--- Log opened Sun Jan 01 00:00:58 2012
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2012-01-01T06:44:05  * dekar_ is overclocking his phone to 2ghz
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2012-01-01T07:17:35 < UnaClocker> Epic. ;)
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2012-01-01T20:41:46 <+Steffanx> Finished your kalman filter jpa- ? :p
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2012-01-01T20:44:41 < jpa-> Steffanx: did not even start :)
2012-01-01T20:44:48 < jpa-> i've been very lazy lately
2012-01-01T20:44:52 <+Steffanx> Bad start of the year
2012-01-01T20:45:07 < jpa-> true
2012-01-01T20:45:30 <+Steffanx> So how was the view?
2012-01-01T20:45:46 < jpa-> it was cool
2012-01-01T20:45:55 < jpa-> no eye damage either :)
2012-01-01T20:46:26 < jpa-> first time i spent the new years in city; never though there would be *so* many fireworks
2012-01-01T20:47:29 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-01T20:47:45 <+Steffanx> Everyone can buy/use fireworks over there?
2012-01-01T20:47:51 < jpa-> yeah
2012-01-01T20:48:03 < jpa-> though just from 6 pm to 6 am
2012-01-01T20:48:17 < jpa-> so 12 hours of bang bang each year :P
2012-01-01T20:48:18 <+Steffanx> Oh, there its from 10am to 2am
2012-01-01T20:50:10 < jpa-> so did you finish being the bored guy?
2012-01-01T20:50:43 <+Steffanx> With my family, yes
2012-01-01T20:51:04 < jpa-> congrats
2012-01-01T20:51:17 <+Steffanx> Yes yes
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2012-01-01T20:52:50 <+Steffanx> So not too much vodka for jpa- this year?
2012-01-01T20:54:27 < jpa-> well we always have two bottles in the fridge
2012-01-01T20:54:50 <+Steffanx> You are a real finnish person :D
2012-01-01T20:56:02 < jpa-> yet i don't drink alcohol :D
2012-01-01T20:56:20 <+Steffanx> How's that possible
2012-01-01T20:57:58 < jpa-> well we have a distillation plant to remove any ethanol residue from the tap water
2012-01-01T20:58:34 <+Steffanx> huh :S
2012-01-01T20:59:02 < jpa-> it's hard living in a country where vodka is so abundant
2012-01-01T21:00:47 <+Steffanx> It is? I wasn't even allowed to buy it.. wasn't 21 yet :P
2012-01-01T21:01:03 <+Steffanx> (a few years ago when i was there)
2012-01-01T21:01:34 < jpa-> oh well
2012-01-01T21:01:49 < jpa-> you're so young :)
2012-01-01T21:02:15 <+Steffanx> Your age - 1 = my age, so ...
2012-01-01T21:03:02 < jpa-> indeed
2012-01-01T21:03:25 <+Steffanx> Unless you're website wrong
2012-01-01T21:03:41 <+Steffanx> your
2012-01-01T21:03:44 < jpa-> i think it may be correct
2012-01-01T21:05:06 < jpa-> so what is your next stm32 project?
2012-01-01T21:05:29 <+Steffanx> Still don't know
2012-01-01T21:05:38 <+Steffanx> I'd like to mess with a small camera
2012-01-01T21:05:45 <+Steffanx> And the camera interface
2012-01-01T21:06:28 < jpa-> i would like that too
2012-01-01T21:06:55 < jpa-> make a small H263/H264 encoder that outputs the bitstream over serial or something
2012-01-01T21:07:59 <+Steffanx> An encoder is a little to much for me :P
2012-01-01T21:08:33 < jpa-> well make the electronics and i'll make you the code :P
2012-01-01T21:09:31 <+Steffanx> And isn't a h264 a little to much for a stm32.. F4?
2012-01-01T21:10:38 < jpa-> it doesn't need to implement everything of it
2012-01-01T21:11:13 < jpa-> just basic DCT and maybe some limited motion estimation
2012-01-01T21:11:27 <+Steffanx> 0.0001 fps :P
2012-01-01T21:11:43 < jpa-> i'd say 10 fps or more
2012-01-01T21:11:46 <+Steffanx> And don't you need a license for it?
2012-01-01T21:11:50 < jpa-> assuming VGA
2012-01-01T21:12:05 < jpa-> not for private use, and the standard is public
2012-01-01T21:12:31 <+Steffanx> I thought google came with their websomething because of the license stuff
2012-01-01T21:13:05 < jpa-> sure, if you want to sell stuff or fear that the MPEG-LA is coming for your toenails
2012-01-01T21:13:42 < jpa-> but h263 is more open IIRC
2012-01-01T21:14:44 < jpa-> hmm, maybe not
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2012-01-01T21:44:44 <+Steffanx> maybe :P
2012-01-01T21:53:59 <+Steffanx> Nice overclock dekar__
2012-01-01T21:54:05 <+Steffanx> Battery empty in  minutes?
2012-01-01T21:54:08 <+Steffanx> 5
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2012-01-01T22:35:38 < dekar__> Steffanx, dunno, but it probably kills the battery with heat if kept on for too long
2012-01-01T22:35:54 < dekar__> I guess I'd last an hour with full charge
--- Day changed Mon Jan 02 2012
2012-01-02T00:03:53 < dekar__> Steffanx, the mpeg doesn't charge anything for another 5 years or so iirc
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2012-01-02T15:58:22  * hackkitten waves at the familiar people o/
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2012-01-02T16:09:40  * jpa- steals hackkitten's firmware
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2012-01-02T16:18:03 < hackkitten> :o!!
2012-01-02T16:18:07 < hackkitten> mah firmware~ (o/
2012-01-02T16:22:44 < hackkitten> so codesourcery is the toolchain to use for an STM32F4-Discovery board? :o
2012-01-02T16:25:39 < jpa-> it works
2012-01-02T16:25:57 < jpa-> if you were on linux you might want to build gcc yourself :P
2012-01-02T16:39:23 < hackkitten> no Linux here except in VMs, sorry ;)
2012-01-02T16:39:44 < jpa-> doesn't disturb me :)
2012-01-02T16:40:08 < hackkitten> :)
2012-01-02T16:40:22 < hackkitten> "CodeSourcery is now Mentor Graphics Sourcery Tools"
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2012-01-02T23:40:21 < dekar__> Steffann, izua told me he'll eventually come back btw :)
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2012-01-02T23:52:44 <+Steffann> Oh, he's alive dekar__ :D
2012-01-02T23:53:13 <+Steffann> Busy with study related stuff?
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2012-01-03T20:12:21 <+Steffann> izua is busy with important things dekar ? :D
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2012-01-04T17:09:08 < Laurenceb> anyone here used i2c with chibios?
2012-01-04T17:12:16 < jpa-> i have used spi :)
2012-01-04T17:12:53 < Laurenceb> how does the wait work?
2012-01-04T17:13:06 < Laurenceb> if you use polling wait
2012-01-04T17:14:02 < Laurenceb> when is it polled?
2012-01-04T17:15:06 < jpa-> hmm you mean the polling stuff in the HAL config?
2012-01-04T17:16:05 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-01-04T17:18:04 < jpa-> i guess the function blocks until it is ready to transmit
2012-01-04T17:18:40 < Laurenceb> so it hoggs the cpu?
2012-01-04T17:19:26 < jpa-> quite much yeah.. though i don't quite see under which conditions it needs to poll anyway
2012-01-04T17:21:36 < Laurenceb> to see if the hardware is ready
2012-01-04T17:24:38 < jpa-> i wonder if that has actually changed in the SVN trunk anyway.. version 2.3.4 has the polling stuff but the svn trunk does not
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2012-01-04T23:20:58 < sourcebox> Hi everybody. Just want to say that I got my AVR to STM port done successfully.
2012-01-04T23:35:49 < karlp> what were you porting again?
2012-01-04T23:36:53 < sourcebox> A little thing that makes sound, using USB MIDI
2012-01-04T23:38:19 < sourcebox> It was ported from a ATmega32U4 to an STM32L1xx
2012-01-04T23:38:56 < karlp> oh that's right, you were having some issues with the usb stuff on the L1.
2012-01-04T23:39:01 < karlp> any further problems?
2012-01-04T23:39:09 < sourcebox> And I have to say that the performance of the STM is incredible compared to the AVR
2012-01-04T23:39:23 < karlp> yeah :)
2012-01-04T23:39:36 < sourcebox> No real problems just some stupid beginners errors
2012-01-04T23:39:41 < karlp> groovy
2012-01-04T23:40:26 < sourcebox> I used an STM32L-DISCOVERY to do it
2012-01-04T23:42:31 < sourcebox> I think I can go with an even smaller chip (48pin) on the production board, but they seem to be a little difficult to get.
2012-01-04T23:44:27 < karlp> cool, I'm hoping to get back to some stm32 projects this week.
2012-01-04T23:45:03 < karlp> tidy up as many outstanding stlink changes as possible, retest them all on the three different discovery boards, and then back to working out my spi code.
2012-01-04T23:45:09 < karlp> still doing something wrong there somewhere
2012-01-04T23:45:37 < sourcebox> I saw you put up a new release
2012-01-04T23:46:03 < karlp> there's been a few, I currently can't vouch for which ones work
2012-01-04T23:46:38 < sourcebox> Honestly I didn't check them out 'cause I'm glad that I have a working one here
2012-01-04T23:46:50 < karlp> good idea :)
2012-01-04T23:47:02 < karlp> I normally keep my top of tree working with VL and L,
2012-01-04T23:47:09 < karlp> I need to get the F4 board into the test list.
2012-01-04T23:47:18 < karlp> what happens in texane's master is anyone's guess.
2012-01-04T23:48:43 < karlp> meh, I think I'm going to put hte computer down for a while, don't feel like starting all this again tonight..
2012-01-04T23:49:10 < sourcebox> One question, on OS X the build doesn't run through because a library misses an index. After using ranlib everything works well.
2012-01-04T23:49:30 < sourcebox> But I guess there are people that don't know this
2012-01-04T23:49:56 < sourcebox> Can this be fixed somewhere in the makefile
2012-01-04T23:55:35 < sourcebox> BTW has anyone used the clock configuration tool from ST? Doesn't work in OpenOffice/LibreOffice for me.
2012-01-04T23:59:44 < karlp> when I realised what it did, I decided I'd just set up clocks myself
2012-01-04T23:59:52 < karlp> seemd far too confusing
--- Day changed Thu Jan 05 2012
2012-01-05T00:00:20 < sourcebox> I wanted to do some counterchecks with it
2012-01-05T00:01:37 < sourcebox> Initially I made the dumb mistake to confuse HSE on with HSE bypass
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2012-01-05T01:48:05 < karlp> bleh, so I sat down to get this underway again, and I can't get systick to work on the VL board even.
2012-01-05T01:48:15 < karlp> I thought that would be easy after getting it working on the 32L
2012-01-05T01:53:11 < karlp> I can step through the code just fine, I wonder what clock I forgot to turn on this time...
2012-01-05T02:03:41 < karlp> bleh, no, just screwed up the BRR/BSRR for the f1
2012-01-05T02:03:47 < karlp> was working the whole time
2012-01-05T02:04:32 < karlp> apparnetly gdb doesn't like showing me the 64bit systick variable I was updating.
2012-01-05T02:04:35 < karlp> thanks gdb
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2012-01-05T03:18:48 < karlp> most ios are 5v tolerante
2012-01-05T03:18:55 < karlp> also, working :)
2012-01-05T03:19:03 < karlp> now just to make the whole thing all over again on the F4,
2012-01-05T03:19:13 < karlp> so I can have two viable test programs for all the boards,
2012-01-05T03:19:22 < karlp> bed thyme!
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2012-01-05T20:31:59 < Thorn> I suck at sodering :(
2012-01-05T20:32:07 <+Steffanx> I don't
2012-01-05T20:32:16 <+Steffanx> Solder paste + solder iron :D
2012-01-05T20:32:18 <+Steffanx> Works nice
2012-01-05T20:33:23 < Thorn> I even bought a hot air station and some kester paste today
2012-01-05T20:33:35 < jpa-> solder + flux + soldering iron, works fine :)
2012-01-05T20:34:19 <+Steffanx> Solder paste + solder iron :D .. no need to clean the board :D
2012-01-05T20:34:33 <+Steffanx> I do, but it's not really necessary
2012-01-05T20:34:41 <+Steffanx> And solder paste is cheapish
2012-01-05T20:35:56 < Thorn> tried installing a qfp64 0.5mm twice today, first tie with iron, swecond time with hot air and paste
2012-01-05T20:36:15 < Thorn> result: some bent pins and one pad partially broken off
2012-01-05T20:36:26 <+Steffanx> Huh?
2012-01-05T20:36:30 <+Steffanx> How you do that? :D
2012-01-05T20:37:21 < Thorn> I should probably record a master class and upload it to youtube
2012-01-05T20:37:54 <+Steffanx> Haha, yeah
2012-01-05T20:38:12 <+Steffanx> In Russian ofcourse, so you can teach us Russian too
2012-01-05T20:47:32 < Thorn> there're probably lots of resources out there on how to swear in Russian :)
2012-01-05T20:47:45 <+Steffanx> Nah, that's not the interesting part
2012-01-05T20:52:10 < BrainDamage> they won't feel genuine
2012-01-05T20:52:16 < BrainDamage> it has to be spontaneous
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2012-01-05T22:06:04 < Rious> does anyone know how I get stm32vl disco board to work on Mac OS X, specifically how I stop the native USB scsi drivers from loading?
2012-01-05T22:06:36 < jnosky> Solder a qfp, while holding the board at nearly 90degree to worksurface
2012-01-05T22:06:53 < jnosky> Then drag a giant ball of solder down one side
2012-01-05T22:07:03 < jnosky> turn 90 degree, repeat ;)
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2012-01-05T22:25:23 < BrainDamage> Rious: yes, there's a kext you have to load
2012-01-05T22:25:33 < BrainDamage> it will prevent the scsi driver to load
2012-01-05T22:25:42 < BrainDamage> my classmate wrote it
2012-01-05T22:27:32 < Rious> do you have a link, I don't see it in the project?
2012-01-05T22:32:31 < BrainDamage> it should be
2012-01-05T22:36:07 < Rious> you are correct, I was looking at a fork w/o it
2012-01-05T22:36:11 < Rious> thank you
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2012-01-05T23:20:57 < resttime> Hello, I need help reading from a microSD card via SPI
2012-01-05T23:21:38 < resttime> When I put the pins into an Arduino it works fine
2012-01-05T23:22:14 < resttime> I've tried multiple SD libraries for STM32 multiple times each
2012-01-05T23:22:41 < resttime> but it always fails to work at some point
2012-01-05T23:23:05 < resttime> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml This is the microcotroller I'm using specifically
2012-01-05T23:30:18 < Laurenceb_> ooh breadboard firendly
2012-01-05T23:30:47 < resttime> yessir
2012-01-05T23:31:18 < Tom_itx> does micro run the same code as regular SD?
2012-01-05T23:31:36 < resttime> I believe it should
2012-01-05T23:31:53 < Laurenceb_> some cards are glitchy
2012-01-05T23:32:01 < Laurenceb_> what cards are you using?
2012-01-05T23:32:11 < Tom_itx> are there any 'gotcha's
2012-01-05T23:32:17 < Laurenceb_> my sandisk cards always work
2012-01-05T23:32:18 < Tom_itx> on wiring ether net?
2012-01-05T23:32:21 < resttime> Using a Kingston 2GB
2012-01-05T23:32:33 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-01-05T23:32:37 < Laurenceb_> id hope they would work
2012-01-05T23:32:49 < Laurenceb_> search for me on github, then stm32-logger
2012-01-05T23:32:52 < resttime> not too sure what you mean Tom_itx
2012-01-05T23:33:09 < Tom_itx> impedance matched traces etc
2012-01-05T23:33:22 < Tom_itx> besides that
2012-01-05T23:33:47 < resttime> well I'm using this thing http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/music-shield-p-642.html
2012-01-05T23:34:05 < resttime> ignoring the vs1053
2012-01-05T23:34:06 < Tom_itx> what speed does the discovery board ethernet run at?
2012-01-05T23:34:51 < resttime> not too sure what you mean by ethernet
2012-01-05T23:35:00 < resttime> GPIO pins are set at 50Mhz
2012-01-05T23:38:10 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-01-05T23:38:15 < Laurenceb_> im sure thats not the issue
2012-01-05T23:38:17 < Tom_itx> 100Mbit/s
2012-01-05T23:38:22 < Laurenceb_> usually its to do with card init
2012-01-05T23:38:23 < Tom_itx> @25Mhz
2012-01-05T23:38:36 < Laurenceb_> you need the right pullups at power up
2012-01-05T23:39:00 < Tom_itx> Laurenceb who are you talking to?
2012-01-05T23:39:11 < Laurenceb_> resttime
2012-01-05T23:39:42 < resttime> power hmm...
2012-01-05T23:40:02 < resttime> okay i think i might have been an idiot for the past 3 days trying to ge this thingto work
2012-01-05T23:40:18 < resttime> do MISO MOSI SCLK voltages matter?
2012-01-05T23:40:29 < Tom_itx> sure do
2012-01-05T23:40:34 < resttime> D:
2012-01-05T23:40:36 < Tom_itx> 3.3v i believe
2012-01-05T23:40:44 < Tom_itx> then it's negotiated with the host
2012-01-05T23:40:47 < resttime> for the past 3 days....
2012-01-05T23:41:10 < Tom_itx> the host should broadcast it's voltage range
2012-01-05T23:41:30 < resttime> arduino pins output 5volt and the et-stamp outputs 3.3v
2012-01-05T23:41:49 < Laurenceb_> interference on usused microsd pins can screw it up
2012-01-05T23:41:55 < Tom_itx> then you init 3 different sequences
2012-01-05T23:42:00 < Tom_itx> first for mmc
2012-01-05T23:42:05 < Tom_itx> second for regular sd
2012-01-05T23:42:14 < Tom_itx> and third for high speed sd
2012-01-05T23:42:21 < Tom_itx> err high capacity sd
2012-01-05T23:42:51 < Tom_itx> there are values that will pass/fail for each
2012-01-05T23:43:14 < Tom_itx> it's been ages since i messed with it but that's the main idea
2012-01-05T23:43:53 < Tom_itx> elm chan comes about as close as anybody to being correct
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2012-01-05T23:45:23 < resttime> would you happen to know a way to increase the voltage of my MISO etc. outputs?
2012-01-05T23:45:38 < resttime> multimeter revealed that it gets to 1.8v by the time it hits the microsd
2012-01-05T23:46:26 < Tom_itx> voltage translator
2012-01-05T23:46:38 < resttime> also thanks for your stm32-logger Laurenceb_, I'll study it
2012-01-05T23:49:52 < resttime> okay thanks for the help from both of you, I really appreaciate it. I spent days trying to figure this out. Time to find myself a voltage translator
2012-01-05T23:50:58 < Tom_itx> GTL2003PW et family
2012-01-05T23:51:12 < Tom_itx> range from 2 bit to many many
2012-01-05T23:52:10 < resttime> :D
2012-01-05T23:53:08 < Laurenceb_> try pullup resistors on the unused pins
2012-01-05T23:55:06 < Tom_itx> or a simple voltage divider
2012-01-05T23:55:15 < Tom_itx> those chips are cheap though
2012-01-05T23:56:12 < resttime> What do you mean? Sorry, I'm rather new to electronics as a whole. Google was usually my mentor
2012-01-05T23:58:26 < Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/logger/Datalogger32_mmc_sch.png
2012-01-05T23:58:34 < Tom_itx> that's an avr but look how i wired the SD
2012-01-05T23:58:54 < Tom_itx> you'll need different values probably since you're dealing with different voltages
--- Day changed Fri Jan 06 2012
2012-01-06T00:02:18 < resttime> hmm, so voltage divider works in a way that depending on the setup of resistors, the voltage between the two will be higher
2012-01-06T00:03:00 < Tom_itx> that might not work in your case, i'm not sure
2012-01-06T00:03:18 < Tom_itx> you're only getting 1.8v out mosi?
2012-01-06T00:04:02 < Tom_itx> i'm new to arm so i don't know what they're supposed to put out on the pins
2012-01-06T00:04:13 < Tom_itx> i'll be finding out soon enough
2012-01-06T00:04:41 < resttime> well the music shield thingie has resistors between it's mosi etc. input and microsd
2012-01-06T00:05:04 < Tom_itx> the arduino?
2012-01-06T00:05:05 < resttime> so my et-stamp outputs 3.3 and it becomes 1.8 by the time it gets to the icrosd
2012-01-06T00:05:12 < Tom_itx> you're dealing with 2 different animals
2012-01-06T00:05:43 < Tom_itx> you may need pullups
2012-01-06T00:05:48 < resttime> music shield is for arduino, trying to make it work with stm32
2012-01-06T00:06:09 < BrainDamage> why don't you simply use the stm32 directly?
2012-01-06T00:06:31 < BrainDamage> it has adc and dac, and probably sufficient mips to decode the audio codec on the fly
2012-01-06T00:06:38 < Tom_itx> what will the io on the discovery board tolerate?
2012-01-06T00:07:28 < BrainDamage> it's the stm32 bare chip unbuffered
2012-01-06T00:07:34 < resttime> BrainDamage, trying to read from SD Card before anything
2012-01-06T00:08:03 < resttime> I believe 3.3V is max but i'll check some datasheets
2012-01-06T00:08:10 < Laurenceb_> 5v
2012-01-06T00:08:15 < Laurenceb_> on most pins
2012-01-06T00:08:39 < Tom_itx> yeah i was told a couple of em are kinda sensitive but i don't know which ones
2012-01-06T00:09:51 < resttime> et-stamp only takes in 3.3v from what i see
2012-01-06T00:11:51 < Tom_itx> what do you guys normally use when you need to buffer them to 5v?
2012-01-06T00:12:07 < Tom_itx> i kinda like that translator
2012-01-06T00:12:17 < Tom_itx> i'm sure there are other ways
2012-01-06T00:12:50 < Tom_itx> i like it because it's bidirectional with no direction pin
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2012-01-06T00:36:06 < karlp> Tom_itx: I just ignore things that want 5V, but that's not always a very fair option, I know.
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2012-01-06T01:02:28 < Tom_itx> for the most part they would probably work
2012-01-06T01:03:16 <+Steffanx> Rious, did the kext work for you?
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2012-01-06T01:11:29 < resttime> I'll have to wait/scavenge for some voltage translators. and once again thanks for the help, learned a bunch
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2012-01-06T02:27:35 < Tom_itx> in the part data sheet what are FT and TT in reference to on maximum Vih?
2012-01-06T02:27:48 < Tom_itx> one is a 3.3v and the other is 5v
2012-01-06T02:29:56 < Tom_itx> doesn't appear to be part of the part number
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2012-01-06T02:56:47 < karlp> sorry what?
2012-01-06T02:57:07 < Tom_itx> i found reference to it in the sheet
2012-01-06T02:57:15 < Tom_itx> most appear to be FT
2012-01-06T02:57:17 < karlp> all the pin pins marked FT are Five Tolerant, vs Three Tolerant
2012-01-06T02:57:18 < karlp> yeah,
2012-01-06T02:57:18 < Tom_itx> which is 5v
2012-01-06T02:57:27 < karlp> yeah, most of them are 5v tolerant.
2012-01-06T02:57:34 < Tom_itx> somebody told me to leave PB5 alone
2012-01-06T02:57:35 < karlp> what do you mean by part number?
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2012-01-06T02:58:05 < karlp> check the sheet for your part :)
2012-01-06T02:58:05 < Tom_itx> i figured it might be part of the part number telling you what you got
2012-01-06T02:58:11 < Tom_itx> it's open
2012-01-06T02:58:32 < Tom_itx> it's the same stm32 discovery everybody else got
2012-01-06T02:58:40 < karlp> heh, there's three you know :)
2012-01-06T02:58:46 < Tom_itx> F4
2012-01-06T02:58:50 < Tom_itx> no i didn't
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2012-01-06T02:59:27 < Tom_itx> so probably no special io buffering needed
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2012-01-06T03:01:06 < karlp> I wouldn't expect so,
2012-01-06T03:01:15 < karlp> I can't find the table right now, do you have it?
2012-01-06T03:01:21 < Tom_itx> yes
2012-01-06T03:01:24 < karlp> the one with FT in the column for most of the pins?
2012-01-06T03:01:33 < Tom_itx> yep
2012-01-06T03:01:36 < karlp> so for any of those, 5V io is just fine.
2012-01-06T03:01:52 < karlp> but it's up to you if the _other_ device can do 3v3.
2012-01-06T03:02:12 < Tom_itx> what timer is generally used for stepper control?
2012-01-06T03:02:15 < karlp> anyway, bed time around here sorry
2012-01-06T03:02:25 < Tom_itx> i need 5 i think
2012-01-06T03:02:26 < karlp> also, I don't have any motors :|
2012-01-06T03:02:33 < Tom_itx> you're useless
2012-01-06T03:02:34 < Tom_itx> :)
2012-01-06T03:02:37 < karlp> yep :)
2012-01-06T03:02:40 < Tom_itx> gnite
2012-01-06T03:02:58 < Tom_itx> i don't have any yet either
2012-01-06T03:03:16 < karlp> ah, but I don't even have any plans for some :)
2012-01-06T03:03:38 < Tom_itx> me either really
2012-01-06T03:03:47 < Tom_itx> somebody wanted me to make a board for em
2012-01-06T03:04:26 < Tom_itx> SD, ether, 5 stepper control, few io, kitchen sink....
2012-01-06T03:05:30 < Tom_itx> looks like TIM1 and TIM8 are earmarked for pwm
2012-01-06T03:07:46 < dekar_> has anyone tried to clock the stm32 to 48mhz using the internal clock source and use that for usb? I know it probably wouldn't meet the usb specifications, but I'm just curious :)
2012-01-06T03:08:30 < Tom_itx> the usb innards don't generate that clock?
2012-01-06T03:08:51 < Tom_itx> avr does
2012-01-06T03:15:06 < dekar_> nope they don't
2012-01-06T03:16:24 < dekar_> Tom_itx, so you can use those AVR with just power and usb connected? no quartz at all?
2012-01-06T03:16:50 < Tom_itx> you need an external clock
2012-01-06T03:17:07 < Tom_itx> i think it has an internal one but i use extern
2012-01-06T03:17:09 < Tom_itx> i've never tried one without
2012-01-06T03:18:16 < BrainDamage> I doubt an internal rc oscillator is accurate enough for usb, altought technology does wonders nowdays
2012-01-06T03:18:16 < Tom_itx> 8Mhz internal osc
2012-01-06T03:18:38 < dekar_> that's what I meant, it has an internal pll ofc, but it is +/-1%
2012-01-06T03:19:03 < Tom_itx>  however the diagram shows it going into the WDT
2012-01-06T03:19:06 < Tom_itx> so i dunno
2012-01-06T03:19:11 < dekar_> BrainDamage, there is some register to tune the internal clock source though
2012-01-06T03:19:19 < dekar_> you could probably make it work
2012-01-06T03:19:24 < BrainDamage> mmm, you'd still need a stable reference
2012-01-06T03:19:32 < BrainDamage> maybe the handshake timing?
2012-01-06T03:19:39 < dekar_> you'd only need it to calibrate it
2012-01-06T03:19:58 < dekar_> once per ?C
2012-01-06T03:19:59 < BrainDamage> I meant for self calibration
2012-01-06T03:20:10 < BrainDamage> without oscillator reference
2012-01-06T03:20:48 < dekar_> would be pretty cool imo :)
2012-01-06T03:21:33 < BrainDamage> I recently bought an used Rb reference, altought it would be a bit overkill to be used as mpu clock :p
2012-01-06T03:21:43 < BrainDamage> mcu*
2012-01-06T03:22:50 < dekar_> haha, neat
2012-01-06T03:23:08 < dekar_> the stm32 can only be calibrated in 80hz steps though
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2012-01-07T18:16:10 < sourcebox> Hello karlp. You posted about stlink support for openocd some days ago. Did you try to get it work?
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2012-01-08T15:33:49 < Thorn> it works!!!111 http://i.imgur.com/NKzAn.jpg
2012-01-08T15:34:13 < Thorn> well, for certain values of "works"
2012-01-08T15:39:01 < jpa-> yay a led is on \o/
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2012-01-08T15:40:23 < Thorn> not just a led but usb 2.0 and rs-232 too
2012-01-08T15:42:16 < Thorn> ftdi chips must be really good if they run at a 2.0 speed with a layout like that
2012-01-08T15:43:07 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-01-08T15:43:07 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-01-08.html
2012-01-08T15:43:58 <+Steffanx> What works Thorn ? :)
2012-01-08T15:44:04 <+Steffanx> You board?
2012-01-08T15:44:15 < Thorn> right
2012-01-08T15:44:47 < Thorn> 3rd soldering attempt was successful
2012-01-08T15:45:28 <+Steffanx> lol
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2012-01-08T16:44:22 < mansfeld> hi folks
2012-01-08T16:44:48 < jpa-> hello
2012-01-08T16:45:36 < mansfeld> I'm having a bit of trouble at the moment with my STM32W108... some builds I make seem to automatically set the readout protection bits and then don't work right... this is with the ST-Link Utility
2012-01-08T16:45:43 < mansfeld> has anyone experienced this before?
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2012-01-08T17:42:05 < karlp> mansfeld: you're the first person I knwo of using the stm32W with stlink, do you mean the windows ST provided ST-Link tool?
2012-01-08T17:42:13 < karlp> what programmer/debugger are you  using?
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2012-01-08T17:50:01 < mansfeld> karlp: yes, I'm using what they call the "STM32 ST-Link Utility", using the STM32 discovery board as a programme
2012-01-08T17:57:32 < mansfeld> actually, it's not all that important, it seems just recompiling and re-programming a few times fixed it for some reason :/
2012-01-08T17:58:22 < mansfeld> there is something that's bothering me a bit more though, if I put the microcontroller in "deep sleep" (SLEEPMODE_NOTIMER) it's using over 700uA
2012-01-08T17:59:33 < mansfeld> whereas the datasheet mentions something like 900nA... suspiciously, that's close to the specified consumption in "fake sleep" (when the debugger is still active), is it possible it has something to do with that? and is there something I can do to deactivate it?
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2012-01-08T18:36:25 < karlp> which discovery board? (there are three of them, 32VL, 32L and F4)
2012-01-08T18:36:58 < karlp> it might be a problem with how the debugger detaches, but if you're using the ST tool, there's not much that can be done about it.
2012-01-08T18:37:13 < karlp> do you program, detach the dbeugger, and then run the program and measure the current?
2012-01-08T18:37:20 < karlp> or is the stlink still attached?
2012-01-08T18:44:50 < mansfeld> karlp: it's the 32VL, and I've tried both. Debugger attached, debugger detached, and resetting the board after detaching the debugger. Doesn't seem to make a difference either way
2012-01-08T18:45:42 < mansfeld> is there another tool I could use that would save me that problem? I've tried using Atollic Studio lite, and it's even worse
2012-01-08T18:50:41 < jpa-> are you sure that the current is drawn by the microcontroller and not by e.g. a regulator on the board?
2012-01-08T18:57:18 < mansfeld> jpa-: well, I am wondering about that, but there's no easy way to measure that. I've only got one regulator on the board and it's in series with the microcontroller. there's nothing else on the board but passives (it's basically the reference design with a few things moved around)
2012-01-08T18:58:13 < mansfeld> If I can't get it fixed though I'll solder some wires to bypass the regulator, but even so, it shouldn't be dissipating that much current (I'll check though)
2012-01-08T18:58:45 < jpa-> how much quiescent current is the regulator specified to take?
2012-01-08T18:59:02 < jpa-> ie. which regulator is it?
2012-01-08T18:59:10 < mansfeld> under 1 uA, it's an ADP162
2012-01-08T19:00:21 < jpa-> ah, ok
2012-01-08T19:00:37 < jpa-> have you detached the debugger wires?
2012-01-08T19:00:55 < mansfeld> yes, I tried
2012-01-08T19:01:05 < mansfeld> and then power cycled the board just to make sure
2012-01-08T19:02:53 < jpa-> it's annoyingly difficult to try track such leaks :/
2012-01-08T19:03:03 < mansfeld> indeed :)
2012-01-08T19:03:18 < jpa-> i've often been burned by elcaps leaking ~50µA
2012-01-08T19:04:01 < mansfeld> it doesn't really help that it's my first time using a cortex microcontroller, so I don't really know what to look for ine the code.. been testing components and can't find anything that would be drawing current
2012-01-08T19:06:33 <+Steffanx> Doesn't the vl baord have a special point to measure the current?
2012-01-08T19:07:02 < mansfeld> hmm, I wouldn't know, I made my own
2012-01-08T19:07:16 <+Steffanx> The jumper next to the stm32f100
2012-01-08T19:07:22 < mansfeld> but I should have thought about it
2012-01-08T19:07:41 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/jumper-20120108-180734.png
2012-01-08T19:08:19 < mansfeld> actually, I'm trying to measure the consumption of my stm32w board, I'm only using the dicovery kit as a debugger
2012-01-08T19:08:28 <+Steffanx> Ah ofcourse
2012-01-08T19:08:44 <+Steffanx> You mentioned it before
2012-01-08T19:08:49 <+Steffanx> I forgot about it
2012-01-08T19:08:55 < mansfeld> obviously I didn't think of including that on my own board :p that would have been too easy
2012-01-08T19:09:08 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-08T19:09:36 <+Steffanx> Just curious.. you made your own board, incl. the wireless stuff?
2012-01-08T19:09:53 < mansfeld> yes
2012-01-08T19:10:06 < mansfeld> I basically copied the reference design, since I'd never done any wireless before
2012-01-08T19:10:07 <+Steffanx> Does it work well?
2012-01-08T19:10:41 < mansfeld> same performance as the eval kit (STM32-RFCKIT), to my surprise
2012-01-08T19:10:57 < mansfeld> I'd been told it was really tricky, but somehow it worked
2012-01-08T19:11:00 <+Steffanx> It sucks the stm32w family is relatively slow
2012-01-08T19:11:37 < mansfeld> yeah.. In retrospect I'm not convinced it was the best choice ^^
2012-01-08T19:12:08 <+Steffanx> It depends on your needs ofcourse
2012-01-08T19:12:36 < mansfeld> yes
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2012-01-08T20:07:20 < karlp> mansfeld: how much fun was it soldering those 48pin qfn packages?
2012-01-08T20:08:04 < karlp> 24Mhz should be plenty. what sort of things do you want much more power for?
2012-01-08T20:08:08 < mansfeld> karlp: ಠ_ಠ
2012-01-08T20:08:23 < mansfeld> not very fun
2012-01-08T20:10:11 < mansfeld> I'd had some success previously using a hot air station, but with smaller chips.. Out of the three chips I've soldered so far, two have worked fine, it seems
2012-01-08T20:10:59 < mansfeld> I don't mind soldering QFN by hand, with some good flux it's pretty easy. Heating the thermal pad is quite a challenge though
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2012-01-08T21:12:12 < mansfeld> if you've got a soldering iron with a fine enough tip, some really thick flux (not the liquid stuff), I find it's easier than tqfp
2012-01-08T21:12:43 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:45 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:45 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:46 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:47 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:49 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:51 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:55 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:57 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:12:59 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:13:01 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:21:28 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
2012-01-08T21:27:12 <+Steffanx> Whatever that may be
2012-01-08T21:27:53 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-01-08T21:28:01 < Laurenceb_> trolls trolling trolls
2012-01-08T21:30:29 <+Steffanx> Like always
2012-01-08T21:31:40  * jpa- trolls around Steffanx 
2012-01-08T21:31:58 <+Steffanx> Nice troll
2012-01-08T21:32:47 <+Steffanx> jpa- is an expert
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2012-01-08T22:08:30 <+Steffanx> YANKIE YANKY flyback
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2012-01-08T22:38:09 < Laurenceb_> lol
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2012-01-09T16:03:31 <+izua> hello.
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2012-01-09T16:06:18 < jpa-> izua <3
2012-01-09T16:06:25 < jpa-> we have missed you
2012-01-09T16:06:35 <+izua> d'aww
2012-01-09T16:13:40 <+izua> so what's up
2012-01-09T16:13:47 <+izua> what have you been doing lately
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2012-01-09T22:31:24 < joe9> //ws 18
2012-01-09T22:33:28 <+Steffanx> ?
2012-01-09T22:34:05 <+Steffanx> dekar there?
2012-01-09T22:38:40 < joe9> oops, sorry.
2012-01-09T22:38:51 < joe9> the system was unresponsive and I was typing something.
2012-01-09T22:42:32 <+Steffanx> :)
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2012-01-10T00:52:57 < dekar> meh, where's steffan?
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2012-01-10T16:36:26 < dekar> I feel like abusing the HTML5 joystick API to implement a USB driver in JS :)
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2012-01-10T16:57:29 < BrainDamage> if that becomes popular, you'll be in the top 10 of nerd hatelist in no time
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2012-01-10T18:47:52 < dekar> BrainDamage, they should just open USB in general :/
2012-01-10T18:48:08 < dekar> not my fault there aren't proper USB Apis
2012-01-10T18:48:48 < dekar> they define a protocol for communication, I make my stm32 speak "joystick" and use it - no harm done :)
2012-01-10T18:50:49 < dekar> we still have one of those IOIO things at the company, which abuse the Android Debug Bridge to bit bang stuff
2012-01-10T18:51:10 < dekar> ugly, maybe? but in the end it works
2012-01-10T18:52:49 < BrainDamage> I mean the whole usb javascript
2012-01-10T18:52:59 < BrainDamage> the next illogical step will be usb flash drivers
2012-01-10T18:53:09 < BrainDamage> I shiver at the tought
2012-01-10T18:53:32 < BrainDamage> someone will say "this way it's cross platform" and go away and not implement in a more sane way
2012-01-10T18:53:53 < BrainDamage> I mean, I'm ok with hacks when there's no proper alternative, but when there is, I get a little irritated
2012-01-10T18:54:15 < BrainDamage> and by hacks, I don't mean those done by singular individuals, that's fine
2012-01-10T18:54:55 < BrainDamage> it's when a commercial entity that pushes them on the market that basically substantially reduce your user experience that I don't like
2012-01-10T19:02:12 < jpa-> browser is the new OS, only this time there is a standard :)
2012-01-10T19:03:16 < BrainDamage> except that browsers lack most of the functionality an OS does, including task management, priorities, access control, etc
2012-01-10T19:03:33 < BrainDamage> in short, it's reinventing a shittier wheel inside another wheel
2012-01-10T19:03:58 < jpa-> chrome has task manager, browsers do have some security controls such as the "same origin policy"
2012-01-10T19:04:17 < BrainDamage> not quite as flexible as user access control tough
2012-01-10T19:04:26 < BrainDamage> also, where's task manager in chrome?
2012-01-10T19:04:36 < jpa-> under tools :P
2012-01-10T19:04:44 < jpa-> but yeah, i know it's not what you meant
2012-01-10T19:05:24 < jpa-> i doubt that the browser-hype will go that far; but there is a desperate need for a good cross-platform software development system
2012-01-10T19:06:05 < jpa-> QT etc. get close, but still the installation aspects are a trouble
2012-01-10T19:06:21 < BrainDamage> I do agree with that
2012-01-10T19:06:32 < BrainDamage> I disagree the browser idea
2012-01-10T19:06:38 < BrainDamage> at least, not with this level of integration
2012-01-10T19:08:25 < karlp> everyone kept insisting that it look right on their system, win32 vs gtk vso osx widgets through the years
2012-01-10T19:08:40 < karlp> with html, you just say, "it looks like the web" and you get away with it.
2012-01-10T19:08:42 < jpa-> a new user interface paradigm could be good; people seem to be more apt to learn how to use web pages vs. how to use applications
2012-01-10T19:08:57 < karlp> jpa-: I think that's a false beliefe though,
2012-01-10T19:09:04 < karlp> people are _forced_ to learn how to use web pages
2012-01-10T19:09:10 < jpa-> sure
2012-01-10T19:09:11 < karlp> because nothing's remotely standardized
2012-01-10T19:09:24 < karlp> it's like dvd menus
2012-01-10T19:12:13 < jpa-> it's somewhat of a dilemma; on one hand, web pages have very limited set of user interface operations, but on the other hand, the way to accomplish specific tasks varies a lot
2012-01-10T19:13:14 < jpa-> in regular applications, pressing ctrl-f is enough to search; on web pages you have to locate the search box
2012-01-10T19:14:59 < BrainDamage> which also doesn't work if the text is not in html form
2012-01-10T19:18:20 < karlp> thankfully, we're mostly away from those godawful days
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2012-01-10T19:26:58 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
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2012-01-10T20:44:11 < ratatata> wasup
2012-01-10T20:44:16 <+Steffanx> Tha sky
2012-01-10T21:21:23 < dekar> Steffanx, hey
2012-01-10T21:21:32 < dekar> you were asking me something earlier
2012-01-10T21:21:58 < dekar> also I suggested making my stm32 into a usb joystick and implementing a driver in JS running in my browser
2012-01-10T21:22:38 <+Steffanx> Nah, it wasn't really a question.. it's more the "i have to know" in me :P
2012-01-10T21:22:57 < dekar> tell me
2012-01-10T21:23:04 <+Steffanx> WHY izua isn't here :P
2012-01-10T21:23:17 < dekar> oh, lemme see
2012-01-10T21:23:21 < BrainDamage> he was earlier today / yesterday
2012-01-10T21:23:26 <+Steffanx> Whaat?
2012-01-10T21:23:30 < dekar> oh?
2012-01-10T21:23:36 <+Steffanx> Ah, he was, nevermind then
2012-01-10T21:23:42 <+Steffanx> Last seen  : Jan 09 19:20:08 2012 (1 day, 00:03:22 ago)
2012-01-10T21:24:02 < dekar> I quote: "eh, all kinds of crap. will be back on irc really soon!"
2012-01-10T21:24:12 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-10T21:24:32 < dekar> I love the NaCl stuff, running native .nexe inside chrome
2012-01-10T21:24:35 <+Steffanx> So the captain of our channel is still alive, that's a good thing.
2012-01-10T21:24:46 < BrainDamage> NaCl?
2012-01-10T21:24:47 < dekar> Qt is working on a port, and mono/unity3d have been ported
2012-01-10T21:24:53 < dekar> Native Client
2012-01-10T21:24:54 < BrainDamage> you're sparkling salt inside your pc?
2012-01-10T21:25:01 < dekar> yeah
2012-01-10T21:25:03 < BrainDamage> disappointment
2012-01-10T21:25:21 < dekar> you call those .nexe files like normal html websites
2012-01-10T21:25:27 < dekar> chrome just runs them sandboxed
2012-01-10T21:25:38 < dekar> dosbox has been ported
2012-01-10T21:25:42 <+Steffanx> hmm
2012-01-10T21:25:50 < BrainDamage> so it's basically VM inception?
2012-01-10T21:25:58 < dekar> not a VM
2012-01-10T21:26:02 < dekar> runs native
2012-01-10T21:26:03 <+Steffanx> sandbox?
2012-01-10T21:26:08 < BrainDamage> the sandbox
2012-01-10T21:26:13 < dekar> native, they just blocked some opcodes
2012-01-10T21:26:23 < dekar> modified GCC not to use those opcodes
2012-01-10T21:26:29 <+Steffanx> How save can something like that be?
2012-01-10T21:26:30 < BrainDamage> mmm
2012-01-10T21:26:33 < dekar> native x86 after all
2012-01-10T21:26:34 <+Steffanx> safe or wahtever
2012-01-10T21:26:35 < BrainDamage> sounds risky
2012-01-10T21:26:48 < dekar> it's safe imo, read their paper on it
2012-01-10T21:27:00 <+Steffanx> I'm not into x86
2012-01-10T21:27:04 < BrainDamage> I don't mean from a theorical point of view
2012-01-10T21:27:09 < BrainDamage> I mean from a practical
2012-01-10T21:27:15 < BrainDamage> forget something, and lololol
2012-01-10T21:27:29 < dekar> practical I think it's safe as well
2012-01-10T21:27:35 < dekar> is JS safe?
2012-01-10T21:27:44 <+Steffanx> Sometimes
2012-01-10T21:27:48 < dekar> :)
2012-01-10T21:28:04 < dekar> they have enabled it by default starting from chrome 14
2012-01-10T21:28:24 < dekar> Qt quick is also awesome, made some test apis and deployed them on my android phone
2012-01-10T21:28:26 <+Steffanx> Oh, it does run in a sandbox.. :)
2012-01-10T21:28:31 < dekar> *UI's
2012-01-10T21:28:39 <+Steffanx> chrome.exe --enable-nacl :(
2012-01-10T21:28:52 < dekar> Steffanx, it's on by default, I tried it
2012-01-10T21:29:04 < dekar> and yeah it is a sandbox, but a minimal one
2012-01-10T21:29:20 <+Steffanx> " On Mac and Linux, if you're using dev channel release 5.0.375.9 or 5.0.371.0, respectively (or an earlier version), also add --no-sandbox."
2012-01-10T21:29:24 <+Steffanx> I have 16.xxxxxx ..
2012-01-10T21:29:29 < dekar> they banned some opcodes and enforced some alignment, also made the application code read only in memory
2012-01-10T21:29:56 < dekar> there isn't much left of the sandbox once the application runs
2012-01-10T21:30:08 < dekar> the stuff left is their own POSIX api
2012-01-10T21:30:16 < dekar> they act as an OS
2012-01-10T21:30:22 <+Steffanx> How nice.. the url they link to is dead
2012-01-10T21:30:36 < dekar> just go to the chrome market
2012-01-10T21:30:40 < dekar> and play angrybots
2012-01-10T21:30:44 <+Steffanx> oh it's obsolete
2012-01-10T21:30:47 < dekar> it's a 3rd person 3d shooter
2012-01-10T21:30:53 < dekar> runs fine on my macbook
2012-01-10T21:30:54 < dekar> in chrome
2012-01-10T21:31:11 <+Steffanx> Whoa 55mb
2012-01-10T21:31:34 < dekar> what's 55mb?
2012-01-10T21:31:40 <+Steffanx> That game :)
2012-01-10T21:31:46 < dekar> orly?
2012-01-10T21:31:53 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-10T21:33:59 <+Steffanx> Let's play :)
2012-01-10T21:34:12 < dekar> wasd and mouse controls
2012-01-10T21:35:18 <+Steffanx> Runs pretty wel indeed
2012-01-10T21:35:29 <+Steffanx> The default game keys :)
2012-01-10T21:36:01 < dekar> you can press esc or click the thing at the upper right corner to enter some menu, you can make it go fullscreen there
2012-01-10T21:36:08 <+Steffanx> Still uses some cpu though
2012-01-10T21:36:13 <+Steffanx> *cpu power
2012-01-10T21:36:18 <+Steffanx> *time or whatever you call it
2012-01-10T21:36:19 < dekar> yeah, but it's mono after all
2012-01-10T21:36:22 < dekar> C#
2012-01-10T21:36:25 <+Steffanx> mono.. waow
2012-01-10T21:36:27 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-10T21:36:43 < dekar> garbage collector etc
2012-01-10T21:36:44 < dekar> :P
2012-01-10T21:37:22 <+Steffanx> AAAND lift off
2012-01-10T21:38:03 <+Steffanx> My macbook turned into a hovercraft :P
2012-01-10T21:38:09 < dekar> -.-
2012-01-10T21:38:19 < dekar> HTML5 has some joystick api
2012-01-10T21:38:29 < dekar> you can use it to implement usb drivers I think
2012-01-10T21:38:39 < dekar> for devices pretending to be joysticks
2012-01-10T21:38:59 < dekar> people told me HID was abuse, I wonder what they say about that :)
2012-01-10T21:39:06 <+Steffanx> What's the use of running something in a browser when you still have to 'install' something?
2012-01-10T21:39:29 < BrainDamage> quake live really puzzles me
2012-01-10T21:39:31 < dekar> install?
2012-01-10T21:39:36 < BrainDamage> you have to install the plugin
2012-01-10T21:39:39 < dekar> Steffanx, what did you install?
2012-01-10T21:39:41 <+Steffanx> I had to download/install that game
2012-01-10T21:39:44 < BrainDamage> you might as well make a standalone app
2012-01-10T21:40:00 < dekar> Steffanx, you don't, you can just run any .nexe file calling the URL
2012-01-10T21:40:09 < dekar> that's just the chrome webstore thing
2012-01-10T21:40:13 < dekar> cause people like stores
2012-01-10T21:40:15 < dekar> dunno why
2012-01-10T21:40:59 < dekar> Steffanx, http://gonativeclient.appspot.com/dev/demos/flocking_geese/
2012-01-10T21:41:48 <+Steffanx> Hmm, i still don't like the idea it runs that without permission
2012-01-10T21:42:03 <+Steffanx> oh nvm :p
2012-01-10T21:42:06 <+Steffanx> it was the js version
2012-01-10T21:43:35 < dekar> JS?
2012-01-10T21:43:43 < dekar> you can switch it as you like
2012-01-10T21:43:45 <+Steffanx> Yes, here it's JS ..
2012-01-10T21:43:53 <+Steffanx> when i switch it doesn't run
2012-01-10T21:43:54 < dekar> click the slider
2012-01-10T21:44:00 < dekar> orly?
2012-01-10T21:44:02 < dekar> does for me
2012-01-10T21:44:12 < dekar> any message?
2012-01-10T21:44:16 <+Steffanx> I guess i have do give permission somehow
2012-01-10T21:44:48 <+Steffanx> "Plugin Native Client is niet toegestaan" :)
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2012-01-10T21:46:31 <+Steffanx> Oh, it's disabled by default
2012-01-10T21:49:13 <+Steffanx> Now it works
2012-01-10T21:49:39 <+Steffanx> And it's faaaaast
2012-01-10T21:49:40 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-10T21:51:23 <+Steffanx> The problem with things like this is.. it's more a gadget than really useful
2012-01-10T21:55:43 < dekar> what do you mean?
2012-01-10T21:56:05 < dekar> I want to make websites in Qt rather than HTML5 and JS
2012-01-10T21:56:05 <+Steffanx> I mean.. it's chrome only, so it's a gadget
2012-01-10T21:56:17 < dekar> also Chrome OS :)
2012-01-10T21:56:37 < dekar> you mean like mac applications are only gadgets?
2012-01-10T21:57:24 < dekar> I hope other browsers implement it as well ofc
2012-01-10T21:57:53 <+Steffanx> You get the point dekar :P
2012-01-10T21:58:03 <+Steffanx> People don't want to use chrome when they have IE
2012-01-10T21:58:34 < dekar> why would one use IE?
2012-01-10T21:58:42 < dekar> maybe IE with Chrometab
2012-01-10T21:58:45 <+Steffanx> Ask my mother
2012-01-10T21:58:45 < dekar> :D
2012-01-10T21:58:54 <+Steffanx> My father uses Firefox :)
2012-01-10T21:59:10 <+Steffanx> How's your lenovo doing btw?
2012-01-10T21:59:24 < dekar> Well I rather have the chrome sandbox than java applets without any kind of sandbox
2012-01-10T21:59:48 < dekar> besides people also dislike installing java
2012-01-10T21:59:56 <+Steffanx> me too
2012-01-10T22:00:10 < dekar> that's why our first flexBox was using activeX, is activeX better?
2012-01-10T22:00:17 <+Steffanx> Help :P
2012-01-10T22:00:30 < dekar> so I hope for a proper api for native code
2012-01-10T22:00:36 <+Steffanx> I had to write a camera interface in .net using an ActiveX ..
2012-01-10T22:00:46 < dekar> activeX and Java running native code are _dangerous_
2012-01-10T22:00:52 <+Steffanx> *and an ActiveX
2012-01-10T22:00:54 <+Steffanx> Now it bugs and we have no idea why
2012-01-10T22:01:23 < dekar> I have modified activeX to use my driver
2012-01-10T22:01:29 < dekar> took me a day or two
2012-01-10T22:01:47 < dekar> didn't have to change much though
2012-01-10T22:01:51 <+Steffanx> How do you modify an activex?!
2012-01-10T22:02:05 < dekar> the applet we use for the flexBox one
2012-01-10T22:02:08 < dekar> it's C#
2012-01-10T22:02:17 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-10T22:02:22 < dekar> I just made it call my driver instead of the FTDI one
2012-01-10T22:02:38 < dekar> but in the end we dropped it in favor of java
2012-01-10T22:02:46 < dekar> I also prefer java over activeX
2012-01-10T22:02:58 < dekar> still both technologies have _no sandbox at all_!
2012-01-10T22:03:00 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-10T22:03:15 < dekar> it's like running a normal exe locally
2012-01-10T22:03:45 < dekar> you get that tiny message telling you you're about to run a signed applet, once you press okay you run code natively
2012-01-10T22:03:54 <+Steffanx> Don't you like it?
2012-01-10T22:04:02 < dekar> that's dangerous imo
2012-01-10T22:04:05 <+Steffanx> And it doesn't work in non-IE browsers at all :)
2012-01-10T22:04:15 < dekar> no I mean java
2012-01-10T22:04:22 < dekar> well activeX as well
2012-01-10T22:04:30 < dekar> both show just one message asking whether you want to run it
2012-01-10T22:04:49 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-10T22:05:02 < dekar> I think it's wrong how signed java applets disable the sandbox
2012-01-10T22:05:07 <+Steffanx> I love it when a Java Applet hangs my browser :)
2012-01-10T22:05:17 < dekar> I mean my applet loads my driver including libusb/hidapi
2012-01-10T22:05:41 <+Steffanx> ActiveX is nice :)
2012-01-10T22:05:45 < dekar> most users won't realize what that okay button means
2012-01-10T22:06:29 < dekar> I rather want NaCl, they just should add some API to interface hardware like usb, rs232 etc
2012-01-10T22:07:27 <+Steffanx> True, but I want support for it in Firefox, IE and Opera first :)
2012-01-10T22:08:51 < dekar> I want them to either implement that or die :)
2012-01-10T22:09:05 < dekar> if they don't then they're blocking progression
2012-01-10T22:09:08 < dekar> like IE did
2012-01-10T22:09:09 <+Steffanx> LOL
2012-01-10T22:09:26 <+Steffanx> What about sockets etc. I guess that's not supported?
2012-01-10T22:09:40 < dekar> it has the same permissions as JS
2012-01-10T22:09:46 <+Steffanx> Hmm
2012-01-10T22:09:51 < dekar> aren't there HTML5 web sockets?
2012-01-10T22:09:53 <+Steffanx> JS has websockets :)
2012-01-10T22:09:56 < dekar> ya
2012-01-10T22:10:00 <+Steffanx> At least, some browsers have
2012-01-10T22:10:16 < dekar> I think they should add permission management for that
2012-01-10T22:10:21 < dekar> like the android permissions
2012-01-10T22:10:28 <+Steffanx> I'm not 'into' android
2012-01-10T22:10:38 < Tom_itx> ok, this looks like an intelligent bunch.. save for a couple
2012-01-10T22:10:42 < Tom_itx> what are the TRACE pins on the STM32F4 for? I noticed the mems device uses one for SS on the SPI
2012-01-10T22:10:43 < dekar> android apps show you their requested permissions on install
2012-01-10T22:11:01 < dekar> mems device?
2012-01-10T22:11:09 < Tom_itx> yes
2012-01-10T22:11:11 < BrainDamage> dekar: after installing 20 or so apps, none bothers reading them anymore
2012-01-10T22:11:11 < Tom_itx> accelerometer
2012-01-10T22:11:13 <+Steffanx> gyro/accelerometer
2012-01-10T22:11:31 < dekar> I want an stm32f4 as well :/
2012-01-10T22:11:35 <+Steffanx> Get one dekar
2012-01-10T22:11:37 < BrainDamage> especically since most requrie a lot of needless permissions "just in case"
2012-01-10T22:11:42 < dekar> ya will
2012-01-10T22:11:43 <+Steffanx> watterott.de dekar :P
2012-01-10T22:11:44 < Tom_itx> would i get into trouble if i used PE4 for SS?
2012-01-10T22:11:54 <+Steffanx> Probably not
2012-01-10T22:12:04 <+Steffanx> wrong website
2012-01-10T22:12:10 <+Steffanx> it's .com
2012-01-10T22:12:46 < dekar> Steffanx, our new EE guy is so handy, I told him to make my devboard like our final HW so he soldered an 12mhz crystal and then replaced my 128kbyte flash stm32f1 with the 512kbyte version we'll use
2012-01-10T22:13:21 <+Steffanx> uh?
2012-01-10T22:13:25 -!- phantoxe [~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-10T22:13:26 < dekar> he also brought an smd soldering station and one of those hot air soldering irons
2012-01-10T22:13:34 < dekar> and a ton of new stuff to play with
2012-01-10T22:13:47 < BrainDamage> doesn't sounds like an idiotic guy
2012-01-10T22:14:02 < Tom_itx> flyback has a hot air station
2012-01-10T22:14:13 <+Steffanx> The pin CAN be used as a debugging function i think Tom_itx
2012-01-10T22:14:29 < BrainDamage> Tom_itx: attached to the fingers? <rimshot>
2012-01-10T22:14:48 <+Steffanx> "Embedded Trace Macrocell"
2012-01-10T22:15:04 < Tom_itx> yeah that sorta sounded like jtag but not
2012-01-10T22:15:43 <+Steffanx> It's the alternate function the pin, so you can use it
2012-01-10T22:15:59 <+Steffanx> of that pin
2012-01-10T22:16:06 <+Steffanx> Aah, my English sucks today
2012-01-10T22:16:14 < Tom_itx> i figured i'd go ahead and use SPI1 same as the mems and just use a different SS
2012-01-10T22:16:46 < Tom_itx> all 3 of those can be mapped to alternate pins as well
2012-01-10T22:16:52 < Tom_itx> all 3 spi that is
2012-01-10T22:16:57 <+Steffanx> Where's that board you make for btw?
2012-01-10T22:17:08 < Tom_itx> where's it for?
2012-01-10T22:17:36 < Tom_itx> somebody wanted me to make a reprap board to plug on to the discovery
2012-01-10T22:17:37 <+Steffanx> Yes, just as add-on for the stm32f4 discovery or ..
2012-01-10T22:17:40 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-10T22:18:06 <+Steffanx> With ethernet
2012-01-10T22:18:08 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-10T22:18:20 < Tom_itx> they wanna use dma for the step stuff on the steppers but aren't that forthcoming on pinouts for me
2012-01-10T22:18:24 < Tom_itx> yeah ethernet
2012-01-10T22:18:27 < Tom_itx> not sure why
2012-01-10T22:18:43 < Tom_itx> some of their 'wish list' was kinda silly
2012-01-10T22:18:56 <+Steffanx> It needs bluetooth
2012-01-10T22:19:00 < Tom_itx> for an imbedded controller anyway
2012-01-10T22:19:09 < Tom_itx> with a handheld remote?
2012-01-10T22:19:15 <+Steffanx> pc
2012-01-10T22:19:35 <+Steffanx> or an phone
2012-01-10T22:19:37 <+Steffanx> *a
2012-01-10T22:20:01 < dekar> I want it to have a 10G mac, that would be handy :)
2012-01-10T22:20:35 <+Steffanx> You and you 10G ethernet
2012-01-10T22:21:24 < dekar> haha jkl
2012-01-10T22:21:26 < dekar> *jk
2012-01-10T22:22:05 < dekar> I did actually hook up the stm32 to the SFP(+) RX and TX lines
2012-01-10T22:22:07 <+Steffanx> *your
2012-01-10T22:22:10 < dekar> will see how well that works
2012-01-10T22:25:23 < Tom_itx> what trace length can you get away with on 1G?
2012-01-10T22:25:34 < Tom_itx> or 100M for that matter
2012-01-10T22:27:07 < Tom_itx> mmm google acquires 200+ IBM patents
2012-01-10T22:27:12 < Tom_itx> wtf are they gonna do with em?
2012-01-10T22:27:31 <+Steffanx> Nothing, patents are useless
2012-01-10T22:27:36 <+Steffanx> Burn them!
2012-01-10T22:28:07 < Tom_itx> semantic social network
2012-01-10T22:28:08 < jpa-> Tom_itx: trace length is not the critical thing, matching them and the impedances is
2012-01-10T22:28:29 < Tom_itx> yeah i figured they had to be the same length
2012-01-10T22:28:48 <+Steffanx> I love ethernet.. 100mbit is supposed to work with a cable length < 100m
2012-01-10T22:28:59 <+Steffanx> but it worked with 300m very well for me :)
2012-01-10T22:29:15 <+Steffanx> Someone gave me 100m cable, but actually it was 300m :)
2012-01-10T22:29:50 < Tom_itx> did you wrap it around your room?
2012-01-10T22:30:09 < jpa-> did you steal neighbour's internet?
2012-01-10T22:30:12 <+Steffanx> My room is too small for that
2012-01-10T22:30:19 < dekar> Tom_itx, dunno, we have this new EE guy doing all that stuff for me, he has this fancy app called altium :)
2012-01-10T22:30:27 <+Steffanx> Expensive shit
2012-01-10T22:30:42 < Tom_itx> dekar, i could use pads which has impdance matching but i hate using it
2012-01-10T22:31:05 < dekar> our new pcb has 8 layers I think
2012-01-10T22:31:09 <+Steffanx> EAGLE has at least trace length matching now
2012-01-10T22:31:24 < Tom_itx> yeah but i'm not using the new version
2012-01-10T22:31:29 <+Steffanx> Why not?
2012-01-10T22:31:37 <+Steffanx> Can't upgrade for cheap/free?
2012-01-10T22:31:39 < Tom_itx> didn't feel like buying another license
2012-01-10T22:32:04 < dekar> eagle is uncommercial only iirc, unless you get a license
2012-01-10T22:32:10 < Tom_itx> and i wasn't impressed with 5
2012-01-10T22:32:21 < Tom_itx> dekar, right
2012-01-10T22:32:53 < dekar> I guess now that we have an altium license I will have that EE guy teach me EE :)
2012-01-10T22:33:09 < dekar> no time atm though, maybe in a few months
2012-01-10T22:33:23 <+Steffanx> You have enough time
2012-01-10T22:33:33 < dekar> nope
2012-01-10T22:33:41 < Tom_itx> you're here. you must
2012-01-10T22:33:56 < dekar> lol he's not working right now, nor am I
2012-01-10T22:33:57 <+Steffanx> Tom_itx knows how it works
2012-01-10T22:34:05 < dekar> so now is not the time to do that
2012-01-10T22:34:26 <+Steffanx> dekar, you are happy when you see this? http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120110-213416.png
2012-01-10T22:34:42 < dekar> I made a deal with him, I'll teach him software and he'll teach me EE :)
2012-01-10T22:34:49 <+Steffanx> or do you prefer: http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120110-213442.png
2012-01-10T22:34:57 < dekar> Steffanx, go away!!
2012-01-10T22:35:28 <+Steffanx> Nah, only 0,84% is 6.0 :p
2012-01-10T22:35:31 <+Steffanx> So that's a good thing
2012-01-10T22:36:02 < dekar> we'll probably have some custom tegra2 based board, for that vending machine we plan on selling
2012-01-10T22:36:23 < dekar> dunno why, but the daughter company designing that thing demands a dualcore
2012-01-10T22:36:26 <+Steffanx>  vending machine  ?!
2012-01-10T22:36:34 < dekar> didn't I tell you
2012-01-10T22:36:36 <+Steffanx> Tegra2 ?!
2012-01-10T22:36:37 < dekar> gearOmat?
2012-01-10T22:36:52 < dekar> http://gearomat.com/
2012-01-10T22:37:57 <+Steffanx> At least the links aren't broken
2012-01-10T22:38:02 <+Steffanx> http://www.flexoptix.net/en/transceiver/flexlabs.html ..
2012-01-10T22:38:42 <+Steffanx> but really when it nees a dualcore something?
2012-01-10T22:39:09 <+Steffanx> *why
2012-01-10T22:39:52 < dekar> Steffanx, dunno - we had 2 guys working on it for a year, from what I understand they haven't reached anything so far
2012-01-10T22:40:12 < dekar> now that EE guy joined and they asked him to make a custom Tegra2 based board for them
2012-01-10T22:40:23 <+Steffanx> but really isn't that a little over powered?
2012-01-10T22:40:30 < dekar> that's what I said
2012-01-10T22:40:42 < dekar> I was like "raspberry pi would be enough!"
2012-01-10T22:40:50 < dekar> they don't seem to care
2012-01-10T22:40:54 <+Steffanx> Or does it al kind of special stuff?
2012-01-10T22:41:00 <+Steffanx> *does it do
2012-01-10T22:41:02 < dekar> also they want to use android as an OS for that vending machine
2012-01-10T22:41:09 < dekar> no idea why you'd use android
2012-01-10T22:41:25 <+Steffanx> Java :P
2012-01-10T22:41:34 < dekar> but they told me it'd important to sell it as "the worlds biggest android device!"
2012-01-10T22:41:41 < dekar> you can have java without android
2012-01-10T22:41:59 < dekar> I'd go for the raspberry pi board and use Qt for Linux embedded
2012-01-10T22:42:13 <+Steffanx> Yes, but android is tha bomb
2012-01-10T22:42:43 < dekar> also I told them to use Qt Quick
2012-01-10T22:43:01 <+Steffanx> Why it needs Qt?
2012-01-10T22:43:04 < dekar> but they hate Qt
2012-01-10T22:43:12 < dekar> Qt Quick is uber fancy
2012-01-10T22:43:13 <+Steffanx> I don't see a GUI
2012-01-10T22:43:19 < dekar> it's made for neat guis
2012-01-10T22:43:27 < dekar> oh, it's a touchscreen vending machine
2012-01-10T22:43:49 <+Steffanx> http://gearomat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IMG_21191.jpg screen?
2012-01-10T22:44:13 < dekar> http://gearomat.com/2011/03/img_0689-jpg/
2012-01-10T22:44:48 < dekar> see it on my pic?
2012-01-10T22:45:02 <+Steffanx> A very small one
2012-01-10T22:45:02 < dekar> that's some mock up version running on win7 btw
2012-01-10T22:45:20 <+Steffanx> It's just a vending machine with a custom user interface?
2012-01-10T22:45:44 < dekar> below that there's an vein scanner scanning your hand for authentification
2012-01-10T22:46:03 < dekar> idk, it's weird shit - I don't get it myself
2012-01-10T22:46:26 <+Steffanx> At least the guys hear isn't orange.. I guess he's a supporter of the dutch national soccer team
2012-01-10T22:46:42 <+Steffanx>  vein scanner :D
2012-01-10T22:47:19 < dekar> weird shit -.-
2012-01-10T22:47:42 < dekar> I have an android app that makes it give me stuff for free :)
2012-01-10T22:47:53 < dekar> but I still don't see us selling that thing
2012-01-10T22:47:54 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-10T22:48:22 < dekar> I keep asking my boss every other day whether they're bankrupt already
2012-01-10T22:49:10 <+Steffanx> Crisis :)
2012-01-10T22:49:47 <+Steffanx> That would be a big bummer for you.. no free stuff anymore
2012-01-10T22:49:58 < dekar> but since they're split off I don't care too much, flexOptix won't get bankrupt once gearOmat does
2012-01-10T22:50:14 < dekar> they steal my stuff as well :/
2012-01-10T22:50:53 <+Steffanx> Haha
2012-01-10T22:50:56 < dekar> but yeah they buy tons of stuff they then decide didn't want
2012-01-10T22:51:10 <+Steffanx> Like pandaboards
2012-01-10T22:51:26 < dekar> Steffanx, took me half a day to get my usb->serial adapter back
2012-01-10T22:51:39 <+Steffanx> The company i work for also isn't really into linux
2012-01-10T22:51:59 <+Steffanx> Now there's a new development.. which involves linux
2012-01-10T22:52:13 <+Steffanx> They think everything that runs linux can run everything
2012-01-10T22:52:18 < dekar> I I was so desperate that I tried to flash an stm32 using my bus pirate in transparent rs232 mode
2012-01-10T22:52:34 <+Steffanx> They don't think about the cross compiling part etc.
2012-01-10T22:52:45 < dekar> Steffanx, you can make it build stuff natively
2012-01-10T22:52:52 < dekar> just add enough swap
2012-01-10T22:52:53 < dekar> and time
2012-01-10T22:52:53 < dekar> XD
2012-01-10T22:53:05 < dekar> I tried that on my mips router once
2012-01-10T22:53:08 < dekar> 32mb ram
2012-01-10T22:53:11 < dekar> added 1gb swap
2012-01-10T22:53:21 < dekar> at some point it overheated and rebooted -.-"
2012-01-10T22:53:25 < dekar> after like an hour
2012-01-10T22:53:26 < dekar> XD
2012-01-10T22:53:31 <+Steffanx> True, but they don't really think about the ARM <> x86 stuff etc.
2012-01-10T22:53:39 < dekar> same here
2012-01-10T22:53:55 < dekar> they were like "let's install ubuntu on the panda board and use flash!"
2012-01-10T22:54:04 < dekar> then I showed them they were wrong
2012-01-10T22:54:08 < dekar> so I got a free panda board
2012-01-10T22:54:29 < dekar> I am the linux guy at our company
2012-01-10T22:54:52 <+Steffanx> I guess i'm that too, and i'm not that into linux at all
2012-01-10T22:54:52 < dekar> we lately got a new admin as well
2012-01-10T22:54:54 < dekar> he hates linux
2012-01-10T22:55:00 < dekar> wants windows server everywhere
2012-01-10T22:55:49 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-10T22:55:51 < dekar> he bought those two bigass servers (dual quad core, 64gb ram - 12x 450gb weird server disks)
2012-01-10T22:55:58 < dekar> and wanted to install some windows on them
2012-01-10T22:56:02 < dekar> my boss stopped him
2012-01-10T22:56:07 < dekar> XD
2012-01-10T22:56:33 < dekar> now we're outsource setting them up since I cbf and he hates linux
2012-01-10T22:57:28 <+Steffanx> Sounds like a good solution
2012-01-10T22:57:57 < dekar> now some swiss company will install some redhat KVM setup iirc
2012-01-10T22:59:19 < dekar> Steffanx, do you know KSM?
2012-01-10T22:59:26 < dekar> kernel samepage merging
2012-01-10T22:59:37 < dekar> it deduplicates ram
2012-01-10T23:00:01 <+Steffanx> No, never heard about it
2012-01-10T23:00:01 < dekar> redhat says you could run 50 winXP VMs on a single 16gb ram server
2012-01-10T23:00:23 < dekar> since all those windows kernels and drivers don't need any ram anymore
2012-01-10T23:00:31 < dekar> cause they're same for every single VM
2012-01-10T23:00:38 <+Steffanx> 16/50 = 0.32… yes that's doable :P
2012-01-10T23:01:14 < dekar> well it makes windows consume 0mb ram basically
2012-01-10T23:01:25 < dekar> so it's just the applications you run
2012-01-10T23:02:17 <+Steffanx> I still wonder why you need 50 VM's with xp  on a single server
2012-01-10T23:02:59 < dekar> dunno, they were just benchmarking I guess
2012-01-10T23:03:12 < dekar> could use any OS, as long as you use the same OS for every VM
2012-01-10T23:03:23 < dekar> it's some linux kernel module
2012-01-10T23:03:34 < dekar> it periodically scans the ram and merges all duplicate pages
2012-01-10T23:04:57 < dekar> the implementation is kinda ugly imo, but the result is awesome
2012-01-10T23:05:32 <+Steffanx> I like the idea too
2012-01-10T23:07:44 < dekar> someone ported it to android so the kernel can deduplicate all those instances of the java VM
2012-01-10T23:07:56 <+Steffanx> So it also knows when something changes so it doesn't change for all vm's?
2012-01-10T23:08:17 < dekar> it sets some flag "copy on write"
2012-01-10T23:08:36 <+Steffanx> I mean .. it keeps track of all memory and doesn't modify it when other vm's use the same page?
2012-01-10T23:08:41 <+Steffanx> Ah yes
2012-01-10T23:10:16 <+Steffanx> I guess there's a small performance penalty too?
2012-01-10T23:10:57 <+Steffanx> "Redhat claims that tests with KSM were able to achieve 600 vms on a host with 48 cores and 256 GB RAM."  :D
2012-01-10T23:11:16 < jpa-> copy on write is already present on linux, anyway
2012-01-10T23:11:33 <+Steffanx> Oh :D
2012-01-10T23:11:36 < dekar> yeah it is
2012-01-10T23:11:51 <+Steffanx> Blame me for not being an IT guy
2012-01-10T23:12:06 < jpa-> just that normally if the pages are not specifically mmap'ed from the same source, they never get merged :)
2012-01-10T23:12:14 < dekar> there is a pretty big performance penalty for constantly scanning the memory for duplicates though
2012-01-10T23:12:21 <+Steffanx> I actually read about it once.. i think
2012-01-10T23:12:32 < dekar> the default settings generate 10% load on one core (on average) from what I read
2012-01-10T23:13:30 < dekar> http://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2009/ols2009-pages-19-28.pdf
2012-01-10T23:13:47 < dekar> So it is ideal to always
2012-01-10T23:13:47 < dekar> keep KSM enabled with parameters like sleep = 5000
2012-01-10T23:13:47 < dekar> pages_to_scan = 60, so that around 12000 virtual pages
2012-01-10T23:13:47 < dekar> are scanned each second, allowing a max memory merging rate of 46.87MB/sec
2012-01-10T23:14:15 < dekar>  With this setting the KVM kernel thread should
2012-01-10T23:14:16 < dekar> use around 10% of one CPU core
2012-01-10T23:15:23 < dekar> we could port it to the stm32, that would allow to malloc a bazillion zeros :D
2012-01-10T23:16:10 < dekar> though we'd need to get an mmu first
2012-01-10T23:16:19 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-10T23:18:23 -!- robint91 [~robint91@d54C2EB7F.access.telenet.be] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-10T23:18:36 < robint91> he is
2012-01-10T23:18:37 < robint91> hi all
2012-01-10T23:18:45 < robint91> flyback, !
2012-01-10T23:18:54 <+Steffanx> Yes, flyback is here :0
2012-01-10T23:19:40 < robint91> Steffanx, are you voiced?
2012-01-10T23:19:43 < robint91> or op
2012-01-10T23:19:47 <+Steffanx> Voiced
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2012-01-10T23:20:23 < jpa-> he is undercovercop
2012-01-10T23:20:27 <+Steffanx> Thanks to our channel captain Izua
2012-01-10T23:20:39 <+Steffanx> I wish jpa-
2012-01-10T23:21:13 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 30 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 28 normal]
2012-01-10T23:21:49 < dekar> Steffanx, that's what all undercover FBI agents say
2012-01-10T23:22:08 <+Steffanx> Hmm, how do you know if a undercover FBI Agents talks to you?
2012-01-10T23:22:19 <+Steffanx> *an
2012-01-10T23:23:19 < jpa-> their breath smells
2012-01-10T23:23:20 < dekar> well, if he pretends to be an underage girl that would be a sign
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2012-01-10T23:24:35 < dekar> The internet, a place where men are men, women are men and children are fib agents! :)
2012-01-10T23:25:33 < dekar> *fbi
2012-01-10T23:33:32 < dekar> Steffanx, can you recommend any screen recorder for osx?
2012-01-10T23:33:40 < dekar> the quicktime one lags badly on lion
--- Day changed Wed Jan 11 2012
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2012-01-11T00:16:02 <+Steffanx> No dekar
2012-01-11T00:16:09 <+Steffanx> I had a nice one, but i don't remember which one
2012-01-11T00:16:20 <+Steffanx> Jing is ok, but not free
2012-01-11T00:21:25 <+Steffanx> Since when you use lion btw?
2012-01-11T00:21:34 <+Steffanx> aNah, i'm off
2012-01-11T00:22:56 < karlp> does gdb with the f4 board with texane current master work for anyone else?
2012-01-11T00:23:15 < karlp> it seems to hang writing the data section, but finishes, getting only 36b/sec,
2012-01-11T00:23:19 < karlp> but I can't then continue
2012-01-11T00:23:25 < karlp> using the flash util works ok, just not gdb
2012-01-11T00:24:23 <+Steffanx> No f4 board for me
2012-01-11T00:24:57 <+Steffanx> Time to make your branch master? :)
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2012-01-11T00:25:27 < karlp> no, just trying to get my changes finally brought up todate again with some other stuff and get it merged in.
2012-01-11T00:25:44 < karlp> and make sure I'm in a sane place to get new merges again.
2012-01-11T00:25:46 < karlp> I've been a bit behind
2012-01-11T00:26:23 <+Steffanx> Yes, but we need a STABLE branch.. one that actually works
2012-01-11T00:27:57 < karlp> well, I'd been keeping mine like that,
2012-01-11T00:28:05 < karlp> I've only just added the f4 to my test setup though
2012-01-11T00:28:09 < karlp> I'd not been using it at all before.
2012-01-11T00:28:40 < karlp> I still intend to keep my master a stable working branch :)
2012-01-11T00:31:34 -!- phantone is now known as phantoxe
2012-01-11T00:40:31 < karlp> fredowski has not provided an email address... excellent.
2012-01-11T00:41:23 <+Steffanx> Who ever that may be
2012-01-11T00:41:43 < karlp> someone else trying to improve the osx driver for stlinkv1
2012-01-11T00:42:01 < karlp> but I can't message him, or anything else so far...
2012-01-11T00:43:06 < karlp> he's got some "packagemaker" thinkg that doesn't need root or something.
2012-01-11T00:44:05 <+Steffanx> It still does, but you have to enter the password in a special window
2012-01-11T00:44:21 <+Steffanx> At least.. I'm sure it still needs root
2012-01-11T00:50:38 < karlp> geh, I did this merge backwards or something
2012-01-11T00:50:43 < karlp> no wonder it was so easy :|
2012-01-11T00:50:45 <+Steffanx> hehe
2012-01-11T00:50:53 <+Steffanx> git is nice isnt it?
2012-01-11T00:50:55 < karlp> stupid shit.
2012-01-11T00:50:57 < karlp> sometimes
2012-01-11T00:51:00 < karlp> sometimes no.
2012-01-11T00:51:03 <+Steffanx> Anyway, good night
2012-01-11T00:51:05 < karlp> later
2012-01-11T00:51:12 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2012-01-11T00:51:24 <+Steffanx> Don't forget sparkfun freeday tomorrow :P
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2012-01-11T00:59:17 < karlp> uhh, that was painful last year
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2012-01-11T01:21:11 < karlp> oh, bleh,
2012-01-11T01:21:21 < karlp> no, _I_ had the two branches the wrong way around in the git window.
2012-01-11T01:21:24 < karlp> it was right before
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2012-01-11T02:37:36 < karlp> ok, lots of diffing and testing both flash and gdb loads, on three boards, and there's no substantial difference between mine and current texane master
2012-01-11T02:37:43 < karlp> f4 is dodgy though,
2012-01-11T02:38:19 < karlp> you need to press reset manually while it's part way through the programming
2012-01-11T02:38:27 < karlp> and again after "continue" in gdb
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2012-01-11T13:45:11 <+izua> dekar: o/
2012-01-11T13:45:15 <+izua> Stef
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2012-01-11T13:48:22 < karlp> izua: steffanx has been pining after you...
2012-01-11T13:48:55 <+izua> ah, so i've heard
2012-01-11T13:49:03 <+izua> but i had to take an internet break
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2012-01-11T16:40:29  * hackkitten stares at her STM32F4 kit gathering dust
2012-01-11T16:41:29 < _Lucretia_> hackkitten: I just got an Ada prog working on one :D
2012-01-11T16:42:37 < hackkitten> yay :D
2012-01-11T16:42:48  * hackkitten still needs to pick a bloody toolchain and an enclosure for her kit
2012-01-11T16:43:26 < _Lucretia_> well, I could point you to mine :D
2012-01-11T16:43:30 < _Lucretia_> wooden box?
2012-01-11T16:44:53 < hackkitten> maybe :3
2012-01-11T16:45:05 < hackkitten> not adding any daughterboards yet, so something basic will do
2012-01-11T16:45:13 < hackkitten> might look around town what they got here
2012-01-11T16:49:56 < BrainDamage> why do you need a box?
2012-01-11T16:50:04  * hackkitten zaps about~
2012-01-11T16:50:12 < _Lucretia_> so she doesn't electrocute her ickle paws
2012-01-11T16:50:14 < hackkitten> keeping it from getting static-ified?
2012-01-11T16:50:22 < hackkitten> :3
2012-01-11T16:50:39 < Laurenceb> iFried
2012-01-11T16:50:53 < BrainDamage> I have dev boards and bunch of electronics lying around, I've found very few things are static sensitive
2012-01-11T16:51:00 < hackkitten> SadKittehWithFriedKit
2012-01-11T16:51:05 < Laurenceb> ive fried a few opamps
2012-01-11T16:51:07 < BrainDamage> I even throw my stm dev boards on my bed
2012-01-11T16:51:11 < hackkitten> heh
2012-01-11T16:51:16 < Laurenceb> kinky
2012-01-11T16:51:21 < BrainDamage> I fried a 30$ laser diode once
2012-01-11T16:51:34  * hackkitten is the ESD wrist strapt type
2012-01-11T16:51:37 < hackkitten> ouch
2012-01-11T16:52:00 < Laurenceb> i once picked up a pic16f without grounding myslef to the workbench
2012-01-11T16:52:07 < Laurenceb> ~1cm spark through the pic
2012-01-11T16:52:11 < Laurenceb> it worked fine
2012-01-11T16:54:28 < karlp> last time I fried something was a mosfet back in uni.
2012-01-11T16:54:32 < karlp> well, fried with static.
2012-01-11T16:55:00 < Laurenceb> i fried the adc on an stm32
2012-01-11T16:55:04 < karlp> yeah?
2012-01-11T16:55:10 < Laurenceb> but not reading the datasheet
2012-01-11T16:55:15 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@46.115.1.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-01-11T16:55:16 < karlp> what's the tip?
2012-01-11T16:55:22 < Laurenceb> and supplying 3.3v to digital rail
2012-01-11T16:55:26 < Laurenceb> and 0 to adc
2012-01-11T16:55:47 < Laurenceb> it now seems to be powering parasitically off a gpio clk line
2012-01-11T16:56:14 < karlp> oh, grounded the avcc?
2012-01-11T16:56:24 < Laurenceb> not exactly
2012-01-11T16:56:35 < Laurenceb> switchable rails, the analogue one got turned off
2012-01-11T16:57:05 < Laurenceb> stm32 kept on running, but when i tried to reset it wouldnt boot up
2012-01-11T16:57:41 < Laurenceb> now ive fixed it the adc isnt taking power from the analogue pin
2012-01-11T16:57:59 < Laurenceb> it seems to be running off a gpio somewhere
2012-01-11T16:58:29 < Laurenceb> so you something to avoid :P
2012-01-11T16:58:33 < Laurenceb> *yes
2012-01-11T16:59:47 < BrainDamage> why not replacing the chip more simply?
2012-01-11T16:59:57 < Laurenceb> depending how i configure gpio on portb the adc wont work or screws up the results
2012-01-11T16:59:57 < BrainDamage> it's not like they are expensive
2012-01-11T17:00:13 < Laurenceb> yeah - it took me a while to diagnose the problem
2012-01-11T17:00:31 < Laurenceb> i though it was firmware related - just thought this info would be useful :P
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2012-01-11T17:57:02 < Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/abp9S.png
2012-01-11T17:57:18 < Laurenceb> finished my stm32 board :P
2012-01-11T17:59:25  * Laurenceb senses everyone is on sparkfun
2012-01-11T17:59:40 < jpa-> why is the "groundplane" divided in pieces?
2012-01-11T17:59:59 < jpa-> e.g. near "Diff press"
2012-01-11T18:00:40 < Laurenceb> analogue and digital
2012-01-11T18:01:21 < jpa-> ah, but that is not a good idea
2012-01-11T18:01:44 < jpa-> http://www.hottconsultants.com/techtips/split-gnd-plane.html
2012-01-11T18:03:38 < hackkitten> :)
2012-01-11T18:05:50 < Laurenceb> but signal traces dont cross
2012-01-11T18:13:15 < jpa-> ok then :)
2012-01-11T18:13:23 < jpa-> wasn't obvious from seeing just one layer
2012-01-11T18:16:05 < karlp> oh yeah, sparkfun was today
2012-01-11T18:16:50 < Laurenceb> its not worth it
2012-01-11T18:17:01 < Laurenceb> unless you want to be a human captcha cracker
2012-01-11T18:17:09 < Laurenceb> ive tried about 200 times
2012-01-11T18:17:11 < Laurenceb> no luck
2012-01-11T18:55:24 < Thorn> I haven't even started my stm32 board yet :(
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2012-01-11T19:39:30 < karlp> I have a feeeling I've tried more than 200 now.
2012-01-11T19:39:33 < karlp> but I did take a break :)
2012-01-11T19:40:40 <+Steffanx> ReCaptcha sucks
2012-01-11T19:40:51 < karlp> woo!
2012-01-11T19:40:55 < karlp> I win!
2012-01-11T19:41:06 <+Steffanx> No I did..
2012-01-11T19:41:09 <+Steffanx> No, not really
2012-01-11T19:41:42 <+Steffanx> but the black/white spot whatever you call it words are !@#$%^ hard to read
2012-01-11T19:42:32 < karlp> oh yeah, those sucked
2012-01-11T19:42:34 < hackkitten> heh, recaptcha isn't that hard
2012-01-11T19:42:40 < hackkitten> there are others which are downright impossible
2012-01-11T19:42:49 < karlp> it also seems to give a lot more leway ont he black/white spot ones
2012-01-11T19:42:56 < hackkitten> even came across a few captcha types which I failed on even after a dozen tries
2012-01-11T19:43:02  * hackkitten might not be human @_@
2012-01-11T19:43:12 < karlp> also, thank you Laurenceb for reminding me, I'd forgotten about it!
2012-01-11T19:43:22 <+Steffanx> Yes, ReCaptcha is too difficualt hackkitten ..
2012-01-11T19:45:28 < hackkitten> not for me :o
2012-01-11T19:45:37 < hackkitten> I see the occasional hard one, but otherwise it's fine
2012-01-11T19:46:04 <+Steffanx> Sure hackkitten ?
2012-01-11T19:46:05 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120111-184553.png ..
2012-01-11T19:46:36 < hackkitten> aside from the occasional weird one, I said :P
2012-01-11T19:47:16 < karlp> I had maths forumlas, hebrew, all sorts
2012-01-11T19:47:36 < karlp> just keep typing, get a new one!
2012-01-11T19:47:50 <+Steffanx> I press enter on those
2012-01-11T19:47:58 <+Steffanx> return
2012-01-11T19:48:18 < hackkitten> I have seen captchas where in no case could I ever decipher any of the characters
2012-01-11T19:48:33 < hackkitten> recaptcha is a snap in comparison
2012-01-11T19:48:58 <+Steffanx> It sucks ReCaptcha even allows to make mistakes..
2012-01-11T19:50:31 <+Steffanx> 90210-5204 .. phone number in beverly hills? :)
2012-01-11T19:50:50 < karlp> recaptcha is like mech tuck though, you don't have to be right
2012-01-11T19:50:59 < karlp> you have to be like more of the answers than any others.
2012-01-11T20:01:15 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120111-190107.png that one should owkr
2012-01-11T20:03:26 < karlp> now, 60 days to work out what to buy...
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2012-01-11T20:36:04 <+Steffanx> Want my login so you can try again karlp ? :P
2012-01-11T20:36:15 < karlp> hell no, that was enough typing for me
2012-01-11T20:36:49 <+Steffanx> I need that $100 to pay the bill for the RSI i will have afterwards
2012-01-11T20:43:47 < jpa-> i'm gonna hate recaptcha for life
2012-01-11T20:43:58 <+Steffanx> I already did
2012-01-11T20:51:34 < jpa-> the money giving is slowing down
2012-01-11T20:51:48 < jpa-> i wonder if people will bother to finish it up to $200,000 anyway
2012-01-11T20:52:03 < jpa-> i heard the chances of winning are 0.02% per captcha
2012-01-11T20:54:43 <+Steffanx> yay
2012-01-11T20:55:36 < jpa-> so fill 3500 captchas and you have 50% chance of winning
2012-01-11T20:59:02 < Thorn> 3 643 637 / 937 = 3 888.62006
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2012-01-11T21:41:01 < Laurenceb_> yoyo
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2012-01-11T23:03:48 <+Steffanx> TeknoJuce ..
2012-01-11T23:04:05 < TeknoJuce> Yes?
2012-01-11T23:04:54 <+Steffanx> You join/quit's
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2012-01-11T23:10:42 < karlp> you're goign to have to deal with that Steffanx :)
2012-01-11T23:10:52 < karlp> we can talk more if you want to hide it beind some chatter?
2012-01-11T23:11:31 <+Steffanx> I guess that's a good solution karlp
2012-01-11T23:11:52  * izua pokes Steffanx 
2012-01-11T23:11:58 <+Steffanx> Hee!
2012-01-11T23:12:02 <+Steffanx> izua is ALIVE
2012-01-11T23:12:13 <+izua> IT"S ALIVEEEEEEE
2012-01-11T23:12:23 <+Steffanx> Long time no see
2012-01-11T23:12:33 <+izua> hai2u
2012-01-11T23:13:03 <+Steffanx> izua is into websites like that?
2012-01-11T23:13:28 <+izua> all of them
2012-01-11T23:13:40 <+izua> tubgirl, goatse, 2chan*2, etc
2012-01-11T23:14:21 <+Steffanx> poobutton.com ? :P
2012-01-11T23:15:30 <+Steffanx> You know I even emailed you becuase I had to know where you were? :P
2012-01-11T23:15:45 <+Steffanx> At least.. i think i did
2012-01-11T23:16:12 <+Steffanx> Not sure if it was your emailadres
2012-01-11T23:16:14 <+Steffanx> address
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2012-01-11T23:19:15 <+Steffanx> I
2012-01-11T23:19:20 <+Steffanx> m weird.. i know
2012-01-11T23:27:52 <+izua> my email is *@izua.ro
2012-01-11T23:28:02 <+izua> not really hard :P
2012-01-11T23:28:32 <+izua> and you didn't email me, you used one of those social thingies which spams my ass until i repy
2012-01-11T23:28:42 <+izua> gesture appreciated, nonetheless :P
2012-01-11T23:29:01 <+izua> how did your project go, btw? the one with anemomtric measrument?
2012-01-11T23:29:09 <+Steffanx> I used a gmail address :P
2012-01-11T23:29:14 <+izua> what was causing your Q signal to go out of phase?
2012-01-11T23:29:33 <+Steffanx> Dunno, but it was fixed in code :P
2012-01-11T23:29:57 <+Steffanx> I didn't finish the project.. no time for that
2012-01-11T23:30:03 <+Steffanx> And now I don't have it anymore
2012-01-11T23:30:14 <+Steffanx> Maybe i'll rebuilt it.. and make it smaller
2012-01-11T23:30:18 <+Steffanx> better hw
2012-01-11T23:30:47 <+izua> sounds epic
2012-01-11T23:31:35 <+Steffanx> but i have to dig into some theory about dsp first
2012-01-11T23:34:21 <+Steffanx> izua dot richard @ googles mail isn't yours izua ?
2012-01-11T23:34:48 <+izua> yeah, but it's a redirect to @izua.ro
2012-01-11T23:35:55 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-11T23:36:08 <+izua> ah well
2012-01-11T23:36:15 <+Steffanx> Who cares :)
2012-01-11T23:36:21 <+izua> i guess no one
2012-01-11T23:36:36 <+izua> as long as ameans of contact exists
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2012-01-11T23:36:54 <+izua> do you know about the raspberry pi?
2012-01-11T23:37:03 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-11T23:37:24 <+izua> opinions/etc?
2012-01-11T23:37:28 <+Steffanx> I WANT one, just like ½ of the other nerds :P
2012-01-11T23:37:34 < karlp> I WANT one too :)
2012-01-11T23:37:44 < karlp> it will be my new loungeroom pc.
2012-01-11T23:37:48 <+izua> qt from nokia offers 400 of em
2012-01-11T23:38:15 <+Steffanx> That's still possible?
2012-01-11T23:38:37 <+Steffanx> You have to make a Qt 5 app. isn't it?
2012-01-11T23:39:03 <+Steffanx> You are not 'into' the sparkfun freeday btw?
2012-01-11T23:39:09 < karlp> 12k to go...
2012-01-11T23:39:29 <+izua> i have 'bought' stuff every year from sparkfun
2012-01-11T23:39:32 <+izua> epic isp is epic.
2012-01-11T23:39:46 < karlp> first year I've won for me.
2012-01-11T23:39:57 <+izua> this year, it's much more sane
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2012-01-11T23:40:08 <+Steffanx> This is going the be the first year I didn't win anything karlp :P
2012-01-11T23:40:10 <+izua> before that, it was a routing contest
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2012-01-11T23:42:53 < BrainDamage> no win, like usual, for me
2012-01-11T23:44:07 <+Steffanx> The other sparkfun where more 'fun' izua
2012-01-11T23:44:37 <+Steffanx> This takes too much effort
2012-01-11T23:44:40 < BrainDamage> you mean the absurd race where I had no chance to win due to latency?
2012-01-11T23:44:52 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2012-01-11T23:44:55 <+izua> yeah
2012-01-11T23:44:56 <+Steffanx> F5 :D
2012-01-11T23:44:58 <+Steffanx> F5 :D
2012-01-11T23:44:58 <+Steffanx> F5 :D
2012-01-11T23:45:00 < karlp> typing for a while was much more fun than pressing f5 over and over
2012-01-11T23:45:07 <+Steffanx> No way karlp
2012-01-11T23:45:14 <+Steffanx> Those unreadable captcha's are hell
2012-01-11T23:45:16 < karlp> typing I can actually do.
2012-01-11T23:45:21 < karlp> so you miss some, so what
2012-01-11T23:45:24 < karlp> pressing f5 I won't wait
2012-01-11T23:45:37 < karlp> alt-tab, read, try f5 again, alt-tab
2012-01-11T23:45:45 <+izua> you can change refresh delays too :P
2012-01-11T23:46:32 <+Steffanx> I still liked it more
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2012-01-11T23:50:50 < BrainDamage> for the next year, I hope they bring back a questionaire, then simply extract randomly n pepople from the highest score after the day is over
2012-01-11T23:51:41 < karlp> the idea, I believed, was also to allow brand new people to get in, not just people who already know stuff/are already customers
--- Day changed Thu Jan 12 2012
2012-01-12T00:03:29 <+Steffanx> Nah, it was a boring free day :P
2012-01-12T00:05:39 < grummund> from #avr
2012-01-12T00:05:40 < grummund> 20:51 < karlp> sleep mode, 3V, atiny84: 4uA, stm32L: ~20uA
2012-01-12T00:05:40 < grummund> 20:51 < karlp> sorry, that was only sleep,
2012-01-12T00:05:40 < grummund> 20:51 < karlp> for the power down as much as possible, the 32L is around 5-10uA
2012-01-12T00:06:32 < karlp> that's just from the 32L datasheet
2012-01-12T00:06:50 < grummund> figures in the brochure say STM32Lxx lowest power mode 0.27uA
2012-01-12T00:08:07 < grummund> so is that just marketing spin?
2012-01-12T00:08:10 < karlp> stopped, disabled, no watchdog, no clocks, lowest voltage, the sheet says 0.6uA,
2012-01-12T00:08:39 < karlp> I was quoting the stop with rtc
2012-01-12T00:08:51 <+Steffanx> Isn't it always a markating 'spin' grummund ..
2012-01-12T00:08:58 < karlp> which is about comparable to the avr one, where people often use the watchdog to get multi second wakeups or so.
2012-01-12T00:09:00 <+Steffanx> *marketing
2012-01-12T00:09:42 < karlp> rtc from watch crystal, low voltage range, stopped with rtc, lcd off, normal temp, yeah, the sheet says 1.9uA
2012-01-12T00:09:43 < grummund> yeah tbh "with rtc" is the important figure for practical purposes
2012-01-12T00:09:49 < karlp> indeed.
2012-01-12T00:10:01 < karlp> the 32L sheet just has wayyyy more lines in it than the avr one :)
2012-01-12T00:10:25 < grummund> also you should compare with xmega really, not attiny,
2012-01-12T00:10:36 < karlp> well, they asked for tiny/mega.
2012-01-12T00:10:47 < karlp> tiny84 is the other one I've used on a low power node before
2012-01-12T00:11:10 < karlp> as the ongoing shouting over there suggests, the real power difference between the two is going to be largely irrelevant
2012-01-12T00:11:23 < karlp> but the 32L is more expensive
2012-01-12T00:11:33 < grummund> yeah ok... but i mean xmega is similar in respects that clock speed can be dynamic
2012-01-12T00:11:41 < karlp> it's possibly a more worthwhile comparison to look at the F sereis?
2012-01-12T00:11:44  * karlp shrugs
2012-01-12T00:11:58 < grummund> maybe...
2012-01-12T00:12:04 < karlp> I think the power and periphs of the arms probably let you stay "active" for a lot less time as well.
2012-01-12T00:12:10 < grummund> headline figure for xmega is 0.6uA
2012-01-12T00:13:42 < karlp> down that low you're really into the leakage currents in ultra low regs and low power sensors and so on.
2012-01-12T00:13:42 < grummund> so on face value xmega is 2x power hungry than stm32
2012-01-12T00:13:51 < grummund> but of course that's not the case...
2012-01-12T00:14:15 < karlp> I can't see _anything_ in the 32L sheet I have that's 0.27uA
2012-01-12T00:14:33 < karlp> 0.27mA, fully active however...?
2012-01-12T00:14:38 < BrainDamage> the thing that annoys me the most of 32L devices is the power
2012-01-12T00:14:44 < BrainDamage> err, price
2012-01-12T00:14:56 < karlp> hehe, freudian slip?
2012-01-12T00:15:01 < BrainDamage> yup
2012-01-12T00:15:25 < grummund> "Lowest power mode (uA): 0.27"
2012-01-12T00:15:57 < grummund> "Run mode (per MHz) (uA): 230"
2012-01-12T00:16:01 < karlp> ah yep, found it.
2012-01-12T00:16:20 < BrainDamage> that's actually comparable with msp430 devices
2012-01-12T00:16:26 < karlp> IDD (standby) rtc disabled, watchdog and low speed internal oscillator off, 0.3uA
2012-01-12T00:16:38 < karlp> I wonder if you can even wake up from that?
2012-01-12T00:16:52 < BrainDamage> hardware interrupt?
2012-01-12T00:17:00 < karlp> presumably.
2012-01-12T00:17:11 < BrainDamage> I mean on external io pin
2012-01-12T00:17:18 < karlp> yeah, that's what I presume
2012-01-12T00:17:26 < karlp> doesn't look like anything internal's going to wake you up
2012-01-12T00:17:52 < grummund> i'm genuinely interested in comparison for typical "standby with rtc" mode, avr vs. stm32.
2012-01-12T00:19:53 < karlp> the guy at jeelabs.org has done a lot of work getting super low "wakeup from software" powered avrs,
2012-01-12T00:20:06 < karlp> also using a radio that he turns on and off,
2012-01-12T00:20:23 < karlp> he's got some pretty good examples of what the sheet says, and what he's been able to get, and how close that is.
2012-01-12T00:20:35 < karlp> and lots of scope pics showing current spikes for all sorts of things.
2012-01-12T00:20:54 < karlp> I've spent far too much time on imgur and in bars to get far enough with my own 32L project
2012-01-12T00:21:23 < grummund> thanks
2012-01-12T00:21:54 < karlp> and, if you see anything real world and more hobbyist targetted for arm's, I'd love to see it too :)
2012-01-12T00:22:33 < karlp> 32L board id designed for that sort of eval by the way, it has a header specifically for hooking an ammeter up to :)
2012-01-12T00:25:11 < karlp> 32L is confusing, run, low power run, sleep, low power sleep, stop, and then finally standby
2012-01-12T00:25:35 < karlp> man, standby even tosses out registers and sram
2012-01-12T00:25:54 <+Steffanx> With 32L you mean an AVR or STM32?
2012-01-12T00:26:06 < karlp> 32L is stm32L, (in this channel at least)
2012-01-12T00:26:21 < karlp> most of the L suffixed parts from atmel had been replaced by P and PA I thought?
2012-01-12T00:26:30 <+Steffanx> Yes, but there's an atmega32L too, and you talked about AVR's :)
2012-01-12T00:26:41 < BrainDamage> that standby sounds more like a shutdown
2012-01-12T00:26:46 < BrainDamage> if it clears registers and ram
2012-01-12T00:26:49 < karlp> yeah
2012-01-12T00:28:19 < karlp> Steffanx: atmega32L is no longer listed as a curreent device on atmel.com
2012-01-12T00:28:22 < karlp> presumable replaced by 32A?
2012-01-12T00:28:35 <+Steffanx> That's possible, but i'm from the 'old' generation :P
2012-01-12T00:28:41 < karlp> old fogey :)
2012-01-12T00:30:24 <+Steffanx> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_docs.asp?category_id=163&family_id=607&subfamily_id=760&part_id=2014 there it is :P
2012-01-12T00:31:35  * karlp wonders if he's interested in "spending" time working out the difference between 32(L) ands 32A
2012-01-12T00:32:28 <+Steffanx> It only took a few seconds so...
2012-01-12T00:32:38 <+Steffanx> And it's Wednesday evening, so .. who cares
2012-01-12T00:55:40 -!- ratatata [~nu@88-222-70-216.meganet.lt] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-12T00:55:56 < ratatata> nu
2012-01-12T00:56:21 <+Steffanx> Nee, niet nu
2012-01-12T00:59:01 < ratatata> sorryv for my /amsg nu
2012-01-12T00:59:10 < ratatata> its jus for other network
2012-01-12T00:59:28 < ratatata> in english nu have no meaning
2012-01-12T01:00:18 <+Steffanx> No, that's why i responded i Dutch :P
2012-01-12T01:00:40 < ratatata> im lituhuaninan
2012-01-12T01:00:42 < ratatata> here nu
2012-01-12T01:00:44 < ratatata> means
2012-01-12T01:00:45 < ratatata> like
2012-01-12T01:00:49 < ratatata> in english
2012-01-12T01:00:51 < ratatata> yo
2012-01-12T01:00:54 < ratatata> or smth
2012-01-12T01:00:58 < ratatata> duno
2012-01-12T01:01:11 < ratatata> cant find such world in english
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2012-01-12T03:16:18 < dekar__> izua, hey :)
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2012-01-12T13:59:33 <+Steffanx> morning
2012-01-12T13:59:41 < karlp> just :)
2012-01-12T13:59:44 < karlp> good morning :)
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2012-01-12T18:00:47 <+Steffanx> You didn't talk enough karlp ..
2012-01-12T18:01:00 <+Steffanx> So now i've seen all quit/join messages from Tekno Juce
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2012-01-12T18:05:42 < ratatata> nu
2012-01-12T18:06:42 <+Steffanx> Nee, niet nu
2012-01-12T18:09:24 < ratatata> ;)
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2012-01-12T19:23:40 < karlp> BrainDamage: talking about stm32L, farnell, surprisingly, has them cheaper than anywhere else.
2012-01-12T19:24:45 < BrainDamage> karlp: price range?
2012-01-12T19:24:53 <+Steffanx> Farnell and cheap?!
2012-01-12T19:26:37 < karlp> 32kflash are 2.70 pounds
2012-01-12T19:26:45 < karlp> that's the non-lcd version,
2012-01-12T19:26:58 < karlp> in 48pin,
2012-01-12T19:27:32 < karlp> mouser's funny, they have the non-lcd for 7.15eur, and the with-lcd for 5.87 eur
2012-01-12T19:28:06 <+Steffanx> What about VAT?
2012-01-12T19:28:50 < BrainDamage> 4.5€ per unit the cheapest :/
2012-01-12T19:28:54 < karlp> I'm not in the EU
2012-01-12T19:29:26 < karlp> so I just pay local vat, regardless of where it came from
2012-01-12T19:30:16 <+Steffanx> Yes, but mouser sometimes shows prices incl. VAT and Farnell doesn't
2012-01-12T19:30:27 <+Steffanx> Or taxes, whatever you call it
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2012-01-12T23:02:28 < karlp> does anyone have any comments on the free/openness of the stdperiph lib provided by ST?
2012-01-12T23:03:07 < karlp> it's my understanding that it's free and opensource, but not gpl compatible?
2012-01-12T23:06:37 < Laurenceb_> i think so
2012-01-12T23:06:39 < karlp> the license text just says, "copyright st"
2012-01-12T23:06:42 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-01-12T23:06:53 < Laurenceb_> i doubt ST care what you do with it
2012-01-12T23:06:58 < Laurenceb_> but it is slightly annoying
2012-01-12T23:07:18 < karlp> yet we've got libopencm3 ranting about it not being free, and them rewriting half of it from scratch, but under GPL
2012-01-12T23:07:30  * Laurenceb_ facepalms
2012-01-12T23:07:39 < BrainDamage> copyright doesn't mean gpl incompatible
2012-01-12T23:07:39 < karlp> kinda how I felt.
2012-01-12T23:07:49 < karlp> BrainDamage: that's what I thought
2012-01-12T23:07:57 < Laurenceb_> i hate to think what Stallman would say
2012-01-12T23:08:07 < Laurenceb_> probably we should boycott ST or something
2012-01-12T23:08:14 < BrainDamage> in fact, I wrote few software, and I slapped on license AND copyright
2012-01-12T23:08:44 < BrainDamage> for my shitty understanding of the system, license tells you how to use the material, and copyright who does it belong to
2012-01-12T23:09:09 < karlp> so, if the st stdperiph is without a license, and just has copyright, what does it mean?
2012-01-12T23:09:19 < karlp> WHAT DOES IT MEEEEEAAANNNN! whoooahhhhhh!
2012-01-12T23:09:35 < BrainDamage> that you got no idea how to use it
2012-01-12T23:10:06 < BrainDamage> again IANAL, but default is all rights reserved
2012-01-12T23:10:35 < karlp> I'm going to go with, "I'm going to compile it as a .lib, and link statically (oh the horror!) and make my own code under whatever license I feel like"
2012-01-12T23:11:07 < BrainDamage> I would too, afterall, if they published, they wanted for it to be used
2012-01-12T23:11:33 < Laurenceb_> hehe thats a good solution
2012-01-12T23:12:25 < karlp> same as the whole LGPL in embedded shitstorm.
2012-01-12T23:12:40 < karlp> I'll go with the intention, rather than the letters I believe.
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2012-01-13T12:45:18  * izua pokes Steffanx 
2012-01-13T12:45:24 <+Steffanx> Lo
2012-01-13T12:46:43 <+izua> Hi-Z
2012-01-13T13:05:32 <+Steffanx> So you did anything interesting in the last few months, izua ?
2012-01-13T13:06:44 <+izua> oh, loads of stuff, just not really electronics related
2012-01-13T13:07:20 <+Steffanx> Boring :P
2012-01-13T13:07:37 <+izua> moved out, been in an accident, went through several jobs, etc. life-ing crap :P
2012-01-13T13:07:51 < karlp> several jobs in the last few months?
2012-01-13T13:07:57 < karlp> that's some serious life-ing
2012-01-13T13:08:06 <+Steffanx> Serious accident?
2012-01-13T13:09:05 <+izua> nah, nothing too serious
2012-01-13T13:09:19 <+izua> ah well.
2012-01-13T13:09:26 <+izua> how did your anemometer project go?
2012-01-13T13:09:48 <+Steffanx> I guess it was a serious accident, or you always had some brain damage ::P
2012-01-13T13:10:03 <+Steffanx> You've asked the same question a few days ago
2012-01-13T13:10:32 <+izua> hahaha
2012-01-13T13:12:05 <+Steffanx> I'm currently watching the videos of the Standard course about Machine Learning. Sometimes I wonder if that's really how they teach on Stanford
2012-01-13T13:12:13 <+izua> ah, whoopsie.
2012-01-13T13:12:21 <+Steffanx> Sometimes he explains things which are sooo obvious
2012-01-13T13:12:41 <+izua> i'm busy as fuck lately. this moving out thing is much more tiring than i expected
2012-01-13T13:12:59 <+izua> oh, you should totally join our classes
2012-01-13T13:13:10 <+izua> they only explain things are that too obvious and also outdated
2012-01-13T13:16:11 <+Steffanx> I've had enough classes like that :P
2012-01-13T13:17:07 <+Steffanx> They even thought me this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Boolean_Expression_Language
2012-01-13T13:17:08 <+Steffanx> HELP
2012-01-13T13:17:11 <+Steffanx> 1983 !!
2012-01-13T13:17:48 <+izua> hehehehe
2012-01-13T13:17:55 <+izua> ABEL is cool
2012-01-13T13:18:02 <+Steffanx> The application needed a security dongle on the parallel port :)
2012-01-13T13:18:42 <+Steffanx> The way it works it very outdated imho
2012-01-13T13:18:44 <+izua> we had a factory here, IPRS (radio parts and semiconductors, inc) is the pride of every old school EE here
2012-01-13T13:19:05 <+izua> and we were shown chips that could do an abel implementation, sort-of
2012-01-13T13:19:15 <+izua> basically, burning fuses on a bunch of and/or chains
2012-01-13T13:19:34 <+izua> who needs fpgas anyway
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2012-01-13T13:20:24 <+Steffanx> We had to design a 'museum security' system with ABEL and a PLD .. it was pretty funny though
2012-01-13T13:20:45 <+izua> lol
2012-01-13T13:20:52 <+izua> inb4 cobol
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2012-01-13T15:01:26 < karlp> you may find this enjoyable then: https://twitter.com/#!/lordedmundbryll
2012-01-13T15:18:40 < Laurenceb> flyback: lost you virginity yet?
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2012-01-13T15:33:47 < ratatata> nu
2012-01-13T16:00:11 < karlp> ratatata: did you get your chain built last night in the end?
2012-01-13T16:26:01 < ratatata> yep, but i had to recompile it few times
2012-01-13T16:26:25 < ratatata> left pc on
2012-01-13T16:26:30 < ratatata> and went to sleep
2012-01-13T16:26:42 < karlp> oh well, at least it works now :)
2012-01-13T16:26:47 < ratatata> woke up and saw that everything is ok
2012-01-13T16:27:01 < ratatata> dont know if it work
2012-01-13T16:27:30 < ratatata> but i compiled it without errors
2012-01-13T16:30:21 < karlp> you can try the libopencm3 project see if the examples build,
2012-01-13T16:30:47 < karlp> or the examples currently in stlink, or in my examples project.
2012-01-13T16:31:24 < BrainDamage> In order to build libopencm3, I had to rename a function called _write multiple times in the examples
2012-01-13T16:31:43 < BrainDamage> nice my compiler would automatically include newlib, and the function was already used
2012-01-13T16:58:18 <+izua> or you can just skip the examples
2012-01-13T16:59:10 <+izua> is anyone aware if there's a less-restricted lib for stm32 devices than libopenstm32?
2012-01-13T16:59:13 <+izua> (inb4 cm3)
2012-01-13T17:08:41 < karlp> depending on interpretation, there's the stdperiph from ST,
2012-01-13T17:08:50 < karlp> cm3 is pretty bare, that's cpu only
2012-01-13T17:16:19 <+izua> uh yes, the stdperiph
2012-01-13T17:17:32 <+izua> i don't mind GPL, but libopenstm32 is heaps better than the standard periperhal lib. however, GPL sort of means you can't do anything commercially and expect a profit (well, legally at least)
2012-01-13T17:18:23 < BrainDamage> I tought you could still sell it, just give a mean to provide the source too
2012-01-13T17:18:34 <+izua> indeed
2012-01-13T17:18:41 <+izua> i'm saying 'expect a profit'
2012-01-13T17:18:59 <+izua> the first smart guy that comes along can do a similar board with yours, and then request your source code.
2012-01-13T17:19:26 <+izua> you are legally bound to give it, which is not only the libopenstm32, but your actual code using it.
2012-01-13T17:19:37 <+izua> then, he can offer exactly the same product as you do, at a different price.
2012-01-13T17:19:58 <+izua> i'm not too picky about it tho - i'm mostly a registry level guy xD
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2012-01-13T18:15:43 < jpa-> izua: well, you can get profit from the hardware design :)
2012-01-13T18:16:34 < jpa-> (as long as it is not easily copyable :)
2012-01-13T18:16:48 <+izua> yeah, heh
2012-01-13T18:17:21 <+izua> diode matrix under the chip, and somehow have the chip perform an important function through that matrix
2012-01-13T18:24:46 < jpa-> or just an fpga or something
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2012-01-13T18:34:09 < grummund> is that true?... if you sell hardware with GPL code embedded on it then you must release the source code?
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2012-01-13T18:36:42 < BrainDamage> it's a bit of grey area
2012-01-13T18:37:02 < BrainDamage> there's some precedents, like linksys that did that, and was forced to release the source changes
2012-01-13T18:37:34 < BrainDamage> the problem is demonstrating that a black box is running GPL software
2012-01-13T18:39:52 < grummund> ok, but let's say it's no secret that GPL is used... and even the vendor admits it.
2012-01-13T18:40:15 < BrainDamage> IANAL
2012-01-13T18:40:43 < BrainDamage> afaik gpl would force you to make the source available, at least on request
2012-01-13T18:40:45 < karlp> you have to allow access to things, not necessarily make it easy
2012-01-13T18:40:52 < karlp> or make it easy to rebuild it.
2012-01-13T18:41:16 < BrainDamage> yes, omitting the buildsystem for instance can be rather nasty complication
2012-01-13T18:41:24 < BrainDamage> esp if the buildsystem does non trivial stuff
2012-01-13T18:41:26 < grummund> There are plenty of proprietry routers which use Linux under the hood.
2012-01-13T18:41:40 < karlp> sure, like the one I work on.
2012-01-13T18:41:49 < karlp> but you don't have to provide the source of your _apps_
2012-01-13T18:42:02 < BrainDamage> linux programs don't have to be gpl
2012-01-13T18:42:04 < karlp> only the source of anything gpl linked, or mods to lgpl
2012-01-13T18:42:18 < BrainDamage> there are commercial programs for linux allright
2012-01-13T18:43:36 < grummund> ok i get it
2012-01-13T18:44:11 < BrainDamage> the thing with routers, is that they actually modified the kernel
2012-01-13T18:44:18 < grummund> this is why we have newlib instead of glibc.
2012-01-13T18:44:21 < BrainDamage> they added patches, and done drivers
2012-01-13T18:44:45 < BrainDamage> and they didn't release the modifications they did
2012-01-13T18:46:33 < karlp> newlib was (iirc) two forked, a) smaller, and b) bsd, because lgpl's "l" doesn't actually mean anything in embedded.
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2012-01-13T19:02:25 < zippe> iazua: depending on what you're doing, an RTOS like NuttX may have drivers that are useful to you.
2012-01-13T19:13:24 < karlp> even freertos or chibios
2012-01-13T19:33:59 < karlp> sweet, I always love it when I get to unit test stuff in C
2012-01-13T19:34:07 < karlp> I need to rember to do this more often.
2012-01-13T19:42:51 < jpa-> it is lovely :)
2012-01-13T19:42:55 < jpa-> what do you use to do it?
2012-01-13T19:46:49 <+izua> there are a lot of gray areas with gpl
2012-01-13T19:46:51 <+izua> for example, tivo iirc
2012-01-13T19:46:55 <+izua> used some sort of checksumming
2012-01-13T19:46:58 <+izua> so you could compile and everything
2012-01-13T19:47:16 <+izua> but the hardware would checksum your binary, and if it didn't match what they wanted, it didn't update
2012-01-13T19:47:23 <+izua> essentially allowing you 'read-only' access to the code
2012-01-13T19:47:31 <+izua> (thus the reason for gplv3)
2012-01-13T19:47:50 <+izua> i have to go
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2012-01-13T19:48:05 < BrainDamage> yes, all you have to do is veryfy a digital signature
2012-01-13T19:48:06 <+izua> if anyone is interested in this legal field further, drop me a line when i get back
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2012-01-13T19:48:35 < BrainDamage> but you still get the fact that people can copy your code
2012-01-13T19:59:48 < karlp> jpa-: I'm using check at the moment.
2012-01-13T20:00:13 < karlp> it's not as nice as unit tests in java or python or anything, at least, netbeans doesn't let me debug into "make tests"
2012-01-13T20:00:23 < karlp> but it's still pretty damn awesome.
2012-01-13T20:03:12 < zippe> karlp: FreeRTOS has no drivers.
2012-01-13T20:03:46 < sourcebox> Hello everybody. I wonder if anybody was able yet to get OpenOCD running with the new STLink support.
2012-01-13T20:04:34 < BrainDamage> has it actually been integrated in the mainstream?
2012-01-13T20:04:43 < BrainDamage> also, does it support v1 too now?
2012-01-13T20:05:14 < sourcebox> It seems that they are currently working on it
2012-01-13T20:05:43 < sourcebox> http://openocd.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=openocd/openocd;a=summary
2012-01-13T20:05:59 < sourcebox> A lot of commits in the last days
2012-01-13T20:08:42 < BrainDamage> I really hope they don't limit themselves to v2
2012-01-13T20:11:04 < sourcebox> I think it will support both versions
2012-01-13T20:14:28 < sourcebox> Well, I compiled the latest Rev, but I don't get it even started. It throws the message invalid command name "jtag_ntrst_delay"
2012-01-13T20:15:31 < sourcebox> I never used OpenOCD before, so I don't know how to get rid of it
2012-01-13T20:19:31 < zippe> sourcebox: It usually means you have specified the "wrong" configuration file
2012-01-13T20:19:31 < zippe> Where "wrong" means "OpenOCD configuration is a mess"
2012-01-13T20:20:22 < sourcebox> Ok, let's see...
2012-01-13T20:21:19 < sourcebox> It recognizes the correct cfg File - the one I created
2012-01-13T20:21:38 < sourcebox> This file contains the following settings:
2012-01-13T20:21:44 < sourcebox> telnet_port 4444
2012-01-13T20:21:50 < sourcebox> gdb_port 3333
2012-01-13T20:21:56 < sourcebox> source [find interface/stlink-usb.cfg]
2012-01-13T20:22:02 < sourcebox> source [find target/stm32l.cfg]
2012-01-13T20:22:26 < sourcebox> I don't see any errors
2012-01-13T20:23:06 < zippe> In that case, the stm32l.cfg may not have been updated; the command it's complaining about is probably in there.  Try just commenting it out
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2012-01-13T20:24:01 < sourcebox> Then I get "Error: BUG: current_target out of bounds"
2012-01-13T20:29:13 < sourcebox> Ok, I saw that there is a new stm32lx_stlink.cfg now
2012-01-13T20:29:24 < sourcebox> Seems to be new
2012-01-13T20:29:56 < BrainDamage>  http://glossynews.com/top-stories/business-news/201003220744/“my-little-pony”-chewy-fruit-snacks-found-to
2012-01-13T20:30:09 < BrainDamage> ops
2012-01-13T20:30:10 < BrainDamage>  http://glossynews.com/top-stories/business-news/201003220744/“my-little-pony”-chewy-fruit-snacks-found-to-contain-horse-meat/
2012-01-13T20:37:44 < sourcebox> Using that file makes a difference though, I get a lot of libusb.info messages
2012-01-13T20:39:54 < sourcebox> In the end, it fails with "v"
2012-01-13T20:39:57 < sourcebox> target not found: idcode: 2ba01477
2012-01-13T20:48:44 < sourcebox> Well, the config file sets "set CPUTAPID 0x4ba00477" explicitly, but that seems to get lost somewhere
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2012-01-15T01:22:35 < Laurenceb_> the dma byte remaining register, in circular mode its reset by hardware as soon as it reaches 0 right?
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2012-01-15T01:33:55 < zippe> Laurenceb_: Are you looking for precise timing?
2012-01-15T01:34:39 < Laurenceb_> no
2012-01-15T01:34:51 < Laurenceb_> im after my buffer not jamming up :P
2012-01-15T01:34:57 < Laurenceb_> something is going wrong
2012-01-15T01:35:10 < zippe> Then yes, my reading is that after the transfer that corresponds to count zero, it will reload
2012-01-15T01:35:21 < zippe> Are you running pure circular, or DBM?
2012-01-15T01:35:22 < Laurenceb_> cool
2012-01-15T01:35:32 < Laurenceb_> whats DBM?
2012-01-15T01:35:41 < Laurenceb_> two half tranfer interrupts?
2012-01-15T01:35:55 < Laurenceb_> im using circular with polling
2012-01-15T01:43:21 < zippe> double-buffered mode
2012-01-15T01:43:32 < zippe> It may be an F2/F4ism
2012-01-15T01:43:52 < Laurenceb_> i think so
2012-01-15T01:43:54 < Laurenceb_> F1 here
2012-01-15T01:44:05 < Laurenceb_> grr i cant see whats breaking
2012-01-15T01:44:20 < Laurenceb_> this is why you should only make a few changes to code at a time
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2012-01-15T14:28:44 < |Marco|> I have this dev board http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Micrium/BRD-EVAL-STF107-P-P1/?qs=GMPlPsVOpdaHZVSibifObg%3d%3d and I'm trying to use OpenOCD to flash it in linux, it uses a onboard J-Link interface for flashing/debug ++
2012-01-15T14:29:58 < |Marco|> when I issue "monitor reset halt" after connecting to the openocd session, I get an error on the halt command.. do any of you have any experience with this sort of setup/error ?
2012-01-15T16:08:30 < karlp> not me, I haven't seen many people using openocd here to be honest, or at least, not talking about it.
2012-01-15T16:13:51 < jpa-> yeah, we are all st-link people here :)
2012-01-15T16:14:00 < dekar_> I am using openocd
2012-01-15T16:14:16 < dekar_> with the versaloon jtag adapter
2012-01-15T16:15:04 < dekar_> I guess I'll have a look at my openocd script later
2012-01-15T16:16:19 < |Marco|> point is that I have no problem with other arm boards I've got
2012-01-15T16:16:42 < |Marco|> only that one dev board.. *hint* Micrium board
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2012-01-15T16:58:42 < dekar_> oh, no idea then
2012-01-15T16:59:03 < dekar_> it just worked out of the box for me
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2012-01-15T17:22:11 < Thorn> I use openocd but not with j-link hardware
2012-01-15T17:22:47 < Thorn> I suggest that you download j-link software from segger and try that, it includes a gdb server
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2012-01-15T18:24:53 < Thorn> how do you measure supply U & I with the builtin ADC? external voltage reference for U and shunt + op amp (and reference) for I?
2012-01-15T18:26:41 < dekar_> I guess
2012-01-15T18:26:43 < jpa-> depends a lot on what precision you need
2012-01-15T18:26:44 < BrainDamage> you don't need reference for I once you use shunt & opamp
2012-01-15T18:26:57 < jpa-> if you have a regulator for the VCC, you don't necessarily need a reference
2012-01-15T18:26:58 < BrainDamage> it might need calibration according to your precision requirements
2012-01-15T18:27:45 < Thorn> well I guess there's not much point measuring U after the regulator
2012-01-15T18:28:18 < BrainDamage> the regulator would make sure the adc's reference is stable
2012-01-15T18:28:34 < BrainDamage> provided there's enough voltage for the regulator to work
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2012-01-15T18:29:48 < Thorn> how good (and usable) is the internal reference in stm32?
2012-01-15T18:30:50 < Thorn> I'm reading abour avr, they have a 1.1V internal reference which can be +/-10% in certain chips
2012-01-15T18:31:44 < Thorn> as far as precision goes, I think better than 1% wouldn't be worth it
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2012-01-15T18:57:59 <+izua_> get a zenner, use that as a reference, and eventually measure its drop with a precision instrument, use the measurment as a factory programmed value, that should probably get you in the 1% or better range
2012-01-15T19:03:02 < Thorn> that might lead to temperature stability problems (not that I care a whole lot lol)
2012-01-15T19:08:39 <+izua_> my guess is that's still better than the internal reference
2012-01-15T19:09:22 <+izua_> for measuring I, there are also some dedicated 'current sensor' chips
2012-01-15T19:10:11 <+izua_> uh, some magnetic film, or something like that
2012-01-15T19:10:15 <+izua_> let me look 'em up
2012-01-15T19:10:43 <+izua_> http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZMC10.pdf
2012-01-15T19:17:41 < Thorn> there're also I to U converters
2012-01-15T19:17:59 < Thorn> and even current measuring ADCs I think
2012-01-15T19:18:18 <+izua_> that's just a opam with a current sensing resistor
2012-01-15T19:18:29 <+izua_> this is fancier! it also has magnets.
2012-01-15T19:18:50 < Thorn> the problem is as usual in price and availability
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2012-01-15T19:19:27 < Thorn> zeners and some op amps is all I currently have
2012-01-15T19:22:38 < BrainDamage> it'll be enough
2012-01-15T19:22:50 < BrainDamage> the only problem is the current sensing
2012-01-15T19:23:05 < BrainDamage> and the opamp dynamic
2012-01-15T19:23:16 < BrainDamage> many don't like input close to rails
2012-01-15T19:23:24 < BrainDamage> for both Vcc and GND
2012-01-15T19:23:42 <+izua_> the input voltage can be adjusted in whatever range the opamp likes, i guess
2012-01-15T19:23:49 < Thorn> yeah, RtR inputs
2012-01-15T19:24:06 <+izua_> but then you'd add more sources of error
2012-01-15T20:01:42 < jnosky> You could allways just calibrate against the onboard reference
2012-01-15T20:01:54 < jnosky> Its error will most likely just be some offset
2012-01-15T20:02:18 < jnosky> If your measurements are relative, it prolly won t matter at all
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2012-01-15T22:01:40 < Thorn> so I need a 3.3V (or maybe 4.5V) op amp with the inputs that go to the negative rail
2012-01-15T22:01:47 < Thorn> (for current sensing)
2012-01-15T22:02:05 < jpa-> remember that you need a quite small input offset voltage if you don't calibrate it
2012-01-15T22:02:33 < jpa-> otherwise lm358 etc. could do
2012-01-15T22:03:14 < Thorn> all I currently have that's close is lm224
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2012-01-15T22:03:23 < Thorn> so might as well buy something better
2012-01-15T22:07:59 < jpa-> well, lm224 could be enough
2012-01-15T22:09:05 < Thorn> marginally, according to the online tool at national.com
2012-01-15T22:09:48 <+Steffanx> Just abuse the sample service from TI Thorn ? :P
2012-01-15T22:10:12 <+Steffanx> They have all kind of nice opamps
2012-01-15T22:10:38 < jpa-> Thorn: what is the limiting factor?
2012-01-15T22:10:40 < Thorn> well if they will send to my country... some people here do that I think
2012-01-15T22:11:11 < Thorn> supply voltage, 3.3V is not enough, 5V is but I'm not sure I'll have full 5V
2012-01-15T22:12:48 < Thorn> it can't output more than Vcc-1.5V
2012-01-15T22:13:34 < Thorn> and I want 2.5V (for a 2.5V reference)
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2012-01-15T22:17:00 <+Steffanx> So get a modern rail2rail opamp Thorn :)
2012-01-15T22:17:09 < Thorn> oh and I reference the op amp to 0V, that would require me to place the shunt into the ground lead
2012-01-15T22:17:27 < Thorn> not sure if that's problematic
2012-01-15T22:17:32 < sunilg> am trying to run USB_FS_Device_lib vcom It runs successfully on stm32h107 and goes in while(1) loop.But I dont how to print data on terminal. I have tried using functions USB_SIL_Write(EP1_IN, buffer_in, count_in) but in vain. Can anybody help?
2012-01-15T22:17:34 < sunilg> I am using olimex board with STM32F107VCT6 mcu
2012-01-15T22:20:34 < Thorn> have you set it up to use the OTG controller? 107 has no device hardware
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2012-01-15T22:22:41 < Thorn> AD wants your money (preferably all of it) http://www.analog.com/en/circuits-from-the-lab/CN0100/vc.html
2012-01-15T22:22:54 < sunilg> yes.. we have set up hw_config.h and platform_config.h correctly. and I am able to detect USB OTG Bus 007 Device 003: ID 0483:5740 SGS Thomson Microelectronics
2012-01-15T22:24:14 < sunilg> Thorn: I am stuck while transfering data
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2012-01-15T22:28:42 < Thorn> I could me very wrong here as I only looked onto that once, but have you called SetEPTxStatus(ENDP1, EP_TX_VALID);?
2012-01-15T22:29:31 < Thorn> before transmitting anything
2012-01-15T22:29:56 < Thorn> s/ENDP1/EP1_IN/
2012-01-15T22:30:14 < sunilg> no..
2012-01-15T22:31:11 < sunilg> I will add the line and try it out
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2012-01-15T22:39:23 < sunilg> I have added some code in main.c it is as follows: http://pastebin.com/3dfDQqiQ ----------> It goes in hard fault handler
2012-01-15T22:41:22 < sunilg> Thorn : I also dont know how to recieve data send through USB OTG on linux terminal ? should I use minicom ?
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2012-01-15T23:11:32 < Laurenceb_> anyone here experienced with i2c?
2012-01-15T23:11:42 < Laurenceb_> i have issues with a sensor :(
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2012-01-15T23:20:24 < Thorn> what sensor?
2012-01-15T23:23:09 <+izua> Laurenceb: what sensor?
2012-01-15T23:32:18 < Laurenceb_> lsm303dlh magnetometer
2012-01-15T23:32:30 < Laurenceb_> its got a hmc5883 from honeywell inside
2012-01-15T23:32:53 < Laurenceb_> im seeing weird things happening to the data - like wraparound errors
2012-01-15T23:33:13 < Laurenceb_> Magno -171,-15,296
2012-01-15T23:33:14 < Laurenceb_> Magno -194,-247,301
2012-01-15T23:33:19 < Laurenceb_> ^that sort of thing
2012-01-15T23:33:30 < Laurenceb_> y axis delta ~256
2012-01-15T23:34:52 < Laurenceb_> same on the other axes
2012-01-15T23:35:47 < Laurenceb_> it doesnt seem to be endianess wrong - as i see ~a few lsb noise
2012-01-15T23:36:06 <+izua> uh.
2012-01-15T23:36:09 < Laurenceb_> and alignment seems correct - the axes correspond to where they should be
2012-01-15T23:36:09 <+izua> my bets are on parsing errors?
2012-01-15T23:36:33 < Laurenceb_> ive looked through all the code :S
2012-01-15T23:36:43 < Laurenceb_> my accel code is the same and works fine
2012-01-15T23:37:17 <+izua> oh.
2012-01-15T23:37:26 <+izua> so they do share the same format
2012-01-15T23:37:32 <+izua> hmm, try filtering the data a bit?
2012-01-15T23:37:39 < Laurenceb_> no they have opposite endianess
2012-01-15T23:37:46 < Laurenceb_> its full of +-128 errors
2012-01-15T23:38:11 < Laurenceb_> or rather 256 shifts
2012-01-15T23:38:20 < Laurenceb_> no way youd clean that up
2012-01-15T23:38:48 < Laurenceb_> and the results are nonsense - its like the last bit or two of the MSB is screwed
2012-01-15T23:39:50 <+izua> mask them
2012-01-15T23:39:52 <+izua> see what happens?
2012-01-15T23:40:06 <+izua> sounds to me like it's using a different negative integer representation?
2012-01-15T23:41:37 < Laurenceb_> it worked with polled i2c
2012-01-15T23:41:50 < Laurenceb_> i need to grab my old code from git and see if it works
2012-01-15T23:42:32 < Laurenceb_> id think it was a hardware bug on the stm but it only effects the MSB of this one sensor
2012-01-15T23:46:08 < Thorn> the errata seems to impy that I2C isn't guaranteed to work except in DMA mode or with highest priority interrupts
2012-01-15T23:46:41 < Thorn> i.e. their 1/2/3+ byte magic doesn't actually work
2012-01-15T23:47:57 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats what im using
2012-01-15T23:48:33 < Laurenceb_> but the errata lists all the issues and i dont seem to be vulnerable to any of them with my setup
2012-01-15T23:49:05 < Laurenceb_> i take the business about current byte tranfer finished as meaning you have to avoid the hardware buffer filling?
2012-01-15T23:49:11 < Thorn> sounds like you could sniffing the bus with a LA to see if the sensor actually sends correct data
2012-01-15T23:49:38 < Thorn> as I understand it the errata isn't actually that specific
2012-01-15T23:51:14 < Laurenceb_> hmm maybe
2012-01-15T23:51:32 < Laurenceb_> When the EV7, EV7_1, EV6_1, EV6_3, EV2, EV8, and EV3 events are not managed before
2012-01-15T23:51:32 < Laurenceb_> the current byte is being transferred
2012-01-15T23:51:52 < Laurenceb_> dont know what that means? the current hardware buffered byte?
2012-01-15T23:53:21 < Laurenceb_> i can see how you'd only see it currupting the least significant bit of the most significant data byte
2012-01-15T23:53:34 < Laurenceb_> as the corrupted LSB would be lost in the noise
2012-01-15T23:53:50 <+izua> jitter?
2012-01-15T23:53:58 < Laurenceb_> but i cant see why itd cause the corruption only when the LSB is ~0, 255, or 128
2012-01-15T23:54:03 < Laurenceb_> which is what i see
--- Day changed Mon Jan 16 2012
2012-01-16T00:13:08 <+Steffanx> "the errata seems to impy that I2C isn't guaranteed to work except in DMA mode or with highest priority interrupts" :S
2012-01-16T00:17:31 <+Steffanx> Which stm32 is that Thorn ?
2012-01-16T00:17:57 <+Steffanx> I don't see anything about it in the f4 errata
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2012-01-16T00:22:05 < Thorn> f1
2012-01-16T00:22:20 < Thorn> and f2 too I believe
2012-01-16T00:23:32 < Thorn> as far as f4 is concerned they haven't yet started the errata for real I guess :)
2012-01-16T00:23:52 <+Steffanx> They have..
2012-01-16T00:23:57 <+Steffanx> Its the same as the F2 :P
2012-01-16T00:25:18 <+Steffanx> I just checked.. it's only in the F1
2012-01-16T00:25:34 <+Steffanx> F2 and F4 have the same errata .. how silly
2012-01-16T00:26:10 < karlp> f4 looks like f2 with the m4 dropped in instead of the m3
2012-01-16T00:26:11 <+Steffanx> And it seems they go from an A revision to a Z revision
2012-01-16T00:27:03 <+Steffanx> Yeah and a little more speed
2012-01-16T00:27:04 <+Steffanx> bit
2012-01-16T00:28:11 <+Steffanx> I didn't know the F2 had enough power to decode mjpeg @ 20 and display it
2012-01-16T00:28:13 <+Steffanx> *20 fps
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2012-01-16T00:50:29 < pepsi> brilliant!
2012-01-16T00:50:31 < obnauticus> !
2012-01-16T00:52:43 < pepsi> so.. im trying to find a compiler that we can use to develop firmware for the stm32.. ST doesn't seem to like GCC, but i know it cant work
2012-01-16T00:53:04 < pepsi> im going to need like 4 or 5 seats, so a commercial compiler could be expensive...
2012-01-16T00:53:07 < BrainDamage> I use gcc just fine
2012-01-16T00:53:28 < karlp> as do I
2012-01-16T00:53:31 <+Steffanx> Het IAR pepsi, you can steal it
2012-01-16T00:53:37 < pepsi> yeah, ive already stolen it
2012-01-16T00:53:41 < pepsi> but i cant do that at work
2012-01-16T00:53:43 <+Steffanx> *Get
2012-01-16T00:53:59 < Thorn> mentor graphics sourcery codebench lite (??)
2012-01-16T00:54:06 < pepsi> anyhow.. we're gunna need an IDE and whatnot, at least for a couple of the developers
2012-01-16T00:54:19 < pepsi> with visual single step debug and stuff
2012-01-16T00:55:06 < pepsi> Steffanx, didnt i already discuss stealing IAR with you? :P
2012-01-16T00:55:12 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-16T00:55:16 <+Steffanx> in #avr
2012-01-16T00:55:19 < pepsi> hehe
2012-01-16T00:55:37 <+Steffanx> CooCox IDE is free, but you need a compatible programmer
2012-01-16T00:55:50 < pepsi> it wont work with like a segger programmer?
2012-01-16T00:56:03 <+Steffanx> I've no idea
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2012-01-16T02:59:49 < zippe1> pepsi: what do you mean "ST doesn't seem to like GCC"?
2012-01-16T03:00:31 < zippe1> They like it just fine
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2012-01-16T04:04:05 < dekar_> pepsi, izua uses VI iirc :P
2012-01-16T04:04:43 < dekar_> I used Qt Creator for most of the time, but lately switched to eclipse for debugging.
2012-01-16T04:05:11 < dekar_> and well, codesourcery as the toolchain
2012-01-16T04:10:28 < pepsi> yeah, id want to use vi, im mostly interested in an environment for debugging
2012-01-16T04:10:35 < pepsi> what kind of tools do you use?
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2012-01-16T04:17:17 < dekar_> Eclipse and GDB
2012-01-16T04:17:59 < dekar_> and the zylincdt plugin
2012-01-16T04:19:47 < Thorn> dave jones recommends max4080f for current sensing
2012-01-16T04:23:55 < pepsi> oh, i mean for hardware
2012-01-16T04:24:02 < pepsi> the programmer
2012-01-16T04:28:57 < Tom_itx> pepsi you goin with arm pic or avr???
2012-01-16T04:29:27 < Tom_itx> and why iar avr?
2012-01-16T04:30:11 < pepsi> arm
2012-01-16T04:30:14 < pepsi> stm32f
2012-01-16T04:30:18 < pepsi> f1
2012-01-16T04:30:31 < pepsi> well
2012-01-16T04:30:33 < pepsi> the avr is cheaper
2012-01-16T04:30:52 < pepsi> so maybe it could end up being avr and an stm32
2012-01-16T04:30:57 < pepsi> dunno
2012-01-16T04:33:41 < pepsi> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=%2Fpublic%2FSTe2ecommunities%2Fmcu%2FLists%2Fcortex_mx_stm32%2FProtection%2C%20Is%20my%20code%20in%20Flash%20really%20secure&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D7580009C4E14902C3CDE46A77F0FFD06506F5B&currentviews=6295
2012-01-16T04:33:53 < pepsi> somehow my browser has that open
2012-01-16T04:33:58 < pepsi> about stm32 security
2012-01-16T04:34:13 < pepsi> can you blow a fuse to disable jtag?
2012-01-16T04:38:43 < Thorn> no fuses
2012-01-16T04:39:11 < Thorn> you can disable it by writing to a register iirc
2012-01-16T04:39:28 < pepsi> that means for however many cycles beforehand, they can use jtag?
2012-01-16T04:39:39 < Thorn> well, setting gpio modes
2012-01-16T04:40:00 < pepsi> i dont understand
2012-01-16T04:42:23 < Thorn> you're correrct, just assert reset right at powerup and you can connect to a jtag cell and set a breakpoint at the reset vector
2012-01-16T04:42:37 < Thorn> there's also a builtin bootloader
2012-01-16T04:48:38 < pepsi> that sounds horrible
2012-01-16T04:49:09 < pepsi> from jtag, you could load code into sram and execute from there, right?
2012-01-16T04:50:08 < Thorn> sure
2012-01-16T04:50:15 < pepsi> so people can steal my code
2012-01-16T04:50:30 < Thorn> you can even remap the vector table into sram
2012-01-16T04:51:24 < pepsi> so are there any fuses at all?
2012-01-16T04:51:48 < Thorn> none at  all
2012-01-16T04:52:06 < pepsi> so my code is not protected at all
2012-01-16T04:53:50 < Thorn> release it under gpl
2012-01-16T04:54:09 < pepsi> uhm
2012-01-16T04:54:17 < Thorn> lol
2012-01-16T04:55:00 < pepsi> sounds like we need to pick some other microcontroller
2012-01-16T04:56:27 < Thorn> there's flash read/write protection
2012-01-16T04:57:16 < pepsi> how does that work?
2012-01-16T05:00:08 < Thorn> see PM0042, and there also was some appnote
2012-01-16T05:01:24 < pepsi> the problem is.. if someone can get into jtag mode
2012-01-16T05:01:37 < pepsi> i dont think i trust it anymore
2012-01-16T05:02:08 < Thorn> that's what it protects the flash from, access in debug mode
2012-01-16T05:02:30 < Thorn> you can still force an unprotect but that will mass erase the flash
2012-01-16T05:05:51 < pepsi> are these protection bits stored in nonvolatile memory?
2012-01-16T05:06:06 < pepsi> and loaded at reset, before someone can use jtag?
2012-01-16T05:07:14 < Thorn> there's special flash (outside the normal flash address space) where these are located
2012-01-16T05:09:42 < Thorn> that thread linked in /topic is useful
2012-01-16T05:10:13 < pepsi> yes, thats the thread i was looking at
2012-01-16T05:10:15 < pepsi> it looks like bad news
2012-01-16T05:12:02 < Thorn> well I fail to see any actual attack (aimed at reading flash) demonstrated there
2012-01-16T05:12:18 < Thorn> you can upload and run arbitrary code via jtag, that's true
2012-01-16T05:12:31 < Thorn> but not actually read the flash out
2012-01-16T05:14:03 < zippe1> pepsi: if protected, yes you can jtag, but the ROM is not readable
2012-01-16T05:14:12 < zippe1> read the appnote
2012-01-16T05:14:33 < zippe1> pepsi: note however that most protected micros can be fairly easily broken
2012-01-16T05:15:00 -!- zippe1 is now known as zippe
2012-01-16T05:15:03 < pepsi> by popping the top off...
2012-01-16T05:15:23 < zippe> yes; several shops will do it all for you in the $20-50k range.
2012-01-16T05:15:40 < pepsi> if it can be done in software, that reduces it quite a bit
2012-01-16T05:15:56 < zippe> It just depends on the threat model
2012-01-16T05:16:19 < zippe> Who are you afraid of having see/steal your code?
2012-01-16T05:16:33 < pepsi> the threat increases substantially if it can breached with software
2012-01-16T05:16:36 < zippe> Is it worth their while to spend that sort of money?
2012-01-16T05:20:32 < Thorn> "Once the protection byte has been programmed: Main Flash memory read access is not allowed except for the user code (when booting from main Flash memory itself with the debug mode not active)."
2012-01-16T05:21:23 < Thorn> this should be enough protection, no?
2012-01-16T05:22:38 < pepsi> maybe
2012-01-16T05:23:13 < Thorn> unless there's an actual bug in this mechanism (of which I'm not aware)
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2012-01-16T17:31:04 < jpa-> codesourcery lite download requires filling out a stupid form now? :S
2012-01-16T17:31:27 < karlp> it's mentor now, not code sourcery remember ;)
2012-01-16T17:33:02 < jpa-> sure
2012-01-16T17:33:07 < jpa-> and mentor sucks, as usual :)
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2012-01-16T18:08:30 < Laurenceb> anyone here got interrupt drive i2c method 2 to work?
2012-01-16T18:08:34 < Laurenceb> *driven
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2012-01-16T19:19:44 < Laurenceb> can anyone link me to the revision A errata?
2012-01-16T19:20:09 <+Steffanx> Of the stm32x xx?
2012-01-16T19:21:09 <+Steffanx> Google your partnumber, click on the st.com result, click on 'design support', click on 'ERRATA SHEETS' and there you go :P
2012-01-16T19:22:42 < Laurenceb> nope
2012-01-16T19:22:49 < Laurenceb> that doesnt have revision A
2012-01-16T19:23:19 <+Steffanx> Which stm32?
2012-01-16T19:23:28 < Laurenceb> stm32f103
2012-01-16T19:23:32 < Laurenceb> medium density
2012-01-16T19:23:44 <+Steffanx> That is .. stm32f103vg ?
2012-01-16T19:24:04 < Laurenceb> erm.. c8bt or something
2012-01-16T19:24:11 < Laurenceb> lqfp-48 one
2012-01-16T19:24:51 <+Steffanx> You have revision A?
2012-01-16T19:25:20 < Laurenceb> C8T6
2012-01-16T19:25:27 < Laurenceb> yes, according to the register
2012-01-16T19:25:31 <+Steffanx> Yes, but why you need the document for rev. A?
2012-01-16T19:26:24 < Laurenceb> to check for errors in the i2c
2012-01-16T19:26:53 < Laurenceb> DBGMCU_BASE says its revision A
2012-01-16T19:29:27 <+Steffanx> Maybe dekar_ has it in his archive..
2012-01-16T19:30:03 < Laurenceb> uint32_t *Type = (uint32_t*)DBGMCU_BASE;
2012-01-16T19:30:07 < Laurenceb> wait is that valid?
2012-01-16T19:30:55 < Laurenceb> doesnt that set the address pointed to by type to DBGMCU_BASE?
2012-01-16T19:36:08 < Laurenceb> no cuz its an assignment
2012-01-16T19:36:11 < Laurenceb> ok i see
2012-01-16T19:36:19 < Laurenceb> yeah i have revision A
2012-01-16T19:38:03 < karlp> last time I read the sheets, the most recent one included the errata for previous revisions as well, and said when it only applied to certain chip revisions
2012-01-16T19:40:41 < Laurenceb> rev A was an early engineering sample. I think it was only given to dev board manufacturers (and some key customers
2012-01-16T19:40:49 < Laurenceb> what the hell? - from the forum
2012-01-16T19:41:01 < Laurenceb> ill have to check me registers more carefully
2012-01-16T19:41:02 < Laurenceb> bbl
2012-01-16T19:41:30 < Laurenceb> maybe farnell somehow got stock
2012-01-16T19:41:52 < karlp> oops, that's a bit of a fuckup somewhere
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2012-01-16T19:58:08 <+izua> oh oh oh
2012-01-16T19:58:09 <+izua> voice
2012-01-16T19:58:11 <+izua> VOIIIICE
2012-01-16T19:58:13 <+izua> I CAN TALK
2012-01-16T19:58:14 <+izua> i'm a +
2012-01-16T19:58:30 <+izua> will you implement a - too?
2012-01-16T19:58:31 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-16T19:58:38 <+izua> oh
2012-01-16T19:58:43 <+Steffanx> You have to power for it
2012-01-16T19:58:51 <+izua> nah, i meant chanserv
2012-01-16T19:58:54 <+izua> he's a cool guy and all
2012-01-16T19:59:01 <+Steffanx> You can implement it :)
2012-01-16T19:59:08 <+izua> hmm
2012-01-16T19:59:16 <+izua> i think it needs a server side scripting
2012-01-16T19:59:40 <+izua> plus, all irc clients would need to know to interpret the -
2012-01-16T20:00:01 <+Steffanx> RFC it
2012-01-16T20:00:07 <+izua> also
2012-01-16T20:00:08 <+izua> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/sopa-derailed/1897
2012-01-16T20:00:21 <+Steffanx> We knows..
2012-01-16T20:00:25 <+izua> my suggestion, as the internet once said, is 'pirate _all_ the things'
2012-01-16T20:00:28 <+izua> with an attached jpg
2012-01-16T20:00:45 <+izua> anyway, hi
2012-01-16T20:01:07 <+Steffanx> Obama also talked about using his Veto for/against another law.. but after all he didn't
2012-01-16T20:01:19 <+Steffanx> don't remember which law
2012-01-16T20:01:43 <+izua> mafiaa can go choke
2012-01-16T20:01:58 <+izua> they were about to sue google when they launched google music
2012-01-16T20:02:02 <+izua> (or i think they did, not sure)
2012-01-16T20:02:24 <+izua> basically, if you put your files on google's server, and google streams them to your devices (thus, you rent space), they want a cut.
2012-01-16T20:02:27 <+Steffanx> You also use the standard arguments?
2012-01-16T20:02:38 <+Steffanx> "There's not good alternative, so I download"?
2012-01-16T20:02:53 <+izua> no, i use the minimal argument
2012-01-16T20:03:00 <+izua> if i wanted to pay, i'm dirt poor
2012-01-16T20:03:20 <+izua> i know only 1 person irl that actually buys software
2012-01-16T20:03:26 <+Steffanx> Me?
2012-01-16T20:03:30 <+Steffanx> oh, irl :p
2012-01-16T20:03:36 <+izua> but he's three digits over my income :P
2012-01-16T20:03:57 <+izua> oh, you're from the netherlands
2012-01-16T20:04:08 <+izua> even if i knew you irl, you'd still not count, cause you can buy hookers and dope
2012-01-16T20:04:09 <+Steffanx> I only pay for software I use more than 1 time/month
2012-01-16T20:04:24 <+izua> makes sense
2012-01-16T20:04:36 <+Steffanx> And it's @#$%^ expensive
2012-01-16T20:04:42 <+Steffanx> (like photoshop)
2012-01-16T20:05:15 <+izua> photoshop is like 3 times the minimum wage here
2012-01-16T20:05:43 <+izua> so wait - you actually bought photoshop?:D
2012-01-16T20:06:10 <+Steffanx> *not
2012-01-16T20:06:16 <+Steffanx> I forgot that world
2012-01-16T20:06:44 <+izua> hehe
2012-01-16T20:07:17 <+izua> anyway, i made grilled beef tenderloin
2012-01-16T20:07:22 <+izua> but i was too lazy to unfreeze it
2012-01-16T20:07:48 <+izua> so i just let it in warm water for ~10 minutes, so i can cut and tenderize it
2012-01-16T20:08:16 <+Steffanx> Let me google
2012-01-16T20:08:35 <+izua> and it became the best beef i ever ate, rare to medium rare, soft on the inside, crusty/grilled on the outside
2012-01-16T20:09:02 <+izua> then again, i did cut it so the frozen portions were inside the piece
2012-01-16T20:09:29 <+Steffanx> So, Fillet of pork is next?
2012-01-16T20:09:54 <+izua> hah, i made that for christmas. pork is a tradition here around that time
2012-01-16T20:10:09 <+izua> you or dekar were the one always cooking with msg?
2012-01-16T20:11:05 <+Steffanx> I never cook with msg :p
2012-01-16T20:15:57 <+izua> aw
2012-01-16T20:16:04 <+izua> i was thinking of trying
2012-01-16T20:16:10 <+Steffanx> What's 'msg'?
2012-01-16T20:16:41 < karlp> magic super good
2012-01-16T20:17:12 <+Steffanx> Whatever that may be
2012-01-16T20:17:53 <+izua> E621/monosodium glutamate
2012-01-16T20:18:04 <+izua> or yeah, magic super good is an equivalent translation
2012-01-16T20:18:18 <+izua> just ran across this https://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-launches-promo-platform-for-artists-120116/
2012-01-16T20:18:19 < karlp> making sweetness grand
2012-01-16T20:18:47 <+izua> this is like piratebay going "fuck you mafiaa, i'm opening my own record label, and it costs nothing to the artists"
2012-01-16T20:19:25 <+Steffanx> Doesn't sound very tasteful izua
2012-01-16T20:19:47 <+izua> a lot of E numbers are actually processed from natural sources
2012-01-16T20:22:17 < karlp> e621 is the magic dust on pringles, doritos, icelandic french fry salt,
2012-01-16T20:22:24 < karlp> just about anything that makes you want lots more of it
2012-01-16T20:22:30 < karlp> it makes anything taste delicious
2012-01-16T20:24:31 <+izua> it's also produced by fermentation of sugar through selected cultures
2012-01-16T20:25:23 <+Steffanx> Maybe karlp … but I don't want food taste like pringles or doritos
2012-01-16T20:26:36 <+izua> it's not supposed to take like pringles or doritos
2012-01-16T20:27:02 <+izua> think what they have in common if you like them, it's essentially the craving for 'more'. apparently it's called umami
2012-01-16T20:27:30 <+Steffanx> I don't need that :)
2012-01-16T20:27:43 <+Steffanx> Or .. i don't need extra of it in my food
2012-01-16T20:37:21 <+izua> Steffanx: that pork fillet thing led me up to a filled pork loin thing
2012-01-16T20:37:23 <+izua> looks pretty epic
2012-01-16T20:54:52 < Thorn> does anybody have any idea how long the PLL clock multiplier takes to to crank up?
2012-01-16T20:55:24 < dekar_> Steffanx, what is in my archive? :D
2012-01-16T20:55:28 < dekar_> izua, hey :D
2012-01-16T20:56:08 <+Steffanx> The errata of the A revision of stm32f103c8 dekar_
2012-01-16T20:56:28 <+izua> dekar_: o/
2012-01-16T20:56:47 <+Steffanx> but that revisions should around so i guess the errata isn't published either
2012-01-16T20:56:53 <+Steffanx> -s
2012-01-16T20:58:52 < dekar_> http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website/STM32%20(ARM%20Cortex%20M3)%20-%2032-bit%20Microcontrollers%20-%20Technical%20Literature%20and%20Support%20Files.html
2012-01-16T20:59:02 < dekar_> dunno, check it out
2012-01-16T21:00:42 <+Steffanx> How do I know the correct path to the document dekar_ ?
2012-01-16T21:00:59 < dekar_> izua, flexbox v2 pcb is in pick'n'place atm :)
2012-01-16T21:01:18 < dekar_> Steffanx, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/st%20website/
2012-01-16T21:01:27 <+Steffanx> Ah ty
2012-01-16T21:01:42 < dekar_> izua, we decided to make 250 :D
2012-01-16T21:02:03 < dekar_> it'll also get some cool brushed aluminum case
2012-01-16T21:03:48 <+izua> wow
2012-01-16T21:03:57 <+izua> told you 'll be ready till january
2012-01-16T21:04:08 <+izua> XD
2012-01-16T21:04:15 <+izua> cases are cool
2012-01-16T21:04:25 <+izua> did you design it, or went with some stock product?
2012-01-16T21:04:43 < dekar_> we have this new EE guy
2012-01-16T21:04:48 < dekar_> he is pretty kickass
2012-01-16T21:05:05 <+izua> ah
2012-01-16T21:05:07 <+izua> a different one?
2012-01-16T21:05:10 < dekar_> yeah
2012-01-16T21:05:18 <+izua> why was the old one sacked?
2012-01-16T21:05:46 < dekar_> he wasn't employed to begin with
2012-01-16T21:05:52 < dekar_> just freelancing
2012-01-16T21:05:58 < dekar_> and he wasn't efficient
2012-01-16T21:06:29 < dekar_> the new one is employed
2012-01-16T21:06:31 < dekar_> he started in january
2012-01-16T21:06:41 < dekar_> and does all kinds of magic with altium :)
2012-01-16T21:08:15 <+izua> oh?
2012-01-16T21:08:19 <+izua> what sort of magic?
2012-01-16T21:08:36 <+izua> pcb traces to act as inductors? :P
2012-01-16T21:11:13 <+izua> moving 20 traces at once while maintaining manual routing 'layout'?
2012-01-16T21:20:15 <+Steffanx> Transformer using PCB trances only
2012-01-16T21:20:25 <+Steffanx> *traces
2012-01-16T21:20:54 <+izua> i bet that's doable
2012-01-16T21:21:12 <+izua> but on two layers is my guess
2012-01-16T21:21:17 <+Steffanx> And not efficient
2012-01-16T21:22:03 <+izua> well
2012-01-16T21:22:07 <+izua> everything to lower costs!
2012-01-16T21:22:16 <+Steffanx> Not really
2012-01-16T21:22:17 <+izua> how is that not efficient white person
2012-01-16T21:22:23 <+izua> sweatshop is good for you
2012-01-16T21:22:33 <+izua> why you rook at me with those big eyes
2012-01-16T21:22:58 <+Steffanx> Sorry, my glasses make my eyes big
2012-01-16T21:27:27 <+izua> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kzSYNpSxNVI/TxPNFA3-h_I/AAAAAAAAUMI/ElCwnJVLZ50/w380/GIF_Little_girl_vs_lion_at_the_zoo.gif
2012-01-16T21:38:35 < dekar_> izua, oh yeah - he showed me weird HF pcb hacks, also how to make conductors in pcb
2012-01-16T21:39:18 < dekar_> he had some weird thing which isolated the trace, but had HF signals pass
2012-01-16T21:39:36 <+izua> a.. filter? :D
2012-01-16T21:39:47 <+izua> still, pretty neat
2012-01-16T21:39:47 < dekar_> I guess
2012-01-16T21:39:53 <+izua> i know nothing about HF PCB design
2012-01-16T21:40:04 < dekar_> he also routed me those XFI signals to some optional SMA connector
2012-01-16T21:40:18 <+izua> neat
2012-01-16T21:40:26 <+Steffanx> I had some classes about it.. but I forgot most if it :P
2012-01-16T21:40:28 <+Steffanx> *of
2012-01-16T21:40:29 <+izua> workingh with someone who understands what you want is kind of epic :P
2012-01-16T21:40:41 < dekar_> XFI is the 10G electrical protocol XFP transceivers use
2012-01-16T21:41:06 <+izua> sounds like you're on your way to a very expensive toy :P
2012-01-16T21:41:19 <+izua> what's the average cost of production/pcs?
2012-01-16T21:41:29 < dekar_> looks really funny, he added tons of holes to both sides of the trace for shielding
2012-01-16T21:41:51 < dekar_> idk, maybe 20??
2012-01-16T21:42:11 < dekar_> the parts are more expensive
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2012-01-16T21:43:42 <+Steffanx> Another dekar
2012-01-16T21:43:42 < dekar__> <dekar_> looks really funny, he added tons of holes to both sides of the trace for shielding
2012-01-16T21:43:42 < dekar__> [20:41]  <dekar_> idk, maybe 20??
2012-01-16T21:43:42 < dekar__> [20:42]  <dekar_> the parts are more expensive
2012-01-16T21:43:42 < dekar__> [20:42]  <dekar_> he added some level translator to allow me to bitbang data over the SFP data line using the STM32
2012-01-16T21:43:51 < dekar__> con lost -.-"
2012-01-16T21:44:17 < dekar__> so my stm32 is able to communicate over 80km optical fibre :)
2012-01-16T21:44:44 <+izua> at a high enough speed to make someone with gigabit at home jealous
2012-01-16T21:44:59 <+Steffanx> sure?
2012-01-16T21:45:09 < dekar__> nope, the stm32 isn't that fast when it comes to bitbang
2012-01-16T21:45:18 < dekar__> probably a few mbit
2012-01-16T21:45:20 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-16T21:45:32 <+izua> well, the fiber link can work at those speeds
2012-01-16T21:45:56 <+izua> oh, you shouldn't bitbang
2012-01-16T21:46:06 < dekar__> what should I do instead?
2012-01-16T21:46:11 <+izua> but hen again, you'd be getting an fpga for talking with those modules, eh?
2012-01-16T21:46:17 < dekar__> yeah
2012-01-16T21:46:19 <+izua> use dedicated hardware :P
2012-01-16T21:46:23 < dekar__> it's just a feature for the flexbox
2012-01-16T21:46:25 <+Steffanx> He has a !@#$%ˆ& expensive board
2012-01-16T21:46:33 <+Steffanx> Lucky bastard
2012-01-16T21:46:35 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@46.115.16.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2012-01-16T21:46:35 <+izua> as in fpgas with dedicated hardware
2012-01-16T21:46:38 <+izua> Steffanx: yes i know >.>
2012-01-16T21:46:56 < dekar__> haven't done much with it so far actually -.-"
2012-01-16T21:47:04 < dekar__> the stm32 stuff kept me busy
2012-01-16T21:47:32 <+Steffanx> Moved to F4 yet? :P
2012-01-16T21:47:38 < dekar__> nope
2012-01-16T21:47:48 < dekar__> just emergency changes for the final hw
2012-01-16T21:48:03 < dekar__> and implementing features according to the new layout
2012-01-16T21:49:41 < dekar__> we moved to some 12mhz smd crystal
2012-01-16T21:49:57 < dekar__> that was a small change
2012-01-16T21:50:06 <+izua> you can now do 144MHz :D
2012-01-16T21:50:28 < dekar__> also trying the final stm32 (I used to use a 128kb flash model) I realized my bootloader code was broken
2012-01-16T21:50:45 < flyback-> you stupid canuck
2012-01-16T21:50:58 < dekar__> izua, probably more, I reached 136mhz using the 8mhz crystal
2012-01-16T21:50:58 <+Steffanx> YANKIE
2012-01-16T21:51:09 <+Steffanx> F1?
2012-01-16T21:51:15 < dekar__> F1 yeah
2012-01-16T21:51:28 <+Steffanx> Go F4 and god to 400 :P
2012-01-16T21:51:31 <+Steffanx> *go
2012-01-16T21:51:38 < dekar__> will do when I have spare time
2012-01-16T21:51:43  * flyback- still hasn't done anything with his f4 yet
2012-01-16T21:51:55 < flyback-> dekar__: btw stm only wants $14.90 for the f4 discovery
2012-01-16T21:51:59 < flyback-> not bad at all
2012-01-16T21:52:04 < dekar__> izua, that EE guy wants to manufacture tegra3 boards for us now O.o
2012-01-16T21:52:15 < flyback-> mmm
2012-01-16T21:52:16 <+Steffanx> He doesn't pay for hw himself flyback- :P
2012-01-16T21:52:21 < dekar__> flyback-, don't care, using the companies credit card anyway
2012-01-16T21:52:30 < flyback-> nice
2012-01-16T21:52:46 <+Steffanx> He makes us jealous all the time :(
2012-01-16T21:52:56 < flyback-> it is a cheap chip though like $17 low quanty 11 in 1000 and up
2012-01-16T21:53:12 < flyback-> dekar what's it for
2012-01-16T21:53:21 < dekar__> for a vending machine
2012-01-16T21:53:37 < flyback-> oh yeah it could handle that for sure
2012-01-16T21:53:40 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-16T21:53:48 < dekar__> we have this spin off company working on an internet enabled touchscreen vending machine
2012-01-16T21:53:54 < dekar__> they want it to run android
2012-01-16T21:54:02 < flyback-> not a bad idea
2012-01-16T21:54:18 < dekar__> they tried and dismissed a lot of hardware so far, that's how I got my panda board for free :)
2012-01-16T21:54:25 < flyback-> heheeh
2012-01-16T21:54:38 < dekar__> I'd have used the OMAP4, it's a great SoC
2012-01-16T21:54:55 < dekar__> but tegra3 isn't bad as well ofc
2012-01-16T21:55:03 < dekar__> dunno why they want that much power though
2012-01-16T21:55:04 < flyback-> yeah some of these soc's are pretty damn amazing
2012-01-16T21:55:07 < flyback-> even the low end ones
2012-01-16T21:55:23 < flyback-> mabye they are planning on crypto to protect the machine
2012-01-16T21:55:50 < dekar__> I made some Qt test app with lots of 2d animations and it ran fine on my android single core phone, even underclocked to 700mhz
2012-01-16T21:55:51 < Laurenceb_> heh youll need plausible identifiability
2012-01-16T21:56:15 < flyback-> not to mention fun fucking with people who are fucking with the machine
2012-01-16T21:56:41 < dekar__> I have some android app that makes the vending machine give me stuff for free :D
2012-01-16T21:57:05 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: BrainDamage
2012-01-16T21:59:30 < flyback-> has anyone played with th FPU or MPU in the stm32f4
2012-01-16T21:59:44 -!- BrainDamage [BrainDamag@i.love.tiltshellz.org] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-16T21:59:51 <+izua> dekar__: your gearomat?
2012-01-16T21:59:53 <+izua> god damn it
2012-01-16T22:00:11 < dekar__> not mine, but yeah the gearOmat thing :)
2012-01-16T22:01:55 < dekar__> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5488951550_bf428c5e01.jpg
2012-01-16T22:26:28 <+izua> yeah i get it
2012-01-16T22:26:31 <+izua> backsploit :P
2012-01-16T22:27:19 < dekar__> izua, it was actually made for demonstration purposes
2012-01-16T22:27:30 < dekar__> but I like the free peanuts as well :)
2012-01-16T22:37:57 -!- phantoxe [~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-16T22:42:31 < Laurenceb_> ok i cant read the silicon revision from running software
2012-01-16T22:42:40 < Laurenceb_> that explains why i get 0
2012-01-16T22:42:56 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-16T22:43:54 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@46.115.40.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2012-01-16T22:45:46 < Laurenceb_> but not why my i2c is screwed
2012-01-16T22:46:06 < Laurenceb_> i dont see the error im getting in the errata
2012-01-16T22:55:23 -!- dekar [~dekar@46.115.40.241] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-16T22:56:22 < Laurenceb_> the hadrware only generates txe interrupts in TX mode right?
2012-01-16T22:58:58 < Laurenceb_> it must work like that or its give constant TXE interrupts?
2012-01-16T22:59:18 -!- peabody124 [~peabody12@46-253-178-67.dynamic.monzoon.net] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-16T23:00:57 < Laurenceb_> peabody124: ping
2012-01-16T23:01:07 < Laurenceb_> ive got i2c issues
2012-01-16T23:05:49 < Laurenceb_> do you set acknoledgeconfig for the address byte?
2012-01-16T23:05:56 < Laurenceb_> nvm ill try changing my code
2012-01-16T23:06:50 < Laurenceb_> it seems the lsb of each byte is jammed/corrupted
2012-01-16T23:39:03 -!- izua [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
--- Day changed Tue Jan 17 2012
2012-01-17T00:03:23 -!- peabody124 [~peabody12@46-253-178-67.dynamic.monzoon.net] has quit [Quit: peabody124]
2012-01-17T00:03:30 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@2.208.232.169] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-17T00:06:49 -!- dekar [~dekar@46.115.40.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2012-01-17T00:08:24 < Laurenceb_> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/AllItems.aspx
2012-01-17T00:08:35 < Laurenceb_> ive posted it there
2012-01-17T00:20:35 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@2.208.232.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2012-01-17T00:40:55 -!- dekar [~dekar@2.208.232.169] has joined ##stm32
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2012-01-17T00:41:40 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v izua] by ChanServ
2012-01-17T00:44:03 <+Steffanx> that st community sucks sooo hard Laurenceb_ ..
2012-01-17T00:44:24 < Thorn> long promised pivture of my project and pcbs http://i.imgur.com/DWn01.jpg
2012-01-17T00:44:32 < Thorn> *picture
2012-01-17T00:44:56 <+Steffanx> LEDs :D
2012-01-17T00:45:28 <+Steffanx> I have to say.. i still don't like those weird angles
2012-01-17T00:45:31 <+Steffanx> of the traces
2012-01-17T00:46:28 < Thorn> well if this really is the worst error then I'll take it as a compliment if you don't mind :)
2012-01-17T00:46:34 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-17T00:46:40 <+Steffanx> You are allowed to do that
2012-01-17T00:46:52 < Thorn> thanks :)
2012-01-17T00:47:00 <+Steffanx> And next time get smd xtals
2012-01-17T00:47:35 < Thorn> I've got like 10 baggies of through hole ones
2012-01-17T00:47:50 <+Steffanx> Get 10 baggies of smd xtals
2012-01-17T00:47:52 < Thorn> not running out of them any time soon
2012-01-17T00:48:06 <+Steffanx> Especially the 5x3mm xtals or maybe even smaller are nice
2012-01-17T00:48:42 <+Steffanx> You used EAGLE?
2012-01-17T00:48:54 < Thorn> why? for layout reasons?
2012-01-17T00:48:58 < Thorn> nope, diptrace
2012-01-17T00:49:12 <+Steffanx> diptrace.. can you work with that?!
2012-01-17T00:49:22 < Thorn> as you can see :)
2012-01-17T00:49:30 <+Steffanx> No, they are nice because they are tiny-ish
2012-01-17T00:50:05 <+Steffanx> The board came from seeed isn't it?
2012-01-17T00:50:22 <+Steffanx> *aren't they (or whatever)
2012-01-17T00:50:36 < Thorn> yes seeed
2012-01-17T00:50:53 <+Steffanx> So Tom_itx .. see the photo's
2012-01-17T00:50:59 <+Steffanx> Nothing wrong with the silk
2012-01-17T00:51:13 < Thorn> nothing at all
2012-01-17T00:51:26 <+Steffanx> Tom_itx complained about it
2012-01-17T00:51:54 <+izua> Thorn: what does it do?
2012-01-17T00:52:05 <+Steffanx> read the silk izua :)
2012-01-17T00:52:18 <+izua> oh
2012-01-17T00:52:24 <+izua> ft2232 breakout
2012-01-17T00:52:36 < Thorn> usb 2.0 -> 2x rs232, rs485, can (not yet assembled)
2012-01-17T00:52:47 <+izua> i planned on making a scope/analyzer thingie for the ft232/ft245 chip
2012-01-17T00:53:05 <+izua> 245 would probably be better, since you can control the fifo much better
2012-01-17T00:53:09 <+izua> the one on ft232 is just.. jumpy
2012-01-17T00:53:14 <+Steffanx> 2232 is even better ..
2012-01-17T00:53:19 < Thorn> take a look at 2232
2012-01-17T00:53:21 < Thorn> right
2012-01-17T00:53:22 <+izua> it is, but it's much more expensive
2012-01-17T00:53:29 <+Steffanx> Money money money ..
2012-01-17T00:53:33 <+izua> and you can do a lot of those neat stuff in software
2012-01-17T00:53:37 <+izua> ie, SPI/I2C engine
2012-01-17T00:53:48 <+izua> but it does have more extra pins, thus, more GPIO!
2012-01-17T00:54:10 <+izua> but i think this will be rather worthless soon, for example, when the raspberry pi comes out
2012-01-17T00:54:17 < Thorn> that's what I'm going to do next, can via spi (need config flash for that)
2012-01-17T00:54:31 <+Steffanx> Oh, i didn't know the chip was THAT expensive
2012-01-17T00:54:31 <+izua> everybody will have a s**tton of gpio and a board that can run python and whatnot
2012-01-17T00:54:47 <+izua> yeah, it's really fexpensive for what it does
2012-01-17T00:55:06 <+izua> you can just do all those things in software, and configure the chip as parallel IO
2012-01-17T00:55:29 < Thorn> expensive? take a look at  the price of their host chips :)
2012-01-17T00:56:08 <+Steffanx> I once bought a host chip module from ftdi
2012-01-17T00:56:13 <+Steffanx> Actually never used it :p
2012-01-17T00:56:25 <+izua> same for a ft2232 :P
2012-01-17T00:56:29 <+izua> said i'd do lots of cool with it
2012-01-17T00:56:36 <+izua> always ended up using a ft232 anyway
2012-01-17T00:56:54 <+izua> and ft245 is way cooler, at least, if you can append data to its fifo and it won't glitch
2012-01-17T00:58:03 < Thorn> now it's time to actually do an stm32 project
2012-01-17T00:58:25 < Thorn> waiting a month for the pcbs sucks
2012-01-17T00:58:25 <+Steffanx> With ethernet and linux? :p
2012-01-17T00:59:10 < Thorn> I'm not someone who'd run linux on a mcu :)
2012-01-17T00:59:22 <+izua> Steffanx: any opinions on the raspberry, since i already mentioned it?
2012-01-17T00:59:34 <+Steffanx> Yeah, I still want one
2012-01-17T01:00:01 <+izua> not the answer i was expecting, but eh
2012-01-17T01:00:02 <+izua> :P
2012-01-17T01:00:27 <+Steffanx> I've been waiting for it since the first day the announced it
2012-01-17T01:00:40 <+Steffanx> but it's a little slowish compared to the modern arms
2012-01-17T01:00:42 <+Steffanx> ARMs
2012-01-17T01:01:49 <+izua> i think you're viewing this wrong
2012-01-17T01:01:56 < Thorn> sharpened a little http://i.imgur.com/njwtl.jpg
2012-01-17T01:02:11 <+izua> it's the cheapest/fastest devel around that can run a fullblown linux :P
2012-01-17T01:02:13 <+Steffanx> I want moaar speed
2012-01-17T01:02:31 <+izua> for what? :P
2012-01-17T01:02:40 <+Steffanx> Don't know
2012-01-17T01:02:48 <+izua> makes sense.
2012-01-17T01:03:05 <+Steffanx> Image processing?
2012-01-17T01:03:08 <+Steffanx> Stuff like that
2012-01-17T01:04:53 <+Steffanx> You?
2012-01-17T01:05:55 <+izua> ah
2012-01-17T01:06:04 <+izua> more than power enough for me :P
2012-01-17T01:06:19 <+izua> automations, mostly
2012-01-17T01:06:20 <+Steffanx> What the plan with it?
2012-01-17T01:06:52 <+izua> i came to the conclusion that it's easier to just grab a cheap computer with a paraport and write desktop software (for complex stuff) than mess with an actual mcu, and let mcu just do gpio/speciality signals
2012-01-17T01:07:03 <+izua> but this is the epitome of epic
2012-01-17T01:07:24 <+Steffanx> They made the kernel drivers for the gpio for you, so .. :D
2012-01-17T01:07:32 <+izua> no paraport - but a standard gpio header, cheaper than a devboard, no assembly required
2012-01-17T01:07:38 <+izua> yeah, i know
2012-01-17T01:07:48 <+izua> i messed with them quite a bit on a different board some time ago
2012-01-17T01:07:53 <+izua> i think it was a beagle clone or the like
2012-01-17T01:10:28 <+Steffanx> Anyway => sleep
2012-01-17T01:11:07 < Thorn> btw, found dream displays http://www.newhavendisplay.com/
2012-01-17T01:11:27 < Thorn> well they're a lot like winstar but 3.3V and I2C
2012-01-17T01:11:35 < Thorn> some have RGB backlight
2012-01-17T01:12:43 <+Steffanx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/330547348061?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_4023wt_905 .. cheap lcd's too :P
2012-01-17T01:12:47 <+Steffanx> 0.99$
2012-01-17T01:13:39 <+Steffanx> What about shipping Thorn ?
2012-01-17T01:14:15 < Thorn> no idea, they ship worldwide but don't publish international rates
2012-01-17T01:16:28 <+Steffanx> COG displays are nice
2012-01-17T01:24:42 <+izua> heh
2012-01-17T01:24:53 <+izua> hooking a raspberry to a 16x2
2012-01-17T01:25:02 <+izua> when it can do full HD
2012-01-17T01:25:08 < Thorn> with 8 data wires
2012-01-17T01:25:23 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2012-01-17T01:25:28 <+izua> oh lookie
2012-01-17T01:25:34 <+izua> 3v3 on the data lines
2012-01-17T01:25:48 < pepsi_> nice
2012-01-17T01:25:56 <+izua> yeah, i haven't seen one of those in quite a while
2012-01-17T01:25:59 < pepsi_> those 5V lcd's are becoming a pain nowadays
2012-01-17T01:26:47 < Thorn> 5V and useless 4/8 wire (+2 control) interface too
2012-01-17T01:28:47 <+izua> they might be a pain, but they're industry standard
2012-01-17T01:28:57 <+izua> well, de facto
2012-01-17T01:29:09 < Thorn> ISO standard PITA
2012-01-17T01:29:20 <+izua> :D
2012-01-17T01:29:25 < Thorn> would still be PITA
2012-01-17T01:39:39 <+izua> still better than sopa
2012-01-17T01:45:04 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-01-17T01:49:50 < pepsi_> can i copy some code to sram and execute it out of sram? like if i want a fast interrupt handler?
2012-01-17T01:50:37 < Thorn> yes you can
2012-01-17T01:50:52 < Thorn> not sure about the speed advantage though
2012-01-17T01:51:44 < pepsi_> so.. if i choose to boot into sram
2012-01-17T01:51:48 < pepsi_> i can then jump into flash
2012-01-17T01:52:06 < pepsi_> the stm32 seems quite hackable
2012-01-17T01:52:13 < pepsi_> it makes me sad
2012-01-17T01:53:18 < pepsi_> so.. say i have some code flashed into my stm32.. a competitor enters jtag mode on reset, loads some code into sram that will jump into the flash
2012-01-17T01:53:35 < pepsi_> they can then find interesting portions of my code
2012-01-17T01:53:53 < pepsi_> whether or not they can directly read the flash
2012-01-17T01:54:27 < pepsi_> they could possibly find a location where i read from flash
2012-01-17T01:54:41 < Thorn> I think if you *boot* from sram then flash is not accessible, at least the PM seems to say that
2012-01-17T01:55:26 < pepsi_> im going to be speaking with an ST FAE tomorrow about all this stuff
2012-01-17T01:55:38 < pepsi_> just trying to prepare myself
2012-01-17T01:55:51 < Thorn> that's the best thing
2012-01-17T01:56:33 < Thorn> tell us what their reply was then :)
2012-01-17T01:56:56 < pepsi_> Atmel's M3 offering makes security much more straightforward... if protection is enabled, you can't do a damn thing in jtag mode except erase the device.. you can read/write sram, or flash, or the core registers, or even peripherals
2012-01-17T01:57:16 < pepsi_> er you cant
2012-01-17T01:58:04 < pepsi_> whereas ST's security is kinda roundabout.. like a bandaid solution
2012-01-17T01:58:09 < pepsi_> instead of just plain locking my ass out
2012-01-17T01:58:35 <+izua> pepsi_: http://turbo.paulstamatiou.com/uploads/2007/03/outpost_firewall_review1.jpg
2012-01-17T01:58:53 < Thorn> well with sram based fpgas you may not even have that
2012-01-17T01:58:53 < pepsi_> exactly
2012-01-17T01:59:05 <+izua> it's sad
2012-01-17T01:59:21 <+izua> apart from some silly bugs, stm32 is a really neat family
2012-01-17T01:59:40 < pepsi_> yeah, and i got a really sweet quote on them
2012-01-17T01:59:47 <+izua> hardware aside, just the way footprint compatibility and memory assignment for hardware works is epic
2012-01-17T02:00:17 < pepsi_> but if someone can grab my code by software means.. no thanks
2012-01-17T02:00:36 < pepsi_> at least make my competitor pay to rip the top off and play with a fancy microscope
2012-01-17T02:00:39 <+izua> just swap in a different chip on the same pcb, and you can even have the software selectively make use of it
2012-01-17T02:00:40 < pepsi_> jeez
2012-01-17T02:00:40 < Thorn> yeah compatibility within families is great. just too many of them in f1 lol
2012-01-17T02:00:55 <+izua> neah
2012-01-17T02:00:57 <+izua> they come from china
2012-01-17T02:01:05 <+izua> that would be against their tradition, would it not?
2012-01-17T02:01:28 < pepsi_> st is from china? huh?
2012-01-17T02:02:32 <+izua> not sure, but that's what how some phrasing/grammar on their website/datasheets make me think
2012-01-17T02:02:37 < Thorn> st is european
2012-01-17T02:02:49 < Thorn> employees, on the other hand...
2012-01-17T02:02:50 <+izua> mh, ericsson i think?
2012-01-17T02:02:54 <+izua> not really sure
2012-01-17T02:03:17 < Thorn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STMicroelectronics
2012-01-17T02:03:22 < pepsi_> yeah, maybe some of what scares me is the wording and description of the protection features
2012-01-17T02:03:53 < pepsi_> they need to come out and say it
2012-01-17T02:04:03 < pepsi_> not give me bits and pieces in several paragraphs
2012-01-17T02:23:05 < dekar> izua, stay away from that ftdi crap -.-
2012-01-17T02:23:19 <+izua> come on
2012-01-17T02:23:28 < dekar> seriously, scope their i2c and you'll never wanna use it
2012-01-17T02:23:35 <+izua> the 425 or whatever the parallel chip is, should be rpetty decent
2012-01-17T02:23:48 <+izua> ah, i don't care about the ft2232
2012-01-17T02:23:54 < dekar> flexbox1 is based on an ft2232c I think
2012-01-17T02:24:01 < dekar> hm okay
2012-01-17T02:24:02 <+izua> yep
2012-01-17T02:24:06 <+izua> and it's wonderful
2012-01-17T02:24:09 <+izua> from your experience
2012-01-17T02:24:11 <+izua> \and i fully agree
2012-01-17T02:24:12 < dekar> just use an stm32 :)
2012-01-17T02:24:22 <+izua> mh, indeed
2012-01-17T02:24:27 <+izua> it's probably cheaper too
2012-01-17T02:24:29 < dekar> just better
2012-01-17T02:24:35 < Thorn> 2232c is previous generation, d/h is current
2012-01-17T02:24:54 < dekar> Thorn, 2232d is just lead free iirc
2012-01-17T02:25:00 < dekar> 2232h is actually better
2012-01-17T02:25:04 < dekar> but it still sucks
2012-01-17T02:25:06 <+izua> but it needs professional boards (can't get those tolerances at home with good repetability) and there's a small chance you can fuck up soldering
2012-01-17T02:25:07 < dekar> I have one
2012-01-17T02:25:18 <+izua> the ftdi chips have the pin distance at 0.65 :D
2012-01-17T02:25:22 < dekar> the official ftdi ft2232h breakout thingy
2012-01-17T02:25:51 < Thorn> I have one too now, just not the official one :)
2012-01-17T02:26:01 < dekar> izua, I had our EE guy remove the stm32 from one of those futurlec boards and solder me another one
2012-01-17T02:26:22 < dekar> he used some hot air smd station I think
2012-01-17T02:26:27 <+izua> yeah
2012-01-17T02:26:34 < dekar> looks so awesome, I can't see any difference
2012-01-17T02:26:36 <+izua> professional boards
2012-01-17T02:26:38 <+izua> not soldering
2012-01-17T02:26:48 <+izua> kind of proves my point :P
2012-01-17T02:27:14 < dekar> so order proper boards?
2012-01-17T02:28:04 <+izua> the rest of us mortals have to share the money we use for everyday living and such _WITH_ the actual boards for toying around with electronics :o
2012-01-17T02:28:17 <+izua> i will, but you know me :P
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2012-01-17T02:30:53 <+izua> say hi to your isp for me
2012-01-17T02:31:11 < dekar_> nah, that was caused by me
2012-01-17T02:31:22 < dekar_> switching from wifi tether to bluetooth tether
2012-01-17T02:31:28 < dekar_> still my iso is fucked up
2012-01-17T02:31:38 < dekar_> I switched to a new one - 50mbit/s
2012-01-17T02:31:44 < dekar_> they failed to deliver
2012-01-17T02:31:46 <+izua> ah, neato
2012-01-17T02:31:47 < dekar_> still charged me
2012-01-17T02:31:49 < dekar_> -.-
2012-01-17T02:31:56 <+izua> how much?
2012-01-17T02:32:02 < dekar_> 50? I think
2012-01-17T02:32:06 <+izua> wow
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2012-01-17T02:32:17 <+izua> i think guaranteed bandwidth only applies in metro
2012-01-17T02:32:18 < dekar_> I told them to return it till january the 30th or I'll get mad
2012-01-17T02:32:32 <+izua> not worldwide :P
2012-01-17T02:32:51 < dekar_> well they charged me 50?, never even got an invoice
2012-01-17T02:33:09 < dekar_> they told me I could see it online, I told them I would do once they give me internet
2012-01-17T02:33:19 <+izua> hehehe
2012-01-17T02:34:03 < dekar_> they lately told me some crap about be having to pay for 3mbit/s for the next 2 years
2012-01-17T02:34:10 < dekar_> *me having
2012-01-17T02:34:22 < dekar_> I guess they should start reading their contract
2012-01-17T02:34:28 <+izua> hmph, they locked you in a 2 year contract?
2012-01-17T02:34:36 < dekar_> anyway, since they fucked up and failed to deliver I ordered cable as well
2012-01-17T02:34:39 < dekar_> 32mbit/s
2012-01-17T02:34:55 < dekar_> they think they locked me, wanna see them try getting my money
2012-01-17T02:35:16 < dekar_> in germany you can reverse wire transfers
2012-01-17T02:35:21 < dekar_> I will do that at the end of the month
2012-01-17T02:35:34 < dekar_> wich is expensive for them, the banks charge additional fees
2012-01-17T02:35:50 <+izua> ouch
2012-01-17T02:36:01 < dekar_> I don't think they'd dare taking any legal actions, I mean I have no internet and no telephone
2012-01-17T02:36:08 < dekar_> I told them to deliver several times
2012-01-17T02:36:19 < dekar_> they just fucked up and now they try to annoy me
2012-01-17T02:36:22 < dekar_> w/e
2012-01-17T02:36:25 <+izua> "i have no internet"
2012-01-17T02:36:29 <+izua> said dekar on irc
2012-01-17T02:36:33 < dekar_> :D
2012-01-17T02:36:34 <+izua> made me chuckle
2012-01-17T02:36:37 < dekar_> yeah via 3g
2012-01-17T02:36:55 < dekar_> I realized my 100mb/mo 3g contract doesn't throttle
2012-01-17T02:37:03 < dekar_> I'm probably at 50GB already
2012-01-17T02:37:09 < dekar_> pretty neat
2012-01-17T02:37:14 < dekar_> it's only 5?/mo
2012-01-17T02:37:49 < dekar_> so I'll use that for now, till I get the cable
2012-01-17T02:38:42 < dekar_> izua, did I tell you I got a free phone? :)
2012-01-17T02:38:51 < dekar_> htc desire Z
2012-01-17T02:39:00 < dekar_> I oc'ed it to 2ghz :)
2012-01-17T02:39:59 < dekar_> btw zlog is broken
2012-01-17T02:40:00 <+izua> o_O
2012-01-17T02:40:01 <+izua> why
2012-01-17T02:40:06 <+izua> why did you get a free phone
2012-01-17T02:40:39 < dekar_> I was telling my boss how hard it sucked for like a year, so he got a galaxy nexus
2012-01-17T02:40:49 <+izua> oh lol
2012-01-17T02:41:02 <+izua> dammit you're a manipulative one
2012-01-17T02:41:31 < dekar_> once I got it I was like "wow it actually sucks at 800mhz, let's OC it!"
2012-01-17T02:41:53 < dekar_> izua, http://dekar.wc3edit.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/screenshot-1325394929557.png
2012-01-17T02:42:02 < dekar_> I think I broke some world record or something
2012-01-17T02:42:27 < dekar_> had to up the voltage from 0.9V to 1.5V
2012-01-17T02:43:18 <+izua> did it heat up?
2012-01-17T02:43:24 < dekar_> hell yeah
2012-01-17T02:43:29 <+izua> :D
2012-01-17T02:43:35 < dekar_> :D
2012-01-17T02:43:35 <+izua> that's the spirit
2012-01-17T02:43:43 <+izua> easy come, easy go xD
2012-01-17T02:44:58 <+izua> bbiab
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2012-01-17T02:46:18 < Thorn> so what exactly is wrong with ft2232?
2012-01-17T02:47:06 < dekar_> we have a product based on it, using it as i2c to usb adapter
2012-01-17T02:47:13 < dekar_> and the i2c is seriously fucked up
2012-01-17T02:47:48 < dekar_> it just randomly pauses for like half a second in the middle of a transaction and so on
2012-01-17T02:48:03 < dekar_> that's what happens when you bitbang via usb
2012-01-17T02:48:08 < Thorn> I hope SPI is okay, I'm planning to use it
2012-01-17T02:48:23 < dekar_> i2c is okay for about 95% of the slaves
2012-01-17T02:48:38 < dekar_> our product has to connect with a wide variety of slaves though
2012-01-17T02:48:48 < dekar_> and some even crash
2012-01-17T02:49:01 < dekar_> lock up
2012-01-17T02:49:54 < dekar_> I mean it's probably still i2c compliant for the host to stretch the clock for 500ms, but it's still a fucked up implementation
2012-01-17T02:50:13 < Thorn> maybe it's usb bus contention?
2012-01-17T02:50:53 < dekar_> we tell our customers to remove any usb hubs, or add usb hubs if they aren't using any
2012-01-17T02:51:00 < dekar_> close all running applications
2012-01-17T02:51:14 < dekar_> or run windows media player (changes some windows kernel settings for realtime)
2012-01-17T02:51:25 < dekar_> it's just fucked up
2012-01-17T02:51:30 < Thorn> I'd tell them to unplug all usb devices except a keyboard (maybe)
2012-01-17T02:51:46 < dekar_> but it really depends, I have seen it getting better with hub
2012-01-17T02:51:52 < dekar_> also getting worse with hub
2012-01-17T02:51:57 < dekar_> it's pretty random
2012-01-17T02:52:08 < dekar_> depends on the usb controller mostly, and the load
2012-01-17T02:52:26 < dekar_> if you use an USB hdd at the same time it never works properly XD
2012-01-17T02:52:54 < dekar_> we shipped about 100 of those and most of them work? somehow
2012-01-17T02:53:02 < Thorn> that would make sense, it floods the bus (although bulk transfers have lowest priority iirc)
2012-01-17T02:53:13 < dekar_> the new generation is based on the stm32 and we'll make 250 for the first run
2012-01-17T02:53:24 < dekar_> if customers have any further problems we'll just replace it
2012-01-17T02:54:00 < dekar_> I guess FTDI should have used an interrupt endpoint for guaranteed throughput
2012-01-17T02:54:18 < Thorn> isn't that fixed by HID standard?
2012-01-17T02:54:35 < dekar_> it is, but FT2232 aren't HID devices
2012-01-17T02:55:25 < Thorn> ah right, in this mode they aren't any more. hid is only used for rs232 emulation (?)
2012-01-17T02:55:41 < dekar_> my stm32 implementation is HID, it just copies everything over and once it is in RAM the ?C starts working
2012-01-17T02:56:02 < dekar_> Thorn, I don't think the FT2232 ever uses HID
2012-01-17T02:56:13 < dekar_> windows ships with the proprietary FTDIChip driver
2012-01-17T02:56:52 < dekar_> that's why they work out of the box
2012-01-17T02:58:21 < Thorn> I have the sysinternals package, maybe there's some program in it that can enumerate usb devices
2012-01-17T02:59:36 < dekar_> try HIDAPI (I love the way that sounds? japanese :D) it comes with an awesome test tool
2012-01-17T03:00:32 < dekar_> hidapi is great btw
2012-01-17T03:00:47 < dekar_> only took me like an hour to port my app from libusb to hidapi
2012-01-17T03:03:06 < Thorn> interesting, never heard about hidapi before
2012-01-17T03:04:25 < dekar_> it's really awesome, even supports using libusb as its backend
2012-01-17T03:04:46 < dekar_> also supports hidraw as well as the native ones on windows and osx
2012-01-17T03:04:58 < dekar_> did I mention it has sane licenses?
2012-01-17T03:06:24 < dekar_> anyway I'll get some sleep now
2012-01-17T03:07:09 < Thorn> yeah, me too
2012-01-17T03:07:15 < Thorn> thanks and good night
2012-01-17T03:08:05 < dekar_> night
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2012-01-17T05:10:29  * flyback- just solved one of the 2-3 main problems with this "windows 2003 server" at work, woooohooo
2012-01-17T05:18:20  * flyback- bbl
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2012-01-17T11:13:29 < ColdStart> hi
2012-01-17T11:16:07 < ColdStart> are there any free debug tools which would be able to simulate/debug STM32 peripherals?
2012-01-17T11:18:32  * grummund wouldn't bother with simulation, and rarely bother with debugger either.
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2012-01-17T11:19:12 < ColdStart> if one develops timing critical interface with another chip or FPGA then one needs to bother about that
2012-01-17T11:19:14 < ColdStart> to be sure
2012-01-17T11:19:29 < ColdStart> before starting the whole process of board development and interconnect
2012-01-17T11:19:49 < grummund> um, not really.
2012-01-17T11:20:09 < ColdStart> if i care about every clock cycle
2012-01-17T11:20:18 < ColdStart> and precise timing and delays
2012-01-17T11:20:32 < grummund> then you wouldn't use a debugger :P
2012-01-17T11:20:42 < ColdStart> well simulator
2012-01-17T11:21:06 < grummund> no oscilloscope?
2012-01-17T11:21:12 < ColdStart> of course one can get data from datasheets, but sometimes things are not that explicit there
2012-01-17T11:21:21 < ColdStart> i do have scope
2012-01-17T11:21:23 < ColdStart> but
2012-01-17T11:21:31 < ColdStart> im talking about doing it before project started
2012-01-17T11:21:50 < ColdStart> because if you figure out that your chip cant do specific things after board is done is not good
2012-01-17T11:21:56 < ColdStart> or disaster actually
2012-01-17T11:22:17 < ColdStart> however..yes i can approximate things too
2012-01-17T11:22:20 < ColdStart> but just was wondering
2012-01-17T11:22:45 < grummund> code simulators can often be buggy too
2012-01-17T11:23:03 < ColdStart> so did you build from scratch gnu-arm Cygwin under winXp?
2012-01-17T11:23:26 < grummund> no it is available pre-built from cygwinports
2012-01-17T11:24:17 < ColdStart> hmm
2012-01-17T11:24:33 < grummund> i'm not saying it is the way to go, but if you already use Cygwin then it's a definite option.
2012-01-17T11:24:44 < ColdStart> im not using cygwin yet
2012-01-17T11:24:59 < ColdStart> i see that setup.exe installer from cygwin ports project
2012-01-17T11:25:09 < ColdStart> so...basically you install it, and the whole thing is there?
2012-01-17T11:25:13 < ColdStart> anything else needed?
2012-01-17T11:25:15 < grummund> look at raisonance then, that's what most here seem to be using.
2012-01-17T11:25:40 < ColdStart> its not free
2012-01-17T11:25:55 < grummund> are you familiar with Linux and package managers?
2012-01-17T11:26:07 < ColdStart> kind of, im using Linux for my desktop
2012-01-17T11:26:26 < ColdStart> but stm32 stuff i plan to deploy on winXP machine
2012-01-17T11:26:48 < ColdStart> thats why i asked, is installing that cygwin ports stuff is just enough and gnu-arm tools ready or no?
2012-01-17T11:27:27 < grummund> Cygwin basically provides the tools and utilities you would expect on Linux
2012-01-17T11:27:39 < grummund> like a Bash shell, command line utilities, etc.
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2012-01-17T11:48:03 < karlp> if you're not already using cygiwn, I would not recommend starting.
2012-01-17T11:52:07 < grummund> agreed.  unless you already quite confident with Linux & command line.
2012-01-17T12:30:37 < karlp> and quite confident with building on windows.
2012-01-17T12:31:04 < karlp> cygwin normally ends up being almost linux, but having to know so much about windows _and_ linux to work around whatever was _meant_ to work, but doesn't quite.
2012-01-17T12:31:23 < karlp> VMs are the way to go, imo.
2012-01-17T12:35:29 < grummund> very true.  but for me cygwin is just a slick way to have bash within a windows environment.
2012-01-17T12:35:47 < karlp> fair enough.
2012-01-17T12:36:05 < karlp> I went witn unxutils to get most of the tools,
2012-01-17T12:36:33 < karlp> I found cygwin's worldview of /cygdrive/blah stuff to be more trouble than it was worth, ended up just learning more about cmd.exe
2012-01-17T12:36:46 < karlp> then I went and replaced windows with linux wholescale,
2012-01-17T12:36:54 < karlp> now I have bash all the time.
2012-01-17T13:23:31 < Laurenceb> heh
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2012-01-17T18:39:26 < Laurenceb> can anyone try some code for me?
2012-01-17T18:39:44 < Laurenceb> i have issues with i2c
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2012-01-17T18:57:44 < karlp> what sort of things do I need to run it for you?
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2012-01-17T19:03:31 < Laurenceb> just try some i2c code
2012-01-17T19:03:42 < Laurenceb> i think ive found an undocumented hardware bug
2012-01-17T19:04:09 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/i2c_int.c
2012-01-17T19:04:31 < Laurenceb> if you use that code to do two byte read, the first byte isnt acked by the stm
2012-01-17T19:04:48 < Laurenceb> yet it services EV6_1 correctly
2012-01-17T19:04:55 < Laurenceb> so a bug?
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2012-01-17T19:08:27 < Laurenceb> you could delete all the config stuff and just try with some eeprom or whatever
2012-01-17T19:10:23 < karlp> hmm, I wonder if I have some i2c devices at home.
2012-01-17T19:10:39 < karlp> I'll see about it later tonight.
2012-01-17T19:10:43 < Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/QmH1I.jpg
2012-01-17T19:10:45 < Laurenceb> thanks
2012-01-17T19:10:50 < Laurenceb> excuse dodgey photo
2012-01-17T19:11:05 < karlp> is that SCL/SDA?
2012-01-17T19:11:07 <+Steffanx> You can save images with you scope Laurenceb ..
2012-01-17T19:11:09 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-01-17T19:11:17 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: yeah but how?
2012-01-17T19:11:24 <+Steffanx> Which one is it? :)
2012-01-17T19:11:39 < Laurenceb> tektronics tds2004
2012-01-17T19:12:30 < Laurenceb> oh i might have done it
2012-01-17T19:12:44 <+Steffanx> Even with my Rigol it's easy
2012-01-17T19:13:46 < Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/Bj7Pe.png
2012-01-17T19:13:55 < Laurenceb> hmc5883
2012-01-17T19:14:05 < Laurenceb> at 0x3D
2012-01-17T19:14:35 <+Steffanx> I like how you can save it as a csv too :D
2012-01-17T19:16:33 < Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/ljQvw.png
2012-01-17T19:17:06 < karlp> yeah, the csv dump is nice.
2012-01-17T19:23:11 < Laurenceb> trying a delay in the isr before EV6_1
2012-01-17T19:25:41 < Laurenceb> nah no change
2012-01-17T19:26:11 < Laurenceb> i wonder if ST changed the spec, so the NACK becomes effective immediately
2012-01-17T19:26:24 < Laurenceb> rather than on the next byte transfer
2012-01-17T19:26:29 < Laurenceb> as thats what im seeing
2012-01-17T19:26:52 < Laurenceb> they did have a hopelessly wrong F1 datasheet for ages before :P
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2012-01-17T22:09:49 < Laurenceb_> hi all
2012-01-17T22:10:15 <+Steffanx> Lo
2012-01-17T22:15:15 < Laurenceb_> back to i2c fun
2012-01-17T22:15:22 < Laurenceb_> fun fun fun it never ends
2012-01-17T22:16:35 <+Steffanx> pebkac
2012-01-17T22:16:37 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-17T22:17:04 < Thorn> but you had it working before, no?
2012-01-17T22:17:10 < Laurenceb_> nah ive managed to show EV6_1 doesnt work correctly
2012-01-17T22:17:18 < Laurenceb_> Thorn: with polled code yes
2012-01-17T22:18:16 < Laurenceb_> oh wait wtf
2012-01-17T22:18:32 < Laurenceb_> Method1 EV6_1
2012-01-17T22:19:37 < Laurenceb_> you turn off ack just after EV6
2012-01-17T22:19:45 < Laurenceb_> and it operates on the same byte
2012-01-17T22:20:35 < Laurenceb_> so why the hell would method2 differ if the isr is serviced fast
2012-01-17T22:21:01 < Laurenceb_> Figure 274 and figure 272
2012-01-17T22:21:11 < Laurenceb_> WHAT IS GOING ON???
2012-01-17T22:21:48 < Thorn> have you tried the i2c library by ST and / or looked at its source?
2012-01-17T22:22:16 < Thorn> I tend to think that trying to understand their hardware is somewhat futile
2012-01-17T22:22:21 < Laurenceb_> haha
2012-01-17T22:22:22 < Thorn> let's hope they do lol
2012-01-17T22:22:33 < Laurenceb_> im using periph lib
2012-01-17T22:22:42 < Thorn> there's a separate one
2012-01-17T22:22:48 < Thorn> just for i2c
2012-01-17T22:22:48 < Laurenceb_> i could only find example of stm to stm comms
2012-01-17T22:22:56 < Laurenceb_> oh yeah i have it
2012-01-17T22:22:59 < Laurenceb_> ill have a ready
2012-01-17T22:24:58 < Laurenceb_> hmm they use method1
2012-01-17T22:25:12 < Laurenceb_> one difference with method1 is that stop is set at the same time
2012-01-17T22:28:35 < Laurenceb_> maybe ill try method1
2012-01-17T22:29:22 < Laurenceb_> i see the ACK effecting the current byte, as described in method1 diagram
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2012-01-17T22:30:15 < Laurenceb_> i can only imagine that setting STOP makes ack apply to the current byte
2012-01-17T22:30:20 < Laurenceb_> but thats not what im doing
2012-01-17T22:36:17 < Laurenceb_> oh wait it is
2012-01-17T22:36:19 < Laurenceb_> arggg
2012-01-17T22:38:14 < Laurenceb_> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yXukkJ8TquY/TLrSJuyCtvI/AAAAAAAADIU/1rlhqzFPnB4/s200/head-keyboard.gif
2012-01-17T22:38:33 <+Steffanx> AAAAAAAATGRHH
2012-01-17T22:38:43 <+Steffanx> So after all… a pebkac :P
2012-01-17T22:38:54 < Laurenceb_> maybe
2012-01-17T23:03:38 <+Steffanx> Windows is soooo great: http://www.naffets.nl/share/fail-20120117-220126.png … An application of 1TB on a disc of 50GB :P
2012-01-17T23:04:35 < BrainDamage> maybe it's length dilation
2012-01-17T23:04:55 < BrainDamage> what speed / acceleration is applied on the disk?
2012-01-17T23:05:02 < BrainDamage> is it a significant fraction of c?
2012-01-17T23:05:14 <+Steffanx> No, it a neutrino disc
2012-01-17T23:05:17 <+Steffanx> disk
2012-01-17T23:05:41 <+Steffanx> Whatever :P
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2012-01-18T00:32:13 < Laurenceb_> hmm no i wasnt so stupid
2012-01-18T00:32:35 < Laurenceb_> my code was correct, but it looks like STOP isnt always cleared
2012-01-18T00:33:11 < Laurenceb_> if stop is set when ACK/NACK is changed the ack/nack applies to the current byte being transferred
2012-01-18T00:33:42 < Laurenceb_> thats what i see
2012-01-18T00:55:36 < Thorn> arrrrgh
2012-01-18T00:56:07 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-18T00:56:08 < Laurenceb_> indeed
2012-01-18T00:56:36 < Thorn> I assembled the remaining part of my board (CAN) and decided to see if the leds do light up whel signal lines are low
2012-01-18T00:56:44 < Thorn> guess what happened next
2012-01-18T00:57:05 < Laurenceb_> you fried it?
2012-01-18T00:57:35 < Thorn> I poked transistor bases (both of them) with gnd, smoke, transistors are fried (one shorted, other one open)
2012-01-18T00:57:53 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-18T00:57:58 < Thorn> hot air, replace transistors, poke with 2K2 this time, works
2012-01-18T00:58:07 <+Steffanx> * mean .. :(
2012-01-18T00:58:09 < Thorn> did I mention I suck at this?
2012-01-18T00:58:14 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-18T00:59:16 < Thorn> good thing I've got 100 of them (well now 96)
2012-01-18T00:59:17 < Laurenceb_> at least you can rtfm
2012-01-18T01:00:29 <+Steffanx> At least you dont?
2012-01-18T01:00:48 < BrainDamage> I always been wondering
2012-01-18T01:00:59 < BrainDamage> why everyone makes so many references to the kamasutra?
2012-01-18T01:01:34 < Laurenceb_> karmasutra?
2012-01-18T01:02:11 < BrainDamage> the fucking manual
2012-01-18T01:02:16 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-18T01:03:25 < Thorn> nothing can replace experience
2012-01-18T01:03:27 < Thorn> I guess
2012-01-18T01:05:21 < Thorn> why the usb host didn't disconnect power or limit current btw? the power led blinked when it happened so voltage drop must have been large
2012-01-18T01:07:46  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2012-01-18T01:08:20 <+Steffanx> Good night
2012-01-18T01:08:25 < Thorn> night
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2012-01-18T01:34:58 < BrainDamage> even more stlink tools: https://code.google.com/p/qstlink2/
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2012-01-18T01:36:46 < karlp> yeah, people are starting to use the guts of texane in other places now.
2012-01-18T01:37:31 < karlp> they all seem to completely ignore the v1 though, evne though they are both libusb now though
2012-01-18T01:38:45 < karlp> probably should have spent a touch more effort making libstlink.
2012-01-18T01:38:56 < karlp> might be eaisesier to get updates out
2012-01-18T01:39:18 < BrainDamage> makes sense, considering the amount of copypasta
2012-01-18T01:39:24 < BrainDamage> I wonder if it's not too late tough
2012-01-18T01:39:33 < karlp> I suspect it is :)
2012-01-18T01:39:44 < karlp> given what I saw of the openocd patches
2012-01-18T01:40:40 < BrainDamage> bleh, why do buoyancy compensators have to cost so much? .s
2012-01-18T01:43:39 < karlp> bleh, didn't include all the device descriptors from texane.
2012-01-18T01:45:03 < karlp> seems to work on the F4, but the window layout is all busted
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2012-01-18T06:38:21 < ColdStart> im compiling with Eclipse + code sourcery + gnu arm plugin for stm32f103, for some reason it does not like the simple linker script with correct memory mapping, it gives me errors like "undefined symbol _finit" etc... any ideas what could be wrong?
2012-01-18T06:45:42 < Thorn> maybe your linker script requires cs3 or newlib or something else that you aren't linking with
2012-01-18T06:46:04 < ColdStart> well
2012-01-18T06:46:18 < ColdStart> i think i have CS3
2012-01-18T06:46:19 < ColdStart> yes
2012-01-18T06:46:22 < ColdStart> its a new download
2012-01-18T06:46:34 < Thorn> what exactly does it complain about? _fini?
2012-01-18T06:46:35 < ColdStart> and what is newlib?
2012-01-18T06:47:00 < Thorn> a C library implementation, included with codesourcery
2012-01-18T06:47:00 < ColdStart> well not only fini... things like _read etc... it says undefined reference
2012-01-18T06:47:25 < Thorn> that's in libc
2012-01-18T06:47:55 < Thorn> and if it needs that then it's not simple :)
2012-01-18T06:48:08 < ColdStart> well
2012-01-18T06:48:14 < ColdStart> it didnt say anything like that
2012-01-18T06:48:26 < ColdStart> the whole process was smooth, except these linker errors
2012-01-18T06:48:43 < ColdStart> any ideas?
2012-01-18T06:49:02 < Thorn> what code are you buiding? does it use c library functions?
2012-01-18T06:50:48 < Thorn> if you reduce it to main() {while(1);} does it build?
2012-01-18T06:51:01 < ColdStart> holy shit
2012-01-18T06:51:04 < ColdStart> i had printf
2012-01-18T06:51:07 < ColdStart> i removed it now it worked
2012-01-18T06:51:13 < ColdStart> how come i not notice that
2012-01-18T06:51:37 < ColdStart> it was somoe dumb code with fibonacci summing i just pasted it there and didnt look
2012-01-18T06:51:58 < Thorn> printf in newlib is too heavy for a microcontroller, look for lightweight implementations on the net. I think I've seen 3
2012-01-18T06:52:09 < ColdStart> i dont need it at all actually
2012-01-18T06:53:49 < ColdStart> now i have a question
2012-01-18T06:54:41 < ColdStart> right now, i have some simple breakout board with no JTAG, and there is just RS232 type connection to STM32, and i use FlashLoader to load program there.  so question is, does there need to be some precaution made in linker script in order not to overtwrite bootloader?
2012-01-18T06:55:49 < Thorn> there's a builtin bootloader in stm32, it's in ROM and can't be erased
2012-01-18T06:56:18 < ColdStart> so its a factory bootloader which never possible to erase?
2012-01-18T06:56:37 < Thorn> which is what flashloader from ST uses unless I'm way mistaken
2012-01-18T06:56:40 < Thorn> correct
2012-01-18T06:58:24 < ColdStart> also i dont quite understand the syntax for that linker scripts...i wonder where is their precise full specification
2012-01-18T06:58:47 < Thorn> sure, the gnu ld manual
2012-01-18T06:59:50 < ColdStart> oh
2012-01-18T06:59:51 < ColdStart> yea
2012-01-18T07:00:18 < ColdStart> thank you
2012-01-18T07:12:14 < zippe> Thorn: Er, newlib printf isn't really too heavy for the STM32
2012-01-18T07:12:20 < zippe> Unless you're really, really pressed for space.
2012-01-18T07:13:06 < ColdStart> yeah but i see little reason to use it in stm32
2012-01-18T07:13:17 < zippe> ColdStart: Depends on what you're doing.
2012-01-18T07:13:20 < ColdStart> you can debug with debugger, or just in case with uart
2012-01-18T07:14:06 < Thorn> I'm not sure how much stack space it uses but it might be too much for a rtos with multiple stacks and a typical stm32f1 ram size
2012-01-18T07:14:43 < ColdStart> im just experimenting with stm32f103 now, but eventually going to use stm32f405
2012-01-18T07:17:32 < Thorn> well you could even connect a couple of megs of external SRAM to it, the problem is cost. relatively small micros will see most use in the real world
2012-01-18T07:18:37 < Thorn> e.g. I have a few f103vct6 which I'm planning to use for most of my designs (and they're going to be an overkill too, strictly speaking)
2012-01-18T07:20:10 < ColdStart> is there any free tool which can simulate peripherals, except Keil?
2012-01-18T07:20:12 < ColdStart> and for free?
2012-01-18T07:20:22 < ColdStart> i guess if not its still not a problem...but was just wondering
2012-01-18T07:21:01 < zippe> ColdStart: Free?  Your best bet is to hack your peripheral simulations into Qemu
2012-01-18T07:21:14 < zippe> But in general, system simulation is big money.
2012-01-18T07:21:15 < Thorn> good jtag toolchain is your best bet
2012-01-18T07:22:13 < Thorn> these peripherals can probably be accurately simulated only by running the HDL in modelsim
2012-01-18T07:22:52 < ColdStart> i dont have HDL models?
2012-01-18T07:22:55 < ColdStart> how come
2012-01-18T07:23:06 < ColdStart> its the people who design chip might have them, and i doubt they would share them
2012-01-18T07:24:23 < zippe> Well, there a bunch of system simulations
2012-01-18T07:24:34 < zippe> The real question, though, is what problem are you trying to solve?
2012-01-18T07:24:41 < zippe> Are you building custom peripherals?
2012-01-18T07:24:53 < zippe> Are you talking to external logic?
2012-01-18T07:25:02 < ColdStart> well no... the thing is soon i will be developing an application which would require precise IO timing
2012-01-18T07:25:04 < ColdStart> from stm32
2012-01-18T07:25:06 < ColdStart> yes
2012-01-18T07:25:22 < ColdStart> i am thinking about talking to another high speed chips...
2012-01-18T07:25:22 < zippe> So build a mockup and hang an analyser off it
2012-01-18T07:25:33 < zippe> What's "high speed" in your language?
2012-01-18T07:25:38 < ColdStart> i dont have analyzer, but have scope
2012-01-18T07:25:49 < ColdStart> well actually not that high speed, maybe on the order of 50MHz or so
2012-01-18T07:26:21 < Thorn> what interface? spi, parallel bus?
2012-01-18T07:27:06 < ColdStart> just custom interface
2012-01-18T07:27:13 < ColdStart> it will need to toggle IOs
2012-01-18T07:27:16 < ColdStart> to send some data
2012-01-18T07:27:16 < zippe> What does that mean?
2012-01-18T07:27:32 < ColdStart> say, 16 pins need to toggle with specific speed
2012-01-18T07:27:40 < ColdStart> to send a data to another chip
2012-01-18T07:27:47 < Thorn> you can't bitbang at 50MHz. not even close
2012-01-18T07:28:06 < zippe> ColdStart: What is this other chip?
2012-01-18T07:28:24 < ColdStart> fpga
2012-01-18T07:28:37 < Thorn> FSMC ->parallel bus
2012-01-18T07:29:40 < ColdStart> also, i will have to provide a Clock signal to another chip from stm32
2012-01-18T07:29:55 < Thorn> there's clock out capability
2012-01-18T07:30:17 < zippe> ColdStart: Do you own the FPGA design?
2012-01-18T07:30:56 < ColdStart> not quite
2012-01-18T07:31:12 < zippe> Can you make them fix the interface so that it looks like an SRAM?
2012-01-18T07:31:12 < ColdStart> i have a question
2012-01-18T07:32:04 < ColdStart> i have configured the following tools today: Eclipse, Eclipse gnu arm plugin, sourcery G++ LITE... i also owe ST-LINK debugger... so what other software now its better to use for debug?
2012-01-18T07:32:47 < zippe> That stack will work OK
2012-01-18T07:33:01 < ColdStart> yes... but dont i need something more for debug?
2012-01-18T07:33:04 < ColdStart> im using WinXp
2012-01-18T07:33:23 < Thorn> target -> jtag/swd adapter -> gdb server -> gdb -> eclipse plugin
2012-01-18T07:33:28 < zippe> You might need some glue for sourcery to talk to the ST-Link
2012-01-18T07:33:42 < zippe> Honestly, I avoid doing embedded work on Windows whenever possible
2012-01-18T07:34:01 < ColdStart> well...i will do that on Linux too, its just first shot there...
2012-01-18T07:34:12 < ColdStart> im doing all FPGA related work on Linux
2012-01-18T07:34:12 < zippe> You're doing well by using something retargetable with eclipse and Sourcery
2012-01-18T07:34:34 < Thorn> a gdb server for stlink has been discussed repeatedly in this channel, I've neer tried it myself though
2012-01-18T07:34:35 < zippe> But you may need to talk to ST or Mentor to see how to get the ST-Link integrated
2012-01-18T07:34:39 < zippe> I used it
2012-01-18T07:34:40 < ColdStart> i never had any experience with stm32, i just started a day ago, before i did stuff with PIC32
2012-01-18T07:34:43 < zippe> use it, even
2012-01-18T07:34:52 < zippe> It works OK, but it's pretty rough around the edges
2012-01-18T07:35:21 < zippe> ColdStart: ARM JTAG probes are dirt cheap
2012-01-18T07:35:37 < ColdStart> ok so... i will have to install GDB Eclipse plugin, right?
2012-01-18T07:35:40 < zippe> If you're not happy with the ST-Link, you should have no trouble moving to OpenOCD and something like the JTAGKey
2012-01-18T07:35:58 < zippe> If you installed CDT you should probably have all that already
2012-01-18T07:36:10 < Thorn> you don't have to install any plugins, gdb has a command line interface :)
2012-01-18T07:36:12 < zippe> I haven't used Eclipse in anger for ~6mo now
2012-01-18T07:36:33 < zippe> It's too hard to keep it going across the couple dozen projects I'm working on at any given time
2012-01-18T07:36:43 < zippe> I do everything with Sublime Text and gnumake
2012-01-18T07:37:24 < Thorn> gnu make sure is underrated
2012-01-18T07:37:36 < zippe> Not sure by whom
2012-01-18T07:37:51 < zippe> People scared of functional programming, perhaps?
2012-01-18T07:38:04 < Thorn> IDE developers and users of course
2012-01-18T07:38:12 < zippe> Meh, there's all sorts.
2012-01-18T07:38:38 < zippe> I actually respect Eclipse for building an architecture that honestly tries to work well with make
2012-01-18T07:39:21 < zippe> But there's also a good deal to be said for a sourcebase that works well with cc -o program *.c
2012-01-18T07:40:25 < ColdStart> another question, all i added to the project were files taken from peripheral library from st.com, the following files:  stm32f10x.h, system_stm32f10x.h, cr_cm3.h   and then added linker script, a startup .s file and thats it... so thats a basic and "from scratch" type design flow? i.e. not using any libraries and staying close to metal?
2012-01-18T07:41:10 < zippe> If you're using someone else's headers, you're not "from scratch"
2012-01-18T07:41:17 < zippe> But yes, that's a fairly low-level start.
2012-01-18T07:41:21 < ColdStart> well yeah.....
2012-01-18T07:41:35 < Thorn> you're already using CMSIS and the standard peripheral library, that's two :)
2012-01-18T07:41:58 < Thorn> there're people who try to avoid even those (not that I'd recommend it)
2012-01-18T07:42:03 < ColdStart> i kinnd of skimmed through those header files, and i see that they all about renaming memory mappings to register names...so its not that bad i guess? and can be considered fairly scratch kind of thing?
2012-01-18T07:42:24 < zippe> Are you looking for a merit badge or something?
2012-01-18T07:43:05 < ColdStart> no, the reason i asked is, if i want to stay very close to metal, but at the same time not going through renaming everything...is that ok thing to do?
2012-01-18T07:43:17 < zippe> Because until you've written your bootloader on graph paper using a bad xerox of the instruction encoding table for your processor and a hardcopy of the board schematic, you're not in the running.
2012-01-18T07:43:27 < Thorn> it's not renaming, it's defining names
2012-01-18T07:43:43 < ColdStart> yes defining
2012-01-18T07:43:43 < zippe> "Staying close to the metal" is not a thing you do for the sake of doing it
2012-01-18T07:43:55 < zippe> What are your objectives with the project?
2012-01-18T07:43:59 < ColdStart> i like staying close to metal
2012-01-18T07:44:10 < ColdStart> iwill have different projects im planning to do on stm32 soon
2012-01-18T07:44:24 < ColdStart> i just decided not doing it all on pic but move to stm32
2012-01-18T07:44:32 < zippe> You don't even know what "staying close to metal" is … you're asking strangers on IRC what it means...
2012-01-18T07:44:55 < zippe> If you want a recommendation, pick a runtime that you like and use that
2012-01-18T07:45:06 < zippe> Some people use the ST libraries.  I think they are crazy, personally.
2012-01-18T07:45:08 < ColdStart> staying close to metal in my understanding is not being too dependend on lower level software
2012-01-18T07:45:26 < zippe> Others like the Maple library.  And libopencm3 is evolving fairly nicely.
2012-01-18T07:45:44 < zippe> Yes, but why?  What purpose does it serve?
2012-01-18T07:45:50 < Thorn> CMSIS is as close to metal as you should descend IMO
2012-01-18T07:46:13 < ColdStart> Thorn: well ok, thats what i guess i want
2012-01-18T07:47:04 < ColdStart> zippe, for example i dont want to use functions like "read_adc" which just spits out value from ADC for me, and i dont even know what kind of sample and hold combination is used, how often channels multiplexed etc... i want to define all that stuff
2012-01-18T07:47:05 < Thorn> i.e. using macros (and a few functions) as opposed to the stdperiph API stuff
2012-01-18T07:47:33 < Thorn> you'll have to initialize the peripheral first anyway
2012-01-18T07:48:01 < ColdStart> well yes, i want to initialize a peripheral and set its mode of operation and everything
2012-01-18T07:48:05 < ColdStart> and same with all other things
2012-01-18T07:48:46 < ColdStart> but i dont mind register names which were already defined...its ok, that does not affect the operation... thats why i was thinking that using those header files from CMSIS might be OK
2012-01-18T07:49:58 < Thorn> there was someone here who did the initial clock setup using nothing but CMSIS, it took him a few days
2012-01-18T07:50:02 < ColdStart> ok so it turns out all i need now is to install ST-LINK driver, and then start GDB from eclipse and it should do the debug work?
2012-01-18T07:50:21 < Thorn> in 50+ lines of code
2012-01-18T07:50:30 < ColdStart> Thorn: weird,.
2012-01-18T07:50:54 < ColdStart> it might take me same too, im not sure... what do you use Thorn?
2012-01-18T07:51:01 < Thorn> I still have his code
2012-01-18T07:51:03 < ColdStart> if not CMSIS? your own definitions made up?
2012-01-18T07:52:04 < Thorn> most people use the standard peripheral library at least partly
2012-01-18T07:52:17 < ColdStart> which is CMSIS?
2012-01-18T07:53:18 < Thorn> no, cmsis (as I use the term here) is the low level definitions for memory mapped registers etc
2012-01-18T07:53:32 < ColdStart> oh well.
2012-01-18T07:53:33 < ColdStart> ok
2012-01-18T07:53:47 < ColdStart> so i guess thats what i will use, because it seemed to me like that when i skimmed through it
2012-01-18T07:54:34 < Thorn> it's not going to be easy
2012-01-18T07:55:07 < ColdStart> no its not...if one decides to use USB, SDIO
2012-01-18T07:55:27 < Thorn> http://pastebin.com/y1YpJcm4 <-clock initialization by erik-k
2012-01-18T07:55:34 < Thorn> he gave up shortly after that :)
2012-01-18T07:57:03 < Thorn> note that the only peripheral used there is the RCC (reset & clock control)
2012-01-18T07:59:52 < ColdStart> this code has shitty comments, it doesnt say how much is source clock
2012-01-18T08:01:09 < Thorn> 25MHz crystal
2012-01-18T08:01:15 < Thorn> line 13
2012-01-18T08:02:22 < Thorn> (standard library expects 8MHz for f103 btw)
2012-01-18T08:07:29 < Thorn> as far as USB is concerned there's a separate high level library from ST for that with its own pretty large manual
2012-01-18T08:13:49 < ColdStart> so did that design worked on the long run?
2012-01-18T08:20:15 < zippe> The ST USB library is a PITA and has some pretty serious issues
2012-01-18T08:20:38 < ColdStart> what is pita?
2012-01-18T08:20:41 < zippe> libopencm3 has some much lighter-weight USB functionality that's not bad
2012-01-18T08:20:48 < zippe> What you feel after UFIA
2012-01-18T08:20:57 < ColdStart> what is ufia?
2012-01-18T08:21:37 < zippe> http://bit.ly/AdRiVd
2012-01-18T08:22:55 < ColdStart> ok
2012-01-18T08:28:47 < ColdStart> so stm32 are Italian chips huh?
2012-01-18T08:33:23 < zippe> Not actually sure where the team(s) are located
2012-01-18T08:46:53  * flyback- btw if you turn on noscript you can use wikipedia's webpage just fine
2012-01-18T09:16:59 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: jnosky
2012-01-18T09:18:07  * flyback- COMES UP WITH "SOPA IS A APOS" notice it's as assbackwards as the law
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2012-01-18T11:26:38 < mansfeld> hello people
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2012-01-18T12:10:03 < karlp> Thorn: I briefly tried clock setup just using cmsis too, I gave up pretty quickly :)
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2012-01-18T14:34:25 < mansfeld> I was wondering... with an STM32W108, does anyone know if I can configure the chip to go into deep sleep modes 1 or 2? My device never goes below 400uA consumption, which seems suspiciously close to "emulated sleep" (sleep mode 0)
2012-01-18T14:34:35 < mansfeld> is there a config byte that I'm missing somewhere?
2012-01-18T14:41:13 < Laurenceb> is there a datasheet for the wireless ones?
2012-01-18T14:41:32 < mansfeld> Laurenceb: yes : http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATASHEET/CD00248316.pdf
2012-01-18T14:42:18 < Laurenceb> cool
2012-01-18T14:42:46 <+Steffanx> Ofcourse there's a datasheet for it Laurenceb :S
2012-01-18T14:43:06 < Laurenceb> some of the stuff in NDA
2012-01-18T14:43:10 < Laurenceb>  or used to be
2012-01-18T14:43:16 < Laurenceb> *is
2012-01-18T14:43:19 < mansfeld> ah, yes the radio part is not documented
2012-01-18T14:43:22 < Laurenceb> oh
2012-01-18T14:43:25 < Laurenceb> that sucks
2012-01-18T14:43:31 < mansfeld> you have to rely on the SimpleMAC library
2012-01-18T14:43:33 < mansfeld> :(
2012-01-18T14:43:38 <+Steffanx> Oh, that sucks indeed
2012-01-18T14:43:53 < Laurenceb> they have a part with integrated GPD too
2012-01-18T14:43:57 < Laurenceb> *GPS
2012-01-18T14:44:01 < Laurenceb> but thats NDA
2012-01-18T14:44:03 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-01-18T14:44:09 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-01-18T14:44:13 <+Steffanx> Oh, that's not an stm32
2012-01-18T14:44:22 < Laurenceb> oh - arm9?
2012-01-18T14:47:08 <+Steffanx> So, that's a reason NOT to use that stm32w
2012-01-18T14:47:20 < mansfeld> indeed
2012-01-18T14:47:43 < karlp> there's not even a reference manual at the moment.
2012-01-18T14:48:21 <+Steffanx> The datasheets seems to describe most of it.. incl registers (for the standard peripherals)
2012-01-18T14:48:43 <+Steffanx> *datasheet
2012-01-18T14:49:46 < mansfeld> you mean aside from the block diagram on page 35?
2012-01-18T14:50:06 < BrainDamage> the very fact they didn't make a dev board for w devices at accessible prices is annoying
2012-01-18T14:50:15 < BrainDamage> let alone this █████████  bullshit
2012-01-18T14:50:39 < karlp> the W devices have dev boards for, what, 80$ ?
2012-01-18T14:50:50 < karlp> not discovery priced, but still wayyyy cheaper than lots of traditional dev boards
2012-01-18T14:51:00 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage… no SOPA bullshit here please
2012-01-18T14:51:29 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: I meant the st not disclosing stm32w infos :p
2012-01-18T14:51:32 < mansfeld> BrainDamage: Digikey sell the STM32W-RFCKIT for $46.50
2012-01-18T14:51:44 < mansfeld> not exactly a dev board
2012-01-18T14:51:50 <+Steffanx> ok ok BrainDamage :)
2012-01-18T14:51:55 < mansfeld> but it's a start
2012-01-18T14:52:11 < karlp> what are some other arm+802.15.4 devices?
2012-01-18T14:52:12 < BrainDamage> mansfeld: yes, but for the hardware it has, it's severely overpriced
2012-01-18T14:52:38 < BrainDamage> it's a breakout with some buttons
2012-01-18T14:52:47 < BrainDamage> and an usb-rf key
2012-01-18T14:53:09 < BrainDamage> hardware cost : 10-15€ in small quantities
2012-01-18T14:53:31 < mansfeld> mm, in small quantities that STM32W goes for more than $5 and there's two of them ^^
2012-01-18T14:53:49 < BrainDamage> I've seen 7.5$
2012-01-18T14:53:59 < BrainDamage> convert to €
2012-01-18T14:54:09 < BrainDamage> and you get 15€ for everything :p
2012-01-18T14:54:25 < BrainDamage> also, I dobut st produces small amounts
2012-01-18T14:54:48 < BrainDamage> which will probably drop the prices to 5-8€, or less
2012-01-18T14:54:55 < mansfeld> yeah I guess
2012-01-18T14:55:16 < mansfeld> still, it has about twice the hardware of the other discovery kits, and the chips are more expensive
2012-01-18T14:55:23 < mansfeld> compared to that, it's not completely unreasonable
2012-01-18T14:56:16 < BrainDamage> then I'd espect twice the cost of a discovery, which still makes it half of current price
2012-01-18T14:56:43 < mansfeld> hehe
2012-01-18T14:56:52 < karlp> twice the cost of the F4 board..
2012-01-18T14:57:02 < karlp> only the VL discovery is super cheap,
2012-01-18T14:57:38 < BrainDamage> F4 board has 2 mems, small buffering amp, etc
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2012-01-18T14:59:21 < mansfeld> hmm btw, regarding my original question : is it possible that I can't get out of this "debug" more because I'm using SWD programming rather than JTAG?
2012-01-18T15:08:58 <+Steffanx> pass
2012-01-18T15:11:25 < karlp> pass
2012-01-18T15:11:35 < mansfeld> \o/
2012-01-18T15:11:38 < karlp> :)
2012-01-18T15:11:52 < karlp> you're fully disconnecting and reseting into your own code when you're measuring the current right?
2012-01-18T15:12:01 < mansfeld> yeah
2012-01-18T15:19:15 <+Steffanx> Argh.. ST with their stupid installers
2012-01-18T15:19:21 <+Steffanx> I want to see the code.. not install it
2012-01-18T15:19:41 <+Steffanx> And windows only
2012-01-18T15:22:39 < mansfeld> Steffanx: try this : https://github.com/contiki/contiki-mirror/tree/master/cpu/stm32w108
2012-01-18T15:23:14 < mansfeld> simplemac functions are in hal/
2012-01-18T15:23:25 < mansfeld> but you won't get the source, it's precompiled
2012-01-18T15:23:38 <+Steffanx> Ofcours
2012-01-18T15:23:38 <+Steffanx> e
2012-01-18T15:23:43 < mansfeld> (sorry, assuming that's what you wanted to see)
2012-01-18T15:23:51 <+Steffanx> I wanted to see all of it
2012-01-18T15:24:08 <+Steffanx> It still annoying they only provide an zip, with an .exe ...
2012-01-18T15:24:14 <+Steffanx> *it's
2012-01-18T15:24:33 <+Steffanx> Arhh, I should read my sentences before i press enter/return :)
2012-01-18T15:25:15 < karlp> All heap blocks were freed -- no leaks are possible
2012-01-18T15:25:19 < karlp> schweeet
2012-01-18T15:25:32 < karlp> I love it when valgrind is clean after making memory allocation changes.
2012-01-18T15:25:39 <+Steffanx> Yes yes
2012-01-18T15:25:45 <+Steffanx> Valgrind is nice
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2012-01-18T16:37:18 <+Steffanx> zyp .. you here?!
2012-01-18T16:38:05 < zyp> just checking out if anybody says anything interesting here
2012-01-18T16:38:16 <+Steffanx> atm.. no
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2012-01-18T16:38:24 < Laurenceb> i am sparticus
2012-01-18T16:38:32 < eroomde> thanks for the tip Laurenceb
2012-01-18T16:38:35 < eroomde> i'll ask here then
2012-01-18T16:38:50 <+Steffanx> Invasion?
2012-01-18T16:39:02 <+Steffanx> Where did you talk about this channel Laurenceb ?
2012-01-18T16:39:10 < Laurenceb> 4chan
2012-01-18T16:39:16 < Laurenceb>  /jk
2012-01-18T16:39:35 <+Steffanx> That /jk made the joke less funny
2012-01-18T16:39:36 < eroomde> Steffanx: apologies. just interested in playing with the F4 parts
2012-01-18T16:40:10 < eroomde> and getting a toolchain which supports hard floating point and an osx compatible, f4 compatible st-link
2012-01-18T16:40:51 < zyp> eroomde, just download the OS X yagarto package, that's what I'm using
2012-01-18T16:41:08 <+Steffanx> That has support for the stlink too?
2012-01-18T16:41:26 < zyp> no, yagarto is the compiler toolchain
2012-01-18T16:41:37 < eroomde> zyp: i've got stuff compiling with a patched (github.com/MikeSmith) summon arm toolchain
2012-01-18T16:41:47 < eroomde> so now i just want to get st-link working
2012-01-18T16:41:47 < zyp> I'm using a recent version of texane's stlink
2012-01-18T16:41:56 < eroomde> but my board won't arrive until tomorrow so it's a bit academic at this stage
2012-01-18T16:41:57 < zyp> also works wonderfully
2012-01-18T16:42:17 < eroomde> eventually i'll want to use jtag for boards of my own design - do you know if the f4 parts work with openOCD yet?
2012-01-18T16:42:22 < zyp> I've used summon arm too, but yagarto is simpler
2012-01-18T16:42:28 <+Steffanx> Recent.. the branch from texane breaks all the time zyp
2012-01-18T16:42:32 < zyp> I haven't tested
2012-01-18T16:42:58 < Laurenceb> im using codesourcery
2012-01-18T16:43:01 < zyp> Steffanx, well, I've got a revision that works, and I see no point in upgrading it when it works
2012-01-18T16:43:32 < zyp> I'm using 081eae3 apparently
2012-01-18T16:43:58 < Laurenceb> does it flash F4 correctly now?
2012-01-18T16:43:59 < zyp> and that's working great for both F1 and F4
2012-01-18T16:44:29 < Laurenceb> cool
2012-01-18T16:44:33 < zyp> or, I might have used an earlier version last time I tested F4
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2012-01-18T17:01:07 < corecode> hi
2012-01-18T17:01:22 <+Steffanx> lo
2012-01-18T17:01:33 < corecode> what's the deal with the usb pullup not being of the right resistance?
2012-01-18T17:01:46 < corecode> i read that in the stm32L1 errata
2012-01-18T17:02:03 < corecode> is this serious, or can i mostly ignore this?
2012-01-18T17:02:27 <+Steffanx> What does the errata say about it?
2012-01-18T17:02:31 <+Steffanx> Work around or ..?
2012-01-18T17:03:11 < jpa-> how much wrong? :)
2012-01-18T17:03:37 < jpa-> if not much, it only matters for getting it accepted through the USB spec :)
2012-01-18T17:04:54 < corecode> ah
2012-01-18T17:04:57 < corecode> sec
2012-01-18T17:08:58 < corecode> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/ERRATA_SHEET/CD00278726.pdf
2012-01-18T17:09:11 < corecode> The pull-up resistor on USB line is requested to have a nominal value
2012-01-18T17:09:11 < corecode> of 1.5 kΩ, whereas
2012-01-18T17:09:11 < corecode> the characterization of the internal pull-up shows a value between
2012-01-18T17:09:11 < corecode> 0.81 kΩ and 0.95 kΩ on
2012-01-18T17:09:13 < corecode> the full temperature range.
2012-01-18T17:09:21 < corecode> > Workaround
2012-01-18T17:09:21 < corecode> > An external pull-up resistor controlled by a GPIO can be used.
2012-01-18T17:25:20 < Thorn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vdvAfCXLkM
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2012-01-18T18:22:00 < Laurenceb> anyone here tried to terminate i2c method2 using repeated start?
2012-01-18T18:22:13 < Laurenceb> to talk to multiple devices without stop-start  ?
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2012-01-18T18:49:16 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2012-01-18T18:49:33 < Laurenceb> i try to read 22 bytes using method2 and it never completes
2012-01-18T18:50:17 < zyp> you're doing something wrong
2012-01-18T18:50:59 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/D2nSgx1c
2012-01-18T18:51:28 < Laurenceb> it gets to reading from the bmp085, then never completes
2012-01-18T18:51:47 < Laurenceb> sometimes it completes but most times it continues reading bytes forever
2012-01-18T18:52:07 < Laurenceb> stupid text wrap
2012-01-18T18:52:24 < zyp> stop commenting code on the same line
2012-01-18T18:52:45 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.ca/2103845
2012-01-18T18:53:41 < Laurenceb> i dont see how i broke it
2012-01-18T18:55:38 < Laurenceb> it doesnt seem to be able to handle rx bytes
2012-01-18T18:57:46 < Laurenceb> im going to have to give up and use method1 at this rate, but thats a massive pita
2012-01-18T18:57:56 < Laurenceb> method1 is annoying
2012-01-18T18:58:12 < Laurenceb> but method2 seems to be broken with interrupts
2012-01-18T18:59:21 < Laurenceb> line 121 doesnt seem to work
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2012-01-18T19:01:27 < Laurenceb> ill remove I2C_SoftwareResetCmd(I2C1, ENABLE);
2012-01-18T19:01:44 < Laurenceb> as behaviour seems to alternate with resets but not power cycles
2012-01-18T19:08:22 < Laurenceb> spot anything?
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2012-01-18T19:18:12 < Laurenceb> shame - i thought i had an explanation for the issues :/
2012-01-18T19:35:15 < Laurenceb> at 100000hz i see the same issue
2012-01-18T19:35:52 < Laurenceb> trying to read from any sensor i get start, address, subaddress, rep start, stop
2012-01-18T19:36:20 < Laurenceb> code seems to be running correctly and i added a loop to make sure the stop is sent befre setting start
2012-01-18T19:36:36 < Laurenceb> same with while(I2C_GetFlagStatus(I2C1,I2C_FLAG_BUSY)){;}
2012-01-18T19:37:47 < Laurenceb> im giving up and using i2c method1, ill bet noone can make method2 work on F1 with interrupts
2012-01-18T19:37:48 < Laurenceb> :P
2012-01-18T19:40:27 < Laurenceb> bbl
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2012-01-18T19:59:26 < karlp> I was looking atyour pastes, but I couldn't work out what was method1 and what was method2?
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2012-01-18T21:28:59 < karlp> new stm discovery board! includes some prototyping areas.
2012-01-18T21:29:07 < karlp> except of course, it's stm8, not stm32
2012-01-18T21:29:17 < zippe> Heh
2012-01-18T21:29:35 < zippe> The f4 discovery board seems to have completely killed the market for F4 dev boards
2012-01-18T21:29:46 < zippe> I haven't seen an f2 or f4 dev board from anyone yet
2012-01-18T21:30:38 <+Steffanx> There are two f2 boards on ebay
2012-01-18T21:31:06 < zippe> Hm, I guess Olimex have the P207 out now
2012-01-18T21:31:26 <+Steffanx> I want an f4 with some (s)sram
2012-01-18T21:33:17 < zippe> The only F2 I see is the Haou board, which is about as minimal as they come
2012-01-18T21:33:54 <+Steffanx> Minimal .. who needs more?
2012-01-18T21:33:59 <+Steffanx> Flash and sram
2012-01-18T21:34:20 <+Steffanx> The other one is gone
2012-01-18T21:34:23 < zippe> I'd like a phy and magnetics, at least
2012-01-18T21:36:16 <+Steffanx> Oh, you want ethernet
2012-01-18T21:38:20 < BrainDamage> phy?
2012-01-18T21:39:40 <+Steffanx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHY_(chip) :P
2012-01-18T21:41:14 < BrainDamage> on phone, cannot check links atm
2012-01-18T21:41:39 <+Steffanx> Ofcourse you can
2012-01-18T21:41:51 < BrainDamage> and goovle takes few mins too :/
2012-01-18T21:43:46 < karlp> there's plnety of f2 dev boards on mouser,
2012-01-18T21:43:56 < karlp> from keil and st
2012-01-18T21:44:40 < karlp> but yeah, $382. *giggle*
2012-01-18T21:47:52 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-18T21:51:38  * karlp is finally back on his own projects again!
2012-01-18T21:51:44 < karlp> lets see if I can get spi to work tonight
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2012-01-18T21:54:26 < Laurenceb_> zyp: ping
2012-01-18T21:55:17 < Laurenceb_> i was thinking - my i2c code does run "better" now i check for stop set and avoid setting stop and start at once, but it always messed up at the first repeated start
2012-01-18T21:55:29 < zippe> Ah, Olimex did the Maple 'right'
2012-01-18T21:55:46 < Laurenceb_> but repeated start is never described anywhere in the datasheet
2012-01-18T21:56:00 < Laurenceb_> so... can it actually do repeated start reliably?!
2012-01-18T21:56:18 < karlp> zippe: what was wrong with the maple that olimex changed?
2012-01-18T21:57:10 < BrainDamage> maple is super basic
2012-01-18T21:57:42 < BrainDamage> it's little more than a breakout board
2012-01-18T21:58:14 < zippe> karlp: battery charger, EEPROM, 32KHz crystal, switching regulator
2012-01-18T21:59:26 < zippe> standard JTAG connector, microSD
2012-01-18T21:59:35 < zippe> Actually, I take it back; that's the CAN phy, not an EEPROM
2012-01-18T22:01:02 < karlp> maple is like arduino as far as breakout goes, just with an stm32 instead right
2012-01-18T22:01:22 < karlp> only they used a f103, and didn't break out usb I guess.
2012-01-18T22:01:36 < zippe> They bring USB to a mini-B
2012-01-18T22:01:37 < karlp> zippe: which olimex board are you referring to?
2012-01-18T22:01:47 < zippe> http://www.olimex.com/dev/olimexino-stm32.html
2012-01-18T22:02:06 < zyp> usb and can share the same pins on F103, no?
2012-01-18T22:02:17 < karlp> huh, that's not listed in their dev boards page
2012-01-18T22:03:38 < zyp> oh, no, they remapped can to some other pins
2012-01-18T22:03:50 < zippe> It's listed under "Duino"
2012-01-18T22:03:57 < karlp> yeah, found them all now.
2012-01-18T22:04:01 < karlp> yeah, olimexino looks alright
2012-01-18T22:04:43 < zippe> The killer for me with the Maple was the complete fail around battery management
2012-01-18T22:05:50 < zippe> Olimex went pretty overboard with their power solution, which helps distinguish the board from the others… then they go put the battery connector in the same plane as the external connectors.
2012-01-18T22:06:52 < karlp> well, I guess maple just copied the arduino, ie, "low power? what's that?"
2012-01-18T22:07:08 < karlp> how long should systick take to get started up?
2012-01-18T22:07:08 < zippe> I don't think that's entirely fair to the leaflabs guys
2012-01-18T22:07:22 < karlp> it seems to run fine after a second or two,
2012-01-18T22:07:38 < karlp> but when I rpess reset, it runs through a few hundred loops immediately,
2012-01-18T22:07:46 < karlp> even after the call to set it up for milliseconds.
2012-01-18T22:08:02 < zippe> It should work straight out of the box
2012-01-18T22:08:07 < karlp> yeah, I know.
2012-01-18T22:08:09 < zippe> Are you trying to use it before you have the PLL set up?
2012-01-18T22:08:54 < karlp> running on HSI, and a loop to block until HSI is ready,
2012-01-18T22:09:36 < zippe> When you say "runs through a few hundred loops", what are you referring to?
2012-01-18T22:09:40 < zippe> A storm of systick interrupts?
2012-01-18T22:10:02 < karlp> that's sort of what it looks like.
2012-01-18T22:10:18 < zippe> Are you enabling the interrupt before you start the timer?
2012-01-18T22:11:11 < zippe> IIRC (it's been a little while since I looked) if a same-priority interrupt is pending, you'll get one instruction issued between interrupts (so that you can make some forward progress in the presence of a storm).
2012-01-18T22:11:54 < karlp> no, it's SystemInit() to set up clocks, then in main, setup systick for milliseconds, and I've stuck a 10 second busy loop to work out what's on, printing out chars every second.
2012-01-18T22:11:54 < zippe> That might give the symptoms you're seeing iff you're taking them between enable and start
2012-01-18T22:12:11 < zippe> Oh, you're using the ST library
2012-01-18T22:12:13 < karlp> when I press reset, I get about 500 chars immediately, then 1 char a second as expected
2012-01-18T22:12:18 < karlp> SystemInit() is mine,
2012-01-18T22:12:40 < karlp> but yeah,. I'm using the st stdperiph lib
2012-01-18T22:13:01 < zippe> Sounds like a variable initialisation issue.  How are you handling the delay?
2012-01-18T22:14:19 < karlp> yeah, I found where my volatile counter wasn't being properly set to zero at boot, seemd like an obvious screwup, but it didn't help.  looking a bit more...
2012-01-18T22:14:56 < zippe> btw, I hate ticks
2012-01-18T22:15:05 < zippe> I'm a disciple of the deadline timer
2012-01-18T22:16:17 < zippe> So forgive me if I try to talk you out of tick timing. 8)
2012-01-18T22:16:27 < zippe> For busy-waiting, consider using the cycle counter instead
2012-01-18T22:16:28 < karlp> well, my spi is working at least, turns out I was simply too fast for the radio.
2012-01-18T22:16:44 < karlp> the avr I had before wasn't fast enough :)
2012-01-18T22:16:54 < karlp> I had the actual transfer speed ok,
2012-01-18T22:17:01 < karlp> but not enough hold time on the chip select pin.
2012-01-18T22:17:21 < karlp> oh, I was only using busy waiting to try and debug why spi didn't work for me.
2012-01-18T22:17:50 < karlp> have you got a link or a quick summary to what you mean by deadline timers?
2012-01-18T22:18:01 < karlp> just having a timer for each task that executes the task when it hits zero?
2012-01-18T22:18:09 < karlp> always reloaded to the fixed interval you wanted?
2012-01-18T22:19:22 < zippe> Instead of taking a regular tick, keep a list of events sorted by when they need to happen
2012-01-18T22:19:38 < zippe> When you add a new event that ends up at the head of the list, set the timer to fire when the event is due.
2012-01-18T22:20:00 < zippe> When the timer goes off, loop popping events off the top of the list until you find one whose deadline is in the future; reset the timer and return.
2012-01-18T22:20:14 < karlp> yeah, fair enough.
2012-01-18T22:20:20 < zippe> That lets you run timers much faster than you ever want to tick
2012-01-18T22:20:27 < karlp> used that before, but had a different name for it :)
2012-01-18T22:20:49 < zippe> No worries. 8)
2012-01-18T22:20:54 < karlp> nice thing about cortex, is you can do that, and still hav ea systick :)
2012-01-18T22:21:09 < zippe> Well, if you do it right, you don't need systick
2012-01-18T22:21:16 < zippe> And you can do it with the systick timer
2012-01-18T22:21:57 < zippe> it's trivial to emulate periodic timers with deadlines
2012-01-18T22:22:17 < zippe> The other thing that's nice about v7M is the cycle counter
2012-01-18T22:22:35 < zippe> Answering "what time is it now" is nice and cheap.
2012-01-18T22:23:04 < zippe> Should have been a 64-bit counter, of course
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2012-01-18T22:27:01 < karlp> ahh. it's my implementation of the delay.
2012-01-18T22:27:20 < karlp> delay(10000) too early results in an unsigned overflow
2012-01-18T22:28:14 < karlp> I've screwed up a few too many signed things recently...
2012-01-18T22:29:39 < karlp> yep, correctomundo.
2012-01-18T22:29:43 < karlp> pebkac, as usual.
2012-01-18T22:31:52 <+Steffanx> lolol
2012-01-18T22:32:41 < karlp> and in this, as all of them, I've said, "unsigned? why do I need that extra bit. let's just keep everything signed"
2012-01-18T22:32:50 < zippe1> int bad, unsigned good
2012-01-18T22:33:00 < zippe1> Also, are you trying to use int16?
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2012-01-18T22:33:08 < karlp> no, int good!
2012-01-18T22:33:29 < karlp> it was uint64 - desired < now
2012-01-18T22:33:35 < karlp> signed good!
2012-01-18T22:33:48 < karlp> signed handles wraps properly!
2012-01-18T22:33:52 < zippe> That's the wrong calculation, actually
2012-01-18T22:33:53 < karlp> (so do deadline timers ;)
2012-01-18T22:34:24 < karlp> sorry, it was now - desired < startedtime
2012-01-18T22:34:26 < jpa-> while signed actually doesn't handle wraps when the signed datatype overflows :)
2012-01-18T22:35:10 < karlp> it does for anything that uses 2s complement internally iirc?
2012-01-18T22:35:15 < zippe> With a 64-bit timer, !(deadline > now) is always safe
2012-01-18T22:35:33 < zippe> You can always cast the result of unsigned arithmetic to signed in order to check for wrap
2012-01-18T22:35:58 < jpa-> karlp: well, the standard doesn't guarantee it and gcc optimizations abuse it
2012-01-18T22:36:19 < zippe> The standard does actually guarantee it (now)
2012-01-18T22:36:21 < zippe> It's really gross
2012-01-18T22:36:31 < jpa-> for signed? which standard?
2012-01-18T22:36:51 < zippe> sorry, misread
2012-01-18T22:37:12 < zippe> signed -> unsigned -> signed is guaranteed
2012-01-18T22:37:38 < zippe> ergo on a 2s complement machine (int)(unsignedA - unsignedB) is negative for unsignedB > unsignedA
2012-01-18T22:38:21 < karlp> so... http://pastebin.com/0teYz1Uk
2012-01-18T22:38:44 < karlp> is that going to work properly when the signed 64 bit number wraps back to a negative?
2012-01-18T22:38:53 < zippe> Are you multithreading?
2012-01-18T22:38:59 < zippe> Or are you singlethreaded?
2012-01-18T22:39:12 < jpa-> yeah, might as well check unsignedB > unsignedA directly :P
2012-01-18T22:39:25 < karlp> single.
2012-01-18T22:39:35 < zippe> volatile unsigned delay;
2012-01-18T22:39:49 < jpa-> karlp: it doesn't necessarily wrap back to negative; it can wrap to bananas
2012-01-18T22:39:51 < zippe> void delay(unsigned msec) { delay = msec; while (delay); }
2012-01-18T22:39:59 < karlp> that code, with all the int64_ts as uint64_ts did NOT work when I called delay_ms(10000) early
2012-01-18T22:40:05 < zippe> void systick_handler(void) { if (delay) delay—;}
2012-01-18T22:40:05 < jpa-> http://thiemonagel.de/2010/01/signed-integer-overflow/
2012-01-18T22:40:54 < zippe> karlp: obviously still needs your init, and totally not reentrant, but much simpler.
2012-01-18T22:41:03 < karlp> zippe: hmm, I've seen someone's systick handler that did that decrementing thing.
2012-01-18T22:41:15 < karlp> wasn't immediately obvious (ie, no comments) why they had done that.
2012-01-18T22:41:23 < zippe> No arithmetic.
2012-01-18T22:41:42 < zippe> For a small number of global timers, you can just use an array of them
2012-01-18T22:41:55 < karlp> current code, as on pastebin, works so far, I guess I could try what happens if I set ksystick to a number about to wrap.
2012-01-18T22:42:16 < zippe> Depends on whether you're trying to write a timer, or get something else done. 8)
2012-01-18T22:42:28 < karlp> yeah, pretty much :)
2012-01-18T22:42:32 < karlp> it's working right now,
2012-01-18T22:42:43 < karlp> but it would be nice to get some code I can just never have to think about again.
2012-01-18T22:42:54 < karlp> but, the game just finished
2012-01-18T22:43:00 < karlp> so I hav eto be sociable to people again
2012-01-18T22:43:27 <+Steffanx> 'the' game?
2012-01-18T22:43:37 < karlp> the one that I couldn't care less about :)
2012-01-18T22:43:44 < karlp> euro cup handball, iceland v norway :)
2012-01-18T22:43:45 <+Steffanx> Which is? WoW?
2012-01-18T22:43:47 <+Steffanx> Aaah
2012-01-18T22:44:05 < zyp> did we (norway) win?
2012-01-18T22:44:11 < karlp> no :) we beat you :)
2012-01-18T22:44:28 < zyp> good thing I doesn't care either then :p
2012-01-18T22:44:30 < karlp> but you already have a win against slovenia.
2012-01-18T22:45:24  * jpa- puts Steffanx in a box
2012-01-18T22:45:39 <+Steffanx> No thanks
2012-01-18T22:45:40 <+Steffanx> Why?
2012-01-18T22:49:58 < jpa-> to keep you safe
2012-01-18T22:50:25 <+Steffanx> I'm old enough to keep myself safe
2012-01-18T22:51:12 < jpa-> there are zombies out there
2012-01-18T22:51:56 <+Steffanx> ok
2012-01-18T22:51:58 <+Steffanx> Who cares
2012-01-18T22:55:34 < zippe> karlp: Mostly that's why I like using an operating system,
2012-01-18T22:55:48 < zippe> Though then you end up porting the OS on a semi-regular basis
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2012-01-18T23:03:58 < karlp> zippe: I'm all for that in general.
2012-01-18T23:04:29 < karlp> but some of the samples I've seen for some of the OSs I've just felt were more complications for no benefit.
2012-01-18T23:04:43 < karlp> it's a bit of a different question now on much more fully featured arms
2012-01-18T23:05:38 < zippe> karlp: No argument; and many of them just just thread switchers
2012-01-18T23:06:01 < karlp> I have it on my list to reevaluate some of the oss :)
2012-01-18T23:06:09 < zippe> Take a good look at NuttX
2012-01-18T23:06:16 < karlp> I'm trying to make a switch from avrs for hobby projects to arm,
2012-01-18T23:06:24 < karlp> but I don't always get the amount of evening time I might like
2012-01-18T23:06:26 < zippe> If you want an operating system, as opposed to a thread switcher
2012-01-18T23:06:51 < zippe> RTEMS is also pretty solid, but much harder to get into
2012-01-18T23:08:42 < karlp> I tend to feel, perhaps without any real backing, that if it's not big enough to just run linux/uclinux, why should I bother learning another OS's system calls?
2012-01-18T23:09:30 < karlp> but, perhaps I just haven't had enough time saved by using one of the OSs and being able to port code to another cpu easily :)
2012-01-18T23:10:34 < zippe> That's another thing that I like about NuttX; it tries quite hard to look like a Posix system.
2012-01-18T23:10:35 < grummund> if linux will run the app then why not?
2012-01-18T23:11:19 < zippe> The barrier to building a low-cost linux system's still fairly high
2012-01-18T23:11:33 < zippe> If you can fab 0.5 pitch BGA PoP, then there are options
2012-01-18T23:11:40 < Thorn> many people believe that posix (no matter how stripped down) has no place on microcontrollers
2012-01-18T23:11:45 < zippe> But otherwise you are routing DDR
2012-01-18T23:11:53 < zippe> Thorn: There are plenty of places where that's true
2012-01-18T23:12:19 < Thorn> I tend to view a mcu rtos as a threading library
2012-01-18T23:12:42 < zippe> Thorn: But there's a class of systems that are big enough that some sort of system API makes sense, and if you're trying to make skill portability an issue, then that API is a reasonable choice
2012-01-18T23:12:49 < karlp> Thorn: I'm sure on micros, I'm just starting to see fullly blow linux ssytems in a form factor and cost that starts to be competitive with micros
2012-01-18T23:13:07 < Thorn> there's chibios/rt that tries to do that in a lightweight manner
2012-01-18T23:13:07 < zippe> karlp: Like the 8devices board?  Absolutely.
2012-01-18T23:13:14 < karlp> zippe: that's one. yeah.
2012-01-18T23:13:50 < Thorn> if you want a HAL you might want to look at chibios
2012-01-18T23:13:50 < zippe> Thorn: there are a number of them.  Chibi is more a scheduler and a bunch of drivers
2012-01-18T23:14:07 < zippe> RTEMS and NuttX are more an operating system with a HAL and a DDI
2012-01-18T23:14:24 < Thorn> well hugely popular freertos is just a scheduler :)
2012-01-18T23:14:39 < zippe> Ugh.  FreeRTOS is wildly overblown
2012-01-18T23:14:58 < zippe> I use scmRTOS over it anyday
2012-01-18T23:14:58 < grummund> anyone used (or heard of) embOS ?
2012-01-18T23:15:06 < karlp> that was one of the ones I looked at and went, "hang on, what? I have to do how much?"
2012-01-18T23:15:27 < Thorn> embos is segger?
2012-01-18T23:15:40 < zippe> AtomThreads is another, though the maintainer really needs more ports.
2012-01-18T23:17:07 < zippe> karlp: embOS or scmRTOS?
2012-01-18T23:18:59 < karlp> freertos
2012-01-18T23:19:19 < zippe> Oh, right.
2012-01-18T23:19:19 < karlp> it did not look appealing.
2012-01-18T23:19:30 < zippe> Richard still hasn't taken my M4 FPU context switch patches either
2012-01-18T23:19:47 < zippe> Claiming M4 support with no FPU context handling is a bit disingenuous
2012-01-18T23:26:04 < Thorn> he says saving fpu context is "horrendously inefficient"
2012-01-18T23:26:10 < Thorn> http://sourceforge.net/projects/freertos/forums/forum/382005/topic/4761747
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2012-01-18T23:27:56 < Thorn> "Only half the context can be saved automatically, so the other have has to be done manually."
2012-01-18T23:28:07 < karlp> is this because _R_tos people really think it's a good idea to interrupt in the middle of a floating point operation or something?
2012-01-18T23:28:17 < karlp> (accent on the real part of real time)
2012-01-18T23:29:05 < zippe> karlp: No, it's because v7M implements EABI in hardware
2012-01-18T23:29:28 < zippe> It saves the caller-saved registers
2012-01-18T23:29:41 < dekar_> v7M? like in ARMv7? don't we use thumb2?
2012-01-18T23:29:49 < zippe> Any function called by your interrupt handler that uses the high registers is going to save them *anyway* because they are callee-saved
2012-01-18T23:30:00 < zippe> so there is no need to stack them at exception entry time
2012-01-18T23:30:18 < zippe> Also, it will only stack the volatile registers to start with if they have actually been used
2012-01-18T23:30:37 < zippe> dekar_: v7M is the ARM architecture that the M3 and M4 conform to
2012-01-18T23:30:46  * karlp thinks he will let this one go by, and go back to his spi toys..
2012-01-18T23:31:16 < dekar_> I am glad I don't have to multitask on my stm32
2012-01-18T23:31:39 < dekar_> well I do i2c while I also get USB interrupts, but i2c is so slow it doesn't even notice :)
2012-01-18T23:31:40 < zippe> Thorn: I don't know about "horrendously".  It costs you another 16 words on the stack to push the volatile VFP state
2012-01-18T23:32:29 < dekar_> does freeRTOS have one stack per application?
2012-01-18T23:32:41 < zippe> Thorn: On an F4 running the AHB and CCSRAM at 168MHz that's one word per beat, or ~100ns
2012-01-18T23:33:30 < Thorn> 16 words is a lot of ram
2012-01-18T23:33:42 < zippe> O_o on a micro with 64K of CCSRAM?
2012-01-18T23:33:51 < Thorn> sure
2012-01-18T23:33:55 < zippe> And another 128K of slower but still quite usable RAM?
2012-01-18T23:34:24 < zippe> It's only "a lot" because you're thinking with the brain you used for a micro with 8K
2012-01-18T23:34:31 < Thorn> ah wait, it can't be nested can it
2012-01-18T23:34:38 < zippe> Thorn: It can
2012-01-18T23:34:52 < zippe> Though most folks using v7M run all their interrupts at the same priority level
2012-01-18T23:35:11 < zippe> Also, most of us use a separate interrupt stack
2012-01-18T23:35:21 < Thorn> wait, are we talking interrupts or tasks?
2012-01-18T23:35:28 < zippe> Interrupts nest
2012-01-18T23:35:45 < Thorn> that quote I gave was about freertos tasks
2012-01-18T23:35:52 < zippe> But if you are using psp for tasks, you only need space for one context below your deepest leaf
2012-01-18T23:35:54 < dekar_> doesn't the stm32 always use a separate interrupt stack?
2012-01-18T23:36:10 < zippe> Since if you nest interrupts, you will be saving nested contexts on msp
2012-01-18T23:36:26 < zippe> dekar_: No, you can run everything on msp if you like.
2012-01-18T23:36:57 < dekar_> I didn't look into that, I just saw my linker script having two stacks declared somewhere
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2012-01-18T23:37:19 < dekar_> is there any advantage in using two stacks as opposed to one bigger?
2012-01-18T23:37:53 < zippe> dekar_: Yes; it means you don't need to leave space on your thread stack for interrupt handlers
2012-01-18T23:37:55 < dekar_> since I only use the stack for my FW I increased the stack size to 8kb I think
2012-01-18T23:38:06 < zippe> dekar_: If you have a bunch of thread stacks, that can get expensive
2012-01-18T23:38:16 < dekar_> well but you need another stack with that space
2012-01-18T23:38:48 < dekar_> you're talking about thread stacks, but I don't have any OS
2012-01-18T23:39:09 < zippe> Yup, in which case you're fine as you are
2012-01-18T23:39:16 < zippe> You're probably using msp for everything, don't sweat it
2012-01-18T23:39:20 < dekar_> so for me it would just be less fragmentation right?
2012-01-18T23:39:26 < zippe> Yup
2012-01-18T23:40:01 < dekar_> I am using the codesourcery toolchain and their likerscript and I am pretty sure it has a separate interrupt stack
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2012-01-18T23:40:14 < jpa-> stack never fragments anyway :)
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2012-01-18T23:40:40 < dekar_> well, I mean less efficient memory usage, stack A has 100bytes free, but stack B already overflows
2012-01-18T23:40:50 < jpa-> true
2012-01-18T23:41:45 < dekar_> in any case my stm32f1 has 64kb ram and I only use like 4kb :)
2012-01-18T23:42:15 < karlp> 64k ram?
2012-01-18T23:42:19 < karlp> not all of them :)
2012-01-18T23:42:33 < dekar_> the one we picked for our product does
2012-01-18T23:42:49 < dekar_> my boss wanted at least 256kb flash for his disposal, dunno why
2012-01-18T23:42:57 < dekar_> we also have an micro sd socket
2012-01-18T23:43:04 < dekar_> dunno whether we'll use it
2012-01-18T23:44:59 < dekar_> the prototypes just left pick and place and should arrive in a day or two :)
2012-01-18T23:45:13 < dekar_> will post pictures :D
2012-01-18T23:45:57 < jpa-> do you think they'll work? :P
2012-01-18T23:46:05 < dekar_> yeah pretty sure
2012-01-18T23:46:40 < dekar_> at least the features I care about
2012-01-18T23:46:53 < dekar_> the EE guy added shunts and op-amps and stuff like that, dunno about that
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2012-01-18T23:47:21 < dekar_> it's up to him to test, I made him a nice GUI to test all the GPIO and ADC via USB
2012-01-18T23:48:48 < zippe> karlp: btw, there are a bunch of reasons why low interrupt latency matters, and the M3/M4 are damn good on that front.
2012-01-18T23:49:25 < zippe> karlp: However, VFP instructions aren't interruptible; only *ldm/*stm are.  The VFP in the M4 is pretty quick.
2012-01-18T23:49:39 < zippe> If you're thinking of the bad old 8087 days, don't.
2012-01-18T23:49:44 < Laurenceb_> whats VFP?
2012-01-18T23:49:58 < zippe> That's the vector/floating point unit
2012-01-18T23:50:03 < dekar_> sounds like virtual floating point, but I guess it isn't :P
2012-01-18T23:50:34 < Laurenceb_> got you
2012-01-18T23:50:51 < Laurenceb_> why does F4 have a separate DSP unit?
2012-01-18T23:50:56 < Laurenceb_> when the core can do that
2012-01-18T23:51:20 < zippe> The F4 doesn't have a separate DSP unit
2012-01-18T23:51:28 < Laurenceb_> oh
2012-01-18T23:51:31 < zippe> The CortexM4F includes the VFP
2012-01-18T23:51:37 < zippe> That's what they are calling "DSP"
2012-01-18T23:51:40 < Laurenceb_> im sure i read that somewhere
2012-01-18T23:51:41 < Laurenceb_> oh
2012-01-18T23:51:44 < Laurenceb_> got it
2012-01-18T23:51:51 < zippe> It's a #define when you synthesise the core
2012-01-18T23:52:08 < zippe> roughly doubles the size, IIRC
2012-01-18T23:52:35 < zippe> I'm still trying to decide whether it's a net benefit.
2012-01-18T23:52:36 < dekar_> are there any dualcore cortex ?C? I mean the OMAP4 in my panda board has two Cortex M1 in addition to the Cortex A
2012-01-18T23:52:51 < zippe> dekar_: v7M doesn't support SMP
2012-01-18T23:52:58 < zippe> dekar_: "cortex" is a marketing name
2012-01-18T23:53:01 < dekar_> I could see it being handy for realtime stuff when you don't feel like using an RTOS
2012-01-18T23:53:31 < dekar_> zippe, so is it bad to say cortex?
2012-01-18T23:53:41 < zippe> dekar_: there are four 'current' ARM architectures; v7A (CortexA8, CortexA9), v7R, v7M (CortexM3, CortexM4) and v6M (CortexM1, CortexM0)
2012-01-18T23:53:55 < zippe> dekar_: It's just not enough information by itself
2012-01-18T23:54:03 < zippe> Say CortexM3 and you're OK
2012-01-18T23:54:08 < zippe> But "Cortex" doesn't help
2012-01-18T23:54:20 < dekar_> zippe, I said cortex m1
2012-01-18T23:54:26 < zippe> A8 and A9 are the "large" cores.  A15 is another v7A core.
2012-01-18T23:54:44 < dekar_> yeah I know the A series is the kickass one with MMU etc :)
2012-01-18T23:54:44 < zippe> I was referring to "dualcore cortex ?C?"
2012-01-18T23:55:04 < zippe> A5 and A7 are the "small" A series cores.
2012-01-18T23:55:05 < dekar_> oh, that was a micro sign
2012-01-18T23:55:14 < dekar_> I guess encoding killed it
2012-01-18T23:55:26 < zippe> A9, A5 and A6 are all available in "MPCore" versions that support some form of SMP.
2012-01-18T23:55:30 < dekar_> I meant uc aka microcontrollers
2012-01-18T23:55:40 < zippe> er, sorry, not A6, A7
2012-01-18T23:56:01 < zippe> I say "some form" because they mostly work well in groups of the same processor
2012-01-18T23:56:14 < zippe> Mixing say an A5 and a couple of A9s doesn't always work well.
2012-01-18T23:56:28 < dekar_> zippe, http://pastebin.com/GjAKdSsc
2012-01-18T23:56:32 < zippe> You can do it, and ARM are pushing it in their BIG.little initiative
2012-01-18T23:56:32 < dekar_> micro sign :)
2012-01-18T23:56:46 < zippe> Yeah, I know now that you meant µ
2012-01-18T23:57:54 < dekar_> zippe, so since my OMAP4 Cortex A SoC includes _two_ CortexM1 on the same chip, I was wondering if there was such a setup without the big CortexA
2012-01-18T23:57:57 < zippe> With the M cores, there is no real support for SMP.  You can certainly put them into a system with others.
2012-01-18T23:58:11 < zippe> dekar_: I haven't seen any mainstream designs.
2012-01-18T23:58:22 < zippe> Freescale have been talking about an M4/A5 combo.
2012-01-18T23:59:00 < Thorn> there're dual core m3s but they're redundant
2012-01-18T23:59:10 < dekar_> I somehow don't like the idea of having an OS on a uC
2012-01-18T23:59:26 < zippe> dekar_: Why not?  It's just another computer.  Heck, go look at RetroBSD
2012-01-18T23:59:37 < dekar_> they don't even have an mmu -.-"
2012-01-18T23:59:40 < zippe> They're running 2BSD on a pic32
2012-01-18T23:59:45 < dekar_> idk, it feels wrong XD
--- Day changed Thu Jan 19 2012
2012-01-19T00:00:02 < zippe> dekar_: Ah, preconceptions.
2012-01-19T00:00:10 < dekar_> I just started with uCs a year ago, so it's more of a stomach feeling, just in the final phase of my first project
2012-01-19T00:00:40 < dekar_> you can't properly implement virtual memoiry
2012-01-19T00:00:44 < dekar_> *memory
2012-01-19T00:00:46 < zippe> So?
2012-01-19T00:01:28 < dekar_> you can use it for scheduling, I see that, but you'd have a hard time to enable swap and run GCC on it
2012-01-19T00:01:30 < Thorn> actually those are r4f http://www.ti.com/mcu/docs/mcuproductcontentnp.tsp?sectionId=95&familyId=1870&tabId=2824
2012-01-19T00:01:47 < zippe> Ah, the R4
2012-01-19T00:01:55 < Thorn> Dual core lockstep
2012-01-19T00:02:10 < zippe> I have avoided v7R
2012-01-19T00:02:23 < zippe> dekar_: again, so?
2012-01-19T00:02:58 < dekar_> zippe, idk, might have its niche? but when I want an OS I want something proper XD
2012-01-19T00:03:01 < zippe> dekar_: I realise you're just getting started; can I encourage you to assume that people aren't all stupid, and that often they have reasons for doing things, and that learning those reasons can only make you smarter? 8)
2012-01-19T00:03:46 < zippe> dekar_: when I want an operating system, it's because I don't want to have to write the same code over again
2012-01-19T00:03:47 < zippe> dekar_: Pick the tools for the job
2012-01-19T00:04:13 < zippe> dekar_: Sometimes you need a room full of machines, sometimes Mealy machine in a tiny LUT will do the job.
2012-01-19T00:04:20 < zippe> s/Mealy/a Mealy/
2012-01-19T00:04:35 < dekar_> zippe, if you just want to switch between a few tasks it is okay I guess, but it's not like those small RTOS bring you a bazillion of drivers and a million other advantages like linux does
2012-01-19T00:05:21 < dekar_> on the other hand the stm32 doesn't even have pci-e XD
2012-01-19T00:05:35 < zippe> dekar_: Again with the preconceptions.
2012-01-19T00:05:55 < zippe> dekar_: if you're building a thermostat, do you need PCI?
2012-01-19T00:06:08 < zippe> dekar_: even a really spiffy thermostat like the Nest doesn't.
2012-01-19T00:06:36 < zippe> dekar_: Do you know what operating system runs on something like the iPod Nano?
2012-01-19T00:06:49 < dekar_> zippe, well I just made my stm32 into an USB to I2C adapter and I guess I could have picked some small 8bit uC instead
2012-01-19T00:07:18 < zippe> dekar_: Yup, or used one of e.g. the SiLabs fixed-function devices that does the same thing.
2012-01-19T00:07:50 < dekar_> zippe, we used to use an FTDI2232c before, it was horrid failure
2012-01-19T00:08:13 < Thorn> why no cheap fpga+cortex-m chips out there?
2012-01-19T00:08:27 < dekar_> so I wanted to have a generic solution allowing me to bit bang it in any way I like it to be
2012-01-19T00:08:53 < zippe> Thorn: you've seen the Microsemi devices?
2012-01-19T00:09:00 < zippe> http://www.actel.com/products/smartfusion/default.aspx
2012-01-19T00:09:20 < zippe> They have a $100 eval board I keep meaning to pick up
2012-01-19T00:09:25 < Thorn> I have but I believe those aren't cheap
2012-01-19T00:09:34 < Thorn> or are they?
2012-01-19T00:10:01 < dekar_> zippe, I picked the stm32 cause I found a cheap board on futurlec without knowing what I bought :)
2012-01-19T00:10:49 < dekar_> besides the stupid XFP connector/cage on our PCB costs more than the stm32
2012-01-19T00:10:57 < dekar_> so it doesn't really matter
2012-01-19T00:11:00 < zippe> Thorn: Depends on what counts as cheap; about $30 each on DigiKey
2012-01-19T00:11:13 < Thorn> single units?
2012-01-19T00:11:25 < zippe> That's the 200kgate version
2012-01-19T00:11:33 < zippe> There's a much smaller (60k) version that I'm not seeing
2012-01-19T00:11:39 < dekar_> and I already knew ARMv4/thumb1 assembly from university
2012-01-19T00:12:22 < dekar_> do those fpga/uC have any cool features? like are the peripherals fast?
2012-01-19T00:12:40 < dekar_> mighty ADCs maybe?
2012-01-19T00:12:41 < zippe> The smartfusion part is MSP
2012-01-19T00:12:52 < zippe> Read the page I linked, lots of details
2012-01-19T00:14:35 < Thorn> ouch, a2f200 starts from $53 locally
2012-01-19T00:15:46 < Thorn> 4608 DFFs is not exactly a lot but you do have many hard peripherals and a cpu core
2012-01-19T00:16:42 < dekar_> neat those fpga I/Os do 350mhz according to the datasheet :)
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2012-01-19T00:16:55 < zippe1> Or their yield is crap
2012-01-19T00:16:57 < Thorn> 16550 UART listed as a peripheral(!)
2012-01-19T00:18:09 < dekar_> they mention LVDS, PCI, PCI-X
2012-01-19T00:18:17 < dekar_> at that point I'd like to run linux on it
2012-01-19T00:18:19 < dekar_> XD
2012-01-19T00:18:28 < Thorn> and they do seem to have pqfp208 packages
2012-01-19T00:18:59 < Thorn> with no EMC :(
2012-01-19T00:19:08 < dekar_> what's EMC?
2012-01-19T00:19:16 < Thorn> external memory controller
2012-01-19T00:19:31 < Thorn> standart ARM peripheral for SRAM/SDRAMs
2012-01-19T00:19:36 < dekar_> hm, yeah I'd like some SDRAM :)
2012-01-19T00:19:46 < Thorn> BGA then
2012-01-19T00:19:54 < Thorn> not a problem for you I guess :)
2012-01-19T00:20:50 < dekar_> not at all
2012-01-19T00:21:12 < zippe1> No MMU though
2012-01-19T00:21:25 < zippe1> You could build one in the FPGA
2012-01-19T00:21:28 < Thorn> they have MPU
2012-01-19T00:21:42 < Thorn> can't have a MMU in M3
2012-01-19T00:21:44 < zippe1> ARM PMSA is annoying
2012-01-19T00:21:59 < zippe1> No reason you couldn't have an external MMU
2012-01-19T00:22:28 < dekar_> I don't feel like building my own MMU actually
2012-01-19T00:22:34 < zippe1> 8)
2012-01-19T00:22:43 < zippe1> There aren't a lot of real SoCs with them
2012-01-19T00:22:53 < dekar_> I would rather write my own java VM and just use java code for the firmware without any pointers :)
2012-01-19T00:23:03 < zippe1> The new Ti device on the Beagle Bone is a good start, but still requires external SRAM
2012-01-19T00:23:19 < zippe1> dekar_: rather than Java, have you looked at Pymite or Squirrel?
2012-01-19T00:23:35 < dekar_> nope, never heard of those
2012-01-19T00:23:51 < zippe1> You should.  There are a lot of 'small' scripting languages
2012-01-19T00:23:55 < Thorn> there's scheme and lua for cm3
2012-01-19T00:24:03 < zippe1> Lua is … *shudder&
2012-01-19T00:24:04 < dekar_> I actually plan on sticking with C/C++ - after 3 years of usage I finally feel like I know most of the C++ oddities
2012-01-19T00:24:07 < zippe1> Not my favorite.
2012-01-19T00:24:12 < zippe1> *rofl*
2012-01-19T00:24:13 < Thorn> they take half of the resources
2012-01-19T00:24:25 -!- zippe1 is now known as zippe
2012-01-19T00:24:34 < dekar_> and I totally hate scheme
2012-01-19T00:24:37 < dekar_> will never ever use that again
2012-01-19T00:24:57 < zippe> Ficl is definitely a candidate if you are tight on resources
2012-01-19T00:24:58 < dekar_> (+ 3 4) -.-"
2012-01-19T00:25:05 < Thorn> game developers love and adore lua and write incomprehensible code in it
2012-01-19T00:25:30 < dekar_> yeah I'd probably go for lua as well, heard good things about it
2012-01-19T00:25:51 < dekar_> it supposedly has an incredibly small interpreter and integrates tightly with C
2012-01-19T00:25:52 < Thorn> it's javascript made different lol
2012-01-19T00:26:08 < dekar_> meh, I avoided JS for such a long time
2012-01-19T00:26:22 < dekar_> but I recently started using it for QML/Qt anyway
2012-01-19T00:26:46 < Thorn> same ideas there (tables (= objects in js) and prototypes)
2012-01-19T00:28:20 < zippe> Squirrel was actually a reaction to Lua's issues
2012-01-19T00:28:33 < Thorn> I wonder if you can develop for that microsemi chip with free tools
2012-01-19T00:28:34 < zippe> inre: the games industry
2012-01-19T00:28:38 < dekar_> now that I think about it, there is this other language that tightly integrated with C and has an even smaller interpreter
2012-01-19T00:28:50 < zippe> Thorn: When you say "free", do you mean "not payware" or "opensource"?
2012-01-19T00:28:52 < Thorn> i.e. synthetizer, place&route etc
2012-01-19T00:28:55 < dekar_> GCC supports it using __asm__("NOP");
2012-01-19T00:28:55 < Thorn> $0
2012-01-19T00:28:55 < zippe> There are no opensource FPGA tools
2012-01-19T00:29:07 < zippe> Yes, they offer a $0 license for Windows and Linux
2012-01-19T00:29:20 < Thorn> gcc does support the cm3 in it
2012-01-19T00:29:20 < zippe> The "gold" edition of the Libero suite is a freebie
2012-01-19T00:29:39 < Thorn> and what about the jtag adapter? $300 or so?
2012-01-19T00:31:22 < Thorn> btw I think icarus verilog was going to get some low level (technology mapping etc) sopport for some fpgas
2012-01-19T00:33:36 < dekar_> zippe, what are you using RTOS' on the stm32 for?
2012-01-19T00:33:42 < dekar_> just scheduling?
2012-01-19T00:34:06 < zippe> dekar_: scheduling, code factoring, code reuse
2012-01-19T00:34:40 < zippe> Thorn: jtag for the actel thing?  It looked like they were using an FTDI on their eval board
2012-01-19T00:34:41 < dekar_> how does an RTOS help for code reuse? does it support dynamic linking?
2012-01-19T00:35:18 < Thorn> interesting, maybe I do need to get that eval kit
2012-01-19T00:35:38 < Thorn> you still reflash your mcu every time so no point in dynamic linking
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2012-01-19T00:37:10 < dekar_> oh, you do have to do that? I wrote a bootloader for my stm32 loading a second FW, I thought once you had an RTOS you'd just reflash the particular applications
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2012-01-19T00:37:50 < zippe1> So I get TCP, IPC, device drivers, debug infrastructure, etc. etc.
2012-01-19T00:37:55 < Thorn> not on a mcu (at least I've never heard of such things except maybe for spacecraft)
2012-01-19T00:38:03 < zippe1> If I had a display, I'd have a widget toolkit as well
2012-01-19T00:38:26 < zippe1> dekar_: Yes, the OS I'm using actually supports applications in a separate ROM 'partition'
2012-01-19T00:38:28 < dekar_> tcp is nice I guess :)
2012-01-19T00:38:29 < Thorn> but spacecraft don't use mcus anyway
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2012-01-19T00:38:37 < dekar_> but my stm32 lacks an ethernet mac
2012-01-19T00:38:53 < zippe1> dekar_: I'm not writing code for your stm32
2012-01-19T00:39:09 < dekar_> what are you using?
2012-01-19T00:39:19 < zippe1> F405
2012-01-19T00:39:37 < dekar_> neat :)
2012-01-19T00:40:00 < zippe1> (actually, I have a bunch of projects on the go using the F103, F405, mf5270, A5, A7, etc. etc.)
2012-01-19T00:40:13 < dekar_> they all will use the same OS?
2012-01-19T00:40:20 < zippe1> There's a mix
2012-01-19T00:40:22 < dekar_> which RTOS is it?
2012-01-19T00:40:29 < zippe1> Several will be using NuttX
2012-01-19T00:40:52 < zippe1> A couple are using libopencm3
2012-01-19T00:41:04 < zippe1> I have a number of AVR projects in the field using scmRTOS
2012-01-19T00:41:16 < dekar_> if it wasn't GPL I'd use it as well
2012-01-19T00:41:36 < zippe1> Yeah, that does make life a bit harder
2012-01-19T00:41:36 < dekar_> libopencm3 I mean
2012-01-19T00:41:50 < zippe1> It's good for lab projects, bad for deployment
2012-01-19T00:41:56 < dekar_> it just isn't an option for our company, I asked and I got told I wasn't allowed to
2012-01-19T00:42:52 <+Steffanx> So when do you make an non-GPL libopencm3 ? :)
2012-01-19T00:42:54 <+Steffanx> dekar_
2012-01-19T00:43:16 < dekar_> Steffanx, never?
2012-01-19T00:43:23 <+Steffanx> Why not?
2012-01-19T00:43:28 < dekar_> why would I?
2012-01-19T00:43:37 < dekar_> I rather play with my Cyclone IV GX
2012-01-19T00:43:42 <+Steffanx> because the license sucks and the libs from st suck too
2012-01-19T00:43:57 < dekar_> Steffanx, my stm32 project is 99% finished
2012-01-19T00:44:07 < Thorn> what's that second actel device near usb? http://www.actel.com/products/hardware/devkits_boards/smartfusion_eval.aspx
2012-01-19T00:44:08 < zippe1> That's the problem with kids these days
2012-01-19T00:44:26 < Thorn> looks like this is the jtag
2012-01-19T00:44:31 < zippe1> Thorn: Sorry, I got distracted; you're right, that's their programmer and I have no idea what the standalone version costs
2012-01-19T00:44:48 <+Steffanx> Problems, kids zippe1 ?
2012-01-19T00:45:06 < dekar_> zippe1, what's the problem? they don't feel like copying an open source project into another open source project?
2012-01-19T00:45:18 < dekar_> seriously, I have better things to do
2012-01-19T00:45:27 < zippe1> Thorn: Ah, they call it "FlashPro", and it's $50
2012-01-19T00:45:34 < Thorn> now that's nice
2012-01-19T00:45:37 < zyp> I'll probably put a BSD license or something on my stm32 lib if it ever gets release-worthy
2012-01-19T00:46:12 < dekar_> just multi license it so the user is free to pick any license he likes :)
2012-01-19T00:46:23 < dekar_> I like HIDAPI, I think it has like 3 licenses
2012-01-19T00:46:28 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-19T00:46:47 < zippe1> Ugh, wait.  They discontinued that; the replacement is $150
2012-01-19T00:48:22 < zyp> I like the thought behind GPL, but I don't like how GPL is causing incompatibilities between different pieces of software
2012-01-19T00:49:00 < zippe1> Thorn: No, I am even more stupid.  FlashPro4 is the current version, and it lists for $49
2012-01-19T00:49:08 -!- zippe1 is now known as zippe
2012-01-19T00:51:53 < dekar_> can't you just use any jtag adapter and opened?
2012-01-19T00:52:01 < Thorn> I found FlashproLite at a local distributor for ~$300
2012-01-19T00:52:11 < dekar_> *openocd
2012-01-19T00:52:19 < Thorn> need to investigate further when I do get to it
2012-01-19T00:52:54 < Thorn> no idea what the RVI header is but it doesn't sound like JTAG :)
2012-01-19T00:53:55 < dekar_> they don't have jtag?
2012-01-19T00:54:19 < Thorn> can't say, need to rtfm
2012-01-19T00:54:22 < dekar_> "FlashPro programmers provide everything you need to program flash FPGAs for compliance with IEEE 1149, using the JTAG port."
2012-01-19T01:00:19 < Thorn> waht's the correct way to design reset for a stm32 device? many developemtn boards have a jumper between /RST and /JTRSRT
2012-01-19T01:00:38 < Thorn> does that depend on the jtag adapter and software you're using?
2012-01-19T01:01:06 < Thorn> */JTRST
2012-01-19T01:01:25 < dekar_> I have one thing I noticed, though have to investigate further. My stm32f1 doesn't enumerate when plugged into an USB3 port. So far I tried two laptops and the problem existed on both.
2012-01-19T01:01:42 <+Steffanx> :(
2012-01-19T01:02:09 < dekar_> though people reported problems with other USB2 devices as well
2012-01-19T01:02:19 < dekar_> only with some though
2012-01-19T01:02:29 < dekar_> and I don't know how to debug that on their windows systems -.-"
2012-01-19T01:04:44 < zippe> Thorn: RVI is ARM's debug tools (RealView Ice).  That is the standard 20-pin ARM 'JTAG' connector
2012-01-19T01:04:58 < zippe> Thorn: Don't bridge RST and JTRST
2012-01-19T01:05:07 < zippe> Otherwise you will never be able to JTAG out of reset
2012-01-19T01:05:14 < Thorn> ah good, then openocd and standard adapters do have a chance
2012-01-19T01:05:42 < zippe> IIRC, the STM32 datasheet has their recommended reset circuit
2012-01-19T01:06:00 < zippe> Basically a pullup to VDD, switch to ground, and a small bypass cap on the switch
2012-01-19T01:06:31 < Thorn> I'm looking at their eval board schematic, they do have a jumper between /rst & /trst
2012-01-19T01:06:40 < dekar_> Steffanx, you've used USB as well, didn't you?
2012-01-19T01:06:48 <+Steffanx> No, wasn't me
2012-01-19T01:06:51 < dekar_> hm
2012-01-19T01:06:58 < dekar_> who was it then? XD
2012-01-19T01:06:59 < zippe> Thorn: You can certainly do it, but there's no need
2012-01-19T01:07:04 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_  maybe?
2012-01-19T01:07:05 < Thorn> some board had DTR or some other rs-232 signal connected to rst :)
2012-01-19T01:07:14 < zippe> And as I noted, it means you can't JTAG the board while the SoC is in reset
2012-01-19T01:07:19 < dekar_> Laurenceb Laurenceb_ do you use USB? :D
2012-01-19T01:07:27 < Thorn> but is there any use for that? why'd they do that?
2012-01-19T01:07:27 < Laurenceb_> ive got usb mass storage and usb-serial working yes
2012-01-19T01:07:44 < zippe> Thorn: That's the Arduino Way.  EmbeddedArtists do it on their lpceXpresso baseboard
2012-01-19T01:08:07 < zippe> Thorn: If your JTAG tools are dumb and don't know how to reset the TAP chain, that can help
2012-01-19T01:08:22 < zippe> Or if your JTAG tools are dumb and don't have separate TRST and SRST signals
2012-01-19T01:08:31 < Thorn> so you can reset the TAP by pressing the reset button?
2012-01-19T01:08:35 < zippe> Yes
2012-01-19T01:08:42 < zippe> Or you can reset the system by resetting the TAP
2012-01-19T01:08:54 < Laurenceb_> check my github for mass storage
2012-01-19T01:08:55 < zippe> For ADIv5, there's really no need
2012-01-19T01:09:11 < zippe> As there's a bit in the debug block that lets you reset the SoC
2012-01-19T01:09:19 < Thorn> that's what I'm wondering about: resetting the peripherals when the TAP is reset, do I need that or not
2012-01-19T01:09:24 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, I was wondering whether you had enumeration problems on windows/USB3 ports
2012-01-19T01:09:27 < zippe> No, you don't want that
2012-01-19T01:09:57 < Laurenceb_> dekar_: usb3?!
2012-01-19T01:10:01 < zippe> It's possible to get the STM32 into a state where you can't jtag it, and it's possible to get into that state very quickly out of reset
2012-01-19T01:10:10 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, I am myself implementing HID and it just doesn't enumerate on windows7 when plugged into an USB3 port
2012-01-19T01:10:13 < Laurenceb_> it works on windows 7 and xp
2012-01-19T01:10:21 < Laurenceb_> with usb2 ports
2012-01-19T01:10:22 < dekar_> I have seen that behavior on two PCs on my co-workers
2012-01-19T01:10:22 < zippe> The way to get yourself out of the hole is to jam SRST low and then reflash over JTAG
2012-01-19T01:10:23 < Thorn> okay thanks. actually I recall the openocd manual had a discussion on resets. need th check that
2012-01-19T01:10:26 < Laurenceb_> i dont have any usb3
2012-01-19T01:10:39 < Thorn> but I thought the TAP still runs when the stm32 is in reset?
2012-01-19T01:10:42 < zippe> If you have tied SRST to TRST, you can't do that, for obvious reasons
2012-01-19T01:10:44 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, usb2 works for me fine on WindowsXP/Vista/7, OSX and linux
2012-01-19T01:10:50 < Laurenceb_> ok, me too
2012-01-19T01:10:54 < Thorn> or is is jtag-commanded reset only?
2012-01-19T01:10:57 < Laurenceb_> i dont have anything with usb3
2012-01-19T01:11:00 < Laurenceb_> as im poor
2012-01-19T01:11:09 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, any idea how to debug USB on windows? I barely use windows -.-"
2012-01-19T01:11:11 < Laurenceb_> :(
2012-01-19T01:11:16 < Laurenceb_> heh nope
2012-01-19T01:11:19 < zippe> Thorn: It does.  Unless you have hardwired TRST to SRST, in which case the TAP is stuck in reset while you are holding SRST
2012-01-19T01:11:21 < dekar_> it just does nothing, no "new device" bubble etc
2012-01-19T01:11:27 < Laurenceb_> all ive done is plugged into my firends machines
2012-01-19T01:11:28 < dekar_> nothing in device manager
2012-01-19T01:11:35 < Laurenceb_> and it works so *shrug*
2012-01-19T01:11:42 < dekar_> :/
2012-01-19T01:11:44 < Laurenceb_> ive never even booted windows for >5years
2012-01-19T01:12:06 < Laurenceb_> well probably a slight exaggeration but..
2012-01-19T01:12:15 < Thorn> ah I see now... thanks.
2012-01-19T01:12:22 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, my prototypes are coming in these days and we wanna manufacture 250 soon - so I want to get that sorted
2012-01-19T01:12:33 < Laurenceb_> ##windows  ?
2012-01-19T01:12:38 < dekar_> ha, I guess
2012-01-19T01:13:01 < zippe>             /*
2012-01-19T01:13:02 < zippe>              * Repeated start insanity: We can't disable ITEVTEN or else SB
2012-01-19T01:13:02 < zippe>              * won't interrupt, but if we don't disable ITEVTEN, BTF will
2012-01-19T01:13:02 < zippe>              * continually interrupt us. What the fuck ST?
2012-01-19T01:13:02 < zippe>              */
2012-01-19T01:13:07 < dekar_> Laurenceb_, though I feel like it could be related to their drivers, they also reported problems with other devices
2012-01-19T01:13:15 < Laurenceb_> zippe: yes
2012-01-19T01:13:16 < dekar_> so annoying
2012-01-19T01:13:18 < Laurenceb_> epic lols
2012-01-19T01:13:31 < zippe> I2C is just evil on so very many levels
2012-01-19T01:13:46 <+Steffanx> I avoid i2c as much as possible
2012-01-19T01:13:48 < Laurenceb_> that explains my _latest_ i2c failures
2012-01-19T01:14:07 < Laurenceb_> ill try again tomorrow as im not in the mood at 11.15pm
2012-01-19T01:14:11 < zippe> 8)
2012-01-19T01:14:18 < dekar_> That's why I only do I2C in software XD
2012-01-19T01:14:26 <+Steffanx> SPI :D
2012-01-19T01:14:29 < zippe> CAN
2012-01-19T01:14:30 < zippe> LIN
2012-01-19T01:14:35 < dekar_> ETHERNET
2012-01-19T01:14:37 < Laurenceb_> software i2c?
2012-01-19T01:14:46 < dekar_> Laurenceb_ yeah software I2C
2012-01-19T01:14:46 < Laurenceb_> bitbanged... no thats even worse
2012-01-19T01:14:47 < zippe> software i2c is usually worse
2012-01-19T01:15:01 < Laurenceb_> bitbanging is the worst thing ever :P
2012-01-19T01:15:02 < dekar_> well I use the status register, I poll that in a loop
2012-01-19T01:15:21 < dekar_> but I'll probably switch to bit-bang for more control
2012-01-19T01:15:23 < Thorn> i2c itself is great, i2c by ST isn't exactly
2012-01-19T01:15:34 < dekar_> my device is about supporting broken I2C slaves
2012-01-19T01:15:44 < zippe> If I2C is so great, why does every single I2C controller suck massively?
2012-01-19T01:15:48 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-01-19T01:16:02 < Laurenceb_> bit banging is the reason XMOS sucks
2012-01-19T01:16:03 < dekar_> we have slaves that crash (until power cycle) when accessed from our old product (FT2232c)
2012-01-19T01:16:03 < zippe> I have used more than I can count
2012-01-19T01:16:16 < Thorn> they can't go to opencores.org and download a good one?
2012-01-19T01:16:17 < zippe> I still don't remember one that didn't completely stink
2012-01-19T01:16:24 < zippe> Thorn: There isn't a good one there.
2012-01-19T01:16:27 < Laurenceb_> i still dont get the idea of XMOS.. it seems nuts
2012-01-19T01:17:47 < dekar_> XMOS sounds cool (just from reading their page)
2012-01-19T01:17:56 < dekar_> sounds like an event driven declarative language
2012-01-19T01:18:00 < dekar_> I like :)
2012-01-19T01:18:07 < Laurenceb_> up to the point where you bitbang _everything_
2012-01-19T01:18:18 < Laurenceb_> wasting all the lovely cores
2012-01-19T01:18:27 < dekar_> just get more
2012-01-19T01:18:34 < dekar_> -> problem solved
2012-01-19T01:18:36 < dekar_> :D
2012-01-19T01:18:59 < zyp> Laurenceb_, in other words; software defined peripherals
2012-01-19T01:18:59 < Thorn> gpio on cortex-m is much slower than the core
2012-01-19T01:19:36 < Thorn> and is not very predictable because it's 2 buses away
2012-01-19T01:19:56 < zippe> Thorn: Actually, at least on STM32 they put the GPIOs on the AHB
2012-01-19T01:20:21 < zippe> But writes are, I believe, still buffered
2012-01-19T01:20:50  * Laurenceb_ zzzzz
2012-01-19T01:20:57 < Laurenceb_> ...snore.
2012-01-19T01:21:27 <+Steffanx> What?
2012-01-19T01:21:33 <+Steffanx> It's only 11.20 there..
2012-01-19T01:21:41 <+Steffanx> pm
2012-01-19T01:21:47 < Thorn> aren't gpio ports on APB2? you need to enable APB2 clocks to use gpio ports
2012-01-19T01:21:50 < Laurenceb_> same here, i have work tomorrow :P
2012-01-19T01:21:51 < Laurenceb_> cya
2012-01-19T01:21:58 <+Steffanx> Here it's 0.20AM LO
2012-01-19T01:23:19 < dekar_> 12:23 AM here
2012-01-19T01:23:31 < dekar_> Steffanx, your clock is off :P
2012-01-19T01:23:49 <+Steffanx> No it isn't
2012-01-19T01:24:00 <+Steffanx> I typed 20, but it was 21
2012-01-19T01:26:04 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-01-19T01:30:07 -!- izua [~izua@188.26.166.11] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-19T01:30:07 -!- izua [~izua@188.26.166.11] has quit [Changing host]
2012-01-19T01:30:07 -!- izua [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-19T01:30:09 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v izua] by ChanServ
2012-01-19T01:31:54 < dekar_> izua, hey
2012-01-19T01:32:04 < dekar_> did you ever use usb on your stm32?
2012-01-19T01:32:20 < dekar_> mine don't enumerate on windows7 usb3 ports
2012-01-19T01:32:27 <+izua> hey
2012-01-19T01:32:36 <+izua> i've messed around with libopenstm32
2012-01-19T01:32:41 <+izua> but it took a while, yeah
2012-01-19T01:32:45 <+izua> first failed cables
2012-01-19T01:32:51 <+izua> and then i got the same issue on usb3
2012-01-19T01:32:56 < dekar_> orly?
2012-01-19T01:32:58 <+izua> but then again, i never installed usb3 drivers
2012-01-19T01:33:04 < dekar_> usb2 ports work?
2012-01-19T01:33:08 <+izua> yep
2012-01-19T01:33:12 < dekar_> usb3 don't?
2012-01-19T01:33:19 < dekar_> what is that crap?
2012-01-19T01:33:28 < dekar_> I get that using the official st lib
2012-01-19T01:33:37 < dekar_> at least for those two laptops I tried it on
2012-01-19T01:34:09 < dekar_> I wonder whether that's a general problem with the stm32
2012-01-19T01:34:47 <+izua> or the lack of widespread adoption of usb3 and thus lack of actually working standards? :P
2012-01-19T01:35:16 < dekar_> izua, but I have seen it on two USB3 controllers, some other devices I tried worked
2012-01-19T01:35:34 < dekar_> we'll manufacture 250 of those boards soon
2012-01-19T01:35:36 <+izua> other usb or usb3 devices?
2012-01-19T01:35:41 < Thorn> does the host attempt enumeration at all?
2012-01-19T01:35:44 < dekar_> other usb2 devices
2012-01-19T01:35:50 <+izua> usb/usb2
2012-01-19T01:35:52 < dekar_> idk, my co-workers use windows
2012-01-19T01:35:53 <+izua> odd
2012-01-19T01:35:54 < dekar_> usb2
2012-01-19T01:36:04 <+izua> maybe it's a driver problem
2012-01-19T01:36:14 < dekar_> ftdi2232c works fine on the usb3 port
2012-01-19T01:36:28 <+izua> for example, the usb3 ports on my box need a lot of shit, they have the drivers, some daemon running in userspace, and even a small tray icon!
2012-01-19T01:36:30 <+izua> which blinks, too!
2012-01-19T01:36:39 < dekar_> lol
2012-01-19T01:36:44 <+izua> very odd
2012-01-19T01:36:52 <+izua> maybe it's a stm32 problem after all
2012-01-19T01:36:54 < dekar_> still ftdi2232c works
2012-01-19T01:36:55 <+izua> i thought it was just me
2012-01-19T01:36:57 <+izua> yeah
2012-01-19T01:36:57 < dekar_> stm32 doesn't
2012-01-19T01:37:06 <+izua> kind of isolates it as the problem
2012-01-19T01:37:10 < dekar_> and I am pretty sure my USB descriptor and stuff is error free
2012-01-19T01:37:16 <+izua> hehe
2012-01-19T01:37:19 < dekar_> windows HID driver loads fine
2012-01-19T01:37:19 <+izua> you should make a dongle
2012-01-19T01:37:25 <+izua> with those epic descriptors you failed
2012-01-19T01:37:25 < dekar_> linux kernel reports no errors in dmesg
2012-01-19T01:37:29 <+izua> and call it the "dongle of bsod"
2012-01-19T01:37:30 < dekar_> haha yeah
2012-01-19T01:37:40 <+izua> and write on it stuff like "64GB"
2012-01-19T01:37:43 <+izua> "free porn"
2012-01-19T01:37:44 <+izua> etc\
2012-01-19T01:37:57 < dekar_> "whole internets on one stick!"
2012-01-19T01:37:59 <+izua> and i bet $x where x >100, people will keep retrying
2012-01-19T01:38:30 < dekar_> izua, man that's an annoying problem -.-"
2012-01-19T01:38:37 < dekar_> I'll buy an usb2 analyzer I think
2012-01-19T01:38:42 <+izua> o_O
2012-01-19T01:38:48 <+izua> buy 2
2012-01-19T01:38:50 <+izua> one for backup
2012-01-19T01:38:52 < dekar_> only like 2-3 weeks left till we'll start the production
2012-01-19T01:38:55 <+izua> storeit offsite in case of disaster
2012-01-19T01:38:56 < dekar_> yeah will buy 2
2012-01-19T01:38:58 <+izua> i know the perfect place
2012-01-19T01:39:02 < dekar_> at my place
2012-01-19T01:39:03 <+izua> happens to  be my adress too
2012-01-19T01:39:03 < dekar_> :D
2012-01-19T01:39:12 <+izua> +d
2012-01-19T01:39:34 < dekar_> seriously, I think it'd suck to build and ship 250 of a product that doesn't work on usb3 ports
2012-01-19T01:39:43 < dekar_> isn't the stm32 USB2 certified?
2012-01-19T01:39:48 <+izua> write on it "usb2 certified" or something
2012-01-19T01:39:53 <+izua> _mention_ usb2
2012-01-19T01:40:01 <+izua> so it will look like the user's fault
2012-01-19T01:40:02 < dekar_> man, that's still fucked up
2012-01-19T01:40:04 <+izua> if he plugs it in usb3
2012-01-19T01:40:08 <+izua> marketing at its best
2012-01-19T01:40:15 < dekar_> _fucked up_
2012-01-19T01:40:23 <+izua> that is incredibly odd nonetheless
2012-01-19T01:40:31 < dekar_> nontheless
2012-01-19T01:40:33 < dekar_> yeah
2012-01-19T01:40:43 <+izua> i wonder if it's widespread
2012-01-19T01:40:53 < dekar_> oh I was wrong
2012-01-19T01:40:56 < dekar_> nonetheless
2012-01-19T01:40:58 < dekar_> O.o
2012-01-19T01:41:01 <+izua> oh?
2012-01-19T01:41:47 < dekar_> izua, I will try the versaloon today
2012-01-19T01:41:54 < dekar_> it's also stm32
2012-01-19T01:42:05 < dekar_> also it doesn't use the st library
2012-01-19T01:42:22 < dekar_> I think he wrote his own, or just used assembly :)
2012-01-19T01:42:44 < dekar_> but I feel like it won't work with usb3 as well
2012-01-19T01:43:45 < dekar_> izua, any idea on how to analyze USB on windows?
2012-01-19T01:43:47 <+izua> try it
2012-01-19T01:43:49 <+izua> do eeeet
2012-01-19T01:44:09 <+izua> run windows in virtualbox, passthrough usb, use linux tools? :D
2012-01-19T01:44:26 <+izua> no idea though
2012-01-19T01:44:27 < dekar_> for USB3? I don't think there are USB3 drivers for linux
2012-01-19T01:44:50 < dekar_> virtualbox is only USB2 as well iirc
2012-01-19T01:45:44 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-19T01:46:11 < dekar_> I'll get an USB2 analyzer then
2012-01-19T01:46:14 < dekar_> -.-
2012-01-19T01:47:12 < dekar_> affordable! *cough cough* http://www.totalphase.com/products/beagle_usb480/
2012-01-19T01:47:54 <+izua> notice the 480 part?
2012-01-19T01:48:24 < zippe> Yeah, that's pretty cheap actually.
2012-01-19T01:48:25 < dekar_> you suggest getting a 12mbit/s one?
2012-01-19T01:48:59 < zyp> stm32 only support 12mbit/s without external phy anyway
2012-01-19T01:49:03 <+Steffanx> dekar_ .. there's an (open source) project. Called openvizsla.
2012-01-19T01:49:10 <+Steffanx> It looks very dead though
2012-01-19T01:49:14 < zyp> oh, openvizsla
2012-01-19T01:49:18 <+izua> no, i'm saying it's not usb3 either
2012-01-19T01:49:19 < zyp> I pledged for one
2012-01-19T01:49:24 < zyp> still waiting for it
2012-01-19T01:49:31 < dekar_> izua, yeah USB3 would be neat
2012-01-19T01:49:37 <+Steffanx> oh it's still alive
2012-01-19T01:49:41 <+Steffanx> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bushing/openvizsla-open-source-usb-protocol-analyzer/posts
2012-01-19T01:49:45 < zippe> Ask LeCroy what a Voyager M3i lists for
2012-01-19T01:49:55 < zyp> Steffanx, yep, got a mail a few weeks ago
2012-01-19T01:50:23 < dekar_> not paying 7k for a usb3 analyzer
2012-01-19T01:50:46 < dekar_> my 10G matched SMA cables will probably cost that much -.-
2012-01-19T01:51:16 < dekar_> I hate how the cables are more expensive than my frickin FPGA
2012-01-19T01:51:34 < zippe> Seriously, you complain a whole lot for a greenhorn
2012-01-19T01:51:41 < zippe> Try actually building something and selling it
2012-01-19T01:51:51 <+izua> lol
2012-01-19T01:52:01 < zippe> A couple years of people like you bitching about how expensive shit is will shut you up, I wager.
2012-01-19T01:52:36 <+izua> zippe: he has access to the sort of funding some of us would only dream of >.>
2012-01-19T01:52:52 < zippe> I have access to the sort of funding that would make your nose bleed
2012-01-19T01:53:11 < zyp> I have some pocketmoney
2012-01-19T01:53:11 < zippe> Or more specifically, the projects I work on sometimes do
2012-01-19T01:53:23 < zippe> I still think that he's bitching too much
2012-01-19T01:53:33 < zippe> Or wait, I think I missed your point. 8)
2012-01-19T01:53:47 < zippe> Yes, ok, I really shouldn't be trying to do three things at once.
2012-01-19T01:53:50 < dekar_> zippe, I am :)
2012-01-19T01:54:18 < dekar_> I am still really annoyed by the stm32 usb3 problem
2012-01-19T01:54:25 < zippe> You have probably just screwed something up
2012-01-19T01:54:47 < dekar_> zippe, so why does izua have the same problem?
2012-01-19T01:54:58 < dekar_> using a different lib?
2012-01-19T01:55:18 < zippe> Made the same mistake, I'd guess.
2012-01-19T01:55:23 <+Steffanx> You complain too much about complainers zippe
2012-01-19T01:55:34 < zippe> Steffanx: That's very meta.  But probably true.
2012-01-19T01:55:37 < dekar_> zippe, that doesn't sound plausible
2012-01-19T01:55:59 < zippe> dekar_: Got a better hypothesis that explains all of us that have USB work just fine?
2012-01-19T01:56:24 <+izua> dekar_, Steffanx
2012-01-19T01:56:26 < dekar_> zippe, have you tried an stm32 connected to an USB3 port?
2012-01-19T01:56:28 <+izua> got the devil in my house today
2012-01-19T01:56:29 <+Steffanx> izua
2012-01-19T01:56:37 <+izua> got a 3gs for fixin
2012-01-19T01:56:38 <+Steffanx> Bill Gates?
2012-01-19T01:56:40 <+izua> and i'm already raging
2012-01-19T01:56:58 <+Steffanx> You know I own a mac izua ?
2012-01-19T01:57:02 < dekar_> zippe, I wasn't sure about the problem, but since izua also had it I feel like it wasn't just random
2012-01-19T01:57:16 <+izua> battery is soldered to whatever, i need to remove two screws to open it, and change card/sim
2012-01-19T01:57:22 <+izua> no, the phone.
2012-01-19T01:57:41 <+izua> Steffanx: and yes, i know
2012-01-19T01:57:49 <+Steffanx> ok ok :P
2012-01-19T01:58:05 <+Steffanx> That doesn't change the fact I wouldn't never buy an iphone though :P
2012-01-19T01:58:13 <+izua> oh, i didn't buy it
2012-01-19T01:58:27 <+izua> i got it for fixing, power went out while osmeone awas messing with it and now it's bricked
2012-01-19T01:58:33 <+izua> and since i'm the tech guy..
2012-01-19T01:59:08 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-19T01:59:09 <+izua> back panel is cracked, and there's a huge layer of oxide on the connector
2012-01-19T01:59:20 < dekar_> zippe, so? does it work for your USB3 ports?
2012-01-19T01:59:29 <+izua> like, you know how it forms on lead-acid accus, when huge currents are around? green-bluish deposits?
2012-01-19T01:59:41 <+izua> there's one of those on theconnector!
2012-01-19T02:01:47 < zippe> izua: No complaints from users re: usb3 ports
2012-01-19T02:01:58 < zippe> s/izua/dekar_/g
2012-01-19T02:02:24 <+izua> the vim is strong in this one
2012-01-19T02:02:26 < zippe> mistake	may be trying to use usb3 ports
2012-01-19T02:02:42 <+izua> they should be backwards compatible.. in theory at least.
2012-01-19T02:02:46 < dekar_> zippe, soon there won't be any usb2 ports left
2012-01-19T02:03:23 <+Steffanx> soon :)
2012-01-19T02:03:33 <+Steffanx> Just like the standard rs232 port dekar_ :P
2012-01-19T02:03:36 < dekar_> yeah w/e, I'll try it later at work today
2012-01-19T02:03:57 < dekar_> if I don't get it sorted I'll stall the production I guess
2012-01-19T02:04:14 <+Steffanx> Sue ST if that happens
2012-01-19T02:04:15 < dekar_> gotta get some sleep now, night ;)
2012-01-19T02:05:23 <+izua> i'd post a soonflanders.jpg meme
2012-01-19T02:05:25 <+izua> but i cba
2012-01-19T02:07:08 <+Steffanx> You can
2012-01-19T02:07:35 <+izua> Steffanx:
2012-01-19T02:08:05 <+Steffanx> ..
2012-01-19T02:08:07 <+izua> i talked with a software guy/teacher today who's also into legislation
2012-01-19T02:08:20 <+izua> about how easily can gpl-like be exploited
2012-01-19T02:08:41 <+izua> his argument was something like "obfuscate the original library, compile it as your own"
2012-01-19T02:08:57 <+Steffanx> obfuscate as in ..
2012-01-19T02:08:59 <+izua> since apparently, when such a confrontation occurs, each party is supposed to bring the source code
2012-01-19T02:09:10 <+izua> well, not really obfuscate, but more like "mix"
2012-01-19T02:09:31 <+izua> change variable names, function call order, distribution of processing among functions, etc
2012-01-19T02:09:34 <+Steffanx> Hmm, maybe that works… but it doesn't feel right :P
2012-01-19T02:09:51 <+izua> use a lib as a base, and then mess it up a bit, but still in a working fashion.
2012-01-19T02:10:24 <+izua> apparently this is how (some) patents were also solved
2012-01-19T02:10:37 <+izua> and the defending party involved a "best solution" sort of argument.
2012-01-19T02:10:52 <+Steffanx> I prefer to write my own code with ideas from other code
2012-01-19T02:11:00 <+izua> if you're a good programmer, and i'm a good programmer, we'll eventually reach the same solution, given the same resources (internet + books)
2012-01-19T02:11:09 <+izua> m, yes, i know the feeling
2012-01-19T02:11:11 <+Steffanx> "How they did this?" .. "Oh yeah, that's a great idea"
2012-01-19T02:11:20 <+izua> that's why i always prefer having my libs grounds up :D
2012-01-19T02:11:35 <+izua> last thing i learned recently, from peter fleury's avr libs
2012-01-19T02:11:54 <+izua> he did something like PORTx = &PORTC;
2012-01-19T02:12:07 <+izua> and DIRx was PORTx + 2 (or whatever the offset was)
2012-01-19T02:12:22 <+izua> pretty epic, so the library user won't have to set up both port and DDR :D
2012-01-19T02:13:37 < zyp> I prefer having clean code rather than obfuscated code
2012-01-19T02:14:02 <+izua> does it really matter when using a library?
2012-01-19T02:14:24 <+Steffanx> Anyway => ZZZZZzzzzzZZzzz
2012-01-19T02:14:33 <+izua> (unless you are improving the lib, but that hardly qualifies as using it anymore, heh)
2012-01-19T02:14:40 < zyp> well, I prefer having a clean API when using a library
2012-01-19T02:14:41 <+izua> good night, Steffanx
2012-01-19T02:15:07 <+izua> zyp: the issue i was refering to is using a good lib (like opemc3) commercially, for a profit
2012-01-19T02:15:21 <+izua> such a lib makes you reveal your code to your client, which can seriously hinder your profits.
2012-01-19T02:15:28 < zyp> sorry, I didn't read the entire conversation
2012-01-19T02:15:40 <+izua> ah, it's a longer debate me and Steffanx had
2012-01-19T02:15:47 < zyp> but yeah
2012-01-19T02:16:00 < zyp> I think I mentioned it earlier, but that's why I don't like GPL
2012-01-19T02:16:15 <+Steffanx> Hmm, who does like GPL?
2012-01-19T02:16:29 <+Steffanx> I still have to find someone who does like gpl
2012-01-19T02:16:38 < zyp> 23:48:22 < zyp> I like the thought behind GPL, but I don't like how GPL is causing incompatibilities between different pieces of software
2012-01-19T02:16:47 <+Steffanx> So you don't like it
2012-01-19T02:17:11 <+izua> i perfectly agree with sending back your upgrades to a gpl lib back to the community
2012-01-19T02:17:15 < zyp> GPL kind of expects everyone else to use it
2012-01-19T02:17:20 <+Steffanx> Sorry, I shouldn't sleepwalk
2012-01-19T02:17:24 < zyp> if everyone were using it, it would be fine
2012-01-19T02:17:25 <+izua> but sending code that makes you of it is.. meh
2012-01-19T02:17:44 <+izua> but there's a fine line between the two
2012-01-19T02:17:51 < zyp> that's what LGPL is for
2012-01-19T02:18:37 <+izua> yes, but you can't take GPL projects, offer them under LGPL, and expect the original authors not to complain
2012-01-19T02:18:54 <+izua> usually you need to rewrite 'em, at least partially, so there is some (time) investment on your side, too.
2012-01-19T02:18:57 < zyp> true
2012-01-19T02:19:18 < dekar_> izua, now I feel like writing something instead of sleeping again: I once tried to talk to people at #fsf and instead of answering my legal questions they told me my integrity was on the line and that the term "open source" was offensive
2012-01-19T02:19:30 < zyp> well, rewriting it would still make it a derivative work
2012-01-19T02:19:32 <+izua> oh?
2012-01-19T02:19:45 < dekar_> those guys are seriously fucked up -> I hate GPL :)
2012-01-19T02:19:46 <+izua> zyp: as in grounds up, from scratch
2012-01-19T02:20:00 <+izua> but maintaining code compatibility i guess - write a header file that uses the same calls?
2012-01-19T02:20:20 < BrainDamage> in the eye of a bigout, even the moderate looks like an extremist :/
2012-01-19T02:21:00 < dekar_> they also started an insane rant against me for stating the GPL was "viral"
2012-01-19T02:21:13 < dekar_> they lectured me how bad the word "viral" was
2012-01-19T02:21:15 <+izua> it is "viral" in a way
2012-01-19T02:21:25 < zyp> you can't have nice discussions with religious people :p
2012-01-19T02:21:29 <+izua> everyone who makes changes must also use GPL
2012-01-19T02:21:34 <+izua> hehe
2012-01-19T02:21:36 < dekar_> I was like "hey everyone likes the term viral these days, even marketing people say things go viral!"
2012-01-19T02:21:46 < BrainDamage> not must be gpl, but gpl compatible
2012-01-19T02:21:47 <+izua> zealots are bad, regardless of their side
2012-01-19T02:21:52 <+izua> zealots are bad, mkay?
2012-01-19T02:21:57 < dekar_> mkay
2012-01-19T02:22:01 <+izua> mkaaaay
2012-01-19T02:22:13 < BrainDamage> sheeps are bad, mkaaay?
2012-01-19T02:22:23 < dekar_> but they taste good!
2012-01-19T02:22:25 <+izua> BrainDamage: well it esentially means disclosing full source code
2012-01-19T02:22:29 <+izua> cows taste better
2012-01-19T02:22:33 < dekar_> agree
2012-01-19T02:22:57 < dekar_> hey who cares about disclosing, I want freedom -> public domain is my license
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2012-01-19T02:23:07 < dekar_> freedom not to disclose
2012-01-19T02:23:08 <+izua> dekar_: you do
2012-01-19T02:23:17 <+izua> like not using cm3 on flexbox? :D
2012-01-19T02:23:27 < dekar_> it's my freedom not to use cm3
2012-01-19T02:23:32 < dekar_> :D
2012-01-19T02:23:35 <+izua> opemcm3.. you get it
2012-01-19T02:23:44 <+izua> <- lazy
2012-01-19T02:23:50 < dekar_> I got that
2012-01-19T02:23:55 < zyp> I remember people at work had to replace a GPL library in some code to be able to distribute it
2012-01-19T02:23:56 < dekar_> cm3 is GPL not public domain
2012-01-19T02:24:04 <+izua> yesh:(
2012-01-19T02:24:28 < dekar_> public domain is like "no license, do what you like - this code has no owner!"
2012-01-19T02:24:33 <+izua> i wonder how bad will uwe be pissed if i'd write a header-compatible library
2012-01-19T02:24:51 <+izua> i had somestubs somewhere for usart and gpio :D
2012-01-19T02:24:54 < zyp> it was originally only an internal tool for debugging, but then some customers would like access to it
2012-01-19T02:25:00 < dekar_> he'll be like "the header is derived work, sue him!"
2012-01-19T02:25:05 < zyp> and the rest of the code was pretty proprietary
2012-01-19T02:25:10 <+izua> it's not derived work
2012-01-19T02:25:25 <+izua> i used your library, and i'm writing my own, that maintains compatibility with yours :P
2012-01-19T02:25:45 <+izua> no one could be able to prove the other one wrong, heh
2012-01-19T02:25:47 < dekar_> izua, the header is work, the header compatibility is derived
2012-01-19T02:25:54 < dekar_> ianal
2012-01-19T02:26:09 < dekar_> but I wouldn't be too sure it wasn't derived
2012-01-19T02:26:15 <+izua> well
2012-01-19T02:26:21 <+izua> i wouldn't actually use _their_ header
2012-01-19T02:26:33 <+izua> just also include aliases that use their calls for my functions
2012-01-19T02:26:39 < dekar_> still
2012-01-19T02:26:51 <+izua> so i'd be simply "implementing" their protocol on top of my shit
2012-01-19T02:26:55 < dekar_> that's some work that wouldn't exist without reading their code
2012-01-19T02:27:24 <+izua> but, by that logic, that means i can't be able to make any cm3-like peripheral library after reading the GPLed one :o
2012-01-19T02:27:34 < dekar_> sucks
2012-01-19T02:27:46 <+izua> that's actually worse than proprietary lock-ins
2012-01-19T02:27:53 < dekar_> I really don't know, I gave up trying to understand GPL after chatting at #fsf
2012-01-19T02:28:20 < dekar_> but I could see someone arguing it was derived
2012-01-19T02:28:29 < dekar_> and I could understand his argument
2012-01-19T02:28:56 <+izua> hmm
2012-01-19T02:29:01 < dekar_> just multi license it
2012-01-19T02:29:12 < dekar_> make it GPL, BSD and public domain
2012-01-19T02:29:15 <+izua> what if one would make a similar lib to it, without hoping for call compatibility
2012-01-19T02:29:25 < dekar_> so if someone complains you can be like "hey it's gpl!"
2012-01-19T02:29:26 < dekar_> XD
2012-01-19T02:29:46 <+izua> and then publish a patch (ie, bunch of macros) to make it call-compatible with something else
2012-01-19T02:29:52 < dekar_> idk, derived work can be a lot, could be being inspired by something
2012-01-19T02:30:00 <+izua> i think that's been done before with the illegal numbers?
2012-01-19T02:30:04 < dekar_> patch is derived work as well
2012-01-19T02:30:06 <+izua> and the dvd decoder thingie
2012-01-19T02:30:15 <+izua> yes, but the patch is not part of the code
2012-01-19T02:30:22 < dekar_> patch would be derived work with your lib and the cm3 lib
2012-01-19T02:30:28 <+izua> it's something you might find on the interwebs
2012-01-19T02:30:37 < dekar_> would be uber annoying
2012-01-19T02:30:42 <+izua> which i might have linked to my lib's site, because hey.. it's related to my lib!
2012-01-19T02:30:44 < dekar_> nah, I pass
2012-01-19T02:30:55 <+izua> this legislative thing is a fuckup
2012-01-19T02:31:00 < dekar_> I'll play with my fpga next
2012-01-19T02:31:11 < dekar_> will just finish the last bits of the fw
2012-01-19T02:31:18 < dekar_> have a look at usb3
2012-01-19T02:31:19 <+izua> heheh
2012-01-19T02:31:29 < dekar_> and never look at stm32 ever again
2012-01-19T02:31:30 < dekar_> :P
2012-01-19T02:31:32 <+izua> i have mac stickers
2012-01-19T02:31:37 <+izua> apple
2012-01-19T02:31:38 <+izua> etc
2012-01-19T02:31:42 <+izua> and i'm going to put 'em on my oldserver
2012-01-19T02:31:45 <+izua> 's case
2012-01-19T02:31:51 <+izua> 36X creative CDROM
2012-01-19T02:31:53 < dekar_> I have a mac anti-dust rag thing to clean my MacBooks screen
2012-01-19T02:32:03 <+izua> mendocino 300MHz, slotA cpu
2012-01-19T02:32:06 <+izua> 32 MB ram
2012-01-19T02:32:06 <+izua> etc
2012-01-19T02:32:19 < dekar_> that's funny when I write macbook it auto corrects it to MacBook
2012-01-19T02:32:25 <+izua> lol
2012-01-19T02:32:42 <+izua> i be4t if you write "i hate steve jobs" it will also %s to wank
2012-01-19T02:32:45 < dekar_> I also got a mac mini
2012-01-19T02:32:45 < BrainDamage> does it autocomplete your credit card number too for easy paymeants? :p
2012-01-19T02:32:51 <+izua> rofl
2012-01-19T02:33:00 <+izua> BrainDamage: only on the apple store!
2012-01-19T02:33:10 < dekar_> I always use the company credit card :)
2012-01-19T02:33:52 < dekar_> izua, I told our admin guy I wanted some PC to compile my stuff on all OS's
2012-01-19T02:34:06 < dekar_> he told me he'd have to buy a mac cause mac VMs are only allowed on OSX
2012-01-19T02:34:11 < dekar_> I was like idc, as you like
2012-01-19T02:34:17 < dekar_> so he got the mac mini
2012-01-19T02:34:31 <+izua> mac vm's can't run on windows?
2012-01-19T02:34:36 < dekar_> then he realized he could only legally install OSX server into the VM
2012-01-19T02:34:37 <+izua> or !osx?
2012-01-19T02:34:50 < dekar_> but OSX server is 500?
2012-01-19T02:34:51 <+izua> if you run it on a mac
2012-01-19T02:35:00 <+izua> yeah, i recall something like that
2012-01-19T02:35:04 < dekar_> so he downloaded some cracked vmware fusion and installed that
2012-01-19T02:35:06 < dekar_> XD
2012-01-19T02:35:08 <+izua> eula forces you to use their hardware
2012-01-19T02:35:13 <+izua> or something among those lines
2012-01-19T02:35:15 < dekar_> it even had a keygen (we have a license though)
2012-01-19T02:35:20 <+izua> lol
2012-01-19T02:35:25 < dekar_> I laughed so hard XD
2012-01-19T02:35:26 <+izua> "it worked"
2012-01-19T02:35:29 <+izua> "it's not supposed to work"
2012-01-19T02:35:35 <+izua> "but it did"
2012-01-19T02:35:38 <+izua> "oh, you pirated it?"
2012-01-19T02:35:42 <+izua> "no, we have a license"
2012-01-19T02:35:50 <+izua> "no, as in downloaded it from a pirate site?"
2012-01-19T02:36:02 <+izua> "yeah, who ever uses installation cds anyway ? o_O"
2012-01-19T02:36:02 < dekar_> at that point I was like "so why did we buy a mac mini to begin with?"
2012-01-19T02:36:07 <+izua> hehehe
2012-01-19T02:36:43 < dekar_> the vmware version wasn't even altered to run OSX, it just was that one special version that didn't check whether it was OSX server or normal OSX
2012-01-19T02:36:51 < dekar_> so it actually worked using our normal license
2012-01-19T02:36:57 <+izua> but
2012-01-19T02:36:58 < dekar_> we just can't update to the latest version
2012-01-19T02:37:13 <+izua> can you run osx on !mac computers?
2012-01-19T02:37:17 <+izua> in a vm that is
2012-01-19T02:37:19 < dekar_> but yeah, probably not more legal than installing hackintosh on any pc
2012-01-19T02:37:30 < dekar_> which supposedly is legal in Germany
2012-01-19T02:37:36 <+izua> oh lol
2012-01-19T02:37:41 <+izua> you and your silly circumvention laws
2012-01-19T02:38:10 < dekar_> hey it's their fault their EULA isn't legal in Germany, they'd have to print it _outside_ the box
2012-01-19T02:38:13 < BrainDamage> I really love that in germany you cannot forfeit your copyrights
2012-01-19T02:38:20 < dekar_> now you can only read it _after_ install
2012-01-19T02:38:22 < dekar_> thus it's void
2012-01-19T02:38:28 < dekar_> well _after_ unboxing
2012-01-19T02:38:34 < dekar_> thus _after_ buying
2012-01-19T02:38:45 < BrainDamage> here in italy, for instance, univs take all your work rights
2012-01-19T02:38:45 < dekar_> BrainDamage, it's weird imo
2012-01-19T02:38:59 < BrainDamage> you cannot even have your name on it
2012-01-19T02:39:02 <+izua> BrainDamage: and work/jobs too
2012-01-19T02:39:06 < dekar_> BrainDamage, but if you _want_ to sell all rights?
2012-01-19T02:39:15 <+izua> what if you're coelho?
2012-01-19T02:39:21 <+izua> and you want to pirate your own stuff? o_O
2012-01-19T02:39:30 < dekar_> In germany you have to give them an exclusive license, thus you still have the copyright, but can't use it anymore
2012-01-19T02:39:33 <+izua> will the universe implode and buttercat stop spinning? :o
2012-01-19T02:39:50 < BrainDamage> buttercat spun in the first place?
2012-01-19T02:40:21 <+izua> you never wondered what's inside the earth's core that makes it spin, now have you?
2012-01-19T02:40:39 < BrainDamage> dinamo theory
2012-01-19T02:41:13 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamo_theory?banner=false
2012-01-19T02:41:25 < BrainDamage> yes, I am a party pooper, and I love it
2012-01-19T02:42:27 < dekar_> okay I'll go to bed now
2012-01-19T02:42:30 < dekar_> gpl sucks
2012-01-19T02:42:34 < dekar_> bye :)
2012-01-19T02:42:38 < BrainDamage> good night
2012-01-19T02:43:00 <+izua> gn
2012-01-19T02:54:36 < zippe> izua: orbital dynamics more or less ensures that it had to be spinning at the time it coalesced; why would it stop?
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2012-01-19T03:15:55 <+izua> good night.
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2012-01-19T11:16:24 <+dekar_> zippe, my problem was related to libusb, somehow it doesn't work for hid devices connected to usb3 ports
2012-01-19T11:16:59 <+dekar_> switched to hidapi and everything now works
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2012-01-19T11:57:18 < karlp> dekar_: that's odd.  it worked on usb2 ports?
2012-01-19T11:57:43 < karlp> never mind, reading the backlog now.
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2012-01-19T12:48:44 < karlp> you guys were chatty last night weren't you!
2012-01-19T12:49:10 <+Steffanx> Yeah, we knew you weren't there
2012-01-19T12:51:06  * karlp spanks Steffanx 
2012-01-19T12:51:14 <+Steffanx> Yikes
2012-01-19T12:52:12 < zyp> deserved
2012-01-19T12:54:14 <+Steffanx> So busy i probably didn't even see the quit/joins from Tekno.Juce, karlp :P
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2012-01-19T15:01:13 < izua__> http://memebase.com/2012/01/18/internet-memes-the-world-is-a-sad-but-ironic-place/
2012-01-19T15:20:45 <+Steffanx> Yeah, I read about it
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2012-01-19T16:45:23 < Thorn> I see pin 11 pulled both up and down via 10K on the jtag connector in different development boards (some schematics don't install one of the resistors, some do so it must be at 3.3V/2 then). what's the deal?
2012-01-19T16:48:14 < jpa-> maybe it is line termination?
2012-01-19T16:48:38 < jpa-> though 10k is a bit high for that
2012-01-19T16:49:25 < Thorn> that pin doesn't go to the mcu
2012-01-19T16:51:40 < zyp> 11? that would be the rtck pin?
2012-01-19T16:54:41 < Thorn> what's rtck?
2012-01-19T16:55:48 < Thorn> something that's not used on cortex-m I suppose
2012-01-19T16:56:05 < zyp> it's used for adaptive clocking on chips that support it
2012-01-19T16:56:11 < karlp> it's for jtag changing the speed
2012-01-19T16:56:14 < karlp> yeah, something like that.
2012-01-19T16:56:26 < karlp> it's a feature some of the jtag dongles advertise, "full rtck support"
2012-01-19T16:56:34 < karlp> return trace clock or something?
2012-01-19T16:56:51 < Thorn> so they expect some specific level on it?
2012-01-19T16:56:58 < zyp> http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/html/FAQ.html <- it's explained nicely here
2012-01-19T16:57:06 < zyp> no, just leave it out
2012-01-19T16:57:15 < zyp> I've always done that
2012-01-19T17:00:13 < Thorn> got it, thanks
2012-01-19T17:00:22 < zyp> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.faqs/ka3892.html <- ARM says it should be pulled down if not used
2012-01-19T17:00:25 <+Steffanx> Hows the broken board going?
2012-01-19T17:00:48 <+Steffanx> Thorn
2012-01-19T17:00:58 < zyp> but from experience it doesn't really matter in practice
2012-01-19T17:05:19 < Thorn> Steffanx: works beautifully
2012-01-19T17:05:48 < Thorn> I fixed it right after breaking
2012-01-19T17:08:10 < Thorn> can't fully use it yet due to the lack of a 93c46
2012-01-19T17:09:21 <+Steffanx> That ft2232 needs external eeprom?
2012-01-19T17:09:31 < Thorn> it does
2012-01-19T17:09:39 < Thorn> for some reason
2012-01-19T17:10:30 < Thorn> it has onboard 1.8V LDO and stuff but not eeprom
2012-01-19T17:10:45 <+Steffanx> Weird stuff
2012-01-19T17:13:08 < Thorn> since this was taken http://i.imgur.com/PQtDH.jpg I installed everything except the eeprom
2012-01-19T17:35:01 < jpa-> maybe because for mass manufacturing, preprogrammed eeproms are commonly available but internal eeprom would have to be programmed separately
2012-01-19T17:36:30 <+Steffanx> maybe
2012-01-19T17:36:37 < Thorn> ft232r and others do have internal eeprom (maybe they're aimed at different markets?)
2012-01-19T17:57:28 <+dekar_> Steffanx, weird - the ft2232c has an internal EEPROM
2012-01-19T17:57:39 <+dekar_> I have used it before
2012-01-19T17:59:55 <+Steffanx> Sure.. the datasheet only talks about external eeprom
2012-01-19T18:01:59 <+dekar_> they have this tool called M-Prog iirc to write it
2012-01-19T18:02:21 <+Steffanx> The external eeprom … the ft232rl has internal eeprom
2012-01-19T18:02:26 <+dekar_> I guess it could be that our hardware has an eeprom on the pcb
2012-01-19T18:03:48 < Thorn> I tried ftprog on my board, it says BLANK in red and refuses to do anything
2012-01-19T18:05:33 <+dekar_> hm okay, I guess our hardware has an EEPROM then, never knew ;)
2012-01-19T18:07:55 <+dekar_> that's actually quite cool, they released a linux/arm version (they call it android version) of their d2xx driver
2012-01-19T18:08:15 < Thorn> very nice
2012-01-19T18:08:40 <+dekar_> about half a year ago I asked them about arm and they basically told me to GTFO
2012-01-19T18:14:19 < Thorn> how do I use the internal ADC in stm32 if I need two different Vrefs?
2012-01-19T18:15:04 < jpa-> switch the vref and wait a moment?
2012-01-19T18:15:10 < Thorn> switch references with mosfets or something?
2012-01-19T18:15:51 < jpa-> ah, two external vrefs?
2012-01-19T18:16:05 < jpa-> why do you need that?
2012-01-19T18:16:27 < Thorn> well one is Vcc and the other is an external reference
2012-01-19T18:17:20 < Thorn> I want to measure supply current & voltage. the current circuit is an inverting amp so I need to measure Vcc-Vout
2012-01-19T18:17:38 < Thorn> relative to Vcc obviously
2012-01-19T18:18:03 < Thorn> for the voltage I'm going to use an external reference
2012-01-19T18:18:27 < Thorn> (I wanted 2.048V but stm32 vants 2.4V min so it's probably going to be 2.5V)
2012-01-19T18:18:41 < Thorn> how stupid is all this?
2012-01-19T18:19:31 < Thorn> (supply voltage is not Vcc=3.3V but a larger one before the LDO, reduced with a divider)
2012-01-19T18:19:48 < jpa-> why relative to vcc?
2012-01-19T18:20:33 < jpa-> why not just use external reference for both?
2012-01-19T18:20:52 < Thorn> I'll post a screenshot
2012-01-19T18:24:09 < Thorn> http://i.imgur.com/eilPQ.jpg
2012-01-19T18:25:45 < jpa-> you know that you can buy 0.1ohm resistors directly, right? :P
2012-01-19T18:26:11 < Thorn> huge ones
2012-01-19T18:26:20 < jpa-> small ones, too
2012-01-19T18:26:38 < jpa-> but isn't that opamp going to output a negative voltage?
2012-01-19T18:26:47 < Thorn> these are 0805, they'll be good up to 3,5A according to my calculations
2012-01-19T18:27:06 < zyp> are you stacking them?
2012-01-19T18:27:31 < Thorn> see the typical application at the top, there's a formula
2012-01-19T18:28:02 < zyp> because 10 0805 will take more area than a larger resistor
2012-01-19T18:28:41 < Thorn> I'll put 5 on each side of the board :p
2012-01-19T18:28:41 < jpa-> Thorn: but the typical application has the - and + other way around
2012-01-19T18:29:16 < zyp> no, it doesn't
2012-01-19T18:29:18 < zyp> it's the same
2012-01-19T18:29:23 < Thorn> does it? the battery is at the bottom so the bottom if the 10R is more positive
2012-01-19T18:29:31 < Thorn> *of the 10R
2012-01-19T18:29:46 < jpa-> ah true
2012-01-19T18:30:05 < jpa-> confused it with a battery charger :P
2012-01-19T18:30:12 < Thorn> I'm pretty confused since it a[[ears that with Idd=0 the amp should output Vout=Vdd (?)
2012-01-19T18:31:43 < Thorn> so that the equation is zero
2012-01-19T18:31:46 < jpa-> ah yeah, it uses the battery+ as a virtual earth
2012-01-19T18:32:12 < jpa-> tricky circuit but yeah, that's how it goes :P
2012-01-19T18:32:20 < Thorn> this amp can go slightly beyond power rails btw
2012-01-19T18:32:38 < Thorn> (0.3V each direction)
2012-01-19T18:32:45 < jpa-> not that it helps you much, because you still need to measure voltages > 3 volts, so you need a voltage divider after it
2012-01-19T18:33:31 < Thorn> that's what I realized just now but I can't really move that circuit to 3.3V because I'll have some 5V consumers
2012-01-19T18:34:15 < jpa-> i would just use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier_applications#Differential_amplifier
2012-01-19T18:34:55 < Thorn> you mean as another stage to subtract Vout from Vdd?
2012-01-19T18:35:15 < Thorn> or as a replacement for my circuit?
2012-01-19T18:35:37 < jpa-> replacement
2012-01-19T18:38:37 < Thorn> I wonder why microchip recommends that other circuit
2012-01-19T18:38:59 < jpa-> well it is a quite nice circuit if you have the same supply for the whole circuit
2012-01-19T18:39:09 < jpa-> less resistors
2012-01-19T18:40:16 < Thorn> but common mode voltage is the same in both cases?
2012-01-19T18:43:42 < jpa-> well, kind-of-not-quite
2012-01-19T18:44:08 < jpa-> because in the microchip case you are measuring Vdd-Vout, some of the common mode is eliminated
2012-01-19T18:45:15 < Thorn> I'm trying to find reasons why the microchip circuit might be more presice
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2012-01-19T18:46:37 < jpa-> well, 2 accurate resistors is cheaper than 4 accurate resistors
2012-01-19T18:48:44 < Thorn> btw, the 10 resistor thing is from here http://www.eevblog.com/2012/01/06/eevblog-232-lab-power-supply-design-part-5/
2012-01-19T18:48:56 < Thorn> (sorry for an inappropriate link :D)
2012-01-19T18:50:07 < Thorn> but he's using a "real" current sense amp
2012-01-19T18:55:05 < Thorn> okay, thanks much. back to the drawing board (and I guess I'll need to wait for the op amps to arrive and breadboard it all first)
2012-01-19T19:00:40 < Thorn> (all the 0.1R resistors I can find locally are huge multiwatt ones...)
2012-01-19T19:04:07 < jpa-> disassemble an old laptop .P
2012-01-19T19:08:48 <+Steffanx> "Thorn> (sorry for an inappropriate link :D)" and inappropriate it is...
2012-01-19T19:09:27 <+Steffanx> I need a voice changer for videos he made
2012-01-19T19:09:52 < karlp> you big baby :)
2012-01-19T19:10:08 < Laurenceb> why is the link inappropriate?
2012-01-19T19:10:29 <+Steffanx> That guy annoys me Laurenceb
2012-01-19T19:10:42 < Laurenceb> is he involved in eestor?
2012-01-19T19:11:01 <+Steffanx> Don't defend him karlp
2012-01-19T19:15:35 < BrainDamage> I don't like the content of his many videos
2012-01-19T19:15:50 < BrainDamage> regarldess of his voice
2012-01-19T19:15:59 < BrainDamage> wastes a lot of time to get to the point
2012-01-19T19:16:03 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that too
2012-01-19T19:21:23 < Thorn> at least he doesn't talk trivial arduino stuff like most others
2012-01-19T19:23:20 < karlp> sure, he can talk a bit too much at times, but there's some good stuff there.
2012-01-19T19:24:38 < Thorn> this power supply series is especially good. I wish he didn't have so much fascination with tearing down lab instruments :)
2012-01-19T19:47:58 < karlp> schweet, uwe has gone and done some of the other fixes in stlink I hadn't gotten to.
2012-01-19T19:48:07 < karlp> half page writing for the L1, instead of half word writing.
2012-01-19T19:48:11 < karlp> that should be a touch faster
2012-01-19T19:49:13 < eroomde> karlp: thanks for your stlink mod
2012-01-19T19:50:30 < eroomde> i've spent the day getting the toolchain compiled, stlink compiled, and writing my own blinky program from scratch with the stm32F4 datasheet using a timer and interrupt
2012-01-19T19:50:37 < karlp> whee
2012-01-19T19:50:49 < eroomde> A sense of achievment. It's all downhill from here
2012-01-19T19:51:07 < karlp> which stlink are you using? the current top of texane?
2012-01-19T19:51:15 < eroomde> but coming from AVRs and how easy it is to configure peripherals, I can tell I'm not in kansas anymore
2012-01-19T19:51:25 < karlp> doh! I'm not meant to be here anymore! home time!
2012-01-19T19:51:25 < eroomde> your own one
2012-01-19T19:51:38 < eroomde> githum.com/karlp/stlink
2012-01-19T19:51:42 < eroomde> hub*
2012-01-19T19:52:35 < karlp> alright.
2012-01-19T19:52:52 < karlp> I'll try and test out the new stuff in texane master and see how it goes.
2012-01-19T19:53:00 < karlp> my master is working on the F4 for you?
2012-01-19T19:53:15 <+Steffanx> How you do that karlp ?
2012-01-19T19:53:20 <+Steffanx> Just merge and test?
2012-01-19T19:53:21 < karlp> I have to press reset manually a lot, doesn't seem nearly as reliable as with the F1 or the L1
2012-01-19T19:53:31 < karlp> I have the other repos as a git remote
2012-01-19T19:53:38 < eroomde> ah yes
2012-01-19T19:53:41 < eroomde> i have noticed that too
2012-01-19T19:53:45 < karlp> then you can just do git checkout th-github/master, then clean and build
2012-01-19T19:53:49 < eroomde> that it doesn't reliable startup after load, continue
2012-01-19T19:53:56 < karlp> and git checkout master to go back to your own.
2012-01-19T19:54:14 < karlp> if I decided I like the remote, I merge/rebase
2012-01-19T19:54:21 < eroomde> ok
2012-01-19T19:54:31 < karlp> anyway, home time.
2012-01-19T19:54:38 < eroomde> ok
2012-01-19T19:54:38 < eroomde> thanks
2012-01-19T21:28:39 < zippe> The reason you end up having to hard-reset the F4 is that it goes into lockup
2012-01-19T21:28:49 < zippe> And AFAICT there's no way to JTAG it out of lockup; you have to reset
2012-01-19T21:29:03 < zippe> even 'run' under GBD doesn't do that, from what I can see
2012-01-19T21:29:20 < zippe> There's a section in the v7M architecture document that talks about getting devices out of lockup
2012-01-19T21:29:41 < zippe> I routinely have to 'load' while holding reset in fact; it's the worst part about using the Discovery board
2012-01-19T21:31:25 < zyp> eroomde, IMO STM32 is not really harder than AVR to work with, the libs are just not as good
2012-01-19T21:32:23 <+Steffanx> It is harder imho
2012-01-19T21:32:29 <+Steffanx> Especially the clock system
2012-01-19T21:33:26 < zyp> because everything is off by default, whereas on AVR everything is on by default?
2012-01-19T21:36:18 < zyp> and what's hard about it? you want to use a peripheral - set a bit in a register to turn it on.
2012-01-19T21:41:50 < izua__> well
2012-01-19T21:41:59 <+Steffanx> Most periperhals have more options, .. which makes it more complex most of the time
2012-01-19T21:42:00 < izua__> it has much more registers than someone used with AVRs would expect
2012-01-19T21:42:11 < izua__> for example, pins are now not simply input/output
2012-01-19T21:42:22 < izua__> and Steffanx also has a good point with the libs
2012-01-19T21:43:10 < zyp> more complex != harder
2012-01-19T21:43:16 <+Steffanx> It is
2012-01-19T21:43:21 < zyp> just ignore the complexity you don't need
2012-01-19T21:43:45 < zyp> actually, I'd argue the added complexity makes it easier to do more complex stuff
2012-01-19T21:43:51 <+Steffanx> I don't say it's hard.. i just say it's a little harder
2012-01-19T21:44:49 <+Steffanx> More things to take care of.. like which clocks are used for what
2012-01-19T21:46:00 < zyp> well, duh, USART1 clock is used for USART1 :p
2012-01-19T21:47:12 <+Steffanx> True, but sometimes you have to use the Alternate function mode of a pin… i screwed that up a few times
2012-01-19T21:47:49 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2012-01-19T21:47:58 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2012-01-19T21:50:33 < BrainDamage> a nice clock tree chart helps
2012-01-19T21:50:33 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-19T21:50:45 <+Steffanx> You have that?
2012-01-19T21:50:54 < zyp> it's in the datasheet
2012-01-19T21:50:56 < zyp> clock chapter
2012-01-19T21:51:03 <+Steffanx> Hmm, why i've never seen that
2012-01-19T21:51:05 < zyp> reference manual*
2012-01-19T21:51:23 <+Steffanx> Anyway, .. it's still a little harder than a simple avr :P
2012-01-19T21:51:28 < Laurenceb_> or "wow the datasheet is short, this looks easy"
2012-01-19T21:51:43 < Laurenceb_> as i thought when i first saw the stm32 datasheet
2012-01-19T21:51:53 < zyp> Laurenceb_, ever read the x86 reference manual? :)
2012-01-19T21:52:05 < Laurenceb_> lol no way im going to try
2012-01-19T21:52:36 < zyp> IIRC the one I have are a couple thousand pages across five volumes
2012-01-19T22:03:56 < jpa-> and that is just the processor, right?
2012-01-19T22:05:37 <+Steffanx> Oh, i knew that clock tree
2012-01-19T22:05:41 <+Steffanx> @ zyp
2012-01-19T22:05:48 <+Steffanx> I had a different tree in my mine
2012-01-19T22:06:31 < zyp> I have a whole forest in mine
2012-01-19T22:06:40 <+Steffanx> funny :P
2012-01-19T22:11:31 < izua__> zyp: intel offered them for free at some point
2012-01-19T22:11:33 < izua__> shipping included
2012-01-19T22:12:08 < zyp> sounds like you won't freeze on cold winter days then :p
2012-01-19T22:12:42 < izua__> oh we have this epic new technology to prevent that here
2012-01-19T22:12:47 < izua__> we call it coal stove
2012-01-19T22:14:11 -!- AK6L [~xunil@paxil.xunil.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
2012-01-19T22:14:40 < BrainDamage> yes, but powered by free paper bricks
2012-01-19T22:17:04 < zyp> yeah, that was the joke :p
2012-01-19T22:18:25 < izua__> ba dum tss
2012-01-19T22:19:16 <+Steffanx> http://instantrimshot.com/ :D
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2012-01-19T22:42:59 < izua__> i wonder how hard would be to implement the functions of an IR decoder chip in software
2012-01-19T22:43:31 < izua__> so you could have an isolated comm interface with just an ir led and a phototransistor
2012-01-19T22:45:00 < zyp> are you thinking only digital parts, or AGC too?
2012-01-19T22:48:20 < izua__> nope, doing all in software
2012-01-19T22:48:28 < izua__> maybe using an opamp at best
2012-01-19T22:49:43 < BrainDamage> the trick when you lack agc, is that you need good adc dynamic
2012-01-19T22:49:59 < BrainDamage> so high resolution
2012-01-19T22:50:15 < izua__> but i'm not thinking long range, or even short range for that matter, the ir led (on each side) will be directly exposed (and external light masked) to the opposite phototransistor
2012-01-19T22:50:36 < izua__> ah, indeed, to get the missing headroom
2012-01-19T22:50:42 < zyp> then you could probably just hook it to a uart
2012-01-19T22:51:27 < izua__> but my guess is that shielding external light and shining the led directly on the photoreceiver will provide a strong enough signal
2012-01-19T22:51:31 < izua__> yeah, that's what i'm planning to do
2012-01-19T22:52:24 < izua__> have an optoisolated uart, minimum cost, to batch test boards (and mess with high power stuff)
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 20 2012
2012-01-20T00:11:09 < karlp> uwe's branch is some nice updates.
2012-01-20T00:11:27 < karlp> 32L and 32Vl both work nicely, and the 32L is much much faster
2012-01-20T00:12:32 <+Steffanx> So the F4 board is too karlp ?
2012-01-20T00:15:59 < karlp> just doing that now, or at least seeing if it's no different.
2012-01-20T00:18:54 < karlp> nah, same weird pause/reset thing with the F4,
2012-01-20T00:18:57 < karlp> no worse.
2012-01-20T00:19:06 <+Steffanx> Yay
2012-01-20T00:20:25 < karlp> oh, texane's already merged it too.
2012-01-20T00:20:45 <+Steffanx> texane merges everything
2012-01-20T00:20:53 < karlp> yeah :)
2012-01-20T00:21:02 < karlp> I was goign to at least comment on the pull request saying it worked :)
2012-01-20T00:23:09 <+Steffanx> ST should port their stlink utility ..
2012-01-20T00:24:04 < karlp> always the grumpy pants aren't you :)
2012-01-20T00:25:32 <+Steffanx> Or at least release the source
2012-01-20T00:27:34 <+Steffanx> No, I just want a fully functional tool, karlp
2012-01-20T00:27:54 < karlp> it's been fully functional fo rme on vl and L for months now
2012-01-20T00:28:05 < karlp> I don't really care an awful lot about the f4 to be honest
2012-01-20T00:28:09 <+Steffanx> "weird pause/reset thing"
2012-01-20T00:28:13 < karlp> only on the f4
2012-01-20T00:28:18 <+Steffanx> Yes, but w hat about the speed?
2012-01-20T00:28:27 <+Steffanx> It's still slowish
2012-01-20T00:28:29 < karlp> the new patches just made it faster on the L,
2012-01-20T00:28:48 <+Steffanx> Just as fast as the stlink utility? :P
2012-01-20T00:28:48 < karlp> oh, now you want features, not just function :)
2012-01-20T00:28:54 < karlp> I don't use the stlink utility.
2012-01-20T00:28:59 <+Steffanx> It's pretty fast
2012-01-20T00:29:04 < karlp> good for it :)
2012-01-20T00:29:07 < karlp> you should use it then.
2012-01-20T00:29:12 <+Steffanx> No, I'm on os x :P
2012-01-20T00:29:26 < karlp> oh? really? I had no idea :)
2012-01-20T00:31:03 <+Steffanx> hmpf
2012-01-20T00:31:28 <+Steffanx> You are soo nice karlp
2012-01-20T00:31:57 < zyp> what utility are karlp talking about?
2012-01-20T00:32:04 < zyp> that's not running on os x
2012-01-20T00:32:16 < karlp> there was a poor choice of naming in the dark ages
2012-01-20T00:32:29 < karlp> texane's stlink bears the same name as the st provided windows tool.
2012-01-20T00:32:39 < karlp> which also bears the same name as the hardware dongles themselves
2012-01-20T00:32:44 <+Steffanx> stlink utility :P
2012-01-20T00:33:28 < zyp> I wish there were an os x version of the jlink gdb server
2012-01-20T00:35:01 <+Steffanx> You have a jlink?
2012-01-20T00:35:30 < zyp> yeah, that's one of the newest toys floating around on my desk now
2012-01-20T00:36:20 <+Steffanx> Sounds like i have it because i just want it :P
2012-01-20T00:36:30 < zyp> I can't keep dragging the discovery board around everytime I want to use swd
2012-01-20T00:37:00 < zyp> and most other jtag dongles don't do swd
2012-01-20T00:37:03 <+Steffanx> A pretty pricy device..
2012-01-20T00:37:08 < zyp> well.
2012-01-20T00:37:54 <+Steffanx> You just have the standard version i guesS?
2012-01-20T00:38:39 < karlp> just saw off the other half of the discovery board :)
2012-01-20T00:38:43 < zyp> more like a clone of the standard version
2012-01-20T00:38:44 <+Steffanx> hehe
2012-01-20T00:38:49 <+Steffanx> oooh
2012-01-20T00:38:56 < karlp> some of the other combined baords were even designed for it,
2012-01-20T00:39:02 < karlp> I'm a little surprised the st ones weren't
2012-01-20T00:39:11 < karlp> they were laid out so they could be cut
2012-01-20T00:39:16 < zyp> yeah
2012-01-20T00:39:18 <+Steffanx> Yeah, like the lpc xpresso's
2012-01-20T00:39:40 <+Steffanx> Oh, clones a pretty cheap zyp
2012-01-20T00:39:52 < zyp> yeah, cheaper than the edu version
2012-01-20T00:40:12 < BrainDamage> must be a really fancy toy if it can even float around your desk
2012-01-20T00:40:15 < zyp> I considered buying the edu version first, then realized I could get two clones for that price
2012-01-20T00:40:25 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-20T00:40:31 < zyp> you should see my desk :p
2012-01-20T00:40:43 < Thorn> you should have bought j-trace
2012-01-20T00:40:50 < Thorn> $2000?
2012-01-20T00:40:55 < zyp> :)
2012-01-20T00:41:03 < Thorn> and clone it
2012-01-20T00:41:07 < zyp> this were more like $22
2012-01-20T00:41:08 < zyp> shipped
2012-01-20T00:41:48 < Thorn> I've got saleae logic and altera usb blaster the same way :p
2012-01-20T00:42:07 < zyp> I've got an original saleae
2012-01-20T00:43:20 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/Ftmrn.JPG <- the stuff under the shelf is what I mean by «float»
2012-01-20T00:43:33 < Thorn> we need an open hardware adapter with trace capability
2012-01-20T00:44:11 < zyp> make one
2012-01-20T00:44:42 <+Steffanx> At least zyp knows how to handle his finger nails :P
2012-01-20T00:44:46 < Thorn> I hope to get to it eventually :)
2012-01-20T00:47:06 <+Steffanx> Where did you get it zyp ?
2012-01-20T00:47:20 <+Steffanx> $22 … i only find %35
2012-01-20T00:47:23 <+Steffanx> $
2012-01-20T00:48:18 < zyp> powermcu.com
2012-01-20T00:48:24 < BrainDamage> I have the same oscope
2012-01-20T00:48:34 < zyp> the same old one?
2012-01-20T00:49:15 < BrainDamage> ah wait
2012-01-20T00:49:17 < BrainDamage> mine 1 GSps
2012-01-20T00:49:19 <+Steffanx> I have the same newer one
2012-01-20T00:49:21 <+Steffanx> 1052E
2012-01-20T00:49:35 < BrainDamage> yes, is the 1052E
2012-01-20T00:49:53 < zyp> I feel like a rigol hipster - I got it before rigol became cool (when people discovered they could get 100MHz on the newer one)
2012-01-20T00:50:34 < BrainDamage> I think I would've got the rigo regardless of cracking
2012-01-20T00:50:49 <+Steffanx> I didn't hack my rigol
2012-01-20T00:51:08 < zyp> I originally ordered a 25MHz version, got a 40MHz since the former were out of stock
2012-01-20T00:51:20 < zyp> have never needed anything more
2012-01-20T00:52:12 < BrainDamage> I'm quite happy with it except for the waveform stability in certain conditions, but pausing suffices
2012-01-20T00:53:32 < BrainDamage> I really could use a function generator tough :/
2012-01-20T00:53:44 < BrainDamage> but that'd drain my electronics budget for an year
2012-01-20T00:53:58 < BrainDamage> much like the oscope did
2012-01-20T00:54:09 <+Steffanx> I have one .. an oldy :P
2012-01-20T00:54:13 <+Steffanx> 5MHz max. :P
2012-01-20T00:54:29 <+Steffanx> but it was free, so :D
2012-01-20T00:55:44 < zyp> I'm mostly doing digital stuff, so I've never felt the lack of one
2012-01-20T01:03:14 <+Steffanx> Only used it for the sonic anemometer i made.. which was only 40khz
2012-01-20T01:04:38 < zyp> I think last time I used a function generator were when we were testing impulse and step response on a signal processing lab in uni
2012-01-20T01:04:49 < zyp> and that's a while ago
2012-01-20T01:05:10 < zyp> two years or so
2012-01-20T01:05:45 <+Steffanx> The good old times
2012-01-20T01:06:21 < zyp> I actually liked that class
2012-01-20T01:06:44 < zyp> one of the few I attended that I actually learned a bit new in
2012-01-20T01:09:15 <+Steffanx> btw you should redirect #stm32 to ##stm32 again izua__ ..
2012-01-20T01:09:24 <+Steffanx> People come and go in that channel all the time
2012-01-20T01:09:29 < izua__> oh
2012-01-20T01:09:35 < izua__> odd
2012-01-20T01:10:01 <+Steffanx> I was the gatekeeper over there, but i gave up
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2012-01-20T01:11:50 <+izua> haha
2012-01-20T01:11:51 <+izua> Registered : Apr 10 15:16:25 2010 (1 year, 40 weeks, 4 days, 07:55:09 ago)
2012-01-20T01:11:56 <+izua> the old channel is like 2 years old
2012-01-20T01:13:25 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-20T01:13:42 <+Steffanx> This one only 39
2012-01-20T01:13:45 <+Steffanx> weeks
2012-01-20T01:13:59 <+izua> yeah uh
2012-01-20T01:14:05 <+izua> apparently freenode dropped the redirect things
2012-01-20T01:14:23 <+izua> and we need to register a group and pretend to be active :P
2012-01-20T01:15:50 <+Steffanx> Good night
2012-01-20T01:15:55 <+izua> good night
2012-01-20T01:16:20  * flyback- wonders how long before the feds start suing users of megaupload and megavideo now that it's been shutdown
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2012-01-20T06:43:34 <+dekar_> flyback-, I don't think they will, why would feds do that? It's not like they had any damage anyway
2012-01-20T06:44:00 <+dekar_> they can't sue you unless the content was owned by feds
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2012-01-20T08:02:18 < Dreamon> I am unable to setup memory protection unit (MPU) in cortex-m3. i am using stm32h107 board. I want to create regions in memory. when i read MPU registers values from memory i am getting zero value for all  Help me .....
2012-01-20T08:11:59 < flyback-> this channel varies in activity Dreamon try #sparkfun and ##electronics and #edev also
2012-01-20T09:20:40 < zippe> Dreamon: Check the value at 0xE000ED90
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2012-01-20T10:52:09 < jpa-> Dreamon: are you sure that the controller has MPU?
2012-01-20T10:52:43 < zippe> It doesn't; we sorted it out on another channel
2012-01-20T11:13:41 < flyback-> the m4 ones do
2012-01-20T11:23:55 < karlp> zippe: it doesn't?  what was I reading then?
2012-01-20T11:24:37 < zyp> some but not all STM32 have MPU
2012-01-20T11:29:26 < karlp> seems to be everything but the value line f1?
2012-01-20T11:29:56 < karlp> covered in pm0056?
2012-01-20T11:30:12 < karlp> oh no,
2012-01-20T11:30:23 < karlp> it then says, but not in all, refer to the part datasheet
2012-01-20T11:30:31 < karlp> I love the level of indirection in the st datasheets
2012-01-20T11:36:31 < jpa-> yeah, you can never know whether you actually have the hardware or not :D
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2012-01-20T13:50:45 <+izua> #electronics
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2012-01-20T18:22:37 < corecode> -_-
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2012-01-20T18:56:35 < Laurenceb> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=%2fpublic%2fSTe2ecommunities%2fmcu%2fLists%2fcortex_mx_stm32%2fuClinux%20STM32F2%20Secure%20communications%20to%20the%20target&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D7580009C4E14902C3CDE46A77F0FFD06506F5B&TopicsView=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.st.com%2Fpublic%2FSTe2ecommunities%2Fmcu%2FLists%2Fcortex_mx_stm32%2FAllItems.aspx&currentviews=17
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2012-01-20T20:04:37 < karlp> that's a goddawful link with no context Laurenceb :)
2012-01-20T20:05:04 <+Steffanx> I'm allowed to abuse my power for that karlp ? :P
2012-01-20T20:05:07 <+Steffanx> No, i wont
2012-01-20T20:05:33 < karlp> so what, uboot runs in the flash, and extmem contains a uclinux?
2012-01-20T20:05:48 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-01-20T20:05:48 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-01-20.html
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2012-01-20T20:06:31 <+Steffanx> uclinux is pretty fancy. I should try it too once
2012-01-20T20:06:49 < karlp> it's pretty neat :)
2012-01-20T20:06:54 < karlp> I did my thesis on uclinux
2012-01-20T20:07:00 <+dekar__> I hate how it lacks memory protection
2012-01-20T20:07:09 < karlp> um, you know that's the reason it exists right?
2012-01-20T20:07:10 <+Steffanx> What do you do karlp ?
2012-01-20T20:07:11 <+dekar__> well it can have kernel memory protection I think
2012-01-20T20:07:15 < karlp> it's for processors that don't have mmus
2012-01-20T20:07:15 <+dekar__> still sucks imo
2012-01-20T20:07:28 <+dekar__> I hate processors that lack an mmu
2012-01-20T20:07:29 < karlp> so, get a real processor, get a real mmu, get a real os that supports said mmu :)
2012-01-20T20:07:33 <+Steffanx> dekar__ .. it's a little trade off ..
2012-01-20T20:07:41 <+dekar__> I hate trade off
2012-01-20T20:07:53 <+dekar__> my next usb device will be tegra3 based
2012-01-20T20:07:54 <+dekar__> :P
2012-01-20T20:07:56 <+dekar__> jk
2012-01-20T20:07:58 <+Steffanx> Sure
2012-01-20T20:08:30 < karlp> Steffanx: these days? or when I was working on uclinux?
2012-01-20T20:08:42 <+Steffanx> Your thesis
2012-01-20T20:09:10 < karlp> the idea was "intelligent furniture"
2012-01-20T20:09:17 < karlp> a coffee table with a chess board,
2012-01-20T20:09:37 < karlp> that could play chess, with any pieces you wanted, no buttons, just some lights through translucent glass on the board
2012-01-20T20:09:46 <+Steffanx> Sounds nice
2012-01-20T20:09:48 < karlp> detecting when pieces were picked up and put down,
2012-01-20T20:10:00 < karlp> I got good marks for it, but it didn't finish.
2012-01-20T20:10:05 <+Steffanx> :(
2012-01-20T20:10:21 < karlp> had it all working on a 3x3 board, but my supervisor and I both missed a problem that made ti stop working on 8x8
2012-01-20T20:10:23 <+Steffanx> I like the idea
2012-01-20T20:10:32 < karlp> yeah, it was pretty cool, I was really happy with it.
2012-01-20T20:10:55 < karlp> still things I like to do, battery powered, idea was to last for XX months, rather than a session or two.
2012-01-20T20:11:00 < karlp> non-intrusive computing
2012-01-20T20:11:02 <+dekar__> at least your supervisor had an idea what you were doing XD
2012-01-20T20:11:13 <+Steffanx> Mine didnt
2012-01-20T20:11:20 < karlp> anyway, a large part of it was getting gnuchess running on uclinux
2012-01-20T20:11:26 <+Steffanx> She couldn't or didn't really help me
2012-01-20T20:11:35 <+dekar__> When I started with the stm32 it was for a thesis as well, but I had no one who knew about embedded stuff
2012-01-20T20:11:46 < karlp> a thesis in what?
2012-01-20T20:12:09 <+dekar__> computer science
2012-01-20T20:12:12 < karlp> ahh,
2012-01-20T20:12:16 < karlp> yeah, I was in EE, not CS :)
2012-01-20T20:12:34 <+Steffanx> You finished your uni dekar__ ? I thought you were still studying
2012-01-20T20:13:04 <+Steffanx> You have any info about it on the web karlp ?
2012-01-20T20:13:07 < karlp> this was also back in 2000, when you couldn't get an openwrt router running full linux for half the price of the dev board I was using back then.
2012-01-20T20:13:12 <+dekar__> I am still studying, I am doing this cooperative bachelor thing and that has 4 thesis's
2012-01-20T20:13:12 < karlp> let me see if I can find my thesis.
2012-01-20T20:13:18 < karlp> I probably have the pdf for it I had to submit,
2012-01-20T20:13:22 <+Steffanx> 4 :S
2012-01-20T20:13:34 < karlp> the uni student page I had has long gone of course.
2012-01-20T20:13:37 <+Steffanx> 2 times / year dekar__ ?
2012-01-20T20:13:58 <+dekar__> Steffanx, one in semester 3, 5 and two in 7
2012-01-20T20:14:16 <+Steffanx> Two in one semester.. heavy sh*t
2012-01-20T20:14:57 <+Steffanx> All I had is two times an internship and a thesis
2012-01-20T20:15:10 <+dekar__> I would link you my pdf, but it's under NDA since I made that for the company I work at -.-"
2012-01-20T20:15:31 <+Steffanx> NDA.. you just forgot about the NDA
2012-01-20T20:15:38 <+Steffanx>  /kick zlog
2012-01-20T20:16:07 <+dekar__> I should tell my boss to make a copy where he removed all the parts he wants to stay private
2012-01-20T20:16:13 -!- Tom_itx [~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-20T20:16:24 <+Steffanx> wb mr Tom_itx
2012-01-20T20:17:00 < karlp> http://is.beeroclock.net/~karlp/coffeechess_thesis.pdf should work.
2012-01-20T20:17:33 < karlp> parts of that are cringeworthy, but it was a long time ago....
2012-01-20T20:18:05 <+dekar__> Steffanx, also it was in german so idk whether you wanna read it :P
2012-01-20T20:18:20 <+Steffanx> I can.. sort of
2012-01-20T20:18:50 <+Steffanx> It probably 'technical German' so that's a little harder for me
2012-01-20T20:19:51 < karlp> Steffanx: if you're really interested, I can probably dig up the students who did "further work" after me.
2012-01-20T20:21:05 <+Steffanx> 64 LDRs costs
2012-01-20T20:21:05 <+Steffanx> 64 LDR's approximately $120 <= WHERE?!
2012-01-20T20:21:16 < karlp> back then, before RoHS requirements :)
2012-01-20T20:21:37 < karlp> I kinda wish I had more pictures and things,
2012-01-20T20:21:48 < karlp> but the thesis was mostly finished before demo day.
2012-01-20T20:22:02 < karlp> I kept working on the hardware right up to the day.
2012-01-20T20:22:06 <+Steffanx> I can get 50 LDR's for 2 euro .. china :D
2012-01-20T20:22:29 < karlp> yeah, well, this was also when getting things from china meant knowing someone in china, or ordering 100000
2012-01-20T20:22:31 <+Steffanx> Anyway, the idea was pretty simple, but i like it
2012-01-20T20:22:40 <+Steffanx> I just don't like to play chess
2012-01-20T20:22:43 < karlp> it was only a bachelor thesis, don't expect too much
2012-01-20T20:23:15 <+Steffanx> My bachelor thesis was about that sonic anemometer. Which was actually too difficult for me :)
2012-01-20T20:23:30 < karlp> that looked pretty serious mathwise iirc
2012-01-20T20:23:42 < karlp> hang on, that was the one with the four wires and no moving parts or something right?
2012-01-20T20:23:47 < karlp> am I thinking of the right one?
2012-01-20T20:23:48 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-20T20:23:54 <+dekar__> Steffanx, pm'ed you a link
2012-01-20T20:23:57 < karlp> yeah, that looked pretty hardcore
2012-01-20T20:24:03 < karlp> went over my head :)
2012-01-20T20:24:14 < karlp> I understood the idea, but was glad I wasn't trying to do it :)
2012-01-20T20:24:16 <+Steffanx> My math was simple.. that's why it didn't work out as I expected
2012-01-20T20:27:11 <+Steffanx> I still have some plans to give it a second try
2012-01-20T20:27:23 <+Steffanx> Rebuild it from scratch
2012-01-20T20:28:51 < karlp> here's a touch more... http://tera.tweak.pagekite.me/default.htm
2012-01-20T20:29:03 < karlp> found an archive of my old student pages
2012-01-20T20:29:58 < karlp> man, some things seem to have advanced so much since then, some things, not so much at all.
2012-01-20T20:30:10 <+Steffanx> "Current screen shot of the console output of the device" <= .output?
2012-01-20T20:30:20 <+Steffanx> screenshot?
2012-01-20T20:31:01 <+Steffanx> Screenshots != ascii file :)
2012-01-20T20:32:00 <+Steffanx> Was it really that advanced that you it was necessary to use uclinux karlp ? Or it is this a 'because i can' ?
2012-01-20T20:32:08 < BrainDamage> it's OCR output on a screenshot
2012-01-20T20:32:09 <+Steffanx> *or was it a
2012-01-20T20:40:55 <+Steffanx> Neat dislays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAoC818Mxy4 :D
2012-01-20T20:44:13 <+dekar__> those look weird XD
2012-01-20T20:45:11 < karlp> it was then :)
2012-01-20T20:45:24 < karlp> actually, uclinux was already ported to that platform.
2012-01-20T20:45:28 < karlp> gnuchess wasn't
2012-01-20T20:46:13 < karlp> for my thesis the idea was using an existing chess engine, porting it to any embedded platform that could do the sensing and just putting the pieces together
2012-01-20T20:47:13 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-20T20:48:30 <+dekar__> isn't there any basic chess lib in portable c? dunno gnu chess but it sounds bloated
2012-01-20T20:49:19 < karlp> not really, it's only problem was mallocing in non-friendly pattern.
2012-01-20T20:49:29 < karlp> the only really "porting" was providing a new kmalloc,
2012-01-20T20:49:43 < karlp> which is probably actually standard in uclinux now, seeing as I didn't write it anyway.
2012-01-20T20:50:17 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-20T20:50:22 < karlp> "basic chess lib" is a bit of an odd question, people have very mixed ideas of what a chess engine should be.
2012-01-20T20:50:47 < karlp> congratulations slovenia, you deserved to win that.
2012-01-20T20:50:55 <+Steffanx> hmpf
2012-01-20T20:50:57 < karlp> now let's see how croatia v norway goes.
2012-01-20T20:50:59 <+Steffanx> hand ball :(
2012-01-20T20:51:05 < karlp> god I hate it.
2012-01-20T20:51:13 < karlp> one of the downsides of moving to iceland.
2012-01-20T20:51:16 <+Steffanx> So why you watch it?
2012-01-20T20:51:32 < karlp> we happen to be reasonably decent at it, unlike any other sport iceland tries.
2012-01-20T20:51:44 < karlp> so the rest of the country (including my girlfriend) stop everything to watch
2012-01-20T20:51:50 <+Steffanx> We.. lol you aren't really from iceland are you?
2012-01-20T20:51:54 < karlp> hey, silver medal at the last olympics!
2012-01-20T20:52:07 < karlp> I was born here, but I grew up in australia, parents are 50/50
2012-01-20T20:52:08 <+Steffanx> Originally ..
2012-01-20T20:52:12 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-20T20:52:26 < karlp> iceland's awesome! I'm here because I love it.
2012-01-20T20:52:33 < karlp> I just don't really care much about handball :)
2012-01-20T20:52:49 < karlp> when I worked and lived in america I learnt about baseball, because my friends there were into it.
2012-01-20T20:52:53 < karlp> doesn't mean I liked it,
2012-01-20T20:53:02 < karlp> but it's a sideaffect of living somewhere :)
2012-01-20T20:53:15 <+Steffanx> Another weird sport.. baseball
2012-01-20T20:54:09 < karlp> tell me about it :)
2012-01-20T20:54:17 < karlp> but, I like cricket, so I guess I can't complain
2012-01-20T20:54:22 <+dekar__> I guess I'd also pick iceland over australian heat
2012-01-20T20:54:22 <+Steffanx> I have to confess.. this country is into soccer
2012-01-20T20:54:28 < karlp> australian heat?
2012-01-20T20:54:31 < karlp> what's heat?
2012-01-20T20:54:34 < karlp> oh, temperature
2012-01-20T20:54:36 <+dekar__> like it's so uber warm there
2012-01-20T20:54:43 < karlp> I thought you were talking about sports :)
2012-01-20T20:54:51 < karlp> temperature is relative
2012-01-20T20:54:54 < karlp> there's more to life than weatehr
2012-01-20T20:55:12 <+dekar__> I know this one australian and he's complaining about temperature at school etc
2012-01-20T20:55:38 <+dekar__> I think germany is too hot in summer already
2012-01-20T20:55:47 <+dekar__> can't imagine how aus must be
2012-01-20T20:55:47 <+Steffanx> It is
2012-01-20T20:56:26 <+dekar__> and about sports I really don't care much, people here are totally into soccer - to the point we don't have school when germany plays worldcup
2012-01-20T20:56:40 <+Steffanx> LOL?
2012-01-20T20:56:49 <+Steffanx> Even WE aren't THAT bad
2012-01-20T20:58:08 <+Steffanx> I had an internship during the wc.. i had to work all day long :P
2012-01-20T20:58:29 <+dekar__> I wouldn't have cared :)
2012-01-20T21:00:00 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but you are a weird german guy
2012-01-20T21:00:54 <+dekar__> Yeah I guess I must be broken somehow, I should inhale more magic smoke to refill my inner workings :)
2012-01-20T21:24:50 < karlp> you didn't have school last time it was world cup, because it was in germany :)
2012-01-20T21:24:57 < karlp> I doubt you'll skip school next time
2012-01-20T21:25:10 < karlp> where's we Steffanx?
2012-01-20T21:25:18 <+Steffanx> Next to Germany
2012-01-20T21:25:22 <+Steffanx> On the left side
2012-01-20T21:25:36 < BrainDamage> moon?
2012-01-20T21:25:48 <+Steffanx> Is that on the left side?
2012-01-20T21:25:57 < BrainDamage> currently yes
2012-01-20T21:26:16 < BrainDamage> in a few hours more towards in front
2012-01-20T21:29:57 <+dekar__> well I once read this page where they stated the nazis had a secret base at the dark side of the moon...
2012-01-20T21:31:21 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-20T21:31:24 <+Steffanx> Good story
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2012-01-20T21:35:04 < jpa-> dekar__: isn't that the plot of iron sky? :P
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2012-01-20T21:50:03 <+Steffanx> SOPA … with drawn. You free cake for everyone
2012-01-20T21:50:13 <+Steffanx> *withdrawn
2012-01-20T21:51:50 < BrainDamage> wasn't it just PIPA, and SOPA delayed?
2012-01-20T21:52:11 <+Steffanx> Latest news.
2012-01-20T21:52:44 <+dekar__> jpa-, idk, never heard of iron sky
2012-01-20T21:53:15 <+dekar__> w/e, americans are free to give up their freedom
2012-01-20T21:53:18 <+dekar__> idc too much
2012-01-20T21:53:57 -!- Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
2012-01-20T21:54:07 <+Steffanx> And you germans are a little paranoid sometimes dekar__
2012-01-20T21:55:59 <+dekar__> Steffanx, what makes you think so?
2012-01-20T21:56:17 <+Steffanx> The thinks i read about Germany once in a while
2012-01-20T21:56:28 <+dekar__> *things :)
2012-01-20T21:56:41 <+Steffanx> thinks yes :P
2012-01-20T21:58:52 <+dekar__> did you know that we have our own digitally signed email system that costs money for each email?
2012-01-20T21:59:18 <+dekar__> I don't think there will be spam on it XD
2012-01-20T21:59:34 <+dekar__> delivery is guaranteed for that system, it's legally binding as is a letter
2012-01-20T21:59:55 <+Steffanx> huh?
2012-01-20T22:00:39 <+dekar__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail
2012-01-20T22:01:31 <+Steffanx> Only in Germany
2012-01-20T22:01:38 <+dekar__> yeah
2012-01-20T22:01:47 <+dekar__> german email system for germany :P
2012-01-20T22:02:02 <+Steffanx> As in .. the new "Only in America" :P
2012-01-20T22:02:15 < karlp> dekar, it's nice, but there's still too many core parts that are only in america, even they pretend they're international
2012-01-20T22:04:13 <+dekar__> karlp, what do you mean? the dns system?
2012-01-20T22:19:22 < jpa-> .com registration? it's not very important :P
2012-01-20T22:19:43 < jpa-> google is probably the most important part of internet that is still american
2012-01-20T22:20:30 <+dekar__> I could live without them
2012-01-20T22:21:12 < Laurenceb_> the site is a little screwed up now
2012-01-20T22:21:18 < Laurenceb_> i hate the links
2012-01-20T22:21:47 <+Steffanx> 'the site'?
2012-01-20T22:21:50 <+Steffanx> Define the site?
2012-01-20T22:22:00 <+Steffanx> You mean those google 'i like to track you' links?
2012-01-20T22:22:05 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-01-20T22:22:09 < Laurenceb_> i mean google search
2012-01-20T22:22:16 <+Steffanx> I guess dekar__ blocks google analytics too?
2012-01-20T22:22:35 <+dekar__> ya
2012-01-20T22:22:42 <+dekar__> though I also use it XD
2012-01-20T22:23:06 <+Steffanx> It's nice.. especially the new real time feature
2012-01-20T22:23:24 <+dekar__> haven't logged in in about a year
2012-01-20T22:23:28 <+dekar__> was too depressing
2012-01-20T22:23:45 <+dekar__> visits went down from like 12k unique to around 6k unique
2012-01-20T22:23:51 < BrainDamage> I se ghostery + adblock
2012-01-20T22:23:51 <+Steffanx> You can see the amount of visitors on your website in real time
2012-01-20T22:23:56 < BrainDamage> use*
2012-01-20T22:24:01 < BrainDamage> I block most of the shit
2012-01-20T22:24:01 <+Steffanx> and the amount of page views/second etc.
2012-01-20T22:24:22 <+dekar__> I don't think I have views per second lol
2012-01-20T22:25:25 <+Steffanx> 6k/day?
2012-01-20T22:25:36 <+dekar__> yeah
2012-01-20T22:25:43 <+Steffanx> You shouldn't complain..
2012-01-20T22:25:52 <+dekar__> lol
2012-01-20T22:26:23 <+dekar__> I made 150?/mo from google ads when I has 12k unique visitors (around 100k page loads) per day
2012-01-20T22:26:31 < karlp> what site is this?
2012-01-20T22:26:35 <+Steffanx> I like it dekar__ : http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120120-212627.png
2012-01-20T22:26:35 <+dekar__> *I had
2012-01-20T22:27:24 <+dekar__> karlp, it's some forum I started ages ago? I quit playing that game about a year after I started the forum XD http://forum.wc3edit.net/
2012-01-20T22:27:46 <+dekar__> but I liked the extra pocket money, I was still in school back then
2012-01-20T22:29:43 < Laurenceb_> anyone here got uclinux running on stm32?
2012-01-20T22:30:06 <+Steffanx> !google uclinux stm32
2012-01-20T22:30:08 <+Steffanx> We need a bot
2012-01-20T22:30:13 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-20T22:30:57 < karlp> Laurenceb_: you're the closest to that :) you put up th elink.
2012-01-20T22:31:13 < karlp> given my memory of things, you're not going anywhere without external memory.
2012-01-20T22:31:26 < karlp> uclinux distros haven't gotten any smaller.
2012-01-20T22:31:31 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-01-20T22:31:51 < Laurenceb_> it looks fun, maybe not that practical
2012-01-20T22:33:54 <+dekar__> Steffanx, I just logged in, I don't see that live data
2012-01-20T22:33:56 <+dekar__> where is it?
2012-01-20T22:34:06 <+Steffanx> Home
2012-01-20T22:34:33 <+Steffanx> REALTIME (BÈTA)
2012-01-20T22:34:54 <+Steffanx> Perhaps you still have to apply for the beta (I did)
2012-01-20T22:35:17 < karlp> i'm going to go out on a limb, make wild, unsubstantiated claims, and state that stm32 is a fantastic replacement for any avr/pic designs, except the most space constrained, (attiny13 6 pin stuff is hard to beat) and most msp430 designs
2012-01-20T22:35:35 < karlp> but for full linux? just move up to ralink/atheros/broadcom SoC and be done with it
2012-01-20T22:35:44 < karlp> anyway, more beer, more beer, more beer more beer
2012-01-20T22:35:49 < karlp> happy friday night good people
2012-01-20T22:35:52  * karlp waves
2012-01-20T22:35:53 <+Steffanx> bb
2012-01-20T22:46:18 < jpa-> karlp: for simple applications, the simplicity of avr/pic is great
2012-01-20T22:50:33 <+Steffanx> Agreed
2012-01-20T22:51:54 <+dekar__> I read you could get those old refurbished msm7xxx ARM SoC for less than a euro each from china (used chips, unsoldered)
2012-01-20T22:52:18 <+dekar__> pretty awesome imo, I should use those for my next project
2012-01-20T22:52:46 <+dekar__> they're ARMv6 and have an MMU as well as a GPU
2012-01-20T22:56:14 < BrainDamage> do raspberry pi have mmu?
2012-01-20T22:56:21 < BrainDamage> iirc they run regular linux
2012-01-20T22:56:22 <+dekar__> I think so
2012-01-20T22:56:29 < BrainDamage> so I'd assume so
2012-01-20T22:56:36 < BrainDamage> and they're like 20£
2012-01-20T22:57:22 <+dekar__> I should order a bunch, when will they be available?
2012-01-20T22:57:39 < BrainDamage> like end of this month-next
2012-01-20T22:58:01 <+Steffanx> You can only order one the first batch dekar__ :P
2012-01-20T22:58:01 <+dekar__> I mean like, when can I order one and get it like two weeks later
2012-01-20T22:58:01 < BrainDamage> altought it has been delayed multiple times
2012-01-20T22:58:35 <+dekar__> I still want one to show off some Qt demo I wrote and rub that into the faces of some of my co-workers :P
2012-01-20T22:58:53 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-20T22:59:02 <+dekar__> they dismissed the panda board and some atom cause they want something more powerful
2012-01-20T22:59:11 <+dekar__> for a simple touch enabled user interface
2012-01-20T22:59:14 <+dekar__> -.-"
2012-01-20T23:00:14 <+dekar__> they even gave up on designing their own user interface
2012-01-20T23:00:26 <+dekar__> now they want to buy some android app
2012-01-20T23:02:20 <+dekar__> I am pretty sure the raspberry pi is fast enough for fancy interfaces
2012-01-20T23:02:25 <+dekar__> even at decent resolution
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2012-01-20T23:08:38 <+dekar__> you access the gpio on the raspberry pi via character devices in the /dev filesystem?
2012-01-20T23:08:52 <+dekar__> I wonder how that affects performance
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2012-01-20T23:13:49 <+Steffanx> I guess there is no otherway .. unless you hack the driver
2012-01-20T23:14:08 <+Steffanx> The broadcom ARM used isn't very open
2012-01-20T23:14:55 <+Steffanx> *hack = reverse engineer
2012-01-20T23:15:55 <+dekar__> well the kernel module they use should be open source I guess
2012-01-20T23:16:28 <+Steffanx> I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't
2012-01-20T23:16:48 <+dekar__> then there is still ida :)
2012-01-20T23:16:49 <+Steffanx> Just like the fancy closed source graphic card drivers
2012-01-20T23:17:26 <+dekar__> closed source drivers suck on linux since linux constantly breaks compatibility with their binary interface
2012-01-20T23:17:40 <+dekar__> you have to recompile kernel modules all the time
--- Day changed Sat Jan 21 2012
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2012-01-21T00:32:23 <+Steffanx> "I read you could get those old refurbished msm7xxx ARM SoC for less than a euro each from china (used chips, unsoldered)" <= dekar__ ?
2012-01-21T00:54:00 <+dekar__> Steffanx, ya?
2012-01-21T00:54:09 <+Steffanx> Why i cannot find them?
2012-01-21T00:54:25 <+dekar__> I read that in some blogpost, lemme search for it
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2012-01-21T00:54:38 <+dekar__> some EE guy working with huge productions
2012-01-21T00:56:08 <+dekar__> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2037
2012-01-21T00:56:23 <+dekar__> A second partial measure could be to manage e-waste better. E-waste is harvested in bulk for used parts. One can purchase crudely desoldered MSM7000-series chips (the brains of many Android smartphones) by the pound, at around ten cents for a chip.
2012-01-21T00:57:17 <+dekar__> that guy is cool, subscribe him :)
2012-01-21T00:57:41 <+Steffanx> 'reballed' … pass
2012-01-21T00:58:02 <+dekar__> Steffanx, what's the problem?
2012-01-21T00:58:09 <+Steffanx> Sounds like BGA
2012-01-21T00:58:17 <+dekar__> even if like half of them are broken, still a bargain
2012-01-21T00:58:24 <+dekar__> what's the problem with BGA?
2012-01-21T00:58:29 <+Steffanx> Can you solder that?
2012-01-21T00:58:34 <+dekar__> just heat it up and wait I guess
2012-01-21T00:58:38 <+dekar__> haven't done it
2012-01-21T00:58:41 <+dekar__> doesn't sound hard
2012-01-21T00:58:50 < Tom_itx> but how do you test the inner bonds?
2012-01-21T00:59:01 <+dekar__> I would use that fancy hot air reflow thing we have at work :)
2012-01-21T00:59:03 <+Steffanx> x-ray :
2012-01-21T00:59:05 <+Steffanx> D
2012-01-21T00:59:14 < Tom_itx> may as well hire it done
2012-01-21T00:59:52 <+dekar__> Steffanx, only used the hot air thing to burn some stuff so far -> with superior results
2012-01-21T00:59:59 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-21T01:00:18 <+dekar__> but that would work, wouldn't it?
2012-01-21T01:00:23 <+dekar__> add a ton of flux and melt it
2012-01-21T01:00:27 <+Steffanx> Not sure, never tried it
2012-01-21T01:00:35 <+Steffanx> I would go with for a reflow oven
2012-01-21T01:00:45 <+dekar__> we don't have one
2012-01-21T01:00:48 <+Steffanx> I still have to buy a little oven.. have all the components :D
2012-01-21T01:01:18 <+dekar__> I still get all that spam from chinese component sellers -.-
2012-01-21T01:01:34 <+dekar__> they have uber cheap offers though
2012-01-21T01:01:49 <+Steffanx> You shouldn't dump your emailaddress everywhere
2012-01-21T01:02:01 <+dekar__> I dumped it at _one_ chinese page
2012-01-21T01:02:29 <+dekar__> wanted those broadcom 10G phy modules
2012-01-21T01:04:51 <+Steffanx> I want 100.000 euro
2012-01-21T01:04:56 <+dekar__> me too
2012-01-21T01:05:20 <+Steffanx> And now it's time for tbbt
2012-01-21T01:05:26 <+dekar__> I would get me a helicopter :)
2012-01-21T01:05:49 <+Steffanx> Can you get that for 100.000e?
2012-01-21T01:06:19 <+dekar__> used ones are like 20k?
2012-01-21T01:06:39 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-21T01:06:58 <+dekar__> they don't take too much gas, around 25 liters per hour
2012-01-21T01:07:19 <+Steffanx> oh, then you still have 80.000 for that
2012-01-21T01:07:35 <+dekar__> also they're pretty fast, around 200-250km/h
2012-01-21T01:07:52 <+Steffanx> Still need a license
2012-01-21T01:07:57 <+dekar__> no one is blocking you, you can always go as fast as you like and fly straight to the target
2012-01-21T01:08:15 <+dekar__> the most expensive part of the license is that you need flight hours
2012-01-21T01:08:17 < BrainDamage> well, there's air traffic control
2012-01-21T01:08:21 <+dekar__> you can get those cheap in aus
2012-01-21T01:08:34 < BrainDamage> also, I'd guess there's min & max altitude
2012-01-21T01:08:40 <+Steffanx> austria of australia? :P
2012-01-21T01:08:42 <+dekar__> you can fly those pesticide planes in aus to get hours
2012-01-21T01:08:49 <+dekar__> australia
2012-01-21T01:09:12 <+dekar__> supposedly really cheap
2012-01-21T01:09:29 <+Steffanx> You can fly to AU too
2012-01-21T01:09:45 <+dekar__> well I heard in aus every farmer has a plane
2012-01-21T01:09:51 <+dekar__> thus it's uber cheap
2012-01-21T01:10:05 <+dekar__> one of my school teachers did that
2012-01-21T01:10:27 <+Steffanx> plane <> helicopter
2012-01-21T01:10:31 <+dekar__> only was a few k in total, barely more than a license for cars I think
2012-01-21T01:10:44 <+dekar__> Steffanx, do they need a different license to fly?
2012-01-21T01:10:55 <+Steffanx> no idea
2012-01-21T01:10:59 <+dekar__> me neither
2012-01-21T01:11:01 <+Steffanx> i guess so
2012-01-21T01:11:14 <+dekar__> they surely also have helicopters for pesticides :)
2012-01-21T01:11:34 <+Steffanx> Go for a full size quadrocopter
2012-01-21T01:11:46 <+dekar__> I'd prefer a helicopter over a plane for parking purposes
2012-01-21T01:12:15 < BrainDamage> if it wouldn't be for landing places
2012-01-21T01:12:19 < BrainDamage> gliders are cool
2012-01-21T01:12:23 < BrainDamage> 25€ for a lift
2012-01-21T01:12:28 < BrainDamage> and you can travel half eu
2012-01-21T01:12:38 <+dekar__> hm
2012-01-21T01:12:41 < BrainDamage> shitty load carrying capability tough
2012-01-21T01:12:46 <+dekar__> helicopters can do that :)
2012-01-21T01:12:53 <+Steffanx> Use the companies credit card
2012-01-21T01:13:22 <+dekar__> Steffanx, idk what's wrong with the credit card, I had problems ordering that 1200usd fpga already
2012-01-21T01:13:31 <+dekar__> took me like three tries
2012-01-21T01:13:35 <+Steffanx> hehe
2012-01-21T01:13:44 <+dekar__> digikey always was like "authorization failed" n stuff
2012-01-21T01:14:02 <+dekar__> so I gotta look into that first
2012-01-21T01:14:24 <+dekar__> but I really feel like the company is in urgent need of a helicopter
2012-01-21T01:15:04 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-21T01:15:57 <+dekar__> we have giant gardens around the building so I guess I could park it somewhere behind it :)
2012-01-21T01:16:25 <+dekar__> the only problem would be maneuvering it into the garage at my place
2012-01-21T01:18:57 <+Steffanx> No roof on 'your' place?
2012-01-21T01:19:20 <+Steffanx> Helicopters land on roofs.. you should know that
2012-01-21T01:19:27 <+dekar__> It isn't a flat roof
2012-01-21T01:20:04 <+dekar__> besides I am only rending, I guess neighbors would hate me for landing such a loud vehicle twice a day
2012-01-21T01:20:13 <+dekar__> and? probably sue me :)
2012-01-21T01:20:43 <+Steffanx> They should be happy you don't land it 3 times/day
2012-01-21T01:21:17 <+dekar__> I am pretty sure you can only do that outside of cities in germany -.-"
2012-01-21T01:21:31 <+dekar__> on the other hand, who cares about living in a city when you can fly :D
2012-01-21T01:27:00 <+dekar__> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Versatronics-RV1s-Pick-and-Place-Machine-/170659568094?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27bc1a59de#ht_500wt_898
2012-01-21T01:27:18 <+dekar__> that's so much cheaper than what I would have guessed O.o
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2012-01-21T07:59:39 < zippe> Ugh, what is up with texane/stlink reporting zero for flash size?
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2012-01-21T13:06:51 < karlp> zippe: I've seen that occasionally when I've ctrl-c'd in gdb and stuff, an unplug/plug normally works.
2012-01-21T13:07:08 < karlp> noq sure yet what causes it.
2012-01-21T13:14:32 < karlp> as for gpio in linux/raspberry pi, you can access it from userspace via the char devs, but you can also write a kernel driver for it yourself.
2012-01-21T13:14:52 <+Steffanx> Sure?
2012-01-21T13:14:56 < karlp> its not a part that is a closed source blob from broadcom, that's just the accelerated graphics
2012-01-21T13:15:33 <+Steffanx> Show me the datasheet of what goes where? Which registers the i2c has etc. :P
2012-01-21T13:15:55 <+Steffanx> afaik broadcom has no public info about things like that
2012-01-21T13:15:56 < karlp> I'm basing this on the support for gpio in all the other broadcom socs in linux.
2012-01-21T13:16:26 < karlp> you will only be able to write a kernel driver for the gpios that are available via the char devs,
2012-01-21T13:16:44 <+Steffanx> I can find a few datasheets of broadcom SoCs on the web, but it doesn't look like those datasheets are published by broadcom
2012-01-21T13:17:30 < karlp> I don't have any performance numbers, but I use gpios fromuser space on linux, and it works just fine.
2012-01-21T13:17:43 < karlp> there's existing drivers for bitbanging i2c, spi, one wire
2012-01-21T13:17:52 < Laurenceb_> on broadcom?
2012-01-21T13:17:53 <+Steffanx> That sucks
2012-01-21T13:17:58 <+Steffanx> bitbang..
2012-01-21T13:18:00 < Laurenceb_> bitbang?!
2012-01-21T13:18:06 < karlp> that's one way,
2012-01-21T13:18:24 < karlp> normally, the spi interfaces are already used up talking to flash :)
2012-01-21T13:18:45 < karlp> I'm going on what support is in openwrt
2012-01-21T13:18:52 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-21T13:19:00 < karlp> Laurenceb_: I'm using an atheros soc, but the broadcom socs have the same gpio support in the code.
2012-01-21T13:19:50 < karlp> I can not guarantee, but I'm 99.99% sure tha tthe raspberry pi gpios will work just like the ones on my atheros soc.
2012-01-21T13:20:17 <+Steffanx> Who knows, but I'm pretty sure i read something about it being a closed source kernel thingy
2012-01-21T13:20:19 < karlp> as will any spare i2c/spi interfaces and uarts
2012-01-21T13:21:18 < karlp> we'll all know in a month or so :)
2012-01-21T13:23:03 <+Steffanx> I think i was wrong
2012-01-21T13:23:09 <+Steffanx> They don't say anything about it
2012-01-21T13:23:29 <+Steffanx> "The Foundation will not include a GPIO driver in the initial release, standard linux GPIO drivers should work with minimal modification.[9] The Foundation will not include a SPI driver in the initial release, we hope the community might write one.[10] The Foundation will not include an I2C driver in the initial release, we hope the community might provide one, standard linux I2C drivers should work with minimal modification"
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2012-01-21T13:36:56 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2012-01-21T13:37:12 < Laurenceb_> how are you supposed to write a driver with no documentation
2012-01-21T13:37:58 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2012-01-21T13:45:43 < zyp> reverse engineering? wouldn't be the first time :p
2012-01-21T15:23:59 < jpa-> bitbanging i2c/spi works surprisingly well on a 800+MHz processor.. doesn't take much time :P
2012-01-21T15:26:24 <+Steffanx> The spi/i2c is broken out on the headers, so no need to bitbang it
2012-01-21T15:28:58 < jpa-> yeah, as soon as someone writes a driver :P
2012-01-21T15:29:22 < jpa-> probably quite easy though, if there is any documentation for a similar chip
2012-01-21T15:29:32 <+Steffanx> There is
2012-01-21T15:29:37 <+Steffanx> Somewhere on the web
2012-01-21T15:31:10 < jpa-> oh, the web
2012-01-21T15:31:20 < jpa-> i have one in the corner of the ceiling
2012-01-21T15:34:10 <+Steffanx> Ok, copy it and make it part of the web
2012-01-21T15:34:25 <+Steffanx> *scan
2012-01-21T15:35:12 < jpa-> it is already a part of the web
2012-01-21T15:35:16 <+Steffanx> ok ok
2012-01-21T15:35:26 < jpa-> just missing the tubes
2012-01-21T15:35:30 <+Steffanx> So why it's in the corner of the ceilig then?
2012-01-21T15:36:00 < jpa-> because if it wasn't, i would have cleaned it away already
2012-01-21T15:38:24 <+Steffanx> Sorry, I lost the point of this conversation
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2012-01-21T16:48:52 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2012-01-21T16:49:10 <+Steffanx> Why?
2012-01-21T16:49:54 < Laurenceb_> <Steffanx> Somewhere on the web
2012-01-21T16:49:54 < Laurenceb_> <jpa-> oh, the web
2012-01-21T16:49:54 < Laurenceb_> <jpa-> i have one in the corner of the ceiling
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2012-01-21T20:34:33 < sunilg> I have loaded some code in RAM and jumping to that code using label.I have even tried using function pointer. But it either hangs or goes in usage fault handler.Following is code http://pastebin.com/itDXuRUx  Can anybody tell me whats wrong with code?
2012-01-21T20:35:18 < jpa-> is your code compiled so that it expects to be loaded at that address?
2012-01-21T20:37:24 < sunilg> ya.. I have loaded it in program itself. Just for trying it out I have taken address of ram statically.
2012-01-21T20:37:26 < sunilg> I am using stm32 h107 olimex board
2012-01-21T20:37:27 < jpa-> though code that simple shouldn't even have anything position-dependent
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2012-01-21T20:37:54 < jpa-> can you put the compiled .elf somewhere?
2012-01-21T20:39:58 < sunilg> jpa: where should I upload it. I can mail you if u say so.
2012-01-21T20:40:53 < jpa-> sunilg: try http://fpaste.dy.fi/
2012-01-21T20:42:43 < sunilg> http://fpaste.dy.fi/3WC
2012-01-21T20:44:19 < core> i am trying to compile USB_SIMPLE code but i am getting error :  undefined reference to `memcpy' for usb_standard.c what should i do to get out of this error i wasted whole day and finally i wrote my own function ...... i also added following option in arm-none-eabi-ld utility
2012-01-21T20:44:20 < core> -L"<CodeSourcery>/Sourcery_G++_Lite/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/4.5.2/armv6-m" -lgcc -L"<CodeSourcery>/Sourcery_G++_Lite/arm-none-eabi/lib/armv6-m" -lc
2012-01-21T20:48:06 < jpa-> sunilg: hmm yeah, function pointer should work; goto will not work because it would pop the stack without ever pushing it
2012-01-21T20:48:50 < jpa-> sunilg: maybe because of the thumb interworking stuff the function pointer should be orred with 1
2012-01-21T20:50:06 < sunilg> jpa: ohh... I didn't think about it for goto. I will try it out...
2012-01-21T20:53:33 < jpa-> sunilg: try   fp = codeaddr | 1;  fp();
2012-01-21T20:54:51 < jpa-> core: try linking to arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb2/libc.a
2012-01-21T20:55:22 < jpa-> assuming you are on a STM32; the armv6-m won't work for cortex-m3
2012-01-21T20:56:14 < jpa-> (hmm, or will it.. wikipedia says it is a subset)
2012-01-21T20:56:54 < core> jpa :  YUP i am using arm-none-eabi-ld ultility.
2012-01-21T20:59:36 < sunilg> jpa: I tried several addresses from 0x20000094- 0x20000098. But to no success. So, I think thumb might not be problem.
2012-01-21T21:00:31 < jpa-> sunilg: do you have a debugger? you could check where the fault comes from
2012-01-21T21:03:34 < sunilg> ok.. I am checking it.
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2012-01-21T21:06:04 < zyp> what's the situation about stlink and flashing speed?
2012-01-21T21:06:41 < zyp> I'm at a friend's place now, I'm getting 1-2 kB/s, he's getting 100-150 B/s
2012-01-21T21:06:47 <+Steffanx> Waow
2012-01-21T21:07:00 < jpa-> 1-2kB/s is normal, 100-150B/s sounds like the console debug prints are on :P
2012-01-21T21:07:02 < zyp> same revision of texane's stlink
2012-01-21T21:07:27 < zyp> ah, right
2012-01-21T21:07:32 < zyp> how to turn off?
2012-01-21T21:08:10 < zyp> I think I also have the debug prints on, but my terminal might be faster
2012-01-21T21:08:16 < zyp> or something
2012-01-21T21:08:22 < zyp> I'm on os x, he's on linux
2012-01-21T21:08:39 < jpa-> there is a switch.. somewhere :P
2012-01-21T21:10:04 < zyp> actually, I don't think that's the issue
2012-01-21T21:11:14 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 34 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 31 normal]
2012-01-21T21:13:43 <+Steffanx> usb hub zyp ?
2012-01-21T21:14:15 < zyp> no hub
2012-01-21T21:20:39 < sunilg> jpa: It just hangs when fp() function call occurs.. Is it because long jump??
2012-01-21T21:21:19 < zyp> we tried another computer too, still just as slow
2012-01-21T21:21:44 < jpa-> sunilg: hangs? where does the debugger show it is, when you press ctrl-c?
2012-01-21T21:23:00 < sunilg> bus fault handler
2012-01-21T21:24:38 < jpa-> what about backtrace?
2012-01-21T21:24:52 < sunilg> actually it goes in blocking handler of following code: http://pastebin.com/PPPKNNFz
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2012-01-21T21:26:16 < jpa-> sure, that just means an illegal operation occurred
2012-01-21T21:26:23 < jpa-> backtrace should tell *where* it occurred
2012-01-21T21:26:27 < sunilg> Backtrace output:
2012-01-21T21:26:29 < sunilg> #0  blocking_handler () at vector.c:184
2012-01-21T21:26:31 < sunilg> #1  0xfffffff8 in ?? ()
2012-01-21T21:26:32 < sunilg> #2  0xfffffff8 in ?? ()
2012-01-21T21:26:34 < sunilg> Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
2012-01-21T21:28:00 < jpa-> ah
2012-01-21T21:28:09 < jpa-> maybe this will help http://kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/other/stm32-hardfault-backtrace.html
2012-01-21T21:30:34 < jpa-> though hmm, strange that your gdb doesn't recognize 0xfffffff8 as a signal handler placeholder :P
2012-01-21T21:39:22 < sunilg> jpa: I tried the link. But same backtrace
2012-01-21T21:41:13 < jpa-> if you want, you can do    x /16 $sp  and try to trace it back manually :)
2012-01-21T21:42:16 < sunilg> all values 0
2012-01-21T21:42:24 < sunilg> at sp
2012-01-21T21:42:51 < jpa-> yeah, they are the register contents probably
2012-01-21T21:43:01 < sunilg> yup
2012-01-21T21:43:17 < jpa-> increase the count a bit, at some point you should see something starting with 08000 which might be the address where the fault happened :)
2012-01-21T21:48:34 < sunilg> I checked Bus Fault Status Register as it went in Bus fault handler. It had IMPRECISERR (Imprecise data bus error) bit set.
2012-01-21T21:49:32 < jpa-> ie. reading or writing from invalid address
2012-01-21T21:52:06 < sunilg> jpa: But why would that happen? Do we have to add anything in Linker script file. Because the address I specified is of RAM only.
2012-01-21T21:53:45 < jpa-> well, it is a tricky piece of code; difficult to say why it crashes without debugging step by step
2012-01-21T21:56:00 < sunilg> ok. I will try to for some more time. But just to clarify, Does the size of jump can be problem ?
2012-01-21T22:01:07 < jpa-> not really, because you are using C
2012-01-21T22:03:45 < sunilg> jpa: Thanx Buddy. I appreciate your help. I will try out something else and let you know if anything works.
2012-01-21T22:04:51 < jpa-> ok :)
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2012-01-21T22:24:30 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-patches/arch/arm/mach-bcm2708/include/mach/platform.h
2012-01-21T22:37:34 < Thorn> what is EXTI->IMR and EXTI->EMR? does the former cause EXTI to hold the IRQ line until released by clearing the bit in EXTI->PR and the latter generate a single IRQ pulse?
2012-01-21T22:39:14 < Thorn> (interrupt and event request mask registers respectively)
2012-01-21T22:40:44 < Laurenceb_> you can only trigger on rising or falling right?
2012-01-21T22:40:49 < Laurenceb_> not on high or low
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2012-01-21T22:43:07 < Thorn> I think that's not relevant
2012-01-21T22:43:20 < Thorn> no it looks like events have to do with wakeup
2012-01-21T22:43:34 < Thorn> and do not touch IRQ lines
2012-01-21T22:43:47 < zippe> Thorn: Events are timer and wakeup things, yes
2012-01-21T22:44:18 < Laurenceb_> also adc right?
2012-01-21T22:45:57 < Thorn> I'm trying to understand the pending interrupt stuff once and for all. looks like the NVIC will schedule another interrupt if the IRQ line is still active when the prevoius one is completed, but nobody says what clears the IRQ line. that seems peripheral dependent
2012-01-21T22:46:49 < Thorn> so e.g. speaking about EXTI you always ned to clear EXTI->PR bits manually right?
2012-01-21T22:49:29 < Thorn> also I seem th recall that this is done to avoid losing events (if another pin is flipped while you're in an EXTI interrupt you'll get another interrupt if you clear pending bits correctly)
2012-01-21T22:49:37 < Thorn> but I can't remember where I read that
2012-01-21T22:50:05 < Laurenceb_> you clear it
2012-01-21T22:50:42 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/interrupts.c#L104
2012-01-21T22:53:37 < Thorn> is there any single source that describes the workings of cortex-m interrupts completely? vendor peripherals end with IRQ lines while NVIC begins with them, and the documentations does the same thing
2012-01-21T22:54:40 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-01-21T22:54:45 < Laurenceb_> i dont think there is
2012-01-21T22:55:08 < Laurenceb_> aiui you only clear the interrupt line
2012-01-21T22:55:17 < Laurenceb_> unless you set the NVIC directly
2012-01-21T22:55:44 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/interrupts.c#L161
2012-01-21T22:55:46 < Laurenceb_> like that
2012-01-21T22:55:57 < Laurenceb_> - for software generated interrupts
2012-01-21T22:56:27 < Laurenceb_> you can also do a software generated reset in similar fashion
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2012-01-21T22:59:43 < Thorn> so even if you call NVIC_ClearPendingIRQ(IRQ_LINE); in a handler with the IRQ_LINE still active the pending bit in the NVIC will be automatically set back when you return from the handler (and another interrupt generated), right?
2012-01-21T23:00:17 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-01-21T23:00:38 < Laurenceb_> thats why you clear the EXTI
2012-01-21T23:02:50 < Laurenceb_> see figure20 in ref manual
2012-01-21T23:03:20 < Laurenceb_> i havent found an equivalent for NVIC, but i guess each line is Or with pending register then and with enable
2012-01-21T23:04:16 < Thorn> okay thanks. (I also remember from some discussion that some cortex chips have some kind of cache which may prevent the NVIC from seeing the IRQ line cleared if you do it last thing in the handler, apparently LPC17/18 has that. now what about stm32?)
2012-01-21T23:04:46 < Thorn> some*3
2012-01-21T23:05:40 < Laurenceb_> i havent ever seen that happen
2012-01-21T23:05:45  * Laurenceb_ looks in errata
2012-01-21T23:05:46 < Thorn> and you need a bus cycle to flush that cache (can't remember if reading ram is enough or you need to read the peripheral address space)
2012-01-21T23:06:26 < Thorn> I don't think errata would have that as "it's a feature not a bug" :)
2012-01-21T23:11:30 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-01-21T23:15:39 < Thorn> I still have a hard time accepting that an architecture this deep is a mere microcontroller :)
2012-01-21T23:17:30 < Thorn> apparently big ARMs (including cortex-a) have much simpler interrupt controllers, no?
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2012-01-21T23:29:42 < Thorn> wth, can't find small 7-seg 4-digit indicators with a : anywhere
--- Day changed Sun Jan 22 2012
2012-01-22T01:18:09 <+Steffanx> Yay, the kernels for the raspberrypi is available
2012-01-22T01:18:12 <+Steffanx> So start compiling
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2012-01-22T05:33:34 <+izua> flyback: close enough
2012-01-22T05:34:18 < karlp> :)
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2012-01-22T05:44:18 < karlp> focus biatch, do you haz it?!
2012-01-22T05:44:37 < karlp> that is some good battery carnage though
2012-01-22T05:45:37 <+izua> flyback, you should restock your pills brah
2012-01-22T05:48:03 < karlp> pills don't help the dt's mang
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2012-01-22T22:57:48 < zyp> anyone have any experiences with usb on F2/F4?
2012-01-22T23:04:07 < Laurenceb_> no
2012-01-22T23:05:40 < zyp> you don't count.
2012-01-22T23:05:41 < zyp> :p
2012-01-22T23:15:20 < zippe> zyp: I do
2012-01-22T23:15:30 < zippe> What's up?
2012-01-22T23:17:54 < zyp> I've went through the points on device initialization (chapter 29.17.3 in the reference manual), but I'm unable to get it working
2012-01-22T23:18:34 < zippe> Are you trying to build code from scratch, or using the ST library?
2012-01-22T23:18:37 < zyp> I'm scoping the lines now, and there is no pull-up applied on DP as it should
2012-01-22T23:18:42 < zyp> from scratch
2012-01-22T23:18:55 < zippe> Have you set the force-device-mode bit?
2012-01-22T23:18:58 < zyp> yes
2012-01-22T23:19:25 < zippe> Is PA9 configured for AF10?
2012-01-22T23:19:33 < zyp> yes
2012-01-22T23:19:40 < zippe> What's the voltage on PA9?
2012-01-22T23:19:48 < zyp> 5V
2012-01-22T23:20:00 < zippe> You've measured that, or are you just assuming?
2012-01-22T23:20:12 < zyp> have it hooked to the scope right now
2012-01-22T23:20:36 < zippe> And you're measuring at the pin, not at the USB connector?
2012-01-22T23:20:53 < zippe> The reason I ask is that I'm seeing PA9 sinking ~8x more current than the datasheet says it should
2012-01-22T23:20:59 < zippe> In VBUSdetect mode
2012-01-22T23:21:24 < zyp> I'm developing on the discovery board, so I'm measuring at the broken out PA9 pin
2012-01-22T23:21:40 < zippe> mmk, there's no blocking there
2012-01-22T23:22:11 < zippe> You're not getting SRQINT, I assume?
2012-01-22T23:22:31 < zippe> And is SDIS clear?
2012-01-22T23:22:43 < zyp> hang on, let me check
2012-01-22T23:23:05 < zippe> Also, stupid question - you did turn the USB clock on, and set the USB PLL divider correctly?
2012-01-22T23:24:00 < zyp> I double checked that aswell
2012-01-22T23:24:34 < zyp> and SDIS is clear
2012-01-22T23:28:29 < zyp> BSVLD in GOTGCTL reads as 0, that corresponds with the DP pullup not being enabled
2012-01-22T23:29:46 < zippe> Yes, I think there's not much else to do until you get that sorted
2012-01-22T23:30:16 < zippe> Have you looked at the libopencm3 code?  It's about as succinct as it comes
2012-01-22T23:31:07 < zyp> no, do you mind giving me a link to the initialization part of it?
2012-01-22T23:31:43 < Thorn> what sram would be a good match for f4? I imagine 45...55ns is way too slow and 8 or 10ns is needed?
2012-01-22T23:32:07 < zippe> zyp: https://github.com/esden/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/usb/usb_f107.c
2012-01-22T23:32:17 < zyp> thanks
2012-01-22T23:32:21 < zippe> Thorn: What do you mean by "a good match"?
2012-01-22T23:32:43 < Thorn> well, fast enough
2012-01-22T23:32:51 < zippe> How are you going to connect it?
2012-01-22T23:32:55 < Thorn> but cheap enough :)
2012-01-22T23:33:03 < zippe> What are you going to use it for?
2012-01-22T23:34:17 < Thorn> connect using the FSMC, use as RAM (for data if f4 has the same performance limitation when running code from external ram as f1)
2012-01-22T23:35:20 < zippe> Ok, so the internal SRAM in the F4 is presumably too small?
2012-01-22T23:36:13 < Thorn> compared to 1-2 Mbytes of external I'd say yes it is :)
2012-01-22T23:36:51 < zyp> you'd say?
2012-01-22T23:36:54 < zippe> Ok.  So with the AHB at 168MHz, that's ~6ns
2012-01-22T23:36:56 < Thorn> (I don't have a particular application in mind yet, just considering this as an option)
2012-01-22T23:37:02 < zyp> either you have enough memory or you don't.
2012-01-22T23:37:24 < zippe> Max 15 cycles delay in the FSMC means that 80ns is the slowest external memory that you can use
2012-01-22T23:37:49 < zippe> Routing for sub-10ns is a huge nuisance
2012-01-22T23:38:13 < zippe> Unless you're a board wizard, I would spec 15 or 20 and time for 25 or 30
2012-01-22T23:39:00 < zippe> You have a megabyte of code space in the F4; if you need more than that then you really want a bigger device all around
2012-01-22T23:40:22 < zippe> zyp: btw, the Synopsis OTG block in the F4 has been the despair of many a developer, do not lose heart.
2012-01-22T23:41:24 < zyp> :)
2012-01-22T23:41:41 < Thorn> I'm looking at buffering data coming in at ~100MHz or so and then dumping it over usb (similar to a logic analyzer)
2012-01-22T23:42:15 < zippe> How many bits wide @ 100MHz?
2012-01-22T23:42:24 < Thorn> about 4
2012-01-22T23:42:37 < zippe> USB doesn't have the bandwidth for that
2012-01-22T23:42:50 < zippe> (technically, yes.  In practice, not guaranteed)
2012-01-22T23:43:04 < Thorn> correct, so it will need to be buffered in ram
2012-01-22T23:43:15 < zippe> Dumping, not streaming?
2012-01-22T23:43:16 < Thorn> the more ram the better
2012-01-22T23:43:43 < zippe> How is the data "coming in"?
2012-01-22T23:43:47 < Thorn> forst buffering, then dumping
2012-01-22T23:44:03 < Thorn> *first
2012-01-22T23:44:48 < Thorn> actualy it's probably going to be manchester encoded
2012-01-22T23:45:05 < Thorn> which I imagine complicates things
2012-01-22T23:45:09 < zippe> Sounds to me like you need to build a frontend to do the decode & buffer
2012-01-22T23:45:22 < zippe> Then use the FSMC to talk to an interface on the frontend to pull the data out
2012-01-22T23:45:34 < Thorn> using an fpga?
2012-01-22T23:45:45 < zippe> You ought to be able to use a small FPGA to handle that
2012-01-22T23:45:53 < zippe> That'd be the obvious approach
2012-01-22T23:46:07 < Thorn> right, like OLS does
2012-01-22T23:46:11 < zippe> YEs
2012-01-22T23:46:26 < zippe> That'd be an entirely reasonable architecture to start with
2012-01-22T23:46:28 < Thorn> they have a small mcu strictly for usb communication
2012-01-22T23:46:57 < Thorn> the only thing they don't have is external sram
2012-01-22T23:53:40 < Thorn> will a multilayer pcb be required for a 100MHz bus to the SRAM?
--- Day changed Mon Jan 23 2012
2012-01-23T00:01:49 < zippe> You're going to want to go at least 4 layers
2012-01-23T00:01:55 < zippe> Just to get the power/ground routing
2012-01-23T00:02:37 < zippe> 100MHz = 10ns cycle time
2012-01-23T00:03:07 < zippe> That's going to be seriously annoying; if you've never routed stuff at that speed before and you have no board simulation tools, assume that you'll get it wrong the first few times
2012-01-23T00:03:58 < zippe> Consider going wider and slower
2012-01-23T00:04:23 < zippe> e.g. 16 wide would get you down to 25MHz
2012-01-23T00:04:39 < zippe> That would let you use 25 or 30ns cycle timing with room to spare
2012-01-23T00:05:30 < Thorn> that's an option
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2012-01-23T00:25:08 < zyp> oh, I messed up the GCCFG register offset, so VBUSBSEN weren't actually getting set
2012-01-23T00:25:44 < zyp> getting BSVLD = 1 now, but still no pullup
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2012-01-23T00:44:31 < karlp> how should structs be sized on stm32? I've got this header file: http://pastebay.com/302556
2012-01-23T00:44:41 < karlp> and on avr I get a different size.
2012-01-23T00:45:10 < karlp> I know bitfields have all sorts of odd packing rules, but I didn't think it would be so different for M3
2012-01-23T00:45:28 < karlp> are those uint8_t's being turned into uint32s behind my back?
2012-01-23T00:45:51 <+Steffanx> 22, 1 + 2 + 4*5 <= 1+2+ 4*5 is 23 :P
2012-01-23T00:45:59 < karlp> 1 + 1, :|
2012-01-23T00:46:23 < karlp> header + versionCount + 4 * five byte struct.
2012-01-23T00:46:49 < karlp> if they were all 32bit types, I would expect 4 + 4 + 4*(8)
2012-01-23T00:46:55 < karlp> which is 40,
2012-01-23T00:47:01 < karlp> but i'm seeing 36 as the sizeof
2012-01-23T00:48:43 < zyp> 1 + 1 + 2 padding + 4 * (1 + 3 padding + 4) = 36
2012-01-23T00:49:01 < zyp> 32bit values are stored 32-bit aligned
2012-01-23T00:49:26 < karlp> single bytes can go anywhere though?
2012-01-23T00:49:32 <+izua> Steffanx: did you mess with RFM0x modules or RFM1x modules?
2012-01-23T00:49:33 < karlp> what happens to 16bit values?
2012-01-23T00:49:48 < zyp> I'd guess they are aligned to 16-bit
2012-01-23T00:50:06 < karlp> I guess I now have the tools to test that myself anyway
2012-01-23T00:50:08 < karlp> thanks zyp
2012-01-23T00:50:13 <+Steffanx> izua RFM22b
2012-01-23T00:50:24 <+izua> oh
2012-01-23T00:50:27 <+izua> not even close.
2012-01-23T00:50:30 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-23T00:50:34 < zyp> karlp, just compare the addresses of the individual elements
2012-01-23T00:50:41 <+izua> got me some more RFM01/02, old code died in the hdd crash
2012-01-23T00:50:52 <+izua> now i can't figure out how i made the old ones (RFM1x) work
2012-01-23T00:51:14 < karlp> so much for having this code be compatible with the old avr code then :)
2012-01-23T00:51:22 < karlp> I guess I can manually pack it into byte arrays,
2012-01-23T00:51:27 < karlp> but that sounds tedious.
2012-01-23T00:51:32 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-23T00:51:40 <+izua> karlp: 22 sounds like the right value.
2012-01-23T00:51:47 < karlp> anyway, yay, my mrf24j40 radios are sending now.
2012-01-23T00:51:53 < karlp> just hav eto fix up the interrupts.
2012-01-23T00:51:54 <+izua> i've tried several combos and i can't figure out how to reach 36.
2012-01-23T00:51:59 < zyp> karlp, you want it to be 22 bytes?
2012-01-23T00:52:06 <+Steffanx> izua :<zyp> 1 + 1 + 2 padding + 4 * (1 + 3 padding + 4) = 36
2012-01-23T00:52:12 < zyp> try __attribute__((packed))
2012-01-23T00:52:17 < karlp> well, if it was all non-padded, that would be cool, because the existing far side code would just work.
2012-01-23T00:52:35 < karlp> zyp should that go on the typedef, or an instance of the struct?
2012-01-23T00:52:39 < BrainDamage> btw, anyone got hands on those memory lcd from sharp?
2012-01-23T00:52:40 <+Steffanx> That solves it karlp
2012-01-23T00:52:43 < zyp> typedef
2012-01-23T00:52:47 <+izua> oh
2012-01-23T00:52:47 < BrainDamage> they seem pretty cool
2012-01-23T00:52:47 <+Steffanx> That packed attribute
2012-01-23T00:52:51 <+Steffanx> At least it does on os x :P
2012-01-23T00:53:01 <+izua> types < 32 bits are stored on 32 bits?
2012-01-23T00:53:15 < karlp> izua: no, 32bit types are only stored on 32bit boundaries it seems
2012-01-23T00:53:36 < zyp> it's not defined, so the compiler is free to choose
2012-01-23T00:53:37 <+izua> hm, that makes sense
2012-01-23T00:53:46 <+izua> pull them out in a single clock
2012-01-23T00:53:54 < zyp> and 32-bit processors are most efficient doing 32-bit accesses on 32-bit boundaries
2012-01-23T00:53:55 < karlp> warning: 'packed' attribute ignored
2012-01-23T00:54:02 <+Steffanx> Yay
2012-01-23T00:54:05 <+izua> win.
2012-01-23T00:54:08 < zyp> then you're out of luck :)
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2012-01-23T00:55:29 < karlp> nope, oh no, you can't put it between typedef and struct, it has to go between struct and the name
2012-01-23T00:55:33 < karlp> now it works
2012-01-23T00:55:34 < karlp> thanks zyp
2012-01-23T00:55:35 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-23T00:55:36 < karlp> yay
2012-01-23T00:56:47 <+Steffanx> I made my rfm22b modules work with some 'stolen' code. It was meant for Arduino's
2012-01-23T00:56:49 <+Steffanx> @ izua
2012-01-23T00:57:02 <+Steffanx> So I have no idea how to make your rfm1x modules work
2012-01-23T00:57:04 <+izua> did ity work?
2012-01-23T00:57:12 <+izua> i usually have the best luck when using 'stolen' code
2012-01-23T00:57:17 <+Steffanx> Yeah, I ported it from C++ to C though
2012-01-23T00:57:22 < karlp> is there some trick to do tail -f blah | grep | grep ? it just seems to buffer up and output in chunks?
2012-01-23T00:57:23 <+izua> ie, i have to read the whole datasheet and figure out what's wrong with it
2012-01-23T00:57:28 <+Steffanx> I even solved some issues in the code
2012-01-23T00:57:34 <+izua> usually ends up faster if i implement the solution myself ._.
2012-01-23T00:58:05 <+Steffanx> The code was pretty clean
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2012-01-23T01:16:14 < zyp> okay, just who decided to name the bit to turn _on_ the transceiver «PWRDWN»?
2012-01-23T01:17:01 < zyp> I've been «sure, the transceiver is on, because the «power down» bit is not set» all the time
2012-01-23T01:17:47 < Thorn> it's probably /PWRDWN
2012-01-23T01:18:41 < zyp> well, now I finally see usb activity on the scope
2012-01-23T01:18:53 < Thorn> as in, "if(!nPWRDOWN != 0) printf("it's not up\n")"
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2012-01-23T01:22:08 < zippe> zyp: see above inre: Synopsys
2012-01-23T01:22:35 < zippe> What you don't have, and may have trouble getting, is the errata list for the block
2012-01-23T01:23:07 < zippe> I didn't actually look to see which version it is, but you can expect there are plenty
2012-01-23T01:23:18 < zyp> probably
2012-01-23T01:23:23 < zyp> well, stuff seems to work now
2012-01-23T01:23:46 < zippe> zyp: By the way, are you Brian?
2012-01-23T01:24:02 < zyp> no
2012-01-23T01:24:08 < zippe> Hmm, ok.
2012-01-23T01:24:30 < zyp> Brian who?
2012-01-23T01:24:32 < zippe> All of a sudden everyone wants to know about USB on the F4
2012-01-23T01:24:45 < zippe> I don't know; dankers was asking if I'd help some Brian person
2012-01-23T01:25:10 < zyp> ah
2012-01-23T01:25:14 < zippe> Frankly, I'm still trying to work out wtf is up with the PA9 pulldown behaviour
2012-01-23T01:25:21 < zyp> I'm not involved with openpilot
2012-01-23T01:25:42 < zippe> Gotcha; my confusion, sorry
2012-01-23T01:26:11 < zyp> I'm just a weird guy trying to write my own usb stack for fun :p
2012-01-23T01:26:32 < Thorn> for power protection, I need both a polyzen and a TVS, right?
2012-01-23T01:28:30 < zippe> What do you mean "for power protection"?
2012-01-23T01:28:54 < Thorn> protection of my circuit from bad power :)
2012-01-23T01:29:07 < zippe> What definition of "bad power" are you working with?
2012-01-23T01:29:11 < Thorn> overvoltage, reverse polarity, transients
2012-01-23T01:29:22 < zippe> To what limits?
2012-01-23T01:29:32 < zippe> You're not going to survive a lightning strike
2012-01-23T01:29:38 < zippe> So decide what you are trying to protect against
2012-01-23T01:30:02 < zippe> e.g. you can do low-drop reverse protection with a FET
2012-01-23T01:30:29 < zippe> Do the high-side filter for your LDO with a cap that's rated to the LDO's maximum input voltage
2012-01-23T01:30:43 < zippe> And pick one with a high enough rating to handle your overvoltage threat
2012-01-23T01:31:03 < zippe> 35V is a fair compromise
2012-01-23T01:31:28 < zippe> So that's one extra component and you're OK for reverse polarisation and overvoltage
2012-01-23T01:31:52 < Thorn> as in, a low pass filter?
2012-01-23T01:32:38 < Thorn> will that be enough?
2012-01-23T01:33:33 < zippe> Again, it depends on what you're worried about
2012-01-23T01:33:53 < Thorn> well, this particular project is indoor use only
2012-01-23T01:34:10 < Thorn> and not for an industrial environment either
2012-01-23T01:34:22 < zippe> I mean, if you were serious about it, you would have ESD protection on every signal
2012-01-23T01:34:41 < zippe> Then you'd be looking at RFI suppression and generally going overboard on the power supply
2012-01-23T01:35:03 < zippe> As a for-example, go to Olimex's site and look at the power supply on their Arduino/Maple clones
2012-01-23T01:35:07 < Thorn> I'm actually considering optocouplers on inputs
2012-01-23T01:35:43 < zippe> at 100MHz?  That's spendy
2012-01-23T01:36:04 < Thorn> nope, not 100MHz, not for this one
2012-01-23T01:36:51 < Thorn> it's just a device on a rs-485/can bus with discrete inputs & outputs
2012-01-23T01:37:38 < Thorn> powered by 12VDC or so
2012-01-23T01:41:28 < Thorn> (probably more like 6.5...12VDC)
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2012-01-23T01:46:19 < Thorn> that "industrial arduino" hasno i/o protection, not very industrial
2012-01-23T01:51:14 < Thorn> of course maybe it's designed for use with industrial shields...
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2012-01-23T06:03:01 < zippe> flyback: There's a loophole
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2012-01-23T06:05:38 < zippe> Yes, there is.  Reckless self-endangerment.
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2012-01-23T12:52:38 < eruif> the STM32 Discovery board doesn't come with an IDE ?
2012-01-23T12:54:48 < karlp> did you read the docs that came with it?
2012-01-23T12:54:58 < karlp> you can choose demo versions of atollic or keil
2012-01-23T12:55:17 < karlp> or you can use gcc and whatever editor you want.
2012-01-23T13:01:31 < eruif> Saw that. Just assumed ST should have their own stuff.
2012-01-23T13:13:15 < karlp> ... why? they're not really a tools company.
2012-01-23T13:13:26 < karlp> none of the other vendors do either,
2012-01-23T13:13:41 < eruif> Ti does
2012-01-23T13:13:59 < jpa-> usually the IDEs of chip manufacturers suck :)
2012-01-23T13:14:12 < karlp> nxp, fujitsu, toshiba, don't
2012-01-23T13:14:12 < jpa-> haven't used TI's, though, but wasn't it restricted etc?
2012-01-23T13:14:31 < karlp> renesas does
2012-01-23T13:14:43 < eruif> jpa-: the free version is restricted
2012-01-23T13:14:45 < jpa-> microchip does also :P
2012-01-23T13:15:25 < eruif> So which one should I use ? Atollic or Leaflabs ?
2012-01-23T13:15:40 < eruif> or should I install gcc and rock with vim ?
2012-01-23T13:15:54 < eruif> (I'm on Windoze)
2012-01-23T13:16:15 < jpa-> gcc and any editor you prefer :)
2012-01-23T13:16:42 < jpa-> i would use notepad++, some might prefer eclipse
2012-01-23T13:17:00 < eruif> is there a native Windows ARM compiler ?
2012-01-23T13:17:27 < jpa-> there are binary versions of the compiler, e.g. mentor codebench
2012-01-23T13:17:42 < jpa-> * mentor codebench lite (used to be codesourcery g++ lite)
2012-01-23T13:17:50 < eruif> Keil uVision is native windows or does it use gcc internally ?
2012-01-23T13:18:04 < jpa-> why wouldn't gcc be "native windows"?
2012-01-23T13:18:31 < karlp> you should speak to your preferred tools vendor, open up your wallet, and ask for advice.
2012-01-23T13:18:50 < eruif> Sourcery Codebench looks suspiciously like eclipse
2012-01-23T13:18:55 < jpa-> karlp: you are my preferred debugging tool vendor, what should i use? :)
2012-01-23T13:19:08 < eruif> jpa-: is there a native windows gcc ? I thought it ran in cygwin
2012-01-23T13:19:35 < karlp> jpa-: awww shucks, you prefer me? :)
2012-01-23T13:19:38 < karlp> I'm flattered
2012-01-23T13:19:49 < karlp> that will be 1 milllllion dollars
2012-01-23T13:20:06 < jpa-> eruif: i think it may use mingw, but that is just for file IO etc.
2012-01-23T13:20:15 < jpa-> karlp: i only have euros :(
2012-01-23T13:20:21 < karlp> those will do :)
2012-01-23T13:20:54 < karlp> I had a great debugging moment in the shower this morning,
2012-01-23T13:21:16 < karlp> realised that the delay() call I put in to make the spi timing work relied on the systick interrupt
2012-01-23T13:21:19 < jpa-> eruif: i don't think it affects using the compiler much
2012-01-23T13:21:43 < karlp> which I'd made too low priority, so the interrupt handler that needed to use spi went into this delay loop and hung.
2012-01-23T13:21:55 < karlp> should be able to finish the radio tonight, whee
2012-01-23T13:22:17 < jpa-> i should try llvm & clang for arm development some day :P
2012-01-23T13:22:29 < karlp> eruif: if you want to pay, most people seem to be happy enough with crossworks, atollic, keil
2012-01-23T13:22:44 < karlp> if you don't want to pay, you will be spending time working out which tools from where work together,
2012-01-23T13:22:55 < jpa-> karlp: i was expecting for a worm to crawl up from your shower drain
2012-01-23T13:23:10 < karlp> but on windows, mentor provides a binary compiler
2012-01-23T13:23:27 < karlp> for actually programming/debugging, you then have other options again.
2012-01-23T13:23:44 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, the shower wasn't really the important part, more the sleeping on it I guess.
2012-01-23T13:23:45 < eruif> hmm.... debugging.
2012-01-23T13:23:58 < eruif> I will avoid thinking about that hell until I have to.
2012-01-23T13:24:22 < eruif> the ST-Link thing requires you to buy the adaptor right ?
2012-01-23T13:24:26 < karlp> how do people handle 10s of microsecond delays? do you have a define to set the regular operating speed?
2012-01-23T13:24:37 < karlp> eruif: didn't you say you had a discovery board?
2012-01-23T13:24:42 < karlp> those include stlink.
2012-01-23T13:25:12 < eruif> karlp: oh yes, I forgot. that is what the other STM32 chip is about
2012-01-23T13:25:38 < eruif> what goes on the other end of the ST-Link ? I guess I have to download something from st.com ?
2012-01-23T13:25:57 < karlp> you could go back to reading the provided product literature :)
2012-01-23T13:26:14 < jpa-> we have no idea of what goes on windows :)
2012-01-23T13:26:19 < eruif> I got the board last year. I've forgotten everything.
2012-01-23T13:26:24 < karlp> various tools support programming/debugging via stlink.
2012-01-23T13:26:34 < jpa-> on linux, you plug the usb cable into karlp and and then type "target remote localhost:1234" to gdb :)
2012-01-23T13:27:09 < karlp> don't you need extended-remote?
2012-01-23T13:27:11 < eruif> Keil has its own compiler too don't they ?
2012-01-23T13:27:29 < karlp> I don't know, what does keil's product website say?
2012-01-23T13:27:54 < eruif> dunno. But I did a bit of programming with uVision last year. And I remember the .asm is different than gcc's
2012-01-23T13:32:04 < eruif> interesting limitations on the free version. the full version generates ELF binaries. the free one generates something proprietary.
2012-01-23T13:57:23 < eruif> Code Sourcery is a gcc wrapper
2012-01-23T14:10:35 < eroomde> hey. I'm finding i'm having to physically power cycle my target board (discovery f4) and disconnect the usb cable to get the code to run, having loaded the elf from st-link. I'm using karlp's HEAD from last week. Is this something others have experienced and should i try a different branch?
2012-01-23T14:17:00 < eroomde> ls
2012-01-23T14:20:54 < Laurenceb> i use gdb
2012-01-23T14:21:03 < Laurenceb> then you can run from gdb
2012-01-23T14:21:18 < eroomde> yeah same
2012-01-23T14:21:23 < Laurenceb> hmm odd
2012-01-23T14:21:29 < eroomde> so:
2012-01-23T14:21:36 < Laurenceb> maybe something wrong in your startup?
2012-01-23T14:21:41 < eroomde> (gdb) load main.elf
2012-01-23T14:21:49 < eroomde> (gdb) run
2012-01-23T14:21:59 < eroomde> and 'run' doesn't seem to do anything. well, not consistantly
2012-01-23T14:22:00 < Laurenceb> yeah same here
2012-01-23T14:22:07 < Laurenceb> - only it runs correctly :P
2012-01-23T14:22:10 < eroomde> sometimes it seems to work, sometimes not
2012-01-23T14:22:23 < eroomde> is that the karlp build Laurenceb ?
2012-01-23T14:22:25 < Laurenceb> whos startup?
2012-01-23T14:22:26 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-01-23T14:22:43 < eroomde> Laurenceb: the one that came with discovery
2012-01-23T14:22:47 < Laurenceb> im using Randomskks startup
2012-01-23T14:22:52 < eroomde> it startsup completely fine when i just power cycle
2012-01-23T14:22:59 < eroomde> so once it's been loaded and is on its own
2012-01-23T14:23:15 < eroomde> infact i'm now using the chibios startup
2012-01-23T14:23:17 < eroomde> same thing
2012-01-23T14:23:23 < Laurenceb> odd
2012-01-23T14:23:27 < eroomde> indeedsome
2012-01-23T14:23:33 < eroomde> i'll persist with playing around
2012-01-23T14:23:38 < Laurenceb> idh i havent played with it that much
2012-01-23T14:23:47 < Laurenceb> im working on F1 boards
2012-01-23T14:23:55 < Laurenceb> *tbh
2012-01-23T14:24:47 < zyp> runs correctly for me
2012-01-23T14:25:06 < karlp> the F4 board sometimes needs to have reset pressed for me,
2012-01-23T14:25:09 < karlp> not sure what it is,
2012-01-23T14:25:21 < karlp> could be startup0 code, or some f4 stlink reset code.
2012-01-23T14:25:34 < karlp> not really focussing on it much personally.
2012-01-23T14:25:48 < karlp> my code is the same as texane head right now anyway, for the most part.
2012-01-23T14:26:15 < eroomde> ok
2012-01-23T14:26:20 < eroomde> oh well, it's workable for now
2012-01-23T14:26:41 < karlp> I don't really have any projects planned for F4, so it's not something I'm actively working on.
2012-01-23T14:26:43 < eroomde> thanks for all your efforts towards it anyway
2012-01-23T14:26:57 < eroomde> the stuff i'm doing right now could probably be done on any stm32
2012-01-23T14:27:07 < zyp> I wrote my own startup code
2012-01-23T14:27:11 < eroomde> but i've got some number-bashing code in the next project for which the FPU will be a real boon
2012-01-23T14:27:31 < eroomde> zyp: i may well do that soon. it'll be useful just to grok the clock structure
2012-01-23T14:28:01 < karlp> I did too, I didn't like the idea of these ugly asm chunks when cortex m3 claims you don't need any asm for startup
2012-01-23T14:28:04 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/kkstm32_base/tree/master/startup
2012-01-23T14:28:45 < zyp> I don't have any asm in my startup
2012-01-23T14:29:11 < karlp> the current examples in stlink have some code from atollic that needs to be replaced Real Soon Now...
2012-01-23T14:29:32 < karlp> ST distributed it in their examples, but either forgot, or something else, to clean up the licensing on some of the files
2012-01-23T14:29:39 < karlp> but, they were asm based.
2012-01-23T14:36:19 < zyp> I don't think my startup code executes even a single instruction of inline asm before calling main
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2012-01-23T15:34:12 < jpa-> zyp: not even anything like     register void *stack_pointer asm("sp");    ?
2012-01-23T15:34:51 < jpa-> (though that is not strictly necessary if you don't use any bootloader etc.)
2012-01-23T15:44:02 < karlp> mine has a nugget of asm for setting stackpointer if you're running from ram
2012-01-23T15:44:18 < karlp> but I haven't really experimented with running from ram much.
2012-01-23T15:44:33 < karlp> it's wayyy faster to program though :)
2012-01-23T15:51:32 < eroomde> does anyone use eclipse for their dev? I'm after a slightly moreuser-friendly debug experience. I was wondering if eclipse might provide that
2012-01-23T15:52:10 < eroomde> but right now i can't get it to respect my system path. it is adamant that it can't find the compiler (d'oh)
2012-01-23T15:53:56 < eruif> I think Sourcery Codebench is gcc + eclipse
2012-01-23T15:59:42  * Laurenceb uses gedit + terminal
2012-01-23T16:00:18 < karlp> I use netbeans, but I haven't amanged to get it's gdbserver support to recognise the cross gdb yet.
2012-01-23T16:00:26 < karlp> so it's terminal for gdb,
2012-01-23T16:08:15 < Laurenceb> hardcore people use emacs
2012-01-23T16:12:49 < zyp> no, vim (*throws rocks*)
2012-01-23T16:13:21 < BrainDamage> to hell with those editor wars （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2012-01-23T16:18:20 < Laurenceb> gedit works.. kind of
2012-01-23T16:18:25 < Laurenceb> good enough for me
2012-01-23T16:18:44 < BrainDamage> same here, actually I have a plugin that runs llvm on the code on the fly
2012-01-23T16:18:48 < Laurenceb> itd be nice to remove the tabs and just use tree view
2012-01-23T16:18:52 < BrainDamage> and hightlights some syntax errors
2012-01-23T16:19:09 < BrainDamage> check the plugins page
2012-01-23T16:19:19 < Laurenceb> ok, yeah
2012-01-23T16:19:20 < BrainDamage> iirc there's one to hide the tab bar
2012-01-23T16:19:25 < Laurenceb> cool thanks
2012-01-23T16:19:47 < BrainDamage> I even have git integration
2012-01-23T16:19:50 < BrainDamage> trough rabbitvcs
2012-01-23T16:19:58 < BrainDamage> the only thing I lack is gdb integration
2012-01-23T16:20:54 < eroomde> yeah
2012-01-23T16:21:10 < eroomde> i'm completely happy with vim as my editor for life
2012-01-23T16:21:22 < eroomde> except for the lack of gdb integration
2012-01-23T16:22:32 < zyp> debugger in the editor is kind of pointless IMO
2012-01-23T16:24:00 < zyp> stepping through source compiled with optimizations doesn't make much sense, and I think compiling without optimizations to solve that is a bad habit
2012-01-23T16:29:15 < eroomde> zyp: valid yep
2012-01-23T16:29:57 < eroomde> i'll have a play with ddd
2012-01-23T16:30:33 < BrainDamage> while your arguing is valid, there are not so many bugs that different optimizations can trigger
2012-01-23T16:30:44 < BrainDamage> provided there's no compiler mistakes
2012-01-23T16:30:52 < BrainDamage> mostly rounding errors or race conditions
2012-01-23T16:31:05 < Laurenceb> while your arguing is valid, you could just stfu and do some work
2012-01-23T16:31:08 < Laurenceb> FTFY
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2012-01-23T16:45:27 < karlp> BrainDamage: are you using llvm on stm32?
2012-01-23T16:46:01 < BrainDamage> no, just as static code analyzer on gedit
2012-01-23T16:46:03 < zyp> just llvm for syntax checking and highlighting I guess
2012-01-23T16:46:28 < BrainDamage> I also compiled few programs for x86 with it
2012-01-23T16:46:40 < BrainDamage> I'd have to check for arm targets
2012-01-23T16:46:42 < zyp> last time I checked, cortex-m3 support in llvm were too immature to be useful
2012-01-23T16:47:55 < zyp> cortex-a support should be good, I think the iphone toolchain is based on llvm
2012-01-23T16:48:40 < karlp> hehe: fail_unless(blehu = 0xaabbccdd11223344ull)
2012-01-23T16:48:47 < karlp> so much for that test helping to find my signed screwups.
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--- Log opened Mon Jan 23 18:22:34 2012
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2012-01-23T19:08:07  * Steffanx needs some advice
2012-01-23T19:08:24 <+Steffanx> I'd like to make a i/o board, with spi, i2c etc. which i can use over USB.
2012-01-23T19:09:16 <+Steffanx> So I can write drivers on my pc without the need to flash the target all the time
2012-01-23T19:09:24 <+Steffanx> I go an ft2232 or stm32 or .. ?
2012-01-23T19:12:05 < karlp> you mean, like bus pirate?
2012-01-23T19:12:12 < karlp> or something else?
2012-01-23T19:12:40 <+Steffanx> Oh, why i didn't think about that before
2012-01-23T19:12:47 <+Steffanx> I actually own a bus pirate :P
2012-01-23T19:18:03 <+Steffanx> Hmm, not exactly what i was looking for
2012-01-23T19:21:33 < zyp> then what?
2012-01-23T19:21:34 < zyp> :p
2012-01-23T19:21:53 <+Steffanx> I'd like to have i2c, spi and some i/o at the same time
2012-01-23T19:22:19 <+Steffanx> With the bp i'm limited to a few pins
2012-01-23T19:24:34 <+Steffanx> I'll go for a bp improved edition :P
2012-01-23T19:29:21 < eruif> the bp has more pins doesn't it ? just not broken out to the connector ?
2012-01-23T19:30:19 <+Steffanx> It has a few icsp pins
2012-01-23T19:30:52 < eruif> I"m thinking of building a bus pirate on my own.
2012-01-23T19:31:01 < eruif> more fun than buying one
2012-01-23T19:31:15 < karlp> what sort of things are you really thinking of doing that need both i2c and spi or something all going at once on the same usb device?
2012-01-23T19:31:51 <+Steffanx> It at least needs SPI and I2C at the same time karlp .. with a usb interface
2012-01-23T19:32:24 < karlp> that's what I said :)
2012-01-23T19:32:34 < karlp> what are you doing to _do_ with them both at the same time?
2012-01-23T19:32:44 <+Steffanx> Don't know yet :P
2012-01-23T19:32:58 < karlp> then respectuflly, I suggest that you don't need it :)
2012-01-23T19:33:06 <+Steffanx> No I do know it
2012-01-23T19:33:11 <+Steffanx> Connect a i2c accelerometer and SPI RF module for example
2012-01-23T19:33:24 < karlp> there's a couple of avr on a usb stick and pic on a usb stick that are much smaller than bus pirate
2012-01-23T19:33:34 < karlp> with pcb edge connectors even
2012-01-23T19:33:45 <+Steffanx> Write some software on my pc which talks to that i2c/spi/whatever interface
2012-01-23T19:34:01 <+Steffanx> Just because i don't want to flash the final target all the time
2012-01-23T19:35:09 <+Steffanx> Maybe i'll just design something myself. An board with an STM32 with some headers from most peripherals
2012-01-23T19:35:37 <+Steffanx> And some nice protocol so i can talk to it
2012-01-23T19:35:49 < karlp> moah protocols!
2012-01-23T19:35:58 < karlp> :)
2012-01-23T19:36:05 <+Steffanx> uh?
2012-01-23T19:36:32 < karlp> when in doubt, come up with a new protocol
2012-01-23T19:36:42 < karlp> don't mind me.
2012-01-23T19:36:48 < karlp> I've had too many meetings and not enough work today
2012-01-23T19:36:48 <+Steffanx> It's not just het protocol.. it's a whole new board
2012-01-23T19:36:56 <+Steffanx> *the
2012-01-23T19:37:27 <+Steffanx> With the buspirate you have to switch between the different peripherals all time
2012-01-23T19:37:39 <+Steffanx> It's possible ofcourse.. but.....
2012-01-23T19:39:10 <+Steffanx> Fake interrupts would be nice too, not sure how to implement it, but we'll see
2012-01-23T19:41:57 <+Steffanx> What kind of work do you do karlp ?
2012-01-23T19:50:13 -!- TheLegace_ [~TheLegace@130.63.110.25] has joined ##stm32
2012-01-23T19:50:31 < TheLegace_> hi is anyone around?
2012-01-23T19:50:31 < karlp> www.remake-electric.com.
2012-01-23T19:50:34 < karlp> a few of us.
2012-01-23T19:50:56 < TheLegace_> uhm im having some issues with my stm32f4discovery board
2012-01-23T19:51:09  * karlp covers his ears
2012-01-23T19:51:14 < TheLegace_> i just uploaded some PWM code for PD12-15 pins and now when i connect it's not being detected unless i hold the reset button
2012-01-23T19:51:16 < karlp> press reset lots.
2012-01-23T19:51:23 < TheLegace_> and even though i upload code it doesnt do anything the board just stays the same
2012-01-23T19:51:31 < karlp> do other programs upload ok?
2012-01-23T19:52:06 < TheLegace_> well if i hold the reset button down the computer reckognizes the board and i can upload the program
2012-01-23T19:52:09 < karlp> ie, can you use any examples from: https://github.com/esden/libopencm3/tree/master/examples/stm32/f4/stm32f4-discovery
2012-01-23T19:52:21 < TheLegace_> but it doesnt change anything i tried putting the discovery code
2012-01-23T19:52:24 < karlp> which way are you programming?
2012-01-23T19:52:32 < TheLegace_> stlink
2012-01-23T19:52:54 < karlp> and unless you're holding reset down, the board doesn't even show up in lsusb?
2012-01-23T19:52:59 < TheLegace_> karlp, yup
2012-01-23T19:53:09  * karlp is impressed
2012-01-23T19:53:19 < TheLegace_> i just used the makefile from texane/stlink project
2012-01-23T19:53:22 < TheLegace_> but i made my own project
2012-01-23T19:53:24 < karlp> you've managed to do something to confuse the hell out of the stlink part then.
2012-01-23T19:53:30 < TheLegace_> the code worked fine for the default ports
2012-01-23T19:53:43 < TheLegace_> but when i changed the ports to D12-15 it fucked up
2012-01-23T19:53:56 < TheLegace_> i might have also called the rcc enable twice on the same port
2012-01-23T19:54:02 < TheLegace_> hopefully that wasnt the problem
2012-01-23T19:54:22 < TheLegace_> this was after unsuccessfully using libopencm3 to try PWM library
2012-01-23T19:54:33 < TheLegace_> so i just switched to the stm32 code to see if everything would work properly
2012-01-23T19:55:46 < TheLegace_> ok so i confused stlink?
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2012-01-23T21:26:42 < TheLegace_> hi i was here earlier about my stm32f4discovery
2012-01-23T21:27:31 < TheLegace_> it seems some code is running and i am unable to overwrite it
2012-01-23T21:28:09 < TheLegace_> the board isnt detected unless i hold the reset button down
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2012-01-23T21:43:48 < karlp> anyone know which sheet to look at to see whether the DWT is implemented?
2012-01-23T21:43:55 < karlp> is it on the F1 value line?
2012-01-23T21:44:47 < karlp> hmm, reference manual mentions it
2012-01-23T21:44:51 < karlp> I'm going to assume they all have it
2012-01-23T21:48:15 <+Steffanx> I don't even know what DWT means :P
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2012-01-23T22:02:08 < karlp> it's an arm block, apparently it has the clock cycle counter.
2012-01-23T22:11:23 <+dekar> Steffanx, something like this plus SPI? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/Screen%20Shot%202012-01-23%20at%209.09.53%20PM.png
2012-01-23T22:12:07 <+Steffanx> No.. not really
2012-01-23T22:12:24 <+Steffanx> I just a bridge between the actual hw and my pc
2012-01-23T22:12:30 < Laurenceb_> epic man
2012-01-23T22:12:37 <+Steffanx> So i can write the software on my pc
2012-01-23T22:13:11 <+dekar> yeah well that's what I did, the software is just to test all the library functions
2012-01-23T22:13:20 <+Steffanx> And still say SPI.write(..)  or spi_write whatever you want
2012-01-23T22:13:37 <+Steffanx> Ah, then it;s a yes
2012-01-23T22:14:10 <+dekar> I'll ask my boss whether I can give you the USB plus I2C part then
2012-01-23T22:14:40 <+Steffanx> I also want SPI/Standard IO, but i can implement that myself :P
2012-01-23T22:16:02 <+dekar> I have standard IO, I mean I have an API to set all pins (high/lo/tristate/read) as well as the adc
2012-01-23T22:16:19 <+dekar> my i2c is like this: ConvenientReadI2C(char data[], uint16_t deviceAddress, uint8_t startAddress, int chunkCount, int chunkSize, uint16_t delay, bool use10BitAddress = false);
2012-01-23T22:17:01 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2012-01-23T22:17:45 <+dekar> oh btw, doesn't versaloon support stuff like that already?
2012-01-23T22:17:59 <+dekar> you could grab the fw if GPLv3 is fine with you
2012-01-23T22:18:10 <+dekar> I think it has SPI and I2C
2012-01-23T22:18:31 <+dekar> they call it USB_to_XXX where XXX is the specific protocol
2012-01-23T22:19:12 <+Steffanx> It's a hobby bobby project, so gplv3 is ok-ish
2012-01-23T22:23:00 < karlp> huh, code with "blah / 1000000" compiles ok, with blah /1e6 gives undefined reference to `__aeabi_ui2d' and _ddiv and _d2uiz
2012-01-23T22:29:55 <+Steffanx> lol
2012-01-23T22:33:18 < karlp> seems 1e6 is a the same as 1000000.0
2012-01-23T22:33:51 < karlp> I guess my makefiles still need some work to enable any sort of floating point then anyway.
2012-01-23T22:35:54 <+dekar> I don't think I even tried using float so far XD
2012-01-23T22:38:01 <+Steffanx> 1e6ul is valid karlp ?
2012-01-23T22:44:10 < karlp> cflags with -Os works, with -O2 works, -O1 works, -O0 gives "undefined reference to memcpy" ?
2012-01-23T22:44:41 < karlp> steffanx: 1e6ul gives: error: invalid suffix "ul" on floating constant
2012-01-23T22:45:34 <+Steffanx> Ya
2012-01-23T22:45:35 <+Steffanx> y
2012-01-23T22:46:42 <+Steffanx> btw im not goign to use the versaloon fw.. that fw is ugly
2012-01-23T22:47:20 <+Steffanx> @ dekar
2012-01-23T22:48:04 < karlp> bah, my inspirational moment in the shower wasn't the final nail.
2012-01-23T22:48:14 < karlp> it doesn't hang up anymore, but I don't get any _new_ interrupts.
2012-01-23T22:59:17 < karlp> god, the colour scheme github uses for comments is barely legible
2012-01-23T22:59:23 < karlp> comments are _useful_ mofos
2012-01-23T23:01:42 <+Steffanx> Sure?
2012-01-23T23:01:47 <+Steffanx> I almost never comment my code
2012-01-23T23:02:48 <+dekar> I do - dunno why actually
2012-01-23T23:03:05 <+dekar> It's not like others work on my code
2012-01-23T23:03:58 <+dekar> We did a review on it once, but since no one else at the company knew C? I don't think it made that much sense lol
2012-01-23T23:04:53 <+dekar> those modern attacks on C code are really horrible - like string oriented programming
2012-01-23T23:06:27 <+Steffanx> String orientated?!
2012-01-23T23:08:22 <+dekar> Steffanx, yeah well they somehow fixed return oriented programming which attacked data execution prevention
2012-01-23T23:08:38 <+dekar> then they had address layout randomization
2012-01-23T23:08:46 <+Steffanx> dekar .. you should deleted your g+ account
2012-01-23T23:08:51 <+Steffanx> It's buggy as shit
2012-01-23T23:08:59 <+dekar> how can my g+ be buggy?
2012-01-23T23:09:13 <+Steffanx> Crappy programmers?
2012-01-23T23:09:24 <+dekar> and at some point they had canaries to guard the stack
2012-01-23T23:09:44 <+dekar> but somehow string oriented programming beats all of that
2012-01-23T23:09:46 <+Steffanx> You can block someone.. so they can't read your comments/posts
2012-01-23T23:09:49 <+Steffanx> BUT
2012-01-23T23:10:14 <+dekar> it's funny how they try to patch the C language at hardware level and fail
2012-01-23T23:10:18 < karlp> just assume the code will be broken, and limit what it can do, and make sure you can turn it off.
2012-01-23T23:10:24 <+Steffanx> G+ automatically pushes new comments to your browsers, incl. those 'hidden' ones
2012-01-23T23:10:29 <+Steffanx> When you reload the comment is gone
2012-01-23T23:11:10 <+dekar> lol
2012-01-23T23:11:28 <+dekar> sounds incredibly buggy -.-"
2012-01-23T23:11:38 <+dekar> I barely use it, but I was thinking about deleting it
2012-01-23T23:11:39 <+Steffanx> Also, when an post contains an image.. you can't read the comments either
2012-01-23T23:11:45 <+Steffanx> UNTIL you click on the image
2012-01-23T23:11:52 <+Steffanx> Then you can read them all
2012-01-23T23:12:56 <+Steffanx> "Delete profile and Google+ features	Delete profile and remove associated Google+ features" that's what i was looking for
2012-01-23T23:21:38 <+Steffanx> Done
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2012-01-24T02:29:01 < karlp> bleh, stupid RF.  so much for finishing tonight.
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2012-01-24T04:12:36 < TheLegace> hi could someone help me with my stm32f4discovery board
2012-01-24T04:12:47 < TheLegace> right now its not being detected unless i pull BOOT0 up
2012-01-24T04:13:02 < TheLegace> and there seems to be something wrong with one of the output LEDs/Pins
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2012-01-24T04:31:55 < TheLegace> flyback, i dont think so because it works perfectly fine when BOOT0 is pulled up
2012-01-24T04:32:03 < TheLegace> its just connected to the USB through STlink
2012-01-24T04:33:57 < TheLegace> hmm this all started happening right after me uploading some PWM code
2012-01-24T04:34:27 < TheLegace> hmm i dont think its anything physical unless there was a flaw in the board
2012-01-24T04:34:33 < TheLegace> but i havent messed with anything physically
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2012-01-24T07:01:08 < zippe> TheLegace: If the chip works when BOOT0 is high, then your code is b0rked
2012-01-24T07:01:22 < zippe> TheLegace: Just erase the chip while it's in that mode, or flash some known-good code
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2012-01-24T07:03:39 < TheLegace> zippe, ive tried that a gazillion times
2012-01-24T07:03:42 < TheLegace> but its not changing anything
2012-01-24T07:03:48 < TheLegace> ive erased every sector/page/chip
2012-01-24T07:03:52 < TheLegace> like so many times
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2012-01-24T07:50:25 < zippe> Did you check the security bits?
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2012-01-24T19:16:40 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-01-24T19:16:41 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-01-24.html
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2012-01-24T19:36:36  * jpa- plans a crazy DMA sequence
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2012-01-24T19:38:59 <+Steffanx> Also plan for free days jpa-
2012-01-24T19:39:03 <+Steffanx> *for = some
2012-01-24T19:39:12 <+Steffanx> You'll need them
2012-01-24T19:39:29 < jpa-> i have one tomorrow :)
2012-01-24T19:39:43 < jpa-> 1) timers trigger dma channels 1-4   2) ch 1 transfers value to output port to get lowest 16 bits of data from external chip   3) ch 2 transfers the data to memory  4) ch 3 transfers another data to output port   5) ch 4 transfers the other 16 bits to memory
2012-01-24T19:40:39 <+Steffanx> What for?
2012-01-24T19:40:55 < jpa-> the free day? because i forgot to sign up on courses :D
2012-01-24T19:41:26 <+Steffanx> I mean the DMA sequence
2012-01-24T19:41:43 <+Steffanx> And how on earth can you forget to sign up?!
2012-01-24T19:42:41 <+Steffanx> :n kotisivu <= that's really finnish for 'homepage' jpa- ?
2012-01-24T19:42:50 < jpa-> the dma sequence is to read data from external chip, which likes to give it in two 16-bit parts (actually it's an FPGA, but i don't have the synthesis tools)
2012-01-24T19:43:11 < jpa-> Steffanx: :n means like 's in english, and kotisivu is homepage
2012-01-24T19:44:16 <+Steffanx> Microsoft shows that in the title on a Dutch page..
2012-01-24T19:46:25 <+Steffanx> Anyway, you're going to use a standard port or the fsmc?
2012-01-24T19:46:59 < jpa-> fsmc probably
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2012-01-24T19:47:07 <+Steffanx> Morning izua
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2012-01-24T21:17:26 < jpa-> where can i find information on the memory wait states?
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2012-01-24T21:25:14 < karlp> koti ==~ kofi/kofa, old icelandic word for house, sivu ==~ siðu, icelandic for site...
2012-01-24T21:25:46 < karlp> I'm not used to seeing even sort of understandable words in finnish though...
2012-01-24T21:27:54 < jpa-> karlp: mutta kaikki suomenkieliset sanathan ovat täysin ymmärrettäviä
2012-01-24T21:36:40 < Laurenceb_> what the...
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2012-01-24T21:43:06 < karlp> jpa-: that's better :) that's mroe like finnish :)
2012-01-24T21:43:47 < jpa-> karlp: so when will you come visit here? :)
2012-01-24T21:44:50 < karlp> I've already been a couple of times.
2012-01-24T21:44:56 < karlp> not for very long though.
2012-01-24T21:45:11 < karlp> in transit to st petersburg
2012-01-24T21:45:34 <+Steffanx> jpa-  .. finnish has all those nice long words :D
2012-01-24T21:46:05 < jpa-> Steffanx: those are short words
2012-01-24T21:46:17 <+Steffanx> Long compared to english and dutch
2012-01-24T21:46:25 < jpa-> only in writing
2012-01-24T21:46:55 < jpa-> many english vowels match two vowels in finnish
2012-01-24T21:47:19 <+Steffanx> In speech Finnish is even worse
2012-01-24T21:48:35 <+Steffanx> aka abracadabra
2012-01-24T21:49:46 < karlp> greenlandic has long words.
2012-01-24T21:50:01 < karlp> they're actually single words, just with the spaces taken out.
2012-01-24T21:50:13 < karlp> so foreigners get to play, "guess where the syllables start/end"
2012-01-24T21:51:27 < karlp> so, more on topic, say I want to send out debug stuff.
2012-01-24T21:51:38 < karlp> I've been using a ftdi cable on the usart, which works ok.
2012-01-24T21:51:51 < karlp> what other options do I have?
2012-01-24T21:51:54 < jpa-> i want you to implement a memory buffer that gdbserver will read and spit to screen :)
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2012-01-24T21:52:11 < karlp> you mean, swv?
2012-01-24T21:52:25 <+Steffanx> Home made swv probably
2012-01-24T21:52:28 < karlp> if someone gets some usb traces like the ones we got to start with stlink2 I'll give it a go.
2012-01-24T21:52:34 < karlp> the stlink2 has a third endpoint,
2012-01-24T21:52:43 < karlp> I just don't even know how to write to the swv from the code yet anyway
2012-01-24T21:52:50 <+Steffanx> I don't have a stlink2 :P
2012-01-24T21:52:54 < karlp> really?
2012-01-24T21:52:59 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-24T21:52:59 < karlp> I never would have known :)
2012-01-24T21:53:06 < jpa-> i haven't even heard about swv :)
2012-01-24T21:53:26 < karlp> swv/swo is a way of dumping out data via the debug port,
2012-01-24T21:53:26 <+Steffanx> karlp .. you still didn't downloaded a trial of IAR workbench?
2012-01-24T21:53:42 < karlp> I don't know enough about how to capture the usb straffic
2012-01-24T21:53:47 < karlp> someone else provided the packet traces.
2012-01-24T21:54:02 < karlp> I'm still trying to work out what's wrong with my radio.
2012-01-24T21:54:26 < karlp> I'd really like to get at least _one_ thing that's personally useful working before I go back to too much hackerising
2012-01-24T21:54:44 < karlp> and if I wait long enough, maybe uwe will do it :)
2012-01-24T21:55:09 <+Steffanx> Download usbsnoop, the easies app to work with ever karlp
2012-01-24T21:55:18 < jpa-> i've given up on the "personally useful things" already, i'll never get anything done :D
2012-01-24T21:55:20 <+Steffanx> Windows only, but iar is too, so that doesn't matter
2012-01-24T21:56:25 < karlp> personally useful is, "I hav ea project, and a bunch of parts, and I'd rather do it with an stm32 than an avr"
2012-01-24T21:56:44 < karlp> and I want to get all the pieces working on the stm32 first
2012-01-24T21:56:57 <+Steffanx> How's to port of your app going karlp ?
2012-01-24T21:57:06 <+Steffanx> *the
2012-01-24T21:57:10 < karlp> which one?
2012-01-24T21:57:21 <+Steffanx> Don't know, the one you had issues with a few days ago/last week
2012-01-24T21:57:28 < karlp> porting my mrf24j40 library from avr to stm32 is what I'm doing on and off for weeks now.
2012-01-24T21:57:31 < karlp> making progress
2012-01-24T21:57:33 < karlp> not there yet.
2012-01-24T21:57:48 < karlp> didn't expect it to be so much of a big deal.
2012-01-24T21:58:03 < BrainDamage> work or hobby?
2012-01-24T21:59:16 < karlp> this is at home.
2012-01-24T21:59:24 < karlp> work is linux and avr
2012-01-24T21:59:26 < karlp> no wireless
2012-01-24T21:59:52 < karlp> home is adding a breathalyzer that reports readings to the beer fridge.
2012-01-24T22:00:02 < karlp> maybe with rfid for tagging drinkers.
2012-01-24T22:00:03 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-24T22:00:05 < BrainDamage> lol
2012-01-24T22:00:21 < BrainDamage> to automatically tell you when to refill? :p
2012-01-24T22:00:22 <+Steffanx> You need that for yourself karlp ?
2012-01-24T22:00:31 < karlp> just more toys :)
2012-01-24T22:00:49 < karlp> the fridge already reports it's temp and compressor status.
2012-01-24T22:00:55 < karlp> I won on free day remember?
2012-01-24T22:01:02 < karlp> had to buy stuff that was dubiously useful :)
2012-01-24T22:01:06 <+Steffanx> :p
2012-01-24T22:01:27 < BrainDamage> thanks for reminding me I didn't win
2012-01-24T22:01:30 < karlp> :P
2012-01-24T22:01:43 <+Steffanx> Same here
2012-01-24T22:01:43 < jpa-> me neither :(
2012-01-24T22:03:22 < karlp> where's your svn repo again jpa?
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2012-01-24T22:04:43 < jpa-> karlp: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/   but you need password for the top level :)
2012-01-24T22:05:01 <+Steffanx> test test
2012-01-24T22:05:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: can't see you
2012-01-24T22:05:28 <+Steffanx> No me neither
2012-01-24T22:05:42 <+Steffanx> I meant the username + password for your svn
2012-01-24T22:05:45 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-24T22:07:22 < karlp> !zlog
2012-01-24T22:07:25 < karlp> zlog
2012-01-24T22:07:26 < zlog> karlp: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-01-24.html
2012-01-24T22:07:42 < jpa-> karlp: if you want something specific i can tell the url :)
2012-01-24T22:08:00 < karlp> no, was just going to look at some more examples.
2012-01-24T22:08:04 <+Steffanx> Hmm, why is tom's bot still here, but he isn't :S
2012-01-24T22:08:06 < karlp> check what I might be missing in some places.
2012-01-24T22:08:07 <+Steffanx> He's always online
2012-01-24T22:10:40 < jpa-> karlp: so https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/  probably :P
2012-01-24T22:11:45 <+Steffanx> I like your programming style jpa- .. it's pretty clean
2012-01-24T22:12:05 < jpa-> i try to make it clean :)
2012-01-24T22:12:30 <+Steffanx> hmm, you didn't write that mmc lib :P
2012-01-24T22:12:38 <+Steffanx> but your protocolbuffer was nice too
2012-01-24T22:13:23 < jpa-> it's getting much less clean when i try to add new features :/
2012-01-24T22:24:42 < karlp> what gpio pupd settings do you guys use for external interrupt lines?
2012-01-24T22:27:38 < jpa-> heh, took a count of the code in the repo that i have written myself http://paste.dy.fi/yXD/plain
2012-01-24T22:31:05 < karlp> ohloh?
2012-01-24T22:31:16 < karlp> is that a command line tool, or do you have to upload it all somewher eelse?
2012-01-24T22:31:46 < jpa-> ohcount
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2012-01-24T23:51:53 < karlp> oh, so my old code doesn't seem to work on avr anymore.
2012-01-24T23:52:00 < karlp> I wonder what I'm forgetting somewhere...
--- Day changed Wed Jan 25 2012
2012-01-25T00:00:08 < karlp> ok, wiring problem. good.
2012-01-25T00:00:22 < karlp> now then, back to working out what the hell's wrong with the stm version.
2012-01-25T00:03:49 <+Steffanx> That reminds me of my experience with rf modules
2012-01-25T00:04:38 < karlp> on the stm so far, it sends, the far side correctly receives, but there's something wrong with the autoacking.
2012-01-25T00:04:49 < karlp> which is probably actually still a spi timing problem.
2012-01-25T00:05:01 <+Steffanx> I even replaced a module to be sure it wasn't the module
2012-01-25T00:05:08 < karlp> seeing as I had to add some brutally ugly busy waits to get it to work.
2012-01-25T00:05:29 <+Steffanx> It turned out i used two different synchronization sequences … ooops
2012-01-25T00:07:20 < karlp> it seems to be not the spi clock, but the timing of the chip select going up and down on the stm.
2012-01-25T00:08:17 < karlp> anyone got any tips on getting printf to work with newlib, summon-arm-toolchain?
2012-01-25T00:08:53 < BrainDamage> printf? where would it print to?
2012-01-25T00:09:40 < karlp> the uart
2012-01-25T00:09:58 < karlp> and the ITM port
2012-01-25T00:10:25 < karlp> and mostly for when I'm too lasy to use gdb
2012-01-25T00:11:20 < BrainDamage> mmm, never checked that
2012-01-25T00:11:28 < BrainDamage> I assume scanf does the equivalent for input?
2012-01-25T00:12:04 < karlp> yeah, there's a few methods I need to provide, I guess I should just go back to some other references.
2012-01-25T00:17:26 < TheLegace> hi could someone explain me this alternate function concept of the stm32
2012-01-25T00:18:11 < zyp> F1 or F2/F4?
2012-01-25T00:19:31 < zyp> in either case, the pins can be either normal GPIOs, or they might have an alternate function enabled
2012-01-25T00:19:58 < zyp> alternate functions are connections to other peripherals, like uart tx/rx, timers for pwm out and so on
2012-01-25T00:20:49 < TheLegace> so i can assign another pin to the peripheral
2012-01-25T00:20:57 < TheLegace> even though it might be assigned in PDF for one pin?
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2012-01-25T00:21:07 < TheLegace> i have the f4
2012-01-25T00:21:14 < TheLegace> is it necessary when i just want to enable it on
2012-01-25T00:21:38 < zyp> if you just want to use it as a normal GPIO you don't have to care about the AF stuff
2012-01-25T00:21:38 < karlp> hey sweet, I got gdbserver talking to netbeans properly now.
2012-01-25T00:21:46 < karlp> looks like whatever commands it was missing are implemented now.
2012-01-25T00:22:09 < TheLegace> zyp, meaning the peripheral thats already mapped to the IO?
2012-01-25T00:22:59 < zyp> GPIO (as in General Purpose Input/Output) are simple pins that you manually either read as an input or turn on/off
2012-01-25T00:23:47 < zyp> if you want to use the pin as anything else, you have to set it to alternate function and select the alternate function you want
2012-01-25T00:24:00 < TheLegace> ah so if i want UART then i have to enable
2012-01-25T00:24:05 < TheLegace> the alternate function clock for example
2012-01-25T00:24:12 < zyp> there is a nice table in the datasheet showing all alternate functions on all pins
2012-01-25T00:24:24 < zyp> table 6 in the datasheet
2012-01-25T00:24:42 < TheLegace> zyp are u using stm32 lib ?
2012-01-25T00:24:56 < zyp> so if you want to use, say, PA2/PA3 for USART2 you have to set it to AF7
2012-01-25T00:25:08 < TheLegace> whats the AF7 for?
2012-01-25T00:25:20 < TheLegace> where does that come from i mean
2012-01-25T00:25:23 < zyp> see table 6 in the datasheet
2012-01-25T00:25:57 < zyp> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATASHEET/DM00037051.pdf <- this datasheet
2012-01-25T00:26:34 < TheLegace> OOOH
2012-01-25T00:26:41 < TheLegace> so its to select between the functions
2012-01-25T00:26:42 < TheLegace> on the PIN
2012-01-25T00:26:43 < zyp> each pin have 16 possible AFs, and they vary for each pin
2012-01-25T00:26:47 < TheLegace> now it makes sense
2012-01-25T00:26:49 < zyp> exactly
2012-01-25T00:26:59 < TheLegace> i hate to keep asking these things but i cant find any definitive guide that covers these things
2012-01-25T00:28:02 < zyp> good thing you're not asking about the F1, because the AF stuff in the F1 is not as tidy as the F2/F4 :p
2012-01-25T00:28:43 < TheLegace> okie good
2012-01-25T00:28:46 < TheLegace> well thats good to know
2012-01-25T00:28:53 < TheLegace> since the f4 are amazingly expensive
2012-01-25T00:29:02 < TheLegace> i was thinking f2 possibly for my production board
2012-01-25T00:29:40 < TheLegace> although the f2s dont look
2012-01-25T00:29:42 < TheLegace> much cheaper
2012-01-25T00:30:50 < BrainDamage> f4 are high performance
2012-01-25T00:31:12 < BrainDamage> instead of starting from top of the line, start from bottom, if you have economic constraints
2012-01-25T00:31:17 < TheLegace> guess ill just bute the bullet
2012-01-25T00:31:18 < zyp> F4 is pretty much F2 with M4F core instead of M3
2012-01-25T00:31:20 < TheLegace> bite
2012-01-25T00:31:27 < BrainDamage> then rise until reqs are met
2012-01-25T00:31:32 < BrainDamage> maybe add some tollerance
2012-01-25T00:31:52 < TheLegace> its not a big deal though
2012-01-25T00:31:59 < TheLegace> its just im a little short on funds atm
2012-01-25T00:32:08 < TheLegace> but its worth it since i want to do floating point as well
2012-01-25T00:32:20 < TheLegace> by the way has anyone here used the libopencm3?
2012-01-25T00:54:44 < karlp> you can use floating point with the fpu in the f4,
2012-01-25T00:54:49 < karlp> just depends how fast you want it
2012-01-25T00:55:54 < TheLegace> just wondering what polarity means
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2012-01-25T02:36:43 < wiza69> Hey karl I have some printf example code
2012-01-25T02:36:55 < wiza69> to printf to the USB vcomm or the uaart
2012-01-25T02:39:44 < wiza69> https://github.com/jnosky/discoveryF4
2012-01-25T02:40:22 < wiza69> There you will find also the stubs you need for newlib
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2012-01-25T02:58:13 < karlp> jnosky: that has a printf that is lgpl,
2012-01-25T02:58:24 < karlp> I thought you just had some stubs to provide and newlib had the printf
2012-01-25T02:59:44 < karlp> with just https://github.com/jnosky/discoveryF4/blob/master/libstm/Utilities/syscalls.c should that be enough?
2012-01-25T03:02:56 < jnosky> Ya that will be enuf for the newlib printf
2012-01-25T03:03:11 < jnosky> But that ones bloated compared to the printf I include
2012-01-25T03:03:51 < karlp> bloat schmoat :)
2012-01-25T03:04:10 < jnosky> If you look at my make file youl see that it can support either one
2012-01-25T03:05:19 < jnosky> just eliminate the printf.c, and uncomment syscalls.c
2012-01-25T03:05:26 < karlp> thanks for the pointers, I'll have a better look.
2012-01-25T03:05:29 < karlp> bed time now though.
2012-01-25T03:05:48 < jnosky> With the included printf you dont need newlib at all :)
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2012-01-25T08:47:36 < zippe1> I'm having a very bad, angry day with gdb
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2012-01-25T08:56:31 < zippe> Something is getting regnum -1
2012-01-25T09:05:42 < zippe> But apparently only on the M4
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2012-01-25T11:15:36 < zippe> Hm, nope
2012-01-25T11:15:43 < zippe> mov sp, r1 blows up gdb
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2012-01-25T13:35:30 < Thorn> gdb absolutely hates any malformed stacks
2012-01-25T13:40:15 < eruif> is there anyone who loves a corrupt stack ?
2012-01-25T13:41:25 < Thorn> a debugger that goes crazy with a corrupt stack is like a doctor that can't stand critical patients
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2012-01-25T22:10:01 <+Steffanx> What kind of endpoint is that 3rd endpoint the stlink v2 karlp ?
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2012-01-25T23:21:06 < karlp> Steffanx: just another bulk in.
2012-01-25T23:22:24 <+Steffanx> No class?
2012-01-25T23:22:44 < karlp> class is on the interface, not the endpoint,
2012-01-25T23:22:51 < karlp> and the interface is "vendor specififc"
2012-01-25T23:23:00 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-01-25T23:23:15 < karlp> http://pastebay.com/305387
2012-01-25T23:23:24 < karlp> (lsusb with the endpoint descriptors)
2012-01-25T23:23:39 <+Steffanx> I shouldve know that..  :P
2012-01-25T23:23:43 < karlp> v1 is basically much the same, just with only two endpoints.
2012-01-25T23:23:53 < karlp> but you probably already knew that :)
2012-01-25T23:24:07 <+Steffanx> It seems most ide's support swv + stlink/v2 now
2012-01-25T23:24:20 < karlp> yeah, just needs more time I guess :)
2012-01-25T23:24:26 < karlp> someone will get it hooked up.
2012-01-25T23:26:31 <+Steffanx> I was about to order one from watterot, but they only ship with UPS nowadays
2012-01-25T23:26:47 <+Steffanx> Which is ~40% of the stm32f4discovery price
2012-01-25T23:26:49 < karlp> what, an stlink/2 dongle?
2012-01-25T23:26:55 < karlp> or the f4/32L board?
2012-01-25T23:27:03 <+Steffanx> stm32f4
2012-01-25T23:27:09 < karlp> I thought you were someone in mainland europe?
2012-01-25T23:27:20 <+Steffanx> The Netherlands
2012-01-25T23:27:22 < karlp> doesn't farnell or mouser have reasonable shipping?
2012-01-25T23:27:39 <+Steffanx> watterot = Germany
2012-01-25T23:28:22 <+Steffanx> Farnell has a minimum order price/amount
2012-01-25T23:28:42 <+Steffanx> mouser too .. otherwise it's probably more than 10 euro
2012-01-25T23:28:45 < zyp> then order some more toys
2012-01-25T23:28:51 < zyp> :D
2012-01-25T23:29:07 < karlp> I think mouser is free shipping over 70 euro?
2012-01-25T23:29:21 <+Steffanx> i do that too often zyp
2012-01-25T23:29:34 < karlp> why do you want the v2 anyway? we got the v1 working in osx for you :)
2012-01-25T23:29:50 <+Steffanx> stm32f4 .. :)
2012-01-25T23:29:57 < karlp> good answer :)
2012-01-25T23:30:04 <+Steffanx> we got the v1 working in osx for you :) <= we? Me :P
2012-01-25T23:30:20 < BrainDamage> my friend helped a lot
2012-01-25T23:30:24 < karlp> well, you and peabody got the "ignore the driver shit"
2012-01-25T23:30:24 < BrainDamage> so don't say my
2012-01-25T23:30:26 < BrainDamage> me*
2012-01-25T23:30:33 < karlp> I removed the sg-utils requirements
2012-01-25T23:30:41 <+Steffanx> Nah, I've got my own version BrainDamage
2012-01-25T23:30:44 < zyp> I did not help at all!
2012-01-25T23:30:58 < karlp> noöone dide
2012-01-25T23:31:03 < BrainDamage> yes, after seeing it as example!
2012-01-25T23:31:05 < karlp> it came down the mountain on stone tablets
2012-01-25T23:31:10 < karlp> giving it to us all
2012-01-25T23:31:12 <+Steffanx> Yes and know BrainDamage
2012-01-25T23:31:20 <+Steffanx> I had most of it before your friend started with it :P
2012-01-25T23:31:27 <+Steffanx> Just made one little mistake
2012-01-25T23:31:27 < karlp> the "internet" got it working.
2012-01-25T23:31:31 <+Steffanx> Yeah :P
2012-01-25T23:31:38 < zyp> who cares? don't make it a pissing contest
2012-01-25T23:31:44 < BrainDamage> it is!
2012-01-25T23:31:47 < BrainDamage> （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2012-01-25T23:31:50 < zippe1> Anyone here run into the problem where gdb's prolog parser blows up if you touch the sp in the first 16 or so instructions of a hand-rolled assembly function?
2012-01-25T23:31:51 <+Steffanx> zyp im the best
2012-01-25T23:31:54 < karlp> I just wanted to tease steffan about osx :)
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2012-01-25T23:32:03 < zyp> Steffanx, well, I'm the worst!
2012-01-25T23:32:06 <+Steffanx> YEAH
2012-01-25T23:32:12 <+Steffanx> No, i'm worser
2012-01-25T23:32:27 <+Steffanx> My english is worse too
2012-01-25T23:32:28 < zippe> Oh god. 4chan have discovered the stm32
2012-01-25T23:32:42 <+Steffanx> Sure zippe ?
2012-01-25T23:32:50 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2012-01-25T23:32:53 <@Steffanx> Where are they?
2012-01-25T23:33:06 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2012-01-25T23:34:01 < zippe> So going back to my actual question 8)
2012-01-25T23:34:03 <+Steffanx> We are not allowed to have some 'fun' once in a while?
2012-01-25T23:34:21 < karlp> hand rolled assembly that modifies the stack?
2012-01-25T23:34:39 < karlp> I use cpus with lots of ram, and proper c-compilers so I don't need to ever do that shit ever again.
2012-01-25T23:34:47 < karlp> so, no, sorry :)
2012-01-25T23:35:08 < karlp> last time I deliberately modified the stack was on a hc11.
2012-01-25T23:35:18 < karlp> and I don't really miss that.
2012-01-25T23:36:27 < karlp> however, I would have thought that enough people used gdb, so I'm a litlte surprised to hear that it explodes
2012-01-25T23:36:41 < zyp> I crashed gdb earlier today
2012-01-25T23:36:54 <+Steffanx> That seems to be very easy
2012-01-25T23:37:17 < zippe> This is some third-party code that's trying to DTRT by stacking more registers below the automatic frame
2012-01-25T23:37:28 < karlp> DTRT?
2012-01-25T23:38:23 < zippe> It copies either PSP or MSP into r1, stacks the extra registers there, then in the on-MSP case copies r1 back to MSP
2012-01-25T23:38:26 < zippe> "do the right thing"
2012-01-25T23:39:00 < zippe> I think the code is actually wrong
2012-01-25T23:39:18 < zippe> But I've been digging into the tools to try to work out why gdb gets upset
2012-01-25T23:39:36 < zippe> The prolog parser freaks out if you write to the stack pointer without giving it any clues about where the frame is
2012-01-25T23:40:01 < zippe> It returns to the calling layer with −1 as the register holding the frame, and then everything goes to pieces
2012-01-25T23:42:14 < zippe> Anyway, I think the answer is "no", so, no worries. 8)
2012-01-25T23:42:35 < karlp> no! let's get distracted about something less useful first!
2012-01-25T23:43:33 < zyp> you guys are distracting me.
2012-01-25T23:43:40  * karlp dances in the aisles
--- Day changed Thu Jan 26 2012
2012-01-26T00:09:20 <+Steffanx> zyp has important things to do?
2012-01-26T00:09:53 < zyp> nah, now I'm playing mahjong
2012-01-26T00:10:00 <+Steffanx> lol
2012-01-26T00:10:10 < BrainDamage> using uC?
2012-01-26T00:10:15 <+Steffanx> Some consider that as important
2012-01-26T00:11:35 < zyp> BrainDamage, no, tenhou.net
2012-01-26T00:12:01 < BrainDamage> damn
2012-01-26T00:12:08 < BrainDamage> I should try it
2012-01-26T00:12:11 < BrainDamage> get all my spare ic
2012-01-26T00:12:26 < BrainDamage> and do mahjong with them
2012-01-26T00:12:29 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2012-01-26T00:14:32 < zyp> this is not the solitaire type of mahjong you're thinking about :p
2012-01-26T00:15:10 < zyp> this is four player riichi mahjong, more similar in gameplay to poker and stuff like that
2012-01-26T00:16:08 <+Steffanx> How good is your Japanese zyp ?
2012-01-26T00:16:16 < zyp> it's so-so
2012-01-26T00:16:26 <+Steffanx> I've no idea where to click
2012-01-26T00:16:48 <+Steffanx> Ah a game started
2012-01-26T00:18:21 < zyp> now you lose :p
2012-01-26T00:18:27 <+Steffanx> but now i have no idea what i'm doing
2012-01-26T00:19:34 <+Steffanx> How can this be mahjong zyp ?
2012-01-26T00:19:44 < zyp> it's played with mahjong tiles
2012-01-26T00:20:03 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but what's the idea?
2012-01-26T00:20:22 < zyp> the «mahjong» most people know is not really mahjong, except that it's also played with mahjong tiles :p
2012-01-26T00:20:23 <+Steffanx> I just click on random 'bricks'.. other plays do that too
2012-01-26T00:20:42 < zyp> the idea is to win by completing a hand
2012-01-26T00:21:01 <+Steffanx> by clicking on random 'bricks'?
2012-01-26T00:21:16 < zyp> by discarding tiles you don't need
2012-01-26T00:21:57 <+Steffanx> Whatever :P
2012-01-26T00:22:04 <+Steffanx> I've no idea which i don't need
2012-01-26T00:34:40 < zyp> that's why you lose
2012-01-26T00:35:28 <+Steffanx> I know
2012-01-26T00:36:20 <+Steffanx> It doesn't really seems to be a "let's play a game for 5 minutes"-game :(
2012-01-26T00:38:39 < zyp> nah, a game consists of either four or eight rounds, depending on which button you pressed :p
2012-01-26T00:39:18 < zyp> or more if someone gets any extra rounds, or less if anybody runs out of points
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2012-01-26T17:33:25 <+Steffanx> btw about the test board i talked about a few days ago. It would be even nicer to have an stlink/v2 with swv etc. so i can talk to the register directly
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2012-01-26T17:40:35 < karlp> well, the stlink2 firmware isn't available,
2012-01-26T17:40:48 <+Steffanx> I know, it was just an idea :P
2012-01-26T17:40:59 < karlp> you can put the swd pins on of course, following the schematics for the discovery boards
2012-01-26T17:41:15 < karlp> or you can put an ft2232 like an embedded busblaster or jtagkey or something
2012-01-26T17:41:25 <+Steffanx> I know :P
2012-01-26T17:41:53 <+Steffanx> I prefer swd
2012-01-26T17:42:55 <+Steffanx> As it's only 2 pins
2012-01-26T17:45:34 <+Steffanx> + that itm/swv pin
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2012-01-27T10:09:28 < Dreamon> what is ELFEDIT utitliy ?? what it does .....?? How to use that utility?
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2012-01-27T16:21:37 <+dekar> Steffanx, I noticed my htc g1 was throttled (3g data) but my htc g2 wasn't - I first thought they might do throttling by IMEI
2012-01-27T16:21:55 <+dekar> then I flashed some different radio firmware on my G2 and was throttled as well
2012-01-27T16:22:03 <+dekar> downgraded again and not throttled anymore
2012-01-27T16:22:18 <+Steffanx> And it's not just the fw?
2012-01-27T16:22:32 <+dekar> it's the firmware running in the radio module I think
2012-01-27T16:22:40 <+Steffanx> How nice
2012-01-27T16:22:54 <+dekar> that allows me to disable provider throttling
2012-01-27T16:23:02 <+dekar> I now feel like reverse engineering it
2012-01-27T16:23:05 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2012-01-27T16:23:14 <+dekar> I wanna know how it does that
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2012-01-27T17:52:51 <+dekar> Steffanx, I don't think it was the radio, I think it randomly worked since I had the SIM in another phone while downgrading. Thus it's probably bound to the IMEI and they can only blacklist one at a time.
2012-01-27T17:53:18 < ratatata> nu
2012-01-27T17:58:25 <+Steffanx> Nee, niet nu
2012-01-27T17:58:30 <+Steffanx> Hi ratatata :P
2012-01-27T18:01:15 < ratatata> hi
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2012-01-27T19:40:31 <+Steffanx> How's it going with the snow izua ?
2012-01-27T19:40:49 <+izua> horrible, i hate snow
2012-01-27T19:40:59 <+Steffanx> I love it and we have nothing :(
2012-01-27T19:41:10 <+izua> i'm i already have a fever and can't stop coughing, etc, and the thermal insulation is fail
2012-01-27T19:41:20 <+izua> haha
2012-01-27T19:41:22 <+izua> i can mail you some
2012-01-27T19:42:42 <+izua> on the plus side, it drove the rioters home
2012-01-27T19:43:24 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-27T19:44:46 <+izua> but as the wiki states (holy shit, it has a big wiki page already), they're still ongoing
2012-01-27T19:45:22 <+Steffanx> I think that's actually a good thing :P
2012-01-27T19:49:11 <+izua> not sure they can do anything without the gendarmerie's/army's backup
2012-01-27T19:50:27 < jpa-> is the latency of DMA transfers specified anywhere?
2012-01-27T19:51:17 < jpa-> i understand that it has to arbitrate, but what is the minimum?
2012-01-27T19:51:54 <+izua> a colleague of mine works for the gendarmerie, as a techie, anyway, long story short, the gendarmerie pitched the football hooligans into the peaceful protestsers, and almost every time they provoke them, live pepperspraycop, etc xD
2012-01-27T20:06:21 < Laurenceb_> where are you? Greece?
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2012-01-27T20:07:34 <+Steffanx> Snow in greece?
2012-01-27T20:07:46 < Laurenceb_> in the mountains yes
2012-01-27T20:08:16 < Laurenceb_> uk is boring :( not even any riots
2012-01-27T20:08:20 < Laurenceb_> well hardly ever
2012-01-27T20:08:40 <+Steffanx> In London...
2012-01-27T20:09:41 < Laurenceb_> well yeah
2012-01-27T20:12:16 < Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/26/ipad_fleshlight_design/
2012-01-27T20:12:18 < Laurenceb_> nsfw
2012-01-27T20:12:37 <+Steffanx> hmpf
2012-01-27T20:12:51 <+Steffanx> Actually pretty sily
2012-01-27T20:13:04 < Laurenceb_> the comments are funny
2012-01-27T20:13:45 <+Steffanx> I don't read comments.. that's a waste of time :)
2012-01-27T20:14:05 < Laurenceb_> "I'm just a programmer, what's that pink thing meant to be?"
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2012-01-27T20:14:53 <+Steffanx> Bad joke :P
2012-01-27T20:15:42 < Laurenceb_> "clearly what one should see on the screen is a Sad Mac, followed by the error code for "Illegal Input", then "Buffer Overflow" ;)"
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2012-01-27T20:24:14 <+izua> Laurenceb: romania
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2012-01-27T22:37:59 < jpa-> my DMA is writing all over my memory
2012-01-27T22:38:02 < jpa-> :(
2012-01-27T22:39:36 < jpa-> most of the time it writes properly but sometimes it overwrites my variables with whatever it is transferring at the time
2012-01-27T22:40:21 <+Steffanx> lol?
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2012-01-27T22:42:55 < jpa-> yes i have tried, but it didn't help
2012-01-27T22:43:20 <+Steffanx> pebkac jpa-
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2012-01-27T22:44:39 < jpa-> well i made the bug while sitting on the floor
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2012-01-27T22:45:55 <+Steffanx> Sure, .. i don't believe that
2012-01-27T22:46:06 <+Steffanx> In Finland it's cold, so the floor is cold too
2012-01-27T22:46:30 < jpa-> not on the highest floor
2012-01-27T22:46:45 < jpa-> here the floor is the only thing that is above zero
2012-01-27T22:48:44 <+Steffanx> They didn't tell me that when i was in Finland ~1.5 years ago
2012-01-27T22:51:01 <+dekar> what's wrong with you people, I am not even heating my room
2012-01-27T22:52:10 <+Steffanx> You are a weird german
2012-01-27T22:52:15 <+Steffanx> And probably a fat ass :p
2012-01-27T22:52:43 <+dekar> :D
2012-01-27T22:53:35 <+Steffanx> This is you isn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScA7PhDJPJE
2012-01-27T22:53:38 <+dekar> I just think our houses are much better since the allies bombed all the crappy ones in ww2 and now we only have epically insulated ones :)
2012-01-27T22:54:09 <+Steffanx> Many houses here are from after the woII too :p
2012-01-27T22:54:30 <+Steffanx> yankie
2012-01-27T22:56:06 <+izua> that kid is pretty epic
2012-01-27T22:56:46 <+izua> also it's cold as fuck here too
2012-01-27T22:57:02 <+Steffanx> How many snow?
2012-01-27T22:57:03 <+Steffanx> 1m?
2012-01-27T22:57:06 <+izua> currently running public heating which is crappy at best, and an electric radiator and i barely get up to 20 deg
2012-01-27T22:57:21 <+dekar> ICH WILL UNREAL TOURNAMENT SPIELEN!
2012-01-27T22:57:34 <+izua> nah, it ain't a lot, probably 100-200mm at best
2012-01-27T22:57:35 <+Steffanx> 20 .. I HATE it when it's above 18 or 19
2012-01-27T22:57:46 <+izua> me too
2012-01-27T22:58:09 <+dekar> yeah me also
2012-01-27T22:58:12 <+izua> but that means that if i read 20 near the radiators, it's probably colder elsewhere
2012-01-27T22:58:18 <+izua> also both of you are fatasses xD
2012-01-27T22:58:24 <+Steffanx> No way
2012-01-27T22:58:44 <+Steffanx> You are this darko isn't it izua ? http://www.last.fm/user/izua
2012-01-27T22:59:29 <+izua> oooh, stalker!
2012-01-27T22:59:37 <+izua> but yeah.
2012-01-27T22:59:47 <+Steffanx> Google knows it all
2012-01-27T22:59:50 <+izua> in my defense, it's the only photo i have of myself, and i was completely wasted when taken.
2012-01-27T23:00:03 <+Steffanx> Suuure
2012-01-27T23:00:37 <+izua> fine, i admit, i do glam photoshoots
2012-01-27T23:01:00 <+Steffanx> Hmm, I should get some good documentation about mesh networking
2012-01-27T23:01:01 <+izua> but i still hate bone freezing temperatures
2012-01-27T23:01:39 <+Steffanx> wireless mesh networking that is
2012-01-27T23:02:32 <+izua> hiding from sopa?
2012-01-27T23:02:32 <+Steffanx> "There are more than 70 competing schemes for routing packets across mesh networks" Yeah.. that should do it
2012-01-27T23:02:59 <+izua> anonymous launched a project once
2012-01-27T23:03:03 <+Steffanx> No, i'm meshing(:P) around with some nRF24LE+ modules
2012-01-27T23:03:05 <+izua> where they wanted to design a small repeater
2012-01-27T23:03:19 <+Steffanx> I meant nrf24l01+
2012-01-27T23:03:21 <+izua> so people could have a wireless mesh net
2012-01-27T23:03:25 <+izua> ooooh, nordic
2012-01-27T23:03:30 <+izua> i always wanted ot get my hands on one of those
2012-01-27T23:03:37 <+Steffanx> They are cheap ass
2012-01-27T23:03:51 <+izua> how much supporting hardware do they need?
2012-01-27T23:04:16 <+Steffanx> A uc with spi
2012-01-27T23:04:39 <+Steffanx> I think i paid about ~2.80 euro for a single module
2012-01-27T23:04:54 <+Steffanx> It's a pre-made module...
2012-01-27T23:05:20 <+izua> neat
2012-01-27T23:05:26 <+izua> did you get a piar to work?
2012-01-27T23:05:40 <+Steffanx> I'm not that far yet
2012-01-27T23:05:55 <+Steffanx> It doesnt have that many registers, so it should be easy
2012-01-27T23:06:15 <+Steffanx> I'm lazy, so i tried to write some code without the actual module :P
2012-01-27T23:06:39 <+Steffanx> *try
2012-01-27T23:08:03 <+Steffanx> They look very similar to these modules izua : http://www.ebay.nl/itm/NRF24L01-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-2-4GHz-Arduino-X2-/320689282284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaa921cec
2012-01-27T23:08:32 <+izua> oh look arduino
2012-01-27T23:08:35 <+izua> everything is arduino nowadays!
2012-01-27T23:08:59 <+izua> neat though
2012-01-27T23:09:30 <+Steffanx> No it's not arduino, they just mention arduino :)
2012-01-27T23:09:37 < Laurenceb_> http://www.stm32circle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=122
2012-01-27T23:09:39 <+Steffanx> Arduino is hot
2012-01-27T23:19:17 <+izua> Laurenceb: neat part on the filtering
2012-01-27T23:19:27  * izua wishes to know dsp voodoo
2012-01-27T23:19:52 <+izua> like those guys from native instruments, who can make any guitar pumped through linein to sound like a $1000 rig with a marshall
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2012-01-27T23:34:56 < jpa-> surprise: writing past a buffer may overwrite memory
2012-01-27T23:35:24 < jpa-> and turns out that actually i wrote the bug while sitting in a chair; so Steffanx was right
2012-01-27T23:37:48 < jpa-> surprise 2: 0x0F is not the same as 0xFF
2012-01-27T23:53:04 <+Steffanx> Ha jpa-
2012-01-27T23:58:34 < jpa-> but my dma is too slow
--- Day changed Sat Jan 28 2012
2012-01-28T00:00:18 <+Steffanx> When flyback ?
2012-01-28T00:00:56 <+Steffanx> Why they add a 50mb sample when the movie itself is only 500mb ?!
2012-01-28T00:14:12 <+dekar_> Steffanx, haha, why did you download it?
2012-01-28T00:14:25 <+dekar_> quality must suck hard -.-
2012-01-28T00:15:17 <+Steffanx> 720p
2012-01-28T00:15:34 <+Steffanx> it's not actually a movie
2012-01-28T00:15:41 <+Steffanx> It's The big bang theory :P
2012-01-28T00:18:21 <+izua> how far into the new season?
2012-01-28T00:19:40 <+Steffanx> e14 izua
2012-01-28T00:22:58 <+Steffanx> Great episode about Apple's Siri :)
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2012-01-28T14:17:17 < jpa-> what's the deal with stm32f10x.h having the FSMC definitions differently than the datasheet?
2012-01-28T14:18:46 < karlp> f10xyy vs f100xx?
2012-01-28T14:23:33 <+Steffanx> I go for my standard answer jpa-
2012-01-28T14:23:46 <+Steffanx> Unless you really sit on the floor right now
2012-01-28T14:24:19 < jpa-> karlp: i've checked a few
2012-01-28T14:24:40 < jpa-> in particular, the FSMC->BTR4 (or FSMC_Bank4->BTR) register is none of the files i have found
2012-01-28T14:25:08 < jpa-> the processor is stm32f103vct6
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2012-01-28T14:56:23 <+Steffanx> Found it jpa- ?
2012-01-28T14:57:55 < Laurenceb_> does -O3 make much difference to runtime relative to -Os
2012-01-28T14:58:05 < Laurenceb_> for code with lots of math functions
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2012-01-28T15:11:25 <+Steffanx> How they did it anyway jpa- ? I don't see a BTR1-3 either. I only see BTCR
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2012-01-28T15:18:22 <+Steffanx> Pretty silly all the definitions of FSMC_BTRx_..  .. They're all the same, except the x can be 1-4
2012-01-28T15:20:43 <+Steffanx> Trial and error Laurenceb_ ?
2012-01-28T15:20:58 <+Steffanx> I think 03 should be the fastest ..
2012-01-28T15:21:23 < Laurenceb_> yeah, i dont know enough about how ti works
2012-01-28T15:21:37 < Laurenceb_> does floating point just link to library code?
2012-01-28T15:24:33 < Laurenceb_>   b894:	f7ff fffe 	bl	0 <__aeabi_fadd>
2012-01-28T15:24:38 < Laurenceb_> hmm thatll be a yes
2012-01-28T15:24:58 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-28T15:25:49 < Laurenceb_> so its from codesourcery
2012-01-28T15:25:56 < Laurenceb_> presumably hand optimised asm
2012-01-28T15:27:20 < Laurenceb_> so yeah my code with -O3 looks like lots of floating point functions with registers used to store the variables as much as possible
2012-01-28T15:29:46 < Laurenceb_> theres little difference with -Os, it seems to be using ram more
2012-01-28T15:30:10 < Laurenceb_> might be slightly faster i guess
2012-01-28T15:30:37 < Laurenceb_> i only need a few %
2012-01-28T15:31:54 < Laurenceb_> it seems to be using less complex register shuffling
2012-01-28T15:32:24 < Laurenceb_> does sram run at f_cpu?
2012-01-28T15:32:32 < Laurenceb_> or are there wait states?
2012-01-28T16:07:46 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2012-01-28T16:07:55 < Laurenceb_> can -O3 ever produce slower code?
2012-01-28T16:15:56 < Laurenceb_> my inline kalman filter code has more register shifting going on with O3 than Os
2012-01-28T16:17:19 < Laurenceb_> O3 sucks :P
2012-01-28T16:17:38 <+Steffanx> Maybe GCC things that's faster
2012-01-28T16:18:06 < Laurenceb_> it doesnt seem to be very processor aware?
2012-01-28T16:18:20 < Laurenceb_> i think itll be slower on stm32
2012-01-28T16:18:46 < Laurenceb_> if it was on a processor with slow ram it might be improved
2012-01-28T16:19:35 < Laurenceb_> 14% more code with O3, if i account for floating point function calls
2012-01-28T16:20:45 <+Steffanx> More code != slower :P
2012-01-28T16:21:55 < Laurenceb_> it is in my case.. i think
2012-01-28T16:22:03 < Laurenceb_> its just register shifts
2012-01-28T16:22:10 < Laurenceb_> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/1597/compiling-gnu-linux-with-o3-optimization
2012-01-28T16:22:14 < Laurenceb_> interesting
2012-01-28T16:24:01 <+Steffanx> So go for O2 or Os
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2012-01-28T16:58:36 < Laurenceb_> O2 looks very similar to Os
2012-01-28T16:59:31 < zyp> -Os is -O2 without size-increasing optimizations
2012-01-28T17:03:24 <+Steffanx> Why O3 is even there :S
2012-01-28T17:05:38 < Laurenceb_> to me it looks like in my case the size increasing "optimizations" actually decrease performance on stm32
2012-01-28T17:08:59 <+Steffanx> I think i always use os
2012-01-28T17:25:32 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-01-28T17:25:48 < Laurenceb_> looks like the best choice
2012-01-28T17:29:06 < Laurenceb_> so annoying - my kalman filter is running at 125Hz, but with about 0.01% cpu spare
2012-01-28T17:29:31 <+Steffanx> You kalman filter is also very weird/large :P
2012-01-28T17:29:37 < Laurenceb_> heh
2012-01-28T17:29:44 < jpa-> -Os was buggy once, though i think it was fixed sometime :)
2012-01-28T17:30:04 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: try fixed point math :)
2012-01-28T17:30:11 < Laurenceb_> ive had to slow down to 111.11hz now - its setup for integer milliseconds
2012-01-28T17:30:12 <+Steffanx> Fixed your problem yet jpa- ?
2012-01-28T17:30:17 < Laurenceb_> 9ms as opposed to 8
2012-01-28T17:30:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: nope, i went out walking
2012-01-28T17:30:37 < Laurenceb_> with 8ms runtime i can read all my sensors with each iteration
2012-01-28T17:30:48 < Laurenceb_> unfortunately thats why its too slow :(
2012-01-28T17:31:17 < Laurenceb_> if i could find a way to get a few % speedup.. but its already very well optimised
2012-01-28T17:31:46 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/fZW/plain   fixed point vs. float
2012-01-28T17:32:22 < jpa-> actually rather http://code.google.com/p/libfixmath/wiki/Benchmarks
2012-01-28T17:33:05 < Laurenceb_> ooh thanks
2012-01-28T17:33:30 <+Steffanx> Whoa, you made it quite a bit faster
2012-01-28T17:35:09 < jpa-> for avr yeah, not that much on cortex-m3
2012-01-28T17:35:22 < Laurenceb_> theres no way avr is that slow
2012-01-28T17:35:36 < jpa-> well doing 32-bit math on 8-bit processor is slow
2012-01-28T17:35:43 < Laurenceb_> must be scewing something up on the multiply
2012-01-28T17:36:00 < Laurenceb_> ive benchmarked it ~120clk for multiply
2012-01-28T17:36:03 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: i haven't coded my kalman filter yet, but this should have all the code necessary to write one https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/libfixmath/libfixmatrix/fixmatrix.h
2012-01-28T17:36:23 < Laurenceb_> kalman with fixed point is really hard
2012-01-28T17:36:39 < Laurenceb_> as the variables change so much
2012-01-28T17:36:46 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: the issue on multiply is that for fixed point multiply you actually need 32*32->64bit multiply :/
2012-01-28T17:36:53 < Laurenceb_> im using floating point kalman from openpilot
2012-01-28T17:37:08 < Laurenceb_>  float      466      1682     2066
2012-01-28T17:37:10 < jpa-> what do you mean by "variables change so much"?
2012-01-28T17:37:13 < Laurenceb_> ^i dont believe that
2012-01-28T17:37:33 < Laurenceb_> you can have covariance going from 1e-4 to 1e-1 and things
2012-01-28T17:37:45 < Laurenceb_> you have a lot of dynamic range that needs to be captured
2012-01-28T17:38:04 < Laurenceb_> im not saying it impossible, just a massive pita to get all the scalings right
2012-01-28T17:38:15 < jpa-> hmm, may be :)
2012-01-28T17:38:28 < Laurenceb_> im using openpilot code - floating point
2012-01-28T17:38:33 < jpa-> (though keeping the covariance in decomposed form is smart anyway)
2012-01-28T17:38:44 < jpa-> yeah i have seen the code you are using, it is ugly :D
2012-01-28T17:38:48 < jpa-> fast, but ugly
2012-01-28T17:38:59 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: in which direction don't you believe that?
2012-01-28T17:39:20 < Laurenceb_> i dont belive that avr is that slow
2012-01-28T17:39:30 < Laurenceb_> ive benchmarked much faster on atmega168
2012-01-28T17:39:33 < Laurenceb_> for multiply
2012-01-28T17:39:41 < Laurenceb_> the other instructions yes are slow
2012-01-28T17:39:52 < Laurenceb_> actually, atmega128 is an older core
2012-01-28T17:39:55 < jpa-> for float multiply? how fast have you got?
2012-01-28T17:39:55 < Laurenceb_> so maybe
2012-01-28T17:39:59 < Laurenceb_> 120clks
2012-01-28T17:40:31 < jpa-> but yeah, those benchmarks are done with simulator; should be cycle-accurate but i don't actually own any AVR processors
2012-01-28T17:40:32 < Laurenceb_> i think its due to the core revision actually - atmega168 is faster
2012-01-28T17:40:45 < Laurenceb_> it has hardware multiply
2012-01-28T17:40:53 < jpa-> atmega128 has hardware multiply also
2012-01-28T17:40:58 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-01-28T17:41:06  * Laurenceb_ checks avr benchmarks
2012-01-28T17:41:14 < jpa-> but 120 clks for float multiply on avr sounds really fast
2012-01-28T17:41:22 < Laurenceb_> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/benchmarks.html
2012-01-28T17:41:33 < Laurenceb_> __mulsf3 (1.234, 5.678) 	375 	138
2012-01-28T17:41:55 < jpa-> hmm, surprising
2012-01-28T17:43:09 -!- eruif is now known as awesome
2012-01-28T17:43:09 < jpa-> i wonder why my results are so different
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2012-01-28T17:44:39 <+Steffanx> Those modifications you made.. that's just standard stuff jpa- ?
2012-01-28T17:45:20 < jpa-> Steffanx: not quite :)
2012-01-28T17:46:19 < jpa-> i'm particularly proud of the double-turn sqrt (in order to avoid 64 bit operations) http://code.google.com/p/libfixmath/source/browse/trunk/libfixmath/fix16_sqrt.c
2012-01-28T17:46:20 <+Steffanx> All your 'invention'?
2012-01-28T17:46:58 < jpa-> well the algorithms are just standard stuff, mainly i just coded them smartly
2012-01-28T17:47:42 < jpa-> (the GCC's own floating point sqrt on avr is very very smart, but i didn't want to go into assembler coding algorithms for each platform)
2012-01-28T17:47:47 <+Steffanx> Note that for negative numbers we return -sqrt(-inValue). :D
2012-01-28T17:48:27 <+Steffanx> The guy who wrote those fp stuff was in #avr ages ago iirc
2012-01-28T17:48:43 < Laurenceb_> geckosenator
2012-01-28T17:48:59 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-01-28T17:49:01 < jpa-> :o geckosenator wrote that?
2012-01-28T17:49:50 <+Steffanx> Not sure if it's part of GCC/avr-libc/whatever .. but the did improve it
2012-01-28T17:50:18 < Laurenceb_> eric weddington wrote some of it
2012-01-28T17:50:27 < Laurenceb_> hes very high up in atmel now :P
2012-01-28T17:51:54 <+Steffanx> You are that long around in #avr you even know geckosenator?
2012-01-28T17:53:21 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-01-28T17:53:29 < Laurenceb_> 2008-09 i used to live there
2012-01-28T17:53:36 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-28T17:53:41 < Laurenceb_> when i was supposed to be doing my degree :P
2012-01-28T17:55:12 <+Steffanx> I think I joined #avr exactly 4 years, 5 weeks, 0 days, 01:08:10 ago  :P
2012-01-28T17:56:18 < jpa-> hmm, atmega168 doesn't have enough flash for my test program (it has a huge static table for all the correct answers) :P
2012-01-28T17:56:31 <+Steffanx> Get a 328
2012-01-28T17:56:33 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-28T17:57:47 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: do you know any good reference where i can see the avr core revisions?
2012-01-28T17:58:36 < Laurenceb_> sorry, just that page i linked
2012-01-28T17:59:15 <+Steffanx> uh?
2012-01-28T17:59:34 < jpa-> well that doesn't quite tell what processor is "avr2" and what is "avr4"
2012-01-28T18:00:01 < Laurenceb_> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/using_tools.html
2012-01-28T18:00:03 <+Steffanx> avr2 - avr4 is instruction set stuff?
2012-01-28T18:00:04 < Laurenceb_> there
2012-01-28T18:00:16 <+Steffanx> Ah yes
2012-01-28T18:01:08 <+Steffanx> Those 6 pins attinies are nice
2012-01-28T18:01:30 < jpa-> well looks like atmega128 is avr5, so should be fine
2012-01-28T18:01:49 < jpa-> i wonder why i'm getting 10x slower execution times than the avr-libc benchmarks
2012-01-28T18:02:05 <+Steffanx> GCC being stupid?
2012-01-28T18:02:34 <+Steffanx> I see you also removed the thumb2 instructions from that lib
2012-01-28T18:02:45 <+Steffanx> I used that lib for my sonic anemometer..
2012-01-28T18:02:51 < Laurenceb_> maybe the simulator is wrong
2012-01-28T18:02:55 < jpa-> GCC does the thumb2 stuff automatically nowadays
2012-01-28T18:03:08 < jpa-> (it produces the exact same code)
2012-01-28T18:03:11 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: may be
2012-01-28T18:03:19 < jpa-> i should buy an arduino sometime :P
2012-01-28T18:03:30 <+Steffanx> Noooooo
2012-01-28T18:03:40 < Laurenceb_> maybe its just simulating a generic core
2012-01-28T18:03:40 < jpa-> pic -> stm32 -> arduino  i'm getting better with these microcontroller things!
2012-01-28T18:03:50 <+Steffanx> Don't go BACK in your development process
2012-01-28T18:04:07 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: nah, gcc generates the AVR5 instructions anyway
2012-01-28T18:05:15 <+Steffanx> GCC isn't that smart
2012-01-28T18:05:42 < jpa-> Steffanx: but the avr-libc benchmark is with avr-gcc also
2012-01-28T18:05:52 < jpa-> (besides, the float routines are coded in assembler)
2012-01-28T18:06:06 <+Steffanx> That link laurenceb_ showed yesterday .. GCC generated slowest code with the least amount of code :)
2012-01-28T18:06:17 <+Steffanx> *the slowest
2012-01-28T18:06:30 <+Steffanx> Not sure if that changed in more recent versions of GCC though
2012-01-28T18:07:33 < jpa-> the only link by Laurenceb_ yesterday was http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/26/ipad_fleshlight_design/ :)
2012-01-28T18:07:43 <+Steffanx> Or was it today
2012-01-28T18:08:11 < jpa-> ah that one
2012-01-28T18:08:25 <+Steffanx> About that stm32 primer
2012-01-28T18:09:53 < jpa-> yeah found it
2012-01-28T18:10:06 <+Steffanx> So was it  today or yesterday? :P
2012-01-28T18:10:11 < jpa-> today
2012-01-28T18:10:21 < jpa-> i think the gcc float routines for stm32 could use some improvement
2012-01-28T18:10:23 < Laurenceb_> sorry what
2012-01-28T18:10:27 < Laurenceb_> oh
2012-01-28T18:10:29 <+Steffanx> That
2012-01-28T18:10:32 < Laurenceb_> sorry was afk
2012-01-28T18:11:06 <+Steffanx> We didn't need you anyway :P
2012-01-28T18:11:33 < Laurenceb_> yeah someone benchmarked on stm32circle
2012-01-28T18:12:11 <+Steffanx> I still wonder how well an stm32f4 performs on floating point operations
2012-01-28T18:14:23 < Laurenceb_> aiui the only overhead is getting data in/out of the fpu
2012-01-28T18:14:24 < jpa-> off the top of my head, i would expect 1-10 cycles per operation
2012-01-28T18:14:36 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-01-28T18:14:59 < jpa-> some horribly denormalized operations always take long
2012-01-28T18:15:01 <+Steffanx> That still sounds pretty slow
2012-01-28T18:15:40 < Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/9igftdMU
2012-01-28T18:15:42 < jpa-> compared to vector floating point, yeah
2012-01-28T18:15:53 < Laurenceb_> my ekf looks something like that
2012-01-28T18:16:03 < Laurenceb_>  *10^4 lines
2012-01-28T18:16:33 < Laurenceb_> so about 6 instructions/flop
2012-01-28T18:17:23 < Laurenceb_> <__aeabi_fadd> would just be replaced by fpu instruction
2012-01-28T18:19:07 <+Steffanx> So you can almost say the fpu of the f4 is 'useless'?
2012-01-28T18:19:40 < jpa-> Steffanx: how so?
2012-01-28T18:19:48 <+Steffanx> being slowish :P
2012-01-28T18:20:05 < jpa-> well 50 avg -> 5 avr is fast IMO :)
2012-01-28T18:20:09 < jpa-> *avg
2012-01-28T18:22:18 <+Steffanx> You should've released your code under MIT license :P
2012-01-28T18:22:24 <+Steffanx> oh you did
2012-01-28T18:22:27 <+Steffanx> They changed it?!
2012-01-28T18:22:43 <+Steffanx> I'm pretty sure it was (l)gpl before
2012-01-28T18:23:20 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: its still several times faster than soft float
2012-01-28T18:23:35 < Laurenceb_> about 6 or 7 times faster
2012-01-28T18:24:11 < Laurenceb_> so overall about 15 times faster than F1
2012-01-28T18:24:13 <+Steffanx> And compared to fixed point?
2012-01-28T18:24:41 < Laurenceb_> heh
2012-01-28T18:24:48 < Laurenceb_> i dont know the answer to that
2012-01-28T18:25:21 < Laurenceb_> its going to be considerably faster id say
2012-01-28T18:25:27 <+Steffanx> jpa- you know that? They changed the license?
2012-01-28T18:26:13 < Laurenceb_> fast enough to run a 16 component state vector extended kalman at 1Khz
2012-01-28T18:26:35 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, apparently he had just thrown gpl there :)
2012-01-28T18:26:51 < jpa-> then when i said i would release separately under non-gpl he switched it :D
2012-01-28T18:27:20 <+Steffanx> Yay
2012-01-28T18:27:24 < jpa-> apparently flatmush is not a license guy :P
2012-01-28T18:28:20 < jpa-> the M4 fpu should be atleast as fast as fixed point, if not faster
2012-01-28T18:28:39 <+Steffanx> Would the f4 use the fpu for simple addition and subtraction?
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2012-01-28T18:28:55 < jpa-> for "simple" float addition / subtraction, yeah
2012-01-28T18:29:08 < jpa-> because for floats, addition and subtraction are all but simple and easy
2012-01-28T18:30:08 <+Steffanx> I understand, but it's simple compared to multiplication etc. for humans :P
2012-01-28T18:30:34  * Laurenceb_ bbl
2012-01-28T18:30:55 <+Steffanx> lfm is pretty fast when it comes to those simple operations :P
2012-01-28T18:32:11 <+Steffanx> I actually just want to see a test, but no one has done that iguess
2012-01-28T18:32:56 < jpa-> well fixed point addition is trivial :)
2012-01-28T18:34:12 <+Steffanx> Yeah, ofcourse
2012-01-28T18:34:51 <+Steffanx> So if it's a combination of everything, it's still a question which is faster
2012-01-28T18:35:52 < jpa-> well atleast in division libfixmath is going to lose
2012-01-28T18:37:26 < jpa-> Q8.8 format could be a bit faster, because that would avoid all the 64-bit crap
2012-01-28T18:37:49 < jpa-> but on the other hand, it wouldn't be enough for most applications
2012-01-28T18:40:10 <+Steffanx> Yes, but when a happens with for example (a/b)+(d*e) - f
2012-01-28T18:40:14 <+Steffanx> or something like that :P
2012-01-28T18:41:30 <+Steffanx> And i forgot c
2012-01-28T18:44:33 <+Steffanx> Can qemu test that jpa- ?
2012-01-28T18:45:09 <+Steffanx> I mean, simulate that
2012-01-28T18:47:29 < jpa-> it is not cycle-accurate, so no
2012-01-28T18:47:51 <+Steffanx> Oh, i thought it was
2012-01-28T18:47:57 < jpa-> it only gives the number of instructions executed, which is a fine approximation as long as most take only 1 cycle :P
2012-01-28T18:48:15 <+Steffanx> Hmpf
2012-01-28T18:51:20 <+Steffanx> You didn't test pic's? :P
2012-01-28T18:51:45 <+Steffanx> No GCC for that, but ...
2012-01-28T18:52:18 < jpa-> the pic simulators are horrible :)
2012-01-28T18:52:30 < jpa-> and i didn't bother to use real hardware
2012-01-28T18:55:33 <+Steffanx> Next project.. pic simulator?
2012-01-28T18:56:38 < jpa-> never :)
2012-01-28T18:57:09 < BrainDamage> I might be mistaken
2012-01-28T18:57:18 < BrainDamage> but iirc there's a gcc port for 16 series pic
2012-01-28T18:57:23 < jpa-> hmm, should study the timer synchronization on STM32; i need two DMA events per each TIM1 cycle
2012-01-28T18:57:24 < BrainDamage> and 32 series is basically mips
2012-01-28T18:57:55 < jpa-> there is gcc for PIC24/32 and sdcc for the PIC16/PIC18
2012-01-28T18:58:34 <+Steffanx> pic is crap anyway
2012-01-28T18:59:48 < jpa-> well it is nice for small stuff
2012-01-28T18:59:54 < jpa-> not for 1kHz kalman filters
2012-01-28T19:00:14 <+Steffanx> AVR is better :P
2012-01-28T19:00:29 < jpa-> pic is even simpler than avr
2012-01-28T19:00:34 <+Steffanx> No way
2012-01-28T19:00:43 < jpa-> though i must agree that avr is a great fit for many hobbyist needs
2012-01-28T19:01:22 <+Steffanx> And professional, but … yeah don't know why it's not used more in real products
2012-01-28T19:02:10 < jpa-> their availibility in large amounts used to be crap
2012-01-28T19:02:37 <+Steffanx> Yeah, they had some trouble .. a few years ago
2012-01-28T19:02:54 <+Steffanx> not sure if they fixed their issues
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2012-01-28T22:50:03 <+dekar> Steffanx, so you actually like big band theory? I can't stand it somehow
2012-01-28T22:50:23 <+dekar> everyone told me to watch it and then I was like "haha, not funny :/"
2012-01-28T22:55:26 < jpa-> i like it also
2012-01-28T22:55:39 < jpa-> though we are like 3 seasons behind around here :)
2012-01-28T23:00:28 <+izua> it's kind of funny
2012-01-28T23:00:52 <+izua> not always the best topics or100% accurate, but given it's the only techie/geeky sitcom, i'll take it
2012-01-28T23:05:01 <+izua> jpa-: BAZINGA
2012-01-28T23:09:25 <+izua> true
2012-01-28T23:09:54 <+izua> does its protocol suport logic analysis though?
2012-01-28T23:19:54 <+izua> hm
2012-01-28T23:20:03 <+izua> i think even a discoveryboard can be hacked into a buspirate
2012-01-28T23:20:18 <+izua> heck, even the one with stm32f101
2012-01-28T23:20:35 <+izua> (although you'll need a serial adapter)
2012-01-28T23:23:18 <+izua> i mean, for comms between the board and the pc, you'd need a serial link, since the 32f101 has no usb
2012-01-28T23:33:44 <+izua> hmm, this might be interesting.
--- Day changed Sun Jan 29 2012
2012-01-29T00:01:13 < zippe> flyback: fpu is worthless for the pirate
2012-01-29T00:01:21 < zippe> The F105 would be the sweet spot
2012-01-29T00:01:31 < zippe> Assuming someone ever figures out the high-speed USB
2012-01-29T00:08:28 <+izua> zippe: isn't the high speed usb available thropugh the libs anyway, just left to set your descriptors right for iso/bulk
2012-01-29T00:09:54 <+izua> oh. you mean 480, not 12 Mbit, right?
2012-01-29T00:10:26 < jpa-> yeah, high speed = 480
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2012-01-29T00:53:20 <+Steffanx> It's good enough to watch dekar
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2012-01-29T01:56:50 <+Steffanx> Yay flyback
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2012-01-29T02:27:21 <+izua> that chem infobox is full of win
2012-01-29T02:27:31 <+izua> if it can't render correctly on 1920 pixels wide
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2012-01-29T04:24:36 <+izua> what color is the magic smoke inside the soc
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2012-01-29T04:37:44 <+dekar> izua, isn't there a lib for high speed?
2012-01-29T04:37:57 <+izua> not sure.
2012-01-29T04:38:08 <+dekar> I think I saw one before
2012-01-29T04:38:10 <+izua> should it be different than the regular lib?
2012-01-29T04:38:21 <+izua> as in, will it have completely different registers and setup mode?
2012-01-29T04:41:37 <+dekar> idk
2012-01-29T04:41:43 <+dekar> probably not too different
2012-01-29T04:42:26 <+dekar> I just realized I could make my device a sound card and have an JS driver communicating by emitting sounds :D
2012-01-29T04:43:37 -!- weip [7bed494c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.123.237.73.76] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
2012-01-29T04:43:40 <+dekar> izua, the mass storage example by ST explicitly states it supports high speed on devices supporting it
2012-01-29T04:44:04 <+dekar> thus no big deal I guess
2012-01-29T04:44:17 <+izua> JS driver?
2012-01-29T04:44:26 <+izua> you won't even need to emit sounds
2012-01-29T04:44:30 <+izua> you'll send samples directly
2012-01-29T04:44:45 <+dekar> yeah that's what I actually meant :)
2012-01-29T04:44:47 <+izua> only that sound devices need an iso endpoint iirc
2012-01-29T04:44:59 <+izua> which means there is no 'stop sending me samples kbai' mode
2012-01-29T04:45:20 <+dekar> I can always turn the endpoint off
2012-01-29T04:45:35 <+izua> i made a firmware updater that way, long time ago
2012-01-29T04:45:36 <+dekar> unplug one of the composite devices
2012-01-29T04:45:41 <+izua> only that it used actual sounds on a soundcard
2012-01-29T04:45:45 <+dekar> :D
2012-01-29T04:45:54 <+dekar> that's so fucked up
2012-01-29T04:45:59 <+izua> yeah i know xD
2012-01-29T04:46:03 <+dekar> no matter what you say, _not_ elegant!
2012-01-29T04:46:07 <+dekar> but funny :D
2012-01-29T04:46:14 <+izua> everybody has a soundcard.
2012-01-29T04:46:20 <+dekar> agree
2012-01-29T04:46:26 <+izua> can't say the same about paraports, usb, serial, etc
2012-01-29T04:46:36 <+dekar> everybody has usb
2012-01-29T04:46:47 <+izua> every modern consumer pc, yeah
2012-01-29T04:47:16 <+izua> but if you drop modern, or home use, you'll see 8 year old boxes running xp sp0 with msie _slowly_
2012-01-29T04:47:26 <+izua> msie6  :D
2012-01-29T04:47:39 <+izua> also
2012-01-29T04:47:43 <+izua> if oyu turn the endpoint off
2012-01-29T04:47:43 <+dekar> they have USB
2012-01-29T04:48:11 <+izua> wouldn't that mean the os will inform the user the device disconnected?
2012-01-29T04:48:12 <+dekar> my pentium 3 I got in 2000 had USB1, it came with windows 98
2012-01-29T04:48:22 <+izua> well
2012-01-29T04:48:34 <+dekar> izua, sure, windows would make funny sounds disconnecting the device
2012-01-29T04:48:44 <+izua> i basically did it because of two guys
2012-01-29T04:48:47 <+izua> horror stories ahead
2012-01-29T04:49:06 <+izua> one basically blew his usb ports making a custom type a-type a cable, to have two computers network together
2012-01-29T04:49:19 <+dekar> neat
2012-01-29T04:49:26 <+izua> the other had a usb mouse and keyboard installed and was kind of a *cough*jew*cough*
2012-01-29T04:49:51 <+izua> d+ goes to d-
2012-01-29T04:49:53 <+izua> so + goes to -
2012-01-29T04:49:56 <+izua> makes perfect sense
2012-01-29T04:50:18 <+dekar> I actually shortened my usb on the macbook not long ago
2012-01-29T04:50:19 <+izua> that's the logic bro
2012-01-29T04:50:29 <+dekar> nothing happened - OSX told me I drew too much power
2012-01-29T04:50:42 <+izua> depends on the hub's architecture i guess
2012-01-29T04:50:58 <+izua> so anyway
2012-01-29T04:51:17 <+izua> after several episodes where i had to type the update command on keyboard
2012-01-29T04:51:28 <+izua> disconnect the keyboard and plug in a ftdi-serial adapter
2012-01-29T04:51:33 <+dekar> izua, that guy should have connected your sound card thing to usb VCC and tell you it wouldn't work :D
2012-01-29T04:51:36 <+izua> then click send with the mouse
2012-01-29T04:51:57 <+izua> rofl
2012-01-29T04:52:00 <+izua> that guy was epic brah
2012-01-29T04:52:03 <+izua> had a sweetspot for usb
2012-01-29T04:52:16 <+izua> made a driver box for his cnc
2012-01-29T04:52:36 <+izua> and you know.. stepper motors have 4 wires
2012-01-29T04:52:39 <+izua> usb has 4 wires
2012-01-29T04:52:54 <+dekar> x.x
2012-01-29T04:52:58 <+izua> cables are cheap, unlike those expensive and non-flexible motor cables xD
2012-01-29T04:53:28 <+dekar> I never actually used steppers, servos only have 3, don't they?
2012-01-29T04:53:38 <+izua> anyway, he had a client over, huge mess of usb wires on the worktable, needless to say, he let the magic smoke out of a client's mobo
2012-01-29T04:53:41 <+dekar> aren't servos considered to be steppers as well?
2012-01-29T04:53:48 <+izua> uh
2012-01-29T04:53:53 <+dekar> wow lol
2012-01-29T04:54:10 <+izua> dc servos (encoder + motor) usually have a driver attached, and a step/dir interface
2012-01-29T04:54:14 <+izua> or cw/ccw
2012-01-29T04:54:58 <+izua> otherwise,they just have + and - for the motor, and i/q/home output from the encoder, or n outputs, for an encoder with n channels
2012-01-29T04:55:10 <+izua> cheap RC servos have 3 lines yeah, but those are toys :P
2012-01-29T04:55:19 <+dekar> never had any :)
2012-01-29T04:56:45 <+izua> they can do fun stuff
2012-01-29T04:56:45 <+dekar> why are sound cards allowed to communicate with the browser? -.-"
2012-01-29T04:56:46 <+izua> like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcjjFIzcFPs
2012-01-29T04:57:05 <+dekar> haha, have seen that before
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2012-01-29T04:57:17 <+izua> so you can hear moans on redtube?
2012-01-29T04:57:35 <+izua> there was an even better one
2012-01-29T04:57:39 <+dekar> but why can't HID?
2012-01-29T04:58:00 <+izua> where two of those were joined together with a block
2012-01-29T04:58:04 <+izua> and they kept toggling eachother
2012-01-29T04:58:10 <+izua> and the title was something about politics :)
2012-01-29T04:58:33 <+izua> i don't think the browser communicates to the soundcard directly over usb, but through the regular sound API
2012-01-29T04:58:39 <+izua> mixer/etc
2012-01-29T04:58:53 <+dekar> https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI/WebUSB
2012-01-29T04:59:16 <+dekar> That's what I want
2012-01-29T04:59:28 <+dekar> and yeah ofc it uses an api
2012-01-29T04:59:56 <+izua> wow lol
2012-01-29T04:59:57 <+izua> really?
2012-01-29T05:00:03 <+izua> WebUSB sounds like a bad idea
2012-01-29T05:00:05 <+dekar> really!
2012-01-29T05:00:06 <+izua> to put it mildly
2012-01-29T05:00:11 <+dekar> I so want it XD
2012-01-29T05:00:21 <+izua> gtoogle owns your soul brah
2012-01-29T05:00:25 <+dekar> make my forum format your usb hard drive!
2012-01-29T05:00:32 <+izua> google and their hellish webos
2012-01-29T05:00:39 <+dekar> it's mozilla
2012-01-29T05:00:44 <+dekar> -> firefox
2012-01-29T05:00:49 <+izua> by the looks of it
2012-01-29T05:00:49 <+dekar> and mozilla stuff only
2012-01-29T05:00:59 <+izua> it seems you have to know what device yo uwant
2012-01-29T05:01:00 <+dekar> their own api
2012-01-29T05:01:07 <+izua> inb4 attaching to every possible VID:PID combo for hdds
2012-01-29T05:01:09 <+dekar> I want your HDD
2012-01-29T05:01:54 <+izua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkgoSOSGrx4
2012-01-29T05:02:01 <+dekar> there is an easy solution to the security problem
2012-01-29T05:02:05 <+izua> lold @ google ads recommending me automation solutions
2012-01-29T05:02:11 <+izua> disallow hdd access.
2012-01-29T05:02:11 -!- _Lucretia_ [~munkee@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2012-01-29T05:02:14 <+dekar> just have the USB device set some flag "web enabled!"
2012-01-29T05:02:28 <+izua> or anything that uses generic drivers
2012-01-29T05:02:29 <+dekar> solves all problems
2012-01-29T05:02:41 <+izua> anything that uses generic drivers is already handled by the os
2012-01-29T05:02:46 <+izua> so that's only cool for custom devices.
2012-01-29T05:02:54 <+dekar> it's dangerous
2012-01-29T05:02:57 <+dekar> could brick devices etc
2012-01-29T05:03:05 <+izua> it's retarded anyway :P
2012-01-29T05:03:07 <+dekar> only activate it for web enabled devices
2012-01-29T05:03:12 <+dekar> I love it
2012-01-29T05:03:17 <+izua> why? :P
2012-01-29T05:03:18 <+dekar> how is it retarded?
2012-01-29T05:03:40 <+izua> it creates a huge security risk for the sole purpose of having the user click 3 times less
2012-01-29T05:03:56 <+dekar> cause atm we have this adobe flash application talking to JS which then loads a Java applet loading my frickin' HID driver
2012-01-29T05:04:00 <+izua> plus, it paves the way open for even better webos stuff
2012-01-29T05:04:03 <+izua> i can't stand that
2012-01-29T05:04:15 <+izua> *epic rant about kill webos & co*
2012-01-29T05:04:18 <+dekar> no, have the device control it
2012-01-29T05:04:20 <+izua> killing
2012-01-29T05:04:27 <+dekar> w/e
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2012-01-29T05:04:44 <+izua> you could just have a java applet? :P
2012-01-29T05:04:54 <+dekar> legacy stuff
2012-01-29T05:05:00 <+izua> or you want to have it nice and shiny straight from the dom?
2012-01-29T05:05:07 <+dekar> the flash used to communicate with some activeX
2012-01-29T05:05:13 <+izua> with animations that fsck up completely when disabling javascript and so on? :D
2012-01-29T05:05:24 <+dekar> w/e
2012-01-29T05:05:31 <+dekar> I don't care too much about the application
2012-01-29T05:05:38 <+dekar> I would have done it completely different
2012-01-29T05:05:40 <+dekar> not up to me
2012-01-29T05:05:50 <+dekar> I just connected my stuff to it
2012-01-29T05:06:24 <+izua> heh
2012-01-29T05:06:27 <+dekar> the Java stuff we use no is potentially unsafe
2012-01-29T05:06:41 <+izua> why do you need all that web goodness?
2012-01-29T05:06:47 <+dekar> the user gets some warning about our signed application loading up and allows it
2012-01-29T05:06:55 <+dekar> then the java loads native code
2012-01-29T05:06:56 <+izua> couldn't it have been designed with a plain old desktop app?
2012-01-29T05:07:00 <+dekar> without any sandbox
2012-01-29T05:07:15 <+dekar> izua, ask support@flexoptix.net
2012-01-29T05:07:27 <+izua> thank you, come again?
2012-01-29T05:07:33 <+dekar> they had this activeX stuff before I joined
2012-01-29T05:07:44 <+izua> it sounds like bad design by default
2012-01-29T05:07:55 <+izua> just having a desktop app query the credentials is much easier and probably safer too
2012-01-29T05:07:56 <+dekar> it works
2012-01-29T05:08:14 <+izua> in case some smartass tries to alter the comms, so he could get more uses out of his device
2012-01-29T05:08:20 <+dekar> not worth redoing it at this state
2012-01-29T05:08:25 <+izua> obviously :P
2012-01-29T05:08:59 <+dekar> izua, what do you mean? you can just asynchronously communicate over the untrusted link
2012-01-29T05:09:19 <+dekar> it's not a security risk for our application
2012-01-29T05:09:41 <+dekar> my point is just that the client has to run native code anyway - be it java or an application
2012-01-29T05:09:49 <+dekar> *java-applet
2012-01-29T05:11:17 <+izua> eh
2012-01-29T05:11:18 <+izua> dude
2012-01-29T05:11:29 <+izua> what's with your sleep patterns?
2012-01-29T05:11:39 <+dekar> they're fucked up
2012-01-29T05:11:44 <+izua> or more specifically - how do you correct em
2012-01-29T05:12:02 <+dekar> dunno, it usually works out
2012-01-29T05:12:17 <+dekar> often involving coffee
2012-01-29T05:12:51 <+izua> ouch
2012-01-29T05:13:15 <+dekar> izua, I usually use crypto++ for desktop applications, do you know any crypto lib for embedded targets?
2012-01-29T05:13:38 <+izua> i've messed with crypto++ for some signing stuff, to get my own licensing shceme
2012-01-29T05:14:05 <+dekar> I've ported crypto++ to the Qt mingw toolchain a while ago :/
2012-01-29T05:14:14 <+izua> but since i never bugged about low level code neatery, like encrypting blocks of functions, it's kind of useless
2012-01-29T05:14:24 <+izua> reversing a if (licensed())
2012-01-29T05:14:39 <+izua> is kind of the initial test for any wannabe cracker
2012-01-29T05:14:42 <+izua> jne/je /etc :P
2012-01-29T05:14:43 <+dekar> I thought about dynamically loading lua scripts into the stm32
2012-01-29T05:14:48 <+dekar> and doing so encrypted
2012-01-29T05:14:57 <+izua> lol
2012-01-29T05:14:57 <+dekar> well I could encrypt my whole USB stuff
2012-01-29T05:15:02 <+izua> executing lua on stm32? o_o
2012-01-29T05:15:07 <+dekar> yeah
2012-01-29T05:15:17 <+izua> just to prevent that jtag bug?
2012-01-29T05:15:29 <+dekar> what? no, idc about the jtag bug lol
2012-01-29T05:15:40 <+izua> anyway - what's your opinion on the protection bug, how did the boads end up in production anyway?
2012-01-29T05:15:52 <+izua> and about embedded lib for crypto - dunno - let me know if you find one
2012-01-29T05:16:00 <+dekar> k
2012-01-29T05:16:07 <+dekar> protection bug doesn't matter imo
2012-01-29T05:16:18 <+izua> i had an attempt to port a symmetric key algo on avr
2012-01-29T05:16:20 <+dekar> and you can't fix that bug in software
2012-01-29T05:16:28 <+dekar> well unless you use homomorphic encryption
2012-01-29T05:17:09 <+dekar> and fully homomorphic encryption is the holy grail of cryptography, a useable solution is yet to be found
2012-01-29T05:17:30 <+dekar> thus you effectively can't fix the protection bug in software
2012-01-29T05:17:37 <+dekar> but I don't care about security
2012-01-29T05:18:02 <+izua> yeah, true
2012-01-29T05:18:07 <+izua> just by some epic board trickery
2012-01-29T05:18:20 <+dekar> like burning the pins?
2012-01-29T05:18:31 <+izua> or by running a critical section of it on a plain old avr? :P
2012-01-29T05:18:38 <+dekar> lol
2012-01-29T05:18:46 <+izua> i like the diode matrix in the vias under the cpu approach
2012-01-29T05:19:05 <+dekar> I read this blog from this guy who breaks ICs by opening them up regularly
2012-01-29T05:19:09 <+izua> if you use the heatgun on the cpu, the diodes will also come out
2012-01-29T05:19:15 <+dekar> so all of that doesn't stand up to that
2012-01-29T05:19:16 <+izua> mhh.. link?
2012-01-29T05:21:06 <+dekar> izua, http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com/2011/03/practical-mc13224-firmware-extraction.html
2012-01-29T05:21:40 <+dekar> also: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2160
2012-01-29T05:22:12 <+dekar> I wouldn't trust any IC for that matter, even the xilinx protection has been broken
2012-01-29T05:22:34 <+izua> incredibly neat
2012-01-29T05:23:12 <+dekar> I think I have several blogs in my subscriptions dealing with stuff like that
2012-01-29T05:25:58 <+dekar> izua, you could just X-Ray the diodes
2012-01-29T05:26:33 <+izua> http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html
2012-01-29T05:26:39 <+dekar> I really think obfuscated code is harder to reverse than stuff like that
2012-01-29T05:26:45 <+izua> you wouldn't be able to tell their orientation
2012-01-29T05:26:59 <+dekar> do a CT scan and you will be
2012-01-29T05:27:01 <+izua> indeed
2012-01-29T05:27:15 <+izua> but just having the code means your device can easily be cloned
2012-01-29T05:27:22 <+izua> no need to actually understasnd it
2012-01-29T05:27:33 <+dekar> nope, you can add challenge response
2012-01-29T05:27:38 <+dekar> revoke the key used
2012-01-29T05:27:41 <+izua> you need an incredibly high resolution CT to do that
2012-01-29T05:27:53 <+izua> it's not something hospitals usually have :P
2012-01-29T05:28:04 <+izua> wait what
2012-01-29T05:28:07 <+izua> what are you talking about
2012-01-29T05:28:11 <+izua> obfuscated code, revoke the key?
2012-01-29T05:28:25 <+dekar> make it speak to some webserver
2012-01-29T05:28:31 <+izua> ah
2012-01-29T05:28:33 <+dekar> authenticate using a unique key
2012-01-29T05:28:38 <+izua> so hardware ethernet
2012-01-29T05:28:39 <+dekar> cloned keys get revoked
2012-01-29T05:28:41 <+izua> yeah, got it
2012-01-29T05:28:49 <+izua> but that can also be bypassed with a firewall
2012-01-29T05:28:56 <+dekar> you can even clone homomorphic applications
2012-01-29T05:28:57 <+izua> that's actually way easier than to hack the chip
2012-01-29T05:29:14 <+izua> or even just to attempt to read the code
2012-01-29T05:29:21 <+dekar> enforce the internet connection, make parts of the logic evaluate on the server
2012-01-29T05:29:43 <+izua> yeah, so if my firewalls rewrites the packet..
2012-01-29T05:29:55 <+izua> even with encryption, the keys are still publicly available in the code :P
2012-01-29T05:30:10 <+dekar> you can rule out replay attacks using an RNG
2012-01-29T05:30:47 <+izua> but that still needs an algorithm key + rng = response, which is openly seen in the code
2012-01-29T05:30:55 <+dekar> well make the whole firmware logic modular and split it into a bazillion encrypted chunks of thumb2 code
2012-01-29T05:31:00 <+dekar> which are dynamically downloaded
2012-01-29T05:31:03 <+izua> lol
2012-01-29T05:31:08 <+izua> that's fucked up brah
2012-01-29T05:31:12 <+izua> even for you xD
2012-01-29T05:31:24 <+dekar> copy protections for games do that
2012-01-29T05:31:31 <+izua> and by that logic, i think one could also use GPL libs
2012-01-29T05:31:40 <+dekar> w/e
2012-01-29T05:31:48 <+dekar> I am not planning to do something like that
2012-01-29T05:31:52 <+dekar> I just mean it is possible
2012-01-29T05:31:53 <+izua> you w/e too much :P
2012-01-29T05:31:57 <+dekar> my firmware is dumb anyway
2012-01-29T05:32:01 <+dekar> just usb to i2c
2012-01-29T05:32:34 <+dekar> I'll try to bsd my firmware and driver
2012-01-29T05:32:52 <+dekar> my boss might agree, somehow he liked the idea of having open source stuff lately
2012-01-29T05:33:12 <+dekar> I think my FW could be a cool base for bus pirate style projects
2012-01-29T05:33:25 <+dekar> my HID protocol and library is really reliable
2012-01-29T05:33:36 <+izua> http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/3325603952/in/photostream/
2012-01-29T05:33:39 <+dekar> supports using HIDAPI and libUSB as backends
2012-01-29T05:34:06 <+dekar> also it allows generic control over all GPIO, ADC as well as the I2C controllers
2012-01-29T05:35:15 <+izua> sounds neat.
2012-01-29T05:35:26 <+izua> with the periph lib from stm32?
2012-01-29T05:35:31 <+dekar> yeah
2012-01-29T05:35:35 <+izua> ouch XD
2012-01-29T05:35:40 <+dekar> why?
2012-01-29T05:35:44 <+dekar> I started liking it
2012-01-29T05:35:49 <+izua> i recall it was quite a pain developing it :P
2012-01-29T05:36:11 <+izua> random faults/disconnects, epic bsods on descriptors, etc :D
2012-01-29T05:36:19 <+dekar> dunno, I am using 3.4 atm and I haven't noticed any bugs in a while
2012-01-29T05:36:25 <+izua> oh man, three smilies in three lines
2012-01-29T05:36:27 <+izua> i should hit the sack
2012-01-29T05:36:47 <+izua> i'm gonna bug you tommorow about any issues that are still present on usb for 3.4
2012-01-29T05:36:56 <+dekar> :P
2012-01-29T05:36:58 <+izua> till then, g'night
2012-01-29T05:37:02 <+dekar> night
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2012-01-29T05:59:14 < thaly> hi everyone
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2012-01-29T18:39:58 <+dekar> flyback, isn't V a series?
2012-01-29T18:42:54 < Laurenceb_>  < dongs> I can write 128k of flash into STM32F103C8T6
2012-01-29T18:42:54 < Laurenceb_> <dongs> 22:50 < dongs> flash memory size register returns 64k.
2012-01-29T18:43:05 < Laurenceb_> ^anyone here seen that?
2012-01-29T18:48:51 < jpa-> actually write and read back, or just write? :)
2012-01-29T18:49:00 <+dekar> Laurenceb_ can you read it back?
2012-01-29T18:49:27 <+dekar> I have written pin groups that weren't on the model I had before
2012-01-29T18:49:29 < Laurenceb_> i dont have one
2012-01-29T18:49:30 <+dekar> worked as well
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2012-01-29T22:17:40 <+dekar> flyback, what's so fail about it? just normal US ads
2012-01-29T22:18:18 <+dekar> I have seen worse
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2012-01-29T22:31:44 < emeb> Having big fun getting my own codec driver code up & running on the STM32F4 Discovery board.
2012-01-29T22:31:59 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-01-29T22:32:02 <+Steffanx> Codec?
2012-01-29T22:32:18 < emeb> They call it codec - really it's just an I2S audio dac
2012-01-29T22:33:48 < emeb> Got the I2S IRQ version working but DMA version needs more attention.
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2012-01-29T22:38:26 <+Steffanx> So what are you going to play?
2012-01-29T22:39:13 < emeb> Making a synth.
2012-01-29T22:39:44 < emeb> testing out some new algorithms that may benefit from floating point.
2012-01-29T22:40:22 <+Steffanx> Nice
2012-01-29T22:40:39 < emeb> hope so.:)
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2012-01-29T22:58:13 < emeb> Happy with it so far.
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2012-01-29T23:04:15 <+dekar> I feel like starting an embedded crypto lib
2012-01-29T23:04:21 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-01-29T23:04:35 <+dekar> I only found GPL ones
2012-01-29T23:04:51 <+Steffanx> And you make it MIT?
2012-01-29T23:05:02 <+dekar> or public domain
2012-01-29T23:05:52 <+Steffanx> MIT :P
2012-01-29T23:07:40 <+dekar> Steffanx, hows MIT better than Public Domain?
2012-01-29T23:07:52 <+dekar> besides public domain is compatible with BSD/MIT and so on
2012-01-29T23:08:44 <+dekar> I don't want much, sha256, aes and some ECC
2012-01-29T23:08:52 <+Steffanx> MIT just looks fancier
2012-01-29T23:09:08 <+Steffanx> md5 is still pretty standard
2012-01-29T23:10:12 <+dekar> not using md5 for anything, it's like half broken
2012-01-29T23:10:22 <+dekar> there are known collisions
2012-01-29T23:10:30 <+Steffanx> doesnt matter.. you don't only build it for yourself i guess :p
2012-01-29T23:11:00 <+dekar> I'll add what I like, others may add their stuff
2012-01-29T23:15:10 <+Steffanx> I don't even know where to start with stuff like that
2012-01-29T23:15:27 < jpa-> wikipedia? :)
2012-01-29T23:16:40 <+Steffanx> And now the less silly response please
2012-01-29T23:18:08 <+dekar> Steffanx, stuff like what?
2012-01-29T23:18:18 <+Steffanx> SHA256, AES etc.
2012-01-29T23:18:33 <+dekar> I once implemented most of AES at university
2012-01-29T23:19:33 <+Steffanx> ok, but where did you start? :P
2012-01-29T23:19:43 <+dekar> implementing the s-box
2012-01-29T23:20:26 <+dekar> I'd like to make it really small, maybe you can build some custom hashing algorithm from AES
2012-01-29T23:21:05 <+dekar> I think several SHA3 candidates are AES based
2012-01-29T23:21:26 <+dekar> also we'd need some cryptographic PRNG
2012-01-29T23:21:33 <+dekar> I guess that could be based on AES as well
2012-01-29T23:23:20 <+dekar> Steffanx, doesn't the new STM32 have some opcode performing one round of AES?
2012-01-29T23:23:30 <+dekar> would be cool to use that for hashing as well
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2012-01-29T23:29:07 <+dekar> Steffanx, most implementations just implement the s-box as a constant array, but if you actually implement the math behind it you save some spave
2012-01-29T23:29:10 <+dekar> *space
2012-01-29T23:29:56 <+dekar> I think I still have that code
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2012-01-30T00:18:45 < karlp> heh, looks like my radio problem was that I had turned it all down _tooo_ slow to try and work it out.
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2012-01-30T00:19:16 < karlp> wasn't leaving enough time to process acks between packets.
2012-01-30T00:28:01 < karlp> well damn, now it's not working again.
2012-01-30T00:28:03 < karlp> the hell.
2012-01-30T00:38:32 <+Steffanx> heeh karlp
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2012-01-30T00:38:38 <+Steffanx> wireless stuff is nice isn't it?
2012-01-30T00:38:57 < karlp> yeah, it's awesome.
2012-01-30T00:39:00 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
2012-01-30T00:39:12 < karlp> somethings wrong with my uart code too, it seems to be losing stuff
2012-01-30T00:39:16 < karlp> god knows why
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2012-01-30T00:40:45 <+Steffanx> Hmm, is my client bugging? Or is weird stuff happening?
2012-01-30T00:41:25 <+Steffanx> My client says "Miyu" entered this channel, but there's no one online with that nick according to the nick 'list'
2012-01-30T00:42:16 < karlp> miyu is now known as hackkitten...
2012-01-30T00:42:31 <+Steffanx> Ah, i didn't see that
2012-01-30T00:42:42 <+Steffanx> Buggy client i guess
2012-01-30T00:44:21 < hackkitten> :>
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2012-01-30T13:26:21 < Thorn> hello
2012-01-30T13:26:27 < jpa-> hello
2012-01-30T13:26:48 < Thorn> stupid question: freertos does preserve local variables on task preemption, doesn't it?
2012-01-30T13:27:22 < jpa-> you mean the variables on stack? of course it does
2012-01-30T13:27:33 < Thorn> that's what I mean
2012-01-30T13:27:42 < jpa-> it has a separate stack for each task (except if you use the 'thin threads')
2012-01-30T13:27:50 < Thorn> I'm reading an article which states that it doesn't
2012-01-30T13:27:57 < jpa-> can you give a link?
2012-01-30T13:27:59 < Thorn> thin threads = coroutines?
2012-01-30T13:28:31 < Thorn> it's in Russian. will ask the poster some questions now, thanks
2012-01-30T13:30:27 < jpa-> yeah coroutines
2012-01-30T13:30:34 < jpa-> i can try google translate :P
2012-01-30T13:31:20 < Thorn> http://we.easyelectronics.ru/STM32/stm32-freertos.html
2012-01-30T13:31:40 < Thorn> second to last paragraph
2012-01-30T13:34:26 < jpa-> heh, configMINIMAL_STACK_SIZE
2012-01-30T13:34:42 < jpa-> no wonder he is losing his variables; he is overflowing the stack
2012-01-30T13:35:14 < jpa-> MINIMAL_STACK_SIZE is only enough for the idle task, i.e. no variables
2012-01-30T13:36:28 < Thorn> I had it set to 128 bytes in my projects, it was enough for what I did
2012-01-30T13:36:33 < jpa-> yeah
2012-01-30T13:37:07 < jpa-> MINIMAL_STACK_SIZE is 40 or less
2012-01-30T13:37:38 < jpa-> but turning on the stack check is a good idea
2012-01-30T14:26:56 < Thorn> is it possible to use separate stack for interrupts with freertos?
2012-01-30T14:30:24 < jpa-> i think it does it by default
2012-01-30T14:30:49 < jpa-> the stack where you call vTaskStartScheduler() becomes the interrupt stack
2012-01-30T15:09:07 <+dekar> you don't seem to use much stack, I have buffers as big as 2k on my stack - upped it to 8k
2012-01-30T15:19:10 < Thorn> found embOS docs which say explicitly that tasks run in thread mode and the handler mode stack is separate, but can't find anything equivalent for freertos
2012-01-30T15:20:11 < Thorn> I think I've seen MSP change when calling functions within freertos tasks, maybe it depends on actual port? e.g. f1 vs. f4 or something
2012-01-30T15:20:45 < Thorn> time to read the source
2012-01-30T15:21:22 < jpa-> dekar: it's nice to allocate buffers statically when possible
2012-01-30T15:22:25 < jpa-> Thorn: it will be quite well hidden in the source, IIRC it is just a matter of executing one instruction at the start
2012-01-30T15:26:10 <+dekar> I do that statically, but doesn't that sit on the stack as well?
2012-01-30T15:26:55 < Thorn> you mean function() { static char c[2048]; }?
2012-01-30T15:27:10 < Thorn> it should be in .data iirc
2012-01-30T15:31:41 <+dekar> well I actually just have it sit in the global scope, but that should do the same, shouldn't it?
2012-01-30T15:32:54 < Thorn> well s/.data/.bss/ if it's uninitialized
2012-01-30T15:34:23 <+dekar> I don't know much about those sections. The actual program code is in .text, isn't it? My buffer is writeable and thus has to either be in the stack or heap at runtime, right?
2012-01-30T15:34:27 < jpa-> dekar: yes, global and static variables don't go to stack
2012-01-30T15:34:49 <+dekar> where do they go then? I mean I can write them
2012-01-30T15:34:51 < jpa-> the .data and .bss are a set of RAM addresses that will not be used for stack nor heap
2012-01-30T15:34:58 < Thorn> .data and .bss are also writable
2012-01-30T15:35:11 <+dekar> oh, okay
2012-01-30T15:35:31 < jpa-> ie. the linker sees how much .data + .bss there is, and then the rest of the RAM is allocated for heap/stack
2012-01-30T15:35:54 < Thorn> if you do const char *s = "foo" gcc will actually put that in .text
2012-01-30T15:37:22 <+dekar> I don't really see the purpose of those sections, couldn't you just put everything on the stack - or call malloc to place it on the heap at startup?
2012-01-30T15:37:24 < Thorn> heap is everything from the end of .bss to the end of the stack (since the stack grows downward), if your linker scripts defines appropriate symbols that is
2012-01-30T15:37:59 < jpa-> dekar: well, malloc has overhead (often 8 bytes per allocation)
2012-01-30T15:38:12 < jpa-> and on the stack it would go away as soon as the current function returns
2012-01-30T15:38:28 <+dekar> so? use a big stack :D jk, I get your point then
2012-01-30T15:38:42 <+dekar> no I meant at the base of the stack
2012-01-30T15:38:57 <+dekar> at initialization, for a global scoped variable
2012-01-30T15:39:09 < jpa-> base of which stack? :P
2012-01-30T15:39:13 < jpa-> if you have many threads :)
2012-01-30T15:39:38 <+dekar> hm, that might be a problem :)
2012-01-30T15:39:43 < jpa-> but anyway, the .data + .bss makes more sense when you think about PC's, there the whole binary is loaded into ram and it can use the .data directly
2012-01-30T15:39:46 <+dekar> I am glad I only have one
2012-01-30T15:41:35 <+dekar> But that's interesting and it means I wouldn't even have to have a stack that big. I thought stuff like that went to the base of my stack and thus upped my stack sized quite a bit
2012-01-30T15:42:55 < jpa-> if you have a single thread, you don't usually even set the stack size explicitly
2012-01-30T15:43:00 <+dekar> jpa-, what malloc implementation are you using? I read the codesourcery/newlib one wastes 4kb every time you call it, that's why I never used malloc
2012-01-30T15:43:32 < jpa-> dekar: yeah, the sbrk-stuff in newlib is a bit stupid for microcontroller
2012-01-30T15:43:53 < jpa-> i use the klibc malloc: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/baselibc/src/malloc.c
2012-01-30T15:44:11 < jpa-> or lately, the chibios stuff
2012-01-30T15:45:52 < Thorn> there was a good presentation about C linkage etc on scribd, can't find it
2012-01-30T15:46:54 <+dekar> I guess I should learn more about that, I never really understood the linkerscripts and just was glad they worked :)
2012-01-30T15:47:43 < Thorn> http://www.segger.com/cms/jtag-isolator.html - that's how you make money, looks like it's $200 or so
2012-01-30T15:49:26 <+dekar> Thorn, wouldn't you in most cases rather power the board through jtag than isolate it?
2012-01-30T15:50:03 < jpa-> nah, especially laptops connected to AC charger are very annoying ground noise sources
2012-01-30T15:50:57 < Thorn> photo here: http://www.terraelectronica.ru/news_postup.php?ID=2405
2012-01-30T15:51:03 <+dekar> right, I see that all the time - projectors flickering when connected to charging laptops and so on :/
2012-01-30T15:51:10 < Thorn> are 4MHz optos this expensive?
2012-01-30T15:51:36 <+dekar> I don't think so, besides jtag can also run slower
2012-01-30T15:52:07 < jpa-> Thorn: nope, but small-scale manufacturing is if you want to make profit
2012-01-30T15:52:45 < jpa-> though that doesn't even come with a box :F
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2012-01-30T15:55:18 < Thorn> they must want a whole lot of profit
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2012-01-30T16:04:46 <+dekar> Well, it's not like people need a ton of those opto-isolator things. They have the risk of not selling all the ones they produced etc
2012-01-30T16:09:32 < jpa-> plus they may be profitable enough that it makes no sense to sell it if they don't get a good profit; apparently there are some people who are willing to pay
2012-01-30T16:12:40 < karlp> this has a good discussion of data, bss and heap v stack, with nice diagrams: http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/malloc.html
2012-01-30T16:12:51 < karlp> it's tied to avr-libc, btu the concepts are much the same.
2012-01-30T16:13:00 < karlp> some of the symbols will be different though
2012-01-30T16:13:18 < Laurenceb> yeah thats nice
2012-01-30T16:16:52 < karlp> the section names are not nearly as standardized in the arm chains as in avr-libc, as the arm chains mostly seem to expect you to provide your own linker script.
2012-01-30T16:17:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
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2012-01-30T18:07:26 < Thorn> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-57367694-64/windows-8-stable-on-arm-going-to-developers-soon-say-sources/
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2012-01-30T18:15:37 <+dekar> A lot people tell me it won't take off, but I really feel like it's gonna work - the windows 8 on arm stuff I mean
2012-01-30T18:16:49 < Thorn> more popularity for the architecture = more and better development tools :)
2012-01-30T18:16:50 < jpa-> it won't take off like windows, but it might take off like windows phone
2012-01-30T18:17:27 < jpa-> on the other hand, windows on x86 tablets never took off either :)
2012-01-30T18:19:20 < Thorn> arm chips should be much cheaper, power efficient, and have more peripherals since they need much less transistors for the cpu. x86 is seriously bloated aiui
2012-01-30T18:21:26 <+dekar> I think a lot of people will be fine having some arm laptop running firefox and thunderbird on windows 8
2012-01-30T18:22:39 < jpa-> until they want flash plugin? :P
2012-01-30T18:22:42 < Thorn> as long as it's not too ram hungry
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2012-01-30T18:26:10 < Thorn> I wonder if there's going to be a free windows 8 sdk for arm
2012-01-30T18:31:29 < eruif> the ST tools are quite rough ?
2012-01-30T18:32:14 < eruif> programming the STM32VLDiscovery on windows doesn't work if you're not Administrator.
2012-01-30T18:35:13 < karlp> using a windows machine without being admin doesn't work either.
2012-01-30T18:35:24 < karlp> and, unless you got help from your admin, it doesn't work on linux either
2012-01-30T18:37:34 < eruif> I installed as Admin. but I intend to run as an unprivileged user.
2012-01-30T18:38:08 -!- dekar [~dekar@46.115.0.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-01-30T18:42:14 < karlp> what hat you wear on a given day doesn't change the fact that youare admin :)
2012-01-30T18:43:05 < eruif> I don't see your point.
2012-01-30T18:43:52 < karlp> I'm not sure what yours was either, so I guess I just being obstinate for no reason.
2012-01-30T18:43:56 < karlp> sorry.
2012-01-30T18:44:22 < eruif> my point was that an application should not require you to be root in order for it to function.
2012-01-30T18:44:49 < karlp> if you want low level access to the hardware, why not?
2012-01-30T18:45:23 < eruif> that's what the driver is for.
2012-01-30T18:46:10 < karlp> so, "I trust this arbitrary blob of code, but not that arbitrary blob of code"
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2012-01-30T18:47:45 < eruif> this sucks. the forum seems to have some discussion of the matter so I guess I'm not the only one to complain.
2012-01-30T18:49:24 < eruif> karlp: did I understand you correctly - you cannot program a discovery board from Linux if you're not root ?
2012-01-30T18:50:55 < zyp> sure you can
2012-01-30T18:51:03 < karlp> not unless someone with admin setups the udev rules to access the stlink portion.
2012-01-30T18:51:13 < zyp> true
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2012-01-30T18:52:30 < eruif> well, the upside is that I finally found something that stinks worse than ST's website.
2012-01-30T18:52:53 < Thorn> their forum?
2012-01-30T18:52:59 < eruif> their software
2012-01-30T18:56:57 < Laurenceb> lol
2012-01-30T18:57:12 < Laurenceb> anyone tried their new inemo kalman filter code?
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2012-01-30T19:50:28 < eruif> anyone has STLinkUSBDriver.dll version < 4.2.1.0 ? (if you have Atollic studio installed, you should have it)
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2012-01-30T20:08:57 < ratatata> nu
2012-01-30T20:09:37 < jpa-> old
2012-01-30T20:12:16 <+Steffann> No, not really
2012-01-30T20:15:08 -!- dekar [~dekar@2.212.231.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2012-01-30T20:19:24 < jpa-> ratatata: it's spelled "Rattata"
2012-01-30T20:20:18 < ratatata> no
2012-01-30T20:20:33 < ratatata> its spelled ak47ratatatata
2012-01-30T20:20:39 < ratatata> but it was tl
2012-01-30T20:20:44 <+Steffann> ak47 ..
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2012-01-30T20:22:05 < jpa-> Steffanx: what's the x for? sex?
2012-01-30T20:22:16 <+Steffanx> Random character
2012-01-30T20:22:19 < jpa-> and n == no sex?
2012-01-30T20:22:21 <+Steffanx> Steffan was taken
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2012-01-31T14:54:10 < corecode> flyback: a bit expensive?
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2012-01-31T22:04:19 < karlp> hmm, sparkfun box arrived, tax charged on the full $100, as expected
2012-01-31T22:04:27 < karlp> but I havent finished my radio project!
2012-01-31T22:05:44 <+Steffanx> Weird karlp ..
2012-01-31T22:05:57 <+Steffanx> For me they only charged for the 'economical' value
2012-01-31T22:06:35 <+Steffanx> The last two years
2012-01-31T22:06:45 <+Steffanx> Shipped with fedex
2012-01-31T22:06:52 < karlp> yeah, iceland is awesome.
2012-01-31T22:07:38 < karlp> I could have attempted to fight it, but it's rarely worth it, and i'm off on holidays next week, don't want it going back or anything
2012-01-31T22:08:47 < karlp> hmm, internet is slow for another day, I guess that means I should work on the spi shit again then.
2012-01-31T22:08:53 <+Steffanx> ;:P
2012-01-31T22:09:17 < karlp> (we downloaded a little much this month, throttled to 5k/sec ou tof iceland)
2012-01-31T22:09:21 <+Steffanx> Haha
2012-01-31T22:09:31 <+Steffanx> We don't have that here.. we have FUP
2012-01-31T22:09:35 <+Steffanx> With is like .. limitless
2012-01-31T22:09:45 < karlp> fup?
2012-01-31T22:09:50 <+Steffanx> Fair use policy
2012-01-31T22:10:02 < karlp> don't worry, it will come :)
2012-01-31T22:10:28 < karlp> even america has been bringing in bandwidth based charging rather than connection speed based charging.
2012-01-31T22:11:03 <+Steffanx> Nah.. the 3G etc. is @#$%ˆ&*  expensive here :P
2012-01-31T22:11:23 < karlp> 3g here is pretty cheap, relatively.
2012-01-31T22:11:32 < karlp> plenty of people use a 3g modem as their home internet connection.
2012-01-31T22:16:12 -!- Tom_L [~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has quit []
2012-01-31T22:23:03 < karlp> I get so confused with step and next sometimes.
2012-01-31T22:26:17 <+Steffanx> Here you pay like !@#$% too much for 500mb
2012-01-31T22:26:32 < karlp> anyone know why -O0 causes memcpy to not exist? I can only compile with -O1,2,3,s?
2012-01-31T22:29:35 < zippe> karlp: What do you mean by "not exist"?
2012-01-31T22:29:41 < zippe> At -O1 and above, memcpy is a builtin
2012-01-31T22:30:08 < zippe> karlp: Are you not linking the C library?
2012-01-31T22:30:19 < karlp> I guess not?
2012-01-31T22:30:42 < zippe> Check for -nostdlib in your linker invocation
2012-01-31T22:30:48 < karlp> normally I compile with -Os, but I was getting a fe things optimized out in gdb, wanted to use -O0 instead.
2012-01-31T22:31:07 < karlp> of course, I'm not at -O1, and code that I remember not working the other day is now working perfectly.
2012-01-31T22:31:18 < zippe> Yeah, that part I hate quite a lot
2012-01-31T22:32:39 < karlp> yeah -nostdlib.
2012-01-31T22:33:01 < karlp> if I take that out, it will be linking in newlib I presume? (I'm using summon-arm-toolchain)
2012-01-31T22:37:38 < zippe> Yes
2012-01-31T22:37:48 < zippe> You probably need -lnosys as well
2012-01-31T22:38:19 < zippe> Otherwise newlib will expect you to provide some basic "system calls"
2012-01-31T22:43:25 < karlp> ahh, that's good to know.
2012-01-31T22:43:36 < karlp> I couldn't work out why some people seemed to have newlib working without providing syscalls
2012-01-31T22:43:54 < karlp> so -nostlib means no. well, no stdlib :) so nothing from newlib, or even glibc at all.
2012-01-31T22:44:19 < karlp> and -nosys is what, just a flag for the arm toolchain to tell newlib that syscalls don't exist?
2012-01-31T22:44:33 < zyp> -lnosys as in link with libnosys
2012-01-31T22:45:10 < karlp> ah yeah, there's an l there.
2012-01-31T22:45:13 < zyp> which is probably a lib providing dummy-syscalls
2012-01-31T22:45:25 < karlp> that's a nice missing piece in my worldview of this stuff.
2012-01-31T22:45:32 < karlp> thank you z[.*]p
2012-01-31T22:45:40 < karlp> how did you two end up with such similar nicks?
2012-01-31T22:47:03 < zyp> the more awesome you are, the later in the alphabet your nick starts
2012-01-31T22:47:17 < zyp> or was it the other way around?
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2012-01-31T22:49:38 < karlp> hehe
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2012-01-31T22:50:53 < zippe> karlp: The embedded targets never use glibc
2012-01-31T22:51:01 < zippe> glibc assumes linux
2012-01-31T22:51:25 < zippe> Technically, it would be zippé
2012-01-31T22:51:42 < zippe> But the 7-bit ascii fascists aren't always kind about that
2012-01-31T22:52:35 < zippe> And zyp is probably one of those Nigerian 409-style ripoff artists.  Don't be surprised if you get an email supposedly from me about a large fortune in cash I need to move quickly out of some backwater nation
2012-01-31T22:53:03 < zyp> :D
2012-01-31T22:53:39 < karlp> well yeah, for the -nostdlib, I just meant, that's a common gcc flag to not link *libc, be that newlib, glibc, eglibc, blah
2012-01-31T22:53:47 <+Steffanx> No that's my zippe
2012-01-31T22:54:00 <+Steffanx> *me
2012-01-31T22:54:10 < karlp> stupid radios.  unplug, replug, get different interrupts.
2012-01-31T22:54:15 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-01-31T22:54:19 < karlp> still working, but now it's showing me the tx acks.
2012-01-31T22:54:43 < karlp> I don't like code that has _delay_xx(200); around chipselect gpio toggles
2012-01-31T22:55:05 <+Steffanx> :S
2012-01-31T22:55:44 < karlp> the avr was just slow enough that running as fast as it could just worked all the time.
2012-01-31T22:55:55 < karlp> I think this L152 is just too fast for it's own good.
2012-01-31T22:56:13 < karlp> with a bit more calculation and bit more datasheet reading I should be ok though.
2012-01-31T22:58:49 < zippe> karlp: which radios are you working with?
2012-01-31T22:59:33 < karlp> mrf24j40 modules.
2012-01-31T22:59:45 < karlp> I've had them working with avrs for a few months,
2012-01-31T23:00:00 < karlp> but using them as my training wheels project for moving on to stm32
2012-01-31T23:02:27 < karlp> turning this: https://github.com/karlp/karlnet/blob/master/common/lib_mrf24j.c into https://github.com/karlp/kkstm32_base/tree/master/example/32l_mrf24j40
2012-01-31T23:03:48 <+Steffanx> You didn't even make nice define's for the registers karlp :(
2012-01-31T23:04:38 < karlp> what sort of defines?
2012-01-31T23:05:02 < karlp> yeah, I did the oldschool #define regname regnumber
2012-01-31T23:05:05 <+Steffanx> I mean for the bits :P
2012-01-31T23:05:09 <+Steffanx> Sorry
2012-01-31T23:05:26 < karlp> I've done some of them.
2012-01-31T23:05:36 <+Steffanx> I even did that for all of the nrf24l0x registers
2012-01-31T23:06:17 < karlp> some of it is a case of, "fuck yeah, it's finally working, let's move on to the whole purpose of using this"
2012-01-31T23:06:37 < karlp> also, I started that avr project back when I hadn't been using C for a few years.
2012-01-31T23:07:25 < karlp> excuses excuses :)
2012-01-31T23:11:21 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-01-31T23:11:27 <+Steffanx> Acceptable excuses
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2012-01-31T23:14:50 < karlp> thank you :)
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2012-01-31T23:35:02 < karlp> zippe: if I use -lnosys, and take out the -nostdlib, it starts expecting __bss_start__ and end and _exit to be defined...?
2012-01-31T23:36:08 < karlp> yeah, ok, I fixed my linker scripts for that, but _exit?
2012-01-31T23:39:50 < karlp> hmm, -nostartfiles works.
2012-01-31T23:39:58 < karlp> but... fails when I use anything from stlib
2012-01-31T23:40:06 < karlp> let's shelv stdlib for a little while.
2012-01-31T23:40:15 < karlp> finish up this damn radio driver first :)
2012-01-31T23:44:31 < zippe> _exit should be in nosys
2012-01-31T23:45:14 < zippe> Yeah, it is.  You just need to get the link ordering right
2012-01-31T23:45:44 < karlp> do you happen to know why I might have -nostdinc too?
2012-01-31T23:45:50 < karlp> I've copied this bit from somewhere...
2012-01-31T23:46:23 < zyp> is there a real reason that link order matters, or are just the ld developers lazy?
2012-01-31T23:46:42 < karlp> yeah, it affects aliasing and stuff
2012-01-31T23:46:58 < zyp> how?
2012-01-31T23:47:04 < karlp> probably more, "there were no reasons, there are reasons now, as too much stuff expects it to be that way"
2012-01-31T23:47:10 < karlp> if _exit is defined in multiple objects?
2012-01-31T23:47:53 < zyp> is that a common occurrence?
2012-01-31T23:48:01 < karlp> probably not for sane people?
2012-01-31T23:48:17 < zyp> exactly
2012-01-31T23:48:28 < karlp> zippe: $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $^ -o $@ $(LDFLAGS) is the single line for the make,
2012-01-31T23:48:40 < karlp> and -lnosys is the first in LDFLAGS
2012-01-31T23:49:19 < zyp> I don't see why link order should matter as long as there is exactly one instance of each symbol
2012-01-31T23:49:35 < karlp> I wish it didn't either,
2012-01-31T23:49:40 < karlp> oh,
2012-01-31T23:49:52 < karlp> it also matters because in a list of  objects like a.o, b.o, c.o,
2012-01-31T23:50:01 < karlp> if b.o refers to something in c.o, it isn't found.
2012-01-31T23:50:09 < karlp> at least, that's what happens.
2012-01-31T23:50:13 < karlp> should it? god knows.
2012-01-31T23:50:27 < karlp> I really don't know if anything _requires_ certain orders
2012-01-31T23:50:49 < zyp> I worked on some cross platform stuff during the weekend, compiled fine on linux and os x, but mingw complained until I reordered the linking
2012-01-31T23:51:20 < karlp> yeah, and the stlink texane code apparently didn't compile on osx until -lusb was put last...
2012-01-31T23:51:47 < karlp> zippe: http://www.pastebay.org/306591 if your're curious
--- Log closed Wed Feb 01 00:00:35 2012