09-24T14:04:35 < jpa-> dekar__: yes, with -O0 it produces correct stuff
2011-09-24T14:04:41 < Steffanx> Mentor Graphics Sourcery Tools :S
2011-09-24T14:04:51 < Steffanx> I mean "CodeSourcery is now Mentor Graphics Sourcery Tools" ?!
2011-09-24T14:05:08 < jpa-> it seems to do with -O2 and -O3, too, just -O1 is faulty
2011-09-24T14:05:15 < jpa-> but -O2 is already a pain to debug
2011-09-24T14:05:34 < dekar__> jpa-, wow that sucks!
2011-09-24T14:09:36 < Steffanx> Where do you see it supports m4 and fp Laurenceb?
2011-09-24T14:10:32 < Laurenceb> in the documentation
2011-09-24T14:22:01 < dekar__> what's wrong with the codesourcery page?
2011-09-24T14:22:07 < dekar__> did someone buy them?
2011-09-24T14:22:13 < Laurenceb> i was asking the same question
2011-09-24T14:22:15 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-09-24T14:26:53 < Steffanx> That's what i said dekar__
2011-09-24T14:27:12 < Steffanx> Its seems to be a while ago someone bought that
2011-09-24T14:27:16 < Steffanx> 6th of june
2011-09-24T14:35:21 < dekar__> https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/subscription3053
2011-09-24T14:38:57 < dekar__> https://sourcery.mentor.com/GNUToolchain/doc11463/getting-started.pdf
2011-09-24T14:39:01 < dekar__> they mention m4
2011-09-24T14:42:09 < Steffanx> Yes, indeed
2011-09-24T14:49:47 < dekar__> jpa-,   try "uint16_t get_time() __attribute__ (volatile, always_inline)"
2011-09-24T16:20:49 < Thorn> are they going to fix any problems from their 60-page f1 errata in f4? they apparently didn't fix anything in f2
2011-09-24T16:21:35 < Steffanx> They don't?
2011-09-24T16:23:43 < Steffanx> The F2 is still pretty new isn't it?
2011-09-24T16:24:33 < Thorn> the point is, it inherited all the peripheral bugs from f1 afaik
2011-09-24T16:26:15 < Thorn> and there's no indication that they're preparing a new revision of either
2011-09-24T16:26:22 < Steffanx> Hehe, the f4 too
2011-09-24T16:26:46 < Steffanx> Or at least, some of them
2011-09-24T16:27:36 < Steffanx> That's silly indeed
2011-09-24T16:28:06 < Thorn> did they fire those who wrote peripheral designs right after version 1 was delivered? or did they license IPs or something?
2011-09-24T16:28:27 < Steffanx> I think it's a managers thing..
2011-09-24T16:28:48 < Steffanx> Atmel does the same thing
2011-09-24T16:28:58 < Steffanx> The release a shitload of new controllers with the same buggy peripherals
2011-09-24T16:29:17 < Steffanx> The finally released a new one, with most of the bugs fixed
2011-09-24T16:29:26 < Steffanx> *they
2011-09-24T16:31:41  * Laurenceb is reading the stm32f1 errata
2011-09-24T16:31:47 < Laurenceb> 2.11.1 i dont get it
2011-09-24T16:31:58 < Laurenceb> "When the EV7, EV7_1, EV6_1, EV6_3, EV2, EV8, and EV3 events are not managed before
2011-09-24T16:31:58 < Laurenceb> the current byte is being transferred, problems may be encountered
2011-09-24T16:31:58 < Laurenceb> "
2011-09-24T16:32:05 < Steffanx> Which document?
2011-09-24T16:32:12 < Steffanx> They seem to have multiple for the f1xx's
2011-09-24T16:32:16 < Laurenceb> surely thats to be expected, as youd be using the buffering in that case
2011-09-24T16:32:22 < Laurenceb> and itd overfill
2011-09-24T16:32:36 < Laurenceb> the CB version
2011-09-24T16:32:41 < Steffanx> The document i have in front of me has no 11.1
2011-09-24T16:32:41 < Laurenceb> top one on the download page
2011-09-24T16:38:10 < Steffanx> Sometimes I wonder if they test a device before they release it
2011-09-24T16:38:15 < Steffanx> Some bugs are sooo stupid
2011-09-24T16:38:24 < Steffanx> And they should've seen them
2011-09-24T16:44:15 < Thorn> btw, some f1 chips have revisions A & Z (or A,B & Z). does Z mean final?
2011-09-24T16:45:03 < Thorn> (DBGMCU_IDCODE_REV_ID bits in DBGMCU->IDCODE)
2011-09-24T17:10:53 < grummund> Thorn: see the datasheet errata
2011-09-24T17:13:38 < grummund> early chips missing UID, ie it would read as 0
2011-09-24T17:14:23 < grummund> and other issues, probably
2011-09-24T17:40:56 < Thorn> revision Z is encoded as 0x1001 or 0x2001, not 0
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2011-09-24T18:08:13 < dekar__> jpa-, did you try it yet?
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2011-09-24T19:36:03 < jpa-> dekar__: no, i was gone for a few hours :)
2011-09-24T19:36:32 < dekar__> jpa-, try it now then :D
2011-09-24T19:36:56 < dekar__> still a gcc bug ofc, but maybe that's a workaround :/
2011-09-24T19:37:13 < jpa-> dekar__: well if it happens with plain gcc, i can report it
2011-09-24T19:37:30 < jpa-> but with codesourcery i can't know if it is their addition or in the gcc mainline
2011-09-24T19:38:24 < dekar__> then use the summon-toolchain thing to build a mainline gcc toolchain, I think you can disable all the patches they use
2011-09-24T19:40:26 < Steffanx> Hows it going with your ps3 dekar__ ? :0
2011-09-24T19:40:29 < Steffanx> *:)
2011-09-24T19:40:46 < jpa-> yeah, just have to figure out the latest versions of the packages
2011-09-24T19:41:57 < dekar__> Steffanx, I've been ignoring it so far - moved the controllers to some drawer like a week ago since they're were collecting dust
2011-09-24T19:42:23 < dekar__> I am not much of a gamer anyway
2011-09-24T19:42:24 < Steffanx> :P
2011-09-24T19:43:18 < dekar__> that thing was such a waste of money, not my money at least
2011-09-24T19:43:39 < dekar__> I'll hack it once I get those teensy++ boards though
2011-09-24T19:44:23 < Steffanx> That psgroove is ported to alsmost every platform..
2011-09-24T19:44:30 < jpa-> i wonder why it wants to build newlib and gcc together
2011-09-24T19:44:44 < dekar__> Steffanx, you mean that USB hack? it has been patched a while ago
2011-09-24T19:44:54 < Steffanx> Oh, you need your teensy for something else?
2011-09-24T19:44:56 < dekar__> I have to solder like 30 pins to the NOR memory
2011-09-24T19:45:14 < dekar__> not too much fun I guess
2011-09-24T19:46:45 < dekar__> will be my first AVR - so exited!... not really :P
2011-09-24T19:47:37 < Steffanx> It's VERY easy :)
2011-09-24T19:47:48 < Steffanx> Easier than STM32 imho
2011-09-24T19:50:02 < dekar__> Steffanx, I even used the Kinect - like thrice
2011-09-24T19:50:31 < dekar__> I can dance "Evacuate the Dancefloor" 5 stars now - at easy :)
2011-09-24T19:51:55 < Steffanx> yay'
2011-09-24T19:52:19 < dekar__> oh and pokerface at medium I think
2011-09-24T19:52:50 < dekar__> then I decided sweating wasn't the way games are meant to be played
2011-09-24T20:03:29 < dekar__> I have to say dance central is pretty cool, but it's just singleplayer :/
2011-09-24T20:08:05 < jpa-> dekar__: did not build; configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES.; i'll just work around it with codesourcery
2011-09-24T20:08:32 < dekar__> -.-
2011-09-24T20:09:09 < dekar__> try the "uint16_t get_time() __attribute__ (volatile, always_inline)"
2011-09-24T20:12:04 < jpa-> hmm i don't think volatile is a valid attribute for functions
2011-09-24T20:14:26 < jpa-> but static void __attribute__((optimize("O2"))) sleep(int ms) works
2011-09-24T20:14:49 < Steffanx> What's the problem btw?
2011-09-24T20:14:55 < Steffanx> GCC optimizes it away?
2011-09-24T20:16:53 < jpa-> gcc forgets that TIM6->CNT is volatile
2011-09-24T20:16:58 < jpa-> so it thinks that sleep never retursn
2011-09-24T20:20:03 < dekar__> jpa-, it is valid, I have used it
2011-09-24T20:20:05 < dekar__> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.1.0/gcc/Function-Attributes.html
2011-09-24T20:20:58 < jpa-> dekar__: i can't find it in the list o_O
2011-09-24T20:21:44 < dekar__> wow, you're right - my bad O.o
2011-09-24T20:21:52 < dekar__> but I am pretty sure it exists
2011-09-24T20:23:16 < jpa-> but yeah, looks like always_inline actually helps
2011-09-24T20:24:20 < dekar__> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4826719/c-volatile-member-functions
2011-09-24T20:24:32 < dekar__> maybe it's some c++ only feature and I mixed it up :/
2011-09-24T20:24:44 < dekar__> idk, didn't really look into it, but I have seen it before
2011-09-24T20:25:02 < jpa-> AFAIK volatile applies only to data, like const
2011-09-24T20:25:11 < jpa-> so in c++ member functions it makes sense
2011-09-24T20:26:43 < dekar__> yeah, I just assumed it would work like an added volatile for every data access in this function - and I thought it might kickstart your gcc into working properly :/
2011-09-24T20:27:23 < dekar__> just random guessing :)
2011-09-24T20:28:06 < dekar__> but I guess it makes sense that inlining helps
2011-09-24T20:30:46 < jpa-> too bad that i'm hitting the same bug in another function
2011-09-24T20:30:50 < jpa-> something must be wrong now
2011-09-24T20:30:54 < jpa-> i didn't have any trouble before
2011-09-24T20:31:26 < dekar__> jpa-, another idea - try "volatile uint16_t get_time()"
2011-09-24T20:31:48 < dekar__> maybe it isn't a bug, maybe it's supposed to be like that - idk
2011-09-24T20:32:08 < jpa-> it is not supposed to be like that.
2011-09-24T20:32:57 < dekar__> jpa-, I have seen C++ omit copy constructors randomly - that is actually fully standards compliant behavior
2011-09-24T20:34:12 < dekar__> it was like -O0 called them and -O1 and higher just recycled old objects instead
2011-09-24T20:34:17 < jpa-> can someone try this and post the result? http://paste.dy.fi/mcc/plain
2011-09-24T20:34:56 < dekar__> I'll do it, I have several toolchains set up so I can try them all if you want
2011-09-24T20:35:38 < jpa-> try the one in which you trust the most :)
2011-09-24T20:37:24 < jpa-> adding volatile to the pointer (instead of inside the struct) works, but that is not how stm32f10x.h does it
2011-09-24T20:38:35 < dekar__> jpa-, http://paste.dy.fi/MqZ/plain
2011-09-24T20:39:31 < jpa-> ok, it works for you
2011-09-24T20:39:34 < jpa-> which toolchain? :)
2011-09-24T20:39:50 < dekar__> codesourcery 2011.03
2011-09-24T20:40:10 < dekar__> now it's getting weird XD
2011-09-24T20:40:15 < dekar__> what platform are you on?
2011-09-24T20:40:28 < dekar__> I am debian/linux x64
2011-09-24T20:40:31 < jpa-> oh, why am i still with codesourcery 2010.09
2011-09-24T20:41:02 < dekar__> I had a ton of random bugs with the older one as well :/
2011-09-24T20:42:27 < dekar__> jpa-, using "2010q1" it still works for me though
2011-09-24T20:43:12 < dekar__> just update and forget about it :)
2011-09-24T20:43:15 < jpa-> i wonder what possibly could have changed on my system, because i have done similar things before and never had trouble
2011-09-24T20:44:44 < dekar__> get a new one and try: https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/subscription3053
2011-09-24T20:45:37 < jpa-> yeah did already, trying now
2011-09-24T20:45:51 < jpa-> it compiled correctly atleast
2011-09-24T20:46:03 < jpa-> (well, seemingly correctly)
2011-09-24T20:48:23 < jpa-> yay it works
2011-09-24T20:48:28 < dekar__> nice
2011-09-24T20:48:28 < jpa-> dekar__: thanks for helping :)
2011-09-24T20:48:42 < dekar__> bugs like the one you had really suck -.
2011-09-24T20:48:45 < dekar__> *-.-
2011-09-24T20:49:05 < jpa-> compiler bugs always suck
2011-09-24T20:49:09 < dekar__> I wonder how you'd debug something like that on java - it would start of interpreting your code -> no bug
2011-09-24T20:49:21 < dekar__> then compile it -> bug happens
2011-09-24T20:49:39 < dekar__> then since it loops for ages it would do hot-spot optimization -> bug vanishes XD
2011-09-24T20:49:54 < jpa-> hehe :)
2011-09-24T20:50:14 < dekar__> at least we can still see what's going on with C
2011-09-24T20:53:20 < jpa-> yeah, one just has to hope that platforms like .net and java are properly tested
2011-09-24T20:53:51 < jpa-> on the other hand, llvm does have a quite good debugging facility, just export the intermediate code from the optimization steps if you suspect a bug
2011-09-24T20:55:02 < dekar__> llvm seems to be really nice, I hear a lot of good things about it :)
2011-09-24T20:55:29 < dekar__> that's the C++ thing where it is allowed to omit code at will: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_value_optimization
2011-09-24T20:58:51 < jpa-> yeah, that is a bit nasty even though having side effects in copy contructor is not very smart
2011-09-24T20:59:36 < dekar__> jpa-, it affects the destructor as well
2011-09-24T21:01:17 < dekar__> I really dislike that changing the optimization is able to change your application, I mean it could also hide bugs. Like a broken default copy constructor for example, you wouldn't see it until you compile using -O0.
2011-09-24T21:02:18 < dekar__> then some other time you need -O0 to debug something else and BAM half of your application becomes weird
2011-09-24T21:02:29 < jpa-> gah, it's amazing how many bugs i manage to add into the simplest of routines
2011-09-24T21:03:16 < dekar__> jpa-, I realized I've had memory corruption in my USB driver for ages as well :/
2011-09-24T21:03:46 < dekar__> it just never resulted in any bugs, I randomly found it
2011-09-24T21:04:48 < dekar__> but hell, everything is buggy - firefox just crashed on me earlier today -.-"
2011-09-24T21:05:13 < dekar__> I've seen quite a few kernel panics on Linux and even OSX
2011-09-24T21:05:35 < dekar__> Xorg had serious memory leaks for ages
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2011-09-24T21:46:32 < Steffanx> Xorg..
2011-09-24T23:59:13 < Thorn> what large/interesting open source stm32 projects are out there? I recently found http://www.openpilot.org/ which is impressive
--- Day changed Sun Sep 25 2011
2011-09-25T00:40:12 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-09-25T00:40:21  * Laurenceb has done a lot of work with that
2011-09-25T01:06:07 < Thorn> that is cool
2011-09-25T01:09:07 < Laurenceb> its overcomplex imo
2011-09-25T01:09:15 < Laurenceb> thats why im working on a simpler version
2011-09-25T01:09:50 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl
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2011-09-25T01:15:59 < Steffanx> And it has ugly code
2011-09-25T01:16:08 < Steffanx> That function with > 1000 lines
2011-09-25T01:17:18 < Thorn> it doesn't use rtos if I get it right?
2011-09-25T01:17:30 < Laurenceb> thats the most epic part of openpilot - the kalman
2011-09-25T01:17:38 < Laurenceb> Thorn: they rolled their own rtos
2011-09-25T01:17:41 < Steffanx> It's not epic, it's silly
2011-09-25T01:17:42 < Laurenceb> "PiOS"
2011-09-25T01:17:56 < Laurenceb> kalman is the most epic thing ever invented
2011-09-25T01:18:15 < Steffanx> Yes, but > 1000 lines of code is silly
2011-09-25T01:18:20 < Laurenceb> few people have actually made it work
2011-09-25T01:18:50 < Laurenceb> openpilot and paparazzi 'booz' are the only good OSS implimentations of kalman ive seen
2011-09-25T01:19:19 < Steffanx> I've looked into it once, i didn't get ANY good documentation
2011-09-25T01:19:34 < Steffanx> *didn't find
2011-09-25T01:20:48 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-09-25T01:20:52 < Laurenceb> read a book
2011-09-25T01:21:16 < Steffanx> Nah, those are way to 'mathematical'
2011-09-25T01:21:18 < Steffanx> *too
2011-09-25T01:21:27 < Steffanx> aka abracadabra
2011-09-25T01:21:29 < Thorn> they even made their own jtag adapter?
2011-09-25T01:21:44 < Steffanx> JTAG is very easy :P
2011-09-25T01:21:51 < Steffanx> That was probably the easiest part
2011-09-25T01:22:09 < Thorn> but why? there're a lot of ftdi-based ones
2011-09-25T01:23:20 < Thorn> I'm reading the Russian FAQ, it implies that this adapter is the only one that works with the board. hopefully that's not the case
2011-09-25T01:23:31 < Laurenceb> lol
2011-09-25T01:23:37 < Steffanx> You're russian?
2011-09-25T01:23:38 < Laurenceb> openpilot is a little mental
2011-09-25T01:23:49 < Laurenceb> they use a task for _everything_
2011-09-25T01:24:00 < Thorn> Steffanx: I am
2011-09-25T01:24:06 < Steffanx> ok :)
2011-09-25T01:25:10 < Thorn> I wonder if the desision to do a custom rtos was justified
2011-09-25T01:25:54  * Laurenceb is using the NVIC
2011-09-25T01:25:56 < Thorn> well as a learning experience it probably was
2011-09-25T01:26:06 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/interrupts.c
2011-09-25T01:26:32  * Laurenceb notices bugs in his code immediately on scrolling down
2011-09-25T01:26:58 < Laurenceb> but anyways, im attempting to use pre-emption groups
2011-09-25T01:27:26 < Laurenceb> line 111 is software triggered, and runs in low group priority
2011-09-25T01:28:29 < Thorn> so you only have 2 priorities?
2011-09-25T01:28:35 < Laurenceb> the other EXTI stuff fires off on data ready from sensors
2011-09-25T01:28:36 < Laurenceb> no
2011-09-25T01:28:43 < Thorn> I've never actually seen subpriorities used
2011-09-25T01:28:53 < Laurenceb> two priority _groups_
2011-09-25T01:30:05 < Thorn> right, I just called them priorities and subpriorities respectively
2011-09-25T01:30:49 < Laurenceb> ok im just going from comments in CMSIS
2011-09-25T01:31:29 < Laurenceb> but yeah i have the kalman code in a low priority group, so hardware servicing stuff can nest inside it
2011-09-25T01:31:59 < Laurenceb> theres interrupt driver i2c to the mems imu, but ive only fully tested it with polled code so far
2011-09-25T01:32:33 < Laurenceb> but yeah this is all coming together now and i should eventually have a single stm32 based openpilot compatible platform
2011-09-25T01:32:48 < Thorn> nested interrupts must be fun to debug
2011-09-25T01:32:49 < Laurenceb> itll talk to the groud control segment
2011-09-25T01:33:31 < Laurenceb> ive tested everything with a simpler interrupt structure, so i could check all the timings and stuff
2011-09-25T01:33:53 < Laurenceb> at some point i need a version 2 of the hardware, with M4
2011-09-25T01:34:15 < Laurenceb> then the kalman should run at 1Khz or faster, instead of 150hz
2011-09-25T01:34:38 < Steffanx> m4..
2011-09-25T01:34:42 < Steffanx> Seriously?!
2011-09-25T01:34:54 < Laurenceb> stm32f4, yes
2011-09-25T01:35:04 < Steffanx> overkill ftw
2011-09-25T01:36:27 < Steffanx> Ah, you use floats ..
2011-09-25T01:37:03 < Thorn> my browser froze on Control/ekf.c
2011-09-25T01:37:48 < Steffanx> Mine didn't
2011-09-25T01:37:57 < Steffanx> but yeah, that's the 'nice' function
2011-09-25T01:38:45 < Steffanx> My brain freezes on that
2011-09-25T01:38:59 < Laurenceb> theres about 20K floating point operations in there
2011-09-25T01:39:01 < Thorn> opera hung too
2011-09-25T01:39:12 < Laurenceb> inlined
2011-09-25T01:39:27 < Steffanx> I wonder how much faster fix point would be
2011-09-25T01:39:50 < Laurenceb> who cares when you have M4
2011-09-25T01:40:08 < Steffanx> I do
2011-09-25T01:40:26 < Steffanx> Not everyone wants to use a expensive controller when a less expensive one is useable too
2011-09-25T01:40:34 < Thorn> I hope that code is somehow autogenerated
2011-09-25T01:41:13 < Steffanx> I don't want to modify it :)
2011-09-25T01:42:38 < Laurenceb> ive added a few functions ot mine from the origional
2011-09-25T01:42:49 < Laurenceb> you just avoid the core inlined matrix bashing
2011-09-25T01:44:46 < Laurenceb> bbl
2011-09-25T02:02:55 < Laurenceb> back
2011-09-25T02:03:07 < Steffanx> front
2011-09-25T02:03:34 < Steffanx> That was more a 'brb' not a 'bbl' Laurenceb :P
2011-09-25T02:04:05 < Laurenceb> i eat fast and theres nothing on tv
2011-09-25T02:04:29 < Steffanx> I can't sleep that fast, so have a good night
2011-09-25T02:04:37 < Steffanx> + evening
2011-09-25T02:05:15 < Laurenceb> cya
2011-09-25T02:05:27 < Thorn> night
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2011-09-26T03:34:38 < DX^> Hello
2011-09-26T03:35:02 < DX^> I'm looking at STM32F102R4, but I'm not sure if it supports external RAM
2011-09-26T03:35:47 < DX^> I'm trying to create a controller for a 24 bit LCD I have, and need to find a decent uC to do so, was hoping I could go with STM32
2011-09-26T03:42:19 < dekar_> DX^, you'll probably have to drive it at 16bit if you plan on (ab)using the FSMC like ST suggests
2011-09-26T03:44:40 < dekar_> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/APPLICATION_NOTE/CD00278141.pdf
2011-09-26T04:04:49 < erik-k> Okay, so... effing uart, how does it work when there's half a dozen of them and no apparent way to select one in UART_*?
2011-09-26T05:13:40 < erik-k> okay I'm officially retarded. nvm.
2011-09-26T05:18:47 < DX^> dekar_: Thanks.  I'm checking that out now.
2011-09-26T05:27:18 < DX^> Hmm
2011-09-26T05:27:27 < DX^> This makes sense except for how I'd drive a 24 bit display as 16 bit
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2011-09-26T09:16:03 < jpa-> by leaving some bits as 0
2011-09-26T09:16:26 < jpa-> like 16-bit colors
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2011-09-26T11:52:39 < erik-k> Anyone here?
2011-09-26T11:55:25 < erik-k> This is my clock setup/init routine; http://pastebin.ca/2082976
2011-09-26T11:55:57 < erik-k> I have the stm32h107 Olimex bare header board
2011-09-26T11:56:36 < erik-k> I'm damn sure my clock is set to 36MHz there,
2011-09-26T11:57:25 < erik-k> Yet I program the indicated 0x753 into the usart baudrate generator to get 19.2Kbaud,
2011-09-26T11:58:06 < erik-k> and instead of the expected 52us bit period I have ~22.5
2011-09-26T12:44:52 < erik-k> By putting an empirical value of 0x1072 into the BRR I can get successful operation at 19.2Kbaud, but this implies the APB1 system is running at 80MHz which is absurd
2011-09-26T12:45:57 < erik-k> Can anyone tell me what's going on here?
2011-09-26T12:46:28 < Steffanx> I have to confess i never wrote the clock initialization myself
2011-09-26T12:46:37 < erik-k> http://pastebin.ca/2082992 new pastebin that will last 2 days
2011-09-26T14:24:04 < jpa-> erik-k: hmm, can't find a mistake :)
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2011-09-26T20:15:56 < Steffanx> dekar__ dekar__ !
2011-09-26T20:16:04 < Steffanx> You there?
2011-09-26T20:16:49 < dekar__> yeah
2011-09-26T20:17:28 < Steffanx> Uhm, you remember which board you've seen on ebay with that sram?
2011-09-26T20:17:38 < Steffanx> You don't have a link do you?
2011-09-26T20:17:47 < Steffanx> !seen someone
2011-09-26T20:18:22 < dekar__> hm
2011-09-26T20:18:45 < dekar__> http://www.ebay.de/itm/STM32F207ZG-module-HY-STM32F2xxCore144-Core-Dev-Board-/170691323114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bdfee4ea
2011-09-26T20:19:26 < Steffanx> Hmm, pretty pricy for a china product
2011-09-26T20:19:49 < dekar__> w/e, company pays for it :)
2011-09-26T20:19:58 < Steffanx> Yes, for you
2011-09-26T20:21:41 < Steffanx> And 'only' 1MB SRAM
2011-09-26T20:24:01 < dekar__> w/e - that's like a magnitude more than you usually have
2011-09-26T20:25:50 < Steffanx> Yeah, but if i could trade 1mb SRAM for 64mb nor flash ..
2011-09-26T20:25:51 < Steffanx> :P
2011-09-26T20:25:58 < Steffanx> *nand
2011-09-26T20:26:34 < jpa-> is that jtag header 2mm pitch? o_O
2011-09-26T20:28:20 < Steffanx> I guess so
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2011-09-27T08:39:02 < erik-k> 2 questions... is it possible to setup DMA for data that'll trickle in byte by byte?
2011-09-27T08:39:34 < erik-k> And if so, is it worth doing so for a serial connection <= 115200Baud, vs setting up the "byte received" interrupt?
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2011-09-27T12:52:48  * Steffanx wants the Oak board from leaflabs
2011-09-27T12:53:02 < Steffanx> FPGA + Cortex-M3 :)
2011-09-27T12:53:20 < Thorn> what fpga does it have?
2011-09-27T12:54:24 < Steffanx> 250k gate Xilinx Spartan 3E
2011-09-27T12:54:33 < Steffanx> It doesn't seem to be available yet though :(
2011-09-27T12:55:27 < Thorn> too bad, if it had a Cyclone I'd probably order that
2011-09-27T12:56:01 < Steffanx> I've only worked with a Cyclone before, i don't really know the difference
2011-09-27T12:57:01 < Thorn> I keep hearing that altera synthetizer is much better. besides you need another programming adapter
2011-09-27T12:57:10 < Thorn> and another 3,000 page manual
2011-09-27T12:57:16 < BrainDamage> in linux, the altera tools are much saner than xilinx
2011-09-27T12:58:49 < Steffanx> So, you should make that Cyclone + cortex-m3 board Thorn :P
2011-09-27T12:59:26 < Thorn> I've been wondering how difficult it is to design something like that (also external sram)
2011-09-27T13:00:38 < Thorn> one question I've no idea about is how many connections you need between  mcu and fpga (and which pins)
2011-09-27T13:00:49 < Thorn> that's probably application specific
2011-09-27T13:02:36 < Steffanx> That Oak used the FSMC iirc
2011-09-27T13:02:41 < Steffanx> Not sure about that though
2011-09-27T13:04:27 < Thorn> so first we have a cortex-m3 arduino, now it's cortex-m3 + fpga arduino. how are they going to call their fpga projects, IP sketches? sketch cores?
2011-09-27T13:06:12 < Steffanx> It has to be something that ends with duino or starts with ar :P
2011-09-27T13:07:59 < BrainDamage> duinoar
2011-09-27T13:09:06 < Thorn> it would be really cool to make an fpga-based video adapter for a high quality rgb display (such as HTC or iphone) and use that with an arm mcu
2011-09-27T13:13:33 < Steffanx> I was  more thinking about video/image processing
2011-09-27T13:15:34 < biot> Thorn: like a proper GPU fo the MCU to use?
2011-09-27T13:16:18 < Steffanx> I guess that's what he meant
2011-09-27T13:16:36 < Thorn> well modern GPUs have a whole lot of stuff onboard, but a framebuffer + interface is nice too for starters I'd say
2011-09-27T13:17:21 < Thorn> although it would be a natural next step to implement at least basic 2d drawing functions (line, circle etc)
2011-09-27T13:17:58 < Thorn> so that the mcu doesn't need to stream pixel data as much
2011-09-27T13:18:47 < Thorn> character generator too
2011-09-27T13:19:20 < Thorn> hopefully that doesn't require external ram for the fpga, the project seems expensive as it is :)
2011-09-27T13:32:46 < biot> sounds like kind of a cool project actually
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2011-09-28T12:21:46 <+izua_> hey.
2011-09-28T12:21:53 <+izua_> wow lol o_O
2011-09-28T12:32:14 < Steffanx> Lo izua_
2011-09-28T12:32:17 < Steffanx> lol what?
2011-09-28T12:34:48 <+izua_> 14 people o_O
2011-09-28T12:36:03 < Steffanx> Yes, yes new record :)
2011-09-28T12:36:24 < Steffanx> Even Laurenceb is here without his clone :)
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2011-09-28T12:53:42 < Laurenceb> hi
2011-09-28T12:54:04 < Steffanx> Whoa, you are early
2011-09-28T12:54:12 < Laurenceb> huh
2011-09-28T12:54:21 < Steffanx> Nvm
2011-09-28T12:54:24 < Steffanx> You are not from the US
2011-09-28T12:54:29 < Laurenceb> nope, UK
2011-09-28T12:54:33 < Steffanx> I know
2011-09-28T12:54:39 <+izua_> guys
2011-09-28T12:54:44 <+izua_> how would you debounce a 4x4 keyboard
2011-09-28T12:54:50 < Steffanx> You're hostname tells me that Laurenceb
2011-09-28T12:54:59 <+izua_> and then set up an event chain for button clicks and holds
2011-09-28T12:55:02 <+izua_> with minimum cpu usage?
2011-09-28T12:55:08 < Steffanx> External hw? :)
2011-09-28T12:55:30 <+izua_> without external hw, lol.
2011-09-28T12:55:46 <+izua_> plus, that would only handle debouncing, unless you mean a mcu dedicated just for the ui
2011-09-28T12:56:26 < Steffanx> I only meant for the debouncing
2011-09-28T13:27:13 < erik-k> This is absurd... I need to set my uart2 divide at exactly twice the predicted value,
2011-09-28T13:27:26 < Steffanx> He
2011-09-28T13:27:39 < erik-k> which implies the apb2 bus is at 72MHz, in which case of course the thing wouldn't remotely work right
2011-09-28T13:30:55 < erik-k> http://pastebin.ca/2083704 Can anyone else see me mis-setting the clock?
2011-09-28T13:31:03 < erik-k> (25MHz external crystal)
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2011-09-28T13:54:27 < jpa-> izua_: is your user really typing so fast that CPU usage is a problem?
2011-09-28T13:55:43 < Steffanx> Maybe he has something else to do? :)
2011-09-28T13:55:55 < Steffanx> *he = the ARM
2011-09-28T13:56:18 < jpa-> still.
2011-09-28T13:56:32 < jpa-> it's not like 0.1% in cpu usage matters
2011-09-28T13:57:17 < jpa-> (hmm.. one reason could be if he is running from a very slow clock, like 32 768Hz)
2011-09-28T14:10:54 < Thorn> erik-k: usart is on APB1, and you have both AHB and APB1 prescalers set to /1
2011-09-28T14:11:24 < Thorn> (even though according to the manual APB1 can't run faster than 36MHz)
2011-09-28T14:11:39 < Steffanx> You can overclock an stm32 pretty well
2011-09-28T14:11:42 < Steffanx> Ask dekar_
2011-09-28T14:12:22 < Steffanx> He over clock a 72MHz stm32 to +-128MHz iirc
2011-09-28T14:12:32 < Steffanx> He knows the details, i don't
2011-09-28T14:13:09 < Thorn> that's probably what's going on if the usart is running
2011-09-28T14:13:52 < Thorn> but apb1 is clocked 100% faster than it should be in this config
2011-09-28T14:14:18 < Thorn> I've even read somewhere that some 48Kb SRAM parts actually have 64Kb
2011-09-28T14:49:25 -!- izua_ [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2011-09-28T14:58:40 < Laurenceb> -128MHz?
2011-09-28T14:58:57 < Steffanx> iirc, yes
2011-09-28T14:59:03 < Steffanx> Or something like that
2011-09-28T15:01:12 < Laurenceb> i was joking
2011-09-28T15:01:18 < Laurenceb> -ive frequency XD
2011-09-28T15:01:42 < Steffanx> Oh, now i see it's a - and not a ~ :P
2011-09-28T15:01:51 < Steffanx> I really have to get new glasses
2011-09-28T15:02:29 < Steffanx> Now the joke makes sense
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2011-09-28T15:14:21 < Laurenceb> http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/funny-facebook-fails-nerd-win.jpg
2011-09-28T15:16:07 < Steffanx> I don't see the relation with facebook, other than it being posted on facebook, but.. who cares :)
2011-09-28T15:42:55 < jpa-> yeah, the prefix is constant
2011-09-28T17:09:08 <+izua> jpa-: it's not a stm32
2011-09-28T17:09:26 <+izua> and the cpu usage for debouncing is still there, even ifthe user doesn't type anything
2011-09-28T17:10:46 < Steffanx> AVR izua ?
2011-09-28T17:11:09 <+izua> yep
2011-09-28T17:11:10 < Thorn> what's your algorithm? you don't need any debouncing if you scan the keyboard say every 20ms
2011-09-28T17:11:57 <+izua> so far i'm adding 1 every time to counter [x] if key [x] is 1, and subtracting 1 if key[x] is 0 from counter[x]
2011-09-28T17:12:47 <+izua> if counter[x] == 8, register a click
2011-09-28T17:13:08 <+izua> if counter[x] == 32, register a push, and set the counter to 24 (so after 8 cycles, a new push event is registered)
2011-09-28T17:14:00 < Thorn> do you interrupt onkey presses?
2011-09-28T17:14:18 <+izua> no, that's retarded
2011-09-28T17:15:03 <+izua> you feed all the noise directly in the cpu
2011-09-28T17:15:44 <+izua> it's a timer sampling the matrix at a constant rate
2011-09-28T17:15:58 < Thorn> what rate?
2011-09-28T17:16:20 <+izua> about 100 Hz
2011-09-28T17:17:02 < Thorn> try running it less frequently with no debouncing checks at all
2011-09-28T17:18:21 <+izua> ...
2011-09-28T18:43:38 < Laurenceb> <kenz_> I was holding a STM32F4Discovery yesterday.
2011-09-28T18:43:50 < Laurenceb> <kenz_> Embedded Systems Conference in Boston
2011-09-28T18:47:42 < Laurenceb> <kenz_> It appears they're giving them out for free
2011-09-28T18:48:42 < BrainDamage> baaah :/
2011-09-28T18:49:25 < BrainDamage> the plane ticket would cost me like only 300€, but hey, free board!
2011-09-28T18:51:12 < Thorn> http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp
2011-09-28T18:52:13 < BrainDamage> Please contact our Distributors by clicking on Contact Us Distributor (s) not reported inventory
2011-09-28T18:56:05 < Thorn> I wonder if a meg of SRAM would be way too expensive
2011-09-28T19:14:35 < Steffanx> When you're in the US you can go to a conference too Laurenceb
2011-09-28T19:14:45 < Steffanx> Or in Canada
2011-09-28T19:15:04 < Steffanx> The board is only ~19euro/dollar anyway
2011-09-28T19:15:31 < BrainDamage> except no distributor has it available?
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2011-09-28T19:17:50 < erik-k> Thorn: The problem is my system clock is only set to 36MHz...
2011-09-28T19:19:45 < erik-k> And I thought only usart1/usb is on the high speed bus, the rest should be on the slower peripheral one
2011-09-28T19:20:29 < erik-k> (I'm using usart2 since my board takes usart1 to usb... meh on remap)
2011-09-28T19:20:40 < Thorn> are you sure you really have 36MHz?
2011-09-28T19:22:02 < erik-k> Don't have more than a few minutes to talk, but it certain seems it must be so... http://pastebin.ca/2083704 sets my multipliers to 9 and 4 and the divisors to 5 and 5
2011-09-28T19:23:59 < Thorn> try clearing PLLMUL bits before RCC->CFGR  |=  RCC_CFGR_PLLMULL4;
2011-09-28T19:24:33 < Thorn> maybe there're bits set to 1 by startup code
2011-09-28T19:26:04 < erik-k> Speaking of which, is there some reason for the PLLMUL vs PLLMULL nonsense?
2011-09-28T19:27:19 < Thorn> no idea. datasheet names don't match library ones
2011-09-28T19:28:04 < erik-k> :/ Luckily setting that tends to be a one-time thing until it's time to save power
2011-09-28T19:29:04 < Thorn> everybody uses the standard peripheral library anyway
2011-09-28T19:30:26 < Steffanx> I did for my project too, but i'll not use it for my next project
2011-09-28T19:30:39 < Steffanx> It makes it harder to understand what really happens
2011-09-28T19:31:16 < erik-k> Is there anything in the licensing terms that's not nice to OSS?
2011-09-28T19:31:57 < Steffanx> Not that i know of
2011-09-28T19:32:09 < Steffanx> Only something about "It's all your problem when things go wrong"
2011-09-28T19:32:42 < erik-k> Yeah, seen that at the top of stm32f10x.h. Came across libopenstm32 which is why I'm asking
2011-09-28T19:32:42 < Thorn> they tried to put something stupid into the license but reverted it after a forum outrage
2011-09-28T19:32:52 < Thorn> can't recall what it was
2011-09-28T19:33:29 < erik-k> On one hand, writing everything from first principles is good for learning, but slow/bug prone/reinventing the wheel
2011-09-28T19:34:46 < erik-k> Well, thanks for the note on PLLMUL, I've added the clear but no time to test right now. must run along :(
2011-09-28T19:34:59 < erik-k> have a nice day
2011-09-28T19:48:03 < jpa-> izua: yeah, lower rate can work
2011-09-28T19:48:07 < jpa-> izua: test how it feels
2011-09-28T19:58:00 < dekar_> Steffanx, izua did any of you try the full codesourcery toolchain? like their startup code and linkerscript? I managed to get it working, but that's so weird
2011-09-28T19:58:35 < dekar_> like you have to include some wrapper header in all files you compile to typedef all the stm32 interrupt names to codesourcery ones
2011-09-28T19:58:36 < Steffanx> I have to confess that i don't know with startup code i use
2011-09-28T19:59:13 < Thorn> I use codesourcery but not their startup code though
2011-09-28T19:59:54 < Steffanx> "MCD Application Team" that's probably not codesourcery :)
2011-09-28T20:00:01 < dekar_> :)
2011-09-28T20:00:51 < dekar_> http://pastebin.com/xn35iLD7
2011-09-28T20:01:54 < dekar_> once you do all that stuff it just uses the gcc default startup code
2011-09-28T20:02:05 < Steffanx> Fancy code :)
2011-09-28T20:03:04 < dekar_> crti.o crtn.o crtbegin.o is the gcc startup code I think
2011-09-28T20:03:06 < Thorn> so what does __cs3_reset do? copy .data, setup clock, call main as usual?
2011-09-28T20:04:54 < dekar_> Thorn, http://pastebin.com/fxL1SWM4
2011-09-28T20:05:19 < dekar_> you have to do all those defines as well, like __thumb2__
2011-09-28T20:12:28 < dekar_> http://pastebin.com/1AQwuEsR
2011-09-28T20:13:21 < dekar_> I guess I can't use other toolchains anymore XD
2011-09-28T20:14:35 < dekar_>  /arm-2011.03/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/4.5.2/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb2/libcs3.a(start_c.o)
2011-09-28T20:15:58 < dekar_> don't have their toolchains source :/
2011-09-28T20:16:38 < Steffanx> download :)
2011-09-28T20:18:03 < Thorn> oh and btw, what about F4 support in codesourcery?
2011-09-28T20:18:24 < Thorn> or rather cortex-m4
2011-09-28T20:18:38 < Steffanx> m4F :)
2011-09-28T20:20:00 < Thorn> http://efytimes.com/e1/70034/fullnews.htm
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2011-09-28T20:20:45 < Thorn> dev kit (seems similar to f4discovery) is only $149
2011-09-28T20:23:59 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-590c53ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2011-09-28T21:01:23 < dekar__> Thorn, march=armv7-a march=armv7;march=armv7-r march=armv7;march=armv7-m march=armv7;march=armv7e-m march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-a9 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-a8 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-a5 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-r4 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-r4f march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-r5 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-m4 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-m3 march=armv7;mcpu=cortex-m1 march=armv6-m;mcpu=cortex-m0 march=armv6-m;armv6s-m march=armv6-m;mthumb mthumb;march=armv7 march=
2011-09-28T21:01:23 < dekar__> armv7;march=armv6-m march=armv6-m;mfix-cortex-m3-ldrd mfix-cortex-m3-ldrd;
2011-09-28T21:01:53 < dekar__> I guess you're good to go
2011-09-28T21:03:30 < Thorn> there's -m4 (and -r4f) but not -m4f
2011-09-28T21:03:43 < dekar__> what's m4f anyway?
2011-09-28T21:04:18 < Thorn> as Steffanx said, tha architecture is cortex-m4f (with fpu)
2011-09-28T21:05:22 < dekar__> I guess you won't have float then :)
2011-09-28T21:06:23 < Thorn> that's what I've been wondering too
2011-09-28T21:07:33 < Thorn> even if so, codesourcery should add fpu support soon, given that there're multiple families being released
2011-09-28T21:11:16 < dekar__> this is weird: http://pastebin.com/Agd6Aubj
2011-09-28T21:11:25 < dekar__> codebench toolchain vs the free one
2011-09-28T21:12:00 < dekar__> the codebench one is MUCH newer
2011-09-28T21:15:27 < dekar__> izua, Steffanx I should be allowed to redistribute the CodeBench toolchain, shouldn't I?
2011-09-28T21:18:08 < Steffanx> CodeBench?
2011-09-28T21:19:14 < Steffanx> What is mfpu=neon-vfpv4 ?
2011-09-28T21:19:20 < Steffanx> Isn't that floating point blalba?
2011-09-28T21:19:50 < dekar__> idk
2011-09-28T21:19:55 < dekar__> neon is SIMD
2011-09-28T21:20:12 < dekar__> vfp sounds like virtual floating point
2011-09-28T21:20:26 < dekar__> I guess it's just using neon to emulate float
2011-09-28T21:20:51 < dekar__> their makeskript is soooo scary! "mkdir -p /scratch/vladimir/summer-arm-eabi/obj"
2011-09-28T21:20:54 < Thorn> are the command line tools from codebench copy-protected?
2011-09-28T21:20:59 < dekar__> vladimir!
2011-09-28T21:21:21 < Steffanx> Hehe
2011-09-28T21:21:23 < dekar__> in sovjet russia vladimir compiles you!
2011-09-28T21:21:28 < Steffanx> Help!
2011-09-28T21:21:36 < dekar__> but it writes to /
2011-09-28T21:21:45 < dekar__> I guess you need root to compile the toolchain
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2011-09-28T21:21:47 < dekar__> so scary
2011-09-28T21:22:09 < dekar__> if any of you guys wants it I could upload it somewhere
2011-09-28T21:22:30 < dekar__> Steffanx, CodeBench is the IDE they sell
2011-09-28T21:22:38 < Thorn> that would be nice
2011-09-28T21:22:41 < Steffanx> CodeSourcery?
2011-09-28T21:23:05 < dekar__> yeah
2011-09-28T21:23:10 < Thorn> I didn't expect their free version to be feature limited
2011-09-28T21:23:36 < dekar__> Thorn, I don't think it is limited, just a few months older
2011-09-28T21:26:34 < Thorn> note also the obvious lack of arm9 and arm11 in the free one
2011-09-28T21:26:40 < dekar__> oh
2011-09-28T21:33:56 < dekar__> Mentor Graphics uses Canadian cross compilers so you may need to modify various configuration options and paths if you are building natively.
2011-09-28T21:34:07 < dekar__> canadian... XD
2011-09-28T21:35:33 < Steffanx> lol?
2011-09-28T21:50:24 < dekar__> Thorn, Steffanx https://sourcery.mentor.com/GNUToolchain/release1920?@template=datasheet#run-time-libraries
2011-09-28T21:50:31 < dekar__> they are different - quite a lot
2011-09-28T21:51:49 < Steffanx> Hmm yeah, but what about the open srouce version
2011-09-28T21:51:52 < Steffanx> Which one is that?
2011-09-28T21:52:26 < Thorn> no free version there
2011-09-28T21:53:20 < dekar__> I somehow feel like they stopped releasing new lite versions :/
2011-09-28T21:53:45 < dekar__> anyway, my upload of the 2011.07 toolchain is nearly finished
2011-09-28T21:54:10 < Steffanx> Uh?
2011-09-28T21:54:31 < Steffanx> That's a non-free version?
2011-09-28T21:55:01 < Steffanx> Sorry, i didn't read the whole conversation
2011-09-28T21:55:14 < dekar__> yeah I have the non-free installed
2011-09-28T21:55:28 < Steffanx> Trial?
2011-09-28T21:55:32 < dekar__> yeah
2011-09-28T21:55:49 < Steffanx> You get the full toolchain by downloading the trial?
2011-09-28T21:55:54 < dekar__> yeah
2011-09-28T21:56:07 < Steffanx> That's…..
2011-09-28T21:56:25 < Steffanx> The toolchain has no expiration date/day i guess?
2011-09-28T21:56:50 < dekar__> dekar.wc3edit.net/stm32/sourceryg++-2011.07-41-arm-none-eabi.src.tar.bz2
2011-09-28T21:56:59 < dekar__> surely not, just their IDE
2011-09-28T21:57:10 < Steffanx> That's funny
2011-09-28T21:57:16 < dekar__> Steffanx, their toolchain contains non-free stuff though I think
2011-09-28T21:57:34 < Steffanx> 149mb, why toolchains are so large nowadays?
2011-09-28T21:57:41 < dekar__> it's the source
2011-09-28T21:57:54 < Thorn> but it can't have non-free stuff, gcc is gpl
2011-09-28T21:57:56 < dekar__> it's probably 1gb once you extracted it
2011-09-28T21:58:28 < dekar__> Thorn, sure it can, like their linkerscripts and assembly files aren't GPL but some BSD like CS license
2011-09-28T21:59:17 < Thorn> but the compiler itself can't? so they have to release their architecture support
2011-09-28T21:59:41 < dekar__> ya
2011-09-28T21:59:51 < dekar__> try to compile the source package I uploaded
2011-09-28T22:00:00 < dekar__> tell me whether it works
2011-09-28T22:00:04 < Thorn> downloading
2011-09-28T22:01:04 < dekar__> I just backported the free (BSD style) linkerscripts and support libs they include in their CodeBench toolchain to the lite one
2011-09-28T22:01:30 < dekar__> that was the stuff I showed you earlier
2011-09-28T22:03:52 < Thorn> is compilation as simple as running the .sh?
2011-09-28T22:04:03 < dekar__> didn't try, I doubt that though
2011-09-28T22:04:15 < dekar__> that's why I didn't feel like trying
2011-09-28T22:04:25 < dekar__> I am pretty sure you need to run it using the root user
2011-09-28T22:05:01 < dekar__> the .sh file is 4.5MB
2011-09-28T22:05:11 < Thorn> and it wants i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
2011-09-28T22:05:24 < dekar__> haha, the canadian compiler I guess XD
2011-09-28T22:06:31 < dekar__> alias i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc='ggc'
2011-09-28T22:06:33 < dekar__> and so on
2011-09-28T22:06:36 < dekar__> hf
2011-09-28T22:06:48 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-09-28T22:06:49 < dekar__> just enter that to your bash before you run it
2011-09-28T22:07:27 < dekar__> I guess we should start our own toolchain
2011-09-28T22:07:36 < dekar__> that stuff is pretty complicated though -.-"
2011-09-28T22:08:54 < Thorn> sourceryg++-2011.07-41-arm-none-eabi.sh: 55: Syntax error: "(" unexpected (expecting "}")
2011-09-28T22:09:06 < Thorn> local -a status=("${PIPESTATUS[@]}")
2011-09-28T22:09:10 < dekar__> haha
2011-09-28T22:09:31 < Steffanx> I'm not going to run it on my mac right now
2011-09-28T22:09:33 < dekar__> hf with that, I'll stay with the lite one for now
2011-09-28T22:09:37 < Steffanx> I can't take that risk
2011-09-28T22:09:44 < dekar__> Steffanx, XD
2011-09-28T22:09:48 < dekar__> I wouldn't do it as well
2011-09-28T22:10:10 < Steffanx> Have my last year project presentation this friday, so i NEED my notebook :P
2011-09-28T22:10:15 < dekar__> it will make a folder called vladimir somewhere in your root directory
2011-09-28T22:10:25 < dekar__> :D
2011-09-28T22:11:06 < Thorn> looks like their bash is also canadian
2011-09-28T22:11:31 < dekar__> Steffanx, speaking of mac - I'll get a new laptop, the x220 had annoying hardware problems all the time (had 2 repairs already)
2011-09-28T22:11:43 < dekar__> so I wonder whether I want a lenovo x1 or a macbook O.o
2011-09-28T22:11:43 < Steffanx> Lenovo ftw?! :P
2011-09-28T22:12:03 < dekar__> yeah that was I was thinking -.-"
2011-09-28T22:12:13 < dekar__> *that was what I was thinking
2011-09-28T22:12:48 < Steffanx> What happened with your 'old' macbook?
2011-09-28T22:12:55 < dekar__> still at the company I guess
2011-09-28T22:12:59 < Thorn> now it's complaining about a for loop 6 lines further
2011-09-28T22:13:15 < dekar__> I installed lion before I placed it in some drawer
2011-09-28T22:13:59 < dekar__> Steffanx, that one is kinda supposed to be the companies mac for platform support/testing
2011-09-28T22:13:59 < Steffanx> I hate giving presentations :(
2011-09-28T22:14:05 < Steffanx> Especially when it's not in my native language
2011-09-28T22:14:26 < dekar__> so I guess I have to either get a mac mini or something as replacement or just buy a new macbook if I want one
2011-09-28T22:14:32 < Steffanx> :D
2011-09-28T22:14:57 < dekar__> Steffanx, so which language will you use?
2011-09-28T22:15:04 < dekar__> try german :D
2011-09-28T22:15:07 < Steffanx> English
2011-09-28T22:15:17 < dekar__> not too bad imo
2011-09-28T22:15:22 < Steffanx> I have to do it in english
2011-09-28T22:15:36 < dekar__> most people have worse english than I, so idc too much
2011-09-28T22:16:00 < Steffanx> My english sucks, my vocabulary is tooo small
2011-09-28T22:16:47 < Steffanx> Thanks to the nice 'learning strategy' I used on high school
2011-09-28T22:16:53 < Steffanx> Learn to forget :)
2011-09-28T22:17:05 < dekar__> people at your country speak epic english, don't they? here in germany most people are barely able to give someone directions :/
2011-09-28T22:17:27 < Steffanx> Most of the dutch speak English with an awful accent
2011-09-28T22:17:36 < dekar__> orly?
2011-09-28T22:17:38 < Steffanx> Yes
2011-09-28T22:17:46 < Steffanx> The german accent is funny
2011-09-28T22:18:11 < Steffanx> Just like the east european accents :)
2011-09-28T22:18:18 < Steffanx> Incl. russia
2011-09-28T22:18:23 < dekar__> yah totally, I hate my accent :/
2011-09-28T22:18:40 < dekar__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K08etLXesE
2011-09-28T22:18:47 < dekar__> she doesn't have any accent
2011-09-28T22:19:18 < Steffanx> Most people don't have an accent when they sing
2011-09-28T22:19:54 < dekar__> I guess :)
2011-09-28T22:21:09 < dekar__> Steffanx, you don't have dubbed TV, do you? shouldn't that automatically make your english epic?
2011-09-28T22:21:49 < Steffanx> No, most movies have subtitles
2011-09-28T22:21:54 < Steffanx> Except those series for kids
2011-09-28T22:22:28 < dekar__> watch more TV then :D
2011-09-28T22:23:06 < Steffanx> I watch series without subs :)
2011-09-28T22:23:19 < Steffanx> I understand it pretty well, but..
2011-09-28T22:25:00 < dekar__> You're good to go then :)
2011-09-28T22:29:01 < Steffanx> At least we, the dutch, are the tallest people in the world :)
2011-09-28T22:30:12 < dekar__> no waii
2011-09-28T22:30:16 < dekar__> how tall are you?
2011-09-28T22:30:26 < dekar__> I'm 1,89 myself :)
2011-09-28T22:30:26 < Steffanx> I've no idea :P
2011-09-28T22:30:39 < Steffanx> The average here seams to be 1,85
2011-09-28T22:30:58 < dekar__> ha, I am above your average :D
2011-09-28T22:31:10 < Steffanx> Yay
2011-09-28T22:55:47 < dekar__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K08etLXesE
2011-09-28T22:56:13 < Steffanx> Again?
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2011-09-28T23:21:14 < ziph> I guess you haven't been to Australia, I'm 198.
2011-09-28T23:23:05 < Steffanx> Yes, but the avarage is 1,85 here :)
2011-09-28T23:24:26 < ziph> But can you catch, kill, gut and smoke a Kangaroo bare handed?
2011-09-28T23:25:38 < Steffanx> No, but… that's like USELESS
2011-09-28T23:26:16 < ziph> The women here love smoked kangaroo.
2011-09-28T23:27:49 < ziph> What are you all eating that is making you 185?
2011-09-28T23:28:10 < Steffanx> No kangaroo :P
2011-09-28T23:41:24 <+izua> good evening
2011-09-28T23:41:48 < dekar__> Steffanx, wrong link lol
2011-09-28T23:41:59 < dekar__> that one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ
2011-09-28T23:42:05 <+izua> smoked kangaroo? o_O
2011-09-28T23:42:45 < dekar__> I want kangaroo as well!
2011-09-28T23:43:00 <+izua> i want a kangaroo in a kangaroo
2011-09-28T23:43:05 < dekar__> and all those epic birds you have in aus
2011-09-28T23:43:08 <+izua> <xzibit.jpg>
2011-09-28T23:43:11 <+izua> fuck them
2011-09-28T23:43:16 <+izua> burn them all
2011-09-28T23:43:43 < dekar__> izua, I'd rather have cool colorful aus birds than doves :/
2011-09-28T23:44:06 <+izua> yes but they make annoying sounds
2011-09-28T23:45:33 < dekar__> haha, didn't you have some parakeets at your place?
2011-09-28T23:45:52 <+izua> :pokerface:
2011-09-28T23:46:24 <+izua> they won't be around for long though
2011-09-28T23:46:32 <+izua> gonna move out in november or so.
2011-09-28T23:46:36 < dekar__> just "throw them on the ground" (reference at the youtube link)
2011-09-28T23:46:59 <+izua> no cuz they can fly etc
2011-09-28T23:47:11 < dekar__> so how would that help them?
2011-09-28T23:47:20 <+izua> MY DAD"S NOT A PHONE
2011-09-28T23:47:25 <+izua> cuz they wouldn't reach the ground
2011-09-28T23:47:33 <+izua> and they would continue on living and being annoying
2011-09-28T23:47:47 < dekar__> they would die for sure :)
2011-09-28T23:47:56 < dekar__> believe me...
2011-09-28T23:48:07 <+izua> oh lol, you tried that before?
2011-09-28T23:48:16 < dekar__> XD
2011-09-28T23:49:05 <+izua> so anyone
2011-09-28T23:49:10 <+izua> anyway <- wtf
2011-09-28T23:49:11 <+izua> sup
2011-09-28T23:49:14 <+izua> haven't been around in a while
2011-09-28T23:49:27 <+izua> have you been trolling all the macfags
2011-09-28T23:49:33 <+izua> and fight against windows that it crashes
2011-09-28T23:49:38 <+izua> and against linux that it's complicated
2011-09-28T23:52:59 < dekar__> izua, just use your birds how they're supposed to be used: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUNKdKdSHgE
2011-09-28T23:53:32 <+izua> that goth chick is hot >.>
2011-09-28T23:53:48 <+izua> GIVE IT TO ME LOLOLO DON'T EAT THE PISTACHIO
2011-09-28T23:53:53 < dekar__> agree :D
2011-09-28T23:54:27 <+izua> so hm
2011-09-28T23:54:35 <+izua> oh wait this is a public channel
2011-09-28T23:54:37 <+izua> maybe i should /q
2011-09-28T23:55:00 < dekar__> what's the matter?
--- Day changed Thu Sep 29 2011
2011-09-29T00:04:49 <+izua> ah
2011-09-29T00:04:54 <+izua> wanted to ask you some stuff
2011-09-29T00:05:06 <+izua> life-ing/etc xD
2011-09-29T01:12:47 < Steffanx> lol izua
2011-09-29T01:12:51 < Steffanx> life-ing...
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2011-09-29T13:39:31 < Steffanx> dekar_DON'T get a mac :)
2011-09-29T14:00:19 < dekar_> Steffanx, why?
2011-09-29T14:03:03 < Steffanx> OS X sucks :P
2011-09-29T14:03:15 < dekar_> lion _is_ weird imo
2011-09-29T14:03:24 < dekar_> liked snow leopard better
2011-09-29T14:03:39 < Steffanx> I got all kind of annoying sh*t the last few weeks
2011-09-29T14:03:48 < Steffanx> Could be a hw problem though
2011-09-29T14:03:48 < dekar_> what kind of?
2011-09-29T14:04:16 < Steffanx> 30 min ago for example.. Finder, Chrome and more apps crashed with a segmentation fault
2011-09-29T14:04:36 < dekar_> sounds like bad memory
2011-09-29T14:04:39 < Steffanx> My keyboard was only functional in the dashboard
2011-09-29T14:04:44 < dekar_> hm
2011-09-29T14:04:58 < Steffanx> Mous worked, but i couldn't do anything useful with it
2011-09-29T14:05:01 < Steffanx> *mouse
2011-09-29T14:05:34 < Steffanx> I think i'll do a mem test tomorrow :)
2011-09-29T14:05:53 < dekar_> I had OSX freeze up once where just ssh worked
2011-09-29T14:06:21 < Steffanx> And i've some issues with the login screen + second screen
2011-09-29T14:06:48 < Steffanx> Sometimes the login doesn't work.. the mouse is functional, but nothing else is
2011-09-29T14:06:49 < dekar_> linux has various ways to handle something like that, like framebuffer terminals and "reboot even if system utterly broken" (magic sysrequest key)
2011-09-29T14:07:05 < Steffanx> Have to unplug the second screen and put it back to get it functional :S
2011-09-29T14:07:22 < dekar_> but I don't think you can shut OSX properly down once it froze up
2011-09-29T14:07:37 < Steffanx> Not that i know of
2011-09-29T14:07:49 < Steffanx> Sometimes that doesn't work with linux either
2011-09-29T14:08:00 < dekar_> agree, at least you can try though
2011-09-29T14:08:06 < dekar_> I mean ssh still worked
2011-09-29T14:08:13 < dekar_> I could ssh into that macbook
2011-09-29T14:08:24 < dekar_> and shut it down
2011-09-29T14:08:32 < Steffanx> I mean.. i can make linux and os x non-functional with minicom and a ft232rl :P
2011-09-29T14:08:47 < dekar_> -.-
2011-09-29T14:09:01 < jpa-> my ubuntu has started giving black screen sometimes after standby
2011-09-29T14:09:03 < dekar_> how so?
2011-09-29T14:09:12 < jpa-> have to try sysrq-g next time it happens :)
2011-09-29T14:09:46 < Steffanx> Just connect to it, send some data, disconnect it without disconnecting with minicom
2011-09-29T14:09:53 < Steffanx> Do that a few times and it'll crash, at least it does here
2011-09-29T14:09:58 < dekar_> I am back on my old debian system atm - at least it is rock solid
2011-09-29T14:10:12 < Steffanx> I was able to do it with ubuntu, open suse and os x
2011-09-29T14:10:24 < Steffanx> It's harder with os x though
2011-09-29T14:10:28 < dekar_> never have any problems, the old battery has only 60% capacity -> still I get like 2h on that laptop
2011-09-29T14:10:33 < jpa-> Steffanx: hmm, i do that a lot though with cutecom.. it used to start consuming 100% cpu but now it is fixed for me :D
2011-09-29T14:11:14 < Steffanx> With ubuntu and open suse it sort of locked EVERYTHING
2011-09-29T14:11:15 < dekar_> that qt thing?
2011-09-29T14:11:27 < dekar_> was annoying when I used it
2011-09-29T14:11:46 < Steffanx> Incl. the music you play.. that sounds like a scratch of a CD :)
2011-09-29T14:11:49 < jpa-> it is good for some things, bad for others
2011-09-29T14:11:57 < jpa-> bad for interactive terminal, good for hex dump :)
2011-09-29T14:11:59 < dekar_> Steffanx, I can't handle those new distributions, they all use like apparmor and selinux
2011-09-29T14:12:39 < dekar_> I tried to start a selfcompiled Xorg while helping some co workers to set up some embedded system and apparmor killed it
2011-09-29T14:12:47 < Steffanx> Anyway, time to quit IRC.. i have to finish my presentation for tomorrow
2011-09-29T14:12:58 < Steffanx> Otherwise i'll get an insufficient
2011-09-29T14:13:21 < dekar_> when I tried to quit app armor I found out the startscripts (/etc/init.d/...) aren't working with their upstart system
2011-09-29T14:13:30 < dekar_> k, cya
2011-09-29T14:13:42 < Steffanx> And an insufficient = 6 months of hard work => trash bin
2011-09-29T14:13:57 < dekar_> go work then :)
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2011-09-29T14:14:24 <+izua> lol
2011-09-29T14:14:26 <+izua> that was quick
2011-09-29T14:14:51 <+izua> motivation win
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2011-09-29T14:17:02 < jpa-> izua: so did dekar solve your life-ing problems?
2011-09-29T14:48:21 <+izua> i was more into asking him how he's been life-ing lately
2011-09-29T14:50:00 <+izua> right now, my problems are trying to figure out a sane (ie, manageable and not too hard on the cpu) hierarhical menu system for lcds, etc
2011-09-29T14:50:09 <+izua> and yes, there seem to be several ._.
2011-09-29T15:05:25 < ziph> izua: Got touch screen? :)
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2011-09-29T23:41:53 < dekar> izua, flexOptix is finally getting an EE guy :D
2011-09-29T23:42:53 < dekar> he was like "why are you buying those altera boards, let's just make our own one!"
2011-09-29T23:44:00 < dekar> I really like him so far
2011-09-29T23:44:22 < dekar> first thing he did was like telling my boss he wants an altium license XD
2011-09-29T23:53:48 <+izua> hehehe XD
2011-09-29T23:53:52 <+izua> neat
2011-09-29T23:53:55 <+izua> where's he from?
--- Day changed Fri Sep 30 2011
2011-09-30T00:04:03 < dekar> izua, http://www.pandacom.de/index.php?id=3&L=1
2011-09-30T00:07:42 < dekar> he has designed 10G stuff before
2011-09-30T00:15:38 <+izua> oh.
2011-09-30T00:15:39 <+izua> neat.
2011-09-30T00:16:40 < dekar> izua, he was actually designing switches and 10G networking cards
2011-09-30T00:18:09 <+izua> o_O
2011-09-30T00:18:14 <+izua> hah
2011-09-30T00:18:24 <+izua> and he's there on a project basis?
2011-09-30T00:18:27 <+izua> or he actually got a job?
2011-09-30T00:34:36 < dekar> izua, we hired him
2011-09-30T00:34:52 < dekar> he'll start in january
2011-09-30T00:35:20 < dekar> but he said he'll do my schematics, layout and routing now :)
2011-09-30T00:38:08 < dekar> my teensy++ finally arrived :)
2011-09-30T00:38:21 < dekar> and some hsmc to sma card
2011-09-30T00:53:23 <+izua> neasst
2011-09-30T00:53:24 <+izua> neat
2011-09-30T00:53:28 < Steffanx> Why reinvent the wheel dekar ?
2011-09-30T00:53:38 <+izua> did you bust a move on that chick
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2011-09-30T00:57:35 < dekar> izua, still dunno which chick you mean
2011-09-30T00:58:01 < Steffanx> His sister
2011-09-30T00:58:03 < dekar> Steffanx, what wheel?
2011-09-30T00:58:12 < Steffanx> Altera board wheel
2011-09-30T00:58:15 < dekar> oh the girl on that webcam site - I remember :D
2011-09-30T00:58:56 < dekar> Steffanx, he told me he does it cheaper and would use a far more powerful FPGA
2011-09-30T00:59:06 < dekar> he also told me to buy the full version of quartus
2011-09-30T00:59:20 < Steffanx> Why?
2011-09-30T01:00:55 < dekar> several things, being able to use stratix fpga, multithreading, being able to compile only parts and keep the rest unchanged, being able to mix vhdl and verilog and some other things I forgot
2011-09-30T01:01:01 < dekar> multithreading I think
2011-09-30T01:01:19 < dekar> he used to work with beefy workstations I think
2011-09-30T01:01:36 < Steffanx> Who needs Stratix, that's the TOP-END of fpga's isn't it?
2011-09-30T01:01:37 < dekar> like 8 cores 16gb ram etc
2011-09-30T01:02:04 < dekar> idk, he was like "get 10G transceivers - so much easier than bothering with XAUI!" :D
2011-09-30T01:02:31 < Steffanx> :)
2011-09-30T01:03:07 < Steffanx> I wonder if it's easier to write that part yourself, but he'll know :P
2011-09-30T01:03:33 < dekar> what part?
2011-09-30T01:04:09 < Steffanx> The part that is handled by the phy or whatever it's called
2011-09-30T01:04:32 < dekar> it doesn't handle much
2011-09-30T01:04:42 < dekar> it only does like clock recovery and xaui conversion
2011-09-30T01:04:53 < dekar> and yeah PHY is right
2011-09-30T01:04:54 < Steffanx> Yeah, you want to write that yourself in vhdl?
2011-09-30T01:05:01 < dekar> Steffanx, you don't have to
2011-09-30T01:05:37 < dekar> Steffanx, when I tried Quartus it asked me some questions about XAUI and generated default code - took like 2h
2011-09-30T01:05:51 < dekar> so there is some kind of "lib" for that
2011-09-30T01:06:02 < dekar> XAUI has clock recovery as well
2011-09-30T01:06:08 < dekar> but that's done by the software
2011-09-30T01:06:32 < dekar> all you have to do is feed some 64bit parallel thing with data
2011-09-30T01:06:36 < dekar> iirc
2011-09-30T01:06:40 < Steffanx> You lost me :)
2011-09-30T01:06:53 < Steffanx> You said he said "get 10G transceivers - so much easier than bothering with XAUI!"
2011-09-30T01:07:00 < dekar> the FPGA design software has some library to use the transceivers
2011-09-30T01:07:07 < Steffanx> So, you skip the part with the XUAI interface?
2011-09-30T01:07:13 < dekar> yeah
2011-09-30T01:07:23 < dekar> he doesn't seem to like to use an external PHY
2011-09-30T01:07:24 < dekar> idk
2011-09-30T01:09:40 < Steffanx> He sounds like a guy who doesn't care about a pull-up/down :P
2011-09-30T01:09:52 < dekar> I kinda got his point, he was like "why are you paying $1200 when I can just make you a board for a $1000 chip being ten times better!"
2011-09-30T01:09:55 <+izua> touche
2011-09-30T01:10:32 < Steffanx> With a chip 10 times more expensive :)
2011-09-30T01:10:49 < dekar> but the board is $1200 anyway
2011-09-30T01:11:00 < Steffanx> You only need a few don't you?
2011-09-30T01:11:03 < dekar> one
2011-09-30T01:11:29 < Steffanx> One test board, and one 'real' board?
2011-09-30T01:11:41 < dekar> idk, just one eval board for now
2011-09-30T01:11:50 < dekar> maybe more, once I have evaluated :D
2011-09-30T01:12:16 < dekar> but I really like him, he seems competent
2011-09-30T01:12:57 < dekar> he also told me using a voltage divider for the ADC would be no big deal at all
2011-09-30T01:13:13 < dekar> then he explained me a voltage divider was just two resistors
2011-09-30T01:13:37 < dekar> the old EE guy working on the schematics for the last 6 months seems to think it is a big deal
2011-09-30T01:13:41 < Steffanx> It depends on the input impedance of the ADC if you can do that afaik
2011-09-30T01:14:02 < dekar> impedance? I wanna measure 5V usb voltage using my stm32 :D
2011-09-30T01:14:14 < Steffanx> Impedance yes :P
2011-09-30T01:14:26 < dekar> how would impedance matter?
2011-09-30T01:14:45 < dekar> it's not like usb voltage has uber high frequency - unless you plug and unplug at uber high speed
2011-09-30T01:14:59 < Steffanx> I know
2011-09-30T01:15:05 < dekar> but usb is only rated for like a few thousand re-plugs
2011-09-30T01:15:16 < dekar> so you get worse problems than impedance doing that
2011-09-30T01:15:17 < dekar> :D
2011-09-30T01:15:41 <+izua> techincally the power bars should have an impedance approaching 0 or so :P
2011-09-30T01:16:02 <+izua> and the adcs have something in the 10e6-10e9 range (or probably better :P)
2011-09-30T01:16:09 < dekar> how can there be impedance if there aren't any waves anyway?
2011-09-30T01:16:20 <+izua> uh
2011-09-30T01:16:33 <+izua> impedance is like complex resistance
2011-09-30T01:17:13 <+izua> but yeah, measuring usb voltage with the adc should be absolutely no issue
2011-09-30T01:17:17 <+izua> but
2011-09-30T01:17:18 < dekar> the german word for impedance is "wellenwiderstand" which contains "welle" which means wave - you need electromagnetic waves for impedance to matter
2011-09-30T01:17:38 <+izua> that means you shouldn't power the ref of your adc from usb.
2011-09-30T01:17:39 < dekar> the german word means wave-resistance
2011-09-30T01:17:52 <+izua> it's probably AC/sine resistance :)
2011-09-30T01:18:18 <+izua> since impedance basically deals with how a component has like 0 resistance for a frequency, and infinite resistance at a different one
2011-09-30T01:19:10 < dekar> izua, the STM32 is using 3,3v dummy :)
2011-09-30T01:19:13 <+izua> but (at least here) it's perfectly fine to say impedance when talking about a plain resistance
2011-09-30T01:19:34 <+izua> yeah
2011-09-30T01:19:35 < dekar> usb is 5v
2011-09-30T01:19:37 < Steffanx> Doesn't the impedance of an ADC change with the sample rate?
2011-09-30T01:19:48 <+izua> but if power fluctuates, both the signal and the reference will fluctuate
2011-09-30T01:19:55 < dekar> so I'll have a reference of 3,3v
2011-09-30T01:20:08 <+izua> ah anyway
2011-09-30T01:20:14 <+izua> probably not that important either
2011-09-30T01:20:14 < dekar> izua, why would it fluctuate? the stm32 has a linear voltage regulator
2011-09-30T01:20:21 <+izua> dunno
2011-09-30T01:20:26 <+izua> isn't that what you want to measure?
2011-09-30T01:20:49 < dekar> I want to see how low the usb voltage drops
2011-09-30T01:21:20 < dekar> just to make some window pop up telling the user to buy proper hardware
2011-09-30T01:21:24 <+izua> well a LDO can get 3v3 with just 1v or so
2011-09-30T01:21:39 <+izua> antifeature ftw, lol
2011-09-30T01:21:46 < dekar> :D
2011-09-30T01:21:48 <+izua> make it not work
2011-09-30T01:21:52 < dekar> totally
2011-09-30T01:21:58 <+izua> and open a link to your personalised adapter
2011-09-30T01:22:03 <+izua> and make ALL ADAPTERS FAIL
2011-09-30T01:22:03 < dekar> LD0 is some step-up?
2011-09-30T01:22:10 <+izua> with some sort of secret protocol for powering it up
2011-09-30T01:22:14 < dekar> :D
2011-09-30T01:22:16 <+izua> low drop-out regulator
2011-09-30T01:22:43 <+izua> instead of 7805 (for 5v) which needs 8-9v to get 5v right, a LDO can work with at least 6v
2011-09-30T01:22:51 < dekar> oh - I have some only demanding like 0,5v
2011-09-30T01:23:06 < dekar> I think
2011-09-30T01:23:06 <+izua> or yeah, even better :D
2011-09-30T01:23:22 < dekar> LD0 sounds bad :D
2011-09-30T01:23:40 <+izua> h4x0r much
2011-09-30T01:23:56 < dekar> he'll also do the shunt thing to measure current
2011-09-30T01:23:56 < Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20110930-002345.png afaik you have to take care of that
2011-09-30T01:24:22 <+izua> uh that's not bad
2011-09-30T01:24:26 <+izua> but it needs a big resistor etc
2011-09-30T01:24:51 < dekar> he told me not to worry about it
2011-09-30T01:25:01 <+izua> if you use a low value one, like 0.1 ohm, you'll need a high precision opamp and adc
2011-09-30T01:25:01 < dekar> it would drop less than 0.02v
2011-09-30T01:25:20 <+izua> if you use a high value, like 1 or 2 ohms, it will dissipate a lot of heat, so it will need to be big :D
2011-09-30T01:25:27 <+izua> (plus, it will also drop some voltage)
2011-09-30T01:25:58 < dekar> Steffanx, I don't get it - why would I use 12mhz anyway?
2011-09-30T01:26:04 < Steffanx> idk :P
2011-09-30T01:26:18 < dekar> I'll read like once every 5s
2011-09-30T01:26:44 <+izua> Steffanx: how's the anemometer coming up
2011-09-30T01:26:51 <+izua> i'm curious what was with the phase shift
2011-09-30T01:26:54 < Steffanx> My presentation is … today
2011-09-30T01:26:57 < Steffanx> As in 13 hours from now
2011-09-30T01:27:05 < Steffanx> I still don't know izua
2011-09-30T01:27:15 < dekar> -.-
2011-09-30T01:27:16 < Steffanx> It seemed to be a sw issue though
2011-09-30T01:27:35 < Steffanx> Compiked with -O3 the phase isn't there
2011-09-30T01:27:38 < Steffanx> *compiled
2011-09-30T01:27:44 <+izua> lol
2011-09-30T01:28:07 <+izua> i hear -O stands for trOllface
2011-09-30T01:28:07 < dekar> do you know any 10G ADC?
2011-09-30T01:28:16 < Steffanx> TI :)
2011-09-30T01:28:20 <+izua> ^
2011-09-30T01:28:25 < Steffanx> I did find another mistake thanks to that
2011-09-30T01:28:29 <+izua> they make some neat ones ending in high-end scopes
2011-09-30T01:28:46 < dekar> I feel like building a scope once I got my FPGA :D
2011-09-30T01:28:50 < Steffanx> One of the resistors which took care of the ring time wasn't soldered very well
2011-09-30T01:28:54 <+izua> bah
2011-09-30T01:28:55 < dekar> I'll be a PCI-E scope
2011-09-30T01:28:58 <+izua> scopes are horrible to build
2011-09-30T01:29:01 <+izua> decent scopes
2011-09-30T01:29:17 < Steffanx> Decent scopes are > 15k
2011-09-30T01:29:19 <+izua> you need the whole calibration deal
2011-09-30T01:29:31 < dekar> calibration O.o
2011-09-30T01:29:39 <+izua> and there are a lot of stuff i don't even understand about notfucking up the input signal
2011-09-30T01:29:43 < dekar> the FPGA has like transceivers
2011-09-30T01:29:52 < Steffanx> 10G is no bullshit :)
2011-09-30T01:30:01 < dekar> I have this HF guy now - he'll do probes etc :D
2011-09-30T01:30:08 <+izua> as far as i understood, it's not simply connecting your signal to an opamp and then shoving it to the ADC, etc xD
2011-09-30T01:30:21 <+izua> it's not the probes dude
2011-09-30T01:30:22 < dekar> I'll make sure to ask him
2011-09-30T01:30:29 < Steffanx> transmission lines ftw
2011-09-30T01:30:29 <+izua> he probably knows better
2011-09-30T01:30:33 <+izua> i suck at analog design
2011-09-30T01:30:43 < Steffanx> Reflection ftw too :)
2011-09-30T01:30:51 < dekar> 10G scope would be awesome, I could like scope my CPU :D
2011-09-30T01:31:03 < dekar> and scope wifi
2011-09-30T01:31:05 < Steffanx> You can get INTO your cpu?
2011-09-30T01:31:07 < dekar> O.o
2011-09-30T01:31:11 <+izua> o.O
2011-09-30T01:31:27 <+izua> you'll need some epic frequency filters to do any of that
2011-09-30T01:31:54 < dekar> izua, just hook it up to the antenna
2011-09-30T01:31:59 <+izua> lol
2011-09-30T01:32:09 <+izua> well the antenna is the first filter
2011-09-30T01:32:10 < Steffanx> dekar have a nice read about 'transmission lines'
2011-09-30T01:32:17 < Steffanx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line :)
2011-09-30T01:32:29 <+izua> but you still need to heterodyne it and do intermediate stage filtering
2011-09-30T01:32:34 < dekar> I actually had a lecture about wireless stuff a while ago - wifi-N is so epic
2011-09-30T01:32:37 <+izua> if you want actual signals, not just noise
2011-09-30T01:32:50 < dekar> they can do like directional RF without using directional antennae
2011-09-30T01:33:04 <+izua> not to mention, since wifi uses the spread-spectrum technique you'll also need to mix it with the bit pattern
2011-09-30T01:33:10 < dekar> they use precise timing so the waves overlap when they reach the receiver
2011-09-30T01:33:32 < Steffanx> Have a good night
2011-09-30T01:33:44 <+izua> interesting
2011-09-30T01:33:47 <+izua> night Steffanx
2011-09-30T01:33:50 < dekar> cya
2011-09-30T01:34:17 < dekar> izua, yeah totally, makes them boost the signal strength times three
2011-09-30T01:34:37 <+izua> but i'm still not sure why an antenna is still bad
2011-09-30T01:35:09 <+izua> well.. i suppose calibration/tuning/matching could be much easier this way
2011-09-30T01:36:39 < dekar> that would be so much data to store once you scope at 2.4ghz
2011-09-30T01:36:55 < dekar> but pci-e should be able to handle it
2011-09-30T01:37:33 <+izua> it's not
2011-09-30T01:37:43 <+izua> i mean, it's not 'much more'
2011-09-30T01:37:54 <+izua> a lot of it is modulated around that frequency in a manner
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2011-09-30T01:38:40 < dekar> izua, you mean you could compress it
2011-09-30T01:39:09 < dekar> sampling at 2,4ghz would be 2,4gbit/s times resolution
2011-09-30T01:39:33 < dekar> you'd probably sample at 16bit or something like that
2011-09-30T01:39:33 <+izua> no, that's what i'm saying
2011-09-30T01:39:44 <+izua> you don't get 2.4gbit/s of data
2011-09-30T01:39:56 <+izua> that's just the carrier frequency
2011-09-30T01:40:15 < dekar> izua, when did I say I planned on stripping the carrier?
2011-09-30T01:40:23 <+izua> oh
2011-09-30T01:40:33 < dekar> I mean probing wifi at 2,4ghz
2011-09-30T01:40:33 <+izua> you mean you want a board to actually see raw wifi ?
2011-09-30T01:40:40 < dekar> XD
2011-09-30T01:41:10 < dekar> would be so awesome
2011-09-30T01:41:15 <+izua> huh
2011-09-30T01:41:23 <+izua> i don't really see a reason to do that but wth
2011-09-30T01:41:26 <+izua> sure.. xD
2011-09-30T01:42:00 < dekar> izua, it takes less hardware that way
2011-09-30T01:42:10 < dekar> like it could sample 5ghz wifi as well
2011-09-30T01:44:30 <+izua> lol
2011-09-30T01:44:51 <+izua> analog stuff doesn't really work that way dude
2011-09-30T01:45:00 < dekar> if you don't think that is cool, how about probing satellite TV, GPS and so on? :D
2011-09-30T01:45:08 <+izua> you need to be precisely tuned to that frequency
2011-09-30T01:45:17 < dekar> why would I do that?
2011-09-30T01:45:21 <+izua> and you need a few times the sample rate of your signal
2011-09-30T01:45:37 < dekar> I'll do a 28ghz scope then :D
2011-09-30T01:45:45 <+izua> to sample 5 GHz, directly, you'd probably need 5-10x times the sample rate
2011-09-30T01:46:07 <+izua> because you want to filter everything else out
2011-09-30T01:46:46 <+izua> uh, a lot of those services have their specs in the public domain :)
2011-09-30T01:47:02 <+izua> it's neat seeing how they work.. i guess if i'd havethat kind of money, i'd do odd stuff too :P
2011-09-30T01:49:15 < dekar> ya, I'm just kidding anyway - no time for that :D
2011-09-30T01:49:24 < dekar> first I gotta build my flexBERT
2011-09-30T01:49:30 < dekar> and support the flexBox 2.0
2011-09-30T01:50:00 <+izua> flexBert?
2011-09-30T01:50:36 < dekar> one of my co-workers has an epic project - his codename was something containing "anal"
2011-09-30T01:50:49 < BrainDamage> anal .. flex
2011-09-30T01:50:56 < BrainDamage> I see where you're going
2011-09-30T01:51:07 < dekar> he was like "what's so funny, 'anal' for analyzer"
2011-09-30T01:51:14 < dekar> XD
2011-09-30T01:51:17 <+izua> lol
2011-09-30T01:51:31 < dekar> flexB.E.R.T.
2011-09-30T01:51:37 < dekar> my new project man
2011-09-30T01:51:48 < dekar> Bit Error Rate Test
2011-09-30T01:51:52 < dekar> the FPGA thing
2011-09-30T02:12:26 <+izua> you ever seen stargate?
2011-09-30T02:12:29 <+izua> they had an epic reply
2011-09-30T02:12:33 <+izua> when people started naming things
2011-09-30T02:12:36 <+izua> it went something like
2011-09-30T02:12:40 <+izua> "you should stop namingthings"
2011-09-30T02:12:50 <+izua> "i thought we'd agreed no one would name stuff"
2011-09-30T02:12:51 <+izua> etc xD
2011-09-30T02:30:05 < dekar> izua, I have watched several seasons of stargate
2011-09-30T02:30:19 < dekar> don't remember that though
2011-09-30T02:30:33 < dekar> probably lost in translation
2011-09-30T02:30:43 < dekar> watched dubs back then
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2011-09-30T13:21:27 < erik-k> Bloody hell.
2011-09-30T13:22:25 < erik-k> http://pastebin.com/rBJrktwZ
2011-09-30T13:23:36 < erik-k> I did exactly what the ****ing manual says to do but it won't transmit more than 1 character at a time (when it's explicitly called as a means of restarting the transmission if idle when I call the "send a string" function)
2011-09-30T13:24:47 < erik-k> USART2->CR1 |= USART_CR1_TXEIE | USART_CR1_RXNEIE; is also called, and I've removed the #pragma statements that by default alias every interrupt to DefaultHandler
2011-09-30T13:37:23 < erik-k> Am I going to have this much fun trying to use the ADC, and set up PWM?
2011-09-30T13:38:44 <+izua> uh
2011-09-30T13:38:55 <+izua> are you using the stock libs from st?
2011-09-30T13:39:01 <+izua> they have an issue when checking flags
2011-09-30T13:39:10 <+izua> just check the bit in its specific register
2011-09-30T13:39:27 < erik-k> ...
2011-09-30T13:39:58 < erik-k> The only part of the stock libs I use is the stm32f10x.h header and a call to SystemInit() which I intend to trace/see what I need/remove
2011-09-30T13:40:51 <+izua> oh wait
2011-09-30T13:40:53 <+izua> reading the code now
2011-09-30T13:41:17 <+izua> ah, so you want to pull out the next character and send it (from your buffer) when your current one is done sending
2011-09-30T13:41:25 < erik-k> Yep
2011-09-30T13:42:13 < erik-k> Kinda wish the hardware FIFOs were more than 1 frame, but c'est la vie
2011-09-30T13:42:56 <+izua> you can do some neat buffering with the dma, either as a linear buffer or as a ring
2011-09-30T13:43:24 < Laurenceb> ive got ring buffering on my github
2011-09-30T13:43:26 < Thorn> erik-k: are you clearing the interrupt bits?
2011-09-30T13:43:29 < Laurenceb> works well for gps
2011-09-30T13:43:29 < erik-k> (in this age, they couldn't find space for a 9x8 or 9x16 FIFO? really?)
2011-09-30T13:44:04 < erik-k> Thorn: every time it finds TXE set, it puts in the next byte (if available) and then clears it.
2011-09-30T13:44:34 < Thorn> USART_IT_TC, USART_IT_RXNE?
2011-09-30T13:45:07 < Laurenceb> you need to disable txe interrupt on tx buffer empty
2011-09-30T13:45:26 < Thorn> your problem is you're getting stuck in the interrupt?
2011-09-30T13:45:28 < erik-k> Supposedly TC is cleared by reading SR and writing DR
2011-09-30T13:45:47 < erik-k> Thorn: If only! It's more as if the damned interrupt doesn't exist
2011-09-30T13:46:03 <+izua> uh
2011-09-30T13:46:08 <+izua> isn't DR the data register? o_O
2011-09-30T13:46:27 < erik-k> izua: RM0008, page 788.
2011-09-30T13:46:46 <+izua> oh nvm
2011-09-30T13:46:49 <+izua> seen it where it's preloaded
2011-09-30T13:46:52  * izua is tired
2011-09-30T13:46:58 <+izua> yeah, looks fine ._.
2011-09-30T13:47:12 <+izua> yep, RM0008
2011-09-30T13:47:13 < Thorn> erik-k: are you sure the interrupt is fired at all? like turn a led in the handler or something
2011-09-30T13:47:18  * izua pets dead tree edition
2011-09-30T13:47:28 < erik-k> izua: how long'd _that_ take to print?
2011-09-30T13:47:46 < erik-k> Thorn: That was my next step...
2011-09-30T13:47:52 <+izua> no idea, sent it over to someone to be printed ._.
2011-09-30T13:47:55 < erik-k> But how can it possibly _not_ be?
2011-09-30T13:48:04 <+izua> sei()
2011-09-30T13:48:04 <+izua> lol.
2011-09-30T13:48:44 < erik-k> I know the USART is on (since it _does_ send bytes when I manually call the handler function), and I know the TXEIE bit is set, which is supposedly the only thing necessary to generate the interrupt
2011-09-30T13:48:48 <+izua> in all seriousness, maybe several interrupt masks need setting
2011-09-30T13:49:38 < Thorn> if that interrupt never fires then show us how you enable it and configure the nvic in general
2011-09-30T13:50:16 < erik-k> Thorn: I'm not saying it never fires, I'm saying it acts like it. Relevant code bits:
2011-09-30T13:50:29 < erik-k> // Enable the interrupts to drive the ring buffer "magically" without further user action
2011-09-30T13:50:31 < erik-k> USART2->CR1 |= USART_CR1_TXEIE | USART_CR1_RXNEIE;
2011-09-30T13:50:42 <+izua> do what thorn said earlier, make a led flash when it enters the isr
2011-09-30T13:50:52 <+izua> this way you know if it's either a misconfigured interrupt, or bad ISR code.
2011-09-30T13:51:48 <+izua> and you need to enable USART2 in the NVIC afaik
2011-09-30T13:52:05 <+izua> or its mask.. hmm..
2011-09-30T13:52:09 <+izua> can't remember right now ._.
2011-09-30T13:52:20 < Thorn> fpgas are easier to get started with than stm32
2011-09-30T13:52:36 <+izua> lol
2011-09-30T13:52:51 <+izua> what if you program for a softcore stm32
2011-09-30T13:53:19 < Thorn> there's only cortex-m1 but it costs $$$$$$$
2011-09-30T13:53:34 <+izua> yeah yeah, i know :(
2011-09-30T13:53:54 <+izua> some openhardware guys should really make an arm clone
2011-09-30T13:54:17 < Thorn> there was some, but ARM didn't like them and they disappeared
2011-09-30T13:54:22 < Thorn> *were
2011-09-30T13:54:54 < Thorn> together with authors
2011-09-30T13:55:23 < Laurenceb> lol
2011-09-30T13:55:46 < Laurenceb> i imagine arm would be pretty pissed at any clone
2011-09-30T13:56:02 < erik-k> manual has basically nothing to say in the interrupt section (~p190) except about external interrupts
2011-09-30T13:56:14 < Thorn> erik-k: NVIC
2011-09-30T13:56:29 <+izua> i'm pretty sure there is a mask
2011-09-30T13:56:36 < erik-k> 190, 10.1: "Nested vectored interrupt controller"
2011-09-30T13:57:01 < Laurenceb> oh
2011-09-30T13:57:08 < Laurenceb> you need to configure the nvic
2011-09-30T13:57:23 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/interrupts.c
2011-09-30T13:58:38  * erik-k does a cringing facial tic
2011-09-30T13:59:01 < erik-k> if I have to turn it on /there/ then what's the point of having the enable bits in the usart_cr????
2011-09-30T13:59:30 < erik-k> :sigh:
2011-09-30T13:59:58 < Thorn> you enable interrupt *generation* by the peripheral in usart_cr
2011-09-30T14:00:05 < Laurenceb> theres two sets of hardware
2011-09-30T14:00:12 < Thorn> and then enable interrupt servicing in the nvic
2011-09-30T14:00:16 < Laurenceb> it helps to think about how its designed
2011-09-30T14:00:19 < erik-k> I need to check the ISR table too... Geoff McRae's skeleton project assumes I've got an XL series device
2011-09-30T14:00:21 < Laurenceb> arm make the core and nvic
2011-09-30T14:00:33 < Laurenceb> then st stick their hardware on the amba busses
2011-09-30T14:00:46 < Laurenceb> and connect up to the nvic external lines
2011-09-30T14:01:07 < Laurenceb> so you need to configure the nvic, the periferal, and link the two together
2011-09-30T14:01:33 < erik-k> :sigh: never effing fails... since we've started to make progress, by definition /I/ get interrupted by it being 4am.
2011-09-30T14:02:01 < erik-k> no, I'm seeing this through. sorry clock.
2011-09-30T14:02:09 < Laurenceb> only ARM license fee depends on the number of external NVIC lines, so ST link some of them together
2011-09-30T14:02:18 < Laurenceb> which makes me ANGRY
2011-09-30T14:02:35 < Thorn> so NXP paid more?
2011-09-30T14:02:44 < Thorn> lol
2011-09-30T14:03:16 < erik-k> Step 1, check interrupt table vs manual
2011-09-30T14:03:19 <+izua> they should leak out the IP for an arm core
2011-09-30T14:03:23 <+izua> just for the lols
2011-09-30T14:03:45 <+izua> and everybody will be like - wth should we do with this
2011-09-30T14:03:59 < Thorn> someone in ##electronics probably has a fab in the basement
2011-09-30T14:04:00 < Laurenceb> its not too hard to clone
2011-09-30T14:04:07 < Laurenceb> fairly simple core
2011-09-30T14:04:13 < erik-k> izua: The amount of preparation needed to avoid being repeatedly violated in the nether regions by ARM's lawyers would probably make it not worth the lulz.
2011-09-30T14:04:17 < Laurenceb> one would hope its well optimised
2011-09-30T14:04:25 < erik-k> Thorn: hehe, azonenberg is working on it :)
2011-09-30T14:04:46 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Hardware/Schematics/Board.png
2011-09-30T14:04:51 < Laurenceb> its so sexy
2011-09-30T14:05:36 < Laurenceb> but i wish they made more stuff in lqfp48
2011-09-30T14:08:30 < Thorn> hopefully stm peripherals never leak out, that would be a huge embarassment judging by the number of bugs in them
2011-09-30T14:08:44 < Laurenceb> lmao
2011-09-30T14:16:57 < erik-k> Okay, the interrupt vector table is close enough, though USB and CAN I suspect are in for some surprises.
2011-09-30T14:18:17  * erik-k would find a leak of something like a Xeon or Athlon 2 or similar large cpu amusing... everything out there, yet every single place in the world that can actually use it probably already have it and do
2011-09-30T14:19:17 < Thorn> usb controllers are completely different between 103 and 105/107
2011-09-30T14:19:25 < erik-k> Thorn: Yeah
2011-09-30T14:20:04 < erik-k> But USART1 falls at 0x0D4 and USART2 is 0x0D8, so that's OK
2011-09-30T14:20:27  * erik-k rubs eyes
2011-09-30T14:32:02 < erik-k> Okay, so I need NVIC_ISER[1] |= NVIC_ISER_SETENA_22 ?
2011-09-30T14:38:58 < erik-k> The otherwise clear dox are suddenly somewhat less transparent than a mudslide.
2011-09-30T14:47:56 < erik-k> Okay, so on rm0008 p190/191, 'position' tells me which of the interrupt enable bits I want to set?
2011-09-30T14:54:40 < Thorn> well most people just use NVIC_* functions from the standard peripheral library. but nvic is documented in ARMv7-m ARM, B3.4
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2011-09-30T17:06:56 < dekar_> izua, concerning arm clone - I would just make it different, don't use the same opcodes etc
2011-09-30T17:07:10 < dekar_> make it similar enough so gcc can be ported easily
2011-09-30T17:07:24 < dekar_> but not identical
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2011-09-30T17:19:04 < Steffanx> Yay, last year project finished :)
2011-09-30T17:19:46 < Thorn> my lpc1768 board has arrived
2011-09-30T17:20:05 <+izua> Steffanx: how did it go
2011-09-30T17:20:32 < Steffanx> Could be better, a little nervous, but i got a 7 out of 10.. which is acceptable :)
2011-09-30T17:20:39 < Steffanx> The expected more from me, LOL
2011-09-30T17:20:42 < Steffanx> *they
2011-09-30T17:20:46 < Laurenceb> erik-k: dude, use the perif lib ffs
2011-09-30T17:21:44 < Steffanx> Only 100MHz Thorn
2011-09-30T17:21:50 < Steffanx> I want the new F4 :)
2011-09-30T17:23:53 < dekar_> Steffanx, izua did anyone find any license concerning the st lib?
2011-09-30T17:24:27 < dekar_> the stuff in their files is just a liability disclaimer
2011-09-30T17:24:31 < Steffanx> I didn't.. but i didn't look into it very well
2011-09-30T17:24:39 < Steffanx> My code is gpl anyway
2011-09-30T17:24:45 < dekar_> I wonder whether we're even allowed to use them, I'd guess we're not
2011-09-30T17:24:47 < Steffanx> I just didn't publish it.. oops
2011-09-30T17:24:57 < Steffanx> I guess you are..
2011-09-30T17:25:08 < dekar_> Steffanx, you aren't using the ST libs?
2011-09-30T17:25:08 < Laurenceb> or they wouldnt publish it
2011-09-30T17:25:17 < Steffanx> I am
2011-09-30T17:25:23 < Steffanx> *was
2011-09-30T17:25:24 < dekar_> so your code isn't GPL
2011-09-30T17:25:37 < Steffanx> I'm pretty sure it is, or a combination of gpl + theirs
2011-09-30T17:25:48 < dekar_> ST never granted you a license to GPL their lib
2011-09-30T17:26:01 < dekar_> you're not even allowed to distribute your binaries now
2011-09-30T17:26:02 < Steffanx> I don't care :P
2011-09-30T17:26:08 < dekar_> since they can't comply with the GPL
2011-09-30T17:26:16 < dekar_> use some BSD license instead
2011-09-30T17:26:19 < dekar_> GPL won't work
2011-09-30T17:26:23 < Steffanx> I can't
2011-09-30T17:26:28 < Steffanx> I used two libs with are gpl'd
2011-09-30T17:26:31 < dekar_> lol
2011-09-30T17:26:34 < Steffanx> *which
2011-09-30T17:26:41 < dekar_> I am pretty sure what you did isn't legal ;)
2011-09-30T17:26:45 < Steffanx> It was my last year project anyway, who cares :P
2011-09-30T17:26:49 < dekar_> yeah
2011-09-30T17:26:51 < dekar_> still
2011-09-30T17:27:00 < dekar_> you're more likely to void licenses than I am
2011-09-30T17:27:15 < Steffanx> No i'm not
2011-09-30T17:27:31 < Steffanx> I do care about licenses, but not when it comes to a non-commercial acadamic thing
2011-09-30T17:27:50 < Steffanx> I wouldn
2011-09-30T17:27:50 < dekar_> yeah w/e - give me a copy of your firmware then!
2011-09-30T17:28:18 < Steffanx> 't use GPL'd code in a closed app for example
2011-09-30T17:28:59 < dekar_> Laurenceb, "or they wouldn't publish it?" did you read their disclaimer? it goes like "this is just meant as an example for you to see how to use our hardware!"
2011-09-30T17:29:21 < dekar_> Steffanx, you still violated the GPL
2011-09-30T17:29:22 < Laurenceb> then delete the header
2011-09-30T17:29:27 < Laurenceb> XD
2011-09-30T17:29:27 <+izua> rofl
2011-09-30T17:29:39 < Steffanx> Come on, like you never voioated it :P
2011-09-30T17:29:42 < Laurenceb> seriously, i dont think they care
2011-09-30T17:29:55 < dekar_> Steffanx, I don't think I did violate the GPL
2011-09-30T17:29:58 < Steffanx> I'll give you a copy without the st libs :P
2011-09-30T17:30:12 < Steffanx> I'll strip every related code
2011-09-30T17:30:14 < dekar_> Steffanx, give me a working binary
2011-09-30T17:30:24 < Steffanx> The binary is uses anyway :)
2011-09-30T17:30:48 < Steffanx> You need MY hardware :)
2011-09-30T17:30:48 < dekar_> we should just as ST for some license
2011-09-30T17:31:03 < dekar_> who knows, they might even accept a BSD style license
2011-09-30T17:31:10 < dekar_> *ask
2011-09-30T17:31:28 < Steffanx> What's wrong with the license anyway?
2011-09-30T17:31:52 < Steffanx> They just state that they are not responsible for anything
2011-09-30T17:32:19 < Steffanx> And it's only for guidance only, that's true :)
2011-09-30T17:32:39 < dekar_> Steffanx, it isn't a license dumby :P
2011-09-30T17:32:48 < dekar_> just a disclaimer of liability
2011-09-30T17:33:04 < dekar_> without license you can't use it
2011-09-30T17:33:05 < dekar_> legally
2011-09-30T17:33:45 < Steffanx> I didn't even know it would violate gpl
2011-09-30T17:33:52 < Steffanx> I'll remove everthing :P
2011-09-30T17:33:55 < Steffanx> *every
2011-09-30T17:34:28 < dekar_> it violates the GPL since the GPL is viral - it forces you to give me a copy of the ST libs licensed under the GPL the moment you give me a copy of your binary
2011-09-30T17:34:45 < dekar_> you can't license the ST libs under GPL though, since you don't own them
2011-09-30T17:35:15 < Steffanx> I can get me a work around
2011-09-30T17:35:24 < dekar_> w/e
2011-09-30T17:35:25 < Steffanx> I can 'buy' a non-gpl version :P
2011-09-30T17:35:39 < dekar_> just be careful about the GPL next time
2011-09-30T17:35:56 < Steffanx> I don't really like GPL anyway
2011-09-30T17:36:16 < dekar_> me neither. well it depends on the situation
2011-09-30T17:36:41 < dekar_> I might once start a project where I _want_ to enforce the viral nature of the GPL
2011-09-30T17:36:54 < Steffanx> LGPL is acceptable as long as i distribute useful object files isn't it?
2011-09-30T17:36:57 < dekar_> but for most things I do it is just inconvenient
2011-09-30T17:37:03 < dekar_> yeah
2011-09-30T17:38:08 < dekar_> I usually prefer a BSD license style or just public domain - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
2011-09-30T17:38:29 < Steffanx> MIT?
2011-09-30T17:38:36 < dekar_> MIT/BSD
2011-09-30T17:38:44 < dekar_> they're all similar
2011-09-30T17:38:44 < Steffanx> :)
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2011-09-30T17:39:27 < Steffanx> I used LUFA too, which is MIT. I even mentioned the author in my presentation.. How fancy :)
2011-09-30T17:39:49 < dekar_> not too fancy, just 7/10 :P
2011-09-30T17:40:36 < Steffanx> That's good enough :P
2011-09-30T17:41:38 < Steffanx> I see Laurenceb violates GPL too
2011-09-30T17:41:55 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-09-30T17:42:00 < Laurenceb> openpilot is GPL
2011-09-30T17:42:02 < Steffanx> He uses combination of OpenPilot (which seems to be GPL'd) with the STM32 libs
2011-09-30T17:42:12 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-09-30T17:42:22 < Steffanx> dekar_ time for another rant :P
2011-09-30T17:42:34 < Laurenceb> PiOS can die in a fire
2011-09-30T17:42:57 < dekar_> Laurenceb, give me a copy of your binary please
2011-09-30T17:43:08 < Laurenceb> on github
2011-09-30T17:43:09 < Steffanx> :P
2011-09-30T17:43:12 < dekar_> link?
2011-09-30T17:43:35 < Steffanx> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl :)
2011-09-30T17:44:39 < dekar_> Laurenceb, give me a copy of those ST libs licensed under the GPL
2011-09-30T17:44:46 < Steffanx> :P
2011-09-30T17:45:03 < dekar_> our company just planned to release some flying stm32 based thing using your code
2011-09-30T17:45:05 < Steffanx> I wonder why stm did it.
2011-09-30T17:45:12 < Steffanx> I wonder about the license of the libs from Atmel
2011-09-30T17:45:18 < Steffanx> They are very similar
2011-09-30T17:45:25 < dekar_> so we need the GPL licensed ST lib now to give it to our customers
2011-09-30T17:45:28 < Steffanx> I wonder about so many things
2011-09-30T17:45:44 < Steffanx> I wonder about the things i don't wonder about
2011-09-30T17:46:08 < Steffanx> I wonder when i stop this "I wonder"  madness
2011-09-30T17:46:14 < Steffanx> (ignore me)
2011-09-30T17:46:17 < dekar_> Laurenceb, if you can't give me a license for those ST libs I see no alternative to suing you for all the planning and development costs we had so far
2011-09-30T17:46:25 < Laurenceb> ok ok
2011-09-30T17:46:42 < Laurenceb> i get the point
2011-09-30T17:46:49 < dekar_> yeah it sucks -.-"
2011-09-30T17:46:53 <+izua> dekar you should be a lawyer
2011-09-30T17:46:57 < Steffanx> dekar_ lives in Germany
2011-09-30T17:46:58 <+izua> on the foss side
2011-09-30T17:47:05 < Steffanx> They are license addicts :P
2011-09-30T17:47:05 <+izua> everybody is a lawyer in germany
2011-09-30T17:47:08 < dekar_> izua, people tell me to become a lawyer all the time
2011-09-30T17:47:08 <+izua> oh yeah, i forgot
2011-09-30T17:47:33 < Steffanx> Why to become one?
2011-09-30T17:47:44 <+izua> meh, i want to write some elegant code for this lcd menu parser i'm working on
2011-09-30T17:47:44 < Steffanx> 2nd study next to your current one?
2011-09-30T17:48:04 < dekar_> Steffanx, nah, law is fun to bash people, but too boring to study it imo
2011-09-30T17:48:06 <+izua> basically, a struct with a char pointer, int for type, and a union containing various data, depending on the type
2011-09-30T17:48:07 < Steffanx> LCD_Write_P(PSTR("Booh!"));
2011-09-30T17:48:23 <+izua> and i can't seem to nail the whole structs-in-a-union deal >.>
2011-09-30T17:50:12 < dekar_> Laurenceb, the moment I download your binary you implicitly grant me that binary under GPL. The GPL now gives me the right to demand the whole GPL licensed source - if you don't have the license to re-license the source and give me everything under the GPL then you got a problem
2011-09-30T17:50:28 < dekar_> you're legally bound
2011-09-30T17:50:51 < Steffanx> Have fun sueing him
2011-09-30T17:50:55 < dekar_> I wouldn't publically host a project like that, it could really become uber expensive if someone wants to sue you
2011-09-30T17:52:02 < dekar_> people over here get sued over their Blogs for not adding at least two different ways of contacting the author (like phone and mail, german law demands that)
2011-09-30T17:52:18 < dekar_> so there are lawyers who randomly sue blogs just for the money
2011-09-30T17:52:43 < Steffanx> YAy
2011-09-30T17:52:49 < Steffanx> I love germany, *not*
2011-09-30T17:53:17 < dekar_> just imagine court rules you to pay for the development of a GPL licensed 100% binary compatible lib...
2011-09-30T17:56:28 < dekar_> izua, don't use union -.-"
2011-09-30T17:57:03 < dekar_> the only legit use of unions I have seen was to make a simple alias for something in the microsoft DX11 SDK
2011-09-30T17:59:36 <+izua> suggest alternative?
2011-09-30T17:59:50 <+izua> i was thinking of using a uint8_t[8] and parsing that, but it's a huge pain.
2011-09-30T17:59:56 <+izua> plus, using unions would do exactly that.
2011-09-30T18:01:53 <+izua> well.. if i figure out how. forward declaration of structs and unions seems to be a bitch.
2011-09-30T18:02:05 <+izua> (which are entangled, and also spanned over several files ._.)
2011-09-30T18:02:07 < dekar_> I'd usually just use more memory instead, I don't think the memory you save by using unions is worth the possible confusion once someone else works on your code
2011-09-30T18:02:20 < Steffanx> "But if one of our customer needs such License  for his special usage for example to sub-license some parts of our software in his code , He can contact his local STMicroelectronics office to get a hard-copy and agreement with our sales groups. "
2011-09-30T18:02:29 < Steffanx> It seems you CAN get a license
2011-09-30T18:02:34 <+izua> dekar_: not sure how to do that
2011-09-30T18:02:34 < Steffanx> Not sure which license you get..
2011-09-30T18:02:58 <+izua> basically, a numeric menu item would have arguments for min, max and a pointerto the value, a parent menu would hold a pointer to the child menu, etc.
2011-09-30T18:03:22 <+izua> the only option here seems to be having a single struct with all the possible arguments for every possible item type?
2011-09-30T18:04:24 < dekar_> izua, you can easily use C++ polymorphism for that
2011-09-30T18:05:29 <+izua> yes but that implies using C++
2011-09-30T18:05:29 < dekar_> you're trying to do something object oriented (every menu is an object, they are similar, but have different details etc)
2011-09-30T18:05:36 <+izua> yep.
2011-09-30T18:05:38 < dekar_> so use C++?
2011-09-30T18:05:58 <+izua> no way, i have no idea what black magic the compiler will do
2011-09-30T18:06:01 < dekar_> it won't bloat the binary unless you use C++ libraries
2011-09-30T18:06:10 <+izua> yeah
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2011-09-30T18:06:21 < dekar_> w/e, I'd go for C++
2011-09-30T18:06:28 <+izua> but i'm not sure i want to do that on a memory limited device
2011-09-30T18:06:32 <+izua> (still on avr)
2011-09-30T18:06:39 < dekar_> you don't have inheritance in C
2011-09-30T18:06:46 < dekar_> so it becomes ugly
2011-09-30T18:06:47 <+izua> or objects
2011-09-30T18:07:05 <+izua> a lot of the polymorphism can be emulated with structs and unions :P
2011-09-30T18:07:09 < dekar_> izua, why would memory be a problem here?
2011-09-30T18:07:48 < dekar_> it just adds like one look up table for the virtual methods
2011-09-30T18:07:52 < dekar_> no big deal
2011-09-30T18:07:59 < Thorn> guess what I found on this lpc1768 board
2011-09-30T18:08:03 < Thorn> an stm32
2011-09-30T18:08:19 <+izua> hmm.
2011-09-30T18:08:45 < dekar_> Thorn, how did it get there :D
2011-09-30T18:08:48 <+izua> there's still one problem though.
2011-09-30T18:09:04 <+izua> struct 'instances' can be initialised at runtime and written to flash.
2011-09-30T18:09:04 < dekar_> izua, you don't know C++? :D
2011-09-30T18:09:09 <+izua> object instances can't.
2011-09-30T18:09:11 < Thorn> dekar_: onboard jlink clone
2011-09-30T18:09:22 <+izua> (as in, having the whole struct in flash)
2011-09-30T18:09:32 <+izua> (instead of loading it to ram)
2011-09-30T18:09:39 < dekar_> izua, how would you have that struct on flash?
2011-09-30T18:10:03 <+izua> it's a special macro
2011-09-30T18:10:22 < dekar_> so it would be a read only instance of that struct? XD
2011-09-30T18:10:30 <+izua> exactly what i need.
2011-09-30T18:10:38 < dekar_> you could do that manually, even using objects
2011-09-30T18:10:43 < dekar_> memcpy and cast
2011-09-30T18:10:50 <+izua> (text on the menus doesn't change when the user uses it, etc)
2011-09-30T18:11:12 <+izua> (nor does the menu structure or behaviour of each menu)
2011-09-30T18:11:12 < jpa-> izua: you can put a "parent struct" in the beginning of a "child struct"
2011-09-30T18:11:17 < jpa-> and cast them to each other
2011-09-30T18:11:21 < dekar_> izua, oh - just use static methods as well as const attributes
2011-09-30T18:11:40 <+izua> nope, they'll still go to the ram.
2011-09-30T18:12:00 <+izua> ah well
2011-09-30T18:12:03 < Steffanx> progmem ftw :)
2011-09-30T18:12:09 <+izua> i'm still hoping to do this without C++
2011-09-30T18:12:11 < dekar_> Steffanx, progmem?
2011-09-30T18:12:21 < Steffanx> Yeah, AVR thingy
2011-09-30T18:12:26 <+izua> program memory, basically the flash region of an avr
2011-09-30T18:12:30 < Steffanx> The only way to get something into flash
2011-09-30T18:12:38 <+izua> which can be used as read only memory for variables, etc
2011-09-30T18:12:43 <+izua> like a font lookup table, for example :)
2011-09-30T18:13:18 < jpa-> i like how all const's go into flash on stm32
2011-09-30T18:13:29 < Steffanx> ARM ftw :)
2011-09-30T18:13:29 < jpa-> but of couse it is more difficult on AVR as there is different address space
2011-09-30T18:14:00 <+izua> jpa-: oh, not sure what compiler magic is that
2011-09-30T18:14:40 < jpa-> izua: what?
2011-09-30T18:14:45 < dekar_> izua, compiler magic? it's simply up to the compiler to do it as it pleases
2011-09-30T18:15:23 < dekar_> izua, you're simply not supposed to cast away constness anyway :P
2011-09-30T18:17:24 <+izua> meh
2011-09-30T18:17:26 <+izua> gonna fuck this for now
2011-09-30T18:17:32 <+izua> hardcoded menus are the best
2011-09-30T18:17:49 < jpa-> data driven <3
2011-09-30T18:18:09 <+izua> you have data-driven menus? o_O
2011-09-30T18:20:33 < jpa-> no, i don't have menus
2011-09-30T18:20:46 < jpa-> but if i did, they would be data driven :)
2011-09-30T18:21:04 < dekar_> how about writing snake for hd44780? :D
2011-09-30T18:21:24 < Steffanx> hmpf?
2011-09-30T18:21:24 <+izua> snake on a 4x16?
2011-09-30T18:21:29 < Steffanx> 4x20 :)
2011-09-30T18:21:35 <+izua> you could subpixelize it
2011-09-30T18:21:53 < dekar_> be more creative, you could easily make it virtual 8x16
2011-09-30T18:22:00 <+izua> yeah
2011-09-30T18:22:09 <+izua> or probably 8x32/40
2011-09-30T18:22:11 < dekar_> the original nibbles even did that on dos/qbasic
2011-09-30T18:22:12 < Steffanx> Then i go for 16x16
2011-09-30T18:22:16 <+izua> if the user doesn't take more than 8 turns
2011-09-30T18:22:50 < dekar_> I hacked nibbles a while ago
2011-09-30T18:23:17 < dekar_> my computer was too fast so the speed test thing it uses had a division by zero
2011-09-30T18:23:30 < dekar_> it also got really hot running DOS
2011-09-30T18:23:54 < dekar_> I randomly found MS-DOS on like 6 discs in my drawer :)
2011-09-30T18:24:01 < dekar_> also windows 3.11
2011-09-30T18:24:20 < dekar_> they still worked
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2011-09-30T19:53:23 < Steffanx> Who was that who gave me a link to a 3mp camera on ebay?
2011-09-30T20:05:32 < Steffanx> Found it in my browser history, so thanks!
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2011-09-30T21:01:37 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v izua] by ChanServ
2011-09-30T21:06:31 < Steffanx> Why ChanServ gives you voice izua ? :(
2011-09-30T21:06:47 < jpa-> he's loud
2011-09-30T21:10:03 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2011-09-30T21:10:23 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2011-09-30T22:42:17 <+izua> uh he's a person of african american descent
2011-09-30T22:44:49 <+izua> Steffanx: cycle please
2011-09-30T22:45:39 < Steffanx> Cycle what?
2011-09-30T22:46:20 < Steffanx> izua ?
2011-09-30T22:47:18 <+izua> /cycle
2011-09-30T22:47:28 <+izua> uh
2011-09-30T22:47:29 <+izua> nvm
2011-09-30T22:47:32 <+izua> gonna do it manually
2011-09-30T22:47:32 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has left ##stm32 []
2011-09-30T22:47:32 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2011-09-30T22:47:35 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
2011-09-30T22:47:35 <+Steffanx> Yay
2011-09-30T22:47:52 <+izua> i typed /kick St and almost hit tab
2011-09-30T22:47:55 <+izua> when you cycled
2011-09-30T22:47:55 <+izua> ll
2011-09-30T22:48:09 <+izua> yay now you have a +
2011-09-30T22:48:16 <+izua> i always said irc should also have a -
2011-09-30T22:48:18 <+Steffanx> I think i have automatic rejoin on kick, but im not sure
2011-09-30T22:48:23 <+izua> dunno
2011-09-30T22:48:28 <+izua> feel like trying out? *evil grin*
2011-09-30T22:48:30 <+Steffanx> TRy iy :)
2011-09-30T22:48:34 <+Steffanx> it
2011-09-30T22:48:42 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o izua] by ChanServ
2011-09-30T22:48:43 -!- Steffanx was kicked from ##stm32 by izua [Steffanx]
2011-09-30T22:48:43 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2011-09-30T22:48:46 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
2011-09-30T22:48:46 <@izua> oh yeah
2011-09-30T22:48:48 <@izua> autokick
2011-09-30T22:48:51 <@izua> most annoying feature in the world
2011-09-30T22:48:58 <@izua> autojoin
2011-09-30T22:48:59 <@izua> imean
2011-09-30T22:49:01 <@izua> and with that.
2011-09-30T22:49:05 <@izua> i am off to get myself wasted
2011-09-30T22:49:06 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-09-30T22:49:07 <@izua> *ahem*
2011-09-30T22:49:12 <+Steffanx> Have fun
2011-09-30T22:49:15 <@izua> i mean on a conference about stm32
2011-09-30T22:49:17 <@izua> i will.
2011-09-30T22:49:26 <+Steffanx> Also drink one for me
2011-09-30T22:49:43 -!- mode/##stm32 [+oooo ziph jpa- BrainDamage grummund] by izua
2011-09-30T22:49:43 -!- mode/##stm32 [+oooo |Marco| dekar_ Laurenceb Steffanx] by izua
2011-09-30T22:49:46 -!- mode/##stm32 [+ooo biot` erik-k Thorn] by izua
2011-09-30T22:49:49 <@izua> waiting to see fire and brimstone when i get back
2011-09-30T22:49:51 <@izua> i sure will.
2011-09-30T22:50:17 -!- mode/##stm32 [-oooo biot` BrainDamage dekar_ erik-k] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T22:50:17 -!- mode/##stm32 [-oooo grummund jpa- Laurenceb Thorn] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T22:50:20 -!- mode/##stm32 [-oo ziph |Marco|] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T22:50:21 <@Steffanx> :P
2011-09-30T22:50:24 <@izua> god damn it
2011-09-30T22:50:32 <@izua> you're more dangerous than everyone else
2011-09-30T22:51:15 -!- Steffanx changed the topic of ##stm32 to: 2011-09-30: a total of 13 users will have their firmware stolen | http://tinyurl.com/4469sbn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
2011-09-30T23:03:03 < BrainDamage> what are the random oooo modes?
2011-09-30T23:07:59 < dekar_> O.o
2011-09-30T23:17:39 -!- phantoxe [~destroy@a95-92-86-197.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2011-09-30T23:26:35 < grummund> sup
2011-09-30T23:38:11 <@Steffanx> Not random BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:38:41 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o izua] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T23:38:51 <@Steffanx> See, not random :)
2011-09-30T23:39:31 < BrainDamage> what do they mean?
2011-09-30T23:39:53 <@Steffanx> Operator
2011-09-30T23:40:04 <@Steffanx> Gives you the power to ban/kick etc.
2011-09-30T23:42:22 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o BrainDamage] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T23:42:25 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T23:42:26 <+Steffanx> Have fun BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:55:52 <@BrainDamage> oh, not really interested, really
2011-09-30T23:56:00 <@BrainDamage> I'm not a person that seeks power
2011-09-30T23:56:42 <@BrainDamage> is there an help for the command list? so I can un-set myself?
2011-09-30T23:57:11 < grummund> /deop nick
2011-09-30T23:57:40 <+Steffanx> Give it to someone else BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:57:47 <+Steffanx>  /op nick
2011-09-30T23:57:54 <+Steffanx>  /deop BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:58:02 <@BrainDamage> I'll give it back to you
2011-09-30T23:58:10 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:58:17 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o BrainDamage] by BrainDamage
2011-09-30T23:58:32 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o jpa-] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T23:58:35 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2011-09-30T23:58:39 <+Steffanx> Don't break the chain!
--- Log closed Sat Oct 01 00:00:57 2011