--- Log opened Wed Feb 01 00:00:35 2012
2012-02-01T00:16:33 < karlp> man, datasheet says it only needs 50ns hold on CS before SCk.
2012-02-01T00:16:39 < karlp> sure doesn't seem to work for me that fast.
2012-02-01T00:16:51 < karlp> that's 20Mhz, my processor is only running at 16mhz
2012-02-01T00:19:24 < karlp> I should fix up my _delay_us bit...
2012-02-01T00:20:28 < karlp> sure doesn't seem to work that fast.
2012-02-01T00:25:13 < karlp> ok, 15us seems to work. that's a hell of a lot better than the 2ms I was waiting before.
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2012-02-01T01:10:14 < karlp> could i tbe that I'm using newlib 1.19, not 1.20?
2012-02-01T01:10:23 < karlp> the 1.20 release notes just say, "arm fixes"
2012-02-01T01:37:21 < zippe> karlp: Add the -v option to gcc to get it to print the actual internal calls
2012-02-01T01:37:31 < zippe> Look at what it's passing to ld/gold/collect2
2012-02-01T01:37:58 < zippe> I don't even know what "libg" is
2012-02-01T01:38:46 < zippe> Oh, the debug version of libc
2012-02-01T01:38:54 < zippe> try -nostdlib -lc -lnosys
2012-02-01T01:39:25 < zippe> I'm betting that the implicit -lc at the end of the link line is getting you
2012-02-01T01:41:07 < zippe> hmm, looks like you can avoid -nostdlib and just make sure that -lc -lnosys are listed after your other objects and libraries
2012-02-01T01:41:34 < zippe> -lm -lc -lgcc -lnosys seems to be the canonical order
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2012-02-01T02:17:33 < karlp> http://www.pastebay.org/306608 is with https://github.com/karlp/kkstm32_base/tree/master/example/32l_mrf24j40
2012-02-01T02:18:00 < karlp> I just commend tout the -nostdlib and -nostdinc and added -lm -lc -lgcc -lnosys to LDflags,
2012-02-01T02:18:06 < karlp> still complains about _exit
2012-02-01T02:18:15 < karlp> anyway, I have to get to bed, I'll try again tomorrow
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2012-02-01T14:59:05 < Laurenceb> whats my alter ego doing
2012-02-01T15:01:16 < Laurenceb> is it possible to use DFU without accessing any boot pins?
2012-02-01T15:02:30 < zyp> I guess you could jump to the bootloader from your code
2012-02-01T15:04:04 < Laurenceb> it behaves the same as serial bootloader?
2012-02-01T15:04:11 < Laurenceb> then how the hell does maple work
2012-02-01T15:04:24 < zyp> oh, maple have their own bootloader in flash
2012-02-01T15:04:30 < Laurenceb> ahi see
2012-02-01T15:04:37 < Laurenceb> cool
2012-02-01T15:04:42 < zyp> there is no DFU bootloader in ROM in F103
2012-02-01T15:04:45 < Laurenceb> ill stick it on my datalogger XD
2012-02-01T15:04:48 < Laurenceb> oh
2012-02-01T15:05:16 < Laurenceb> just on F2? or what?
2012-02-01T15:05:26 < Laurenceb> the connectivity line F1 or something
2012-02-01T15:05:34 < zyp> yes
2012-02-01T15:05:39 < Laurenceb> i see
2012-02-01T15:06:31 < Laurenceb> so presumably maple use some special makefile or something?
2012-02-01T15:06:40 < Laurenceb> or is it even in the linker script?
2012-02-01T15:08:25 < Laurenceb> so it boots to 0x80000000 then the bootloader starts main code execution, which means code must start at 0x80000000+bootloader size?
2012-02-01T15:08:37 < Laurenceb> so its presumably in the linker?
2012-02-01T15:15:31 < zyp> it's in the linker script
2012-02-01T15:16:18 < zyp> https://github.com/leaflabs/libmaple/blob/master/support/ld/maple/flash.ld
2012-02-01T15:16:40 < zyp> looks like they reserve first 0x5000 for bootloader
2012-02-01T15:19:12 < karlp> there's a nice document on which hardware bootloaders are available on which chips,
2012-02-01T15:19:24 < karlp> but as I understood it, dfu was an option on all chips that had usb support.
2012-02-01T15:19:28 < karlp> is that not f103?
2012-02-01T15:19:44 < karlp> or did I miss that in the document?
2012-02-01T15:19:53 < zyp> IIRC bootloader does not support DFU even on F103 with USB
2012-02-01T15:20:58 < karlp> AN2606...
2012-02-01T15:22:30 < karlp> what's the other F1 with usb?
2012-02-01T15:22:34 < karlp> 102? or 105 or something?
2012-02-01T15:24:42 < zyp> F105 and F107
2012-02-01T15:24:56 < zyp> I don't remember the particulars, I've only used F103
2012-02-01T15:28:10 < karlp> hmm, can't find the one I was thinking of AN2606 isn't it.
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2012-02-01T17:29:33 < ratatata> nu
2012-02-01T17:31:32 < ratatata> http://pastebin.com/xmJXDBXV
2012-02-01T17:31:44 < ratatata> i get this when i try to make stlink
2012-02-01T17:32:00 < ratatata> it says i donthave libusb
2012-02-01T17:32:07 < ratatata> but i instaled it
2012-02-01T17:35:16 < jpa-> install libusb-dev
2012-02-01T17:35:34 < jpa-> and pkgconfig
2012-02-01T17:37:53 < ratatata> libusb-dev is already the newest version.
2012-02-01T17:38:31 < ratatata> Unable to locate package pkgconfig
2012-02-01T17:39:19 < ratatata> ok
2012-02-01T17:39:27 < ratatata> it was pkg-config
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2012-02-01T18:24:48 < ratatata> how can i install libsg2 in debian ?
2012-02-01T18:37:01 < karlp> don't!
2012-02-01T18:37:08 < karlp> you're reading far too old instructions!
2012-02-01T18:37:17 < karlp> what source instructions are you reading?
2012-02-01T18:54:51 < ratatata> this one https://github.com/texane/stlink/blob/master/doc/tutorial/tutorial.pdf?raw=true
2012-02-01T18:55:31 < ratatata> oh no
2012-02-01T18:55:34 < ratatata> not this one
2012-02-01T18:55:40 < ratatata> a bit older
2012-02-01T19:00:09 < karlp> yeah, follow the newer one :)
2012-02-01T19:04:04 < Laurenceb> http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=44150
2012-02-01T19:04:07 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2012-02-01T19:15:01 < ratatata> at last
2012-02-01T19:15:07 < ratatata> both leds blinking
2012-02-01T19:15:08 < ratatata> :))
2012-02-01T19:15:45 < ratatata> thanks karlp
2012-02-01T19:19:28 < Tom_itx> what an annoying nick
2012-02-01T19:20:34 < Laurenceb> tatatatata
2012-02-01T19:21:04 < Laurenceb> while(1){printf("ta";)}
2012-02-01T19:22:13 < Tom_itx> compiler warning
2012-02-01T19:22:40 < Laurenceb> ; fail
2012-02-01T19:24:13 < ratatata> and the nick with your first name and first letter of last name is not annoying
2012-02-01T19:24:15 < ratatata> ok
2012-02-01T19:24:16 < ratatata> :)
2012-02-01T19:25:43 < Tom_itx> more 'human'
2012-02-01T19:27:16 < ratatata> 'more human' is not fun
2012-02-01T19:28:47 < karlp> more human than human...
2012-02-01T19:29:13 < Laurenceb> lol
2012-02-01T19:29:40  * karlp cues the strobe lights
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2012-02-01T19:40:58 < jpa-> if he wants to be a pokemon, atleast he should spell it properly
2012-02-01T19:45:45 < karlp> in his own words, it's short for ak47ratatatata
2012-02-01T19:45:47 < karlp> or something.
2012-02-01T19:46:20 < karlp> apart from the "nu" every 12 hours or so,  so what? it's just an irc nick
2012-02-01T20:07:56 < eruif> karlp: you're on the STLink dev team ?
2012-02-01T20:10:44 < jpa-> is there a team? :)
2012-02-01T20:15:04 -!- eruif_ [~eruif@unaffiliated/eruif] has joined ##stm32
2012-02-01T20:15:15 < eruif_> what did I miss ?
2012-02-01T20:16:44 < jpa-> nothing
2012-02-01T20:16:57 < jpa-> 20:10:44 < jpa-> is there a team? :)
2012-02-01T20:17:10 -!- eruif [~eruif@unaffiliated/eruif] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2012-02-01T20:17:17 < eruif_> why do you say that ?
2012-02-01T20:18:10 < jpa-> there is a bunch of people working on stlink linux support, but not very much coordination AFAIK
2012-02-01T20:18:56 < eruif_> is there a linux stlink or do you run it in wine ?
2012-02-01T20:18:59 < karlp> that's about right. (only take linux off the list)
2012-02-01T20:19:10 < karlp> stlink is the name for both st's windows only tool
2012-02-01T20:19:30 < karlp> and also the linux/osx tool from github.com/texane/stlink that some of us were talking about
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2012-02-01T20:21:04 < eruif_> karlp: how did  you develop this ? is it reverse-engineered ?
2012-02-01T20:21:17 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-02-01T20:21:18 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-01.html
2012-02-01T20:21:24 < jpa-> it just fell down from the heaven :)
2012-02-01T20:21:30 < jpa-> i guess it was mostly reverse-engineered
2012-02-01T20:22:04 < jpa-> some of it is original research, such as exactly how many ways have ST broken the mass storage standard
2012-02-01T20:22:06 < karlp> reverse engineered for a lot of it, then just the flash programming manuals and so on to work out what to do.
2012-02-01T20:24:00 < eruif_> impressive
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2012-02-01T21:16:51 <+Steffanx> Argh.. I'm stupid
2012-02-01T21:17:08 <+Steffanx> Never order something when you're sleepy
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2012-02-01T21:29:23 <+Steffanx> Hizua
2012-02-01T21:29:44 <+izua> good evening
2012-02-01T21:30:00 <+Steffanx> Still frozen?
2012-02-01T21:30:16 <+izua> haha
2012-02-01T21:30:17 <+izua> nah
2012-02-01T21:30:22 <+izua> got hired this week
2012-02-01T21:30:33 <+izua> and they have a mural boiler
2012-02-01T21:30:47 <+Steffanx> Hired as .. road cleaner or whatever it's called?
2012-02-01T21:30:59 <+izua> (well.. they had a non-working one until i came along :D)
2012-02-01T21:31:04 <+izua> so i'm just leeching their heat
2012-02-01T21:31:10 <+izua> huh no
2012-02-01T21:31:14 <+izua> some embedded shit
2012-02-01T21:31:19 <+Steffanx> Nice
2012-02-01T21:31:29 <+izua> yep :D
2012-02-01T21:31:38 <+izua> i wouldn't have bet i'd find such a position before 35
2012-02-01T21:33:47 <+Steffanx> Is it that hard to find something like that in Romania?
2012-02-01T21:33:51 <+Steffanx> Aren't you still a student?
2012-02-01T21:34:44 <+izua> it's hard to find pretty much any position
2012-02-01T21:35:13 <+izua> and it requires 'provable' experience
2012-02-01T21:35:33 <+izua> as in, not happy clients and actual products, but uni diplomas and previous employers
2012-02-01T21:35:42 <+izua> yeah, still a student
2012-02-01T21:42:50 <+Steffanx> So when are you finished izua ?
2012-02-01T21:43:08 <+izua> this year, hopefully
2012-02-01T21:43:30 <+izua> i have a teacher who would kill to hold me back a few more years ._.
2012-02-01T21:43:47 <+Steffanx> :S
2012-02-01T21:45:07 <+izua> are you still in school?
2012-02-01T21:45:58 <+izua> uni/etc
2012-02-01T21:47:59 <+izua> Steffanx: ^
2012-02-01T21:48:09 <+Steffanx> Nope
2012-02-01T21:49:35 <+izua> you took several classes in a semester ? (i recal lyou saying that anemometer thing was for school, hmph)
2012-02-01T21:49:45 <+izua> here we have some epic laws
2012-02-01T21:50:05 <+izua> taking classes gives you credits, since that's a must for UE memebership
2012-02-01T21:50:06 <+Steffanx> It was my last year project izua ..
2012-02-01T21:50:36 <+izua> but you aren't allowed to move them around. you must take them in what they decide to be the "correct" order, during exactly 4 years.
2012-02-01T21:50:47 <+izua> i recall it was a school project :P
2012-02-01T21:51:12 <+izua> so are you planning on getting a further degree? masters? phd? whatever you guys have?
2012-02-01T21:51:14 <+Steffanx> Here it's just.. do everything they say you to do
2012-02-01T21:51:27 <+Steffanx> Incl. two times an internship
2012-02-01T21:51:41 <+Steffanx> The only choice you have is for the final year
2012-02-01T21:51:48 <+Steffanx> Pretty boring
2012-02-01T21:52:01 <+Steffanx> I'd like to go for a master
2012-02-01T21:52:20 < karlp> to hell with further education.
2012-02-01T21:52:36 < karlp> unless you like academia and living poorly.
2012-02-01T21:52:42 < karlp> which is fine, if that's what you like
2012-02-01T21:52:48 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-01T21:53:06 <+Steffanx> When I have the choice between work and a study.. i know what i prefer :P
2012-02-01T21:53:17 < karlp> if I go and do a masters or phd in engineering, I' won't earn enough more to pay for the time of doing the degree
2012-02-01T21:53:26 < karlp> work is way less work that study ever was :)
2012-02-01T21:53:26 <+izua> you can't earn a buck doing something, even if you have experience in that field, without an actual paper saying you wasted 4 years with officials on that subject :P
2012-02-01T21:53:33 < karlp> even now, when I actually work at work :)
2012-02-01T21:53:52 <+Steffanx> Here it's ~1700 euro/year (excl. books etc.) karlp ..
2012-02-01T21:54:01 <+izua> Steffanx: that's retarded.
2012-02-01T21:54:04 <+Steffanx> That's not that bad
2012-02-01T21:54:05 < karlp> I don't mean the cost of the degree,
2012-02-01T21:54:17 < karlp> I mean the missed income, vs the expected future increased income.
2012-02-01T21:54:17 <+Steffanx> Ah, the work of the study
2012-02-01T21:54:18 <+izua> (the school "do as they want you to" part)
2012-02-01T21:54:22 <+Steffanx> I never had a problem with that
2012-02-01T21:54:35 <+izua> why have a credit system if you can't shuffle classes around?
2012-02-01T21:54:49 <+izua> i want to take 4 years in 3 semesters. y u no letme?
2012-02-01T21:55:22  * izua usually can ace or at least get 90% on an exam if he attends all the course's lectures
2012-02-01T21:55:30 <+izua> studying is for the weaklings
2012-02-01T21:55:36 <+Steffanx> Work is boring
2012-02-01T21:55:45 <+izua> no it isn't
2012-02-01T21:55:49 <+Steffanx> Yes it is
2012-02-01T21:56:14 < karlp> get a better job :)
2012-02-01T21:56:15 <+izua> i have a stk600, a dragon andd a boxfull of sd cards :D
2012-02-01T21:56:20 <+Steffanx> Every job is boring karlp
2012-02-01T21:56:27 < karlp> whatever :)
2012-02-01T21:56:30 <+izua> and today i played with petit fatfs.
2012-02-01T21:56:40 <+Steffanx> "Do this and that.. and have it finished before this and that" ..
2012-02-01T21:56:40 <+izua> pretty not boring? :D
2012-02-01T21:56:44 < karlp> study has borig bits too, work just pays better.
2012-02-01T21:56:51 < karlp> hah, have it finished by blah!
2012-02-01T21:56:57 <+Steffanx> Who needs money
2012-02-01T21:57:03 < karlp> the deadlines at university were wayyyyy stricter than at work
2012-02-01T21:57:15 < karlp> money lets me do other things I like, other than just work and study
2012-02-01T21:57:25 < karlp> money buys me toys
2012-02-01T21:57:26 <+izua> heh
2012-02-01T21:57:27 <+Steffanx> True, but … I can work on it whenever i want
2012-02-01T21:57:31 <+izua> life is either giving time for money
2012-02-01T21:57:32 < karlp> and the freedom to not worry about money
2012-02-01T21:57:36 <+izua> or giving money to save time
2012-02-01T21:57:44 <+Steffanx> I don't worry about money at all :)
2012-02-01T21:57:49 <+izua> uni is giving away money so you can give away time
2012-02-01T21:57:49 <+Steffanx> I just don't spend that much
2012-02-01T21:58:08  * izua doesn't spend much either
2012-02-01T21:58:11 <+Steffanx> karlp, I work 3 days/week so I can work on my hobby bobby stuff the other 4 days :P
2012-02-01T21:58:15  * Steffanx loves that
2012-02-01T21:58:17 <+izua> but i still needed a job
2012-02-01T21:58:23 <+izua> Steffanx: what?
2012-02-01T21:58:29 <+izua> moderation?
2012-02-01T21:58:42 <+izua> ah, your work schedule:P
2012-02-01T21:58:43 <+Steffanx> That.. work 3 days/week, hobby bobby the other 4 days
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2012-02-01T22:00:00 < karlp> yeah, my old job I worked 90%, and did hobbies and slept in the other days
2012-02-01T22:00:05 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-02-01T22:00:09 < karlp> now, I get paid to do what I did in my hobby time before
2012-02-01T22:00:26 <+Steffanx> Yeah, maybe i should find me a more interesting job :P
2012-02-01T22:00:28 < karlp> and now we've got some more people I can go back to 90% again too.
2012-02-01T22:00:33 < karlp> yeah, like we said in the beginning
2012-02-01T22:00:38 < karlp> if your job sucks, get a better job :)
2012-02-01T22:00:45 <+Steffanx> Nah, it doesn't suck
2012-02-01T22:00:54 <+Steffanx> One thing they made does
2012-02-01T22:00:55 <+Steffanx> :(
2012-02-01T22:01:22 <+Steffanx> The product that's the most important part of the company is .. buggy
2012-02-01T22:02:09 <+Steffanx> Work is always boring
2012-02-01T22:02:10 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-02-01T22:02:19 <+Steffanx> Just give me a few million and i know what to do :)
2012-02-01T22:02:34 <+izua> hookers and blackjack
2012-02-01T22:02:39 <+izua> infact, forget the job
2012-02-01T22:02:48 <+Steffanx> No, hobby bobby projects.. :)
2012-02-01T22:02:59 <+izua> heh
2012-02-01T22:03:12 <+izua> anything worth mentioning?
2012-02-01T22:03:16  * izua goes into idea theft mode
2012-02-01T22:03:26 <+izua> ^W^W^W^W^W
2012-02-01T22:03:36 <+Steffanx> I 'design' too much and never finish anything
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2012-02-01T22:11:49 <+Steffanx> I still want to redesign that sonic anemometer izua
2012-02-01T22:11:59 <+Steffanx> This time stm32f4 based .. some more horse power
2012-02-01T22:17:29 <+Steffanx> And a better analog part
2012-02-01T22:18:18 < karlp> what was the old one based on?
2012-02-01T22:18:47 <+Steffanx> stm32f100rb
2012-02-01T22:18:48 <+Steffanx> iirc
2012-02-01T22:18:53 <+Steffanx> 24MHz
2012-02-01T22:19:13 < karlp> what changed in the analog front end?
2012-02-01T22:19:27 <+Steffanx> Nothing yet
2012-02-01T22:19:36 <+Steffanx> That's why i have to redesign it
2012-02-01T22:19:41 <+izua> do you plan on going 3d?
2012-02-01T22:19:43 < karlp> ah, I thought you meant the f4 had a better analog part
2012-02-01T22:19:56 <+Steffanx> No, i meant the analog part of the sonic anemometer
2012-02-01T22:20:04 <+Steffanx> I see that wasn't very clear
2012-02-01T22:20:24 <+Steffanx> Maybe izua
2012-02-01T22:22:01 <+Steffanx> That step is easy when the analog part is 'perfect' izua
2012-02-01T22:23:25 <+izua> there is no perfection :P
2012-02-01T22:24:08 <+Steffanx> True, but the old version wasn't that good
2012-02-01T22:25:26 <+Steffanx> I still kinda sucks stm32fxx don't have a super fast comparator :(
2012-02-01T22:25:55 <+Steffanx> The last time i used a fast external comparator from TI and an external interrupt on the ARM
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2012-02-01T22:31:50 < karlp> Steffanx: do any of TI's arm chips have a groovy analog front end?
2012-02-01T22:32:07 < karlp> I know a lot of their msp range has some much fancier analog sections than pics and avrs
2012-02-01T22:32:10 <+Steffanx> I've no idea
2012-02-01T22:32:30 < karlp> shouldn't be _too_ terrible to use their parts ifyou're comfortable with the stm32 now?
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2012-02-01T22:33:48 <+Steffanx> I just want to use f4 karlp :)
2012-02-01T22:34:04 <+Steffanx> I'm not comfortable with stm32 at all
2012-02-01T22:34:22 <+Steffanx> You don't get 'comfortable' with STM32 when you use the standard peripherhal libs imho
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2012-02-01T22:35:20 < karlp> hehe
2012-02-01T22:35:30 < karlp> you get a bit more comfortable maybe.
2012-02-01T22:35:38  * karlp shrugs,
2012-02-01T22:35:45 < karlp> the periphs are the bits you need to learn I guess,
2012-02-01T22:35:47 < karlp> not the core,
2012-02-01T22:35:53 < karlp> and the periphs are the diffs
2012-02-01T22:36:36 <+Steffanx> So this time i don't want to use the peripheral libs
2012-02-01T22:39:17 <+Steffanx> I just ordered a stm32f4discovery .. i just wasn't awake yet
2012-02-01T22:39:20 <+Steffanx> so i ordered two :S
2012-02-01T22:39:43 < karlp> you got the rare stm32f8!
2012-02-01T22:39:46 < karlp> lucky you!
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2012-02-01T22:39:54 <+Steffanx> f8?
2012-02-01T22:40:08 <+Steffanx> Ah. :P
2012-02-01T22:40:11 < karlp>  :)
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2012-02-01T22:40:27 <+Steffanx> I tried to order a cpld board + stm32f4discovery instead of two times a stm32f4 :( .. but i think the cart changed when i logged in :(
2012-02-01T22:41:19 < karlp> so, book hostels and and some trips for my holiday, try and clean up my outstanding stlink patches for pulling, try and get newlib to give me printf and friends, or play with the m3 core cycle counter to get a better idea on counting usecs?
2012-02-01T22:41:28 < karlp> or just get the hell away from the pc and head out for beers?
2012-02-01T22:41:37 <+Steffanx> The last thing
2012-02-01T22:41:39 <+Steffanx> Where do you go?
2012-02-01T22:41:56 <+Steffanx> For your holiday trip
2012-02-01T22:41:58 < karlp> oh, I think the last one will happen anyway, mor ea matter of whihc of the first ones to try and do before I go out for beers.
2012-02-01T22:42:14 < karlp> showing the girlfriend australia, and visiting some friends for their weddings.
2012-02-01T22:42:43 <+Steffanx> Australia, that's always nice
2012-02-01T22:42:47 <+Steffanx> At least, i think it is
2012-02-01T22:42:52 < karlp> almost as good as iceland :)
2012-02-01T22:43:05 <+Steffanx> Iceland is better? Nicer?
2012-02-01T22:43:17 <+Steffanx> The Netherlands is quite boring actually. Way too flat
2012-02-01T22:43:20 < karlp> well, it's where I live now, and it was by choice, so , works for me :)
2012-02-01T22:43:29 < karlp> netherleands is fun for a weekend :)
2012-02-01T22:43:36 < karlp> maybe longer if you like cycling on flat land
2012-02-01T22:43:43 <+Steffanx> Not when you live there
2012-02-01T22:43:47 < karlp> too flat for me.
2012-02-01T22:43:47 <+Steffanx> here
2012-02-01T22:44:33 <+Steffanx> So anyway started on the swv yet karlp ?
2012-02-01T22:44:40 < karlp> nope :)
2012-02-01T22:44:53 < karlp> those other things in the list above were all happening first :)
2012-02-01T22:45:02 <+Steffanx> The first thing when i have my board is to try that :)
2012-02-01T22:45:16 < karlp> go for it :) I'm sure not going to stop you
2012-02-01T22:45:21 <+Steffanx> And maybe make some logs
2012-02-01T22:45:25 < karlp> I haven't even tried writing to the swv port in the core yet.
2012-02-01T22:45:35 < karlp> was struggling to fix the spi timing for the radio, but that's now working.
2012-02-01T22:49:23 <+Steffanx> So when are you back?
2012-02-01T22:49:58 <+Steffanx> I should be finished before that
2012-02-01T22:50:08 <+Steffanx> It
2012-02-01T22:51:38 < karlp> good :)
2012-02-01T22:51:43 < karlp> 7 weeks.
2012-02-01T22:51:45 < karlp> end of march
2012-02-01T22:52:06 <+Steffanx> Should be possible, lol
2012-02-01T22:56:25 < karlp> I'll look forward to it!
2012-02-01T22:57:20 <+Steffanx> Please, don't.
2012-02-01T22:59:17 < karlp> ;)
2012-02-01T22:59:23 < karlp> who changed stlink to use pkgconfig?
2012-02-01T23:00:11 < karlp> hmm, fair enough I guess.
2012-02-01T23:02:25 <+Steffanx> Isn't that a good thing?
2012-02-01T23:03:47 < karlp> yeah, red herring.
2012-02-01T23:04:03 < karlp> it made the build a bit noisier, I was seeing compiler warnings I didn't think I was seeing in my branch,
2012-02-01T23:04:25 < karlp> I guess pkg-config makes it work better in simulated build roots and so on.
2012-02-01T23:05:05 <+Steffanx> Now it even builds for me without any hassle
2012-02-01T23:06:58 <+Steffanx> I like 'warnings' like "format ‘%3u’ expects type ‘unsigned int’, but argument 3 has type ‘size_t’" :)
2012-02-01T23:17:03 < karlp> that was fixed in the pull I just submitted :)
2012-02-01T23:17:21 < karlp> what did you need to do before to build?
2012-02-01T23:17:34 < karlp> does osx tools not really like just -lusb-1.0 ?
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2012-02-01T23:26:19 < karlp> anyone feel like listing off any more target chips that have been used with stlink?
2012-02-01T23:31:31 < karlp> anyone got any comments/changes they want in the pdf tutorial?
2012-02-01T23:31:37 < karlp> (if anyone even reads that?)
2012-02-01T23:43:48 < karlp> ok, let's test how self contained I kept my changes, and see how well this merges...
2012-02-01T23:45:52 < karlp> anyone know how to merge just a certain subdirectory?  short of doing a whole lot of cherry picks?
2012-02-01T23:59:47 < karlp> I guess I could cherry-pick the lot into a private branch, then rebase and squish them all?
--- Day changed Thu Feb 02 2012
2012-02-02T00:00:35 <+Steffanx> No beer this night/evening karlp ? :p
2012-02-02T00:05:19 < karlp> for hh in $(cat commits.needed.forexamples.reverse | cut -d' ' -f1) ; do git cherry-pick $hh; done
2012-02-02T00:05:23 < karlp> it's still early :)
2012-02-02T00:05:36 < karlp> combined with git log --oneline --reverse origin/master ..f549628 example > commits.needed.forexamples.reverse
2012-02-02T00:05:46 < karlp> now I just need to squish and rebase and test the commits bit.
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2012-02-02T00:32:22 < karlp> mofo, that was meant to make me a nice clean base, but it rebased the shit out of everything, and made me diverging commits :(
2012-02-02T00:32:26 < karlp> bleh
2012-02-02T00:42:57 < karlp> I think I should have rebased in my own branch, but the idea there was to not  break other people's code.
2012-02-02T00:55:56 < karlp> man, I think I've totally destroyed my history now.
2012-02-02T00:56:01 < karlp> oh well. fuck it.
2012-02-02T00:56:11 < karlp> might just toss my own and rebase on texane now.
2012-02-02T00:56:14 < karlp> got the important ones merged in.
2012-02-02T01:15:06 < Laurenceb_> has anyone taken a look at SWV yet?
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2012-02-02T16:22:24 < Thorn> looks like ft-prog is buggy
2012-02-02T16:24:01 < Thorn> when I read out the eeprom in my ft2232h device it shows garbage instead of manufacturer and description strings
2012-02-02T16:24:30 < Thorn> my own program that uses d2xx displays those properly
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2012-02-02T17:17:28 < mansfeld> hey folks
2012-02-02T17:18:05 < mansfeld> I've got a bit of a problem with my stm32w device... I'm just blinking an LED, but for some reason, it works fine when I've just programmed and launched it
2012-02-02T17:18:27 < mansfeld> then when I reset it by cycling power, two of the colours don't work (i've got green on one pin, blue on another and red on another)
2012-02-02T17:18:34 < mansfeld> and blue and red don't work
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2012-02-02T17:30:58 <+Steffanx> nu
2012-02-02T17:38:14 < ratatata> nu
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2012-02-02T18:22:48 < karlp> mansfeld: sounds like something in your startup code isn't being setup properly?
2012-02-02T18:23:00 < karlp> and maybe the programmer is doing something for you?
2012-02-02T18:23:15 < mansfeld> karlp: maybe, but I can't tell what..
2012-02-02T18:25:11 < mansfeld> I did setup the port directions (even tried doing it several times) but it only works when I reset from the programmer
2012-02-02T18:25:49 < karlp> possibly some clocks aren't turned on?
2012-02-02T18:26:09 < mansfeld> I don't think that should affect the I/O ports
2012-02-02T18:26:37 < mansfeld> it's PORT C, pin 1 works, pins 0 and 2 don't :/
2012-02-02T18:27:30 < karlp> all leds are on portc?
2012-02-02T18:28:49 < mansfeld> oh, hmm
2012-02-02T18:29:15 < mansfeld> it just so happens 0 and 2 are jtag pins
2012-02-02T18:29:29 < mansfeld> JRST and JTDO
2012-02-02T18:29:47 < mansfeld> maybe I just need to disable jtag
2012-02-02T18:31:56 < mansfeld> ah well, there's my answer : JTAG mode is enabled after power-up or by forcing NRST low
2012-02-02T18:39:12 < karlp> yay
2012-02-02T18:39:36 < karlp> how are you finding the 32w?
2012-02-02T18:39:46 < karlp> have you used many other 802.15.4 controllers?
2012-02-02T18:47:56 < mansfeld> it's a bit weird I suppose coming from 8 bit microcontrollers (AVR and PIC)
2012-02-02T18:48:18 < mansfeld> but it's kind of neat to get all this stuff in a small package
2012-02-02T18:51:13 < karlp> yeah, my feeling too, this is my first "big boys" mcu
2012-02-02T18:57:24 < Tom_itx> the 68332 was rather fun
2012-02-02T18:58:00 < Tom_itx> i had more time to 'play' back then though
2012-02-02T18:58:44 < Tom_itx> not near the clock speeds though
2012-02-02T18:59:36 < Tom_itx> it was more a controller than a processor though
2012-02-02T19:09:36 < karlp> yeah, hc11s in uni, but then first work related processor was coldfires,
2012-02-02T19:09:47 < karlp> which were replacing 68k stuff at the company I was working for.
2012-02-02T19:10:08 < karlp> everyone loves the 68k now, but they were all pretty quick to dump it back then.
2012-02-02T19:12:22 < Tom_itx> the 32 had the TPU stuff which was fun
2012-02-02T19:12:39 < karlp> what was that?
2012-02-02T19:12:43 < karlp> thead processing unit?
2012-02-02T19:12:48 < Tom_itx> time
2012-02-02T19:12:58 < Tom_itx> with several microcoded functions
2012-02-02T19:13:26 < Tom_itx> ie master/slave pwm, quadrature, 3phase motor etc
2012-02-02T19:13:48 < Tom_itx> i've still got a dozen books covering it
2012-02-02T19:13:58 < Tom_itx> and the 2 pink books for the 11
2012-02-02T19:14:14 < karlp> I don't really miss the hc11.
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2012-02-02T19:15:07 < Tom_itx> i still have a few stashed in a box somewhere
2012-02-02T19:15:40 < Tom_itx> none with buffalo that i'm aware of
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2012-02-03T17:15:06 < Laurenceb> i was thinking, on F4 you could overvoltage the core
2012-02-03T17:15:18 < Laurenceb> might be fun to try overclocking it
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2012-02-04T18:11:18 < ratatata> nu
2012-02-04T18:40:48 < jpa-> mu
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2012-02-04T19:04:04 <+Steffanx> nu
2012-02-04T19:04:59 < karlp> om
2012-02-04T19:05:26 <+Steffanx> I thought you were going for a trip to Australia karlp
2012-02-04T19:08:27 < karlp> tuesday morning
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2012-02-04T19:27:24 < Laurenceb__> your going to bore through the center of the earth?
2012-02-04T19:27:38 < karlp> I hope not! might get a little hot!
2012-02-04T19:31:47 <+Steffanx> It's never hot in iceland
2012-02-04T19:32:06 < BrainDamage> you're kidding right?
2012-02-04T19:32:11 < BrainDamage> it's full of volcanoes
2012-02-04T19:32:21 < Tom_itx> with icecaps
2012-02-04T19:33:26 <+Steffanx> It's called 'ice'land for a reason i guess BrainDamage :P
2012-02-04T19:33:43 < BrainDamage> thing is, there's both fire & ice there
2012-02-04T19:33:57 < BrainDamage> just depends on earth's mood .p
2012-02-04T19:34:00 < Tom_itx> they aim to please all
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2012-02-04T19:44:50 < Laurenceb__> does stm32 slow down slightly at lower voltages?
2012-02-04T19:45:01 < Laurenceb__> due the flash wait states?
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2012-02-04T19:46:42 <+Steffanx> It's all in the ds Laurenceb__  :P
2012-02-04T19:49:18 < karlp> it's called iceland because it's green.
2012-02-04T19:49:21 < karlp> greenland is icy
2012-02-04T19:49:37 <+Steffanx> Aaaaaaah
2012-02-04T19:50:36 < Tom_itx> who the hell thought that up?
2012-02-04T19:50:49 < karlp> 11th century viking PR men
2012-02-04T19:51:01 < karlp> move to greenland! green! wonderful!
2012-02-04T19:51:06 < karlp> don't go to iceland!
2012-02-04T19:52:49 <+Steffanx> No you have that fakcualsaetearyul volcano :P
2012-02-04T19:52:58 < karlp> we have quite a few.
2012-02-04T19:53:01 < karlp> but it's still green.
2012-02-04T19:53:30 <+Steffanx> Hows your icelandic? or whatever tha lagnuages is called
2012-02-04T19:53:32 < karlp> see: green: http://www.tweak.net.au/pics2/2011/September/icelandaussierules/page_1.html
2012-02-04T19:53:44 < karlp> it's alright, grammar still sucks, but not terrible
2012-02-04T19:54:59 < karlp> green + ice? :http://www.tweak.net.au/pics2/2011/July/snaefellsneskata-north/pichtml/web_2011_07_10-16_32_01--img_0039_jfr.html
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2012-02-04T21:16:53 < jpa-> Steffanx: could you please write a nice USB library for STM32?
2012-02-04T21:17:02 < jpa-> and while you are at it, a GDB stub
2012-02-04T21:25:32 < karlp> what gdb stub parts are you missing?
2012-02-04T21:26:24 < jpa-> no idea; i guess USB is going to be such a major hurdle that i won't bother
2012-02-04T21:26:40 < jpa-> it would help my life if i could have gdb stub going over usb (e.g. as a serial port)
2012-02-04T21:26:55 <+Steffanx> No thanks jpa-
2012-02-04T21:27:05 < jpa-> because the !"# dso quad designers haven't brought out the SWD pins
2012-02-04T21:27:48 <+Steffanx> jtag only?
2012-02-04T21:29:53 <+Steffanx> You should port  LUFA jpa-
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2012-02-04T21:38:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: nope, no jtag either
2012-02-04T21:38:37 < jpa-> just USART1 and BOOT0, and even those are on a header that is not easily accessible
2012-02-04T21:39:08 < jpa-> i agree that *someone* should port LUFA, but i don't think i'm up to it yet
2012-02-04T21:39:20 < jpa-> i have never written an USB device firmware
2012-02-04T21:40:35 <+Steffanx> I've only done it with LUFA, for an AVR
2012-02-04T21:41:46 < jpa-> do you know something about how the device descriptor is read from the device?
2012-02-04T21:43:01 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-04T21:45:28  * Steffanx doesn't understand jpa- 
2012-02-04T21:46:33 < jpa-> me neither
2012-02-04T21:46:36 < jpa-> that is the problem
2012-02-04T21:49:13 <+Steffanx> LOL, ok :P
2012-02-04T21:50:41 <+Steffanx> I mean.. that part is handled by LUFA, so i don't exactly know how it's done
2012-02-04T21:51:27 < jpa-> i expected so much :)
2012-02-04T21:52:03 <+Steffanx> All I changed for my project is the device descriptor, interface etc. :)
2012-02-04T21:52:14 <+Steffanx> http://code.google.com/p/lufa-lib/source/browse/trunk/Projects/AVRISP-MKII/Descriptors.c :)
2012-02-04T22:44:46 < gsmcmullin> We have a usb support in libopencm3.
2012-02-04T22:45:36 < Laurenceb__> wait.. theres been some work done on it?
2012-02-04T22:46:04 < gsmcmullin> on what?
2012-02-04T22:46:07 <+Steffanx> True, but i think most of the people in here don't want to use GPLv3-ish code gsmcmullin :P
2012-02-04T22:46:23 < gsmcmullin> Life's tough then, sorry.
2012-02-04T22:46:25 < Laurenceb__> haha
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2012-02-04T22:55:23 < karlp> life's not tough, life's free :)
2012-02-04T22:56:13 <+Steffanx> Since when?
2012-02-04T22:56:28 <+Steffanx> I'm forced to pay taxes, health care etc..
2012-02-04T23:01:23 < zyp> «forced»
2012-02-04T23:01:45 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-02-04T23:02:04 < Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/03/us_deportation/
2012-02-04T23:03:02 <+Steffanx> Forced, by the law zyp
2012-02-04T23:03:55 < zyp> when did living become taxable?
2012-02-04T23:03:58 <+Steffanx> lol Laurenceb__
2012-02-04T23:04:13 <+Steffanx> Health care probably is sort of
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2012-02-04T23:06:17 < zyp> I don't know how it works for you, but here you have to have a considerable income or wealth before you're taxed
2012-02-04T23:07:01 < Laurenceb_> in UK it starts at stupidly low levels
2012-02-04T23:07:06 < Laurenceb_> also 20% VAT.. wtf
2012-02-04T23:07:13 < zyp> 25% here
2012-02-04T23:07:18 < Laurenceb_> eeek
2012-02-04T23:07:20 < zyp> and what's «stupidly low»?
2012-02-04T23:07:25 < Laurenceb_> 5%
2012-02-04T23:07:32 < Laurenceb_> oh
2012-02-04T23:07:38 < Laurenceb_> ~£12K
2012-02-04T23:07:40 < Laurenceb_> or something
2012-02-04T23:07:43 < Laurenceb_> no wait
2012-02-04T23:07:50 < Laurenceb_> its lower than that, about 6K
2012-02-04T23:08:11 < Laurenceb_> but atm I pay no tax as im a student muhahaha
2012-02-04T23:08:27 < Laurenceb_> so i can afford to pay off all my student debt
2012-02-04T23:09:01 < zyp> I think over here taxable income starts at the equivalent of £4k or so
2012-02-04T23:09:45 < Laurenceb_> thats horrible
2012-02-04T23:10:10 < Laurenceb_> atm i make about £25K/year
2012-02-04T23:10:37 < Laurenceb_> live off a few K and the rest pays off my debts
2012-02-04T23:10:42 < zyp> nah, it keeps the kids that works only during the summer or so from getting taxed
2012-02-04T23:12:49 < Laurenceb_> imo you should be able to afford to live without paying tax
2012-02-04T23:13:08 < Laurenceb_> but i had ~£50K debts 2 years ago
2012-02-04T23:13:16 < Laurenceb_> should have paid it all off soon :P
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2012-02-04T23:18:15 < jpa-> gsmcmullin: nice, I'll have a look tomorrow
2012-02-04T23:21:53 < Laurenceb_> i guess we have lower taxes but crazy student loads
2012-02-04T23:22:17 < Laurenceb_> in one hand out of the other :P
2012-02-04T23:23:17 < zyp> I got £17k in student loan debt by studying for three years
2012-02-04T23:24:12 < Laurenceb_> yeah i spent ~25K on building materials, and studied for 4 years
2012-02-04T23:24:18 < Laurenceb_> that sounds similar to UK
2012-02-04T23:24:49 < zyp> I can easily pay it down, considering I'm now makin around £46k a year, but norwegian student loans are pretty much the cheapest loans one can have
2012-02-04T23:25:33 < zyp> I can probably get a savings account with better interest than my student loan
2012-02-04T23:27:31 < Laurenceb_> yeah same here usually.. but not at the moment
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2012-02-05T04:55:36 < Tom_itx> !thislog
2012-02-05T04:55:38 < Tom_itx> !thislog
2012-02-05T05:12:40 < Tom_itx> are you like my neighbors and leave the lights up all year?
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2012-02-05T13:55:01 < Nebukadneza> heho
2012-02-05T13:55:05 < jpa-> hello :)
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2012-02-05T15:20:04 < Nebukadneza> reoi
2012-02-05T15:20:14 < Nebukadneza> with a bit lag, but ... i wanted to ask the status of the debugger?
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2012-02-05T15:42:38 < karlp> "working"
2012-02-05T15:42:45 < karlp> for many different interpreations of working.
2012-02-05T15:43:01 < karlp> also, which debugger?
2012-02-05T15:44:04 < Nebukadneza> uh, righta, best gdb?
2012-02-05T15:52:27 < jpa-> karlp: we were discussing STM32F4(discovery) on another channel and i though you might know the status of the linux stlinkv2
2012-02-05T15:53:03 < karlp> to th ebest of my knowledge it sometimes needs some manual presses of the reset button.
2012-02-05T15:53:06 < karlp> not sure why.
2012-02-05T15:53:48 < karlp> it seems to hang at the end of writing flash or loading elf through gdb, but pressing reset seems to continue in the right place.
2012-02-05T15:54:08 < karlp> uwe is working on an f4 board though, and I haven't tested it personally in the last two weeks or so, so he might have fixed it by now.
2012-02-05T15:54:34 < Nebukadneza> mh, if its only that that should be okay?
2012-02-05T15:55:21 < karlp> Nebukadneza: "gdb" works fine.  if you're asking about the status of github/texane/stlink, then yes, for f1, l1, and mostly for the f2/f4, it's working fine.
2012-02-05T15:55:52 < karlp> what board are you targetting?
2012-02-05T15:56:00 < karlp> on what platform?
2012-02-05T15:56:50 < Nebukadneza> i think the STM32F4DISCOVERY ... probably
2012-02-05T15:58:34 < karlp> well, it should be working.  Try the latest top of tree, and report issues if it doesn't
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2012-02-05T16:28:38 < Nebukadneza> kay ... gotta check a few other things first
2012-02-05T16:28:55 < Nebukadneza> (i need to abuse its i2s hardware quite a bit...)
2012-02-05T16:28:59 < Nebukadneza> (it seems)
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2012-02-05T17:50:58 < dirkD> hi, is it possible to fire a interrupt on both the *falling and rising* edge of a pulse using the input capturer?
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2012-02-05T18:03:34 < Tom_itx> dirkD it certainly should be
2012-02-05T18:03:39 < Tom_itx> avr does
2012-02-05T18:04:52 < dirkD> yes, i found TIM_PWMIConfig, i think that could be of use
2012-02-05T18:04:54 < jpa-> dirkD: the external interrupt module should allow that
2012-02-05T18:05:07 < jpa-> if you want just to fire interrupts, you don't need timers
2012-02-05T18:05:34 < dirkD> well, i need a timer, as i want to measure the pulse width
2012-02-05T18:06:03 < dirkD> basically what i want to do is measure the width of a pulse (which is in between 1 and 60 ms)
2012-02-05T18:06:14 < dirkD> that pulse is sent every 100ms
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2012-02-05T18:50:13 < dirkD> got it, using the PWM input :)
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2012-02-06T00:25:21 < dirkD> is it possible to trigger the TIM (TIM3) of an STM32F103 on another channel than channel 2?
2012-02-06T00:25:40 < dirkD> or can i only trigger on TIM1_CH2, TIM2_CH2, TIM3_CH2 etc.?
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2012-02-06T14:22:00 < karlp> any of you mac people have a _clue_ what this is? https://github.com/texane/stlink/issues/60
2012-02-06T14:27:40 < Laurenceb> how do i get asm with inline source code?
2012-02-06T14:27:55 < Laurenceb> using arm-none-eabi-objdump?
2012-02-06T14:37:24 < ureif> the guy has a hackintosh ?
2012-02-06T14:42:30 < karlp> Laurenceb: I think it's a compile/link time option.
2012-02-06T14:42:38 < karlp> one tick, I think I've got it here somewhere
2012-02-06T14:43:30 < karlp> -Wa,-adhlns=$(<:%.c=$(OBJDIR)/%.lst)
2012-02-06T14:44:23 < karlp> or this one: $(OBJDUMP) -h -S -z blah.elf > blah.lss
2012-02-06T14:44:42 < karlp> I can't remember the differences between the lst and the lss files,
2012-02-06T14:45:37 < Laurenceb> oh i can make it work on elf
2012-02-06T14:45:46 < Laurenceb> i wanted to run on a .o file
2012-02-06T14:47:38 < karlp> just so you don't have to tlook at all of it at once?
2012-02-06T14:48:18 < Laurenceb> yes
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2012-02-07T02:43:18 < Tom_itx> what's a good USB sniffer?
2012-02-07T02:43:29 < Tom_itx> moderate to good
2012-02-07T02:49:54 < Tom_itx> Beagle any good?
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2012-02-07T04:33:58 < pgold> Good evening, can someone help me with a STM32F4?
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2012-02-07T19:13:24 <+Steffanx> Yay, me received his stm32f4
2012-02-07T19:14:15 < jpa-> does it work? :)
2012-02-07T19:14:28 <+Steffanx> Don't know yet
2012-02-07T19:16:20 <+Steffanx> I received two, were I only ordered one :P
2012-02-07T19:16:30 < jpa-> other one is mine
2012-02-07T19:16:42 < Thorn> I missed an opportunity to order an f4discovery but it seems to be available again
2012-02-07T19:17:21 <+Steffanx> Nah, I ordered by accident two, but they changed it for me to one f4 and a cpld board, but they sent me 2 discovery's AND that cpld board
2012-02-07T19:17:31 <+Steffanx> I even got a refund for it
2012-02-07T19:18:05 < Thorn> 3 boards for the price of one?
2012-02-07T19:18:53 <+Steffanx> No, 2 discovery's + cpld board for the price of 1 discovery + cpld board :P
2012-02-07T19:19:27 < Thorn> what cpld? altera or xilinx?
2012-02-07T19:19:52 <+Steffanx> xilinx
2012-02-07T19:24:17 < Thorn> my last order contained a tube of 7-seg displays more than a meter long
2012-02-07T19:26:24 <+Steffanx> :S
2012-02-07T19:28:00 < Thorn> I'm going to keep it as a souvenir lol
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2012-02-07T19:44:04 < emeb> not much more than the qty price for the bare MCUs
2012-02-07T19:44:23 < Thorn> the supplier I'm looking at has it for about $20.5
2012-02-07T19:45:38 < Thorn> 2 weeks ago when I placed an order with them they just ran out of it
2012-02-07T19:55:46 < Thorn> I need to finally design something around an stm32f1 and order pcbs before doing anything else
2012-02-07T19:57:43 < Thorn> something with rs-485, can, dataflash, thermometer, rtc, 7 seg display, 10 rgb leds, discrete inputs & outputs as a minimum
2012-02-07T19:57:46 < emeb> Here's what I did with an STM32F100: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/synth/e355/index.html
2012-02-07T19:58:16 < emeb> Amazing what you can cram into a $3 MCU.
2012-02-07T19:59:43 < Thorn> this is for audio, correct?
2012-02-07T19:59:45 < emeb> Yes
2012-02-07T19:59:57 < emeb> Uses the two on-chip 12-bit DACs.
2012-02-07T20:01:46 < Thorn> I wanted to do some kind of usb audio interface / processor with an f4 eventually
2012-02-07T20:02:18 < emeb> That's on my to-do list also.
2012-02-07T20:02:26 < Thorn> the f4discovery would be useful for that, it's got some audio stuff onboard
2012-02-07T20:02:46 < Thorn> maybe also a digital intercom (adpcm over rs-485?)
2012-02-07T20:02:54 < emeb> Yeah. Unfortunately the "codec" on board is just a DAC really.
2012-02-07T20:03:25 < emeb> So I'll have to wire up a true codec for audio in.
2012-02-07T20:05:00 < Thorn> cirrus logic has interesting codecs, some even in soic
2012-02-07T20:05:17 < emeb> Yep - I've used the CS4270 in previous projects.
2012-02-07T20:05:32 < emeb> I like Wolfson codecs too - the WM8731 is nice.
2012-02-07T20:15:32 < Thorn> I wonder if these 24/96 (or even 24/192) codecs actually differ in sound quality
2012-02-07T20:17:22 < emeb> Studio guys I know don't value the higher rates/resolutions much.
2012-02-07T20:18:04 < emeb> there are situations where higher rates are helpful though - for synthesis higher rates help aliasing in oscillators.
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2012-02-07T20:50:54 <+Steffanx> Thorn, I also paid about ~21$
2012-02-07T20:51:28 <+Steffanx> I just received an email from the shop I ordered mine from. I can keep it :)
2012-02-07T20:51:33 <+Steffanx> So one board for free :)
2012-02-07T20:55:20 < zyp> nice
2012-02-07T21:00:30 <+Steffanx> Disco!
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2012-02-07T21:16:24 < zippe> emeb: studio people seem to care more about the noise floor, oddly enough
2012-02-07T21:17:02 < emeb> zippe: not so odd actually. No one likes to hear that hissing.
2012-02-07T21:17:14 < zippe> sorry, that was sarcasm 8)
2012-02-07T21:17:43 < emeb> heh. irony impaired today.
2012-02-07T21:18:05 < zippe> Eat more spinach
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2012-02-07T22:00:41 <+Steffanx> emeb .. where is some example video/sound?
2012-02-07T22:02:02 <+Steffanx> And you made that front panel yourself?
2012-02-07T22:02:33 < emeb> Steffanx: here's a little blurb from NAMM with my partner doing a demo: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2012/01/27/wnamm12-synthesis-technology-new-modules/
2012-02-07T22:03:13 < emeb> The front panel is from an outfit called "Front Panel Express": http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/
2012-02-07T22:03:30 < emeb> you send 'em design files, a week later you get panels. Not cheap though.
2012-02-07T22:08:35 <+Steffanx> Just like i thought
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2012-02-07T22:10:05 < emeb> For production we use MetalPhoto, but they're not good for prototype qty.
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2012-02-08T11:22:06 < Thorn> what noise should I expect from adc in stm32? I'm seeing an amplitude of at least 10-12 units for a constant input voltage
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2012-02-08T11:51:41 < Thorn> huh. disabled blinking leds, noise amplitude bacame about 3 times smaller
2012-02-08T12:15:55 < jpa-> sounds like you have quite some power supply noise :)
2012-02-08T12:16:34 < Thorn> that's certainly not impossible
2012-02-08T12:16:48 < Thorn> I tried usb and a wall wart with same results
2012-02-08T12:17:42 < Thorn> the dev board has a linear regulator (and a filter on Vdda)
2012-02-08T12:18:37 < Thorn> also Vref = Vdda but I'm measuring a pot connected between Vdd and ground
2012-02-08T12:18:53 < Thorn> shouldn't that cancel power noise to some extent?
2012-02-08T12:20:29 < Thorn> this board doesn't allow connecting an external voltage reference unfortunately
2012-02-08T12:32:12 < jpa-> if your Vdda is clean and Vdd dirty, then your pot voltage is actually not constant
2012-02-08T12:33:43 < Thorn> they're separated by an LC filter, L being an smd bead
2012-02-08T12:34:10 < Thorn> but I can connect the pot to vref
2012-02-08T12:40:46 < Thorn> doesn't appear to make a whole lot of difference
2012-02-08T12:42:10 < Thorn> actually with the pot connected between Vref- and vref+ the effect of leds switching is not as great
2012-02-08T12:43:03 < Thorn> resetting the mcu has a weird effect, noise can jump up or back down after a reset
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2012-02-08T15:53:23 < Thorn> my adc graph looks a lot like an ECG
2012-02-08T15:53:46 < dongs> beeeeeeeep
2012-02-08T15:54:28 < Thorn> of ventricular fibrillation
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2012-02-08T16:44:55 < ureif> use a battery
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2012-02-08T17:57:08 < spellbound> Doing my first experiments with a STM32L Discovery board. I was able to get the 32L_LCD example in the texane stlink package partially working -- it flashed the LEDs but did not display anything on the LCD. Anyone know what might be the problem?
2012-02-08T18:10:35 < ureif> spellbound: today is Wednesday.
2012-02-08T18:21:48 <+izua> what will the day after tomorrow be?
2012-02-08T18:30:56 < zyp> fuck you :p
2012-02-08T19:06:59 < spellbound> If you're a bot, raise your hand.
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2012-02-08T19:56:51 <+izua> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asem-efix-mac-chameleon,8617.html
2012-02-08T19:56:55 <+izua> so yeah
2012-02-08T19:57:25 <+izua> apparently efix, which is some device that lets you do some hardware magic to allow you to multiboot mac os on a pc runs on a stm32
2012-02-08T19:58:55 <+Steffanx> You still need compatible hw .
2012-02-08T19:58:57 <+Steffanx> ..
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2012-02-08T20:18:56 <+izua> not sure
2012-02-08T20:18:59 <+izua> looks like it
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2012-02-08T23:45:19 <+Steffanx> It's in the article izua
2012-02-08T23:50:04 <+izua> yeah
2012-02-08T23:50:22 <+izua> i'm just not sure whyu would anybody choose to do that and use that device
2012-02-08T23:50:34 <+izua> but i guess it's cloneable, since it uses an stm :D
2012-02-08T23:56:10 <+Steffanx> Why pay for such a device when you can download hackintosh too :)
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--- Day changed Thu Feb 09 2012
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2012-02-09T00:16:04 < Laurenceb_> haha
2012-02-09T00:16:18 < Laurenceb_> i never understand mac fans
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2012-02-09T00:21:39 <+Steffann> Someone who owns a mac, is a macfan Laurenceb_ ?
2012-02-09T00:22:14 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-09T00:22:38 <+Steffann> So you are windows fan? Linux fan?
2012-02-09T00:22:46 <+Steffann> Bike fan
2012-02-09T00:22:48 <+Steffann> Car fan
2012-02-09T00:22:51 <+Steffann> House fan
2012-02-09T00:22:53 <+Steffann> Pencil Fan
2012-02-09T00:23:20 <+Steffann> etc. fan
2012-02-09T00:27:52 <+izua> Fanfan
2012-02-09T00:28:02 <+izua> [ Become a fan ]
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--- Log opened Thu Feb 09 01:55:39 2012
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2012-02-09T04:07:35 < spellbound> Anyone know how to start a program on an STM32 after uploading it to sram with Texane's stlink program?
2012-02-09T04:08:39 < spellbound> I have a .bin file that works fine when I start it with gdb as the described in the tutorial. I'd like to get the same .bin file running after uploading it with "flash write test.bin 0x20000000"
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2012-02-09T04:10:08 < BrainDamage> you flash the bin to the flash, and you load the elf to ram using gdb
2012-02-09T04:11:02 < spellbound> BrainDamage: Got it working with gdb. I'd like to get it running on the chip without gdb.
2012-02-09T04:11:43 < BrainDamage> ok, I guess you have your boot vector setup for flashing, and you got a .bin to flash?
2012-02-09T04:11:52 < BrainDamage> here I have to reboot after flashing
2012-02-09T04:13:39 < spellbound> I have a .bin file that is linked for running from sram and that works when I start it from gdb. That is, I can run st-tool, start the arm gdb, do "target extend localhost:4242" and "load test.bin" and "continue" and it starts running on device.
2012-02-09T04:15:25 < spellbound> Actually, that's not true. The file I load with gdb is the elf version, so "load test.elf". It then proceeds to upload the bin part of that to the device. The number of bytes it uploads corresponds to the .bin file.
2012-02-09T04:18:19 < spellbound> On the other hand, if I create a .bin file that is linked for running from flash and upload it with "flash write test.bin 0x8000000", the program starts running automatically.
2012-02-09T04:19:41 < spellbound> BrainDamage: What do you have to reboot after flashing?
2012-02-09T04:21:07 < BrainDamage> I just press the reboot button
2012-02-09T04:23:02 < BrainDamage> it could also be we're using diff versions of the tools
2012-02-09T04:23:06 < BrainDamage> mine is very old
2012-02-09T04:23:21 < BrainDamage> I guess they added auto reset for the chip
2012-02-09T04:32:18 < spellbound> BrainDamage: Actually, I wasn't remembering correctly. When I write the program to flash, I have to press the reset button for it to start. But when I start it from gdb, it starts automatically.
2012-02-09T04:32:29 < BrainDamage> that's correct
2012-02-09T04:33:07 < BrainDamage> that's because when gdb is attached, you can shift the program counter to the interested point
2012-02-09T04:33:17 < BrainDamage> and let the program run
2012-02-09T04:33:19 < spellbound> Aha.
2012-02-09T04:33:35 < spellbound> Is there any way to do that from the command line, without gdb?
2012-02-09T04:35:05 < BrainDamage> btw, someone else that know the tools internals might know better, I don't guarantee the correctness of my statements, I'm just making educated guesses from my general uP knowledge
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2012-02-09T04:35:36 < BrainDamage> I doubt wrt command line, I think you'd have to patch the stlink tool
2012-02-09T04:36:21 < spellbound> Ok. I appreciate the help.
2012-02-09T04:36:39 < BrainDamage> also, I'm not even sure you can shift the PC to have it read directly from the flash
2012-02-09T04:36:49 < BrainDamage> but probably yes
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2012-02-09T04:37:41 < spellbound> I guess that must be possible because the program runs automatically when I write it to flash and push the reset button.
2012-02-09T04:38:10 < BrainDamage> it's not necessarily run from flash, for instance, the bootloader could copy to ram first
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2012-02-09T04:38:42 < BrainDamage> but tbh, I never bothered checking that
2012-02-09T04:38:51 < spellbound> I see. So when I use the flash tool to write the .bin file to 0x8000000, I'm also writing a bootloader?
2012-02-09T04:39:04 < BrainDamage> no, the stm32 has a builtin bootloader
2012-02-09T04:39:06 < BrainDamage> hw
2012-02-09T04:39:13 < spellbound> Ok.
2012-02-09T04:39:26 < BrainDamage> you can even use to upload a program serially
2012-02-09T04:39:33 < BrainDamage> by toggling a pin on the device
2012-02-09T04:40:01 < BrainDamage> without using more complex stuff such as swd or jtag
2012-02-09T04:40:06 < spellbound> For use if the program is stored on another chip?
2012-02-09T04:40:46 < BrainDamage> to program the device
2012-02-09T04:40:56 < spellbound> ah
2012-02-09T04:43:46 < spellbound> I looked in the stlink library, and there's a couple of functions in there, run_flash_loader() and stlink_run(), that looked like they might do something, so I added them to the flash tool, to run after a write to sram, but nothing happened.
2012-02-09T04:51:05 < spellbound> I just noticed that when I flash the original firmware back to the device, then it does indeed start without me having to hit the reset button. So that behavior has something to do with the type of .bin file.
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2012-02-09T09:02:41 < jpa-> spellbound: try initializing your stack pointer in your startup code
2012-02-09T09:03:25 < jpa-> spellbound: when braching from bootloader/stlink loader/something, i have found that sometimes the stack pointer is not initialized from the vector table and you need to initialize it yourself
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2012-02-09T15:56:28 <+Steffann> Hmm, the amount of data that comes from the SWV is soooo much
2012-02-09T15:58:06 <+izua> what's a swv?
2012-02-09T15:59:09 <+Steffann> Serial Wire Viewer .. extra debug stuff from the stlink/v2
2012-02-09T15:59:28 <+Steffann> Actually extra debug stuff from the stm32f4
2012-02-09T16:01:36 <+Steffann> but it's pretty hard to analyze the usb protocol when debug->run->stop .. generates ~3k packages
2012-02-09T16:03:20 < zyp> that's why you have usb analyzers
2012-02-09T16:04:36 <+Steffann> Yeah, perhaps i should use something more advanced that snoopypro :)
2012-02-09T16:43:17 <+Steffann> I didn't know the ETM/SWV/wathever documentation is available for everyone :)
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2012-02-09T17:14:09 < Laurenceb> Steffann: you are a using debug printf function?
2012-02-09T17:14:13 < Laurenceb> *using a
2012-02-09T17:14:17 <+Steffann> No
2012-02-09T17:14:36 < Laurenceb> what is coming down the SWV then?
2012-02-09T17:14:42 <+Steffann> 0x11223344 :P
2012-02-09T17:14:48 < Laurenceb> oh lol
2012-02-09T17:36:23 <+Steffann> I'm using the lite version of TrueStudio to capture the protocol. The lite version only shows the first 10 SWV packages, but receives everything :)
2012-02-09T17:37:23 < Thorn> swv is using swd for transport, right?
2012-02-09T17:38:28 <+Steffann> it's a seperate pin afaik
2012-02-09T17:42:18 < Thorn> right, JTDO / TRACESWO (PB3)
2012-02-09T17:44:40 < Thorn> so there're 2 trace factilities, ETM (5 pins, complete instruction trace) and SWO (1 pin, data trace / counters only) + ITM (debug messages over SWO)?
2012-02-09T17:56:10 <+Steffann> Something like that :p
2012-02-09T17:59:10 < spellbound> I'm playing with a small LED project using an STM32 and an LCD driver chip that needs to have the data clocked in serially.
2012-02-09T17:59:48 < spellbound> I realize that I can just use tuned busy loops to get the right frequencies when clocking out the data.
2012-02-09T18:00:09 < spellbound> But that solution seems so ugly, so I was thinking I might do something with timers and interrupts.
2012-02-09T18:01:38 < spellbound> I'm wondering how I would set up a wait function that I can just call to get some given delay, and internally, it sets up a timer, then goes to sleep, then wakes up when the timer reaches zero and returns to the caller.
2012-02-09T18:02:30 < Thorn> you can stop a rtos task on a semaphore / mutex / etc this way
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2012-02-09T18:08:47 < obnauticus> Me. Gusta.
2012-02-09T18:09:22 < obnauticus> Does anyone here have any resources to get started on a project which takes ADC data sampled by the 32f4 and stores it to a filesystem over the USB HCI (i.e., flash drive)? I can't seem to find any relevant information on the intarwep.
2012-02-09T18:11:18 < spellbound> Thorn: I wasn't planning on using an RTOS. Thanks for the info though.
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2012-02-09T18:12:53 < Thorn> with a standard mainloop + inerrupts scenario, set a flag in an interrupt and test it every iteration
2012-02-09T18:14:37 < Thorn> (while hopefully avoiding a data race)
2012-02-09T18:17:43 < spellbound> Ah -- I get it. Thanks!
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2012-02-09T18:52:25 < jpa-> obnauticus: sampling ADC data (and storing to RAM with DMA) is quite easy
2012-02-09T18:53:08 < jpa-> obnauticus: for the USB part, there are always ST's own libraries, though they are a bit obscure and poorly documented sometimes; I'm not sure if libopencm3 or chibios have USB support for the F4
2012-02-09T18:53:34 < jpa-> obnauticus: for the filesystem, fatfs is a nice library
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2012-02-09T19:06:48 < Thorn> looks like j-link clones are gone from ebay
2012-02-09T19:12:38 <+Steffann> The internet is bigger than ebay only :P
2012-02-09T19:13:21 < Thorn> right but it's an interesting phenomenon. did segger force ebay to remove those listings?
2012-02-09T19:13:43 <+Steffann> Probably
2012-02-09T19:17:40 < obnauticus> jpa- chibios
2012-02-09T19:17:41 < obnauticus> ah
2012-02-09T19:17:42 < obnauticus> that would be cool
2012-02-09T19:26:55 < obnauticus> is there any specific way to interface with this thing directly to the breadboard; the jumpers are a bit weird and dont seem to fit in any clever way other than with female jumpers lol
2012-02-09T19:36:41 < jpa-> the stm32f4 discovery is not very breadboard friendly :)
2012-02-09T19:36:57 < obnauticus> I did not think so
2012-02-09T19:40:16 <+Steffann> No very? It's just not breadboardable at all
2012-02-09T19:40:30 <+Steffann> Unless you like to short the pins
2012-02-09T19:41:44 < jpa-> hey, discovery boards have feelings too
2012-02-09T19:41:48 < jpa-> i just tried to be polite
2012-02-09T19:42:16 < obnauticus> Steffann yeah, i know
2012-02-09T19:42:38 < obnauticus> If there were additional spacing between the headers, like if they used two 1x* rows and spaced them like 1cm apart
2012-02-09T19:42:44 < obnauticus> it would be very breadboardable on two breadboards
2012-02-09T19:42:53 < obnauticus> and had like a cutout through the PCB
2012-02-09T19:42:56 < obnauticus> but that would super sexy
2012-02-09T19:43:03 <+Steffann> The stm32f4discovery's little brother is breadbroadable jpa- :)
2012-02-09T19:59:19 <+Steffann> Oh, no need to reverse engineer the protocol at all...
2012-02-09T19:59:52 <+Steffann> It looks like the data on the 3rd endpoint of the stlink/v2 is just the raw stream from the trace port
2012-02-09T20:00:27 <+Steffann> And that protocol is documented very well in several documents provided by ARM
2012-02-09T20:04:42 <+Steffann> Sometimes life is so easy
2012-02-09T20:22:36 < Thorn> does anyone have experience with tms320 DSPs?
2012-02-09T20:23:18 <+Steffann> pass
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2012-02-09T20:41:00 <+Steffann> karlp_ is on holiday isn't he?
2012-02-09T20:41:44 < Thorn> holiday = 24/7 IRC no?
2012-02-09T20:41:48 < Thorn> :p
2012-02-09T20:42:40 <+Steffann> Some have their client running on a server.. :)
2012-02-09T20:43:02 <+Steffann> He went to Australia iirc
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2012-02-09T22:24:59 < karlp_> see? I told you you'd have it all sorted out by the time I got back :)
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2012-02-09T22:27:31 <+Steffanx> Lol, you are back?
2012-02-09T22:30:18 <+Steffanx> I know HOW it works, but not how to implement it
2012-02-09T22:30:33 <+Steffanx> Ok, I do, but I know the best way to implement it
2012-02-09T22:32:15 < karlp_> no, not bck,
2012-02-09T22:32:24 < karlp_> just up early, geeking out a bit
2012-02-09T22:32:38 < karlp_> waiting for my sister to get up, then we're off to the beach for the day
2012-02-09T22:32:38 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-02-09T22:33:23 < karlp_> yeah, I don't know how to do it either, the rest of the commands are pretty easy, you send a command, you get a response, you know how long everything is.
2012-02-09T22:33:47 < karlp_> I imagine something will need to loop sending some special message to keep pulling packets out of the 3rd endpoint.
2012-02-09T22:34:05 < karlp_> as usb has to always be started by the host
2012-02-09T22:34:16 <+Steffanx> I'm not into libusb at all
2012-02-09T22:34:35 <+Steffanx> or usb
2012-02-09T22:35:55 <+Steffanx> Or GDB, does a server has a special communication channel for things like this?
2012-02-09T22:36:30 <+Steffanx> It would be nice to make it possible to show everything with a nice UI
2012-02-09T22:37:36 <+Steffanx> That would mean a second socket or something like that, but i've no idea if that's a good option
2012-02-09T22:38:26 < karlp_> I know libusb only from copying crap around in stlink, and I know absolutely nothing about gdb commands :)
2012-02-09T22:38:40 < karlp_> that was whitequark and co iirc
2012-02-09T22:38:58 < karlp_> but I have faith that you will work it out :)
2012-02-09T22:39:07 < karlp_> I'll be here very few days to encourage you ;)
2012-02-09T22:39:19 <+Steffanx> :(
2012-02-09T22:41:03 <+Steffanx> I'll take a look how Atollic did it..
2012-02-09T22:41:42 <+Steffanx> I think they use the same GDB<->server connection for everything
2012-02-09T22:49:13 <+Steffanx> but then you can't attach a nice gui, so… :(
2012-02-09T22:51:02 < jpa-> guis are for wussies
2012-02-09T22:52:51 <+Steffanx> The WHAT?
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2012-02-09T22:54:38 <+Steffanx> Ah, but you don't want to have some nice graphs jpa- ?
2012-02-09T22:55:09 <+Steffanx> And I don't like to see the debug strings in the same window as everything else
2012-02-09T22:55:18 <+izua> and some chart pies!
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2012-02-09T22:55:47 <+Steffanx> Yeah, about the performance izua :)
2012-02-09T22:56:35 <+Steffanx> *with the performance
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2012-02-09T22:58:38 <+Steffanx> I still have some plans to make a javascriptable gdb based debugger. JS is HOT :P
2012-02-09T23:00:23 <+izua> *shivers*
2012-02-09T23:00:45 <+Steffanx> It's pretty nice imho
2012-02-09T23:00:51 <+Steffanx> Better than GDB commands
2012-02-09T23:00:52 <+izua> you should get a room with dekar, who can't wait for those usb access from firefox driver thingies
2012-02-09T23:01:20 <+izua> but i'll give you that, js is cool for an interpreted language
2012-02-09T23:01:28 <+izua> but i wish that whole dom thing would have been python
2012-02-09T23:02:31 <+Steffanx> Nah, most python code i've seen is a mess.. or at least it looks like it
2012-02-09T23:03:51 <+Steffanx> *was
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2012-02-09T23:09:41 <+Steffanx> but how would you guys implement something like that. The GDB-server has to receive the data from the trace port. [something] has to show it
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2012-02-09T23:24:33 <+Steffanx> grummund is in tha mood
2012-02-09T23:31:05 < grummund> sup
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2012-02-10T00:28:49 <+Steffanx> That grummund
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2012-02-10T01:08:20 < grummund> hmm, can't think what you mean.
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2012-02-10T15:58:18 < Laurenceb> anyone here have the swd pinout?
2012-02-10T15:58:23 < Laurenceb> for stm32 discovery
2012-02-10T15:59:06 < jpa-> it's in the manual?
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2012-02-10T16:00:30 <+Steffanx> it is
2012-02-10T16:02:35 < Laurenceb> ah - user manual
2012-02-10T16:02:43 < Laurenceb> is traget reset supported yet?
2012-02-10T16:03:50 < zyp> tragic reset?
2012-02-10T16:04:15 < Laurenceb> lol
2012-02-10T16:04:17 < Laurenceb> target
2012-02-10T16:04:33 < Laurenceb> on discovery - using the SWd header
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2012-02-10T16:19:51 < Laurenceb> whats the best stlink software atm?
2012-02-10T16:20:05 < Laurenceb> i have code from karlp but its a bit old now
2012-02-10T17:16:20 < Laurenceb> ah target reset works with latest texane branch
2012-02-10T17:18:25 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-02-10T17:27:22 < eroomde> Laurenceb: ah that's good to know
2012-02-10T17:27:22 < eroomde> ta
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2012-02-10T17:57:22 < Laurenceb> we still want swo/swv working :P
2012-02-10T17:57:37 < Laurenceb> tho i havent a clue how to setup ETM
2012-02-10T17:57:41 <+Steffanx> It's easy
2012-02-10T17:57:57 < Laurenceb> i mean for anything other than printf type stuff
2012-02-10T17:58:14 < Laurenceb> oh wait... is that all it does?
2012-02-10T17:58:28 <+Steffanx> No
2012-02-10T17:58:35 < Laurenceb> i thought you could shove out breakpoint info etc
2012-02-10T17:59:10 <+Steffanx> I'm not sure about breakpoints but you can do more
2012-02-10T18:01:00 <+Steffanx> One thing it can do for example is output the Program Counter
2012-02-10T18:01:07 <+Steffanx> It can be used to make a some sort of profiler
2012-02-10T18:01:14 < Laurenceb> yeah
2012-02-10T18:01:22 < Laurenceb> but what triggers the output?
2012-02-10T18:04:00 <+Steffanx> Uh, how do you mean?
2012-02-10T18:04:14 < Laurenceb> say you want the program counter every millisecond
2012-02-10T18:04:18 < Laurenceb> how is that setup?
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2012-02-10T18:07:44 <+Steffanx> I'm not sure yet. I sniffed the usb data stream on a windows vm with atollic TrueStudio running
2012-02-10T18:07:57 <+Steffanx> TrueStudio sends the settings
2012-02-10T18:09:21 < Thorn> isn't that a job for DWT?
2012-02-10T18:09:56 <+Steffanx> Yes, :P
2012-02-10T18:10:28 <+Steffanx> or .. maybe not
2012-02-10T18:11:44 <+Steffanx> but i guess so when i read this in the reference manual: Hardware trace. The DWT generates these packets, and the ITM emits them.
2012-02-10T18:13:42 < Thorn> bit TXENA in ITM->TCR: Enables forwarding of hardware event packet from the DWT unit to the TPIU
2012-02-10T18:14:20 <+Steffanx> Where do you read that?
2012-02-10T18:14:43 < spellbound> I'm looking for an example on how to enable an external interrupt and connect it to a C function on STM32, with gcc-arm. Does anyone have a link handy?
2012-02-10T18:15:13 < Thorn> ARM-v7M ARM, table C1-19 on page C1-854
2012-02-10T18:16:34 <+Steffanx> My ARM-v7M document has no page c1-854 :)
2012-02-10T18:17:08 < Thorn> section C1.7.6
2012-02-10T18:17:32 < Laurenceb> oh its in the arm documentation
2012-02-10T18:17:34 <+Steffanx> I already found it, but ..
2012-02-10T18:17:34 < Laurenceb> i see now
2012-02-10T18:18:07 <+Steffanx> Everything you read in Appendix E is exactly the data you receive over endpoint 0x83 of the stlink/v2
2012-02-10T18:18:12 < Thorn> q: how you connect DWT to TPIU? a: using ITM, obviously.
2012-02-10T18:19:29 < Thorn> spellbound: standard peripheral library documentation (the chm file) has examples
2012-02-10T18:19:56 <+Steffanx> The standard peripheral library code, too :P
2012-02-10T18:21:07 < spellbound> Thanks, guys.
2012-02-10T18:21:17 <+Steffanx> Stupid ST .. why they changed the name of that TXENA bit?
2012-02-10T18:21:33 <+Steffanx> They still use the old name :)
2012-02-10T18:21:38 <+Steffanx> *didn't change
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2012-02-10T18:22:52 <+Steffanx> So get a stm32f4discovery, so we/you/i can make something useful? :)
2012-02-10T18:22:57 <+Steffanx>  Thorn
2012-02-10T18:24:43 < Thorn> I've 3 f1 boards, is that not trendy enough? :)
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2012-02-10T18:25:28 < Thorn> and 7 f1 chips waiting to be soldered somewhere
2012-02-10T18:25:47 <+Steffanx> No extra endpoint for the debug trace, so…. No not trendy enough
2012-02-10T18:26:19 < Thorn> so f4 has something f1 doesn't trace-wise?
2012-02-10T18:26:29 <+Steffanx> The stlink/v2
2012-02-10T18:26:41 < Thorn> ah
2012-02-10T18:27:22 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-02-10T18:27:34 < Thorn> might as well get an illegal clone of a segger product lol
2012-02-10T18:27:49 < Laurenceb> uint32_t __RBIT(uint32_t value)
2012-02-10T18:27:58 < Laurenceb> neat - in core_cm3.c
2012-02-10T18:27:58 <+Steffanx> The segger is still hard to use with the stlink tool :P
2012-02-10T18:28:22 < Laurenceb> __ASM volatile ("rbit %0, %1" : "=r" (result) : "r" (value) );
2012-02-10T18:28:26 <+Steffanx> but it probably uses the same principle
2012-02-10T18:28:30 < Laurenceb> i didnt know you could do that :P
2012-02-10T18:29:18 < Thorn> proves that C is not a true low level language
2012-02-10T18:30:11 < Thorn> actually I've been reading about cortex-m debug facilities and thinking about doing my own debugger (which is probably a retarded idea of course)
2012-02-10T18:32:32 < Laurenceb> static __INLINE uint32_t ITM_SendChar (uint32_t ch)
2012-02-10T18:32:42 < Laurenceb> also that in core_cm3.h
2012-02-10T18:53:09 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but it's pretty useless when you still have to disable everything else yourself Laurenceb
2012-02-10T18:53:58 <+Steffanx> Good luck Thorn
2012-02-10T18:55:08 < Thorn> where's the latest stlink code btw?
2012-02-10T18:56:38 <+Steffanx> https://github.com/texane/stlink
2012-02-10T18:56:50 <+Steffanx> *stlink tool
2012-02-10T18:56:55 <+Steffanx> utility
2012-02-10T19:02:21 < Thorn> the code is much cleaner than openocd lol
2012-02-10T19:03:54 <+Steffanx> If Thorn is interested in helping with this trace stuff.. maybe i can send you the extra stm32f4 discovery i have? (only if it's worth it ofcouse)
2012-02-10T19:06:13 < Thorn> actually I'm likely going to order one anyway :) just not sure when I'll get around to using it
2012-02-10T19:07:30 <+Steffanx> Ok, it's all up to you :P
2012-02-10T19:08:24 < Thorn> can it be used to debug external targets btw?
2012-02-10T19:08:50 < Thorn> (and is v2 of stlink hardware still retarded?)
2012-02-10T19:09:02 <+Steffanx> hardware retarted
2012-02-10T19:09:02 <+Steffanx> ?
2012-02-10T19:10:17 < Thorn> well afaik v1 uses the mass storage class and scsi commands in some horrible way (nearly incompatible with linux)
2012-02-10T19:10:40 < Thorn> as I understand stlink v2 no longer does that
2012-02-10T19:10:41 <+Steffanx> Nope, they fixed that
2012-02-10T19:10:51 < Thorn> that's good
2012-02-10T19:10:57 <+Steffanx> Yes yes :)
2012-02-10T19:12:54 <+Steffanx> They actually didn't fix it, but just don't use that mass storage stuff anymore (afaik)
2012-02-10T19:15:55 <+izua> so what do they use?
2012-02-10T19:16:39 <+izua> also, why would they chose msc as a comms protocol?
2012-02-10T19:16:47 <+izua> i'd do that for compatibility reasons
2012-02-10T19:16:57 <+izua> but as dekar said, you're better off even with audio -.-
2012-02-10T19:16:57 <+Steffanx> I've NO idea
2012-02-10T19:17:08 <+Steffanx> They do show some files..
2012-02-10T19:17:35 < Thorn> both openocd and this program use flash loaders that run on targets, I wonder what's the reason for that, performance? you can use debug port to write to any address including flash, no?
2012-02-10T19:17:35 <+Steffanx> Now it's 'vendor specific' izua
2012-02-10T19:18:06 <+Steffanx> With debug port you mean.. SWD?
2012-02-10T19:18:11 <+Steffanx>  / JTAG
2012-02-10T19:18:30 < Thorn> yes, SWJ-DP I think it's called
2012-02-10T19:18:36 <+Steffanx> SWD :)
2012-02-10T19:18:38  * flyback- http://traffic.libsyn.com/electronica/indiefeed_axiotronic_robotplacism.mp3
2012-02-10T19:19:12 <+Steffanx> WTF is that flyback- ?
2012-02-10T19:19:22 <+izua> axiotronic - robotplacism.mp3
2012-02-10T19:19:25 <+izua> by the looks of it
2012-02-10T19:19:27 <+izua> also wtf
2012-02-10T19:20:10 <+Steffanx> Awful music
2012-02-10T19:20:34 -!- zlog [~zlog@ip68-102-122-25.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2012-02-10T19:20:49 <+izua> needs more cowbell and glockenspiel
2012-02-10T19:20:54 <+izua> and that caliophone thing
2012-02-10T19:22:01 -!- Tom_L [~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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2012-02-10T19:29:21  * flyback- bites Steffanx severely
2012-02-10T19:32:50 <+izua> flyback-: your atitude reminds me of the nationality of certain cartoon characters whose heads detached from their heads while speaking
2012-02-10T19:34:38 <+Steffanx> ;p
2012-02-10T19:36:58 < flyback-> yes
2012-02-10T19:37:01 < flyback-> MUST BITE CANUCKS
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2012-02-10T19:44:57 <+dekar_> izua, got my pcb :)
2012-02-10T19:45:24 <+izua> epic
2012-02-10T19:45:25 <+izua> pics
2012-02-10T19:45:33 <+dekar_> k
2012-02-10T19:47:16 <+dekar_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/IMG_20120210_182844.jpg
2012-02-10T19:48:25 <+izua> woo
2012-02-10T19:48:30 <+izua> and it has a shitload of leds too
2012-02-10T19:48:42 <+dekar_> yeah lol, just for the prototype boards
2012-02-10T19:48:47 <+dekar_> we made 12 of them
2012-02-10T19:48:56 <+izua> oh man
2012-02-10T19:49:00 <+izua> and decoupling vias
2012-02-10T19:49:17 <+izua> looks complicated :p
2012-02-10T19:49:20 <+izua> at least the VHF part
2012-02-10T19:49:29 <+izua> or whatever ghz is considered
2012-02-10T19:49:48 <+Steffanx> uhf?
2012-02-10T19:50:15 <+Steffanx> shf
2012-02-10T19:51:40 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@46.115.36.255] has joined ##stm32
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2012-02-10T19:52:18 <+dekar__> meh -.-"
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2012-02-10T19:52:28 <+izua> mehhf
2012-02-10T19:52:34 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-02-10T19:52:34 <+dekar__> that stm32 looks so huge :D
2012-02-10T19:52:37 <+izua> still incredibly neat
2012-02-10T19:52:51 <+dekar__> I didn't get what you said and zlog is broken
2012-02-10T19:52:52 <+Steffanx> which one is i>
2012-02-10T19:53:02 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-02-10T19:53:02 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-10.html
2012-02-10T19:53:12 <+dekar__> now it works
2012-02-10T19:53:22 <+dekar__> I just whispered it and it gave me some 404 link
2012-02-10T19:53:55 <+izua> doesn't 404 here
2012-02-10T19:54:04 <+dekar__> yeah works now for me as well
2012-02-10T19:54:05 <+dekar__> idk
2012-02-10T19:54:15 <+izua> yeah
2012-02-10T19:54:16 <+dekar__> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/zlog/2012-02-10.html
2012-02-10T19:54:19 <+izua> i can see what i type live
2012-02-10T19:54:21 <+dekar__> gave me that link
2012-02-10T19:54:23 <+izua> hai internets!
2012-02-10T19:54:50 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@46.115.39.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-02-10T19:55:06 -!- Guest18767 is now known as CheBuzz
2012-02-10T19:55:08 <+dekar__> I'll add pwm for the LEDs I guess :)
2012-02-10T19:55:12 <+dekar__> make them fade nicely
2012-02-10T19:55:38 <+Steffanx> How should it know which channel when oyu talk to zlog only dekar__ ?
2012-02-10T19:55:43 < CheBuzz> Is there a universal way to read the chip serial number on F1 F2 and F4 series?
2012-02-10T19:55:44 <+Steffanx>  /msg zlog zlog ...
2012-02-10T19:55:58 <+dekar__> Steffanx, it's the STM32F103VET6
2012-02-10T19:56:41 <+Steffanx> What's that connector in the middle on the right side.. micro usb?
2012-02-10T19:57:35 <+dekar__> yeah
2012-02-10T20:00:10 < Thorn> how many layers is the pcb?
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2012-02-10T20:01:12 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-02-10T20:01:13 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-10.html
2012-02-10T20:02:03 <+dekar_> 6 layers
2012-02-10T20:02:52 <+dekar_> CheBuzz, I read it at 0x1FFFF7E8 0x1FFFF7EC and 0x1FFFF7F0
2012-02-10T20:03:30 <+dekar_> dunno whether that's universal, but one of the st examples did that
2012-02-10T20:03:45 -!- dekar__ [~dekar@46.115.36.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2012-02-10T20:04:36 <+izua> memory mapping seems pretty standard on the stm32f1 chips
2012-02-10T20:04:46 <+izua> haven't checked the f2 and f4 families yet :(
2012-02-10T20:07:34 < CheBuzz> dekar_: Thanks, I'll give that a try
2012-02-10T20:10:28 <+dekar_> izua, I'll post you a pic of the case later, we only have a 3d printed atm
2012-02-10T20:10:44 <+dekar_> but it has some engraved aluminum top :)
2012-02-10T20:10:57 <+Steffanx> Fancy
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2012-02-10T20:38:37 < Laurenceb_> jtag reset is awesome
2012-02-10T20:38:46 < Laurenceb_> now i can test shutdown properly
2012-02-10T20:39:14 < Laurenceb_> otherwise theres no way to wake up again without manually resetting
2012-02-10T20:39:36 <+Steffanx> jtag or swd? :P
2012-02-10T20:39:49 < Laurenceb_> SWD
2012-02-10T20:40:08 < Laurenceb_> well, st-link :P
2012-02-10T20:40:11 <+dekar_> shutdown O.o
2012-02-10T20:40:18 <+dekar_> why would you do that?
2012-02-10T20:40:26 <+Steffanx> To save power?
2012-02-10T20:40:28 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-10T20:40:31 <+dekar_> battery powered device?
2012-02-10T20:40:34 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-10T20:40:47 < Laurenceb_> so there one on/off/control button
2012-02-10T20:40:52 < Laurenceb_> apple style XD
2012-02-10T20:41:09 <+dekar_> well I would have thought the stm32 doesn't consume a relevant amount of energy anyway
2012-02-10T20:41:19 <+Steffanx> It does..
2012-02-10T20:41:54 <+dekar_> I think I measured 40mA at 72mhz a while ago
2012-02-10T20:42:06 <+dekar_> is that much?
2012-02-10T20:42:14 < Laurenceb_> i want ~2 decades standby
2012-02-10T20:42:18 <+dekar_> I never worked with batteries :)
2012-02-10T20:42:38 <+dekar_> oh, that's a lot O.o
2012-02-10T20:42:52 < Laurenceb_> the battery is soldered on at manufacture
2012-02-10T20:43:48 <+dekar_> so what will it be?
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2012-02-10T20:45:08 < Laurenceb_> datalogger
2012-02-10T20:45:52 <+dekar__> ah I remember, I think I asked you about that before ;)
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2012-02-10T20:47:49 <+izua> Laurenceb: what sort of datalogger
2012-02-10T20:48:14 <+izua> i've been working on one myself, and been messing with the idea of having a fs easily implemented for embedded systems
2012-02-10T20:48:28 -!- dekar_ [~dekar@46.115.35.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2012-02-10T20:49:05 <+dekar__> izua, I had to write my own FS for university -.-"
2012-02-10T20:49:33 <+izua> heh, yeah, i recall you working on that -.-
2012-02-10T20:50:16 <+dekar__> such a waste of time, but it actually worked - paths were limited to like 15 letters though XD
2012-02-10T20:50:17 <+izua> don't remember details though
2012-02-10T20:50:38 <+izua> neat
2012-02-10T20:50:45 <+izua> and one level of directories ? :P
2012-02-10T20:50:50 <+dekar__> in total
2012-02-10T20:50:55 <+dekar__> doesn't matter how many levels
2012-02-10T20:50:57 <+dekar__> XD
2012-02-10T20:51:54 <+dekar__> I had to write a lib for working with it and some basic tools to copy files in and out - as well as cat to read stuff from it
2012-02-10T20:52:30 <+izua> isn't there a universal interface you just plug in your fs and the linux kernel so you can 'plug' any fs easily?
2012-02-10T20:52:32 <+dekar__> my allocation table was a linked list dynamically reserving memory when growing, that was pretty neat :)
2012-02-10T20:53:04 <+dekar__> it didn't depend on linux, it was just some lib reading and writing block devices and/or files
2012-02-10T20:53:24 <+dekar__> so you could just have it make an FS inside a file
2012-02-10T20:53:27 <+izua> well yeah, but if you used that, you'd just need to implement the file stuff
2012-02-10T20:53:33 <+izua> open/move around/read/write/etc
2012-02-10T20:53:49 <+dekar__> we were told what to implement
2012-02-10T20:53:51 <+izua> a filesystem in a filesystem
2012-02-10T20:53:58 <+izua> i can see xzibit grinning in the dark
2012-02-10T20:54:13 <+dekar__> ever heard of loop mounts? :P
2012-02-10T20:54:42 <+izua> yeah yeah :P
2012-02-10T20:55:11 <+dekar__> I wiped some lenovo laptop at work (cause of annoying noises, returning it)
2012-02-10T20:55:14 <+dekar__> it has some SSD
2012-02-10T20:55:16 <+Steffanx> Didn't it also have a nice name dekar__ ?
2012-02-10T20:55:25 <+dekar__> I was able to watch the performance degrading
2012-02-10T20:55:34 <+dekar__> every time I ran DD it got worse
2012-02-10T20:55:47 <+izua> hehe
2012-02-10T20:55:48 <+dekar__> trim that SSD!
2012-02-10T20:55:51 <+izua> that's also what i remember xD
2012-02-10T20:55:51 <+dekar__> :P
2012-02-10T20:56:04 <+dekar__> Steffanx, horridFS :)
2012-02-10T20:56:09 <+Steffanx> Yeah :D
2012-02-10T20:56:22 <+Steffanx> The readme was great
2012-02-10T20:56:46 <+dekar__> it probably would be suited for ?C if it didn't waste insane amounts of ram
2012-02-10T20:57:27 <+dekar__> first thing it did was copy everything to ram
2012-02-10T20:57:45 <+dekar__> :D
2012-02-10T20:59:12 <+dekar__> Steffanx, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28467113/Readme.txt
2012-02-10T20:59:27 <+Steffanx> Yeah, i've seen it before
2012-02-10T20:59:44 <+dekar__> the index being a linked list sucked as well I guess
2012-02-10T21:00:28 <+dekar__> but I liked how it allocated chunks when growing the linked list
2012-02-10T21:00:35 <+dekar__> MMUs do the same :)
2012-02-10T21:00:51 <+dekar__> they allocate ram in case they need bigger allocation tables
2012-02-10T21:00:56 <+dekar__> kinda ironic
2012-02-10T21:04:19 <+Steffanx> If you say so
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2012-02-10T21:09:13 <+Steffanx> dekar_ time to get a proper connection
2012-02-10T21:11:27  * izua thought he heard modem noises
2012-02-10T21:11:50 <+Steffanx> 56k modem?
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2012-02-10T21:13:40 < Laurenceb_> izua: its for medical stuff
2012-02-10T21:13:59 <+Steffanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1AQcGGSec :D
2012-02-10T21:14:01 < Laurenceb_> grabs data from plug in sensor modules and stores on uSD
2012-02-10T21:14:13 < Laurenceb_> then mounts as mass storage when usb is plugged in
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2012-02-11T00:32:08 < Laurenceb_> zyp: are you using a machX02?
2012-02-11T00:33:26 < zyp> a what?
2012-02-11T00:34:57 < Laurenceb_> CPLD ic
2012-02-11T00:35:03 < Laurenceb_> on your autopilot
2012-02-11T00:35:11 < Laurenceb_> i was wondering how to program them
2012-02-11T00:35:34 < Laurenceb_> they look a lot nicer than larger FPGAs if you can fit everything onto one
2012-02-11T00:38:13 < Laurenceb_> http://www.latticesemi.com/products/designsoftware/diamond/index.cfm
2012-02-11T00:38:19 < Laurenceb_> looks like tools are free anyway
2012-02-11T00:40:35 < zyp> I'm using a xc9536xl
2012-02-11T00:43:45 <+Steffanx> I bought a little cpld board last week. It's still not clear WHAT a macrocell exactly is, or more .. what's inside this macrocell
2012-02-11T00:44:13 <+izua> it's sort of a lookup table with a clock
2012-02-11T00:49:15 < Laurenceb_> haha i was thinking the same
2012-02-11T00:49:26 < Laurenceb_> i dont get how you program a mach CPLD
2012-02-11T00:49:37 < Laurenceb_> looks like a usart bootloader... wtf
2012-02-11T00:49:56 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ddhPFy4HO4g
2012-02-11T00:49:58 < Laurenceb_> ^lol
2012-02-11T00:52:29 <+izua> lol
2012-02-11T00:52:33 <+izua> that part where she wrote "3D"
2012-02-11T00:52:39 <+izua> it's like "you don't say"
2012-02-11T00:54:34 < Laurenceb_> hehe
2012-02-11T00:54:39 < Laurenceb_> oh i see
2012-02-11T00:54:54 < Laurenceb_> it uses JTAG, but with gpio on the FTDI
2012-02-11T00:55:11 < Laurenceb_> so some sort of interface on it... reference manual for the eval board doesnt say
2012-02-11T00:55:50 < zyp> cplds are usually programmed over jtag
2012-02-11T00:56:09 < zyp> they don't need to be «booted» since they are non-volatile
2012-02-11T00:57:22 < Laurenceb_> sure
2012-02-11T00:57:55 < Laurenceb_> i was thinking for a GPS
2012-02-11T00:58:13 < Laurenceb_> as stm32F4 doesnt have enough performance for raw sdr gps
2012-02-11T00:59:51 < zyp> sounds like you need a pretty hefty CPLD for that, if not an FPGA
2012-02-11T01:00:15 <+izua> cplds are sucky indeed for such things
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2012-02-11T01:01:10 < zyp> and what do you hope to do better than a commercial gps chipset by making your own?
2012-02-11T01:01:22 <+izua> if you have, say, a counter, with 32 bits, and you'd want to make a timer/compare thing, you'd waste 64 cells just for storing the two registers
2012-02-11T01:01:42 <+izua> space savings? :P
2012-02-11T01:01:46 <+Steffanx> Sure izua /
2012-02-11T01:01:46 <+izua> cost too
2012-02-11T01:01:47 <+Steffanx> ?
2012-02-11T01:02:16 < zyp> nah, I don't think you'll save anything on cost
2012-02-11T01:02:24 <+izua> yeah, you'd need to chain them
2012-02-11T01:02:33 < Laurenceb_> http://www.fastraxgps.com/products/softwaregnss/softwaregps/
2012-02-11T01:02:44 <+izua> or that's what i've got when messing with a ton of target chips in webkit
2012-02-11T01:02:58 < Laurenceb_> you could have open code
2012-02-11T01:02:59 <+Steffanx> webkit ..
2012-02-11T01:03:10 < Laurenceb_> so imu integration
2012-02-11T01:03:16 <+izua> Laurenceb: that's epic
2012-02-11T01:03:22 <+izua> Steffanx: the ide from altera
2012-02-11T01:03:24 < Laurenceb_> fastrax seem to agree with me tho
2012-02-11T01:03:35 <+Steffanx> Oh, the ide from xilinx is also callde webkit
2012-02-11T01:03:42 < Laurenceb_> in the white paper they say 300MHz+ on ARM
2012-02-11T01:03:42 <+izua> ah
2012-02-11T01:03:46 <+izua> then that one must be quartus
2012-02-11T01:03:48 < Laurenceb_> for pure software
2012-02-11T01:03:49 <+izua> i mess 'em up, heh
2012-02-11T01:03:53 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-02-11T01:03:58 < Laurenceb_> otherwise hardware correlator is needed
2012-02-11T01:04:00 < zyp> Laurenceb_, I found some GPS controller chip once
2012-02-11T01:04:07 < Laurenceb_> yes there were a few
2012-02-11T01:04:17 < Laurenceb_> aiui they are no longer manfactured
2012-02-11T01:04:18 < zyp> was an ARM core combined with hardware correlators
2012-02-11T01:04:22 < Laurenceb_> also they were lame
2012-02-11T01:04:26 < Laurenceb_> on the ST thing
2012-02-11T01:04:33 < Laurenceb_> the datasheet for that is NDA
2012-02-11T01:04:46 < zyp> yeah, I'd assume so
2012-02-11T01:04:56 < Laurenceb_> you might actually be able to hack a ublox5/6
2012-02-11T01:05:03 < Laurenceb_> it might be the easiest way
2012-02-11T01:05:25 < Laurenceb_> i think you can turn off position solutions and extract raw tracking data with UBX
2012-02-11T01:05:51 < Laurenceb_> that would allow the processor to just integrate the raw data into the imu
2012-02-11T01:06:11 < Laurenceb_> need to read the ubx specification again
2012-02-11T01:06:29 < zyp> I think you have to buy a chipset with that particular option
2012-02-11T01:09:55 < Laurenceb_> yeah the precision timing one
2012-02-11T01:10:14 < Laurenceb_> someone did the same thing using a high end trimble receiver, and an atmega !
2012-02-11T01:12:00 < Laurenceb_> http://shop-emea.u-blox.com/abashop?s=274&p=productdetail&sku=863
2012-02-11T01:12:16 < Laurenceb_> i think someone from #highaltitude could get one cheaper
2012-02-11T01:13:20 <+Steffanx> What a crappy website Laurenceb
2012-02-11T01:13:27 <+Steffanx> It redirects me to another page
2012-02-11T01:17:31 < Laurenceb_> "The LEA-6T supports raw data output at an update rate of 5 Hz."
2012-02-11T01:17:49 < Laurenceb_> that sucks - ive got a ublox4 and persuaded it to output at 10hz
2012-02-11T01:19:09 < Laurenceb_> having said that, if you increase the pll bandwidth to much more than 20hz it can lose lock
2012-02-11T01:19:27 < Laurenceb_> ive had software gps running in matlab with the SiGe sampler from sparkfun
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2012-02-11T07:56:39  * flyback- http://youtu.be/FKrsAFWPnl4?t=2m31s <--- I GOT WHAT I WANTED FOR XMAS
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2012-02-11T13:33:29 <+izua> http://memebase.com/2012/02/09/internet-memes-fandom-base-worse-than-a-dragon/
2012-02-11T13:36:34 <+Steffanx> What is that for bullshit izua ?
2012-02-11T13:36:56 <+izua> whoops, wrong channel
2012-02-11T13:37:01 <+izua> but i lold at the reference
2012-02-11T13:37:28 <+Steffanx> I guess i don't know my memes..
2012-02-11T13:37:33 <+Steffanx> but i don't care, memes are silly
2012-02-11T13:37:47 <+Steffanx> *most of them at least
2012-02-11T13:38:12 <+izua> ah know, it's a video of wheatley from portal2 found somewhere in skyrim
2012-02-11T13:38:14 < Thorn> I finally installed the latest codebench lite today and it doesn't compile cmsis
2012-02-11T13:38:27 < Thorn> anyone seen that?
2012-02-11T13:38:42 <+Steffanx> Nope
2012-02-11T13:39:39 < Thorn> it complains about assembly usage in __STREXB() and __STREXH() (core_cm3.c)
2012-02-11T13:40:22 < Thorn> found solution here http://nemuisan.blog.bai.ne.jp/?eid=192285
2012-02-11T13:44:25 <+Steffanx> How good is your japanese? :)
2012-02-11T13:46:32 < Thorn> let's say it can be much improved by using google translate :)
2012-02-11T13:51:04 < Thorn> btw I didn't know you could force a variable into a specific register like that
2012-02-11T13:51:12 < Thorn> in gcc
2012-02-11T13:52:45 <+Steffanx> I do, but never used it
2012-02-11T13:56:10 < zyp> yeah, why would you?
2012-02-11T13:57:29 < zyp> the compiler is better than you to keep track of register allocation anyway
2012-02-11T13:58:33 < Thorn> it seems quite useful together with inline assembly
2012-02-11T13:59:10 < zyp> not really
2012-02-11T14:04:45 < Thorn> like in this example, otherwise it would optimize too much and place both value and result into r0 which would lead to in strex* r0, r0, [r1] which is apparently not allowed (unpredictable results)
2012-02-11T14:14:37 < Thorn> you could probably work around that by using value again after the strex but that would be a hack
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2012-02-11T14:36:58 < Thorn> btw, iteadstudio offers 4 layer 5x5cm for $65
2012-02-11T14:37:06 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2012-02-11T15:16:17 -!- Elledan is now known as hackkitten
2012-02-11T15:21:41 < Laurenceb_> iStore
2012-02-11T15:21:44 < Laurenceb_> seriously...
2012-02-11T15:22:45 <+Steffanx> Apple style :)
2012-02-11T15:24:41 < Laurenceb_> looks similar to seeedstudio
2012-02-11T15:24:53 < Laurenceb_> 8 boards not 10, but 100% e test
2012-02-11T15:25:16 < Laurenceb_> ive been ordering a lot from pcbtrain, but they just shipped me a load of faulty boards
2012-02-11T15:26:31 <+Steffanx> I don't even know them
2012-02-11T15:27:58 < Laurenceb_> uk based supplier
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2012-02-11T16:49:26 <+izua> they're still training
2012-02-11T16:52:47 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-11T17:35:43 <+izua> pcb train
2012-02-11T17:35:44 <+izua> etc
2012-02-11T17:43:20 <+Steffanx> aaah
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2012-02-11T19:12:44 <+dekar__> I have never worked with those realtime clocks, can I use them to get 1ms interrupts on my stm32 using a 32768hz source?
2012-02-11T19:14:17 <+Steffanx> me neither, but i would be surprised if you can't
2012-02-11T19:14:51 <+Steffanx> Can't you use the system_clock/timer/whatever it's called for that dekar__ ?
2012-02-11T19:15:18 <+Steffanx> instead of the rtc
2012-02-11T19:15:32 <+dekar__> yeah I also could use the timers or systick (which is just another timer, isn't it?)
2012-02-11T19:15:40 <+Steffanx> systick indeed
2012-02-11T19:16:21 <+dekar__> but our EE guy fitted an RTC clocksource so I thought why not use it, it's probably more precise
2012-02-11T19:16:24 <+Steffanx> I used that for my project. I also used it for ms-delays :)
2012-02-11T19:16:52 <+Steffanx> Oh, ok
2012-02-11T19:17:02 <+dekar__> not that it matters
2012-02-11T19:17:18 <+dekar__> I guess I am lazy and thus will keep using the systick
2012-02-11T19:17:26 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but something have to be done.. because you can :)
2012-02-11T19:18:11 <+dekar__> it was just that he was checking my board with a scope and the only defect he reported was that the clock source isn't resonating any clock
2012-02-11T19:18:39 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-11T19:18:49 <+dekar__> well I never turned it on I guess
2012-02-11T19:20:31 <+dekar__> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/APPLICATION_NOTE/DM00025071.pdf
2012-02-11T19:20:39 <+dekar__> page 11 says I can't do it
2012-02-11T19:20:58 <+dekar__> just 500ms 250ms and 125ms
2012-02-11T19:21:13 <+dekar__> and well 1/16th of a second and so on
2012-02-11T19:22:20 <+dekar__> that's so useless -.-"
2012-02-11T19:23:27 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-02-11T19:29:05 < Laurenceb_> huh
2012-02-11T19:29:12 < Laurenceb_> there an RTC timer on the stm32
2012-02-11T19:29:16 < Laurenceb_> i just use that
2012-02-11T19:30:03 <+dekar__> but you can't get 1ms interrupts from it, can you?
2012-02-11T19:30:29 < Laurenceb_> nope
2012-02-11T19:30:38 < Laurenceb_> sorry - didnt read everything :P
2012-02-11T19:31:22 <+dekar__> then I have absolutely no use for that part of hardware XD
2012-02-11T19:31:35 <+dekar__> I told our EE guy I wouldn't need it and he still fitted it
2012-02-11T19:32:44 <+Steffanx> It's only a xtal..
2012-02-11T19:32:46 <+Steffanx> or not?
2012-02-11T19:32:58 <+Steffanx> Don't place it on the pcb
2012-02-11T19:33:36 <+dekar__> it's some really really small smd crystal
2012-02-11T19:33:42 <+dekar__> and it has been placed
2012-02-11T19:34:37 <+dekar__> w/e, it probably is just a few cents
2012-02-11T19:35:18 <+Steffanx> You don't make 100.000 of them..
2012-02-11T19:36:02 <+dekar__> 250
2012-02-11T19:37:49 <+dekar__> tbh I didn't really understand how to interpret what you just said, you mean it doesn't matter since we don't make many, or it won't be cheap since we don't make many?
2012-02-11T19:38:23 <+Steffanx> It wont be expensive because you only make 250 :)
2012-02-11T19:38:49 <+Steffanx> but it's fancy to have empty spots on a pcb P:
2012-02-11T19:43:52 <+dekar__> you mean I should get a screwdriver and forcefully break them off the board to make it look more fancy? :D
2012-02-11T19:44:11 <+Steffanx> You have a hot air station :P
2012-02-11T19:44:40 <+dekar__> how much do you think I'll get for 250 used crystals on ebay?
2012-02-11T19:44:43 <+dekar__> XD
2012-02-11T19:53:28 <+izua> why can't you get an interrupt from all the other timers?
2012-02-11T19:53:34 <+izua> just set one up to overflow ever 1ms
2012-02-11T19:53:38 <+izua> every*
2012-02-11T19:54:03 <+dekar__> izua, that's what I did before, I just felt like using that piece of hardware I wasn't using so far
2012-02-11T19:54:11 <+dekar__> w/e
2012-02-11T20:00:14 <+izua> that timer basically works when the device ain't powered
2012-02-11T20:00:17 <+izua> still clocking/etc
2012-02-11T20:00:27 <+izua> nad uses a dedicated crystal
2012-02-11T20:00:32 <+izua> that's about all that's different
2012-02-11T20:08:26 < Thorn> some rtc chips allow clock rate adjustment iirc for best accuracy
2012-02-11T20:09:13 <+izua> maxim had some really neat rtc chips
2012-02-11T20:09:19 <+izua> which included an on-chip battery
2012-02-11T20:09:37 <+izua> and they all were preprogrammed at UTC
2012-02-11T20:10:33 < Thorn> so you buy a running clock set to correct time? that's neat
2012-02-11T20:11:59 < Thorn> I bought some 0.33F "super"caps for rtc (ds1337u) backup
2012-02-11T20:12:09 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: +Steffanx
2012-02-11T20:12:09 < Thorn> should last for a few days
2012-02-11T20:12:53 <+izua> there was some video with the msp430 iirc, and a lcd, which was left running for weeks :D
2012-02-11T20:13:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: +Steffanx
2012-02-11T20:14:39 <+izua> activated carbon is awesome
2012-02-11T20:18:09 < Thorn> how do you do an mcu-controlled adjustable current sink?
2012-02-11T20:18:54 <+izua> pwm into a low-side transistor?
2012-02-11T20:19:06 <+izua> drop in a sense resistor too, so you could get some feedback
2012-02-11T20:23:13 < Thorn> should be possible, with a filter
2012-02-11T20:44:02 < jpa-> or use the DAC :)
2012-02-11T20:50:25 <+Steffanx> Or use the DAC
2012-02-11T20:54:08 < Thorn> speaking of transistors, why the hell do I always forget base resistors
2012-02-11T20:54:17 < Thorn> thankfully nothing fried this time
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2012-02-11T22:23:36 < flyback-> whoa
2012-02-11T22:23:45 < flyback-> stm32f4 has several ADC and DAC's right
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2012-02-11T22:27:41 < Laurenceb_> flyback-: you dont say
2012-02-11T22:27:46 < flyback-> no I am asking
2012-02-11T22:28:27 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-02-11T22:29:30 <+Steffanx> The one on the stm32f4discovery has 3 ADC's and 2 ADC's
2012-02-11T22:29:35 <+Steffanx> *2 DAC's
2012-02-11T22:31:34 < flyback-> cause I was posting about that floppy emulator that guy made
2012-02-11T22:31:43 < flyback-> and wondering if mabye stm32 would be a good choiced
2012-02-11T22:31:47 < flyback-> although m0 would probably be better
2012-02-11T22:31:52 < flyback-> f4 is overkillk
2012-02-11T22:32:39 < BrainDamage> stm32F1 would be fine
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2012-02-11T23:10:42 <+dekar__> there's only so many ADC, but you can switch them around between many pins really fast. I think I read 8 ADC values
2012-02-11T23:14:57 <+dekar__> Yeah I'm sampling 8 pins using a single ADC
2012-02-11T23:15:43 < Thorn> how much noise do you see?
2012-02-11T23:17:03 <+dekar__> barely any, +/- 2-3 at most
2012-02-11T23:17:22 <+dekar__> and that might be caused by actual noise my hardware generates
2012-02-11T23:19:35 < Thorn> on my olimex board I get 10-12 units amplitude. sometimes it's smaller after a reset, no other correlation
2012-02-11T23:20:50 < Thorn> even leds turning on/off generate noise spikes
2012-02-11T23:22:50 < Laurenceb_> hmm interesting
2012-02-11T23:23:00 < Laurenceb_> i see massive glitches from gpio
2012-02-11T23:23:07 < Laurenceb_> but i think i damaged the adc
2012-02-11T23:23:26 < Laurenceb_> by applying power with 0v to analogue vcc
2012-02-11T23:24:20 < Thorn> this board has all the reasonably expected filtering etc, it's not some cheap Chinese one (I should try those too)
2012-02-11T23:24:31 <+dekar__> http://pastebin.com/V5rPMZN9 is my USB voltage after voltage divider
2012-02-11T23:24:40 <+dekar__> barely any glitches
2012-02-11T23:24:48 < Thorn> I tried measuring a pot and a voltage reference, same noise
2012-02-11T23:25:25 < Thorn> the pot noise reduced somewhat after I connected it between Vref+ and Vref-
2012-02-11T23:26:11 < Thorn> unfortunately the board doesn't allow connecting a reference to Vref+ without removing a 0402 resistor
2012-02-11T23:27:30 < Thorn> but the pot is under reference voltage so I'd expect noise to more or less cancel
2012-02-11T23:28:43 < Thorn> maybe it's gpio current which generates this noise? onboard leds are connected directly to the mcu
2012-02-11T23:28:48 <+dekar__> I don't use VREF
2012-02-11T23:30:09 <+dekar__> what is vref supposed to do? help in case your 3V3 is noisy?
2012-02-11T23:31:01 <+izua> usually you discard 2-3 LSBs on an ADC if you want a stable signal, or apply a software filter
2012-02-11T23:31:17 <+dekar__> since my board is usb powered I would assume 3V3 is reasonably stable anyway, and I got bigger problems when 5V0 comes down
2012-02-11T23:31:50 <+izua> vref is used if you want to measure a different voltage, say 1v8, using the whole headroom in the ADC
2012-02-11T23:32:05 <+dekar__> ah I see :)
2012-02-11T23:32:44 <+izua> if you'd get as 0x7F on a vref of 3v3 you'd get as 0xFF on a vref of 1v8, for example
2012-02-11T23:32:58 <+izua> a value of*, etc
2012-02-11T23:33:03 < Thorn> all ADcs measure input voltage relative to Vref
2012-02-11T23:33:24 <+izua> and my oil radiator just made a funny noise
2012-02-11T23:33:30 <+izua> and now something smells fried
2012-02-11T23:37:41 <+dekar__> Thorn, which sample time are you using? I set mine to ADC_SampleTime_13Cycles5
2012-02-11T23:38:31 < Thorn> same as I use (tries different ones, no difference)
2012-02-11T23:39:19 < Thorn> I should try an external adc in the same circuit, got some microchip 12-bit ones
2012-02-11T23:39:40 <+dekar__> or just try a scope and see if you have some noise there as well
2012-02-11T23:41:02 < Thorn> scope is one thing that I unforrtunately still don't have
2012-02-11T23:47:09 < Thorn> got one huge spike of about 50-70 on the graph
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2012-02-12T00:24:16 < Laurenceb_> i was using 1.5clks
2012-02-12T00:24:28 < Laurenceb_> and seeing ~4lsb noise, before i fried the adc
2012-02-12T00:24:41 < Laurenceb_> this was on F1
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2012-02-12T01:20:02 <+dekar__> how did you fry it? static?
2012-02-12T01:27:53 < Laurenceb_> incorrect power supply sequencing
2012-02-12T01:28:00 <+Steffanx> ?!
2012-02-12T01:28:15 < Laurenceb_> VCC_analogue didnt switch over to the ldo reg on shutdown
2012-02-12T01:28:23 < Laurenceb_> so it got 0v
2012-02-12T01:29:09 <+Steffanx> Can't you just hook the ADC to 0V ?
2012-02-12T01:29:11 < Laurenceb_> and 3v on the digital pins
2012-02-12T01:29:18 < Laurenceb_> no - youll fry it
2012-02-12T01:30:12 < Laurenceb_> has to be within 300mv of the digital rail
2012-02-12T01:30:39 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-12T01:30:53 < Laurenceb_> the analogue rail
2012-02-12T01:30:58 <+Steffanx> Oh, you are talking about the reference voltage?
2012-02-12T01:33:01 < Laurenceb_> no
2012-02-12T01:33:06 < Laurenceb_> the supply pin
2012-02-12T01:33:18 <+Steffanx> hm ok :P
2012-02-12T01:34:57 <+Steffanx> Anyway, good luck with your ADC :P
2012-02-12T01:34:59 <+Steffanx> Good night
2012-02-12T01:35:53 < Laurenceb_> cya
2012-02-12T01:36:11 < Laurenceb_> yeah i redesigned the pcb to fix the issue
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2012-02-12T03:20:35  * flyback- whitney houston is dead
2012-02-12T03:30:25 < Tom_itx> who is she?
2012-02-12T03:33:18 < flyback-> you don't know
2012-02-12T03:33:31 < flyback-> and i'iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii will always love you .....
2012-02-12T03:33:37 < flyback-> the chick in "the bodyguard"
2012-02-12T03:33:46 < Tom_itx> ?
2012-02-12T03:34:19 < flyback-> wow
2012-02-12T03:34:24 < flyback-> and I thought I had a sheltered life
2012-02-12T03:34:34 < Tom_itx> dude, i met her Aunt Dion
2012-02-12T03:34:55 < Tom_itx> i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it was drug related
2012-02-12T03:35:06 < flyback-> yeah
2012-02-12T03:35:08 < flyback-> I would agree
2012-02-12T03:35:15 < flyback-> or the drugs did damage that caught up
2012-02-12T03:35:22 < flyback-> even if she's been clean for yrs
2012-02-12T03:35:30 < flyback-> if you look in her face etc after all the drugs stuff etc
2012-02-12T03:35:32 < flyback-> you could tell
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2012-02-12T16:06:18 < jpa-> apparently stlink doesn't work if the cable is not connected :)
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2012-02-12T17:58:58 < ureif> sometimes it doesn't work even after the cable is connected
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2012-02-12T18:21:12 <+dekar__> demand your money back then
2012-02-12T18:29:49 < Laurenceb_> arm cortex has single cycle 32 bit multiply right?
2012-02-12T18:30:04 < Laurenceb_> but what happens if it overflows?
2012-02-12T18:30:20 < Laurenceb_> does it overflow into a second register or something?
2012-02-12T18:43:38 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: yeah, it has two result registers
2012-02-12T18:43:49 < jpa-> i.e. 32bits inputs, 64bit output
2012-02-12T18:43:53 < Laurenceb_> neat
2012-02-12T18:44:05 < jpa-> (btw, it also has single-cycle multiply-accumulate and multiply-subtract)
2012-02-12T18:59:40 < ureif> does it have that barrel shifter thing the NXP ARMs have ?
2012-02-12T18:59:47 < ureif> ARM7 I guess.
2012-02-12T19:03:01 < jpa-> a single cycle shift by n? yeah, it does
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2012-02-12T20:22:21 < Thorn> why seeedstudio price jumps up so much beyond 10x10cm? 10x10=$25, 10x15=$70
2012-02-12T20:22:55 <+Steffanx> idk
2012-02-12T20:26:13 < Thorn> there's no chance my kitchen sink project is going to fit into 10x10cm
2012-02-12T20:26:57 <+Steffanx> Make it modular ?
2012-02-12T20:36:41 <+izua> you're making one of those colored water based on temperature kitchen sinks?
2012-02-12T20:38:37 < jpa-> itead has 10x15 for $48
2012-02-12T20:39:11 <+Steffanx> in the iStore :)
2012-02-12T20:40:15 <+izua> want to buy some iWater?
2012-02-12T20:40:28 <+Steffanx> 5pcs jpa- :)
2012-02-12T20:40:42 <+izua> http://cdn2.techie-buzz.com/images2/keith/Introducing-Apple-iWater-Geeky-Fun_FCF1/apple_iwater.jpg
2012-02-12T20:40:42 < jpa-> normal people have only 2 sinks
2012-02-12T20:41:53 < jpa-> yay now it works  http://essentialscrap.com/dsoquad/logic.html
2012-02-12T20:43:02 < Thorn> and I still have >10 free pins
2012-02-12T20:43:43 <+Steffanx> Nice jpa-
2012-02-12T20:43:52 <+izua> neat
2012-02-12T20:44:22 < jpa-> have to make some use out of the device :D
2012-02-12T20:46:29 < jpa-> based on that experience, C++ seems quite well suited to run on the STM32F1
2012-02-12T20:46:36 < jpa-> even vectors don't add that much overhead
2012-02-12T20:49:25 <+Steffanx> Hmm, you did some C++ for the stm32f1 ? Examples?
2012-02-12T20:49:27 <+Steffanx> Online
2012-02-12T20:50:05 <+Steffanx> Ah, there it is
2012-02-12T20:51:08 < jpa-> ah crap
2012-02-12T20:51:46 < jpa-> fixed the link :)
2012-02-12T20:52:07 <+Steffanx> You even used malloc etc. ?
2012-02-12T20:52:40 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-12T20:52:50 < jpa-> baselibc's, not newlib's
2012-02-12T20:53:07 <+Steffanx> Best function ever: crash_with_message
2012-02-12T20:53:51 < jpa-> this is probably the most complex class in that app: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/dsoquad/logic/gui/xposhandler.hh
2012-02-12T20:54:46 <+Steffanx> zyp did some c++ work on stm32's too. He even made classes for 'everything'
2012-02-12T20:55:06 <+Steffanx> SPI, GPIO, Pins … iirc
2012-02-12T20:55:11 < jpa-> nice
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2012-02-12T20:55:30 < zyp> well
2012-02-12T20:55:33 <+Steffanx> I'm sort of copying, more rewriting it myself, to test it
2012-02-12T20:55:39 <+Steffanx> Well
2012-02-12T20:55:50 < Thorn> you aren't using constructors or destructors?
2012-02-12T20:56:27 < jpa-> Thorn: not global ones, but local yeah
2012-02-12T20:56:45 < zyp> I'm avoiding constructors and destructors on classes that will be used as global objects
2012-02-12T20:57:10 < jpa-> yeah, they are a bit of linker script pain
2012-02-12T20:57:14 < Thorn> I don's see any _init / _fini (or however they're called) sections in your linked scripts
2012-02-12T20:57:19 < jpa-> very useful sometimes though
2012-02-12T20:57:43 < zyp> not really, but you can't do much when you don't know which other objects are constructed or not.
2012-02-12T20:57:45 < jpa-> Thorn: yeah, they are needed for global constructors (run at startup) only
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2012-02-12T20:59:35 < Thorn> there're also vtables, where are they, .data?
2012-02-12T21:00:24 < jpa-> should be in rom
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2012-02-12T21:01:24 < jpa-> they are in .text apparently
2012-02-12T21:02:07 < Thorn> right
2012-02-12T21:02:44 < Thorn> I assume you haven't tried using std::string, have you? :)
2012-02-12T21:02:51 <+Steffanx> You say you don't use constructors for global objects.. Initialization Lists don't count as constructors?
2012-02-12T21:02:55 <+Steffanx> @ zyp
2012-02-12T21:04:52 < jpa-> Thorn: i was fine with C strings; mostly because snprintf is easier with them, and stringstreams is a horrible bloat
2012-02-12T21:07:43 <+Steffanx> zyp ?
2012-02-12T21:12:02 < zyp> huh?
2012-02-12T21:13:08 <+Steffanx> I mean this: static Pin PA0(GPIOA, 0); .. that looks like a global object with constructor/initialization list to me
2012-02-12T21:13:15 < zyp> sure, it is
2012-02-12T21:13:29 < jpa-> he is not successful in avoiding them :)
2012-02-12T21:13:39 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that's sort of my point
2012-02-12T21:13:41 < zyp> but it doesn't compile to one
2012-02-12T21:13:47 <+Steffanx> Ah :)
2012-02-12T21:14:15 <+Steffanx> Because of the constants?
2012-02-12T21:14:45 < zyp> first of all, PA0 is static, and the implementation is header only, so every member function in that gets inlined
2012-02-12T21:15:08 < zyp> so the object consumes no memory and requires no initialization
2012-02-12T21:15:53 <+Steffanx> Ok, so the same thing happens with for example the i2c class you made?
2012-02-12T21:15:53 < zyp> I have initalizer lists on most objects that are initialized
2012-02-12T21:17:13 < zyp> but when all values in the initializer list are constants known at compile time, the object gets thrown into .data
2012-02-12T21:18:34 < zyp> you can take a look at http://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/drivers/itg3200.h for instance
2012-02-12T21:20:14 <+Steffanx> I already did.. I 'studied' your code :)
2012-02-12T21:20:22 < zyp> if you instance that as a global object, the i2c_bus reference will also be to a global object, so the address of that is known at compile time, and is put into the i2c member variable
2012-02-12T21:21:03 < zyp> so the compiler should optimize out the constructor and just emit the object as four bytes in .data
2012-02-12T21:21:20 < Laurenceb_> but non of this will stop the i2c breaking
2012-02-12T21:21:31 < zyp> irrelevant :p
2012-02-12T21:21:46 <+Steffanx> Isn't the only time when it's 'unknown' is when you use 'new'?
2012-02-12T21:22:17 < zyp> you can also allocate it on stack
2012-02-12T21:22:49 <+Steffanx> Ah yeah, I forgot about that
2012-02-12T21:22:52 < zyp> but either way, as long as the compiler can see both the body of the constructor and the values going into it, the constructor can always be optimized out
2012-02-12T21:23:08 < zyp> that's why it's in the header
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2012-02-12T21:42:24 <+izua> hmm
2012-02-12T21:42:50 <+Steffanx> mmh
2012-02-12T21:43:11 <+izua> how much overhead does c++ actually add (assuming you'll just do oop for the sake of doing it and having a 'nicer' structure)
2012-02-12T21:43:19 < zyp> none
2012-02-12T21:43:21 <+izua> ie, having a known number of instances
2012-02-12T21:43:34 < zyp> why would C++ add any overhead?
2012-02-12T21:43:46 <+Steffanx> People say it's bloated
2012-02-12T21:43:49 <+Steffanx> for uc's
2012-02-12T21:43:59 <+izua> because you'd need common code to process common stuff?
2012-02-12T21:44:43 <+izua> by that logic, having an empty main() in C should result in a single infinite loop, etc
2012-02-12T21:44:47 < zyp> at the very base C++ is an extension of C
2012-02-12T21:44:59 <+izua> you don't say?
2012-02-12T21:45:08 <+izua> i always thought it evolved from basic xD
2012-02-12T21:45:32 < zyp> barring some C99 features, all C code will compile as C++ and should compile to pretty much the exact same machine code
2012-02-12T21:46:02 < zyp> that's why I can claim that C++ does not add any overhead by itself over C
2012-02-12T21:46:08 <+izua> i've seen oop behaviour done in C with macros alone, and i've done some odd polymorphism myself, with unions of structs
2012-02-12T21:46:18 <+Steffanx> Yay
2012-02-12T21:46:23 <+izua> but i'm not sure exactly what happens under the hood with C++
2012-02-12T21:46:38 <+Steffanx> That sounds as bad as dekar and his usb inside a browser stuff izua :P
2012-02-12T21:46:47 <+izua> yes i know xD
2012-02-12T21:46:55 <+Steffanx> i mean dekar__
2012-02-12T21:47:13 <+izua> but you figure out a way to make a programatic menu without oop
2012-02-12T21:47:34 < zyp> with polymorphism you get an implicit vtable, which is pretty much an array of function pointers, so it's as efficient as an array or struct of function pointers
2012-02-12T21:48:52 < zyp> you can probably argue that an average line of C++ generates more machine code than an average line of C, but that's because you can do the same in C++ as in C with fewer lines of code :p
2012-02-12T21:49:55 <+Steffanx> You can?
2012-02-12T21:51:22 <+izua> he's doing it right now ;P
2012-02-12T21:51:52 <+izua> the meta joke being this: http://imgur.com/Aswmv
2012-02-12T21:52:19 < zyp> whatever you want to do, it's machine code when it's done, so what you want to do is generate a piece of machine code with least developer effort
2012-02-12T21:52:56 < zyp> and the more work the language does for you, the less work you have to do as a developer
2012-02-12T21:53:27 <+izua> i tend to want to develop the piece of machine code that i can vouch for, in terms of actually knowing that some odd language spec won't fuck me up
2012-02-12T21:53:29 <+Steffanx> The slower it gets
2012-02-12T21:53:55 <+izua> vouching for your product is sort of a requirment when it starts controlling hardware
2012-02-12T21:54:33  * izua still writes inline assembly for avrs from time to time
2012-02-12T21:54:42 < zyp> ew
2012-02-12T21:54:43 < zyp> :p
2012-02-12T21:54:44 <+Steffanx> Weird guy
2012-02-12T21:54:55 <+Steffanx> That's like writing a usb driver for a browser izua
2012-02-12T21:55:27 <+Steffanx> Sorry, I have to repeat that over and over again
2012-02-12T21:56:06 <+izua> it's not a driver
2012-02-12T21:56:14 <+izua> it's sort of an interface between the usb layer and the browser
2012-02-12T21:56:19 <+Steffanx> It's a 'hack' whatever you want to call it
2012-02-12T21:56:21 <+izua> a driver driver in a brwoser
2012-02-12T21:56:26 <+izua> xzibit would be proud
2012-02-12T22:01:17 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2012-02-12T22:02:57 < Thorn> anyone soldered a microsd socket?
2012-02-12T22:03:07  * izua raises hand
2012-02-12T22:03:13 <+izua> i even soldered wires on one
2012-02-12T22:03:59 < Thorn> I somehow assumed they can be disassembled for soldering but it doesn't appear to be the case
2012-02-12T22:04:35 < Thorn> that would be the first step towards the arduino.
2012-02-12T22:06:01 < Thorn> izua: how did you do it, hot air?
2012-02-12T22:06:03 <+izua> Thorn: get a microsd to sd adapter
2012-02-12T22:06:23 <+izua> solder header pins on the sd adapter, the contacts are spaced close to 2.54mm
2012-02-12T22:06:29 <+izua> you can stick that in a breadboard, instantwin
2012-02-12T22:06:38 <+izua> nah, your average soldering iron
2012-02-12T22:06:48 < Thorn> the idea is to install a microsd socket onto a pcb I'm designing
2012-02-12T22:06:59 <+izua> ah
2012-02-12T22:07:16 <+izua> you'd need to find one that can be hand soldered, since they usually have the contacts underneath (mlf style)
2012-02-12T22:07:42 <+izua> if that's not the case, flux the traces (where there isn't any laquer on top) and the pins
2012-02-12T22:07:47 <+izua> and then _gently_ heat the trace
2012-02-12T22:07:49 < Laurenceb_> i use the sparkfun footprint
2012-02-12T22:07:51 < Thorn> so far all I've seen are like this, at best they have tiny windows over contacts
2012-02-12T22:08:02 < Laurenceb_> theres lots of adaptors that fit the same footprint
2012-02-12T22:08:08 < Laurenceb_> you can hand solder all of them
2012-02-12T22:08:24 <+izua> it will smell like burnt plastic xD
2012-02-12T22:08:44 < Laurenceb_> yeah put the iron through the windows to wolder
2012-02-12T22:08:47 < Laurenceb_> *solder
2012-02-12T22:10:32 < Thorn> I ordered these http://www.promelec.ru/pdf/TFC-WPCP-08.pdf
2012-02-12T22:12:32 <+dekar__> izua, Steffanx zyp the moment you start using C++ you get all the exception and stack unwinding stuff - that's definitively some overhead
2012-02-12T22:13:46 <+dekar__> I also wouldn't use vectors and the like since they excessively use the heap
2012-02-12T22:14:01 < Thorn> -fno-exceptions
2012-02-12T22:14:07 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-02-12T22:14:30 < Thorn> they promised -fno-bloat in 4.8
2012-02-12T22:14:47 <+dekar__> well that makes it so much better, new() failing and the program not throwing - it probably goes directly into a while(1);
2012-02-12T22:15:05 < Thorn> set_new_handler()?
2012-02-12T22:15:44 <+dekar__> you can also do (std::nothrow) iirc
2012-02-12T22:15:53 < Thorn> anyway there's placement new, you can do char placeholder[sizeof(MyClass)]; new (placeholder) MyClass();
2012-02-12T22:16:13 <+dekar__> you can't do that if you use a vector
2012-02-12T22:16:23 <+dekar__> it will call new all the time
2012-02-12T22:16:34 <+dekar__> myVector.append(xy); will call new
2012-02-12T22:17:19 <+dekar__> besides that just adding <iostream> and <vector> to my firmware made it grow 150kb
2012-02-12T22:17:31 <+dekar__> was some codesourcery about a year ago
2012-02-12T22:18:02 < Thorn> iostream is huge but I've seen the beginnings of an alternative implementation
2012-02-12T22:18:21 < Thorn> (mcu friendly)
2012-02-12T22:19:21 <+dekar__> you need <iostream> if you want to do conversions the C++ way
2012-02-12T22:19:49 <+dekar__> I think you can use all of that if you got an upper class stm32, but I wasn't too convinced when I did
2012-02-12T22:21:22 <+dekar__> zyp, C++ is not an extension of C, it's just very similar
2012-02-12T22:21:32 <+dekar__> there's actually a ton of differences
2012-02-12T22:23:34 <+dekar__> izua, if you're careful with heap usage and avoid std:: stuff you should be fine, but missing out on vector and the like is a big loss imo
2012-02-12T22:28:15 < zippe> I have been working on a uSTL port for M3/M4 for a while now
2012-02-12T22:28:15 < zyp> dekar__, which non-C99 code is not valid C++?
2012-02-12T22:28:38 < zippe> zyp:  struct class { int a; };
2012-02-12T22:28:55 < zyp> except reserved words, obviously :p
2012-02-12T22:29:20 <+dekar__> I don't know all the cases, but I remember stuff like "static myVar = 0" which implicitly is an int
2012-02-12T22:29:23 < zippe> zyp: then non of it, except for the parts that aren't.
2012-02-12T22:29:51 <+dekar__> and "char myArray[mySize];" (dynamic array size)
2012-02-12T22:30:11 < zippe> dynamic array sizing is a gccism
2012-02-12T22:30:11 <+dekar__> there is stuff even without C99
2012-02-12T22:30:38 <+dekar__> zippe, what do you mean? gcc supports it anyway on C++?
2012-02-12T22:30:42 < zippe> c++ in general hates arrays, so things like designated initialisers don't work
2012-02-12T22:30:51 <+dekar__> maybe, still no valid C98
2012-02-12T22:30:57 <+dekar__> C++98
2012-02-12T22:31:10 < zippe> Regardless, this is all hair splitting
2012-02-12T22:31:23 < zippe> Back to the fun part; if you want a small STL, you should look at uSTL
2012-02-12T22:31:43 < zippe> You might find it easier to lift an older version from eCos rather than trying to get the latest versions going
2012-02-12T22:31:59 <+dekar__> zippe, I know it's hair splitting - but C++ just isn't an extension of C :/
2012-02-12T22:32:54 <+dekar__> http://david.tribble.com/text/cdiffs.htm
2012-02-12T22:33:00 <+dekar__> that's quite a lot!
2012-02-12T22:33:58 < zyp> well, duh, that list includes features which are new in C++
2012-02-12T22:34:14 < zyp> no, I misread
2012-02-12T22:34:21 < zyp> sorry
2012-02-12T22:34:23 <+izua> <% is {
2012-02-12T22:34:24 <+izua> lol
2012-02-12T22:34:29 <+izua> you've got to be joking
2012-02-12T22:34:42 <+izua> i'm gonna register in that obfuscation contest
2012-02-12T22:35:30 < zyp> no, I was right, the list includes some stuff that are supported in C++ but not C
2012-02-12T22:36:44 <+dekar__> just remembered after reading that list, the implicit declaration stuff is annoying in C90
2012-02-12T22:36:51 <+dekar__> I have seen code using it before -.-"
2012-02-12T22:37:00 <+izua> using <%
2012-02-12T22:37:01 <+izua> lol?
2012-02-12T22:37:03 <+izua> really?
2012-02-12T22:37:08 <+dekar__> nope lol
2012-02-12T22:37:17 <+dekar__> but not providing function prototypes
2012-02-12T22:37:19 < zyp> anyway, what I said is «at the very base, it's an extension»
2012-02-12T22:37:35 < zyp> they took the same syntax, removed some shit and added lots of new shit
2012-02-12T22:37:41 <+dekar__> it's a different language
2012-02-12T22:37:42 <+izua> worst thing i know is of a guy googling "^ | &" for C bitwise stuff
2012-02-12T22:37:45 <+izua> and google being google
2012-02-12T22:37:48 <+izua> and not returing anything
2012-02-12T22:37:54 <+dekar__> java isn't an extension of C as well
2012-02-12T22:38:19 < zyp> dekar__, but in the real world most C code compiles as C++
2012-02-12T22:38:28 <+dekar__> agree
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2012-02-12T22:38:57 < zyp> and that's what was relevant to my point
2012-02-12T22:39:06 <+dekar__> but you even have a different linker format -.-"
2012-02-12T22:39:21 <+dekar__> I still think there is a relevant difference
2012-02-12T22:41:08 < zyp> my point was that the same code (obviously not using features incompatible with neither C nor C++) will produce pretty much the same machine code regardless of being compiled as C or C++
2012-02-12T22:42:55 < zyp> any features that C++ add over what's available in C is optional to use and does not add overhead when not used
2012-02-12T22:43:55 <+dekar__> I don't think the standard says exceptions are optional, though GCC allows you to strip them
2012-02-12T22:44:16 <+dekar__> g++ adds additional sections for them iirc
2012-02-12T22:45:20 < zippe> There are several different exception handling implementations
2012-02-12T22:45:35 < zippe> The two major players these days are the itanium and EABI versions
2012-02-12T22:45:49 < zippe> And on some platforms, people are still using setmp/jongjmp
2012-02-12T22:46:50 <+dekar__> well there has to be additional code for stack unwinding at least
2012-02-12T22:47:57 <+dekar__> but since we all mostly agree, I don't think we have to keep discussing it. I say it's a different but similar language, and most of you say it is similar to a point it can be seen as an expanded version of C. I get your point :)
2012-02-12T22:50:28 < zyp> what I'm saying is that extra overhead is not a reason to not use C++ for MCUs, because it don't add any extra overhead just by being C++
2012-02-12T22:51:02 <+dekar__> so why is there -fno-exceptions then?
2012-02-12T22:51:49 < zyp> what do you think happens if there is not a single line of anything exception-related in the code base?
2012-02-12T22:52:00 < zippe> Well, hang on a second
2012-02-12T22:52:20 < zippe> Firstly, due to gcc bugs unless you hack the toolchain you will always have exception handling code in your binary
2012-02-12T22:52:35 < zippe> The penalty there is a few K
2012-02-12T22:52:41 < zyp> note, I haven't tested, but I would assume that with -ffunction-sections and -Wl,-gc-sections, the entire exception handling could be optimized out
2012-02-12T22:53:01 < zyp> huh, really?
2012-02-12T22:53:03 < zippe> zyp: Not possible until the /0 exception generation in libgcc is fixed
2012-02-12T22:53:08 <+dekar__> zyp, you probably can just drop it using your linker script as well, but w/e - not my point
2012-02-12T22:53:27 < zippe> dekar__: The original reason for -fno-exceptions dates back to the sjlj exception days
2012-02-12T22:53:43 < zippe> When supporting exceptions involved a real, hot-path performance cost
2012-02-12T22:53:51 <+dekar__> what is sjlj?
2012-02-12T22:54:02 < zippe> stjmp/longjmp
2012-02-12T22:54:03 < zyp> setjump/longjump
2012-02-12T22:54:05 <+dekar__> ah
2012-02-12T22:54:17 < zippe> Did you read what I wrote above about the various different exception models?
2012-02-12T22:54:23 <+dekar__> yeah
2012-02-12T22:54:48 < zippe> Ok.  So the EABI and itanium exception models trade .rodata size for performance
2012-02-12T22:55:11 <+dekar__> but aren't exceptions always expensive? I mean you unroll the stack and call a ton of destructors...
2012-02-12T22:55:20 < zippe> dekar__: Only if you take the exception
2012-02-12T22:55:28 < zippe> And in that case, that's correct behaviour
2012-02-12T22:55:34 <+dekar__> well yeah :)
2012-02-12T22:55:48 < zippe> They're not anymore expensive than if (error != 0) { … do cleanup … }
2012-02-12T22:56:04 < zippe> And you get the benefit that they're automatically generated.
2012-02-12T22:56:21 < zippe> There are pros and cons to exceptions vs. explicit cleanup
2012-02-12T22:56:29 < zippe> Both models can be used to good effect
2012-02-12T22:56:47 < zippe> These days, -fno-exceptions lets you enforce no-exceptions programming
2012-02-12T22:56:51 <+dekar__> I know I am actually in favor of them. I wouldn't use them to return values from a method though since I think they're more expensive than a normal return.
2012-02-12T22:56:55 < zippe> If that's what you want to do
2012-02-12T22:57:16 < zippe> dekar__: exceptions are for exceptional conditions.  They're often a bad choice for the hot path, yes.
2012-02-12T22:59:26 <+dekar__> I would imagine them adding more overhead for normal program execution though, I am just guessing here, but I could imagine they force the compiler to have a frame pointer for example in order to be aware of stack levels.
2012-02-12T23:03:14 < zippe> Rather than imagining, perhaps you should go read the itanium C++ ABI doc?
2012-02-12T23:03:24 < zippe> Or, since this is an ARM channel, the ARM EABI document?
2012-02-12T23:03:41 <+dekar__> I guess I could, but I rather not :P
2012-02-12T23:04:06 < zippe> Then will you take an answer from someone that has both of them open at the moment?
2012-02-12T23:04:15 <+dekar__> sure
2012-02-12T23:04:21 < zippe> No
2012-02-12T23:06:45 <+dekar__> can you give me a link?
2012-02-12T23:09:06 < zippe> To?
2012-02-12T23:09:19 <+dekar__> the arm eabi document you mentioned
2012-02-12T23:10:00 < zippe> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ihi0042d/IHI0042D_aapcs.pdf
2012-02-12T23:10:12 < zippe> http://www.orangetide.com/ARM/IHI0043C_rtabi.pdf
2012-02-12T23:10:31 < zippe> http://www.mechcore.net/files/docs/elf/IHI0044C_aaelf.pdf
2012-02-12T23:10:55 < zippe> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ihi0038a/IHI0038A_ehabi.pdf
2012-02-12T23:11:01 < zippe> Actually, here's a better idea
2012-02-12T23:11:07 < zippe> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.subset.swdev.abi/index.html
2012-02-12T23:11:21 < zippe> All the interesting documents are there
2012-02-12T23:11:55 <+dekar__> you mentioned one particular document, didn't you?
2012-02-12T23:12:26 < zippe> If you just want exception handling, the ehabi doc is the one
2012-02-12T23:12:31 < zippe> But they are all intertwingled.
2012-02-12T23:12:32 < zippe> http://refspecs.linuxbase.org/cxxabi-1.83.html
2012-02-12T23:12:55 < zippe> That's the Itanium ABO
2012-02-12T23:13:00 < zippe> s/ABO/ABI/
2012-02-12T23:13:13 < zippe> I need to get back to fixing stuff, sorry
2012-02-12T23:13:18 <+dekar__> I don't really care about itanium, but thanks
2012-02-12T23:14:11 <+dekar__> APCS I already know, had to learn that in university, I guess AAPCS won't be much different
2012-02-12T23:15:06 <+izua> dekar__: dude
2012-02-12T23:15:13 <+izua> completely unrelated
2012-02-12T23:15:13 <+dekar__> hai :D
2012-02-12T23:15:17 <+izua> hai xD
2012-02-12T23:15:18 <+dekar__> np
2012-02-12T23:15:40 <+izua> but did your epic gov just powered on the nuculars due to the power demand?
2012-02-12T23:15:59 <+dekar__> nope, germany is exporting energy anyway
2012-02-12T23:16:11 <+dekar__> we just stop selling
2012-02-12T23:20:19 <+dekar__> izua, why are you asking? does romania have shortages?
2012-02-12T23:20:51 <+izua> nah, someone mentioned it in another chan
2012-02-12T23:21:06 <+izua> and it seemed like a veyr odd move
2012-02-12T23:23:12 <+dekar__> I don't think we can legally do that
2012-02-12T23:23:19 <+dekar__> so no, won't happen
2012-02-12T23:23:48 <+dekar__> germany is a quitter
2012-02-12T23:23:59 <+dekar__> and I am actually in favor of nuclear energy
2012-02-12T23:24:03 <+dekar__> -.-"
2012-02-12T23:27:37 <+dekar__> it really doesn't make sense to me that we shut down perfectly running german power plants so other EU countries have to build more in order to sustain their energy consumtion
2012-02-12T23:28:26 <+dekar__> but somehow in politics it was a strong argument that we're exporting at the moment and thus we could shut them all down by just cutting the export
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2012-02-12T23:38:29 <+izua> well.
2012-02-12T23:38:47 <+izua> even if we did have shortages, you'd need a pretty long cable and thick cable to get juice here -.-
2012-02-12T23:40:37 <+dekar__> izua, you do know that europe has this huge redundant power network?
2012-02-12T23:40:49 <+dekar__> dunno whether romania is connected though
2012-02-12T23:40:54 <+dekar__> but the core of europe is
2012-02-12T23:41:40 <+izua> romania isn't the core of europe brah :P
2012-02-12T23:41:55 <+dekar__> when did you guys join is?
2012-02-12T23:41:57 <+dekar__> *us
2012-02-12T23:42:04 <+dekar__> 2005?
2012-02-12T23:42:15 <+izua> but my point was, exporting power over such a distance, is going to incur a lot of losses, and loads over other power networks
2012-02-12T23:42:18 <+izua> 2007 iirc
2012-02-12T23:42:24 <+izua> not into politics much
2012-02-12T23:42:53 <+dekar__> well we can just export to some country and they export some to you, it's not like our power will actually reach you
2012-02-12T23:44:16 <+izua> there was this tesla guy
2012-02-12T23:44:24 <+izua> who wanted to do wireless power transfer over long range
2012-02-12T23:44:32 <+izua> he died in the meantime
2012-02-12T23:45:19 <+dekar__> you can transfer insane amounts of power using this german technology? HG? I think
2012-02-12T23:45:35 <+dekar__> it uses the ocean
2012-02-12T23:46:16 <+dekar__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current
2012-02-12T23:46:21 <+izua> underwater DC line?
2012-02-12T23:46:22 <+izua> yeah
2012-02-12T23:46:24 <+izua> that's theo ne XD
2012-02-12T23:47:31 <+dekar__> that's pretty epic, free fried fish for everyone :D
2012-02-12T23:52:44 <+dekar__> haha agree
2012-02-12T23:53:24 <+dekar__> she was like "japan opened my eyes, I never knew that could happen!" - she has like a master in physics -.-"
2012-02-12T23:53:51 <+dekar__> she seems to think people are retards
2012-02-12T23:53:58 <+dekar__> well most seem to be
2012-02-12T23:54:13 < BrainDamage> or maybe she needs to save her posion
2012-02-12T23:55:16 <+dekar__> maybe, still it's retarded to act like she was surprised about that happening
2012-02-12T23:55:46 <+dekar__> I mean there was chernobyl after all
2012-02-12T23:56:06 <+dekar__> and she has this academic background
2012-02-12T23:56:52 <+izua> dekar__: yeah, we had one of those too
2012-02-12T23:56:53 <+izua> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Ceau%C8%99escu
2012-02-12T23:56:59 <+izua> apparently her title isn't translated
2012-02-12T23:57:23 <+izua> but it's "PhD Acad. Eng."
2012-02-12T23:57:46 <+dekar__> I know right?
2012-02-12T23:58:17 <+izua> while sustaining her disseration project, she made a shitton of mistakes, the most epic being saying "cotwo" (sortof) for carbon dioxide, etc
2012-02-12T23:58:23 <+dekar__> german ones are much better, besides that the german plants were limited to another 20 years or so anyway - so eventually they would have been shut down in any case.
2012-02-12T23:58:44 < BrainDamage> flyback: it wasn't arrogance, they simply wanted the plutonium easily
2012-02-12T23:58:55 < BrainDamage> they even installed a crane for easily Pu retrival
2012-02-12T23:59:08 <+dekar__> I want plutonium as well :D
2012-02-12T23:59:27 < BrainDamage> that costs :p
2012-02-12T23:59:44 < BrainDamage> afterall, no major incident so far :p
--- Day changed Mon Feb 13 2012
2012-02-13T00:00:47 <+izua> dekar__: you can buy uranium on ebay
2012-02-13T00:00:53 <+izua> nope, we have CANDU ones
2012-02-13T00:01:02 <+dekar__> I want someone stronger
2012-02-13T00:01:05 <+izua> we're working on starting the fourth (or third) core
2012-02-13T00:01:24 <+izua> indeed!
2012-02-13T00:01:33 <+izua> CANDUCK
2012-02-13T00:01:47 <+izua> but they don't need enriched fuel
2012-02-13T00:02:24 <+dekar__> couldn't you just build them underground so that stuff doesn't fly over next time they melt down?
2012-02-13T00:02:37 <+izua> you'd pollute the water
2012-02-13T00:02:40 <+dekar__> I mean I think it's perfectly fine for a country to radiate their water and soil
2012-02-13T00:02:43 <+izua> which is worse
2012-02-13T00:02:52 <+dekar__> well your water, not mine
2012-02-13T00:03:01 <+izua> yes, but that means that water shouldn't go out of the country
2012-02-13T00:03:03 <+izua> or the air
2012-02-13T00:03:06 <+izua> which is sort of impossible
2012-02-13T00:03:28 <+dekar__> or we could build them in the ocean
2012-02-13T00:03:34 <+dekar__> international waters
2012-02-13T00:04:14 <+dekar__> and just detonate the base so the reactor drops into the ocean in case of problems
2012-02-13T00:05:21 <+izua> that would be even worse? :o
2012-02-13T00:05:46 <+dekar__> no, they do that legally anyway
2012-02-13T00:06:16 <+dekar__> france for example, you can throw radioactive waste into the oceans as long as it has been made into a liquid form
2012-02-13T00:08:51 <+dekar__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COGEMA_La_Hague_site#Controversy_surrounding_radioactive_releases
2012-02-13T00:11:51 <+dekar__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield#Radiological_releases
2012-02-13T00:12:27 <+dekar__>  The Convention for the Protection of the Marine Environment of the North-East Atlantic (OSPAR Convention) reports an estimated 200 kilograms (441 lb) of plutonium has been deposited in the marine sediments of the Irish Sea.
2012-02-13T00:12:43 <+dekar__> I want that! O.o
2012-02-13T00:15:10 <+dekar__> the german wikipedia says that the oceans contain more than 100 000 tons of radioactive waste
2012-02-13T00:15:29 <+dekar__> so I really think a bit more doesn't matter, it dilutes pretty well
2012-02-13T00:16:50 <+dekar__> the only thing that has been internationally regulated is that you can't throw radioactive solids into the oceans
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2012-02-13T00:25:03 <+dekar__> zippe, http://www.nynaeve.net/?p=91
2012-02-13T00:25:11 <+dekar__> zippe, Any function using automatic C++ objects with destructors must use SEH for compiler unwind support. This means that most C++ functions end up with FPO optimization disabled. (It is possible to change the compiler assumptions about SEH exceptions and C++ unwinding, but the default [and recommended setting] is to unwind objects when an SEH exception occurs.)
2012-02-13T00:26:27 <+dekar__> seems like exceptions often force you to have a frame pointer
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2012-02-13T00:32:32 < zippe> (not that he's here) but, dekar__, that post is six years old and refers to Win/x86
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2012-02-13T11:49:39 < GeorgeJ> zlog: Tell me more!
2012-02-13T11:49:39 < zlog> GeorgeJ: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-13.html
2012-02-13T11:50:20 < GeorgeJ> That duddnt work zlog! :(
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2012-02-13T11:54:14 < jpa-> zlog: give me free z80's!
2012-02-13T11:54:15 < zlog> jpa-: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-13.html
2012-02-13T11:56:00 < Tom_itx> should be there now
2012-02-13T11:56:07 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: hackkitten, eroomde
2012-02-13T11:56:25 < GeorgeJ> Indeed.
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2012-02-13T12:02:47 < GeorgeJ> Is there any free toolchain available, that's better than gnu arm, or atleast more active?
2012-02-13T12:13:45 < dongs> define "active"
2012-02-13T12:14:15 < dongs> anyway, I need to fifo in 8bit parallel data with a clock, at about 4mhz. what's the best way to do this? will fsmc do it?
2012-02-13T12:14:53 < GeorgeJ> Well, there don't seem to be any updates to gnu arm since 2006.
2012-02-13T12:15:33 < dongs> i thought everyone uses codesourcery stuff
2012-02-13T12:16:03 < dongs> http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/sourcery-tools/sourcery-codebench/overview/
2012-02-13T12:16:23 < dongs> i think there's a free-as-in-aids version as well
2012-02-13T12:16:35 < dongs> http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/sourcery-tools/sourcery-codebench/editions/lite-edition/ this
2012-02-13T12:17:52 < GeorgeJ> Hm, I see there are 4 versions.
2012-02-13T12:18:27 < GeorgeJ> EABI, GNI/Linux, uClinux, SymbianOs. I guess I'm interested in the GNU/Linux one, correct? Or is that just for apps that run under linux on arm?
2012-02-13T12:18:48 < GeorgeJ> If I wante to run applications without running linux, I'd need the EABI release, yes?
2012-02-13T12:25:00 < dongs> eabi yes
2012-02-13T12:32:45 < GeorgeJ> Has anyone run GNU/Linux on an cortex m3?
2012-02-13T12:32:55 < dongs> why the $#$@ would anyone want to.
2012-02-13T12:33:52 < GeorgeJ> dongs: Erm, I'm just asking. Is there any reason I shouldn't?
2012-02-13T12:34:11 < dongs> dunno
2012-02-13T12:34:29 < GeorgeJ> I'm trying to learn some linux embedded development, I don't see why I shouldn't TBH.
2012-02-13T12:34:48 < dongs> embedded development != linux development
2012-02-13T12:35:17 < GeorgeJ> I'll eventually be interested in creating a grid of smart objects. Linux allready has a pretty mature ipv6 module, I don't see why I should reinvent the wheel.
2012-02-13T12:39:14 < zyp> you can't run linux on a platform without MMU
2012-02-13T12:39:31 < zyp> you might be able to run uclinux though
2012-02-13T12:40:07 < GeorgeJ> zyp: The people @ linux-arm.org seem to disagree. http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/LinuxM3
2012-02-13T12:42:48 < GeorgeJ> I'm wondering wether the patches made their way into linux-mainline.
2012-02-13T12:44:54 < zyp> oh, uclinux actually got integrated into mainline
2012-02-13T12:45:21 < GeorgeJ> So I should be able to run the latest linux stable  release on the cortex m3? Schweet!
2012-02-13T12:45:41 < zyp> I didn't say that
2012-02-13T12:47:17 < zyp> but yeah, looks like it's possible to run linux on cortex-m3
2012-02-13T12:47:45 < dongs> so how can I fifo in some parallel data
2012-02-13T12:47:53 < zyp> and to me that sounds like a way of wasting away lots of resources on extra abstraction layers
2012-02-13T12:47:54 < dongs> fsmc?
2012-02-13T12:48:38 < GeorgeJ> zyp: Again, it would be preferred over creating my own IPv6 stack. Is there a better alternative?
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2012-02-13T12:58:42 < zyp> what about using a standalone ipv6 stack? doesn't lwip support ipv6?
2012-02-13T12:59:04 < jpa-> i wonder how much ram/rom linux would take on cortex-m3 :)
2012-02-13T12:59:24 < jpa-> (are there any stm32's with sdram controller anyway?)
2012-02-13T12:59:47 < GeorgeJ> Yeah, I'm gonna give up on running linux on the m3.
2012-02-13T12:59:58 < GeorgeJ> zyp: I don't know. I'll look into it.
2012-02-13T13:00:22 < GeorgeJ> I know of Contiki which has a pretty well-written IPv6 stack. I'll also look into lwip.
2012-02-13T13:00:44 < zyp> lwip is the contiki stack
2012-02-13T13:02:18 < GeorgeJ> Oh, it changed name so many times. it used to be lwip, then uIp, now it's just a module in the contiki OS.
2012-02-13T13:19:13 < zyp> no, lwip and uip are two seperate stacks by the same guy that made contiki
2012-02-13T13:44:12 < GeorgeJ> Ah, I see.
2012-02-13T13:44:27 < GeorgeJ> Well, uIP is the actual stack implemented in Contiki afaik.
2012-02-13T13:50:51 < zyp> that's quite possible, I haven't really checked
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2012-02-13T15:06:11 < Thorn> no stm32 supports sdram, even f4
2012-02-13T16:07:09 < dongs> you arent missing much
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2012-02-13T16:52:21 < jpa-> doesn't stop one from putting an external sdram controller on the FSMC bus, though
2012-02-13T16:52:39 < jpa-> it can address 64MB on the STM32F1, if i'm reading correctly
2012-02-13T17:06:10 < Thorn> never heard about sdram controllers
2012-02-13T17:07:53 < jpa-> yeah, would probably need to use an FPGA to implement one
2012-02-13T17:07:58 < jpa-> (hardly worth it anyways)
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2012-02-13T18:14:24 < zippe> Man, "Linux" and "grid of smart objects"
2012-02-13T18:14:45 < zippe> Lock someone like that in an airtight box and they could breathe oxymorons indefinitely
2012-02-13T18:15:52 < jpa-> "linux" is an oxymoron now? or you can't implement anything smart on linux? or what?
2012-02-13T18:16:41 < zippe> It's like "Elephant Stealth Brigade"
2012-02-13T18:17:12 < jpa-> i know what an oxymoron is, but i can't understand why you claim that is an oxymoron?
2012-02-13T18:18:15 < zippe> The behaviour set for a classical "smart object" and the behaviour set for Linux are largely disjoint
2012-02-13T18:19:16 < jpa-> oh well, didn't realize there is some classical definition for "smart object"
2012-02-13T18:19:27 < zippe> A bit like making a toothbrush out of helium.  In theory, you can do it, but in practice there are enough downsides that it's obviously not the best choice
2012-02-13T18:19:36 < zippe> Hell yes.
2012-02-13T18:20:07 < zippe> Light switches, power meters, temperature sensors, water level sensors, traffic counters, occupancy sensors, light meters, you name it
2012-02-13T18:20:17 < jpa-> linux doesn't sound too bad platform for what he is planning, if it's like smart toasters / fridges / washing machines and not smart dust / keychain / lipstick
2012-02-13T18:20:36 < zippe> It's actually still pretty terrible
2012-02-13T18:20:58 < zippe> The BoM cost for a low-end micro is still ~$10 less than for something that will run Linux
2012-02-13T18:21:08 < zippe> In the best, million-up case
2012-02-13T18:21:36 < zippe> In the typical case, where you might be looking at something like an Overo as an off-the-shelf Linux platform, it's much worse
2012-02-13T18:21:39 < jpa-> and embedded development on raw hardware / RTOS is still more difficult than on a proper OS
2012-02-13T18:22:15 < zippe> NRE scales well with sales volume; BoM cost does not.
2012-02-13T18:22:51 < jpa-> sure, but you don't know if this is a commercial 1 000 000 unit plan or a hobbyist / startup 1-1000 unit plan
2012-02-13T18:22:56 < zippe> If I sell a million of a unit with a $10 BoM saving, that hires a lot of grumpy old embedded developer man-hours
2012-02-13T18:24:24 < jpa-> grumpy old embedded developers don't usually produce gems that the consumers like :)
2012-02-13T18:24:54 < jpa-> besides, one might think that linux is an odd choice for the kindle also, but it seems to be working well for them
2012-02-13T18:25:15 < zippe> jpa-: ageist much?
2012-02-13T18:25:45 < zippe> And, for the kindle?  Hardly.  Android is the #1 choice for lazy screen-based app device developers.
2012-02-13T18:26:05 < jpa-> zippe: no, it's in your eyes; i was more after the "grumpy"
2012-02-13T18:26:14 < zippe> jpa-: moodist much?
2012-02-13T18:26:19 < jpa-> :D
2012-02-13T18:26:33 < jpa-> "oh damn, another feature; i'm sure going to make it suck!"
2012-02-13T18:26:39 < zippe> jpa-: I take it you've never met many of the opensource developement community
2012-02-13T18:27:12 < zippe> "grumpy" frequently translates to "not this teenage shit again"
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2012-02-13T18:27:50 < jpa-> of course i haven't; the open source community is large enough that i can't possibly have met even 0.1% of them, even online
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2012-02-13T18:28:18 < jpa-> the ones that i have have been great so far :)
2012-02-13T18:28:54 < zippe> "great" does not exclude "grumpy". 8)
2012-02-13T18:29:56 < jpa-> i didn't say that it is bad all the times :)
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2012-02-13T18:30:48 < jpa-> but looking back at some of my (hobby) projects, i would have been much better off by just starting with beagleboard or something
2012-02-13T18:31:44 < jpa-> (and even though i have no experience on these million unit projects, i would think that you want low NRE to begin with and then you can adapt to cheaper processor when it starts to sell well)
2012-02-13T18:32:12 < BrainDamage> for hobby you generally accept well higher costs, provided it saves you time
2012-02-13T18:32:24 < BrainDamage> and in some cases, that's the same in commercial too
2012-02-13T18:32:30 < BrainDamage> when you're trying to rush in a new field
2012-02-13T18:33:12 < jpa-> yeah, and if you can't be sure of the volume
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2012-02-13T21:53:56 < Thorn> wtf cree. very similar leds have different pinouts (and even common terminal)
2012-02-13T22:11:56 < Thorn> btw, stm32 seem to be MSL 3
2012-02-13T22:12:34 <+Steffanx> Uh?
2012-02-13T22:13:38 < Thorn> no more than 168 hours without baking
2012-02-13T22:15:06 <+Steffanx> Whatever :P
2012-02-13T22:15:10 < jpa-> yeah, have to make cake every few weeks
2012-02-13T22:15:49 < Thorn> also they need to be shipped in a MBB
2012-02-13T22:15:57  * izua made cake yesterday
2012-02-13T22:16:35 <+Steffanx> Stop using all kinds of unknown abbreviations Thorn :P
2012-02-13T22:17:51 < Thorn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisture_Sensitivity_Level
2012-02-13T22:18:07 <+Steffanx> Yeah, I found that one'
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2012-02-14T00:41:16 <+dekar_> izua, libtomcrypt is awesome
2012-02-14T00:41:30 <+dekar_> I've used it today to add sha256 to my firmware
2012-02-14T00:41:34 <+dekar_> just 800bytes :)
2012-02-14T00:42:26 <+izua> there's also #libtom
2012-02-14T00:42:51 <+Steffanx> No need to write it yourself anymore dekar_ ?
2012-02-14T00:42:56 <+Steffanx> Unless you want to use the hw features
2012-02-14T00:44:06 <+dekar_> my stm32 doesn't have crypto support anyway -.-"
2012-02-14T00:44:11 <+Steffanx> Best license EVER
2012-02-14T00:44:18 <+Steffanx> "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified
2012-02-14T00:44:18 <+Steffanx>  copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long
2012-02-14T00:44:18 <+Steffanx>  as the name is changed."
2012-02-14T00:44:19 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-02-14T00:44:35 <+izua> what about commercial usage?
2012-02-14T00:44:46 <+Steffanx> It's say do whatever you want
2012-02-14T00:44:55 <+Steffanx> "DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE"
2012-02-14T00:45:03 <+dekar_> it's public domain
2012-02-14T00:45:16 <+Steffanx> No, it's dual license
2012-02-14T00:45:32 <+dekar_> it's public domain, that includes _all_ licenses you could ever want
2012-02-14T00:45:43 <+dekar_> you can relicense like you want
2012-02-14T00:45:48 <+Steffanx> It's still using dual licensing
2012-02-14T00:45:51 <+Steffanx> https://github.com/libtom/libtomcrypt/blob/master/LICENSE :P
2012-02-14T00:45:56 <+Steffanx> The LICENSE says so
2012-02-14T00:46:23 <+dekar_> lol
2012-02-14T00:46:26 <+izua> rofl
2012-02-14T00:46:35 <+izua> better than horridfs' description
2012-02-14T00:46:37 <+dekar_> well I didn't get what you meant XD
2012-02-14T00:47:06 <+dekar_> I've never used that lib before, but I really like it
2012-02-14T00:47:19 <+izua> dekar_: that's a neat find
2012-02-14T00:47:25 <+izua> i was messing earlier with this: http://cs.ucsb.edu/~koc/cs178/projects/JT/avr_aes.html
2012-02-14T00:48:20 <+dekar_> well that AVR thing doesn't look that flexible
2012-02-14T00:48:27 <+izua> it's not
2012-02-14T00:49:11 <+Steffanx> Who needs flexible when it's specially designed for AVR's?
2012-02-14T00:49:12 <+dekar_> libtom allows you to drop pre-calculated sboxes and the like
2012-02-14T00:49:24 <+dekar_> well having them wastes a lot of memory
2012-02-14T00:50:17 <+dekar_> I only wanted to hash two things so having no precalculated stuff made more sense for me
2012-02-14T00:50:18 <+izua> the avr one also has the sbox pre-calculated
2012-02-14T00:50:21 <+izua> or part of it
2012-02-14T00:50:24 <+izua> not sure, i suck at crypto.
2012-02-14T00:50:49 <+dekar_> izua, pre calculated sbox wastes memory
2012-02-14T00:50:58 <+izua> you've got to waste something
2012-02-14T00:50:58 <+dekar_> speeds things up though
2012-02-14T00:51:04 <+dekar_> it's nice to have the choice
2012-02-14T00:51:05 <+izua> either cpu time, memory, or code space
2012-02-14T00:51:16 <+dekar_> libtom lets you pick
2012-02-14T00:51:28 <+izua> gonna mess with it a bit later
2012-02-14T00:51:51 <+izua> now i'm hacking my aerotherm (?) back into working
2012-02-14T00:52:08 <+dekar_> "-D LTC_SMALL_CODE"
2012-02-14T00:52:09 <+izua> basically two bigass resistors and a fan
2012-02-14T00:53:33 <+dekar_> 8bit AVR sounds so bad XD
2012-02-14T00:53:58 <+Steffanx> No way
2012-02-14T00:55:25 <+dekar_> that AVR AES lib is like 8kb in total?
2012-02-14T00:55:43 <+dekar_> I am pretty sure libtom can be much smaller
2012-02-14T00:59:37 <+dekar_> well you could use some stream cypher mode so you only need the encryption part of AES for decryption as well
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2012-02-14T01:02:52 <+dekar_> how does AVR compare to thumb2 in terms of code density?
2012-02-14T01:03:54 < Laurenceb_> its really hard to compare
2012-02-14T01:04:06 < Laurenceb_> on average id say thumb2 is smaller
2012-02-14T01:04:16 < Laurenceb_> but its varies massively
2012-02-14T01:05:17 < Laurenceb_> fatfs is massively smaller with thumb2
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2012-02-14T01:11:19 <+dekar_> I guess the AVR AES implementation has a major disadvantage caused by the small register size
2012-02-14T01:11:40 <+dekar_> has anyone tried LUA on the stm32 before?
2012-02-14T01:11:45 < Laurenceb_> yeah that explains why sometimes you see massiv increases in code size on avr
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2012-02-14T01:16:22 <+dekar_> izua, my boss asked me today whether I could port bash to the stm32 -.-"
2012-02-14T01:19:34 <+izua> lol
2012-02-14T01:19:36 <+izua> wat
2012-02-14T01:19:42 < Laurenceb_> haha
2012-02-14T01:19:53 <+izua> make something bash-like
2012-02-14T01:20:04 <+izua> and have it say "running executables is disabled for security reasons"
2012-02-14T01:20:49 < Laurenceb_> they have some example ssl code
2012-02-14T01:20:52 < Laurenceb_> - on st site
2012-02-14T01:22:07 <+dekar_> izua, yeah lol, I was like "well we don't even have a filesystem, what do you expect to happen if you enter 'ls' or 'cd'?"
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2012-02-14T02:03:55 < dongs> your boss should be fired.
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2012-02-14T18:04:53 < jpa-> i'm getting the feeling that CFSR (fault status register) doesn't like me
2012-02-14T18:05:25 < jpa-> now it says 0x00020000 = INVSTATE, but i'm not doing anything with EPSR
2012-02-14T18:19:43 < zyp> I think I got that myself once
2012-02-14T18:20:37 < zyp> IIRC I got that when I forgot I was using F1 and not F4, so the compiler emitted hardfp instructions
2012-02-14T18:21:10 < zyp> worked nicely until I got something that tried to use the FPU
2012-02-14T18:22:20 < zyp> in other words, make sure your compiler is not emitting invalid instructions for the cpu you use
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2012-02-14T18:34:13 < jpa-> i've seen that one too, but it's not it this time :)
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2012-02-14T18:46:39 < zyp> or are you trying to execute anything in arm mode?
2012-02-14T18:47:39 < zyp> remember that the lower bit of a code address indicates arm or thumb mode, and it have to be set for thumb mode
2012-02-14T18:47:58 < zyp> you're not trying to jump/call/execute anything without?
2012-02-14T18:51:44 < jpa-> hmm indeed
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2012-02-14T19:14:26 < jpa-> zyp: thanks! that was it :)
2012-02-14T19:14:45 < zyp> nice, what did you do?
2012-02-14T19:14:46 < jpa-> (a table in pre-made assembler code that had jump addresses without lowest bit set)
2012-02-14T19:14:50 < zyp> ah
2012-02-14T19:15:13 < jpa-> i wonder why it had that, it was supposed to be for cortex-m3 and the assembler code is thumb-aware anyway
2012-02-14T19:15:30 < jpa-> maybe some cortex-m3 processors ignore the lowest bit? o_O
2012-02-14T19:15:52 < zyp> not that I've heard of
2012-02-14T19:16:21 <+Steffanx> zlgo
2012-02-14T19:16:23 <+Steffanx> zlog
2012-02-14T19:16:23 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-14.html
2012-02-14T19:16:45 < jpa-> seems to be tested with LPC1768
2012-02-14T19:18:10 < jpa-> or maybe there is some hidden switch that makes gnu assembler to assemble ".word .LABEL1234" to odd addresses
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2012-02-15T15:31:58 < Thorn> wth is this? do you open them like that every time you insert or remove cards? http://www.ebay.com/itm/50xTransFlash-TF-Micro-SD-Card-Socket-Adapter-Clamshell-/180610148045
2012-02-15T15:32:51 < zyp> probably, kind of like some sim card sockets
2012-02-15T15:36:33 < Thorn> one obvious advantage is they're much easier to solder than standard ones
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2012-02-16T15:37:43 < jpa-> heh, turns out you can't use nop to delay execution on cortex-m3
2012-02-16T15:37:55 < jpa-> looks like the cpu executes nop in zero cycles :P
2012-02-16T15:42:49 < domen> i guess noone told that to my stm32f205? :P
2012-02-16T15:43:08 < domen> i'm using nop to delay some I/O just a bit, and it works
2012-02-16T15:43:27 < domen> so, the instruction fetching or whatever burns the cycles
2012-02-16T15:48:32 < jpa-> strange
2012-02-16T15:48:46 < jpa-> maybe it matters that i was trying to use many of them in row.. not sure :)
2012-02-16T16:00:06 < dongs> use cycle counter to delay instead of doing stupid nop stuff.
2012-02-16T16:02:18 < domen> and if you want a delay of ie. two cycles?
2012-02-16T16:02:39 < dongs> use some other nop other htan nop
2012-02-16T16:02:45 < dongs> like mov r0, r0 or something.
2012-02-16T16:03:23 < Thorn> the pipeline is free to “fold out” NOP instructions from the instruction stream. When this happens, they do not consume time at all.
2012-02-16T16:03:23 < Thorn>  
2012-02-16T16:03:23 < Thorn> Deterministic delays in Cortex-M3 systems must therefore make use of a timer peripheral.
2012-02-16T16:03:45 < dongs> erm, or cyclecounter
2012-02-16T16:03:46 < jpa-> it might be smart enough to collapse mov r0,r0 also :)
2012-02-16T16:03:48 < dongs> why waste timer for that.
2012-02-16T16:04:08 < Thorn> ARM AN234 says so
2012-02-16T16:04:32 < jpa-> i ended up doing for (int i = 0; i < 5; i++) asm("nop");  gives me about 15 cycles
2012-02-16T16:04:45 < Thorn> ARMv7-M ARM doesn't talk about folding except in the DWT chapter where there's a fold counter register
2012-02-16T16:05:16 < Thorn> how deep is the hole? :)
2012-02-16T16:05:37 < Thorn> it also appears that instruction folding is implementation specific
2012-02-16T16:06:42 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, and then you compile it with optimizations and it all gets optimized out
2012-02-16T16:06:48 < dongs> heh
2012-02-16T16:06:57 < Thorn> volatile int i
2012-02-16T16:06:59 < dongs> gcc can optimize?
2012-02-16T16:07:39 < zyp> jpa-, why do you need a 15 cycle delay anyway?
2012-02-16T16:08:03 < Thorn> dongs: yes it can. with -O0 it generates a lot of mov r0, r3; mov r3, r0 sequences. with -O1 or higher it doesn't
2012-02-16T16:08:08 < jpa-> zyp: because my LCD seems to do strange stuff if i try to access it immediately after changing the RS line state
2012-02-16T16:08:13 < dongs> uh
2012-02-16T16:08:33 < jpa-> zyp: but gcc doesn't optimize away asm statements, that's why i use it there
2012-02-16T16:09:18 < zyp> jpa-, gcc is still free to optimize that loop into five nops
2012-02-16T16:09:27 < zyp> and then you're back where you started
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2012-02-16T16:10:59 < zyp> if you need a cycle delay, use the counter value of the systick timer and wait until that reaches a particular value
2012-02-16T16:11:58 < dongs> what does that do that cycle counter doesnt?
2012-02-16T16:12:28 < jpa-> gets in conflict with RTOSes? counts directly cpu cycles? :)
2012-02-16T16:12:59 < dongs> why would it?
2012-02-16T16:13:45 < zyp> if you're using an RTOS, the RTOS should have a cycle-delay function
2012-02-16T16:13:50 < jpa-> because they use it themselves and reset it when they want
2012-02-16T16:14:08 < jpa-> but yeah, these are mainly concerns when writing a library (which i'm not actually doing this time)
2012-02-16T16:15:10 < dongs> well bro if you were using a rtos with cycle delay function you wouldnt be asking how to add a bunch of nops.
2012-02-16T16:15:14 < zyp> what kind of lcd are you using, and why are you bitbanging it?
2012-02-16T16:15:23 < dongs> sounds like typical 4bit trash
2012-02-16T16:15:33 < dongs> does fsmc directly talk to that?
2012-02-16T16:15:36 < jpa-> zyp: it's a TFT that is connected to the FSMC bus
2012-02-16T16:15:57 < jpa-> but for some reason the hardware (not designed by me) has RS connected to GPIO instead of some suitable address pin
2012-02-16T16:16:14 < dongs> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smz2cU3FfFk i did this on SPI screen.
2012-02-16T16:17:39 < dongs> mostly so that i dindt have to screw around with a lot of wires.
2012-02-16T16:18:37 < Thorn> found this in related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vS9Q2rUm2E
2012-02-16T16:19:16 < dongs> lols
2012-02-16T16:24:11 < Laurenceb> why do people have multiple instructions on one line in thumb2 asm?
2012-02-16T16:24:24 < Laurenceb> e.g.  SSAT    R7, #16, R7, LSL #4
2012-02-16T16:24:38 < Thorn> barrel shifter
2012-02-16T16:25:00 < Laurenceb> huh
2012-02-16T16:27:52 < zyp> LSL is not an instruction, the shifter is connected inline in the signal path, so stuff is shifted as it's getting read
2012-02-16T16:27:59 < Laurenceb> oh
2012-02-16T16:28:02 < Laurenceb> neat
2012-02-16T16:28:15 < Laurenceb> but doesnt two instructions have to be loaded?
2012-02-16T16:28:19 < Laurenceb> *two opcodes
2012-02-16T16:28:33 < Thorn> it's one (32-bit) opcode
2012-02-16T16:29:01 < Laurenceb> but its going to take two cycles right?
2012-02-16T16:29:10 < jpa-> nope
2012-02-16T16:29:20 < BrainDamage> shifting takes 0 cycles
2012-02-16T16:29:22 < Laurenceb> oh, nice
2012-02-16T16:29:29 < Thorn> barrel shifter is a combinational circuit
2012-02-16T16:29:33 < Laurenceb> i see
2012-02-16T16:29:37 < zyp> the shift amount is encoded along with the register number
2012-02-16T16:29:49 < Laurenceb> oh right
2012-02-16T16:29:55 < zyp> so no shift are just encoded as a shift of 0
2012-02-16T16:30:14 < Laurenceb> but theres still 32bits of opcode data
2012-02-16T16:30:23 < Laurenceb> so on stm32 its going to take 2 cycles?
2012-02-16T16:30:34 < Laurenceb> or does ART accelerator help with this?
2012-02-16T16:30:41 < zyp> read instruction reference
2012-02-16T16:30:55 < Laurenceb> i am doing
2012-02-16T16:31:03 < Laurenceb> but this is arm documentation
2012-02-16T16:31:09 < zyp> of course
2012-02-16T16:31:18 < jpa-> i haven't found good reference on how the memory latency affects execution speed on the stm32
2012-02-16T16:31:19 < Laurenceb> doesnt stm32 have 64bits wide flash at F_cpu/4?
2012-02-16T16:31:29 < zyp> the cycle count in the instruction reference is the answer you're asking for
2012-02-16T16:31:42 < Laurenceb> so this would take 2 cycles unless the ART accelerator can precache
2012-02-16T16:31:50 < zyp> would it?
2012-02-16T16:31:50 < jpa-> zyp: huh? is there an instruction reference with cycle count somewhere?
2012-02-16T16:31:58 < dongs> of course?
2012-02-16T16:32:00 < Laurenceb> jpa-: on the arm site
2012-02-16T16:32:11 < Laurenceb> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp
2012-02-16T16:32:36 < Laurenceb> i presume it would take two cycles unless maybe ART accel speeds it up on F4
2012-02-16T16:32:40 < zyp> Laurenceb, and what has ART accelerator anything to do with anything?
2012-02-16T16:32:51 < Laurenceb> it precaches the flash
2012-02-16T16:32:57 < zyp> and?
2012-02-16T16:33:02 < Laurenceb> so you can read >16bits in 1 cycle
2012-02-16T16:33:08 < Laurenceb> ie two opcodes
2012-02-16T16:33:37 < jpa-> ah, thanks
2012-02-16T16:33:39 < Laurenceb> also has branch speculator for caching
2012-02-16T16:33:49 < jpa-> the stm32 core reference manual has everything but the cycle counts
2012-02-16T16:34:06 < Laurenceb> so i guess it might run in one cycle on F4
2012-02-16T16:34:08 < zyp> Laurenceb, it's still external to the cpu
2012-02-16T16:34:16 < Laurenceb> zyp: sure
2012-02-16T16:34:23 < Laurenceb> but thats just being pedantic
2012-02-16T16:34:58 < Laurenceb> effectively it takes two cycles due to flash latency
2012-02-16T16:35:21 < zyp> what's the width of the I-bus of the cpu core?
2012-02-16T16:41:02 < Laurenceb> 16bits?
2012-02-16T16:41:09 < Laurenceb> aiui
2012-02-16T16:46:45 < Laurenceb> "A line
2012-02-16T16:46:46 < Laurenceb> prefetcher with two line entries can provide comparable performance to a cache using
2012-02-16T16:46:46 < Laurenceb> many less gates. 128-bits is a common prefetch width for ARM7 targets because of the
2012-02-16T16:46:46 < Laurenceb> 32-bit instruction set. The processor has the benefit of Thumb 32-bit instructions, a
2012-02-16T16:46:46 < Laurenceb> mixed 16/32-bit instruction set. This means that a 64-bit prefetch width provides
2012-02-16T16:46:46 < Laurenceb> comparable benefits to a 128-bit interface."
2012-02-16T17:12:54 < jnosky> I usually declare variable "i" as volatile, to force the delay
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2012-02-16T17:49:44 < Thorn> why haven't I heard about digital transistors before?
2012-02-16T17:54:50 < BrainDamage> you mean interdigitated?
2012-02-16T17:55:45 < Thorn> RETs
2012-02-16T17:55:56 < Thorn> http://www.nxp.com/products/bipolar_transistors/resistor_equipped_transistors_rets/
2012-02-16T17:56:52 < BrainDamage> I don't see any mention about "digital transistors" there
2012-02-16T17:57:39 < Thorn> http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/digital/
2012-02-16T17:58:08 < BrainDamage> it's an awful stretch of the term imo :/
2012-02-16T17:58:37 < Thorn> pretty stupid name, all it means they're designed to be used as switches
2012-02-16T17:58:49 < Thorn> still, saves at least 1 resistor per package
2012-02-16T18:00:15 < Thorn> datasheets say beta is "min 30", does it mean I don't need a series resistor for leds either? :)
2012-02-16T18:52:53 -!- ratatata [~nu@88-222-70-216.meganet.lt] has joined ##stm32
2012-02-16T18:53:14 < ratatata> nu
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2012-02-16T19:23:00 < Thorn> how do you normally design pushbuttons? olimex boards have 10K to gnd, 100R+0.1uF across the button and 330R in series with the gpio line. is that overkill?
2012-02-16T19:25:38 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@ip4da726ae.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##stm32
2012-02-16T19:25:38 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
2012-02-16T19:26:57 < zippe> That's about right
2012-02-16T19:27:25 < zippe> The RC filter helps with bounce
2012-02-16T19:28:17 < zippe> You can do away with the external pull if you use the builtin GPIO pulls
2012-02-16T19:28:49 < zippe> But the RC filter and the series blocker are fairly important
2012-02-16T19:29:21 < Thorn> in comparison, the recommended reset circuit in stm32 datasheets is simply a cap in parallel
2012-02-16T19:29:42 < Thorn> is the series 330R important?
2012-02-16T19:34:10 < jpa-> the series 330R is important if you configure the pin direction wrong :)
2012-02-16T19:35:39 < jpa-> i often do away with the RC filter; if the input is not schmitt trigger, a plain RC filter doesn't give very good debounce so software filter is needed anyway
2012-02-16T19:36:32 < jpa-> there are two ways to get it wrong, either too slow filter or too fast filter; both are equally annoying, especially if the button is e.g. a browse button that you might want to press repeatedly
2012-02-16T19:42:12 < Thorn> do encoders bounce btw?
2012-02-16T19:43:03 < Thorn> cheap mechanical ones that is. most likely they do
2012-02-16T19:43:10 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-02-16T19:43:22 < Thorn> that would be even more fun
2012-02-16T19:43:40 < Thorn> if the user likes turning them quickly
2012-02-16T20:10:41 < jpa-> yes
2012-02-16T20:10:55 < jpa-> i have seen somewhat expensive oscilloscopes that have that bug
2012-02-16T20:11:31 < jpa-> makes adjustments a real pain when if you turn the knob too fast it doesn't move anywhere
2012-02-16T20:12:00 < jpa-> (i think that the bounce may increase as the knob ages; probably spring force decreases)
2012-02-16T20:17:21 <+izua> encoders are funky when they fail
2012-02-16T20:17:43 <+izua> i had one which did 00->10->11->01 in one direction, and 01-01-10-00 in the other.
2012-02-16T20:18:28 <+izua> it was an odd design too, the detents always "stuck" on the 00, but it played the whole sequence when turning it
2012-02-16T20:24:58 <+Steffanx> :)
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2012-02-16T21:08:35 < TitanMKD> hi
2012-02-16T21:18:48 < jpa-> hello
2012-02-16T21:19:07 <+Steffanx> Lo
2012-02-16T21:21:27 < Thorn> is it ok to have vias in smd pads (no reflow soldering, seeedstudio)?
2012-02-16T21:22:15 <+Steffanx> EAGLE probably complains about it?
2012-02-16T21:22:26 <+Steffanx> but you don't use EAGLE :P
2012-02-16T21:22:44 < jpa-> Thorn: yes it is fine
2012-02-16T21:22:59 < Thorn> diptrace doesn't
2012-02-16T21:23:03 < jpa-> atleast if the pad is not for 0402 or something :)
2012-02-16T21:23:12 < Thorn> 0805
2012-02-16T21:23:22 <+Steffanx> Go 0603
2012-02-16T21:23:26 < jpa-> should be fine
2012-02-16T21:23:33 < jpa-> on 0603 i wouldn't put it on the pad
2012-02-16T21:23:43 < jpa-> though it would probably work just fine
2012-02-16T21:24:22 < Thorn> no 0603 until I get some good optics
2012-02-16T21:24:32 < jpa-> 0402 is fine with plain eye :)
2012-02-16T21:25:03 < Thorn> I guess that depends on the eye
2012-02-16T21:26:41 <+Steffanx> Sure jpa-
2012-02-16T21:27:07 <+Steffanx> I should get me a cheap hot air station from ebay
2012-02-16T21:27:19 <+Steffanx> That eevblog was pretty happy about it
2012-02-16T21:27:25 <+Steffanx> eevblog guy
2012-02-16T21:28:15 < Thorn> I have a quick 858 (not D)
2012-02-16T21:28:39 < Thorn> seems to work so far
2012-02-16T21:29:14 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that one
2012-02-16T21:29:26 <+Steffanx> or similar
2012-02-16T21:29:32 < Thorn> btw, non-digital versions seem to be more convenient. setting temperature with buttons is a pain
2012-02-16T21:29:40 <+Steffanx> Idk :)
2012-02-16T21:29:42 < Thorn> and the Chinese are too cheap for encoders
2012-02-16T21:30:16 < TitanMKD> Anyone here have STM32F4 Discovery board ?
2012-02-16T21:30:18 <+Steffanx> *i meant.. idc
2012-02-16T21:30:23 <+Steffanx> Yep TitanMKD
2012-02-16T21:30:52 < TitanMKD> I'm using Chibios on It
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2012-02-16T21:31:15 < Thorn> TitanMKD: I'm the only one here who doesn't
2012-02-16T21:31:25 < TitanMKD> And 'Im planning to do a live sniffer sampling+decoder on NFC stuff on it using software
2012-02-16T21:31:59 <+Steffanx> Get yourself one Thorn P:
2012-02-16T21:32:10 < Thorn> already in the cart
2012-02-16T21:32:53 < Thorn> I'm waiting so I can add anything I may need for this project
2012-02-16T21:33:16 < TitanMKD> I hope 168Mhz will be enough to do sampling + decoding modified miller => binary and output it in a FIFO with a background task which send data to USB ...
2012-02-16T21:34:06 < jpa-> what bitrate of the signal?
2012-02-16T21:34:18 < TitanMKD> from 106Khz to 848Khz ;)
2012-02-16T21:34:55 < TitanMKD> Modified Miller is at 106Khz and 106 to 848Khz is for Manchester which is simpler to decode
2012-02-16T21:35:33 < jpa-> should be enough
2012-02-16T21:35:58 < TitanMKD> in fact i use as output an FT2232H with HighSpeed USB 2.0
2012-02-16T21:36:32 < jpa-> use dma and you may get the sampling & output to run with very little cpu time
2012-02-16T21:36:34 < TitanMKD> jpa- it's just I want to do this in realtime
2012-02-16T21:37:48 < TitanMKD> yes I need to configure the DMA with 4*106Khz freq on GPIO => FIFO and In a task i retrieve data from FIFO ...
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2012-02-16T21:40:36 < jpa-> just low-level decoding or miller/manchester, i.e. no higher level protocol?
2012-02-16T21:40:40 < jpa-> *of
2012-02-16T21:41:21 < TitanMKD> yes after i will need to check data using higher level ;)
2012-02-16T21:41:28 < Laurenceb_> does running from ram increase cycle count for load?
2012-02-16T21:41:30 < TitanMKD> like to check parity and CRC ...
2012-02-16T21:42:46 <+Steffanx> The F4 can do the CRC for you :)
2012-02-16T21:42:58 < jpa-> TitanMKD: it might be best to process the stuff from GPIO DMA in an interrupt routine.. because the high-speed capture doesn't tolerate long delays; from the ISR, you can then write the decoded stuff into a software-based fifo
2012-02-16T21:43:27 < jpa-> Steffanx: only if you are happy with the specific CRC routine and padding scheme implemented by the hardware :)
2012-02-16T21:43:44 < TitanMKD> jpa- interrupt routine will be too slow at 848kbps !! i need oversampling so at least 848*4 => 3.3mbps !!
2012-02-16T21:43:45 <+Steffanx> As long as it works in this case jpa- :)
2012-02-16T21:44:16 <+Steffanx> Not sure if it does
2012-02-16T21:44:27 < jpa-> TitanMKD: not interrupt per each sample, but interrupt every time the DMA fills half of the fifo (half-transfer interrupt)
2012-02-16T21:44:53 < TitanMKD> I need a hint to do automatic sampling with timer+auto reload which arm DMA and do read of a GPIO ...
2012-02-16T21:45:52 < TitanMKD> do you know if time can be linked with DMA ?
2012-02-16T21:45:58 < jpa-> yes it can
2012-02-16T21:46:00 < TitanMKD> time->timer when overflow
2012-02-16T21:46:02 < TitanMKD> cool
2012-02-16T21:46:16 < jpa-> hmm, so you are reading only a single bit?
2012-02-16T21:46:22 < TitanMKD> yes ;)
2012-02-16T21:46:26 < TitanMKD> 1 bit at time
2012-02-16T21:46:38 < jpa-> i wonder if there would be some way to use e.g. the SPI hardware
2012-02-16T21:47:13 < jpa-> it's somewhat of an overhead to pollute the data bus with 32 bit transfers when you only need 1 bit :)
2012-02-16T21:47:22 < TitanMKD> yes
2012-02-16T21:47:44 < TitanMKD> a hint with SPI will be great and spi can work until 21mbit/s
2012-02-16T21:47:59 <+Steffanx> Just clock it yourself?
2012-02-16T21:48:43 < jpa-> either SPI or USART synchronous mode
2012-02-16T21:49:06 < TitanMKD> the problem is I have no clock ;)
2012-02-16T21:49:10 < jpa-> setting DMA to continuously transmit 0x00 on the SPI might work, as long as it doesn't insert any idle cycles between words
2012-02-16T21:49:37 < jpa-> (you could always output clock from a timer and feed it back to the SPI :D
2012-02-16T21:49:42 < TitanMKD> else i can input the 13.56Mhz Ref Clock as source ;)
2012-02-16T21:50:01 <+Steffanx> Yeah or that
2012-02-16T21:50:43 < TitanMKD> yes very good idea
2012-02-16T21:51:08 < jpa-> but then you have to always handle 13.56MHz samples
2012-02-16T21:51:12 < TitanMKD> or just configure timer and output it on a pin to the required freq
2012-02-16T21:51:35 < TitanMKD> I can also lower the 13.56 to 3.39Mhz
2012-02-16T21:51:38 < jpa-> looks like the SPI doesn't insert any idle cycles; so you should be fine configuring the SPI to transmit at a given baudrate and reading the RX stuff
2012-02-16T21:51:55 < TitanMKD> like that the sampling will be synchronized to NFC data sound very good
2012-02-16T21:52:19 < jpa-> well that would be nice of course :P
2012-02-16T21:53:23 < TitanMKD> like that at 3.39Mhz => I could do sampling on all type of freq  until 848Khz with 4*Oversampling which is just enough to do not loose data
2012-02-16T21:54:17 < TitanMKD> In fact I have developped my own NFC card with TRF7970A and I configure it in passive mode Card Emulator to sniff all data between a NFC card and an other Reader like my Nexus S
2012-02-16T21:55:31 <+Steffanx> Hobby bobby work or work?
2012-02-16T21:55:33 <+Steffanx> commercial
2012-02-16T21:55:34 < jpa-> so do you have to do clock recovery on the received signal also?
2012-02-16T21:55:34 < TitanMKD> I have configured TRF7970A to output digital data (from NFC with envelope stuff) on MOD pin
2012-02-16T21:56:43 < TitanMKD> jpa- yes but clock recovery could be done automatically if I use 3.39Mhz as clk in on SPI and MOD pin on MISO
2012-02-16T21:57:14 < jpa-> so the clock is synchronized to 3.39MHz?
2012-02-16T21:57:19 < TitanMKD> of course
2012-02-16T21:57:23 < jpa-> ok :)
2012-02-16T21:57:34 < jpa-> then, by all means, use that :P
2012-02-16T21:57:54 < TitanMKD> 3.39 is a multiple of 13.56 Mhz from a very accurate oscillator on my TRF7970A Breakout board ;)
2012-02-16T21:58:11 < TitanMKD> thank you for the hint it seems just the best !!
2012-02-16T21:58:25 < jpa-> but is whoever is transmitting the data using the same oscillator as the clock source?
2012-02-16T21:59:11 < TitanMKD> in fact i will avoid drift like that
2012-02-16T21:59:26 < jpa-> yeah, i was wondering about drift :P
2012-02-16T22:00:06 < TitanMKD> but yes i will be not really synchronized like the NFC Reader but at least with the same frequency with a delta
2012-02-16T22:00:47 < TitanMKD> anyway I think the output data on MOD pin is synchronized by TRF7970A
2012-02-16T22:00:55 < TitanMKD> I will check ;)
2012-02-16T22:00:57 < jpa-> but anyway, if you need to compensate drift you could configure a timer in capture mode triggering on the data input; then you can check if the transitions don't occur at clock boundary, you can adjust the clock a bit
2012-02-16T22:01:32 < TitanMKD> yes it will be the best to synchronize it like that on the rising edge of DATA on MOD pin
2012-02-16T22:01:52 < TitanMKD> it's easier to recover clock on Manchester
2012-02-16T22:02:53 < jpa-> in that case you'll probably need the loopback from timer output to spi clock input.. i guess you could still feed the timer from the 13.56MHz ref clock to minimize the drift that needs to be compensated
2012-02-16T22:03:09 < jpa-> the timers on stm32 are very flexible
2012-02-16T22:04:50 < TitanMKD> anyway with oversampling of at least 4* I think it will be ok even if i'm not synchronized on it and without drift because of source clock from a quartz
2012-02-16T22:05:31 < TitanMKD> I have tested it with my Open Logic Sniffer and the result is very clean
2012-02-16T22:05:48 <+Steffanx> Wrote a nfc decoder for the ols yet? :P
2012-02-16T22:06:08 < TitanMKD> I can decode easily the Modified Miller and found REQA ;) and after the reply Manchester Encoded ...
2012-02-16T22:06:58 < TitanMKD> +Steffanx yes it will be a dream but it's a bit complex because on the same pin there's all traffic Modified Miller, then Manchester ...
2012-02-16T22:07:14 < TitanMKD> if you want i can let you see the result ;)
2012-02-16T22:07:36 <+Steffanx> I don't know anything about nfc
2012-02-16T22:08:35 < TitanMKD> it's just like any other radio stuff ;)
2012-02-16T22:08:49 <+Steffanx> And I own a OLS anymore
2012-02-16T22:09:25 < TitanMKD> I will also maybe buy Salaea Logic16 for "infinite" depth
2012-02-16T22:09:33 < TitanMKD> it also decode manchester natively ;)
2012-02-16T22:09:50 <+Steffanx> It wasn't really ready when i bought mine
2012-02-16T22:09:55 <+Steffanx> Actually it was pretty useless imgo
2012-02-16T22:09:57 <+Steffanx> ho
2012-02-16T22:10:00 <+Steffanx> So I sold mine
2012-02-16T22:10:13 < TitanMKD> now it's very stable
2012-02-16T22:10:22 <+Steffanx> Yeah, It wasn't when i had one :)
2012-02-16T22:10:39 <+Steffanx> And it had no RLE
2012-02-16T22:10:49 < TitanMKD> no RLE works pretty well
2012-02-16T22:11:02 < TitanMKD> except in 8bits mode where there's a little issue here
2012-02-16T22:11:20 < TitanMKD> in fact it stop to early compared to 16/24/32 bits
2012-02-16T22:11:56 <+Steffanx> It now has RLE, but I didn't have it when i bought it
2012-02-16T22:14:14 < TitanMKD> ha yes without RLE sampling is a bit short
2012-02-16T22:16:28 < TitanMKD> the other idea behind is to do a custom Card Emulator mode using STM32 to decode and reply ;)
2012-02-16T22:17:04 < Laurenceb_> im trying to understadn thumb2
2012-02-16T22:17:06 < Laurenceb_> http://www.sciencezero.org/index.php?title=ARM:_Count_ones_%28bit_count%29
2012-02-16T22:17:17 < Laurenceb_> add	r0,r0,r0,lsr #4
2012-02-16T22:17:32 < Laurenceb_> ^where is it documented that you can comine add and ls like that?
2012-02-16T22:17:38 < Laurenceb_> *combine
2012-02-16T22:18:51 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: i don't know about arm docs, but stm32 core reference documents it as "flexible second operand"
2012-02-16T22:19:24 < Laurenceb_> ok, thanks
2012-02-16T22:19:31 < jpa-> "Register with optional shift
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2012-02-16T22:26:11 < Thorn> I don't see anything general in arm arm. for add, it's documented in a7.7.4, encoding T3
2012-02-16T22:26:49 < Thorn> same for other instructions
2012-02-16T22:27:35 < Thorn> aha, A7.4
2012-02-16T22:27:51 <+izua> sz is neat
2012-02-16T22:27:54 <+izua> http://www.sciencezero.org/index.php?title=ARM:_Division_by_10
2012-02-16T22:29:55 < jpa-> not very useful for 32 bit, 4 to 10 cycles cf. 2 to 12 for the native division :)
2012-02-16T22:30:24 < Thorn> I've seen some article today that said, "arm is more power efficient than intel because all instructions are 32 bits wide"
2012-02-16T22:31:10 < Thorn> the author needs to be hit in the head with the ARM ARM
2012-02-16T22:31:53 < jpa-> i wonder why we don't just use only the 32 bit instructions on intel, then :)
2012-02-16T22:33:29 < Laurenceb_> i see
2012-02-16T22:33:43 < Laurenceb_> wow thumb is complex
2012-02-16T22:34:21 < Laurenceb_> so stm32 can load 32bit of instructions at one cycle, as it has the prefetch thingy
2012-02-16T22:34:33 < Laurenceb_> but doesnt the flash run slower than the core?
2012-02-16T22:34:43 < Laurenceb_> and have a wider bus ?
2012-02-16T22:35:06 < Laurenceb_> so if you use instructions like that you end up with wait states?
2012-02-16T22:36:51 < Laurenceb_> im trying to write some really fast code to add lower nibbles of each byte in a word into one uint16, and upper nibble into another
2012-02-16T22:41:18 < jpa-> so you get 4 bytes (32 bit register) as an input?
2012-02-16T22:42:00 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-16T22:42:24 < Laurenceb_> atm my best code masks most and least significant nibbles using AND
2012-02-16T22:42:46 < Laurenceb_> then MUL with a constant to get sum of nibbles as most significant byte
2012-02-16T22:42:53 < zyp> Laurenceb_, but surely not all instructions execute in one cycle
2012-02-16T22:42:58 < Laurenceb_> then shift and add
2012-02-16T22:43:03 < Laurenceb_> zyp: no
2012-02-16T22:43:16 < Laurenceb_> but the ones im using for this do
2012-02-16T22:43:17 < zyp> and some instructions are only 16 bit, so you can load two in one cycle
2012-02-16T22:43:32 < Laurenceb_> so the I bus is 32bits wide?
2012-02-16T22:43:43 < zyp> didn't you say that?
2012-02-16T22:43:52 < Laurenceb_> i wasnt sure
2012-02-16T22:44:00 < zyp> I assume it's 32 bit, but I don't know
2012-02-16T22:44:04 < Laurenceb_> ok if its is it makes more sense
2012-02-16T22:44:22 < Laurenceb_> as code iwth lots of inline constants would work ok
2012-02-16T22:44:22 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: huh, how do you do the MUL trick?
2012-02-16T22:44:22 < zyp> yeah, I like to make assumptions based on what makes sense.
2012-02-16T22:44:43 < Laurenceb_> think of long multiplication on paper
2012-02-16T22:44:59 < Laurenceb_> you can use it to add the digits with some appropriate masking
2012-02-16T22:45:05 < jpa-> hmm indeed
2012-02-16T22:45:38 < Laurenceb_> but you need the masking of nibbles
2012-02-16T22:45:51 < Laurenceb_> i was wondering if some of the byte reordering instructions might be faster
2012-02-16T22:45:56 < Laurenceb_> but im not sure
2012-02-16T22:46:09 < jpa-> are you using 32x32->64 bit multiply? (which takes 3-5 cycles)
2012-02-16T22:46:47 < zyp> Laurenceb_, have you looked on the DSP instructions of the M4? sounds kind of like what you want to do
2012-02-16T22:47:00 < Laurenceb_> yeah, reading them
2012-02-16T22:47:31 < Laurenceb_> holy shit
2012-02-16T22:47:36 < Laurenceb_> it has hardware sqrt
2012-02-16T22:48:01 < zyp> the fpu in M4?
2012-02-16T22:48:11 < zyp> or integer sqrt?
2012-02-16T22:48:47 < TitanMKD> anyway this stm32F4 is just amazing
2012-02-16T22:49:30 < Thorn> I've seen an interesting project using a C2000 (tms320f28xx) DSP but it just might be that m4f is a better dsp than c2000 :)
2012-02-16T22:49:46 < Laurenceb_> fpu on M4
2012-02-16T22:50:05 < Laurenceb_> im trying to work out if SDR GPS is feasible
2012-02-16T22:50:33 < TitanMKD> Thorn yes I used C2000 F2812 and it really suxx compared to M4
2012-02-16T22:51:11 < Thorn> can it do something m4 can't?
2012-02-16T22:51:12 < TitanMKD> Thorn on C2000 you cannot do 8bits ;) it's minimum 16bits data !!
2012-02-16T22:51:28 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: depends on how fast you want to get the fix :)
2012-02-16T22:51:59 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: oddly its the other way around
2012-02-16T22:52:11 < Laurenceb_> fix is easily doable in a couple of seconds on F4
2012-02-16T22:52:19 < Laurenceb_> its tracking thats hard to do well
2012-02-16T22:52:26 < jpa-> oh?
2012-02-16T22:52:46 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-16T22:52:56 < Laurenceb_> SDR GPS can do FFT processing on the cpu
2012-02-16T22:53:12 < Laurenceb_> and theres already some really fast integer fft libs for M4
2012-02-16T22:54:03 < Laurenceb_> fast enough to scan doppler/delay space for all sats in a few seconds
2012-02-16T22:54:44 < jpa-> nice to know, i was actually wondering about using FFT for some other spread spectrum detection :)
2012-02-16T22:54:47 < Laurenceb_> the trick is processing the signals well
2012-02-16T22:55:06 < Laurenceb_> http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm_cortex-m3_microcontroller/f/473/t/44034.aspx
2012-02-16T22:55:08 < Laurenceb_> ^there
2012-02-16T22:55:52 < Laurenceb_> 2Msps gps definitely works, but thats a little lame
2012-02-16T22:56:15 < Laurenceb_> i want to see if 4Msps is feasible, thatd be more like good commerical modules
2012-02-16T22:57:33 < jpa-> isn't 4Msps still like 70 meters inaccuracy?
2012-02-16T22:57:47 < Laurenceb_> yes, but you rely on the jitter
2012-02-16T22:58:05 < jpa-> ah
2012-02-16T22:58:16 < Laurenceb_> the tracking loops run at a few hundered Hz, and will dither around the pseudorandom noise code
2012-02-16T22:58:23 < jpa-> so averaging it out gives higher precision :)
2012-02-16T22:58:39 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-16T22:58:53 < Laurenceb_> up to about 20Hz bandwidth
2012-02-16T22:59:08 < Laurenceb_> then you hit the limit of ionospheric drift and noise etc
2012-02-16T22:59:27 < Laurenceb_> so a meter or so residual drift
2012-02-16T23:01:00 < Laurenceb_> some instructions can only use 8 registers right?
2012-02-16T23:02:29 < jpa-> hm, can't remember
2012-02-16T23:04:17 <+Steffanx> Yes you can!
2012-02-16T23:04:58 < jpa-> well can't remember nor find any instruction with such a limitation :)
2012-02-16T23:05:07 < Thorn> what'd be a good price for a reel of 5% 0805 resistors? (5000 pcs)
2012-02-16T23:05:14 -!- Tom_L [~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined ##stm32
2012-02-16T23:05:34 <+Steffanx> Ask Tom_L
2012-02-16T23:05:36 < TitanMKD> Thorn check on Digikey they have very good price really better than on Farnell ...
2012-02-16T23:05:38 <+Steffanx> or itx
2012-02-16T23:06:09 < Laurenceb_> oh i think get it
2012-02-16T23:06:29 < Laurenceb_> some instructions get swapped for 32bit equivalents if you access an upper register
2012-02-16T23:06:37 < Laurenceb_> as otherwise the operands wont fit
2012-02-16T23:07:23 < Laurenceb_> i bet "excessive" use of 32bit instructions would lead to wait states on stm32
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2012-02-16T23:13:21 < TitanMKD> does anyone tested maximum GPIO output speed ? (on STM32F4)
2012-02-16T23:13:49 < TitanMKD> at 168Mhz it should be 42Mhz
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2012-02-16T23:17:04 <+Steffanx> 84 or something like that
2012-02-16T23:17:33 < Thorn> looks like I can get a reel of 1% yageo for $13, which is actually better than digikey
2012-02-16T23:17:43 <+Steffanx> "Up to 136 fast I/Os up to 84 MHz" <= stm32f407vg
2012-02-16T23:18:06 < TitanMKD> Yes i will check the 84Mhz stuff ;)
2012-02-16T23:18:31 < Thorn> what about F1? I think I read somewhere it can only do a few MHz?
2012-02-16T23:18:33 < TitanMKD> with just call to GpIO output with xor in a very fast loop unrolled like 32step per loop
2012-02-16T23:20:38 < TitanMKD> the must will be a STM32F4 including FPGA ;)
2012-02-16T23:20:50 < TitanMKD> to have both in the same core
2012-02-16T23:21:10 < Thorn> there is a microsemi chip with f1 + fpga
2012-02-16T23:21:22 < Thorn> 3 of them actually
2012-02-16T23:21:29 < TitanMKD> ha
2012-02-16T23:22:20 < TitanMKD> it's funny to seen even Freescale have build µC with M3 ;)
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2012-02-16T23:22:49 < TitanMKD> PowerPC seems dead end
2012-02-16T23:27:43 < TitanMKD> thanks you for all it's a very good channel here
2012-02-16T23:27:52 < TitanMKD> best regards all see you later
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2012-02-17T00:54:49 < Laurenceb_> i think the reason people have seen slow gpio is they are calling gpio functions
2012-02-17T00:54:58 < Laurenceb_> if you use raw asm its nice and fast aiui
2012-02-17T00:55:08 < Laurenceb_> well... as fast as the APB allows
2012-02-17T00:56:30 < Laurenceb_> ok i think i understand this now, 2Msps GPS can be done with 5.8Mhz/channel
2012-02-17T00:56:45 < Laurenceb_> 4Msps with 9.8Mhz/channel
2012-02-17T00:57:00 < Laurenceb_> so 16channel is just feasible on F4 with 4msps gps XD
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2012-02-17T20:20:30 < TitanMKD> does anyone has tried to use STM32 as a realtime logic analyzer ?
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2012-02-17T20:20:48 < TitanMKD> it could do that at 84Mhz using Timer with DMA
2012-02-17T20:20:53 < TitanMKD> and for 16bits
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2012-02-17T20:22:14 < jpa-> TitanMKD: sure, it's quite easy
2012-02-17T20:22:37 <+Steffanx> jpa- tried it?
2012-02-17T20:22:49 < jpa-> though processing the data captured at 84MHz may be a bit of a problem :)
2012-02-17T20:23:14 < jpa-> Steffanx: mine is only lousy 500kHz so far, because i need to bitbang the fpga i can't reprogram :P
2012-02-17T20:23:44 <+Steffanx> You didn't evne use the fsmc
2012-02-17T20:23:50 < jpa-> i did
2012-02-17T20:23:57 < jpa-> the fsmc is the reason it is so slow
2012-02-17T20:24:01 <+Steffanx> Aah
2012-02-17T20:24:18 < jpa-> apparently it takes atleast 4 cycles to make a fsmc read
2012-02-17T20:24:33 < TitanMKD> jpa- i think about just pack the data and send them to an FTDI FT2232H using parallel FIFO mode
2012-02-17T20:24:51 <+Steffanx> pebkec jpa- :P
2012-02-17T20:25:03 < jpa-> TitanMKD: so why not just use the FT2232H directly as a logic analyzer?
2012-02-17T20:25:06 < TitanMKD> jpa- FT2232H FIFO synchronous mode is 60Mhz * 8bits
2012-02-17T20:25:16 < jpa-> just add a clock
2012-02-17T20:25:33 < jpa-> Steffanx: keyboard et chair?
2012-02-17T20:25:37 < TitanMKD> jpa- FT2232H is too slow for GPIO acquisition it's managed by PC ...
2012-02-17T20:25:51 <+Steffanx> Yeah jpa-
2012-02-17T20:26:16 < TitanMKD> jpa- and STM32 could do RLE stuff to compress a bit the data
2012-02-17T20:26:21 < jpa-> TitanMKD: but i assume you write to the FT2232H by toggling some "write" pin? just connect that to a clock source :)
2012-02-17T20:26:52 < jpa-> ok, that's what i call processing and i think 84MHz RLE may be a bit of a problem, even with 168MHz cpu
2012-02-17T20:27:27 < TitanMKD> yes ;)
2012-02-17T20:27:30 < jpa-> i haven't studied the M4 instruction set, but on M3 it takes atleast 4 cycles to do RLE (and that is when there are no changes)
2012-02-17T20:27:49 < TitanMKD> anyway without RLE it's also ok
2012-02-17T20:27:56 < TitanMKD> even just for 50MHz
2012-02-17T20:28:02 < jpa-> and without RLE the STM32 is not needed :)
2012-02-17T20:28:50 < TitanMKD> saleae 16 is just perfect for that i know
2012-02-17T20:29:08 < jpa-> i wonder if there is any way to abuse the timers to do RLE compression; for one channel it would be trivial :)
2012-02-17T20:30:07 < TitanMKD> jpa- with my PandaBoard and 2*1Ghz ARM core it could be trivial even at 100Mhz ;)
2012-02-17T20:30:07 < jpa-> STM32F1xx has 8 timer capture input channels IIRC
2012-02-17T20:30:38 < jpa-> TitanMKD: yeah.. usually the larger problem is that there are no nice open source wave browsers
2012-02-17T20:30:46 < jpa-> gtkwave is the best but it is lacking in features
2012-02-17T20:30:54 < TitanMKD> and the PWM capture is amazing on STM32F4 i read it can capture at 84Mhz !!
2012-02-17T20:31:01 < TitanMKD> maybe it's a typo
2012-02-17T20:31:16 < jpa-> (ols client is promising but does not support other devices / file formats yet)
2012-02-17T20:31:30 < TitanMKD> we can savez it in ols format
2012-02-17T20:31:36 < TitanMKD> it's well detailed
2012-02-17T20:31:52 < TitanMKD> ok see you
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2012-02-17T20:32:57 < jpa-> oh yeah, simpsons on tv, afk for me too
2012-02-17T20:33:07 <+Steffanx> Hmpf
2012-02-17T20:33:13 <+Steffanx> Who watches that on tv?
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2012-02-17T21:14:21 < Thorn> how would you protect external inputs/outputs (going to gpio pins)? I see many LAs / JTAG adapters use buffers / bus transceiver chips, is it for protection?
2012-02-17T21:16:24 < Tom_itx> probably
2012-02-17T21:16:41 < Tom_itx> i know the avr dragon recomends a buffer added to it
2012-02-17T21:19:26 < Thorn> the more I work on my project the further from completion it seems to be x_x
2012-02-17T21:20:05 <+Steffanx> Which project?
2012-02-17T21:20:06 < Thorn> even though it's actually pretty trivial
2012-02-17T21:20:18 < Tom_itx> there are also level translator chips in case it needs to access 5v stuff
2012-02-17T21:20:30 < Tom_itx> not sure if arm is 5v tolerant or not
2012-02-17T21:21:19 < Thorn> my stm32 components that I drew have *s on non-5V tolerant pins
2012-02-17T21:22:57 < Thorn> Steffanx: all I wanted was a device with rs-485 and can interfaces so I could learn how to deal with multiple devices on those buses
2012-02-17T21:23:28 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-02-17T21:23:36 < Thorn> it sort of went downhill from there
2012-02-17T21:24:30 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2012-02-17T21:25:15 < Thorn> I have a half-routed pcb and a half-complete schematics
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2012-02-17T21:27:54 < Tom_itx> hint: don't start routing until the schematic is done
2012-02-17T21:28:31 < Thorn> I've only routed things I'm least likely to change
2012-02-17T21:34:03 < Thorn> here is the current state of it http://i.imgur.com/bS9mZ.jpg (700Kb)
2012-02-17T21:38:38 < Thorn> I'm actually thinking of adding a dc/dc converter
2012-02-17T21:38:52 < jpa-> for Q4-Q9, you could consider FETs also
2012-02-17T21:40:42 < Thorn> and also 74hc138, 74hc595... I don't really need the free pins but that could actually make routing easier
2012-02-17T21:41:18 < Thorn> btw this mbi5026 chip can replace both uln2803 and 74hc595
2012-02-17T21:41:32 < Thorn> and it has 16 outputs too
2012-02-17T21:44:08 < Thorn> I also have a crazy idea of charging the rtc backup supercap from 5V instead of 3.3V to extend its running time
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2012-02-17T21:52:03 < Thorn> if I do add a dc/dc what voltage should it output, 5V? (stepped down to 3.3V by the ldo, I need 5V and 3.3V)
2012-02-17T22:10:42 < jpa-> Steffanx: gah how did you know that pebkec?
2012-02-17T22:11:15 < jpa-> turns out there is a "hidden" line from signal input to STM32 pins, that i can use :)
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2012-02-17T22:14:50 <+izua> jpa-: what? what's the hidden line?
2012-02-17T22:15:36 < jpa-> nah, on the dso quad :)
2012-02-17T22:17:34 <+izua> oh
2012-02-17T22:17:40 <+izua> whatare you hacking on that, exactly?
2012-02-17T22:17:42 <+izua> software rewrite?\
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2012-02-17T22:20:02 < jpa-> just own software, not rewriting the existing functionality but adding my own
2012-02-17T22:20:41 < jpa-> i hope to make it fast enough to do usb full speed (12Mbit/s) protocol decode
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2012-02-17T23:23:33 <+Steffanx> Nice pebkec jpa-
2012-02-17T23:38:26 < jpa-> except that - those two resistors on the hidden wires are not placed :F
2012-02-17T23:39:03 <+Steffanx> I heard you are a soldering pro, soooo ...
2012-02-17T23:39:28 < jpa-> sure, but i wish this to be generally usable :P
2012-02-17T23:39:57 <+Steffanx> Switches ..
2012-02-17T23:43:12 < jpa-> i mean, usable for other people who bought this gem of chinese hardware design :)
2012-02-17T23:43:37 <+Steffanx> Then you're screwed
2012-02-17T23:44:05 < jpa-> yeah, i wonder where i my next pebkec
2012-02-17T23:57:42 <+izua> Ìû
2012-02-17T23:58:00 <+Steffanx> WTF is that izua ?
2012-02-17T23:58:05 <+Steffanx> You said they in ALL channels
2012-02-17T23:58:23 <+Steffanx> Even in the 'private' conversation we had
--- Day changed Sat Feb 18 2012
2012-02-18T00:02:22 < TitanMKD> woo my STM32F4 nanosec wait is not bad ;)
2012-02-18T00:02:33 < TitanMKD> if I want 100ns I obtain 130ns ;)
2012-02-18T00:02:47 < TitanMKD> 30ns is because of 5 cycle for the wait time check ;)
2012-02-18T00:03:06 <+Steffanx> izua?
2012-02-18T00:03:36 <+izua> Steffanx: lol yeah
2012-02-18T00:03:37 <+izua> uh
2012-02-18T00:03:40 <+izua> i think /msg
2012-02-18T00:03:43 <+izua> i wanted to bug you at fiorst
2012-02-18T00:03:55 <+izua> i typed /msg instead of /query. whoopsie.
2012-02-18T00:04:05 <+izua> as somebody said, this open source software is good for nothing.
2012-02-18T00:04:08 <+Steffanx> And then you sent it to every channel?
2012-02-18T00:04:40 <+Steffanx> TitanMKD, written in assembly?
2012-02-18T00:04:51 < TitanMKD> Steffanx no in C ;)
2012-02-18T00:05:03 < TitanMKD> it's why it's not so bad ;)
2012-02-18T00:09:20 <+izua> Ìû
2012-02-18T00:09:53 <+Steffanx> Yes, Ìû
2012-02-18T00:10:29 < jpa-> is that utf8 for "i love you"?
2012-02-18T00:10:36 <+izua> Steffanx: hmm, yeah, apparently /msg does that -.-
2012-02-18T00:10:54 <+izua> wasn't on purpose, sorry if it bugged you ._.
2012-02-18T00:11:29 <+Steffanx> Yeah, now i can't sleep anymore
2012-02-18T00:11:59 <+izua> i can also insert random bells into my message :D
2012-02-18T00:31:30 < Thorn> you should see my routing
2012-02-18T00:31:39 < Thorn> I think it's actually pornographic
2012-02-18T00:35:27 <+Steffanx> I'm not allowed to watch porn, sorry :P
2012-02-18T00:36:14 < Thorn> the way these transistors straddle through holes...
2012-02-18T00:38:11 < jpa-> Steffanx: what? who put this horrible restriction on you?
2012-02-18T00:38:17 < Thorn> I wish I could see this routed by a pro
2012-02-18T00:38:25 <+Steffanx> My mom ofcourse, jpa-
2012-02-18T00:38:45 < jpa-> Steffanx: well how do you fullfill your manly needs, then?
2012-02-18T00:39:25 <+Steffanx> No comment
2012-02-18T00:40:41 < Thorn> the way these routes follow each other no matter how I try to keep them separated...
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2012-02-18T00:44:39 <+Steffanx> My mom told me i'm allowed to see it Thorn
2012-02-18T00:44:42 <+Steffanx> May i see it?
2012-02-18T00:45:31 < Thorn> mature audience only sorry
2012-02-18T00:45:57 <+Steffanx> Mwah, my age is good :P
2012-02-18T00:46:11 <+Steffanx> I have an age that only happens once in 11 years
2012-02-18T00:46:17 <+Steffanx> Double digit age :)
2012-02-18T00:46:34 <+Steffanx> Until you're older than 99, than it doesn't apply anymore
2012-02-18T00:46:50 <+Steffanx> *then
2012-02-18T00:49:44 < Thorn> okay, you asked for it http://i.imgur.com/huLip.jpg
2012-02-18T00:49:58 < Thorn> it's the bottom
2012-02-18T00:50:12 < Thorn> if you know what I mean
2012-02-18T00:50:45 <+Steffanx> Purple .. Gay porn :P
2012-02-18T00:51:35 < Tom_itx> ooo that's hawt!
2012-02-18T00:52:04 < jpa-> where is your groundplane?!?
2012-02-18T00:52:18 <+Steffanx> It fell on the floor
2012-02-18T00:52:21 <+Steffanx> *ground
2012-02-18T00:52:21 <+izua> in the FeCl3
2012-02-18T00:52:33 < Thorn> I'll do a pour eventually
2012-02-18T00:52:42 < Thorn> on both sides
2012-02-18T00:52:43 < Tom_itx> from the looks of the airwires, he's not got that far yet
2012-02-18T00:52:44 < jpa-> never have se.. pcb's without ground plane, you might catch EMI and die!
2012-02-18T00:52:49 <+izua> the reason i do them is to see how good the board usually exposes
2012-02-18T00:53:02 <+izua> also to have it etch faster
2012-02-18T00:53:29 < Thorn> they look much better with pours too
2012-02-18T00:53:42 <+izua> mhm
2012-02-18T00:53:54 < Thorn> both solder mask and fr4 are semi-transparent
2012-02-18T00:54:20 < Thorn> so places with no copper have a weird translucent color
2012-02-18T00:58:38 <+Steffanx> Which big ass chip is that one in the middle Thorn ?
2012-02-18T00:59:00 < Thorn> stm32f103vct6
2012-02-18T00:59:20 < Thorn> too many pins but I still have 4 of them
2012-02-18T01:01:41 < zyp> what's that board for?
2012-02-18T01:01:56 <+Steffanx> magic
2012-02-18T01:02:06 < zyp> ooo
2012-02-18T01:02:07 <+Steffanx> Or black voodoo
2012-02-18T01:02:18 < Thorn> hopefully not the king that involves smoke
2012-02-18T01:02:25 <+Steffanx> or whatever its called
2012-02-18T01:02:44 <+Steffanx> No kings on your board Thorn
2012-02-18T01:03:12 < zyp> looks more spacy than my board
2012-02-18T01:06:08 < zyp> Thorn, looks like you like to route around stuff
2012-02-18T01:06:17 < zyp> around and back
2012-02-18T01:06:34 < Thorn> you're probably looking at the ground trace
2012-02-18T01:06:56 <+Steffanx> And the wires on the right sideo f the board
2012-02-18T01:06:57 < zyp> no, I'm talking about stuff like the five signals on right side
2012-02-18T01:07:36 < zyp> you could avoid that by running them on left side on one end and right on other
2012-02-18T01:07:59 < zyp> that way you don't enclose the pins completely in one end
2012-02-18T01:08:31 < zyp> and what's up with the ground routing?
2012-02-18T01:08:41 < Thorn> I thought I needed access to the bottom pins but it looks like access will be on the top layer
2012-02-18T01:09:01 < zyp> you're only doing two layers?
2012-02-18T01:09:03 < Thorn> so it probably can be redone
2012-02-18T01:09:08 < Thorn> right
2012-02-18T01:11:48 < zyp> when doing two layers you should make a pour on both sides and stitch them together with vias so they together form a good ground plane
2012-02-18T01:12:44 < Thorn> that's what I'm going to do
2012-02-18T01:13:02 < zyp> then you don't have to care about silly long ground connections like that, just make sure the plane is sensible
2012-02-18T01:14:00 < Thorn> the Dave Jones Accident Report stated that you should still connect ground manually with traces before pouring
2012-02-18T01:14:25 < Thorn> so that if the manufacturer decides to mess with your pours you'll still have connectivity
2012-02-18T01:14:41 < zyp> sounds like a waste of time
2012-02-18T01:14:54 < zyp> if your manufacturer does stuff like that, find another.
2012-02-18T01:15:08 < Tom_itx> or make him correct it
2012-02-18T01:15:09 < Thorn> it concerned iteadstudio but they use the same fab as seeed I believe
2012-02-18T01:15:11 <+Steffanx> Never use seeed or itead then
2012-02-18T01:15:22 < Tom_itx> :O
2012-02-18T01:15:23 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/nGjGf.png <- also, I must say I wouldn't imagine doing this board on only two layers
2012-02-18T01:17:05 < Laurenceb_> nice work
2012-02-18T01:17:13 < Thorn> I've seen single layer boards that are about as complicated (in a local magazine that only publishes stuff you can do at home)
2012-02-18T01:17:23  * Laurenceb_ just got more boards from pcbtrain
2012-02-18T01:17:27 < Laurenceb_> also failed
2012-02-18T01:17:31 <+Steffanx> :P
2012-02-18T01:17:53 < Laurenceb_> no more orders to them
2012-02-18T01:17:59 < zyp> Thorn, with that scale of smt?
2012-02-18T01:18:26 < zyp> single sided pth is no problem, lots of space to route under and between
2012-02-18T01:18:31 < Thorn> well it did use 08085 and tqfp100 0.5mm
2012-02-18T01:19:09 < Laurenceb_> zyp: i dont see a pullup on the usb?
2012-02-18T01:19:12 < Thorn> a FM synth using a tms320f28xx and some AD ADC and DDS stuff
2012-02-18T01:19:38 < Thorn> *0805
2012-02-18T01:20:03 < Tom_itx> those are huge
2012-02-18T01:20:52 < zyp> Laurenceb_, no?
2012-02-18T01:20:59 < zyp> F4 have them internal
2012-02-18T01:21:01 < Laurenceb_> ah
2012-02-18T01:21:38  * Laurenceb_ cant find a probability density function for gps signal doppler shift
2012-02-18T01:21:44 < Laurenceb_> google images fails :(
2012-02-18T01:28:22 < Thorn> 86 vias and counting
2012-02-18T01:28:43 < Thorn> and 5 meters of traces
2012-02-18T01:32:35 < Laurenceb_> haha
2012-02-18T01:32:39 < Laurenceb_> thats a nice feature
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2012-02-18T01:39:25 < Thorn> mayes you think about resistance
2012-02-18T01:39:30 < Thorn> *makes
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2012-02-18T01:45:58 < Laurenceb_> viva la resistance
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2012-02-18T06:54:14 < dongs> < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/nGjGf.png <- also, I must say I wouldn't imagine doing this board on only two layers
2012-02-18T06:54:23 < dongs> looks totally doable on 2 considering its so huge
2012-02-18T06:55:48  * dongs browses STM32_I2C_CPAL_V1.1.0
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2012-02-18T07:06:19 < dongs> hm silly.  they dont have stuff to clock out stuck slaves.
2012-02-18T07:21:02 < dongs> is there any register/memory value I can set on stm32 that would survive through a soft reset?
2012-02-18T07:25:08 < zippe1> depends on which stm32
2012-02-18T07:25:22 < zippe1> Have you looked at the RTC backup SRAM?
2012-02-18T07:26:00 < dongs> f103
2012-02-18T07:26:01 < dongs> hmm
2012-02-18T07:26:16 < dongs> only care about being there (officially) after soft reset
2012-02-18T07:29:19 < dongs> oh hey looks liek I can just jump directly to rom bootloader
2012-02-18T07:29:25 < dongs> maybe i dont evne need to do this.
2012-02-18T07:36:40 < dongs> ya just doing this, sounds much easier.
2012-02-18T07:36:49 < dongs> and looks like sram does survive a NVIC_GenerateSystemReset
2012-02-18T07:44:49 < dongs> wait wtf is at 0x2000FFF0
2012-02-18T07:44:52 < dongs> in f103/64k
2012-02-18T07:47:11 < dongs> do they lie about amount of sram in tehse things too? heh
2012-02-18T07:47:25 < dongs> first I find out 64 k devices actualyl have 128k of usable flash
2012-02-18T08:22:04 < zippe1> Hah.  Jumping to the ROM bootloader on the F2 never worked
2012-02-18T08:22:07 < zippe1> It was very annoying
2012-02-18T08:22:17 < zippe1> Did you have to flip the not-very-documented remap bit?
2012-02-18T08:25:57 < dongs> no, this is F1, and it just worked
2012-02-18T08:25:59 < dongs> just tested it.
2012-02-18T08:26:38 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/U8XKFB93.html
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2012-02-18T15:26:13 < dongs> this was cooler than I thought :) I can even leave leds on when I jump to bootloader and it doesn't touch them.
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2012-02-18T21:46:03 < TitanMKD> hi
2012-02-18T21:50:32 < Laurenceb_> anyone benchmarked usb serial on stm?
2012-02-18T21:50:58 < TitanMKD> Laurenceb good question
2012-02-18T21:51:15 < Laurenceb_> i need 1Mbyte/sec
2012-02-18T21:51:22 < Laurenceb_> was wondering if it was possible
2012-02-18T21:51:46 < TitanMKD> it's 12mbit/s max and you should include usb packets overhead it seems a bit high 1MB/s
2012-02-18T21:51:55 < Laurenceb_> i can hit that with some usb mass storage code
2012-02-18T21:52:06 < Laurenceb_> but wondered if anyone had tried this
2012-02-18T21:52:16 < Laurenceb_> otherwise ill have to attempt a benchmark with maple
2012-02-18T21:52:42 < TitanMKD> you plan to use USB CDC driver ?
2012-02-18T21:52:49 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-18T21:53:23 < TitanMKD> you can try easily by sending as fast as possible
2012-02-18T21:53:27 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-18T21:54:55 < TitanMKD> and check it on PC side with a software like Realterm on PC side to know the bytes/s
2012-02-18T21:57:15 < jpa-> or dd :)
2012-02-18T21:57:59 < TitanMKD> yes ;)
2012-02-18T22:00:21 < TitanMKD> anyone know if there's usable FIFO in STM32F4 ?
2012-02-18T22:00:50 < TitanMKD> especially if it's managed by hardware to manage 1 consumer & 1 producer ...
2012-02-18T22:01:20 < TitanMKD> I have see there's FIFO in DMA but they are internal ...
2012-02-18T22:05:42 < zyp> what kind of fifo?
2012-02-18T22:06:05 <+Steffanx> data :P
2012-02-18T22:06:41 < zyp> just general purpose? what would you need that for?
2012-02-18T22:07:30 < TitanMKD> I need a simple FIFO shared for 1 consumer and 1 producer
2012-02-18T22:07:39 < zyp> do a circular buffer in ram?
2012-02-18T22:07:48 < TitanMKD> else I will write it in SW ;)
2012-02-18T22:08:00 <+Steffanx> The DMA stuff is not useful?
2012-02-18T22:08:11 < TitanMKD> Yes I will use DMA with circular buffer or Flip/Flop mode ...
2012-02-18T22:08:50 < TitanMKD> it's just to have multiple task for multiple layer decoding of the data flow
2012-02-18T22:09:07 < TitanMKD> at each layer i refine the data until the last data
2012-02-18T22:09:19 < TitanMKD> ->last data=final data
2012-02-18T22:11:31 < TitanMKD> for example for NFC stuff i need oversampling step1) DMA+SPI as Slave, Step2) Retrieve Raw data and detect speed+type of data (manchester or modified miller) and decode basically the data including clock recovery to obtain the bit 0 or 1 and the next step it to send this raw data to an other layer to decode ISO14443A ...
2012-02-18T22:13:20 <+Steffanx> All this sounds perfect for an fpga :P
2012-02-18T22:13:24 < TitanMKD> yes ;)
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2012-02-18T22:13:49 < TitanMKD> it's a bit low level for uC but I think with STM32F4 it will be ok ;)
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2012-02-18T22:19:05 <+Steffanx> What are you going to do with it TitanMKD ?
2012-02-18T22:19:53 < TitanMKD> I'm doing a Proxmark3 for 10 time less price ;)
2012-02-18T22:20:08 <+Steffanx> Commercial?
2012-02-18T22:20:53 < TitanMKD> 1) I need a tool to sniff (man in the middle) NCF card(PICC)<->NFC reader for debug purpose
2012-02-18T22:20:56 < TitanMKD> no it's for fun
2012-02-18T22:24:18 <+Steffanx> Ah ok
2012-02-18T22:25:07 < TitanMKD> the other idea is to do Card Emulator ;)
2012-02-18T22:25:25 < TitanMKD> and 99% will be done by software STM32
2012-02-18T22:28:50 < TitanMKD> anyone here has already tested/interface FT2232H or other FTDI chip to STM32 using CPU style FIFO ?
2012-02-18T22:29:24 < TitanMKD> in fact I will test it because it can reach 50Mhz*8bits => so about 40MBytes/s ;)
2012-02-18T22:29:29 < Thorn> I'm planning to do something of that sort, most likely with spi
2012-02-18T22:30:01 < TitanMKD> SPI is at least 10 times slower
2012-02-18T22:30:47 < Thorn> well my immeadiate need is to talk to a can controller on my ft2232h board
2012-02-18T22:31:40 < TitanMKD> hmm
2012-02-18T22:31:49 < Thorn> it's only 1 mbit/s afair
2012-02-18T22:31:50 < TitanMKD> never tested GPIO bitbang
2012-02-18T22:33:08 < Thorn> right now I'm not planning to put a ff2232h and a stm32 on the same board
2012-02-18T22:34:46 < TitanMKD> ok
2012-02-18T22:37:30 < TitanMKD> Thorn the best is FT2232H has 2 channels, so you can use one for standard serial with terminal and the other one for realtime very high speed transfer
2012-02-18T22:37:55 < TitanMKD> and all USB 2.0 stuff are managed by FT2232H
2012-02-18T22:37:56 < Thorn> don't say that when dekar is around :D
2012-02-18T22:38:07 < TitanMKD> why ?
2012-02-18T22:38:08 < Thorn> he gates the ft2232h
2012-02-18T22:38:13 < Thorn> *hates
2012-02-18T22:39:23 < TitanMKD> maybe ULPI is better but we don't have it operational/connected on STM32F4 Discovery ;)
2012-02-18T22:39:41 < TitanMKD> and that requires an additional chip ...
2012-02-18T22:40:20 < Thorn> he says it has some kind of random delays and many i2c chips hang because of that
2012-02-18T22:41:09 < TitanMKD> ha yes maybe but i will never connect any I2C chip on FTDI chip ;)
2012-02-18T22:41:26 < Thorn> I don't have an opinion yet, I'm currently using it as 2 serial ports and it's solid, even with my top tier pcb design skills
2012-02-18T22:41:41 < TitanMKD> I use it only for high speed data transfer not for SPI/I2C stuff ;)
2012-02-18T22:42:09 < Thorn> however there's a lot in the d2xx api that can be relevant to those delays
2012-02-18T22:42:21 < TitanMKD> yes there's tons of options
2012-02-18T22:42:27 < Thorn> so maybe it's curable
2012-02-18T22:42:32 < TitanMKD> and the latency shall be lowered to 1ms also ...
2012-02-18T22:43:58 < TitanMKD> the problem is also on PC side it depends what you have on the USB bus because bandwidth is shared and there's no warranty on delay except in Isochonous transfer which are slow ...
2012-02-18T22:44:33 < Thorn> this is my board (old photo, it's fully assembled now) http://i.imgur.com/PQtDH.jpg
2012-02-18T22:45:00 < TitanMKD> cool nice job
2012-02-18T22:46:26 < Thorn> it's been running nonstop for a couple weeks now, no glitches or anything
2012-02-18T22:47:06 < Thorn> so the chip is reliable
2012-02-18T22:48:35 < TitanMKD> so all the code is on PC side ;)
2012-02-18T22:49:14 < TitanMKD> maybe you will have issue with CAN because of latency with FTDI chip because of USB ...
2012-02-18T22:49:47 < TitanMKD> but it also depends of your CAN chipset used if it has some internal buffers ...
2012-02-18T22:51:13 < Thorn> I think it does have buffers, but can't say anything more yet. I only read enough of the datasheet to design it into the board :)
2012-02-18T22:52:05 < Thorn> need to finish my next board first
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2012-02-18T23:09:59  * jpa- has been trying out PAWN (an interpreted language)
2012-02-18T23:10:16 < jpa-> it's actually quite fast on cortex-m3, like only 5-10x slower than native :P
2012-02-18T23:10:37 <+Steffanx> Not bad
2012-02-18T23:11:07 < jpa-> it has an assembler implementation for ARM
2012-02-18T23:11:40 < jpa-> that does all kinds of clever tricks.. like replacing the opcodes on the fly with jump pointers to op code implementation
2012-02-18T23:12:08 <+Steffanx> :S
2012-02-18T23:12:13 < jpa-> and the main interpreter only takes 6kB
2012-02-18T23:12:55 <+Steffanx> I prefer python on a chip :P
2012-02-18T23:13:14 < jpa-> i would too, but i have only 32kB to use :)
2012-02-18T23:13:27 <+Steffanx> No you dont
2012-02-18T23:13:29 <+Steffanx> get a better chip
2012-02-18T23:13:50 < jpa-> nah nah, remember what we discussed yesterday :)
2012-02-18T23:14:00 <+Steffanx> pebkec?
2012-02-18T23:14:04 <+Steffanx> Or otherwise i don't remember
2012-02-18T23:14:04 < jpa-> yes
2012-02-18T23:14:39 < jpa-> the blob of meat bkec want generally usable etc :)
2012-02-18T23:15:13 < jpa-> (well there would be 128kB but i don't dare to take all the 4 app slots :)
2012-02-18T23:22:48 < Thorn> do screw terminals with 0.1" pitch exist?
2012-02-18T23:23:56 < jpa-> sounds a bit tight space to fit a terminal.. 3.5mm does exist
2012-02-18T23:24:34 < jpa-> but apparently they do, according to google image search
2012-02-18T23:24:49 < jpa-> http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/02/04/part-finder-friday-0-1-screw-terminal-blocks/
2012-02-18T23:25:12 < Thorn> do want
2012-02-18T23:29:04 < Thorn> ouch, $1 per 2 pins
2012-02-18T23:31:38 < Thorn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-6-Poles-2-54mm-0-1-PCB-Universal-Screw-Terminal-Block-/400275461294
2012-02-18T23:31:44 < Titan___> have good night bye
2012-02-18T23:31:52 < Thorn> night
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2012-02-19T01:52:33 < CheBuzz> I'm trying to read the serial off the STM32 chip, but whenever I try to printf the results from my method, it seems to be crashing.  Any ideas why?  Here's the meat of the logic:
2012-02-19T01:52:36 < CheBuzz> for (i = 0; i < 12; ++i)
2012-02-19T01:52:36 < CheBuzz> {
2012-02-19T01:52:37 < CheBuzz> 	uint8_t b = *((volatile uint8_t  *)(0x1ffff7e8 + i));
2012-02-19T01:52:37 < CheBuzz> 	serial[i] = b;
2012-02-19T01:52:37 < CheBuzz> }
2012-02-19T01:57:04 < Thorn> try reading 3 uint32_t values instead of 12 bytes
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2012-02-19T02:04:50 < CheBuzz> What difference will that make?
2012-02-19T02:05:09 < Thorn> world-aligned accesses
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2012-02-19T02:11:55 < CheBuzz> 	for (i = 0; i < 3; i++)
2012-02-19T02:11:55 < CheBuzz> 	{
2012-02-19T02:11:56 < CheBuzz> 		uint32_t b = *((volatile uint32_t  *)(0x1ffff7e8 + i));
2012-02-19T02:11:56 < CheBuzz> 		serial[i] = b;
2012-02-19T02:11:56 < CheBuzz> 	}
2012-02-19T02:11:58 < CheBuzz> Still dies.
2012-02-19T02:13:05 < Thorn> if you insist on calculating addresses yourself do it properly:  + i*sizeof(uint32_t)
2012-02-19T02:13:20 < Thorn> could just use [] instead
2012-02-19T02:13:50 < Thorn> my old code:
2012-02-19T02:13:55 < Thorn> uint32_t *u_id = ((uint32_t *)((uint32_t)0x1FFFF7E8)); // RM0008 30.2
2012-02-19T02:13:55 < Thorn> usart_print("Unique ID: 0x"); usart_print(u32tohex(u_id[2])); usart_print(u32tohex(u_id[1])); usart_print(u32tohex(u_id[0]));  usart_print("\r\n");
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2012-02-19T02:17:09 < CheBuzz> Was that with libopencm3?
2012-02-19T02:18:03 < Thorn> what, usart_print() etc? no, these're mine, I replaced them with a printf() since
2012-02-19T02:18:55 < CheBuzz> Ah, well this project is using chibiOS, and that code is still dying in chprintf((BaseChannel *)&SD1,"Serial number: %u %u %u\n", u_id[2], u_id[1], u_id[0]);
2012-02-19T02:30:30 < Thorn> I just put it into my project and it works
2012-02-19T02:33:34 < Thorn> look for some unrelated problem, e.g. using printf too early before initialization
2012-02-19T02:34:08 < Thorn> btw rm0008 says these registers can be read in single bytes so it's not an alignment problem
2012-02-19T02:35:13 < CheBuzz> Is this an F1 chip you are using?
2012-02-19T02:35:39 < Thorn> yes f1
2012-02-19T02:36:01 < CheBuzz> Ah, I'm using F2.  But I thought they were the same across all the F1/F2/F4 line
2012-02-19T02:36:37 < Thorn> dunno, check the reference manual
2012-02-19T02:38:18 < CheBuzz> Base address: 0x1FFF 7A10.
2012-02-19T02:38:58 < Thorn> haha
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2012-02-19T04:05:15 < dongs> serial reading works for me.
2012-02-19T04:13:23 < jnosky> In my test I get 1Mbyte/sec on the F4
2012-02-19T04:14:34 < jnosky> Using "normal" bulk transfers, not by way of CDC
2012-02-19T04:16:04 < jnosky> I think the CDC will be slower, since the usb is host controlled and the 1msec polling by host is the killer
2012-02-19T04:16:41 < jnosky> Using the largest possible transfer packets, is really the key to performance
2012-02-19T04:21:12 < jnosky> Ahh Laurence has left the chan, ill try to let him know tomorrow about this
2012-02-19T04:51:05 < dongs> F4 using internal USB PHY? so full-speed?
2012-02-19T04:51:12 < dongs> 1mb is probably not so bad then.
2012-02-19T04:51:51 < dongs> theoretical limit would be like 1.5 and usb sucks, so 1 is about as good as youre gonna get.
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2012-02-19T09:19:56 < CheBuzz> dongs: Is that on the F1 series of an F2/F4?
2012-02-19T09:20:08 < CheBuzz> (F2 and F4 electronic signature are in the same place)
2012-02-19T09:20:21 < dongs> serial number? no just f1. but yeah as you notoiced reading the manual tells y ou the place for it.
2012-02-19T09:20:30 < CheBuzz> I am still having issues. Grrr.
2012-02-19T09:20:47 < dongs> rly?
2012-02-19T09:21:19 < CheBuzz> Yes.  It should be fairly straight forward.  But doing anything with whatever is read from those addresses causes a crash
2012-02-19T09:21:44 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/uZOAc080.html
2012-02-19T09:21:45 < CheBuzz> Not when it is read, but when it is used in printf, for example
2012-02-19T09:21:46 < dongs> wortsk for me
2012-02-19T09:22:09 < dongs> i'd make a copy into a temp var.
2012-02-19T09:22:15 < CheBuzz> Right, that's F1.  F2 and F4 are the ones giving me issues.
2012-02-19T09:22:17 < CheBuzz> Tried that.
2012-02-19T09:22:36 < dongs> but its same except the address.
2012-02-19T09:22:54 < CheBuzz> Right.  That's why I can't figure out what is causing the problem.
2012-02-19T09:24:05 < dongs> 0x1FFF 7A10 on f4.
2012-02-19T09:24:20 < dongs> the rest is same.
2012-02-19T09:25:11 < dongs> step the code, where does it crash?
2012-02-19T09:25:49 < dongs> if youre gonna tell me you dont have on-chip debugging working, im gonna tell you to fu and come back when that works
2012-02-19T09:27:06 < CheBuzz> Haha, no, that was the very second thing I got working
2012-02-19T09:27:29 < CheBuzz> It crashes the moment I try to do a chprintf (this is on chibios) or sprintf with it.
2012-02-19T09:27:50 < dongs> save it to a local temp var.
2012-02-19T09:28:08 < CheBuzz> That is what it does.
2012-02-19T09:28:21 < dongs> and other printf shit works fine?
2012-02-19T09:29:12 < CheBuzz> Yes, as long as I don't use the global variable used to store the device ID
2012-02-19T09:29:30 < dongs> what does the variable declaration look like
2012-02-19T09:29:33 < dongs> and waht does t he crash look like.
2012-02-19T09:29:39 < dongs> is it NMI, hardfault,etc
2012-02-19T09:30:38 < CheBuzz> hard fault.  And   uint32_t chipSerialNumber[3] = {0};
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2012-02-19T09:31:44 < dongs> and if you dont fill teh var with anythign
2012-02-19T09:31:46 < dongs> and just printf it
2012-02-19T09:31:47 < dongs> it works?
2012-02-19T09:32:07 < dongs> i'd guess youre running out of stack
2012-02-19T09:32:43 < CheBuzz> Ok, that's odd.  If I run it like  yours: chipSerialNumber[i] = (~devid[i]) ^ 0x12345678 it seems to work.
2012-02-19T09:32:55 < CheBuzz> But chipSerialNumber[i] = devid[i]; causes it to crash.
2012-02-19T09:33:29 < dongs> balls.
2012-02-19T09:33:31 < dongs> stack size?
2012-02-19T09:33:48 < CheBuzz> Stack size is huge for this thread (way more than it needs)
2012-02-19T09:34:01 < dongs> mkay.
2012-02-19T09:34:18 < CheBuzz> 300 bytes and it's using a little over 100
2012-02-19T09:37:13 < dongs> well, if it works, ship it.
2012-02-19T09:37:49 < CheBuzz> Yeah, I guess I'll just stick with that for now.  But I am lost as to why it is like that.
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2012-02-19T13:17:03 < sunilg> I am compiling my code using arm-none-eabi-gcc,ld. I want to remove venners from my code. I have tried using --no_inlineveneer but there is error
2012-02-19T13:17:04 < sunilg>  unrecognized option '--no_inlineveneer'
2012-02-19T13:17:13 < sunilg> any sollution?
2012-02-19T13:21:31 < zyp> try --no-inlineveneer
2012-02-19T13:21:55 < zyp> oh, it's actually _
2012-02-19T13:22:22 < zyp> but that's a flag for ARM's toolchain, not gcc?
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2012-02-19T13:51:11 < dongs> vee-whats
2012-02-19T13:52:44 < zyp> that's what ARM calls thunks
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2012-02-19T17:23:38 < TitanMKD> hi
2012-02-19T17:41:07 < dongs> hi.
2012-02-19T17:45:30 < dongs> sleepytime
2012-02-19T17:48:14 < Thorn> wth, 100 0.1R resistors cost $17?
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2012-02-20T03:19:45 < dongs> Thorn: youre doing it wrong
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2012-02-20T10:46:56 < sunilg> I want that my exception handler to returns to some other location. But in cortex m3 LR doesn't store return address, but 0xFFFFFFF9 and there is no point in changing it. So, where exactly return address of fault is stored? and how to change it?
2012-02-20T10:49:09 < jpa-> it is stored on stack
2012-02-20T10:50:04 < jpa-> it also depends on whether you are using separate process & exception stack
2012-02-20T10:50:22 < jpa-> but anyway, it is psp + 6 and you can change it there :)
2012-02-20T10:50:50 < sunilg> jpa: ok.. Thank you. I will try it out.
2012-02-20T10:51:09 < jpa-> asm("mrs %0, psp" : "=r"(psp) : :);  may be the best way to always get the PSP, though if you have only one stack, register void *stack_pointer asm("sp");  will work also
2012-02-20T10:51:59 < jpa-> (also remember that the bottom bit of the address must be set to indicate thumb mode, otherwise you get INVSTATE fault)
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2012-02-20T10:54:51 < sunilg> jpa: yup. I am using GDB and tried to print psp using p $psp. I shows Void. It shows value of SP, But p $sp+6 It shows some wrong return address. I tried info frames but even then i couldn't get correct value of return address.
2012-02-20T10:55:07 < sunilg> *it
2012-02-20T10:55:23 < jpa-> are you using some RTOS that might be setting the separate stacks?
2012-02-20T10:55:43 < sunilg> nope..
2012-02-20T10:56:04 < jpa-> ok, then maybe your ISR uses the stack pointer itself
2012-02-20T10:56:34 < jpa-> check the disassembly to see how much and you can add it in the debugger.. but the right way is to have a naked function that stores the stack pointer and calls the actual function
2012-02-20T10:57:29 < sunilg> ok..checking..
2012-02-20T10:57:49 < jpa-> __builtin_frame_address(0) may work also, but i don't have much confidence in it :P
2012-02-20T10:58:27 < jpa-> "info frame" in gdb may do the same, i.e. give the stack pointer when the function started
2012-02-20T11:04:16 < jpa-> (btw, something like x /16 $sp is quite useful, then you can see where the correct address is and work backwards to understand why it's there :)
2012-02-20T11:04:54 < sunilg> jpa: here is output of info frames : http://pastebin.com/SJ9waEu6
2012-02-20T11:04:56 < sunilg> This is disassembly :   http://pastebin.com/NRwAE6xp
2012-02-20T11:04:58 < sunilg> Fault occurs at 0x080002b8 but this is nothing in info frames as well as sp+6
2012-02-20T11:06:48 < sunilg> it goes in mem_manage_handler and just pushes r7
2012-02-20T11:11:37 < jpa-> try the x
2012-02-20T11:11:58 < jpa-> (btw. i can't remember if you need p $sp+6 or p $sp+4*6 in gdb)
2012-02-20T11:15:13 < sunilg> ok.trying..
2012-02-20T11:15:27 < jpa-> bbl ->
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2012-02-21T01:09:08 < sunilg> I am unable to find return address of my exception. It is always present somewhere in stack. I found it at sp+40 when I was in usage fault handler and sp+48 when I was in mem fault handler. It seems that in some cases it is not pushing all registers. Is this correct? If yes, how to change return address? I read reference manual. But I am still stuck. Acc to reference manual I must find it at...
2012-02-21T01:09:10 < sunilg> ...sp+24. But this is not the case.
2012-02-21T01:10:41 < jpa-> i just implement hardfault and no other handlers; any unhandled exceptions propagate to hardfault anyway
2012-02-21T01:12:04 < jpa-> your memfault handler pushes one register (4 bytes) and then does   sub sp, #20  so the pc is at sp+4+20+24, just like you found it was
2012-02-21T01:14:03 < jpa-> your usage fault handler looks totally crazy btw, are you compiling without optimization or something?
2012-02-21T01:15:11 < sunilg> yup.. there is nothing in usage fault handler.
2012-02-21T01:15:39 < sunilg> probably thats why it is not pushing all registers i guess.
2012-02-21T01:16:15 < jpa-> well exception entry already pushes r0-r3 so it has something to work with
2012-02-21T01:17:12 < jpa-> but i recommend the trick of adding a naked function as a wrapper
2012-02-21T01:17:44 < sunilg> how to do that?
2012-02-21T01:22:38 < jpa-> register volatile void** stackpointer asm("sp");  void* _RealHardFaultHandler() { return my_new_return_address; } void __attribute__((naked)) HardFaultHandler() { *(sp + 6) = _RealHardFaultHandler(); }    or something
2012-02-21T01:22:45 < sunilg> jpa: ok. I have address of actual function But It is in XN region, So I have to change it to somewhere in RAM where I have copied the function. Writing wrapper function will give me its address in XN reigion.
2012-02-21T01:23:18 < sunilg> ok..trying..
2012-02-21T01:24:54 < sunilg> jpa: sorry buddy If I tell something wrong or repeat questions . I am actually stuck at it badly.
2012-02-21T01:25:19 < jpa-> no problem, this is not trivial stuff
2012-02-21T01:25:29 < jpa-> i have never tried changing the address, but fetching it is normal stuff :)
2012-02-21T01:36:04 < sunilg> whenever I try to use *(stack_pointer + 6) =  _RealHardFaultHandler(); it gives error: invalid use of void expression. Will I have to type cast it to something else. Here stack_pointer is register variable.
2012-02-21T01:37:08 < sunilg> error gone.. I had not taken double pointer
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2012-02-21T19:29:51 < TitanMKD> For those interested I have coded a working NFC sniffer using SPI Slave+DMA Circular Double Buffer ;)
2012-02-21T19:30:01 < TitanMKD> on my STM32F4 Discovery board
2012-02-21T19:30:06 < zyp> interesting
2012-02-21T19:30:32 < TitanMKD> it's a very cool feature because the sampling is running at 3.39Mhz
2012-02-21T19:30:41 < zyp> how are you clocking it?
2012-02-21T19:30:42 < TitanMKD> and it will be impossible in software
2012-02-21T19:30:47 <+Steffanx> You're fast TitanMKD
2012-02-21T19:31:01 < TitanMKD> i clock it using TRF7970A Out Clock configured to 13.56/4 ;)
2012-02-21T19:32:11 < zyp> tapping the nfc transceiver is cheating :p
2012-02-21T19:32:18 < TitanMKD> hehe ;)
2012-02-21T19:32:36 < zyp> tell me when you're doing clock recovery from the actual signal :p
2012-02-21T19:33:08 < TitanMKD> i also synchronize it with the TRF7970A IRQ which means Power Detected on card so data are not far and i filter data until i found data != of 0x00 or 0xFF ;)
2012-02-21T19:33:16 < Laurenceb> cant you just grb the nfc with adc?
2012-02-21T19:33:21 < Laurenceb> whats the frequency?
2012-02-21T19:33:53 <+Steffanx> 13.56 i guess
2012-02-21T19:34:07 < Laurenceb> so easy
2012-02-21T19:34:10 < TitanMKD> it's 3.39Mhz to have at least 4* oversampling on 847.5KHz data which is the fastest NFC transfer
2012-02-21T19:34:15 < Laurenceb> just grab a ferrite
2012-02-21T19:34:31 < TitanMKD> i can also set the clock to 6.67Mhz or 13.56Mhz
2012-02-21T19:34:59 < TitanMKD> and it's all done by hardware
2012-02-21T19:35:24 < TitanMKD> I have think about a timer+IT but it will take too much CPU to retrieve each bit of the signal
2012-02-21T19:35:27 < Laurenceb> you need to do it with a ferrite rod
2012-02-21T19:36:26 < TitanMKD> yes or i could also build a data recovery using components
2012-02-21T19:36:36 < TitanMKD> but my idea is to recover any frequency ;)
2012-02-21T19:36:55 < TitanMKD> 106Khz, 212Khz, 424Khz and 848Khz
2012-02-21T19:36:58 < jon1012> a simple question about stm32f4 : changing PLL_N in syst_em_stm32f4xx.c to a wrong value can result in overclocking the chip ?
2012-02-21T19:37:18 < TitanMKD> jon1012 yes ;)
2012-02-21T19:37:40 < TitanMKD> jon1012 or maybe the overclocking is detected by PLL and a default value is used I don't know
2012-02-21T19:37:52 < jpa-> overclocking the chip may result in superior performance?
2012-02-21T19:38:09 < TitanMKD> jpa- of course but it will also result in crash ;)
2012-02-21T19:38:30 < TitanMKD> jpa- i'm sure it can run at 200Mhz without any problem ;)
2012-02-21T19:38:40 <+Steffanx> TitanMKD, dekar overclocked his 72MHz stm32F1xx too 128MHz
2012-02-21T19:38:46 <+Steffanx> -o
2012-02-21T19:38:53 < TitanMKD> yes and at 168Mhz it's never hot
2012-02-21T19:39:04 <+Steffanx> He didn't test all peripherals ..
2012-02-21T19:39:07 < TitanMKD> not even 50°C
2012-02-21T19:39:33 < TitanMKD> anyway why to overclock it when at 168Mhz there's so much power for lot of things
2012-02-21T19:39:46 <+Steffanx> Moooar power
2012-02-21T19:40:44 < TitanMKD> zyp about clock recovery i will do it by software ;)
2012-02-21T19:41:08 < TitanMKD> zyp the idea is here => at first sample i need to count how many 0 until i found a 1
2012-02-21T19:41:36 < TitanMKD> zyp and i shift that so all 1 are together in each 8bits data ;)
2012-02-21T19:42:14 < TitanMKD> zyp after i will do a filter to take into account first or last bit can be 0 or 1 depending where the sampling is done to filter that
2012-02-21T19:43:09 < TitanMKD> zyp with such pattern i will do filter and match for miller modified or manchester coding
2012-02-21T19:46:51 < zyp> ah, right
2012-02-21T19:47:23 < zyp> then you could just hook the clock to a timer pin and make your own
2012-02-21T19:53:10 < jon1012> I am doubting my code is running at 168mhz :(
2012-02-21T19:53:28 < jon1012> in the examples I have PLL-M is at 25 and PLL_N at 336
2012-02-21T19:53:37 < jon1012> that's why I want to tinked with it
2012-02-21T19:53:41 < jon1012> tinker*
2012-02-21T20:05:22 < jon1012> indeed
2012-02-21T20:05:31 < jon1012> I checked other examples and now it's much faster
2012-02-21T20:06:03 < Thorn> btw, has anyone heard about stm32f0?
2012-02-21T20:06:58 < Thorn> after releasing the fastest cortex-m they seem to be going to release the slowest one :)
2012-02-21T20:09:07 <+Steffanx> uh
2012-02-21T20:09:53 <+Steffanx> Cortex-m0 ..
2012-02-21T20:10:23 < Thorn> seems similar to lpc11xx
2012-02-21T20:10:45 < jon1012> someone knows if there are info on the minimum bare system to put an stm32f4 onto ? 'once I've done my project with the eval board I want to make a pcb)
2012-02-21T20:12:19 < Thorn> check the datasheet and the eval board schematics
2012-02-21T20:12:59 < jon1012> mmh there isn't something like "put a pullup resistor there, that resistal there, 3v there and 5v there and poof you're done" ? lol
2012-02-21T20:13:13 < jon1012> resistal => crystal sorry
2012-02-21T20:13:58 < Thorn> for f1, it's 3.3V, crystal, decoupling caps, Vdda filter (optional), boot0 to gnd, reset to gnd
2012-02-21T20:14:05 < jon1012> thanks :)
2012-02-21T20:14:14 <+Steffanx> xtal isn't necessary :P
2012-02-21T20:14:25 < Thorn> *reset to Vcc actually
2012-02-21T20:15:27 < Thorn> jtag or swd interface might come in handy too
2012-02-21T20:15:28 < jpa-> and if you want crystal, you want load caps for it also
2012-02-21T20:15:44 < Thorn> sure
2012-02-21T20:15:59 <+Steffanx> The website of ST doesn't say much about the F0 Thorn ..
2012-02-21T20:16:08 < Thorn> if not using jtag, wire up usart1 to load code (again, this is for f1)
2012-02-21T20:16:31 <+Steffanx> SWD :D
2012-02-21T20:16:54 < Thorn> I found slides from a seminar in russia, they say "early 2012"
2012-02-21T20:17:05 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2012-02-21T20:17:09 <+Steffanx> I found the same document
2012-02-21T20:18:29 < Thorn> btw it looks like they require one of the decoupling caps to be a Ta but nobody seems to be doing that except olimexino-stm32
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2012-02-21T20:23:15 < Thorn> I'm going to have a hard time squeezing the analog power filter into my pcb
2012-02-21T20:24:39 < jpa-> it may not be that important/useful, depending on what you do with the analog pins
2012-02-21T20:25:47 < Thorn> I'm going to use them, and the most stupid thing of all is I want a dc/dc converter on that board (if it at all fits, I've like 40x20mm for it + current sense amp)
2012-02-21T20:27:39 < Thorn> and I'm still seeing a lot of adc noise on my olimex board despite the filtering that it has
2012-02-21T20:29:11 < jpa-> can you put an LDO instead of a filter? they are quite small and more effective
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2012-02-21T20:30:49 < Thorn> effective against high frequency noise? something like lm1117?
2012-02-21T20:31:31 < jpa-> oh well, depends a bit on everything :)
2012-02-21T20:31:38 < jpa-> the effectiveness, i mean
2012-02-21T20:31:41 < jpa-> lm1117 is fine
2012-02-21T20:31:47 < Thorn> I do have 5V so I can
2012-02-21T20:31:55 < Thorn> what I don't have is a scope x_x
2012-02-21T20:33:14 < jpa-> :/
2012-02-21T20:34:36 < Thorn> which makes the dc/dc idea even more stupid
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2012-02-21T20:36:28 <+Steffanx> Time to buy one Thorn ?
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2012-02-21T20:36:52 < Thorn> looks like it
2012-02-21T20:37:16 < Thorn> although all I can afford is a rigol or atten etc
2012-02-21T20:37:31 <+Steffanx> Those probably fit your needs anyway..
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2012-02-21T20:37:59  * Steffanx has a 'cheap' rigol :)
2012-02-21T20:38:15 <+Steffanx> I've an analog one too, but it's broken
2012-02-21T20:38:44 < Thorn> the only alternative wouls be to travel to australia, kill dave jones and steal his $11k agilent
2012-02-21T20:38:58 <+Steffanx> Soapy water + electronics is noo good
2012-02-21T20:39:57 < Thorn> you used it in the bathroom? :)
2012-02-21T20:40:00 <+Steffanx> I spilled water over my analog scope during some experiments with water
2012-02-21T20:40:10 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
2012-02-21T20:40:30 <+Steffanx> Not in the bathroom, in my own room :)
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2012-02-21T21:11:37 < Thorn> why do most development boards use worst possible buttons located in the worst possible place for reset? this olimex board has huge 12mm tact buttons but the only one that I use regularly is a 6x3mm reset right between the jtag connector and pin headers
2012-02-21T21:15:25 <+Steffanx> Most pcb designers are no product designers..
2012-02-21T21:18:46 < Thorn> another one is smd leds next to large tall parts so you can't see them
2012-02-21T21:19:16 < Thorn> this one has a led between two 12mm buttons
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2012-02-21T23:43:13 < Laurenceb_> are there any F4 eagle libraries?
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2012-02-21T23:47:39 <+Steffanx> pass
2012-02-21T23:48:32 <+Steffanx> That's one of the things i don't like in EAGLE.. the part/component designer
2012-02-21T23:54:11 < zippe> Steffanx: Eagle is full of things to dislike
2012-02-21T23:54:19 < zippe> The UI is just awful
2012-02-21T23:54:35 <+Steffanx> True, but it's free-ish and it works :)
2012-02-21T23:54:41 < zippe> sort-of
2012-02-21T23:54:53 < zippe> I wish that the Labcenter guys had done a free version
2012-02-21T23:54:59 <+Steffanx> KiCAD is free-ish and doesn't work
2012-02-21T23:55:06 <+Steffanx> xxxx is non-free and works very well :0
2012-02-21T23:55:10 < zippe> isis/ares are so very much better
2012-02-21T23:55:33 < zippe> The geda stuff is also free, but I can't work out if it works or not
--- Day changed Wed Feb 22 2012
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2012-02-22T00:13:01 < Laurenceb_> KiCAD works
2012-02-22T00:13:07 < Laurenceb_> but i dont like the gui
2012-02-22T00:13:11 < Laurenceb_> eagle gui is nice
2012-02-22T00:13:47 < zyp> I like the cli
2012-02-22T00:14:03 < zyp> some stuff are done faster with a command than lots of clicking around
2012-02-22T00:17:17 < Thorn> diptrace looks half-finished but does work, and component/pattern creation is actually convenient
2012-02-22T00:29:41 < Thorn> they're releasing 2MB stm32f4 in the second half on 2012
2012-02-22T00:32:40 < Laurenceb_> zyp: that too
2012-02-22T00:33:00 < Laurenceb_> yumyumyum
2012-02-22T00:33:04 < Laurenceb_> 2MB
2012-02-22T00:33:33 < Laurenceb_> will be big enough to run linux soon
2012-02-22T00:34:20 < Thorn> they need to put 640Kb of SRAM in there and use that Bill Gates quote as a marketing slogan
2012-02-22T00:34:28 < Thorn> "640KB ought to be enough for anybody"
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2012-02-22T00:38:13 < zippe> Laurenceb: Seriously, if you think the Eagle UI is "nice" then you have never used a decent tool
2012-02-22T00:38:31 <+izua> hooray for dxp.
2012-02-22T00:38:44 < zippe> Laurenceb: Grab a copy of the Proteus demo:
2012-02-22T00:38:45 < zippe> http://www.labcenter.com/download/prodemo_download.cfm#professional
2012-02-22T00:39:16 <+izua> they even send cds back at your place for free
2012-02-22T00:41:28 < Thorn> first samples of stm32f050 and f051 will be available in March, stm32f052 in 4th quarter
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2012-02-22T00:42:21 < Thorn> the latter will have usb fs
2012-02-22T00:42:43 < Thorn> no jtag, only swd
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2012-02-22T01:33:47 < zippe> What's the F0?  CortexM0?
2012-02-22T01:34:24 < Thorn> right
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2012-02-22T13:47:30 < jon1012> powered by stm32  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQd6UJSiBaQ :D
2012-02-22T13:47:57 < Laurenceb> haha
2012-02-22T14:02:51 < Thorn> where did he get that panel?
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2012-02-22T14:42:04 < jon1012> Thorn, where did I get it ? :)
2012-02-22T14:42:14 < jon1012> Thorn, I'm importing those to sell them
2012-02-22T14:42:42 < Thorn> so it's your project?
2012-02-22T14:42:43 < Thorn> nice
2012-02-22T14:42:48 < jon1012> yeah
2012-02-22T14:43:29 < jon1012> I'm opening an ecommerce site for diy electronics
2012-02-22T14:43:58 < jon1012> I'll sell a lot of stuff like that one :)
2012-02-22T14:48:16 < jon1012> (like adafruit does, but woth example codes and stuff based also on stm32 and msp430 and not just arduino)
2012-02-22T14:48:19 < jon1012> with*
2012-02-22T14:53:16 < Thorn> that's cool
2012-02-22T14:53:27 < Thorn> especially the non-arduino approach ;)
2012-02-22T14:53:39 < Thorn> hopefully it will be successful
2012-02-22T14:54:36 < dongs> what does gcc-arm #define wehn its used
2012-02-22T14:54:49 < jon1012> Thorn, thanks :) I hope too :p
2012-02-22T14:55:00 < dongs> something like __gnuarm__ or somecrap
2012-02-22T14:55:03 < zyp> dongs, USING_GAY_COMPILER
2012-02-22T14:55:08 < dongs> zyp: no doubt
2012-02-22T14:55:28 < dongs> its funny cuz its true :)
2012-02-22T14:55:31 < dongs> anyweay, waht does it set
2012-02-22T14:55:34 < dongs> i cant find anything relevant
2012-02-22T14:55:35 -!- izua [~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has quit [Quit: :tiuQ]
2012-02-22T14:56:11 < dongs> mabye __GNUC__
2012-02-22T14:56:37 < Laurenceb> iirc that sounds familiar
2012-02-22T14:57:42 < dongs> flyback-: have you done anything useful yet.
2012-02-22T14:57:49 < Laurenceb> dongs and flyback should get on well
2012-02-22T14:57:50 < dongs> and by useful i mean dying or something similar
2012-02-22T14:57:58 < Laurenceb> two of a kind
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2012-02-22T14:58:20 < dongs> ok i got this building in eclipse + codesourcery.
2012-02-22T14:58:42 < dongs> not sure why it would work since i made it build ALL the gcc startup files
2012-02-22T14:58:45 < dongs> and didnt use any linkers scripts.
2012-02-22T15:01:57 < dongs> ok i dont think this is gonna work
2012-02-22T15:02:00 < dongs> i should just stop trying
2012-02-22T15:02:33 < Laurenceb> kill you
2012-02-22T15:03:29  * Laurenceb outtrolled
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2012-02-22T15:09:00 < dongs> fucked. gcc is complaining EXTI15_10_IRQn is undefined. yet I have -DSTM32F10X_MD and this is in stm32f10x.h under #ifdef STM32F10X_MD. why the fuck would it be undefined?
2012-02-22T15:10:05 < Laurenceb> it needs to be in a linker
2012-02-22T15:10:30 < dongs> Laurenceb: ? what
2012-02-22T15:10:37 < Laurenceb> the name needs to be declared
2012-02-22T15:10:41 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2012-02-22T15:10:47 < dongs> its a enum
2012-02-22T15:10:48 < Laurenceb> thats the number
2012-02-22T15:10:50 < Laurenceb> nvm
2012-02-22T15:10:56 < Laurenceb> i thought you mean the isr
2012-02-22T15:10:59 < Thorn> dongs: do you have #include "stm32f10x_exti.h" in _conf.h?
2012-02-22T15:10:59 < dongs> a huge enum { } with #ifdef inside of it to declare shit for each paltform
2012-02-22T15:11:16 < dongs> Thorn: thats irrelevant, the stuff is defined in f103x.h
2012-02-22T15:12:35 < zyp> m1 is targeted for FPGAs IIRC
2012-02-22T15:12:51 < zyp> while m0 and the others are targeted for ASIC
2012-02-22T15:13:15 < zyp> no.
2012-02-22T15:13:41 < zyp> of course it have interrupts
2012-02-22T15:14:07 < jon1012> do you guys recommend using an rtos on the stm32 ?
2012-02-22T15:14:14 < jon1012> to handle concurrent tasks
2012-02-22T15:15:54 < dongs> no.  you fail it.
2012-02-22T15:15:57 < zyp> yes, m4 is m3 + simd extensions + fpu
2012-02-22T15:16:13 < dongs> oh, the core sure.
2012-02-22T15:16:26 < zyp> I mean, + optional fpu
2012-02-22T15:16:33 < dongs> i bought that fucking kinetis shit
2012-02-22T15:16:41 < dongs> when it was the only M4 thing available
2012-02-22T15:16:46 < zyp> with the m4 instead of m4f
2012-02-22T15:16:52 < dongs> and found out all -es chips that were out at the time didnt have fpu
2012-02-22T15:16:53 < dongs> self-raped
2012-02-22T15:17:09 < zyp> I also considered getting that
2012-02-22T15:17:23 < dongs> freescale toolchain is absolute aids
2012-02-22T15:17:34 < zyp> also, I wonder how lpc4300 are coming along
2012-02-22T15:17:41 < dongs> the dualcore shit?
2012-02-22T15:17:42 < dongs> should be out by now
2012-02-22T15:18:05 < zyp> have been announced for way longer than stm32f4, but weren't out last time I checked
2012-02-22T15:18:28 < dongs> the chinaman you got jlink from said he was gonna have lpc4300 evalboard out after cny
2012-02-22T15:18:33 < zyp> oh, looks like they're out now
2012-02-22T15:18:49 < Laurenceb> dual M4 with fpu?
2012-02-22T15:18:54 < dongs> m4 + m0
2012-02-22T15:19:25 < Laurenceb> boring
2012-02-22T15:19:26 < dongs> its not. you havent used either m0 or m4 yet to really care.
2012-02-22T15:19:47 < Laurenceb> heh
2012-02-22T15:19:47 < Thorn> nxp has huge availability problems with anything larger than lpc1768
2012-02-22T15:22:52 < zyp> the most boring part is that m0 is armv6 while m4 is armv7, so even though they share the memory space, if you want to call a function from both processors, you either have to double it up or compile it as v6
2012-02-22T15:23:25 < Laurenceb> eww
2012-02-22T15:24:04 < Thorn> and gcc can only switch architectures on a file level with command line switches
2012-02-22T15:24:31 < dongs> just compile each file twice.
2012-02-22T15:24:40 < dongs> --funroll-loops
2012-02-22T15:31:26 < Thorn> yes except "analog pins" (those with adc functions)
2012-02-22T15:53:59 < ureif> Is an ARM7 (LPC2148) processor fast enough for a 10 bit 40MSPS ADC ?
2012-02-22T15:54:05 < ureif> to process the data in realtime
2012-02-22T15:54:57 < zyp> depends what you mean by process
2012-02-22T15:55:07 < ureif> I'm not too clear about that myself.
2012-02-22T15:55:13 < ureif> I'm thinking of getting into SDR
2012-02-22T15:55:39 < ureif> so the typical processor load that would entail ?
2012-02-22T15:56:12 < ureif> say I want to do realtime FFT on the output of that ADC
2012-02-22T15:56:12 < zyp> ureif, but the answer is probably no
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2012-02-22T16:30:56 < jpa-> urief: LPC2148 has 60MHz max clock if i read correctly; no way it is going to do FFT at 40MSPS
2012-02-22T16:32:16 < jpa-> this FFT library is quite fast AFAIK, and it needs about 100 instructions per sample: http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm_cortex-m3_microcontroller/f/473/t/44034.aspx
2012-02-22T16:33:32 < urief> jpa-: that looks interesting
2012-02-22T16:33:44 < jpa-> thank Laurenceb for the link :P
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2012-02-22T16:34:01 < jpa-> not all SDR stuff is as slow as FFT, but usually atleast 10 cycles per sample
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2012-02-22T16:34:18 < urief> I thought of the LPC2148 since I already have it. I guess I could use it to send the data over usb to a PC and do everything there.
2012-02-22T16:35:52 < Laurenceb> ive written gps that requires about 0.55clk/sample
2012-02-22T16:36:16 < urief> gps ?
2012-02-22T16:36:22 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-02-22T16:36:38 < Laurenceb> process 8 samples at a time :P
2012-02-22T16:36:38 < urief> Global Positioning System ?
2012-02-22T16:36:40 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-02-22T16:36:56 < urief> 8 4bit samples ?
2012-02-22T16:37:10 < Laurenceb> not exactly - zero badded 4bit
2012-02-22T16:37:12 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-02-22T16:38:43 < jpa-> Laurenceb: what kind of rf receiver do you have for it?
2012-02-22T16:38:53 < Laurenceb> se4120
2012-02-22T16:39:30 < Thorn> blackfin sales are going to drop because of you :)
2012-02-22T16:40:33 < Laurenceb> heh
2012-02-22T16:40:56 < Laurenceb> turns out nibble based processing on f4 is alomst as good as bit based on blackfin
2012-02-22T16:42:13 <+izua> what sort of input do you get from that receiver? o_O
2012-02-22T16:42:30 < Laurenceb> 16.368mhz spi
2012-02-22T16:43:43 < jpa-> i guess most of the input processing for gps is just adding a bunch of samples together?
2012-02-22T16:43:47 < Laurenceb> yes
2012-02-22T16:43:54 < Laurenceb> load, xor some, add
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2012-02-22T18:21:09 < jpa-> hmm 93 bytes ROM left
2012-02-22T18:21:16 < jpa-> guess it's time to remove some useless functions
2012-02-22T18:28:01 < dongs> slap in a bigger chip.
2012-02-22T18:28:33 < dongs> or see if your "64k" device actually has "128k" of usable flash.
2012-02-22T18:32:00 < Thorn> I'm not using Vbus but I want to detect when host is connected, do I simply pull Vbus to gnd and connect it to a gpio pin?
2012-02-22T18:32:41 < dongs> yuo can like stick a resistor divider on vbus going to some random gpio and use exti or something.
2012-02-22T18:32:49 < dongs> vbus being, vbus pin on usb.
2012-02-22T18:33:04 < dongs> the flyback- way of doing it.
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2012-02-22T18:35:06 < Thorn> he didn't patent it did he?
2012-02-22T18:35:22 < dongs> he was too busy dying.
2012-02-22T18:36:22 < Thorn> good, because the idea of connecting the 1.5K resistor only when the device is ready is actually patented
2012-02-22T18:36:33 < dongs> haha.
2012-02-22T18:36:34 < dongs> by cypress?
2012-02-22T18:36:43 < Thorn> I think so
2012-02-22T18:44:55 < Laurenceb> timer period, is that offset by 1?
2012-02-22T18:45:01 < Laurenceb> oh it is nvm
2012-02-22T18:46:39 < dongs> yes
2012-02-22T18:52:02 < Thorn> something like this? http://i.imgur.com/Xq7bu.jpg
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2012-02-22T18:52:15 < Thorn> (1.5k is internal to stf202)
2012-02-22T18:52:48 < dongs> omg, i had to wake up for this, someone is using diptrace
2012-02-22T18:53:13 < Thorn> ...
2012-02-22T18:53:48 < Thorn> I've a free 1000 pin license, so why not
2012-02-22T18:54:05 < dongs> i've got a non-free unlimited license, and it fucking rules.
2012-02-22T18:54:32 < dongs> are you sure youre not overengineering this?
2012-02-22T18:54:36 < dongs> what are you actually trying to achieve
2012-02-22T18:54:39 < Thorn> ah. I though you disapproved
2012-02-22T18:54:46 < dongs> no i very much approve.
2012-02-22T18:54:55 < dongs> people need to stop using the garbage that is eagle
2012-02-22T18:55:56 < Thorn> I want the mcu to detect usb connection and activate the pullup when/if it can depending on what it's doing
2012-02-22T18:57:48 < Thorn> diptrace seems half-unfinished. some  basic functionality is missing (like rotation of several elements around a common center)
2012-02-22T18:58:02 < dongs> you mean you dont know how to select, group, and rotate? :)
2012-02-22T18:58:43 < dongs> there's a few things that are broken on it, but thats why they have a bugtracker and ive been filling it with bugs for hte last couple years
2012-02-22T18:58:46 < Thorn> won't work in layout and pattern editor
2012-02-22T18:59:01 < dongs> but at least they DO have a bugtracker and they fix things
2012-02-22T18:59:52 < Thorn> also almost no hotkeys (thankfully esc does switch to select mode)
2012-02-22T19:00:06 < dongs> thats being worked on.
2012-02-22T19:00:47 < Thorn> in 3d modeling they teach people to have one hand on mouse and another on the keyboard, you can work very fast that way
2012-02-22T19:01:16 < Thorn> thanks to the fact that almost every key on the keyboard has a function
2012-02-22T19:01:24 < dongs> yeah, i agree. they also did something dumb which I kept bugging them about, they took out all the keyboard hotkeys from right click menus
2012-02-22T19:01:44 < Thorn> that's just wrong
2012-02-22T19:01:50 < dongs> like you could rightclick/r to unroute a trace before but they took that shit out because .... i forgot what their reason was
2012-02-22T19:01:58 < dongs> so now you gotta right click, click.
2012-02-22T19:02:13 < dongs> they said since they're working on a more advanced hotkeys shit this wont be needed
2012-02-22T19:02:59 < dongs> but besides these few things... i think its been pretty good to me
2012-02-22T19:03:16 < dongs> ive done 4 layer stuff, bga, DDR routing (lol manual length matchin) etc.
2012-02-22T19:05:08 < Thorn> also when you click on a pad in layout a ratline appears, you can accidentally disconnect/connect things
2012-02-22T19:05:33 < dongs> right, thats why you renew from schematic once a nd then periodically ctrl-alt-u to sync back to schematic
2012-02-22T19:05:54 < dongs> also "deleteing" a routed trace deletes the ratline, so you gotta refresh, otherwise, always use unroute trace instead of delete if you fuck up routing
2012-02-22T19:06:03 < Thorn> I'm doing both at the same time so I sync often anyway :)
2012-02-22T19:06:17 < Thorn> yeah that too
2012-02-22T19:06:41 < dongs> thats not a bug though, thats just how it works
2012-02-22T19:08:23 < Thorn> they need to see maya preferences dialog at least once
2012-02-22T19:08:36 < Thorn> you can turn on/off / tweak thousands of things there
2012-02-22T19:08:51 < Thorn> what you can't, you can using scripts
2012-02-22T19:09:16 < Thorn> a feature like this should be optional
2012-02-22T19:09:28 < dongs> i like the colored nets stuff while routing. makes it easy to mark power/signal lines etc
2012-02-22T19:09:51 < dongs> also i finally forced them to do various manual route options while the trace is being made like to change corner type or to turn off snap etc.
2012-02-22T19:10:09 < dongs> auto-snap really pissed me off a times.
2012-02-22T19:10:15 < dongs> but now ctrl+ and its gone. yay.
2012-02-22T19:12:40 < Thorn> I also want little arrows in led symbols to always point up regardless of how the symbol is rotated!
2012-02-22T19:12:57 < dongs> hah
2012-02-22T19:13:02 < dongs> WONT_FIX
2012-02-22T19:14:30 < dongs> anyway wtf, i thought i asked but I guess i didnt - why do you need to have mcu disconnecting itself from USB when its plugged in?
2012-02-22T19:15:16 < jpa-> if it doesn't want to talk to the dirty pc? :)
2012-02-22T19:16:03 < Thorn> well, disconnecting may also be useful :) but I thought about not connecting in the first place until it's ready
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2012-02-22T19:16:23 < jpa-> hello Steffann
2012-02-22T19:16:28 <+Steffann> Lo
2012-02-22T19:16:38 < Thorn> this circuit needs a led but I have no pcb room for it :(
2012-02-22T19:16:50 <+Steffann> Ofcourse you have
2012-02-22T19:16:50 < jpa-> not even 0603 led?
2012-02-22T19:17:00 <+Steffann> ^^
2012-02-22T19:17:00 < jpa-> or 0402?
2012-02-22T19:17:10 < dongs> connect vcc to gnd somewhere and make a led out of pcb trace
2012-02-22T19:17:12 < dongs> while it smokes
2012-02-22T19:17:17 < jpa-> i wonder if they make 0201 or 01005 leds
2012-02-22T19:17:52 < Thorn> I think they do, for some kind of matrix displays
2012-02-22T19:17:53 <+Steffann> 0201 .. yes
2012-02-22T19:19:00 < dongs> 0402 leds  do seem to exist.
2012-02-22T19:19:05 <+Steffann> 0201 too
2012-02-22T19:22:06 < Thorn> btw, ftdi devices can be commanded to reconnect themselves via d2xx
2012-02-22T19:25:46 < zippe> You're talking about SED and LER here
2012-02-22T19:26:00 <+Steffann> Uh?
2012-02-22T19:26:17 < Thorn> also SET
2012-02-22T19:26:29 <+Steffann> zlog
2012-02-22T19:26:29 < zlog> Steffann: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-02-22.html
2012-02-22T19:29:40 < dongs> post-loltem.
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2012-02-22T19:39:31 < zippe> Steffann: SED = smoke emitting diode, LER = light emitting resistor
2012-02-22T19:39:40 <+Steffann> hmf :P
2012-02-22T19:40:44 < Thorn> there're also integrated fuses
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2012-02-22T19:58:30 < Thorn> when you have trace segments with different width in diptrace they join in an ugly way
2012-02-22T20:02:19 < Thorn> and it's written in delphi
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2012-02-22T20:20:41 < Thorn> also I want it to calculate trace resistance on the fly, and use that for DRC
2012-02-22T20:28:28 <+Steffann> Delphi isn't that bad Thorn btw ..
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2012-02-22T21:43:19 < Thorn> http://i.imgur.com/rktqc.jpg
2012-02-22T21:45:12 < jpa-> that's one big coil you have going around the board.. and i'm not so sure if a polygon fill will fix it either
2012-02-22T21:45:44 < Thorn> power trace?
2012-02-22T21:45:50 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-22T21:46:06 < jpa-> you might atleast want to make it a whole loop
2012-02-22T21:46:24 < Thorn> heah on the bottom I have one (3.3V)
2012-02-22T21:46:36 < Thorn> I'll try to do the same on the top for 5V
2012-02-22T21:46:44 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-22T21:47:54 < jpa-> what are the two wide chips on the right side of the board, next to the push buttons?
2012-02-22T21:48:27 < Thorn> 7 segment indicators (what's the correct refdes for them?)
2012-02-22T21:48:51 < jpa-> ok :) (and i don't know :)
2012-02-22T21:48:59 < Thorn> both sides will be ground poured btw
2012-02-22T21:49:18 < jpa-> yeah :)
2012-02-22T21:49:45 < jpa-> what's the deal with R25-R34? high-power?
2012-02-22T21:50:22 < Thorn> no, it's a Dave Jones 0.1R resistor lol
2012-02-22T21:50:33 < Thorn> I'm looking for a proper 0.1R one
2012-02-22T21:50:58 < Thorn> it's for a current sense amp not yet placed
2012-02-22T21:51:08 < jpa-> oh, shouldn't be too hard to find
2012-02-22T21:51:12 < Thorn> and I'm still considering a dc/dc
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2012-02-22T21:53:18 < Thorn> I have a feeling all this could be routed much simpler (and with less area)
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2012-02-22T21:55:16 < jpa-> not by much in 2 layers
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2012-02-22T21:56:24 < Thorn> traces going from the mcu take a lot of area
2012-02-22T21:57:02 <+Steffanx> Hmpf, what's that cm3 toolchain called? Yaragato or .. i can't remember the name :(
2012-02-22T21:57:11 < Thorn> yagarto
2012-02-22T21:57:21 < Thorn> yet another gnu arm toolchain
2012-02-22T21:57:21 <+Steffanx> Ah, yeah :)
2012-02-22T21:57:47 < Thorn> not sure if it supports hardware fp
2012-02-22T21:59:30 <+Steffanx> Which one does? (I know the Sourcery Lite does)
2012-02-22T21:59:41 < Thorn> I also need to place a Vdda filter (2 caps + inductor or a ldo?) somewhere, do a backup power circuit for the rtc and try to do something with remaining pins. oh, and power/protection
2012-02-22T22:00:05 < Thorn> that's the one that certainly does
2012-02-22T22:00:47 < Laurenceb_> can anyone here help with some DSP?
2012-02-22T22:01:08 < Laurenceb_> im trying to make a basic "spectrometer" using a load of leds and a photodiode
2012-02-22T22:01:25 < Laurenceb_> leds off pwm on stm32, and photodiode into adc
2012-02-22T22:01:51 < Laurenceb_> then my plan was to use a OFDM type technique to separate the different leds
2012-02-22T22:01:59 < Laurenceb_> but its not working :(
2012-02-22T22:02:05 < jpa-> hm
2012-02-22T22:02:24 < jpa-> so are you measuring trough a liquid sample?
2012-02-22T22:02:35 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-22T22:03:02 < Laurenceb_> my issue is that i used different timer reload values
2012-02-22T22:03:04 < jpa-> stupid question: why not just 1 led at a time :)
2012-02-22T22:04:01 < Laurenceb_> slower, noisier, more vulnerable to lcd monitors etc
2012-02-22T22:04:14 < Thorn> 6929mm of traces and 122 vias so far (what's a "reasonable" number of vias for a 100x100mm board?)
2012-02-22T22:04:28 < Laurenceb_> if you work it out you will see you cant get orthogonal frequencies using pwm
2012-02-22T22:04:34 < Laurenceb_> Thorn: many more than that
2012-02-22T22:04:46 < Laurenceb_> i thought this wouldnt be an issue
2012-02-22T22:05:06 < Laurenceb_> it would just mean i get <1% crosstalk between channels, which is ok for my application
2012-02-22T22:05:14 < jpa-> are you aiming for orthogonal sine waves to the leds? i would think that orthogonal square waves could be enough
2012-02-22T22:05:30 < Laurenceb_> but i also see oscillating crosstalk between channels
2012-02-22T22:05:35 < Laurenceb_> which is really bad
2012-02-22T22:05:53 < Laurenceb_> i use square waves around 11.905KHz
2012-02-22T22:06:03 < Laurenceb_> with ~62hz offset between channels
2012-02-22T22:06:21 < Laurenceb_> then a very tight opamp bandpass filter on the input around 11.905khz
2012-02-22T22:07:01 < Laurenceb_> i spent ages faffing with sinusoids trying to work out what the issue was
2012-02-22T22:07:05 < Laurenceb_> now i think i know
2012-02-22T22:07:27 < Laurenceb_> the adc makes descrete samples, its not sampling 100% of the time
2012-02-22T22:07:40 < Laurenceb_> and there is iterference into the ADC from the PWM
2012-02-22T22:07:54 < Laurenceb_> this causes distortion of the sin wave
2012-02-22T22:08:14 < Laurenceb_> sometimes the adc sampling misses the worse distortion, sometimes not
2012-02-22T22:08:22 < Laurenceb_> this causes the oscillating crosstalk
2012-02-22T22:08:28 < Laurenceb_> my question is, how to avoid it?
2012-02-22T22:08:58 < jpa-> sync the adc sampling to the pwm frequency (with x samples per pwm period)?
2012-02-22T22:09:08 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats what ive done atm
2012-02-22T22:09:18 < Laurenceb_> it works well, but i can only drive one led at a time
2012-02-22T22:10:06 < Laurenceb_> which is useless, i need simultaneous multiwavelenght absorption with a few tens of hz bandwidth
2012-02-22T22:10:20 < jpa-> could you instead of hardware pwm, just use DMA to transfer values from a constant array to the GPIO ODR?
2012-02-22T22:10:37 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-02-22T22:10:45 < Laurenceb_> yeah but my boards are made now :P
2012-02-22T22:10:54 < jpa-> does that matter? :)
2012-02-22T22:10:59 < Laurenceb_> i was thinking, atm i use quadrature sampling
2012-02-22T22:11:35 < Laurenceb_> if i sampled a lot faster and use DFT
2012-02-22T22:12:37 < Laurenceb_> but that uses a lot of cpu :(
2012-02-22T22:12:48 < Laurenceb_> this is battery powered and the leds use ~1ma
2012-02-22T22:13:35 < jpa-> but does your board have something that stops you from using DMA -> GPIO ODR now? and get around the problem by everything being in sync?
2012-02-22T22:13:55 < Laurenceb_> oh i get you now
2012-02-22T22:14:11 < Laurenceb_> thats clever, then you avoid the timers having variable phase lag
2012-02-22T22:14:18 < Laurenceb_> which is what is causing my issues
2012-02-22T22:14:22 < Laurenceb_> nice plan
2012-02-22T22:14:47 < jpa-> it's nice if it works :P
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2012-02-22T22:17:51 < Laurenceb_> ok i just had another idea
2012-02-22T22:18:16 < Laurenceb_> still use quadrature sampling, but arrange the timer pwm to be offset in frequency by 100hz or so
2012-02-22T22:18:51 < Laurenceb_> then do quadrature downconversion and decimating to a few hundered samples per sec
2012-02-22T22:19:03 < Laurenceb_> and do DFT at that new sample rate to isolate the leds
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2012-02-22T22:21:04 < jpa-> how does the DFT remove the interference? isn't the noise likely to be quite wide-band?
2012-02-22T22:21:16 < Laurenceb_> the crosstalk isnt
2012-02-22T22:21:31 < Laurenceb_> thats my issue
2012-02-22T22:21:42 < jpa-> hmm yeah, so the crosstalk is low frequency?
2012-02-22T22:21:47 < Laurenceb_> noise isnt a big problem, hence why i can turn led brightness right down
2012-02-22T22:21:49 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-22T22:22:01 < Laurenceb_> atm its at 1.6hz
2012-02-22T22:22:03 < jpa-> (yeah i meant the crosstalk by the noise)
2012-02-22T22:22:13 < Laurenceb_> on each channels from all the others
2012-02-22T22:22:28 < Laurenceb_> the other issue is LCD monitors and flourescent lights
2012-02-22T22:22:46 < Laurenceb_> thats why ~12khz was chosen, its above most of that noise
2012-02-22T22:23:30 < jpa-> so a simple high-pass filter in software could help?
2012-02-22T22:23:43 < Laurenceb_> not exactly, i need DC
2012-02-22T22:24:07 < jpa-> well band-block then
2012-02-22T22:24:08 < Laurenceb_> what i think i will do is move the channels away from phase quadrature sampling
2012-02-22T22:24:30 < Laurenceb_> so this mill move the crosstalk up to high frequencies
2012-02-22T22:24:50 < Laurenceb_> then i can grab each channel using DFT and low pass filter it to ~30Hz bandwidth
2012-02-22T22:25:48 < Laurenceb_> atm my middle channel is band on quadrature (i.e. sample rate/4) and other channels are above or below it with ~62Hz offsets
2012-02-22T22:26:00 < Laurenceb_> s/band/right
2012-02-22T22:26:13 < jpa-> btw why do you need DC in the input signal?
2012-02-22T22:26:42 < Laurenceb_> i dont exacly
2012-02-22T22:26:50 < Laurenceb_> i need down to ~0.05Hz
2012-02-22T22:27:06 < Laurenceb_> for doing chemical analysis
2012-02-22T22:27:31 < jpa-> well why do you need even that, because the high-pass filtering on the input shouldn't affect whatever signal you extract from the ~12kHz band
2012-02-22T22:27:38 < Laurenceb_> -different fluid injected
2012-02-22T22:28:02 < Laurenceb_> sorry
2012-02-22T22:28:17 < jpa-> ah yeah, i see where i was unclear :)
2012-02-22T22:28:17 < Laurenceb_> 0.05Hz in the absorption vrs time output
2012-02-22T22:28:33 < Laurenceb_> im talking about demodulator output bandwidth
2012-02-22T22:28:43 < jpa-> i meant software high-pass directly on the ADC signal, because isn't the interference at much less than 12kHz there?
2012-02-22T22:28:43 < Laurenceb_> that needs to be ~0.05 to 30hz
2012-02-22T22:28:51 < Laurenceb_> no
2012-02-22T22:29:02 < Laurenceb_> its around 12khz
2012-02-22T22:29:14 < Laurenceb_> its between channels
2012-02-22T22:29:19 < Laurenceb_> on the pcb and stm32
2012-02-22T22:29:24 < jpa-> hmm
2012-02-22T22:29:38 < jpa-> oh yeah
2012-02-22T22:29:53 < jpa-> sorry, confused the pulsing rate of the interference and the interference itself
2012-02-22T22:30:21 < Laurenceb_> some of its at high harmonics of 12khz
2012-02-22T22:30:35 < Laurenceb_> ive tried to filter that out but theres a limit to how well i can
2012-02-22T22:30:51 < Laurenceb_> with the analogue front end
2012-02-22T22:31:42 < jpa-> if you move the modulation away from the quadrature, won't that mess up the opamp filter you have? though moving the quadrature away from the modulation may work :)
2012-02-22T22:32:06 < Laurenceb_> oh thats the least of my issues right now
2012-02-22T22:32:14 < Laurenceb_> desolder wick and new resistors
2012-02-22T22:32:44 < jpa-> :)
2012-02-22T22:34:10 < jpa-> how many channels do you have btw?
2012-02-22T22:34:39 < Laurenceb_> atm only3
2012-02-22T22:35:01 < Laurenceb_> but i plan to get narrowband leds from thor labs to extend the range
2012-02-22T22:35:10 < jpa-> (and how come you have time to make progress on a software gps receiver and spectrometer all in one month o_O)
2012-02-22T22:35:20 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-02-22T22:35:25 < Laurenceb_> this is my PhD
2012-02-22T22:35:32 < Laurenceb_> SDR GPS is hobby
2012-02-22T22:36:01 < jpa-> zomg, all praise to doctor (to be) Laurenceb_ :)
2012-02-22T22:36:16 < Laurenceb_> heh thanks
2012-02-22T22:36:39 < Laurenceb_> year to go still :P
2012-02-22T22:38:17 < Laurenceb_> i think i see it actually on the scope - with two output channels running but no led on the second channel the sinusoid input is a little triangular
2012-02-22T22:38:17 < jpa-> but sleepity sleep for me :)
2012-02-22T22:38:23 < Laurenceb_> cya
2012-02-22T22:38:31 <+Steffann> Uh?!
2012-02-22T22:38:32 < Thorn> night
2012-02-22T22:38:45 <+Steffann> jpa- feels sick?
2012-02-22T22:39:00 < jpa-> nope?
2012-02-22T22:39:30 <+Steffann> Yes?
2012-02-22T22:39:42 < jpa-> how so?
2012-02-22T22:39:58 <+Steffann> "sleepity sleep"
2012-02-22T22:40:35 < jpa-> ok, maybe i said something funny that i don't understand myself :)
2012-02-22T22:40:43 <+Steffann> I guess so
2012-02-22T22:40:50 < jpa-> not native dutch like you :P
2012-02-22T22:41:08 <+Steffann> Yes, finnish is worse
2012-02-22T22:47:46 <+Steffann> I guess this website is made for you jpa-
2012-02-22T22:47:46 <+Steffann> http://youknowyouredutchwhen.com/
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2012-02-23T13:12:50 < Laurenceb> i got flyback a badge
2012-02-23T13:12:52 < Laurenceb> http://www.autismunited.org/images/momsforautism.jpg
2012-02-23T13:14:44 <+Steffann> You have to say flyback- :P
2012-02-23T13:27:39 < ziph> Where did all the people in here come from?
2012-02-23T13:29:59 < Thorn> a secret ARM training camp in northern Africa
2012-02-23T13:30:34 < ziph> Didn't that one get destroyed by cruise missile?
2012-02-23T13:31:30 < Thorn> no, it suffered an INVSTATE fault while in flight
2012-02-23T13:31:44 < ziph> Ah, the old inside job trick.
2012-02-23T13:32:33 < Thorn> and conveniently landed on an Atmel facility nearby
2012-02-23T13:33:00 <+Steffann> I come from my mother and father ziph
2012-02-23T13:33:12 <+Steffann> No more details
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2012-02-23T14:30:26 < Thorn> zomg they created ##electronics-offtopic
2012-02-23T14:31:06 < ziph> I assume it has just doubled the amount of crap rather than reducing the quantity in electronics? :)
2012-02-23T14:32:27 < Thorn> let's wait and see
2012-02-23T14:32:46 < dongs> that'd be almost as empty as ##stm32-without-jews
2012-02-23T14:33:44 < Thorn> not much traffic != empty, it's probably a good thing actually
2012-02-23T14:34:16 < ziph> Are you implying I wear funny hats?
2012-02-23T14:34:34 < ziph> Last time I was in electronics it was all off topic.
2012-02-23T14:34:37 < Tom_itx> it's that or the shape of your head
2012-02-23T14:35:20 < Tom_itx> don't try to sell me on electronics as a wonderful place to be now
2012-02-23T14:36:46 < zyp> any irc channel that doesn't go off topic is a boring irc channel
2012-02-23T14:37:21 < Tom_itx> but if it lives there?
2012-02-23T14:37:56 < ziph> It's just a wasteland though.
2012-02-23T14:38:36 < ziph> #avr has a fairly good balance until someone mentions Linux.
2012-02-23T14:38:54 < Tom_itx> or jan shows up
2012-02-23T14:39:42 < Laurenceb> wow a girl
2012-02-23T14:39:55 < ziph> That's the spirit.
2012-02-23T14:39:56 < zyp> I think this laptop got a «reheat coffee» function
2012-02-23T14:40:00 < ziph> ;)
2012-02-23T14:40:31 < zyp> just a shame I don't drink coffee
2012-02-23T14:41:09 < ziph> Anyone written a GDB stub for an M3?
2012-02-23T14:42:42 < dongs> whats with all the z-starting people here
2012-02-23T14:42:48 < dongs> zippe, ziph, zyp
2012-02-23T14:42:53 -!- ziph is now known as iph
2012-02-23T14:42:56 < iph> That better? :)
2012-02-23T14:43:32 < Laurenceb> Zeitgeist
2012-02-23T14:43:35 -!- urief [~eruif@unaffiliated/eruif] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2012-02-23T14:43:36 -!- iph is now known as ziph
2012-02-23T14:43:50 < ziph> Pft, I've used this nick on IRC since '95 or something.
2012-02-23T14:44:03 < Laurenceb> old school
2012-02-23T14:44:27 < Laurenceb> i was at primary school then
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2012-02-23T14:45:14 < Laurenceb> people are going to start talking about eternal September soon
2012-02-23T14:45:26 < ziph> What's that?
2012-02-23T14:45:31 < Tom_itx> Steffann
2012-02-23T14:45:59 < Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
2012-02-23T14:46:03 < Tom_itx> http://www.siwawi.arubi.uni-kl.de/avr_projects/arm_projects/arm_memcards/
2012-02-23T14:46:27 < ziph> Oh, that one.
2012-02-23T14:46:46 < ziph> I think the Usenet groups I used were too obscure and technical to notice that.
2012-02-23T14:47:55 < ziph> Don't the STM's have SD Card controllers on-die?
2012-02-23T14:48:18 < Tom_itx> not the fat
2012-02-23T14:48:27 < Thorn> f103 has SDIO
2012-02-23T14:48:56 < dongs> i used sdio+fatfs
2012-02-23T14:48:58 < dongs> works fine.
2012-02-23T14:49:06 < dongs> like 20meg/sec to some crappy sd card from F4.
2012-02-23T14:49:15 < Thorn> but not 105 or 107 for some reason
2012-02-23T14:49:28 < Thorn> f2 and f4 all have sdio I think
2012-02-23T14:49:50 < ziph> Yeah, the F4 was the one I've looked at.
2012-02-23T14:50:10 < ziph> I use NXP's at the moment because the typography in their manuals is better.
2012-02-23T14:50:22 < ziph> And because I've already written a USB stack for them.
2012-02-23T14:50:26 < ziph> But mainly the typography.
2012-02-23T14:50:57 < zyp> USB stack for NXPs?
2012-02-23T14:51:01 < Thorn> NXP has real EMC (but you can't find the parts that have it)
2012-02-23T14:51:08 < ziph> Yeah.
2012-02-23T14:51:15 < ziph> LPC17xx's
2012-02-23T14:51:26 < zyp> what USB IP do NXP use?
2012-02-23T14:51:49 < dongs> probably their own, they have a number of hubs/phys/etc shit that theyve had for years
2012-02-23T14:52:03 < ziph> Yeah, they didn't bring one in like the F4's as far as I can tell.
2012-02-23T14:52:18 < ziph> Also the F4's at least have too few endpoints.
2012-02-23T14:52:28 < zyp> F4 use synopsys stuff for USB
2012-02-23T14:52:36 < ziph> Yeap.
2012-02-23T14:52:53 < ziph> The Low/Full USB only supports 3 in and 3 out (plus the control) endpoints.
2012-02-23T14:53:19 < Thorn> f1 supports 15 or 16 endpoints I think
2012-02-23T14:53:29 < ziph> Which won't even let you do proper dual serial ports.
2012-02-23T14:54:02 < Thorn> now that's crappy, why did they do that
2012-02-23T14:54:14 < ziph> Beats me.
2012-02-23T14:54:22 < Laurenceb> silicon area maybe
2012-02-23T14:54:22 < ziph> They've got enough FIFO RAM for more.
2012-02-23T14:54:36 < ziph> LPC's have 32 endpoints.
2012-02-23T16:17:31 < Laurenceb> anyone here used 	SysTick_Config();
2012-02-23T16:17:48 < Laurenceb> im getting SysTick interrupts way too many times
2012-02-23T16:18:00 < Laurenceb> its called with the reload value right?
2012-02-23T16:19:37 < Laurenceb> wait... exactly 10 times too fast
2012-02-23T16:19:41  * Laurenceb hunts for typos
2012-02-23T16:28:28 < Laurenceb> 	RCC_HCLKConfig(RCC_SYSCLK_Div1);			//CLK the periferal
2012-02-23T16:28:28 < Laurenceb> 	SysTick_CLKSourceConfig(SysTick_CLKSource_HCLK_Div8);	//SYSTICK AHB1/8
2012-02-23T16:28:28 < Laurenceb> wut
2012-02-23T16:29:05 <+Steffann> ?
2012-02-23T16:29:28  * Tom_itx gives Steffann an x
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2012-02-23T16:31:13 < Laurenceb> why two clk configs?
2012-02-23T16:31:23 < Laurenceb> first one gates the peripheral?
2012-02-23T16:38:02 < Laurenceb> wtf
2012-02-23T16:38:13 < Laurenceb> sysclk is clocked 8 times too fast
2012-02-23T16:41:25 < zyp> are you doing stuff wrong again?
2012-02-23T16:41:56 < Laurenceb> lol
2012-02-23T16:42:23 < Laurenceb> 72000000/8=9000000
2012-02-23T16:42:32 < Laurenceb> 9000000/90000=100
2012-02-23T16:42:37 < Laurenceb> i see 800hz
2012-02-23T16:43:30 < Thorn> I finally sold my dslr which I haven't used for like 4 years so now there's no reason not to buy a scope
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2012-02-23T16:50:34 < Laurenceb> wtf
2012-02-23T16:50:52 < Laurenceb> where is system timer documented?
2012-02-23T16:51:26 < zyp> in the M3 reference
2012-02-23T16:51:39 < zyp> it's part of the M3 core
2012-02-23T16:52:12 < zyp> (or M4 if we're talking F4, obviously)
2012-02-23T16:54:47 < Laurenceb> wtf
2012-02-23T16:54:59 < Laurenceb> M3 ref manual says theres no div8 option
2012-02-23T16:55:36 < Laurenceb> the "div8" bit that st periph lib is setting switches it to RTC
2012-02-23T16:55:43 < Laurenceb> wth ST
2012-02-23T16:58:38 <+Steffanx> pebkac :P
2012-02-23T16:59:13 < Laurenceb> hmm
2012-02-23T16:59:25 < Laurenceb> no
2012-02-23T16:59:45 < Laurenceb> apparently its up tot he vendor to provide an alternative clk inut
2012-02-23T16:59:58 < Laurenceb> "If no reference clock is provided, it is held at 1 and so gives the same time as the core clock
2012-02-23T16:59:58 < Laurenceb> "
2012-02-23T17:00:04 < Laurenceb> thats what i see
2012-02-23T17:00:19 < Laurenceb> looks like someone screwed up at ST
2012-02-23T17:00:42 < Laurenceb> page 153 of M3 ref manual
2012-02-23T17:01:03 < Laurenceb> bit2 doesnt do anything for me
2012-02-23T17:04:12 <+Steffanx> I never read the m3 reference manual ..
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2012-02-23T17:45:32 < jpa-> i don't always read a reference manual, but when i do, i read the STM32F1xx Cortex-M3 programmin manual
2012-02-23T17:46:22 <+Steffanx> I never read the programming manual, I only read the datasheet and reference manual of the stm32Fxxx :)
2012-02-23T17:46:55 <+Steffanx> The programming manual is pretty useless imho jpa- :P
2012-02-23T17:47:11 < jpa-> well it tells why i'm getting hardfaults
2012-02-23T17:47:23 <+Steffanx> Except the memory part
2012-02-23T17:47:58 <+Steffanx> Sure that's the programming manual?
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2012-02-23T17:48:12 < jpa-> yeah it is
2012-02-23T17:48:19 < jpa-> the thing that i have renamed to stm32_core.pdf
2012-02-23T17:48:31 <+Steffanx> Hmm ok :P
2012-02-23T17:49:01 <+Steffanx> All I read in something called 'programming manual' is flash related
2012-02-23T17:50:01 < jpa-> PM0056 that is
2012-02-23T17:51:26 <+Steffanx> Oh, !@#$ ST with their fancy naming
2012-02-23T17:51:53 < jpa-> i'm hungry :/
2012-02-23T17:52:04 <+Steffanx> Get some food
2012-02-23T17:52:14 < jpa-> i'd have to cook it
2012-02-23T17:52:24 < Laurenceb> ignore me ive fixed it
2012-02-23T17:52:30 <+Steffanx> Explain Laurenceb
2012-02-23T17:52:35 < Laurenceb> the register was being overwritten
2012-02-23T17:52:43 < Laurenceb> later in the codez
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2012-02-23T17:53:05 <+Steffanx> Order some pizza jpa-
2012-02-23T17:53:20 < jpa-> Steffanx: for some reason, i don't eat ready-made food
2012-02-23T17:53:23 < jpa-> (often)
2012-02-23T17:53:38 < jpa-> i guess it may have something to do with it being expensive
2012-02-23T17:53:55 <+Steffanx> me neither
2012-02-23T17:55:27 < jpa-> i could make a) vegetable soup and bread rolls or b) something out of minced meat
2012-02-23T17:55:36 < jpa-> but all that would require getting out of bed
2012-02-23T18:23:33 < Laurenceb> see this is why people eat their own food
2012-02-23T18:23:41 < Laurenceb> they have time to do it
2012-02-23T18:24:12 < Laurenceb> whenever i go to my mums house i end up helping to cook all day :(
2012-02-23T18:26:01 <+Steffanx> Poooor you
2012-02-23T18:26:33 < Laurenceb> why if i have a terminal window in a mass storage device and remove and reattach the device do i have to cd../ cd $folder
2012-02-23T18:29:46 < Laurenceb> lol@ only 1 girl masters student
2012-02-23T18:30:01 < Laurenceb> and loads of guys offering to help her with work
2012-02-23T18:30:35 < jpa-> there is something funny in *nix about open directories, but i can't remember what :)
2012-02-23T18:30:44 < Laurenceb> i see
2012-02-23T18:30:46 -!- sunilg [~chatzilla@117.195.5.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2012-02-23T18:31:24 < Laurenceb> hehe 3 guys helping her
2012-02-23T18:31:39 < Laurenceb> if it was a guy they'd be telling him to piss off
2012-02-23T18:32:02 < jpa-> the same thing happens if you do  mkdir foobar; cd foobar; rmdir ../foobar; mkdir ../foobar; touch ../foobar/foo  and if you ls the file is not visible because you are in the wrong folder with the same name :)
2012-02-23T18:32:24 < Laurenceb> ah i see
2012-02-23T18:33:19 < Thorn> linux doesn't delete open files until they're closed, maybe it's the same thing (or similar)
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2012-02-23T18:34:13 < jpa-> probably.. i think i read somewhere that at some level, directories are a lot like files on *nix
2012-02-23T18:34:36 < jpa-> Laurenceb: is your spectrometer oscillating yet? :)
2012-02-23T18:34:58 < Laurenceb> im working on data download and stuff
2012-02-23T18:35:08 < Laurenceb> works nicely with one led at a time
2012-02-23T18:35:38 < jpa-> so you just need 3 boards to do it ,)
2012-02-23T18:35:43 < Thorn> files (and directories) in linux are identified by inodes not by names, maybe it's somehow generating random ones for foreign filesystems
2012-02-23T18:36:12 < jpa-> Thorn: inodes are not unique across filesystems, so it has to be a filesystem,inode combo somehow
2012-02-23T18:37:04 < jpa-> and usually you can't unmount a filesystem if there is something open on it, but on the other hand pulling the plug doesn't leave much choice for the OS
2012-02-23T18:37:22 < Laurenceb> heh
2012-02-23T18:37:26 < Laurenceb> thats what im doing
2012-02-23T18:39:41 < jpa-> hmm i just got some spam from "Laurence Herman". is that you?
2012-02-23T18:44:43 < Laurenceb> nope :P
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2012-02-23T19:37:07 < Laurenceb> interesting
2012-02-23T19:37:15 < Laurenceb> seems reset doesnt reset RTC
2012-02-23T19:37:27 < Laurenceb> my board has now been running for over a week XD
2012-02-23T19:37:56 < ziph> It wouldn't be much of an RTC if it went off every time you turned main power off, would it? :)
2012-02-23T19:39:44 < Laurenceb> yeah but i though reset reset _everything_
2012-02-23T19:40:19 < ziph> It doesn't have to.
2012-02-23T19:40:29 < ziph> And there are actually multiple resets internally in the chip.
2012-02-23T19:41:37 < Laurenceb> bbl
2012-02-23T19:41:40 <+Steffanx> Uhm, you talk about the RTC of the stm32fxxx?
2012-02-23T19:41:53 < ziph> They would have to put in a separate reset for the RTC too.
2012-02-23T19:42:07 < ziph> (Internally)
2012-02-23T19:42:43 <+Steffanx> Doesn't it use the vbat to power the RTC when 'mains' if gone?
2012-02-23T19:43:15 < ziph> Yeah, but if you were running it on the normal reset network the brownout detector would kill it.
2012-02-23T19:43:20 < ziph> Defeating the purpose of having it.
2012-02-23T19:43:46 <+Steffanx> Yeah, ofcourse
2012-02-23T19:44:26 < ziph> Laurenceb: RTC's historically were separate IC's with their own battery.
2012-02-23T19:44:36 < ziph> Laurenceb: So the entire board could go dead and the RTC would keep running.
2012-02-23T19:44:47 < ziph> Laurenceb: And RESET gets asserted every time you power up the board.
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2012-02-23T23:56:55 < Thorn> lpc43xx looks very allurnig (and significantly cheaper than stm32f4 from one supplier, not sure about availability)
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2012-02-24T00:13:15 < zyp> really? how cheap is it?
2012-02-24T00:14:46 < Thorn> $14.6 and $16
2012-02-24T00:15:07 < Thorn> for 4330 and 4350 resp in lqfp
2012-02-24T00:16:29 < Thorn> same supplier has f407ve for $8.4 but other f4 chips are much more expensive
2012-02-24T00:17:16 < zyp> doesn't sound significantly cheaper to me
2012-02-24T00:17:46 < zyp> I don't remember what I paid for my F4s, but it was around $14-16 I think
2012-02-24T00:19:30 < Thorn> in digikey lpc43 range from $9.38 to 12.32, while stm32f4 are $11.89...23.47
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2012-02-24T03:04:08 < dongs> < Thorn> lpc43xx looks very allurnig (and significantly cheaper than stm32f4 from one supplier, not sure about availability)
2012-02-24T03:04:27 < dongs> STM32F405RGT6 $6.39
2012-02-24T03:04:28 < dongs> STM32F407VET6 $5.30
2012-02-24T03:04:29 < dongs> ???
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2012-02-24T03:05:26 < Thorn> where
2012-02-24T03:06:45 < dongs> if youre just buying one it doesnt matter. some current project im working on for work-stuff uses them and thats our buy price.
2012-02-24T03:07:31 < Thorn> well I was talking single units
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2012-02-24T13:23:52 < dongs> flyback: throw them in the fucking garbage.
2012-02-24T13:48:36 <+Steffanx> Garbage doesn't fuck dongs
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2012-02-24T22:02:59 < Laurenceb_> sup
2012-02-24T22:03:09 < jpa-> hi
2012-02-24T22:03:10 < Laurenceb_> does anyone have examples of syncing adc to a timer?
2012-02-24T22:03:23 < Laurenceb_> i was to sample on timer4 overflow
2012-02-24T22:05:22 < jpa-> it's quite simple but unfortunately i don't have an example :)
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2012-02-25T00:01:18 < TitanMKD> hi
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2012-02-25T09:24:17 < dongs> ?
2012-02-25T09:25:07 < dongs> flyback have you acutally done anything with stm32 beisdes blinking leds on the evalboard using Demo_Blinky
2012-02-25T09:33:35 < ziph> Do the STM F4's have self programming for the flash?
2012-02-25T09:36:13 < zippe> ziph: Have you read the ST documentation?
2012-02-25T09:36:28 < ziph> I couldn't find any references to it.
2012-02-25T09:36:43 < ziph> But then I don't know what weird acronym STM likes to give it.
2012-02-25T09:37:13 < zippe> Well, if I knew what you were asking about, it might help
2012-02-25T09:37:24 < zippe> But there are a heap of appnotes and references on various flash programming subjects
2012-02-25T09:38:04 < ziph> Are you talking about in general?
2012-02-25T09:44:02 < zippe> ziph: What do you mean by "self programming"?
2012-02-25T09:47:15 < zippe> I'm at a loss for a definition that isn't answered by their appnotes or the reference guide
2012-02-25T10:09:53 <+izua> self programming - using flash memory as eeprom, i guess
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2012-02-25T10:34:20 < jpa-> ziph: yes, they can program their own flash programmatically
2012-02-25T10:34:28 < jpa-> as evidenced by the many bootloaders
2012-02-25T10:35:07 < ziph> jpa-: The full reference manual lacks any mention of it, though. I had to dig up another manual that's specifically for it.
2012-02-25T10:36:29 < jpa-> yeah, PM0081
2012-02-25T10:36:49 < jpa-> btw, the full reference manual has a "Related documents" list on the front page; that is sometimes helpful
2012-02-25T10:38:00 < ziph> Yeap, that's the one.
2012-02-25T10:47:26 < ziph> Anyone happen to use CrossWorks and know where to find the CPSR/I bit? xPSR has the other status bits but not I.
2012-02-25T10:53:36 < ziph> Oh, CPSIE just messes with PRIMASK.
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2012-02-25T11:43:40 < ziph> Ok, that was a nasty, nasty bug.
2012-02-25T11:43:53 <+Steffanx> Yes
2012-02-25T11:44:20 < ziph> ctl_global_interrupts_set in CrossWorks CTL disabled interrupts using BASEPRI instead of PRIMASK.
2012-02-25T11:44:20 <+Steffanx> Try some extra salt and pepper next time
2012-02-25T11:44:54 < ziph> For some reason the IAP self programming routines on the LPC1769 resets BASEPRI to 0.
2012-02-25T11:45:20 < ziph> So interrupts would've been firing while the flash controller/accelerator were busy handling writes to the flash.
2012-02-25T11:45:27 < ziph> Interrupts for code on the flash.
2012-02-25T11:45:54 < ziph> And when it happens you end up branching to 0xfffffffe.
2012-02-25T11:47:12 < ziph> If the F4's didn't have so few USB endpoints I'd dump this LPC right now for one.
2012-02-25T11:52:00 <+Steffanx> And the typography of the datasheet … ? :P
2012-02-25T12:00:32 < dongs> heh
2012-02-25T12:01:14 < dongs> stm32's flash programming shit is in the 'programming manual'
2012-02-25T12:01:20 < dongs> which is for some weird reason separate from reference manual.
2012-02-25T12:02:10 <+Steffanx> You'll get used to it :P
2012-02-25T12:08:17 < ziph> Steffanx: That too.
2012-02-25T12:10:53 < Thorn> we should dump off the shelf micricintrollers altogether and start working on our own FPGA Core with Zero Bugs(tm)
2012-02-25T12:12:01 < Thorn> eh, *microcontrollers
2012-02-25T12:12:45 <+Steffanx> We'll call them micricintrollers
2012-02-25T12:12:45 < ziph> Good luck getting an FPGA CPU working at 100MHz. :)
2012-02-25T12:15:23 < Thorn> okay, you do the verilog, I'll register the trademark.
2012-02-25T12:17:59 < Thorn> so, I'm ready to pull the plug^Wtrigger
2012-02-25T12:18:17 < Thorn> ds1102e or ds1052e?
2012-02-25T12:18:18 <+Steffanx> ^W .. ?
2012-02-25T12:18:38 < ziph> Agilent X-Series.
2012-02-25T12:18:38 < Thorn> ^W = delete word in emacs iirc
2012-02-25T12:18:43 <+Steffanx> Oh
2012-02-25T12:18:47 <+Steffanx> ziph  goes expensive
2012-02-25T12:18:53 < ziph> :)
2012-02-25T12:19:04 < ziph> They start at $1k :)
2012-02-25T12:19:15 <+Steffanx> Expensive for hobby bobby work...
2012-02-25T12:21:06 < Thorn> how many MHz can you get for $1K?
2012-02-25T12:21:47 < ziph> 70MHz.
2012-02-25T12:21:52 < ziph> The 100MHz is slightly more.
2012-02-25T12:22:25 < Thorn> but they're still rigols, aren't they?
2012-02-25T12:22:32 < ziph> Nooo.
2012-02-25T12:22:35 <+Steffanx> $lightly a$$ in 50%?
2012-02-25T12:22:41 < ziph> They're very different; the refresh rates are massive.
2012-02-25T12:25:14 < ziph> 50,000 waveforms a second.
2012-02-25T12:25:21 < Thorn> dsox2012a is $1,494.00, that's a little more than ds1102e (about 3 times)
2012-02-25T12:25:26 < ziph> 1,000,000 on the 3000 series.
2012-02-25T12:28:03 < ziph> They're software upgradable too.
2012-02-25T12:28:13 < ziph> So if you buy the poverty pack model you can upgrade it later.
2012-02-25T12:28:25 < ziph> Up to 500MHz on the 3000 series.
2012-02-25T12:30:54 < Thorn> well. if I ever become a successful electronics designer I'll absolutely consider them.
2012-02-25T12:32:16 <+Steffanx> Hehe
2012-02-25T12:33:06 < Thorn> those prices are really reasonable (for pro equipment I mean)
2012-02-25T12:34:55 < Thorn> btw some people on eevblog say that ds****e rigols may actually be hardware limited at 170MHz
2012-02-25T12:35:17 < Thorn> though to my knowledge nobody tried to actually exploit that
2012-02-25T12:42:14 < dongs> ill stick to my dspo4034
2012-02-25T12:42:18 < dongs> re dpo4034
2012-02-25T12:49:28 < Thorn> out of curiosity (I've no DSO experience), what does something like dsox2012a offer that ds1102e doesn't? (not considering non-essential features like spi triggering etc)
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2012-02-25T15:54:08 < dongs> ive got a old F2 board that i dont really feel like tracking schematic etc down for, can I just drop in F4 without any changes
2012-02-25T15:54:14 < dongs> or will it fail
2012-02-25T15:55:10 < jpa-> if pinouts match, there is a good chance that it will work
2012-02-25T15:55:28 < jpa-> (of course, software might not work :)
2012-02-25T15:55:49 < jpa-> (or rather, software will not work as the RCC config is different)
2012-02-25T15:56:27 <+Steffann> (probably)
2012-02-25T15:56:29 <+Steffann> (yes)
2012-02-25T15:56:49 <+Steffann> (ST advertises the F4 with that, don't they?)
2012-02-25T15:57:08 < jpa-> (well yeah, they make some claims about "being compatible through the series")
2012-02-25T15:57:24 <+Steffann> (yes F2<>F4 is part of that claim)
2012-02-25T16:00:16 < jpa-> (oh, yeah, i don't know much about F2.. i wonder if it is also software-compatible with F4?)
2012-02-25T16:00:23 < dongs> ugh fucking ST and their idiotic decision last year to wipe themselves off the internet with thier shitty website redesign
2012-02-25T16:00:33 <+Steffann> It has the same errata so probably
2012-02-25T16:01:01 <+Steffann> yes
2012-02-25T16:01:11 <+Steffann> dongs, dekar has a copy
2012-02-25T16:01:16 <+Steffann> dekar isn't here though
2012-02-25T16:01:17 <+Steffann> :P
2012-02-25T16:01:22 < dongs> of waht
2012-02-25T16:01:26 <+Steffann> the old st website
2012-02-25T16:01:37 < dongs> heh
2012-02-25T16:01:43 < dongs> found stm8 to stm32 migration notes
2012-02-25T16:01:50 < dongs> i *know* ive seen F2 to F4 shit before.
2012-02-25T16:01:52 < dongs> i think its same.
2012-02-25T16:02:01 < dongs> and this is already more time than I wanted to spend on this :(
2012-02-25T16:02:17 < dongs> 5 < jpa-> if pinouts match, there is a good chance that it will work
2012-02-25T16:02:17 < dongs> 22:55 < jpa-> (of course, software might not work :)
2012-02-25T16:02:19 < dongs> err
2012-02-25T16:02:25 < dongs> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/APPLICATION_NOTE/DM00024853.pdf maybe this
2012-02-25T16:02:42 < dongs> no, worthless.
2012-02-25T16:06:06 <+Steffann> "The STM32 F4 series remains pin-to-pin and software compatible with the STM32 F2 series and features more SRAM, peripheral improvements such as full duplex I²S, improved RTC and faster ADCs. " so
2012-02-25T16:06:07 <+Steffann> ...
2012-02-25T16:06:10 <+Steffann> software compatible :)
2012-02-25T16:06:28 < dongs> ok. to the oven it goes then.
2012-02-25T16:06:51 <+Steffann> but i think it still depends on which chip
2012-02-25T16:06:55 <+Steffann>  /serie
2012-02-25T16:14:10 < jpa-> yeah, it is quite easy to mess up software on different chips
2012-02-25T16:27:01 < Laurenceb_> arggg
2012-02-25T16:27:04  * Laurenceb_ confused
2012-02-25T16:27:28 <+Steffann> aaarghhh
2012-02-25T16:27:32 < Laurenceb_> i was to make an orthogonal frequency generator using pwm
2012-02-25T16:27:38 < Laurenceb_> i dont think its possible?
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2012-02-25T16:27:55 < Laurenceb_> i was f,f+x,f+2x.....f+n*x
2012-02-25T16:27:59 < Laurenceb_> frequencies
2012-02-25T16:28:10 < Laurenceb_> *want
2012-02-25T16:28:13 < dongs> you lost me around 'orthogonal' part
2012-02-25T16:28:25 < Laurenceb_> pwm is p,p+x,p+2x.....p+n*x
2012-02-25T16:28:28 < Laurenceb_> periods right?
2012-02-25T16:28:34 < Laurenceb_> so its not possible?
2012-02-25T16:28:58 < dongs> i dunno, im not paying attention. :)
2012-02-25T16:29:03 < Laurenceb_> but...
2012-02-25T16:29:18 < Laurenceb_> if f/x is large they tend towards being equivalent
2012-02-25T16:29:32 < Laurenceb_> but not quite the same thing
2012-02-25T16:30:02 < dongs> i i showed you my mag tilt code would you see what could be fucked with it potentially?
2012-02-25T16:30:08 <+Steffann> dongs, he is a physicist
2012-02-25T16:30:12 <+Steffann> That explains it
2012-02-25T16:30:50 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-02-25T16:31:08 < Laurenceb_> i think i need to fudge the timer values every so often
2012-02-25T16:31:26 < Laurenceb_> so i get frequencies with constant offsets
2012-02-25T16:31:55 < Laurenceb_> dongs: pastebin
2012-02-25T16:32:41 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/ohvDCk57.html
2012-02-25T16:34:21 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: pwm is the same period for all the channels AFAIK? so how would you generate the different frequencies?
2012-02-25T16:34:35 < dongs> jpa-: all channels of same timer yes
2012-02-25T16:34:49 < Laurenceb_> different timers
2012-02-25T16:34:52 < jpa-> ah, ok
2012-02-25T16:34:58 < Laurenceb_> i change the reload values
2012-02-25T16:35:16 < Laurenceb_> for my spectrometer thingy
2012-02-25T16:35:27 < jpa-> but what is the problem then? just calculate the p for the cpufreq/(f+x)
2012-02-25T16:35:55 < Laurenceb_> sure
2012-02-25T16:35:59 < jpa-> dongs: how does your code not work?
2012-02-25T16:36:05 < Laurenceb_> but if you do the math you find its not possible
2012-02-25T16:36:13 < Laurenceb_> as the reload values have to be integers
2012-02-25T16:36:22 < jpa-> ah, yeah
2012-02-25T16:36:26 < dongs> jpa-: im not sure. it fails upside down.
2012-02-25T16:36:32 < dongs> heading reverses.
2012-02-25T16:36:33 < Laurenceb_> its possible to have multiple periods with constant offsets
2012-02-25T16:36:40 < Laurenceb_> but not multiple frequencies
2012-02-25T16:36:55 < Laurenceb_> dongs: ok, so you just make a heading estimate?
2012-02-25T16:37:10 < Laurenceb_> and use that in some "Diydrones DCM" type code?
2012-02-25T16:37:22 < Laurenceb_> so line 21 is screwed?
2012-02-25T16:37:32 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: you could reset all the timers every superperiod so that they don't drift off too much
2012-02-25T16:37:36 < dongs> 21 is ghetto estimate
2012-02-25T16:37:42 < dongs> the code below is trying to tilt-compensate it
2012-02-25T16:38:04 < jpa-> i.e. reset them every least_common_multiple(p1, p2, p3)
2012-02-25T16:43:01 < Laurenceb_> jpa_: yeah thats my plan
2012-02-25T16:43:03 < Laurenceb_> brb
2012-02-25T16:43:30 < jpa-> "brb, executing my plan"
2012-02-25T16:43:45 < Laurenceb_> integrate and dump, doing DFT to extract the different led signals
2012-02-25T16:48:45 <+Steffann> led signals?
2012-02-25T16:50:30 < Laurenceb_> back
2012-02-25T16:50:43 < Laurenceb_> dongs: ok, so you cross product the accel with the magn field
2012-02-25T16:50:52 < Laurenceb_> then project that vector into the x,y plane
2012-02-25T16:51:15 < Laurenceb_> i think the problem is with using cross product
2012-02-25T16:51:38 < Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_product
2012-02-25T16:51:50 < Laurenceb_> the length has sin(theta) in it
2012-02-25T16:52:13 < Laurenceb_> i think when you are upside down the sin(theta) is negative so the vector points in the opposite direction
2012-02-25T16:53:07 < Laurenceb_> then a atan2 of the x,y projection has the wrong sign too
2012-02-25T16:53:20 < dongs> so is there an easy way to fix that?
2012-02-25T16:53:33 < Laurenceb_> so i think it need an if(upside_down) heading=-heading;
2012-02-25T16:53:56 < dongs> but what happens at like 89" tilt
2012-02-25T16:54:02 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-02-25T16:54:17 < dongs> or like 179" etc
2012-02-25T16:54:20 < Laurenceb_> isnt this a case of gimbal lock?
2012-02-25T16:54:20 < dongs> how do i tell "upside down?
2012-02-25T16:54:23 < dongs> probably
2012-02-25T16:54:30 < dongs> should I just stop using shit code and rape proper dcm somewhere?
2012-02-25T16:54:35 < Laurenceb_> i suspect this is the gymbal lock problem
2012-02-25T16:56:11 < Laurenceb_> hmmm
2012-02-25T16:56:20 < Laurenceb_> oh i know
2012-02-25T16:56:31 < Laurenceb_> technically the origional code is correct
2012-02-25T16:56:41 < Laurenceb_> the heading should reverse sign if you are upside down
2012-02-25T16:56:55 < dongs> but it looks dumb, it flips north/south etc type stuff
2012-02-25T16:56:59 < Laurenceb_> if you imagine you are inside the quadcopter, when you are upside down
2012-02-25T16:57:17 < Laurenceb_> you need to turn in the opposite direction
2012-02-25T16:57:19 < Laurenceb_> hmm yeah
2012-02-25T16:57:30 < dongs> if i twist it on roll axis
2012-02-25T16:57:33 < Laurenceb_> you want angle between frame x axis and true north
2012-02-25T16:57:41 < dongs> it will flip north/south once its upside down
2012-02-25T16:57:42 < Laurenceb_> openpilot GCS handles this correctly
2012-02-25T16:57:50 < Laurenceb_> but it uses quaternions
2012-02-25T16:57:55 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2012-02-25T16:59:58 < Laurenceb_> hang on... i solved this problem ages ago
2012-02-25T17:00:35 < Laurenceb_> so crossing magno with accel gives you a vector in world space that horizontal and a 90 degrees to magnetic north
2012-02-25T17:01:02 < Laurenceb_> you calculate what the vector is in "quadcopter axes"
2012-02-25T17:01:14 < Laurenceb_> by crossing the sensor values
2012-02-25T17:02:21 < Laurenceb_> if you cross the quadcopter or "body space" x axis with the magno x accel
2012-02-25T17:02:58 < Laurenceb_> and take the y axis component of that
2012-02-25T17:03:00 < Laurenceb_> no
2012-02-25T17:03:03 < Laurenceb_> x axis component
2012-02-25T17:03:07 < Laurenceb_> arggg
2012-02-25T17:03:09 < Laurenceb_> z axis
2012-02-25T17:03:28 < Laurenceb_> so z component of (1,0,0)xmagnoxaccel
2012-02-25T17:03:38 < Laurenceb_> where x denotes cross product
2012-02-25T17:06:22 < dongs> this is vectors?
2012-02-25T17:08:37 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-25T17:09:01 < Laurenceb_> then the z component is obviously a value
2012-02-25T17:09:14 < Laurenceb_> that should be sin(heading-90degrees)
2012-02-25T17:09:31 < Laurenceb_> oh - magnoxaccel needs to be normalized
2012-02-25T17:09:40 < Laurenceb_> ie devided by its length
2012-02-25T17:09:43 < Laurenceb_> *divided
2012-02-25T17:10:46 < Laurenceb_> that will give you a unit vector along world East direction
2012-02-25T17:10:55 < Laurenceb_> e.g. North,East,Down frame
2012-02-25T17:11:01 < Laurenceb_> so the world y axis
2012-02-25T17:11:23 < Laurenceb_> oh
2012-02-25T17:11:32 < Laurenceb_> in which case you cross with body y
2012-02-25T17:11:54 < Laurenceb_> ie cross world East with body y , i.e. (0,1,0)
2012-02-25T17:13:55 < Laurenceb_> then the z component of that vector is sin(angle you need to turn about quadcopter z axis to have heading true north)
2012-02-25T17:14:03 < Laurenceb_> *magnetic north
2012-02-25T17:16:19 < dongs> uhh ok im gonna copypaste all this and try to think real hard
2012-02-25T17:16:42 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-02-25T17:16:49 < Laurenceb_> no that would also reverse direction
2012-02-25T17:16:53 < Laurenceb_> when upside down
2012-02-25T17:27:58 < Laurenceb_> ok i think i worked it out
2012-02-25T17:28:10 < Laurenceb_> you want two different headings, the existing one is ok for control
2012-02-25T17:28:18 < dongs> oh
2012-02-25T17:28:23 < dongs> one for display is different?
2012-02-25T17:28:28 < Laurenceb_> for "nice gui" you want a world space heading
2012-02-25T17:32:04 < dongs> ok but why is flipped heading ok for nav?
2012-02-25T17:59:43 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-02-25T18:00:06 < Laurenceb_> i dont see any issue with the current code for navigation
2012-02-25T18:00:11 < dongs> Info:   FPUnit: 6 code (BP) slots and 2 literal slots
2012-02-25T18:00:11 < dongs> Info: Found Cortex-M4 r0p1, Little endian.
2012-02-25T18:00:12 < dongs> Cortex-M4 identified.
2012-02-25T18:00:14 < dongs> cool, its alive
2012-02-25T18:00:35 <+Steffann> Uh?
2012-02-25T18:00:58 < dongs> sup?
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2012-02-25T20:14:44 < TitanMKD> hi
2012-02-25T20:20:52 < zyp> hi
2012-02-25T20:22:36 < TitanMKD> STM32F4 is really amazing ;)
2012-02-25T20:23:05 < TitanMKD> it take only 300ns to synchronize and filter data stream
2012-02-25T22:14:26 < Laurenceb_> for M2M transfer, is DMA2 faster?
2012-02-25T22:14:52 < Laurenceb_> as it can connect directly to memory?
2012-02-25T22:15:05 < Laurenceb_> im looking at the bus matrix graphic on F4 datahseet
2012-02-25T22:18:38 < zippe> The CPU in an optimised copy loop is probably about as fast
2012-02-25T22:18:59 < zippe> The question is - do you have something else you could be doing while the copy is happening?
2012-02-25T22:19:28 < zippe> If the copy is large, and you don't need it right away, then DMA can be more efficient
2012-02-25T22:19:36 < zippe> But if you need the copy Right Now, then use the CPU
2012-02-25T22:22:07 < Laurenceb_> its for my gps
2012-02-25T22:22:29 < Laurenceb_> theres no way it could run without m2m dma
2012-02-25T22:22:37 < Laurenceb_> looks like dma2 is needed for this
2012-02-25T22:22:43 < Laurenceb_> ref manual p163
2012-02-25T22:30:55 < TitanMKD> Laurenceb yes it's very fast even fastest as CPU ;)
2012-02-25T22:41:51 < UnaClocker> I'm trying to convince someone that the STM32F4 is better than a Freescale MC9S12XD. He insists that the dual cores on the Freescale chip is what makes it better. Meanwhile I can think of a dozen reasons the STM32F4 is better..
2012-02-25T22:42:44 < Thorn> is there an rtos out there that supports dual cores?
2012-02-25T22:43:11 < UnaClocker> Yeah, he's not even using an RTOS on the thing.
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2012-02-25T22:44:54 < TitanMKD> Dual Core is often not better ;)
2012-02-25T22:45:58 < TitanMKD> more complex to code and synchronization between 2 core are very time consuming
2012-02-25T22:50:34 < Thorn> what's he doing on that chip that keeps both cores occupied?
2012-02-25T22:52:11 < UnaClocker> Engine management, Has the "XGATE" core running the injectors and the coil outputs, while the main chip reads the sensors, calculates the engine position and fuel requirements..
2012-02-25T22:52:51 < UnaClocker> Seems like the STM32F4 could do it, probably better with more features, and a whole lot cheaper.
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 26 2012
2012-02-26T00:09:02 < TitanMKD> UnaClocker for Engine management or other critical stuff like that I would not recommend any multi core CPU ;)
2012-02-26T00:09:44 < BrainDamage> nuclear reactor control rods & coolant loop :p
2012-02-26T00:11:04 < TitanMKD> on PowerPC conference a guy was speaking about multi core and some internal algorithm to manage multi core communication have "random" time access ;)
2012-02-26T00:12:18 < Thorn> that thing has some kind of specialized io coprocessor rather than just another cortex core (as I inderstood from some casual reading)
2012-02-26T00:13:06 < BrainDamage> well, if you keep tasks locked to a cpu core
2012-02-26T00:13:12 < BrainDamage> delay should be predictable
2012-02-26T00:13:45 < BrainDamage> until both cores attempt to access the same cache block >_>
2012-02-26T00:13:50 < Thorn> until cores have to communicate, then locks and semaphores begin
2012-02-26T00:14:28 < BrainDamage> you should keep everything independent, but it kinda throws away the multicore advantage
2012-02-26T00:15:21 < Thorn> that's not realistic, why would you have an element in yout system that doesn't communicate with anything else
2012-02-26T00:16:36 < BrainDamage> you simply write / read at fixed intervals to a shared memory section
2012-02-26T00:16:45 < BrainDamage> instead of when necessary
2012-02-26T00:18:33 < TitanMKD> yes for critical stuff like that inter Core communication shall be avoided at maximum ;)
2012-02-26T00:19:31 < TitanMKD> bye
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2012-02-26T05:07:01 < UnaClocker> Thanks for the feedback guys. Good information.
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2012-02-26T06:15:14 < ureif> this pin-compatibility thing: is there a STM32F4 that can be dropped into a STM32VLDiscovery board ?
2012-02-26T06:37:09 < zippe> You'd need to make some minor modifications to the board; the datasheet explains the differences.
2012-02-26T06:37:34 < zippe> It's probably fairer to say that a PCB layout designed for an F1 can be adapted to the F2/F4 with minimal effort.
2012-02-26T06:38:37 < zyp> pin compatibility is mainly between F2 and F4
2012-02-26T06:39:07 < zyp> because F4 is pretty much the same chip with M4F core instead of M3
2012-02-26T06:42:37 < ureif> I've already bought a few LVDiscovery boards. (should have waited a bit!)
2012-02-26T06:42:59 < ureif> Now I want to make the best of a bad situation. STLink v1 :(
2012-02-26T06:43:10 < ureif> VLDiscovery*
2012-02-26T06:46:54 < zyp> aren't they basically free anyway? give them to friends and buy new ones
2012-02-26T06:49:48 < ureif> zyp: not for me :(
2012-02-26T06:49:56 < ureif> Its about $40 in shipping to where I live.
2012-02-26T07:00:35 < zyp> yeah, but then it would be $40 in shipping for the chips to upgrade your old boards too, wouldn't it?
2012-02-26T07:01:46 < zyp> anyway, have a good night, I'm going to bed
2012-02-26T07:09:06 < ureif> good night
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2012-02-26T10:33:25 < Thorn> I'm connecting input voltage through a divider to a stm32 analog pin. the stm32 is powered from the same voltage via a dc/dc converter and a linear regulator, so it's not going to be immediately powered when the circuit is, but the analog pin will be inder voltage immediately. is this a problem and what to do?
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2012-02-26T11:09:38 < zippe> Thorn: read the datasheet re: permitted voltage/current in that acse
2012-02-26T11:09:40 < zippe> er, case
2012-02-26T11:09:58 < zippe> You may be OK with a high-value blocking resistor depending on your bandwidth expectations
2012-02-26T11:10:23 < zippe> Alternatively consider diodes to bypass to power/ground
2012-02-26T11:10:56 < jpa-> the injected current limit is 5mA, so as long as your resistor divider gives less it is fine
2012-02-26T11:14:26 < Thorn> yes but internal protection diodes in the stm32 are probably connected to Vcc
2012-02-26T11:15:28 < Thorn> and I think Laurenceb told about frying a pin that way before
2012-02-26T11:15:52 < jpa-> i think that the injected current stuff means the protection diodes
2012-02-26T11:16:54 < Thorn> absolute maximum input voltage on a non-5V tolerant pin is 4V (no relation to Vcc)
2012-02-26T11:17:15 < Thorn> but I've no idea if that still holds when the chip is not powered
2012-02-26T11:18:46 < Thorn> right, the 5mA current is for when Vin > Vdd
2012-02-26T11:18:54 < jpa-> yeah, and as long as the protection diodes are happy (i.e. the current is small enough so that they can handle it) the voltage won't rise above that
2012-02-26T11:20:26 < Thorn> I'm measuring 24V with a 1:10 divider so max voltage is 2.4V (or 3V if you consider the breakdown voltage of the TVS which is 30V)
2012-02-26T11:21:42 < Thorn> and the current should be lower than 0.24mA
2012-02-26T11:25:34 < Thorn> okay, thanks, looks like it might work
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2012-02-26T19:25:45 < Thorn> what is stm32 Vdda current? datasheets are silent as far as I can tell
2012-02-26T19:26:48 < Tom_itx> even in the electrical section?
2012-02-26T19:28:12 < Thorn> I just read through it at least twice
2012-02-26T19:29:06 < Tom_itx> search the pdf for 'vdda'
2012-02-26T19:29:18 < Thorn> did that too
2012-02-26T19:29:22 < Tom_itx> hmm
2012-02-26T19:30:10 < Thorn> and Idda too, 1 match, DAC current consumption (380 and 480uA)
2012-02-26T19:40:42 < Tom_itx> Thorn, it's bound to be minimal
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2012-02-26T19:53:14 < jpa-> Tom_itx: why should it be minimal?
2012-02-26T19:53:29 < Tom_itx> why would it not be listed?
2012-02-26T19:53:38 < Tom_itx> internal adc shouldn't take much current
2012-02-26T19:53:39 < jpa-> ignorance of ST :P
2012-02-26T19:53:57 < Thorn> to make our life more interesting
2012-02-26T19:54:57 < Thorn> "It is recommended to power VDD and VDDA from the same source. A maximum difference of 300 mV between VDD and VDDA can be tolerated during power-up and operation."
2012-02-26T19:55:37 < Thorn> I'm placing an inductor with 4.something R of active resistance in series with Vdda
2012-02-26T19:56:01 < Thorn> hopefully it won't drop 0.3V lol
2012-02-26T19:57:54 < jpa-> oh well, i doubt the current will ever exceed 20mA, so there is some margin :)
2012-02-26T19:58:10 < jpa-> accuracy is a completely different matter
2012-02-26T19:58:58 <+Steffann> Thorn .. a search for Idda in the stm32f4 datasheets gives some info about the ADC's, DAC and PLL
2012-02-26T19:58:59 <+Steffann> ..
2012-02-26T19:59:21 < Thorn> that's a f103xC
2012-02-26T19:59:58 < Thorn> so what do they say?
2012-02-26T20:00:15 <+Steffann> Oh, I just closed the pdf
2012-02-26T20:00:26 < Thorn> okay
2012-02-26T20:01:19 < Thorn> I don't have much of a ground plane left on my pcb
2012-02-26T20:01:30 <+Steffann> Go 4 layer :P
2012-02-26T20:03:38 < jpa-> patch it together with vias :)
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2012-02-26T20:04:21 < Thorn> I have a lot of places with components and/or traces on both sides
2012-02-26T20:05:38 < Thorn> so e.g. if the 7-seg display is going to cause adc noise I'll know what not to do next time
2012-02-26T20:07:20 < Thorn> assuming it works at all that is
2012-02-26T20:09:05 <+Steffann> Superfast floppy drive emulator :)
2012-02-26T20:09:25 <+Steffann> I do
2012-02-26T20:09:36 < Thorn> wll it emulate floppy drive noises?
2012-02-26T20:09:52 <+Steffann> And dust inside the reader
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2012-02-26T22:39:18 <+Steffann> That's me
2012-02-26T23:03:11 < Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/XP6UK.png
2012-02-26T23:03:21 < Laurenceb_> f4+gps dongle ready
2012-02-26T23:04:05 < jpa-> how many channels can you track?
2012-02-26T23:04:33 < Laurenceb_> 12
2012-02-26T23:04:38 < jpa-> niiiice
2012-02-26T23:04:40 < Laurenceb_> at 8Msps
2012-02-26T23:04:46 < Laurenceb_> so 24 at 4
2012-02-26T23:04:50 < Laurenceb_> roughly
2012-02-26T23:04:58 < Laurenceb_> with 2 bit sampling
2012-02-26T23:05:08 < jpa-> i don't assume that you have finished position calculation yet?
2012-02-26T23:05:16 < Laurenceb_> but i dont have anything like working code
2012-02-26T23:05:27 < Laurenceb_> i have matlab code that produced nice fixes with the sige sampler
2012-02-26T23:05:34 < Laurenceb_> ~4m errors
2012-02-26T23:05:41 < jpa-> :)
2012-02-26T23:05:43 < Laurenceb_> and ~0.5m noise
2012-02-26T23:06:08 < Laurenceb_> ive written some thumb2 correlators but they need more work
2012-02-26T23:06:21 < Laurenceb_> just benchmarked the basics on discovery so far
2012-02-26T23:06:31 < Laurenceb_> i need to write a script to do the asm
2012-02-26T23:06:41 < Laurenceb_> its going to be about 600K of code
2012-02-26T23:07:29 < jpa-> huh, why so much?
2012-02-26T23:07:35 < Laurenceb_> 1ms chunks of data put into a buffer with m2m dma then hardcoded asm runs over them
2012-02-26T23:07:50 < Laurenceb_> so it needs hardcoded asm for all 32 possible prn codes
2012-02-26T23:08:11 < jpa-> is it that tight on time?
2012-02-26T23:08:21 < Laurenceb_> if you want lots of channels, yes
2012-02-26T23:08:38 < Laurenceb_> also doing feedback networks in software is never going to work
2012-02-26T23:08:51 < Laurenceb_> i mean LFSR or whatever its called
2012-02-26T23:09:00 < jpa-> yeah, though lookup tables might work
2012-02-26T23:09:14 < Laurenceb_> it doubles the overhead
2012-02-26T23:09:19 < Laurenceb_> and eats ram
2012-02-26T23:09:37 < Laurenceb_> F4 has 1 meg of flash so why not use it i think
2012-02-26T23:09:41 < jpa-> true
2012-02-26T23:11:28 < jpa-> you could have an RF link between two boards and do DGPS :)
2012-02-26T23:11:35 < Laurenceb_> ill have some boards free, can post to uk or maybe elsewhere
2012-02-26T23:11:54 < Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/MV4RV.png
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2012-02-26T23:14:09 < Thorn> Laurenceb_: you said earlier you fried a pin by bad power sequencing?
2012-02-26T23:15:25 < Laurenceb_> i fried the entire adc
2012-02-26T23:15:40 < Laurenceb_> by shutting down adc supply with digital rail still on
2012-02-26T23:15:50 < Thorn> ah
2012-02-26T23:16:31 < Thorn> I have an adc input that's powered earlier than the chip itself on my board
2012-02-26T23:17:09 < Thorn> however it looks like if the current into that input is <5mA nothing bad is going to happen
2012-02-26T23:17:27 < Laurenceb_> i think if its <5v you shouldnt get any current in
2012-02-26T23:17:33 < Laurenceb_> or virtually none
2012-02-26T23:17:45 < Laurenceb_> as long as the pin is 5v tolerant
2012-02-26T23:17:58 < Laurenceb_> then nothing goes through protection diodes
2012-02-26T23:18:23 < Thorn> well adc pins aren't 5v tolerant if I'm not mistaken
2012-02-26T23:19:20 < Thorn> so protection diodes are going to conduct but 5mA through them seems to be allowed
2012-02-26T23:19:21 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2012-02-26T23:19:27 < Laurenceb_> maybe not in adc mode
2012-02-26T23:19:35 < Laurenceb_> sorry i cant remember
2012-02-26T23:20:15 < Laurenceb_> but they will be in high Z mode?
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2012-02-26T23:20:55 < jpa-> they will be in no mode because the chip is not on yet
2012-02-26T23:21:10 < Laurenceb_> exactly
2012-02-26T23:21:16 < Laurenceb_> so they will be in high z mode
2012-02-26T23:21:41 < Laurenceb_> which i think means up to 5 v is o
2012-02-26T23:21:50 < jpa-> hmm.. i think the protection diodes will conduct to Vdd when Vdd = 0V
2012-02-26T23:22:09 < jpa-> or hmm, they are zeners for 5V pins, right?
2012-02-26T23:22:43 < Laurenceb_> yes
2012-02-26T23:22:50 < Laurenceb_> not normal protection diodes
2012-02-26T23:31:42 < Thorn> okay, thanks for the help ang good night
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2012-02-26T23:53:01 <+Steffanx> What's that little chip on the right Laurenceb_ ?
2012-02-26T23:54:49 < jpa-> gps rf chip
2012-02-26T23:55:06 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but which on
2012-02-26T23:55:06 <+Steffanx> e
2012-02-26T23:55:27 <+Steffanx> nvm
2012-02-26T23:55:37 <+Steffanx> That C7 isn't part of the part number :)
2012-02-26T23:57:51 < jpa-> SE4120
2012-02-26T23:59:05 <+Steffanx> Not FAR-F6KE?
2012-02-26T23:59:24 <+Steffanx> Or hwatever that is
--- Day changed Mon Feb 27 2012
2012-02-27T00:00:44 <+Steffanx> Hmf
2012-02-27T00:01:50 <+Steffanx> Oh no, that's something else
2012-02-27T00:06:00 <+Steffanx> btw, isn't that xtal not a little bit far away from the pins?
2012-02-27T00:06:21 <+Steffanx> -not
2012-02-27T00:08:08 < jpa-> not that important as it is an oscillator and not just xtal
2012-02-27T00:08:25 < jpa-> will add a little noise though
2012-02-27T00:11:32 <+Steffanx> And the extra traces below the SE4120 chip, sure that's something you should do?
2012-02-27T00:12:18 <+Steffanx> I've read a few times, i think it was in datasheets of gyro's/accelerometers, they advice you NOT to do that
2012-02-27T00:13:05 <+Steffanx> below = under
2012-02-27T00:14:44 < jpa-> hmm.. not that bad as there is a ground plane on the other side
2012-02-27T00:15:12 < jpa-> not much one can do about it in only 2 layers without breaking the shield box
2012-02-27T00:19:36 <+Steffanx> We'll see how bad it is :P
2012-02-27T00:19:40 <+Steffanx> *hear
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2012-02-27T00:23:56 <+Steffanx> The 4-layer service from itead isn't that expensive jpa- :)
2012-02-27T00:24:56 <+Steffanx> oh, still 65$, thought it was cheaper
2012-02-27T00:25:52 < jpa-> but Laurenceb_ is very cheap ,)
2012-02-27T00:26:56 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_  should work harder
2012-02-27T00:27:02 < Laurenceb_> seeedstudio
2012-02-27T00:28:27 <+Steffanx> Yes, ofcourse
2012-02-27T00:31:30 < Tom_itx> you know seeed and itead use the same vendor?
2012-02-27T00:31:56 <+Steffanx> I read a few times about it, but never seen proof of it
2012-02-27T00:31:59 < Tom_itx> let capnkernel quote it as he is using the same one as they
2012-02-27T00:32:18 < Tom_itx> capn said he met with seeed and they told him
2012-02-27T00:33:01 <+Steffanx> oh ok
2012-02-27T00:33:09 <+Steffanx> Almost proof enough for me
2012-02-27T00:33:16 <+Steffanx> *enough proof
2012-02-27T00:33:55 < Tom_itx> either is acceptable grammar
2012-02-27T00:34:21 <+Steffanx> Yeah, but you americans accept almost everything
2012-02-27T00:34:23 <+Steffanx> :)
2012-02-27T00:34:26 < Laurenceb_> the only issue with seeed is their drill rig
2012-02-27T00:34:30 <+Steffanx> (when it comes to grammer)
2012-02-27T00:34:32 <+Steffanx> ar
2012-02-27T00:34:42 < Tom_itx> :)
2012-02-27T00:34:45 < Laurenceb_> tends to sometimes have massive errors
2012-02-27T00:35:01 < Laurenceb_> ive always been lucky
2012-02-27T00:35:02 <+Steffanx> Didn't see errors in my board..
2012-02-27T00:35:04 < Tom_itx> i'm considering letting him bid one
2012-02-27T00:35:12 < Laurenceb_> and had errors on gnd to gnd vias
2012-02-27T00:42:28 < Laurenceb_> should i put a cap on my NRST line?
2012-02-27T00:42:43 < Laurenceb_> ive got NRST broken out to SWD header atm
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2012-02-27T04:42:10 < Xamusk> IŽm having a problem, where it appears that the core isnŽt following the SCB->VTOR register
2012-02-27T04:43:13 < Xamusk> IŽm trying to use the maple bootloader on my own board, but somehow the program is entering the default handler for the bootloader, even after I entered my program and set SCB->VTOR
2012-02-27T04:43:25 < Xamusk> any ideas on what I could be doing wrong?
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2012-02-27T05:46:50 < Xamusk> nevermind, I found how to work around the problem for now
2012-02-27T05:46:54 < Xamusk> bye
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2012-02-27T06:20:02 < dongs> why would anyone want to use maple bootloader
2012-02-27T06:20:07 < dongs> when ST has a perfectly working one in ROM.
2012-02-27T06:20:10 < dongs> silly users.
2012-02-27T06:20:17 < dongs> maple more liek aids.
2012-02-27T06:23:27 < dongs> i started reading how to do IAP wiht bootlolder, moving vector tables, writing linker scripts, using gcc, all that other jazz, fuck that, just write some asm in startup vector to jump to ROM bootloader on a condition, problem: SOLVED.
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2012-02-27T06:28:59 < dongs> i love linker scripts , they're so well documented.
2012-02-27T06:29:06 < dongs> makefiles too.
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2012-02-27T09:25:17 < ziph> Ok, that's just cruel.
2012-02-27T09:25:28 < ziph> A bug that only shows up when JTAG isn't connected.
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2012-02-27T10:38:50 < Tectu> morning folks
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2012-02-27T10:47:41 < jpa-> morning
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2012-02-27T11:04:07 < Tectu> guys, do you programm your stm32 via serial bootloader or do you use real debuggers/JTAGs?
2012-02-27T11:04:25 < Tectu> stm32 looks interesting to me because you don't need special stuff for development
2012-02-27T11:04:42 < jpa-> stlink
2012-02-27T11:04:54 < jpa-> (which is cheap, included on the $10 discovery board)
2012-02-27T11:05:05 < Tectu> i have that discovery board right next to me
2012-02-27T11:05:23 < Tectu> just not sure if i want to use that in future projects or buy a real jtag (which is really expensive)
2012-02-27T11:05:28 < Tectu> and i am developing under linux
2012-02-27T11:05:33 < Tectu> stlink is running right now
2012-02-27T11:05:44 < jpa-> SWD (stlink) is less pins than jtag :P
2012-02-27T11:06:02 < Tectu> ok
2012-02-27T11:06:17 < Tectu> so you always use your discovery board for programming/debugging?
2012-02-27T11:06:49 < jpa-> yeah.. though lately most of my development has been on a device that doesn't have debugger connection, just usb bootloader
2012-02-27T11:07:00 < Tectu> but seriously. am i right that the stlink chip on the discovery is an stm32f103 which is more powerfull than the 'real' stm32 on the demoboard?
2012-02-27T11:07:02 < jpa-> works fine but a bit annoying
2012-02-27T11:07:24 < jpa-> Tectu: it has usb, yeah, but on the other hand it has less flash and io pins
2012-02-27T11:07:33 < Tectu> ok
2012-02-27T11:07:38 < ureif> a bit paranoid about 'real debuggers' and 'real STM32s' ? :)
2012-02-27T11:08:51 < Tectu> ureif, not sure yet ;)
2012-02-27T11:09:13 < Tectu> well, i'm just comming from the AVR side
2012-02-27T11:16:59 < Tectu> ARM toolchains look a little bit more complicated
2012-02-27T11:18:24 < jpa-> IMO the libc issue is the biggest problem
2012-02-27T11:18:42 < jpa-> on avr you have the nice avrlibc, on arm.. well, you have a dozen crappy libc's
2012-02-27T11:18:59 < ureif> gnu libc ?
2012-02-27T11:19:20 < jpa-> ureif: uh, that's definitely too bloat for cortex-m3, don't you think?
2012-02-27T11:19:35 < Tectu> i'm even not sure what's the difference between all these  arm-none-eabi arm-elf etc.
2012-02-27T11:20:58 < jpa-> arm-none-eabi is what i use :P
2012-02-27T11:21:15 < Tectu> what's the difference to arm-elf?
2012-02-27T11:21:20 < Tectu> i just got with arm-none-eabi now
2012-02-27T11:23:19 < zyp> the differences are in the ABI
2012-02-27T11:23:35 < jpa-> i think that arm-elf is for compiling linux programs
2012-02-27T11:23:36 < zyp> i.e. how function parameters and so on are passed
2012-02-27T11:24:23 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-27T11:24:26 < jpa-> though by setting a few parameters manually (-fno-common -fno-stdlibs -mcpu etc.) you can usually successfully use whatever arm toolchain ever :P
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2012-02-27T11:25:02 < Tectu> did you ever use the serial bootloader for programming? i found the  'stm32flash' on googlecode. well, it works, but when i press the resetbutton or turn it off and on again, the program is gone
2012-02-27T11:25:33 < domen> are your boot pins correct?
2012-02-27T11:26:05 < Tectu> aaw, right, i read about that before i bought the board
2012-02-27T11:26:07 < Tectu> i may check thaqt
2012-02-27T11:26:09 < Tectu> that*
2012-02-27T11:26:27 < domen> because boot pins select the bootloader vs. application flash
2012-02-27T11:27:48 < jpa-> yeah, if it boots into bootloader it sits in the bootloader until you tell it to "go"
2012-02-27T11:28:01 < jpa-> the arduino bootloader is nicer in the way that it has a timeout :P
2012-02-27T11:28:14 < Tectu> so currently my stm32 goes into bootloader mode and is waiting for some program passed by serial interface?
2012-02-27T11:28:19 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-27T11:28:24 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-27T11:28:58 < Tectu> where's the advantage in seperating bootloader and  application flash mode?
2012-02-27T11:29:20 < domen> you can't overwrite the bootloader
2012-02-27T11:29:29 < jpa-> well you can get the application to boot immediately
2012-02-27T11:29:55 < jpa-> on arduino (and other bootloaders that rely on timeouts) it will take a second or more before you get into the actual program
2012-02-27T11:30:17 < Tectu> but when i change the mode now, i am not able anymore to flash a new program via bootloader?
2012-02-27T11:30:44 < domen> until you change the boot pins again :P
2012-02-27T11:31:44 < jpa-> Tectu: you can also pass the "-g" or something (can't remember) parameter to stm32flash to tell it to "go"
2012-02-27T11:32:15 < Tectu> jpa-, it actually goes, the program is running. what i am talking about is that it dosen't run after i resetted the controler
2012-02-27T11:32:26 < jpa-> yeah, but every time :P
2012-02-27T11:32:31 < Tectu> but then i guess the best solution is to just change boot pins after i finished developping? ;-)
2012-02-27T11:32:39 < Tectu> jpa-, that dosen't work?
2012-02-27T11:33:19 < Tectu> okay, wait. important question: i am now passing the program via bootloader. Is it then written to memory, and when i change bootpins to memory mode, the program is executed, right?
2012-02-27T11:33:35 < jpa-> or yet another way is what dongs suggested at 06:23, i.e. check something at your own startup code, like if the RS232 pin is high, and then jump into the bootloader
2012-02-27T11:33:40 < Tectu> but when i change the pins back to booltoader mode, is the bootloader still there, or is it overwritten by the 'final' program now?
2012-02-27T11:34:00 < domen> Tectu: the bootloader is always there
2012-02-27T11:34:08 < Tectu> good to know :)
2012-02-27T11:34:36 < Tectu> are there any performance problems, by the way, when you use the bootloader to program? i guess not, right? you have the full power of the ARM and full system access after you finished 'flashing'
2012-02-27T11:34:44 < domen> it's on different location, and boot pins just remap the interrupt (+stack/reset) vectors to bootloader area
2012-02-27T11:35:24 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-27T11:35:44 < Tectu> jpa-, btw, why are people using arm-elf on ARMs when you say it's just for linux programs on ARM platforms?
2012-02-27T11:36:04 < jpa-> Tectu: i don't know, maybe it is somehow easier to find? :P
2012-02-27T11:36:50 < jpa-> btw, when using the bootloader, the stack pointer is not automatically initialized your vector table so be sure to set it manually in your startup code
2012-02-27T11:37:02 < jpa-> +from
2012-02-27T11:41:22 < Tectu> hm
2012-02-27T11:41:31 < Tectu> read that from gostm32.blogspot.com
2012-02-27T11:45:07 < Tectu> other question. since my toolchains seems to work properly: are there any complet, or at least usable stm32 c programming tutorials like for AVRs, or just go with C experience and the datasheet?
2012-02-27T11:48:48 < jpa-> well there are the examples for the st peripheral library.. but it sucks (personal opinion) ,)
2012-02-27T11:49:50 < Tectu> yeah, that's my next question: which library?!
2012-02-27T11:50:23 < zyp> that's the hard part
2012-02-27T11:50:26 < jpa-> depends on what you want to do
2012-02-27T11:50:41 < zyp> you could use some shit somebody else wrote, or write your own shit
2012-02-27T11:50:45 < zyp> I chose the latter
2012-02-27T11:51:11 < jpa-> for peripherals chibios, libopencm3, no library... for libc newlib, pdlibc, baselibc (klibc)...
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2012-02-27T11:52:09 < Tectu> well, i am not the C guru, i have 3 years of C experiences on AVR microcontrollers and on x86 on linux. and to what to do: with the ARMs, i am just going for hobby usage, just education at the moment. That's how i learned how to use AVRs, just take a few parts and go :D
2012-02-27T11:52:23 < Tectu> which one are you using, jpa- ?
2012-02-27T11:52:35 < Tectu> zyp, you wrote your own from ground up - the assembler part?
2012-02-27T11:52:46 < jpa-> no assembler necessary
2012-02-27T11:52:57 < zyp> what jpa- said
2012-02-27T11:53:05 < zyp> I only have some inline assembly here and there
2012-02-27T11:53:06 < jpa-> i'm using chibios in one project and no peripheral lib (just stm32f10x.h register definitions) in another project
2012-02-27T11:53:21 < Tectu> hmm
2012-02-27T11:53:25 < Tectu> well
2012-02-27T11:53:35 < jpa-> for libc i'm using baselibc, but i'm definitely partial on that issue as baselibc is some crap that i cobbled together myself from various sources
2012-02-27T11:53:43 < Tectu> but i heard that i shall be awared of the stm lib?
2012-02-27T11:53:50 < zyp> I've used chibios too, but the architecture of that is not how I like it
2012-02-27T11:54:23 < zyp> and I guess I'm using newlib for libc stuff
2012-02-27T11:54:25 < jpa-> Tectu: quite many are happy with ST's own lib, but IMO it is a bit confusing and using the hardware directly is actually easier
2012-02-27T11:55:19 < zyp> I like some of the advantages C++ have over C, so I've used that for everything
2012-02-27T11:55:58 < Tectu> well
2012-02-27T11:56:10 < Tectu> sounds all like a shitty masochisty par
2012-02-27T11:56:27 < zyp> huh?
2012-02-27T11:58:02 < jpa-> ?
2012-02-27T12:14:35 < Tectu> na, drop that ;-)
2012-02-27T12:14:36 < Tectu> part*
2012-02-27T12:14:41 < Tectu> btw, how about all, that primer stuff?
2012-02-27T12:15:21 < Tectu> looks like many people start into stm32 with a primer
2012-02-27T12:20:53 < jpa-> primer?
2012-02-27T12:21:02 < jpa-> you mean blinky.c? ,)
2012-02-27T12:22:50 < Tectu> na, primer1 and primer2, the development platform from stm, primer2, that one that looks like a "smartphone" with glcd and touchscreen etc.
2012-02-27T12:23:32 < jpa-> aha, never heard about them :)
2012-02-27T12:27:51 < Tectu> aw
2012-02-27T12:27:52 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-27T12:28:39 < Tectu> btw, what do you guys think about this?  http://futurlec.com/STM32_Development_Board.shtml
2012-02-27T12:30:10 < jpa-> depends on what you want to do; IMO discovery is enough for random stuff and pcb's are cheap to make when you have an actual device to implement
2012-02-27T12:30:40 < Tectu> na, i just like the price of that one :D
2012-02-27T12:30:55 < Tectu> and imo one of the best price/performance boards i've ever seen
2012-02-27T12:30:56 < jpa-> true, it is very affordable :)
2012-02-27T12:33:50 < BrainDamage> you'll lack a debugger tough
2012-02-27T12:33:55 < BrainDamage> unlike the discovery boards
2012-02-27T12:35:54 < Tectu> aah, there is a new STM32L discovery board out there :)
2012-02-27T12:37:03 < BrainDamage> new?
2012-02-27T12:58:14 < Tectu> dunno, didn't see that one before
2012-02-27T12:58:19 < Tectu> stm32 with a small lcd
2012-02-27T12:58:29 < Tectu> so, lunch time, see you guys. and thank you for your help
2012-02-27T13:30:15 < jpa-> hrm.. just using 64-bit division on gcc brings in about a kilobyte of useless code
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2012-02-27T13:48:08 < domen> how can i test (in code) if processor is currently executing exception/interrupt or "normal code"?
2012-02-27T13:50:23 < jpa-> domen: NVIC interrupt active register
2012-02-27T13:50:49 < jpa-> (in PM0056)
2012-02-27T13:51:38 < jpa-> actually also IPSR register tells that
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2012-02-27T13:52:00 < domen> right, ipsr, but there's no "no exception" exception
2012-02-27T13:52:21 < jpa-> "0: Thread mode"?
2012-02-27T13:52:59 < domen> oh... aka "Base level"?
2012-02-27T13:53:57 < domen> the thing is:
2012-02-27T13:53:57 < jpa-> dunno what is "base level", but "Thread mode" is the term used in PM0056 and it is defined on page 14 as the "non-exception execution"
2012-02-27T13:54:03 < domen> cpsr           0x61000020       1627389984
2012-02-27T13:55:45 < domen> ah, yes, that's the same as "base level" from cortex-m3 trm
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2012-02-27T14:51:34 < Tectu> jpa-, you told about the stack pointer in bootloader mode
2012-02-27T14:51:44 < Tectu> do you know this code from gostm32.blogspot.com?  http://pastebin.com/ZM2jaMj2
2012-02-27T14:51:58 < Tectu> i guess you talked about line 3?
2012-02-27T14:58:19 < Laurenceb> anyone here used the auto preload enable on timers?
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2012-02-27T15:44:48 < jpa-> Tectu: actually no; but that code doesn't do any C runtime initialization either, so it is really not a very complete example
2012-02-27T15:45:05 < jpa-> e.g. global variables won't get their initial values without some startup code
2012-02-27T15:46:04 < jpa-> i'm sorry i don't have a good basic example, but e.g. ResetHandler in this file sets the stack pointer: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/dsoquad/pawn/DS203/startup.c
2012-02-27T15:47:00 < jpa-> i'm not quite sure why the bootloader doesn't properly initialize the stack pointer, but resetting the device does
2012-02-27T16:00:17 < Tectu> what the hell is that
2012-02-27T16:00:22 < Tectu> jpa-
2012-02-27T16:00:56 < jpa-> the hell?
2012-02-27T16:01:02 < jpa-> it's crappy code
2012-02-27T16:01:51 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-27T16:04:35 < jpa-> but ResetHandler and __Init_Data are the important parts.. you need code like that somewhere for globals/statics to function properly.. but newlib includes some version if you are using it & a newlib-compatible linker script
2012-02-27T16:07:23 < Tectu> isn't there any real good example code ?
2012-02-27T16:07:31 < Tectu> it feels like a pain.
2012-02-27T16:07:56 < jpa-> well chibios is real clean and nice code IMO
2012-02-27T16:08:10 < jpa-> the examples, too
2012-02-27T16:08:50 < jpa-> but the thing is, if you want to tinker freely with no-os scenarios, you'll end up writing your own linker scripts and __Init_Data sooner or later
2012-02-27T16:10:03 < Tectu> chibiOS, so it's an OS?
2012-02-27T16:10:43 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-27T16:10:53 < jpa-> RTOS and HAL layer
2012-02-27T16:11:27 < jpa-> freertos is another good one, but it doesn't have any drivers for the peripherals
2012-02-27T16:12:54 < Tectu> do the most people use an OS on they're ARM applications? o0
2012-02-27T16:13:21 < jpa-> people do whatever fits for their application
2012-02-27T16:13:43 < Tectu> ^^
2012-02-27T16:15:38 < jpa-> it all depends on a bunch of factors, like how easy you want it to be, do you need malloc, do you need multiple threads, do you need SD card/usb/other peripherals worth a driver
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2012-02-27T16:23:00 < Tectu> well, atm i'd just like to get familiar with my stm32f100rb, do some GPIO stuff, readin ADC, drive LCD, handle SDcard
2012-02-27T16:23:03 < Tectu> that are my targets
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2012-02-27T16:30:47 < jpa-> Tectu: i would get started with chibios
2012-02-27T16:31:07 < jpa-> it's a lot easier when you have easy to use serial drivers etc. available
2012-02-27T16:31:12 < jpa-> even if you want only a single thread
2012-02-27T16:31:30 < jpa-> but no-os configs are definitely useful also :P
2012-02-27T16:32:54 < Tectu> okay, i'll take a look, thank you
2012-02-27T16:33:32 < Tectu> gotcha:  www.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:articles:stm32vl_discovery
2012-02-27T16:35:00 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-27T16:36:26 < Tectu> btw, what devel tools do you use?
2012-02-27T16:36:29 < Tectu> i go with vim :D
2012-02-27T16:39:27 < jpa-> kate :)
2012-02-27T16:40:05 < Tectu> oh no, Mr.KDE
2012-02-27T16:40:49 < Tectu> ;-)
2012-02-27T16:44:54 < Tectu> jpa-, i have to say that chibios looks very impressive
2012-02-27T16:49:33 < jpa-> yeah, it is very nice :)
2012-02-27T16:49:50 < Tectu> can i keep it, can i? :D
2012-02-27T16:53:31 < jpa-> don't worry, you'll feel the need.. the need for RAW HARDWARE! sooner or later
2012-02-27T16:55:37 < Tectu> i guess so :)
2012-02-27T16:59:29 < Tectu> it dosen't compile >.<
2012-02-27T16:59:34 < Tectu> i hate that
2012-02-27T16:59:36 < Tectu> all that library stuff
2012-02-27T16:59:49 < Tectu> you never ever know what exactly you need etc
2012-02-27T17:09:17 < dongs> ok this is totally fucked. does stm32 have a failure mode where it outputs TIM1_CH1 pwm over the USART1_TX pin?
2012-02-27T17:10:35 < dongs> the pins are next to each other.
2012-02-27T17:11:03 < Thorn> solder bridge
2012-02-27T17:11:08 < Laurenceb> lol
2012-02-27T17:11:08 < dongs> .. it worked before
2012-02-27T17:11:27 < dongs> this is truly bizzare
2012-02-27T17:11:38 < dongs> the only thing is, i've had 16V leads flying around taht area
2012-02-27T17:11:46 < dongs> so im thinking i might have zapped the T1C1 pwm pin.
2012-02-27T17:11:58 < jpa-> dongs: maybe it is TIM1_CH2?
2012-02-27T17:12:11 < jpa-> which is on the USART1_TX pin
2012-02-27T17:12:23 < dongs> i dont set altmapping though
2012-02-27T17:12:29 < jpa-> it's not alt
2012-02-27T17:12:38 < dongs> pin30 stm32f103
2012-02-27T17:13:30 < jpa-> USART1_TX(8)/ 
2012-02-27T17:13:30 < jpa-> TIM1_CH2(8) 
2012-02-27T17:14:23 < dongs> and why would it become t1ch2 then?
2012-02-27T17:14:27 < dongs> i didnt do anything different.
2012-02-27T17:14:28 < jpa-> i think it is TIM1_CH2 as soon as you enable the TIM1 output 2 in the TIM1 config register
2012-02-27T17:14:39 < dongs> nono. i changed nothing at all.
2012-02-27T17:14:50 < jpa-> oh, there is no fault in your code, i forgot :)
2012-02-27T17:14:50 < dongs> infact identical board sitting next to it works as expected.
2012-02-27T17:14:57 < jpa-> ah
2012-02-27T17:15:02 < jpa-> interesting then
2012-02-27T17:17:41 < Tectu> jpa-, when i give the stm32 example from chibios a make, it says, that the file /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/include/stdint.h dosen't find stdint.h in line 3. the file contains:  http://pastebin.com/iAgAD9g8   any ideas?
2012-02-27T17:19:35 < jpa-> Tectu: sounds like your toolchain is broken :)
2012-02-27T17:20:12 < Tectu> jpa-, fuck :3
2012-02-27T17:20:26 < Tectu> it's funny, because i could build the gostm32.blogspot.com example
2012-02-27T17:22:58 < jpa-> well that didn't use stdint.h or much anything?
2012-02-27T17:23:28 < Tectu> nope, only #include "stm32f10x.h"
2012-02-27T17:23:36 < jpa-> fiddling with the include paths might help
2012-02-27T17:23:47 < jpa-> i've been lazy and just used codesorcery
2012-02-27T17:23:50 < Tectu> sorry, what do you mean?
2012-02-27T17:25:45 < dongs> ok
2012-02-27T17:25:47 < dongs> it was def fried.
2012-02-27T17:25:50 < dongs> replaced chip, works.
2012-02-27T17:25:52 < dongs> loldongs.
2012-02-27T17:26:00 < dongs> thats a pretty cute failure method though.
2012-02-27T17:26:55 < dongs> lessons learned: dont wave your dong around 16V
2012-02-27T17:27:22 < Tectu> dong?
2012-02-27T17:28:30 < dongs> yes
2012-02-27T17:29:30 < jpa-> Tectu: i've been lazy and using the TAR from here: https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/release2032   just extract somewhere and add to path, everything works
2012-02-27T17:29:41 < Tectu> sure?
2012-02-27T17:29:45 < Tectu> may i give it a shot?
2012-02-27T17:29:52 < jpa-> well works for me :)
2012-02-27T17:29:57 < jpa-> that's the most guarantee i can give
2012-02-27T17:30:17 < Tectu> i just took the summon-arm-toolchain because it was a ./summon-arm-toolchain only :D
2012-02-27T17:30:48 < Tectu> did you took the source tarball or the IA32 GNU/Linux file?
2012-02-27T17:30:48 < jpa-> it didn't build for me, that's why i've been using codesourcery :)
2012-02-27T17:30:54 < Tectu> what the hell is IA32 btw?
2012-02-27T17:31:00 < jpa-> IA32 GNU/Linux TAR
2012-02-27T17:31:04 < jpa-> it means 32bit x86
2012-02-27T17:31:15 < Tectu> IA?
2012-02-27T17:31:22 < jpa-> intel architecture or something
2012-02-27T17:31:54 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-27T17:32:56 < Tectu> jpa-, ROFL i now know what you mean with "just extract" :D
2012-02-27T17:33:00 < Tectu> it's allready all done o0
2012-02-27T17:33:55 < jpa-> yeah.. i don't really understand why they have that bloat installer option when tar xzf is so much faster and easier :)
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2012-02-27T17:42:53 < dongs> FLASH_ProgramHalfWord does that program a byte or wat
2012-02-27T17:42:57 < dongs> the docs are worthlessly informative
2012-02-27T17:43:02 < dongs> as well as function arguments.
2012-02-27T17:45:12 < jpa-> halfword is usually 16 bits
2012-02-27T17:52:12 < Tectu> jpa-, how did you add to PATH?
2012-02-27T17:52:36 < Tectu> export PATH=$PATH:/crazy/path/codesourcery/arm-none-eabi/ ?
2012-02-27T17:53:17 < jpa-> export PATH=$PATH:/home/petteri/stm32/arm-2011.09/bin/
2012-02-27T17:53:29 < Tectu> okay, thank you
2012-02-27T17:54:24 < Tectu> bash: /home/tectu/projects/arm/tools/codesourcery/bin/arm-none-eabi-gcc: No such file or directory
2012-02-27T17:54:24 < Tectu> damn
2012-02-27T17:54:45 < jpa-> did you move the folder after adding it to path? :P
2012-02-27T17:54:45 < Tectu> the funny thing is that autocomplete with tab is there, when i go with  arm-no<tab>
2012-02-27T17:54:52 < Tectu> no
2012-02-27T17:55:04 < jpa-> bash is sometimes funny, try "hash arm-none-eabi-gcc"
2012-02-27T17:55:13 < jpa-> also,if you have another toolchain installed be sure to run "which arm-none-eabi-gcc" to see that you are using the right one :P
2012-02-27T17:56:22 < jaeckel> uhm
2012-02-27T17:56:58 < jaeckel> just use "export PATH=/path/to/your/stuff/:$PATH"
2012-02-27T17:57:08 < jaeckel> to be sure to use your version
2012-02-27T17:57:21 < jaeckel> since bash always uses the first found
2012-02-27T17:59:18 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-27T17:59:21 < Tectu> have to try at home
2012-02-27T17:59:23 < Tectu> bus in a few minutes
2012-02-27T17:59:26 < Tectu> see you guys :)
2012-02-27T18:33:47 < Laurenceb> __complex__ int comples ok
2012-02-27T18:34:02 < Laurenceb> but not __complex__ int32_t
2012-02-27T18:34:05 < Laurenceb> why not?
2012-02-27T18:39:21 < zyp> because you can't make any type complex like that?
2012-02-27T18:40:15 < Laurenceb> apparently
2012-02-27T18:55:47 < jpa-> i want a complex boolean :)
2012-02-27T18:56:24 < ziph> Use Visual Basic then, I think they have about 7 different values in the boolean type.
2012-02-27T18:57:11 < Tectu> jpa-,
2012-02-27T18:57:12 < Tectu> there
2012-02-27T18:57:14 < Tectu> ?
2012-02-27T18:57:26 < ziph> My DMA transfers for very different peripherals (UART in one case, I2S in the other) are failing, but only when booting from a power on reset rather than a JTAG reset...
2012-02-27T18:57:32 < jpa-> Tectu: yes
2012-02-27T18:57:41 < Tectu> jpa-, this is my $PATH:
2012-02-27T18:57:42 < Tectu> /home/tectu/projects/arm/tools/arm-2011.09/bin/:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/bin/core_perl
2012-02-27T18:57:53 < Tectu> and i do get arm-none-eabi-gcc with tab autocomplete
2012-02-27T18:58:17 < Tectu> but hen i execute arm-none-eabi-gcc:  bash: /home/tectu/projects/arm/tools/arm-2011.09/bin/arm-none-eabi-gcc: No such file or directory
2012-02-27T18:58:31 < jpa-> Tectu: try 'hash -d' to update bash cache
2012-02-27T18:58:45 < Tectu> and this is the ls -l    -rwxr-xr-x 2 tectu users  270608 Dec  6 20:11 arm-none-eabi-gcc
2012-02-27T18:59:21 < Tectu> same error, jpa-
2012-02-27T18:59:58 < jpa-> that is strange.. does using full path work?
2012-02-27T19:00:05 < Tectu> nope
2012-02-27T19:00:18 < jpa-> also try    ldd /full/path   to see if it is missing any libraries
2012-02-27T19:00:46 < Tectu> not a dynamic executable
2012-02-27T19:00:56 < Tectu> dafuq?
2012-02-27T19:01:02 < jpa-> hmm.. are you on 64-bit system without 32-bit support?
2012-02-27T19:01:20 < Tectu> oh
2012-02-27T19:01:29 < Tectu> Archlinux x86_64
2012-02-27T19:01:31 < Tectu> so, yes :D
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2012-02-27T19:02:52 < jpa-> :)
2012-02-27T19:03:41 < Tectu> such a stupid fault
2012-02-27T19:03:41 < Tectu> well, thank you then
2012-02-27T19:03:49 < Tectu> i'll try it as soon as i am on a wlan and not on mobile internet anymore
2012-02-27T19:03:55 < jpa-> sorry that it didn't work
2012-02-27T19:04:21 < Tectu> what? why? you did great ;-)
2012-02-27T19:04:46 < jpa-> ,)
2012-02-27T19:05:00 < Tectu> have to compile codesourcery on my own then, i guess
2012-02-27T19:06:26 < jpa-> never did that.. i wonder if it is as easy as summon-arm-toolchain
2012-02-27T19:06:41 < ziph> Better get a copy before there isn't a free version any more. ;)
2012-02-27T19:07:13 < Tectu> jpa-, give summon a try, i guess is just failed with summon
2012-02-27T19:07:17 < Tectu> so, have to go now
2012-02-27T19:07:17 < Tectu> thank you
2012-02-27T19:07:17 < Tectu> and bb
2012-02-27T19:07:22 < Laurenceb> ziph: the dma issue sounds like some sort of init failure
2012-02-27T19:07:27 < Laurenceb> maybe some clk or other
2012-02-27T19:07:43 < jpa-> clk, config registers, stack pointer or something :)
2012-02-27T19:07:59 < jpa-> have fun looking for it ;)
2012-02-27T19:08:00 < ziph> Yeah, the second half of a UART transfer is all zeros.
2012-02-27T19:08:21 < ziph> I'm tempted just to try to find how to stop Crossworks doing all the init it does.
2012-02-27T19:09:01 < ziph> Do the free JTAG tools let you attach to a running chip without resetting it?
2012-02-27T19:10:12 < ziph> You can do it with IAR on MSP430's and it's quite useful.
2012-02-27T19:13:35 < ziph> 15 characters get transmitted, 11 sent as 0's.
2012-02-27T19:20:54 < ziph> And if I make the transfer longer it still switches to 0's at the same point.
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2012-02-27T19:25:07 < jpa-> good evening Mr. Steffanx 
2012-02-27T19:26:07 <+Steffanx> Good evening mr. P. A.
2012-02-27T19:31:19 <+Steffanx> How is Mr. jpa- doing?
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2012-02-27T19:32:11 < jpa-> very fine, thank you for asking
2012-02-27T19:32:38 <+Steffanx> No problem :)
2012-02-27T19:39:15 < ziph> Hmm, DMA's other than the first fail after exactly 16 characters.
2012-02-27T19:39:45 < ziph> Which is the block size of the magical endian and byte width reordering machine if I recall..
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2012-02-27T20:02:03 < ziph> All the DMA registers are identical between runs.
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2012-02-27T21:05:04 < ziph> Mmmm, ok.
2012-02-27T21:05:24 < ziph> WFI kills DMA, which isn't surprising.
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2012-02-27T21:22:20 < Tectu> jpa-, all working now :)
2012-02-27T21:22:22 < Tectu> with summon-arm-toolchain
2012-02-27T21:23:19 < jpa-> nice :)
2012-02-27T21:23:30 < jpa-> you mean: all working until next problem :)
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2012-02-27T21:29:55 < Tectu> hrhr, right
2012-02-27T21:30:58 < Tectu> na, the problem was that i installed the archlinux arm-none-eabi-* packages itself, but then i had trouble, removed only a filesystme link to it. then i installed summos toolchain, but the headerfiles from the oder toolchain were still there ;-)
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2012-02-27T21:45:27 < jpa-> :)
2012-02-27T21:45:55 <+Steffanx> Why soo negative jpa- ?!?!
2012-02-27T21:47:54 < Tectu> Steffanx, maybe because he nows that i am an AVR 8-bit chimp who has nothing in the brain ;-)
2012-02-27T21:48:09 < Laurenceb_> lol
2012-02-27T21:48:42 <+Steffanx> Aaah
2012-02-27T21:48:52 <+Steffanx> That's acceptable
2012-02-27T21:51:47 < jpa-> Tectu: well, it's good enough that your brains are not banked like a PIC's ram :)
2012-02-27T21:52:46 < Tectu> thahaha
2012-02-27T21:52:55 < Tectu> i am currently forced to use PICs at school
2012-02-27T21:53:00 < Tectu> tomorrow again >.<
2012-02-27T21:53:12 < Tectu> i fu*king hate PICs :(
2012-02-27T21:53:19 < Tectu> they are so... unusable...
2012-02-27T21:53:20 <+Steffanx> pic :D
2012-02-27T21:54:52 < Tectu> na now for serious guys: i guess i'll stay in this channel, if you don't mind, and ask from time to time. maybe a little bit stupid things in your eyes, but mostly i do first my researches and try to fix it on my own ;-)
2012-02-27T21:54:56 < Tectu> so no kiddy here
2012-02-27T21:55:50 < jpa-> don't worry.. i came from a pic background
2012-02-27T21:55:51 <+Steffanx> Sure
2012-02-27T21:56:21 < jnosky> When the 16c54 first came out you couldnt beat them
2012-02-27T21:56:21 <+Steffanx> poor pooor guys
2012-02-27T21:56:36 < jpa-> the previous arm thing i ever tried to use.. i couldn't get the bootloader to answer :)
2012-02-27T21:56:51 < jnosky> $1 a piece, and single cycle execution
2012-02-27T21:59:45 < Tectu> hmm, I am currently watching arround the chibios thing. I know HAL from linux, not sure what to do on my STM32F100
2012-02-27T21:59:50 < Tectu> but well, i guess the same? ;-)
2012-02-27T22:00:05 < Tectu> whatever the HardwareAbstractionLayer on a x86 would do too, right=
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2012-02-27T22:01:39 < jpa-> yeah
2012-02-27T22:01:54 < jpa-> chibios has (theoretically) the same driver interface no matter which processor it runs on
2012-02-27T22:02:04 < jpa-> but in practise it is not perfect abstraction
2012-02-27T22:02:31 < jpa-> you still need to specify the bits of e.g. ADC config registers
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2012-02-27T22:08:41 <+Steffanx> Welcome welcome
2012-02-27T22:08:43 <+Steffanx> mr izua
2012-02-27T22:09:26 <+izua> hey mr Steffanx
2012-02-27T22:09:34 <+izua> i mean
2012-02-27T22:09:36 <+izua> good evening sir
2012-02-27T22:09:39 <+Steffanx> LOL
2012-02-27T22:09:49 <+Steffanx> I just typed "It's Sir for you" :)
2012-02-27T22:10:04 <+izua> my psychic abilities go beyond that
2012-02-27T22:10:10 <+izua> i know what you're going to say next, for example
2012-02-27T22:10:19 <+Steffanx> I don't use windows, so you can't look through it
2012-02-27T22:10:35 <+izua> nice comeback ._.
2012-02-27T22:12:44 <+Steffanx> I do have glasses, but they're not very clean :)
2012-02-27T22:28:52 < Laurenceb_> i can tbe bothered to get up at 6am
2012-02-27T22:29:29 <+Steffanx> Yay
2012-02-27T22:29:37 <+Steffanx> I get up ~7am everyday :)
2012-02-27T22:32:11 < Laurenceb_> RPi is lame anyway
2012-02-27T22:32:21 < jpa-> i get up at very random times
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--- Day changed Tue Feb 28 2012
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2012-02-28T00:22:58 < zyp> for some reason Laurenceb_ is loud about disliking the rpi, and still he's the guy talking about the release the most
2012-02-28T00:25:18 <+izua> Steffanx: http://failblog.org/2012/02/17/party-fails-after-booze-news-man-attempts-armed-robbery-at-bar-regulars-dont-give-a-single-fck/
2012-02-28T00:25:22 <+izua> from your epic land of the nether
2012-02-28T00:31:12 < zyp> nice
2012-02-28T00:53:37 <+Steffanx> Yeah, i've seen it before izua :D
2012-02-28T00:54:01 < jpa-> Steffanx: which one of those is you?
2012-02-28T00:54:03 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ dislikes the raspberrypi?!?!
2012-02-28T00:54:10 <+Steffanx> I'm not from Rotterdam
2012-02-28T00:56:17 <+Steffanx> Too bad I wake up at 7AM but I'm not near my pc
2012-02-28T00:56:36 <+Steffanx> So no raspberrypi news for me until ~8.30am
2012-02-28T01:02:48 < Tectu> jpa-, sorry, i have to come back to this again: there are _no_ raw hardware c tutorials for stm32?
2012-02-28T01:03:07 < jpa-> Tectu: i don't know, i haven't searched
2012-02-28T01:03:09 <+Steffanx> The datahseet :P
2012-02-28T01:03:21 < jpa-> there is one in my head but unfortunately the readout speed is limited
2012-02-28T01:03:29 <+Steffanx> Reference manual
2012-02-28T01:03:48 <+Steffanx> type faster jpa-
2012-02-28T01:03:57 < Tectu> jpa-, dosen't matter, i am young, i have time, sir
2012-02-28T01:04:27 <+Steffanx> Young as in < 18?
2012-02-28T01:04:57 < Tectu> well, no, young as in 18
2012-02-28T01:06:07 < jpa-> Steffanx is so old :)
2012-02-28T01:06:12 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2012-02-28T01:06:20 <+Steffanx> jpa- is older though
2012-02-28T01:06:48 <+Steffanx> (and he married too young)
2012-02-28T01:07:06 < Tectu> well, old as in irony old?
2012-02-28T01:07:23 <+Steffanx> As in only 4 or 5 years older than you
2012-02-28T01:07:54 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-28T01:07:58 < Tectu> nice :)
2012-02-28T01:08:25 < Tectu> so i am in the timeplan? :D
2012-02-28T01:09:37 <+Steffanx> It's all up to you
2012-02-28T01:11:51 < jpa-> i was in netherlands once.. i saw cows out of a train window
2012-02-28T01:12:24 <+Steffanx> I was in Finland for a few weeks, I saw water
2012-02-28T01:12:30 <+Steffanx> And looooooong words
2012-02-28T01:13:22 <+Steffanx> What about windmills jpa- ?
2012-02-28T01:13:30 < jpa-> those, too
2012-02-28T01:13:36 < jpa-> only the modern ones though
2012-02-28T01:13:44 < Tectu> i live in switzerland, i see retarded dorks
2012-02-28T01:14:26 <+Steffanx> And mountains
2012-02-28T01:14:58 < Tectu> all arround me
2012-02-28T01:15:03 < jpa-> i was in switzerland once, there were hills
2012-02-28T01:15:20 < Tectu> where have you been, jpa?
2012-02-28T01:15:21 <+Steffanx> Hills on the mountains?
2012-02-28T01:15:25 < jpa-> yes
2012-02-28T01:15:41 < jpa-> Tectu: it was a place with some silly name
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2012-02-28T01:16:13 < Tectu> jpa-, switzerland is full of silly names
2012-02-28T01:16:16 < Tectu> like 'bitsch'
2012-02-28T01:16:20 <+Steffanx> :D
2012-02-28T01:16:24 < Tectu> village 15minutes from here
2012-02-28T01:18:13 < jpa-> ah, Wauwil was the name of the place
2012-02-28T01:19:27 <+Steffanx> That's not weird
2012-02-28T01:19:53 < Tectu> not a silly name for switzerland names :D
2012-02-28T01:19:57 < Tectu> but what the hell did you do there
2012-02-28T01:20:20 <+Steffanx> I mean, I can't even pronounce the names of various villages/cities in finland..
2012-02-28T01:20:48 < Tectu> Steffanx, are you from finland?
2012-02-28T01:20:58 < Tectu> or do you currently live in?
2012-02-28T01:21:08 < jpa-> and the churches.. why do the churches in switzerland ring their bells all the time?
2012-02-28T01:21:12 <+Steffanx> No, i've been there for a few weeks a 'long' time ago
2012-02-28T01:21:46 < Tectu> jpa-, well, that's a good question
2012-02-28T01:21:59 < jpa-> Tectu: is it in your honour?
2012-02-28T01:22:10 <+Steffanx> Some do that here too ..
2012-02-28T01:22:20 <+Steffanx> Just to say "It's one o'clock now"
2012-02-28T01:22:31 <+Steffanx> It's "two o'clock now"
2012-02-28T01:22:41 <+Steffanx> *bong* *bong* *bong*
2012-02-28T01:22:46 <+Steffanx> And on sunday ..
2012-02-28T01:23:08 < jpa-> thankfully in finland they only play at 10 am on sundays
2012-02-28T01:23:33 < Tectu> Steffanx, in switzerland, they do it all 30 minutes ;-)
2012-02-28T01:23:53 < jpa-> indeed
2012-02-28T01:23:58 <+Steffanx> So *bong* means 1:00 … *bong* *bo* means 1:30 ?
2012-02-28T01:24:07 < jpa-> and there are a lot of churches in switzerland
2012-02-28T01:24:19 < jpa-> like 1 church per every 1km²
2012-02-28T01:24:54 <+Steffanx> Anyway, have to get up again 6,5 hours from now, so good night
2012-02-28T01:24:56 < Tectu> jpa-, jep, that's right
2012-02-28T01:25:05 < Tectu> Steffanx, no, not like that
2012-02-28T01:25:28 < Tectu> they to the hours, one *bong* per hour, and every xx:30, they just do one single *bong*
2012-02-28T01:25:34 <+Steffanx> Ah
2012-02-28T01:25:55 < jpa-> because the swiss are known for the fact that they don't have watches
2012-02-28T01:26:04 < jpa-> so the churches have to tell the time
2012-02-28T01:26:14 <+Steffanx> They only have a knife :)
2012-02-28T01:26:17 < Tectu> thaha :D
2012-02-28T01:26:25 < Tectu> a very not sharp knife
2012-02-28T01:26:38 < Tectu> with more not-knife functions than actually knife
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2012-02-28T01:43:48 < Tectu> so, good night
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2012-02-28T10:49:03 <+izua> Tectu: there's a big one
2012-02-28T10:49:12 <+izua> about 1200 pages or so
2012-02-28T10:49:38 <+izua> reference manual, heh :)
2012-02-28T10:49:40 <+izua> also, g2g
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2012-02-28T11:12:39 < dongs> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/250R14W224KV4T/709-1156-1-ND/1859488 that is cheap.
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2012-02-28T18:57:32 < ratatata> nu
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2012-02-28T19:17:27 < Tectu> morning folks
2012-02-28T19:18:05 <+Steffanx> Hi Tectu
2012-02-28T19:18:28 <+Steffanx> How's the morning in Switzerland?
2012-02-28T19:18:39 < Tectu> its 18:17 here ;-)
2012-02-28T19:18:50 <+Steffanx> I know, it's 18:18 here too
2012-02-28T19:19:05 < Tectu> ah, right
2012-02-28T19:19:17 < Tectu> well, everything fine here, how about over there?
2012-02-28T19:19:36 <+Steffanx> It's a good evening
2012-02-28T19:19:56 < Tectu> nice nice
2012-02-28T19:20:52 < Tectu> i have a question: I downloaded the stm standard libary. There are many examples. I want to test the IOtoggle example (GPIO example)
2012-02-28T19:20:59 < Tectu> i don't use an IDE
2012-02-28T19:21:07 < Tectu> how do i use my arm-none-eabi toolchain now?
2012-02-28T19:21:13 < Tectu> just  arm-none-eabi-gcc main.c ?
2012-02-28T19:21:20 < Tectu> and the rest is linking itself?
2012-02-28T19:22:45 <+Steffanx> No, i don't think so
2012-02-28T19:22:54 < ratatata> make clean
2012-02-28T19:22:59 < ratatata> make all
2012-02-28T19:23:03 <+Steffanx> I think you should get a startup script etc. from someone here .. that's easier
2012-02-28T19:23:09 <+Steffanx> incl. a makefile
2012-02-28T19:23:17 < Tectu> there is no Makefile ;-)
2012-02-28T19:23:30 < Tectu> would someone have one?
2012-02-28T19:23:38 <+Steffanx> I think so, I don't :)
2012-02-28T19:23:45 <+Steffanx> I was lazy and use eclipse :P
2012-02-28T19:23:57 < Tectu> ratatata, would you have one for meh?
2012-02-28T19:24:53 < ratatata> what board ?
2012-02-28T19:25:14 <+Steffanx> https://github.com/texane/stlink .. see the examples
2012-02-28T19:25:24 < Tectu> ratatata, stm32f100RB on the stm32 valueline discovery board
2012-02-28T19:26:22 < ratatata> you can find some examples here https://github.com/texane/stlink/tree/master/example
2012-02-28T19:26:55 < peabody124> zippe: what version of OSX are you on?  i'm trying gcc-arm-embedded-macosx and it segfaults in newlib
2012-02-28T19:26:59 < Tectu> how about the Makefile in the toplevel?
2012-02-28T19:27:29 <+Steffanx> Clone the repo and try :)
2012-02-28T19:28:22 < Tectu> awwww, have to go, girlfriend cooked :)
2012-02-28T19:28:28 < Tectu> bb and thanks for the advice, will take a look
2012-02-28T19:28:31 <+Steffanx> Good girl :P
2012-02-28T19:28:54 < ratatata> Tectu, check this link http://www.embedds.com/tutorials/
2012-02-28T19:29:03 <+Steffanx> nu
2012-02-28T19:29:09 < ratatata> nu
2012-02-28T19:29:15 <+Steffanx> (i forgot to say that)
2012-02-28T19:29:25 < Tectu> thank y ou :)
2012-02-28T19:29:30 < Tectu> bb
2012-02-28T19:29:36 < ratatata> how could you forget
2012-02-28T19:30:38 <+Steffanx> Don't know
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2012-02-28T20:29:35 < TitanMKD> hi
2012-02-28T20:30:04 <+Steffanx> LO
2012-02-28T20:46:50 < ratatata> nu
2012-02-28T20:47:01 <+Steffanx> nu
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2012-02-28T21:42:08 <+Steffanx> nu
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2012-02-28T22:11:21 < Tectu> me back
2012-02-28T22:11:24 < Tectu> gotta question
2012-02-28T22:11:39 < Tectu> to stm standard lib again
2012-02-28T22:12:01 < Tectu> stm32f10x.h:478:22: fatal error: core_cm3.h: No such file or directory
2012-02-28T22:12:23 <+Steffanx> locate core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:24 < Tectu> do i have to export the path to the Library directory too?
2012-02-28T22:12:28 < Tectu> did that
2012-02-28T22:12:42 < Tectu> [tectu@TecTop ~]$ find -name 'core_cm3.h'
2012-02-28T22:12:44 < Tectu> ./projects/arm/toolchain/arm-none-eabi/include/cmsis/core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:48 < Tectu> ./projects/arm/tools/stlink/example/stm32f4/STM32F4xx_StdPeriph_Driver/inc/core_support/core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:50 < Tectu> ./projects/arm/tools/stlink/example/libs_stm/inc/core_support/core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:52 < Tectu> ./projects/arm/stmlib/Libraries/CMSIS/CM3/CoreSupport/core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:54 < Tectu> ./projects/arm/chibios/os/ports/common/ARMCMx/CMSIS/include/core_cm3.h
2012-02-28T22:12:56 < Tectu> so i got one from the toolchain and wone from the stmlib
2012-02-28T22:13:24 < Tectu> so, which path do i have to use?
2012-02-28T22:13:32 < Tectu> and how do i use it? is it the $LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
2012-02-28T22:15:52 < Tectu> Steffanx
2012-02-28T22:16:57 < jpa-> Tectu: i always just put core_cm3.h in the same folder where i have stm32f10x.h
2012-02-28T22:17:07 < jpa-> but i use nothing else from stmlib anyway
2012-02-28T22:17:18 < Tectu> ah, okay. i am not sure how many depencies there are comming after that ;-)
2012-02-28T22:17:32 < jpa-> should be nothing else
2012-02-28T22:17:59 < Tectu> what's that cmsis anyways?
2012-02-28T22:18:09 < jpa-> oh well, system_stm32f10x.h  also but i've commented that out :)
2012-02-28T22:18:42 < jpa-> cmsis is some kind of "standard" that is supposed to make it "easy" to port applications between different cortex-based microcontrollers
2012-02-28T22:19:49 < Tectu> hmm
2012-02-28T22:20:25 < Tectu> i just search for a project template with actually works without any IDE. looks like stm provided ones only work with IDEs like KEIL, ArtollicTRUE etc
2012-02-28T22:25:30 < jpa-> that is my chibios tree, don't know if it is any use to you: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti-chibios/
2012-02-28T22:32:05 < Tectu> i'll take a look as soon as i am at home
2012-02-28T22:32:07 < Tectu> thank you :)
2012-02-28T22:32:44 < Tectu> but i guess that it may be helpfull, since it is very ripped down
2012-02-28T22:33:49 < jpa-> and that is something earlier with FreeRTOS; it is more usable as a generic template because it does not need the chibios startup code: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/
2012-02-28T22:35:04 < Tectu> why noone has barbone stmlib gpio example without any ide crap and unneeded #ifdefs
2012-02-28T22:38:29 < Tectu> aw, have to go, later
2012-02-28T22:41:00 < jpa-> my way to do GPIO: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/dsoquad/pawn/gpio.h
2012-02-28T22:41:18 < jpa-> Tectu: but there is absolutely no point using stmlib for gpio
2012-02-28T22:41:24 < jpa-> it is just writing to registers
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2012-02-28T23:16:28 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: district, jnosky, peabody124, ureif, ratatata, zyp, Thorn, jaeckel, Tom_itx, mansfeld,  (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
2012-02-28T23:16:32 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Tectu, emeb, CheBuzz, +Steffanx, Kevin`, convolution, BrainDamage
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2012-02-28T23:39:31 < Tectu> jpa-, may i distrub again?
2012-02-28T23:39:58 < Tectu> i cloned your chibios tree, did a make, was very happy that something happened
2012-02-28T23:39:59 < Tectu> but thenn
2012-02-28T23:40:28 < Tectu> it's missing paatti.pb.h
2012-02-28T23:44:04 <+Steffanx> You know what that means?
2012-02-28T23:44:14 <+Steffanx> That means it's time to get some sleep :P
2012-02-28T23:44:22 < Tectu> not sure about that
2012-02-28T23:44:30 < Tectu> that week was/is very stressful, indeed
2012-02-28T23:44:49 < Tectu> but what's *.pb.h even?
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--- Day changed Wed Feb 29 2012
2012-02-29T00:13:40 < zyp> Tectu, if you're up for some reference manual reading, you could have a look at how I'm doing everything from scratch
2012-02-29T00:14:12 < zyp> I can't say my code isn't messy at the moment, but I at least prefer my own mess to other people's mess :p
2012-02-29T00:14:33 <+Steffanx> an organized mess?
2012-02-29T00:14:51 < Tectu> zyp, sounds interesting. I'd really like to do that
2012-02-29T00:15:01 < Tectu> i also prefer my own stuff
2012-02-29T00:15:07 < Tectu> do you have some repo?
2012-02-29T00:15:08 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/ <- code is in various branches under here
2012-02-29T00:15:20 < Tectu> cgit?
2012-02-29T00:15:41 < Tectu> but you have an os too?
2012-02-29T00:15:50 < zyp> the usb branch may be the cleanest one, since I've stripped anything non-usb-related
2012-02-29T00:16:17 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T00:16:41 < Tectu> i just flashed the chibios demo for the stm32 discovery board, and nothing happens after successfull flashing
2012-02-29T00:16:44 < zyp> it contains some os-functionality, like system time, threading and concurrency support
2012-02-29T00:16:50 < Tectu> i did it via stlink and via bootloader
2012-02-29T00:16:53 < Tectu> strange, no errors at all
2012-02-29T00:17:02 < Tectu> zyp, how long did you work on it?
2012-02-29T00:17:51 < zyp> my first foray into stm32 were about a year ago
2012-02-29T00:18:13 < zyp> I was first using chibios, until I decided I rather wanted to write everything from scratch
2012-02-29T00:18:39 < zyp> have been working at it in between now and then
2012-02-29T00:18:39 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T00:18:52 < Tectu> well, how hard is it to create for example an SDcard driver?
2012-02-29T00:19:37 < zyp> sdio shouldn't be that hard to get going, and then you just need a filesystem on top of that
2012-02-29T00:19:49 < zyp> I think Steffanx have been looking at using fatfs on stm32
2012-02-29T00:20:17 < zyp> so he'll probably have a better answer than me to that
2012-02-29T00:20:33 < Tectu> well i'd really prefer to write my own stuff, but when i take a look at others suff like the stmlib or the chibios, it looks ver impossible
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2012-02-29T00:22:43 < zyp> much of my code is written as the bare minimum to get stuff going, with the tought that I can clean up the rest later on
2012-02-29T00:23:16 < zyp> unfortunately that means that you pretty much have to look up all the registers to understand what the bits I'm putting into the registers are :)
2012-02-29T00:24:16 < Tectu> thats what datasheets are for, aren't they?
2012-02-29T00:24:28 < zyp> yep :)
2012-02-29T00:25:10 < Tectu> btw, i didn't found a real datasheet like i know them from AVRs, PICs etc.
2012-02-29T00:25:16 < Tectu> isn't there an all in all document?
2012-02-29T00:26:34 < zyp> no, there are the datasheets which are the hardware related stuff like pinouts and electrical specs and stuff like that, and then you have the reference manual with the documentation for all the peripherals and their register definitions
2012-02-29T00:27:17 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-29T00:27:29 < Tectu> so i search for 'reference manual stm32f100' ?
2012-02-29T00:27:37 < zyp> and then the generic stuff for the cpu core that's not specific to stm32 are in yet another document (or you can check arm's own documentation for that)
2012-02-29T00:27:47 < zyp> I think it's RM0008 for F1
2012-02-29T00:28:01 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-29T00:28:11 < Tectu> so we got 3 documents?
2012-02-29T00:28:19 < zyp> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/resourceSelector/app?page=resourceSelector&doctype=REFERENCE_MANUAL&SubClassID=1169
2012-02-29T00:28:45 < Tectu> btw. am i the only one who hates the stm side?
2012-02-29T00:28:47 < Tectu> site*
2012-02-29T00:29:05 < zyp> I've seen worse
2012-02-29T00:29:08 < zyp> much worse
2012-02-29T00:29:30 < Tectu> it's possible to be worse than st.com?
2012-02-29T00:29:31 < zyp> so I appreciate the fact that I'm actually finding what I'm looking for at st's site and shut up :p
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2012-02-29T00:30:16 < Tectu> :D
2012-02-29T00:30:21 < zyp> oh, you should see some of st's non-public sites
2012-02-29T00:30:38 < Tectu> but you need a fiber optic connection to your ISP when you don't want to die when you click a link
2012-02-29T00:31:26 < zyp> got a slow ISP?
2012-02-29T00:31:53 < Tectu> not really
2012-02-29T00:31:59 < Tectu> 20'000 dsl
2012-02-29T00:32:12 < zyp> I don't have any problems with speed here
2012-02-29T00:33:24 < Tectu> ok
2012-02-29T00:33:37 < Tectu> so, zyp, were did you start?
2012-02-29T00:35:07 < zyp> probably by getting the gpio to blink a led
2012-02-29T00:35:27 < zyp> that's pretty much the hello world of electronics
2012-02-29T00:35:49 < Tectu> zyp, well, i got this code from gostm32.blogspot.com. is it a good and usable base?  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/558297/
2012-02-29T00:37:10 < zyp> probably
2012-02-29T00:37:21 < zyp> oh, btw
2012-02-29T00:37:42 < zyp> get gdb working, learn how to manipulate registers directly from gdb
2012-02-29T00:38:02 < zyp> I tend to test out stuff that way before writing the code to use those registers
2012-02-29T00:38:08 < zyp> to get a feel of how they are working
2012-02-29T00:38:52 < zyp> but yeah, I'd say read that code you found, refer to the reference manual to understand exactly what it does
2012-02-29T00:40:22 < Tectu> zyp, any stm32 and stlink related gdb tuts?
2012-02-29T00:40:57 < zyp> not that I know of
2012-02-29T00:41:19 < zyp> anyway, I'm heading to bed, have a good night
2012-02-29T00:42:37 < Tectu> good night
2012-02-29T00:42:39 < Tectu> and thank you
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2012-02-29T08:30:57 < jpa-> Tectu: .pb.h is a nanopb file; it's very unfortunate that my tree is some application and not a template :P
2012-02-29T08:32:12 < jpa-> Tectu: but did you try the examples that come with chibios?
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2012-02-29T09:03:23 < Tectu> goood morning :)
2012-02-29T09:05:39 < Tectu> jpa-, yes, i tried the example that comes with chibios. i could compile without any problems, but when i flash it, nothing happens (no LEDs, no SPI, no UART). I flashed via stlink AND via bootloader
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2012-02-29T09:40:33 < zyp> morning
2012-02-29T09:44:12 < Tectu> hey zyp
2012-02-29T09:46:37 < Tectu> everything okay?
2012-02-29T09:50:02 < Tectu> zyp, may you answer me a question? I show you the sourcecode blinky.c yesterday, from gostm32.blogspot.com. Well, i took a look at http://www.embedds.com/tutorials/ and there, they always use a linker script etc. how does it come, that the gostm32 example runs without? I mean in the linkerscript is all the memory defined etc
2012-02-29T09:51:04 < zyp> a linker script is always needed, the question is just whether you have a proper one by default or not
2012-02-29T09:52:10 < zyp> without a linker script, the linker would not know where your memories are located, and then it would not know where to place anything
2012-02-29T09:53:44 < zyp> I checked the gostm32-example, there is a stm32.ld in the zip file
2012-02-29T09:54:01 < zyp> that's the linker script they use
2012-02-29T09:55:02 < Tectu> aw
2012-02-29T09:55:22 < Tectu> thank you
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2012-02-29T10:08:06 < Tectu> zyp, okay, i guess i'll now just take the gostm32 example and build my own stuff
2012-02-29T10:08:24 < zyp> good luck
2012-02-29T10:10:19 < Tectu> thank you
2012-02-29T10:10:25 < Tectu> trying to hold me back? ;)
2012-02-29T10:12:00 < zyp> no, not at all, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic
2012-02-29T10:13:22 < Tectu> aah :D
2012-02-29T10:13:29 < Tectu> then don't write it that way ;-)
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2012-02-29T10:21:57 < Tectu> zyp, btw, what's the difference between flashing a .hex and a .bin?
2012-02-29T10:22:06 < Tectu> looks like both are used with no reason
2012-02-29T10:23:47 < zyp> I prefer just flashing an elf
2012-02-29T10:24:07 < Tectu> aw
2012-02-29T10:24:13 < Tectu> what's the difference/advantages?
2012-02-29T10:25:19 < zyp> elf is the native format you get out of the linker, containing all the metadata about where data should be loaded and were it's expected to run from and so on
2012-02-29T10:26:10 < zyp> ihex is a simple format just specifying what to load in the flash at what address
2012-02-29T10:26:45 < zyp> and .bin might either be an elf file or possibly just the contents of the flash, the ending doesn't signify more than that's a binary file
2012-02-29T10:27:18 < Tectu> so elf is the best choice?
2012-02-29T10:27:34 < Tectu> but what's the difference at the end? i mean at the end there is some bytecode in the flash?
2012-02-29T10:27:40 < zyp> the thing is that whatever you do, the file you produce first is an elf, and then you may extract data from that to make a hex later
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2012-02-29T10:28:10 < zyp> but if your tools can take the elf directly, there is no point in having the extra step making a hex
2012-02-29T10:28:27 < zyp> my tools do, so I skip that
2012-02-29T10:29:22 < zyp> as long as your purpose is just to program the flash, there is no practical difference
2012-02-29T10:29:57 < zyp> but the elf also contains debug information and other metadata, so if you're loading it into gdb, you want the elf
2012-02-29T10:30:32 < Tectu> aah
2012-02-29T10:30:35 < Tectu> okay :)
2012-02-29T10:30:36 < Tectu> thank you
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2012-02-29T10:31:27 < zyp> the only advantage of ihex is that the format is way simpler than elf to parse, so tools are easier to create, but you shouldn't care about that unless you are writing tools yourself
2012-02-29T10:31:50 < zyp> and most modern tools support elf directly
2012-02-29T10:32:22 < Tectu> makes sense
2012-02-29T10:41:42 < Tectu> zyp, made a small makefile, what do you think of this?  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/558462/
2012-02-29T10:44:33 < zyp> ld -v?
2012-02-29T10:45:55 < Tectu> arm-none-eabi-ld:stm32.ld:3: warning: redeclaration of memory region `ram'
2012-02-29T10:45:55 < Tectu> arm-none-eabi-ld:stm32.ld:4: warning: redeclaration of memory region `rom'
2012-02-29T10:46:05 < zyp> I don't really see a point of copying the .elf file to .bin
2012-02-29T10:46:14 < zyp> that probably only serves to confuse people
2012-02-29T10:46:37 < Tectu> well, i just tried to create a makefile which i can use in EVERY project
2012-02-29T10:47:47 < Tectu> but okay, beside that part
2012-02-29T10:47:52 < Tectu> any suggestions?
2012-02-29T10:48:38 < zyp> well, generation of the .lst file also seems kind of pointless
2012-02-29T10:49:22 < zyp> oh, and you can't include the linker script on the command just like that, I think
2012-02-29T10:49:55 < zyp> I think you have to have -Tstm32.ld
2012-02-29T10:50:16 < zyp> ah, right, you have that
2012-02-29T10:50:26 < Tectu> confused now
2012-02-29T10:50:30 < Tectu> everything okay that way?
2012-02-29T10:50:32 < zyp> but, wouldn't it also be included in $^
2012-02-29T10:50:36 < zyp> ?
2012-02-29T10:51:04 < Tectu> how
2012-02-29T10:51:08 < Tectu> owowowow
2012-02-29T10:51:10 < Tectu> you may be right
2012-02-29T10:51:17 < Tectu> let's ask people on ##workingset
2012-02-29T10:51:37 < zyp> personally I don't really like make, I think that now that we're in 2012 we can use more modern tools
2012-02-29T10:51:49 < zyp> I prefer scons myself: http://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/SConstruct
2012-02-29T10:52:00 < Tectu> never heard about that
2012-02-29T10:52:34 < Tectu> what is it, a better make?
2012-02-29T10:53:06 < zyp> it's python based, so the syntax is simple, it's easy to script, dependency tracking is way better than make and the tedious parts are done for you
2012-02-29T10:53:07 < Tectu> LINK = 'arm-none-eabi-gcc',      might that be   -ld?
2012-02-29T10:53:22 < zyp> yes, I'm using gcc as an ld wrapper
2012-02-29T10:53:34 < Tectu> aw
2012-02-29T10:53:35 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T10:53:55 < Tectu> okay, to my Makefile, how can i fix the ld part to be SURE that stm32.ld will not be included?
2012-02-29T10:54:06 < Tectu> just LD = arm-none-eabi-ld -Tstm32.ld  ?
2012-02-29T10:54:29 < zyp> no, you already have -Tstm32.ld in LDFLAGS so that part is fine
2012-02-29T10:54:39 < zyp> sorry, LFLAGS
2012-02-29T10:54:58 < Tectu> yeah, right
2012-02-29T10:55:04 < Tectu> but the   stm32.ld in the linker line
2012-02-29T10:55:23 < Tectu> so i just delete that one
2012-02-29T10:55:27 < zyp> the issue is the dependency tracking so a change of the linker script does trigger a new linking
2012-02-29T10:55:29 < Tectu> and only keep it in LFLAGS?
2012-02-29T10:56:17 < zyp> you can see that in my SConscript I add an extra dependency with Depends() to fix that
2012-02-29T10:56:43 < Tectu> yeah, but just do do now a little bit stm32 and not again toolchain stuff, how to fix my makefile works properly?
2012-02-29T10:56:45 < zyp> it's probably a way to do the same in make, but I don't know
2012-02-29T10:57:16 < zyp> well, don't ask me, this kind of stuff is one of the reasons I don't use make :p
2012-02-29T10:57:28 < Tectu> okay :D
2012-02-29T10:57:45 < Tectu> so i'll take a look to scons
2012-02-29T10:59:08 < Tectu> btw, what's .lst anyways?
2012-02-29T10:59:15 < Tectu> just saw that it's used often
2012-02-29T10:59:17 < Tectu> in makefile
2012-02-29T10:59:18 < Tectu> s
2012-02-29T11:00:30 < zyp> assembly listing
2012-02-29T11:01:31 < zyp> I prefer just running objdump directly when I want to look at some disassembly, disassembling the entire file every time you build it is kind of pointless
2012-02-29T11:16:53 < Tectu> ah, i see
2012-02-29T11:26:54 < Tectu> zyp, when you started doing your own library, did you put that somewhere global on your ~ or wherever and link it then every time?
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2012-02-29T12:32:38 < zyp> Tectu, no, it's still part of the source
2012-02-29T12:32:47 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T12:32:54 < Tectu> i got my setup now
2012-02-29T12:33:04 < Tectu> can begin to hack that shit whenever i have time
2012-02-29T12:34:16 < Tectu> thanks for your help until here ;)
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2012-02-29T12:45:39 < electronics-cat> hi i am stm newby
2012-02-29T12:47:57 < Tectu> hello.
2012-02-29T12:48:24 < Tectu> if you have questions, ask. But please try to figure out yourself first
2012-02-29T12:53:19 < jpa-> :D
2012-02-29T12:53:27 < Tectu> morning jpa :)
2012-02-29T12:53:36 < Tectu> why such a smile?
2012-02-29T12:53:41 < jpa-> morning Tectu :)
2012-02-29T12:53:49 < jpa-> you're already an expert on the channel :P
2012-02-29T12:54:47 < Tectu> wtf? sorry when i did something wrong. i didn't try to put myself higher than i am. it's just a general irc rule.
2012-02-29T12:54:53 < Tectu> i'm sorry if you feel attacked or whatever now
2012-02-29T12:55:01 < jpa-> no no, just funny :)
2012-02-29T12:55:26 < jpa-> it's not like electronics-cat is an IRC newbie anyway, he's been hanging around on ##electronics for quite some time :)
2012-02-29T12:55:49 < Tectu> aah
2012-02-29T12:55:50 < Tectu> then sorry
2012-02-29T12:56:03 < Tectu> i also didn't try to be mean or something, electronics-cat
2012-02-29T12:56:42 < electronics-cat> :)
2012-02-29T12:59:46 < Tectu> so, i'm gonna have some lunch now
2012-02-29T12:59:58 < Tectu> see you later, guys
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2012-02-29T13:29:08 < Tectu> jpa-, do you still have the blinky source code from gostm32 arround or shall i repaste? i have a question to the vectorthingy
2012-02-29T14:06:08 < zyp> what about the vectors?
2012-02-29T14:07:34 < Tectu> well, this one:  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/558541/
2012-02-29T14:07:43 < Tectu> line 14 to 20
2012-02-29T14:07:59 < Tectu> eeeh well, i don't know how to as
2012-02-29T14:08:01 < Tectu> ask*
2012-02-29T14:08:05 < Tectu> but "how are they used"?
2012-02-29T14:08:07 < zyp> yes, that's the vector table
2012-02-29T14:08:29 < Tectu> so i guess the interrupt vectors etc are listed there too?
2012-02-29T14:08:42 < zyp> exactly
2012-02-29T14:09:10 < zyp> the first entry is special, because it's the stack loaded at reset, and the next is the reset vector
2012-02-29T14:09:16 < zyp> the rest are fault and interrupt handlers
2012-02-29T14:09:19 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T14:09:29 < Tectu> and i guess it's the compiler attribute which tells the stm32 how to use them?
2012-02-29T14:09:43 < zyp> no
2012-02-29T14:10:02 < Tectu> ah, the addresses are defined in the stm32f10x.h headerfile?
2012-02-29T14:10:06 < zyp> no
2012-02-29T14:10:31 < zyp> the interrupt table are by default loaded from the start of the flash, and if you check your linker script you'll see that the vectors section are indeed loaded first
2012-02-29T14:11:00 < zyp> that's why the table is put in a special section
2012-02-29T14:11:17 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-29T14:11:34 < zyp> the only thing the section attribute do is allowing you to distinguish it in the linker script
2012-02-29T14:12:06 < Tectu> aaaah
2012-02-29T14:12:32 < Tectu> so in the linkerscript is defined at wich address the array is getting stored
2012-02-29T14:12:59 < zyp> yes
2012-02-29T14:13:28 < zyp> the entire purpose of the linker script is to define where in memory everything will be placed
2012-02-29T14:13:45 < Tectu> and therefore its not important in which order you write the vectors into the array, i guess?
2012-02-29T14:14:00 < zyp> wrong, it's very important
2012-02-29T14:14:08 < Tectu> priority ordered?
2012-02-29T14:14:57 < zyp> every entry in the vector table refers to a specific interrupt
2012-02-29T14:16:16 < zyp> remember that the table is just a list of addresses
2012-02-29T14:17:18 < zyp> so when say, interrupt 20 occurs, the cpu will extract the entry with index 20 from the table and call that address
2012-02-29T14:19:00 < Tectu> so hard_handler always has to be at index 3?
2012-02-29T14:19:20 < zyp> yes, exactly
2012-02-29T14:19:22 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-29T14:19:25 < Tectu> thank you
2012-02-29T14:19:27 < Tectu> now i understand :)
2012-02-29T14:19:37 < zyp> you'll find the full table in the reference manual
2012-02-29T14:19:53 < Tectu> i am allready searching for it
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2012-02-29T14:21:47 < zyp> page 196
2012-02-29T14:22:19 < Tectu> found, thank you
2012-02-29T14:22:57 < zyp> note that the first 16 entries are considered special (cpu internal), so that's why WWDG is listed as position 0
2012-02-29T14:23:04 < Tectu> so let's say i want to handle the global interrupt from UART1. then i need to put the vector to my handler function into index 37 ?
2012-02-29T14:23:16 < zyp> you have to add 16 to that number to get the real index
2012-02-29T14:23:27 < zyp> so USART1 would be 43
2012-02-29T14:23:36 < zyp> 53
2012-02-29T14:24:25 < Tectu> and every time the UART1 shots and interrupt, as fair as everything is enable, arm jumps to the function which is refered in index 43?
2012-02-29T14:25:46 < Tectu> is that right, zyp?
2012-02-29T14:25:59 < zyp> 53, 37 + 16 = 53
2012-02-29T14:26:05 < zyp> and yes, that is right
2012-02-29T14:26:33 < Tectu> nice
2012-02-29T14:26:48 < Tectu> okay, can i ask something, maybe stupid, C related thing?
2012-02-29T14:27:24 < Tectu> how do i put the vector on index 53 without filling all the 49 other entries with 0?
2012-02-29T14:30:19 < jpa-> Tectu: like i've done at the bottom here: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/interrupt_vectors.c
2012-02-29T14:30:44 < jpa-> it's a gcc-specific syntax
2012-02-29T14:31:22 < Tectu> aah, good to know
2012-02-29T14:31:30 < Tectu> btw, jpa- did you read my message aboutthe paatti.pb.h?
2012-02-29T14:32:17 < jpa-> yeah it's some crap for my application.. i don't even expect that tree to do anything useful for you :)
2012-02-29T14:32:37 < Tectu> what the hell does *.pb.h even have for a meaning?
2012-02-29T14:32:51 < jpa-> google protocol buffers generated header
2012-02-29T14:33:07 < Tectu> kay
2012-02-29T14:33:41 < jpa-> it's for rpc implementation.. so that i can easily give commands to my stm32 over gprs
2012-02-29T14:33:52 < Tectu> aye
2012-02-29T14:40:39 < Tectu> hmm, but table 50 in the reference manual on manual page 130 says, that the first 7 entries don't have a position, and position 8 is entry 0. so shoudln't we use for USART1 (position 37) the entery 37+16+7?
2012-02-29T14:43:19 < Tectu> what am i missing?
2012-02-29T14:43:49 < zyp> no
2012-02-29T14:44:06 < zyp> don't confuse priority with position
2012-02-29T14:44:16 < zyp> (ignore priority completely, it's irrelevant)
2012-02-29T14:44:47 < Tectu> so just go with 37+16?
2012-02-29T14:44:57 < zyp> there are 16 cpu-internal entries first, and WWDG is the first external entry
2012-02-29T14:45:03 < Tectu> ah
2012-02-29T14:45:10 < zyp> so WWDG would have index 16
2012-02-29T14:45:14 < Tectu> the cpu-internal are not listed in that table
2012-02-29T14:45:28 < zyp> they are, in a somewhat confusing manner
2012-02-29T14:45:52 < Tectu> so it would be vectors[16+38] and USART1 entry would have index [16+37] ?
2012-02-29T14:46:04 < zyp> right
2012-02-29T14:46:19 < zyp> you can see it in the last column
2012-02-29T14:47:07 < zyp> USART1 is address 0xd4, that's 212
2012-02-29T14:47:11 < Tectu> so, in the gostm32 example, array size is 4, not 16+4, this means, that the 4 vectors listed are cpu internal, of course.
2012-02-29T14:47:19 < zyp> and every entry are 4 bytes: 212 / 4 = 53
2012-02-29T14:47:31 < zyp> yes
2012-02-29T14:48:04 < zyp> the first is the one listed as reserved in the table, that's the stack vector, then reset, NMI and hardfault
2012-02-29T14:48:13 < zyp> that's the four you currently have
2012-02-29T14:48:40 < Tectu> aah
2012-02-29T14:48:54 < Tectu> is it possible to pass an argument to the handler routine?
2012-02-29T14:49:00 < Tectu> through the vector table?
2012-02-29T14:49:01 < zyp> then you have memmanage, busfault, usagefault, another four reserved, svcall, debugmon, reserved, pendsv, systick
2012-02-29T14:49:08 < zyp> and that should add up to 16
2012-02-29T14:49:11 < zyp> no.
2012-02-29T14:49:30 < Tectu> okay
2012-02-29T14:49:54 < Tectu> thank you, looks now understandable for me
2012-02-29T14:50:13 < Tectu> why do they go from -4 to 6 ?
2012-02-29T14:58:12 < zyp> just to confuse you
2012-02-29T14:58:23 < Tectu> >.<
2012-02-29T14:58:31 < jpa-> indeed :)
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2012-02-29T15:54:29 < Tectu> guys, the stm32f10x.h headerfile contains the struct ADC_TypeDef. all the entries are vu32 and they are named as the ADC realted registers
2012-02-29T15:54:45 < Tectu> let's say i want to set ADON in ADC_CR2
2012-02-29T15:55:09 < Tectu> do i use that struct then or not?
2012-02-29T15:55:22 < Tectu> not sure because all the GPIOs are defined in the same file
2012-02-29T15:56:34 < Tectu> sorry, wrote confusing things... what i mean is, i just go with    ADC1->CR2 |= 0x01;  to enable ADON, right?
2012-02-29T16:06:27 < jpa-> yeah, ADC1->CR2 |= 0x01; or if you prefer ADC1->CR2 |= ADC_CR2_ADON;
2012-02-29T16:18:51 < Tectu> jpa-, ADC_CR2_ADON etc. are not defined inside that file
2012-02-29T16:20:47 < jpa-> ok your file sucks then :)
2012-02-29T16:20:55 < jpa-> *my* file has them :)
2012-02-29T16:21:07 < jpa-> (yes, there are various versions of stm32f10x.h floating around)
2012-02-29T16:23:08 < Tectu> may you give me that? :)
2012-02-29T16:23:59 < jpa-> https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/stm32f10x.h
2012-02-29T16:24:23 < Tectu> thanks, sir
2012-02-29T16:25:05 < jpa-> chibios also comes with a decent version https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti-chibios/chibios/os/hal/platforms/STM32/stm32f10x.h
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2012-02-29T16:26:08 < jpa-> in fact, the chibios one is better
2012-02-29T16:26:20 < jpa-> it has the FSMC definitions the other file is missing
2012-02-29T16:27:58 < Tectu> i really begin to see the real adventage of doing your own thing
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2012-02-29T17:39:07 < Tectu> nice, USART1 is working :3
2012-02-29T17:39:52 < zyp> :)
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2012-02-29T17:49:48 < Tectu> how do i make a good delay function, which works with miliseconds?
2012-02-29T17:50:03 < Tectu> something like  delay_ms(uint32_t ms);
2012-02-29T18:10:35 < zyp> by using the system timer
2012-02-29T18:11:08 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/os/time.h <- this is how I'm doing it
2012-02-29T18:12:43 < jpa-> (and if you happen to use some OS, they provide a delay function built-in)
2012-02-29T18:13:10 < zyp> that was the delay-function of my «OS»
2012-02-29T18:13:18 < jpa-> yeah :)
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2012-02-29T18:47:56 < Tectu> guys?
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2012-02-29T19:09:16 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
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2012-02-29T19:09:27 <+Steffanx> nu
2012-02-29T19:11:45 < Tectu> morning Steffanx
2012-02-29T19:11:55 <+Steffanx> Evening Tectu
2012-02-29T19:11:59 < Tectu> ;-)
2012-02-29T19:12:34 < Tectu> Steffanx, how can i write a delay function, which makes a really precise delay?  something like  delay_ms(uint32_t delay);
2012-02-29T19:14:46 <+Steffanx> timer? :)
2012-02-29T19:15:22 < Tectu> na, some compiler side thing
2012-02-29T19:15:38 < Tectu> like on gcc-avr there is   _delay_ms() and _delay_us()
2012-02-29T19:22:25 < zyp> Tectu, that's not a really precise delay
2012-02-29T19:22:28 < zyp> use a timer.
2012-02-29T19:23:16 <+Steffanx> How really precise is really precise Tom_itx /
2012-02-29T19:23:32 < Tectu> okay, how do i create something similar precise to the _delay_ms()
2012-02-29T19:26:54 < zyp> with the systick timer.
2012-02-29T19:27:17 <+Steffanx> Then you can still be a little .. not precies
2012-02-29T19:27:19 <+Steffanx> se
2012-02-29T19:28:45 < Tectu> well, some bare, understandable example to that?
2012-02-29T19:28:48 < zyp> there is no point in doing nop-delay-loops when you have a timer made for the purpose
2012-02-29T19:30:19 < Tectu> grml
2012-02-29T19:30:22 < zyp> Tectu, http://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/time.h?id=9e5875f2908c1ce506e7c5712ccabc379f911360
2012-02-29T19:31:25 < zyp> init() configures the timer to give an interrupt every ms, which will increment systime
2012-02-29T19:32:05 < zyp> then there is just a matter of checking the value of systime when you call sleep() and wait until it has incremented the required number of steps
2012-02-29T19:33:10 < zyp> if you need better precision than milliseconds you could use the same method directly on the counter register of the timer, then you'll get sub-microsecond precision
2012-02-29T19:34:25 <+Steffanx> At least your code fails around int32_max zyp :)
2012-02-29T19:39:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: why should it?
2012-02-29T19:39:20 < jpa-> ah, it does :)
2012-02-29T19:39:43 < jpa-> it's a delicate thing to get uint32_t overflow to work propely there :)
2012-02-29T19:40:10 < jpa-> systime - start < ms  works, systime < start + ms  does not :)
2012-02-29T19:42:55 < zyp> true, but you only have to calculate start+ms once
2012-02-29T19:43:36 < jpa-> yeah, but what good is that when it fails after 1 month :)
2012-02-29T19:43:37 < zyp> and the overflow is after 49 days, my project is unlikely to have an uptime that long :)
2012-02-29T19:44:01 < jpa-> my projects are quite likely to have uptime at that scale.. heck, even my laptop has that much :)
2012-02-29T19:44:34 < jpa-> but honestly, saving time in a delay loop is not very important :D
2012-02-29T19:45:34 < zyp> well, my code yields to another thread while waiting, so the time can still be used for something useful ;)
2012-02-29T19:46:47 < jpa-> true
2012-02-29T19:47:07 < jpa-> if it were a proper OS, it wouldn't yield to that waiting thread at all ,)
2012-02-29T19:47:11 < zyp> when I get around to writing a proper scheduler, I'll have that track sleeping threads and scheduling wakeups at the proper time
2012-02-29T19:47:20 < zyp> exactly
2012-02-29T19:47:32 < jpa-> will it be called zypos?
2012-02-29T19:47:40 < zyp> but I don't have a proper scheduler yet, I'm just doing round robin of all threads :p
2012-02-29T19:47:42 <+Steffanx> jpaos
2012-02-29T19:48:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'm not writing an os :)
2012-02-29T19:48:28 < zyp> this is my entire scheduler:
2012-02-29T19:48:29 < zyp> Thread::active_thread = Thread::active_thread->next;
2012-02-29T19:48:33 < jpa-> i'm writing crap
2012-02-29T19:48:38 <+Steffanx> crapos
2012-02-29T19:48:42 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, elegant in simplicity if not in function :)
2012-02-29T19:49:29 < zyp> I'm not writing an os to make an os, I'm just making features I need as I go :D
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2012-02-29T20:55:05 < wattrod> anyone here familiar with the texane stlink project? trying to use the summon toolchain with a stlink v1 and/or a v2
2012-02-29T20:56:29 <+Steffanx> I think that's the tool 99% of the users here use
2012-02-29T20:57:57 < wattrod> i'm totally green with it, just downloaded it yesterday and I'm noticing that between the utility itself, the readme, and the pdf doc, there are three different versions of how to use it
2012-02-29T20:58:16 < wattrod> glad to hear that it's popular though
2012-02-29T20:59:24 < jpa-> yeah, it's not quite a finished project
2012-02-29T20:59:32 < jpa-> works fine for me though, but i'm using the karlp branch
2012-02-29T21:00:52 < wattrod> mainly I just hope it works through gdb ... tried using the flash utility to read data off of the chip, which seems to work only if you give it a size
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2012-02-29T21:27:51 < zyp> I've only used it through gdb, works nicely
2012-02-29T21:27:57 < zyp> even flashing that way
2012-02-29T21:29:34 < Laurenceb_> same here
2012-02-29T21:31:27 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: you don't even know what we are talking about! ,)
2012-02-29T21:35:20 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ knows it all
2012-02-29T21:57:25 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ you're going to loose
2012-02-29T21:57:43 <+Steffanx> (yes, it's soccer related)
2012-02-29T22:22:57 < Tectu> aah guys... to set the 2th bit, i can do   RCC->CR |= 0x02
2012-02-29T22:23:21 <+Steffanx> You can do that
2012-02-29T22:24:16 < Tectu> so, let's say i want to set the HSEON bit... i just go with   RCC->CR |= 0x10 ?
2012-02-29T22:24:36 <+Steffanx> if it's the fifth bit ..
2012-02-29T22:25:01 <+Steffanx> I prefer to use the bitnames though, not sure if they are define somewhere
2012-02-29T22:25:16 < Tectu> Steffanx, not in my file, i am going to define them ;-)
2012-02-29T22:25:23 < Tectu> and no, it's the 16th bit
2012-02-29T22:25:25 < Tectu> so 0x11
2012-02-29T22:26:03 <+Steffanx> Noo, that's not right
2012-02-29T22:26:47 <+Steffanx> 0000 1000 <= 0x10
2012-02-29T22:28:50 < Tectu> o0   HSEON is in RCC->CR bit with index 16, means the 17th bit, right?
2012-02-29T22:28:50 <+Steffanx> To set for example bit 16 (note: not the 16th bit as it start's with bit 0) you can use something like (1 << 16)
2012-02-29T22:29:08 <+Steffanx> So a 1 shifted to the left an x times
2012-02-29T22:29:31 < Tectu> right
2012-02-29T22:30:30 <+Steffanx> And yes, you are right
2012-02-29T22:30:45 < Tectu> thank you
2012-02-29T22:30:56 < Tectu> so, reading the reference manual about HSE
2012-02-29T22:30:58 <+Steffanx> It's more clear(imho) to talk about bit 0, bit 1, bit 16 etc. :)
2012-02-29T22:31:05 <+Steffanx> or just the bitname
2012-02-29T22:31:08 < Tectu> i don't have to do anything beside setting the HSEON bit?
2012-02-29T22:31:40 <+Steffanx> Just look at some examples ..
2012-02-29T22:32:05 <+Steffanx> (that means, i don't know :P )
2012-02-29T22:32:10 < Tectu> when not all of them would use some strange libraries ;-)
2012-02-29T22:32:27 <+Steffanx> libopencm3 is pretty clear
2012-02-29T22:32:32 <+Steffanx> i think
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2012-02-29T22:36:17 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3S-KyOtH4
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2012-02-29T22:49:20 < jpa-> Tectu: there is somewhat reasonable RCC config here: https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/paatti/main.c
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 01 00:00:48 2012