--- Log opened Sat Oct 01 00:00:57 2011
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2011-10-01T06:03:37 < erik-k> If the usart's TXEIE is disabled, and it's idle/empty, will it generate the usart interrupt immediately upon TXEIE being enabled again?
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2011-10-01T06:22:00 < erik-k> Looks like the answer's "yes"
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2011-10-01T16:46:17 <+Steffanx> We survived it izua :)
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2011-10-01T19:30:19 <+izua> dekar_: any cool series i should be watching
2011-10-01T19:30:23 <+izua> like those better off ted
2011-10-01T19:30:30 <+izua> you told me about some time ago
2011-10-01T19:30:34 <+izua> s/those/that
2011-10-01T20:04:54 < dekar_> izua, I really liked "Suits"
2011-10-01T21:15:37 <@jpa-> gah, i'm running out of pins
2011-10-01T21:17:54  * grummund hands jpa some spare pins
2011-10-01T21:19:52 <@jpa-> grummund: maybe i could just solder you to the board and you'll flick CS at the proper times?
2011-10-01T21:20:08 < grummund> :-O
2011-10-01T21:20:24 <@jpa-> hmm.. or maybe i take out my handy dandy 74*138.. 
2011-10-01T21:22:33 <@jpa-> except that i think it was 74LS.. and this is 3V :(
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2011-10-02T04:49:01 < erik-k> For a 32-bit machine without an FPU, will there be any difference multiplying a float by 131072 vs 100000?
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2011-10-02T09:24:55 <@jpa-> erik-k: probably 131072 is a bit faster, but not sure how much
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2011-10-02T09:52:54 < erik-k> jpa-: Now that I think about it using 2^n has other advantages... that way when it's time to compare "where does the fine virtual lattice predict" vs "where am I on the coarse physical lattice" the comparison involves virt_pos >> N instead of an actual division :)
2011-10-02T10:13:10 <@jpa-> :)
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2011-10-02T14:14:02 <+Steffanx> yay, jpa- is still OP
2011-10-02T14:32:44 < ziph> Figuring out pin assignments for these things is a lot like Sudoku.
2011-10-02T14:34:54 < BrainDamage> mmm, maybe there's a program for automatic assignment already
2011-10-02T14:35:05 < BrainDamage> you assign constraints, and it maps you pins
2011-10-02T14:35:54 < ziph> Maybe, but where you assign them has more to do with layout than just meeting the constraints.
2011-10-02T14:36:09 < BrainDamage> layout is a constraint
2011-10-02T14:36:21 < ziph> A rather complex one to be entering. :)
2011-10-02T14:36:43 < BrainDamage> yes, I meant the place & route algo could actually use a range of pins
2011-10-02T14:37:19 < BrainDamage> most naïve version would be bruteforcing the comnbinations, if they aren't a lot
2011-10-02T14:37:37 < ziph> There are a million plug-in SAT solvers.
2011-10-02T14:37:54 <+izua> oh
2011-10-02T14:38:00 <+izua> sounds like fpga voodoo
2011-10-02T14:38:09 < ziph> Or you could back-end it to a SAT front end like Alloy.
2011-10-02T14:38:40 < BrainDamage> not that simple, remember that it's a travelling saleman problem attached to it
2011-10-02T14:38:45 < BrainDamage> remapping pin changes the graph
2011-10-02T14:39:17 < ziph> Look up the SAT problem and solvers. There are heuristics sufficient for any sized problem you'd throw at it with IC pins.
2011-10-02T14:47:27 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 13 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 9 normal]
2011-10-02T14:47:31 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by jpa-
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2011-10-02T16:20:45 <+izua> oh lol
2011-10-02T16:20:49 <+izua> people still have ops
2011-10-02T16:20:51 <+izua> and passed those around
2011-10-02T16:30:07 <@jpa-> why shouldn't we? :)
2011-10-02T16:30:27 <@jpa-> ah, because of izua fooling around
2011-10-02T16:30:29 <@jpa-> bad izua 
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2011-10-02T16:31:16 < izua> lol
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2011-10-03T11:51:03 <+Steffanx> dekar_ you missed something
2011-10-03T11:51:13 <+Steffanx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/rue/free.jpg … free stm32f4 kits
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2011-10-03T11:51:26 <+Steffanx> There was only one problem, it was US only
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2011-10-03T14:29:01 < erik-k> What kind of penalties are there for mixing int32s with uint32s?
2011-10-03T14:30:14 < BrainDamage> if your int is < 0 and you shove into uint, you'll get a large number
2011-10-03T14:31:43 < BrainDamage> and viceversa, if uint is > max(int32) and you put it in, the result will be negative
2011-10-03T14:41:53 < erik-k> Obviously... I mean is there a penalty for uint32 + int32 -> uint32 due to typecasting or such?
2011-10-03T14:45:48 <@jpa-> erik-k: no, because in that case the int32 is treated as uint32
2011-10-03T14:46:16 <@jpa-> (uint32)(int32 value) keeps the data and just changes the semantics
2011-10-03T14:47:22 < erik-k> Ok, now suppose I have uint32 + int32 where int32 is negative...
2011-10-03T14:47:52  * erik-k really should stop this bullshitting around and just let them all be signed probably
2011-10-03T14:49:42 < BrainDamage> erik-k: binary-speaking, uint and int are written identical, it's just how you interprete them that changes
2011-10-03T14:50:03 <@jpa-> yeah, and for + they are interpreted exactly the same
2011-10-03T14:50:28 < erik-k> So attempting to add a negative int to a uint will result in sadness
2011-10-03T14:50:39 <+Steffanx> Sadness ftw :)
2011-10-03T14:51:02 < erik-k> and the compiler won't insert any human-semantic-preserving conditionals to to add/sub?
2011-10-03T14:51:09 <@jpa-> erik-k: well, if the result fits in the result datatype, it gives happiness
2011-10-03T14:51:17 <@jpa-> but if the result doesn't fit, it gives sadness
2011-10-03T14:51:46 < BrainDamage> the compiler should warn you about mixing int & uint, and if you want, you can make the warning a fatal error
2011-10-03T14:51:47 < erik-k> The system is designed to reject negative results before getting this far, and the integer lattice I'm working on has factor-of-10 headroom :)
2011-10-03T14:51:51 <@jpa-> the 2's complement notation already preserves all the nice human semantics without bothering the machine with it.. it is nice and scary
2011-10-03T14:52:05 < BrainDamage> but it'll be up to you ensuring that the result is consistent
2011-10-03T14:52:53 < erik-k> jpa-: Hmm... never did the exercise myself, but I'm guessing adding -int to uint simply results in the 33rd bit overflowing into the bitbucket?
2011-10-03T14:53:22 <@jpa-> erik-k: yeah, and that is how 2's complement arithmetic works :)
2011-10-03T14:53:28 < erik-k> Intriguing.
2011-10-03T14:53:29 <@jpa-> by overflowing at the proper times :)
2011-10-03T14:53:31 < erik-k> And yes, scary.
2011-10-03T14:53:38 <@jpa-> now, if we have multiplication and division, things get nastier
2011-10-03T14:53:49 <@jpa-> then the sign does matter
2011-10-03T14:55:20 < erik-k> Hmmm, autistic-level attention to signed/unsigned conversion everywhere is bad, but making it possible for a fundamentally nonnegative quantity to take on negative values deeply offends my sense of aesthetics
2011-10-03T14:55:26 <@jpa-> with uint32 / int32 the compiler casts both values to uint32 before dividing
2011-10-03T14:55:57 <@jpa-> just type int
2011-10-03T14:56:02 < BrainDamage> unless you really need that extra bit precision, I'd suggest you to use int32 everywhere possible
2011-10-03T14:56:22 <@jpa-> that is how 'int' as a datatype is supposed to be used, "i don't really care what i get, because i don't need anything special"
2011-10-03T14:56:24 < BrainDamage> and convert any external lib asap
2011-10-03T14:56:47 <@jpa-> not int32, just int..
2011-10-03T14:57:16 < BrainDamage> int has variable precision on the platform tough, but in the case of stm, it doesn't mater
2011-10-03T14:57:37 < BrainDamage> it's just guaranteed to be >= 16 bit
2011-10-03T14:57:43 <@jpa-> yeah
2011-10-03T14:58:04 < erik-k> jpa-: It does matter to me very much that it be a 32-bit integer though. In short, I have a physical lattice with 3K-30K points that I want to map onto a virtual lattice with, say, 8192x as many points so I can do my acceleration/deceleration calcs in int
2011-10-03T14:58:49 <@jpa-> erik-k: you might want to consider a fixed-point arithmetic library
2011-10-03T14:59:14 < erik-k> In truth, the stm32 is muscular enough I could probably get away with floats
2011-10-03T14:59:53 < erik-k> But I believe if it's worth doing it's worth doing /right/.
2011-10-03T15:00:01 <@jpa-> if you know your data range and handle the rounding with integer arithmetic, you get more precision than with 32-bit floats :)
2011-10-03T15:00:26 <@jpa-> (because they only have 23 bits of mantissa)
2011-10-03T15:00:42 < erik-k> jpa-: keep in mind I only get ~12 bits of physical resolution
2011-10-03T15:00:44 < erik-k> :/
2011-10-03T15:01:03 < erik-k> That could be extended to 16 in principle, but the machine would be unbelievably slow as a result
2011-10-03T15:01:28 <@jpa-> http://code.google.com/p/libfixmath/ looks nice but i haven't used it yet
2011-10-03T15:02:21 <+Steffanx> I did
2011-10-03T15:02:31 <+Steffanx> It does where it's made for :P
2011-10-03T15:03:11  * erik-k is kind of skeptical of the whole approach of the thermal-extuder printer he's programming this stm32 to drive....
2011-10-03T15:03:17 < erik-k> (3d printer)
2011-10-03T15:03:37 < Laurenceb> heh too late now
2011-10-03T15:03:42 < erik-k> True..
2011-10-03T15:03:45 < Laurenceb> if you're built it
2011-10-03T15:03:55 < Laurenceb> but yeah i dont think its going to go anywhere
2011-10-03T15:04:09 < Laurenceb> laser sintering ftw
2011-10-03T15:04:29 < erik-k> But we're rastering a 3d object with a 1d printhead. The printhead needs to be 2d or it loses to increasing resolution very, very quickly
2011-10-03T15:05:22 <@jpa-> erik-k: often you are only interested in the surface of the object, the inside can be mostly air
2011-10-03T15:06:00 <@jpa-> (and is your printhead 1d or 0d? :)
2011-10-03T15:06:17 < erik-k> oh shi...
2011-10-03T15:06:21 < erik-k> it's even worse!
2011-10-03T15:06:25 < erik-k> :)
2011-10-03T15:07:18 < erik-k> The fantasy is an organometallic liquid, where light of a certain frequency causes a surface reaction that plates metal onto whatever surface the light shines on.
2011-10-03T15:08:18 < erik-k> Even if you have to put down a new flat surface each slice, you're slowed down a most O(1/x)
2011-10-03T15:09:29 < erik-k> Well, I need to get my token 4 hours of sleep before work.
2011-10-03T15:09:44 < erik-k> Thanks for the helpful stuff :)
2011-10-03T15:50:21 <+izua> erik-k: what kind of drivers would your printer/cnc be using?
2011-10-03T15:50:30 <+izua> the regular step/dir kind?
2011-10-03T17:19:59 < dekar_> Steffanx, somehow I don't really care, might be related to the fact I don't have to pay for that stuff
2011-10-03T17:20:13 <+Steffanx> :P
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2011-10-03T17:31:21 <+Steffanx> Hmpf, i should really do a mem test
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2011-10-04T19:17:53 < erik-k> izua: It's stepper driven, belts for XY and threaded rod for Z
2011-10-04T19:18:07 <+izua> oh.
2011-10-04T19:18:12 <+izua> neat
2011-10-04T19:23:51 < erik-k> gotta run, ttyl :)
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2011-10-05T16:32:11 <@jpa-> can vbat be connected to 0V if i don't use the RTC? :)
2011-10-05T16:32:36 <+Steffanx> i connected it too vcc iirc
2011-10-05T16:32:53 <@jpa-> yeah, but my layout would be soooo much nicer if i could connect it to GND :)
2011-10-05T16:33:03 <@jpa-> The RTC and the backup registers are supplied through a switch that takes power either on
2011-10-05T16:33:03 <@jpa-> VDD supply when present or through the VBAT pin.
2011-10-05T16:33:21 <@jpa-> that would make one believe that i can.. but i'm not entirely sure
2011-10-05T16:33:36 < ziph> The NXP's datasheet recommends connecting it to VCC.
2011-10-05T16:38:51 <@jpa-> looks like ST's reference manual recommends that too
2011-10-05T16:40:14 <@jpa-> hmh, they recommend it so many times that i guess i have to comply
2011-10-05T16:40:21 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-05T16:40:24 <+Steffanx> Poor you
2011-10-05T16:40:50 <@jpa-> then it is just a question of which of my ground planes is more important :)
2011-10-05T16:41:06 <+Steffanx> none
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2011-10-05T16:42:35 <@jpa-> heh, it might be easier for my layout to add an extra battery there :D
2011-10-05T16:43:19 <+Steffanx> hmpf
2011-10-05T16:45:25 < ziph> You're trying to do it on 2 layers?
2011-10-05T16:46:37 <@jpa-> yes
2011-10-05T16:46:52 <@jpa-> maybe i'll do the connection on the silkscreen layer.. :)
2011-10-05T16:48:07 <+Steffanx> What do you make jpa- ?
2011-10-05T16:48:57 <@jpa-> a motherboard.. the mother of all stm32 boards!
2011-10-05T16:49:10 <@jpa-> so.. a board with a processor and a bunch of connectors :F
2011-10-05T16:49:14 < ziph> jpa-: Any reason you can't go to 4 layera?
2011-10-05T16:50:07 <@jpa-> ziph: i don't know where to get 4 layers cheap
2011-10-05T16:50:23 < ziph> jpa-: Laen's PCB order for starters.
2011-10-05T16:50:47 <@jpa-> but i guess i can break the top layer GND plane.. the currents will have to go through a via to the chip on the bottom anyway, so it doesn't matter if they take a via a few mm earlier
2011-10-05T16:53:35 <@jpa-> ziph: ah, can't match the price of seeed for 2 layers ($25 vs. $100, i have a 4x2.5 inch design)
2011-10-05T16:53:51 <@jpa-> ziph: but nice to know anyway, i might need 4 layers in the future
2011-10-05T16:54:14 < ziph> jpa-: Is it worth the $75 of your time though? :)
2011-10-05T16:54:44 <@jpa-> ziph: none of this is :D
2011-10-05T16:55:11 <@jpa-> i stopped caring about my time when i spent 4 months reinventing software that already existed ,)
2011-10-05T16:56:00 <@jpa-> it's horrible to judge the cost of hobby projects in matter of time
2011-10-05T16:56:26 < ziph> Then look at it from a quality point of view. :)
2011-10-05T16:56:45 <+Steffanx> I want one, if it's a F4 board jpa- :P
2011-10-05T16:56:48 <+Steffanx> *an
2011-10-05T16:57:08 <@jpa-> if calculated by time, this lousy car would have cost 2000€  http://essentialscrap.com/toycar/ :D
2011-10-05T16:57:16 <@jpa-> Steffanx: no, stm32f105 :P
2011-10-05T16:57:26 <+Steffanx> Hmm
2011-10-05T16:57:28 <+Steffanx> Not even F2
2011-10-05T16:57:44 <+Steffanx> Nice car jpa-
2011-10-05T16:57:48 < ziph> jpa-: Why didn't you carve it out of granite? :)
2011-10-05T16:58:31 <@jpa-> ziph: didn't want granite dust in lungs :)
2011-10-05T16:59:48 < ziph> Well, there is that.
2011-10-05T16:59:59 <+Steffanx> Hmm, you married way too young jpa- :P
2011-10-05T17:00:16 < ziph> If you leave it too long they can get away.
2011-10-05T17:00:43 <@jpa-> Steffanx: how do you know that i married young, i'm old already :D
2011-10-05T17:00:57 <+Steffanx> How i know it?
2011-10-05T17:01:22 <+Steffanx> Your website states you are 23. A post from one year ago says something about your 'wife', so you married too young :P
2011-10-05T17:01:28 <@jpa-> well, if you think i married young you'd be surprised by how young :)
2011-10-05T17:03:29 <+Steffanx> 18 :P
2011-10-05T17:03:52 <@jpa-> hmm.. 20 actually (had to calculate :D
2011-10-05T17:03:57 <+Steffanx> lol :P
2011-10-05T17:04:16 <@jpa-> now lets see if the room is full ->
2011-10-05T17:12:30 <@jpa-> yes, it is.. now i have to wait :(
2011-10-05T17:13:13 <+Steffanx> huh?
2011-10-05T17:13:35 <+Steffanx> "Room, full .. have to wait" I missed something :P
2011-10-05T17:13:56 <@jpa-> exercise room
2011-10-05T17:14:11 <+Steffanx> You have an exercise room?
2011-10-05T17:14:13 <@jpa-> we have this boring system that we have to demonstrate course assignments to assistants
2011-10-05T17:14:57 <+Steffanx> I guess you do not mean an exercise room where you train/sport
2011-10-05T17:15:00 <+Steffanx> ?
2011-10-05T17:15:20 <@jpa-> no, exercise room where you sit in front of computer :D
2011-10-05T17:15:30 <+Steffanx> AAH :)
2011-10-05T17:15:44 <@jpa-> the thing is that you type reeeally fast so that you get exercise at the same time
2011-10-05T17:16:16 < ziph> I didn't think men had any problem getting hand exercises in front of Internet connected computers?
2011-10-05T17:16:41 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-05T17:17:50 <+Steffanx> ziph has enough experience?
2011-10-05T17:18:14 < ziph> Nah, not really in to porn. Not that you're liable to believe that.
2011-10-05T17:18:57 <+Steffanx> I believ eyou
2011-10-05T17:20:25 < ziph> I should make all 73 of these resistors on this board 10k for simplicity.
2011-10-05T17:21:11 <+Steffanx> I have a new project.. i have to solder 196 0805 LEDS to 4 PCB's. I still doubt if that's going to be a success
2011-10-05T17:21:29 < ziph> Although I'm not sure the active filters would work quite as well.
2011-10-05T17:22:50 < ziph> Steffanx: Resistor networks? Although in SMD they tend to have far higher rework rates. At least you don't get pads grabbing and raising up RN's.
2011-10-05T17:23:24 <+Steffanx> No, LED's not resistors :)
2011-10-05T17:23:33 < ziph> Oops.
2011-10-05T17:23:52 < ziph> Could you use LED arrays? :)
2011-10-05T17:23:56 <+Steffanx> No
2011-10-05T17:24:14 <+Steffanx> The specing is +- 1,4cm
2011-10-05T17:24:18 <+Steffanx> *spacing
2011-10-05T17:36:48 <+Steffanx> It's getting annoying. I receive someone's amateur radio-talk with my headphone :(
2011-10-05T17:37:25 < ziph> Amplified headphones?
2011-10-05T17:37:37 <+Steffanx> Buggy macbook pro hw i guess :P
2011-10-05T17:38:40 <+Steffanx> It only happens with this headphone though
2011-10-05T17:39:36 <+Steffanx> There are more things on this macbook apple screwed up
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2011-10-05T17:40:53 <+Steffanx> Welcome Sir
2011-10-05T18:26:07 < ziph> The Octapart guys are nice. I e-mailed them saying some price breaks weren't showing and they had it fixed within an hour.
2011-10-05T19:25:09 <+Steffanx> Yay
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2011-10-05T22:55:19 <+Steffanx> Help! Why the freertos website uses FRAMES?!?!?!
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2011-10-06T08:37:54 < erik-k> Horray for having > 1MFlops! I can just solve my trajectory equations for the next step in realtime
2011-10-06T08:40:40 < ziph> Building a cruise missile, eh?
2011-10-06T08:41:06 < erik-k> lol, nothing so exciting
2011-10-06T08:41:14 < erik-k> boring ole 3d printer
2011-10-06T08:44:02 < erik-k> I won't deny it's very tempting to be lazy and just having a 10Khz "is it time to take the next step?" poll
2011-10-06T08:44:05 < erik-k> *just have
2011-10-06T08:44:06 < ziph> A jet propelled, explosive 3d printer capable of tracking the nap of the earth and destroying targets 400 Km away?
2011-10-06T08:44:42  * erik-k hands ziph a rocket-powered jet engine and slowly backs away
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2011-10-06T12:40:08 <+Steffanx> St really  needs a better website, can't really find what i'm looking for
2011-10-06T12:40:15 <+Steffanx> Some bootloader example code
2011-10-06T12:40:54 <+Steffanx> The links i find with google are dead
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2011-10-06T15:09:06 <@jpa-> how do i know when it is ready? http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/mainboard2.png
2011-10-06T15:09:31 <+Steffanx> When it looks nice
2011-10-06T15:09:41 <@jpa-> does it look nice?
2011-10-06T15:09:58 <+Steffanx> You use a switching regulator?
2011-10-06T15:10:03 <@jpa-> no
2011-10-06T15:10:09 < Laurenceb> its a robot
2011-10-06T15:10:14 < Laurenceb> what micro?
2011-10-06T15:10:14 <@jpa-> i just filter with the 1mH for analog stuff :)
2011-10-06T15:10:21 <@jpa-> stm32f105something
2011-10-06T15:10:27 < BrainDamage> sonar? is that a robot?
2011-10-06T15:10:37 <@jpa-> yes
2011-10-06T15:10:42 < BrainDamage> aw, I should read before typing enter :/
2011-10-06T15:10:44 <@jpa-> it causes braindamage with sonar
2011-10-06T15:11:02 <+Steffanx> It causes Steffanx too?
2011-10-06T15:11:06 < BrainDamage> must be a pretty powerful one, 120dB? :p
2011-10-06T15:11:54 <+Steffanx> The only thing i dislike is the shitload of headers jpa-
2011-10-06T15:12:28 <@jpa-> Steffanx: yeah but i want everything modular because i mess everything up :D
2011-10-06T15:13:06 <+Steffanx> And you should get a small crystal, not such a big one :P
2011-10-06T15:13:13 < BrainDamage> what is the "extra"? the mind control device?
2011-10-06T15:13:28 <+Steffanx> The xtal is larger than the stm32 :P
2011-10-06T15:14:12 <@jpa-> BrainDamage: no it is eeg for reading back the amount of braindamage
2011-10-06T15:14:34 <@jpa-> Steffanx: yeah i should have gotten a bigger stm32 :D
2011-10-06T15:14:44 <+Steffanx> And a smaller xtal
2011-10-06T15:14:54 <@jpa-> but i put the xtal in a cage so that it doesn't eat the smaller components
2011-10-06T15:15:09 < Laurenceb> what sort of robot?
2011-10-06T15:15:15 < Laurenceb> ardroidjobs?
2011-10-06T15:15:37 < Laurenceb> arduino compatible steve jobs zombie android?
2011-10-06T15:15:59 <+Steffanx> It's not that hard to make a dead adruino ..
2011-10-06T15:16:04 <+Steffanx> *android
2011-10-06T15:16:34 <@jpa-> Laurenceb: autonomous boat
2011-10-06T15:16:41 < Laurenceb> sweety
2011-10-06T15:16:46 <+Steffanx> Where is it going to jpa- ?
2011-10-06T15:16:49 <+Steffanx> North pole?
2011-10-06T15:16:59  * Laurenceb made a sun seeking boat ages ago
2011-10-06T15:17:07 <+Steffanx> Sun seeking boat
2011-10-06T15:17:07 < Laurenceb> when i was about 14 :P all opamps
2011-10-06T15:17:11 <@jpa-> Steffanx: unfortunately GPRS so lakes only :P
2011-10-06T15:17:11 <+Steffanx> You need a space ship for that
2011-10-06T15:17:36 <@jpa-> Laurenceb: did it sail around the world in 24 hours?
2011-10-06T15:17:41 < Laurenceb> it went out into the middle of the river and got stuck in a bit of strong current
2011-10-06T15:17:49 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2011-10-06T15:17:55 < Laurenceb> had to wait for 2 hours for the battery to go flat
2011-10-06T15:18:04 <+Steffanx> LOL, no backup control?
2011-10-06T15:19:31 <+Steffanx> jpa- .. one question
2011-10-06T15:19:41 <@jpa-> .. one answer
2011-10-06T15:21:27 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20111006-142000.png
2011-10-06T15:21:29 <+Steffanx> Whats that?
2011-10-06T15:21:55 <@jpa-> second pad of a capacitor?
2011-10-06T15:22:10 < Laurenceb> but why
2011-10-06T15:22:11 <@jpa-> nice arrow btw
2011-10-06T15:22:13 <+Steffanx> If you say so :P
2011-10-06T15:22:15 < Laurenceb> wtf is it doing there
2011-10-06T15:22:21 < Laurenceb> what did you do the arrow with?
2011-10-06T15:22:38 <+Steffanx> Skitch
2011-10-06T15:22:38 <@jpa-> Laurenceb: there is a wire underneath the arrow, going to the chip :)
2011-10-06T15:22:56 < Laurenceb> oh
2011-10-06T15:22:58 <+Steffanx> Take a screenshop app for os x Laurenceb
2011-10-06T15:23:05 < Laurenceb> os x .....
2011-10-06T15:23:10 < Laurenceb> http://xkcd.com/961/
2011-10-06T15:24:43 <+Steffanx> Im pretty sure there's a windows/linux version, or at least a similar app
2011-10-06T15:25:41 < Laurenceb> yeah
2011-10-06T15:25:44 < Laurenceb> gimp
2011-10-06T15:25:47 < Laurenceb> or dia
2011-10-06T15:25:53  * Laurenceb uses dia 
2011-10-06T15:26:12 <+Steffanx> Gimp takes more time probably?
2011-10-06T15:26:58 <+Steffanx> I select the part of the screen i want to take a shot of, draw the arrow, click 'share' click again to get the url and paste it here :P
2011-10-06T15:27:10 <@jpa-> i use ksnapshot but it doesn't have fancy arrows :D
2011-10-06T15:28:30 < Laurenceb> yeah
2011-10-06T15:28:39 < Laurenceb> gimp cant just draw arrows, dia can
2011-10-06T15:30:16 <+Steffanx> Can it also upload the image directly to your ftp server and give you the url?
2011-10-06T15:30:17 <+Steffanx>  :)
2011-10-06T15:30:58 <@jpa-> i just type topix and it does :)
2011-10-06T15:33:44 <+Steffanx> One final question jpa-, is it in Norway 'normal' to get married when you're ~21 ?
2011-10-06T15:33:53 <+Steffanx> *finland
2011-10-06T15:34:19 < Laurenceb> uk you can marry at 16
2011-10-06T15:34:26 < Laurenceb> vatican city at 12 XD
2011-10-06T15:34:58 <@jpa-> Steffanx: not standard, but not too rare either
2011-10-06T15:35:06 <@jpa-> the limit is 18 here
2011-10-06T15:35:14 <+Steffanx> You have to do something when there's 1m snow :P
2011-10-06T15:35:17 <@jpa-> Steffanx: i recommend early or forever alone
2011-10-06T15:36:16 < Laurenceb> you're getting married?
2011-10-06T15:36:50 <@jpa-> no i'm married since 2 years and Steffanx thinks i'm weird
2011-10-06T15:37:17 <+Steffanx> No, not weird
2011-10-06T15:37:19 <+Steffanx> Young :P
2011-10-06T15:37:26 <@jpa-> Steffanx: so what is your life situation? :)
2011-10-06T15:37:40 <+Steffanx> Home and alone :P
2011-10-06T15:37:44 < Laurenceb> lol
2011-10-06T15:37:59 <@jpa-> that is fine too :)
2011-10-06T15:38:20 <+Steffanx> As in, i'm still young and have no gf :P
2011-10-06T15:38:39 <@jpa-> now, tell us about your age
2011-10-06T15:38:41 < Laurenceb> well you wont find one on irc
2011-10-06T15:38:46 <+Steffanx> You -2
2011-10-06T15:38:56  * Laurenceb is +2
2011-10-06T15:39:02 <+Steffanx> You never know Laurenceb
2011-10-06T15:39:06 <@jpa-> gahh math, do i have to integrate or is multiplication fine?
2011-10-06T15:39:11 < Laurenceb> true
2011-10-06T15:39:25 < Laurenceb> theres no girls on irc mainly cuz they'd never admit it
2011-10-06T15:39:31 <@jpa-> Steffanx: so you are just the perfect age to get married.. any girl you like?
2011-10-06T15:40:19 <+Steffanx> Not that i know of :(
2011-10-06T15:41:10 <@jpa-> oh.. i guess all the nice girls are in finland
2011-10-06T15:42:00 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-06T15:42:25 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/fx8s1T8J
2011-10-06T15:42:28 < Laurenceb> i dont get it
2011-10-06T15:42:40 < Laurenceb> does that actually free any RAM?
2011-10-06T15:42:58 <+Steffanx> Some else stole the gpl'd rf22 lib? L)
2011-10-06T15:43:18 < Laurenceb> you've used it?
2011-10-06T15:43:22 <@jpa-> Laurenceb: if you allocate new routes by searching one with "invalid" state
2011-10-06T15:43:44 <+Steffanx> Yes, but i modified it Laurenceb
2011-10-06T15:43:47 <+Steffanx> From C++ to C
2011-10-06T15:44:43 <+Steffanx> Read the 'change logs', the last two items… that's me :P
2011-10-06T15:46:00 <+Steffanx> There is other mistake i didn't report yay
2011-10-06T15:46:04 <+Steffanx> *yet
2011-10-06T15:46:21 <+Steffanx> It's only a 'cosmetic' error
2011-10-06T15:47:32 <+Steffanx> And i rewrote the frequency set routine to a fixed point version
2011-10-06T15:48:25 <+Steffanx> ( i didn't use the router etc. btw)
2011-10-06T15:49:33 <+Steffanx> Which module do you have Laurenceb ?
2011-10-06T15:49:34 <+Steffanx> Rfm22b?
2011-10-06T15:50:41 < Laurenceb> none
2011-10-06T15:50:53 < Laurenceb> sweet, do you have the c code?
2011-10-06T15:51:24 < Laurenceb> i have my own pcb
2011-10-06T15:52:06 <+Steffanx> I do
2011-10-06T15:52:16 < Laurenceb> online?
2011-10-06T15:53:14 <+Steffanx> Yes, but not accessible foryou :P
2011-10-06T15:53:29 <+Steffanx> it's ugly-ish too :P
2011-10-06T15:54:37 <+Steffanx> You really really want it?
2011-10-06T15:54:41 < Laurenceb> no then
2011-10-06T15:54:49 < Laurenceb> i have way to many bugs as it is
2011-10-06T15:54:55 <+Steffanx> bugs?
2011-10-06T15:54:57 < Laurenceb> ill compile it as c
2011-10-06T15:55:02 < Laurenceb> *c++
2011-10-06T15:55:10 <+Steffanx> I just removed the c++ part
2011-10-06T15:55:11 < Laurenceb> in the rest of my code
2011-10-06T15:55:17 < Laurenceb> huh
2011-10-06T15:55:20 < Laurenceb> its all c++
2011-10-06T15:55:22 <+Steffanx> As in replaced RF22:: by RFM22_ :P
2011-10-06T15:55:26 < Laurenceb> oh
2011-10-06T15:55:57 < Laurenceb> do you understand how the next hop works
2011-10-06T15:56:06 < Laurenceb> im trying to understnad that atm
2011-10-06T15:56:23 < Laurenceb> how is next hop added to the packet?
2011-10-06T15:56:50 <+Steffanx> Hop?
2011-10-06T15:57:00 <+Steffanx> That's not part of the main class i guess?
2011-10-06T15:57:15 < Laurenceb> i mean in the actual packet
2011-10-06T15:57:37 <+Steffanx> Sorry, i don't understand why you mean
2011-10-06T15:57:55 < Laurenceb> normally the packet header is 4 bytes
2011-10-06T15:58:01 <+Steffanx> Yes
2011-10-06T15:58:06 < Laurenceb> with final destination and origin
2011-10-06T15:58:16 < Laurenceb> in mesh mode, it needs next hop as well
2011-10-06T15:58:25 <+Steffanx> Oh, i don't know
2011-10-06T15:58:33 < Laurenceb> so that has to be added to the packet
2011-10-06T15:58:37 <+Steffanx> That's part of the router code which i didn't use
2011-10-06T15:58:42 < Laurenceb> yeah i dont understand how its added
2011-10-06T16:00:43 <+Steffanx> Isn't a router listening to all packages and sends them again?
2011-10-06T16:00:51 <+Steffanx> Or .. ?
2011-10-06T16:01:02 <+Steffanx> I'm not really into wireless communication sprotocols
2011-10-06T16:02:16 < Laurenceb> heh me neither
2011-10-06T16:02:31 < Laurenceb> aiui every packet is point to point
2011-10-06T16:02:38 < Laurenceb> so it goes from one node to the next
2011-10-06T16:03:05 < Laurenceb> there broadcast packets that flood through the network and are used for discovering and routing
2011-10-06T16:03:23 < Laurenceb> think physical flooding algorithm
2011-10-06T16:03:35 < Laurenceb> tbh i was suprised how simple it is
2011-10-06T16:06:30 < Laurenceb> going to impliment it on my autopilot
2011-10-06T16:08:31 <+Steffanx> What's the range?
2011-10-06T16:08:40 <+Steffanx> I never really tested it with the modules i have
2011-10-06T16:12:40 < Laurenceb> depends on the data rate
2011-10-06T16:12:53 < Laurenceb> at lowest data rate with yagis it should be insane
2011-10-06T16:13:31 < Laurenceb> probably compatible to the stuff we fly on balloons, our record is 970Km with 434 10mw 300bps
2011-10-06T16:13:46 <+Steffanx> in the air?
2011-10-06T16:13:49 <+Steffanx> Yes :P
2011-10-06T16:13:51 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-10-06T16:15:13 < Laurenceb> with whip on the balloon at 40Km altitude, and huge yagi on the ground :P
2011-10-06T16:16:18 < Laurenceb> someone in Australia did Sydney to Adelaide - 300bps with 10mw from 30km
2011-10-06T16:17:52 <+Steffanx> 10mW :)
2011-10-06T16:18:11 <+Steffanx> At least the rfm22b can go to 100 iirc
2011-10-06T16:18:40 < Laurenceb> it gets worse near the ground
2011-10-06T16:19:07 < Laurenceb> at altitude you get orders of magnitude greater range
2011-10-06T16:19:49 < Laurenceb> still - openpilot got 11km range between two si4432 transceivers with whips on the
2011-10-06T16:19:55 < Laurenceb> ground
2011-10-06T16:20:27 <+Steffanx> 'whips' = ?
2011-10-06T16:23:10 < Laurenceb> http://www.aswgt.com/welcome.html
2011-10-06T16:23:43 <+Steffanx> Hmpf?
2011-10-06T16:24:15 <+Steffanx> That's not what you meant
2011-10-06T16:24:51 < Laurenceb> lmao trolled
2011-10-06T16:25:12 < Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_antenna
2011-10-06T17:27:44 < Laurenceb> ok its in the headers
2011-10-06T17:28:08 < Laurenceb> theres an additional header to control overall routing inside the packet in mesh mode
2011-10-06T17:28:38 < Laurenceb> so it still uses the hardware header handling, and the inner header handles routing
2011-10-06T17:34:29 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-06T17:37:14 < Laurenceb> bit of a pita imo
2011-10-06T17:37:18 < Laurenceb> less data payload
2011-10-06T17:42:14 <+Steffanx> Only a few bytes..
2011-10-06T17:44:49 < Laurenceb> yeah but im reducing the size to 64 bytes payload
2011-10-06T17:55:50 < Laurenceb>  When you die, you see your life going by in a flash... Steve jobs didn't. Apple doesn't support Flash
2011-10-06T17:56:06 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-06T18:03:12 < Laurenceb> looks like 58bytes of payload using mesh networking
2011-10-06T18:05:12 <@jpa-> hey why don't I have a mesh network and you guys do :(
2011-10-06T18:06:38 < Laurenceb> cuz we know how to nick arduino code
2011-10-06T18:07:37 <@jpa-> hmm.. should i get an arduino too :D
2011-10-06T18:07:51 <+Steffanx> nooononohoogogo
2011-10-06T18:07:52 <@jpa-> but it makes stuff easy and slow.. i want them complex and non-functional
2011-10-06T18:08:18 <+Steffanx> Just download the arduino libs and modify them :P
2011-10-06T18:09:52 <+Steffanx> Soms libs are pretty nice imhp
2011-10-06T18:09:55 <+Steffanx> *imho
2011-10-06T18:09:59 <+Steffanx> Like the rf22 lib
2011-10-06T18:10:15 <+Steffanx> The code could be better sometimes, but it's acceptable
2011-10-06T18:12:25 <@jpa-> in particular i'm wondering if there would exist a software or a hardware solution, or a combination of thereof, that would let me blink a led
2011-10-06T18:12:29 < Laurenceb> yeah at least they are committed
2011-10-06T18:12:37 < Laurenceb> lots of work gone into this lib
2011-10-06T18:13:57 < Laurenceb> im struggling to find enough spare cpu recources on my processor
2011-10-06T18:13:57 < Laurenceb> it can take several ms for the spi to be serviced
2011-10-06T18:13:57 < Laurenceb> so im going to shrink the packets
2011-10-06T18:13:57 < Laurenceb> to avoid buffer underrun/overrun
2011-10-06T18:14:54 < BrainDamage> jpa-: VHDL code that is etched in an ASIC?
2011-10-06T18:15:00 < Laurenceb> http://imgur.com/eEYiT
2011-10-06T18:15:08 < Laurenceb> your pron has arrived
2011-10-06T18:15:21 <+Steffanx> What's that Laurenceb ?
2011-10-06T18:15:26 < Laurenceb> 5mb HDD
2011-10-06T18:15:31 <+Steffanx> Ah
2011-10-06T18:15:32 <+Steffanx> Yay
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2011-10-06T21:43:54 < Laurenceb_> can someone explain midi to me
2011-10-06T21:44:10 < Laurenceb_> whats the basic data, note..instrument and stuff
2011-10-06T21:46:49 < Laurenceb_> oops wrong window - meant to ask #electronics XD
2011-10-06T21:48:21 <@jpa-> it is simple :)
2011-10-06T21:48:34 <@jpa-> 31250 bps serial, note on, note off
2011-10-06T21:57:45 < Thorn> afaik it uses current signaling as opposed to voltage?
2011-10-06T21:58:29 < Laurenceb_> ill run it over usb
2011-10-06T22:04:27 < Laurenceb_> do i need stubs to compile c++  ?
2011-10-06T22:15:26 < Laurenceb_> -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions  ?
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2011-10-06T23:27:52 < dekar__> Laurenceb, if you dislike exceptions
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2011-10-07T00:10:26 <+Steffanx> You don't on a stm32 dekar__ ?
2011-10-07T00:10:56 < dekar__> I don't use c++
2011-10-07T00:11:42 <+Steffanx> If you did..
2011-10-07T00:11:51 < dekar__> I'd probably leave exceptions enabled - I mean several default libraries use them
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2011-10-07T00:29:55 < Laurenceb_> hmm i cant get c++ to compile
2011-10-07T00:30:10 < Laurenceb_> error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__'
2011-10-07T00:30:15 < Laurenceb_> on class
2011-10-07T00:50:23 < Laurenceb_> eww this isnt simple is it
2011-10-07T00:50:31 < Laurenceb_> http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/mixing-c-and-cpp.html
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2011-10-07T12:00:15 < Laurenceb_> anyone used c++ on stm32?
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2011-10-07T12:11:37 <+Steffanx> Nope
2011-10-07T12:11:42 <+Steffanx> Fixed the error yet Laurenceb ?
2011-10-07T13:15:52 < dekar_> Laurenceb, I did
2011-10-07T13:16:13 < dekar_> using the lanchon linkerscript
2011-10-07T13:16:28 <+Steffanx> !google lanchon linkerscript
2011-10-07T13:16:31 <+Steffanx> We need a google bot
2011-10-07T14:20:14 < Laurenceb> heh i see
2011-10-07T14:23:03 < Laurenceb> blerg
2011-10-07T14:34:55 < Laurenceb> i think i have the linker scripts
2011-10-07T14:35:22 < Laurenceb> yeah im using lanchon
2011-10-07T14:37:03 < Laurenceb>  << confused
2011-10-07T15:35:03 <+Steffanx> poor oyu
2011-10-07T15:35:06 <+Steffanx> *you
2011-10-07T15:40:17 < Laurenceb> heh ive got it to work now
2011-10-07T15:40:28 < Laurenceb> up to the point where it discovers its not an arduino
2011-10-07T15:42:01 <+Steffanx> It's very easy to replace the arduino specific functions
2011-10-07T15:42:12 < Laurenceb> i know
2011-10-07T15:42:31 < Laurenceb> not so easy to link c to c++ on stm32 with codesourcery XD
2011-10-07T15:42:48 <+Steffanx> Convert the C++ to C .. it doesn't take that long
2011-10-07T15:43:05 < Laurenceb> doesnt matter, it compiles now - RF22
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2011-10-07T15:45:25 <+Steffanx> And you also got the module?
2011-10-07T15:46:01 <+Steffanx> Which version you plan to use Laurenceb .. 434mhz or 868?
2011-10-07T15:46:37 < Laurenceb> 434 - my own board
2011-10-07T15:46:39 < Laurenceb> bbl
2011-10-07T15:46:44 <+Steffanx> Oh, your own board
2011-10-07T15:50:27 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/tree/master/Hardware/Assembly
2011-10-07T15:52:30 <+Steffanx> I know that board, i just didn't know it had that module
2011-10-07T16:17:50 < Laurenceb> it doesnt, it has si4432
2011-10-07T16:17:57 < Laurenceb> adn my own front end
2011-10-07T16:30:19 <+Steffanx> module = chip :P
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2011-10-07T17:29:52 < Laurenceb> <dongs> ..
2011-10-07T17:29:52 < Laurenceb> <dongs> <Laurenceb> arduino is awesome
2011-10-07T17:29:55 < Laurenceb> ^lol
2011-10-07T17:44:49 <+Steffanx> Uhm?
2011-10-07T19:18:49 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: you've worked with the RF22 code?
2011-10-07T19:18:58 <+Steffanx> Yes
2011-10-07T19:19:16 < Laurenceb> im wondering if a device can change its addess on the mesh netwrok
2011-10-07T19:19:26 <+Steffanx> Oh, that's something i didn't use :0
2011-10-07T19:19:27 <+Steffanx> )
2011-10-07T19:19:37 < Laurenceb> so new clients connect as 255 and are assigned an address
2011-10-07T19:19:38 <+Steffanx> I only used the base class
2011-10-07T19:19:38 < Laurenceb> i see
2011-10-07T19:19:52 <+Steffanx> I didn't need the special features
2011-10-07T19:20:49 <+Steffanx> I think i'll write my own version once.. there are some things in it i don't like
2011-10-07T19:21:06 <+Steffanx> And it'll use another license, as i don't like GPL
2011-10-07T19:22:58 < Laurenceb> hmm
2011-10-07T19:23:05 < Laurenceb> i think this should work
2011-10-07T19:23:26 < Laurenceb> the 255 address will leave a 'trace' in the netwrok
2011-10-07T19:23:39 < Laurenceb> so when a new device attempts to connect things might go wrong
2011-10-07T19:24:10 < Laurenceb> but i think that wont cause catastrophic failure
2011-10-07T19:24:29 < Laurenceb> itll just be like 255 have moved to a new position when the next device attempts to connect
2011-10-07T19:24:48 < Laurenceb> if two devices attempt to connect at the same time one wont be able to
2011-10-07T19:25:05 < Laurenceb> as the server response cant be duplicated
2011-10-07T19:25:11 < Laurenceb> so i think it will work yes
2011-10-07T19:25:52 <+Steffanx> I really have no idea how a mesh netwrok works
2011-10-07T19:26:17 <+Steffanx> I should dig into it a little
2011-10-07T19:26:41 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-10-07T19:26:51 < Laurenceb> ok maybe you can help me with c++
2011-10-07T19:26:58 < Laurenceb> RF22Mesh rf22(CLIENT_ADDRESS);
2011-10-07T19:27:08 < Laurenceb> ^can i just delete that later?
2011-10-07T19:29:31 <+Steffanx> Uhm.. that
2011-10-07T19:29:40 <+Steffanx> 's the constructor, so probably not
2011-10-07T19:30:18 < Laurenceb> i mean the rf22 object
2011-10-07T19:55:52 < Laurenceb> of course i could have multiple servers
2011-10-07T19:56:11 < Laurenceb> but that gets tricky - where do i talk to with the clients
2011-10-07T20:01:40 < Thorn> Laurenceb: it will be autodeleted when control exits the scope it's in
2011-10-07T20:02:27 < Laurenceb> hmm
2011-10-07T20:02:36 < Laurenceb> well its global
2011-10-07T20:05:26 < Thorn> if you want to be able to delete it use a global pointer instead
2011-10-07T20:21:27 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/RF22/ctocpp.cpp
2011-10-07T20:21:38 < Laurenceb> i want to delete rf22
2011-10-07T20:22:25 < Thorn> delete programmatically when you need to?
2011-10-07T20:22:31 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-10-07T20:22:42 < Laurenceb> i connect at ATTACH_POINT
2011-10-07T20:22:52 < Laurenceb> then im assigned a MAC address
2011-10-07T20:23:13 < Laurenceb> so i delete the object and create a new one
2011-10-07T20:23:29 < Thorn> RF22Mesh *rf22; main() { rf22 = new RF22Mesh(ATTACH_POINT); ...... if(time is right) delete rf22; }
2011-10-07T20:23:50 < Laurenceb> i see, thanks
2011-10-07T20:24:47 < Laurenceb> can i use new and delete something in the global scope?
2011-10-07T20:24:48 < Thorn> as you have it now you also construct the object before main() is called. that may be a problem if it needs some resources not yet initalized
2011-10-07T20:25:05 < Laurenceb> its just stuff in ram
2011-10-07T20:25:42 < Laurenceb> problem is main(){} is a c function
2011-10-07T20:26:33 < Thorn> extern "C" delete_rf22() {delete rf22;}
2011-10-07T20:26:53 < Laurenceb> but then the object has to be global
2011-10-07T20:28:10 < Thorn> extern "C" delete_rf22(RF22Mesh *rf22) {delete rf22; rf22 = 0;}
2011-10-07T20:29:30 < Thorn> or maybe extern "C" delete_rf22(void *rf22) {delete static_cast<RF22Mesh *>(rf22); rf22 = 0;}
2011-10-07T20:29:55 < Laurenceb> just a sec ill see what gcc thinks about it
2011-10-07T20:30:46 < Laurenceb> i cant directly delete it
2011-10-07T20:31:53 < Laurenceb> hmm delete will work with a pointer
2011-10-07T20:32:00 < Laurenceb> but the linker cant find delete
2011-10-07T20:32:02 < Thorn> yes. and only a pointer
2011-10-07T20:32:24 < Laurenceb> delete needs a header?
2011-10-07T20:32:34 < Laurenceb> stdlib or something?
2011-10-07T20:32:50 < Thorn> no it's an operator
2011-10-07T20:33:03 < Laurenceb>  undefined reference to `operator delete(void*)'
2011-10-07T20:33:11 < Laurenceb> from the linker
2011-10-07T20:33:18 < Thorn> but it is probably implemented as a library funcion
2011-10-07T20:33:28 < Thorn> don't delete void*
2011-10-07T20:33:38 < Thorn> delete Type*
2011-10-07T20:35:09 < Laurenceb> i fail at c++
2011-10-07T20:35:20 <+Steffanx> Don't use C++ :P
2011-10-07T20:35:22 < Thorn> c++ it hard to succeed at
2011-10-07T20:35:26 <+Steffanx> Convert it to C :P
2011-10-07T20:35:32 < Laurenceb>  delete (RF22Mesh*)&rf22;  <-is that valid c++  ?
2011-10-07T20:35:34 <+Steffanx> Like i did
2011-10-07T20:36:07 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: but ive already got the unmodifed code to compile
2011-10-07T20:36:18 < Laurenceb> im implimenting my network protocol ontop of it now
2011-10-07T20:36:37 < Thorn> T rf22; /*global*/ delete &rf22; is absolutely wrong
2011-10-07T20:36:48 < Thorn> you only delete what you new'ed
2011-10-07T20:36:52 < Laurenceb> oh
2011-10-07T20:36:56 < Laurenceb> yeah
2011-10-07T20:37:39 < Thorn> (even if it weren't global it'd still be wrong)
2011-10-07T20:39:40 < Thorn> with C, you can easily shoot yourself in the foot, but c++ is more like an industrial sawmill
2011-10-07T20:39:47 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-10-07T20:39:54 < Laurenceb> ok im confused now
2011-10-07T20:40:03 < Laurenceb> RF22Mesh* rf=new RF22Mesh rf22(ATTACH_POINT);
2011-10-07T20:40:09 < Laurenceb> i know thats very wrong, but why
2011-10-07T20:40:47 < Thorn> is that in the global scope? you can't have executable code there
2011-10-07T20:41:04 < Thorn> and also: RF22Mesh* rf=new RF22Mesh(ATTACH_POINT);
2011-10-07T20:41:27 < Laurenceb> aha
2011-10-07T20:41:35 < Laurenceb> ok that works now
2011-10-07T20:41:44 < Laurenceb> i knind of understand
2011-10-07T20:41:54 < Laurenceb> but how do i run functions on it?
2011-10-07T20:42:04 < Laurenceb> rf.init() is no longer valid
2011-10-07T20:42:27 < Thorn> rf->init();
2011-10-07T20:42:51 < Laurenceb> oh, the functions are like members of a struct
2011-10-07T20:42:55 < Laurenceb> c++ is weird
2011-10-07T20:43:13 < Thorn> or (*rf).init();
2011-10-07T20:43:27 < Thorn> (just don't show that to anybody)
2011-10-07T20:43:31 < Laurenceb> yeah i see
2011-10-07T20:47:22 < Laurenceb> ctocpp.cpp:(.text+0x4): undefined reference to `operator delete(void*)'
2011-10-07T20:47:26 < Laurenceb> same for new
2011-10-07T20:47:32 < Laurenceb> linker error
2011-10-07T20:49:19 < Laurenceb> not part of codesourcery g++  ?
2011-10-07T20:49:27 < Thorn> I believe they're in libstdc++
2011-10-07T20:49:31 < Thorn> not sure though
2011-10-07T20:49:49 < Laurenceb>  libstdc++.h or something?
2011-10-07T20:50:23 < Thorn> you don't need any .h
2011-10-07T20:50:34 < Thorn> do you link with g++ or gcc?
2011-10-07T20:50:43 < Laurenceb> g++
2011-10-07T20:54:35 < Thorn> that's strange I haven't tried it myself but I'd expect that to work
2011-10-07T20:55:48 < Laurenceb> oh wait make doesnt detect header changes
2011-10-07T20:56:07 < Laurenceb> ok i dont have <new> or <libstdc++>
2011-10-07T20:57:22 < Thorn> I do see libstdc++.a in my install
2011-10-07T20:57:40 < Thorn> <new> is not needed for operator new or delete
2011-10-07T20:58:02 < Laurenceb> ok it must be mny makefile
2011-10-07T20:58:33 < Laurenceb> where do you see libstdc++  ?
2011-10-07T20:59:22 < Thorn> arm-none-eabi/lib
2011-10-07T20:59:58 < Laurenceb> ah yes
2011-10-07T21:00:21 < Thorn> try linking with -lstdc++
2011-10-07T21:02:56 < Laurenceb> eek wtf
2011-10-07T21:03:03 < Laurenceb> 50KiB of code
2011-10-07T21:03:55 < Laurenceb> thats not good
2011-10-07T21:04:04 < Laurenceb> well it compiled i guess :S
2011-10-07T21:04:31 < Laurenceb> isnt there a way to reinitialise objects?
2011-10-07T21:05:19 < Thorn> does your linker script support c++ btw?
2011-10-07T21:07:29 < Laurenceb> dunno
2011-10-07T21:07:33 < Laurenceb> im using manchon
2011-10-07T21:07:36 < Laurenceb> *lanchon
2011-10-07T21:08:25 < Laurenceb> theres got to be a hack
2011-10-07T21:08:37 < Laurenceb> its including the whole library
2011-10-07T21:10:45 < Laurenceb> wait hang on
2011-10-07T21:10:59 < Laurenceb> cant i call the Constructor of an object?
2011-10-07T21:11:10 < Laurenceb> object.constructor    ?
2011-10-07T21:11:24 < Thorn> hardly. look at placement new though
2011-10-07T21:13:57 < Thorn> http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/dtors.html#faq-11.14
2011-10-07T21:17:26 < Laurenceb> ok so there is an address reset function
2011-10-07T21:17:36 < Laurenceb> but i need to work out how to call it
2011-10-07T21:17:59 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/RF22/RF22Mesh.h
2011-10-07T21:18:21 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/RF22/RF22Mesh.cpp
2011-10-07T21:18:29 < Laurenceb> line 21
2011-10-07T21:18:38 < Laurenceb> so i have rf22
2011-10-07T21:18:46 < Laurenceb> which is a mesh class
2011-10-07T21:19:09 < Laurenceb>  the change address function works on a router object
2011-10-07T21:19:32 < Thorn> you mean the constructor?
2011-10-07T21:19:36 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-10-07T21:19:59 < Laurenceb> rf22.RF22Router.etc.etc.etc.AssignAddress(address);  ?
2011-10-07T21:20:44 < Thorn> where's that AssignAddress?
2011-10-07T21:20:45 < Laurenceb> are the other constructed objects part of the rf22  ?
2011-10-07T21:20:51 < Laurenceb> no wait
2011-10-07T21:21:07 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/RF22/RF22Datagram.cpp
2011-10-07T21:21:13 < Laurenceb> line 25
2011-10-07T21:21:20 < Laurenceb> setThisAddress
2011-10-07T21:22:40 < Laurenceb> so i have this chain of objects...
2011-10-07T21:22:49 < Laurenceb> and i want to operate on one at the bottom
2011-10-07T21:22:50 < Thorn> RF22Router is a superclass of RF22Mesh as opposed to a member variable. so no rf22.RF22Router
2011-10-07T21:23:26 < Laurenceb> right
2011-10-07T21:23:51 < Laurenceb> so what does that mean?
2011-10-07T21:24:55 < Laurenceb> how can i call setThisAddress?
2011-10-07T21:25:16 < Thorn> subclass *is a* superclass
2011-10-07T21:25:24 < Thorn> call it directly
2011-10-07T21:26:09 < Laurenceb> this shit is far out maaaann
2011-10-07T21:26:27 < Thorn> did I mention the sawmill? it just drags you in
2011-10-07T21:27:02 < Laurenceb> RF22Datagram.setThisAddress(0x02);
2011-10-07T21:27:04 < Laurenceb> ?
2011-10-07T21:27:26 < Thorn> rf22.setThisAddress(0x02);
2011-10-07T21:27:35 < Laurenceb> what the hell
2011-10-07T21:27:39 < Laurenceb> crazy
2011-10-07T21:27:57 < Laurenceb> o...k..
2011-10-07T21:28:05 < Laurenceb> well i see why people use c++
2011-10-07T21:28:34 < Laurenceb> whats more like it ~8bytes of flash
2011-10-07T21:28:42 < Thorn> or not. I don't see where RF22Datagram comes into the picture
2011-10-07T21:28:58 < Laurenceb> it reassigns the address
2011-10-07T21:29:13 < Laurenceb> datagram sends the packets
2011-10-07T21:29:23 < Laurenceb> without NACK/ACK and stuff
2011-10-07T21:29:52 < Laurenceb> the other stuff sits on top, but the nice thing is packets pass through without being altered
2011-10-07T21:30:04 < Thorn> aha. datagram -> reliabledatahram -> router -> mesh
2011-10-07T21:30:11 < Laurenceb> the various layers just handle ack/nack and addressing
2011-10-07T21:30:13 < Laurenceb> yes
2011-10-07T21:30:27 < Thorn> the first thing you want is to understand the inheritance hierarchy
2011-10-07T21:30:45 < Thorn> so yes, mesh "is-a" datagram
2011-10-07T21:30:52 < Laurenceb> yeah, but im going out for the evening
2011-10-07T21:30:58 < Thorn> not sure if that models the real world or not
2011-10-07T21:31:09 < Laurenceb> so i wont understand anything soon ;)
2011-10-07T21:32:54 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/RF22/ctocpp.cpp
2011-10-07T21:33:00 < Laurenceb> ok so i can reassign the address
2011-10-07T21:33:26 < Laurenceb> so server at 0x00, clients connect at 0xff, and are assigned an address stacking up from 0x01
2011-10-07T21:34:34 < Laurenceb> anyways, im off, thanks for the help
2011-10-07T21:34:51 < Thorn> np
2011-10-07T21:35:35 < Laurenceb> oh btw, code is really small
2011-10-07T21:35:46 < Laurenceb> about 6/7KiB
2011-10-07T21:35:53 < Laurenceb> as opposed at 14 on arduino
2011-10-07T21:36:25 < Thorn> I believe gcc for avr generates inefficient code
2011-10-07T21:36:58 < Thorn> (although its arm code likely isn't particularly efficient either...)
2011-10-07T21:37:19 < Laurenceb> ok im really off, cya
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2011-10-08T01:36:28 < dekar_> Thorn, so x86er gcc is efficient since it doesn't do anything and the actual compilation happens inside the CPU? XD
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2011-10-08T01:53:27 < Thorn> dekar_: I remember Pixar saying that renderman on linux got like 50% performance boost when they switched to intel c++. (and that's worth millions)
2011-10-08T01:54:55 < dekar_> Thorn, ICC had cool things like automatic vectorization and automatic multithreading way earlier than GCC got them
2011-10-08T01:55:08 < dekar_> but usually there isn't that much difference between them
2011-10-08T01:55:48 < dekar_> but well for parallel stuff they probably got an edge
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2011-10-08T01:56:58 < dekar_> those features weren't really needed if programmers used intrinsics as well as multithreading to begin with
2011-10-08T01:59:39 < Laurenceb_> hi
2011-10-08T02:00:41 < dekar_> besides multithreading and instruction set extensions like SIMD there isn't much to do for an x86er compiler though, since the CPU translates everything into some intermediate RISC code and reorders it at will anyway
2011-10-08T02:00:46 < dekar_> Laurenceb, hey
2011-10-08T02:03:25 < dekar_> Laurenceb, that small size is due to thumb
2011-10-08T02:07:08 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, why are you logged in twice anyway? :)
2011-10-08T02:15:57 < dekar_> couldn't we use those stm32f4 to build cheap usb2.0 analyzers?
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2011-10-08T02:47:08 < Laurenceb_> dekar_: one is my work pc
2011-10-08T02:47:21 < Laurenceb_> i leave it turned on all the time
2011-10-08T02:48:47 < dekar_> lol
2011-10-08T02:55:12 < Laurenceb_> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2465464&cid=37644114
2011-10-08T02:55:14 < Laurenceb_> double lol
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2011-10-08T23:00:19 < Laurenceb_> printf(""foo)
2011-10-08T23:00:25 < Laurenceb_> printf("foo")
2011-10-08T23:00:38 < Laurenceb_> ^does the text live in flash?
2011-10-08T23:01:25 <+Steffanx> I don't know how ARM-GCC handles that
2011-10-08T23:01:42 <+Steffanx> It's probably  smart enough to use flash, but ..
2011-10-08T23:03:48 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-10-08T23:04:03 <+Steffanx> Use a VERY VERY large string
2011-10-08T23:04:03 < Laurenceb_> i rewrote printf XD
2011-10-08T23:04:06 <+Steffanx> And see what it does
2011-10-08T23:04:08 <+Steffanx> ?
2011-10-08T23:04:10 < Laurenceb_> ok
2011-10-08T23:05:01 <+Steffanx> You can check with arm-elf-size i think
2011-10-08T23:17:58 < Thorn> Laurenceb_: literal strings are most likely in .text
2011-10-08T23:18:38 < Laurenceb_> which goes where?
2011-10-08T23:18:46 < Thorn> for immutable variables use const, should also put them in .text (or maybe .rodata but I don't think so)
2011-10-08T23:19:12 < Thorn> .text is flash unless you did something creative to your linker script
2011-10-08T23:19:22 < Thorn> *is in flash
2011-10-08T23:20:15 < Laurenceb_> i see
2011-10-08T23:20:19 < Laurenceb_> ah yes the linker
2011-10-08T23:21:28 <+Steffanx> AVR-GCC uses RAM for everything except when you specify it shouldnt
2011-10-08T23:21:34 <+Steffanx> (with PROGMEN)
2011-10-08T23:21:37 <+Steffanx> *M
2011-10-08T23:21:48 < Thorn> there's also __attribute__ ((section(".rodata"))
2011-10-08T23:22:00 < Thorn> or .whatever
2011-10-08T23:22:02 < Laurenceb_> yeah i know
2011-10-08T23:22:07 < Laurenceb_> avr sucks
2011-10-08T23:22:14 <+Steffanx> No way
2011-10-08T23:22:21 < Laurenceb_> heh
2011-10-08T23:25:52 < Thorn> you can use objdump -hSCr to generate a very complete listing of your .elf
2011-10-08T23:28:14 < Laurenceb_> ok, so .bss is my global variables and stuff?
2011-10-08T23:28:35 < Thorn> .bssis uninitialized data
2011-10-08T23:28:58 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2011-10-08T23:28:58 < Thorn> global variables with no initial values go there
2011-10-08T23:29:09 < Laurenceb_> so theres stack and heap stuff to consider
2011-10-08T23:29:32 < Thorn> memory on cm3 = .bss + stack
2011-10-08T23:29:45 < Thorn> heap is going to be a part of .bss
2011-10-08T23:29:58 < Laurenceb_> i see
2011-10-08T23:30:07 < Laurenceb_> im looking at ~6KiB
2011-10-08T23:30:09 < Thorn> and .data too of course (that's in flash but is copied into ram at startup)
2011-10-08T23:30:15 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2011-10-08T23:30:43 < Thorn> heap is just a global uint8_t[HEAPSIZE]
2011-10-08T23:31:04 < Thorn> e.g. with freertos allocators
2011-10-08T23:35:02 < Thorn> .bss is zeroed out at startup. only its size stored in flash
2011-10-08T23:36:07 < Thorn> or more likely start and end addresses
2011-10-08T23:41:41 < Laurenceb_> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201109/errrrr/Pic5.jpg
2011-10-08T23:42:26 < Thorn> I wonder where malloc() and free() that come with codesourcery think their heap is btw
2011-10-08T23:42:42 < Thorn> or you need to implement your own allocators for them
2011-10-08T23:43:48 < Laurenceb_> im using malloc and free
2011-10-08T23:43:51 < Laurenceb_> works ok
2011-10-08T23:43:59 < Laurenceb_> havent investigated how tho :P
2011-10-08T23:44:37 < Laurenceb_> use them to run USGS worldmagneticmodel without eating the ram
2011-10-08T23:44:59 < Thorn> did you need to implement any _functions for them? and what addresses do they return you (in .bss, higher than .bss)?
2011-10-08T23:45:40 < Laurenceb_> no they just worked
2011-10-08T23:45:50 < Laurenceb_> i havent checked the addresses
2011-10-08T23:49:36 < Laurenceb_> havent got the hardware setup to test
2011-10-08T23:50:01 < Laurenceb_> one od thing- the USGS code gave fields in the correct directions but ~5% too weak
2011-10-08T23:50:24 < Laurenceb_> when i removed the high order spherical harmonis that were small
2011-10-08T23:50:30 < Laurenceb_> *harmonics
2011-10-08T23:50:43 < Laurenceb_> but thats a maths problem XD
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2011-10-09T00:43:41 <+Steffanx> What do you need  USGS worldmagneticmodel for Laurenceb_ ?
2011-10-09T00:54:04 < Laurenceb_> for IMU calibration
2011-10-09T01:21:44 <@jpa-> afaik newlib malloc requires sbrk
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2011-10-09T04:12:29 < dekar_> Thorn, Laurenceb you can configure the codesourcery heap by editing the linkerscript
2011-10-09T04:13:20 < dekar_> better make sure the size matches the stm32 you use
2011-10-09T04:13:51 < dekar_> also the newlib implementation they use wastes it really fast, it always allocated multiples of 4k iirc
2011-10-09T04:14:58 < dekar_> so you can only call malloc a few times before it fails
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2011-10-11T15:26:01 < Laurenceb> anyone here used fatfs?
2011-10-11T16:49:36 <@jpa-> yes
2011-10-11T16:58:55 < Laurenceb> nvm i think ive worked it out
2011-10-11T16:59:05 < Laurenceb> i want to use the same spi bus for another device
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2011-10-11T20:55:25 <+izua> good evening
2011-10-11T20:55:35 <@jpa-> evening
2011-10-11T21:01:04 <+Steffanx> Good evening
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2011-10-11T23:39:56 < gnomad> hey Rick, funny to see you here!
2011-10-11T23:40:06 < Rickta59> : )
2011-10-11T23:40:14 < Rickta59> i'm just getting ready
2011-10-11T23:40:20 < gnomad> all: just took deliver of an STM32F Discovery board
2011-10-11T23:40:48 < gnomad> I don't suppose anyone has gotten st-link working under os/x?
2011-10-11T23:57:09  * Laurenceb_ uses serial bootloader in ubuntu
2011-10-11T23:57:17 < Laurenceb_> with python and pyserial
2011-10-11T23:57:32 < Laurenceb_> osx should be similar
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2011-10-12T00:02:50 < gnomad> but as far as native flashing and debugging I think I am SoL under native os/x.
2011-10-12T00:03:23 < gnomad> bootloader is a good general-use option.
2011-10-12T00:03:44 < gnomad> Just wanted to be sure there were no options I was missing.
2011-10-12T00:04:23 <+izua> jtag
2011-10-12T00:06:59 < Rickta59> seems to be lots of conflicting info out there about how to use these devices in linux
2011-10-12T00:07:30 < Rickta59> http://blog.willdonnelly.net/2010/10/02/serial-wire-debugging-the-stm32-via-the-bus-pirate/ .. that link says no st-link for linux
2011-10-12T00:08:13 <+izua> st-link is proprietary. i recall there were some talks about st releasing the specs to be implemented in openocd.
2011-10-12T00:08:38 < Rickta59> https://github.com/texane/stlink .. that seems to be available
2011-10-12T00:11:03 <+izua> hmm, indeed. perhaps it was finally released
2011-10-12T00:11:44  * Rickta59 ordered the STM32F4-Discovery .. 
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2011-10-12T00:51:46 <+Steffanx> Where Rickta59 ?
2011-10-12T00:56:32 <+Steffanx> You didn't 'sample' one Rickta59 ?
2011-10-12T00:56:43 <+izua> hm
2011-10-12T00:57:01 <+Steffanx> hm what?
2011-10-12T00:57:03 <+izua> what's the difference between that family and regular stm32f1
2011-10-12T00:57:07 <+izua> 'regular', etc
2011-10-12T00:57:14 <+Steffanx> Speed?
2011-10-12T00:57:24 <+izua> any extra peripherals?
2011-10-12T00:57:29 <+izua> or other cool stuff?
2011-10-12T00:57:34 <+Steffanx> cortex m4 ..
2011-10-12T00:57:40 < Rickta59> i did sample one .. but wanted to make sure i got one
2011-10-12T00:57:53 <+Steffanx> dsp-ish instructiosn
2011-10-12T00:57:54 < BrainDamage> gnomad: I can give you few links for linux, don't know how much the mac kernel would be compatible
2011-10-12T00:58:09 <+Steffanx> The STM32 F4 series remains pin-to-pin and software compatible with the STM32 F2 series and features more SRAM, peripheral improvements such as full duplex I²S, improved RTC and faster ADCs.
2011-10-12T00:58:19 <+Steffanx> ^^ quote from st
2011-10-12T00:58:34 <+Steffanx> I had some trouble with it on a mac BrainDamage
2011-10-12T00:58:37 <+Steffanx> As in.. doesn't work
2011-10-12T00:58:40 < BrainDamage> gnomad: check out https://code.google.com/p/arm-utilities/ https://github.com/texane/stlink
2011-10-12T00:58:51 < BrainDamage> you tried both of those tools?
2011-10-12T00:58:59 <+Steffanx> The code i've seen uses some scsi code which isn't available on os x
2011-10-12T00:59:55 <+Steffanx> Both seem to use that BrainDamage
2011-10-12T01:00:38 < BrainDamage> kk, too bad :/
2011-10-12T01:00:51 < Rickta59> seems like there is serial debug builtin no?
2011-10-12T01:00:59 <+Steffanx> At least, maybe someone else can make it functional.. i cant
2011-10-12T01:01:16 < BrainDamage> Rickta59: you can use JTAG, it's a fairly standard interface
2011-10-12T01:01:39 <+Steffanx> You can reflash the st-link with some versaloon firmware too
2011-10-12T01:01:48 < Rickta59> versaloon?
2011-10-12T01:01:48 <+Steffanx> but you need another programmer/st-link for that
2011-10-12T01:02:03 < Rickta59> 2 boards?
2011-10-12T01:02:03 <+Steffanx> !google versaloon st-link :)
2011-10-12T01:02:06 < BrainDamage> versaloon is an open source JTAG firmware
2011-10-12T01:02:11 <+Steffanx> And SWD
2011-10-12T01:02:17 <+Steffanx> Which is what the st-link uses
2011-10-12T01:02:43 <+Steffanx> They adapted the versaloon fw a bit to make it functional on the st-link
2011-10-12T01:03:29 < BrainDamage> versaloon + openocd and you'll get gdb integration quite smoothly
2011-10-12T01:03:41 < BrainDamage> I have the same with stlink, but it's very finicky
2011-10-12T01:03:49 < BrainDamage> due to usb protocol abuse
2011-10-12T01:04:35 <+Steffanx> On windows my st-link works fine :)
2011-10-12T01:05:24 <+Steffanx> I just don't like to use windows all the time :P
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2011-10-12T01:06:00 < BrainDamage> I use linux as main os, can't really say it goes very smoothly
2011-10-12T01:06:17 <+Steffanx> No, i tried it on linux too
2011-10-12T01:06:24 <+Steffanx> It gave me error messages all the time
2011-10-12T01:06:50 < Rickta59> is there a stm32f4 101 page?
2011-10-12T01:07:01 <+Steffanx> I think there is
2011-10-12T01:07:11 < Rickta59> how about community?
2011-10-12T01:07:17 < BrainDamage> are the f4 boards available now?
2011-10-12T01:07:22 < BrainDamage> I'd love to get one
2011-10-12T01:07:29 <+Steffanx> You can sample one..
2011-10-12T01:07:33 < Rickta59> yeah mouser or sample
2011-10-12T01:07:33 <+Steffanx> If you are in the US
2011-10-12T01:07:38 < BrainDamage> italy
2011-10-12T01:07:46 <+Steffanx> Then you have no luck
2011-10-12T01:08:02 < BrainDamage> in fact, there's a big st complex like 20km from here, but noo :/
2011-10-12T01:08:08 <+Steffanx> ARgh, this router crashes all the time
2011-10-12T01:08:11 <+Steffanx> Why?!
2011-10-12T01:08:20 < BrainDamage> because fuck you, that's why
2011-10-12T01:09:05 <+Steffanx> At least I can have a wireless connection and utp-connection at the same time
2011-10-12T01:09:12 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-12T01:09:23 < BrainDamage> unshielded twisted pair?
2011-10-12T01:09:43 <+Steffanx> Who needs shielded? :p
2011-10-12T01:10:57 < BrainDamage> what if you want to have your wires run alongside a microwave waveguide? :p
2011-10-12T01:12:15 <+Steffanx> I dont
2011-10-12T01:13:26 <+Steffanx> Only people with brain damage do that
2011-10-12T01:50:26 < gnomad> ST is doing free samples on the F4 board at the moment.  That is how I got mine.
2011-10-12T01:50:42 < gnomad> Rick got me this link:  http://code.google.com/p/stm32flash/
2011-10-12T01:50:51 < gnomad> seems to be the best candidate for os/x
2011-10-12T01:51:21 < gnomad> of course, this is programming only, no debug
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2011-10-13T01:47:19 < Laurenceb_> why am i getting packed attribute ignored?
2011-10-13T01:47:38 < Laurenceb_> extern int16_t Accel_Data_Buffer[3] __attribute__((packed));
2011-10-13T01:51:16 <+Steffanx> GCC doesn't like you
2011-10-13T01:51:44 <+Steffanx> Uhm, you only declare it there? As extern?
2011-10-13T01:54:40 < Laurenceb_> doh
2011-10-13T01:57:25 < Laurenceb_> yeah its not needed on the extern
2011-10-13T01:57:47 <+Steffanx> Problem solved?
2011-10-13T02:03:59 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ ?
2011-10-13T02:04:15 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2011-10-13T02:04:17 < Laurenceb_> thanks
2011-10-13T02:05:00 < Laurenceb_> bbl
2011-10-13T02:05:41  * Steffanx => sleep
2011-10-13T02:06:19 < Laurenceb_> me too XD
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2011-10-14T12:13:07 < grummund> Good morning everyone.
2011-10-14T12:13:52 <+Steffanx> Good morning mr grummund
2011-10-14T12:17:20 < grummund> so... what platform/tool-chain are people using for stm32 development?
2011-10-14T12:18:01 <+Steffanx> I used code sourcery + eclipse on windows.. because the st-link doesn't work with os x
2011-10-14T12:18:12 <+Steffanx> I still have to get a better programmer
2011-10-14T12:18:21 <+Steffanx> *codesourcery's toolchain
2011-10-14T12:18:51 < grummund> is that gcc based?
2011-10-14T12:18:58 <+Steffanx> Yes
2011-10-14T12:19:23 <+Steffanx> CodeSourcery isn't CodeSourcey anymore btw :P
2011-10-14T12:20:25 < grummund> this one? - http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/sourcery-tools/sourcery-codebench/
2011-10-14T12:20:32 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2011-10-14T12:20:56 <+Steffanx> Just the free toolchain, not the IDE
2011-10-14T12:20:57 < grummund> "Try free for 30 days"
2011-10-14T12:21:20 <+Steffanx> https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/subscription?@template=lite
2011-10-14T12:25:55 < grummund> sorry, i don't get it... where does it say "download arm-gcc for Windows here" ?
2011-10-14T12:26:54 <+Steffanx> https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/release1802 there? :P
2011-10-14T12:27:29 <+Steffanx> Not EVERYTHING is supported by that free version iirc
2011-10-14T12:28:39 <+Steffanx> it does work very well though
2011-10-14T12:29:37 < grummund> oh i see they are all for Windows but different *target* OS
2011-10-14T12:30:11 < grummund> is there a better suggestion?
2011-10-14T12:30:15 <+Steffanx> better?
2011-10-14T12:30:19 <+Steffanx> Not that i know of
2011-10-14T12:30:25 < grummund> should i attempt build gcc tool-chain from source?
2011-10-14T12:30:29 <+Steffanx> Keil?
2011-10-14T12:31:07 < grummund> better as in "pre-packaged gcc toolchain"
2011-10-14T12:31:18 <+Steffanx> What's wrong with that codesoucery one? I think 99% of the persons here probably use that one
2011-10-14T12:31:35 < grummund> you said it does work very well though
2011-10-14T12:32:36 <+Steffanx> You can also cheat a little and get a more up to date tool chain
2011-10-14T12:32:46 <+Steffanx> Download the trail and use the tool chain included in that one
2011-10-14T12:32:52 <+Steffanx> *trial
2011-10-14T12:33:03 < grummund> for 30 days only?
2011-10-14T12:33:25 <+Steffanx> That's the limit for the IDE not the tool chain, which is also GCC
2011-10-14T12:33:47 < grummund> ok. rather like Rowley Crossworks then :P
2011-10-14T12:33:53 <+Steffanx> Dekar has a download somewhere, the install script is very ugly..
2011-10-14T12:34:15 <+Steffanx> That one is also GCC based?
2011-10-14T12:34:21 < grummund> yes
2011-10-14T12:36:03 <+Steffanx> You don't care if you have to pay a few thousand $ do you? :P
2011-10-14T12:37:03 < grummund> i do! :)
2011-10-14T12:37:22 <+Steffanx> GCC + Eclipse-ish IDE for 1500$ :S
2011-10-14T12:37:47 < grummund> Crossworks is Eclipse-ish ?
2011-10-14T12:37:50 <+Steffanx> Or isn't that one clipse based?
2011-10-14T12:37:55 <+Steffanx> It is a custom IDE?
2011-10-14T12:38:04 <+Steffanx> It looks eclipse-ish to me :P
2011-10-14T12:38:17 < grummund> it's a terrible IDE, imho... but then most are, imho. :P
2011-10-14T12:38:56 <+Steffanx> Visual Studio ftw? :P
2011-10-14T12:39:44 <+Steffanx> btw, i changed my plans
2011-10-14T12:39:57 <+Steffanx> I'm going for 25 LED's on a 10 by 10 cm PCB now :P
2011-10-14T12:40:05  * grummund could mention emacs but let's not go there... i'm interested more about the toolchain :P
2011-10-14T12:40:26 <+Steffanx> To make the clock larger. I can use a laser cutter to cut the front panel :)
2011-10-14T12:40:34 < grummund> 25x25 ?
2011-10-14T12:40:42 <+Steffanx> No, 5 x 5
2011-10-14T12:40:44 < grummund> Dutch needs more chars?
2011-10-14T12:41:07 < grummund> oh, 5 x 5. wow. how so?
2011-10-14T12:41:23 <+Steffanx> Sorry, me tries to clarify himself
2011-10-14T12:42:08 <+Steffanx> The size will be 30x30 cm, so 9 tiles of 10 by 10 :)
2011-10-14T12:42:17 < grummund> ah, ok :)
2011-10-14T12:42:41 < grummund> so 15 x 15 LEDs overall
2011-10-14T12:42:44 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2011-10-14T12:42:56 <+Steffanx> Anyway, the toolchain… dekar seems to be the expert :)
2011-10-14T12:43:05 < grummund> uC on each board, or waht?...
2011-10-14T12:43:42 <+Steffanx> No, just two 16 channel i2c LED drivers/board
2011-10-14T12:44:06 <+Steffanx> I'm not going for rgb yet
2011-10-14T12:44:57 <+Steffanx> As 225 SMD RGB LED's are expensive
2011-10-14T12:45:18 < grummund> why not make smaller boards then? with only 1 driver IC per board, but more boards
2011-10-14T12:46:07 <+Steffanx> Smaller boards as in 5x5?
2011-10-14T12:47:05 < grummund> hmm, let me think...
2011-10-14T12:49:53 <+Steffanx> I'm just 'limited' by the amount of LED's in each direction (and the total size of the clock)
2011-10-14T12:50:18 <+Steffanx> 16 x 16 characters, is only dividable by 4 … 15 only by 5 or 3
2011-10-14T12:50:20 < grummund> we (I) are confusing physical size with num LEDs
2011-10-14T12:50:44 <+Steffanx> Otherwise the clock would be waaay to large
2011-10-14T12:50:56 <+Steffanx> *too
2011-10-14T12:53:08 < grummund> why 10cm panels?  is that the next breakpoint in pricing?
2011-10-14T12:53:17 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2011-10-14T12:53:26 <+Steffanx> seeedstudio :)
2011-10-14T12:53:39 <+Steffanx> 5x5 is cheap, 10x10 a little bit more expensive
2011-10-14T12:53:44 <+Steffanx> 20x20 is too much
2011-10-14T12:54:08 <+Steffanx> Too much for a hobby project
2011-10-14T12:54:26 <+Steffanx> As in .. 129$
2011-10-14T12:55:17 < grummund> so 9 x 10cm panels is cheaper than 16 x 5cm panels?
2011-10-14T12:55:57 <+Steffanx> 16 x 5 = 20 x5 so yes
2011-10-14T12:56:22 <+Steffanx> only 10$ so that's acceptable
2011-10-14T12:57:25 <+Steffanx> I mean 20$ :)
2011-10-14T12:57:46 < grummund> 9 x 10cm boards, 18 x IC, 225 x LED
2011-10-14T12:57:48 < grummund> vs.
2011-10-14T12:58:06 < grummund> 16 x 5cm boards, 16 x IC, 156 x LEDs
2011-10-14T12:58:14 < grummund> *256
2011-10-14T12:59:01 <+Steffanx> Yes yes, but .. 9 x 10 cm with how many led's on one?
2011-10-14T12:59:08 <+Steffanx> Not 225 i guess? :)
2011-10-14T12:59:42 < grummund> 225 / 9 = 25 :P
2011-10-14T12:59:52 < grummund> 256 / 16 = 16
2011-10-14T13:00:19 <+Steffanx> Ofourse, :)
2011-10-14T13:01:37 < grummund> 12 x 12 character matrix is not enough?
2011-10-14T13:01:37 <+Steffanx> I should draw it for myself, just to clarify some things
2011-10-14T13:02:05 <+Steffanx> As i want it to be a 'square shaped' clock
2011-10-14T13:02:39 <+Steffanx> (another requirement :P )
2011-10-14T13:03:44 < grummund> 12 x 12 is square
2011-10-14T13:04:13 <+Steffanx> True, but that's too small
2011-10-14T13:04:43 < grummund> small physically, or not enough chars?
2011-10-14T13:05:26 <+Steffanx> Not enough characters, i now have a 15x15 design in excel with only ~30 empty spots
2011-10-14T13:05:45 < grummund> ok
2011-10-14T13:05:52 <+Steffanx> Some of them are necessary.. spacing between words
2011-10-14T13:07:14 < grummund> you could still use 5cm boards with 25 LEDs each, or is that too small physically?
2011-10-14T13:07:34 < grummund> 9 boards
2011-10-14T13:07:44 <+Steffanx> Yeah, 15x15 cm is a little small
2011-10-14T13:08:02 <+Steffanx> 30x30 is nicers, when 10x10cm boards are used
2011-10-14T13:10:33 <+Steffanx> Anyway, i'll try to draw some options and make choice :)
2011-10-14T13:10:35 <+Steffanx> Ty anyway
2011-10-14T13:18:04 <+izua> hey
2011-10-14T13:18:17 <+izua> what are you guys designing
2011-10-14T13:18:34 < grummund> Steffanx is making a world clock
2011-10-14T13:21:39 < grummund> izua: which platform/tool-chain do you use?
2011-10-14T13:22:06 <+izua> codesourcery on windows and linux, with vim and a makefile from dekar, which i hacked a bit
2011-10-14T13:22:24 <+izua> on linux i've done some experimenting with a custom built arm crosscompiler, but no, just no.
2011-10-14T13:22:49 < grummund> ok
2011-10-14T13:22:53 <+Steffanx> Not a world clock grummund
2011-10-14T13:22:53 < grummund> thanks
2011-10-14T13:22:56 <+Steffanx> A word clock :P
2011-10-14T13:23:25 < grummund> heh. did i say i was confused? :P
2011-10-14T13:24:16 <+izua> like the one which says ONETWOFIVE
2011-10-14T13:24:19 <+izua> SEVENNINE
2011-10-14T13:24:27 <+izua> and lights up only SOME leds?
2011-10-14T13:24:31 <+Steffanx> Yep
2011-10-14T13:24:37 < BrainDamage> I'm running a self compiled gcc 4.6
2011-10-14T13:24:48 <+izua> how do you deal with leds that are never lit
2011-10-14T13:24:57 <+Steffanx> Ignore them izua
2011-10-14T13:24:57 < BrainDamage> apparently arch had some patches that makes it work fine with gcc 4.6
2011-10-14T13:25:04 <+izua> say SEVEN(ALEPH)NINE
2011-10-14T13:25:10 <+izua> will you ever light the aleph?
2011-10-14T13:25:26 < grummund> arch?
2011-10-14T13:25:34 <+Steffanx> Maybe.. maybe i'll use it as LED Matrix to show other info izua
2011-10-14T13:25:57 <+Steffanx> So i want to make all LED's controlable
2011-10-14T13:27:23 <+izua> any mech prototypes/cad?
2011-10-14T13:27:40 <+izua> will the lights be simply a mask over a diffuser?
2011-10-14T13:27:45 <+izua> s/lights/letters?
2011-10-14T13:27:52 <+Steffanx> I'm not sure yet
2011-10-14T13:27:59 < BrainDamage> arch linux
2011-10-14T13:28:13 < BrainDamage> it has a package management system to auto compile certain programs
2011-10-14T13:28:34 <+Steffanx> I can use a laser cutter or adhesive foil izua .. i'm not sure which option i'll use izua
2011-10-14T13:28:56 < grummund> BrainDamage: ah, ok.
2011-10-14T13:29:10 <+izua> i wonder if it can be done with a single optical solution
2011-10-14T13:29:19 <+Steffanx> Beamer :P
2011-10-14T13:29:26 <+izua> do you know how they do the engravings in those 3D crystal cubes?
2011-10-14T13:29:46 < grummund> BrainDamage: are you targetting an ARM-Linux platform, or bare metal hardware?
2011-10-14T13:29:46 <+Steffanx> I don't exactly know how it works, but i've seen it
2011-10-14T13:30:16 <+izua> yeah, some sort of 'optical multiplexing' might work?
2011-10-14T13:30:41 <+izua> basically have x+y leds, and the letter at x,y will light up when there's enough light on it
2011-10-14T13:31:28 < BrainDamage> grummund: bare metal
2011-10-14T13:31:53 < BrainDamage> the package was for an arm-none-eabi crosscompiler
2011-10-14T13:32:29 < grummund> so you use Arch Linux as development platform?
2011-10-14T13:32:40 < BrainDamage> yup
2011-10-14T13:32:52 < grummund> and which c library, may i ask?
2011-10-14T13:33:47 < BrainDamage> you mean as support lib?
2011-10-14T13:33:53 < BrainDamage> or c's core?
2011-10-14T13:33:53 <+Steffanx> I've no idea how that would/should work izua
2011-10-14T13:34:13 < grummund> well both i sppose
2011-10-14T13:34:56 < BrainDamage> c's core, it compiled automatically libc along the crosscompiler, for helper lib I use https://github.com/esden/libopencm3
2011-10-14T13:35:00 < grummund> i mean the library license conditions are important if one wants to redistribute stuff, perhaps in binary form.
2011-10-14T13:36:05 < BrainDamage> that lib is GPLV3, if you plan to do commercial stuff with it, you'll be forced to make source available along binary
2011-10-14T13:36:13 <+izua> distributing a controller that does something, without any way of copying it is hardly distributing a binary
2011-10-14T13:36:23 <+izua> i bet dekar's inner lawyer sense is tingling right now.
2011-10-14T13:36:29 < grummund> yeah, so i guess you are using GNU C library
2011-10-14T13:37:00 <+izua> i don't know - is it really such a problem?
2011-10-14T13:37:18 <+izua> since you'd be distributing a system executing your binary, not the binary itself.
2011-10-14T13:37:24 < grummund> problem? i dunno... but it's important to understand! ;)
2011-10-14T13:37:38 <+izua> as in against its license
2011-10-14T13:37:39 < BrainDamage> izua: I meant distributing the firmware, ofc IANAL, so if anyone has a better clue, it's welcome
2011-10-14T13:38:34 < grummund> what about for example if you release binary firmware upgrade
2011-10-14T13:46:11 < grummund> No-one uses: http://www.gnuarm.com/  ??
2011-10-14T13:46:20 < grummund> "Last update: 2006-08-03"
2011-10-14T13:46:32 <+Steffanx> hehe
2011-10-14T13:50:02 < grummund> BrainDamage: was arm-gcc easy to build from source?
2011-10-14T13:50:25 < BrainDamage> as I said, arch has system to automate compilation of certain packages
2011-10-14T13:50:38 < grummund> ah right
2011-10-14T13:50:45 < BrainDamage> I run yaourt gcc-arm-none
2011-10-14T13:50:56 < BrainDamage> and after couple questions, it ran by itself
2011-10-14T13:51:19 <+izua> emerge > *
2011-10-14T13:51:33 <+izua> well, if you don't account for speed
2011-10-14T13:51:56 < BrainDamage> izua: it works quite similar to emerge
2011-10-14T13:52:04 < BrainDamage> it doesn't have the useflags
2011-10-14T13:52:26 < BrainDamage> I don't want a distro where I have to compile everything, it's too tedious
2011-10-14T13:52:45 < BrainDamage> I tried gentoo for a while, but after few weeks I removed
2011-10-14T13:52:51 <+izua> myeah, i'm figuring this out too
2011-10-14T13:53:01 <+izua> but then again, i don't use linux for desktop stuff, so it's not really a burden
2011-10-14T13:53:33 < BrainDamage> yes, if it's a use case where the packages don't have to be updated, gentoo is very cool
2011-10-14T13:53:40 < BrainDamage> like a server, or a dedicated machine
2011-10-14T13:54:00 <+izua> well, updating them kills all the fun
2011-10-14T13:54:54 <+izua> which reminds me
2011-10-14T13:54:58 <+izua> i should emerge --sync
2011-10-14T13:55:29  * grummund uses Debian everywhere... except perversly for the desktop :-/
2011-10-14T13:56:20 <+izua> m,yeah, debian is neat
2011-10-14T13:56:32 <+izua> pretty clean and organized, except really lagged behind
2011-10-14T13:56:45 < BrainDamage> unstable is ok-ish
2011-10-14T13:56:56 < BrainDamage> for a desktop
2011-10-14T13:57:12 <+Steffanx> ok-ish is not ok :P
2011-10-14T13:57:34 < BrainDamage> I don't like the supernazi policies about open source source vs nonfree vs free but license is still bothering me
2011-10-14T13:57:38 < BrainDamage> hence the -ish
2011-10-14T13:57:55 < BrainDamage> I bet they still hold a grudge on firefox
2011-10-14T13:58:05 <+izua> not sure what they did with firefox
2011-10-14T13:58:17 <+Steffanx> Who uses firefox anyway? :)
2011-10-14T13:58:17 <+izua> what was the deal?
2011-10-14T13:58:33 <+izua> people who don't use macs? :P
2011-10-14T13:58:37 < BrainDamage> firefox license forbids you to use the logo & official name if you alter consistently the program
2011-10-14T13:58:54 < BrainDamage> at beginning, they were so pissed they forked the project
2011-10-14T13:59:02 <+izua> iceweasel!
2011-10-14T13:59:09 < BrainDamage> nowdays they simply take the mainstream, and patch it
2011-10-14T13:59:17 < BrainDamage> ofc by patching, they still have to rebrand it
2011-10-14T13:59:31 < BrainDamage> but it's not a separate development fork entirely
2011-10-14T13:59:36 <+Steffanx> I don't use Safari either izua
2011-10-14T13:59:45 < BrainDamage> telnet ftw
2011-10-14T13:59:53 <+Steffanx> Safari in OS X Lion is buggy/memory-eating-shit
2011-10-14T14:00:04 <+Steffanx> So I use the other webkit based browser
2011-10-14T14:00:11 < BrainDamage> there's tons of them
2011-10-14T14:00:17 < BrainDamage> not just chrome/chromium
2011-10-14T14:00:18 <+Steffanx> There's is only one 'bigger' one
2011-10-14T14:00:35 < BrainDamage> ah, so you mean konqueror :p
2011-10-14T14:00:40 <+izua> i like firefox because a) noscript with whitelisting
2011-10-14T14:00:43 < BrainDamage> or epiphany?
2011-10-14T14:00:47 <+Steffanx> Chrome ofcourse
2011-10-14T14:00:54 < BrainDamage> I was joking
2011-10-14T14:00:59 <+Steffanx> Or I sometimes use Opera
2011-10-14T14:00:59 <+izua> before that, i had a vm just for unsafe browsing
2011-10-14T14:01:05 < BrainDamage> there's several projects which are relevant which uses webkit
2011-10-14T14:01:18 <+izua> and b) firebug, epic, instant webstuff debugger
2011-10-14T14:01:27 <+izua> not sure if there are replacements for these
2011-10-14T14:01:34 <+Steffanx> Firebug.. sort of
2011-10-14T14:01:50 < BrainDamage> btw, I had clashes with debian myself
2011-10-14T14:02:09 < BrainDamage> one of the projects I work with is GPL, and uses libtorrent-rasterbar
2011-10-14T14:02:10 <+Steffanx> Yay?
2011-10-14T14:02:16 < BrainDamage> libt is BSD
2011-10-14T14:02:40 < BrainDamage> but one of the libs that libt uses is a ssl lib that somehow clashes with gpl unless you add a clause
2011-10-14T14:02:53 <+Steffanx> Yay
2011-10-14T14:02:54 < BrainDamage> they wanted for me to contact all the contributors to the project to relicense it
2011-10-14T14:03:11 < BrainDamage> which means 30-50 people
2011-10-14T14:03:30 < BrainDamage> for half of them I don't even have contact details
2011-10-14T14:03:34 <+Steffanx> :D
2011-10-14T14:03:51 <+Steffanx> The world of open source :)
2011-10-14T14:04:07 <+Steffanx> *'open'
2011-10-14T14:04:37 < grummund> http://www.yagarto.de/  - anyone tried that?
2011-10-14T14:05:06 < BrainDamage> not personally, but my classmate does on mac
2011-10-14T14:05:11 < BrainDamage> and uses stm32 as well
2011-10-14T14:06:05 <+Steffanx> I think i tried it on os x
2011-10-14T14:06:52 <+Steffanx> Still need a proper programmer
2011-10-14T14:06:59 <+Steffanx> Like a versaloon or something like that
2011-10-14T14:09:16  * grummund has the Olimex ARM-USB-OCD
2011-10-14T14:09:48 < BrainDamage> obsessive compulsive disorder?
2011-10-14T14:10:03 < grummund> that too
2011-10-14T14:11:13 < BrainDamage> AutoRegressiveMobileaverage-UniversalSerialBus-ObsessiveCompulsiveDisorder, now that's an interesting condition
2011-10-14T14:11:38 <+Steffanx> Says the one with BrainDamage
2011-10-14T14:12:18 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: I am BrainDamage, not BrainDamageD
2011-10-14T14:12:34 <+Steffanx> Yeah but you do have BrainDamage
2011-10-14T14:12:48 <+izua> or maybe he makes everyone around him get brain damage
2011-10-14T14:13:10 <+Steffanx> That's another option
2011-10-14T14:19:42 < grummund> It would be an interesting excercise to build gcc and newlib from scratch...
2011-10-14T14:19:54 < grummund> but maybe i should start with http://www.yagarto.de/
2011-10-14T14:20:13 <+Steffanx> Have fun
2011-10-14T14:22:42 <+izua> http://imgur.com/UqEEl
2011-10-14T14:40:47 <+Steffanx> It's true, but the text is silly imho
2011-10-14T14:43:04 <+Steffanx> It's just how we and the media work..
2011-10-14T14:43:05 < BrainDamage> I think it's wrong to bring up jobs, it would still mean shadowing ritchie
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2011-10-14T14:43:50 <+Steffanx> And it's not true they completely ignored it…
2011-10-14T14:44:10 < BrainDamage> here it's not mentioned in any relevant news source :/
2011-10-14T14:44:28 < BrainDamage> at least those that I check
2011-10-14T14:44:33 <+Steffanx> Here a little, even a big radio station had a 'little' talk about it
2011-10-14T14:44:50 < Laurenceb_> about what?
2011-10-14T14:45:19 <+Steffanx> The R of K&R :P
2011-10-14T14:45:36 < BrainDamage> http://i.imgur.com/lFAxY.png
2011-10-14T14:46:25 < Laurenceb_> ah
2011-10-14T14:49:04 <+Steffanx> ha
2011-10-14T14:49:14  * grummund wonders if Mr K. feels uncomfortable at all now...
2011-10-14T14:49:51 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2011-10-14T14:50:09 < grummund> like if others are wondering how long the "other half of K&R" will last
2011-10-14T14:52:07 <+Steffanx> I don't
2011-10-14T14:52:27 <+Steffanx> I can say.. " I don't care" .
2011-10-14T14:53:14 <+Steffanx> All i can say to people like that is "Thank you", and go on :)
2011-10-14T14:54:31 < grummund> true. there comes a point though where fame is how long you live not what you did
2011-10-14T14:54:56 < grummund> like "oldest survivor of WWI or WWII" for example
2011-10-14T14:55:24 <+Steffanx> True, but there are  many people who became more popular after they die.. most of them are artists (  :S )
2011-10-14T14:56:05 <+Steffanx> Anyway, life goes on :)
2011-10-14T14:56:13 < grummund> indeed
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2011-10-14T17:45:06 <@jpa-> i need ~500 lines of code
2011-10-14T17:45:19 <+Steffanx> Code or text?
2011-10-14T17:45:43 <@jpa-> the stuff that makes my box do something
2011-10-14T17:47:00 <+Steffanx> cat /dev/random > codeForJpa.c
2011-10-14T17:47:00 <+Steffanx> ?
2011-10-14T17:47:02 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-14T17:48:38 <@jpa-> won't compile :(
2011-10-14T17:48:58 <+Steffanx> Poor you
2011-10-14T17:49:02 <+Steffanx> You use the wrong compiler
2011-10-14T17:55:04 < BrainDamage> make it binary then
2011-10-14T18:06:12 <@jpa-> waiiiiit... how the heck i'm supposed to develop this?
2011-10-14T18:06:33 <@jpa-> it's a PIC, i have no debugger, no debug leds, no debug uart...
2011-10-14T18:07:15 <+Steffanx> Uhm jpa- ?
2011-10-14T18:08:41 <@jpa-> uhm indeed
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2011-10-14T18:18:22 <+Steffann> Grrr
2011-10-14T18:18:30 <@jpa-> mrrrr
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2011-10-14T18:26:34 <+izua> Lrrr
2011-10-14T18:26:41 <+izua> (omicron persei 8)
2011-10-14T18:27:07 <+izua> jpa-: pics are wonderful
2011-10-14T18:27:09 <+izua> they are cheap and
2011-10-14T18:27:11 <+izua> aaaand
2011-10-14T18:27:12 <+izua> cheap
2011-10-14T18:27:19 <+izua> and they have a hardware stack of 8 levels!
2011-10-14T18:27:24 <@jpa-> they are simple
2011-10-14T18:27:31 <+izua> the memory is banked!
2011-10-14T18:27:34 <@jpa-> no reading 1000+ pages of reference manual :)
2011-10-14T18:27:36 <+izua> and some pages are common on all banks
2011-10-14T18:27:39 <+izua> well
2011-10-14T18:27:49 <+izua> you could have paid $1 more and have gotten an avr
2011-10-14T18:28:10 <@jpa-> yeah, if only i had made that decision 10 years ago
2011-10-14T18:28:10 <+izua> at least the env+hardware is sane, even on the low cost ones
2011-10-14T18:28:21 <@jpa-> nowadays i can't bother to switch sides
2011-10-14T18:28:31 <+izua> it's really not that difficult
2011-10-14T18:28:41 <+izua> for example
2011-10-14T18:28:48 <+izua> how C-like is your C compiler?
2011-10-14T18:29:01 <+izua> i've went through several and have found flaws in each and every one :D
2011-10-14T18:29:14 <@jpa-> so have i
2011-10-14T18:29:49  * izua is currently working with mikroelectronica's one
2011-10-14T18:30:04 <@jpa-> but yeah.. i would have to buy a bunch of AVR's, learn the assembler, buy a programming device and learn the quirks
2011-10-14T18:30:28 <+izua> you don't really have to learn assembler
2011-10-14T18:30:33 <+izua> and seriously, if you know pic assembly
2011-10-14T18:30:38 <+izua> avr asm will be a breeze
2011-10-14T18:30:49 <+izua> you have 32 registers for staters!
2011-10-14T18:30:52 <+izua> and a stack pointer
2011-10-14T18:30:53 <@jpa-> a breeze like any other assembly?
2011-10-14T18:30:54 <@jpa-> sure
2011-10-14T18:31:05 <@jpa-> it is not like i couldn't do it.. i just can't bother :D
2011-10-14T18:31:06 <+izua> (a real stack pointer, into ram, which can overwrite your ram and so on)
2011-10-14T18:31:13 <+izua> i'm trying to motivate you etc
2011-10-14T18:31:22 <+izua> pics are horrible
2011-10-14T18:31:24 <+izua> but.. they are cheap.
2011-10-14T18:31:31 <@jpa-> i have stm32
2011-10-14T18:31:34 <+izua> i still use them for simple stuff ._.
2011-10-14T18:31:41 <+izua> if only..
2011-10-14T18:31:55 <+izua> i wish i could solder and make pcbs at home to solder tqfp-0.5 on 'em
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2011-10-14T19:02:25 < Rickta59> so i have ubuntu one of those stm32vl boards  .. plugged it in .. it shows up
2011-10-14T19:02:45 < Rickta59> i compiled the texane-stlink thing
2011-10-14T19:03:11 < Rickta59> but when I try to connect to it ..
2011-10-14T19:03:14 < Rickta59> get this:
2011-10-14T19:03:15 < Rickta59> *** stlink_open [/dev/sg1] ***
2011-10-14T19:03:15 < Rickta59> Error: the device /dev/sg1 is not a stlink
2011-10-14T19:03:15 < Rickta59>        VID: got f3fd expect 0483
2011-10-14T19:03:15 < Rickta59>        PID: got 6473 expect 3744
2011-10-14T19:04:32 <+Steffanx> Try a different device?
2011-10-14T19:04:45 < Rickta59> yeah  .. doesn't seem to be any of the sg devices
2011-10-14T19:05:05 < Rickta59> it seems to show up as a mass storage device with 3 links
2011-10-14T19:05:30 < Rickta59> SGS Thomson is ST?
2011-10-14T19:06:39 <+izua> well, the st-link should be a msc device
2011-10-14T19:07:50 <+izua> so far so good. so far so good i guess :D
2011-10-14T19:08:14 <+izua> check if multiple devices are created (maybe it's a composite usb device)
2011-10-14T19:09:02 <@jpa-> Rickta59: what id does lsusb show for it?
2011-10-14T19:09:36 < Rickta59> $ lsusb | grep SG
2011-10-14T19:09:36 < Rickta59> Bus 001 Device 124: ID 0483:3744 SGS Thomson Microelectronics
2011-10-14T19:10:11 <@jpa-> ok, so the matter is just that /dev/sg1 is wrong
2011-10-14T19:10:32 < Rickta59> http://i53.tinypic.com/jaghn6.png
2011-10-14T19:10:36 <@jpa-> check which of the /dev/sg* devices disappears when you unplug it
2011-10-14T19:11:07 <+Steffanx> Cant you see with dmesg which device it is?
2011-10-14T19:11:09 <@jpa-> so did you try /dev/sdg?
2011-10-14T19:12:46 < Rickta59> root@ubuntu:~/Downloads/texane-stlink-c2a0e91# ./build/st-util 1234 /dev/sdg
2011-10-14T19:12:46 < Rickta59> *** stlink_open [/dev/sdg] ***
2011-10-14T19:12:46 < Rickta59> error opening device: /dev/sdg: Read-only file system
2011-10-14T19:12:59 < Rickta59> root@ubuntu:~/Downloads/texane-stlink-c2a0e91# ./build/st-util 1234 /dev/sdg1
2011-10-14T19:12:59 < Rickta59> *** stlink_open [/dev/sdg1] ***
2011-10-14T19:13:00 < Rickta59> error opening device: /dev/sdg1: No such file or directory
2011-10-14T19:13:00 < Rickta59> Error: could not open stlink device
2011-10-14T19:14:27 < Rickta59> from dmesg
2011-10-14T19:14:28 < Rickta59> usb 1-6.4: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 126
2011-10-14T19:14:28 < Rickta59> [1284203.690955] scsi11 : usb-storage 1-6.4:1.0
2011-10-14T19:14:28 < Rickta59> [1284204.692962] scsi 11:0:0:0: Direct-Access     STM32                          PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
2011-10-14T19:14:28 < Rickta59> [1284204.693817] sd 11:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg8 type 0
2011-10-14T19:14:28 < Rickta59> [1284204.694946] sd 11:0:0:0: [sdg] 64000 512-byte logical blocks: (32.7 MB/31.2 MiB)
2011-10-14T19:14:29 < Rickta59> [1284204.695449] sd 11:0:0:0: [sdg] Write Protect is on
2011-10-14T19:14:29 < Rickta59> [1284204.695454] sd 11:0:0:0: [sdg] Mode Sense: 03 00 80 00
2011-10-14T19:14:30 < Rickta59> [1284204.695458] sd 11:0:0:0: [sdg] Assuming drive cache: write through
2011-10-14T19:14:30 < Rickta59> [1284204.788072] usb 1-6.4: reset full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 126
2011-10-14T19:14:31 < Rickta59> [1284204.988077] usb 1-6.4: reset full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 126
2011-10-14T19:14:31 < Rickta59> [1284205.188089] usb 1-6.4: reset full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 126
2011-10-14T19:15:07 < Rickta59> does the device need to be mounted ? I've tried it both ways
2011-10-14T19:15:29 < Rickta59> or mounted rw?
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2011-10-14T19:26:25 <@jpa-> Rickta59: it is /dev/Sg8
2011-10-14T19:26:29 <@jpa-> */dev/sg8
2011-10-14T19:26:42 <@jpa-> 19:14:28 < Rickta59> [1284204.693817] sd 11:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg8 type 0
2011-10-14T19:27:16 < Rickta59> doh .. thanks .. that did it yay!
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2011-10-14T19:27:33 <+Steffanx> dmesg saved your day :)
2011-10-14T19:27:52 < Rickta59> it did at that
2011-10-14T19:28:05 < Rickta59> thanks .. now to figure out the gcc thing
2011-10-14T19:29:45 < grummund> Do any of the Linux distros supply pre-built gcc toolchain?
2011-10-14T19:30:41 < Rickta59> not sure, i'm starting with the codesourcery eabi thing
2011-10-14T19:40:56 < grummund> Hmm, anyone know about "BuildRoot" ?
2011-10-14T19:41:41 < grummund> can it be used to build tool-chain to target bare metal hardware (not embedded linux) ?
2011-10-14T19:42:08 < Rickta59> are you asking about BuildRoot in gcc?
2011-10-14T19:42:35 < grummund> http://buildroot.uclibc.org/ <-- this
2011-10-14T19:42:52 < Rickta59> ah .. no idea
2011-10-14T19:43:06 < Rickta59> i thought you were asking about the environment variable in gcc build scripts
2011-10-14T19:43:35 < Rickta59> seems like that one is all about building custom linux distros
2011-10-14T19:43:53 < grummund> i think so.
2011-10-14T19:44:33 <@jpa-> there are a bunch of stm32 "buildroot" scripts going around
2011-10-14T19:45:05 <@jpa-> though you just need binutils, gcc and gdb so it is not that much of work to do it manually either
2011-10-14T19:45:34 < grummund> and some variant of libc presumably
2011-10-14T19:48:45 < grummund> jpa-: may i ask which platform/tool-chain you use?
2011-10-14T19:52:45 <@jpa-> codesourcery
2011-10-14T19:53:02 <@jpa-> and a hacked klibc for libc
2011-10-14T21:17:55 < Rickta59> so if i spend a bunch of time learning the stm32vl device .. is that applicable to all cortex-m3 chips?
2011-10-14T21:52:41 <@jpa-> to all stm32 chips atleast
2011-10-14T21:52:58 <@jpa-> the cortex-m3 chips from other manufacturers have different kinds of peripherals
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2011-10-14T23:10:42 <@jpa-> look mom, no comments! https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/gpstracker/softuart.asm
2011-10-14T23:22:55 < Rickta59> so my lack of finding any stlink v2 tools on ubuntu can be chalked up to the fact that people use something else?
2011-10-14T23:24:48 <@jpa-> what is stlink v2?
2011-10-14T23:25:00 <@jpa-> i do use stlink on ubuntu with the vl32discovery
2011-10-14T23:25:08 < Rickta59> the firmware/hw on the stm32f4 and the stm32l boards
2011-10-14T23:25:19 < Rickta59> yeah the stlink software works with the stm32vl board
2011-10-14T23:25:22 <@jpa-> ah
2011-10-14T23:25:47 <@jpa-> connect the stm32vl swd to your other board :P
2011-10-14T23:25:57 < Rickta59> i had thought of doing that
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2011-10-15T00:17:48 <+Steffanx> EQKLTt1
2011-10-15T00:18:20 <+Steffanx> Yay
2011-10-15T00:18:29 <+Steffanx> The password of my uni online stuff
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2011-10-15T04:55:15 < Rickta59> geez and I thought the 430 stuff moved quickly
2011-10-15T04:55:39 < Rickta59> i see there were commits today related to the stlink v2 protocol for the texane/stlink thing
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2011-10-16T16:38:38 < grummund> ah, Cygwin has arm-elf-gcc, binutils and newlib.
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2011-10-16T18:45:59 < Rickta59> with the STML32 Value Line is there something I can flip on to have the system clock output on one of the pins?
2011-10-16T18:46:27 < Rickta59> or more specfically how do I get it to run at 24MHz
2011-10-16T18:50:10 <@jpa-> Rickta59: whatabout the pin suspiciously named "Main Clock Output"?
2011-10-16T18:50:19 <@jpa-> or MCO
2011-10-16T18:50:44 < Rickta59> thanks i'll poke around for that
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2011-10-17T00:28:49 < grummund> Hmm, looking for latest FTDI driver for Olimex OCD JTAG adaptor...
2011-10-17T00:29:23 < grummund> i have this link http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM20602.zip but can't find an html page for it, so maybe it's the latest but maybe not
2011-10-17T00:30:07 < grummund> under "Drivers" they talk about VCP and D2XX, but no mention of CDM.
2011-10-17T00:36:19 < Thorn> grummund: the D2XX page links to http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM20814_WHQL_Certified.zip etc
2011-10-17T00:38:10 < grummund> strange. i found on the main page a link to CDM release - http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM20808.zip
2011-10-17T00:38:55 < Thorn> apparently CDM packages simply contain both VCP & D2XX drivers
2011-10-17T00:39:07 < grummund> ah,ok.
2011-10-17T00:39:42 < Thorn> the d2xx mannual defines cdm as "Combined Driver Model. Windows driver package which incorporates both D2XX and VCP drivers."
2011-10-17T00:40:48 < grummund> right. thanks for that...
2011-10-17T00:42:17 < Thorn> btw olimex might have edited VID & PID in the .ini files of the drivers they distribute, not sure about that
2011-10-17T00:42:38 < grummund> ok thanks for the heads up
2011-10-17T00:44:22 < Thorn> this windows driver model is pretty retarded. you may need to install the same driver multiple times for different devices (?)
2011-10-17T00:45:47 < grummund> yeah, like the microsoft generic USB-serial driver
2011-10-17T00:47:23 < grummund> Hmm, Windows is refusing the stock FTDI .inf files as being driver for the Olimex :-/
2011-10-17T00:50:27 < grummund> yep, comparing to the original Olimex .inf files, the VID/PID are different
2011-10-17T00:50:47 < Thorn> my olimex adapter has VID=15ba and PID=002B
2011-10-17T00:51:06 < Thorn> that's not standard for ftdi iirc
2011-10-17T00:51:26 < grummund> that matches the Olimex supplied .inf file
2011-10-17T00:57:28  * grummund wonders whether to go with the supplied Olimex 2.04.06 driver, or find a way to install latest from FTDI (2.08.14)
2011-10-17T01:06:39 < Thorn> can you edit the .inf in the new driver to change vid/pid? that should be all you need
2011-10-17T01:11:39 < grummund> alternatively i could not deliberately make life difficult
2011-10-17T01:13:32  * grummund leaves "latest and greatest" for another day...
2011-10-17T01:14:01 <+Steffanx> Have un
2011-10-17T01:14:02 <+Steffanx> fun
2011-10-17T01:20:58 < grummund> bwahaha
2011-10-17T01:22:56 < grummund> to be safe i installed the old Olimex driver... now read forward in the HowTo and it says to use the (hacked) FTDI driver
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2011-10-17T01:41:28 < grummund> bwah
2011-10-17T01:41:30 < grummund> configure: WARNING: You need a newer FTD2XX driver (version 2.04.16 or later).
2011-10-17T01:42:50 < Thorn> who said that? openocd configure?
2011-10-17T01:45:36 < grummund> yes
2011-10-17T01:46:32 < Thorn> looks like you need the cdm uninstall utility now...
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2011-10-17T02:39:10 < Rickta59> so the MCO value is that output without any PLL scaling? I'm running at what I think is 24MHz ( using sample programs ) but the output on the MCO pin is 8MHz .. is that what I should expect?  Is there another ping that puts out the actual frequency the sys clock is really running?
2011-10-17T02:44:24 < Thorn> what are your MCO bits in RCC_CFGR? reading rm0008 you can have SYSCLK, PLL/2 etc on the MCO pin
2011-10-17T02:46:31 < Rickta59> looking at the sample code to try and determine
2011-10-17T02:47:20 < Thorn> best to read them out
2011-10-17T02:49:35 < Rickta59> hmm .. I just switched to Truestudio Lite and the SFR display is limited .. ie nothing is shown
2011-10-17T02:50:15 < Rickta59> ok .. i should just read more .. sorry
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2011-10-17T14:06:29 < grummund> great, i can now flash successfully with JTAG :-)
2011-10-17T15:45:01 < grummund> re-compiling an old project, i get a stream of errors:
2011-10-17T15:45:13 < grummund> /usr/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.5.2/../../../../arm-elf/bin/ld: error: /usr/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.5.2/../../../../arm-elf/lib/libc.a(lib_a-atexit.o) uses hardware FP, whereas blinky.elf uses software FP
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2011-10-17T16:01:54  * grummund tring things at random...
2011-10-17T16:02:17 < grummund> -nostartfiles makes the errors go away, but no blinky blinky :-/
2011-10-17T16:52:05 < Thorn> are you using a compiler for correct target? arm-elf != arm-none-eabi
2011-10-17T16:57:30 < grummund> tbh. i have no idea *what* i'm doing
2011-10-17T16:58:54 < grummund> my assumption is since newlib is also provided then the compiler is built for targeting bare metal hardware
2011-10-17T16:59:22 <@jpa-> err, no
2011-10-17T16:59:32 <@jpa-> newlib can run on linux too
2011-10-17T16:59:41 < Thorn> it can
2011-10-17T17:00:03 < grummund> hmm, is this a problem?
2011-10-17T17:00:18 < Thorn> you need an arm-none-eabi for bare metal w/ cmsis, and you seem to be using arm-elf (embedded linux target)
2011-10-17T17:00:19 < grummund> avr-gcc generates .elf does it not?
2011-10-17T17:00:32 <@jpa-> well you can't mix arm-none-eabi binaries with arm-elf binaries; i do not know if you can use arm-elf on bare metal
2011-10-17T17:01:43 < Thorn> probably not without writing custom startup code and linker script
2011-10-17T17:01:47 <@jpa-> the file extension .elf doesn't have much to do with the ABI; it is just a container
2011-10-17T17:02:27 <@jpa-> true, but everyone writes their own linker script and startup code anyway :P
2011-10-17T17:03:11  * Thorn feels stupid now
2011-10-17T17:03:24 < grummund> my feeling is that with the correct linker script this should work
2011-10-17T17:03:39 < grummund> but i don't know enough about that
2011-10-17T17:03:53 <@jpa-> why not just use arm-none-eabi?
2011-10-17T17:04:06 < Thorn> an .elf produced by arm-elf will be "designed" for the linux loader (ld.so or whatever)
2011-10-17T17:04:13 < grummund> Cygwin has arm-elf-gcc
2011-10-17T17:04:36 <@jpa-> whats wrong with plain old codesourcery :P
2011-10-17T17:05:02 < grummund> if i have to i will use it but i prefer Cygwin if possible
2011-10-17T17:05:55 <@jpa-> you shouldn't need libc for blinky anyway
2011-10-17T17:06:01 < Thorn> for one thing, codesourcery doesn't seem to be eager to release cortex-m4f support for free
2011-10-17T17:06:29 < grummund> ultimately i will aim to build the whole toolchain from source
2011-10-17T17:06:35 < Thorn> (not that cgwin has that support of course)
2011-10-17T17:06:38 <@jpa-> building it is not that bad
2011-10-17T17:07:10 < grummund> i was heading that way until i discovered that Cygwin already packaged gcc + newlib for arm
2011-10-17T17:07:47 < Thorn> openocd takes 14 seconds to upload 1400 bytes into an lpc1768
2011-10-17T17:08:15 <@jpa-> using some bitbang hardware?
2011-10-17T17:08:35 < Thorn> the same olimex adapter I use for stm32
2011-10-17T17:08:37 < grummund> oh, i built openocd 0.5 too :) and it works fine with latest FTDI driver.
2011-10-17T17:09:13 < Thorn> (it's way faster with stm32)
2011-10-17T17:13:36 < Thorn> btw the lpc17xx cmsis library uses CS3 startup, so it may not even work with any toolchain other than codesourcery
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2011-10-17T17:32:47 < Laurenceb> the olimexino-stm32 looks good
2011-10-17T17:34:23 < grummund> yes it does
2011-10-17T18:03:08 < Thorn> "NOISE IMMUNE design" - how's that?
2011-10-17T18:03:28 < grummund> it comes in a Lead box
2011-10-17T18:06:25 < Thorn> 1" thick?
2011-10-17T18:06:57 < Thorn> and no jtag port
2011-10-17T18:10:17 < grummund> compared to the AVR-based arduinos it does look fantastic
2011-10-17T18:11:29 < grummund> SD/MMC slot, Lipo charger, SMPS regulator, and all for EUR20
2011-10-17T18:12:34 < Thorn> what's the target market? poor man's LOGO?
2011-10-17T18:13:06 < grummund> same as arduino i guess
2011-10-17T18:13:29 < grummund> except this has a 320bit micro running @ 72MHz :P
2011-10-17T18:13:52 < grummund> 32-bit of course..., 320 would be silly.
2011-10-17T18:13:54 < Thorn> arduino users will hardly appreciate the benefits I think
2011-10-17T18:14:55 < Laurenceb> CAN as well
2011-10-17T18:15:12 < Laurenceb> the UEXT interface looks like a clever plan
2011-10-17T18:16:37 < Thorn> many olimex boards have that. I personally use it as a pin header
2011-10-17T18:18:14 < Thorn> how long until a blackfin arduino I wonder
2011-10-17T18:18:25 < Thorn> (fpga arduinos already exist)
2011-10-17T18:24:43 < Laurenceb> haha
2011-10-17T18:24:55 < Laurenceb> ive done software gps on blackfin
2011-10-17T18:26:04 < Laurenceb> http://slashdong.org
2011-10-17T18:41:42 < Thorn> are there any cheap blackfin develipment boards / jtag adapters?
2011-10-17T18:50:34 < Thorn> um... software gps?
2011-10-17T18:52:00 < Laurenceb> software defined radio
2011-10-17T18:58:46 < Thorn> nice. that's probably a whole lot of math
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2011-10-17T19:54:44 < grummund> BLINKY! \o/
2011-10-17T19:56:59 <+Steffanx> Where?
2011-10-17T19:57:10 < grummund> here :)
2011-10-17T19:57:20 <+Steffanx> How many LED's?
2011-10-17T19:57:26 < grummund> one
2011-10-17T19:58:05 <+Steffanx> A poormans blink
2011-10-17T19:58:36 < grummund> a happyman's blink
2011-10-17T19:59:02 < Thorn> my lpc1768 refuses to blink. looks like I'll need to rtfm after all
2011-10-17T19:59:50 <+Steffanx> ha
2011-10-17T20:03:00 < Thorn> official examples don't have any initialization. they just set port direction and blink away. but when I do that I get a hard fault. but when I remove all peripheral access code I end up in the boot rom space for some reason.
2011-10-17T21:36:22 <+Steffanx> dekar .. where is he?
2011-10-17T21:36:46 <+Steffanx> dekar should sue ST
2011-10-17T21:37:03 <+Steffanx> They combine their peripheral libs with GPL AND BSD code ..
2011-10-17T21:37:15 <+Steffanx> That's not acceptable!
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2011-10-17T21:39:53 <+Steffanx> izua !
2011-10-17T21:40:00 <+izua> Steffanx: !
2011-10-17T21:42:55 <+izua> how are things
2011-10-17T21:43:03 <+Steffanx> Fine.. there
2011-10-17T21:43:04 <+Steffanx> ?
2011-10-17T21:43:23 <+izua> cold and rainy, etc
2011-10-17T21:43:39 <+Steffanx> Here only cold atm
2011-10-17T21:43:55 <+Steffanx> As in .. 12 C
2011-10-17T21:44:00 <+izua> hmm
2011-10-17T21:44:06 <+izua> oh wait, you and your weather station
2011-10-17T21:44:09 <+izua> inb4 wind direction
2011-10-17T21:44:11 <+Steffanx> No
2011-10-17T21:44:14 <+Steffanx> I don't ahve it anymore
2011-10-17T21:44:36 <+izua> they took it?
2011-10-17T21:44:41 <+Steffanx> Yep
2011-10-17T21:44:45 <+Steffanx> Uni project..
2011-10-17T21:44:46 <+izua> they took your job?
2011-10-17T21:44:57 <+izua> TRREY TWEK YER JEWRB!
2011-10-17T21:45:04 <+Steffanx> :S?
2011-10-17T21:45:12 <+izua> south park reference, nvm :p
2011-10-17T21:45:20 <+Steffanx> i dont like south park
2011-10-17T21:45:39 <+Steffanx> I do like some episodes, but most of them suck
2011-10-17T21:45:40 <+izua> you are not welcome here anymore >.<
2011-10-17T21:45:55  * izua kickbans Steffanx into the 7th layer of dante's inferno
2011-10-17T21:46:09 <+izua> ah well
2011-10-17T21:46:15 <+izua> do they also sponsor the projects?
2011-10-17T21:47:05 <+Steffanx> 25/75 ..
2011-10-17T21:47:09 <+Steffanx> So they paid most of it
2011-10-17T21:47:26 <+izua> hmm, sucky.
2011-10-17T21:47:33 <+izua> here they don't sponsor anything
2011-10-17T21:47:38 <+izua> but you always get to keep your crap
2011-10-17T21:47:58 <+izua> probably like cooking school - you're forced to eat what you make :D
2011-10-17T21:48:07 <+Steffanx> They are willing to pay 250e for a project..
2011-10-17T21:48:10 <+Steffanx> *~250e
2011-10-17T21:48:39 <+izua> that's pretty neat though
2011-10-17T21:48:42 <+Steffanx> For some projects they even paid ~100 euro :S
2011-10-17T21:48:45 <+Steffanx> *1000
2011-10-17T21:49:57 <+Steffanx> I have to say.. the electronics department of my uni is the most expensive one :)
2011-10-17T21:50:55 <+Steffanx> And !@#$% never used equipment ..
2011-10-17T21:51:05 <+Steffanx> Like digital spectrum analysers
2011-10-17T21:51:45 <+izua> hehe
2011-10-17T21:52:19 <+izua> if programmers had to pay €1 per line of code, the cs department would probably be the most expensive
2011-10-17T21:52:30 <+izua> either that, or incredibly short algorithms would be developed
2011-10-17T21:53:04 <+izua> but wth, EE is an expensive hobby irl.
2011-10-17T21:53:07 <+Steffanx> We also have a room with a shitload of free components
2011-10-17T21:53:21 <+izua> anyway, speaking of random, are you familiar with the UVB-76 radio station (the buzzer) ?
2011-10-17T21:53:37 <+Steffanx> Nope
2011-10-17T21:53:41 <+Steffanx> Too random
2011-10-17T21:53:53 <+izua> hah
2011-10-17T21:54:06 <+izua> it's a russian (presumed .mil) emitter, at a few MWs
2011-10-17T21:54:25 <+izua> all it does (apparently) is emit a buzz, 25 times per second, except the few times some voices were heard in the background
2011-10-17T21:54:53 <+izua> and recently it was relocated, upgraded and got its callsign changed
2011-10-17T21:55:08 <+izua> but the buzz started when people went into the old complex. speculation, doomsday devices, etc
2011-10-17T21:55:19 <+izua> s/second/minute
2011-10-17T21:57:18 <+izua> other conspiracy theories also popped up. for example, the old complex was - a lot of times - blackened out or shadowed by clouds on google maps, yahoo, etc.
2011-10-17T21:57:46 <+izua> all because of some random TXer, eh
2011-10-17T22:00:02 <+Steffanx> At least i can receive CB with my macbook + head phone
2011-10-17T22:01:01 <+izua> lol dude that's horrible
2011-10-17T22:01:07 <+izua> his txing installation is fail
2011-10-17T22:01:09 <+izua> or your grounding
2011-10-17T22:01:22 <+Steffanx> The macbook is
2011-10-17T22:01:32 <+izua> that's implied
2011-10-17T22:01:44 <+Steffanx> The audio out is also very noisy
2011-10-17T22:01:45  * izua watches steve jobs roll in his grave
2011-10-17T22:03:05 <+Steffanx> The macbook is from before he died
2011-10-17T22:15:20 < Thorn> now gdb crashes, great
2011-10-17T22:16:17 <+Steffanx> ARgh.. i plays this FPS.. why some people like cheating?!
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2011-10-18T00:37:22 <+Steffanx> lol don't trust google anymore
2011-10-18T00:37:26 <+Steffanx> Google made google+ buggy
2011-10-18T00:37:26 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/bug-20111017-233708.png
2011-10-18T00:38:19 <+Steffanx> That guy blocked me
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2011-10-18T07:46:09 < CheBuzz> Is it possible to connect both I2C and SMBus devices to the same bus on the STM32?  From what I read it seems like that should work.  Is there any sort of switching that needs to be done to communicate with an I2C and then an SMBus device and back again?
2011-10-18T07:47:52 < CheBuzz> Ah, nevermind. "To switch from I2C mode to SMBus mode..."
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2011-10-18T16:23:50 < Laurenceb> is there linux support for SWD yet?
2011-10-18T16:24:20 <@jpa-> stlink works?
2011-10-18T16:24:40 < Laurenceb> that uses SWD?
2011-10-18T16:24:53 <@jpa-> yes
2011-10-18T16:24:59 < Laurenceb> cool
2011-10-18T16:25:06 <@jpa-> haven't tried with anything else than discovery yet, though
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2011-10-18T20:33:04 < dekar_> Laurenceb, jpa- I am pretty sure versaloon supports SWD as well
2011-10-18T20:33:48 < dekar_> versaloon is that open source universal jtag firmware you can flash on stm32
2011-10-18T20:38:22 < Rickta59> so is CMSIS the best way to go or should I be looking at something else?
2011-10-18T20:38:50 < Rickta59> * just getting started with the STM32 stuff
2011-10-18T20:39:47 < Rickta59> I came across the library from the maple people .. and the libopenstm32
2011-10-18T20:39:54 < Rickta59> are those considered fringe?
2011-10-18T20:45:17 <+Steffanx> dekar_ !
2011-10-18T20:45:23 <+Steffanx> You have to sue ST
2011-10-18T20:45:41 <+Steffanx> They combine GPL + BSD + their license-less code
2011-10-18T20:46:25 < dekar_> Steffanx, GPL?
2011-10-18T20:46:30 < dekar_> show me
2011-10-18T20:46:37 <+Steffanx> FreeRTOS is gpl isn't it?
2011-10-18T20:46:43 < dekar_> dunno
2011-10-18T20:46:46 < dekar_> probably not
2011-10-18T20:47:16 < dekar_> The exception permits users' proprietary code to remain closed source while maintaining the kernel itself as open source, thereby facilitating the use of FreeRTOS in proprietary applications.
2011-10-18T20:47:31 < dekar_> it's some non-viral variant
2011-10-18T20:47:37 <+Steffanx> h, i see modifief
2011-10-18T20:47:38 <+Steffanx> d
2011-10-18T20:48:11 <+Steffanx> Lucky ST then :P
2011-10-18T20:48:23 < dekar_> Rickta59, dunno - I haven't tried libopenstm32 for company policy reasons
2011-10-18T20:48:45 < dekar_> Steffanx, do they offer compiled freeRTOS firmwares anyway?
2011-10-18T20:48:52 <+Steffanx> Non-compiled
2011-10-18T20:49:30 < dekar_> Steffanx, I am not sure if it would even matter when they don't license you the derived work
2011-10-18T20:50:10 < dekar_> if they don't give you a license to the compiled version then it isn't derived work yet afaik
2011-10-18T20:50:18  * dekar_ is watching a movie now
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2011-10-18T23:05:15 < Laurenceb_> can anyone explain fast seek in fatfs?
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2011-10-19T00:08:47 < grummund> Is there anywhere a set of gcc linker scripts for stm32, like there is for avr?
2011-10-19T00:11:00 < Laurenceb_> on my github
2011-10-19T00:16:30 < grummund> hmm, is that one script for all stm32?
2011-10-19T00:17:21 < Laurenceb_> im not 100% sure tbh, i didnt write it
2011-10-19T00:17:30 < Laurenceb_> works on my stm32f103
2011-10-19T00:17:50 < grummund> where did it originate from?
2011-10-19T00:18:02 <+Steffanx> Mars
2011-10-19T00:18:51 < grummund> it does appear to be written in Martian
2011-10-19T00:19:14 < grummund> but that's linker scripts for you i guess
2011-10-19T00:20:01 < grummund> does codesourcery come with stm32 linker scripts or must you roll your own?
2011-10-19T00:20:35 <+Steffanx> I 'stole' one from one of the IDE's
2011-10-19T00:20:42 <+Steffanx> I think it sort of Atollic's
2011-10-19T00:23:37 < Rickta59> http://www.embedds.com/programming-stm32-discovery-using-gnu-tools-linker-script/ .. funny i was just looking at that
2011-10-19T00:23:46 < Rickta59> and modifying it for an STM32L-Discovery
2011-10-19T00:24:18 < Rickta59> there is a script in the texane/stlink/examples/lcd directory
2011-10-19T00:24:43 < Rickta59> that one builds into the SRAM
2011-10-19T00:24:54 < Rickta59> i wanted to make one that would link to both flash and sram
2011-10-19T00:25:25 < Rickta59> https://github.com/texane/stlink/blob/master/example/lcd/linker_stm32l.lds
2011-10-19T00:26:09 < grummund> that's what i'm using - http://pastebin.com/AYLMTNQJ
2011-10-19T00:26:40 < Rickta59> I thought flash started at 0x8000000 ?
2011-10-19T00:27:04 < Rickta59> what chip is that script for grummund?
2011-10-19T00:27:39 < grummund> F103
2011-10-19T00:28:16 < Rickta59> are you working in linux or windows?
2011-10-19T00:28:29 < grummund> Windows with Cygwin
2011-10-19T00:29:12 < Rickta59> * still looking how to do this on linux
2011-10-19T00:29:17 < Rickta59> with opensource tools
2011-10-19T00:30:07 < grummund> you can build gcc, binutils, & newlib from source
2011-10-19T00:30:16 < Rickta59> i have a compiling setup
2011-10-19T00:30:39 < Rickta59> what i'm missing is the proper setup to link to flash and then write to the device
2011-10-19T00:31:05 < Rickta59> the texane/stlink seems to imply that the flash utility it provides will do it but  .. it hasn't yet
2011-10-19T00:31:08 < grummund> do you have a jtag programmer?
2011-10-19T00:31:33 < Rickta59> i have the STM32L-Discovery board no programmer .. trying to use the board itself to work
2011-10-19T00:31:46 < grummund> hmm, i dunno about that...
2011-10-19T00:32:10 < Rickta59> i can compile code and get it to load in memory with the FOSS stlink and gdb ..
2011-10-19T00:32:16 < Rickta59> as long as I'm only using ram
2011-10-19T00:32:21 < grummund> i built openocd from source and it works with an Olimex JTAG programmer
2011-10-19T00:32:24 < Rickta59> which is actually find for now
2011-10-19T00:32:28 < Rickta59> fin3
2011-10-19T00:32:29 < Rickta59> fine
2011-10-19T00:32:44 < Rickta59> but at some point I want to burn it into flash
2011-10-19T00:33:05 < grummund> indeed
2011-10-19T00:33:21 < Rickta59> i'm still trrying to figure out basic stuff
2011-10-19T00:33:30 < Rickta59> clocks/gpio/usart
2011-10-19T00:35:50 <+Steffanx> I still should get me a decent programmer
2011-10-19T00:36:00 <+Steffanx> Or start and try to port that texane stuff to os x
2011-10-19T00:36:28 < grummund> ST have a usb bootloader on their chips though, don't they?
2011-10-19T00:36:40 < Rickta59> does OS/X have an API for raw SCSI ?
2011-10-19T00:36:48 < Rickta59> it has libusb right?
2011-10-19T00:36:53 <+Steffanx> Yes
2011-10-19T00:37:13 <+Steffanx> There is some scsi stuff in IOKit(or something)
2011-10-19T00:37:13 < Rickta59> the newest changes for the ST-LINK V2 switched to using USB for that device
2011-10-19T00:37:19 < Rickta59> so you might have a chance on OS/X
2011-10-19T00:37:24 <+Steffanx> but no 'raw' scsi
2011-10-19T00:37:38 < Rickta59> assuming you are using an STM32F4 or STML32L discovery board
2011-10-19T00:38:46 <+Steffanx> I think i have VL
2011-10-19T00:46:56 < Rickta59> that has the st-link v1 protocol so that code uses the linux only /dev/sg device to talk to it
2011-10-19T00:47:11 < Rickta59> if you plug it into your mac does it show up as a usb mass storage device?
2011-10-19T00:48:22 < Rickta59> maybe there are some nuggets in this for you: http://wagerlabs.com/writing-a-mac-osx-usb-device-driver-that-impl
2011-10-19T01:09:55 < Thorn> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
2011-10-19T01:10:51 < Thorn> two days messing with this lpc1768 board
2011-10-19T01:11:32 < Thorn> and the problem is in the circuit which connects leds to the mcu
2011-10-19T01:11:49 < Thorn> these Chinese developers are way too imaginative for their own good
2011-10-19T01:13:55 <+Steffanx> Yeah, i've seen that page Rickta59
2011-10-19T01:14:12 <+Steffanx> just didn't have the time to dig into it yet
2011-10-19T01:17:01 < Thorn> 8 leds are connected to 8 mcu pins using 3 ICs, 2 transistors, a jumper and two more MCU pins which jou have to set right
2011-10-19T01:18:01 <+Steffanx> Ha
2011-10-19T01:18:22 <+Steffanx> Have fun,
2011-10-19T01:18:27 <+Steffanx> Time for some sleep
2011-10-19T01:18:36 < Thorn> with no documentation, even in Chinese
2011-10-19T01:19:34 < Thorn> night
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2011-10-19T01:49:08 < Thorn> swd patch for openocd http://www.versaloon.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2808
2011-10-19T01:50:44 < Thorn> (versaloon jtag only)
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2011-10-19T08:40:23 <+izua_> Thorn: charlieplexing
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2011-10-19T13:02:41 < erik-k> Praaaiiiiiiiiiise the lord! I finally got my base algorithm set up
2011-10-19T13:03:34 < erik-k> My stm board now correctly outputs the bits to make up to 4 steppers dance
2011-10-19T13:27:18 < Thorn> the lpc17xx family appears to be stm32 done right. at the very least that can be said about its manual
2011-10-19T13:30:35 <+izua_> lpcs are the older generation of arms
2011-10-19T13:30:42 <+izua_> devved by philips iirc
2011-10-19T13:31:01 <+izua_> they don't have as much hardware/peripherals as the stm32 though
2011-10-19T13:32:10 <+izua_> also - what do you think is wrong with the stm32? except the jtag/protection issue
2011-10-19T13:32:15 < Thorn> it's a cortex-m3 and seems to have everything stm32f1xx has (in a single chip too)
2011-10-19T13:33:00 <+izua_> oh. i must be thinking of lpc20xx then.
2011-10-19T13:33:39 < Thorn> yes that's 7tdmi
2011-10-19T13:50:48 < grummund> Where do people get their startup.s and linker_script.ld files from?
2011-10-19T13:54:14  * grummund found these two from ST, which builds nicely but fails to run for some reason:
2011-10-19T13:54:17 < grummund> STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0/Project/STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Template/TrueSTUDIO/STM3210B-EVAL/stm32_flash.ld
2011-10-19T13:54:20 < grummund> STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0/Libraries/CMSIS/CM3/DeviceSupport/ST/STM32F10x/startup/gcc_ride7/startup_stm32f10x_hd.s
2011-10-19T13:59:23 < erik-k> grummund: I took my skeleton from Geoff McRae's stm32 dev site
2011-10-19T13:59:44 < erik-k> http://stm32.spacevs.com/files/stm32-skeleton.tar.bz2
2011-10-19T14:00:43 < erik-k> May require some tweaks depending on toolchain and will require them for different devices, but once I did that it built/ran/uploaded via jtag just fine
2011-10-19T14:02:13 < erik-k> (specifically, there's a few address constants/offsets in linker.ld that are device-dependent, and you'll have to rewrite parts of the ISR vector if you don't have an XL chip)
2011-10-19T14:02:56  * erik-k tries to go to bed, falls over face-first onto keyboard instead
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2011-10-19T14:06:20 < grummund> thanks
2011-10-19T14:12:20 < erik-k> ^_^ \d0_0b/
2011-10-19T14:19:26 < dekar__> izua_, I am disassembling some firmware right now, searching for a password
2011-10-19T14:19:37 < dekar__> I found out it's an arm
2011-10-19T14:19:56 < dekar__> the rom seems to start at 0x80000
2011-10-19T14:20:06 < dekar__> do you know what µC that might be?
2011-10-19T14:20:16 < dekar__> I am still searching for the RAM
2011-10-19T14:46:31 < dekar__> ram seems to be at 0x10000
2011-10-19T14:51:54 < grummund> Can anyone spot why this code won't run? - http://pastebin.com/szpE1RpY
2011-10-19T14:52:42 < grummund> it flashes to the target ok, but appears to do 'nothing'.
2011-10-19T14:52:44 < Laurenceb_> dekar__: an stm32?
2011-10-19T14:53:38 < Laurenceb_> erm do you have the source?
2011-10-19T14:54:06 < grummund> Laurenceb_: me or dekar__ ?
2011-10-19T14:54:23 < Laurenceb_> grummond: you
2011-10-19T14:55:48 < grummund> yes, but the problem is not with the source... i'm trying to integrate the startup code and linker script from ST, and it fails to run.
2011-10-19T14:56:07 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2011-10-19T14:56:17 < dekar__> Laurenceb, not an stm32, just some hardware I am hacking at work
2011-10-19T14:56:41 < grummund> Laurenceb_: here's the code anyway - http://pastebin.com/f7kukqky
2011-10-19T14:56:45 < dekar__> using 0x80000 as rom address I managed to fully disassemble it
2011-10-19T14:57:25 < Thorn> grummund: they have startup code for each line (vl, hd, cl etc), and linker script needs to be corrected too
2011-10-19T14:57:33 < Laurenceb_> source looks sane
2011-10-19T14:58:24 < grummund> well the device is an STM32F103RB, and i'm using startup_stm32f10x_hd.s with stm32_flash.ld
2011-10-19T14:59:41 < grummund> i don't know much about linker script syntax, but it appears sane...
2011-10-19T14:59:49 < grummund> (linker script comments match the physical memory size of the F103)
2011-10-19T15:00:01 < Thorn> are you sure that 103rb is HD and not MD?
2011-10-19T15:00:41 < grummund> Hrm, seems i've been looking at the wrong datasheet :-/
2011-10-19T15:00:41 < Thorn> "Medium-density devices are STM32F101xx, STM32F102xx and STM32F103xx microcontrollers where the Flash memory density ranges between 64 and 128 Kbytes."
2011-10-19T15:02:24 < grummund> Thorn: good catch :)
2011-10-19T15:02:40 < grummund> still no blinky though... :-/
2011-10-19T15:03:03 < Thorn> use gcc to see what the code is doing
2011-10-19T15:03:30 < Thorn> maybe it's in a hard fault
2011-10-19T15:03:44 < Thorn> s/code/cpu/
2011-10-19T15:04:06 < grummund> how do you mean "use gcc"?
2011-10-19T15:04:11 < grummund> gdb?
2011-10-19T15:04:29 < Thorn> right gdb
2011-10-19T15:04:39 < grummund> Hrm, not set that up yet
2011-10-19T15:04:48  * grummund never used gdb before
2011-10-19T15:04:53 < Thorn> doing 3 things at once sorry
2011-10-19T15:04:59 < grummund> s'okay
2011-10-19T15:07:16 <+izua_> dunno, z80? lol
2011-10-19T15:07:23 < grummund> i have to go out for a while anyway, will re-visit this with a fresh head later.
2011-10-19T15:07:38 < grummund> that's the disassembly if anyone cares to look in the meantime - http://pastebin.com/kbWpEmyP
2011-10-19T15:08:06 < grummund> STM32F103RB has 128k flash and 20k ram, i believe.
2011-10-19T15:09:24 < Thorn> you don't need to call SystemInit for the second time
2011-10-19T15:09:27 <+izua_> dekar__: anyway, sup dude
2011-10-19T15:09:47 < Thorn> it's already called before main()
2011-10-19T15:11:33 < Thorn> see lines 1165-1166 of your listing
2011-10-19T15:14:20 < dekar__> that one: http://www.analog.com/en/processors-dsp/analog-microcontrollers/aduc7020/processors/product.html
2011-10-19T15:14:21 < dekar__> :)
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2011-10-19T17:17:10 < Laurenceb_> BOOT0 is high to enter bootloader mode?
2011-10-19T17:18:45 < Laurenceb_> yeah
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2011-10-19T18:53:17 < grummund> Can plain vanilla 'gdb' be used to debug code built with 'arm-elf-gcc' ?
2011-10-19T19:14:13 <@jpa-> no
2011-10-19T19:14:43 <@jpa-> it will start just fine but most features won't work, like backtrace or loading programs
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2011-10-19T19:21:39 < grummund> (gdb) target remote localhost:3333
2011-10-19T19:21:39 < grummund> Remote debugging using localhost:3333
2011-10-19T19:21:40 < grummund> 0xfffffffe in ?? ()
2011-10-19T19:23:43 < grummund> that's what i get with plain gdb, i don't have arm-elf-gdb (yet)
2011-10-19T19:40:37 <@jpa-> yeah, it won't understand the PC and LR registers of the arm processor
2011-10-19T19:42:52 < grummund> ok, guess i need to aquire the right gdb, or build it from source.
2011-10-19T19:52:52 < grummund> One thing i do not understand is why section .isr_vector is not shown with objdump --disassemble, but is shown with objdump --disassemble-all
2011-10-19T19:53:10 < grummund> i think that means the section is not "executable"
2011-10-19T19:53:45 < Thorn> it's not executable, it's a vector table
2011-10-19T19:54:08 < grummund> isn't that just a set of jmp instructions?
2011-10-19T19:54:39 < Thorn> no. only addresses
2011-10-19T19:54:56 < grummund> ah that explains it then
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--- Day changed Thu Oct 20 2011
2011-10-20T00:38:42 < grummund> Steffanx: did you say you're using a linker script from Atollic?
2011-10-20T00:39:08 <+Steffanx> I say more things :P
2011-10-20T00:39:25 < grummund> is it true? :P
2011-10-20T00:39:32 <+Steffanx> one moment
2011-10-20T00:39:47  * Steffanx takes a look in his bookmarks
2011-10-20T00:39:54 < grummund> i'm trying to get a working setup for stm32F103
2011-10-20T00:40:28 <+Steffanx> https://sites.google.com/site/stm32discovery/open-source-development-with-the-stm32-discovery/setting-up-eclipse-for-stm32-discovery-development
2011-10-20T00:40:40 <+Steffanx> Some where on that page is the linkerscript i used
2011-10-20T00:40:48 <+Steffanx> I only need an extra } at the end
2011-10-20T00:41:04 < grummund> thanks
2011-10-20T00:41:35 < grummund> does that also have startup.s (or whatever) ?
2011-10-20T00:41:52 < Thorn> here's mine (for 103) http://pastebin.com/7Esk0gS4
2011-10-20T00:42:08 < Thorn> (not the slightest idea what MEMORY_B1 is)
2011-10-20T00:42:27 < grummund> backup ram probably
2011-10-20T00:42:56 <+Steffanx> The startup code is also somewhere there grummund
2011-10-20T00:43:11 <+Steffanx> You probably have to modify it for f103
2011-10-20T00:43:14 < Thorn> ah it's the FSMC space
2011-10-20T00:43:38 < Thorn> startup code is included in the st cmsis library
2011-10-20T00:44:03 < grummund> i might have to build gdb from source just to figure out why this thing won't fire up
2011-10-20T00:44:06 <+Steffanx> oh, true
2011-10-20T00:45:15 < grummund> i'm using startup_stm32f10x_md.s from STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0
2011-10-20T00:45:35 < Thorn> that's the right one
2011-10-20T00:46:43 < Thorn> (you need to edit _estack and LENGTHs in the linker script)
2011-10-20T00:47:28 < Thorn> btw, will cortex-m3 generate some kind of fault on dereferencing a null pointer?
2011-10-20T00:49:05 < grummund> hmm, that script is pretty much what i have already
2011-10-20T00:49:12 < Thorn> address 0 is in flash and contains data, so probably not
2011-10-20T00:50:33 < grummund> Thorn: that's a diff from the script i'm using and the one you just pasted - http://pastebin.com/C4wUR66a
2011-10-20T00:51:37 < Thorn> should work well then
2011-10-20T00:52:27 < grummund> ok, it must be another problem then
2011-10-20T00:52:35 < Thorn> as long as you're using arm-none-eabi toolchain
2011-10-20T00:52:47 < grummund> arm-elf-*
2011-10-20T00:57:23 < grummund> that's the build process - http://pastebin.com/RPjAnjCd
2011-10-20T00:59:12 < grummund> Hmm, gonna pick this up again tomorrow with a fresh head
2011-10-20T00:59:16 < grummund> g'night all
2011-10-20T00:59:26 < Thorn> did it ever work?
2011-10-20T00:59:53 < Thorn> I remember you saying that it did at some point
2011-10-20T01:00:07 < Thorn> if I'm not mistaken that is
2011-10-20T01:00:23 < grummund> it works with a minimal linker script and minimal vector table hacked into main.c
2011-10-20T01:00:54 < Thorn> wait a minute
2011-10-20T01:01:09 < grummund> like this - http://fun-tech.se/stm32/OlimexBlinky/mini.php
2011-10-20T01:01:52 < Thorn> -DDEVICE=STM32F10X_MD
2011-10-20T01:02:54 < Thorn> try adding that
2011-10-20T01:03:22 < grummund> still no blinky, but thanks.
2011-10-20T01:03:35 < Thorn> you need to recompile everything
2011-10-20T01:03:35 < grummund> i'll look into that tomorrow
2011-10-20T01:03:41 < grummund> did so
2011-10-20T01:03:47 < grummund> must dash...
2011-10-20T01:03:58 < Thorn> ok good night
2011-10-20T01:04:06 < grummund> bye. and thanks :)
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2011-10-20T01:20:13 < Thorn> looks like the only interesting thing that lpc1768 lacks is an external sram controller (lpc1778 does have it)
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2011-10-20T02:32:53 < Thorn> -mfloat-abi=hard
2011-10-20T02:33:57 < Thorn> apparently stock gcc 4.6 does support cortex-m4 hardware floating point with that option
2011-10-20T02:35:56 < Thorn> http://embdev.net/topic/216192
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2011-10-20T04:39:41 < erik-k> grummund: The skeleton I pointed you to not working out?
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2011-10-20T11:25:10 < grummund> morning
2011-10-20T11:25:29 <+Steffanx> Good morning
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2011-10-20T11:38:40 <+Steffanx> Good morning
2011-10-20T11:41:50 < grummund> Another fine day for bug hunting
2011-10-20T11:55:29 <@jpa-> another fine day to make bugs
2011-10-20T11:58:10 < Thorn> highly fascinating http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2011/09/whats-the-state-of-your-cortex/
2011-10-20T11:58:47 <@jpa-> the state of my cortex is always HARDFAULT
2011-10-20T11:59:03 < grummund> i may have discovered the critical problem why my blinky does not run
2011-10-20T12:01:46 < grummund> comparing the output using the atollic linker script (from StdPeriph_Lib) vs. the original minimal script, the code is now being located at 0x08000000 instead of 0x00000000
2011-10-20T12:01:58 < grummund> so i guess it's trying to run from ram
2011-10-20T12:03:28 < Thorn> that's the actual flash location on the stm32. 0x08000000 = 0x0
2011-10-20T12:04:00 < Thorn> ram is at 0x20000000
2011-10-20T12:04:18 < grummund> hmm, ok my diagnosis is incorrect :-/
2011-10-20T12:04:31 < grummund> but still there is a critical difference to be explained
2011-10-20T12:06:43 < Thorn> "the main Flash memory is aliased in the boot memory space (0x0000 0000), but still accessible from its original memory space (0x800 0000). In other words, the Flash memory contents can be accessed starting from address 0x0000 0000 or 0x800 0000."
2011-10-20T12:06:56 < Thorn> rm0008 p. 61
2011-10-20T12:08:25 < grummund> blinky.list_ (working) vs. blinky.list (not working) - http://pastebin.com/VVCY7JgT
2011-10-20T12:08:43 < Thorn> does anyone know why ST did that btw? lpc17xx has its flash at 0x0 as expected
2011-10-20T12:10:01 < grummund> actually i have that the wrong way around
2011-10-20T12:10:37 < grummund> no, it was right. sigh
2011-10-20T12:14:13 < Thorn> I do believe that 0x800 0000 is exactly equivalent to 0x0, so you don't need to e.g. move the vector table
2011-10-20T12:15:32 < grummund> right ok. i tweaked the minimal linker script to 0x08000000 and it still works, so that's not it.
2011-10-20T12:15:42 <+Steffanx> It still works?
2011-10-20T12:15:50 < grummund> yes
2011-10-20T12:15:59 <+Steffanx> Why you search for bugs when it works :)
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2011-10-20T12:17:22 < grummund> i'm trying to use the startup code from ST's stdperiph library
2011-10-20T12:17:33 < Thorn> btw you shouldn't call SystemInit() from main(). it's called right before main() by the startup code
2011-10-20T12:17:47 < grummund> Thorn: yep, fixed that already thanks
2011-10-20T12:17:57 <+Steffanx> Sure oyu have the right startup code?
2011-10-20T12:18:46 < grummund> as sure as one can be with a project that fails to run :-S
2011-10-20T12:19:37 < grummund> Thorn: also btw, good catch on the missing define, thanks.  although i figured it should be -DSTM32F10X_MD not -DDEVICE=STM32F10X_MD
2011-10-20T12:19:55 < Thorn> well you need to use a debugger, it's no use trying to guess things from the listing
2011-10-20T12:20:13 < grummund> i agree
2011-10-20T12:20:54 < grummund> usually i loath debuggers but this is the odd occasion where it is genuinely needed
2011-10-20T12:21:25 < Thorn> I've looked at that #define yesterday and found that there's no DEVICE in the ST code anywhere, so I basically forgot why I put it there in the first place :) you're correct, that's how it should be
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2011-10-20T12:22:25 <+Steffanx> lol jpa- you still didn't reconnect since i gave you the operator powers :)
2011-10-20T12:25:01 < Thorn> btw I looked at tracing features and it appears that data trace only works with SWD (not JTAG), and for instruction trace you need >$1K adapters (ULINKpro, J-Trace)
2011-10-20T12:25:21 < Thorn> I wonder if a cheap open source implementation is viable
2011-10-20T12:26:05 <+Steffanx> Can't the Versaloon do it?
2011-10-20T12:26:48 < Thorn> it "may" support SWD, not aware of anything beyond that
2011-10-20T12:27:41 < Thorn> it's strange why specific hardware would be required for SWD, can't any FT2232 be used (like olimex adapters)?
2011-10-20T12:27:52 < grummund> JTAG can still be used for basic debugging?
2011-10-20T12:28:24  * grummund has the Olimex JTAG adaptor
2011-10-20T12:29:05 < Thorn> sure, it works for all standard debugging features
2011-10-20T12:29:09 <+Steffanx> I still prefer SWD.. only 2 wires :)
2011-10-20T12:29:21 <+Steffanx> + gnd
2011-10-20T12:29:55 < Thorn> other ARMs have trace buffers as jtag TAPs but not cortex-m
2011-10-20T12:55:24 < grummund> aha. if i edit the vector table in startup.s to change "Reset_Handler" to "main", then it BLINKS!
2011-10-20T12:55:57 < Thorn> but slowly, I'd imagine
2011-10-20T12:56:06 <+Steffanx> It's alive!!!!
2011-10-20T12:56:36 < grummund> Thorn: yes, unless SystemInit() is called at the top of main(), in which case it blinks normal speed
2011-10-20T12:57:07 < Thorn> so it's not SystemInit that's at fault?
2011-10-20T12:57:23 < Thorn> that leaves the startup code (which is quite simple)
2011-10-20T12:57:28 < grummund> it must be getting stuck in Reset_Handler
2011-10-20T12:58:57 < Thorn> all it does is, copy .data to ram; fill .bss with zeros ; call SystemInit(); call main()
2011-10-20T12:59:53 < grummund> Reset_Handler:	 bl	main
2011-10-20T13:00:17 < grummund> i copied the call to main() to right below the label
2011-10-20T13:00:25 < grummund> it does not blink
2011-10-20T13:01:21 < grummund> it suggests, perhaps, that Reset_Handler is not even being called correctly
2011-10-20T13:01:40 < Thorn> in my makefile I have this ld flag -Wl,--gc-sections,-cref,-u,Reset_Handler
2011-10-20T13:02:07 <+Steffanx> Time to use your debugger grummund ? :)
2011-10-20T13:02:08 < Thorn> although linker script already has ENTRY_POINT(Reset_Handler)
2011-10-20T13:02:26 < Thorn> you can try adding that flag though
2011-10-20T13:02:37 < grummund> Steffanx: the pre-built toolchain i have doesn't include gdb :-(
2011-10-20T13:03:12 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-590c49bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2011-10-20T13:03:22 < grummund> -u,Reset_Handler means "don't throw this away" ?
2011-10-20T13:03:45 < Thorn> "Force symbol to be entered in the output file as an undefined symbol."
2011-10-20T13:03:49 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@drms-590c49bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined ##stm32
2011-10-20T13:04:01 < Thorn> probably, not sure really
2011-10-20T13:05:13 < Thorn> from your listing: +00000000         *UND* 00000000 Reset_Handler
2011-10-20T13:05:55 < Thorn> looks like it's not linked in
2011-10-20T13:07:05 < Thorn> or use EXTERN(Reset_Handler) in the linker script
2011-10-20T13:07:29 < dekar_> jpa-, how about adding your code to the hardfault handler then? :)
2011-10-20T13:07:43 <+Steffanx> hehe dekar_
2011-10-20T13:08:04 <+Steffanx> goto main ? :)
2011-10-20T13:08:23 < Thorn> double fault locks the cpu up
2011-10-20T13:08:38 <+Steffanx> Can't you clear some flags first?
2011-10-20T13:09:46 < Thorn> the problem might be that Reset_Handler is not referenced anywhere so ld throws the code away
2011-10-20T13:11:25 < dekar_> Steffanx, I found the password inside that ARM7TDMI thing I was hacking :)
2011-10-20T13:11:34 <+Steffanx> :D
2011-10-20T13:11:51 <+Steffanx> I don't know about any arm you were hacking :)
2011-10-20T13:12:19 < dekar_> oh, I was hacking some transceiver yesterday
2011-10-20T13:12:33 <+Steffanx> How easy was it? Grap the fw and use 'strings'? :0
2011-10-20T13:12:37 < grummund> Thorn: it's there in the .bin file, near the end. (comparing with the disassembled code)
2011-10-20T13:12:41 < dekar_> Steffanx, not at all
2011-10-20T13:12:56 < dekar_> I was disassembling it, had to find out the rom and ram areas
2011-10-20T13:13:09 < dekar_> also the disassembler couldn't find the entry points
2011-10-20T13:13:10 <+Steffanx> No tools for that?
2011-10-20T13:13:19 <+Steffanx> Oh, poor you
2011-10-20T13:13:19 < dekar_> so I had to read the vector table and point to them
2011-10-20T13:13:37 < dekar_> took me a few hours
2011-10-20T13:13:38 < Laurenceb> is the ST datasheet server down or something?
2011-10-20T13:13:38 <+Steffanx> At least you succeeded
2011-10-20T13:13:43 < dekar_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/transceiver_firmware.png
2011-10-20T13:13:49 < dekar_> that's their I2C code :)
2011-10-20T13:13:50 <+Steffanx> I think I would've failed terribly
2011-10-20T13:14:01 < dekar_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/sfp_password.png
2011-10-20T13:14:06 < dekar_> and the password check :)
2011-10-20T13:14:15 <+Steffanx> Which tool is that?
2011-10-20T13:14:24 < dekar_> IDA
2011-10-20T13:15:04 <+Steffanx> They failed at securing the ARM?
2011-10-20T13:15:08 <+Steffanx> Write protection etc?
2011-10-20T13:15:12 <+Steffanx> *read
2011-10-20T13:15:26 < dekar_> yeah
2011-10-20T13:16:19 <+Steffanx> The password is only 4 chars?
2011-10-20T13:16:28 < dekar_> I am pretty sure yeah
2011-10-20T13:16:46 < dekar_> I didn't succeed in entering it yet
2011-10-20T13:17:05 < dekar_> to verify it is the password I will probably patch the firmware and see if that helps
2011-10-20T13:17:28 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-20T13:17:50 <+izua> Steffanx: it's more common than you think
2011-10-20T13:18:19 <+Steffanx> What izua, no read protection?
2011-10-20T13:19:32 < dekar_> it doesn't really matter anyway, I'd have tried bruteforce if that wouldn't have worked
2011-10-20T13:19:35 <+Steffanx> dekar_ if that's really the password code you could've cracked it by looking at the timing too
2011-10-20T13:19:57 <+Steffanx> Which is more a bruteforce way indeed
2011-10-20T13:20:26 < dekar_> I wouldn't have done the side-channel attack you suggested, too hard to implement
2011-10-20T13:20:33 < dekar_> you can bruteforce 32bit pretty fast
2011-10-20T13:20:42 < Thorn> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/st.com
2011-10-20T13:21:02 <+izua> didn't they have a shorter domain?
2011-10-20T13:21:02 < dekar_> I have build some stm32 based brute force hardware a year ago and it only takes 2 weeks
2011-10-20T13:21:04 <+izua> like isup.com?
2011-10-20T13:21:11 <+Steffanx> It's you Thorn
2011-10-20T13:21:14 <+Steffanx> It works perfectly
2011-10-20T13:21:23 <+Steffanx> Two weeks :)
2011-10-20T13:21:34 <+izua> dekar_: how many attempts/sec?
2011-10-20T13:21:40 < dekar_> izua, 10k I think
2011-10-20T13:21:45 < dekar_> depends on the slave though
2011-10-20T13:21:50 <+izua> (i assume you're talking about the stm32 based ones, not the ones with the ftdi)
2011-10-20T13:21:52 <+izua> yeah, obviously :)
2011-10-20T13:22:26 <+Steffanx> btw, the characters are no ascii characters are they dekar_ ?
2011-10-20T13:23:21 < dekar_> Steffanx, the MSA says the password has to be 31bit, though some vendors use the full 32bit. They don't say anything about ASCII so that's up to them
2011-10-20T13:23:30 <+Steffanx> Ah ok
2011-10-20T13:23:49 < dekar_> You enter it via i2c anyway
2011-10-20T13:24:28 < dekar_> I felt like hacking the firmware once I found out it was ARM code, haven't cracked any binaries for ages and this is my first ARM one :)
2011-10-20T13:24:51 <+Steffanx> Why ida is so expensive ?
2011-10-20T13:24:58 < dekar_> get the free one
2011-10-20T13:25:06 < dekar_> ida5 is free
2011-10-20T13:25:20 <+Steffanx> I mean, IDA isn't a piece of sw i would download using torrents
2011-10-20T13:25:58 < dekar_> it's actually freeware
2011-10-20T13:26:06 <+Steffanx> And it's windows only :(
2011-10-20T13:26:12 < dekar_> I use a VM for that
2011-10-20T13:26:18 < dekar_> and I don't think it is that expensive
2011-10-20T13:26:22 < dekar_> Altium is
2011-10-20T13:26:35 <+Steffanx> Altium is too
2011-10-20T13:26:40 < dekar_> the basic IDA version is like $500?
2011-10-20T13:26:41 <+izua> did your boss bitch when the ee guy requested an altium license?
2011-10-20T13:26:47 < dekar_> izua, not at all
2011-10-20T13:26:55 <+izua> :o
2011-10-20T13:27:01 <+izua> ask for a sports car
2011-10-20T13:27:01 <+Steffanx> :D\
2011-10-20T13:27:03 <+izua> for company use
2011-10-20T13:27:04 < dekar_> :)
2011-10-20T13:27:19 <+Steffanx> Lamborghini ftw ..
2011-10-20T13:27:33 < dekar_> Porsche :)
2011-10-20T13:27:52 <+Steffanx> No, that one is german
2011-10-20T13:27:57 <+izua> rofl
2011-10-20T13:27:59 <+izua> god damn it
2011-10-20T13:28:04 <+izua> i got some vps hosting
2011-10-20T13:28:09 <+izua> started compiling some shit
2011-10-20T13:28:20 <+Steffanx> Never try to compile shit
2011-10-20T13:28:20 <+izua> 10 minutes later admin calls me "your vps is using too much cpu"
2011-10-20T13:28:28 < dekar_> looool
2011-10-20T13:28:29 <+izua> "yeah, gentoo is a compile-based distro"
2011-10-20T13:28:32 <+izua> "wat"
2011-10-20T13:28:34 < Thorn> what vps provider?
2011-10-20T13:28:35 < dekar_> looooooooool
2011-10-20T13:28:40 < dekar_> XD
2011-10-20T13:28:43 <+izua> "yeah, you're offering it, so i chose that. i'm bootstrapping my system"
2011-10-20T13:28:50 <+izua> and i think he said something like FUUUUUUUUU
2011-10-20T13:28:52 <+izua> really close to it
2011-10-20T13:28:55 <+izua> and hung up
2011-10-20T13:28:59 <+izua> i lold
2011-10-20T13:29:08 < dekar_> get some proper hosting
2011-10-20T13:29:09 <+izua> Thorn: uh, some local one-man job
2011-10-20T13:29:14 < dekar_> OVH is decent and cheap
2011-10-20T13:29:18 <+izua> webfactor.ro
2011-10-20T13:29:33 < Thorn> linode or slicehost ftw
2011-10-20T13:29:33 <+izua> i'll check into it
2011-10-20T13:29:59 <+izua> i've been leaning to something local because a) it's a bitch to type and then wait for ssh to acknowledge that yes, you actually typed something
2011-10-20T13:30:13 <+Steffanx> :S
2011-10-20T13:30:35 <+izua> b) most web traffic will be generated by locals, and bandwidth is epic here
2011-10-20T13:30:39 < dekar_> http://www.kimsufi.co.uk/
2011-10-20T13:30:52 < dekar_> kimsufi special offers by ovh
2011-10-20T13:30:54 <+Steffanx> Both are in the US Thorn ?
2011-10-20T13:31:15 <+izua> oh.
2011-10-20T13:31:18 < Thorn> linode has datacenters in the US, London and I think Japan
2011-10-20T13:31:26 <+Steffanx> At least the offer something with enough RAM dekar_
2011-10-20T13:31:28 <+izua> i'm not interested in hardcore stuff, something cheap and low-power is enough. this one is €5/mo
2011-10-20T13:31:34 <+Steffanx> And diskspace
2011-10-20T13:31:41 <+izua> i used to check here for vps-es http://www.lowendbox.com/
2011-10-20T13:31:41 < dekar_> I hate VPS
2011-10-20T13:31:46 <+Steffanx> Why?
2011-10-20T13:31:51 < Thorn> cheapest linode is $20
2011-10-20T13:32:01 <+Steffanx>  /month Thorn ?
2011-10-20T13:32:05 < Thorn> yes
2011-10-20T13:32:11 < dekar_> I was hosting my forum on a VPS - you know... that 12k visits per day one
2011-10-20T13:32:28 < dekar_> it was like constantly overworked
2011-10-20T13:32:36 <+Steffanx> You probably used a poor designed forum?
2011-10-20T13:32:37 <+izua> was it slower than the church of scientrollogy on 4chan day?
2011-10-20T13:32:38 < dekar_> and it wasn't even an uber cheapish one
2011-10-20T13:32:44 < dekar_> Steffanx, PHP
2011-10-20T13:32:46 < Thorn> most hosting providers oversubscribe
2011-10-20T13:32:51 <+Steffanx> You wrote it yourself dekar_ ?
2011-10-20T13:32:59 <+Steffanx> or that phpbb crap?
2011-10-20T13:33:05 < dekar_> it was hosteurope and I paid like 20€/month
2011-10-20T13:33:11 < dekar_> I don't think they oversell
2011-10-20T13:33:17 < dekar_> I just needed better performance
2011-10-20T13:33:34 < dekar_> also the performance was unreliable, sometimes it dropped pretty hard
2011-10-20T13:33:40 < Thorn> I run a whole lot on my linode including phpbb, no probs
2011-10-20T13:33:44 < dekar_> phpbb yeah
2011-10-20T13:34:32 < dekar_> so I switched over from that 20€/month VPS to an 17€/month dual atom by OVH - it ran soooo much better
2011-10-20T13:34:59 < Laurenceb> is st.com up?
2011-10-20T13:35:02 < dekar_> finally I teamed up with a friend and we got some beast of a server (quadcore and shit)
2011-10-20T13:35:06 < Laurenceb> i cant access it
2011-10-20T13:35:26 < dekar_> down for me
2011-10-20T13:35:33 < Thorn> I did manage to get my datasheets a few minutes ago
2011-10-20T13:35:49 < Laurenceb> grr
2011-10-20T13:35:58 < Laurenceb> it keeps timing out when i try to get datasheets
2011-10-20T13:36:19 < dekar_> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website/STM32%20(ARM%20Cortex%20M3)%20-%2032-bit%20Microcontrollers%20-%20Technical%20Literature%20and%20Support%20Files.html
2011-10-20T13:36:34 <+Steffanx> www.st.com is up :P
2011-10-20T13:36:34 < Thorn> so 103 has 144-pin packages with full FSMC and SDIO but no ethernet, 107 has ethernet but 100 pins max, no sdio
2011-10-20T13:36:36 <+Steffanx> st.com isn't
2011-10-20T13:36:37 < dekar_> my mirror :)
2011-10-20T13:36:53 < Laurenceb> nice
2011-10-20T13:37:17 < dekar_> but yeah www.st.com works
2011-10-20T13:37:23 < Laurenceb> yeah
2011-10-20T13:38:51 < dekar_> ethernet sounds cool, I want to telnet my µC :D
2011-10-20T13:40:23 <+izua> hehehe
2011-10-20T13:40:29 <+izua> i wonder if there's a neat stack out there yet
2011-10-20T13:40:45 <+izua> utcp i think was the best one yet, and microchips' one was pretty decent too
2011-10-20T13:40:46 < Thorn> there're some open source ones
2011-10-20T13:41:10 < dekar_> install linux and you're good to go :)
2011-10-20T13:41:35 < Thorn> you'll need cortex-a for linux
2011-10-20T13:42:01 < Thorn> BGA, BGA everywhere
2011-10-20T13:42:03 < dekar_> Thorn, it actually has been ported to STM32
2011-10-20T13:42:16 < Thorn> ucLinux?
2011-10-20T13:42:19 < dekar_> yeah
2011-10-20T13:42:28 <+izua> uclinux is crap :P
2011-10-20T13:42:32 < dekar_> why?
2011-10-20T13:42:41 <+izua> brb, thinking of a lame argument
2011-10-20T13:42:46 < dekar_> :D
2011-10-20T13:42:46 < Thorn> that's a pretty castrated version is it not
2011-10-20T13:42:54 <+izua> but anyway, it's more of a .. hmm.. micro rtos so to say
2011-10-20T13:42:55 < dekar_> Thorn, how is it castrated?
2011-10-20T13:43:04 < dekar_> it's pretty much vanilla kernel these days
2011-10-20T13:43:15 <+izua> not sure if it can really use actual linux packages
2011-10-20T13:43:25 <+izua> most probably not, since it's designed for mmuless archs anyway
2011-10-20T13:43:27 < dekar_> it is 99% the vanilla linux kernel
2011-10-20T13:43:27 < Thorn> can you fit a lot of linux into 64Kb (or less) of RAM?
2011-10-20T13:43:30 <+izua> does it have networking?
2011-10-20T13:43:40 < dekar_> izua, it has everything
2011-10-20T13:43:52 < dekar_> just some workarounds for the lack of MMU
2011-10-20T13:43:59 < dekar_> no memory protection
2011-10-20T13:44:11 <+izua> oh neat
2011-10-20T13:44:17 <+izua> gonna install apache+php then
2011-10-20T13:44:25 < dekar_> :D
2011-10-20T13:44:37 < dekar_> you'll need like 64mb SRAM to do that
2011-10-20T13:44:56 <+izua> dude
2011-10-20T13:45:08 < dekar_> but it would work
2011-10-20T13:45:12 <+izua> what's the name of the virtual device that has every kernel compile option?
2011-10-20T13:45:27 <+izua> settings.conf etc
2011-10-20T13:45:27 < dekar_> dunno what you mean
2011-10-20T13:45:30 <+izua> uh
2011-10-20T13:45:41 <+izua> when you compile your kernel, there's an option somewhere to make a block device
2011-10-20T13:45:56 <+izua> and if you cat that device, you'll see what has been compiled into the current kernel
2011-10-20T13:46:06 <+izua> ah well
2011-10-20T13:46:12 < dekar_> hm idk, not that into gentoo usually
2011-10-20T13:46:24 <+izua> if you can actually install actual packages on uclinux, that's very neat
2011-10-20T13:46:27 < dekar_> I've compiled my own kernels like 10 times tops
2011-10-20T13:46:39 <+izua> ah, it's a linux kernel option, not really related to gentoo
2011-10-20T13:46:52 < dekar_> why would you need it without gentoo?
2011-10-20T13:47:05 < dekar_> it sounds like a way to verify you fucked up configuring your kernel
2011-10-20T13:47:21 < dekar_> like when you realize you have no USB support XD
2011-10-20T13:47:22 <+izua> nah, i wanna get a newer kernel on this vps, but i'm not sure what to put into it
2011-10-20T13:47:39 <+izua> 2.6.18 lol
2011-10-20T13:47:46 < dekar_> is it xen?
2011-10-20T13:47:54 < dekar_> the host boots the kernel
2011-10-20T13:47:55 <+izua> bah, it probably has a kernel with everything compiled in anyway
2011-10-20T13:47:58 < dekar_> you can't install one
2011-10-20T13:48:06 <+izua> hm
2011-10-20T13:48:14 <+izua> nah i think it's openvz
2011-10-20T13:48:17 <+izua> but that's also contained
2011-10-20T13:48:19 <+izua> so.. eh
2011-10-20T13:48:23 <+izua> i'm stuck with 2.6.18 it seems
2011-10-20T13:48:44 < Thorn> they even ported asterisk to uclinux (for blackfin)
2011-10-20T13:48:58 <+izua> python? :o
2011-10-20T13:49:06 < Thorn> http://www.astfin.org/
2011-10-20T13:52:13 < Thorn> no, really, I don't see much point in running linux with so little ram. sure you can use a high end stm32 with external sram but bigger arms may even be cheaper (and certainly far more powerful)
2011-10-20T13:53:23 <+izua> heh
2011-10-20T13:53:26 <+izua> a lot of things are pointless
2011-10-20T13:54:18 <+izua> i realised that a lot of my past projects could simply be done by having a nettop style mobo with a parallel port and linux installed, instead of making my own boards, microcontroller code, etc :P
2011-10-20T13:57:54 < dekar_> yeah you need some healthy dose of pragmatism to work efficient
2011-10-20T13:58:57 <+izua> eh, it's just the fact that at the moment it seemed the best decision
2011-10-20T13:59:16 < dekar_> hacking stuff makes you pretty efficient at making those decisions though, you usually search for the weakest link to attack
2011-10-20T13:59:16 <+izua> for example with this welding automation, it seemed better to have something built like a tank and dedicated
2011-10-20T13:59:39 <+izua> but in the end i should have built it the easiest way - for me - and not give a shit
2011-10-20T13:59:47 < dekar_> izua, the customer probably wouldn't have cared anyway
2011-10-20T13:59:52 <+izua> nah
2011-10-20T14:00:00 <+izua> they would, lemme tell you how i figured this out
2011-10-20T14:00:30 <+izua> yesterday some tard worker put the mechanics up on the workpiece, which was over some tank
2011-10-20T14:00:50 <+izua> forget to strap himself in, fell, dragged the machine down and it cut the wires, heh
2011-10-20T14:00:57 < dekar_> just use the oracle kernel and tell them you installed "unbreakable linux" by oracle! (which implies it's unbreakable and backed by a big company)
2011-10-20T14:01:09 <+izua> now, the whole deal survived, but they don't want to admit it's actually their mistake and that the wires were simply bad etc
2011-10-20T14:01:42 <+izua> if it was a computer in a box with an lcd, it would have been shattered to pieces and they'd have to pay me to buy a new one + extra hours
2011-10-20T14:01:47 < BrainDamage> dekar_: do they have some clause for "bad installation"? othewise sounds like an excellent scapegoat in the case of a problem
2011-10-20T14:01:59 < BrainDamage> possibly a totally unrelated one :p
2011-10-20T14:02:35 <+izua> dekar_: you could have probably done the same thing with actual boxes
2011-10-20T14:02:57 <+izua> instead of cracking passwords with a stm32, you could have simply used boxes with paraports, etc
2011-10-20T14:03:19 < dekar_> izua, nope, if the flexbox was a PC it would be uber big
2011-10-20T14:03:30 < dekar_> also they don't support USB slave
2011-10-20T14:03:36 < dekar_> and can't be powered via USB
2011-10-20T14:04:22 < dekar_> izua, I did use the STM32 to do that since I had the flexbox2 firmware anyway
2011-10-20T14:04:28 < dekar_> just added a loop to it
2011-10-20T14:05:31 < dekar_> I probably could have used a pandaboard
2011-10-20T14:05:43 < dekar_> but well, stm32 is way cheaper
2011-10-20T14:06:03 < dekar_> and we sold like 150 of those flexbox1 already
2011-10-20T14:06:59 <+izua> nah, not a pc, one of those small mobos
2011-10-20T14:07:01 < Thorn> btw, is pandaboard still export controlled?
2011-10-20T14:07:10 < dekar_> Thorn, dunno
2011-10-20T14:07:15 <+izua> which are well.. smaller
2011-10-20T14:07:21 <+izua> how big was teh initial board?
2011-10-20T14:07:32 < dekar_> izua, about the size of a cd
2011-10-20T14:07:44 < dekar_> still how do you control a pc via usb?
2011-10-20T14:08:13 <+izua> you don't. they have ethernet, etc :D
2011-10-20T14:08:29 < dekar_> izua, or you could just add an lcd to begin with :)
2011-10-20T14:08:33 <+izua> or that.
2011-10-20T14:08:44 <+izua> at least that would have been worth the money :P
2011-10-20T14:08:49 < dekar_> XD
2011-10-20T14:09:09 < dekar_> the money isn't for the flexbox, it's for the software license
2011-10-20T14:09:19 < dekar_> flexbox starter and pro share the same hardware
2011-10-20T14:09:21 <+izua> yeah yeah,i know :P
2011-10-20T14:09:30 <+izua> lockware xD
2011-10-20T14:09:35 < dekar_> totally
2011-10-20T14:10:10 < dekar_> it's funny how I fight DRM for my living (hacking proprietary firmwares to steal passwords) and then we just add another layer of DRM to limit our customers
2011-10-20T14:10:33 < dekar_> pretty ironic :)
2011-10-20T14:10:50 < dekar_> without DRM our company wouldn't exist
2011-10-20T14:30:49 < BrainDamage> do you actually like the DRM concept?
2011-10-20T14:46:03 < grummund> How can i hardcode a branch address in asm?
2011-10-20T14:46:20 < grummund> instead of: bl main
2011-10-20T14:46:28 < grummund> i tried: bl 8000120
2011-10-20T14:47:03 < grummund> but the syntax is not right i think
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2011-10-20T14:50:28 < Thorn> bl takes relative addresses I believe
2011-10-20T14:50:53 < grummund> ah ok
2011-10-20T14:51:09 < grummund> it's that i spotted the address used in the vector table for main is +1 actual address of main()
2011-10-20T14:51:33 < Thorn> it means thumb mode
2011-10-20T14:52:16 < grummund> 08000000 <g_pfnVectors>: 8000000:	00 50 00 20 21 01 00 08 cd 01 00 08 d9 01 00 08     .P. !...........
2011-10-20T14:52:38 < grummund> 080016f8 <Reset_Handler>:
2011-10-20T14:52:45 < grummund>  80016f8:f7fe fd12 bl8000120 <main>
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2011-10-20T14:53:08 < grummund> the vector table has 0x8000121
2011-10-20T14:53:33 < grummund> the jump to main inserted directly after Reset_Handler, has: 0x8000120
2011-10-20T14:54:02 -!- izua_ is now known as izua
2011-10-20T14:57:40 < grummund> replacing main in the vector table with Reset_Handler, as it was:
2011-10-20T14:57:47 < grummund> 08000000 <g_pfnVectors>:
2011-10-20T14:57:56 < grummund>  8000000:00 50 00 20 f8 16 00 08 cd 01 00 08 d9 01 00 08     .P. ............
2011-10-20T14:58:05 < grummund> 080016f8 <Reset_Handler>:
2011-10-20T14:58:12 < grummund>  80016f8:f7fe fd12 bl8000120 <main>
2011-10-20T14:59:18 < grummund> so in the first case it puts main+1 in the vector table, and in the 2nd case it puts literally Reset_Handler in the vector table
2011-10-20T15:00:58 < Thorn> see this http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.faqs/ka12545.html
2011-10-20T15:01:17 < Thorn> "If the Reset vector is an even number, the processor will immediately call a Usage Fault of type INVSTATE"
2011-10-20T15:03:07 < grummund> hmm, so the startup code should not be compiled as thumb?
2011-10-20T15:03:22 < Thorn> everything should be compiled as thumb
2011-10-20T15:03:40 < Thorn> cortex-m does not support ARM mode at all
2011-10-20T15:05:16 < Thorn> it's just all vectors must be actual address+1 including the reset vector
2011-10-20T15:05:43 < grummund> yay!
2011-10-20T15:06:17 < grummund> manually edited the binary file to put +1 on the vector to Reset_Handler, and it BLINKS!
2011-10-20T15:06:45 < Thorn> it didn't do that automatically?
2011-10-20T15:07:10 < grummund> no, see above... f8 16 00 08
2011-10-20T15:07:11 < Thorn> maybe no -march -mcpu flags?
2011-10-20T15:08:57 < Thorn> we need a step-by-step "what to do if my blinky doesn't" manual
2011-10-20T15:09:10 < grummund> hehe
2011-10-20T15:10:07 < grummund> would be so nice if ST simply provided a working set of templates
2011-10-20T15:11:22 < Thorn> it's best if you understand all the parts :)
2011-10-20T15:11:40 < Thorn> working templates won't give people an incentive for that (see arduino crowd)
2011-10-20T15:13:06 <+izua> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/20/0311234/eu-debates-installing-a-black-box-on-your-computer
2011-10-20T15:13:14 < grummund> well i suppose it's no different with any of the stm32 ready-to-go commercial IDEs
2011-10-20T15:15:49 < Thorn> probably
2011-10-20T15:16:21 < Thorn> well, congrats on the blinky :) (but do get a working gdb)
2011-10-20T15:16:42 < grummund> at some point i will build the full toolchain from source
2011-10-20T15:17:04 < grummund> i just *thought* it would be easier to start with a pre-built toolchain :P
2011-10-20T15:17:31 < Thorn> codesourcery, yagarto and others do include gdb
2011-10-20T15:18:48 < grummund> i use Cygwin a lot, so it seemed like a good idea at the time...
2011-10-20T15:23:20 < dekar_> BrainDamage, I won't complain over the hand that feeds me :P
2011-10-20T15:23:39 < dekar_> I guess my position is rather neutral
2011-10-20T15:24:09 < dekar_> I use a lot of open source (I use linux as my primary OS)
2011-10-20T15:24:30 < dekar_> But I like freedom and freedom also involves being able to build DRM and use it
2011-10-20T15:24:41 < dekar_> it's ciscos personal freedom to cripple their products
2011-10-20T15:25:19 < dekar_> it's about the same opinion I have concerning the GPL, IMO it limits your freedom so I prefer BSD style licenses or simply Public Domain
2011-10-20T15:27:33 < dekar_> anyway gtg
2011-10-20T15:31:22 < grummund> arm-elf-as  -mcpu=cortex-m3 -mthumb  -o startup_stm32f10x_md.o startup_stm32f10x_md.s
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2011-10-20T15:32:04 < grummund> as such it puts even address in the vector table
2011-10-20T15:36:37 < Thorn> does your link command have -mcpu=cortex-m3 -mthumb?
2011-10-20T15:38:38 < grummund> it didn't, but adding that does not alter the binary image
2011-10-20T15:40:29 < grummund> this really could only be one of two things:
2011-10-20T15:40:47 < grummund> 1) i'm not supplying the correct options
2011-10-20T15:40:55 < grummund> 2) the toolchain is buggy
2011-10-20T15:41:20 < Thorn> try another toolchain
2011-10-20T15:44:57 < grummund> g_pfnVectors:
2011-10-20T15:45:23 < grummund>   .word _estack
2011-10-20T15:45:35 < grummund>   .word Reset_Handler + 1
2011-10-20T15:45:43 < grummund> hehe. :P
2011-10-20T15:45:49 < grummund> it works :)
2011-10-20T15:46:20 < Thorn> well that shouldn't really be required...
2011-10-20T15:46:33 < Thorn> make sure to +1 all vectors then
2011-10-20T15:48:30 < grummund> the others are already all odd
2011-10-20T15:48:48 < grummund> except the first, _estack
2011-10-20T15:49:11 < Thorn> that's correct, it should be last ram address +1
2011-10-20T15:49:43 < Thorn> which is even
2011-10-20T15:50:06 < grummund> so only the Reset_Handler vector was faulty
2011-10-20T15:50:08 < grummund> it seems
2011-10-20T15:50:17 < Thorn> that's even more strange
2011-10-20T15:51:35 < grummund> afaics it's also the only symbol actually defined in the startup file
2011-10-20T15:53:05 < grummund> better check this working project into svn real quick ;)
2011-10-20T15:53:25 < grummund> thanks ever so much for the assistance, Thorn :)
2011-10-20T15:53:54 < Thorn> I dod objdump startup.s on my stm32 project and .isr_vector is all zeros
2011-10-20T15:53:59 < Thorn> *did
2011-10-20T15:54:17 < Thorn> so it must be the linker which fills it out
2011-10-20T16:08:59 < grummund> i guess it would have to be
2011-10-20T16:09:34 < Thorn> but all symbol table values are even
2011-10-20T16:10:12 < grummund> $ arm-elf-objdump --full-contents startup_stm32f10x_md.o
2011-10-20T16:10:20 < grummund> Contents of section .isr_vector:
2011-10-20T16:10:30 < grummund>  0000 00000000 01000000 00000000 00000000  ................
2011-10-20T16:10:38 < grummund>  0010 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000  ................
2011-10-20T16:10:44 < grummund> ...
2011-10-20T16:10:54 < grummund>  0100 00000000 00000000 5ff808f1           ........_...
2011-10-20T16:11:38 < Thorn> last word is BootRAM (defined in the .s file)
2011-10-20T16:12:02 < grummund> ok, so the 01000000 is my relative address hack (.wordReset_Handler + 1)
2011-10-20T16:16:02 < Thorn> wait a sec... your toolchain isn't eabi right?
2011-10-20T16:16:18 < grummund> arm-elf-*
2011-10-20T16:17:09 < Thorn> so maybe that's the problem. eabi target is suppored to put symbol attributes into .ARM.attributes, and the linker should use them
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2011-10-20T16:17:38 < Thorn> that's my limited understanding anyway. it's possible that this is what's not happening
2011-10-20T16:24:55 < grummund> $ arm-elf-objdump --full-contents startup_stm32f10x_md.o
2011-10-20T16:25:01 < grummund> Contents of section .ARM.attributes:
2011-10-20T16:25:08 < grummund>  0000 410f0000 00616561 62690001 05000000  A....aeabi......
2011-10-20T16:35:58 < Thorn> 0000 41200000 00616561 62690001 16000000  A ...aeabi......
2011-10-20T16:35:58 < Thorn>  0010 05436f72 7465782d 4d330006 0a074d09  .Cortex-M3....M.
2011-10-20T16:35:58 < Thorn>  0020 02                                   .
2011-10-20T16:38:40 < grummund> what a journey :P
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2011-10-20T19:35:40 <@jpa-> Steffanx: i never reconnect :)
2011-10-20T20:08:16 <+Steffanx> Yes you do
2011-10-20T20:08:51 <+Steffanx> im pretty sure i've seen you disconnect a few times jpa-
2011-10-20T20:14:11 <@jpa-> no way
2011-10-20T20:14:14 <@jpa-> that does not happen
2011-10-20T20:15:14 <+Steffanx> Facts happen(ed)
2011-10-20T20:16:15  * jpa- is a bit horrified.. my pcb is in production now
2011-10-20T20:16:56 <@jpa-> the last one i made at home was very simple, and yet i counted 2 major flaws and 3 minor bugs on it :F
2011-10-20T20:17:22 <+Steffanx> Where did you order it?
2011-10-20T20:17:31 <@jpa-> seeed
2011-10-20T20:17:39 <@jpa-> also ordered dso quad :P~~~
2011-10-20T20:17:47 <+Steffanx> Cheapish, so errors are acceptable
2011-10-20T20:17:55 <+Steffanx> DSO Quad with free virus :)
2011-10-20T20:18:20 <@jpa-> virus :o
2011-10-20T20:18:25 <@jpa-> will it steal my firmware?
2011-10-20T20:19:28 <+Steffanx> Nah, there was a forum post about it
2011-10-20T20:19:30 <+Steffanx> somewhere
2011-10-20T20:20:50 <+Steffanx> http://www.seeedstudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2128&hilit=virus
2011-10-20T20:20:56 <+Steffanx> There it is jpa-
2011-10-20T20:20:59 <+Steffanx> Conficker :)
2011-10-20T20:21:40 <@jpa-> not like it touches my linux :)
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2011-10-20T21:39:18 <+Steffanx> "error: declaration does not declare anything" .. a declaration that does not declare anything is still a declaration?
2011-10-20T21:40:00 < BrainDamage> great, now the compilers went filosophical
2011-10-20T21:43:17 <@jpa-> sdcc told me one day: gprs.c:82: warning 110: conditional flow changed by optimizer: so said EVELYN the modified DOG
2011-10-20T21:44:05 <+Steffanx> :D
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2011-10-21T01:01:17 < dekar_> izua_, http://pastebin.com/6iar3RLn
2011-10-21T01:01:35 < dekar_> I wonder whether that has defined behavior
2011-10-21T01:01:47 <+Steffanx> Yay?
2011-10-21T01:02:20 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2011-10-21T01:02:27 < dekar_> GCC doesn't understand the code and complains it might not return even though it's non void type
2011-10-21T01:02:31 < dekar_> stupid GCC :P
2011-10-21T01:03:34 <+Steffanx> It's not smart enough to optimize it away?
2011-10-21T01:03:50 < dekar_> Steffanx, optimize what away?
2011-10-21T01:03:57 <+Steffanx> Everything :P
2011-10-21T01:04:05 < dekar_> how would it do that?
2011-10-21T01:04:18 < dekar_> it checks whether the input equals 42
2011-10-21T01:04:29 <+Steffanx> Just return 0 ? :P
2011-10-21T01:04:59 < dekar_> if the input is 42 it returns 1
2011-10-21T01:05:17 < dekar_> Steffanx, learn C n00b :P
2011-10-21T01:05:22 <+Steffanx> Ah, ofcourse
2011-10-21T01:05:38 <+Steffanx> I knew that :P
2011-10-21T01:05:45 < dekar_> sure you did
2011-10-21T01:05:53 <+Steffanx> Yeah, it's 00:00 :P
2011-10-21T01:05:59 <+Steffanx> *6
2011-10-21T01:06:10  * Steffanx = in bed 
2011-10-21T01:06:11 <+Steffanx> :P
2011-10-21T01:06:13 < dekar_> I am not too sure whether the code has defined behavior though
2011-10-21T01:06:30 < dekar_> I guess so, but I don't know
2011-10-21T01:06:48 <+Steffanx> You mean if it can change the order of the statement?
2011-10-21T01:07:11 < dekar_> Steffanx, or just always evaluate both
2011-10-21T01:07:13 <+izua_> dekar_: probably needs two return paths
2011-10-21T01:07:22 <+izua_> if .. return; else .. return;
2011-10-21T01:07:29 < dekar_> izua_, what do you mean? why would it?
2011-10-21T01:07:34 < dekar_> izua_, it's always true
2011-10-21T01:08:01 <+izua_> true, but i was thinking why would it bitch
2011-10-21T01:08:07 <+izua_> || 1 is always true, yes
2011-10-21T01:08:22 < dekar_> oh yeah GCC complains, but that's just a warning
2011-10-21T01:08:31 <+izua_> s/warning/bitching
2011-10-21T01:08:44 < dekar_> I was worrying whether it might evaluate both on some compilers
2011-10-21T01:08:57 < dekar_> I am not too sure whether it is guaranteed to work on all C compilers
2011-10-21T01:09:15 < dekar_> if the compiler would change the order it would mess up
2011-10-21T01:09:33 <+izua_> --w is boss
2011-10-21T01:09:49 <+izua_> it should evaluate to true
2011-10-21T01:10:35 <+izua_> there is a term for the following case: if (false && true)
2011-10-21T01:10:42 <+Steffanx> I always trust my compiler to not do thet dekar_ :P
2011-10-21T01:10:56 <+izua_> whereas, true is never evaluated as a second condition if the first one is false
2011-10-21T01:11:10 <+izua_> however, that might not apply here, since it's ¦|ed
2011-10-21T01:11:25 < Laurenceb_> you need to compile... like a boss
2011-10-21T01:12:02 <+Steffanx> I love VB's version .. AndAlso or OrElse :)
2011-10-21T01:12:11 <+izua_> lol
2011-10-21T01:12:16 <+izua_> .With Form1
2011-10-21T01:12:21 < dekar_> I am glad I never touched VB :)
2011-10-21T01:12:23 <+izua_> .Caption = "Hai World"
2011-10-21T01:12:28 <+izua_> you missed out your childhood
2011-10-21T01:12:31 <+Steffanx> VB.net isn't that bad imho
2011-10-21T01:12:36 <+Steffanx> Nor worse than C#
2011-10-21T01:12:40 <+Steffanx> *not
2011-10-21T01:12:49 < BrainDamage> I remember using graphical containers as arrays
2011-10-21T01:12:53 < dekar_> I'd rather go Java
2011-10-21T01:12:59 < BrainDamage> when iterating it was visibly shifting the selection
2011-10-21T01:13:18 < BrainDamage> my pc grinding just  to iterate a 1k elements vector
2011-10-21T01:14:18 < dekar_> I heard the German version of VB6 had translated commands, so "if" was "wenn" and "goto" was "gehezu"
2011-10-21T01:14:26 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-21T01:14:42 <+Steffanx> In dutch it would be even worse
2011-10-21T01:15:03 <+izua_> wtf
2011-10-21T01:15:04 <+Steffanx> "Wanneer " "GaNaar"
2011-10-21T01:15:09 <+izua_> why would they do that
2011-10-21T01:15:15 <+Steffanx> It's nice
2011-10-21T01:15:24 < dekar_> the point was you couldn't compile a German App using an english VB6
2011-10-21T01:15:25 < dekar_> XD
2011-10-21T01:16:00 <+izua_> i bet there were source code translators, also written in vb
2011-10-21T01:16:09 <+izua_> which would fuck up on comments that include "if" or "wenn"
2011-10-21T01:16:28 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-21T01:17:35 < dekar_> izua_, I bought one of those: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantain
2011-10-21T01:17:54 < dekar_> but I just read if I don't wanna cook it I have to wait till it's black and moldy
2011-10-21T01:18:20 < dekar_> it's just yellow though, looks like a banana
2011-10-21T01:18:26 < dekar_> bit more ugly I guess
2011-10-21T01:18:42 < BrainDamage> buy a durian
2011-10-21T01:19:02 < dekar_> BrainDamage, I will
2011-10-21T01:19:10 < dekar_> I actually bought jackfruit as well
2011-10-21T01:19:19 < dekar_> it's canned
2011-10-21T01:19:19 < BrainDamage> I pity anyone around you then
2011-10-21T01:19:26 < dekar_> unripe jackfruit in salt water
2011-10-21T01:20:24 < dekar_> I heard Durian has this nice vanilla yogurt like taste - like yogurt which stood in the sun for 3 weeks
2011-10-21T01:21:37 <+Steffanx> :S
2011-10-21T01:21:43 < dekar_> I only realized the jackfruit wasn't even ripe when I arrived at home again
2011-10-21T01:21:53 < dekar_> so I only bought unripe fruits today
2011-10-21T01:21:54 <+Steffanx> Poor you
2011-10-21T01:21:55 < dekar_> -.-"
2011-10-21T01:22:32 <+Steffanx> Not?
2011-10-21T01:22:46 < dekar_> You're sooo cruel ;(
2011-10-21T01:23:18 <+Steffanx> Yes
2011-10-21T01:24:08 < dekar_> ever had Plantain?
2011-10-21T01:24:13 < dekar_> I never had one before
2011-10-21T01:24:55 <+Steffanx> Nope
2011-10-21T01:25:11 <+Steffanx> I never eat exotic food like that
2011-10-21T01:25:32 < dekar_> Steffanx, you sound like a boring person
2011-10-21T01:25:41 <+Steffanx> I just don't like it
2011-10-21T01:25:49 <+Steffanx> Give the good old dutch food
2011-10-21T01:25:56 < dekar_> I rather buy stuff just to find out it isn't even ripe :D
2011-10-21T01:26:35 <+Steffanx> I can't cook either, so i screw everything up
2011-10-21T01:27:04 < dekar_> I only cook thai curry since it tastes epic and is uber easy to cook :D
2011-10-21T01:27:37 <+Steffanx> Grünkohl ftw :P
2011-10-21T01:27:47 < dekar_> Since I started cooking with MSG people really love my food :)
2011-10-21T01:28:50 < dekar_> MSG is weird shit, tastes like soap - rotten soap - if you eat it pure
2011-10-21T01:29:09 < BrainDamage> ok, I definetly need more fresh air
2011-10-21T01:29:23 < BrainDamage> for a moment I tought soap as in the internet protocol
2011-10-21T01:29:34 < BrainDamage> and I was like, "wtf? that horrible ?"
2011-10-21T01:29:35 <+Steffanx> MSG ?
2011-10-21T01:30:37 < grummund> http://www.truthinlabeling.org/Cartoon.Stein.wsj033183+.jpg
2011-10-21T01:30:41 < dekar_> MSG is the stuff that makes food taste epic
2011-10-21T01:31:56 < dekar_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate
2011-10-21T01:32:32 <+Steffanx> Yeah, my google skills helped me ou
2011-10-21T01:32:32 <+Steffanx> t
2011-10-21T01:32:37 <+Steffanx> We need a google bot here
2011-10-21T01:34:27 < dekar_> MSG is really cheap as well, I bought like 100g for 50c
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2011-10-21T11:01:39 <+Steffanx> orrgen!
2011-10-21T11:01:45 <+Steffanx> Hmpf
2011-10-21T11:01:59 <+Steffanx> *morning
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2011-10-21T11:07:04 < grummund> Spreekt hier iemand Engels?
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2011-10-21T11:43:42 <+Steffanx> Google translate grummund ?
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2011-10-21T11:46:37 < grummund> just testing my phrase book :P
2011-10-21T11:47:41 <+Steffanx> I would've said "Spreekt iemand hier Engels", but your version is correct too :P
2011-10-21T12:25:20 < dekar_> it's so similar to German: "Spricht hier jemand Englisch?"
2011-10-21T12:26:05 <+Steffanx> Yeah, :)
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2011-10-21T13:54:28 < grummund> When using the ST stdperiph library in a project, do people tend to just copy in the needed files, or maintain the complete stdperiph library tree as part of the project?
2011-10-21T13:57:56 <+Steffanx> I kept everything
2011-10-21T13:58:06 <+Steffanx> but i'm lazy
2011-10-21T14:00:55 < karl_> eventually people will tidy up the stdperiph tree and makefiles, and make something like a nice library that can be linked against
2011-10-21T14:37:15 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/20/details_on_big_little_processing/
2011-10-21T14:37:18 < Laurenceb> interesting
2011-10-21T14:41:01 < CheBuzz> Is there a good list anywhere of what pins are 5V compatible on the STM32?  Specificially the F2 series?
2011-10-21T14:41:52 <+Steffanx> Yeah there is
2011-10-21T14:43:23 < CheBuzz> Any hint as to where?  I don't find that at all in the datasheet.
2011-10-21T14:43:46 <+Steffanx> It's in the datahseet
2011-10-21T14:44:41 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20111021-134429.png
2011-10-21T14:45:06 <@jpa-> the arrow <3
2011-10-21T14:45:08 <+Steffanx> So the table in the "Pinouts and pin description" chracter
2011-10-21T14:45:12 <+Steffanx> *capter
2011-10-21T14:45:20 <+Steffanx> +h
2011-10-21T14:45:24 <+Steffanx> So Chapter :P
2011-10-21T14:45:53 <+Steffanx> FT = 5V tolerant
2011-10-21T14:46:44 < CheBuzz> Ah, that makes sense now.
2011-10-21T14:46:57 <+Steffanx> Nice, almost all pins of the f20x are 5v tolerant
2011-10-21T14:48:36 < CheBuzz> Steffanx, thank you for the help.
2011-10-21T14:48:53 <+Steffanx> np
2011-10-21T15:07:49 < karl_> what's DSB1?
2011-10-21T15:08:17 <+Steffanx> Where do you read that?
2011-10-21T15:11:53 < karl_> wanted to see if you had a blog or something at naffets
2011-10-21T15:12:02 < karl_> it's at /share
2011-10-21T15:18:25 <+Steffanx> Oh, some old school stuff karl_
2011-10-21T15:22:43 <+Steffanx> Now it's gone :)
2011-10-21T15:22:50 < karl_> :)
2011-10-21T15:36:14 < grummund> When is core_cm3.c needed?
2011-10-21T15:37:32 < grummund> The stm32f10x_*.c files have a dependency on core_cm3.h, but things seem fine without core_cm3.c
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2011-10-21T15:48:40 <@jpa-> grummund: if you want to set interrupt priorities
2011-10-21T15:49:24 < grummund> okey doke
2011-10-21T17:05:08 <+Steffanx> http://www.altera.com/b/soc-fpgas.html?WT.mc_id=sa_ba_tf_ee_bx_a_422 nice :)
2011-10-21T17:05:26 <+Steffanx> fpga+dual core a9
2011-10-21T17:07:09 <+Steffanx> And probably very expensive
2011-10-21T17:20:34 < Thorn> someone needs to use that in a consumer product so people can download peripherals
2011-10-21T17:22:33 < Thorn> virus writers will also have a field day though, they'll be able to destroy devices physically
2011-10-21T17:25:18 <+Steffanx> :)
2011-10-21T17:33:01 < grummund> Is there any extra special required to generate .hex instead of .bin ?
2011-10-21T17:33:35 <+Steffanx> i
2011-10-21T17:33:36 < karl_> different command to objcopy?
2011-10-21T17:33:43 <+Steffanx> changed it to hex, but i don't remember how
2011-10-21T17:33:59 < karl_> objcopy -O ihex instead of objcopy -O bin
2011-10-21T17:34:03 <+Steffanx> I can check either, because i just removed the vm
2011-10-21T17:34:07 < grummund> that's what i did
2011-10-21T17:34:08 <+Steffanx> I don't want to use windows anymore
2011-10-21T17:34:58 < grummund> from the same .elf file, but when flashed the target goes into HardFault (using the .hex file)
2011-10-21T17:35:09 < Thorn> $(OBJCOPY) -R .stack -O ihex $(PROJECT).elf $(PROJECT).hex
2011-10-21T17:35:28 < Thorn> zero idea what -R does
2011-10-21T17:35:42 < grummund> i will look...
2011-10-21T17:36:12 < karl_> remove section
2011-10-21T17:38:41 < grummund> um, unless perahps it's openocd screwing up (or me not supplying the right options)
2011-10-21T17:39:56 < grummund> probably the later :P
2011-10-21T17:42:07 < grummund> OpenOCD auto-detects the format, apparently.
2011-10-21T17:44:08  * Steffanx needs a farnell account
2011-10-21T18:01:49 <+Steffanx> Why it's so hard to get a few less standard components?
2011-10-21T18:03:14 < karl_> a conspiracy to keep the working man down?
2011-10-21T18:03:28 <+Steffanx> I guess so
2011-10-21T18:03:57 <+Steffanx> I only need a few 1.5 and 2.5V regulators .. :(
2011-10-21T18:05:10 <+Steffanx> I can get cheap LDO's, but those use more current than the circuit it has to power
2011-10-21T18:09:25 < grummund> i got a farnell account for the free shipping because i only need a few transistors
2011-10-21T18:09:33 < grummund> but then i felt bad about it and upped the order so it amounted to something ;)
2011-10-21T18:10:32 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but don't have a company so i have to order for at least 50 euro (irrc)
2011-10-21T18:10:34 <+Steffanx> *iirc
2011-10-21T18:10:43 < grummund> invent one ;)
2011-10-21T18:11:30 <+Steffanx> No, not an option
2011-10-21T18:12:26 < grummund> and you get 30 days to pay
2011-10-21T18:16:23 < grummund> Hmm, flashing .bin works ok, flashing .hex causes HardFault
2011-10-21T18:17:45 < Laurenceb> what were you expecting
2011-10-21T18:18:00 < Laurenceb> the programming software expects a binary
2011-10-21T18:18:18 < Laurenceb> so the stm is running invalid code
2011-10-21T18:18:21 < grummund> yet, "hex2bin blink.hex" creates anexact match for the blinky.bin that works
2011-10-21T18:18:54  * grummund was expecting OpenOCD to accept the .hex file
2011-10-21T18:19:02 < grummund> indeed it does appear to do that
2011-10-21T18:19:56 < grummund> except, you're right of course...
2011-10-21T18:27:08 < grummund> yay, it just needed a different openocd command
2011-10-21T18:34:22 < Laurenceb> nice
2011-10-21T18:34:58 < Laurenceb> itd be nice if ST made an stm32 with a switching 1.8v reg
2011-10-21T18:35:04 < Laurenceb> - core voltager
2011-10-21T18:35:57 < Laurenceb> actually no - you can run the whole thing on a low voltage as it is
2011-10-21T18:36:17 < Laurenceb> i was just thinking if you run it on 3.3v, and the core uses 1.8v, most of the power is wasted
2011-10-21T18:39:01 < grummund> not really sure the difference between write_image and write_bank, but it works
2011-10-21T18:40:09 < Laurenceb> one treats it as a flash image
2011-10-21T18:40:47 < grummund> i was using write_bank originally but it doesn't accept ihex
2011-10-21T19:43:21 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 12 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 9 normal]
2011-10-21T20:36:20 < grummund> Where's a good place to start with getting stm32 talking to PC via USB ?
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2011-10-21T21:57:18 <+Steffanx> Evening
2011-10-21T21:59:09 < Laurenceb_> hi
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 22 2011
2011-10-22T00:12:55 -!- TeknoJuce [~TeknoJuce@xbmc/staff/TeknoJuce] has joined ##stm32
2011-10-22T00:12:59 < karl_> hello there :)
2011-10-22T00:13:17 < TeknoJuce> Hello :)
2011-10-22T00:13:26 < karl_> sorry, no blog posts yet, was hoping to get some demo code up tonight, but stuck doing other computer maintenance
2011-10-22T00:13:48 < TeknoJuce> no worries if you get something up let me know!
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2011-10-22T00:16:36 <+Steffanx> karl_ you said it has os x support since yesterday, why i can't find it in the history?!
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2011-10-22T00:24:22 < TeknoJuce> ponders what the purpose was of putting a mini and micro usb jack on the ST32F4-discovery did they do that on the older plats
2011-10-22T00:25:07 <+Steffanx> karl_ according to the readme i still need that sg module, which isn't something os x has
2011-10-22T00:25:37 <+Steffanx> Uhm, the purpose TeknoJuce ? To demonstrate the DSP functionality of the f4 i guess
2011-10-22T00:25:37 < karl_> oh, readme needs updating, https://github.com/texane/stlink/commit/105e266a05bdc2ffefacedc7ffe9e23201a417f9
2011-10-22T00:25:47 < karl_> however, that also (currently) disables stlinkv1, which is on the VL board
2011-10-22T00:26:08 <+Steffanx> Yeah, so useless for me
2011-10-22T00:26:14 < karl_> sorry :)
2011-10-22T00:26:25 < karl_> there's a guy with stlinkv1 on the STM8, without libsg
2011-10-22T00:26:37 <+Steffanx> scsi, mass storage can't be implemented by libusb?
2011-10-22T00:26:39 < karl_> it  just has to be ported over to this code,
2011-10-22T00:26:40 < karl_> yeah
2011-10-22T00:26:41 < karl_> exactly,
2011-10-22T00:26:53 <+Steffanx> Or the stuff from iokit, don't know what's easier
2011-10-22T00:27:06 < karl_> https://github.com/texane/stlink/blob/master/TODO#L10
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2011-10-22T00:27:35 < karl_> code's there, a new guy, this bikenomad, seems to actually be on osx, so it should come in reasonably well now.
2011-10-22T00:27:49 < karl_> when it just goes to libusb, it actually starts working on windows as well then, in theory at least
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2011-10-22T00:28:35 < TeknoJuce> DSP requires a micro jack are they not virtually the same besides formfactor?
2011-10-22T00:28:37 <+Steffann> And you have to fix the tutorial, search for 'optionnal' :P
2011-10-22T00:28:47 <+Steffann> Oh, nvm
2011-10-22T00:28:57 < TeknoJuce> or are you talking about the audio 3.5mm jack
2011-10-22T00:29:22 < karl_> yeah, texane loves TeX, I would have written in in markdown or something
2011-10-22T00:29:30 < karl_> crazy academics :)
2011-10-22T00:30:32 <+Steffann> markdown looks ugly too
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2011-10-22T00:34:26 <+Steffann> I still wonder why the open source community has to make something like this
2011-10-22T00:34:46 <+Steffann> I mean.. ST has the manpower to fix it within a week
2011-10-22T00:35:03 < BrainDamage> week? they could've prepared it well before the release
2011-10-22T00:35:15 <+Steffann> That too
2011-10-22T00:35:43 <+Steffann> It shouldn't take that long when you know the exact protocol
2011-10-22T00:39:28 <+Steffann> I still have to find me a stm32f4 :)
2011-10-22T00:39:53 < BrainDamage> me too
2011-10-22T00:39:54 <+Steffann> Them seem to be out of stock almost everywhere ( and i've no credit card)
2011-10-22T00:40:23 < BrainDamage> I found sources, BUT, they charge me like 20$ for shipping since they are us based and I'm in italy
2011-10-22T00:40:29 < BrainDamage> mouser for instance
2011-10-22T00:40:32 <+Steffann> Im in NL :)
2011-10-22T00:40:56 <+Steffann> Mouser is free when you order > 50 euro or something like that
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2011-10-22T00:41:19 < BrainDamage> that'd mean additional expenses from customs tough
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2011-10-22T00:41:34 < BrainDamage> for less than 20€, I don't pay customs
2011-10-22T00:41:44 <+Steffann> Add 19% .. who cares :P
2011-10-22T00:43:07 < karl_> according to texane, who recently met with some of the ST hardware guys who made the discovery boards, the just didn't understand it was important
2011-10-22T00:43:10 < karl_> they're learning :)
2011-10-22T00:43:36 < karl_> they asked what sort of things they should put on these discovery boards to make them more appealing
2011-10-22T00:44:11 <+Steffann> He
2011-10-22T00:45:37 <+Steffann> Can't you order from it.mouser.com .. it seems to include the VAT
2011-10-22T00:46:03 <+Steffann> When it = italy
2011-10-22T00:46:17 < BrainDamage> I ordered some stuff from digikey that was supposed to include vat
2011-10-22T00:46:37 < BrainDamage> the courier made me pay VAT on price VAT
2011-10-22T00:46:46 <+Steffann> :S
2011-10-22T00:46:58 < BrainDamage> I tried complaning to digikey & courier to no effect
2011-10-22T00:47:26  * karl_ hates digikey
2011-10-22T00:47:36 < karl_> "do not split orders"
2011-10-22T00:47:57 < karl_> "oh hæ, we decided to backorder this, then overnight courier it to you later for a second shipping charge"
2011-10-22T00:48:08 < karl_> "please can I order 802.15.4 parts"
2011-10-22T00:48:08 <+Steffann> Hmpf, mouser expects new boards.. 9 week from now :(
2011-10-22T00:48:27 < karl_> "no, we prefer to never update paperwork even when the DOJ removes export restrictions"
2011-10-22T00:49:10 <+Steffann> Farnell's stock info is always wrong, so i never back order from farnell
2011-10-22T00:49:34 <+Steffann> So no stm32f4discovery for me i guess, or i have to make my own board
2011-10-22T00:49:45 < karl_> it will never be as cheap :)
2011-10-22T00:49:49 <+Steffann> No, never
2011-10-22T00:49:58 <+Steffann> I don't need the audio stuff though
2011-10-22T00:50:20 <+Steffann> I'm more interested in it's speed + more ram
2011-10-22T00:50:44 < BrainDamage> if you ever find a decent source in EU, please give a poke
2011-10-22T00:51:20 <+Steffann> Farnells prices are also price += 10-20%
2011-10-22T00:52:16 <+Steffann> Watterot has a product page for it, but no stock
2011-10-22T00:52:21 <+Steffann> watterot = germany
2011-10-22T00:53:15 < Thorn> one local distributor has STM32F407IGH6 in stock, another has several stm32f4 but not in stock
2011-10-22T00:54:44 <+Steffann> You're from russia, not?
2011-10-22T00:55:08 < Thorn> correct
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2011-10-22T00:55:27 < Thorn> they also list stm32f4discovery but it's not in stock
2011-10-22T00:55:43 <+Steffann> The good side of russia? So west from moscow? :P
2011-10-22T00:56:35 < Thorn> not really, one large distributor is pretty far to the east
2011-10-22T00:57:03 < Thorn> they even seem to offer free samples
2011-10-22T00:57:22 <+Steffann> Hehe
2011-10-22T00:57:39 < Eartaker> I ordered my sample and it said it was out of stock... got it the next week
2011-10-22T00:57:52 < Eartaker> http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp
2011-10-22T00:58:25 < dekar_> I am so glad I never have to pay for the stuff I order
2011-10-22T00:59:19 <+Steffann> stfu dekar_ :P
2011-10-22T00:59:27 <+Steffann> You're not allowed to talk :P
2011-10-22T00:59:48 < dekar_> Well actually it seems like I have to pay for that $1300 FPGA with my private account
2011-10-22T00:59:58 <+Steffann> :SS
2011-10-22T01:00:02 < dekar_> somehow they refuse our companies credit card
2011-10-22T01:00:03 < dekar_> dunno why
2011-10-22T01:00:05 <+Steffann> Wieso?
2011-10-22T01:00:12 <+Steffann> Oh, you'll get it back
2011-10-22T01:00:19 < dekar_> sure :P
2011-10-22T01:00:58 <+Steffann> Also get one for me :p
2011-10-22T01:01:15 < dekar_> Digikey told me "we failed to get a transaction authorization from your bank" twice already
2011-10-22T01:01:18 <+Steffann> You should get that new fpga
2011-10-22T01:01:33 < dekar_> which one?
2011-10-22T01:01:34 <+Steffann> FPGA + ARM Cortex-A9 MP
2011-10-22T01:01:40 < dekar_> altera?
2011-10-22T01:01:42 <+Steffann> Yeah
2011-10-22T01:01:50 < dekar_> do they have boards for that one?
2011-10-22T01:01:57 <+Steffann> Not sure
2011-10-22T01:02:00 <+Steffann> proably noy
2011-10-22T01:02:01 <+Steffann> t
2011-10-22T01:02:17 < dekar_> I'd go Cortex A9 over NIOS every day :)
2011-10-22T01:02:39 <+Steffann> http://www.altera.com/b/soc-fpgas.html?WT.mc_id=sa_ba_tf_ee_bx_a_422
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2011-10-22T01:03:51 <+Steffann> http://davidlynch.org/blog/2011/10/xss-is-fun/ LOL
2011-10-22T01:03:55 <+Steffann> They still didn't fix it
2011-10-22T01:04:36 < dekar_> I found several XSS on big german sites as well
2011-10-22T01:04:43 <+Steffann> At least cnn didn't
2011-10-22T01:05:04 < dekar_> reported at least 2, they never cared about it
2011-10-22T01:05:04 <+Steffann> Neither did foxnews
2011-10-22T01:05:18 <+Steffann> Yeah, sometimes they really don't care
2011-10-22T01:06:20 < dekar_> XSS are pretty boring anyway
2011-10-22T01:06:33 <+Steffann> Not if it's blackboard :P
2011-10-22T01:06:37 < dekar_> I did one really cool hack at some hacker contest a year ago
2011-10-22T01:06:45 <+Steffann> With thousands of users
2011-10-22T01:06:49 < dekar_> it was some ruby application
2011-10-22T01:07:15 < dekar_> they had this DNS resolver to check whether you're either localhost or at least in their internal network
2011-10-22T01:07:29 < dekar_> so the application was checking back google dns servers (8.8.8.8)
2011-10-22T01:07:49 < dekar_> and I spoofed a forged response package
2011-10-22T01:07:57 <+Steffann> yay
2011-10-22T01:08:39 < dekar_> so when it checked my ip I also sent the answer for their DNS request before google actually answered
2011-10-22T01:09:10 < dekar_> that was actually the sign up for that hacking lecture at university
2011-10-22T01:09:16 < dekar_> you had to pass that to sign up
2011-10-22T01:09:31 < dekar_> but my method globally disabled the check - so everyone could sign up
2011-10-22T01:09:40 <+Steffann> I guess this kind of hacking is pretty common, when you know what to do
2011-10-22T01:09:45 <+Steffann> I don't :P
2011-10-22T01:11:51 < dekar_> the easiest way to beat that test was to send a mail containing XSS using the form which then signed them up using an employees system
2011-10-22T01:12:28 < dekar_> one of my friends wasted like 2h searching for SQL injections - and then gave up XD
2011-10-22T01:12:37 <+Steffann> Hehe
2011-10-22T01:13:18 < dekar_> I don't think I ever used SQL injections, webservers have been blocking them for ages
2011-10-22T01:13:49 <+Steffann> You chances are pretty good when the website is > 5 years old
2011-10-22T01:14:21 < dekar_> I guess
2011-10-22T01:15:01 < dekar_> did I tell you I plan on building a 10G bridge/switch for my bachelors thesis?
2011-10-22T01:15:05 <+Steffann> They should add operators like > < != etc. in every language, so everyone understands it :)
2011-10-22T01:15:26 < dekar_> I want to try whether I can efficiently implement bloom filters on fpga for mac lookups
2011-10-22T01:15:28 <+Steffann> No you didn't
2011-10-22T01:15:48 < dekar_> ever heard of bloom filters?
2011-10-22T01:16:02 <+Steffann> Yes, i heard of it a few seconds ago :P
2011-10-22T01:16:02 < dekar_> they're a pretty cool data structure allowing lookups in O(1)
2011-10-22T01:17:12 < dekar_> but I guess I gotta order that FPGA first :)
2011-10-22T01:17:39 <+Steffann> And find someone to make the pcb etc?
2011-10-22T01:17:53 < dekar_> we just hired some pro EE guy
2011-10-22T01:18:12 < dekar_> he has been designing 10G stuff for quite some time
2011-10-22T01:18:24 < dekar_> ethernet cards and switches
2011-10-22T01:18:51 < dekar_> he'll start in january
2011-10-22T01:21:10 <+Steffann> How useful is that bloom filter stuff when you can't be sure if something is REALLY in the list?
2011-10-22T01:21:56 < dekar_> Steffann, what do you mean?
2011-10-22T01:22:04 < dekar_> false positives?
2011-10-22T01:22:24 <+Steffann> Yeah
2011-10-22T01:22:45 < dekar_> Steffann, dunno, ask those banks who use cryptography
2011-10-22T01:22:55 < dekar_> it also has false positives
2011-10-22T01:23:01 <+Steffann> I wouldn't even know the use of such things
2011-10-22T01:23:03 <+Steffann> -s
2011-10-22T01:23:12 <+Steffann> Lets read wikipedia
2011-10-22T01:25:19 < dekar_> Steffann, do you know the use of trees and hash-maps?
2011-10-22T01:25:29 <+Steffann> Sort of yes
2011-10-22T01:26:03 < dekar_> bloom filters are similar, they allow you to search for stuff really fast - in constant time, no matter how many elements you have
2011-10-22T01:26:37 < Thorn> doing data structures in a fpga sounds scary
2011-10-22T01:26:51 < dekar_> Thorn, why?
2011-10-22T01:26:59 < Thorn> don't you need something equivalent to dynamic memory allocation and pointers?
2011-10-22T01:27:11 < dekar_> Thorn, bloom filters have constant size
2011-10-22T01:27:21 < dekar_> no matter how many elements you place inside
2011-10-22T01:27:40 < dekar_> I am pretty confident they're perfect for FPGA use
2011-10-22T01:28:50 <+Steffann> Yeah, the idea seems to be quite simple..
2011-10-22T01:29:14 <+Steffann> They use fpga to crack hashes too, so…
2011-10-22T01:29:34 <+Steffann> There's a nice project on the www, but no source.. he had to remove it from your government dekar_ :P
2011-10-22T01:30:13 < dekar_> Steffann, I was arguing about building a switch with a co-worker and he was like "you couldn't handle the sheer amount of lookup data - no time and space to cache ethernet frames at 10G"
2011-10-22T01:30:52 < dekar_> But I think I can do it
2011-10-22T01:31:09 < Thorn> ah so it's a fixed size bit array?
2011-10-22T01:31:16 < dekar_> Thorn, yeah
2011-10-22T01:31:37 < Thorn> that does seem perfect for an fpga
2011-10-22T01:31:44 < dekar_> I am pretty confident I can do fast cut-through switching at low latency
2011-10-22T01:31:48 < Thorn> at least storage-wise
2011-10-22T01:32:47 <+Steffann> Just add a few gig of sram :P
2011-10-22T01:32:54 <+Steffann> If that's fast enough
2011-10-22T01:33:08 <+Steffann> It does make it a nice and expensive device :P
2011-10-22T01:33:12 < dekar_> I was planning to use bloom filters for some other project (routing in pseudonymous p2p networks) a while ago - I wanted to combine them with distance vector routing
2011-10-22T01:33:22 < dekar_> Steffann, fu - those things are small :P
2011-10-22T01:33:46 < dekar_> Steffann, besides the cost for one 10G port is around 400€ iirc
2011-10-22T01:33:56 < dekar_> so I can spend some money on sram if I want
2011-10-22T01:34:21 < dekar_> 10G switch ports are expensive as hell, we could probably sell my switch :P
2011-10-22T01:34:35  * dekar_ wants to make an ASIC :D
2011-10-22T01:35:26 < dekar_> Steffann, what did you do for your bachelors thesis?
2011-10-22T01:36:10 <+Steffann> You don't want to know :P
2011-10-22T01:36:16 < dekar_> tell me :P
2011-10-22T01:36:27 <+Steffann> That !@#$%^ stupid wind meter
2011-10-22T01:36:35 < dekar_> that ultra sonic one?
2011-10-22T01:36:37 < BrainDamage> porn site credit card access cracker?
2011-10-22T01:36:41 <+Steffann> Yes dekar_
2011-10-22T01:36:50 < dekar_> did it finally work? :D
2011-10-22T01:36:57 <+Steffann> Yes and no
2011-10-22T01:37:01 < dekar_> :/
2011-10-22T01:37:01 < Tom_itx> BrainDamage is it open sourced?
2011-10-22T01:37:43 < Tom_itx> Steffann was it more a proof of concept
2011-10-22T01:37:44 < Tom_itx> ?
2011-10-22T01:38:02 <+Steffann> The filter stuff should've been adaptive.. I couldn't find good way how to do that
2011-10-22T01:38:10 <+Steffann> Sort of Tom_itx
2011-10-22T01:38:49 <+Steffann> Anyway, i think you are a REAL university student dekar_, i'm not
2011-10-22T01:39:19 < dekar_> Steffann, I have the privilege being backed by a company paying for all the toys I want to play with
2011-10-22T01:39:54 < Tom_itx> do they own your nuts?
2011-10-22T01:40:09 <+Steffann> I was more a 'Hochschule' student dekar_
2011-10-22T01:40:11 < dekar_> my nuts? no waii
2011-10-22T01:40:20 <+Steffann> I'll probably go to a 'real' university next year
2011-10-22T01:40:44 < dekar_> so you'll work on your master then? :D
2011-10-22T01:40:54 <+Steffann> Yeah
2011-10-22T01:41:01 <+Steffann> First have to get some money
2011-10-22T01:41:06 <+Steffann> *Have to get some money first
2011-10-22T01:41:26 < dekar_> hm is money a problem having a bachelors?
2011-10-22T01:42:04 <+Steffann> Ofcourse :P
2011-10-22T01:42:07 < dekar_> I plan on working part time while doing my master
2011-10-22T01:42:12 <+Steffann> I don't
2011-10-22T01:42:57 <+Steffann> The first year of the master seems to be pretty difficult.
2011-10-22T01:43:12 < dekar_> it's up to you how fast you wanna study
2011-10-22T01:43:20 < dekar_> I don't think I'll hurry with that
2011-10-22T01:43:26 <+Steffann> The master takes 3 years
2011-10-22T01:43:28 < BrainDamage> what does it mean being a real univ student?
2011-10-22T01:43:32 <+Steffann> I'd like to finish it in 3
2011-10-22T01:43:35 < BrainDamage> as opposed to a fake one?
2011-10-22T01:43:42 <+Steffann> You are from the US BrainDamage?
2011-10-22T01:43:49 < Tom_itx> what are you gonna do with all that brainage once you get it?
2011-10-22T01:43:51 <+Steffann> If yes, then I can't explain :P
2011-10-22T01:44:02 < BrainDamage> no, I said before I'm from italy
2011-10-22T01:44:08 <+Steffann> Oh, true
2011-10-22T01:44:45 <+Steffann> I confuse you and someone else all the time
2011-10-22T01:44:52 <+Steffann> *with
2011-10-22T01:45:40 < dekar_> upper education used to have 2 different levels, but now they switched to the american bachelor/master-system and made both reach the same degree
2011-10-22T01:46:13 < BrainDamage> same happened here
2011-10-22T01:46:24 < BrainDamage> the univ system has been standardized over eu
2011-10-22T01:46:30 < dekar_> BrainDamage, that's what Steffann meant
2011-10-22T01:46:33 <+Steffann> Yeah
2011-10-22T01:46:51 < dekar_> but I don't really think that stuff matters anyway, it's more about individual skillsets
2011-10-22T01:47:04 <+Steffann> Nah, i'd like to learn a little more
2011-10-22T01:47:10 < BrainDamage> btw, what was your bachelor thesis, in details?
2011-10-22T01:47:21 <+Steffann> It's better for me to do that on a university :)
2011-10-22T01:47:35 < BrainDamage> well, you're  the only person responsible for your own education
2011-10-22T01:47:44 < dekar_> Steffann, I never learned about bloom filters at university
2011-10-22T01:47:46 < BrainDamage> anything else is self deception
2011-10-22T01:47:56 < dekar_> I agree it helps you to get a good base of knowledge
2011-10-22T01:47:57 <+Steffann> I know.. but I can't BrainDamage
2011-10-22T01:48:06 <+Steffann> Discipline is not something im good at
2011-10-22T01:48:13 < dekar_> but you should be able to educate yourself, that's far more important
2011-10-22T01:48:46 < dekar_> like I am constantly trying new stuff, got into µC a year ago, now I'll starting FPGA stuff
2011-10-22T01:48:48 < Laurenceb_> id say ive learnt more out of uni than in it
2011-10-22T01:49:10 < dekar_> and all of that I do at the company
2011-10-22T01:49:21 < dekar_> in cooperation with the uni though
2011-10-22T01:49:29 <+Steffann> me too Laurenceb_
2011-10-22T01:49:39 < dekar_> got 10 credit points for my stm32 project :D
2011-10-22T01:49:42 < Tom_itx> Uni of irc
2011-10-22T01:49:54 <+Steffann> I'd like to improve my math skills, which seems to be easier on a uni. imho
2011-10-22T01:50:21 < Laurenceb_> Tom: lol
2011-10-22T01:50:38 <+Steffann> I'd like to learn so many things, but … for most of it my math/algorithm skills are too bad
2011-10-22T01:50:45 <+Steffann> Like computer vision..
2011-10-22T01:50:54 < dekar_> yeah well, do so - being enrolled you're not limited to what you _have_ to learn, you can always visit random lectures
2011-10-22T01:50:55 <+Steffann> More advanced DSP
2011-10-22T01:50:59 < dekar_> I do that from time to time
2011-10-22T01:51:25 < BrainDamage> I take both of you are doing EE or CS?
2011-10-22T01:51:35 < dekar_> CS here
2011-10-22T01:52:12 <+Steffann> EE indeed BrainDamage
2011-10-22T01:52:40 < BrainDamage> I'm a bit curious, what wind project for bachelor?
2011-10-22T01:52:48 < Tom_itx> anemometer
2011-10-22T01:52:51 <+Steffann> Ultrasonic anemometer BrainDamage :)
2011-10-22T01:52:53 < Tom_itx> but it was unique
2011-10-22T01:52:57 <+Steffann> No it wasn't
2011-10-22T01:53:01 < dekar_> XD
2011-10-22T01:53:04 < Tom_itx> i'd never seen one
2011-10-22T01:53:07 < Tom_itx> so yes it was
2011-10-22T01:53:09 < Tom_itx> :)
2011-10-22T01:53:10 < BrainDamage> can you elaborate?
2011-10-22T01:53:12 <+Steffann> Things like that have meen around since '70
2011-10-22T01:53:22 < BrainDamage> you used doppler shift to find wind speed?
2011-10-22T01:53:30 <+Steffann> It measures wind speed using ultrasonic sound waves
2011-10-22T01:53:38 <+Steffann> No, doppler has nothing to do with it
2011-10-22T01:53:40 < dekar_> doppler sounds so cool :D
2011-10-22T01:53:53 < dekar_> no waii, doppler is waii too cool not to use it
2011-10-22T01:54:09 <+Steffann> Actually i found this website after i almost finished mine
2011-10-22T01:54:10 <+Steffann> http://www.technik.ba-ravensburg.de/~lau/ultraschall-anemometer.html
2011-10-22T01:54:20 <+Steffann> And it's so !@#$%^ similar to mine
2011-10-22T01:54:54 <+Steffann> The first one, the second one on that page is more advanced
2011-10-22T01:55:29 < BrainDamage> oh, you measured the intensity/phase shift between 3 orthogonal recievers?
2011-10-22T01:55:33 < BrainDamage> 2*
2011-10-22T01:55:37 < dekar_> that looks nice, and it's german :D
2011-10-22T01:55:57 <+Steffann> 4 BrainDamage
2011-10-22T01:56:35 <+Steffann> There's an english version too dekar_
2011-10-22T01:56:35 <+Steffann> http://www.technik.ba-ravensburg.de/~lau/ultrasonic-anemometer.html
2011-10-22T01:57:02 < BrainDamage> if I were fixating on ultrasound, I would've also tried something silly like building a pitot tube, and finding windspeed by measuring the pressure in the pitot tube by sending a sound wave and measuring the phase shift :p
2011-10-22T01:57:37 <+Steffann> I also tried to measure the amount rain drops using the same idea, but i failed
2011-10-22T01:57:42 <+Steffann> It should be possible though
2011-10-22T01:58:26 < BrainDamage> bachelor my thesis wasn't as original tough, as in, I didn't come up with it
2011-10-22T01:58:30 <+Steffann> Too much noise in the signal to see the eco's from rain drops
2011-10-22T01:58:35 < BrainDamage> we were like 3 working on it
2011-10-22T01:58:41 <+Steffann> He BrainDamage :)
2011-10-22T01:59:11 <+Steffann> Some Bachelor projects sound more difficult then they really are
2011-10-22T01:59:35 <+Steffann> Mine was, just because i didn't have enough skills :P
2011-10-22T02:00:18 <+Steffann> What did you do BrainDamage ?
2011-10-22T02:00:23 <+Steffann> *make/design
2011-10-22T02:00:25 <+Steffann> or whatever
2011-10-22T02:00:38 < BrainDamage> basically, determine if it was possible to measure mosfet's state and possibly intensity from the infrared rad they emit
2011-10-22T02:01:15 < BrainDamage> turns out it was possible and we found a correlation coefficient of 92% in our measurements
2011-10-22T02:01:40 <+Steffann> :D
2011-10-22T02:01:48 < dekar_> you could build a temperature compensated mosfet :D
2011-10-22T02:02:02 < BrainDamage> the emission wasn't from blackbody
2011-10-22T02:02:33 < BrainDamage> it's an intraband relaxation when high speed carriers reach the pinch-off region
2011-10-22T02:02:56 < BrainDamage> throws some far infrared photons, which are a bitch to detect
2011-10-22T02:02:57 <+Steffann> Help, now you lost me :P
2011-10-22T02:03:10 < BrainDamage> think how a mosfet work
2011-10-22T02:03:11 < dekar_> now that doesn't sound too boring anymore :)
2011-10-22T02:03:31 < dekar_> BrainDamage, up to which frequencies did that work?
2011-10-22T02:03:44 < BrainDamage> this was static detection
2011-10-22T02:04:02 < BrainDamage> the photon's wavelenght was ~1500 nm
2011-10-22T02:04:26 < dekar_> that's what our epic lasers emit at work :D
2011-10-22T02:04:40 <+Steffann> Your eye-burning lasers dekar_ ?
2011-10-22T02:04:51 < BrainDamage> basically, polarize the mosfet into active region
2011-10-22T02:04:52 < dekar_> totally :)
2011-10-22T02:04:57 < BrainDamage> measure the current
2011-10-22T02:05:15 < BrainDamage> and then a single photon detector counts the amount of photons per second emitted
2011-10-22T02:06:02 <+Steffann> Yay, you used advanced equipment?
2011-10-22T02:06:07 < dekar_> single photon detector sounds like some fancy equipment
2011-10-22T02:06:22 < BrainDamage> it's sorta my univ's speciality
2011-10-22T02:06:28 < dekar_> gotta order one once our credit card starts working again :)
2011-10-22T02:06:36 <+Steffann> hehe
2011-10-22T02:06:39 < BrainDamage> Single Photon Avalanche Diode
2011-10-22T02:06:56 < BrainDamage> they try to shove them everywhere, even when it's unnecessary :p
2011-10-22T02:08:14 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/WZ5Si
2011-10-22T02:08:18 <+Steffann> You don't use g+ as blog platform anymore dekar_ ?
2011-10-22T02:08:25 < dekar_> Steffann, nope
2011-10-22T02:08:30 < dekar_> G+ sucks for blogging
2011-10-22T02:08:41 <+Steffann> Nah, there goes all the fancyness BrainDamage
2011-10-22T02:08:41 < BrainDamage> ignore the laser safety label since that table was used for other crap too
2011-10-22T02:08:54 <+Steffann> I expected a white lab :P
2011-10-22T02:09:01 < BrainDamage> hey, the aluminium foil really ties the apparatus together
2011-10-22T02:09:34 < dekar_> laser safety... I'd rather have a sign say "FANCY LASER!"
2011-10-22T02:09:36 < BrainDamage> also, the shit was so sensitive that we had to shut down the lights on the whole floor
2011-10-22T02:09:47 < BrainDamage> everyone hated us
2011-10-22T02:09:48 <+Steffann> :)
2011-10-22T02:10:14 < dekar_> BrainDamage, so you're EE as well?
2011-10-22T02:10:28 < BrainDamage> yes, trying to finish my master
2011-10-22T02:10:37 < BrainDamage> exams in feb, and hopefully then thesis
2011-10-22T02:10:38 <+Steffann> Trying :)
2011-10-22T02:11:28 < BrainDamage> yeah, I'm not too confident about it :s
2011-10-22T02:11:47 <+Steffann> After i finished my master i want a hobby-bobby job like dekar_ :P
2011-10-22T02:12:09 < dekar_> it's hard work
2011-10-22T02:12:15 < dekar_> :P
2011-10-22T02:12:18 < BrainDamage> btw, since we're into eye burning laser topic
2011-10-22T02:12:41 < dekar_> we use apprentices for that
2011-10-22T02:12:58 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/w6EGh
2011-10-22T02:13:00 < dekar_> "have a look whether that fancy IR laser is on!"
2011-10-22T02:13:00 < BrainDamage> this is mine
2011-10-22T02:13:20 < BrainDamage> 2W @ 405nm
2011-10-22T02:13:23 < dekar_> neat :)
2011-10-22T02:13:35 < BrainDamage> it looks blue on the pic because the camera's ccd is saturated
2011-10-22T02:13:39 < BrainDamage> it's purple-ish
2011-10-22T02:13:41 <+Steffann> I wan't a 50W C02 laser :P
2011-10-22T02:13:46 <+Steffann> *want
2011-10-22T02:13:50 < dekar_> networking equipment mostly uses IR
2011-10-22T02:13:53 < BrainDamage> I want a mode-locking laser
2011-10-22T02:13:58 < Tom_itx> with an x y table under it?
2011-10-22T02:14:02 <+Steffann> I want one to laser cut stuff
2011-10-22T02:14:03 < BrainDamage> I found one, but couldn't import it :s
2011-10-22T02:14:06 < dekar_> I want a pulse laser!
2011-10-22T02:14:13 < BrainDamage> mode-locking is pulsed
2011-10-22T02:14:23 < BrainDamage> this one was 150kW pulse
2011-10-22T02:14:27 <+Steffann> :)
2011-10-22T02:14:36 < dekar_> I want one of those then
2011-10-22T02:14:39 < dekar_> :D
2011-10-22T02:14:43 <+Steffann> Not really something i'd like to toy with
2011-10-22T02:15:17 < dekar_> I'll make sure to have some apprentice look whether the laser is working
2011-10-22T02:15:28 <+Steffann> :)
2011-10-22T02:15:34 < BrainDamage> you don't have to make them look
2011-10-22T02:15:41 <+Steffann> You have two eyes dekar_ :)
2011-10-22T02:15:47 < BrainDamage> just ask if they have some scorched marks
2011-10-22T02:15:54 < dekar_> just BURN THROUGH THEM! :D
2011-10-22T02:16:18 < dekar_> our strongest ones are only 1W IR -.-
2011-10-22T02:16:39 <+Steffann> In glass fibre :)
2011-10-22T02:16:59 < dekar_> that one is pretty cool: http://www.flexoptix.net/en/info/transceiver-flex-news/details/datum/2010/02/17/tunable-dwdm-xfp-for-10-gigabit-networks.html
2011-10-22T02:17:12 < dekar_> it has an adjustable wavelength
2011-10-22T02:17:44 <+Steffann> He, dekar_ who's that last guy at the team page? :P
2011-10-22T02:17:55 <+Steffann> R&D/IT Security
2011-10-22T02:18:03 < dekar_> guess who? :D
2011-10-22T02:18:39 <+Steffann> At least you can't find me on the web
2011-10-22T02:18:45 <+Steffann> Oh, probably you can
2011-10-22T02:18:47 < dekar_> so you're camera shy?
2011-10-22T02:19:05 <+Steffann> I don't like to see my face on the www.. on random websites
2011-10-22T02:19:29 <+Steffann> I'm pretty sure i'm somewhere on facebook though :(
2011-10-22T02:19:34 < dekar_> I just realized my mail address is missing
2011-10-22T02:19:38 < dekar_> O.o
2011-10-22T02:19:46 < dekar_> I forgot the typo3 password -.-
2011-10-22T02:19:50 <+Steffann> He
2011-10-22T02:20:26 < BrainDamage> I'm trying to build a tunable laser, but at this rate it'll take me years :/
2011-10-22T02:20:36 < BrainDamage> ( home project, not univ )
2011-10-22T02:20:49 < BrainDamage> we're 2 working on it
2011-10-22T02:21:01 <+Steffann> build me a CO2 laser cutter BrainDamage
2011-10-22T02:21:24 < BrainDamage> I know 0 of glass working
2011-10-22T02:21:32 < BrainDamage> I don't need it for this
2011-10-22T02:21:44 < BrainDamage> since nearly everything is transparent @ 1MeV
2011-10-22T02:21:50 <+Steffann> It should be able to cut steel :P
2011-10-22T02:22:14 <+Steffann> Stainless steel
2011-10-22T02:23:31 <+Steffann> A CNC is ok too, but i'm not sure if using that with acrylic glass is a good idea
2011-10-22T02:25:57 < BrainDamage> you mean milling the glass?
2011-10-22T02:26:15 < BrainDamage> it works ok using cutting oil
2011-10-22T02:26:35 < BrainDamage> you need an high speed spindle
2011-10-22T02:26:45 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/sLEPI
2011-10-22T02:27:07 <+Steffann> A laser is easier :)
2011-10-22T02:27:37 < BrainDamage> I'll actually try to mount the laser on it
2011-10-22T02:28:10 < BrainDamage> not the FEL ofc, the 2W one
2011-10-22T02:28:32 < BrainDamage> altough the heatsink is rather large, so we'll probably resort to fiber couple it
2011-10-22T02:28:33 < dekar_> fixed my mail :D
2011-10-22T02:29:11 <+Steffann> Now we can spam you
2011-10-22T02:29:50 < dekar_> we had to shut down our spam filter since customers send from their dynamic ip DSL line -.-"
2011-10-22T02:30:08 < BrainDamage> use graylisting
2011-10-22T02:30:21 < dekar_> BrainDamage, I do on my private server
2011-10-22T02:30:41 < dekar_> suggested it to my boss and he was interested - idk if he plans on using it though
2011-10-22T02:31:11 < dekar_> Steffann, I can supply you with cheap fiber for your epic laser :D
2011-10-22T02:31:53 < dekar_> get singlemode fiber, it uses ubercool quantum effects I can't explain :D
2011-10-22T02:32:00 <+Steffann> I'd prefer a fibre connection from me to ams-ix
2011-10-22T02:32:25 < dekar_> oh now THAT is interesting
2011-10-22T02:32:42 < dekar_> AMS is amsterdam internet exchange?
2011-10-22T02:32:44 < BrainDamage> both step-index and graded index fibers don't need quantum mechanics to be explained :s
2011-10-22T02:32:49 < dekar_> they're our customer :P
2011-10-22T02:32:53 <+Steffann> Yes dekar_
2011-10-22T02:33:05 < dekar_> I never knew what AMS was
2011-10-22T02:35:46 < dekar_> I guess it was some method to amplify light going through a singlemode fibre that uses quantum mechanics then
2011-10-22T02:36:13 < BrainDamage> lasers need QM to be explained
2011-10-22T02:36:14 < dekar_> our new EE guy explained it to me, I didn't understand most of it though
2011-10-22T02:36:24 < BrainDamage> I guess it was a fiber-based laser
2011-10-22T02:36:36 < BrainDamage> ( or amplifier, which is still a laser )
2011-10-22T02:36:49 < BrainDamage> was it herbium doped by chance?
2011-10-22T02:36:51 < dekar_> BrainDamage, the point was that you can have different wavelengths going through the same fibre and boost them all at once
2011-10-22T02:37:47 < dekar_> which is much cheaper then demultiplexing them, receiving the signals etc
2011-10-22T02:38:49 < BrainDamage> I guess it either has a large stable state width, or multiple states that align with the interested wavelenght
2011-10-22T02:39:21 < BrainDamage> I didn't know tough that frequency divison muxing was used with fibers tough
2011-10-22T02:39:25 < BrainDamage> I only knew time
2011-10-22T02:39:43 < dekar_> http://www.flexoptix.net/en/info/transceiver-flex-news/details/datum/2010/02/17/tunable-dwdm-xfp-for-10-gigabit-networks.html
2011-10-22T02:39:48 < dekar_> that's what you use those for
2011-10-22T02:40:01 < dekar_> you tune them to the frequency you want
2011-10-22T02:40:54 < dekar_> it's rather expensive though
2011-10-22T02:42:11 < dekar_> time division multiplexing is rather uncommon afaik, it's only used to share like one 10G line between 10 customers. But it's barely done that way
2011-10-22T02:43:42 < karl_> where do you work dekar? I've just caught up on the scrollback
2011-10-22T02:43:51 < dekar_> flexoptix.net
2011-10-22T02:44:07 < dekar_> we sell networking equipment
2011-10-22T02:44:28 < karl_> ahh, you make SFPs
2011-10-22T02:44:38 < dekar_> ya :D
2011-10-22T02:45:08 < dekar_> I have a SFP necklace
2011-10-22T02:45:08 < Thorn> isn't that a market dominated by cisco and other large companies?
2011-10-22T02:45:11 < karl_> I used to work behind the sfp :)
2011-10-22T02:45:16 < karl_> no, cisco doesn't bother making sfps and gbics
2011-10-22T02:45:30 < karl_> too much phsyics and optics
2011-10-22T02:45:38 <+Steffann> Cisco doesn't like that?
2011-10-22T02:45:43 < karl_> they prefer to work on what the sfp plugs into
2011-10-22T02:45:54 < dekar_> Thorn, we make compatible transceivers - ours work for all vendors
2011-10-22T02:45:58 <+Steffann> Anyway, it's getting early
2011-10-22T02:46:03 <+Steffann> Time to find my bed
2011-10-22T02:46:22 < karl_> most of the cisco networking equipment just has an sfp socket, and you choose the sfp and fibers yoruself, based on your installation details
2011-10-22T02:46:28 < karl_> but the cisco hardware doesn't care
2011-10-22T02:46:47 < dekar_> karl_, they actually do - most of them even make sure one SFP serial number is only used once
2011-10-22T02:47:18 < dekar_> so you can't just clone them
2011-10-22T02:47:43 < dekar_> some vendors even use challenge response
2011-10-22T02:49:14 < karl_> hmm, I'll take your word for it, the cards I worked on were using GBICs, which I was lead to believe were dumb electrical interfaces
2011-10-22T02:49:21 < karl_> some of the newer stuff was using sfps
2011-10-22T02:50:19 < dekar_> most of the newer SFP+ contain microcontrollers
2011-10-22T02:50:32 < dekar_> SFP+ are for 10G
2011-10-22T02:50:51 < karl_> yeah, I wrote the microcode for the PXF style boards,
2011-10-22T02:51:17 < karl_> up to OC48
2011-10-22T02:51:22 < karl_> 10G were other guys
2011-10-22T02:51:43 < dekar_> I was reversing the firmware of an SFP+ to get the password lately
2011-10-22T02:51:50 < dekar_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/transceiver_firmware.png
2011-10-22T02:51:50 < karl_> it was interesting hearing your earlier story abotu the amount of time available for lookups at 10g line rates  :)
2011-10-22T02:52:14 < dekar_> haha, I haven't even started that project :D
2011-10-22T02:53:24 < dekar_> I'm about to start working with FPGAs, if I like them I'll try the switch/bridge thing. But atm it's rather vague
2011-10-22T02:54:29 < karl_> he's right though, the amount of time  you have for switching min packet size at line rate is incredibly short
2011-10-22T02:54:47 < karl_> we had 64 clock cycles to do gigE on the boards I was working on.
2011-10-22T02:55:08 < karl_> you can do more with asics and newer processors of course
2011-10-22T02:55:17 < karl_> but that time limit is _hard_
2011-10-22T02:55:45 < dekar_> yeah I know, I'll surely spend a second thought on that before I start working on it
2011-10-22T02:56:37 < dekar_> it will be another year before I do my bachelor thesis anyway
2011-10-22T02:57:01 < dekar_> karl_, the first thing I will build is a 10G BERT (Bit Error Rate Test)
2011-10-22T02:57:16 < dekar_> that's my project for this semester
2011-10-22T02:58:06 < dekar_> and I'll try to make it cheap using a cheapish FPGA to do XAUI combined with an external PHY
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2011-10-22T03:02:21 < dekar_> BrainDamage, oh what I wanted to mention, the newer CFP 100G transceivers do internal wavelength multiplexing, they're actually four times 25G
2011-10-22T03:02:39 < dekar_> so that's getting pretty common
2011-10-22T03:03:06 < karl_> shit load easier than 1x100G :)
2011-10-22T03:03:13 < dekar_> yeah :)
2011-10-22T03:03:37 < BrainDamage> ah, so it's really FDM'ed
2011-10-22T03:03:45 < dekar_> I am pretty frightened of 10G already since I don't know much about electronics to begin with
2011-10-22T03:04:20 < dekar_> but since we just hired some skilled EE guy who will help me through it shouldn't be a big problem :D
2011-10-22T03:05:49 < dekar_> I hope all I have to do is buy some quality SMA cables and hook some boards together
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2011-10-22T03:06:57 < dekar_> karl_, so what kind of microcode was it that you wrote? it's probably some proprietary ASIC I'd guess?
2011-10-22T03:10:07 < karl_> yeah
2011-10-22T03:10:14 < karl_> custom network processor
2011-10-22T03:10:36 < karl_> when then cisco took what we learnt and told the processor companies what not to again :)
2011-10-22T03:10:41 < karl_> and what would be better
2011-10-22T03:11:01 < karl_> fun times!
2011-10-22T03:14:52 < dekar_> you sound like someone who might be able to give me a tip or two for my projects, I hope you'll stay here at our channel :)
2011-10-22T03:15:23  * dekar_ dreams of making his own ASICs...
2011-10-22T03:15:59 < karl_> no, I was just a software monkey then,
2011-10-22T03:16:31 < karl_> I then went on a detour through generic telco ops software, and am now back on embedded
2011-10-22T03:16:38 < karl_> but low speed, low complexity
2011-10-22T03:16:55 < dekar_> I see, that's what I was doing for the last year
2011-10-22T03:16:59 < karl_> we run at the fantastic 19200 baud rate :)
2011-10-22T03:17:16 < dekar_> I have build some USB device to configure transceivers via I2C
2011-10-22T03:17:44 < dekar_> it's supposed to be in production till the end of this year
2011-10-22T03:20:16 < Thorn> look at that http://ics.nxp.com/products/mcus/cortex-m4/
2011-10-22T03:20:17 < dekar_> that's why I am here - I used the stm32 which is probably pretty overkill for what I did :P
2011-10-22T03:20:50 < dekar_> Thorn, what's so special about it?
2011-10-22T03:20:53 < Thorn> ARM Cortex-M4 digital signal controller with Cortex-M0 co-processor, external memory controller, 264KB SRAM
2011-10-22T03:22:08 < dekar_> my pandaboard has two ARM Cortex M3 co-processors IIRC :)
2011-10-22T03:22:34 < karl_> these combo cores are cool
2011-10-22T03:22:39 < Thorn> OTOH everything aboe lpc1769 is still marked "in development"
2011-10-22T03:22:40 < karl_> exciting new world of toys
2011-10-22T03:23:09 < Thorn> hopefully the erratas aren't going to be too thick
2011-10-22T03:23:31 < karl_> hehe
2011-10-22T03:23:46 < karl_> I've heard there's some pretty outrageous errata piles on some of the m3 parts around
2011-10-22T03:24:05 < Thorn> stm32 seems to lead the pack in that sense
2011-10-22T03:24:07 < karl_> m3/m4 work is just for personal fun for me,
2011-10-22T03:24:35 < dekar_> I'll probably stick with STM32s for a while - they're my first µC and I just feel like I have properly set up their lib and my toolchain
2011-10-22T03:24:37 < Thorn> actually it seems than NXP are the only ones who aren't pushing their cortex products too fast
2011-10-22T03:24:42 < karl_> I'm trying to remember why I went with STM vs TI or NXP parts in the end,
2011-10-22T03:24:52 < karl_> I think it was the 32L discovery board, as I'm a big fan of uberlow pwoer
2011-10-22T03:25:11 < karl_> dekar_: stm32 was your first µC? nice!
2011-10-22T03:25:15 < Thorn> stm32 is very popular in general. look at the number of chinese boards on ebay
2011-10-22T03:25:16 < dekar_> yeah
2011-10-22T03:25:31 < karl_> what board ar eyou playing with? one of the discovery kits?
2011-10-22T03:25:55 < dekar_> karl_, I recently had some gecko µC from norway in my mail - those are supposed to be uber low energy
2011-10-22T03:25:55 < karl_> Thorn: at least on places like sparkfun forums, it seemed like TI and NXP were more popular,
2011-10-22T03:26:22 < karl_> oh yeah, the EFM guys
2011-10-22T03:26:52 < dekar_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111855111374523178287/posts/ASiNVZt6FRH
2011-10-22T03:27:08 < Thorn> ST has done some very aggressive marketing. if only they put some of those resources into fixing their chips...
2011-10-22T03:27:14 < dekar_> haven't played with it yet - never even ordered it XD
2011-10-22T03:27:31 < dekar_> the board is fun though, has capacitive sensors :)
2011-10-22T03:27:51 < karl_> so does this: http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/250990.jsp
2011-10-22T03:28:12 < karl_> $15 or so, touch slider, lcd, SWD debugger, m3 core, ultra low power :)
2011-10-22T03:28:30 < dekar_> that looks really similar to that gecko board O.o
2011-10-22T03:28:35 < karl_> I think it was that promo kit alone that got me to start look at moving away from 8bit
2011-10-22T03:28:37 < Thorn> speaking of low power, TI announced a 0.9V msp430
2011-10-22T03:29:06 < karl_> did you get this one: http://www.energymicro.com/tools/efm32-gecko-starter-kit
2011-10-22T03:29:14 < Thorn> you won't need 3 potatoes to power it any more
2011-10-22T03:29:32 < karl_> yeh, I met an MSP 430 analog front end guy here by chance a few weeks ago,
2011-10-22T03:29:39 < karl_> he was pretty proud of their low power stuff
2011-10-22T03:29:56 < karl_> 0.9V is awesome
2011-10-22T03:30:03 < dekar_> karl_, yeah the gecko starter
2011-10-22T03:30:52 < Thorn> http://video.designworldonline.com/channel/66d4bb3eccda4a27b7e2223d88e0d86e/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS
2011-10-22T03:32:41 < karl_> yeah, that gecko board looks pretty much the same sort of demo kit
2011-10-22T03:32:47 < karl_> except it costs a lot more :)
2011-10-22T03:33:46 < dekar_> I randomly had it in my mail without ever hearing of EFM before
2011-10-22T03:35:10 < karl_> interesting
2011-10-22T03:35:15 < karl_> no-one sends me stuff like that
2011-10-22T03:35:35 < dekar_> came with free chewing gum and a aluminum gecko keyring
2011-10-22T03:35:43 < karl_> man, I wish i twas possible to get m3/m0 parts in a manually solderable package
2011-10-22T03:35:49 < karl_> that was samller than qfp48
2011-10-22T03:36:01 < karl_> the smallest I've been able to find from any manufacturer is qfp48
2011-10-22T03:36:07 < karl_> smaller parts are QFN or BGA only
2011-10-22T03:36:16 < dekar_> do you have the need to solder your PCB manually?
2011-10-22T03:36:52 < karl_> well, given that these are for toys, not work, yes :)
2011-10-22T03:37:02 < dekar_> our company just has that done somewhere, using pick and place etc
2011-10-22T03:37:09 < dekar_> oh I see
2011-10-22T03:37:18 < karl_> work is a bigger MIPS SoC, and very dumb AVR slaves
2011-10-22T03:37:53 < karl_> work has a pcb mill for making prototypes, which is nice, but it still needs to be soldered by someone
2011-10-22T03:38:20 < dekar_> I haven't worked with MIPS much, had to write some four in a row game in MIPS assembly for university once
2011-10-22T03:38:42 < karl_> it's just a target, doesn't matter
2011-10-22T03:38:49 < karl_> the MIPS board just runs linux
2011-10-22T03:38:55 < dekar_> ah okay
2011-10-22T03:39:02 < karl_> I couldn't care less what cpu it was really.
2011-10-22T03:39:25 < dekar_> I kinda like I know a bit about ARM internals
2011-10-22T03:39:45 < dekar_> I needed that to reverse the SFP firmware
2011-10-22T03:39:49 < karl_> well, it's important if you're runnign on bare metal :)
2011-10-22T03:39:59 < karl_> it's kinda irrelevant if you're writing linux user space apps
2011-10-22T03:40:17 < dekar_> had to mark all the entry points in from the interrupt vector manually to disassemble it
2011-10-22T03:40:24 < karl_> we did evaluate some m3 based boards, to run our app as bare metal
2011-10-22T03:40:25 < dekar_> yeah I know
2011-10-22T03:40:28 < karl_> but it's just not worth it.
2011-10-22T03:40:50 < karl_> we can oem working boards, running linux, with wifi and ethernet, delivered for $25
2011-10-22T03:41:04 < karl_> the home wifi/router market is enormously huge
2011-10-22T03:41:06 < dekar_> nice, where do you get those?
2011-10-22T03:41:42 < karl_> some oem deal the hardware guys found with someone in china
2011-10-22T03:41:49 < dekar_> hm okay
2011-10-22T03:41:56 < karl_> hang on, I'll find a link
2011-10-22T03:42:10 < dekar_> our company lately started working with vending machines and they evaluated the pandaboard which is like 170€ I think
2011-10-22T03:42:48 < dekar_> http://gearomat.com/
2011-10-22T03:43:08 < Thorn> beagleboard is cheaper
2011-10-22T03:43:45 < dekar_> Thorn, the guys working on it make weird decisions, they dropped the pandaboard and that's how I got mine for free :)
2011-10-22T03:43:53 < dekar_> they switched over to some atom
2011-10-22T03:44:14 < dekar_> I had to install them the linux drivers for that fucked up GPU it uses
2011-10-22T03:44:54 < Thorn> next time you'll get some surplus stratix IV
2011-10-22T03:44:59 < dekar_> also they bought some small uber expensive displays and fried one by mixing up VCC with GND
2011-10-22T03:45:12 < dekar_> I totally need one :D
2011-10-22T03:45:54 < dekar_> the vending machine is cool though
2011-10-22T03:46:05 < dekar_> I can make it give me stuff using our android app :D
2011-10-22T03:46:36 < BrainDamage> my univ's vending machine used to be supercool
2011-10-22T03:46:43 < BrainDamage> I could hack free credit
2011-10-22T03:47:13 < karl_> that's not supercool, that's broken :)
2011-10-22T03:47:16 < dekar_> I don't even need credits to get free SFP/XFP/optical fibres/peanuts and hats from it :D
2011-10-22T03:47:56 < karl_> sorry, can't find the page I was looking for
2011-10-22T03:47:57 < dekar_> http://gearomat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IMG_21191.jpg
2011-10-22T03:48:08 < karl_> but one of the big router makers, I thought tp-link,
2011-10-22T03:48:31 < karl_> are making a device about as big as a deck of cards, usb-micro for power, usb host to take a USB 3G dongle,
2011-10-22T03:48:40 < karl_> built in wifi, running openwrt
2011-10-22T03:48:56 < karl_> can you can buy them in lots of 5 or so for about $17 or something
2011-10-22T03:49:05 < karl_> not many free gpios, mind you
2011-10-22T03:49:16 < karl_> but depending on the project, it's just fine
2011-10-22T03:49:45 < dekar_> you can just use usb to get more GPIO anyway
2011-10-22T03:49:50 < karl_> exactly
2011-10-22T03:50:03 < karl_> working usb host, wifi, running full linux, for < $20
2011-10-22T03:50:21 < dekar_> sounds like an awesome platform, does it have any means to output something to a display?
2011-10-22T03:50:41 < dekar_> I guess you could use an usb graphic card...
2011-10-22T03:51:07 < karl_> not normally, these are normally home router platforms
2011-10-22T03:51:11 < karl_> something like this: http://www.omnima.co.uk/store/catalog/MiniEMBWiFi-p-16180.html
2011-10-22T03:51:13 < dekar_> we just want a simple menu for the vending machine
2011-10-22T03:51:19 < karl_> but actually packaged up as a home router for mass production
2011-10-22T03:51:23 < karl_> so cheaper still
2011-10-22T03:53:23 < dekar_> I am not really involved in that project anyway, but I kinda feel pain every time they tell me how much money they waste on their hardware
2011-10-22T03:53:33 < dekar_> the atom board they use is like 250€ alone
2011-10-22T03:54:24 < Thorn> why so few consumer routers use arm cpus btw? seems llike most of them are mips
2011-10-22T03:54:34 < karl_> no wifi
2011-10-22T03:54:41 < karl_> atheros and broadcom do them as SoC
2011-10-22T03:54:43 < karl_> ralink too
2011-10-22T03:54:56 < karl_> also, they don't need any new fancy processing power :)
2011-10-22T03:55:01 < karl_> or low power
2011-10-22T03:55:14 < dekar_> my router is mips as well, had debian on it once :)
2011-10-22T04:05:02 < dekar_> that one looks nice and cheap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
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2011-10-22T04:14:49 < karl_> if it ever ships :)
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2011-10-22T05:03:11 < karl_> this is one of the ones I was lookign for the link for: http://www.volumerates.com/product/genuine-tp-link-tl-wr703n-150m-11n-mini-wifi-wireless-router-for-instant-wifi-connection-99273
2011-10-22T05:22:21 < karl_> good lord, this stm32vl board really has a disgusting mass storage thing doesn't it
2011-10-22T05:22:47 < karl_> it triggers another usb disk to unmount and remount when it's strugglinh yo plug it in
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2011-10-22T16:27:57 <+Steffanx> I still wonder why the FMSC doesn't support SDRAM, even the 'simple' xmega from Atmel supports sdram
2011-10-22T16:28:06 < Laurenceb_> if i have a function that expects a pointer to a uint8_t
2011-10-22T16:28:24 < Laurenceb_> and i pass it a pointer to uint16_t, what happens?
2011-10-22T16:28:36 < Laurenceb_> does it just stick the data in one of the bytes?
2011-10-22T16:29:15 < Thorn> lpc17xx EMC supports sdram but not burst sync ram
2011-10-22T16:29:31 <+Steffanx> That's not STM32 :P
2011-10-22T16:30:54 < Thorn> so there're boards with an lpc1788 and 256Mb of sdram
2011-10-22T16:31:10 < karl_> Laurenceb_: I think it depends on the way the compiler decides to place bytes in memory
2011-10-22T16:31:21 < Tom_itx> and the edian?
2011-10-22T16:31:31 < Tom_itx> endian
2011-10-22T16:31:42 < Laurenceb_> so what endianess is stm32?
2011-10-22T16:32:32 < Thorn> little endian I believe
2011-10-22T16:32:47 < Laurenceb_> ok so it should work
2011-10-22T16:33:01 < Laurenceb_> as itll have a pointer to the least significant byte
2011-10-22T16:34:23 < karl_> I would definitely try it before expecting anything :)
2011-10-22T16:34:31 < Thorn> the arm arm says that data endiannes is selectable by a bit in AIRCR register
2011-10-22T16:34:32 < karl_> I know I ran into unexpected behaviour on avrs doing the same thing
2011-10-22T16:34:57 < karl_> but this is not the arm endian ness, it's how the compiler decided to place things isn't it?
2011-10-22T16:35:11 < Tom_itx> or both
2011-10-22T16:35:22 < karl_> at least, the problem I had on avr was, "it's 8 bit, will the "high" byte be at a lower address or a higher address?"
2011-10-22T16:35:44 < Tom_itx> avr is harvard isn't it?
2011-10-22T16:36:44 < Thorn> "The bytes are coded in memory in Little Endian format. The lowest numbered byte in a word
2011-10-22T16:36:44 < Thorn> is considered the word’s least significant byte and the highest numbered byte the most
2011-10-22T16:36:44 < Thorn> significant." (rm0008 page 49)
2011-10-22T16:40:51 < Thorn> looks like st didn't implement that feature (se pm0056 page 135, the endianess bit seems to always be 0)
2011-10-22T16:46:16 < grummund> but you can't, strictlt, convert pointer of one type to another
2011-10-22T16:46:28 < grummund> *strictly
2011-10-22T16:48:49 < Thorn> also see e.g. this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2958633/gcc-strict-aliasing-and-horror-stories
2011-10-22T16:50:26 < Thorn> especially the Linus quote
2011-10-22T17:07:32 < grummund> that's useful to know...
2011-10-22T17:08:57 < grummund> another good reason not to be casting pointer types
2011-10-22T17:09:28 < grummund> also another good reason not to switch compiler optimisation between testing and release
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2011-10-22T20:35:06 <+Steffanx> Hmm, PSRAM looks nice too, but a little hard to get
2011-10-22T20:35:22 <+Steffanx> In a non-BGA package
2011-10-22T20:38:43 < karl_> is that the phase state stuff?
2011-10-22T20:38:48 < karl_> for nvram?
2011-10-22T20:38:58 <+Steffanx> Pseudostatic RAM ..
2011-10-22T20:40:04 <+Steffanx> It seems to be Dynamic RAM with a built-in refresh and control circuit
2011-10-22T20:41:00 <+Steffanx> Digikey seems the be the only one with some psram.. in bga package
2011-10-22T20:45:05 <+Steffanx> So the only way to get more ram with a stm32Fx seems to be with expensive sram :(
2011-10-22T21:02:01 < Thorn> looks like ST made its own memory controller (and didn't bother with dynamic ram) while NXP went with an ARM-designed one
2011-10-22T21:02:40 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that kinda sucks
2011-10-22T21:03:01 <+Steffanx> As 16MBit SRAM is more expensive than anything else i plan to use
2011-10-22T21:03:10 < Thorn> but NXP has availability problems, the only place I found lpc1788 is mouser
2011-10-22T21:03:18 <+Steffanx> So no stm32 for me i guess
2011-10-22T21:04:50 < Thorn> I like this one http://starterkit.ru/html/index.php?name=shop&op=view&id=66 <- 32 Mbytes of sdram, ~$82
2011-10-22T21:05:33 < Thorn> except the huge LQFP208
2011-10-22T21:07:35 < grummund> how much ram do you need, Steffanx ?
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 23 2011
2011-10-23T00:41:37 < TeknoJuce> I wish the board came with some form of network access on it rj45 jack or something
2011-10-23T00:50:39 < TeknoJuce> the st site is terrible for navigating
2011-10-23T00:57:47 <+Steffanx> Nah, it gets easier when you know what's where
2011-10-23T01:20:56 < Thorn> why ICs that I have never match PCBs that I have?
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2011-10-23T06:10:56 < CheBuzz> I am trying to use OpenOCD to program a stm32f205 chip, and it seems to succeed, but it spits out this error message: "Error: stm32f2xxx.cpu -- clearing lockup after double fault"  Anybody know why that would be?
2011-10-23T07:42:06 < dekar_> did anyone else get a mail from my.st.com stating I have to request a new password or my account gets deleted?
2011-10-23T07:42:15 < dekar_> sounds like they got hacked -.-
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2011-10-23T11:33:04 <@jpa-> CheBuzz: i guess it means that your hardfault handler caused another fault, which causes the CPU to lock up to avoid undefined behaviour
2011-10-23T11:33:18 <@jpa-> and the programmer then clears it so that it can access the chip
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--- Day changed Mon Oct 24 2011
2011-10-24T00:11:48 < Laurenceb_> anyone tried i2c method2 from the stm32 reference manual?
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2011-10-24T02:53:30 <+izua> hello.
2011-10-24T02:55:03 < Tom_itx> hey
2011-10-24T03:02:09 < zhanx> sup
2011-10-24T03:02:32 < zhanx> i am making venison with squash and potatoes
2011-10-24T03:03:31 <+izua> what game?
2011-10-24T03:03:32 < Tom_itx> i am making new probes
2011-10-24T03:03:59 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o izua] by ChanServ
2011-10-24T03:06:29 < zhanx> deer
2011-10-24T03:08:07 -!- izua changed the topic of ##stm32 to: code protection bug: http://tinyurl.com/4469sbn | Prepare for the two minutes of hate. this channel is publicly logged, ask zlog for more. (also for free z80s)
2011-10-24T03:08:17 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o izua] by izua
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2011-10-24T14:42:56 < Laurenceb> do interrupts latch at the NVIC on stm32?
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2011-10-24T15:48:42 <@jpa-> what do you mean by "latch"?
2011-10-24T15:49:13 <+izua> 'do you have to reset the bit manually'
2011-10-24T15:51:14 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> if i have an i2c error it usually results in two interrupt requests
2011-10-24T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> * Sambas has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238])
2011-10-24T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> the error is higher priotity so runs first
2011-10-24T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> and it clears the event interrupt as well
2011-10-24T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> but will the event isr still run?
2011-10-24T15:52:47 <@jpa-> if you clear the flag, it won't run
2011-10-24T15:53:05 <@jpa-> (unless i'm wrong :D
2011-10-24T15:55:40 <@jpa-> ah, bah, can't answer; turns out i haven't met that situation after all
2011-10-24T15:55:47 <+izua> lol jpa
2011-10-24T15:55:57 <+izua> you still have ops since
2011-10-24T15:56:10 <@jpa-> sure i do
2011-10-24T15:56:12 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 15 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 12 normal]
2011-10-24T15:56:19 <@jpa-> i can't let go
2011-10-24T15:56:21 <+izua> i had three power surges and probably 20 internet fails >.<
2011-10-24T15:56:48 <@jpa-> i have also had one ircnet route fail, but freenode is more stable :P
2011-10-24T15:59:09 < BrainDamage> or just use a bouncer
2011-10-24T15:59:50 <@jpa-> this is on a server anyway
2011-10-24T16:00:10 <@jpa-> so 1 month without dropping from IRC is no wonders
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2011-10-24T23:12:41 < Laurenceb_> to config multiple interrupts, you call NVIC_Init for each interrupt right?
--- Day changed Tue Oct 25 2011
2011-10-25T00:28:24 < Laurenceb_> is there a periferal clk to the EXTI?
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2011-10-25T06:39:47 < TeknoJuce> whats the most n00b friendly tool chain for stm32f4 development toolchains:
2011-10-25T06:39:47 < TeknoJuce> – IAR Embedded Workbench® for ARM (EWARM) by IAR Systems
2011-10-25T06:39:47 < TeknoJuce> – Microcontroller Development Kit for ARM (MDK-ARM) by Keil™
2011-10-25T06:39:47 < TeknoJuce> – TrueSTUDIO® by Atollic
2011-10-25T06:39:47 < TeknoJuce> – TASKING VX-toolset for ARM Cortex by Altium
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2011-10-25T13:01:38 < karl_> TeknoJuce: it comes up from time to time, but I think the common answer is one of a) how much money do you have, and b) do you have any existing tools from any of them?
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2011-10-25T22:02:24 < Laurenceb_> why am i getting packed attribute ignored?
2011-10-25T22:05:20 < Laurenceb_> nvm
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2011-10-26T09:19:48 < CheBuzz> Any where I can get a simple program to run on the STM32F2 chip I have here?  I want to make sure I have at least a semi-good hardware assembly.
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2011-10-26T12:34:40 < karlp> CheBuzz: the stlink repo has some examples for f1 and 32l and f4, it should be pretty simple to tweak the gpio registernames to do what you want: https://github.com/texane/stlink/tree/master/example/blink
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2011-10-27T05:33:41 < AaronM> does anyone have any info on the stm32f4-disc in linux?
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2011-10-27T18:44:10 < ziph> Do any of the M3/M4 STM's have anything remotely like an MMU?
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2011-10-27T19:12:27 < karlp> ziph: nope,  you just get an MPU, so not really enough for full inux with protected memory
2011-10-27T19:13:09 < ziph> Yeah, I'm not after full Linux, I was considering letting users run compiled C on the product but wouldn't want to do that if they could clobber things. :)
2011-10-27T19:17:44 < karlp> you're going to have to read the docs on the MPU more, I don't have any to say.
2011-10-27T19:36:02 <@jpa-> ziph: you could use some interpreted language for extensions, like pawn
2011-10-27T19:37:04 < ziph> Yeah, I was writing one, but I want to cut some time off the project.
2011-10-27T19:37:32 < ziph> I found Pawn tonight, I haven't decided if I like it yet or not.
2011-10-27T19:37:43 < ziph> Squirrel is nice but still a bit heavy for a 64Kb MCU.
2011-10-27T19:37:47 < ziph> Know of any others?
2011-10-27T19:38:03 < ziph> The other option was to run LLVM IR or write an LLVM IR->Some bytecode generator.
2011-10-27T19:38:03 <+Steffanx> Python :P
2011-10-27T19:38:09 < ziph> Yeah, no.
2011-10-27T19:38:14 < ziph> Waaaay too big.
2011-10-27T19:38:20 < ziph> Although reference counting is a requirement.
2011-10-27T19:38:46 <+Steffanx> python-on-a-chip doesn't look that bad imho
2011-10-27T19:38:52 <+Steffanx> Never tried it
2011-10-27T19:39:20 <+Steffanx> Requires roughly 55 KB program memory too bad
2011-10-27T19:42:14 < ziph> Yeah, you need a heap of memory.
2011-10-27T19:42:36 <+Steffanx> Use external sram :P
2011-10-27T19:42:49 <+Steffanx> It still sucks stm32 doesn't support sdram
2011-10-27T19:43:04 < ziph> There's a project that used SRAM to make a Python board.
2011-10-27T19:43:23 <+Steffanx> The guys of maple tried it
2011-10-27T19:50:56 < karlp> elua?
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2011-10-28T15:16:04 < dekar_> Steffanx, had some presentation a few days ago: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/sellerie.png
2011-10-28T15:16:22 <+Steffanx> FlexB.E.R.T :)
2011-10-28T15:16:28 < dekar_> :D
2011-10-28T15:16:44 < dekar_> PEW PEW lasers!
2011-10-28T15:16:55 <+Steffanx> Presentation for your company or customers?
2011-10-28T15:16:58 < dekar_> even my professor had a good laugh :)
2011-10-28T15:17:04 < dekar_> oh, university
2011-10-28T15:17:44 <+Steffanx> No star wars related text?? :S
2011-10-28T15:17:50 < dekar_> nope
2011-10-28T16:04:24 < Laurenceb> ooh armv8 is 64bit
2011-10-28T16:06:23 <+Steffanx> Who needs that? :P
2011-10-28T16:16:09 < karlp> me.
2011-10-28T16:16:22 < karlp> ran into problems yesterday when I found out that double on avr is actually single
2011-10-28T16:26:57 < Laurenceb> heh what the hell
2011-10-28T16:27:03 < Laurenceb> 64bit float?!
2011-10-28T16:27:14 < Laurenceb> on an avr... you're doing it wrong
2011-10-28T16:32:18 < karlp> well, it wasn't really floating point
2011-10-28T16:32:46 < karlp> I had a 32bit float I wanted to store longer termas a 64 bit one
2011-10-28T16:32:57 < karlp> just kept it as a fixed 64bit number instead
2011-10-28T16:37:00 <+Steffanx> You're also using floats Laurenceb, that sucks too on an ARM without fpu :P
2011-10-28T16:37:28 < Laurenceb> heh
2011-10-28T16:40:11 < karlp> performance is irrelevant :)
2011-10-28T16:40:30 < karlp> I'm only communicating at 19200 anyway, the time it takes to transmit 64 bits takes longer than the calculations
2011-10-28T16:43:52 <+Steffanx> Bad, very bad excuse karlp :P
2011-10-28T16:48:39 < karlp> hehe
2011-10-28T16:49:56 < karlp> one day I'll rebuild this piece with a M0, like those new nxp parts in so20, then am I allowed to use 64 bits?
2011-10-28T16:50:41 <+Steffanx> fixed point, yes :P
2011-10-28T16:52:10 < karlp> oh sush
2011-10-28T16:52:21 < karlp> I did all the filtering and adc summing in fixed point,
2011-10-28T16:52:26 <+Steffanx> :D
2011-10-28T16:52:31 < karlp> then I want to just do a couple of divides and multiplies
2011-10-28T16:52:35 < karlp> just on the sums,
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2011-10-29T15:23:31 < Thorn> i2c functions in the lpc1xxx library are about 2**10 times easier to use than their stm equivalents
2011-10-29T15:24:10 <+Steffanx> Oh?
2011-10-29T15:25:10 < Thorn> all they basically have (not counting init etc) is I2C_MasterTransferData() and I2C_SlaveTransferData()
2011-10-29T15:25:36 <+Steffanx> Time to rewrite the stm32 functions?
2011-10-29T15:26:06 < Thorn> STM has a separate i2c library which probably imitates these
2011-10-29T15:26:55 < Thorn> http://pastebin.com/C0njKqea
2011-10-29T15:27:48 < Thorn> (s/val/data/ ...)
2011-10-29T15:28:20 <+Steffanx> I still don't really like those struct based setups
2011-10-29T15:29:23 < Thorn> doesn't matter much, struct fields could be separate function arguments
2011-10-29T15:30:22 < Thorn> the idea is that you pass i2c address, what to send and how much you expect to receive, that's it
2011-10-29T15:31:29 < Thorn> it will even setup interrupts for you if you specify interrupt modes. you only pass callbacks then
2011-10-29T15:32:36 <+Steffanx> Which lpc are you using?
2011-10-29T15:32:56 < Thorn> 1768
2011-10-29T15:35:21 <+Steffanx> I used an ARM from NXP once.. I didn't really like the datasheet/reference manual
2011-10-29T15:35:58 <+Steffanx> *user manual
2011-10-29T15:36:09 < Thorn> I like the lpc1xxx manual better than rm0008+pm0056
2011-10-29T15:36:23 <+Steffanx> I don't
2011-10-29T15:36:45 <+Steffanx> )
2011-10-29T15:37:27 < Thorn> maybe it's because there're no connectivity/usb access/high density/value line stuff
2011-10-29T15:37:52 < Thorn> it also includes a really good chapter on NVIC
2011-10-29T15:40:01 <+Steffanx> The lpc43xx looks nice
2011-10-29T15:40:15 <+Steffanx> Even better than the stm32F4 family
2011-10-29T15:40:57 < Thorn> if it ever becomes available. you still can't even find lpc1788
2011-10-29T15:41:45 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that sucks
2011-10-29T15:42:59 < Thorn> STM probably pushes their chips out a year before they can be considered finished. huge errata, no availability problems
2011-10-29T15:44:22 <+Steffanx> http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Microcontroller/_/N-100185?CMP=KNC-Octopart_VSE&action=products&cat=1&catalogId=500201&cutTape=&inStock=&langId=-1&mfr=NXP&myCatalog=&proto=&regionalStock=&rohs=&slnk=e&storeId=500201&term=LPC4310FET100%2C551&topSellers=
2011-10-29T15:44:25 <+Steffanx> LOL @ lead time
2011-10-29T15:44:28 <+Steffanx> 999 weeks :)
2011-10-29T15:46:47 < Thorn> there're also lots of cheap low end stm32's (even as low as 4K RAM), that's probably inportant for mass products
2011-10-29T15:51:25 <+Steffanx> Hmm, none of the M3 LPC's with EBI seem to be available
2011-10-29T15:51:56 < Thorn> exactly
2011-10-29T15:53:10 < Thorn> mouser did have lpc1788 last time I looked
2011-10-29T15:54:45 <+Steffanx> The bga package is in stock.. YAY
2011-10-29T15:55:22 < Thorn> I believe they had lqfp too
2011-10-29T15:55:22 <+Steffanx> BGA is still a no-go for me
2011-10-29T15:55:28 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but not in stock
2011-10-29T15:57:31 <+Steffanx> The do have the 1778
2011-10-29T15:58:04 < Thorn> I wonder why it tries to talk to address 2 first, happens every time http://i.imgur.com/ukZZO.jpg
2011-10-29T15:58:32 <+Steffanx> It's a feature :P
2011-10-29T16:04:26 < Thorn> a lot of  books and articles from the 90s lament the move to smd. I wonder how long we have until everything becomes bga, csp and 0402
2011-10-29T16:10:27 <+Steffanx> That will be the end of my hobby :P
2011-10-29T16:11:16 < Thorn> and a lot of small businesses too
2011-10-29T16:12:12 < BrainDamage> that wouldn't be as bad as chip-on-boards
2011-10-29T16:12:27 < BrainDamage> bonding machines and cleanrooms are much more hairy
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2011-10-29T18:46:38 < karlp> Steffanx: what's EBI?
2011-10-29T18:52:25 <+Steffanx> External Bus Interface
2011-10-29T18:52:35 <+Steffanx> Interface for S(D)RAM Etc.
2011-10-29T18:52:53 <+Steffanx> I think it's what ST calls FSMC
2011-10-29T18:53:09 <+Steffanx> (Flexible Static Memory Controller)
2011-10-29T18:55:25 < karlp> thanks
2011-10-29T18:55:40 < karlp> SMD is both a curse and a blessing for hobbyists I think.
2011-10-29T18:55:55 < karlp> it makes things smaller and lower power, and vastly cheaper
2011-10-29T18:56:06 < karlp> and a single sided surface mount board is easier to make than through hole
2011-10-29T19:00:56 < karlp> we've got a guy in at work recently to do some assembly, who's never soldered before
2011-10-29T19:01:28 < karlp> he's doing just fine with surface mount soldering
2011-10-29T19:01:29 < Thorn> are there cheap controllerless tft displays on ebay? they must be much faster when connected to a builtin lcd controller in a high end cm3
2011-10-29T19:01:36 < karlp> but yeah, no DFN/QFN, no BGA
2011-10-29T19:03:54 < Thorn> can he do 8 leds in a row all neat and parallel to each other?
2011-10-29T19:04:39 < Thorn> QFN should be doable (or so I hope since I ordered a couple of qfn chips recently)
2011-10-29T19:06:27 < karlp> they're neat enough, he's a lot better now than he was last week :)
2011-10-29T19:06:39 < karlp> are you doing QFn by hving oversided pads, pretinned?
2011-10-29T19:07:17 < karlp> I tried hand soldering a DFN recently, but I think I made the lands too small,
2011-10-29T19:07:25 < karlp> it didn't work anyway,
2011-10-29T19:07:34 < karlp> and I didn't have any more samples to try it out with :)
2011-10-29T19:07:49 < Thorn> probably, so you can heat the pads
2011-10-29T19:08:42 < karlp> yeah, I'll do it again if I have to, but QFP is much easier, and normally, so far at least, still an option
2011-10-29T19:12:59 < Thorn> I soldered a couple SOICs today by tinning the pads and then heating the pins with no solder on the tip, I wonder if it's a good method for QFPs too
2011-10-29T19:16:10 < Thorn> in order to avoid solder bridges
2011-10-29T19:17:09 < karlp> one of the other guys at work just smears a whole bunch of solder across each side, then hits it withthe wick
2011-10-29T19:17:15 < karlp> seems to come up beautifully,
2011-10-29T19:17:20  * karlp is not the soldering man
2011-10-29T19:20:04 < Thorn> that works but the pins look like there's no solder on them at all
2011-10-29T19:23:40 < Thorn> which probably doesn't matter as long as there's solder under them
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2011-10-29T20:04:27 <+Steffanx> You used solder paste for that qfn karlp ?
2011-10-29T20:04:40 <+Steffanx> It should be doable with solder paste and over sized pads
2011-10-29T20:10:59 <+Steffanx> Hmm, the LPC's have a EBI which handle SDRAM but no Camera interface, the STM32's have a camera interface but, cant handle SDRAM
2011-10-29T20:12:09 <+Steffanx> I just want to do some very very basic image processing. I don't NEED the camera interface, but it would make my live a bit easier
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2011-10-29T21:16:58 < karlp> no, no paste here
2011-10-29T21:17:05 < karlp> not yet anyway
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2011-10-30T00:28:57 <+Steffanx> karlp get soem cheap paste from dealextreme :P
2011-10-30T00:29:00 <+Steffanx> *some
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2011-10-30T00:36:19 <+Steffanx> Lo
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2011-10-30T12:57:01 < Thorn> it appears that the stack grows 16 bytes minimum with every function call
2011-10-30T12:58:45 <@jpa-> often, yes, but not always
2011-10-30T12:58:55 <@jpa-> you can easily see how much from objdump -d output
2011-10-30T12:59:11 < Thorn> http://pastebin.com/AwqEyuiW
2011-10-30T12:59:49 < Thorn> stat says "stack grew 16 bytes"
2011-10-30T13:00:02 < Thorn> *that
2011-10-30T13:02:14 < Thorn> also the stack size in main() is >1500 bytes, that seems a lot
2011-10-30T13:02:27 <@jpa-> i see only 8 bytes per function: http://paste.dy.fi/4fr/plain
2011-10-30T13:03:22 < Thorn> push    {r4, lr} ?
2011-10-30T13:03:35 < Thorn> looking at my disassembly now
2011-10-30T13:04:31 < Thorn> I've got push{r4-r6,lr}, that explains it (this is not gcc btw)
2011-10-30T13:04:55 <@jpa-> arm eabi requires 8 byte stack alignment, so unless you disable the eabi-compatibility you will always get a multiple of 8 bytes per function
2011-10-30T13:05:41 < Thorn> 16 bytes per call is a lot for a rtos with multiple stacks
2011-10-30T13:05:47 <@jpa-> it is
2011-10-30T13:06:01 <@jpa-> i was struggling a bit with the same
2011-10-30T13:06:16 <@jpa-> then i got more ram :)
2011-10-30T13:07:46 < Thorn> especially since interrupt handlers will use the same stacks (although I believe it's possible to have a separate stack for interrupt handlers if you use non-privileged mode for user code?)
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2011-10-31T02:05:37 < Tom_itx> anybody have the link to the st-link software download page?
2011-10-31T02:12:09 < Eartaker> I do in the topic of #stmrobotics 1 sec
2011-10-31T02:12:54 < Eartaker> http://supp.iar.com/Download/SW/?item=EWARM-KS32
2011-10-31T02:12:58 < Eartaker> try thaty
2011-10-31T02:13:00 < Eartaker> that
2011-10-31T02:14:37 < Tom_itx> that has the St-link downloader in it?
2011-10-31T02:27:57 < BrainDamage> Tom_itx: https://github.com/texane/stlink
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2011-10-31T02:32:09 < Tom_itx> thanks
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2011-10-31T03:32:43 < Tom_itx> BrainDamage, that one is for linux only right?
2011-10-31T03:33:56 < Tom_itx> err non windows
2011-10-31T03:38:59 < Eartaker> hmm
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2011-10-31T11:32:58 < karlp> tom et al, it's currently only for linux, but we're working on removing the only linux dependency,
2011-10-31T11:33:08 < karlp> then it's just libusb, which is on windows too.
2011-10-31T11:33:37 < karlp> it's mostly targetted at linux though, because there were no tools for programming stm boards on linux at all.
2011-10-31T11:33:43 < karlp> the free tools from ST were windows only
2011-10-31T13:07:09 <@jpa-> oh, we have a developer here :)   thanks for the great tool :)
2011-10-31T13:31:22 < karlp> very little of it was me :)
2011-10-31T13:31:43 < karlp> and none of the reverse engineering
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